# How many people can land feed?



## Eyeball

It's an important question i've been asking in survival forums for years but everybody seems to have a different opinion..

Suppose in a SHTF situation our survival group sets up in this deserted farmhouse below, what's the maximum number of people we should allow in the group to keep ourselves comfortably fed all year round? 10? 20? 30? More? Less? 
What do PF members think?


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## smokeyquartz

This is complicated. I guess the question is how long do you anticipate your situation will last and remain with the same number? Is this a post-apocalypse situation where there is no more access to birth control and the population on your farm is going to increase? Even if you decide on a number, that number may naturally increase over time. 

Humans have had this dilemma since forever; I think you would eventually be forced to trade with neighboring groups or ask for some of their resources. I could see disputes over territory/resources arising if the situation continued for a very long time.


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## Redneck

Impossible to say with what little info you provide. I've seen figures from 1/4 acre per person to 5 acres per person. Some folks, can get by on less than even that 1/4 acre. Just too many factors that come into play. Does your location get plenty of rainfall? What happens during a drought? Do you have drip irrigation? Will your well run off of solar if the grid is down? How good is your soil? Are all beds ready to plant? Do you have enough seed to grow all this food? Is your seed open pollinated? You have fertilizer stored? You have vast quantities of pesticides & herbicides? How long is your growing season? You have a variety of seed to grow 3 crops in the same year... cool weather varieties for spring & fall & warm weather varieties for summer. You have a tractor with proper implements? Plenty of fuel in storage? Are your orchards already mature & producing? You have farm animals as they needs lots of acreage for grass/hay? You have plenty of proper hand tools in case everything has to be done by hand... and not the cheap crap you get at a hardware store? Have you already grown every variety you plan on growing? Are they the best varieties for that area & your micro climate?

In your drawing, there are not enough fruit trees. I have over 150. By themselves, my orchard is around 2 acres and that doesn't include my blackberries, blueberries, muscadine grapes & nut trees.

I could go on & on. That is why you will never get an accurate answer. Too many variables


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## paulag1955

If I had more than my family unit on a five acre holding, I wouldn't even try to grow grain; it's not a dietary necessity and the yield per acre isn't...great. I'd grow potatoes and sweet potatoes if the climate allowed, beans and corn. Lots of squashes. So, as ******* says, there are so many variables that's it's impossible to say. They only way you'd even have a chance to guess would be to live on the land prior to the sh*t hitting the fan.


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## SOCOM42

The most productive products food wise to grow are what @paulag1955 said potatoes and beans.

The Irish lived off of potatoes and little else for centuries, ran into a major problem with potato blight,

thousands starved, a lot of them migrated here.

Those two products will keep you alive for a long time.

Corn takes up a lot of space and a lot of work to process it, must be shucked and dried properly, lot of work.

One set of grandparents had a farm, they grew about an acre of corn, potatoes and onions each, a few bushels of carrots.

Corn was dried and barreled, potatoes and onions had their own root cellar for each.

Main product was chicken eggs, 3,000 layers, we ate plenty of chicken, non productive birds.


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## Back Pack Hack

I live in a 820 ft² studio apartment.... what can I grow in a window box? :tango_face_wink:


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## paulag1955

SOCOM42 said:


> The most productive products food wise to grow are what @paulag1955 said potatoes and beans.
> 
> The Irish lived off of potatoes and little else for centuries, ran into a major problem with potato blight,
> 
> thousands starved, a lot of them migrated here.
> 
> Those two products will keep you alive for a long time.
> 
> Corn takes up a lot of space and a lot of work to process it, must be shucked and dried properly, lot of work.
> 
> One set of grandparents had a farm, they grew about an acre of corn, potatoes and onions each, a few bushels of carrots.
> 
> Corn was dried and barreled, potatoes and onions had their own root cellar for each.
> 
> Main product was chicken eggs, 3,000 layers, we ate plenty of chicken, non productive birds.


The reason I included corn was because when combined with beans, you get a complete protein. When I said I wouldn't grow grains, I was thinking of the ones included in the illustration...wheat, barley and a third grain that seems to be unlabeled, but I'm assuming is oats. Corn, unlike those other grain crops, can share its space with beans and squash.


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## Redneck

The problem with potatoes, is that it is hard to store enough seed potatoes to really make a difference. I mean, you can't store seed potatoes for years, as you can say corn, bean & squash. Most folk I know, including me, always purchase certified disease free seed potatoes prior to planting. How many people are going to have enough seed potatoes on hand to be able to feed a group? Most people have few or none in storage. So the way I see it, it might be years before someone has enough seed potatoes to really make a difference.

IMO, the three sisters (field corn, pole beans & winter squash) make the best survival food. One can store lots of seed cheaply & they can remain in storage for multiple years. Those three provide almost complete nutrition and they all can be stored over the winter easily. The corn & beans will dry in the field and once harvested will easily store thru the winter months. The hard rinds on the winter squash likewise allow them to be stored at outside temperature thru the winter. As the native Americans knew, the three make a perfect companion planting. The corn provides the trellis for the pole beans to climb on. The beans, being legumes, provide nitrogen back into the soil... something corn really needs. The squash, provides a ground cover to keep soil moisture in & weeds out.

Yes, I have lots of other seed but the three sisters are my foundation... especially as a warm weather crop. My other go to warm weather crop is amaranth, which by itself could easily be the single best survival crop as you can eat the whole plant at some point. The leaves are super nutritious and the young ones can be eaten raw and the older leaves can be cooked like collards. The seed can be ground into a flour or cooked as a breakfast porridge. The seeds are tiny and a single pound of them can contain well over a half million seeds. Then I always store kale & collards as my cool weather crops so that I can extend my growing season.

I have hundreds of pounds of seed stored in my always cool storage closet and they are sealed inside mylar bags which are inside 6 gallon sealed plastic buckets. Since garden seed can only last for 2-5 years, each year I add new seed into storage.


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## Redneck

Back Pack Hack said:


> I live in a 820 ft² studio apartment.... what can I grow in a window box? :tango_face_wink:


Pot


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## SOCOM42

******* said:


> The problem with potatoes, is that it is hard to store enough seed potatoes to really make a difference. I mean, you can't store seed potatoes for years, as you can say corn, bean & squash. Most folk I know, including me, always purchase certified disease free seed potatoes prior to planting. How many people are going to have enough seed potatoes on hand to be able to feed a group? Most people have few or none in storage. So the way I see it, it might be years before someone has enough seed potatoes to really make a difference.
> 
> IMO, the three sisters (field corn, pole beans & winter squash) make the best survival food. One can store lots of seed cheaply & they can remain in storage for multiple years. Those three provide almost complete nutrition and they all can be stored over the winter easily. The corn & beans will dry in the field and once harvested will easily store thru the winter months. The hard rinds on the winter squash likewise allow them to be stored at outside temperature thru the winter. As the native Americans knew, the three make a perfect companion planting. The corn provides the trellis for the pole beans to climb on. The beans, being legumes, provide nitrogen back into the soil... something corn really needs. The squash, provides a ground cover to keep soil moisture in & weeds out.
> 
> Yes, I have lots of other seed but the three sisters are my foundation... especially as a warm weather crop. My other go to warm weather crop is amaranth, which by itself could easily be the single best survival crop as you can eat the whole plant at some point. The leaves are super nutritious and the young ones can be eaten raw and the older leaves can be cooked like collards. The seed can be ground into a flour or cooked as a breakfast porridge. The seeds are tiny and a single pound of them can contain well over a half million seeds. Then I always store kale & collards as my cool weather crops so that I can extend my growing season.
> 
> I have hundreds of pounds of seed stored in my always cool storage closet and they are sealed inside mylar bags which are inside 6 gallon sealed plastic buckets. Since garden seed can only last for 2-5 years, each year I add new seed into storage.


you are fortunate to have a long growing season, up here in the NE not so long.

I can grow dent corn and beans here if needed, hard to get heirloom seeds here, most are GMO.

I am not a farmer or pretend to be, I have 50 pounds of dent seed corn which I replace every year, just store not grow.


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## Redneck

paulag1955 said:


> The reason I included corn was because when combined with beans, you get a complete protein. When I said I wouldn't grow grains, I was thinking of the ones included in the illustration...wheat, barley and a third grain that seems to be unlabeled, but I'm assuming is oats. Corn, unlike those other grain crops, can share its space with beans and squash.


I agree. I grow field corn and during a crisis, that will be ground into flour. Cornmeal is what our southern ancestors used for bread, as opposed to wheat.

I have learned thru trial and error that the three sisters can't really be grown as normal row crops... even with extra space between rows. Not enough sunlight can get in for the beans & squash. Using lots of small round plots, like the native Americans did works best. This is especially necessary & needed if you are putting these beds in by hand, as the native Americans did. I keep big rolls of plastic mesh so as to grow mass quantities of pole beans using the row method. I can get huge harvests of beans this way. The last few weeks we have been harvesting my rattlesnake pole beans that I left to dry on the vines. I didn't leave a huge amount so most will be seed for next year. Some will be cooked in a soup this winter.


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## Redneck

SOCOM42 said:


> you are fortunate to have a long growing season, up here in the NE not so long.
> 
> I can grow dent corn and beans here if needed, hard to get heirloom seeds here, most are GMO.
> 
> I am not a farmer or pretend to be, I have 50 pounds of dent seed corn which I replace every year, just store not grow.


Yes, one advantage of living in the deep south. I harvest food 9 months out of the year. By planting Siberian kale and Austrian winter peas, I actually can harvest all 12 months. The winter peas stay green all winter & the leaves are absolutely delicious raw. The Siberian kale can grow all thru the winter here. I prefer Tuscan kale, so that is what I mainly grow. Right now I'm harvesting my Tuscan kale & collards. I'll be picking a big batch of both tomorrow.

I'd suggest you add pole beans & winter squash to your corn seed. Trying to remember but I think the last bucket I put into storage had 25 lbs of field corn, 10 lbs of pole beans, 5 lbs of winter squash & a few lbs of collard seed. That one bucket can provide a lot of food & nutrition. I keep at least a lb of amaranth seed in the freezer as it only stores otherwise for 2 years. Next year when I harvest the amaranth, I'm gonna cut off the seed heads of several plants & put them in a pail. Just a few plants will provide several million seeds. Then each year, I'll replace with new seed heads.


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## Mad Trapper

I don't think even one. On 5 acres.


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## Redneck

Mad Trapper said:


> I don't think even one. On 5 acres.


I've never tried, but I'm guessing that I would need anywhere from 1/2 acre to 1 acre per person. That doesn't count the acreage used for orchards or grazing/hay. With my longer growing season, I'm thinking that would be about right. But as time went on, and my fertilizer & chemical supplies ran out, my yields would drop greatly & I could see where it could take twice the amount of land... if not more.


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## paulag1955

GMO seeds are not available to home gardeners. If you're buying seed from a box store or online from a company marketing to home gardeners, you're not buying GMO seed. Hybrid seed, yes, possibly, but not GMO. If you want heirloom or open-pollinated rather than hybrid varieties, there are probably dozens of online retailers to choose from. No need to rely on local vendors if they don't stock the seed you want.

Botanical Interests
Seed Saver's Exchange
Johnny's Selected Seeds
High Mowing Seed Company
Territorial Seed Company
Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds
Southern Exposure Seed Exchange
Renee's Garden
Seeds of Change

This is just a list of the companies I could come up with off the top of my head in a couple of minutes. Not all of them are selling 100% heirloom varieties, but at least each variety will be identified as open-pollinated, heirloom or hybrid. It's best to choose a seed company located in an area with a climate similar to where you garden. When I was gardening in western Washington, I liked Territorial Seed Company because their test gardens are in western Oregon.


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## Mad Trapper

******* said:


> I've never tried, but I'm guessing that I would need anywhere from 1/2 acre to 1 acre per person. That doesn't count the acreage used for orchards or grazing/hay. With my longer growing season, I'm thinking that would be about right. But as time went on, and my fertilizer & chemical supplies ran out, my yields would drop greatly & I could see where it could take twice the amount of land... if not more.


1/2 acre, 1 person, 1 year?

What you smoking and it ain't weed!

Try that, it's 1/5 the size of my lawn.

How much for *1* cow pasture? *1* cow hay for a year.......... You ever baled hay or lived on a farm?

And not a gentlemans place either.


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## Mad Trapper

Mad Trapper said:


> 1/2 acre, 1 person, 1 year?
> 
> What you smoking and it ain't weed!
> 
> Try that, it's 1/5 the size of my lawn.
> 
> How much for *1* cow pasture? *1* cow hay for a year.......... You ever baled hay or lived on a farm?
> 
> And not a gentlemans place either.


So why did I work as a youth for 2.50/hr 40rs/wk ?.............farm girls!!! :tango_face_grin:


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## Redneck

Mad Trapper said:


> 1/2 acre, 1 person, 1 year?
> 
> What you smoking and it ain't weed!
> 
> Try that, it's 1/5 the size of my lawn.
> 
> How much for *1* cow pasture? *1* cow hay for a year.......... You ever baled hay or lived on a farm?
> 
> And not a gentlemans place either.


First of all, I don't smoke, never even tried pot and almost never drink. If you note, I stated that amount *DIDN'T* count acreage for orchards and grazing/hay. I live and work my farmstead but no, have never lived on a farm.

Every situation is different. I already have over 150 mature apple trees plus peach trees and pecans. Just that by itself can produce an amazing amount of calories/nutrition. I have rather large sections of blueberries, blackberries & muscadines and those can easily be expanded quickly. I have chickens and keep incubators that can run off of dc, to ramp up chicken production. I have a catfish pond stocked with thousands of pounds of fresh meat. I feed those catfish every day. Initially I'll have lots of wild game to harvest but understand that won't last long. I have neighbors with cattle herds that I plan to add to my group. If that were to fail, I have lots of food in storage to use as barter. My point being, vegetable gardens are just one aspect of self sufficiency.

Have you ever grown or eaten amaranth? You can grow it very dense and the whole plant, which gets bigger than corn, is edible and can also be used to feed farm animals. I have seed to grow food 9 months out of the year. Living in the deep south gives me a much longer growing season than you Yankees. My pole beans produce for months and the more I pick them, the more they produce. I grow them very dense & let them grow on wire trellis or plastic netting. Down here, just one acre of pole beans can produce a huge amount of food, as each plant only takes up a few inches of garden space but grows up 5-6 feet.

All my orchard and lots of my garden is on drip irrigation. I have huge amounts of tubing & emitters in storage. I have a Grundfos flex well pump in storage, with all the electronics & solar panels to operate it if the grid goes down. I understand the key to having high yields is to keep the plants properly watered... especially here in the hot south. One has to plan for the worst case situation, so I plan on droughts.

I will add, IMO cows are one of the worst meat animals one can choose during a crisis. In the south, during the great depression about the only cows you saw were for milk production... not meat. Chickens & goats are much better meat animals in that they are smaller & can live off the land & need little food from us. The big meat animal was pigs. They can eat almost anything and can WAY out reproduce a cow any day. During a crisis, my plan is to set traps to catch some of the feral hogs around here. Would eat the adults & domesticate their babies.

So yes, I plan on about an acre per person of garden space. I think initially I can get by on less but understand as time goes on, yields will drop. We can disagree but you don't have to get nasty.


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## paulag1955

Just in case anyone is unclear, winter squash can't be stored at outdoor temperatures if there's danger of them freezing.


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## Redneck

paulag1955 said:


> Just in case anyone is unclear, winter squash can't be stored at outdoor temperatures if there's danger of them freezing.


Thanks for that. My point was that you can store winter squash without refrigeration or freezers. In my climate, mine do fine all winter in my garage. In colder climates one might need to move to a cool room inside the house but you don't want them to get warm. But just like the corn & beans, the squash can be dried before storage. Native Americans would construct rather large undergrown cache pits with grass lining, which would protect their food from freezing. I have a great book on native American gardening practices and food storage. It is called Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden.


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## Slippy

At Slippy Lodge, I have approximately 2-3 Acres cleared. On those 2-3 Acres we have our House, Barn, Chicken Coop & Run Area, Raised Beds, Septic System, Grey Water Dump Area and Gravel Driveway. Clearing the other 27 Acres is a major endeavor that requires heavy equipment.

The Veggies that we produce in our gardens are mostly supplemental calories/nutrients. Can we live most of a year and just survive off of our veggies? Maybe, but I sure as hell would lose a ton of weight (which will help me) but Mrs S has very little extra weight to spare. Other than our laying Hens, we raise no protein source.

So, we'll continue to put up and rotate store bought food and prepare the best we can.


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## Mad Trapper

paulag1955 said:


> Just in case anyone is unclear, winter squash can't be stored at outdoor temperatures if there's danger of them freezing.


They'll take a hard frost but not hard freeze. I found some acorns doing garden cleanup that got blasted with high ~20s oF weather.


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## paulag1955

******* said:


> Thanks for that. My point was that you can store winter squash without refrigeration or freezers. In my climate, mine do fine all winter in my garage. In colder climates one might need to move to a cool room inside the house but you don't want them to get warm. But just like the corn & beans, the squash can be dried before storage. Native Americans would construct rather large undergrown cache pits with grass lining, which would protect their food from freezing. I have a great book on native American gardening practices and food storage. It is called Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden.


Fantastic book!


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## paulag1955

Mad Trapper said:


> They'll take a hard frost but not hard freeze. I found some acorns doing garden cleanup that got blasted with high ~20s oF weather.


Were they ruined, then? That's a tragedy.


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## Mad Trapper

paulag1955 said:


> Were they ruined, then? That's a tragedy.


Nope, fine eating and storable.

I have stuff , *still* in the garden growing, not happy but not dead either. Lettuce, broccoli.brussels, chard, kale, cabbage. We had temps in the teens, some coverd , some not.

Bay by lettuce will be transplanted to house. Have greens all year


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## Redneck

paulag1955 said:


> Fantastic book!


Yes it is. Anyone even remotely considering growing food after a SHTF event, should have it.


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## Smitty901

Were at how hard do they want to work ? All things to consider


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## Mad Trapper

Smitty901 said:


> Were at how hard do they want to work ? All things to consider


@Sitty901, I Nevrer worked harder than farm. Maybe the lumber mill?.


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## Eyeball

smokeyquartz said:


> This is complicated. I guess the question is how long do you anticipate your situation will last and remain with the same number? Is this a post-apocalypse situation where there is no more access to birth control and the population on your farm is going to increase? Even if you decide on a number, that number may naturally increase over time.


In a longterm post-apoc situation i'd hope the men in our group would have the good sense to keep their flies zipped up and the women keep their legs together because the last thing they'd want to do is bring babies into a SHTF world..


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## Smitty901

Mad Trapper said:


> @Sitty901, I Nevrer worked harder than farm. Maybe the lumber mill?.


 Growing food to put on your table in Post SHTF is going to be a major labor heavy duty. If the plot is not tended and protected yields go way down. Not as easy as some think . Everything you d is going to consume labor.


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## Real Old Man

Eyeball said:


> It's an important question i've been asking in survival forums for years but everybody seems to have a different opinion..
> 
> Suppose in a SHTF situation our survival group sets up in this deserted farmhouse below, what's the maximum number of people we should allow in the group to keep ourselves comfortably fed all year round? 10? 20? 30? More? Less?
> What do PF members think?


Back in the 60's we fed six adults and assorted visitors on a little over 8 acres. Taters corn, onions beans squash turnips etc. Course we only planted one crop rotation per year. Knowing what I do now, we'd try and get in at least two and maybe a third using a couple of green houses. Meat was store bought. As for when a SHTF happens. Kind of depends on pilferage. (read outside theft).


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## Eyeball

Real Old Man said:


> ..As for when a SHTF happens. Kind of depends on pilferage. (read outside theft).


I believe in SHTF survival rule number one- *"No rules in a knife fight"*..
Anyway if we didn't take the stuff first, somebody else will-


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## Real Old Man

The pictures are out and out looting. Not pilferage. Pilferage is the bunny making inroads into your lettuce. Or the squirrel chomping on an ear of corn.


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## Redneck

Eyeball said:


> I believe in SHTF survival rule number one- *"No rules in a knife fight"*..
> Anyway if we didn't take the stuff first, somebody else will-


Reading some of your comments so far, it seems your prepper strategy is to take from others. IMO, you are posting on the wrong forum. I think you would be a better fit with BLM or other groups that think looting & stealing during a crisis is your right or an opportunity not to be missed.


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## Chiefster23

Well Red, not everybody owns a multi acre rural homestead already equiped with a mature orchard and garden plots. In fact, very few of us could ever afford such a spread. So maybe we can improve our lot by planting a small or medium sized garden, but in fact when the garden produce runs out, looting may be the only option. A sad state of affairs but just the stark reality of the situation. We could be facing very dark times filled with very nasty decisions to be made.


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## Eyeball

******* said:


> Reading some of your comments so far, it seems your prepper strategy is to take from others. IMO, you are posting on the wrong forum. I think you would be a better fit with BLM or other groups that think looting & stealing during a crisis is your right or an opportunity not to be missed.


Do you want your wife and kids to survive or don't you?
Remember I'm talking about a hardcore post-apoc SHTF world where billions have died of plague or radiation or whatever and there are empty houses and deserted stores everywhere which other survivors will help themselves to unless we beat them to it..
My group will be the dominant group for miles around, and if any trespassers come looking for trouble we'll say to them-


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## Eyeball

Chiefster23 said:


> ..in fact when the garden produce runs out, looting may be the only option..


Yeah but I think I'd prefer the word "commandeering" rather than "looting" because looting is something only criminals do..
In a starving post-apoc world it's just plain commonsense to help ourselves from deserted grocers rather than leave good food to go rotten or eaten by rats..
Could get rough out there--


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## Redneck

Eyeball said:


> In a starving post-apoc world it's just plain commonsense to help ourselves from deserted grocers rather than leave good food to go rotten or eaten by rats..
> Could get rough out there--


And you really think these deserted grocers will still be stocked with food? Just waiting for Spanky & his gang to come and stock up?

I'm guessing you are a teen or pre teen, sitting at home because of Covid? Have you ever grown anything? Not read about it or cut & pasted pics... but actually done it?


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## Redneck

Chiefster23 said:


> Well Red, not everybody owns a multi acre rural homestead already equiped with a mature orchard and garden plots. In fact, very few of us could ever afford such a spread. So maybe we can improve our lot by planting a small or medium sized garden, but in fact when the garden produce runs out, looting may be the only option. A sad state of affairs but just the stark reality of the situation. We could be facing very dark times filled with very nasty decisions to be made.


Surely you know looting is a piss poor survival strategy? You have access to a forum full of ideas to help, but you want to plan on looting? The LAST place I want to be post SHTF is anywhere near a store, with other desperate folks. That will be incredibly dangerous, even for the Rambo types here.

I suggest you come up with a plan... something better than stealing from others.


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## Redneck

Eyeball said:


> Do you want your wife and kids to survive or don't you?


Yes, of course. That is why I'm a prepper... not a thief.


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## Chiefster23

******* said:


> Surely you know looting is a piss poor survival strategy? You have access to a forum full of ideas to help, but you want to plan on looting? The LAST place I want to be post SHTF is anywhere near a store, with other desperate folks. That will be incredibly dangerous, even for the Rambo types here.
> 
> I suggest you come up with a plan... something better than stealing from others.


If you've read some of my 2000 plus past posts you'll see that I have a pretty good plan already in place and it doesn't depend on looting. I'm just saying that everyone isn't in the same situation.


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## Redneck

Chiefster23 said:


> If you've read some of my 2000 plus past posts you'll see that I have a pretty good plan already in place and it doesn't depend on looting. I'm just saying that everyone isn't in the same situation.


You did confuse me because my recollection was you know what you are doing. But my point is valid. Post SHTF looting & stealing will be incredibly dangerous.


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## Eyeball

******* said:


> I'm guessing you are a teen or pre teen, sitting at home because of Covid? Have you ever grown anything? Not read about it or cut & pasted pics... but actually done it?..
> ..I'm a prepper... not a thief
> I suggest you come up with a plan..


My plan is to SURVIVE, let us know if you've got a better one..
I'm 72 years old and a Covid survivor, I was expelled from school when I was 12 for "not trying", and I'm also an ex-convict (3 month vigilante rap).
Check out this vid of me under my wargaming name 'PoorOldSpike' and note the supercool confident arrogant body language that's says 'survivor" loud and clear..


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## ND_ponyexpress_

point of being a prepper for me is to "not need something when everyone else wants it".. because you likely won't find it. prep to make it 3 months and everyone alive after that either had it or sharpened their skills getting it!


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## czmead

******* said:


> Impossible to say with what little info you provide. I've seen figures from 1/4 acre per person to 5 acres per person. Some folks, can get by on less than even that 1/4 acre. Just too many factors that come into play. Does your location get plenty of rainfall? What happens during a drought? Do you have drip irrigation? Will your well run off of solar if the grid is down? How good is your soil? Are all beds ready to plant? Do you have enough seed to grow all this food? Is your seed open pollinated? You have fertilizer stored? You have vast quantities of pesticides & herbicides? How long is your growing season? You have a variety of seed to grow 3 crops in the same year... cool weather varieties for spring & fall & warm weather varieties for summer. You have a tractor with proper implements? Plenty of fuel in storage? Are your orchards already mature & producing? You have farm animals as they needs lots of acreage for grass/hay? You have plenty of proper hand tools in case everything has to be done by hand... and not the cheap crap you get at a hardware store? Have you already grown every variety you plan on growing? Are they the best varieties for that area & your micro climate?
> 
> In your drawing, there are not enough fruit trees. I have over 150. By themselves, my orchard is around 2 acres and that doesn't include my blackberries, blueberries, muscadine grapes & nut trees.
> 
> I could go on & on. That is why you will never get an accurate answer. Too many variables


Exactly, so many variables to account for. We have poor soul, and limited rainfall after Spring which has forced us to change our plans for land usage multiple times.

Sent from my VIEW 1 using Tapatalk


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## Redneck

Eyeball said:


> My plan is to SURVIVE, let us know if you've got a better one..


Yes I do. I understand, to survive, the last thing I want is conflict. You aren't Rambo and folks get hurt & die during armed conflict... even you.

This is a prepper forum. We plan on survival by already having what we need PRIOR to the crisis... not stealing it after. If you read my replies here, you would know I have a much better plan than taking from others.


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## Redneck

czmead said:


> Exactly, so many variables to account for. We have poor soul, and limited rainfall after Spring which has forced us to change our plans for land usage multiple times.
> 
> Sent from my VIEW 1 using Tapatalk


Might want to look up some of my posts on growing amaranth. It loves it hot & can handle dry weather.

Also look up that Grundfos flex well pump.


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## czmead

******* said:


> Might want to look up some of my posts on growing amaranth. It loves it hot & can handle dry weather.
> 
> Also look up that Grundfos flex well pump.


Thank you.

Sent from my VIEW 1 using Tapatalk


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Do you want your wife and kids to survive or don't you?
> Remember I'm talking about a hardcore post-apoc SHTF world where billions have died of plague or radiation or whatever and there are empty houses and deserted stores everywhere which other survivors will help themselves to unless we beat them to it..
> My group will be the dominant group for miles around, and if any trespassers come looking for trouble we'll say to them-


You're describing a salvage operation, which is entirely different than looting, which I think of as happening in a panic before there's a clear need, or stealing, which is taking something that belongs to a person who's still in a position to need/use it. Salvaging goods is morally defensible. Looting and stealing are not.


----------



## stevekozak

In an strange turn of events, I find myself at more or less complete agreement with ******* this time. Looting is stealing, and stealing is, in my opinion, a death punishable crime in a true post-SHTF world. Call it what you want, "commandeering" assets that don't belong to you will get you shot, posthaste, in my neck of the woods. What is mine is NOT thine. If you seek to make my stuff, your stuff, you will be given a tiny fraction of my lead supply. A tiny tiny fraction of it. I can't abide a thief.


----------



## Redneck

stevekozak said:


> In an strange turn of events, I find myself at more or less complete agreement with ******* this time.


I think I need to reconsider my position.


----------



## smokeyquartz

Eyeball said:


> In a longterm post-apoc situation i'd hope the men in our group would have the good sense to keep their flies zipped up and the women keep their legs together because the last thing they'd want to do is bring babies into a SHTF world..


Sometimes women are not given a choice...

Women in Berlin at the end of WW2...The Sabine women in ancient Rome...African American slaves...

In a SHTF situation, women would be considered a "resource" or "asset" to be taken and used, the same as a can of carrots or peas, or chickens. It would definitely happen, as it always has happened throughout history. Unless every single woman carried an automatic weapon with multiple rounds at all times.


----------



## Eyeball

Just to clarify, I'm talking about a real hardcore post-apoc situation where billions of people have died of plague or something, and the few survivors are left in a bleak barren world with hardly anybody in it.
For example these starving people in the Survivors 1975 episode 'Gone Away' fill their car at a derelict deserted petrol station, then fill up their shopping baskets at a derelict deserted supermarket, rather than leave the food to the rats. 
Is that 'looting' or 'stealing'?


----------



## Eyeball

smokeyquartz said:


> ..In a SHTF situation, women would be considered a "resource" or "asset" to be taken and used..Unless every single woman carried an automatic weapon with multiple rounds at all times.


Yay, a gal's gotta do..










Oops now some people here might say that'd make the woman a murderer..


----------



## Slippy

Eyeball said:


> My plan is to SURVIVE, let us know if you've got a better one..
> I'm 72 years old and a Covid survivor, I was expelled from school when I was 12 for "not trying", and I'm also an ex-convict (3 month vigilante rap).
> Check out this vid of me under my wargaming name 'PoorOldSpike' and note the supercool confident arrogant body language that's says 'survivor" loud and clear..


I'm more interested the Vigilante Rap! You dusted some Creep-O but all they could pin on you was some trumped up trespassing charge or some such nonsense, right?!

Awesome!


----------



## Slippy

smokeyquartz said:


> Sometimes women are not given a choice...
> 
> Women in Berlin at the end of WW2...The Sabine women in ancient Rome...African American slaves...
> 
> In a SHTF situation, women would be considered a "resource" or "asset" to be taken and used, the same as a can of carrots or peas, or chickens. It would definitely happen, as it always has happened throughout history. Unless every single woman carried an automatic weapon with multiple rounds at all times.


Woe to the sumbitches who think about taking Mrs Slippy during the apocolypse or any other time! That woman will simply wear/beat her abductors down little by little every painful moment over time until they just give up and let her go or give her everything they have and slip away into the night. Axe me how I know this...lain:


----------



## Eyeball

Slippy said:


> I'm more interested the Vigilante Rap!..


Well I wouldn't normally bore people with the sensational story, but seeing as I started this thread and seeing as you've asked, I can tell you that around 2001 I was living in Leicester (England) and got so fed up with a black drug gang selling drugs to the kids at the school across the road that I tipped off the police but the coppers did nothing, cluck-cluck..
Then the gang complained to the coppers that I was "harassing" them by watching their activities through binoculars, so the coppers swung smoothly into action and arrested ME, and I got 3 months in here, you couldn't make it up..-

*Leicester Prison*


----------



## Eyeball

Slippy said:


> Woe to the sumbitches who think about taking Mrs Slippy during the apocolypse or any other time! That woman will simply wear/beat her abductors down little by little every painful moment over time until they just give up and let her go or give her everything they have and slip away into the night. Axe me how I know this...lain:


What a gal, nobody better mess with her..
Hopefully one day I'll meet an American widow off the cruise liners that sometimes put in here at Plymouth, and after a whirlwind romance marry her and go back to live on her ranch with her, she can rope me, throw me and brand me anytime she likes..


----------



## JustAnotherNut

5 acres isn't enough for anyone to survive a post apocolyptic world, considering there won't be any electricity or city water and you'd have to provide all your own renewable resources. Wood for heating & cooking, growing not only vegetables but also the seasonings and knowing how to process and preserve it all for winter, raising, cutting, dry/curing or otherwise processing the feed used for animals, plus butchering, processing and preserving that meat. 

It takes alot more than just land, animals and crops to survive.....like the skills, knowledge and experience in how to get the most out of it over a longer period of time.


----------



## Mad Trapper

Eyeball said:


> Well I wouldn't normally bore people with the sensational story, but seeing as I started this thread and seeing as you've asked, I can tell you that around 2001 I was living in Leicester (England) and got so fed up with a black drug gang selling drugs to the kids at the school across the road that I tipped off the police but the coppers did nothing, cluck-cluck..
> Then the gang complained to the coppers that I was "harassing" them by watching their activities through binoculars, so the coppers swung smoothly into action and arrested ME, and I got 3 months in here, you couldn't make it up..-
> 
> *Leicester Prison*


There is a reason we sent the Brits back across the pond. Looks that was in vain given Nov election


----------



## Eyeball

JustAnotherNut said:


> ..It takes alot more than just land, animals and crops to survive.....like the skills, knowledge and experience in how to get the most out of it over a longer period of time


Right, as i've said before I know zilch about hunting, fishing, growing, cooking, women, livestock etc but hopefully i'll be able to recruit people into my Doomsday group who know how to do that stuff.
Below- these poor slobs in Stargate Universe shuttled down to a lush fertile alien planet in summer (episode 'Faith') and it blew their socks off so much that they decided to stay.
But when winter kicked in they were totally unprepared and unskilled, and all died, (bottom pic, episode 'Visitation')-
(Their mothership had long gone so they couldn't shuttle back to it)


----------



## Eyeball

Mad Trapper said:


> There is a reason we sent the Brits back across the pond. Looks that was in vain given Nov election


We English INVENTED America for you, and if it wasn't for us you'd still be living in wigwams, scalping each other and attacking wagon trains..


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Eyeball said:


> We English INVENTED America for you, and if it wasn't for us you'd still be living in wigwams, scalping each other and attacking wagon trains..


You honestly think 'modern' Americans are all descended from 'native' Americans?

News flash for you: America was created by Germans, Irishmen, Spaniards, Frenchmen, Scotsmen, Italians, Swedes, Portuguese, et al. You Brits are some of the et al.


----------



## Eyeball

Back Pack Hack said:


> ..News flash for you: America was created by Germans, Irishmen, Spaniards, Frenchmen, Scotsmen, Italians, Swedes, Portuguese, et al. You Brits are some of the et al.


But mate, the English language has been the biggest game on the park since we founded America, that's why you're speaking it now..
As the history books rightly say- _*"The Spanish went to look for gold, the French went to set up trading outposts, but the English went to stay."*_
In fact English was the first language spoken on another world, how kool is that?..:vs_cool:


----------



## Annie

Frankly, I'd rather die than to loot or steal. I hope God would take me before I'd stooped so low as to do that. I'm more afraid of hell then I am of not surviving in this life.


----------



## stevekozak

Eyeball said:


> Just to clarify, I'm talking about a real hardcore post-apoc situation where billions of people have died of plague or something, and the few survivors are left in a bleak barren world with hardly anybody in it.
> For example these starving people in the Survivors 1975 episode 'Gone Away' fill their car at a derelict deserted petrol station, then fill up their shopping baskets at a derelict deserted supermarket, rather than leave the food to the rats.
> Is that 'looting' or 'stealing'?


It is fantasy.


----------



## Slippy

Eyeball said:


> Well I wouldn't normally bore people with the sensational story, but seeing as I started this thread and seeing as you've asked, I can tell you that around 2001 I was living in Leicester (England) and got so fed up with a black drug gang selling drugs to the kids at the school across the road that I tipped off the police but the coppers did nothing, cluck-cluck..
> Then the gang complained to the coppers that I was "harassing" them by watching their activities through binoculars, so the coppers swung smoothly into action and arrested ME, and I got 3 months in here, you couldn't make it up..-
> 
> *Leicester Prison*


Don't make the black kids angry...https://www.colinflaherty.com/#books


----------



## Slippy

Great thread @Eyeball !


----------



## Slippy

Eyeball said:


> What a gal, nobody better mess with her..
> Hopefully one day I'll meet an American widow off the cruise liners that sometimes put in here at Plymouth, and after a whirlwind romance marry her and go back to live on her ranch with her, she can rope me, throw me and brand me anytime she likes..


You should have been a cowboy!


----------



## Redneck

Ya gotta love this guy! He knows nothing of growing crops but wants to know how much land he will need per person. His fantasy is for his gang to be pretty much the only survivors of this crisis, and for houses, farms & stores to be fully stocked with food... just waiting for someone to come and take. Curious what mojo juice his gang took that allowed them all to survive when everyone else has died immediately? The billions of deaths had to be immediate, because the stores are still stocked. And then of course, not only are the stores stocked with food but these farms he is gonna take over, have hundreds of pounds of seed plus fertilizer & chemicals just waiting for someone to come & use. I mean, you gotta love a fantasy world where everyone else is gone and everything is in place & ready for you. And of course, in this fantasy, surely someone will know how to become self reliant. I mean, that is such a common knowledge set. But it gets better because they transform into Rambo because they will wipe out anyone in their way, and suffer no casualties.

You know, I love fantasies too. Mine are just of a different nature. I'll let real world knowledge, preps & expectations rule my post SHTF world.


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Right, as i've said before I know zilch about hunting, fishing, growing, cooking, women, livestock etc but hopefully i'll be able to recruit people into my Doomsday group who know how to do that stuff.
> Below- these poor slobs in Stargate Universe shuttled down to a lush fertile alien planet in summer (episode 'Faith') and it blew their socks off so much that they decided to stay.
> But when winter kicked in they were totally unprepared and unskilled, and all died, (bottom pic, episode 'Visitation')-
> (Their mothership had long gone so they couldn't shuttle back to it)


Forget Stargate Universe. The Pilgrims barely survived their first winter in Plymouth Colony and if it hadn't been for the Native Americans, it may have been decades before the British established a viable colony in North America. The French or Spanish may have beaten them to it and English wouldn't be the language of politics. So don't feel too haughty.


----------



## Eyeball

Annie said:


> Frankly, I'd rather die than to loot or steal. I hope God would take me before I'd stooped so low as to do that. I'm more afraid of hell then I am of not surviving in this life.


Me too, I was once on a cycle-camping trip in the Cotswold hills and as dawn broke i was cold, tired and hungry but the village shops weren't open yet and I was sorely tempted to pinch a bottle of milk that the milkman had left on people's doorsteps, but resisted because it'd have been stealing.
However, - and this is the point I made earlier- in a post-apoc situation where everybody in the village was dead, I'd certainly take a bottle rather than let it go to waste because there'd be nothing morally or legally wrong in that.
We could even speculate that God might be angry if we let food and milk etc go to waste..


----------



## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> Forget Stargate Universe. The Pilgrims barely survived their first winter in Plymouth Colony and if it hadn't been for the Native Americans, it may have been decades before the British established a viable colony in North America. The French or Spanish may have beaten them to it and English wouldn't be the language of politics. So don't feel too haughty.


Good point, I read a lot of survival books (just ordered myself one as a Christmas present called 'Extreme Survival'- 60 true stories) and am amazed at how many explorers in harsh climates starved to death even though native tribes all around them were living off the land quite happily just as they'd been doing for centuries..
Often the natives were glad to help if the explorers asked for food, but generally it was as if the explorers were too proud to ask for help.


----------



## Eyeball

******* said:


> Ya gotta love this guy! He knows nothing of growing crops but wants to know how much land he will need per person...
> The billions of deaths had to be immediate, because the stores are still stocked. And then of course, not only are the stores stocked with food but these farms he is gonna take over, have hundreds of pounds of seed plus fertilizer & chemicals just waiting for someone to come & use....
> You know, I love fantasies too. Mine are just of a different nature...


1- Yup, I've lived in big cities all my life and openly admit I know zilch about growing crops and stuff, but I'm a fast learner, and I play plenty of hardcore strategy / survival games (below is my Steam collection) so in a SHTF situation I'm sure I could get by..










2- A sudden plague could wipe out billions overnight, turning the world into a barren almost-deserted derelict place where nobody owns the stuff left in shops and grocers and farms, so the few survivors can help themselves to it with a clear conscience rather than let it rot..
It won't last forever but it'll give us time to learn all the old skills again-

_Survivors 1975-_


----------



## Eyeball

******* said:


> You know, I love fantasies too..


Between you and me mate, a fantasy of mine is to stagger into Dr.Quinn's surgery with a rattler bite to my calf and she has to (gulp) suck out the venom, then sit up with me all night dabbing my fevered brow with a damp cloth as I twist and turn in delirium, whispering to me "Hang in there baby, we'll ride this thing out together"..


----------



## stevekozak

Eyeball said:


> Between you and me mate, a fantasy of mine is to stagger into Dr.Quinn's surgery with a rattler bite to my calf and she has to (gulp) suck out the venom, then sit up with me all night dabbing my fevered brow with a damp cloth as I twist and turn in delirium, whispering to me "Hang in there baby, we'll ride this thing out together"..


.........


----------



## smokeyquartz

Eyeball said:


> Well I wouldn't normally bore people with the sensational story, but seeing as I started this thread and seeing as you've asked, I can tell you that around 2001 I was living in Leicester (England) and got so fed up with a black drug gang selling drugs to the kids at the school across the road that I tipped off the police but the coppers did nothing, cluck-cluck..
> Then the gang complained to the coppers that I was "harassing" them by watching their activities through binoculars, so the coppers swung smoothly into action and arrested ME, and I got 3 months in here, you couldn't make it up..-
> 
> *Leicester Prison*


Disney castle! Just kidding.


----------



## Eyeball

Topic title-*How many people can land feed?*
----------------------------------------------------------------

Well this thread has run to 8 fascinating pages since I tossed that question into the PF playpen, so here's a brief summary of replies so far-

JustAnotherNut- "5 acres isn't enough for anyone to survive a post apocolyptic world"
Mad Trapper- "I don't think even one. On 5 acres"
Real Old Man- "Back in the 60's we fed six adults and assorted visitors on a little over 8 acres"
*******- "Impossible to say with what little info you provide. I've seen figures from 1/4 acre per person to 5 acres per person. Some folks, can get by on less than even that 1/4 acre..I'm guessing that I would need anywhere from 1/2 acre to 1 acre per person.."
Smokeyquartz- "This is complicated..Humans have had this dilemma since forever"
Paulag1955- "as ******* says, there are so many variables that's it's impossible to say"
Czmead- "so many variables to account for"


----------



## Eyeball

Okay what does PF think about this scenario?-
There's no future in the cities after a hardcore apocalypse has wiped out 99% of the human race with plague or nuclear war or asteroid strike or whatever..









So our group has got out and taken over this big country house (below) after giving the deceased owners a decent cremation and called it 'Doomsday Hall'.

It seems to tick all the right boxes, namely-
1- Well away from the starving cities and their violent gangs.
2- Big house with a number of rooms.
3- Food from the woods and fields including game birds and deer etc.
4- Water and fish from the river. (we can also sling our buckets of sewage in there, downstream of course).
5- More fish from the sea, seaweed from the beach,and cockles and mussel things from the rockpools. (We can also boil seawater to distill salt)
6- Rivers provide a good defensive obstacle.
7- Temperate climate.
Looks good to me, or have I overlooked anything?

Below: Doomsday Hall


----------



## stowlin

Sorry didn’t read all 8 pages. Look up aquaponics and you’ll find a great answer. It takes some resources to manage an aquaponics farm but if you have those resources the number of square feet needed to feed a person forever is quite reasonable. 

Outside of what I wrote it’s cold and wet here. We get one grow season a year for greens, but we have a lot of fowl for the taking. We have several acres and could barely survive from it if we had too and even then with only lots of assets in preservation for the off season.


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball, how are you going to acquire those old time skills? Trial and error? Because that will take years, possibly longer than your salvaged supplies will last.


----------



## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> Eyeball, how are you going to acquire those old time skills? Trial and error? Because that will take years, possibly longer than your salvaged supplies will last.


Well luckily there'll be plenty of books around to give us a clue, here's some of my current survival-themed books-










And we'll have this workshop at the back of Doomsday Hall where we can repair or make new tools etc..


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Eyeball said:


> Well luckily there'll be plenty of books around to give us a clue, here's some of my current survival-themed books-
> 
> And we'll have this workshop at the back of Doomsday Hall where we can repair or make new tools etc..


Anyone can rip images off the internet!

https://tineye.com/search/4413126e7dabed000708ca8f93fbdd253f7258e2?sort=score&order=desc&page=1

[url]https://tineye.com/search/b209623d493b014724e94f952c6a8561a66f8a18?sort=score&order=desc&page=1
[/URL]


----------



## Eyeball

Back Pack Hack said:


> Anyone can rip images off the internet!


Yes mate, ain't we lucky, here's a pic of Sarah Sanders for you to print out and keep on your bedside table..


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Eyeball said:


> Yes mate, ain't we lucky, here's a pic of Sarah Sanders for you to print out and keep on your bedside table..


My point is...... you are a _pretender _here.


----------



## Eyeball

Back Pack Hack said:


> My point is...... you are a _pretender _here.


Sorry mate I dunno what that means.
PS- Get yourself a better avatar, as 5.56mm is only .22" but you need at least 6.5mm or 76.2mm to survive when the shooting starts..


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Eyeball said:


> Sorry mate I dunno what that means.
> PS- Get yourself a better avatar, as 5.56mm is only .22" but you need at least 6.5mm or 76.2mm to survive when the shooting starts..


Your Honour, I rest my case.


----------



## Chiefster23

76.2mm? What are you shooting? Artillery? Have you ever shot 5.56 or are you giving us the benefit of your vast gaming experience?


----------



## paulag1955

No offense, Eyeball, but you're quite low on my list of people I'd want to be grouped with if the sh*t were to hit the fan. In fact, you're right off the bottom of the page.


----------



## Big Boy in MO

Eyeball said:


> Well luckily there'll be plenty of books around to give us a clue, here's some of my current survival-themed books-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we'll have this workshop at the back of Doomsday Hall where we can repair or make new tools etc..


Eyeball, What kinda drugs are you smoking because your hallucinating!!! Or are you off your Meds??


----------



## Redneck

Don't feed the trolls. I still say this is a pre-teen with too much Covid time on his/her hands.


----------



## Eyeball

Chiefster23 said:


> 76.2mm? What are you shooting? Artillery? Have you ever shot 5.56..


Good thinking mate, at Doomsday Hall we'll use small calibres for hunting small game, and bigger calibres for bigger game, including self-defence against violent trespassers..
Let's not forget that Serpico was hit pointblank in the kisser with a small .22" handgun round but it just made a hole in his cheek and left him dazed.


----------



## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> No offense, Eyeball, but you're quite low on my list of people I'd want to be grouped with if the sh*t were to hit the fan. In fact, you're right off the bottom of the page.


Attaboy mate, I like doods who speak their mind, we don't want yes-men at Doomsday Hall..
And speaking of lists, here's one that serves as my "survival credentials", I topped this online wargaming league under my fighting name 'PoorOldSpike'-


----------



## Eyeball

******* said:


> Don't feed the trolls. I still say this is a pre-teen with too much Covid time on his/her hands.


Nah mate, like i said, I'm 72 years old, Bear Grylls and Ed Stafford have still got years to go before they make it as far as me on life's road..
Here's a recent pic of me in my new combat jacket wearing my tough "hardman" expression-


----------



## paulag1955

@Eyeball A. I'm not a dude. B. Wargaming? You're kidding, right?

Actual photo of Eyeball:


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Newsflash, there, Skippy: *There ain't no "Doomsday Hall".*

Nobody here gives a rodent's rectum about your online gaming prowess. You're a fakir. A fraud. A charlatan. A poser. A troll.

Now go back and sit down at the rickety old card table set up for the kids and let the adults take care of things.


----------



## Eyeball

Here's a recap of this sensational thread-

Below: Doomsday Hall (I've added coils of barbed wire around the house).
Like I said, it's hypothetical and doesn't exist yet, but in a SHTF situation we'll have to get out of the riot-torn cities and take over a big country house like this, the previous owners will have died of the post-apoc plague so we'll give them a decent cremation and move in-










Below: We should be able to grow stuff and raise livestock along the lines of this spread, but our land will cover more than 5 acres.
I know zilch about hunting, shooting, fishing cooking, so hopefully we'll find people who do.
I think a good group size should be around 15 people, that sounds about right for defending ourselves, and the land should provide enough food for 15, what do PF members think?










Below: The Hall vehicle, we'll find something like this on a deserted army base and use it for our foraging trips into town.
I don't drive so we'll need a driver with guts who'll step up to the plate-
PS- or should we get a veh with a roof-mounted gun?










Could get rough out there when the mobs see us coming and start rocking and rolling-


----------



## Back Pack Hack




----------



## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> @Eyeball..I'm not a dude..


You're a dame??
Good for you, we'll need tough babes at the Hall to deal with trespassers..


----------



## Eyeball

Back Pack Hack said:


> Nobody here gives a rodent's rectum about your online gaming prowess..


Whoa mate, even the military (below) uses games and simulations for training..










Below: me leading my squad in 'Armed Assault III", I tell them- *"Stick with me if you want to live, and never fear to use insane overwhelming firepower, let the fear be your enemies"*









My character in AA3, note the underbarrel grenade launcher on my assault rifle, I'd feel naked without it..


----------



## Eyeball

Back Pack Hack said:


>


I LURV IT, we'll need people with a sense of humour at the Hall!
I mean, you're accusing me of trolling MY OWN THREAD, bloody hilarious.

PS mate, just a friendly suggestion but get yourself a camo jacket and dark rucksack because at the moment in gear like below you'd be a bullet magnet for every rioter/looter for miles around..

Back Pack Hack


----------



## Eyeball

Okay muchachos let's suppose we've moved into a big country house and named it 'Doomsday Hall'
Here's a gallery of shots of the place, looking good..-

Aerial view, note barbed wire perimeter around the Hall-


















the communal living room with log fire and lit by candles (no electricity or gas in the post-apoc world)-









One of the bedrooms-









the kitchen-









dining room-









view from the windows


----------



## Eyeball

the workshop- 









workshop inside- 



























the veg plot-


----------



## Eyeball

Our next job will be to tour the district to round up abandoned cattle, sheep, chickens, pigs etc and bring them to the Hall.
We'll also no doubt bump into people like this on our travels and wouldn't have the heart to not bring them too..

_"Hey people, you wouldn't happen to have a spare doughnut would you, I haven't eaten in days" _









_"I'm hungry, mummy and daddy are inside but they won't wake up".._


----------



## Eyeball

Alright, if anybody is wondering, this will be a typical days activity at Doomsday Hall-

Firstly we'll roll out of bed any time we like throughout the morning up to around 11am or noonish, no pressure on anybody.
Some will like rising early, and others not so early, whatever floats peoples boat.
We'll go down to the kitchen (pic below) and put the kettle on and maybe have a spot of breakfast.
We might be alone there, or one or two others might be in there, and perhaps others will get out of bed and drift down too.










Secondly we'll amble over to look at that blackboard (circled) to see where other people are.
Listed down the lefthand side are the regular jobs that might need doing, so we chalk our name against whatever job we fancy doing that day.
Here's the list-

_*Tending the animals
Tending the vegetable garden
Tending the crops in the fields
Picking berries, mushrooms and herbs etc in the woods.
Hunting rabbits, game birds and the odd deer
Fishing in the river
Fishing in the sea, gathering edible seaweed and collecting shellfish in the rockpools
Distilling seawater to obtain salt
Collecting wood for the stove
Making bread, biscuits, booze and wine etc
Preparing and cooking food
Taking the Hall vehicle on foraging trips into the nearly-deserted towns and cities to pick up canned food, lanterns, batteries, medicines, fuel, guns and ammo, bows and crossbows etc.*_

Or if we don't particular feel like doing anything that day we can chalk our name against 'Nothing' on the board.
The board lets us know where everybody is and what they're doing at all times.
During the day people can return to the hall for a cup of tea and a snack then either go back to what they were doing or choose something else.
The big evening meal will be around 7pm and everybody with an appetite will make sure they're back in the dining room for it.

Below: this couple have chosen to do 'Nothing'..


----------



## MountainGirl

Eyeball said:


> Okay muchachos *let's suppose *we've moved into a big country house and named it 'Doomsday Hall'
> Here's a gallery of shots of the place, looking good..- ...


Hiya Eyeball 

I've been catching up on threads and I must admit your posts are a bit entertaining, and I think it's great you made your own thread for your fantasizing, AND I see you rely on gaming for your weapons experience, etc.... Do you mind a serious question? You may have mentioned this in a post I didn't see, but do you have any real life experience (IRL) in any of your fantasy aspects? (Hunting, gardening, surviving) Even living rough can give a taste of that...right? I know you have lots of books & manuals etc - but that might put you in the same category as the fella who read all the books on carpentry, framing, etc, but never actually had a hammer in his hand. Do you or will you have an opportunity (long before you need the actual skills) to try out some of the things you're dreaming/planning about?

There used to be a member here (TGus) who was always laying out his grand plan of planting gardens on the roofs of all the brownstones in Boston - and creating a community of neighbors, etc., who he would naturally lead... and I confess for a moment I thought you might be him reincarnate... but he pretended to know everything, whereas you state upfront this is all just your pretendings.

In case you haven't sussed it yet, members here have a wealth of knowledge and are eager to help those of us who are already doing these things in the real world - but might have little time or truck to interact with those who are just dreaming and pretending...because, and I base this on your latest posts in this thread, most of your 'pics and plans' are not realistic by a long shot. Like reading the books, 'ideas' about this or that are fine when there's nothing else to do - but it's only by being out there in the real world, with the hammer in your hand, will you learn what 'works' and what doesn't.

So, will you, do you, have the opportunity to go 'grab a hammer'? I hope so, for your sake if survival is something you're serious about. If you do not, or choose to not, then I wish you well with your pretending and gaming (here and elsewhere) and leave you to it.

Best regards,
MG


----------



## Eyeball

MountainGirl said:


> Hiya Eyeball
> I must admit your posts are a bit entertaining, and I think it's great you made your own thread for your fantasizing...


Thanks, in the military and wargaming world they play hypothetical "scenarios" (which is another name for fantasising) because they're a great tool for studying how to survive in various situations.
My 'Doomsday Hall' scenario is set in a future world where 99% of humans have been wiped out by a plague or asteroid, and our survival group has moved into that big country house.
Scenarios are FUN to discuss.. 
i've already said i know zilch about guns, hunting, fishing, cooking, driving, women, medicine, tools etc, that's why I've invited all PF members to feel free to chip in with ideas and suggestions etc so we can all learn from each other..

Below: in Survivors 1975 poor Abby recovers from a fever and discovers everybody else in her village is dead of the plague, don't we just wanna give her a great big hug (sniffle)-


----------



## Elvis

Eyeball said:


> Topic title-*How many people can land feed?*
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Well this thread has run to 8 fascinating pages since I tossed that question into the PF playpen, so here's a brief summary of replies so far-
> 
> JustAnotherNut- "5 acres isn't enough for anyone to survive a post apocolyptic world"
> Mad Trapper- "I don't think even one. On 5 acres"
> Real Old Man- "Back in the 60's we fed six adults and assorted visitors on a little over 8 acres"
> *******- "Impossible to say with what little info you provide. I've seen figures from 1/4 acre per person to 5 acres per person. Some folks, can get by on less than even that 1/4 acre..I'm guessing that I would need anywhere from 1/2 acre to 1 acre per person.."
> Smokeyquartz- "This is complicated..Humans have had this dilemma since forever"
> Paulag1955- "as ******* says, there are so many variables that's it's impossible to say"
> Czmead- "so many variables to account for"


As someone who has actually known people who mostly survived on what they grew and lives in a rural area I can say it depends on how good the land and water availability is. I've known people who got by on 2 acres in NC with good fairly flat land and a medium sized creek running through the property. They grew mostly potatoes, greens, and some corn and beans. With steeper land with a tiny stream less than 500 yds away from the creek the other person I knew had needed 10-15 acres to feed one person. On the steeper land they grew some food but focused more on pigs and goats.

As for the few families you read about with 5 acre farms who "grow most of their food on less than an acre per person" those people have spent a ton of money developing the site and need to bring in supplies to keep up that super high productivity rate. Someone on those properties has a regular job that allows them to pay for supplies to keep the "farm" going.


----------



## Elvis

Eyeball said:


> Well luckily there'll be plenty of books around to give us a clue, here's some of my current survival-themed books-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And we'll have this workshop at the back of Doomsday Hall where we can repair or make new tools etc..


So do you actually own that workshop or is this just your fantacy?


----------



## Eyeball

Elvis said:


> So do you actually own that workshop or is this just your fantacy?


Sorry, i should have made it clear that this entire Doomsday Hall thread (including the workshop) is just a fantasy scenario where people can have FUN discussing it and maybe pick up some good advice from each other so that when it hits the fan for real in a post-apoc world we can turn it into reality..


----------



## Elvis

EyeBall, 

Just letting you know than MountainGirl and several other people on this site to a large degree live the lifestyle you're fantasying about. They know how much work it is to maintain the property. They also know that while books are useful it takes a lot of hands on practice to develop some of the skills you are claiming.

Video games will not help you learn useful survival skills. Please don't present your mental masterbation as reality.


----------



## Elvis

Eyeball said:


> Sorry, i should have made it clear that this entire Doomsday Hall thread (including the workshop) is just a fantasy scenario where people can have FUN discussing it and maybe pick up some good advice from each other so that when it hits the fan for real in a post-apoc world we can turn it into reality..


Your joking right?

Do you actually think you're going to learn useful survival skills living in your grandmother's basement playing a video game?


----------



## Eyeball

Elvis said:


> Your joking right?
> 
> Do you actually think you're going to learn useful survival skills living in your grandmother's basement playing a video game?


Yup..
Even the military play video games and simulators because they know they're great learning tools..










And I do alright in the online wargaming jungles under my fighting name 'PoorOldSpike' :vs_cool:










Below: I tell my wargame squad _"Stick with me if you want to live"_..


----------



## Elvis

The military uses video training to supplement hands on training, especially dangerous shooting exercises. But first the military actually requires that the solider dig ditches, cut trees, and shoot a real rifle; shoot that rifle a lot to really learn how to safely run the rifle. Real rappelling with gloves on hands, stringing wire, actual orienteering walking around with a map and compass in your hand.

Because I live a fairly rural lifestyle and married a woman with adult children who live a much more urban lifestyle I've taken several video game trained adults for their first time shooting a real gun. Doing this has taught me there is nothing more dangerous than a video game taught person shooting a real gun. Last one actually pulled the trigger "to see if the gun was loaded". Damn near blew his foot off. Needless to say I now stay very close and require strict range rules when they come over. Just because someone claims to know what they are doing doesn't mean much when working with a video game trained person.

And allowing one to use a maul to split wood,,, well, let's not go there. How about using a chainsaw to cut a limb without pinching the bar?

Yep, I occasionally use U-Tube to help me learn a new skill; but I haven't actually learned the skill until I've actually preformed the new task several times. Hands on is different from watching a video and very different than thinking you are learning from a fantacy video game designed by other people who have also never mastered the skill. 
Kind of "The Blind Leading the Blind".

If I may make a suggestion... Get off your ass and go and life live. Dig a ditch, chop down and split a tree for firewood, geld some young bulls. Just build a chicken coop and maintain a few birds. Then you'll actually be learning some skills.

Or how about actually joining the army?


----------



## Elvis

Elvis said:


> The military uses video training to supplement hands on training, especially dangerous shooting exercises. But first the military actually requires that the solider dig ditches, cut trees, and shoot a real rifle; shoot that rifle a lot to really learn how to safely run the rifle. Real rappelling with gloves on hands, stringing wire, actual orienteering walking around with a map and compass in your hand.
> 
> Because I live a fairly rural lifestyle and married a woman with adult children who live a much more urban lifestyle I've taken several video game trained adults for their first time shooting a real gun. Doing this has taught me there is nothing more dangerous than a video game taught person shooting a real gun. Last one actually pulled the trigger "to see if the gun was loaded". Damn near blew his foot off. Needless to say I now stay very close and require strict range rules when they come over. Just because someone claims to know what they are doing doesn't mean much when working with a video game trained person.
> 
> And allowing one to use a maul to split wood,,, well, let's not go there. How about using a chainsaw to cut a limb without pinching the bar?
> 
> Yep, I occasionally use U-Tube to help me learn a new skill; but I haven't actually learned the skill until I've actually preformed the new task several times. Hands on is different from watching a video and very different than thinking you are learning from a fantacy video game designed by other people who have also never mastered the skill.
> Kind of "The Blind Leading the Blind".
> 
> If I may make a suggestion... Get off your ass and go and life live. Dig a ditch, chop down and split a tree for firewood, geld some young bulls. Just build a chicken coop and maintain a few birds. Then you'll actually be learning some skills.
> 
> Or how about actually joining the army?


And don't give the the excuse that you're too young. When I was 13 I spent many days tramping the mountain with a 22 rifle in hand. When I got my license at 16 (so I could drive to new areas) I often took off with a map and compass orienteering for 2-3 days at a time with a pack on my back. My longest trip was in Colorado at age 17 (just graduated high school) was 24 days without coming in for supplies. Some friends left me catches of food at two prearranged sites but I never saw them and only saw a few people during that time.

And don't say that you're too old either. I built another chicken coop last month and cut some firewood the other day. There is no excuse not to live life.


----------



## Big Boy in MO

Eyeball said:


> Thanks, in the military and wargaming world they play hypothetical "scenarios" (which is another name for fantasising) because they're a great tool for studying how to survive in various situations.
> My 'Doomsday Hall' scenario is set in a future world where 99% of humans have been wiped out by a plague or asteroid, and our survival group has moved into that big country house.
> Scenarios are FUN to discuss..
> i've already said i know zilch about guns, hunting, fishing, cooking, driving, women, medicine, tools etc, that's why I've invited all PF members to feel free to chip in with ideas and suggestions etc so we can all learn from each other..
> 
> Below: in Survivors 1975 poor Abby recovers from a fever and discovers everybody else in her village is dead of the plague, don't we just wanna give her a great big hug (sniffle)-


I think the point MG was trying to get across to you is; if you imagined to dig a big hole with a shovel, would you get a blister?? In your game play have you ever been shot or blown up?? Did you bleed, get wounded in real life?? You need to have skin in the game, aka dirt time.


----------



## Eyeball

Elvis said:


> ..If I may make a suggestion... Get off your ass and go and life live. Dig a ditch, chop down and split a tree for firewood, geld some young bulls...
> Or how about actually joining the army?


As I've repeatedly admitted in this sensational thread, I know zilch about guns, hunting, cooking, women, livestock etc and am eager to learn..
For examp what size scissors should we use for gelding bulls?

PS- I thought about joining the Brit army in my teens and sent off for a glossy brochure, but soon decided I wouldn't be able to take all that boot-polishing bullshite, and i knew i'd never want to take orders i didn't agree with, so I dropped the idea.
Got a shock a couple of weeks later when a 'Sergeant Butterfield' from the local recruiting office came knocking my door on a courtesy follow-up visit in full dress uniform, stripes and all, so i didn't answer and took cover behind the settee til he'd gone!


----------



## Eyeball

Big Boy in MO said:


> I think the point MG was trying to get across to you is; if you imagined to dig a big hole with a shovel, would you get a blister?? In your game play have you ever been shot or blown up?? Did you bleed, get wounded in real life?? You need to have skin in the game, aka dirt time.


No mate, i've never had my ass in the grass but I've seen war stuff on TV..
Here's me wearing my lean and hungry look in the camo jacket I bought earlier this year-


----------



## Eyeball

MountainGirl said:


> Hiya Eyeball
> ..do you have any real life experience (IRL) in any of your fantasy aspects?..Even living rough can give a taste of that...right?


Well I lived rough in a wood for a while after getting out of jail (3-month vigilante rap) because the lefty council had evicted me from my flat because of my "anti-social" sentence.
I took it real kool however and saw the funny side of it as I lay in my tent in a remote wood "Oh great" I thought, "I've ended up as Bigfoot"..


----------



## Eyeball

Elvis said:


> ..When I was 13 I spent many days tramping the mountain with a 22 rifle in hand..


Good for you mate, I was expelled from school around that age in 1961 for "not trying", I was a rebellious little mofo even then..
Later I was in an orienteering club, great fun, and a cycling club; hardest ride I ever did was a 100-mile Reliability Trial in midwinter, only a few of us finished the course..


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> You're a dame??
> Good for you, we'll need tough babes at the Hall to deal with trespassers..


Sorry, I'll be hanging with people who have actual, real-world skills.


----------



## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> Sorry, I'll be hanging with people who have actual, real-world skills.


Good luck with that, I've reached 72 years of age so my survival skills on life's road are top-notch, even Bear Grylls and Ed Stafford have got years to go before they catch up with me, and so have these special forces guys..


----------



## Elvis

Damn, I got it wrong, I thought Eyeball was a 15 yr old kid with a kid's imagination and time to kill playing video games. That at least would explain a lot of his delusional statements.


----------



## MountainGirl

Elvis said:


> Damn, I got it wrong, ....


No you didn't. :vs_lol:


----------



## jeffh

This thread had soooo much potential back in it's infancy of the first few pages. Then it went to hell in a hand-basket.


----------



## NewRiverGeorge

Eyeball said:


> PS mate, just a friendly suggestion but get yourself a camo jacket and dark rucksack because at the moment in gear like below you'd be a bullet magnet for every rioter/looter for miles around..
> 
> Back Pack Hack


You do know BPH is one of the most respected members of these forums with a virtual encyclopedia of knowledge he has shared with us over the years? I know you have have shown us some really nifty pics of your swagger, your high score on your Nintendo, and your fashion sense, but something tells me it's more like this...









*click to see animation*


----------



## hawgrider

Eyeball said:


> Good luck with that, I've reached 72 years of age so my survival skills on life's road are top-notch, even Bear Grylls and Ed Stafford have got years to go before they catch up with me, and so have these special forces guys..


A real "Gasser" ye are. :vs_lol:


----------



## Eyeball

jeffh said:


> This thread had soooo much potential back in it's infancy of the first few pages. Then it went to hell in a hand-basket.


Hey remember this is MY thread, I started it and it's my show..
Sure some trolls are invading it to try to derail it but they don't know I WELCOME them because they're funny, and in a post-apoc world we'll need comedians to keep the group's morale high..

PS- I see the thread has now run to 13 pages, so thanks to everybody who's contributed, I can now brag and swagger around internetland saying how my threads are very popular..

PS again- between you and me mate, what do you think my chances with Mountaingirl are, does she like older men?


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> Hey remember this is MY thread, I started it and it's my show..
> Sure some trolls are invading it to try to derail it but they don't know I WELCOME them because they're funny, and in a post-apoc world we'll need comedians to keep the group's morale high..
> 
> PS- I see the thread has now run to 13 pages, so thanks to everybody who's contributed, I can now brag and swagger around internetland saying how my threads are very popular..
> 
> PS again- between you and me mate, what do you think my chances with Mountaingirl are, does she like older men?


I'm pretty certain that this thread wasn't started as a serious thread. I'm thinking you've meant it to be a waste of time.


----------



## Eyeball

Denton said:


> I'm pretty certain that this thread wasn't started as a serious thread. I'm thinking you've meant it to be a waste of time.


Well, I titled this thread 'How many people can land feed?' which seemed a legitimate question to ask in a Prepping forum..
And PF's finest stepped up to the plate (bless their little cotton sox) and answered throughout the first 8 pages, here's a summary of their awesome wisdom-

_JustAnotherNut- "5 acres isn't enough for anyone to survive a post apocolyptic world"
Mad Trapper- "I don't think even one. On 5 acres"
Real Old Man- "Back in the 60's we fed six adults and assorted visitors on a little over 8 acres"
*******- "Impossible to say with what little info you provide. I've seen figures from 1/4 acre per person to 5 acres per person. Some folks, can get by on less than even that 1/4 acre..I'm guessing that I would need anywhere from 1/2 acre to 1 acre per person.."
Smokeyquartz- "This is complicated..Humans have had this dilemma since forever"
Paulag1955- "as ******* says, there are so many variables that's it's impossible to say"
Czmead- "so many variables to account for"_

So my question was fully answered long ago, and after that this thread became a troll magnet, so if you want to lock it by all means go ahead..


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> Well, I titled this thread 'How many people can land feed?' which seemed a legitimate question to ask in a Prepping forum..
> And PF's finest stepped up to the plate (bless their little cotton sox) and answered throughout the first 8 pages, here's a summary of their awesome wisdom-
> 
> _JustAnotherNut- "5 acres isn't enough for anyone to survive a post apocolyptic world"
> Mad Trapper- "I don't think even one. On 5 acres"
> Real Old Man- "Back in the 60's we fed six adults and assorted visitors on a little over 8 acres"
> *******- "Impossible to say with what little info you provide. I've seen figures from 1/4 acre per person to 5 acres per person. Some folks, can get by on less than even that 1/4 acre..I'm guessing that I would need anywhere from 1/2 acre to 1 acre per person.."
> Smokeyquartz- "This is complicated..Humans have had this dilemma since forever"
> Paulag1955- "as ******* says, there are so many variables that's it's impossible to say"
> Czmead- "so many variables to account for"_
> 
> So my question was fully answered long ago, and after that this thread became a troll magnet, so if you want to lock it by all means go ahead..


It went stupid at post #32. Until then, most posts were good. Some were fantastic.


----------



## JustAnotherNut

Eyeball said:


> Right, as i've said before I know zilch about hunting, fishing, growing, cooking, women, livestock etc but hopefully i'll be able to recruit people into my Doomsday group who know how to do that stuff.
> Below- these poor slobs in Stargate Universe shuttled down to a lush fertile alien planet in summer (episode 'Faith') and it blew their socks off so much that they decided to stay.
> But when winter kicked in they were totally unprepared and unskilled, and all died, (bottom pic, episode 'Visitation')-
> (Their mothership had long gone so they couldn't shuttle back to it)


Just how many people do you think are going to recruit to join your group? People with those skillsets would view you as a liability. Just what do you have to bring to this imaginary scenario anyway? Stealing from others is only going to bring trouble to your group and get you and them killed.


----------



## SAR-1L

I can tell you, that at the rate I eat, I would be either eaten or exiled, just ask my wife. :vs_laugh:


----------



## Eyeball

JustAnotherNut said:


> ..Stealing from others is only going to bring trouble to your group and get you and them killed.


You must have got me mixed up with somebody else mate, my group won't do "steal"..


----------



## Eyeball

Denton said:


> It went stupid at post #32. Until then, most posts were good. Some were fantastic.


Oh right mate, now I see what's happened, in post #32 I posted pics of rioters and looters, and some PF members misunderstood by wrongly thinking I was advocating doing that..
The pics were simply meant to illustrate how people will be faced with starvation in a post-apoc world and go on violent sprees.
That's why this i started this thread to say we should GET OUT of the cities and set up in a place like Doomsday Hall.
Later when the plague and starvation has killed 99% of the world's population, THAT's when we can go and salvage what food we can from derelict deserted supermarkets with a clear conscience like this group in 'Survivors 1975' are doing rather than let the rats have it..


----------



## stevekozak

So, Eyeball, what is it you have done in life? For a living, that is? What career consumed you for the past 52 years or so? JustanotherNut's post reminded me that I don't think I have seen you post that. She brings up a very good point, in asking exactly you bring to the table in a SHTF scenario, for the benefit of a group? Please list the skills you offer to a group. We are aware that you have a vast experience with video games and obscure TV shows, and that you have a non-running fridge with some food supplies stacked in it. I am just asking for your actual physical and technical skills. Feel free to put them in list form.


----------



## Eyeball

stevekozak said:


> So, Eyeball, what is it you have done in life? For a living, that is? Please list the skills you offer to a group..


As i've said before I know zilch about guns, hunting, fishing, growing, cooking, women, livestock etc but hopefully i'll be able to recruit people into my Doomsday group who know how to do that stuff..
My only skills are in being able to see the Big Picture and thereby organising and planning and helping people adopt the correct winning mindset in real life and gaming. 
As I tell my wargaming recruits-
_*"Fight with your brain first and your weapons second"*_

As for work experience, I started off as a science lab assistant but eventually got fed up of the biology that it involved (too stomach-churning) and the chemistry (too stinky) and the physics (boring) so I drifted in and out of mostly unskilled jobs for many years but they all bored me just as much.
Jesus's young cousin John was the same, a world-rejecter living rough in the wilderness, sometimes going in town to yell insults at the snooty priests and rulers.
Jesus said- _"John is the greatest man ever to be born"_ (Matt 11:11)..


----------



## hawgrider

There's your sign boys and girls!



> 2. All Hat and No Cattle
> An empty boaster; a man who is all talk and no action.


----------



## Eyeball

Hey Hawg, the word on the street is that you're a crossbow hotshot; we'll need you at Doomsday Hall to bring down deer and things with your Raptor..


----------



## Chiefster23

Eyeball said:


> As i've said before I know zilch about guns, hunting, fishing, growing, cooking, women, livestock etc but hopefully i'll be able to recruit people into my Doomsday group who know how to do that stuff..
> My only skills are in being able to see the Big Picture and thereby organising and planning and helping people adopt the correct winning mindset in real life and gaming.
> As I tell my wargaming recruits-
> _*"Fight with your brain first and your weapons second"*[/
> 
> As for work experience, I started off as a science lab assistant but eventually got fed up of the biology that it involved (too stomach-churning) and the chemistry (too stinky) and the physics (boring) so I drifted in and out of mostly unskilled jobs for many years but they all bored me just as much.
> Jesus's young cousin John was the same, a world-rejecter living rough in the wilderness, sometimes going in town to yell insults at the snooty priests and rulers.
> Jesus said- "John is the greatest man ever to be born" (Matt 11:11).._


_

Eyeball. My guess is that after you have recruited all these highly skilled individuals into your survival group, they boot your unskilled non-contributing ass out. No sense feeding and protecting "rider" when the group could fill your slot with a "provider"._


----------



## hawgrider

Eyeball said:


> Hey Hawg, the word on the street is that you're a crossbow hotshot; we'll need you at Doomsday Hall to bring down deer and things with your Raptor..


I run Lone Wolf thanks anyway.


----------



## Eyeball

Incidentally I don't drive (never wanted or needed a car) so we'll need good drivers to drive us into the violent cities on foraging trips.
We found this one at a deserted abandoned army base..










Warning- it could get rough downtown..






We'll fix a big loudspeaker on its roof and blare this out-


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> Hey Hawg, the word on the street is that you're a crossbow hotshot; we'll need you at Doomsday Hall to bring down deer and things with your Raptor..


So, you bring no skills to the table yet you are having us believe that you'll bring together skilled people who will follow your instructions. 
You lift a drawing of some sort of farm that shows crops that won't be helpful for survival, a few sheep and isn't even indicative of your property. 
You talk about taking over abandoned property as your plan and then start building.

Those with skills and foresight won't need the leadership of an unskilled man bringing nothing to the table but fantasies and the desire to be a leader. Good luck, though.

By the way. I'd suggest reading those books and learning skills. SHTF time is on the time for on the job training.


----------



## Eyeball

Chiefster23 said:


> Eyeball. My guess is that after you have recruited all these highly skilled individuals into your survival group, they boot your unskilled non-contributing ass out. No sense feeding and protecting "rider" when the group could fill your slot with a "provider".


Like I said mate, my planning and organising skills are off the scale like all good generals, for example a Hall foraging briefing would go something like this-

_"We'll hit this abandoned gunshop first, then Walmart, then the Mall, then Willy Wonkas, then the video shop to pick up a Star Trek boxed set..." _


----------



## Eyeball

Denton said:


> So, you bring no skills to the table..


I don't like tooting my own horn mate, but we'll pick up a few tanks from a deserted army base then I can really strut my stuff..
Here's some feedback I get under my fighting name 'PoorOldSpike'-

_RocketMan- "PoorOldSpike is great guy to learn tank tactics from with unsurpassed file return times (it is like he is an AI or something with him returning files any time of the night or day).."
Hirr Leto- "PoorOldSpike is deranged, crazy and full of fight. POS will bring it like no other... tactically sound player and yes, 'very' dangerous with armour."
Enigma- "PoorOldSpike is great tactician, superb return rate and some really wonderful comments with them too. Well worth playing! Also a great teacher in helping you improve your own gameplay and a really good playtester.."
Fredrock- "PoorOldSpike is interesting Tactician, good player, really great Banter,got to give him a try.."
Von Schwendemann- "POS is excellent player with an outstanding return rate. If you haven't played him you are missing out. Have fun.."
Koen- "PoorOldSpike I must admit that you're crazy and something's totally wrong with you but you're honest and straight to the point.."
Lord Bane quote- "I have been playing the game for many years but have learned quite a bit about the game by reading your fantastic tactical posts."
The Coil- "PoorOldSpike is great when you want to understand the mechanics of the game"_


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> It's an important question i've been asking in survival forums for years but everybody seems to have a different opinion..
> 
> Suppose in a SHTF situation our survival group sets up in this deserted farmhouse below, what's the maximum number of people we should allow in the group to keep ourselves comfortably fed all year round? 10? 20? 30? More? Less?
> What do PF members think?


One. Me. Since I'm not in a group and have no family living in the area I'd have to go-it-alone. However, if I were in different circumstances I'd say that 20 seems like a nice, round number but 10 would probably work.


----------



## Eyeball

stevekozak said:


> ..We are aware that you have a vast experience with video games and obscure TV shows..


Thanks mate..
incidentally your name sounds Polish, 303 Polish squadron 'Kosciuszko' (below) claimed 126 kills in the Battle of Britain, they're the sort we'd want at the Hall..


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> Like I said mate, my planning and organising skills are off the scale like all good generals, for example a Hall foraging briefing would go something like this-
> 
> _"We'll hit this abandoned gunshop first, then Walmart, then the Mall, then Willy Wonkas, then the video shop to pick up a Star Trek boxed set..." _


Mmmmm ... Willie Wonka. Sounds delicious!


----------



## Denton

Yup. This is a farce of a thread. 
Peace Out.


----------



## Eyeball

Denton said:


> Yup. This is a farce of a thread.
> Peace Out.


Wait mate, I wish you and other honchos would tell us what skills you can bring to the Hall because in a post-apoc situation we'll need each other because there's strength in numbers..

_'Survivors 1975' clip-_


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## Elvis

Folks, EyeBall is a TROLL.

Stop feeding him. Stop posting to this thread.


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## Eyeball

*DOOMSDAY HALL JOBS*

Okay muchachos here's a new pic illustrating the various things we'll need to do around the Hall.
And for newcomers to this sensational thread here's the situation we find ourselves in-
A plague or asteroid strike has wiped out 99% of humanity, so we've moved out of the riot-torn starving cities and taken over this big deserted country house and thrown a barbed wire security perimeter around it.
Our survival group consists of around 15 to 25-ish members who hopefully have some survival skills.
Everybody will choose which of these jobs they feel like doing on a particular day, whatever floats their boat.
Feel free to post any comments or advice in this thread..


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## Elvis

Elvis said:


> Folks, EyeBall is a TROLL.
> 
> Stop feeding him. Stop posting to this thread.


Don't feed the TROLL.


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## Eyeball

Hey guys, if you're wondering why I give you 'Likes' whenever you call me a troll or try to spam up this thread, it's because I agree with Oscar Wilde when he said- 
_"If there's anything worse than being talked about, it's NOT being talked about".._

So please keep the spam coming, you've already helped take this sensational thread to a phenomenal 16 pages so far, thereby giving me bragging rights all around internetland.
As the Don might say- _"Look how Eyeballs threads go way off the popularity scale"._.-


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## Back Pack Hack




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## Eyeball

Incidentally my WW2 photothreads at Mission 4 Today have racked up over 11 million views so far..:vs_cool:

You spammers could go try to spam them up if you like but you'd be out on your butts inside 2 minutes because the Admin team are right on the ball over there..

PS- I think Don is pointing to the spike in the chart and saying- _"These are the amount of bullets you can expect to take if you go out dressed like a bullet-magnet in white jacket and orange ruck"_..


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## OrneryOldBat

******* said:


> Native Americans would construct rather large undergrown cache pits with grass lining, which would protect their food from freezing. I have a great book on native American gardening practices and food storage. It is called Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden.


My copy arrived on Friday and I'm about a quarter of the way through. Fascinating - thanks for the recommendation!


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## Denton

Enough of the nonsense and enough of the reported posts.


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