# The Fatima prophecies and warnings.



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

For those interested, this I (and most other _traditional _Catholics) believe was the most important event of the last century. The interview is from a while back, but the priest (rest in peace) was very knowledgeable and articulate and the interview well worth listening to.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Too long for me to watch all at once. Can you post where in the timeline of the video the most interesting parts are?

Interesting sidebar on the Fatima Apparition: Fatima was the name of Mohammed's (founder of Islam) daughter (one and only natural child), and both Catholics and Muslims have been visiting this site together for years. Ecumenicalism (one world religion) in the making.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Perhaps a synopsis? The Message of Fatima Written so quickly read, later to be researched if it strikes a cord. JMHO.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Bible Believers tend to think apparitions and flying saucers are of demonic origins.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I'll try to be as breaf as possible, which isn't easy when writing about Fatima. In 1917, three children were given three "secrets" by the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The first: she said the war (WW1) would be ending soon but if people didn't repent and start living better lives there would be another, worse war during the reign of Pius XI. She asked that Russia be consecrated to her Immaculate Heart.

The second secret was a vision of hell, "where poor sinners go", because there's no one to pray for them. Pray and make sacrifices for sinners.

The third secret was not supposed to be revealed until 1960. The Virgin Mary told the child Lucia that it would be better understood at that time.

Lucia became a Carmelite nun and upon the orders of her bishop she wrote down the third secret, which was sent to the Vatican. 1960 came and went, and the third secret wasn't revealed. The pope at that time, John XXIII, decided that the prophecy was "not for our time".

Pope JPII supposedly revealed the secret in its entirety in 2000, but there is much controversy as to whether or not the entire secret was revealed. Many believe only part has been shared. I won't go into the reasons, because you can look into it further here. Maybe a hundred prelates give or take had read the secret prior to 2000. Benedict XVI said the message of Fatima is the same as that of the Akita and La Salette visions and Revelation 12. These all warn of the coming chastisement and apostasy within the Church.

Boss Dog, you mention Islam. Unfortunately I think that perhaps the part of the third secret that was revealed by Pope JPII (below) describes what radical Islam will do at the Vatican.

"And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Beans and bullets isn't going to stop the end of the world. How you prepare for the end of the world is to become a Christian. So don't worry about it......


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Bible Believers tend to think apparitions and flying saucers are of demonic origins.


The Catholic Church has approved the Fatima apparition. Not all apparitions are approved and worthy of belief because yes, an apparition can be demonic.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I have been around enough Catholics to know your are most likely right about the approval thing. A lot of that stuff seems to require extensive indoctrination in order to believe it. I never did get to take any training on it.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Bottom line about the Fatima apparitions: either Russia is consecrated to the Immaculate Heart and there will be a period of peace in the world, or there will be a chastisement from God. Super ugly bad, but not the end. In the apparition, she says Russia will be consecrated, but it will be late.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> The second secret was a vision of hell, "where poor sinners go", because there's no one to pray for them.
> The third secret was not supposed to be revealed until 1960. The Virgin Mary told the child Lucia that it would be better understood at that time.
> 
> The pope at that time, John XXIII, decided that the prophecy was "not for our time".
> ...


SO If I get this right..

People can go to hell because there is nobody to pray for them! (I would like this explained in light of what Jesus taught about HOW to be saved)

Mary said to reveal the prophecy in 1960 but the pope disobeyed and did not reveal it.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

I guess that you have little understanding of the Prophecy of Fatima. Leaps of faith are things that defy explaination. Question do you think Adolph Hitler or Joe Stalin have anyone to pray for them?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Stick to the prophesy and do not turn this thread into Belfast, Bloody Friday.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I clicked on the link to read the prophesy and didn't understand the 3rd part. This was probably over my head and I have never claimed to be the sharpest tack in the box.

What I can tell you is that Saint Malachy, a 12th-century Archbishop of Armagh, Ireland predicted every pope until the last. By his description, he never missed one. We are at the last pope.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> SO If I get this right..
> 
> People can go to hell because there is nobody to pray for them! (I would like this explained in light of what Jesus taught about HOW to be saved)


We can pray for people to receive the grace necessary for conversion.



Maine-Marine said:


> Mary said to reveal the prophecy in 1960 but the pope disobeyed and did not reveal it.


That's right.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

What is the standard procedure for getting folks out of Purgatory? Or unbaptized babies out of Limbo?

How much does it cost to get someone out of purgatory?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> What is the standard procedure for getting folks out of Purgatory? Or unbaptized babies out of Limbo?
> 
> How much does it cost to get someone out of purgatory?


 I get that you have opinions about the Catholic theology. However if you want to debate religions, there are better places on the net to do it. With all due respect , I think I'll stick to the Fatima warnings and prophecy here.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> I get that you have opinions about the Catholic theology. However if you want to debate religions, there are better places on the net to do it. With all due respect , I think I'll stick to the Fatima warnings and prophecy here.


Thank you, Annie. I am glad someone is understanding the reason for this particular subforum and is trying to stick to it.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> SO If I get this right..
> 
> People can go to hell because there is nobody to pray for them! (I would like this explained in light of what Jesus taught about HOW to be saved)
> 
> Mary said to reveal the prophecy in 1960 but the pope disobeyed and did not reveal it.


Maine-Marine, the gospels and prophecies of Mary aren't exactly canonized in the Roman Catholic Religion. (the Knight's Templar burned for {heresy} allegiance to the feminine deity) So a Pope that didn't follow Mary's directions would be normal. If the directions had been issued by either "The Father, Son, or Holy Ghost" then the Pontiff would have had stronger (prophetic) mandate. Thus the Roman Catholic Church would have given more weight to what S would HTF in the prophecy, but Mary Magdalene has been at best a bit player from the moment that Constantine directed the original State (Roman) sponsored version of religion. Look what King James initiated when He didn't agree with Constantine's version!

So even the Holy Roman Church hedged on Mary's prediction of SHTF. Should you care to delve into an even more anti-feminine Religious viewpoint study the Koran, but I recommend that you pick up a Hebrew to English version of the Torah if you want to dig deeper into the Teachings that "Jesus" expounded upon. JMH Theological Opinion.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Actually, the apparition was Mary the mother of Jesus according to what I read, not Mary Magdalene.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> Actually, the apparition was Mary the mother of Jesus according to what I read, not Mary Magdalene.


That's right.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> I clicked on the link to read the prophesy and didn't understand the 3rd part. This was probably over my head and I have never claimed to be the sharpest tack in the box.
> 
> What I can tell you is that Saint Malachy, a 12th-century Archbishop of Armagh, Ireland predicted every pope until the last. By his description, he never missed one. We are at the last pope.


That's right. And check out the Lucia's description. 
_"And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

Right now in Rome there are two popes. Pope Francis and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. Some say BXVI was forced out. If that is truly the case--and I don't know that it is--then Francis isn't really our pope. If it's true, he would be an anti-pope. I'm not saying that's true, just that some in the hierarchy have claimed it's true. Whether it's true or not, it could explain the confusion the children had with regard to the vision, because they weren't really sure if it was indeed the pope, they only thought it was the pope._


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

inceptor said:


> Actually, the apparition was Mary the mother of Jesus according to what I read, not Mary Magdalene.


But why was Mary the Mother of Jesus so important to the line of David in the Israelite Religion? Royal Bloodline??? Direct linage of the Israelite Kings? Cliff-notes or less of the Roman Catholic Church? Which Mary was defiled by a Pontiff? Are both Mary's of the Royal Bloodline of the Israelite Kings? Or is it only the supposed spouse of "Jesus" that was a direct descendant of the line of Israelite Kings, and Mary the mother of "God" was just an immaculate conception? Which Mary was Historically of significance to the descendants of Israel???????? Your research may make you dig deeper than the philosophy of the Pagan Founder of the Roman Catholic Church. JMO.

Annie, name all the non-Nazi Party Pontiffs that have ever resigned from being the Pope?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

M118LR said:


> But why was Mary the Mother of Jesus so important to the line of David in the Israelite Religion? Royal Bloodline??? Direct linage of the Israelite Kings? Cliff-notes or less of the Roman Catholic Church? Which Mary was defiled by a Pontiff? Are both Mary's of the Royal Bloodline of the Israelite Kings? Or is it only the supposed spouse of "Jesus" that was a direct descendant of the line of Israelite Kings, and Mary the mother of "God" was just an immaculate conception? Which Mary was Historically of significance to the descendants of Israel???????? Your research may make you dig deeper than the philosophy of the Pagan Founder of the Roman Catholic Church. JMO.
> 
> Annie, name all the non-Nazi Party Pontiffs that have ever resigned from being the Pope?


1st and foremost, I am not a Catholic. I belong to no denomination but why should that matter????

2nd, the current image of Mary Magdaline was put forth by Pope Gregory in the 5th or 6th century. The Bible does say Jesus did cast 7 demons from her but no where in the Bible does it say she was a prostitute.

3rd a quote from Mary, the mother of Jesus ? WebBible Encyclopedia ? ChristianAnswers.Net
"As it is, however, the two genealogies show that both parents were descendants of David-Joseph through Solomon (Matthew 1:7-15), thus inheriting the legal right to the throne of David, and Mary through Nathan (Luke 3:23-31), her line thus carrying the seed of David, since Solomon's line had been refused the throne because of Jechoniah's sin" [Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Study Bible, note for Luke 3:23 (Iowa Falls, Iowa: World Publishing, Inc., 1995).]."



M118LR said:


> Are both Mary's of the Royal Bloodline of the Israelite Kings?


No. Only Mary mother of Jesus.



M118LR said:


> Or is it only the supposed spouse of "Jesus" that was a direct descendant of the line of Israelite Kings, and Mary the mother of "God" was just an immaculate conception?


Say what??? Spouse of Jesus??? No where does it say Jesus married in the Bible.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Annie, name all the non-Nazi Party Pontiffs that have ever resigned from being the Pope?


And what does this have to do with the prophesy?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

inceptor said:


> 1st and foremost, I am not a Catholic. I belong to no denomination but why should that matter????
> 
> 2nd, the current image of Mary Magdaline was put forth by Pope Gregory in the 5th or 6th century. The Bible does say Jesus did cast 7 demons from her but no where in the Bible does it say she was a prostitute.
> 
> ...


The bible is a pagan sourced (decreed) abomination of the teachings/direction of the doctrine of "Jesus of Nazareth". Once again, follow the money to the true source of Mary of Magdala's power/money. Perhaps why she was always present at "Jesus of Nazareth's" most referenced moments. Not to mention the focal point of everything that occurred after His Sacrifice. Thus the controversy as to the Bloodline of the Kings of Israel and the French Connection. :vs_shocked::vs_shocked:


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

M118LR said:


> The bible is a pagan sourced (decreed) abomination of the teachings/direction of the doctrine of "Jesus of Nazareth". Once again, follow the money to the true source of Mary of Magdala's power/money. Perhaps why she was always present at "Jesus of Nazareth's" most referenced moments. Not to mention the focal point of everything that occurred after His Sacrifice. Thus the controversy as to the Bloodline of the Kings of Israel and the French Connection. :vs_shocked::vs_shocked:


Ahhhh, so you want to discuss religion as a whole, not the topic of this thread, is that it?

And yes, if it matters, I AM aware of the story of Mary Magdaline and her child. But that is not the topic here.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

inceptor said:


> Ahhhh, so you want to discuss religion as a whole, not the topic of this thread, is that it?
> 
> And yes, if it matters, I AM aware of the story of Mary Magdaline and her child. But that is not the topic here.


The question was why the Pontiff decided not to relay the prophecy of doom as decreed by Mary. Perhaps I traveled a bit further along the road that didn't fit into the pagan emperors agenda? But the concepts intertwine. JMHO.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

M118LR said:


> The question was why the Pontiff decided not to relay the prophecy of doom as decreed by Mary. Perhaps I traveled a bit further along the road that didn't fit into the pagan emperors agenda? But the concepts intertwine. JMHO.


I believe the prophesy stated not until after 1960 and he could decide to publish it or not. By not publishing it he sealed the path the world would be on, if I read it correctly.

Why didn't he do it? I have no idea. I was alive then but he didn't consult me. I have no idea what he was thinking.

What I do believe is that this is the last Pope and he will assist in bringing in the end times. JMHO


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

With the sunrise comes a new day and a new beginning. Tomorrow is based upon what we do today. I shall never give up, so the end of times shall not begin until I have not a breath left in me to change tomorrow's starting point. You can believe that this is the last Pope, but he shall have to outlive me if your prophecy is to be fulfilled. JMHO.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

M118LR said:


> With the sunrise comes a new day and a new beginning. Tomorrow is based upon what we do today. I shall never give up, so the end of times shall not begin until I have not a breath left in me to change tomorrow's starting point. You can believe that this is the last Pope, but he shall have to outlive me if your prophecy is to be fulfilled. JMHO.


The end of the world as we know it could happen in January. Or it could happen sooner. Or it could happen later. I don't happen to be a prophet so I have no idea. I too will continue to do what I do, work and enjoy being with my wife. Oh yeah, I may have a hobby or two to keep me occupied.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> I believe the prophesy stated not until after 1960 and he could decide to publish it or not. By not publishing it he sealed the path the world would be on, if I read it correctly.
> 
> Why didn't he do it? I have no idea. I was alive then but he didn't consult me. I have no idea what he was thinking.
> 
> What I do believe is that this is the last Pope and he will assist in bringing in the end times. JMHO


I have no idea if this is the last pope. The pope at the time was John XXIII and he directly disobeyed the Queen of Heaven by not publishing the third secret.

M118LR, I'm sorry I don't understand. A lot of what you're writing makes no sense to me. It sounds like perhaps you've been reading "The Da Vinci Code", which is completely fictional. But I'll leave it at that and stick to the Fatima prophecy.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Annie, the point is that the Roman Catholic Church is male biased. Female Prophecies, even the accepted ones, haven't been acted upon without Church scrutiny. (It didn't end well for Joan of Arc) As to "The Da Vinci Code" Dan Brown drew upon " Holy Blood, Holy Grail" (1982) which is advanced by "Bloodline of the Holy Grail: The Hidden Lineage of Jesus Revealed" (1996). If the Church hadn't banned "Holy Blood,Holy Grail" in certain countries, perhaps the topic of centuries of discrediting Females and what their actual role was in Jesus of Nazareth's teaching would have subsided. So after centuries of discrediting how important a role Females actually played, is it any wonder that the Fatima Prophecy was not carried out faithfully by the Pontiff. Is it fair to assume that even till this day the Roman Catholic Church might not have divulged the entire prophecy? I wouldn't say it's impossible, especially with the centuries of past history. But the Fatima Prophecy places the Pontiff in the sacrificial role of Jesus of Nazareth, (at least as the released version reads) and Two Angels will ordain those following the sacrifice. So while the Pontiffs role as "Gods" representative on earth is strengthened, the Angels role isn't within the established route to Heaven. Only the "Holy See" has the honest answer.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

M118LR, I'll reply to the part of your post that pertains to Fatima. In order to keep the thread on track I'll skip the rest. :vs_smile: If you want to get further into that Dan Brown stuff, I'd suggest you go over to Catholic Answers Forum. I trust if you do, you'll get a lot of replies.



M118LR said:


> But the Fatima Prophecy places the Pontiff in the sacrificial role of Jesus of Nazareth, (at least as the released version reads)


Why do you think so? In the vision, the Holy Father may be one of many martyrs [a person who dies for Christ] perhaps, but not in place of Christ. Let's look at it again.

"And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

So the way I see it, he is one of many martyrs.



M118LR said:


> the Angels role isn't within the established route to Heaven. Only the "Holy See" has the honest answer.


I'm not really sure what you mean. Could you please explain a little further?



> M118LR: Female Prophecies, even the accepted ones, haven't been acted upon without Church scrutiny.


Oh, this sort of pertains to the prophecies indirectly. There are more female mystics of the Church than male. And two out of the three Fatima children were female, not that it necessarily matters to me, but maybe to you it does.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

I'm not willing to concede that the version we are discussing is in fact an unaltered complete original transcript. 

Why are all those in the big city labeled as corpses, and why is the Holy Father prying for their souls?

Who is the first person to be martyred at the foot of the big cross? The Holy Father.

It is only after the demise of the Holy Father that those of religion that followed the Holy Father become martyrs.

Martyrdom is not the path that allows you access within the pearly gates according to the Roman Catholic Doctrine. Only acceptance that the Son of God has sacrificed His life to absolve your sins shall allow you access.

Are there any other examples of Angels needing to mark the souls of the martyred? Does following the Holy Father into death make you a martyr? Or is it your belief in the Son of God and your devotion to His calling that makes you a martyr?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Thought yall wanted to stick with chatting about what the Queen of Heaven had to say about the future? Sounds like the choo choo has jumped the tracks into some pretty deep Roman Catholic Theology 101. Hope yall aint baking her any cakes. That seems to really get the Big Guy riled up. 
Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women kneed the dough to make cakes to the Queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me unto anger.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

> Martyrdom is not the path that allows you access within the pearly gates according to the Roman Catholic Doctrine. Only acceptance that the Son of God has sacrificed His life to absolve your sins shall allow you access.


If someone dies for Christ they go straight to Heaven according to Catholic doctrine.



> Are there any other examples of Angels needing to mark the souls of the martyred? Does following the Holy Father into death make you a martyr? Or is it your belief in the Son of God and your devotion to His calling that makes you a martyr?


_"Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

_
"The blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church."-2nd-century Church Father Tertullian


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Dying for Christ isn't the same as following the Holy Father (Pontiff) to his death. 

The use of an allegory won't change the path into the pearly gates.

The prophecy diverges drastically from the accepted teachings of the church, as it relates to the acceptance of the Sacrifice of Christ being the key to the Gates of Heaven. Perhaps that was another consideration which lead to the Pontiffs divergence from the directions of the prophecy? If there is a route other than the Sacrifice of Christ, the entire foundation of Catholicism crumbles. But perhaps the secret of the third part of the prophecy is that following the direction of the Pontiff isn't the same as following the Christ. Without the Sacrifice of the Christ, there would be no Pontiff. Without a Pontiff would the Sacrifice of Christ change? Do you think that the hierarchy of the Established Church would differ from offering such a concept? At what time should such a heretic concept be understood without undermining the Pontiffs role?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Pardon this protestant's lack of understanding of Catholicism, but is this about the Fatima prophesy or is it a theological debate?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Sorry Denton, the Fatima prophesy isn't as clear as the 2ond amendment, but both seem to mean different things to different people reading them. I'll stand down.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Bottom line, I appreciate you Protestants (or whatever you are) love the Lord and that's a good thing. Keep following Our Lord as best you can, we'll need Him in the days to come. 

I don't think we're headed for the end times just yet for a couple reasons, but I think we (the West) will see a major chastisement in our time, then a period of relative peace. That's the Fatima message.

First off, Our Lady (my Lady?) said that the consecration would be done, but it would be late. 

Secondly, Apocalypse warns that when the anti-christ appears on the scene, he will have an answer to solve our world problems. (Dan. 11:43; Rev. 13:16-17) There's no one in the world today who can solve all our problems. If there were, he'd come forward.

Edit to add: We are already seeing the Chastisement in places like Iraq where Christians are having their heads lopped off and nun are being shot and having their heads crushed by ISIS.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Pardon this protestant's lack of understanding of Catholicism, but is this about the Fatima prophesy or is it a theological debate?


Well if it is an attempt to spark a theological debate between Catholics and Protestants will say its pointless. Most Scripture Catholics accept as literal..Proestants take as figurative and vice versa. So far the participants seem content to be debating each other.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Annie said:


> Bottom line, I appreciate you Protestants (or whatever you are) love the Lord and that's a good thing. Keep following Our Lord as best you can, we'll need Him in the days to come.


Whatever you are probably is what I am. :laugh: But I will keep on keepin on.



Annie said:


> I don't think we're headed for the end times just yet for a couple reasons, but I think we (the West) will see a major chastisement in our time, then a period of relative peace. That's the Fatima message.
> 
> First off, Our Lady (my Lady?) said that the consecration would be done, but it would be late.
> 
> Secondly, Apocalypse warns that when the anti-christ appears on the scene, he will have an answer to solve our world problems. (Dan. 11:43; Rev. 13:16-17) There's no one in the world today who can solve all our problems. If there were, he'd come forward.


I do believe what Mary said. By not publishing the 3rd prophecy the Pope set the path. That was my understanding anyhow.

As to the Apocalypse there are several things that have to happen before he (the anti-christ) makes an appearance. There are things he will be doing behind the scenes. You will know the beginning when there is a 7 year peace agreement between Israel and Arab states. I am wondering if that is when the temple will be rebuilt.
*
Daniel 9:27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.

Matthew 24:15-16 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains*

As of right now, this may or may not be within our life time.



Annie said:


> Edit to add: We are already seeing the Chastisement in places like Iraq where Christians are having their heads lopped off and nun are being shot and having their heads crushed by ISIS.


Can't argue this point. But, please understand, I am not here to argue the points of merit on any denomination. I am only interested in finding the truth no matter where it lays. There is still much to learn.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> I do believe what Mary said. By not publishing the 3rd prophecy the Pope set the path. That was my understanding anyhow.


Yes, he did. Unfortunately 1960's, is when the societal floor dropped out. That's where that path has led and continues to lead us today. Whatever the unpublished part of the third secret is, it was so horrible and unbelievable to the Holy Father that he called the Fatima children "prophets of doom and gloom". Prior to 1960, the Catholic Church was strong and orders were sent from the top and followed throughout the hierarchy. That structure no longer exists post Vatican II. As prophecy has warned, "cardinals will oppose cardinals, bishops will turn against bishops, the good will be martyred and the holy father will have much to suffer". Do we see this today, and how! Between what Pope Pius XII and Benedict XVI (Then Cardinal Ratzinger) had to say about the third secret, it was about apostasy in the Church. Pope Paul VI lamented that "The smoke of satan has entered the Church". How did that happen? It's been pretty well documented the Communists infiltrated the Church in the 50's. Many claim that the Church has also been infiltrated by Free Masons.



> As to the Apocalypse there are several things that have to happen before he (the anti-christ) makes an appearance. There are things he will be doing behind the scenes. You will know the beginning when there is a 7 year peace agreement between Israel and Arab states. I am wondering if that is when the temple will be rebuilt.
> *
> Daniel 9:27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.
> 
> ...


 Have you seen this? It was published back in 2014. That'll make the heifer 3 years old and ready for sacrifice in 2017. Red Heifer Found in America
Finding a red heifer is like finding a needle in a hay stack. But early this week some overly industrious Jew managed to do just that in the United States of America.

This finding is all the more intriguing considering that on the coming Sabbath (Shabbat) Jews will read in the synagogues the Torah portion that begins with one of the mysterious commandment of the Red Heifer: "Tell the Israelites to procure for you a red heifer that is free from every blemish and defect and on which no yoke has ever been laid&#8230;" (Num. 19:2ff).

The Red Heifer is an extremely rare creature. According to Jewish tradition, during the two thousand years from the time this commandment was given until the destruction of the Second Temple in the first century AD, only nine red cows that met the biblical criteria were ever found.

For a cow to be a Red Heifer it has to be without blemish, one that was never put to work and completely reddish. Jewish law requires keeping the young cow under strict care until it reaches three years old. During this time, leaning on the cow, riding it even once or even putting a piece of cloth on its back disqualifies it from becoming a Red Heifer.

Strict rules also apply to its color. Two single hairs of a color other than red automatically disqualify it from becoming a Red Heifer. A Red Heifer candidate that that was discovered in 2000 was disqualified after two black hairs were found on it.

Likewise, a cow that meets all other criteria, but is older than four is disqualified. The present calf has a long way until, if at all, it will become a real Red Heifer.

In biblical times, the Red Heifer was to be completely burnt by a priest outside the Temple. Interestingly enough, the Red Heifer was burnt on the Mount of Olives, where the Dominus Flevit [The Lord Cried] Church is located today.

After being burnt, the Red Heifer's ashes were mixed with water called the "water of remission," which was used to purify people, especially those defiled by touching dead animals. This most serious form of defilement required Jews to undergo a ceremonial cleansing with the ash of a Red Heifer before they could again enter the Temple courtyards. In other words, without the Red Heifer, Jewish worship on the Temple Mount is not possible.

The discovery of a red calf that could potentially become a Red Heifer excites many Jews who believe that Moses prepared the first Red Heifer and Messiah will prepare the last one.

The possibility of finding a real Red Heifer prompted the Temple Institute to make the logistic preparations needed for bringing the American calf to Israel and to train priests that will perform this sacred and rare sacrificial ceremony.

At least in theory, this calf could help Jews sufficiently purify themselves to engage in real Temple activities. For now, however, believers will have to chew their nails for at least two and a half years before it will be known whether or not this import is the Red Heifer.
Can't argue this point. But, please understand, I am not here to argue the points of merit on any denomination. I am only interested in finding the truth no matter where it lays. There is still much to learn.[/QUOTE]



> Can't argue this point. But, please understand, I am not here to argue the points of merit on any denomination. I am only interested in finding the truth no matter where it lays. There is still much to learn.


Me, too. Admittedly I'm a strict Catholic girl, but I'm not intending to break the rules on this forum.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

See? I'm still learning here. I had no idea (or if I did I forgot it years ago) about the Red Heifer. So we could be closer than I thought to the Temple being rebuilt.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Red Heifer has been ready to rumble for years. Grandparents come from Mississippi. 
The Red Heifer


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

"I am worried by the Blessed Virgin's messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a Divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul&#8230;I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the true Faith of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past."-- Pope Pius XII

_*Pope Francis said on Sunday that Christians and the Roman Catholic Church should seek forgiveness from gay people for the way they had treated them.
*_
"I think that the Church not only should apologise ... to a gay person whom it offended but it must also apologise to the poor as well, to the women who have been exploited, to children who have been exploited by (being forced to) work. It must apologise for having blessed so many weapons."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ays-christians-should-apologise-to-gay-people


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Pardon my French Ma'am, but I could care less what any Pope has to say about gays or anything else for that matter. I am a Christian and he and his long running hidden agenda's deserve only my watchful eye.

Beware many dark secrets will be revealed as this worldwide plot continues to unfold.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Pardon my French Ma'am, but I could care less what any Pope has to say about gays or anything else for that matter. I am a Christian and he and his long running hidden agenda's deserve only my watchful eye.
> 
> Beware many dark secrets will be revealed as this worldwide plot continues to unfold.


Lucky for you, you don't have to follow this thread. You could start one of your own about something you're more interested in. Have a nice day!


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> Lucky for you, you don't have to follow this thread. You could start one of your own about something you're more interested in. Have a nice day!


I want to follow this thread as I always do (one of my favs). As a result, I will join you in the dialogue and will state that I hold no allegiance to any man nor are dependent on any man (Pope included) to interpret the Bible nor be my intercessory to my God.

For the record though, I fail to see what your last post has to do with the topic of this thread titled "Fatima Prophesies and Warnings". Perhaps you should start a thread titled "Here is what I read that the Pope told me to do."

Let's both have a nice day.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I've tried to understand the Catholic church and have failed miserably. 

My Grandfather (US) and Gr. Grandfather (Italy then US) led devoted Catholic families...as generations before them did. My Dad marrys a Lutheren girl (my Mother) and the Catholic Church kicks my Dad out?!? Dad never had much use for "the church" after that. 

As far as the current pope? I believe him to be evil (and possibly) a part of Satan's army. I pray for many Catholics.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean that they can not participate in a thread you started. Part of a discussion is opposing views and interpretation.



> fo·rum
> [ˈfôrəm]
> NOUN
> a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged:
> ...


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Sorry Auntie, I've stood down by popular request. You are a bit to late. JMHO.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

M118, yes I am late and I apologize for that.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Auntie said:


> M118, yes I am late and I apologize for that.


No apologies required. But I Thank You for the consideration. Carry On. :lol:


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I love Roman Catholics but their Theology drives me nuts. How do people start believing all that non sense?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Annie said:


> "I am worried by the Blessed Virgin's messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a Divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul&#8230;I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the true Faith of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past."-- Pope Pius XII
> 
> _*Pope Francis said on Sunday that Christians and the Roman Catholic Church should seek forgiveness from gay people for the way they had treated them.
> *_
> ...


I do believe this is part of the prophecy. I also believe there were parts of the prophecy that weren't published because of internal concerns.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

All right Bigwheel, I'll bite. However, understand that is only my opinion from being a lifelong student of many things especially religious studies. I have nothing to back it up besides observation and an understanding of human nature.

I do not believe many become Catholics by converted because of theology and conviction reasons.
Many do so because of marriage or other related issues, however, the question remains are they only Catholic by name only?
Most devout Catholics seem to be following a tradition, usually for generations in their respective families.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

inceptor said:


> I also believe there were parts of the prophecy that weren't published because of internal concerns.


Here is a good question inceptor, care to swing at this fastball?

Is "internal concerns" the same thing as determining that some books were not deemed worthy to be canonized, therefore inclusive in the King James Bible?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> Most devout Catholics seem to be following a tradition, usually for generations in their respective families.


That's been my observation. But I am also not affiliated with any church. My belief in God though is steadfast.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> I do believe this is part of the prophecy. I also believe there were parts of the prophecy that weren't published because of internal concerns.


That's right. The prophecy was a warning against the suicide of altering the faith, and Russia was supposed to have been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart, but the popes have failed to do this. These apparitions took place during wwI, and Our Lady predicted a worse war would come wwII. She asked for the conversion of Russia when Russia was basically nothing on the world scene, she told this to these three little children, before the pontificate of Pius XI had even begun--he wasn't even pope.

_"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.

"To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world."

_


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Auntie said:


> Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean that they can not participate in a thread you started. Part of a discussion is opposing views and interpretation.


He doesn't have to agree with me and everybody's welcome here, if they want to be here. Just didn't sound like he did. :tango_face_smile:

Edit to add: I'm only here to talk about Fatima, not to debate religion. A I said previously, there are better places for that on the internet. We're not supposed to debate religion, only to discuss prophesies here on this forum.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> He doesn't have to agree with me and everybody's welcome here, if they want to be here. Just didn't sound like he did. :tango_face_smile:
> 
> Edit to add: I'm only here to talk about Fatima, not to debate religion. A I said previously, there are better places for that on the internet. We're not supposed to debate religion, only to discuss prophesies here on this forum.


I appreciate your permission and warm welcome, however if that is your intent you should stick to the topic of Fatima. FYI - *He* (as you call him) preps for many reasons, however spiritual preparedness is a priority in these prophesized times. *He* also lobbied for the inclusion of this "SHTF in Prophesy" section on this board. It seems to be a surprise to you, but many of us do not need to utilize another human or a Pope as their intercessory to God. We find great comfort in letting the Holy Spirit perform his function with us after we are "born again" as an integral part of the Trinity.

That should clarify my previous comments for you.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> I appreciate your permission and warm welcome, however if that is your intent you should stick to the topic of Fatima. FYI - *He* (as you call him) preps for many reasons, however spiritual preparedness is a priority in these prophesized times. *He* also lobbied for the inclusion of this "SHTF in Prophesy" section on this board. It seems to be a surprise to you, but many of us do not need to utilize another human or a Pope as their intercessory to God. We find great comfort in letting the Holy Spirit perform his function with us after we are "born again" as an integral part of the Trinity.
> 
> That should clarify my previous comments for you.


I understand that you don't like or need the pope, Watchman. I respect your choices and don't mean any offense to you. I agree spiritual preparedness is important. What's happening these days, Catholic or Protestant is that doctrines are being changed. That's what we're seeing here. That's a big part of the Fatima warning.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Benedict XVI said the message of Fatima is essentially the same as that given at Akita, Japan in the 1970's, when Our Lady appeared to a Sr. Agnes.

It was on Saturday, October 13, the anniversary day of the last Apparition of the Virgin Mary to the three children of Fatima, that Mary gave to Sister Agnes Her third Message, the most important and serious one:
“If men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the Bishops and the priests.
“The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.
“The demon will be especially implacable against the souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of My sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will no longer be pardon for them.
“...Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able to still save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in Me will be saved.”


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Most devout Catholics seem to be following a tradition, usually for generations in their respective families.


Most of the Novus Odro (Modern Mass churches) don't pay any attention to Fatima. Some do, but traditional Catholics (old Latin Mass churches) take Fatima very seriously. It is a private revelation. Catholics aren't obliged to believe it in the same way as a public revelation, but it is approved by the church, meaning there's nothing harmful or contrary to the faith found in it. Traditional catholics try to keep things as they have been handed down over the centuries.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Has Russia spread her errors to the USA and the rest of the world, as Sr. Lucia said? I think so. Communism isn't dead. It's just gone underground. Look at how well our beloved country has mirrored Russia's enslavement tactics. As Fatima speaker John Salza has pointed out, under Obama we now see a 'provison making it a felony to protest in publicly, declaration of mashal law in times of peace, FEMA camps on us soil. detention of citizens without due process'. Also, atheisism has spread.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

More on how Russia has spread her errors.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> All right Bigwheel, I'll bite. However, understand that is only my opinion from being a lifelong student of many things especially religious studies. I have nothing to back it up besides observation and an understanding of human nature.
> 
> I do not believe many become Catholics by converted because of theology and conviction reasons.
> Many do so because of marriage or other related issues, however, the question remains are they only Catholic by name only?
> Most devout Catholics seem to be following a tradition, usually for generations in their respective families.


Not sure who had this nice message rat holed all this time..but will agree. I know several folks who got converted over to Catholics because of marrying a cute little Senorita. Smart thinking on that. The other ones get brainwashed at an early age.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Not sure who had this nice message rat holed all this time..but will agree. I know several folks who got converted over to Catholics because of marrying a cute little Senorita. Smart thinking on that. The other ones get brainwashed at an early age.


This has nothing to do with the Fatima prophecies, your post has only to do with maligning the faith--the true faith--on a forum that's not set up for religious debate. That's the problem. I'm begining to see that the name of the forum ought to be "SHTF hits the fan in _Evangelical_ Prophecy." I'm begining to see the utter futility in posting on the board because of this sort of reply, then I'm not supposed to get into the debate mode. It's useless. The preppers here aren't Catholic, so you're sceptical. I can understand that. You're looking at it from the context that I'm not a 'bible only' type of girl so it's got to be wrong. The Catholics (by en large) aren't, prepping although the traditional ones know what's coming. So odd...I try to tell them and they're like "Oh, God will provide". The preppers here aren't Catholic. I like you all well enough on the other boards, just not on this "SHTF in Prophecy" board. So I'm better off talking about Fatima elsewhere in Catholic cyberspace because they have the background and context right. You don't, so I get nothig out of it but "Catholicism is wrong". And you don't want to know about Fatima either and there's too many like that here. I don't have the time to waste. But anyways, no hard feelings. I don't care to waste my time. Chow, boys!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)




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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

Not to start a bitter bea-oche fight but didn't the caltholic church also say you can buy a dead realitive a place in heaven?
Seems they didn't follow the apparitions instruction it said 1960 it wasn't the church or popes decision it was the messenger from God was it not? 
They can not even follow simple instructions from God, no wonder we are all screwed up.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Some aspects of Roman Catholic theology is totally nuts. Good point. Check out their roots sometimes. Leads right back to the Tower of Babble. Lot of links out there anybody want to study up on it. This link seems fairly plausible as a starting place. 
Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz (Forerunner Commentary) - Bible Tools


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> Not to start a bitter bea-oche fight but didn't the caltholic church also say you can buy a dead realitive a place in heaven?
> Seems they didn't follow the apparitions instruction it said 1960 it wasn't the church or popes decision it was the messenger from God was it not?
> They can not even follow simple instructions from God, no wonder we are all screwed up.


Nooo, show mw where from official Catholic souches you get this so called 'teaching'.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Some aspects of Roman Catholic theology is totally nuts. Good point. Check out their roots sometimes. Leads right back to the Tower of Babble. Lot of links out there anybody want to study up on it. This link seems fairly plausible as a starting place.
> Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz (Forerunner Commentary) - Bible Tools


Nope, the Catholic faith leads right back to Jesus Christ. It's the Church He founded through the Apostles.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Or the church the Romans founded around the apostles to capitalize on the movement...........?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> Or the church the Romans founded around the apostles to capitalize on the movement...........?


Actually she is correct. Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. NIV

Now what happened later on down the road I can't say I agree with but Jesus did say that.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Or the church the Romans founded around the apostles to capitalize on the movement...........?


No, the popes all died martyrs right up until the time of Constantine 312 AD. The Apostles, save St. John and the traitor Judas were all martyred in the first century. 
Frequently Asked Questions: Which of the 12 apostles were martyred?
Andrew: Martyrdom by crucifixion (bound, not nailed, to a cross).
Bartholomew (Often identified with Nathaniel in the New Testament): Martyrdom by being either Beheaded, or Flayed alive and crucified, head downward.
James the Greater: Martyrdom by being beheaded or stabbed with a sword.
James the Lesser: Martyrdom by being thrown from a pinnacle of the Temple at Jerusalem , then stoned and beaten with clubs.
John: Died of old age.
Jude (Often identified with Thaddeus in the New Testament): Martyrdom by being beaten to death with a club.
Judas: Suicide.
Matthew: Martyrdom by being burned, stoned, or beheaded.
Peter: Martyrdom by crucifixion at Rome with his head downwards.
Philip: Martyrdom.
Simon: Martyrdom by crucifixion or being sawn in half.
Thomas: Martyrdom by being stabbed with a spear.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

inceptor said:


> Actually she is correct. Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. NIV
> 
> Now what happened later on down the road I can't say I agree with but Jesus did say that.


Well us mean old Protestant's believe the implications of the passage in question involve Peters "confession" of Jesus being the Son of God as the Rock upon which Christ would build His Church...not on poor old Peter himself. He was a basket case up until the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came and filled him. Prior to that he denied Christ three times..cut off the centurions ear etc. If a person ever wants to do some research on the topic of popery..some forged documents called the psudo isodorian directals would bear looking at. They were very helpful in under girding the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Chruch. 
Isidorian Decretals


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Well us mean old Protestant's believe the implications of the passage in question involve Peters "confession" of Jesus being the Son of God as the Rock upon which Christ would build His Church...not on poor old Peter himself. He was a basket case up until the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came and filled him. Prior to that he denied Christ three times..cut off the centurions ear etc. If a person ever wants to do some research on the topic of popery..some forged documents called the psudo isodorian directals would bear looking at. They were very helpful in under girding the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Chruch.
> Isidorian Decretals


Christ told Simon Peter that his name would thereafter be Rock, translated it meant Peter. "Thou art Rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church."

Prior to that, only God Himself was called Rock. When God gives a new name to someone, it's because his status is changed.The place where Our Lord renamed Peter was Caesarea Philipi, alongside a huge rock wall. That was to emphasize His point. 
And yes, Peter was a sinner, just like the rest of the Apostles. God chooses the weak to confound the wise. After the resurection, Our Lord asked him three times, "Do you love me?" Three times he answered "yes" and Jesus told him to "Feed My sheep".

Peter had a prominant position right from the start. He was the only one who generally spoke for the Apostles. He is almost always named first. He was the first to preach at Pentecost. He was the first pope.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Well us mean old Protestant's believe the implications of the passage in question involve Peters "confession" of Jesus being the Son of God as the Rock upon which Christ would build His Church...not on poor old Peter himself. He was a basket case up until the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came and filled him. Prior to that he denied Christ three times..cut off the centurions ear etc. If a person ever wants to do some research on the topic of popery..some forged documents called the psudo isodorian directals would bear looking at. They were very helpful in under girding the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Chruch.
> Isidorian Decretals


So which religion/denomination do you believe is the true one? For you see, Catholics are Christian also.

Merriam-Webster: 
Simple Definition of Christian

: a person who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ

And are you telling me the Holy Spirit didn't have any effect on Peter? What about what Jesus asked Peter at the end? You should read John 21:15-19

I'm not defending the Catholic Church and I am not a Catholic. But if Jesus put his faith in Peter, who am I to argue?


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

Annie said:


> Nope, the Catholic faith leads right back to Jesus Christ. It's the Church He founded through the Apostles.


Jesus Christ was Jewish


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

King of the Jews..or so it said on the sign attached to His Cross. Dont think he ever met any popes. Now pretty sure Him and Saint Mother Teresa are pals.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Targetshooter said:


> Jesus Christ was Jewish


and he and his followers would not recognize the catholic church's ceremonies and rites and by their (The apostles) writings they sure would not understand the adoration given to Mary


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

in this verse

Mat 16:18 AndG1161 I say alsoG2504 G3004 unto thee,G4671 ThatG3754 thouG4771 artG1488 Peter,G4074 andG2532 uponG1909 thisG5026 rockG4073 I will buildG3618 myG3450 church;G1577 andG2532 the gatesG4439 of hellG86 shall notG3756 

notice that the Peter and Rock are not the same word. 

so it does not say "your name is rock and on this rock I will build my church "

it says you are peter (A small piece of a rock(masculine)) and on this Rock (Massive rock (feminine word))... now remember a few verses down Jesus calls Peter Satan! 

Jesus was not saying that the church was going to be built on peter..that would be crazy, since Jesus said He (Jesus) was the truth way life....

If the church movement was designed to have a one world leader (besides Jesus)... I think Jesus would have said so.. instead he said I will send another... the Holy Spirit to guide US...

There are many Catholics that are saved..but even more that are in trouble because they refuse to be Bereans... 

Our goal should be to glorify God in all things... And we do that Through surrender to Jesus Christ! 

Reading the bible we can easily see how the early church met and functioned... compare that to ANY church in operation today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Boy ..... this "when the Fat Lady Sings" stuff can get really deep sometimes!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Targetshooter said:


> Jesus Christ was Jewish


Jesus is the fulfillment of the Jewish religion, aka Christianity. Christians are "followers of the Christ."


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Boy ..... this "when the Fat Lady Sings" stuff can get really deep sometimes!


Hey, who you calling fat?!?! :tango_face_wink:


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^^^ My kind of gal!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> and he and his followers would not recognize the catholic church's ceremonies and rites and by their (The apostles) writings....


Would they recognize your Protestant worship service?

The first Mass was on Holy Thursday at the Lord's supper. Yes, they would recognize that. You can go back to the earliest records and see the Mass. Over the centuries, the Mass has been deepened in symbolism and tradition, but the meaning of it has never changed. It's called organic development.

These below all wrote about it. Check it out.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Liturgy of the Mass
Clement of Rome wrote of it (d. about 101) 
Justin Martyr (d. c. 167)
St. Cyprian (d. 258)
(Tertullian, 274)


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> .... they sure would not understand the adoration given to Mary


Adoration is worship. We don't worship the Blessed Mother. Veneration is the correct term for the honor we give to Our Lady. We venerate her. The Bible states, "All generations shall call me blessed." Our Lord gave her to us while he was hanging on the cross. 'Woman behold your son...' If you belong to Christ, she is your mother. The Lord God says, "Honor your father and mother. So how do you honor her?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> in this verse
> 
> Mat 16:18 AndG1161 I say alsoG2504 G3004 unto thee,G4671 ThatG3754 thouG4771 artG1488 Peter,G4074 andG2532 uponG1909 thisG5026 rockG4073 I will buildG3618 myG3450 church;G1577 andG2532 the gatesG4439 of hellG86 shall notG3756
> 
> ...


But Christ didn't speak to the disciples in Greek. He spoke to them in Aramaic. The word for rock in Aramaic is kepha. In that language the word is is the same whether it's used for a literal rock or for a man's name. So the translator could use it for the second appearance of kepha, but for the first, he was talking about a man, so it wasn't appropriate, which is how we get Petros, a word meaning small stone. In English as in the original Aramaic it makes more sense as it does too in the French where both words (man's name and rock) are the same.



> now remember a few verses down Jesus calls Peter Satan!
> 
> Jesus was not saying that the church was going to be built on peter..that would be crazy, since Jesus said He (Jesus) was the truth way life....
> In heaven and earth, and even in hell, there is a hierarchy. God has ordained it to be this way.
> ...


There's a hierarchy in both heaven and earth, and actually even in hell, there is a hierarchy. God ordained things to be this way. All must submit to Our Lord Jesus first and foremost, granted you're right about that. In the natural family, there's a hierarchy. The father is the head of the household. The mother is under his (hopefully loving) authority, and under them both are the children. The Church is no different. There's a hierarchy, because God wanted one, holy catholic (meaning world-wide) and apostolic Church.



> There are many Catholics that are saved.


 We ain't saved until we gets to heaven.



> but even more that are in trouble because they refuse to be Bereans...


Many protestants, too!



> Our goal should be to glorify God in all things... And we do that Through surrender to Jesus Christ!
> 
> Reading the bible we can easily see how the early church met and functioned... compare that to ANY church in operation today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Amen. Don't get me wrong, because my Catholic Church is a mess right now. The Bride of Christ is going through her passion, just as Our Lord did.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

So let me get this straight. Jesus told Peter he would deny 3 times before the rooster crows and Peter did. He was so ashamed he ran off and hid for quite a while. When he did return, if memory serves, he really didn't speak much.

And after the resurrection, Jesus said to Peter in John 21:15-19 15 *When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?" "Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my lambs." 16 Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep." 17 The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. 18 Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." 19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!" 
*
So you're saying Jesus was kidding, right?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> But Christ didn't speak to the disciples in Greek. He spoke to them in Aramaic.


So why did the apostle use two different words in greek... if Matthew had understood it to be the same word why did he change it???? ponder that. AND we have no idea what Word Jesus used accept we read the bible!!!!! So please do not tell me what word He used in Aramaic ,,, you do not know
So are you telling me that the church was built on PETER the Apostles



Annie said:


> We ain't saved until we gets to heaven.


really???

I never should have gotten involved in a discussion with a catholic. Most of you all are so blind you can not see past your noses...

I am not a rabid anti-catholic.. I am however for truth... and frankly the catholic church is NOT the true bride of Christ. Sorry


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> So let me get this straight. Jesus told Peter he would deny 3 times before the rooster crows and Peter did. He was so ashamed he ran off and hid for quite a while. When he did return, if memory serves, he really didn't speak much.
> 
> And after the resurrection, Jesus said to Peter in John 21:15-19 15 *When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?" "Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my lambs." 16 Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep." 17 The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. 18 Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." 19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!"
> *
> So you're saying Jesus was kidding, right?


Not sure what the point is here

he told all the disciples to go and make Disciples.... IE feed the sheep...


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Not sure what the point is here
> 
> he told all the disciples to go and make Disciples.... IE feed the sheep...


This was not directed to you.

I thought somewhere someone posted Peter was an outcast. That's what that was about. I just tried to find that post and couldn't so I guess I was wrong.

I don't know if you have read this or not but a Catholic archbishop from Ireland named Malachy predicted this would be the last Pope. I have a copy of the book.

St. Malachy Last Pope Prophecy: What Theologians Think About 12th-Century Prediction | Huffington Post


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Not sure what is keeping this last Pope from being the False Prophet as mentioned in the Bible. It takes a world religious leader to fill the role. He seems to be the only candidate for the position. 
Is Pope Francis The False Prophet? | Prophecy in the News


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Annie said:


> Adoration is worship. We don't worship the Blessed Mother. Veneration is the correct term for the honor we give to Our Lady. We venerate her. The Bible states, "All generations shall call me blessed." Our Lord gave her to us while he was hanging on the cross. 'Woman behold your son...' If you belong to Christ, she is your mother. The Lord God says, "Honor your father and mother. So how do you honor her?


If you're praying to anyone other that God through Jesus, you are worshiping them. None of the so called saints can help you. The word saints in the Bible refers in the plural and refers to anyone who is saved. Mary was the earthly mother of Christ, a vessel and no more, a sinner in need of salvation same as you and me.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Boss Dog said:


> If you're praying to anyone other that God through Jesus, you are worshiping them. None of the so called saints can help you. The word saints in the Bible refers in the plural and refers to anyone who is saved. Mary was the earthly mother of Christ, a vessel and no more, a sinner in need of salvation same as you and me.


John 14:6 
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

catholics like to say.. "but you protestants ask people to pray for you. we are just asking Mary to pray for us." Of course they are not the same- Mary is dead

Ever noticed that in revelation when talking about what is around the throne that mary is not mentioned anyplace, she is not next to the throne, she is not with the 24 elders..

I would think that IF she were there John would have mentioned it

and the biggie... notice when Jesus lays out a way to pray

Matthew 6:9-13 
Pray then like this: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

i


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Boss Dog said:


> If you're praying to anyone other that God through Jesus, you are worshiping them. None of the so called saints can help you. The word saints in the Bible refers in the plural and refers to anyone who is saved. Mary was the earthly mother of Christ, a vessel and no more, a sinner in need of salvation same as you and me.


Do you ask people to pray for you? Your friends. Those in heaven can pray for you too.


Maine-Marine said:


> So why did the apostle use two different words in greek... if Matthew had understood it to be the same word why did he change it???? ponder that. AND we have no idea what Word Jesus used accept we read the bible!!!!! So please do not tell me what word He used in Aramaic ,,, you do not know
> So are you telling me that the church was built on PETER the Apostles
> 
> really???
> ...


Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> This was not directed to you.
> 
> I thought somewhere someone posted Peter was an outcast. That's what that was about. I just tried to find that post and couldn't so I guess I was wrong.
> 
> ...


Yes, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he is the last. But am not really sure. Honestly I'm not sure he's even a ligitamate pope at this point. Although I haven't read the book, I'm told that the problem is that Malachi doesn't necessarily name all the popes which may throw the order off.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Annie said:


> Yes, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he is the last. But am not really sure. Honestly I'm not sure he's even a ligitamate pope at this point. Although I haven't read the book, I'm told that the problem is that Malachi doesn't necessarily name all the popes which may throw the order off.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


It's a short read but you should check it out. It's been a while since I have read it but the Vatican seems to think it holds water.

https://smile.amazon.com/Prophecies...TF8&qid=1474334072&sr=1-1&keywords=st+malachy


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> So why did the apostle use two different words in greek... if Matthew had understood it to be the same word why did he change it???? ponder that. AND we have no idea what Word Jesus used accept we read the bible!!!!! So please do not tell me what word He used in Aramaic ,,, you do not know
> So are you telling me that the church was built on PETER the Apostles
> 
> really???
> ...


First off, I'm glad you're not rabidly anti-Catholic.

Secondly, St. Matthew the apostle didn't write the book of Matthew. He didn't speak Greek. It was written in the second century, so St. Matthew would've been long gone by then. It was written in the tradition, the oral tradition that had been handed down from Matthew.

Lastly caling Catholics "blind" doesn't prove the false doctrine of "once saved always saved." There's a line a Christian needs to walk without falling into either the sin of presumption (as in "it's okay to sin because God will forgive me") or the sin of despair (as in "I'm no good, Christ doesn't want me"). Both these are the devil's playground. 
True God will never turn away from us but we most certainly can turn away from Him. And turn away for good. We do have free will, and unfortunately I've seen it happen more than once.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> It's a short read but you should check it out. It's been a while since I have read it but the Vatican seems to think it holds water.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/Prophecies...TF8&qid=1474334072&sr=1-1&keywords=st+malachy


Thanks, I'll check it out.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Not sure what is keeping this last Pope from being the False Prophet as mentioned in the Bible. It takes a world religious leader to fill the role. He seems to be the only candidate for the position.
> Is Pope Francis The False Prophet? | Prophecy in the News


It is well documented at this point that the Vatican was infitrated by communist in the 1930's and 1940's (do a search on Bella Dodd) and Free Masons have wormed there way into high positions.

There are Catholic prophecies that "Rome will become the seat of the anti-Christ." So who knows.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Good point. The Jesuits invented communism as you probably know. The Pope is a Jesuit. Hmmm..lol.
A Brief History of the Jesuits


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

you can ask anyone to pray for you-but only you can ask God for you and only through Jesus will God listen right?
so the only way to get to heaven would be to ask Jesus for forgiveness for is it not he who paid in full for your sins by the command of the father. Will it not be he who judges you on the day? 
now the way I see it if God sends a messenger and says speak the truth on this hour of this day of this year and well you don't I think that would be called a Fail.
Jesus was a Jew, was the king of Jews and it was the Jewish parses who condemned him right?


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Annie said:


> Do you ask people to pray for you? Your friends.


Yes I do, however those friends are alive and here on earth with me.



> James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.


Don't need no heavenly saints, no pope to pray through for me.


> 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


If I need spiritual help praying, God has a fix already. 


> Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.





Annie said:


> Those in heaven can pray for you too.


What is the chapter & verse for this?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Boss Dog said:


> Yes I do, however those friends are alive and here on earth with me.
> 
> Don't need no heavenly saints, no pope to pray through for me.
> 
> ...


We're supposed to pray for one another, are we not? Why do you question that this great cloud of witnesses over our heads (Hebrews 12:1) can't hear you when you pray to them? Can you explain to me how those who are living hear you? It's only by God's will that the person next to you can hear you, same as in heaven. The saints in heaven are most closely united with God. I can't imagine why you wouldn't want their prayers.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> you can ask anyone to pray for you-but only you can ask God for you and only through Jesus will God listen right?
> so the only way to get to heaven would be to ask Jesus for forgiveness for is it not he who paid in full for your sins by the command of the father. Will it not be he who judges you on the day?
> now the way I see it if God sends a messenger and says speak the truth on this hour of this day of this year and well you don't I think that would be called a Fail.
> Jesus was a Jew, was the king of Jews and it was the Jewish parses who condemned him right?


Right, we have to give our lives and our will to Jesus; each of us have to do this individually. But Christ established His Church. If it weren't for the communion of saints who have shared the Gospel, none of us in our time would've even heard the Good News. So, we're not in a vacuum.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Good point. The Jesuits invented communism as you probably know. The Pope is a Jesuit. Hmmm..lol.
> A Brief History of the Jesuits


Well, they didn't actually invent it but they sure had a good run with it in South America back in the 70's and 80's. They twisted the Gospel into a political thing. Very bad.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie ...... you maintain the apostles were knowingly designated Popes of the RCC? Please validate.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Annie ...... you maintain the apostles were knowingly designated Popes of the RCC? Please validate.


Only Peter.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> It's a short read but you should check it out. It's been a while since I have read it but the Vatican seems to think it holds water.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/Prophecies...TF8&qid=1474334072&sr=1-1&keywords=st+malachy


Inceltor, I found thins. and thought it might be of interest to you.

9 things you need to know about the prophecy of St. Malachy |Blogs | NCRegister.com


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> First off, I'm glad you're not rabidly anti-Catholic.
> 
> Secondly, St. Matthew the apostle didn't write the book of Matthew. He didn't speak Greek. It was written in the second century, so St. Matthew would've been long gone by then. It was written in the tradition, the oral tradition that had been handed down from Matthew.
> 
> ...


WOw... actually, all books of the new testament were written prior to 70 AD

As a tex collector Matthew would have spoken at least Aramic and greek and maybe others

I never mention OSAS, however I agree it is a false doctrine


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> WOw... actually, all books of the new testament were written prior to 70 AD


Sorry, my bad. :tango_face_smile:



> As a tex collector Matthew would have spoken at least Aramic and greek and maybe others


Well bottom line is Christ spoke to His Apostle in Aramaic. And in that language a Kepha is a Kepha.



> I never mention OSAS, however I agree it is a false doctrine


Nice to know we agree there.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Annie said:


> We're supposed to pray for one another, are we not? Why do you question that this great cloud of witnesses over our heads (Hebrews 12:1) can't hear you when you pray to them? Can you explain to me how those who are living hear you? It's only by God's will that the person next to you can hear you, same as in heaven. The saints in heaven are most closely united with God. I can't imagine why you wouldn't want their prayers.


Where does the Bible tell us to pray to saints in heaven? Hebrews 12:1 does not refer to them.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Boss Dog said:


> Where does the Bible tell us to pray to saints in heaven? Hebrews 12:1 does not refer to them.


Hey Boss Dog, I like your new avatar.

I tried to answer that in #108, but I will give you a chapter and verse once you give me a chapter and verse for Sola Scriptura.

While nothing can contradict scripture, not everything is in the Bible verbatim. That's why we have sacred Tradition.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)




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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Well bottom line is Christ spoke to His Apostle in Aramaic. And in that language a Kepha is a Kepha.


it is only the bottom line if you refuse to do a little research.

It is true that Kepha is the word for rock.. but there is an issue with male and female types and also the word stone and to make things more interesting... there are different words for the size of a ROCK or stone...

If you read this article I think you will see that the claim about Aramaic and the word ROCK is wrong!!!

"On This Rock"

here is part of the work

Fortunately, the text offers us even more information to help us clarify this question. First, in the Greek we discover that the words translated "Peter" and "rock" are not the same. Peter is a transliteration of the word Petros, meaning-"stone" (BAG, p. 654). In contrast, the word for "rock" is petra, with a feminine ending. This small change affects the meaning. Instead of referring to a smaller rock, it refers to a-"ledge, cliff, a large stone" (Thayer, p. 507). This is clear in other Scriptures where the word is used. A petra is the unshakeable foundation the wise man builds upon (Matthew 7:24,25), it is the rock into which Jesus' tomb was carved (Matthew 27:60) and it is the stony ground of the parable of the sower (Luke 8:6,13). Second, the word translated "this" matches the feminine gender of petra.[1] That means that it cannot be referring to Peter, but to a separate bedrock (i.e. the truth that he had just confessed).

While it is true that Aramaic (i.e. Syriac) translations spell the words for "Peter" and "rock" the same, they actually follow the same gender pattern as the Greek text. The word kefa in Syriac is a feminine noun (Lexicon Syriacum, p.315). Like the Greek, Latin and Coptic in Matthew 16:18 the Syriac word for "this" is feminine.[4] But Peter is called kefa. B. Harris Cowper, in his work Principles of Syriac Grammar tells us that in Syriac "names and appellations of men are masculine" (p. 65). When nouns are used figuratively they are treated "as of the gender of those which they represent" (p. 95). As an example, Cowper cites the Syriac word melta, meaning "word." Although it is at other times feminine, when it is used of Jesus it is masculine. That means that the Syriac text, like


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Annie said:


> Hey Boss Dog, I like your new avatar.
> 
> I tried to answer that in #108, but I will give you a chapter and verse once you give me a chapter and verse for Sola Scriptura.
> 
> While nothing can contradict scripture, not everything is in the Bible verbatim. That's why we have sacred Tradition.


Thanks, it's an old one I brought back.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> it is only the bottom line if you refuse to do a little research.
> 
> It is true that Kepha is the word for rock.. but there is an issue with male and female types and also the word stone and to make things more interesting... there are different words for the size of a ROCK or stone...
> 
> ...


Okay, allow me to step back and go back to the actual passage for a moment. Let's read it again as a whole for a moment, rather than separating a part from the whole.

[13] And Jesus came into the quarters of Caesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? [14] But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets. [15] Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

[16] Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

Is the main point of this text the consideration whether or not it was written Syriac, Aramaic, and Greek languages? No, as my friend Miriam says, "Even if the nuances about personal names and kinds of rocks had merit as regards distinctions, what does not have merit is to separate Peter from that very bedrock of faith. Sure, let's say Our Lord "meant" the bedrock of faith. Nevertheless, he didn't mean it apart from the very person who was to embody that bedrock of faith, and such a separation would have been alien to the culture of First Century Palestine, in which both the "old" faith (that of the Jews) and the transformed faith were identified by persons who represented it, preached it, modeled it: Prophets, leaders, and ultimately Jesus Christ. The faith was not an abstraction to them. It was passed on by authorized, recognized, designated, appointed leaders -- once Moses, then Prophets, then Jesus, then Apostles, eventually Popes -- none of whom "owned" the faith but all of whom professed it and represented it."


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Is the main point of this text the consideration whether or not it was written Syriac, Aramaic, and Greek languages? No, as my friend Miriam says, "Even if the nuances about personal names and kinds of rocks had merit as regards distinctions, what does not have merit is to separate Peter from that very bedrock of faith. Sure, let's say Our Lord "meant" the bedrock of faith. Nevertheless, he didn't mean it apart from the very person who was to embody that bedrock of faith, and such a separation would have been alien to the culture of First Century Palestine, in which both the "old" faith (that of the Jews) and the transformed faith were identified by persons who represented it, preached it, modeled it: Prophets, leaders, and ultimately Jesus Christ. The faith was not an abstraction to them. It was passed on by authorized, recognized, designated, appointed leaders -- once Moses, then Prophets, then Jesus, then Apostles, eventually Popes -- none of whom "owned" the faith but all of whom professed it and represented it."


you made the point about languages and are now stepping back from that because it does not work well for your ideas.

Now you are adding your own thoughts into what the Master meant "Nevertheless, he didn't mean it apart from the very person who was to embody that bedrock of faith"

as for ME... I will never be Catholic because in my mind you folks lift up the church, tradition, and Mary over Jesus.... you have added and subtracted in order to make things fit into your actions...

I preach that people MUST changed to fit into what God wants, you folks want to change God and the bible to fit what you want. Sorry.

whenever there is a conflict tradition OF MAN seems to win with you guys

I am done with this discussion because it is distraction from prepping talk. I will just close by saying... If you see the Pope align with a great leader and start talking about a one world religion.. KNOW that you need to leave and stop listening


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> you made the point about languages and are now stepping back from that because it does not work well for your ideas.
> 
> Now you are adding your own thoughts into what the Master meant "Nevertheless, he didn't mean it apart from the very person who was to embody that bedrock of faith"
> 
> ...


As you like. A few thoughts...

First of all, I'm not the one who sidetracked the Fatima thread, but regardless of that I'm happy to discuss the papacy assuming I'm not going to get bumped off the forum for doing so.

Secondly, I'm not willing to go along with your theologian's ideas about Kepha, I'm simply saying that if--that if--and assuming he's right, to what extent does that actually change the meaning of the text? And in all honesty I don't see that it does.

Last of all, when you say that "I preach that people MUST [be] changed to fit into what God wants, you folks want to change God and the bible to fit what you want." That's completely untrue and unfair.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> As you like. A few thoughts...
> 
> First of all, I'm not the one who sidetracked the Fatima thread, but regardless of that I'm happy to discuss the papacy assuming I'm not going to get bumped off the forum for doing so.


Carry on ...... in this Section only.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Carry on ...... in this Section only.


Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Chair - Steve Ray


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

We actually prefer Pope Paul. Thanks anyway.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> We actually prefer Pope Paul. Thanks anyway.


There's been six of those.









Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Not those guys. I am speaking of the Jewish guy who the Lord slapped off his horse on the way to Damascus and went blind for a while.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

We're done here right? 

Good, God Bless You Both (and all who partook)

Now back to your corners while we await a decision from the Referee with the Big 'G' on his shirt.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)




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