# 36 yard zero



## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Where do you zero your AR's? I watched a video from Shawn Ryan of vigilance elite. He talked about a 36 yard zero, and showed the trajectory of a 55 grain 5.56 bullet out to 300 yards. According to the video the bullet will stay in an approximate 6" circle from the muzzle out to 300 yards. The impacts were drawn not fired onto a target probably using a ruler and ballistic calculator, so it shows "perfect world" scenario. What he says makes sense to me. What are y'all doing? Google the 36 yard zero and see what you think.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I am not familiar with the ballistics of that caliber but I remember reading vets zeroing the Garand at 25 yards to be Combat accurate to 200 yards


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The laser on my AR is zeroed at 50 yards.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> The laser on my AR is zeroed at 50 yards.


Ditto for my red dot.

It puts the round on target at 50yds, 2" high at 135yds, bang on again at 225yds, and ~2" low at 250.
Covers the range I expect for this rifle.

Sounds similar to this 36yd setup.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

50 yard zero for Irons and dots


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Just hold across the shoulders and let it drop in. 25,36 or 50 yards zero, a couple inches at 300 yards isn't going to matter. You'll still get center mass hits.

I use 50 yard zero because that works out best on my range the way it's set up.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The 36 yard zero is nothing new. It is useful for many. One shows it compared to a 100 yard zero and the other shows it compared to different rounds. keep in mind the AR and the 223/5.56 round is designed for fat engagement. Hit it and move to the next target. Often no time for hold over , hold under ect. A zero that puts you on target close enough is the goal. Notice how the 36 yard zero does that compared to the 100 yard, the 100 yard zero is meant to be used with trained hold over and hold under.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

There is lots of info on line for zeros at many different distances. Which one you choose depends on what distance you plan on engaging targets. A zero for home defence would be much different than one for shooting at 300 yards. I zero my irons at 50 yards. My carbine has a scope with BDC so that rifle is zeroed so that POA equals POI at 100 yards. A red dot on a pistol is zeroed much shorter....... maybe 40 yards.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

The Army has used the 25yd zero for a bunch of years. I got out 25 years ago, and we used it then. My friends son is in the NG and he told me they use it now.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

jimb1972 said:


> The Army has used the 25yd zero for a bunch of years. I got out 25 years ago, and we used it then. My friends son is in the NG and he told me they use it now.


 NO the Army used a 25 meter zero range that because of the target they used was a 100 yard Zero. The reason the Army used a 100 yard zero is they train hold over and hold under. Many misunderstood how the zero range worked. When they started issuing Reddots to everyone , M68 AIMPoint they would alter the same target by drawing a flashlight lens size circle with the top of the circle crossing the center aim point on the target. They did that until new zero range targets were made.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> NO the Army used a 25 meter zero range that because of the target they used was a 100 yard Zero. The reason the Army used a 100 yard zero is they train hold over and hold under. Many misunderstood how the zero range worked. When they started issuing Reddots to everyone , M68 AIMPoint they would alter the same target by drawing a flashlight lens size circle with the top of the circle crossing the center aim point on the target. They did that until new zero range targets were made.


OK, 25 meter.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

jimb1972 said:


> OK, 25 meter.


 The rest of it is the important part . It is a 100 yard zero. Just done on a 25 meter range. It just a madder of math.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Posted twice??


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Improved Battle-sight Zero



> IBZ stands for Improved Battle-sight Zero. The common drum elevation adjustable rear sight can be tuned to achieve some great versatility. The method for adjusting for A2 and A3 drums is a simple process. Before we begin remember that a detachable carry handle on a 20 inch barrel translates to a 1/2 MOA adjustment for windage and elevation. This makes a flat top 20 inch rifle with a rear drum a *very* precise machine. Contrast that to a fixed carry handle which adjusts against 1 MOA clicks for both windage and elevation. This doesn't mean that A2 drums aren't precise&#8230; but if you are going to give high power shooting or XTC a try with your fighting rifle *as is* then you would do best to take an A4 with detachable carry handle.


AR15 Improved battle-sight Zero


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> The rest of it is the important part . It is a 100 yard zero. Just done on a 25 meter range. It just a madder of math.


So, you are saying the rifle is not zeroed at 25m? If you shoot the 62gr instead of the 55gr is it then a 99yd zero? How about 75gr? The rifle is zeroed at 25m the elevation of the bullet at various ranges is math. With zero evidence to back my hypothesis, I suspect many recruits are such piss poor riflemen that zeroing a rifle at 100yds would eat up too many training days on the range.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

jimb1972 said:


> So, you are saying the rifle is not zeroed at 25m? If you shoot the 62gr instead of the 55gr is it then a 99yd zero? How about 75gr? The rifle is zeroed at 25m the elevation of the bullet at various ranges is math. With zero evidence to back my hypothesis, I suspect many recruits are such piss poor riflemen that zeroing a rifle at 100yds would eat up too many training days on the range.


 Correct the 25 meter range is designed so that distance the target used and the sights the weapon has comes out to what a 100 yard zero would be. If you go back to the days of the M16 A2 type front and rear sight you had to change the rear sight on the zero range the put it back on the range . Once in a while someone would forget to dial it back and they failed big time.
The reason it was done was time. The 25 meter zero range works it expose marksmanship errors quickly and allows for on the spot correction. Been retired a long time now so I don't remember every detail. But if you could put 3 rounds that a dime would touch all 3 you were good. Then it was a madder of adjusting the sight center target move to range. factory issue ammo was unlikely to produce much better results.
If you completed the zero correctly and on the range applied correct hold over and under depending on target range you would do just fine. 
Keep in mind when you look at the trajectory graph no hold over or under is applied. The difference in 55 and 62. Was not much. Also when they switched to 62 gr it was total so the two rounds were not an issue. The 62 gr was intended for the the SAW 249 it just worked out that it work well enough in the M4 platform to make it the standard round. 
Both sons are Master Gunners I could call and bug them , but I know darn well they would both say "not this crap again"


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

posted twice again


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

keith9365 said:


> Where do you zero your AR's? I watched a video from Shawn Ryan of vigilance elite. He talked about a 36 yard zero, and showed the trajectory of a 55 grain 5.56 bullet out to 300 yards. According to the video the bullet will stay in an approximate 6" circle from the muzzle out to 300 yards. The impacts were drawn not fired onto a target probably using a ruler and ballistic calculator, so it shows "perfect world" scenario. What he says makes sense to me. What are y'all doing? Google the 36 yard zero and see what you think.


Great thread. 36 yards sounds good to me. We used to dial the old scopeed deer rifles in at 25 yards which rumor was that would make them on the money at 100. Which came pretty close sometimes..but took a few shots at a hundred to tweak it.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I have some Aimpoint targets, that show 1.125" low at 25 yards for a 200 yard zero........


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

hawgrider said:


> Improved Battle-sight Zero
> 
> AR15 Improved battle-sight Zero


"F" that, my A2's are set at 1.125" low at 25 yards, and I go with it.

MPBR doesn't even come into play in my AO, but the article above is the truth.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> "F" that, my A2's are set at 1.125" low at 25 yards, and I go with it.
> 
> MPBR doesn't even come into play in my AO, but the article above is the truth.


I had the 28" barrel on the Colt match target competition. The Improved battle sight zero was the way to go for me.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

jimb1972 said:


> So, you are saying the rifle is not zeroed at 25m? If you shoot the 62gr instead of the 55gr is it then a 99yd zero? How about 75gr? The rifle is zeroed at 25m the elevation of the bullet at various ranges is math. With zero evidence to back my hypothesis, I suspect many recruits are such piss poor riflemen that zeroing a rifle at 100yds would eat up too many training days on the range.


True dat!

Look folks here is the basic science of a zero....your site is x distance above your rifles bore site. this creates a need to have an intersecting line between the two at some point. This also assists in forcing the angle of the bore site to be placed in an inclined angle (upwards), because you not changing your line of sight to yur target...your always adjusting your bore site to match the distance to the target and the trajectory of the round used.

now here is the simple part: all rounds will go up in elevation as they pass the zeroed distance line of site. The closer that zero s...the greater the angle upwards will be. This results in a point of Maximum Ord...which is where the round is at its highest point above your line of sight and begins to descend. At a specific point that round will pass back through your line of sight and eventually strike the ground.

....at what distance do you expect to be shooting? The M16A1 was originally considered to have a max effective range of 460meters and the military qualified at ranges to 300 meters for basic qualification and 450m for advanced courses. To achieve effective coverage out to those ranges you needed to zero to the 25m distance....now they have adjustable sights...so its sort of moot.

I expect to shoot between 0 to 250 yards. I zero at 50yds so that from 0 to 250 I will be less than 2 inches from my line of site at maximum ord and maximum expected range. In Asskrackistan I zeroed completely differently because I expected to engage at 200-450 yards.

I'm no range shooter or competition marksman....I just know what works for me. do your research...understand your use case...shoot and learn.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

hawgrider said:


> I had the 28" barrel on the Colt match target competition. The Improved battle sight zero was the way to go for me.


I couldn't lift a 28" barrel, no wonder you got rid of it.

"F" that, means I ain't messing with it.
My 10.5" A2 shoots for crap, and my 20" Colt A1/A2 transition just hits the bull at 100 yards. I'm leaving it alone, too many fish to fry now


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

And they burned. No fire though. Too long in the microwave..............


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Rifles in the vault have a note on them marking what zero they have . The 100 yard zero for an Ar works well if you are practiced with hold over and under. Rifles that are setup for 500 yards or more generally have a 200 yard zero . Downside to different zero is doing math at a time you just need to stay alive.
The Op started out talking about the 36yeard zero. I first was exposed to it by a couple Marine rifleman I knew well. After working with I found it did have merit.


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