# Sewage Treatment in a SHTF scenario (pun intended)



## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Today, I am going on a private tour of the local municipal sewage treatment plant.

I have read in various places that if there is a power outage for more than a few days, those served by a municipal sewage treatment plant may have raw sewage backing up into their homes. For those of us who plan to bug in, this would be a major problem. One source said that if the treatment plant is a "pumping" system vs. a gravity system, there will be a problem. One idea I have to combat this potential problem is to install a gate valve, like on an RV dumping system, in the main sewer line that is in my crawl space. Seems like an easy thing to do (if I can get my plumber to do that, if he says it will work). Power goes out? Close the valve to prevent any backflow. Your comments are welcome as I am not sure if this would work or what.

Meanwhile, I went to our Town Hall yesterday and asked if I could speak to the person who would have info on how our system runs. I received a phone call an hour or two later from the manager of the system and he invited me to come for a tour and info gathering meeting! I have to admit that I never much thought about this issue, it's just a matter of flushing the toilet and mailing a check. Who cares, right? Anyway, I am looking forward to this "tour" and learning about the system. I will report back this evening. As an aside, the man who called is the person who works on-site. He was so very nice and said, "Nobody ever comes to visit me", and seemed happy to educate me on how this is done. I am actually sorta excited about it which perhaps indicates that I need to get a life. Sigh.

Until later...


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

*Consider this*: The main sewer line running to the septic tank or community sewer line is generally a* 4" PVC *pipe.

*Purchase:*
(1) 4" PVC End Cap ($5)
(4) 5" Adjustable radiator clamps
(2) 12" cuts of flexible rubber. (The rubber is cut from a roll one foot wide.)
(1) 4" PVC Connector (optional)

If TSHTF, cut a 6 to 10 inch section of the pipe out;
Place the End Cap on the street side;
Place a rock in front of the cap or drive a stake into the ground to keep it in place.

After the SHIT is over, remove the unglued cap;
install the removed section of pipe;
wrap each cut with the rubber and hold each rubber piece with the two metal bands.

*Option:* It might be better to have a 4" PVC coupling that can be slid into place instead of the rubber wrap.
This will insure that one side always stays level.

*Note: * Sewer is not under pressure so no need for fresh can of glue.
Place a short board under the rubber joint to keep it level over the years.

Hope this helps. We sleep prepared with this setup ready as we are at the bottom of a hill.
My guess is as much as 10% of homes will flood shit from lift station failure.

With the above plan you can dig up the line near the street and seal it off yourself.
When the panic is over you can repair yourself as well.

P.S. The closer you dig to the house the less digging you will have to do.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

That's assuming the house is new enough to have PVC lines. There's lots of cast iron, orangeburg, copper and who-knows-what else out there.

You can get a simple expansion plug that will work on pretty much any pipe.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

jimcosta said:


> *Consider this*: The main sewer line running to the septic tank or community sewer line is generally a* 4" PVC *pipe.
> 
> *Purchase:*
> (1) 4" PVC End Cap ($5)
> ...


Thank You! My sewer line is 4" heavy duty black pvc. It runs from the street, under the stem wall of the foundation, into the crawl space, about ten feet, where there are connections of all of the household drains (baths/ kitchen). I know this because after purchasing this house, tree roots were discovered in the line between the house and the street. The entire line was replaced three years ago and I watched every stage of the work (to learn). So from me to where the line connects at the street, it is all new. Ha! For once, something may be right. No digging required. Right? (Please say yes.)



Back Pack Hack said:


> That's assuming the house is new enough to have PVC lines. There's lots of cast iron, orangeburg, copper and who-knows-what else out there.
> 
> You can get a simple expansion plug that will work on pretty much any pipe.


You are correct. The old pipe was iron (I think). When the tree roots were found, it was suggested they could replace just that section of pipe. When something like this happens, I immediately think about the next time another part goes bad. So I told them to replace the entire line. Which increased the price substantially but my thought was, "I don't wanna do this again."


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

The best bet for ItsJustMe is to locate the line close to the house and dig enough just to take a peek.
Then he knows what to inventory.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Now you understand why I live 500 feet above the sewage treatment plant.


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## One Shot (Oct 25, 2021)

I'm on a septic tank but in a shtf situation and it fills up we go to plan "B" which is the old Outhouse and lime, If you want a sure way to shut down the line a 4'' gate valve inline would be the quick and easy way, it'll cost to install but it may be worth it. Another way but more costly is to install a backflow preventer or a swing check valve.


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## jimLE (Feb 8, 2014)

I agree with, going with a 4'' gate valve inline.and as a Lil extra additive.include backflow preventer or a swing check valve.even then.install them as close to the street as you legally can and allowed.and here's why I would.i lived across the street from where there was a lift station for the city sewer directly across from the house.it went out.sewer leeked out between the base of the pump and the pipe.needless to say.100's of gallons of sewage flowed across the street and a neighbor's yard,to out back where a creek is.and,nope.not a pretty site or Smell.


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

On second thought, don't try to put a coupler on one side to repair the pipe. You will have to really struggle to insert the cut out section inline.
Use the two pieces of rubber to tie in.

With the rubber repair method you don't have to do anything unless TSHTF.
*__*
If you do have to turn off the sewage I suggest you look at Human-Manure composting system.
It's free in all ways, free toilet, no odor and approved by EPA.

See: Item 40- Sanitary Shit, on page 39 from Systematic Approach To Group Survival Booklet, second PDF file there.
The first PDF is the index for the booklet.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

I think you should accept all the sewage you can and just dehydrate it. Then turn it into fire logs to sell. While it is dehydrating, you can capture the methane gas to run your generator.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

jimcosta said:


> The best bet for ItsJustMe is to locate the line close to the house and dig enough just to take a peek.
> Then he knows what to inventory.


Don't need to locate the line since I watched them replace it a few years ago. I know exactly what and where it is and that it is four feet deep. LOL! To dig a hole that deep? I'm just a little old lady. My shovel would go on strike, hopefully before my body gave out. I would probably fall into the hole and die. It is easily accessible in the crawl space, above the crawl space floor. Yay!

So, the "tour" was actually pretty amazing. The plant treats sewage from about 2,000 homes and businesses, about 145,000 gallons/day. It is maybe two miles (my estimate, roughly) downhill from the homes on the system; all sewage from those homes flows down by GRAVITY (probably a 1,000+ ft drop in elevation). The sewage (which is about 2% solids) is treated (I won't go into detail), and the water left is then pumped from holding ponds back uphill and discharged into a natural creek that eventually ends up in the Colorado River. It is tested once a week, as long as there have been no problems with equipment, etc. It is over 98% "clean" when discharged. It is not potable, but he said you could filter it with a coffee filter, boil it, and drink it. Which is what I would do with the creek water even without any discharge into it.

There are a number of farms around here and I have often thought about what goes into the natural waterways in this area. Dairy farms, crop farms (fertilizers), wildlife, who knows what else. Most likely, the effluent is cleaner than what would naturally be found in those waters.

He also showed me a map of the entire system. We located my house and I saw what is both up and downstream from me. Not much upstream, most everybody else is downstream. Should there be a municipal-provided power outage, there is a huge kerosene powered generator that will run the pumps that pump the treated effluent back uphill where it is discharged into that creek. If that should fail, the effluent in the holding ponds will overflow and run downhill into a nearby reservoir. If things should back up (from a blockage in the main sewer lines, perhaps), it would most likely first come out through a manhole along the line somewhere, before backing UPhill into homes above it. So even if all power systems are down for more than a week, it is very unlikely that any sewage would back up into homes along the line because ... um... stuff does indeed run downhill. And it would have to go some distance before getting to me, as long as the power outage is the only problem.

I have to say that first, he was really nice, answered my questions, and explained things in a way that I could understand. He didn't talk "down" to me. He also takes great pride in his work, a rarity in today's world. I thanked him profusely and he is someone I would definitely greet if I passed him on the street!

Second, I did ask him about people pouring left over medications or other chemicals into their toilets/sinks. The treatment does not cover those. He said fish and other wildlife have been found with antibiotics, heart meds, and other chemicals in their tissues. Ummm...food for thought if you are a fisher person.

Interesting comment he made...he once found a pair of glasses in the trash filtering mechanism. I said it was probably from somebody throwing up in the toilet and their glasses fell off. Ouch.

So, now I need to decide if I want to do anything about my sewer line. (Well, hire a plumber to do something.) Also, I will never again complain about the sewer charge on my bill because have you any idea how much it costs to repair/replace any of that equipment, pay his salary which I hope is good, and just run the place? He said their power bill is about $3,000/month. Double Ouch!


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Oh! And I want to add that for those whose sewage is "moved" by a lift station, a power outage would definitely be a problem.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Most lift stations have back-up gennies.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Sure glad I live out in the sticks. Dig hole on other side of hill. Just above the stupid neighbors from the big city. Maybe skip the hole and just let it wash down to their house.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

You can purchase an inflatable "ball" that goes in the sewer line. Inflate and it cuts off the house from the main line. In my area, the cleanouts for the sewer line is just off the house. For me, super easy to get to.

One place I worked at for 9 years, the city sewer had a lift station about a mile away. Everytime the area had a power failure, the sewer would start "weeping" very fast at a manhole in the parking lot. One time managed to pop the cover up and we must have gotten many thousands of gallons of raw sewage into the lots. So much fun!


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Issue with inflatables: They can leak. They're really designed for test purposes and not long-term use.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Most lift stations have back-up gennies.


Yes. But I am one of those "worst case scenarios" people -- what if it is a long term event and fuel runs out for the gennie? Sometimes I tend to think in extremes. Drives others crazy. Oh well.



paraquack said:


> You can purchase an inflatable "ball" that goes in the sewer line. Inflate and it cuts off the house from the main line. In my area, the cleanouts for the sewer line is just off the house. For me, super easy to get to.
> 
> One place I worked at for 9 years, the city sewer had a lift station about a mile away. Everytime the area had a power failure, the sewer would start "weeping" very fast at a manhole in the parking lot. One time managed to pop the cover up and we must have gotten many thousands of gallons of raw sewage into the lots. So much fun!


 Never heard of the "ball" thing. Interesting. As for cleanouts, when my house sewer line was invaded by tree roots, the only cleanout was one-way that went the wrong direction, away from the house and about thirty feet from it. When they dug it up, I had them add two of the two-way cleanouts, one just outside the house, and one where the line turns towards the street. Fool me once... The strange thing was none of the plumbers (two different companies) suggested adding those cleanouts. When I told them I wanted cleanouts added, they just sorta looked at me.

Personally, I don't think there will be a long-term, longer than a month, power outage. Rather, I hope it will be rolling blackouts. I can't imagine what things will be like if it is a complete shutdown for months. Even so, that is what I am planning for as best I can.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

ItsJustMe said:


> Yes. But I am one of those "worst case scenarios" people -- what if it is a long term event and fuel runs out for the gennie?
> ........


Fuel also runs out of the gennies that run the pumps that fill the water towers.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

You can always leave the hand air pump connected to the inflatable ball in the sewer. Check valves leak too, and gate valves can freeze up. That happened to my uncle. He ended up using one of his kids balls (toy inflatable) on top of the basement floor drain, with a 4x4 on top it and a scissors jack under a floor joist to put pressure on the post.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

paraquack said:


> You can always leave the hand air pump connected to the inflatable ball in the sewer. Check valves leak too, and gate valves can freeze up. That happened to my uncle. He ended up using one of his kids balls (toy inflatable) on top of the basement floor drain, with a 4x4 on top it and a scissors jack under a floor joist to put pressure on the post.


Your Uncle is Brilliant!!


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

One Shot said:


> I'm on a septic tank but in a shtf situation and it fills up we go to plan "B" which is the old Outhouse and lime,



Were on a septic also. Plan is to build an outhouse right away and only use the toilet for #1 and emergency #2 and use the outhouse for normal #2.

This will prevent the septic from getting full.


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## jimLE (Feb 8, 2014)

The last rent house I lived in has a septic.and a field line that was to short to begin with.plus a part of it caved in.so landlord and me not only got out there and replaced it.we extended it out past the house.then across the front of the house until we got past the house.no more issues with the sewage.that was a few years ago.it still works great.but there's one issue when it comes to a shtf situation.there'll be green grass where the field line is.to me that screens,we got water. Especially during the heat of summer, seeing how most of the grass in the front yard is brown from the lak of water.but yet.the septic and field line is still worth having.


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## GPShay (Jul 30, 2018)

jimLE said:


> The last rent house I lived in has a septic.and a field line that was to short to begin with.plus a part of it caved in.so landlord and me not only got out there and replaced it.we extended it out past the house.then across the front of the house until we got past the house.no more issues with the sewage.that was a few years ago.it still works great.but there's one issue when it comes to a shtf situation.there'll be green grass where the field line is.to me that screens,we got water. Especially during the heat of summer, seeing how most of the grass in the front yard is brown from the lak of water.but yet.the septic and field line is still worth having.


This is a really good video to watch .. she speaks of ALL the issues ..


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