# Preppers and Vaccinations



## survival

I don't always get a flu shot, but when I do, the technician makes the grimace.

I know vaccinations are required/recommended for some 3rd world countries and I hear stories from vets opting out of them or becoming sick due to the vacs. Anyone have any serious side effects with vaccinations? Is anyone staying on top of recommended vacs for the future?


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## brimstone

I don't get flu vaccinations. There is too much bad stuff in vaccines that I don't want injected in my body.


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## Denton

I have no choice, right now. Uncle Sugar says I'll have them.
From what I have been told, they are not good at all for the ol' bod. As Brimstone said, there's some putrid crap in them.


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## Desert Marine

Denton said:


> I have no choice, right now. Uncle Sugar says I'll have them.
> From what I have been told, they are not good at all for the ol' bod. As Brimstone said, there's some putrid crap in them.


Here is a blog post that I made regarding the flu shot. It gives my personal recommendations on what to do if you HAVE to get the flu shot due to occupation/job requirements such as military and medical professional as well as was to counteract the flu shot negative effects on the body.


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## Alpha-17

Denton said:


> I have no choice, right now. Uncle Sugar says I'll have them.
> From what I have been told, they are not good at all for the ol' bod. As Brimstone said, there's some putrid crap in them.


I'm in the same boat. The majority of vaccines that I've had to take during my time (anthrax, smallpox, etc), I've felt were relatively useful. The Flu vaccines are the only ones I hate, because, like clock work, they always give me the flu. Go figure.


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## Southern Dad

I take the flu vaccination every year. It is free and I'm all about preparing. I've managed not to use a sick day in five years.


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## Lattice

Alpha-17 said:


> I'm in the same boat. The majority of vaccines that I've had to take during my time (anthrax, smallpox, etc), I've felt were relatively useful.


How do you figure? The anthrax and smallpox vaccines they give you do not work against 99.9 percent of the weaponized bugs.


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## jgriner

During the first swine flu out break, the vaccine killed more than the flu. That's why I didn't get the vaccine during the last out break.

I've also never gotten a flu vaccine, I'm not normally opposed to vaccines but I just don't get the flu one.


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## preppermama

survival said:


> I don't always get a flu shot, but when I do, the technician makes the grimace.
> 
> I know vaccinations are required/recommended for some 3rd world countries and I hear stories from vets opting out of them or becoming sick due to the vacs. Anyone have any serious side effects with vaccinations? Is anyone staying on top of recommended vacs for the future?


Oh heavens, don't go to infowars.com, Alex Jones freaks out on this subject. LOL.

I havent personally had a reaction, but one of my pugs did. She almost died from a reaction to her leptospirosis shot. I also have a friend who nearly died from a vaccination reaction. I'm not surprised people have bad reactions, If you actually go and read the vaccine ingredients you'll be shocked to find a ton of carcinogenic and toxic stuff on the list. And regardless of what studies say, I do think autism and vaccines are correlated in some cases.

However, even with all the bad, I still think vaccines play an important role in public health. My husband's grandmother died of influenza and my great uncle contracted measles as a baby and lost his hearing because of it. Both happened prior to the days of vaccines. I decided to take the middle road in vaccinating my kids, but it has been a huge fight on my part. I don't believe in overloading a child's immune system with 6 shots all at once, especially after reading what's actually in the shots. Why stress a child's immune system like that?

Thanks for corporate medicine 95% of pediatricians will refuse to take your child on as a patient unless you agree to vaccinate according to the mandated schedule, meaning 6 shots a visit. It took me forever to find a pediatrician for my son who would agree to let us do 2 shots per visit.

I never do flu shots...the last time I did (over 10 years ago) I got the worst flu of my life. Haven't been sick since. However, I work from home so I am not exposed to the public very often at all. I also wash my hands constantly in public. I am a bit of a germophobe. LOL.


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## Alpha-17

Lattice said:


> How do you figure? The anthrax and smallpox vaccines they give you do not work against 99.9 percent of the weaponized bugs.


True, but they work against some and that's more than I had going for me without them. Uncle Sam has also sent me to some nasty places, and I've not caught anything yet, so I'll take that as something is working.


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## Lattice

I for one do not believe for one second that autism and vaccines are in any way related. There is just too much data out there that shows otherwise, and way too much evidence that the study that showed a link was fraudulent.

That said, I hate vaccines. In my entire adult life Ive only been sick three times. All three times were directly after I got a vaccine. Yes there is a lot of bad stuff in them. But instead of hating them because of some fraudulent study, hate them for what they really are.

The human immune system is an amazing thing. It can handle nearly anything the world throws at it, if it is kept in good shape.



Alpha-17 said:


> True, but they work against some and that's more than I had going for me without them. Uncle Sam has also sent me to some nasty places, and I've not caught anything yet, so I'll take that as something is working.


Could it instead be that you weren't exposed to anything you were exposed to? Its kinda like a guy handing you a fake talisman and saying that if you carry it, you won't get shot. Every day you make it home without getting shot and you think its working.

Why do I say this? Because the strains they protect against have been extinct for round about twenty years save for in labs.


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## wesley762

I personaly think the last time I got a flu shot or any kind of vaccinations was when I was 5 and that was about 31 years ago, If I have been fine all these years I am pretty sure I am going to be good in the future. My wife has stopped getting the flu shots because they have done nothing but make her sick. I am sure they have there place and some of them are good for the most part, but I am not fond of them.


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## preppermama

Lattice said:


> I for one do not believe for one second that autism and vaccines are in any way related. There is just too much data out there that shows otherwise, and way too much evidence that the study that showed a link was fraudulent.


My beliefs about the correlation between autism and vaccinations is not based on studies at all. Honestly, I don't put a lot of faith in health studies in general because they change all the time. One minute they tell you eggs are bad, the next minute they're the perfect food. One minute vaccines cause autism, the next minute they don't. Studies change all the time, a lot of times depending on who is funding them (LOL).

That being said, I do put a lot of faith in life experience and the three different friends of mine who have children with autism/severe Aspbergers syndrome. All three developed the intiial signs of the condition within days of getting their MMR shot at the doctor. That's evidence enough for me to split the MMR up into three shots with my son and delay if for as long as I dare.


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## rice paddy daddy

Alpha-17 said:


> True, but they work against some and that's more than I had going for me without them. Uncle Sam has also sent me to some nasty places, and I've not caught anything yet, so I'll take that as something is working.


Before I went to Nam, at the 6 month mark, and then before I could come home I (like everybody else) received a battery of shots, plague, typhus, various other tropical diseases, etc. I've long ago lost my shot record so I don't really know what all those shots were.
My question is, once a person has been innoculated against these things, does it last for life, or wear off?


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## RaigenB

Nooo, I do not get shots anymore. Too many "fillers" in them that do not need to be in our bodies.
Here are some links I found on Pinterest the other day, thought they were interesting...

Vaccines: Get the Full Story - NaturalNews.com
Vaccine Theory Proven Wrong: Study by NIH | Gaia HealthGaia Health

"Vaccines Are Synthetic

Vaccines do not produce natural immunity. This study documents that it matters. Natural is superior to synthetic. It's now well known that vaccinations do not produce consistent immunity, nor does what immunity they produce last long. To work at all, they must include toxic substances and ingredients that can produce autoimmune diseases. This is all known to be true. The fact is that a form of rheumatoid arthritis is produced in rats(4) by injecting them with a vaccine adjuvant. To suggest that vaccines are harmless, or even relatively so, can only happen by refusing to acknowledge the overwhelming evidence otherwise." - A quote from the second link


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## survival

rice paddy daddy said:


> My question is, once a person has been innoculated against these things, does it last for life, or wear off?


When I worked in the hospital, I had the hepatitis vaccination and had to go through a series (3 I think) and then I remember something like I had to come back in so many years for a booster shot.


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## Blackcat

I just dont know... i dont know if its good or bad. I do know I seem to instinctively distrust anything that 'they' tell me I should put in my body. I dont know if they are wrong... it just sort of feels a lot like having a dingo mind your baby. It feels unnatural.
That being said my work is offering flu shots right now. I wont be getting one lol


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## pakrat

rice paddy daddy said:


> Before I went to Nam, at the 6 month mark, and then before I could come home I (like everybody else) received a battery of shots, plague, typhus, various other tropical diseases, etc. I've long ago lost my shot record so I don't really know what all those shots were.
> My question is, once a person has been innoculated against these things, does it last for life, or wear off?


I think I got the same battery in 1970 you did. For twenty years following, every time I came in contact with something bad, those injection sights would swell up, get red and puss-up (sorry for the graphic description). Doctors would tell me, 'that's not possible', but they couldn't explain the proof in front of them. Since around 2000 I haven't had any occurrences of swelling anymore, but I also have never had the flu.

I don't get vaccines (other than tetanus ). I do not trust them&#8230; it seems like a really easy way for the Agenda 21 crowd (our United Nations) to hit their 'reduce the population by 200 million people' quota. I'll let my body fight its own battles.


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## Will2

Just posting in here again. I had posted I think to another thread somewhere in the forums regarding the dangers of vaccinatinos. i stated that fever was likely a cause of some adverse effects and that people should wrap wet towels around their head and throw on the airconditioning like total recall. I have been reading more on this and was convinced that another element particularly in children but also adults is adjudivants and desanitizers.. particularly mercury that is in the vaccines under various names.

Apparently these metals stay in the body, in the case of the aluminum that is used it may be related to cognition issues.

Not all vaccines use metals however they were very common, particularly in the 1990s when some started switching over to non mercury containing vaccines.

This is a major risk people should be aware of especially if getting a lot of vaccinations.

Do not vaccinate your kids if the vaccines contain heavy metals and I would stay well away from any of them containing aluminum.

Research any vaccine you plan on getting and ask if there are alternative vaccines that do not contain heavy metals or aluminum - or any metals at all, especially mercury or other toxic substances.

The stuff stays in your body for the rest of your life, and it causes brain damage.

The fever could be in not only caused bbb antibody build up and flooding but also toxic shock.

Especially if these things arn't checked on a molecular ppm basis.. meaning you may get more mercury and someone may get less mercury depending on what part of the centrefuge you draw your stuff from.. since centrefuges will seperate stuff to a certain extent different batch areas may have higher concentrations than others, meaning some people get it light others heavy and everyone gets it bad if metals are in the vaccine.. they need to use only biodegradeble ingredient.. the problem is that they need to figure out adjuviants that last.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228



> This has been a secret kept from the public.
> These attenuated viruses undergo mutation brought on by the presence of free radicals in the tissues and organs and they can mutate into virulent, disease-causing organisms. Recent studies have confirmed this frightening finding. In fact, a large percentage of Alzheimer's disease patients have live viruses in their brain as compared to normal individuals.
> Once these live viruses are injected, they cannot be removed. Because the viruses stay in the body, they will be under constant free radical exposure, which can increase during times of stress, illness, exercise and with aging. It is the free radicals that cause the virus to mutate.
> In essence, the viruses can exist in the brain, or any organ, either silently and slowly producing destruction of the brain or spinal cord or producing sudden disease once the virus mutates to a highly lethal form.


 - source: http://www.icnr.com/articles/blalockonvaccines.html


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## Will2

survival said:


> When I worked in the hospital, I had the hepatitis vaccination and had to go through a series (3 I think) and then I remember something like I had to come back in so many years for a booster shot.


Yeah there was a protest movement happening and a couple kids got hep.. so they -- after the protests forced everyone to do the hep series...as a requirement of being in highschool. I was not really an organizer but was involved with one of the organizations that organized a walkout.. when I got my first shot the the nurse was like -- "he is one of them", I think they switched the needle but I could be wrong.. they seemed like they may have had a checklist. None the less I didn't get the entire series as I got sort of like mono just loss of energy totally and I only got like the first shot or first two shots can't really remember all I know is that I didn't get the whole series and just got really tired for a while my sleep pattern went all over the place but it was mostly due to lifestyle staying up late at night. None the less ended up more or less being forced out of school for truancy as I pretty much stopped going to school sleeping in etc.. mornings became painful to get active.

None the less my experience with hep was only part of the series.. I think that they did a b and c, not sure what order but I guess I only have one or two of them. The "he is one of them" aspect is alittle spooky that the government could have a list of people to either not give or give something else. I also developed something like lactose intolerance. Maybe it was just the vaccine for hep.. but it'd be nice if I could check my dna ect. to see if it was what they said it was.

It is scarry to think the government could target organizers with biological agents in a forced immunization program to teenagers.

on the plus side I lost like 50 lbs of fat and haven't been obese since.

gov 1 : victim 1

I'd like to know why they stress.. the final dose should always be given.. WHY should the final dose always be given?



> because of the prolonged incubation period of hepatitis B, some protection will be afforded to most travellers following the second dose given before travel. However, the final dose should always be given.





> This inactivated vaccine


inactivated vaccine?


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## pharmer14

For the love of all that is good and holy, PLEASE vaccinate... especially your kids.

I understand the hesitancy behind it with the government having a track record of things like global warming, etc, but this is one that the medical literature is actually behind. The very worst clinical trial regarding vaccines I've read is on shingles, and it reduces your risk of disease by 50%. Literally every other vaccine is more effective than that.

And if anyone is on the shots/autism train, let me debunk that one too. The lead author in that sad excuse for a trial was developing a nasal form of a vaccine and was trying to influence the market and drive consumers away from injectables. He's an outright fraud in the medical community. 

Get vaccinated... and get your kids vaccinated too...


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## PaulS

At an appropriate age I believe vaccinations are a good thing in most cases. I don't get flu vaccinations and according to all the "studies" I am in the "danger zone" because I am 63 and a (oh my God) smoker.

Funny thing is I haven't had the flu in more than 40 years and a friend (who is healthier than I) gets his shot and the flu every year. I do have a very strong immune system in spite of my age and habits. 

Immunizations are meant to energize an immune system but if the immune system is too weak it can cause problems and if it is already strong - what's the point?


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## dannydefense

pharmer14 said:


> For the love of all that is good and holy, PLEASE vaccinate... especially your kids.


Is your name Pharmer or Pharma? *zing* 

Anyways, why should we? If you're vaccinated, aren't you safe? That's the whole point, isn't it? You feel safe in your way, I'll be safe in mine.

I find it hilarious when I see all the media hubbub trying to scare people into getting vaccinated. The doctors appear to be so afraid of losing this line of revenue that they've paid into many major franchises just to have the same message played over and over again; if you don't get vaccinated, you could be responsible for killing your neighbors!! Rule number one of marketing, if you find yourself doing something out of fear, you've probably been tricked.

I could care less what the Alex Jones types have to say. I know my own experiences, and I can see with my own eyes. Most diseases they claim to have eradicated with vaccinations have simply been renamed. It may or may not cause autism, but it sure as hell isn't our primary line of defense against the big bad germs.


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## pharmer14

dannydefense said:


> Is your name Pharmer or Pharma? *zing*


Yes. I am finishing my graduate degree in pharmacy. I'll start practicing in May.



> Anyways, why should we? If you're vaccinated, aren't you safe? That's the whole point, isn't it? You feel safe in your way, I'll be safe in mine.


You know how smallpox works? First you don't feel much of anything except for maybe some diarrhea and nausea. Then after a few days you experience flu like symptoms. About 2 weeks in you begin to develop "chicken pox" type lesions on your skin, which can even occur inside your mouth and throat, which releases more viruses into your system, perpetuating your illness.

Wanna talk Polio? Polio causes paralysis to the point where some like president FDR (even though I hate him) were confined to a wheelchair.

Now let's talk the myths about vaccines:

Thiomersal-- It does contain mercury, but not all vaccines have it. You can go with the intranasal flu vaccine for example. There are several others.

Further, there is no link between Thiomersal (or mercury) and autism. Flat out. The guy who claimed there was a link was developing a Thiomersal free product and was trying to distort the data to inflate sales of his own product while tearing down the sales of another company's vaccines which contained it. Every single co-author of the study and the journal LANCET has since recanted their involvement.

I do agree that it's a black eye to medicine and pharma that the study ever made it to LANCET. LANCET is one of the top 5 most trusted publications in medicine, and they clearly dropped the ball on that trial.

If you are still worried about Thiomersal and the mercury it contains, I suggest you stop eating fish. Because with fish, you REPEATEDLY expose yourself to mercury. With most vaccines, it's one or two doses and you're done.

Aluminum Phosphate-- This compound is actually used to sensitize the immune system and make it react better to the vaccine. Aluminum is found in commonly used products such as MAALOX. So if you are worried a about the metal Al, stay away from MAALOX as well. The phosphate part is actually a crucial nutrient to several processes inside your body. I should know as I'm currently doing my thesis on phosphate.

Formaldehyde-- Used to de-activate or weaken the viruses so they can't cause the illness they are trying to prevent. It allows your body to "train" against a weaker form of the virus before the real fight begins. Formaldehyde is also commonly found in fruits in levels 10 to 100x the levels found in vaccines. It is also made by the body from the artificial sweetener aspartame. So if you're worried about formaldehyde, you better quit your pears and diet sodas or coffee with sweet-n-low too.

The choice is yours man. You can either die an excruciatingly painful death from diseases for which we have vaccines, or you can suck it up, get a harmless needle in your arm for 10 seconds, and just accept that the notion that mercury, aluminum, and formaldehyde (especially at the minuscule amount they exist in vaccines) are killing you is about as outlandish as the notion that global warming is real and that sasquatch exists.

Vaccines save lives. Period.


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## BlackDog

I don't get flu shots but I am considering going to the doc for a tetanus shot. I haven't seen a Doc in the past decade so I know I'm not current on it.
It's not something you can get a hold of for storage so I've been thinking it might be a good idea to get it done.


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## trumpetdoc

Wow. Lots here. People are always welcome to their own beliefs... It's what makes us great. 

From a physician's perspective, docs get next to next to ZERO revenue for vaccines. You can just abandon that right there. Nor do physicians make ANY money from prescribing you ANY FREAKING DRUG. Unless your doc is a spokesperson for pharma, then they benefit none in the slightest with whatever drug you are on. 

The influenza vaccine (injected not nasal) is inactivated. This does not mean that some switch was turned off... the parts of the virus that cause illness are GONE. There are parts of the virus that cause your body to mount a natural response to a foreign invader and these antibodies can be measured. This is simply the way vaccines work as does natural immunity from a previous illness. 
The vaccine itself simply cannot cause the flu. Sorry. If even one little batch was able to, there would a very significant local outbreak and this would be widely known. Anyhow, 99.999999999999 pct of the time one thinks thy have the "flu" it is simply a related and symptom-wise identical virus of which there are 100s. 
Every profession has their own scumbags but the vast majority of physicians believe in good medicine and work to the best they can in a very corrupt and litigious environment. 

And most would be quite surprised how many physicians think many medical studies are complete statistical nonsense and each specialty has jut all clubs and discussions all the time discrediting bad studies. 

Most meds we use are just focused poison. But vaccines are one of, if not the greatest advance in medicine in the last century.

Pardon any typos or autocorrect overlooks, on the move and no time to battle the iPhone.


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## dannydefense

pharmer14 said:


> Now let's talk the myths about vaccines:


I wasn't talking about myths. I wasn't attempting to scare anyone out of getting vaccines, however, and I mean this with all due respect, why is your first defense to scare me into getting them?

I don't care about the myths. What I care about is choice. When you tell me I have no choice but to stick a needle in my arm full of great gooey stuff that I don't understand (because I chose another career path), then I get mad. I know the flu shot is optional, that's why I haven't had one since I was about 6; but the push is to make these things mandatory. The propaganda campaign would have you believe that your lack of a shot puts everyone at risk and that's why it's irresponsible and why it should be mandatory.

When you tell a parent they have no right to their child until they get all the fun stuff that the hospital wants to give them, I get even madder.

You can have your vaccines. I have nothing against them if you want them. Forcing them upon others in a supposed free country is something I will fight, no matter how many lives they allegedly save.


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## Smitty901

27 years and more countries than I can remember, the Army shot me up with a long list of Vaccinations. Before the days of computer chip records if you deployed and your paper records did not keep up with you you got them all again. Couple times the arm was still bleeding from the last round. No excuse line up. Anthrax series 3 times as an example.
At my age I have had very minor illness in my life time. I credit those Vaccinations for that. I have also noticed while in line to get my next round, the senior medical officers were always in line also.
I am also old enough to know a couple people infected with polio. There is no doubt they wish they had the Vaccination. I could list many more from seeing the infection in places we were. We lived and eat among them and stayed uninfected.
I will line up form mine as did my children and grandchildren.


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## dannydefense

Smitty901 said:


> 27 years and more countries than I can remember, the Army shot me up with a long list of Vaccinations. Before the days of computer chip records if you deployed and your paper records did not keep up with you you got them all again. Couple times the arm was still bleeding from the last round. No excuse line up. Anthrax series 3 times as an example.
> At my age I have had very minor illness in my life time. I credit those Vaccinations for that. I have also noticed while in line to get my next round, the senior medical officers were always in line also.
> I am also old enough to know a couple people infected with polio. There is no doubt they wish they had the Vaccination. I could list many more from seeing the infection in places we were. We lived and eat among them and stayed uninfected.
> I will line up form mine as did my children and grandchildren.


I'm going to reiterate; I'm not anti-vaccination. I'm not into conspiracy theories that wonder if they're injecting us with crap that they're not telling us about.

I am however extremely upset with a country that is trying to force these things on its citizens. Your child is yours, not the states, not the federal governments, and you have every right to take them home from the hospital without being forcibly drugged.

These things could guarantee you would be Einstein smart and Hercules strong, and give you a golden ticket to Heaven. Making it mandatory is not free, and I would still fight it.


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## trumpetdoc

dannydefense said:


> I don't care about the myths. What I care about is choice.


Right on. Just keep in mind, your doctors have nothing to do with mandates placed upon us and the patients. We are force to abide by rules and guidelines set up many times by those who are long out if practice, and in the case of CMS (centers for Medicare/caid services) non physicians dictating practice.

From personal experience, most docs lean Libertarian then conservative, by far. Choice is important. And so long as people understand the potential consequences of their choices that's fine...and here is a legal quagmire as there are multiple cases of well documented, informed refusal of xyz by patients, only to have a bad outcome arise BC of said refusal, and wouldn't you know it...the DOC gets sued!

Now, with vaccines, this is a mandate, but would be pushed hard as there is true public health benefit if it was not mandated.

So many physicians are fed up, I mean really fed up, with the malignant govt invasion of medical care. It's beyond simply getting laid by Medicare or forcing a doc to see x pts per day. Without going on with a diatribe (my blood boils thinking about it) just trust me that there is a very good chance your doc and you have a lot in common


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## Rob Roy

pharmer14 said:


> Yes. I am finishing my graduate degree in pharmacy. I'll start practicing in May.


congratulations.



pharmer14 said:


> Wanna talk Polio? Polio causes paralysis to the point where some like president FDR (even though I hate him) were confined to a wheelchair.


I am not a subscriber to CNN but they were the first link to pop up, so what the heck..

CNN.com - Maybe FDR didn't have polio, scientists say - Oct. 31, 2003

PS- I love ending your point with the over-simplification of the subject followed by the word "period." It makes it all seem so final and settled.

Keep up the good work


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## dannydefense

trumpetdoc said:


> Right on. Just keep in mind, your doctors have nothing to do with mandates placed upon us and the patients. We are force to abide by rules and guidelines set up many times by those who are long out if practice, and in the case of CMS (centers for Medicare/caid services) non physicians dictating practice.


I don't place blame on any particular group simply because that group exists. I am sure there are some doctors who firmly believe that they are smarter than everyone else, and in our stupidity we shouldn't be allowed to hurt ourselves. Kind of like what the federal government is doing to the nation right now. On the other hand, I also believe there are some doctors who are brilliant scientists and respect the fact that it's my life and my choices are mine to own.

My beef is with the former, not the latter. Just like a particular race cannot be blamed for the actions of a few, a group of professionals should not be either.



trumpetdoc said:


> From personal experience, most docs lean Libertarian then conservative, by far. Choice is important. And so long as people understand the potential consequences of their choices that's fine...and here is a legal quagmire as there are multiple cases of well documented, informed refusal of xyz by patients, only to have a bad outcome arise BC of said refusal, and wouldn't you know it...the DOC gets sued!


That problem is pervasive throughout our entire species. We have shunned the ability to accept responsibility for our actions, and every time we do something stupid we expect that we can blame somebody else. I see this microcosm every day where I work -- any time a task becomes overdue I hear excuses from all my subordinates as to why it wasn't their fault. I haven't a bloody care whose fault it is, I care if you act on the issue or not.

The macrocosm can be seen in part when you browse a list of current class action lawsuits and personal injury client lists. _"I didn't make a stupid decision! Honest! This person is somehow directly responsible for my idiotic choices, and since they have money I want them to pay me!!"_

We have let this problem go on for far too long, and I wish our courts could be run in a completely unbiased and objective manner. If that was possible by a human, we could introduce the common sense clause. Judges could throw out your case the very instant you made it obvious you were an idiot and it was your own bloody fault. No more excuses, no more fine print needed.

It's your responsibility to understand the implications of any decision you make and if you chose to forgo that responsibility, you have absolutely no right to expect anyone to bail you out.



trumpetdoc said:


> Now, with vaccines, this is a mandate, but would be pushed hard as there is true public health benefit if it was not mandate.


There is an obvious public benefit to banning smoking and drinking, but we don't, because we live in a free country where people are expected to undertake their own safekeeping. Should we expect our government to protect us from ourselves, or should we be capable of doing so individually?


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## pharmer14

dannydefense said:


> I wasn't talking about myths. I wasn't attempting to scare anyone out of getting vaccines, however, and I mean this with all due respect, why is your first defense to scare me into getting them?
> 
> I don't care about the myths. What I care about is choice. When you tell me I have no choice but to stick a needle in my arm full of great gooey stuff that I don't understand (because I chose another career path), then I get mad. I know the flu shot is optional, that's why I haven't had one since I was about 6; but the push is to make these things mandatory. The propaganda campaign would have you believe that your lack of a shot puts everyone at risk and that's why it's irresponsible and why it should be mandatory.
> 
> When you tell a parent they have no right to their child until they get all the fun stuff that the hospital wants to give them, I get even madder.
> 
> You can have your vaccines. I have nothing against them if you want them. Forcing them upon others in a supposed free country is something I will fight, no matter how many lives they allegedly save.


I'm not and never will advocate removing your right to choose to vaccinate. What I am about is encouraging you to make an INFORMED decision. And there are a lot of myths out there. I did my best to dispel as many of them as possible.

And that lack of vaccination does often put others at increased risk. As I've pointed out before, vaccines are not 100% effective. Even after you receive them, there is still a (much smaller) chance of infection. So if you happen to get sick, you expose others to an increased risk of acquiring the infection.

Vaccines aren't about eliminating risks. They're about minimizing them.


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## pharmer14

Rob Roy said:


> congratulations.
> 
> I am not a subscriber to CNN but they were the first link to pop up, so what the heck..
> 
> CNN.com - Maybe FDR didn't have polio, scientists say - Oct. 31, 2003
> 
> PS- I love ending your point with the over-simplification of the subject followed by the word "period." It makes it all seem so final and settled.
> 
> Keep up the good work


I don't mean to insult anyone. Clearly I need to develop a little more tact in my internet rants. That goes for both medical posts and others as well.

But the fact is medicine has come a long way from the days when it was an art and we just guessed about stuff willy nilly. It is now heavily influenced by science. As such, we have opportunities to develop evidence based interventions.

Vaccines are no exception. We have (at least partially) harnessed the body's immune system and can use it to work in our favor. And we didn't develop the first vaccine intentionally to feed big pharma. It happened quite by accident. A scientist noticed that the rate of smallpox was lower in the women who milked cows for a living. After investigation, he found that cows had a similar disease. Exposure to cowpox made these women's immune systems react to form antibodies which also targeted the human smallpox virus.

And in terms of the CHOICE argument, vaccines are barely different than any other preventative drugs. Do you also CHOOSE for instance not to take antihistamines to prevent allergy symptoms? What about daily aspirin (assuming you aren't allergic) to prevent a heart attack?

Some people paint everyday pharmacists as pill pushers. To be honest, I'd give the world to not have to sell a pill or a vaccine. But the reality is we live in the world we do. People eat garbage food and refuse to exercise so we need blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol medications among others. Infections are very real, so we need antibiotics and vaccines.


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## dannydefense

pharmer14 said:


> Some people paint everyday pharmacists as pill pushers.


Pharmacists? No. Doctors? You bet.

My wife was in the hospital recently because she was having abnormal abdominal pains. The doctor said nothing was wrong after they saw her CT, and told her she was being discharged. When my wife asked why she was having these pains, the doc said "I don't know, but if you want I'll write you a prescription for Vicodin?". When my wife said no thank you, she then offered her a shot of morphine before she left. This actually happened. So yes, I'm under a very real impression that there are a lot of pill pushers out there.



pharmer14 said:


> To be honest, I'd give the world to not have to sell a pill or a vaccine.


You would give the world to be out of a job?



pharmer14 said:


> People eat garbage food and refuse to exercise so we need blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol medications among others.


No, we don't need drugs to fix these problems. As you can see, just like vaccines, it's not curing anyone. It's helping them do it longer, sure, before their hearts finally explode, but it sure as shootin isn't fixing anybody.

My apologies if I'm a little cynical.


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