# Why is Healthcare so expensive?



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I found an interesting article on some of the reasons why doctors charge outrageous amounts of money for Healthcare.

Here's a couple pics from the article.

















And here is the article: Why is Health Care so expensive? - Consumer Reports

It's an interesting read to say the least...


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

When I was with the city I served we had about 75 employees who got pretty good health insurance and it was $1600 a month. I asked the city manager couldn't we hire a doctor, a nurse, a few assistants and put a clinic just for thrm, and then buy catastrophic insurance for like $250 a person? Sounded great. Couldn't buy catastrophic care insurance, clinic can't turn away indigent patients, and so our little town would spend 1.4 million a year on health insurance. It sucks.


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## turbo6 (Jun 27, 2014)

We treat it as a business so that's what we are left with. Until that changes we are stuck with it.

Healthcare right now is all about consolidation and monopolies. See the recent buying of Rite Aid by Walgreens. Less choice is always bad for consumers.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

If you ever look at what doctors/hospitals charge for services and what your insurance company has "negotiated" with them that they will accept, you would scratch your head and say... why?

I'm confused.

*Rancher*


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

Greed, pure and simple.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

azrancher said:


> If you ever look at what doctors/hospitals charge for services and what your insurance company has "negotiated" with them that they will accept, you would scratch your head and say... why?
> 
> I'm confused.
> 
> *Rancher*


you got that right. I used to just pay cash for my dental check up/cleanings were 107 and fillings were another 70 with xrays another 70. That wasn't too bad. Last year I decided to get dental insurance after 10 years of paying cash. I pay about 900 bucks a year for the wife and I but the coverage is 100% of everything not considered major surgery. If I was to pay cash for a crown my dentist charges 800 dollars but the insurance will only pay him 450 and I do not get charged any thin out of pocket (co pays or deductibles). For a cleaning check up the insurance pays him 44 bucks and fillings 30 bucks, xrays only 40 bucks. So why wouldn't my dentist just charge me the same rates if I paid him verses him having to file to get money from the insurance company? Doesn't make any sense.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

dsdmmat said:


> you got that right. I used to just pay cash for my dental check up/cleanings were 107 and fillings were another 70 with xrays another 70. That wasn't too bad. Last year I decided to get dental insurance after 10 years of paying cash. I pay about 900 bucks a year for the wife and I but the coverage is 100% of everything not considered major surgery. If I was to pay cash for a crown my dentist charges 800 dollars but the insurance will only pay him 450 and I do not get charged any thin out of pocket (co pays or deductibles). For a cleaning check up the insurance pays him 44 bucks and fillings 30 bucks, xrays only 40 bucks. So why wouldn't my dentist just charge me the same rates if I paid him verses him having to file to get money from the insurance company? Doesn't make any sense.


That's easy. If he only charged $450 for the crown the insurance company he participates with will only allow their customers to be charged $200. If he elects to give you the discount insurance companies get and mails the claim in for $800 but charges cash patients $450, the insurance company will claim fraud and demand tens of thousands of dollars back. If the dentist refuses to refund monies on that scale, the insurance company reports this to the federal government which will persecute the dentist for mail fraud. Huge fines, repay the insurance company and jail time.

Therefore to get decent reimbursement from the insurance company, the provider must set the fees very high for cash customers so the insurance company can gouge a huge cut but leave the provider with some money to pay overhead and go home with a buck. If the provider decides not to participate, many people will go to some one else who does and the original provider makes nothing. Its a catch 22 for the doctor. Accept insurance and play the game or do not participate and risk having very few patients.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

But why does a hospital charge 30+ bucks for a Tylenol? Or charge 100 dollars for an ankle brace you could buy for $15?

Just some very small examples.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Same reason. If they charge a buck they would get a penny from insurance. It would cost more to file the paper work than what you are reimbursed. I know its crazy but it is the reality of health insurance. Plus look at all the rules and regulations that must be followed. It is almost mission impossible to comply with all regulations while providing a quality service to some one. So I say if you want to buy an over the counter brace out of pocket, go for it and do not pay the hospital. If you expect it to be provided, its going to be expensive. I have done that myself with certain things. I think its all unfair just for the record but that is the system and penalties in place.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Lots of reasons.

a) The nurse who brought you the tylenol wants to be paid, have health insurance, 5 weeks paid time off, retirement benefits and in CA she / he can only serve 4 to 6 people in a fixed period of time.

b) The pharmacist that issued the tylenol to the nurse wants to be paid, have health insurance, 5 weeks paid time off, retirement benefits and only wants to issue a certain number of tylenols' a day.

c) The bill tracker who keeps your records wants to get paid (got that part down?) and yes they can only track so many bills.

d) Then after all those people get paid don't forget the doctor - biggest one of all.

e) Now after all that someone has to pay for the room, the hallway, the waiting room, public restroom, private restroom, kitchen, dinning, area, fire escapes etc etc etc - don't forget the parking as they don't ever have enough.

f) But wait, there is more, we pass laws saying they can't turn anyone away just because they can't pay. So someone's got to pay? Add something to your tylenol to cover those costs and they are significant.

g) Yeah I know - I forgot plenty.



Arklatex said:


> But why does a hospital charge 30+ bucks for a Tylenol? Or charge 100 dollars for an ankle brace you could buy for $15?
> 
> Just some very small examples.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Ripon said:


> Lots of reasons.
> 
> a) The nurse who brought you the tylenol wants to be paid, have health insurance, 5 weeks paid time off, retirement benefits and in CA she / he can only serve 4 to 6 people in a fixed period of time.
> 
> ...


All that plus a Litigious Society...


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Slippy said:


> All that plus a Litigious Society...


It is easy for me to forget lawyers. Sorry


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

KatoriN1996 said:


> Yes, health care is really very expensive nowadays, but I can suggest a good solution! You can found some discount coupons here: Generic Doctor Archives - RX Discount Coupons | RX Discount Coupons


OK Kator....thats #3. This is not an advertising marketplace, come out and introduce yourself and make some friends. If you truly have something beneficial to us, it will sell itself. Know that we won't look until we know you we are dealing with. Just some good advice here.

Hope to meet you soon over in the Intro thread.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We make insurance companies cover sex change operations . we force birth control coverage on 60 year old male. We pass affordable health care aka Obama care and pay off rich insurance companies to go along with it. Rates have gone up for many 150% so far. Many lost their coverage and were forced on Obama care at inflated prices with deductibles they can not afford. Many lost coverage for base healthcare needs.
This was a move by Obama to control one of the largest sectors of our economy. His next plan is to take everything you worked for to pay for healthcare you will not get. 
Insurance companies were forced to go along with Obama care and were paid well for going along with it.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

They charge so much because they can.
What is the alternative?


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Profits. The nurses make nothing and the Dr doesn't make $20 million. I call it extreme capitalism. Some grubbing at pennies so others pay hundreds or thousands more.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

James m said:


> Profits. The nurses make nothing and the Dr doesn't make $20 million. I call it extreme capitalism. Some grubbing at pennies so others pay hundreds or thousands more.


I've got friends who are experienced RN nurses (mother and daughter), Both have top line health insurance. The less experienced floor nurse makes $56,000/yr. The more experienced ER nurse made $67,000/yr before she went further with her education. At $56,000 year or higher I suspect they make enough considering the additional benefits.

Local General Practice Docs make about $90,000 - $160,000/yr.....

But hospitals charge a fortune for a bed that is less comfortable than the local Motel 6 bed.


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## PrepperFF712 (Nov 12, 2015)

Please do not take this as an arrogant question.... I agree with all you are saying. 

But, what is your Federal and State Income Tax and Sales tax like? 

I ask this because here in Canada we are taxed quite high. Minimum Federal Income Tax starts at 26%, not to mention we pay 13% tax in Ontario on everything we purchase. So if we buy a $50,000 truck, the sticker price is 50K PLUS Tax, equalling $56,500 for the truck. This is how we pay for Healthcare. 

I do have to pay a healthcare benefit plan on my paycheque of $150/month though. Perscriptions, Dental etc.


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## jtwest (Dec 13, 2015)

My understanding is Canada is much like a lot of Europe: High taxes low medical costs. Ours, in the last five years or so has become more like that, but previous was much more having the choice to fork out hard earned money for medical or be sick/ die etc.


As to the primary thread question, I have pondered this a lot. I scanned most all responses and I think my theory was touched upon but not developed. I do however agree with a lot of what has been said. I dont want to sound like I am defending medical professionals but there is one thing I see in many professions. I have been in 4 career fields now and I see similar circumstances in all. so for examples (keeping in mind the ratio of medical professionals to the population is getting smaller and smaller. cost on medical schooling is going up. quality of medical schooling is going down. number of people willing to go through the schooling is going down. average health/diet i going down, Guaranteed payments to the medical professional going down with forced insurance) 

"I have a headache", "I have a papercut", "I feel too sick to go to work today. Can I please get a note for HR?", "I think I have cancer", " I saw on MSN news....and I Think I might have it", " I just cant get out of bed, there must be something wrong with me". Lethargy is bludgeoning a profession with an overpopulated mallet. And current societal views and even laws are forcing the profession to take it....They have no choice but to boost prices!!! especially with the value of the dollar going down...
I know a lot of people think its "greed", but its getting to the point that I would rather wipe my butt with a dollar to save the cost of toilet paper. I see a lot about stashing money on this forum but the more unbased money is printed, to give to a growing population of people we are forced to feed, the less it is worth.
Back to the point at hand...Many professions get "demands" that arent worth the dollar given by people that didnt have to earn it. Overwhelming to the professional that feels like he has to meet every demand. All he can do is increase prices so that people start thinking if its really worth paying the plumber to unclog a drain they can unclog themselves.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

To help put it in perspective. The provincial income tax of all Albertans barely covers the healthcare budget. The remaining taxes from natural resources and businesses float the rest of the province's budget.

So it is safe to say that healthcare costs are out of control.


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