# SHTF USA and the Bible



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Trying to generate a conversation about the differing points of view about the Bible and what people think will happen. The more you know, the easier it is to prepare for:

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4998/t/the-usa-in-bible-prophecy This view is skewed

https://www.endtime.com/united-states-discovered-in-the-bible/ Wishful thinking

http://www.americainprophecy.com/AmericainBibleProphecy/preparingfortrial.asp After 20 pages, I don't know what it has to do with America

This guy admits one thing:

_"No one can answer that authoritatively, but I can offer a few opinions_."

Read more at https://www.wnd.com/2014/09/where-is-america-in-end-times-prophecy/#1kCSM18LCXMWDWVq.99

This guy has an opinion based upon the Bible and known history:

https://www.wnd.com/2013/08/glenn-beck-u-s-is-lost-tribe-of-israel/

Now THERE isan idea worth pursuing for a serious prepper like me.

Then I found this:

http://kingdomhereamerica.blogspot.com/p/america-new-jerusalem.html

Y'all have to remember, I'm basically a Luddite. What I learned was in Bible College, not off the Net. But those last two links are more in line with what is taught in Bible schools in places like Great Britain and Australia.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

How is anything in your links any more credible than a prediction by Nostradamus?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Trying to generate a conversation about the differing points of view about the Bible and what people think will happen. The more you know, the easier it is to prepare for:
> 
> https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4998/t/the-usa-in-bible-prophecy This view is skewed
> 
> ...


Have you thought about having your own TV show? Or do you have a show already? If not, you would do well at it. And the Gulfstream would suit you well.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> Have you thought about having your own TV show? Or do you have a show already? If not, you would do well at it. And the Gulfstream would suit you well.


I am working on a degree in theology. If I keep up the good grades, I'm done in September. Then I will be looking to do a podcast and we already have a video team assembled so that sermons will be on You Tube. We will be looking at starting both a prison ministry as well as a program to take people off the streets and help them become self sufficient.

I am already ordained as a minister, but I wanted to be at the top of my game - and the church I was ordained in decided to hook up with the Mormons. Nothing against the Mormons. They are due respect and acceptance. I simply do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet.

Having been in the military, a civilian militia, the ministry and having been ordained along with now even more training in that field, it gives me a foundation for knowing how and why one becomes a competent prepper. When you prep, you need to know, exactly, what you're prepping for.

There was no point in acquiring the knowledge and the skill sets provided to me by some of the world's best if I did not do what they asked me to do. As a S.P.I.K.E. graduate, we were told to go out and teach those skills to our patriot brethren. As a Christian, we are called upon to spread the good news. As a minister, I'm required to preach the gospel... even shout it from the rooftops.

But, that isn't the point. The point is, we are living on a piece of land that is destined for a major conflict. Many will die; many will suffer. A few will survive. Each of us has the ability to decide to increase our chances for survival. THAT is the real issue.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> I am working on a degree in theology. If I keep up the good grades, I'm done in September. Then I will be looking to do a podcast and we already have a video team assembled so that sermons will be on You Tube. We will be looking at starting both a prison ministry as well as a program to take people off the streets and help them become self sufficient.
> 
> I am already ordained as a minister, but I wanted to be at the top of my game - and the church I was ordained in decided to hook up with the Mormons. Nothing against the Mormons. They are due respect and acceptance. I simply do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet.
> 
> ...


Well it seems you have what it takes to be a TV evangelist. You should make a ton of money.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

The Resister said:


> I am already ordained as a minister


 So is John Bobbitt

Puts it all in perspective doesn't it.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

The Resister said:


> Trying to generate a conversation about the differing points of view about the Bible and what people think will happen. The more you know, the easier it is to prepare for:
> 
> This guy has an opinion based upon the Bible and known history:
> 
> ...


Glenn Beck is a great guy, but he gets some things very wrong; America is not a lost tribe of Israel, it cannot be. BTW, what is a Lost Tribe? I have heard that so many times, and I don't known the origin of it.
There are 12 tribes, 10 are full ones and 2 are half-tribes. Don't get lost in the woods, by looking at all of the trees there; it will drive you nuts to look at too many opinions. 
There is determinable nation known or thought to be America in the Revelation of John. And that has some pretty ominous overtones, America may be destined for destruction, who can tell. Russia could do it all by itself, it has enough nukes; or America could be hit by multiple enemies. That is something that keep on the table, when I war game, and ponder, ie, there may not be an America. It might get nuked.

Now, about Luddites who were: workers who destroyed labour-saving machinery in 19th-century England to try to prevent machines from taking over their jobs. Nowadays the term is used to describe anyone who resists technological development.
You are being facetious [sardonic maybe?], but I get it. Methinks that you are not one of those Luddites, or you would not be on this forum,;since you have to get on the Web to use the site.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

The Resister said:


> Trying to generate a conversation about the differing points of view about the Bible and what people think will happen. The more you know, the easier it is to prepare for:
> 
> This guy has an opinion based upon the Bible and known history:
> 
> ...


Glenn Beck is a great guy, but he gets some things very wrong; America is not a lost tribe of Israel, it cannot be. BTW, what is a Lost Tribe? I have heard that so many times, and I don't known the origin of it.

There are 12 tribes, 10 are full ones and 2 are half-tribes. Don't get lost in the woods, by looking at all of the trees there; it will drive you nuts to look at too many opinions.

There is no determinable nation known, or thought to be America in the Revelation of John. And that has some pretty ominous overtones, America may be destined for destruction, who can tell. Russia could do it all by itself, it has enough nukes; or America could be hit by multiple enemies.

That is something that I keep on the table, when I war game, and ponder; ie, there may not be an America, it might get nuked. And I am in direct opposition to Glenn's theory, I know that, but my way of thinking is common.

Now, about Luddites who were: workers who destroyed labour-saving machinery in 19th-century England to try to prevent machines from taking over their jobs. Nowadays the term is used to describe anyone who resists technological development.

You are being facetious [sardonic maybe?], but I get it. Methinks that you are not one of those Luddites, or you would not be on this forum,;since you have to get on the Web to use the site.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> Well it seems you have what it takes to be a TV evangelist. You should make a ton of money.


What if I'm not in it for the money?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.
I ain’t worried.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

MisterMills357 said:


> Glenn Beck is a great guy, but he gets some things very wrong; America is not a lost tribe of Israel, it cannot be. BTW, what is a Lost Tribe? I have heard that so many times, and I don't known the origin of it.
> 
> There are 12 tribes, 10 are full ones and 2 are half-tribes. Don't get lost in the woods, by looking at all of the trees there; it will drive you nuts to look at too many opinions.
> 
> ...


You think somebody pulled out the twelve tribes from their nether regions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_of_Israel

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-twelve-tribes-of-israel

https://www.twelvetribes.com/

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Twelve-Tribes-of-Israel

Wikipedia, Britinannica, Jews and Christians all looked at the same Old Testament that you did and found them. In the modern world, a lot of people lay claim to being part of those Tribes... and had my original posting on this not been taken down, it would appear here in language that cannot be disputed. There were twelve tribes.

"_James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting_." James 1 : 1

Yes, America can be a tribe of Israel and IS. The founders, by and large believed it. They built a nation around that presupposition.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

The Resister said:


> The point is, we are living on a piece of land that is destined for a major conflict. Many will die; many will suffer. A few will survive. Each of us has the ability to decide to increase our chances for survival. THAT is the real issue.


That is one of those topics that baffles me about reality and the written word.

I was listening to Relevant Radio one night and Fr. Simon said that self-defense is permitted, but revenge is the Lord's. Fair enough.

The problem is that I have a temper. And if some of these massacre nuts bursts into our food court, how do I dispassionately put the Crimson Trace on his sternum and fire while keeping my emotions in neutral?

As for survival, if I miss and die, then other innocents will die. For me this is a no-win, circular argument. Hold my temper while holding my fire and everyone dies. Take a chance on maintaining my "fight or flight" and I might kill with all the anger I can muster.

I volunteered at the vets' hospital. There were WWII guys who still suffered from PTSD, and those guys are a lot braver and more experienced than I am.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> That is one of those topics that baffles me about reality and the written word.
> 
> I was listening to Relevant Radio one night and Fr. Simon said that self-defense is permitted, but revenge is the Lord's. Fair enough.
> 
> ...


Jesus order his apostles to carry a sword, even if they had to hock their robes in order to buy one.

"_Then said he to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one_." Luke 22: 36

I don't think Jesus would order his apostles to make such a sacrifice for an implement they would never have an occasion to use. There is a time and a place for everything - See Ecclesiastes 3.

A preacher heard me say as a very young kid that I was against the death penalty. He then approached me and said that if someone were attacking my mother or my sister and I feared for their life that I would kill them in order to stop them. He then taught me the time and conditions that I was required, by Bible law, to use deadly force. And, of course, he taught me about the death penalty for certain crimes.

Having come up with a *really* hard core bad axxx for a father I was taught how to fight. It is the one area that I'm most vulnerable at. I haven't been able to back away from challenges if I feel someone is threatening me. Killing someone is a scary thought, however. As a prepper and a Christian, I've had to weigh out all my options in the what if scenarios. Would you kill someone rather than give them your food when fod may be impossible to come by? You would kill, maybe, if your life were in imminent danger or someone was really hurting a loved one.

As a prepper, it should be one of the first questions you ponder. I would not want the death of another human being on my conscience. Neither would I want to die or let someone else die at the hands of someone we would consider bad... rapist, murderer, someone committing violence in a rage, tyrants, etc. I can tell you what I believe. Would I do it? The only way we would know for sure is if it happened.

In your case, you should really ponder it. Think about it. Pray about it. Look at Scripture.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

I must be on someone's ignore list. I asked a serious question.


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)

I believe there is a thread from a couple of months ago titled "The last few weeks..."

Check it out, it gives insight as to what many of us here believe.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

The Resister said:


> "_Then said he to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one_." Luke 22: 36


There has been a disagreement on this quote in our church. Yes, one of the apostles was armed, he cut off the ear of some one trying to arrest Jesus.

To that, our pastor pointed out that the phrase means more like, "Man does not live by bread alone." This because the mandates of God are considered to be "The Sword of the Lord." In that case, Jesus meant his followers should get the Scriptures. It also says that God's tongue is like a "double edged sword."

I'm leaning that Jesus meant "the scriptures." Having said that, I cannot deny that even the Bible says the apostle was armed.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> There has been a disagreement on this quote in our church. Yes, one of the apostles was armed, he cut off the ear of some one trying to arrest Jesus.
> 
> To that, our pastor pointed out that the phrase means more like, "Man does not live by bread alone." This because the mandates of God are considered to be "The Sword of the Lord." In that case, Jesus meant his followers should get the Scriptures. It also says that God's tongue is like a "double edged sword."
> 
> I'm leaning that Jesus meant "the scriptures." Having said that, I cannot deny that even the Bible says the apostle was armed.


You believe that Jesus meant for his disciples to carry numerous amounts of scrolls with them on their journey?
Remember, the bible we carry today would not have existed then. They didn't have a bound book of pages nicely written and arranged to read their OT scriptures from.
I don't see this as being a metaphor. In the text that follows the quoted verse, _38: So they said, "Look, Lord, here are two swords." Then he told them, "It is enough." _

The Greek, when literally translated, "sword" is actually "slaughter-knife".

I do not agree that this was a metaphor of some kind. The type of sword mentioned is not one that would be carried into battle, like a scimitar, but rather one that could be used as a last resort to defend one's life.

On a side note, it is good to see the OP conforming to board rules, and bringing a more civil discussion forth this time.
Kudos!


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

The Resister said:


> What if I'm not in it for the money?


You're all in it for the money or the power you have over others. What flavor of kool aid will you be serving?


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Real Old Man said:


> You're all in it for the money or the power you have over others. What flavor of kool aid will you be serving?


I'll tell my mentor that. I've known him since 1976. He's way up there in his 80s now. You know that Pastor never passed a collection plate.

Me, I'm too old to worry about making lots of money. Wouldn't know what to do with it.

I will make you up a batch of grape Kool Aid.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> There has been a disagreement on this quote in our church. Yes, one of the apostles was armed, he cut off the ear of some one trying to arrest Jesus.
> 
> To that, our pastor pointed out that the phrase means more like, "Man does not live by bread alone." This because the mandates of God are considered to be "The Sword of the Lord." In that case, Jesus meant his followers should get the Scriptures. It also says that God's tongue is like a "double edged sword."
> 
> I'm leaning that Jesus meant "the scriptures." Having said that, I cannot deny that even the Bible says the apostle was armed.


I'm not trying to preach to you, but the Bible teaches us that "_*All *scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness_"

In Genesis 14 Abraham armed himself and his servants in order to free Lot (Abraham's nephew) who had been taken captive. AFTER Abraham had defeated the captors Melchizedek, the priest of the most high God, blessed Abraham:

"Genesis 14: _19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all_."

God obviously approved of Abraham's actions. If not He could have rebuked Abraham for taking up arms under those circumstances - and maybe, suggested a peace treaty.

Sampson took the jawbone of an ass and killed a thousand Philistines (Judges chapter 14.) It wasn't his first rodeo either.

In the New Testament we are given an example by Jesus regarding being adequately armed in order to defend one's home:

Luke _"21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe. 22 But when someone stronger attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted and divides up his plunder._"

And teaching by example, have you forgotten about that time Jesus used a scourge (which was a whip used by the Romans containing five cords with small hard objects tied to the end of each cord to inflict severe punishment.) According to John 2: 15: "_And when he had made a whip of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables._.."

Again, there is a time and a place for everything. If a man steals your coat, it might be appropriate to hand him the matching hat, but if he wants to rape your daughter on the way out, then you start thinking about II Timothy 2 : 15 "_Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, *rightly dividing the word of truth*_."


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> I'm not trying to preach to you, but the Bible teaches us that "_*All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness*_"


I won't argue this point at all. And up front, so I don't get accused of being a heathen, I study my Bible daily. For reference, I use the NIV Study Bible.

What I will state is that man interprets what is written. Back then there were no computers, printing presses or word processors. Each and every scroll written had to be copied by hand. It was time consuming and tedious. I have no doubt that mistakes were made when copied. Look at Mark 16 Most Bibles state after verse 8 [_The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9-20._]

Then there is translation. The Bible is written in different languages. How it's translated is up to the translator. Some things get lost in translation or misinterpreted. People are human and things happen.

From Wiki



> Professor John K. Riches, Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of Glasgow, says that "the biblical texts themselves are the result of a creative dialogue between ancient traditions and different communities through the ages",[17] and "the biblical texts were produced over a period in which the living conditions of the writers - political, cultural, economic, and ecological - varied enormously".[18] Timothy H. Lim, a professor of Hebrew Bible and Second Temple Judaism at the University of Edinburgh, says that the Old Testament is "a collection of authoritative texts of apparently divine origin that went through a human process of writing and editing."[19] He states that it is not a magical book, nor was it literally written by God and passed to mankind. Parallel to the solidification of the Hebrew canon (c. 3rd century BCE), only the Torah first and then the Tanakh began to be translated into Greek and expanded, now referred to as the Septuagint or the Greek Old Testament.[20]
> 
> In Christian Bibles, the New Testament Gospels were derived from oral traditions in the second half of the first century CE. Riches says that:
> 
> Scholars have attempted to reconstruct something of the history of the oral traditions behind the Gospels, but the results have not been too encouraging. The period of transmission is short: less than 40 years passed between the death of Jesus and the writing of Mark's Gospel. This means that there was little time for oral traditions to assume fixed form.[21]


Then you have the discussion of what was allowed in the Bible and what was left out. Some, like the Ethiopians have a much more thorough book than we do. What was decided was by the First Council of Nicaea. Even though the Roman Catholics had a large say in what was included, they too have different books in their version of the Bible.

The book of Esther was almost left out of the Bible. Originally, if memory serves me correctly, God was not mention in the text. Additions were made.

From Wiki



> An additional six chapters appear interspersed in Esther in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Bible. This was noted by Jerome in compiling the Latin Vulgate. Additionally, the Greek text contains many small changes in the meaning of the main text. Jerome recognized the former as additions not present in the Hebrew Text and placed them at the end of his Latin translation. This placement and numbering system is used in Catholic Bible translations based primarily on the Vulgate, such as the Douay-Rheims Bible and the Knox Bible. In contrast, the 1979 revision of the Vulgate, the Nova Vulgata, incorporates the additions to Esther directly into the narrative itself, as do most modern Catholic English translations based on the original Hebrew and Greek (e.g., Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition, New American Bible, New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition). The numbering system for the additions differs with each translation. The Nova Vulgata accounts for the additional verses by numbering them as extensions of the verses immediately following or preceding them (e.g., Esther 11:2-12 in the old Vulgate becomes Esther 1:1a-1k in the Nova Vulgata), while the NAB and its successor, the NABRE, assign letters of the alphabet as chapter headings for the additions (e.g., Esther 11:2-12:6 in the Vulgate becomes Esther A:1-17). The RSVCE and the NRSVCE place the additional material into the narrative, but retain the chapter and verse numbering of the old Vulgate.
> 
> These additions include:[36]
> 
> ...


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Oh, I know of many passages that discuss weaponry and warfare. After all, God rebuked Joshua for "not killing fast enough" after they crossed the river, got comfy and started to marry within the cults.

David and Goliath is another well known example for standing your ground.

My position was that the word "sword" is also used to mean God's word. This is another reason why I listen to excerpts from Fr. Simon when he translates passages in Greek. You're familiar with the exchange Christ had with an apostle, and asked him three times if he loved Him, and the apostle answered three times that he did. Well, that's the way it translates in English. Christ asked him if he agape' loved Him, and the Apostle responded he fila loved him. Agape' love is the love of sacrifice, where fila love is the love of friendship. This is why Christ finishes the discourse with "I will teach you."


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> I won't argue this point at all. And up front, so I don't get accused of being a heathen, I study my Bible daily. For reference, I use the NIV Study Bible.
> 
> What I will state is that man interprets what is written. Back then there were no computers, printing presses or word processors. Each and every scroll written had to be copied by hand. It was time consuming and tedious. I have no doubt that mistakes were made when copied. Look at Mark 16 Most Bibles state after verse 8 [_The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9-20._]
> 
> ...


That's all well and good, but irrelevant to this topic. And NIV??? It's not a very good translation comparably speaking.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> Oh, I know of many passages that discuss weaponry and warfare. After all, God rebuked Joshua for "not killing fast enough" after they crossed the river, got comfy and started to marry within the cults.
> 
> David and Goliath is another well known example for standing your ground.
> 
> My position was that the word "sword" is also used to mean God's word. This is another reason why I listen to excerpts from Fr. Simon when he translates passages in Greek. You're familiar with the exchange Christ had with an apostle, and asked him three times if he loved Him, and the apostle answered three times that he did. Well, that's the way it translates in English. Christ asked him if he agape' loved Him, and the Apostle responded he fila loved him. Agape' love is the love of sacrifice, where fila love is the love of friendship. This is why Christ finishes the discourse with "I will teach you."


The literal language of Luke (especially when in the same book of the Bible we're talking about protecting one's home) supports the fact that Jesus was talking about a literal sword.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

The Resister said:


> The literal language of Luke (especially when in the same book of the Bible we're talking about protecting one's home) supports the fact that Jesus was talking about a literal sword.


Thank you for the lead, I will check it out.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

I opened this thread with a host of differing opinions regarding the Twelve Tribes of Israel.

The last cited link was:

Our Father's Kingdom of America: America the New Jerusalem

I have maintained that America is the New Jerusalem of the Bible and that when you prep, you are well advised to know something about your destiny in this country that was founded on Christian principles.

We've gone from somebody thinking I pulled that Twelve Tribes history out of my backside to a debate about which Bible is the right one - and what about this book not in the AKJV, etc. Well, I have scores of non-canonical books of the Bible,_The Lost Books of the Bible_ and the_ Forgotten Books of Eden_ which is a collection of apocryphal and pseudepigraphal literature, etc. In all I have at least eleven versions of the Bible. And I've studied enough to be able to give you some good quotes as to why some books were left out of the Bible. Take this one:

"T_he gospel of Thomas, for example, was a forgery written in the 3rd or 4th century A.D., claiming to have been written by the apostle Thomas. It was not written by Thomas. The early Christians almost universally rejected the gospel of Thomas as heretical. It contains many false and heretical things that Jesus supposedly said and did. None of it (or at best very little of it) is true. The gospel of Barnabas was not written by the biblical Barnabas, but by an imposter. The same can be said of the gospel of Philip, the apocalypse of Peter, etc. All of these books, and the many others like them, are pseudepigraphal, essentially meaning "ascribed to a false author."_ "

https://www.gotquestions.org/lost-books-Bible.html

Taking all of this into account and treating the rejected books as secular history *PLUS *adding in secular history I remained convinced of the position I've taken. In addition, once you read my research, you will find that I reference non-canonical sources that are considered along with extensive use of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (along with other interpreting tools) are utilized. We can play the game all day long OR you can think about this one thing:

"_He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him._" Proverbs 18 : 13

It would be a wise and prudent move to find out what I'm talking about before casting aspersions on the conclusions that years of intense study have revealed. When I prep, I'm having to bet my life on this. So, I take no man's word and ask that you do the same. Don't take my word either, but look at the proposition being put forth and then study the Scripture. Casting doubt doesn't disprove anyone's position.


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## allen530 (May 6, 2018)

People have different interpretations of scripture. There is only one Holy Spirit.2nd Peter tells us no scripture comes from private interpretation and 1st Corinthians 2 tells us that God reveals things to us through his Holy Spirit who searches the deep things of God and reveals them to us. The Holy Spirit is our teacher so we should seek him for understanding of scripture. Two people can both say they are led by the Spirit and have different interpretations of scripture. The Holy Spirit is not going to tell people different meanings of a scripture. The devil is the author of confusion. So either one person has the Holy Spirit revealing truth and the other person has a lying Spirit revealing lies or they both have a lying Spirit they are listening to. Seek God’s Holy Spirit in all things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> That's all well and good, but irrelevant to this topic. And NIV??? It's not a very good translation comparably speaking.





> Quote Originally Posted by The Resister View Post
> I'm not trying to preach to you, but the Bible teaches us that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"


Replying to what you said is irrelevant? Or it doesn't matter since you decided it doesn't matter?

And, I'm sorry. I guess I should have asked you when I started my Bible study instead of the PHD that's teaching my studies. I'm sure you are much more learned that he is. He's only been doing this since the 80's and probably doesn't have the experience you do.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> Replying to what you said is irrelevant? Or it doesn't matter since you decided it doesn't matter?
> 
> And, I'm sorry. I guess I should have asked you when I started my Bible study instead of the PHD that's teaching my studies. I'm sure you are much more learned that he is. He's only been doing this since the 80's and probably doesn't have the experience you do.


I don't know which of us would be the most experienced. I started in the 1970s. And, as stated, I finish school for a second time in September. I will have two separate degrees in theology. Your response was irrelevant to the extent that it did not address the topic, not that it lacked merit as a topic in and of itself.

No attempt is being made to dismiss what you say; it's just not applicable to this thread. We cannot debate which Bible translation, which Bible, and what books were left out of the Bible in order to have a conversation about any given topic. In my teens I went to a small Bible College and we had those discussions many times. After studying there and finishing, I went on to study law. It's been fun over the years to apply legal principles to the weight of evidence as to how much authority to give to any given point of view. And, let's face it: *NO* interpretation by man is infallible. Studying the Bible is a journey, not a destination.

We have to read the Bible, pick it apart, and study it line by line and precept by precept. See Isaiah 28: 10.

It wasn't until I began studying law that I realized that the Bible cannot account for 18 years of the life of Jesus that secular history accurately recorded. Above the myths, legends, and beliefs God's Word was coming to life where the Bible lacked detailed records. That put me onto the road to the destiny of our people. It's the topic I'd like to address in *one thread*.

There are people who do not want me to discuss certain subjects. If I disagree with them then I am a know it all, pompous, arrogant, asshole. AND, if I presume to pontificate that they are insecure about what they believe, then I am judging them *AFTER* they've judged me. At the end of the day, there is a *reason* we cannot broach certain subjects. As Christians, the Bible teaches us "_It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter_" Proverbs 25: 2 So, I'm committed to a search for the truth AND to spread the Good News of the Gospel of the Kingdom.

If you'd like to discuss different Bible translations, the mis-translations in the Bible, words that have been changed to suit a translators bias, and the non-canonical books, I'd welcome such a thread and promise to participate. It's just this is not that topic and I get defensive because there is a clique group here that will not allow a conversation about this one topic. Every time I try, people pretend that I offended them and make it a personality contest. I won't argue over the Word of God and exit so they can spew hatred and venom toward me, but I notice the Notifications and ignore them. Our Heavenly Father does not look kindly on those kinds of tactics. He would not be pleased that I engaged people in that kind of behavior in His name. I think we should keep the conversation civil; not engage in presumptions about others; not attack the person over their belief, but show factual evidence why it can or cannot be so. Above all, have the respect to stay on topic. I had no intention of belittling you nor the people you get your information from. I simply failed to see what connection it had to the Twelve Tribes of Israel, America's history and our destiny. Sorry.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> I won't argue this point at all. And up front, so I don't get accused of being a heathen, I study my Bible daily. For reference, I use the NIV Study Bible.
> 
> What I will state is that man interprets what is written. Back then there were no computers, printing presses or word processors. Each and every scroll written had to be copied by hand. It was time consuming and tedious. I have no doubt that mistakes were made when copied. Look at Mark 16 Most Bibles state after verse 8 [_The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9-20._]


The Dead Sea Scrolls proved otherwise. God protected scripture from error.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> The Dead Sea Scrolls proved otherwise. God protected scripture from error.


To some extent, that is true.
One book in particular was so close to what we still have today that it was literally only different by 3 words. One was a simple mis-translation, and the other two were misspellings, if I recall.
Some of the other books were not quite as accurate, but it still speaks to the longevity of the interpretations. Most kept to the same original intent of the first author.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Annie said:


> The Dead Sea Scrolls proved otherwise. God protected scripture from error.


I didn't say the Bible was wrong. I merely pointed out that translation errors can occur.

But, if memory serves me correctly. The Dead Sea Scrolls were only partially intact.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> To some extent, that is true.
> One book in particular was so close to what we still have today that it was literally only different by 3 words. One was a simple mis-translation, and the other two were misspellings, if I recall.
> Some of the other books were not quite as accurate, but it still speaks to the longevity of the interpretations. Most kept to the same original intent of the first author.


Really? I didn't know that. My understanding is that there were two very minor errors in Isaiah and those didn't change the meaning of the text, but I digress...sorry.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> I didn't say the Bible was wrong. I merely pointed out that translation errors can occur.
> 
> But, if memory serves me correctly. The Dead Sea Scrolls were only partially intact.


You might want to point to some reference in order to establish your point. There are mistranslated words and even words that are used by a translator that can change the meaning of the Bible.

Still, the over-all story is that if the Bible could be summed up in one word it would be Israel. Secular history, science, archaeology, and the promises kept by God all attest to the veracity to God's Holy Word. One only look at the history of our country to see that it is that _"City on a Hill_" in John Winthrop's sermon:

"_Thus stands the cause between God and us. We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. (Israel entered a covenant and the founders knew their identity) We have taken out a commission. The Lord hath given us leave to draw our own articles. We have professed to enterprise these and those accounts, upon these and those ends. We have hereupon besought Him of favor and blessing. Now if the Lord shall please to hear us, and bring us in peace to the place we desire._ ...

"_We shall find that the God of Israel is among us, when ten of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies; when He shall make us a praise and glory that men shall say of succeeding plantations, "may the Lord make it like that of New England." For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world_."

John Winthrop Dreams of a City on a Hill, 1630 | The American Yawp Reader


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> You might want to point to some reference in order to establish your point. There are mistranslated words and even words that are used by a translator that can change the meaning of the Bible.


I did but you ignored it. That's ok, I'm done. :vs_wave:


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Very interesting. Tell us about how a person becomes ordained as a minister in your group. Thanks.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

bigwheel said:


> Very interesting. Tell us about how a person becomes ordained as a minister in your group. Thanks.


I went to school for two years, served under a pastor for another two, and applied for it.


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## allen530 (May 6, 2018)

You will know a person by their fruits. I have a friend who is a pastor. There were people in the church that wanted to run the church their way. When he wouldn’t go along a few turned on him. He told them to allow the Holy Spirit to guide the church but they didn’t want anything to do with the Holy Spirit. One Sunday one of the guys came down the aisle and punched my friend and knocked down. My friend got up didn’t say anything to the guy. Now that’s a person pattering his life after Jesus. Oh by the way my friend is a third degree black belt and still very quick to be 67 years old. He could of took this guy out no problem. I could go on and on about what he goes through with people. But all he does is sincerely pray for them and try to introduce them to Jesus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Everybody gets upset Dude. They get upset in private. That's where the bully and I had our exchange and where, if he were a decent human being would have left it.


I'm sorry, sir.
But what a person does in private is very much a reflection of themselves.
In fact, one who acts different ways according to who his audience is does not fit with what I have learned from the New Testament.

Remember - integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking.

As for me, I'm just an old sinner, saved by Grace.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Adn you're trolling me. Check! You're still spineless and you're still trying to be a bully. Thank you for derailing yet *another* thread. The difference between you and I. When I pick a fight, I fight it on my own. I don't go looking for other people who lack the facts to pat my back. I respond in private and don't need someone to hold my hand because I'm smart enough not to bite off more than I'm willing to chew.
> 
> No point in responding because I won't read it. I'll let you finish ruining this thread. And remind everyone, if hawgrider had *ANY *modicum of decency, he would leave people alone *OR* tell them to name the time and the place. He would not bring the fights he starts onto the board, but leave them in PM. Now, he called me out; I accepted his challenge and he's threatened me in PMs. Believe what you want, but he don't pack the gear to make good on his threats. He wants to leave that to others.


OK. I now see what you call a troll. You post your stuff on a small board and anyone who bumps into you who doesn't like your writing is a troll.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I see I miss a lot when I ignore a thread and then go to work.


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## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

Denton said:


> I see I miss a lot when I ignore a thread and then go to work.


Heck, all I did was try to take a nap. :sad2:

I removed the fussin' and fighting in this thread. It isn't fair for the rest of us to have to listen to it.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Adn you're trolling me. Check! You're still spineless and you're still trying to be a bully. Thank you for derailing yet *another* thread. The difference between you and I. When I pick a fight, I fight it on my own. I don't go looking for other people who lack the facts to pat my back. I respond in private and don't need someone to hold my hand because I'm smart enough not to bite off more than I'm willing to chew.
> 
> No point in responding because I won't read it. I'll let you finish ruining this thread. And remind everyone, if hawgrider had *ANY *modicum of decency, he would leave people alone *OR* tell them to name the time and the place. He would not bring the fights he starts onto the board, but leave them in PM. Now, he called me out; I accepted his challenge and he's threatened me in PMs. Believe what you want, but he don't pack the gear to make good on his threats. He wants to leave that to others.


I thought I was done here but you keep bringing it back. Nobody here needs me to pat their back. *I'm back now because you're a moron.* @hawgrider, @Coastie dad and @Denton did not ask for my assistance. Nor do I offer it even though they are my friends. *YOU'RE A SELF RIGHTEOUS IDIOT WHO IS FULL OF HIMSELF. YOU BELIEVE ONLY YOU ARE RIGHT AND THOSE WHO DISAGREE ARE WRONG. A SELF RIGHTEOUS POMPOUS IDIOT.* THAT'S what gets me fired up. 2 years in school and 2 years as an apprentice. Now you're a f**king expert. I tend to respect others opinions and sometimes learn from them. Some I totally disagree with and will either state as much or keep out of it. BUT you have reached a point where anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you or trolling you. smh You are a psychiatrists dream come true.

You talk about Jesus. Yes he tore up the temple because they dishonored the Father. But to the Sanhedrin did he punch out the high priest? Did he attack anyone in the Sanhedrin who wanted him killed? Even in the garden of Gethsemane when Peter cut of the ear off the guard, Jesus stepped in between them to stop the attack from escalating. Back at the high priests house did he go full on ninja or ******* when they beat him up? Did Jesus go full on brawling ******* in any situation that you can state? Even when He dealt with demons, He did it with dignity. Jesus did know there would be violent attacks on the Apostles, and even warned them. All but John died a martyr. Did they go full on *******? Did Philip go on the attack when he was stoned to death? Did Paul fight back when he was attacked in nearly every town he went to? So don't try that sh*t with me. That dog don't hunt.

*Your attacks are childish. They demean you and your position.* I agree with @rice patty daddy. You show your true self in private. Me, I am what I am. What you see is what you get in private or in person. Like it or not, this is me. I ask no one to like me. Either you do or you don't. If you do then you have a good friend. If you don't well, that's your loss. I don't have time nor the patience to play games, being different in public than I am in private.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I thought I was done here but you keep bringing it back. Nobody here needs me to pat their back. *I'm back now because you're a moron.* @hawgrider, @Coastie dad and @Denton did not ask for my assistance. Nor do I offer it even though they are my friends. *YOU'RE A SELF RIGHTEOUS IDIOT WHO IS FULL OF HIMSELF. YOU BELIEVE ONLY YOU ARE RIGHT AND THOSE WHO DISAGREE ARE WRONG. A SELF RIGHTEOUS POMPOUS IDIOT.* THAT'S what gets me fired up. 2 years in school and 2 years as an apprentice. Now you're a f**king expert. I tend to respect others opinions and sometimes learn from them. Some I totally disagree with and will either state as much or keep out of it. BUT you have reached a point where anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you or trolling you. smh You are a psychiatrists dream come true.
> 
> You talk about Jesus. Yes he tore up the temple because they dishonored the Father. But to the Sanhedrin did he punch out the high priest? Did he attack anyone in the Sanhedrin who wanted him killed? Even in the garden of Gethsemane when Peter cut of the ear off the guard, Jesus stepped in between them to stop the attack from escalating. Back at the high priests house did he go full on ninja or ******* when they beat him up? Did Jesus go full on brawling ******* in any situation that you can state? Even when He dealt with demons, He did it with dignity. Jesus did know there would be violent attacks on the Apostles, and even warned them. All but John died a martyr. Did they go full on *******? Did Philip go on the attack when he was stoned to death? Did Paul fight back when he was attacked in nearly every town he went to? So don't try that sh*t with me. That dog don't hunt.
> 
> *Your attacks are childish. They demean you and your position.* I agree with @rice patty daddy. You show your true self in private. Me, I am what I am. What you see is what you get in private or in person. Like it or not, this is me. I ask no one to like me. Either you do or you don't. If you do then you have a good friend. If you don't well, that's your loss. I don't have time nor the patience to play games, being different in public than I am in private.


Resistor brings that out in people.
Let me loose!


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Resistor brings that out in people.
> Let me loose!


You need permission??? OK, you have mine. :tango_face_grin:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> You need permission??? OK, you have mine. :tango_face_grin:


OK.

I'm tired of playing the victim when someone gets pissed when others don't agree. I get pissed when someone acts pious when they swear like me.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> OK.
> 
> I'm tired of playing the victim when someone gets pissed when others don't agree. I get pissed when someone acts pious when they swear like me.


I don't do well being a victim. So neither should you.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I don't do well being a victim. So neither should you.


We are men. Resister? I dunno. He's a victim.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> *We are men.* Resister? I dunno. He's a victim.


Well, I just read an article stating their are now 112 genders available. He's probably already picked one of them. Or he could vacillate between any one of them.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

What a beautiful morning the birds are chirping and as the sun comes up it will shed light on a new day.


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)

I've always wondered when someone says they are not coming back to a topic, if they sneak back in anyway...


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

NewRiverGeorge said:


> I've always wondered when someone says they are not coming back to a topic, if they sneak back in anyway...


Well, I guess I can answer that. It's his thread and he chose his topic. I responded to a post he made but he blew my answer off. Ok fine. I was done. But then he made an accusation that seriously annoyed me. So yeah, I came back and told him my opinion. I've said my piece so I'm (hopefully) done. It's not often that something gets under my skin. Usually I'm pretty thick skinned and can take it as well as dish it out. This time though the post just got me fired up.


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)

inceptor said:


> Well, I guess I can answer that. It's his thread and he chose his topic. I responded to a post he made but he blew my answer off. Ok fine. I was done. But then he made an accusation that seriously annoyed me. So yeah, I came back and told him my opinion. I've said my piece so I'm (hopefully) done. It's not often that something gets under my skin. Usually I'm pretty thick skinned and can take it as well as dish it out. This time though the post just got me fired up.


Wasn't directed at you Inceptor, (I tried sending you a PM but your box is full).

I believe there are some posts missing from this thread (as evidenced by Crickets post on page 5), and I lost track of who was saying what. I do apologize sir.

I need more sleep...


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

NewRiverGeorge said:


> Wasn't directed at you Inceptor, (I tried sending you a PM but your box is full).
> 
> I believe there are some posts missing from this thread (as evidenced by Crickets post on page 5), and I lost track of who was saying what. I do apologize sir.
> 
> I need more sleep...


Yes the nice Lady Cricket cleaned up the wreckage from the barrage of hellfire missiles. Much is missing but thats OK shes just doing her job. 
Being an Administrator is usually a thankless job.... I can relate I have similar duties elsewhere. She is a very fair and forgiving Administrator. Just don't ever piss her off as Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! :tango_face_grin:


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

hawgrider said:


> Yes the nice Lady Cricket cleaned up the wreckage from the barrage of hellfire missiles. Much is missing but thats OK shes just doing her job.
> Being an Administrator is usually a thankless job.... I can relate I have similar duties elsewhere. She is a very fair and forgiving Administrator. Just don't ever piss her off as Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! :tango_face_grin:


Thankless maybe, but there is all that money to be made, not to mention the Executive liquor cabinet and the free women! :devil:


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> Thankless maybe, but there is all that money to be made, not to mention the Executive liquor cabinet and the free women! :devil:


Maybe here but @Inor drank all the booze at the other place and I never made the payroll there.:vs_mad:


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> I thought I was done here but you keep bringing it back. Nobody here needs me to pat their back. *I'm back now because you're a moron.* @hawgrider, @Coastie dad and @Denton did not ask for my assistance. Nor do I offer it even though they are my friends. *YOU'RE A SELF RIGHTEOUS IDIOT WHO IS FULL OF HIMSELF. YOU BELIEVE ONLY YOU ARE RIGHT AND THOSE WHO DISAGREE ARE WRONG. A SELF RIGHTEOUS POMPOUS IDIOT.* THAT'S what gets me fired up. 2 years in school and 2 years as an apprentice. Now you're a f**king expert. I tend to respect others opinions and sometimes learn from them. Some I totally disagree with and will either state as much or keep out of it. BUT you have reached a point where anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you or trolling you. smh You are a psychiatrists dream come true.
> 
> You talk about Jesus. Yes he tore up the temple because they dishonored the Father. But to the Sanhedrin did he punch out the high priest? Did he attack anyone in the Sanhedrin who wanted him killed? Even in the garden of Gethsemane when Peter cut of the ear off the guard, Jesus stepped in between them to stop the attack from escalating. Back at the high priests house did he go full on ninja or ******* when they beat him up? Did Jesus go full on brawling ******* in any situation that you can state? Even when He dealt with demons, He did it with dignity. Jesus did know there would be violent attacks on the Apostles, and even warned them. All but John died a martyr. Did they go full on *******? Did Philip go on the attack when he was stoned to death? Did Paul fight back when he was attacked in nearly every town he went to? So don't try that sh*t with me. That dog don't hunt.
> 
> *Your attacks are childish. They demean you and your position.* I agree with @rice patty daddy. You show your true self in private. Me, I am what I am. What you see is what you get in private or in person. Like it or not, this is me. I ask no one to like me. Either you do or you don't. If you do then you have a good friend. If you don't well, that's your loss. I don't have time nor the patience to play games, being different in public than I am in private.


inceptor,

I received a PM yesterday telling me that most of the personal stuff had been removed from this thread and the individual sending me the PM wanted me to address several issues. I think it must have had something to do with what you posted from the tone of it, so let us set the record straight since *you said you left this thread and then returned*. You cannot criticize me for coming back.

Anybody that told you I believed I was right about everything is a liar
Anybody that told you I thought I was not a sinner, hypocrite, etc. is a liar
Anybody that told you I was one person on the open forums and another in private is a liar

I owned my own personal weakness. The ONLY thing different in private is that if someone is derailing threads and making everything I say a referendum on my popularity is wanting more than a discussion from me. That stuff does not belong on the thread. It is not relevant. Will I curse at a man? Yes. Have I ever once, claimed to be something I'm not? If you cannot reference it, you have the problem, not me.

Did two years of school prepare me for the road I'm traveling today? No. You asked what it took to become a minister in the church I belonged to, I told you that. Since then, as you ignored, I'm just now finishing up *FOUR FULL YEARS of full time study* since those days when I was ordained back in 1982. That is on top of many times of going to full week conferences to learn about various aspects of the Bible.

I'm not claiming to be right about what I'm going to tell you, but most pastors, ministers, etc. of any consequence have a security detail. There is a good movie with some basis in fact called _Avenging Angel_ with Tom Berenger. Berenger is the man protecting the leader of the Mormon church. It illustrates what some people have to do in order to protect their leaders. On these boards I have run across people that have threatened me, shot into my home, killed the family cat and strung it up over a branch not to mention the times they have posted absolute lies about me, hacked and destroyed my computer, and derailed my threads.

I don't have the luxury of a security detail. And just like Abram, I would use my slaves or anyone else to rescue a family member. The Bible says there is a time and a place for everything. So, when I run across people who are posing a threat not only to me, but others as well I react. I will curse them, pick at their weaknesses, and whatever it takes to make them attack me face to face rather than to derail threads and threaten me and / or my family. Somebody has to do the dirty work. It just don't have to be done in open forums. If you want to know what transpires between me and someone who would say bad things about me in PM, maybe you should ask about becoming a part of that conversation wherein you get all the facts (Proverbs 18: 13) I'm not a hypocrite about that. It's just that if you want a thread about my popularity or personality, we should have a thread for that and other threads for topical matter.

This thread is not about my personality; it's not about my popularity; the topic brought out in the OP has nothing to do with me personally. The topic is about whether or not America is mentioned in the Bible and, if so, what is our destiny? All you need to participate is a Bible... you need not even be saved to discuss that simple subject. I've told you up front, NEVER take another man's word for this stuff. And what do you think I am? I put my pants on the same way you do every morning. But, believe me. I did not know that the guy who drew first blood against me was the equivalent of the High Priest of the Sanhedrin when I accepted his challenge.

America is the New Jerusalem of the Bible; it is the regathering spot for biblical Israelites. It has lived up to the description. It is the nation that has sent out more missionaries than all the other nations combined. The United States has put more Bibles in the hands of people than any other nation. We have fought wars against tyranny all over the world, never taking an acre of land or subjecting nations to our rule in exchange for the thousands upon thousands of young soldiers we've sacrificed in the name of Liberty. Most of the presidents of this country are descendants that go back, directly, to the blood line of Jesus himself. As such, there is a lot of prophecy that applies to us and knowing it tells us how we are to prepare for the end times.

As individuals, we do not have to like each other. Nobody has a lock on the understanding of the Bible. We're supposed to be building bridges, not walls. You're right. I am an idiot and a moron. It would be easier to follow the masses and go along to get along. But Jesus didn't do that. And I'm not Jesus... but he did tell us to preach the gospel in spite of the naysayers. And, contrary to the lie you dabble in, I am not a victim; never have been; never will be. When somebody threatens your family and / or puts your life in danger, all the niceties go out the window. Not having a security detail, that is why I have to be tough. Stick to the topic and don't try to derail it with personal stuff and we might learn from one another. Let's try it and see if it works.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

hawgrider said:


> Maybe here but @Inor drank all the booze at the other place and I never made the payroll there.:vs_mad:


That's ok, @Denton won't tell anyone where he hid the keys to the liquor cabinet here. I bet he has a fully stocked bar in his limo tho.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

hawgrider said:


> Maybe here but @Inor drank all the booze at the other place and I never made the payroll there.:vs_mad:


We have free women on the orange site?!? I did not know there even was such a thing as a free woman. :vs_laugh:


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Inor said:


> We have free women on the orange site?!? I did not know there even was such a thing as a free woman. :vs_laugh:


Exactly! Ain't nothing free there is a price to pay for everything. I'm still serving a 39 year year sentence.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

NewRiverGeorge said:


> Wasn't directed at you Inceptor, (I tried sending you a PM but your box is full).
> 
> I believe there are some posts missing from this thread (as evidenced by Crickets post on page 5), and I lost track of who was saying what. I do apologize sir.
> 
> I need more sleep...


LOL, I didn't know I had that many PM's until I got a notification email that said you tried to send a PM and the box was full. So I had some house cleaning to do.

BTW, I took no offense at your post. I answered because I thought I ought to.

Since you're new, and you may have figured it out by now, @The Resister has a tendency to bring out the best in folks. :vs_lol:


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

The Resister said:


> inceptor,
> 
> This thread is not about my personality; it's not about my popularity; the topic brought out in the OP has nothing to do with me personally. The topic is about whether or not America is mentioned in the Bible and, if so, what is our destiny? *All you need to participate is a Bible*... you need not even be saved to discuss that simple subject. I've told you up front, NEVER take another man's word for this stuff. And what do you think I am? I put my pants on the same way you do every morning. But, believe me. I did not know that the guy who drew first blood against me was the equivalent of the High Priest of the Sanhedrin when I accepted his challenge.
> 
> America is the New Jerusalem of the Bible; it is the regathering spot for biblical Israelites. It has lived up to the description. It is the nation that has sent out more missionaries than all the other nations combined. The United States has put more Bibles in the hands of people than any other nation. We have fought wars against tyranny all over the world, never taking an acre of land or subjecting nations to our rule in exchange for the thousands upon thousands of young soldiers we've sacrificed in the name of Liberty. Most of the presidents of this country are descendants that go back, directly, to the blood line of Jesus himself. As such, there is a lot of prophecy that applies to us and knowing it tells us how we are to prepare for the end times.


Funny, at least one individual asked which Bible one should use as there are several versions around. Jews only use the old testament; Catholics use one that has it's roots back in early Roman times; others use one ok'd by the English King James. That also doesn't address the Book of Mormon or the Chapters of the Bible omitted cause some one - not God - didn't like what it said.

But instead of addressing that issue, (if I remember correctly) you posted That's all well and good, but irrelevant to this topic. And NIV??? It's not a very good translation comparably speaking.

Really? If you all can not agree on what is the "Bible" then one can never have a discussion in a rational sense as none of the participants will be looking at the same material to try and draw any conclusions.

As far as what is the word of God, I'm confused. Aren't many of the works in the bible tales written down from the recollections of what was said and passed down orally from the date they were said until someone took the time to put pen to paper.

If I'm not mistaken I don't ever remember anyone ever finding a copy of Paul's letters to ------- (you fill in the blank)

So for someone to claim that the Gospel according to Thomas, Barabas, etc are forgeries, is kind of strange as just about all of the books in the "Bible" are based on what someone remebmers someone (most likely not an original source) telling - the definition of heresay
Shoot the Catholics and Protestants can't even agree on what books belong in the old testament

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_the_Bible#Deuterocanonical_books_of_the_Old_Testament

let alone what books belong in the New T.

Maybe before everyone has a stroke perhaps an unbiased (let's say a heathen) group of folks looks at each of the various Bibles folks are thinking about and come up with a bible that everyone agrees to work with (didn't say you had to accept everything, but at least there would be a frame of reference for all to base their post on


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Real Old Man said:


> Funny, at least one individual asked which Bible one should use as there are several versions around. Jews only use the old testament; Catholics use one that has it's roots back in early Roman times; others use one ok'd by the English King James. That also doesn't address the Book of Mormon or the Chapters of the Bible omitted cause some one - not God - didn't like what it said.
> 
> But instead of addressing that issue, (if I remember correctly) you posted That's all well and good, but irrelevant to this topic. And NIV??? It's not a very good translation comparably speaking.
> 
> ...


I know that everyone will have their own ideas. You weigh the evidence; take a stand and defend it. Regardless of which translation you feel is best, you have to do your own research. So, the* requisite disclaimer*:

The following link best represents my view. It can and will be disputed. Either way it will not prove that I'm right or wrong to everyone's satisfaction:

https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/kjb_only.htm

I do use a lot of non-canonical books and versions to look at how different translators interpret key ideas. This leads to a lot of interesting discussions on the Internet:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/authorised-king-james-version.1383/page-6

I'm always comparing the KJV with the Geneva Bible ( I use both translations) and for good reason:

http://digitalcommons.cedarville.edu/kjv_america/

It all comes back to this:

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/11/the-bibles-influence-the-bible-and-america-history/

Addendum: I've found a lot of the books left out of the KJV can be used as a secular reference - it might not be canonical, but sometimes shed light on the accepted books.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Hmmm. Not being a Biblical Scholar, but merely a believer in Jesus Christ, the volumes of written word I have would most likely not pass an "experts" muster.
But, right next to my recliner, 12 inches in fact (I just now measured it) are:
Three King James Versions
One NIV Student Bible
One Revised Standard
One Living Bible
Volumes One and Two of The Gospel of Matthew by William Barclay
What The Bible Is All About, by Henrietta C. Mears (KJV) with a foreword by Billy Graham

That is enough to pique my interest.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict?


:vs_lol:

It would probably go to a jury trial.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The English Standard Version is another one. One of the collaborators of that translation was at odds with the others, at one point. Remember when the rhetorical question of the KJV was raised, whether we should sin so that others could see we are saved by faith? The one guy wanted to keep the KJV emphasis, "God forbid." He was voted down because the original text simply said no. The counter point was either they were to stay true to the original texts or they might as well not do it at all.

Does that make it the best translation? Beats me. I use it and the KJV for study. Either way, I know what I have never seen in either, either explicitly or implied. It takes mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion, and I am just not that limber.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The KJV uses words and phrases that are completely foreign to me. It might as well be written in Chinese rather than Old English.
If I miss understanding parts, to me that is just as bad as a deliberately mistranslated version.
I have seen bibles that have several versions side by side, page by page, so they can be compared.
That would do me a world of good.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The KJV uses words and phrases that are completely foreign to me. It might as well be written in Chinese rather than Old English.
> If I miss understanding parts, to me that is just as bad as a deliberately mistranslated version.
> I have seen bibles that have several versions side by side, page by page, so they can be compared.
> That would do me a world of good.


Ever check out Bible Hub? They've got 'em all, I think.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> Ever check out Bible Hub? They've got 'em all, I think.


Very good site for cross reference.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict?


If there was not, I would provide it readily enough. there ain't no back down in me, on that one, I want to be a good neighbor, but I can be vocal when needed.



Denton said:


> The English Standard Version is another one. One of the collaborators of that translation was at odds with the others, at one point. Remember when the rhetorical question of the KJV was raised, whether we should sin so that others could see we are saved by faith? The one guy wanted to keep the KJV emphasis, "God forbid." He was voted down because the original text simply said no. The counter point was either they were to stay true to the original texts or they might as well not do it at all.
> 
> Does that make it the best translation? Beats me. I use it and the KJV for study. Either way, I know what I have never seen in either, either explicitly or implied. It takes mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion, and I am just not that limber.


The King James Version is the premiere translation, and a very excellent one; the English Standard is another excellent one, it is described as "essentially literal", which is as good a way to put it, as any I guess. I am looking for a NRSV myself, I have a big concordance that uses that version; so I figured I would get one.



rice paddy daddy said:


> The KJV uses words and phrases that are completely foreign to me. It might as well be written in Chinese rather than Old English.
> If I miss understanding parts, to me that is just as bad as a deliberately mistranslated version.
> I have seen bibles that have several versions side by side, page by page, so they can be compared.
> That would do me a world of good.


I used a parallel, side by side, KJV and Living Bible when I first started reading for comprehension; it was a great method, and I used it a lot. I had a study bible, written in the Living Bible version; that was put together by a PhD, and it was a favorite. It had a flood of footnotes, written on the same page as the passages, that it noted.



Annie said:


> Ever check out Bible Hub? They've got 'em all, I think.
> It is one of the best Bible study sites.


An excellent site, with scads of versions available, I counted 24 of them, on their header. I use it every so often myself.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> Funny, at least one individual asked which Bible one should use as there are several versions around. Jews only use the old testament; Catholics use one that has it's roots back in early Roman times; others use one ok'd by the English King James. That also doesn't address the Book of Mormon or the Chapters of the Bible omitted cause some one - not God - didn't like what it said.
> 
> But instead of addressing that issue, (if I remember correctly) you posted That's all well and good, but irrelevant to this topic. And NIV??? It's not a very good translation comparably speaking.
> 
> ...


ROM, remember that it's the simple child-like faith that Our Lord found most pleasing, not how "smart" somebody was. It wasn't the scribes and Pharisees who pleased Him--and I'm not saying anyone here is that--but the little children and the ones who were able to step out in faith pleased Him very much.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Resister said:


> I went to school for two years, served under a pastor for another two, and applied for it.


I have came to the conclusion that ordination can only come by the laying on of hands by the presbytery..since the Bible says..thats how to do it. Kindly go try that and report back. Thanks. Take some pics. 
1 Timothy 4:14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given you through the prophecy spoken over you at the laying on of the hands of the elders.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Annie said:


> ROM, remember that it's the simple child-like faith that Our Lord found most pleasing, not how "smart" somebody was. It wasn't the scribes and Pharisees who pleased Him--and I'm not saying anyone here is that--but the little children and the ones who were able to step out in faith pleased Him very much.


Thank you, Annie.
I believe. I don't understand it all.
I feel no need to debate, in fact I'm unable to debate.
I believe.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Thank you, Annie.
> I believe. I don't understand it all.
> I feel no need to debate, in fact I'm unable to debate.
> I believe.


See, it's posts like this that you should be able to hit like a whole bunch of times. :tango_face_grin:


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I really like some teachings of a radio preacher named Hank Hannegraph. He divides the Bible up into two parts..i.e. things a person must believe or do to be saved...which he calls Kindergarten..(the simplest lesson being believing on Jesus in your heart and confessing Him with your mouth) and then with a diploma in hand and by the guidiance of the Holy Spirit..the new Believer heads off to Harvard to study the deeper mysteries of God. Which can get mighty complicated. When attending Harvard its sometimes necessary to study hard..pray a lot..and take your best guess. That apply to such things as once saved always saved..Baptismal Regeneration etc. Things that are good to know but will not land a person in hell if they happen to get it wrong..but fun to debate about and hopefully learn new stuff. 
https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/bible-answer-man/read/articles/


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Annie said:


> ROM, remember that it's the simple child-like faith that Our Lord found most pleasing, not how "smart" somebody was. It wasn't the scribes and Pharisees who pleased Him--and I'm not saying anyone here is that--but the little children and the ones who were able to step out in faith pleased Him very much.


Annie

Like what you said, but I'm trying to get a couple of folks talking on the same field instead of working with two different versions of the allegedly same docment/


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

bigwheel said:


> I have came to the conclusion that ordination can only come by the laying on of hands by the presbytery..since the Bible says..thats how to do it. Kindly go try that and report back. Thanks. Take some pics.
> 1 Timothy 4:14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given you through the prophecy spoken over you at the laying on of the hands of the elders.


What gives you the impression that a perfectly biblical process was not gone through once I let it be known that I was answering the call?

Proverbs 18 : 13 - Proverbs 18 : 13 Questions may avoid misunderstandings.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Very good site for cross reference.


Love the Bible Hub. Always nice to know how the different versions translate particular passages and there is usually some informative commentary at the bottom of the page.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

The Resister said:


> What if I'm not in it for the money?


Then, you may be in it for the right reason. To save those who you can.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

BookWorm said:


> Then, you may be in it for the right reason. To save those who you can.


Again, I am hoping to find a few people who have lost hope and see if their lives cannot be changed not just spiritually, but pick them up and dust them off. Help some people get a job and get their lives together. You can't take money with you when you go and with each passing day I realize that the day is coming when I will not be in this earthly body. We will answer for the lives we lived on this earth.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Again, I am hoping to find a few people who have lost hope and see if their lives cannot be changed not just spiritually, but pick them up and dust them off. Help some people get a job and get their lives together. You can't take money with you when you go and with each passing day I realize that the day is coming when I will not be in this earthly body. We will answer for the lives we lived on this earth.


If this is why you do it then I wish you much success.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Again, I am hoping to find a few people who have lost hope and see if their lives cannot be changed not just spiritually, but pick them up and dust them off. Help some people get a job and get their lives together. You can't take money with you when you go and with each passing day I realize that the day is coming when I will not be in this earthly body. We will answer for the lives we lived on this earth.


I'm pretty sure arguing where and what New Jerusalem is with believers isn't going to save any souls.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Denton said:


> I'm pretty sure arguing where and what New Jerusalem is with believers isn't going to save any souls.


I'm pretty sure you'd be wrong in that presupposition. Our history *is* always beneficial in understanding our destiny. Convince a man that in the face of despair, there is hope and some will respond.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> If this is why you do it then I wish you much success.


Thank you for the well wishes. Your prayers are needed as well. God pointed me in the right directions and didn't tell me exactly how to get from point A to point B. My wife and I watched the Paul - Apostle of Christ flick this morning. We had a conversation that was longer than the movie about whether that movie accurately depicted the Bible and what may be expected of us in trying times.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> I'm pretty sure you'd be wrong in that presupposition. Our history *is* always beneficial in understanding our destiny. Convince a man that in the face of despair, there is hope and some will respond.


Pretty sure you are very much wrong. My salvation isn't connected to this nation's destiny. A learned scholar such as yourself should know this isn't a Christian's final home. We are passing through.


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## allen530 (May 6, 2018)

Isaiah 66:8 the prophesy of Israel being born in a day, the fact that the Israelites still exist, all the times the Israelites have been under tremendous tribulations all the attempts to destroy them and that God himself didn’t destroy them is proof that replacement theology is wrong. If one has hope in America being the end time Israel or promised land you will be disappointed.And for this hope to cause someone to want to be saved is wrong. It’s the Holy Spirit whom convicts us and show us we need a savior not man. Every thought word and deed is either from the Holy Spirit or a demonic spirit. Replacement theology is from Satan himself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

When it comes to soul winning..I have adopted a strategy of throwing my Pearls three times..and if the swine eat them up and turn to rend me..I put em back in my pocket and start praying for the Father to draw the wayward sinner in question..to His Son. That seems fairly Biblical to me. What do yall think?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> When it comes to soul winning..I have adopted a strategy of throwing my Pearls three times..and if the swine eat them up and turn to rend me..I put em back in my pocket and start praying for the Father to draw the wayward sinner in question..to His Son. That seems fairly Biblical to me. What do yall think?


Well, you asked.

The best man I ever knew (still know him as we stay in contact to this day) didn't shove the Bible down people's throats and he was the cause of more people in the unit to ask, "Who is Jesus?" than the army chaplain. Why? Because he walked the walk, every single day. The Army lost a good man when he left the service and the Alabama State Troopers lost a great major when he retired.
I can also also assure you he wouldn't bother with this thread. He's a better man than I will ever be.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

What a guy. Very Biblical strategy he employed to win those souls. Giving an example of a Godly life and always being ready with an answer for those who ask about the hope that is in you.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Well, you asked.
> 
> The best man I ever knew (still know him as we stay in contact to this day) didn't shove the Bible down people's throats and he was the cause of more people in the unit to ask, "Who is Jesus?" than the army chaplain. Why? Because he walked the walk, every single day. The Army lost a good man when he left the service and the Alabama State Troopers lost a great major when he retired.
> I can also also assure you he wouldn't bother with this thread. He's a better man than I will ever be.


Lead by example. What a lost concept. Too bad others have a hard time figuring that one out.


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## allen530 (May 6, 2018)

Jesus said you will know someone by their fruit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

allen530 said:


> Isaiah 66:8 the prophesy of Israel being born in a day, the fact that the Israelites still exist, all the times the Israelites have been under tremendous tribulations all the attempts to destroy them and that God himself didn't destroy them is proof that replacement theology is wrong. If one has hope in America being the end time Israel or promised land you will be disappointed.And for this hope to cause someone to want to be saved is wrong. It's the Holy Spirit whom convicts us and show us we need a savior not man. Every thought word and deed is either from the Holy Spirit or a demonic spirit. Replacement theology is from Satan himself.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gotta love cheap shots. The only people who are replacing Christian presuppositions are those making phony charges that they cannot back up by the Bible.

Trying to clutter the discussion with half a dozen very well placed deflections only shows the weakness of your ideology. Don't accuse me of "replacement theology" and I won't refer to you as a wolf in sheep's clothing. Fair enough? We don't have to get nasty... just be respectful.

My response:

http://www.historicist.com/past-proponents/suppose-we-are-israel

Proverbs 18 :13 Read it and apply it. You may want to check the link. It clearly refutes your unwarranted and subtle attacks.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Denton said:


> Well, you asked.
> 
> The best man I ever knew (still know him as we stay in contact to this day) didn't shove the Bible down people's throats and he was the cause of more people in the unit to ask, "Who is Jesus?" than the army chaplain. Why? Because he walked the walk, every single day. The Army lost a good man when he left the service and the Alabama State Troopers lost a great major when he retired.
> I can also also assure you he wouldn't bother with this thread. He's a better man than I will ever be.


So, if you are preaching leading by example, what keeps you from shaking the dust from your shoes and moving on? Who is forcing you to participate in the conversation? Is the America you look for the one that demands everybody conform to YOUR ideology or be raked over the coals for wanting to talk to those who are willingly participating in a conversation the masses don't control?


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

allen530 said:


> Jesus said you will know someone by their fruit.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The fruits of your labors is to falsely accuse people you don't know spit about to the accolades of the masses. Preach on.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Gotta love cheap shots. The only people who are replacing Christian presuppositions are those making phony charges that they cannot back up by the Bible.
> 
> Trying to clutter the discussion with half a dozen very well placed deflections only shows the weakness of your ideology. Don't accuse me of "replacement theology" and I won't refer to you as a wolf in sheep's clothing. Fair enough? We don't have to get nasty... just be respectful.
> 
> ...


So now quoting scripture is a cheap shot? A deflection? And how does "To answer before listening- that is folly and shame." apply here?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> So, if you are preaching leading by example, what keeps you from shaking the dust from your shoes and moving on? Who is forcing you to participate in the conversation? Is the America you look for the one that demands everybody conform to YOUR ideology or be raked over the coals for wanting to talk to those who are willingly participating in a conversation the masses don't control?


First, I said my friend is a better man than I'll ever be. I know; you can't read what I wrote because of how great you think you are.
You tell me what America has to think. You're the one who is preaching the notion that the U.S. is the New Jerusalem and trying to argue down anyone who doesn't agree with you. You are also the one who says such a notion gives people hope. Why, just the other say I heard a Christian lament, "Yeah, I believe in Jesus, but I can't shake the hopelessness of knowing th U.S. is not the center of the universe!" I felt so bad for him. Fortunately, I was able to direct him to that link I provided when I edited out the copy/paste violation. Just think; you made someone no longer feel hopeless even though he was already saved by the blood of his Savior. Good job, Jimmy!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> The fruits of your labors is to falsely accuse people you don't know spit about to the accolades of the masses. Preach on.


Again, your self-perceived greatness prevented you from realizing to what he was responding.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

The Resister said:


> So, if you are preaching leading by example, what keeps you from shaking the dust from your shoes and moving on? Who is forcing you to participate in the conversation? Is the America you look for the one that demands everybody conform to YOUR ideology or be raked over the coals for wanting to talk to those who are willingly participating in a conversation the masses don't control?


Guess that you denigrating everyone that doesn't conform to your views as heraticts or idiots or the like. Perhaps you ought to practice what you preach rather than making snide petty comments on other's posts.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> Guess that you denigrating everyone that doesn't conform to your views as heretics or idiots or the like. Perhaps you ought to practice what you preach rather than making snide petty comments on other's posts.


You don't have the esteemed training the Wise One does. How dare you mock him! 
All worship the continental United States!


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Where do you guys get these people at?


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> Where do you guys get these people at?


He might as well be Tammy Fae...

Hides behind his make up.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Denton said:


> First, I said my friend is a better man than I'll ever be. I know; you can't read what I wrote because of how great you think you are.
> You tell me what America has to think. You're the one who is preaching the notion that the U.S. is the New Jerusalem and trying to argue down anyone who doesn't agree with you. You are also the one who says such a notion gives people hope. Why, just the other say I heard a Christian lament, "Yeah, I believe in Jesus, but I can't shake the hopelessness of knowing th U.S. is not the center of the universe!" I felt so bad for him. Fortunately, I was able to direct him to that link I provided when I edited out the copy/paste violation. Just think; you made someone no longer feel hopeless even though he was already saved by the blood of his Savior. Good job, Jimmy!


You are always talking down to me and pretending that your crap don't stink. You're the one who pretends to be better than anyone else. It's a straight out LIE that I expect people to believe anything I say or that I'm "_preaching_" to anybody. Dude, this is a discussion board. People are trying to have discussions. If you don't like the discussion, don't participate.

Regardless of your put downs, I posted a reply to this incessant insult. IF I were doing what you claim, I'd be the one pursuing posters like you into *every *thread they participate in to make this a personality contest. What you're doing is projecting because you cannot control the discussion. Your childish idiocy of attempting to make it sound like I think my position is the only one is dishonest, ridiculous, idiotic and moronic way beyond words in the English language can convey. It's just that I'm going to have the conversation regardless of whether or not it offends some people.

You don't see me making the claims you do and then following posters from board to board, trying to turn their every thread into a popularity contest. You don't see me following people around like a dog in heat, threatening them and making false accusations about them on this board. But there you are, with following trolls around, hoping for a morsel of their attention and the accolades of those who are so insecure that they cannot allow someone to express an opinion not approved by the Gods of prepperforums.net. What you're doing may get you the accolades of the masses in the prepperforum universe, but it is absolute B.S. - you know it, I know it and anyone else who reads these threads knows it.

You back people that come here to judge, not offer a counter argument or engage in a cogent discussion. If you have your own religion here, you should simply step up and declare it. Maybe you would fare better changing the name of your board. Chasing me around, trying to deny me the opportunity to have *ONE* discussion would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. If your life is so threatened because I'm discussing an issue you cannot (and do not want) to understand, you should pray about it. It sounds like YOU are the one with the serious problem.

Because America *IS* the New Jerusalem of the Bible; because you can find biblical Israel within our borders, it dictates to me the preparedness protocol that I will follow with my life. I don't have to denigrate cowardly attacks by people wanting to define my beliefs; I don't have to participate in threads and derail them because I don't agree with someone. The hacks you pat on the back cannot do that. When I got tired of some people here, I learned how to *NOT* respond on their threads. If I were as bad as you claim, I'd be pursuing them. I'm not and I'm not trying to make *every *thread a personality contest. I'm not the one trying to beat you into submission and bringing rank amateurs against you (or anyone else) to judge people because they lack the intellect to stick to the facts. Because I fail to see the lock you have on understanding the Bible, I'm an idiot. As soon as I realize that *you and your guru* have a monopoly on all understanding and accept *you and your guru* as holding the key to ALL POWER AND ALL KNOWLEDGE, then and only then, will I be allowed to express an opinion.

Let me tell you a little secret Denton. If what I say has no merit, people here would simply ignore any thread I start. They would not feel compelled to come here and _lie and falsely accuse me_; they would not band together and encourage cowards to threaten me and stalk me on this board. They would not engage in that kind of behavior because it is not biblical. If what I said did not have merit, you would walk away from this the next time I mention it. Then when the discussion is over, if it had no merit or truth in it, there would be no need to restart it.

You are constantly projecting *your* belief in* your* greatness. And since I cannot accept* you and your guru *as gods, there must be a problem with me. Right? Denton, you do not have a lock on human virtue. And now your secret is out. And if you have something personal to say, you should show the class it takes and say it in a PM. It is not befitting of any Christian to engage in pissing matches on a forum that is connected to His name.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

hawgrider said:


> He might as well be Tammy Fae...
> 
> Hides behind his make up.


Says the one hiding behind a woman and threatening me. No need to respond. I won't read it.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

@The Resister So Jimmy, tell me. Israel becoming a state again is insignificant. Ok. We are waiting on the Temple to be rebuilt. Where will the new Temple be rebuilt?


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

The Resister said:


> Says the one hiding behind a woman and threatening me. No need to respond. I won't read it.


Behind every good man is a *great woman*! Tick tock tick tock tick tock that's the sound of your time expiring.

Edited: I'm guessing you are single.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

The Resister said:


> You are always talking down to me and pretending that your crap don't stink. You're the one who pretends to be better than anyone else. It's a straight out LIE that I expect people to believe anything I say or that I'm "_preaching_" to anybody. Dude, this is a discussion board. People are trying to have discussions. If you don't like the discussion, don't participate.
> 
> Regardless of your put downs, I posted a reply to this incessant insult. IF I were doing what you claim, I'd be the one pursuing posters like you into *every *thread they participate in to make this a personality contest. What you're doing is projecting because you cannot control the discussion. Your childish idiocy of attempting to make it sound like I think my position is the only one is dishonest, ridiculous, idiotic and moronic way beyond words in the English language can convey. It's just that I'm going to have the conversation regardless of whether or not it offends some people.
> 
> ...


Quoted so you can't edit the content. @Denton


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

@Resister Jimmy, who is the "Guru"?

Now, in post #93, you attack Allen530 because he disagrees with your doctrine, rather than discussing the topic.
In post #94, you assume he is talking about you when it is clear he was responding to someone else. I pointed that out, but you are too righteous to apologize to him.

As for me (as well as everyone else who disagrees with you), you can only attack and sling insults at me for not agreeing with you and you won't (or can't) clarify or back up your assertions when they are challenged.

Yes, you simply want to preach your doctrine and you don't want anyone to challenge it.

*Now, to make sure you don't miss this, who are you suggesting is the community's "guru?"*


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

inceptor said:


> Lead by example. What a lost concept. Too bad others have a hard time figuring that one out.


My Big Brother is a type A manager guy who spent a lot of years in charge of a lot of employees. I asked him one time what is the secret to managing people? He say.."Never tell them to go do something..but rather tell them lets go get this job done."  Then jump out in front and show em how to do it right. Paraphrasing a little on that. Unfortunately he spent too much time in Sunny CA and got turned into a godless liberal who voted for Obammie twice and Killery once. So guess he is only smart in selective areas.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

inceptor said:


> @The Resister So Jimmy, tell me. Israel becoming a state again is insignificant. Ok. We are waiting on the Temple to be rebuilt. Where will the new Temple be rebuilt?


Suspect since Resister is scheduling the New Jerusalem to be in America...the Mo Mo Temple out in Utah will be the main attraction. Prob some kinda launching pad to get them to whatever planets they have been assigned to colonize. Now if hes really a Jehovah's Witness I take all this back of course.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

When I went on vacation last week, this topic was about half of what it is now.
I can't fully understand why I chose to read all the way through page 11, but here I am.
Nothing new was added and nothing from the new pages surprised be in the least.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

And if the Temple is not to be in Israel, then you should explain that to them.






Remind them: Resistance if futile.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> @The Resister So Jimmy, tell me. Israel becoming a state again is insignificant. Ok. We are waiting on the Temple to be rebuilt. Where will the new Temple be rebuilt?


It won't matter. Had you checked out the many links I left, it fully answered the questions for you.

https://www.wnd.com/2013/08/glenn-be...ibe-of-israel/

http://kingdomhereamerica.blogspot.c...jerusalem.html/

John Winthrop Dreams of a City on a Hill, 1630 | The American Yawp Reader

http://www.kimmillerconcernedchristians.com/Unsealings/1425.pdf

The Bottom Line: The New Jerusalem And the warning of God?s judgment

The Old Jerusalem is Not the New JerUSAlem

Suppose We Are Israel - Historicist.com

Your answers are in those links. Check them out and if you disagree, we can talk about that.... instead of about me.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Real Old Man said:


> Guess that you denigrating everyone that doesn't conform to your views as heraticts or idiots or the like. Perhaps you ought to practice what you preach rather than making snide petty comments on other's posts.


Guess you should read the thread. I have denigrated NO person here. I have counter-punched and responded AFTER being attacked.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

hawgrider said:


> Behind every good man is a *great woman*! Tick tock tick tock tick tock that's the sound of your time expiring.
> 
> Edited: I'm guessing you are single.


Unlike you, I am married... to a woman. IIRC, you were the one hiding behind a woman after threatening me. Do you really want to revisit that gay stuff again? Since hawgrider now wants to speculate about me, I would be justified in speculating about him. If hawgrider is not a homosexual, there is not a cow in the whole state of Texas. *He initiated* that conversation the first time. He's more worried about my sexuality than the discussion in the OP. Just saying.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Denton said:


> @Resister Jimmy, who is the "Guru"?
> 
> Now, in post #93, you attack Allen530 because he disagrees with your doctrine, rather than discussing the topic.
> In post #94, you assume he is talking about you when it is clear he was responding to someone else. I pointed that out, but you are too righteous to apologize to him.
> ...


Denton, you are like a little child. In each and *every* one of your examples, I am responding to a charge wherein I was attacked first. Essentially, what you're bitching about is me doing the same, exact thing you're doing. I'm not obligated to ignore it no more than you were obligated to spend your time following me around, afraid that your pet theories might get challenged.

If anyone wants to say that they were not referring to me, let them post and refer back to what they said and my response. I will be more than happy to apologize.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> When I went on vacation last week, this topic was about half of what it is now.
> I can't fully understand why I chose to read all the way through page 11, but here I am.
> Nothing new was added and nothing from the new pages surprised be in the least.


The most ironic part is, if you eliminate all the times wherein people came here and talked about me versus the topic, it takes up two pages and could have been discussed and forgotten about in two days.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Get back on your meds.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The Resister said:


> The most ironic part is, if you eliminate all the times wherein people came here and talked about me versus the topic, it takes up two pages and could have been discussed and forgotten about in two days.


The real irony of that is, when people chose to talk about the topic, and discuss why they felt you were wrong in your understanding, you considered it an attack on your person and responded as such.
If you would read the posts as written, and not try to read between the lines words that are not there, the discussion could be more productive, and shorter to boot.
A debate is going to have at least two sides. The person who introduces a topic does not get to hold full say on what is and is not right. The audience participating in the debate gets to add their opinion or reasoning if they hold an opposing view.
This is what makes it a debate. The original presenter should not take opposing views as personal attacks, nor should they try to belittle those who present said opposing views. Such responses are not conducive to a productive discussion.

This is not to say there were not actual personal attacks, and those can be addressed separately or ignored as irrelevant altogether, but not all opposing views were true attacks. To prevent additional such activity, it is best to avoid retaliation and counter-accusations.

We must also avoid the logical fallacy of authority. Nobody in this discussion can claim to be right or accuse others of being wrong simply because they have X number of years under their belt in some topic. Especially in a debate over true unknowns, we can only hope to present our side with sound reasoning, and let the argument stand on its own merit. Opposing views should strive to do the same. Let evidence and reasoning be the deciding factors. Not resumes or accusations.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

The Resister said:


> Denton, you are like a little child. In each and *every* one of your examples, I am responding to a charge wherein I was attacked first. Essentially, what you're bitching about is me doing the same, exact thing you're doing. I'm not obligated to ignore it no more than you were obligated to spend your time following me around, afraid that your pet theories might get challenged.
> 
> If anyone wants to say that they were not referring to me, let them post and refer back to what they said and my response. I will be more than happy to apologize.


I think they should oblige you and flip the switch. Obviously that is your mission. Arguing with one of the sites most senior Super Moderators will certainly close the deal. Tick tock tick tock tick tock.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Denton, you are like a little child. In each and *every* one of your examples, I am responding to a charge wherein I was attacked first. Essentially, what you're bitching about is me doing the same, exact thing you're doing. I'm not obligated to ignore it no more than you were obligated to spend your time following me around, afraid that your pet theories might get challenged.
> 
> If anyone wants to say that they were not referring to me, let them post and refer back to what they said and my response. I will be more than happy to apologize.


Again, you feel the need to try to insult. 
Last time, and either answer the question or I will assume you are simply here to troll for arguments. 
Who is this guru you say controls our beliefs?


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## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

hawgrider said:


> I think they should oblige you and flip the switch. Obviously that is your mission. Arguing with one of the sites most senior Super Moderators will certainly close the deal. Tick tock tick tock tick tock.


Mama is weary of this game. It's time to end that ticking for a while...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Cricket said:


> Mama is weary of this game. It's time to end that ticking for a while...


I wanted an answer! Dang it, Ma, I had it handled! 
I know that this time he was going to give a straight answer. Sure.


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## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

Since the OP is taking an extended break, I am going to go ahead and close this thread.

Let's find something else to discuss...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I swear I just heard the voice of my Great Aunt, who was born in the 1800’s, say something about “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.”


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

NewRiverGeorge said:


> I've always wondered when someone says they are not coming back to a topic, if they sneak back in anyway...


I do, and I am honest enough to admit it, you don't see that too much today. [I now applaud my sincerity, and pat myself on my back.]


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

hawgrider said:


> Yes the nice Lady Cricket cleaned up the wreckage from the barrage of hellfire missiles. Much is missing but thats OK shes just doing her job.
> Being an Administrator is usually a thankless job.... I can relate I have similar duties elsewhere. She is a very fair and forgiving Administrator. Just don't ever piss her off as Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! :tango_face_grin:


You have delivered clarity as always---Hellfire missiles-- now that is a problem solver right there . With all of the new, vocal members, and all of the old curmudgeon dinosaurs here; clean up has probably gotten to be a harder job.


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## allen530 (May 6, 2018)

bigwheel said:


> Suspect since Resister is scheduling the New Jerusalem to be in America...the Mo Mo Temple out in Utah will be the main attraction. Prob some kinda launching pad to get them to whatever planets they have been assigned to colonize. Now if hes really a Jehovah's Witness I take all this back of course.


The Mormons here where I live believe the third temple will be built in St. Lois, Missouri.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Then the door was closed.


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