# Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act



## PrepperForums (Nov 21, 2014)

What are your thoughts on the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act?

What impact (if any) do you feel it will have?



> As with every piece of legislation regarding your Second amendment rights, the critics are loud. You'd recognize the arguments. In fact, we've gone ahead and listed them below for your convenience. Also listed below are the facts to set straight the various misconceptions regarding the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017. Read through and tell us what you think! *Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act: Myth v. Facts*


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Government involved, FAIL. It will nothing more than a national registry..


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

So called "Free Staters" will shoot it down via backlash .


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm all for it, . . . get it done, . . . today is late, but better late than never.

There is no "national data base" of marriages, . . . driver's licenses, . . . divorces, . . . wills, . . . or even ketchup bottles. Why would this be any different???

May God bless,
Dwight


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

Go ahead a pass it, we are already in a government database, if ever bought a firearm, been to the doctors office, payed taxes, voted, participated in a ten year census, participated in a social media forum, did I miss anything? Your in a database......


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Steve40th said:


> Government involved, FAIL. It will nothing more than a national registry..


My name is on several lists already

Military retiree
Security Clearance
Social Security
FBI Back Ground
Drivers Lic
Gun Back Ground

Does anybody think the government could not find out if you have a weapon (ever buy a hunting license???)


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> My name is on several lists already
> 
> Military retiree
> Security Clearance
> ...


An omission of the largest magnitude my Friend ..... the prepper forums list.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

dwight55 said:


> I'm all for it, . . . get it done, . . . today is late, but better late than never.
> 
> There is no "national data base" of marriages, . . . driver's licenses, . . . divorces, . . . wills, . . . or even ketchup bottles. Why would this be any different???
> 
> ...


There is a national cross reference database of most things. But, due this being weapons, guns in particular, it will create a known database of who owns what and where. Do we really want the government to keep eroding privacy away?


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> My name is on several lists already
> 
> Military retiree
> Security Clearance
> ...


You are lucky they still let you fly with all those lists you are on.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Steve40th said:


> *There is a national cross reference database of most things.* But, due this being weapons, guns in particular, it will create a known database of who owns what and where. Do we really want the government to keep eroding privacy away?


 @Steve40th Please provide your reference(s) regarding this national database, and a link, website, and/or whatever you base your statement on. Thanks!


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

PrepperForums said:


> What are your thoughts on the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act?
> 
> What impact (if any) do you feel it will have?


The link you provided is dated Dec 6th.

HR38 did not pass - but was included in what did pass, along with the 'fix NICS' material. My last understanding is that the whole thing is dead in the Senate... but that may have changed, however.

There is a very good recent thread discussing this at length; if I can find it I'll edit a link to it in this post.

EDIT: Here are the links to the two most recent discussions among PF members.

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/...use-carry-reciprocity-moving-toward-vote.html

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/...merging-gun-control-ccw-reciprocity-bill.html


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I support the Nation's Oldest Reciprocity Law...

Its called the 2nd Amendment.

View attachment 65226


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Slippy said:


> I support the Nation's Oldest Reciprocity Law...
> 
> Its called the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> View attachment 65226


That ^^^^^ x10.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Once again, how complicated does this have to be?



> *A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*


Reciprocity has already been addressed by some pretty smart guys.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

As it stands now, a concealed carry permit in this state does not list the type, number, caliber or serial numbers of any firearm you posse. However, the PA state police do have a registry of at least hand gun purchases going way back. Being able to carry a firearm while traveling the interstate system legally is a bonus to me. Eliminates having to decide not to travel vs carrying illegally in some states vs going unarmed and trusting to the good will of every Tom, Dick and Harry out there. I am opposed to additional gun control as the price of admission. 

I say its easier to mark the foreheads of those who can not legally posses a firearm in an irreversible and unalterable fashion. A real mark of the beast if you will.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Phone books, spokeo.com, many places have tidbits of what MSA and FBI, etc. Your home is listed in public records. When you were born, fingerprints started as a database for FBI. I was in the military, and in the 80s they staryed taking DNA. Hmm


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Face it. The politicians fear average people way more than criminals. Just look how they hang together and avoid people like us. As has been stated many times: Its not about guns but all about control.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Steve40th said:


> *There is a national cross reference database of most things.* But, due this being weapons, guns in particular, it will create a known database of who owns what and where. Do we really want the government to keep eroding privacy away?





Steve40th said:


> Phone books, spokeo.com, many places have tidbits of what MSA and FBI, etc. Your home is listed in public records. When you were born, fingerprints started as a database for FBI. I was in the military, and in the 80s they staryed taking DNA. Hmm


 @*Steve40th* Your first post implied the items similar to what is listed in your second post are already being compiled into a singular "national cross reference database". It is that database I was referring to, as you likely knew. This is something a few of us stand on guard against, so please provide references or links to that "national cross reference database". Thanks.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> I'm all for it, . . . get it done, . . . today is late, but better late than never.
> 
> There is no "national data base" of marriages, . . . driver's licenses, . . . divorces, . . . wills, . . . or even ketchup bottles. Why would this be any different???
> 
> ...


Why would this be different? Beats me, but tell me why the God-given right to keep and bear arms is so regulated in the first place?


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> @*Steve40th* Your first post implied the items similar to what is listed in your second post are already being compiled into a singular "national cross reference database". It is that database I was referring to, as you likely knew. This is something a few of us stand on guard against, so please provide references or links to that "national cross reference database". Thanks.


Any LEO, Federal or State, can find data on you. They can do this in or out of state. Thats a database within itself, true? Whats it called. No idea.
But , they can look up a license plate, drivers license, ssn etc and find out almost anything.
Remember when a girl hit a Secret Service agent in DC? within a hour of her being killed, her entire background was on the news.. How?
Because the government has a database on everyone. proof? None, just the fact its easy to get information on you. 
Remember when the Vegas shooter incident happened. Within 2 days they had a video of him going into a casino from 11 years earlier. How?
Because there is a plethora of information on you out there available to some people.
Watch the 2007 film Look. We are being watched and their is a national database the government has on you. Call it what you want, NSA files, whatever. But its there.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Some of you guys remind me of the doofus types who covered their faces when we took group photos at Militia training and FTX events ...


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

dwight55 said:


> I'm all for it, . . . get it done, . . . today is late, but better late than never.
> 
> There is no "national data base" of marriages, . . . driver's licenses, . . . divorces, . . . wills, . . . or even ketchup bottles. Why would this be any different???
> 
> ...





Steve40th said:


> Any LEO, Federal or State, can find data on you. They can do this in or out of state. Thats a database within itself, true? Whats it called. No idea.
> But , they can look up a license plate, drivers license, ssn etc and find out almost anything.
> Remember when a girl hit a Secret Service agent in DC? within a hour of her being killed, her entire background was on the news.. How?
> Because the government has a database on everyone. proof? None, just the fact its easy to get information on you.
> ...


Thanks for your replies, Steve. I'm very familiar with what you've described. A clarion call for me is the eventual merging of all the 'databases' that are out there; not only LEO, but all gov agencies, commercial entities and now social (FaceBook,etc). The Second Amendment protects our right to keep and bear arms. The Fourth Amendment plays a big role in sustaining the Second.



> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable *searches* and seizures, shall not be violated....


There is no expectation of privacy online. But there should (imo) be a reasonable expectation of privacy when we go about our daily lives. It's nobody's business where I purchase my guns or butter... not the marketers who want to sway me to their product, not agencies that want to monitor what I purchase, and sure as hell not a centralized national depository into which all gathered information about everyone and everything auto-uploads...and is accessible through a simple *search*.

No one really cares what kind of ketchup Dwight buys; but there may come a day when someone will. Just the data being available is mind boggling...especially as there's no control over who, or what, will be doing the 'searching'.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> My name is on several lists already
> 
> Military retiree
> Security Clearance
> ...


You forgot about your library card...


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

PrepperForums said:


> What are your thoughts on the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act?
> 
> What impact (if any) do you feel it will have?


 Reciprocity act is a bill that has been stupefied by the idiot Democrats. We don't need this to become a law. I say carry anyway, besides you need to be descreet and be able to carry without being detected. Why get permission from the government? It's better to say sorry later than to get permission now.

If the government says that you are no longer allowed to own or posses a firearm, are you just going to roll over and obey... Or are you going to get armed even if you get it from the black market? Me personally, I will always have something to defend myself with. Screw the govt.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

Steve40th said:


> Government involved, FAIL. It will nothing more than a national registry..


wrong



Gator Monroe said:


> So called "Free Staters" will shoot it down via backlash .


why would they do that?
Many Truckers cross stateliness and always have to comply with the various states laws...
I'm 100% for it, just to give a big FU to NYC and NJ!


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

If it happens then there will be nationwide requirements (Imagine having to Jump through hoops to get an Initial that rival California's Anal Exam process or having higher fees and a Face to Face interview with issuing CLEO or Sheriff to sign off on initial , and more expensive class time and no mail in on renewals ... THIS IS WHY MANY POSTERS HERE ARE AGAINST IT ...


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## theprepared (Nov 6, 2017)

AFAIK there won't be a singular national database, but it'll function similar to drivers licenses / car registrations today. If you're checked by LE in a foreign state, they can check against your home state's database pretty quickly.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

This ^^^


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

A friend related a story about driving thru Maryland--
The cop ran his tag, found out he had a carry permit, and stopped him to search his car.
Think you have privacy??


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

tango said:


> A friend related a story about driving thru Maryland--
> The cop ran his tag, found out he had a carry permit, and stopped him to search his car.
> Think you have privacy??


Did your friend give consent?


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

MountainGirl said:


> @Steve40th Please provide your reference(s) regarding this national database, and a link, website, and/or whatever you base your statement on. Thanks!


MG you may not realize it but depending on your state, you may already be on a nationwide data base. Here in VA if you have a CCW it's entered into our DMV data base. So when a trooper runs your license, it pops up that you have a ccw. I can't ever remember running an out of state DL and getting a CCW hit back, but I stopped doing traffic stops almost 7 years ago so some things may have changed


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I live in PA. A friend had his father in law die ( natural causes) and was at the house immediately after the death was called in. A PA state cop was on the scene and ran the deceased thru a data base. The cop knew about every pistol the dead gentleman had. He insisted that the home be searched until every pistol was found and accounted for. Also, I know for sure that in some counties here, the fact that you have a CCW absolutely shows up on the computer for the cop doing the traffic stop. So if you believe that there are no databases for gun registration, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)

Quick question...I have a Concealed Carry permit and if this passes, does that mean this country boy could conceal carry in New York City or Chicago or any other current non gun friendly city in the country??


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Real Old Man said:


> MG you may not realize it but depending on your state, you may already be on a nationwide data base. Here in VA if you have a CCW it's entered into our DMV data base. So when a trooper runs your license, it pops up that you have a ccw. I can't ever remember running an out of state DL and getting a CCW hit back, but I stopped doing traffic stops almost 7 years ago so some things may have changed


Yes, Sir, things may have changed in the last 7 yrs. 
Thanks for your reply


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

NewRiverGeorge said:


> Quick question...I have a Concealed Carry permit and if this passes, does that mean this country boy could conceal carry in New York City or Chicago or any other current non gun friendly city in the country??


Even if it did pass, and even if it did mean that ^^^ - it's always a crap shoot as to whether the local powers will honor any CCR changes, or how far they would be willing to 'set an example' for others who might think they have the right to, you know, keep and bear arms. Stay safe.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'm always proud to return after a short hiatus, and see that others are carrying the banner in my place. @MountainGirl, @Denton, asking the right questions there!

Nothing, in any form of the bill we've seen, mentions anything about databases being established, or linked, or made available. All the bills say that if the person presents an official state carry ID, or their driver license shows them to be from a state where carry is not restricted, then the officer must presume the person is carrying lawfully. There is no further action to be taken by the officer. Any additional action, to verify or what have you, could be considered outside the legal bounds, and grounds for a harassment suit.

Denton asking the right questions about consent being given for that vehicle search. Noticing that you have a permit to carry a gun is NOT sufficient cause to stop you for a vehicle search, as having the permit is not illegal, even if you are driving through a state that does not honor the permit. The stop would be based on nothing but assumption, and any evidence discovered during a non-consensual search would be inadmissible in court.

As for the bill, if we can get a clean one, I support it. I wasn't too happy about the Fix Nics stuff, but it wasn't quite as bad as people wanted us to think. Too many *coulds* and *ifs* for me, to consider those risks plausible.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

@Kauboy - A cop should always be cognizant of his constitutional flagstones and insure that he is always standing on them. A citizen should always know his rights. When a citizen runs up against a cop who is willing to step off the constitutional flagstone, he should conduct himself in a manner that ill reflect well on his behavior when it reaches the USSC. If you do that, you'll probably not have to see it all the way to the USSC.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

A CCW/CHL/CWP should show up on a run of your Vehicle tags/ Drivers Liscense ( Just as if you must wear prescription lenses )


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Gator Monroe said:


> A CCW/CHL/CWP should show up on a run of your Vehicle tags/ Drivers Liscense ( Just as if you must wear prescription lenses )


Bump for it to sink in ...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Gator Monroe said:


> A CCW/CHL/CWP should show up on a run of your Vehicle tags/ Drivers Liscense ( Just as if you must wear prescription lenses )


_Should?_ Are you saying you think it should, or are you suggesting this is the case, now?

This is not the case in Alabama, and I'd be willing to bet other states are like Alabama.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> _Should?_ Are you saying you think it should, or are you suggesting this is the case, now?
> 
> This is not the case in Alabama, and I'd be willing to bet other states are like Alabama.


Since Texas has placed LTC jurisdiction under the Department of Safety, the same entity as the one that handles driver licenses and car registration, I can guarantee it shows up any time my tags or license are run.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Since Texas has placed LTC jurisdiction under the Department of Safety, the same entity as the one that handles driver licenses and car registration, I can guarantee it shows up any time my tags or license are run.


Here in Alabama, you buy the CCP from the sheriff's office. They don't talk to the court house.

It'd be kind of handy if they did, though. I've been known to forget my creds, but I do know my DL number. Sure, you're supposed to have your cards with you, but I've never been ticketed for that. I am usually ticketed for the reason for the stop. If I fly out of the house without my wallet, you can probably imagine the reason for the stop. :vs_laugh:


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Denton said:


> _Should?_ Are you saying you think it should, or are you suggesting this is the case, now?
> 
> This is not the case in Alabama, and I'd be willing to bet other states are like Alabama.


Guess some folks missed my earlier post. It has popped up here in VA DMV license checks by cops for at least the last ten or so years.

Remember your CCW is a public record. At least here in VA it is. Anyone can go to their local Circuit court and check on an individuals ccw


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> Guess some folks missed my earlier post. It has popped up here in VA DMV license checks by cops for at least the last ten or so years.
> 
> Remember your CCW is a public record. At least here in VA it is. Anyone can go to their local Circuit court and check on an individuals ccw


Got that. Point is, my CCP won't come up when 27, 28 and 29 are run on a traffic stop. Not yet, anyway. We might get around to doing that, if it doesn't cost too much money.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Denton

If your state CCP doesn't show up in the DMV data base then that's great for you . For those of us in states where it does I believe it will come across when a Cop in another state runs my 27, 28 or 29 even if that state doesn't capture it


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> Denton
> 
> If your state CCP doesn't show up in the DMV data base then that's great for you . For those of us in states where it does I believe it will come across when a Cop in another state runs my 27, 28 or 29 even if that state doesn't capture it


It will, yes. That can be a bummer.


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## 0rocky (Jan 7, 2018)

I'd REALLY like to see a CC Reciprocity Act passed. Even if it is initially watered down. It would be a start. For one thing it would _hopefully_ eliminate the need for the following statement just copied from my states Concealed Firearms Permit page; "*State firearms laws and reciprocity agreements are subject to frequent change, and furthermore, are subject to court interpretation."

Currently able to 'conceal carry' in + 30 states. I insert the quotes because 2 states come to mind that I would like to comment on further. Vermont and Pennsylvania allow me to carry concealed but the cities of Burlington and Philadelphia, in the respective states claim more restrictions. Now I could spout off about states vs. city regulations and what takes precedence but in a real-life situation it would bankrupt me to 'prove my point' in the legal system. Not having a law degree, I'm of the opinion that a national reciprocity statute should weaken the legal position of cities of this ilk.

I applied for my permit because, like the wallet I sometimes forget to carry and the pistol I sometimes forget to leave behind, I find myself in a neighboring state and didn't want to have to look over my shoulder for fear of winding up in the local hoosegow for an error of omission or in this case inclusion. It would be real nice if I could apply this standard to the country as a whole.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

It's all wrong, imo. 
Trying to fix something that should never have existed in the first place -
- only reinforces the justification for it being there.
_Shall not be infringe_d - is pretty clear, to me.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Since Texas has placed LTC jurisdiction under the Department of Safety, the same entity as the one that handles driver licenses and car registration, I can guarantee it shows up any time my tags or license are run.


Yep..been that way for a long time.


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

In Jefferson the CHL is tied into the DMV. About 10 years ago I was pulled over. The first thing the LEO asked as he walked up was: "Mr. Gunn are you carrying tonight?"


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Gunn said:


> In Jefferson the CHL is tied into the DMV. About 10 years ago I was pulled over. The first thing the LEO asked as he walked up was: "Mr. Gunn are you carrying tonight?"


Ditto here in Oregon. I was once told (and this was YEARS ago) that local LEO supervisors where instructing their officers to not issue tickets to CWP holding citizens pulled over for rolling stops, brake lights, and other such mundane traffic infractions... to let them go with a warning. Within weeks of hearing this, I was pulled over for a tail light being out. The officer insisted on writing a ticket despite my assurances that I had bulbs in my glove box and would fix it right away before continuing on. He went back to his squad to re-check my stats (I guess that stuff came up slower in the old days) then immediately walked back to my car. "Mr. XYZ, are you packing"? "Why yes, I am officer." "Is it on your person"? "Yes, I have a .45 over my right hip under my jacket". He scowled at me (yes an actual scowl) and said "Get that light fixed". And off he went, no ticket. This was right after Oregon went to a "must issue" policy on CWP and was therefore an adjustment period for all of us... citizens and LEO's alike.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

Unless President Trump forces Bitch McConnell it never see a vote.


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## 590a1 (Feb 1, 2018)

PrepperForums said:


> What are your thoughts on the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act?
> 
> What impact (if any) do you feel it will have?


It's not worth a damn as it has the Feinstein/Cornyn NICS fix attached to it. This is basically a national gun registry is what it is going to amount to.

I hope it dies as written and gets brought back without the anti gun commie crap attached to it.

I am more for the hearing protection act passing.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

> The showdown over the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-showdown/


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

RedLion said:


> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-showdown/


Leave it to the media to botch up the facts...
"If you can carry in your home state, you can carry in any city in the nation."
That is factually incorrect.
I hate stupid people, but I hate liars more.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Lie-ers ?


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Is this bill still alive?


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## pakrat (Nov 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> Is this bill still alive?


https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...ir-constituents-on-right-to-carry-reciprocity

"On April 19, the International Association of Chiefs of Police sent Congress a letter expressing their opposition to the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 (H.R. 38/S. 446). This legislation would ensure that a person who is licensed to carry a concealed firearm in one state could do so in all other states. The letter was adopted by 473 officials from all over the country."


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Ya' know, I quit "hiding" my knives and other ammunition from the local Federales. They don't come to my house anymore, and when I hear a rifle shot somewhere in my neighborhood the cops never ring my doorbell. I guess for them the "upwardly mobile" residents have become boring.

I hear we have the usual crowd of teenagers who hot-wire cars. Of course, it was easier to do in older 1950s cars. Frankly, I don't find this "new breed" of tough guys to be tough, at all. They don't seem to rob people, they just talk on their phones...


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