# They'll Hit You Early in the Morning



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I was reminded of this in another thread. The other thread made me realize that all things are not inherently known and I might need to say something.

For those of you who have infantry or military police background, move along, else wise you are about to be bored into a coma. Fair warning! :lol:

I am a Christian, and my ethics, morals and principle are anchored in my faith, but for the sake of this discussion, I am a bad guy. Not only am I a bad guy, but like so many other people, I am a bad guy who has been trained by Uncle Sam. I am with a small group of like-minded heathens who see no reason to restrain my carnal nature, and raiding your place seems to be a very good idea.

The size of my group will vary, but for now, I am with a group that is about ten to twelve in strength. We are armed with light weapons, such as M-4s and AKs. Most of us have been trained by good ol' Uncle Sugar, and the ones who weren't have been given rudimentary training in tactics.

We noticed activity at your place. Looks like you have a nice little thing going on, with the crops, chickens and weapons. We could certainly use the extra ammo that goes along with the weapons you have. You guys are working hard, too. Sure, folks are carrying weapons, but everyone seems to be really putting the back to the plow, so to speak. We also noticed y'all get up with the sun and begin the chores me and my guys aren't willing to do. Good deal. Tomorrow morning will be a good morning, for sure. Your women will be making my guys scrambled eggs. Right now, we are going to pull back and get some rest. We've taken note of the layout of the building, the dogs, and your routine. Now, all we need to do is be bright eyed and bushy tailed for the 0230 assault.

Denton is now out of character.

5-Hour Energy. I said all that to suggest 5 Hour Energy stocking. The rag-tag zombies looking for a hand-out will beat on your door when the sun is up, but those who know what they are doing will wait until humans are at their sleepiest. This is a tactical fact, and you'd better be ready to make a lot of noise when the group comes visiting. You'll do this by having people outside, watching and listening. They'll need to be far enough away from the settlement that those who are sleeping will be able to react fast enough to not be caught still reaching for their pants. 5 Hour Energy shots (or the store brand labels) will help keep your first line of defense from dosing off at the worst time of the early hours.

Hopefully, a good, noisy response followed by disciplined movement from the dwellings will give the team of renegades reason to move on in search of easier targets. After all, who wants to bleed and waste ammo when there are so many easy pickings out there?

By the way, I have no investment in energy drinks, so do think I am advertising.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Not being LE or military, I did know that from other things. The 5 hr energy was something I had never thought of. Thanks!


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> Not being LE or military, I did know that from other things. The 5 hr energy was something I had never thought of. Thanks!


I'm here for you, Brother!

Oh, you might want to pick up a couple copies of FM 7-8. You can download it from the internet, nowadays. It'll help you and yours learn how to move in organized, efficient teams. The guy who gulped down a energy shot is gonna need help!


----------



## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

Between 2 and 5 am is PRIME TIME!!


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Made me think about something that I gave very little thought. Thank you sir.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

A warm can of Coca Cola is (to me) as good as the 5 hour stuff.

It was one of the "preferred" things that would accompany me in the machine gun tower when I was on duty.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

5 hour energy makes my sights shake,half a jolt cola and I am not so bad myself,BP gets too high and I get wierd and wired from too much caffeine and other additives.


----------



## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I give myself shots of b-12 a few times a week. That on top of a Monster energy drink from time to time and oh yea!!!


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Stand to
The time before sun rise that security goes from the reduced watch to 100% up and ready. Normally 1 hour before sun rise.
Reason before modern day night vision fighting was not very productive at night. So early morning strikes were a common tactic .
Some say it comes from the French /Indian wars. The watch is set by Company commander and or 1SG ,set in a percentage based on perceived threat.
Example of duty order of watch, watch reduced to 70% rotating rest so each soldier gets 4 hours down time with stand to at 0430. At 0430 100% at ready.
Followed by either mass or tactical feed.


----------



## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Yep, that's why you must have a rotating guard set, communications and system to alert your main force, the training to react fast, knowing your weak and entry points, and work as a team with a solid plan of defense uses your strengths and covering your weaknesses. I like the 5 hour idea, but prefer Red Bull. I think I'll stock up on some. Why not. I've also been downing a lot of these at work and like them a lot. Yummy energy goodness.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

There is a variation in every individual. I think it is natures way of preserving the species. I have no problem staying up at the hours quoted and sleeping during the day. Probably one reason I worked 3rd shift for the last 20 years.


----------



## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Denton said:


> I was reminded of this in another thread. The other thread made me realize that all things are not inherently known and I might need to say something.
> 
> For those of you who have infantry or military police background, move along, else wise you are about to be bored into a coma. Fair warning! :lol:
> 
> ...


I'm a night owl. Your gonna have a surprise waiting for you.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Fuzzee said:


> Yep, that's why you must have a rotating guard set, communications and system to alert your main force, the training to react fast, knowing your weak and entry points, and work as a team with a solid plan of defense uses your strengths and covering your weaknesses. I like the 5 hour idea, but prefer Red Bull. I think I'll stock up on some. Why not. I've also been downing a lot of these at work and like them a lot. Yummy energy goodness.
> 
> View attachment 3475


That'll work.

I like 5 Hours because it is less fluid, fits in my pocket and doesn't make it me jittery. It simply makes me awake and more alert. Of course, everyone is different.

I see there are other people here who will be taking the late watch for the same reasons I will. You'll see me taking a hit of the Berry flavored juice in the afternoon and am a natural irritant to the normal people during our overtime hours.:mrgreen:
The target of the thread is the people who are normal in sleep patterns and have never stood sentry, sat an LP/OP, and has never taken part in an early morning mission, but are going to want to survive until the next morning.

As a reminder to the rest of us who are no longer 21 year old immortals, physical and mental stress is going to be grinding, and little bottles of perkiness might be a good thing to have. I, for one, am no longer superman. Matter of fact, I look more like Lex Luthor, now. :roll:


----------



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Not only am I a knight owl I have thermo and NV so here is what I think about a bunch of rats attacking at night.


----------



## Mic (Jul 19, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Not only am I a knight owl I have thermo and NV so here is what I think about a bunch of rats attacking at night.


Nice video! Looks like fun, although it would suck to have to be doing it.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Not only am I a knight owl I have thermo and NV so here is what I think about a bunch of rats attacking at night.


LOL!!! Cool video. Rats go nite-nite.


----------



## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Denton said:


> That'll work.
> 
> I like 5 Hours because it is less fluid, fits in my pocket and doesn't make it me jittery. It simply makes me awake and more alert. Of course, everyone is different.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm not superman anymore either. Those days of staying up all night howling at the moon, getting a few hours sleep and back at it again are long gone. I'm fairly regular on sleep, but I can change my sleep patterns given a little time too. If it comes down to it, I'll wake right up if sleeping, smack myself in the face and go. After things settle down and the killing is done if someone were to attack my group, post shtf, I'll lie back down and go to sleep, no problem. It's smart though to have the large body of people go to bed shortly after dark so their rested in part even if their woken in the night at 3 am because of trouble. If they hit the sack at 8 pm, that's still 7 hours or so. I basically live on about 6 hours of sleep or so, but can get by with less. A quick power nap in the day and I'm ready to go and refreshed. The large body of a group going to sleep early and waking up early can take the most advantage of daylight work hours too instead of wasting it. Anyone who feels they are special and want to sleep in can leave or go hungrier for not pulling their weight. Guards of course get their due because they earned it, but when shtf and things are tough, everyone will have to toughen up to survive.


----------



## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Denton said:


> I was reminded of this in another thread. The other thread made me realize that all things are not inherently known and I might need to say something.
> 
> For those of you who have infantry or military police background, move along, else wise you are about to be bored into a coma. Fair warning! :lol:
> 
> ...


Really? Well Denton, just for your information, I now plan on becoming a meth head tweeker during shtf. So not only will I be wide awake at 0230, but I'll be paranoid and see all kinds of shit hiding in the bushes. Including you. Didn't see that comin' did ya'? How's your plan now?

By the way...great wake up scenario buddy. That's how I'd do it.


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I wonder how many "groups" of 10-12 well armed and readied thieves would be capable of doing 7 days of survelliance before engaging or even ten? And would they be capable of doing 10 days of survelliance without being seen or noticed by a group bent on finding them day and night. Would they be prepared for random drones the search areas the target group can't see well from their point of strength? Would they notice the traps set for them on the way in? Would they be able to tell there are 3 entities on the property that are only "out" at night and sleep during the day; their routine makes it possible for them to avoid the gardening for their job is merely night patrol and sentry duty? What distance would they assume they are safe from being noticed? 1000 yards - 2000?

Energy drinks have a fairly limited shelf life. Better to keep a group well prepared for all hours.


----------



## roy (May 25, 2013)

Indians always attack at dawn.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I forgot about this until someone mention it. B-12 has a longer self life in tablet form. I used to use it quite a bit.


----------



## sargedog (Nov 12, 2012)

Sad to say I have insomnia and I usually sleep from 12-1 maybe 2 in the afternoon and that's it. So if they come at dawn I will get my favorite thing. Coffee and gun powder in the morning.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I sleep pretty light but not light enough to hear a troop getting too close. But if they come in in the wee hours of the morning they will let me know they are coming. It is difficult to be quiet when you are hit with a rake or step into a leg-hold or trip a pipe mortar that is buried in the ground with a pressure switch. It is fairly easy to predict where people will move when a mortar goes off in front of them - especially if there is some "shelter" close by. At any rate all that yelling and screaming is likely to wake the wife up and she is NOT a morning person! Then I'll hear her yelling and the boys firing and I will grab my gun and head for my switch-board to detonate the ones that are not on pressure switches. It is possible that half of that group might not get caught in the traps but they are going to be busy thinking about what they have stepped into and how they are going to get out of it. All we will have to think about is which one needs to get hit next.....

I guess what I am saying is that there are a lot of ways to protect yourself without necessarily becoming a target yourself. Sneaking in can be a very dangerous thing to do when there is no rule of law. You just have to think of attackers as wild animals that are dangerous to you and your family. Then you throw the rules of engagement out the window and start surviving.


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I can't seem to sleep past about 5 am, usually fully alert by 5:15 or so. Unless they come in the dark I will be up, and that is what booby traps, sentries, and trip alarms are for.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

At 5am with no coffee, i'll really be pissed off.


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Denton said:


> I was reminded of this in another thread. The other thread made me realize that all things are not inherently known and I might need to say something.
> 
> For those of you who have infantry or military police background, move along, else wise you are about to be bored into a coma. Fair warning! :lol:
> 
> ...


I'll play your "game"

My first line of defense is my 100lb German shepard which can smell your fat ass at 100 yards before you even get close to my house.

12 people regardless of skill will suffer a major set back when breaching my home, no we will probably not get you all, but we will send your 12 man squad back to the wood shed with few survivors.

Here is the point, everyone should fight as hard as they can against "bad asses" and after very few encounters they will be DEAD.

It isn't about "me" surviving" it is about "US" surviving and it doesn't matter if it is a band of shit heads like this scenario or a band of TSA the concept is the same.

Make them bleed more that WE do as a collective and then we win


----------



## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

With a German shepherd that barks while hiding in the shadows, she's my first alarm system. 

She barks at things that don't "belong." I always look out the window when she barks. Not because I'm paranoid, but because something is usually there. And just because I don't or can't see what she's barking at, doesn't mean there's nothing there. I live on the only dirt road in this part of the city with no street lights. It gets pretty dark lol

So if she barks and I can't see, I'm hunkering down by the door and waiting for them to come to me. I have a narrow hallway one way in one way out. Funnel them to that narrow spot and open fire. 

That of course is last last resort and I've already lost. 

I'll probably sneak out the side, and toss a can or something in the opposite direction of where I'm in/where the dogs are barking. Then when they open fire, I see where they're at, and return fire.


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Oh and I am waiting form my IRS audit for the last post, I'll keep you informed


----------



## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Montana Rancher said:


> Oh and I am waiting form my IRS audit for the last post, I'll keep you informed


An IRS audit is no big deal. I was audited. When they did not find a single dime on the year they audited me for, they started looking into the previous year, then the following year. When they still did not find anything, they slinked away with dejected looks on their faces. - That was the fun part.


----------



## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

0726 Zulu, 0226 Local, and all is quiet on the watch deck. This MT Dew doesn't seem to be helping.. sleep is waaaaaay over rated, even for 12 hour night watches.... If i had planned on an attack this would be the exact time i would launch it, late enough to where people staying up till midnight or 1am have fallen and been asleep for a short bit but early enough to where people arnt getting up and getting ready for early work 3-4am.



Ripon said:


> Energy drinks have a fairly limited shelf life. Better to keep a group well prepared for all hours.


^^ This


----------



## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

When the day is done
and you wanna ride on 
Coffee!

I will be ready and waiting...happiness is a warm gun.


----------



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I've considered this from time to time. We plan on dividing our cadre into shifts. Several people would be on perimeter watch around the clock. We will train in bounding overwatch, Australian peel, deploying skirmishers, ambush, attacking an ambush and other combat tactics. If there is contact with a group of marauders we will not sell ourselves cheap. Night time is also primetime for fishing and hunting certain species. I've even considered where to bury those that would mean to do us harm. Photographing them, documentation and a decent burial for eventual return to their families.

Wise man once say: There's enough time for sleep when we are dead.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Your treatment of dead attacking marauders is much more humane that mine would be. I would dig a mass grave, dump them all in, then cover them up and forget them. Of course I would search them first for any useful items. I think that it might be a mistake to inform their relatives of the final disposition of their family members. They would certainly not be happy with you, many would excuse their relative's actions and place all blame for their deaths on you, and many would seek revenge. Then there is the possible problem of if/when things return to somewhat normal and their relatives show up with the new local law enforcement officers accusing YOU of murder. I can hear it now "Poor sweet Johnny just asked if you if he could trade you some things in exchange for food for his children and you gunned him down and stole everything he had". Sorry for sounding so cynical. My arthritis is flaring up and I am a little grumpy.

Sorry, back on subject.... You HAVE to plan for 24 hour security, one reason for having multiple people banding together. A very long time ago when I was a 11B we used to take the instant coffee packet out of the C-rations and put it in the cheek of your mouth like chewing tobacco to help stay awake.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> Your treatment of dead attacking marauders is much more humane that mine would be. I would dig a mass grave, dump them all in, then cover them up and forget them. Of course I would search them first for any useful items. I think that it might be a mistake to inform their relatives of the final disposition of their family members. They would certainly not be happy with you, many would excuse their relative's actions and place all blame for their deaths on you, and many would seek revenge. Then there is the possible problem of if/when things return to somewhat normal and their relatives show up with the new local law enforcement officers accusing YOU of murder. I can hear it now "Poor sweet Johnny just asked if you if he could trade you some things in exchange for food for his children and you gunned him down and stole everything he had". Sorry for sounding so cynical. My arthritis is flaring up and I am a little grumpy.
> 
> Sorry, back on subject.... You HAVE to plan for 24 hour security, one reason for having multiple people banding together. A very long time ago when I was a 11B we used to take the instant coffee packet out of the C-rations and put it in the cheek of your mouth like chewing tobacco to help stay awake.


Always appreciate the input of 11-Bush folks.
Yup, I've dipped C-Rat coffee in the past. :lol: Those weren't the days, huh? I don't contaminate coffee with sugar or cream because I never wanted to get used to such niceties.

Don't think my body could dip it, anymore. Pretty sure it would give me a serious case of jitters.


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> Your treatment of dead attacking marauders is much more humane that mine would be. I would dig a mass grave, dump them all in, then cover them up and forget them. Of course I would search them first for any useful items. I think that it might be a mistake to inform their relatives of the final disposition of their family members. They would certainly not be happy with you, many would excuse their relative's actions and place all blame for their deaths on you, and many would seek revenge. Then there is the possible problem of if/when things return to somewhat normal and their relatives show up with the new local law enforcement officers accusing YOU of murder. I can hear it now "Poor sweet Johnny just asked if you if he could trade you some things in exchange for food for his children and you gunned him down and stole everything he had". Sorry for sounding so cynical. My arthritis is flaring up and I am a little grumpy.
> 
> Sorry, back on subject.... You HAVE to plan for 24 hour security, one reason for having multiple people banding together. A very long time ago when I was a 11B we used to take the instant coffee packet out of the C-rations and put it in the cheek of your mouth like chewing tobacco to help stay awake.


Mass grave? The hogs and dogs need feedin don't ya know


----------



## Rob Roy (Nov 6, 2013)

Sleeping during a shtf era has been my main concern all along. Not being attacked while sleeping, but actually getting to sleep, due to the concern of being attacked. One of the first items we began stocking because of this was door alarms. I don't see how anyone could sleep sound during night time hours of a shtf scenario. Unless of course you are an owner of a good dog. But then the dog can also give you away if it's a group of marauders who are more gang-trained than officially trained.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Rob Roy said:


> Sleeping during a shtf era has been my main concern all along. Not being attacked while sleeping, but actually getting to sleep, due to the concern of being attacked. One of the first items we began stocking because of this was door alarms. I don't see how anyone could sleep sound during night time hours of a shtf scenario. Unless of course you are an owner of a good dog. But then the dog can also give you away if it's a group of marauders who are more gang-trained than officially trained.


I hear ya, but there is a difference getween laying in bed with insomnia and dozing off while on watch. It is amazing how the body can seemingly work against you.

Yeah, I'm not a big dog fan. Using them as an alarm can work against you. Using a patrol dog to locate bad guys is good, assuking you have a platoon to back you up.


----------



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

They'll hit me in the early morning hours, I see...well at lest I'll be awake for it and can provide an appropriate welcome and have the coffee on. I'm a confirmed night owl, so that's primetime for me. Now if they were to show up mid afternoon I might be a bit groggy.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Seneca said:


> They'll hit me in the early morning hours, I see...well at lest I'll be awake for it and can provide an appropriate welcome and have the coffee on. I'm a confirmed night owl, so that's primetime for me. Now if they were to show up mid afternoon I might be a bit groggy.


LOL! Me, too. I go in to work in the afternoon and am a grumpy old bastard until the sun goes down. Afterward, I am happy and focused. Of course, this thread wasn't designed for us but for those who might need some 0300 assistance and didn't think about picking some up.

I looked at a carton of energy shots I bought a couple weeks ago. They are good until 04/15. Not a bad shelf life for something I use, anyway. Same as the canned beans.

Anyway, for those who didn't think about them, they are an idea. It's easy to forget about things like that, just like some folks might forget about stocking up on toothbrushes. Just like toothbrushes, some folks might not need energy shots. :lol:


----------



## jesstheshow (Nov 18, 2013)

In this case, I have been very thankful for my husband's military training. we have taken much thought in this, planned a routine with our "group" and whattaya know... ENERGY SHOTS!!! woo hoo!


----------



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I tried one of those energy drinks, once...I was up for three days. I seem to have enough nervous energy as it is, that even at my age that I don't need a boost. I've see young people drink that stuff like water. I don't know how they do it, I'd never sleep again.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

No madder how bad it gets ,there comes a point you will sleep.
Army studies have shown that if a solider can get 4 hours out of 24 he can retain enough of an edge to fight for extended periods


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I agree with this one 100%, but to be 110% I start at 850 yards not 100.



Montana Rancher said:


> I'll play your "game"
> 
> My first line of defense is my 100lb German shepard which can smell your fat ass at 100 yards before you even get close to my house.
> 
> ...


----------



## Old Seer (Dec 2, 2013)

The five hour zip fluid is a excellent idea---But- It's best to rely on good ole mother nature. Keep the energy stuff for emergencies. The problem with relying on artificials is they tend to create bad habits. You're eventually going to run out. Remedy---everyone get their proper rest and rack time. IE-Don't do 4 hour guard duty, cut it to 2. Having plenty experience with guard duty I can say by the end of a 4 hour watch things are getting really boring and the alert switch may have turned off. Toward the end of the 4 hour watch the expectation if being relieved causes complacency from a mind set of---gee, I hope my relief isn't late, and attention span may have gone to zero from, nothing is expected to happen in the next 15 minutes. Do rotating watches so each has their turn during the night time drudgeries. Normally, there's natural tired time at 10:00, about 14;00 and 18:00, especially after evening meals. The 5 hour zip is good for those times when there's no time for proper nutrition,and very good to have with while on duty.


----------

