# Generator problems



## Dirk Pitt (Apr 21, 2015)

I see a spot for alternative power but not one for “traditional”? Power. So forgive me if this is in the wrong place. 

I have a Champion gas generator, 2850 / 3300 
Watts. I am the original owner and very low hours probably less than 100.

The issue is it won’t start. Last time I used it, there were no issues. 
Here is what I have done so far.

Replaced spark plug 

Checked for spark on plug all good, even the old one had spark but changed it anyway. 

Drained out old gas (only a few months old), but just did everything I could think of. 

Blew out all fuel lines going from tank to carb. 

Checked oil, i know some units have a low oil cut off. Oil level ok. 

Tried starting, nothing. 

Tried moving choke different positions, nothing. 

I shot Thrust (engine starter) into carb and directly into cylinder with spark plug out. Tried again the engine sputtered ran just a bit, very little only a few seconds then died. Tried this over and over same result. It seemed to consume the starter fluid and that’s it. It is acting like it is starving for fuel, but the fuel lines are all clear.

I am out of ideas, any words of wisdom would help!

Thank you


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Running E10 corn gas in it?

Carb is probably full of snot that stuff makes.

1) Don't run E10 gas

2) Shut off fuel and drain carb when not in use.

3) Get a carb kit and clean it out, then install inline fuel filter.

4) one other thought, float in carb is stuck shut (another thing E10 does), give the carb a few taps and see if drain on float bowl flows fuel. Check float bowl anyway, no gas no run, full of snot no
run.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Unless it is set up to start automatically, . . . you should never leave gas in it.

Honestly, . . . I would order a new carb, . . . pitch the old one.

When you run it, . . . suck out what fuel is in it, . . . then run it until it runs out of fuel, . . . only way known to man to make sure a small gas engine will work the next time.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Needle is stuck in the seat so no gas flow.
Take the bowl off gently and maybe you won't need a new gasket. Then free the needle that's attached to the float from the seat. Flush the seat with some carb cleaner and reassemble.

To test my theory remove the air cleaner and squirt some gas in the throat of the carb. If it fires then my theory is correct and proceed with my recommendation.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> Unless it is set up to start automatically, . . . you should never leave gas in it.
> 
> Honestly, . . . I would order a new carb, . . . pitch the old one.
> 
> ...


Dwight,

I have 40 year old equipment (tractors, tillers, mowers, splitters,...... that never had carb problems until E10, a 70 year old 9N Ford too. I've had to rebuild all the carbs and won't put E10 in ever again. My 2-strokes/chainsaws run 100LL AV gas, and if I'm out, premium ethanol free.

MP


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Agree that you have carb problems as stated above. I only run non-ethanol aviation gas in my generator. I still put stabilizer in the gas but I test run for a few minutes each month to keep fresh gas in the carb. After having all the headaches associated with E10 gas, I only run non-ethanol gas in all my small engines. I save ave-gas for the generator and get non-ethanol pump gas from a station 40 miles away for use in mowers, chainsaw, trimmers, and everything else. Every fall I run everything dry (except the genny) to eliminate any possibility of gumming up the carb over winter. I want the generator gassed up and ready at a moments notice, so I test run monthly.


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## Dirk Pitt (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks for all the great info I do appreciate it , As far as the E 10 I have no idea what any of that stuff means. I have seen lots of references to it I just don’t get what all that means. I go down to the gas station and I buy premium I do use that. When I have used it in the past I always turn off the gas fuel valve and let it burn off all the fuel in the carburetor that way there’s none of these issues so it’s completely dry I do not store it with any fuel in it carburetor I mean. The fuel I do have in it in the gas tank I treat with STABIL. 
I will follow the advice and just order another carburetor and start from there 
Thanks again.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I agree with everyone.
Your carb is “junked up” with varnish and sludge.
I would try Hawgs recommendation first, gently remove float bowl. At that point you can get at both the needle valve and the main jet.
Most needle valves have a rubber tip, this is probably stuck in the seat.
Use spray carburetor cleaner liberally in the float bowl, main jet, thru the venturi, thru the needle valve.

Always use non ethanol gas in your small engines, I also treat mine with Star Tron, and Sea Foam. Two additives that keep the inside of carburetors clean.


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## Dirk Pitt (Apr 21, 2015)

One more thing I am religious about doing test runs on it all the time I also put a load on it and let it run a bit and then remove the load then turn off the fuel valve as I mentioned above and let it run dry .


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

"Sometimes" you can LIGHTLY tap the carb with a small hammer and it will knock the needle loose. Still should remove and clean to be safe there isn't a fuel leak later on.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Dirk Pitt said:


> Thanks for all the great info I do appreciate it , As far as the E 10 I have no idea what any of that stuff means. I have seen lots of references to it I just don't get what all that means. I go down to the gas station and I buy premium I do use that. When I have used it in the past I always turn off the gas fuel valve and let it burn off all the fuel in the carburetor that way there's none of these issues so it's completely dry I do not store it with any fuel in it carburetor I mean. The fuel I do have in it in the gas tank I treat with STABIL.
> I will follow the advice and just order another carburetor and start from there
> Thanks again.


E-10 is fuel that is mandated by government, thanks to Obama. Unleaded gasoline is diluted with ethanol, a type of alcohol, by 10%, this was supposed to "stretch " our fuel reserves.
Ethanol is corrosive to most metals, and will dissolve plastic fuel lines used in small engines.
Even the premium pump gas you are using is 10% ethanol.
I would strongly suggest you find a source for non ethanol, most marinas have it, and many gas stations as well.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Dirk Pitt said:


> Thanks for all the great info I do appreciate it , As far as the E 10 I have no idea what any of that stuff means. I have seen lots of references to it I just don't get what all that means. I go down to the gas station and I buy premium I do use that. When I have used it in the past I always turn off the gas fuel valve and let it burn off all the fuel in the carburetor that way there's none of these issues so it's completely dry I do not store it with any fuel in it carburetor I mean. The fuel I do have in it in the gas tank I treat with STABIL.
> I will follow the advice and just order another carburetor and start from there
> Thanks again.


E10 is gasahol which contains 10% ethanol. Most states have the pumps labeled.

Here is a site with locations with "pure gasoline". https://www.pure-gas.org/.

If you can't find one near try a marina (boats don't like E10), or a small airport for 100LL.

By law they can't put ethanol in AV gas, and also must pump the tanks daily for moisture. In a good sealed metal can or steel drum AV gas will store for years. It does still contain tetraethyl lead, so don't take a bath in it.

Even if you do run the carb dry, old E10 in the tank can degrade and make the "snot" too. That's why an inline gas filter can save you from carb problems, also will keep out rust and dirt.

You might be lucky and just have a stuck float, or the needle is stuck, as Hawg said (sort of the same thing).

Post a picture of the carb setup if you can, and make/model of engine.

Good luck.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Addendum.

What RPD said about E10 being bad for rubber plastic parts is especially true for engines/fuel systems made, pre-E10.

For metals, aluminum and magnesium are especially prone to react with alcohols. Most carbs are made of these metals.

Also, E10 tends to absorb moisture from the air more than pure gasoline. When it gets to a certain point, the ethanol and water will separate from the rest of the gas as a separate liquid phase. And that will be LARGE relative volume, > 10%.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

My Champion 3100 inverter was surging. These carbs are evidently not easy to rebuild. A new one was $50.00 and now she run like da' scalded dawg.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I had 2 problems with my Generac 3600 W genset.
1. the low oil switch was bad and the replacement was probably from the same batch. Test it with an ohm meter, if it is open, short the wire to ground if it uses only one wire, which is what I usually see. and try to 
start.
2. I had the carb float stick in an up position, so no fuel to engine.

Good luck


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Chipper said:


> "Sometimes" you can LIGHTLY tap the carb with a small hammer and it will knock the needle loose. Still should remove and clean to be safe there isn't a fuel leak later on.


I have used that trick myself and it occasionally works.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

For small engine parts, like my mowers, tiller, generator, etc I have had great success with Jacks. I have always gotten the right parts at a decent price.
www.jackssmallengines.com

For my chainsaw, and associated timbering items, I use the site the pros do, Baileys.
www.baileysonline.com


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Once you get it cleaned up..follow the directions on using this stuff. Its especially designed to fight the effects of ethanol in the fuel. Works geat.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/brands/rxp-1242


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## Dirk Pitt (Apr 21, 2015)

Small world, I have purchased lawnmower parts from Jacks!


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I had 2 problems with my Generac 3600 W genset.
> 1. the low oil switch was bad and the replacement was probably from the same batch. Test it with an ohm meter, if it is open, short the wire to ground if it uses only one wire, which is what I usually see. and try to
> start.
> 2. I had the carb float stick in an up position, so no fuel to engine.
> ...


Not to bust any bubbles but from all my old generator knowing pals say Generaic are junk. lol. Onan is best for RVs and Honda for toting around. There ya go. Fix it up and sell it. lol.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

dwight55 said:


> Honestly, . . . I would order a new carb, . . . pitch the old one.


If all else failed, I would do the same. But "cleaning" would be my first chore.

As a former Harley mechanic I can assure you that a carburetor is essentially two gizmos. The "top" part is akin to the float in your home toilet, and the bottom is akin to a spray bottle of perfume.

The three or four internal pieces are usually contained in an aluminum tube. This is why those few scant pieces and tube can cost you 1,200 bucks for a name brand carburetor with a fancy decal.

(Before you laugh, Donnie "Honda" Fruth and I worked for two days getting an S&S carburetor to perform when about the only moving part was the manual flip-down choke).

My advice, get a big white beach towel. I'm not kidding.

_Over a clean floor_, take the carburetor apart, placing the first part on the furthest piece of the towel. Count all the pieces, and do what I did, photograph the disassembled components.

Squeaky clean. Look up the "inch-pounds" for any fastener and do not think you know better. Clean or replace the air-filter, just a touck of oil to trap dirt and lint.

Here's my personal opinion: Since you were a very good boy and saved every single one of the screws, washers, lock washers, gaskets and nuts, put them in a plastic bag--secure the knot tightly so you do not lose anything--and head off to NAPA or any other automotive supplier, not a hardware store! Tell the guy you want all new stuff--the exact kind. He'll tell you that you don't need the stuff, but then he won't be with you at 3:00AM when your engine craps.

If you doubt me at all, please notice that every biker you see has a dirty mark on his right jeans knee, but his left knee is clean.

If he's honest, he'll respond, "_Yeah, got my jeans dirty kneeling on the shoulder of a road at zero-dark-thirty..._"

Been there, done that. And I didn't get all this gray hair from polka dancing!


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Thanks for those tips. Nearly makes me want to go buy a big Harley and hire a mechanic to follow me around to work on it. lol. I had a pal who bought an old cop bike in the 70s. Full dressed out Harley 74. The lucky guy had his oil leak where it landed directly on the chain. No oil chain oiling needed. How cool huh?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Had more and bigger problems with Onan in my RV (had to go to shop) and the big Onan at work 
(also had to have service people come to it). I had my Generac for close to 12 years with only 
the 2 problems I mentioned. So, I won't complain about them.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Ok...we had a little Onan in our class C MH. Had some glitches up front but we bought it used for a good price and he worked great. Smallest they normally make and louder than a mo fo modle 2800 I think. Cosumed half gallon per hour and could power several electric chairs at the same time. My only experience with Generaics is listening to folks gripe about em at various bbq contests.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

bigwheel said:


> No oil chain oiling needed. How cool huh?


I was lucky enough to get a two year stint at a Harley shop--and no, it wasn't under the Huber law!

None of my bikes leaked anything, and that includes the 1966 (I believe) Shovelhead, that literally denied this one-time skinny biker the ability to kick it over on the first or second try.

Now, yes, I replaced gaskets. Yes, I watched for drips. I even dared to buy two or three Sportsters, which I treasured.

But I still insist, if a Harley drips, it's because the owner doesn't know how to wrench his own bike.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sounded like an early variant of an automatic chain oiler to the non mechanical minded folks. The rule on vehicles in cop work is drive it till it pukes and go step and fetch another. Have the mechanic go pick up the broke one...and fix it before the new one pukes. We know the routine.


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## Dirk Pitt (Apr 21, 2015)

Well guys I thought I would post what I found and come up with what I did, first trying to buy a new carb, good luck jacks small engines doesn’t carry them and I gave up trying to get through to champion . So I took the existing one apart it really wasn’t bad in there at all, it had some slight varnish in there not much which I cleaned out and put it all back together that was fun and that’s a story for a different day .

But after getting it all put back together and putting in the ethanol fuel treatment I did get it to start and I found out what the issue was, at least with this one it likes to have the choke right in the middle not full choke or not in the run position right in the middle and if I did that it fired right up each time so thank you for all the good advice and I’ll keep my gasoline pure as I can, thank you


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I burn Ethanol fuel, not by choice either.

Two generators and snow blower have fuel shutoffs, the carbs are run dry each time they are run.

My tractor gets fresh stabilized fuel at the end of the season.

The generator tanks are drained every September and new treated gas added, they run for 15 Min and then carbs are run dry.

The removed gas is put into one of the Jeeps.

Third operational (primary home) generator burns propane.

I use Sta-Bill in my stored gas, and change the gas out on one year rotation system.


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## agmccall (Jan 26, 2017)

The main problem is the fact that it is a champion to begin with.

I bought one with electric start and not long after that went so I used the pull start and started almost every time. then all of a sudden without warning nothing, did not even sputter. This is the third one, I was able to return to tractor supply twice but this time said I had to get repaired, luckily I bought the extended warranty. so I took it to the closest certified repair center. The first thing they told me was to get rid of it and get another brand. They repaired it and said I had water in the gas, not sure how that could be but hey. when they went to start it it would not start. they finally got it started and when it starts it runs well. In the mean time I had purchased a craftsman from lowes with a briggs and stratton engine. That one works fantastic. 

Another thing is you really can not use aftermarket parts for champions you need to get champion replacement parts.

al


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

terryna said:


> never experienced it. but this is a very interesting discussion to follow


Stick around. These guys are smart.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

On doing a walk around on various aircraft fitted with P&W R-985,1830 and 2800 engines I checked for oil leaks.

If there were none there was trouble ahead, the cases always leaked.

Going from 70 degrees to 40 or 50 even down to -20 moved them.

Oil came from up to a 50 gallon tank behind the engine in the nacelle.

Had inter coolers to control the oil temp.

My BSA and Triumph always leaked oil no matter what I did.

Small engine carbs are easy to work on and clean out, you will loose gaskets on occasions from breakage.

Water in gas is a common problem, and can come right from the station pump.

Much caused by condensate when there is a high temp differential from tanker to ground tanks, or ground water rotting the tanks.

Not related but crazy, we had to put a biosidal agent into any aluminum tanks that took either Jet A or Jet B.

There were microbes that ate the aluminum tanks!!! The product was called Prist.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> Running E10 corn gas in it?
> 
> Carb is probably full of snot that stuff makes.
> 
> ...


In oder to couteract the effects of E-10 gas try this stuff. It works muracles. The theory is it interacts with the moisture in the ethanol and makes it burn completely. On cars it works to use it a time or two then at each oil change or so. That be after the current problem is fixed and to prevent future issues as related to ethanol. Now I aint here to say it helps old gas. Might take a shot of Stabil on that. My old Mr. Fixit pal says..you can either leave a gas container/tank plumb empty or plumb full..its leaving it partially full causes condensation. Not saying his right of course. Just tossing it out there. lol. 
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/.../dfc494044694/rxp-fuel-additive/00214/4708136


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Convert it to LPG.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Hey, water is not that bad!

We used water injectors for HP boost on takeoff.:vs_laugh:


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

terryna said:


> never experienced it. but this is a very interesting discussion to follow





Annie said:


> Stick around. These guys are smart.


 @Annie,

Do you not see the imbedded crap in this person's postings?

It is this..

https://juragan.club/assets/9/o.png

Ban this fool asap.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> @Annie,
> 
> Do you not see the imbedded crap in this person's postings?
> 
> ...


Working on it, Mr Slippy. This user registered more than 30 days ago, they are therefore protected from this tool--one touch ban.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Annie said:


> Working on it, Mr Slippy. This user registered more than 30 days ago, they are therefore protected from this tool--one touch ban.


10-4

I was more curious if you could see it or not. Didn't mean to have an impatient tone! :tango_face_smile:

Thanks Annie!


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Whats he triying to trick us to do?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> 10-4
> 
> I was more curious if you could see it or not. Didn't mean to have an impatient tone! :tango_face_smile:
> 
> Thanks Annie!


No, I couldn't see a thing. But if you say so, I trust your word on that.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Luckily I live in a state where I can still buy alcohol free gas.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

KUSA said:


> Convert it to LPG.


Diesel. Then you can run it off a home fuel oil tank (275-gal)


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