# I think the protestors are winning good or bad IDK



## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

Richmond police chief a prominent participant in protest against police violence
By Robert Rogers [email protected]

RICHMOND -- Amid the nationwide tumult over recent instances of police officers using deadly force against unarmed people, Bay Area cities like Berkeley and Oakland have been rived by impassioned protests that have at times turned violent.

But a different kind of protest popped up in Richmond on Tuesday, and at the vanguard of the gathering calling for a reduction in police violence in communities of color was an unlikely participant: Richmond's police chief.

"I've never seen anything like it, not in Richmond, not anywhere," said longtime resident Mary Square, who stood on the north side of Macdonald Avenue watching the protesters on the south side of the street. "All these police, and the police chief, holding signs calling for an end to police violence. ... I'm going to tell my kids."
Richmond Chief of Police Chris Magnus stands with demonstrators along Macdonald Ave. to protest the Michael Brown and Eric Garner deaths during a peaceful
Richmond Chief of Police Chris Magnus stands with demonstrators along Macdonald Ave. to protest the Michael Brown and Eric Garner deaths during a peaceful demonstration in Richmond, Calif., on Tuesday, Dec. 9, 2014. (Kristopher Skinner/Bay Area News Group) ( Kristopher Skinner )

About 100 protesters lined Macdonald Avenue at 41st Street by noon Tuesday, holding signs and listening to a stereo that boomed speeches by Martin Luther King Jr.

Police Chief Chris Magnus, who has drawn acclaim for his community-policing approach and helping drive down both crime and use of force by his officers in recent years, was front and center, facing the street while holding a white sign that said "#blacklivesmatter." The photo quickly went viral on social media, the image of the uniformed chief with the popular hashtag a stark contrast to the anti-police sentiment many associate with it.
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"I spoke with my command staff, and we agreed it would be nice to convey our commitment to peaceful protest and that black and brown lives do matter," Magnus said after the protest. "And to help bridge the gap that we understand sometimes exists between police and community around certain issues."

The protest was hastily organized by members of the RYSE Youth Center nearby. Members vowed to stay on the sidewalk with their signs and their "hands up," an ode to Michael Brown, the 18-year-old shot and killed by a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer earlier this year, for 4½ hours, the time Brown's body lay in the street after his death.

"It's important that Richmond be seen as part of this peace movement," said RYSE Executive Director Kimberly Aceves. "Because black and brown lives matter, and because this country and this world continue to act as if they don't."

The protest was also notable because of its relative calm and the presence of other leaders like Mayor Gayle McLaughlin and council members Jael Myrick, Jovanka Beckles and Tom Butt.

Deputy Chief Allwyn Brown, a few paces away, said the chief's participation sent a clear message.

"We get the conversation about use of force, we get it," Brown said. "This is an opportunity for all police departments, including ours, to look inward and examine our approaches and get better."

The protest even won over converts. When RYSE officials began spreading the word Monday using social media, Councilman Butt, who was elected mayor on Nov. 4, sent Aceves an email criticizing her decision to organize a protest.

"The situation you are protesting does not exist now in Richmond because we have all been proactive in making sure our police department is well-trained and sensitive," Butt wrote. "I would hope there would be some way to celebrate our successes rather than protesting other cities' failures."

Butt also warned against the cost of paying officers overtime to keep the peace and the potential of violence and property damage.

But when the protest went off without a hitch, Butt showed up all smiles, to the surprise of participants.

"Nothing really changed my mind, this is fine." Butt said. "Everybody has worked really hard to make Richmond a different place than Ferguson or New York City, and I think we need to show people, 'Look, be like us,' rather than trying to appear like we have the same problems everybody else doe









Richmond police chief a prominent participant in protest against police violence - ContraCostaTimes.com


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

If they remain peaceful they will fade out.

If they grow violent they will lose public support.

Hence they will FAIL.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Little by little, inch by inch, one person at a time then part of a whole culture, then part of a whole generation, then a larger part of the next.
More regulation, more demonization, more divisiveness, more good is evil and evil is good, more of "the truth don't matter" and we find our Great Republic where we are today.

It ain't gonna stop, boys and girls, 'til its over.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Councilmen Butt! Tee hee...


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

If we get an effort by police to reduce the number of deaths of people during arrests or while in custody, isn't that a good thing?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> If we get an effort by police to reduce the number of deaths of people during arrests or while in custody, isn't that a good thing?


As far as causes and protests go, these rank so high on the stupid meter that it should be embarrassing. They are protesting a lie. The amount of deaths by the police during arrests are minimal, how about we reduce the number of thugs who think they can rob, rape, assault, murder etc?

How about we protest every time a child is born out of wedlock? How about we protest every time a healthy young man of working age scams the system and gets long term SS Disability? How about we protest another generation of inner city or Appalachian people who refuse to work and decides to get on welfare, SNAP etc?

How about we protest every time the EPA shuts down a legitimate business for no logical reason? I could go on and on...


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Slippy said:


> How about we protest every time a child is born out of wedlock? How about we protest every time a healthy young man of working age scams the system and gets long term SS Disability? How about we protest another generation of inner city or Appalachian people who refuse to work and decides to get on welfare, SNAP etc?
> 
> How about we protest every time the EPA shuts down a legitimate business for no logical reason? I could go on and on...


Because we are productive parts of society with jobs and don't have time for this nonsense.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> As far as causes and protests go, these rank so high on the stupid meter that it should be embarrassing. They are protesting a lie. The amount of deaths by the police during arrests are minimal, how about we reduce the number of thugs who think they can rob, rape, assault, murder etc?
> 
> How about we protest every time a child is born out of wedlock? How about we protest every time a healthy young man of working age scams the system and gets long term SS Disability? How about we protest another generation of inner city or Appalachian people who refuse to work and decides to get on welfare, SNAP etc?
> 
> How about we protest every time the EPA shuts down a legitimate business for no logical reason? I could go on and on...


Actually, there are no stats on homicides by police, so you can't back up a claim they are "minimal".


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Ripon said:


> If they remain peaceful they will fade out.
> 
> If they grow violent they will lose public support.
> 
> Hence they will FAIL.


 No if they get violent enough the public will pay them off and they will get what they really came for other peoples cash. This is not round one it has happened over and over.
When will the working class take to the streets and burn the house down so they get so action? Never to busty trying to do the right thing


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> Actually, there are no stats on homicides by police, so you can't back up a claim they are "minimal".


Nor can you claim that they are an epidemic. A couple of dead thugs does not make a trend.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Nor can you claim that they are an epidemic. A couple of dead thugs does not make a trend.


I never made the claim they were an epidemic. I feel reducing the number, whatever it may be, is a good thing. I don't think it is up to the police to decide who is a "thug" and just off them. The police are supposed to make arrests and bring the suspect to court.

The Eric Garner situation certainly doesn't deserve to be categorized as a "thug". He was selling cigarettes and his "resisting" consisted of putting his hands in the air. The police could have arrested him peacefully if they had been willing to talk to the guy for another 60 seconds. Nobody should die for that and if there is a change that can be made to avoid a repeat I'm all for it. Toss in the other recent cases of a 12 year old playing with a toy (Tamir Rice) and a guy in NY who the police say was doing nothing wrong (Akai Gurley) and we've got too many people getting killed who do not deserve to be called "thugs".


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The 12 year old "playing with a toy" actually had a very realistic looking pistol in his waist band. Police responding to a "man with a gun" call told him to throw the gun down and put his hands up. Instead, he drew and pointed it at the officers. 

All these incidents seem to be occurring in big cities where people seem to disobey and possibly even try to provoke police.
Out here in the Heartland, in small town America, things are very, very different. Maybe it is the way we were raised, and by "we" I'm including all races.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The 12 year old "playing with a toy" actually had a very realistic looking pistol in his waist band. Police responding to a "man with a gun" call told him to throw the gun down and put his hands up. Instead, he drew and pointed it at the officers.
> 
> All these incidents seem to be occurring in big cities where people seem to disobey and possibly even try to provoke police.
> Out here in the Heartland, in small town America, things are very, very different. Maybe it is the way we were raised, and by "we" I'm including all races.


Re: the 12 year old, he's still a kid and if revised police procedures would have kept him alive, I am for those changes and he still doesn't deserve to be called a "thug". We had a thread here about how the cops screwed up that call as well.

I agree the incidents seem to be occurring in cities. As for provoking the police, I don't believe the video of Garner indicates anything of the sort, and Akai Gurley was a completely innocent guy gunned down by a cop inside an apartment building stairwell and the police are trying to pass it off as an "accidental discharge". Excuse me? Why was the gun even out of the holster? This incident is the most clear cut in my mind and you can't just pass this one off as a "thug". The guy did nothing except step into a stairwell where he had every right to be.

If the cops won't consider changing their procedures to avoid gunning down innocent people by "accident", who needs them?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Diver said:


> Re: the 12 year old, he's still a kid and if revised police procedures would have kept him alive, I am for those changes and he still doesn't deserve to be called a "thug". We had a thread here about how the cops screwed up that call as well.


In Jacksonville, Florida, where I commute to work 5 days a week, some 12, 13, and 14 year olds are already in drug gangs, carry guns, and use them. "He's still a kid" doesn't carry much weight in some sections of the city. Jacksonville is the Murder Capitol of Florida, and it is because of young black youths in gangs wantonly killing each other and innocent bystanders. They even carry them to school, several were caught in the last week.
I may live in the country, but I do not live an insulated life - as I said I work in the Murder Capitol, in a warehouse district in the ghetto. Where bodies are dumped and the cops are rarely seen after dark.
I am a realist.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Here are several stories just from tonight's news;

2 identified in high-speed chase in stolen car | News - Home

Sheriff candidates speak about gang issues | News - Home

Grand Park teen: 'I'm tired of seeing them die' | News - Home

This is only what made the top of the news on one day. It is repeated day, after day, after day.
And yet, the cops are supposed to be kind, patient, loving social workers?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

You are so right RPD.

I've harped on this for a while but Good has turned into Evil, and Evil has turned into Good. Generally speaking the LEO's are Good. The Thugs are Bad. But the complicit media has turned the Good (LEO) into the Bad and the Bad (Thugs) into the Good.

They have already turned the Rich (who employ people and pay most of the taxes) into the Bad. And the Bad (freebie taking scam artists) into the Good. They've faked a "War on Women" that doesn't exist and made it real. They've labeled anyone who speaks out as a racist. And it goes on and on...


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> Actually, there are no stats on homicides by police, so you can't back up a claim they are "minimal".


define what you mean by "homicide by police". if you are talking about the tamir rice case where the news are saying that the medical examiners office ruled the case a homicide, this is nothing but to incite more riots and protest. we knew it was homicide the minute the kid died. when ted bundy was executed, his death is a homicide. that is how the ME's rule this kinds of deaths. if a person died at the hands of another person it is called homicide. but not every homicide is "illegal", some of them are justified. the tamire rice case will probably be ruled as justifiable homicide just like the brown and garner case.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> define what you mean by "homicide by police". if you are talking about the tamir rice case where the news are saying that the medical examiners office ruled the case a homicide, this is nothing but to incite more riots and protest. we knew it was homicide the minute the kid died. when ted bundy was executed, his death is a homicide. that is how the ME's rule this kinds of deaths. if a person died at the hands of another person it is called homicide. but not every homicide is "illegal", some of them are justified. the tamire rice case will probably be ruled as justifiable homicide just like the brown and garner case.


The medical examiner is using the term homicide correctly. A homicide is when someone kills another. Homicides can either be justified or not justified. According to what I have read recently 461 police homicides were reported in a one year span, (I have forgotten whether this was 2012 or 2013) but this is from only 750 out of 17,000 police departments. No one collects the full stats. Virtually all homicides by police are with guns and ruled as justified. The Eric Garner case was an anomaly in that he was not shot, but it was a homicide, per the medical examiner. Due to the grand jury decision it would now be considered a justifiable homicide.

The Tamir Rice case is now a homicide per the Cleveland medical examiner. I would expect it to be ruled a justifiable homicide in the near future. In the other thread the criticism was of the driver putting the cop who fired in an untenable position resulting in the shooting occurring almost immediately when they arrived on the scene. Using better procedures by the driver might have avoided this kid being shot. Since he had committed no crime that would have been an obviously better outcome. Calling him a thug is unwarranted, regardless of what is going on in Jacksonville, a mere 1000 miles away. There has been nothing in the news to suggest this kid was committing any crime. This is not Michael Brown.

In the Akai Gurley case, the change in procedure is simple. Keep your gun in the holster where it belongs. If that procedure had been followed then Akai Gurley, a completely innocent man, committing no crime, in a place he had every right to be, would be alive today. I haven't seen news on whether the medical examiner has ruled on this one, but I expect it to be ruled a homicide. Whether this one will be ruled justifiable remains to be seen.

There has been a lot of effort in recent years to bring down the number of police killed in the line of duty. The number of cops killed in shootouts is less than 50 a year. Yet partial stats show 461 killed by police in a year. I am suggesting it is time for cops to start worrying about what they can do to avoid killing suspects or innocent bystanders. I am convinced that changes in procedures can reduce these deaths and that these changes would be healthy. I am strongly in favor of body cameras so every shooting can be studied.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

While the world splits hairs on the turbulence of check suckers and street thugs, we are losing species weekly and now there have been no live killer whales born in 3 years. A magnificent species destroyed and us well deservedly next. ( ENENews.com ? Energy News )
I'm sorry.....what were retarded garbage doing that anyone was supposed to care about? Oh yes, FREE BLUNT WRAPS MATTER! So does free insurance, married guys and transvestite children! 
All I know is, that stock market betta go bling bling bak up! Or another mutha...... going down yo! (Heh sorry couldn't resist)


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Maybe everyone should have body cameras, then nothing would be off the record and everyones life would be a public domain. The end of privacy. jmho.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Diver said:


> The medical examiner is using the term homicide correctly. A homicide is when someone kills another. Homicides can either be justified or not justified. According to what I have read recently 461 police homicides were reported in a one year span, (I have forgotten whether this was 2012 or 2013) but this is from only 750 out of 17,000 police departments. No one collects the full stats. Virtually all homicides by police are with guns and ruled as justified. The Eric Garner case was an anomaly in that he was not shot, but it was a homicide, per the medical examiner. Due to the grand jury decision it would now be considered a justifiable homicide.
> 
> The Tamir Rice case is now a homicide per the Cleveland medical examiner. I would expect it to be ruled a justifiable homicide in the near future. In the other thread the criticism was of the driver putting the cop who fired in an untenable position resulting in the shooting occurring almost immediately when they arrived on the scene. Using better procedures by the driver might have avoided this kid being shot. Since he had committed no crime that would have been an obviously better outcome. Calling him a thug is unwarranted, regardless of what is going on in Jacksonville, a mere 1000 miles away. There has been nothing in the news to suggest this kid was committing any crime. This is not Michael Brown.
> 
> ...


 What about you get pulled over for speeding, cop wants to give you a break, can't cause its on tape and he'll loose his job. just sayin.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

One last post on this...

We all know how liberal the media is and we all agree that the FBI stats don't specifically detail those who die at the hands of LE. But I believe that the liberal media reports on every event that happens and if the recent cases are indicative of most of the total, then most are probably justifiable homicides. And yes, Thug is probably a tame word that should be used on these fools.

As far as requiring body cameras on all LEO, I think that is just another example of trading in Liberty for a false security.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Slippy said:


> As far as causes and protests go, these rank so high on the stupid meter that it should be embarrassing. They are protesting a lie. The amount of deaths by the police during arrests are minimal, how about we reduce the number of thugs who think they can rob, rape, assault, murder etc?
> 
> How about we protest every time a child is born out of wedlock? How about we protest every time a healthy young man of working age scams the system and gets long term SS Disability? How about we protest another generation of inner city or Appalachian people who refuse to work and decides to get on welfare, SNAP etc?
> 
> How about we protest every time the EPA shuts down a legitimate business for no logical reason? I could go on and on...


Amen Slippy!


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

1skrewsloose said:


> What about you get pulled over for speeding, cop wants to give you a break, can't cause its on tape and he'll loose his job. just sayin.


He also can't try to escalate the situation as has happened to me many times. Just saying.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> He also can't try to escalate the situation as has happened to me many times. Just saying.


it sounds like the police always give you a hard time, is it the NJ State Police?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> it sounds like the police always give you a hard time, is it the NJ State Police?


Local throughout NJ as well as state. They are all pretty bad and it isn't just me. Think Shaneen Allen, Brian Aitken, etc.

NYC is worse.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> Local throughout NJ as well as state. They are all pretty bad and it isn't just me. Think Shaneen Allen, Brian Aitken, etc.
> 
> NYC is worse.


Diver,

Not trying to blow your cover or get all up in yo bidness but please bear with me as I attempt to help your situation by asking a few querstions;

1.)Do you have any prior convictions?
2.)When pulled over by an officer do you say; Damn bitch, why you always [email protected]$%ng with me..
3.)Are there usually empty beer cans in the passenger floor board and/or open packets of C4 in plain sight?
4.)Have you adequately cleaned all the blood stains off the back seat and covered said back seat with some nice quilts? (See Pulp Fiction "the Wolf")
5.)Do you take the last hit on the roach before addressing the officer or just leave it burning in the ashtray or pipe?
6.)Are there grunts and slight movements coming from the rolled up carpet in the back of your van?


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

First off, allow me to say from what information I have seen or heard. Micheal Brown was a two bit thug who felt he could bully his way through life, and forced officer Wilson to shoot him, and I also believe that race had no bearing in his (officer Wilson) actions, and he would have been forced to the same actions no matter the color of the attacker.
Now, with that being said, on this very site has been post after post where the police did IMO, over step their authority sometimes with the result being the death of someone who most everyone who has seen the videos or read the story, would agree should not have died.
I do not agree that Micheal Brown should be the Mylar in this, but if all these protest results in the police being more careful as to their actions, and become aware they will be held accountable for them, and lastly remember THEY ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW, then perhaps in a twisted kind of way there will be some good come from the protests. 
This in no way excuses the unlawfulness that occurs by some during the protests, those should be found and punished by the law.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Diver,
> 
> Not trying to blow your cover or get all up in yo bidness but please bear with me as I attempt to help your situation by asking a few querstions;
> 
> ...


1) No prior arrests or convictions. Last traffic ticket was more than a decade ago.
2) No. I always let the cop speak first and 9 times out of 10 the first words he will say he will scream and I will simply hand him my documents and not say a word.
3) No. Are you suggesting that? 
4) No bloodstains in the car.
5) I might have inhaled in 1969. I am now a very sober senior citizen. 
6) Sorry, no van.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Moonshinedave said:


> First off, allow me to say from what information I have seen or heard. Micheal Brown was a two bit thug who felt he could bully his way through life, and forced officer Wilson to shoot him, and I also believe that race had no bearing in his (officer Wilson) actions, and he would have been forced to the same actions no matter the color of the attacker.
> Now, with that being said, on this very site has been post after post where the police did IMO, over step their authority sometimes with the result being the death of someone who most everyone who has seen the videos or read the story, would agree should not have died.
> I do not agree that Micheal Brown should be the Mylar in this, but if all these protest results in the police being more careful as to their actions, and become aware they will be held accountable for them, and lastly remember THEY ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW, then perhaps in a twisted kind of way there will be some good come from the protests.
> This in no way excuses the unlawfulness that occurs by some during the protests, those should be found and punished by the law.


I agree that Michael Brown was a poor case for launching this issue. Eric Garner is better, but not perfect. The cop who shot Akai Gurley should at least lose his job. That one remains to be seen how it plays out.

Overall there should be an effort to reduce the number of deaths or injuries at the hands of the police and to remove unfit police from the ranks. Neither of those is underway at present.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Diver said:


> 2) No. I always let the cop speak first and 9 times out of 10 the first words he will say he will scream and I will simply hand him my documents and not say a word.


Seriously? I have never had a cop scream at me. Never gave them a reason to though. Must be a jersey thing for cops to be rude for no reason.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> Seriously? I have never had a cop scream at me. Never gave them a reason to though. Must be a jersey thing for cops to be rude for no reason.


Me neither. Although I rarely get pulled over, I have found that when you treat the officer like a fellow human being, they will reciprocate in kind.
But it may be a jersey/nyc thing. Everybody seems to be rude up there. At least by Southern standards.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> 1) No prior arrests or convictions. Last traffic ticket was more than a decade ago.
> 2) No. I always let the cop speak first and 9 times out of 10 the first words he will say he will scream and I will simply hand him my documents and not say a word.
> 3) No. Are you suggesting that?
> 4) No bloodstains in the car.
> ...


AH Ha! #6...No van...BUT... you did not deny that there are grunts and movements coming from the rolled up carpet? Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, I submit to you that Diver...

Just crackin' on you a bit.  It sounds like NJ may be the problem. Stay safe.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> Seriously? I have never had a cop scream at me. Never gave them a reason to though. Must be a jersey thing for cops to be rude for no reason.


Seriously. The practice is known as inciters. The objective is too piss you off so you do something stupid giving an excuse to beat you and arrest you.

It used to be pretty consistent when I was younger. It still happens to me occasionally. It does not raise my opinion of cops generally.


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