# Looting, that’s what I’m thinking about.



## Linedog (Jun 29, 2015)

SHTF, grid down, etc, etc. All real things that could happen but as of late, I’m seeing more and more just plan stealing. I live in a small town and there’s been a huge up tic in brazen shoplifters. They know employees have been instructed not to intervene, getting robbed, just had over the cash and wave bye. My gut tells me once the looting starts, it will catch like a California wildfire. 
So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home? I’m unsure of what I’ll do, first priority of course is to keep my family safe, but then what, gather up like minded individuals and go on “patrol”? What are your thoughts?


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

Linedog said:


> SHTF, grid down, etc, etc. All real things that could happen but as of late, I’m seeing more and more just plan stealing. I live in a small town and there’s been a huge up tic in brazen shoplifters. They know employees have been instructed not to intervene, getting robbed, just had over the cash and wave bye. My gut tells me once the looting starts, it will catch like a California wildfire.
> So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home? I’m unsure of what I’ll do, first priority of course is to keep my family safe, but then what, gather up like minded individuals and go on “patrol”? What are your thoughts?


First and foremost family, as the "protector" of my family, should something happen to me, they would be left vunerable....so it is to each his own.....but if in a group scenario where there is like minded people, this might change....but still family first

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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Let's put it this way... If you go looking for trouble, you'll find it.
You might feel like it's wrong to watch people rampantly stealing from shops during a riot, but doing anything about it will only draw their attention to you, and then you'll be in for a world of problems.
If they're hitting a shop, leave them alone.
If they approach your home, unleash hell.


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

There aren't too many shops in my town that would I would consider risking my life to defend, Maybe the Ace Hardware, Maybe


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

People sitting by and not doing a thing is how we got to this point. Stop hiding and stand up like a man. There is a certain part of the population that is causing us all undo harm. It needs to stop.. You can only turn the blind eye for so long before they are pounding on your door.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I carry a gun to protect myself and my wife.
I am not a cop. I do not carry to protect others. They should carry, too. My wife does and she’s 74.

Same goes for looting. I am not going into town as a vigilante to protect the Dollar General.
Suppose there’s a gun battle. You shoot someone. You do realize that even IF you are cleared of criminal wrongdoing, you will get sued by the victim or his/her family, right? Do you want to lose everything you have and will ever earn, for the Dollar General?

Suppose you get shot your self. Do you have excellent insurance to cover the lengthy hospital stay and rehabilitation? Can you afford all the co-pays and out of pocket costs?

Sorry, I’m not going to ruin my life for Dollar General or Ace Hardware or the IGA.
I’m staying right here on the farm.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

If there's looting going on down at Sneaky Pete's We-Sell-It Emporium, I doubt I'll be there to begin with. If things are so bad looting is rampant, I'll beat home..... protecting what's mine. Pete won't be out in front of my house, so I won't be out in front of his store either. Pete doesn't owe me anything, and I don't owe Pete anything. Pete needs to protect his, and I need to protect mine.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

All of you have a good argument to support your position. Doing nothing means civilization has come to and end. In a real SHTF situation, my family comes first. I won't go looking for trouble, but if it comes to me, it will end there, one way or another.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Protecting me and mine is NOT 'doing nothing'. It _prioritizing_.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

One of the reasons we (husband and I) prepare is so we don't have to go out if the worst comes to pass. But I'd defend my church if I had the opportunity.


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## Pobilly Duke (May 9, 2020)

Linedog said:


> SHTF, grid down, etc, etc. All real things that could happen but as of late, I’m seeing more and more just plan stealing. I live in a small town and there’s been a huge up tic in brazen shoplifters. They know employees have been instructed not to intervene, getting robbed, just had over the cash and wave bye. My gut tells me once the looting starts, it will catch like a California wildfire.
> So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home? I’m unsure of what I’ll do, first priority of course is to keep my family safe, but then what, gather up like minded individuals and go on “patrol”? What are your thoughts?


Are we talking SHTF scenario or "as of late" (right now) scenario? Big difference.

As of late, that's on them.
SHTF, groups of us know what to do.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

*So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home?*

Having a wife at home I doubt whether I'll be throwing lead around for the thrill. Having said that, hiding under my bed doesn't sound much like a chance at victory, either.

I believe these are the sad choices for us "nice guys." Your garden variety hood can shoot up the entire place and not care one bit. For us it just means watching our shaky hand bounce around the front nock, hoping we don't tremor into a ricochet.

I have just told my wife repeatedly to walk carefully back to the car while I try to find a wide enough aisle for me to back out of. Now, I will admit, the mall where we buy our most stuff has really cracked down on perverts of all kinds--I'm surprised my picture hasn't shown up!

The alternative? Why, it's let the perverts have all the stores and cowards they wish while my pistol is still over my right kidney as I save my own butt. Even if a shot is required, in my state I still will be arrested--not as a thug, but that's pretty much the norm here for the police to gather every bit of information they can expunge from anyone at the scene. _And you lose your firearm_, after all, it's now evidence.

Stand by and watch, pick only some stores, hide at home, heck, hide from known thugs. There' isn't a solid strategy here. Isn't it what the thugs want, anyway?


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

I'm not willing to get physically involved to protect a local store from looting, but I will step up to protect the clerk or customer in the local store if they are physically threatened.

Looting really gets going around here I'm home with my family and probably wouldn't even know the local store was being looted. There is nothing we would need from a store for a while if looting got bad. 
I will become physically involved to protect my or a close neighbor's property.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I don't give a damn the about local stores that are 3 miles away from my home.
The probability of them being hit is minimal to less, the state police HQ location 
is only a few hundred yards from all of them including the local police station
which has the only gun store in town right next to it.
The town has 5K residents and is 25 miles from the big city, 
we have no traffic lights in town, just stop signs.
Plenty of towns and stores to loot before they get here, if they survive the trek.
I too believe family comes first, I will protect them at all costs.
I don't need to go out for anything if there is loss of law and order, good for 5 years.


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

I'm so far off grid I might not know till after the city is razed to the ground but good luck only 8200 in the whole county here, well armed ranchers/farmers, any large city is 4 hours away and 1% of the population are veterans.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

A single person, a small group, either won't matter. It's going to take a huge group across the nation to stop this crap. Politicians have tied the hands of LEO's and the thugs may do as they wish. 

I watched a video last night put out by some residents in Venice Beach, CA. They burned down a woman's house because they didn't like her dog barking. The dog was killed in the fire. She lost her home but hopefully has the sense to build another home in another state. No arrests made, no questions asked by the authorities. 

In 2019 KOMO, a local Seattle station, tried to sound the alarm. Few if any would listen.


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

inceptor said:


> A single person, a small group, either won't matter. It's going to take a huge group across the nation to stop this crap. Politicians have tied the hands of LEO's and the thugs may do as they wish.
> 
> I watched a video last night put out by some residents in Venice Beach, CA. They burned down a woman's house because they didn't like her dog barking. The dog was killed in the fire. She lost her home but hopefully has the sense to build another home in another state. No arrests made, no questions asked by the authorities.
> 
> In 2019 KOMO, a local Seattle station, tried to sound the alarm. Few if any would listen.


I have seen it, wife is from there and we are actively trying to get her mom from there now, but we are afraid it's too late due to her age.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I will defend my home from rioters.

The grown ups see the whirlwind that is coming, and they are acting in their own defense, and interest. 

The eternal children of America, the Peter Pans, have made their beds; well then, I say let them sleep there.
And I will save myself, and my home, and the homes around me. That should keep me busy.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Weldman said:


> I have seen it, wife is from there and we are actively trying to get her mom from there now, but we are afraid it's too late due to her age.


That was a slog for me, because it’s pretty much brainless whining: both sides of that dilemma, residents and homeless alike, cannot see the forest for the trees. Seattle is reaping what it has sown, and so is America as a whole. 

No one will comprehend this summation of mine: but from personal experience, I know that what I have said in this post, will be treated with contempt. 

America is under a condemnation and a curse, from its own idiocy. I do not know a single wise man, not even one; but, here is wisdom, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Love thy neighbor as thyself is always the basis of a healthy society; and without that, America will die; and the entire nation is destined to become a hell hole. Just like Seattle is.

Wisdom is the principal thing and humility before God, will make Seattle wise. And it will spring back to life, and avoid the agonizing death of the faithless who hate God. There is the root, Seattle hates God, and He will let the city go it’s own way. That way leads to the grave.

My homily is finished.🦉


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> Love thy neighbor as thyself is always the basis of a healthy society; and without that, America will die; the entire nation is destined to become a hell hole.
> 
> Wisdom is the principal thing and humility before God, will make Seattle wise. And it will spring back to life, and avoid the agonizing death of the faithless who hate God. There is the root, Seattle hates God, and God will let the city die because of that.


Can't argue these points.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Read a story the other day.
All the American violence and protesting over the Israeli/Gaza Strip deal....
A Jewish family was coming out of a store (NYC I think) and a couple of cars filled with pro-Palestinian guys were throwing trash at them and shouting anti-Semitic slurs.

A guy with a gun got between the two parties and escorted the Jewish family across the street to wherever they were going. The thugs got the message and left the scene.

Yeah, I know we all don't want to go out of our way to look for trouble and taking care of your own is of prime importance.

I would sincerely hope though, if I ever was witness to a situation like this, I and others would have the balls and moral decency to do what I could to insure a family's safety.

I watch these videos of old people or women that can't protect themselves being beaten to a pulp and the only thing the bystanders do is make sure they get a video of it. I'd like to think even at my age and "unfitness", I would do more than just watch.

*All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.*
*Edmund Burke*


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

*Aren't we really discussing the "us and them" parameters of urban life?*

I used to just pack a very sharp knife daily, as I assumed this was a crucial part of participating in modern society. I would hazard a guess that the topics we discuss *now* weren't even part of defense and safety fifteen years ago. For example, at one time every knife in my collection was designed and used for "work" but not "defense."

For me, the problem with defensive tools (guns or knives) is that most of modern society does not see the need or value of "putting the bully on his back." After all, shouldn't a 'modern man' simply hail a cab and transport his innocent guests back home? 

Like it or not we are still members of our society. And yes, I know that "modern urban citizens" will insult us for our defensive interaction, but over time thank us for saving their bacon. And even if we save an innocent person, the responding police officer will still have to confiscate our knife. It's his job.


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## Luckyprincess (May 16, 2021)

In a real SHTF situation my husband and I plan on protecting ourselves and our dog. That includes protecting our supplies. Im not going to go vigilante for stores and shops but I get the point of what people are saying. By not taking a stand you are kind of complicit. However, family comes first for me.


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## Linedog (Jun 29, 2015)

We’re not talking a real SHTF situation here. I’m looking at a bunch of inner city thugs on a looting spree. If they want to raid the Nike store and get new sneakers and hoodies, I’m gonna be at home making dinner. If they decide to raid my local gun/ammo shop that’s a different story. That’s something I don’t want out in the hands of those that have no business having it. Prioritizing is key here, family first of course, then I’ll assess the danger of what’s happening. I’m not worried about a bunch of thugs raiding a dollar store for Raman noodles. I just don’t want weapons/ammo in those same hands. Sorry I’m rambling, on my third margarita.


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

As I read through some of these comments that judges the people who wants to protect their family first I have noticed 1 thing that stands out....and that is that the people posting these might not (I am not judging, thats why I say MIGHT NOT) fully comprehend wat a SHTF scenario might be like.

First of all its going to be ANARCHY, its not going to be 2 guys robbing/looting a store....its going to be RUTHLESS GANGS or dangerous,hungry people who would kill YOU just to go through your trouser pockets.

Secondly, there will be groups or gangs targeting HOUSES to rob and loot...do you really want to LEAVE YOUR FAMILY ALONE AT HOME, will you want to go and save some shop were the owner has locked it and left a day or two before- probably knowing what was coming? While you are out and about playing hero of the day, these gangs, marauders, groups comes to your home and kick down the door where you left you family.......all ALONE.....

Lastly... God chose a wife for you, you were blessed with children, He made you a family unit (I am not even mentioning extended family) do I really think he would punish me for protecting those he has blessed me with? NO! Yes he would want us to help someone but probably not expect you to to do it and your loved ones gets killed for that.

EVERYONE knows the possibility of SHTF is real, but thousands CHOOSE to be ignorant, must my family die, because I went out to save an ignorant person who ridiculed me as a prepper? 



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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

I will add to my post, when people start looting shops, and like OP said "it will quickly spread like wildfire" it quickly escalates to a SHTF scenario

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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

Linedog said:


> We’re not talking a real SHTF situation here. I’m looking at a bunch of inner city thugs on a looting spree. If they want to raid the Nike store and get new sneakers and hoodies, I’m gonna be at home making dinner. If they decide to raid my local gun/ammo shop that’s a different story. That’s something I don’t want out in the hands of those that have no business having it. Prioritizing is key here, family first of course, then I’ll assess the danger of what’s happening. I’m not worried about a bunch of thugs raiding a dollar store for Raman noodles. I just don’t want weapons/ammo in those same hands. Sorry I’m rambling, on my third margarita.


Lightweight


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## Daduate (May 13, 2021)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I carry a gun to protect myself and my wife.
> I am not a cop. I do not carry to protect others. They should carry, too. My wife does and she’s 74.
> 
> Same goes for looting. I am not going into town as a vigilante to protect the Dollar General.
> ...


I love this guy ^^^. Sound advice from years of wisdom. A reason Solomon said “ gray hair is a crown of glory”. Unfortunately the consequences you stated are all true . Our society has deteriorated so far these are all now considerations before ever trying to stand up for what’s right.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I carry a gun to protect myself and my wife.
> I am not a cop. I do not carry to protect others. They should carry, too. My wife does and she’s 74.
> 
> Same goes for looting. I am not going into town as a vigilante to protect the Dollar General.
> ...


I understand and I don't disagree. We're getting too old for that crap anyhow. Besides my wife would be pissed if I left her alone to go try to protect others.

The main issue that I have is this:

1) its all speculation. No one knows how and when it will start or how it will play out. 

2) The other side has the politicians covering their back. We do not.

3) The other side has some big backers from large corporations donating money to behind the scenes organization like allegedly by Media Matters. We have nothing or no one.

4) Unless a clear leader shows up, like I said earlier we are on our own. An unorganized group of everyday folks. Some with some training and others without. At some point someone will become a leader others will be willing to follow. Us old folks will stay where we are and do what we need to.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I have made it clear to my wife...if crap is going down - if she is with the kids..get to a restroom, back warehouse area, get out of the store, go to a back room - if there is a lock lock it.. hunker down and let the trouble pass you by
if trouble comes to you protect yourself robustly and with malice

I will help protect those around me..I am not going to go to the danger.. I am going to protect myself and defend my area... a bathroom, store isle, etc... I will try to get out of the area.. I will encourage those around me to flee..if we are in a area with item they can arm themselves with I will encourage that also, I am no longer being paid to put myself in harms way

as long as i am allowed a way out I will take it.. if I am cornerd or forced to fight.. I will kick scratch shot punch bite scream yell slap ....


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## Luckyprincess (May 16, 2021)

Ok so I guess there are different scenarios. If its just a riot and people looting I'd let the police or military handle that and Im going to stay home with my family and protect us and our place.
If its a real SHTF scenario (like collapse of society for some time) Im not going to fault people going to closed supermarkets and other places trying to get supplies to care for their families. Honestly I'd have to probably do that if it happened today as Im just getting started and would run out of food and water pretty fast.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Luckyprincess said:


> Ok so I guess there are different scenarios. If its just a riot and people looting I'd let the police or military handle that and Im going to stay home with my family and protect us and our place.
> If its a real SHTF scenario (like collapse of society for some time) Im not going to fault people going to closed supermarkets and other places trying to get supplies to care for their families. Honestly I'd have to probably do that if it happened today as Im just getting started and would run out of food and water pretty fast.


So it would be ok to loot a store owned by local merchant.. would it be ok to loot that merchants home?


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## Luckyprincess (May 16, 2021)

Maine-Marine said:


> So it would be ok to loot a store owned by local merchant.. would it be ok to loot that merchants home?


No, I dont thing ok is the word for it. But if it was a society wiping event like a nuclear war I dont think getting groceries out of a defunct supermarket (mind you I didnt say a person's home) is going to be the most egregious sin. If you had a family to feed and society stopped would you not try to feed them? Hopefully it never comes to that but in an apocalyptic event (im not talking about a tornado or other event that will eventually be dealt with) I dont know that I would forego my family's survival in that respect. But thats the point of prepping, so you don't have to scrounge like that. Thats why when people think I'm nuts for starting to get serious about prepping I just feel bad for them for not seeing the bigger picture. I dont want to be that desperate person trying to take care of my family. I want to be ready.


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## ErickthePutz (Jan 10, 2021)

It’s privileged and Racist to defend anyone or anything.


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## CapitalKane49p (Apr 7, 2020)

Hope it never comes to it but any imminent threat will be dealt with swiftly. No quarter will be given as I expect none in return. 

Godspeed


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Luckyprincess said:


> No, I dont thing ok is the word for it. But if it was a society wiping event like a nuclear war I dont think getting groceries out of a defunct supermarket (mind you I didnt say a person's home) is going to be the most egregious sin. If you had a family to feed and society stopped would you not try to feed them? Hopefully it never comes to that but in an apocalyptic event (im not talking about a tornado or other event that will eventually be dealt with) I dont know that I would forego my family's survival in that respect. But thats the point of prepping, so you don't have to scrounge like that. Thats why when people think I'm nuts for starting to get serious about prepping I just feel bad for them for not seeing the bigger picture. I dont want to be that desperate person trying to take care of my family. I want to be ready.


problem 1 - it is stealing

problem 2 - unless you are the first person to think of it and show up right after the awful event - you will be competing with people who might have no issue killing you for the basket of soup you are loading into your car

problem 3 - while you are out "getting" supplies where is your family

Problem 4 - it is just plain stupid and dangerous - and there is a chance you could end up dead or worse in jail


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## Luckyprincess (May 16, 2021)

Maine-Marine said:


> problem 1 - it is stealing
> 
> problem 2 - unless you are the first person to think of it and show up right after the awful event - you will be competing with people who might have no issue killing you for the basket of soup you are loading into your car
> 
> ...


Yes I agree to all. But its going to happen because people will not be ready. Which is why I am here as a new person trying to learn everything I can so I won't be one of those people risking getting shot, jailed, killed and more. I almost fear the throngs of unprepared people more than an actual apocalyptic event.

Actually it reminds me of what happened after Hurricane Sandy here in NJ. There were some towns where people were beating each other and even shooting each other at gas stations trying to get fuel. It was absolute anarchy and that was a an event nowhere near apocalyptic.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> problem 1 - it is stealing
> 
> problem 2 - unless you are the first person to think of it and show up right after the awful event - you will be competing with people who might have no issue killing you for the basket of soup you are loading into your car
> 
> ...


WAIT!

You mean to tell me that we should be preparing for just an event and not waiting until it happens?  Hmmmm.... I'm gonna have to think about this one.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

my advice.. skip looting.. stay at home and watch the fun being broadcasted live from the news helicopter while you eat some popcorn and prep a nice meal of beans and rice


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## Luckyprincess (May 16, 2021)

Maine-Marine said:


> my advice.. skip looting.. stay at home and watch the fun being broadcasted live from the news helicopter while you eat some popcorn and prep a nice meal of beans and rice


Lol this is what I'm working on.... Id like to move from the ranks of poor bastards to prepared folk as soon as I can!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Luckyprincess said:


> Lol this is what I'm working on.... Id like to move from the ranks of poor bastards to prepared folk as soon as I can!


rice and beans
spices
canned meat
canned veggies
be prepared to grow your own food


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> my advice.. skip looting.. stay at home and watch the fun being broadcasted live from the news helicopter while you eat some popcorn and prep a nice meal of beans and rice


I don't think anyone is advocating looting. Besides, we (preppers) shouldn't need to anyway. I can make the popcorn, but I don't care for beans and rice, so I'll be making lasagna and chili.


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## Luckyprincess (May 16, 2021)

Maine-Marine said:


> rice and beans
> spices
> canned meat
> canned veggies
> be prepared to grow your own food


Thank you. I just started composting and cleared out a garden in my yard so I can figure out how to grow stuff now before any events. I hate learning on the fly.


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## Linedog (Jun 29, 2015)

I started this thread 7 months ago, looks like it's getting more and more common. Here in my little town it's a daily occurrence, not gangs of looters running wild in the streets. Just a huge uptic in lowlife shoplifting, shoes, jackets, personal items etc.


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## RedSky (Sep 5, 2021)

Linedog said:


> SHTF, grid down, etc, etc. All real things that could happen but as of late, I’m seeing more and more just plan stealing. I live in a small town and there’s been a huge up tic in brazen shoplifters. They know employees have been instructed not to intervene, getting robbed, just had over the cash and wave bye. My gut tells me once the looting starts, it will catch like a California wildfire.
> So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home? I’m unsure of what I’ll do, first priority of course is to keep my family safe, but then what, gather up like minded individuals and go on “patrol”? What are your thoughts?


When that happens, everyone turns against you, especially the authorities. I lived through a situation where a formally quiet neighborhood in a large city (2 million) was encroached by drug gangs. Doors kicked in, people mugged, no safety. Cops would show up an hour later and scratch words on a pad, wouldn't even go in to check the house was clear. Neighborhood efforts to form a watch were suppressed by the authorities because we can't have vigilantes. Houses on three sides of me were hit. Mine wasn't. I won't go into why but it wasn't because I was passive. Got out of that city, though, and learned some valuable lessons.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm glad we live out in the country.
Folks around here were raised better than that.
This is the Bible Belt, after all.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

If it is within Rule of Law nobody should be doing anything but being in self-defense mode. Protect you and your neighbor. If his will burn so will yours. Neighbors should be talking to each other and coming up with plans.

If because of (pick a scenario) and it becomes Without Rule of Law and a scout reports an enemy at a distance, then I will meet the threat away from home, on ground that favors my attack. You do not let an enemy near your doorstep.

If I can safely do so, I or a team member will rummage thru a store whether it is a grocery store or a hardware store and collect things to top off consumable items.

Some people get too high and mighty on here or they do not really think tactically.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Linedog said:


> I started this thread 7 months ago, looks like it's getting more and more common. Here in my little town it's a daily occurrence, not gangs of looters running wild in the streets. Just a huge uptic in lowlife shoplifting, shoes, jackets, personal items etc.


There's always an uptick in theft during the holidays just about everywhere. It does seem to be getting disproportionately worse in some places. Anywhere that made shoplifting under $1K a release offense has seen a tremendous increase. (California)
See what happens in your area after the New Year, and reassess the potential threat.



MaterielGeneral said:


> If I can safely do so, I or a team member will rummage thru a store whether it is a grocery store or a hardware store and collect things to top off consumable items.
> 
> Some people get too high and mighty on here or they do not really think tactically.


I get the point. We all envision a "The Walking Dead" scenario where we scavenge an abandoned store for supplies, but reality is very different.
That property belongs to someone else. Period.
It should never be considered "safe" to steal another's property.
If you can justify it then, you could justify it now.
You're simply changing the game to one of risk mitigation and what your conscience will bear. Any way you slice it, it's still wrong. You're taking from the owner. You could literally be taking from their children's mouths. If you think that's a "tactical" decision, it's not. It's just greed.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> I get the point. We all envision a "The Walking Dead" scenario where we scavenge an abandoned store for supplies, but reality is very different.
> That property belongs to someone else. Period.
> It should never be considered "safe" to steal another's property.
> If you can justify it then, you could justify it now.
> You're simply changing the game to one of risk mitigation and what your conscience will bear. Any way you slice it, it's still wrong. You're taking from the owner. You could literally be taking from their children's mouths. If you think that's a "tactical" decision, it's not. It's just greed.


If it is WROL which would be a walking dead type situation, I would not care. At that point it's all about me and mine, my friends and my community if there is one. I dont invision hunting other people to take what they have, but I guess it will depend on how hungry my people are.


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## RedSky (Sep 5, 2021)

paraquack said:


> All of you have a good argument to support your position. Doing nothing means civilization has come to and end. In a real SHTF situation, my family comes first. I won't go looking for trouble, but if it comes to me, it will end there, one way or another.


We should "do something" in an orderly and preferably paceful fashion, while we can to stave off the collapse. When it all goes down, it's too late to save the world; it's save yourself and your own.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

While I have added a post here before, it appears that some of your considerations are with the owner of a store and not your remuneration. Obviously, if the owner of your store is a brother, a former military buddy, or a member of your church, I can see the need to intervene. Let's be honest, the "good guys" who try to help out their harmless buddies usually get wounded or put near death unless rescue individuals magically show up.

(Granted, I have seen arguments boil over between an owner and a wise-ass 'customer,' but I have never had to draw my personal firearm for any reason. Dumb luck or some really fantastic good luck, I do not know).

As you know, the State of Wisconsin has "rites and restrictions" for carrying loaded firearms for defense. I have copied a folded entry for my address, name, and "defensive objects." In my first consideration of being "the nice guy in the wrong place" the police kindly offered me to "go away" after I produced documentation. Now, most bikers will brag about their exchanges with the law, personally, I thought I was going to jail.

"Anger" is a bad thing with a gun. My wife went to the firearms class, and guess what, she still has a very aggressive side. After 25 years and she's still at it...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> ...but I guess it will depend on how hungry my people are.


Yep, there's the justification for evil behavior.
It's the same justification used by thieves today. Moving the line doesn't change the result. You're just pretending that laws make a difference now.
That kind of behavior will ensure a quick end to any group you lead. My condolences to them. A good leader who claims to be prepared will find other solutions that don't make the group a target.


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## ErickthePutz (Jan 10, 2021)

MaterielGeneral said:


> If it is WROL which would be a walking dead type situation, I would not care. At that point it's all about me and mine, my friends and my community if there is one. I dont invision hunting other people to take what they have, but I guess it will depend on how hungry my people are.


What makes you think you will be one of the living? What justifies your decision of who is a threat OFF your property and what gives you the right to kill them?


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## Koefe (Jul 20, 2021)

ErickthePutz said:


> What makes you think you will be one of the living? What justifies your decision of who is a threat OFF your property and what gives you the right to kill them?


back at it again i see. 

you seem like the type to sink your ship quite quickly when it all ends. 

when i hear things of value from you, i am grateful, and impressed.

this isn’t one of those moments


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Koefe said:


> back at it again i see.
> 
> you seem like the type to sink your ship quite quickly when it all ends.
> 
> ...


Chill out. He asked questions.
I'm curious about the answers as well.
Anyone who subscribes to the "I'm right because I'm starving" perspective should be prepared to deal with the morality of the situation.
Empty bellies are not sufficient justification.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Anyone who subscribes to the "I'm right because I'm starving" perspective should be prepared to deal with the morality of the situation.
> Empty bellies are not sufficient justification.


Moral or not, it's gonna happen. The decent guys you know who are not preppers will most likely (some, not all) start that situation. The food will run out quickly and it will begin. They can't/won't sit back and watch their families die. It will start at the grocery stores and expand from there.

Next on their list will be people they are sure that have plenty, then the old and infirm. That could go the other way depending on their level of desperation and the amount of confidence they have.

So moral or immoral, expect it.

Dr. Peter Pry: *Our way of life and entire civilization “depends upon electricity,” Pry said. “If our nation is without electricity for 1 year, up to 90 percent of our population could die. There’s no coming back from that.*” 

Dr Peter Vincent Pry is an expert on EMP's. That is part of his report to congress. It doesn't have to be an EMP, just hacking the electrical grid could do this. Causing some of the major transformers to fail will also do this. Much of our electrical grid is antiquated and were made it Europe. It could take months to years to get the grid back up again.

I'm not going to debate the cause because I only listed 2 possibilities. There could very well be other factors including a civil war that would totally disrupt what's left of our distribution system.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

ErickthePutz said:


> What makes you think you will be one of the living? What justifies your decision of who is a threat OFF your property and what gives you the right to kill them?


Your still thinking today/rule of law. My comments were meant for without rule of law.

One of the living? Why not, I am in decent health. I have 16 years of Army service. On the civilian side, I was on a swat team in corrections. I can perform under stress and make sound judgement calls. What justifies a threat? If you are pointing a gun at me, I am justified and have a right to kill you. If I choose to be a bad guy and want to steel your stuff and rape your women all I or my team have to do is kill you and anyone having the baseballs to pick up a gun/resist. 

It's a matter of choice. Do I want to have good morals or no morals at all?


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Anyone who subscribes to the "I'm right because I'm starving" perspective should be prepared to deal with the morality of the situation.
> Empty bellies are not sufficient justification.


If it is Without Rule of Law, there will be limited morals. Morals will be a luxury. If your grandchildren are starving are crying nonstop because of the hunger pains or are starting to turn into skeletons your morals are going to lack. What's the alternative? Put a bullet into their heads or someone that food?

We can keep going back and forth with high and mighty VS reality but its getting old. Some of you underestimate the "will to live".


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## Linedog (Jun 29, 2015)

The way I’m beginning to see it, is that those “prepared” to live off the land won’t do so until absolutely necessary. Those that already are, will continue to do so, at a heightened awareness. Those with food etc stored up will eventually run low/out and then their true morals will surface. Unfortunately by then grocery stores will be empty, and marshal law will be in effect, food handouts from the government will start to dwindle and groups will form. That’s when the real S will be hitting the fan, IMHO.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> If it is WROL which would be a walking dead type situation, I would not care. At that point it's all about me and mine, my friends and my community if there is one. I dont invision hunting other people to take what they have, but I guess it will depend on how hungry my people are.


If you do have to eat other people, please make sure they are democrats.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

KUSA said:


> If you do have to eat other people, please make sure they are democrats.


It's a historical fact that when people have been driven to starvation, they resort to cannibalism. 

It's odd but the movie Soylent Green was released in 1973, nearly 50 years ago. All of a sudden people you would not have thought seen this movie are now bringing it up. One fact I was reminded of was that the movie was set in 2022.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

inceptor said:


> It's a historical fact that when people have been driven to starvation, they resort to cannibalism.


Oh I know, and most democrats have very marbled meat.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> If it is Without Rule of Law, there will be limited morals. Morals will be a luxury. If your grandchildren are starving are crying nonstop because of the hunger pains or are starting to turn into skeletons your morals are going to lack. What's the alternative? Put a bullet into their heads or someone that food?
> 
> We can keep going back and forth with high and mighty VS reality but its getting old. Some of you underestimate the "will to live".


Wrong is wrong, laws or not.
You can call it whatever you like, but it's nothing more than justification for theft and murder.
If you can justify it then, you could justify it now. Pretending otherwise is just lying to yourself.
Have you even considered whether your "group" thinks you should do this?
Sounds more lik boasting, not reasoned thought. Just my opinion.
Ask your wife what she can live with you doing to feed your kids.
My wife and I had this hard discussion.
We faced the actual reality. She would not be able to live with herself, or with me, if this was the way to feed our kids. Her reason was simple. "It's wrong." The kids get everything we can give them, to the last morsel. She and I go without. Then we all gather together and slip away. I don't think you understand starvation. It's not a painful way to go. You're dramatizing it to justify bad choices.

We have a better place waiting for us anyways. We'll last as long as we can here and then start our next adventure.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I prep because I see bad times coming.

If a person is willing to loot they are willing to beat up a fellow looter. The last thing you want to do during bad times is get involved in chaos or be around large undisciplined unlawful crowds.

No Sir!!!! I will set home, watch the news, eat some popcorn and make sure my guns are cleaned and oiled


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> It's a historical fact that when people have been driven to starvation, they resort to cannibalism.
> 
> It's odd but the movie Soylent Green was released in 1973, nearly 50 years ago. All of a sudden people you would not have thought seen this movie are now bringing it up. One fact I was reminded of was that the movie was set in 2022.


It is also historical fact that some people starve instead of killing their neighbor. In fact people will starve instead of eating their pet

the fact SOME have resorted to cannibalism does not a rule create!!!!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Wrong is wrong, laws or not.


YEP 




Kauboy said:


> You can call it whatever you like, but it's nothing more than justification for theft and murder.
> 
> If you can justify it then, you could justify it now. Pretending otherwise is just lying to yourself.


YEP





Kauboy said:


> We have a better place waiting for us anyways. We'll last as long as we can here and then start our next adventure.


double yep


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> It is also historical fact that some people starve instead of killing their neighbor. In fact people will starve instead of eating their pet
> 
> the fact SOME have resorted to cannibalism does not a rule create!!!!


I personally find it reprehensible. And I didn't say it was a rule. I said it happens and it seems to happen more often than not. Russia comes to mind as does the Donner party.


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

Reading this thread....thinking to myself....it sooooo easy to talk when you have not been in that situation....saying "I will do this" and "I will do that"....

I think most will only really comprehend of what they are capable of when the will to live kicks in ...you might be surprise to find a darkness in you that you never thought existed...

I like to THINK the same as most here, BUT when I think about my kids not eating....well then....I will make a plan...

To those who feel they will just wane and let their families starve to death...here is something to think about....long and hard....


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)




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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

KUSA said:


>




Thats fake right? Please tell me that is fake.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Thats fake right? Please tell me that is fake.











You must list illegal activity and stolen property as income on your taxes, IRS says


If you’re planning to work on the street corner, run that illegal gambling ring from your basement, or make that quick transaction in the park… Don’t expect to keep that cash unde…




www.fox46.com









__





IRS: Stolen property, bribes required to be reported as income on taxes






www.msn.com


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Karoobow said:


> Reading this thread....thinking to myself....it sooooo easy to talk when you have not been in that situation....saying "I will do this" and "I will do that"....
> 
> I think most will only really comprehend of what they are capable of when the will to live kicks in ...you might be surprise to find a darkness in you that you never thought existed...
> 
> ...


Did you really just try to use The Holy Bible to justify theft and murder for the sake of filling bellies?
Enjoy whatever dangerous and false bravado you choose, but DAMNED is the man who distorts the word of God.
That passage is a demand that the family of a widow must take care of her.
I dare say the act you just committed may be even worse than the murder you're justifying with it. Truly pathetic.


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> Did you really just try to use The Holy Bible to justify theft and murder for the sake of filling bellies?
> Enjoy whatever dangerous and false bravado you choose, but DAMNED is the man who distorts the word of God.
> That passage is a demand that the family of a widow must take care of her.
> I dare say the act you just committed may be even worse than the murder you're justifying with it. Truly pathetic.


Wow and you will go unpunished? You played judge, and executioner with what you said....especially with your last sentence.....who are YOU to decide what I am guilty of? Who are you to judge and decide that, what was posted was worse than murder and I must be condemned for it..,

Thats the thing with believers....the more they think they know, the more they think they are superior and better to anyone else...that self-righteousness


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## ErickthePutz (Jan 10, 2021)

SO glad all these posts about planning to shoot, murder, steal are permanently on the net…

Its amazing that so many people who claim to be ex .MIL, LE, etc just blithely post things that violate laws and PERSEC. You DO know that keywords get attention, right?


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

ErickthePutz said:


> SO glad all these posts about planning to shoot, murder, steal are permanently on the net…
> 
> Its amazing that so many people who claim to be ex .MIL, LE, etc just blithely post things that violate laws and PERSEC. You DO know that keywords get attention, right?


I bet you have marbled meat.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Linedog said:


> SHTF, grid down, etc, etc. All real things that could happen but as of late, I’m seeing more and more just plan stealing. I live in a small town and there’s been a huge up tic in brazen shoplifters. They know employees have been instructed not to intervene, getting robbed, just had over the cash and wave bye. My gut tells me once the looting starts, it will catch like a California wildfire.
> So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home? I’m unsure of what I’ll do, first priority of course is to keep my family safe, but then what, gather up like minded individuals and go on “patrol”? What are your thoughts?


Its covered in Eschatology 101. When the Son of Man returns it will be the same scenario as on Earth as when Noah was instructed to take the critters into the Ark. Lawlessness and murder were rampant. Somebody shoulda stayed awake in Sunday School.








As in the Days of Noah


Does our wicked generation have any precedent in biblical history?




answersingenesis.org


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Karoobow said:


> Wow and you will go unpunished? You played judge, and executioner with what you said....especially with your last sentence.....who are YOU to decide what I am guilty of? Who are you to judge and decide that, what was posted was worse than murder and I must be condemned for it..,
> 
> Thats the thing with believers....the more they think they know, the more they think they are superior and better to anyone else...that self-righteousness


The Word judges you. Not me. I'm just showing you truth so that the scales may fall from your eyes.
If you pretend that the Holy Bible supports your murdering of another to feed your family, then yes, I am superior to you... because of YOUR actions, not mine.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

WWJD
What would Jesus do.

As for me and our farm, we will try our utmost to uphold the teachings of Jesus Christ.
We will grow our own food, we will raise our own chickens, we will not starve.

And if it comes down to having to defend our lives against those who would try to kill us, I reference Luke 22:36-38


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## antmya (Jan 1, 2022)

Linedog said:


> SHTF, grid down, etc, etc. All real things that could happen but as of late, I’m seeing more and more just plan stealing. I live in a small town and there’s been a huge up tic in brazen shoplifters. They know employees have been instructed not to intervene, getting robbed, just had over the cash and wave bye. My gut tells me once the looting starts, it will catch like a California wildfire.
> So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home? I’m unsure of what I’ll do, first priority of course is to keep my family safe, but then what, gather up like minded individuals and go on “patrol”? What are your thoughts?


Yes there seems to be an upheaval of crime, mostly in democratic cities, all of a sudden. I would first and foremost protect my family at all cost.


Linedog said:


> SHTF, grid down, etc, etc. All real things that could happen but as of late, I’m seeing more and more just plan stealing. I live in a small town and there’s been a huge up tic in brazen shoplifters. They know employees have been instructed not to intervene, getting robbed, just had over the cash and wave bye. My gut tells me once the looting starts, it will catch like a California wildfire.
> So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home? I’m unsure of what I’ll do, first priority of course is to keep my family safe, but then what, gather up like minded individuals and go on “patrol”? What are your thoughts?


As of late there has been an upheaval of crime, mostly in democratic cities. Its apart of law enforcements job to protect property and yours to protect your family. What I have seen were groups of like minded people gather and protect these businesses, but again you would have to find a group of people that agree with you on doing that.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Karoobow said:


> I think most will only really comprehend of what they are capable of when the will to live kicks in ...you might be surprise to find a darkness in you that you never thought existed...


Here is the interesting thing.. you assume that going through bad times will make people make bad decisions or convert to the dark side.. yet we often see the opposite.. many many many Followers of Jesus (for 1,000's of years) have died instead of converting or walking away from their faith.. 

I will not be surprised at all to see people refuse to SIN as opposed to dying. Killing a person so another person can eat is a net loss...

the thing is you never know if you had just waited one more day if the miracle was going to happen, or it could be your time, or your kids time... the issue is the view of eternity. If you are rushing head long into your masters arms it is easy to let go.. if this life is all you have it will be hard to let go and many will murder, steal, loot, pillage....

not me!!!!! I will take care of my family as best i can... I will not rob, steal, or murder


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Linedog said:


> SHTF, grid down, etc, etc. All real things that could happen but as of late, I’m seeing more and more just plan stealing. I live in a small town and there’s been a huge up tic in brazen shoplifters. They know employees have been instructed not to intervene, getting robbed, just had over the cash and wave bye. My gut tells me once the looting starts, it will catch like a California wildfire.
> So what are you gonna do? Stand by and watch, help protect certain stores, hide at home? I’m unsure of what I’ll do, first priority of course is to keep my family safe, but then what, gather up like minded individuals and go on “patrol”? What are your thoughts?


Protect your own. Try to be inconspicuous as much as you can. That's what we'll do.
Barrcade as much as we can, not to make it easy for them to get in.....although, a really determined group of intruders will eventually get in.
It's a frightening thought. What more can we do?

Pray, and let God handle the situation.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

charito said:


> Protect your own. Try to be inconspicuous as much as you can. That's what we'll do.
> Barrcade as much as we can, not to make it easy for them to get in.....although, a really determined group of intruders will eventually get in.
> It's a frightening thought. What more can we do?
> 
> Pray, and let God handle the situation.


Not much. My plan is quite similar to yours.


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

Maine-Marine said:


> Here is the interesting thing.. you assume that going through bad times will make people make bad decisions or convert to the dark side.. yet we often see the opposite.. many many many Followers of Jesus (for 1,000's of years) have died instead of converting or walking away from their faith..
> 
> I will not be surprised at all to see people refuse to SIN as opposed to dying. Killing a person so another person can eat is a net loss...
> 
> ...


See here is the thing...all over scripture, God has destroyed nations and killed people....whether through fire, floods or angels.....or.... using nations to make war against nations.....

Now suddenly you get pastors and preachers and priests and deacons and the works thats preaching a gospel of love in such a way that people are now believing the Father that did all these things, have now suddenly changed and you do not have to repent and you can live as you wish because your sins will auatomatically be forgiven.....but no one teaches people, he his is the same Father....that was, is and will be....

So here is the thing....HE IS BRINGING PUNISHMENT AND DEATH to this world....200+million will be killed at armegeddon by HIS SON....

People seem to think everyone will skip this, all will be raptured, all will be saved....you are making a huge mistake...

It is the same with current events and looting...same with SHTF etc....the majority of people will not be saved automatically by some miracle....those that will live will be those who made provisions, whether weapons and food or the likes....

There are a couple of verses that teaches us to prepare even one that unstructs you (Luke 22:36-38) to sell your cloak and buy a sword if you dont have one.

Now ponder this....why would such an instruction be given....if all you need to survive would be faith and a miracle??????

A couple of other verses teaches us to be brave in life, the Father does not like cowards...why not be a coward and pray your way out??

I am saying it again....a lot of people will be in for alot of nasty surprises because they did not understand the WORD and WORKS...the Isrealities are the only nation on earth that has been saved numerous times by miracles....then the only other individuals was Noah,Lot and a few other....that were RIGHTEOUS, and blameless....I dont think we have "blameless" (except very young children) people living today

Now I am not saying you wont be saved out of a situation, and I am not saying that there wont be a miracle in your life, but I am saying, if the Father affords you opportunities to prepare yourself....use it, because if you just sit back with an attitude that you dont have to do anything to survive...you will get a rude awakening....those opportunities you had to prepare...that was the Father helping you...

I am not saying that murder is good or right, I do not wish to kill another human being ever, but when refering to turning to the darkside or doing what needs to be done to feed my children i refer to stealing...YES I would steal so that they can eat....because the Father will judge me on my intention....and my intention was not theft to enrich myself, but to feed a hungry child....and to that I will answer to when judged one day.


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> The Word judges you. Not me. I'm just showing you truth so that the scales may fall from your eyes.
> If you pretend that the Holy Bible supports your murdering of another to feed your family, then yes, I am superior to you... because of YOUR actions, not mine.


Wow and now you are SUPERIOR too....this just keeps getting better....! Anything else you feel like adding??


Vanity......Satans favourite....

Please continue


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Karoobow said:


> Wow and now you are SUPERIOR too....this just keeps getting better....! Anything else you feel like adding??
> 
> 
> Vanity......Satans favourite....
> ...


As stated, my superiority comes from your failures, not my actions.
If you think it's justified to steal and murder for your benefit, and use the holy scriptures in your justification, that pretty much drops you to the lowest of the low, and all others can look down on you.
Your best option is to repent, admit fault in these ways, and become whole again.
I've done nothing that would cause me to be better than you. It's just that you've fallen so far...
Give up the blasphemy and be redeemed.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Karoobow said:


> I am not saying that murder is good or right, I do not wish to kill another human being ever, but when refering to turning to the darkside or doing what needs to be done to feed my children i refer to stealing...YES I would steal so that they can eat....because the Father will judge me on my intention....and my intention was not theft to enrich myself, but to feed a hungry child....and to that I will answer to when judged one day.


Exodus 20:15
"You shall not steal."
There's no exception provided, nor any differing interpretation that can be derived.
If the owner catches you stealing, will you kill them or allow yourself to be harmed? You're no good to you family if you can't return to them.
It's almost like the commandment has more wisdom behind it than the simple words would suggest.
You will indeed answer to it, but the answer will be empty. There is no justification for defying a commandment.
I recommend you think on this and set your ego aside. If feeding your children requires violating a direct commandment, I would remind you that your children are not yours, but God's. He is ultimately responsible for when they die. You are simply called to be a good steward of his children, raising them right and keeping them safe, within God's law.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

This argument has been had thousands of times over many years. Right now we have the luxury of time to speculate on these types of issues.

The truth is that once the SHTF and there is a world WROL then all bets are off. You never truly know how you will react to any situation until you actually face it. And it will be different than you could have ever imagined.

Last night I watched again an interview by Mark Levin with Dr. Peter Pry. If we loose electricity in the country for whatever reason (a CME, an EMP or even just hacking the grid) 90% of the population will be toast within a year. 90%. Replacement parts just aren't there or available to 90% of the grid.I can't even imagine what that will look like.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Odd. I just got this recommended after the last post. This is worth watching. Some have been there/done that.


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## ErickthePutz (Jan 10, 2021)

God ain’t going to do anything for you.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I vote for relaxing and quit watching TV or listening to the talking heads on AM radio so much. The burden of being a cop has simply shifted from posing as a professionn to its roots as a civic duty. Not sure how many millions of well armed ex military cop folks are out there in the world but the criminals best tread lightly. Let us get ready to do our civic duty with common sense and empathy etc.


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> Exodus 20:15
> "You shall not steal."
> There's no exception provided, nor any differing interpretation that can be derived.
> If the owner catches you stealing, will you kill them or allow yourself to be harmed? You're no good to you family if you can't return to them.
> ...


And the judgement continues.....

So without judging you....I need to ask this (dont know if I will get a honest or straight forward answer since you are so pure).....

My question is - DO YOU KEEP ALL THE COMMANDMENTS?? 

If you do, then you may judge me, (although you already judged me before I even broke that commandment)...

But let me continue....so if you are certain that you are keeping all the commandments....tell me....DO YOU DO SUNDAY WORSHIP? ARE YOU KEEPING THE SABBATH HOLY ON A SUNDAY?

(Edit: was going to wait for an answer but decided to finnish)

If you are like the millions/billions out there that keeps the Sabbath on a Sunday, then you are breaking a commandment, because the Sabbath should be kept on a Saturday....if you break one commandment, you are NOT keeping the commandments...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Karoobow said:


> And the judgement continues.....
> 
> So without judging you....I need to ask this (dont know if I will get a honest or straight forward answer since you are so pure).....
> 
> ...


  
You think that another's failure to adhere to the commandments justifies your own open admission that you intend to break them AND use scripture to justify it?
Oh my... truly a failure of basic logic.

As to your question about the Sabbath, I am not Jewish, nor a descendant of Israel. The Sabbath was clearly stated as a commandment for the Jewish nation. Go reread Exodus.
Since I am a Christian gentile, I look to Paul. Paul wrote to the gentiles to clarify how one could consider the Sabbath. Each man can choose to keep one day above all others, and another can treat all days alike. Each can be convicted in his own mind.
As to the Sabbath specifically, Paul wrote to the Colossians:
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath."
So there's that...

Most people grossly misunderstand the "do not judge, lest ye be judged" statement. You're one of those people.
God is the only righteous judge. He is capable of determining final judgement. Judgement is the deciding of a person's eternal fate, and it is reserved solely for The Most High.
This is what we are called to not do. I would never claim to condemn you to hell, as that would be passing judgement.
However, *DISCERNMENT* is taught throughout the entire Bible.
When your brother is faltering, go to him alone to address it. If he will not listen, then go to him with a witness. Then go to him with religious leaders.
Jesus instructed his disciples to go and teach, and if any town would not accept them, they should kick the dust from their sandals as they left.
Jesus sought out those who were living in sin, and sent his disciples to do the same, so that they could be shown the way. "The well do not need a physician, but the sick."
All of these examples, and so many more, REQUIRE discernment; identifying where another has fallen short, and guiding them back to the path.
That is what I am doing here. You are misunderstanding, or misusing, the scriptures to justify violating what God has commanded. This is my attempt to reveal this to you, and hopefully steer you away from this path.
“Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. How narrow is the gate and difficult the way that leads to life, and there are few who find it!"

If you still think you can justify stealing, and scripture supports you, all that is left for me to do is kick the dust from my sandals, and leave you be.


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> You think that another's failure to adhere to the commandments justifies your own open admission that you intend to break them AND use scripture to justify it?
> Oh my... truly a failure of basic logic.
> 
> As to your question about the Sabbath, I am not Jewish, nor a descendant of Israel. The Sabbath was clearly stated as a commandment for the Jewish nation. Go reread Exodus.
> ...


So you can disobey one commandment and you still keeping them all?? The commandments are set in stone, doesnt matter what you believe (alot of believers out there dont recognise paul as he never was one of the original apostles and because of his difference in scriptures as what Jesus taught and what paul taught) but it if the Sabbath falls on a saturday, and the commandment is that a Sabbath should be kept HOLY on the seventh day....who gives anyone the right to change that when its a commandment?? 

The roman catholic church changed the first day of the week to a monday, and the last day to a sunday....

But in anycase when I read your last post I just realised again, you are so pure, selfrighteous, perfect, you must be the messiah...

Lets rather conclude this


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Karoobow said:


> So you can disobey one commandment and you still keeping them all?? The commandments are set in stone, doesnt matter what you believe (alot of believers out there dont recognise paul as he never was one of the original apostles and because of his difference in scriptures as what Jesus taught and what paul taught) but it if the Sabbath falls on a saturday, and the commandment is that a Sabbath should be kept HOLY on the seventh day....who gives anyone the right to change that when its a commandment??
> 
> The roman catholic church changed the first day of the week to a monday, and the last day to a sunday....
> 
> ...


I never claimed to "keep them all" or be perfect in any way. That's a strawman. But I make no proud proclamations about my intent to violate them. I do my best to keep them.
Moses made it clear that the Sabbath was given to the Jewish nation. It was intended to remind the Jews of their release from bondage from Egypt. ("You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day. " - Deuteronomy 5:15)
If anyone observes it, that is perfectly fine. If anyone who isn't Jewish does not, that is also fine. God made numerous laws that only Jews were expected to follow.
When Christ came, the law was replaced with the new covenant.

I can't help your delusion about thinking normal people are the Messiah, but I'm trying to help you see that stealing is wrong in all contexts and cannot be justified by scripture.
It's up to you though. Try to drop the attitude and ego and see the conversation for what it is. Don't throw away your eternal life for the sake of a full belly.


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