# Solar power update



## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

This is the latest on my solar power journey. Remember I started with a 400 watt Home Depot kit.

Several months ago I came up with the bright idea to try to power my window AC on sunny days. First purchase was a new, 2800 watt Outback inverter. I made a mistake early last spring by installing 2 additional solar panels bringing my array to 800 watts. But my controller was only rated to handle 600 watts! So next purchase was an Outback 80 amp charge controller. Note; THIS IS GETTING EXPENSIVE!

I still haven’t tried to power the AC yet. But I can now run my freezer and dehumidifier on sunny days. My weak link now is my battery capacity. I have about 615 amp-hrs. I can power the freezer all nite.

I just got 2 more panels on sale at Home Depot. This will bring me to 1000 watts and the practical limit of my solar experiment. To go more I would probably have to go with larger cables and a 24 volt system. That isn’t gonna happen. So I will play with my upgraded toys and see just how much I can squeeze out of them. Right now on a sunny day I am harvesting just over 4 kw per day. This is definately NOT a cost effective set up. But it is comforting to know I have some independent electrical capacity.

As a side note, Outback builds some awesome equipment. But it is expensive. Also, after spending all those bucks to purchase their toys, you must purchase expensive software to get all the performance and flexibility out of their products. NOT COOL!

So todays project is to fab up some steel angle extensions to increase my solar panel frame dimensions to accept the new panels.


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

If I can ask, how much invested so far? I had a small wind generator at my property for a while (it is still there but I am not) and am looking at powering my pole barn to start with. Problem is I'm running out of house building money that was supposed to cover a larger solar array so I have to cut it back.
Thanks

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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

The Grape Solar panels go on sale at Home Depot for $100 each. Outback 2800 watt inverter about $1700. Outback 80 amp charge controller was around $500. Batteries depend on whatever your needs are..... i have about $600 in golf cart batteries. Then wire and cables, 1/0 and 2/0 wire gets expensive. I built a ground mount sytem to mount my panels in the back yard. I never added it all up as this has been put together piece-meal over a few years. But it looks like between $4k and $5k. That’s a lot to spend to just power a few appliances. But I don’t have to worry about power outages!


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## MikeTango (Apr 13, 2018)

Chiefster23 said:


> The Grape Solar panels go on sale at Home Depot for $100 each. Outback 2800 watt inverter about $1700. Outback 80 amp charge controller was around $500. Batteries depend on whatever your needs are..... i have about $600 in golf cart batteries. Then wire and cables, 1/0 and 2/0 wire gets expensive. I built a ground mount sytem to mount my panels in the back yard. I never added it all up as this has been put together piece-meal over a few years. But it looks like between $4k and $5k. That's a lot to spend to just power a few appliances. But I don't have to worry about power outages!


What would an EMP do to your system?

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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Destroy it, I’m sure. I have my old inverter and charge controller in faraday cages just in case. I also have spare diodes to replace those on the solar panels if needed. So I would lose my main components initially, but my backups would have me running again although at reduced capacities.


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## MikeTango (Apr 13, 2018)

I’m thinking, Bam! EMP attack... Most if not all of the electric grid goes down, most cars stop running, most computers sizzle, etc etc... Within a day or two most preppers with faraday cage protected electronics are up and running. Several days or maybe a week later, Bam! Second EMP attack... effectively wiping out most equipment taken out of protection and what vehicles and things the first attack missed. Just a thought...


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

MikeTango said:


> What would an EMP do to your system?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


In eastern Jefferson I saw several solar arrays on a property that had a 1/2 in square mesh galvanized cage around it. I could not get close enough to see their system completely. But they were adding to it and it looked like they had a trencher running a trench from panel array to panel array. I would assume to run the cables underground. Would this method EMP proof it? I am "A Babe In The Woods" when it comes to solar. All my experience was done by someone who knew what they were doing. I am very interested in this thread for the future.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Gunn said:


> In eastern Jefferson I saw several solar arrays on a property that had a 1/2 in square mesh galvanized cage around it. I could not get close enough to see their system completely. But they were adding to it and it looked like they had a trencher running a trench from panel array to panel array. I would assume to run the cables underground. Would this method EMP proof it? I am "A Babe In The Woods" when it comes to solar. All my experience was done by someone who knew what they were doing. I am very interested in this thread for the future.


It _might_ help, but if there's an opening, the power surge from an EMP can get in through the buried line.


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## MikeTango (Apr 13, 2018)

Gunn said:


> In eastern Jefferson I saw several solar arrays on a property that had a 1/2 in square mesh galvanized cage around it. I could not get close enough to see their system completely. But they were adding to it and it looked like they had a trencher running a trench from panel array to panel array. I would assume to run the cables underground. Would this method EMP proof it? I am "A Babe In The Woods" when it comes to solar. All my experience was done by someone who knew what they were doing. I am very interested in this thread for the future.


Wow! Sounds like they were making a serious attempt at EMP proofing their system. Have no idea if it would work or not. If you find any info on EMP and solar electric systems post it here and I'll do the same.

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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> It _might_ help, but if there's an opening, the power surge from an EMP can get in through the buried line.


So the metal conduit will not protect it?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Gunn said:


> So the metal conduit will not protect it?


And the wires inside the conduit are connected to.................?


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Gunn said:


> So the metal conduit will not protect it?


Metal conduit or even having most of the wire buried will help protect it from the H1 wave but probably not from the H2 wave. Panels don't have any electronics delicate enough in them to be affected by the H3 wave.

As far as screen over the panels it may or may not protect from the H2 wave but may actually catch the H1 wave and bring it to your panels since a longer wire (over about 30') is required to catch a full H1 wave. Also the wire mesh will probably cut the solar panel output in half because even a bit of shade can really cut into a panels output. Most likely a solar panel would survive anyway but if an EMP did damage a solar panel it would probably be the 3 diodes in the panel which can be replaced. Just keep some spare 10 amp diodes and a butane soldering iron.

There is a company that makes "EMP resistant" solar equipment but it's expensive and I have no idea it it's any good. If you want to assure some solar power ability you'd need a backup controller and inverter in a cage or bag.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Chiefster23 said:


> This is the latest on my solar power journey. Remember I started with a 400 watt Home Depot kit.
> 
> Several months ago I came up with the bright idea to try to power my window AC on sunny days. First purchase was a new, 2800 watt Outback inverter. I made a mistake early last spring by installing 2 additional solar panels bringing my array to 800 watts. But my controller was only rated to handle 600 watts! So next purchase was an Outback 80 amp charge controller. Note; THIS IS GETTING EXPENSIVE!
> 
> ...


I'm going to assume you've got one of those small 5000 btu window AC units. With your current 800 watts in panels and 615 amp/hrs of batteries you've got plenty of power to run a 5000 btu AC unit starting about 2 hours after the batteries go into absorb until about 2 hours after the sun stops hitting the panels without overly draining your batteries. I wouldn't advise using an AC unit over 8000 btu with that setup, it would be too hard on the batteries.

That system with those batteries should be able to hold a medium sized chest freezer for 2 days without overly depleting the batteries but it really depends on how efficient the freezer is. My cheap old 5 cu/ft freezer used about .9 kwh/day. But my newer ($320 on sale) 10 cu/ft energy star rated chest freezer only uses .7 kwh/day.

a reminder about extending panel racks, the longer the rack with no additional supports in the ground the more chance of the wind bending something.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Your calculations on the freezer are about what I am seeing in practice. I’m now playing around with powering the freezer full time and trying to harvest the additional power during daylite hours only. So I would only be running the AC say from 10am to maybe 5pm. Right now I have been sucessful running the freezer full time and an old dehumidifer daylite only. When this rain stops I will mount my additional panels and see if I can power my fridge and then maybe the AC (not at the same time). And yes, I already have plans to increase the supports to my panel framework. The weatherman sez today will be sunny and dry. I’m not sure I remember what the sun looks like.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Chiefster23 said:


> And yes, I already have plans to increase the supports to my panel framework. The weatherman sez today will be sunny and dry. I'm not sure I remember what the sun looks like.


At least all that rain will make it easier to use posthole diggers to put the supports in.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Elvis said:


> At least all that rain will make it easier to use posthole diggers to put the supports in.


You've never used a post-hole digger before, have you? Especially with mud.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Back Pack Hack said:


> You've never used a post-hole digger before, have you? Especially with mud.


I've learned to time it a bit with posthole diggers, wait for a long soaking rain and then wait a few days for the ground to firm up but is not concrete hard. Cleaning clay out of posthole diggers is a pain.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Chiefster23 said:


> This is the latest on my solar power journey. Remember I started with a 400 watt Home Depot kit.
> 
> Several months ago I came up with the bright idea to try to power my window AC on sunny days. First purchase was a new, 2800 watt Outback inverter. I made a mistake early last spring by installing 2 additional solar panels bringing my array to 800 watts. But my controller was only rated to handle 600 watts! So next purchase was an Outback 80 amp charge controller. Note; THIS IS GETTING EXPENSIVE!
> 
> ...


I would think that you could enlarge the size of your solar kit without going with larger cables. Put that 600 controller back to work.
pick up a panel or two and run a separate system and tie it into the one you have now


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I installed my last two panels this afternoon and all is working well. Tomorrow I will install the additional posts to increase the support for the panel frame. But things are looking good now. Looking forward to tomorrow to see how much power I can harvest over a full day.


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## Lowtechredneck (May 7, 2018)

Ok, now I feel lazy. A few years back I bought one of those Harbor Freight gas powered post hole diggers. It has been a wonderful thing, and I intend to get much more use out of it.:tango_face_grin:


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Chiefster23 said:


> I installed my last two panels this afternoon and all is working well. Tomorrow I will install the additional posts to increase the support for the panel frame. But things are looking good now. Looking forward to tomorrow to see how much power I can harvest over a full day.


Good deal on the extra panels.
Keep in mind that your daily harvest will depend largely on the state of your batteries. The other day my batteries were very low in the morning and I harvested 24 kwhs that day. 
But in anticipation of running an EQ today I really went easy on the batteries last night and no AC until later in the day today. Even after the EQ my charge controller shows only harvesting 18 kwhs today.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

and then 4 days later BAM another emp follow by another... at some point not even an easy bake oven will work


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

After the first emp hit, I imagine there would be an unimaginable shit storm. The nukes would fly in all directions. A smart leader would take advantage of that situation to reduce all our prospective enemies to cave dwellers. So yes, the USA would be in deep shit. And after the retaliation so would Russia, China, NOKO, Iran, and maybe a few others. The MAD doctrine still applies.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> and then 4 days later BAM another emp follow by another... at some point not even an easy bake oven will work


And BAM, 24 hours later you die of dehydration for your lack of any skin left on your body. :tango_face_wink:


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Maine-Marine said:


> and then 4 days later BAM another emp follow by another... at some point not even an easy bake oven will work


As I recall you've used the "easy bake" line before. Good line but an old joke.

I read a few years ago about how any nation that made a successful EMP strike would wait 2-3 days before trying for an EMP again assuming the attacked countries didn't flatten it (was Soviet military doctrine and may still be along with other countries). This would allow the target country to employ stored military and emergency equipment before striking it again.

Simply keep your emp protected stuff protected for a few days. Or bake some cookies in that easy bake oven.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Keep in mind that pounding the ground with a bunch of nukes will make a nuclear winter so I suspect that most countries would use an EMP with very few ground strikes to minimize the potential of a nuclear winter.

Now can we get back to the original topic of this thread?


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

So...I just bought an 800 watt Renogy 24 V system...going to put it on the roof of my pole bar (when the roof is there anyway) . Thinking about putting 24 VDC lights and running them off the batteries. Then when I run power from the house (which also is not yet there) I'll run a line back for future use.

I can add panels if I change out the charge controller which I eventually would do anyway.

Any gotchas I should keep an eye out for? I have done wind before but not solar.

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## 0rocky (Jan 7, 2018)

Maine-Marine said:


> and then 4 days later BAM another emp follow by another... at some point not even an easy bake oven will work


Maybe put your electronics in a Faraday Cage.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

soyer38301 said:


> So...I just bought an 800 watt Renogy 24 V system...going to put it on the roof of my pole bar (when the roof is there anyway) . Thinking about putting 24 VDC lights and running them off the batteries. Then when I run power from the house (which also is not yet there) I'll run a line back for future use.
> 
> I can add panels if I change out the charge controller which I eventually would do anyway.
> 
> ...


Make sure you size your cables taking into account any future upgrades. Particularly when you run your wires underground between your house and barn. You don't want to have to dig twice. Or you can just install bigger conduit so you can pull largers wires later on if needed.


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

Chiefster23 said:


> Make sure you size your cables taking into account any future upgrades. Particularly when you run your wires underground between your house and barn. You don't want to have to dig twice. Or you can just install bigger conduit so you can pull largers wires later on if needed.


What I was planning there is a larger conduit with a pull cord...sink the conduit once and just pull what i need. Thanks

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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I think you are on the right track with 24 volts. I went with 12 volts and I’m sorry I did. 24 volts gives you much more flexibility to expand later.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Around my area there are lots of homes with grid tie systems. The panels are 48 volt panels. I can't tell for sure, 
but it appears that they maybe running the panels in series creating 480 VDC to the grid tie inverter. I've been 
entertaining the idea of purchasing a 48 volt inverter and solar charge controller. A lot of money but if SHTF, I 
could build a very larger panel system once the people move out. Just a thought.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Just as an update; a while back I said I wanted to try to run an 8000 btu window air conditioner from my solar set up. That led to me buying a new inverter, charge controller, and 2 additional panels. Well I tested it out today for about 1/2 hour. It works! But when a cloud blocks the sun it hits my batteries pretty hard. On a cloudless day it should work fine...... but for daily use, not practical. I need to get bigger and better batteries, but not for a while yet. The solar budget is dry for a while. However, I’m satisfied. For an extended power outage I can very easily keep my fridge and freezer going by carefully running each on an alternating basis while supplying necessary lighting. A pain in the butt? Yes! But very possible if absolutely necessary.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

MikeTango said:


> I'm thinking, Bam! EMP attack... Most if not all of the electric grid goes down, most cars stop running, most computers sizzle, etc etc... Within a day or two most preppers with faraday cage protected electronics are up and running. Several days or maybe a week later, Bam! Second EMP attack... effectively wiping out most equipment taken out of protection and what vehicles and things the first attack missed. Just a thought...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


With all the submarine based nuclear weapons there might be a second EMP before they figure out who is responsible, but I doubt there will be a third. I suspect our land based nuclear weapons are also hardened against attack.


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