# JHP vs FMJ



## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

There are those who say hollow points are better for self defense; one sees test videos showing HP's being fired into a gel type material and how it expands and stops and causes more tissue damage. We are also warned that FMJ will go through walls so be careful if you are shooting at an intruder that you don't accidentally kill a neighbor.

Well, if you are having to shoot through a wall or any object (vehicle?) at a threat, wouldn't it be better to use FMJ? Seems to me you wouldn't want the bullet to expand and stop in the wall? Wouldn't there be times when you would want that through penetration?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

1. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded until YOU prove otherwise
2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and have made the decision to fire
3. Never point your muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy
*4. KNOW YOUR TARGET, WHAT IS IN FRONT OF IT, AND WHAT IS BEHIND IT!*

We don't shoot at shadows, bushes, or through walls.
Shoot at the target presented.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

If you use a large enough caliber penetration won't be an issue. That's what she says anyway.


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## Tango2X (Jul 7, 2016)

HP is not always the best.
There have been tests shooting HP ammo into gel block with denim in front, that show the bullet not expanding at all


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

I was thinking about an extreme, war-like, fighting in the streets situation, like Selco describes in his books. Hopefully, we never come to that.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

ItsJustMe said:


> I was thinking about an extreme, war-like, fighting in the streets situation, like Selco describes in his books. Hopefully, we never come to that.


If you find yourself in a warzone, use what works.
Ball ammo will always penetrate more than soft or hollow point ammunition.
One thing to keep in mind is logistics. You won't have the support of a military supply chain. Spraying into cover could be nothing but a waste of ammo you might not be able to replace easily.
I would still recommend shooting only at targets presented.


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## Echo47 (Aug 11, 2021)

To quote an old combat medic, Carry the biggest caliber you can, shoot at what you can hit, then shoot it again. At a certain point, you have to apply practicality over the mind-ninja scenarios we can imagine ourselves in. For every "shoot through the wall", there's an opposing "children on the other side". Yes, even in warzones. For realistic expectations that will allow you to live with yourself, shoot at what you can see to hit, regardless of ammo type.

Always remember Rule #4.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

For some calibers, hollow or soft points are unnecessary against human targets. 30-06, .308, 8MM Mauser come quickly to mind. Hunting game animals is different.
Even the lowly 5.56 works quite well with a 55 grain FMJ against a human.
I've had WWII guys at our reunions say that one hit on the torso of a German with an M1 Garand would put the kraut down. They loved the Garand.

Handguns are different. They are relatively low powered, despite what Hollywood or TV depicts. They need all the help they can get. If this means a 9MM projectile that will open up to 50 caliber or more, that's the ticket.
Even in my .357 magnum, I carry jacketed soft points. Although, I do carry FMJ ball ammo in my .45's. They have a 4 major war reputation of working well.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

ItsJustMe said:


> There are those who say hollow points are better for self defense; one sees test videos showing HP's being fired into a gel type material and how it expands and stops and causes more tissue damage. We are also warned that FMJ will go through walls so be careful if you are shooting at an intruder that you don't accidentally kill a neighbor.
> 
> Well, if you are having to shoot through a wall or any object (vehicle?) at a threat, wouldn't it be better to use FMJ? Seems to me you wouldn't want the bullet to expand and stop in the wall? Wouldn't there be times when you would want that through penetration?


Good point. The cop shoppe where I used to toil uses 40s and passes out some ammo that has a nasty front part and solid backside. Tactical maybe. Its supposed to be able to fill the gap either way. This is either it or similar.








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www.federalpremium.com


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## wjv (Sep 2, 2021)

Depends on why you're shooting.

Self defense
Hunting
Protection from dangerous animals
Protection from REALLY BIG dangerous animals


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> *4. KNOW YOUR TARGET, WHAT IS IN FRONT OF IT, AND WHAT IS BEHIND IT!*


Of course. I have never served in the military or in a war zone in any capacity. I can, however, imagine situations where one would _return_ fire without knowing exactly what was in that direction? I have had good training in shooting, had to stop when winter set in and ammo became so difficult to find and prices skyrocketed. It was, however, all in a very controlled environment. I have no idea how I would act under real fighting conditions.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

bigwheel said:


> Good point. The cop shoppe where I used to toil uses 40s and passes out some ammo that has a nasty front part and solid backside. Tactical maybe. Its supposed to be able to fill the gap either way. This is either it or similar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have heard the term "hydra shock" before; never knew what it meant. Interesting. Thanks for the link but at that price, not something you would take to the range for practice...


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

A bonded hollow point from a reputable brand solves a lot of issues that have to be solved with a firearm.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> A bonded hollow point from a reputable brand solves a lot of issues that have to be solved with a firearm.


Pretty sure the last batch of pass out duty ammo was bonded. Know it has the word Tactical wrote on the box and is Federal brand but didnt see any offered for sale at their website.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

ItsJustMe said:


> There are those who say hollow points are better for self defense; one sees test videos showing HP's being fired into a gel type material and how it expands and stops and causes more tissue damage. We are also warned that FMJ will go through walls so be careful if you are shooting at an intruder that you don't accidentally kill a neighbor.
> 
> Well, if you are having to shoot through a wall or any object (vehicle?) at a threat, wouldn't it be better to use FMJ? Seems to me you wouldn't want the bullet to expand and stop in the wall? Wouldn't there be times when you would want that through penetration?


Yes there are calibers and situations in which using FMJ ammo makes more sense. Handguns such as a .32 ACP, some even say .380 are more effective using FMJ. Most ammo for AR15's/M4's and similar platforms is FMJ. An AR/M4/M16 type using FMJ ammo will easily penetrate car doors, windshield, the sides of house and even cinder blocks.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

I’ll add this for consideration.









The Xtreme Defender is based on the popular Xtreme Penetrator product line. The XD ammunition has an optimized nose flute, total weight, and velocity to achieve a penetration depth up to 18 inches* with a permanent wound cavity (PWC) that is just simply enormous; no other expanding hollowpoint comes close to achieving anywhere near this diameter and volume. Not only is the PWC over 100% larger than any other expanding bullet, expansion is achieved despite being shot through barriers. The solid copper body ensures that wallboard, sheet metal, and automotive glass will have no effect on the Permanent Wound Channel.

*Falling within FBI guidelines

This round offers:

A permanent wound cavity (PWC)that is 2 times greater than any expanding bullet
Reduced recoil
Radial flutes that force the hydraulic energy inward to build pressure
Minimal surface area to increase the force at the point of contact and sharp cutting edges that defeat barriers.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

KUSA said:


> I’ll add this for consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy cow.


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## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

When using a firearm, you always need to match up the ballistics with your intended purpose. Obviously in a defense against humans situation, or where there are a lot of other innocents, you want to limit over-penetration to not kill what may be behind your target. Generally speaking, with combat and hunting, you need to consider range and the terminal ballistics at the intended range, relative to your intended target. If you are defending yourself against a large predator, as in a brown bear, you will want to penetrate as much as possible, to break through the fur, crush through the bones, and get a cns or vital organ hit.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

ItsJustMe said:


> Of course. I have never served in the military or in a war zone in any capacity. I can, however, imagine situations where one would _return_ fire without knowing exactly what was in that direction? I have had good training in shooting, had to stop when winter set in and ammo became so difficult to find and prices skyrocketed. It was, however, all in a very controlled environment. I have no idea how I would act under real fighting conditions.


Another situation that could be a real possibility is an extreme dark night situation, with no artificial light glow in the sky, where you are shooting at the enemy's muzzle flashes. And, of course, he is shooting at YOURS.


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