# It appears the Ft. Hood shooter was taking prescription SSRI meds.



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

At what point do officials at least consider the possibility that this particular classification of drugs plays a significant role in mass shootings? 

Almost universally, mass shooters have been taking these drugs at the time that they went on their shooting sprees. 

I also wonder at what point officials will admit that "gun free zones" are very bad ideas.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Vets are going to lose their guns

Another Fort Hood shooting?Too coincidental don't you think?The PTB's are laying the ground work to disarm vets, they are going to say because of PTSD they can't be allowed to own firearms.I fully believe this to be another MK Ultra shooting, kills then takes his own life, sure fits the pattern.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

The problem with all these psychotropic drugs is that they permanently affect the patient's brain. Even after the patient stops taking the meds, his brain is still messed up for life. After all of the evidence over the last 20 years, any parent that allows a doctor to put their kids on ADD or ADHD drugs is crazy.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Inor said:


> The problem with all these psychotropic drugs is that they permanently affect the patient's brain. Even after the patient stops taking the meds, he brain is still messed up for life. After all of the evidence over the last 20 years, any parent that allows a doctor to put their kids on ADD or ADHD drugs is crazy.


I agree with you 100 percent. ADD and ADHD are phony disorders. The symptoms are best treated with a good diet, exercise and sleep. In the case of SSRIs, even if the government admits that those drugs are responsible for the mass shootings, they will still go after the gun owners and not the quacks in the mental health field who prescribe these toxic substances.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The meds they use to treat PTSD do nothing but make it worst. If you have a Soldier with a true case of PTSD they need serious treatment not drugs.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Drugs are the quick fix for the "new world"
If you have a head ache, take Tylenol!, you were probably dehydrated in the first place (first symptoms of dehydration), take drugs to make the head ache go away, but in the end, your still dehydrated!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Seen to many strung out on these different drugs. In many cases like this there is a likely hood of other conditions going on. 
I saw where is was referred to as a 34 year old SPC. A bit old for a SPC. Just because the label PTSD has been brought up does not make it the cause.
Just like in the civilian world there are people that get in the Military that have problems.
I have often said if you take a mixed up 19 year old with a drinking problem ship him off to combat, you often end up with a 21 year old mixed up person with a drinking problem and a new excuse.
Please do not think I am blowing PTSD off I am not. I just dealt with a lot of soldier issues and may have a different point of view.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Troops come home from a war zone and someone hands them a bag of pills and says 'take these, we'll check on you soon", and everyone seems surprised when one does some dumb sh&t---


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Surprise surprise. 

You get the most effect when a patient is going on or off of mood altering substances. They are required to be on a locked psychiatric unit when they make adjustments to prescriptions. Required like a jail or a freaking death camp. Sry.
They know what they are doing with these pills and they belong behind bars or they probably belong on thier own pills.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

I will post this again. This was John Noveske's last Facebook post before he was mysteriously killed in a single car accident. He was all about ssri's and other meds. Check this out!!

This is the last post John Noveske made on his Facebook page before he was killed:
Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa **** from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show **** was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.
Missing from list… 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….
What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or
What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven’t heard about being on drugs of some kind.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Crazy people kill, and crazy people take drugs. While there is very likely a connection it is not irrefutably proven that crazy people kill BECAUSE they take drugs. I think it is highly likely that the drugs play a major role, but I can't say that they would not have killed without the drugs.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

This might not be popular, and probably wont be taken well, BUT I am ON PAXIL. I think that everyone is saying that the meds made them do it. Well, I think that the meds may have contributed, but that the MILLIONS of people taking paxil and prozac haven't done this. I compare it to "Suicide soluition" by Black Sabbath. They were sued, by some parents, who claimed that the song "made thier child commit suicide". WEll, Millions upon millions have heard that song, and sadly, a few committed suicide. No doubt, this tragedy will bring more focus on mental health issues, but It also boils down to America's stigma and Mens pride, Im 40, and the last thing any man I know wants to admit is mental issues. WE keep that shit locked down, Only "weak" people have mental health issues. There is a deep rooted fear of mental issues, and I have no solutions. MUCH LOVE- Donnie


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

jimb1972 said:


> Crazy people kill, and crazy people take drugs. While there is very likely a connection it is not irrefutably proven that crazy people kill BECAUSE they take drugs. I think it is highly likely that the drugs play a major role, but I can't say that they would not have killed without the drugs.


Crazy people, drugs and guns is a bad combination. But of course, the libs decided it was cruel to lock the crazy people up back in the 70's and decided to load 'em up on drugs in the 90's. So now they get guns and shoot people. Who would have thunk?


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

jimb1972 said:


> Crazy people kill, and crazy people take drugs. While there is very likely a connection it is not irrefutably proven that crazy people kill BECAUSE they take drugs. I think it is highly likely that the drugs play a major role, but I can't say that they would not have killed without the drugs.


you can try to blame the drug but isn't it really just a messed up mind due to a messed up life that person lead? a person with PTSD shoots a bunch of people. So now we blame the drug that was supposed to be helping to prevent this from happening? why not blame the reason he had PTSD instead? 
How many millions of people over the years have benefited from the drugs that are now being blamed?. I'm not saying every one who is on them should be, but many people on them would not be able to have a normal life with out them. 
why not prevent these people from getting messed up in the first place and we wont have the problem. Get rid of the TV and video game teaching these kids from birth that killing is ok. Teach our kids as well as the adults of our world to respect life again. teach people that life is not to be taken for granted and wasted. Life should mean something. 
Also teach people that if you do not respect life and the laws our society needs to function, they will have severe punishment that meet the severity of their crime. you take a life- you give yours. you cause life to be taken -you give up yours. If people understood there were going to be an actual punishment for what they do, maybe they would change their minds.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

tirednurse said:


> you can try to blame the drug but isn't it really just a messed up mind due to a messed up life that person lead? a person with PTSD shoots a bunch of people. So now we blame the drug that was supposed to be helping to prevent this from happening? why not blame the reason he had PTSD instead?
> How many millions of people over the years have benefited from the drugs that are now being blamed?. I'm not saying every one who is on them should be, but many people on them would not be able to have a normal life with out them.
> why not prevent these people from getting messed up in the first place and we wont have the problem. Get rid of the TV and video game teaching these kids from birth that killing is ok. Teach our kids as well as the adults of our world to respect life again. teach people that life is not to be taken for granted and wasted. Life should mean something.
> Also teach people that if you do not respect life and the laws our society needs to function, they will have severe punishment that meet the severity of their crime. you take a life- you give yours. you cause life to be taken -you give up yours. If people understood there were going to be an actual punishment for what they do, maybe they would change their minds.


I do not disagree entirely, but many of the psychotropic drugs have been WAY overprescribed. These drugs have been proven to actually change the "wiring" of the brain. That may be okay in the most extreme cases, but certainly not in the wholesale cases they have been prescribed for over the last couple decades.

Beyond that, your points of respecting life, respecting laws and society and getting rid of TV and video games, I cannot agree more.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

The main problem with these gun free zones is that people are bringing guns into them. Its like poaching. They need game warden's able to enforce the laws, and those warden's probably shouldn't be the poachers.

None the less very sad. Chances are he was a "risk" with or without drugs. Drugs are bad though. IF it ain't broke don't reinvent the wheel.

Drugs are not stabilization devices unless they are terminal tranquilizers. Stick to ECST and tDCS it works.

As soon as you screw around with neuronal function you are 1. causing brain damage, 2. dissociating people from reality.

Those two things, along with memory destruction and alteration of perception of memory can create people with new emotional responses to their past and not necessarily good responses. It can also allow new emotions progressively to develope meaning more radical responses, and dissociation from ones feelings and action. 

Don't drug people zap them. This is the same tech that is being used to train drone pilots. If it is safe for america's most lethal killers you'd think it'd be ok to manage ptsd.

End drugging people for thought control, use the electro not the chemical, it is a big pharma plot.

Electro is safer and better for the body and health in general.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I had a friend, a good friend of twenty years. A Marine tanker. We were in a VA PTSD program together. I refused to take their damn drugs, and so did Bill. But the VA is persistant. After a number of years they convinced Bill he really needed their drugs if he wanted "to get well".
It takes a bit of time while the White Coats adjust the doseage. During this adjustment phase there is the possibility of bad reactions, mental changes, mood swings, etc.
Bill's wife came home from work one day to find Bill dead. Bill hung himself. That was over 15 years ago, and I still miss my buddy Bill.
Smitty is right. Drug treatment for PTSD is a bunch of horse dung. Totally unnecessary. And in some cases, deadly. 

Rant over.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Will said:


> The main problem with these gun free zones is that people are bringing guns into them. Its like poaching. They need game warden's able to enforce the laws, and those warden's probably shouldn't be the poachers.
> 
> None the less very sad. Chances are he was a "risk" with or without drugs. Drugs are bad though. IF it ain't broke don't reinvent the wheel.
> 
> ...


Could you please reword that so I understand what you are saying? Half of it, I was almost saying "Hell Yeah!" But the other half, I was screaming: "Are you out of your ****ing mind?!?!" - Game wardens?!?! WTF? There was no middle ground. Right now, I am just sitting here thinking that I am the one that needs to be "zapped". "Electrocute yourself - it's good for the body and good for the mind" Huh?!?!


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Inor said:


> Could you please reword that so I understand what you are saying? Half of it, I was almost saying "Hell Yeah!" But the other half, I was screaming: "Are you out of your ****ing mind?!?!" - Game wardens?!?! WTF? There was no middle ground. Right now, I am just sitting here thinking that I am the one that needs to be "zapped". "Electrocute yourself - it's good for the body and good for the mind" Huh?!?!









:lol:


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

You lose your memory with ect or electro shock. No memory=no problem right?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Inor said:


> Could you please reword that so I understand what you are saying? Half of it, I was almost saying "Hell Yeah!" But the other half, I was screaming: "Are you out of your ****ing mind?!?!" - Game wardens?!?! WTF? There was no middle ground. Right now, I am just sitting here thinking that I am the one that needs to be "zapped". "Electrocute yourself - it's good for the body and good for the mind" Huh?!?!


I'm telling you Inor, I know I met Will at a dive bar in Kenora, Ontario while fishing Lake of The Woods one year. Half the time I wanted to high five the guy, the other half of the time I thought he was crazy as a shithouse rat.


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

Charles Martel said:


> At what point do officials at least consider the possibility that this particular classification of drugs plays a significant role in mass shootings?
> 
> Almost universally, mass shooters have been taking these drugs at the time that they went on their shooting sprees.


I'm not a clinician, so I'm not privy to the risk/benefit analysis in the trenches of medicine, but as a future pharmacist, I am privy to what doctors are SUPPOSED to do according to the DSM 5 (mental disorder) guidelines.

Nearly every drug used in the brain from AMBIEN to ZYPREXA is supposed to be 2nd line to education and/or counseling for 6 months. My guess is that the HC system is too strained and expensive and they've decided that what's best for their livelihood and profit margin is to "churn and burn" through patients instead of putting the time in to really follow guidelines.

That said, have we ever paused to consider that everyone who was on an SSRI and committed a shooting like this was on that SSRI for a reason (mental disorder)? Maybe it's the mental condition itself that's to blame for these heinous acts and not the drug? Just food for thought...



> I also wonder at what point officials will admit that "gun free zones" are very bad ideas.


100% agreed.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

pharmer14 said:


> That said, have we ever paused to consider that everyone who was on an SSRI and committed a shooting like this was on that SSRI for a reason (mental disorder)? Maybe it's the mental condition itself that's to blame for these heinous acts and not the drug? Just food for thought...


This is a fair question. There are literally millions of people taking SSRI medications in this country. They don't all hang themselves, chop their parents into pieces, or walk into public places and start shooting people. But, I find it compelling that nearly every mass shooter (really, I can't think of one that wasn't) in the last three decades were taking these medications at the time they committed their atrocities.

To my mind, the SSRI link to violent behavior is a little bit like the link that pornography has to abnormal sexuality and serial killers. Tens of millions of adult American males are addicted to pornography, but, very few of them become serial killers. However, just about every serial killer that has ever lived was addicted to pornography.

I believe SSRI drugs are one factor in a larger equation. The data seems to suggest that these medications may provide the trigger, the sociopathy necessary for an already abnormal psychology to become dangerously so. As someone who was once prescribed an SSRI (I took it for a very short period of time), I can tell you first hand that it makes one detached and less able to feel empathy for other human beings (among other effects). In some individuals, this may be all that is required to facilitate a violent outburst.

I don't think SSRI medications are likely to make most depressed or anxious people go postal. I do, however, think it makes those already predisposed to violence more likely to act out their violent fantasies. It seems to take much of the fear and anxiety about the consequences of their actions away from them.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Slippy said:


> I'm telling you Inor, I know I met Will at a dive bar in Kenora, Ontario while fishing Lake of The Woods one year. Half the time I wanted to high five the guy, the other half of the time I thought he was crazy as a shithouse rat.


That area has some damn long winters and after ice fishing is done around the end of February, there are not a whole lot of people to talk to until fishing opener in mid-May. If you ever wondered why every other resort in that area is named Whispering Pines, it is because by April, the pines are starting to whisper back... :shock:


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

Morphine can make a guy a junkie, but if your hurt or dieing its a wonder drug. ssri's have helped a shitload of people but nuts who do murder also tend to be on head meds. that coo coo was in the gaurd like 12 years and maybe five active and he's only a spec? Somethtin was definatly wrong with him. SSRI's or not he was nuts and probably would have done somethin to "prove" he had ptsd. He was definatly fishin for a disability pension. He was claiming a TBI that no one knew about? B.S. ptsd from 4 months driving a truck in iraq? maybe, but this case stinks. The Army isnt tellin us all they know about this.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

I'm sure there are benefits to these drugs but I think they are way over prescribed. Here is the thing. The meds have side effects but these people are ****ing crazy on a good day. Then they have something happen to piss em off and they go nuts. These people that are doing these shootings are not playing with a full deck anyway, add in some meds and it is asking for trouble.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

pharmer14 said:


> I'm not a clinician, so I'm not privy to the risk/benefit analysis in the trenches of medicine, but as a future pharmacist, I am privy to what doctors are SUPPOSED to do according to the DSM 5 (mental disorder) guidelines.
> 
> Nearly every drug used in the brain from AMBIEN to ZYPREXA is supposed to be 2nd line to education and/or counseling for 6 months. My guess is that the HC system is too strained and expensive and they've decided that what's best for their livelihood and profit margin is to "churn and burn" through patients instead of putting the time in to really follow guidelines.
> 
> ...


Instead of trying to solve the issue with the blame game, here is what I don't get:

We already know the side effects of SSRIs. How come we don't hold the doctors who prescribe the medications accountable for what the drugs do a given patient? If doctors are supposed to monitor someone for six months and they aren't doing it, then that should be a cause for concern. Instead of joining John Boehner and denying people their Second Amendment Rights just because some PhD. quack said a person has a "_mental issue_", why not focus on how it came to be that a doctor allowed a potentially dangerous person to run loose in a free society?

Additionally, with the drug companies knowing the side effects of their drugs, *WHERE *is the accountability on their part?


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

patients are monitored for side effects as well as educated about them. however not all people are honest about the things going on in their heads. Why? cause then we would call them crazy and lock them up! would you tell someone that you took hellacious delight in imagining your knife sinking into the chest of the ass hole that cut you off on the highway. I don't think so. seeing little green men crawling on the walls laughing at you? don't tell anyone cause they will know you're crazy. 
I am not disagreeing with the fact that to many people are put on these drugs instead of learning how to cope with life's stressors. that is unfortunate, but that does not mean that the drugs are the cause of the problem. these people are messed up to begin with, that is why they are put on the drugs not the other way around. 

Also not so well know is that not only was this guy having some issue (PTSD) real or imagined. He also had his father die not long ago and was having some severe financial issues. Typical isn't it. serve the country, see unhuman acts in the sake of serving your country, go a little crazy and have to live in poverty since we can not Pay our Vets a living wage? lets just give all their money to fat politicians instead.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

So you believe all or most patients are hiding something that is going on inside their heads or thoughts. How do you know if you're treating someone who doesn't have those thoughts. How do you know if they really just don't want to be bothered and are being hostile for that reason. How would one know if alot of this is caused by the medication. How would one know. One would assume.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

i agree the blame game is lame. also the dsm changes about every 10-15 years. thats why pharmer14 sites edition 5 . once gay was a mental illness. when enough gays became doctors, they changed the book! now its perfectly normal to be gay. same with schitzo- effective disorder once almost anyone fell into this huge nebulous group. now its been narrowed down to a pretty small population. as a plain ol workin nurse of 20 years experience speaking of only what i have seen, a lot of psych stuff is bullship. Any excuse in a storm. Ask any convict what he did to land in prison they will say oh booze and drugs MADE me do it, oh im sick!, bullship. now some folks want to give murderers, mass murderers a pass and blame meds once again bullship


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

about 200 likes tirednurse


tirednurse said:


> patients are monitored for side effects as well as educated about them. however not all people are honest about the things going on in their heads. Why? cause then we would call them crazy and lock them up! would you tell someone that you took hellacious delight in imagining your knife sinking into the chest of the ass hole that cut you off on the highway. I don't think so. seeing little green men crawling on the walls laughing at you? don't tell anyone cause they will know you're crazy.
> I am not disagreeing with the fact that to many people are put on these drugs instead of learning how to cope with life's stressors. that is unfortunate, but that does not mean that the drugs are the cause of the problem. these people are messed up to begin with, that is why they are put on the drugs not the other way around.
> 
> Also not so well know is that not only was this guy having some issue (PTSD) real or imagined. He also had his father die not long ago and was having some severe financial issues. Typical isn't it. serve the country, see unhuman acts in the sake of serving your country, go a little crazy and have to live in poverty since we can not Pay our Vets a living wage? lets just give all their money to fat politicians instead.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

James m said:


> So you believe all or most patients are hiding something that is going on inside their heads or thoughts. How do you know if you're treating someone who doesn't have those thoughts. How do you know if they really just don't want to be bothered and are being hostile for that reason. How would one know if alot of this is caused by the medication. How would one know. One would assume.


 you dont. you only know what they tell you, and if something terrible happens, blame the meds, or docs, or whatever. dont blame the nut killer. oh no! that would be harsh.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

who pays for this six months of close counciling and observation? the insurance? nope . the va? hell no. and where do we get this vast pool of clinicians, to do all this counciling for 6 months?


The Resister said:


> Instead of trying to solve the issue with the blame game, here is what I don't get:
> 
> We already know the side effects of SSRIs. How come we don't hold the doctors who prescribe the medications accountable for what the drugs do a given patient? If doctors are supposed to monitor someone for six months and they aren't doing it, then that should be a cause for concern. Instead of joining John Boehner and denying people their Second Amendment Rights just because some PhD. quack said a person has a "_mental issue_", why not focus on how it came to be that a doctor allowed a potentially dangerous person to run loose in a free society?
> 
> Additionally, with the drug companies knowing the side effects of their drugs, *WHERE *is the accountability on their part?


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Obama care should take care of the six months of observation


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

James m said:


> Obama care should take care of the six months of observation


I'm sure someone/something associated with obamacare is observing us right now!


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

Charles Martel said:


> This is a fair question. There are literally millions of people taking SSRI medications in this country. They don't all hang themselves, chop their parents into pieces, or walk into public places and start shooting people. But, I find it compelling that nearly every mass shooter (really, I can't think of one that wasn't) in the last three decades were taking these medications at the time they committed their atrocities.


By extension, you can also say that "nearly every mass shooter in the last three decades" had a mental disorder.

So which is it? The disorder or the medication?



> As someone who was once prescribed an SSRI (I took it for a very short period of time), I can tell you first hand that it makes one detached and less able to feel empathy for other human beings (among other effects). In some individuals, this may be all that is required to facilitate a violent outburst.


The drug information manual I have seems to state that most of those adverse events occur in <1% of the patient population... and they occur so infrequently that they weren't picked up in any of the clinical trials.



> I don't think SSRI medications are likely to make most depressed or anxious people go postal. I do, however, think it makes those already predisposed to violence more likely to act out their violent fantasies. It seems to take much of the fear and anxiety about the consequences of their actions away from them.


If there's any tie to the drugs and violence, I'd say it's here. <1% is a pretty darn good rate for a side effect if you ask me.

Maybe these guys were so aggressive because they were upset about the erectile dysfunction which occurs far more often?


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

The Resister said:


> Instead of trying to solve the issue with the blame game, here is what I don't get:
> 
> We already know the side effects of SSRIs. How come we don't hold the doctors who prescribe the medications accountable for what the drugs do a given patient? If doctors are supposed to monitor someone for six months and they aren't doing it, then that should be a cause for concern. Instead of joining John Boehner and denying people their Second Amendment Rights just because some PhD. quack said a person has a "_mental issue_", why not focus on how it came to be that a doctor allowed a potentially dangerous person to run loose in a free society?
> 
> Additionally, with the drug companies knowing the side effects of their drugs, *WHERE *is the accountability on their part?


I made this point replying to someone else just now... Aggression, anxiety, and hallucinations are reported in <1% of the people on the newer SSRI's. The older ones, sure, maybe a bit more frequently, but still <5%.

So the question then becomes is there impropriety and under reporting on the drug manufacturers' part? I would certainly not go that far. There are too many health professionals out there who would be crying wolf if numbers were under reported to protect the drugs.

Someone stated above that these people aren't playing with a full deck. I 100% agree. The thing you have to remember is that modern medicine views that symptom of a physical/chemical problem in the body. So if that's how modern medicine defines the problem, the treatment simply has to be medication. It would be illogical and against the definition of the disease to treat it any other way.

^^ That statement wasn't meant as an endorsement of SSRI's in all instances. I was just trying to make a point that disease/condition dictates treatment... The same is true for diabetes, infections, and osteoporosis too...


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

I can see a bacon break coming up.


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

tirednurse said:


> patients are monitored for side effects as well as educated about them. however not all people are honest about the things going on in their heads. Why? cause then we would call them crazy and lock them up!


Or because they like it. Many bipolars for example don't take the medication that prevents their manic phase because they love that feeling. Charlie Sheen is a good example... wound up losing his job over it, and referencing tiger blood and cocaine if memory serves me right...


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

MrsInor said:


> I can see a bacon break coming up.


To be honest, I'd take bacon over an SSRI if I was depressed...

It'd probably work better too


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

MrsInor said:


> I can see a bacon break coming up.


You could always try the RPD stress relief method - right now I have two windows open. This one, and in the background is you tube. I have my headphones on and am at this moment listening to Down By The River, by Neil Young.
Ok, maybe a song about shooting your "baby" down by the river is not optimal for this particular thread, but there are some hellacious guitar riffs going down.
::clapping::


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> You could always try the RPD stress relief method - right now I have two windows open. This one, and in the background is you tube. I have my headphones on and am at this moment listening to Down By The River, by Neil Young.
> Ok, maybe a song about shooting your "baby" down by the river is not optimal for this particular thread, but there are some hellacious guitar riffs going down.
> ::clapping::


The power of suggestion is a powerful one. Your mention of guitar riffs reminds me that I have not listened to Jimi in a while... ::clapping::


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

All Along The Watchtower.
Cross Town Traffic.

Hmm, as soon as Cinnamon Girl is done I'm going there!


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> All Along The Watchtower.
> Cross Town Traffic.
> 
> Hmm, as soon as Cinnamon Girl is done I'm going there!


His rendition of the Star Spangled Banner always chokes me up, but damn what a song!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Inor said:


> His rendition of the Star Spangled Banner always chokes me up, but damn what a song!


Agree!!!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Ahh, the dreaded Thread Drift. But, that is a wonderful feature of the Prepper Forums.
Anyone for a BLT sandwich, on toast of course?


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Ahh, the dreaded Thread Drift. But, that is a wonderful feature of the Prepper Forums.
> Anyone for a BLT sandwich, on toast of course?


If you have a tomato that doesn't taste like a grainy potato this time of year you are a lucky man.


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Don't have a tomato. Guess it will have to be an ice cream cone. That will be an ice cream cone instead of a BLT not as a replacement for the tomato.

Just circumventing Inor.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

OK, back to the original intent (sort of). We were talking about psychotropic drugs, so how about a little Purple Haze?
For you younger folk, Purple Haze was the street name for a certain variety of LSD back during The Summer Of Love days. And you can't get much more psychotropic than LSD.:-o


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Slippy & RPD -

You guys have made my day! Thank-you! Of course Mrs Inor is sitting across from me in the living room, looking at me like I have lost my mind. But this is great stuff! ::clapping::


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Inor said:


> Slippy & RPD -
> 
> You guys have made my day! Thank-you! Of course Mrs Inor is sitting across from me in the living room, looking at me like I have lost my mind. But this is great stuff! ::clapping::


Well, I don't know about you or Slippy, but I'm Certified!


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Since this thread seems to have degenerated into a thread on music inspired by psychotropic drugs...

Although I think Eric Clapton is a despicable human being, there is no disputing that boy can bend a git-fiddle. Here is one of my favorites:


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Well, I don't know about you or Slippy, but I'm Certified!


I don't need no stinkin' certification...


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