# Bugging Out: Views from the other side of the fence



## Erik (Apr 8, 2015)

I am a small local business owner, a farmer, a homesteader, and a prepper. My family earns it’s living running the family business in town. We farm and rent 240 acres plus keep a small herd of cattle. We have multiple sources of power and heat. I can feed, water and house at least 20 family members indefinitely, all off the grid if needs be. There is only one threat to all of this that I worry about and that is you.

You are a prepper with a bug out plan. You have a truck with a supply of food, some water, (I guarantee you that it’s not enough) some form of shelter, and the idea that you are bullet proof. You have 1000 rounds of some fmj bullets that you can’t possibly hunt with. (Have you ever considered that for every 2 bullets you shoot, one of them is going to come back at you? How many bullets can you dodge?) Mamy of you haven’t thought about what you are going to do once you get 10 miles from home. Where the hell do you think you are going? I got news for you; I own those woods. And I don’t like the idea of armed people setting up a “squatter’s camp” on my property. 

Let’s say that you set up on a piece of property near to my farm, but not on my property. You sit there for 2 weeks and then you start to run out of supplies. (I guarantee you that it will be fresh water first) See that farm over there? The one that seems quiet and abandoned. They might have what you need. But that farm belongs to my neighbor. They are the retired parents of a friend of mine. They have lived there all my life. I went to school with their kids. They are most likely still there. And they are scared to death of you. It doesn’t matter how you approach the farm; they will be scared. How are you going to get what you need from them?

Another 2 weeks goes by. (I have just given you credit for 30 days worth of supplies. More that the majority of you are going to have.) You are running out of most of your supplies. Now what are you going to do? If you say, “go home” you are a fool. If you thought your home would still be there after 30 days, you should have just stayed there. If things were so bad that you had to bug out, your home is gone. You need a new one. And that is the problem with bugging out. That house, that farm, that cabin you found; they all belong so someone else. And some day they are going to want it back.

Now let me suggest to you how you should have done it:

See that farm over there? The one that seems quiet and abandoned. That farm belongs to my neighbor. They are the retired parents of a friend of mine. They have lived there all my life. I went to school with their kids. But they are getting old and their kids have moved away. They can’t manage the homestead anymore and have decided to move into the local farm community so that they can be close to their friends and church. They would never sell the farm fields because they can rent them out and live off the income. 

But they don’t need the homestead, so they are going to put it up for sale. And this is where you come in. For a lot less than you would pay for a cabin on a lake, or a piece of hunting land, you can own your own farm. Depending on how much work a homestead needs, you can buy one cheap. You now have a place to “bug out’ to. You have a well, power if you want it, and if there were any standing buildings at all, you have shelter. Instead of hauling supplies, you have a place to keep them.

I know that the old homestead has sold and I am curious to know who bought it. It won’t take me long to ask around and get a few facts about you. During your first visit as a homestead owner, bring over your entire family and introduce yourself. I am going to ask you where you are from (I already know) what your name is (I already know) and what you do for a living (I probably already know that as well. It is a small town afterall). The one question I don’t know the answer to is why you bought the place. Tell me it’s your retreat from the city, like a cabin but cheaper. I’ll understand what you mean.

Every time you visit your new homestead, be sure to wave at me if you see me drive by, or pull into the yard and say hello if I am out working. It won’t take long and we may invite you over for a meal. Send me a Christmas card with a $20 gift certificate to a chain restaurant. If you see me working, stop and ask if I need any help. Chances are that I will say no, but be ready just in case. Be sure to ask me for advice once in a while. Give me your phone number and email and ask me to keep an eye on your place when you are gone. Lastly, always buy something in town when you visit. Visit the local hardware store, the grocery store, or the antique shop. Get people used to seeing your face and your vehicle.

In return, I will watch your place like a hawk. I am always driving by or working outside. If I see a light on, I have no problem driving over there to see what is going on. I will also say good things about you when I am talking with my neighbors. When things get tough, you won’t be a stranger. The town won’t turn you away. Help work on the farm and I will help keep you fed. Share your skills and you will always have something to trade. Most importantly, you and your family will have community and security: The 2 things that you can’t bug out with.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

While I'm sure there are "preppers" out there that fit your description, I haven't seen 
any on this forum. Do me a favor before you off shooting your mouth off because as 
you said your going to get some flak back. Why don't you hang out for a while and 
get to know us before you go off spouting a tirade that is kind of a holy than thou 
attitude. Get to know us first before you go making a blanket statement this is full
of $hit. 
Now I know what the ignore button is for.


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## Erik (Apr 8, 2015)

Perhaps my tone was a little strong. Please educate me. Why would a person leave their perfectly good home (bug out) if they thought they would be able to come back to it intact? If the threat is only temporary, wouldn't they be better off just riding it out at home? Flood, earthquake natural disaster? And if it's temporary, why not stay at a friend's or family's home or at the super 8? I would think that cash is easier to carry. Civil unrest? I would think that your home would have a better chance of surviving if you are in it. And if your bug out is permanent, how long will you be able to last with the supplies that you can carry on your back, your bike or in your truck? And where does one plan on setting up their new permanent residence? The local state forest? My suggestion was, and still is, that if you plan on bugging out, knowing the people in the area that you are relocating to is at least as important as knowing where you are going. And owning your retreat goes a long way towards doing that.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Realistically everyone should have a bug out plan as some things are out of your control. Tornadoes, hurricanes, flooding, wildfires, chemical spills, etc.

Those I know with reasonable bug out plans will head to someone's place that they know be it a friend or relative. But that goes both ways. 

So I agree with your OP being insulting from someone that doesn't even know any of us.

I have an anchored conex as a storm shelter that has plenty of solar. A rain catch & storage system Water filter system. Months of stored food that a lot of which I canned myself. My property is also on high ground. Plus have two portable generators. Well & septic system. But know there are things beyond my control that can force me out.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm not sure where you live but if SHTF is bad enough you could have the entire population of a city headed your way. I don't care how many rounds of ammo you have or how many people you have in your group but you can't take on a 10K plus people at once by yourself. Your scenario of sticking it out on your farm sounds great and I hope for your sake it goes exactly as you wrote it but chances are it won't go anything like that and if your are not able to adapt to whatever the situation becomes chances are the outcome will not be good. 

Afraid I have to agree with the others. You might want to take the time to get to know the people already on the forum. Most of us are friendly, knowledgeable people with bug in/out plans of our own. Welcome to the forum.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

When I read the title I could swear I was going to read a bug in don't run article. Then when reading about the old couple I really thought I read this before. 

Sorry but not everyone can buy a cabin in the woods OR a farm. Don't get me wrong I have bought a lot of raw land, worked it with tractors and shovels to make it farmland and yes....I lease to my neighbors that row crop ground. But my circumstances are due to a loving father that bought the original parcels for his 3 sons in 1974. One son died, one went nuts and now I got all three and my own fourth. With out that early prep farming wasn't possible for me. It's not for all. My God it use to cost me $100 round trip in fuel just to get to my ranch. Some are lucky to spend a $100 a month on preps...


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Sounds like you may have had run ins with hardcore bugouts.

There are Bug Out boards and Prepper boards - this is more of a prepper board. I've been on boards where nutjobs talk about looting their neighbors and similar spooge but that writ doesn't rule here.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

You assume facts not in evidence. ( I always wanted to say that. ) Shouldn't you have taken the time to know us here and what this forum is about before you go off on us and post tirade? As you didn't take the time to learn about us, I won't take the time to explain our intentions or our general thoughts on prepping to you.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Many of us are rural and living at our homestead or farm or retreat. Some here are multi generational farmers like you. Others are giving country life a go for the first time. Some have been living "in between" self sufficiency and suburban life. Some are as you describe and some people are urban apartment dwellers. And many on this forum are freakin' hardcore Warriors that most likely will take what they want or need and you will have no say in their decisions. And of course, there are many that fit other "categories" so don't assume anything about any of us.

Just an FYI


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Here's a thought--GFY


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

paraquack said:


> While I'm sure there are "preppers" out there that fit your description, I haven't seen
> any on this forum. Do me a favor before you off shooting your mouth off because as
> you said your going to get some flak back. Why don't you hang out for a while and
> get to know us before you go off spouting a tirade that is kind of a holy than thou
> ...


 Having a bad day?? I happen to agree with what the guy is saying. I've seen posts about living off the land and getting out of the city on the forum. We all know that living off the rural folks is what's really going to happen. Very few people can just move out into the woods and survive without support. In a SHTF it will be a free for all. 
I KNOW in my area this is how the neighborhood works. You don't think that the locals will all just run up with hugs and kisses. For the new liability that just moved in from the city. 
Good job Erik and welcome to the forum. Your bringing out some valid points that people just don't want to hear about. People get upset when their plans get exposed.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

Well dude I hear you, and don't think you language be strong- I have always said if you don't have someplace to bug out to your a refugee and way to many apocalyptic, doomsday, whatchamordoodlemofloppyer's, people think that they just be wondering around like nomads living off the land - I myself have secured said location a long time ago it was the first thing I did and the land cost me a whole whopping 5 grand and now I got food plots a 5 room cabin(off grid as in no electric) that I built with help from my brother-in law rain catch barrels and my best friend dug out a well by hand- by hand I tell you!!! and installed a old fashioned hand pump on it. I can not explained the amount of peace it gives me and my family to have a place to go even to just get away for a weekend and unplug.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

It's not a bug out plan if you don't have a place to bug out to. Very few will be able to live very long by just running to the wilds to live out of a pack and off the land. If a person is fortunate enough to own a "retreat" what does it matter to you what they do with their land? Or if they want to keep to themselves? They just might have an aversion to folks who think they know everything.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

tango said:


> Here's a thought--GFY


To the OP, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to share the sympathies expressed by my friend tango.

You don't know me. You don't know what I'm capable of.
You don't have the slightest clue how things will actually go down.
When the hungry hordes, who had no plan at all, come your way, you damn well better have your own bug out plan.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

not too surprised .... read plenty of these types of postings .... planning on setting up sniper posts and shooting everyone coming thru .... occasionally someone thinks staked heads around the perimeter is necessary .... all good until they shoot the wrong person some morning .... an innocent local is cutting thru the countryside skirting the farmplaces and presenting no danger to anyone .... next morning there's a 50 man armed posse representing what's left of the local law .... too many unnecessary shootings and bodies and now a grandson, brother or niece is snipered .... 

just a word of warning .... your idea of a WROL and other people's could be detrimental to you living ....


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## Big Country1 (Feb 10, 2014)

While I feel you are jumping to conclusions about us here, I do agree. Someone thinking they are going to run off into the woods, (YouTube Rambo) probably has limited skills. (obviously lacking critical thinking skills) Its best to have a "pre-determined" location to bug-out to.

Not everyone can afford a homestead, farm, or a cabin, etc.. to just throw money at though. I don't judge my fellow prepper's for not being able to afford a "vacation" or "get away" home. Being prepared is a mind set as well as the obvious, and they're 1 step ahead of the masses.

I was lucky enough to inherit a hunting cabin from my grandfather, and the acreage it resides on. Without that, I wouldn't be able to just go drop money on a cabin "just in case."


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Erik said:


> Perhaps my tone was a little strong. Please educate me. Why would a person leave their perfectly good home (bug out) if they thought they would be able to come back to it intact?


Short answer: No one in his right mind would do that. What gives you the idea anyone would be so self destructive?


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## Big Country1 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> To the OP, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to share the sympathies expressed by my friend tango.
> 
> You don't know me. You don't know what I'm capable of.
> You don't have the slightest clue how things will actually go down.
> When the hungry hordes, who had no plan at all, come your way, you damn well better have your own bug out plan.


Agreed, Nobody can foresee what the future will hold. All we can do is prep for the worst, and hope for the best. I don't think it's the preppers so much you'd have to worry about, but the mindless hordes of the ill-prepared, with nothing left too lose.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I for one plan to bug in and leave only if forced to. Which, may be the case living in a large city. However, I have a planned location and several plans in place for getting there. Not saying a lot of people in the country won't have to deal with unprepared. They will, as we all will. I am Just sayin, perhaps, you should have bothered to know us before you accuse us of invading your property.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Reading this post and the subsequent replies brings to mind the old adage "take what you need and leave the rest " ... advice, of course, not supplies 

Tone aside, he offers an interesting and alternative retreat suggestion with "RFD 101" advice on making friends. I'm damn sure some will benefit from reading this even if they don't speak up and say so. Not everyone is as squared away as the regular members here.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Erik said:


> Perhaps my tone was a little strong. Please educate me. Why would a person leave their perfectly good home (bug out) if they thought they would be able to come back to it intact? If the threat is only temporary, wouldn't they be better off just riding it out at home? Flood, earthquake natural disaster? And if it's temporary, why not stay at a friend's or family's home or at the super 8? I would think that cash is easier to carry. Civil unrest? I would think that your home would have a better chance of surviving if you are in it. And if your bug out is permanent, how long will you be able to last with the supplies that you can carry on your back, your bike or in your truck? And where does one plan on setting up their new permanent residence? The local state forest? My suggestion was, and still is, that if you plan on bugging out, knowing the people in the area that you are relocating to is at least as important as knowing where you are going. And owning your retreat goes a long way towards doing that.


Some of us already live in little towns where we can bug-in for as long as we need to. Some of us own our own bugout locations. Some of us are into permaculture, gardening. Some of us have more rounds of hunting ammo than you have even seen in your life and/or the reloading supplies, equipment and expertise to make it so. Some of us have been living the lifestyle for many years. Some of us (not me, but some of us) are ex-military who've lived through hell and actually know what they are talking about when it comes to defending a property, or dealing with people who need dealt with to protect their families. Some of us are far down the road to self sufficiency. Some of us have 5 or more ways to purify water, and won't have a single issue with "running out of clean water".

You do present an interesting scenario and raise valid points, but please don't put me and my wife into your "royal you" category. We don't want your farm, we won't be visiting your farm, and frankly we don't care even the slightest bit about your farm because it has nothing to do with us.

If you actually run a farm, you are going to be up #$&% creek if an EMP attack hits, because you are not going to be able to get fuel, feed, and your crop to market. You are going to need farm hands, and lots of them, and you are going to need somebody to sell what you grow to. What are you going to plant next year? You have cattle? Fine. What are you going to do with the steers? Bottom line, you've got your own worries.

You also need to worry about raiders. We do not condone raiders or raider talk here, but we recognize that the problem will exist. But I'm not going to be one of those raiders, so again you can remove me from your "royal we".


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

tango said:


> Here's a thought--GFY


+1:smile:

Pretty narrow thinking.
I am rural, not planning on invading your space.
I am bugging in.
You do have a valid point, but do not come in here and think all here are inept inner city thugs foaming at the mouth.
Sounds like you need more guns and ammo and better fields of fire.
Your summation of the members here just plain sucks.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Ok the other side of the fence because I actually plan to bug out. First lets be clear this isnt a back pack and firearm bug out truck and trailer for me. I have spent months living outdoors or in austere conditions and have planned for it 6-9 month bug out. I have 12 months food and about 2 weeks of water packed and ready tools to improve my conditions where ever I am, as well as supplies, and heirloom seeds to sustain me. Ideally I could be Bugged out indefinitely acquiring water is a task but I have a BOL in the middle of Nowhere( Yes it is owned by someone but that someone is a logging company that has thousands of acres) and I know where to find it and how to purify it. After the initial craziness subsides I will return to my very new farm I started and resume operations. I do this for security because you always have to put yourself in your enemies shoes and my head, it scares me. I guarantee that any organization will soon make a concentrated effort to secure food and water. It is very hard to hide something that is already established. I rely on very few electronics because of EMP worries but what electronics I do have are protected and contain a libary of info and one of those is Maps.

To me its all about security If I didnt believe it I wouldnt preach it but IN MY OPINION it only takes about 72 hrs to assess a place of interest and develop a plan to defeat it. Thats why you wont find me for the first 6-9 months until everything dies down and clear lines begin to reestablish. Also since your bugging in have you thought about where the closest military installation is that is an organization that could survive WROL and will be looking for serious assets like a 240 acre farm. I could vouch for my work place when SHTF that armory isnt going to be full anymore.


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## Raven (Jan 17, 2014)

I have read, and re-read this post. I guess that I am not taking it as an op-ed piece directed at anyone here but more an educational conversation of some good things to think about. I also feel that way about some of the responses. For those that say not everyone has the money to buy a place to go to, I would suggest that you meet some people within a reasonable distance that own the land but have few or no people to help defend it and try to form a cohesive group with mutual aid. Mr Raven and I have tried to seek out and filter through some other preppers that we have met to no avail. One person that we thought looked very good after much time getting to know them, had a kid that suddenly declared that he wanted to find our XXX because his Dad told him that it was hidden somewhere. This person showed no signs of being a gossip, a loud mouth or a narc for lack of a better word. He was very discrete with us but apparently not so much with his family. Lesson learned. We have land with natural water. We have farm animals, a business that offers necessities and can easily go from cash to barter if need be. We have many preps in place and skills to offer, but we are getting older and would need help running and defending our place if TSHTF. As for the idea that you can't hold of a city full of people alone, that is true but you can make it hard on people. I guess when it all comes down to it, we all have to die sometime. I'd like it to be later but I sure don't want to die of apathy, misplaced trust or without trying to defend what belongs to me or members of my group. I appreciate what you wrote Eric and take it to heart. We pray for neighbors just like you!


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

sounds like OP hit a note with some of yah will all the don't judge me before you know me attitude- well you may be right, I don't think he was pointing a finger at anyone. the most common response I have heard over the years is, I don't have the financial resources to acquire a piece of property - how much did you spend on all those fancy firearms , cell phones, cell phone bills TV bill etc.? I just saw a old house on 3 or so acres out in the middle of some wheat fields for like 13 grand. well I bought mine when I was 15 working under the table on a horseradish farm all summer long 12hours a day just to get the down payment I made $2.25 an hour with no overtime but the farmer did give me a end of the season bonus like 500 bucks or something which at the time I was shocked, and did give me lunch every other day -now I understand "the you lived with mom and pop and had no expenses" and your right!! but I was also making less than an adult would and doing an adults work. I had walk 6 or so miles each way unless pop gave me a ride on his way to work and yes when I told him what I was working for he though I was in his own words "crazier than owl crap". Was I buying the land for a bug out location? nope, I just wanted a piece of ground to call my own. I am not trying or saying the average Joe pepper like me and you is out to raid and pillage, squat and shop, but over the years I have heard a lot of people just nonchalantly saying I'll just walk around taking what I need from who ever and blasting anyone who try's to take my stuff. most were on forums like this one, especially from the 2012 crowd. I am sorry if I offended anyone, I hope you accept my apologies. I don't know the OP but I think he or she has the right to speak their thoughts after all.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

hold on a minute, let me put my rubber butt on cause I think I'm about to get an azz chewing.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I purchased about 30 acres, have built an 18 foot deep 1/3 acre fishing pond on it and put up a cabin for less money than three of the 12 vehicles in my work's parking lot costs. 

The OP is right, there are TONS of rural homesteads for sale in the Midwest that could be bought for a song. Having said that, for most people this is very "out of the box" thinking. New trucks are far more important to most people than having a place to bug out to that you own. We make our choices. I drive a 1998 truck with 279K miles on it and own a BOL/homestead. I think it's a pretty good plan, for ME. You do what you think is best for you.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Well his point should be made to all the people who are NOT preppers. Preppers are the last people he needs to worry about.

Nobody is planning to wind up homeless in the woods. Homeless in the woods will be the result of not planning and not preparing.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

One of the pillars of my prep plan is establishing trade with those like the OP.
Reestablishing safe transportation.
Communications and mail.
Local law enforcement.
Anything that will convince urbanites to stand their ground and not flood the countryside in desperate starving hordes.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Diver said:


> Well his point should be made to all the people who are NOT preppers. Preppers are the last people he needs to worry about.
> 
> Nobody is planning to wind up homeless in the woods. Homeless in the woods will be the result of not planning and not preparing.


I know of a group planning to form a "convoy" that travels around looking for small communities they can take over.

They appear to be a bunch of idiots who won't survive long so I don't give them much beyond passing notice.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Chances are in a situation that forces people from their homes and they find your area attractive... the Zombie ninja mutant biker gangs will also find your area attractive.

I found your Original Post to be long winded and boring and frankly it was hard to read and I think you may have issues...

I will most likely put you on ignore also


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Anthonyx said:


> One of the pillars of my prep plan is establishing trade with those like the OP.
> Reestablishing safe transportation.
> Communications and mail.
> Local law enforcement.
> Anything that will convince urbanites to stand their ground and not flood the countryside in desperate starving hordes.


In all honesty the time to start that is NOW. Pick a spot and start developing relationships. Make weekend trips there. Go to church there from time to time. Shop in the local store, get people used to seeing you.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I want to write a 12 paragraph rebuttal to the OP but honestly... it is a waste.. 

a true prepper already has a plan in the back of his mind of a a few places to go IF he/she needs to leave home/camp/ etc...

I plan on staying home BUT if I need to I have a few places in mind... why a few places... because I am flexible and do not know what will happen. 

I do know that if I bug out, I will not be moving into a place next to other people - unless I know them very well...and not somebody i saw at church 3 years ago


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> In all honesty the time to start that is NOW. Pick a spot and start developing relationships. Make weekend trips there. Go to church there from time to time. Shop in the local store, get people used to seeing you.


What you are doing now is what I did 30 years ago Pep.

I did a bugout when Ford was presidumb - I mean the cabin-in-the-woods rambo go-moonhappy-in-6-months bugout BTDT.

Everyone in the county knows my underwear size but not that I'm a prepper.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Anthonyx said:


> Everyone in the county knows my underwear size but not that I'm a prepper.


Sounds like an update to your intro post is in order...
:mrgreen:


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Do be a good lad and paste it for me.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Chances are in a situation that forces people from their homes and they find your area attractive... the *Zombie ninja mutant biker gangs* will also find your area attractive.


Brings back memories of the MZB's from "Light's Out."


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Anthonyx said:


> Do be a good lad and paste it for me.


Not a mod, and you've yet to share. I'm afraid my hands are tied in the matter.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Many of us are rural and living at our homestead or farm or retreat......................... And many on this forum are freakin' hardcore Warriors that most likely will take what they want or need and you will have no say in their decisions.
> 
> Just an FYI


Now, Now, Slippy!
The VA says I'm "well" now.
:armata_PDT_12:


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Hemi45 said:


> Brings back memories of the MZB's from "Light's Out."


yes but mine are NINJA's also


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