# Preppers view on GUARD/SURVIVALCOMPANION First post to thread.



## CORB3IL45 (Jan 30, 2014)

What is your opinion on training a dog to protect your bugout location? I have seen many people who have trained dogs; mastiffs, dobermans, ect.. To protect your location and alert you of impending danger? Opinions? Would trained guard dogs and or trained attack dogs for travel be a worthy investment for protection and or even intimidation? Particularly for the unarmed, they would stand no chance to large trained alert dogs, even armed, if unaware of a guard dog while trespassing could easily be flanked and taken down by a trained dog. Opinions? All answers appreciated.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Guard dog & attack dog are two different things. $5-10,000 difference in price of training also. For most, a pair of guard dogs would work best. Spy/neuter them. A male & a female with an age difference would normally work best. Once a guard dog knows its property boundries they will normally patrol several times per day.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Even a terrier can alert you to intruders. But they lack intimidation.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

My "attack chiuaha" will alert with a very mean sounding bark, while she is hi-tailing it to cover.
I think "attack dogs" are a little "hollywood". I mean that, in normal times, (which we are in), its a liability to have a dog that bites. In "worl without law", hell yeah, I want CUJO.
I have seen some excellently trained dogs, both Police and civilian.
A friend had two mixed breed dogs, they would do some amazing stuff. He could call them over, put a ritz cracker on their nose, tell them "wait", and they would wait until he said eat.
I guess it boils down to training. I have my dog trained only to heel on a leash, come when called, and kinda listen. The only other thing I really want to teach her is if I give her the command to stop/silence, I want her to stop.
Welcome to the forum.


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## CORB3IL45 (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks guys! 20 Minutes and im already more informed and i feel welcomed!! The specific reason why I asked is because I have a friend who took me to his Uncles property out in North West Michigan, and he has two bull terrier mix guard dogs who protect his 8 acres to an extreme. Even armed I would be very weary sneaking on to his property as they are dark colored and do not bark only watch and supposedly "reprehend". Luckily for my I came into the yards in a truck with my friend. It just seemed that to have dogs like these would be very very valuable as a protective asset. (sorry if the posts seem hard to read or complicated, not exactly seasoned at talking in forums)


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Sounds like you want working breed dogs such as doberman, mastiff, rottweiler, etc. Also sounds like you need some dog familiarization. Find a local rescue or humane society & volunteer to learn about the different breeds. That will give you a better idea of what you would want & fit into your needs.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Owner needs trained before the dog. If you don't know what you are doing the best trained dogs in the world wouldn't do you any good. A good rescue will be able to hook you up with what they call a first time owner dog.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

I think Guard Dogs would serve some useful purposes. Lets face it a dog is more adept than the average human at detecting things long before we do. Properly trained they could be one heck of an asset serving as a "early warning system" and alerting you so you could be the "Surprisor" instead of the "Surprisee". This could take a lot of training though. Personally I wouldn't want the dog to Bark, I would want it to growl loud enough for me to hear but not the approaching uninvited guest. I would also think it would take a lot of time to train a dog to not accept food that wasn't put in its dish by anyone other than you to prevent them from being so easily poisoned by a "Tainted Treat" tossed to it.

Such a dog would be a considerable investment of time though. And while that might be a worthy investment, anyone approaching your shelter or area would definitely be quick to neutralize your dog the second they figured out that you had one.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

If you aren't willing to put the time daily into a dog then don't get one. There is the cost of medical care as well as food. And there is nothing at Walmart I would feed any of my dogs.

I want my dogs to bark at passing vehicles. Lets them know this is not a place they want to try to break into.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Welcome.

Dogs are pack animals and if you are not familiar with how packs work, your choice in dogs may result in you being the subordinate to an Alpha dog. Don't be your dog's bitch.


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## KYPrepper (Jan 17, 2014)

Slippy is so right, my fiance and I have two Rottweilers, one male(father) one female(daughter) both full-blooded German. Trooper(daddy) is the Alpha dog for sure, but he know's I'm his master. He rules Girlie(daughter) and Jody(fiance). He would never harm them(I don't think) but he will sure let both of them know if he ain't happy. Me, on the other hand, can do the ritz cracker trick as well, only usually it's with a piece of steak(trooper doesn't like crackers,chips, any table food except meat haha) and he will sit there and create two inches of slobber before he'll eat it without permission. Main reason for the post, I've been a dog owner all my life of a few different species of dog. Rottweilers, IMO, are one of the most loyal, smart, protective, and boy can they look and sound intimidating(and my two will back their barks up with a hell of a bite). We've all seen how mean they look with the spiked collar chained up to an old semi axle in the junk yard. Imagine after SHTF, walking up to a camp site or home, looking to cause some trouble, and seeing the same mean ass dog, only no spiked collar, no chain, and no axle holding him back. Loved all my dogs equally, right now just got the two rotties and after they're gone(hopefully a long long time from now, even though that freakin Blue dog food is expensive as hell, I still want my pup pups healthy), Rottweiler will be what I get. But both of them are taken care of just like their mommy and daddy when it comes to being prepared for a disaster, and I certainly feel sorry for anyone wishing to rob or pillage my supplies or harm me or the misses with my kids in tow.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Just about any dog you can mention has better hearing and a sense of smell then you do, and will bark to let you know that something or someone is near your home unless you train them not to. Even a small dog can be handy to alert you in the middle of the night that there is someone out there.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

My experience with dogs is not just personal dogs, but also in the army where I worked sentry, patrol and narcotics detection dogs. Figured I'd explain my past, so you'd understand my view.

As has already been stated, you and your dog need to be trained. If you do not know how to work your dog, your dog will work you.

You and your dog need to spend a lot of time together. A LOT of time. When my sentry dog alerted, I knew if it was a hedgehog, a deer or a human, by the way he carried himself and pulled on the leash, and I knew this in the pitch black of nighttime in the forest. You need to spend so much time with him that you know what he is telling you.

As also previously stated, your dog is just like you; he operates properly when given a good diet and proper medical care. Neither of which will be found at Walmart or the Dollar General.

Choosing the right breed is important, too. For example, Dobermans are amazing to watch when they are working in pairs, but it isn't the breed if you are going to get just one. On the other hand, shepherd breeds work best alone. The Belgian Malinois breed was the best I worked as they have more energy than you can imagine, are very intelligent and have one heck of a personality. Be advised, however, you must spend a lot of time with them. It must be a part of your family. Otherwise, do not put it through the torment of loneliness.

My way of thinking, nowadays, is I do not want a dog. Dogs can be a little unpredictable, and I do not want a dog to bark when I would prefer others to not know where we are. One of us will be outside, playing the part of the sentry dog.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Dobies, rotties, mastiffs,shepherds.....what about a stealth dog?.why hasn't anyone thought about a big lab or lab mix or border collie that has been trained to protect?.perfect stealth dog.hardly anyone would think that mellow looking labbie would be able to protect you when you give a simple command?.....my dog,unfortunately has been loved all her life as a pet but as a 50 lb border collie/lab mix anybody would be very surprised if they encountered her if she had been trained correctly.


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## KYPrepper (Jan 17, 2014)

You should see how mellow my rotts get when they get into the herb garden....in the closet....


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## CORB3IL45 (Jan 30, 2014)

well like i said my buddies uncle has bull terrier mixes on his property, and those thing are silent killers, so ive been told. they dont bark,not sure how affective that would be, but i guess thats part of the breed, but being blind sided by one of those beast would scare just bout anyone away, if they survived


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## Rob Roy (Nov 6, 2013)

Well, crud. I'm always late to the party. It seems the question has been answered repeatedly, but I'm going to go ahead and dog-pile (I swear no pun untended... that would be a horrible pun completely pre-drained of any humor... like a cured-pun) on. Some excerpts from a favorite prepper book of mine:

'People often use "guard dog" and "watch dog" interchangeably. The reality is, that is sort of like putting security guards and S.W.A.T. members in the same group.'

'Watch dogs are part of your Early Warning System. Their job is to alert you to potential danger, primarily through barking. Watch dogs need not be large or strong. They won't be physically protecting your family, though of course they may try to if push comes to shove.'

'One thing to consider about guard dogs is the amount of training they require.'

'Often, an animal fully trained as a guard dog cannot also be a "family dog". It can be just too difficult for some canines to differentiate between the two roles, which puts family members, particularly young children, at risk.'

[ to give credit where it's due, the book is 'Prepper's Home Defense' by Jim Cobb ]


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> If you aren't willing to put the time daily into a dog then don't get one. There is the cost of medical care as well as food. And there is nothing at Walmart I would feed any of my dogs.
> 
> I want my dogs to bark at passing vehicles. Lets them know this is not a place they want to try to break into.


I totally agree with HuntingHawk, most of the people I see at Wal-mart have too much fat on them to feed to my dogs.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Use the experience of rescuers to your advantage & adopt a dog. A senior teen or young adult will give years of pleasure & loyalty. By volunteering you will gain the years of experience from the rescuers. You will learn how to train a dog in basic commands, the right way for that breed. You might even learn proper temperment testing for the breed. Most of all, you will find the right dog for you. First thing I do with any new dog is find out if its treat or ball motivated.

Certain breeds have a natural protective instinct such as pitbulls, dobermans, & rotties. And that you can use to your advantage.


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## longrider (Mar 25, 2013)

I agree with most posts here. You want a loyal dog and most will be loyal. I wouldn't get more than two dogs, as three or more is a "pack". Unless you and your amily can truly be alpha and beta, the dogs could turn. Even family dogs. That being said, it is easy to train a dog not to bark. It does take patience and time, but so does almost everything you do, that involves prepping.

I do like mixed breeds, as they seem to be more hardy - health-wise - than pure breds. I like the suggestion of volunteering at the local dog shelter. You get to have contact with a lot of breeds, and you get to know some good people. Don't believe them 100% on what they will "guess" a mixed bred dog is made up of. They often are way out in left field on their guesses. If you really want to know, ask a vet. Or a very knowledgeable dog handler. One who has a lot of experience with a lot of breeds. Just don't let the bleeding hearts know you might eat the dog, in an emergency/last ditch situation. You can even foster dogs for them, and get some great hands-on training experience. Just basic obedience is good starter training.

I recommend the book "How to be your dog's best friend" by the Monks of New Skeet. I got mine at 1/2 Price Books for under $6.00. That is a great way to learn of dogs' temperments, etc. I will look at home, at some other books that I really like also. When I want to learn, I get or barrow as many books as possible. That's me. But that first book is very good. Research a breed that you might want to get. I bought a book on pit bulls. I was thinking of getting one, but now am not so sure, after reading that book. Do your research.

My mean sounding dog is aging, and I really don't think he'd back up his bark anyway. I've been looking for another dog. ? Rescue Me! ? ANIMALS FOR ADOPTION ? Dogs, Cats & More is a good place to look, but again, they are full of s&*% on what they guess the breeds are, making up a mut. But you can sometimes find a good healthy, house-trained dog for free on that site.

Good luck. I have had dogs all of my life, and just couldn't live without at least one. Wouldn't want to. A good dog, that you spend time with every day, will be good back up for you, even if you think it's the most mellow dog out there. Oh, I would not get a mastiff, as their life-span is so short, they are heavy, so less agile, and if it came to them making a quick dash? Let's just say they aren't made for sprinting. Unless they are back-up to a lighter, faster dog. Then I'd think about getting one.

Oh, and welcome.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Just like vehicle models, there is no one dog breed that fits all. I average doing about 10 home checks per year & often what people think they want is just wrong for their situation.

Working breed dogs need mental work as well as physical.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I have always had dogs and I learned very young that they are not "family" but instead part of the pack. There is a difference and if properly trained will understand that they are the lowest on the chain of command.

My dogs will never bolt out the door when I open it, they never pull on the leash, and when I let someone into the house - even if they have never met them they will stay where ever they are unless I tell them to act. They don't bark - they growl to say "I hear or smell something" and then if I tell them to alert they are ready to respond to my verbal or hand communications. If I ignore them after looking then they will lose interest until something makes them more aware. It is easy to train a herding dog to do this but hunting dogs are a bit more self reliant and you have to work at it. They eat after we do, they go out the door after all the people do and they stand slightly behind and to the side of me when we are out. I can tell them to go play and they can leave for hours and come back. When we go walking they stay in their place behind and beside me. If there is a threat they watch me for any signal to act but don't move out of position. When we hunt and I am stopped they lie down and remain motionless. If I take a prone position they are at my waist quiet and still. When the gun goes off they get excited but wait for me to move. They are used to me "talking to them" after a shot to give the animal time to die. When it is time they follow behind. If the critter moved after the shot I get tell them to find it and off they go. When they find it one (usually the smaller) will come and take me to the spot. 
I work with my dogs from the time they are weened letting them know with the strictest of discipline what is and is not acceptable and those things never change - dogs must be very sure of where the lines are and what happens if they cross those lines. Consistency and a system of reward and discipline is essential for dogs to be comfortable in their place in the pack. The dogs know that when a person comes in my home they have to be submissive to the point of pain because my grand children will sometimes maul the poor dogs trying to show their affection. The kids know if the dog yelps it is time to back off. If the dog growls at anyone in the house without a command they are instantly on their backs with their neck pinned to the floor until they go limp. This teaches them it is unacceptable - I am the leader and everyone else is ahead of them in the pecking order.

If I am not paying attention to them they are happy to lie on the floor or on the porch and wait for me to do something. It's sort of funny but the second I move their eyes follow me. They want to be ready for any command whether it is verbal or a motion or body language.

I love my dogs - every one that I have ever had but they are not family members, they can't be family members because they are dogs and live by a different set of rules. To be secure they have to be submissive to humans. It is stressful to be an alpha when people don't follow the rules of the pack. If your dog jumps all over you when you come home after being away for a time (trip to the store or a weekend away) then you have a problem. That dog is reprimanding you for leaving HIS pack. My dogs just lie there while watching me intently when I come back. They know that the alpha can come and go as he pleases but that they have to have permission to leave.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

PaulS said:


> I have always had dogs and I learned very young that they are not "family" but instead part of the pack. There is a difference and if properly trained will understand that they are the lowest on the chain of command.
> 
> My dogs will never bolt out the door when I open it, they never pull on the leash, and when I let someone into the house - even if they have never met them they will stay where ever they are unless I tell them to act. They don't bark - they growl to say "I hear or smell something" and then if I tell them to alert they are ready to respond to my verbal or hand communications. If I ignore them after looking then they will lose interest until something makes them more aware. It is easy to train a herding dog to do this but hunting dogs are a bit more self reliant and you have to work at it. They eat after we do, they go out the door after all the people do and they stand slightly behind and to the side of me when we are out. I can tell them to go play and they can leave for hours and come back. When we go walking they stay in their place behind and beside me. If there is a threat they watch me for any signal to act but don't move out of position. When we hunt and I am stopped they lie down and remain motionless. If I take a prone position they are at my waist quiet and still. When the gun goes off they get excited but wait for me to move. They are used to me "talking to them" after a shot to give the animal time to die. When it is time they follow behind. If the critter moved after the shot I get tell them to find it and off they go. When they find it one (usually the smaller) will come and take me to the spot.
> I work with my dogs from the time they are weened letting them know with the strictest of discipline what is and is not acceptable and those things never change - dogs must be very sure of where the lines are and what happens if they cross those lines. Consistency and a system of reward and discipline is essential for dogs to be comfortable in their place in the pack. The dogs know that when a person comes in my home they have to be submissive to the point of pain because my grand children will sometimes maul the poor dogs trying to show their affection. The kids know if the dog yelps it is time to back off. If the dog growls at anyone in the house without a command they are instantly on their backs with their neck pinned to the floor until they go limp. This teaches them it is unacceptable - I am the leader and everyone else is ahead of them in the pecking order.
> ...


EXCELLENT PaulS, EXCELLENT.

I think any dog can be trained to be an "Alert Dog" but their are certain things inherent in their breed that makes others better as Protection dogs. Denton mentioned the Belgian Malinois, a wonderful breed and if I was to get a personal protection dog for me and me alone, it would be the Belgian Malinois or a German Shepherd. For a family or your immediate grounds, Dobermans, 2 or more, are the way to go in my opinion.

The Border Collie, (we have one as you can tell from my avatar) is a great companion and wants to inherently keep the herd together. So fun and smart but not as a personal protection animal.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I prefer hunting dogs. My favorite is the Black Mouth Cur. They are a medium to large dog (in my book) but they work well in pairs or groups. They have the courage of Achilles and the power to back it up.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Once again jumping in late. I'm a prior MWD Kennel Master/Trainer/Handler. I currently have 2 prior MWD's at the house. 1's a Belgian, 1's a dutch shepherd. What are you really wanting to know?

Hell, my avatar is me and my 2nd bomb dog Donka at an undisclosed location in the desert. Was 112* that day...we were under a semi's trailer trying to cool off...


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Some good info in this thread. Some not so much. Some folks take themselves entirely to seriously. 
A dogs a good idea. I have a couple. Have for the past 25 years. All dogs are watchdogs. It is expensive and time consuming to turn one into a guard dog. Not worth it IMHO. A gun will always be better. A medium size to large size breed iis a good choice. I would discourage rescue dogs and pound puppies as a choice. You just don't know what kind of mentall trauma the dog has gone through with previous owners. Remember, there's a REASON they are in the pound or rescue. Get a puppy. That way the dog knows you from its earliest days of life. 
My couple of pennies.


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Any dog that isn't old, fat and spoiled is probably an asset.

We have run Great Pyrenees with our goats. Believe it or not, they come in two flavors, the perimeter dog and the flock dog. One gets up every morning and looks around his perimeter to see if anything bad has entered his space. The other stays with the flock all the time. It's fun to watch. And they do it without a lick of training. And you don't know which one you'll get when you buy them. It's just in their DNA, far as I can tell. They obey rudimentary commands like no, sit, etc. Both of them are also fiercely protective of us, particulary my daughter. When she was young, do not spank her in the goat pen. They both did not appreciate it.

We also have a professionally trained black lab. He obviously obeys commands alot better. When you enforce them. That is the key, is to enforce the Alpha dog mentality to them all the time, every time or they will try to become the Alpha.

I don't think the average person can effectively use a military grade working dog on a daily basis. There is too much time involved. But I do believe that any dog with rudimentary training is a valuable asset.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Just Sayin' said:


> I don't think the average person can effectively use a military grade working dog on a daily basis. There is too much time involved. But I do believe that any dog with rudimentary training is a valuable asset.


I respectfully disagree. Once I teach the handler the basics of handling, keeping the dog trained is easy. It's just the initial time spent can be around 2-4 weeks. Both of my dogs are fully law enforcement (attack, building search, scout, detection) trained. With a few instructions to my ex-wives (had 2...don't ask) they were able to fully run the dogs without a single problem. In fact, it was quite empowering for them to have dogs that would attack on command. I noticed that they were much more eager to bring the dogs to run errands. LOL!


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## ordnance21xx (Jan 29, 2014)

Dogs can be taken out by a shotgun. Then what do you do? there good for a warning or first alart. don't forget you have to feed them!



MOLON LABE


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

dogs can be taken out with a 22 but most thieves want to get in and out without unnecessary noise. If it's an all out attack then you will be warned of it long before they get to the dogs. 

Taking out a dog with a gun would require skills that most people simply do not have. The dog can move three times as fast as a human, hear see and smell the human long before the human knows where he is. The dog is a small target moving rapidly and initiates fear reactions in most people.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

PaulS said:


> dogs can be taken out with a 22 but most thieves want to get in and out without unnecessary noise. If it's an all out attack then you will be warned of it long before they get to the dogs.
> 
> Taking out a dog with a gun would require skills that most people simply do not have. The dog can move three times as fast as a human, hear see and smell the human long before the human knows where he is. The dog is a small target moving rapidly and initiates fear reactions in most people.


A few years back, I was starting work at 5:30am which meant I had to be up at 2:30 and out the door to beat traffic.

One morning, as I came out of the gate (I parked the truck outside of the gate for easier leaving) a rabid dog was on attack mode. I slammed the gate shut, and headed inside. Called the authorities.

Dog left and I was able to get to my truck and go to work. Animal control never showed up. Next morning I headed out with my .22 and the dog did the same thing. He was waiting around the side of the gate, and lunged at me as soon as I stepped out.

3 .22lr to the head and he just slowed down. I managed to get inside the gate, and put a well placed shot through an ear into his skull.

That did it.

My point? While a .22 CAN stop a dog, I'd want a bit more firepower, which is noise. I think that any would be robber would be smarter to bring a steak or bologna and distract the dog. I've only known ONE dog that wasn't distracted by treats. Hell, even my Sophie will be your best friend for a treat. It doesn't help that my neighbors feed my dogs over the fence


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

PaulS said:


> dogs can be taken out with a 22 but most thieves want to get in and out without unnecessary noise. If it's an all out attack then you will be warned of it long before they get to the dogs.
> 
> Taking out a dog with a gun would require skills that most people simply do not have. The dog can move three times as fast as a human, hear see and smell the human long before the human knows where he is. The dog is a small target moving rapidly and initiates fear reactions in most people.


This is why the poodle shooter............... Excuse me, the AR platform, was developed. You have 30 rounds of small low recoil ammo in a semi auto, and if your lucky and have the money, a fully auto platform. ::rambo:::lol:
I'm sorry, I'm just venting some aggravation from another thread.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Shot of my pups. The shepherd doesn't listen worth a lick. She will sit for food, and won't eat until I "release" her to eat. BUT she is first alert. She only barks when something is amiss. If someone is walking in front of the house, she's growling or barking.

The pup doesn't bark as much as the shepherd. But she's starting to. She is the one that knows sit, stay, high five, high ten, speak, lay down, wait, "over there" (if I want her to check something out) back up, and most recently, PLANT YOUR ASS!!! Means stay there unless I say to move. Stay works, but stay is for going in/out of doors and gates and short distances. Plant your ass means grow roots and stay lol


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Smokin04 said:


> I respectfully disagree. Once I teach the handler the basics of handling, keeping the dog trained is easy. It's just the initial time spent can be around 2-4 weeks. Both of my dogs are fully law enforcement (attack, building search, scout, detection) trained. With a few instructions to my ex-wives (had 2...don't ask) they were able to fully run the dogs without a single problem. In fact, it was quite empowering for them to have dogs that would attack on command. I noticed that they were much more eager to bring the dogs to run errands. LOL!


It may be the case today, but in my experience with an actual military working dog handler 20 years ago, he trained almost weekly with his dog. That is what I based the statement on about the time requirements. I guess the training has advanced and is that much better now, so I will submit to your experience in this matter. Thanks for the correction.


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## jesstheshow (Nov 18, 2013)

I think my Irish Wolfhound does the trick.


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