# 1911 45 vs 9mm



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

My layaway is just about paid for and I'm looking for new gun I'm thinking about trying out a 9mm I have herd some good things about the 9mm. So,, I thinking of a Colt 1911 in 9mm. You guys got any input on this?

Also would the 9mm be more plentiful and easier to find after SHTF?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Love Love Love my 1911 in 9MM

Love Love Love my 1911 in .45ACP

Get one (or 3) of each!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I have a 1911 in both calibers. 9 is cheaper for practice. 45 hits harder.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Love Love Love my 1911 in 9MM
> 
> Love Love Love my 1911 in .45ACP
> 
> Get one (or 3) of each!


I have a selection of Colt 1911s 45 70 an 80 series


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

9mm is cheaper for sure, but I personally would only buy a 1911 in .45 or .380, .380 is a scaled down .45, same angles and stuff. From what I understand, the whole 1911 action is designed around .45/.380 so anything can present a problem. Jm2c.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Why not a 10mm??


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Don't over look the Springfield range officer series. I have one on my radar in 9mm.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The 1911 is a time tested Platform . With both good a bad sides. When it comes to full size 9mm there are just so many outstanding options IMO many that are better than the 1911. Comes down to more what the heart wants rather than anything else. 9MM makes sense there will always be more ammo for it around than any other.
The 380 is a down sized 9MM


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## yooper_sjd (May 14, 2017)

Smitty901 said:


> The 1911 is a time tested Platform . With both good a bad sides. When it comes to full size 9mm there are just so many outstanding options IMO many that are better than the 1911. Comes down to more what the heart wants rather than anything else. 9MM makes sense there will always be more ammo for it around than any other.
> The 380 is a down sized 9MM


20 yrs in the Navy as a Smalll Arms instructor, instructed both 1911 in .45 and M9 in 9mm. I could go over my personal experiences with both in capacity and kinetic energy/penitration. But I love the comment of .380 is a downsized 9mm. In truth it is. My preferred caliber now for a side arm is in 9x18 Makarov. It is dead in the middle of .380 and 9x19 luger. I have a CZ-82 and the first time I shot it, I was impressed with the penetration of the caliber. Dead of winter in Northern Michigan (Da U.P.) and at 30 ft I was punching through a 4" frozen solid Tamarack tree that I put up a target on (with a factor load of brown bear 95 gr FMJ). The beauty of the CZ-82 is if I was not happy with 9x18 Mak I could easily change out the barrel to .380 to make it a CZ-83. But I am happy with where it is now.

When it comes to the old tossup of 9mm or .45 ACP, purchase what you feel comfortable with.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

yooper_sjd said:


> 20 yrs in the Navy as a Smalll Arms instructor, instructed both 1911 in .45 and M9 in 9mm. I could go over my personal experiences with both in capacity and kinetic energy/penitration. But I love the comment of .380 is a downsized 9mm. In truth it is. My preferred caliber now for a side arm is in 9x18 Makarov. It is dead in the middle of .380 and 9x19 luger. I have a CZ-82 and the first time I shot it, I was impressed with the penetration of the caliber. Dead of winter in Northern Michigan (Da U.P.) and at 30 ft I was punching through a 4" frozen solid Tamarack tree that I put up a target on (with a factor load of brown bear 95 gr FMJ). The beauty of the CZ-82 is if I was not happy with 9x18 Mak I could easily change out the barrel to .380 to make it a CZ-83. But I am happy with where it is now.
> 
> When it comes to the old tossup of 9mm or .45 ACP, purchase what you feel comfortable with.


 I spent 23 years In the Infantry. I was as sold on the 1911 as a person could be. As a machine gunner a 45 was an issue weapon for me. When the M9 replaced it I was upset, felt sold out. The M9 proved to be a very good full size. 15 rounds in a smooth controllable weapon. I even added a couple of the civilian version 92FS to my vault. 
The Ruger LC 380 can swap out to a 9mm. Short range the 380 will do the job of man stopping . I have posted this many times Steel door at 21 feet 380 95 gr flat nose. It also went through a peace of 7/16 ply wood behind it . I am darn sure a 230 gr 45 would have made a bigger hole.















First question to ask with any weapon purchase. What do I expect it to do for me. When you have a list that fills the need then go with the heart or the check book depending on account balance.


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## yooper_sjd (May 14, 2017)

@Smitty901, I hear ya brother! I got my own stories of .45 vs 9mm when I range a range in italy that the Carebinari used with us. I was impressed with the power of 9x18, which is very simular to performance of .380. I find when having to shoot quickly the recoil is very smooth and controlled for faster target acquisition. I love the feel of it my hand, and I also reload and cast my own bullets, so I do have hotter loads for other occasions.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I solved the problem, have 7 in 45ACP and 6 in 9MM Para.

I am just a PF crazy!


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I am fine with a 9mm, but I generally condition that with, "Use hard hitting rounds". I have a .45 myself, but I am hard pressed to pick that over a modern +P JHP 9mm. 
Modern ammo has made all the difference to me, and it can flatten a man. And in a 1911, you could use Cor Bon or Buffalo Bore to your hearts content. So this time, I would pick 9mm.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

As an old doughnut muncher..I cut my teeth on .357 Mag DA six shooters Lugged SW mostly but did have a Colt for a while. So when things started getting more modernized It was a pretty smooth transition over to a 4506 semi. Then for some reason wound up with my trusty Sig .40 wich is the best gun I ever owned..lol. Carried around a lot of cheap 1911 clones when off duty. Hated them with a passion..since one up the snout on a cocked gun makes me nervous. Plus everybody I knew who fiddled around with those things very much fired one off accidentally at one time or another. So I hate those things. lol. Will say on some kinda comp shooting where multi taps or the rage..think a big 9 mm or .380 would sure keep a person on target better than a smallish .40. That thing really changes up the sight picture when it goes boom. lol. Works ok up real close.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Hey @bigwheel, before I was on the PD I carried a S&W Mod. 27 in 357 Mag.

I carried it for a short while when first on, then went to a Mod. 66 4".

Evolved from there to a 639 in 9 MM.

I am leaving in a few minutes, I go with a Smith stainless 1911 with CT green laser and four mags.:devil:

My backup is a Smith 642 with one speed loader.

Yeah, I carry one of those with Speer Gold Dot ammo.:devil:


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> My layaway is just about paid for and I'm looking for new gun I'm thinking about trying out a 9mm I have herd some good things about the 9mm. So,, I thinking of a Colt 1911 in 9mm. You guys got any input on this?
> 
> Also would the 9mm be more plentiful and easier to find after SHTF?


#1: Gelatin tests, . . . trees, . . . ice blocks, . . . straw bales, . . . and all sorts of "other" targets do not duplicate the human torso we may have to shoot into some day to save our lives or the lives of someone else.

#2: Modern 9mm ammo is designed to have an "expansion" factor built into them that may work, . . . and then again it may not work. You do not get your money back, with an apology, and a do over if it does not work. On the other hand, . . . that ol' .45ACP does not have a "reduction factor" built in to it.

In other words, . . . a .45 will always be a .45 and act like one on the target, . . . and a 9mm just might do the same. The smaller bullet will not have the same effect on the bad guy, bullet for bullet, than the bigger one.

#3: Availability will depend on your area, . . . lots of folks around my neck of the woods carry and like the .45 ACP, . . . other areas may be more prone to the wimp round. Check out and see what other folks are shooting, . . . ask your LGS which one sells the most, . . . etc.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sounds like some of the lectures we heard from the gun guru at my old agency. He had got bonded with some kinda survey the FBI did on cop shootings in the 70s. The theory evolved that since handgun rounds move too slow to reliably expand..the bigger hole you could make more efficacious it was. Recall one story he shared about being in court. The little scalawag defense atty asked him why do you have to carry a .45? He say cause they dont make .50s..lol. Which was true in them days. Jumping quickly to a dear old chum who did ambushes along the Ho chi minh trail in Cambodia in the real early 60s. The guvment 1911s with the ball ammo was good at poking holes in folks but did not make them immediately cease and desist. So..his arents sent him a .357 wheel gun..and his partners Mama sent him a .44 mag..with accompanying good ammo. He said that would make the perps stop quickly. Not sure he knew what he was talking about but he sounded plausible.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Hey @bigwheel, before I was on the PD I carried a S&W Mod. 27 in 357 Mag.
> 
> I carried it for a short while when first on, then went to a Mod. 66 4".
> 
> ...


What??? Your leaving the Thompson at home???

The best round is the one you can reliably put on target. Having said that I do subscribe to hitting someone intent on doing harm to me or my family with the biggest piece of lead I can put on target. For me that's a 45 or 357 mag depending on pistol or revolver (I do not have a larger caliber) If I had a nine I would be comfortable. Given a choice I like a 12 gauge with 3 1/2 inch slugs or 00 buck. Carrying that is not always practical.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> What??? Your leaving the Thompson at home???


That goes in the big safe with the other MG's when I go out.

I can conceal it under my coat with a 20 round mag in it and with the stock detached.

My Powder Springs MAC 10 is much better for hiding, but the mags are long like the Thompson's 30's.

But it (Thompson) weighs too much to carry,

the interesting thing about it is everybody knows what a Chicago typewriter is.

I'd rather an AKM with a 75 round drum for closeup FA.

Three to five rounds from either in less than 4/10th of a second has quite a devastating effect on the CNS.

The other problem is this is a libtard state that takes a dim view on self defense of any sort,

they want you a victim so they can use the statistic to get bigger budgets for the PD's and more power for those who run them.

I do carry 100 rounds of each ammo I carry in both Jeeps and spare mags for each pistol I would carry also.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

amd 65 with tac light, drum and m 21 optic.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> amd 63 with tac light, drum and m 21 optic.


What happened to the picture you posted?


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

The FBI went back to the 9mm as their primary issue caliber in 2017. They did that as they found, as already said, that modern 9mm ammo does quite well stopping bad guys while being more controllable for most folks. I just watched an episode of "Gun Stories" this morning about the FBI's lifetime transition in handguns.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

A 9MM measures .357" and usually weighs 115 or 124 grains.
The 45ACP measures .454" and weighs 230 grains. 
Yes, a 9MM has a higher initial velocity, but still is not enough for me.

Back in the days of Jeff Cooper there was one handgun sport that required that guns used have a minimum Power Factor. The 9MM did not meet minimum.

I agree with Dwight, a 9 MAY expand, but a 45 will NEVER shrink.
That said, I do own one 9, a Walther P38 as part of my military collection.

Buy what ever floats your boat. The odds of you ever having to shoot somebody in your lifetime is infinitesimal.
And since the odds ae so tiny, I will admit that in my front pocket right now is a Ruger LCP2 in .380.
Simply because a full size 1911A1 will not fit in my pocket.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> What happened to the picture you posted?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I will take a pic of mine.


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## yooper_sjd (May 14, 2017)

@Camel923 I got a yugo underfolder, where you get the railed hand guard at? I like that setup with the forward grip.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

My turn. You do understand the true glow and flash light was joke.
Pre- Brady bill folder


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

yooper_sjd said:


> @Camel923 I got a yugo underfolder, where you get the railed hand guard at? I like that setup with the forward grip.


Rail guard -centerfire systems

Meprolight m 21 optic - sportsman's guide

Sun optics Foregrip with tac light-planet optics(also carry the other two items)

changed out the folding stock to have a cheek riser and accommodate the drum and a few other parts-http://www.amd65tech.com/


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

RedLion said:


> The FBI went back to the 9mm as their primary issue caliber in 2017. They did that as they found, as already said, that modern 9mm ammo does quite well stopping bad guys while being more controllable for most folks. I just watched an episode of "Gun Stories" this morning about the FBI's lifetime transition in handguns.


Heard rumors Texas Troopers also devolving from .357 Sig to 9 mm in the P 226s they carry. I heard some of the reasons given but i smell political correctness rearing its ugly head. Thinking its a step toward killing folks in a kindler and gentler fashion in order to placate Obummer and Al Sharpton.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Around 2004, or 2005 I took some training classes from our local Sheriffs department instructors.
They had switched to the 9MM, and the training at that time emphasized if the bad guy is advancing, aim for the pelvic girdle for the quickest way to impede forward motion. Rounds to the chest were considered unreliable to stop a determined attacker. Yes, they used modern hollow points.

They have since gone to the .40 caliber.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Around 2004, or 2005 I took some training classes from our local Sheriffs department instructors.
> They had switched to the 9MM, and the training at that time emphasized if the bad guy is advancing, aim for the pelvic girdle for the quickest way to impede forward motion. Rounds to the chest were considered unreliable to stop a determined attacker. Yes, they used modern hollow points.
> 
> They have since gone to the .40 caliber.


The FBI went to the 10mm and then subsequently to the .40cal after the shootout in FL. The FBI went back to the 9mm in 2017 as new ammo offers performance on par with the .40, but easier to shoot for most.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Years ago I took a night pistol class. It was mostly cops. Everyone but me had a .45 or a -40. I had a Glock 17 because the Danish military surplus ammo I had was cheap. I got teased that my gun was set on stun. I did have the lowest flash signature though.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Around 2004, or 2005 I took some training classes from our local Sheriffs department instructors.
> They had switched to the 9MM, and the training at that time emphasized if the bad guy is advancing, aim for the pelvic girdle for the quickest way to impede forward motion. Rounds to the chest were considered unreliable to stop a determined attacker. Yes, they used modern hollow points.
> 
> They have since gone to the .40 caliber.


Aiming for the pecker is new territory for me..lol..but I like the sound of it.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

My 45 double stack is 14 +1 fine shooting weapon weights a ton and is huge. $1200 gun. My SR9C in a mid size 9mm 17 rounds light fine shooting weapon . $349 gun. Easy to Conceal. 124 gr semi jacket hollow points Bubba will go down . The 40 was suppose to put the 9mm in the history books. It went the other way . Most LE that switch to them went back to 9mm. Not often I fell the need to CC much more than my LC9S.
Don't get me wrong I like that 45 and it will do some serious damage, but it does have down sides as all seem to.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

My personal preferred defense weapon would be a 20MM Orlikon.:devil:

That will do the job, level 4 body armor or not, problem is it is not concealable.

I carry different handguns in 9MM para, 40S&W and 45 ACP, I tailor to where I go. 

I can still shoot well, and statistically, I hope I don't have to engage anyone again.

Groin shot is good for incapacitating and bypassing body armor, alternate is head or neck.

Anywhere just below the belt works but the pelvic is key.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Aiming for the pecker is new territory for me..lol..but I like the sound of it.


The idea being break the pelvic bone, on either side, and the perp will go down with a leg that no longer works.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sounds reasonable to me. Have heard of a few situations over the years where a less than near guaranteed fatal chest shot would have worked to stop a menacing perp who refused to halt while holding hoes..axes..knives rakes and such things. Dont think it be good to try it with a gun equipped bad guy. Never have been in that situation but know some folks who have and the old center of mass training has kicked in. . A bad guy on the ground with a gun and a broke pelvic girdle or missing penis could be highly mad and dangerous. lol.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Part of the aiming low comes from the second shot many will naturally shoot higher. The chance that the BG you have to engage in a SD will be wearing body armor is low. First thing you have to do is hit the BG. Follow up with more rounds to stop the threat.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

@Camel923, Here is the picture, a couple of AK's variants with 75 round drums.


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## Grinch2 (Sep 12, 2016)

Recently picked up a Glock 17, it was MY first 9mm, my fiance has a 9mm in a Glock 43. I mean anymore it's odd to find a gas station that doesn't have a box of 9mm, 45 Auto on the shelf. You asked if it would be more plentiful, of course, compared to 45 Win Mag ammo ( my 1911 on steroids ). But if I may ask why a 1911 in 9mm? 

Before the big 1911 and Glock war gets started let alone 9mm vs 45, let me just say the 1911 is a time tested and battle proven design, it's brought a lot of good men home to their wives and kids. However anymore it is a 100+ year old design, are people still making it? Yes, but people are still making muzzle loaders, there's a reason we're still not making model T's anymore. For me it's outdated, why drive a Prius when you can drive a GMC Sierra? 

Whether you go with the 9mm or the 45 Auto you're going to find ammo and cheap ammo none the less, might not be good ammo but it will be cheap. Personally I'm not suggesting the 1911 for the obvious reasons. But I mean lets face it, 9mm, 45 Auto, or the superior of the others 10mm all of them will get the job done, some might take an extra round or two, but it will.


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