# Stupid vaccine question



## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Every year we have a flu vaccine. And each year doctors/scientists use an educated guess to decide which strain of the flu vaccine will be administered. Usually (at least lately) they are wrong.

So flash forward to today and we have the Chy-na virus. The masses (not me) take the vaccine and are "protected". What happens next year when it mutates and we have a new strain. Are they just going to guess which strain might be circulating like they do with the flu?

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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

Nah, they will flip a coin like they usually do

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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> Every year we have a flu vaccine. And each year doctors/scientists use an educated guess to decide which strain of the flu vaccine will be administered. Usually (at least lately) they are wrong.
> 
> So flash forward to today and we have the Chy-na virus. The masses (not me) take the vaccine and are "protected". What happens next year when it mutates and we have a new strain. Are they just going to guess which strain might be circulating like they do with the flu?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


More masks...more vaccinations before you can move about the planet.

I'm reading a few stories that say you are going to have to have proof of vaccinations before you travel.


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

Papers please....papers now. Schnel

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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I read somewhere a few months ago that this virus has not mutated,

they stated the reason it has not is due to the fact it was developed in a lab and was not naturally occurring.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> I read somewhere a few months ago that this virus has not mutated,
> 
> they stated the reason it has not is due to the fact it was developed in a lab and was not naturally occurring.


Now, they are saying there's four strains. 
Then again, "they" might be wrong.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Propaganda, pure and simple.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

You're comparing grapes and watermelons. 
Flu' is very small (a negative sense RNA virus) and coronavirus (a positive sense RNA virus) is one of the largest of all viruses (approx 125 microns). Coronavirus are also one of the lowest rate mutators of viruses.

Here's a paper from 10 years ago discussing it (SARS-CoV note no "1") https://jvi.asm.org/content/jvi/84/19/9733.full.pdf

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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

fangfarrier said:


> You're comparing grapes and watermelons.
> Flu' is very small (a negative sense RNA virus) and coronavirus (a positive sense RNA virus) is one of the largest of all viruses (approx 125 microns). Coronavirus are also one of the lowest rate mutators of viruses.
> 
> Here's a paper from 10 years ago discussing it (SARS-CoV note no "1") https://jvi.asm.org/content/jvi/84/19/9733.full.pdf
> ...


I thought the common cold (also a coronavirus) had no cure because of all the mutations.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

More than 200 different viruses are known to cause the symptoms of the common cold. An estimated 30-35% of all adult colds are caused by rhinoviruses.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

fangfarrier said:


> More than 200 different viruses are known to cause the symptoms of the common cold. An estimated 30-35% of all adult colds are caused by rhinoviruses.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I tried reading that paper you provided but realized I'll have to go to college for a few years to understand it. :vs_laugh:


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Try this version:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/understanding-common-cold-virus

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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Or this one

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5355621/

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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

fangfarrier said:


> You're comparing grapes and watermelons.
> Flu' is very small (a negative sense RNA virus) and coronavirus (a positive sense RNA virus) is one of the largest of all viruses (approx 125 microns). Coronavirus are also one of the lowest rate mutators of viruses.
> 
> Here's a paper from 10 years ago discussing it (SARS-CoV note no "1") https://jvi.asm.org/content/jvi/84/19/9733.full.pdf
> ...


That's why I said "stupid" question.

But thanks for straightening that out Mr. Smartypants.

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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks!


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Sasquatch said:


> That's why I said "stupid" question.
> 
> But thanks for straightening that out Mr. Smartypants.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No it wasn't a stupid question at all!!!
Unless you've studied this you wouldn't know.

I'm sorry I came over smarty pants-like. 
My pants aren't that smart these days.

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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

fangfarrier said:


> No it wasn't a stupid question at all!!!
> Unless you've studied this you wouldn't know.
> 
> I'm sorry I came over smarty pants-like.
> ...


As do appreciate you!


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

I'm reading that the vaccine is less effective than the immune systems of most people. Also read that some of the people who participated in a vaccine trial developed Bell's Palsy.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

fangfarrier said:


> No it wasn't a stupid question at all!!!
> Unless you've studied this you wouldn't know.
> 
> I'm sorry I came over smarty pants-like.
> ...


You didn't come over as a smarty pants. I'm just giving you a good rogering. Nope, that means something different doesn't it? I was teasing.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Sasquatch said:


> You didn't come over as a smarty pants. I'm just giving you a good rogering. Nope, that means something different doesn't it? I was teasing.


What's wrong with you?!?


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> What's wrong with you?!?


That's what my mom always says!

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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Sasquatch said:


> That's what my mom always says!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Your Mom is brilliant. 
How do you answer her?


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> Your Mom is brilliant.
> How do you answer her?


I tell her I spend too much time with you.

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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Sasquatch said:


> I tell her I spend too much time with you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


So, you use me as brownie points with Mom? How pathetic.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> I thought the common cold (also a coronavirus) had no cure because of all the mutations.


Has there ever been a cure for a virus? I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on TV but it seems to me that a virus had to be treated by other means.

Now, suddenly, and quite rapidly a vaccine has been found! Of course it alters your DNA but what does that matter in the grand scheme of things? One could hope that the altering of the DNA could turn me into a Chuck Norris. Or maybe Khan. Well, never mind, we know how well that turned out for him.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> So, you use me as brownie points with Mom? How pathetic.


Now you're just talking like a Liberal. Shame.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Sasquatch said:


> You didn't come over as a smarty pants. I'm just giving you a good rogering. Nope, that means something different doesn't it? I was teasing.


A rogering? On my birthday? Oh you spoil me. Will you not buy me a drink first?

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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

fangfarrier said:


> A rogering? On my birthday? Oh you spoil me. Will you not buy me a drink first?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Drink hell! Demand a expensive dinner, a movie, and a drink!


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

fangfarrier said:


> A rogering? On my birthday? Oh you spoil me. Will you not buy me a drink first?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only 1 drink?

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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

soyer38301 said:


> Only 1 drink?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I'm easy, what else can I say.

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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

horrible thread title. I thought somebody had come up with a "Stupid Vaccine" 

I was freaking excited, my first though was could we put it in the democrats koolaid. Could we use a dart gun and get Pelosi???


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> horrible thread title. I thought somebody had come up with a "Stupid Vaccine"
> 
> I was freaking excited, my first though was could we put it in the democrats koolaid. Could we use a dart gun and get Pelosi???


Thay are already stupid..a "stupid vaccine" would not change that 

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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Simple.. it’s not about masks or the vaccine (although I’ll never take the vaccine)

It’s about one word and one word only..

CONTROL.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> I tell her I spend too much time with you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


How did the two of you meet? I'm just curious if you physically met somewhere or had an internet relationship before you became a couple.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

fangfarrier said:


> A rogering? On my birthday? Oh you spoil me. Will you not buy me a drink first?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Happy Birthday!!


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

KUSA said:


> How did the two of you meet? I'm just curious if you physically met somewhere or had an internet relationship before you became a couple.


Met the boy on here. He had a fledgling podcast that needed some help and I volunteered. I have a background in radio so I thought I could punch it up, from a distance, but he pulled me right back into my life of crime of being on air. Now I would take offense to the "became a couple" statement but I do agree we are a couple. At least an odd couple. We should rename the show _The Odd Couple_! We'd never get sued over that.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

fangfarrier said:


> A rogering? On my birthday? Oh you spoil me. Will you not buy me a drink first?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I only spoil those who deserve it and you sir/madam do! I'm happy to buy you a drink first. What are you having? A Tom Collins, Bob's your uncle or do you really want to get dirty with an Irish Car bomb?


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Sasquatch said:


> I only spoil those who deserve it and you sir/madam do! I'm happy to buy you a drink first. What are you having? A Tom Collins, Bob's your uncle or do you really want to get dirty with an Irish Car bomb?


We prefer to call the latter a Dublin Drop.

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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

My tipple is a Guinness though. 


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

fangfarrier said:


> A rogering? On my birthday? Oh you spoil me. Will you not buy me a drink first?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Happy (belated) Birthday!!! :vs_coffee::vs_coffee: Since its only 7:30, I'll toast your health with a cuppa joe.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

As for the vaccines, @Sasquatch, what I've been told (by a nurse) is that even if the virus mutates, they'll be enough that's the same as to lessen the severity of your flu symptoms should you catch it. What does hot nursey say about it?


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

Sasquatch said:


> Every year we have a flu vaccine. And each year doctors/scientists use an educated guess to decide which strain of the flu vaccine will be administered. Usually (at least lately) they are wrong.
> 
> So flash forward to today and we have the Chy-na virus. The masses (not me) take the vaccine and are "protected". What happens next year when it mutates and we have a new strain. Are they just going to guess which strain might be circulating like they do with the flu?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


That's why this is all ridiculous. Even if we get the vaccine for this, there could be some other virus coming along. So what, we should all be "locked down" forever? This is such BS. You can't stop the world because of virus that's only deadly to people over 65 who have 10+ things wrong with them that would be killing them anyway.

Even if it was deadly for people in my age bracket, I'd still want to live my life. Live Free or Die.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Not mine, but something I want you all to read:

Maybe you have some sense that something fishy is going on? Same. If it’s not one thing, it’s another.

Coronavirus lived on surfaces until it didn’t. Masks didn’t work until they did, then they did not. There is asymptomatic transmission, except there isn’t. Lockdowns work to control the virus except they do not. All these people are sick without symptoms until, whoops, PCR tests are wildly inaccurate because they were never intended to be diagnostic tools. Everyone is in danger of the virus except they aren’t. It spreads in schools except it doesn’t.

On it goes. Daily. It’s no wonder that so many people have stopped believing anything that “public health authorities” say. In combination with governors and other autocrats doing their bidding, they set out to take away freedom and human rights and expected us to thank them for saving our lives. At some point this year (for me it was March 12) life began feeling like a dystopian novel of your choice.

Well, now I have another piece of evidence to add to the mile-high pile of fishy mess. The World Health Organization, for reasons unknown, has suddenly changed its definition of a core conception of immunology: herd immunity. Its discovery was one of the major achievements of 20th century science, gradually emerging in the 1920s and then becoming ever more refined throughout the 20th century.

Herd immunity is a fascinating observation that you can trace to biological reality or statistical probability theory, whichever you prefer. (It is certainly not a “strategy” so ignore any media source that describes it that way.) Herd immunity speaks directly, and with explanatory power, to the empirical observation that respiratory viruses are either widespread and mostly mild (common cold) or very severe and short-lived (Ebola).

Why is this? The reason is that when a virus kills its host – that is, when a virus overtaxes the body’s ability to integrate it, its host dies and so the virus does not spread to others. The more this occurs, the less it spreads. If the virus doesn’t kill its host, it can hop to others through all the usual means. When you get a virus and fight it off, your immune system encodes that information in a way that builds immunity to it. When it happens to enough people (and each case is different so we can’t put a clear number on it, especially given so many cross immunities) the virus loses its pandemic quality and becomes endemic, which is to say predictable and manageable. Each new generation incorporates that information through more exposure.

This is what one would call Virology/Immunology 101. It’s what you read in every textbook. It’s been taught in 9th grade cell biology for probably 80 years. Observing the operations of this evolutionary phenomenon is pretty wonderful because it increases one’s respect for the way in which human biology has adapted to the presence of pathogens without absolutely freaking out.

And the discovery of this fascinating dynamic in cell biology is a major reason why public health became so smart in the 20th century. We kept calm. We managed viruses with medical professionals: doctor/patient relationships. We avoided the Medieval tendency to run around with hair on fire but rather used rationality and intelligence. Even the New York Times recognizes that natural immunity is powerful with Covid-19, which is not in the least bit surprising.

Until one day, this strange institution called the World Health Organization – once glorious because it was mainly responsible for the eradication of smallpox – has suddenly decided to delete everything I just wrote from cell biology basics. It has literally changed the science in a Soviet-like way. It has removed with the delete key any mention of natural immunities from its website. It has taken the additional step of actually mischaracterizing the structure and functioning of vaccines.

So that you will believe me, I will try to be as precise as possible. Here is the website from June 9, 2020. You can see it here on Archive.org. You have to move down the page and click on the question about herd immunity. You see the following.

That’s pretty darn accurate overall. Even the statement that the threshold is “not yet clear” is correct. There are cross immunities to Covid from other coronaviruses and there is T cell memory that contributes to natural immunity.

Some estimates are as low as 10%, which is a far cry from the modeled 70% estimate of virus immunity that is standard within the pharmaceutical realm. Real life is vastly more complicated than models, in economics or epidemiology. The WHO’s past statement is a solid, if “pop,” description.

However, in a screenshot dated November 13, 2020, we read the following note that somehow pretends as if human beings do not have immune systems at all but rather rely entirely on big pharma to inject things into our blood.

What this note at the World Health Organization has done is deleted what amounts to the entire million-year history of humankind in its delicate dance with pathogens. You could only gather from this that all of us are nothing but blank and unimprovable slates on which the pharmaceutical industry writes its signature.

In effect, this change at WHO ignores and even wipes out 100 years of medical advances in virology, immunology, and epidemiology. It is thoroughly unscientific – shilling for the vaccine industry in exactly the way the conspiracy theorists say that WHO has been doing since the beginning of this pandemic.

What’s even more strange is the claim that a vaccine protects people from a virus rather than exposing them to it. What’s amazing about this claim is that a vaccine works precisely by firing up the immune system through exposure. Why I had to type those words is truly beyond me. This has been known for centuries. There is simply no way for medical science completely to replace the human immune system. It can only game it via what used to be called inoculation.

Take from this what you will. It is a sign of the times. For nearly a full year, the media has been telling us that “science” requires that we comply with their dictates that run contrary to every tenet of liberalism, every expectation we’ve developed in the modern world that we can live freely and with the certainty of rights. Then “science” took over and our human rights were slammed. And now the “science” is actually deleting its own history, airbrushing over what it used to know and replacing it with something misleading at best and patently false at worst.

I cannot say why, exactly, the WHO did this. Given the events of the past nine or ten months, however, it is reasonable to assume that politics are at play. Since the beginning of the pandemic, those who have been pushing lockdowns and hysteria over the coronavirus have resisted the idea of natural herd immunity, instead insisting that we must live in lockdown until a vaccine is developed.

That is why the Great Barrington Declaration, written by three of the world’s preeminent epidemiologists and which advocated embracing the phenomenon of herd immunity as a way of protecting the vulnerable and minimizing harms to society, was met with such venom. Now we see the WHO, too, succumbing to political pressure. This is the only rational explanation for changing the definition of herd immunity that has existed for the past century.

The science has not changed; only the politics have. And that is precisely why it is so dangerous and deadly to subject virus management to the forces of politics. Eventually the science too bends to the duplicitous character of the political industry.

When the existing textbooks that students use in college contradict the latest official pronouncements from the authorities during a crisis in which the ruling class is clearly attempting to seize permanent power, we’ve got a problem.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I had almost the same discussion with my 24yro daughter yesterday. She is a U of M Twin Cities grad, (enough said), she would agree with me on some points but would basically say, "but the gov, CDC, and WHO say this".

Like the movie Cool Hand Luke.....some people you just can't reach. It was Christmas, didn't want to start a fight, so I just let it be.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

1skrewsloose said:


> I had almost the same discussion with my 24yro daughter yesterday. She is a U of M Twin Cities grad, (enough said), she would agree with me on some points but would basically say, "but the gov, CDC, and WHO say this".
> 
> Like the movie Cool Hand Luke.....some people you just can't reach. It was Christmas, didn't want to start a fight, so I just let it be.


War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

I'm sitting here actually wearing my IngSoc T-shirt!









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