# police abuse in my hometown



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Watch this video, as officer manhandles a drunk, pushes his flashlight against the guys throat, then beats him about the head with flashlight.
Watch at around 4;22 when another cop rushes in and grabs handcuffed suspect by "the guzzle", then notices the dash cam light.
I like how they are "tossing him around" telling him they are trying to help him.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Nothing to see here. Move along. Or else.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

I wasnt resisting, the movement you are beating me for is just from the other officer hitting me. Some of the "guttoral screams" that Devon lets out, will curdle your stomache.
Put your own hand against your windpipe, slowly apply pressure, it hurts. Now imagine ANYONE pushing you backwards over a hood of a car, then jamming their flashlight into your throat. The whole time telling you "calm down".
I know Im preaching to the choir, Denton, as you and I are the late night owls on here.


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## doddy37 (Oct 20, 2013)

I think it was to much. The 2nd Leo shouldn't have did what he did.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Under what pretext are these LEOs beating the guy (i.e. what law do they think gives them the power to beat people?) Who is ultimately responsible for said law?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Pretty common now days.
Trained that way while beating the heck out of someone you yell stop, don't resists , give me your hands ect . Suppose to make it look good.
Want a good ass kicking try spending time in Madison and not be on the correct political side.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

What I learned from this video...don't get drunk and stumble around pissing off the cops in San Juan County, NM.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Slippy said:


> What I learned from this video...don't get drunk and stumble around pissing off the cops in San Juan County, NM.


Unless your a politician or a fellow cop or a rock star!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I notice in Wisconsin to different types of misconduct on the part of LE. Of course I am excluding flat crimes like steal,drug deal ect. That is about he same where ever it happens.
Milwaukee Police are like to go over board out of anger.out of tough guy way of thinking and maybe even stress of where they are. Milwaukee is known for the code of silence and the bad boy image. They have been know many time to literally beat the heck out people. It is never really political based.
Madison is a different story. Police will stop you for a American flag on your car, they have been know to beat people that express conservative views in public. They have even been caught doing and telling people not to come back until they get their thinking right. They have a DA that backs them up, and a court system you have little chance of ever getting to.
Few years back they blocked Tea party event goers from getting back to their cars ,forced them to walk a mile around. Yelling taunts like you'll have time to think on your walk. Ya don't come back ect.LE send threatening Emails on state computers to Business about how they better rethink their support for a candidate. 
Old man got the hell beat out of him by two college punks. They arrested the old man." his pro Walker sign was the cause" of the beating he should have known better. They had a video tape of the beating and told no one. Two local tv station had the video and never played it. A Citizen made it public. The officers were never disciplined. DA still tried to charge the old man with disorderly conduct his action caused the the beating.
Problem is the press seldom reports most of this, if they do bottom of page 11.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> What I learned from this video...don't get drunk and stumble around pissing off the cops in San Juan County, NM.


There is the right way of handling a situation and then, there is this.

Did the cops conduct themselves as peace officers, or did they conduct themselves as knuckle-dragging authoritarians who must be obeyed or pain will be inflicted?
Who are they to act like drill sergeants in basic training, barking orders in such a manner? Who are they to place a mag light to someone's throat and then beat someone about the head after instinctively swatting at the object being pressed against the throat?

These jack-booted bozos did nothing to calm a situation. As a matter of fact, their conduct insured tension would escalate. Of course, such escalation is what one wants when one wants to impose one's "authority" in such a heavy-handed style.

This is not example of how peace officers conduct themselves when dealing with free men living in a free nation. This is an example of cowards behind badges, conducting themselves as law enforcement agents of an authoritarian rule. We see more and more of this. One might suggest that our society requires such action as it doesn't exercise the responsibilities that go hand in hand with rights, and I reply to this by asserting that this, too, has been engineered to be so. After all, a problem must be created so that the desired answer to the problem will be accepted.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> I notice in Wisconsin to different types of misconduct on the part of LE. Of course I am excluding flat crimes like steal,drug deal ect. That is about he same where ever it happens.
> Milwaukee Police are like to go over board out of anger.out of tough guy way of thinking and maybe even stress of where they are. Milwaukee is known for the code of silence and the bad boy image. They have been know many time to literally beat the heck out people. It is never really political based.
> Madison is a different story. Police will stop you for a American flag on your car, they have been know to beat people that express conservative views in public. They have even been caught doing and telling people not to come back until they get their thinking right. They have a DA that backs them up, and a court system you have little chance of ever getting to.
> Few years back they blocked Tea party event goers from getting back to their cars ,forced them to walk a mile around. Yelling taunts like you'll have time to think on your walk. Ya don't come back ect.LE send threatening Emails on state computers to Business about how they better rethink their support for a candidate.
> ...


So, the old man was attacked by thugs and then arrested by other thugs because he wore a t-shirt that expressed support of a politician? He was beaten and arrested for exercising his freedom of speech?


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

OK. This goes both ways. The Indian was being a pain in the ass as they tend to be. The cop was being overly aggressive, but he wasn't having much luck controlling the Indian. Putting his light in the drunks throat and telling him to calm down seems to be a lesson in futility. You aren't going to reason with a drunk. The second cop didn't really do anything wrong I don't think. The Indian was beating his head on the hood of the car and he grabbed him to stop him. Did he stop from going further because he noticed the light on the camera? I don't know, maybe. It doesn't matter because he stopped. It sounds like the Indian was the guy that assaulted the other guy they were talking about. 
Why are we talking about this incident from 2011?
All in all I don't think this is the best case to look at for police brutality. IMO this one is borderline at best.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Madison is a different story. Police will stop you for a American flag on your car, they have been know to beat people that express conservative views in public. They have even been caught doing and telling people not to come back until they get their thinking right. They have a DA that backs them up, and a court system you have little chance of ever getting to.


Smitty, I do not doubt you, as you live in Wisconsin. 
However, my one visit to your state, Madison and Cross Plains in particular, was very pleasant. I was there in Sept 2009 attending the annual re-union of the Society of the Fifth Infantry Division. The hotel was at the intersection of US 12 & the road that runs to Cross Plains.
I drive a fire engine red GMC crew cab, a very conspicuous vehicle, and it has a hood bug deflector that is the Stars and Stripes. The front license plate is the Vietnam Service Ribbon. There are various military and veteran stickers on the back glass of the bed topper. In other words, if a cop, any cop, was looking for a "conservative" to give a hard time he would have no trouble finding me. None did.
I was there for 4 days and even took a side trip to Green Bay. Took a wrong turn on the way and ended up in Fond du Lac.

Like I said, i do not doubt you, but I had a wonderful time, found Wisconsin to be a beautiful state, the people I met were pleasant.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Just read about a female jogger who was arrested for jaywalking and not having ID on her. This was in Austin.
Arrested arrest, too. The cop ran up behind her and grabbed her arm, at which time she snatched away. She didn't know who was grabbing her.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Devils Advocate, so I'll apologize now, but his use of the flashlight was appropriate. It was no worse than if he were using an expandable baton (ASP). 

You had an individual who was refusing to comply with lawful orders (keeping in mind we only see the amount of video the person who posted it wanted us to see), was told his detention was because he was a possible witness, and still attempted to flee. Once you are being told you are being detained/not free to leave, you're not. And the street is not a place to argue your court case. That's why they have court rooms.

I saw at least two occasions where the guy put his hands on or tried to hit the cop. He was "uncooperative" at best. At one point it appeared to me the guy looked as if he tried to punch the officer, and the officer responded by punching him/hitting him with the flashlight. I have nailed a lot of people when I felt they were trying to hit me or I believed that an assault was imminent. I'm not going to wait around and see if they'll actually hit me. I don't have to. I just have to articulate that I was afraid I was going to be assaulted/injured. 

Once on the ground, I'm going to assume that the officer was attempting to handcuff or otherwise restrain the guy. I would have. I'm also going to assume that given his lack of cooperation, like 999 out of 1000 people who begin physically resisting a lawful detention, he put his hands underneath of him. If you can't get to my hands officer, you can't handcuff me. 

I'm going to assume the officer had concerns that the guy may have had a weapon under there (I would) and began striking him with the flashlight in order to gain compliance in order to get him restrained. Lots of cops have been killed by belly guns, knives and other weapons by folks who didn't want to be handcuffed.

The level of force he used was the same as if he had used a baton, a TASER, pepper spray or his fists. It just looks worse because we're not used to seeing people get hit with flashlights.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

No apologies needed my brother, I respect your opinion, everyone see's things their own way. 
I actually have a co-worker that was there, We, just now, were talking about it. He said "Donovan is an asshole, he deserved it". "If you would have been there, youd know, he is a rowdy drinker".
I can sit here and say it looked a little extreme, especially the "throat grab" at 4;20, but I wasn't there, and we cant see them on the ground in front of the car.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Deebo said:


> No apologies needed my brother, I respect your opinion, everyone see's things their own way.
> I actually have a co-worker that was there, We, just now, were talking about it. He said "Donovan is an asshole, he deserved it". "If you would have been there, youd know, he is a rowdy drinker".
> I can sit here and say it looked a little extreme, especially the "throat grab" at 4;20, but I wasn't there, and we cant see them on the ground in front of the car.


The throat grab comes from the philosophy that if someone can't breath, they can't fight you (think pepper spray). I have used the throat grab in the past, but not to block the airway, simply to control the head and usually to get someone away from me. It's a great leverage point to gain control. That's the "where the head goes, the body follows" philosophy. But you have to be careful. Messing with the airway, injuring the airway can turn a "non-lethal" situation into a lethal situation so I never, ever, attempted to deprive someone of oxygen to gain control over them. Bad Karma.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Yes, that is all fine and dandy when you are brawling, but it is not when dealing with the public. There is no excuse. Donovan was swatting the flashlight being pressed into his throat. That much was clear as a bell.

Furthermore, it is not at all acceptable to use a mag light in lieu of a baton. One is made for striking, the other is not. It damned sure isn't right to beat someone in the head with it. Period. Not, unless one truly in fear for one's life. In that case, all is fair.

It seems all too apparent that police violence has increased since the early 90's when I stepped out of the "injustice" system. Furthermore, we are seeing more and more instances of police exercising "authority" that would appall those who came decades before them. Before you suggest it is because of everyone's ability to video tape everyone else's every move, I am referring to the general attitude.

Remember the excuses for this and other instances, and don't be surprised when someone uses the same ones when they get wind of when it happens to you. Me? I still expect discipline and restraint, and I expect police officers to use their brains before they go to laying hands. I hope it never happens to you, though. I can tell you from personal experience, those cops who think they are beyond anything but force won't be gentle or kind.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Sorry, been "brewing on this for a few minutes"-
Some indians are drunks, and they are a pain in the ass. True.
Some white people are drunks, and they are a pain in the ass. True.
Does that mean that anyone shoul;d be treated differently?
Anyone , ANYONE, here ever had a few to many beers, what would you do, if you walked out of a bar and were treated like this. "Well" he was drunk- so, does that make him less of person. 
Watch the video again, imagine that the drunk being pushed around was you. Now, just for a second, imagine if it was your son. OR your wife? 
Its ok, as long as it doesn't happen to me?


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## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

I got a ticket today for an expired tag on my trailer and the cop started questioning me where I had been where I was going, so I asked him if he was stupid, and I knew right away he must have been because he said what??? well I its pretty damn obvious I'm driving North so I must be coming from the South then he asked me if I had a ( contact number) I told Him YES long pause and dirty look {again the stupid thing} well what your contact # {again stupid question} Well I don't give it out to just anybody. (about this time I can see he is really getting pissed) and he asks me if I think this is funny ( again a stupid question) well that depends. he says that depends on what. well how much is this ticket gonna cost me well its gonna be 105.00 dollars. About this time my cell phone rings I answer it Bla bla bla I hang up and said thats your wife she said you wont be home for 3 more hrs and to stop on by. Look on his face priceless. Best 105.00 dollars I ever spent.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I couldn't hear anything on the video, and I fast forwarded until seeing some contact. The officer erred badly in not cuffing the man quickly. That error put him in the position of using too much force for the situation as it appears. 

If this were my home town I'd be emailing a link to the video with detailed comments to my city council members and expect action. If it doesn't happen chances are some of them are up for election this year. Make it an issue.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Sorry, been "brewing on this for a few minutes"-
> Some indians are drunks, and they are a pain in the ass. True.
> Some white people are drunks, and they are a pain in the ass. True.
> Does that mean that anyone shoul;d be treated differently?
> ...


You forgot the part where the drunk was a suspect in an assault.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Sorry, infidel, so suspects are "ok to beat on"?



Ripon, I dont know for a fact, but I hear Donovan is drinking on taxpayers money now.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Officer Dale Frazier- fired by San Juan County Sheriffs dept.
Donovan Tanner- paid TWO HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Granted, I'm the kind of guy who has never been in more trouble than a traffic ticket, but I have found that if you treat the officer as a fellow human being you most likely won't have any problems.
Conversely, act like a jerk, get treated like one.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

After 24 years as a cop I can tell you that this is excessive force. The metal flashlight is being used as an impact weapon on the suspect's head. There is a reasonable likelihood that this action will result in serious bodily injury or death. The suspect is not using any level of force that would warrant this. The other officers are complicit in that they are allowing this behavior to continue without intervening on behalf of the suspect. 

I get mad at drunks too but I have never taken it personally, or as an affront to my "authority". The only authority I have is what is bestowed upon me by those I am sworn to protect. Force must be objectively reasonable. This isn't. He deserved to be fired. He made us all look like crap.


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## jesstheshow (Nov 18, 2013)

Welcome to the police state, ya'll.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Granted, I'm the kind of guy who has never been in more trouble than a traffic ticket, but I have found that if you treat the officer as a fellow human being you most likely won't have any problems.
> Conversely, act like a jerk, get treated like one.


I can't honestly say I never had any run in's with LE in my youth. I did learn at a very early age by watching stupid people that if you create an adversarial environment, this is what you will get in return. I saw many a ******* say, while handcuffed, take these damn things off and I'll whoop your ass! The cuffs never came off and by the time they hit the jail cell, they were bleeding. They must have tripped or something.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> After 24 years as a cop I can tell you that this is excessive force. The metal flashlight is being used as an impact weapon on the suspect's head. There is a reasonable likelihood that this action will result in serious bodily injury or death. The suspect is not using any level of force that would warrant this. The other officers are complicit in that they are allowing this behavior to continue without intervening on behalf of the suspect.
> 
> I get mad at drunks too but I have never taken it personally, or as an affront to my "authority". The only authority I have is what is bestowed upon me by those I am sworn to protect. Force must be objectively reasonable. This isn't. He deserved to be fired. He made us all look like crap.


 I like it. In another post I said I wont shoot the cops, if they do a home invasion on me, i'll sue. i dont want my wife and the 2 cats that end up sleepin with us each night hurt. I just think it should be about accountability. If a cop does some crime, beats a person with a flashlight say, he should lose the job, just like a asshole who spits in a burger at mcdonalds. Lie on a warrent, some 89 year old guy gets shot to pieces during a police raid, on a "meth lab", its murder. also the cop needs to go to the same general population, as the guys he sent away. Be fair.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

bigdogbuc said:


> Devils Advocate, so I'll apologize now, but his use of the flashlight was appropriate. It was no worse than if he were using an expandable baton (ASP).
> 
> You had an individual who was refusing to comply with lawful orders (keeping in mind we only see the amount of video the person who posted it wanted us to see), was told his detention was because he was a possible witness, and still attempted to flee. Once you are being told you are being detained/not free to leave, you're not. And the street is not a place to argue your court case. That's why they have court rooms.
> 
> ...


 your doin a lot of assuming. booooo


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Watch this video, as officer manhandles a drunk, pushes his flashlight against the guys throat, then beats him about the head with flashlight.
> Watch at around 4;22 when another cop rushes in and grabs handcuffed suspect by "the guzzle", then notices the dash cam light.
> I like how they are "tossing him around" telling him they are trying to help him.


It really isn't funny, it was 'baby' resistance (resisting acts against the person which were excessive to enact the arrest, basically cop did too much guy made feeble attempt to defend against it and got a whooping - I suspect that guy did that to someone else before the arrest - what I'm wondering is if the cop incited intentionally or just had low blood sugar). The cop used excessive force, quite simply he wasn't having it. The big guy moved slightly the wrong way. The whole thing was eye for eye though... cause the whole thing seemed to come out of the big guy bloodying up someone else, so the cop not only took the guy as a violent potential but also starting to test his resolve.

Police often use what a normal person views as excessive force, as cops are in the line and their lives are on trial daily. Excessive yes, but none of us are prophets. However unless we have evidece of greivous bodily harm, it is cruel punishment as opposed to excessive force. Apparently it is usually lawful for people to treat their kids and spouses like that as long as you don't leave marks. (if you leave marks it is battery - in this case they were in the flashlight.. not so sure what the bloodied guy got his batteries from)
Unless you see the whole picture it is hard to say if excessive force was used, imo, from what I saw, it seems that slightly excessive force was used, however, generally speaking, it was force+1 which is exactly what to expect from the police.

It'd be better if this thing had some after photos and more info on the initial incident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(crime)

From what I can tell the trooper put people at risk by triggering an adrenaline response in the subject. But I really don't know enough about what happened off camera, or why he waited to cuff him if a calm arrest was possible before getting to the cruiser? should he have put the guy in cuffs immediately if there was any compliance, which it appeared there was and the scene was calm?


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

This is true. I started in LE at age 19. A month after I was hired another 19 year old was hired and the only difference between us was about 30lbs. We even looked a like and some joked we were brothers. About a year into the job I was in court with my twin and he disclosed how much he hated going to court. So much so that if he stopped someone and they protested the reason (think traffic) he'd tell them not to do it again and let them go out of fear of ending up in court. The funny thing was I was the opposite. If people protested to me I felt like they didn't get it.

One day I pulled over a local for running a stop sign. He looked at me and said, "which one are you".



rice paddy daddy said:


> Granted, I'm the kind of guy who has never been in more trouble than a traffic ticket, but I have found that if you treat the officer as a fellow human being you most likely won't have any problems.
> Conversely, act like a jerk, get treated like one.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Sorry, infidel, so suspects are "ok to beat on"?
> 
> .


 Put words in other peoples mouths much?



Deebo said:


> Officer Dale Frazier- fired by San Juan County Sheriffs dept.
> Donovan Tanner- paid TWO HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.


Officer Dale Frazier, fired- good. 
Donavan Tanner, paid two hundred fifty thousand dollars-bad, he should be in jail.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Denton said:


> Yes, that is all fine and dandy when you are brawling, but it is not when dealing with the public. There is no excuse. Donovan was swatting the flashlight being pressed into his throat. That much was clear as a bell.
> 
> Furthermore, it is not at all acceptable to use a mag light in lieu of a baton. One is made for striking, the other is not. It damned sure isn't right to beat someone in the head with it. Period. Not, unless one truly in fear for one's life. In that case, all is fair.
> 
> ...


Our society has become more violent as a whole. And as I have indicated in the past, and now as a FORMER law enforcement officer, I will ABSOLUTELY be the FIRST to denounce excessive use of force/appearances of a police state/violation of rights or the Constitution by police. I just don't see this as it.

There was a comment about not using a flashlight because it's not a baton. I can't remember if it was yours or not, but my response to it would be; Really?

"Excuse me sir, but could you cooperate and stop being aggressive long enough for me to remove my baton? You see, it's dark out and I needed to use my flashlight to help me see your hands and stuff for my safety. I have a wife and kids at home so I try to be safe. Anyway, when you decided to be uncooperative and resist my lawful detention of you, and now that I'm pretty concerned you're going to assault me, I have decided that I want to protect myself and gain your compliance by using primary, secondary and tertiary strikes with my baton that I've been trained and certified in. I might even throw in some compliance holds with it as well. But since I'm holding my flashlight, and some members of the public might be offended by my using it to hit you with in order to protect myself from your unlawful behavior, I would like to put it away and transition to my baton. Would that be okay with you sir?"

I mean, ****, REALLY? I'm throwing the bullshit flag way up in the air on this one.

And, I try not to attract the attention of law enforcement by acting like an asshole in public. I guess all it takes is acting like a law abiding citizen.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

oldmurph58 said:


> your doin a lot of assuming. booooo


Actually Murph, I'm speaking from experience. Up until 2 weeks ago, I was a cop as well. A Heart Attack in October finished that up for me for good. Seems I bleed too much when cut with all these neat meds I get to take now.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

Arizona Infidel said:


> Put words in other peoples mouths much?
> 
> Officer Dale Frazier, fired- good.
> Donavan Tanner, paid two hundred fifty thousand dollars-bad, he should be in jail.


Rare the firing and judgement, but deserved. thank you deebo! you made my whole week posting the action against that asshold


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

bigdogbuc said:


> Actually Murph, I'm speaking from experience. Up until 2 weeks ago, I was a cop as well. A Heart Attack in October finished that up for me for good. Seems I bleed too much when cut with all these neat meds I get to take now.


 In Boston they used to teach the "lamb method" strike to the elbows, knees, shoulder;stuff like that. The main idea is if you smash someones head in with your flashlight, baton,etc. you could kill them. i think if i can remember the guys first name was Arthur i'll do a search. Apparently your instructor "knew" it was safe, to bash in heads. i mean these primary,secondary, and teritary targets that i'm trusting you to hit, Its not deadly force is it? Its sound judgement? i'm wonderin if i should toss the bullshit flag too, but i guess not. its o.k. for cops to smash heads in, he wont be turning a bullshit case into another murder huh? if he's certified to do it.
I was right its not a good idea to smash someone's head with your baton. Look up the lamb method of useing the police baton, Boston police dept, 1977 bigdogbuc you rascal, you had me, goin. troll! If a cop does what you described he might turn a bullshit case into murder. How long was the teacher KGB? Note to self, sometimes police lie too


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## Nuklhed (Feb 17, 2013)

That's such a fantastic example of, "Punish and Torture." 

Wait...I think I got the motto wrong. Anyone else help me out?


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## Nuklhed (Feb 17, 2013)

it also looks a lot like reckless endangerment and Class A felony assault.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The cop made an assumption that this was the guy who was fighting earlier - he had no evidence to back that up. He assumed the guy was lying to him - normal for a cop to do so it is understandable but far from acceptable. The cop seemed to be using excessive force - I wasn't there and couldn't see what happened off camera so there might have been cause. What I did see on camera was excessive. 

Everybody can have a bad day but if there was a history of this kind of incident then the cop was a menace. The cop was fired and the city lost a civil suit over the incident so I feel justified in saying this was probably not the only time this officer used excessive force. The cop behaved just like I would have - which is one of the reasons I never wanted to be a cop. It takes a very special person to be a good cop. You deal with people who blatantly lie to you every day and you only deal with people who berate you because you caught them doing something wrong. After about a month of this I would be killing jaywalkers and speeders just so I didn't have to listen to their lies anymore.

Now, aren't you glad I'm a minister instead of a cop?


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## Nuklhed (Feb 17, 2013)

I guess the suspected criminal's safety doesn't enter into it. So much for innocent until proven guilty.

More like, guilty so I'm allowed to beat you with whatever means I got certified in, irrespective of the level of force necessary.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Nuklhed,
I think you are adding more than what was stated. I don't remember anyone saying anything was "justified" in this case.

It is easy to misunderstand a persons post. I find it better to give the poster the benefit of the doubt - as you say ... innocent until proven guilty?


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

PaulS said:


> Nuklhed,
> I think you are adding more than what was stated. I don't remember anyone saying anything was "justified" in this case.
> 
> It is easy to misunderstand a persons post. I find it better to give the poster the benefit of the doubt - as you say ... innocent until proven guilty?


 Your right paul. Sadder still is when some cops use there "love" of family as a excuse for bruality, once fired for that, people start giving the wife the finger when shes shoppin. The kids get taunted at school, maybe beat up goin home, no more fat paycheck to buy things, hard times for them all. I think if they really loved their family, they wouldn't do what they do. Anger and not being able to control it, well. I watched the tape. The area was pretty well lit, the guy was drunk, and walking off, hands empty.
The cop did wrong and his whole family pay's, good lesson for the Leo's. Once you are a disgraced cop, all the ex cons, drunk drivers, junkie's know, and like any varmint, you can be hunted any time. No licence needed.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

Denton said:


> Yes, that is all fine and dandy when you are brawling, but it is not when dealing with the public. There is no excuse. Donovan was swatting the flashlight being pressed into his throat. That much was clear as a bell.
> 
> Furthermore, it is not at all acceptable to use a mag light in lieu of a baton. One is made for striking, the other is not. It damned sure isn't right to beat someone in the head with it. Period. Not, unless one truly in fear for one's life. In that case, all is fair.
> 
> ...


I think this is one of your best posts.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

Arizona Infidel said:


> Put words in other peoples mouths much?
> 
> Officer Dale Frazier, fired- good.
> Donavan Tanner, paid two hundred fifty thousand dollars-bad, he should be in jail.


 They needed to send a message to the leo's, and the politians, thats why the money judgemant, pisses the boss off, having to pay, so i vote good.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

oldmurph58 said:


> They needed to send a message to the leo's, and the politians, *thats why the money judgemant, pisses the boss off, having to pay*, so i vote good.


Problem is the "Bosses" don't pay shit, it's the tax payer that pays, as usual. As far as politicians they never pay for their wrong doings, at best they loose a good job, but most have stolen enough while in office or got enough dirt on others that they get good jobs after any how.

If the cop has stooped to such tactics/abuse of power that they loose their jobs they already proved they don't care about others, family included. It's all about them.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

ekim said:


> Problem is the "Bosses" don't pay shit, it's the tax payer that pays, as usual. As far as politicians they never pay for their wrong doings, at best they loose a good job, but most have stolen enough while in office or got enough dirt on others that they get good jobs after any how.
> 
> If the cop has stooped to such tactics/abuse of power that they loose their jobs they already proved they don't care about others, family included. It's all about them.


 With you 100%


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't care if the suspect murdered a carload of toddlers. It is not the Officers place to punish him. That's up to the jury. The officer can only use the minimum amount of force necessary to affect the arrest. The use of an impact weapon against this man's throat and head are absolutely excessive. The suspect received a huge settlement but I wonder how much of that was punitive fines coming out of the Officer's pocket. The city is going to be held accountable as well. They'll cite inadequate training, poor background investigations etc. but they won't pay all of that.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

csi-tech you seem to call it like you see it good for you


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## Nuklhed (Feb 17, 2013)

Backwards Mike, I'm on board with you. For this type of behavior to be allowed, failures at the top have already occurred within the organization.


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