# 63% Of Illegals Use Welfare



## RedLion

in the U.S. with 70% using it after being in the U.S. for 10 years.....



> Census confirms: 63 percent of 'non-citizens' on welfare, 4.6 million households





> In a new analysis of the latest numbers, from 2014, 63 percent of non-citizens are using a welfare program, and it grows to 70 percent for those here 10 years or more, confirming another concern that once immigrants tap into welfare, they don't get off it.


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/census-confirms-63-percent-of-non-citizens-on-welfare-4-6-million-households

All part of the lefty globalist elite's plan to replace American citizens with whoever they can have as slaves. The following article hits the nail on the head.....



> Is globalism the new feudalism?


https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/12/is_globalism_the_new_feudalism.html


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## Prepared One

Money, and most of all power. They want all of it and will have it, once they have the guns.


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## RedLion

Prepared One said:


> Money, and most of all power. They want all of it and will have it, once they have the guns.


You are speaking truth about their desires, but they are so delusional to think that the taking the guns in the U.S. will ever work. I refer you to the thread about the military warning about an EMP threat and the need for the globalists elites to devastate the U.S. before they could hope to conquer it.....


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## WhatTheHeck

I hear a lot of leftists who claim illegals contribute to the local economies even though they do not pay taxes.

Then I read reports like this.

Recently read a report saying Social Security is in big trouble as in 2010 we fell to the 2.8 workers to 1 beneficiaries and it is projected to fall even further. Note: in order to be viable there has to be at a minimum 3 workers to every 1 beneficiary. 

Meanwhile, you have these illegals not only not contributing, but also taking at the same time. 

In short, we are running out of money.


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## The Tourist

Well, here's a chance to cut 63% of the entitlements. Turn ICE loose...


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## RedLion

WhatTheHeck said:


> I hear a lot of leftists who claim illegals contribute to the local economies even though they do not pay taxes.
> 
> Then I read reports like this.
> 
> Recently read a report saying Social Security is in big trouble as in 2010 we fell to the 2.8 workers to 1 beneficiaries and it is projected to fall even further. Note: in order to be viable there has to be at a minimum 3 workers to every 1 beneficiary.
> 
> Meanwhile, you have these illegals not only not contributing, but also taking at the same time.
> 
> In short, we are running out of money.


Another favorite lie of lefties is that illegals are more law-abiding then citizens, when the truth is the opposite.


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## NewRiverGeorge

How do non citizens qualify for government benefits? Can I apply for healthcare and food stamps from Canada or Germany??


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## Mad Trapper

Well everybody is praising Bush in eulogy, he did squat about borders, and was from Texas, does that make him a Texican?

Ike was the last USA President.






P.S. Neil is a pinko liberal from Kanuckland but the song fits


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## Mad Trapper

NewRiverGeorge said:


> How do non citizens qualify for government benefits? Can I apply for healthcare and food stamps from Canada or Germany??


No Hablo Ingles?


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## Illini Warrior

I don't know about the gooberment side of the freebies >>>> but I know the church and civic free food pantries had to institute ID checks for local residency ...

it was mostly the ethnics, like the Hispanics, that had daily routes during the week hitting all the free pantries - and they'd load up the vehicles and everyone claimed a household portion ...


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## Sasquatch

Illini Warrior said:


> I don't know about the gooberment side of the freebies >>>> but I know the church and civic free food pantries had to institute ID checks for local residency ...
> 
> it was mostly the ethnics, like the Hispanics, that had daily routes during the week hitting all the free pantries - and they'd load up the vehicles and everyone claimed a household portion ...


They also take that stuff and sell it at swap meets or garage sales. At least they do in CA. Glad my tax dollars supply their inventory.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Camel923

No shock there. More recipients, bigger budget needed, more people, bigger department, more prestigious inside the belt way. Should be cut and if sanctuary cities want to tax more for extra give always, let them. Watch how Many more Detroits are created.


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## ekim

Give them a break, their in training to be politicians. Got to learn how to steal like the pros.


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## Illini Warrior

Sasquatch said:


> They also take that stuff and sell it at swap meets or garage sales. At least they do in CA. Glad my tax dollars supply their inventory.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


they must trade for other stuff at least - good run during the day and a car of six will have a hundred or more pounds of potatoes - 20 loaves of bread - maybe 150-200 misc cans of food - bushels and bushels of fresh veggies & fruit during the season ....


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## RedLion

Surprise that CA is worse than any other state.



> Study: More than 7-in-10 California Immigrant Households Are on Welfare


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/04/study-more-than-7-in-10-california-immigrant-households-are-on-welfare/


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## Traxxas

RedLion said:


> in the U.S. with 70% using it after being in the U.S. for 10 years.....
> 
> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/census-confirms-63-percent-of-non-citizens-on-welfare-4-6-million-households
> 
> All part of the lefty globalist elite's plan to replace American citizens with whoever they can have as slaves. The following article hits the nail on the head.....
> 
> https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/12/is_globalism_the_new_feudalism.html


After 10 years both legal and illegal immigrants are using welfare at a rate of 70% as stated in your link. It increases over time.



> In a new analysis of the latest numbers, from 2014, 63 percent of non-citizens are using a welfare program, and it grows to 70 percent for those here 10 years or more, confirming another concern that once immigrants tap into welfare, they don't get off it.


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## Traxxas

WhatTheHeck said:


> I hear a lot of leftists who claim illegals contribute to the local economies even though they do not pay taxes.
> 
> Then I read reports like this.
> 
> Recently read a report saying Social Security is in big trouble as in 2010 we fell to the 2.8 workers to 1 beneficiaries and it is projected to fall even further. Note: in order to be viable there has to be at a minimum 3 workers to every 1 beneficiary.
> 
> Meanwhile, you have these illegals not only not contributing, but also taking at the same time.
> 
> In short, we are running out of money.


Illegal workers (includes non-matching citizens numbers with last names) SS/Medicare taxes do not go into the SS fund, they go into the Electronic Suspense File. Half of all money is contributed by the employer, so the $12B in the fund is cut to $6 after employer deduction. They say about 65% of illegals are working so then they may have contributed about $3.5B over the course of this suspense files life, decades. Illegals can also obtain SS later when they retire and they can prove they used that number and that name as long as their country and the US has what is called an Totalization Agreement. https://www.google.com/search?q=totalization+agreement&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1


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## Prepared One

Unless I have missed it, not one word spoken about this by the MSM.


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## The Resister

RedLion said:


> in the U.S. with 70% using it after being in the U.S. for 10 years.....
> 
> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/census-confirms-63-percent-of-non-citizens-on-welfare-4-6-million-households
> 
> All part of the lefty globalist elite's plan to replace American citizens with whoever they can have as slaves. The following article hits the nail on the head.....
> 
> https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/12/is_globalism_the_new_feudalism.html


Don't like to sound like a broken record, but the article deals with "_non-citizens_." Our laws need to be changed to reflect that if a person cannot afford to be here and provide for themselves, maybe their so - called legal status should be changed to deportable alien.


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## RedLion

The Resister said:


> Don't like to sound like a broken record, but the article deals with "_non-citizens_." Our laws need to be changed to reflect that if a person cannot afford to be here and provide for themselves, maybe their so - called legal status should be changed to deportable alien.


Outside of cases in which people are truly fleeing persecution like the Hmong, all immigration should be merit based and legal to include that they must be able to fully support themselves within a prescribed time limit.


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## StratMaster

Sasquatch said:


> They also take that stuff and sell it at swap meets or garage sales. At least they do in CA. Glad my tax dollars supply their inventory.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I just moved to a new town (Medford Oregon) and in looking about I found one of those civic free food pantries as well. Saw a Hispanic guy in the lot with a huge late model SUV I wouldn't want to afford $$$$, and assumed he must be there to donate. No. He was loading up his huge, expensive vehicle with free donated produce and canned food. TWO shopping carts worth. I now take my donations (from rotated food stocks) to a ministry food bank/laundry around the corner... these louts seem too embarrassed to go there.


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## The Resister

RedLion said:


> Outside of cases in which people are truly fleeing persecution like the Hmong, all immigration should be merit based and legal to include that they must be able to fully support themselves within a prescribed time limit.


I thought the subject was about people getting welfare, not about who should be able to come here. Since you brought it up:

If immigration should be merit based (how people can serve the citizenry), should we not discourage homosexuality since gay men account for 67 percent of the AIDS cases in America?

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html

How does it serve the citizenry for gays to have equal Rights when they end up costing taxpayers a disproportionate amount of tax money?


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## Slippy

I'd prefer that we in the US clean up the mess that exists before we allow ANYBODY into the US for at least 10 years.


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## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> I thought the subject was about people getting welfare, not about who should be able to come here. Since you brought it up:
> 
> If immigration should be merit based (how people can serve the citizenry), should we not discourage homosexuality since gay men account for 67 percent of the AIDS cases in America?
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html
> 
> How does it serve the citizenry for gays to have equal Rights when they end up costing taxpayers a disproportionate amount of tax money?


I don't have a horse in this race, or a hobbyhorse to ride... gay or otherwise LOL. But I like to argue, as I am an old curmudgeon. How do you demonstrate that gay men cost the TAXPAYERS a disproportionate amount of money? What if gay men, by and large, have private insurance? You could then make an argument that they are driving our insurance premiums up... but then don't straight cigarette smokers do so as well? Hmmm.


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## StratMaster

Slippy said:


> I'd prefer that we in the US clean up the mess that exists before we allow ANYBODY into the US for at least 10 years.


Slippy in 2024!


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## RedLion

The Resister said:


> I thought the subject was about people getting welfare, not about who should be able to come here. Since you brought it up:
> 
> If immigration should be merit based (how people can serve the citizenry), should we not discourage homosexuality since gay men account for 67 percent of the AIDS cases in America?
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html
> 
> How does it serve the citizenry for gays to have equal Rights when they end up costing taxpayers a disproportionate amount of tax money?


You are quite the shifty fool.


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## RedLion

Slippy said:


> I'd prefer that we in the US clean up the mess that exists before we allow ANYBODY into the US for at least 10 years.


Sounds good to me. We also have millions of illegals and others to boot out of the country during the time as well.


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## The Tourist

I'd love a wall as much as anyone. That is, if the illegals would look at the wall (read the sign in nine different languages) and then walk home. My thinking has changed.

As you know, a small cadre' of illegals tried to crash the barrier and enter the USA forcefully. We used tear gas, and the matter ended. But will it be the same next time?

What if four times the number try to run over our police and soldiers. We can all imagine what's going to happen.

To paraphrase Leonidas, _"Soros, may you live forever..."_


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## ekim

RedLion said:


> You are quite the shifty fool.


I'm not sure about the shifty part.


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## The Resister

Slippy said:


> I'd prefer that we in the US clean up the mess that exists before we allow ANYBODY into the US for at least 10 years.


I'll support the idea of no more immigration, at least until we get the issues sorted out and the problem under control whether it's one year, 10 or more.


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## The Resister

RedLion said:


> You are quite the shifty fool.


Thank you?


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## The Resister

ekim said:


> I'm not sure about the shifty part.


You've been thanking a fool. I'm not sure about you.


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## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> I don't have a horse in this race, or a hobbyhorse to ride... gay or otherwise LOL. But I like to argue, as I am an old curmudgeon. How do you demonstrate that gay men cost the TAXPAYERS a disproportionate amount of money? What if gay men, by and large, have private insurance? You could then make an argument that they are driving our insurance premiums up... but then don't straight cigarette smokers do so as well? Hmmm.


How do I demonstrate the cost it takes to treat AIDS? Maybe I'll do a thread on that one. If it cost "_taxpayers_" to provide for undocumented foreigners, then it would cost taxpayers to pay for the medical care of those who engage in risky behavior like homosexuality and drug use. Those people reach a point where they are taking more out of the system than they paid into it and I was responding to the notion that citizenship should be merit based.

I'm an old curmudgeon like you. Just like you, I realize that until we get Universal Health Care, taxpayers do not fund the healthcare of undocumented foreigners, AIDS patients, or drug users. Hospitals get that money from those who use the services. *NOBODY* is treated for free. They bill the person who receives the services.

That brings us back to a system where citizenship is based upon merit. Why not return to the qualifications set up by the founders?


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## ekim

The Resister said:


> You've been thanking a fool. I'm not sure about you.


I'm sure about you though. IMO you are a fool. Guess who I just quoted? Do you get it?


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## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> Our laws need to be changed to reflect that if a person cannot afford to be here and provide for themselves





RedLion said:


> all immigration should be merit based and legal to include that they must be able to fully support themselves within a prescribed time limit.


Federal law already states that visa holders are to be denied federal benefits with very few exceptions for the first 5 years, while refugees and asylees are barred for 7 years. States have their own laws regarding welfare to their residents. Both federal and states changed their welfare applications to not ask the legal status of the person applying, thus they circumvent their own laws.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigrants-and-welfare-use/

https://inhomelandsecurity.com/the-impact-of-immigration-on-public-health-systems/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_health_care_in_the_United_States


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## The Resister

ekim said:


> I'm sure about you though. IMO you are a fool. Guess who I just quoted? Do you get it?


I don't know who you're quoting and too lazy to look it up. In your last post you were thanked by a troll, so that says a lot.


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## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> Federal law already states that visa holders are to be denied federal benefits with very few exceptions for the first 5 years, while refugees and asylees are barred for 7 years. States have their own laws regarding welfare to their residents. Both federal and states changed their welfare applications to not ask the legal status of the person applying, thus they circumvent their own laws.
> 
> https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigrants-and-welfare-use/
> 
> https://inhomelandsecurity.com/the-impact-of-immigration-on-public-health-systems/
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_health_care_in_the_United_States


I don't care if they've been X number of years or not. If they are not a citizen and they cannot afford themselves, I shouldn't have to.


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> I don't care if they've been X number of years or not. If they are not a citizen and they cannot afford themselves, I shouldn't have to.


While I am against uncontrolled migration, legal or not, into any nation, I am also against federal "welfare" for anyone in this nation. Such a thing should be up to state and local governments if not churches and other organizations that can tell the difference between the truly needy and the malingerers. But, that is for another thread, I suppose.


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## ekim

The Resister said:


> I don't know who you're quoting and too lazy to look it up. In your last post you were thanked by a troll, so that says a lot.


I'll clear it up for you; the only thank you I got was from you so you just called yourself a troll. Try reading my post and find the only "Thank you" i got. Stupid, lazy and a troll, does that about sum it up about you or not. Just repeating what you said about yourself. Please just go away, and do yourself a favor.


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## The Resister

ekim said:


> I'll clear it up for you; the only thank you I got was from you so you just called yourself a troll. Try reading my post and find the only "Thank you" i got. Stupid, lazy and a troll, does that about sum it up about you or not. Just repeating what you said about yourself. Please just go away, and do yourself a favor.


You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. Recheck who Liked your post aimed at me. If you're insinuating I'm stupid, lazy, or a troll then what I would say in response to you would get me banned. I don't have the same degree of latitude that you do. But, let us suppose I'm stupid... then you should school those like me:

The most *effective and active* (hard-working) patriots who have sacrificed the most are now exiting the movement (for lack of a more descriptive adjective) due to the rhetoric, attitudes and proposed solutions the people you want to hang with. If you're losing ground, how is that a smart strategy? BTW, Ammon Bundy was the latest fighter to separate from the poseurs you think hung the moon.

Oh, and when I have something you think is noteworthy, you thank me? Then you try to tell me to go away? Dude, for real, you have some serious issues.


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## ekim

The Resister said:


> You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. Recheck who Liked your post aimed at me. If you're insinuating I'm stupid, lazy, or a troll then what I would say in response to you would get me banned. I don't have the same degree of latitude that you do. But, let us suppose I'm stupid... then you should school those like me:
> 
> The most *effective and active* (hard-working) patriots who have sacrificed the most are now exiting the movement (for lack of a more descriptive adjective) due to the rhetoric, attitudes and proposed solutions the people you want to hang with. If you're losing ground, how is that a smart strategy? BTW, Ammon Bundy was the latest fighter to separate from the poseurs you think hung the moon.
> 
> Oh, and when I have something you think is noteworthy, you thank me? Then you try to tell me to go away? Dude, for real, you have some serious issues.


No issues, I just don't like you and your dumb posts. Thank you's to you are few and far between from me and will not happen again regardless what you post from now on. And no I don't put anyone on ignore, free speech and all.


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## The Resister

ekim said:


> No issues, I just don't like you and your dumb posts. Thank you's to you are few and far between from me and will not happen again regardless what you post from now on. And no I don't put anyone on ignore, free speech and all.


It's your choice, dude, but you should try to stick to the topic instead of the personality contest. And if you have a problem with me, PM works fine. You like "_dumb_" posts from someone you don't like. And you think I'm the fool. Dr. Phil is always looking for guests. You would make his season.


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## Denton

ekim said:


> I'll clear it up for you; the only thank you I got was from you so you just called yourself a troll. Try reading my post and find the only "Thank you" i got. Stupid, lazy and a troll, does that about sum it up about you or not. Just repeating what you said about yourself. Please just go away, and do yourself a favor.


He's not a troll. He's real. He just can't seem to see himself. Give him time. He's got a couple-three decades before his expiration date. Maybe he'll figure it out before then. 
A little faith ain't a bad thing.


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## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> I don't care if they've been X number of years or not. If they are not a citizen and they cannot afford themselves, I shouldn't have to.


I agree, legal or illegal should not be receiving any sort of welfare, to include when they have a child here.


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## ekim

Denton said:


> He's not a troll. He's real. He just can't seem to see himself. Give him time. He's got a couple-three decades before his expiration date. Maybe he'll figure it out before then.
> A little faith ain't a bad thing.


Some times I troll, I admit. Am I real, sorry but yes. I see me for who and what I am. Give time me for what, at my age I'm not changing. As far as decades, maybe not, whats to figure out, faith in what. This is what you get, me as I am.


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## Denton

ekim said:


> Some times I troll, I admit. Am I real, sorry but yes. I see me for who and what I am. Give time me for what, at my age I'm not changing. As far as decades, maybe not, whats to figure out, faith in what. This is what you get, me as I am.


Not you, you crazy bastard. @The Resister. 
He's not a troll, either. You're good.
Resister is real, too. 
Call me stupid, but I believe he'll get over himself one day and will be able to have a normal conversation. I'm thinking it'll be soon. He's very smart. He just needs time to digest knowledge. Once he digests it, he's good to go. He just needs earnest people who won't turn on him.


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## ekim

Denton said:


> Not you, you crazy bastard. @The Resister.
> He's not a troll, either. You're good.
> Resister is real, too.
> Call me stupid, but I believe he'll get over himself one day and will be able to have a normal conversation. I'm thinking it'll be soon. He's very smart. He just needs time to digest knowledge. Once he digests it, he's good to go. He just needs earnest people who won't turn on him.


Nice read. You believe what you want and I'll do the same. Some people believe their government and the police and a lot of people are dead or in jail. Both those two agencies can also lie to you / the people legally also. I know he real and that's what scares me about him, cause he believes the crap he says. Just like a politician he says crap that makes people "FEEL" good, but he is just another lying liberal, IMO.


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## Denton

ekim said:


> Nice read. You believe what you want and I'll do the same. Some people believe their government and the police and a lot of people are dead or in jail. Both those two agencies can also lie to you / the people legally also. I know he real and that's what scares me about him, cause he believes the crap he says. Just like a politician he says crap that makes people "FEEL" good, but he is just another lying liberal, IMO.


Brother, people live and they learn. That's what we do, until we die. Living ain't easy, and neither is learning.


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## ekim

Denton said:


> Brother, people live and they learn. That's what we do, until we die. Living ain't easy, and neither is learning.


Only some learn no matter how long they live. The world has seen way to many that never learned and they died that way along with a lot of other people that believed them.

I guess we are a lot alike on many things, but you seem to be positive about life and I am more realistic about things. I do have some hope but I'm not holding my breath.


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## Denton

ekim said:


> Only some learn no matter how long they live. The world has seen way to many that never learned and they died that way along with a lot of other people that believed them.


I reckon you are right, but it ain't for me to judge who stops learning too soon.


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## ekim

Denton said:


> I reckon you are right, but it ain't for me to judge who stops learning too soon.


You don't have to judge, just listen to them and you will know. Start with politicians s they are the easiest.


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## The Resister

ekim said:


> Nice read. You believe what you want and I'll do the same. Some people believe their government and the police and a lot of people are dead or in jail. Both those two agencies can also lie to you / the people legally also. I know he real and that's what scares me about him, cause he believes the crap he says. Just like a politician he says crap that makes people "FEEL" good, but he is just another lying liberal, IMO.


I can only promise you that you would *never*, under any circumstances, call me a liberal to my face. That is simply a fact. I'm not a part of the system so I do not believe what the Democrats NOR the Republicans say... and I don't vote for Democrats.

What I say to everybody on this board are things I genuinely feel. Throughout the time I've been on the Internet ( a piece of technology that I have yet to master) somebody has called me both a liberal and white nationalist... in the same thread! Every time I get onto a thread people are hurling accusations at me. What I personally find ironic is that in the more than a decade and a half of my following these discussion boards *NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER ASKED ME WHERE I STAND*. All of those accusations and not one person has had the intelligence and / or decency to ask where I stand.

People can say a lot of things, but if anyone wants to know where I stand, the info is out there. Here are a couple of examples:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/usmilitias/immigration-debacle-the-truth-at-last-t110.html

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/usmilitias/a-very-personal-message-t77.html

I am the only Internet poster in America that merits his very own 24 / 7 / 365 days a year stalker, paid for by YOUR government. By contrast:

1) The few who bother to try and criticize me want to spend *FIVE BILLION DOLLARS* to erect a wall along the southern border of the United States, and if they had it, that wall would only affect about 40 percent of the people they call "illegal" aliens

2) In arguing the economic costs of this alleged immigration, when it's convenient, these guys call people who are here legally "_illegals_" so as to bolster their cause. The liberals don't try to mislead you. They want socialism; they want to flood America with the third world

3) Those who obsess over the erection of a wall around the United States are terrible at math. They cannot understand that immigration* is* profitable for big corporations. So, why would big corporations (and big money like Trump) go along with the wall idea? They realize that most of this stuff will be shot down in the United States Supreme Court if the liberals fail to take the right down in the next presidential cycle

4) If you look at it objectively, the Republicans are *NOT* political strategists. Just like on this board, the right fights each other as if those who don't toe the line and chant the right mantra are the enemy incarnate. In primaries they talk to each other the same way people like ekim talks to me. In the run-off, the Democrats pick up the criticisms that the Republicans leveled at each other and use it as their weapon against the run-off candidate. I fail to see the "_wisdom_" of such strategies... ESPECIALLY when a look at the election results over the last five election cycles (the two year cycles), in areas where Republicans were slaughtering the opposition, they are now winning with *less* than a single percent of the vote!

Unfortunately, it is impossible to give you the findings of my research. Then again, in the last fifteen years, it is more important for me to chant the mantra rather than to have a discussion and delve into the possibility that the right is being used by the left in a well thought plan to make useful idiots out of us without us having the courage or the intelligence to even discuss the possibility.


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## ekim

The Resister said:


> I can only promise you that you would *never*, under any circumstances, call me a liberal to my face. That is simply a fact. I'm not a part of the system so I do not believe what the Democrats NOR the Republicans say... and I don't vote for Democrats.
> 
> What I say to everybody on this board are things I genuinely feel. Throughout the time I've been on the Internet ( a piece of technology that I have yet to master) somebody has called me both a liberal and white nationalist... in the same thread! Every time I get onto a thread people are hurling accusations at me. What I personally find ironic is that in the more than a decade and a half of my following these discussion boards *NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER ASKED ME WHERE I STAND*. All of those accusations and not one person has had the intelligence and / or decency to ask where I stand.
> 
> People can say a lot of things, but if anyone wants to know where I stand, the info is out there. Here are a couple of examples:
> 
> https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/usmilitias/immigration-debacle-the-truth-at-last-t110.html
> 
> https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/usmilitias/a-very-personal-message-t77.html
> 
> I am the only Internet poster in America that merits his very own 24 / 7 / 365 days a year stalker, paid for by YOUR government. By contrast:
> 
> 1) The few who bother to try and criticize me want to spend *FIVE BILLION DOLLARS* to erect a wall along the southern border of the United States, and if they had it, that wall would only affect about 40 percent of the people they call "illegal" aliens
> 
> 2) In arguing the economic costs of this alleged immigration, when it's convenient, these guys call people who are here legally "_illegals_" so as to bolster their cause. The liberals don't try to mislead you. They want socialism; they want to flood America with the third world
> 
> 3) Those who obsess over the erection of a wall around the United States are terrible at math. They cannot understand that immigration* is* profitable for big corporations. So, why would big corporations (and big money like Trump) go along with the wall idea? They realize that most of this stuff will be shot down in the United States Supreme Court if the liberals fail to take the right down in the next presidential cycle
> 
> 4) If you look at it objectively, the Republicans are *NOT* political strategists. Just like on this board, the right fights each other as if those who don't toe the line and chant the right mantra are the enemy incarnate. In primaries they talk to each other the same way people like ekim talks to me. In the run-off, the Democrats pick up the criticisms that the Republicans leveled at each other and use it as their weapon against the run-off candidate. I fail to see the "_wisdom_" of such strategies... ESPECIALLY when a look at the election results over the last five election cycles (the two year cycles), in areas where Republicans were slaughtering the opposition, they are now winning with *less* than a single percent of the vote!
> 
> Unfortunately, it is impossible to give you the findings of my research. Then again, in the last fifteen years, it is more important for me to chant the mantra rather than to have a discussion and delve into the possibility that the right is being used by the left in a well thought plan to make useful idiots out of us without us having the courage or the intelligence to even discuss the possibility.


Nice book, hope you enjoye typing it.


----------



## The Resister

ekim said:


> Only some learn no matter how long they live. The world has seen way to many that never learned and they died that way along with a lot of other people that believed them.
> 
> I guess we are a lot alike on many things, but you seem to be positive about life and I am more realistic about things. I do have some hope but I'm not holding my breath.


I am a person who* NEVER* stops learning. Two years ago I was sidelined due to some issues which required surgery. While rehabbing, I went back to school and finished my studies in theology. In September of this year we opened a church and by the first of next year, that will be fully functional. At a personal level, I generally read between three and five books a month. Then there is time spent going to other people's functions - meetings and so forth, to learn exactly where they are coming from and their strategies. How about you? Can you say you finished a course in *ANYTHING* in your sixties?

You can't read ten paragraphs. What can you possibly teach others with an attitude like that?


----------



## ekim

The Resister said:


> I am a person who* NEVER* stops learning. Two years ago I was sidelined due to some issues which required surgery. While rehabbing, I went back to school and finished my studies in theology. In September of this year we opened a church and by the first of next year, that will be fully functional. At a personal level, I generally read between three and five books a month. Then there is time spent going to other people's functions - meetings and so forth, to learn exactly where they are coming from and their strategies. How about you? Can you say you finished a course in *ANYTHING* in your sixties?
> 
> You can't read ten paragraphs. What can you possibly teach others with an attitude like that?


Did some one say something, oh something about teaching liberalism, never mind.


----------



## The Resister

ekim said:


> Did some one say something, oh something about teaching liberalism, never mind.


Many of my relatives are from Hazard and Evarts Kentucky. You sometimes sound lime them. Do all you folks out that way have the same thinking process?


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I am a person who* NEVER* stops learning. Two years ago I was sidelined due to some issues which required surgery. While rehabbing, I went back to school and finished my studies in theology. In September of this year we opened a church and by the first of next year, that will be fully functional. At a personal level, I generally read between three and five books a month. Then there is time spent going to other people's functions - meetings and so forth, to learn exactly where they are coming from and their strategies. How about you? Can you say you finished a course in *ANYTHING* in your sixties?
> 
> You can't read ten paragraphs. What can you possibly teach others with an attitude like that?


Brother, I have tried to teach you and you refuse to learn. Your recent posts prove it.
If you really want to learn, PM me.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> 1) The few who bother to try and criticize me want to spend *FIVE BILLION DOLLARS* to erect a wall along the southern border of the United States, and if they had it, that wall would only affect about 40 percent of the people they call "illegal" aliens


It's actually 60% of illegals are EWI. The wall would also stop/reduce that number from increasing and start that numbers decline.

_According to the report, in 2014, 42 percent of all undocumented persons in the U.S. were "overstays."_
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...der-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216



The Resister said:


> 2) In arguing the economic costs of this alleged immigration, when it's convenient, these guys call people who are here legally "_illegals_" so as to bolster their cause. The liberals don't try to mislead you. They want socialism; they want to flood America with the third world


Nobody calls legal immigrants illegal. The only time a legal immigrant becomes illegal is when they stay beyond their departure date and have an Order of Removal issued against them, then they are stated to be here illegally.



The Resister said:


> 3) Those who obsess over the erection of a wall around the United States are terrible at math. They cannot understand that immigration* is* profitable for big corporations. So, why would big corporations (and big money like Trump) go along with the wall idea? They realize that most of this stuff will be shot down in the United States Supreme Court if the liberals fail to take the right down in the next presidential cycle


It's not big corporations that knowingly higher illegals, it's small business and home owners such as yourself. Claiming SCOTUS will "_shoot down_" anything to do with the wall is your pipe dream.

_Trump can ignore environmental laws to build border wall after Supreme Court declines to hear challenge_
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/03/sup...-environmental-laws-to-build-border-wall.html



The Resister said:


> 4) If you look at it objectively, the Republicans are *NOT* political strategists. Just like on this board, the right fights each other as if those who don't toe the line and chant the right mantra are the enemy incarnate. In primaries they talk to each other the same way people like ekim talks to me. In the run-off, the Democrats pick up the criticisms that the Republicans leveled at each other and use it as their weapon against the run-off candidate. I fail to see the "_wisdom_" of such strategies... ESPECIALLY when a look at the election results over the last five election cycles (the two year cycles), in areas where Republicans were slaughtering the opposition, they are now winning with *less* than a single percent of the vote!


So where do actual issues come into play then? Like how Democrats won 40 House seats on Health Care and not really going after their opposition.



The Resister said:


> Unfortunately, it is impossible to give you the findings of my research. Then again, in the last fifteen years, it is more important for me to chant the mantra rather than to have a discussion and delve into the possibility that the right is being used by the left in a well thought plan to make useful idiots out of us without us having the courage or the intelligence to even discuss the possibility.


If anything you have stated/claimed above is from your findings from your research, you're not very good at research.


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> It's actually 60% of illegals are EWI. The wall would also stop/reduce that number from increasing and start that numbers decline.
> 
> _According to the report, in 2014, 42 percent of all undocumented persons in the U.S. were "overstays."_
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...der-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216
> 
> Nobody calls legal immigrants illegal. The only time a legal immigrant becomes illegal is when they stay beyond their departure date and have an Order of Removal issued against them, then they are stated to be here illegally.
> 
> It's not big corporations that knowingly higher illegals, it's small business and home owners such as yourself. Claiming SCOTUS will "_shoot down_" anything to do with the wall is your pipe dream.
> 
> _Trump can ignore environmental laws to build border wall after Supreme Court declines to hear challenge_
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/03/sup...-environmental-laws-to-build-border-wall.html
> 
> So where do actual issues come into play then? Like how Democrats won 40 House seats on Health Care and not really going after their opposition.
> 
> If anything you have stated/claimed above is from your findings from your research, you're not really to good at research.


And my own personal troll and full time stalker weighs in. Going to bed now, but I will argue with your later.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> I will argue with your later.


This is a discussion not an argument or debate, if you would stick to actual facts instead of bloviating and using hyperbole, it usually works much better.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> And my own personal troll and full time stalker weighs in. Going to bed now, but I will argue with your later.


Actually, he isn't a troll. His posts aren't centering around him and he isn't a drama queen.

Be damned; you just won't freaking learn.


----------



## StratMaster

Traxxas said:


> This is a discussion not an argument or debate, if you would stick to actual facts instead of bloviating and using hyperbole, it usually works much better.


And an opportunity to learn something new if we don't beat our chests too much. I have a pretty decent vocabulary being a writer, but I learned a new word from you: bloviate! Had to look it up LOL, love it. I think a term like "bloviating blowhard, hoist by his own petard" might be musical to the ear as well as useful in the future. OK, that's enough bourbon for me...


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Actually, he isn't a troll. His posts aren't centering around him and he isn't a drama queen.
> 
> Be damned; you just won't freaking learn.


I told you last night I have to be on the air at 10 am and the reason I was still "online" is that I left the computer going, minimized the screen and let the anti-virus run so that when we go on the air, I'm not fighting the many viruses that Traxxas sends in order to shut me down.

Traxxas comes here with a few words he learns from his handlers, but just to show your posters how easy it is for them to be had, they can now be introduced, once again, to Sergeant7402 who trolled me before and was banned from this site. He then registers here as "some random guy" when, in fact, he is here solely for the purpose of discrediting me and stalking me. On the board previous to this one, he was "WMD"

https://www.mymilitia.com/forums/topic/54890-seeing-whatswhos-here/?tab=comments#comment-68002

He gives the same B.S. line and once I leave a board, he leaves. Insofar as his story about being some "random" guy with a service record in the Army, that is total and absolute B.S. The guy has never served a day in the service. He is a professional stalker that has caused my family more grief than any human can imagine. To lie to the people here claiming to be in the military and serving this country as a cover story to be here for the purpose of screwing with me is despicable and as low down as any human can get.

The feds gave this piece of dog squeeze a good cover story, but when he lied to you about just being some random guy, he was also lying about his non-existent record as well. I don't normally give the coward any of my time like this, but if you guys were duped by WMD, Liquid Reigns, Sergeant7402, TrickyDicksHotRodShop, AttucksBlack, etc., etc. then you might be wrong as well about who is controlling the political machinery regarding immigration. I'm on air in three minutes, so I'll leave this at that and be back later.


----------



## The Tourist

Guys, to clarify the English word, this is a "forum." It is designed for an exchange of ideas. It is not a gladiator pit.

Let's pretend that I posted a remark, and Annie told me that such discourse violated forum rules. I would either apologize and delete the post, or re-write my angle using terms adhering to the rules.

And as I have found through years of research, I think wise-guys can neither use correct verbiage to debate or fight. They just hide behind their mom's computer and troll away.

Now, I have found the nicest people to be in my commercial side of the aisle, the cutlery industry. I would love to find a collector who openly disagrees with a slant I have taken and then open a debate. You would find no threatening, no harassment and no belittling. My guess is that after a few exchanges we would become friends.


----------



## Prepared One

StratMaster said:


> And an opportunity to learn something new if we don't beat our chests too much. I have a pretty decent vocabulary being a writer, but I learned a new word from you: bloviate! Had to look it up LOL, love it. I think a term like "bloviating blowhard, hoist by his own petard" might be musical to the ear as well as useful in the future. OK, that's enough bourbon for me...


Had to look up Bloviating myself. Good word. Now that I have learned a new word I think I will make me some Chili and have a few beers, clean a couple of rifles, and contemplate just how I can use my new word in meetings tomorrow. :vs_rocking_banana:


----------



## The Resister

The Tourist said:


> Guys, to clarify the English word, this is a "forum." It is designed for an exchange of ideas. It is not a gladiator pit.
> 
> Let's pretend that I posted a remark, and Annie told me that such discourse violated forum rules. I would either apologize and delete the post, or re-write my angle using terms adhering to the rules.
> 
> And as I have found through years of research, I think wise-guys can neither use correct verbiage to debate or fight. They just hide behind their mom's computer and troll away.
> 
> Now, I have found the nicest people to be in my commercial side of the aisle, the cutlery industry. I would love to find a collector who openly disagrees with a slant I have taken and then open a debate. You would find no threatening, no harassment and no belittling. My guess is that after a few exchanges we would become friends.


That is why I keep repeating that some of the things people say to me are things they absolutely would not, under any circumstances, say to my face. The accusations and name calling could, most likely, be avoided if the person would ask questions instead of making false assumptions and treating it like it were fact.

Sometimes I have to call people out on what *used to be* the constitutionalists side. It does not mean I do not understand the problem; I simply disagree with the tactics, rhetoric and strategies. It becomes even more relevant when we can look at voting results and see the percentages by which the right is winning. Now we're down to barely squeaking by less than one percent of the vote AND if the elections were decided by those 18 to 40 years of age, the left would win.

When I was a young boy, if you said some of the things that people say on these boards, it would be referred to as fighting words. In public, at least in Georgia, it still constitutes fighting words, and gives rise to a defense should someone knock your teeth out for initiating such a fight. When we had public meetings, we had open mic both before and after the meetings. People *NEVER* gave me flak or publicly disagreed, but once they got home and were in the privacy of their bedroom and able to post anonymously, they posted some of the same crap you see on these boards. They might even be some of the same people. But I tell them if it is personal, we have PM. All they have to do is tell a person to name the time and the place.

It's easier to gang up on people though and avoid a serious conversation. Ten paragraphs is a wall of text and some people would be better suited to Twitter. The fact that my stalker posing as a "_random guy with a military background_" played some of you is ample reason for you to consider the fact that the truth may be more than two sentences and agreeing with the masses. If an individual is talking smack about me on the board, but does not follow through in PM and tell me to name the time and place, they cannot be taken seriously by any rational and intelligent human being. The banter and political jockeying does not unify any of us. It does not lead to understanding.


----------



## The Tourist

Prepared One said:


> I can use my new word in meetings tomorrow.


Here, I can help you. I'm just about to listen to the Packer's game on the radio.

Tomorrow, when you're with the guys, just say, _"I watched Rodgers. And for a guy who bloviates as much as he does, he sure can't make a West Coast offense work..."_

Thank me later.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I told you last night I have to be on the air at 10 am and the reason I was still "online" is that I left the computer going, minimized the screen and let the anti-virus run so that when we go on the air, I'm not fighting the many viruses that Traxxas sends in order to shut me down.
> 
> Traxxas comes here with a few words he learns from his handlers, but just to show your posters how easy it is for them to be had, they can now be introduced, once again, to Sergeant7402 who trolled me before and was banned from this site. He then registers here as "some random guy" when, in fact, he is here solely for the purpose of discrediting me and stalking me. On the board previous to this one, he was "WMD"
> 
> https://www.mymilitia.com/forums/topic/54890-seeing-whatswhos-here/?tab=comments#comment-68002
> 
> He gives the same B.S. line and once I leave a board, he leaves. Insofar as his story about being some "random" guy with a service record in the Army, that is total and absolute B.S. The guy has never served a day in the service. He is a professional stalker that has caused my family more grief than any human can imagine. To lie to the people here claiming to be in the military and serving this country as a cover story to be here for the purpose of screwing with me is despicable and as low down as any human can get.
> 
> The feds gave this piece of dog squeeze a good cover story, but when he lied to you about just being some random guy, he was also lying about his non-existent record as well. I don't normally give the coward any of my time like this, but if you guys were duped by WMD, Liquid Reigns, Sergeant7402, TrickyDicksHotRodShop, AttucksBlack, etc., etc. then you might be wrong as well about who is controlling the political machinery regarding immigration. I'm on air in three minutes, so I'll leave this at that and be back later.


What I have been trying to tell you is your message might not be what gets people so angry with you. It just might be your way of delivering it.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> What I have been trying to tell you is your message might not be what gets people so angry with you. It just might be your way of delivering it.


I don't know how to master this Internet stuff. Complete nobodies can fool the best of you. I think my personal stalker being in our midst and having fooled so many people should be a testament to that. Once you follow someone like him all over the Internet and he appears under numerous board names, each time drawing me out and trying in vain to prove I'm somehow "_wrong_" about everything (including my own name), you have to admit the failings of thinking we can rely on a person's delivery of a message as indicative of their true character. *IF* I were as insignificant as my stalker would have people to believe, you have to ask yourself why he or she is so vested in following me *EVERYWHERE* I go - and it's not only the Internet; it's daily with "_scam likely_" calls; it's in my computer being hacked and viruses sent on a routine basis. It's been death threats, threats against my family; my home shot into; the family cat being hung across a tree limb in the back yard - and *ALWAYS* the same guy directly or indirectly involved.

Unfortunately, with that degree of harassment and intimidation, I lack the skills requisite to be patient with people who are too easily offended by my delivery. I do admit that I am a fool. I posted on the Internet and gave my stalker the ability to get everything he wanted out of me in order to make my life a living Hell. That is my best defense for being blunt with people - not including the fact that if you *REALLY* get offended by someone, you should be able to ignore them. All of you here do not know how much I would like to have that luxury. For me to ignore my stalker, it would mean more harassing phone calls - even calls to my employer. It would mean attacks being made against my home and threats against my family. So, judge my attitude accordingly.

For those of you who should have a handle on the way life really works, you should know that since my teens my priorities have been to my God, my family, and my country. I believe in the Constitution the way it was originally written and intended - many times that alone offends the left since the Constitution was much like a contract with a specific people. As such, the Constitution cannot be the document that promotes a one world, one race, one religion society that it has been misrepresented to be. That means that no matter how a person got here - whether you think they are "_legal_" or not, they can pose a threat to this country. The mixed multitude is changing our religious institutions; erasing our history (mostly by feigning to be offended by every aspect of our culture); they are threatening our culture and customs. Worse, they are leveraging our emotions against us so that the *proposed solutions* work against us, not for us in the long run. Part of the disconnect between myself and the posters is that I *agree* that a problem exists. I disagree with the proffered solutions - and have weighed their effects over the last decade and a half. You show me how to translate that into a civil discussion and we can work on it. Other than that, if your feeling got offended, I apologize. When it comes to mastering the Internet, I definitely am a fool. When you stand in front of live audiences and / or do radio or tv interviews and get a different reaction, it's hard to figure out why the same delivery doesn't work on the Net. Then, again, when I'm live ten paragraphs of text are about four minutes of verbal communication - and you can see my face and read my body language... so, where do you want to start here?


----------



## stevekozak

The Resister said:


> I don't know how to master this Internet stuff. Complete nobodies can fool the best of you. I think my personal stalker being in our midst and having fooled so many people should be a testament to that. Once you follow someone like him all over the Internet and he appears under numerous board names, each time drawing me out and trying in vain to prove I'm somehow "_wrong_" about everything (including my own name), you have to admit the failings of thinking we can rely on a person's delivery of a message as indicative of their true character. *IF* I were as insignificant as my stalker would have people to believe, you have to ask yourself why he or she is so vested in following me *EVERYWHERE* I go - and it's not only the Internet; it's daily with "_scam likely_" calls; it's in my computer being hacked and viruses sent on a routine basis. It's been death threats, threats against my family; my home shot into; the family cat being hung across a tree limb in the back yard - and *ALWAYS* the same guy directly or indirectly involved.
> 
> Unfortunately, with that degree of harassment and intimidation, I lack the skills requisite to be patient with people who are too easily offended by my delivery. I do admit that I am a fool. I posted on the Internet and gave my stalker the ability to get everything he wanted out of me in order to make my life a living Hell. That is my best defense for being blunt with people - not including the fact that if you *REALLY* get offended by someone, you should be able to ignore them. All of you here do not know how much I would like to have that luxury. For me to ignore my stalker, it would mean more harassing phone calls - even calls to my employer. It would mean attacks being made against my home and threats against my family. So, judge my attitude accordingly.
> 
> For those of you who should have a handle on the way life really works, you should know that since my teens my priorities have been to my God, my family, and my country. I believe in the Constitution the way it was originally written and intended - many times that alone offends the left since the Constitution was much like a contract with a specific people. As such, the Constitution cannot be the document that promotes a one world, one race, one religion society that it has been misrepresented to be. That means that no matter how a person got here - whether you think they are "_legal_" or not, they can pose a threat to this country. The mixed multitude is changing our religious institutions; erasing our history (mostly by feigning to be offended by every aspect of our culture); they are threatening our culture and customs. Worse, they are leveraging our emotions against us so that the *proposed solutions* work against us, not for us in the long run. Part of the disconnect between myself and the posters is that I *agree* that a problem exists. I disagree with the proffered solutions - and have weighed their effects over the last decade and a half. You show me how to translate that into a civil discussion and we can work on it. Other than that, if your feeling got offended, I apologize. When it comes to mastering the Internet, I definitely am a fool. When you stand in front of live audiences and / or do radio or tv interviews and get a different reaction, it's hard to figure out why the same delivery doesn't work on the Net. Then, again, when I'm live ten paragraphs of text are about four minutes of verbal communication - and you can see my face and read my body language... so, where do you want to start here?


You say a lot of true things, but you talk too much. That is my opinion. :vs_closedeyes:


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I don't know how to master this Internet stuff. Complete nobodies can fool the best of you. I think my personal stalker being in our midst and having fooled so many people should be a testament to that. Once you follow someone like him all over the Internet and he appears under numerous board names, each time drawing me out and trying in vain to prove I'm somehow "_wrong_" about everything (including my own name), you have to admit the failings of thinking we can rely on a person's delivery of a message as indicative of their true character. *IF* I were as insignificant as my stalker would have people to believe, you have to ask yourself why he or she is so vested in following me *EVERYWHERE* I go - and it's not only the Internet; it's daily with "_scam likely_" calls; it's in my computer being hacked and viruses sent on a routine basis. It's been death threats, threats against my family; my home shot into; the family cat being hung across a tree limb in the back yard - and *ALWAYS* the same guy directly or indirectly involved.
> 
> Unfortunately, with that degree of harassment and intimidation, I lack the skills requisite to be patient with people who are too easily offended by my delivery. I do admit that I am a fool. I posted on the Internet and gave my stalker the ability to get everything he wanted out of me in order to make my life a living Hell. That is my best defense for being blunt with people - not including the fact that if you *REALLY* get offended by someone, you should be able to ignore them. All of you here do not know how much I would like to have that luxury. For me to ignore my stalker, it would mean more harassing phone calls - even calls to my employer. It would mean attacks being made against my home and threats against my family. So, judge my attitude accordingly.
> 
> For those of you who should have a handle on the way life really works, you should know that since my teens my priorities have been to my God, my family, and my country. I believe in the Constitution the way it was originally written and intended - many times that alone offends the left since the Constitution was much like a contract with a specific people. As such, the Constitution cannot be the document that promotes a one world, one race, one religion society that it has been misrepresented to be. That means that no matter how a person got here - whether you think they are "_legal_" or not, they can pose a threat to this country. The mixed multitude is changing our religious institutions; erasing our history (mostly by feigning to be offended by every aspect of our culture); they are threatening our culture and customs. Worse, they are leveraging our emotions against us so that the *proposed solutions* work against us, not for us in the long run. Part of the disconnect between myself and the posters is that I *agree* that a problem exists. I disagree with the proffered solutions - and have weighed their effects over the last decade and a half. You show me how to translate that into a civil discussion and we can work on it. Other than that, if your feeling got offended, I apologize. When it comes to mastering the Internet, I definitely am a fool. When you stand in front of live audiences and / or do radio or tv interviews and get a different reaction, it's hard to figure out why the same delivery doesn't work on the Net. Then, again, when I'm live ten paragraphs of text are about four minutes of verbal communication - and you can see my face and read my body language... so, where do you want to start here?


Tell me, do you share your thoughts because you want people to consider your points, or do you simply like typing? This is an important question.

People don't like feeling they are being lectured. Long-winded posts come across that way. Shorter posts that lead to casual discussions are what people enjoy on forums. Information dumps followed by arguments and condescending responses are not what people want.

People do like amicable writers. They like friendly chats. Even if they don't understand or agree with every point, they are more willing to consider the other sideif they feel there is some sort of bond with the other person.

It really isn't hard, and your excuses for your tactics are really no excuse at all. They are simply reasons. There's a difference.

Now, understand this is not meant to attack you but to help you understand. If you have people following you around the internet making your life less than pleasant, it might be that your internet attitude drew the ire of some who have a lot more extra time and persistence than most. That is to say, you aren't the way you are because of trolls and stalkers, but they might be in your life because of the way you interact with others on the internet.

Again, I am just trying to help you. Again.


----------



## The Resister

stevekozak said:


> You say a lot of true things, but you talk too much. That is my opinion. :vs_closedeyes:


I realize that, but don't you think there is or should be a time and a place for real discussion?


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Tell me, do you share your thoughts because you want people to consider your points, or do you simply like typing? This is an important question.
> 
> People don't like feeling they are being lectured. Long-winded posts come across that way. Shorter posts that lead to casual discussions are what people enjoy on forums. Information dumps followed by arguments and condescending responses are not what people want.
> 
> People do like amicable writers. They like friendly chats. Even if they don't understand or agree with every point, they are more willing to consider the other sideif they feel there is some sort of bond with the other person.
> 
> It really isn't hard, and your excuses for your tactics are really no excuse at all. They are simply reasons. There's a difference.
> 
> Now, understand this is not meant to attack you but to help you understand. If you have people following you around the internet making your life less than pleasant, it might be that your internet attitude drew the ire of some who have a lot more extra time and persistence than most. That is to say, you aren't the way you are because of trolls and stalkers, but they might be in your life because of the way you interact with others on the internet.
> 
> Again, I am just trying to help you. Again.


When a troll can devote 24 hours a day, seven days a week to harassment and intimidation, it goes further than anything I may have typed. BTW, my typing speed is around 80wpm. A ten paragraph posting is under fifteen minutes of my time. I read news articles every day that are longer than my average post. I'm not attacking anyone, but we genuinely need a handful of people that *ARE* willing to read what you call long winded articles.

I really do my best to reduce things it took years and years of study, research and attending various meetings to articulate, but simply don't know how you make a political point in under ten paragraphs. Then, the disinformation artists attack that in their responses so that even a three paragraph posting becomes a dozen more paragraphs to undo their lies and attacks. I've even started to give links to more in depth stuff so that, when attacked, posters can go elsewhere to get my side of what's going on.

At the end of this road, America is under fire from all sides and a lot of people are participating in the destruction of their own country simply because they don't have the facts. Some days I'd like to say piss on it, but the good Lord keeps reminding me that faith without works is dead. I'm just dedicated enough to work a bit harder than the average guy on the street. So, I overdo it. I'll do what I can to condense it, but really guys... anything worth knowing is *really* worth knowing.


----------



## ekim

The Resister said:


> I realize that, but don't you think there is or should be a time and a place for real discussion?


Try your shrink, I'm sure he would love to hear your babble/wisdom. He could laugh all the way to the bank. Or maybe a religious leader.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

I have never had any formal mental health training or classes in psychiatry, but having spent 9 years as a "client" in the VA Mental Hygiene Department for PTSD, I have developed a 6th sense that tells me when someone should be on medication. 
Or, is on medication and is not taking it as prescribed.

Just saying.


----------



## ekim

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have never had any formal mental health training or classes in psychiatry, but having spent 9 years as a "client" in the VA Mental Hygiene Department for PTSD, I have developed a 6th sense that tells me when someone should be on medication.
> Or, is on medication and is not taking it as prescribed.
> 
> Just saying.


What do you suggest,can you write perscriptions? I don't what to buy off the street!:vs_bananasplit:


----------



## StratMaster

I can be one absurd, conceited, arrogant jackass when the mood (or a few bourbons) hits me (yes, you all agree, no need to chime in)... but I never had a big enough idea of myself to suspect someone would devote their time 24/7 following and challenging whatever tedious drivel/litany I was posting on the web. I'm just not that interesting (again, no need to chime in with agreement LOL).


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> When a troll can devote 24 hours a day, seven days a week to harassment and intimidation, it goes further than anything I may have typed. BTW, my typing speed is around 80wpm. A ten paragraph posting is under fifteen minutes of my time. I read news articles every day that are longer than my average post. I'm not attacking anyone, but we genuinely need a handful of people that *ARE* willing to read what you call long winded articles.
> 
> I really do my best to reduce things it took years and years of study, research and attending various meetings to articulate, but simply don't know how you make a political point in under ten paragraphs. Then, the disinformation artists attack that in their responses so that even a three paragraph posting becomes a dozen more paragraphs to undo their lies and attacks. I've even started to give links to more in depth stuff so that, when attacked, posters can go elsewhere to get my side of what's going on.
> 
> At the end of this road, America is under fire from all sides and a lot of people are participating in the destruction of their own country simply because they don't have the facts. Some days I'd like to say piss on it, but the good Lord keeps reminding me that faith without works is dead. I'm just dedicated enough to work a bit harder than the average guy on the street. So, I overdo it. I'll do what I can to condense it, but really guys... anything worth knowing is *really* worth knowing.


And again, you manage to self-aggrandize, rationalize and all the rest.

You still don't get it. It has nothing to do with your typing speed.

I really do give up, this time. Continue to be the way you are. Make most members of whatever forum you join put you on ignore and then blame them for it. Anger the rest with your online personality traits and then go to another forum and complain about unwanted internet companions.

The only thing you accepted was that you are long-winded. Did you not read the rest? I didn't make it into a novel and I wrote it so it is easier to read on a computer screen. 
Never mind. You don't have to answer. I almost allowed myself to get dragged into it, again. Do what you want.


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have never had any formal mental health training or classes in psychiatry, but having spent 9 years as a "client" in the VA Mental Hygiene Department for PTSD, I have developed a 6th sense that tells me when someone should be on medication.
> Or, is on medication and is not taking it as prescribed.
> 
> Just saying.


And you, sir, represent all that is wrong with America. Too many over-medicated people are telling those trying to help they need meds. Sir, I damn sure don't need meds. At least everyone here can see the value of my critics real criticisms. You take so many drugs that you cannot focus. Since you cannot focus, you don't understand when Uncle Scam is playing you. Now you should take your meds and allow people with both oars in the water have a real conversation.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> And again, you manage to self-aggrandize, rationalize and all the rest.
> 
> You still don't get it. It has nothing to do with your typing speed.
> 
> I really do give up, this time. Continue to be the way you are. Make most members of whatever forum you join put you on ignore and then blame them for it. Anger the rest with your online personality traits and then go to another forum and complain about unwanted internet companions.
> 
> The only thing you accepted was that you are long-winded. Did you not read the rest? I didn't make it into a novel and I wrote it so it is easier to read on a computer screen.
> Never mind. You don't have to answer. I almost allowed myself to get dragged into it, again. Do what you want.


Go along to get along. It will all be okay. That is what I get from you. Posts are too long and we should realize that some guy without an education, addicted to drugs, and cannot focus has more relevant opinions than the guy busting his ass to fix what is wrong in America.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> I can be one absurd, conceited, arrogant jackass when the mood (or a few bourbons) hits me (yes, you all agree, no need to chime in)... but I never had a big enough idea of myself to suspect someone would devote their time 24/7 following and challenging whatever tedious drivel/litany I was posting on the web. I'm just not that interesting (again, no need to chime in with agreement LOL).


I never had such a big idea of myself either, yet I have a stalker that is that dedicated. Not only does the guy follow me onto* EVERY *board I go on - he is now back to where he started, from which he was *BANNED* under the name Sarge7402. All you have to do is a little research. All you guys do is bitch about me. Yet you got played by a POS that never served a day in the service and you thanked him for something he *didn't* do and don't give me the opportunity to speak my piece.

It's great if you don't want to read what I write. Nobody is forcing you to read it. What is that makes you want to judge me? BTW, not only did you guys get played by a professional troll, his ego is so big that he got into a pissing match with a guy named watchman. The exchange went 650 + posts before I quit following it. So, all I see from these guys is go along to get along. And if there is anything more than that, Denton failed to articulate it. There is no commitment to preserve, protect and defend the First Amendment either?

I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'd fight to the death for your Right to say it.


----------



## The Resister

WhatTheHeck said:


> I hear a lot of leftists who claim illegals contribute to the local economies even though they do not pay taxes.
> 
> Then I read reports like this.
> 
> Recently read a report saying Social Security is in big trouble as in 2010 we fell to the 2.8 workers to 1 beneficiaries and it is projected to fall even further. Note: in order to be viable there has to be at a minimum 3 workers to every 1 beneficiary.
> 
> Meanwhile, you have these illegals not only not contributing, but also taking at the same time.
> 
> In short, we are running out of money.


I have read the reports that Socialist Security is virtually broke as well. Then, as fast as that comes out, conservative talk show host Herman Cain is on the radio claiming that there is no such thing as a Social Security fund. He states that the money is taken from the general budget and *no separate account for SS exists*. For me it is double talk.

The reality is, the cheap foreign labor* IS* necessary to keep America going *at this time*. Those people produce more work for a lower price. So, the employer not only saves on the labor costs, but gets an increase in productivity for his money. By contrast, we are a nation of drug users. For pointing that out, I have a few critics that follow me around advocating that I go see a mental health official for drugs. They brag about the booze they drink and they waste their time in pissing matches and personality contests.

The average American starts their journey with having been prescribed *Adderall* or* Ritalin* for the non-existent condition of ADD / ADHD as a child. By high school they advance to *opioids *(whether legal or illegal.) Some of them will end up on *SSRIs* and mild to hard core drugs from *marijuana* to *heroin*. Many will become alcoholics. By their teens they have twenty tattoos on their bodies and a lot of body piercings; they have acquired a drug habit and a criminal record; they don't have a driver's license nor a high school diploma.

The United States represents 4.4 percent of the world's population and *22 percent of the world's prison population*. Americans consume over *80 percent* of the world's opioid supply. For every drug addict that is in a mental health facility, you have more than *TEN drug addicts serving their time in prison*. We have more people in prison than any nation on the planet.

And so, we have those who will swear up and down that these so - called "_illegal_" aliens somehow manage to wait in long lines all day and break the welfare system *and* steal (sic) your jobs at the same time. They cannot stand the reality that the undocumented workers, by and large, get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the SS taxes. They pay *$12 BILLION DOLLARS per year* into Socialist Security and will never be able to take one thin dime out in retirement.

The reality is, drug cartels exist due to America's insatiable appetite for drugs. Furthermore, with the bulk of our citizenry being drug addicts, alcoholics, and people with a criminal history with no job skills, no coping skills, no education and an inability to focus they are *unqualified* to be in today's job market. Most of them spend their time in mommy's basement or maybe in government housing, pecking on their keyboards all day long, blaming so - called "_illegal aliens._" While they are suggesting that I join them in taking drugs and drowning myself in booze, I'm more likely to be searching the patches of woods in my neighborhood for the homeless. I'm trying to take those people to shelters, get them into rehab programs, and give them a reason to clean up their act and become productive.

As Americans, the parents turned the rearing of their children over to the doctors and the government. Those people used Big Pharma instead of dealing with dysfunctional homes. Now we have an entire generation of misfits that cannot function. They cannot even be honest. In the figures cited in the OP, they use the figures of people who entered via proper channels and they are sucking off the system "_legally_."

Even if we could force the so - called "_illegal aliens_" out and build a wall around America, it could only minimize the numbers of people here. What it *cannot do* is to rehabilitate those who are on drugs and alcohol. It cannot educate those people or do something that would lead to the expungement of their criminal records. It won't get rid of the tattoos and body piercings that make people look like circus freaks. It won't help them to be able to read ten paragraphs and have a civil conversation. It won't help them with problem solving skills.

As long as the government is paying people NOT to work - and I have family members (just as *ALL *of you do and some of you doing it yourselves) that accept a government check in lieu of working a job, the real issue continues. It's easier to take that $1200 to $1500 a month (depending upon where you live) and blame those who are merely filling the void you leave behind than it is to clean up your act and become a *productive* citizen. If we get our own cleaned up, rehabilitated, educated, and able to hold a conversation and read a newspaper, the immigration issue would solve itself. So, when people are urging me to join them in the drug and booze culture, you pretty much see what the *REAL* problem is. I started a ministry to address this need to get the downtrodden back on their feet. At this point, we could use a little help and a lot less attitude from snowflakes and welfare recipients Hell bent on blaming everyone but themselves for their own shortcomings.


----------



## The Resister

Sasquatch said:


> They also take that stuff and sell it at swap meets or garage sales. At least they do in CA. Glad my tax dollars supply their inventory.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


What, other than laziness, keeps unemployed Americans from doing the same thing?


----------



## rice paddy daddy

The Resister said:


> And you, sir, represent all that is wrong with America. Too many over-medicated people are telling those trying to help they need meds. Sir, I damn sure don't need meds. At least everyone here can see the value of my critics real criticisms. You take so many drugs that you cannot focus. Since you cannot focus, you don't understand when Uncle Scam is playing you. Now you should take your meds and allow people with both oars in the water have a real conversation.


You are wrong there, pal.
I do not smoke, drink alcohol, or use dope.
The only drugs I take is one pill for my blood pressure, plus over the counter pain meds for my arthritis and nerve pain. Tylenol, Motrin, Aleve and aspirin.

Nope, my head is a hell of a lot clearer than yours. :tango_face_smile:

Have a nice day.:vs_cool:


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> You are wrong there, pal.
> I do not smoke, drink alcohol, or use dope.
> The only drugs I take is one pill for my blood pressure, plus over the counter pain meds for my arthritis and nerve pain. Tylenol, Motrin, Aleve and aspirin.
> 
> Nope, my head is a hell of a lot clearer than yours. :tango_face_smile:
> 
> Have a nice day.:vs_cool:


You are making a false claim. * IF* you ever served in a foxhole, you know damn well how important it is to put differences aside and work together. You can't do it. When you fight for this country, you fight for everyone, not just those you agree with. Somehow that got all screwed up for you - and those who think it's funny to suggest someone go on drugs or booze.

It's more entertaining though than to think your way through a serious problem, isn't it?


----------



## rice paddy daddy

I did not fight for you, my country, mom’s apple pie, or any of that other stuff.
I fought for my buddies. 

If YOU had ever served in combat, you would understand this.

Now, let’s see how you can garble and twist that. It ought to be interesting.


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> I did not fight for you, my country, mom's apple pie, or any of that other stuff.
> I fought for my buddies.
> 
> If YOU had ever served in combat, you would understand this.
> 
> Now, let's see how you can garble and twist that. It ought to be interesting.


In the field you fight for your buddies, but when I counsel vets that lost limbs and / or had traumatic head injuries, they say over and over again that it was an honor to fight for America and that they would do it again. It is to people like that we owe a great debt of gratitude that thank you don't even begin to cover.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Go along to get along. It will all be okay. That is what I get from you. Posts are too long and we should realize that some guy without an education, addicted to drugs, and cannot focus has more relevant opinions than the guy busting his ass to fix what is wrong in America.


That's why I said I'm wasting my time. You'd rather duck and weave. All you got out of what I said was to shorten the posts, and from that one point all you want to do is rationalize why that makes everyone else stupid.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

And just where do you “counsel vets” and in what capacity?


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> That's why I said I'm wasting my time. You'd rather duck and weave. All you got out of what I said was to shorten the posts, and from that one point all you want to do is rationalize why that makes everyone else stupid.


From here on out Denton, you will not hear me apologize, explain, or rationalize a damn thing.

I've put my life on the line more than once in defense of Liberty and Freedom. I do not need your accolades nor your approval. You want to defend people who get taken by government snitches that aren't even remotely good at what they do... and you can't admit to it.

If you want to peck your keyboards and save America from the comfort of your computer, good luck. The better way to save America is to be *active*. In order to do that you have to *understand* the issues; you have to be *involved *in your community; you have to *educate* those that do not have the requisite information; you work to heal the sick, feed the hungry, clothe the naked. When the enemies of America use psychological guerrilla warfare, you go out and meet the challenge. You don't fall for it and get pissed off when someone shows you how you got played.

The fact is, the Republicans have been winning elections by fewer and fewer percentages. It would be embarrassing for me if I were in charge and were getting beat by Democrats. Generally speaking, if you took the Democrat leadership in this country and turned their brains into dynamite, there wouldn't be enough charge to blow one's nose. To lose elections to political propaganda prostitutes with that low of an IQ should signal that you need to rethink your strategies. I can't teach you either, Denton. I'm not ducking and weaving a damn thing.

When I walk away from this computer, it will still be on. I have to take two people to a place to get counseling for their drug habit. Then it's off to visit someone who is elderly and their family is too busy to check in on them. After dinner time will be spent on the phone talking to people who have any number of personal / family problems. Some time will have to be spent this week contacting legislators and trying to convince them to vote one way or another on a number of bills. Our church not only teaches people that repentance is required if they want to secure their future, but we also teach prepper skills and show people how to become self reliant. All I've seen from those here who obsess over immigration is egotistical hate mongers that drove even Ammon Bundy into leaving the "_movement_," so yours truly saw it a decade and a half earlier than he did.

You're not interested in helping America prepare; you want a good old boy network where guys have to go along to get along, lest you be ridiculed for stating the obvious: most of the really stupid people who obsess over immigration all the time would starve to death in a grocery store and it's a damn miracle that they don't choke on their own spit while waiting on someone else to swab out their throat. Having been beaten, tortured, shot at, shot, ridiculed, ostracized, castigated, chastised, stalked, lied to, lied about and marginalized there isn't a thing in this world a few keyboard commandos can do me that wasn't done in real life. But after decades of fighting this fight, there is one thing you can rest assured of:

Those who want a constant pissing match instead of a civil conversation are pretty well screwed if / when the SHTF. If you cannot be civil to one another on a discussion board, you're sure as HELL going to fail in the real world. And if you want to try and defend yourself with a majority vote against me on this board, you should look at the nationwide voting in the last elections. You're losing. The real difference between us is that my life is spent doing more than talking about it.


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> And just where do you "counsel vets" and in what capacity?


I speak to vets in a variety of non-profit organizations both as a volunteer AND as a minister who studied theology AND has an advanced certificate in Christian Education. All this B.S. aside champ, it's like I keep repeating: My door has been opened for the whole decade and a half of my Internet presence so that poseurs and critics could spend a couple of days with me in real time. To date - *NO TAKERS*. It's too easy to criticize me from the comfort of your computer than it is to see how it is to spend a day in the life of someone who *WORKS* at what they write about.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> From here on out Denton, you will not hear me apologize, explain, or rationalize a damn thing.
> 
> I've put my life on the line more than once in defense of Liberty and Freedom. I do not need your accolades nor your approval. You want to defend people who get taken by government snitches that aren't even remotely good at what they do... and you can't admit to it.
> 
> If you want to peck your keyboards and save America from the comfort of your computer, good luck. The better way to save America is to be *active*. In order to do that you have to *understand* the issues; you have to be *involved *in your community; you have to *educate* those that do not have the requisite information; you work to heal the sick, feed the hungry, clothe the naked. When the enemies of America use psychological guerrilla warfare, you go out and meet the challenge. You don't fall for it and get pissed off when someone shows you how you got played.
> 
> The fact is, the Republicans have been winning elections by fewer and fewer percentages. It would be embarrassing for me if I were in charge and were getting beat by Democrats. Generally speaking, if you took the Democrat leadership in this country and turned their brains into dynamite, there wouldn't be enough charge to blow one's nose. To lose elections to political propaganda prostitutes with that low of an IQ should signal that you need to rethink your strategies. I can't teach you either, Denton. I'm not ducking and weaving a damn thing.
> 
> When I walk away from this computer, it will still be on. I have to take two people to a place to get counseling for their drug habit. Then it's off to visit someone who is elderly and their family is too busy to check in on them. After dinner time will be spent on the phone talking to people who have any number of personal / family problems. Some time will have to be spent this week contacting legislators and trying to convince them to vote one way or another on a number of bills. Our church not only teaches people that repentance is required if they want to secure their future, but we also teach prepper skills and show people how to become self reliant. All I've seen from those here who obsess over immigration is egotistical hate mongers that drove even Ammon Bundy into leaving the "_movement_," so yours truly saw it a decade and a half earlier than he did.
> 
> You're not interested in helping America prepare; you want a good old boy network where guys have to go along to get along, lest you be ridiculed for stating the obvious: most of the really stupid people who obsess over immigration all the time would starve to death in a grocery store and it's a damn miracle that they don't choke on their own spit while waiting on someone else to swab out their throat. Having been beaten, tortured, shot at, shot, ridiculed, ostracized, castigated, chastised, stalked, lied to, lied about and marginalized there isn't a thing in this world a few keyboard commandos can do me that wasn't done in real life. But after decades of fighting this fight, there is one thing you can rest assured of:
> 
> Those who want a constant pissing match instead of a civil conversation are pretty well screwed if / when the SHTF. If you cannot be civil to one another on a discussion board, you're sure as HELL going to fail in the real world. And if you want to try and defend yourself with a majority vote against me on this board, you should look at the nationwide voting in the last elections. You're losing. The real difference between us is that my life is spent doing more than talking about it.


There you go again. You can't help it.

It's all about you. You see yourself as some great warrior and everyone else barely make it to cook status. Those who question you are simply too stupid to get it. That's where you are wrong. And, you are the one who is stupid. Terribly-so.

You say I don't want to help people prepare. See? You think you are just that smart, but that indicates stupidity. You don't know what I do, and from you, all I see is someone who wants to elevate himself on every occassion.

A Good Ol' Boy network? That's what you got out of it? What I was doing was attempting to help you be a better communicator on the internet. Instead of contemplating what I said, you simply looked for ways to argue, even if your arguments made no sense. The Resister. You appropriately named yourself, just not as you intended.

By the way; you've never apologized for anything but that things you created. Not that I've looked for apologies. All I've wanted is for you to be a better comunicator.

Now, continue to alienate your audience. You're doing a lousy job at imparting information but doing a fine job at stroking your own ego.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> There you go again. You can't help it.
> 
> It's all about you. You see yourself as some great warrior and everyone else barely make it to cook status. Those who question you are simply too stupid to get it. That's where you are wrong. And, you are the one who is stupid. Terribly-so.
> 
> You say I don't want to help people prepare. See? You think you are just that smart, but that indicates stupidity. You don't know what I do, and from you, all I see is someone who wants to elevate himself on every occassion.
> 
> A Good Ol' Boy network? That's what you got out of it? What I was doing was attempting to help you be a better communicator on the internet. Instead of contemplating what I said, you simply looked for ways to argue, even if your arguments made no sense. The Resister. You appropriately named yourself, just not as you intended.
> 
> By the way; you've never apologized for anything but that things you created. Not that I've looked for apologies. All I've wanted is for you to be a better comunicator.
> 
> Now, continue to alienate your audience. You're doing a lousy job at imparting information but doing a fine job at stroking your own ego.


You sound like a man with feelings of inadequacy. Since you guys that hate and loathe the little brown people and cannot see your role in the demise of your own culture, you fall back on projecting your failures on others.

I'm no hero and am unimportant at the end of the day. The thing that separates me for you Denton. I don't talk about it; I do it. A man told me just yesterday that it wasn't bragging if you do it. Well, I do it and expect *NOTHING* from you. Initially, it was my intent to post on a few boards, find some people of like mind - and find those who wanted the help we offer. That was a colossal failure. But, the thing is, IF I had a ego, I wouldn't have taken the B.S. I've taken from poseurs in this business. So save your ego trip. You can't project it onto me.

I'm doing a good job at communicating. You are just trying to misrepresent it to your advantage. That's why you have the same dozen or so regulars even when your board has hundreds of posters. You have no idea how many people lurk, never post and are active - actually doing things that make a difference. You haven't told me a damn thing that would get us beyond the past here - and nothing will. Your little clique group feels that they have the answers to everything, yet the only solution they came up with is I needed to do drugs. What a freaking joke!

If you are of the opinion that I'm trying to alienate you, then you're finally getting smart. Sharing opinions didn't work. I was never entitled to my opinion here. I'm only entitled to yours and you did a piss poor job of telling me one single thing that would have resulted in my being here turning out any other way than the way it has. But, when America fails, you can thank your good old boy network. If you don't chant the right mantra; if you introduce anything than the status quo, you will be schooled here. The problem is, YOU DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS.

If there are people who are mad here, last week won't be the last time you hear of REAL activists like Ammon Bundy catching on. You are losing support at a national level. I hear you, but you think that every little thing I say about me is an ego trip. Yet I'm not the one making me the subject of *EVERY* immigration thread, am I? Am I? And you should answer the question honestly for a change. I don't make it about me. You think I should either *NOT* say anything or be a good little victim and allow people to use me as an Internet punching bag because they don't have the brains or the guts to address the issue any other way. Well surprise, I'm not only void of an ego, but I'm not your push button monkey either. You're mad at me because you cannot man up to your own inadequacies, support the Right of people to offer alternative opinions, and then go after those who initiate the fight. You're mad because the guys who have a problem cannot take me on physically or academically. You cannot project your Texas sized ego onto me, Denton.

I'm one man Denton. I'm not a freaking army, yet look at how many paragraphs of FEAR I've generated among those who think if I say something they don't like, the world will end because those words were on prepperforums.net. Let me clue you in on something: most threads that piss me off, I simply ignore it. But since those who obsess over immigration cannot ignore a little criticism, they should check their egos and not let every post I make ruin their week. For real, I'm one man - and those who have a problem with what I say are welcomed and encouraged to ignore me. But they can't. There is always that one guy in touch with me that threatens the supremacy of the clique group that is smarter than all the rest of America.


----------



## Denton

I'm sorry; talking to me? I can't hear you over your ego and inability to communicate on the internet. 

You're right; we are all deeply flawed and you are the Great Orator. Carry on talking to yourself.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

The Resister said:


> I speak to vets in a variety of non-profit organizations both as a volunteer AND as a minister who studied theology AND has an advanced certificate in Christian Education. All this B.S. aside champ, it's like I keep repeating: My door has been opened for the whole decade and a half of my Internet presence so that poseurs and critics could spend a couple of days with me in real time. To date - *NO TAKERS*. It's too easy to criticize me from the comfort of your computer than it is to see how it is to spend a day in the life of someone who *WORKS* at what they write about.


So, in other words you have no actual experience in the subject. Only so called book knowledge.
Totally inadequate when dealing with PTSD/TBI.
It compares to a non-alcoholic trying to help an alcoholic.


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> So, in other words you have no actual experience in the subject. Only so called book knowledge.
> Totally inadequate when dealing with PTSD/TBI.
> It compares to a non-alcoholic trying to help an alcoholic.


Where, exactly, did you read that into my response? Do you even have an idea of what you asked? You think that I'm so damn miraculous that I've been beaten, tortured, shot at, shot and don't have experience? Let me ask you a real question here: Are you for real at all? Is that it OR are you stupid? You make a lot of assumptions, but you are getting too personal for an Internet discussion. I don't justify myself to you or any other swinging Richard on the face of this earth.


----------



## MisterMills357

rice paddy daddy said:


> So, in other words you have no actual experience in the subject. Only so called book knowledge.
> Totally inadequate when dealing with PTSD/TBI.
> It compares to a non-alcoholic trying to help an alcoholic.





The Resister said:


> Where, exactly, did you read that into my response? Do you even have an idea of what you asked? You think that I'm so damn miraculous that I've been beaten, tortured, shot at, shot and don't have experience? Let me ask you a real question here: Are you for real at all? Is that it OR are you stupid? You make a lot of assumptions, but you are getting too personal for an Internet discussion. I don't justify myself to you or any other swinging Richard on the face of this earth.


I'm calling a time out here! Behave! You are worse than I am!


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Denton said:


> I'm sorry; talking to me? I can't hear you over your ego and inability to communicate on the internet.
> 
> You're right; we are all deeply flawed and you are the Great Orator. Carry on talking to yourself.


Denton, I am reminded of an old saying: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."


----------



## The Resister

MisterMills357 said:


> I'm calling a time out here! Behave! You are worse than I am!


I certainly put in the effort today. This subject (if I read the OP correctly) is about the so - called "_illegals_" on welfare. In fact, half of the American people get their checks from the government because so many of them don't want to work.

Put your focus on them and your immigration problem will begin to resolve itself.


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> Denton, I am reminded of an old saying: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."


And, sir, you have mastered that if you accomplished nothing else with your miserable life.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> I'm sorry; talking to me? I can't hear you over your ego and inability to communicate on the internet.
> 
> You're right; we are all deeply flawed and you are the Great Orator. Carry on talking to yourself.


And you are the one crying that nobody listens to you.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

So, it is the middle of a work day, and you have time to write these screeds.
I’m retired, but why aren’t you at work?

There’s a lot of people with problems who need your expert counseling, yet here you are arguing with us.
I actually find that kind of comical


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> So, it is the middle of a work day, and you have time to write these screeds.
> I'm retired, but why aren't you at work?
> 
> There's a lot of people with problems who need your expert counseling, yet here you are arguing with us.
> I actually find that kind of comical


I work from home and I am working. Most people begin contacting me after 4 or so, though I'm available all day. I did take two guys in for their rehab counseling and will pick them up at 4. Hooked up a homeless vet with some resources. Tomorrow might very well be a 12 hour 
day. You still have life left in you. We need your help, not a lot more B.S.:

https://www.veohero.org/
\
Donate some of your time and help out.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

I serve veterans and my community thru my duties as an officer in my local VFW, American Legion, AmVets, and Vietnam Veterans of America.
Further more, as a recovering alcoholic, I help others, especially veterans, who are struggling with this disease.

I’d wager I do more for my community in a week than you do for yours in 6 months.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> And so, we have those who will swear up and down that these so - called "illegal" aliens somehow manage to wait in long lines all day and break the welfare system and steal (sic) your jobs at the same time. They cannot stand the reality that the undocumented workers, by and large, get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the SS taxes. They pay $12 BILLION DOLLARS per year into Socialist Security and will never be able to take one thin dime out in retirement.


Illegals do not pay $12B a year into SS.

_Experts say illegal immigrants make up a majority-possibly up to 75 percent-of SSA's "earnings suspense file," which is a record it keeps on W-2s where the names and Social Security numbers don't match up in their system.

In 2010, the last year for which figures are available, employers reported wages of $70.3 billion from 7.3 million workers whose records were placed in the earnings suspense file, according to data provided by the SSA to The Medicare NewsGroup._

Half of that money, $6 BIllion, is the employers contribution. Another 25% + is from others (Women who failed to change their last names when either married or divorced, Visa holders with expired work eligibility, etc), so now we are down to maybe $3.3B they contribute to the Earnings Suspense File, not SS.

And, yes, some can obtain SS though illegally working here via Totalization Agreements, also by being granted work authorization, as in the case of PRUCOL aliens (DACA and those awaiting their asylum applications). https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/totalization-agreements

The issue you have is you present false information as if it were truth, and if your solutions are based on your mis-represented "facts", maybe you should re-think your solutions because so far you haven't gotten any "facts" regarding illegal immigrants correct.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> I never had such a big idea of myself either, yet I have a stalker that is that dedicated. Not only does the guy follow me onto* EVERY *board I go on - he is now back to where he started, from which he was *BANNED* under the name Sarge7402. All you have to do is a little research. All you guys do is bitch about me. Yet you got played by a POS that never served a day in the service and you thanked him for something he *didn't* do and don't give me the opportunity to speak my piece.
> 
> It's great if you don't want to read what I write. Nobody is forcing you to read it. What is that makes you want to judge me? BTW, not only did you guys get played by a professional troll, his ego is so big that he got into a pissing match with a guy named watchman. The exchange went 650 + posts before I quit following it. So, all I see from these guys is go along to get along. And if there is anything more than that, Denton failed to articulate it. There is no commitment to preserve, protect and defend the First Amendment either?
> 
> I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'd fight to the death for your Right to say it.


See...these are more adamant assertions without substantiation.

That's 1) that we are to believe something absurdly unlikely is true because you make the claim. Making the claim relentlessly, or while beating your chest, does not substantiate your claim. Funny thing though: if it DID turn out to be true, no one here would wonder how you managed to garner such loving and lasting attention.

Then there's 2) "all you guys do is bitch about me". This is not an argument either, and should be among the logical fallacies: maybe call it the "argument from crybabies".

Then there's 3) "There is no commitment to preserve, protect and defend the First Amendment either?" More crybabyism (yes, I made that word up... seems useful here). Nobody is erasing your litanies or suppressing your lengthy diatribes. YOU (wait, I forgot to go bold on this one for ominous EFFECT) *YOU * must learn to expect dissention (also part of free speech) if you are going to post on a forum like this.

And finally 4) Yes indeed, you have made it very clear you will "fight to the death" or dare someone to "say that to my face" or paint for us various other vistas of you in violent and righteous action... who cares? I wish we lived in the same town, as I would drag my oxygen tank behind me so's to get to you and prove you wrong. What I say here I would say to you in person.

As to needing meds, I always suspected it to be the case with you but never said so. Well, that cat-scan is apparently out of the bag now. I recommend you see your doctor and describe the following symptoms: bloviating, blowhard, mouth foaming, spittle flying, excessive usage of CAPITAL LETTERS and *BOLD FONTS *and EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!! Toss in the complete and utter inability to understand that you are alienating everyone whom you have exchanges with, or why. Tell the good doc it has been explained to you ad nauseam, but it is actually a conspiracy to undermine your heroic efforts to save us all from ourselves. Oh, and mention BLOWHARD a second or third time, now that I think of it. Once you get down to the people killing your cats, peeking over your fence, reading your meter (SURE you're a meter reader, you can't fool ME) and planting mics in your home, they should have it pretty well dialed in.

Were I to sum you up in one word, it would be this one: TEDIOUS.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> And you are the one crying that nobody listens to you.


You can't get anything right, can you? Not crying, and nobody; just you. You're too smart to listen to someone who is trying to help you. You're too arrogant and argumentative to listen to someone who was just trying to help you. Bless your heart.


----------



## Sasquatch

The Resister said:


> What, other than laziness, keeps unemployed Americans from doing the same thing?


Maybe because it's illegal.


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> Illegals do not pay $12B a year into SS.
> 
> _Experts say illegal immigrants make up a majority-possibly up to 75 percent-of SSA's "earnings suspense file," which is a record it keeps on W-2s where the names and Social Security numbers don't match up in their system.
> 
> In 2010, the last year for which figures are available, employers reported wages of $70.3 billion from 7.3 million workers whose records were placed in the earnings suspense file, according to data provided by the SSA to The Medicare NewsGroup._
> 
> Half of that money, $6 BIllion, is the employers contribution. Another 25% + is from others (Women who failed to change their last names when either married or divorced, Visa holders with expired work eligibility, etc), so now we are down to maybe $3.3B they contribute to the Earnings Suspense File, not SS.
> 
> And, yes, some can obtain SS though illegally working here via Totalization Agreements, also by being granted work authorization, as in the case of PRUCOL aliens (DACA and those awaiting their asylum applications). https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/totalization-agreements
> 
> The issue you have is you present false information as if it were truth, and if your solutions are based on your mis-represented "facts", maybe you should re-think your solutions because so far you haven't gotten any "facts" regarding illegal immigrants correct.


I'm winding down my input on this idiotic nonsense, but stalker I'm offering $2000 to anyone who can introduce us. Let's put this crackpot's argument to rest once and for all:

According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA (the most definitive and irrefutable source on the subject) undocumented immigrants - those without lumping legal visa holders into the mix pay* $12 BILLION DOLLARS per year* into Socialist Security. Now, let us presume that the figure of $6 million dollars from the employer is correct. The employer still gets the money from somewhere. It's derived from the profits generated by what the employees produce. In the final analysis, the undocumented immigrants are still paying into the system any way you slice it.

Of course, all of that is* irrelevant* to the point I was making on this thread. Nobody's paying me to argue with an idiot, so while you might be all kosher and the good guy - my hat's off to you for playing these people that don't realize you've been banned from this site once under the name of Sarge7402. Maybe later they will figure out it out when they aren't into partisan politics.

If the American people who are riding the welfare system are dealt with and forced back into the labor market, the immigration debacle is over. That is my point and I don't give two hoots in Hell what a professional stalker and pathological liar says. I just wish someone wanted a very Merry Christmas and would introduce us once and for all. Two grand could certainly brighten someone's Christmas.


----------



## The Resister

Sasquatch said:


> Maybe because it's illegal.


Yeah, like the *MILLIONS* with a criminal record who don't have a job abide by the laws.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> You can't get anything right, can you? Not crying, and nobody; just you. You're too smart to listen to someone who is trying to help you. You're too arrogant and argumentative to listen to someone who was just trying to help you. Bless your heart.


Quit being hypocritical and two faced. You claim to want to teach me something? *I hear every damn thing that is being said*. I can argue it better than you. But, there is no way to earn your respect when you don't respect yourself. You allow disgraced people like Sarge7402 with his *nonexistent *military record B.S. his way into this conversation and the people are slapping him on the back with that attaboy crap.

When you say something to that isn't a projection on your part, I will gladly put it to use. But, the point is, I can't say anything to the people here; they will only listen to me if I chant the correct mantra. I can sugar coat it and everything else. Bottom line pal: I had two decades plus experience before they even began considering this topic. Do you want me to repeat every argument they've made? Hell Club Fed, Liquid Reigns, TrickyDicksHotRodShop, Black Attucks, WMD, Tree Doc, Traxxas, sarge7402 - and whatever else he wants to call himself has been preaching your line to me for five years. I've had my home shot into thanks to that POS. My family has been threatened. The family cat was killed. I've listened to the B.S. line you guys have been exposed to more than all of you on this board. I got the freaking message. Your ball-less buddies have done everything except publicly debate me. Rest assured, they would LOSE.

If I say anything different, I'm arrogant? How freaking stupid can you be? I'm not arrogant; I'm fed up. You keep preaching about what you've done. Let's see if you can tell us the great big secret in five sentences. Quit playing Democrat just because you have a mob. A wise person once told me a person is known by the company they keep. Can you now disavow the stalker?


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> See...these are more adamant assertions without substantiation.
> 
> That's 1) that we are to believe something absurdly unlikely is true because you make the claim. Making the claim relentlessly, or while beating your chest, does not substantiate your claim. Funny thing though: if it DID turn out to be true, no one here would wonder how you managed to garner such loving and lasting attention.
> 
> Then there's 2) "all you guys do is bitch about me". This is not an argument either, and should be among the logical fallacies: maybe call it the "argument from crybabies".
> 
> Then there's 3) "There is no commitment to preserve, protect and defend the First Amendment either?" More crybabyism (yes, I made that word up... seems useful here). Nobody is erasing your litanies or suppressing your lengthy diatribes. YOU (wait, I forgot to go bold on this one for ominous EFFECT) *YOU * must learn to expect dissention (also part of free speech) if you are going to post on a forum like this.
> 
> And finally 4) Yes indeed, you have made it very clear you will "fight to the death" or dare someone to "say that to my face" or paint for us various other vistas of you in violent and righteous action... who cares? I wish we lived in the same town, as I would drag my oxygen tank behind me so's to get to you and prove you wrong. What I say here I would say to you in person.
> 
> As to needing meds, I always suspected it to be the case with you but never said so. Well, that cat-scan is apparently out of the bag now. I recommend you see your doctor and describe the following symptoms: bloviating, blowhard, mouth foaming, spittle flying, excessive usage of CAPITAL LETTERS and *BOLD FONTS *and EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!! Toss in the complete and utter inability to understand that you are alienating everyone whom you have exchanges with, or why. Tell the good doc it has been explained to you ad nauseam, but it is actually a conspiracy to undermine your heroic efforts to save us all from ourselves. Oh, and mention BLOWHARD a second or third time, now that I think of it. Once you get down to the people killing your cats, peeking over your fence, reading your meter (SURE you're a meter reader, you can't fool ME) and planting mics in your home, they should have it pretty well dialed in.
> 
> Were I to sum you up in one word, it would be this one: TEDIOUS.


You are full of yourself. When I do take the time to document my "_assertions_" (which are irrefutable facts) the guys with an IQ lower than their shoe size are bitching that it is too long to read.

I'm not the one who is making this discussion about me. Feel free at any moment to ignore me and discuss the OP.

You are exactly what is wrong with America. You demand an answer then bitch because the answer and the proof are too long. Talk your smack - just do so anonymously like the stalker does. But, the bottom line is, the strategies and rhetoric - not to mention the faulty and illogical theories you subscribe to are costing you at the ballot box and in the courts.

Now, I've told you where I stand. Unlike my critics, I'm not hiding and you can find me in public most of the time. It's not bragging when you can back it up. Where are you when the fights start? You're hiding, advocating that someone take drugs for disagreeing with you and you appear to be one of those dabbling in mental midgetry. Anyone that disagrees with your B.S. needs to be in a mental ward. Are you a retard?


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> According to the Chief Actuary of the SSA (the most definitive and irrefutable source on the subject) undocumented immigrants - those without lumping legal visa holders into the mix pay* $12 BILLION DOLLARS per year* into Socialist Security. Now, let us presume that the figure of $6 million dollars from the employer is correct. The employer still gets the money from somewhere. It's derived from the profits generated by what the employees produce. In the final analysis, the undocumented immigrants are still paying into the system any way you slice it.
> 
> If the American people who are riding the welfare system are dealt with and forced back into the labor market, the immigration debacle is over. That is my point


The Chief Actuary uses the term unauthorizedl workers, not illegal immigrants. Unauthorized/Illegal workers comprise of those using false/fake/forged SS numbers, those who's names do not match their number (such as women getting married or divorced), etc.

So now go to that actual SS document from the Chief Actuary and use his actual words.... Unauthorized Workers, not illegal immigrants...for the total.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf



> HOW THE PARTICIPATION OF UNAUTHORIZED WORKERS AFFECTS SOCIAL SECURITY'S FINANCIAL POSITION
> 
> For the annual Trustees Reports, the President's Budget,
> and other documents, OCACT projects the numbers of
> unauthorized immigrants residing in the United States,
> their earnings, and the implications of these earnings on
> Social Security financing. Our projections assume that
> unauthorized residents work at about the same rate as
> the rest of the population by age and sex, but earnings
> are less likely to be reported as taxable and even less
> likely to be credited for future benefit entitlement. Thus,
> our projections suggest that the presence of unauthorized
> workers in the United States has, on average, a positive
> effect on the financial status of the Social Security
> program. *For the year 2010,1 we estimate that the excess
> of tax revenue paid to the Trust Funds over benefits paid
> from these funds based on earnings of unauthorized
> workers is about $12 billion.*


Nobody denied illegal immigrants pay into the SS Electronic Suspense File, so your "point" is moot, the discussion is over the amount you claim they pay into it and the fact that some can in fact obtain SS when they retire via Totalization Agreements or by being allowed PRUCOL status.

I agree, those using welfare should be put back to work, however that will not keep economic refugees from attempting to come here as you say the "debacle" would be over. Do you have a plan to put those economic refugees back to work in their home countries? Since you have no pull in their country what you claim will end, simply won't.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> When I do take the time to document my "_assertions_" (which are irrefutable facts)


Yet your "assertions" are easily refuted and you are shown to be incorrect. You have yet to present, let alone use irrefutable facts.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> You are full of yourself. When I do take the time to document my "_assertions_" (which are irrefutable facts) the guys with an IQ lower than their shoe size are bitching that it is too long to read.
> 
> I'm not the one who is making this discussion about me. Feel free at any moment to ignore me and discuss the OP.
> 
> You are exactly what is wrong with America. You demand an answer then bitch because the answer and the proof are too long. Talk your smack - just do so anonymously like the stalker does. But, the bottom line is, the strategies and rhetoric - not to mention the faulty and illogical theories you subscribe to are costing you at the ballot box and in the courts.
> 
> Now, I've told you where I stand. Unlike my critics, I'm not hiding and you can find me in public most of the time. It's not bragging when you can back it up. Where are you when the fights start? You're hiding, advocating that someone take drugs for disagreeing with you and you appear to be one of those dabbling in mental midgetry. Anyone that disagrees with your B.S. needs to be in a mental ward. Are you a retard?


And you couldn't wait, indeed, could not stop yourself from rushing forward and verifying everything I said... while beating your chest yet some more. Wipe your foaming chin before someone takes you for a rabid dog.


----------



## RedLion

Traxxas said:


> Yet your "assertions" are easily refuted and you are shown to be incorrect. You have yet to present, let alone use irrefutable facts.


He can not conceive that he is wrong.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> You are full of yourself.


Who else would I be full of?


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Quit being hypocritical and two faced. You claim to want to teach me something? *I hear every damn thing that is being said*. I can argue it better than you. But, there is no way to earn your respect when you don't respect yourself. You allow disgraced people like Sarge7402 with his *nonexistent *military record B.S. his way into this conversation and the people are slapping him on the back with that attaboy crap.
> 
> When you say something to that isn't a projection on your part, I will gladly put it to use. But, the point is, I can't say anything to the people here; they will only listen to me if I chant the correct mantra. I can sugar coat it and everything else. Bottom line pal: I had two decades plus experience before they even began considering this topic. Do you want me to repeat every argument they've made? Hell Club Fed, Liquid Reigns, TrickyDicksHotRodShop, Black Attucks, WMD, Tree Doc, Traxxas, sarge7402 - and whatever else he wants to call himself has been preaching your line to me for five years. I've had my home shot into thanks to that POS. My family has been threatened. The family cat was killed. I've listened to the B.S. line you guys have been exposed to more than all of you on this board. I got the freaking message. Your ball-less buddies have done everything except publicly debate me. Rest assured, they would LOSE.
> 
> If I say anything different, I'm arrogant? How freaking stupid can you be? I'm not arrogant; I'm fed up. You keep preaching about what you've done. Let's see if you can tell us the great big secret in five sentences. Quit playing Democrat just because you have a mob. A wise person once told me a person is known by the company they keep. Can you now disavow the stalker?


You hear everything being said? Well, I suppose you intentionally ignore good advice. Rather than listening, you go straight to insults. 
You remind me of my first wife. Are you attracted to me or something, as there is quite the similarity. Trust me, it would end poorly, even if I swung that way.


----------



## The Resister

traxxas said:


> yet your "assertions" are easily refuted and you are shown to be incorrect. You have yet to present, let alone use irrefutable facts.


bullshit


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> He can not conceive that he is wrong.


You just cannot conceive of the fact that even a broken clock has the potential to be right twice a day. You need a disgraced liar to help you beat me down? That's pure desperation on your part.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> You hear everything being said? Well, I suppose you intentionally ignore good advice. Rather than listening, you go straight to insults.
> You remind me of my first wife. Are you attracted to me or something, as there is quite the similarity. Trust me, it would end poorly, even if I swung that way.


You sound like the gaylord you are hosting now. You are the one claiming you wanted to _"help_" me. Why would you offer to help someone if you thought they were a fairy wanting you... unless. You told on yourself there pard.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> bullshit


Tell me about that advanced Christianity certificate, again.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> And you couldn't wait, indeed, could not stop yourself from rushing forward and verifying everything I said... while beating your chest yet some more. Wipe your foaming chin before someone takes you for a rabid dog.
> 
> View attachment 93975


Whatever you said is meaningless. Insults? That's the best you can do? I got one guy that says I'm wrong and yet you do with a mob and its right. At least you guys that live on this board are consistent with your inconsistency. You cannot stay on point (i.e. immigration) and NONE of you are capable of taking your own advice.

Compare what you say and your methodology. It's the same as employed by Hillary Clinton, Adam Schiff, and Chuck Schumer.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> bullshit


LMFAO You have yet to be correct about anything in this thread, please keep trying, maybe you should listen to what is being said verse just hearing what is said.


----------



## stevekozak

Good grief! Is this still going?


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> You sound like the gaylord you are hosting now. You are the one claiming you wanted to _"help_" me. Why would you offer to help someone if you thought they were a fairy wanting you... unless. You told on yourself there pard.


Hello Jimmy Wynne. - Discussion on Topix

Shouldn't talk about your personal life choices like that.


----------



## The Resister

When it comes to insults, there is a double standard here. It's quite amusing watching grown men get their boxers in a bunch AND the guys who were once BANNED are welcome back because you're desperate to gain the illusion of a "_win_" over me in a discussion.

*NOBODY* can refute what I've said relative to the topic *NOR* the direction that the movement (for lack of a more descriptive adjective) is going. The fact is your strategies are going to fail. The liberals will take from you everything you think you've won.

The key to political victory is not to piss off the left when they have more voters than the right. You have to institute strategies that say to them, you are no threat so no need to show up on election day. You don't believe that... I can live with it. Happy to say I told you so later. Those of you joining the stalker (who was the bad guy the last time) are only proving that you have *NO* loyalty to anything except the popular flavor of the day.

If you can ever grow a pair and you want to debate or discuss the issue of immigration, don't sing it - bring it. The *ONLY *chance any of you who have decided to participate in this ambush is anonymously on a board that is an echo chamber for the morally bankrupt position you've taken. BTW, yes I *DO* have some solutions that don't get presented on these discussion boards. I can share it with you in private. [email protected]


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> Hello Jimmy Wynne. - Discussion on Topix
> 
> Shouldn't talk about your personal life choices like that.


If Denton lets such shit remain on this board, he is no better than you. Then, again, maybe that is what got you banned the first time.

Not that it is important, but that is not my name so it isn't me. And since we're on the subject, this filthy POS tried to blackmail me with tall tales he thought others wouldn't know about if I'd agree to a sexual encounter with him. He got rebuffed and has stalked me for a number of years. If he's not a ******, there isn't a cow in Texas. But, then again, it won't be the first time he's played you guys.

Maybe the stalker shouldn't begin discussing his personal choices with you. If didn't have strange fantasies about me, what do you suppose makes him stalk me to the point that he eventually gets banned for shit like he just posted. That - along with Denton's stupidity took this board from family talk to trash that should only be discussed face to face.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> If you can ever grow a pair and you want to debate or discuss the issue of immigration, don't sing it - bring it. The *ONLY *chance any of you who have decided to participate in this ambush is anonymously on a board that is an echo chamber for the morally bankrupt position you've taken. BTW, yes I *DO* have some solutions that don't get presented on these discussion boards. I can share it with you in private. [email protected]


It was brought to you in this thread, each time you dismissed actual facts moved your goal posts, and made accusations that are factually incorrect. You were unable to refute anything actually thrown at you. As a ball player, you aren't capable of being the bat boi.


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> It was brought to you in this thread, each time you dismissed actual facts moved your goal posts, and made accusations that are factually incorrect. You were unable to refute anything actually thrown at you. As a ball player, you aren't capable of being the bat boi.


You're an idiot, a liar, a stalker, and plain chickensh!+. Since I don't owe you anything, I won't post links to facts that will just make the sheeple complain that it's too long to read. No goal post has been changed. You've been called out.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> You're an idiot, a liar, a stalker, and plain chickensh!


Don't forget meter reader...


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Traxxas said:


> Hello Jimmy Wynne. - Discussion on Topix
> 
> Shouldn't talk about your personal life choices like that.


What in the Sam Hill did I just read? :vs_shocked:

:vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> What in the Sam Hill did I just read? :vs_shocked:
> 
> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


You just read the stalker's greatest fantasy. It makes you wonder why he was Googling such idiocy. Then he comes up with someone with a similarly spelled named, just not my name. It goes back to the desperate attempt for some people to cover up the other lies they told on this board... like "random guy" and false references to a military background. He'll talk smack about me on discussion boards, but never to my face.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> You sound like the gaylord you are hosting now. You are the one claiming you wanted to _"help_" me. Why would you offer to help someone if you thought they were a fairy wanting you... unless. You told on yourself there pard.


You are so thick-skulled you don't recognize disarming humor and use it as a means by which to return in kind. Were I you, I would have responded with, "But I'm or great cook!" or, not even if I send flowers?"

Someone tries to throw you a life preserver and you argue with the flotation device.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> You're an idiot, a liar, a stalker, and plain chickensh!+. Since I don't owe you anything, I won't post links to facts that will just make the sheeple complain that it's too long to read. No goal post has been changed. You've been called out.


You've been called out on numerous occasions and you always deflect, duck and weave.

I try to help you, I try to get you to understand how to make people want to read your writings, and all you want to do is argue with me. I think it is an absolute shame. I really do.
You remind me of an aeronautical engineer. Trust me; I know. My second wife was one of them there critters.


----------



## Sasquatch

The Resister said:


> Yeah, like the *MILLIONS* with a criminal record who don't have a job abide by the laws.


Not sure what you're getting at, although I do appreciate your reply wasn't 16 paragraphs long. So are you saying the illegals are better than the citizen tax takers because they actually work (illegally selling handouts) or are you saying there are no citizens that illegally sell handouts because they're lazy (which I'm sure there are some that do) or..........?


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> You are so thick-skulled you don't recognize disarming humor and use it as a means by which to return in kind. Were I you, I would have responded with, "But I'm or great cook!" or, not even if I send flowers?"
> 
> Someone tries to throw you a life preserver and you argue with the flotation device.


I'm never kidding when Sarge7402... etc. is in the mix. How'd you end up on the same team as a troll that was previously banned here?


----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> You are so thick-skulled you don't recognize disarming humor and use it as a means by which to return in kind. Were I you, I would have responded with, "But I'm or great cook!" or, not even if I send flowers?"
> 
> Someone tries to throw you a life preserver and you argue with the flotation device.


Or:
"I am flattered by your interest, but I already HAVE a date for the prom."


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I'm never kidding when Sarge7402... etc. is in the mix. How'd you end up on the same team as a troll that was previously banned here?


As I told you in my reply via PM, I am on no team, and nobody is on mine. I stand where I am.


----------



## The Resister

Sasquatch said:


> Not sure what you're getting at, although I do appreciate your reply wasn't 16 paragraphs long. So are you saying the illegals are better than the citizen tax takers because they actually work (illegally selling handouts) or are you saying there are no citizens that illegally sell handouts because they're lazy (which I'm sure there are some that do) or..........?


Until you fix what is broken here - with Americans, you cannot stop the flood of immigrants into the United States. Sorry I cannot give you a college education in three sentences.


----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


> Or:
> "I am flattered by your interest, but I already HAVE a date for the prom."


I'd never use that. I hated the prom. My date was a bitch but I still made her my first wife.
Bad memories.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Until you fix what is broken here - with Americans, you cannot stop the flood of immigrants into the United States. Sorry I cannot give you a college education in three sentences.


See, you had to be an asshole, didn't you?

Had you left out that insult, your response would have been fodder for a great conversation.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> See, you had to be an asshole, didn't you?
> 
> Had you left out that insult, your response would have been fodder for a great conversation.


How much money do you want to bet that we could restart this conversation - without Club Fed (as he and I will NEVER have anything civil to say to each other) and the first insult hurled will be aimed at me? Let's go further. I won't respond and ANOTHER poster will hurl yet another insult... and a third insult will follow.

I'm not insulting people when I tell them I cannot explain this to them in three sentences. Even you have choked to death on ten paragraphs. It's like I asked you to read War and Peace.


----------



## Traxxas

You're not going to stop economic refugees from attempting to come here at all costs or entering illegally unless there are barriers in their way too large for them to overcome.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> Sorry I cannot give you a college education in three sentences.


Or three centuries.
This is the EXACT sort of self aggrandizing and condescending statement which makes you A) a blowhard B) a stuffed shirt C) self important, and D) therefore reprehensible to the general public. All he asked for was clarification, and you tossed aside that opportunity to both connect AND make yourself understood for another opportunity to puff and blow. Maybe I AM wrong about you needing medication... and will have to reluctantly concede that YES jackasses of this magnitude do walk amongst us.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> How much money do you want to bet that we could restart this conversation - without Club Fed (as he and I will NEVER have anything civil to say to each other) and the first insult hurled will be aimed at me? Let's go further. I won't respond and ANOTHER poster will hurl yet another insult... and a third insult will follow.
> 
> I'm not insulting people when I tell them I cannot explain this to them in three sentences. Even you have choked to death on ten paragraphs. It's like I asked you to read War and Peace.


I'm not going to bet anything. I'll just say there is a lot of evidence that you bring things on yourself and if you made an effort to not be that way, you might find others willing to change, too.

Most people are willing to get behind someone who is trying to change for the better. Heck, most are willing to go out of there way to support him. Sure, there are a couple people at work who aren't that way and that is why my nickname at work is still asshole. Still, there is this coming New Year's resolution for me to try it again! Wish me luck.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> Or three centuries.
> This is the EXACT sort of self aggrandizing and condescending statement which makes you A) a blowhard B) a stuffed shirt C) self important, and D) therefore reprehensible to the general public. All he asked for was clarification, and you tossed aside that opportunity to both connect AND make yourself understood for another opportunity to puff and blow. Maybe I AM wrong about you needing medication... and will have to reluctantly concede that YES jackasses of this magnitude do walk amongst us.


So, what reply would YOU have responded with that would convey the message without the usual insults that follow? Give us an example.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> So, what reply would YOU have responded with that would convey the message without the usual insults that follow? Give us an example.


First, forget about insults which might follow... this WAS an insult, an unnecessarily condescending and flip disrespectful remark from you rather than an answer to an honest inquiry.

Here is the question : "Not sure what you're getting at, although I do appreciate your reply wasn't 16 paragraphs long. So are you saying the illegals are better than the citizen tax takers because they actually work (illegally selling handouts) or are you saying there are no citizens that illegally sell handouts because they're lazy (which I'm sure there are some that do) or..........?

Seems like he's asking one of three things...
1) So are you saying the illegals are better than the citizen tax takers because they actually work (illegally selling handouts) 
2) or are you saying there are no citizens that illegally sell handouts because they're lazy (which I'm sure there are some that do) 
3) or..........? Which I would take to mean he's allowing for a 3rd possibility not yet raised.

Pretty simple stuff, don't you think?

Instead: "Hey, even though I am confident of being the Gweat and Tewwible OZ, even I cannot work miracles. You see, as smart as I am, I cannot transfer such a great wealth of pearls to even such a supplicant swine as yourself. No... it would just be pointless." Now, which of those 3 possibilities he inquired about does this address?


----------



## ekim

Wait for it,but I'm pretty sure it will be a FEEL good thing based on faith and if it doesn't go as he says it because so many didn't have the faith he does. But it will be some kind of BS babble.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> First, forget about insults which might follow... this WAS an insult, an unnecessarily condescending and flip disrespectful remark from you rather than an answer to an honest inquiry.
> 
> Here is the question : "Not sure what you're getting at, although I do appreciate your reply wasn't 16 paragraphs long. So are you saying the illegals are better than the citizen tax takers because they actually work (illegally selling handouts) or are you saying there are no citizens that illegally sell handouts because they're lazy (which I'm sure there are some that do) or..........?
> 
> Seems like he's asking one of three things...
> 1) So are you saying the illegals are better than the citizen tax takers because they actually work (illegally selling handouts)
> 2) or are you saying there are no citizens that illegally sell handouts because they're lazy (which I'm sure there are some that do)
> 3) or..........? Which I would take to mean he's allowing for a 3rd possibility not yet raised.
> 
> Pretty simple stuff, don't you think?
> 
> Instead: "Hey, even though I am confident of being the Gweat and Tewwible OZ, even I cannot work miracles. You see, as smart as I am, I cannot transfer such a great wealth of pearls to even such a supplicant swine as yourself. No... it would just be pointless." Now, which of those 3 possibilities he inquired about does this address?


????????????????????


----------



## The Resister

ekim said:


> Wait for it,but I'm pretty sure it will be a FEEL good thing based on faith and if it doesn't go as he says it because so many didn't have the faith he does. But it will be some kind of BS babble.


Do you have any faith? Do you believe in anything?


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> ????????????????????


Not clear enough? Maybe these will help....


----------



## ekim

kdutnvhfhfhfh


----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


> Not clear enough? Maybe these will help....
> 
> View attachment 93985
> 
> View attachment 93987
> 
> View attachment 93989


Those were hilarious! Reading them, @The Resister didn't come to mind. A fellow at work did. @The Resister has concepts worth discussing if he stops getting in the way. The fellow at work? If you could buy him for what he is worth and sell him for what he thinks he is worth, you'd never work another day in your life!


----------



## Sasquatch

The Resister said:


> Until you fix what is broken here - with Americans, you cannot stop the flood of immigrants into the United States. Sorry I cannot give you a college education in three sentences.


I've already paid off my college loans but if you'd like to reimburse me I'm happy to except. Ohhhhh, I get it. That was an insult. Bless your heart.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> You just cannot conceive of the fact that even a broken clock has the potential to be right twice a day. You need a disgraced liar to help you beat me down? That's pure desperation on your part.


As expected, popping up just like that turd that wont flush.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> bullshit


This here is the natural defense of the lefty troll.


----------



## RedLion

Traxxas said:


> It was brought to you in this thread, each time you dismissed actual facts moved your goal posts, and made accusations that are factually incorrect. You were unable to refute anything actually thrown at you. As a ball player, you aren't capable of being the bat boi.


Yep, spot on.


----------



## Prepared One

Denton said:


> I'd never use that. I hated the prom. My date was a bitch but I still made her my first wife.
> Bad memories.


Yeah, but at least she was smokin hot, right? :tango_face_grin:


----------



## Denton

Prepared One said:


> Yeah, but at least she was smokin hot, right? :tango_face_grin:


Yeah, well, that's how evil manifests itself.


----------



## RedLion

Illegals cost tax payers 155 billion per year. And this does not include the costs associated with....



> That number does not count externals such as:
> 
> •American jobs lost
> •Commerce affected by remittances to Mexico
> •Health crisis due to illegal drugs trafficked into our streets.
> •American deaths due to the illegal drugs in America today


https://www.fairus.org/sites/default/files/2017-09/Fiscal-Burden-of-Illegal-Immigration-2017.pdf

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/12/cost-of-wall/


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> Illegals cost tax payers 155 billion per year. And this does not include the costs associated with....
> 
> https://www.fairus.org/sites/default/files/2017-09/Fiscal-Burden-of-Illegal-Immigration-2017.pdf
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/12/cost-of-wall/


1) I hope you understand your cites are from a site funded by a white supremacist

2) The flip side to the supposed numbers of jobs lost are that most of those jobs aren't being filled because many *Americans* had rather receive welfare checks, disability, etc. than to work

3) A lot of the money sent to Mexico returns back here when people order goods and services from the United States

4) The economic angle that the John Tanton non-profits leaves out in the equation is that the cheap foreign workers are generating wealth as they work. At the end of the day, it is *very profitable *to have foreign labor

5) If Americans wanted those jobs, they would lose the tattoos, body piercings, the drug habit, and earn themselves a high school diploma. They would petition the government to refuse to give out their record unless the employer can show just cause for providing it (i.e. you don't need to know a warehouse worker smoked a joint when he was 17; you need to know about the bus driver that is hauling your most precious possession to and from school.)

Unless and until the American people get away from the idea that they need drugs to solve every problem they get, you will have an immigration problem. Those people are only filling a void created by a society that leaves the rearing of their children to the government - who turns millions into drug users... who then become a burden on society, leaving the door of opportunity open for foreigners to fill the void AND to supply the drug demand created by lazy parents, the government and Big Pharma.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> 1) I hope you understand your cites are from a site funded by a white supremacist
> 
> 2) The flip side to the supposed numbers of jobs lost are that most of those jobs aren't being filled because many *Americans* had rather receive welfare checks, disability, etc. than to work
> 
> 3) A lot of the money sent to Mexico returns back here when people order goods and services from the United States
> 
> 4) The economic angle that the John Tanton non-profits leaves out in the equation is that the cheap foreign workers are generating wealth as they work. At the end of the day, it is *very profitable *to have foreign labor
> 
> 5) If Americans wanted those jobs, they would lose the tattoos, body piercings, the drug habit, and earn themselves a high school diploma. They would petition the government to refuse to give out their record unless the employer can show just cause for providing it (i.e. you don't need to know a warehouse worker smoked a joint when he was 17; you need to know about the bus driver that is hauling your most precious possession to and from school.)
> 
> Unless and until the American people get away from the idea that they need drugs to solve every problem they get, you will have an immigration problem. Those people are only filling a void created by a society that leaves the rearing of their children to the government - who turns millions into drug users... who then become a burden on society, leaving the door of opportunity open for foreigners to fill the void AND to supply the drug demand created by lazy parents, the government and Big Pharma.


"Effective messaging." It would be easier for you to admit that you are biased and woefully wrong about this rather than blather about making a fool of yourself again.


----------



## ekim

RedLion said:


> "Effective messaging." It would be easier for you to admit that you are biased and woefully wrong about this rather than blather about making a fool of yourself again.


I think the RJAMES thing is contagious and spreading.


----------



## RedLion

ekim said:


> I think the RJAMES thing is contagious and spreading.


How they can not see the facts is astounding.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> "Effective messaging." It would be easier for you to admit that you are biased and woefully wrong about this rather than blather about making a fool of yourself again.


I admit that I am biased. Deep within my soul I believe that God blessed this country for a reason. To have my brethren fall so easily for the tricks of the left are a bitter pill to swallow. When the best solutions they can come up with are those used by heathens, communists, and third world dictatorships, it hurts me to the core. For we are not Mexico, China or some other place on the map. The United States was the greatest country in the annals of history.

To screw it up by not admitting that we are the drug capital of the world - by our own choosing makes me livid at what was once my own peer group. Furthermore, for those who are on drugs and their families not to realize that it is their habit that creates the demand for drug cartels means that I have to accept the fact that those on the right have conceded defeat to the left. BOTH the left as well as the right think that our strength comes from government. And so they believe that we must build a government so big that, should it become tyrannical (and history shows that it will), we can never resist. For if we only exclude whichever group those in power don't like then the whole world will be a wonderful place.

Every day I work with people who are content with mediocrity. They know nothing about sacrifice and hard work. They're Americans dammit and the government should look out for them. Yes, I am a fool to admit, in my mind, I thought it was inherent in our DNA that the posterity of the founders wanted to be self sufficient, self reliant, and independent. Instead we are a nation that wants and maybe now needs a government to pamper them, rule over them and control them from the womb to the tomb. We have fallen for the most basic tricks of the left to get to the point that both the left and the right want the same, exact thing, but delude themselves into thinking there is a problem because both sides want their side to get credit for what they mistakenly believe will be a good outcome.

I was too stupid to see that people could not understand what I was saying and read between the lines. In my utopia, the employer would hire whomever they wanted. If they were not being forced to hire X number of blacks, Y number of women or Z number of LGBT, etc. they would, in all likelihood hire people that were like the owners of the company. If that were the case, there would be more demand for white workers and those protected classes of people would have to get off their sorry asses and work instead of thinking that special laws guaranteeing them a job were their privilege and ticket to Easy Street.

In theory, that would then cause the government to begin cutting back on welfare and making people earn it instead of simply deciding they wanted to be a bunch of sorry sons of bitches - like most are. Yes, I'll say it. As a minister you try to help people and at some point you realize that a LOT of people out there want a free lunch at the expense of someone else. I wanted more and expected more from people like you. But, I was a fool. So, you have your admission. I truly believed that there were still enough people that would revert back to the will of God, heed his Commandment and we would reverse the the trend of being a dependent nation. Liberty could be restored and we could become a nation of abundance and, once again, the leader of the free world. Both sides, however, are committed to the idea that America needs a government so big that it can give them anything it wants. In Tytler's Cycle of History, we are at that final stage: Bondage.

The best I can hope for now is that I outlive that stage and see people decide to begin that era of Spiritual Faith. Yep, Red Lion. You busted me.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Effective immediately there should be a 10% tariff put on all money transfers from the US to Mexico.


----------



## Denton

RedLion said:


> "Effective messaging." It would be easier for you to admit that you are biased and woefully wrong about this rather than blather about making a fool of yourself again.


That's not the way to debate or discuss.

Take on the points, not the person.


----------



## Denton

Caravan members demanding either entry or $50K to go back home.

https://www.breitbart.com/border/20...nts-demand-entry-to-u-s-or-50k-each-to-leave/

Well versed in extortion, these are not the type of people we need.


----------



## Traxxas

Denton said:


> Caravan members demanding either entry or $50K to go back home.
> 
> https://www.breitbart.com/border/20...nts-demand-entry-to-u-s-or-50k-each-to-leave/
> 
> Well versed in extortion, these are not the type of people we need.


Pretty much proof they don't need asylum if $50K would buy their way back home.

They should go home anyways and demand that their government take care of them since the US gives their countries untold billions yearly.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> 1) I hope you understand your cites are from a site funded by a white supremacist
> 
> 2) The flip side to the supposed numbers of jobs lost are that most of those jobs aren't being filled because many *Americans* had rather receive welfare checks, disability, etc. than to work
> 
> 3) A lot of the money sent to Mexico returns back here when people order goods and services from the United States
> 
> 4) The economic angle that the John Tanton non-profits leaves out in the equation is that the cheap foreign workers are generating wealth as they work. At the end of the day, it is *very profitable *to have foreign labor
> 
> 5) If Americans wanted those jobs, they would lose the tattoos, body piercings, the drug habit, and earn themselves a high school diploma. They would petition the government to refuse to give out their record unless the employer can show just cause for providing it (i.e. you don't need to know a warehouse worker smoked a joint when he was 17; you need to know about the bus driver that is hauling your most precious possession to and from school.)
> 
> Unless and until the American people get away from the idea that they need drugs to solve every problem they get, you will have an immigration problem. Those people are only filling a void created by a society that leaves the rearing of their children to the government - who turns millions into drug users... who then become a burden on society, leaving the door of opportunity open for foreigners to fill the void AND to supply the drug demand created by lazy parents, the government and Big Pharma.


1) John Tanton is a Eugenicist, not a White Supremacist. He no longer heads FAIR. The gatewaypundit is more like Alex Jones. Either way you failed to address the point(s) made.

2) The only business owners complaining about not having enough workers is AG, yet they have a dedicated visa solely for them they fail to use. It has no limits on the amount of labors they can bring in legally. Even still, AG has over a 50% legal work force, the field workers are what are needed an those positions are for a few weeks at a time, which would require the person to migrate with the harvests in each state.

3) This is unprovable, services wouldn't go to Mexico, goods are minimal and are usually brought back to (insert any country) when they return to their home country.

4) Cheap foreign workers create wealth for themselves and the employer only, The general population subsidize everything else regarding them.

5) For many employers, tattoos and piercings have little to no effect on hiring someone, the drug habit has more effect since many companies require drug testing before hiring.

The immigration problem has always been, bad times, good times, made no difference, they are economic refugees, they can make in 1 hour here what takes them all day to make back home. Putting Americans back to work will not deter illegal immigrants from coming.


----------



## Denton

Traxxas said:


> Pretty much proof they don't need asylum if $50K would buy their way back home.
> 
> They should go home anyways and demand that their government take care of them since the US gives their countries untold billions yearly.


They should go home and make a difference, there.


----------



## Traxxas

RedLion said:


> Illegals cost tax payers 155 billion per year. And this does not include the costs associated with....
> 
> https://www.fairus.org/sites/default/files/2017-09/Fiscal-Burden-of-Illegal-Immigration-2017.pdf
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/12/cost-of-wall/


Illegal immigrants cause a loss to the annual GDP of .1%.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/Hanson-Dec09.pdf



> A second important effect of immigration on national income occurs through changes in the
> net tax burden on US households. Many unauthorized immigrants contribute to government
> coffers at the local, state, and federal levels by paying income, payroll, property, and sales
> taxes. They also increase government expenditure by using public services, including fire and
> police protection, public roads and bridges, publically funded emergency health care, and,
> most importantly, public education - though not all at the same levels as the native born.
> Whether illegal immigration causes the tax burden on natives to rise or fall depends on how
> much income immigrants earn, the size and structure of their families, and whether they
> receive public benefits. Based on the profile of immigrant households in the US Current
> Population Survey, households headed by an unauthorized immigrant appear to generate a
> short-run net fiscal cost of approximately 0.1 percent of US GDP. 24 Adding the small
> positive immigration surplus to the small negative net fiscal impact, the total short-run
> change in US national income from illegal immigration is -0.07 percent of GDP. While the
> value is negative, indicating illegal immigration on net lowers US national income, it is close
> enough to zero to be essentially a wash.


----------



## Traxxas

denton said:


> they should go home and make a difference, there.


eggszacklee


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> 1) John Tanton is a Eugenicist, not a White Supremacist. He no longer heads FAIR. The gatewaypundit is more like Alex Jones. Either way you failed to address the point(s) made.
> 
> 2) The only business owners complaining about not having enough workers is AG, yet they have a dedicated visa solely for them they fail to use. It has no limits on the amount of labors they can bring in legally. Even still, AG has over a 50% legal work force, the field workers are what are needed an those positions are for a few weeks at a time, which would require the person to migrate with the harvests in each state.
> 
> 3) This is unprovable, services wouldn't go to Mexico, goods are minimal and are usually brought back to (insert any country) when they return to their home country.
> 
> 4) Cheap foreign workers create wealth for themselves and the employer only, The general population subsidize everything else regarding them.
> 
> 5) For many employers, tattoos and piercings have little to no effect on hiring someone, the drug habit has more effect since many companies require drug testing before hiring.
> 
> The immigration problem has always been, bad times, good times, made no difference, they are economic refugees, they can make in 1 hour here what takes them all day to make back home. Putting Americans back to work will not deter illegal immigrants from coming.


I don't bother to read your tripe. I'm just telling those that read your crap must remember you are a liar that came here on a false pretense and when I quit posting on this board, you will go away. If you want to interact with me, I need to know who you are and what rock I need to flip over in order to see you face to face. Insinuating on this board that I was a ****** like you should have gotten you banned a second time, but I can work with what we have here.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I don't bother to read your tripe. I'm just telling those that read your crap must remember you are a liar that came here on a false pretense and when I quit posting on this board, you will go away. If you want to interact with me, I need to know who you are and what rock I need to flip over in order to see you face to face. Insinuating on this board that I was a ****** like you should have gotten you banned a second time, but I can work with what we have here.


Expect you both to stick to the topics and stay away from personal attacks. Get back to the topic, folks.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> I admit that I am biased. Deep within my soul I believe that God blessed this country for a reason. To have my brethren fall so easily for the tricks of the left are a bitter pill to swallow. When the best solutions they can come up with are those used by heathens, communists, and third world dictatorships, it hurts me to the core. For we are not Mexico, China or some other place on the map. The United States was the greatest country in the annals of history.
> 
> To screw it up by not admitting that we are the drug capital of the world - by our own choosing makes me livid at what was once my own peer group. Furthermore, for those who are on drugs and their families not to realize that it is their habit that creates the demand for drug cartels means that I have to accept the fact that those on the right have conceded defeat to the left. BOTH the left as well as the right think that our strength comes from government. And so they believe that we must build a government so big that, should it become tyrannical (and history shows that it will), we can never resist. For if we only exclude whichever group those in power don't like then the whole world will be a wonderful place.
> 
> Every day I work with people who are content with mediocrity. They know nothing about sacrifice and hard work. They're Americans dammit and the government should look out for them. Yes, I am a fool to admit, in my mind, I thought it was inherent in our DNA that the posterity of the founders wanted to be self sufficient, self reliant, and independent. Instead we are a nation that wants and maybe now needs a government to pamper them, rule over them and control them from the womb to the tomb. We have fallen for the most basic tricks of the left to get to the point that both the left and the right want the same, exact thing, but delude themselves into thinking there is a problem because both sides want their side to get credit for what they mistakenly believe will be a good outcome.
> 
> I was too stupid to see that people could not understand what I was saying and read between the lines. In my utopia, the employer would hire whomever they wanted. If they were not being forced to hire X number of blacks, Y number of women or Z number of LGBT, etc. they would, in all likelihood hire people that were like the owners of the company. If that were the case, there would be more demand for white workers and those protected classes of people would have to get off their sorry asses and work instead of thinking that special laws guaranteeing them a job were their privilege and ticket to Easy Street.
> 
> In theory, that would then cause the government to begin cutting back on welfare and making people earn it instead of simply deciding they wanted to be a bunch of sorry sons of bitches - like most are. Yes, I'll say it. As a minister you try to help people and at some point you realize that a LOT of people out there want a free lunch at the expense of someone else. I wanted more and expected more from people like you. But, I was a fool. So, you have your admission. I truly believed that there were still enough people that would revert back to the will of God, heed his Commandment and we would reverse the the trend of being a dependent nation. Liberty could be restored and we could become a nation of abundance and, once again, the leader of the free world. Both sides, however, are committed to the idea that America needs a government so big that it can give them anything it wants. In Tytler's Cycle of History, we are at that final stage: Bondage.
> 
> The best I can hope for now is that I outlive that stage and see people decide to begin that era of Spiritual Faith. Yep, Red Lion. You busted me.


Long effective messaging rambling....


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> Long effective messaging rambling....


Pardon the Hell out of me. I forgot that anything more than a tweet challenges your IQ. Is that too many words for you to understand?


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Expect you both to stick to the topics and stay away from personal attacks. Get back to the topic, folks.


The topic is that 63 percent of "_illegals_" as the uninformed call them use welfare. Here is the first paragraph from that article in the OP:

"_A majority of "non-citizens," including those with *legal green card rights*, are tapping into welfare programs set up to help poor and ailing Americans, a Census Bureau finding that bolsters President Trump's concern about immigrants costing the nation_." (Emphasis mine, of course)

The OP's title is dishonest and misleading. Such tactics make it hard to sell to the public at large when you are blatantly lying about the facts. If someone has "_legal green card rights_," they are not (by any stretch of the imagination) an "_illegal_" alien. My position is that America has an immigration problem. Those "_legal green card_" holders sucking off the dole are just as much a part of the problem as the people who come here via the southern border without papers. They are not _"illegal aliens_" and the proposed solutions on the table IGNORE the root of the real problem. Your solutions must, of necessity, begin with realizing that we have an *IMMIGRATION* problem.


----------



## Traxxas

> "Concern over immigrant welfare use is justified, as households headed by non-citizens use means-tested welfare at high rates. *Non-citizens in the data include illegal immigrants,* long-term temporary visitors like guest workers, and permanent residents who have not naturalized. While barriers to welfare use exist for these groups, it has not prevented them from making extensive use of the welfare system, often receiving benefits on behalf of U.S.-born children," added the Washington-based immigration think tank.


Further down in the article it states _Non-citizens in the data includes illegal immigrants_, the rest of the article points out that all immigrants use welfare and over time the number actually increases, as stated in the 2nd paragraph of the article.


----------



## The Resister

WhatTheHeck said:


> I hear a lot of leftists who claim illegals contribute to the local economies even though they do not pay taxes.
> 
> Then I read reports like this.
> 
> Recently read a report saying Social Security is in big trouble as in 2010 we fell to the 2.8 workers to 1 beneficiaries and it is projected to fall even further. Note: in order to be viable there has to be at a minimum 3 workers to every 1 beneficiary.
> 
> Meanwhile, you have these illegals not only not contributing, but also taking at the same time.
> 
> In short, we are running out of money.


I realize you believe that nonsense, but it *IS* nonsense. The fact is, a real constitutionalist would have the audacity to challenge what you're saying. *ALL* of us pay taxes. The only tax that is in dispute is the Federal Income Tax and that law is unconstitutional, immoral, unethical, illegal, reprehensible, and an abomination. Still, three quarters of those in this country without papers pay the freaking tax. AND, to add insult to injury, they cannot take out one thin dime in retirement. The undocumented pay *$12 BILLION DOLLARS per year* into Socialist Security.

On that count, I would have the 16th Amendment nullified and / or repealed. It, like the 14th Amendment was illegally passed into law and is little more than a plank out of the Communist Manifesto. That propaganda that the left got you to buy into stopped the tax protest movement when the Tea Party Republicans passed the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify based upon your SSN (which is now your de facto National ID Card Number.) Now, if you want a *REAL* solution that addresses the very issue you bring up here (vital if you are nearing retirement age or already on Socialist Security) this link is well worth your time:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/usmilitias/immigration-debacle-the-truth-at-last-t110.html


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> I realize you believe that nonsense, but it *IS* nonsense. The fact is, a real constitutionalist would have the audacity to challenge what you're saying. *ALL* of us pay taxes. The only tax that is in dispute is the Federal Income Tax and that law is unconstitutional, immoral, unethical, illegal, reprehensible, and an abomination. Still, three quarters of those in this country without papers pay the freaking tax.


They do not pay income tax, they get payroll taxes deducted just like everybody else, they also claim allowances as high as possible, some even claim to be exempt, they file tax forms on their income and then they receive back more than they had with held. What happens is money from their payroll deductions goes into specific suspense files and then their income tax filings takes money out of another fund to give back to them, nothing more then money shuffling.

https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf



> Individuals Who Are Not Authorized to Work in the United States Were Paid $4.2 Billion in Refundable Credits





The Resister said:


> AND, to add insult to injury, they cannot take out one thin dime in retirement. The undocumented pay *$12 BILLION DOLLARS per year* into Socialist Security.


Totalization Agreements say otherwise along with being granted PRUCOL status such as DACA recipients. The undocumented do not pay $12B per year as has already been shown to you, why you keep repeating this BS is simply disingenuous.



The Resister said:


> On that count, I would have the 16th Amendment nullified and / or repealed. It, like the 14th Amendment was illegally passed into law and is little more than a plank out of the Communist Manifesto. That propaganda that the left got you to buy into stopped the tax protest movement when the Tea Party Republicans passed the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify based upon your SSN (which is now your de facto National ID Card Number.) Now, if you want a *REAL* solution that addresses the very issue you bring up here (vital if you are nearing retirement age or already on Socialist Security) this link is well worth your time:
> 
> https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/usmilitias/immigration-debacle-the-truth-at-last-t110.html


On what grounds would the 16th or 14th be nullified or repealed? Why are you skipping over the 13th and 15th Amendments, being how they were passed the same way as the 14th? A "theory" from the 1950's isn't evidence. In your link you try to narrate and direct readers based on you failing to give all the information, i.e. Ranch Rescue from your first comment - a felon with a weapon, illegally holding simple trespassers at gun point and abusing them via pistol whipping. The Ranch Rescue debacle isn't a good start to your *REAL* solutions.

Your claim the 16th was "on the ropes"... is laughable at best, the Fair Tax never made it out of Congressional Committee, the 16th was never on the ropes. The 14th does not "create two separate and distinct classes of citizens." That is nothing more than Sovereign Citizen idiocy. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement


----------



## Denton

Traxxas said:


> They do not pay income tax, they get payroll taxes deducted just like everybody else, they also claim allowances as high as possible, some even claim to be exempt, they file tax forms on their income and then they receive back more than they had with held. What happens is money from their payroll deductions goes into specific suspense files and then their income tax filings takes money out of another fund to give back to them, nothing more then money shuffling.
> 
> https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
> 
> Totalization Agreements say otherwise along with being granted PRUCOL status such as DACA recipients. The undocumented do not pay $12B per year as has already been shown to you, why you keep repeating this BS is simply disingenuous.
> 
> On what grounds would the 16th or 14th be nullified or repealed? Why are you skipping over the 13th and 15th Amendments, being how they were passed the same way as the 14th? A "theory" from the 1950's isn't evidence. In your link you try to narrate and direct readers based on you failing to give all the information, i.e. Ranch Rescue from your first comment - a felon with a weapon, illegally holding simple trespassers at gun point and abusing them via pistol whipping. The Ranch Rescue debacle isn't a good start to your *REAL* solutions.
> 
> Your claim the 16th was "on the ropes"... is laughable at best, the Fair Tax never made it out of Congressional Committee, the 16th was never on the ropes. The 14th does not "create two separate and distinct classes of citizens." That is nothing more than Sovereign Citizen idiocy.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement


It's a matter of if an amendment is properly ratified. A few of them were not.


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> They do not pay income tax, they get payroll taxes deducted just like everybody else, they also claim allowances as high as possible, some even claim to be exempt, they file tax forms on their income and then they receive back more than they had with held. What happens is money from their payroll deductions goes into specific suspense files and then their income tax filings takes money out of another fund to give back to them, nothing more then money shuffling.
> 
> https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2011reports/201141061fr.pdf
> 
> Totalization Agreements say otherwise along with being granted PRUCOL status such as DACA recipients. The undocumented do not pay $12B per year as has already been shown to you, why you keep repeating this BS is simply disingenuous.
> 
> On what grounds would the 16th or 14th be nullified or repealed? Why are you skipping over the 13th and 15th Amendments, being how they were passed the same way as the 14th? A "theory" from the 1950's isn't evidence. In your link you try to narrate and direct readers based on you failing to give all the information, i.e. Ranch Rescue from your first comment - a felon with a weapon, illegally holding simple trespassers at gun point and abusing them via pistol whipping. The Ranch Rescue debacle isn't a good start to your *REAL* solutions.
> 
> Your claim the 16th was "on the ropes"... is laughable at best, the Fair Tax never made it out of Congressional Committee, the 16th was never on the ropes. The 14th does not "create two separate and distinct classes of citizens." That is nothing more than Sovereign Citizen idiocy.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement


I find your post to be irrelevant, full of errors that have already been refuted, and nothing more than a thinly disguised way of circumventing what Denton asked you not to do. As long as you keep calling me a liar, you aren't getting squat about me. Any POS that bullies me and won't stand up to me like a man deserves no more that what I'm going to say here:

You have claimed things by* LOWER AUTHORITIES *to refute what the* highest authorities* have stated. You will cite a regulatory agency over a United States Supreme Court decision. Life don't work that way son. so go back to the books and see if you cannot come up with something better, stalker.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> It's a matter of if an amendment is properly ratified. A few of them were not.


The stalker knows this. He simply believes that those who obsess over the wall are complete idiots. He has an entire career devoted to attempting to take me down. Most of the time he has succeeded in getting my points deleted from threads and he's preying on the usual tactic of making a false and baseless claim, knowing that if you're one of the low information sheeple, you won't look at all the facts.

For example, I don't care whether tax money ends up in a special fund for Socialist Security (and our local conservative radio talk show host, Herman Cain claims in one breath that such does not exist while feeding the stalker in the very next breath) the bottom line fact is, most undocumented foreigners pay the communistic income tax. The government gets the money at the end of the day. We don't need the income tax. Those who obsess over the wall make it plain: to them it is more important to prop up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto than it is to address any legitimate concern over *immigration*.

I see the same things Congress sees and we are *NOT *going to win the debate inside Congress with the Tea Party Republicans faulty reasoning. If you look closely every time someone switches sides, they are swinging left. EVERY election cycle for the last half dozen bear this irrefutable fact out. That does not mean we don't have an *immigration problem*. The problem, however, is being created by the fact that our own government is creating a class of Americans that are locked out of the system and may never be able to function in society. If we don't get to the root of the problem, we are going to wake up one day looking like Venezuela.


----------



## The Resister

Either undocumented immigrants pay the taxes or they don't. This article will explain it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/

Undocumented immigrants pay taxes, work for less in wages, and produce more per man hour than their American counterparts. This isn't a right v. left issue; it is not conservative v. liberal; it is not Republican v. Democrat. It's just the facts.

Those people are here because we are locking our own people out of the system AND we are making the posterity of the founders live in bondage while the third world takes over. They key to this issue is realizing that we have to fix our societal problem and put America back to work. They absolutely are NOT going to do it as long as the government, doctors, mental health officials, Big Pharma and misguided mommies keep the younger generations on drugs and allowing them to draw a government check instead of getting out there and working.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> Pardon the Hell out of me. I forgot that anything more than a tweet challenges your IQ. Is that too many words for you to understand?


Oh brother still has no clue.


----------



## ekim

RedLion said:


> Oh brother still has no clue.


You can't fix stupid, save your breath.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> Oh brother still has no clue.


I don't speak geek, but for real, you don't have a clue because you're too lazy to read, research, and challenge what you believe. What you're selling isn't being bought on Capitol Hill. That's where it really matters.


----------



## The Resister

ekim said:


> You can't fix stupid, save your breath.


Are you a moron? Denton has already chastised us for personal attacks. Surely you have enough left of your IQ to make a point without the personal attacks, don't you?


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> I don't speak geek, but for real, you don't have a clue because you're too lazy to read, research, and challenge what you believe. What you're selling isn't being bought on Capitol Hill. That's where it really matters.


"Effective Messaging." I suggest that you go back to your first post and start reading forward from there. I am concerned about you. Something obvious to the rest of us that you are not getting. Have you had any recent medication changes or illnesses?


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> "Effective Messaging." I suggest that you go back to your first post and start reading forward from there. I am concerned about you. Something obvious to the rest of us that you are not getting. Have you had any recent medication changes or illnesses?


Unlike you, I don't drink nor feed a drug habit to make it through the day. And you can quit jockeying for me to try it. I'm telling you: get off the meds and you can thank me later. You have an idea as to what appeals to the masses. I'm always looking for that guy who puts the time into research and understanding. You just don't get it. Not every post is about you nor is it directed to everyone on this board.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> Unlike you, I don't drink nor feed a drug habit to make it through the day. And you can quit jockeying for me to try it. I'm telling you: get off the meds and you can thank me later. You have an idea as to what appeals to the masses. I'm always looking for that guy who puts the time into research and understanding. You just don't get it. Not every post is about you nor is it directed to everyone on this board.


Ok, so you are having some emotional "crisis" then. Anxiety and anger for sue. Don't feel like you need to tackle your demons on your own bud. Paxil with some PRN Ativan would likely help quite a bit.


----------



## Traxxas

Denton said:


> It's a matter of if an amendment is properly ratified. A few of them were not.


They all were, it is Sovereign Citizen claims that they were not. If they were not the SCOTUS would not have used them in court cases.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> I find your post to be irrelevant, full of errors that have already been refuted, and nothing more than a thinly disguised way of circumventing what Denton asked you not to do. As long as you keep calling me a liar, you aren't getting squat about me. Any POS that bullies me and won't stand up to me like a man deserves no more that what I'm going to say here:
> 
> You have claimed things by* LOWER AUTHORITIES *to refute what the* highest authorities* have stated. You will cite a regulatory agency over a United States Supreme Court decision. Life don't work that way son. so go back to the books and see if you cannot come up with something better, stalker.


Please point out where I used the word liar in any of my comments..... I'll wait.:vs_lol:

What "lower authorities" have I used? What "highest authorities" have you used?

Maybe you should heed Denton's advice: _Expect you both to stick to the topics and stay away from personal attacks. Get back to the topic
_


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> The stalker knows this. He simply believes that those who obsess over the wall are complete idiots. He has an entire career devoted to attempting to take me down. Most of the time he has succeeded in getting my points deleted from threads and he's preying on the usual tactic of making a false and baseless claim, knowing that if you're one of the low information sheeple, you won't look at all the facts.
> 
> For example, I don't care whether tax money ends up in a special fund for Socialist Security (and our local conservative radio talk show host, Herman Cain claims in one breath that such does not exist while feeding the stalker in the very next breath) the bottom line fact is, most undocumented foreigners pay the communistic income tax. The government gets the money at the end of the day. We don't need the income tax. Those who obsess over the wall make it plain: to them it is more important to prop up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto than it is to address any legitimate concern over *immigration*.
> 
> I see the same things Congress sees and we are *NOT *going to win the debate inside Congress with the Tea Party Republicans faulty reasoning. If you look closely every time someone switches sides, they are swinging left. EVERY election cycle for the last half dozen bear this irrefutable fact out. That does not mean we don't have an *immigration problem*. The problem, however, is being created by the fact that our own government is creating a class of Americans that are locked out of the system and may never be able to function in society. If we don't get to the root of the problem, we are going to wake up one day looking like Venezuela.


Let's look at what you are saying: _we are NOT going to win the debate inside Congress with the Tea Party Republicans faulty reasoning._
And yet you believe Herman Cains supposed claim there is no ESF for non-matching SS numbers. You do realize Herman Cain is a Tea Party Republican, right?


> Herman Cain (born December 13, 1945)[2] is an American politician and author, business executive, radio host, syndicated columnist, and Tea Party activist from Georgia.[3][4][5] He was a candidate for the 2012 U.S. Republican Party presidential nomination.[3]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Cain :vs_lol:


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> Either undocumented immigrants pay the taxes or they don't. This article will explain it:
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/
> 
> Undocumented immigrants pay taxes, work for less in wages, and produce more per man hour than their American counterparts. This isn't a right v. left issue; it is not conservative v. liberal; it is not Republican v. Democrat. It's just the facts.
> 
> Those people are here because we are locking our own people out of the system AND we are making the posterity of the founders live in bondage while the third world takes over. They key to this issue is realizing that we have to fix our societal problem and put America back to work. They absolutely are NOT going to do it as long as the government, doctors, mental health officials, Big Pharma and misguided mommies keep the younger generations on drugs and allowing them to draw a government check instead of getting out there and working.


You do realize that link says there is an ESF account, right? You know, the one you claim doesn't exist. 


> Every year, the Social Security Administration collects billions of dollars in taxes that it doesn't know who paid. Whenever employers send in W-2 forms that have Social Security numbers that don't match with anyone on record, the agency routes the paperwork to what's called the Earnings Suspense File, where it sits until people can prove the wages were theirs, allowing them to one day collect retirement benefits.
> 
> The Earnings Suspense File now contains Social Security tax forms that date back to 1937 and are linked to the taxes that were paid on nearly $1.3 trillion in wages. Some of the W-2s in it belong to people who got married and never reported changing their name. Others are people who filled out their tax forms incorrectly. As of 2014, efforts to track these taxpayers down allowed the Social Security Administration to match 171 million tax forms to their rightful owners.


Once again you prove your own bravado is nothing more then your own ignorance.

Illegals are here because they are nothing more then economic refugees, they are here in good times and bad times, putting our people back to work will not keep them from coming.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> The stalker knows this. He simply believes that those who obsess over the wall are complete idiots. He has an entire career devoted to attempting to take me down. Most of the time he has succeeded in getting my points deleted from threads and he's preying on the usual tactic of making a false and baseless claim, knowing that if you're one of the low information sheeple, you won't look at all the facts.
> 
> For example, I don't care whether tax money ends up in a special fund for Socialist Security (and our local conservative radio talk show host, Herman Cain claims in one breath that such does not exist while feeding the stalker in the very next breath) the bottom line fact is, most undocumented foreigners pay the communistic income tax. The government gets the money at the end of the day. We don't need the income tax. Those who obsess over the wall make it plain: to them it is more important to prop up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto than it is to address any legitimate concern over *immigration*.
> 
> I see the same things Congress sees and we are *NOT *going to win the debate inside Congress with the Tea Party Republicans faulty reasoning. If you look closely every time someone switches sides, they are swinging left. EVERY election cycle for the last half dozen bear this irrefutable fact out. That does not mean we don't have an *immigration problem*. The problem, however, is being created by the fact that our own government is creating a class of Americans that are locked out of the system and may never be able to function in society. If we don't get to the root of the problem, we are going to wake up one day looking like Venezuela.


The government might not get the money without the income tax - if you are talking about the federal income tax.
The federal income tax reaches beyond the state governments and directly into the citizens' pockets. That takes power from the states, preventing the states from starving an overreaching federal government.


----------



## Denton

Traxxas said:


> You do realize that link says there is an ESF account, right? You know, the one you claim doesn't exist.
> Once again you prove your own bravado is nothing more then your own ignorance.
> 
> Illegals are here because they are nothing more then economic refugees, they are here in good times and bad times, putting our people back to work will not keep them from coming.


Come on! Again, as I said, discuss the topic without the personal attacks. Not hard.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> Ok, so you are having some emotional "crisis" then. Anxiety and anger for sue. Don't feel like you need to tackle your demons on your own bud. Paxil with some PRN Ativan would likely help quite a bit.


I'm telling you RedLion, the drugs you take are not only affecting your concentration, they are making you sound redundant and stupid.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I'm telling you RedLion, the drugs you take are not only affecting your concentration, they are making you sound redundant and stupid.


again, topics and not people. @RedLion, you too.
Let's discipline ourselves.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Come on! Again, as I said, discuss the topic without the personal attacks. Not hard.


Denton, While I appreciate your efforts, the stalker and I cannot address each other civilly. His modus operandi is to attack and belittle me until I leave or get banned. Then he follows me to the next board. I would suggest that he refrain from addressing me and I will not respond when there is nothing to respond to.

When that individual threatened my family and then endangered my life, he set the stage for an inevitability. He and I will face off at some point. That being said, knowing Herman Cain on a first name basis, I was quite aware of what I'm posting.

Back to the subject at hand: The objective now, as I understand it, is to keep people from coming here. How come we want that to apply only to those from south of the border? The two Muslim women that just got elected in the House of Representatives will be supporting legislation that weakens the traditional American values. So will a lot of the other lefties we allowed to be elected. There is something about this whole discussion that makes it sound like an episode of The Twilight Zone.


----------



## Denton

Traxxas said:


> They all were, it is Sovereign Citizen claims that they were not. If they were not the SCOTUS would not have used them in court cases.


What's required to ratify an amendment? Two-thirds of both houses, right?


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Denton, While I appreciate your efforts, the stalker and I cannot address each other civilly. His modus operandi is to attack and belittle me until I leave or get banned. Then he follows me to the next board. I would suggest that he refrain from addressing me and I will not respond when there is nothing to respond to.
> 
> When that individual threatened my family and then endangered my life, he set the stage for an inevitability. He and I will face off at some point. That being said, knowing Herman Cain on a first name basis, I was quite aware of what I'm posting.
> 
> Back to the subject at hand: The objective now, as I understand it, is to keep people from coming here. How come we want that to apply only to those from south of the border? The two Muslim women that just got elected in the House of Representatives will be supporting legislation that weakens the traditional American values. So will a lot of the other lefties we allowed to be elected. There is something about this whole discussion that makes it sound like an episode of The Twilight Zone.


Here's the thing. You both can type on keyboards and posts paragraphs on a forum without getting personal. Y'all can. I highly suggest it.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Here's the thing. You both can type on keyboards and posts paragraphs on a forum without getting personal. Y'all can. I highly suggest it.


The problem is I think for myself. Don't need the stalker accusing me of being a "_Sovereign Citizen_." EVERYBODY here gets mad when you equate them with the National Socialists at the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIRUS), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), etc. Then a pissing match ensues. It's no different with the stalker. Outside of my activity within a church, I'm not on anybody's political bandwagon.

But, back to the topic at hand:

This situation has three aspects: The *legality* of the situation, the *morality* of it, and the* reality* of it. Government may have the POWER to enforce unconstitutional laws, but they do not have the AUTHORITY. The reality is, they will continue to enforce tyrannical and unconstitutional laws until we wake up and work to exhaust all of our nonviolent legal and political avenues of redress. That begins by pointing out what the government did (especially when they did so illegally) that put us in the position we are in today.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> The problem is I think for myself. Don't need the stalker accusing me of being a "_Sovereign Citizen_." EVERYBODY here gets mad when you equate them with the National Socialists at the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIRUS), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), etc. Then a pissing match ensues. It's no different with the stalker. Outside of my activity within a church, I'm not on anybody's political bandwagon.
> 
> But, back to the topic at hand:
> 
> This situation has three aspects: The *legality* of the situation, the *morality* of it, and the* reality* of it. Government may have the POWER to enforce unconstitutional laws, but they do not have the AUTHORITY. The reality is, they will continue to enforce tyrannical and unconstitutional laws until we wake up and work to exhaust all of our nonviolent legal and political avenues of redress. That begins by pointing out what the government did (especially when they did so illegally) that put us in the position we are in today.


Not looking for reasons for not talking about the topics. Let's get on point.


----------



## Traxxas

Denton said:


> What's required to ratify an amendment? Two-thirds of both houses, right?


Both Amendments in question were ratified by 3/4 of the states, 2/3 of Congress proposed a Joint Resolution that the states adopted. Both were ratified by the required 3/4 of the states.

If we go Art V then 2/3 of the states must call for it.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> This situation has three aspects: The *legality* of the situation, the *morality* of it, and the* reality* of it. Government may have the POWER to enforce unconstitutional laws, but they do not have the AUTHORITY. The reality is, they will continue to enforce tyrannical and unconstitutional laws until we wake up and work to exhaust all of our nonviolent legal and political avenues of redress. That begins by pointing out what the government did (especially when they did so illegally) that put us in the position we are in today.


SCOTUS has concluded the 14th and 16th Amendments are Constitutional, that is the legality, morality, and reality of the situation.


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> SCOTUS has concluded the 14th and 16th Amendments are Constitutional, that is the legality, morality, and reality of the situation.


No, it is NOT. You're not God and I'd appreciate it if you would quit addressing me - unless you want to settle up in PM.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> No, it is NOT. You're not God and I'd appreciate it if you would quit addressing me - unless you want to settle up in PM.


I don't need to be God to read SCOTUS opinion.

Here it is from US V Benson


> Benson was unsuccessful with his Sixteenth Amendment argument when he had his own legal problems. He was prosecuted for tax evasion and willful failure to file tax returns. The court rejected his Sixteenth Amendment "non-ratification" argument in United States v. Benson.[13] William J. Benson was convicted of tax evasion and willful failure to file tax returns in connection with over $100,000 of unreported income, and his conviction was upheld on appeal. He was sentenced to four years in prison and five years of probation.[14]
> 
> On December 17, 2007, the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois ruled that Benson's non-ratification argument constituted a "fraud perpetrated by Benson" that had "caused needless confusion and a waste of the customers' and the IRS' time and resources".[15] The court stated: "Benson has failed to point to evidence that would create a genuinely disputed fact regarding whether the Sixteenth Amendment was properly ratified or whether United States Citizens are legally obligated to pay federal taxes."[16] The court ruled that "Benson's position has no merit and he has used his fraudulent tax advice to deceive other citizens and profit from it" in violation of 26 U.S.C. § 6700.[17] The court granted an injunction under 26 U.S.C. § 7408 prohibiting Benson from promoting the theories in Benson's "Reliance Defense Package" (containing the non-ratification argument), which the court referred to as "false and fraudulent advice concerning the payment of federal taxes".[18][19]
> 
> Benson appealed that decision, and the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit also ruled against Benson. The Court of Appeals stated:
> 
> Benson knew or had reason to know that his statements were false or fraudulent. 26 U.S.C. [section] 6700(a)(2)(A). Benson's claim to have discovered that the Sixteenth Amendment was not ratified has been rejected by this Court in Benson's own criminal appeal. ... Benson knows that his claim that he can rely on his book to prevent federal prosecution is equally false because his attempt to rely on his book in his own criminal case was ineffective.[20]
> 
> The Court of Appeals also ruled that the government could obtain a ruling ordering Benson to turn his customer list over to the government.[21] Benson petitioned the United States Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court rejected his petition on November 30, 2009.[22]


How about Stubbs V Commissioner


> In Stubbs v. Commissioner, Charles Stubbs argued that he had no Federal income tax liability because the Sixteenth Amendment had not been ratified properly. The Court rejected that argument, stating: "we find Stubbs' argument without merit. Notification by a state that it has ratified an amendment is binding upon the Secretary of State, and his official certification of ratification is conclusive upon the courts. ... Stubbs' assertion of fraudulent behavior on the part of the Secretary of State in certifying ratification does not remove the Secretary's determination from this conclusive effect."[23] Similar Sixteenth Amendment arguments have been uniformly rejected by other United States Circuit courts in other cases including Sisk v. Commissioner;[24] United States v. Sitka;[25] and United States v. Stahl.[26] The non-ratification argument has been specifically deemed legally frivolous in Brown v. Commissioner;[27] Lysiak v. Commissioner;[28] and Miller v. United States.[29]


How about US V Thomas


> Although Thomas urges us to take the view of several state courts that only agreement on the literal text may make a legal document effective, the Supreme Court follows the "enrolled bill rule". If a legislative document is authenticated in regular form by the appropriate officials, the court treats that document as properly adopted. Field v. Clark, 143 U.S. 649, 36 L.Ed. 294, 12 S.Ct. 495 (1892). The principle is equally applicable to constitutional amendments. See Leser v. Garnett, 258 U.S. 130, 66 L.Ed. 505, 42 S.Ct. 217 (1922), which treats as conclusive the declaration of the Secretary of State that the nineteenth amendment had been adopted. In United States v. Foster, 789 F.2d. 457, 462-463, n.6 (7th Cir. 1986), we relied on Leser, as well as the inconsequential nature of the objections in the face of the 73-year acceptance of the effectiveness of the sixteenth amendment, to reject a claim similar to Thomas's. See also Coleman v. Miller, 307 U.S. 433, 83 L. Ed. 1385, 59 S. Ct. 972 (1939) (questions about ratification of amendments may be nonjusticiable). Secretary Knox declared that enough states had ratified the sixteenth amendment. The Secretary's decision is not transparently defective. We need not decide when, if ever, such a decision may be reviewed in order to know that Secretary Knox's decision is now beyond review.
> - United States v. Thomas


Keep in mind you consider the SCOTUS to be the "highest authority".


The Resister said:


> You have claimed things by* LOWER AUTHORITIES *to refute what the* highest authorities* have stated. You will cite a regulatory agency over a United States Supreme Court decision. Life don't work that way son. so go back to the books and see if you cannot come up with something better, stalker.


 Deny these Supreme Court Opinions. :vs_lol:


----------



## The Resister

The 14th Amendment was never legally ratified:

The Fourteenth Amendment is Unconstitutional - Judge L.H. Perez

David Lawrence: There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!

http://www.14th-amendment.com/Misce..._Not_Ratified/14th_Amendment_Not_Ratified.pdf

https://amadon606.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/14th_amendment_illegal_never_ratified/

Should I take the word of an anonymous stalker OR the opinion of a judge? When legal theories are presented and pursued, you may very well prevail *IF *you have a contingent of dedicated people to right a wrong.

Without a proper understanding of this subject, the whole argument of legal versus so - called _"illegal_" aliens becomes moot.

https://www.scribd.com/document/100216491/8-15-10-Howard-Freeman-the-Two-United-States-and-the-Law

If anyone is interested, this should end the back and forth, allowing you to make up your own mind. This post will be repeated each time my stalker addresses me. The links will speak for themselves and you can pick who you think is most qualified to tell you the facts: an anonymous poster on a discussion board OR judges, lawyers, historians, legal scholars and those with experience. If you're interested, it's your choice who you do or do not believe.


----------



## RedLion

Denton said:


> again, topics and not people. @RedLion, you too.
> Let's discipline ourselves.


Oh ok. I will try to be a wee bit nicer, but the guy is lost.


----------



## The Tourist

RedLion said:


> Oh ok. I will try to be a wee bit nicer, but the guy is lost.


Here's where I can help you. For example, what makes a guided missile so dangerous? A projectile that misses does you no good, it's the gyroscope that guides the damage.

Ergo, go to "settings" and find 'ignore.' Type his name, then hit okay and save. Bullseye!


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> The 14th Amendment was never legally ratified:
> 
> The Fourteenth Amendment is Unconstitutional - Judge L.H. Perez
> 
> David Lawrence: There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!
> 
> http://www.14th-amendment.com/Misce..._Not_Ratified/14th_Amendment_Not_Ratified.pdf
> 
> https://amadon606.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/14th_amendment_illegal_never_ratified/
> 
> Should I take the word of an anonymous stalker OR the opinion of a judge? When legal theories are presented and pursued, you may very well prevail *IF *you have a contingent of dedicated people to right a wrong.
> 
> Without a proper understanding of this subject, the whole argument of legal versus so - called _"illegal_" aliens becomes moot.
> 
> https://www.scribd.com/document/100216491/8-15-10-Howard-Freeman-the-Two-United-States-and-the-Law
> 
> If anyone is interested, this should end the back and forth, allowing you to make up your own mind. This post will be repeated each time my stalker addresses me. The links will speak for themselves and you can pick who you think is most qualified to tell you the facts: an anonymous poster on a discussion board OR judges, lawyers, historians, legal scholars and those with experience. If you're interested, it's your choice who you do or do not believe.


So you can't refute what I said about the 16th, good. Now lets move to your claims of the 14th. LH Perez was a segregationist Judge in the Democratic Party and was never anything more than a District Judge, his word holds about as much water as a bucket with no bottom. Funny how you clam to never have voted for a Democrat in your life yet you fall back to ones opinion to promote your theory.

As to David Lawrence and the rest of your links, they are all based on the Walter J. Suthon, Jr theory from 1953. The following paragraph shoots down that theory.



> In response to the Reconstruction Act and its supplementary legislation, the South challenged them in the Supreme Court. The South had grounds for hoping that the Court would strike down the legislation, for it had faced up to Congress in the Milligan case and had recently overturned state and federal loyalty oaths; but the hope turned out to be ill-founded. Mississippi led off by seeking an injunction against President Johnson and the district military commander, restraining them from executing and enforcing the acts. The Court declined on the ground that it lacked the power. Then Georgia brought a suit against Secretary of War Edwin Stanton, General Ulysses S. Grant, and the commander of the Third Military District, seeking a similar injunction on the ground that Congress had no power to annihilate a state government and thereby deprive its citizens of legal and political rights. The Court declined, holding that for a question to be judicially determined, "the rights in danger &#8230; must be rights of persons or property, not merely political rights, which do not belong to the jurisdiction of a court." This language hinted broadly that if a suit were brought on an issue of property rights, the Court would hear it and rule on the constitutionality of the Reconstruction Acts. Such a case, Ex parte McCardle, was brought early in 1868, and the Court heard arguments in March, just before the impeachment trial of President Johnson got under way. In that highly charged atmosphere Congress passed, as a rider to a bill regarding appeals in customs and revenue cases, a measure removing the Court's jurisdiction in the McCardle case. That, for practical purposes, killed all prospects of a judicial overthrow of the Reconstruction Acts.


As to your last link, nothing more then Sovereign Citizen BS. Howard Freeman is/was nothing more than a tax protestor.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/10-huge-supreme-court-cases-about-the-14th-amendment

SCOTUS accepted the 14th as ratified.


----------



## RedLion

The Tourist said:


> Here's where I can help you. For example, what makes a guided missile so dangerous? A projectile that misses does you no good, it's the gyroscope that guides the damage.
> 
> Ergo, go to "settings" and find 'ignore.' Type his name, then hit okay and save. Bullseye!


Nah, but thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## The Tourist

RedLion said:


> Nah, but thanks for the suggestion.


When you break-in a handgun, do you shoot it with a cast bullet, or a Hornady Critical Defense round costing 1.35 every time you stroked the trigger?

In other words, why waste your words and all your witty rapport on a pop-can? Save it for the bear...


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> So you can't refute what I said about the 16th, good. Now lets move to your claims of the 14th. LH Perez was a segregationist Judge in the Democratic Party and was never anything more than a District Judge, his word holds about as much water as a bucket with no bottom. Funny how you clam to never have voted for a Democrat in your life yet you fall back to ones opinion to promote your theory.
> 
> As to David Lawrence and the rest of your links, they are all based on the Walter J. Suthon, Jr theory from 1953. The following paragraph shoots down that theory.
> 
> https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/10-huge-supreme-court-cases-about-the-14th-amendment
> 
> SCOTUS accepted the 14th as ratified.


The 14th Amendment was never legally ratified:

The Fourteenth Amendment is Unconstitutional - Judge L.H. Perez

David Lawrence: There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!

http://www.14th-amendment.com/Miscel...t_Ratified.pdf

https://amadon606.wordpress.com/2009...ever_ratified/

Should I take the word of an anonymous stalker OR the opinion of a judge? When legal theories are presented and pursued, you may very well prevail IF you have a contingent of dedicated people to right a wrong.

Without a proper understanding of this subject, the whole argument of legal versus so - called "illegal" aliens becomes moot.

https://www.scribd.com/document/1002...es-and-the-Law

If anyone is interested, this should end the back and forth, allowing you to make up your own mind. This post will be repeated each time my stalker addresses me. The links will speak for themselves and you can pick who you think is most qualified to tell you the facts: an anonymous poster on a discussion board OR judges, lawyers, historians, legal scholars and those with experience. If you're interested, it's your choice who you do or do not believe.


----------



## RedLion

Again the undeniable facts to this topic are that over 63% of non-citizens/illegals use welfare with illegals costing us over 155 billion per year in welfare and other expenses. Undeniable to all.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> Again the undeniable facts to this topic are that over 63% of non-citizens/illegals use welfare with illegals costing us over 155 billion per year in welfare and other expenses. Undeniable to all.


You did not open with that sentiment. Had you admitted at the first that *non-citizens* were part of the problem, this thread would have been about 200 posts shorter.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> You did not open with that sentiment. Had you admitted at the first that *non-citizens* were part of the problem, this thread would have been about 200 posts shorter.


No difference in regard to what it is really about to anyone here.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> No difference in regard to what it is really about to anyone here.


Therein lies the problem. Until they are ready to address all aspects of the issue, they are essentially peeing in the wind. The real solution has to address all the problems.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Therein lies the problem. Until they are ready to address all aspects of the issue, they are essentially peeing in the wind. The real solution has to address all the problems.


They aren't going to fix anything. They have no intention of fixing anything. They have a Big Plan. Destroy a nation.


----------



## Traxxas

What's going to keep economic refugees like we see now/what we have now from continuing to come, whether the immigration laws are "fixed" or not? At least a wall/fence will deter a good amount of them.


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## ekim

And a few bullets should do for the rest.............


----------



## Denton

ekim said:


> And a few bullets should do for the rest.............


Wrong answer. It's wrong to shoot unarmed people. This isn't East Germany.


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## Denton

Traxxas said:


> What's going to keep economic refugees like we see now/what we have now from continuing to come, whether the immigration laws are "fixed" or not? At least a wall/fence will deter a good amount of them.


Nothing that is going to happen, but this nation act like a sovereign nation and protect its border. All nations have the right to protect its' borders.


----------



## ekim

Denton said:


> Wrong answer. It's wrong to shoot unarmed people. This isn't East Germany.


And we don't know what weapons, illness or bio virus they may be caring either. It's not like they are innocent. They are entering a sovereign country illegally, many are know criminals and some we don't even know where they are from. And yes this country has shot unarmed people before even babies foreign and domestic. Some 
even call it an invasion. Prove any of it wrong and you might have a valid point.


----------



## Denton

ekim said:


> And we don't know what weapons, illness or bio virus they may be caring either. It's not like they are innocent. They are entering a sovereign country illegally, many are know criminals and some we don't even know where they are from. And yes this country has shot unarmed people before even babies foreign and domestic. Some
> even call it an invasion. Prove any of it wrong and you might have a valid point.


That they might be criminals or that they might be sick, not reason to use deadly force. That's all I have to say to make it a valid point not to gun down unarmed people.


----------



## ekim

Denton said:


> That they might be criminals or that they might be sick, not reason to use deadly force. That's all I have to say to make it a valid point not to gun down unarmed people.


Did you read the post about the leader of the caravan is a know terrorist, just wondered. But you are right lets wait till they kill, rape or steal from those that can least afford it, then pay more American money to chase down some one who already broke the law, read him his rights, pat for his legal defense and waste the courts time. Don' you just love the American way. Try sneaking any other country and see how they treat you, kid gloves I'm sure. We disagree, so be it.


----------



## Denton

ekim said:


> Did you read the post about the leader of the caravan is a know terrorist, just wondered. But you are right lets wait till they kill, rape or steal from those that can least afford it, then pay more American money to chase down some one who already broke the law, read him his rights, pat for his legal defense and waste the courts time. Don' you just love the American way. Try sneaking any other country and see how they treat you, kid gloves I'm sure. We disagree, so be it.


Yup. Read that. 
I'm one of those crazy bastards who still believes lethal force is reserved for those who are directing lethal force against others.

Not all "invaders" are bad, much less evil. Even those who are evilstill have a chance of salvation if still alive. Things were to be a military invasion, weapons and all, thigns would be different.
Are bad people jumping the border? Oh, yeah. Catch'em and figure it out. Deal with the bad guys. Send the others back home.
How do we pay for that? Simple. Stop sending money to other nations as if nation is our friend. Elect me tyrant and there'd be very few nations receiving money. Israel and Colombia might be the only ones.


----------



## stevekozak

Denton said:


> Wrong answer. It's wrong to shoot unarmed people. This isn't East Germany.


I disagree. Not having firearms or even knives does not make you harmless. By any force necessary.


----------



## stevekozak

Denton said:


> Yup. Read that.
> I'm one of those crazy bastards who still believes lethal force is reserved for those who are directing lethal force against others.
> 
> Not all "invaders" are bad, much less evil. Even those who are evilstill have a chance of salvation if still alive. Things were to be a military invasion, weapons and all, thigns would be different.
> Are bad people jumping the border? Oh, yeah. Catch'em and figure it out. Deal with the bad guys. Send the others back home.
> How do we pay for that? Simple. Stop sending money to other nations as if nation is our friend. Elect me tyrant and there'd be very few nations receiving money. Israel and Colombia might be the only ones.


Risk management. Dead people tend not to have the capacity to harm. Build the wall. Shoot anyone who comes over, under, or around it. Catapult the dead bodies back over the wall, with an attached note saying "quit littering".


----------



## Slippy

Denton said:


> ...
> Let's discipline ourselves.


Wish I had a nickel for every time I heard that...:vs_smile:


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> Therein lies the problem. Until they are ready to address all aspects of the issue, they are essentially peeing in the wind. The real solution has to address all the problems.


I agree with you, but we need to start taking steps to stop any and all aspects of illegals, legal over-stays and abuses of welfare by both.


----------



## ekim

RedLion said:


> I agree with you, but we need to start taking steps to stop any and all aspects of illegals, legal over-stays and abuses of welfare by both.


So very true. You can't address the issue/problem till you stop the growth of the problem or your just chasing it.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Wrong answer. It's wrong to shoot unarmed people. This isn't East Germany.


It's for the same reason you don't want a wall. We are not at war with those from south of the border like the Israelis. The wall is a solution looking for a problem to fix.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> I agree with you, but we need to start taking steps to stop any and all aspects of illegals, legal over-stays and abuses of welfare by both.


The questions you're afraid to ask are keeping you from implementing the appropriate solution. I've been presuming the wrong thing about the people who obsess over a wall. I used to think this was about addressing a problem. Instead, the problems are only a pretext for implementing a wall that serves more as a fashion statement for the nation than any deep concern over the country. My bad.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> The questions you're afraid to ask are keeping you from implementing the appropriate solution. I've been presuming the wrong thing about the people who obsess over a wall. I used to think this was about addressing a problem. Instead, the problems are only a pretext for implementing a wall that serves more as a fashion statement for the nation than any deep concern over the country. My bad.


Walls work and work great. Please do not go on a rant trying to say otherwise.


----------



## Traxxas

ekim said:


> So very true. You can't address the issue/problem till you stop the growth of the problem or your just chasing it.


This 100%.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> The questions you're afraid to ask are keeping you from implementing the appropriate solution. I've been presuming the wrong thing about the people who obsess over a wall. I used to think this was about addressing a problem. Instead, the problems are only a pretext for implementing a wall that serves more as a fashion statement for the nation than any deep concern over the country. My bad.


Whats the "appropriate solution" to keep economic refugees from illegally entering, no matter what? Grant them legal entry? Diminish the value of our labor? A living wage?

Walls/fences/barriers tend to work around the world.


----------



## Traxxas

Denton said:


> Nothing that is going to happen, but this nation act like a sovereign nation and protect its border. All nations have the right to protect its' borders.


I agree, we have a right to protect our borders, we have a right to deny entry to whomever we so choose, nobody has a right to enter into another country without that countries authorization, if they do enter into another country without authorization, it is usually an act of war. Now what we have are economic refugees and not soldiers illegally entering, it is an invasion just not a military invasion and we have the right to round them up and remove them no matter how long they may have been here.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> Walls work and work great. Please do not go on a rant trying to say otherwise.


No rant necessary; the Berlin Wall came down and I'm still thinking about the Trojan Horse and how the Walls of Jericho came down. Walls work good if you have an enemy, but they are disastrous if you cherish your Freedom and Liberty.


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> I agree, we have a right to protect our borders, we have a right to deny entry to whomever we so choose, nobody has a right to enter into another country without that countries authorization, if they do enter into another country without authorization, it is usually an act of war. Now what we have are economic refugees and not soldiers illegally entering, it is an invasion just not a military invasion and we have the right to round them up and remove them no matter how long they may have been here.


Straw man argument


----------



## The Resister

"_An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself_." Thomas Paine, founding father


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> No rant necessary; the Berlin Wall came down and I'm still thinking about the Trojan Horse and how the Walls of Jericho came down. Walls work good if you have an enemy, but they are disastrous if you cherish your Freedom and Liberty.


Give it up. Walls work great as evident by the evidence I have provided you, the 65 countries in including Hungary and Israel that have them and the U.S. Military's use of fortifications another testament to it working.
If you refuse to admit these simple and obvious facts you are forever proven a lefty not worth listening to at all about anything.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> No rant necessary; the Berlin Wall came down and I'm still thinking about the Trojan Horse and how the Walls of Jericho came down. Walls work good if you have an enemy, but they are disastrous if you cherish your Freedom and Liberty.


From what you said about Jericho, a wall doesn't matter if you have an enemy. *What "Freedoms and Liberties" do you lose, as a citizen of this country, from a wall along our southern border to keep illegal entrants out?*

Funny thing about the Berlin Wall, it worked great for its intended purpose.


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> Whats the "appropriate solution" to keep economic refugees from illegally entering, no matter what? Grant them legal entry? Diminish the value of our labor? A living wage?
> 
> Walls/fences/barriers tend to work around the world.


You want an answer that fits on a bumper sticker. You are not ready for the truth. Try a discussion board where ten paragraphs don't challenge the IQ of the vocal minority that have a hissy fit over an honest discussion.


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> Straw man argument


Funny thing is, I didn't present an argument, I simply stated what the laws allow us to do as a Sovereign Nation. :vs_lol:


----------



## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> You want an answer that fits on a bumper sticker. You are not ready for the truth. Try a discussion board where ten paragraphs don't challenge the IQ of the vocal minority that have a hissy fit over an honest discussion.


What I want is a simple discussion.

I've read your solutions, they fail to stop economic refugees from coming here.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> Give it up. Walls work great as evident by the evidence I have provided you, the 65 countries in including Hungary and Israel that have them and the U.S. Military's use of fortifications another testament to it working.
> If you refuse to admit these simple and obvious facts you are forever proven a lefty not worth listening to at all about anything.


First off, the name calling should cease and desist unless you're like the stalker. I got your lefty swinging.

This is the United States of America. We are not some third world cesspool nor communist empire. If you don't like that, then you are a communist - plain and simple. America was founded and built without militarized borders. Other countries have built walls as a bulwark against enemies and in order to *control people*.

BEFORE your nutty wall was taken up by Trump, it was endorsed by the liberals and started by the Ku Klux Klan and National Socialists. *EVERY *example you've referred to has been in a communist country and / or some place fighting an enemy. Whether you like it or not and whether I like it or not, the fact is, foreigners are here because we are a free market economy. We can, without a militarized border, regulate the traffic, but you cannot stop it - unless your dream is being another North Korea. Show us you have some semblance of decency and leave the name calling in that empty space between your ears.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> It's for the same reason you don't want a wall. We are not at war with those from south of the border like the Israelis. The wall is a solution looking for a problem to fix.


I don't want unarmed people shot because I am not into murder. I want secure borders, however it is secured, for obvious reasons.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> "_An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself_." Thomas Paine, founding father


What does that quote have to do with the discussion? Are you asserting that a secure border punishes those who want to enter the country?


----------



## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> What I want is a simple discussion.
> 
> I've read your solutions, they fail to stop economic refugees from coming here.


No sir, had you wanted a discussion you would not have engaged in the bullshit you did for the last few years making it necessary to offer *$2000 *to the first person that can introduce us and give you the opportunity to talk that smack to my face. I have nothing to say to you. You, by threatening my family, violating my privacy, endangering my life, and lying about me destroyed any hope of a civil conversation. Your tactics for getting my attention were immoral, indefensible, ridiculous, idiotic, inexcusable, and above all cowardly. Now, if you want something from me, you can do so face to face.

You've even been banned here once before. So, I choose not to engage in the kinds of conversation you want. Look, you got misinformed and uninformed people that buy into your B.S. here, so leave it at that and leave me alone. You and I have nothing that the people on this board want to read.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> First off, the name calling should cease and desist unless you're like the stalker. I got your lefty swinging.
> 
> This is the United States of America. We are not some third world cesspool nor communist empire. If you don't like that, then you are a communist - plain and simple. America was founded and built without militarized borders. Other countries have built walls as a bulwark against enemies and in order to *control people*.
> 
> BEFORE your nutty wall was taken up by Trump, it was endorsed by the liberals and started by the Ku Klux Klan and National Socialists. *EVERY *example you've referred to has been in a communist country and / or some place fighting an enemy. Whether you like it or not and whether I like it or not, the fact is, foreigners are here because we are a free market economy. We can, without a militarized border, regulate the traffic, but you cannot stop it - unless your dream is being another North Korea. Show us you have some semblance of decency and leave the name calling in that empty space between your ears.


I am done with you. You are not capable of recognizing simple fact. You are a lost cause.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> What does that quote have to do with the discussion? Are you asserting that a secure border punishes those who want to enter the country?


Denton, you are not that stupid. How many have advocated for placing land mines, shooting people that cross the border, etc.? What you have are people wanting to punish foreigners for engaging in what is otherwise legal pursuits simply because they violated a civil misdemeanor law to get here. If the American people were not *willingly* engaging in trade with the foreigners, they would have no incentive to come here.

Furthermore if we required all entitlements (sic) and welfare to be made available to citizens only, foreigners that are here would have no incentive to be here *IF* welfare were the issue.


----------



## The Resister

RedLion said:


> I am done with you. You are not capable of recognizing simple fact. You are a lost cause.


And you, having* NO* ability to have a discussion (bumper sticker solutions are not discussion), then YOU are the lost cause.


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> Denton, you are not that stupid. How many have advocated for placing land mines, shooting people that cross the border, etc.? What you have are people wanting to punish foreigners for engaging in what is otherwise legal pursuits simply because they violated a civil misdemeanor law to get here. If the American people were not *willingly* engaging in trade with the foreigners, they would have no incentive to come here.
> 
> Furthermore if we required all entitlements (sic) and welfare to be made available to citizens only, foreigners that are here would have no incentive to be here *IF* welfare were the issue.


There you go again with the backdoor insults. 
If you are referring to shooting people or blowing them up, make that clear. I think I am clear about being against that. 
Pulling a quote out of the air and posting it here doesn't clearly make a point.

Barriers do not punish anyone. 
You do know social security numbers are stolen and illegals are using other people's benefits. All the laws in the world don't stop people from breaking all the laws in the world.


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## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> First off, the name calling should cease and desist unless you're like the stalker. I got your lefty swinging.
> 
> This is the United States of America. We are not some third world cesspool nor communist empire. If you don't like that, then you are a communist - plain and simple. America was founded and built without militarized borders. Other countries have built walls as a bulwark against enemies and in order to *control people*.
> 
> BEFORE your nutty wall was taken up by Trump, it was endorsed by the liberals and started by the Ku Klux Klan and National Socialists. *EVERY *example you've referred to has been in a communist country and / or some place fighting an enemy. Whether you like it or not and whether I like it or not, the fact is, foreigners are here because we are a free market economy. We can, without a militarized border, regulate the traffic, but you cannot stop it - unless your dream is being another North Korea. Show us you have some semblance of decency and leave the name calling in that empty space between your ears.


Maybe you could explain why we had military outposts along our borders during westward expansion. Or why many outposts were in use long after our southern border was defined. Why do we still have military posts along our borders?

I wonder, was Cesar Chavez a KKK member or a National Socialist or a Liberal? He guarded the border in the late '60's early '70's from economic refugees that were coming in and working for less.

We are not a "free market economy". We are a Capitalist Economy.


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## Traxxas

The Resister said:


> No sir, had you wanted a discussion you would not have engaged in the bullshit you did for the last few years making it necessary to offer *$2000 *to the first person that can introduce us and give you the opportunity to talk that smack to my face. I have nothing to say to you. You, by threatening my family, violating my privacy, endangering my life, and lying about me destroyed any hope of a civil conversation. Your tactics for getting my attention were immoral, indefensible, ridiculous, idiotic, inexcusable, and above all cowardly. Now, if you want something from me, you can do so face to face.
> 
> You've even been banned here once before. So, I choose not to engage in the kinds of conversation you want. Look, you got misinformed and uninformed people that buy into your B.S. here, so leave it at that and leave me alone. You and I have nothing that the people on this board want to read.


I see, so when you are challenged on your "facts" (your facts being factually incorrect) and questioned on your reasoning (failing to address the actual point), you are incapable of answering with reason and intellect.


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> I don't want unarmed people shot because I am not into murder. I want secure borders, however it is secured, for obvious reasons.


It is quite secure. The unsecured part of the border is the fault of the very people demanding a wall around the United States.


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## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> I see, so when you are challenged on your "facts" and questioned on your reasoning, you are incapable of answering with reason and intellect.


Your mental midgetry does not impress me. I'm capable of answering anybody... just that I will answer you face to face.


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## The Resister

Traxxas said:


> Maybe you could explain why we had military outposts along our borders during westward expansion. Or why many outposts were in use long after our southern border was defined. Why do we still have military posts along our borders?
> 
> I wonder, was Cesar Chavez a KKK member or a National Socialist or a Liberal? He guarded the border in the late '60's early '70's from economic refugees that were coming in and working for less.
> 
> We are not a "free market economy". We are a Capitalist Economy.


Did you not understand my post to you? You just want to argue. I'm here for discussion - just not with you. You're wrong over 90 percent of the time.


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> It is quite secure. The unsecured part of the border is the fault of the very people demanding a wall around the United States.


It's quite secure except for the unsecured part and that is the fault of those who want to secure it. Makes total sense to me.


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> Your mental midgetry does not impress me. I'm capable of answering anybody... just that I will answer you face to face.


OK. You've been warned. I can only assume you aren't heeding the warning because you haven't had time to think about it.


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## hawgrider

*Bye bye*

:vs_clap:

:laughhard:


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## A Watchman

hawgrider said:


> *Bye bye*
> 
> :vs_clap:
> 
> :laughhard:


From the Puppet Masters &#8230;.


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## Prepared One

I am surprised it went this long.


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## The Tourist

Yikes, I feed the dog and take a nap and the whole world spins off it axis. Can someone "beep" me next time?


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## Denton

Just a little time in the cooler. 
He'll get to read the graffiti left by Slippy. 


Prepared One said:


> I am surprised it went this long.


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## Prepared One

Denton said:


> Just a little time in the cooler.
> He'll get to read the graffiti left by Slippy.


Hah! Now there's some pearls of wisdom I bet. @Slippy was probably the scribe that wrote the phrase above the urinal in the men's room in the strip club: "What are you looking up here for? The joke is in your hand." :vs_laugh:

You know, Resister seems a smart guy, he just keeps chasing rabbits down the wrong hole. That, and he chooses his battles.........unwisely. Reminds me of a dog that keeps chasing his tail after you swatted him telling him to stop.


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## StratMaster




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## Paul Tretiakoff

It is going to get Worse if America keeps going down the wrong path. Do illegals get welfare in Mexico ?
How stupid are we to allow this to continue.


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## ekim

Paul Tretiakoff said:


> It is going to get Worse if America keeps going down the wrong path. Do illegals get welfare in Mexico ?
> * How stupid are we to allow this to continue.*


Ask your congress person why it still goes on. Make sure you tell him you vote and don't like what congress is doing.


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## Denton

ekim said:


> Ask your congress person why it still goes on. Make sure you tell him you vote and don't like what congress is doing.


Yeah, you're going to enjoy the show Sasquatch should be posting in a few minutes.


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