# need your advice on .22s



## Prepp(g)er

first of all, as i'm new to this forum, feel free to relocate this thread if i put it in the wrong section.

first of all, i'm fairly new to shooting in general. apart from owning an bb for some time, and shooting it quite well on some occasions, i just recently started my training at my local gun club.

where i live, you have to train at first with a bb for a year, an after that for a year with a .22. so after 2 years of training and geting some licenses, you can own up to two handguns plus up to 3 rifles...with some restrictions like no full-auto, no pump-action etc.
so please keep that in mind.i cannot just go out and buy like 15 different guns as i please, even though i might wish to do so.

now to my question.

i'm thinking of buying a .22 soon. i think having at least a .22 if i would need it is better than a pellet gun right?

but i really don't know what to get. is a .22 pistol like the colt 1911 .22 even suitable for self-defense and taking down game in a shtf situation? or is a rifle better in regard to accuracy and take down power...?

and what model should i get...

you see i'm clueless and have to make a difficult decision which will determine what i buy/ can buy in the future

i've seen from the posts i read that you guys (and girls) know your stuff, so please help a rookie out here. i very much appreciate it


----------



## retired guard

You mention legal restrictions on rifle actions, do they apply to .22 lr as well?


----------



## Prepp(g)er

retired guard said:


> You mention legal restrictions on rifle actions, do they apply to .22 lr as well?


the two i mentioned do. no pump-action, only semi-auto..and oh yeah only 10 rounds mags allowed


----------



## dwight55

A rifle will by and large be more useful in a SHTF situation. I say that because it has been my experience that people CAN hit with a rifle, . . . and will only land bullets in the general area with a pistol.

For SHTF protection, . . . it should also be better suited.

For personal protection, . . . a ten round Beretta .22 semi-auto pistol is hard to beat. No recoil, . . . excellent trigger, . . . easy and quick reloading (both the mag and the gun), easy to clean, and not super expensive. I have carried my son's Beretta .22 as my concealed carry pistol, . . . and have never felt undergunned, . . . 

If you go after the rifle, a Ruger 10-22 is hard to beat. Marlin also makes a fine tube fed .22 that usually is a few dollars cheaper than the Ruger, and may be just a tad more accurate.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## retired guard

Best all round .22lr would be Ruger 10/22 semi auto 10 round magazine larger capacity magazines available here but just trouble when the law says no. This rifle is simple to operate and maintain is reliable as all get out, fairly light weight and handy. Check your local laws it comes in a take down model as well as the standard take down allows the rifle to be with a simple twist to be divided into two parts for storage and transport and instantly reassembled for use. Rifle will give you better accuracy and power than a pistol of the same caliber however some pistols can have their versatility increased by the fact that they have cylinders that accept both .22lr and .22magnum one cylinder for each type of ammo.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Prepp(g)er, what country do you live in?
This could have a part in what we could recommend. If you live in Europe, the cost of an American rifle may be more than a CZ or something similar.
I believe that you would be best served buying a 22 rifle before buying a 22 handgun. Rifles are easier to shoot accurately, for one thing.
You mentioned that you could not own a pump action. How about a bolt action?


----------



## paraquack

Welcome to the group from Arizona. And I though ILL annoyed was bad!


----------



## Notsoyoung

Given a choice of having a .22 pistol or a .22 rifle for a SHTF situation, I would always go with the rifle, especially if you may also have to depend on it for hunting in addition to self defense. The rifle is more accurate, has a longer range, and you get a higher velocity out of a rifle. If you are competent with the rifle you can routinely take small game at 100 yards with it, which could be challenging if using a .22 pistol.


----------



## Prepp(g)er

rice paddy daddy said:


> Prepp(g)er, what country do you live in?
> This could have a part in what we could recommend. If you live in Europe, the cost of an American rifle may be more than a CZ or something similar.
> I believe that you would be best served buying a 22 rifle before buying a 22 handgun. Rifles are easier to shoot accurately, for one thing.
> You mentioned that you could not own a pump action. How about a bolt action?


I live in germany. thats why there's all those regulations. mostly guns are considered for military and law enforcement use only. however you can get a gun for hunting and sport purposes with a LOT of sticks thrown in your way. f.e. waiting and training time, costs of licenses, gun safe requirements, police checkups in intervals..whatever you think of, they will do it.period. a yeah and those guns cost a s..tload of money...like i've read in posts on here before, buying a gun for 200 dollars...forget it, i couldn't even buy a pellet gun for that price..

bolt actions?those with the reloading lever on the side like the carbines and stuff? like the long range sniper rifles? sry 'bout that, the translation of technical guns terms is rather new to me:lol: yeah we can have those. we can even have some modified ar 15s now (mags smaller, hard trigger pull etc.), don't know, they are considered evil or something

and about the cz...yeah saw some at my LGS, but they were like 1200-1500 dollars. argh


----------



## Prepp(g)er

thx for all your advice so far.. it seems like the common thing here is that the accuracy of rifles is far better. seems important to me. what good will a couple of more rounds do, when i can't hit anything


----------



## LunaticFringeInc

I feel for you in your situation Bro'. Its a tough spot to be in compared to us Americans as bad as we think we have it these days.

A rifle would by far be the best to deal with as far as learning curve skill wise. I am assuming that the ban on semi autos applies to your situation, if it doesn't then a Ruger 10/22 would probably be the "cats meow" given your needs. If not I would consider a bolt action 22 rim fire. A couple that I really like are the Ruger American and the Savage Mk II.

If your only facing the need of personal protection and bagging small game then you might want to seriously look at a handgun. The Ruger Mk III OR 22/45 might be a good option here. Not only can you collect small game with it out to 25 yards or so with some practice but its also concealable too, which means in a pinch it could serve as personal protection although the 22 rim fire is pretty weak option for that kind of work. I myself personally have a Ruger Single Six in 22 long rifle that comes with a 22 WRM (much more potent and they actually make ammo specifically designed to be used for self defense in short barrels to boot!). Being a single action hand gun though it has to be manually cocked before you can pull the trigger to shoot it for each shot. This makes it less than optimal for self defense purposes. But its a rock solid gun to be sure and probably the most enjoyable gun to shoot that I own!


----------



## sparkyprep

Nothing wrong with great little Marlin .22 tube feed. I love that gun.


----------



## sparkyprep

Not bad for 40 years old. Shoots flat.


----------



## ordnance21xx

Something bolt action, well I don't know about a .22 in bolt action! sorry

MOLON LABE


----------



## Just Sayin'

If you're old enough, you could always join the German Army. Worked with some of your GSG-9 in the mid '80s and they had some really cool guns to play with. Plus, you'd get all the training and they'd pay you too!

Long guns are always going to be more accurate than pistols when using iron sights due to the longer sight radius, and will be faster due to the longer barrel giving the powder time to burn completely. Plus you're holding on to a lot more of the gun and have a much steadier platform.


----------



## vandelescrow

Just Sayin' said:


> If you're old enough, you could always join the German Army. Worked with some of your GSG-9 in the mid '80s and they had some really cool guns to play with. Plus, you'd get all the training and they'd pay you too!


Military service is a requirement in Germany, you can get around it with civil service but I understand it takes longer to fill your requirement.

OP, Welcome to the forums. Germany is my home away from home. I spent 6 years there while I was in the service and would go back in a heart beat if given the chance.

From what I understand, you are allowed air rifles and Germany has perfected them to be even more powerful then a .22. Have you thought about that as an option? I do not know but I'd think the restrictions would be more lenient on those. One guy at my rifle range has a few and talking to him, the restrictions on them in Canada does not make any sense but maybe Germany is different and perhaps cost wise may be a route to go.

anyway, Willkommen


----------



## SDF880

I have and would recommend the following. Rifle Ruger 10/22 I have the stainless takedown model and it works and shoots well. Marlin 60 probably my favorite.
Henry AR-7 survival rifle for my backpack. Pistol I have the Ruger SR-22 and 500 rounds through it with no problems. Revolver I have a 10 shot S&W model 617
with a 6 inch barrel. I love this revolver and it is very accurate. I also have a model 317 that I carry in the backpack. A really cool
pistol I have but don't really recommend is a Walther TPH. This Walther is like a mini PPK in .22LR but mine jams way way too much to be of any real use to me
but I don't give up and someday I'll figure it out. Tiny little gun but it is pretty cool. Oh ya forgot I also have a tiny North American 22 5 shot revolver. It shoots and if you have
nothing else it will work. 

Many other .22 options out there see what some of the other come back with.


----------



## Just Sayin'

What options in weapons do you know you have? Sounds like they are pretty restrictive on what you even have as an option.


----------



## PalmettoTree

Get this one.
Ruger® 10/22 Takedown® Autoloading Rifle Models


----------



## XMTG

If your country allows it I would consider getting you one of the Smith and Wesson M&P .22 rifles. They look and handle just like a real AR-15. Great to train yourself to run a real 5.56 AR.


----------



## Infidel

I think in this situation if it's available the Ruger 10/22 is about your best option. They are easy to maintain and fairly accurate right out of the box plus there are so many aftermarket parts for them that changing anything and everything about the rifle is a breeze. You build the rifle to suit your needs, if you buy the rifle and find the length of pull is too short, no problem there's so many stock options out there you just pick the one you like best.

-Infidel


----------



## retired guard

sparkyprep said:


> Not bad for 40 years old. Shoots flat.
> View attachment 4437


I bought my 10/22 in 1979 it was used when I got it and it has a lot more use now.


----------



## Prepp(g)er

@ just sayin & vandelescrow
yeah the german army...i had my examination there when i was 18 to determine if i was fit for duty. back then you had to spend a year there or like 18 month working in a retirement home or similar if you were anti military. however due to an injury i got from snowboarding, just wasn't fit. started college instead.
plus, just being in the military doesn't do you any good in regard to having your own private firearms..you have to take the same steps as everyone else.

air rifles...hmm.another matter entirely. without a license and training, being a member of a gun club etc. you can buy one as strong as 7,5 joules. you can shoot through a can with this, or maybe try to bag a small bird, but for self defense i would consider throwing stones instead. 

up to 16 joules for professional sporting air rifles. stronger, but enough for self defense, i just don't think so. but as far as the price goes...omg they're like 3k $, for a single-shot high precision one.


----------



## Prepp(g)er

so far what i was able to pick up: get a rifle for precision and knockdown-power. pistols might be better for self-defense, but i may not even hit something if i needed to, or just within close ranges.

brands suggested were ruger and marlin for the rifles. are selfloading semi-autos in 22 reliable? do they cycle properly? saw some .22 bullets and damn they're small...

as for an ar in.22..they are really really expensive here. and i don't know if i could manage that much gun at the moment. i better wait with an ar till i can afford one in .223 and manage to handle it properly (and have all the licenses together to get one)

thank you so much for all your answers so far. helps alot.


----------



## jimb1972

Prepp(g)er said:


> so far what i was able to pick up: get a rifle for precision and knockdown-power. pistols might be better for self-defense, but i may not even hit something if i needed to, or just within close ranges.
> 
> brands suggested were ruger and marlin for the rifles. are selfloading semi-autos in 22 reliable? do they cycle properly? saw some .22 bullets and damn they're small...
> 
> as for an ar in.22..they are really really expensive here. and i don't know if i could manage that much gun at the moment. i better wait with an ar till i can afford one in .223 and manage to handle it properly (and have all the licenses together to get one)
> 
> thank you so much for all your answers so far. helps alot.


Marlin and Ruger .22's are very reliable, I prefer the Marlin but then I don't accessorize my rifles much


----------



## vandelescrow

Prepp(g)er said:


> up to 16 joules for professional sporting air rifles. stronger, but enough for self defense, i just don't think so. but as far as the price goes...omg they're like 3k $, for a single-shot high precision one.


ouch, well it was a thought


----------



## Infidel

Prepp(g)er said:


> so far what i was able to pick up: get a rifle for precision and knockdown-power. pistols might be better for self-defense, but i may not even hit something if i needed to, or just within close ranges.
> 
> brands suggested were ruger and marlin for the rifles. are selfloading semi-autos in 22 reliable? do they cycle properly? saw some .22 bullets and damn they're small...
> 
> as for an ar in.22..they are really really expensive here. and i don't know if i could manage that much gun at the moment. i better wait with an ar till i can afford one in .223 and manage to handle it properly (and have all the licenses together to get one)
> 
> thank you so much for all your answers so far. helps alot.


A rifle will definitely be more accurate than a handgun due to the longer sight radius (the distance between front and rear sights). Knockdown power difference is negligible between a rifle and handgun when both are chambered in .22lr. I would never recommend a .22 for a defensive weapon but if it's all you've got it's better than nothing. A .22lr is a great starting point, it's cheap to shoot (when ammo is readily available) and has no recoil so it's not intimidating to new shooters.

Auto-loading .22lr's will be as reliable as the ammunition you feed it, I've had great luck with Federal bulk ammo but Remington bulk ammo had been hit or miss in my guns. Usually issues come down to failures to fire. I have not had many feeding issues in my guns at all and those I have had have been from dirty guns.

-Infidel


----------



## PaulS

The Ruger American 22LR is one of the least expensive 22 rim-fire rifle that will shoot well on the market today. We have two and right out of the box - brand new - they were less than exciting but after the first 50 rounds (cleaning between trips) it settled down to one inch groups at 50 yards with run-of-the-mill Remington ammunition. (not well known for accuracy) I have some personal experience with this one as it was one of two rifle purchased for my granddaughter and son. They are now fitted with 3-9 x 40 scopes and still wearing in (the groups keep tightening up).


----------



## Prepp(g)er

i did a little research on prices an availability here. well i think i'm gonna go with the ruger 10/22. its about 700 $ for the standard model. the marlins are at least 500 $ more expensive. however the suggested takedown model i can't by because it is too easy to take apart. our gov seems to be afraid of crazy.22 cal snipers carrying around rifles in their backpacks.:lol: getting your hands on .22 ammo is no problem here. talked to a salesman at my LGS today. he said with the applicable ammo license (yeah you gotta have one of those too) I could buy as much as i wanted or better as much as i could carry out of the store.... the more you buy the cheaper it becomes. if you buy 500 rounds of cci standard f.e. a box of 50 rounds costs approximately 5 $. so ammo should be affordable. 

thx for all your suggestions.

btw. as i was reading some posts, it seems to me like you guys in the states have a problem getting your hands on .22 ammo. a shortage or something...looks like it was all shipped here


----------



## vandelescrow

Prepp(g)er said:


> i did a little research on prices an availability here. well i think i'm gonna go with the ruger 10/22. its about 700 $ for the standard model. the marlins are at least 500 $ more expensive. however the suggested takedown model i can't by because it is too easy to take apart. our gov seems to be afraid of crazy.22 cal snipers carrying around rifles in their backpacks.:lol: getting your hands on .22 ammo is no problem here. talked to a salesman at my LGS today. he said with the applicable ammo license (yeah you gotta have one of those too) I could buy as much as i wanted or better as much as i could carry out of the store.... the more you buy the cheaper it becomes. if you buy 500 rounds of cci standard f.e. a box of 50 rounds costs approximately 5 $. so ammo should be affordable.
> 
> thx for all your suggestions.
> 
> btw. as i was reading some posts, it seems to me like you guys in the states have a problem getting your hands on .22 ammo. a shortage or something...looks like it was all shipped here


I have not looked in a while since last time I found some I stocked up. $5 for 50 rounds of CCI is a little high but not unreasonable. If I remember right when it was plentiful a box of 100 was going for $8.

You said CCI Standard. If you can find it get the CCI minimag. It's a hotter round and usually the same price. Any modern gun can fire it but if you get an antique, I'd be a bit Leary.

Only problem with .22 is it can not be reloaded, but I have read where some people turn the empty cases into .223 projectiles.


----------



## Prepp(g)er

well there's a slight difference in price. i just post the new prices from my lgs here so you can see...
CCI

1 Euro =
1,3706 US-Dollar

.22lfB., CCI Mini Mag

Pro Packung = 100 Patronen.
Kaliber:.22 lfb.
Packung	Preis pro Packung	Ersparnis
1 € 12,00	-
10 € 10,10	- 16 %
50 € 8,70	- 28 %
100 € 8,20	- 32 %

Munition CCI-Standard .22 LfB

Kaliber:.22 lfb. pro Packung 50 Stück)
Packung	Preis pro Packung	Ersparnis
1 € 3,90	-
20 € 3,70	- 5 %
100 € 3,03	- 22 %
200 € 2,72	- 30 %


----------



## wesley762

After reading this you make California sould like childs play trying to purchase a gun, good luck to you and hope you can finally get what you want.

I don't think it's ever taken me more than 20 minutes in and out of the store to purchase a gun. Really do feel for you.


----------



## Infidel

vandelescrow said:


> I have not looked in a while since last time I found some I stocked up. $5 for 50 rounds of CCI is a little high but not unreasonable. If I remember right when it was plentiful a box of 100 was going for $8.
> 
> You said CCI Standard. If you can find it get the CCI minimag. It's a hotter round and usually the same price. Any modern gun can fire it but if you get an antique, I'd be a bit Leary.
> 
> Only problem with .22 is it can not be reloaded, but I have read where some people turn the empty cases into .223 projectiles.


You are partially correct, the spent casings can be used as bullet jackets. This is how RCBS started as a company, RCBS actually stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swage. Fred Huntington developed a system for turning .22lr cases into bullet jackets for .22 cal centerfires. I have heard of others who have done similar things with handgun brass making bullet jackets for larger caliber centerfires (I think one guy was using .40 S&W brass and making bullets for his .444 Marlin although I don't remember the exact details. Pretty ingenious really.

-Infidel


----------



## dsdmmat

Having been stationed in Germany for 9 years of my life, I can feel your pain. Although for me getting weapons wasn't the issue, getting the reloading licence was a pain though. I would recommend once you get settled into your rifle start looking at getting your powder license. That way you can at least have options to shoot more for the same or less money when you get into center fire calibers. 

The 10/22 is a great rifle, The Ruger American Rimfire (bolt action) is aslo a great rifle, they share a common magazine. Good luck and happy shooting.


----------



## alterego

In an earlier post you asked, "do they cycle properly" that is the great thing about a ruger 10-22. You can spray them with gun oil and cycle 500 rounds through them in an afternoon goofing around. The only typical cause of a jam is a failed shell. I have two 10-22 I bought the first 22 years ago. It has been beat small game hunting. It has been very dirty. I have fired thousands of rounds through it. And I mean thousands. And it always works and is accurate for squirrel at up to 100 yards once you understand the 9 inches of drop at that distance. Fantastic rifle. I also have the marlin model 60 just because. I will grab the ruger first. Hands down.


----------



## Prepp(g)er

i finally decided on a ruger 10/22 tactical. will take some month before my lgs has one for me, but as you might already know, i'll need that time to get my license anyway. will post some pics when i got it.

thank you all so much for helping me. the journey to being an armed european prepper has just started...can't wait!


----------



## sparkyprep

Thanks for the follow up. Hope you love it.


----------



## vandelescrow

When I got my 10/22 there were 3 things I changed. after the description I'll include a link just so you can see what I'm talking about, do your own search for the cheapest manufacturer / seller, this is just to show you.

Extended magazine release - makes it easier to swap mags
Power Custom Competition Extended Mag Release Ruger 10/22 Aluminum

Automatic bolt release - makes it much easier to put the gun back in service after changing mags
Power Custom Extended Automatic Bolt Release Ruger 10/22 Black

recoil buffer - This replaces the rear take down pin in the receiver, I got it to reduce wear and tear, the bolt no longer hits metal every time you fire.
Buffer Technologies Recoil Buffer Ruger 10/22 10/22 Mag

The gun will work fine as is from the factory, these things just help.


----------



## jro1

Prepp(g)er said:


> first of all, as i'm new to this forum, feel free to relocate this thread if i put it in the wrong section.
> 
> first of all, i'm fairly new to shooting in general. apart from owning an bb for some time, and shooting it quite well on some occasions, i just recently started my training at my local gun club.
> 
> where i live, you have to train at first with a bb for a year, an after that for a year with a .22. so after 2 years of training and geting some licenses, you can own up to two handguns plus up to 3 rifles...with some restrictions like no full-auto, no pump-action etc.
> so please keep that in mind.i cannot just go out and buy like 15 different guns as i please, even though i might wish to do so.
> 
> now to my question.
> 
> i'm thinking of buying a .22 soon. i think having at least a .22 if i would need it is better than a pellet gun right?
> 
> but i really don't know what to get. is a .22 pistol like the colt 1911 .22 even suitable for self-defense and taking down game in a shtf situation? or is a rifle better in regard to accuracy and take down power...?
> 
> and what model should i get...
> 
> you see i'm clueless and have to make a difficult decision which will determine what i buy/ can buy in the future
> 
> i've seen from the posts i read that you guys (and girls) know your stuff, so please help a rookie out here. i very much appreciate it


If it's a pistol in 1911, get the GSG 1911, I have it in Tan and it's an excellent pistol to get you started, and plinking with .22 is cheap, I also have a Ruger 10/22, Remington 597, Anschutz bolt action with the original Scope! all good .22's, the Remington is alright, not as consistent as my Ruger 10/22. And the Anschutz is my SHTF .22 bolt action!


----------



## Prepp(g)er

yeah i'm loving it already, though i haven't even laid hands on it ;-) 
@ sparky: i'll make sure to post some pics
@ vandel: and i'm gonna look into some modifying parts as well. however they have to be put in by a gunsmith at my lgs. modifying a gun can only be done by one who will then get the approval of the authorities. so i'm gonna try to get a complete package with everything included
@jro1: anschütz are high precision sporting rifles. a couple of my gun club budds have some of those. they're great. but rapid fire is not one of their strengths. and they are more than 2500$ here. thats more than my budget will allow for a .22


----------



## jro1

Prepp(g)er said:


> yeah i'm loving it already, though i haven't even laid hands on it ;-)
> @ sparky: i'll make sure to post some pics
> @ vandel: and i'm gonna look into some modifying parts as well. however they have to be put in by a gunsmith at my lgs. modifying a gun can only be done by one who will then get the approval of the authorities. so i'm gonna try to get a complete package with everything included
> @jro1: anschütz are high precision sporting rifles. a couple of my gun club budds have some of those. they're great. but rapid fire is not one of their strengths. and they are more than 2500$ here. thats more than my budget will allow for a .22


This anschütz is old school! paid $250 for it, it does shoot well, it's ugly as sin but it's a fine .22!


----------



## Prepp(g)er

then you were quite lucky. as i see it, having read a lot of posts, gun prices in the states are much lower


----------



## Montana Rancher

Too bad you live in a socialist government, here is what is happening in one of the most liberal state in our country

REBELLION: Gun Owners Continue to Defy Gun "Registration" Law

If you can't register guns on the east coast, you can't register them anywhere.

Just saying


----------



## Moonshinedave

Like others have already mentioned, for accuracy and knock-down power, rifle hands down. Of course, if it's something you want to carry without the world knowing you have it, well then pistol it should be.


----------



## Prepp(g)er

ok guys..looks like i will get that green light for the 10/22.have got the clearance from the shooting sport association i needed...found out the date for holding my first own rifle in hands...december 2014...damn...but i need that 1 year waiting period.lol 

but as i will have the clearance to buy .22 guns in december i am now thinking about buying a bolt action one as well...have looked at the ruger american rimfire and the 77/ 22 today..both great looking guns...and i will not have any problems arguing with the gun association about those being "proper sporting rifles" i think...

any thoughts?


----------



## PalmettoTree

Why so long? What if some one in the US wanted to give you a gun? Is there a procedure for that?

Buy the way what is the best way to smuggle a gun into Europe. Become a Muslim? They sure seem to have plenty.

What about Mohsin Nagants. You should be able to get them easy as well as AK's.


----------



## GTGallop

I like the 10-22. It is a solid platform and there are a TON of aftermarket products to allow you to customize it any way you see fit. It is on my "must own" bucket list one day.

But my recommendation to you would be the Marlin 60.
I feel they are a little more accurate right out of the box and have a few features built in (slide locks back) that the 10-22 is missing. With a tubular magazine you never have the issue with them banning anything with a detachable box on it. Capacity says 14, so I'm not sure if that is an issue or is if Marlin has figured a way to get around that. I'm sure they have.


----------



## PaulS

The Ruger American is an accurate and dependable rifle. You won't need a "spare parts" kit for it other than magazines. It uses the same magazine as the 10-22 so you have access to larger (25 round) magazines if you want (I see no need). It has an adjustable trigger and is perfect for a scope. The iron sights are OK for out to 25 yards but a scope is so much nicer - especially when you get beyond 50 yards.


----------



## bushrat

Not familiar with the availability of different types of firearms in Germany, but as far as a beginner, I would strongly agree with you purchasing a rifle (bolt or semi auto) first. They are easier to learn to shoot for most newbies. And typically can be shot more accurately so your confidence level will increase rapidly. Based on your OP I believe the .22LR will meet your needs initially, and later you can move when you become more proficient or decide you want to take big game and have more money to spend.


----------



## Prepp(g)er

PalmettoTree said:


> Why so long? What if some one in the US wanted to give you a gun? Is there a procedure for that?
> 
> Buy the way what is the best way to smuggle a gun into Europe. Become a Muslim? They sure seem to have plenty.
> 
> What about Mohsin Nagants. You should be able to get them easy as well as AK's.


no way i could avoid any of the existing laws here by being presented with a "present" like that...the law states you have to actively train for one year before being allowed to buy a .22 firearm..then one more year for bigger calibers..not more than 2 guns per 6 month..and of course all the licenses etc...i can legally buy a gun from the US if a certified arms dealer in the US sells it to another arms dealership here, through which i could get it...registered of course...

about smuggling i know nothing aaaaand religion changes nothing as well lol

i can buy a mosin.np. after two years that is as mentioned above..aks not even if hell freezes over...the are "weapons of war"..not kidding..legal term...assualt rifles are banned.period..if it looks like a rifle the military would use...too bad..some ar 15 are ok..but it is a grey area..every single gun has to be approved by the authorities...

man it is crazy here..

have been thinking about the 17hmr ruger american rimfire...but it is a no go for me...the velocity is too high...i am only allowed 22...arghh i hate the laws here


----------



## Prepp(g)er

GTGallop said:


> I like the 10-22. It is a solid platform and there are a TON of aftermarket products to allow you to customize it any way you see fit. It is on my "must own" bucket list one day.
> 
> But my recommendation to you would be the Marlin 60.
> I feel they are a little more accurate right out of the box and have a few features built in (slide locks back) that the 10-22 is missing. With a tubular magazine you never have the issue with them banning anything with a detachable box on it. Capacity says 14, so I'm not sure if that is an issue or is if Marlin has figured a way to get around that. I'm sure they have.


looks like 10 rounds will be the max for me...


----------



## Prepp(g)er

i am shooting air pistol( olympic)..have weekly training sessions for it..and started on rifle training with a 22..single shot anschuetz...maybe i'll use my first half year period buy for the 10/22 and a bolt action then why not? i saw the american rimfire is just about 400 € and the 10/22 tactical goes for 700 here..hmm..i love american gun manufacturers


----------



## Slippy

Prepp(g)er said:


> i am shooting air pistol( olympic)..have weekly training sessions for it..and started on rifle training with a 22..single shot anschuetz...maybe i'll use my first half year period buy for the 10/22 and a bolt action then why not? i saw the american rimfire is just about 400 € and the 10/22 tactical goes for 700 here..hmm..i love american gun manufacturers


We all can dream!
Barrett | KSC KREATE&#0153


----------



## Smitty901

Both the Ruger 10/22 and the Marlin Model 60 are excellent options. The Ruger has so many after market parts for it. You can do just about anything you want to it. My 10/22 has stayed pretty much as it came out of the box. Had one problem with a magazine took it apart cleaned it ,
never an issue again.
I have been playing with a loaner .17 air rifle it is impressive.


----------



## Prepp(g)er

damn slippy what the h. is that?


----------



## Prepp(g)er

Smitty901 said:


> Both the Ruger 10/22 and the Marlin Model 60 are excellent options. The Ruger has so many after market parts for it. You can do just about anything you want to it. My 10/22 has stayed pretty much as it came out of the box. Had one problem with a magazine took it apart cleaned it ,
> never an issue again.
> I have been playing with a loaner .17 air rifle it is impressive.


i know..the . 17. aka 4.5 mm air rifles are sick...but for shtf it is a toy imo..i mean you can get a rabbit or summin..and it is cheap as dirt in regard to ammo..i shoot hundreds of rounds per training session...it doesn't even cost me 5 bucks


----------



## bad

Per slippy's gun 
A 50bmg?


----------



## Prepp(g)er

got one more requirement done.now all i gotta do is pass a test in oct. and send in a confirmation i bought a kickass gun safe and then i'm good to get my ruger from my lgs in nov..perfect timing for my birthday


----------



## The Resister

Prepp(g)er said:


> first of all, as i'm new to this forum, feel free to relocate this thread if i put it in the wrong section.
> 
> first of all, i'm fairly new to shooting in general. apart from owning an bb for some time, and shooting it quite well on some occasions, i just recently started my training at my local gun club.
> 
> where i live, you have to train at first with a bb for a year, an after that for a year with a .22. so after 2 years of training and geting some licenses, you can own up to two handguns plus up to 3 rifles...with some restrictions like no full-auto, no pump-action etc.
> so please keep that in mind.i cannot just go out and buy like 15 different guns as i please, even though i might wish to do so.
> 
> now to my question.
> 
> i'm thinking of buying a .22 soon. i think having at least a .22 if i would need it is better than a pellet gun right?
> 
> but i really don't know what to get. is a .22 pistol like the colt 1911 .22 even suitable for self-defense and taking down game in a shtf situation? or is a rifle better in regard to accuracy and take down power...?
> 
> and what model should i get...
> 
> you see i'm clueless and have to make a difficult decision which will determine what i buy/ can buy in the future
> 
> i've seen from the posts i read that you guys (and girls) know your stuff, so please help a rookie out here. i very much appreciate it


It all depends on what you would use a firearm for. Do you want something for a specific use?

There are a lot of good .22 pistols on the market IF you are thinking of carrying a full sized pistol in the future. As a self defense weapon, the .22 may not make an adequate pistol, but it would be a good teaching aid - and it's better than not being armed.

If you are a prepper, the Ruger 10 - 22 rifle is among the best you can get. You can customize it with all kinds of stocks, optics, etc. and there is abundance of spare parts so you can always fix it.


----------



## redhawk

Rifle = Ruger 10/22 hands down!
Handgun = Ruger SP101 in .22 for revolver or Ruger Mark III for semi auto.
Can you tell that I like Rugers? :-D
JM2C


----------



## Prepp(g)er

just to update this thread a little bit. 

i finally got the gun license i've been waiting for for over a year. was a lot of work haha

but now i think i'll buy me a ruger american rimfire first, as it is only $400 for me.and then ima put a lil money on the side for the 10/22 tactical and a decent scope.

after that..idk what i can afford and fits in my gunsafe 

oh yeah and bullets...lots and lots of bullets..for me it's as of::rambo:: now prepping 2.0


----------



## Old SF Guy

Congrats Prepp(G)er.... Glad to see you come back and update us on your quest. Good luck on your weapons and bullets....


----------



## Prepp(g)er

Got a walther p22 target with 2 mags and a ruger 10/22 collectors edition now too...

Today a new nikon 3-9×40 scope arrived by mail.

I didnt quite like the precision enough to stick to factory iron sights..

Now its more mags and ofc bullets, lots and lots of bullets

After that im going to buy a .357 revolver, a long range rifle and a shotgun...all in time


----------



## Targetshooter

Slow down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! have some fun with the .22 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, get to know it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, a little advice ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.22 can be a life saver if you know how to use it right ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, practice with it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, take it apart ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,clean it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,learn it inside and out ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and a .22 pistol is good to have to ,,,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## Medic33

I don't understand you can own a semi auto pistol but not a pump action rife? weird 
I would get a rife just a single shot break action like a NEF of H&R or even if you can something like the double badger over and under it has two barrels one is a 22 the other a 410 shotgun here is a link.
Chiappa Firearms
this way it would be kind of like buying 2 for the price of one.
and yes it can be used for self defense the 22 is good out to about 100 yards after then it is counter productive because the sound wave actually will pass up the bullet and throw it all out of wack as it does so.


----------



## Atilla

I'd have voted for the 10/22 also, just can't beat the dependability, price, and number of parts/accessories available. If I could have only a few guns, a 10/22 would be in the top 5 for sure. A .22 pistol/revolver wouldn't make the top 10, unless it was part of a .22LR/45 1911 conversion kind of thing.

I wouldn't worry about not being able to buy the take-down 10/22 version. It has limited aftermarket stock and barrell options (although that is changing fast) and it still takes up a lot of room and is kinda heavy. It does fit places where people wouldn't assume a rifle can fit, but it sounds like in Germany that's not a good thing.

Anyway, the real reason that I'm replying to such an old post after you've made your decision is to defend a couple of .22s that nobody mentioned. First, is the Henry H001 or one of its variations. I believe they make a 10 round version for some markets and it is reliable, fun, and will shoot 22LR, 22L and 22 shorts. Admittedly 22 shorts aren't much but putting one in the bad guys eye would probably buy you some time if they were all you had. This is a fun gun to shoot.

The other one is the Browning SA-22, which takes down also so it might not be an option for you but it is be far the nicest and most accurate .22 I've ever shot. So if you ever get a chance to spend some time with one, take it.

I'd buy the Ruger 10/22 first. I'd grab my son's H001 first (over the 10/22, not necessarily first of everything) if the house was on fire. I'd run into my burning house to get the SA-22 (if I had one). 

Anyway, cheers from Texas! I got to spend some time in Hanover in 1990 or so and I loved it. I'd live in Germany if I had to leave the US. Good luck with your collection sounds like you are enjoying it.


----------



## Medic33

I am sure if the person can't have a pump action rifle and auto loading rifle like a 10/22 would be out of the league as well.


----------



## Mad Trapper

Browning take down semi is the nicest they make but it holds 12 rounds with one in the chamber. Next I'd get a ruger 10/22 and upgrade the barrel with a green mountain.


----------



## Medic33

might look at the AR-7


----------



## Plumbum

Might I suggest a loophole, Sweden has even tougher gun laws the Germany but there is a loophole. Start competing in IPSC and as the French say -Voila you can buy any sport shooting rifle you want. I compeat in IPSC with pistols and will be moving on to rifles this year to finnaly get that AR15 I have always wanted. This ofc depends on that "makes me want to puke" motion on banning semi auto weapons in the EU not being passed so if you havent already be shure to sign the petition against it!


----------



## Farva

Another congrats Prepp(G)er!

Although......

I am kind of with *RPD* a couple of pages ago and a couple of years ago. If you have access to CZ rifles at a reasonable price, being in Germany and all, I'd go that way. Hey, maybe they're expensive there too. Very good news though, congrats again!

*Plumbum*
Move here. Barring that, move to Canada, then come here on a T1. Sky's the limit then.


----------



## Plumbum

Farva said:


> Another congrats Prepp(G)er!
> 
> Although......
> 
> I am kind of with *RPD* a couple of pages ago and a couple of years ago. If you have access to CZ rifles at a reasonable price, being in Germany and all, I'd go that way. Hey, maybe they're expensive there too. Very good news though, congrats again!
> 
> *Plumbum*
> Move here. Barring that, move to Canada, then come here on a T1. Sky's the limit then.


The wife is not foreign to the idea of uprooting the kids and moving across the Atlantic. Last year the husband of one of her old friends got a job in South Carolina so they packed up the kids and moved, and she is ofc seding my wife pics of their new southern style house in Charleston and thats the style of house she has always wanted. I do have some concerns for expamle the job market, im not sure how much weight my degree in mechanical engineering carries across the atlantic?


----------

