# batons?



## ghostman (Dec 11, 2014)

Have you guys ever thought about investing in a baton? I have been thinking about looking into the collapsible ones. Anyone have any thoughts about them?


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

if for self defense, you had better knock the guy out or break that arm on the first blow... because he is already in danger-close...


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## Joe (Nov 1, 2016)

I had only one thought as soon as I read your post. Never bring a baton to a gunfight. LOL To be more serious are they legal to carry? I had a friend years ago when I was in high school that got his head beat in by someone with a tire iron OUCH!


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

What's the point?? A baton is for LE, when a violent suspect must be brought in for trial. If someone has warranted you hitting them with a baton, shoot them! 
Now, I understand sometimes fools need to get hurt but not killed, that's for tasers and OC.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

To me a baton is a useless PC device, my lead weighted sap worked 10X better.

I had to stop carrying it on duty, criminal rights you know.

You confront someone on PCP or similar drugs and you are going to be pulling it out from between your cheeks.

The sap did the trick with a head slap.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I have an old night stick that my next door neighbor carried on patrol. It's cool but I would rather have a pistol over a billy club, knife, entrenching tool or tomahawk for self defense.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> To me a baton is a useless PC device, my lead weighted sap worked 10X better.
> 
> I had to stop carrying it on duty, criminal rights you know.
> 
> ...


Socom is right. Better to have a five cell kelite flashlight using d cells. Perfectly legal everywhere. also it will break a major limb bone a whole lot faster than a colapsible baton.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

As I have gotten older, I have given much thought to a sword cane.
No, not really a baton, but it could be used as such. Although I would draw the blade, and use the other hand to wield the cane body either in parry, or blocking.
As an almost 70 year old, a cane would not be out of place and would compliment my pocket auto pistol quite well.
I can find no prohibition of them in the Florida statutes covering guns and knives.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Collapsible baton like the ASP or monadnock can't even bust a car window. Unfortunately, I am required by the department to carry them. I usually use it to knock on door.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> Socom is right. Better to have a five cell kelite flashlight using d cells. Perfectly legal everywhere. also it will break a major limb bone a whole lot faster than a colapsible baton.


Hah! I carried a five cell Maglight, baton was for a window dressing.

The Maglight was carried in the Sam brown ring, baton in the pant leg slot.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

6811 said:


> Collapsible baton like the ASP or monadnock can't even bust a car window. Unfortunately, I am required by the department to carry them. I usually use it to knock on door.


Some guys I know, added a steel slug in the end piece of the asp glassing it in place, kept an identical baton in their cruiser bag just in case.

I really am glad I retired out of the PD 10 years ago, as detective sergeant. The bull shit PC of today would have driven me out.

I don't know how they deal with it all, my hat is off to them.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

ghostman said:


> Have you guys ever thought about investing in a baton? I have been thinking about looking into the collapsible ones. Anyone have any thoughts about them?


If you are trained to use a baton, it is a fantastic weapon. If you aren't trained, it is just a stick.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> To me a baton is a useless PC device, my lead weighted sap worked 10X better.
> 
> I had to stop carrying it on duty, criminal rights you know.
> 
> ...


I can leave you permanently crippled crippled with a baton. Think common peroneal, for example. Dropping you like a sack of taters or dropping you like a permanent sack of taters all depends on force used. Either way, you are down and I leave the area.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Denton said:


> I can leave you permanently crippled crippled with a baton. Think common peroneal, for example. Dropping you like a sack of taters or dropping you like a permanent sack of taters all depends on force used. Either way, you are down and I leave the area.


Now @Denton, If I took that personally,

I would say before you got it out or if you had it in you hand, I would have put at least three rounds in you.

Pick on an old man, now would you?

Let me say that in the last 12 years on the job,

I had seen enough fail to be effective incidents with a baton to have zero confident's in them.

There are two problems, drugs, movement of target.

I have seen patrolmen that had previously had effective use of one get mauled in a different encounter.

They were trained it the use of one on a yearly basis at the academy also.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I worked in shop where absolutely, positively no guns allowed. But adjacent to the parking lot were 2 bars and the lot was routinely littered with used syringes. Not good. I carried a collapsable baton to and from the car. Not a good weapon but better than my old man arthritic hands. Once in the car, Mr. glock became my best friend again.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> As I have gotten older, I have given much thought to a sword cane.
> No, not really a baton, but it could be used as such. Although I would draw the blade, and use the other hand to wield the cane body either in parry, or blocking.
> As an almost 70 year old, a cane would not be out of place and would compliment my pocket auto pistol quite well.
> I can find no prohibition of them in the Florida statutes covering guns and knives.


While growing up in NC my mother's friend's husband (named Rex) was a county sheriff with a nasty reputation for excessive use of force. He was older and carried a 12ga walking cane in the car that if you pulled on the crook and then twisted would shoot a 3" shell through the rubber "foot" cap.

During a bank robbery in the early 70's Rex took his pistol off and using the cane walked into the bank to negotiate for the release of hostages (not sure if he had a 2nd hidden backup gun). Anyway he did shoot and seriously wound one of the robbers and all of the hostages were rescued.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> Now @Denton, If I took that personally,
> 
> I would say before you got it out or if you had it in you hand, I would have put at least three rounds in you.
> 
> ...


And, they fell asleep in their yearly class?

The ol' common peroneal target, for example, doesn't care about drugs and is an easy target, even when the target just won't sit still.

Obviously, a firearm would be a better weapon, and obviously, you'd shoot me, but the question was about batons.

Still amazed that your guys suck with the baton. Maybe y'all need me for an instructor. Or is it that in today's lovable world, you are only able to target toes, and in a very gentle way?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

First things first, CYA.
Is it legal to carry one in your area of operation?

I can only speak to Texas. According to Texas Penal Code 46.02, it is NOT legal to carry a baton(club) on or about your person. That same section makes it illegal to carry a handgun and any "illegal knife".
That said...
Another section makes it perfectly legal to carry a handgun, openly or concealed, on or about your person if you possess a valid License To Carry issued by the state.
And further still, another section(46.15(b)(6)) makes it legal to carry any weapon prohibited under 46.02 if you possess a valid License To Carry, and are in fact carrying a handgun.
So, in Texas, if you can legally carry a handgun, you can legally carry a baton(club).

So, I do.
The logic is reasonable. A club is not generally considered to be a "deadly force" weapon, though we all know that can be argued in court. Thus, if I am carrying a weapon with "deadly force" capacity(my handgun), it should not be my only option to defend myself, as it might not be legal to do so.
If I find myself in a situation against an attacker who isn't accepting my de-escalation tactics, and continues to come at me... but possess no obvious "deadly force" capability, I deploy the baton.
I have no intention of getting into a fist fight with an idiot, if I can help it.
A cracked kneecap, broken arm, and a few bruised ribs go a long way to ending a fight without killing someone who made a dumb choice, but doesn't necessarily want to kill me.

Now, if I have the displeasure of meeting a knife-weilding attacker?
That's when Mr. Glock comes out to play.

Know your areas of force. Know your laws. Cover Your Ass.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

I do not carry a baton but have a tire iron under the seat of every vehicle. Never had occasion to use it except to change tires. It is collapsible about three feet when extended . Comes with several sockets to fit on various lug nuts. It would hurt like hell if you were hit with it. Would not be my first choice to pull in a fight.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well having survived a couple of schools to learn how to use an ASP..will say I love them to pieces. Its like having a billy club on your person as opposed to in the trunk. Works wonders on mean dogs too. Never got around to hitting anybody with one but I know how..lol. Had to flick it out a time or two on humans and they gave up before being smited. They claim to a criminal ear it sounds a lot like a .12 gauge pump being racked back..which is a highly deafening sound to evil doers. Sure its prob stil illegal for civilians to lug one around. Now golf clubs are perfectly legal and can serve double duty as a walking stick. Me and the dog always have one on our walks. Pepper spray works good on people but not so well on Pit Bulls. Clubs and guns is what the doctor would perscribe for that.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

meh ----- if it works for you use it otherwise don't really think about just about anything I get my hands on can be used as a weapon.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Frying pan of the iron variety. The most efficient "baton"


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## Joe (Nov 1, 2016)

TG said:


> Frying pan of the iron variety. The most efficient "baton"


30 years ago when I married my wife her grandma said "make sure to buy her a plastic rolling pin". LOL I married a real hellcat.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Joe said:


> 30 years ago when I married my wife her grandma said "make sure to buy her a plastic rolling pin". LOL I married a real hellcat.


hahaha


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

TG said:


> Frying pan of the iron variety. The most efficient "baton"


I was going to saw Louisville Slugger. Especially if you can get a nice youth aluminum one.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

SOCOM42 said:


> To me a baton is a useless PC device, my lead weighted sap worked 10X better.
> 
> I had to stop carrying it on duty, criminal rights you know.
> 
> ...


What about the old school night stick? The ones that sort of got banned after some videotaped misuse in a certain town in California.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> What about the old school night stick? The ones that sort of got banned after some videotaped misuse in a certain town in California.


First they took away my sap, then my ironwood baton, left me with a tin can with rubber tips.

They could have given me a Taser.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Like others I would say a firearm would be a first choice but a good quality baton is a good tool if you know how to use it. In SHTF you may have to use force but not deadly force. Say if you have a prepper group and a couple of guys cant stand each other but hold critical skills and they get into a good fight and wont separate and you cannot allow them to harm each other or medical supplies for stupidity then a baton would be a good choice and probably teargas also. In my prepper gear I keep wooden dowels the size of batons, tear gas and handcuffs. You have to know pressure points with a baton.

Everything is not kill, kill, kill. Sometimes you have to subdue and take a prisoner.

Like some others mentioned make sure you find out the laws. In many areas it would be considered a concealed weapon.

I got into a self defense fight because of an argument turned into someone breaking a bottle over my head and partially stabbing me with the broken bottle. I defended myself to the point that I beat the living snot out of the guy with a collapsible baton. When I got done the baton looked like a banana and the guy was on the ground, getting up and running away. I nailed every pressure point until I said screw it.

This is my story that I mentioned before. After I got home then I was arrested at gun point. Wouldn't be told what charge until hours later then they tried to question me. After I told them a couple times to piss off because they wouldn't stop questioning me after I said I wanted a lawyer they then took me in the back and more or less beat me (Grand Rapids/Kent County, MI) About 6 of them. I did pretty good until one of them got be from behind with a punch at the base of my skull and that put me down.

Couple of days later I left the jail with two black eyes, busted lip, cut from ear to ear from my shirt collar. Several bruises on my back in the shape of a boot and other bruises all over. Oh, yeah I was charged with felony assault. Did I mention that I was a correction officer/ERT member during this? This was early to mid 2000 and the attorney bill was 8,000.00 plus some for the not guilty verdict.

After that experience I came to the decision that all prosecutors are scum. Not all cops or corrections officers are bad but I surely do not trust not one of them. Hell especially corrections with the things that I saw in Georgia and in Michigan.

After I left the jail I went to my local emergency room and requested an exam and the state police to make a report. Long story shorter is that months later the photographs and negatives were lost from the files in Lansing. My last meeting with Kent County Internal Affairs was him saying that his officers did no wrong and case closed. Then he gave me this F'd smile that I sincerely wanted to punch in the face.

Believe me or not I don't really care. I guess the moral of the story was that you have to watch what your doing and where you are located. What your actions are and he who calls the cops first wins or at least wins in the immediate timeframe.


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

ghostman said:


> Have you guys ever thought about investing in a baton? I have been thinking about looking into the collapsible ones. Anyone have any thoughts about them?


be sure to check your state's laws regarding them as many states make it illegal for non law enforcement civilians to carry them which is how it is here in Colorado similar laws apply to things like slap jacks, SAP devices like weight baseball caps and loaded knuckles on gloves. I wish i could carry one of the extendable ones as they are a great non-lethal option when used correctly and easy to train with.

one option is a self defense cane there are a wide variety of them such as the united cutlery polypropylene nearly unbreakable one and the Kabar aluminum one. I have the one from united cutlery and it is actually rather nice and being a cane it never gets looked at twice and also you get a certain level of defenseless old man/woman aurora which in itself can help out some criminal actually have a code of honor not to mess with cripples/infirm/eldery sadly not enough of them though.


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