# Prepping without food.



## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

.When you thnk of prepping, you think of stockpiles of food, endless pantries, shelves that go on for miles.
But mebbe we're going bout it all wrong.

See, a nuclear winter is a side effect of several different possible scenarios. Sure, a stockpile of food will get you through the crisis, but these things may last for years and those cans of beans will dry up eventually. 

So with that in mind I started playing with hydroponics a while back. While I still kill artificial plants, I have found a new avenue for prepping. Stockpile grow equipment. See even if you aren't interested in sitting down and learning the trade right now, you can be slowly buying components and shelving them with your other EOW stockpiles. Think about this: hydroponics equipment will store longer than food.

Also, the hydroponic solutions are verrrrry concentrated. About 2 shotglasses per gallon of water. $40 will buy you enough solution for a year of indoor growing.

I would go with flourescant grow bulbs because they use far less power. 2x40w versus a 500w HPS. They sell grow bulbs at the big box hardware stores. For plants and reptiles. They would last on your shelf for decades (I think??)

The baskets, media and pumps will all store forever, and the tanks are actually made from those rubber-maid tubs. You prolly already have a few of them, fulla Christmas decorations or some such.

I brought this up as a sidebar to the other thread/scenario about 2 volcanoes causing a wintery summer. I had made a statement that you would only have a bout a 2 week window to act before the masses got wise to what was happening and started flooding the market for indoor grow supplies. If these eruptions occured during a week when there were bigger news stories, you may not realize that a nuculear winter was enroute until it was too late to shop.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Sorry, I ramble when I get smoky. The point I was trying to make was that hydroponics supplies would have twice the shelf life of most food.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Interesting...


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

The longer the scenario the more you need to be looking at not just a stockpile, but a method of replenishment, for any of your consumable needs.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

It is certainly a good avenue to pursue, but I wonder about how one keeps the bulbs and pumps running for the foreseeable future if the skies are darkened. Thoughts on this?


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

So, your hydroponics goes down for some reason. Say you ran out of electricity to power it. So now you don't eat because you didn't stockpile any food.

A better idea is to stockpile food & grow stuff to supplement your stores.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

I have about a year (less now) of food stored. 

But I also grow fruit and veggies. The stored food is ONLY to get me through non producing times. Like now. I only have lemons, limes, grapefruit, passion fruit, and oranges. 

Plenty of stuff coming out of dormancy, but nothing producing. In a few months, I'll have peaches, plums, nectarines, blueberries, apricots, etc. Hopefully I'll have enough to can this year. Everything is still young. But the hope is that I can survive off what is producing out in the yard, and only buy meat and dairy at the market. In a SHTF scenario, I can maybe trade fruit and veggies for meat and dairy. 

Best of all, everything is watered by rain water. Hopefully it'll work out to be free eventually


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I like the hydroponics idea, as long as the power continues. Greenhouses don't need power, but dark skies (nuclear winter, volcanic eruption) reduce their usefullness along with a solar cell solution to the power problem. And photovoltaics may be destroyed in an EMP or CME scenario.

So many things rely on the electric grid, the problem seems insoluble.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Just spit-balling here... but since solar concentrator attatchments work so well on solar ovens, I suspect they'd also prove very useful in a 'dark skies' scenario. Some of the silvery insulation wrap perhaps, help keep heat in the grow space too?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

P.S. Ralph, are you concerned that the grow lights will attract attention from the DEA and local LEOs?


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Maybe a good idea to think about what foods can be grown naturally in low light/low tech situations? Fungi/mushrooms, some kinds of algae, and of course protein sources like crickets that do not need the forage that other animals do. Interesting thought. I think I will do a little research on low light food plants.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Sorry, I ramble when I get smoky. The point I was trying to make was that hydroponics supplies would have twice the shelf life of most food.


but what to do for lighting...and power for the lights...


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> Maybe a good idea to think about what foods can be grown naturally in low light/low tech situations? Fungi/mushrooms, some kinds of algae, and of course protein sources like crickets that do not need the forage that other animals do. Interesting thought. I think I will do a little research on low light food plants.


Hi, RNprepper. Low light food plants, ah yes. Do you remember the 'Biosphere 2'. It was a research project in Arizona, where 8 people lived for two years sealed away under glass. They almost starved! Not enough space dedicated to the farm.

Well, one of the plants they learned will grow in low light was the common sweet potato. They potted those bad boys up EVERYWHERE, on the stairways, in the halls, LOL.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Sorry, I ramble when I get smoky. The point I was trying to make was that hydroponics supplies would have twice the shelf life of most food.


Both

With hydro comes need for electrical supply

I would go food 1 hydro 2


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Rnprepper. Insects are probably easiest

Mushrooms can be good if you have waste to feed them with


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm much more into sustainable living these days then preps - I will admit.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Biosphere failed not due to farming, but due to a buncha PHDs who were too damned smart to listen to the low-brow pouring their foundation. Nope, they were scientists and they didn't need any help from some grunt with a cement truck...even if the grunt had 40 years of experience with concrete of all types. Naw, they were too smart to listen when he told 'em to seal the concrete after it cured, but they rushed and skipped both of those steps. Once they were sealed up, the concrete floor leached out their oxygen. 

You can point out reasons that this indoor farming wouldn;t work, but if there is a nuclear winter scenario, then you will FIND a way to support the lighting and soil or chemicals. You either farm or die. When you are facing starvation with your family, you will get inventive or die.


I wanted to mention one other inexpensive item to consider, even if you goo with dirt versus hydroponics: Cloning solution. This stuff is damn near magical. you can take a clipping from any tree or bush, paint some of this onto the spot where you severed it, and plant it. Like that tree your neighbor has? Take a branch and clone it. Bottle of the stuff is a few bucks. 

Why would you need cloning solution? How about this--you recognize that those 2 volcanoes in the Pacific are going to cause a nuclear winter. And between the reduced sunlight and acid rain, you can expect to lose all of your friut trees. They're too big to bring in the house, and if you wait until the winter is over to plant new trees then it'll be 15 years EOW before you eat a single damned apple.

But if you grabbed a few branches and cloned them, then you have little trees that need little light and little space. These clippings will be the same age as the tree they came from, so the clones will start giving fruit while they are still small. Like a dwarf tree.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Keep in mind that when people are starving to eath, you can forget about growing outdoors, even if there is sunlight. You may need to grow indoors just to hide it from the neighbors.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Cloning is excellent but not forever. 2 or 3 Generations and changes really start to show - not like it matters in "life or death!", just if you clone, it is good for big runs, but you should maintain genetics. With all things I have cloned, not many generations without going back to seed for mother roots (seed or spores).
3 clones generations is our mushroom limit because yield gets affected and bloomers get watched for signs of loss or veering off the original. Some plants are hyper tolerant to clone generations and some are affected quickly.

I clone everything, it really is great.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Ralph Rotten said:


> .When you thnk of prepping, you think of stockpiles of food, endless pantries, shelves that go on for miles.
> But mebbe we're going bout it all wrong.
> 
> See, a nuclear winter is a side effect of several different possible scenarios. Sure, a stockpile of food will get you through the crisis, but these things may last for years and those cans of beans will dry up eventually.
> ...


Nice theories you got there but hydo gardening is not really all that easy to do. Florescent or the Alfgore twisty bulbs do not give good tight buds.or so the hippies say. The temp has to be be just right and maintained for a good while. Get a different hobby.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Temps, air exchange, light cycles - just know your plants
Greens are mostly cold. Tomato starts cool, ends hot. It is not too difficult if you reproduce what the creature wants. We have flowers in water at outdoor Temps now and they are going - long as it stays above freezing. It would be the same for kale or lettuce etc.
Not everything lends itself so well, but important stuff does. I've always wondered what a whole sweet root like carrot would do...


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

sideKahr said:


> P.S. Ralph, are you concerned that the grow lights will attract attention from the DEA and local LEOs?


Might be legal or even encouraged where his grow location is.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> P.S. Ralph, are you concerned that the grow lights will attract attention from the DEA and local LEOs?


Naw. I just grew corn and grass (bermuda) during my testing. The guys who get noticed are running a buncha high pressure sodium for their lighting. Pot farmers love the things, but from a prepper perspective they suck too much power. HPS come in several wattages ranging from 500w-1000w. Sure, they may make your chronic burst in growth, but for a prepper they would hog your entire generator.

But florescents only pull 40w apeice, and emit very little heat. You could reasonably support a garage farm on a generator.

Someone back a few posts said that prepping food was better than prepping farming supplies. I was never advocating one at the exclusion of the other. I was suggesting incorporating one into the other. You buy stuff to put on your prepper shelves all the time, this is just MORE stuff. Really, it's a direction that you come to once you work all of the scenarios out to their bitter end. In a starvation scenario, people will eat every seed, every kernal of corn, and every plant even remotely edible. So if you survive this, what do you use for seed to start over when your canned goods run out? Also, gardening inside is stealthy. People will wanna take your food if they find out about it.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

They make fantastic plants. Led is a substitute but I don't know yet if you can really crank yields like you can with hps. You get more from continuous givers too and you can Bonzai the heck out of peppers and such, they bounce back in 1 or 2 days. Power is the only consideration. Flourescents are like a coma and hps like a raceway.
I think some things like led better too. Seems like the cactus never did better. A cool intensity, but haven't done much Bonzai with them alone because we run all 3 and hps/led combo in a couple rooms.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

How about the high end LEDs that are used for planted aquarium setups? Finnex is one brand that seems well respected.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Naw. I just grew corn and grass (bermuda) during my testing. The guys who get noticed are running a buncha high pressure sodium for their lighting. Pot farmers love the things, but from a prepper perspective they suck too much power. HPS come in several wattages ranging from 500w-1000w. Sure, they may make your chronic burst in growth, but for a prepper they would hog your entire generator.
> 
> But florescents only pull 40w apeice, and emit very little heat. You could reasonably support a garage farm on a generator.
> 
> Someone back a few posts said that prepping food was better than prepping farming supplies. I was never advocating one at the exclusion of the other. I was suggesting incorporating one into the other. You buy stuff to put on your prepper shelves all the time, this is just MORE stuff. Really, it's a direction that you come to once you work all of the scenarios out to their bitter end. In a starvation scenario, people will eat every seed, every kernal of corn, and every plant even remotely edible. So if you survive this, what do you use for seed to start over when your canned goods run out? Also, gardening inside is stealthy. People will wanna take your food if they find out about it.


For sure prepping food is ideal, once you have an emergency reserve you can grow fresh food. In the long run you can save money, but food is generally cheaper in the short term. I have been considering hydroponics for a few years now but 
I haven't been able to legitimize it just yet as there are added costs up north because warm season is so short and I don't heat my house.

I have found lentils and garlic, onion/chive, radish, greens such as kale, letuce, oats, beans, mustard, to be easiest and quickest to grow. carrots have grown but tend to be really small. I have had corn stock and husk grow but no corn it takes a while though I can never seem to find my tubers. Growing season is short and everything takes longer. I planned my crop based on viking foods.

Dandy lion are damn easy so are daisys.


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