# A Challenge to the forum: Underground stashing of firearm supplies



## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

Hi been on a several missions, to far away lands.

Here's what I would like to get your opinion on.

What would you do?

long term storage of loaded Magazines, ar and pistol sizes.
Would need to be water proof.
how much dissident ? How much o2 absorbers (what strength?) to go into a food saver vacuum pack.
THEN what would you place the sealed Vac packs into?
Then how much more dissident and o2 prior to sealing that container?

They would need to store for a long period perhaps for the day TSHTF


ok, thinking caps.

and thanks for your comments.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

https://www.bluguardvci.com. I've been using these for over ten years. Think the early ones I have were supposed to be good for five but opened one bag last week, gun looked the same as when I put it in10 years ago. Kept a few in a barn, no special box, animals never bothered. Not sure about underground, frost heave may cause something to puncture bag. I like the no special prep thing, Just put them in and seal.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Why would I want to hide any firearm magazines or supplies? 

But hypothetically, IF I did I might put a few in a sealed mylar bag with an O2 absorber and place them in a PVC Pipe and seal the end of the pipe with a cap screw. No reason to bury it as I might just place it in between my floor joists amongst the insulation so that it looks just like some plumbing pipe. IF I wanted to that of course! :vs_smile:


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

I heard from a little birdie that these were pretty good and affordable...


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

StratMaster said:


> I heard from a little birdie that these were pretty good and affordable...
> 
> View attachment 97169


What are they called?
Where do get 'em?

This is what i was thinking: https://www.instructables.com/id/Waterproof-Underground-PVC-Cache/
BUT how much Dessident? O2 absorber? and What cc for the o2 absorbers?


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Why would I want to hide any firearm magazines or supplies?
> 
> But hypothetically, IF I did I might put a few in a sealed mylar bag with an O2 absorber and place them in a PVC Pipe and seal the end of the pipe with a cap screw. No reason to bury it as I might just place it in between my floor joists amongst the insulation so that it looks just like some plumbing pipe. IF I wanted to that of course! :vs_smile:


Slip- Need a remote burial location in this particular case


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Urinal Cake said:


> What are they called?
> Where do get 'em?
> 
> This is what i was thinking: https://www.instructables.com/id/Waterproof-Underground-PVC-Cache/
> BUT how much Dessident? O2 absorber? and What cc for the o2 absorbers?


These are called "mono vaults" . I think I bought mine at the Sportsman's Guide. Another birdie told me to just slip your stuff... ammo, weapons, etc... into a VCI vapor bag to protect from moisture, THEN put into a mono vault. Old school? Just coat your rifle with cosmoline... inside and out.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Oh yes: If a guy is gonna bury stuff, it's a good idea to bring along some railroad spikes, coffee cans, washers, scrap metal, nuts and bolts and the like. Stick these in the ground here and there and someone with a metal detector will give up in short order.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I have cases for sonar buoys that function like the vault cases. Cover Ammo and firearms with grease or cosmoline. Seal the threads on the cap in a like manner. Use a fence post digger and place the container vertically as horizontal is easier for the metal detectors. In a junk yard with lots of metal bits or the bottom of a pond are great statagies. The French underground routinely hid weapons under manure piles and in outhouses. Multiple locations secretly marked and recorded by you alone would ensure survival of something. Food I would store separately as well as other gear.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Urinal Cake said:


> BUT how much Dessident? O2 absorber? and What cc for the o2 absorbers?


Depends on volume of air you're dealing with.
I'd say, use the sealable bags, drop them into a gasketed bucket, fill the bucket with air/sun-dried sand around the bag, and drop in a single small 02 absorber and a single small dessicant pack.
That will take care of any moisture/02 in the top of the bucket, and the minuscule amount between the sand grains.

Don't open it, store it in a cool/dry place. Underground is ok, but you better KNOW your gasket is clean and completely sealed, and that your chosen bucket is 100% impermeable to air and water.

For small objects, like magazines, these might fit the bill: https://www.amazon.com/MTM-SAC-Survivor-Ammo-Can/dp/B00AU67M5K
I've seen them sold locally at a sporting goods store. Comes with a VCI bag. I like the double seal. I don't like the small size. Personal preference.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Mylar Bags - ShieldPro SafeCache Gun/Cache Storage Bags - Discount Mylar Bags

ZipLock Mylar Bag Gun Case Firearm/Rifle/Shotgun Storage

Poly Gun Bags

you don't want short term poly vacuum bagging - you want mylar bagging at the least - the specialty chem treated mylar is even better >>>> go with both 02 absorbers and desiccant packs - glue/tape them down on opposite sides of the bagging - don't allow the desiccant to make direct contact with metal - make sure to lub everything down with a good gun product like Barricade ...

pack everything in a hard container with at least a waterproof gasket if not an airtite seal >>>> more desiccant and if airtite throw in some 02 absorbers - layers of protection won't be hurting anything ...


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Why would I want to hide any firearm magazines or supplies?
> 
> But hypothetically, IF I did I might put a few in a sealed mylar bag with an O2 absorber and place them in a PVC Pipe and seal the end of the pipe with a cap screw. No reason to bury it as I might just place it in between my floor joists amongst the insulation so that it looks just like some plumbing pipe. IF I wanted to that of course! :vs_smile:


I have 3 complete "start over" caches spread around the area - just in case I lose my main spread - one of the caches is buried with all season access ....


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

what about dropping a piece of dry ice before sealing the container? Wouldn't that suck up all the O2?

Peace & burial...
Michael J.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Michael_Js said:


> what about dropping a piece of dry ice before sealing the container? Wouldn't that suck up all the O2?
> 
> Peace & burial...
> Michael J.


dry ice is old school - used to use it with buckets before mylar and 02 absorbers came along - it's not alot fun to screw with and you land up wasting more than anything else >>> not good for using with mylar for a few reasons - but mainly it's a gaseous expeller of 02 thru substitution - if don't you catch it perfectly the over pressure will blow your bag - in the old days if you didn't blow a bucket lid or two packing food buckets it was weird ...


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I’d use 6” (white) PVC pipe with glue on caps on both ends. I wouldn’t trust a screw on cap with gasket. When it’s time to open, hacksaw one end off. No chance of leakage this way. I said 6” because an assembled AR won’t fit inside 4 “. A desiccant pack and O2 absorber suitable for a 5 gallon bucket should be ok. The only downside is a stick of 6” pvc costs over $40.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Chiefster23 said:


> I'd use 6" (white) PVC pipe with glue on caps on both ends. I wouldn't trust a screw on cap with gasket. When it's time to open, hacksaw one end off. No chance of leakage this way. I said 6" because an assembled AR won't fit inside 4 ". A desiccant pack and O2 absorber suitable for a 5 gallon bucket should be ok. The only downside is a stick of 6" pvc costs over $40.


I've never had the inkling to bury anything, much less boomsticks and freedom seeds. But if I were, it would be this method.... pipe cleaner and a copious amount of glue.

I wouldn't bother with a hacksaw, though. Too bulky and heavy. You can buy one of these for a lot less money, bulk and weight:


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

If I were going to bury some stuff, I would use PVC pipe with glue on caps, and handwarmers for O2 absorbers.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

A ElsieNine spent the winter buried in MeatChicken in an ammo can, 8" below ground.

The Kitty Litter took a hit, but Elsie is happy to be above ground.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

So should i food saver w o2 and dissident packs THEN Mylar or skip the foodsaver. loaded in sealed pvc, the objects are hi cap ar and glock mags...


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

The only reason Elsie saw light is because I found a spare mag on arfcom for her.

The Kitty Litter is from Walmart and is silica


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

I’ve wanted to do this on some islands that are not inhabited and make reasoned stops while bugging out. Great thread lots of detail thanks.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Well since everyone else has great ideas about the how of storing, I will address the what of the storing. Do not store your magazines fully loaded, Over time the compressed springs will begin to adjust and you will invariably get a weak feeding magazine. I typically do not keep my magazines fully loaded and rotate them periodically to prevent this. In a long term storage situation...I would not load the magazines.

Also I would grease the metal parts up. Yes it means a cleaning before use...but better that than having some residual moisture making it unusable over weeks month or years under ground.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Urinal Cake said:


> So should i food saver w o2 and dissident packs THEN Mylar or skip the foodsaver. loaded in sealed pvc, the objects are hi cap ar and glock mags...


Food saver bags will leak air eventually. They are not air tight long term.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Old SF Guy said:


> Well since everyone else has great ideas about the how of storing, I will address the what of the storing. Do not store your magazines fully loaded, Over time the compressed springs will begin to adjust and you will invariably get a weak feeding magazine.........


That's old-school thinking. It's been debunked many times.

The worst thing you can do with mag springs is load & unload & load & unload & load & unload &load & unload & load them.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Urinal Cake said:


> So should i food saver w o2 and dissident packs THEN Mylar or skip the foodsaver. loaded in sealed pvc, the objects are hi cap ar and glock mags...


if you want to vac pack the handgun or magazines after greasing them down good - it won't hurt anything - no packs - the poly bagging will still help to protect against moisture and keep the lub smear down ....


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

They've used this stuff for decades. Little bird knows that no matter how much you try to keep moisture out. It will work it's way in and destroy whatever your trying to save/hide that's not protected.

https://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosmoline-for-firearms/


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> That's old-school thinking. It's been debunked many times.
> 
> The worst thing you can do with mag springs is load & unload & load & unload & load & unload &load & unload & load them.


Sure thing buddy... Debunk it by leaving a mag loaded for years. Me, I'm gonna figure that if I have time to dig up a buried cache of weapons, I have time to load some magazines.

I'm old school that way, it makes logical sense and I'm gonna go with it. Just like they debunked magnets screwing up magnetic stripes on Credit cards....well I've had severl just stop working when I have carried them near my phone....crazy how that works hunh? Also it was once a fact that the earth was flat.


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## Alteredstate (Jul 7, 2016)

https://www.backwoodshome.com/bury-a-gun-and-ammo-for-15-years/


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

http://militarynewbie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/TC-31-29-Special-Forces-Caching-Techniques.pdf


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Old SF Guy said:


> Sure thing buddy... Debunk it by leaving a mag loaded for years. Me, I'm gonna figure that if I have time to dig up a buried cache of weapons, I have time to load some magazines.
> 
> I'm old school that way, it makes logical sense and I'm gonna go with it. Just like they debunked magnets screwing up magnetic stripes on Credit cards....well I've had severl just stop working when I have carried them near my phone....crazy how that works hunh? Also it was once a fact that the earth was flat.


Well, lots of things used to be considered 'logical sense'. I recall people saying taking baths used less water than showers. Gum took seven years to digest. Eating carrots was good for your eyesight. Watching TV 'too close' will ruin your eyes. Being out when it's cold gives you a cold. Spicy foods cause ulcers. Going swimming in less than an hour after eating will cause cramps. Still subscribe to those too?


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Well, lots of things used to be considered 'logical sense'. I recall people saying taking baths used less water than showers. Gum took seven years to digest. Eating carrots was good for your eyesight. Watching TV 'too close' will ruin your eyes. Still subscribe to those too?


I still shave my palms...just in case


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Old SF Guy said:


> I still shave my palms...just in case


If you'd just quit doing 'that', you won't have to. :tango_face_wink:


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Chipper said:


> They've used this stuff for decades. Little bird knows that no matter how much you try to keep moisture out. It will work it's way in and destroy whatever your trying to save/hide that's not protected.
> 
> https://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosmoline-for-firearms/


if I'd bought a few crates of Mosins back in the days - picked them up along with a few spam cans of Ruskie ammo for deep long term storage "militia" arming >>> and they'd been stripped and cleaned ready for use - I would re-cosmoline those Kraut Killers - they were designed & built with that in mind - and the whole personal purpose would OK the time & effort to get them ready again ....

but >>> with modern long storage methods available - purpose of caching being hidden but still have a weapon readily available - and I wouldn't cosmoline a modern semi-auto period and not anything for a "rapid use" cache ...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Chipper said:


> They've used this stuff for decades. Little bird knows that no matter how much you try to keep moisture out. It will work it's way in and destroy whatever your trying to save/hide that's not protected.


Tis a universal truth.
Water always wins.


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