# George Floyd dies by Cop in Minneapolis; Riots ensue



## Slippy

Just learning about this situation regarding George Floyd and his death after being arrested by Minneapolis, MN police.

Riots are happening as I type this. Fascinating.


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## csi-tech

Police Departments have been hiring whatever they can get. This case is utterly indefensible. The Officer ([email protected]#4%6E) with his knee on Floyd's throat is clearly using excessive and illegal force. Any Officer who observed this or participated in it are complicit in homicide. I'm glad I retired. If this is what the profession is becoming, I'm glad I left.


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## Slippy

One of the Target stores in Minneapolis is getting looted! Free TV's for all!


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## Chipper

Yet another innocent person killed by the cops in the Cities. People are getting mighty sick and tired of this crap. Wait til the shooting starts. 

That cop sure looked like a hero with his knee on that guys neck. Prosecute the moron for murder.


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## Mad Trapper

What the Minneapolis police did was *MURDER!!!* Plain and simple. Those 4 SOBs need a neck stretching, soon. And should all be in the crowbar hotel, *NOW!!!* In general prison population.

I'd be rioting too if it was my kin.

Look at what LE did!!!

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/awful-video-shows-mn-police-officer-kneeling-black-mans-neck-later-died-4-officers-later-fired/

And where are these 4 SOBs friends now? AWOL!!!!

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/looters-raid-target-store-near-minneapolis-midst-george-floyd-protests-steal-tvs-clothes-groceries-no-police-around-video/


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## Mad Trapper

Slippy said:


> Just learning about this situation regarding George Floyd and his death after being *murdered* by Minneapolis, MN police.
> 
> Riots are happening as I type this. Fascinating.


Fixed it for you Slippy


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## Back Pack Hack

Slippy said:


> Just learning about this situation regarding George Floyd and his death after being arrested by Minneapolis, MN police.
> 
> Riots are happening as I type this. Fascinating.


He was never arrested. He didn't live long enough.


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## bigwheel

Slippy said:


> Just learning about this situation regarding George Floyd and his death after being arrested by Minneapolis, MN police.
> 
> Riots are happening as I type this. Fascinating.


Why do fat old out of shape democrats insist to fight with cops. Do they get extra virgins maybe?


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## Denton

bigwheel said:


> Why do fat old out of shape democrats insist to fight with cops. Do they get extra virgins maybe?


The guy wasn't fat, old or out of shape. He wasn't fighting with the cops. There's no way to defend the killing. No way.

The most disgusting thing was the other cops mulling about and not doing anything to stop the murderer.


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## Denton

I'm not into sports, let alone basketball. Just watching basketball makes me tired. Now, I might have to take Geritol and suck it up. I'm now a Denver Nuggets fan.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/mich...olice-officers-involved-in-george-floyd-death


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## csi-tech

I'm of the opinion that they should have been arrested and fired and prosecuted. They should receive their due process, let the appeals process run it's course and the verdict and sentencing mandated by the jury and law be carried out as prescribed. The community at large should let the process run it's course as a civilized society well should, constitutionally and properly.


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## Back Pack Hack

Mayor is calling for their arrests.


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## Mad Trapper

Denton said:


> I'm not into sports, let alone basketball. Just watching basketball makes me tired. Now, I might have to take Geritol and suck it up. I'm now a Denver Nuggets fan.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/sports/mich...olice-officers-involved-in-george-floyd-death


Guy on Nuggets has a heart and brain.

LeBron used this for an agenda. Posting Kraperneck taking a knee alongside the murderous Minneaplois PD photo . LeBron is another POS.


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## Mad Trapper

Back Pack Hack said:


> Mayor is calling for their arrests.


D-Mayor has a problem with rotten apples in their entire PD.


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## Mad Trapper

csi-tech said:


> I'm of the opinion that they should have been arrested and fired and prosecuted. They should receive their due process, let the appeals process run it's course and the verdict and sentencing mandated by the jury and law be carried out as prescribed. The community at large should let the process run it's course as a civilized society well should, constitutionally and properly.


If I was on a jury I'd be happy with capital murder, for all four officers involved.


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## bigwheel

Well now why would the cop want to kill an innocent person? Were they mad at the guy? Smelled like an Eric Garner deal to the jaded eye.


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## Denton

Mad Trapper said:


> If I was on a jury I'd be happy with capital murder, for all four officers involved.


I wouldn't go that far, but it would be easy to see that position.

I spent several years as an M.P. I used my brain, which I viewed as the most powerful weapon. There were times when brainpower didn't cut it and I had to use physical means to take control. I saw it as a personal defeat. Still, I never put anyone in danger of dying. Never.

When I see incidents like this, I take it personally. People with such little empathy have no place in LE/CJ.


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## csi-tech

Mad Trapper said:


> If I was on a jury I'd be happy with capital murder, for all four officers involved.


State laws are a little different. Here in the volunteer state I'd waiver a bit on pre-meditated first degree murder. But pre-meditation can be formed in an instant. What he did, was "Likely to result in serious bodily injury or death." The State must prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden lies with the state, not the defense. Over charge and the D.A. may be left like the Cayce Anthony case. Acquittal, they over reached. Here, I would work with the Office of the D.A. and probably (after the criminal homicide case) go with 2nd. degree murder. The sentence would be up to a judge and jury.


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## Denton

bigwheel said:


> Well now why would the cop want to kill an innocent person? Were they mad at the guy? Smelled like an Eric Garner deal to the jaded eye.


Why the Hell would a cop feel the need to kill someone in his custody, but it happened.

I wonder if that officer has a brother. You know, maybe a brother who committed a non-violent crime. Maybe he was apprehended and didn't resist. I wonder what the officer would think if his brother was killed in such a manner.


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## Mad Trapper

bigwheel said:


> Well now why would the cop want to kill an innocent person? Were they mad at the guy? Smelled like an Eric Garner deal to the jaded eye.


"Well now why would the cop want to kill an innocent person? "

Because they can, and do.


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## Inor

Mad Trapper said:


> "Well now why would the cop want to kill an innocent person? "
> 
> Because they can, and do.


In Minneapolis is it usually because the "innocent person" is into a dope dealer or a bookie for some BIG money and the cops are paid by said dope dealer or bookie to take care of the problem. Boston, Chicago and Miami are pikers compared to the Minneapolis police for corruption.


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## Mad Trapper

csi-tech said:


> State laws are a little different. Here in the volunteer state I'd waiver a bit on pre-meditated first degree murder. But pre-meditation can be formed in an instant. What he did, was "Likely to result in serious bodily injury or death." The State must prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt. The burden lies with the state, not the defense. Over charge and the D.A. may be left like the Cayce Anthony case. Acquittal, they over reached. Here, I would work with the Office of the D.A. and probably (after the criminal homicide case) go with 2nd. degree murder. The sentence would be up to a judge and jury.


Charge all 4 shit bags with the WHOLE array of murder charges, let the jury decide which ones to convict them of. Then NONE get off, or off easy.

Show jurors the video, states burden is done.

Minimum, if not capital, life without parole is what they have earned for their behavior. I'm juror 1.

If any of these shit bags get off, it will be hell for LE to do their jobs honestly. Besides that, riots will ensue...


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## Kauboy

Officers like this make it harder for other cops to do a good job.
The pendulum always swings...

Officers will eventually be restricted to harsh words and red ink pens, but hands-off, thanks to these dirtbags who abused their power.
The people who will NEED to be handled roughly won't be, and someone will get hurt as a result. All thanks to these turds, and those like them, that don't know the meaning of "reasonable force".

I support cops, and by a large margin, they are good people trying to do a good job. But they are being hogtied by their own. That thin blue line is getting thinner every day. Until officers start correcting their own fellow cops, and getting rid of the bad eggs, things will only get worse, for civilians and for themselves.


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## Slippy

Does anybody know if a video exists that shows the events leading up to the video that shows Floyd on the ground with the cops knee on his neck?

That would be interesting to see.


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## Slippy

The natives of Minneapolis have turned into Arsonists. Areas around the city are being burned. Apparently the natives decided that the Auto Zone would would have to be burned down.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-reportedly-set-minneapolis-autozone-on-fire/


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## Slippy

CNN News Anchor alludes that all of this nonsense was caused by President Trump.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/n...n-blames-trump-death-george-floyd-minneapolis


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## stevekozak

All I am going to say is that I think a lot of ya'll must have watched a different video than I did, and/or interpreted it differently. Regardless, looting is a senseless criminal act. I think all looters should be shot. Democrats should be happy about it, as it would bolster their COVID death numbers.


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## Demitri.14

csi-tech said:


> I'm of the opinion that they should have been arrested and fired and prosecuted. They should receive their due process, let the appeals process run it's course and the verdict and sentencing mandated by the jury and law be carried out as prescribed. The community at large should let the process run it's course as a civilized society well should, constitutionally and properly.


I agree, but the key words here are "Civilized Society". As is apparent from the response, these people a neither Civilized or a Society.


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## Slippy

Since CNN has already claimed it was Trump's fault, we might as well make a few wagers on this;

Whats the "Over/Under" on how long before a "Fakebook" account shows up of the police officer and his NAZI or Aryan tattoos? And how long before it is proven to be a fake?

The first one to post a news article saying that George was a "Gentle giant" and was loved by his entire church community, wins a "moderator of the day" from @Denton

Will a CVS or Will a Walgreens be the first drugstore to burn in the riots?

Has the mayor of Minneapolis, who is in charge of the police dept, throw the whole police department under the bus and act like he knew nothing about any of this?

Will the attorney for the family of George be Gloria Allred or the guy who defended Travon Martin and lost that case?

Will we discover that the cop was following protocol and dept policy approved by the mayor and commisioners?

Will we discover that George did something really bad moments before his arrest like kill a dog or rape an old woman?

Why can't we all just get along and love one another? :vs_love:


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## Prepared One

Slippy said:


> The first one to post a news article saying that George was a "Gentle giant" and was loved by his entire church community


They interviewed the man's family on the news here in Houston and that's exactly what they said. He was a gentle giant loved by everybody.


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## NewRiverGeorge

Kauboy said:


> Officers like this make it harder for other cops to do a good job.
> The pendulum always swings...
> 
> Officers will eventually be restricted to harsh words and red ink pens, but hands-off, thanks to these dirtbags who abused their power.
> The people who will NEED to be handled roughly won't be, and someone will get hurt as a result. All thanks to these turds, and those like them, that don't know the meaning of "reasonable force".
> 
> I support cops, and by a large margin, they are good people trying to do a good job. But they are being hogtied by their own. That thin blue line is getting thinner every day. Until officers start correcting their own fellow cops, and getting rid of the bad eggs, things will only get worse, for civilians and for themselves.


I'm with Kauboy on this...

While I believe in the "thin blue line" and appreciate the fine men and women who are out there every day, this is atrocious. The man was cuffed and by all accounts (and a video feed from a restaurant) , complying with the officers. There is no justification for their actions. He is cuffed let the man sit up. This is murder plain and simple.

I would imagine we are all law abiding citizens here and would comply with an officer's request, just as he appears to be doing. This could happen to any of us.

NRG


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## Piratesailor

As Kauboy mentioned, we’ll see issues arising from the act and those “issues” will affected the rest of us. As with other incidents, real or fake, the police tend to pull back for fear of being painted with the same brush as the bad cops in Minneapolis. And make no mistake, they were bad cops. That knock on effect is plainly visible in Baltimore and a few other large cities. 

Another knock on effect is the painting of all cops as bad and all whites as racist which is a blatant lie but if the media and race baiters say it enough, it will become fact/truth. 

And I’ll add something that many may thing think is controversial.... blacks, obviously not all, can be the biggest racists there are. There are white raciest and black racists... I don’t paint the entire population with that label.. but the media and race baiters will paint all whites as racist. 

And lastly.. I will not go anywhere without being armed (Not that I ever do anyway) and I’ve told my wife, who has an office in houston, to make sure she pays attention to gatherings/ protests and avoid any potential hot spots.


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## Mad Trapper

Slippy said:


> Does anybody know if a video exists that shows the events leading up to the video that shows Floyd on the ground with the cops knee on his neck?
> 
> That would be interesting to see.


The 4 cops/murderers are in deep shit with this one

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/new-video-shows-george-floyd-not-resisting-arrest-prior-death-police-officer/


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## AquaHull

The whole department will have to answer for that. One MN officer was shot trying to serve a eviction notice yesterday. I'm sure there will be a COVID-BLUE Flu showing up as MN burns.


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## StratMaster

Slippy said:


> Does anybody know if a video exists that shows the events leading up to the video that shows Floyd on the ground with the cops knee on his neck?
> 
> That would be interesting to see.


I looked for one, but couldn't find it. There does seem a BIG information hole her: where the perp is being walked, in handcuffs, to the car... everything cool as can be... and then we jump to him on his face with a knee on his neck. What occurred in between?


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## AquaHull

Body Cam footage is the answer , will release when done with edits .


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## Diver

Years ago, I maintained on this forum that Police have a major PR problem. Participants then did not like what I had to say. I still maintain that police have a major PR problem, for everything from incidents like this, to trying to close businesses based on a Governor's order with no enabling legislation, to thousands of SWAT raids against innocent people every year. I am glad to see the change that has taken place in this group in the years I have been away.


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## Kauboy

Diver said:


> Years ago, I maintained on this forum that Police have a major PR problem. Participants then did not like what I had to say. I still maintain that police have a major PR problem, for everything from incidents like this, to trying to close businesses based on a Governor's order with no enabling legislation, to thousands of SWAT raids against innocent people every year. I am glad to see the change that has taken place in this group in the years I have been away.


Save it. This is not a cop-bashing thread.
This is one incident that was clearly out of line. It is not indicative of all cops.


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## Diver

Years ago this forum would have been 100% supportive of the cop. I do not think "cop bashing" is appropriate, but I do think differing opinions should be aired and that is what I see happening here. I think that is a good thing and it shows the group has evolved. I maintain that police in general have a PR problem because of both incidents like this one, and the fact that cops have tended to not be removed despite obvious failures. Some of the posts here acknowledge that the MN police do have a problem, so at least some people are starting to get the point. Perhaps when a majority of this group gets to the point of acknowledging the problem, we can move on to discussing solutions.

and it is not "one incident". It is merely a current incident caught on film.


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## SOCOM42

The question I have about the incident is what caused them to take him down in the first place??

He might have flipped out while being put in the cruiser, a guy that big can be a problem even if cuffed.

I make no judgment in either direction without all the facts, and they are not present yet.

Firing the cops without a hearing was a political appeasement move to calm the natives, which it did not.

How many turds showed their gang signs while the places burned behind them???

I am glad I am not on the force here anymore, way to much BS.


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## Diver

SOCOM42 said:


> The question I have about the incident is what caused them to take him down in the first place??
> 
> He might have flipped out while being put in the cruiser, a guy that big can be a problem even if cuffed.
> 
> I make no judgment in either direction without all the facts, and they are not present yet.
> 
> Firing the cops without a hearing was a political appeasement move to calm the natives, which it did not.
> 
> How many turds showed their gang signs while the places burned behind them???
> 
> I am glad I am not on the force here anymore, way to much BS.


You have a good point and I hope the PD will soon release the bodycam footage that will resolve the question. Until then, people are going to believe the worst based on the footage that has been released. If the missing footage shows something favorable to the cops, it is in the best interest of the PD to release it ASAP.


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## Back Pack Hack

What bodycam footage? They were so busy dodging bullets they didn't have time to turn them on... what with all the life-and-death struggles going on.


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## Diver

Back Pack Hack said:


> What bodycam footage? They were so busy dodging bullets they didn't have time to turn them on... what with all the life-and-death struggles going on.


To the best of my knowledge, there were no shots fired during the original incident. Furthermore, there is footage that shows the original contact being very non-violent. There should be bodycam footage any time the PD interacts with the public, so there should be 4 sets of footage from the beginning of the incident. If there is not footage, then they have another problem.


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## Kauboy

Diver said:


> Years ago this forum would have been 100% supportive of the cop. I do not think "cop bashing" is appropriate, but I do think differing opinions should be aired and that is what I see happening here. I think that is a good thing and it shows the group has evolved. I maintain that police in general have a PR problem because of both incidents like this one, and the fact that cops have tended to not be removed despite obvious failures. Some of the posts here acknowledge that the MN police do have a problem, so at least some people are starting to get the point. Perhaps when a majority of this group gets to the point of acknowledging the problem, we can move on to discussing solutions.
> 
> and it is not "one incident". It is merely a current incident caught on film.


Again, save your cop-hating comments for another forum.
Stop the asinine assumptions about what we would have done. Half of us were around then, we haven't changed. We support law enforcement in their legal pursuit of justice. We will not turn a blind eye to bad behavior, NOR will we assume a 10 second clip shows the whole story.
Yes, this is ONE incident. That's how these things should always be dealt with. Once incident at a time. Otherwise, we risk turning into you, where every action an officer takes is wrong and all cops are bad.
Each incident deserves fair investigation, period.

"This group" has always been consistent. In general, cops are good. Bad behavior is called out. Our opinions are not swayed by the mob or social justice outcries.
"The problem" is, and has always been, knee-jerk reactions and assumptions made by ignorant people. When *that* group stops the insanity, we can start to get a clearer picture of the real world.


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## Diver

Kauboy said:


> Again, save your cop-hating comments for another forum.
> Stop the asinine assumptions about what we would have done. Half of us were around then, we haven't changed. We support law enforcement in their legal pursuit of justice. We will not turn a blind eye to bad behavior, NOR will we assume a 10 second clip shows the whole story.
> Yes, this is ONE incident. That's how these things should always be dealt with. Once incident at a time. Otherwise, we risk turning into you, where every action an officer takes is wrong and all cops are bad.
> Each incident deserves fair investigation, period.
> 
> "This group" has always been consistent. In general, cops are good. Bad behavior is called out. Our opinions are not swayed by the mob or social justice outcries.
> "The problem" is, and has always been, knee-jerk reactions and assumptions made by ignorant people. When *that* group stops the insanity, we can start to get a clearer picture of the real world.


I have not said anything that should be construed as "cop hating". I have said, and continue to say that police have a PR problem. Bad behavior is frequently not called out, and until it is, bad cops will continue to damage community relations broadly.

Are you actually maintaining that MN police have good community relations? LOL


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## Kauboy

Diver said:


> I have not said anything that should be construed as "cop hating". I have said, and continue to say that police have a PR problem. Bad behavior is frequently not called out, and until it is, bad cops will continue to damage community relations broadly.
> 
> Are you actually maintaining that MN police have good community relations? LOL


I'm maintaining that all incidents should be considered as standalone situations. You however, generalize all cops as having "PR problems", which is just a veiled attack intended to undermine all officer actions.
Bad behavior is often called out. However, far too many officer interactions are immediately considered "bad" by idiots who jump to conclusions before facts are known. THAT is what we seek to avoid here.

Case in point, we have a few minutes of video showing Mr. Floyd's arrest. It ends with the initial contact officers leading him to their patrol car at the edge of the screen. We don't see him put into the car.
Then we have a cell phone video showing an officer using what appears to be extended excessive force against Mr. Floyd who is already on the ground, still handcuffed. Using one's knee when pinning a detained person is supposed to be used on the shoulder or back, not the neck. Pinning on the neck is against protocol. The officers are CLEARLY in violation of protocol, and caused the man's death as a result. Murder requires intent to kill. With the facts known at this time, they did not intend for the man to die. At minimum, this is absolutely homicide, and deserves charges.
However, I must ask what happened between these two videos? It will not justify the ~8 minutes of excessive force against a downed and cuffed individual. But it is missing information, and that means we don't have all the details.
Maybe that missing time reveals intent to kill. Maybe it adds new information. Maybe it doesn't.

Can you see how that is a FAIR assessment of the situation?

With all officers involved being fired, we can make two assumptions.
1. The command chain reviewed all information, likely including body cam footage, and found the officers to be at fault
2. The department/city wanted to avoid incident, and took action against the officers in spite of not having all the facts, or had the facts, and still chose to fire them to appease the mob (didn't work)

BTW, law enforcement officers are not Personal Relationship agents. Saying they have a "PR problem" is nonsense. Their role is not to maintain fictional PR that is completely subjective, varying person to person. Their role is to enforce the law. Stop attributing unrelated characteristics to them, and then jumping on them for not meeting your expectations.


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## Diver

Kauboy said:


> I'm maintaining that all incidents should be considered as standalone situations. You however, generalize all cops as having "PR problems", which is just a veiled attack intended to undermine all officer actions.
> Bad behavior is often called out. However, far too many officer interactions are immediately considered "bad" by idiots who jump to conclusions before facts are known. THAT is what we seek to avoid here.
> 
> Case in point, we have a few minutes of video showing Mr. Floyd's arrest. It ends with the initial contact officers leading him to their patrol car at the edge of the screen. We don't see him put into the car.
> Then we have a cell phone video showing an officer using what appears to be extended excessive force against Mr. Floyd who is already on the ground, still handcuffed. Using one's knee when pinning a detained person is supposed to be used on the shoulder or back, not the neck. Pinning on the neck is against protocol. The officers are CLEARLY in violation of protocol, and caused the man's death as a result. Murder requires intent to kill. With the facts known at this time, they did not intend for the man to die. At minimum, this is absolutely homicide, and deserves charges.
> However, I must ask what happened between these two videos? It will not justify the ~8 minutes of excessive force against a downed and cuffed individual. But it is missing information, and that means we don't have all the details.
> Maybe that missing time reveals intent to kill. Maybe it adds new information. Maybe it doesn't.
> 
> Can you see how that is a FAIR assessment of the situation?
> 
> With all officers involved being fired, we can make two assumptions.
> 1. The command chain reviewed all information, likely including body cam footage, and found the officers to be at fault
> 2. The department/city wanted to avoid incident, and took action against the officers in spite of not having all the facts, or had the facts, and still chose to fire them to appease the mob (didn't work)
> 
> BTW, law enforcement officers are not Personal Relationship agents. Saying they have a "PR problem" is nonsense. Their role is not to maintain fictional PR that is completely subjective, varying person to person. Their role is to enforce the law. Stop attributing unrelated characteristics to them, and then jumping on them for not meeting your expectations.


You are deliberately misinterpreting my comments. Perhaps all incidents should be considered as standalone situations, but the fact is people have interactions with police every day and if they walk away from those incidents feeling they have been treated unfairly, they are going to walk away not trusting police in general. If police ignore this reality, they should not be surprised to find their community no longer trusts them. People do generalize. That is reality.


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## Back Pack Hack

Diver said:


> To the best of my knowledge, there were no shots fired during the original incident. Furthermore, there is footage that shows the original contact being very non-violent. There should be bodycam footage any time the PD interacts with the public, so there should be 4 sets of footage from the beginning of the incident. If there is not footage, then they have another problem.


You missed the facetiousness. They've already made several inaccurate claims about the incident, only to be called out by videos.

What usually happens is, instead of being totally transparent, they send any footage from the bodycams over through Internal Affairs, the PIO and legal counsel. If there's anything in it/them that could possibly be used against them, they either withhold the footage, claiming it's 'privileged', or it mysteriously disappears.... or some crap about how the cameras were never turned on or the files were corrupted or the cameras malfunctioned....


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## Smitty901

What I want to see is the LEO receive the same treatment demanded by the thug in Milwuakee that guns down 3 people then claims I didnt doo nothn. Until the officer or officers have their day in court, give them thier right same as anyone. Murder in Milwuakee is up 140% most of it black on black. Not a word for anyone. Most of those caught will do little to no times and they are not even looking for most of the killers.

A large number of black arrested start scereaming making a scene. I can't breath, somebody video this they haten , They beating help help. banging their head on the car ect. So I will wait and see . I do not think anyone charged will have a fair day in court.


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## Redneck

Smitty901 said:


> What I want to see is the LEO receive the same treatment demanded by the thug in Milwuakee that guns down 3 people then claims I didnt doo nothn. Until the officer or officers have their day in court, give them thier right same as anyone.


Of course they will have their Constitutional rights protected. Too bad they didn't protect the rights of the fellow they killed on camera.


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## Kauboy

Diver said:


> You are deliberately misinterpreting my comments. Perhaps all incidents should be considered as standalone situations, but the fact is people have interactions with police every day and if they walk away from those incidents feeling they have been treated unfairly, they are going to walk away not trusting police in general. If police ignore this reality, they should not be surprised to find their community no longer trusts them. People do generalize. That is reality.


I don't give a rat's ass how people "feel" when they walk away from a police interaction.
I care about the facts of the interaction.
Everybody thinks they're being treated unfairly when a figure of authority calls out a misdeed. Human nature is to deny responsibility to avoid hardship. It literally happens in every kind of interaction you can imagine.
Whining about how it made you feel is pointless. If a court determines you broke the law, you broke the law. If a court determines you didn't, you could potentially get a big payday.
Follow an officer's orders, and he has no reason to use force against you. Comply, and wait for your day in court.
We don't have footage between this man being walked away from the initial scene, and the cell phone video with him on the ground. It would be a fairly safe prediction to say he didn't comply, but I'm not putting money on it. We know the officer used excessive force, so we must leave open the possibility that they threw him down and chose to kill him. Until there is evidence of this, however, all we can see is negligent homicide.


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## Back Pack Hack

Kauboy said:


> ........We don't have footage between this man being walked away from the initial scene,...........


Yes we do.


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## Kauboy

Back Pack Hack said:


> Yes we do.


Did you bother to watch that?
He was walked away, lead to a patrol car in the upper corner of the screen as I described, and then it ends. That's exactly what I was referring to.
Show me the clip where he was forced to the ground.


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## SOCOM42

It is now being reported that the arrest was for passing funny money at a deli.


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## Kauboy

According to the officer standing guard while his partner ended this man's life, Mr. Floyd resisted getting into the patrol car "for 10 minutes".
We don't have that footage.
Not that it would likely change much, but could show officer intent.

Improper application of immobilization techniques, and an officer's lack of regard for the well-being of those in their custody, lead to this man's death.
Tragic, and completely avoidable.


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## Rellgar

You can see floyd resisting at the very end of the video, the last 2 seconds when they were putting him in the car. It was deliberately ended there, so it would not show the 10 minute struggle resisting the arrest. This was done to maximize the rioting. That explains the motive of the police. Floyd died at the hospital, not under the knee of the cop. What the officer did, may have been improper, even though it is said to be an acceptable procedure of that police department. I would wait for the autopsy and cause of death. I believe many will be surprised by it.


----------



## Diver

Kauboy said:


> I don't give a rat's ass how people "feel" when they walk away from a police interaction.
> I care about the facts of the interaction.
> Everybody thinks they're being treated unfairly when a figure of authority calls out a misdeed. Human nature is to deny responsibility to avoid hardship. It literally happens in every kind of interaction you can imagine.
> Whining about how it made you feel is pointless. If a court determines you broke the law, you broke the law. If a court determines you didn't, you could potentially get a big payday.
> Follow an officer's orders, and he has no reason to use force against you. Comply, and wait for your day in court.
> We don't have footage between this man being walked away from the initial scene, and the cell phone video with him on the ground. It would be a fairly safe prediction to say he didn't comply, but I'm not putting money on it. We know the officer used excessive force, so we must leave open the possibility that they threw him down and chose to kill him. Until there is evidence of this, however, all we can see is negligent homicide.


I have no idea what bodycam footage will ultimately appear, but it would be best for the cops involved, not to mention the city as a whole, if some exculpatory footage appeared before the city suffers further destruction. Not releasing footage is a PR mistake.

I take it you don't think that police need public support? They obviously don't have it in MN. How is that working out? How much of the city has to burn before you get the idea that PR matters?


----------



## Kauboy

Rellgar said:


> You can see floyd resisting at the very end of the video, the last 2 seconds when they were putting him in the car. It was deliberately ended there, so it would not show the 10 minute struggle resisting the arrest. This was done to maximize the rioting. That explains the motive of the police. Floyd died at the hospital, not under the knee of the cop. What the officer did, may have been improper, even though it is said to be an acceptable procedure of that police department. I would wait for the autopsy and cause of death. I believe many will be surprised by it.


The other officer mentioned Mr. Floyd could have been under the effects of an overdose. No clue if that's true, or a CYA line. If we get the autopsy, that should clear it up.
Is that why they called the ambulance before the death?
Did he get injured at some point, so they called the bus, but by the time it arrived he was dead?

So many questions in that missing time.


----------



## Kauboy

Diver said:


> I have no idea what bodycam footage will ultimately appear, but it would be best for the cops involved, not to mention the city as a whole, if some exculpatory footage appeared before the city suffers further destruction. Not releasing footage is a PR mistake.
> 
> I take it you don't think that police need public support? They obviously don't have it in MN. How is that working out? How much of the city has to burn before you get the idea that PR matters?


How long before you understand that PR is subjective?
You can't please people who don't want to be pleased. That's why so many incidents of "police brutality" go viral online, just to later be disproved.
People don't like cops. It's akin to racism. They assume too much, apply stereotypes to the group, and justify ill-will toward all of them based on the actions of a few. That's what you're doing.

BTW, there was a body cam vid released, but it was of an officer from across the street, mostly inaudible, and adds nothing to the facts. I have a feeling that might be the only thing we ever get.
lain:


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Kauboy said:


> Did you bother to watch that?
> He was walked away, lead to a patrol car in the upper corner of the screen as I described, and then it ends. That's exactly what I was referring to.
> Show me the clip where he was forced to the ground.


You said there's no video showing him being walked away from the scene. That is _exactly_ what it shown.


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Kauboy said:


> According to the officer standing guard while his partner ended this man's life, Mr. Floyd resisted getting into the patrol car "for 10 minutes".
> .........


Of which....... he's on the ground for at least 7½ of it.


----------



## Kauboy

Back Pack Hack said:


> You said there's no video showing him being walked away from the scene. That is _exactly_ what it shown.


Incorrect... You quoted me, and didn't even read the quote.
I stated "We don't have footage *between* this man being walked away from the initial scene, and the cell phone video with him on the ground."

We have initial contact. We have detainment. We have walking to the patrol car. We have cell phone footage of him on the ground pinned at the neck by an officer's knee.
Can you spot the gap?


----------



## Kauboy

Back Pack Hack said:


> Of which....... he's on the ground for at least 7½ of it.


You have secret evidence of the events that took place between his nearing the patrol car, and then being on the ground, and know how long that took?
That's amazing. Please share!


----------



## bigwheel

Well I stand corrected. Watched the video. The cop did intentionally kill the guy. Now why I dont have a clue. If the state dont give him the needle the Feds will. The crowd wants blood and free shopping. Cops are the only profession on earth that can expect double jeopardy on anything involving black folks..homos..earth worshippers..witches...booger bears etc.


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Kauboy said:


> Incorrect... You quoted me, and didn't even read the quote.
> I stated "We don't have footage *between* this man being walked away from the initial scene, and the cell phone video with him on the ground."
> 
> We have initial contact. We have detainment. We have walking to the patrol car. We have cell phone footage of him on the ground pinned at the neck by an officer's knee.
> Can you spot the gap?


OK. You win.


----------



## Diver

Kauboy said:


> How long before you understand that PR is subjective?
> You can't please people who don't want to be pleased. That's why so many incidents of "police brutality" go viral online, just to later be disproved.
> People don't like cops. It's akin to racism. They assume too much, apply stereotypes to the group, and justify ill-will toward all of them based on the actions of a few. That's what you're doing.
> 
> BTW, there was a body cam vid released, but it was of an officer from across the street, mostly inaudible, and adds nothing to the facts. I have a feeling that might be the only thing we ever get.
> lain:


Yes, PR is subjective, but in this country we are supposed to be free, which means that government is with the consent of the governed. I think it is safe to say that the police in MN no longer have the consent of the governed. They may not need it from every individual, but they do need it from the people in general.


----------



## T-Man 1066

Ok. I am not a cop. But let's think this through. Cops know they have massive amounts of scrutiny, with legal repercussions. And you have to wear a camera. And all your fellow cops (co-workers) also wear a body cam. And every hon-yak on the street carries a cam in their cell phone, and a platform (internet) to broadcast it. Now this boogy acting a fool, sure. Piss off the cop, sure. But the cop intentionally killed him? Get a new idea. This is all race war fodder, amplified.


----------



## Kauboy

Diver said:


> Yes, PR is subjective, but in this country we are supposed to be free, which means that government is with the consent of the governed. I think it is safe to say that the police in MN no longer have the consent of the governed. They may not need it from every individual, but they do need it from the people in general.


Fair enough. The people of MN clearly have a bad situation on their hands.

I'm only claiming that it cannot be the primary focus of law enforcement to please everyone. They still have an important job to do, and the job necessitates difficult circumstances. They should not be made to feel that they are powerless to stop crime for the sake of people's feelings.


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> Fair enough. The people of MN clearly have a bad situation on their hands.
> 
> I'm only claiming that it cannot be the primary focus of law enforcement to please everyone. They still have an important job to do, and the job necessitates difficult circumstances. They should not be made to feel that they are powerless to stop crime for the sake of people's feelings.


The best PR a department can have is properly trained professionals who are empathetic with the community and realize everyone should be treated with respect. That's PR that costs nothing and can save lives.


----------



## Diver

Kauboy said:


> Fair enough. The people of MN clearly have a bad situation on their hands.
> 
> I'm only claiming that it cannot be the primary focus of law enforcement to please everyone. They still have an important job to do, and the job necessitates difficult circumstances. They should not be made to feel that they are powerless to stop crime for the sake of people's feelings.


Nobody is saying they have to please everyone, but if they piss off the public at large, they are going to be in a situation like they are today, at best. I maintain that many police, e.g. LA, St. Louis, Baltimore, Minneapolis, have failed miserably at keeping the trust of the public. Getting trust back is going to look like a twelve step program, i.e. first admit you have a problem.


----------



## Diver

Denton said:


> The best PR a department can have is properly trained professionals who are empathetic with the community and realize everyone should be treated with respect. That's PR that costs nothing and can save lives.


Exactly. Unfortunately, the PDs in cities from LA, to St. Louis, to Baltimore, to MN don't seem to get it. We get to watch the results on our TVs.


----------



## StratMaster

Kauboy said:


> Incorrect... You quoted me, and didn't even read the quote.
> I stated "We don't have footage *between* this man being walked away from the initial scene, and the cell phone video with him on the ground."
> 
> We have initial contact. We have detainment. We have walking to the patrol car. We have cell phone footage of him on the ground pinned at the neck by an officer's knee.
> Can you spot the gap?


Which is what I keep saying. Text reports indicate he fought those officers hard for 10 minutes in that "gap". The media being what it is nowadays, this is likely to have been INTENTIONALLY excluded. I will withhold judgement until I see:
1) that missing time on video
2) a coroner's cause of death (because I'm also hearing he possibly died LATER in the hospital, not there on the ground). 
This was going to be a race baiting, explosive story regardless. The story was spun to allow no other interpretations... and if you offered one you are of course "racist". I am willing to wait and see. A white homeless man died under very VERY similar circumstances, but THAT story got no play. Not useful in drumming up riots I suppose. If this man died as a result of these officers, then I will also need to see proof that it was with INTENT, and due to RACISM. Because it's also likely it was out of simple stupidity and mishandling. Either way, those cops will have to face the music. But the tune has yet to be determined. To sum up: I don't automatically accept a narrative spoon fed to me by the media. Sure looks bad the way it is presented. But I want ALL the information. If it hangs them, so be it.


----------



## Bigfoot63

I am a retired peace officer and I am tired of seeing shite like this time and time again. I remember coming out of the academy with officers (and I use the term loosely) that stated they were hoping someone would get stupid so that they could beat down some prisoner scum. So many times the bodies that manage to graduate and take post are so unfit to serve in any capacity. So glad to be retired. So sorry to hear that another person has fallen victim to a bad judgement decision or worst a power trip.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

How long does it take to look at 4 body cams footage, if there is/ was exculpatory evidence they would have been smart to release it asap. Bad situation to be in.


----------



## Camel923

This was a tragedy that did not need to happen. All over a counterfeit $20? Really? George Floyd has his good and bad sides as we all do. He played college football, had a daughter, worked two jobs but was unemployed because of the Chinese virus. He also did a stretch for a home invasion. I do not know all the facts but to end up dead over a fake twenty and I have seen no facts that Floyd knew it was fake Is horrible. The officers watching could have intervened. I also understand the EMTs had to ask the cop To get off his neck so they could put him on a stretcher. If I am not mistaken that was Three minutes after Floyd stoped moving. Apparent Poor training and indifference by the officers. This needs a public investigation and a trial to hold those responsible accountable if found guilty.

https://www.ajc.com/news/victim-pol...ed-new-life-minnesota/rMmT2wipeQFNnsypmh6oBL/

When peaceful protests for basic constitutional protections do not bring meaningful change people will riot. We have all witnessed peaceful and not so peaceful protests. The problem is the anger is misdirected. Government and the police are part of government are the ones that should get the brunt of the anger. Burning and looting stores in your own neighborhood is not going to improve your quality of life and ultimately takes the focus from the real issues. JMHO.


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> The best PR a department can have is properly trained professionals who are empathetic with the community and realize everyone should be treated with respect. That's PR that costs nothing and can save lives.


I agree. Professionalism is what is needed.
What we will get, however, is hogtied police that will be more worried about the reaction their duties will incite instead of doing their job to the best of their ability. There will be demands for more oversight, more investigation, more "sensitivity training", and expectations made of law enforcement that are honestly beyond the bounds of what that profession entails.

I can't imagine working a job where I had to stop violent people, inject myself into volatile situations, settle disputes, run toward danger, carry a gun for protection and lawful force, wear a camera that records everything I do, document everything I do daily, get tracked everywhere I go, and have a constant committee of oversight combing through my every action... all for a crappy paycheck, the promise of a pension, and the daily threat of death.
And to top it off, every time a member of the force does something stupid, the magnifying glass gets bigger, and the oversight committee grows.

These men did wrong. The rest of law enforcement will suffer as a result, and many will just give up entirely. Nobody with good judgement will want to enter such a role, and you'll only end up scraping farther down the barrel to fill positions.
Or departments will close.


----------



## StratMaster

Kauboy said:


> These men did wrong. The rest of law enforcement will suffer as a result, and many will just give up entirely. Nobody with good judgement will want to enter such a role, and you'll only end up scraping farther down the barrel to fill positions.
> Or departments will close.


Up north from me in Stumptown (Portland, the ANTIFA epicenter) they can't FIND anyone to fill positions in the department. I understand it is approaching a crisis, this shortage of officers. No takers. Due to this, and the fact that the mayor protects the thugs, and the oversight committees crucify the cops, the neighboring municipalities have ENDED their agreements to come into Portland and help when needed.


----------



## Bigfoot63

This is the problem, power corrupts the minds of the weak and perceived victimized . Hard pattern to break. Sad very sad only!


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> I agree. Professionalism is what is needed.
> What we will get, however, is hogtied police that will be more worried about the reaction their duties will incite instead of doing their job to the best of their ability. There will be demands for more oversight, more investigation, more "sensitivity training", and expectations made of law enforcement that are honestly beyond the bounds of what that profession entails.
> 
> I can't imagine working a job where I had to stop violent people, inject myself into volatile situations, settle disputes, run toward danger, carry a gun for protection and lawful force, wear a camera that records everything I do, document everything I do daily, get tracked everywhere I go, and have a constant committee of oversight combing through my every action... all for a crappy paycheck, the promise of a pension, and the daily threat of death.
> And to top it off, every time a member of the force does something stupid, the magnifying glass gets bigger, and the oversight committee grows.
> 
> These men did wrong. The rest of law enforcement will suffer as a result, and many will just give up entirely. Nobody with good judgement will want to enter such a role, and you'll only end up scraping farther down the barrel to fill positions.
> Or departments will close.


Ever worked law enforcement?


----------



## Denton

Ever been in a department? Ever been in the break room? Ever felt the influence of the chain of command of a P.D.? Understand the subcultures within a department?

I've enjoyed the thoughts of those who have no idea. It's been enlightening.

Me? Between my military and civilian days, I've seen days from everything from dispatcher to corrections, patrolman to special reactions. Oh, and dog handling, which is an important thing. Attitude runs up and down the leash, as attiude runs up and down the chain of command. 

Picking up what I am putting down?


----------



## Smitty901

******* said:


> Of course they will have their Constitutional rights protected. Too bad they didn't protect the rights of the fellow they killed on camera.


 No their rights will not be. they are already convicted and evidence is already being rigged against them. turn this around white dead guy black office different set of rules.


----------



## jimcosta

*Excellent Questions To Ponder.*

JIM STONE busts MINNEAPOLIS: COP AND DECEASED WORKED SECURITY TOGETHER, THIS WAS ALL AN ACT, while RIOTS ARE STEERED FROM VANCOUVER CA.

https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=147688

*My personal comments:* When I first saw the killing video several days ago my first thought was that the paramedics were not real.
Paramedics are trained to take control of the patient, bring a bag of tools, tend to the patient to determine the needs, etc. None of this happened. There wasn't even an ambulance siren.
The medics acted like they already knew he was dead when they arrived on the scene as though they were from the morgue.
Why did the cops drag the man to a stretcher instead of the medics loading him?

Video:
https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=147574


----------



## stevekozak

jimcosta said:


> *Excellent Questions To Ponder.*
> 
> JIM STONE busts MINNEAPOLIS: COP AND DECEASED WORKED SECURITY TOGETHER, THIS WAS ALL AN ACT, while RIOTS ARE STEERED FROM VANCOUVER CA.
> 
> https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=147688
> 
> *My personal comments:* When I first saw the killing video several days ago my first thought was that the paramedics were not real.
> Paramedics are trained to take control of the patient, bring a bag of tools, tend to the patient to determine the needs, etc. None of this happened.
> They acted like they already knew he was dead when they arrived on the scene as though they were from the morgue.
> Why did the cops drag the man to a stretcher instead of the medics loading him?
> 
> Video:
> https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=147574


Wow! You have acquired a level of paranoia that I, with all my study and natural instincts, have failed to achieve!! Honestly, I am impressed. :vs_whistle:


----------



## jimcosta

Thank you Steve. It's called critical thinking, or the older term, Think For Yourself, especially in a world of lies.
Critical thinking means to question everything.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Along with "Critical thinking" comes don't jump to conclusions. We only saw what they wanted us to see.


----------



## jimcosta

*My challenge:* For those that think I am paranoid I will offer this:

First I have not read Stone's article as I am rushing out for the morning. That is why I made my personal comments only.
I will admit I am paranoid if you two will watch the last two minutes of the video and state here that those are the medics that you want to rescue you from a life threatening situation. Fair enough?


----------



## 1skrewsloose

How do we know the medics were not told he's gone but come and pick him up?


----------



## Diver

What is missing here is any thought to what needs to change, so that cities don't riot when something bad happens, especially on camera. Here are my thoughts:

1) Dramatically reduce SWAT. There is nothing like an armed home invasion to annoy the locals. Teach cops to have some respect for people in their homes. There are too many stories of harm coming to children, dogs and property to not expect blowback.
2) Get warrants. Too much that goes wrong is done without a warrant. A search without a warrant is a violation of civil rights and a lawsuit waiting to happen.
3) When the police get it wrong, apologize. Ever had a cop apologize for wasting your time or damage he caused, or simple disrespect? Me neither. Furthermore, pay for damages caused. Broke down a door? Pay for it. Lawyer fees when police lose the case, etc.
4) Teach cops about basic civil rights. People do have the right to film, to carry weapons, to not answer questions, and to not identify themselves.
5) Be very slow to escalate to handcuffs. The moment handcuffs go on, the cops are totally responsible for that person's safety.
6) Fewer police. We have too many cops chasing stupid crimes. Putting people in handcuffs and arresting people for not social distancing? Time for a reduction in force.
7) The cops need to be respectful. It should be taught in the Academy and reinforced through the disciplinary process. Got a cop on film swearing at somebody? He needs serious discipline.

Other suggestions welcome.


----------



## StratMaster

1skrewsloose said:


> How do we know the medics were not told he's gone but come and pick him up?


We don't know SQUAT, which I think is the point you are making. Only what scraps are revealed by a biased media with a history of obfuscating and twisting the facts for an agenda. I read he fought those officers HARD in the video gap in between... for ten minutes. AND that he died at the hospital, NOT on the ground. Portions are MISSING. "Critical thinking" is often a term utilized as if it somehow bolsters an unwarranted, unjustified, and unsubstantiated position. "Critical thinking" would REQUIRE one to WITHHOLD judgement until ALL information is available. Body cam footage. MISSING video footage BETWEEN the walkback and a man on the ground. A coroners report. You know... FACTS. Until then, it is unsubstantiated assumptions and contrivances. We don't KNOW a thing... we know what was partially revealed to maybe build a volatile narrative. I'm more than willing to say "I do not know as of yet" rather than jump to a conclusion. I want ALL the facts. Call me crazy.


----------



## Smitty901

Now they are threatening to burn Milwaukee. Well if they want to burn the place they will hold DNC convention I will offer a match to use.
It does not madder what LE does. Riots and burning is going to happen. It works for an agenda . They get a payday. DA's stops locking up really bad people LE lets them on the streets to avoid charges. Judges let serious crimes off to avoid blow back.


----------



## Diver

Smitty901 said:


> Now they are threatening to burn Milwaukee. Well if they want to burn the place they will hold DNC convention I will offer a match to use.
> It does not madder what LE does. Riots and burning is going to happen. It works for an agenda . They get a payday. DA's stops locking up really bad people LE lets them on the streets to avoid charges. Judges let serious crimes off to avoid blow back.


I disagree. It does matter what LE does. What have they actually done to improve community relations, there or in any other big city? I saw a news story this morning about cops going undercover to enforce social distancing rules. That's going to win a lot of friends. How about a little common sense by law enforcement?


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> Ever worked law enforcement?


You quoted me, so I assume you read the line "I can't imagine working a job where..."
No, I've never worked in law enforcement. I've only had the pleasure of my friends who do telling me all they've had to deal with. I personally know the officer from Fort Worth PD who was involved in that falsely labeled "racist" incident 2 years ago where he arrested a black woman and her daughter for their behavior when he arrived on scene to sort out a dispute involving her son trespassing and littering.
A family friend who's an officer has been shot at, in the dark, while pursuing a suspect nobody knew was armed. That rocked his world, and I had to watch him deal with it.
I'm close personal friends with our city's fire marshal.
I'm good friends with the officer that works security at our church.
If you think I'm talking out my ass, you'd be wrong.
I know what these men deal with on a regular basis.

So, what was it I said that you didn't appreciate, or feel I didn't understand?
What exactly are you "putting down"?


----------



## RedLion

Minneapolis is getting just what it deserves. Continue electing leftist turds, fanning the flames of fake racism and encouraging a culture of being a victim and you end up with the shit storm in Minneapolis. My VA Clinic is right downtown Minneapolis and we have closed it down and going to board it up today. I am pleased that I am teleworking from home this week and the next couple. A lot of out of state George Soros agitators are here and the main force behind the riots.


----------



## Piratesailor

Burn the community you live in.. yup.. makes sense.


----------



## Piratesailor

I was just thinking about the riots and will make an observation. Contrast this:

Last year the houston police executed a no-knock raid on a house. The couple living in the house thought there was a house invasion and shot back. Even the dogs went after the attacker. The police killed both dogs and the couple, who happen to be white. They were poor white and lived in a very marginal area of houston that was Mexican and black. Not a good part of town. 

It was very soon after discovered that the raid was bogus, the bad cops fabricated information for the warrant and the couple were in fact guilty of nothing except protecting they’re house and lives. This information came out very soon after the murders and they were indeed murders. The bad cop had a very negative history and should have been removed from the force in the 90’s. I think he’s now in jail. 

So, white couple, very poor and bad neighborhood, target by a bad cop, murdered trying to defend themselves (even the dogs were killed)...

And the riots ensues..... NOT.

Contract that with Minneapolis 

Food for thought.


----------



## Diver

Piratesailor said:


> I was just thinking about the riots and will make an observation. Contrast this:
> 
> Last year the houston police executed a no-knock raid on a house. The couple living in the house thought there was a house invasion and shot back. Even the dogs went after the attacker. The police killed both dogs and the couple, who happen to be white. They were poor white and lived in a very marginal area of houston that was Mexican and black. Not a good part of town.
> 
> It was very soon after discovered that the raid was bogus, the bad cops fabricated information for the warrant and the couple were in fact guilty of nothing except protecting they're house and lives. This information came out very soon after the murders and they were indeed murders. The bad cop had a very negative history and should have been removed from the force in the 90's. I think he's now in jail.
> 
> So, white couple, very poor and bad neighborhood, target by a bad cop, murdered trying to defend themselves (even the dogs were killed)...
> 
> And the riots ensues..... NOT.
> 
> Contract that with Minneapolis
> 
> Food for thought.


Your argument would be better once the cops involved are under arrest.


----------



## Robie

Culture.

Draw your own conclusions.


----------



## Mad Trapper

There seems to be another, short bystander video that has surfaced showing another angle as Floyd's neck was being compressed.

There are the two , other officers, either also kneeling on, or at least kneeling next to, also holding Floyd down. Floyd posed no danger to anyone.


----------



## RedLion

Piratesailor said:


> Burn the community you live in.. yup.. makes sense.


Actually it is outsiders (from out of state and not from Minneapolis) that are creating the destruction and violence. Locals, business owners and citizens, are pissed that this is going on. Downtown Minneapolis is more white liberal prick than it is black and minority. "They" have started taking back downtown and pushing the scum out to the suburbs.
Word is that there are a lot more lefty professional scumbags coming into Minneapolis as I type to create big trouble this weekend.


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> You quoted me, so I assume you read the line "I can't imagine working a job where..."
> No, I've never worked in law enforcement. I've only had the pleasure of my friends who do telling me all they've had to deal with. I personally know the officer from Fort Worth PD who was involved in that falsely labeled "racist" incident 2 years ago where he arrested a black woman and her daughter for their behavior when he arrived on scene to sort out a dispute involving her son trespassing and littering.
> A family friend who's an officer has been shot at, in the dark, while pursuing a suspect nobody knew was armed. That rocked his world, and I had to watch him deal with it.
> I'm close personal friends with our city's fire marshal.
> I'm good friends with the officer that works security at our church.
> If you think I'm talking out my ass, you'd be wrong.
> I know what these men deal with on a regular basis.
> 
> So, what was it I said that you didn't appreciate, or feel I didn't understand?
> What exactly are you "putting down"?


What did you say that I didn't appreciate? Have you noticed that you are always looking to argue? Did you ever think I was looking to commiserate with you?

Never mind. Anyway, you knowing people certainly trumps any personal experience I had. This crap is tiresome.


----------



## Smitty901

Diver said:


> I disagree. It does matter what LE does. What have they actually done to improve community relations, there or in any other big city? I saw a news story this morning about cops going undercover to enforce social distancing rules. That's going to win a lot of friends. How about a little common sense by law enforcement?


Yep murder is up 140%.


----------



## Diver

Smitty901 said:


> Yep murder is up 140%.


So solve a few murders. Start with George Floyd's.


----------



## Camel923

Now this is the way to get the attention of government when repeated peaceful protest has failed to achieve the protection of basic constitutional rights. Not that I advocate arson but if one is going to have to go to extremes because there is nothing left to loose, deliver the message to the right people. Maybe city hall will be next. Beats burning your own neighborhoods and stores.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapo...ce-station-set-on-fire-after-rioters-break-in


----------



## Diver

I just read that Chauvin has been arrested and charged with 3rd degree murder. No word on the other three cops yet.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Throw one cop under the bus to save the other 3? Look we fired 4 and pressed charges on one of them! See how impartial and and non-racial we are! So much BS I can't stand it. I don't approve of the rioting but something has to be done to get thru to these folks who talk out of both sides of their mouth.


----------



## Piratesailor

Diver said:


> Your argument would be better once the cops involved are under arrest.


My argument stands as stated. The officer was arrested. It took an investigation and a number of days to arrest the office in houston too.


----------



## Maine-Marine

While I disagree with burning the police station, I understand it

I can not understand burning stores and super markets


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> What did you say that I didn't appreciate? Have you noticed that you are always looking to argue? Did you ever think I was looking to commiserate with you?
> 
> Never mind. Anyway, you knowing people certainly trumps any personal experience I had. This crap is tiresome.


You questioned me. What was I supposed to think?
Generally, when someone calls another's history into question, they intend to demean their experience.
Then you commented "I've enjoyed the thoughts of those who have no idea. It's been enlightening." How was that supposed to be taken?
The bit about the folks I know was only to respond to the "no idea" line. Yes, I have an idea, but not firsthand.
I'm sure your personal experience gives you a certain perspective on this. I'm not trying to compare, only to reveal my own, albeit word of mouth only.

I'm not trying to argue. Perhaps text is just a terrible medium for expressing oneself properly. I read your post as passively aggressive. If that was in error, I apologize.


----------



## Kauboy

Diver said:


> I just read that Chauvin has been arrested and charged with 3rd degree murder. No word on the other three cops yet.


I had to go look up what "3rd degree murder" was, because I'd never heard of that charge.
Turns out, it's only a thing in 3 states, Minn. being one of them.


> Minnesota law originally defined third-degree murder solely as depraved-heart murder (*"without intent to effect the death of any person, caus[ing] the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life"*).[7][8] In 1987, an additional drug-related provision ("without intent to cause death, proximately caus[ing] the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II") was added to the definition of third-degree murder.[7][9] Up until the early 2000s, prosecutions under that provision were rare, but they began to rise in the 2010s. Some reports linked this increase in prosecutions to the opioid epidemic in the United States.[10]
> 
> Minnesota law also defines the crime of third-degree murder of an unborn child, with the same elements of depraved mind and lack of intent to kill distinguishing it from first- or second-degree murder of an unborn child.[11][12] Both third-degree murder and third-degree murder of an unborn child are punishable by a maximum of 25 years' imprisonment.[7][12]


Yup, sounds about right.
I don't know how I feel about the maximum 25 years though...


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> You questioned me. What was I supposed to think?
> Generally, when someone calls another's history into question, they intend to demean their experience.
> Then you commented "I've enjoyed the thoughts of those who have no idea. It's been enlightening." How was that supposed to be taken?
> The bit about the folks I know was only to respond to the "no idea" line. Yes, I have an idea, but not firsthand.
> I'm sure your personal experience gives you a certain perspective on this. I'm not trying to compare, only to reveal my own, albeit word of mouth only.
> 
> I'm not trying to argue. Perhaps text is just a terrible medium for expressing oneself properly. I read your post as passively aggressive. If that was in error, I apologize.


It's alright. All is good.


----------



## keith9365

Im not saying this article is true or false, just something to think about.
"The Floyd event was staged. I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist but hear me out. 
Staged Event? 
These officers were involved with something, I’m not sure exactly what, but something is just not adding up.
I think there is at the very least the “possibility”, that this was a filmed public execution of a black man by a white cop, with the purpose of creating racial tensions and driving a wedge in the growing group of anti deep state sentiment from comon people, that have already been psychologically traumatized by Covid 19 fears. 
Historically, in election years and in politically contested areas or in groups, racial or gun violence incidents are becoming common place. Considering the rising approval rating of President Trump in the black community, an event like this was unfortunately “Predictable”
Consider these points and contrast them to every other police brutality incident you've ever seen.
The filmed portion of the incident was about 10 minutes long. In that amount of time, three officers are holding one handcuffed man down. You only know that because of the pictures taken from across the street. You can't see the other two officers in the video because they are behind the vehicle. During 8 minutes of the entire video, the officer has his knee on George Floyd's neck, which is not taught or approved by any law enforcement agency. 
Additionally, other than the Asian officer speaking occasionally to the crowd of bystanders, there is no communication from any of the officers to Mr. Floyd. No talking, no shouting. When have you ever seen a police brutality video without police shouting?
Additionally, the police had no goal. They weren't trying to subdue him for arrest, he was already handcuffed and all they needed to do, was place him in the back of the car. There is no plausible explanation for taking him to the ground and having three men on top of a handcuffed man, a knee placed on his neck. Mr. Floyd presented no threat and was not resisting. The only goal that there appeared to be was exactly what happened: “To be filmed brutally killing a black man”. 
Think about this, these officers did not care about being filmed, in fact the officer stared into the camera with soulless eyes and an emotionless face, reminiscent of an assassin, as he knowingly killed an American Citizen.
None of the officers spoke among themselves or did they speak to Mr. Floyd. They did not respond to his pleas for life. They just sat and kneeled on him until he was passed out and then waited an additional 4 minutes after Mr. Floyd lost consciousness to ensure that Mr. Floyd was dead and could not be revived. 
The bystanders are verbally communicating to the officers, that he isn't breathing. Unlike any other similar incident, you never see the officers getting on police radios. You never see or hear them calling dispatch for backup. No other police units arrive on the scene and ￼strangely enough, the crowd does not seem to grow either.
The scene does not end until an ambulance arrives and they unceremoniously flop him on a gurney. At no point does anyone in a uniform ever check his vitals. “As if they aren't remotely curious about the situation they are in” BTW. who called the ambulance and for what reason? Because if the reason was that Mr. Floyd was having a medical issue, they wouldn't have still been crushing his neck. 
Shortly after the video went viral, a fake Facebook page supposedly belonging to the officer, at the center of the murder appears and pictures are uploaded that say "Stand your Ground" and "Trump 2020". A picture of the cop with a red ballcap that says "Make America White Again". A friends list populated with obvious sock accounts and people clearly not his friends. This is the same kind of fake Facebook stunt that happened with a group made to look like support for the men involved with the Ahmed Aubrey case.
Is it mere coincidence that this happens the week after “race” becomes a major political issue after the Biden "You ain't Black" gaffe, started to threaten the black vote the Democrats so desperately count on? 
Additionally, there is substantial video evidence to arrest at least one officer now. Why would the local authorities not charge him immediately, unless there was a political advantage not to! 
Is it mere coincidence that this happens right about the exact moment the COVID-19 fear campaign falls apart, and after it has psychologically traumatized the entire country and got everyone at each other's throats and suicide attempts are spiking? Is it mere coincidence that this happens after the Auhmed Aubrey case... Which somehow eluded the mainstream media completely until two whole months after he was killed? When has that ever happened? Timing issue? Is it mere coincidence that Supreme Race Baiter Obama was making videos a couple weeks ago connecting COVID with "Systemic Racism"?
FINALLY.... this entire scene plays out with the cop car and license plate that says "POLICE". The plate was perfectly framed for maximum subliminal impact. This also means he was literally just 1 foot away from the back seat of the police car and these cops thought it was smarter to kill a black man on camera, than to pick him up and move him one foot into the back of the police car.
You can draw your own conclusions, but this appears to have all the earmarks of George Soros. Please open your eyes!!!! 
Thanks to Chris Tanner for photo and research"



Aa


----------



## RedLion

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner just got officer Chauvin out of being convicted for murder with his findings.



> County Medical Examiner Finds "No Physical Findings that Support a Diagnosis of Traumatic Asphyxia or Strangulation" in George Floyd Death


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/wth-mn-county-medical-examiner-finds-no-physical-findings-support-diagnosis-traumatic-asphyxia-strangulation-george-floyd-death/

https://www.weaselzippers.us/449637-george-floyd-autopsy-shows-problem-for-prosecution-of-police-officer-charged-in-case/


----------



## keith9365

Photographs for article.


----------



## Diver

RedLion said:


> The Hennepin County Medical Examiner just got officer Chauvin out of being convicted for murder with his findings.
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/wth-mn-county-medical-examiner-finds-no-physical-findings-support-diagnosis-traumatic-asphyxia-strangulation-george-floyd-death/
> 
> https://www.weaselzippers.us/449637-george-floyd-autopsy-shows-problem-for-prosecution-of-police-officer-charged-in-case/


Police deal with people who have physical ailments or disabilities daily. They need to do that without killing them. If somebody dies in handcuffs with your knee on their neck, you are responsible. That's before we get into issues of whether the ME is correct. You can count on another autopsy, probably with different findings, done by the family in preparation for the civil suit that will follow.

EDIT: I just saw a headline that the family has hired a Dr. Michael Baden for their own autopsy.


----------



## Prepared One

Piratesailor said:


> My argument stands as stated. The officer was arrested. It took an investigation and a number of days to arrest the office in houston too.


I followed this story as well. I noticed poor white people here in Houston didn't rush into the streets stealing big screen TV's and burning Targets to the ground. No blacks or whites shouting police brutality, No Quanell X plastering his stupid face all over the news. Fun fact: More white men in this country are gunned down by police officers then black men.

Things that make you go Mmmmmmm.


----------



## Diver

Prepared One said:


> I followed this story as well. I noticed poor white people here in Houston didn't rush into the streets stealing big screen TV's and burning Targets to the ground. No blacks or whites shouting police brutality, No Quanell X plastering his stupid face all over the news. Fun fact: More white men in this country are gunned down by police officers then black men.
> 
> Things that make you go Mmmmmmm.


That would say to me that the police in Houston still have sufficient trust from the public to let the process play out, while in MN not so much.


----------



## RedLion

Diver said:


> That would say to me that the police in Houston still have sufficient trust from the public to let the process play out, while in MN not so much.


Don't group all Minnesotans or MN Police in with the Minneapolis liberals and Minneapolis Police.


----------



## stevekozak

Camel923 said:


> Now this is the way to get the attention of government when repeated peaceful protest has failed to achieve the protection of basic constitutional rights. Not that I advocate arson but if one is going to have to go to extremes because there is nothing left to loose, deliver the message to the right people. Maybe city hall will be next. Beats burning your own neighborhoods and stores.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapo...ce-station-set-on-fire-after-rioters-break-in


I think the police in that station would have been justified in shooting each and everyone of the rioters that entered and burned the place.


----------



## csi-tech

I am a former Sgt. A police supervisor. Today, I spoke with Captains, Lieutenants, Sergeants and a corporal. Everyone in the room agreed, had we pulled up on this we ALL would have tackled this asshole, drove him to the ground and handcuffed him. Putting the knee on the neck is lethal force all day long. Not taught or authorized (even remotely) in this instance. This rogue P.O.S. was pissed off. Pure and simple. I may even have shot him. So mad.


----------



## csi-tech

You cannot use lethal force against looters. I'd pepper spary, bean bag, pepper ball and taze the lot. You can't shoot someone for a property crime, period.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

csi-tech said:


> I am a former Sgt. A police supervisor. Today, I spoke with Captains, Lieutenants, Sergeants and a corporal. Everyone in the room agreed, had we pulled up on this we ALL would have tackled this asshole, drove him to the ground and handcuffed him. Putting the knee on the neck is lethal force all day long. Not taught or authorized (even remotely) in this instance. This rogue P.O.S. was pissed off. Pure and simple. I may even have shot him. So mad.


i do not know if it has already been mentioned, but this cop has a history of disciplinary actions against him.


----------



## stevekozak

csi-tech said:


> I am a former Sgt. A police supervisor. Today, I spoke with Captains, Lieutenants, Sergeants and a corporal. Everyone in the room agreed, had we pulled up on this we ALL would have tackled this asshole, drove him to the ground and handcuffed him. Putting the knee on the neck is lethal force all day long. Not taught or authorized (even remotely) in this instance. This rogue P.O.S. was pissed off. Pure and simple. I may even have shot him. So mad.


I said it much earlier, but I am going to say it again, I am not sure I am watching the same videos as everyone else. With your experience as a former LEO, and your examination of these videos, just how much pressure do you think this cop was putting on the perp's neck? When I watch the video, I see that head moving a lot. I hear very loud, rapid, and repeated statements from the perp that he is unable to breath (now, I have been unable to breath before, and I was incapable of shouting that I was unable to breathe). I look at the position of the cop's feet, knee, and legs, and the movements he makes with his body. These movements and positions do not suggest to me that he is putting much pressure down, but rather is maintaining a balance. I am, however, not LEO, have never been LEO, do not wish to be LEO, and would make a horrible LEO. So, I am asking you (and anyone else with such experience) to tell me how much pressure you think he is applying to the perp's neck, and how did you arrive at the conclusion that you did? I am not trying to be argumentative, I really am curious to know.


----------



## stevekozak

csi-tech said:


> You cannot use lethal force against looters. I'd pepper spary, bean bag, pepper ball and taze the lot. You can't shoot someone for a property crime, period.


Where? I don't think your statement is true in all states. I am also curious if police stations are just considered property, or would they be at least as defensible as a person's house that was being invaded and set afire? I would think that if a person came to my home and started trying to burn it down with me inside, I might have cause to believe he was trying to harm and even murder me. What are your thoughts on that?


----------



## stevekozak

rice paddy daddy said:


> i do not know if it has already been mentioned, but this cop has a history of disciplinary actions against him.


Do we know what sort of history the perp had against him? I think I saw somewhere there were 18 or so prior charges or arrests?


----------



## stevekozak

keith9365 said:


> Im not saying this article is true or false, just something to think about.
> "The Floyd event was staged. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist but hear me out.
> Staged Event?
> These officers were involved with something, I'm not sure exactly what, but something is just not adding up.
> I think there is at the very least the "possibility", that this was a filmed public execution of a black man by a white cop, with the purpose of creating racial tensions and driving a wedge in the growing group of anti deep state sentiment from comon people, that have already been psychologically traumatized by Covid 19 fears.
> Historically, in election years and in politically contested areas or in groups, racial or gun violence incidents are becoming common place. Considering the rising approval rating of President Trump in the black community, an event like this was unfortunately "Predictable"
> Consider these points and contrast them to every other police brutality incident you've ever seen.
> The filmed portion of the incident was about 10 minutes long. In that amount of time, three officers are holding one handcuffed man down. You only know that because of the pictures taken from across the street. You can't see the other two officers in the video because they are behind the vehicle. During 8 minutes of the entire video, the officer has his knee on George Floyd's neck, which is not taught or approved by any law enforcement agency.
> Additionally, other than the Asian officer speaking occasionally to the crowd of bystanders, there is no communication from any of the officers to Mr. Floyd. No talking, no shouting. When have you ever seen a police brutality video without police shouting?
> Additionally, the police had no goal. They weren't trying to subdue him for arrest, he was already handcuffed and all they needed to do, was place him in the back of the car. There is no plausible explanation for taking him to the ground and having three men on top of a handcuffed man, a knee placed on his neck. Mr. Floyd presented no threat and was not resisting. The only goal that there appeared to be was exactly what happened: "To be filmed brutally killing a black man".
> Think about this, these officers did not care about being filmed, in fact the officer stared into the camera with soulless eyes and an emotionless face, reminiscent of an assassin, as he knowingly killed an American Citizen.
> None of the officers spoke among themselves or did they speak to Mr. Floyd. They did not respond to his pleas for life. They just sat and kneeled on him until he was passed out and then waited an additional 4 minutes after Mr. Floyd lost consciousness to ensure that Mr. Floyd was dead and could not be revived.
> The bystanders are verbally communicating to the officers, that he isn't breathing. Unlike any other similar incident, you never see the officers getting on police radios. You never see or hear them calling dispatch for backup. No other police units arrive on the scene and ￼strangely enough, the crowd does not seem to grow either.
> The scene does not end until an ambulance arrives and they unceremoniously flop him on a gurney. At no point does anyone in a uniform ever check his vitals. "As if they aren't remotely curious about the situation they are in" BTW. who called the ambulance and for what reason? Because if the reason was that Mr. Floyd was having a medical issue, they wouldn't have still been crushing his neck.
> Shortly after the video went viral, a fake Facebook page supposedly belonging to the officer, at the center of the murder appears and pictures are uploaded that say "Stand your Ground" and "Trump 2020". A picture of the cop with a red ballcap that says "Make America White Again". A friends list populated with obvious sock accounts and people clearly not his friends. This is the same kind of fake Facebook stunt that happened with a group made to look like support for the men involved with the Ahmed Aubrey case.
> Is it mere coincidence that this happens the week after "race" becomes a major political issue after the Biden "You ain't Black" gaffe, started to threaten the black vote the Democrats so desperately count on?
> Additionally, there is substantial video evidence to arrest at least one officer now. Why would the local authorities not charge him immediately, unless there was a political advantage not to!
> Is it mere coincidence that this happens right about the exact moment the COVID-19 fear campaign falls apart, and after it has psychologically traumatized the entire country and got everyone at each other's throats and suicide attempts are spiking? Is it mere coincidence that this happens after the Auhmed Aubrey case... Which somehow eluded the mainstream media completely until two whole months after he was killed? When has that ever happened? Timing issue? Is it mere coincidence that Supreme Race Baiter Obama was making videos a couple weeks ago connecting COVID with "Systemic Racism"?
> FINALLY.... this entire scene plays out with the cop car and license plate that says "POLICE". The plate was perfectly framed for maximum subliminal impact. This also means he was literally just 1 foot away from the back seat of the police car and these cops thought it was smarter to kill a black man on camera, than to pick him up and move him one foot into the back of the police car.
> You can draw your own conclusions, but this appears to have all the earmarks of George Soros. Please open your eyes!!!!
> Thanks to Chris Tanner for photo and research"
> 
> Aa


If we are ever able to see the entirety of the time spent behind that car, ie: the time period before the filming of the cop kneeling on the perp's back and neck, I might give some credence to the possibility. Without that info, it is all still a mystery.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

I really didn't want to step into this mess, but have read some REALLY stupid posts. The ME didn't do any favors by concluding floyd didn't die by the handling of the leo. True or not show us the body cam footage! This secretive stuff does more damage than they can comprehend!

It festers in people's minds, it predisposes them to distrust authority, which is a good thing, but what I think Diver has been alluding to, step up to the plate and say you were wrong. This sweeping shit under the carpet has to stop!!! One hand washes the other.

Really makes me wonder thinking about another thread whether leo's or/and the mil will follow orders or their oath. Not a good thing to have to contemplate.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Do those in power really believe we will believe their findings on this? Yes, there are enough sheep out there. Sad state of affairs. They think they have the last word on this, but are mistaken. Violence and rioting is not the answer, please don't be stupid, you're hurting more than helping.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

stevekozak said:


> Do we know what sort of history the perp had against him? I think I saw somewhere there were 18 or so prior charges or arrests?


That is irrelevant.
He was on the ground, hand cuffed, and under control.
What the cop did is indefensible.


----------



## bigwheel

I guess by now everybody knows the cop and the dead guy were 17 year co workers at a dance hall. The cop worked outside and the innocent black guy apparently wound up with al the cute white chicks on the inside..but its as good as any excuse to get rid of Trump..burn down Manysoto etc. The good guys win eventually


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## 1skrewsloose

Do I follow this correctly, been a tif between these two for all that time? Guess it might take some time for things to come to a head. Wouldn't have taken me that long to go toe to toe with him.

Maybe I'm reading stuff into this that's not so.


----------



## stevekozak

rice paddy daddy said:


> That is irrelevant.
> He was on the ground, hand cuffed, and under control.
> What the cop did is indefensible.


Nothing is irrelevant. Your other two statements may prove to be true.


----------



## Denton

stevekozak said:


> Nothing is irrelevant. Your other two statements may prove to be true.


I was listening to Breitbart News Tonight on the way home. They were interviewing former NYC Chief of Police Bernard Kerik (Think back to 9/11).

It is his belief that the officer's action was totally improper. He believes that the subject was under clear distress and that the officer should have known, therefore, he should have been charged with first-degree murder.

He also pointed out that the cities under barrage by BLM and Antifa agitators are Democrat-controlled cities that are open to such activity.


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> It's alright. All is good.


Good good, sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> Good good, sorry for the misunderstanding.


You said it best, and you are correct.

Writing thoughts is without the body language and facial expressions, not to mention the tone of voice. For those of us who are amateurs at discussion through writing, it is hard to impart emotion and true expression. It isn't your fault but mine. No need for apologies from you but from me. It is I who apologizes.


----------



## Kauboy

csi-tech said:


> You cannot use lethal force against looters. I'd pepper spary, bean bag, pepper ball and taze the lot. You can't shoot someone for a property crime, period.


I would assume that depends on the state, and the person on scene.
I can see how an officer would not be justified in using lethal force against theft.
But a business owner, or the owner of said property, they have a different defense in some states depending on the circumstance.

And I know in Texas, when it steps up to arson, lethal force can certainly be justified. I think that was what was meant, as in, the officers should have shot anyone approaching that police department carrying a torch/molotov. Might not be SOP in Minn. though.


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> I would assume that depends on the state, and the person on scene.
> I can see how an officer would not be justified in using lethal force against theft.
> But a business owner, or the owner of said property, they have a different defense in some states depending on the circumstance.
> 
> And I know in Texas, when it steps up to arson, lethal force can certainly be justified. I think that was what was meant, as in, the officers should have shot anyone approaching that police department carrying a torch/molotov. Might not be SOP in Minn. though.


If only Common Law were still the basis of jurisprudence.


----------



## StratMaster




----------



## Kauboy

StratMaster said:


> View attachment 106509


That's too good!!!


----------



## Mad Trapper

What a novel idea!

Face masks for robbers and looters!

Minneapolis Mayor Frey won't let people gather for Sunday Mass, but he's giving away free face masks to the rioters as it seems they are not following his order of "social distancing".

I guess this will also help solve the problem of trying to prosecute these feral beasts for the mayhem and atrocities they are causing, as the masks will hamper identifying the criminals

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneapolis-mayor-says-facemasks-given-to-rioters-as-other-residents-told-to-avoid-mass-gatherings


----------



## Mad Trapper

Trump ready to follow up on his threat to restore order in Minneapolis?

Will this start SHTF? Or quell the beasts in the cities?

https://www.masslive.com/news/2020/05/pentagon-orders-army-to-put-military-police-on-alert-to-deploy-to-minneapolis.html

"By The Associated Press

DELRAY BEACH, Fla. - As unrest spread across dozens of American cities on Friday, the Pentagon took the rare step of ordering the Army to put several active-duty U.S. military police units on the ready to deploy to Minneapolis, where the police killing of George Floyd sparked the widespread protests.

Soldiers from Fort Bragg in North Carolina and Fort Drum in New York have been ordered to be ready to deploy within four hours if called, according to three people with direct knowledge of the orders. Soldiers in Fort Carson, in Colorado, and Fort Riley in Kansas have been told to be ready within 24 hours. The people did not want their names used because they were not authorized to discuss the preparations..............

The person said the military units would be deployed under the Insurrection Act of 1807, which was last used in 1992 during the riots in Los Angeles that followed the Rodney King trial.

"If this is where the president is headed response-wise, it would represent a significant escalation and a determination that the various state and local authorities are not up to the task of responding to the growing unrest," said Brad Moss, a Washington D.C.-based attorney, who specializes in national security.

Members of the police units were on a 30-minute recall alert early Saturday, meaning they would have to return to their bases inside that time limit in preparation for deployment to Minneapolis inside of four hours. Units at Fort Drum are slated to head to Minneapolis first, according to the three people, including two Defense Department officials. Roughly 800 U.S. soldiers would deploy to the city if called."


----------



## Smitty901

Notice the cities that have been targeted by the real power behind the riots are Liberal. Who do you really think are behind the riots. Office is arrested and charge in record time. Around here homey guns someone down if even charged it can take up to a year or more.


----------



## Robie

The left's creed...

*Never let a good crisis go to waste.*


----------



## Chipper

What's next??


----------



## stevekozak

Kauboy said:


> I would assume that depends on the state, and the person on scene.
> I can see how an officer would not be justified in using lethal force against theft.
> But a business owner, or the owner of said property, they have a different defense in some states depending on the circumstance.
> 
> And I know in Texas, when it steps up to arson, lethal force can certainly be justified. I think that was what was meant, as in, the officers should have shot anyone approaching that police department carrying a torch/molotov. Might not be SOP in Minn. though.


That was, indeed, what I was saying.


----------



## Chipper

Couple weeks old but she was right, sort of.


----------



## Diver

Piratesailor said:


> My argument stands as stated. The officer was arrested. It took an investigation and a number of days to arrest the office in houston too.


As of this morning, two out of four have been arrested. Insufficient.


----------



## Diver

Smitty901 said:


> Notice the cities that have been targeted by the real power behind the riots are Liberal. Who do you really think are behind the riots. Office is arrested and charge in record time. Around here homey guns someone down if even charged it can take up to a year or more.


Record time? Two of the four have still not been charged. Do you think you or I would have been allowed to go home from the scene? I realize a trial will take time, but an arrest can be done immediately.


----------



## Diver

Chipper said:


> Couple weeks old but she was right, sort of.


https://www.complex.com/life/2020/05/planet-of-apes-monkeys-coronavirus-samples


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Things are really getting out of hand, Talked to my 24 yr old daughter in Az and she used the the word Dystopian? Had to google it. Makes me sooo sad that at her age when she should be looking forward to her life that she feels this way!


----------



## Sasquatch

1skrewsloose said:


> Things are really getting out of hand, Talked to my 24 yr old daughter in Az and she used the the word Dystopian? Had to google it. Makes me sooo sad that at her age when she should be looking forward to her life that she feels this way!


Dystopian has become a very popular with the news because they've been trying to convince everyone Trump is an authoritarian who will turn America into a dystopian wasteland.

You know, the usual projection.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## 1skrewsloose

Kinda freaked me out that she felt that way. After I knew what it meant. She has been through so little strife in her life! We have allowed the education system to produce a bunch of pansies! I sure the hell didn't raise her that way. WTF happened between raising her at home and going to college? Rhetorical question!


----------



## Smitty901

Diver said:


> Record time? Two of the four have still not been charged. Do you think you or I would have been allowed to go home from the scene? I realize a trial will take time, but an arrest can be done immediately.


 If you are black in Milwaukee you would not have even been locked up while waiting a year. Maybe the others did not dod nutn. You forget toe fast look at how long it takes in most cases when the hood gun someone down.


----------



## Kauboy

1skrewsloose said:


> Kinda freaked me out that she felt that way. After I knew what it meant. She has been through so little strife in her life! We have allowed the education system to produce a bunch of pansies! I sure the hell didn't raise her that way. WTF happened between raising her at home and going to college? Rhetorical question!


Colleges nowadays are institutions for unlearning and relearning.
They introduce the student to new ideas, and at the same time, task them with questioning their own. On its face, this is fine.
But then they introduce alternative ideas, and feed on adolescent rebelliousness at just the right time in life to influence them, all while making them think they arrived at these new conclusions on their own.
This empowers them, and they further seek to push back against "the establishment" they've now been taught is overbearing and cruel.

Basic brainwashing. It is very difficult to counteract or prepare for. They've had a century of knowledge on how to do it and refine it. You had 17+ years with your child, and didn't know the fight was coming for half of it.
The key is to continue pushing the critical thinking. That first spark that made her fall into the trap. The Socratic Method is marvelous for this. It keeps people thinking, and questioning their own position, all without attack. It sounds more like she's just a bit lost in it all, overwhelmed perhaps, not really turned away. A few down-to-earth conversations with dad and she should be fine.


----------



## keith9365

When I sent my oldest daughter off to college she was a conservative young woman. When Obama was elected her response was welcome to socialism. She graduated with a degree in graphic design and moved to DC to work. She has turned into the most left wing person I know, believing these riots are the voice of marginalized people crying out to be heard or some BS such as that. She lives in Atlanta now and the riots were a mile from her house, and she still posts the #can you hear me now liberal talking points of the left. All I can do is pray for her.


1skrewsloose said:


> Kinda freaked me out that she felt that way. After I knew what it meant. She has been through so little strife in her life! We have allowed the education system to produce a bunch of pansies! I sure the hell didn't raise her that way. WTF happened between raising her at home and going to college? Rhetorical question!


----------



## Diver

Smitty901 said:


> If you are black in Milwaukee you would not have even been locked up while waiting a year. Maybe the others did not dod nutn. You forget toe fast look at how long it takes in most cases when the hood gun someone down.


It's one thing to make bail, or be released without bail. It is quite another to not be arrested in the first place.


----------



## Smitty901

Diver said:


> It's one thing to make bail, or be released without bail. It is quite another to not be arrested in the first place.


 Who gets a bail hearing . They open the door and let them out. Where have you been the 20 years ?


----------



## Chipper

The daughter of the MN governor is sharing intel with the rioters.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266799954695249920


----------



## Diver

Smitty901 said:


> Who gets a bail hearing . They open the door and let them out. Where have you been the 20 years ?


To be let out, you need to be arrested. Two of the four cops have not been arrested. If you want people to calm down, that has to be the first step.


----------



## Slippy

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-...-george-floyd-show-no-signs-of-strangulation/

Interesting information in the attached article (link above). If this is true and you believe it, does it change your perspective?


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## AquaHull

Nope, a man dies for passing a fake twenty, and now the country is on fire.


----------



## stevekozak

Slippy said:


> https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-...-george-floyd-show-no-signs-of-strangulation/
> 
> Interesting information in the attached article (link above). If this is true and you believe it, does it change your perspective?


A couple of things in that narrative set off alarm bells in my head. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.


----------



## Slippy

AquaHull said:


> Nope, a man dies for passing a fake twenty, and now the country is on fire.


Or;

A man commits a violation of a felony statute (law), fights the police, has a heart condition and an artery condition, continues to resist arrest causing undo stress on his cardiovascular system, the officers do not relent and eventually the suspect expires.

A large number of criminals pillage, burn, steal, property as well as assault and murder innocent people.

These events are (or should be) mutually exclusive.


----------



## Real Old Man

Just got back to this forum after a long hiatus. Think it's funny all of you condemning an individual without knowing even the basic facts - like what caused Floyd's death. Kind of makes one wonder just how much any of you believe in the US Criminal Justice System. Or is it judge first and to he double hockey sticks with the facts


----------



## Mad Trapper

AquaHull said:


> Nope, a man dies for passing a fake twenty, and now the country is on fire.


Did he even know the $20 was fake?

Local bank had been giving out fake $100s, they didn't have a clue until customers started getting busted using the fakes.


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## Smitty901

We still do not know what he died from. They are already getting the body out of state. I smell cover up. he very well could have been jacked up big time. he could have had COV19. They just assumed he died from the knee case closed.


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## SOCOM42

Let me say this, the phrase "I can't breath" is bull$hit, no one could say anything if the throat was cut off.

He may have had the carotid artery cut off but not the windpipe. He would have past out long before without speaking as he did.

I am betting there was something wrong with him.

Nevertheless, he was used as an excuse for the far left antifa to go bezerk.

There should be a standing order, if someone cocks a hand with any object such as a bottle or a rock to throw at you,

they should be shot without hesitation.

Look at the dumb broad who threw a molotov cocktail into a vehicle with 4 officers in it, they just made it out alive.

There would have been a case for extermination.


----------



## Piratesailor

Smitty901 said:


> We still do not know what he died from. They are already getting the body out of state. I smell cover up. he very well could have been jacked up big time. he could have had COV19. They just assumed he died from the knee case closed.


The ME in the county determined he did not suffocate but died from coronary distress. My wife told me she read where he was complaining of not being able to breath before he was on the ground. Also, if your being suffocated, you cannot talk. Anatomical fact.

Doesn't change the fact that the cop should be prosecuted and was negligent along with an abuse of power; never go to the neck. It will be interesting to see body cams and exactly what caused him to be put on the ground.

Btw, did you see in the MSM the black cop choking the black kid and not letting go? No...Very few did either.

But with the current pandemic... they list the cause... covid-19.


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## Back Pack Hack

The simple FACT that they checked for a pulse, couldn't find one...... yet held him in place for *2 more minutes*.......... that's murder. Pure and simple.

If you know someone doesn't have a pulse, you don't wait two friggin minutes.


----------



## Kauboy

Slippy said:


> https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-...-george-floyd-show-no-signs-of-strangulation/
> 
> Interesting information in the attached article (link above). If this is true and you believe it, does it change your perspective?


It does not alter the perspective as far as the charge is concerned.
As I provided earlier:


> Minnesota law originally defined third-degree murder solely as depraved-heart murder ("*without intent to effect the death of any person, caus[ing] the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life*").[7][8] In 1987, an additional drug-related provision ("without intent to cause death, proximately caus[ing] the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II") was added to the definition of third-degree murder.[7][9] Up until the early 2000s, prosecutions under that provision were rare, but they began to rise in the 2010s. Some reports linked this increase in prosecutions to the opioid epidemic in the United States.[10]


The officer used a restraint technique that was not approved. He did not consider the well-being of the person in his care (yes, the officer is responsible for the safety and well-being of anyone they have arrested).
The technique was dangerous, and the officer showed a disregard for human life in utilizing it past any reasonable point of need.
If the officer had pinned Mr. Floyd for 2-3 minutes until he stopped resisting, sat the man in the patrol car, and he later died, I would reconsider this position.

Bear in mind, I still want to see the events that transpired after Mr. Floyd was brought to the patrol car, but before he was on the ground being restrained. What happened then?
From the evidence we have, the officer is at fault in so far as that charge is defined.
It is still up to a jury, of course.


----------



## Kauboy

SOCOM42 said:


> Let me say this, the phrase "I can't breath" is bull$hit, no one could say anything if the throat was cut off.
> 
> He may have had the carotid artery cut off but not the windpipe. He would have past out long before without speaking as he did.


The "I can't breathe" statement cannot become an immediate pass. I totally agree. It's overused as it is, and officers can't always assume it's true, letting their guard down and their suspect up.
However, I've also been in a scenario where I've been under a heavy weight (both my kids sitting on my chest), and my lungs couldn't expand. You can still speak, but you certainly feel like you can't breathe.
Mr. Floyd had 2 other officers on him that are behind the SUV in the cell video. That could be where his inability to breathe came from. Speculation, of course, since we don't have that angle or the events showing him being taken to the ground.


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> The simple FACT that they checked for a pulse, couldn't find one...... yet held him in place for *2 more minutes*.......... that's murder. Pure and simple.
> 
> If you know someone doesn't have a pulse, you don't wait two friggin minutes.


If it is true that happened, that it something else, in addition to murder. Until we have more information we will not know what that is. There is a lot that is starting to feel very hinky about this situation.


----------



## Slippy

It is a common remedy to breathe into a paperbag or some such thing (like a mask?) when suffering from hyperventilation. IF George had followed his democrat leaders advise and worn a mask, he possibly would still be here? 

(One of many things that a man wonders after 5 apple cider beers on a lazy Sunday afternoon...)


----------



## StratMaster

Kauboy said:


> The "I can't breathe" statement cannot become an immediate pass. I totally agree. It's overused as it is, and officers can't always assume it's true, letting their guard down and their suspect up.
> However, I've also been in a scenario where I've been under a heavy weight (both my kids sitting on my chest), and my lungs couldn't expand. You can still speak, but you certainly feel like you can't breathe.
> Mr. Floyd had 2 other officers on him that are behind the SUV in the cell video. That could be where his inability to breathe came from. Speculation, of course, since we don't have that angle or the events showing him being taken to the ground.


Also the new stories coming out of him struggling hard, resisting arrest in those video "gaps". Get yourself COMPLETELY out of breath doing so, and then be compressed where your lungs can't fill and catch up... could easily cause that cardiac episode.


----------



## Kauboy

StratMaster said:


> Also the new stories coming out of him struggling hard, resisting arrest in those video "gaps". Get yourself COMPLETELY out of breath doing so, and then be compressed where your lungs can't fill and catch up... could easily cause that cardiac episode.


It could absolutely contribute. The officer applying the knee may not have caused the direct death with his own knee, I can see that being true. However, none of them did anything to prevent the man from dying when they could tell he lost consciousness and could not get a pulse (a tidbit in the article provided by @Slippy).


----------



## StratMaster

Kauboy said:


> It could absolutely contribute. The officer applying the knee may not have caused the direct death with his own knee, I can see that being true. However, none of them did anything to prevent the man from dying when they could tell he lost consciousness and could not get a pulse (a tidbit in the article provided by @Slippy).


Yep, that's going to be an issue.


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## Back Pack Hack

stevekozak said:


> If it is true that happened,............


It's true.

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-...-george-floyd-show-no-signs-of-strangulation/



> At 8:24:24, Mr. Floyd stopped moving.At 8:25:31 the video appears to show Mr. Floyd ceasing to breathe or speak. Lane said, "want to roll him on his side." Kueng checked Mr. Floyd's right wrist for a pulse and said, "I couldn't find one." None of the officers moved from their positions.
> At 8:27:24, the defendant removed his knee from Mr. Floyd's neck.


Last time I went to school, 8:25:31 to 8:27:24 is awful close to two minutes.


----------



## Real Old Man

Anybody seen the paramedic's report? It should have an awful lot of critical information. Like what time the call went out to the fire house. Like what condition they found him in.

What actions did they take - NARCAN, CPR, AED, or just pack him in the bus and hope for the best.


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> It's true.
> 
> https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-...-george-floyd-show-no-signs-of-strangulation/
> 
> Last time I went to school, 8:25:31 to 8:27:24 is awful close to two minutes.


Your math is correct. I will give you that it was reported in that manner. I am not saying it didn't happen that way. I am saying I don't know. Neither do you. Neither of us was there. We only know what was reported and what we can see from thus far released videos. I don't believe everything I read. And, honestly, in these days of video manipulation, I don't necessarily believe any events that are recorded, that I did not see with my own two eyes. Just because something is written in an official document, disposition, or affidavit, it is not necessarily true. Believe me that I have read hundreds of notarized and court-filed affidavits that were not the truth. This one might be. It also might not be. We don't know.


----------



## Back Pack Hack

stevekozak said:


> Your math is correct. I will give you that it was reported in that manner. I am not saying it didn't happen that way. I am saying I don't know. Neither do you. Neither of us was there. We only know what was reported and what we can see from thus far released videos. I don't believe everything I read. And, honestly, in these days of video manipulation, I don't necessarily believe any events that are recorded, that I did not see with my own two eyes. Just because something is written in an official document, disposition, or affidavit, it is not necessarily true. Believe me that I have read hundreds of notarized and court-filed affidavits that were not the truth. This one might be. It also might not be. We don't know.


Regardless of whether it was 'recorded' that way, there's several videos out there. If you think they've all been manipulated, then they've all been manipulated_ exactly the same_. That's pretty hard to do.


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> Regardless of whether it was 'recorded' that way, there's several videos out there. If you think they've all been manipulated, then they've all been manipulated_ exactly the same_. That's pretty hard to do.


Maybe you have seen videos I have not. Have you seen one that shows the cops checking the perp's pulse count, finding it to be zero, and then continuing to hold the perp down for another (almost) 2 minutes? You may have. I have not. If you had, I hope you will be so kind as to direct me to said video, so I can see it myself. I am not being snarky. I would really like to see that video if it exists.


----------



## Slippy

stevekozak said:


> Maybe you have seen videos I have not. Have you seen one that shows the cops checking the perp's pulse count, finding it to be zero, and then continuing to hold the perp down for another (almost) 2 minutes? You may have. I have not. If you had, I hope you will be so kind as to direct me to said video, so I can see it myself. I am not being snarky. I would really like to see that video if it exists.


And, are we certain that these videos have not been manipulated?

I'm not.

Body Cam footage will be a great help.


----------



## Slippy

Just had another thought...

12 Angry Men

1957 movie starring Henry Fonda, E.G. Marshall, Jack Klugman, Martin Balsam and others.

All the evidence points toward a conviction, but as the jurors delve into the facts, maybe the evidence is not what it was presented?

I'll wait for more evidence to make my decision.


----------



## Back Pack Hack

stevekozak said:


> Maybe you have seen videos I have not. Have you seen one that shows the cops checking the perp's pulse count, finding it to be zero, and then continuing to hold the perp down for another (almost) 2 minutes? You may have. I have not. If you had, I hope you will be so kind as to direct me to said video, so I can see it myself. I am not being snarky. I would really like to see that video if it exists.


You've seen it. You probably just didn't notice it.

Start around 6:50:


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> You've seen it. You probably just didn't notice it.
> 
> Start around 6:50:


So, I watched that very carefully. I moved it to HD and slowed it down to half-speed. The pulse check on the wrist that is written up is not seen anywhere. At around 6:52 on the video, someone in brown/tan uniform and latex gloves appears to put his fingers to the perp's neck. I am going to assume this is a paramedic, as he and one other fellow at the end are wearing the brown/tan and loading the perp in the ambulance. The other officers, who appeared to have been involved in the actual arrest, were all wearing blue uniforms. The white cop, who was kneeling near the head of the perp appears to get off of the perp at around 7:54 in the video. The more I watch the video, the stranger it gets. Someone earlier, in this thread or one of the related ones, talked about the odd behavior of the para-medics. It really is quite odd. I have never seen it before. The reactions of the bystanders is actually quite odd too. They talk about, sometimes a bit loudly, that the police are killing the perp, and later that the police have killed the perp. There does not seem to be any real emotion to their speech, however. If you just isolated the speech of the people at the end, where they are saying how the police killed the perp, out of context, you might not think these people had just seen someone killed before their eyes. Very strange. I understand everyone reacts to death differently, but it is really strange. The more I watch the video, the more I get the feeling that I have seen this movie before. Maybe it will come to me.


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Well, it sounds like you've got this conspiracy all wrapped up. Next, you'll claim George Floyd never existed, just like Anne Frank. And all the looting and burning never happened as well. It's all GCI created by the Illunimati and Skull and Bones.

Now you can get back to proving the earth is flat and we never went to the moon.


----------



## Real Old Man

There is one thing that is very clear thru ot much of this video. And that is Mr. Floyd is making every effort to get up. You can see him actively using his body to try and force the officer away. My guess is that the officers placed him on the ground until they could get him restrained enough to transport. That the officer by Floyd's head is only using enough force to keep Floyd on the ground.

Resisting arrest? Sure looks like that to me.

My guess is the HCDA has just enough probable cause to effect an arrest, but by the time it comes to trial (perhaps next year) it will have all blown over and the officers will be found not guilty and back on the job with all back pay


----------



## Back Pack Hack

Real Old Man said:


> There is one thing that is very clear thru ot much of this video. And that is Mr. Floyd is making every effort to get up. You can see him actively using his body to try and force the officer away. My guess is that the officers placed him on the ground until they could get him restrained enough to transport. That the officer by Floyd's head is only using enough force to keep Floyd on the ground.
> 
> Resisting arrest? Sure looks like that to me.
> 
> My guess is the HCDA has just enough probable cause to effect an arrest, but by the time it comes to trial (perhaps next year) it will have all blown over and the officers will be found not guilty and back on the job with all back pay


He was already in the back seat of the patrol car. They pulled him out.


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> Well, it sounds like you've got this conspiracy all wrapped up. Next, you'll claim George Floyd never existed, just like Anne Frank. And all the looting and burning never happened as well. It's all GCI created by the Illunimati and Skull and Bones.
> 
> Now you can get back to proving the earth is flat and we never went to the moon.


Yes, BP Hack, George Floyd is actually having fornicating tea and crumpets, with Anne Frank, at a hostel table in Copenhagen as we speak. They are laughing and snorting at all the trouble they caused in the world. If you want to be silly and say truly asinine things, have a bit more imagination. Surely you have time to think such things up, with all the backpacking you do, right? :tango_face_wink:


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> He was already in the back seat of the patrol car. They pulled him out.


You saw them do that, right? Or at least saw video of it? Please share.


----------



## Kauboy

Back Pack Hack said:


> He was already in the back seat of the patrol car. They pulled him out.


That's stated in the article, but that's the part I'm wanting to see. There is absolutely body cam video of that, but will we ever see it?
The article isn't even clear on it. In one sentence, it mentions an officer getting into the other side of the patrol car to pull Mr. Floyd in. Then the next sentence says Mr. Floyd was pulled out and fell.
Not clear whether he actually made it into the car, for how long, was he forced out, did he fight to get out?
We need that video.


----------



## Real Old Man

I think Kauboy is right on the money. There's way more to this incident that has actually come to light. The video from the store - it's kind of funny that it stops as the officers get him to the cruiser. Sure it's a shot from a long ways off, but it's continuous store video. Enhanced we might actually get a picture of what occurred when they went to stuff him in the back.

As for those others that had their cell phones bet there's more here than meets the eye


----------



## Back Pack Hack

stevekozak said:


> You saw them do that, right? Or at least saw video of it? Please share.


Stop using the _Deniers and Conspiracy Playbook._ Just because it can't be proven 110% *to you* doesn't mean it's not true.

Do your own research. I'm tired of doing the work for you.

I'm done here.


----------



## Slippy

I don't know what to think of a human being that continues to struggle when it is obvious that he has been beaten. And beaten badly. Especially when the crime is a non violent felony of being accused of passing counterfeit money?

Is he stupid? Is he simply a martyr? Is he to be revered for his fortitude? 

Or is he just stupid? I mean really stupid with little or no cognitive skills and a lack of problem solving ability, nothing more than an amoeba or collection of cells that has no analytical ability and without anything but the ability to feel pain but not the ability to adjust accordingly?

I don't know.


----------



## Denton

Back Pack Hack said:


> Stop using the _Deniers and Conspiracy Playbook._ Just because it can't be proven 110% *to you* doesn't mean it's not true.
> 
> Do your own research. I'm tired of doing the work for you.
> 
> I'm done here.


So, let's look at what we know.

An unarmed, handcuffed man is dead. A cop had his knee on the man's neck for several minutes while other cops milled about.

All the cops were fired and one has been charged with murder. It could be asserted that the actions by the P.D. were politically motivated, but it could also be said that the cops were bad and the P.D. fired them because of that and the kneeler was charged because he committed murder.

This is what I know. I know I would never have pressed my knee into someone's neck, let alone left it there for many minutes, or even a single minute.


----------



## Denton

*Link removed due to vulgar graffiti* 

Setting St. John's Church afire has nothing to do with demonstrating.


----------



## Real Old Man

No offense old man but placing one's knee in the area between the shoulder blades and the side of the neck is taught to corrections officers when we take an individual to the ground for hand cuffing. And if you watch the ten minute video you can see that Mr Floyd is actively trying to break free.

So let's say that Mr Floyd disagreed with officers placing him under arrest. You can see that once he's taken out of his vehicle that he is more than just a wee bit unhappy about being carted off. It takes two officers to escort him from where he is initially questioned. That's not a sign of an individual complying with an arresting officers commands.

And remember the prelim autopsy shows no sign of strangulation. Weak heart? Maybe. high blood pressure? Maybe. Some other medical condition aggrivated by his arrest? Maybe

We're still in the very early stages of the State's Investigation


----------



## Denton

Real Old Man said:


> No offense old man but placing one's knee in the area between the shoulder blades and the side of the neck is taught to corrections officers when we take an individual to the ground for hand cuffing. And if you watch the ten minute video you can see that Mr Floyd is actively trying to break free.
> 
> So let's say that Mr Floyd disagreed with officers placing him under arrest. You can see that once he's taken out of his vehicle that he is more than just a wee bit unhappy about being carted off. It takes two officers to escort him from where he is initially questioned. That's not a sign of an individual complying with an arresting officers commands.
> 
> And remember the prelim autopsy shows no sign of strangulation. Weak heart? Maybe. high blood pressure? Maybe. Some other medical condition aggrivated by his arrest? Maybe
> 
> We're still in the very early stages of the State's Investigation


Sorry, but he was cuffed. He wasn't being pinned while being cuffed. He was already cuffed.

Me? My experience? I can't explain why one cop would keep his knee on someone's neck while other cops wandered around. Think about it. In my day, we would have had the suspect wrapped up and transported. Why did that not happen? Think about it!


----------



## Inor

Slippy said:


> Or is he just stupid? I mean really stupid with little or no cognitive skills and a lack of problem solving ability, nothing more than an amoeba or collection of cells that has no analytical ability and without anything but the ability to feel pain but not the ability to adjust accordingly?


EXCELLENT point Slip!

If Floyd was that damn stupid the cops should have just called it "an extreme late-term abortion" and been done with it. The 4 cops would have been given medals. The progressives in MN would have been happy because another unwanted clump of black cells would be off the streets. Hell, most of the businesses that were burned would have probably offered discounts in celebration of the event.


----------



## Denton

Inor said:


> EXCELLENT point Slip!
> 
> If Floyd was that damn stupid the cops should have just called it "an extreme late-term abortion" and been done with it. The 4 cops would have been given medals. The progressives in MN would have been happy because another unwanted clump of black cells would be off the streets. Hell, most of the businesses that were burned would have probably offered discounts in celebration of the event.


WRONG!

Once the police arrests someone, they are responsible for that person's well-being. Clearly, very clearly, that responsibility was neglected, to say the less.

The crap that is now happening has nothing to do with Floyd's death.


----------



## Denton

Does this sound like a man who would endorse this?


----------



## Inor

Denton said:


> WRONG!
> 
> Once the police arrests someone, they are responsible for that person's well-being. Clearly, very clearly, that responsibility was neglected, to say the less.
> 
> The crap that is now happening has nothing to do with Floyd's death.


Right, wrong or otherwise, after spending the first 49 years of my life in Minnesota, I can say unequivocally my post was only partially meant to be absurd. That really IS how most enlightened urban Minnesotans think.


----------



## Denton

Inor said:


> Right, wrong or otherwise, after spending the first 49 years of my life in Minnesota, I can say unequivocally my post was only partially meant to be absurd. That really IS how most enlightened urban Minnesotans think.


We seem to have entered into the world of absurdity.


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> Does this sound like a man who would endorse this?


Thank you!
I saw this yesterday and thought it was a damn shame that a voice of reason lost his life like this, and now that loss is being used as an excuse to cause more violence in his name.
Shameful.


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> Stop using the _Deniers and Conspiracy Playbook._ Just because it can't be proven 110% *to you* doesn't mean it's not true.
> 
> Do your own research. I'm tired of doing the work for you.
> 
> I'm done here.


You have not done any credible work. You have posted a bunch of ideas as if they were proven facts. They are not. The one video you worked ever so hard to post did not contain the information you repeatedly said that it did. You then posted a silly little fit about it when that was pointed out to you. I am not sure why you are so invested in making statements that you want to be established fact. Just say you think this or that happened. Say that you believe this or that happened. Hell, say you want for this or that to happen. Just quit stating things as fact that are not, and pitching tantrums when it is pointed out that they are not. Everything you have said about the events may turn out to be true. So far, there just hasn't been evidence to that end. I ain't mad, bro, I just am just mystified by your obstinance. I pray that you have fruitful and peaceful day. :vs_wave:


----------



## stevekozak

Denton said:


> Does this sound like a man who would endorse this?


These are good words, and I am sure he understood them to be true, at the time. I will say this, however: I have heard career criminals say very similar things, at length, and then go out and do the same violent acts all over again. Not sure why. Hope springs eternal in the human breast!!


----------



## Smitty901

The knee holding him did not kill kill him.


----------



## Real Old Man

I can tell you from real world experiences that just because someone is cuffed and placed in the back of a cruiser that he/she is no longer a threat. We arrested a kid high on a substance we still - 10 years later - have no idea what it was. put him in the back passenger side of the cruiser. Before I could get around to the drivers door, he'd already kicked out my rear passenger door window and was making to snake his way out in a bid for freedom. He'd already been tasered with on effect on him. 

Yes we took him out and had to wait for a prison style transport van.

Again there is way too much information missing to make a rush to judge these officer's actions


----------



## Kauboy

The two doctors hired by Mr. Floyd's family attorneys to conduct an independent autopsy have reached a very different conclusion on cause of death than that of the county medical examiner.

George Floyd WAS murdered by Minneapolis cop Derek Chauvin after knee on his neck 'caused asphyxia that led to lack of blood flow to brain', says independent autopsy ordered by family


> 'Not only was the knee on George's neck a cause of his death, but so was the weight of the other two police officers on his back, who not only prevented blood flow into his brain but also air flow into his lungs,' he continued.
> The findings of Baden and Wilson greatly differ from the ruling of an autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office on Floyd last week.
> Their independent evaluation also found that Floyd had 'no underlying medical problems that caused or contributed to his death,' contrary to the rulings of the medical examiner.
> 'This is confirmed by information from myself, from Dr. Wilson, and from the family,' Baden said. '[Mr. Floyd] was in good health.'
> The county's autopsy found 'no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.' The report also said Floyd had underlying health conditions, including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease
> In conclusion, the examiner suggested Floyd likely died from a combination of his underlying health conditions and potential intoxicants in his system that were exacerbated by the restraint placed on him by police officers.
> Baden criticized those findings Monday, pointing out that the emphasis the pressure on his neck may have had on his death wouldn't show up in an autopsy because the pressure is released by the time body arrived at the examiner's office.
> 'The compressive pressure on the neck are not seen at autopsy because the pressure is released by the time the body has come to the medical office,' Baden said. 'It can only be seen when the pressure is being applied - or in this instance in the video.'
> He continued: 'Pressure on the neck can interfere with blood flow and oxygen going to the brain, and pressure to the back interferes with breathing.'
> Baden also refuted the idea that Floyd had coronary artery disease. In a comment in reference to his age group's susceptibility to coronavirus, the 85-year-old said, 'I wish I had the same coronary arteries that Mr. Floyd had.'


Now it's up to a jury of people who are not medically trained to make a determination on which report is true.


----------



## stevekozak

Kauboy said:


> The two doctors hired by Mr. Floyd's family attorneys to conduct an independent autopsy have reached a very different conclusion on cause of death than that of the county medical examiner.
> 
> George Floyd WAS murdered by Minneapolis cop Derek Chauvin after knee on his neck 'caused asphyxia that led to lack of blood flow to brain', says independent autopsy ordered by family
> 
> Now it's up to a jury of people who are not medically trained to make a determination on which report is true.


I hope both sets of people took certified photos of the organs, as one or the other of them are lying, or to be charitable, gravely mistaken.


----------



## Real Old Man

One sign that usually shows up post mortem is petechiae - these are small blood vessel ruptures . Should have been prevalent in the eyes.

And as you say one or both may be mistaken or liars or both. Course the tox screen hasn't come back yet or they're not making mention of it

Would have thought one or the other should have made a statement


----------



## SOCOM42

The hired ME's were paid to find what they did, would you expect any other result?

This paves the way for a civil lawsuit that will enhance the families pockets with millions.

Family is championing peaceful action not rioting.

They are afraid the jury pool will be contaminated with disgruntled people sick 

with the burning and looting.

It is the same BS as was done with James Brady(AKA Brady bill).

He died 4 Aug 2014, 33 years after being hit in the Reagan assassination 

attempt.

That ME I am sure was paid off by the anti gun group and plenty.

Normally in a death like his there would be no autopsy, 

his was politically motivated with a predetermined outcome.

He (ME)declared that it was the shooting that killed him 33 years later!! 

What bulshit!!

A political move to enhance the campaign's funding,

support and continue to pay Sahra more money.

In this state, there is a rule of thumb called the year and a day rule.

If a person survives an attack with whatever weapon and lives more than a year and a day,

The perp cannot be charged with homicide,

they could have already been jailed for the crime on a

lesser level, but cannot be tried for any level of homicide.


----------



## Kauboy

Now the original county medical examiner is changing the cause of death, and ruling the incident a homicide.

County medical examiner rules George Floyd's death a homicide


> The Hennepin County medical examiner in Minnesota ruled George Floyd's death a homicide on Monday.
> The county said in a report that Floyd experienced cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement.
> Earlier on Monday, Floyd family attorney Benjamin Crump said an independent autopsy had found that Floyd's manner of death was a homicide and that he died of asphyxia due to neck and back compression.
> Last week the Hennepin County Attorney's Office released a criminal complaint that said according to the medical examiner's initial autopsy there were "no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."
> The county medical examiner's report also said Floyd had arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, whereas the independent autopsy found that Floyd had no underlying conditions.


So that means the official autopsy, as well as the independent autopsy, both now agree on the final ruling, but differ on what caused the actual death of Mr. Floyd.
They both agree it was homicide.
Was one or both paid to find/change what they reported? We'll never truly know.
But this agreement in ruling now puts the officer(s) at fault from a medical standpoint.


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> Now the original county medical examiner is changing the cause of death, and ruling the incident a homicide.
> 
> County medical examiner rules George Floyd's death a homicide
> 
> So that means the official autopsy, as well as the independent autopsy, both now agree on the final ruling, but differ on what caused the actual death of Mr. Floyd.
> They both agree it was homicide.
> Was one or both paid to find/change what they reported? We'll never truly know.
> But this agreement in ruling now puts the officer(s) at fault from a medical standpoint.


This is sending my conspiratorial brain into overload.


----------



## Real Old Man

Meth and fentanyl is never a good combination to have in one's system. I'm guessing that combined with the underlying medical conditions would have killed him regardless of how he was restrained. Only thing that works to bring those folks back from the dead is Narcan. Seems like he'd have said something to the original arresting officer. but it seems like no one cops medics or fire fighters had a clue he'd used Fent


----------



## Real Old Man

Course we'll probably never know just how much was in his system.

Signs and Symptoms of Fentanyl Overdose
Fentanyl overdoses can be deadly, so it is vital that you call 911 right away if you suspect an overdose may have occurred. A person overdosing on fentanyl may present with the following overdose signs and symptoms 3, 4:

Pinpoint pupils.
Weak muscles.
Dizziness.
Confusion.
Extreme sleepiness.
Loss of consciousness.
Profoundly slowed heart beat.
Very low blood pressure.
Dangerously slowed or stopped breathing.
Bluish tint to nails and lips.
The effects that a fentanyl overdose have on the user’s heart rate and breathing present the biggest risk of death or permanent damage. Even if a user survives a fentanyl overdose, these side effects may leave a lasting mark on the user’s body if not treated immediately. For example, respiratory depression can lead to hypoxia, which can cause permanent brain damage in the suffering individual 5, 6.


----------



## Smitty901

I said day one he was likely jacked up. He was jacked up and it is being covered up.


----------



## Kauboy

Real Old Man said:


> Meth and fentanyl is never a good combination to have in one's system. I'm guessing that combined with the underlying medical conditions would have killed him regardless of how he was restrained. Only thing that works to bring those folks back from the dead is Narcan. Seems like he'd have said something to the original arresting officer. but it seems like no one cops medics or fire fighters had a clue he'd used Fent


Yeah, I don't want to be on that jury.
The officers showed a disregard for the man's life and employed a non-approved restraining technique. Had the knee been on the man's back or shoulder blades, and had they taken ANY concern for his statements about not being able to breathe, I would be a bit more understanding.
It doesn't matter if your detained person is on PCP and trying to smash their own face through a steel wall, you are still responsible for keeping them as safe as you can.
The drug mix Mr. Floyd was on does not change the fact that the officers disregarded his well-being and used dangerous restraining techniques on a cuffed man who was on the ground.
If Minn. didn't have that special "3rd degree" murder charge, this would likely just be negligent homicide.


----------



## Piratesailor

Just turned on the news. Massive gathering downtown. Yeah..easily 10-20k people. I did catch the last few words of a “reverend” civil rights leader and he mentioned the “white system”. Interesting. I though it was the American system but if he wants something else, go to Africa where there a many “black” systems.

Ok.. he’s talking again. He said it’s a bad system. He said keep mobilized. He did say get ready to vote. yup.. vote democrats that put you in the same place. You should see the “thugs” on the stage. They look like the black panthers. 

We’ll see how this turns out tonight. I really do think that the vast majority are peaceful... but there definitely are the bad elements (Antifa, BLM) that may riot later.


----------



## Piratesailor

New guy talking.. says the system is broken and needs to be broken down and built back up. He says that the bad cop expected to get away with it. 

Guy is saying voting is not enough. He did say economic action is needed. He said the cops are the problems and we need to take the fight to DC. 

Again.. what new system? A system that doesn’t address the black murders in chicago? Must have forgot of them.


----------



## Piratesailor

Jeez.. the mayor was praising the police chief of Minneapolis. What a f’ing hypocrite. What about the cop that executed the Australian woman?


----------



## Kauboy

Piratesailor said:


> New guy talking.. says the system is broken and needs to be broken down and built back up. He says that the bad cop expected to get away with it.
> 
> Guy is saying voting is not enough. He did say economic action is needed. He said the cops are the problems and we need to take the fight to DC.
> 
> Again.. what new system? A system that doesn't address the black murders in chicago? Must have forgot of them.


That's your basic "Rules For Radicals" template. "Break down the systems" is the call for anarchists, or as they're often referred to, the "useful idiots" that assist with a communist revolution. They have no idea what comes after, but can be whipped into a frenzy and compelled to do the dirty work of the puppet masters. They live in the moment, crave violence, and thrive on the rush of mob mentality. It's like a drug, and those speakers are peddling it.
The best remedy is often a lead injection delivered at high speed. Thankfully, we have a president who isn't willing to let an American city burn to the ground without resistance. There will be no "stand down" order given like the last joke of an administration.


----------



## Denton




----------



## Slippy

Piratesailor said:


> Jeez.. the mayor was praising the police chief of Minneapolis. What a f'ing hypocrite. What about the cop that executed the Australian woman?


The people that they are trying to get their message out to, are not very smart people.


----------



## StratMaster

Kauboy said:


> That's your basic "Rules For Radicals" template. "Break down the systems" is the call for anarchists, or as they're often referred to, the "useful idiots" that assist with a communist revolution. They have no idea what comes after, but can be whipped into a frenzy and compelled to do the dirty work of the puppet masters. They live in the moment, crave violence, and thrive on the rush of mob mentality. It's like a drug, and those speakers are peddling it.
> The best remedy is often a lead injection delivered at high speed. Thankfully, we have a president who isn't willing to let an American city burn to the ground without resistance. There will be no "stand down" order given like the last joke of an administration.


The irony: they believe themselves to be casting off imaginary chains... but are exchanging them for REAL ones.


----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


> The irony: they believe themselves to be casting off imaginary chains... but are exchanging them for REAL ones.


Funny you say that. I sent WorkWifey the link I provided here about the AntiFa punks. She also took note of that. History shows that these ground soldiers will be eradicated as they will be seen as a threat when they realize they were nothing but pawns. If not stopped, the damage will be done.


----------



## Slippy

I realized something ironical about all this crap;

I always thought that "The Next Revolution" would be Patriots standing up and ridding the government of tyranny.

But now we have Anarchists attempting to rid the government of what's left of Patriots. 

FUBAR


----------



## Diver

I would like to issue a correction to some of my earlier posts. I had read that a second police officer had been arrested and stated that here. That is incorrect. Only Derek Chauvin has been arrested.


----------



## Slippy

Diver said:


> I would like to issue a correction to some of my earlier posts. I had read that a second police officer had been arrested and stated that here. That is incorrect. Only Derek Chauvin has been arrested.


Diver,

Can you do some research and find out if any of the thugs who murdered multiple people during these lawless riots have been arrested?

Thanks!


----------



## Slippy

You know, I'm in an ironical mood today.

Isn't it ironical that these riots are 100% targeting minorities? 

(What a bunch of ignorant halfwits)


----------



## Diver

Correction #2: Now the news is saying the other 3 officers will be charged, presumably they will be arrested soon. Also in Minneapolis, a store owner shot a looter and was immediately arrested.


----------



## jimb1972

Slippy said:


> Diver,
> 
> Can you do some research and find out if any of the thugs who murdered multiple people during these lawless riots have been arrested?
> 
> Thanks!


If they were the idiots in Hollywood donated enough money to bail them out.


----------



## Slippy

Diver said:


> Correction #2: Now the news is saying the other 3 officers will be charged, presumably they will be arrested soon. Also in Minneapolis, a store owner shot a looter and was immediately arrested.


Hey Diver,

How does it feel to be a punk ass marxist?

Not your friend! :vs_laugh:

Slippy


----------



## SOCOM42

SOCOM42 said:


> Let me say this, the phrase "I can't breath" is bull$hit, no one could say anything if the throat was cut off.
> 
> He may have had the carotid artery cut off but not the windpipe. He would have past out long before without speaking as he did.
> 
> I am betting there was something wrong with him.
> 
> Nevertheless, he was used as an excuse for the far left antifa to go bezerk.
> 
> There should be a standing order, if someone cocks a hand with any object such as a bottle or a rock to throw at you,
> 
> they should be shot without hesitation.
> 
> Look at the dumb broad who threw a molotov cocktail into a vehicle with 4 officers in it, they just made it out alive.
> 
> There would have been a case for extermination.


It was announced on Fox News a little while ago that he was suffering from COVID-19, lung tissue was found to be infected.

That in itself would have caused his demise with reduced lung capacity.

Unless the jury is rigged, he should walk on the specified charges.


----------



## Denton

A buddy is doing a poetry channel. He was motivated to do this one:


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

It looks like things are finally beginning to simmer down a bit which is good but I fear the worst is yet to come, especially if all 4 officers aren't convicted of all charges and given the maximum penalty. I believe they over charged the officers and there is a real chance they won't get a conviction.


----------



## Prepared One

NotTooProudToHide said:


> It looks like things are finally beginning to simmer down a bit which is good but I fear the worst is yet to come, especially if all 4 officers aren't convicted of all charges and given the maximum penalty. I believe they over charged the officers and there is a real chance they won't get a conviction.


I don't believe It's about police brutality at all, never was. The puppeteers are using Floyd as an excuse to advance their agenda. Look for more dominoes to fall as we get closer to the elections. They are going to ramp it up if anything.


----------



## Diver

SOCOM42 said:


> It was announced on Fox News a little while ago that he was suffering from COVID-19, lung tissue was found to be infected.
> 
> That in itself would have caused his demise with reduced lung capacity.
> 
> Unless the jury is rigged, he should walk on the specified charges.


You may be right but one group that suffers from police brutality more than blacks are people with disabilities. If police want to cut down the number of innocent people that die in their custody, they need to make changes to reduce that problem, starting with recognizing that they are dealing with someone with limitations. There are cases of someone who is deaf being beaten or killed for not obeying commands that they were clearly not able to hear or understand.


----------



## Real Old Man

You know it's not like they've got a signposted on their back or forehaed. I'm disabled. One leg easy. Wheel Chair - easy. Diabetic? Mentally not all there? Deaf. If you're hard of hearing like me then get a hearing aid. And don't go quoting the $3000 each price tag as an impediment. Good ones that can deal with severe hearing loss can be had for under $200. Less than the cost of getting your dreds fixed three times.


----------



## Denton

Real Old Man said:


> You know it's not like they've got a signposted on their back or forehaed. I'm disabled. One leg easy. Wheel Chair - easy. Diabetic? Mentally not all there? Deaf. If you're hard of hearing like me then get a hearing aid. And don't go quoting the $3000 each price tag as an impediment. Good ones that can deal with severe hearing loss can be had for under $200. Less than the cost of getting your dreds fixed three times.


Many of us at work are shooters who don't use double hearing protection. We work helicopters and don't use double hearing protection. You should hear some of the attempted conversations. _What_ is the most used word, and even then, sentences are misunderstood. Comical, sometimes. I guess the cops in the surrounding communities are used to us.


----------



## Diver

Real Old Man said:


> You know it's not like they've got a signposted on their back or forehaed. I'm disabled. One leg easy. Wheel Chair - easy. Diabetic? Mentally not all there? Deaf. If you're hard of hearing like me then get a hearing aid. And don't go quoting the $3000 each price tag as an impediment. Good ones that can deal with severe hearing loss can be had for under $200. Less than the cost of getting your dreds fixed three times.


We're talking folks who are deaf, not just hearing impaired. You can't fix total deafness with a hearing aid and that doesn't relieve police of the responsibility to keep folks safe.


----------



## 0rocky

*Where are they hiding?*

How come I don't see any Illegal Aliens rioting. Surely they have something to complain about; aggressive policing, insufficient benefits, something. If not now, when will there be a better time to upgrade your tv. Don't tell me they all have 80 inch flat screens.

Just my 2¢


----------



## Real Old Man

again you totally missed my point. If you're deaf or suffering from some non outwardly visible physical condition, it is next to impossible for cops to determine your condition. Tuen around with a handgun pointed at most cops and it's not going to come out well. 

Be naked in the middle of the street and not respond coherently with an officers questions then charge him while screaming at the top of one's lungs and it's definitely going to be a really bad day for someone.

You probably don't remember the case over the Florida Coastal waterway bridge where the cops came on a half naked individual chomping down on a fellow soul all the while growling like a mad dog. Bath salts will do that to you.

In this case you have an individual who had high blood pressure, had suffered from COVID 19 and had injested Fentanyl and meth. If you look at the video - really look at it - you'll see mr floyd doing his darndest to get up off the ground and from his verbalizations it's obvious that he is still capable of breathing. Now I know that's going to get a whole bunch of your panties up in a wad, but the cops asked him if he was on anything and he responded no.

Had he said fentanyl they'd have at least been able to tell ems to have the narcan ready. But nope he didn't say anything.

His death is certainly tragic, but


----------



## jimb1972

Real Old Man said:


> again you totally missed my point. If you're deaf or suffering from some non outwardly visible physical condition, it is next to impossible for cops to determine your condition. Tuen around with a handgun pointed at most cops and it's not going to come out well.
> 
> Be naked in the middle of the street and not respond coherently with an officers questions then charge him while screaming at the top of one's lungs and it's definitely going to be a really bad day for someone.
> 
> You probably don't remember the case over the Florida Coastal waterway bridge where the cops came on a half naked individual chomping down on a fellow soul all the while growling like a mad dog. Bath salts will do that to you.
> 
> In this case you have an individual who had high blood pressure, had suffered from COVID 19 and had injested Fentanyl and meth. If you look at the video - really look at it - you'll see mr floyd doing his darndest to get up off the ground and from his verbalizations it's obvious that he is still capable of breathing. Now I know that's going to get a whole bunch of your panties up in a wad, but the cops asked him if he was on anything and he responded no.
> 
> Had he said fentanyl they'd have at least been able to tell ems to have the narcan ready. But nope he didn't say anything.
> 
> His death is certainly tragic, but


I don't believe the toxicology report is back yet, I don't put much faith in the departments statements when they are in full CYA mode.


----------



## stevekozak

Real Old Man said:


> again you totally missed my point. If you're deaf or suffering from some non outwardly visible physical condition, it is next to impossible for cops to determine your condition. Tuen around with a handgun pointed at most cops and it's not going to come out well.
> 
> Be naked in the middle of the street and not respond coherently with an officers questions then charge him while screaming at the top of one's lungs and it's definitely going to be a really bad day for someone.
> 
> You probably don't remember the case over the Florida Coastal waterway bridge where the cops came on a half naked individual chomping down on a fellow soul all the while growling like a mad dog. Bath salts will do that to you.
> 
> In this case you have an individual who had high blood pressure, had suffered from COVID 19 and had injested Fentanyl and meth. If you look at the video - really look at it - you'll see mr floyd doing his darndest to get up off the ground and from his verbalizations it's obvious that he is still capable of breathing. Now I know that's going to get a whole bunch of your panties up in a wad, but the cops asked him if he was on anything and he responded no.
> 
> Had he said fentanyl they'd have at least been able to tell ems to have the narcan ready. But nope he didn't say anything.
> 
> His death is certainly tragic, but


Hasn't Diver told you? Cops are required to be magical mind readers. You know, for the safety of the public......


----------



## Real Old Man

*Crap!!!!* I've been doing this $hit for over 20 years and no one ever told me


----------



## StratMaster




----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


>


That man is strong.


----------



## StratMaster




----------



## Chiefster23

Folks! One very major point here is being overlooked. Cops are regular everyday ordinary people. Most police jobs are not high paying jobs. Some are really low paying departments. That said, because wages aren’t great, these jobs don’t attract the “best of the best” people. I’m not dinking on cops. I’m only saying that if you are paying $40k a year, you are hiring a $40k a year guy. Not a lawyer or rocket scientist. So if we are paying average wages, why are we demanding above average performance from these officers? We are taking high school grads, giving them a little additional training, and expecting perfect job performance in every situation. Almost all of these large democrat controlled cities are deeply in debt and have grossly underfunded police departments paying shit wages. We are getting exactly what we are paying for. Many many good people, some slackers, and a few who are only in it for the power trip the gun and badge gives them. Around here we have dozens of small boros and townships that pay cops $15 to $20 per hour. You can imagine the caliber of police officer $15 per hour buys.


----------



## Slippy

Lessons for the youngsters;

If you have heart disease, Covid19 and mix fentanyl and meth don't pass fake 20's then fight the cops unless you want to be dead.


----------



## stevekozak

Chiefster23 said:


> Folks! One very major point here is being overlooked. Cops are regular everyday ordinary people. Most police jobs are not high paying jobs. Some are really low paying departments. That said, because wages aren't great, these jobs don't attract the "best of the best" people. I'm not dinking on cops. I'm only saying that if you are paying $40k a year, you are hiring a $40k a year guy. Not a lawyer or rocket scientist. So if we are paying average wages, why are we demanding above average performance from these officers? We are taking high school grads, giving them a little additional training, and expecting perfect job performance in every situation. Almost all of these large democrat controlled cities are deeply in debt and have grossly underfunded police departments paying shit wages. We are getting exactly what we are paying for. Many many good people, some slackers, and a few who are only in it for the power trip the gun and badge gives them. Around here we have dozens of small boros and townships that pay cops $15 to $20 per hour. You can imagine the caliber of police officer $15 per hour buys.


While you are right about cops just being human beings (something that DOES get overlooked a lot), I take small issue with the pay argument. I have worked in a lot of jobs in my life. I have hired and fired people. The one maxim that I have found to be true is: A man that will not give 100% for an $8 an hour job will also not give 100% for a $30 an hour job. It is about work ethic and personal responsibility. If you are not willing to give your best effort for a low-paying job, then don't take a low-paying job. I have seen McDonald's workers who took pride in what they did and gave that job their best, and I have seen highly-paid professionals half-ass their positions. It really is not about the money. My father told me, as a small boy, that if you take a man's money to do a piece of work, you do the best job possible, regardless of the wage. Anyone who is going into a public service job, like law enforcement, social work, public school teacher, had best have a passion for what it is they are doing, because doing it for the money really is not ever going to work out.


----------



## Diver

Real Old Man said:


> again you totally missed my point. If you're deaf or suffering from some non outwardly visible physical condition, it is next to impossible for cops to determine your condition. Tuen around with a handgun pointed at most cops and it's not going to come out well.
> 
> Be naked in the middle of the street and not respond coherently with an officers questions then charge him while screaming at the top of one's lungs and it's definitely going to be a really bad day for someone.
> 
> You probably don't remember the case over the Florida Coastal waterway bridge where the cops came on a half naked individual chomping down on a fellow soul all the while growling like a mad dog. Bath salts will do that to you.
> 
> In this case you have an individual who had high blood pressure, had suffered from COVID 19 and had injested Fentanyl and meth. If you look at the video - really look at it - you'll see mr floyd doing his darndest to get up off the ground and from his verbalizations it's obvious that he is still capable of breathing. Now I know that's going to get a whole bunch of your panties up in a wad, but the cops asked him if he was on anything and he responded no.
> 
> Had he said fentanyl they'd have at least been able to tell ems to have the narcan ready. But nope he didn't say anything.
> 
> His death is certainly tragic, but


Check YouTube. There was a case of a totally deaf and mute guy in his car who was dragged out of his car and beaten mercilessly. He tried to present a written statement to inform the officers of his condition, but they wouldn't look at it, just beat him up. Yes he won his lawsuit, but now he is terrified of police. Another deaf guy was riding a bicycle and police shouted at him. He never heard them so they shot him to death. His family won that suit. Neither case involved the deaf guy doing anything violent. They were just unable to hear or respond to commands.


----------



## Diver

Chiefster23 said:


> Folks! One very major point here is being overlooked. Cops are regular everyday ordinary people. Most police jobs are not high paying jobs. Some are really low paying departments. That said, because wages aren't great, these jobs don't attract the "best of the best" people. I'm not dinking on cops. I'm only saying that if you are paying $40k a year, you are hiring a $40k a year guy. Not a lawyer or rocket scientist. So if we are paying average wages, why are we demanding above average performance from these officers? We are taking high school grads, giving them a little additional training, and expecting perfect job performance in every situation. Almost all of these large democrat controlled cities are deeply in debt and have grossly underfunded police departments paying shit wages. We are getting exactly what we are paying for. Many many good people, some slackers, and a few who are only in it for the power trip the gun and badge gives them. Around here we have dozens of small boros and townships that pay cops $15 to $20 per hour. You can imagine the caliber of police officer $15 per hour buys.


My local police department back in the People's Republic of New Jersey (PRNJ) is paying over $100k per year and touts that they hire all college grads. They're not very good. 

oh yeah, then there are benefits like you'll never see in the private sector.


----------



## Smitty901

Diver said:


> My local police department back in the People's Republic of New Jersey (PRNJ) is paying over $100k per year and touts that they hire all college grads. They're not very good.
> 
> oh yeah, then there are benefits like you'll never see in the private sector.


 Sign up. Easy money , benefits, nice car. . You get to beat up anyone you want any time you want. No one would dare harm you. You never know when the next felon with a gun will kill you to avoid arrest on his 5 outstanding warrants. Two for murder.
Easy money.


----------



## Real Old Man

Diver said:


> My local police department back in the People's Republic of New Jersey (PRNJ) is paying over $100k per year and touts that they hire all college grads. They're not very good.
> 
> oh yeah, then there are benefits like you'll never see in the private sector.


Hey, If you have a much better background at dealing with folks how about signing up and doing something about fixing the problems you claim to see.

Don't know about the cops in your area, but I agree with Chief most here are honest hard working stiffs trying to do a job that most of the rest of America won't or can't do. Only to be monday morning quarterbacked by a bunch of santimonious fools.

And just for the record I'm hearing impaired


----------



## Robie

I have a question.

I'll put it here instead of starting a new thread.

Question: Why is it always the group that creates most of the problems...has exponentially the higher violent crime rate....is always the group that yells the loudest about police brutality and unfair treatment?

Just wondering.....


----------



## Diver

Smitty901 said:


> Sign up. Easy money , benefits, nice car. . You get to beat up anyone you want any time you want. No one would dare harm you. You never know when the next felon with a gun will kill you to avoid arrest on his 5 outstanding warrants. Two for murder.
> Easy money.


It's a lot safer than driving a cab.


----------



## Diver

Real Old Man said:


> Hey, If you have a much better background at dealing with folks how about signing up and doing something about fixing the problems you claim to see.
> 
> Don't know about the cops in your area, but I agree with Chief most here are honest hard working stiffs trying to do a job that most of the rest of America won't or can't do. Only to be monday morning quarterbacked by a bunch of santimonious fools.
> 
> And just for the record I'm hearing impaired


If those honest, hard working stiffs would do something about the bad cops your argument would go much further. Since many police departments will not take disciplinary action against bad cops, the PR problem continues.

The police may be 99.44% pure, just like Marilyn Chambers, but to regain the trust of the public, they need to be better.


----------



## Smitty901

Diver said:


> If those honest, hard working stiffs would do something about the bad cops your argument would go much further. Since many police departments will not take disciplinary action against bad cops, the PR problem continues.
> 
> The police may be 99.44% pure, just like Marilyn Chambers, but to regain the trust of the public, they need to be better.


 This is were you don't get it. Police departments do not hire the best people they hire those that fit a profile. Example at 10% of the LEO on Milwaukee police department have gang ties. But they fit what the powers in the city want. They like that kind.
Lot of Black LEO do wrong , but you never see that on the news. I am will to bet you have never honestly had a real problem with a LEO when you did nothing wrong.
If COP. Mayor, City , Fire and police commission, Fail to deal with below standard LEO. They are the ones that should have the world burnt down, the ones drug trough the streets. Not the day to business of the city.


----------



## Slippy

Robie said:


> I have a question.
> 
> I'll put it here instead of starting a new thread.
> 
> Question: Why is it always the group that creates most of the problems...has exponentially the higher violent crime rate....is always the group that yells the loudest about police brutality and unfair treatment?
> 
> Just wondering.....


I will have to admit it, that group sure sticks together and does exactly what their masters tell them. Even if what their masters tell them is totally wrong, based on lies and is irrational. It sure appears that group has an in curable cultural problem that may stem from mental illness at most and mental deficiency at the least. Inbreeding may be the cause of some of this.

Seems to me that this group is more than content to forever be the slaves that they are. Very sad.


----------



## Diver

Smitty901 said:


> This is were you don't get it. Police departments do not hire the best people they hire those that fit a profile. Example at 10% of the LEO on Milwaukee police department have gang ties. But they fit what the powers in the city want. They like that kind.
> Lot of Black LEO do wrong , but you never see that on the news. I am will to bet you have never honestly had a real problem with a LEO when you did nothing wrong.
> If COP. Mayor, City , Fire and police commission, Fail to deal with below standard LEO. They are the ones that should have the world burnt down, the ones drug trough the streets. Not the day to business of the city.


and that is exactly what is wrong. If PDs don't fix this, the situation is only going to get worse.

As for having a problem, you would lose the bet, but not by much, as I have had exactly one problem. A police officer illegally entered my home and when I complained to the PD afterward they refused to investigate. The guy was just an idiot who didn't even know what he was doing was wrong. I could brush off the illegal entry had the PD simply had the courtesy to follow up on my complaint with an apology and assurances it would not happen again. Instead they decided they didn't want my trust.


----------



## SOCOM42

Diver said:


> and that is exactly what is wrong. If PDs don't fix this, the situation is only going to get worse.
> 
> As for having a problem, you would lose the bet, but not by much, as I have had exactly one problem. A police officer illegally entered my home and when I complained to the PD afterward they refused to investigate. The guy was just an idiot who didn't even know what he was doing was wrong. I could brush off the illegal entry had the PD simply had the courtesy to follow up on my complaint with an apology and assurances it would not happen again. Instead they decided they didn't want my trust.


So, you were were just sitting on the couch with your dog watching Lassie come home,

when a brute of a cop kicked in the door for no reason,

other than the fact you had an O'thigger/Biden sign proudly staked out in the yard?

Did he have a warrant????


----------



## Diver

SOCOM42 said:


> So, you were were just sitting on the couch with your dog watching Lassie come home,
> 
> when a brute of a cop kicked in the door for no reason,
> 
> other than the fact you had an O'thigger/Biden sign proudly staked out in the yard?
> 
> Did he have a warrent????


No he didn't have a warrant, and he wasn't a brute. He was a moron. I could overlook the whole thing, but I did file a complaint, which the PD refused to do anything about, proving they would not act on police complaints. The whole problem could have been cleared by simply apologizing and promising it would not happen again. They didn't want to do that. I was more annoyed by the "blue wall of silence" than the actual incident.

Police work requires good judgement. Even good police are going to make mistakes. Bad ones will make worse mistakes and more frequent mistakes. If they are going to hire idiots, and then defend them when they screw up, they should expect bad results and lousy PR.


----------



## SOCOM42

Diver said:


> No he didn't have a warrant, and he wasn't a brute. He was a moron. I could overlook the whole thing, but I did file a complaint, which the PD refused to do anything about, proving they would not act on police complaints. The whole problem could have been cleared by simply apologizing and promising it would not happen again. They didn't want to do that. I was more annoyed by the "blue wall of silence" than the actual incident.
> 
> Police work requires good judgement. Even good police are going to make mistakes. Bad ones will make worse mistakes and more frequent mistakes. If they are going to hire idiots, and then defend them when they screw up, they should expect bad results and lousy PR.


You still did not answer why he was there.

Are you saying that I am an idiot also??? I spent 20 years on a PD.

Plus I was in command positions and acted in overall control while the chief was IOD for a year.

From what you have posted in general, I seems like you would have come off as a troublemaker and ignored.

Let me add this, If you open the door to talk to a PO, it is commonly referenced as an invatation to enter,

Even if that is not the case on your behalf, talk through the door if he has no warrant,

you are obligated to open the door if the warrant is present, ask to stick it under the door.

The open door rule has been used in 100s of cases and still stands.

If no warrant is present you do not even have to talk to him in any manner, just go in another room.


----------



## Smitty901

Diver said:


> and that is exactly what is wrong. If PDs don't fix this, the situation is only going to get worse.
> 
> As for having a problem, you would lose the bet, but not by much, as I have had exactly one problem. A police officer illegally entered my home and when I complained to the PD afterward they refused to investigate. The guy was just an idiot who didn't even know what he was doing was wrong. I could brush off the illegal entry had the PD simply had the courtesy to follow up on my complaint with an apology and assurances it would not happen again. Instead they decided they didn't want my trust.


 They do not want to fix it. They have been working for 60 years to make this happen. They are now close to reaching their goal. What they don't see it it will blow up in their face.


----------



## Piratesailor

Hahaha... I have to laugh. Minneapolis burns and is destroyed.. the mayor denounced trump... now the boy mayor wants trump to bail them out to the tun of 55 million...

I says.. F’um..... let them burn. I’m over it..


----------



## Diver

SOCOM42 said:


> You still did not answer why he was there.
> 
> Are you saying that I am an idiot also??? I spent 20 years on a PD.
> 
> Plus I was in command positions and acted in overall control while the chief was IOD for a year.
> 
> From what you have posted in general, I seems like you would have come off as a troublemaker and ignored.
> 
> Let me add this, If you open the door to talk to a PO, it is commonly referenced as an invatation to enter,
> 
> Even if that is not the case on your behalf, talk through the door if he has no warrant,
> 
> you are obligated to open the door if the warrant is present, ask to stick it under the door.
> 
> The open door rule has been used in 100s of cases and still stands.
> 
> If no warrant is present you do not even have to talk to him in any manner, just go in another room.


I did not open the door. He just walked in through the garage without knocking or in any way announcing his presence. The first I became aware of his presence he was already in the house. The entry was totally illegal and that was my original beef, but the failure by the entire PD to act on my complaint told me that this wasn't just one bad cop, but an entire department that would cover for him.

Did you in your department take complaints seriously? I suspect from the way you so quickly brush me off as a troublemaker that you were a bad cop and trained others to be bad cops.


----------



## SOCOM42

Diver said:


> I did not open the door. He just walked in through the garage without knocking or in any way announcing his presence. The first I became aware of his presence he was already in the house. The entry was totally illegal and that was my original beef, but the failure by the entire PD to act on my complaint told me that this wasn't just one bad cop, but an entire department that would cover for him.
> 
> Did you in your department take complaints seriously? I suspect from the way you so quickly brush me off as a troublemaker that you were a bad cop and trained others to be bad cops.


First off, kiss my A$$, already you have shown your dislike for cops, calling

me a bad cop for calling you out, kiss my A$$ again.

I disregarded those who would call and act like assholes,

did not want to listen to their shit and I did not tolerate being talked down to either.

I stated that from your posting here the bulk of your content would set you off as a troublemaker or now a smartass,

and that attitude would cause you to be dismissed by whoever you complained to,

you could have gone to the local government with the complaint if you saw fit.

There were very few complaints due to our officers on duty,

the few there were resolved in a proper and swift manner including firing two officers over the years.

If the garage was open and the door leading inside the house also, he could under the law enter,

if the house door leading from the garage was closed that is a different matter.

ALL depending on what he was there for in the first place, WHICH YOU AGAIN HAVE NOT DISCLOSED!


----------



## Diver

SOCOM42 said:


> First off, kiss my A$$, already you have shown your dislike for cops, calling
> 
> me a bad cop for calling you out, kiss my A$$ again.
> 
> I disregarded those who would call and act like assholes,
> 
> did not want to listen to their shit and I did not tolerate being talked down to either.
> 
> I stated that from your posting here the bulk of your content would set you off as a troublemaker or now a smartass,
> 
> and that attitude would cause you to be dismissed by whoever you complained to,
> 
> you could have gone to the local government with the complaint if you saw fit.
> 
> There were very few complaints due to our officers on duty,
> 
> the few there were resolved in a proper and swift manner including firing two officers over the years.
> 
> If the garage was open and the door leading inside the house also, he could under the law enter,
> 
> if the house door leading from the garage was closed that is a different matter.
> 
> ALL depending on what he was there for in the first place, WHICH YOU AGAIN HAVE NOT DISCLOSED!


So it is okay for you to call me a "troublemaker" and suggest my one and only police complaint should be ignored, but you get upset when I call you a "bad cop"? then you break down swearing? LOL

and yes the door was closed and he entered illegally.


----------



## Mad Trapper

Diver said:


> So it is okay for you to call me a "troublemaker" and suggest my one and only police complaint should be ignored, but you get upset when I call you a "bad cop"? then you break down swearing? LOL
> 
> and yes the door was closed and he entered illegally.


Put a no trespassing sign at the end of your driveway.


----------



## SOCOM42

Diver said:


> So it is okay for you to call me a "troublemaker" and suggest my one and only police complaint should be ignored, but you get upset when I call you a "bad cop"? then you break down swearing? LOL
> 
> and yes the door was closed and he entered illegally.


YOU STILL DID NOT SAY WHY THE COP WAS THERE! SOMETHING TO HIDE??????

I DID NOT SAY YOU WERE A TROUBLEMAKER I SAID YOU APPEAR TO BE ONE BASED ON THE CONTENT ALL YOUR YOU

POSTINGS, NOT JUST THIS THREAD.

There are many legal reasons he could gain entry with a closed door.

There are always two sides to a story you are only giving us half of one.

And if needed again kiss my ass!

I don't need to continue this conversation with you playing cat and mouse, take your injured self and cry on someone else,

I be done with you.

With almost 8,000 posts and 8 years on here most here know where I stand.


----------



## Diver

SOCOM42 said:


> YOU STILL DID NOT SAY WHY THE COP WAS THERE! SOMETHING TO HIDE??????
> 
> I DID NOT SAY YOU WERE A TROUBLEMAKER I SAID YOU APPEAR TO BE ONE BASED ON THE CONTENT ALL YOUR YOU
> 
> POSTINGS, NOT JUST THIS THREAD.
> 
> There are many legal reasons he could gain entry with a closed door.
> 
> There are always two sides to a story you are only giving us half of one.
> 
> And if needed again kiss my ass!
> 
> I don't need to continue this conversation with you playing cat and mouse, take your injured self and cry on someone else,
> 
> I be done with you.
> 
> With almost 8,000 posts and 8 years on here most here know where I stand.


Okay, so you "appear" to be a bad cop. Does that make you feel better?

You are working overtime to try to defend the cop, who did something clearly illegal. Sounds like more cops closing ranks than cops trying to weed out the bad cops. Thank you for making my point.

BTW: As a cop, you should know I am under no obligation to answer your questions. Why would I want to answer questions for someone who appears to be a bad cop?


----------



## Denton

I am proud to say that this guy is my friend and my brother. He is fearless. Listen to him. He's wiser than his age.


----------



## Kauboy

Diver said:


> Okay, so you "appear" to be a bad cop. Does that make you feel better?
> 
> You are working overtime to try to defend the cop, who did something clearly illegal. Sounds like more cops closing ranks than cops trying to weed out the bad cops. Thank you for making my point.
> 
> BTW: As a cop, you should know I am under no obligation to answer your questions. Why would I want to answer questions for someone who appears to be a bad cop?


I am not now, nor have I ever been, a police officer.
Will you tell *me* why the officer was there?
What he did, and why he was there, are two distinctly different things. You only want us to focus on one.

You are certainly under no obligation to answer. But when *you* choose to share that bit of history about yourself, and then provide nothing of substance about the context, we can come up with all manner of questions to ask, and form our own answers and opinions about you. The only thing you can do to prevent this is answer, or stop sharing.
If you aren't willing to divulge facts, you won't get sympathy. That's not how logical people operate.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

Like others I too am curious on why and at what time did this officer enter your residence through the garage.


----------



## Slippy

So @Diver

Why won't you tell us why the cop entered your home? What was he looking for? C'mon man, what's the rest of the story?

Thanks

Slippy:vs_wave:



Diver said:


> I did not open the door. He just walked in through the garage without knocking or in any way announcing his presence. The first I became aware of his presence he was already in the house. The entry was totally illegal and that was my original beef, but the failure by the entire PD to act on my complaint told me that this wasn't just one bad cop, but an entire department that would cover for him.
> 
> Did you in your department take complaints seriously? I suspect from the way you so quickly brush me off as a troublemaker that you were a bad cop and trained others to be bad cops.


----------



## Diver

Kauboy said:


> I am not now, nor have I ever been, a police officer.
> Will you tell *me* why the officer was there?
> What he did, and why he was there, are two distinctly different things. You only want us to focus on one.
> 
> You are certainly under no obligation to answer. But when *you* choose to share that bit of history about yourself, and then provide nothing of substance about the context, we can come up with all manner of questions to ask, and form our own answers and opinions about you. The only thing you can do to prevent this is answer, or stop sharing.
> If you aren't willing to divulge facts, you won't get sympathy. That's not how logical people operate.


You started off politely, but finish poorly. Your only reason for wanting more facts is to confirm your view that I am somehow to blame for what occurred, so you can dismiss my point that police have poor PR and stick to your belief that they are all good guys.

All I will say is I have no complaint about the officer knocking on my door. My complaint is he had no legal justification for entering without knocking and receiving permission. Had he simply knocked, there would have been no issue. Had the police department followed up on his illegal entry with a simple apology, and assurance that it would not be repeated, again, no issue. I will also add that I have no criminal history, and haven't even had a traffic ticket in decades. From a police perspective I am pretty boring.

Perhaps you want to go to YouTube and enter the search term "illegal entry by police" to see some more interesting cases. 

My original point was that police have a PR problem. Do you think cities would be discussing dismantling of police departments if the police had good PR?


----------



## Mad Trapper

I heard a rumor that @Diver, came home with a bushel full of stuff from Dunkin Doughnuts, and the officer followed the irresistible aroma from the garage into the house..........:vs_laugh:


----------



## Sasquatch

White privilege is real.









Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Kauboy

Diver said:


> You started off politely, but finish poorly. Your only reason for wanting more facts is to confirm your view that I am somehow to blame for what occurred, so you can dismiss my point that police have poor PR and stick to your belief that they are all good guys.
> 
> All I will say is I have no complaint about the officer knocking on my door. My complaint is he had no legal justification for entering without knocking and receiving permission. Had he simply knocked, there would have been no issue. Had the police department followed up on his illegal entry with a simple apology, and assurance that it would not be repeated, again, no issue. I will also add that I have no criminal history, and haven't even had a traffic ticket in decades. From a police perspective I am pretty boring.
> 
> Perhaps you want to go to YouTube and enter the search term "illegal entry by police" to see some more interesting cases.
> 
> My original point was that police have a PR problem. Do you think cities would be discussing dismantling of police departments if the police had good PR?


I wasn't seeking to be polite, nor impolite.

Again, you only want us to focus on one thing. It is exactly the same as the country being set on fire every time a 20 second video clip is released, when the later release of a 10 minute precursor completely alters the original narrative. You only want us to see the end, not the impetus that lead to that end.
Again, you will receive no sympathy, and garner little support as a result.
Feel free to stop sharing if you are not willing to share the whole story.

Do no assume you know my intentions or beliefs, nor suggest that I go looking for additional information. Other videos on YT are irrelevant to the context of YOUR interaction, which is what you are using as your foundation for your position stated on this board. That is why the facts of YOUR story are important, and not those of other interactions.


----------



## Diver

Kauboy said:


> I wasn't seeking to be polite, nor impolite.
> 
> Again, you only want us to focus on one thing. It is exactly the same as the country being set on fire every time a 20 second video clip is released, when the later release of a 10 minute precursor completely alters the original narrative. You only want us to see the end, not the impetus that lead to that end.
> Again, you will receive no sympathy, and garner little support as a result.
> Feel free to stop sharing if you are not willing to share the whole story.
> 
> Do no assume you know my intentions or beliefs, nor suggest that I go looking for additional information. Other videos on YT are irrelevant to the context of YOUR interaction, which is what you are using as your foundation for your position stated on this board. That is why the facts of YOUR story are important, and not those of other interactions.


Your intentions are quite clear from earlier in the thread. I don't need your sympathy.

YouTube is relevant from the standpoint of seeing that cops making illegal, warrantless, entries to homes is common. I don't have immunity from cops behaving illegally.

The fact that cops do not recognize the sanctity of a home and the necessity for warrants or permission to enter is one of the big drivers behind public dissatisfaction with police. One of the reforms being sought is a complete end to no knock raids, which I agree with. too many of these turn out to be on the wrong house, or are based on an anonymous tip with no investigation, and leave a trail of broken doors and windows, dead dogs, and terrorized children. Until I was a young adult, these didn't happen, but they became legalized by a couple Supreme Court decisions when the number of such raids per year was expected to be about 10 nationwide. Now we have got 80,000 per year and no knock raids have become very much the standard. Given some of the botched raids in recent years, I expect some sort of reform of no knock raids to be part of the package.

Given the number of raids and the percentages that result in no arrests, and no contraband found, the number of botched raids appears to be about 15-20,000 per year. It's a safe bet that once a family has been swatted with no compensation and no discipline of the police involved, that they lose all trust in the police.


----------



## Slippy

Diver said:


> Your intentions are quite clear from earlier in the thread. I don't need your sympathy.
> 
> YouTube is relevant from the standpoint of seeing that cops making illegal, warrantless, entries to homes is common. I don't have immunity from cops behaving illegally.
> 
> The fact that cops do not recognize the sanctity of a home and the necessity for warrants or permission to enter is one of the big drivers behind public dissatisfaction with police. One of the reforms being sought is a complete end to no knock raids, which I agree with. too many of these turn out to be on the wrong house, or are based on an anonymous tip with no investigation, and leave a trail of broken doors and windows, dead dogs, and terrorized children. Until I was a young adult, these didn't happen, but they became legalized by a couple Supreme Court decisions when the number of such raids per year was expected to be about 10 nationwide. Now we have got 80,000 per year and no knock raids have become very much the standard. Given some of the botched raids in recent years, I expect some sort of reform of no knock raids to be part of the package.
> 
> Given the number of raids and the percentages that result in no arrests, and no contraband found, the number of botched raids appears to be about 15-20,000 per year. It's a safe bet that once a family has been swatted with no compensation and no discipline of the police involved, that they lose all trust in the police.


C'mon @Diver

Quit avoiding the question. What were the cops looking for when they entered your home? Drugs? Child Porn? Dead ***** Storage? Fess up why dontcha! :vs_closedeyes:


----------



## StratMaster

Diver said:


> You started off politely, but finish poorly. Your only reason for wanting more facts is to confirm your view that I am somehow to blame for what occurred, so you can dismiss my point that police have poor PR and stick to your belief that they are all good guys.


Nonsense. I myself do not harbor any such irrational beliefs. You've just bored me to the point where I no longer care about your story. You've been asked three times for that information, and each time you respond "he entered illegally". That stubborn omission by itself is plainly suspicious: that it has become like pulling teeth. And there ARE exigent circumstances whereas an office COULD do exactly as he did. Those could be eliminated or identified with the whole story.

https://www.ucmjdefense.com/resourc...zation-requirement/exigent-circumstances.html


----------



## Kauboy

Diver said:


> Your intentions are quite clear from earlier in the thread. I don't need your sympathy.
> 
> YouTube is relevant from the standpoint of seeing that cops making illegal, warrantless, entries to homes is common. I don't have immunity from cops behaving illegally.
> 
> The fact that cops do not recognize the sanctity of a home and the necessity for warrants or permission to enter is one of the big drivers behind public dissatisfaction with police. One of the reforms being sought is a complete end to no knock raids, which I agree with. too many of these turn out to be on the wrong house, or are based on an anonymous tip with no investigation, and leave a trail of broken doors and windows, dead dogs, and terrorized children. Until I was a young adult, these didn't happen, but they became legalized by a couple Supreme Court decisions when the number of such raids per year was expected to be about 10 nationwide. Now we have got 80,000 per year and no knock raids have become very much the standard. Given some of the botched raids in recent years, I expect some sort of reform of no knock raids to be part of the package.
> 
> Given the number of raids and the percentages that result in no arrests, and no contraband found, the number of botched raids appears to be about 15-20,000 per year. It's a safe bet that once a family has been swatted with no compensation and no discipline of the police involved, that they lose all trust in the police.


More comments that are irrelevant to your situation.

If you weren't seeking sympathy, you would have left out your personal business and stuck to the facts of other interactions. At least then you could pick and choose how you wanted to drive the conversation.
The fact is, you speak in generalities about a group of individuals, condemning them all due to the actions of a few. You have a personal stake in it because you feel you were wronged, and perhaps you were. You won't lend credence to your claim, so we get to assume whatever we want. Perhaps you were pleasuring yourself with loud pornography, and the screams of the female actor lead the officer to believe violence was being done, so he ran in and found you fiddling your pud.
You can claim whatever you want, but without the real story, that's just as real of a possibility. Yes, he would be technically wrong, since no crime was being committed, but he would also be wrong for not checking. Officer discretion dictates if he must knock and allow you time to finish murdering the person, or if he gets to enter and find you in a state of pathetic shame.

Nobody here is in disagreement that certain practices should be stopped.
No-knock warrants are dangerous for citizens and police. Knees to the neck are potentially fatal. Employing officers who fear for their lives in every interaction is probably a bad idea.
Believing all officers are to blame for these things is just asinine. Playing the victim resolves nothing.

So... what *where* you doing that attributed to first contact? I've got my version of events. Care to correct them?


----------



## Diver

Kauboy said:


> More comments that are irrelevant to your situation.
> 
> If you weren't seeking sympathy, you would have left out your personal business and stuck to the facts of other interactions. At least then you could pick and choose how you wanted to drive the conversation.
> The fact is, you speak in generalities about a group of individuals, condemning them all due to the actions of a few. You have a personal stake in it because you feel you were wronged, and perhaps you were. You won't lend credence to your claim, so we get to assume whatever we want. Perhaps you were pleasuring yourself with loud pornography, and the screams of the female actor lead the officer to believe violence was being done, so he ran in and found you fiddling your pud.
> You can claim whatever you want, but without the real story, that's just as real of a possibility. Yes, he would be technically wrong, since no crime was being committed, but he would also be wrong for not checking. Officer discretion dictates if he must knock and allow you time to finish murdering the person, or if he gets to enter and find you in a state of pathetic shame.
> 
> Nobody here is in disagreement that certain practices should be stopped.
> No-knock warrants are dangerous for citizens and police. Knees to the neck are potentially fatal. Employing officers who fear for their lives in every interaction is probably a bad idea.
> Believing all officers are to blame for these things is just asinine. Playing the victim resolves nothing.
> 
> So... what *where* you doing that attributed to first contact? I've got my version of events. Care to correct them?


Since you insist. The officer was following up on a false claim by a teenager, who was on probation and later proved to be psychotic. I was sitting quietly in my home when the officer arrived and entered unannounced. The teenager is now in his 30s and has done time. He's been arrested about twice a year since. Again, if the cop had knocked on the door, all would have been fine.


----------



## Slippy

Diver said:


> Since you insist. The officer was following up on a false claim by a teenager, who was on probation and later proved to be psychotic. I was sitting quietly in my home when the officer arrived and entered unannounced. The teenager is now in his 30s and has done time. He's been arrested about twice a year since. Again, if the cop had knocked on the door, all would have been fine.


So what did the teenager claim you did or had? Drugs? Child Porn? or Dead ***** Storage?

Thanks

Slip:vs_blush:


----------



## StratMaster




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## stevekozak

Slippy said:


> C'mon @Diver
> 
> Quit avoiding the question. What were the cops looking for when they entered your home? Drugs? Child Porn? Dead ***** Storage? Fess up why dontcha! :vs_closedeyes:


My guess is two of those things, and DNS is not one of them.....


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## stevekozak

StratMaster said:


> Nonsense. I myself do not harbor any such irrational beliefs. You've just bored me to the point where I no longer care about your story. You've been asked three times for that information, and each time you respond "he entered illegally". That stubborn omission by itself is plainly suspicious: that it has become like pulling teeth. And there ARE exigent circumstances whereas an office COULD do exactly as he did. Those could be eliminated or identified with the whole story.
> 
> https://www.ucmjdefense.com/resourc...zation-requirement/exigent-circumstances.html


You are not saying he is a lying sack of shit, are you? Because that would be wrong to do.... :whistling:


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## stevekozak

Slippy said:


> So what did the teenager claim you did or had? Drugs? Child Porn? or Dead ***** Storage?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Slip:vs_blush:


I think the mystery is solved....


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## StratMaster

stevekozak said:


> You are not saying he is a lying sack of shit, are you? Because that would be wrong to do.... :whistling:


I'll go so far as to say he's an "omitting" sack of some suspiciously odiferous, yet to be identified substance. That's all the information I have.


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## Kauboy

Diver said:


> Since you insist. The officer was following up on a false claim by a teenager, who was on probation and later proved to be psychotic. I was sitting quietly in my home when the officer arrived and entered unannounced. The teenager is now in his 30s and has done time. He's been arrested about twice a year since. Again, if the cop had knocked on the door, all would have been fine.


Thanks!
That's a good start.
The nature of the complainant is largely irrelevant though. Every complaint must be followed up on if the nature of the possible crime is severe enough.
*IF* that is truly all that happened, then the officer had no business entering your property unannounced and without permission or sufficient probable cause. Unless the complaint was that you were actively killing someone at that moment...

Not to poke the bear too much, but what was the complaint?
Did you run our of weed to sell, and the teen was mad? It's ok, I won't tell anyone.


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## Diver

Kauboy said:


> Thanks!
> That's a good start.
> The nature of the complainant is largely irrelevant though. Every complaint must be followed up on if the nature of the possible crime is severe enough.
> *IF* that is truly all that happened, then the officer had no business entering your property unannounced and without permission or sufficient probable cause. Unless the complaint was that you were actively killing someone at that moment...
> 
> Not to poke the bear too much, but what was the complaint?
> Did you run our of weed to sell, and the teen was mad? It's ok, I won't tell anyone.


Thank you. You seem to be getting it. The teenager is now classified as a paranoid schizophrenic. The way mental illnesses are defined in the DSM, one has to exhibit a certain number of behaviors, i.e. if you have five out of seven characteristics, you qualify as a certain diagnosis. The reason why mental illness tends to manifest in late teens and early adults, is that younger individuals are still working through the list, e.g. perhaps four out of seven behaviors have occurred, but the fifth is yet to come. They are referred to as "pre" whatever the ultimate diagnosis turns out to be, so at the time this young fellow was "pre-schizophrenic". At the time, he had been arrested once, and was on probation for a vandalism event. I wasn't present when the teenager made his statements and the cop was not forthcoming about what the teenager claimed.

Unfortunately, mental illness is an area where cops are poorly trained.


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## Kauboy

Diver said:


> Thank you. You seem to be getting it. The teenager is now classified as a paranoid schizophrenic. The way mental illnesses are defined in the DSM, one has to exhibit a certain number of behaviors, i.e. if you have five out of seven characteristics, you qualify as a certain diagnosis. The reason why mental illness tends to manifest in late teens and early adults, is that younger individuals are still working through the list, e.g. perhaps four out of seven behaviors have occurred, but the fifth is yet to come. They are referred to as "pre" whatever the ultimate diagnosis turns out to be, so at the time this young fellow was "pre-schizophrenic". At the time, he had been arrested once, and was on probation for a vandalism event. I wasn't present when the teenager made his statements and the cop was not forthcoming about what the teenager claimed.
> 
> Unfortunately, mental illness is an area where cops are poorly trained.


I will reiterate, the nature of the complainant is largely irrelevant. If a homeless, degenerate, drug addict, who flashes women in the park tells an officer that somebody is being killed in an apartment across the street, the officer is obliged to take heed.
In case I wasn't clear, I don't care about the mental state of the teen. The cop must follow through as an act of his professional duties.
Depending on the complaint issued, he has discretion about how to engage in the interaction with you.
If life or limb is immediately at stake, he does not need to knock or announce.

After the issue is resolved, you should certainly seek details and assurances. But I cannot yet fault the officer for his actions without knowing the specific complaint. I can find fault in the aftermath, but not the act yet.


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## Denton

@Diver, did you say what the allegation was? If so, I seem to be missing it.


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## Diver

Kauboy said:


> I will reiterate, the nature of the complainant is largely irrelevant. If a homeless, degenerate, drug addict, who flashes women in the park tells an officer that somebody is being killed in an apartment across the street, the officer is obliged to take heed.
> In case I wasn't clear, I don't care about the mental state of the teen. The cop must follow through as an act of his professional duties.
> Depending on the complaint issued, he has discretion about how to engage in the interaction with you.
> If life or limb is immediately at stake, he does not need to knock or announce.
> 
> After the issue is resolved, you should certainly seek details and assurances. But I cannot yet fault the officer for his actions without knowing the specific complaint. I can find fault in the aftermath, but not the act yet.


I understand the officer needs to follow up on complaints. It would have been much appreciated if the PD had followed up on my complaint, which they refused to do until it became apparent I was ready to sue.


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## Diver

Denton said:


> @Diver, did you say what the allegation was? If so, I seem to be missing it.


I said that I was not present when the teenager made his complaint and the conversation with the officer was mostly about his trespassing, so I don't know, but I do know he is psychotic. No matter what the complaint was, the officer had no right to enter without permission.

At this point I am done with this forum. Maybe I'll see you in a few more years, maybe not.


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## Denton

Diver said:


> I said that I was not present when the teenager made his complaint and the conversation with the officer was mostly about his trespassing, so I don't know, but I do know he is psychotic. No matter what the complaint was, the officer had no right to enter without permission.


So, the cop entered your dwelling and didn't question you about anything in specific?

Your knowledge of his psychosis is irrelevant to the incident. The allegation is relevant.


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## Kauboy

Diver said:


> No matter what the complaint was, the officer had no right to enter without permission.


That's the part where you are factually and legally incorrect.
You do not have complete and total control of entry onto your property if you are committing a heinous act of violence against another human being. That is a fallacy.
The complaint matters tremendously.


Diver said:


> At this point I am done with this forum. Maybe I'll see you in a few more years, maybe not.


Seems petty that you'd leave over one issue.
I guess if that's the only issue that brought you back, you should have chosen a different corner of the internet than a PREPPER FORUM.


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## Steve40th

Wow, quite the thread. I am trying to grasp what really happened. Usually we get facts and allot of videos when something like this happens. Less facts when they dont want you to know what really happened. He was pretty lit on drugs, as his toxicolgy report shows. He was COVID 19 positive too.
What happened to George was wrong, from what I saw and heard. I do believe the facts will tell a different story... 
My thoughts are he was arrested, resisted and the drugs he was on didnt make him easily cuffed and put in car. After much resisting and wrestling with him, the cops got him down, and commenced a legal maneuver via neck restraint, legal per Minnesota law.. I also feel it was excessive at the time, based on what I saw.
Based on whats going on in our country, I feel something is definitely off on this. And the Dems definitely took advantage of it. Antifa has too.. Its ugly out there.
And 2nd degree murder charges are, in my opinion, too much. Why? Because you have to prove intent. What happens if he is acquitted because Prosecutor cant prove intent. RIOTS, right before election.
I searched and searched for videos, but this questionable site has some.. Makes ya wonder.. It is a long couple videos on this link.. 
Again, FACTS please..
https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-06-08-george-floyd-death-faked-crisis-actors-psyop.html


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## Prepared One

Diver said:


> At this point I am done with this forum. Maybe I'll see you in a few more years, maybe not.


OK then, see ya, or maybe not. :tango_face_grin:


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## Kauboy

Steve40th said:


> And 2nd degree murder charges are, in my opinion, too much. Why? Because you have to prove intent. What happens if he is acquitted because Prosecutor cant prove intent. RIOTS, right before election.


This won't see a courtroom for a year, but the rest of your point was exactly what struck me when I heard they upgraded the charge from 3rd to 2nd degree.
They likely had him dead to rights on 3rd degree as Minn. law defines it.
But a requirement to prove intent on a 2nd degree charge is much harder to get beyond reasonable doubt.
Remember, the LA riots started AFTER the officers were acquitted.
If it looks bad now, just wait for THAT outcome.


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## Mad Trapper

Some satire on the current situation:

NEW YORK, NY—In response to a growing anti-police sentiment, McGruff the Crime Dog has been taken to the vet and put down.

“We just didn’t feel safe with him around,” said activist Ray Clarke, one of the people who demanded McGruff be euthanized. “He was always urging people to ‘Take a bite out of crime,’ and we don’t need more violence like that from law enforcement. He has to die.”
McGruff had long educated people on measures they can take against crime but had recently been criticized for not caring about the racial disparity of his bites out of crime and for his association with the police. That’s why euthanizing McGruff became a part of “defunding the police,” even though technically it was a measure that cost more money (the vet charged $150).
Defenders of McGruff argued that McGruff could just be retired and live on a farm working as a P.I. instead of being put down — or that at least they didn’t need to tell McGruff he was a “bad, bad dog” before the injection, but activists wouldn’t relent, and the euthanization happened as planned. A small memorial was erected for McGruff, and it has already been vandalized.


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## Prepared One

Kauboy said:


> This won't see a courtroom for a year, but the rest of your point was exactly what struck me when I heard they upgraded the charge from 3rd to 2nd degree.
> They likely had him dead to rights on 3rd degree as Minn. law defines it.
> But a requirement to prove intent on a 2nd degree charge is much harder to get beyond reasonable doubt.
> Remember, the LA riots started AFTER the officers were acquitted.
> If it looks bad now, just wait for THAT outcome.


Putting my tin foil hat on I would say that this is the plan all along. They can't get it done before the election but should Trump win, this little baby will be in their back pocket. I know, I know, it's just to wild and fanciful to contemplate. :vs_smile:


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## Real Old Man

Steve40th said:


> Wow, quite the thread. I am trying to grasp what really happened. Usually we get facts and allot of videos when something like this happens. Less facts when they dont want you to know what really happened. He was pretty lit on drugs, as his toxicolgy report shows. He was COVID 19 positive too.
> What happened to George was wrong, from what I saw and heard. I do believe the facts will tell a different story...
> My thoughts are he was arrested, resisted and the drugs he was on didnt make him easily cuffed and put in car. After much resisting and wrestling with him, the cops got him down, and commenced a legal maneuver via neck restraint, legal per Minnesota law.. I also feel it was excessive at the time, based on what I saw.
> Based on whats going on in our country, I feel something is definitely off on this. And the Dems definitely took advantage of it. Antifa has too.. Its ugly out there.
> And 2nd degree murder charges are, in my opinion, too much. Why? Because you have to prove intent. What happens if he is acquitted because Prosecutor cant prove intent. RIOTS, right before election.
> I searched and searched for videos, but this questionable site has some.. Makes ya wonder.. It is a long couple videos on this link..
> Again, FACTS please..
> https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-06-08-george-floyd-death-faked-crisis-actors-psyop.html


I think if you look at the video from the store front where they take him out of his car, the officer that escorts him to the side walk asks if he is on anything.

If he had said yeah I took Fentanyl and Meth, they would have known to have the rescue squad show up with Narcan. But since he didn't they didn't use it on him.


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## Green Lilly

Mad Trapper said:


> Some satire on the current situation:
> 
> NEW YORK, NY-In response to a growing anti-police sentiment, McGruff the Crime Dog has been taken to the vet and put down.
> 
> "We just didn't feel safe with him around," said activist Ray Clarke, one of the people who demanded McGruff be euthanized. "He was always urging people to 'Take a bite out of crime,' and we don't need more violence like that from law enforcement. He has to die."
> McGruff had long educated people on measures they can take against crime but had recently been criticized for not caring about the racial disparity of his bites out of crime and for his association with the police. That's why euthanizing McGruff became a part of "defunding the police," even though technically it was a measure that cost more money (the vet charged $150).
> Defenders of McGruff argued that McGruff could just be retired and live on a farm working as a P.I. instead of being put down - or that at least they didn't need to tell McGruff he was a "bad, bad dog" before the injection, but activists wouldn't relent, and the euthanization happened as planned. A small memorial was erected for McGruff, and it has already been vandalized.


I know your comment was satire but the crazy thing is I read an article the other day that one municipality actually changed protocol in regards to their canine unit and will no longer allow the canines to take down or apprehend suspects. I will try and go back and find it.


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## Real Old Man

Diver said:


> No he didn't have a warrant, and he wasn't a brute. He was a moron. I could overlook the whole thing, but I did file a complaint, which the PD refused to do anything about, proving they would not act on police complaints. The whole problem could have been cleared by simply apologizing and promising it would not happen again. They didn't want to do that. I was more annoyed by the "blue wall of silence" than the actual incident.
> 
> Police work requires good judgement. Even good police are going to make mistakes. Bad ones will make worse mistakes and more frequent mistakes. If they are going to hire idiots, and then defend them when they screw up, they should expect bad results and lousy PR.


Did they ever tell you why he'd been sent to your address? What the nature of the original complaint was?

I know that I'd been sent on any number of check the welfare calls; some were kind of scary til we got to the bottom of them where they turned out to be nothing to one where a gent with cancer had bled out from vomiting.

You do have a right to ask for and receive an answer as to why they were there. They may not have to tell you who the complainant was, but .

As for the sanity of the individual that filed the complaint. The police need to treat him as totally sane unless they've had prior contacts that indicate otherwise.


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## Slippy

On a Positive Note; 

George Floyd has been drug free and not committed a crime in over 3 months! :tango_face_grin:


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## stevekozak

Slippy said:


> On a Positive Note;
> 
> George Floyd has been drug free and not committed a crime in over 3 months! :tango_face_grin:


One day at a time, brother, one day at a time....:tango_face_wink:


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