# American Legion or Veterans of Foreign War's.



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

In the North Florida area the VFW's are mostly just Bars. I donate time to Dinners and Pancake Breakfast's for the WWII Vet's, but for the most part the VFW's are just bars. The Am Legion on the other hand has a Yacht Club that all the surrounding Yacht Clubs Honor Membership to and don't charge other fee's. The area Am Legion has a swimming pool and exercise faculty. Yes, they are also a bar, and also host dining events. The local Fleet Reserve is also a Bar that hosts dining events. Why should I pay dues to either the VFW or Am Legion when I have local pubs that serve better food and don't require dues? Which do you belong to and/or prefer?


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I am a Navy veteran but don't meet the requirements for either organization. I'm going to form my own club. With a KEWL fort and neat-o things. No girls allowed.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I have not been an active member is either. The neighbor couple across the street from me are big time Legion members and registered me as a member for a couple of years, but just not my thing. I will say this about the American Legion and the VFW somewhat, they will advocate on your behalf when it comes to the VA and other veterans issues, especially claims.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Life time member of Both. I would have quit the Legion had I not been life time member. Few years back they gave Nancy a platform to use and held her up as a friend to veterans . they are a sell out.
Your are right many of the buildings they occupy are bars. The VFW works hard to promote veterans rights with in the political system. The Legion and VFW do a lot to help vets in nursing homes and those in need of care. We have a group in our VFW that have put 200,000 miles on transporting vets to medical care and visiting those in for care over the years out of their own and our chapters pocket. The dues are cheap insurance. Kind of like the NRA. Their are a lot of good people in both the VFW and Legion working their ass off for others. 
Needed to join the legion.
To join the American Legion, you must have served at least one day on ACTIVE DUTY during any of these periods of conflict:

April 6, 1917 to November 11, 1918 (World War I)
December 7, 1941 to December 31, 1946 (World War II)
June 25, 1950 to January 31, 1955 (Korean War) 
February 28, 1961 to May 7, 1975 (Vietnam War) 
August 24, 1982 to July 31, 1984 (Lebanon/Grenada) 
December 20, 1989 to January 31, 1990 (Operation Just Cause - Panama)
*August 2, 1990 to today (Operation Desert Shield/Storm/Iraqi Freedom)

A copy of your DD214 showing dates and character of service is required at application.

This infomation is available online at Join The American Legion | The American Legion

To join VFW:
If you have received a campaign medal for overseas service; have served 30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive days in Korea; or have ever received hostile fire or imminent danger pay, then you're eligible to join our ranks.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

Never been a member of either...when I was eligible..I went down to be a member. They questioned my war experience as not being a real war....so I walked away...after several more tours in new wars and a second CIB....I haven't given them another thought.

Just another place for drinking and "Back when I was in the shit" stories....

Not interested.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Was a member of both the AL and the VFW in my area. Both were just bars with guys sitting on the barstools there for the cheap alcohol. After my initial membership dues ran out I didn't bother renewing. Got better things to do.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

New guy 101 said:


> Never been a member of either...when I was eligible..I went down to be a member. They questioned my war experience as not being a real war....so I walked away...after several more tours in new wars and a second CIB....I haven't given them another thought.
> 
> Just another place for drinking and "Back when I was in the shit" stories....
> 
> Not interested.


 Come join us nothing like that. We help other vets, we serve the community and Honor those that have past and their families. never heard a back with I was in the shit story.
Large number of our members are Korean era . Duties are being pas to a new generation more and more.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

My signature line indicates my memberships.
I became a member of Vietnam Veterans of America first, in 1982. I am now a life member. I have held every local office including commander multiple times (except finance).
When I moved to our present location in the mid 90's, there was no VVA chapter, so I joined VFW. It was OK for a few years, until the drunks got together and voted each other into office. I keep my membership active, because I earned it the hard way, but I haven't been to the post in quite a while.

The VFW drunks caused a group of us to form an AMVETS post. I have held a number of positions, including post commander.

4 years ago, a group of us started a local American Legion post. Decent guys, mainly younger, Gulf War and post 9/11. I have managed to avoid holding office so far. :tango_face_smile:

But, first and foremost, my allegiance is to VVA. The national motto is "In Service To America" and here at the local level that is a big part of our chapter - community service. The VVA founding principle is "Never Again Will One Generation Of Veterans Abandon Another." This is in reference to the way we were treated by a very large number of WWII guys, back in the day. 
But the best thing, in my mind, written into the VVA constitution is a prohibition against a chapter having a bar. No drunks telling war stories here. No Billy Bad Asses wearing leather vests, head wraps, unkempt beards and pony tails. Just good guys doing good things.

My membership in the Society of the 5th Infantry Division is also Life.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

The little town I live next to has AL. Pretty much a dive bar for an "exclusive" group, although they do participate in town functions like parades and homecoming.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Brothers, I have made the requirements for all the above organizations. I have even had well meaning members contribute my dues. But long ago I decided that the only bars I would grace would be with the accompaniment of COMNAVKITCHENSINK. (Yes she also meet the standards) These organizations gave the members of the Greatest Silent Generation a place to gather and whisper when they needed a little brotherly Love. Their objective was to shelter the ones they loved from the horror of the Combat they had endured. A noble cause. (Honest) But there are organizations that are far superior to speaking for today's veterans than those that came with or before NAM. (No Disrespect intended) Veterans assisting Veterans is only expected in my life experience, but Organizations that demand that you are a Veteran of specific conflicts, well I might thumb my nose at them even if I more than made their requirements. Yes, I use this forum to be my link to other Vet's while I'm tossing back a few. But unlike the brick buildings of the past, I don't need to wait around for the biggest Marine decides to have a few and take a poke at the FROGMAN at the end of the bar.

I've been contacted daily by the Quartermaster of the local VFW, (Got to love them Gunnies) But what are we going to do to make these organizations more inclusive of all the Veterans of our times? As long as I was in, the only requirement was that you had an American Flag on your sleeve. The time has come to drop the elitist requirements and call a Vet a Vet. JMHO. I understand that I may be bending the ears of some of the more respected mod's on this forum, but they all went back for guy's that didn't make the requirements of the VFW or Am Legion, and if they didn't they would have. JMO.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Trolling again, are we?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Trolling again, are we?


This could well be our first direct conflict RPD. Ain't a thing about trolling in what I've stated. Should you care to defend either organization as more than just a bar for those of certain elitist actions of war, perhaps the time has come to bump heads. I'll give ground on any action that benefited any Veteran of any time. But my own Brother-in-law has been the Commandant of all the above Organizations. Should you prove that they are nothing more than Elitist Taverns, I'll concede.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

If you have a beef with any veterans organization, that's your problem and not mine.
Now, you'll have to excuse me, I'm on my way to bed.
Good night.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Sleep well Rice Paddy Daddy, I have no beef, nor shall I pay dues to an elitist organization even if they consider me a spotlighted member.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> My signature line indicates my memberships.
> I became a member of Vietnam Veterans of America first, in 1982. I am now a life member. I have held every local office including commander multiple times (except finance).
> When I moved to our present location in the mid 90's, there was no VVA chapter, so I joined VFW. It was OK for a few years, until the drunks got together and voted each other into office. I keep my membership active, because I earned it the hard way, but I haven't been to the post in quite a while.
> 
> ...


RPD, I'm pretty sure you know me, and know how I have stated that I firmly believe the soldiers of today owe all of the positive media and the absence of anti soldier actions to our Vietnam era vets, as well as the vets from previous wars who stood for them.

It is because they said never again that today it is taboo of the most grievous nature to slander soldiers. It is those vets that inspired me to serve...and who kept me from feeling the liberal wrath... I am forever grateful and very honored to be a fellow brother in arms, having served...

But now is where I will probably piss folks off. We are turning into a nation of victims.... I know PTSD is real...I understand...but we have become a nation of oh the poor poor pitiful vets and it pisses me off...

I love my fore father warriors... But you can't find a single person who was a cook, supply clerk, or fiance clerk during Vietnam... everybody I have ever met was knee deep in brass, deep in the jungle, surrounded by Charlie. They are all Ranger, LRRP, Sniper, 0300, 11B MAC-V SOG, CIA commandos who ran raids deep into Laos.

I am convinced we lost the vietnam war based on lack of Mail clerks keeping the soldiers moral up...and of course good food and pay. Why? we had none...they were all doing covert ops.

The same is true today of my generation. everyone has PTSD and should only be awakened with a 10 foot pole behind lexan glass. Everybody chooses to be a damn victim, because its special.....Oh and you won't find any finance clerks in my army either...especially down town on a Saturday night.

This is why I choose not to join any organization....Just like food stamps...the more you offer...the more takers you will find...Helping soldiers? I'm for it...but I profess a harder form of love than usual.. I say shake that shit off and go be something..choose to be a victim or a survivor....victims form a line at the VA....survivors...well, we are done standing in lines.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

You have a lot of snide remarks in your statements New guy 101. 

"But now is where I will probably piss folks off. We are turning into a nation of victims.... I know PTSD is real...I understand...but we have become a nation of oh the poor poor pitiful vets and it pisses me off..."

B.S. America just finally got smart after Vietnam and realized there hippy liberal asses were wrong disrespecting our vets during the Vietnam wall.

"I love my fore father warriors... But you can't find a single person who was a cook, supply clerk, or fiance clerk during Vietnam... everybody I have ever met was knee deep in brass, deep in the jungle, surrounded by Charlie. They are all Ranger, LRRP, Sniper, 0300, 11B MAC-V SOG, CIA commandos who ran raids deep into Laos. I am convinced we lost the vietnam war based on lack of Mail clerks keeping the soldiers moral up...and of course good food and pay. Why? we had none...they were all doing covert ops."

Another B.S., yeah there were a lot of ground pounders but it takes the REMF's to keep the combat guys going. Just because your a cook doesn't mean you haven't seen combat. When Charlie was hitting the fences it was everyone on alert and in combat.

"The same is true today of my generation. everyone has PTSD and should only be awakened with a 10 foot pole behind lexan glass. Everybody chooses to be a damn victim, because its special.....Oh and you won't find any finance clerks in my army either...especially down town on a Saturday night." 

Just because you don't have PTSD don't knock those that do. A lot of the mental health issues were never diagnosed in the past were because they didn't know better. Now that research has been done, its medically proven.

"This is why I choose not to join any organization....Just like food stamps...the more you offer...the more takers you will find...Helping soldiers? I'm for it...but I profess a harder form of love than usual.. I say shake that shit off and go be something..choose to be a victim or a survivor....victims form a line at the VA....survivors...well, we are done standing in lines."

Just like food stamps and shake the shit off, victims form a line at the VA. What I would like to say to you is **** off but I don't want to get banned so I wont. Soldiers serve and earn the benefits. They serve so the ignorant spoon fed, taking advantage of freedom people can be free and enjoy the quality of life they do. Personally, I served 16 years. I got screwed on a medical and after 3 years of waiting on VA I got a 100% rating. In that time period I had to file bankruptcy and had to deal with a lot of other crap. So you know what screw you.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> You have a lot of snide remarks in your statements New guy 101.
> 
> "But now is where I will probably piss folks off. We are turning into a nation of victims.... I know PTSD is real...I understand...but we have become a nation of oh the poor poor pitiful vets and it pisses me off..."
> 
> ...


I must have completely failed at communicating my thoughts ...

My words were to convey I KNOW there are more direct support folks and they are equally important...my words were that in 40 plus years I have never met one who says that's what he was. I respect all who serve and they should respect themselves enough to say how they served, instead of everybody being a SPECOPS guy.

PTSD...I know many.... 11 tours buddy and not a friend one not affected...I know many, but the best of them get on with life...The pussy folks I know of, who got PTSD from hearing about an ambush that someone they knew had a friend who died in...Oh yes...That is happening more often than you know...

Well I ain't playing the pity party game... Sure medical professionals and science are catching up...and that's becoming the crutch of today...instead of acknowledging...I saw or did some messed up stuff and moving on...we just Dwell the hell out of it. This idea actually hurts those who have severe PTSD... With every body a victim, those who need it most have to wade thru the BS.

You obviously have a story to tell...This was not a slight on yours...but if you have a story...imagine how much easier it would have been at the VA had you not had to compete with Joe shit bag who got PTSD from a story he heard from a friend who was at another fire base when an IED went off and he heard about it over the radio (True story). This was an actual group therapy discussion at an in patient care facility that my best friend who got TBI from an IED that killed his TC and Gunner, told me upon his return.

So, you can say screw me all you want....your choice...be a victim...or be a survivor....I'm moving on and not playing the blame game or the woe be me game.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Back in the day they had some qualifications you had to meet before you could join. Do you meet either set of qualifications?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> Back in the day they had some qualifications you had to meet before you could join. Do you meet either set of qualifications?


Should there be any other qualification than having served? Is it time to open up the VFW & Am Legion to all Veterans? Where are all those Veterans that don't meet either set of qualifications supposed to find some brotherhood?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Should there be any other qualification than having served? Is it time to open up the VFW & Am Legion to all Veterans? Where are all those Veterans that don't meet either set of qualifications supposed to find some brotherhood?


AMVETS. Anyone who served and has an honorable discharge can join. War or peace. Active or reserve.

Every organization, veteran or civilian, has the right to set their own conditions or standards. You mention VFW and the Legion. Where would you draw the line? Should the Congressional Medal Of Honor Society be open to every vet? How about Disabled American Veterans, or the Military Order Of The Purple Heart?
Opening VFW to any vet off the streets cheapens the sacrifice of those who meet the current criteria.
There is a movement afoot to open the Legion to any veteran. Heck, the qualifications are loose, now.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> AMVETS. Anyone who served and has an honorable discharge can join. War or peace. Active or reserve.
> 
> Every organization, veteran or civilian, has the right to set their own conditions or standards. You mention VFW and the Legion. Where would you draw the line? Should the Congressional Medal Of Honor Society be open to every vet? How about Disabled American Veterans, or the Military Order Of The Purple Heart?
> Opening VFW to any vet off the streets cheapens the sacrifice of those who meet the current criteria.
> There is a movement afoot to open the Legion to any veteran. Heck, the qualifications are loose, now.


Could you enlighten me about the AMVETS Posts RPD. I regularly donate items etc to the organization, do the have meeting houses where they sell alcohol and host dinners?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

New guy 101 said:


> I must have completely failed at communicating my thoughts ...
> 
> My words were to convey I KNOW there are more direct support folks and they are equally important...my words were that in 40 plus years I have never met one who says that's what he was. I respect all who serve and they should respect themselves enough to say how they served, instead of everybody being a SPECOPS guy.
> 
> ...


I understood what you meant, 100%.
A number of years ago the VA loosened the criteria to apply for a service connected disability for PTSD. This was done because do-gooders who have never heard a shot fired in anger felt "we aren't doing enough for our veterans."
On a number of veteran message boards I belong to, all of a sudden there was "Yeah! I got 30%! It was easy! Y'all need to go get some free money, too!!" And, mind you, these were Vietnam veterans how have been doing just fine for 40 or 50 years now.:vs_no_no_no:
Yes, a percentage of troops suffer from debilitating PTSD, and America should do what it can to help them. But the majority will be OK.

Veterans have been suffering what is now called PTSD since the beginning of organized warfare. OOOPS!! My mistake - it is now called PTS, because the "D" stood for Disorder and we don't want to stigmatize those poor veterans.
After the Civil War it was called Nostalgia, or Soldiers Heart. WW1 it was Shell Shock. WW2 and Korea it was Combat Fatigue. Vietnam it was Post Vietnam Syndrome. Heck, the ancient Greeks wrote about it.
Let the record show, that after the VA started the Vet Center Program in the early 80's I became one of their "clients". Yeah, I'm an alumnus of the VA Mental Hygiene Department. But I refused their drugs, and I refused to file a claim. And you know what? Abstaining from any and all mind altering substances, including alcohol, the simple passage of time, and the Grace of God has relieved me of the bondage of the past.:vs_clouds:

My major gripe is the small subset of Nam vets who I consider "professional victims." Boo-Hoo, they spit on me. Whine, whine, the American people mistreated us. I hate Jane Fonda, the traitor bitch. Poor me, poor me, pour me another drink.
That was 50 flippin' years in the past. Let It GO!!!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Could you enlighten me about the AMVETS Posts RPD. I regularly donate items etc to the organization, do the have meeting houses where they sell alcohol and host dinners?


Home - AMVETS


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Jane Fonda? 3-3, 1-5, 5-1, 1-5, 4-2. 
50 years isn't enough.


Thanks RPD, already perused the site.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

M118LR said:


> Should there be any other qualification than having served? Is it time to open up the VFW & Am Legion to all Veterans? Where are all those Veterans that don't meet either set of qualifications supposed to find some brotherhood?


Well Yeah! Served honorably. A General or BC Discharge should be disqualifiers. And the VFW's whole charter is having served honorably during a foreign war. Didn't receive an Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or the like sorry slick.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Perhaps it's time to post the requirements:

VFW: https://www.reference.com/government-politics/requirements-join-vfw-69bc541c3330d41d

American Legion: https://www.members.legion.org/CGI-...rtn=NETINTRO+ml=LANSA:XHTML+part=TAL+lang=ENG

But other than reduced bar tabs, what are you getting for the dues required?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

When the American Legion was first formed, in France in 1919, it was for veterans of the just concluded World War.
Gradually, over the years, the qualifications have been loosened to allow anyone with an honorable discharge who served anywhere during a recognized period of war to join.
And I have no problem with that. When you are in the military, you go where they send you. Maybe you get sent to Alaska rather than Iraq. But, the danger you could be sent into a war zone was always there. Not so during peace time, there was no possibility of danger.

I volunteered for the Army, and volunteered for Vietnam, but the guys who get my respect are the draftees who served alongside me in Nam. They didn't dodge, run away, evade. They showed up and went where they were sent. I asked for it. They didn't, and went any way.
They have my respect.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Perhaps it's time to post the requirements:
> 
> VFW: https://www.reference.com/government-politics/requirements-join-vfw-69bc541c3330d41d
> 
> ...


If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the answer anyway.
But since you asked, go straight to the source and see for yourself.
www.vfw.org
www.legion.org


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the answer anyway.
> But since you asked, go straight to the source and see for yourself.
> VFW - Veterans of Foreign Wars USA
> The American Legion


Outstanding sales pitch RPD. I'll rush right on over.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Any reason you can't join both?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

If you actually read the pages, you would see nowhere on there any mention of "reduced bar tabs".

If that is your only motivation, save yourself the $40/year and sit in your living room with a bottle of cheap bourbon.

You don't even qualify for membership, do you?


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

M118LR said:


> Outstanding sales pitch RPD. I'll rush right on over.


I have to agree with him, if you don't see a reason to be near other vets, either you aren't one, or you never served a combat tour.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

M118LR said:


> Outstanding sales pitch RPD. I'll rush right on over.


You ever think they might not want a blowhard like you in their groups?

And shoot since you haven't joined either, just why should they listen to you or any other non member on how they should change their membership rules.

You start to sound like the BLM folks all whinney and such


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> If you actually read the pages, you would see nowhere on there any mention of "reduced bar tabs".
> 
> If that is your only motivation, save yourself the $40/year and sit in your living room with a bottle of cheap bourbon.
> 
> You don't even qualify for membership, do you?


Could I sit at the keyboard with a good bottle of Bourbon and reach out over the internet to swap yarns with many more Veterans? Guess I'd still save the 40 bucks, but I've turned down numerous offers of others to pick up the tab if I became a member.

As to your last, it isn't worthy of an answer RPD. Navy Lifer, you figure it out.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Jakthesoldier said:


> I have to agree with him, if you don't see a reason to be near other vets, either you aren't one, or you never served a combat tour.


0 for 2 Jakthesoldier. I've got 4 full military bases surrounding me. If I need to spend time with other Vets in a bar, I'll head to one of the base clubs. At least their yarns are fresh!


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The VFW in the little hick town where we lived for 12 years was a wonderful place. Big fancy dance hall. Cheapest and coldest soda pops in town..Bingo for the old widder ladys on Thurs night. Friday nights dancing to the juke box..shooting pool..shuffleboard..slinging a few rocks. Sat afternoon was time to get some cheap Moon lesson at only losing 50 cents a game and 50 cents a hickey. Big Dance on Sat night with live country band. Always throwing big fish fries and bbqs. They gave my Daddy (WW II Vet) a nice marker worth 400 bucks. We chose those that instead of the official military burial with 21 gun salute. A person can trade the marker in for that if they wanted. In questionable cop shootings they have been known to circulate petitions..in support of the good guy. I was a guest member which I could do anything they did except wear the funny hats and go to the meetings. Now they made everybody quit drinking when the meetings started..but they thankfully didnt have many and they were short. I did get to be full member over in the bigger adjoining town..but quartermaster was a little eager to sign up new prospects. He looked at my guest card and upgraded me. No 22 D14s needed. I could go get that back for 12 bucks. Its expired.

PS Edit. Before I got there they used to have Casino Night with full gambling paraphenalia. Some dummy come in and lost his whole paycheck so his wife dropped a dime to the likker board boys and that went kaput. They would not allow us to have a deck of cards in the place. Thats why everybody played dominoes..I guess..lol.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

It seems like M118 knows little if anything about what the VFW does. Seems to think it's only about the booze. VFW - Veterans of Foreign Wars USA


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

My Daddy was a member of the American Legion..up until they let wimmen join..then he gave it up. They have a real nice Ameican Legion here. Have their own Motorcycle club etc. Real friendly bunch. Just a little too far from home to hang out over there regular.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

One evening, I went to the "community club." There was no longer a separate club for NCOs; there was just an officer's club and the community club. In the C-Club was a separate room for the senior NCOs. Not being the sort to like chaos, I wandered into the Senior NCO area and ordered a beer at the bar. A minute later, a sergeant major slammed a commander's coin on the bar next to me. This E-5 had been made. I put down my beer, reached into my jeans pocket retrieved my coin and slammed it down next to his. Two first sergeants that I recognized (and who had also recognized me as being a junior NCO) flanked us right about then.

"What's an E-5 doing in me lounge?" growled the sergeant major.

"Looking for a civil place to drink a beer, sergeant major."

The sergeant major took a second to listen to the ruckus coming from the other side of the wall, looked down at the two coins and said with a slight smile, "Next beer's on me."


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Way cool, military or not, don't take crap from anyone.


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## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

@M118LR you opened this thread with a question. You have received multiple responses, along with resource links that discuss the benefits and services for members of these organizations.

If you have no desire to be part of these organizations, then it is pretty simple. Don't join.

Debating this further serves no benefit to the community. It has simply baited members regarding a decision you had already clearly reached and touched some deep nerves. Quite frankly, it comes across as trolling, which is not welcome in this community.

It isn't often that I feel the need to close a thread, but this is one of those times.

This thread is now closed.


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