# CME, EMP, magic wand - all electrical power is gone! You ready?



## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Swrock's recent walking home from work after emp thread gave me the idea for this one... but from a different starting point.

Here are the set of assumptions for this fun little thread:

It's Jan 11, 2020, you and your family are home safe, the sun is about to rise, and you wake to discover there has been a

1. Massive coronal event, EMP, whatever - with the result being permanent global electrical shutdown. 
2. No asteroids, earthquakes, volcanic events, etc; weather continues normally.
3. Vehicles wont start, all electronics are fried, phones no longer work, no Google/YouTube to tell you what to do or how to fix things, all you have is what you already have or can make or steal.

What you do first, depends on your overall plan. Will you stay in your urban/neighborhood dwelling? Head to a bug-out location? Are you already living in a remote area all prepped-up?

Ready? Set... BANG!
Except there wont be a bang.
Everything that depends on electricity just stops.

*******************

Wherever you are, are you prepped for this possibility?

All thoughts welcome.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Sorry. I can't comment 'cuz the innernets doesn't work. :vs_smirk:


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Sorry. I can't comment 'cuz the innernets doesn't work. :vs_smirk:


:vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:

Aw...c'mon; you're the font of information we all rely on!!

How about this. I'll tell you about our set-up, and you can pick out the weak spots. Ok?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> :vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:
> 
> Aw...c'mon; you're the font of information we all rely on!!
> 
> How about this. I'll tell you about our set-up, and you can pick out the weak spots. Ok?


My set-up? Solar panels on the roof, batteries inside, along with charge controller and inverter.

Spare panel diodes on hand. Spare charge controller on hand. Spare inverter on hand.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

No, we're NOT ready and it's really weighing been weighing on me this week because of what's going on in Iran.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> My set-up? Solar panels on the roof, batteries inside, along with charge controller and inverter.
> 
> Spare panel diodes on hand. Spare charge controller on hand. Spare inverter on hand.


So..it sounds like you're staying put, then. Right?
Does your drinkable water supply depend on your solar system functioning? 
I'm not prying, just kinda looking at the big picture here. 
We can all live without the innernets; other things, like water, not so much.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Fast and pray for the best. Light a candle, have my my shotgun handy. Bug in for three months or so and try to keep my head straight. 

Then assuming by the grace of God I survive, then after the dust settles I'll look to barter for a horse and saddle sometime soon thereafter. I'll name the horse Friday. We're gonna be going way back in time, (Friday and I--tech-wise). 

And if I do leave all you guys here at this forum, know I'll be thinking of you. And like the song says, when things go wrong with you, it hurts me too.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Without electricity the whole country stops. Everything.

In case there are new people since the last time I mentioned it, we live on a dead end dirt road six miles outside a one stop light town. 
We grow food, keep chickens for eggs.

We could make it without society for a few months, but after that there would be really hard times.
I once lived for a year without electricity, indoor plumbing, or running water and I really have grown accustomed to those things.

3/4 of the American population would be dead in less than 6 months. Maybe less.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

paulag1955 said:


> No, we're NOT ready and it's really weighing been weighing on me this week because of what's going on in Iran.


I hear ya, and that's kind of why I started this thread. I _think_ we're ready - but sometimes we cant see our own weak points. So I thought if I learned of others' preps - I might spot something we're missing.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

While we build M.T. Acres, we lived without modern conveniences for about 12 months. It was a hell of a lot of work and was not fun (building the place was a blast; cooking food, washing clothes, taking a dump, etc., not so much), but we made it.

Could we survive that way for multiple years? Kismet.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> .......Does your drinkable water supply depend on your solar system functioning?........


Nope. Solar set-up is just for the fridge, freezer and furnace.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Without electricity the whole country stops. Everything.
> 
> In case there are new people since the last time I mentioned it, we live on a dead end dirt road six miles outside a one stop light town.
> We grow food, keep chickens for eggs.
> ...


Agree about the country stopping, and the quick die-off.
Quickly - there will be no gas for the gen to charge solar batts or run the water pump directly. Even with your own well, if there's no hand pump, yer SOL. Ya know?
Even IF no 'stranger-danger' ever showed up - life would still be pretty tough.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Inor said:


> While we build M.T. Acres, we lived without modern conveniences for about 12 months. It was a hell of a lot of work and was not fun (building the place was a blast; cooking food, washing clothes, taking a dump, etc., not so much), but we made it.
> 
> Could we survive that way for multiple years? Kismet.


That way? I think you could; you're pretty resilient. But I bet you still had power for tools, gas to run to town for food/supplies, etc.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Nope. Solar set-up is just for the fridge, freezer and furnace.


Furnace...like a 'forced-air gas' one? 
Those work great - as long as they're fueled. Not sure how long fuel (or water, for that matter) would be delivered/piped to you as this is a wide-spread event.
Ah... I'm betting you have a wood stove backup for heat.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Just the immense number of dead bodies laying around unburied would be a major health catastrophe.
There would not be time or manpower to bury them.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Just the immense number of dead bodies laying around unburied would be a major health catastrophe.
> There would not be time or manpower to bury them.


That would be a catastrophe, for sure. Luckily, like you, we're far from a sizeable population, and any 'remains' up here would be quickly consumed by the carnivores (coyotes, cougars, crows, hawks, etc)


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

we have a year round spring - backup solar panel, DC pump & battery - if they get fried, then buckets.
When the propane tank is empty - that's it for the stove/oven. 
Garden which will need water.
lots of solar chargers/lights, but, it will be a challenge...

I'm praying it doesn't happen as much as I feel this world needs a reboot...the main issue is that the "elite", government top-brass, and other worthless people will be held up in emp proof bunkers and pop back out when the dust clears and start the same garbage all over again 

it's them that need exterminating, not all the good people left...
Peace,
Michael J.


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## Swrock (Dec 14, 2018)

Have about a three to six month supply of food for me and the wife. Keep 14 cases of water stored, 40 bottles to a case. Lots of cooking supplies, charcoal etc. Feed deer, rabbits, squirrels and doves in the 600 acres next to my house. 
Next door neighbor preps and is an awesome gardener, we will trade meats and vegetables. Can collect water off my camper awning.

Have plenty of hand guns, long guns and ammo. Also pellet gun and crossbow for quiet hunting. 

In South Alabama it dont get that cold but I do have a fire place. 

My main concerns are, my grown kids dont prep much, I would have to help them and grandkids if they showed up hungry.
While I feed the wild game here I'm afraid everybody else near me will come after them once they get hungry.

Need to learn how to trap the small game I guess. I do keep a fair amount of corn on hand to keep the deer, doves and small game coming into my back yard.

If long term, dont know what to do about prescription meds. BP meds.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Annie said:


> Fast and pray for the best. Light a candle, have my my shotgun handy. Bug in for three months or so and try to keep my head straight.
> 
> Then assuming by the grace of God I survive, then after the dust settles I'll look to barter for a horse and saddle sometime soon thereafter. I'll name the horse Friday. We're gonna be going way back in time, (Friday and I--tech-wise).
> 
> And if I do leave all you guys here at this forum, know I'll be thinking of you. And like the song says, when things go wrong with you, it hurts me too.


Will you always have access to water, Annie? Don't know why I'm so hung up on water... maybe because for years we had to haul it up from the lake in barrels before the well was put in... and that was when gas was available for the truck.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Swrock said:


> Have about a three to six month supply of food for me and the wife. Keep 14 cases of water stored, 40 bottles to a case. Lots of cooking supplies, charcoal etc. Feed deer, rabbits, squirrels and doves in the 600 acres next to my house.
> Next door neighbor preps and is an awesome gardener, we will trade meats and vegetables. Can collect water off my camper awning.
> 
> Have plenty of hand guns, long guns and ammo. Also pellet gun and crossbow for quiet hunting.
> ...


Hi Swrock. It sounds like you have a good handle on things and your life sounds peaceful. 

Regarding BP meds - there might be some herbs/plants that can help with that? We have wild mint here that I've harvested, dried for tea - that's helpful for occasional heartburn or indigestion...and, I see now that this is one of our weak spots for overall planning - neither of us are on prescription meds, so I don't think about what we might need down the road. Few years back I bought a book on medicinal herbs to 'read later'; looks like one of my winter projects is to finally read it, and maybe get a small bed of something started in the spring. Thanks!


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

We have wood heat, five gallons of kerosene for light, enough food and water, first aid to last quite awhile if we stayed in place. The gun safe would be opened, locked and loaded......it would depend on unpredictable circumstances that would dictate whether we would bug out, we are also prepared for that......don’t want to be anymore detailed then that, already said to much......


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Would just make a fire if it wasn't already going. Grew up in the dark ages in old farm house before indoor plumbing so that's not a big deal. Plenty of snow on the ground until the fresh water spring out the back door thaws out. Could just pull the electric well pump and install the hand pump. Eat breakfast and go huntin. Drive around and pick up more supplies. Yes I have old trucks with no computers/electronics, don't we all??

Biggest problem will be fighting off the neighbors.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> .........Ah... I'm betting you have a wood stove backup for heat.


Not yet.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Good thread. Just read an article about cyber attacks on critical infrastructure (ie. power plants) increasing of late with 3 main players identified. I have a little experience in this area and I’m surprised it hasn’t happed already. 

Anyway to topic... 3-6 months of bugging in. Plenty of stored food and will jump start the garden and barter for some meats. Horses, chickens, etc on the property. 1,000 acre farm in back of me with plenty of hogs. One good hog will last quite awhile. Water is not an issue. Creek/canal on back pasture and a pool to capture water. Berkey to help drinking along with other sanitizing methods. Feed for animals might be an issue (ie. dog and cat food). Lights and some power is covered via limited solar. Even with an EMP type event some engines will run like my tractor and old truck and gas golf cart. Defense is not an issue. 

Since I’m in the south, heating is not an issue and I should be able to jump start a large garden fairly quickly.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I have old point/coil fired equipment that might still be good. ~100 gallons of gas

Hand powered tools.

Enough wood for two more winters.

Food until spring, seeds, huge garden, orchard, fishing poles/ice fishing, guns and ammo/reloading. 

Oil lamps, kerosene, candles/wax.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I am as prepared as I can be I suppose. I haven't jumped into the solar back up thing yet but I have backup generation and store plenty of propane so if I am conservative I will have power generation for a year or so. Plenty of food and water reserves, Again, about 2 years worth. I have a fireplace for heat and cooking if needed. Plenty of firepower and ammo. I feel pretty comfortable that if left to my own devices, i could easily go two years on what I have on hand. Wouldn't be easy and it wouldn't be fun. 

That said, I won't be left to my own devices. I live in the city so there will be mass chaos and after the die off, there will be decease. I may not live through the onslaught but I am as prepared as I can be for it. All we do with our prepping is better our odds for survival, that's it. No guarantees. 

FYI, number one on my list is grid down. Iran doesn't want a war with us, they won't start a nuclear exchange unless backed into a corner. I am betting as well the pork chop won't either. No, they will attack the grid. It's to easy and it's low risk. Iran, their proxies, the fat kid in NK, or our friendly neighborhood terrorist will get around to it eventually. Don't think it isn't on their list.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Your solar , new equipment, cars/trucks, generators pre 1970 are going to be fried. Unless they have a Faraday cage


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Prepared One said:


> I live in the city...All we do with our prepping is better our odds for survival, that's it. No guarantees.


Well, I live about eight miles outside the city, I'm not sure that's far enough. I'm good on the "survival toys," but I'll admit, due to storage issues I do not have two years of supplies. The lower level of our home has been remodeled, and I doubt my wife will allow a "bunker" to be situated on new carpeting.

I read something from Mel Tappan a few years back that he said you should find a nice community far in advance of social decline so you become "one of them" during the bloodletting. I've been in this nice community for +15 years, and I even lend my neighbors tools. I think my lower level cement shelter is like 6x8, so it might be cozy during a missile attack.

Of course, "Li'L Nell" will be coming with me, and she's a cute little girl with a loud voice.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> Your solar , new equipment, cars/trucks, generators pre 1970 are going to be fried. Unless they have a Faraday cage


Biggest myth in prepping: An EMP *WILL* fry *ALL* electronics. There's way too many variables. Some things can and will survive. My cell phone might get fried, but yours won't. It's all really a crap shoot.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Not yet.


:vs_shocked:
Oh well. If things go sideways - you can always go camping. :vs_closedeyes:


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Biggest myth in prepping: An EMP *WILL* fry *ALL* electronics. There's way too many variables. Some things can and will survive. My cell phone might get fried, but yours won't. It's all really a crap shoot.


Lots better chance a points fired car/truck will survive. Just a spare condenser alternator and coil would get it going, it you had them protected. Same with an old 1-wire GM distributor.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Biggest myth in prepping: An EMP *WILL* fry *ALL* electronics. There's way too many variables. Some things can and will survive. My cell phone might get fried, but yours won't. It's all really a crap shoot.


I look for an attack on the grid itself by hacking or bringing down key installations, perhaps in conjunction with some form of EMP device. The Internet may still be somewhat functional, we may still have limited communications, but no power. If I am little ol' me sitting in Iran or NK and want to be a giant killer, I am attacking the grid.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Piratesailor said:


> Good thread. Just read an article about cyber attacks on critical infrastructure (ie. power plants) increasing of late with 3 main players identified. I have a little experience in this area and I'm surprised it hasn't happed already.


I am too. My take is that, generally speaking, the grids/systems are either very old needing repair, or modernized and now dependent on computers to keep going.



> Anyway to topic... 3-6 months of bugging in. Plenty of stored food and will jump start the garden and barter for some meats. Horses, chickens, etc on the property. 1,000 acre farm in back of me with plenty of hogs. One good hog will last quite awhile. Water is not an issue. Creek/canal on back pasture and a pool to capture water. Berkey to help drinking along with other sanitizing methods. Feed for animals might be an issue (ie. dog and cat food). Lights and some power is covered via limited solar. Even with an EMP type event some engines will run like my tractor and old truck and gas golf cart. Defense is not an issue.
> 
> Since I'm in the south, heating is not an issue and I should be able to jump start a large garden fairly quickly.


That all sounds good. Does your Berkey need power to sanitize? Supply of filters would be handy. We drink our water straight from the well. 
We usually keep a few lidded big garbage cans full of dog food stocked up, but they, like the cats, can and do feed themselves around here.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Biggest myth in prepping: An EMP *WILL* fry *ALL* electronics. There's way too many variables. Some things can and will survive. My cell phone might get fried, but yours won't. It's all really a crap shoot.


Lots better chance a points fired car/truck will survive. Just a spare condenser alternator and coil would get it going, it you had them protected. Same with an old 1-wire GM distributor.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Dig out my protected ham radio, and see what is help else where.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Here's our setup. 
Except for the medicinal herbs - we're already doing these things, alongside our lazy-ass comfortable off-grid solar living LOL

Hand pump on the well, wood for heat&cooking that can be harvested/processed by hand, hand tools, good supply of game and the skills to preserve it. We bow-hunt; arrows can be recovered, reused. Wild vegetation for calories/nutrition/medicines (as soon as I learn more about medicinal herbs), cannibis and wild kinnikinnick for smoking. Self-feeding cats and guard dogs. Not everything is listed here, including security set-ups...but none of it requires electricity, gas or propane. Our near-neighbors shouldn't be a problem as they're set-up like we are, and the hot-hungry-hordes are 50 miles away, and they'll be on foot.

We have a couple months of food stored, cant live up here in the winter without it, but not massive quantities. 
The exception to that is Salt. Iodized and non. More than we'll ever need. 
We planted some fruit trees & berry bushes a few years ago, still waiting for fruit.

Other than the panels & wiring - solar components can fail, even without a CME/EMP/magic wand. 
We already had the new inverter fail on us. It was under warranty, they replaced it.

It might be foolish to rely on our skills rather than "stuff", but there ya go.​*[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]*


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

rstanek said:


> ...don't want to be anymore detailed then that, already said to much......


I like it when you say too much, lol. It's comforting for some reason.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Well, I live about eight miles outside the city, I'm not sure that's far enough. I'm good on the "survival toys," but I'll admit, due to storage issues I do not have two years of supplies. The lower level of our home has been remodeled, and I doubt my wife will allow a "bunker" to be situated on new carpeting.
> 
> I read something from Mel Tappan a few years back that he said you should find a nice community far in advance of social decline so you become "one of them" during the bloodletting. I've been in this nice community for +15 years, and I even lend my neighbors tools. I think my lower level cement shelter is like 6x8, so it might be cozy during a missile attack.
> 
> Of course, "Li'L Nell" will be coming with me, and she's a cute little girl with a loud voice.


I am on the outskirts of Houston. 10 minutes west or northwest and I am in the country, but they are surrounding me fast. My plan, at least initially, is to get skinny, get small, and let the hoards kill each other off. That's the plan anyways. lain:


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Prepared One said:


> I am as prepared as I can be I suppose. I haven't jumped into the solar back up thing yet but I have backup generation and store plenty of propane so if I am conservative I will have power generation for a year or so. Plenty of food and water reserves, Again, about 2 years worth. I have a fireplace for heat and cooking if needed. Plenty of firepower and ammo. I feel pretty comfortable that if left to my own devices, i could easily go two years on what I have on hand. Wouldn't be easy and it wouldn't be fun.
> 
> That said, I won't be left to my own devices. I live in the city so there will be mass chaos and after the die off, there will be decease. I may not live through the onslaught but I am as prepared as I can be for it. All we do with our prepping is better our odds for survival, that's it. No guarantees.
> 
> FYI, number one on my list is grid down. Iran doesn't want a war with us, they won't start a nuclear exchange unless backed into a corner. I am betting as well the pork chop won't either. No, they will attack the grid. It's to easy and it's low risk. Iran, their proxies, the fat kid in NK, or our friendly neighborhood terrorist will get around to it eventually. Don't think it isn't on their list.


Nice preps and your thinking pretty much parallels mine re upcoming events. 
If you dont mind me asking... are your supplies, is your readiness, a well kept secret? T'wer me there - yours would be first place I'd hit..


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Prepared One said:


> let the hoards kill each other off. That's the plan anyways.


That's my overall plan, as well. One hole in the idea is that I do not have a 9x19mm pistol. I was taught (and never listened) to guys who know better that having firearms in the same caliber as your police force and army means that the ammunition will be plentiful.

I had an SW 639 once, it never had a stoppage and it ate any brand of random crap. I should have kept it, but every time I went to the Deerfield Range and shot it I got bored. And, of course, I read every back-page article by the Colonel and probably never took that advice, either.

Besides, it sounds goofy when your warning to a thug is, "_Would you like an incredible slice or a crummy shot_?"


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

The Tourist said:


> Well, I live about eight miles outside the city, I'm not sure that's far enough. I'm good on the "survival toys," but I'll admit, due to storage issues I do not have two years of supplies. The lower level of our home has been remodeled, and I doubt my wife will allow a "bunker" to be situated on new carpeting.
> 
> I read something from Mel Tappan a few years back that he said you should find a nice community far in advance of social decline so you become "one of them" during the bloodletting. I've been in this nice community for +15 years, and I even lend my neighbors tools. I think my lower level cement shelter is like 6x8, so it might be cozy during a missile attack.
> 
> Of course, "Li'L Nell" will be coming with me, and she's a cute little girl with a loud voice.


Hopefully your nice community wont turn out to be like the Donner party. :tango_face_grin:


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> Oh well. If things go sideways - you can always go camping.


Ewww, I hate camping! As a kid I had bad asthma so my loving parents took me to every cheap-ass, bug infested, pollen-spewing camp ground they could find. Fortunately I married a suburban girl who demanded hotels when we went to Sturgis.

I'm not the only one who feels this way. I've talked to lots of homeless folks with blank stares, and they say camping is still terrible.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> Hopefully your nice community wont turn out to be like the Donner party.


Oh, don't I wish! Have you priced good cuts of meat lately? Yikes, I want to eat the stuff not make a gilded tiara out of it!

I did have a great deal with a fellow biker who was a deer hunter. I quit deer hunting years ago because an orange jacket looks like a deer to guys from Illinois. I'd polish his knives and he'd give me choice cuts of neck and back steaks--I like the flavor and texture of those cuts.

Then the guy says he's too old to hunt. And of course, I have deer running through my yard...


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> Nice preps and your thinking pretty much parallels mine re upcoming events.
> If you dont mind me asking... are your supplies, is your readiness, a well kept secret? T'wer me there - yours would be first place I'd hit..


My Preps are a well guarded secret. My brother knows and is welcome if it goes south, but he lives in Cali. He's a goner. My Dad knows, my wife of course, although, she does not know the full extent. If they were paying attention my neighbors may suspect something, maybe. They may have heard me testing the generators. or seen rifles go in and out of the truck, or possibly a GHB, but that's not all that unusual in Texas, particularly the gulf coast. Anything more then that, I make sure it is hidden form sight.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Prepared One said:


> My Preps are a well guarded secret. My brother knows and is welcome if it goes south, but he lives in Cali. He's a goner. My Dad knows, my wife of course, although, she does not know the full extent. If they were paying attention my neighbors may suspect something, maybe. They may have heard me testing the generators. or seen rifles go in and out of the truck, or possibly a GHB, but that's not all that unusual in Texas, particularly the gulf coast. Anything more then that, I make sure it is hidden form sight.


Good to hear.
Too bad they don't make silent generators. 
On a similar note... you know those cheapo pathway solar lights you just stick in the ground? We have them all around up here, looks like enchanted fairy-land at night  but if things go sideways... not sure I'd want even them 'lighting the way'. The people who'd be welcome here, can already find their way up in the dark.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

MountainGirl said:


> Good to hear.
> Too bad they don't make silent generators.
> On a similar note... you know those cheapo pathway solar lights you just stick in the ground? We have them all around up here, looks like enchanted fairy-land at night  but if things go sideways... not sure I'd want even them 'lighting the way'. The people who'd be welcome here, can already find their way up in the dark.


Let them charge during the day then bring them inside for the night.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

SOCOM42 said:


> Let them charge during the day then bring them inside for the night.


Oh now _that's_ a good idea! Thanks!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Let them charge during the day then bring them inside for the night.


South facing window


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

No good for me, trees all the way around, no direct sunlight.

Will work if I put them on the outer edges of the parking lot.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> ......Too bad they don't make silent generators. .........


The teeny little mufflers they put on most gennys isn't much help. You can, however, cobble a method up to utilize a vehicle-type muffler.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> The teeny little mufflers they put on most gennys isn't much help. You can, however, cobble a method up to utilize a vehicle-type muffler.


Done that on a 1972 Ford lgt tractor, Ford wanted $75, I put a resonator for a car on it, for $20. That was 30 years ago.........


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> That would be a catastrophe, for sure. Luckily, like you, we're far from a sizeable population, and any 'remains' up here would be quickly consumed by the carnivores (coyotes, cougars, crows, hawks, etc)


Even in the cities, some of the bodies would be cleaned up by rats, raccoons, possums, etc., but their populations would skyrocket so another source of disease. Not sure about other cities, but in the Seattle area, there would be coyotes helping out, and cougar and bear would move back in in the absence of so many living, breathing humans. Possibly even wolves farther north.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> The teeny little mufflers they put on most gennys isn't much help. You can, however, cobble a method up to utilize a vehicle-type muffler.


My guess is _any_ engine-running noise would be the proverbial sore thumb in an otherwise silent environment.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

paulag1955 said:


> Even in the cities, some of the bodies would be cleaned up by rats, raccoons, possums, etc., but their populations would skyrocket so another source of disease. Not sure about other cities, but in the Seattle area, there would be coyotes helping out, and cougar and bear would move back in in the absence of so many living, breathing humans. Possibly even wolves farther north.


Humans are still vastly outnumbered up here, which is a gift as far as I'm concerned.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Will you always have access to water, Annie? Don't know why I'm so hung up on water... maybe because for years we had to haul it up from the lake in barrels before the well was put in... and that was when gas was available for the truck.


We are in the same boat in eastern Washington. We're right next to Lake Roosevelt, but hauling water from the lake for daily use would be beyond brutal. Even if we get a well dug, I don't know what we'd do if the well pump went out, and I'm not sure if a solar pump could handle to load of the deep well, plus a push the water up to the house.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Humans are still vastly outnumbered up here, which is a gift as far as I'm concerned.


Oh, it's a blessing, alright. Even though our western Washington place could probably be called "exurbs" rather than suburbs (lots of one to five acre properties), it's building up fast and the number of people surrounding us is pretty scary.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

paulag1955 said:


> We are in the same boat in eastern Washington. We're right next to Lake Roosevelt, but hauling water from the lake for daily use would be beyond brutal. Even if we get a well dug, I don't know what we'd do if the well pump went out, and I'm not sure if a solar pump could handle to load of the deep well, plus a push the water up to the house.


It wont. I looked at the Grundfos, and the depth of ours (200') called for 3/4hp, wired 220, just to get it to the surface. It's lateral to the cabin so nominal push there. Installed in 2016, and after looking at it for a couple years, knowing we needed electricity to get the water, I had a hand-pump installed on a separate pipe run down the same casing. Static is at 45' so it doesn't take much pumping to get it started. Best back-up money we've spent, imo.

Edit to add: The well pump is the biggest draw on the batteries. ​


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> It wont. I looked at the Grundfos, and the depth of ours (200') called for 3/4hp, wired 220, just to get it to the surface. It's lateral to the cabin so nominal push there. Installed in 2016, and after looking at it for a couple years, knowing we needed electricity to get the water, I had a hand-pump installed on a separate pipe run down the same casing. Static is at 45' so it doesn't take much pumping to get it started. Best back-up money we've spent, imo.
> 
> Edit to add: The well pump is the biggest draw on the batteries. ​


And our well will undoubtedly be deeper than that. I think our neighbor's well is over 200' and they are closer to the lake than we are. But you said depending on what our static water depth is, a hand pump might be feasible?

Our plan for western Washington is to sink a well by hand and add a hand pump if the power goes out. The water table is pretty high here. We'd have to filter everything through a Berkey or equivalent, though.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

paulag1955 said:


> And our well will undoubtedly be deeper than that. I think our neighbor's well is over 200' and they are closer to the lake than we are. But you said depending on what our static water depth is, a hand pump might be feasible?


Yes - Even though the hand-pipe's head is at 180' (main-pump head at 190'), because the static level up at 45', the water inside the hand-system's pipe also rises to 45', so it only needs to be drawn up from there. We only fill up 3 or 4 5gal buckets at a time, and I didn't notice any difference in the 'pull' requirement - but I'm guessing if we drew down far enough - it would get a lot more difficult. Ever ask your neighbor what his static level is? I think that information is public records, recorded by the driller with whatever agency the permit was drawn through.



> Our plan for western Washington is to sink a well by hand and add a hand pump if the power goes out. The water table is pretty high here. We'd have to filter everything through a Berkey or equivalent, though.


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## Swrock (Dec 14, 2018)

We get alot of rain where I live, so I thought about catching the rain for a water source. I placed a large wheel barrow in the open one day during a good rain event and was disappointed in the amount of rain it caught.
So I put the camper awning out and angled one side down to make the run off east to catch in the wheel barrow. I was surprised to see how quickly it filled the wheel barrow.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Swrock said:


> We get alot of rain where I live, so I thought about catching the rain for a water source. I placed a large wheel barrow in the open one day during a good rain event and was disappointed in the amount of rain it caught.
> ..........


Put a coffee cup out in an inch of rain, it will have 1" of water in it.

Put a Rubbermaid tote out in the same inch of rain, it will have 1" of water in it.

Build an Olympic-sized swimming pool out in the inch of rainfall, it will have 1" of water in it.

Whether it's the size of a postage stamp, or a million acres, one inch of rain will produce, at any spot, 1" of water.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Prepared One said:


> My Preps are a well guarded secret.


Well, I am an advocate of being up front, but then, while I am a Christian, I think most libtards don't want to bother a biker having coffee.

When it comes to "secret," I never try to hide anything. In fact, I usually reply to a new item that either works or it doesn't. For example, I think these new yellow or blue handled Buck folders are a tool kit you can carry in your pocket. So what if half the liberals in Madison know it's a jackknife, it's legal and they can squawk all they want.

If I've ever made a mistake in my lifetime it's hiding something that I figured was taboo at the time. If I buy a knife or three and my wife asks, I tell her. If the cops are patrolling my street (or ergo, me personally) I recommend you take them donuts and ask if they need fingerprints.

And then there's just karma. One time a cop asked me for my opinion...


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Swrock said:


> We get alot of rain where I live, so I thought about catching the rain for a water source. I placed a large wheel barrow in the open one day during a good rain event and was disappointed in the amount of rain it caught.
> So I put the camper awning out and angled one side down to make the run off east to catch in the wheel barrow. I was surprised to see how quickly it filled the wheel barrow.


Catching the rain off roofs is always a good idea, imo. Great for watering plantings and pets - and no filtering required.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Yes - Even though the hand-pipe's head is at 180' (main-pump head at 190'), because the static level up at 45', the water inside the hand-system's pipe also rises to 45', so it only needs to be drawn up from there. We only fill up 3 or 4 5gal buckets at a time, and I didn't notice any difference in the 'pull' requirement - but I'm guessing if we drew down far enough - it would get a lot more difficult. Ever ask your neighbor what his static level is? I think that information is public records, recorded by the driller with whatever agency the permit was drawn through.


Hahaha! I know zero about wells. I'd never even heard of "static level" until I read your post! I can ask my neighbor; if he knows, he'll tell me. At least I won't need to go searching through public records.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Put a coffee cup out in an inch of rain, it will have 1" of water in it.
> 
> Put a Rubbermaid tote out in the same inch of rain, it will have 1" of water in it.
> 
> ...


At any spot, yes. 
There are a lot more "spots" on larger areas.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> Catching the rain off roofs is always a good idea, imo. Great for watering plantings and pets - and no filtering required.


Just keep in mind, it can be loaded with critter and bird poop.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Swrock said:


> We get alot of rain where I live, so I thought about catching the rain for a water source. I placed a large wheel barrow in the open one day during a good rain event and was disappointed in the amount of rain it caught.
> So I put the camper awning out and angled one side down to make the run off east to catch in the wheel barrow. I was surprised to see how quickly it filled the wheel barrow.


I've been in an Alabama rain storm so I believe you. It was so bad that the Handsome Husband pulled into a parking lot to wait it out, while the native drivers were zooming by like no big deal. We get a lot of rain in western Washington, but mostly October through June. July through September can be pretty dry. We almost never get summer rainstorms that dump inches of rain.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

MountainGirl said:


> Will you always have access to water, Annie? Don't know why I'm so hung up on water... maybe because for years we had to haul it up from the lake in barrels before the well was put in... and that was when gas was available for the truck.


It's critical...There's a couple streams closeby and a little fish pond out back. A lake not far...I keep berkey filters on hand. Plus I'm storing it inside, but it's so important that I believe there's never going to be too much I can store.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

paulag1955 said:


> Hahaha! I know zero about wells. I'd never even heard of "static level" until I read your post! I can ask my neighbor; if he knows, he'll tell me. At least I won't need to go searching through public records.




You have a fun learning curve ahead!

I'll always remember - Right after the pump was installed (hooked to a yard spigot, powered by the gen, cabin solar and plumbing not installed yet) the guy asked me if I wanted to try it - I lifted the handle and out came the purest coldest mountain water known to man. I started bawling, tears of joy, bent over and stuck my face in it for a long time. They thought I was crazy, I didn't care. For the first time I _knew_ we would survive up here.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Annie said:


> It's critical...There's a couple streams closeby and a little fish pond out back. A lake not far...I keep berkey filters on hand. Plus I'm storing it inside, but it's so important that I believe there's never going to be too much I can store.


Very glad to hear.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Swrock said:


> We get alot of rain where I live, so I thought about catching the rain for a water source. I placed a large wheel barrow in the open one day during a good rain event and was disappointed in the amount of rain it caught.
> So I put the camper awning out and angled one side down to make the run off east to catch in the wheel barrow. I was surprised to see how quickly it filled the wheel barrow.


Get eaves throughs and downspouts, feed them into a 275-330gl totes. I put up > 1000-gal water by May.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Mad Trapper said:


> Get eaves throughs and downspouts, feed them into a 275-330gl totes. I put up > 1000-gal water by May.


How do you handle the algae, et al ?


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> How do you handle the algae, et al ?


Algae is easily controlled with chlorine. If you're worried about drinking chlorinated water, the water can be poured into clean containers and allowed to sit for 24 hours to dissipate the chlorine, or you can run it through a Berkey-type filter.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Biggest myth in prepping: An EMP *WILL* fry *ALL* electronics. There's way too many variables. Some things can and will survive. My cell phone might get fried, but yours won't. It's all really a crap shoot.


So is old, or newer electrics likely to fail, EMP? I used to work on scientific equipment. Old analog stuff, and newer digital?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> So is old, or newer electrics likely to fail, EMP? I used to work on scientific equipment. Old analog stuff, and newer digital?


God only knows... and he ain't tellin' us.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

paulag1955 said:


> Algae is easily controlled with chlorine. If you're worried about drinking chlorinated water, the water can be poured into clean containers and allowed to sit for 24 hours to dissipate the chlorine, or you can run it through a Berkey-type filter.


Is that how you have done it? I was curious as to Trapper's method. Thanks!
_(I can see where Hermione learned her tendencies..lol) 
_


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Is that how you have done it? I was curious as to Trapper's method. Thanks!
> _(I can see where Hermione learned her tendencies..lol)
> _


Actually, the only water I have stored is purchased water, so I haven't actually done it, but it will work. It would still be a good idea to store the water in a dark place though. It only takes about a teaspoon of unscented household bleach to purify 10 gallons of water. I happen to know a little bit about chlorine because my first husband was the aquatic center manager for a school district. I also have an excellent memory for random facts that may or may not ever be useful.

About the Hermione thing, though...maybe just a little.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

paulag1955 said:


> Actually, the only water I have stored is purchased water, so I haven't actually done it, but it will work. It would still be a good idea to store the water in a dark place though. It only takes about a teaspoon of unscented household bleach to purify 10 gallons of water. I happen to know a little bit about chlorine because my first husband was the aquatic center manager for a school district. I also have an excellent memory for random facts that may or may not ever be useful.
> 
> About the Hermione thing, though...maybe just a little.


A little, lol, okay. 
I appreciate the information you share, but I learn more hearing about your experiences with things you've _actually done_; 
we can all Google -and likely already have.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> God only knows... and he ain't tellin' us.


Here is a clue. Older analog stuff you could go in and touch stuff, except things like capacitors. Go inside a computer and you better be grounded.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

MountainGirl said:


> It's Jan 11, 2020, you and your family are home safe, the sun is about to rise, and you wake to discover there has been a
> 
> 1. Massive coronal event, EMP, whatever - with the result being permanent global electrical shutdown.
> 3. Vehicles wont start, all electronics are fried, phones no longer work, no Google/YouTube to tell you what to do or how to fix things, all you have is what you already have or can make or steal.
> ...


In a worst case scenario and the current solar system zapped we have a spare 4400 watt inverter and 100 amp charge controller along with other smaller spare inverters and controllers in EMP protected containers along with several small lower voltage solar panels ect. Also EMP protected are spare testing meters, some replacement diodes, resistors, ect, and about 1200 watts in large spare panels. Years of tinkering in solar and other methods of power production means we've got some spare bits and pieces.

But if all else fails a hand pump on the well along with some ability to collect rainwater and filter it.

Propane stove that will work when the power is off with always at least two hundred gallons of propane so years of cooking. In addition we use a wood dome oven and rocket stove for cooking regularly, kind of a hobby cooking with wood. Two woodstoves in the house for heat and the solar system runs the AC.

Much of this isn't for prepping. We like using self reliant ways as part of our daily lifestyle and I like to tinker with energy production..

Our biggest weakness would be transportation since we no longer keep horses.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> I appreciate the information you share, but I learn more hearing about your experiences with things you've _actually done_;
> we can all Google -and likely already have.


I get that.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> How do you handle the algae, et al ?


I use the water for garden. If I need to drink I have a bunch of filters, boil, bleach, iodine, and slow sand filter, that feeds a 50-gal barrel.

Algae bleach takes care of. Roof is metal so no stuff from that.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Mad Trapper said:


> I use the water for garden. If I need to drink I have a bunch of filters, boil, bleach, iodine, and slow sand filter, that feeds a 50-gal barrel.
> 
> Algae bleach takes care of. Roof is metal so no stuff from that.


 We looked at the big water totes like you have, to use for a small cistern setup off the well, and decided against that idea for a couple reasons.

Do you by chance have a sketch of your slow sand filter you'd be willing to share?

Thanks for your reply Trapper, most appreciated.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

MountainGirl said:


> That way? I think you could; you're pretty resilient. But I bet you still had power for tools, gas to run to town for food/supplies, etc.


You are absolutely 110% correct. I had all of the power tools and gas to buy food/supplies.

At the time we did the build, we had zero food production ability. Now, we are at maybe 20% of our food needs supplied from our land. By this time next year, I am planning on being close to 70%. You have followed our adventures, so you know what we are doing. I am _pretty_ sure we could supplement the rest with hunting and barter? Our fruit and nut trees will not be producing significantly for another 3-5 years. But we do get some and that is only going to improve.

My biggest concern to our survival is me. After almost 3 years of constant building, (started the next project yesterday BTW, check the blog in a week or two for details), I do not know how much more my body has in me. It does take a hell of a lot more to bounce back from tossing around 80# bags of concrete all day at 53 than it did at 33. For the rest of this project, I think I am going to go with the 60# bags even if they are a bit more expensive per pound.

On the other hand, if SHTF happens while I am out of town, I am basically a dead man walking. I have some basic survival stuff I carry when I travel for business. But in all honesty, my odds of making it out of ANY big city in a SHTF panic situation are about zero.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> We looked at the big water totes like you have, to use for a small cistern setup off the well, and decided against that idea for a couple reasons.
> 
> Do you by chance have a sketch of your slow sand filter you'd be willing to share?
> 
> Thanks for your reply Trapper, most appreciated.


No pictures, my camera is sick and I only have a dumb phone.

55-gal barrel, charcoal on bottom, then a layer of gravel, topped with washed sand. It takes a while for the microbes to set up on the top layer of sand, that kill the bad microbes. I still use a purifier if I am going to drink it, but it comes out pretty clean. Barrel is food grade with removable top.

If you do a search there will be links to making one.

They also make the totes, food grade, that don't let light in. I'm not too concerned as the water is only used for the garden, almost exclusively. I have several filters and purifiers. The Sawyers are good for quite a volume, as is my MSR. The Sawyer purifier is set up for a gravity feed if large volumes are needed.

https://www.cdc.gov/safewater/sand-filtration.html


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

MountainGirl said:


> I am too. My take is that, generally speaking, the grids/systems are either very old needing repair, or modernized and now dependent on computers to keep going.
> 
> That all sounds good. Does your Berkey need power to sanitize? Supply of filters would be handy. We drink our water straight from the well.
> We usually keep a few lidded big garbage cans full of dog food stocked up, but they, like the cats, can and do feed themselves around here.


We have a well too. Although the well water goes through 3 filtration systems we still use the berkey. Mainly my wife's desire. It doesn't need power; just pour in the water and out comes the sanitized water. We have 2 and use one for a back up. We also keep a number of spare filters. They work very well (but not cheap). Push come to shove I can also make my own water filtration system with 2 5gal buckets and the filters.

Regarding the power plants, some are older Technonlgy but all use various PLC and scada equipment that is readily hacked if not properly maintained. The issue over the past decade has been with the internet/intranet it has given engineers in the HQ the ability to tap into the plant (power, refinery, etc) remotely. That alone presents security issues and potential vulnerabilities.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Piratesailor said:


> We have a well too. Although the well water goes through 3 filtration systems we still use the berkey. Mainly my wife's desire. It doesn't need power; just pour in the water and out comes the sanitized water. We have 2 and use one for a back up. We also keep a number of spare filters. They work very well (but not cheap). Push come to shove I can also make my own water filtration system with 2 5gal buckets and the filters.
> 
> Regarding the power plants, some are older Technonlgy but all use various PLC and scada equipment that is readily hacked if not properly maintained. The issue over the past decade has been with the internet/intranet it has given engineers in the HQ the ability to tap into the plant (power, refinery, etc) remotely. That alone presents security issues and potential vulnerabilities.


Have a look at this, does viruses and almost unlimited lifetime. Can be connected to a faucet, and cheaper to purchase than berkey filters

https://sawyer.com/products/sawyer-point-zerotwo-bucket-purifier-assembly-kit/

Will do 170-gallons/day


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

If we ever need to use water that doesn't come out of the well (local stream or roof collection) I'd filter it through sand before running it through a Berkley. Using the sand filter will hopefully remove larger stuff that may plug the Berkley filters. Adding charcoal may also help but only if it's super washed. Otherwise I'd worry that the charcoal dust would plug the Berkley filters.

While I don't have anything larger than a 55 gallon barrel just putting the questionable water in something big and letting the settlement settle to the bottom for a few days before pulling water out of the lower 1/3rd of the container would go a long way towards removing the larger stuff that may plug a Berkley or Sawyer filter. But after that you'd still need something to get rid of the microbes.

Less expensive filters. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006X7NKQU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Keep in mind that for cooking and drinking 2 gallons of clean water per day per person should be plenty. Even if you've got long term stored water in a 55 gallon barrel I'd want to sterilize it before drinking it.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Inor said:


> ...
> 
> My biggest concern to our survival is me. After almost 3 years of constant building, (started the next project yesterday BTW, check the blog in a week or two for details), I do not know how much more my body has in me. It does take a hell of a lot more to bounce back from tossing around 80# bags of concrete all day at 53 than it did at 33. For the rest of this project, I think I am going to go with the 60# bags even if they are a bit more expensive per pound.
> 
> ....


Oh brother, you couldn't be more right on that. Tom & I have 10 years on you. We worked like hell in 2016, slept/recovered most of 2017, was able to pick back up in 18, finished the last of the big builds (the rocks) last summer. We both have enough left in us for maintenance & wood harvest...but that's about it. After I barely had the energy to life the 50# bag of quickcrete for my little project last Aug - I told Tom I was done, that's it. He agreed. Normal chores, no problem. The good news is, it will be enough. 
Thanks for your reply.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I’ll soon be 69 and the old body is giving out. No way can I handle an 80 pound bag of anything. Before I did as much as possible myself. Now, not so much. I let the garage change my oil. I just hired a guy to make minor mods to my chimney. Letting the pros install two new windows tomorrow. I’ve installed a few roofs in my day. Now I’ll soon need a new metal roof on this house and Again, bringing in the pros this summer for that job. Probably the amish. Thank god I can afford to get someone else to do some of these jobs cause my ‘heavy labor’ days are definitely over.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Elvis said:


> In a worst case scenario and the current solar system zapped we have a spare 4400 watt inverter and 100 amp charge controller along with other smaller spare inverters and controllers in EMP protected containers along with several small lower voltage solar panels ect. Also EMP protected are spare testing meters, some replacement diodes, resistors, ect, and about 1200 watts in large spare panels. Years of tinkering in solar and other methods of power production means we've got some spare bits and pieces.
> 
> But if all else fails a hand pump on the well along with some ability to collect rainwater and filter it.
> 
> ...


Hey Elvis, nice to hear from you.

Cooking with wood is the best, imo. I built a little rocket stove using common brick & the best mornings is sitting out next to it, waiting for the coffee water to boil, under the trees, watching the sun light up the world.  Didn't build a dome oven, but I did build a campfire setup exclusively for wood cooking - and look forward to using it even more, now that the projects are done.

We have no backup parts for our solar system whatsoever. We're prepped to not need it; yes, it's nice to be able to use the easy ways but having electricity is no longer a critical thing for us. I even had a little primitive Chalet built up here, for me to escape from the fridge hum, etc lol. Candles for light, small Jotul woodstove. Heaven. 

Thanks for your other posts too. Very informative!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Elvis said:


> If we ever need to use water that doesn't come out of the well (local stream or roof collection) I'd filter it through sand before running it through a Berkley. Using the sand filter will hopefully remove larger stuff that may plug the Berkley filters. Adding charcoal may also help but only if it's super washed. Otherwise I'd worry that the charcoal dust would plug the Berkley filters.
> 
> While I don't have anything larger than a 55 gallon barrel just putting the questionable water in something big and letting the settlement settle to the bottom for a few days before pulling water out of the lower 1/3rd of the container would go a long way towards removing the larger stuff that may plug a Berkley or Sawyer filter. But after that you'd still need something to get rid of the microbes.
> 
> ...


The Sawyer (not the mini) and Berkley are purifiers, what comes out is almost sterile, they remove viruses . If you store it add 1/2 teaspoon/10 drops of bleach/gallon, boiling also works but has no residual effect.

When you set up a sand filter with charcoal, run it to get rid of fines, both sand and carbon. Charcoal will remove organics, that sand wont; pesticides, herbicides, oils/fuel, some organic toxins.

I have a charcoal filter on my tap water to get rid of sediment from the well. You need to run it to get rid of fines.

You can buy powdered charcoal, or make your own, sand is plentiful but make sure the machinery used does not leak petroleum.

If you invest in a lab grade microscope, culture media, and chemical stains, you can check your water yourself. Get a biochemistry/microbiology lab manual too.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Piratesailor said:


> We have a well too. Although the well water goes through 3 filtration systems we still use the berkey. Mainly my wife's desire. It doesn't need power; just pour in the water and out comes the sanitized water. We have 2 and use one for a back up. We also keep a number of spare filters. They work very well (but not cheap). Push come to shove I can also make my own water filtration system with 2 5gal buckets and the filters.
> 
> Regarding the power plants, some are older Technonlgy but all use various PLC and scada equipment that is readily hacked if not properly maintained. The issue over the past decade has been with the internet/intranet it has given engineers in the HQ the ability to tap into the plant (power, refinery, etc) remotely. That alone presents security issues and potential vulnerabilities.


It surely does. 
Did you see what happened in Ontario overnight? LOL Apparently an alarm went off at a Nuclear plant, warning residents nearby to stay tuned for instructions, etc... Turns out that the broadcasted warning was sent out by accident, there was never a problem, but it caused 10,000 people to panic. If something like that can happen, God knows what else can. 
Thanks again, for all your replies.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Chiefster23 said:


> I'll soon be 69 and the old body is giving out. No way can I handle an 80 pound bag of anything. Before I did as much as possible myself. Now, not so much. I let the garage change my oil. I just hired a guy to make minor mods to my chimney. Letting the pros install two new windows tomorrow. I've installed a few roofs in my day. Now I'll soon need a new metal roof on this house and Again, bringing in the pros this summer for that job. Probably the amish. Thank god I can afford to get someone else to do some of these jobs cause my 'heavy labor' days are definitely over.


I hear ya. Our stated goal when we started this back in 2016, was to get this place to the point where when we were old(er) there'd be as little physical requirement as possible. Good thing we got there - cause it sure wore us out in the process.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Chiefster23 said:


> I'll soon be 69 and the old body is giving out. No way can I handle an 80 pound bag of anything. Before I did as much as possible myself. Now, not so much. I let the garage change my oil. I just hired a guy to make minor mods to my chimney. Letting the pros install two new windows tomorrow. I've installed a few roofs in my day. Now I'll soon need a new metal roof on this house and Again, bringing in the pros this summer for that job. Probably the amish. Thank god I can afford to get someone else to do some of these jobs cause my 'heavy labor' days are definitely over.


As I get older I am less enthusiastic about doing everything myself. Having the Water Oak out front cut down this spring, a job that when I was younger, I would have done myself. Screw that. I am having a pro come in and he will have it gone in a day. Work on my own cars? No, why spend a weekend under car. Take it to the shop and it's done. New floors, countertops and inside paint? Nope, not doing any of it myself. A contractor can do it in half the time I can and it saves my back and knees.

I don't know that I am any smarter, have more money , or just plain lazy, but the older I get, the less I care about always doing it myself. :tango_face_grin:


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> It surely does.
> Did you see what happened in Ontario overnight? LOL Apparently an alarm went off at a Nuclear plant, warning residents nearby to stay tuned for instructions, etc... Turns out that the broadcasted warning was sent out by accident, there was never a problem, but it caused 10,000 people to panic. If something like that can happen, God knows what else can.
> Thanks again, for all your replies.


It's only a matter of time until one of those plants go boom, either because of neglect or terrorism. I have KI tablets but those will only help my thyroid. Surface/rain water will be bad, deep wells might be O.K. for a while.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Prepared One said:


> I don't know that I am any smarter, have more money , or just plain lazy, but the older I get, the less I care about always doing it myself.


It's funny how people mature. I'm contrary to you--if I own something (other than an expensive 1890s watch) I want to be the one who adjusts it, cleans it, stores it and worries over it.

It's not just doing my own sharpening. No one gets more bugs off the front end of a vehicle than I do. I the best one in the neighborhood for washing blue jeans. I'm the one who finds the errant O-rings on the kitchen counters.

Then again, my dad was an engineer, a padlock designer not a railroad engineer. If any mechanical device we had at home ever 'squeaked,' and I mean once and never again, my dad would take the 'troublesome device' down into his workshop and disassemble it, re-assemble it and disassemble it once more just to make sure it was perfect.

When I was eight years old the doctors thought I had an appendicitis. My biggest fear was not being cut, it was the idea that my dad might cut me open several times just to make sure I was healing correctly...


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Mad Trapper said:


> It's only a matter of time until one of those plants go boom, either because of *neglect or terrorism*. I have KI tablets but those will only help my thyroid. Surface/rain water will be bad, deep wells might be O.K. for a while.


I think you can add 'increasing human stupidity' to that list. 
We're 100 miles away from the nearest nuclear endeavor, and (so far) always upwind. But things change, and no reason to think the wind wont.
Our 200' well taps into a deep flow coming down from the north. There's surface (swamp) water we could harvest down at the base of our mountain...but that would be not easy or pleasant...but it's there, and that's good.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> It's only a matter of time until one of those plants go boom, either because of neglect or terrorism. I have KI tablets but those will only help my thyroid. Surface/rain water will be bad, deep wells might be O.K. for a while.


They won't go boom, but can melt down and dissipate a large amount of radioactive particulates.

With the right filters, it can be extracted from the water you use if contaminated. Big Berkey's will do it.

If there is a problem, you can use a NBC mask with expired filters to protect you lungs.

Soap and water will decon the external you.

For those who don't know, those are solids (micron sized) not a gas, and as such can be filtered out.

I have a modern Geiger counter (Rad 50) and monitor background radiation once a week with NO CHANGES from 19 years ago.

Nothing was changed here after the Fukishima disaster, I followed the cloud reports that was supposed to cause problems here.

It was a non event here in the northeast.

The probability of terrorist breaching security is highly unlikely today, plants have tactical teams just in case of an attack.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> The Sawyer (not the mini) and Berkley are purifiers, what comes out is almost sterile, they remove viruses . If you store it add 1/2 teaspoon/10 drops of bleach/gallon, boiling also works but has no residual effect.
> 
> When you set up a sand filter with charcoal, run it to get rid of fines, both sand and carbon. Charcoal will remove organics, that sand wont; pesticides, herbicides, oils/fuel, some organic toxins.
> 
> ...


Make me laugh! I have all of it!

A small point, to properly make charcoal, it must be done in a gasifier type process,

It must be carbonized in a generally O2 free system, burn the emitted gases coming out of the pipe.

not exposed to open flame as some have shown.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Here's our setup.
> Except for the medicinal herbs - we're already doing these things, alongside our lazy-ass comfortable off-grid solar living LOL
> 
> Hand pump on the well, wood for heat&cooking that can be harvested/processed by hand, hand tools, good supply of game and the skills to preserve it. We bow-hunt; arrows can be recovered, reused. Wild vegetation for calories/nutrition/medicines (as soon as I learn more about medicinal herbs), cannibis and wild kinnikinnick for smoking. Self-feeding cats and guard dogs. Not everything is listed here, including security set-ups...but none of it requires electricity, gas or propane. Our near-neighbors shouldn't be a problem as they're set-up like we are, and the hot-hungry-hordes are 50 miles away, and they'll be on foot.
> ...


Relying on skills rather than stuff is, IMO, better than relying on stuff with no skills. Stored stuff will run out eventually.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

SOCOM42 said:


> No good for me, trees all the way around, no direct sunlight.
> 
> Will work if I put them on the outer edges of the parking lot.


Solar is just a bad option in western Washington. East of the Cascades is as good a place as any other in the U.S. for solar.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

How much protection do you suppose a metal building will give to whatever's stored inside in the event of an EMP or CME?


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

paulag1955 said:


> How much protection do you suppose a metal building will give to whatever's stored inside in the event of an EMP or CME?


My cell phone gets through an aluminum sided building. I imagine an EMP would too.

I think you want a sealed grounded metal container. I've thought about putting coils, condenser, chainsaw coils, and 1-wire GM distributors , for my old equipment. New stuff, car/trucks, computers etc is at risk


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Mad Trapper said:


> My cell phone gets through an aluminum sided building. I imagine an EMP would too.
> 
> I think you want a sealed grounded metal container. I've thought about putting coils, condenser, chainsaw coils, and 1-wire GM distributors , for my old equipment. New stuff, car/trucks, computers etc is at risk


My cell phone doesn't and neither does the GPS in my car, which is why I asked.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> My cell phone gets through an aluminum sided building. I imagine an EMP would too.........


Another myth about EMPs: They are just like the radio waves we use for communication.

Aluminum siding may not stop your cell phone from working, but it may block an EMP. Depends on the intensity and frequency of it. Same applies to ammo cans.... microwaves.... metal coolers from the 60s.

So we're back to: Who knows?


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

MountainGirl said:


> We have no backup parts for our solar system whatsoever. We're prepped to not need it; yes, it's nice to be able to use the easy ways but having electricity is no longer a critical thing for us.


I didn't set out to build up a spare part stockpile but I've been tinkering with making electricity for a long time. In addition to building and selling various turbines along with their various controls I occasionally teach a class on electrical production, usually solar but occasionally I travel to evaluate or teach about hydro sites.

I'm no longer building turbines but still have a collection of oddball pieces.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

paulag1955 said:


> How much protection do you suppose a metal building will give to whatever's stored inside in the event of an EMP or CME?


According to tests the NSA has done unless you've got the metal building seams and doors covered with metal tape not much protection.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

A good event will fry the cell towers/power grid. Transformers are no longer a USA product, grid will be down ~4 years

I've read up on cold war prepping. They did some damage to Hawaii with a nuke test in the pacific. 

I'm not a specialist but I took college physics and physical chemistry. I've read up on this stuff in scientific journals

You are correct if it's a nuke or a Carrington event, latter will shut down everything


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Elvis said:


> According to tests the NSA has done unless you've got the metal building seams and doors covered with metal tape not much protection.


EMP travels just like any other electro-magnetic field: In waves. A metal building might make the difference between an electronic device surviving and it not. There may be enough shielding to reduce the power of in incoming pulse to weaken it to the point the device isn't affected. Just like waves on the beach on the down-wind side of an island.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Elvis said:


> According to tests the NSA has done unless you've got the metal building seams and doors covered with metal tape not much protection.


Thanks, good to know.


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> EMP travels just like any other electro-magnetic field: In waves. A metal building might make the difference between an electronic device surviving and it not. There may be enough shielding to reduce the power of in incoming pulse to weaken it to the point the device isn't affected. Just like waves on the beach on the down-wind side of an island.


Like the analogy, and also discussing it in terms of shielding.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

have a look here:

Electromagnetic Pulse History - Futurescience.com


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Back Pack Hack said:


> EMP travels just like any other electro-magnetic field: In waves. A metal building might make the difference between an electronic device surviving and it not. There may be enough shielding to reduce the power of in incoming pulse to weaken it to the point the device isn't affected. Just like waves on the beach on the down-wind side of an island.


Thus the wording "not much protection" used in my previous post. When testing on a galvanized steel trashcan with the lid tightly on the EMP strength was reduced about 20% with about 80% still getting through. But wrapping metal tape around the lid more than doubled the protection against the EMP waves cutting their strength to less than half.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Elvis said:


> Thus the wording "not much protection" used in my previous post. When testing on a galvanized steel trashcan with the lid tightly on the EMP strength was reduced about 20% with about 80% still getting through. But wrapping metal tape around the lid more than doubled the protection against the EMP waves cutting their strength to less than half.


What sort of generator for an EMP? Wavelengths? How? Sure not a bomb.......

Did you ground the can? Like to plumbing or a copper rod 4' deep?

See post #113 and references therein.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Prepared One said:


> As I get older I am less enthusiastic about doing everything myself. Having the Water Oak out front cut down this spring, a job that when I was younger, I would have done myself. Screw that. I am having a pro come in and he will have it gone in a day. Work on my own cars? No, why spend a weekend under car. Take it to the shop and it's done. New floors, countertops and inside paint? Nope, not doing any of it myself. A contractor can do it in half the time I can and it saves my back and knees.
> 
> I don't know that I am any smarter, have more money , or just plain lazy, but the older I get, the less I care about always doing it myself. :tango_face_grin:


I'm with you on that. Although I'm capable working on many things I'm not an expert. Usually an expert can do a proper job less expensive than I can (and not muck it up like I can). There are some things I'll do and some I won't.

I've also learned the value of mechanical advantage and power tools... mainly my tractor!


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Mad Trapper said:


> What sort of generator for an EMP? Wavelengths? How? Sure not a bomb.......
> 
> Did you ground the can? Like to plumbing or a copper rod 4' deep?
> 
> See post #113 and references therein.


A MSW (modified sine wave) generator has simpler electronics in the inverter part than a PSW (pure sine wave) inverter but I doubt either would do well if unshielded.

You do not ground the can, box, or EMP bag. Some studies show that grounding the container may actually increase the charge that gets into the container.

Simple shielding for something like a radio would be to put the radio in a thick plastic bag. A ziplock freezer bag will work. Then wrap tightly in foil. That makes one insulated layer. Add 2 more layers of bag and foil and the radio will be protected from all but the strongest E1 and E2 waves. With something smaller than about 15' long//tall the E3 wave is not a factor.

For additional protection put the wrapped radio in a steel trashcan. Use metal tape to seal the can lid and around where the handle rivets penetrate the can. Then line the can with an insulating material, cardboard will work. Do not run a ground wire from the can to a ground rod.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Elvis said:


> .....For additional protection put the wrapped radio in a steel trashcan. Use metal tape to seal the can lid and around where the handle rivets penetrate the can. Then line the can with an insulating material, cardboard will work. Do not run a ground wire from the can to a ground rod.


You also need to tape all the seams of the can itself.... around the bottom where it meets the sides, and the seam(s) on the side(s).


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Elvis said:


> A MSW (modified sine wave) generator has simpler electronics in the inverter part than a PSW (pure sine wave) inverter but I doubt either would do well if unshielded.
> 
> You do not ground the can, box, or EMP bag. Some studies show that grounding the container may actually increase the charge that gets into the container.
> 
> ...


What about those mylar bags that circuit boards come in?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

paulag1955 said:


> What about those mylar bags that circuit boards come in?


They're made to disperse static electric discharges. Yeah, they might work in an EMP, but I'd add a couple more layers.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> They're made to disperse static electric discharges. Yeah, they might work in an EMP, but I'd add a couple more layers.


Okay, thanks.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Back Pack Hack said:


> You also need to tape all the seams of the can itself.... around the bottom where it meets the sides, and the seam(s) on the side(s).


With the steel cans I've seen the bottom and seams are solid bead welded so no tape needed at those joints. But if you want to tape them it won't hurt.


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

Well, for starters, I'd go in the garage and dust of my boxes full of prepping supplies. 

I'd first focus on finding the candles and getting the different stoves prepped. 

Then I would bring the food, oil, and fuel into a more secure location... guarded

After I set a ration schedule for the family, I would plot the areas on my mountain to forage prickly pear and mesquite beans. I'd get ahold of them first while everyone else is raiding the grocery stores. 

Then, I'd have to set up the pool in the back yard to catch rain runoff but, the water tank would suffice until the next rain storm.... if not, I know where all the reservoirs are located. I would make it a priority to conduct a recon to determine if they have increased security... if not, I would take as much water as I want and treat it accordingly. 

Once I feel the situation is beginning to destabilize outside, I would begin pulling night shift guard duty. 

After the first few weeks of no food / lawlessness / riotous behavior, the pirates are going to have a hard time keeping their identity hidden. My team will then work diligently hunting them down to bring harmony back to our town. 

And they all lived happily ever after, The End.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Verba Bellum said:


> Well, for starters, I'd go in the garage and dust of my boxes full of prepping supplies.
> 
> I'd first focus on finding the candles and getting the different stoves prepped.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you've given this some thought. 

I'm curious about this: _"Once I feel the situation is beginning to destabilize outside..."_

How will you know? I mean, what signs will you look for or see?​As dependent as the sheep are now - I think panic would happen pretty fast...
Thanks -


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Sounds like you've given this some thought.
> 
> I'm curious about this: _"Once I feel the situation is beginning to destabilize outside..."_
> 
> ...


Well, It's a personal framework that I use to judge the situation. And the framework really has to do with the level of organization and the types of activities that are being carried out.

Obviously, there will be panic and riots... maybe some damage to commercial properties and places of business in the city, but to me, I would not consider that "destabilized" so long as law enforcement is still around and acting in an official capacity.

Now, the threshold is crossed when the following two situations occur:
1. Organized groups begin killing / attacking innocent civilians
2. Law Enforcement no longer operates

By definition, a "failed State" occurs when a government can no longer provide goods and services to their citizens.. the main service I'm concerned about here is protection / law enforcement. At that point, I consider the situation "destabilized" and it then becomes my groups responsibility to enforce justice for the innocent.

But, you also asked "How will you know?" and "What signs will you look for?"
1. I will know from simple observation of the activities going on in the surrounding area. I also have friends all over the city that will keep me informed. 
2. I will look for the following signs: 
a. Police are not showing up to work because they are either afraid or not getting paid
b. Murder / mugging is occurring at an increased rate within the city.

That's pretty much it.


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

Verba Bellum said:


> But, you also asked "How will you know?" and "What signs will you look for?"
> 1. I will know from simple observation of the activities going on in the surrounding area. I also have friends all over the city that will keep me informed.
> 2. I will look for the following signs:
> a. Police are not showing up to work because they are either afraid or not getting paid
> ...


I like this answer a lot, and like you our security plans (and rules of engagement) change drastically if our sheriff and deputies aren't showing up for work or taking dispatches to keep the peace/enforce the law. Problem is, following an EMP there may not be phone or internet/cable, which leaves only radio assuming any of those still function (and I'd bet at least some will). If I don't hear the "10-8"'s of the deputies reporting in for duty anymore, we're going into *full* lockdown mode.

I keep some radios and force multipliers in EM shielded containers as Elvis described in post #117. Motion sensors, police scanner, CB/GMRS/ham radios, and some other electronic goodies I wouldn't want to be without.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Verba Bellum said:


> .....
> 
> That's pretty much it.


Thanks you sir for your detailed reply. It answered questions I'd not yet considered.
Thank you too, @Crunch - for your contribution to this thread.

I know the topic is about EMPs - but, imo, it's impossible to not keep the backdrop of Virginia in mind as well.
Thanks again, all.
Stay safe.


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

Crunch said:


> Problem is, following an EMP there may not be phone or internet/cable, .


A simple way to reestablish a computer network is by using YAGI antennas and wireless routers. Just create a local network without a password. You'll be able to share files and all kinds of stuff. Just have that equipment and a few laptops stashed away in a faraday cage. You can get cheap old laptops on craigslist, thriftstore, and ebay. They'll work perfect for that.

And... you'll obviously need a way to generate electricity....


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Having at least some ability to recharge batteries would go a long way towards improving life quality and security. 
Some battery powered items that would be wonderful to have and be able to power.
AM/FM/shortwave radio receiver,,, CD or digital music player,,, 2 way hand held radios,,, flashlights,,, LED lanterns,,, driveway alarms which can be used for perimeter security around your property,,, nightvision or thermal vision.

Depending on the strength and wavelengths of the EMP many small items may still be functional if you can keep them powered.

So you've spent $1000+ on other preps. Maybe it's worth spending $100 for a 15 watt solar panel with USB output, a USB powered battery charger, and some Eneloop rechargeable batteries.


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

Elvis said:


> Having at least some ability to recharge batteries would go a long way towards improving life quality and security.
> Some battery powered items that would be wonderful to have and be able to power.
> AM/FM/shortwave radio receiver,,, CD or digital music player,,, 2 way hand held radios,,, flashlights,,, LED lanterns,,, driveway alarms which can be used for perimeter security around your property,,, nightvision or thermal vision.
> 
> ...


This ^^^

Was messing around with a solution like that last summer, small 10 watt solar panel, cigarette lighter voltage adapter, and a Energizer battery charger (that runs normally off a 'wallwart' converting 120 VAC to 12 VDC, but powered by the battery in this case).










If you just need to charge a couple of AA batts each day, it'd work.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Crunch said:


> This ^^^
> 
> Was messing around with a solution like that last summer, small 10 watt solar panel, cigarette lighter voltage adapter, and a Energizer battery charger (that runs normally off a 'wallwart' converting 120 VAC to 12 VDC, but powered by the battery in this case).
> 
> ...


Yea, I have a setup like yours but now days a direct to USB solar panel seems to be a better choice for small electronics.


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

Elvis said:


> Yea, I have a setup like yours but now days a direct to USB solar panel seems to be a better choice for small electronics.


Standardizing on whatever option will save money in the long run. Problem is, the standards keep changing  I like 12v since it's compatible with automotive power systems, but USB is pretty much 'the' standard nowadays.


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