# An interesting article on AI



## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

A friend of mine is a section head for the UnderSec for Intelligence in the DoD and shared this. so I pass it on to you.

The link below is a 2-part observance of artificial intelligence, (AI).

Note - It is lengthy, has big words, but there are enough pictures to keep it interesting.

The AI Revolution: Road to Superintelligence - Wait But Why

So... how does this apply to prepping? Being informed and current is important. 
If you are approaching retirement you may not care.
If your kids/grandkids are preppers, they may understand better than you.
It you are a 20-30 something... whatcha gonna do? Which "Camp" are you in now? (see part 2).


----------



## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

This stuff acts two ways on me; it hurts my brain and scares the crap out of me!


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Kinda like the "terminator" thing. My wife won't even drive a car with cruise control even if she doesn't use it. Feels she is not in control. She is from Peru. Thinks she understands "Freedom". jmo. Had to hunt like heck to find a base model that didn't have it. 02 Kia, she loves it! this was 12 years ago, still driving and loving it!! 250,000 miles. Not looking to rob the thread, pertains to EMP and non- tech stuff. We rely too much on this crap. I know, kia has electronics, but before tracking came out.


----------



## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Hemi45 said:


> This stuff acts two ways on me; it hurts my brain and scares the crap out of me!


Hemi45, I think my brains were swollen and leaking outta my ears before I was done reading part-1. 

1skrewsloose, you hit on one of the major points of the article. AI is already here. I often remind people that long before smart phones came out, the car mounted phones and flip phones were not private, and were traceable.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I am beginning to think that computers are the scourge of our younger generation. 
It seems that if you are under 40, computers have taken over so much that people 
don't have common sense and aren't able to reason thru a problem. Case in point.

Had 2 recalls on my 2010 Elantra Touring that will take 1 hour for a Thursday morning appointment. 
The big one was for a computer software update for the Electronic power steering. The computer
might shut the power steering down for no reason. After nearly 2 hours, I had to ask what's happening, 
"Your battery is low and is being charged." Half hour later, "Your car has no power steering (it worked 
fine when it came in) because your battery is now dead (after charging it ???)." 
I explain that my car was fine when I brought in, and fine when they drove it. How can the battery be 
dead? She shows me a strip of paper, from their computer that shows, zero power (on a gas gauge like 
symbol). Since I still couldn't believe it, and ask if anyone has actually put a load test meter on it. 
"No, the computer on the car tells our service computer if the battery is ok or not." I asked if the car 
starts. "Yes, that's how we know the power steering doesn't work (duh, stupid owner)." 
Another writer says to take it out for a test drive. So I see the writer start the engine for a test drive. 
When the she comes back, I ask her and the tech (maybe 21 or 22) to try the radio, the windows, the 
lights, A/C, etc. and everything is working, except the power steering "fixed" with software update. 
I finally get to talk to the service *"mangler"* with the writer and ask them to put the old software 
back in the computer. 
"Can't do that. Besides, we're sure it's the battery. We'll get a new battery into it and we'll split the 
cost 50/50." 
I ask, "How does it start if the battery is dead?" 
"Oh, down here batteries can just suddenly fail from the heat." 
I finally ask, "There's no possibility that the software is bad?" 
"No, we've done about a hundred of these updates and never had a problem. It's the battery, the 
computer shows it's dead." So another half hour later, "A rental car will be provided so you can come 
back Saturday because we don't have time to change the battery right now. *But* we can't guarantee
it'll be fixed tomorrow. It might be Monday or so." (They work 12 hours a day and 10 hours on Saturday)
So I spent another hour waiting on rental. No call on Friday or Saturday. 12:00 Monday I call, battery was 
replaced but it's not the problem, they're still checking. I call at 4:00 and the service writer says their
best technician thinks it's a bad module in the steering column so they are replacing the module right now. 
I call at 5:00, and they've replaced another module now too, but it's still not working. The tech is now talking 
to Hyundai corporate for help. An hour later I get called to pick up my car. The tech's "computer" *didn't* 
upload the right software update into my car's computer. Apparently the tech's computer looks at the car's c
omputer and decides which update to load. Corporate told the tech which update to manually upload into the 
car's computer and viola, it works. No Charge for anything. :whew:
Todays young technicians look at the computer and believe what it tells them even if it can't be real. Diagnostic skills 
seem to be gone. I mean how does a car start, run, etc. if the battery is dead. The Air Korea crash at San Francisco
is another great example of depending on the computer to the point of stupidity.
Throughout all my conversations it was repeatedly implied that the problem was in MY car, so it would be my 
expense, and not the service performed.
On the cool side, they didn't put my 5 year old battery back into the car. Nice SCORE.:excitement::excitement:

Remember "War Games". Somebody will believe that missiles are on their way and they'll push the button.


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

This is my standard answer to these threads. That day is here my friends...


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Quite a long read, and even longer if, you too, followed the linked articles.

To put this into a perspective everyone can all understand...
In the next few decades, life as we know it will change, drastically, and unimaginably.
It might as well be considered unavoidable.
We are not talking about surviving an 'EOTWAWKI' scenario. There will be no means of retaliation or "recovery".
*IF* we reach this goal, that's it. Everything changes. We could live forever, or we could be wiped clean from this planet.
Humans will have little say in the matter once the time comes.
With far too many players in the game, it's simply not worth worrying about.

I consider it the same scenario as looking death in the eye.
If you woke up tomorrow, and all over the news was the story of an incoming planet-killer asteroid on a direct coarse to Earth, arriving in 2 days... that's it.
There's nothing we can do. There are no preps that will save you, no way to avoid the inevitable.

Personally, I look forward to it. Good or bad.
Prep for the things you can survive, don't sweat the things you can't change.

(I want to live inside a fully prosthetic body, ala "Ghost in the Shell"  ) (No, that isn't a joke.)


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Kind of surprised only a handful of posts here. I saw this yesterday and wanted to see what was going to be said; no I haven't had a chance to read the link provided yet but will get to it because the topic intrigues me. I'll float this little scenario going alone with some others.....

1) Lets say our government knows who shot Kennedy and if we knew why - we'd thank them.
2) Lets say our government knew terrorist would attack the US on 9/11 and if we knew why - we'd thank them.
3) So project lets say Russia, China and the US simultaneously return the world to the 1800's pre power with a world wide EMP event - and we can now imagine why - we'd thank them! Something's gotta kill the machine!


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

So much technology is forced upon us with no option. Buy a new car or truck and it'll be connected to satellites, OnStar. And it will have WiFi / 4g and have a tablet in the dash for navigation and ordering sushi. What happened to basic getting from point A to point B. This unneeded tech puts the price through the roof, and problems with the technology increases costs even more. I haven't read the entire article yet but I'll probably soon and try yo comment?


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Computers are stupid, you have to tell them exactly what you want. I don't know if this was covered in there but the human has to create the computer, he has to program it. The problems come in when one computer designs another all by itself. That is the only way AI could start. Actually I don't believe AI will come to be.

On a completely different subject I would like to link to quantum computing.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing


----------



## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

James m said:


> Computers are stupid, you have to tell them exactly what you want. I don't know if this was covered in there but the human has to create the computer, he has to program it. The problems come in when one computer designs another all by itself. That is the only way AI could start. Actually I don't believe AI will come to be.
> 
> On a completely different subject I would like to link to quantum computing.
> 
> Quantum computing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quantum computing is a different topic. Los Alamos Natl Lab as been testing Quantum Internet for quite a while now. Los Alamos National Lab has had quantum-encrypted internet for over two years

I could not find the link just now but there is an Idea of using quantum internet and implants on humans... for many reasons.

Yet, it also applies to the first graphic in the AI article.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

James m said:


> Computers are stupid, you have to tell them exactly what you want. I don't know if this was covered in there but the human has to create the computer, he has to program it. The problems come in when one computer designs another all by itself. That is the only way AI could start. Actually I don't believe AI will come to be.
> 
> On a completely different subject I would like to link to quantum computing.
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing


Just read the first page of the OP's link, and you'll start to understand the progress already being made in the field of AI. True, we don't have human level AI yet, but if the tech curve contiues as it always has, we are speeding toward it, and once we hit it, it might fly by that line, and evolve into something we don't comprehend yet. The AI the article talks about is one that can improve itself, if that helps.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

AI already exists. It has for some time but it is growing. Watson, is a self learning computer. It "learns" in order to solve riddles. The "epiphany" will occur when the computer has enough "power" to become self aware. Once that happens life, for us will change. It might be better, it might just end. The three cardinal rules of robotics cannot be implemented and stay static. They are not a defence but a method to control people and not the machines. If we become part of the technology then it might be possible to maintain an advantage over the machines but, do you want to live that way?


----------



## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

PaulS said:


> AI already exists. It has for some time but it is growing. Watson, is a self learning computer. It "learns" in order to solve riddles. The "epiphany" will occur when the computer has enough "power" to become self aware. Once that happens life, for us will change. It might be better, it might just end. The three cardinal rules of robotics cannot be implemented and stay static. They are not a defence but a method to control people and not the machines. If we become part of the technology then it might be possible to maintain an advantage over the machines but, do you want to live that way?


I didn't realize, this until I read your above comment. The article refers to 2025 (10 years from now) that computers will have the same brain power as humans...

In the movie "I, Robot"


> It's the year 2035, and the community now has the help of robots. These robots have three laws integrated into their system.
> One, they cannot harm a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
> Two, they must do whatever they're told by a human being as long as such orders don't conflict with law one.
> Three, they have to defend themselves as long as such defense doesn't conflict with laws one or two.







Yes, I own the movie, and watch it with my grand-daughter... only now it seems like a training film... sorta like the movie "Red Dawn" (the 1984 version).


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If you look closely at law one it shows the way for machines to own us. They are programmed to keep us from harming ourselves or others. Without a moral code to go with this they simply must keep us from doing risky or dangerous things and they must keep us from harming others... This is exactly what socialism tries to do. There is only one law required in robotics; "There can be no interference with the actions of humans until a law is broken."

Why would you give rights (like self defence) to any machine?


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

If AI gets to a certain point of intelligence and self thinking, when does it constitute "life". That's my mental block. Something would have to come out of nothing, either God or a big bang type of creation. Besides looking up information in a premade list, if the computer is made by a human, then the intelligence of the computer must be less than the person who made it or limited by his intelligence.

Please wait while AI installs windows updates. Do not turn off your AI. 1% done.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

James m said:


> If AI gets to a certain point of intelligence and self thinking, when does it constitute "life". That's my mental block. Something would have to come out of nothing, either God or a big bang type of creation. Besides looking up information in a premade list, if the computer is made by a human, then the intelligence of the computer must be less than the person who made it or limited by his intelligence.
> 
> Please wait while AI installs windows updates. Do not turn off your AI. 1% done.


If we invent a method to cause a human-level AI to improve itself, it will rapidly surpass humankind's collective intelligence.
The article equates this to our intelligence versus that of a chimpanzee. They are bright, but they will never be able to comprehend the things that we can.
Likewise, the learning human-level AI that is made to learn and improve itself will quickly understand concepts outside of our own understanding.
We will be like the chimps to it.
Even if it does put up with us, trying to inform us of some concept it knows, we may be incapable of learning it no matter what it does.

Suppose this entity was able to, due to its grossly outperforming processing power, understand the very essence of a black hole. It derives concepts based on this understanding that make perfect sense to it, and are mathematically flawless. Then, it turns to us to try to explain. We look dumbfounded because we can't fully comprehend what it means for a 3-dimensional object to have growing mass, infinite density, and zero volume. (if you think you fully understand that, you are kidding yourself) Try as it might, we are limited to what we can understand, at some point.

Caveat: Yes, I know you *think* you know what infinite density and zero volume mean, but it is impossible for us to know. It is like a being from another dimension trying to explain to us what their origin place is like. We only know 4 dimensions, and are limited to them. We could not possibly comprehend what they would try to tell us. (See the story "Flatland" for more on this) We would hear the words(or thoughts), nod our heads, and stare blankly ahead. The lightbulb would never light.

We don't like to think of our own limitations. It forces us to accept inferiority.
For any who accept the existence of a higher deity, this is less difficult.
Accepting the idea that a being exists that far exceeds my capacity to understand this existence, and the laws that govern it, is not hard for me.
Accepting that we, as frail and limited humans, may develop a technology that eventually becomes a step between us and that deity is even easier.

I actually don't fear the potential for ASI in my lifetime. It will be a wild ride, no matter how it goes. I'm just excited that I might get to see it.


----------

