# Don't blame the gun, blame the ammo



## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm just as bad and everyone else, perhaps worse?, I buy the cheapest ammo I can find, Ok, I am still shying away from steel case (except for my Mosin) but otherwise cheapo it is for me. 
Then I get to the range and what to I expect? to be able to drive nails with every shot. Here is a short video on how different ammo shoots through the same weapon. He's using a Mosin, but I am sure the same is true for any platform. Just a little food for thought.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Moonshinedave said:


> I'm just as bad and everyone else, perhaps worse?, I buy the cheapest ammo I can find, Ok, I am still shying away from steel case (except for my Mosin) but otherwise cheapo it is for me.
> *Then I get to the range and what to I expect? to be able to drive nails with every shot*. Here is a short video on how different ammo shoots through the same weapon. He's using a Mosin, but I am sure the same is true for any platform. Just a little food for thought.


Maybe that's more of the problem then the ammo? I mean to think of this critically, not berate anyone's personal process.

I carry Hornady Critical Duty in my EDC, but it's ridiculous to think I could afford to go to the range and put a couple hundred rounds of it down range every time. Even if I made twice or three times as much money as I do now, I wouldn't do that. The difference is I'm not aiming for a little one inch red circle... well, I mean I am, but I don't worry when a few rounds stray, so long as I hit the target. I practice moving, I practice drawing, I practice a large variety of things that keep my pulse up and my brain thinking, and I can't afford the expensive ammo while doing that.

When you put the cheap stuff up against the expensive stuff through a quality firearm and with a bad ass shooter behind it, the difference is _usually_ measured behind a decimal point. That's a big deal.... if you're a sniper.

If all I did was stand in one spot and measure my group at exactly 15 yards... maybe it would be worth my time to spend on the crazy good stuff. I don't see how it helps, unless you're a competitive shooter or a military sniper. If somebody broke into my house tonight, I wouldn't be dropping into prone and going for the head shot. I'll be protecting my family, thinking about my neighbors and putting as many damn rounds into his chest as I possibly can. I'm not worried if a few of those are two inches to the right. 

Firing more ammo, ammo that you can afford, is way more effective than always using the best.


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## bad (Feb 22, 2014)

Moonbeam, might consider rollin your own. 

Some shooters are so bad that that the ammo isn't that much of the problem. Surely that isn't you or me though.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

bad said:


> Some shooters are so bad that that the ammo isn't that much of the problem. Surely that isn't you or me though.


Good call. This is why my targets are 3 feet wide.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

bad said:


> Moonbeam, might consider rollin your own.
> 
> Some shooters are so bad that that the ammo isn't that much of the problem. Surely that isn't you or me though.


LOL, Moonbeam. Sounds like someone was in the Corps...


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

That's why I reload. I'm not wasting my cash on "cheap" ammo when I can load top shelf custom ammo even cheaper.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Chipper said:


> That's why I reload. I'm not wasting my cash on "cheap" ammo when I can load top shelf custom ammo even cheaper.


Me too. About the only new ammo I buy is .22 lr and .22 mag.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Nothing really wrong with modern steel case ammo if the price is right. short to mid range man killing is not sniper shooting 3 Moa is well with in the tolerance.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Don't fear the nail or the tack, it's the man/person attacking you that you need to stop. Aim/shoot to stop that threat. If your being attacked by a real sniper, you will probably be dead before you get a shot off any how, if the sniper is any good. If they are that far away that you need sniper accuracy, most times they aren't a real threat til they get close enough that you can accurately shoot back too. To me that would be in the 300 yard and under range and most centerfire rifles and you should be good at that range.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Most marines I met did a pretty good job of putting rounds where they needed to go.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Most marines I met did a pretty good job of putting rounds where they needed to go.


Very true. I just caught when he said "Moonbeam" that's what we started calling flashlights in bootcamp.


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Most modern weapons and ammo are more accurate than the person shooting them. Even the el' cheapo ammo. I know we all like to think that we're tack driving son of a gun's, but the reality is that we aren't. Minute of man is good enough for most of us. Out to 400 meters, I can still ruin your day, but truth be told, it's probably not ever going to happen at that range in the real world we live in.

If you want to print really little holes in paper, by all means take up benchrest shooting. If you want to be able to put holes in someone attacking you, then you need to forget precise shot placement. There is a reason that center mass shooting is taught, it's because it gives you the greatest latitude of error when shooting in dynamic situations. Yeah, I know that spec ops guys shoot to a higher standard, but they also train to that standard a lot more frequently than we do.

Really bad ammo is the stuff that FTF or constantly jams. In most cases if it goes bang and doesn't cause any weapon malfunctions, it's accurate enough to train with. If you can train more for the money saved with cheaper ammo, you are probably going to be ahead of the game when it comes down to it. And if you have the occasional misfire, or malfunction, that's also a good training opportunity.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I have seen that Bushmasters have VERY sorry groups with Russian Ammo (well not seen as I don't own one but have heard, wink wink)

IMO steel cased .223 is a nighmare for accuracy but what do you expect for the price you pay

I would suggest getting PMC .223 55grain FMJ and in most modern AR's... I have heard.. that round will shoot really gooder

this is all speculation as I don't own an AR but I have read a lot about them, wink wink.

IMO Russian ammo sucks unless you are below 100 meters and then WTF you are golden!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

If your are shooting 223 55gr in a 1 in 7 16 inch your group will not be as good anyway. no madder the brand


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