# Saying no to unprepared families



## Montana Jack

After reading One Second After and Lights Out, I've been wondering how I'd handle visitors from inside and outside the neighborhood who come to everyone's door with outstretched hands after a grid down situation.

I'd have no problem turning away able-bodied adults and backing it up with my 870 if need be. And I know that once you give a can of food to even a family of good, deserving people, either that family will be back every day thereafter, or worse yet, word is going to get around you have more. Remember the American Blackout youtube movie? Still, I can't stand to see hungry kids.

We're very close with two or three neighbors and would be happy to share with them. Problem is, none of them are preppers. I think they know I am because of old Y2K preps and that I'm the only one on the block with a generator.

Maybe I just tell everyone we got nothing. Or maybe I display a small decoy stash of food, so that's all anyone thinks we have.

It might be different if we lived in a protected community with other like-minded, armed families where we could afford to give an occasional gift of charity food or water, but we're one family in the suburbs, and not likely to bug out.

Anybody ever given this some thought? What did you come up with?


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## AquaHull

What if who was asking for help was Gabriel or Michael? Or their boss?


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## The Bear Of Canada

I also just finished One Second After. It would be easier to survive with a group of people you trust.


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## inceptor

It will be a hard decision. You can't help everyone and take care of your family. I am prepping for some charity but I'm not responsible for my entire area. 

1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. NIV


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## jro1

Montana Jack said:


> After reading One Second After and Lights Out, I've been wondering how I'd handle visitors from inside and outside the neighborhood who come to everyone's door with outstretched hands after a grid down situation.
> 
> I'd have no problem turning away able-bodied adults and backing it up with my 870 if need be. And I know that once you give a can of food to even a family of good, deserving people, either that family will be back every day thereafter, or worse yet, word is going to get around you have more. Remember the American Blackout youtube movie? Still, I can't stand to see hungry kids.
> 
> We're very close with two or three neighbors and would be happy to share with them. Problem is, none of them are preppers. I think they know I am because of old Y2K preps and that I'm the only one on the block with a generator.
> 
> Maybe I just tell everyone we got nothing. Or maybe I display a small decoy stash of food, so that's all anyone thinks we have.
> 
> It might be different if we lived in a protected community with other like-minded, armed families where we could afford to give an occasional gift of charity food or water, but we're one family in the suburbs, and not likely to bug out.
> 
> Anybody ever given this some thought? What did you come up with?


Read "Patriots" By James W Rawles. He seemed to have it figured out pretty good in his books!?


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## Ripon

Every case gets it's own review. How one approaches. What they say. Can they offer a skill. I'm not likely to hand out anything to anyone but if they'll give me there labor I'd be inclined to shelter and feed them as I probably can. At least that way I don't expect them to leave and come back for more hand outs. Getting to my area is such a task that it's an accomplishment and thus I have to consider those who make it as viable and capable.


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## Notsoyoung

AquaHull said:


> What if who was asking for help was Gabriel or Michael? Or their boss?


They wouldn't need my help. If you hand out all of your food to others you can all starve together.


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## HuntingHawk

I do have specific stores just for helping others. But I decide who gets any. I've coffee cans with packs of ramen noodles. Also coffee containers with a bag of rice & a bag of mixed pinto & great northern beans.


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## inceptor

Notsoyoung said:


> They wouldn't need my help. If you hand out all of your food to others you can all starve together.


That's fine but there is also this:

Matthew 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'


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## tango

Help others that you deem worthy.
Do not help those you don't.
You and yours must be the first priority.


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## Notsoyoung

inceptor said:


> That's fine but there is also this:
> 
> Matthew 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
> 
> 40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'


Then you can all starve together. If you have whole warehouses of food stored it won't be enough, so why bother? Don't store up anything and rely on the generosity of others or the government. Good luck with that. Too bad that self absorbed jerk NOAH didn't make his boat bigger, or open the door for his neighbors. Nope, he just let them drown.


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## Maine-Marine

At my home, Anybody that knocks and ask will be provided a meal or something to eat...There will be no worthiness test...

We are told to help those in need and those that ask... I will be the good Samaritan....


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## Cheesewiz

I'm sorry but I've watched them do nothing and tell me about it ....water if I have it and noodles maybe . Give a man a fish he eats for a day , teach a man how to fish it's a Lifetime . I'm not talking about chicken of the sea here either . Give me , give me , give me while all They do is gamble and eat out all the time ..... I'm not talking about mcdonalds either . I will be out numbered . It won't be pretty, but then I have planned for that .


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## Maine-Marine

Notsoyoung said:


> Then you can all starve together. If you have whole warehouses of food stored it won't be enough, so why bother? Don't store up anything and rely on the generosity of others or the government. Good luck with that. Too bad that self absorbed jerk NOAH didn't make his boat bigger, or open the door for his neighbors. Nope, he just let them drown.


Your Noah comment is interesting...it shows a level of biblical illiteracy I have not seen in many years


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## Maine-Marine

I think if you are in an area that will bring people to your door everyday...you have picked the wrong area to try and survive. 

Some of you are making it sound like there will be hordes of welfare zombies at your door every morning and you are going to have to defend the vast stores of peanut butter and jelly you have put away... If your fear is you will be over whelmed or if you fear unprepared folks showing up every day...you need to move...


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## Pir8fan

They bring some asset to the table or they get turned away. My family takes priority over someone that hasn't bothered to plan for their family. My tax dollars have supported dead weight for so long that if it's my choice the answer will be NO!


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## bad

Jack I hope you don't live on a block (In a city in Montana), you need to move.


Montana Jack said:


> ..........snip.........
> I think they know I am because of old Y2K preps and that I'm the only one on the block with a generator.
> ............snip...........


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## Notsoyoung

Maine-Marine said:


> Your Noah comment is interesting...it shows a level of biblical illiteracy I have not seen in many years


Really? How so? Did he open the door to the Ark for any of his neighbors? NO. He took care of his family. Oh, I forgot, his neighbors were all unrighteous. Like I said, you and your family can starve with all of the people who would come to your house for food. Hope you have a really big warehouse because the word will get around real quick that you have food and then not only will you have folks coming to beg for food, you are also going to have them showing up to TAKE whatever you have. Good luck with that.


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## Cheesewiz

tango said:


> Help others that you deem worthy.
> Do not help those you don't.
> You and yours must be the first priority.


:grin:


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## Maine-Marine

Notsoyoung said:


> Really? How so? Did he open the door to the Ark for any of his neighbors? NO. He took care of his family. Oh, I forgot, his neighbors were all unrighteous. Like I said, you and your family can starve with all of the people who would come to your house for food. Hope you have a really big warehouse because the word will get around real quick that you have food and then not only will you have folks coming to beg for food, you are also going to have them showing up to TAKE whatever you have. Good luck with that.


Who closed the door of the ark?...Do you think Noah could have opened it?

Where I live there will not be a lot of people showing up... And it is cold enough here that come nov or dec I am thinking there will not be a lot of unprepared welfare zombies...


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## inceptor

Notsoyoung said:


> Really? How so? Did he open the door to the Ark for any of his neighbors? NO. He took care of his family. Oh, I forgot, his neighbors were all unrighteous. Like I said, you and your family can starve with all of the people who would come to your house for food. Hope you have a really big warehouse because the word will get around real quick that you have food and then not only will you have folks coming to beg for food, you are also going to have them showing up to TAKE whatever you have. Good luck with that.


Darn right, no one EVER helped you so why should you help others? When the shtf, you will be totally prepared, won't need anything from anyone. If you do, you'll just take whatever you need. Good attitude. You should do well.


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## Charles Martel

My preps are for my wife, my little girl, and myself. I cannot be responsible for others lack of foresight or preparation. 

Fortunately, most of my neighbors have as many preps as I do. One of the many positives of living in Utah.


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## Cheesewiz

How did you know all I have is peanut butter and jelly ? Man a real clairvoyant . I don't call them zombies yet but the takers exceed the makers . If I could only live in the hills or a huge ranch a farm maybe .....I will start packing tonight. I live in one of the harshest environments in the country, and I think I will be ok, I've managed for 17 years . In the summer people might last a day if they are lucky, and freeze to death 30 minutes from my door in the winter . Psssst I know where the water is , but don't tell the other 2 million people ......deer,elk,sheep, fish,rabbits,snakes,and plenty of coyotes . To me the real survivors will come from the mega cities . Now that will be surviving. All us stupid city folk have plenty of jelly...


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## Maine-Marine

In My Humble Opinion.....A person's response to this topic shows a great deal about their Faith, Morality, Values, and General Character...


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## Notsoyoung

inceptor said:


> Darn right, no one EVER helped you so why should you help others? When the shtf, you will be totally prepared, won't need anything from anyone. If you do, you'll just take whatever you need. Good attitude. You should do well.


I am pointing out how proclaiming that you will feed EVERYONE who comes to your door will not work. Not helping some is not helping everyone, but I WILL be discriminating as to if, who, and how much I will help someone. If you want to feed everyone, more power to you and good luck with that. As for myself, I will help as many as I can if they deserve it and it doesn't endanger my family. Who decides who deserves it and whether or not it endangers my family? I DO. Frankly I think my attitude is much more realistic then yours.


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## Notsoyoung

Maine-Marine said:


> In My Humble Opinion.....A person's response to this topic shows a great deal about their Faith, Morality, Values, and General Character...


You forgot to add intelligence and whether or not they are in touch with reality.


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## Maine-Marine

Notsoyoung said:


> I am pointing out how proclaiming that you will feed EVERYONE who comes to your door will not work. Not helping some is not helping everyone, but I WILL be discriminating as to if, who, and how much I will help someone. If you want to feed everyone, more power to you and good luck with that. As for myself, I will help as many as I can if they deserve it and it doesn't endanger my family. Who decides who deserves it and whether or not it endangers my family? I DO. Frankly I think my attitude is much more realistic then yours.


How much time are you going to spend deciding " if they deserve" are you going to have a questionnaire or go by looks.

I do have a large amount of peanut butter and the ability to make lots of bread...so that is what we will use to feed folks... but again..i live off the beaten path... on a busy day maybe a handful of cars pass my house...those are all folks that have place up here... I have seen several times in winter where my tracks are the only ones on the road...we get plowed out last and sometimes not for days...

No Kidding... last year when our youngest was due.. my wife was scheduled for delivery...we had a bad storm coming in and she called the plow folks and said..we have to be at the hospital tomorrow by 9 am can we make sure we get plowed out... and they came by the house at about 6 am...

So I speak only for myself and my faith and my location... ANYBODY that stops by here will get a meal


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## Maine-Marine

Notsoyoung said:


> You forgot to add intelligence and whether or not they are in touch with reality.


As mentioned...my location..."reality" is much different then yours....you may well have hordes of welfare zombies beating at your door... i will not


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## Notsoyoung

Maine-Marine said:


> As mentioned...my location..."reality" is much different then yours....you may well have hordes of welfare zombies beating at your door... i will not


Then why question anyone's faith, morality, values, or general character? As for whether how much time I will spend deciding if they "deserve" , whether or not I have a questionnaire or go by their looks it MY decision. One thing that WILL constantly be in my mind will be if the people will be a danger to me, my family, or members of the group I am with, and if feeding strangers will endanger them. If you find that a character flaw, or a lack of values, or lack of morality, so be it.


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## Maine-Marine

Notsoyoung said:


> Then why question anyone's faith, morality, values, or general character? As for whether how much time I will spend deciding if they "deserve" , whether or not I have a questionnaire or go by their looks it MY decision. One thing that WILL constantly be in my mind will be if the people will be a danger to me, my family, or members of the group I am with, and if feeding strangers will endanger them. If you find that a character flaw, or a lack of values, or lack of morality, so be it.


I did not question your faith, morality, etc...i was saying your statements about what you would do are (IMHO) a good indicator... notice (IMHO)...


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## Slippy

I say a prayer every time I strap on my carry weapon, "Please God, I pray that I don't have to use this weapon today. But if I do, please God, let my aim be true."

I also pray that my faith will determine if I turn around, kill or help those who might come.


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## bennettvm

It depends on who they are and what they can offer. What are their skills? If one of them was a doctor - I might be more open to sharing something. Otherwise, no one is welcome at my house.


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## Notsoyoung

Maine-Marine said:


> I did not question your faith, morality, etc...i was saying your statements about what you would do are (IMHO) a good indicator... notice (IMHO)...


So just is the difference between "IMHO" and not questioning? When you say in your opinion you are questioning. As for my statements as to what I would do, I believe that I said that I would not feed EVERYONE, only some. I THINK that it is IMMORAL, and shows a lack of CHARACTER to purposely risk your wife and family.


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## inceptor

Notsoyoung said:


> I am pointing out how proclaiming that you will feed EVERYONE who comes to your door will not work. Not helping some is not helping everyone, but I WILL be discriminating as to if, who, and how much I will help someone. If you want to feed everyone, more power to you and good luck with that. As for myself, I will help as many as I can if they deserve it and it doesn't endanger my family. Who decides who deserves it and whether or not it endangers my family? I DO. Frankly I think my attitude is much more realistic then yours.


If you read my previous posts, you will find we are in complete agreement here. I never said I would feed everyone. My understanding of what you posted earlier is you intended to help no one. If I misunderstand, my apology.


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## Cheesewiz

I think all of us would like to help everyone but people are very very diff in every place. Some people could not even think of NOT helping their neighbor or anyone in need. With that said it is unrealistic to many of us . I can positively say people close to me would just TAKE what they need by force , and no I don't live in the ghetto, pretty expensive homes but it's the society in place now . No it's not the same everyplace . If it really came down to it , here it's my last jelly finger........ don't mistake my generosity for weaknesses


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## shotlady

I have 22 million neighbors. 60% are on welfare. id say maybe 10% are preppers. I don't know... id vote no. in the house here I only have 1 month. my preps for 1 yr are elsewhere at my bugout location. what do you think the percentage of preppers is??
I have to vote no on proposition "mooch" in my area.


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## Maine-Marine

Notsoyoung said:


> So just is the difference between "IMHO" and not questioning? When you say in your opinion you are questioning. As for my statements as to what I would do, I believe that I said that I would not feed EVERYONE, only some. I THINK that it is IMMORAL, and shows a lack of CHARACTER to purposely risk your wife and family.


I do not have to question your morality or character....I have already heard it...just as you will decide who you help and who you do not help..I get to judge how I view people. (MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.) I know you will refuse to share what you have because you are scared that you will run out and you are willing to allow kids and babies to starve because they have nothing to offer you. If there is no benefit to you - you are not going to lift a hand to help...

I will not send a person away hungry...I may only feed them a sandwich or give them bread and honey..but I will feed ANYBODY that comes to my door... ANYBODY...

I would agree that "to purposely risk your wife and family" would be immoral and wrong..however...feeding people is not risking them.... I could argue that NOT feeding people is creating a class of people that will view you as a person that is not friendly and who has lots of stuff that needs to be shared..

See if people come back to my place..they will come back to ask for another PB&J sandwich
If people come back to your place..they will be armed and know they will need to TAKE by Force...


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## Maine-Marine

shotlady said:


> I have 22 million neighbors. 60% are on welfare. id say maybe 10% are preppers. I don't know... id vote no. in the house here I only have 1 month. my preps for 1 yr are elsewhere at my bugout location. what do you think the percentage of preppers is??
> I have to vote no on proposition "mooch" in my area.


I hope your bugout location is off the beaten path and you are ready to be self sufficient growing your own grains, veggies and meat...


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## inceptor

Maine-Marine said:


> I will not send a person away hungry...I may only feed them a sandwich or give them bread and honey..but I will feed ANYBODY that comes to my door... ANYBODY...
> 
> I would agree that "to purposely risk your wife and family" would be immoral and wrong..however...feeding people is not risking them.... I could argue that NOT feeding people is creating a class of people that will view you as a person that is not friendly and who has lots of stuff that needs to be shared..
> 
> See if people come back to my place..they will come back to ask for another PB&J sandwich
> If people come back to your place..they will be armed and know they will need to TAKE by Force...


Be careful on this. People may do this for recon. You have marine in your handle so you should understand this. Being Christian I do believe in charity. In the same respect one must be circumspect. Otherwise you put your family at risk.

I know it's a work of fiction and someone mentioned reading Amazon.com: Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse eBook: James Wesley Rawles: Books Rawles had an interesting way to deal with this issue. I thought it was a good idea. It's a decent read and worth checking out.


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## pheniox17

on topic, shit has hit the fan, lets use the overly popular emp attack

will my family be fed, yep 

I have some friends that have put 2 and 2 together and worked out I prep, would I feed them?? **** yea, why?? i know they are sheep, and easy to organize and manipulate if it happens, what dose this family offer?? they have kids, but the "man" is a Mr. fabricate, and able to reinforce defences, the woman, well a baby sitter, their worth to me, to give me the extra numbers and security, and it costs a little food 

to offering strangers food, I don't believe I will have too many people seek me out, due to location... and if they did, there is always the red cross.. as it's really not my problem...


to other responses on this topic, trade/means test sound like grate ideas, I don't agree with blindly helping others when the shtf as they don't care about you or will they ever care about you.. the sheep will see you as a food bank, and people can't keep there mouth shut


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## Maine-Marine

inceptor said:


> Be careful on this. People may do this for recon. You have marine in your handle so you should understand this. Being Christian I do believe in charity. In the same respect one must be circumspect. Otherwise you put your family at risk.
> 
> I know it's a work of fiction and someone mentioned reading Amazon.com: Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse eBook: James Wesley Rawles: Books Rawles had an interesting way to deal with this issue. I thought it was a good idea. It's a decent read and worth checking out.


Read it...


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## inceptor

Maine-Marine said:


> Read it...


Your thought on this?


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## Maine-Marine

pheniox17 said:


> I don't agree with blindly helping others when the shtf as they don't care about you or will they ever care about you.. the sheep will see you as a food bank, and people can't keep there mouth shut


I do not care if people care about me... When I have pulled a few extra dollars out to cover bread and milk for the young mother in front on me, or stopped to help a family in a broken down car, or stopped to help at an accident...I have never thought to myself "do these people care about me".

I have and will help people based on the fact this world and this life is just a short journey before I get to be with my King...I will take care of my family because to not do so would make me worse then a heathen... I will not however allow a fear of hungry or even death to stop me from feeding those in need... I would rather skip a meal then turn away a young mother with kids...

I guess it all depends on where our heart is at and what we view as right


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## Ripon

I'd say you'd be lucky to find 2 or 3% reasonably prepped. Maybe a few more less so...the Mormons there.



shotlady said:


> I have 22 million neighbors. 60% are on welfare. id say maybe 10% are preppers. I don't know... id vote no. in the house here I only have 1 month. my preps for 1 yr are elsewhere at my bugout location. what do you think the percentage of preppers is??
> I have to vote no on proposition "mooch" in my area.


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## shotlady

Maine-Marine said:


> I hope your bugout location is off the beaten path and you are ready to be self sufficient growing your own grains, veggies and meat...


its 58 miles away in the angeles nat forest. people wont wonder by. there is a working garden and farm. its my friends house.


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## inceptor

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not care if people care about me... When I have pulled a few extra dollars out to cover bread and milk for the young mother in front on me, or stopped to help a family in a broken down car, or stopped to help at an accident...I have never thought to myself "do these people care about me".
> 
> I have and will help people based on the fact this world and this life is just a short journey before I get to be with my King...I will take care of my family because to not do so would make me worse then a heathen... I will not however allow a fear of hungry or even death to stop me from feeding those in need... I would rather skip a meal then turn away a young mother with kids...
> 
> I guess it all depends on where our heart is at and what we view as right


I quit worrying about what others thought of me a long time ago. You don't like me, move along. I ain't got time for it.

I am a firm believer in helping when and where I can. I do enjoy helping others. I only do it because it's the right thing to do and for no other reason.


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## Inor

We put back some foods expressly for giving away to needy neighbors etc. No crisis lasts forever and when it is over, I intend to start commerce with those left. That will be a whole lot easier if they have not starved to death first.


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## pheniox17

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not care if people care about me... When I have pulled a few extra dollars out to cover bread and milk for the young mother in front on me, or stopped to help a family in a broken down car, or stopped to help at an accident...I have never thought to myself "do these people care about me".
> 
> I have and will help people based on the fact this world and this life is just a short journey before I get to be with my King...I will take care of my family because to not do so would make me worse then a heathen... I will not however allow a fear of hungry or even death to stop me from feeding those in need... I would rather skip a meal then turn away a young mother with kids...
> 
> I guess it all depends on where our heart is at and what we view as right


pre shtf I 100% agree with helping others

during and post shtf, it has to be my family first!! 
there is a few neighbors I will take in as they will be pushing to adapt to survive

that's as far as my charity will go, we all have been screaming be prepared for generations, it's not our fault they don't listen and adopt the government will help us attitude.. so let the government help them


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## ekim

Just for the hell of it, look how much America alone has given to the poor in this country and overseas. How much has been improved by what America gives. The number of poor and those seeking help is going up faster than those whom are working to provide. If someone has made it to your door asking for a handout just think about how much they walked past to get to you because it's easier for them. If they are that ignorant that they can' won't provide for themselves and they're own, what do they offer to you if you help them but more help the next day. As for me I will be VERY selective as to whom I would help and it would only be if they could offer something for the betterment of all to do so!


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## Maine-Marine

ekim said:


> As for me I will be VERY selective as to whom I would help and it would only be if they could offer something for the betterment of all to do so!


And these people will be required to what...take a written test, answer 20 questions, have a prepper license....

So you are saying you are going to have extra food but it will only be for those you view as worthy or assistance.

What will meet your requirements... doctor, nurse, hunter, mechanic, wine maker, cheese maker, soldier,?????

I am guessing a single mother with 2 children will have no worth...What about the single dad with a child with downs syndrome? 
Old Grandmother, 85 year old veteran, retired math teacher??

I think I would rather obey God...and not Play God.........


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## jro1

my two cents!


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## ekim

Maine-Marine said:


> And these people will be required to what...take a written test, answer 20 questions, have a prepper license....
> 
> So you are saying you are going to have extra food but it will only be for those you view as worthy or assistance.
> 
> What will meet your requirements... doctor, nurse, hunter, mechanic, wine maker, cheese maker, soldier,?????
> 
> I am guessing a single mother with 2 children will have no worth...What about the single dad with a child with downs syndrome?
> Old Grandmother, 85 year old veteran, retired math teacher??
> 
> I think I would rather obey God...and not Play God.........


You can choose to starve/die any way your heart desires, if you playing God and being the savior to all is your thing, then go for it!


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## Maine-Marine

ekim said:


> ..................


You failed to answer the questions... how do you decide who you will help and who you will decide are unworthy of life??? You made the claim you will select who you will help... how do you do that..written test, interview, ????


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## inceptor

ekim said:


> You can choose to starve/die any way your heart desires, if you playing God and being the savior to all is your thing, then go for it!


That's not playing God, it's following God's word. I plan to do what I can, when i can but still keep my family safe.


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## pheniox17

I'm guessing that you are out to pick opinions of the topic apart if it doesn't agree with your agenda?? 

I'm sorry to say, we don't have the millions of dollars to prepare for the town or city, or have the resources to provide security to such a population

I'm all for selectively helping others, even the single mum or the single dad with a down syndrome kid they maybe able to help you and your family, and more likely than the drug ****ed mooch that's just going to abuse you and use you till your weak and stab you in the back the first chance they get....

your risk to take


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## jro1

"Saying no to unprepared families"

It was a simple Yes, or No! I don't think it's an arduous question, Why!, is irrelevant, That is between you and God!


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## Maine-Marine

pheniox17 said:


> I'm guessing that you are out to pick opinions of the topic apart if it doesn't agree with your agenda??
> 
> I'm sorry to say, we don't have the millions of dollars to prepare for the town or city, or have the resources to provide security to such a population
> 
> I'm all for selectively helping others, even the single mum or the single dad with a down syndrome kid they maybe able to help you and your family, and more likely than the drug ****ed mooch that's just going to abuse you and use you till your weak and stab you in the back the first chance they get....
> 
> your risk to take


If a person has an opinion that is different then mine...of course I am going to argue my opinion and debate against theirs...If I was not going to stand up for my ideals and my faith in what I believe -- I would change what I believe...

I am not going to HATE on you if you disagree with me...I am just going to state what I believe and also ask you to explain your side of things...

I keep hearing people talking about how they will decide who they will help..as if that will protect them from the DRUG MOOCH... Unless you are off the beaten trail...people are going to see that you are helping some and not helping others...they will also notice that you are not standing in the government food line and that you are not losing weight, and that you have trash.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Montana Jack said:


> Anybody ever given this some thought? What did you come up with?


Here was the original question.....


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## Montana Rancher

re a troll

This is the last part of a really good post that called the last poster a troll

But "gasp" it was interrupted and the post didn't get updated


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## Montana Rancher

Montana Rancher said:


> re a troll
> 
> This is the last part of a really good post that called the last poster a troll
> 
> But "gasp" it was interrupted and the post didn't get updated


I've done a lot of posting and have suspected government intervention but this is the first time the post was slammed down before I could actually post it


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## Maine-Marine

Montana Rancher said:


> re a troll
> 
> This is the last part of a really good post that called the last poster a troll
> 
> But "gasp" it was interrupted and the post didn't get updated


You think I am a troll... ??? Based on...????


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## jro1

Montana Rancher said:


> I've done a lot of posting and have suspected government intervention but this is the first time the post was slammed down before I could actually post it


the moderators must not have agreed to your post unfortunately!


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## Cheesewiz

You can't help someone who won't and refuse to help themselves ......it's human nature. We have been giving AID to the whole world and it got us where ? You may feed them once twice, three, four times then more come, more want and need . It's a conundrum . Now you don't have any more but they need more.......it is a true circle . What's really good is you can do what ever you want . It's your choice  I will deal with mine and
I can live with my decision . The good question is what am I going to do with all this stuff when I die ......lol


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## Inor

Maine-Marine said:


> You think I am a troll... ??? Based on...????


Maine-Marine -

The Rancher is damn good people and a good friend here. But he suffers from an excess of personality, as do I. It is kind of an acceptance ritual here. If you have not been cussed out or humiliated by Rancher, you are not fully a member yet.  Take solace in the fact that you got it on the first or second day. It took me a couple weeks.  Welcome.


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## Maine-Marine

Feed them do not feed them... THEY are going to see
you are not out and about looking for food
you have trash
you have SMELLS coming from your house
you are not losing weight

unless you are off the beaten path


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## Montana Rancher

Montana Jack said:


> After reading One Second After and Lights Out, I've been wondering how I'd handle visitors from inside and outside the neighborhood who come to everyone's door with outstretched hands after a grid down situation.
> 
> I'd have no problem turning away able-bodied adults and backing it up with my 870 if need be. And I know that once you give a can of food to even a family of good, deserving people, either that family will be back every day thereafter, or worse yet, word is going to get around you have more. Remember the American Blackout youtube movie? Still, I can't stand to see hungry kids.
> 
> We're very close with two or three neighbors and would be happy to share with them. Problem is, none of them are preppers. I think they know I am because of old Y2K preps and that I'm the only one on the block with a generator.
> 
> Maybe I just tell everyone we got nothing. Or maybe I display a small decoy stash of food, so that's all anyone thinks we have.
> 
> It might be different if we lived in a protected community with other like-minded, armed families where we could afford to give an occasional gift of charity food or water, but we're one family in the suburbs, and not likely to bug out.
> 
> Anybody ever given this some thought? What did you come up with?


Great question, and I have an easy answer for my are

I live very rural, about 60 people in a square mile around me.

My thought is I will share all I have for everyone that will share with me as well.

There is a lot about "sharing" that people don't understand, it includes security, gathering, cooperation, security (oh I said that already) labor, good will, security.

I am blessed that I live in an area that produces more food and energy than it consumes, truthfully if that wasn't the case I would have already moved, so what is your excuse

My plan is to feed everyone that come through my area until I cannot,

If I die of hunger then my life will be lived fulfilled, if GOD makes it so I can raise enough and feed enough people that HIS will is fulfilled, then I look at that as a ROYAL FLUSH

This is all going down as was written in the bible, keep in mind not updated since the year... ZERO

At worst I will die with the rest of my neighbors several months after we should have, and when that happens I believe I will walk into glory with my head held high


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## Seneca

Unless you are off the beaten path? Is that your disclaimer?

You are off the beaten path and person shows up and you feed them, two days later they show up and you feed them again, a few days after that they show up with a friend and you feed them and their friend. A week after that you feed them their friend and their new friends. 

My question is there a point at which you would say no? Or do you continue feeding an increasing number of people? you do know there are limits to what one can do. I think the egalitarian is a wonderful person that is terribly short sighted and the humanitarian is concerned more about self image than the affairs of humans.


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## ekim

Maine-Marine said:


> You failed to answer the questions... how do you decide who you will help and who you will decide are unworthy of life??? You made the claim you will select who you will help... how do you do that..written test, interview, ????


It wouldn't matter what I said about how I choose, it won't pass muster with you, but it will be my choice. I won't decide who is unworthy of life, just whom I may offer to help. You can call it following Gods will or what ever excuse you want to use, but if you can't feed/help them for ever you may have some unhappy folks in your group and you or others will still die. You don't like my view, fine, but I'm not trying to be the one to save all, you seem to be taking on that roll, just be prepared to fail, you won't have enough preps. All "Gods" people across the world have been trying what you think your going to do, hows it working out so far? The more they do the more people line up. We dis agree and neither of us will change the others mind but I'm not trying to change your mind, and I'm not putting myself on a pedestal, I just want to survive as best I can.


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## pheniox17

Maine-Marine said:


> If a person has an opinion that is different then mine...of course I am going to argue my opinion and debate against theirs...If I was not going to stand up for my ideals and my faith in what I believe -- I would change what I believe...
> 
> I am not going to HATE on you if you disagree with me...I am just going to state what I believe and also ask you to explain your side of things...
> 
> I keep hearing people talking about how they will decide who they will help..as if that will protect them from the DRUG MOOCH... Unless you are off the beaten trail...people are going to see that you are helping some and not helping others...they will also notice that you are not standing in the government food line and that you are not losing weight, and that you have trash.


all well and good debating a opinion, what more would you like me to clarify??

and people seeing me help others, I doubt they will, the "others I help" i plan to incorporate into my group but I don't expect miracles, nor to I plan on helping every tom.dick and Harry, as I said, if the sheep depend on the government to help, then go get government help, they have the resources to help the masses, and I'm strongly in support of this stance, to help (if my radio is receiving information) I would "rumor" them to the address and help direct those that listen

its not your responsibility to baby adults

and the lack of weight loss, there are ways to remove rubbish without bringing attention to yourself.. with the stress of the shtf environment I expect a lot of weight loss from myself, and other adults that "I'm supporting"

i already have a short list of neighbours I will help, as they are the "single mums" and the "old and useless" but combined with the resources available, will work if the "group" can stay stable


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## Montana Rancher

Seneca said:


> Unless you are off the beaten path? Is that your disclaimer?
> 
> You are off the beaten path and person shows up and you feed them, two days later they show up and you feed them again, a few days after that they show up with a friend and you feed them and their friend. A week after that you feed them their friend and their new friends.
> 
> My question is there a point at which you would say no? Or do you continue feeding an increasing number of people? you do know there are limits to what one can do. I think the egalitarian is a wonderful person that is terribly short sighted and the humanitarian is concerned more about self image than the affairs of humans.


This is the Preppers worst nightmare, but as I see my role though prayer and scripture I should feed everyone that shows up at my door. If I run out of stored foods we have a lot of pine trees and they are quite edible.

I guess the point is do I want to live in a world where I can shoot the next person up my driveway and live another day, and my answer is no.

But as I stated before I live in an area that is flush with resources, The small valley that I live in in Western Montana can feed 1 million people, which is the total population of my state. Also my State produces about 100 times more food than it consumes, so basically if you live in a city, your welcome.

I think when it really hits the fan, considering my location, we will do just fine and if I have to slaughter a horse to feed my neighbors, that is the price I will gladly pay.


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## HuntingHawk

KARMA. If you aren't willing to help others the time will come that you need help & ....


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## dsdmmat

No good deed goes unpunished.


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## Casie

Maine-Marine said:


> ...I have pulled a few extra dollars out to cover bread and milk for the young mother in front on me, or stopped to help a family in a broken down car, or stopped to help at an accident...I have never thought to myself "do these people care about me". ...I would rather skip a meal then turn away a young mother with kids... I guess it all depends on where our heart is at and what we view as right


MM! Where is your understanding and empathy now? You write as if you are the only person here who has ever generously given time, resources or support to a person in need! Of course every good decent man will want to feed and shelter every single needy individual that passes his door! Of course others here have paid for someone less fortunate's dinner or groceries! Goodness, maybe we just don't choose to speak about it.

The point is everyone here is NOT in a remote area. Not everyone here has the financial means to prep for their family AND hundreds of strangers. Instead of insulting, chastising and berating those here who are not as lucky as you, perhaps you could *now* show some kindness and support and say something like, "*I pray you and your family can be safe and nourished through any future danger. And if you see an opportunity to help another without sacrificing the lives of your own wife and children, I'm sure you will do your best.*"

I do not know what the future holds. But I live just 70 miles from those 2 Walmart stores that were completely emptied of ALL inventory in less than 3 hours after SNAP shoppers discovered their cards were no longer working. They called every family member and friend they knew and an unstoppable wave of angry looting people grew in an instant. Police on scene didn't even try to stop them because they were so completely out numbered.

But here you post reply after reply as if you are a better person than others here because you feel far removed from this danger. And you will happily be able to feed and shelter all who pass. How lucky (blessed) you are! How lucky (blessed) I am to be many miles away in the woods. But my heart goes out to any one of the very nice families that live much closer to those Walmarts. And I will never be so callous as to judge them if they are ever forced to make a terrible, impossible decision to close their doors, hide away, and put their own children first.

Lets pray we will never have to find out, my well meaning friend.


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## oldmurph58

Too many people where I live, and I think they might be taking and not asking for help. I dont know for sure what i will do. I'm not prepped to stack em up like cordwood, outside my door dead, I think id help who i could. Donnt know till it happens though. If they are bashing down the door the situation will change dramaticly. i mean armed thugs could send a woman with a baby knocking on doors, you help them, and a hour later said thugs attack.


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## PalmettoTree

I'm not too worried about a short term problem and I never prepped for Y2K because I knew that was a bunch of chicken little. The problem is going to be as preps run out how societies will attempt to organize. That is when there will be high stocks of guns and ammo supplies left but growing, hunting and harvesting will be necessary and dangerous.


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## inceptor

I think the truth is somewhere in between here for most of us. The govt has set up a whole lot of people who are so used to be taken care of. They will demand what they think is rightfully theirs. Just like what happened here, they will see it as their right. I still wonder if this wasn't a test.

Walmart to Get Stuck With Most of Food Stamp Shopping Spree - ABC News

So how do we decide who to help? I like Rawles solution but they were out in west BFE. So for those of us not in the same position as Montana Rancher, living in the burbs, how would you decide?

I know I will be helping many of my neighbors to get the ball rolling. Beyond that, I'm just not sure. I don't believe everyone is entitled. Just like the above situation, the entitled will immediately tell all their family and friends you are providing for them. When they think you haven't done enough, they will take what they think is rightfully theirs and you are toast.


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## nephilim

I would help my immediate neighbours where possible as in my little area we have a dr, firefighter, teachers, a mechanic, and they're worth keeping in a shtf situation. 

Also near to us is a butcher, a baker, and about a mile or two is a chicken farm and rapeseed farm.

Worth sticking around. Also I've spoken to my.neighbours and they're willing to start a growing club so we all grow stuff, put on a tarp or something in our road, and do some veg or fruit swaps. It might not be prepping in the proper sense but it gets them started!


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## Pir8fan

inceptor said:


> I quit worrying about what others thought of me a long time ago. You don't like me, move along. I ain't got time for it.


That attitude is one of the best things about having a few miles on me. The older I get, the less I care about what others, especially strangers, think about me. I'm happy and comfortable with who I am. If someone else isn't, that's their problem, not mine.


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## Notsoyoung

HuntingHawk said:


> KARMA. If you aren't willing to help others the time will come that you need help & ....


As have some others, you seem to be confusing helping some others with trying to help everyone. YOU CAN"T. The Federal government tried that when Johnson started the "Great Society" and welfare, and after trillions of dollars the number of poor as a percentage of our society has risen and we are working on the 3rd and 4th generation of people who have spent their entire lives having the government take care of them. If you give out food to everyone, you will have more then a few people camping out in your yard, doing NOTHING but waiting for the next meal time, and COMPLAINING about the type and amount of food they are getting. That is until someone decides that HE should be the one with ALL of the food and takes it from you and your family.

My plans incorporate helping other people but there is a limit. I can not afford nor have enough space to store enough food to feed 50 or 60 other people. My priority is to provide for my family, friends, and some neighbors. Even take in one or two additional families, but that is it. As a husband and a father it is my responsibility and duty to protect and provide for my family, and they come first. I live almost exactly between Chicago and St. Louis. I don't live near the main interstate between them, but there will still be way too many people roaming around for me to try to feed.

Frankly I think that anyone who accuses others of somehow being morally bankrupt for not being williing to feed everyone are just a bunch of pompous hypocritical jackasses. So you have helped someone already, big whoop, who hasn't? You have given money to help feed someone, yeah ditto. But if you are planning of giving away every thing that will help you survive if the SHTF, why wait? Why not start now? Sell your house, you can rent and give the rest of the money to the poor. Why waste money on a TV, computer, or other non-essentials? Give that money to the poor.

Don't do the talk if you can't do the walk.


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## Notsoyoung

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not have to question your morality or character....I have already heard it...just as you will decide who you help and who you do not help..I get to judge how I view people. (MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.) I know you will refuse to share what you have because you are scared that you will run out and you are willing to allow kids and babies to starve because they have nothing to offer you. If there is no benefit to you - you are not going to lift a hand to help...
> 
> I will not send a person away hungry...I may only feed them a sandwich or give them bread and honey..but I will feed ANYBODY that comes to my door... ANYBODY...
> 
> I would agree that "to purposely risk your wife and family" would be immoral and wrong..however...feeding people is not risking them.... I could argue that NOT feeding people is creating a class of people that will view you as a person that is not friendly and who has lots of stuff that needs to be shared..
> 
> See if people come back to my place..they will come back to ask for another PB&J sandwich
> If people come back to your place..they will be armed and know they will need to TAKE by Force...


You know NOTHING about me. Like many self promoting hypocritical faux pious jackassses, you make some asinine statement and believe that you are morally superior to everyone else. As for people coming back peacefully day after day for your PB&J sandwiches, you are also delusional and out of touch with reality. About the 2nd or 3rd day you feed them, if not at the first day, they are going to decide that THEY should be the ones saying who does and doesn't get fed. As for them coming back with arms to take my food, why would they risk getting shot by me when they can easily take it from someone like you, if in fact you actually do what you are saying, which I doubt. If you do, as your kids are starving to death because their father gave all of the food away, one of their great regrets will be that they are the offspring of an idiot.


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## ekim

I want to see how MR or his neighbors respond when even 500 to a 1000 people move into this great valley they live in and say give us what you have. How long will this safe haven last when all the game is either eaten or scared away. Who's going to farm all this land, provide seed and man power to plant and harvest those crops. Now think about the stupid possible idea that a million people could survive on this land. How many think the land would be usable after 6 months with that many people trying to survive. Never happen here though because your going to be fair. Don't we already have an asshole in the WH trying to push that kind of bull shit down people's throats, not going over to good I'd say. All you would be do gooders better hope your never called to the task you think your prepared for ever happens. Gonna be hard to survive with your head buried in the sand. Where do you think your going to go after those you tried to help come back for more help? Do you believe they will take your word for it that you have no more to give them!


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## Moonshinedave

inceptor said:


> I think the truth is somewhere in between here for most of us. *The govt has set up a whole lot of people who are so used to be taken care of. They will demand what they think is rightfully theirs.* Just like what happened here, they will see it as their right. I still wonder if this wasn't a test.
> 
> Walmart to Get Stuck With Most of Food Stamp Shopping Spree - ABC News
> 
> So how do we decide who to help? I like Rawles solution but they were out in west BFE. So for those of us not in the same position as Montana Rancher, living in the burbs, how would you decide?
> 
> I know I will be helping many of my neighbors to get the ball rolling. Beyond that, I'm just not sure. I don't believe everyone is entitled. Just like the above situation, the entitled will immediately tell all their family and friends you are providing for them. When they think you haven't done enough, they will take what they think is rightfully theirs and you are toast.


You hit the nail right on the head here, IMO, it isn't the man and wife next door asking for a can of soup to feed themselves, it's the hoards of people, whose life has always been the government giving them all they need to live. What happens when the government no longer is able or willing to supply handouts? 
Our government has created a sociality of welfare people, who don't work, or if they do, it "under the table" as not to interfere with their assistance. A lot of these are from generations of welfare people, they don't feel shame of taking handout, but like stated, feel entitled. If things get bad, and I pray they never do, it's these people that will be the concern, they won't be asking for food, they will be demanding it. 
But even The people not prepared and asking for food some may be willing to work for a meal, which might not be a bad thing, but a funny thing about humans, next day they need food again, then what? At what point do you tell them you've done all you are willing to do, and they need to move on? Where do you draw the line between, I'll do what I can, and I have a responsibility to my family first? These questions do not have easy answers, and it's something I have thought of many times, to be honest, I don't know for sure what I'll do, I hope I never have to find out.


----------



## ekim

Moonshinedave said:


> You hit the nail right on the head here, IMO, it isn't the man and wife next door asking for a can of soup to feed themselves, it's the hoards of people, whose life has always been the government giving them all they need to live. What happens when the government no longer is able or willing to supply handouts?
> Our government has created a sociality of welfare people, who don't work, or if they do, it "under the table" as not to interfere with their assistance. A lot of these are from generations of welfare people, they don't feel shame of taking handout, but like stated, feel entitled. If things get bad, and I pray they never do, it's these people that will be the concern, they won't be asking for food, they will be demanding it.
> But even The people not prepared and asking for food some may be willing to work for a meal, which might not be a bad thing, but a funny thing about humans, next day they need food again, then what? At what point do you tell them you've done all you are willing to do, and they need to move on? Where do you draw the line between, I'll do what I can, and I have a responsibility to my family first? These questions do not have easy answers, and it's something I have thought of many times, to be honest, I don't know for sure what I'll do, I hope I never have to find out.


You won't have a choice if it gets to that point, you will either say no and fight, you will become part of the help me crowd or be dead. There are no other options if people find you.


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## pheniox17

have to love topics like this, in one corner you have the guy that will give up everything to help others and quotes the bible that it's the morally right thing to do

in the other, you scratch my back, I scratch yours

the 3rd corner for this 4 way match its me and mine, anyone else f off

and the raining champion, it won't be a problem for me, so she'll be right mate


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## MrsInor

Dang, what an interesting thread. We have a good friend in Arizona, she has a small cattle ranch. Periodically she has a few illegals walking through her land. She feeds them sandwiches and gives them water and then calls the Border Patrol. I don't know if she would still feed them if the shtf. 

Inor noted that we do have some preps for feeding neighbors. Would I feed a stranger here in suburbia? Probably not. I would suggest to them to go to city hall where FEMA has a station. Probably a lie but it would get them out of the neighborhood. Most of our neighbors are sheep and therefore would happily follow our lead in gardening, etc. If you don't work, you don't eat. There were some suggestions here that if you take care of a few neighbors you have gained more in security and work.

As far as looking well fed and having food smells alerting possible "takers". Loose clothing (which I prefer anyway) will hide any weight loss. There are foods and ways of cooking that have little or no small. A covered pot in the sun oven has little odor. 

In any case I need a bacon break.


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## Pir8fan

inceptor said:


> I think the truth is somewhere in between here for most of us. The govt has set up a whole lot of people who are so used to be taken care of. They will demand what they think is rightfully theirs. Just like what happened here, they will see it as their right. I still wonder if this wasn't a test.
> 
> Walmart to Get Stuck With Most of Food Stamp Shopping Spree - ABC News
> 
> So how do we decide who to help? I like Rawles solution but they were out in west BFE. So for those of us not in the same position as Montana Rancher, living in the burbs, how would you decide?
> 
> I know I will be helping many of my neighbors to get the ball rolling. Beyond that, I'm just not sure. I don't believe everyone is entitled. Just like the above situation, the entitled will immediately tell all their family and friends you are providing for them. When they think you haven't done enough, they will take what they think is rightfully theirs and you are toast.


Exactly right. The government has done everything possible to demonize those who are prepared or successful in order to justify taking their assets. The government has created a whole class of people that believe they have a right to others' property simply because they want what others have. They've been trained to believe that they are owed what ever they want from whomever has what they want. To my way of thinking, in a SHTF situation cause by internal factors, these will be the same people that I will hold responsible for the chaos. No way will I share with them.


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## Charles Martel

For those passing moral judgement on those claiming they won't be handing out their hard-earned preps to others when SHTF, I refer you to the parable of the ten virgins in Mathew 25. In this story, ten virgins await a bridegroom well into the night. 5 of the virgins were wise and prepared extra oil for their lamps. 5 of the virgins were foolish and did not bring extra oil for their lamps. When it was announced the the bridegroom was coming, the virgins who had not brought extra oil asked the virgins who HAD brought extra oil if they could use some of theirs. The 5 wise virgins refused the foolish virgins and they alone were prepared for the bridegroom when he came. The 5 prepared virgins were permitted into the wedding feast, while the foolish virgins we're shut out.

I believe we are morally obligated to share if we have the means to do so. We are not obligated, however, to share with those who have not prepared. Especially if sharing means that those who depend on us will go without. I will not take food that is intended for my child and give it to someone else. I will not watch my little girl go hungry out of some misguided moral obligation to others. I will help others how and when I can, but my family is my first priority.

Judge if you will.


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## SARGE7402

What if it was you being turned away? Think about this for a minute. You're away from home 300 miles. And the SHTF. Sure you've got a few things with you that you carry every day, but what if you hadn't quite filled up the gas tank like you should have. or you took the BOB out of the car and forgot to put it back in?

Folks those you turn away could very easily be you or your loved ones. Like your kids on that field trip to DC. Or the wife visiting her mother.


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## ekim

SARGE7402 said:


> What if it was you being turned away? Think about this for a minute. You're away from home 300 miles. And the SHTF. Sure you've got a few things with you that you carry every day, but what if you hadn't quite filled up the gas tank like you should have. or you took the BOB out of the car and forgot to put it back in?
> 
> Folks those you turn away could very easily be you or your loved ones. Like your kids on that field trip to DC. Or the wife visiting her mother.


I don't think this post is about having a bad day going to the zoo or coming home from work after a long day and your car breaks down.


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## Charles Martel

SARGE7402 said:


> What if it was you being turned away? Think about this for a minute. You're away from home 300 miles. And the SHTF. Sure you've got a few things with you that you carry every day, but what if you hadn't quite filled up the gas tank like you should have. or you took the BOB out of the car and forgot to put it back in?
> 
> Folks those you turn away could very easily be you or your loved ones. Like your kids on that field trip to DC. Or the wife visiting her mother.


Like I said...we're all obligated to help others where we can. I won't help others to the detriment of my family, though. And helping someone get from point a to point z by giving them a bottle of water and a can of chicken for the road is a completely different thing than having unprepared individuals or groups show up
Hoping to be fed and sheltered long term.

I wouldn't expect others to feed and shelter my family to the detriment of theirs. And I would never expect a simple handout.


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## Notsoyoung

SARGE7402 said:


> What if it was you being turned away? Think about this for a minute. You're away from home 300 miles. And the SHTF. Sure you've got a few things with you that you carry every day, but what if you hadn't quite filled up the gas tank like you should have. or you took the BOB out of the car and forgot to put it back in?
> 
> Folks those you turn away could very easily be you or your loved ones. Like your kids on that field trip to DC. Or the wife visiting her mother.


YOU CAN NOT FEED EVERYONE. That is a FACT. Yes, it would be a terrible thing if it were my wife or one of my children. It would also be terrible if because I gave away all of my food because I tried to feed EVERYONE who comes by and I had to watch my wife and children starve to death if they weren't murdered by someone who I was trying to help decided that HE needed ALL of my food instead of a sandwich every now and then. If the SHTF for real there are going to be allot of people, many of whom will be good people who may be loved ones of some of the members on this forum, are going to die. All anyone can do is try to be prepared for it, and to provide for their families and friends. Unless you are as rich as Bill Gates, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES to provide for hundreds, if not thousands of people.

If you forgot to fill up your gas tank at the end of the day, or took out your bob bag out of the car and forgot to put it back in, YOU screwed YOURSELF, didn't you? I can and would help some, I would NOT even attempt to feed EVERYONE. IMO anyone who believes that they can are delusional.


----------



## Pir8fan

SARGE7402 said:


> What if it was you being turned away? Think about this for a minute. You're away from home 300 miles. And the SHTF. Sure you've got a few things with you that you carry every day, but what if you hadn't quite filled up the gas tank like you should have. or you took the BOB out of the car and forgot to put it back in?
> 
> Folks those you turn away could very easily be you or your loved ones. Like your kids on that field trip to DC. Or the wife visiting her mother.


The actual number of people more than a day or two walk away from home is a very small percentage of the population. Those people would deserve consideration. The ones that think I owe them something simply because they didn't prepare are the ones that get turned away. I'll not accept responsibility for their foolishness.


----------



## nephilim

Agree with Pir8fan here. Anyone more than 100 miles from home gets the consideration. 

In the UK you are never more than 70 miles from the coast so at worst you are 2 or 3 days hike from the coast. I would give a litre per day of water and some rations for the person to get to the coast and from there they're on their own. Reason being. At the coast you have thousands of protein giving life forms in the terms of fish, shrimp, limpets, muscles, clams, razerclams, and squid. Factor in we have no deadly seaweed in the UK so there is a form of carbs. 

I would also advise the person on edible flowers and growth for their trip so they can get some form of sustenance on the trip. If they come back, ever, they'll be turned away. I will help once and once only unless you are a proven asset such as experienced carpenter or experienced blacksmith or something along those lines.


----------



## paraquack

I realize I can't and won't take the food from my families table to feed someone I tried to enlighten. I too have give away food put away. It would be very hard for me to turn someone away, but I know they will be back in a day or two and probably with others. If I don't give to them at this point, I fear they would turn from "please give me food" into "give me or I take what you have." This is why I have been very tight lipped about preparing since I moved. Obviously if it were a short duration event, I could afford to give food to those less fortunate (another name for those too stupid to prepare). But what happens if I'm wrong about the expected duration? What happens if they become belligerent, or violent? It's easy to know what I would do, right now when nothing is happening. But when the SHTF, I'm not so sure.


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## Maine-Marine

Seneca said:


> Unless you are off the beaten path? Is that your disclaimer?
> 
> You are off the beaten path and person shows up and you feed them, two days later they show up and you feed them again, a few days after that they show up with a friend and you feed them and their friend. A week after that you feed them their friend and their new friends.
> 
> My question is there a point at which you would say no? Or do you continue feeding an increasing number of people? you do know there are limits to what one can do. I think the egalitarian is a wonderful person that is terribly short sighted and the humanitarian is concerned more about self image than the affairs of humans.


The limits are when I run out of food... Living off the beaten path is not a disclaimer ..it is a fact.. I live off the beaten path.. Some folks here talk as if there will be 100's of people daily knocking on their doors .... The reason I keep saying I live off the beaten path is so folks understand I an not concerned with the large groups of welfare zombies that will be going house to house


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## ordnance21xx

You should ask your self, can they help you in any way or do they have skills that you don't have then make the decision. However, there will be a time about 10 days or so after when they will try to take whatever they need. Be prepared the defend what's yours.

MOLON LABE


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## Maine-Marine

dsdmmat said:


> No good deed goes unpunished.


I was never punished for feeding that homeless person in Colorado, or fixing the flat tire in Maine, or giving money to the family In california... Si I guess your saying is disproved!


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## Maine-Marine

Notsoyoung said:


> You know NOTHING about me. Like many self promoting hypocritical faux pious jackassses, you make some asinine statement and believe that you are morally superior to everyone else. As for people coming back peacefully day after day for your PB&J sandwiches, you are also delusional and out of touch with reality. About the 2nd or 3rd day you feed them, if not at the first day, they are going to decide that THEY should be the ones saying who does and doesn't get fed. As for them coming back with arms to take my food, why would they risk getting shot by me when they can easily take it from someone like you, if in fact you actually do what you are saying, which I doubt. If you do, as your kids are starving to death because their father gave all of the food away, one of their great regrets will be that they are the offspring of an idiot.


I think you are confusing self promotion with Jesus Promotion...

Let me be very clear...I will feed people that ask (not those that demand with force) I will feed them not because they can offer me anything...I will feed them because I value Jesus more then Myself, My Family, My friends...

If a person desires to TAKE what I have with force...I feel I have every right and obligation to protect my family and will meet force with greater force.

I would like others to notice that your desire to lift yourself up and make me appear to be a bad person...even saying I would starve my kids... and your name calling goes to show your inability to express your thoughts in a honorable manner.

Make no mistake...I will give to all that ask...I may not give them all they ask for... but I will provide a meal and also suggest they seek help further down the road... If they come back the next day...I will give them the same thing....Where I am at, I do not see people coming back every day...it would be a waste of gas for a sandwich...

There is no honor in helping those that can repay you or offer a benefit to you...

For me it all comes down to Jesus...I am either going to surrender all or I should not call myself a follower of Jesus...

If I die, or my kids die, or my family dies..I would rather stand in front of my master with a clean heart. My wife already knows Jesus is more important then family...


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## Maine-Marine

Casie said:


> MM! Where is your understanding and empathy now? You write as if you are the only person here who has ever generously given time, resources or support to a person in need! Of course every good decent man will want to feed and shelter every single needy individual that passes his door! Of course others here have paid for someone less fortunate's dinner or groceries! Goodness, maybe we just don't choose to speak about it.
> 
> The point is everyone here is NOT in a remote area. Not everyone here has the financial means to prep for their family AND hundreds of strangers. Instead of insulting, chastising and berating those here who are not as lucky as you, perhaps you could *now* show some kindness and support and say something like, "*I pray you and your family can be safe and nourished through any future danger. And if you see an opportunity to help another without sacrificing the lives of your own wife and children, I'm sure you will do your best.*"
> 
> I do not know what the future holds. But I live just 70 miles from those 2 Walmart stores that were completely emptied of ALL inventory in less than 3 hours after SNAP shoppers discovered their cards were no longer working. They called every family member and friend they knew and an unstoppable wave of angry looting people grew in an instant. Police on scene didn't even try to stop them because they were so completely out numbered.
> 
> But here you post reply after reply as if you are a better person than others here because you feel far removed from this danger. And you will happily be able to feed and shelter all who pass. How lucky (blessed) you are! How lucky (blessed) I am to be many miles away in the woods. But my heart goes out to any one of the very nice families that live much closer to those Walmarts. And I will never be so callous as to judge them if they are ever forced to make a terrible, impossible decision to close their doors, hide away, and put their own children first.
> 
> Lets pray we will never have to find out, my well meaning friend.


I am not saying i will feed people because I am a GOOD person...I am saying I will do it because I am told to do it by somebody love Jesus....If a person is Not willing to be Obedient to their King..they need to find a new kingdom


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## Maine-Marine

Charles Martel said:


> For those passing moral judgement on those claiming they won't be handing out their hard-earned preps to others when SHTF, I refer you to the parable of the ten virgins in Mathew 25. In this story, ten virgins await a bridegroom well into the night. 5 of the virgins were wise and prepared extra oil for their lamps. 5 of the virgins were foolish and did not bring extra oil for their lamps. When it was announced the the bridegroom was coming, the virgins who had not brought extra oil asked the virgins who HAD brought extra oil if they could use some of theirs. The 5 wise virgins refused the foolish virgins and they alone were prepared for the bridegroom when he came. The 5 prepared virgins were permitted into the wedding feast, while the foolish virgins we're shut out.
> 
> I believe we are morally obligated to share if we have the means to do so. We are not obligated, however, to share with those who have not prepared. Especially if sharing means that those who depend on us will go without. I will not take food that is intended for my child and give it to someone else. I will not watch my little girl go hungry out of some misguided moral obligation to others. I will help others how and when I can, but my family is my first priority.
> 
> Judge if you will.


LOL...wow...The lesson here was not about sharing and the oil was not really oil.... I would suggest you pick up a good bible commentary before using this PARABLE to make a case for NOT SHARING...


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## jro1

We have a large sports complex where I live, It was a multimillion dollar facility that wasn't possible with out donations, it's a brick building, and engraved in the bricks are the names of those who contributed or donated, The ones I respected the most, were those who stayed anonymous on the brick wall!
I have more respect for those who don't say anything and keep to them selves, those who they have helped in their lifetime! Those are deeds done for in the name of Christ and and not for themselves or for anybody else to know about. keep your deeds anon and you won't look like douche! hey look at me, look at me, I gave this guy the shirt off my back!


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## Mish

MM, I'm not a religious person but you have inspired me. Your devotion to your religion is refreshing. I see way too many people that pick and choose when religion is convenient for them to follow. =)

If there is a "God" I believe he will see who the true believers are in their actions after the SHTF. Who will follow his teachings when they are presented with situations that challenge everything? Will you steal...kill?


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## Maine-Marine

jro1 said:


> We have a large sports complex where I live, It was a multimillion dollar facility that wasn't possible with out donations, it's a brick building, and engraved in the bricks are the names of those who contributed or donated, The ones I respected the most, were those who stayed anonymous on the brick wall!
> I have more respect for those who don't say anything and keep to them selves, those who they have helped in their lifetime! Those are deeds done for in the name of Christ and and not for themselves or for anybody else to know about. keep your deeds anon and you won't look like douche! hey look at me, look at me, I gave this guy the shirt off my back!


Sort of hard to be anonymous when you are handing out food, preaching on the corner, visiting the folks in prison, taking care of the widows, Visiting the sick...

A candle should never be hid under a basket...

The idea is to be doing the DEED for Jesus not for recognition....


----------



## Maine-Marine

Mish said:


> MM, I'm not a religious person but you have inspired me. Your devotion to your religion is refreshing. I see way too many people that pick and choose when religion is convenient for them to follow. =)
> 
> If there is a "God" I believe he will see who the true believers are in their actions after the SHTF. Who will follow his teachings when they are presented with situations that challenge everything? Will you steal...kill?


I feel the same in reverse... I have more respect for the non-believer that says they will close the door and just take care of their own family....then I do for the person that claims a relationship with Jesus yet refuse to place Jesus above all..

And I agree... we will see how pure the gold is when it starts getting refined....

I think that we will see more people doing good then doing evil...


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## jro1

when I see it, I say it how it is. This was a stupid thread anyway, because everyone seems to be holier than thou, and if they aren't then those who are seem to be trying to get the last word in on top of those with a different view! when I do a good deed it is kept between me and the lord.


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## Mish

I learned a lot in this thread...just sayin


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## Slippy

I'm a story teller so its natural for me to help someone change a tire or jump start his dead batter so I can then tell the story about the dumbass that couldn't even change his own tire or didn't know his battery was dead. Life can be a good story.


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## jro1

Slippy said:


> I'm a story teller so its natural for me to help someone change a tire or jump start his dead batter so I can then tell the story about the dumbass that couldn't even change his own tire or didn't know his battery was dead. Life can be a good story.


I agree, I love telling a good story like that. But when someone goes out and gives food to a homeless guy or helps people out in the general kind of way, and then goes to tell everybody how good of a person they are, I really have a hard time with that, and lose all respect for those kinds of people, might as well Tweet it and post it all over Facebook for all to see. that is not not why we do good deeds, and don't tell everybody about it either.
That whole thread was dominated and when some one had an opinion that differed from someone else,they were shut rite down for it! people are here to share their opinions and to be open about it, not expecting to be shut down only to have the same person come in to drop the last word every time! Seriously!!


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## Slippy

I hear you jro1.


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## Slippy

Mish said:


> I learned a lot in this thread...just sayin


Tell us dear Mishie,

What do you think are the 3 most important things that you learned from this thread?


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## inceptor

jro1 said:


> ! when I do a good deed it is kept between me and the lord.


Matthew happens to be one of my favorites. This is one part I try to live by.

_Matthew 6:1 Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you._


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## Montana Jack

There were some good points made here - it helped me crystalize my own thinking about what I'd do. I think it has to be on a case-to-case basis with the current conditions considered. Is it right after an earthquake or hurricane? Economic collapse? EMP? If it's short-term and we're likely to be back on our feet again, I'll be a little more generous. If the lights are out and no one's late-model car is running, then sorry folks, move along.


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## Charles Martel

Maine-Marine said:


> LOL...wow...The lesson here was not about sharing and the oil was not really oil.... I would suggest you pick up a good bible commentary before using this PARABLE to make a case for NOT SHARING...


I would suggest you stop relying on others to understand the word of god. The parable of the 10 virgins has meaning on multiple levels. 
You would have to be extraordinarily thick or incredibly brainwashed not to see the obvious message regarding the importance of spiritual and physical preparedness, vigilance, etc.


----------



## Casie

inceptor said:


> I think the truth is somewhere in between here for most of us. The govt has set up a whole lot of people who are so used to be taken care of. They will demand what they think is rightfully theirs. Just like what happened here, they will see it as their right. I still wonder if this wasn't a test.
> 
> Walmart to Get Stuck With Most of Food Stamp Shopping Spree - ABC News


Thank you so much for finding that clip, Inceptor. I could hardly believe it when it happened. These are not horrible little towns either. In fact Spring Hill is quite pretty with large wooded lots, rich fertile soil, and low population. We were even looking at buying land there at one time. Beautiful, right?!









Downtown Springhill is even cute. Its just a sleepy two lane street with parking on both sides, to serve the storefronts. If the Walmart there can be overrun with angry looting people. It can happen anywhere.

If something horrible does happen, for heavens sake guys please don't underestimate how quickly social norms can deteriorate. I know good people want to be helpful, but there will be time for that after the dust settles.

Be safe. Run deep and run silent.


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## jro1

"No bag of cheeto's left behind" -Unknown

Well I'm sure if it was paid for by food stamps, I'm guessing that anything of nutritional value was left on the shelf for anybody with a brain and cash in pocket! Good lord, Black Friday, A small power glitch...... Can you imagine if things really went south?!?!


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## inceptor

jro1 said:


> "No bag of cheeto's left behind" -Unknown


I'm pretty sure that was a quote from Fuzzee. :lol:


----------



## jro1

inceptor said:


> I'm pretty sure that was a quote from Fuzzee. :lol:


Actually It came to mind, I didn't want to show how far my level of intelligence will drop for a laugh!....Did I just post that?::clapping::


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## inceptor

jro1 said:


> Actually It came to mind, I didn't want to show how far my level of intelligence will drop for a laugh!....Did I just post that?::clapping::


It could have very well been Fuzzee. Cheeto's is one of his favorite preps. :lol:

Maybe this will drag him out of the closet. He's been AWOL.


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## jro1

inceptor said:


> It could have very well been Fuzzee. Cheeto's is one of his favorite preps. :lol:
> 
> Maybe this will drag him out of the closet. He's been AWOL.


I won't lie, but there will be some sinful treats I will miss during the "Event"......hmm, could be a good thread to start......"Foods or comforts we will miss most"


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## Moonshinedave

The things I think about is if the cities become uninhabitable, say a major EMP shuts down the power grid for the foreseeable future. There are millions of people living in our cities, they will have go somewhere. I don't think our government is just going to go away either, might be better if they did, but they won't give up their power.
Say for example the government starts taking people's land away from them to give displaced city dwellers? Government will allow you to keep your home and 3 acres, but the rest of your 100 acre farm now belongs to the government?, can't happen? you sure?, I'm not. Sounds exactly like something the government would do. Instead of those hoards of people we keep speaking of, what if it's our own government that goes door to door taking what we have stored to divide "fairly" to everyone?, oh yeah, might as well relieve you of your firearms while their at it, prevents you from doing something stupid. None of this sounds like anything our country would do after a major disaster? sounds exactly like what they'd do to me.


----------



## Mish

Slippy said:


> Tell us dear Mishie,
> 
> What do you think are the 3 most important things that you learned from this thread?


1. That there is no right or wrong in this thread...only what you're comfortable with. To each their own. 
2. Mental preparation is so important!! Just reading this thread gets your mind thinking about the hard decisions that you will face. The food, water, weapons, gear, are all easy things...you just buy them. The real hard choices come after. =) Live or die?!!!!
3. I'm shit out of luck!! I live in a highly populated area!! People will be coming in droves to my house. There is noway I can stay here. If TSHF, I would have to depend on other people just because I can't carry with me what I would need to survive long term. Going by what has been posted in this thread, I'm not going to make it long. I'll get a sandwich and a pat on the head for good luck.

Yep, learned a lot. =)


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## Maine-Marine

What I find interesting is that in a survival thread..which depends on an exchange of views and ideas and concepts...People are complaining that others are trying to get in the last word...

I think I have mostly replied to and been answering others ideas... 

If the rule is that we can only post one idea and then most move along...I was never informed.

I always thought online forums were for debate and education...and from that we could decide which ideas are the best or which practice or example we will decide to adhere to.

And of course the old battle cry against the person who is willing to follow Jesus and explain why...."SELF-RIGHTEOUS" 

There were a few comments above that I really wanted to answer but, now that I know it is wrong to "GET THE LAST WORD" I shall refrain from answering any more and I guess in the future will limit myself to one of two comments per thread (YA, like that will happen..ha ha ha )


----------



## Slippy

Mish said:


> 1. That there is no right or wrong in this thread...only what you're comfortable with. To each their own.
> 2. Mental preparation is so important!! Just reading this thread gets your mind thinking about the hard decisions that you will face. The food, water, weapons, gear, are all easy things...you just buy them. The real hard choices come after. =) Live or die?!!!!
> 3. I'm shit out of luck!! I live in a highly populated area!! People will be coming in droves to my house. There is noway I can stay here. If TSHF, I would have to depend on other people just because I can't carry with me what I would need to survive long term. Going by what has been posted in this thread, I'm not going to make it long. I'll get a sandwich and a pat on the head for good luck.
> 
> Yep, learned a lot. =)


Thanks Mish. Very interesting indeed.


----------



## Slippy

Maine-Marine said:


> What I find interesting is that in a survival thread..which depends on an exchange of views and ideas and concepts...People are complaining that others are trying to get in the last word...
> 
> I think I have mostly replied to and been answering others ideas...
> 
> If the rule is that we can only post one idea and then most move along...I was never informed.
> 
> I always thought online forums were for debate and education...and from that we could decide which ideas are the best or which practice or example we will decide to adhere to.
> 
> And of course the old battle cry against the person who is willing to follow Jesus and explain why...."SELF-RIGHTEOUS"
> 
> There were a few comments above that I really wanted to answer but, now that I know it is wrong to "GET THE LAST WORD" I shall refrain from answering any more and I guess in the future will limit myself to one of two comments per thread (YA, like that will happen..ha ha ha )


I'm confused Maine-Marine? Who is complaining about you getting the last word ? Also, do you know the Maine Prepper? I think you both might be Marines?


----------



## Maine-Marine

Charles Martel said:


> I would suggest you stop relying on others to understand the word of god. The parable of the 10 virgins has meaning on multiple levels.
> You would have to be extraordinarily thick or incredibly brainwashed not to see the obvious message regarding the importance of spiritual and physical preparedness, vigilance, etc.


The parable is one of a sequence of responses to a question in Matthew 24:3

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

This parable clearly has end times concepts....it should b e noted that the 5 foolish virgins had NO OIL to start with...Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 
The bible will always explain itself if given the chance...so I would again suggest a good commentary and a look at what the oil represents in regards to end times and the bridegroom showing up...
If this parable was about NOT SHARING...it would be in conflict with many other

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." - Luke 6:37-38

It is more blessed to give than to receive. 
-- Acts 20:35

God loves a cheerful giver. 
-- 2 Corinthians 9:7

He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord. 
-- Proverbs 19:17

Mat 25:34-40 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


----------



## inceptor

Looks like it's time to dust this off>

*The Ant and the Grasshopper*

The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green'

Occupy the Anthill stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the SEIU group singing, "We shall overcome".

Then Rev. Jeremiah Wright has the group kneel down to pray for the grasshopper's sake, while he damns the ants.

President Obama condemns the ant and blames President Bush 43, President Bush 41, President Reagan, Christopher Columbus, and the Pope for the grasshopper's plight..

Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government Green Czar and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow, never to be seen again.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related shooting. The house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the ramshackle, once prosperous and peaceful neighborhood.

The entire Nation collapses bringing the rest of the free world with it.


----------



## Just Sayin'

Not that it's going to matter a gnat's ass...

It doesn't really matter why I prepare, nor does it matter how well I did prepare when the SHTF. Nor should it matter what religion I subscribe to, or whether I am single or with family. 

Let me ask this of the military veterans, "Were you prepared to saddle up and risk your life to aid, rescue, or bring home the body, of a fellow soldier, airman, marine, or sailor?". Would you, in their time of need, give them anything you had, to ensure their survival, even if it meant you might die? Do you respect the man who is awarded the Medal of Honor, even though he does not subscribe to your personal ideals or religion? We swore an oath, in some cases, more than one, to uphold ideals that were not comic book ideals, but real ideals. That was the basis of our existence, that we might live up to an ideal, that if adhered to, would enable the survival of not only our loved ones at home, but our society as a whole.

I could ask the same question of religion, "Would you?"....

If we cannot, or will not, take care of each other, then we are doomed. It won't matter about religion, it won't matter about anything else, we will all miserably fail unless we recognize that if the SHTF for real, we are all we have, together.

Just Sayin"


----------



## pheniox17

Just Sayin' said:


> Not that it's going to matter a gnat's ass...
> 
> It doesn't really matter why I prepare, nor does it matter how well I did prepare when the SHTF. Nor should it matter what religion I subscribe to, or whether I am single or with family.
> 
> Let me ask this of the military veterans, "Were you prepared to saddle up and risk your life to aid, rescue, or bring home the body, of a fellow soldier, airman, marine, or sailor?". Would you, in their time of need, give them anything you had, to ensure their survival, even if it meant you might die? Do you respect the man who is awarded the Medal of Honor, even though he does not subscribe to your personal ideals or religion? We swore an oath, in some cases, more than one, to uphold ideals that were not comic book ideals, but real ideals. That was the basis of our existence, that we might live up to an ideal, that if adhered to, would enable the survival of not only our loved ones at home, but our society as a whole.
> 
> I could ask the same question of religion, "Would you?"....
> 
> If we cannot, or will not, take care of each other, then we are doomed. It won't matter about religion, it won't matter about anything else, we will all miserably fail unless we recognize that if the SHTF for real, we are all we have, together.
> 
> Just Sayin"


love the military reference, it seems fitting to this this thread

in the military your brother's in arms are your family, what would you do for your family??


----------



## inceptor

We can talk and plan and scheme all we want. Planning only gets you so far. When the rubber meets the road, things rarely go as planned and you just have to wing it. That's not rocket science, that's just fact.

I will tell you I am doing what I can with what I have. The rest I will leave to God to point me in the right direction.

There an old saying, Ya wanna make God laugh? Tell him what your plans are.


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## Casie

Maine-Marine said:


> I am not saying i will feed people because I am a GOOD person...I am saying I will do it because I am told to do it by somebody love Jesus....If a person is Not willing to be Obedient to their King..they need to find a new kingdom


That reply has little or nothing to do with the point I made, and that's ok.

I only suggest that instead of focusing your empathy and compassion on people that may one day wander your way like lost sheep in a storm, you might consider also offering some support and empathy to those on this thread now. People who will not be as lucky as you, if trouble does indeed strike.

Maybe instead of berating them you could let them know you care (because you are a good person or as you prefer it said, because you are obedient to your King). You could show this concern by saying something _generous_ like, " "I pray you and your family can be safe and nourished through any future danger. And if you see an opportunity to help another without sacrificing the lives of your own wife and children, I'm sure you will do your best." Kind words can be as nourishing to the soul as a warm meal is to the body.

It's just that you had an opportunity here and now to teach by example, and I think maybe it was missed.

Of course if we are very very blessed, these posts and all our prepping will be just good character building exercises. And we will never actually have to see for ourselves how ugly real disaster and social decay can actually be. Be safe my friend.


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## spokes

I've only had time to scan about half the pages in this thread. Lots to think about and digest.

I worry about our friends, not so much about our neighbors. Most of our neighbors are Amish and probably with out realizing it, more prepped than we are, but our friends. Most of them are city dwellers, or town dwellers who rely on the local grocery store way too much and have little if any reserves to fall back on should the SHTF. Many have said that if trouble comes, can they come to our farm. I hate it when they ask us that. We have water, hunting ground, a relatively remote location and preps for a year. We could get by.

BUT, our stores would be stretched thin if we took in 4 or more people who had nothing to offer our little island of survival other than their hungry bellies and backs that are not accustomed to splitting wood or farm life.

We have told our friends that they are welcome if they bring food, firearms, ammo and their own supplies. We have the room for them to have shelter but they have to have their own preps. Most give me a puzzled look and say "I need to start storing some food". 

If we can get one family to start to think ahead and provide for them selves then we have done good IMHO. What is that old saying: Give a man a fish and he will eat for one day, teach him how to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime? I would rather be a teacher than an enabler. I would rather a friend help themselves then depend on me to feed and shelter them if the worst happens. 

Too much of that is going on in the country now as it is. It's called Welfare. 

If you want a scary thought, just take a moment to consider what is going to happen with all the food stamp and welfare recipients should the SHTF. They will be the first to riot when the store shelves are empty. After all, why help yourself when the government teat is so available and comforting?


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## bad

The trouble with getting prepared is that the government sugar teat is hanging low. It is much easier to get on the dole and get an EBT card. Don't sacrifice anything. Still have property and Auto payments. Still have your credit card maxed, still have cable TV and 4 cell phones. These people coming to your door don't want to give up anything in return. 

My wife and I worked with the public and saw that 50 percent were this way. It hardly mattered what their income level was. Some poor people budgeted and some who were wealthy accepted every handout.

I think the trick is put a value on everything. Nothing has to be "free". Doing that will tell you who really needs what you have.


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## spokes

My husband and me, two mind with similar thoughts!

We both posted at the same time without reading one another's statement.

Do we think alike or what?:lol::idea:


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## Charles Martel

spokes said:


> If you want a scary thought, just take a moment to consider what is going to happen with all the food stamp and welfare recipients should the SHTF. They will be the first to riot when the store shelves are empty. After all, why help yourself when the government teat is so available and comforting?


Over 100 million Americans receive food assistance from the federal government. There are now more people sucking the government tit than there are people employed in the private sector. This means that 1 in 3 Americans can't figure out how the hell to feed themselves.

101M Get Food Aid from Federal Gov?t; Outnumber Full-Time Private Sector Workers | CNS News

Can you even imagine what will happen when these zombies can no longer go to the store and swipe their EBT's?

God help us all.


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## Notsoyoung

I think that the constant vilification of anyone who gets ahead of others would have an affect if the SHTF. Let me explain. I continuously hear the parasites complaining about how "unfair" it is that someone has more then them, how everybody would be doing great if it wasn't for the "greediness" of the rich, corporations, whoever. They seem to believe that if someone has more they got it by doing something dishonest or immoral, and because theses "evil people" have more, the ones complaining have less.

Now take that to a situation where food stamps stop, there is no food to be bought at the stores, and people run out of food in their homes. Do you think that just maybe they will accuse those who do have food of being greedy, immoral, or thieves, and should have their food taken and them punished? Think just maybe they would even go so far as to punish or kill "food hoarders"? I think that there will be plenty of these parasites who will convince themselves that it would be a moral act to attack you and take all of your food. Go back an watch some of the interviews of those who were in the "occupy" movement. I don't think what I have said is very far fetched.


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## ekim

Not to worry, we have Maine-Marine and MR out there saying they can take care of the people, but only for a sort time and if it doesn't take away from their families. How can it not. All the people on this forum that say they are prepping for others that don't prep, can you sit there and say that by prepping for the takers your not taking away from your own. BS in the highest degree. You can try to fool yourself all you want, but don't think everyone thinks your not lying to yourself and those on this forum. MM asked me how I who decide whom I would help, but then said if it starts to effect what his family needs he would then think again what he gives out. I will throw it back at him with this, never worry, God will come running to the rescue since you gave away all you had and now your family is in need and you gave away they're preps. 
I have no help for those who throw away their own means of survival, find another sucker dumber than yourself to suck the free teat from. Ask the government to help you. MR, this valley you talk about, is this all your property that your offering to the moochers that your going to give away. If not are you sure those that have a say about what you are willing to give up agree with you? What are those million people going to do when you don't do all the farming, hunting, provide the water and sanitation needed and your valley becomes another getto area? How many here get all bent when nobama/Federal government does what MM and MR say they will do but yet think MM and MR got it right!


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## 6811

Casie said:


> MM! Where is your understanding and empathy now? You write as if you are the only person here who has ever generously given time, resources or support to a person in need! Of course every good decent man will want to feed and shelter every single needy individual that passes his door! Of course others here have paid for someone less fortunate's dinner or groceries! Goodness, maybe we just don't choose to speak about it.
> 
> The point is everyone here is NOT in a remote area. Not everyone here has the financial means to prep for their family AND hundreds of strangers. Instead of insulting, chastising and berating those here who are not as lucky as you, perhaps you could *now* show some kindness and support and say something like, "*I pray you and your family can be safe and nourished through any future danger. And if you see an opportunity to help another without sacrificing the lives of your own wife and children, I'm sure you will do your best.*"
> 
> I do not know what the future holds. But I live just 70 miles from those 2 Walmart stores that were completely emptied of ALL inventory in less than 3 hours after SNAP shoppers discovered their cards were no longer working. They called every family member and friend they knew and an unstoppable wave of angry looting people grew in an instant. Police on scene didn't even try to stop them because they were so completely out numbered.
> 
> But here you post reply after reply as if you are a better person than others here because you feel far removed from this danger. And you will happily be able to feed and shelter all who pass. How lucky (blessed) you are! How lucky (blessed) I am to be many miles away in the woods. But my heart goes out to any one of the very nice families that live much closer to those Walmarts. And I will never be so callous as to judge them if they are ever forced to make a terrible, impossible decision to close their doors, hide away, and put their own children first.
> 
> Lets pray we will never have to find out, my well meaning friend.


Amen... well said


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## Slippy

There is no doubt that Montana Rancher speaks from his areas of knowledge and expertise. I have no doubt that he is a great American and I would have him in my corner any day. I believe that most of us suffer from a certain amount of Egocentrism. I don't mean that in a bad way but in a realistic way. We speak from where and what we know. 

Here is my view on it...Montana Rancher lives in an area of low population in a very tough land. I'll bet that most people there are very similar to him. Maybe not as "super-hero-ish" as he is but you get my meaning. Hence things that he doesn't face are not a big deal with him. Illegal Immigration is not as big of deal to him as it is to the rancher in TX or AZ. 

Same goes for people showing up looking for help. Chances are slim that in a true SHTF situation that there will be hordes of zombies infiltrating the valleys of Southern Montana looking for a handout. Compare that to someone near Atlanta or Dallas, or Detroit or Denver and you have a different situation. My point is that is easy for MR to say that he will feed all that come to his door when the probability is pretty small...at least in the beginning.

Same goes for Maine Marine if he lives in the remote areas of Maine. Just my view.


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## Charles Martel

Slippy said:


> There is no doubt that Montana Rancher speaks from his areas of knowledge and expertise. I have no doubt that he is a great American and I would have him in my corner any day. I believe that most of us suffer from a certain amount of Egocentrism. I don't mean that in a bad way but in a realistic way. We speak from where and what we know.
> 
> Here is my view on it...Montana Rancher lives in an area of low population in a very tough land. I'll bet that most people there are very similar to him. Maybe not as "super-hero-ish" as he is but you get my meaning. Hence things that he doesn't face are not a big deal with him. Illegal Immigration is not as big of deal to him as it is to the rancher in TX or AZ.
> 
> Same goes for people showing up looking for help. Chances are slim that in a true SHTF situation that there will be hordes of zombies infiltrating the valleys of Southern Montana looking for a handout. Compare that to someone near Atlanta or Dallas, or Detroit or Denver and you have a different situation. My point is that is easy for MR to say that he will feed all that come to his door when the probability is pretty small...at least in the beginning.
> 
> Same goes for Maine Marine if he lives in the remote areas of Maine. Just my view.


Agreed, I think most of us will help who we can, when we can. We are approaching this particular moral dilemma from different backgrounds and entirely different physical situations. I try not to pass judgment either way. I find preppers, as a group, to be incredibly generous with both their time and their resources. I have confidence we will all do what we believe to be right, both morally and practically, when it comes down to it. I talk tough, but I doubt I'll be as hard hearted as I sound if my non-prepper brother were to show up at my door with his 4 kids post SHTF.

My main residence is in a fairly densely populated region of Northern Utah. As such, I would have to think differently about my circumstances and the potential unintended consequences of my generosity than someone living in a more remote area of the country.


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## jimb1972

Charles Martel said:


> Agreed, I think most of us will help who we can, when we can. We are approaching this particular moral dilemma from different backgrounds and entirely different physical situations. I try not to pass judgment either way. I find preppers, as a group, to be incredibly generous with both their time and their resources. I have confidence we will all do what we believe to be right, both morally and practically, when it comes down to it. I talk tough, but I doubt I'll be as hard hearted as I sound if my non-prepper brother were to show up at my door with his 4 kids post SHTF.
> 
> My main residence is in a fairly densely populated region of Northern Utah. As such, I would have to think differently about my circumstances and the potential unintended consequences of my generosity than someone living in a more remote area of the country.


There are probably a lot more "prepared" families in Northern Utah as well, the high number of Mormons and their churches teachings on preparedness should cut down on the number of beggars.


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## Charles Martel

jimb1972 said:


> There are probably a lot more "prepared" families in Northern Utah as well, the high number of Mormons and their churches teachings on preparedness should cut down on the number of beggars.


Its true. Most of my neighbors have several months worth of food stashed in their basements and crawlspaces. In addition to generally being better prepared than the rest of the general population, Mormons tend to have a self-reliant streak, too. Mormons also tend to be very family-centric (they take care of their own), and incredibly law-abiding. There won't be many loose canons on the streets of Provo, Utah, during SHTF.


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## Maine-Marine

ekim said:


> Not to worry, we have Maine-Marine and MR out there saying they can take care of the people, but only for a sort time and if it doesn't take away from their families. How can it not. All the people on this forum that say they are prepping for others that don't prep, can you sit there and say that by prepping for the takers your not taking away from your own. BS in the highest degree. You can try to fool yourself all you want, but don't think everyone thinks your not lying to yourself and those on this forum. MM asked me how I who decide whom I would help, but then said if it starts to effect what his family needs he would then think again what he gives out. I will throw it back at him with this, never worry, God will come running to the rescue since you gave away all you had and now your family is in need and you gave away they're preps.
> I have no help for those who throw away their own means of survival, find another sucker dumber than yourself to suck the free teat from. Ask the government to help you. MR, this valley you talk about, is this all your property that your offering to the moochers that your going to give away. If not are you sure those that have a say about what you are willing to give up agree with you? What are those million people going to do when you don't do all the farming, hunting, provide the water and sanitation needed and your valley becomes another getto area? How many here get all bent when nobama/Federal government does what MM and MR say they will do but yet think MM and MR got it right!


I never said I would rethink feeding those that showed up on my door...


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## Maine-Marine

I have a lot of preps from the lds church (and I am not a mormon) Home Storage - store.lds.org

Even if I lived in the middle of NY City I would still provide a meal to those that showed up at my door and asked....

See...My God is a very big God... he can keep me alive or take me home at any time...I trust him more then the amount of supplies I have in my house.

My view is not a worldly world...I am not going to cling to this life and I would not turn away a stranger just so i could feed my family for 1 more meal. Either God is going to provide or he will take us home... None of the apostles made it out alive, and I am sure I will not either.

If you want to turn away people and not provide food to those in need...I understand... I do not agree but I understand.

You may think I am a fool, that is ok... I am convinced and fully persuaded of what I believe


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## BigRed

This thread has given me so much to think about.
Our Neighbours on either side are lovely families and have babies and toddlers. If they came knocking looking for food for their hungry kids I would find it incredibly difficult to not give them something. However If the neighbors across the road caught wind that we had supplies, that would be the end of it all. With four adult sons living in their home who have never worked a day in their lives and already have a load of convictions between them including theft and breaking and entering, I can't see their respect of other people's property or entitled mentality improving in a collapse situation. 

Need to do a lot of thinking- do I turn the decent Neighbours away to avoid word getting out that we have stashed supplies? It would seem the right thing to do in order to be able to feed and protect my own little bub. However I don't know that I could knowingly let the little kids next door starve knowing I had food I could give. 
Have thought about approaching the Neighbours and gently raising the idea of prepping and organizing a three house 'community' for a bad situation- but the idea of prepping is so unknown here- I think they'd think I was completely nuts and avoid us like the plague- until a bad situation happened at least and they needed food for the kids. 

A huge amount to think about- this thread has made me realize I haven't even begun being mentally prepared. 
Also Might be time to move somewhere more isolated or start the process of applying for a firearms license.


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## Charles Martel

Maine-Marine said:


> I have a lot of preps from the lds church (and I am not a mormon) Home Storage - store.lds.org
> 
> Even if I lived in the middle of NY City I would still provide a meal to those that showed up at my door and asked....
> 
> See...My God is a very big God... he can keep me alive or take me home at any time...I trust him more then the amount of supplies I have in my house.
> 
> My view is not a worldly world...I am not going to cling to this life and I would not turn away a stranger just so i could feed my family for 1 more meal. Either God is going to provide or he will take us home... None of the apostles made it out alive, and I am sure I will not either.
> 
> If you want to turn away people and not provide food to those in need...I understand... I do not agree but I understand.
> 
> You may think I am a fool, that is ok... I am convinced and fully persuaded of what I believe


I admire your faith, man. I don't think you're a fool. I respect you for living your values and your conscience. That's all any of us can do.


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## Maine-Marine

BigRed said:


> This thread has given me so much to think about.
> Our Neighbours on either side are lovely families and have babies and toddlers. If they came knocking looking for food for their hungry kids I would find it incredibly difficult to not give them something. However If the neighbors across the road caught wind that we had supplies, that would be the end of it all. With four adult sons living in their home who have never worked a day in their lives and already have a load of convictions between them including theft and breaking and entering, I can't see their respect of other people's property or entitled mentality improving in a collapse situation.
> 
> Need to do a lot of thinking- do I turn the decent Neighbours away to avoid word getting out that we have stashed supplies? It would seem the right thing to do in order to be able to feed and protect my own little bub. However I don't know that I could knowingly let the little kids next door starve knowing I had food I could give.
> Have thought about approaching the Neighbours and gently raising the idea of prepping and organizing a three house 'community' for a bad situation- but the idea of prepping is so unknown here- I think they'd think I was completely nuts and avoid us like the plague- until a bad situation happened at least and they needed food for the kids.
> 
> A huge amount to think about- this thread has made me realize I haven't even begun being mentally prepared.
> Also Might be time to move somewhere more isolated or start the process of applying for a firearms license.


Think about this... You would be better off with your good neighbors on your side... And they can provide early warning...


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## Slippy

Maine-Marine said:


> I have a lot of preps from the lds church (and I am not a mormon) Home Storage - store.lds.org
> 
> Even if I lived in the middle of NY City I would still provide a meal to those that showed up at my door and asked....
> 
> See...My God is a very big God... he can keep me alive or take me home at any time...I trust him more then the amount of supplies I have in my house.
> 
> My view is not a worldly world...I am not going to cling to this life and I would not turn away a stranger just so i could feed my family for 1 more meal. Either God is going to provide or he will take us home... None of the apostles made it out alive, and I am sure I will not either.
> 
> If you want to turn away people and not provide food to those in need...I understand... I do not agree but I understand.
> 
> You may think I am a fool, that is ok... I am convinced and fully persuaded of what I believe


Very admirable I think. I just don't know what I'd do in every situation. As I said, I would have to rely on my faith, education, instict and knowledge.


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## BigRed

I Absolutely agree- but how to get them gently on side to prepping before shtf?
I'm trying to stock a lot more than my family needs- so maybe I just continue with that and when shtf I can loop them in. I can't afford to prep for all the nice neighbours though, and although I would want to help- where do you draw the line before helping Neighbours means I haven't got enough for my own bub? 
So glad I joined this forum though- given me lots to think about that I hadn't contemplated before.


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## pheniox17

BigRed said:


> I Absolutely agree- but how to get them gently on side to prepping before shtf?
> I'm trying to stock a lot more than my family needs- so maybe I just continue with that and when shtf I can loop them in. I can't afford to prep for all the nice neighbours though, and although I would want to help- where do you draw the line before helping Neighbours means I haven't got enough for my own bub?
> So glad I joined this forum though- given me lots to think about that I hadn't contemplated before.


well you have the bonus of Australia love

takes time, but a beer is awesome ice breaker (up north anyway)

and never blurt out "I'm a prepper" but do little hints, firearms are taboo here, but ask about firearms (you will get a pro or against firearms comment, a hot topic), talk about local disasters (the bush fires that get quite major down there is worth talking about)

you're in the early stage of been prepared, so a suggestion, look up food banks, they get a lot of "b" stock that woolies can't sell, and old rice and such, all good starting points for prepper food storage, I have even seen boxes of water cheap (gives you a start point, but no frills water at woolies is cheap to)

you can't possibly be set up over night, there is also 2 half decent au prep pages I visit, if interested pm me and I will send you there


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## ekim

Maine-Marine said:


> I never said I would rethink feeding those that showed up on my door...


It could be that I mis read your post, but you have eliminated any doubt in my mind. You will sacrifice anything and any one to appease your God and to me that is scary, thus you are scary to me and a threat. I'm through with the likes of you. Enjoy you life.


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## Deebo

Sorry, gonna have some hurt feelings, but THIS is how I feel. And this is a true story.
Tuesday, I was gassing up the fiances car,and see two people carrying duffel bags and one doggie. I saw the man go into the store, and the woman ask a person in a car for something. Then, she comes limping towards me, and I cant say if I noticed her limping before or not. She tells me her son Died yesterday, and she needs money to cremate him. I sadly told her that I couldn't help her, and that I wish I could. 
Now, I know, thats pretty heartless, I have just heard so many stories from every person I see in the Albequerque area, and I see every street corner has someone begging. I was very saddened, thinking that If her son really died, that Im jaded from all the lowlifes around refusing to work, that I decided not to help them. 
I must say, it bothered me. It really bothers me, that the same day, I saw two kids standing on a corner with guitar and a sign thta said, "broke, need gas money".
Could I have helped the first couple, of course I could. I eat well, I have everything I need, and most damn near everything I want, BECOUSE I bust my ass, everyday, since I was 13, to INSURE that I have what I need. 
I will continue to give to charity, especially the Ronald McDonald House, as they really took great care of my family during an out of state accident, allowing us to stay there, and feed us, becouse we were strapped, and If we would have had to pay full price, we couldn't have stayed with my baby sister and her kids after a TERRIBLE accident.
Hate me if you want, I have a family, they are my priority. I cant answer if I will turn anyone away, becouse even one can of soup can be life or death. Sorry, just the way I feel.


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## Maine-Marine

ekim said:


> It could be that I mis read your post, but you have eliminated any doubt in my mind. You will sacrifice anything and any one to appease your God and to me that is scary, thus you are scary to me and a threat. I'm through with the likes of you. Enjoy you life.


I love the way you PROCESS things... I said I would feed people that ask..and from that you get "You will sacrifice anything and any one to appease your God"

You have an interesting way of turning a phrase...

I think in the big picture..you are the one people should fear... by your own admission you will not help anybody that can not help you...you will not feed anybody that does not offer you an advantage...

Knock on my door - get a sandwich
Knock on your door - get a "bullet, warning, threat,...."


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## Maine-Marine

My Kids are 23, 21, 5, 2, 1.....

The 2 oldest are working and not close to home... one is in the Marines and Stationed outside Conus. the other is in CA

My kids are a priority and I will do a lot to make sure they are protected. (Notice I say I will do a lot...I will not do everything/anything....I will not murder or steal)

If somebody comes to TAKE by force I will defend my family. If somebody comes peacefully and in need, I will not turn them away...

Do I worry they will come back day after day after day... No, because it will be clear that they will get a meal and that is it...chances are it will be the same peanut butter sandwich every day...They will either realize this and decide to move on or they will try and take things by force...I think they will be shown up front that TAKING will be costly and dangerous.

I am not going to be able to TAKE CARE OF EVERYBODY...but I can offer some assistance to everybody that asks...

I could run out of food..I doubt it though. I think I will be better off in the long run and have less attacks


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## paraquack

Back quite a few years ago, a family with kids was found living in a makeshift shelter just off a Chicago expressway. The media was all over them. "Poor folks, we need to help them." Well they collected all sorts of money and food and clothing and stuff. About a week later, one news programs announces the family moves from one city to another, pulling the same scam. 
On the way to work, I saw a guy dressed in a field jacket with a sign, "Vietnam vet, I'm hungry, please help me." I stopped to give him a $5 and I talked for a moment and found out he was a Marine over there in 1968. He thanked me profusely and I went on my way. I did this 4 or 5 days in a row. On the last day I talked again for a moment and he went on to tell me how he was a cook on a Tin Can in the Gulf of Tonkin. I guess he forgot his story from the first day. When I got to work and started changing clothes, I notice I was wearing the Navy cap my son sent me from the USS Sumter, the LST he was on in 1989.
I find it hard to trust people anymore unless someone can really vouch for them. Maybe after a SHTF event, it'll be easier to believe a story.


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## Deebo

Oh, almost forgot, a few days before, a guy is sitting in the back of McDonalds, between the order sign and the window, begging. I informed the cashier that a vagrant was hitting up everybody that came to their bussiness, he left, and didn't go inside to buy food. In my jaded mind, he was hauling ass to go get a "hit".

Im PROUD to say, that when I grew up, begging was a disgrace, and a shame. Would I beg- Hell yeah- My sign would read Will work for food. Now.
I have a buddy, runs a roofing company in Albequerque, $9 for general labor, cant keep help. Its too hot. The shingles are too heavy. Its too cold. You go to work too early. What a shame.


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## Slippy

I think the lines have become blurred in regards to those who truly need help and those who are in a scam and don't want to work. It is becoming rare to find real workers today. My grandfather worked in the blast furnace room of a steel mill for over 40 years. When he was forced to retire he would show up to work before his old shift began just to drink coffee and visit with his buddies. Then he would suit up and sneak into the blast furnace to help out...for no pay, because he was a worker. Mill management finally had to tell him he couldn't come to work for no pay anymore. Broke his heart.


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## Maine-Marine

I was going into an Aldis a few months back... there were a couple of guys outside...they were asking people if they could return the carts so they could have the 25 cents. (At Aldis you have to put a quarter in to get a cart)

To me - this showed a willingness to work.... they were willing to earn 25 cents per cart in order to buy food.... and to top it off... They used the first little bit of money to bu a can of dog food for their dog...

After seeing what was going on I went back in and bought them some basics...


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## Maine-Marine

ekim said:


> How many here get all bent when nobama/Federal government does what MM and MR say they will do but yet think MM and MR got it right!


Truth and honesty are important things...as is honor, courage, and the ability to have critical thinking

Your comment above is flawed on many levels but I will only discuss one.... WE (the people) get upset with the government because they are giving away OUR wealth and resources without our permission. If I decide to give somebody a hand out from my personal inventory of my own property...it is mine to do as I wish.. but when the government breaks its trust with us (We the People) and wastes what we have provided... it is much different.

Trying to compare what a single person does with his or her own property to what the government does... is just misleading


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