# Obama to Vets: give up your guns



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Letters being sent

Obama threatening veterans? gun rights


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## trainershawn (Dec 14, 2012)

Crap. Wish I hadn't thrown away the letters I've received from the VA over the last three months. Guess I should have read them to see what they were about.


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## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

Actually this is based on the Brady Bill passed long before Obama took office. Now it states clearly in the law that one must be adjudicated mentally incompetent to be deigned a gun even under the Brady bill. Now this letter as near as I can see on the sight is from the Oregon VA not the federal. So until I see it proved with more data or actually see a letter or letters from another VA I have doubts it is factual. You know kind of like the "Friends of Hamas" that was raise recently. Flat out rumor or lies to say the least.


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## insatiable ONE (Nov 9, 2012)

It sort of goes with this video floating around.
Many claim it may be false. never the less. keep in mind


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Mental competency rarely self determined. I mean people do commit themselves but its pretty rare. So mental competency must be determined by another party, and in most cases we're talking a bureacrat or an over educated psycobablite. (yeah I made that up cause my dear wife is one of them  And she currently counself returning veterans at the VA, she literally just wants to stay unitl our Afghanistan group is home. Then its retirement. She already knows that veterans are refusing to talk with her out of fear - fear of her placing them on a list. Its impacting their ability to get help - nice job obummer. Did you think about that DiFi - I would bet not. She has encountered one case where a person needs to be barred from owning a firearm, and she has seen hundreds - so one out of hundreds - not a lot.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

We also know that psychiatry is less than a hard science and is prone to political winds.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

All we need is the government to have a mental panel to determine who is competent to own guns.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Part of a plan? Maybe. My wife has a lot of training in working with people and PTSD. She's also been a licensed counselor for 20 + years. I would say with more than 600,000 people having "visited" the countries of Iraq and Afghanistan in the last decade the need for people to help them is real. How many I don't know. My wife lost her dad a few years ago, I lost mine about 4 years ago, and both were WWII veterans. She caught a lot of flak from them - "we didn't have no G.D. social workers - when we came home." She got earfuls from them and she thinks the bigger problem is granting disability too - to many. Clearly some are disabled, but she says too many are trying to milk it because PTSD is something you can get disability for - however a few are waking up to what that might cost them (especially the one's gaming the system). I volunteer at her office some, you can smell the scammers / those gaming the system. The shifty eyed little leaches are no good. Then you have those who truly need our countries help and earned it - the hard way. That group you can see easily too - and its not always just physical.



oswegoscott said:


> One of my sons is a Navy vet working as an RN in The Syracuse Vet hospital. He said they put on another staff shrink. I wonder if it's part of "the plan"


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

This is not new he tried it before but held off until the election.
Remember DHS and what they said.
Wake up America


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

What times the war? I'll need to ask for leave from work.


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

Its about like that. Ive noticed my city is acting more and more militarized. In a citizen kind of way. And with our CWP noones gonna know when we decide to go off the grid.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

joec said:


> Actually this is based on the Brady Bill passed long before Obama took office. Now it states clearly in the law that one must be adjudicated mentally incompetent to be deigned a gun even under the Brady bill. Now this letter as near as I can see on the sight is from the Oregon VA not the federal. So until I see it proved with more data or actually see a letter or letters from another VA I have doubts it is factual. You know kind of like the "Friends of Hamas" that was raise recently. Flat out rumor or lies to say the least.


I noticed that, Joe, but I am also noticing a tendancy to get balls rolling in tyranny-friendly states.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

If you are injured in theater part of your recovery and treatment is a required meeting with a counselor. It may be 1 or two visits it maybe many they decide.
You may see this as harmless meet with the nice lady a few times get fixed and go about your life.
Surprise you saw a mental heath person you are now tagged.
The one I saw was a well educated person in some ways but she did not think anyone that would serve in the military was "all there".
So it did not madder how your meeting went you were considered in her mind to be off balance.
These types of meeting are what are now being used against some soldiers.


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## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

Denton said:


> I noticed that, Joe, but I am also noticing a tendancy to get balls rolling in tyranny-friendly states.


That makes my case that state governments shouldn't be able to pass any law that isn't in line with the US Constitution which they are not supposed to. However they do it all the time and most of the laws/ordinances they pass are flat unconstitutional. States rights to me is a flat bad subject and I also hate BS in general. States in general have been the biggest threat to personal freedoms period.


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## Scotty12 (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm a vet and he can have one of mine. 1600.00 to his ffl, he pays shipping, 100.00 for p mags lol


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

> That makes my case that state governments shouldn't be able to pass any law that isn't in line with the US Constitution which they are not supposed to. However they do it all the time and most of the laws/ordinances they pass are flat unconstitutional. States rights to me is a flat bad subject and I also hate BS in general. States in general have been the biggest threat to personal freedoms period.


Thats what the first Civil War was fought over by the way. In a less then round about way. But now weve swung the other way into a Federal Govmnt that wants to monitor and control every aspect of our lives. States are being ripped apart in support or deference to this Federal position.

Which does not say your post is not very accurate. But with todays Federal policies who is left to lean on besides the State. Beyond that is.....Bow to the Fuhrer or Pick up your guns again. The State is the only thing standing between us and complete violation currently and thats only dependent on what State you live in.


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## Scotty12 (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm a psych major but I have yet to see the new DSM 5. i have only dealt with the DSM IV. i also know that we all have have issues in our past that may warrent Fruedian Psychotherapy, Operant learning techniques to deal with maladjusted behavior, and other means of therapy. I also need to get my back looked at from years of work, new glasses, and a motorcycle in my yard. I'll keep my firearms, thank you.


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## Scotty12 (Jan 5, 2013)

That makes so mad I'll post again. they don't want us to have firearms probably the average Veteran is just better at using them, making them a potential threat. good point, oswegoscott


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We hear about so many soldiers committing suicide. What you do not hear is it most often has nothing to do with combat.
It has to do with how they have been treated , They come home family problems wife takes kids soldier gets messed over. Part of the scam every soldiers wife knows to scream abuse ,true or not soldier losses every time . They get messed around by a phony new VA even denied healthcare they have coming , And what do they see little ribbons We support the troops .
Every time they see one their blood boils, they don't want the phony ribbon they want to be treated with respect they want what they have coming.
This is a subject I could go on for hours on but I will spare you.
The VA sold out to the Obama administration in his first term to protect their tails.


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## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

Scotty12 said:


> That makes so mad I'll post again. they don't want us to have firearms probably the average Veteran is just better at using them, making them a potential threat. good point, oswegoscott


Now I find that opinion interesting really. My father was a sniper with the 4th Marine division in WWII and never owned a gun. A couple of other guys I have know for years that served in Nam don't either. As my father told me once he didn't need a gun to protect himself (6'4" tall about 250 lbs of solid muscle he was probably right about that), and he had hunted men so animals was too easy.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

joec said:


> Now I find that opinion interesting really. My father was a sniper with the 4th Marine division in WWII and never owned a gun. A couple of other guys I have know for years that served in Nam don't either. As my father told me once he didn't need a gun to protect himself (6'4" tall about 250 lbs of solid muscle he was probably right about that), and he had hunted men so animals was too easy.


 There was a time he was 90% right. The world changed. 
When I retired I put all mine away I some how though I would never need them . I was wrong, the world changed


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## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> There was a time he was 90% right. The world changed.
> When I retired I put all mine away I some how though I would never need them . I was wrong, the world changed


I made a living with one for 4 years then went about 10 without one after that. Now I do own a few however I also shoot cowboy action which accounts for most of them. My wife has a single carry gun and I do also but I also have a target only pistol I just like to shoot. Now both my wife and I have concealed carry permits and both carry daily with few exceptions. I'm just getting back into hunting again at 66 yrs. old when the last time I did I was 24 yrs old. For hunting I have 2 rifles in different calibers. Now I've had a conceal carry permit since the first came out in the early 80's. Though a decade I didn't own a gun I keep it current and my wife got hers now about 3 years ago on the advice of the LEO that rent storage from us. She still doesn't get out with my cowboy action though does go with me to watch and forget about hunting, since she is too much of an animal lover for that.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Yes, we have a lot of sorry leeches scamming the system. I know a few. A shame.
I have only known one person who I know for a fact had issues, but he used a flame thrower in the Asian theater. He never could get to sleep good and proper. The screams of the fried Japs tormented him until he died.

Yeah, I am sure we have people who need an ear, but not the check as much. All the same, though, they are on the same short list.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

From the opening article- _"..some American military veterans have received a letter from the Veterans Administration warning that their competency to handle their own affairs is under review, and if determined by government bureaucrats to be "incompetent," they would be barred from possessing weapons.."_

As an armchair lawyer I've been predicting for some time that the Govt will try to use this Founding Father quote to disarm people whether they're vets or anybody else-
_*"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms"
- Samuel Adams*_

The key phrase is "*peaceable citizens*", so if somebody is deemed NON-peaceable, they'll try to take his guns away.
For example even persistent speeders, jaywalkers and people who fart in crowded lifts could be seen as "non-peaceable", catch mah drift?
Likewise if a vet or anybody else starts behaving irrationally and worrying people they'll be a-coming for his guns.
(Remember when Capt. Queeg went irrational in The Caine Mutiny and they took his ship away from him? There ya go)
The moral therefore is to stay squeaky-clean and they won't be able to touch you..


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## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

oswegoscott said:


> Being a vet doesn't always CAUSE a person to want/like firearms. But,a vet should have the right to own one. Also,the bulk of the military doesn't use or carry one!
> I hunt for meat--totally different then warfare. I'm 6'1" and 250 and KNOW a bullet can take me out-- a 6'10" 320 b-ball player probably knows that,too.
> Am I missing your point?


Yes you did miss the point completely. I think as long as they aren't convicted of a felony, or adjudicated mentally incompetent they should be within their rights to own a gun. I was simply commenting on some vets don't want a gun especially those that saw combat.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

There is some truth and some failure to what you have said. My wife is that nice lady. And yes seeing her is required and yes she is a mental health professional, but she can not dictate you get added counseling. She can not dictate you see a psychologist, and she rarely offers added mental health serives unless the Vet is asking for help. Meeting with her does NOT put you on any kind of list. Most of what she does is explain what the VET can do, what is available to them, and what to do next to get back to the best life possible. She's been in this position for 3 years and before that did one on one's with WWII guys and some from the Korean era. In her 3 years she has encountered, her words, maybe 5 or 10 mentally disturbed people (including a few women ) she didn't think should be in possession of a gun with the primary fear they'd use it on themselves. She does see nearly 15 returning vets a week right now so figure 2,000 in 3 years and at most 10 she thought should not have access to guns. One out of that 2,000 tried to check out a few weeks ago. Not with a gun.



Smitty901 said:


> If you are injured in theater part of your recovery and treatment is a required meeting with a counselor. It may be 1 or two visits it maybe many they decide.
> You may see this as harmless meet with the nice lady a few times get fixed and go about your life.
> Surprise you saw a mental heath person you are now tagged.
> The one I saw was a well educated person in some ways but she did not think anyone that would serve in the military was "all there".
> ...


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## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

oswegoscott said:


> OK. Well,the ones that don't want them due to combat probably didn't have an interest in them BEFORE they entered the military.
> I don't think combat would take away an interest in hunting or target shooting


Actually my father from what I understand was a pretty big hunter/shooter though it was before I was born. I was born in 1946 a year after the war ended.


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