# Lumber prices



## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Anybody been to the lumber yard lately to buy wood? HOLY HELL! Prices are crazy. 😳


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Inflation is hitting everything hard now, especially construction materials. Demand has increased and Production/Supply has been basically stagnant for a long time. Add to that plant closures due to lock-downs and workers taking COVID "vacations" and you have limited supply.

New Housing Construction has been climbing since March of last year. Repair and Remodel has been on fire for over a year and yes, COVID19 has played a huge role in this sector. Home based workers have motivated the typical family of 4 to find a new home with an extra bedroom/office and home based workers are taking the time to repair the old deck, or build a new one. 

With Mortgage rates still very low, and banks still giving loans to people that shouldn't receive them without government backing, we have another recipe for disaster looming ahead. 

If interest rates climb 2 points and gas prices hit 4 bucks a gallon watch out! Should be fun...form some.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Have you tried to buy a used car or truck lately?? Motorcycles are all sold out and prices are ridiculous. Thanks liberals.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Well . . . at least when your wife says she wants you to take her somewhere expensive for dinner . . . you can take her to the lumber aisle at Lowes . . . offer her the Whopper Jr you picked up at Burger King on the way.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Histati (Mar 19, 2021)

A resin shed was $469 last year, this year it is $699. That is huge jump in price for 4x7 plastic shed 
Inflation costs going up on everything


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm an economic dummy, in fact I barely passed the high school economics class required to graduate.

With that as a preface, I ask this - are maunfacturers/wholesalers getting ready for the drop in value to come when Biden starts printing money to cover all that has been spent and all that is planning to be spent? He wants a three trillion dollar "infrastructure" bill.

Remember - Obama devalued the dollar by 25% with his "quantatative easing".


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

You're a few months too late on noticing the prices, back in July I seen OSB that goes for $11 max for sheet go to $23 a sheet and now is $39 a sheet. With these numbers I have decided to build next structure out of drill pipe (next month) stock up extra cause I need to put solar panel rack up and build what I can from concrete.
Batteries I was looking at for my solar system went from $3000 to $5400 in past month. 
I believe these stimulus checks are killing us not helping us.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm an economic dummy, in fact I barely passed the high school economics class required to graduate.
> 
> With that as a preface, I ask this - are maunfacturers/wholesalers getting ready for the drop in value to come when Biden starts printing money to cover all that has been spent and all that is planning to be spent? He wants a three trillion dollar "infrastructure" bill.
> 
> Remember - Obama devalued the dollar by 25% with his "quantatative easing".


For the Great Reset, they must make the dollar worthless. A big part of the reset is a global digital currency. Part of their mantra is "You'll own nothing and be happy"


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

@rice paddy daddy 

Economically we have a few things in play;

Domestic manufacturers are anticipating an influx of Chicom and foreign goods and are attempting to match supply with demand at about 90%. Just enough to keep the flow of orders and not enough to flood the market with goods.

Fuel Prices have gone up and are expected to increase further

Over 12 years of printing money has finally caught up with us

To a lesser degree, the "free money" stimulus packages are out there and sellers of some goods/services are taking advantage of it

Fear of Minimum Wage increases. More and more companies are attempting to automate and that costs money in the short term, they are passing it on to the consumer


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> Well . . . at least when your wife says she wants you to take her somewhere expensive for dinner . . . you can take her to the lumber aisle at Lowes . . . offer her the Whopper Jr you picked up at Burger King on the way.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


That’s funny, but your wife might take it wrong, so be prepared to run away. Make her work for her revenge, and besides, she will get winded pretty quick. You will get exercise, she will get exercise, but it will probably go south from there.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

inceptor said:


> For the Great Reset, they must make the dollar worthless. A big part of the reset is a global digital currency. Part of their mantra is "You'll own nothing and be happy"


I own myself and God is waiting on me to get to Heaven, so that He can redeem me in full. 
The bastards in this world can never have me, since I have been spoken for, and I have a Redeemer already.

And no pretenders are acceptable to me, not the new Caesars for certain. I won’t give up any rights: not to them, not to the soon coming Anti Christ, not nobody. And they can keep their lousy crypto currencies.


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## bsbeprepared (May 6, 2020)

I have metal already purchased a few years ago, at great prices. I'm planning on a big picnic shelter and a pole barn house at my getaway. I wish I had bought lumber a few years ago.
This is really going to add to cost.
I have lots of trees I was going to sell, but might have them cut to have lumber.
I have a friend sold his band mill.
We might buy another one. So I can get some lumber.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Chiefster23 said:


> Anybody been to the lumber yard lately to buy wood? HOLY HELL! Prices are crazy. 😳


Haven't been lately but am going this morning. Three sheets of plywood, three 1x4's, two non-removable door hinges, and some lag screws. _deep breath_

Gas is up over 30%. Housing is going up. You can't get out of a grocery store for less than $100 anymore (used to be $80 a week for me). And they tell us inflation isn't happening.

ROFLMFAO!


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Hold assets, fiat dollar will be worth nothing.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Just got back from the lumber yard. Three sheets of 1/2" OSB plywood, $63+/each. Three 8' 1x4's, pine, $6.50 ea. He said the prices are going up daily.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

ItsJustMe said:


> Just got back from the lumber yard. Three sheets of 1/2" OSB plywood, $63+/each. Three 8' 1x4's, pine, $6.50 ea. He said the prices are going up daily.


63$ for one sheet of OSB ? Damn ! I might be rich, I think I have a few sheets.


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## bsbeprepared (May 6, 2020)

Wow, I heard 40, 63 is way too high!


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

This was the cheapest stuff they had. 3/4" was $10 more per sheet (which is what I really wanted but there ya go). They had plenty of it, though; no shortage (yet).

I should add, too, that this is in a rural community and their prices are generally a little bit higher than if I wanted to drive 60 miles to another store that sells it and who knows what their prices are? I am using this for a project that will shore up security (I hope).


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)




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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

I have also noticed looking at the Hoe Depots website lumber is limited in quantities of what you can buy. Thinking about loading up on cinder blocks months before I start building on the house cause they might be next.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Weldman said:


> I have also noticed looking at the Hoe Depots website lumber is limited in quantities of what you can buy. Thinking about loading up on cinder blocks months before I start building on the house cause they might be next.


@Weldman 

Smart move. Do some research on Construction Aggregate Pricing and you should get a trend of what might happen. 

Road Construction contracts are ramping up (or so I hear, I don't track that sector so I only know what I hear) and when roadwork increases the price of aggregate/rock/stone/cement/etc can go through the roof. If I were a betting man, Aggregates might go into short supply sometime this year, if only for a short while.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Latest report from Vulcan Materials, one of the largest aggregate producers









Vulcan Reports Fourth Quarter And Full Year Results


Strong Full-Year Results Reflect Improvements in Aggregates Unit Profitability Solid Earnings Growth Expected in 2021 Vulcan Materials Company (NYSE: VMC), the nation's largest producer of construction aggregates, today announced results for the quarter ended December 31, 2020. Tom Hill...




ir.vulcanmaterials.com


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

Slippy said:


> @Weldman
> 
> Smart move. Do some research on Construction Aggregate Pricing and you should get a trend of what might happen.
> 
> Road Construction contracts are ramping up (or so I hear, I don't track that sector so I only know what I hear) and when roadwork increases the price of aggregate/rock/stone/cement/etc can go through the roof. If I were a betting man, Aggregates might go into short supply sometime this year, if only for a short while.


Thanks, I will be buying 1-4 pallets a month with hearing that till I get about 12 pallets, maybe more.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Lumber will correct. It will not stay this high. 

Building will cease at $8 a 2x4 before long.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Lumber will correct. It will not stay this high.
> 
> Building will cease at $8 a 2x4 before long.


Yes...Ordinarily, I'd agree with you and ultimately, you will be correct. 

But there is something strange going on with Building Materials that hasn't been seen in a long while. 
The manufacturers are manipulating supply more than they ever have. And manufacturing costs are rising faster than they every have. 

I'm not ready to blame inflation for everything but something is just not right...


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

It’s going to shut building down in south Alabama. People can’t afford $8 2x4 here. It’s going to push up existing home prices too.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I PAID $9.72 each FOR 3 Stud grade 2 x 4 x 8's yesterday


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I’m building a small platform for mounting a new mini-split sytem and I used chain link fence posts instead of 4x4s. Soon I will be constructing a larger mounting system for my solar panels and I will be using steel fence posts instead of treated wood posts. I will probably be buying rough cut wood from a local sawmill instead of store bought treated to try to save a few bucks.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

An excellent article about the construction industry









Top Challenges for Builders: Building Materials Prices in 2020 & 2021 | Eye On Housing


Building materials prices topped the list of problems builders faced in 2020 and is expected to return to the number one spot in 2021, according to special questions on the December 2020 survey for the NAHB/Wells Fargo Housing Market Index. The survey results showed that building materials was a...



eyeonhousing.org


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Chiefster23 said:


> I’m building a small platform for mounting a new mini-split sytem and I used chain link fence posts instead of 4x4s. Soon I will be constructing a larger mounting system for my solar panels and I will be using steel fence posts instead of treated wood posts. I will probably be buying rough cut wood from a local sawmill instead of store bought treated to try to save a few bucks.


I built a similar platform for my mini split unit. 

A huge stump was close by and too close to other things to easily get a stump grinder in there. 

So I thought that the stump would rot away then the unit would fall over. 

So I sunk two 4x4 posts 48” into the ground and concreted them in.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Here’s the one I built.








I added rubber feet to dampen vibration, if it had any. This is the compressor.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

I plan on building a cover for it and to fill in the stump hole as it rots away. I would’ve used concrete if it hadn’t been for that stump. The hardware you see is stainless steel. Posts last a good 20 years here.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I paid $27.81 for 3 stud grade 2 x 4 x 8's OTD on Tuesday to build a O/B motor stand that went with the motor last night.


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## bsbeprepared (May 6, 2020)

I started planning a greenhouse lean to. This is for a in between inside garden plants and planting them outside, when plants get 14" high I have to move in and out building. I live in a frost prone area.
I checked with Lowe's 4x4x8. $15.00.
There was no way I'm giving that. I was at my local amish greenhouse supply place and asked where to buy lumber.
I knew of numerous amish lumber places in the area, but he told me his supplier. It was off beaten path,
I arrived there, he had a band mill. I asked about 4x4 x8 poplar, they were $5.25 each. 2x4 were $2.35. Each.
Yes they are not treated, but I'm hitting 60, I'm not building it for my kids! I'm not supporting them, I raised them right! If I have a good 15 or 20 left, maybe it still will be standing. I actually plan to sell plants when I retire and will have to build a real one later, this is spur of moment. The amish in my area are worth a lot, to preppers.
I have a getaway in another county, I'm going to build a nice camping
House, and now I know where to buy the lumber! I already have the metal.
It turned out to be a good prepping day!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

It seems that every day that passes includes another increase in Building Materials prices.

If and when this market starts to fall, it will fall fast and hard. Housing values will plunge and the foreclosure and mortgage industry may see another disaster like 2008/09


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Slippy said:


> If and when this market starts to fall, it will fall fast and hard. Housing values will plunge and the foreclosure and mortgage industry may see another disaster like 2008/09


Sadly, I think that's part of the plan.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

bsbeprepared said:


> I started planning a greenhouse lean to. This is for a in between inside garden plants and planting them outside, when plants get 14" high I have to move in and out building. I live in a frost prone area.
> I checked with Lowe's 4x4x8. $15.00.
> There was no way I'm giving that. I was at my local amish greenhouse supply place and asked where to buy lumber.
> I knew of numerous amish lumber places in the area, but he told me his supplier. It was off beaten path,
> ...


You could use some 1” pvc. Or 3/4 if your doing a small one.,


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## bsbeprepared (May 6, 2020)

I agree you are right. I had one years ago, it was a store bought. High winds destroyed it. The only reason I went this way was, I bought 5/16 thick polycarbonate sheets. I will need to build a real greenhouse, in about 3 yrs. This one will be attached to a poured concrete wall on a detached building. The sheets were cheaper than a roll of 6mil.
It's only for about a month, of use..but I'm sure I will use it more later. I'm just experimenting a different way. I have a indoor grow box, that allows plants to get over a foot. My biggest problem is my late frosting area. I have neighbors that live 400yrd away, they don't get frost, and I can have a garden destroyed. One year I lost a big garden on may 15, it broke me from being any earlier. I do take chances , but just don't put out a entire garden anymore until late may. We had a entire month of april with no frost, I got brave and put everything out. My mistake.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I’m totally fed up with the crazy lumber prices charged today. We have several sawmills and numerous farmers in the area that sell rough cut. I’ll be buying that until the prices return to something approaching normal. And if you need to put a post in the ground, consider using chain link fence posts. Cheaper and galvanized steel will outlast the treated posts.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)




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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

10 Lumber Producers make up over 60% of Lumber market in the US. If they wanted to, and I suspect they do, they will curtail production to keep prices high the remainder of the year. 

In 2021, the cost to frame the average sized new home in the US has more than doubled in the past few years and is expected to triple in cost (from 2017) before year end.

When the market corrects, lots of new homebuyers will be immediately upside down on the value of their home vs their current mortgage. Yikes!


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## Megamom134 (Jan 30, 2021)

Biden says this huge corporate tax he is imposing won't hurt us, didn't he ever take economics? They just pass it on down to the customers in increased prices in everything. Trickled on down to us the taxpayers. Thanks Joe.


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## Any Beastie (Mar 19, 2021)

My son interns with a carpenter and says they see the prices going crazy. We buy from the Amish and it's cheaper than home poo poo (as my sons Russian colleague calls it).


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## Any Beastie (Mar 19, 2021)

Slippy said:


> I'm not ready to blame inflation for everything but something is just not right...


I've got an idea for ya. Look at who's in office. Look at the great reset. Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything but I am.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Any Beastie said:


> I've got an idea for ya. Look at who's in office. Look at the great reset. Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything but I am.


IMO there has been a clown of some variety in office since Ronald Reagan.

ALL of them......including Trump. Trump couldn’t keep his mouth shut.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Ranger710Tango said:


> IMO there has been a clown of some variety in office since Ronald Reagan.
> 
> ALL of them......including Trump. Trump couldn’t keep his mouth shut.


That's what got him elected the first time. People liked that someone was finally telling it like it is.
Fraud got Biden installed this last time.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Slippy said:


> 10 Lumber Producers make up over 60% of Lumber market in the US. If they wanted to, and I suspect they do, they will curtail production to keep prices high the remainder of the year.


I'm a member of a contractor's forum.
There are lots of stories that the mills are sitting on yards full of product to keep the prices high.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Robie said:


> That's what got him elected the first time. People liked that someone was finally telling it like it is.
> Fraud got Biden installed this last time.


Trump would’ve been re-elected if he could’ve kept his mouth shut.

He lost a lot of votes by what he said vs what he did.

But, he banned bump stocks and made them illegal. He lost my support when he did that. Plus he can’t control himself, that’s not a good quality for a President.

There’s fraud in every election. I don’t believe fraud played a deciding factor in this election, no more than Russia played a part in the 2016 elections. 

It’s all just BS to claim a reason that the current President is illegitimate.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Ranger710Tango said:


> He lost my support when he did that.



One word.
Wow!


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Ranger710Tango said:


> I don’t believe fraud played a deciding factor in this election


With all due respect, you are not well informed on this matter.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Trump would’ve been re-elected if he could’ve kept his mouth shut.


Trump was standing in the way of the great reset...the NWO.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Trump would’ve been re-elected if he could’ve kept his mouth shut.
> 
> He lost a lot of votes by what he said vs what he did.
> 
> ...


So you traded bump stocks which nobody gives a crap about for total gun grabs, socialism and green garbage. Brilliant Opie! I see you share the same opinions as your Canadian friends at DSB


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

I had never heard the term "bump stock" before it hit the news.
Lots of gun guys never had either.
I/we had to look it up.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Robie said:


> I had never heard the term "bump stock" before it hit the news.
> Lots of gun guys never had either.
> I/we had to look it up.


I made my own back when they first hit the market. Fun toy to blow thru stupid amounts of ammo. Pretty much useless for anything else. No fighting value at all.


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## Megamom134 (Jan 30, 2021)

I have been watching craigslist under materials and getting used or extra lumber supplies when I can. I am also going to build another small hot house for my plants.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Ranger710Tango said:


> ALL of them......including Trump. Trump couldn’t keep his mouth shut.


Aren't you glad we now have a president that barely can talk? Our economy is doing sooo much better now. Gas prices have doubled, lumber prices are skyrocketing, food prices are rising faster than ever. Yup, so much better with orange man gone.

And people are so excited about it that they are coming here in record numbers, even as companies are making plans to move manufacturing out of the country. Kinda like Ford moving to Mexico.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Ranger710Tango said:


> .
> 
> So I sunk two 4x4 posts 48” into the ground and concreted them in.


Congratulations, you just shortened the life span of your posts considerably by immersing the butts in concrete. The chemicals will eat that wood in a few years.
Especially now that CCA treating is illegal.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Congratulations, you just shortened the life span of your posts considerably by immersing the butts in concrete. The chemicals will eat that wood in a few years.
> Especially now that CCA treating is illegal.


The butts aren’t in the concrete. Only at the top foot where the posts meet the ground are they in concrete. That’s where the concrete offered the most support. 

There’s gravel in the bottom of the hole.

The posts are rated for direct ground contact. 👍


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

inceptor said:


> Aren't you glad we now have a president that barely can talk? Our economy is doing sooo much better now. Gas prices have doubled, lumber prices are skyrocketing, food prices are rising faster than ever. Yup, so much better with orange man gone.
> 
> And people are so excited about it that they are coming here in record numbers, even as companies are making plans to move manufacturing out of the country. Kinda like Ford moving to Mexico.


Neither candidate was appealing to me.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Neither candidate was appealing to me.


Understood. But life should be better for you since you don't have to listen to him. The higher prices for everything is a small price to pay for someone of your stature.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

inceptor said:


> Understood. But life should be better for you since you don't have to listen to him. The higher prices for everything is a small price to pay for someone of your stature.


We all have bills to pay, I’m no different.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Ranger710Tango said:


> We all have bills to pay, I’m no different.


I know. It's just that the higher bills affect some more than others. Some will have to cut back on essentials as the prices continue to increase. But it is what it is.


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## Megamom134 (Jan 30, 2021)

inceptor said:


> I know. It's just that the higher bills affect some more than others. Some will have to cut back on essentials as the prices continue to increase. But it is what it is.


My next big purchase is going to a air conditioner. I don't have central air and both my window units broke last year. I want AC as long as I can get it. That is what my income tax is going for if I get any.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Megamom134 said:


> My next big purchase is going to a air conditioner. I don't have central air and both my window units broke last year. I want AC as long as I can get it. That is what my income tax is going for if I get any.


Consider a mini split system. Very energy efficient and economical to install.

I grew up without AC until I was 15 in the Deep South. I know about heat.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Robie said:


> I'm a member of a contractor's forum.
> There are lots of stories that the mills are sitting on yards full of product to keep the prices high.


That in itself is not a good indicator of Mills keeping the prices high by keeping product in their yard. Mills are at the mercy of the Tree to produce what they need. If logs arrive that only yield 2x4 10's then they will produce what the trees yield. The customer will rarely buy a full truck load of 1 product, they will specify a random length load. 

But I get your point and it may be part of the reason.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> That in itself is not a good indicator of Mills keeping the prices high by keeping product in their yard. Mills are at the mercy of the Tree to produce what they need. If logs arrive that only yield 2x4 10's then they will produce what the trees yield. The customer will rarely buy a full truck load of 1 product, they will specify a random length load.
> 
> But I get your point and it may be part of the reason.


I unloaded many a rail road flat car that was random length units of SPF and SYP. 2X4 and 2X6 mostly.
The brands that stick in my brain were Tolko and West Fraiser on the SPF from British Columbia, although there were many more brands.
The SYP cars would be a combination of length, width, and grade, from #2 to Select Structural. From 2X4 thru 2X12.


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## bsbeprepared (May 6, 2020)

The amish done me right this week on lumber. 4x4x8' poplar $5.25 each. I got 8.
2x4x8' $ 2.35 each they were oak, and planned. I got 15. 
Go check lowes. No way I could pay that for a greenhouse.


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## bsbeprepared (May 6, 2020)

I also ordered 90ft of 6x6 oak for $193.00. This is for a small retaining wall. 8 ft at lowes started at $48.00 each.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I called guy I know who is a Sales VP of a large Forest Resource company and he said;

Mills are still running behind on log deliveries
Mills are undergoing Capitol Expenditures to become less reliant on labor
Mills are experiencing higher fuel costs, higher health care costs, higher overall transportation costs, a shortage of trucking, and a shortage of support personnel (Customer Service, Staff Accountants, Staff Administrators, Forklift Operators, Drivers, Machine Operators)

He also laughed and reminded me that since I left the Wood Business, Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc have become much better negotiators! MUCH BETTER!


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

My advice, get away from just building with wood and learn how to build with metal or bricks and concrete. The lumber here sucks so bad I can swing a 4 x 4 against a tree and snap it, they can keep the warped twisted wood.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Slippy said:


> I called guy I know who is a Sales VP of a large Forest Resource company and he said;
> 
> Mills are still running behind on log deliveries
> Mills are undergoing Capitol Expenditures to become less reliant on labor
> ...


I see one of the reasons is lack of personnel.

Can’t find anyone to work.....I’ve heard that before recently. 👍


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I have zero experience with steel framing. Is it possible to completely frame out a house with steel? Would it be cheaper that wood in todays market? Do the two natetials compare in strength?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Ranger710Tango said:


> I see one of the reasons is lack of personnel.
> 
> Can’t find anyone to work.....I’ve heard that before recently. 👍


Its easy to look up and interesting in what they plan to do. It's called the 4th Industrial Revolution. Everyone is working towards going AI. Many state governments have limited work capacity because of the scamdemic. Then the govt authorizes UIB for more than they made working.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Chiefster23 said:


> I have zero experience with steel framing. Is it possible to completely frame out a house with steel? Would it be cheaper that wood in todays market? Do the two natetials compare in strength?


Excellent Question! And one that is being discussed quite a bit in today's market.

Here are the factors involved;

Yes, it is possible to frame a residential structure in steel. In a perfect world, a Steel Framed Home is an ideal way to build a strong, rot resistant, termite resistant and structurally sound house.

Problems lie in the following;

Labor; Wood Framers and Metal Framers have different skill sets
Engineering; Engineering the structure is different with wood vs metal. So a set of house plans designed by an Architect and Stamped by a Structural Engineer for Wood will need to be Re-Engineered and drawings produced. You just can't start substituting Metal Framing for Wood. (Well, you can but you may not to live in it). The cost to Re-Engineer a set of plans is not cheap in a busy building market.

As you go thicker in Steel (Gauge) the price goes up. DRAMATICALLY.

But, if you start from scratch and design the home using metal framing, get the proper Structural Engineering stamp and get Commercial Construction labor to build it, you've got a great home!

I'll be more than glad to field more questions!


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

My better half wants to expand the back deck. I basically told her not this year.

For giggles, took a walk through Lowe’s. Shocked that Trex was the same as last year.


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## 65mustang (Apr 4, 2020)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Trump would’ve been re-elected if he could’ve kept his mouth shut.
> 
> He lost a lot of votes by what he said vs what he did.
> 
> ...


Wow. A real honest to goodness Biden/Harris and more than likely a Obama voter in our midst.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Trump would’ve been re-elected if he could’ve kept his mouth shut.
> 
> He lost a lot of votes by what he said vs what he did.
> 
> ...


Trump was the first President in history to get more votes in his second election bid and still lose.

You mean to tell me you honestly believe Biden, who ran almost zero campaign and stayed in the basement got more votes than Trump?

I live in Liberal CA and in 2016 you might see a handful of Trump stickers on cars. In 2020 they were everywhere. Not to mention Trump flags and people wearing MAGA hats.

Democrats have been cheating for years. In 2020 they perfected it. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Histati (Mar 19, 2021)

Alternative building material bamboo

I notice a few homes have planted it, I have no idea why someone would think it would be a good idea to plant it on there property! It literally consumes your land, it doubles every year and grows 30-40’ canes 2-3” thick.

With the proper skill you can build anything with it. I don’t think I would try building a deck but it could be done, also I wouldn’t want my back yard to start looking like a karate dojo. Parrot heads would like it for the tiki bar look but that’s not for me. 

What I want to do is find someone that would gladly have you come and cut down canes for free and use them for smaller projects like building a garden fence, use the poles for trellises and raised beds. 

Canes would be cut down with cordless saw, cut to 10’ lengths and heat treated or chemically treated to last for decades


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Sasquatch said:


> Trump was the first President in history to get more votes in his second election bid and still lose.
> 
> You mean to tell me you honestly believe Biden, who ran almost zero campaign and stayed in the basement got more votes than Trump?
> 
> ...


Ok, now you’ll need to prove that in court. 

You’ll need a little more evidence than testimony that you saw a lot of bumper stickers.

The republicans challenged but failed. 

Vice President Pence agreed that he lost the election. 

Every 4 yrs the losing side claims fraud......And that’s perfectly fine they believe that to me, might even be true.

That sums it up for me, you get the last words. 👍


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## Histati (Mar 19, 2021)

Voter fraud is real, we seen it first hand.

Fiancé went to vote in 2020. Someone else signed her name in 2018, someone else casted a vote in her name. We don’t know who they voted for but it made it clear that no mater what we will vote in every election, not just the big ones.

I believe both sides have tactics on gaming the system. The Dems just perfected it this time around.

Voter laws for each state must be strictly upheld in order to stop fraud.

To be fair to op this off rails


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

One could always ram tires like in how Earthships are built using a sledge hammer  or one could go with cob for home or better yet sandbags.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Ok, now you’ll need to prove that in court.
> 
> You’ll need a little more evidence than testimony that you saw a lot of bumper stickers.
> 
> The republicans challenged but failed.




If you would, please supply a list of courts that heard the cases.
Maybe if you could supply transcripts of testimonies given by everyone involved, including the judges, prosecution and defense....and the judge/jury decisions.
We all would love to read through them and see how they came to the conclusions they did.
I'm sure all this information is available on-line.
Thanks in advance.


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## agmccall (Jan 26, 2017)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Ok, now you’ll need to prove that in court.
> 
> You’ll need a little more evidence than testimony that you saw a lot of bumper stickers.
> 
> ...


Plenty of evidence. Problem is, courts refuse to hear it. They all said no. What sums it up for you is something that the great economist Thomas Sowell said

"It is futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance"

al


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

agmccall said:


> Plenty of evidence. Problem is, courts refuse to hear it. They all said no. What sums it up for you is something that the great economist Thomas Sowell said
> 
> "It is futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance"
> 
> al


I guess Trump appointed the wrong judges then. He picked 3......and that’s just on the Supreme Court. 









List of federal judges appointed by Donald Trump - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org





I choose not to live in denial, Trump lost and even the Vice President agreed. 

What do you plan to do about the fraud in elections ?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Ranger710Tango said:


> I guess Trump appointed the wrong judges then. He picked 3......and that’s just on the Supreme Court.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It does appear that many of the Federal Judges confirmed by the Senate during the Trump administration are turning out to not be as conservative and constitutionally minded as everyone was led to believe.

And I said it during the confirmation hearings on the 3 Supreme Court appointees, that they are all a product of the Washington DC Sewer and I have Zero faith that they will uphold the Constitution as it was written. Political hacks they are.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Slippy said:


> It does appear that many of the Federal Judges confirmed by the Senate during the Trump administration are turning out to not be as conservative and constitutionally minded as everyone was led to believe.
> 
> And I said it during the confirmation hearings on the 3 Supreme Court appointees, that they are all a product of the Washington DC Sewer and I have Zero faith that they will uphold the Constitution as it was written. Political hacks they are.


Practically everyone that Trump hired in his administration quit the job.......

Why was that ?


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

To me it's pretty plain. NO judges wanted to get involved with a case that could subsequently contribute to overturning an election.
The reason it's plain to me is because...no judge allowed any of the cases to go forward.


If someone was raped and beaten but a judge refused to hear the case, does that mean no rape or beating took place?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Practically everyone that Trump hired in his administration quit the job.......
> 
> Why was that ?


OOOH OOOOH I KNOW THE ANSWER!

But the answer is multi-layered. Below in no particular order;


Trump or his advisors chose some very bad/incompetent candidates
Some candidates bowed to politically correct pressure
Some candidates were threatened with crimes and jail time
Some realized it was an uphill battle that they were ill prepared to wage
Some were "plants" from previous socialist regimes
Some were liars


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Slippy said:


> OOOH OOOOH I KNOW THE ANSWER!
> 
> But the answer is multi-layered. Below in no particular order;
> 
> ...



In my business I do the hiring and firing. I’m responsible for who I hire regardless of how they perform. 

I think the President of the United States should be held to that standard as Well. 

In my opinion the American people had two bad choices in 2020, like most elections. 

The biggest factor in Trump losing was his inability to keep his mouth shut and keep his cabinet in order. He had more turn over than a McDonald’s. 

Personally I wouldn’t do any business with Mr Trump where I extended credit. Read up on Mr Trump.

That said, the current administration is a total Shit show. ✌


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

There are a few things we know.

1. For some reason the courts won't even look at the evidence let alone rule on it. They just refuse to hear it.
2. Twice now the left have openly admitted a good part of what they did and are bragging about it. First in Time and the second was CNN with Project Veritas.
3. After HR1 is passed, the states will have no say in how any election is run. 
4. We've been told the Constitution is not absolute. Boy won't this be interesting. But the Great Reset doesn't need or want the Constitution.


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## Tanya49! (Jun 20, 2020)

Slippy said:


> 10 Lumber Producers make up over 60% of Lumber market in the US. If they wanted to, and I suspect they do, they will curtail production to keep prices high the remainder of the year.
> 
> In 2021, the cost to frame the average sized new home in the US has more than doubled in the past few years and is expected to triple in cost (from 2017) before year end.
> 
> When the market corrects, lots of new homebuyers will be immediately upside down on the value of their home vs their current mortgage. Yikes!


Hmm! I had a dream about that in 2008! Say it ain’t so.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

On another forum I frequent, we had the discussion a long time ago about administrative turn-over.
There was an article some pundit wrote that posited...President Trump put certain people in place because of some skill set or knowledge they had of a certain situation or needing attention. When it was accomplished, that person was let go and the next person brought in to handle something different.
I doubt it's true in all cases but it makes perfect sense when you think about Trump and getting results.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Robie said:


> On another forum I frequent, we had the discussion a long time ago about administrative turn-over.
> There was an article some pundit write that posited...President Trump put certain people in place because of some skill set or knowledge they had of a certain situation or needing attention. When it was accomplished, that person was let go and the next person brought in to handle something different.
> I doubt it's true in all cases but it makes perfect sense when you think about Trump and getting results.


I'll agree with that Robie.

Also, by now, we all know that the Sewer of Washington DC and The Federal Government sadly CANNOT be run like a business even tho it should.

Too many evil forces at play to allow basic business fundamentals to work. FUBAR


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Back to Lumber Prices;

Supply and Demand play a large role, I'm not denying that.

BUT, government has played an intrusive role in pricing/cost of far too many goods and services.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Ok, now you’ll need to prove that in court.
> 
> You’ll need a little more evidence than testimony that you saw a lot of bumper stickers.
> 
> ...


Just because the courts refuse to look at the evidence doesn't mean there was no evidence to see.

I don't care what side you're on or who you voted for but you, as an American, should be highly alarmed at how much all three branches of government have been corrupted and politicized. Their lack of doing their job because they have been compromised may have fallen your way this time soon or later it will not. 

"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

I actually made a post then realized I was giving you the last word. So I edited this post.

I also messaged the OP apologizing for getting off topic. 

Sorry about that. ✌


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## 65mustang (Apr 4, 2020)

Slippy said:


> OOOH OOOOH I KNOW THE ANSWER!
> 
> But the answer is multi-layered. Below in no particular order;
> 
> ...


Some were frequent fliers on Epstein airlines.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Practically everyone that Trump hired in his administration quit the job.......
> 
> Why was that ?


Plenty of people have already resigned or been asked to leave from the Biden admin. Its actually pretty typical for all administrations. The reason you dont hear about it with regards to Biden is the propaganda machine known as the media dont talk about it.

At least in Trumps defense he was new to Washington and didnt know all the players so he might of picked some bad apples. Biden, on the other hand, has been there for 47 years. He should know better. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Nick (Nov 21, 2020)

Ranger710Tango said:


> In my business I do the hiring and firing. I’m responsible for who I hire regardless of how they perform.
> 
> I think the President of the United States should be held to that standard as Well.
> 
> ...



I guess I'll kick this dead horse again. Trump received more votes in 2020 than any sitting president in history, millions more than he had in 2016. So he didn't lose any votes, not a single one, he gained them. 

In the meantime Biden ran the most pathetic campaign in US history but we're supposed to believe that he received more votes than anyone who's ever ran for president?

On election night 2020 it played out almost identical to 2016. By midnight Trump had it locked up and all the mainstream media were acting the same way they did in 2016.

Then all of a sudden they just stopped counting votes in most of the swing states without any advanced notification. Fast forward to several days later with nothing changing and then all of those states start to swing towards Biden. 

Anybody who watched this unfold and didn't at least think there might be something going on is either too stupid to see it or just had their heads up their ass.

And as far as Pence admitting that they lost, (that you feel the need to keep mentioning) it doesn't mean anything. He was just playing the typical DC politician. I can pretty much guarantee you that he didn't actually believe that to be true, he just knew they weren't going to be able to do anything about it so he decided to let himself slip down the memory hole instead of being persecuted by the mainstream media for the rest of his life.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Nick said:


> Anybody who watched this unfold and didn't at least think there might be something going on is either too stupid to see it or just had their heads up their ass.


You wouldn’t stand in front of me and say that to my face. That I promise. 

You need to learn respect before you start mouthing off about me and others opinions. Just because people don’t agree with you doesn’t make them stupid or their head up their ass. 

You also need to read the rules of the forum.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Nick said:


> I guess I'll kick this dead horse again. Trump received more votes in 2020 than any sitting president in history, millions more than he had in 2016. So he didn't lose any votes, not a single one, he gained them.
> 
> In the meantime Biden ran the most pathetic campaign in US history but we're supposed to believe that he received more votes than anyone who's ever ran for president?
> 
> ...


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## Nick (Nov 21, 2020)

Ranger710Tango said:


> You wouldn’t stand in front of me and say that to my face. That I promise.
> 
> You need to learn respect before you start mouthing off about me and others opinions. Just because people don’t agree with you doesn’t make them stupid or their head up their ass.
> 
> You also need to read the rules of the forum.



You going to preach forum rules to me now, lol. Keyboard commando. And again that one line you pulled out of my quote would only apply to you if........well if it applies to you. 

And I can guarantee you I'd have no problem with saying anything. You come here to troll (whether you realize it or not) and then wonder why everyone argues with you.

At this point even if you do say something that people agree with nobody wants to give you the satisfaction because you've been such a jackass. 

You need to lighten up and shed that paper thin skin you have. In case you haven't noticed I haven't been here much longer than you (even though you have more posts than I do) and I haven't had a problem with anyone besides you, even if I didn't agree with them.

For some reason you feel the need to always be right and make everyone think your a big shot even though your on an internet forum where nobody knows you.

Believe me what your doing is not original. There's trolls all over the internet. Most of them act just like you.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Ranger710Tango said:


> You wouldn’t stand in front of me and say that to my face. That I promise.
> 
> You need to learn respect before you start mouthing off about me and others opinions. Just because people don’t agree with you doesn’t make them stupid or their head up their ass.
> 
> You also need to read the rules of the forum.


I'm watching, as are others, so the rules are basically followed. We tend to be relaxed and not all tied up over every little item.



Nick said:


> Anybody who watched this unfold


Maybe it's just me but I interpret ANYBODY as a general statement, not personal and aimed at someone.


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## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Nick said:


> You going to preach forum rules to me now, lol. Keyboard commando. And again that one line you pulled out of my quote would only apply to you if........well if it applies to you.
> 
> And I can guarantee you I'd have no problem with saying anything. You come here to troll (whether you realize it or not) and then wonder why everyone argues with you.
> 
> ...


I do not need to build a watch to tell you what time it is. No rambling post from me. 


You simply do not like to be told you’re wrong and then when shown proof you still argue. 

I’ve had to fire many people with that same problem. It’s quite common. 

There’s no trolling here. Just stating my opinions and facts with a clear cut difference between the two. 

You like to blur that line,your opinions tend to become fact in your mind. 

Then you try to insult others by telling them they must have their head up their ass if they don’t agree with you. 

So yeah, who’s trolling who ?

Me being rich insults you........you troll yourself buddy👍


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