# Bayonettes?



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I've been off and on with the notion of picking up a bayonette for the AR. I think bayonettes are neat yet question how useful (practical) they actually are. 

Is it a must have to complete the rifle or a not necessary yet nice to have item? Your thoughts?


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

I have a bit of a Curio and Relic problem in that I simply have a soft spot for old battle rifles. For those, I always try and fit the correct bayonette, but for modern rifles I haven't ever had the urge.

I don't think there is a wrong answer to your question. All a matter of what gives ya the warm fuzzies.


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## RedbeardTheZombieHunter (May 12, 2013)

Bayonettes are just like guns, knives, and condoms. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

I was watching a program on the Military Channel the other night and it was about the battle to rid the city of Fallujah of insurgents. The military told the populous they intended to attack and imposed a deadline for all non-combatants to leave, stating they would treat all people remaining after the deadline as enemy soldiers. They proceeded to clear every single building and house on every single street, in some of the worst close quarters combat since Stalingrad. 

In one house an insurgent was holed up in a room with a sunken floor setup, so that shots at center mass were going over his head. So these Marines decide they had to enter the room to finish the fight, and one guy went in and tackled the shooter. His buddy came in to back him up, but could not risk taking a shot while the two men rolled around fighting on the floor. So, he affixed his bayonet onto his M16 and proceeded to stab the insurgent every time he got an opening to stick him. The other Marine took out his own knife and began stabbing the insurgent, and the guy finally succumbed to the multiple stab wounds.

So, I think a bayonet has definite value if the situation gets to the point where you need to stick someone.

And you know what they say: if you get a shot at sticking someone, you better stick them, because if they get a shot at sticking you, they will stick you....


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I was well trained by the Army in The Spirit Of The Bayonet, with both pugil sticks and the M14 rifle. The use of a bayonet mounted on a rifle is not limited to just straight thrusting; it is a system of moves, parrys, slashes, butt strokes, etc. 
I have a small collection of military surplus rifles, and have the proper bayonet for most. Still need to find one for my Mauser K98k.
Even with an empty rifle, if there's a bayonet on the end I can still be deadly at close range.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I put an M-9 bayonet on 2 of my AR''s. The M-9's are easy to pop on/off and gives you an option if you run out of ammo or get in a jam and you are up to your neck in a bad situation.
I have several SKS's and Mosin Nagant rifles with the factory bayonet and that is what gave me the idea for my AR's.

SDF880


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

My bayonet is to my rifle the same as a spare tire is to my jeep or fire extingusher is to my kitchen.

Kinda like the insurance guys say: "Don't leave home without it".

Still got my M1 Garand bayonet from 'Nam, . . . even still got the leather sheath I had a local make me for it.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Thank you...all of you! for the great replies...I've been looking at a basic AR style batonettes, and noticed that there are a several bayonettes that start with the M designation. I assume any of thise would be fine. 

Then there are others of different style made by S&W and Ontario etc, that look different and are considerably more expensive. Lastly there are the imports and historical (whatever that means? ) bayonettes. 

I'm leaning towards the standard issue type bayonette...which (I'm guessing) for a colt LE6920, would be the M9?


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

I have bayonets for both my Mosin and SKS and have one on order that should arrive with my Garand (provided CMP ever gets caught up with orders). I don't plan on letting anyone get close enough that I'll need a bayonet but as has already been said better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. My feeling is if you have a rifle that can be fitted with a bayonet then you should have one for it, think of it as an extra tool in your arsenal. As for which bayonet you should buy, I would go for the correct military issue bayonet for your rifle.

-Infidel


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## vandelescrow (Nov 17, 2012)

I have an M9 bayonet issued to me while I was in the service and allowed to keep. One of my AR's it fits (pre Brady bill) the other it does not fit the bayonet lug on the gas block. The bayonet lug on this rifle is just a few milometers to long and the bayonet will not lock on to it. If you can see if it fits before you buy.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I believe it's the M7 and not the M9 that is or was the original bayonette for the M16/AR15 pattern rifles. The M9 came along later in 1984. So it is actually an M7 that I'm looking at getting, or more specifically an M7-B. I have a line on a used one (military surplus?) supposedly in good condition (we'll see). I agree it's better to have it and never need it that to need it not have it.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Most bayonets I have seen are high quality cutlery. I may not ever engage in a bayonet fight but a good quality piece of cutlery has many uses.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I was somewhat supprised at the cost...I didn't think they'd cost as much as they do...especially the surplus ones. 50 bucks was the least I found one for (M7) and well over 200 buck the most expensive (M9). With the one offs (questionable origin) coming in around 20 bucks. 

The LE 6920 is sometimes refered to as an Mforgery. It's Colts civilian version of the M4's that they produce for the military. Hence the derogatory term. That aside I believe a milspec or surplus bayonette stands the best chance of fitting. We'll see...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Seneca said:


> Thank you...all of you! for the great replies...I've been looking at a basic AR style batonettes, and noticed that there are a several bayonettes that start with the M designation. I assume any of thise would be fine.
> 
> Then there are others of different style made by S&W and Ontario etc, that look different and are considerably more expensive. Lastly there are the imports and historical (whatever that means? ) bayonettes.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the standard issue type bayonette...which (I'm guessing) for a colt LE6920, would be the M9?


I can only bring you up to the 1970's.
M4 bayonet - M1 Carbine
M5 & M5A1 - M1 Garand
M6 - M14 rifle
M7 - M16, M16A1, M16A2
M8 is the designation for the metal/fiberglass scabbard for all the above bayonets
A more recent veteran would have to speak to the M9, that is after my time and I know nothing about it.
Imports are usually lower quality, historical would mean original issue equipment that appeals to collectors and is priced accordingly.
My advice for bayonets for American rifles would be to look for the designation USGI, which stands for US Government Issue. If you think you may ever use it for it's intended purpose, don't get an imported reproduction. A few years ago $39 would get you a USGI M7 with scabbard. Since the Obama administration has been printing money like there's no tomorrow I see they are running about $69 now just for the bayonet.
If you want sticker shock, try pricing an original issue WWII 10" bayonet for a Garand. They used to be well over $100 and that was 7 years ago.

People may think that bayonets don't have a place in modern warfare, but if you are being over run or otherwise caught with an empty magazine and not even a chance to change it, a bayonet could save your life. Or at least buy you a few more moments of life, depending on how deep the crapola is.


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## vandelescrow (Nov 17, 2012)

Just remember having the bayonet on the rifle will change the POI.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

vandelescrow said:


> Just remember having the bayonet on the rifle will change the POI.


On a Mosin Nagant, yes, most definately. 
I don't remember it being an issue on the M14 or M16A1 though, and we shot the M14 out to 500 meters.
Not sure about anything else, but the bayonet fit on my Garand is sloppy enough I doubt it would matter. Never checked it.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

vandelescrow said:


> Just remember having the bayonet on the rifle will change the POI.


I agree, and thats something I'd expect to happen, yet if I'm fixing a bayonet to my rifle, I suspect that the situation would be such that a shift in POI would be the least of my worries...lol


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> On a Mosin Nagant, yes, most definately.
> I don't remember it being an issue on the M14 or M16A1 though, and we shot the M14 out to 500 meters.
> Not sure about anything else, but the bayonet fit on my Garand is sloppy enough I doubt it would matter. Never checked it.


It would be interesting to see if it did, I think it would, maybe not by much...yet still some....I shoot the M1A out to 500 meters and it doesn't take much error for me to miss a 20" gong at that range. I'm a practiced shot but not an expert by any means...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Seneca said:


> It would be interesting to see if it did, I think it would, maybe not by much...yet still some....I shoot the M1A out to 500 meters and it doesn't take much error for me to miss a 20" gong at that range. I'm a practiced shot but not an expert by any means...


Factory iron sights, right?


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Factory iron sights, right?


Yes...NM sights...and I can still use all the help I can get...thats a long ways off, well for me it is...I have no illusions about my sniping ability or lack therof...lol

I'm looking at getting an Ontario 6277 M7-B, I think thats the one for me. The M9 bayonettes from what I read are slightly longer and more knife like. I may eventually get an M9, at current prices they want an arm and a leg for one.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Seneca said:


> Yes...NM sights...and I can still use all the help I can get...thats a long ways off, well for me it is...I have no illusions about my sniping ability or lack therof...lol


I know the rear National Match sight has a smaller apature than a standard M14/M1A, but if the front blade is the same height as standard you can use it as a rudimentary range finder. A man standing upright at 200 meters is the same height as the front blade.
when my eyes were 19 years old I was darn good with an M14, but now that they are almost 65 iI doubt if i could even SEE a man at 500, let alone hit him.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

I see having a bayonette if you've got the rifle setup to fit one. Holding down the fort, bugged in and guarding the area, dealing with scumbags set on robbing you blind, killing anyone who gets in their way and taking advantage of the pillage whether it's cans of food or your wife or daughter, the bayonet on the end of a rifle is an effective tool when things are up close. Bugging out when weight is so important,bayonettes are a heavy, long bladed knife only so useful for common bushcraft tasks which is where I won't be carrying one. In that mindset because I put even focus on bugging out as I do bugging in my knife choices are all smaller bushcraft focus task knives with the exception of the machette which basically will do a similar if not better job of cutting someone up than a bayonette.I always have a knife on me though and trained in knife combat where cutting key points put an end to the conflict pretty fast. Ever notice how sometimes a person can be stabbed dozens of times and still going where a key cut to the right place ends the discussion? I've also gotten rid of my bayonette usgi flash supressor on my M1A (my mainline/bugout rifle) opting for better flash supression and iron sights with a SMith E. direct connect Vortex flash suppressor and hooded GLFS. If it works for you though, that's what matters.



::redsnipe::


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Bayonet can be a useful tool, however it is one more item to carry and there are likely smaller knifes that have other options like a good leatherman.
Honestly I seldom ever used mine in the real world . As a weapon it means you screwed up and let someone get to close.
I can not count how many time some soldier injured them self with a razor sharp bayonet


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

The ontario bayonet I ordered a 6277 M7-B (black) does not fit the colt LE 6920, it's way too friggin short......the problem is the distance between the lug and the birdcage is too great. 

The latch in the handle fits the lug and the ring fits the bird cage. The attachment points are perfect...When installed the bayonet tip projects from the end of the rifle about 4 inches and the ring that should rest around the bird cage rattles around on the barrel near the cutout I can achieve the same effect with a steak knife and duct tape...and saved my money. 

Well that sucks...lol


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## montanero (May 23, 2013)

Anything you add to a gun requires a training curve. You have to judge how likely you are to use it, the reliability of the equipment, your value of your time, and the cost of turning something simple into something more complex.

I had bayonet training in the Army. They said it was psychological training, as statistically they are rarely used in modern war. In the field, in both units in vietnam, we were denighed any knives or bayonets for fear we might kill somebody.

For simple HD use, a bayonet just makes a short gun long, which wasn`t what you hade in mind when you bought the short gun. For some theoreticall civil disturbance, having a bayonet on a gun might help convince an unarmed looter to stay off your property, but it`s a long shot. Usually they are for crowd control, prisoners, etc. Even for prisoners, most of the times plastic ties are a better control than threats of a bayonet.

For me, I would much rather have a backup handgun or a concealedboot knife, or both.


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

I love my sks bayonet. But you're right it does make it like ungodly long compared to normal.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

montanero said:


> I had bayonet training in the Army. They said it was psychological training, as statistically they are rarely used in modern war. In the field, in both units in vietnam, we were denighed any knives or bayonets for fear we might kill somebody.
> 
> For simple HD use, a bayonet just makes a short gun long, which wasn`t what you hade in mind when you bought the short gun. For some theoreticall civil disturbance, having a bayonet on a gun might help convince an unarmed looter to stay off your property, but it`s a long shot. Usually they are for crowd control, prisoners, etc. Even for prisoners, most of the times plastic ties are a better control than threats of a bayonet.


We were issued bayonets along with our M16's in Vietnam, and since my Army outfit was on loan to the Marines I also carried a Kabar.
Granted, here in the US the chances of getting over run are slim to none, but if you happen to be caught at arms length with an empty rifle between magazine changes a mounted bayonet just might buy you a few more moments of life.
And yes, "The Spirit Of The Bayonet" was another Army tool to break down the natural human aversion to killing people besides teaching a useful skill. That skill being the ability to defend yourself with nothing more than a four foot long hunk of wood. It doesn't even need a bayonet on the end to beat someone to death with it. Or, conversely, to defend yourself with empty hands against an oponent armed with a rifle mounted bayonet.
I recieved my training with a substantial wood/steel rifle and bayonet, not an M16.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

The merits of having a bayonet or not having a bayonet, aside where would I find a bayonet adaptor for the carbine (short handguard)? DPMS made a (discontinued?) simple ring like affair with a lug that mounted to the barrel. Perfect...unobtanium

I can find web pictures of the critter and I can find them listed (as no longer available) at places like FGW, CDT and parts4AR's. As it stands now, unless I can find an adaptor. The M7 gets a pass...to that sad and dusty place I send all gear that doesn't quite make the cut...lol


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The rifle or carbine is better as a club or staff than it is as a sword or long reach knife - at least in my hands.
My SKS has a bayonet on it but I wouldn't use it because it is for "poking" and not slashing. The poking takes twice as long to perform as a slashing move and time is very important if there is more than one attacker. It would be better to take out the enemy as soon as you recognize him or her as that - 50 yards is close enough to identify a group or an individual as friend or something else. There is no need to put yourself or your group into danger to "help" a stranger. You send them on their way or kill them before they gett close enough to see what you have or how many there are.
If you can't do that then you need toplan for more trouble than I do.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Bayonets have a long and odd history...Yes...They are better suited to thrusting than slashing...no argument from me on that one. 

The advantage is they provide an extended reach with an edged weapon. In close quarters if you have a jam or out of ammo swinging the rifle like a club may or may not be an option. However thrusting an edged weapon (bayonet) does not require one to have swinging room. 

The move (poke) can be acomplished in very tight quarters. Look at it this way if the military though the rifle would be more useful in close quarters as a club they'd have went with bat handles instead of bayonets...lol


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

On semi auto rifles I dont really see them as being all that pratical. On the older bolt actions or those semis with very limited capacities such as the SKS or M1 Garand I see them as being a bit more practical. I have them for my SKS's and my Mosin's even though many of my guns will accept them and were often issued with them.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

If the bayonet will replace your tactical knife, sure. Otherwise, it's just more weight to carry around. Personally, I don't see the point (no pun intended). Better, I think, to carry a light tactical knife and pack an extra mag for the same total weight.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> If the bayonet will replace your tactical knife, sure. Otherwise, it's just more weight to carry around. Personally, I don't see the point (no pun intended). Better, I think, to carry a light tactical knife and pack an extra mag for the same total weight.


You know? I honestly think a lot of people see it that way...
Of course I could simply spend 500+ dollars and buy myself a long handguard A2 upper so I'd have a proper place to hang my 50 dollar bayonet...or not...lol


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