# Daniels 70th week - How close are we?



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I do not know when!!! But I feel we are close. I can not set dates for when the last 7 years will start - but once the peace treaty is signed... I could layout when the next events will happen

1948 saw Israel reborn as a nation and Israelites headed home... (The regathering was foretold in several different books of the bible).. now thanks to ISIS the Israelites are leaving Muslim countries were they have been for 1,900 years and heading home

Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord will set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, that shall remain, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

the one event that will start the clock ticking will be a 7 year peace treaty. once the 7 year treaty is signed there will be 3 1/2 years before the temple is ruined and a ruler declares himself god.

Dan 9:27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

that one versus shows the start and middle event for the final week (7 years) 
How long before there is a peace treaty??? it has been in the works for several presidents.

SO are we close??? Again I can not set a date.... just remember this

1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.






and a few other things

we now are able to all see (via TV) the 2 dead prophets
We have the ability to CHIP people and tie it to a bank account
We could stop people from buying or selling without a mark/account
there has been a great falling away... the vast majority of christians are secular and care more about what people want then what God wants

people are as foretold

2 Timothy 3:1-5

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

You certainly tied a lot together. Foo for thought.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Thread closed please....


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

FoolAmI said:


> Thread closed please....


????.... say what


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Very thought provoking. Thanks for posting that.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Question? With Will talking about canabalism on another thread, how does that fit in with BiblicalProphsy?

Don't remember that on in sunday school


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> Question? With Will talking about canabalism on another thread, how does that fit in with BiblicalProphsy?
> 
> Don't remember that on in sunday school


ROM .........Will talks about a lot of things from all 4 sides of the topic.

MM........... Interesting find not sure what to make of it......... but quite interesting. What I do know when the long sought peace in the middle east is finally achieved with the peace treaty, it will come about by the doings of the Great Deceiver and will be an unearnest act to set Israel up for an attack 42 months later.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

MM, . . . I'm pretty much in agreement with what you did in the OP.

But peace treaties come, . . . go, . . . get written, . . . broken, . . . re-written, . . . ad infinitim, ad nauseum............

THE one thing that cannot be emphasized too much as being THE harbinger that we are close is the temple. The Temple Israel MUST BE REBUILT. And most scholars are of the opinion it will have to be right up there on temple mount where the Dome of the Rock is today. Not saying the Dome has to be sacked, . . . there is plenty of room up there for it for the temple and the mosque can even stay.........

HOW that can happen in today's climate, . . . I cannot fathom it, . . . but it will happen one day.

Considering that there must first be permission from all to do it, . . . then the actual construction, . . . and it HAS TO BE THERE at the beginning of the 11th chapter of Revelation (which delineates the last 3 1/2 years of earth and earth's occupants), . . . again, . . . most scholars believe it will be standing at the beginning of the 7 years. 

So, . . . short version: forget the treaties, . . . keep your eyes on the Eastern sky, . . . especially the temple mount.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> But peace treaties come, . . . go, . . . get written, . . . broken, . . . re-written, . . . ad infinitim, ad nauseum............
> 
> THE one thing that cannot be emphasized too much as being THE harbinger that we are close is the temple. The Temple Israel MUST BE REBUILT.


But a 7 year peace treaty... ??? Has there ever been a peace treaty that was to expire in 7 years???

yes the temple has to be rebuilt... but before or after the peace treaty???? If the temple is rebuilt before the peace treaty it does not provide us a anchor point for future events! When the treaty is made, it provides us a final time clock and an anchor point.

once the treaty is signed...we how are not in darkness - can KNOW when certain other things will happen

EDIT - nothing in the scriptures tells us that the temple will be before or after the peace treaty... anybody that picks a side on the issue is just adding their BEST GUESS.
If there is a verse that puts the temple before the peace treaty, I have missed it


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

May I have your input from this article kind seer?
This Antichrist will bring false hope and peace to the world, and will do what no one else has ever done- bring Israel and Palestine together. In fact the king will make a 7 year peace treaty with the people and there will be peace for 3 1/2 years. After that the Antichrist will break his pledge and stop the Jews from all their sacrifices, and he himself will set in the temple proclaiming to be God. This is called the 'abomination of desolation' spoken of by Daniel the Prophet.

The 7 year peace treaty

It doesn't say the Temple is built prior to the treaty, but is present 3 1/2 years into it the 7 year treaty.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

OK, I will try to answer the article

Peace treaty between Israel and Palestine.... The bible says the peace treaty will be with MANY... I think that means MANY nations... not one between 2 countries

Now the one holding him back is God
The restrainer is not God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, or the church. The restrainer is Michael (The angel).

I want to toss in a thought I have had... this is not really scripture but just a thought... About seeing the Abomination and fleeing into the mountains.. Jesus says "Mar 13:18 And pray ye that it be not in the winter. "
So, I think it will not happen in winter (Israel winter)... I would think that at least one person will have this prayer answered

and as always... The catching away (Rapture) will not happen before the tribulation. Christians will see the temple rebuilt, the peace treaty signed, the temple made unholy, etc...


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> OK, I will try to answer the article
> 
> Peace treaty between Israel and Palestine.... The bible says the peace treaty will be with MANY... I think that means MANY nations... not one between 2 countries
> 
> ...


Ahhhh and to the great Evangelistic Christian debate.....pre trib., mid trib., post trib. I have read and watched many presentations on the debate. I know which one I prefer to be God's will....... but he hasn't asked me my opinion yet.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm heading back to arf!


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> OK, I will try to answer the article
> 
> Peace treaty between Israel and Palestine.... The bible says the peace treaty will be with MANY... I think that means MANY nations... not one between 2 countries
> 
> ...


:icon_surprised::icon_surprised::icon_surprised:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> But a 7 year peace treaty... ??? Has there ever been a peace treaty that was to expire in 7 years???
> 
> yes the temple has to be rebuilt... but before or after the peace treaty???? If the temple is rebuilt before the peace treaty it does not provide us a anchor point for future events! When the treaty is made, it provides us a final time clock and an anchor point.
> 
> ...


Someone help me out with this, but I think in Islam it is OK to agree to a seven year peace treaty; not for the sake of peace but for the sake of strengthening one's position if it needs it.
It may also be broken whenever it needs to be broken.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact - World War II - HISTORY.com


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

What would be some Biblical evidence..pro or con...that Jesus could possibly return prior to the Temple being rebuilt?


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> (The regathering was foretold in several different books of the bible).. now thanks to ISIS the Israelites are leaving Muslim countries were they have been for 1,900 years and heading home.


That's cool i didn't think about that


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> What would be some Biblical evidence..pro or con...that Jesus could possibly return prior to the Temple being rebuilt?


Bigwheel, to clarify your question one would need to know if you are referring to the second coming to fight the battle of Armageddon or the pre, mid trib (your choice here) "gathering in the sky" of the faithful? In the case of the latter, it is believed the return is not a "feet on the ground" appearance.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> Bigwheel, to clarify your question one would need to know if you are referring to the second coming to fight the battle of Armageddon or the pre, mid trib (your choice here) "gathering in the sky" of the faithful? In the case of the latter, it is believed the return is not a "feet on the ground" appearance.


I agree... his coming for the catching away will not see him have FEET ON THE GROUND


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> What would be some Biblical evidence..pro or con...that Jesus could possibly return prior to the Temple being rebuilt?


Quite honestly, . . . there is NONE, . . . not one, . . .

There are surmisings, . . . or "interpretations" that make it seem barely plausible, . . . but an exact, line for line Bible evidence. It does not exist.

What does exist is this: after Jesus tells about the tribulation, and all the "stuff" happening during it, He starts with "Immediately after .........." and goes on from there.......... This is that passage.

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV) 
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

All other inferences, surmisings, or interpretations of Jesus coming back at any other time are just that, . . . surmisings, inferences, and interpretations. There is NO definitive statement by Him on that.

When you go to nail down the pre-trib folks about their theology, . . . their standard comeback will be "But don't you think............?" This question is far too important to "think" about it, . . . one needs to KNOW, . . . and be certain of what he/she KNOWS.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)
> 29 * Immediately after the tribulation of those days* shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
> 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
> 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall *gather together his elect from the four winds,* from one end of heaven to the other.
> ...


What is said above A+++++

Many people say Paul and Peter preached that Jesus was going to return soon... yet both of them were told by Jesus that they would die before his return... Paul KNEW he was going to be killed in Rome and Peter knew he was going to lead to his death also...

ANY way back to the OP... how close are we to the 70th week.... hard to say but it looks like things are lining up....


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

https://www.raptureready.com/rr-pre-trib-rapture.html

Just one offering.

I am a pre-tribber, as far as I can figure.

To make it clear, that doesn't mean Christians aren't going to not see bad days. They have been persecuted since the very beginning. They still are. If you don't believe me, just ask those who are being slaughtered by the "moderate" Muslims Obama is supporting.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> All other inferences, surmisings, or interpretations of Jesus coming back at any other time are just that, . . . surmisings, inferences, and interpretations. There is NO definitive statement by Him on that.
> 
> When you go to nail down the pre-trib folks about their theology, . . . their standard comeback will be "But don't you think............?" This question is far too important to "think" about it, . . . one needs to KNOW, . . . and be certain of what he/she KNOWS.


Nail down pre-tribers on what, the timing of the 2nd coming? Isn't pre-trib a theory on the timing of the rapture, not the timing of the 2nd coming. Maybe i'm mixed up on my pre-trib and pre-mill terms.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Boots On The Ground


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

FoolAmI said:


> Thread closed please....


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not know when!!! But I feel we are close. I can not set dates for when the last 7 years will start - but once the peace treaty is signed... I could layout when the next events will happen
> 
> 1948 saw Israel reborn as a nation and Israelites headed home... (The regathering was foretold in several different books of the bible).. now thanks to ISIS the Israelites are leaving Muslim countries were they have been for 1,900 years and heading home
> 
> Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord will set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, that shall remain, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.


Don't forget these.
Isaiah 49:12 Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinim.

Chinese descendants of Jews celebrate Hanukkah | The Times of Israel


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not know when!!! But I feel we are close. I can not set dates for when the last 7 years will start - but once the peace treaty is signed... I could layout when the next events will happen ...
> 
> ...the one event that will start the clock ticking will be a 7 year peace treaty. once the 7 year treaty is signed there will be 3 1/2 years before the temple is ruined and a ruler declares himself god.
> 
> ...


It is fine to study about it and all but, I'm not worrying about it. I won't be here. Ya'll can have my preps. (Pre-Trib)


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> Nail down pre-tribers on what, the timing of the 2nd coming? Isn't pre-trib a theory on the timing of the rapture, not the timing of the 2nd coming. Maybe i'm mixed up on my pre-trib and pre-mill terms.


The terms are often confused and used in a broad sense &#8230;. greatly influenced by Hollywood and other media propoganda. From a biblical perspective, here is a broad summary not inclusive of all events and people relative to the forthcoming events. (Mark of the Beast, two prophets, Jewish Nation recognition of the true savior, judgement day, etc.&#8230;.)

I will start at the end and work backwards:

New Millennium - 1000 year reign of all saints on a "New Earth" free of the darkness.

Armageddon - The return of Christ on the earth and battle of Armageddon where the Anti-Christ and Satan are defeated and darkness is destroyed by God.

Tribulation - the immediate 7 year period following the signing of a false peace treaty that will fool the masses, many professed believers, as well as the Jews. This period will be ruled by the Anti-Christ and his sidekick the False Prophet. This false treaty will be broken at the 42 month mark and war will be launched against the Jews and all who are no longer deceived.

Catching Away or Rapture - The claiming of the Bride of Christ (the true believers or the Church) from this Earth. Many believe that all who have professed salvation will be "raptured" to the sky to meet their Savior&#8230;&#8230; in the sky, not on the Earth. There will not be an appearance on the Earth by God. However, most likely this rapture will include the true "overcomers" of the Enemy's agenda of deceit and darkness. Pre, mid or post rapture theology dictates when this will take place relevant to the tribulation period. Timelines for a Catching Away or Rapture? - No Man knoweth the hour &#8230;.

SHTF - Hasn't it started already? An increasingly progressive agenda will continue to get worse with likely many major and catastrophic events taking place that include persecution of all, inclusive of Christians. Many potentials are discussed and noted here on a regular basis on the forum. The false world view of security and safety here in the US will likely be exposed and hardships eminent.

What should we be doing? Be prepared and watchful.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Boss Dog said:


> It is fine to study about it and all but, I'm not worrying about it. I won't be here. Ya'll can have my preps. (Pre-Trib)


What verse(s) support your pre-trib position

and

What if you are mistaken?


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Q- What if you are mistaken? 

A- They'll be here with the rest of us, only they will wonder what the heck didn't happen


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

I think one of the biggest let downs of the end times, and you guys may find this to be absurd, is that Jesus will not debate people at his 2nd coming. I've listened to so many apologetics debates over the years, William Lane Craig was my favorite...it's been pointed out that Jesus was the best apologist of all time, I always think about that...he was the perfect apologist with perfect knowledge and perfect articulation!! When you read the gospels you get a taste of it, his come backs when people tried to trap him were spectacular! Anyway, could you imagine how great it would be to hear him dismantle people like Dawkins and Hitchens? ALL the untouched topics that weren't an issue in Jesus' day...arguments about common descent for example, how great would it be to listen to Jesus take on a dream team of militant atheist debaters, and watch him trap them in logical corners all night? 

I just watched the movie Pawn Sacrifice about Bobby Fischer. He played the Russian world champ at the end, a best of series, and he had this one game in the series that blew people away...in the movie it says that till this day it is considered to be the most brilliant single game of chess that was ever played. Jesus would be that good at every single turn. Could you imagine watching the most brilliant intellectual chess match of Biblical defense ever played? Now that's one that I would order on DVD!!!


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

I happen to be a practicing Buddhist. (No...I'm not bald, and I don't wear orange robes...)

So....you Christians will all disappear in a flash (including my wife), and then I'm one of the people that has to deal with the mess you left behind!

It'll be like the aftermath of Occupy Wall Street! Ugh!

Thanks a lot! /s :icon_surprised:


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

neonoah said:


> Thanks for feeding the "people just NEED to mock christians" proof pile, o creature of peace. So much for the Buddha bizz troll


Don't take it as a mock. Christians and Buddhists are not like the muzzies who will kill you for even the slightest humor.

You should hear the discussions that ensue when my wife and I discuss this subject. Not angry...just funny as heck!

Take no offense. Buddhists are parodied all the time... and we just laugh. Buddhists are not all "Pacifists". I am certainly not.

Cheers


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> What verse(s) support your pre-trib position
> 
> and
> 
> What if you are mistaken?


You and Neoh both need to take a pill and chill out. You demand verses to justify some one else's belief's and Neoh is further on trashing some one who isn't a "Christian". So much for tolerance and brotherly love.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

You want to see God debate Satan after the mutiny that lead to his being cast from Heaven? Based on my reading of the Bible, he intends to give him a reign during the tribulation period and return ......not to talk things out ...... but to end his long running influence by deceit over mankind with war and a final battle...... no discussion intended.



I'd_last_a_day said:


> I think one of the biggest let downs of the end times, and you guys may find this to be absurd, is that Jesus will not debate people at his 2nd coming. I've listened to so many apologetics debates over the years, William Lane Craig was my favorite...it's been pointed out that Jesus was the best apologist of all time, I always think about that...he was the perfect apologist with perfect knowledge and perfect articulation!! When you read the gospels you get a taste of it, his come backs when people tried to trap him were spectacular! Anyway, could you imagine how great it would be to hear him dismantle people like Dawkins and Hitchens? ALL the untouched topics that weren't an issue in Jesus' day...arguments about common descent for example, how great would it be to listen to Jesus take on a dream team of militant atheist debaters, and watch him trap them in logical corners all night?
> 
> I just watched the movie Pawn Sacrifice about Bobby Fischer. He played the Russian world champ at the end, a best of series, and he had this one game in the series that blew people away...in the movie it says that till this day it is considered to be the most brilliant single game of chess that was ever played. Jesus would be that good at every single turn. Could you imagine watching the most brilliant intellectual chess match of Biblical defense ever played? Now that's one that I would order on DVD!!!


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Real Old Man said:


> So much for tolerance and brotherly love.


Tolerance is way overrated. Tolerance gave us hippies and they are only good for punching.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> You and Neoh both need to take a pill and chill out. You demand verses to justify some one else's belief's and Neoh is further on trashing some one who isn't a "Christian". So much for tolerance and brotherly love.


demand is sort of a harsh word, I ask for a verse... most folks have a reason for their beliefs and that is usually based on a verse or a bunch of verses.. it is common for a Christian to ask another Christian for the verse the are using... the whole iron sharpens iron thing

So I think you need to stop being the defender of all things ANTI-Maine-Marine and stop being so feckless

I think everybody on this forum knows that you dislike me and hate anything to do with religion

and I have no control over neoh or what he/she/it says...if you have problems with them... talk to them

gheesh - take you off ignore for 1 day and you end up back in the bin


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

First no one is anti M&M and I definitely don't dislike you.. Might not agree with what you say or like your attitude when someone challenges you on a religious issue, but I'm not anti M&M and I really do hope you get your MRI I know what back pain can be like.

As far as hating anything regarding Religion, that is the farthest thing from the truth. I think it's foolish to base your preparations on some alleged writing of your god, but that's your business. It's when you or anyone else think it's ok to trash someone else's beliefs that I tend to get my hackles up.

So sit back in your easy chair and take a pill and lighten up.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> First no one is anti M&M and I definitely don't dislike you.. Might not agree with what you say or like your attitude when someone challenges you on a religious issue, but I'm not anti M&M and I really do hope you get your MRI I know what back pain can be like.
> 
> As far as hating anything regarding Religion, that is the farthest thing from the truth. I think it's foolish to base your preparations on some alleged writing of your god, but that's your business. It's when you or anyone else think it's ok to trash someone else's beliefs that I tend to get my hackles up.
> 
> So sit back in your easy chair and take a pill and lighten up.


SO you are the defender of the down trodden and those that can not defend themselves??? And asking somebody for a verses, requires that you run to the nearest telephone booth and change into your Super Atheist custom...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> You and Neoh both need to take a pill and chill out. You demand verses to justify some one else's belief's and Neoh is further on trashing some one who isn't a "Christian". So much for tolerance and brotherly love.


This is how we Christians waste time when we aren't wasting time doing the same things everyone else is doing. We split Bible verses, just the Bible says not to do.

Think about it. We follow all the same things everyone else does. We watch professional and college sports, NASCAR, all the most popular TV shows, know pop music by heart, fist fight fellow coworkers over what was the best movie of the year, gossip around the water cooler, follow politics and always vote for evil; yet we still find the time to split hairs and argue over the Bible.

Y'all are just jealous we are able to do more than y'all.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I'll bet I am going to get slammed for displaying a sense of humor, though I am dead serious about our knack for being just as much a part of this world as those who don't know any better.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> SO you are the defender of the down trodden and those that can not defend themselves??? And asking somebody for a verses, requires that you run to the nearest telephone booth and change into your Super Atheist custom...
> 
> View attachment 14809


So now i'm an Atheist cause I don't subscribe to your brand of kool aid.

And what is wrong in standing up for folks that don't believe as some on this site believe.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> So now i'm an Atheist cause I don't subscribe to your brand of kool aid.


At least your wording implies that everyone is drinking one flavor of kool aid in this world of incomplete information. The theory that a gazillion square mile dust cloud of non-organized material, by total random chance started spinning into solar systems, living organisms, stars, gravity, weather patterns, internet forums lol, etc...is probably the grape flavor of kool aid.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> So now i'm an Atheist cause I don't subscribe to your brand of kool aid.
> 
> And what is wrong in standing up for folks that don't believe as some on this site believe.


did they contact you and say please jump in every time Maine-Marine asks a question - were elected to this position or just pick up the costume at the dry cleaner not claimed sale..

If you are standing up for yourself, wonderful.. but it seems like you and a few other make a habit out of defend those that you THINK might be offended when they do not really seem offended.

I apologize for saying you are an atheists..I should have said pagan, heathen, or non-believer.. I am sorry


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> did they contact you and say please jump in every time Maine-Marine asks a question - were elected to this position or just pick up the costume at the dry cleaner not claimed sale..
> 
> If you are standing up for yourself, wonderful.. but it seems like you and a few other make a habit out of defend those that you THINK might be offended when they do not really seem offended.
> 
> I apologize for saying you are an atheists..I should have said pagan, heathen, or non-believer.. I am sorry


If you're not Irish ya'all are heathens.

And I'm offended by your statements.

And again with the calling an individual an uncalled for appelation when you have not one single clue as to what I believe or don't. My comment was it was foolish to base one's preps on a book that may or may not be true.

However if you all do believe in the rapture then why are you prepping if you think the rapture is going to happen soon. Aren't you going with the first boat load?


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> My comment was it was foolish to base one's preps on a book that may or may not be true.


I think the question of 'Is this the end times' is a fun debate, and perhaps added incentive to prep...but i think most Christians in here would still prep if they were to uncover evidence that moved their end times theory to the year 2200. Just this week there is even more banking fears, gold is back at $1,250...the world is a mess! Even if you subtract the end times equation we are looking like Roman citizens in 400 AD lol


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> If you're not Irish ya'all are heathens.
> 
> And I'm offended by your statements.
> 
> ...


I don't rapture , but I'm Irish.English, Scottish and Squarehead with some Lakota mixed in.

What can I do to help you? After some pints and firewater all heck will break out


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

AquaHull said:


> I don't rapture , but I'm Irish.English, Scottish and Squarehead with some Lakota mixed in.
> 
> What can I do to help you? After some pints and firewater all heck will break out


Lord anther mongrel just like me.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> View attachment 14809


Take this down right now! If you don't I will press charges unless you pay me 50k! And stop misrepresenting me! The A stands for King Arklatex! Not atheists!!! The map is my of my lands! I WILL(2) sue you! Just stop! This is criminal!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> If you're not Irish ya'all are heathens.


SO you are calling everybody who is not irish a pagan . I AM offended, as a Scot I always viewed the irish as almost perfect...



Real Old Man said:


> And I'm offended by your statements.


wonderful


Real Old Man said:


> And again with the calling an individual an uncalled for appelation when you have not one single clue as to what I believe or don't.


tis clear buy your kool aid comment that your not a follwoer of my savior and master Jesus Christ.. so to me you are a pagan


Real Old Man said:


> However if you all do believe in the rapture then why are you prepping if you think the rapture is going to happen soon. Aren't you going with the first boat load?


the rapture does nay happen until after a lot of bad things take place laddie.. I see you did not read my OP or my comments on the catching away. no the now, for the rapture.. first a peace treaty and then a temple desecrated.... i think WE will need at least 3.5 years of food... or 1 and the ability to replenish



Real Old Man said:


> My comment was it was foolish to base one's preps on a book that may or may not be true.


I am going with the MAY BE true or actually IS TRUE..is what I believe...and based on that, yes I believe that non believers go to hell where they burn for eternity.. it is not a pleasant thing and I wish it on nobody... as a matter of fact I would encourage everybody to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and follow him with all their heart... yes you... remember that Paul was a non believer until he meet Jesus on the road .. I would hipe that you would also meet Him on the road

----------------

One day an Englishman, a Scotsman, and an Irishman walked into a pub together. The proceeded to each buy a pint of Guinness. Just as they were about to enjoy their creamy beverage flies landed in each of their pints, and were stuck in the thick head. The Englishman pushed his beer away from him in disgust. The Irishman fished the offending fly out of his beer and continued drinking it as if nothing had happened. The Scotsman picked the fly out of his drink, held it out over the beer and then started yelling "spit it out ya bastard, spit it out!"


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> Take this down right now! If you don't I will press charges unless you pay me 50k! And stop misrepresenting me! The A stands for King Arklatex! Not atheists!!! The map is my of my lands! I WILL(2) sue you! Just stop! This is criminal!


dont make me get slippy's attorney after you


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

What do you all think about this alternate interpretation and tips for preppers






It is intersting to see internet sales applied to bible prophesy and prepping.

It links to a site called "Survive the End Days"
http://survivetheenddays.com/nvd_i4/?t=


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> Take this down right now! If you don't I will press charges unless you pay me 50k! And stop misrepresenting me! The A stands for King Arklatex! Not atheists!!! The map is my of my lands! I WILL(2) sue you! Just stop! This is criminal!


What the heck are you talking about, you sound delerius? Get your wits.

Its really hard to tell if you really think that or you are attempting humour.

What the heck does this have to do with a bible prophesy thread?

Were you raised to scream at the top of your lungs everytime someone you don't like posts something online or you see something you don't like?

It is incredibly childish behaviour.

Bible prophesy is a serious topic for some Christians. Have some respect.

I do not appreciate you associating me enforcing my copyright with what appears with totally nonsensical conduct. It is not very nice of you. Have some respect for peoples legal rights also. This is a civil society not a society of shouting children. Try to keep the insane ranting to threads you start instead of ones others start, it isn't very nice to just resort to spouting off. It is simply disrespectful. Why are you disrespecting?

To clarify at no time did I threaten to sue anyone on this website. I informed them of two things 1. The use was unauthorized, and 2. I would begin invoicing them for the unauthorized use, and determine what the Canadian government's position is, regarding claims they gave permission to use one of the images that is government of Canada property. For the record. I am collecting information principally for criminal charges, not suit. Likewise I actively police my copyrights as a publisher, author, model, musician and actor. I only do so when I feel it is contrary to my interests, that is damaging to my interests. It is disrespectful. Have some respect, please. I don't like you associating me with false information, it isn't very nice.

I am not going to wade into this as I consider Bible Prophesy to be a sensitive topic and very difficult to discus these days.

However I ran into the video about the same time as noticing my name in this thread so I thought I might as well share it. 
None the less. Good luck. I personally think everyone gets their own messages and interpretations from the Holy books, not unlike other aspects of life.

I think some fear when they see truth in prophesy when it isn't the story they want.

I think we need to respect anything that is referencing to historic gods, much like existence itself, it is not something left to a scientific reality alone. I am sure us talking about measuring gravitational waves from blackholes merging as reported today would seem as mysterious and strange to the ancients as ancient religion an prophesy seems to us today, it is in many ways an alien language and worlview.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Ok another bible thumper heard from. 

On a different note, just what exactly have you written? Wouldn't mind seeing some of it


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> What verse(s) support your pre-trib position
> 
> and
> 
> What if you are mistaken?


2 Thessalonians 2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Verses 3 & 4 reference the tribulation, when the anti-Christ reveals himself and seizes power.
Verses 6 & 7 are talking about the Holy Spirit who holds back the anti-Christ from taking power until his time.
When the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from earth, the church must go with him. It is promised in Revelation 3:10.

Revelation 3:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

1 Corinthians 3:
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Hebrews 13:
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Because Christians are the temple of God, the Holy Spirit who dwells within, cannot be taken off earth without the Christians going with him.
Christians cannot be left on earth to suffer any part of the tribulation or God's promise is not true.

Revelation 4:
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

When God called John up to "shew thee things which must be hereafter" it was with a "voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet". The trumpet of the bridegroom (Jesus) come to take his bride away (The Church). The church is not mentioned again during the entire telling of the tribulation, in fact not until chapter 19. In a traditional Jewish wedding, the Groom and the Bride stay in the bridal chamber for 7 days (the 7 years of the tribulation).

Revelation 19:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The door of Heaven is opened after 7 years and Christ and his Bride emerge.
Matthew 24 is describing this, the second coming of Christ who is coming to judge and make war on the rebellious of earth, not the rapture. The armies of Heaven following Jesus are the saints of Heaven, Christ's Bride, which has been safely tucked away with the Groom (Jesus) during the whole tribulation.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> Ok another bible thumper heard from.


Well...we are inside of a thread that has a Bible question as the title of the thread, which is inside of a Bible prophecy section Lol. Next we'll find gun owners in the Handgun & Rifle section.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

So we are having this conversation as fellow believers and not as adversaries trying to destroy each other, right??



Boss Dog said:


> 2 Thessalonians 2:
> 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
> 
> Verses 3 & 4 reference the tribulation, when the anti-Christ reveals himself and seizes power.
> ...


Verses 3 & 4 talk about / reference the anti-Christ sitting in the temple as described by daniel and mentioned by Jesus.. which happens mid way through the last 7 weeks..or that is what Daniel says

The holy spirit is in all believers and will be until the end of time... there will be believers going into the millennium so the holy spirit can not be taklen unless it returns right away.

I think that a look at Daniel - Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

12;12 seems to be saying that the dead come awake after Michael stands up and there is going to be a tribulation like never before or after



Boss Dog said:


> Revelation 3:
> 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


keeping them from does not mean taking them out of



Boss Dog said:


> 1 Corinthians 3:
> 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.


not sure how this applies



Boss Dog said:


> Hebrews 13:
> 5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


I agree



Boss Dog said:


> Because Christians are the temple of God, the Holy Spirit who dwells within, cannot be taken off earth without the Christians going with him.
> Christians cannot be left on earth to suffer any part of the tribulation or God's promise is not true.


there is a difference between tribulation and wrath.... Jesus says we shall have tribulation what we will not see is his wrath

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. 
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

when does God's wrath start

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

notice the SOULS (they do not have resurrected bodies yet so no rapture yet) they are asking the father HOW LONG before he avenges them and notice that there are still Christians on earth that God is allowing to be killed for his name... and this is after 5 seals have been opened!!!!

after the 6th seal is open.. people cry out

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 
Rev 6:17 For* the great day of his wrath is come;* and who shall be able to stand?

Now God's WRATH as come... notice right after the 6th seal

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo,* a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; *
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, *These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. *

these are they that came out of THE GREAT TRIBULATION.......

I would ask that you please look at the difference between satan's persecution of Christians and the Wrath of God



Boss Dog said:


> Revelation 4:
> 1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
> When God called John up to "shew thee things which must be hereafter" it was with a "voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet". The trumpet of the bridegroom (Jesus) come to take his bride away (The Church). The church is not mentioned again during the entire telling of the tribulation, in fact not until chapter 19. In a traditional Jewish wedding, the Groom and the Bride stay in the bridal chamber for 7 days (the 7 years of the tribulation).


see above where the folks COME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION -- ie Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, *These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. *

The church is made up of believers..and it is clear there are believers going into the millennium.. there may be a short period of time right after the rapture where there are NO Christian on earth but soon after there will be people that accept Jesus.. why.. because believers go into the millennium



Boss Dog said:


> Revelation 19:
> 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
> 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.


?????


Boss Dog said:


> The door of Heaven is opened after 7 years and Christ and his Bride emerge.
> Matthew 24 is describing this, the second coming of Christ who is coming to judge and make war on the rebellious of earth, not the rapture. The armies of Heaven following Jesus are the saints of Heaven, Christ's Bride, which has been safely tucked away with the Groom (Jesus) during the whole tribulation


Matthew 24 describes the Angels gathering his elect... not sure how you get the above interpretation

HE IS RISEN


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Will2 said:


> What do you all think about this alternate interpretation and tips for preppers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


a sales site


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

So I guess we don't consider the other gospels that were trashed at First Council of Nicaea at t he request of a Roman Emperor

The Apocalypse of Thomas


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> So I guess we don't consider the other gospels that were trashed at First Council of Nicaea at t he request of a Roman Emperor
> 
> The Apocalypse of Thomas


1st you are off topic and are trying to troll the thread... 
2nd if you want to start a thread about the "non gospel books feel free

please refrain from trying to redirect or derail the thread


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> So I guess we don't consider the other gospels that were trashed at First Council of Nicaea at t he request of a Roman Emperor
> 
> The Apocalypse of Thomas


https://www.biblicaltraining.org/bl...-criteria-were-used-determine-canon-scripture


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> 1st you are off topic and are trying to troll the thread...
> 2nd if you want to start a thread about the "non gospel books feel free
> 
> please refrain from trying to redirect or derail the thread


So Thomas wasn't an Apostle? This isn't one of your approved Gospels? And since it might not agree with your beliefs you see fit to determine that I'm trying to highjack your thread.

Problem is God didn't select the Books in the Bible Men did. Men that are fallible and make mistakes. Just ask the Witches that were burned at the stake in Salem Mass.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> So Thomas wasn't an Apostle? This isn't one of your approved Gospels? And since it might not agree with your beliefs you see fit to determine that I'm trying to highjack your thread.
> 
> Problem is God didn't select the Books in the Bible Men did. Men that are fallible and make mistakes. Just ask the Witches that were burned at the stake in Salem Mass.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> So Thomas wasn't an Apostle? This isn't one of your approved Gospels? And since it might not agree with your beliefs you see fit to determine that I'm trying to highjack your thread.
> 
> Problem is God didn't select the Books in the Bible Men did. Men that are fallible and make mistakes. Just ask the Witches that were burned at the stake in Salem Mass.


The Problem with Thomas' book is figured out by any Christian who reads it, and it is clear why the council did not include it. I read it at the behest of someone I know. He is not a Christian, but isn't an atheist, either. He's one of these people who believes in a mixture of a lot of occultic concepts, but his main belief is seething hatred of Christianity. Thomas' book is a favorite among them.

Men, in fact, make mistakes, but the Holy Spirit can guide them.

I'm sorry; I seem to have gotten off track of the thread.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> Ok another bible thumper heard from.
> 
> On a different note, just what exactly have you written? Wouldn't mind seeing some of it


You know what? I am seeing a lot of trolling and intentional flaming in this.

If your intention is to mock or ridicule the topic or those in it, or attempt to derail the discussion because you do not like or believe in the topic, get out. I believe I made it clear at the creation of this subforum that I wouldn't tolerate it.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> Well...we are inside of a thread that has a Bible question as the title of the thread, which is inside of a Bible prophecy section Lol. Next we'll find gun owners in the Handgun & Rifle section.


This might be more than trolling, why do I get the feeling that Real Old Man and MM have duked it out before lol...i think this is 2nd level thinking, I think Real Old Man knows this ain't a battle ground thread, i think he's trying to bait MM by acting like he thinks that MM thinks that he thinks it is the propper place to battle it out...Oh Snap we're now on 4th level thinking hahaha, my head's gonna explode!! MM called your bluff Old Man he didn't bite...time to regroup Old Man, MM is more into open field battles in nuetral threads not covert 'Troll' gorilla warfare lol


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## m14nm (Nov 9, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> MM, . . . I'm pretty much in agreement with what you did in the OP.
> 
> But peace treaties come, . . . go, . . . get written, . . . broken, . . . re-written, . . . ad infinitim, ad nauseum............
> 
> ...


But, what if the temple mount is not the location of the original Temples?? There are new archaeological discoveries claiming it's not. If the new archaeological findings are correct, they could begin construction on the new Temple anytime.

[video]http://www.baseinstitute.org/pages/temple/22[/video]


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> So Thomas wasn't an Apostle? This isn't one of your approved Gospels? And since it might not agree with your beliefs you see fit to determine that I'm trying to highjack your thread.
> 
> Problem is God didn't select the Books in the Bible Men did. Men that are fallible and make mistakes. Just ask the Witches that were burned at the stake in Salem Mass.


The Bible wasn't written by man. It is God's word written down by the hands of men. Letters from Heaven to earth, from God to man. Christ instituted the Church when he gave twelve men teaching authority with regards to faith and morals. They were given a special charism to guard the faith and the Canon of Sacred Scriptures (books of the bible) that were chosen by their lawful successors. In this way, Christ has safeguarded His Church and the bible is completely infallible.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> So now i'm an Atheist cause I don't subscribe to your brand of kool aid.
> 
> And what is wrong in standing up for folks that don't believe as some on this site believe.


I must say I'm curious. Not to derail the thread, but may I ask what your beliefs are? Do you adhere to any religion?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> If you're not Irish ya'll are heathens...


Well known fact. :vs_cool:


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Annie said:


> I must say I'm curious. Not to derail the thread, but may I ask what your beliefs are? Do you adhere to any religion?


First my beliefs are not what are important. What is my concern is that 90% of you are so sanctamonious in your absolute convictions that you and your choice of religion are the only true voice of god and all others are to be condemned to the fires of hell.

As you said, the bible was written by men. No different than the words put down for Confusionism, the Book of Mormon, the Greek Orthodox Church, or any one of the other many recognized religions.

You all get your britches all bunched up in a wad when anyone dares to question what you all put forth never giving a single thought about condemning that person or ridiculing them.

Again as far as what I believe, I've been around this world in many different foreign lands and am fully convinced that I"ve seen the hand of god work on a number of occasions and I can tell you first hand that it wasn't a christian god that intervened. I'm also very sure that an afterlife exists, but don't ask If I believe in St Peter and the pearly gates, heaven and hell or a reincarnation, the jury is still out


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> First my beliefs are not what are important.
> 
> Again as far as what I believe, I've been around this world in many different foreign lands and am fully convinced that I"ve seen the hand of god work on a number of occasions and I can tell you first hand that it wasn't a christian god that intervened. I'm also very sure that an afterlife exists, but don't ask If I believe in St Peter and the pearly gates, heaven and hell or a reincarnation, the jury is still out


Yet you proceed and tell us.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> First my beliefs are not what are important. What is my concern is that 90% of you are so sanctamonious in your absolute convictions that you and your choice of religion are the only true voice of god and all others are to be condemned to the fires of hell.
> 
> As you said, the bible was written by men. No different than the words put down for Confusionism, the Book of Mormon, the Greek Orthodox Church, or any one of the other many recognized religions.
> 
> ...


Yes; we are certain that God is the one and true Creator. We are certain that the one and only path to Him is through Jesus. This being the case, yes; if one is not spending eternity with God, one is spending eternity somewhere that was not even created for humans but for Satan and the others who rebelled.

Sanctimonious? If that is the word you prefer in an attempt to ridicule us - whatever.

You traveled in foreign lands. Fine. You saw things that were supernatural. Fine. You claim these events were not of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; you might be and probably are correct, but as you do not know God, how are you the one to decide? Secret service assigned to counterfeiting are experts in the real deal. That's how they spot a fake.

I pray you accept the gift of Salvation. Yes, there is only one way, and that way doesn't cost you; the price was paid by Jesus. Being that it is a gift, and being that we humans were also given free will, you do not have to accept it. You also do not have to accept the notion that while the Bible was written by man's hand, the writers were inspired by and led by God. Again, you have the God-given right to accept anything you want as the truth. Just remember that there are responsibilities and consequences that go along with decisions and actions.

Good luck to you, sir. Now, what was the topic off this thread? Seems we have wandered around like a drunk Irishman going home from the pub.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> First my beliefs are not what are important. What is my concern is that 90% of you are so sanctamonious in your absolute convictions that you and your choice of religion are the only true voice of god and all others are to be condemned to the fires of hell.
> 
> As you said, the bible was written by men. No different than the words put down for Confusionism, the Book of Mormon, the Greek Orthodox Church, or any one of the other many recognized religions.


Nope, didn't say that, cowboy.



> You all get your britches all bunched up in a wad when anyone dares to question what you all put forth never giving a single thought about condemning that person or ridiculing them.


Me? Where?



> Again as far as what I believe, I've been around this world in many different foreign lands and am fully convinced that I"ve seen the hand of god work on a number of occasions and I can tell you first hand that it wasn't a christian god that intervened.


 How do you know?



> I'm also very sure that an afterlife exists, but don't ask If I believe in St Peter and the pearly gates, heaven and hell or a reincarnation, the jury is still out.


Fair enough.

So, back to the topic, for what it's worth, I think we've got a major chastisement coming soon, then a period of peace (7 years?), then the end.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Annie said:


> So, back to the topic, for what it's worth, I think we've got a major chastisement coming soon, then a period of peace (7 years?), then the end.


I think it's pretty darn close myself. I hope I'm wrong and nothing happens but my gut tells me different.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

We got an ARK here in Kentucky Ya'll can have...

Dinosaurs and all!

My Encounter with Ken Ham's Giant Ark | Christianity Today

Most of us are hoping it gets hit with lightning like giant styrofoam Touchdown Jesus did in Monroe Ohio and burns to the ground....


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Annie said:


> Nope, didn't say that, cowboy.
> 
> Me? Where?
> 
> ...


Think we did derail it for poor old denton.

You take care of yourself


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> I think we've got a major chastisement coming soon, then a period of peace (7 years?), then the end.


This Ms Annie, we most certainly agree on.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> Think we did derail it for poor old denton.
> 
> You take care of yourself


Thanks, RoM.

It's really easy to go down rabbit holes and blind alleys; I understand. You should how conversations in the shop morph within the span of just five minutes!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Logically - 

there can only be ONE ALL powerful God

Since all religions describe their God differently - all of them can be wrong, but they all can not be correct

ROM says he has seen gods hand working but he somehow knows it was not the Christian God... I for one would like to know how he knows that and what act of god was witnessed to show god is real.

also - I think it is a leap to say -1. there was an apolstle named thomas 2. there is a book called the gospel of thomas...so that = thomas wrote that book...


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

You can TAHFFAARD as far as I'm concerned


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> You can TAHFFAARD as far as I'm concerned


You know that is not true... you CAN NOT stop from concerning yourself... Even though you disagree you still have to post to make sure that people know Christians are wrong and that you are right.

of course the funny thing is that you criticize us for THINKING we are RIGHT and at the same time you are guilty of the same thing

I have prayed for you.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> You can TAHFFAARD as far as I'm concerned


I give up, I have no idea what that means.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I am consistently puzzled over folks who acknowledge belief in a Supreme Being capable of getting us out of our graves ..yet deny the same Deity would be capable of putting an accurate Book in our hands. It must be an old folks ailment. A recently deceased old chum voiced the same line of nonsense. Guess he knows for sure now whether he was right or wrong about that. Christianity can only be approached through belief in the Inspiration of the Bible. Inspiration meaning "God Breathed."

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the holy Ghost.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> I am consistently puzzled over folks who acknowledge belief in a Supreme Being capable of getting us out of our graves ..yet deny the same Deity would be capable of putting an accurate Book in our hands. It must be an old folks ailment........


I always equate it with the dude who is eyeballing the blonde on the left side of the street, . . . then tries to convince the cop that there was no stop sign back there at the intersection or that it was camouflaged.

Yes, the Lord gave us a very detailed book, . . . but not one that would lend itself well to being dissected, partitioned, paged, chaptered, and numbered by a computer or a person, or even by a bunch of computers and/or people.

He designed it to be a personal book, . . . designed for my personal experience with Him, . . . as well as yours, . . . and even MM's vs_shocked.

This is not to say that the judgment, heaven and hell would be different for each, . . . but that what each of us needs to understand is different.

I, . . . for example, . . . am a student of eschatology, . . . love to study it, . . . look at it, . . . try to see how the pieces fit, . . . but will never become a "big name" eschatologist, . . . simply because my study is for me. What I understand, . . . satisfies my curiosity, . . . and while I will share what I know and believe, . . . I do not believe for one moment that I am THE ONE with all the answers. There are already too many out there swimming in that pool.

OTOH, . . . there are evangelists, . . . they make their living and satisfy their calling by being able and willing to call out sin, . . . define it, . . . outline it, . . . categorize it, . . . and if necessary, choreograph the production of salvation against it.

BUT, . . . it IS accurate, . . . it IS truthful, . . . and it IS all anyone needs to have to make it into heaven, . . . if he'll just keep his eyes off the aforementioned blonde.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

re: Watchman.

Although I also think it might be possible that the period of peace will be 70 years, not 7. Depending on how bad the chastisement is, (like an EMP), it could take that long for the world to get it together enough to gear up for the end, the anti-christ et al.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

According to the Holy Bible, the era known as The Tribulation will be a 7 year period that will ensue after a peace treaty is signed with Israel. This peace treaty will be broken at 3 1/2 years as the Anti Christ and False Prophet show their true intent. This is not a period of peace.

A period of peace? I wouldn't expect one until after the battle of Armageddon when God will rule here on earth with his kingdom after defeating Darkness.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> According to the Holy Bible, the era known as The Tribulation will be a 7 year period that will ensue after a peace treaty is signed with Israel. This peace treaty will be broken at 3 1/2 years as the Anti Christ and False Prophet show their true intent. This is not a period of peace.
> 
> A period of peace? I wouldn't expect one until after the battle of Armageddon when God will rule here on earth with his kingdom after defeating Darkness.


I believe that Jesus Christ is the Only way to the father. I live my life based on that. I am convinced of it. If I was not convinced of it i would live differently.

I think many people strive for salvation because they want to go to heaven - WHEN they really should be striving to serve the Just and Holy King and working to serve him because he is worthy

In other words... it is about the *GIFT GIVER* not about the gift

I am also a student of end times. I have spoken and taught about it several times... I disagree with dwight on his timing - but agree with him that the catching away will be after the peace treaty and after the mid point. I think it will be closer to the mid point then the end. I see how he believe what he believes (I do not see how people believe in a pre-trib catching away).

I prep based on the fact I believe that we (True followers of Jesus Christ) are going to go through THE GREAT TRIBULATION (which is really satan's Wrath) and be Caught up just prior to God's wrath - before the 7th seal is open

There are events you can write on a chart and put them in order of what comes before or after certain events... as an example it is clear that a 7 year peace treaty is what kicks off the last 7 years (70th week) and then in the middle of the week the holy place is made desolate...

after the desolation " sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Matt 24 and in Rev 6 we see the same event "the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth"

I believe the things that are written about before the sun become dark happen BEFORE -------and the things that are written about after the sun becomes dark happen after!!!!

ANYWAYS - my mindset is NOT that there will be a mindless/powerless SHTF event.... My mindset is there will be an event directed by an evil force and it will be pointed directly at Followers of Jesus Christ... and I mean true followers - not the modern church of laodicea that has become a lukewarm haven for all the sexual immorality and GOD LOVES EVERYBODY false preaching that has taken over the pulpit.

it is called a SMALL FLOCK and the way is called NARROW for a reason.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> You know that is not true... you CAN NOT stop from concerning yourself... Even though you disagree you still have to post to make sure that people know Christians are wrong and that you are right.
> 
> of course the funny thing is that you criticize us for THINKING we are RIGHT and at the same time you are guilty of the same thing
> 
> I have prayed for you.


M&M

Do not pray for me. I don't need your pity. Secondly you asked a question of me and I responded to you just like i did for Anne.

I don't criticize you for thinking you are right, but for you and others claiming that everyone else is wrong.

And lastly you for one have been predicting various dire events as about to happen for going on a year now and as far as I can see no a single one has come true.

But hey have a beautiful sunday


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> M&M
> 
> Do not pray for me. I don't need your pity. Secondly you asked a question of me and I responded to you just like i did for Anne.
> 
> ...


Still going off topic. I started a whole new thread to keep this one on track AND to offer a place for conversations like this.

Ok, fine. SHTF prophecy is not your thing. That is understood. THIS IS A SHTF PROPHECY THREAD. This thread is based on Daniels 70th week. So why come to trash what others are saying? I provided a place for you to say whatever you want without disrupting this thread. I happen to be interested in this particular topic as others are. Or should we not be allowed to discuss this topic because it offends you?

*Please* make all other responses in the other thread and let this discussion continue.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> M&M
> 
> Do not pray for me. I don't need your pity. Secondly you asked a question of me and I responded to you just like i did for Anne.
> 
> ...


I did a thread about the Jewish Shmita and I thought I was clear that I "thought" it could happen between Sept and Sept... I never said IT WOULD, I said it COULD. You will not find one place that I gave a certain date as certain... I always avoid date setting.

If we are to STOP discussing future events we should just close down this forum..since it is a prepper place and we prepare for future events

you have a logical problem... everybody that believes something believes that others are wrong. If I think that the Red soxs will win the world series..I also think everybody else is wrong

If I think Jesus is the only way - then I have to believe that all other ways are invalid... Jesus can not be the ONLY way if there is another way

you think you are right and Christians are wrong...you express it all the time.. so are you not accepting of Christians???? Do you have a problem with people that disagree with you??? Or do you just dislike people who are convinced of their beliefs? Would people being wishy washy be better for you????


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I did a thread about the Jewish Shmita and I thought I was clear that I "thought" it could happen between Sept and Sept... I never said IT WOULD, I said it COULD. You will not find one place that I gave a certain date as certain... I always avoid date setting.
> 
> If we are to STOP discussing future events we should just close down this forum..since it is a prepper place and we prepare for future events
> 
> ...


MM, I will ask the same thing of you. Let's keep this thread on topic. The other thread is open for all other types of discussions. Thanks.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> MM, I will ask the same thing of you. Let's keep this thread on topic. The other thread is open for all other types of discussions. Thanks.


Who started this thread?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Who started this thread?


I'm trying to respect that and keep it on topic.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I'm trying to respect that and keep it on topic.


I respect that respect, and would respect others if they would respect it, too.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> I respect that respect, and would respect others if they would respect it, too.


:vs_laugh:


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> I respect that respect, and would respect others if they would respect it, too.


I was once asked "Will you respect me in the morning?" to which I answered "I do not respect you now and I doubt anything that will happen in the next 8 hours will change that!"


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> I respect that respect, and would respect others if they would respect it, too.


A watchman shakes his head and thinks huh?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> M&M
> 
> Do not pray for me. I don't need your pity.


 I would request that all of you pray for me daily, as I realize that doing so would be a true sign of love in the spirit of God. I pray also that someday ROM realizes the same.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

For a long time, . . . I could empathize with my grandfather (old Ky. Baptist preacher) who died in 1938, and was perplexed as to how the end of time could come because there was no place called Israel, . . . Palestine, yes, . . . Israel, nada!!!

I used his logic, . . . "It's gonna happen, . . . we just don't know how yet", . . . and still do apply that to my questions.

One thing that kinda looks like a good probability, . . . the writers talk of horses, and riders on horses during the end times as though we would go back to the "horse and buggy" days, . . . or at least back far enough that horses would again be used in battle.

That took me to the concept of EMP strikes.

With the world literally going ape over computers, . . . their abilities to control stuff, . . . their cheapness, . . . their availability, . . . I can see where a fairly good sized "strike and retaliation" nuclear exchange could knock the major portion of the world back to reliance upon horses again.

We have to be open to discussion, . . . open to understandings different from our own, . . . open to ideas that can make the difference. 

Can a succession of EMP events plunge the world back 200 years, . . . 100 years, . . . even 60 or 70 would be seriously a problem for the most of the world today.

The ********* who have lived like it is still 700 AD will survive better than most of us and our cohorts, . . . they are inherently prepped. I prep to get through whatever is thrown my way, . . . watching the Eastern sky.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

@dwight55. Here is a serious question.

No where in Revelation does it show the US involved. It's like we cease to exist or at least by that time we are a 3rd world country. Unless "Mystery Babylon" is the US.

What are your thoughts on this?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

inceptor said:


> @dwight55. Here is a serious question.
> 
> No where in Revelation does it show the US involved. It's like we cease to exist or at least by that time we are a 3rd world country. Unless "Mystery Babylon" is the US.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


Ahhh, I will let Dwight respond, but I suspect you already know the answer to the dilemma which you speak of.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Mystery Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church. All us old Bapticostals know that.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Mystery Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church. All us old Bapticostals know that.


I've read a lot of opinion that suggests that, but I am not convinced.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Mystery Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church. All us old Bapticostals know that.


I was under the impression it was a place or a country, not the church.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well somebody gonna need to be edumacated around here. The Roman Catholic Church started in Babylon..it involved the Mother and Son Worship of the Babylonians specifically Nimrod's Wife named Semmarami and her Son name Tammuz. Very interesting history there..and the progenitor of all mother and son worship. They migrated to Rome and When Constantine inflicted compulsory Christianity on the Roman Empire they moved right on in just re naming the main characters to the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus. 
Chapter 7 - Easter the resurrection of Tammuz!


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

inceptor said:


> @dwight55. Here is a serious question.
> 
> No where in Revelation does it show the US involved. It's like we cease to exist or at least by that time we are a 3rd world country. Unless "Mystery Babylon" is the US.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


It's really simple, inceptor, . . . something will happen to "take us down". At least that is my take on it.

There is simply no place in the scriptures where the USA is mentioned in such a fashion that it could be readily inferred that "THERE SHE IS".

On the other hand: Lebanon, Greece, Persia, Egypt, Libya, Ethiopia, and Syria are all openly mentioned as participants.

When the Lord wanted us to know something: salvation, baptism, death, resurrection, etc. it is made abundantly clear, . . . not so about the USA.

Israel's enemies were well named, . . . because when there was no reason for the name of Israel to be included back then, . . . the writers, copiers, choreographers, etc. all decided that even though there is no Israel, God said "this about it" so we'll include it anyway, . . . including the participants against Israel.

Fast forward almost 2000 years, . . . there is now a country called Israel, . . . in the place where old Israel existed, . . . and the funny thing is, . . . the old enemies mentioned some 1900 years + ago, . . . are the same enemies today. Her only friend then was God, . . . looks like it is destined to go that way again.

Ironically, . . . a couple or three EMP strikes of the right size and right magnitude, . . . launched from an Iranian satellite, . . . funded and approved by Clinton and Co., . . . could easily put the whole north American continent back 150 years in technology and production, . . . in less than 24 hours. AND THERE IS NO DEFENSE IN PLACE, . . . PLANNED, . . . OR EVEN IN THE WORKS. In fact, . . . most just bury their hand in the sand and deny the possibility.

Personally, . . . that is the scenario I am looking for, . . . with an "also ran" coordinated 3 or 4 EMP strikes that will put the UK, France and Germany in the dark as well.

Russia still uses a lot of not computerized equipment, . . . so she will come out somewhat ahead of us.

The ********* have been practicing living in 700 AD for the last 1400 years, . . . nothing new to them.

My personal best guess is once Russia sees the opening for pouncing on Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, . . . she'll jump. She will then refuel the tanks, . . . over the upper regions of Jordan / lower Syria, . . . down along the Med coast of Israel, . . . fulfilling Daniel's prophesy, . . . taking the oil fields of Libya, Egypt, Sudan, and Ethiopia, . . . thence becoming THE in fact world power, . . .

After that it is up to the politicians to slit each other's throats until one becomes the Beast, . . . then the false prophet, . . . and the rest is history.

Vague, yeah, . . . all the marbles not in one place, . . . probably, . . . but with the EMP strikes literally taking out 150 years worth of technology, . . . horses are again in vogue, . . . and several of the prophets mention horses as a weapon of the end time armies.

Just food for thought, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I knew parts of that. I knew that church also converted pagan holidays to Christianity and didn't even bother to change a lot of the names. I also know that Christ was born in September according to star charts and the timing of holidays at the time.

I didn't know about mother/son worship nor had heard about the conversion.

I did know that the last pope would be a puppet of the anti-christ.

My concern though is what happens here. I am also aware of George Washington's vision.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> M&M
> 
> Do not pray for me. I don't need your pity. Secondly you asked a question of me and I responded to you just like i did for Anne.
> 
> ...


You have a good one, too! I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I offered you at my Mass intention today.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Well somebody gonna need to be edumacated around here. The Roman Catholic Church started in Babylon..it involved the Mother and Son Worship of the Babylonians specifically Nimrod's Wife named Semmarami and her Son name Tammuz. Very interesting history there..and the progenitor of all mother and son worship. They migrated to Rome and When Constantine inflicted compulsory Christianity on the Roman Empire they moved right on in just re naming the main characters to the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus.
> Chapter 7 - Easter the resurrection of Tammuz!


The Queen Mother was always honored in OT times. How much more so the mother of Christ the King? He gave her to us at the foot of the cross when He said, "Woman, behold you son to Mary and St John.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks Dwight, your line of thinking is not far from mine. 

I have figured for many years that we will be taken down. Whether it’s by Russia, China or our own people or a combination we won’t matter to the larger picture. 

An EMP has always been in the top 3 of what I figure will happen. Another one in the top 3 is being taken out by our own people. If you look at what’s happened behind the scenes in the second term, this has moved to the top. This admin has been stockpiling supplies, firing the top people that might get in the way and making sure that tension is widely growing. The tension between our own people is growing by leaps and bounds. And not long ago he stated that we are in the best shape we have been for years and nothing will happen. I learned when a politician tells you nothing is going on, you can bet the opposite is going to happen. 

Europe is nearly in ruin right now with all the stuff they have going on. Israel has become an outcast from this country. Our allies have all but deserted us. And I can’t really blame them. 

With Europe out of the picture for all intents and purposes, we are down for the count then the stuff that matters (Biblical events in the middle east) can begin in earnest.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Mystery Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church. All us old Bapticostals know that.


You realize how offensive that is to Catholics, I trust? To call the bride of Christ a whore?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> The Queen Mother was always honored in OT times.


can you provide some examples of that


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> You realize how offensive that is to Catholics, I trust? To call the bride of Christ a whore?


The bride of Christ is the Church universal.. IE all Believers - Unless you think only Catholics go to heaven

Jesus was clear

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Jesus was not talking bad ABOUT His bride He was talking bad about those that are pretending to be the bride

Not all catholics are going to heaven, not all Mormons are going to hell, not all baptist go to Perkins after service


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> can you provide some examples of that


Here:
Scott Hahn on the Blessed Virgin Mary | Catholic-Pages.com
Mary as Queen Mother

So I just want to throw this out to tantalize and perhaps tease a little bit because we don't have the time to go through all the Ark of the Covenant passages, but there's a great deal of exciting and, I think, impressive evidence from the literary artistry of Hebrew narrative as it prepared the way for the Davidic kingdom being fulfilled with the Son of David, Jesus Christ, and his Queen Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary.

What do I mean by this Queen Mother stuff? Now we will take a look at a key passage. Let's turn now to 1st Kings, chapter 1. This, I believe, is the missing link. I really am convinced that this is the most important exegetical Biblical piece of evidence that we have to go on. It was one of the best-known institutions in ancient Israel's monarchy or after the Civil War ancient Juda's monarchy and in fact, the idea of the Queen Mother was ubiquitous. You don't find ancient monarchies in the Near East or the Middle East that don't have Queen Mothers. I'll refer you to a key article written by N.A. Andrieson in Catholic Biblical Quarterly in 1983, pages 179 through 194. It's entitled, "The Role of the Queen Mother in Israelite Society." This note card, incidentally, comes from about six years ago because it was right after the article came out that I was beginning to do some Old Testament research and opening my mind up to some Catholic ideas. Even though I had been very anti-Catholic I had already begun to accumulate some evidence for this Queen Mother tradition, but it was all piece- meal and scattered.

When I read this article, it was like a thunderclap striking me. I knew I had to really pay close attention to the evidence. What evidence? Well, this is known as the gebirah. The gebirah is the Hebrew term for the Queen Mother. I found in another book, The Graphic History of the Jewish Heritage, that the gebirah, the Queen Mother "occupied a unique and powerful position" throughout the history of ancient Israel's monarchy. He gives as an example Bathsheba, Solomon's mother, who was enthroned, which we will look at in just a moment.

Also, another example, Maacah, in 1st Kings 15:13; Jezebel, who is the only Queen Mother in the rebellious northern kingdom of Israel. In fact, the northern kingdom of Israel is conspicuous because it lacked the Queen Mother. Father DeVoe, one of the greatest Old Testament scholars of the century said, "This was due to a lack of dynastic stability." They kept getting overthrown up north. They didn't have the Davidic covenant to anchor the claims of these potential kings. That's in 2nd Kings 10:13. And then Athaliah, the very cruel and wicked queen who ruled for six years, trying to suppress the cult of Yahweh in the Temple. Mehushta over Johoachin in Jeremiah 13:18. Another scholar in Scandinavia, Ostrum says, "The Queen Mother's position was essentially cultic in nature," that is she actually had a position or a role to play in worship. It wasn't priestly but it was important and it was cultic. It's still left undefined.

In the ancient Near East it goes on talking about how, "The Queen Mother throughout all these ancient Near Eastern monarchies sat beside the king on a throne, survived the death without being deposed. If the king died, the Queen Mother continued to reign without being deposed. There was a cultic role for her in leading the songs and so on in worship but also she had an essential role in political, military and economic affairs of court. In fact there are records of where the Queen Mother could oppose the king on issues of state. This is found in the Eplah tablets and Uhr Hittite records, Egypt Marri tablets, Assyria and other Arabian documents, as well. And the Queen Mother usually began her reign, just as an interesting incidental detail, after menopause.

What's really interesting from Andreason's perspective is that even after the prophets are sent by God to purify the Jerusalem cult and the kingdom of all of these pagan encrustations, the institution of the gebirah continues with reforms by Hezekiah and Josiah. The fertility cults are suppressed and these ashora poles and so on are torn down, including sacred snakes, you know the nahushta and so on, but never the Queen Mother, that's allowed to remain. The central role for Andreason's research is that she was to be the king's wisdom counselor. Lady Wisdom in the Book of Proverbs is sort of like a personification of the Queen Mother, or visa versa.

It goes on listing several other examples. I won't bother you with all these examples but of the sixteen Queen Mothers named, seven explicitly seem to be Jerusalemites. It just runs throughout the whole gamut, the whole historical span of the monarchy and actually, the only chapter of the Bible that we know was written by a woman, Proverbs 31, was written by a Queen Mother as instruction for her son before he accedes to the throne and finds himself a wife, she says, "This is the kind you've got to find." Andreason concludes that "This is the theological paradigm for Mary's Queenship. Jesus is the Son of David and the genealogy in Matthew links Mary to the Davidic line. Being the Son of David makes her the Queen Mother." There are some other works too, The Nature of the Queenship of Mary, published in 1973, The Royal Son of God, published in 1979 and so on. But I can share these sources with you , if you are interested, afterwards.

Let's take a look at an example of the function and authority of the Queen Mother in 1st Kings. In chapter 1 there is an intense fraternal rivalry between Solomon or Jedidiah, whose throne name is Peace, Solomon, and his half-brother, Adonijah, who by the way is older and was born to one of David's wives whom he had married before Bathsheba. So Adonijah seemed to have a kind of prima facia claim to the throne before Solomon, except that Bathsheba had exacted from David an oath to the effect that her son would get the throne. You can get it in Psalm 110 especially. So, anyway, Adonijah approaches Bathsheba in order to approach Solomon. We're going to see how this goes. But first of all we see King David asking Bathsheba, verse 17, " What is it you want the king asked? She said to him, 'My Lord, you yourself swore to me your servant by the Lord your God, Solomon your son shall be king after me and he will sit on my throne. But now Adonijah has become king and you my Lord, the king, do not know about it.'" And it goes on talking about this palace coup attempt.

Then King David says over in verse 28 and 29 calling Bathsheba. "So she came into the king's presence and stood before him. The king then took an oath, 'as surely as the Lord lives,'" and he goes on promising and swearing that "Solomon, your son, shall be king after me and he will sit on my throne in my place," even though the majority of the people were going after Adonijah at the time, several key priests, as well. And so she rejoices.

Now turn over to 1st Kings 2. There's where David gives his royal charge to Solomon and Solomon asks for wisdom, but just browse and just go through that as quickly as you can and just see what is going on here because it is very unusual. Let's take a look in particular at verse 13. "Now Adonijah, the son of Haggith, went to Bathsheba, Solomon's mother. Bathsheba asked him, 'Do you come peacefully?' He answered, 'Yes, peacefully,' then he added, 'I have something to say to you.' 'You may say it, she replied.' 'As you know,' he said, 'the kingdom was mine. All Israel looked to me as their king. But then things changed and the kingdom has gone to my brother for it has come to him from the Lord. Now I have just one request to make of you. Do not refuse me.' 'You may make it she said. So he continued, 'Please ask King Solomon, he won't refuse you, to give me Abishag, the Shunamite as my wife.'" If you understood palace politics, you'd see what this was. "Very well," Bathsheba replied. "I will speak to the king for you."

Abishag happened to be David's last lover and wife. She was the one young woman who kept him warm in his old age, sleeping next to him at all times. To have David's last wife would be to have official claim to the throne. This is why Absolom publicly slept with David's concubines after he threw his father out of Jerusalem, because if I have the Queen Mothers, if I have the king's wives, who do you see as your king? Solomon is no fool. When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, look what happens. The king of Israel, the son of David, the supreme head of God's covenant people in the whole world, according to Psalm 2 stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne and he had a throne brought for the king's mother and she sat down at his right hand. "Sit at my right hand," Psalm 110. That's the position of authority. I have one small request to make of you. She goes on and makes the request. Solomon sees through it. Says no, of course, and executes Adonijah.

But look at the beginning of the institution of the gebirah. It's something that continues. When the Queen Mother walks in, the king, because he is her son, pays filial homage to her and establishes her at his right hand, upon a throne as Queen Mother. If I am the father of the family of this kingdom, if I am the shepherd of this flock, that makes you the mother. Not only my mother but the grandmother of us all. That institution persisted down through the ages of the Judaite monarchy. There is no evidence of it ever being suppressed by the prophets or criticized by Yahweh or ever falling into hard times and being replaced because it was seen as something that was meaningless.

So what? So the Jews who had been waiting and waiting and waiting for five hundred years for the Davidic line to be reestablished at the time of Christ's coming knew all this. They knew it like the back of their hand. We don't. Many Biblical scholars aren't even aware of it. But every Jew did. I mean Joe Six-pack or Joe Sixpackstein, they all knew it. They all knew that God had sworn an oath that there would always be a Davidic king and that the kingdom of David would be restored in its former glory, and in fact, greater glory.

But the last time we hear about the Davidic kingdom, it's fallen upon hard times. We won't go through all the passages in Chronicles and Kings but when the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem in 586 and even prior to that, they had captured the king. They had killed all of his sons before his eyes, they drilled out his eyes and they sent him into captivity in chains. From there on the fortunes of the Davidic dynasty only went down and for hundreds and hundreds of years, for decades at a time, the Jews wondered, "Is there even a Davidic descendent?" I mean sure the Hasmonians claim some Davidic dynastic relations and so on, but never was it sure and whenever any claimant to Davidic authority would rise up, what would happen? Like Jerubabaal in coming back from Babylonian captivity, he went straight to Jerusalem and the High Priest is there and all the people were saying, "At last the Davidic throne is going to be restored." Only what happens? He's recalled to Persia and we never hear from him again. The Davidic kingdom is not restored.

So for centuries and centuries the Jewish people keep reading Psalm 2, keep reading Psalm 89, keep reading Psalm 110, keep reading Psalm 132 and all these other Davidic Messianic psalms that promised an ongoing, unbroken line of Davidic succession and glorious, glorious power. It would be sort of like if all of us took a refresher course on the promise that Jesus gave to Peter about the rock and the keys and the gates of Hades not prevailing and we reminded ourselves and we reinforced our conviction that the papal line would always be unbroken. Then all of a sudden we hear that the Pope has been assassinated and all the Bishops have been rounded up and assassinated as well.

What would happen? I'll bet you some people's faith would be shaken. I'll bet you mine would be, and if yours isn't, I don't understand. I mean that's an oath that Jesus swore, in effect. It was an oath that God swore in effect. Is there a Davidic line? Has God forgotten? Has he fallen asleep at the wheel? What is going on? Turn with me now to Matthew 1.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> The bride of Christ is the Church universal.. IE all Believers - Unless you think only Catholics go to heaven
> 
> Jesus was clear
> 
> ...


The Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ. Now what do I mean by that? I mean her teachings on faith and morals are perfect. Believe me, I am painfully aware of the problems she has at this time, but as far as the traditional Church teachings, they are perfect.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> The Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ. Now what do I mean by that? I mean her teachings on faith and morals are perfect. Believe me, I am painfully aware of the problems she has at this time, but as far as the traditional Church teachings, they are perfect.


Jesus spoke of many churches...he never called any of them perfect..in fact he corrected all of them. SO unless Jesus was incorrect, the Catholic church is not perfect....

search for the words moral or morals in the bible, you will not find them..morals change ever 20 years... Jesus came to teach about holiness and being a follower


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Here:
> Scott Hahn on the Blessed Virgin Mary | Catholic-Pages.com
> Mary as Queen Mother
> .


I asked what the bible had to say about the queen mother in the OT and you post a long letter from a rejected ex protestant that has zero (0) credibility...

scott hahn is to protestant what martin luther is to catholics


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm thinking this course of conversation is not beneficial to anything close to the notion of harmony.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Jesus spoke of many churches...he never called any of them perfect..in fact he corrected all of them. SO unless Jesus was incorrect, the Catholic church is not perfect....


Well, if you're referring Rev, yes there's many churches, like the church in Philadelphia, or the church at Ephesus. That kind of church only refers to location, not a religious denomination. And you're right: the people aren't perfect.

But Jesus only founded one Church. 
Matthew 16:
[18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.



> The people in the churches are the ones Our Lord was correvting.
> 
> search for the words moral or morals in the bible, you will not find them..morals change ever 20 years... Jesus came to teach about holiness and being a follower


If something is morally true, it can't change. Objective moral truths never change. Customs can change, fashions change. If something was immoral, if it was a sin a hundred years ago, lets say murder for example. Cold blooded murder, not talking self defense, if it was sinful then, it's sinful now. This si because God's law never changes; God can't change and He is truth. Truth can't change.

If you would like to debate futher, let me know. Perhaps we could take it to another, more appropriate site. I know this is getting off track.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Again, this course of conversation is not conducive to productivity. This has steered from looking at prophetic words in relation to SHTF scenarios and is devolving into sectarian debate that can quickly lead to hurt feelings.

I would suggest redirecting the discussion. That is just a suggestion, but you can guess what is going to happen if this turns into a flame fest.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Well, if you're referring Rev, yes there's many churches, like the church in Philadelphia, or the church at Ephesus. That kind of church only refers to location, not a religious denomination. And you're right: the people aren't perfect.
> 
> But Jesus only founded one Church.


 @Annie

the church is made up of the body of believers. People are the church. (baptist, Methodist, catholics, etc) The early church was mostly Jews and to be honest the original followers of Jesus Christ would not recognize the Catholic church...in fact they would not recognize most "Churches"

The Catholic Church teaches
"Outside the Church there is no salvation" (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

I could spend 20 pages going back and forth on the catholic issue.. I will not..

I will just say - I reject the catholic church as being the true church, I reject Mary as an intercessor and or queen of heaven, and i reject the papacy!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> Again, this course of conversation is not conducive to productivity. This has steered from looking at prophetic words in relation to SHTF scenarios and is devolving into sectarian debate that can quickly lead to hurt feelings.
> 
> I would suggest redirecting the discussion. That is just a suggestion, but you can guess what is going to happen if this turns into a flame fest.


Denton said "conducive to productivity"......... $20 says he copied that from a comic strip


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Alst I'll say is she is NOT the whore.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Denton said "conducive to productivity"......... $20 says he copied that from a comic strip


What if I did? :armata_PDT_36:


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> What if I did? :armata_PDT_36:


I will tell you what I tell my oldest son... it good that you're handsome because you are not that smart


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Alst I'll say is she is NOT the whore.


time will tell


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I will tell you what I tell my oldest son... it good that your handsome because you are not that smart


I may not be all that smart, but I know the difference between you're and your! :vs_smirk:


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> I may not be all that smart, but I know the difference between you're and your! :vs_smirk:


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> Again, this course of conversation is not conducive to productivity. This has steered from looking at prophetic words in relation to SHTF scenarios and is devolving into sectarian debate that can quickly lead to hurt feelings.
> 
> I would suggest redirecting the discussion. That is just a suggestion, but you can guess what is going to happen if this turns into a flame fest.


You mean you actually read these essays?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

What happened to the keys to the liquor cabinet?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> @Annie
> 
> the church is made up of the body of believers. People are the church. (baptist, Methodist, catholics, etc) The early church was mostly Jews and to be honest the original followers of Jesus Christ would not recognize the Catholic church...in fact they would not recognize most "Churches"
> 
> ...


Getting burned at the stake aint very pleasant most likely. You may have time to repent if you act quickly.


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