# Ken Burns Film Vietnam War



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Anyone else watching?
The first night covered the last several hundred years of Vietnam history, ending about 1959. 
As a WW2 history enthusiast I already knew of American outreach to Ho Chi Minh in 1945 and 1946. Our war with the Vietnamese could have been avoided.

I was just curious if anyone was watching, or planned to watch. Wondering what those who didn't have a personal stake in the war thought, and if they are learning some new things.

For the record - I found the first episode very fair and honest.
I really liked hearing from veterans of the Viet Minh and North Vietnamese Army.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

What channel or service is showing it? AMC (American Hero Channel) has some good Viet Nam era programming at times.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Anyone else watching?
> The first night covered the last several hundred years of Vietnam history, ending about 1959.
> As a WW2 history enthusiast I already knew of American outreach to Ho Chi Minh in 1945 and 1946. Our war with the Vietnamese could have been avoided.
> 
> ...


It's on my "to watch" list when I can get a chance.

He said that the US reached out to Ho Chi Minh? That's a complete opposite of what happened, HCM reached out to the USA, the Vietnamese declaration of independence is based off of ours, after working for years with the support of the US OSI (Office of Strategic Intelligence) which helped him overthrow the Japanese invaders from '41-'45.

He tried and tried to get Truman to support his government but Truman didn't.

That lead to the war in "French Indo-China" which became our Vietnam war, all of which could have been avoided if Truman had just accepted that the Vietnamese government had the right to exist and rule themselves.

A LOT of our good boys died in a war that never should have been, and a lot more were wounded both physically and mentally... but we all know that.


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

I am.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Ken Burns has done good stuff. I switched back and forth from the packers game to that show.


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

Thanks RPD. I watched first episode on PBS web site. Then set up recorder. Very much appreciated.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

RedLion said:


> What channel or service is showing it? AMC (American Hero Channel) has some good Viet Nam era programming at times.


Public Broadcasting TV.
Over the air, no cable or satelite needed.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

RedLion said:


> What channel or service is showing it? AMC (American Hero Channel) has some good Viet Nam era programming at times.


Public Broadcasting TV.
Over the air, no cable or satelite needed.


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## Toefoot (Jun 21, 2017)

I am watching it, happy to see they brought in the history of Veitnam prior to the US arriving.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Salty, I base my statement on the fact the OSS parachuted teams into Indochina in 1945 to contact Ho.
The program went into good detail of Ho's early life, in Vietnam and abroad. He even lived and worked in Boston for several years.
The letters Ho wrote to Truman were shown on screen, and it was noted that according to witnesses they were never shown to Truman.

As a student of military history, especially WW2, I have not found any fault with the film so far.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

1skrewsloose said:


> Ken Burns has done good stuff. I switched back and forth from the packers game to that show.


Ken Burns certainly is well produced stuff... having said that, I have found accuracy issues in a lot of his work. He very much goes with "the accepted history" when in fact there are many different views on the events...

Still, it is pretty stuff.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Salty, I base my statement on the fact the OSS parachuted teams into Indochina in 1945 to contact Ho.
> The program went into good detail of Ho's early life, in Vietnam and abroad. He even lived and worked in Boston for several years.
> The letters Ho wrote to Truman were shown on screen, and it was noted that according to witnesses they were never shown to Truman.
> 
> As a student of military history, especially WW2, I have not found any fault with the film so far.


Good to know, obviously I will trust your judgement on it not having seen it, there's just a narrative in many places that bury the fact that we could have had Ho on our side but we didn't follow through... glad to hear that isn't the case here.

As a civil war buff and historian (can't get into the details, but I'm in the field) Ken's Civil War series had several serious flaws IMHO. In part, I suspect it was a product of it's time, when popular and published history was more politically correct than it is today.

I realize he's producing TV for the average viewers, most of whom know little about the subject, and not really for historians... I get that you can get lost in the details... but some details are important.

Thanks for sharing, I'll definitely watch it, Vietnam is WAY out of my wheelhouse of knowledge, my study has never really taken me past 1949 in just about any area of history.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

It seemed that every other sentence uttered in the entire show had a strange pro communist slant or a progressive viewpoint enhanced via revisionist History blatantly offered up as fact . If it gets worse in episode 2 I will watch all following episodes with volume off .


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Episode One | The Vietnam War


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Gator Monroe said:


> It seemed that every other sentence uttered in the entire show had a strange pro communist slant or a progressive viewpoint enhanced via revisionist History blatantly offered up as fact . If it gets worse in episode 2 I will watch all following episodes with volume off .


That may be your perception, however, as a staunch anti-communist myself I did not get this sense.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Watching episode 2 now, 22 minutes in.
Watching JFK lie to the American public about no combat troops in-country in 1962.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Episode 2 - 1961 to November 1963 and the South Vietnamese generals coup.

So far, on the money.
American government hiding info from the public, American officers and civilian officials above those actually in the field lying to Washington, a corrupt South Vietnamese government, and South Vietnamese troops that would not fight.
All these things were true, and those of us who went would find to be so.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> That may be your perception, however, as a staunch anti-communist myself I did not get this sense.


The way they Idolized Uncle Ho and vilified the Europeans and equivocated Communism to other forms of Government (Including Colonialism) and please watch it again with volume up and HAVE LAPTOP OR SMARTPHONE at hand to fact check some of the twaddle espoused that seems a little off ,trust me its there ...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Gator Monroe said:


> The way they Idolized Uncle Ho and vilified the Europeans and equivocated Communism to other forms of Government (Including Colonialism) and please watch it again with volume up and HAVE LAPTOP OR SMARTPHONE at hand to fact check some of the twaddle espoused that seems a little off ,trust me its there ...


Ho Chi Minh WAS idolized by the Vietnamese people, both North AND South. We had to be ordered not to have our Zippo lighters engraved "Ho Chi Minh Is A Mother F*****" to avoid alienating the SOUTH VIETNAMESE.
French colonialism raped the Vietnam countryside of its natural resources, and treated the people like crap.
The South Vietnamese government were mostly corrupt individuals who figuratively raped their own people to enrich themselves.:vs_poop:

All we did was substitute one set of invaders (the French) for another (us).:vs_shocked:

I am not blinded by bias. America tried to prop up a failed government that its own people didn't want. Why in the hell do you think the North Vietnamese fought so hard, and the South Vietnamese ran away from battle?
And I saw this with my own eyes. You only have what you read on your LAPTOP OR SMARTPHONE, which may, or may not, be as biased as you think this film is.:vs_lol:

Read "The Pentagon Papers", you might learn something.:vs_peace:


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

Listen to RPD. He knows what he speaks of. It was very frustrating for some of us.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I watched the 2nd installment last night. I am no expert as I was not there but seems to be in line with what I have read. I grew up watching that war on TV and remember then, my Dad shouting we don't belong there and we where not there to win. ( My Dad was always talking to the TV. ) My Mom was always asking when will it end. The war ended a couple of years before I would have been of age but I remember preparing myself for the possibility of being drafted. The 60's, will there ever be another decade like that?


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Episode 1 is in our dvr....watching tonite.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Prepared One said:


> I watched the 2nd installment last night. I am no expert as I was not there but seems to be in line with what I have read. I grew up watching that war on TV and remember then, my Dad shouting we don't belong there and we where not there to win. ( My Dad was always talking to the TV. ) My Mom was always asking when will it end. The war ended a couple of years before I would have been of age but I remember preparing myself for the possibility of being drafted. The 60's, will there ever be another decade like that?


This brings back so many memories to me.Of my Father saying the same thing,we just don't belong there,Mom and Dad worrying about my late brother Tom on his second tour.Me,getting my possible draft notification in 1974 while I was a senior in high school,wondering if I could survive there with what my brother was telling us what it was like in his letters.trying to join in any branch but being 4F'ed,but the war ending in 1975,earlier protests that turned into riots,hippies,seeing on tv about the war,and what was going on in the U.S.the experience I had while growing up in San Francisco just driving through the city was a trip.
It was a scary time back then.all I can say is thanks to my brother Tom,and the men and women who fought and died there and to the Veterans we have today to tell the stories of that awful time.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I am enjoying Ken Burns The Vietnam War.

Thinking of Two Great American hero's Gen Hal Moore and Sgt Major Basil Plumley


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)




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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Interesting to note that there where two LZ's in the battle Battle of Ia Drang Valley. The one made famous by the book and movie and LZ Albany. If I had ever heard of the second I've forgotten.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Caught 2 thirds of episode 3 last night and Burns is really channeling his inner Clint Eastwood (Fleshing out & humanizing & equivocating the Enemy and the Enemies Political and Moral ground ) Its sad that the Revisionist History can even be molded & revised to fit current day geopolitical issues...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Just finished episode 4.
Fair and balanced (where have I heard that before).
We are up to 1967 in the film now, and I hope that people who didn't really know much about the war are learning some valuable lessons.
I knew 48 years ago that we were making more enemies than we were killing. And we would have to kill every last one of them.

But of course, I did not know that in 1967. I still believed our government at that time. And I had grown up post-WW2, "The Good War".
So, in October 1967 I enlisted in the US Army on a delayed entry program, taking all the physicals and other tests, and reporting at the induction center at Coral Gables, Florida for active duty on January 2, 1968.

One of the anti war protestors tonight got it correct when he said that when the draft was running out of minorities and poor whites, and started in on the college boys, that the anti war protests changed from a moral issue into a self preservation issue. 
And how so many boys were hiding out in the National Guard and Reserves.
Even today I take the measure of a man my age by whether he is a veteran or not. (By the way, National Guard and Reserves of that time are not considered veterans by the US government).

It is really sad that so many fine young men died for the egos of old politicians. But, I guess war has always been like that.

Edited to add: Two of the biggest self serving piles of dung to come out of this affair are Robert McNamara and Henry Kissinger.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I watched 4 as well. I think the conversations between LBJ and McNamara are telling. They had no idea who they were fighting in the north and continued to defend an inept, corrupt, and divided south. Yet they continued the charade, continued to lie to the American public. I did get the sense that LBJ wanted a way out. As well, I always knew RC had supplied and backed the north, but I had not considered how afraid LBJ was that they would actively engage troops in the conflict.

I remember my High School history teacher ( Yes, they still taught history back then ) I think my freshman year, say that had we turned our troops loose and did not run the war from the oval office it would be over. Although probably true I don't ever recall the discussion ever coming round to the reason we where there in the first place. I m not sure he knew. I do remember telling myself then, in that class room, that I was probably going to wind up going. Little did I know then that the next 2 years of my life would determine the next 15.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I know that the war and reasons for it could never be completely covered in 18 hours, but one omission so far has been LBJ's big statement when running for election in 1964: "I will never send American boys to fight in a foreign war".
His Republican opponent, Barry Goldwater, was portrayed by the Dems as a dangerous war mongering loose cannon.
LBJ ran as a peacemaker who would not get us in foreign entanglements.

This is the biggest reason behind my disgust and anger for LBJ.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Watched the next installment last night. I love that this series is exploring the back side of the war not many know about. Nixon was a conniving vicious SOB.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I have watched them all so far.
It is up to my time there. The Kent State shootings by the National Guard we all agreed was totally uncalled for and out of line. I remember several buddies commenting that this is what happens when you give live ammo to poorly trained poorly led weekend warriors.

When the episode involving the incursion into Laos by the ARVNs that happened in early 1971 is covered I'll pay very close attention. Although I was home by then, my unit, the 1st Infantry Brigade, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized) were the ground troops involved. Their mission was to clear Highway 9 of the enemy out to Khe Sahn, improve the road (which was dirt) to carry large amounts of supplies, to clear and secure Khe Sahn Combat Base so it could be used by the 101st Airborne for their air operations into Laos.

The October Moratorium against the war that drew so many crowds in the US was also noted on our base camp.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Prepared One said:


> Watched the next installment last night. I love that this series is exploring the back side of the war not many know about. Nixon was a conniving vicious SOB.


Both LBJ and Nixon were. And McNamara. And it will be shown later on what a real, special, piece of dog excrement Henry Kissinger was. There is a special place in hell for morally corrupt people like him.
And to hear them in their own words, knowing they were using American troops for totally BS reasons, I hope will wake up anyone who still believes the government holds the best interests of America as a priority.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm also interested in how the Easter Offensive 1972 is portrayed.
After the Marines left the DMZ due to Nixon's "Vietnamization" of the war, we were the only American ground forces left there. The First Brigade, 5th Inf Div numbered 6,000 men at full strength, and it was never at full strength.
The brigade was withdrawn in the summer of 1971, and left the defense of the area to the ARVN 1st Infantry Division, which was mainly a penal outfit, where other ARVN commanders sent their undesirable troops. Only a handful of Americans remained.
Easter 1972, the NVA poured a number of divisions across the DMZ and completely routed the ARVNs, who threw down their guns and ran. They knocked over women and children they were running so hard. And I mean that quite literally.
In a matter of 3 or 4 days the NVA held the entire Quang Tri Province. 

Marines and Army had suffered so many casualties over the years in Quang Tri, and it was all gone. 
I hope people who watch the film grasp the significance of the fact that North and South were one people, but one side fought so hard and against the mightiest military the world had ever known, and the other side ran whenever they could.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Some criticism of the series from a Viet Nam Vet.....



> The Tragedy of the PBS-Ken Burns Version of the Vietnam War


Blog: The Tragedy of the PBS-Ken Burns Version of the Vietnam War


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Some criticism of the series from a Viet Nam Vet.....
> 
> Blog: The Tragedy of the PBS-Ken Burns Version of the Vietnam War


I read it, and can not see where he concludes the film is incorrect.
To quote a US Air force general as saying perhaps we were on the wrong side? That is that man's opinion, not an error in the film.
And conjecture as to what would have happened if JFK lived, Barry Goldwater had won, etc is simply conjecture.

Having read the book The Pentagon Papers some 30 years ago I was aware of the fact our government knew it was a lost cause from the early days, but to hear LBJ and McNamara in their own voices via tape recordings, and to hear Nixon and Kissinger discuss (among other things) the peace talks displaying their personal moral bankruptcy added extra emphasis to the tragedy that was, indeed, Vietnam.

The film gave equal time to views of participants from all sides, even the anti war people.
I got a lot out of hearing the NVA and Viet Cong foot soldiers speak of their lives, and how they mourn their dead buddies to this day. Just like us. Most of them didn't care about fighting for communism, just like we didn't care about fighting for capitalism. We both had the same feelings, shared the same privations.
In the last episode, there were scenes of American vets going back, and their interaction with the former enemy. In the end, they were simply fellow vets.

I have no urge to go back, and couldn't afford it any way, but from what I have read over the last decade of those who have, I believe I'd rather hang out and share tea with those old enemy soldiers than hang with half of the American population.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Some criticism of the series from a Viet Nam Vet.....
> 
> Blog: The Tragedy of the PBS-Ken Burns Version of the Vietnam War


Another reaction, this from Marc Leepson, who is a Nam vet and a contributing editor for the VVA Veteran, the bi-monthly magazine of Vietnam Veterans of America. In the interest of full disclosure, he is a friend of mine.

https://vva.org/arts-of-war/the-ken-burns-documentary-a-review

One quiet satisfaction I received was the warm feeling that came in the last episode from the deserter . He deserted from US Army basic training and fled to Canada, where he actively protested the war. It was nice to see him say, with obvious regret, that the biggest mistake of his entire life was renouncing his US citizenship.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Redlion, my friend, I was not picking at you. I'm sorry if it sounded that way, it was not my intent.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Oliver North's opinion.....



> Oliver North: A Faulty Retelling Of 'The Vietnam War'


https://www.weaselzippers.us/360750-oliver-north-a-faulty-retelling-of-the-vietnam-war/


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

There was an air of Leftist sensibility throughout the series (I loved it visually so I just turned the volume off or down real low to avoid blood pressure issues resulting from the Liberal slants and digs that were coherently interspersed in every segment of every episode )


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