# Bugging Out / Standing Ground at workplace?



## Ordnanceman (Oct 19, 2013)

I work at a fenced in, secured, (somewhat) water treatment plant.Thick concrete walls,commercial generator, 500 gals of diesel and all the water I could need.High ground advantage with one road up the hill.I've been thinking about grabbing the family and standing ground at the plant in a SHTF situation.I would appreciate your thoughts about this. Im new here so forgive me if this is the wrong place for this.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Maybe get there quick and put your own locks on the gates behind you! 

Or, were you viewing said co-workers as a food source? 

View attachment 2988


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

How many other folks work at the plant and have the same idea?


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

It's an idea, but probably not a good one.I think eventually the authorities would come to reclaim their infrastructure.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I would tend to think that most public utilities would be close to the first places authorities would lay claim to. I may be wrong. They still want to provide essentials before the masses go beserk. How dumb would they be? I'd like to be long gone before that. Once in, you may have no way out. Infidel beat me by 2 minutes.


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## Doomsday (Jun 25, 2013)

I tend to agree with Arizona and skrewloose public utilities would be the first palce authorizes would reclaim. If you’re squatting they may not knock. I also think you must have enough people in your party to secure the structure. You will be tested by everyone that finds or knows about the place.


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## Ordnanceman (Oct 19, 2013)

Co Workers are sadly head stuck in the sand.We have a federal prison just out of town with emergency prep infrastructure that I think the Small Town Importants would use.Turn the convicts out and use the facility to run operations.Its actually been talked about...The State Guard would probably be my worst problem as they try to keep the H2O flowing for as long as they can.Im the plant operator so I would be useful to them.Im leaning toward a short stay may work but real long term could get ugly.Thanks for the comments!


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

I had heard (only "hear say") the rule for prisons in any SHTF situation was a total lock down. Even if it meant leaving them all to starve in their cells... Can't say as I see a better answer either.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

My former employer had a secure facility in East L.A. that had eight foot concrete walls topped with concertina wire (razor wire) on the entire perimeter, along with complete firefighting equipment (fire monitors - a/k/a water cannons) with its own firefighting water supply. We also had our own firefighting brigade with our own trucks, and everyone with full bunker gear, full fire suits, firefighting foam, closed circuit TVs throughout the facility, and concrete and steel buildings with fire doors, including doors that slam shut equipped with fusible links, and completely equipped with fire sprinklers and nitrogen blanketing in certain areas. A portion of the facility is also explosion proof, with Fike suppression and nitrogen.

During the Rodney King riots, LAPD and the County Sheriff commandeered our building. I got a call from the facility manager and he wanted to know what to do. I told him to cooperate fully.

You should check with your employer. If you're a waste water treatment operator, you are certified, and subject to emergency response call out. Your employer may want you there. Bringing your family may be permissible - I authorized employees to rally at our facility and bring immediate family and pets. They were allowed to occupy offices and use the kitchen/break room and change room facilities (showers, sinks and toilets).

But state and local laws have to be reviewed.

My actions were challenged by someone higher up than me in the hierarchy, who failed to answer his emergency phone, but demanded that I be fired. My actions were reviewed by the top lawyer in our companies, who backed me up completely and said I had done everything exactly right. The muckety-muck who called for my head ended up getting fired after we were issued commendations from the Highway Patrol, County, and Mayor's offices for helping shelter law enforcement and fire/EMS during the riots. Guy was a real pinhead....

So it can be done, but check on local and State, and even Federal, requirements, first....


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## Ordnanceman (Oct 19, 2013)

I certainly dont know the 'real" protocol but rumours around town got so bad Homeland Sec came to a council meeting to assure our safety, stressing that it is a medium security prison...Who knows what would really happen.. I do wonder if it would be worth it to try stand ground and possibly face a fight or bug out and miss it alltogether...lots of thoughts bouncin around. Who knew living would be this hard.....


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## Ordnanceman (Oct 19, 2013)

Thats great info..Thanks . This is a relatively small town, Im a drinking water operator (1MGD) and we have no response protocol other than security lock down and safegaurd dangerous chemicals ..its VERY weak.Bringing the family would be permissable but who knows when the feds eventually get involved.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

You're welcome!

Yeah, if you are working at a drinking water facility, you will be operating under state of emergency procedures first. Your facility will be secured fairly quickly if it is fully functional.

I worked Katrina. We pulled 40 people off rooftops on Day One with air boats until we were ordered to stop because we were being shot at by gangbangers taking over certain areas....

The first request we got from the Government leaders was for fresh water. Not for drinking, though - for showers.

Guys working 14 hour shifts in August heat and humidity first want a cold drink, a hot meal, and then a warm shower. Especially if they have been wearing soft armor vests and wading in the toxic soup all day.

Book it that your facility will be secured early on....


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Ordnanceman said:


> I certainly dont know the 'real" protocol but rumours around town got so bad Homeland Sec came to a council meeting to assure our safety, stressing that it is a medium security prison...Who knows what would really happen.. I do wonder if it would be worth it to try stand ground and possibly face a fight or bug out and miss it alltogether...lots of thoughts bouncin around. Who knew living would be this hard.....


IMO, Your whole family can be thankful your thinking it through as much as possible _before_ your all faced with needing to make last second, snap decisions! Well done!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Last place I would want to be is a government building.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

On the flip side since you work there when it is resecured you would easily be a valuable entity with resonable cause to be there could work in your favor if survival is all you care about. It would however be difficult to secure.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

After you told us a little more about your situation, I have changed my opinion. You, my friend are SCREWHOOHOOHOOD. They are going to require you stay, and maybe you will be able to bring in your family, I dunno. You will probably be supplied with security, at least for awhile, but you won't be allowed any weapons for defense, so if the security is gone, there you are, you and your family maybe, sitting ducks. I'd think real hard about how big of a SHTF situation your are facing, because the way you are talking the town politicians and big wigs are talking about turning the prisoners lose? Really? I'd be GONE if the shit really came down.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Already a lot of excellent advice from other posters.


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## Southern Dad (Nov 26, 2012)

I think it is a good idea in theory but as has been earlier pointed out you could have an issue with the water supply being one of the first things reclaimed by the authorities. My idea for bug out is as remote as possible. However, bugging out could have stages. (1) Bug out at home in the even of short term issue or preparing for longer term. (2) Temporary bug out until you can gather group for longer term bug out. (3) Final bug out location where you plan to live until society is rebuilt.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Prisons in the event of SHTF how many staff are going to go to work instead of staying around to take care of theirs instead of yours? Are you planning on caring for theirs? Medium security lockdown in this situation is a matter of cooperation. How much ammo do you think is in a tower or perimeter vehicle? Measures in place to stop one to four escapees are not going to do much against a population heading for the fence. Proximity if you are close you will probably be engaged by large groups some of whom may have armed themselves at the prison armory. Further out the groups will be smaller through break up or attrition but chances are they will have equipped themselves with whatever they have looted and stolen along the way. They are not supermen but stealing and murder are what they do.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

retired guard said:


> Prisons in the event of SHTF how many staff are going to go to work instead of staying around to take care of theirs instead of yours? Are you planning on caring for theirs? Medium security lockdown in this situation is a matter of cooperation. How much ammo do you think is in a tower or perimeter vehicle? Measures in place to stop one to four escapees are not going to do much against a population heading for the fence. Proximity if you are close you will probably be engaged by large groups some of whom may have armed themselves at the prison armory. Further out the groups will be smaller through break up or attrition but chances are they will have equipped themselves with whatever they have looted and stolen along the way. They are not supermen but stealing and murder are what they do.


Quite true. And guards could simply just walk away to see to their own families.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Would it hurt to ask them now and see how they respond? If you tell them what you are planning, they might think it's a good idea and plan on bringing their families too. Maybe you could convince them to store a few food supplies too.


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## Ordnanceman (Oct 19, 2013)

I asked the boss about the possibilty of bugging at the plant in a "situation" today.The response was pretty much like "if the shtf i will be long gone out of town and forget the plant".I would expect this attitude considering the failure to act from our small town Government.There is NO emergency plan to staff the plant..I asked. After more thoughts and alot of great comments, Im thinking more of bugging out to a predetermined remote location.I appreciate all of your comments.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Ordnanceman said:


> I asked the boss about the possibilty of bugging at the plant in a "situation" today.The response was pretty much like "if the shtf i will be long gone out of town and forget the plant".I would expect this attitude considering the failure to act from our small town Government.There is NO emergency plan to staff the plant..I asked. After more thoughts and alot of great comments, Im thinking more of bugging out to a predetermined remote location.I appreciate all of your comments.


I thinks that's best. The national guard/fema *should* have people already designated to help or run these plants. 
If they're not going to put military guards in place to protect the plant *AND ME*, I'm bugging out. 
No matter what, I would definitely make sure my family, and then the plant is safe and secure before returning.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If you decided to stay with the plant you would be at the mercy of the DHS or TSA for the duration. They could hold your family to get you to follow any order given.


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## MtnPapa (Oct 12, 2013)

In my humble opinion, it seems to me like the places that have the best resources, and security, will be the first place everyone would go. Getting away from the mass desperation is always wise in a crisis/shtf scenario. Perhaps having a plan to utilize those resources as leverage for as long as possible, but you should have another bug out location that is more secluded, and remote, to avoid putting yourself, and your family at risk of desperate people trying to get what you have. Just food for thought...

mtnpapa


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

You have 10 minutes warning of an all out nuclear attack - What can you do to survive?


There is a reasonable answer that nearly everyone use to survive this event - but few would even think about it or know that it exists.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

PaulS said:


> You have 10 minutes warning of an all out nuclear attack - What can you do to survive?
> 
> There is a reasonable answer that nearly everyone use to survive this event - but few would even think about it or know that it exists.


Tape all doors and windows shut, then live off preps for as long as I could until the radiation levels went down?

What's the answer?


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Boakyagb


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Every city (OK, most) has underground power lines that are buried at least 12 feet underground. In Seattle the access points are all marked "Seattle Light" and use a cheap padlock to keep folks out. Take your BOB and a long screwdriver, snap the lock and go underground. Go as far as you have to to get at least two 90 degree turns between you and where you came in at. Sit tight for 72 hours and then come out. With a modern nuke the radiation will be back to background levels and you can then get to your BOL or see if anything of your home is still usable. Stay away from any food in metal containers and don't eat anything growing in the surrounding areas.


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## sargedog (Nov 12, 2012)

I live 5 minutes from a 3 million gallon water tank. I actually cut the road into it, there are probably only about 50 people even know its there. It is hidden by the trees, the road in is very narrow and doesn't look like it leads to anywhere. Even if it is empty there is at least 3,000 gallons in the bottom that could be tapped into for emergencies if it was a situation where is't a total SHTF deal.


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