# some questions about solar panels,,,,



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm working on a project and I need some information.
I picked up this solar panel and here is what it says on the back. 
My question,, I'm not sure bit I think this a panel for grid tie in. Can it be used for 12 volt 
If use I a good controller?


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## BullseyePrecision (Jun 10, 2014)

Your controller would need to do 24v. You just need two 12 volt batteries for it to charge. Then run your 12v item from one battery.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

BullseyePrecision said:


> Your controller would need to do 24v. You just need two 12 volt batteries for it to charge. Then run your 12v item from one battery.


So this panel was made for grid tie in?


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## BullseyePrecision (Jun 10, 2014)

You can tie any panel into the grid with the right set up. If you do the work yourself you need to let your electric company know what your doing.


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## BullseyePrecision (Jun 10, 2014)

Why do you think it was made especially for grid tie in?


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

There is no specific panel for grid tie. Its the controller setup that determines grid tie or off grid. Power companies usually require a mininum for grid tie which is normally 3KW.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

BullseyePrecision said:


> Why do you think it was made especially for grid tie in?


 Well it says 29.44 volts and the only thing I have ever seen on 12 volt solar panel was 21.60

I want to make sure I can use them before I buy them.


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## BullseyePrecision (Jun 10, 2014)

What are you doing exactly?


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm not interested in grid tie in. 
I'm more like getting ready for no grid to tie into. 
I'm only interested in off grid power. 
And when I look at solar panels they list 12 volt panels and grid tie in panels as being different.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

BullseyePrecision said:


> What are you doing exactly?


Sorry I'm looking to use these for 12 volt system. to charge a 12 volt battery


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## BullseyePrecision (Jun 10, 2014)

If your going to be completely off the grid any panel will be fine. if you still are connected to the grid and don't want the panel to be, you will need two systems the first one you're grid power and everything that is ran from it and the second your solar with stuff ran solely from it. If you want to have everything on both it has to be connected with the grid and an inverter installed that way when the grid goes off your solar power comes on.


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## BullseyePrecision (Jun 10, 2014)

It would be alot easier if I was there helping you lol.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

If you want a 12VDC system then get 12VDC solar panels. DC voltage has a serious power loss in distance. So if there is a long run between the where the panels are & the controller & batteries. Then a 24VDC may be more cost effective because can use less expensive, lower gauge wire.

101 Wire Loss Chart


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

BullseyePrecision said:


> If your going to be completely off the grid any panel will be fine. if you still are connected to the grid and don't want the panel to be, you will need two systems the first one you're grid power and everything that is ran from it and the second your solar with stuff ran solely from it. If you want to have everything on both it has to be connected with the grid and an inverter installed that way when the grid goes off your solar power comes on.


 I have a small set up now that has an 1500/3000 inverter I can flip a few switches and all the small stuff like regular 120 volt house lights,TV,radio and stuff 
run just fine without the grid power. Everything but my water pump, refrigerator and close dryer there just to much draw for my set up. 
but my solar system is not hook up to the grid in any way.

I'm working on a 12 volt water system with a -camper sure flo -pump that will tie into the pluming I have now
I figure when TSHTF If I have running water-hot and cold- and lights without the grid I should be able to live somewhat in comfort.

I like the idea of being able to take a hot shower and flush the toilet with the lights on with no grid power
And it doesn't take a big set up to do that.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Can I ask a stupid question?-
Why aren't solar panels on the roof of every house in the world? I mean, we're talking FREE energy from the sun aren't we, so why doesn't everybody have panels?


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## Coppertop (Dec 20, 2013)

Lucky Jim said:


> Can I ask a stupid question?-
> Why aren't solar panels on the roof of every house in the world? I mean, we're talking FREE energy from the sun aren't we, so why doesn't everybody have panels?


$$$$$- is all I can think of


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Lucky Jim said:


> Can I ask a stupid question?-
> Why aren't solar panels on the roof of every house in the world? I mean, we're talking FREE energy from the sun aren't we, so why doesn't everybody have panels?


 I think the big oil company's have something to say about that.

a better question is why don't most all preppers have at least one 100 watt solar panel and a low cost controller?
Without the cost of batteries for $150 you can have everything you need to charge up 1 maybe 2 batteries in a day. 
You would be surprised what you can do with a couple car batteries. 
And please before someone tells you can't use car batteries and you must have deep cycle batteries,
I'm looking at how to do things post SHTF---No stores or any place to buy anything. 
And that is not a stupid question.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Can I ask a stupid question?-
> Why aren't solar panels on the roof of every house in the world? I mean, we're talking FREE energy from the sun aren't we, so why doesn't everybody have panels?


The number of panels you need to supply the needs of the typical house hold would require a rather extensive array and with the cost of panels being what it is, that's a pretty substantial outlay of cash up front, more than what most can afford. Plus the other factor that increases the need for an extensive array of panels is the fact that you only get about 6 hours of prime time sun here in North Texas on a good sunny day. What that means in layman terms is your 100 watt panel in reality is only going to give you close to that 100 watts of production for just a few hours a day, the rest of the day light hours you will be doing good to get half that much production. Then if you live some place where Hail is a issue like we do here in Texas, that can damage your panels and make maintaining your array kind of expensive as well. Its really not a exceptional method of power generation or the most cost efficient method of power generation. The panels have about a 20 year life span before needing to be replaced and the batteries on the battery banks only last about 5 years before you need to start replacing batteries which are expensive and heavy further defraying your cost to operate. This is why many systems are grid tied and instead of producing all your power you make a good bit of it on good sunny days and save a little on your electric bill...this can significantly stretch out the time needed for your panels to actually pay for themselves and give you a net profit in return for your efforts. Now this can be defrayed by many programs available in some areas for tax deductions on property tax and some of the better programs can actually reimburse you for about 50% or so of your initial outlay in up front cost. While solar power can be a boon for many, its often something that looks much better on paper than it does in reality for the typical American House Hold.

For example in sunny Southern California I was living on my 37ft boat and had 8 x 120 watt panels hooked up to 2 x 250 amp Hour batteries and despite the very efficient use of power found that this was often lacking even when I didn't use the Radar or run the electric stove or the hot water heater. However with a combination of the panels and a mast mounted 400 watt Windmill generator that produces power anytime there is more than 7 knots of wind, I could usually keep enough power on hand to keep up with my daily consumption when not hooked up to shore power. Had I been in Seattle where its not bright and sunny everyday and in fact is often over cast most of the year...this likely wouldn't have been even a remote possibility except for temp power outages. Like in my situation with the boat....most will find that you need a combination of sources to really get by on a consistent basis. In my case it was Solar and Wind and I got enough of the two in combination that it WAS a viable option for me. Most in the US wont be that fortunate.

Think about it...if solar power where really all that and a bag of chips cost efficient wise, everyone would be scrambling to put panels every where they could and the power company would be out of business! While its a great option in many places if your super electricity efficient, for the typical American house hold in most areas of the US, its just not a reliable cost efficient answer to your power needs. Granted most house holds dont conserve nearly as much as they could but that's besides the point.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Lucky Jim said:


> Can I ask a stupid question?-
> Why aren't solar panels on the roof of every house in the world? I mean, we're talking FREE energy from the sun aren't we, so why doesn't everybody have panels?


High cost and abysmal efficiency.
Yes, the energy is "free", but the infrastructure to utilize it is far from it, and the energy conversion is terrible since most of the energy just heats up the panels.
A buddy of mine who actually got his degree in researching and building PV cells told me the best they could get in a lab was ~20% efficiency.
Compared to burning fossil fuels, it doesn't make sense as long as fuel is this cheap.


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

Solar + Wind + Hydro = ideal way to get electric
Geothermal = best way to get heat

Greenland, Iceland and various other Scandinavian Islands (Åland, Färoarna etc) have been doing this for a few decades, and aside from vehicles (cars/trucks/boats/planes) of any description, they have no dependence on fossil fuels.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

We have been using solar power since the beginning of time. Plants use the sun light to combine materials in the ground and air in to combustible materials that we can use to heat our homes and run our cars. Plus they can take the same materials and produce food. Plus plants are self containing and reproduce where as a solar panel has a limited life. Solar panels have a very good use but for real long time SHTF situation learning to use nature is your best bet.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Depressing I Have Been Fantasysing About Putting In A Solar System To Run A Portion Of My Home. These Last Few Posts Are Making Me Rethink. I Know My Solar Capacity Is Limited Here In Mid Michigan. I Have Average Monthly Use Of 640 Kw Hours Per Month And 375 On The Low And 1000Plus In February. 

I Have Looked At All Kinds Of Stuff And Would Like To Know How Many Panels And Batteries To Get Lights And Electrical Sockets Off The Power From Consumers..


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Can I ask a stupid question?-
> Why aren't solar panels on the roof of every house in the world? I mean, we're talking FREE energy from the sun aren't we, so why doesn't everybody have panels?


 They cost far more than the pay back ,they done last and can not be manufactured at a low enough cost to sell with out Obama cash.
Simple terms they do not really work that well.
What our local school put up would have paid the entire electric bill longer than the panels will last.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I Have Been Piddleing Around With A Solar Calculator.
We Use 640 Average Kwh Per Month.
Our Sun Light Availability Is 4.2 Hours Average.
In Order To Get A Solar Array And Battery Set Charge Controller Wiring Etc With No Install It Would Be Between Twenty Five And Thirty Thousand From What I Read. 
With Our Electric Bill Ranging Between Seventy Five And One Fifty A Month. That Makes.The Pay Back.

Never.


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## BullseyePrecision (Jun 10, 2014)

Best way to go is wind with about 1/4 solar.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

alterego said:


> Depressing I Have Been Fantasysing About Putting In A Solar System To Run A Portion Of My Home. These Last Few Posts Are Making Me Rethink. I Know My Solar Capacity Is Limited Here In Mid Michigan. I Have Average Monthly Use Of 640 Kw Hours Per Month And 375 On The Low And 1000Plus In February.
> 
> I Have Looked At All Kinds Of Stuff And Would Like To Know How Many Panels And Batteries To Get Lights And Electrical Sockets Off The Power From Consumers..


How big a place you got. I assume it's not just a house.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

BullseyePrecision said:


> Best way to go is wind with about 1/4 solar.


Might be best choice for you but where I live a wind turbine would be a waste of money. Less then 1% of the time would have enough wind to operate a turbine & that would be short storms.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

paraquack said:


> How big a place you got. I assume it's not just a house.


1768 Square Foot Ranch. But The Winter Time Bills Are Exasperating Because Of The Electric Cow Water Tank Heater And The Heat Lamp In The Chicken Coop.


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## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

alterego said:


> 1768 Square Foot Ranch. But The Winter Time Bills Are Exasperating Because Of The Electric Cow Water Tank Heater And The Heat Lamp In The Chicken Coop.


I don't know what your winter temps are, but could you use a bubbler in the water tank? I have seen them used in some areas.
Don't have an answer for the heat lamp, though.


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

US restrictions on solar remind me of the above.


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