# Guns more in focus in Sweden



## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Well, just a short thing about sweden & guns. Here we have much stricter rules then the US, but by and large way more guns then most of the EU. 

Now EU wants to reduce the number of LEGAL weapons after the paris shootings (those weapons were illegal). ANd these rules would affect Sweden. So now for the first time I have seen several facebookstatuses from swedes that says no to this and takes a stand for our rules as they are. That never happend before, guns were not an issue at all, there were rules and by and large people were ok with them. 

The new rules would among other things demand every hunter to go to a doctor and prove that he is mentally stable to keep his guns. 

This is to reduce crime they say. Guess how many crimes were commited by legal guns in Sweden between 2000 - 2010? Wrong, only 2 crimes (that was serious enough and could resoult in prison) were commited with legal guns during a whole decade. And this in a country with over 2 million legal guns. 

But the rules are not yet decided upon and there is growing restience


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

SS, do you not realize and or see the UN and its supporters want to disarm everyone in the world.
The world will be easier to control then, those in power can remain there and become the new royals.
There is no rational in the anti gun solution on crime, only people control.
They really don't give a shit about a few hundred of even thousands people, they use these incidents for raw political control.
How many tens of millions have died because of greed and politics over the last two centuries?
They are smarter now, consolidating, planning to strip the world populous of any means of resistance.
How many less would have died if some were armed in Paris, instead of being targets able to fight back.
The EU was a first step in the consolidation of power to one group of the hierarchy moving to rule all..
Even here they are using the Paris incident to try and take the guns, what the hell does that place have to do with here?
NOTHING, more attempts to take away our rights, CONTROL, CONTROL.
You people had better move on your government to break out of the EU before you become like France and Greece.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> SS, do you not realize and or see the UN and its supporters want to disarm everyone in the world.
> The world will be easier to control it then, those in power can remain and become the new royals.
> There is no rational in the anti gun solution on crime, only people control.
> They really don't give a shit about a few people, they use incident for raw control.
> ...


Oh, the EU in it self is under huge pressure. There is many that think that it might break down and the diffrent nations takes diffrent paths. I would see that as a good thing, do not like EU and voted against it when there was a vote back in the days. And the new suggested rules are really hard to defend if one looks closer, they make no sence and that probably mean that they will back off for now if it gets to much attention, they are as politicians worried to, no EU equals less money for them.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

at least the criminals will still be able to own and carry.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

XMULE said:


> at least the criminals will still be able to own and carry.


but that is good, they know that terrorist are bad for buissness so we can trust the criminals to fight the terrorists, right?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

As long as you and your fellow citizens are not included in the criminal's listing of targeted terrorists.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

I might add that there is some truth to that thing about criminals vs terrorists, in Denmark there has been for some time a war between Hells Angels and muslim immigrant gangs. (Denmark has harder gun control then Sweden)

THE PATRIOT. : Hell's Angels fight back against muslim immigrant jihad gangs.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

Swede.. Funny you post this today. I happened across this video today related to this very subject.








Swedishsocialist said:


> Well, just a short thing about sweden & guns. Here we have much stricter rules then the US, but by and large way more guns then most of the EU.
> 
> Now EU wants to reduce the number of LEGAL weapons after the paris shootings (those weapons were illegal). ANd these rules would affect Sweden. So now for the first time I have seen several facebookstatuses from swedes that says no to this and takes a stand for our rules as they are. That never happend before, guns were not an issue at all, there were rules and by and large people were ok with them.
> 
> ...


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> I might add that there is some truth to that thing about criminals vs terrorists, in Denmark there has been for some time a war between Hells Angels and muslim immigrant gangs. (Denmark has harder gun control then Sweden)
> 
> THE PATRIOT. : Hell's Angels fight back against muslim immigrant jihad gangs.


Swede a good prep for you might be to get a motorcycle and join the Hell's Angels.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Mosinator762x54r said:


> Swede.. Funny you post this today. I happened across this video today related to this very subject.


He makes good points. I do not know about the rules in Poland, but I do think they have tougher politicans, they are also a bigger nation (if you count the number of people) and have more influence.

But the person behind the video is part of a growing campaign against the new rules, that is good.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Swede a good prep for you might be to get a motorcycle and join the Hell's Angels.


well.. no, that sounds like a terrible ide actually


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> well.. no, that sounds like a terrible ide actually


Just know your government will not make a successful stand for you.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Just know your government will not make a successful stand for you.


ANd that is why I prepp  I would not trust HA for that matter, even less then our goverment actually.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

He is based in Slovenia. Not sure why the name is what it is, but I assumed he was Poland as well, but the Youtube "About" page definitely states they are in Slovenia.



Swedishsocialist said:


> He makes good points. I do not know about the rules in Poland, but I do think they have tougher politicans, they are also a bigger nation (if you count the number of people) and have more influence.
> 
> But the person behind the video is part of a growing campaign against the new rules, that is good.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> ANd that is why I prepp  I would not trust HA for that matter, even less then our goverment actually.


Once again, Swede you missed the dry American sense of humor pitched at you...... but you are getting better!


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Once again, Swede you missed the dry American sense of humor pitched at you...... but you are getting better!


well, here were I live it is 02.25 in the night and I am kind of tierd, so I think there is a lot of things I might miss. And on the news I just learnd about a class 2 storm hitting my area in a few hours, should not be a problem but we will see about that.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

They are trying that same crap here... I make it a point to keep buying guns when I can and if they want them they will have to TAKE them 1 bullet at a time


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I find this kind of ironic. A socialist balking at the thought of legal gun owners having their firearms taken. The more time Swede spends here at PF the more conservative he becomes


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

More regulation always results in less freedom. The promised security is an illusion with only 2 gun crimes with legal guns in a decade. Hang tough Swedishsocialist. Citizens own guns. Subjects and slaves do not.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Arklatex said:


> I find this kind of ironic. A socialist balking at the thought of legal gun owners having their firearms taken. The more time Swede spends here at PF the more conservative he becomes


There are many brands/types of socialism but for the most part socialiste are pro gun ownership for the ordenary people. Socialist do not see a situation were the wealthy and those that protect them (cops, army, security forces) as a good thing, the arming of the "regular Joe" is a necessity so that he might protect himself (or her).

Socialist Party on Gun Control


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Swedishsocialist said:


> There are many brands/types of socialism but for the most part socialiste are pro gun ownership for the ordenary people. Socialist do not see a situation were the wealthy and those that protect them (cops, army, security forces) as a good thing, the arming of the "regular Joe" is a necessity so that he might protect himself (or her).
> 
> Socialist Party on Gun Control


Where socialism already exists, guns are fine. The control system is already in place. Where socialism is being forced on an unwilling society, guns must be demonized, ostracized, and banned. Else the "dream" can never be realized.
What you are dealing with is a reactionary move from frightened simpletons who don't base their decisions on logic, but rather on emotion. They can't differentiate between good and bad. Anything used for bad must ,in fact, *be* bad, and must be banned. Tough it out. That force is generally low energy, and collapses quickly.
Ours is a different struggle. Though they use similar tactics, their end goals are quite different.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Where socialism already exists, guns are fine. The control system is already in place. Where socialism is being forced on an unwilling society, guns must be demonized, ostracized, and banned. Else the "dream" can never be realized.
> What you are dealing with is a reactionary move from frightened simpletons who don't base their decisions on logic, but rather on emotion. They can't differentiate between good and bad. Anything used for bad must ,in fact, *be* bad, and must be banned. Tough it out. That force is generally low energy, and collapses quickly.
> Ours is a different struggle. Though they use similar tactics, their end goals are quite different.


well, I do think that you mess up socialism with communism, even if there are socialist thinkers and speakers that argues in that regard. The major point is more that when a society is more equal => crime will be less common, people will be and will feel safer => the need/desire for guns will diminish. To counter that it is important with mandaory military service so that most people (or most men) learn to deal with military weapons.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Some american hardcore maoist socialists views on guns in USA, his point is that the american people should be armed.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Swedishsocialist said:


> There are many brands/types of socialism but for the most part socialiste are pro gun ownership for the ordenary people. Socialist do not see a situation were the wealthy and those that protect them (cops, army, security forces) as a good thing, the arming of the "regular Joe" is a necessity so that he might protect himself (or her).
> 
> Socialist Party on Gun Control


Lmao. Your link is based on what American socialists think in regards to our Constitution. Now go back to your link and read the other views.

Socialism doesn't work. Never has, never will. Even in its purest form it doesn't work.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Arklatex said:


> Lmao. Your link is based on what American socialists think in regards to our Constitution. Now go back to your link and read the other views.
> 
> Socialism doesn't work. Never has, never will. Even in its purest form it doesn't work.


Oh keep telling yourself that, tell it often so you keep beliving it, it is what your 0,1% master tells you to


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Swedishsocialist said:


> Oh keep telling yourself that, tell it often so you keep beliving it, it is what your 0,1% master tells you to


Ok. Show us an example of when it has worked. The problem is that you always run out of other people's stuff.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Arklatex said:


> Ok. Show us an example of when it has worked. The problem is that you always run out of other people's stuff.


Have you played monoply? Thats captitalism, it ends when you run out of other peoples stuff and one owns all. Kind of like the us of today wouldnt you say?

Well, Sweden works, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Japan and so on (they are all way more socialistic then present US). Heck, 1950s USA were way more socialistic then present US,did things not work then?


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I'm off to work, I have some more for you later when I get off. For now I'll leave you with this.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Arklatex said:


> I'm off to work, I have some more for you later when I get off. For now I'll leave you with this.
> 
> View attachment 13717


Ah off to work, is it your first, second or third work I wounder? You exeptional americans seems to work ALOT to make ends meet  And if you ever tire of making the rich richer, they will replace you swiftly, so keep beliving you are free and take your meds as orderd


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Swedishsocialist said:


> ...1950s USA were way more socialistic then present US,did things not work then?


SS,

Please explain how 1950's USA was more socialistic than present USA? That one makes no sense to me.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

SS,

I'm beginning to think you really don't know what Socialism means.

Below is the definition of Socialism (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Slippy said:


> SS,
> 
> Please explain how 1950's USA was more socialistic than present USA? That one makes no sense to me.


you taxed the rich way harder and used the money to improve roads & etc. Workers did get a better life by and by and more free time. Those were the days.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Slippy said:


> SS,
> 
> I'm beginning to think you really don't know what Socialism means.
> 
> ...


well, the socialism I advocate is more in the line of tax those that have the means of production high enough that we have a society were all people have an fair chance, see to it that those that try & fail have a social securitynet to fall into, give all young people the means to develop their skills if they so wishes, build a society were the diffrence betwwen the classes are small and were one can move up in throu the classes, or down, high social mobility.

That is for me a good society and socialism "light".

the state should absolutley own things like powerplants & powerlines so they are keept in good order.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

You're cherry picking to suit your agenda.

Post war production capacity was huge. Jobs were readily available. Literacy was high, and the middle class was exploding. Infrastructure was being built, debt vs GDP was low ( compared to now ). 

Interest rates were high, a return on investment could be had. Home prices were such that property (private thank you) was an investment in itself.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

XMULE said:


> You're cherry picking to suit your agenda.
> 
> Post war production capacity was huge. Jobs were readily available. Literacy was high, and the middle class was exploding. Infrastructure was being built, debt vs GDP was low ( compared to now ).
> 
> Interest rates were high, a return on investment could be had. Home prices were such that property (private thank you) was an investment in itself.


Well, you see, keeping low GDP /debt ratio, good infrastructure and such is much easier when you tax enough to pay for what you use. You chose to tax the rich less and pay more to their companies and borrow more and more. Well, it was not so much a choise from your part, it was what they (the rich) paid for, and was delivierd throu corrupt politicians. And from my POW US of today is not a captalist system, it is an oligarcy. In a captialist system there would be way more opportnites for those with skills, and way more punishment for companies that screws up.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

Anyway you're ignoring Folkhemmet.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

XMULE said:


> Anyway you're ignoring Folkhemmet.


am I?, how?


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

Lol the capitalist component. The push for a middle ground vs a socialist totalitarian state. In your view, it seems like you are achieving that balance. To a US citizen, not so much.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

XMULE said:


> Lol the capitalist component. The push for a middle ground vs a socialist totalitarian state. In your view, it seems like you are achieving that balance. To a US citizen, not so much.


hmm.. so you are telling me all americans think alike? One nation, one mind? 

Is that the mind of the rothcilds or the Kochs?


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

I've never had a problem getting work. Never. I have no college education. I never completed a high school math course, not even remedial. I've made over 100 grand in a year ( I am not now). No one is holding out their hand to me, nor have they ever, my parents were in no position. I should not be forced to give. I donate, small amounts, and work in a community garden for the food pantry. I don't need to be forced. I signed a contract, my oath to the constitution, and when I feel that contract is null and void due to an "oligarchy" taking the profits of my work by force, I will leave. I don't feel like I am there yet.

I should add, I don't need a socialist state replacing the oligarchy that takes the profit of my labor.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

There is no "one American citizen" as much as daytime tv would like to create it. We better be careful, or we will create a " one world citizen" who works 14 hours a day, and can't afford one pair of the jeans they are making.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

XMULE said:


> I've never had a problem getting work. Never. I have no college education. I never completed a high school math course, not even remedial. I've made over 100 grand in a year ( I am not now). No one is holding out their hand to me, nor have they ever, my parents were in no position. I should not be forced to give. I donate, small amounts, and work in a community garden for the food pantry. I don't need to be forced. I signed a contract, my oath to the constitution, and when I feel that contract is null and void due to an "oligarchy" taking the profits of my work by force, I will leave. I don't feel like I am there yet.


sounds like you are a man (I assume you are anyway) with a good mind and that get things done. That is good. But I do think you, and all other that makes money should be forced to pay (by taxes, and you are forced to pay taxes even if you are taxed less then your swedish counterpart) so the society at large can thrive and develope.

As for example, here we have free education at our universitys, and that is not because it is a nice thing to do, or fair or something like that. It is because we have no choise. We are a small nation and we compete sucessfully in lots of areas on the global markets, our wellfare depends on that. We cant depend on our international might to make deals or such, our competitors are alwas "stronger" and has more political influence. So we must offer a better deal, and to do that we need as many as possible of our best and brightest to become engineers and such. If they would have to opt out because they cant afford it, well, then we all suffer. So we have free education even at universitys, we do not have the luxury of making the students pay.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

And, everyone is different. My GF would love the socialist Sweden model of governance.

I can steal from or fight the state, or serve its interest in war, either way, my family would be proud. Weird, huh? That's the US. Not mindless drones yet.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

I will type slower. I'm confusing this by jumping ahead. Sorry. Lol.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Swedishsocialist said:


> you taxed the rich way harder and used the money to improve roads & etc. Workers did get a better life by and by and more free time. Those were the days.


While Federal Income Tax Rates were much higher in the 1950's, nobody (except 3 of the highest paid people in the World at that time, Willie Mays, Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio paid anywhere near those rates). Deductions were abundant in the Federal Tax Code at that time and the middle class of working Americans was extremely large as a % of the whole.

Now, many American's pay NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES And our welfare system is HUGE. Not so in the 1950's. There were many other factors like less regulation and a healthy manufacturing economy. Most if not all of our Federal Taxes stayed in the US. Not so today.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> sounds like you are a man (I assume you are anyway) with a good mind and that get things done. That is good. But I do think you, and all other that makes money should be forced to pay (by taxes, and you are forced to pay taxes even if you are taxed less then your swedish counterpart) so the society at large can thrive and develope.
> 
> As for example, here we have free education at our universitys, and that is not because it is a nice thing to do, or fair or something like that. It is because we have no choise. We are a small nation and we compete sucessfully in lots of areas on the global markets, our wellfare depends on that. We cant depend on our international might to make deals or such, our competitors are alwas "stronger" and has more political influence. So we must offer a better deal, and to do that we need as many as possible of our best and brightest to become engineers and such. If they would have to opt out because they cant afford it, well, then we all suffer. So we have free education even at universitys, we do not have the luxury of making the students pay.


And that makes sense, and sounds necessary and good. I have no problem with taxes, for defense, or social security for those who have payed in, or infrastructure. I pay property taxes for the local education system, that's great.

I have no empathy for those who choose to underacheive, or not work, or frankly, those who cannot due to "society" keeping them down. My circumstances were not so much better. Sorry, some of them might die, of starvation or disease. That's life. Am a cruel? In a social sense for not giving to beggars? That's socialism in my mind, someone telling me I have to give them something I worked for. Happens in the US too, I know, but it's not supposed to. That's socialism, creeping in.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

XMULE said:


> And that makes sense, and sounds necessary and good. I have no problem with taxes, for defense, or social security for those who have payed in, or infrastructure. I pay property taxes for the local education system, that's great.
> 
> I have no empathy for those who choose to underacheive, or not work, or frankly, those who cannot due to "society" keeping them down. My circumstances were not so much better. *Sorry, some of them might die, of starvation or disease.* That's life. Am a cruel? In a social sense for not giving to beggars? That's socialism in my mind, someone telling me I have to give them something I worked for. Happens in the US too, I know, but it's not supposed to. That's socialism, creeping in.


Well, see it from this perspecive, in a area with people starving and diseases going arond.... well they spread. People must now focus and security way more then before. They will also get more sick, and that costs a lot of money and suffering. And those that have diseases or starve, well, they are not bringing in any money nor happines nor nothing but misery. People without healtcare becomes a liablity for the society because at some point they will transmit diseases to others. Well not a ceartenty, but a risk


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Sweden has about 9.8 million people right? How many of them are on 100% state funded welfare? (Food, Housing, etc)

Also, how many illegal immigrants does Sweden have? What about crime? In the US the majority of crime is committed by young black men. How many young black men does Sweden have? 

The US has over 300 million people and estimated to have upwards of 30-40 million illegals. Almost 50% of people do not pay taxes in the US. The US has 92 million people of working age that are not working. 

Just a few differences in the two nations.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

And specifically, allow me to be rude and ask you, SS, what is your situation? What are you receiving from the government? If you are receiving the benefits of your system, it better not be nothing.

Healthcare?

Housing?

Car?

Food? Does the government subsidize part of your heating or food bills? In any way?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Sweden has about 9.8 million people right? How many of them are on 100% state funded welfare? (Food, Housing, etc)
> 
> Also, how many illegal immigrants does Sweden have? What about crime? In the US the majority of crime is committed by young black men. How many young black men does Sweden have?
> 
> ...


You cannot compare the two countries in any manner, 
what assumedly works for a small country only slightly bigger than one of our smaller states is absurd. 
The socialist types of handouts to "minority" slugs here have crippled this country.
Most of those types have never worked and will never work because they believe they are "owed" what they get.
Supplying an education to someone who will use it is one thing, giving one to someone who can't even graduate from high school is another.
Yes, in some big "minority" cities, they get a diploma, but they can't even read what is on it.
Primary objective of most of those "minority women, is to find sperm donors with the deposits timed to deliver right after graduation, putting them on the state meal ticket.
A perfect transition, from mothers welfare to their own in one easy seamless step.
Then grandma gets the illegitimate kid to rear because mammie is to busy partying it up with taxpayer dollars.
This debacle was conceived and built by liberals, working to build a voting base to perpetuate their parties rule at the expense of the country.

How about we send SS 10% per capita ratio some of our poor underprivileged "minority slugs"?
Perhaps his socialist utopia can motivate them to become productive citizens.
Naw, his taxes would just go up more to pay for the deadbeats.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Dear Swede, kindly explain the immoral action of taking from each, according to his ability, and giving to each, according to his need.
While capitalism allows for a few *individuals* to do immoral things, a socialist system demands that *all* be immoral, and demand from others that which they have not earned. Do you feel you are owed benefits which you've done little, if anything, to earn? Or do you believe this is a selfish point of view that your society has moved passed?


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

XMULE said:


> And specifically, allow me to be rude and ask you, SS, what is your situation? What are you receiving from the government? If you are receiving the benefits of your system, it better not be nothing.
> 
> Healthcare?
> 
> ...


The first thing that I/We (Im married) is "Barnbidrag/Childsupport" that is something the gouverment gives to all parents to support the costs of having children. You get around 100 dollars (taxfree) per kid per month. This support is given to you automaticlly and everybody gets it even billionarers if they have kids in the ages 0 - 16. Between the ages 16- 19 you get it as long as the kids stays in school with an ok precence. I repeat here that this money is nothing you have to apply to get, everyone gets it and you can do whatever you want with it. I have 3 kids in those ages so there is some money each month for us.

Healthcare.. well nothing at the moment no. Once I did get a serious concussion in a ridning accident at that point they checked me out and I had to stay there for 24 hours, not that I could do anything else at the time  We have 6 children me and my wife and they have all been born at a hospital without any cost, nobody pays for that and we have internationally wery good childbirthingservicies. 
But some years ago my mother had problems, a heartattac, she was around 70 at the time. 2 or 3 days later they had made a bypassoperation on her, no cost and she did recover fine  That is saftey in it ways. Here nobody worries about the cost of the medical treatment (medicines might have a cost still).

I am also a blooddoner.

Housing, no I live in a townhouse I think you call it. It is in a Co-op built in 1980 and is owned by us that lives here.

Car, no we own our own car. The system works like this here, if you need gouverment handouts you get nothing unless you sell things you own first. You cant own a car and live on our welfare system.

Food, same there. The state gives food to no one, if you are in trouble regarding money and cant pay food/rent they will give you money so you can buy your food after you sold everything (of value), even your guns if you own any.

If you have kids and dont make that much money you are entiteld to more money (bostadsbidrag) if your rent is high (compared to what you pay in rent, how big you live and how many kids you have). many years back we did apply for that support and got it for several years.

Do that answers your question? 

Edit: I might add that people that lives on our social security are obliged to follow their rules and that means they must attend programs or clean diches from thrash and such things if requierd, and they must really be working on that "get a job" thing, they put a lot of pressure on the individual.

Edit again: you are allowed to keep engagementsrings when applying for money from social security, even if they are costly.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

SS,

How many black people are in Sweden?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

We give ours free phones;


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Slippy said:


> SS,
> 
> How many black people are in Sweden?


an increasing number, but there are more and more. They are a concern yes, not that they are escpcially criminal but more like they are buy and large unemployeble. Our last right wing gouverment did say ok for around 40 000 somalis to immigrate to sweden. (****ing retards). We are now stuck with them and they dont do that much use, if any. But of course they drain a lot of our system.


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

Interesting, and thank you for the reply.

I get nothing, and never have. I have never needed to, but there is more to the story, and I will lay it out there. My GF (we have no kids together, she has one in college on student loans, another in early high school) does receive Badger Care, and due to her income as a Doula, food stamps.

I have been living in the condo for three months, and even though it is not required by the state, (we are not married, but let's be honest, I pay most of the bills now) the food stamps are being phased out.

I buy my own groceries, separately. I admit, I might drink milk, or eat some bread bought on her assistance. So, a bit socialist right there. And I feel a twinge of guilt over it, she pretty much believes she is entitled to it. We have talked about it, and she will give it up. Why not? It's not like we are suffering.

I have VA healthcare. I have never used it. I have paid myself for several emergency room visits, rather than drive to a VA center, but... I live closer now. So maybe I would go in.

We also live in a condo, not sure what Co-op means to you.

Sounds like welfare is easier to get here in the States. I know some people who could totally work, but live exclusively on the Government dime, and will never work. They just get a check every month. (I'm not happy to be supporting their lifestyle).

So. Really, Sweden sounds not too bad. I'm with Kauboy, it's a difference of scale, but interesting none the less. 

Congrats on the big family, by the way! Sounds like you are doing well!:smile:


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> an increasing number, but there are more and more. They are a concern yes, not that they are escpcially criminal but more like they are buy and large unemployeble. Our last right wing gouverment did say ok for around 40 000 somalis to immigrate to sweden. (****ing retards). We are now stuck with them and they dont do that much use, if any. But of course they drain a lot of our system.


The seeds of your destruction right there. I've been in Somalia. Good grief.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

XMULE said:


> Interesting, and thank you for the reply.
> 
> I get nothing, and never have. I have never needed to, but there is more to the story, and I will lay it out there. My GF (we have no kids together, she has one in college on student loans, another in early high school) does receive Badger Care, and due to her income as a Doula, food stamps.
> 
> ...


Sweden is a ok place absolutley, for many reasons. The major problem is middle eastern /african immigrants that has arrived in huge numbers, but I guess we have to have our share of misery or or something 

Still, as I understand it swedish and us buissness usually have it kind of easy to make deals, we share the culture of getting down to buissness and get things done.

But just did watch this youtubeclip about the diffrence in us army recruitmentads vs Swedish armys


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Informative post Swede, thanks. Some questions below.



Swedishsocialist said:


> The first thing that I/We (Im married) is "Barnbidrag/Childsupport" that is something the gouverment gives to all parents to support the costs of having children. You get around 100 dollars (taxfree) per kid per month. This support is given to you automaticlly and everybody gets it even billionarers if they have kids in the ages 0 - 16. Between the ages 16- 19 you get it as long as the kids stays in school with an ok precence. I repeat here that this money is nothing you have to apply to get, everyone gets it and you can do whatever you want with it. I have 3 kids in those ages so there is some money each month for us. So the system pays you to have extra kids that become an expense or burden financially on the government. sounds like our free loader system that is used by the deliberate lower class who are there predominately by choice. Not always, but predominately.
> 
> Healthcare.. well nothing at the moment no. Once I did get a serious concussion in a ridning accident at that point they checked me out and I had to stay there for 24 hours, not that I could do anything else at the time  We have 6 children me and my wife and they have all been born at a hospital without any cost, nobody pays for that and we have internationally wery good childbirthingservicies.
> But some years ago my mother had problems, a heartattac, she was around 70 at the time. 2 or 3 days later they had made a bypassoperation on her, no cost and she did recover fine  That is saftey in it ways. Here nobody worries about the cost of the medical treatment (medicines might have a cost still). So it is not "all expenses" paid and has some qualifiers?
> ...


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Sweden

Saved you a bit of trouble, maybe.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

_So the system pays you to have extra kids that become an expense or burden financially on the government. sounds like our free loader system that is used by the deliberate lower class who are there predominately by choice. Not always, but predominately._

Well, the state do need future citizens, we also have the option of paid maternetyleave of 360 paid days per kid (that to a large degree can be split as the parents choose). Our system gives parents a easier time off and our systems pays off that women that have high educations have more children then thier american counterparts, that is not unimportent. 
The system was built to encurage sweds to have children. our birhtrates are usually just below 2.0 kids/women.

_. So it is not "all expenses" paid and has some qualifiers?_ I really dont know get the question... you get medical care and it is paid for by the state. Qualifiers?

_ You get paid extra for this? We do here but it is predominately used by those needing extra cash._ You get no money, but you get a thsirt, or a movieticket, there are some few things of about equal value to chose from.

_ Is their gov supplied housing and who gets it? What percentage own a house?_ No not by the state gov, but towns & cities often own houses that are rented out. Those that get them are those that has qued the longest to get them. Here people on welfare ends up to quite often. But this was more yesterday, today the system is in a heavy gridlock/collapsing due to the huge numbers of immigrants. Housing and the lack of it has become a huge problem. 
_
What percentage of the population own a car? is it divided by classes/_ Well did not find procentege numbers, but there are 4.585.520 cars in use in sweden, that is 47/100 people. The divide is not among classes as much as it is between cities/rural areas. The wealthiest lives in the cities and have fewest cars. I might add that public transit here is way better then yours and having a car in our major cities is a major hassle.

_So you have a welfare system that benefits the lazy or non productive by their choice? Can the system be manipulated?_ the non productive yes, the lazy not so much. Of course it can be manipulated.

_ Are you saying there are no "free rides" ?_ yes and no, depends on how one defines "free"


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

So it is not "all expenses" paid and has some qualifiers? I really dont know get the question... you get medical care and it is paid for by the state. Qualifiers?


You stated prescription can be at a cost to the patient, inquiring as to who has to pay and who doesn't for prescriptions. It appears the health care is not all inclusive.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> So it is not "all expenses" paid and has some qualifiers? I really dont know get the question... you get medical care and it is paid for by the state. Qualifiers?
> 
> You stated prescription can be at a cost to the patient, inquiring as to who has to pay and who doesn't for prescriptions. It appears the health care is not all inclusive.


ah okey, now I understand the question.. well, it is a compromise. you must pay for your medication untill you they cost more then around 300 dollars, then the state pays the rest. After 12 months you again must pay the first 300 dollars. For a family with more then one kid, 300 dollars counts for all kids as they were the same person (as long as they are under 18)


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> ah okey, now I understand the question.. well, it is a compromise. you must pay for your medication untill you they cost more then around 300 dollars, then the state pays the rest. After 12 months you again must pay the first 300 dollars. For a family with more then one kid, 300 dollars counts for all kids as they were the same person (as long as they are under 18)


Much like our deductible before our typical insurance kicks in at 80/20 or 70/30 cost share for an illness and a $6-20 cost per refill for the typical average prescription, except it seems it is applicable to prescriptions only in Sweden.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Much like our deductible before our typical insurance kicks in at 80/20 or 70/30 cost share for an illness and a $6-20 cost per refill for the typical average prescription, except it seems it is applicable to prescriptions only in Sweden.


yes, prescription only, as example is standard paracetamol is not included. If you want that you pay all of it yourself. Oh and there is no insurence company involved in any part of our medical system, just so you know.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Haven't seen a reply to my questions, but they were more points of argument than actual attempts to garner knowledge. Such a system is immoral on its face, and any justification given is equally so.
I will say this...
After receiving two Morakniv "Companion" knives, you Swedes make some fine steel.
At least some part of your society is capitalistic, and I'm happy to be involved in *that* part.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

How much taxes do yall pay? And why should a family with one child have to pay taxes to support a family with 6 kids?


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Arklatex said:


> How much taxes do yall pay? And why should a family with one child have to pay taxes to support a family with 6 kids?


All people pay taxes (if they work, buy something, or get a pension) I think our total taxpressure is around 55% of what you earn. You get no taxrebate for having kids, or for any reasons. You pay taxes depending on how much you earn. Loopholes do not exist here.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Haven't seen a reply to my questions, but they were more points of argument than actual attempts to garner knowledge. Such a system is immoral on its face, and any justification given is equally so.
> I will say this...
> After receiving two Morakniv "Companion" knives, you Swedes make some fine steel.
> At least some part of your society is capitalistic, and I'm happy to be involved in *that* part.


First, I do not care about your morals, they are of no consern to me.

in many regards, we are better capitalist then you are. We have way more billionares per capita then the US have 

Sweden?s billionaires: They have more per capita than the United States. (From the article: _*But one country stands out on the list: Sweden (No. 12, 14 billionaires, population 9.56 million)*_

We also have a lot of multinational companies, most in the world per captia.

https://presentingsweden.si.se/material-by-theme/innovation/

Sweden is way more buissnessfriendly then the us, or any other country, we are at the top, first place

Best country to do business in the world... Sweden?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> All people pay taxes (if they work, buy something, or get a pension) I think our total *taxpressure* is around 55% of what you earn. You get no taxrebate for having kids, or for any reasons. You pay taxes depending on how much you earn. Loopholes do not exist here.


Swede, you just taught me a new term - I like it and am going to use it, taxpressure..... what a truth!


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Prepared One said:


> Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
> Winston Churchill


and quotations are used by weekminded fools that dont have any arguments.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Swede, you just taught me a new term - I like it and am going to use it, taxpressure..... what a truth!


well, did not know it was a new term, I kind of just translated the swedish word "skattetryck" and that means taxpressure. If I remember correctly Sweden has the worlds second highest taxpressure.

it is usually combined with the word "total", disussing specific taxes, like VAT, should be done in relation to total taxpressure to get a broader picture.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Those who live a fools paradise are quick to call others a fool. They enjoy the company


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Prepared One said:


> Those who live a fools paradise are quick to call others a fool. They enjoy the company


Sure, whatever, go and enjoy your "freedom" now


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Swede, thanks for answering our questions. 

Are you going to take a stand against the government trying to take the guns?


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Arklatex said:


> Swede, thanks for answering our questions.
> 
> Are you going to take a stand against the government trying to take the guns?


Tecnically it is the EU parlament that will decide about the new rules, not the swedish gov.

But the answer is yes.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Swedishsocialist said:


> First, I do not care about morals, they are of no concern to me.


I fixed it for you...


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> I fixed it for you...


OMG, please tell me when I should laugh at you joke!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swedishsocialist said:


> and quotations are used by weekminded fools that dont have any arguments.


Really?

"A wise and frugal government&#8230; shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816

"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If 'Thou shalt not covet' and 'Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free." - John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787

"I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts, we must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts, in our labor and in our amusements." - Thomas Jefferson

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." - Benjamin Franklin

Finally, 2 Thessalonians 3:10 "For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat."


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Denton said:


> Really?
> 
> "A wise and frugal government&#8230; shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801
> 
> ...


yeah, because once you choose to use the words of others from a diffrent context instead of thinking for yourself you have failed and are not using your brain. Think about it


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swedishsocialist said:


> yeah, because once you choose to use the words of others from a diffrent context instead of thinking for yourself you have failed and are not using your brain. Think about it


If you use your brain, you'll understand the quotes are not out of context.

Were you to think about it, you would realize calling someone a fool for looking for opinions of those who were much smarter than one's self is foolish in itself.

I would also caution you to not call another member a fool.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Denton said:


> I would also caution you to not call another member a fool.


well politiness is not the defining thing about this forum. I been called a lot of things here.

Guess who wrote this for example: _*You, the Swedes, suck as well.*_ Clue, it was Denton.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swedishsocialist said:


> well politiness is not the defining thing about this forum. I been called a lot of things here.
> 
> Guess who wrote this for example: _*You, the Swedes, suck as well.*_ Clue, it was Denton.


Hey, can you give me a link?


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Denton said:


> Hey, can you give me a link?


http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/political-news-topics/19130-swedish-democracy-americans-4.html


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Here is an interesting article http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rats-flex-muscles-anti-immigrant-kristianstad

Looks like a lot of Swedish folks are getting fed up with the muslim invasion.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swedishsocialist said:


> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/political-news-topics/19130-swedish-democracy-americans-4.html


Now, the whole quote:

"We were born a constitutional republic. Through the decades, we have became a democracy, and then an oligarchy.

We, the People, are numb.

You, the Swedes, suck as well."

So, you took a part of a quote so that you could play the part of victim. This is why I wanted the entire quote. Clearly, I was making the point that your people suck as much as my people.

Your partial quote was intellectually dishonest.

This is why I always look at an entire thread when someone reports a post. It is necessary to get the entire picture.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Swedishsocialist said:


> well politiness is not the defining thing about this forum. I been called a lot of things here.
> 
> Guess who wrote this for example: _*You, the Swedes, suck as well.*_ Clue, it was Denton.


SS, You misunderstood that one, it meant all of you suck just like us, a general application, NOT an individual affront. 
We combined are a bunch of a-holes for allowing what happens to us en mass.

Sorry I am a slow typer, Denton replied while I was typing.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Swedishsocialist said:


> OMG, please tell me when I should laugh at you joke!


When I actually tell one.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Swedishsocialist said:


> ...because once you choose to use the words of others from a different context instead of thinking for yourself you have failed and are not using your brain. Think about it





Swedishsocialist said:


> Guess who wrote this for example: _*You, the Swedes, suck as well.*_ Clue, it was Denton.





Denton said:


> So, you took a part of a quote so that you could play the part of victim. This is why I wanted the entire quote.
> ...
> Your partial quote was intellectually dishonest.
> This is why I always look at an entire thread when someone reports a post. It is necessary to get the entire picture.


I lol'd.
:mrgreen:


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Heard this on the radio the other day. Yet another example of socialism failing. This is the story of the pilgrims on the Mayflower in 1620 realizing that socialism doesn't work.

On September 16, 1620, the Mayflower set sail from Plymouth, England with 102 souls on board.

The Pilgrims were initially organized as a Collectivist society. Their contract with their European sponsoring businessmen stipulated that they would function as a Socialist group with each person contributing to the common good and in turn each receiving an equal share of the produce. The Plymouth Colony, its buildings, and its lands would all be owned in common.

William Bradford, Governor of Plymouth Colony, composed the 1620 Mayflower Compact during the voyage. Its purpose was to codify an agreement among the 102 settlers, including his 40 Pilgrims, to live together and to function as a group. All were to be treated justly and equally no matter what their religious beliefs, a truly revolutionary concept for the time.

The Mayflower landed the settlers of Plymouth Colony*on December 21, 1620.* The winter was cold and food was in short supply. Half of the Pilgrims died during that first winter, including William Bradford's wife. During the next year, the local Indians befriended them and taught them to plant corn and to fish for eel and cod. It became evident during this first crop year that few worked hard to produce crops and other goods for the benefit of the Colony. As a result, there was not that much food and prosperity after that first growing season. That first harvest festival in 1621 (Thanksgiving) was shared with their Wampanoag Indian neighbors. The Pilgrims gave thanks to God for what they had.

They really had not achieved abundance that first year. Even the strong and the able had not worked very hard. There was resentment and squabbling among the settlers over what little they did have.

Governor William Bradford realized Socialism was not going to work. He wisely abolished the Socialist principles on which the Plymouth Colony had been founded. Each family was then given a plot of land to farm and harvest for themselves. The settlers kept what they produced for themselves.

The Colony quickly became prosperous with more than sufficient food for everyone. They produced enough food and other goods to open a trading post where they traded with the local Indians.

With the profits they created, the settlers quickly paid off their sponsors. News of their prosperity spread, encouraging others to brave the perils of the New World and to enjoy its early blessings of liberty and prosperity.

William Bradford wrote in his Journal,

"The experience that we had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years...that by taking away property, and bringing community into a common wealth, would make them happy and flourishing - as if they were wiser than God."

"For this community (so far as it was) was found to breed much confusion and discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For young men that were most able and fit for labor and service did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children without [being paid] that was thought injustice."

"This [free enterprise] had very good success, for it made all hands industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been."


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Yup. We learned in the very beginning that socialism creates lazy, sorry people who expect others to do the heavy lifting.

Recent historical accounts teach us that socialism causes societies to have one wealthy caste, and that is the ruling caste. This, with few exceptions, and those exceptions rely on other nations for their survival.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Denton said:


> Yup. We learned in the very beginning that socialism creates lazy, sorry people who expect others to do the heavy lifting.
> 
> Recent historical accounts teach us that socialism causes societies to have one wealthy caste, and that is the ruling caste. This, with few exceptions, and those exceptions rely on other nations for their survival.


Reminds me of the old saying from animal farm:


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Denton said:


> If you use your brain, you'll understand the quotes are not out of context.
> 
> Were you to think about it, you would realize calling someone a fool for looking for opinions of those who were much smarter than one's self is foolish in itself.
> 
> I would also caution you to not call another member a fool.


Thus, my response.

Those who live a fools paradise are quick to call others a fool. They enjoy the company.

I have been called much worse of coarse, but considered the source and moved on. Time and reason are wasted here.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> well politiness is not the defining thing about this forum. I been called a lot of things here.
> 
> Guess who wrote this for example: _*You, the Swedes, suck as well.*_ Clue, it was Denton.


Swede, you missed it on this one....again. I generally cut you some slack as I understand the language barrier, and by that I mean the dry humor, the use of terminology that can be misinterpreted, and understanding your different perspective on some things as you remain loyal to Your Country. However, know that I welcome and enjoy your insight and continued presence here on this forum. I do admire your willingness to "see and watch" as I acknowledge you continue to explore everything that is going on in Sweden and the world. Keep watching my friend.


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