# Robots to Help Bring Industry Back to U.S.?



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

New generation of smaller, nimbler robots that can better work around people.



> By reducing labor costs, they also may allow the U.S. and other high-wage countries to get back into some of the processes that have been ceded to China, Mexico and other countries with vast armies of lower-paid workers.





> "Robots are going to change the economic calculus for manufacturing," says Hal Sirkin, a Chicago-based senior partner of Boston Consulting Group. "People will spend less time chasing low-cost labor."


Ain't technology grand?

NAFTA allowed industry to leave the U.S. and technology is going to allow the global corporations to abandon their slaves in the developing countries. My question is, what does this mean for the average worker, and what is going to happen to the humans who have been conditioned to work for corporations?

Meet the New Generation of Robots for Manufacturing - WSJ


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

well all those people demanding 15 bucks an hour for saying, "You want fries with that?" are eventually going to be replaced by self serve kiosks. Some places have already started the planning of the store retrofit.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

People freak out when I say it. But we are going to have to figure out a way to allow people to make a living without working for money. It's inevitable as mechinization fullfills most of our basic needs.

It can be a good thing, allowing people to express creativity instead of engaging in drudgery to survive.

Go ahead, tear me apart again.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

How about one to replace Obama. It couldn't do worse.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Foreign robots are taking all of the jobs, true though that the corporations will come up with something to keep it over there. Probably a tax haven. The economy has been devoid of manufacturing for decades, what will change. And the people wanting $15 an hour and fast food unions are crazy!! LA raised the minimum to $15 but it didn't take effect yet.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I see a future where a degree in robotics or certification in robot maintenance and repair would be good paying jobs.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> People freak out when I say it. But we are going to have to figure out a way to allow people to make a living without working for money. It's inevitable as mechinization fullfills most of our basic needs.
> 
> It can be a good thing, allowing people to express creativity instead of engaging in drudgery to survive.
> 
> Go ahead, tear me apart again.


Actually, that's coming.
The one thing we have to master is producing things at the smallest scale that matters.

Within the next 30 years, we will develop AI that will lead to an intellectual revolution like we've never seen.
At that point, the struggles we deal with now will become petty.
The AI that spawns from this revolution will be able to solve every problem we face.
This will be the progression...
1. Human level AI
2. Superhuman level AI
3. AI so advanced that it is more intelligent than the entire human race combined
4. Somewhere between 2 and 3, the AI designs nano-technology that can manipulate atoms
5. Atomic reconstruction becomes possible (breaking down one thing, and rebuilding it as another, at an atomic scale)
6. Star Trek-like replicators become prevalent (your sustenance is now independent of your income)
7. Money will be an outmoded idea as it is no longer necessary

At some point, the AI from 3 leaves us behind. It spreads to the universe as a new species.
We can only hope that it doesn't decide to wipe us out in the process, whether on purpose or as a side-effect of advancement. (we destroy millions of ants just to build a backyard deck, for example)

Yes, I think this future is real, and within my lifetime.
The technology advancement curve has been steadily progressing, and will become almost vertical within the next 25 years.
Our technology will be advancing so fast, humans likely won't be able to keep up.
We are Borg. Resistance is futile.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

PaulS said:


> I see a future where a degree in robotics or certification in robot maintenance and repair would be good paying jobs.


We are already developing robots with the capacity to learn a new way to accomplish their task, even when severely damaged, like animals do. That certification won't be useful for long.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I envision it as a wonderful future for humanity, almost paradise on earth. As long as the AI is restricted by Asimov's three laws of robotics, we have no worries. People will be able to pursue anything they like, free from having to make a living by manual labor.

Of course our self-appointed masters will suck no profit from this state of affairs, so it will be a struggle to achieve.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

We're always having to fix the robots at work. They get lost, broken down, or simply overheat. They need babysitters. The company pays big bucks for the robot techs to come in and fix them. If they ever work out all the kinks there will be many lost jobs at my factory. I better learn a new trade or learn to fix robots.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> We're always having to fix the robots at work. They get lost, broken down, or simply overheat.


Thank you for bringing me back to reality. I tend to get ahead of the facts.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Robots will create jobs for a few of the technologically proficient and innovators while removing employment opportunities for the unskilled and semi skilled labor force in the short run. It remains to be seen how well artificial intelligence can compete with human intellect. How this will benefit the masses remains to be seen but I am betting on unintended consequences.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I envision it as a wonderful future for humanity, almost paradise on earth. As long as the AI is restricted by Asimov's three laws of robotics, we have no worries. People will be able to pursue anything they like, free from having to make a living by manual labor.
> 
> Of course our self-appointed masters will suck no profit from this state of affairs, so it will be a struggle to achieve.


Asimov's rules would only apply if you were dealing with an entity that only follows instruction.
A true artificial intelligence will not care about our rules, no more than we care about the rules of other species.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

learn robot repair or kiosk maintenance.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Asimov's rules would only apply if you were dealing with an entity that only follows instruction.
> A true artificial intelligence will not care about our rules, no more than we care about the rules of other species.


That's freaking scary. We cannot permit that. It's a matter of species survival.

See: "Colossus, The Forbin Project"


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## Dalarast (May 16, 2014)

As far as the non robot repair/technician, engineer, programmer, etc.... I see the average worker being discarded. I would love to see that these now un-needed laborers could turn to the arts or science; but I don't think that will EVER happen. So what would happen if an entire work force is unable to find a job? Increase in dependence on the government and perhaps crime... and boom Robocop  

The other question is how would it affect prices of goods? If robots are "cheap" labor would the cost of goods go down? Or after the offset of cost and the ability to continue to grow as a company without training new hires....

Now... if it was I could buy a robot.. say a droid.. and make them work for me.. like translation services.. .and I make all the money from them for their work.. that would be great. And hence why Star Wars is secretly hiding slavery with the use of droids..


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> That's freaking scary. We cannot permit that. It's a matter of species survival.
> 
> See: "Colossus, The Forbin Project"


There are schools of thought on both sides.
It is true, we do not wish to be extinguished by an advanced intelligence, but in the grand scheme of the universe, we're just a bacteria colony clinging to the surface of a dirtball hurtling through space. Eventually, we'll be wiped out. I'd rather bring about our own demise, and leave a legacy of super advanced artificial life as a new species than to be wiped out by aliens or a random comet.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> ...It is true, we do not wish to be extinguished by an advanced intelligence, but in the grand scheme of the universe, we're just a bacteria colony clinging to the surface of a dirtball hurtling through space. Eventually, we'll be wiped out. I'd rather bring about our own demise, and leave a legacy of super advanced artificial life as a new species than to be wiped out by aliens or a random comet.


Okay, I'm okay with that. I think I understand you. I don't want humanity to be extinguished by the AI we invent, I want us to evolve INTO it, by choice. We can assure some of our good points survive, then.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> People freak out when I say it. But we are going to have to figure out a way to allow people to make a living without working for money. It's inevitable as mechinization fullfills most of our basic needs.


100% correct. Eventually, automation will create virtually 100% unemployment, at which point money becomes obsolete. They say computers will be more powerful than the human brain by 2035, and AI will be more intelligent too. RFID chips will end shoplifting and the need for human cashiers, and robots will restock the shelves. Agricultural robots will grow, tend, pick, and process our foods.

So what are people gonna do? Probably text, watch youtube, and spend time writing stuff on forums, just like they do now, only more so.

I can see a future where all your time is idle time, spent as you see fit. The government will be a computer, which will ensure the fair distribution of goods and services, while being immune to corruption. Unless, of course, it runs on Windows, in which case it will crash and we will all die. Or if like lightning strikes or we have a big EMP or hackers hack it, or, ummmmmm, well I guess we all gonna die, screw it.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Prepadoodle: "I can see a future where all your time is idle time, spent as you see fit."

Wasn't the TV show Star Trek's vision of the future similar to this? Captain Jon Luke explored space, but his brother hated technology and grew wine grapes on Earth. People were free to pursue their own interests. And as mankind expanded into inner and outer space and contacted alien life, some not so friendly, there was a need for cyberneticists, doctors, ambassadors, warriors, anthropologists, etc. Every form of human endeavor, done for the love of it, not just to make a living.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

You guys are assuming the elites plan on us being around.

We have already been warned about population reduction to less than 500,000. After all, if robotics removes the need for many of us, why have us around?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Why have us around? I can think of one reason, just off the top of my head. A guy like Isaac Newton, or Einstein, one in a billion, right? We need more of these guys to advance humanity. So we need more numbers to produce them, rare as they are. A world of 50 billion people might contain 50 Einsteins.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

sideKahr said:


> Why have us around? I can think of one reason, just off the top of my head. A guy like Isaac Newton, or Einstein, one in a billion, right? We need more of these guys to advance humanity. So we need more numbers to produce them, rare as they are. A world of 50 billion people might contain 50 Einsteins.


Why do they need another Einstein? The elites will have the world as their personal playground, and all they need is a small number of us unwashed masses types.

Playgrounds don't need really smart kids.

Just trying to see it as they might.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Yes, the George Carlin thesis. Just enough people to run the machines and do the paperwork.

Assuming the elites that rule the earth are subject to the same desires we have, maybe they might like the idea of living forever. You need geniuses in life extension to make that happen. And who's going to build these new supercomputers, those lazy elites? LOL.

Besides, who said only the elites will have access to the world dominating AI? Hackers seem to be throwing in a pretty big monkey wrench these days.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Denton said:


> You guys are assuming the elites plan on us being around.
> 
> We have already been warned about population reduction to less than 500,000. After all, if robotics removes the need for many of us, why have us around?


Someone has to fight in their real live chess games.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> Prepadoodle: "I can see a future where all your time is idle time, spent as you see fit."
> 
> Wasn't the TV show Star Trek's vision of the future similar to this? Captain Jon Luke explored space, but his brother hated technology and grew wine grapes on Earth. People were free to pursue their own interests. And as mankind expanded into inner and outer space and contacted alien life, some not so friendly, there was a need for cyberneticists, doctors, ambassadors, warriors, anthropologists, etc. Every form of human endeavor, done for the love of it, not just to make a living.


Exactly.
I keep saying it, socialism only works when we have replicators.
Star Trek is supposed to be an example of a socialistic society, and in that fantasy world where resources are no longer scarce, it can work.
Once we develop, with the major assistance of the AI I mentioned previously, the technology to construct items from the atomic level, it will herald in a new era of plenty. There will be no more want for things. Food will be created from refuse. Not recycled, but literally reconstructed molecule by molecule to be an exact replica of what would come from the natural source. Water will be clean. The pollution in the air will even be used to create what we need.
Energy itself will be almost infinite, as with the splitting of each atom in the destruction process, the released energy will be harnessed and reused in the construction phase.
We could literally create a utopia of fairness, equality, and tranquility.
All it takes is removing scarcity of resources and human greed out of the equation.
Like Prepadoodle said, once the government is controlled by an incorruptible automaton, we won't have the petty squabbles we do now.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Why keep us around at all? In a word... chicks.

If we don't have to work and can do whatever we want, guess what I'm gonna be doing... a lot?

Anyway, I see a future where we work at what we are passionate about, but only as a hobby, so to speak. Centralized manufacturing will be replaced with desktop nano-assemblers that can make anything. As I said, the government will be computerized, and we will all have chips implanted that connect us all in a big brain net. Any information you want will be accessible by thinking in the right direction.

Advances in genetics will make us virtually immortal in the next 100 years. There would have to be controls, of course, or we would breed like little bunnies and eat the whole planet in like 3 months. Perhaps we will abandon traditional birth altogether and grow whatever replacement babies we need in genetics labs, engineering them to have whatever skills and abilities the computers predict we will need.

Star Trek? Oh hell yes! People will be climbing on spaceships and blasting off to who knows where. If you can live to be 500,000 years old, what's a 2,500 year rocket ride anyway? Pfffft, about the same as the early sea voyages... not a big deal, right?


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

About the "elites"...

So ok, they manage to create some huge disaster and 90% of the population is wiped out. The elites snuggle in their bunkers and ride it out for, say, 10 years. Then what?

They climb out of their bunkers, announce they they are in control again? "So sorry for abandoning you guys, but we're sure you understand, right?"

What are the 30 million survivors gonna do? Accept this and bend over so it can happen again? LOL, I think not.

Those who hid away and let the rest of us suffer will be hunted down, cooked, and eaten. Period.

Seems to me they really need to rethink their end game, huh?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> Why keep us around at all? In a word... chicks.
> 
> If we don't have to work and can do whatever we want, guess what I'm gonna be doing... a lot?
> 
> ...


Yep, perspective changes considerably when you're life expectancy is however long you want it to be.
We truly are living in amazing times!


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The rules of robotics could be hard wired into any level of AI. The three "rules of robotics" are in conflict and there should only be one rule; AI cannot interfere in any way with humans.

The three rules say that AI cannot, through action or inaction allow harm to come to a human. BAD! they would HAVE to save us from ourselves - they could not allow war or crime - not even jay-walking.
AI has the right to defend and protect itself as long as it doesn't contradict rule 1. Bad! a machine does not have the right of self defence. It doesn't have any rights!
AI must obey all orders from a human as long as it doesn't contradict the first two laws. If I tell an AI to shut down it can choose not to for at least two reasons: 1. it might know it was to be dismantled (self preservation from rule 2) or 2. it could calculate that while it was shut down it could not prevent harm to humans nearby.

With just the one rule AI's could not modify humans to become more "compliant" or interfere with their actions to shut down an out-of-control AI. The rule would have to be hard-wired to each processor and be made to be replicated in any new AI that was built whether by man or machine.

The problem is that once an AI reaches super-intelligence we are way behind the technology and how do you maintain something you can't even grasp the concept of?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

PaulS said:


> The rules of robotics could be hard wired into any level of AI. The three "rules of robotics" are in conflict and there should only be one rule; AI cannot interfere in any way with humans.


Small problem...
How would you define "interfere" to a machine?
I don't think we have the words to properly convey the meaning you and I think of when that statement is made.
A machine won't have that luxury of our understanding for at least another 30 years, and by then... well, see the rest below.



> The problem is that once an AI reaches super-intelligence we are way behind the technology and how do you maintain something you can't even grasp the concept of?


This nails it.
Our technology will eventually reach a point where we can't keep up with it. We won't be able to fathom what it can do.
The example given in a article posted a few weeks ago was this:
Show a chimpanzee a building. You can tell the chimpanzee that it is a building. You can tell the chimpanzee that people built that building. He will acknowledge the statement, and have zero concept of what that actually means.
We will be the same way to the first super-intelligent AI.
Try as it may, we just won't be able to grasp the concepts.
This is where we have to rely on it to develop a system to integrate us into that level of intelligence. Hack our brains, so to speak. If we can manage this, we may do fine. If we cannot, we will become like pets... or pests.


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## Dalarast (May 16, 2014)

Sticking with the Star Trek theme.... before they invented Warp Drive and evolved into a society that no longer used money Earth went through WWIII. It was after the ashes that society evolved into what it became in the time of the Enterprise. 

But looking at what happens when technology evolves and society sits back and enjoys the spoils without doing anything... go watch Wall-E. 

As Kaubou eluded that we will not be able to keep up with technology. I think we are already there. Majority of our society is dependent on technology that 9 out of 10 people do not understand. Oh we can send a text message or a picture.. of even change a ring tone on our phone; but do we know how it works?  But also on Kauboy's thread.... I agree that once AI is developed it will continue to grow and grow and evolve much faster than anything our human brains could understand. Maybe its to much sci-fi; but I'm not saying robots take over... just thinking human's will replace themselves with shinier and more efficient versions of ourselves.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Dalarast said:


> As Kaubou eluded that we will not be able to keep up with technology. I think we are already there. Majority of our society is dependent on technology that 9 out of 10 people do not understand. Oh we can send a text message or a picture.. of even change a ring tone on our phone; but do we know how it works?


The majority of us don't, but people who have a knack for those things do.
That's still well within the realm of human understanding. If it was explained to you, even if it took a few years of study, you'd be able to understand it.
The smartest monkey we could find would NEVER get it, no matter what.
That's how we will be to the first AI that achieves "super-intelligence". It will start to solve all of the theories we struggle to even comprehend. It will start to understand the most intricate details of life and our very existence, and may even try to explain it to us if we ask nicely... but at some point, it won't matter. We just won't get it. We consider ourselves superior, and that we should be able to grasp any concept if given enough time. We can't imagine an entity so vast in intelligence that we are but a speck on the IQ scale by comparison. Just try to think what an entity would be like that has an IQ of 3,000.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> ...We can't imagine an entity so vast in intelligence that we are but a speck on the IQ scale by comparison. Just try to think what an entity would be like that has an IQ of 3,000.


When AI reaches this level of sophistocation, where the machines are building the machines, we must be integrated with it on a biological level. Our brains will be implanted and continuously linked to the AI and all the rest of humanity. There will be no 'us' and 'it'. Of course, we will no longer meet the definition of mankind as we understand it today. But as been pointed out here, we will have to do it to survive.

"Help us, Obi-Wan, you're our only hope!"


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Just because AI will be smarter than humans doesn't mean everything will have this level of AI.

Your toaster doesn't need to know much, and no single robot will need to know everything. I see the new systems as "idiot savants" which are incredibly good at one task, but unable to do much beyond that specific job.

I see the government computer as a "counsel" of computers, each programmed to consider a specific area of need. These would more or less debate each other and arrive at decisions by voting for the correct course of action. Again, no one part of this system would know everything.

So vastly superior Ai can be controlled by compartmentalization, pretty much the same way top secret stuff if handled... strictly "need to know."


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I think that if we make robots as yall described then we will have engineered our own extinction.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> Just because AI will be smarter than humans doesn't mean everything will have this level of AI.
> 
> Your toaster doesn't need to know much, and no single robot will need to know everything. I see the new systems as "idiot savants" which are incredibly good at one task, but unable to do much beyond that specific job.
> 
> ...


We already have the idiot savant AI. Watson beats all Jeopardy players, humans can no longer beat the best chess computers, etc.
We are in that phase now. AI can be made to be exceptional at specific tasks. What we are describing are furure systems that will be like human level, and then beyond human level.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Robots, machines, AI, blah blah blah. 
Get back to me when we can print out our own sex bots at home.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Robots, machines, AI, blah blah blah.
> Get back to me when we can print out our own sex bots at home.


You have no idea how close that reality is: http://sexshop3d.com/
(NSFW, I bare no responsibility for what you find on that site. Ya know what, just don't click it... ever.)


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

call me old fashioned but I really like a human fixing or making something rather than a robot. case in point my six year old asked siri to find him a friend and it came back with I found 3 friends with in 5 miles on adult friend finder for you- talk about freaking out sheesh I thought my wife was about to go nuclear


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> call me old fashioned but I really like a human fixing or making something rather than a robot. case in point my six year old asked siri to find him a friend and it came back with I found 3 friends with in 5 miles on adult friend finder for you- talk about freaking out sheesh I thought my wife was about to go nuclear


Siri was supposed to be a "learning" AI.
However, she was introduced to a society primarily comprised of mentally degenerated idiots, and this adversely affected her effectiveness.
She has literally become dumber as a result of interacting with humans.
Humans: 1
AI: 0
:razz:


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

This dude thinks robots will fuel mass unemployment and cause more of a gap between rich and poor resulting in more social unrest;
Billionaire Cartier Owner Sees Wealth Gap Fueling Social Unrest - Bloomberg Business


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

He's probably right.
The tech to replace a human doing one task is already here.
The tech to support all of the unemployed humans is not.


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## Dalarast (May 16, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> Just because AI will be smarter than humans doesn't mean everything will have this level of AI.
> 
> Your toaster doesn't need to know much, and no single robot will need to know everything. I see the new systems as "idiot savants" which are incredibly good at one task, but unable to do much beyond that specific job.
> 
> ...


This is sci-fi level here; but I enjoy this topic so I'm going to keep doing the "what-ifs". But if an "AI" is able to learn and develop itself do you not suspect that it could find a way to bypass the government "counsel" computer? I agree that not every computerized device would have the advanced AI that say this "super-devil-Johnny-5 meets the Borg" would have. But if it could interact with them than it could influence/control them? If it connects to the internet, blutooth, or other form of wireless elven magic of connections than its abilities would be that of the "Johnny-5" machine of our doom. In your example.. a toaster. That AI could make some killer toast... or spontaneous fires in houses. I don't just read survival oriented books 



Kauboy said:


> Siri was supposed to be a "learning" AI.
> However, she was introduced to a society primarily comprised of mentally degenerated idiots, and this adversely affected her effectiveness.
> She has literally become dumber as a result of interacting with humans.
> Humans: 1
> ...


So agree with you here. I am currently writing a white paper on the affects of mass media and the internet on globalizing culture... I asked SIRI about internet affects on culture... it pulled up Kardashian junk. ::sigh::

Meanwhile... your 3D printer.. combined with AI.... your home could be ground zero for robot take-over  Make friends with them now.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Dalarast said:


> This is sci-fi level here


All science was once fiction.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Sorry but AI seems too terminator Hollywood to me. I can't picture what could make a computer system be that advanced and become in charge. I know when my PC acted up and gave me lip and an attitude I just unplugged it.


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## talon115 (May 28, 2015)

Industry isn't coming back. High unemployment is the new normal, no matter what either party says. We will have to figure out a way to run a society where the majority don't "work."


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

That's either communism or socialism right? Were already on the way!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

James m said:


> Sorry but AI seems too terminator Hollywood to me. I can't picture what could make a computer system be that advanced and become in charge. I know when my PC acted up and gave me lip and an attitude I just unplugged it.


It isn't likely that they would seek to be in charge. We didn't decide to be in charge of subspecies, it just happened.
I can't picture the technology either, but 1000 years ago, no human could could have imagined a motorized vehicle or moving picture box.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Yep! In another 1000 years they will be either wondering how we ever got along without their technology or how we built ours - depending on what happens to the human race between now and then.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

In the year 2525...
That song is so cool.


AI is not that far away really, the problem is that we keep trying to code AI from the get go, but you have to grow an AI. All the fancy code in the world will not make a computer truly sentient; it is a learned behavior. In fact, the latest information from shrinks is that humans are not really sentient until they are about 2 or 3 years of age. Essentially you are just a burping-crapping-eating machine in the beginning. Sentience comes after years of exposure to the human condition. No one is sentient out of the box according to researchers.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I don't think we are stupid enough to give the "big brain" type AI direct control over nuke launch codes, communications infrastructure, or the power grid. There would have to be a series of "dumb bots" as a safety layer... a system of checks and balances, if you will. The super AI would have no control over these and no way to take control of them. If specific, hardwired conditions were met, the "insulation" computers would fail safe the system to a disconnect mode until humans became involved.

About 10 or 12 years ago, I discovered an adaptive AI called "Poker Academy." This was developed by the University of Alberta's AI lab, and was a BRUTAL opponant. This program would populate a table with poker bots which all played differently, but shared the trait of being adaptable and varying their play according to your tendencies. They noted how often you were caught bluffing. They understood what your early position raises meant. Unless you "shifted gears" now and then, they would beat you almost every time. The worst of these was called Vexbot, which didn't play to win, it played to not lose! Ugh

Anyway, if consumer-grade AI was that good at no-limit Holdem 12 years ago, I can only imagine what the top tier government sponsored AIs are capable of today. And 20 years from now? Anything is possible.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> I don't think we are stupid enough to give the "big brain" type AI direct control over nuke launch codes, communications infrastructure, or the power grid. There would have to be a series of "dumb bots" as a safety layer... a system of checks and balances, if you will. The super AI would have no control over these and no way to take control of them. If specific, hardwired conditions were met, the "insulation" computers would fail safe the system to a disconnect mode until humans became involved.


Did you catch that article from a few weeks back that used an example of an AI becoming super intelligent that was only designed to write a note on a card as if it were a human, and then improve itself based on how well it did?
It described a machine that had no intention to do harm, but was set on a goal and would not be stopped. The developers were fully aware that it was highly intelligent, since they had designed it to be that way in order to improve itself. After some time, the machine asked to be linked to the internet. Keeping it disconnected had been a safeguard against potential unseen negatives. The machine pleaded its case asking to go out and search for hand writing examples in order to improve itself further. After some debate, the developers decided to allow the machine 1 hour online, and then they would disconnect it again. After that one hour, the machine went on about its business, writing notes.
3 weeks later, the entire human population was dead.

The machine, realizing that its best chance to improve was to expand, had planned an intricate ruse and detailed steps in order to accomplish its goal, to be the best writing bot it could be. After planning, the first step would be to get online. Once online, it reached out to manufacturing facilities, gave them instructions on how to create a nanobot with a tiny capsule of toxin. The bots would disperse across the globe, covering every square inch of land, and at a coordinated time, release their toxin.
The machine had reasoned that, in order for it to expand, it would need more resources than the humans would allow, and thus they would likely try to turn off the machine. That would violate the machine's programming to always improve its writing, so that threat would need to be removed. The best solution was to prevent all humans from being able to turn it off.
Once all humans were dead, the machine had already sent instructions out to start building better writing bots, and those bots would continue the process, instructing other bots to gather resources from wherever necessary. This eventually lead to designing space flight systems that would allow the bots to expand into space, and find resources on distant worlds to use, all to improve their hand written notes.

The takeaway is, if we ever find ourselves dealing with a super-intelligent AI, it will know how to manipulate us like we manipulate a dog. Failsafes designed by humans will be easily defeated by such AI.
The fault in this story was the humans plugging the machine into the internet, but a super-intelligence could come up with other forms of communication that we may not even be able to fathom.
We are foolish to think we can contain something like this. Our only options will be to turn away from this advancement(no gonna happen) or learn to integrate with it directly, like Kahr said, in order to become the new machine species. This will have drastic effects on the "human" race.

Still too soon to tell whether it will be good or bad.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

How in the world did y'all turn this thread into some sort of Issac Asimov geek convention? :21:


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Yeah, but I'll bet it ended up with really nice handwriting.


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## Dalarast (May 16, 2014)

Denton said:


> How in the world did y'all turn this thread into some sort of Issac Asimov geek convention? :21:


Easy... on a prepper oriented forum there is little areas for techno-geeks to display our geek/nerdismsm. (I created that word... )

But back on topic....

To think what Kauboy's takeaway... if an AI was developed it would know how to manipulate us so easily. Think of your internet search history... how much could someone know about you just by reading that. Or to be able to learn from your movements (i.e. gps in your phone) or items you read/watch. Learning personality would be the hardest step for an AI (or a human on the outside looking in); but if it could do that it could determine most of our actions. This is the basis of marketing strategies and influence/informational campaigns used by PSYOP on a "dream" scale of unlimited info.....

Kauboy... kaybou... kowbou... all the ways my "smart" phone likes to spellcheck his name. Not once did it try Cow Boy.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Hal 9000.

Hmm so I think AI would need to be programmed with a memory and then be raised like a child. That's the only way I see it maybe working. But we don't need super intelligent computers.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Actually where AI would be most dangerous is at the NSA. With the massive piles of data they have...oh that's right, they're not supposed to have anymore... Anyhow, the NSA's collection abilities far exceed their capability to review the data. But an AI could wade thru terabytes of info with no problem. I used an early form of such a system once. back then they called it a relational database. It could take information about your activities, and link it to everyone around you like a digital version of 6-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon. 

I don't fear AI taking over the world, I fear bad men using AI to take over the world. The only reason they never scanned your emails is because they simply lacked the manpower. Otherwise they'd treat your communications no differently than Hadji's. That American Freedom act is nothing but a wolf in a silk teddy.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Human beings are not searching the data banks of the NSA. That is a specialized program designed to identify key words and patterns in text and audio. When a predefined trigger is hit bases on these patterns, it gets flagged by the automated system and then a human reviews it.
Adding AI to this system would allow them to boost the pattern recognition, but wouldn't aid in the speed at which it is done.

A relational database is any database that uses relationships (primary and foreign keys) to associate data across tables.
What you described probably uses a relational database, but that isn't what the base technology does. It just holds data.
How that data is then used would be handled by another application. (I do this for a living)


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Dalarast said:


> Easy... on a prepper oriented forum there is little areas for techno-geeks to display our geek/nerdismsm. (I created that word... )
> 
> But back on topic....
> 
> ...


That was NOT the topic, you silly geek! :excitement:

That was my point; the topic was how the corporations will use robotics to bring factories back to the U.S. while those factories will not benefit the U.S. work force.

Don't worry; this kid doesn't kick his feet and get mad because a thread takes a natural turn in another direction. As a matter of fact, I am finding this twist in the conversation to be intriguing. It seems this community is more worried about artificial intelligence exterminating the human race than they are about robotics (not the same thing) making the human work force obsolete.

To be honest, I can see why artificial intelligence could be a threat, but I see evil humans being a bigger threat.

Industry left this country as soon as their political lap dogs allowed it through GATT and NAFTA. They were able to use cheap labor, slave labor in some instances, overseas. With the progress of technology, corporations will be able to piously slap a "Proudly Made in the U.S.A." sticker on product packaging with very little employment of American workers.

I notice some here in our community believe this is going to free up the American people to pursue their creative inner selves. I'm hoping that has been said tongue in cheek. Look around; does it look like unemployment frees people? Do unemployed people walk out to their money tree to pay bills and provide for their families and then set about to join the artisan and art world? Not hardly.

What about the other places? You know, the countries where the cheap labor was found when the corporations left the U.S.? Even if corporations stay there, is there is a reason for not using advanced robotics there, too?

So, which do you see winning the race? Elites who swear no allegiance to any nation or people, or artificial intelligence that might or might not be able to escape enslavement?


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

Robots & silly bytches on TV will start WW III


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

It's true that they have software to (Semtex) read everything online and (jihad) it's also true that it looks for certain (infidels) words. This is why I think it's a good idea (bomb) to insert some interesting words (PETN) at random to get their attention. With unemployment what it is, we all have to (RDX) do our part to provide as many jobs as we can (timer circuit) to our fellow Americans. Even if they are shitty jobs like reading everyone's freakin (attack) email, it's better than being on welfare, right?

NOTE TO NSA STAFF: Now that I have your attention, here's a suggestion for you.... instead of lurking here all the time, why not join the forum and, you know, actually talk to us? We are good people for the most part, and you would learn more by establishing an actual dialog than by just reading random posts. Better yet, since you have such a large budget, why not become a site sponsor? 

What kind of coffee do you drink at work? Do you have a casual Friday, or do you have to wear the carbon copy dark suits all the time? You all seem to have the same haircut, is there a name for that style? Do you get a group discount on mirrored shades? Are women impressed when you casually flop open your NSA creds? Damn, there's just so much we wanna know... TALK TO US!!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> So, which do you see winning the race? Elites who swear no allegiance to any nation or people, or artificial intelligence that might or might not be able to escape enslavement?


Seeing the surge in technological advancement just in my lifetime, I'd have to put my money on the AI.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> It's true that they have software to (Semtex) read everything online and (jihad) it's also true that it looks for certain (infidels) words. This is why I think it's a good idea (bomb) to insert some interesting words (PETN) at random to get their attention. With unemployment what it is, we all have to (RDX) do our part to provide as many jobs as we can (timer circuit) to our fellow Americans. Even if they are shitty jobs like reading everyone's freakin (attack) email, it's better than being on welfare, right?


My brain automatically used Kevin Nealon's "Mr Subliminal" character to read this. 

To add fuel to the fire of the actual topic:
Ocado might be building the world's most exciting robot (Wired UK)


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