# My Greatest Fear After SHTF



## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

I live in a typical suburban community. The houses of my next door neighbors are about 25 feet from mine.
Depending on the circumstance, if there is a real breakdown of society I can foresee the municipal water supply
coming to a screeching halt. I am prepared for that (of course!) but along side the dry faucets will come another
even less welcome event...dry FIRE HYDRANTS!

As to the possibility of a fire in my home, I am better off than most. I have 14 fire extinguishers (that is not a 
typo!) at various spots throughout my home and everybody (even my kids 11 & 15) have been taught how to employ them, as well as other aspects of fire safety & escape.

But...without a working fire department ANY blaze, even if it started several blocks away, can become a juggernaut of flames, travelling house to house to house, neighborhood after neighborhood! Without water NO ONE will be able to quench such a catastrophe!

As I sit here today I have a brand new fire hose (with nozzle, naturally) available for quick deployment. I can be
on a fire in my vicinity MUCH quicker than can the fire department! Yes, I have a hydrant wrench as well. HELL!
I EVEN HAVE A PROXIMITY SUIT!! Something I am willing to bet most don't have.

Yet all my preps would be useless in the face of an advancing large fire without water to repel it. 

Any suggestions, guys? I'm HOPING someone has a GREAT solution! This has to be a problem for more folks
than simply me and mine.

Grim

I am aware of keeping trees and shrubs cut back.


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Option, get an old fuel oil delivery truck to use as a tanker.
Myself, I have a river right behind my shop, and a gasoline powered pump that will do 30 GPM out of a one inch hose.
Also have a an electric pump I can run off a generator.
Shop has plenty of large CO2 bottles, i do welding in there as part of the ops.


----------



## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

I also consider fires to be a considerable threat! not only in the "burbs" but also for those of us who plan of fleeing to the hills or forested regions! without suppression from man, it could get out of control in a hurry! My only thoughts were rain barrels with pumps? but if the wind picks up.. you are at the point where you should just leave and abandon the house!


----------



## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

Socom42: "Myself, I have a river right behind my shop, and a gasoline powered pump that will do 
300 GPM out of a one inch hose."

Can you provide the Make and Model number of that pump? Sounds like a GOOD acquisition! 

I recall one we used while in the Navy...it was called a P-250. You dropped a feeder hose over
the side into the ocean and cranked it up. Fires on board a ship are an ANATHEMA! 

Where are you gonna go to if you can't put it out?!

Grim


----------



## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I have 2 extinguishers on each floor and one in each car and I need more! You are right fire is a BIG threat! I do have a hydrant wrench but like
you say that won't do an good if it is dry!


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The one I have is a honda job, bought it from northern equipment/tool, forget they changed their name.
They do have bigger ones, this one was bought just to fill tanks in a SHTF situation, paid around 300 for it a while back.
It will do on small fires, with a restrictor nozzle of 5/8" it will give about 30 feet of head.
I will have to go and dig it out for the mod number.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I understand the fire threat and most won't think about it. But without water what's the sanitary plan?? How long can you even live there?


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Any local bulldozer available for a fire break? It will be a real mess dozing others homes so more can be saved. No water and raging fires, it may be a better solution.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I too keep fire extinguishers but also realize like Chipper that a water shortage has more immediately pending potential fears. Water should be your first well thought out plan.

Many here have a stream or pond who live in a rural setting, so let me pose a question .... what is your next steps if your upstream water source is polluted by whomever or perhaps even with bodies of human and animals?


----------



## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> I too keep fire extinguishers but also realize like Chipper that a water shortage has more immediately pending potential fears. Water should be your first well thought out plan.
> 
> Many here have a stream or pond who live in a rural setting, so let me pose a question .... what is your next steps if your upstream water source is polluted by whomever or perhaps even with bodies of human and animals?


Near my home (about 500 yds away and maybe 100 feet down) is a perennial stream. If that source becomes unuseable I can go to a large river about 2 miles away (the Columbia). I also have about 400 gallons of fresh water in storage and several rain barrels. If ALL my sources go dry I'm SOL. But...I do 
have several ways to get H2O...and I doubt that the Columbia will ever go dry. I also have a large
amount of water purification supplies (filters, bleach & Calcium Hypochlorite). In a pinch I could be a pillar 
of support for my neighbors.

Which, come to think of it, is a pretty good buffer strategy...though every strategy has it's pitfalls!

Grim

That bulldozer idea is the best one I've heard! THANK YOU FOR THAT!!


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Chipper said:


> I understand the fire threat and most won't think about it. But without water what's the sanitary plan?? How long can you even live there?


Yeas, you are going to need shiter long before a hydrant. Also lots of municipal systems work on pumps, if you are at a low spot, well shit flows down hill....


----------



## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Option, get an old fuel oil delivery truck to use as a tanker.
> Myself, I have a river right behind my shop, and a gasoline powered pump that will do 300 GPM out of a one inch hose.
> Also have a an electric pump I can run off a generator.
> Shop has plenty of large CO2 bottles, i do welding in there as part of the ops.


While a 1" hose is certainly better than no hose at all...I'm looking at the number 300 GPM with incredulity.
That equates to 5 GALLONS PER SECOND! That's not realistic through a 1" hose. Got to rethink that number.

Grim


----------



## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

Chipper said:


> I understand the fire threat and most won't think about it. But without water what's the sanitary plan?? How long can you even live there?


As I just mentioned in another post I do have several hundred gallons of water available without leaving my 
property. After cooking and hygiene I will be able to put my waste water into my toilet tank and flush it.

If the sewers back up I can go a little downhill from my homestead and open a valve lower than me to drain it.
Gravity will then takeover and my toilets will remain functional. When SHTF most of my neighbors will likely
vacate the premises and that will ensure that the sewers take even longer before they are non-functional. If I 
am frugal (and I shall be) I can make trips to a nearby river and return with 275 gallons per trip (if my truck 
is still running and I have gas...but using my truck only for such VITAL transports will be my philosophy).

If it comes to it, I can dig a latrine in my backyard.

Grim


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Grim Reality said:


> While a 1" hose is certainly better than no hose at all...I'm looking at the number 300 GPM with incredulity.
> That equates to 5 GALLONS PER SECOND! That's not realistic through a 1" hose. Got to rethink that number.
> 
> Grim


Sorry that was a typo, should have read 30 GPM, factory spec is 36.7 GPM a min.
I had to look it up, I thought it was 30, head I said was thirty is 120 feet.
It is a model WX10???? paper work is somewhat trashed.
It sucks to get old and confused, can't remember everything.


----------



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Even with fire suppression you shouldn't and suspect you probably don't keep all your eggs in one basket. Using a storage/rental unit is one option, setting some basics and enough to get by aside in storage may save your bacon.


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

That's another reason for me to move out of the city .


----------



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Grim Reality said:


> I live in a typical suburban community. The houses of my next door neighbors are about 25 feet from mine.
> Depending on the circumstance, if there is a real breakdown of society I can foresee the municipal water supply
> coming to a screeching halt. I am prepared for that (of course!) but along side the dry faucets will come another
> even less welcome event...dry FIRE HYDRANTS!
> ...


water isn't the only thing that can put out fire. Trenching is a common practice. FUEL HEAT OR OXYGEN. Normally fire fighting will involve removing the oxygen, or cooling the fire down. You could always try to side your house with a reflector or something, put up a reflector wall.

Once again this is a good reason for walls.

IMO though if you don't have water or fire services available you got bigger problems than a firey inferno racing down toward your house.

(BTW you could try burning the fire out with a counter fire as long as it isn't on federal land. But in reality no you couldn't really do that in an urban area without the fire dept signing off.

So what do you think will happen to the chief and fire marshals?

PS you don't want to be anywhere near that type of fire without a respirator, get the hell out of dodge if your city starts burning.
Houses have worse toxins than your laws does, once it starts burning it ain't purty.

http://www.nrdc.org/health/toxics/stupid-household-chemicals.asp

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/our-toxic-homes/404722/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...ls-regulation-flame-retardants_n_5034976.html
http://www.fireengineering.com/arti...c-preview/dangers-of-fire-smoke-exposure.htmlz


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

My greatest fear is waking up the day after and it didn't go away.


----------



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

My greatest fear is not being able to remove my family when SHTF, followed closely by not being in route to somewhere else once it happened. Fire kills everything, EVACUATE! JMHO.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I too share the worry about fire. At least down here in AZ, all the homes around me are stucco 
with tile roofs and all houses are separated with 5-6 foot tall concrete block walls as fences. I 
am lucky compared to a lot of folks. My house is well separated from my neighbor and on the 
other side is a retention pond about 10 feet below my grade. Since I am an ex-FD paramedic, 
I've gone a tad overboard with extinguishers and applaud anyone who has spent the money.


----------



## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

Grim Reality said:


> Near my home (about 500 yds away and maybe 100 feet down) is a perennial stream. If that source becomes unuseable I can go to a large river about 2 miles away (the Columbia). I also have about 400 gallons of fresh water in storage and several rain barrels. If ALL my sources go dry I'm SOL. But...I do
> have several ways to get H2O...and I doubt that the Columbia will ever go dry. I also have a large
> amount of water purification supplies (filters, bleach & Calcium Hypochlorite). In a pinch I could be a pillar
> of support for my neighbors.
> ...


Seems to me, if you have houses 25' away, a fire lane won't be helpful at all.
And, your neighbors who own those houses might not take too kindly to you bulldozing their
houses to save yours.
Ever thought of putting in an in ground or above ground pool?


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Grim Reality said:


> I live in a typical suburban community. The houses of my next door neighbors are about 25 feet from mine.
> Depending on the circumstance, if there is a real breakdown of society I can foresee the municipal water supply
> coming to a screeching halt. I am prepared for that (of course!) but along side the dry faucets will come another
> even less welcome event...dry FIRE HYDRANTS!
> ...


Unlike most of my posts I actually read to the bottom.

So...

1. move away, WTF? you actually live 25 feet from your neighbor? !!!!

2. Did I say move away?, yes I should have.

3. Ok, lets just imagine I said move away a few more times, the fact is you can't STOP a fire unless you are very very lucky. So the point is to not be burnable.

4. Have a house with metal siding, and a metal roof, and a lot of low cut foliage around your house


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I live in the city as well although I have decent separation in my neighborhood. I have several fire extinguishers placed throughout the house so I can take care of most small fires. Major fires will be the concern. One just has to look at the old firebombings of WWII to understand what your dealing with. If it goes to hell there will be major fires and I will have no means of stopping it if it comes my way. I will evacuate and be forced to take my chances on the road.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

If you pond/stream/pool nearby you might try a good pump


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

If you pond/stream/pool nearby you might try a good pump

http://https://greenmountaingenerators.com/product/military-surplus-heavy-duty-electric-centrifugal-pump-6-1-6267/


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Following the great San Francisco earthquake, they had to stop the fires by dynamiting open lanes through the city.


----------



## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

What is your roof made of? That is a key and it sounds like you are far enough away form other houses. 
If you can fireproof your roof, you are 3/4 of the way out of the conflagration. The next time that you have a roof put on, get one made of steel.
The next biggest problem is nearby trees/brush, I have a tree that would devastate my house in a windstorm/firestorm. 
PS: The firehose is brilliant, there may be water in the line for a long time. If all else fails, get out there with a shovel and sling dirt on your roof, if it is flammable..


----------



## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Grim Reality:
A 300 GPM pump would use a 4 inch line, so you are right to be incredulous, I have used 300 GPM's in the Army. They are large and are hooked to a vehicle for transport.
But, I see that SOCOM42 made a correction to 30GPM, a more practical number. I have used a 50GPM and it is a much smaller pump, so 30 GPM sounds about right.
The 50 GPM is rated as having a 1 1/2 inch line. This for general knowledge and isn't meant to be officious and snotty. It seems like it is good to know.
With a good water source, it would save a house in a serious fire.


----------



## ride free (Feb 9, 2016)

25 feet is not much space at all, between houses. If there is a major neighborhood fire, I'd get out. No hesitation. I like the suggestion of a storage unit full of supplies. Better safe, than a crispy critter. And I agree with Bag Lady. No-one is going to allow you to bulldoze their house, even if it is on fire. And where ya gonna park the bulldozer? I would make a good plan to skeedadle out of there.


----------



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

What happens underground, stays underground. Ensure proper spacing between air vents. JMHO.


----------



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Yet another reason for building underground as opposed to on the surface.


----------



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Will2 said:


> Yet another reason for building underground as opposed to on the surface.


You can let me know when you get to the level of a 1950's American? Please don't think you are all that preaching to the chior that sang before you were born. Thanks.


----------



## PrepperFF712 (Nov 12, 2015)

We have our BOBs in our bedroom for just that. I'm working on the finances to be able to get a small storage locker with some supplies in case we aren't home if the house goes up. If it's in the middle of the night, or heck in the middle of the day and we're home, I have 2 bags that I grab and go.

I am a volunteer firefighter, so I know the importance of being prepared. Usually for me it's jumping out of bed in the middle of the night to go put someone else's fire out.

Having a lot of fire extinguishers is good and all, but what TYPE do you have? Unless it's chemicals burning, invest in CO2 extinguishers. They leave no mess when you kick them off. ABC extinguishers are nasty, and even worse to breath in. I responded to a dryer fire about 3 weeks ago and the guy literally had flames coming out of his dryer. He knocked it down with a fire extinguisher, but breathed in the fumes and the extinguishing agent. We had him on O2 and he was put into the back of an ambulance until they deemed he was OK.

Invest in a few of these:








They aren't designed to take heat so don't think you'll fight a fire with one of these on but if you do have to extinguish a fire in a confined space, this will help ensure you don't pass out from smoke inhalation in the process. Takes seconds to put on.


----------



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

PrepperFF712 said:


> We have our BOBs in our bedroom for just that. I'm working on the finances to be able to get a small storage locker with some supplies in case we aren't home if the house goes up. If it's in the middle of the night, or heck in the middle of the day and we're home, I have 2 bags that I grab and go.
> 
> I am a volunteer firefighter, so I know the importance of being prepared. Usually for me it's jumping out of bed in the middle of the night to go put someone else's fire out.
> 
> ...


They look a little costly at 50 US (75 US after import and shipping costs) each. Is there a cheaper source out there?

Breath OF Life Emergency Escape Mask BY Technon | eBay

At those prices is there a good reason not just to get a type 2 military mask?

Just looks like a filter for house fires would be cheaper and provide more bang for your buck.
eg. http://www.proki.org/filter-millennium.htm


----------



## Farva (Aug 26, 2015)

You're right on Grimm!

Sucks to make it past the big one only to have the neighborhood burn down because some idiot knocked over a candle or spilled the hibatchi.

I gotta think some more. Thanks again Grimm!


----------



## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

In a world of economic collapse, empty shelves in supermarkets, and possible loss of grid power I find it strange that a fire would be your greatest fear!! There is no fear that can even approach lack of food! That is hands down the biggest. Ok yes drinking water could be more critical, but at least drinking water is a fairly inexpensive solution, you can be stuffed to the gills on water filtration WAY easier than being stuffed to the gills on food.


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

This is one reason why I have a concrete bunker protecting much but not all of my stores.
There are three large halon fire bottles and plumbing protecting the interior.
To me, fire itself is not the fear but the loss caused by it.


----------



## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> In a world of economic collapse, empty shelves in supermarkets, and possible loss of grid power I find it strange that a fire would be your greatest fear!! There is no fear that can even approach lack of food! That is hands down the biggest. Ok yes drinking water could be more critical, but at least drinking water is a fairly inexpensive solution, you can be stuffed to the gills on water filtration WAY easier than being stuffed to the gills on food.


A lack of drinking water and food does not concern me AS MUCH. There's a difference there. I have LOTS of food
and I have hundreds of gallons of fresh water stored along with a big supply of filtration & purification supplies to
make more. I have a ton of ammo and firearms. I have a large amount of fuel.

Therefore I fear a rampaging fire because...thus far...I don't have a good prep for THAT!

The SHTF scenario that I consider to be most likely will be a prolonged loss of electrical power. Because of that I 
think there will be a GREAT number of people lighting candles for interior lighting and burning fires for cooking. It 
only takes ONE of those to get out of control and lead to a calamity. The world out there is populated by a large
number of folk who do not qualify for the term genius.

As one poster said earlier, to paraphrase, even those who are living in the wilderness will be at risk. Once a fire
starts, exactly WHERE will it end? If it gets to a forest edge there could be a HUGE area of land incinerated. Not
to put too fine a point on it, but a totally out-of-control fire could burn for weeks and cover tens of thousands of
acres (or more). It's a danger that most of us can't deal with except to run. But running-for-the-hills may not be 
an escape. What's to keep the fire from following you there?

Before the time of organized and well-equipped and trained fire departments there were many fire disasters. I
believe Chicago was one...San Francisco had another...and there were many more.

Grim


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

You are right to fear an out of control fire. Most cities have had them and many have had large areas burned more than once. Central London has only two wooden historical buildings remaining, after repeated fires they have required brick structures for decades. Much knowledge has been lost when museums and libraries burned. We have Newton's and Galileo's original books because candles were banned from their libraries before the invention of electric light.

As far as a defense against firestorms, there isn't one.


----------



## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Lol good points, millions of dumb asses who think that Bruce Jener made a great 'Woman of the Year' lighting fires in their homes everyday, i didn't think it through.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> As far as a defense against firestorms, there isn't one.


Yes there is, Don't live close to your neighbors.

Minimal tall trees close to the house, a good well with electric backup.


----------

