# Are You Prepared For The Spread Of Disease During A Pandemic Or Post SHTF?



## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

If you are like me, you start prepping small, then gradually add to your supplies and your knowledge base. You maybe prep for one possibility, then when comfortable with that, address other possibilities that could cause a crisis. Food, water & security are where we all start and I think it safe to say most preppers here are armed well enough to start (or finish) a small war. But are you armed to protect yourself, your family or your group from the spread of disease? Do you have the knowledge, the tools and the procedures ready to deal with this?

I think we all concentrate on fighting off intruders but maybe don't expend any effort on the diseases that will follow, or start a crisis. Many of us prep for others to join up after a crisis. You plan on maybe your adult kids joining up. Maybe other extended family & friends. You planning on bartering with others? What happens if one of these brings in a dangerous virus or disease? What if a disease is the cause of the crisis? The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than World War I , at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people. It has been cited as the most devastating epidemic in recorded world history. More people died of influenza in a single year than in four-years of the Black Death Bubonic Plague from 1347 to 1351. Known as "Spanish Flu" or "La Grippe" the influenza of 1918-1919 was a global disaster. This spread as our troops moved around the country and overseas, from camp to camp. Imagine it happening today with millions of folks flying all over the world every single day. Just in the US, over 2.5 million folks fly in & out of US airports. As the world has shrunk with international travel, pandemic is a great fear among health professionals. It will happen again. What if it is caused by an engineered virus, from some enemy?

By no means am I an expert. I'm just a prepper that has studied some & asked questions. Recently I started a discussion on respirators to be used during a crisis. So for me, I have given thought of how to isolate any folks that would come to my farmstead after a crisis. I also have increased supplies of items specific to ward off germs. This includes a couple of half face respirators with extra filters, goggles for the eyes, hundreds of disposable face masks, both N95s and Biomask antivirals, hundreds of nitrile gloves, tyvek body suits, gallons of disinfectant cleaner (Fabuloso) and pounds of pool shock used to make chlorine spray/wash. 

My plan is to quarantine any new arrivals for at least a week. They will be given face masks to help keep their germs in. One person will be tasked to bring food & check on the folks in quarantine. That is who will use the respirator, goggles, gloves & suit. Would hope to keep plenty of separation but if someone is sick & needs attention, then of course that would not be possible.

I have a question for you medical professionals. One concern is the proper removal of these protective items & I've seen videos on such as glove removal. Curious if the nitrile gloves could be reused if first dunked in a bucket of chlorinated water? Also, would it make sense to have a hand pump sprayer setup to spray the suit down with chlorinated water?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Damn, *******! Your posts are keeping me busy.

I'm woefully underprepared in this area also. I just have some N95 masks, gloves, chlorine, and a few antibiotics.

My best defense is to bug in and no one gets in. Don't forget to wear gloves to handle the mail.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

All I have is to stay isolated......


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> Damn, *******! Your posts are keeping me busy.
> 
> I'm woefully underprepared in this area also. I just have some N95 masks, gloves, chlorine, and a few antibiotics.
> 
> My best defense is to bug in and no one gets in. Don't forget to wear gloves to handle the mail.


Ha. Aren't you retired now? You need something to keep you busy.

As far as the chlorine, I highly suggest pool shock which is very stable & stores a long time. Even one pound makes many gallons. Liquid bleach looses strength quickly.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

rstanek said:


> All I have is to stay isolated......


If you are a loner and have no one that will join you, and you have all you need to survive by yourself, then isolation is all you need.

I, on the other hand will have family & friends joining us on the farmstead. At some point I'm sure we would make contact with neighbors. Any of these open up the possibility of a bug hitting us, so IMO we have to plan accordingly.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

good ideas all around. I have a LARGE family group that I'm sure, despite them NOT being any type of prepared, would converge on my place. I like the idea of some isolation but a location for that could be problematic. Maybe if the weather is good then a large tent (which I have) would suffice. Since I have a pool I have all the chlorine/shock/crap you could imagine but I'm woefully lacking in other items such as a respirator or mask. Need to catch up on that. I do have some n95 masks due to Harvey but will order another supply along with gloves. Updating my risk analysis the threat of pandemic is inching up with an impact that is very high.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

For reference, these are some of the items I have.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AEFCFMW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1










https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A12J3GI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1










https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KG88RUG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1










https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013SIIBFQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1










https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IQDSDU2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1










https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GU7U0A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

No need to go into a populated area or near strangers, that's why we prep. Anything comes within range will be dealt with. As it will truly be a life and death situation. Regardless if they are sick, trying to steal etc.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Chipper said:


> No need to go into a populated area or near strangers, that's why we prep. Anything comes within range will be dealt with. As it will truly be a life and death situation. Regardless if they are sick, trying to steal etc.


Once again, this discussion has to do with those of us that expect to interact with others after the SHTF. Some here are loners & will accept no one into their abode. If no one is allowed in, then you have no concern with disease coming in.

But for the rest of us folks that know family and others will join, then this is a concern. I prep & will not be going into populated areas, unless I have to retrieve family. I prep for the unexpected, as well as the expected.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

******* said:


> If you are like me, you start prepping small, then gradually add to your supplies and your knowledge base. You maybe prep for one possibility, then when comfortable with that, address other possibilities that could cause a crisis. Food, water & security are where we all start and I think it safe to say most preppers here are armed well enough to start (or finish) a small war. But are you armed to protect yourself, your family or your group from the spread of disease? Do you have the knowledge, the tools and the procedures ready to deal with this?
> 
> I think we all concentrate on fighting off intruders but maybe don't expend any effort on the diseases that will follow, or start a crisis. Many of us prep for others to join up after a crisis. You plan on maybe your adult kids joining up. Maybe other extended family & friends. You planning on bartering with others? What happens if one of these brings in a dangerous virus or disease? What if a disease is the cause of the crisis? The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than World War I , at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people. It has been cited as the most devastating epidemic in recorded world history. More people died of influenza in a single year than in four-years of the Black Death Bubonic Plague from 1347 to 1351. Known as "Spanish Flu" or "La Grippe" the influenza of 1918-1919 was a global disaster. This spread as our troops moved around the country and overseas, from camp to camp. Imagine it happening today with millions of folks flying all over the world every single day. Just in the US, over 2.5 million folks fly in & out of US airports. As the world has shrunk with international travel, pandemic is a great fear among health professionals. It will happen again. What if it is caused by an engineered virus, from some enemy?
> 
> ...


Medical Gloves can not be reused unless your not worrried about sterile conditions Cleaning damages the protective coating and they leak even with soap. True for laytex and as far as I know nitrile. Dunking them way rinse something off but they will not be sterile. Also note that 25percent of new gloves are defective out of the box.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Camel923 said:


> Medical Gloves can not be reused unless your not worrried about sterile conditions Cleaning damages the protective coating and they leak even with soap. True for laytex and as far as I know nitrile. Dunking them way rinse something off but they will not be sterile.


I'm confused, as chlorine is a sterilizer and kills viruses & other microbes. So why would dunking them in a sterilizer not make them sterile? But yes, I am concerned if a chlorine solution would damage nitrile. I don't think so because there are articles telling folks to use nitrile gloves when working with chlorine solutions.

I understand in a normal environment one would not want to reuse gloves but we are talking post crisis when you can't make a run down to Walmart.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

******* said:


> I'm confused, as chlorine is a sterilizer and kills viruses & other microbes. So why would dunking them in a sterilizer not make them sterile? But yes, I am concerned if a chlorine solution would damage nitrile. I don't think so because there are articles telling folks to use nitrile gloves when working with chlorine solutions.
> 
> I understand in a normal environment one would not want to reuse gloves but we are talking post crisis when you can't make a run down to Walmart.


Cold sterilization takes soaking in the correct solution for about eight hours.

Somethings do not sterilize well or dissolve in the solutions. The gloves will not protect you if you actually sterilize them. A friend of mine did some experiments with the latex gloves about 25 years ago and that was the findings. You will put yourself in danger if you adequately sterilize the gloves and reuse them or someone else if they are not sterile but wiped off.

I get the better than nothing in SHTF. I have to State I have not seen similar data/experiments on the nitrile gloves.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

I'm almost of the school of thought gloves might do more harm than good. They can protect you but that feeling of security might mean one is more inclined to spread germs. I eat a lot of Subway & watch how the employees in gloves are touching all sorts of surfaces... from the paper, to knives, to shelves to put in the toaster, baskets, etc. If you don't have a cut I'm thinking it might be safer just to wash your hands between tasks.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

There is more to infection control than personal protective equipment. Staying in a sterile field and not venturing out is just as if not more important.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

******* said:


> I have a question for you medical professionals. One concern is the proper removal of these protective items & I've seen videos on such as glove removal. Curious if the nitrile gloves could be reused if first dunked in a bucket of chlorinated water? Also, would it make sense to have a hand pump sprayer setup to spray the suit down with chlorinated water?


For those of you who have done a NBC decon drill/ decon lane while in the service it is the same thing you did for chemical , nuclear or biological - natural illness or bio attack. Between the contaminated area and the clean you want to wash down ,move to a cleaner area , take off outer cloths , move to a cleaner area , wash , Last things you take off is the mask and gloves , Yes dipping gloves into a solution then removing mask without touching face then remove gloves and immediately wash your hands. Do not place your hands back in the bleach bucket - a clean sink or clean bucket. The more area/ distance you got to move between each station the better.

I you have training in hazmat the decon lane is set up using the same principles.

Pandemic 
Self Isolate - the more provisions you got and the more you do not travel/ interact with others the better. Have a place to receive new comers so they can quarantine themselves for a period of time This could be a barn, tents, second home/cabin . After at least 7 days if no illness let them in - some disease this would be a longer period do not know what the disease is plan to wait 21 days before letting people into your compound. Wait until the surrounding area is disease free for at least 21 days and the public health authorities have lifted any travel restrictions.

Stay up on routine immunizations and stay healthy - diet , exercise, sleep . Get any prophylactic medications/ immunizations when offered. Where a mask and gloves , tyvek to get the immunization/ medications and decon prior to entering your home.

Daily Monitor temperatures - any fever isolate that person . Area for them to be when they are sick where they do not interact with everyone - camper/ garden shed . Take food to the sick person but leave it outside they open door and get it . You talk by radio/telephone or thru a closed window. If you must go into give care wear disposable clothing/ PPE and decon on way out .

A 2 gallon sprayer or camp shower sprayer would be a good thing to have . When you build try and make a mud porch with a shower/laundry room on the way into your home . Many farm families would love to have this set up. Come in dirty, disease, grease or manure from working with animals , you drop muddy boots put dirty clothes in the washer and shower up prior to going into the house . That way you do not track dirt/ disease into your home.

Here is a CDC guidance on Ebola PPE we do not know of anything worse than Ebola so do this for anything you do not know. https://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/healthcare-us/ppe/guidance.html

Everyone should understand Universal Precautions for Blood and body fluids.

Deaths - you need to bury or burn . They die of a fever with some type of infection all the cloth in the room should be burned, buried or washed with bleach and dried. Hard surface sprayed with bleach solution .


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I remember one of the few "Doomsday Prepper" episodes that I thought was a few point above most. The main 
character was a woman, possibly a nurse, who put together a decent protocol for decontamination, making sure 
any family who might be contaminated were quarantined somewhere in the house, and quarantine conditions 
were going to be maintained for 10 days or 2 weeks. 
Obviously since we are prepared, the necessity to expose ourselves to possible contamination is not really 
necessary once everyone in the family is accounted for. Since it is just my wife and I, and she was an ER nurse 
and I a paramedic, I feel pretty good about our chances. Especially since we are retired and don't have to worry
about children and crumb munchers bringing something bad home from school. We have had so much as a cold
since retiring to AZ.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

*A useful recipe for dehydration* of people afflicted with flu, etc. causing dehydration
*World Health Organization ORS (Oral Rehydration Salts) Recipe*
3/8 tsp salt (sodium chloride)
¼ tsp Morton® Salt Substitute® (potassium chloride)
½ tsp baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
2 tbsp + 2 tsp sugar (sucrose)
Add water (boiled and cooled) to make one (1) liter
Optional: Nutrasweet® or Splenda® based flavoring of choice, to taste
1. Add the dry ingredients to a 1 liter bottle.
2. Add enough water to make a final volume of 1 liter; mix well.
3. If desired, add Nutrasweet® or Splenda® based flavoring, to taste. Mix well.
4. Sip as directed by your physician.
5. Discard after 24 hours.

Contains 27 grams of sucrose, 70 mEq per liter of sodium, 20 mEq per liter of potassium and 30 mEq per liter of bicarbonate. The final osmolarity is approximately 245 mOsm per liter.

Basic Dosage: Conversions:
Start with small amounts (5 ml every 5 min) and gradually increase as tolerated. 1 teaspoon = 5 ml
Infants 0-6 months old: 30 ml to 90 ml every hour 1 Tablespoon = 15 ml
6 - 24 months old: 90 ml to 125 ml every hour 1 ounce = 30 ml
2 years and older: 125 ml to 250 ml every hour 1 kilogram= 2.2 pounds
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
Physical Examination Findings in Pediatric Dehydration
Degree of Dehydration 
Mild (< 3% body weight lost) 
Moderate (3-9% body weight lost) 
Severe (>9% body weight lost) unconscious

Mental status Normal -- alert Restless or fatigued -- irritable Apathetic -- lethargic. 
Heart rate Normal -- Normal to increased Tachycardia or bradycardia 
Quality of pulse Normal -- Normal to decreased Weak, thready, impalpable 
Breathing Normal Normal to increased. Tachypnea and hyperpnea 
Eyes Normal. Slightly sunken. -- Deeply sunken 
Fontanelles Normal -- Slightly sunken -- Deeply sunken 
Tears Normal -- Normal to decreased -- Absent 
Mucous membranes Moist -- Dry -- Parched 
Skin turgor Instant recoil Recoil < 2 seconds Recoil >2 seconds 
Capillary refill < 2 seconds Prolonged Minimal 
Extremities Warm -- Cool -- Mottled, cyanotic 
Adapted from King CK, Glass R, Bresee JS, et al. Managing acute gastroenteritis among children: oral rehydration, maintenance, and nutritional therapy.MMWR Recomm Rep. Nov 21 2003;52(RR-16):1-16.[4]

How and when should an oral rehydration solution be used?
It is essential to drink extra fluids as soon as diarrhea starts.
Most healthy adults with uncomplicated travelers' diarrhea can stay hydrated without ORS by drinking purified water, clear soups, or diluted juices or sports drinks. Although it may not be necessary, healthy adults with mild diarrhea can also use ORS.
Dehydration from diarrhea is more of a concern in children, those with underlying medical conditions, and the elderly. ORS should be considered for these individuals.
Fluids should be consumed at a rate to satisfy thirst and maintain pale-colored urine.

Dosing based on stages of Dehydration:
Oral Protocol (Pediatric) 
A. Mild Dehydration (standard replacement)
B. Moderate Dehydration (accelerated replacement)
C. Ongoing losses (added replacement per stool or Emesis)
D. Vomiting

1. Total ORS: 50 ml/kg over 4 hours by syringe, spoon or cup
2. Give 1 ml/kg of ORS by syringe every 5 minutes for 4 hours or
3. Give 3 ml/kg of ORS every 15 minutes for 4 hours

1. Total ORS: 100 ml/kg over 4 hours
2. Infant: 1 ounce/hour
a. Give 30 ml per hour of ORS
b. Give 5-10 ml (1-2 tsp) every 15 minutes
3. Toddler: 2 ounces/hour
a. Give 60 ml per hour of ORS
b. Give 15 ml (3 tsp) every 15 minutes
4. Child: 3 ounces/hour
a. Give 90 ml per hour of ORS
b. Give 20-25 ml (1/2 to 1 oz) every 15 minutes

1. Method 1: Give an additional 10 ml/kg per stool or 2 ml/kg per Emesis or
2. Method 2: Give an additional one-half to one cup ORS per stool (older children)

1. Pause feeding for 30-60 minutes if Vomiting occurs
2. Give 5-10 ml every 5 minutes
3. May resume above Diarrhea replacement after no Vomiting for 30-60 minutes
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Another acceptable dosing strategy: 
Children under 2 years 50-100 mL (¼ to ½ cup) after each episode of diarrhea 
Children 2 to 9 years 100-200 mL (½ to 1 cup) after each episode of diarrhea 
Persons 10 years or older As much as wanted, up to approximately 2L (8½ cups) a day 
Infants should continue to receive breast milk or their usual formula in addition to ORS. Children who are no 
longer nursing and adults should continue to eat solid food in addition to ORS.
Avoid alcohol, caffeinated or sugary drinks like coffee, energy drinks, pop, sweetened fruit juices, and tea. 
Alcohol and caffeine can worsen dehydration and sugary drinks can worsen diarrhea.
Seek medical attention if the diarrhea is bloody, is accompanied by a high fever, jaundice (yellow skin), or 
persistent vomiting, or if dehydration or diarrhea does not improve despite the use of ORS.

I've seen this on Amazon, but go with World Health ORG. only


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Good post @*******. Of all my preparations this is the area I am most lacking in and am most afraid of. I am an old street fighter, I go after what I can see. Disease is an insidious unseen menace and will be a byproduct of any SHTF event you can think of, if not the cause. It's not if, but when.

So, I have recently begun more research into this and have begun to put in place the tools and knowledge needed to at least give me a fighting chance. Good thread.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

paraquack said:


> *A useful recipe for dehydration* of people afflicted with flu, etc. causing dehydration
> *World Health Organization ORS (Oral Rehydration Salts) Recipe*


Damn fine post sir. This was the next area I wanted to address... how to treat folks that become sick during the quarantine. I've read of such recipes and have most, if not all the ingredients. I've considered stocking powdered electrolytes but this should make more sense.

So what else should we have available? If it is viral, you can't really fight it but I assume you treat the symptoms. So I carry plenty of pain/fever reducers, diarrhea meds and antibiotics (to treat follow on bacterial infections.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

This one is all about where you live and how many people you're in contact with on a regular basis. The chances of survival go way down if you live in a city. By the time you figure out there is a serious problem, it will be too late. If you're actually worried about this I hope you live in the countryside where you can isolate yourself and watch what unfolds from a distance.

That said, I'm screwed!! I'm a hour from Philly, 3 from NYC, 2+ from DC. I would have to drive 10+ hours to get to no mans land.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Mish said:


> This one is all about where you live and how many people you're in contact with on a regular basis. The chances of survival go way down if you live in a city. By the time you figure out there is a serious problem, it will be too late. If you're actually worried about this I hope you live in the countryside where you can isolate yourself and watch what unfolds from a distance.
> 
> That said, I'm screwed!! I'm a hour from Philly, 3 from NYC, 2+ from DC. I would have to drive 10+ hours to get to no mans land.


But even those of us living in the country will have guests arriving from wherever. Some of our family lives in Memphis

I can't even comprehend living in such close proximity to so many millions of people.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

*Never* try to get an unconscious person to drink anything, period. They will probably choke or 
inhale the liquid and then you got unbelievably serious problems.

Quarantining family will be difficult but will be a necessity. You need to explain the immediate family 
members that expect to come to your home/location the absolute necessity. Family who show up that 
aren't expected, will call you crazy, etc. but you must maintain quarantine. The Spanish flu killed 
somewhere between 20 and 0 million people, and some put the death toll as high as 125 million. With 
the world population estimated to be just over 1.5 billion in that era, we could be talking about 1 person 
dying out of every 10. Most influenza outbreaks disproportionately kill juvenile, elderly, or already 
weakened patients; in contrast, the 1918 pandemic seemed to kill healthy young adults. About 20%, 
one in five people infected, died from this flu. Normally a flu epidemic kills about 0.1% of those infected.

The woman prepper I spoke of in the previous post set up an outside shower facility and *everyone* was 
required to shower, put on clean clothes, before being allowed to go into the house or quarantine. Remember
kids going to school are going to have a must greater exposure level. Adults working with the public, cashiers
at Walmart as an example are in the same level of exposure.

Per PreparedOne's thoughts, when you can't see the enemy, it's pretty damn scary. 
Fever reducers are ok, but don't get carries away. Fever is one of the bodies methods to fight infection. 
But when the body's temp gets too high, well you know, too much of a good thing can kill you. My 
teaching said 102 F degrees is the highest you want to see. 
Physically cooling a patient with cool compresses can do a lot for high temps too. Oh, and don't get 
carried away with bundling up a person running a fever if they complain of chills. A mother had her 
13 year old daughter bundled up with all sorts of blankets including an electric blanket because the 
daughter complained of chills. When the mother finally called the ambulance, we found the daughter 
running a fever of 105 F. Stripped the bedding off her and cooled her down as fast as possible to try 
an prevent brain damage from the high body temp.

For me, once the disease gets within a state of me, I'm going on lock down. That's the whole purpose
of having preps. Since we left friends and family 1300 miles away when we moved to southern AZ, the
odds are in out favor., I hope!

Here's an interesting article about quarantine. http://apreparedhome.com/ready-or-not/quarantine-sick-family-members/


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Mish said:


> This one is all about where you live and how many people you're in contact with on a regular basis. The chances of survival go way down if you live in a city. By the time you figure out there is a serious problem, it will be too late. If you're actually worried about this I hope you live in the countryside where you can isolate yourself and watch what unfolds from a distance.
> 
> That said, I'm screwed!! I'm a hour from Philly, 3 from NYC, 2+ from DC. I would have to drive 10+ hours to get to no mans land.


Well crap Mishy ...... your kinda stuck between a rock and a liberal, huh? :devil:


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

A Watchman said:


> Well crap Mishy ...... your kinda stuck between a rock and a liberal, huh? :devil:


Where I live is mostly conservatives. Very religious area.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Lucky you, I can just imagine if you were somewhere else.


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## C.L.Ripley (Jul 6, 2014)

If the pandemic is airborne and reaches your neigborhood or area you'll need a way to filter the outside air. I've seen people using HEPA filters with a shop-vac to DIY an air purification system but I can't find any of those links showing the plans. The point is you can have all the masks, supplies, plastic sheeting etc. in the world. But if you don't have a way to purifify the outside air coming into your home all that stuff probably won't do you as much good. I've heard more than one expert say that just staying isolated is not as safe as people think it is.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

******* said:


> Damn fine post sir. This was the next area I wanted to address... how to treat folks that become sick during the quarantine. I've read of such recipes and have most, if not all the ingredients. I've considered stocking powdered electrolytes but this should make more sense.
> 
> So what else should we have available? If it is viral, you can't really fight it but I assume you treat the symptoms. So I carry plenty of pain/fever reducers, diarrhea meds and antibiotics (to treat follow on bacterial infections.


The CDC web page has information now posted on flu . Should anther disease cause an epidemic they will post info on how to treat, home care, incubation times , infection control.

You may not know if the person has disease from a virus or a bacteria. May not matter if you do not have any antiviral or antibiotics or the antibiotics may not be very effective for what you have. You treat symptoms keep the person hydrated, treat diarrhea, keep fever down , rest, nutrition , O2, suction and hope they get better. You may or may not ever know the name of what a person has. In the past we think we know what diseases effected people at various times /places but those are actually guesses based on the symptoms described. Many disease show up first as a low grade fever .


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

C.L.Ripley said:


> If the pandemic is airborne and reaches your neigborhood or area you'll need a way to filter the outside air. I've seen people using HEPA filters with a shop-vac to DIY an air purification system but I can't find any of those links showing the plans. The point is you can have all the masks, supplies, plastic sheeting etc. in the world. But if you don't have a way to purifify the outside air coming into your home all that stuff probably won't do you as much good. I've heard more than one expert say that just staying isolated is not as safe as people think it is.


If you have a box fan, some filters and tape you can filter outside air. Use cardboard and or plastic to seal everything tight around the filter then place the fan to pull air thru the filter into the room /house. The video should give you an idea of what I am talking about.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Even today with Tyvek wrap on houses, houses leak an awful lot of air. But the methods you describe are more suited for poisonous gases.
The CDC does not recommend use of special air handling measures in most settings, since available data indicate that influenza aerosols typically transmit infection only over relatively short distances (up to about six feet). CDC does have one exception to this policy: it recommends air filtration in health care settings where aerosol generating medical procedures are performed on patients with suspected or confirmed influenza.
Airborne diseases spread easily in close quarters, such as schools and nursing homes. Large outbreaks tend to occur under crowded conditions and in places where hygiene and sanitation systems are poor.
Although it’s impossible to completely avoid airborne pathogens, there are some things you can do to lower your chances of getting sick:
Avoid close contact with people who have active symptoms of disease.
Stay home when you’re sick. Don’t let vulnerable people come in close contact with you.
If you must be around others, wear a face mask to prevent spreading or breathing in germs.
Cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze. Use a tissue or your elbow to cut down on the 
possibility of transmitting germs on your hands.
Wash your hands thoroughly (at least 20 seconds) and often, especially after sneezing or coughing.
Wash half way up your lower arms.
Avoid touching your face or other people with unwashed hands.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Mish said:


> This one is all about where you live and how many people you're in contact with on a regular basis. The chances of survival go way down if you live in a city. By the time you figure out there is a serious problem, it will be too late. If you're actually worried about this I hope you live in the countryside where you can isolate yourself and watch what unfolds from a distance.
> 
> That said, I'm screwed!! I'm a hour from Philly, 3 from NYC, 2+ from DC. I would have to drive 10+ hours to get to no mans land.


If it gets too bad, me and mine will make way up to you Mish and pick up you and yours and get y'all back to Slippy Lodge...:vs_wave:

(I got me some bad Mo-Fo's who will descend upon Slippy Lodge to make it work Post SHTF!)


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Mish said:


> This one is all about where you live and how many people you're in contact with on a regular basis. The chances of survival go way down if you live in a city. By the time you figure out there is a serious problem, it will be too late. If you're actually worried about this I hope you live in the countryside where you can isolate yourself and watch what unfolds from a distance.
> 
> That said, I'm screwed!! I'm a hour from Philly, 3 from NYC, 2+ from DC. I would have to drive 10+ hours to get to no mans land.


Likewise! I live in the 4th largest city in the country with an ever so slight illegal immigration problem, :vs_shocked: as well as an international business and legal immigration destination ( Oil and Gas baby ). If a bad ass bug out of hell gets loose no doubt it will find it's way here. If it's a super bad ass bug those in the country won't be spared. As for me, I will isolate and hope to survive with what I have acquired in knowledge and preps to combat it. Guns, ammo, and a mean disposition won't win the day in this fight.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

******* said:


> I'm confused, as chlorine is a sterilizer and kills viruses & other microbes. So why would dunking them in a sterilizer not make them sterile? But yes, I am concerned if a chlorine solution would damage nitrile. I don't think so because there are articles telling folks to use nitrile gloves when working with chlorine solutions.
> 
> I understand in a normal environment one would not want to reuse gloves but we are talking post crisis when you can't make a run down to Walmart.


If you've isolated yourself and your immediate family, you're not going to be going out much, so a box of disposable gloves will go a long way, even if used once. I also bought a pair of comfortable long-sleeved "rubber" gloves for each member of my family. If we need to use them, we'll just dip our hands in alcohol or straight bleach to just below the top of the gloves, wait a few minutes, then take them off to dry.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

With regard to the period of quarantine, it should be at least as long as it takes for 99% of infected people to show symptoms if they are contagious. That will probably be more than a week.

Create an isolation room or rooms, (If possible, even the isolated should be isolated from each other, because some may be infected, and others not.). Take everything out of the rooms you might use later, (because it may become infected), and pre-position everything you can that the isolated people will need during the isolation period, -including more than one poop or fresh water bucket, if needed. Food can be delivered to the door, and the isolated can recover it later without touching anything else.

If someone is infected, you will need a complete protective covering, (and a way to sterilize it), to enter the room if you choose to care for them when they can't care for themselves. The care giver will also need to be in separate isolation for the full isolation period after their last contact with the patient. If the infected dies there, it would be best to close off the room with their body in it. Perhaps, if others are infected, but can still get around, they can bury the body for you.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

******* said:


> If you are a loner and have no one that will join you, and you have all you need to survive by yourself, then isolation is all you need.
> 
> I, on the other hand will have family & friends joining us on the farmstead. At some point I'm sure we would make contact with neighbors. Any of these open up the possibility of a bug hitting us, so IMO we have to plan accordingly.


Why can't your friends and family just stay where they are until it's safe to come out? Wouldn't that be safer for you and them? I'm not letting anyone into our public home spaces unless they need to, agree to go through quarantine first, and then are staying with us.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

Camel923 said:


> Cold sterilization takes soaking in the correct solution for about eight hours.
> 
> Somethings do not sterilize well or dissolve in the solutions. The gloves will not protect you if you actually sterilize them. A friend of mine did some experiments with the latex gloves about 25 years ago and that was the findings. You will put yourself in danger if you adequately sterilize the gloves and reuse them or someone else if they are not sterile but wiped off.
> 
> I get the better than nothing in SHTF. I have to State I have not seen similar data/experiments on the nitrile gloves.


I believe that the main reason re-using disposable gloves is not recommended is because it is easy for them to develop tiny holes that you can't detect with the eye.


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## yooper_sjd (May 14, 2017)

WOW who da hell poked TGus with the spammer cattle prod?????????????


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

C.L.Ripley said:


> If the pandemic is airborne and reaches your neigborhood or area you'll need a way to filter the outside air. I've seen people using HEPA filters with a shop-vac to DIY an air purification system but I can't find any of those links showing the plans. The point is you can have all the masks, supplies, plastic sheeting etc. in the world. But if you don't have a way to purifify the outside air coming into your home all that stuff probably won't do you as much good. I've heard more than one expert say that just staying isolated is not as safe as people think it is.


I've personally never heard of an airborne communicable pathogen that posed any threat more than 20 feet away, but if there is such a thing, maybe closing all your windows would work.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

yooper_sjd said:


> WOW who da hell poked TGus with the spammer cattle prod?????????????


What ...? This is one of my favorite SHTF topics!

Let this be a warning to others.


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## yooper_sjd (May 14, 2017)

TGus said:


> I've personally never heard of an airborne communicable pathogen that posed any threat more than 20 feet away, but if there is such a thing, maybe closing all your windows would work.


If someone coughs, and it is windy, I think it will go alittle further than 20 ft. you may want to just tape up over your windows with a good 2 or 3 ply plastic. tape up around doors, even inside air vents!!!!!!!!!! You may need to google some military CBR training tapes there TGus. In a scenario like this, you maybe one of the 1st casualties with them 5 renters coming and going from your home.

yoop


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

yooper_sjd said:


> If someone coughs, and it is windy, I think it will go alittle further than 20 ft. you may want to just tape up over your windows with a good 2 or 3 ply plastic. tape up around doors, even inside air vents!!!!!!!!!! You may need to google some military CBR training tapes there TGus. In a scenario like this, you maybe one of the 1st casualties with them 5 renters coming and going from your home.
> 
> yoop


There's no doubt that it can go further than 20 feet, but the question is, how much of it will go 20 feet? In order to catch most pathogens, there is a count threshold that has to be met. The threshold is a lot more than 1 virus organism.

As for the renters, they have separate entrances and apartments. When my family goes into isolation, they'll get a thorough lecture from me about what's best for them, and what protection and procedures they'll need.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

If there ever is a SHTF situation that affects water and sewer more people will probably die of cholera than starvation or dehydration. Just a thought, pandemics are a real danger, but most viral pathogens will evolve to less lethal forms for their own survival.


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## humanreloaded (Aug 12, 2018)

We can work on our immunity now, building it up, stockpiling herbal medicines, fortifying our environments to prepare to filter out the pathogens, keep books on hand.

Biological warfare is another major concern.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Ha. Looking back at old threads and saw this one. I'd forgotten all about it but seems rather pertinent nowadays.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

******* said:


> Ha. Looking back at old threads and saw this one. I'd forgotten all about it but seems rather pertinent nowadays.


I'm very concerned about some family members. They live and work in NYC. Cousin's in the medical profession and I haven't heard from her in weeks. It's not like her. :sad2: I tried getting in touch with her parents in North Carolina and they're not answering the phone. Not like them, either. Sure hope they're all okay.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Annie said:


> Sure hope they're all okay.


 @Annie, I'll add your family to my prayers tonight.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

******* said:


> @Annie, I'll add your family to my prayers tonight.


Thanks. These are such crazy times. The news is whipping people up with so much fear about this virus and our freedoms in this country are truly in danger. The value of a dollar is in the trash... I'm just trying to remember that nobody can so much as touch us unless God permits it, and if He permits it, it's to bring about a greater good.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I guess right about now many are finding out the answer to take question.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

******* said:


> For reference, these are some of the items I have.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AEFCFMW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


I was wondering if a properly-made hard plastic shield that would *cover the face and all the way to the chest area* would even be better? 
I envision something that also extends *past your head* to protect your hair from catching any of the floating virus. 
Another model for this would be a helmet with the plastic shield attached to it.

You wouldn't need goggles for this. This is an all-in-one. Plastic can easily be sanitized afterwards. 
The pandemic can last for a long time. You can easily make many of these.
The face mask (optional), that you use in addition to the shield can be reusable since it was only used as an added protection (just let it sit in the sun to sanitize itself afterwards).

You'll need lots of disposable gloves though, hick gloves that can be easily sanitized. Maybe, designate only one person to take care of new-comers that are quarantined? This person has to be reliable and *conscientious* in his task. With all the prepping and planning, you don't want it going for naught with a slip-up.

This designated person will always use the same designated clothings (which will be dumped in a pot of boiling water/soap) after each use.
He will immediately sanitize/wash his hands *before* donning his change clothings.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

charito said:


> I was wondering if a properly-made hard plastic shield that would *cover the face and all the way to the chest area* would even be better?
> I envision something that also extends *past your head* to protect your hair from catching any of the floating virus.
> Another model for this would be a helmet with the plastic shield attached to it.
> 
> ...


I'm not a big fan of gloves, for normal tasks such as caring for the folks quarantined. Not used properly or removed properly, they can do more damage than good. The way I see it, the virus has to enter your body thru an opening. Unless injured, that means eyes, nose & mouth. So as soon as you remove the protective gear, you just need to sanitize your hands. This is actually what I do now when I pump gas or go to the store. Soon as I'm in my truck & remove my mask, I use hand sanitizer. When I pump gas, I leave the door open so as not to touch the handle or anything in the truck. When I shop, I always grab some extra sanitizer wipes and fold them in my hand, to use to wipe my hands down prior to opening my truck door.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I use the gloves twice then discard, they are sprayed with 95% ethyl alcohol, Eucerin and iodine mix.

Treated first while still on, then when removed, in this first spray the lower parts of the sleeves/cuffs are done also..

Hands are then sprayed after removal of the gloves also.

They are sprayed again before the second removal and disposing of, in the stove.

I wear them because of all the minor nicks and scratches I get from working on guns.

If wearing a Tyvek suit, chlorinated spraying of the exterior is what is needed.

I garnered 6 hand pumped USGI DECON kits from Ft. Devens when closing, one will be filled if and when needed. 

I am isolated in the woods and like it that way, virtually no contact with anyone, families all dead save one brother.

Same with friends most have passed or live a long way off, just the two of us, 4 dogs and one cat.

I am all set to deal with bacterial problems, have meds and a lab to identify any if needed, but not viral types.

Stuff I have bought in the stores have been left for 3-4 yays in the jeeps for bio safety reasons.

Products like meats that needed to be refrigerated were sprayed before being brought in, 

that COVID and other viral stuff can survive a long time when frozen even at 100 below zero. 

I have seriously considered wearing an M17a1 protective mask when out.

I have two of the susceptibilities that are a threat to my life,

age and diabetic, and I don't wish to tempt the hand of Providence.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Do all the youngsters have a stash of these?

I remember the 1980s when STDs became deadly.

Getting a good mate forever is best solution............

















And keep you "gun" clean.....


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

A word of advice, DO NOT long term store any gun with the muzzle blocked in any way,

with a rubber, cleaning patch or other item!!!!!!!!!

What will happen is the bore will rust if carbon steel or chromed.

It is OK to use for a day in the field or crawling around sand dunes.

I have seen many barrels ruined over the years from this.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> A word of advice, DO NOT long term store any gun with the muzzle blocked in any way,
> 
> with a rubber, cleaning patch or other item!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 @SOCOM42, for wet weather hunting. *Only on spotless clean barrels.* Keeps out snow/dirt too.

For BP ML I've left them that way for months, but using duct tape, cut to fit muzzle. It is sealed on cap side with wax. BP is corrosive (substitutes are *worse/more corrosive/harder to clean*, but if barrel is spotless, and a thin coat of lube from patch or conical coats bore all is well. Even after two years, BP ML fired to same zero, barrel fine. These are GM barrels in TC/Lyman guns I bought new barrels for.

If I shoot, I clean. Others may differ. I won't shoot my 22LR without cleaning it soon. I clean until patches come clean, leave wet solvent overnight, check again. If needed clean again. I use copper solvent for CFR. Short term storage I run a wet patch with LSA, long term a coating of grease.

BP ML I clean with hot water/soap, then dry. They tend to flash rust even when cleaned. I run alcohol though after cleaning, dry over radiator or near woodstove, then put in rust preventative, usually what I use for patch lube which is non-corrosive and has no oils that go rancid.


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