# 80 years ago



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

"The deadliest conflict in human history began exactly 80 years ago. On Sept. 1, 1939, Nazi Germany invaded Poland. Britain and France came to Poland’s defense, and suddenly World War II was underway. Estimates of civilian and military deaths in the war go as high as 85 million."

Think about what the world today would look like had the US not stepped in.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Approximately 17 million Americans served in the military during WW2. Over 1 million were killed or wounded. The US amassed the greatest fighting force ever seen in the world.

I've neither read nor heard of young men back in 1941 being confused about which bathroom to use, or if they needed a safe place to cuddle a puppy because someone called them a name.

But I am not a military historian so @rice paddy daddy please chime in!


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Imagine if Germany would have waited 5 years and developed the weapons they had designed near the end. Biplanes fighting jets and they would have had nukes. Would be a total different world then we have now.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> .................. Think about what the world today would look like had the US not stepped in.


I would rather not think about it, . . . as we would probably be speaking German or Japanese, . . . and I am not comfortable with either.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Approximately 17 million Americans served in the military during WW2. Over 1 million were killed or wounded. The US amassed the greatest fighting force ever seen in the world.
> 
> I've neither read nor heard of young men back in 1941 being confused about which bathroom to use, or if they needed a safe place to cuddle a puppy because someone called them a name.
> 
> But I am not a military historian so @rice paddy daddy please chime in!


No safe places or IBGTL#@%#&# specific bathrooms in Normandy? The hell you say! :tango_face_wink:


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Approximately 17 million Americans served in the military during WW2. Over 1 million were killed or wounded. The US amassed the greatest fighting force ever seen in the world.
> 
> I've neither read nor heard of young men back in 1941 being confused about which bathroom to use, or if they needed a safe place to cuddle a puppy because someone called them a name.
> 
> But I am not a military historian so @rice paddy daddy please chime in!


Actually, there were a LOT of desertions. 
Also, Eisenhower used to fume at the number of USGI black market profiteers at work in places like Paris. He even mentioned this in his memoirs. "Crusade In Europe." When the number of Infantry riflemen got dangerously low, he issued orders for these rear echelon troops to be combed thru and any excess to be sent to the front line.
A lot of field grade and higher officers were sacked for being basically incompetent.

The most famous deserter was Pvt Eddie Slovick. He was the only one executed for it.

Popular history portrays the "greatest generation" as all being selfless heroes. But they were just regular people with all the flaws of regular people.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Actually, there were a LOT of desertions.
> Also, Eisenhower used to fume at the number of USGI black market profiteers at work in places like Paris. He even mentioned this in his memoirs. "Crusade In Europe." When the number of Infantry riflemen got dangerously low, he issued orders for these rear echelon troops to be combed thru and any excess to be sent to the front line.
> A lot of field grade and higher officers were sacked for being basically incompetent.
> 
> ...


Yes, of course the "Greatest Generation" had it's bad seeds and malcontents, as every generation does. But, looked at in it's entirety, I would say that Generation of the Great Depression and WWII had more grit and determination then anything I have seen in the last 30 years at least. Given the same circumstances as the 30's and 40's does anyone really think today's generation would rise to anywhere near the same level as the "Greatest Generation"? I am betting not.


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

"Man in the High Castle"? 

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Prepared One said:


> Yes, of course the "Greatest Generation" had it's bad seeds and malcontents, as every generation does. But, looked at in it's entirety, I would say that Generation of the Great Depression and WWII more grit and determination then anything I have seen in the last 30 years at least. Given the same circumstances as the 30's and 40's does anyone really think today's generation would rise to anywhere near the same level as the "Greatest Generation"? I am betting not.


The last vestiges gave out when Apollo got shut down by lack of funding.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> "The deadliest conflict in human history began exactly 80 years ago. On Sept. 1, 1939, Nazi Germany invaded Poland. Britain and France came to Poland's defense, and suddenly World War II was underway. Estimates of civilian and military deaths in the war go as high as 85 million."
> 
> Think about what the world today would look like had the US not stepped in.


What most folks don't understand is that France by her inaction in not invading Eastern Germany condemned Poland to fight the German Army all by herself.

History would have been much different if France had lived up to her pledge to Poland.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> The last vestiges gave out when Apollo got shut down by lack of funding.


Not sure what you are referring to BPH?

The space program, which ended up being very important to national defense, othewise was a huge waste of money. Supposedly going to the moon, accomplished little more than a timely sense of patriotism during the cold war. I believe we could have accomplished the national defense aspect without "going to the moon".


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Slippy said:


> Not sure what you are referring to BPH?
> 
> The space program, which ended up being very important to national defense, othewise was a huge waste of money. Supposedly going to the moon, accomplished little more than a timely sense of patriotism during the cold war. I believe we could have accomplished the national defense aspect without "going to the moon".


I'm referring to the collective effort to make it happen. If you want to politicize it and make the claim we never went, fine. But you gotta admit one of two things: Whether or not you believe 12 men set foot on the moon, it was either a HUGE accomplishment to make it happen, or a HUGE accomplishment to fake out the Russkies, the North Koreans, the Chinese, the East Germans, and all the other countries who would have had a tremendous propaganda coup if they had just ONE shred of proof it never happened (which, oddly enough, is a topic the moon-landing conspiracists never want to address).


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> I'm referring to the collective effort to make it happen. If you want to politicize it and make the claim we never went, fine. But you gotta admit one of two things: Whether or not you believe 12 men set foot on the moon, it was either a HUGE accomplishment to make it happen, or a HUGE accomplishment to fake out the Russkies, the North Koreans, the Chinese, the East Germans, and all the other countries who would have had a tremendous propaganda coup if they had just ONE shred of proof it never happened (which, oddly enough, is a topic the moon-landing conspiracists never want to address).


I cannot argue with you that it was a HUGE accomplishment either way.... But I ask the same question about most everything that government does..."Is it government's responsibility to do this"?

Yes, regarding national defense but No regarding an ego race with other countries. Who really cares if China or Russia "made it to the moon" first?

I don't.

I was too young to pay taxes at the time, but I do not want my tax dollars today to go toward a silly "race" against other countries.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Slippy said:


> ........... But I ask the same question about most everything that government does..."Is it government's responsibility to do this"?........


Given the technology and resources available at the time, Big Brother Inc would have been the only entity able to pull it off. And, at the time,_ the people were behind it_. It wasn't until we achieved the end-of-the-decade goal that support waned, NASA's budget got slashed, lopping off Apollos 18, 19 and 20.

I doubt Virgin Air- and SpaceX-type ventures would have even gotten off the ground (literally _and_ figuratively) back then.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> What most folks don't understand is that France by her inaction in not invading Eastern Germany condemned Poland to fight the German Army all by herself.
> 
> History would have been much different if France had lived up to her pledge to Poland.


Had anyone step up even a little when Germany went into Poland it would have been over right then and there.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Had anyone step up even a little when Germany went into Poland it would have been over right then and there.


Had anybody stepped up when Hitler went into the Sudetenland, things would have been different.
Had anybody stepped up when Hitler marched into the Rhineland, things would have been different.
Had anybody stepped up when Hitler annexed Austria, things would have been different.
Had anybody stepped up when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, things would have been different.
Had Churchill been in power instead of Chamberlain, things would have been different.

(I'm sure I have forgotten a few)


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> What most folks don't understand is that France by her inaction in not invading Eastern Germany condemned Poland to fight the German Army all by herself.
> 
> History would have been much different if France had lived up to her pledge to Poland.


Britain was part of that pact also.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> "The deadliest conflict in human history began exactly 80 years ago. On Sept. 1, 1939, Nazi Germany invaded Poland. Britain and France came to Poland's defense, and suddenly World War II was underway. Estimates of civilian and military deaths in the war go as high as 85 million."
> 
> Think about what the world today would look like had the US not stepped in.


If America had not gone in, Europe would still be Nazi, there were plenty of collaborators in France and Sweden, etc. France had a strong fascist movement, which joined up with the Nazis, after they invaded. And it had an incompetent leadership, which made it easy to defeat.

Think about Marshall Petain, their greatest military man, who escaped execution because he was senile, and 85 years old. America and France have themselves to blame in ways, because the war was easy to predict.



Chipper said:


> Imagine if Germany would have waited 5 years and developed the weapons they had designed near the end. Biplanes fighting jets and they would have had nukes. Would be a total different world then we have now.


The retard Nazi's drove off their best scientists and engineers, and sent them off in a panic, for their lives. The Germans did some research into atomic weapons, but it was a joke. Their best minds ended up at Los Alamos, Hitler was an idiot in ways, and he did not have any strategic thing, it was all tactical.



Real Old Man said:


> What most folks don't understand is that France by her inaction in not invading Eastern Germany condemned Poland to fight the German Army all by herself.
> 
> History would have been much different if France had lived up to her pledge to Poland.


And, when Germany took the Sudentanland, and Alsace-Lorraine, France just stood by and let it happen. They depended upon the Maginot Line, and a static defense; instead of an energetic offense. They should have had the sense to see Hitler for what he was, and then make the French Army, better than the German.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> What most folks don't understand is that France by her inaction in not invading Eastern Germany condemned Poland to fight the German Army all by herself.
> 
> History would have been much different if France had lived up to her pledge to Poland.


Patton: "I'd rather have a German division in front of me, than a French one behind me".

Poland got screwed by the Germans/French then later by the Russians.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Had anybody stepped up when Hitler went into the Sudetenland, things would have been different.
> Had anybody stepped up when Hitler marched into the Rhineland, things would have been different.
> Had anybody stepped up when Hitler annexed Austria, things would have been different.
> Had anybody stepped up when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, things would have been different.
> ...


You got enough of them down, it is a poignant way to summarize the whole thing.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

My Father saw it coming.

He enlisted late summer 1941. He wanted to be navy but was colorblind. Lucky for him/me. Those he enlisted with, that were USN, many are on the Arizona. 

My Father ended up 8th Air Force, Britain and Europe. 1942-1945 . 

"After a raid you had to land and of course that was also highly choreographed. The landing procedures for bomber formations that was required to get them all back onto the ground quickly without running into other planes in the pattern was also an SOP. Planes with wounded aboard landed first, then all undamaged planes, and finally seriously damaged ones landed last so that if they crashed the runway would not be closed."


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that if the French had not come to our aid during the Revolution, we would still be part of Great Britain.

I have friends in France that to this day remember and honor their American liberators.

ThanksGIs celebrates my division, the 5th Infantry, crossing the Moselle and freeing the villages of Dornot, and Corny.
I personally know the President of this organization, and have met her through our reunions.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

"The retard Nazi's drove off their best scientists and engineers, and sent them off in a panic, for their lives. The Germans did some research into atomic weapons, but it was a joke. Their best minds ended up at Los Alamos, Hitler was an idiot in ways, and he did not have any strategic thing, it was all tactical."

That's why I said IMAGINE if he would have waited 5 years. Not starting a war, killing people and not driving off his best scientists etc. Plus having all his resources available to develop weapons while not getting the crap bombed out of himself. 

Your 100% right, thank god he was an idiot.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Chipper said:


> .........Your 100% right, thank god he was an idiot.


And there's plenty of evidence that the Allies not only knew this, but decided not to attempt to kill him as any successor might be a bit smarter.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that if the French had not come to our aid during the Revolution, we would still be part of Great Britain.


Then again, RPD, we returned the favor saving the French from the Germans. In fact, we saved Italy despite their defection led by Il Duce.

I heard a statement on talk radio I had never considered. The USA freed most of Europe with the blood of their own patriots. We never kept any of the land we conquered, and even returned much of it back to Germany. Come to think of it, I do not remember any of the Hirohito's inner circle tossed into chains and paraded around Tokyo.

If I'm proud of anything as an American it's how the WWII generation unselfishly saved the free world and re-habilitated the peoples of previous foreign enemies.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Chipper said:


> Imagine if Germany would have waited 5 years and developed the weapons they had designed near the end. Biplanes fighting jets and they would have had nukes. Would be a total different world then we have now.


German admiral's and generals did not want to go to war until 1945-6.
Hitler was impatient for his war.
The Kriegsmarine admirals wanted that time to build a force equal to the British navy.
The surface raiders were just that, they were the equivalent of the of the battle-cruisers of the RN.
They (navy) wanted ships like the King George the fifth to slug it out with the Brits, and enough of them.
Admiral Raider had to make due with the U boats to cut shipping going into England,
in the area that were not in patrol range of aircraft.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> German admiral's and generals did not want to go to war until 1945-6.
> Hitler was impatient for his war.


While not being born until five years after the war, I'm glad that Hitler's generals finally got their way.

Could you imagine how it would have turned out if the Luftwaffe would have all flown jet aircraft and started their world war by bombing England back to the stone age. It took America, France, England and some of Russia to sack the Third Reich in only four years.

There was a story in the old Readers Digest on how some of our fighters flying P-51 Mustangs saw their first jet-powered German fighter.

Here's what I found:

_The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow") in fighter versions, or Sturmvogel (German: "Storm Bird") in fighter-bomber versions, was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft._


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The Tourist said:


> While not being born until five years after the war, I'm glad that Hitler's generals finally got their way.
> 
> Could you imagine how it would have turned out if the Luftwaffe would have all flown jet aircraft and started their world war by bombing England back to the stone age. It took America, France, England and some of Russia to sack the Third Reich in only four years.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind most of the Allies were aware of Hitlers ambitions. Towards that end, they were gearing up. I've also read where Hitler was worried their pre-war efforts would exceed the Fatherlands', so he decided to strike first.

Chamberlain came back waving that pathetic, useless piece of paper, proclaiming 'Peace in our time", knowing full well he was holding a sheet of Charmin. But he knew it was giving Britain more time to build up their forces.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> Then again, RPD, we returned the favor saving the French from the Germans. In fact, we saved Italy despite their defection led by Il Duce.
> 
> I heard a statement on talk radio I had never considered. The USA freed most of Europe with the blood of their own patriots. We never kept any of the land we conquered, and even returned much of it back to Germany. Come to think of it, I do not remember any of the Hirohito's inner circle tossed into chains and paraded around Tokyo.
> 
> If I'm proud of anything as an American it's how the WWII generation unselfishly saved the free world and re-habilitated the peoples of previous foreign enemies.


The French are this country's oldest ally.
If the French army had not been bled white in WWI by truly incompetent leadership, they might have done a little better in WWII.

Montgomery's leadership of the British was so hesitant that they were not much help, either.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

If the world had the internet back then, things would have been different. People would have been warned..
But, History is exactly that, History. And apparently we havent learned.
But here is what I started watching last night about WW2 and the years before.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0789TRXSY


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

MisterMills357 said:


> If America had not gone in, Europe would still be Nazi, there were plenty of collaborators in France and Sweden, etc. France had a strong fascist movement, which joined up with the Nazis, after they invaded. And it had an incompetent leadership, which made it easy to defeat.
> 
> Think about Marshall Petain, their greatest military man, who escaped execution because he was senile, and 85 years old. America and France have themselves to blame in ways, because the war was easy to predict.
> 
> ...


France was in possession of Alsace-Loraine at the time WWII broke out. One of her spoils being on the winning side in WWI


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> Patton: "I'd rather have a German division in front of me, than a French one behind me".
> 
> Poland got screwed by the Germans/French then later by the Russians.


You need to remember that britian and the USofA sold them out to the Russians at Yalta in Feb 1945


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

The European Exchange Euro banking is identical to what Germany was doing in the early 1900's. Many people became socialist after WW1/2 due to need of the state to help them get back on their feet. Its still a thing in many peoples mind to become socialist. Allot those same people came to USA and set up camp, and its showing within our own government. History is slowly repeating itself, albiet in a different manner.
The Soviets were our allies in WW2, and we created an enemy for some damn reason after that. England just finished paying us off from what they borrowed during WW2 in the mid 2000s..
So many should have could have would have scenarios. But, we as a society dont want to see another WW2, yet we refuse to see what we are doing right now, choosing sides, making enemys crawl into a corner (Iran, NK for example). 
Well, off my soap box. WW2 was an extraordinary event, we dont want that again.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> You need to remember that britian and the USofA sold them out to the Russians at Yalta in Feb 1945


The *second time!!!*, I was thinking 1939.

Rossevelt was as good as a Commie, was a Commie! DemocRAT!!!

The free this and that started with that POS.

My Grandparents, got through the depression, without electricity, on a farm , with 11 children. Think about that?

11 Kids, no WELFARE, no FREE $#!T!!! Nobody hungry!!!

They never needed work, there was plenty on the farm, and never needed food there was plenty on the farm, they grew their own hunted/fished/trapped. Fur prices were real good then, I still have my uncles traps.

FUK FDR and the welfare state!!!


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> While not being born until five years after the war, I'm glad that Hitler's generals finally got their way.
> 
> Could you imagine how it would have turned out if the Luftwaffe would have all flown jet aircraft and started their world war by bombing England back to the stone age. It took America, France, England and some of Russia to sack the Third Reich in only four years.
> 
> ...


I think you mean "did not get their way".
Hitler started the war 80 years ago yesterday!
The ME 262 was a long way from becoming a true operational aircraft, the engines were only good for 15-25 hours before burnout.
The 30MM Rheinmetall Borsig MK-108 cannon had its drawbacks also,
it could not be fired in a high G turn without stopping the guns until they were cleared on the ground.
Don't knock the P-51, it held itself well with the 262, 
it could exceed the 262 in a dive, never to exceed speed of the Mustang was almost a 100 MPH faster!
If a mustang pilot was aware of the presence of the 262 he could easily avoid it as it could out turn the 262 with ease, 
therefor giving the 262 pilot no deflection shot.
The 262 was not there as a dog fighter, but as a bomber interceptor, it tried to evade the bomber's escorts.
For engagement the 262 would climb above the bomber stream and then dive into it, fire at a bomber, then keep on going in it's dive.
The birds duration was only 15 minutes in the air.
Mustangs would roll over and go after them and if done soon enough catch them.
Now as far as its roll as a fighter bomber goes, its usage on ground troops was a disaster for two prime reasons, 
it was ordered to bomb from too high an altitude and too small a bomb load (3) along with too few planes, strategically it only had nuisance value.
The highest amount to enter battle at one time was 25 I believe.
On any given day the bomber stream was escorted by 400-700 fighters with covering an average of 800 bombers,
they kept out of the bombers gun range for good reason.
The Brits were working on a jet fighter before the war started, along with the Whittle centrifugal flow engine.
The plans for that engine were hand carried to the General Electric Company, for building here. 
GE were experts in superchargers and turbo- superchargers on which the Whittle engine was based, 
our F-80 Shooting Star was powered by a model of that engine as was our first jet the Bell P-59 Airacomet flown in 1942. 
Had the war gone into 1946,
the F-80 would have entered combat along with the British Meteor fighter, both were much better in performance and reliability.
Speaking of entering the war, the Convair B-36 bomber was on the drawing board for production to bomb Germany from the US.
One last thing, the Russians lost, killed, over 26 and a half million people in the war!!!

Now all this is from memory, if needed I will dig up the facts.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> You need to remember that britian and the USofA sold them out to the Russians at Yalta in Feb 1945


Back to other point FDR a POS democRAT.

USA had monopoly on power then. They/we could have saved Eastern Europe from Russia, we could have saved China from Mao, We could have nuked the Chi-Coms in Korea.

Well that is another democRAT Truman....


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> I think you mean "did not get their way".
> Hitler started the war 80 years ago yesterday!
> The ME 262 was a long way from becoming a true operational aircraft, the engines were only good for 15-25 hours before burnout.
> The 30MM Rheinmetall Borsig MK-108 cannon had its drawbacks also,
> ...


Good to hear the truth, again SOCOM. My Dad was 8th Air force, he made it home. I wish we had talked more.

I have the pink plane sillouets, with black outlines of planes, friends and foes, my Dad took home. Pink, so when lit up no night vision effect. I still have those.

Enjoy Tomorrow, Enjoy You are free.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that if the French had not come to our aid during the Revolution, we would still be part of Great Britain.
> 
> I have friends in France that to this day remember and honor their American liberators.
> 
> ...


I know, and I still despise the French. I have a very good friend from France that comes over to ride roundup with us every April and October. He is tough as nails and is a very good cowboy. He is welcome at my supper table any time he chooses. I love him as a brother and an individual but he is still a damn frog-eater!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Inor said:


> I know, and I still despise the French. I have a very good friend from France that comes over to ride roundup with us every April and October. He is tough as nails and is a very good cowboy. He is welcome at my supper table any time he chooses. I love him as a brother and an individual but he is still a damn frog-eater!


Inor,

I'll thank those good Frenchy that gave us Freedom. Layfette (?sp?) et al , I won't condem them on their fathers sins.

Those traitors, WWI and WWII, can rot in hell


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Mad Trapper said:


> Inor,
> 
> I'll thank those good Frenchy that gave us Freedom. Layfette (?sp?) et al , I won't condem them on their fathers sins.
> 
> Those traitors, WWI and WWII, can rot in hell


And since! I don't forgive the pricks for not even letting our boys fly over France when we bombed Libya in 1986! France, as a country, is a complete train wreck and I hope they suffer. There are about 7 individual frog-eaters that I hope survive their collective insanity.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> I think you mean "did not get their way".
> Hitler started the war 80 years ago yesterday!
> The ME 262 was a long way from becoming a true operational aircraft, the engines were only good for 15-25 hours before burnout.
> The 30MM Rheinmetall Borsig MK-108 cannon had its drawbacks also,
> ...


I think Goering was once asked, after his capture, when he knew it was over. He replied, "When I looked up and saw those P-51's escorting your bombers, I knew the jig was up". He knew he could no longer hope to control the skies, and you and I know, if you don't control the air, you can't control the ground.

My Dad, who is a pilot, always wanted to fly a P-51. They are awesome aircraft. They have one out at the airshow at Ellington every year. Very cool.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Inor said:


> I know, and I still despise the French. I have a very good friend from France that comes over to ride roundup with us every April and October. He is tough as nails and is a very good cowboy. He is welcome at my supper table any time he chooses. I love him as a brother and an individual but he is still a damn frog-eater!


They are so overwhelmed with Muslims. And won't deal with the problems.

Frenchy that are still Christian, will be crying for help soon. I am glad we have an ocean between us, Britain too.

I am sorry for the Irish, and Scottish. In Europe, Russia won't take their shit, nor the Poles.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> The *second time!!!*, I was thinking 1939.
> 
> Rossevelt was as good as a Commie, was a Commie! DemocRAT!!!
> 
> ...


Both Sets of my Grandparents had similar experiences. And both bought their farms after 1928.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Prepared One said:


> I think Goering was once asked, after his capture, when he knew it was over. He replied, "When I looked up and saw those P-51's escorting your bombers, I knew the jig was up". He knew he could no longer hope to control the skies, and you and I know, if you don't control the air, you can't control the ground.
> 
> My Dad, who is a pilot, always wanted to fly a P-51. They are awesome aircraft. They have one out at the airshow at Ellington every year. Very cool.


The quote is correct, it was told by fatso to US interrogators in the Spandau prison.
There was a joke told by German infantrymen in reference to aircraft overhead, it goes,
if the plane is camouflaged it is British, if it is shiny metal it is American, if it is not there it is German.

Yeah, I would have loved to have flown one, 
the closest I ever came was a North American AT-6, same company at least, last trainer before flying the P-51. 
Do have some time in a B-25 also.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I would argue that WWII start right after WWI ended and the world put harsh requirements on Germany to punish them for the War... this lead to Hitler and the Nazi's

it is good to understand history so as not to repeat it...


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I've always wanted to learn to fly. If you get the chance check out the EAA at Oshgosh, Wi. A lot of what are called old warbirds are there, been twice, but really enjoy the show they put on.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I still have my Fathers "Bomber" jacket. I used it for years when I got old enough to ride motorcycles on the roads. Thick leather and sheepskin inside. It was cold at 40,000 feet.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I would argue that WWII start right after WWI ended and the world put harsh requirements on Germany to punish them for the War... this lead to Hitler and the Nazi's
> 
> it is good to understand history so as not to repeat it...


Many historians have made this same argument, and correctly I might add. Just one of the considerations behind our decision to help rebuild Germany and Japan after the war ended, that we not repeat the mistakes made with the Treaty of Versailles.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I would argue that WWII start right after WWI ended and the world put harsh requirements on Germany to punish them for the War... this lead to Hitler and the Nazi's
> 
> it is good to understand history so as not to repeat it...


It started with German shitheads, invadinig Poland. Russia being an accomplist, Frenchys being too tiimid to respond, Britain across a sea.

USA divided as to the threats, of Germany, and Japan.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> It started with German shitheads, invadinig Poland. Russia being an accomplist, Frenchys being too tiimid to respond, Britain across a sea.
> 
> USA divided as to the threats, of Germany, and Japan.


you do not understand that it was a massive chain of dominoes that brought hitler to power.

here is an online history for kids.. very easy to read and understand.. https://www.ducksters.com/history/world_war_ii/causes_of_ww2.php

"In many ways, World War 2 was a direct result of the turmoil left behind by World War 1. Below are some of the main causes of World War 2.

Treaty of Versailles

The Treaty of Versailles ended World War I between Germany and the Allied Powers. Because Germany had lost the war, the treaty was very harsh against Germany. Germany was forced to "accept the responsibility" of the war damages suffered by the Allies. The treaty required that Germany pay a huge sum of money called reparations. "

knowledge and truth are important


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> you do not understand that it was a massive chain of dominoes that brought hitler to power.
> 
> here is an online history for kids.. very easy to read and understand.. https://www.ducksters.com/history/world_war_ii/causes_of_ww2.php
> 
> ...


I understand history.

My Father was battle of Britain. He survivied bombing the Krats daytime. Then when we had Fhrency again, he bombed them more. I have a picture of him , stting on a tank, in Fhrency, 1944.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> you do not understand that it was a massive chain of dominoes that brought hitler to power.
> 
> here is an online history for kids.. very easy to read and understand.. https://www.ducksters.com/history/world_war_ii/causes_of_ww2.php
> 
> ...


I understand history.

My Father was battle of Britain. He survivied bombing the Krats daytime. Then when we had Fhrency again, he bombed them more. I have a picture of him , stting on a tank, in Fhrency, 1944.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Global Events over the past 80 years have made me believe that US Isolationism may be the best Strategy for the next 80 years.

The massive amounts of money, resources and lives that the US has spent since WW2 would have been much better spent on domestic business.

Screw the UN, Screw the commies that we have supported around the world and damn every politician that has sent Patriots to their death in order to save them and not US.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Global Events over the past 80 years have made me believe that US Isolationism may be the best Strategy for the next 80 years.
> 
> The massive amounts of money, resources and lives that the US has spent since WW2 would have been much better spent on domestic business.
> 
> Screw the UN, Screw the commies that we have supported around the world and damn every politician that has sent Patriots to their death in order to save them and not US.


Preach it, my man!!!!!
We DO NOT NEED to be the world's policemen.

The biggest bunch of BS hooey is the American military are "fighting for our freedom." :vs_mad:
B flippin' S. The last time that happened was WWII. 
I damn sure wasn't fighting "for our freedom" in Vietnam. The sergeants who trained me damn sure weren't fighting for America's freedom in Korea.
The guys on this board who served in Afghanistan and Iraq weren't fighting for MY FREEDOM. OR YOURS. OR ANY OTHER AMERICAN.
It is nothing more than A BIG LIE.

And I too believe in what the John Birch Society has been saying for well over 50 years - "Get the US out of the UN, and get the UN out of the US".

Dang, Slippy my friend, you got me all wound up!!! :tango_face_grin:


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Preach it, my man!!!!!
> We DO NOT NEED to be the world's policemen.
> 
> The biggest bunch of BS hooey is the American military are "fighting for our freedom." :vs_mad:
> ...


Indeed!!! What the hell do I care if some sock-head knows a whit about John Locke?


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that if the French had not come to our aid during the Revolution, we would still be part of Great Britain.
> 
> I have friends in France that to this day remember and honor their American liberators.
> 
> ...


I was working in Italy about 20 years ago, and the Scientist I was working with took me to visit his mother, She was a young lady during WWII. And when she found out that my Dad had fought in Italy, she could not thank me/him enough for what he did. He spent 3 years fighting from southern to northern Italy.


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The French are this country's oldest ally.
> If the French army had not been bled white in WWI by truly incompetent leadership, they might have done a little better in WWII.
> 
> Montgomery's leadership of the British was so hesitant that they were not much help, either.


Exactly this. The French army in WWI was a definite force, but they were hindered by incompetent leadership. Dan Carlin has a great series of Podcasts about World War I that speaks to this and many other amazing facts about the Great War.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> France was in possession of Alsace-Loraine at the time WWII broke out. One of her spoils being on the winning side in WWI


My fault, but it is understandable, of me, since Germany was in possession of all of France by 1940.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

MisterMills357 said:


> My fault, but it is understandable, of me, since Germany was in possession of all of France by 1940.


All of this history was five years before my time, and my parents usually watered down all of the good stories. Fortunately when I got to high school I had a teacher complete with newspaper files and memory of those times.

I actually learned to respect my father based on this. I learned that my Dad was born during WWI, grew up during The Depression and got married at the very start of WWII.

He had nothing, but found a good job, didn't object to his plight, and finally became the Executive Vice-President of that same company. I think if that would have been me, I would have verbally complained at the volume and hysterics of your average baby-boomer...


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> All of this history was five years before my time, and my parents usually watered down all of the good stories. Fortunately when I got to high school I had a teacher complete with newspaper files and memory of those times.
> 
> I actually learned to respect my father based on this. I learned that my Dad was born during WWI, grew up during The Depression and got married at the very start of WWII.
> 
> He had nothing, but found a good job, didn't object to his plight, and finally became the Executive Vice-President of that same company. I think if that would have been me, I would have verbally complained at the volume and hysterics of your average baby-boomer...


America is not made of the material that was in your father, and it is tottering on a precipice. We are at another great moment in history, and I don't know which way America will go. But I do know, that most of it does not have the guts to fight. I wonder if it will survive, or if it will roll over and play dead?


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

MisterMills357 said:


> I wonder if it will survive, or if it will roll over and play dead?


As of now it is my turn to leave the stage. I did my best to teach guys how to polish steel and had some of them over to my home to learn the craft--even one female.

Now in a few months I will turn 70 years of age--despite having all my hair and looking like I was in my early fifties. Even I'm amazed. However, sooner or later all the knowledge that you have accumulated by the obvious blood, sweat and tears will show up in a dusty old history book, that (*sigh*) has already been taken out of the kids' hands because our knowledge is now "obsolete."

I am reminded of this when watching an old 'Twilight Zone' episode entitled, "The Obsolete Man," starring Burgess Meredith--who you might know better from his portrayal as 'The Penguin" in the old Batman TV series. I won't spoil the ending for you kids.

In fact, I personally am obsolete since I am a knife sharpener. Why should I be paid to fix your knife when just about everyone--pro or newbie--can buy knives that come with five or more snap-in replacement blades. I am told that polishing a blade manually might produce the sharpest knife ever seen. But fewer and fewer folks even care. My guess is that one day professional chefs will purchase disposable edges for their knives, and after a short adjustment period, be carving dinners for patrons using only cheap replacement parts.

Before you laugh, consider my old 5.0 Mustang--beautiful thing in black with a high polish looking like it just rolled out of a 'Mad Max' movie. I took it in for a tune up one day and expected a mechanic to do most of the work using only his knowledge and experience.

The laugh was on me! He plugged my Mustang into a computer, and numeric error messages told him what to fix...

https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Edge...cement+blades&qid=1567546468&s=gateway&sr=8-1


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