# Bridges - Get home/out bottlenecks



## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

In my journeys in being station in San Diego, OK City, Atsugi, Japan, Memphis, Norfolk, and now Jacksonville I discovered they all have one survival hurdle in common... bridges.
In Sandy Eggo I could have taken a long way home from Coronado just by taking a different route... along with 20 thousand others.
In Atsugi, there were a few ditches that could have been easily managed on foot.
Memphis had a mix of hilly woodlands and boggy creeks... and you might be trespassing someone's corn liquor establishment.
The Tidewater area around Norfolk is laced with canals and dense population.
Jacksonville, where I work downtown, I cross, (or drive under) 6 bridges on my 13 mile ride home. Four of those bridges are in Jacksonville's most violent neighborhoods.

We all learned, in 2004, that a hurricane can lift interstate bridges off of its pillars, (Escambia Bay/I-10).

I was thinking I would most likely be home before a natural disaster got bad enough to bust a bridge.
However, suppose a bunch of ganstas wanted to shutdown access "through" their turf? Last year Chi-Raq had gang violence reach a level that this stop sign reflected as a reality:








Four bridges controlled by gangs just because a storm is approaching is a different matter.

In my mental prep, I believe it is prudent to be ready for the natural struggle to get home and the fight to survive to get there.

Have you thought about your trip home from work?
What concerns have you discovered ?


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## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

I work about 20 miles from home (through the Norfolk area). Major issues i have found is while i may have my Get Home Bag, i will not have a firearm as they are prohibited on base. Once i plan to bug out (north) unless i want to go a couple hundred miles around... i must transit either a bridge or one of 2 tunnels to get to my BOL and both are a couple miles long.

Bridges and Tunnels are fatal funnels... death traps ... but i'm hoping if the event it ever came where we had to cross and a low level gang was on the bridge/tunnel blocking it my .308 could out range them...


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

San Diego [and Norfolk?] got rid of the ferries many years ago. When sailor's were not allowed to wear civvies on base. there were locker clubs where one "could" have kept a firearm BUT it was safer to carry a "blade" back then too. 
You're right about bridges and tunnels being fatal funnels. I do not think bad guys will openly guard the bridge. They will obstruct the passage or present a gauntlet. In JAX, their were a few teens throwing rocks from an overpass... during rush hour... they're not associated with any gangs but it showed how simply and inexpensively a gang could control their world.

On a side note - Thank you for your service.


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## Batty (Jul 31, 2014)

One winter, Seattle rcvd a bunch of snow unexpectedly and it pretty much shut down all the bridges just before rush hour. My daughter (3 at the time) was in school on one side of the city and myself (and all my emergency contacts!) were on the other. It took me almost 6 hours to get home to her. Needless to say, she went to work with me for the next week or so and we moved out of the city shortly after that.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Also keep in mind that birdges with expansion joints in the middle there is a wind speed they will shut the bridge down.


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

What's a bridge?

Seriously though, bridges, rivers, fords, and other crossings have been a natural choke point for millennia. More than one battle was lost because the enemy was unable to force a good crossing. Highwaymen have also used crossings for centuries. If there are any on your route, you should definitely be read for a threat to try and take advantage of the situation.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Depending on what's in the water, it might be a good idea to pass your urine before entering the water.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I remember hearing that the bridges and tunnels out of NYC were all closed within 30 minutes of the first attack on 9/11. You might not have as much time as you think.

How are you going to approach a bridge? If you just drive up and it's blocked, you might not be able to get away at all. You could find yourself rounded up and sent to a FEMA camp or worse, just fired upon by bandits or whatever.

You could stop 1/2 mile away and recon it on foot, but that's a time consuming thing to do and not without risks.

Bridges are a real problem, that's for sure.


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## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> I remember hearing that the bridges and tunnels out of NYC were all closed within 30 minutes of the first attack on 9/11. You might not have as much time as you think.
> 
> How are you going to approach a bridge? If you just drive up and it's blocked, you might not be able to get away at all. You could find yourself rounded up and sent to a FEMA camp or worse, just fired upon by bandits or whatever.
> 
> ...


We have 3 Bridge/Tunnel combinations over large bodies of water around here...... you cant see the tunnel from the land (not in the way you would need to assess it) you pretty much have to go 1-4 mile out onto the bridge to see the tunnel opening, one even has multiple bridge/tunnels.


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

I'd say the general rule would be heavy recon from a safe and secluded spot and then only attempting to pass through at night. 

Some recon now might not be a bad idea if at all possible. You'd potentially find a safe route that would help you avoid the tunnel/bridge all together.

The more urban, the trickier the situation. I feel your pain living in a place like Jacksonville. I remember driving through there in the spring. That would be a prepping nightmare IMO.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

pharmer14 said:


> . ...
> 
> The more urban, the trickier the situation. I feel your pain living in a place like Jacksonville. I remember driving through there in the spring. That would be a prepping nightmare IMO.


Agreed, although Recon in north west JAX would be a bad thing. I would rather avoid that and risk going west and take the county highways around the metro.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

In New Orleans we have a lot of bridges! If you don't leave early enough when a hurrcaine is coming your stuck like Chuck!


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

CWOLDOJAX said:


> Agreed, although Recon in north west JAX would be a bad thing. I would rather avoid that and risk going west and take the county highways around the metro.


Probably the best idea yet...


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Working In Multiple Different City Areas I Always Find Alternate Routes In And Out For Simple Road Clousures Etc. No Matter What YouPlan For It Will Always Be A Variation In The Middle.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

alterego said:


> Working In Multiple Different City Areas I Always Find Alternate Routes In And Out For Simple Road Clousures Etc. No Matter What YouPlan For It Will Always Be A Variation In The Middle.


Good point.
I was realizing today that gps (iPhone) may not be working and a paper map will be needed.
Gotta git one of them.


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## Dalarast (May 16, 2014)

PrepperLite said:


> We have 3 Bridge/Tunnel combinations over large bodies of water around here...... you cant see the tunnel from the land (not in the way you would need to assess it) you pretty much have to go 1-4 mile out onto the bridge to see the tunnel opening, one even has multiple bridge/tunnels.


I replayed this scenario multiple times in my head if I was stuck on either the Norfolk or Hampton side with out a vehicle. If it was early on and I was trying to get home to the beach I would attempt to utilize a boat (row row row your boat) prior to hiking around or utilize the rail bridge west of the M&M bridge/tunnel. If hell was already let loose and I would would hike the distance around and the same thing with a vehicle...

I always tell my wife we live on "an Island" and escape through the tunnels as the evacuation plans dictate or a joke... better to head West through Suffolk or South into Carolina for us.

And as pointed out above.. bridges and natural crossings are obvious choke holds and ambush sites. Unless you are able to properly recon for a set amount of time they should be marked off an possible route if you have to bug out...


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

unique challenge, OK not so unique challenge

so what are the options?? 

bridges are clearly no good... so how do you get around them?? what are they built to go over?? and how do you get around them, it is a problem but there is always a solution

oh any firearm clubs near by where you can store a handgun?? and get access if shtf?? or a firearm dealer, or someone local?? again a problem that has a solution...


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I think that everyone should consider the possibility that if the SHTF you might at some point or another be forced to abandon your vehicle and proceed on foot. If that should be the case you may be forced to either cross on a railroad bridge, try to work your way over/around stopped vehicles, or improvise a raft or floatation device to get across a river. If that looks like it might be likely in your area, be aware your travel time is going to become a whole lot longer, by days, weeks, or even months, then if you were driving. Just something else to worry about.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

If SHTF occurred while I am downtown at work I imagine I would be unable to use my vehicle.
Looking at the road map was somewhat daunting because I would have to walk nearly 3miles south, then 10 miles west from downtown to avoid the most murderous part of JAX before I could head north.

I have discovered, by looking at the satellite views that the railroad might be a better choice because of the wooded cover along the tracks may be a better/safer journey and save a lot of walking. There may be a few bad guys along the way, but there will be fewer mobs too.


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## astrowolf67 (Dec 23, 2012)

Bridges are one of my biggest concerns if a natural SHTF occurs while I'm working. I live right on the New Madrid fault, and, my job has me driving all day. At any point on my routes, I can park the truck, and, walk home in a days time, unless the bridges are gone. If the bridges go, I could possibly have to figure a way to cross the Ohio, Tennessee, Cumberland, or possibly any combination of the three. This doesn't count our many creeks, that would be considered rivers in other geographical locations, lol. I've not even begun to consider what could happen if I am south of one of the many dams in my area, and, they collapse!

David


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Even up here the waters can be deep and wide, on my to buy list is a good vehicle winch, not harbour freight stuff. Just paid $250.00 last winter to get my daughter's car from the ditch. Wouldn't take only a few pull outs to pay for a winch. Had a warn 8k lbs winch in the 80's on my 4x4, good winch, but, piece of junk to what they make today. I think a good length of cable plus the winch cable will get you most places. Granted, it takes a looong time to winch, esp. if you use a snatch block. I say up here, cause around here, folks have walked across the Mississippi and barely got our pants wet. I think it's Lake Itaska. Mississippi is the only main waterway to worry about , still over a hundred yards at Winona.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

astrowolf67 said:


> Bridges are one of my biggest concerns if a natural SHTF occurs while I'm working. I live right on the New Madrid fault, and, my job has me driving all day. At any point on my routes, I can park the truck, and, walk home in a days time, unless the bridges are gone. If the bridges go, I could possibly have to figure a way to cross the Ohio, Tennessee, Cumberland, or possibly any combination of the three. This doesn't count our many creeks, that would be considered rivers in other geographical locations, lol. I've not even begun to consider what could happen if I am south of one of the many dams in my area, and, they collapse!
> 
> David


Wow. I almost forgot about the Midwestern fault line. 
The creeks , (or cricks as I used to call them)
, may be muddy or flowing deep with debris.
... And winter adds a whole different prep for that.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I drive the back roads a lot. I can usually find an alternative when confronted with flooding but I have to cross somewhere. My office locations are 50 and 70 miles respectively from home. If forced to go on foot, it could take a number of days. I keep weather appropriate gear in the trunk for just in case, especially winter. When Johnstown flooded in 1977 many communities where devastated or isolated for days.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

I can only expect that any major emergency for the roads to grind to a halt unless you have a bulldozer you probably aren't going anywhere.
in my new location my three major concerns are earthquake a leading to a nuclear accident some type of killer exchange Dutchess from Russia or China. 1 and finally the end. I know these are very plausible very unlikelythere's really nothing else it's really susceptible in these parts at this time of the year

there are a lot of bridges but none of them are really essential I could only guess that would be a very very rare occurrence for anything neededcoordinated terrorist activitiesnot very likely


on the other hand construction and car accidents are somewhat regular occurrence which if met with a medical emergency could be a life-threatening situation


Toronto is a pretty secure area with not many viable threats


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## mcangus (Jun 3, 2014)

Batty said:


> One winter, Seattle rcvd a bunch of snow unexpectedly and it pretty much shut down all the bridges just before rush hour. My daughter (3 at the time) was in school on one side of the city and myself (and all my emergency contacts!) were on the other. It took me almost 6 hours to get home to her. Needless to say, she went to work with me for the next week or so and we moved out of the city shortly after that.


Yeah I remember that day. It was crazy! It wasn't just bad traffic and slow driving, it was literally not moving. People stuck on freeways were hungry and thirsty. Although this was just a one day event(actually the worse part was really only like 8hrs, it was an amazing lesson for me). Government can't handle unusual events and people react like a freaking herd.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Camel923 said:


> I drive the back roads a lot. I can usually find an alternative when confronted with flooding but I have to cross somewhere. My office locations are 50 and 70 miles respectively from home. If forced to go on foot, it could take a number of days. I keep weather appropriate gear in the trunk for just in case, especially winter. When Johnstown flooded in 1977 many communities where devastated or isolated for days.


Could easily have been filmed in West Des Moines in the 70's too.

I learned how to fill and pile sand bags in my early teens. 
The flood of '93 was worse than our many floods in the 70s. I was stationed in Oklahoma by then.


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

I work near the edge of the ATL perimeter bypass and live in the suburbs its a 65 mile drive from home to work and back.
I can access the interstate and state highways and be at work or home in 50 minutes one way if traffic is good.

The interstate system is the natural choke point for me in a SHTF scenario. Last years ice storm in the ATL area made national news for days and made the Mayor and Gov look like dummys. Last year everyone bailed at the same time and clogged the roads, then once the semi trailers started to jack-knife on the ice they blocked three or four lanes to travel. All this volume and accident cause people to abandon their cars, compounding the problems.

This was a real life lesson for my family and those in my group. I have been preaching to stay off the interstates in a SHTF situation, they would become death traps. It all played out before our eyes on television. Fortunately a few days later and some warmer weather and the situation resolved itself with out loss of life but the lesson had been taught.

If SHTF I have a very dependable alternate route back home from work that avoids the choke points. The hazards are the start of the route goes through a unsavory area and the natives may be a issue after that there is one other area that is steeply hilled on both side with flowing water at the bottom. Once past those two points its free sailing either in car or on foot. I am fortunate enough to work for a company that does not have a nor guns in the parking lot policy. So I keep a weapon in my vehicle.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Evacuations by water and BOL on water may be the best alternative for many.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> unique challenge, OK not so unique challenge
> 
> so what are the options??
> 
> ...


The obvious solution is in 2 parts: 1 Move to a house where you don't have to cross anything to get to work, and 2 Find _someplace_ to store guns and ammo.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

CWOLDOJAX said:


> Good point.
> I was realizing today that gps (iPhone) may not be working and a paper map will be needed.
> Gotta git one of them.


USGS topo maps are downloadable for free from their web site, then you can print whichever ones you need. Better have plenty of hard drive space, though, cuz they do take up a lot of space, especially the new HD ones.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

thepeartree said:


> USGS topo maps are downloadable for free from their web site, then you can print whichever ones you need. Better have plenty of hard drive space, though, cuz they do take up a lot of space, especially the new HD ones.


Awesome! Free is one of my favorite prices. Thanks.
(Seems like hikers would like that too.)


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## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

all routes whether to your BOL or your "get home" route should be checked NOW for bottlenecks and trouble spots, not left until the emergency happens, things can change in the intervening period and your route could be blocked right at the time you most need it. we had a couple of roads that subsided and fell off into the river(the river had undermined the road), sure they got repaired but they were unusable for months,and alternative routes were used, unless we travel that way we wouldn't have known they were unusable if we needed to use them in an emergency.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Big Paul,
There is a road that runs along side the train tracks most of the way.
I have not taken that road home yet.
I have noted that there are 3 industrial parks, 2 churches (with approx. 400 members), and an Amtrak train station along my original "no bridges" route home on foot. I will want to avoid those places because they will be people magnets in SHTF. On my way home I don't want to be seen.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Perhaps you've heard of these mechanical wonders they call buy-cycles...? I heard rumor that you can get ones with Nubby tires to allow use over many kinds of terrain! Think you it could speed your way home? Or do you anticipate mobs?


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

thepeartree said:


> Perhaps you've heard of these mechanical wonders they call buy-cycles...? I heard rumor that you can get ones with Nubby tires to allow use over many kinds of terrain! Think you it could speed your way home? Or do you anticipate mobs?


Yes. I have to go through or around to most dangerous neighborhood in the metro area.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

CWOLDOJAX said:


> Yes. I have to go through or around to most dangerous neighborhood in the metro area.


Sorry to hear that. The only suggestion is a dirt bike. That would make you a lot faster than any mob, nearly as agile, and trying to stop you would be difficult except with firearms. Not that it would be a surprise, considering where you are, but you would be trading speed for stealth. If you can get through the slums fast enough, organized opposition may be hard to set up in time. That's one of the rare times when chaos can be an advantage- if the phones go down, then bad guys don't get to use them a against you.


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## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

any motorbike can be heard a long way off giving the bad guys time to organise, if your motorbike(also your bicycle) has spoken wheels it is an easy job for someone to poke a branch through the spokes and you will go head first over the handlebars, and steal your stuff. just be aware of this when planning your route. any possible "ambush" sites should be investigated in advance.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

The challenge to avoid bridges forces me to be stealthy on foot. To follow the railroad adds about 8 miles to the way home.
Speed or stealth? I have to think about that bicycle idea.
Not sure if I could stash one or "borrow" one.


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## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

CWOLDOJAX said:


> The challenge to avoid bridges forces me to be stealthy on foot. To follow the railroad adds about 8 miles to the way home.
> Speed or stealth? I have to think about that bicycle idea.
> Not sure if I could stash one or "borrow" one.


both wife and I can cycle at least 2 or 3 times as far and as fast as we can walk, also panniers and a handlebar bag will allow us to carry more supplies.i would go more for the stealth approach. when we lived in Somerset(the next county) we used to regularly pick up abandoned bicycles, most of them only needed the tyres pumping up.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

As a side note on bicycles, you can buy nice quiet electric motors for them. When the charge runs out you can still pedal. There's also gas engines that will get you up over 30 mph. But those are loud as a weed eater.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

The only problem that I have with the bicycle idea is how likely are you to take a bicycle with you everywhere you go in case you need it to get home? You will already have a bag with a few days supplies, including food and hopefully a firearm, which will take up some space in your vehicle, then throw a bicycle on top of everything else? Not saying it's a bad idea if you can do it, but if you are away from home shopping and buying a load of stuff, a bicycle might just take up too much room. 

Perhaps if you can't take a bicycle with you everywhere you go, you might at least have one where you where you routinely go, work for example. If you are able to it might be a good idea to leave a bicycle at work so that it will always be there if you need it. Even if you don't ride it, a bicycle will make it easy to carry allot of weight. The Swiss Army and for that matter the North Vietnamese loaded their equipment on their bicycles and pushed them. They could carry more weight and it saved allot of wear and tear on soldiers.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Notsoyoung said:


> The only problem that I have with the bicycle idea is how likely are you to take a bicycle with you everywhere you go in case you need it to get home? You will already have a bag with a few days supplies, including food and hopefully a firearm, which will take up some space in your vehicle, then throw a bicycle on top of everything else? Not saying it's a bad idea if you can do it, but if you are away from home shopping and buying a load of stuff, a bicycle might just take up too much room.
> 
> Perhaps if you can't take a bicycle with you everywhere you go, you might at least have one where you where you routinely go, work for example. If you are able to it might be a good idea to leave a bicycle at work so that it will always be there if you need it. Even if you don't ride it, a bicycle will make it easy to carry allot of weight. The Swiss Army and for that matter the North Vietnamese loaded their equipment on their bicycles and pushed them. They could carry more weight and it saved allot of wear and tear on soldiers.


"...you might at least have one where you where you routinely go, work for example..."

This is is why I said I was thinking about it seeing someone on a bicycle downtown, (where I work), is not unusual.

It would have to be a bike I could use during the week and leave it downtown. 
I may ask the parking garage manager if I can leave a bike overnight.


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