# Quillion,Bolster,Guard. Survival Knife.



## M118LR

A knife is a tool, every tool has a task to which it is best suited. Carving Knives,Paring Knives,Boning Knives,Fillet Knives,Chiefs Knives, BUSHCRAFT KNIVES,Fighting Knives, etc but what makes a Survival Knife different? 

Most knives are used as cutting tools. Bayonets,Fighting Knives, and Survival Knives will also have the task of stabbing. So while any knife that you have during a Survival Emergency could be considered a Survival Knife, for the sake of this discussion let's just consider those with Quillion's, Bolster's, or Guards. Before to many hackles get raised: In a Survival Situation without Wood, Bush-craft style knives can still be utilized, they just aren't optimized. 

Quillions,Bolsters,and Guards are designed to protect your hand from slipping onto the blade edge (s) while stabbing. A True Survival Knife may end up being your only offensive or defensive weapon. (ie Floating around on open water, ice, above timberline) The Ontario 499 Air Force Survival Knife (AFSK) is probably the most commonly known and most berated tool on Survivalist Forums. Rat Tanged, with a Leather wrapped grip that deteriorates easily, and made from Carbon Steel that holds an edge but rusts. On the other hand is the Navy Mk3 mod 0 Stainless (dive/fighting) knife that is almost impervious to environmental conditions, but you will spend most of your free time sharpening or re-sharpening the cutting edge to keep it usable.

I am wondering what Type of Quillion/Guard/Bolstered Survival Knives are used or would be recommended by the members here. 
Thanks for your time and effort, along with your responses.


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## M118LR

Guess I shouldn't solicit insights from survivors on a theoretical sight. Sorry I miscalculated, perhaps it is better if I remain silent. Thank Ya'll for welcoming me aboard.


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## Atma

My survival knife came from Harbor freight. It was $9. It wasn't full tang so I took it apart and used JB weld on every spot I could. I then took the cap off and stuffed it full of my own survival equipment. I was able to fit in:

Magnesium fire starter with separate rod
Homemade waterproof matches
Needle with thread wrapped around it
Fishing line with hooks, swivels and weights
Cotton soaked in Vaseline inserted into straws
Bandaids
First aid creame
10 baby aspirin 
Mini bic
Can opener
Tweezers
Flashlight 

That's all I remember might be more. I know you get what you pay for but I like it, I've made it stronger than it was. And in a pinch, I hope it will serve my needs.


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## SOCOM42

You are asking a question that has as many answers as readers.
Myself, i made my own quite a while back.
It is a bowie style with a 7 inch blade, 1/4" thick, scales are micarta with ss screws and nuts,
it has a full quillion made from copper buss bar, 5/8" wide 1/4" thick and extends 1-1/4" past the grip top and bottom.
The blade has a full tang one inch wide, blade is made from d-2 hardened to 58 Rockwell "C" scale.
D-2 does not rust as quickly like regular carbon steel.
It is a bitch to sharpen, use a diamond hone on it.
There are many out there that make good utility knives from K-Bar to Randall.
I have many, all to fit a typical roll.
I like the Randall #1 fighter i have, but worth too much to diddle with.
K-bar is a good field knife.
There were good US made cold steel knives at a reasonable price at one time.
Each GHB in the jeeps has a Cold Steel SRK in it.
I don't worry about a fighting knife anymore, too damned old for it, use gun instead.


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## M118LR

Thank you Atma, but I believe the contents of any pocket Survival Tin may hold a bit more. Ingenuity is admirable, but will your $9 Harbor freight Extreme Find, fend off a Polar Bear on the Ice Sheet or Down a Sea Mammal to bring you the bounty of (Substance) food and blubber (Fuel) to create life giving fire? 

I will grant Ya'll the economical benefits derived from theoretical (Educational) Study. I only strive to pass along the Priceless considerations of Real Experience.
Borrowed into a snow bank with the dim light & warmth provided by your kudlik as a Polar Bear Smelling the Seal Blubber from your Life Saving Kill Smeared upon you Crashes down from above, Just how much would you spend on the only Survival Item (Knife) that you shall have to defeat in "Tooth & Nail" Hand to Hand Combat that Little Sissy White Bear?


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## M118LR

SOCOM42 said:


> You are asking a question that has as many answers as readers.
> Myself, i made my own quite a while back.
> It is a bowie style with a 7 inch blade, 1/4" thick, scales are micarta with ss screws and nuts,
> it has a full quillion made from copper buss bar, 5/8" wide 1/4" thick and extends 1-1/4" past the grip top and bottom.
> The blade has a full tang one inch wide, blade is made from d-2 hardened to 58 rockwell "c" scale.
> D-2 does not rust like regular carbon steel.
> It is a bitch to sharpen, use a diamond hone on it.
> There are many out there that make good utility knives from k-bar to randal.
> I have many all to fit a typical roll.
> I like the randall #1 fighter i have, but worth too much to diddle with.
> K-bar is a good field knife.
> There were good us made cold steel knives at a reasonable price at one time.
> Each ghb in the jeeps has a cold steel SRK in it.
> I don't worry about a fighting knife anymore, too damned old for it, use gun instead.


I am asking only what the members here use or recommend SOCOM42. If they give me an insight as to why I shall be even more grateful. I shall admit that Practical Tactical Experience weighs more than Theory in my BOB. This isn't a challenge, it is a search for knowledge. It's not about what I've survived, it's about how to make it easier to survive if I need to do it again. Now could you narrow it down to what and why you chose what you chose?


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## M118LR

I must apologize to all the good members of this forum, (Especially SOCOM42) I bring an extreme insight. Tomorrow Morning as you race to pack a lunch, brew your mourning Joe, and struggle to fight traffic to make it to work ON-TIME. What you have left the house with + 5 lbs equals the real World Experience of post number #5 for me in the past. Will you ever be in such a situation? I should hope not! Can you be prepared for situations such as these that I have experienced and Survived? It depends on your level of preparedness. At the time this was my job, as you head to work tomorrow it is highly unlikely that this shall happen to you. But are you prepared if it should?


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## Atma

M118LR said:


> Thank you Atma, but I believe the contents of any pocket Survival Tin may hold a bit more. Ingenuity is admirable, but will your $9 Harbor freight Extreme Find, fend off a Polar Bear on the Ice Sheet or Down a Sea Mammal to bring you the bounty of (Substance) food and blubber (Fuel) to create life giving fire?
> 
> I will grant Ya'll the economical benefits derived from theoretical (Educational) Study. I only strive to pass along the Priceless considerations of Real Experience.
> Borrowed into a snow bank with the dim light & warmth provided by your kudlik as a Polar Bear Smelling the Seal Blubber from your Life Saving Kill Smeared upon you Crashes down from above, Just how much would you spend on the only Survival Item (Knife) that you shall have to defeat in "Tooth & Nail" Hand to Hand Combat that Little Sissy White Bear?


Ya I have an altoids tin as well plus a larger tin. Most of that is in my survival bag. I don't have alot of spare funds so I spend where I can when I can. I'm not sure how it will work taking out a polar bear... But I should be able to make a fire with it. My survival bag has the other necessities need for basic survival so I can hopefully construct a basic camp if I'm stranded out in the middle of nowhere. I only mentioned the survival knife because that's what I'm assuming you were asking about.


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## SOCOM42

M118LR said:


> I am asking only what the members here use or recommend SOCOM42. If they give me an insight as to why I shall be even more grateful. I shall admit that Practical Tactical Experience weighs more than Theory in my BOB. This isn't a challenge, it is a search for knowledge. It's not about what I've survived, it's about how to make it easier to survive if I need to do it again. Now could you narrow it down to what and why you chose what you chose?


Cold Steel SRK, general utility knife, good for field use, uses a kraton rubber grip and is good for butchering, It is a little heavy and a bit too short for a skinner but a good compromise

overall. Holds an edge well. Has a short edge guard. good sized conceal carry piece.

Another Cold Steel, Recon Scout, good fighting knife with about a 7-1/2' blade quillion about 3/4" top and bottom projection, rubber non slip grip also.

The biggest of them is the Trailmaster, for me a bit to long (9-1/2" blade) and heavy for hand to hand, but a great field knife which will sub as a hatchet, comes in carbon and ss.

These here mentioned are some of the ones I have, in a post SHTF the Trailmaster would be my choice for overall usage.

I Parkerized the Trailmaster blade, it came in the white. I would not worry about rusting in the field, any animal fat will protect the blade.

I am no knife expert, the ones listed I have had for over 20 years and have served well. I have several other makes and styles as well.

Others will have their valid opinions.


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## Jakthesoldier

Normally, I'd jump so far up your 4th point of contact you would be flossing with my boot laces for cryptic, nonsensical, self promoting posts like this. 
For some reason I am curious.
What "real life experience" do you have that none of us could possibly have?
How does your experience make you vastly more knowledgeable in survival and fighting knives than the worlds top instructors?
How do you explain the discrepancies between your statements and the most popular survival and fighting knives on the planet?

How would you debate the survival and fighting efficacy of the kukri over the kbar? The karambit? The tanto? The hatchet? 

How would you compare your experience to the experience of the stories told by those recovered from place crashes, ship wrecks, car crashes in the middle of nowhere? 

What about the experiences of people living in nations where combat and survival type situations are the everyday challenge?

Don't take this as an attack, I am skeptical and curious.


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## SOCOM42

M118LR said:


> I must apologize to all the good members of this forum, (Especially SOCOM42) I bring an extreme insight. Tomorrow Morning as you race to pack a lunch, brew your mourning Joe, and struggle to fight traffic to make it to work ON-TIME. What you have left the house with + 5 lbs equals the real World Experience of post number #5 for me in the past. Will you ever be in such a situation? I should hope not! Can you be prepared for situations such as these that I have experienced and Survived? It depends on your level of preparedness. At the time this was my job, as you head to work tomorrow it is highly unlikely that this shall happen to you. But are you prepared if it should?


Myself, I have not got up and rushed to work since 1978,

My work is/was right here, my machine shop.

However, when I do leave here, I carry a 4" folder, two handguns, both concealed, spare mags and speed loaders.

Jeeps are equipped with GHB's, a rifle or shotgun, situation dependent, a box of every tactical round I may use. plus a level 3a vest.

Most of this is from when part time on the local PD Was the Dept. tactical sniper/ counter sniper, and is a carry over.


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## SOCOM42

Jakthesoldier said:


> Normally, I'd jump so far up your 4th point of contact you would be flossing with my boot laces for cryptic, nonsensical, self promoting posts like this.
> For some reason I am curious.
> What "real life experience" do you have that none of us could possibly have?
> How does your experience make you vastly more knowledgeable in survival and fighting knives than the worlds top instructors?
> How do you explain the discrepancies between your statements and the most popular survival and fighting knives on the planet?
> 
> How would you debate the survival and fighting efficacy of the kukri over the kbar? The karambit? The tanto? The hatchet?
> 
> How would you compare your experience to the experience of the stories told by those recovered from place crashes, ship wrecks, car crashes in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> What about the experiences of people living in nations where combat and survival type situations are the everyday challenge?
> 
> Don't take this as an attack, I am skeptical and curious.


I was taking some fighting knife lessons from a Pilipino Scout 5 decades ago, decide then and there if I was to survive, I needed to use a handgun!

He could have cut out my liver and fed it to me before I fell down.

I KNOW MY LIMITATIONS!


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## Atma

I thought he was just asking what survival knife we use... Then he started talking about polar bears. Now I'm thinking this is an episode of Lost...


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## M118LR

Jakthesoldier said:


> Normally, I'd jump so far up your 4th point of contact you would be flossing with my boot laces for cryptic, nonsensical, self promoting posts like this.
> For some reason I am curious.
> What "real life experience" do you have that none of us could possibly have?
> How does your experience make you vastly more knowledgeable in survival and fighting knives than the worlds top instructors?
> How do you explain the discrepancies between your statements and the most popular survival and fighting knives on the planet?
> 
> How would you debate the survival and fighting efficacy of the kukri over the kbar? The karambit? The tanto? The hatchet?
> 
> How would you compare your experience to the experience of the stories told by those recovered from place crashes, ship wrecks, car crashes in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> What about the experiences of people living in nations where combat and survival type situations are the everyday challenge?
> 
> Don't take this as an attack, I am skeptical and curious.


It is so hard to begin. I shall not take this as an attack. Possibilities are endless, but how many here have been left alone to swim to the ice pack and Survive after a successful RESCUE?

My experience lends nothing to the concept of Fighting Knives, but I have taken others lives without offering them the chance at a "Fight", with my knife. In COMBAT giving your enemy a chance to "Fight" isn't regarded as a rule to continued existence.

I have received Government Training from some of those you mention, But should the need come to do the "Deed", none of them are ever there to guide your hand.

I don't recall any popular Survival Knives, only the Popular Bush-Craft Knifes of those Practicing but not Experiencing True Life Survival Emergencies. Who was it that RESCUED those from plane crashes, ship wrecks, car crashes, Combat, and Survival Challenges on an every day every where basis?

My Direct Combat, Combat Recon, Combat Rescue, and Survival Rescue Time is beyond most folks ability to fathom. We are not talking about tours, We are discussing multiple decades! I consider this an Honor that the American People have bestowed upon Me, not any burden that I was Directed to Bare. All my actions where strictly Voluntary!

Most of the Survivors of everyday Combat Survival are the sheep left over from the Culling of the Wolves. The Tales they tell usually end with the retelling of other folks like Me that took Positive Action to ensure they Survived to tell others those tales.

You should be skeptical, unless of course I pulled your bacon out of the fire. Then you would have a tendency to attempt to find out who and what I was. But it would end fruitlessly, and in the end I or those of my kind would be of no importance.

Have I satiated your curiosity?


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## M118LR

Atma said:


> I thought he was just asking what survival knife we use... Then he started talking about polar bears. Now I'm thinking this is an episode of Lost...


Sorry if I lost you Atma, but please reread the part about Bush Craft Knives are wonderful for wooded situations. Then you can conceive of the Non-Wooded areas that exist around the Globe.


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## Atma

I wouldn't use the knife for anything other than survival. I'm not using it for defense of any type. I'm not able to get a gun at this point, but when I can I am.


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## M118LR

Atma said:


> I wouldn't use the knife for anything other than survival. I'm not using it for defense of any type. I'm not able to get a gun at this point, but when I can I am.


Have you considered that firearms make noise and run out of ammunition?

Knives are used more in daily tasking than any firearm. Should you take down game how would you process it without a form of knife? Chewing on the carcass of a fresh kill will bring more than just 2 Legged vultures to your position. Being found dead on a pile of spent brass isn't Surviving!


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## Atma

M118LR said:


> Have you considered that firearms make noise and run out of ammunition?
> 
> Knives are used more in daily tasking than any firearm. Should you take down game how would you process it without a form of knife? Chewing on the carcass of a fresh kill will bring more than just 2 Legged vultures to your position. Being found dead on a pile of spent brass isn't Surviving!


I have to do what's best with my situation. I have a botched back surgery that leaves me with constant back pain and numbness in my legs. So my plan for survival is to do what I can. Yes my gun could run out of ammunition. Yes it's not going to be easy to prepare my kill to eat it if I can barely bend over. But I guess I'll ha e to adapt to survive or die trying. I'll probably get killed by someone like you if I had to guess. You seem like you will just take what you want from those weaker than yourself. But till you find me, I'll survive as long as I can.


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## M118LR

Unfortunately, in survival, it has been proven that the first and most important person to Your Survival is You. It is only after you have ensured that all your Survival Goals have been meet that you can look toward making a better day for those around you. Once you become one of the Old or Weak it isn't unheard of to sacrifice yourself for the good of future generations, but they will normally be direct descendants. "War is Hell", but survival can be even harder. JMHO.


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## Renec

1-polar bear? stuff 45acp in his maw and pull trigger 8-10 times. no way I'm going toe to toe with a Polar or Grizzly.They are legendary for the amount of punishment they can absorb.
2-knife? whatever I may be carrying that day..tantos are favored,but a Gerber folder is with me always (New Gerber EAB Lite Industrial Stainless Steel Pocket Knife Silver Y482 | eBay).
3-SOG multi-tool always on my belt.


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## M118LR

Thank You Renec, and Atma. 

1. Unless you are in a theater of Combat Operations, there is nothing exiting your insertion platform with you other than a Survival Knife. (My Day, Victory or S&W M&P 38 Special was Government Issue) .45 ACP 1911 or S&W Model 39 9 mm counted against your 5 lbs of optional equipment. None of those choices compared favorably to a Winchester or Mossberg Pump Shotgun! Especially in the Arctic, and without being in a Combat Zone none of them where authorized. 

2. Knife, GI. Unless otherwise specified. Somehow a folding knife isn't going to give me a warm Fuzzy secluded on an Ice Pack. Back-up maybe, Primary NEVER. 

3. Nice to have, but what did you give up to get it?


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## Renec

ummm...I *might* have given up my soul for the SOG..but it was a lend/lease pact.... btw? How the hell did I end up in the Arctic? Too damn cold for me! BRRRRRRR!!!!!


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## Jakthesoldier

M118LR said:


> Unfortunately, in survival, it has been proven that the first and most important person to Your Survival is You.


So... The same as the rest of life?


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## M118LR

Renec said:


> ummm...I *might* have given up my soul for the SOG..but it was a lend/lease pact.... btw? How the hell did I end up in the Arctic? Too damn cold for me! BRRRRRRR!!!!!


You returned from Nam to Hawaii in time for May, the other folks where having a celebration so it was a good time for a Snoop & Photo Shoot, Adak/Shemya where in a White Out so Fairbanks was the Divert Field. Some Smuck decided to sink his fishing boat and all the Air Force SWIMMERS where NPQ. It was just a simple SAR Mission, until the Helo reached it's "On Top" RTB. Sucked that you where still in the water looking for cast away's, You were NAVY, you could take it! Rotors giving you the wrong Doppler Effect have a way of deflating your ego. JMHO.


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## Jakthesoldier

M118LR said:


> Thank You Renec, and Atma.
> 
> 1. Unless you are in a theater of Combat Operations, there is nothing exiting your insertion platform with you other than a Survival Knife. (My Day, Victory or S&W M&P 38 Special was Government Issue) .45 ACP 1911 or S&W Model 39 9 mm counted against your 5 lbs of optional equipment. None of those choices compared favorably to a Winchester or Mossberg Pump Shotgun! Especially in the Arctic, and without being in a Combat Zone none of them where authorized.
> 
> 2. Knife, GI. Unless otherwise specified. Somehow a folding knife isn't going to give me a warm Fuzzy secluded on an Ice Pack. Back-up maybe, Primary NEVER.
> 
> 3. Nice to have, but what did you give up to get it?


So you served in WWII


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## M118LR

Jakthesoldier said:


> So you served in WWII


You didn't?

Of course I didn't serve in WWII, but the Navy Weapons Choices at the start of my time did. LOL.


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## Atma

So are you saying you have 5 pounds to carry on you at all times? You are talking about your EDC (every day carry)? I'm just trying to understand what you want or what this topic is about. I thought you were comparing survival knives which I don't carry on me everyday. One because I'd probably get arrested and 2 because I don't see my Rambo knife needed for everyday situations. 

My everyday carry includes a few things. 

Folding 3.5 inch blade (Tac-Force spring assist) 
Gerber Dime
Gerber Curve
Gerber Shard
Leatherman 6
Swiss-Force multitool 
Tiny button cell flashlight 
Lighter 
Matches
Bandaids
Chapstick
Pen
Laminated phone numbers
Zip ties
Altoids-Survival-Kit 
Wind-up watch
Paracord bracelet with compass and whistle
Paracord shoe / boot laces

Think that's it. Most are on my Keychain. Some in my wallet. Obviously watch on one are and bracelet on the other. If this isn't what you are talking about let me know I guess.


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## M118LR

Thank You again Atma, back on topic. What Quillion/Bolstered/Guarded Knife do Ya'll use or Recommend for Survival?


If you Live the wrong lifestyle Atma, your EDC is Survival Equipment. JMHO.


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## Atma

I saw a nice survival knife on a show called apocalypse 101. I'm gonna look it up for you.


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## Atma

I saw a nice survival knife on a show called apocalypse 101. I'm gonna look it up for you. Samuel Staniforth Ltd - Parry Blade Survival Knife #Tact-MP1

At $300 it exceeds everything I've spent prepping but it was used on the show and it looked excellent.


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## Leeroy Jenkins

I'm not a fan of the guy...I think he's a joke but the Bear Grylls Gerber Survival knife is pretty damn nice. It's only $40 or so too. It's worked well for me.


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## M118LR

Atma said:


> I saw a nice survival knife on a show called apocalypse 101. I'm gonna look it up for you. Samuel Staniforth Ltd - Parry Blade Survival Knife #Tact-MP1
> 
> At $300 it exceeds everything I've spent prepping but it was used on the show and it looked excellent.


Thank You Atma. I thought you might like the SOG SEAL 2000: SOG Specialty Knives SEAL 2000 KNIFE - Utility Knives - Amazon.com

But I believe I'd stick with the Gerber Silver Trident: http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-06995-Silver-Trident-Serration/dp/B0002ILNHY

Before I purchased theTact-MP1. As it hasn't received a warm welcome from American Spec Ops, it may be a bit over engineered. I'm kind of a keep it simple guy.


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## M118LR

Leeroy Jenkins said:


> I'm not a fan of the guy...I think he's a joke but the Bear Grylls Gerber Survival knife is pretty damn nice. It's only $40 or so too. It's worked well for me.


Think it's better than the Prodigy Leeroy? Or is it about the same?


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## Leeroy Jenkins

M118LR said:


> Think it's better than the Prodigy Leeroy? Or is it about the same?


Sorry I'm not familiar with that one so I can't compare...I'm no expert on the subject either. I'm a gun guy but I wanted a decent fixed blade knife to accompany my multi tool.


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## Atma

Those do look like good knives but my next purchase is water filters. Going with the sawyer me thinks.


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## Jakthesoldier

M118LR said:


> You didn't?
> 
> Of course I didn't serve in WWII, but the Navy Weapons Choices at the start of my time did. LOL.


Sorry, I'm having a hard time finding any evidence of the use of the S&W M&P victory outside of aircrew and stateside guards, and any use beyond WWII by anyone other than Air National Guard Tankers.

Doesn't seem to be a standard issue weapon that you, therefore, might have used.

Seems fishy


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## Boss Dog

I have a lot of knives to choose; currently wear a Kershaw Kuro and carry a SOG Seal Pup in the bag, because it is so lite. Thinking if I get a more field type bag I will put a second one in it.


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## AquaHull

Here's my Survival knife
Not mine,but a representation of my W49


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## Seneca

Survival is one of those words that is often gets used like tactical. 
http://www.amazon.com/ESEE-Knives-F...ie=UTF8&qid=1443016342&sr=8-2&keywords=esee+5
http://www.amazon.com/Esee-5-Esee-6...gyQ52BL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_
Amazon.com : ESEE OD Accessory Pouch for -5 Sheath : Sports & Outdoors


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## SOCOM42

118lr, I have a question.

If you have so much extreem real world experience, why do you solicit detailed opinions from others of a lesser standing?
I know what i used when in active service which is long before your time, and i know which of those items to stand by even today.

1960's Airforce, air police, S&W Mod 15 combat masterpiece, aircrew members, snub nose Colt and Smith.
Both of those had backstrap marked, "US property", were parkerized.

WW2 Victory models were used on a limited basis by navy and AF personell in rear areas.

Generally speaking, in Nam, if it was ever made, it was there.

Some army staff officers even carried Mod 1917 Colt revolvers.

I wonder if extreme diving = extreme hunting???


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## Seneca

I'm familiar with the Air Force issuing the Model 15 to pilots. I can't say that they still do. However the Model 15 Combat Masterpiece and it's stainless counter part the Model 67 are fine examples of a .38 special. When I think 38 special the image that comes to mind is the Model 15 combat masterpiece. 

If it is extreme-ness that one is looking for then BudK has what you need.


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## M118LR

SOCOM42 said:


> 118lr, I have a question.
> 
> If you have so much extreem real world experience, why do you solicit detailed opinions from others of a lesser standing?
> I know what i used when in active service which is long before your time, and i know which of those items to stand by even today.
> 
> Generally speaking, in Nam, if it was ever made, it was there.


SOCOM42, you know that is just baiting. Questions are asked because the points of view's of other's expand One's own Narrow Mindedness. Every Day is another chance to Learn, most academic break through's come from disciplines outside the Learned Scholars within the Field of Study. Quick version "From the mouths of children", one can hear Truth. There are many others within the clan that need cutlery. The one size (lowest bid) fit's all Military Supply System method driven by the most expedient use of Tax Payer Dollars isn't the Model I choose to emulate for My Clan.

Jakthesoldier, I had no idea that the limits of your ability to confirm operations from long ago has any bearing on the truth. Let's see how well you can confirm things: South China Sea 10 JUN 80, SS Point Margo (US Registry) directed by US Navy Patrol Aircraft performs my final NAM related action. If you can't confirm it I guess it didn't happen!

Seneca: I didn't notice a Quillion/Bolster/Guard on the ESEE so Thanks, but no Thanks.

AquaHull, I'm not familiar with the W49, so Thanks for a Lead that I can research.

Boss Dog, the SEAL PUP has had Tang Quality Issues in the past, not sure they have been corrected completely yet.

Thank you for your inputs so far, Please continue.

Reference: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a239176.pdf

PS: Just how "Front Line do Ya'll expect Fairbanks Alaska to be" after all It would only be Civilian Lives that hung in the balance of a Survival Timeline. So just because I was "OFF SHIFT" and the (Can't say enough about SAR USAF/USCG) folks that tend to such matters had nothing left to offer in the most CRITICAL of times. Did Ya'll really condemn those fishermen to "Death by the Arctic Sea"? I was a COMBAT SWIMMER, do Ya'll consider that less than a USAF/USCG SAR Crewman? Uncle Sam put the folks returning from the Moon in my, (With Air Force Transportation) hands. It was a Downtime, less than 24 Hour SAR Mission when my companions and I couldn't do OUR JOB. Save a few Drunken Civilian Fishermen Mission that had no other option without Enemy Participation. Get off your soapbox and spare a few lives Jakthesoldier. The ready was Launched before My Main Ride Left Town. Just because the "Ready" had no Sea Lift Capabilities (Air Force Rules) and could only set down, DID YOU THINK Uncle Sam Would Condemn (an asset) ME, to a Horrific Death! All of US Came HOME! How do i give a face with the tongue out? Comeback Jakthesoldier?


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## Jakthesoldier

Actually I bated you into doing exactly what you said you wouldn't do, revealing your own experience. From the info you provided it won't be that hard to nail down exactly where you were and the extent of what you could have done. Wasn't even difficult. Wouldn't it have been easier to just express your personal experience and put value behind your words?


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## M118LR

But for all your trappings. You have failed to enlighten, and I have spoon feed you, yet you have no method, nor manner of conveying anything I have or might not have done to anyone. All you think you did was put your values to my words. Second place is still first loser in my World. Want to tell me where I was or what I did,when I did it? The entire forum is watching! LOL.


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## Renec

I feel like I'm having a Matrix flashback! http://schneeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/morpheus-red-blue-pill.jpg


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## M118LR

Renec, last I remember you asked how you ended in the land of ice and snow where the midnight sun of the Hot springs glow, but I still await your prophetic message of the Rule of Steel. So would you care to enlighten Me and Mine as to what you carry or recommend within the Realm of Metal?


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## Renec

a Flaming BattleAxe of course!!! c'mon! too easy!!!


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## turbo6

I like knives.


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## M118LR

Would it be possible to come back to Survival Knives with Quillions/ Bolsters/ Guards?


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## 8301

I'm beginning to suspect that M118LR is more interested in pushing people's buttons than actually contributing to this forum in a meaningful way.

I wonder what forum kicked him out last and how long he will last here.


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## M118LR

FoolAmI said:


> I'm beginning to suspect that M118LR is more interested in pushing people's buttons than actually contributing to this forum in a meaningful way.
> 
> I wonder what forum kicked him out last and how long he will last here.


You are entitled to your opinion FoolAmI , no matter how misdirected it may be. Now would you care to contribute to the topic at hand in a meaningful way, or do I have to out last you here until I can gather your words of wisdom before I find out how long Ya'll can possibly last here?


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## Renec

in the Land of METAL..we all carry Flaming Battle Axes or GIANT Flaming Broadswords. It was you who transported me from the Arctic to the Land of METAL. WHat wizardry is this,i ask? And now you want to drag me back to reality via the Rabbit Hole? NAY I SAY! I believe i prefer this Land of METAL where we worship MAIDEN,SLAYER and ZEPPELIN!!! Renec,you say..NAY! I AM THRASH!!! RAWR!!! *BANGS HEAD*


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## Jakthesoldier

FoolAmI said:


> I'm beginning to suspect that M118LR is more interested in pushing people's buttons than actually contributing to this forum in a meaningful way.
> 
> I wonder what forum kicked him out last and how long he will last here.


Just now? Well better late than never... Welcome to the club.


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## Jakthesoldier

But to answer the Op, I would forego any guards or tsuba in favor of a blade without. The benefits of a guard are far outweighed by the benefits of no guard. 

Yes, a guard will stop my hand from encroaching on the blade, but so will a proper grip, a finger loop, or any manner of other technological advances throughout the history of blades. If a samurai can open his own liver by gripping the blade of his tanto wrapped only in a cloth, I'm sure we are all capable of gripping a properly handled knife while stabbing a fictional polar bear. 

The survival capabilities of a multi faceted knife, like a Kubrick, are nothing to sneeze at. Stabbing and hacking and slashing are all possible, it can be used as a knife, machete, or hatchet. 

What about a karambits? The finger loop makes retention simple, can cater to any knife fighting style, and is easy to conceal. 

The tanto? Slightly curved blade causes significantly deeper slashes. The point is durable and penetrates easily. 

If we are talking about fighting blades with survival potential, we might as well throw the ninjato in there for good measure. Yes, it has a tsuba, but not to stop the hand from sliding onto the blade. It's purpose is to act as a guard from enemy blade strikes, a step ladder, a nerve strike weapon, etc. The scabbard serves several purposes, including a snorkel, spear, baton, grappling hook, storage container, etc.


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## M118LR

jakthesoldier, you make some very valid points. There are many differing uses and blade styles. Fighting/ Fighting Knives are not really part of the concern, but as long as there is a Guard/Quillion/Bolster to keep inexperienced traumatized hands off the blade long enough to make a Strike/Stab that is the primary concern. The more skilled the operator the more styles of knives they can become proficient with.
I'm most interested in the complete novice not inflicting more damage to themselves than the intended target be it fish,foul,reptile, or mammal.


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## 1skrewsloose

Why is this guy still here! He changes his standards from his original post after every reply! He is always right, everyone else is wrong. I tried to glean some pertinent info from his posts, but found none. Very evasive on his credentials. jmo. He seems to be fixated on Guard/Quillion/Bolster. Big words for a little man.


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## M118LR

Thank You for your kind words 1skrewloose, tiny grips for tiny unskilled hands. Nothings changed, still looking for input on Knives that are used or recommended by the users of the forum which have a Hand Guard/Quillion/Bolster to keep hands off the blade. Some of the folks have gotten it and given me info to research, it seems that others don't get it and are giving me the reasons they don't use such knives, and still others that just want to Voir dire the New Guy.


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## 1skrewsloose

M118LR said:


> Thank You for your kind words 1skrewloose, tiny grips for tiny unskilled hands. Nothings changed, still looking for input on Knives that are used or recommended by the users of the forum which have a Hand Guard/Quillion/Bolster to keep hands off the blade. Some of the folks have gotten it and given me info to research, it seems that others don't get it and are giving me the reasons they don't use such knives, and still others that just want to Voir dire the New Guy.


Last response from me to you. You know it all, why do you have to ask for direction??!!?? You have a serious attitude problem. I'm not a doctor, but can see that much. Have a good life.


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## M118LR

Taking a moment to recap:

K-bar (All inclusive?)
Cold Steel SRK being used
Cold Steel Recon Scout (Rec)
Cold Steel Trailmaster (Not Rec to large)
Tact-MP1 (Rec not used)
Bear Grylls Survival being used
SOG Seal Pup being used
Western W-49 Bowie being used

And some hand made owner operator Knives that aren't on the market. 

Thank You for your input so far Folks, anyone using or recommending other knives that fit the criteria.


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## Jakthesoldier

M118LR said:


> jakthesoldier, you make some very valid points. There are many differing uses and blade styles. Fighting/ Fighting Knives are not really part of the concern, but as long as there is a Guard/Quillion/Bolster to keep inexperienced traumatized hands off the blade long enough to make a Strike/Stab that is the primary concern. The more skilled the operator the more styles of knives they can become proficient with.
> I'm most interested in the complete novice not inflicting more damage to themselves than the intended target be it fish,foul,reptile, or mammal.


Then train them genius. Don't coddle them with inferior implements


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## M118LR

Jakthesoldier said:


> Then train them genius. Don't coddle them with inferior implements


Allowing them to use their own minds is the most correct training, in my opinion. It's hard to Spark a fire or clean a fish with a rubber Training Knife Jakthesoldier. Until they are experienced enough to make thier own decisions, I'll add the safety factor of a Guard/Quillion/Bolster. Remember, it's the operator that makes the knife, not the knife that makes the operator. But many things come backwards in training nowadays. Most children learn to use a Knife before they learn Flint Napping.


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## Jakthesoldier

yea... I was given about 2 minutes of instruction and a old buck pocket folder when I was 4. I have since cut myself exactly 3 times when I did not intend to, and all but once after I turned 15. But, I was never coddled. Ever. I was shooting, alone, by 5. I was riding fences and loading and feeding hay trucks when I was 6. I guess I was just very fortunate to grow up in a time and place that VERY few of my generation were able to experience.

I guess its for that reason that I shy away from any form of "protective" behavior towards children. The fastest way to learn is to do. Scraping your knees and hands, bumping your head, cuts, bruises, defeat, failure, falling, etc. It's all part of growing up. That is why my generation and the generations after mine are a bunch of pissy children who want everything handed to them.


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## M118LR

Times (Liberalization) have changed, back when You got your pocket knife it wouldn't have been abnormal to carve a Toy Pistol from a bar of soap. Today children get tossed out of school for chewing a Pop Tart in the shape of a pistol. Thinking about K-BAR Short or Little Fin/ Case/ Buck not sure, soliciting inputs.


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## M118LR

1skrewsloose said:


> Last response from me to you. You know it all, why do you have to ask for direction??!!?? You have a serious attitude problem. I'm not a doctor, but can see that much. Have a good life.


I shall hold you to your own words to see what kind of man you truly are.

It has been so long since I was a novice that I can not conceive of just how many failures others may bring to themselves. The preconceived Ideology of professionals isn't lenient enough to bear the Honest testimony of the novice seeking knowledge. But those that are so set in their ways that it is root hog or die shall become extinct, yet those that question why still have the ability to change with the times. JMHO.


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## M118LR

Special Thank You to Leeroy Jenkins. Upon researching the Bear Grylls Ultimate It had allot to offer, a few gimmicks, and left me with some concerns as it wasn't a Portland built Knife. However, it did lead me to the Gerber Strong Arm 31-002882: StrongArm Fixed Blade Black FE

I am soliciting input and opinions as to how this knife has worked for anyone in the field. I've used the LMF and Prodigy. (both have shortcomings) that the Strong Arm appears to have corrected.

Considering this as the Tiny Troopers initial issue Knife: AFSK and K-BAR Short both have leather wrapped rat tangs which don't hold up well after years of salt water exposure. As this will be the knife used with Grandpa, It may hold sentimental significance so longevity (Durability) is a consideration.

Jakthesoldier, I'm particularly interested in your take on the Gerber Strong Arm Fine Edge. Need to evaluate if I'm overprotecting (Coddling) the Tiny Troopers, but the Guard was Parental Must Have!


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## Jakthesoldier

Big knives can be hard to handle for small hands. Another reason I would continue to press a small pocket folder.

When I learned to use a knife, most of my uses required placing my thumb along the spine to better control fine movements, which was much more difficult with my k bar, than my buck. (found k bar in one of our barns) I found the k bar really cool, but impractical. Aside from a few larger tasks (normally reserved for an axe or machete) I still find a 3 inch folder or lockblade ideal. That being said, what about this little guy? Has a ridge to keep fingers off the blade, but a smooth back and spine. I have carried one through combat and camping. Currently it serves as an emergency can opener and striker for ferrous rods. Still sharp enough to do what I need. 
EVO Mid - Tanto, Serrated


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## M118LR

I have a pair, Goodie Two shoes and the Terrorist. Goodie Two Shoes follows every instruction to the letter, the Terrorist is allot more like me. Goodie two shoes has been doing things that Grown Men Didn't since she was the Terrorists age. Hope that sets the Scenario. (Sent the Army Infantry off with a Tonto of His Choice, Got Him back early and Thing 1, USN Baby Boats Hasn't been the same since.) Got a POG that's in Korea Now, Thing 2's and she is the OIC of all the little things, make no mistake. Please do not confuse what they can be under my tutelage, for Her Idea of what they will be. Of all the offspring that I have sired, the Terrorist may be the one if I live so long to challenge me at that advanced age. I have opened a lot of cans with the Ontario Mk 3 Mod 0 in my time, it will outlast me but I dare you to sharpen it to a razor edge and make it last to next week. (Serious Challenge) I may be an outcast on this forum, but this forum is here to answer questions of those that have yet to be Warrior's
By those that have been the ultimate Warriors, I never expected the members of this Forum to answer the questions I might have, but I must ask them to give me thier Opinions for the questions that I might get for those who have to live under the Umbrella Of Protection that I provided. Jakthesoldier, I will state that I have been and will be the protective element that brought you HOME. But I respect your Bird's eye view, as those that follow me are few and far between. Wink.


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## Slippy

What's a quillion? :Confuse:


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## M118LR

Not quite used to this format, hope this works Slippy.


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## M118LR

Eventually both of the Tiny Troopers will mature enough to graduate into EDC Folding Knives Jakthesoldier, by then they should have a good foundation from which to chose what suits them best. I've already Trained them on many things considered essential (that seem to be neglected) that many others Know but yet may not have actually done. Even though Her Daddy is in the Army, he had never used a Ferro Rod Striker. It warmed my heart when she told him that he would need to scratch off the coatings on both his new knife and the rod in order to make it spark and light the cotton ball to start the charcoal grill. When the combination of Tiny Troopers snared the Possum rampaging the back yard, Grandpa had to dispatch it and they could only watch as I cleaned it. It was then that I figured it was time to start them on limited supervised knife tasking. Witnessing something (Like seeing it on TV) and actually doing it yourself are two different animals. JMHO. I did have some restrictions placed on me by their Mother, and they won't be carrying their knives with them. The knives will be issued and recovered by Grandpa at the beginning and end of every training evolution. They will however be stored in the Tiny Trooper Emergency BOB's should an actual emergency arise. (It's still Hurricane Season) So I do agree with you that folding knives can do and are practical, (I carry one every day) but at the current stage of their training a fixed blade that can endure a lifetime of use seemed more practical. If nothing else it will allow them to develop more effective and efficient snares, build their own friction fire sets, etc.... Thank Ya'll for your inputs. If the Gerber Strong Arm is actually to large, I've got a couple of prodigy's they can use, but I'm not to keen on how much of the blade is given to serrations on the Prodigy. Once again, I Thank Ya'll for your inputs.


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## Slippy

M118LR said:


> Not quite used to this format, hope this works Slippy.


Thanks M118LR, I didn't realize that part had a name. Learn something everyday!

My 3 Go To Knives (I've got a handful of specialty knives) but these have been used and carried the most. The Buck since late 70's early 80's. She's like a good country love song; I got her and was real proud, I did something stupid and lost her, then got her back again! The KaBar mainly sits in a bag ready when needed and the pocket Case is like a hair in a biscuit.

View attachment 13011


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## M118LR

Slippy, if you look up the Mil-Spec Drawing of your Fighting/Utility Knife it will be labeled as "Guard". The same Area will be labeled "Bolster" on a Bowie Style Knife. The purpose of all three is to assist in keeping the Knife Hand off the blade. (Usually while stabbing) Ever since Mors Kochanski gave his definition of a general bush craft knife Guards/Bolsters/Quillions have been shunned by those attempting to follow the "PURE BUSH CRAFT" Dogma. I find it interesting that the only thing Mors says can't be done with a Knife with a Guard is " It prevents the use of a simple, secure,deep sheath. Some people prefer a guard for fear of slipping forward onto the knife edge,but unless the knife is used for stabbing, the hand should never slip in this way." Reference: BUSH CRAFT outdoor skills and wilderness survival.

Most folks don't remember that Mors only considered Full Tang Knives with Heavy Pommels suitable, so all the MORAKIV knives without full tangs would immediately have been rejected. In Today's Dollar Conscience World of Preparation, It is the price point not the Bush Crafting Capabilities that drive sales. It is curious why Mors immediately followed His Definition of a Bush Craft Knife with a first aid for knife blade cuts? But should you continue reading Mors gives excellent examples of how to and how not to use a knife for Bush Crafting. With just a slight amount of practice all the examples Mors describes can be duplicated with a knife that has a Guard/Bolster/Quillion, provided you have the dexterity. Should you not have the dexterity to perform such tasks, it might behoove you to consider a knife with a Guard/Bolster/Quillion or practice up on your first aid. JMHO. But Mors never claimed that his idea of a Bush Craft Knife was a Survival Knife, the term Survival Knife Came About Via Military
Training Courses. If you notice your (K-BAR) is a Fighting/Utility Knife in Military Jargon, while the Air Force Survival Knife (or Pilot-Flyer Survival Knife) and the Newer Developments have a multitude of differences in size shape gadgets etc. Even RAMBO stated that his Knife was a "Hunting Knife". Skinner's, Carvers,Filet, etc all are just tools designed around the performance of the required task, so multiple tools for multiple tasks should be expected. JMHO.


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## Jakthesoldier

Remember though, the k bar is not a survival knife, but a combat knife. Wasn't it the air force that hollowed out the handle to store stuff and coined the term "survival knife"?


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## M118LR

Jakthesoldier said:


> Remember though, the k bar is not a survival knife, but a combat knife. Wasn't it the air force that hollowed out the handle to store stuff and coined the term "survival knife"?


That would be ingraham's modification the the randall # 14 attack knife. Actually the first Survival Knife was issued to pilot's in the 1930's. Here is a link: WWII FIGHTING KNIVES PRICE GUIDE - MilitaryItems.com
Randall Made Knives » Model 14 ? Attack

The survival knife must folks from the Vietnam Era will recall is the A499


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## bladesnut

What about this survival knife?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2025934841/tusk-the-universal-survival-knife-by-loyal-blades









Apart from having some tools it seems like a well thought out survival knife. I can see it being useful for heavy and light tasks. I like the high flat grind, the micarta handles and the flat pommel. And the free shipping too! :glee:


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