# Personal view



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Abortion has many options what say you? Never? Mother’s life in danger? Mother’s life in danger, rape or incest, heart beat, 1st trimester, second trimester? Little bastards fair game until it pops out? ok kill all the little darlings you want anytime for any reason even after birth.

I really can not peg a reason the mom would die carrying a baby to term or at least until it could survive in an incubator so I guess I am in the NO camp.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Only time doctor should get involved in ending a pregnancy is if it is an ectopic pregnancy

(An ectopic pregnancy is one that occurs outside the womb, usually in one of the fallopian tubes.) it is impossible to carry to term)


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Overall abortion is wrong, and I would not do it. 
But some exceptions must be made, specially if it includes risk to the life of the mother or rape (or both). 
Sometimes there are girls as young as 10, 11 years old that get abused and end up pregnant. Their bodies usually is too small to carry a pregnancy to term, and it is a life threatening circunstance. In some countries in south america (where I live), the justice takes so long to authorize the abortion that the baby ends dying before birth. Sometimes the young mother dies too. 
The saddest thing about the rape cases is that everyone judges the woman who does not want to have a baby from a rapist, but almost never the man who did it get any punishment. ☹


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Only time doctor should get involved in ending a pregnancy is if it is an ectopic pregnancy
> 
> (An ectopic pregnancy is one that occurs outside the womb, usually in one of the fallopian tubes.) it is impossible to carry to term)


Spot on !!!

There are pregnancies that have a direct 100% threat to the LIFE of the mother, . . . continuing the pregnancy WILL KILL the mother. Sad as it is to have to terminate the pregnancy, . . . it is no different than any other self defense situation. BUT, . . . it should be the mother and the mother alone who makes that call.

Beyond that, . . . far as I'm concerned, . . . any other abortion is murder, . . . and I'm not the judge on that one, . . . Jesus Christ is.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> Spot on !!!
> 
> There are pregnancies that have a direct 100% threat to the LIFE of the mother, . . . continuing the pregnancy WILL KILL the mother. Sad as it is to have to terminate the pregnancy, . . . it is no different than any other self defense situation. BUT, . . . it should be the mother and the mother alone who makes that call.
> 
> ...


The laws aren't written that way: to protect the life of the mother. They're written to protect the health of the mother. What does that mean? It can mean anything. R vs W didn't define "health" Doe vs Bolton did define health and so it can be as little as mom is suffering from headaches, or her mental health, or economic or social health whatever that means--you can see where that can take you.

So long as there's an exception window that's big enough, the laws mean nothing.

As for legitimate instances of health concern, fallopian tube pregnancy is one where it's necessary. Anything in late term isn't legitimate, because it's faster to get the baby out via c-section. C-sections take minutes to do--my first baby boy was born by cesarean and it's super fast so I can testify to that much.

Late term abortions take a long time to perform. This former abortionist explains that it can take a week start to finish (at about @42:13). So if a woman's life is in danger, it's safer to get the baby out by cesarean in every instance.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Anyone reading this whose either had an abortion or assisted in one or preformed an abortion and regrets their choice, there is hope and healing for you. Don't despair.

So anyway, I couldn't vote in this poll because of the reasons I've mentioned above. If there was an option where you had said something like, "the pregnancy can't be carried out to term and the mother will certainly die, then of course, yes abortion is legitimate in that case.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

It's murder and should be treated as such, IMHO.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Yavanna said:


> But some exceptions must be made, specially if it includes..............rape.


please explain why....


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

If it's true that unborn humans are people and thus intrinsically deserving of the same legal protections you and I enjoy, then again, there is no reason to discuss exceptions for rape or incest. A baby conceived in rape is not any less a person than one conceived consensually. If we believe they are people, and people have rights, it would be incoherent and contradictory to say, "Well, except for..." Our whole point is that there is no "except for." People are people are people. To pretend that a baby conceived in rape is not a person is nonsensical. To admit that he is a person but still execute him for his father's sins is morally abominable. We cannot remain consistently pro-life while supporting exceptions because the exceptions must either be based on the belief that not all unborn people are people or that sometimes it is actually okay to murder an innocent and defenseless human being. Either claim contradicts and ultimately destroys our whole case. Pro-abortion people know this. That's why the LEFT wants the exceptions in the first place.

(https://www.dailywire.com/news/4722...102516-podcast&utm_campaign=beingconservative)


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Hear, . . . hear, . . . ^^^^^^^^^^^

May God bless,
Dwight


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I voted never, with no exceptions; because the bastards have turned it into infanticide. That has been a goal from the start, IMHO.
And Planned Parenthood is nothing more than a pack of Doctor Mengele acolytes; what is next on their agenda, killing the old?







Doctor Mengele
Planned Parenthood should hang this guys picture in every clinic that they operate. Because they share the same spirit.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4867232/The-Nazi-monster-allowed-away.html


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Crack addicts getting knocked up and spitting kids out into the welfare system one after another isn't particularly a good thing for a number of reasons that many if not most here bitch about all the time.
Do we make it illegal for some people to have the ability to produce a child? and who makes the decision of who can't, can we say China, and yes I know they lifted the one child law. 
Absolutely never is an extremely narrow and short sighted view, as much as some people would like, the world is not black and white.
For me, within reason, it's a woman's body.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> Crack addicts getting knocked up and spitting kids out into the welfare system one after another isn't particularly a good thing for a number of reasons that many if not most here bitch about all the time.
> Do we make it illegal for some people to have the ability to produce a child? and who makes the decision of who can't, can we say China, and yes I know they lifted the one child law.
> Absolutely never is an extremely narrow and short sighted view, as much as some people would like, the world is not black and white.
> For me, within reason, it's a woman's body.


What other instances do you feel, within reason, that cold-blooded murder of a human being is acceptable?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> the world is not black and white.


yes it is. it is always wrong to murder an innocent person

it is always wrong to hurt a defenseless person

it is always wrong to steal what is not yours

it is always evil to try and kill a whole group/type/kind of person... be they jews, Armenians, or others

----------------------
since it is a woman's body are you ok if a 12 year old decides to start prostituting herself for money to buy a new doll... or would you force her to wait until she is 18?

are you ok with a 18 year old selling themselves for money?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Ecotopic pregnancy..is about the reason for abortion in my view. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> For me, within reason, it's a woman's body.


Go witness the abortions of say a half dozen 3rd trimester babies, . . .

After you have examined, counted, and codified all the parts you were able to identify, . . . come back and explain to us how it was the woman's body you saw in the stainless steel pans.

You need not bother explaining that a good portion of the parts you saw were so mangled and cut up, . . . you had no idea where they came from.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> For me, within reason, it's a woman's body.


For me, my wife, any biologist, and countless other men and women across this nation, it isn't.
It is a unique human life and deserves the same treatment as you or me.


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Statements made by people who can not bring life into the world, also known as men, making judgements on what a self aware woman can and can not do with her body.
Yet on the other hand probably bitch and complain about all the woman raising kids on welfare which you are paying a portion of.

Two side of the same coin.

What about the child that was raped, there is a point when a girl, say 9-11 years old, is physically too young to safely give birth and could die doing so.
So now there's a real risk of trading one life for another, who are you to make the decision of which one lives. What if there are extenuating circumstances and both children may die.

I'm not saying all life isn't precious, but like I said, the world isn't black and white.

But I only speak from a mans point of view.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> Statements made by people who can not bring life into the world, also known as men, making judgements on what a self aware woman can and can not do with her body.


Men bring life into the world,too. I've never heard of a woman (other than the Blessed Virgin Mary) who didn't have a man's help with that.



> Yet on the other hand probably bitch and complain about all the woman raising kids on welfare which you are paying a portion of.
> 
> Two side of the same coin.


Prior to welfare families and churches used to fill that spot.



> What about the child that was raped, there is a point when a girl, say 9-11 years old, is physically too young to safely give birth and could die doing so.
> So now there's a real risk of trading one life for another, who are you to make the decision of which one lives. What if there are extenuating circumstances and both children may die.


 A c section is faster, safer and less traumatic in such unfortunate situations.



> I'm not saying all life isn't precious, but like I said, the world isn't black and white.


 Actually I think it is. At least with regard to faith and morals. 


> But I only speak from a mans point of view.


 Takes a man to bring a child into the world. I should think it'd be hell for a man to have to know his baby is being aborted and he has no say about it.


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

I'm not going to go round and round on this subject, we aren't going to change each others view on this.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> Statements made by people who can not bring life into the world, also known as men, making judgements on what a self aware woman can and can not do with her body.
> Yet on the other hand probably bitch and complain about all the woman raising kids on welfare which you are paying a portion of.
> 
> Two side of the same coin.
> ...


Oh, for crying in the dark! So I am not to have a say because I am a man? Moronic! Only women can speak on not killing another human or on morality? Really?

Copulating is not for pleasure; it is made pleasurable so that we will do it. Copulation is for procreation. Been that way for thousands of years. God gave us rules for a reason. We're not stupid animals. We are expected to have discipline.

Lack of discipline is no excuse for murder, and that is what abortion is. Whether you like it or not, abortion is murder. The baby is in the woman's body, but it is NOT her body and it isn't her life. It is a separate life.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm amazed that otherwise intelligent human beings have fallen for this idiotic narrative that the evil leftists/media have perpetuated that abortion is "a right that has a woman has over "her" body".

Bizzarro World...


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I learned my lesson the last time I posted on the abortion issue. I won’t make that mistake again.
However, I have learned one valuable truth in 68 years and after two divorces. YOU WILL NEVER CHANGE ANYBODY’S MIND FROM A DEEPLY HELD BELIEF OR CONVICTION. You guys can post, debate, and fight all you want. Nobody is changing their opinion!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

So by a liberals way of thinking if anyone makes my life hard, rough , uncomfortable, embarrassing , inconveniences me in any way or just plain does not fit in to my plans . I can kill them. Killing someone to make your life easier is not compassion.
Yes people can change. Brain washed in public school I was a pro killer as a young boy . As a man I saw the truth .


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## Agamalar (May 22, 2019)

Never is my answer. It is horrible


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Agamalar said:


> Never is my answer. It is horrible


Amen, it is horrible, and my answer was never, because of it. 
Anyone that can kill a baby; especially the way they want to now, ie, on the table; can just as easily, kill me.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Since nobody is going to change their mind on this, I voted on the heartbeat option. It’s better to have the line drawn here than no line at all.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

I am not looking for a fight, but I am curious. For those that chose the rape and incest exceptions, what is your rational in terms of the human life of the baby. I can see an argument for the mother's life (I chose never and leave it to God) as it is one life or the other, but if you believe that life starts at conception, then why does who the father is make a life less important? Is a child conceived through rape or incest somehow less of a human? Does it have a smaller or less complete soul? If it is ok to extinguish these lives in the womb, why not just seek out people born from these circumstances and kill them? Are their lives worth more once they are born? Again, not looking for a fight. I respect most members of this board, as rational thinking human beings, and would like to hear the answers, if any are willing to offer them.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

stevekozak said:


> I am not looking for a fight, but I am curious. For those that chose the rape and incest exceptions, what is your rational in terms of the human life of the baby. I can see an argument for the mother's life (I chose never and leave it to God) as it is one life or the other, but if you believe that life starts at conception, then why does who the father is make a life less important? Is a child conceived through rape or incest somehow less of a human? Does it have a smaller or less complete soul? If it is ok to extinguish these lives in the womb, why not just seek out people born from these circumstances and kill them? Are their lives worth more once they are born? Again, not looking for a fight. I respect most members of this board, as rational thinking human beings, and would like to hear the answers, if any are willing to offer them.


I totally get your point. Just for conversations sake, let me ask this. If a girl or woman gets raped, and the rapist is not caught, who is responsible for raising the child and all the costs involved?


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

stevekozak said:


> I am not looking for a fight, but I am curious.


Oh, fighting is alright, as long as the right people get shot. (I think Clint Eastwood said that, but it's still a viable view of self defense).

But here's my take on abortion. I don't really know about the mental gymnastics a woman goes through during a rape and then the realization she's been impregnated. But I do know how I felt when a guy was on the local talk show and he described how he would handle a full term birth that the mother did not want.

He started that he would "first make the baby comfortable" and obviously his view ended with a coat-hanger.

So here is my position. The moment a viable child leaves the mother's body he becomes a full fledged American citizen. Ergo, the abortionist with the coat-hanger is now an 'assassin.' Since we are allowed to use deadly force to prevent the death of an innocent person, I would (happily) dust the abortionist.

As much as I find the whole episode distasteful, the mother had a full nine months to decide on a plan. By giving birth, that span has now expired.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

stevekozak said:


> I am not looking for a fight, but I am curious. For those that chose the rape and incest exceptions, what is your rational in terms of the human life of the baby. I can see an argument for the mother's life (I chose never and leave it to God) as it is one life or the other, but if you believe that life starts at conception, then why does who the father is make a life less important? Is a child conceived through rape or incest somehow less of a human? Does it have a smaller or less complete soul? If it is ok to extinguish these lives in the womb, why not just seek out people born from these circumstances and kill them? Are their lives worth more once they are born? Again, not looking for a fight. I respect most members of this board, as rational thinking human beings, and would like to hear the answers, if any are willing to offer them.


Adoption comes to mind as a viable option. I can understand a rape victim not wanting to raise her attackers child. Same with incest. Then again, would a woman, after having been viciously rapped, want to carry the child to term? Should she be forced by the state to live with the reminder of her attacker every time she looks down at her belly? Hard questions. One more hard question, should the state even be involved?


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

I don't think anyone actually answered my question. :sad2: That is ok, though.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

KUSA said:


> I totally get your point. Just for conversations sake, let me ask this. If a girl or woman gets raped, and the rapist is not caught, who is responsible for raising the child and all the costs involved?


Really good question. I think it depends on what she decides to do. If she is going to keep it and raise, then she and hers would be responsible (is that fair? I don't know, but I do know that life in general is not fair, but the lack of fairness in life doesn't constitute a valid reason to kill innocents). If she wants to adopt it out, there are both agencies and individuals that would foot the bill.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Prepared One said:


> Adoption comes to mind as a viable option. I can understand a rape victim not wanting to raise her attackers child. Same with incest. Then again, would a woman, after having been viciously rapped, want to carry the child to term? Should she be forced by the state to live with the reminder of her attacker every time she looks down at her belly? Hard questions. One more hard question, should the state even be involved?


Adoption is an extremely viable option. As to your first two questions, you ever hear that adage "two wrongs do not make a right"? My original question stands "what makes the life of the baby that is a product of rape or incest any less valuable of a life"? In answer to your last question, the state should only be involved in stopping abortions if the state is going to be involved in stopping/punishing other types of murder. I have long said if abortion is legal, then all other types of murder should also be legal.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> Adoption is an extremely viable option. As to your first two questions, you ever hear that adage "two wrongs do not make a right"? My original question stands "what makes the life of the baby that is a product of rape or incest any less valuable of a life"? In answer to your last question, the state should only be involved in stopping abortions if the state is going to be involved in stopping/punishing other types of murder. I have long said if abortion is legal, then all other types of murder should also be legal.


Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.

I think you are right. There are always options other than killing the most innocent. Foster care until adoption is better than murder. The state pays for fostering and babies are adopted a lot quicker than older kids.
I've always said something similar to what you say. I'll agree to abortion if I am allowed to abort adults who I think are deserving aborting.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

stevekozak said:


> Adoption is an extremely viable option. As to your first two questions, you ever hear that adage "two wrongs do not make a right"? My original question stands "what makes the life of the baby that is a product of rape or incest any less valuable of a life"? In answer to your last question, the state should only be involved in stopping abortions if the state is going to be involved in stopping/punishing other types of murder. I have long said if abortion is legal, then all other types of murder should also be legal.


I don't disagree, I was playing a little devils advocate. There are more viable options then abortion.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Denton said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
> 
> I think you are right. There are always options other than killing the most innocent. Foster care until adoption is better than murder. The state pays for fostering and babies are adopted a lot quicker than older kids.
> I've always said something similar to what you say. * I'll agree to abortion if I am allowed to abort adults who I think are deserving aborting.*


I love this plan! Can we start in Washington? I think we better plan to be there a while, I have a long list of those who should be aborted. :devil:


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Aborting adults that are politically incorrect is what the left screams for is it not? Trump, Bush, teen wearing a MAGA hat minding his own business, those in fly over country clinging to their guns and Bibles. This is the spoilers slope of exceptions. Compassion for one by killing another is w warped concept. It is as legitimate as a slave counting as 3/5s of a person but having no rights because they are actually property. Abortion only makes sense if the unborn are things, property and not people with mortal souls.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Want to appease the Leftists? Make the term 90yeras.

Then aborting the likes of H-Beast, Schumer, AOC,........... would be O.K.

Now I'm not talking murder here.

Just a big Vacuum, into a wood chipper.

For those who don't realize, this is satire, I don't advocate: murder, torture, killing unborns, killing bad politicians,...........


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> Want to appease the Leftists? Make the term 90yeras.
> 
> Then aborting the likes of H-Beast, Schumer, AOC,........... would be O.K.
> 
> ...


Got it. Everything I've ever said on the internet is satire. Wink.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

KUSA said:


> Got it. Everything I've ever said on the internet is satire. Wink.


It will no save you from the gulag comrade. Da?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

And the Pope weighed in: https://www.foxnews.com/world/pope-francis-abortion-hitman


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## Soft White Overbelly (Jul 13, 2018)

"IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER FOR THAT MAN IF HE HAD NOT BEEN BORN.” – JESUS CHRIST (MARK 14.16)
Of course, Jesus was talking about Judas. However, a particular Christian web page also extended the meaning: "It’s better to not exist than to exist in hell forever. Therefore, it is true for all who will be condemned: it is better for them if they had never been born." If this is true, according to the standard Christian salvation requirements, isn't an individual being born into this world inheriting a huge risk? There is no guarantee that individual will become "saved", as a Christian, by the time of death. What is better, avoiding birth and not existing, and maybe going back to the Creator God, OR, suffering for an eternity in Hell?


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