# Food: Help or not?



## Cellcounter10 (10 mo ago)

The minute you help ONE person with food, water, etc, you are on the hook for ALL the people they know and care about. 
Question: How many meals are you willing to take out of the mouths of your kids or grandkids, to feed others who did not prep, and scoffed at people who did?

This quote is from an ex military prepper l know. What do you guys think? Agree or disagree?


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Ill always help with a meal and water. That's it though. If someone can be an asset to me or us, maybe more. Always water and a small meal. I can always spare that.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I ride the fence on this.
On the one hand, every cup of beans and rice I hand out is one less my family gets.
On the other, I'm one of those gullible "Christian" saps who worships a brown-skinned carpenter as my Savior and God. He has instructed me to give to the least of these, and in doing so, it is giving to him.
What kind of follower would I be if I can't give some rice and beans to my Lord and Savior who accepted ridicule, torture and agonizing death in my stead, which I deserved?
I clearly can't provide to everyone, but with each handout I choose to give, knowledge and warning will be included. "The end is coming. Prepare your souls."
If they survive, they can prepare for their physical sustenance too. But if they think they will take what I have by force, their end may come sooner than originally anticipated. This too will be conveyed, in the most serious and loving manner I can muster.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I view this from a christian prepper perspective 
I will help those that ask - they might get peanut butter and jelly every time they ask but we will help out
I doubt there will be that many that will keep coming back after getting peanut butter or white rice and sweet peas every time

if a person comes to rob or steal or us force they will be met with force.

So yep we will help... and no it will not be coming out of my kids mouths... because we have extra peanut butter and rice 
POST SHTF - the rules to boxing will apply "Protect yourself at all times!"


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## Cellcounter10 (10 mo ago)

Kauboy said:


> I ride the fence on this.
> On the one hand, every cup of beans and rice I hand out is one less my family gets.
> On the other, I'm one of those gullible "Christian" saps who worships a brown-skinned carpenter as my Savior and God. He has instructed me to give to the least of these, and in doing so, it is giving to him.
> What kind of follower would I be if I can't give some rice and beans to my Lord and Savior who accepted ridicule, torture and agonizing death in my stead, which I deserved?
> ...


I agree in principle, but if you feed one, they will leave and bring back 3 more, then 10, then 30, etc. This has been proven in Venezuela, Vietnam etc. 
Even as a Christian, my first duty is to my family. 
The parable of the women who did not prepare by having oil for their lamps, illustrates Jesus opinion on being prepared.


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## wraithofroncollins (11 mo ago)

Cellcounter10 said:


> The minute you help ONE person with food, water, etc, you are on the hook for ALL the people they know and care about.
> Question: How many meals are you willing to take out of the mouths of your kids or grandkids, to feed others who did not prep, and scoffed at people who did?
> 
> This quote is from an ex military prepper l know. What do you guys think? Agree or disagree?


Here is the deal, I am not the SHTF welfare... If you don't prep, you aren't my problem. That said, I will share a meal (may be 2) with someone and send them on their way.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm very torn with this predictament. Besides the fact that person may tell everyone you're a soft touch, and can help them, what happens when you can no longer afford to help. Will they simply overpower you and take what you have. How abouth the young mother coming to the door, asking for a hand out for her hungry child. Only later do you realize she was a scout for a vicious group, who kill you and your family and take everything you have.
As a Christain who has always been ther for others, this is quite the cunundrum! I guess I'll never know until the situation presents itself.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

We live off the beaten path. The chance of a stranger passing by is slim.
I will help my neighbors. And any of our family that shows up. Strangers passing by? A drink of water would not be out of line, but food stuffs? Probably not.


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## wraithofroncollins (11 mo ago)

paraquack said:


> I'm very torn with this predictament. Besides the fact that person may tell everyone you're a soft touch, and can help them, what happens when you can no longer afford to help. Will they simply overpower you and take what you have. How abouth the young mother coming to the door, asking for a hand out for her hungry child. Only later do you realize she was a scout for a vicious group, who kill you and your family and take everything you have.
> As a Christain who has always been ther for others, this is quite the cunundrum! I guess I'll never know until the situation presents itself.


Problem is wondering what if will drive you nuts. The ultimate reality is if I know you, you know to prepare and if I don't... I am more likely to share a meal and move you on. Giving you a third of my pork chop and some green beans, won't attract to much attention.

If you know me and know I got more and come bumming food... Well f- you, I'm not going to feed you come SHTF. I'm more worried about gun preppers and people who know I prep then strangers.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Decision has already been made and god won't be happy.

Reason is by now you have no excuse not to be prepared. Your hand out won't be at my place.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Cellcounter10 said:


> I agree in principle, but if you feed one, they will leave and bring back 3 more, then 10, then 30, etc. This has been proven in Venezuela, Vietnam etc.
> Even as a Christian, my first duty is to my family.
> The parable of the women who did not prepare by having oil for their lamps, illustrates Jesus opinion on being prepared.


As a Christian, your first duty is to the Lord, then your family. When you're sure you've got that priority figured out, then you're good.
The parable of the women and the lamps was intended to illustrate that we must remain prepared for the return of the bridegroom, Christ.
That means far more than just being prepared to eat well.
Jesus described the widow giving her final two coins as offering was far greater than any amount the wealthy gave. She gave away literally everything she had to live on.
Are you willing to give your last meal away in service to your savior? It'll test a man's faith, that's for sure.

Now you know why I'm not cavalier about what I think I'd do. I like to think I'd be a good follower. But I also know I'm a sinner.
Eternity is a long time to reflect on my selfish choices...


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## KellyDude (11 mo ago)

*Biden warns food shortages are 'going to be real' across the globe - *

How much of our food will he ship out of country?


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

I prep for 9 people. There are 3 in my home. I will help my elderly neighbors. I say I will turn away strangers but my past actions do not support that statement. 

I am considering store bought canned veggies to give away. I can always rotate them and give them to the church food bank before they expire.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> As a Christian, your first duty is to the Lord, then your family.


Amen-- but that rule is only for people that know God is ALMIGHTY


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## GodFearingPrepper (Feb 11, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> I ride the fence on this.
> On the one hand, every cup of beans and rice I hand out is one less my family gets.
> On the other, I'm one of those gullible "Christian" saps who worships a brown-skinned carpenter as my Savior and God. He has instructed me to give to the least of these, and in doing so, it is giving to him.
> What kind of follower would I be if I can't give some rice and beans to my Lord and Savior who accepted ridicule, torture and agonizing death in my stead, which I deserved?
> ...


The Lord Jesus said to *"His brethren"*...when that passage is studied in context, He is talking about His brothers and sisters that were being persecuted and attacked by Satan and his goats...

Scripture has been twisted over the years by man for man to make it say what they want it to say....

Matthew 25:31-46
New American Standard Bible
The Judgment

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, *‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of Mine, you did it for Me*.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or as a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [a]take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Paul also clearly states to support the house hold of faith (Christians brethren) and if any is left then you may help the world...

Also Jesus talks about helping those who fell into hard times of no fault of their own...people who have had time to prep and failed to do so...did not heed the words to do so and that falls on them.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

GodFearingPrepper said:


> The Lord Jesus said to *"His brethren"*...when that passage is studied in context, He is talking about His brothers and sisters that were being persecuted and attacked by Satan and his goats...


If you think Jesus was being exclusionary, I dare say you misunderstood his entire ministry.
Matthew 5:42:
"Give to the one who asks you, and do not reject the one who wants to borrow from you."

The things you have stored up are not yours. They are a blessing God has given to you, but they are still his. To deny his gifts you have been blessed with to those who are hungry would defile the blessing itself.


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

Back in the 1930's hobo would "mark" a house, so other hobos would know people living there might give food. Something to consider, if the AC power ever stops some extra manpower might be wanted. Back in the 1930's my grandfather accepted 3 wandering brothers into his house and they grew up fine men. One died in a bomber over France and my grandmother cried like she lost her own son. Rules are easy to make but situations change.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Feeding those in your group, or others you intend to add to your group is part of your survival. 
Feeding a stranger outside your group shows you have an excess others will feel they are entitled to. This will lead to them trying to take what you have. 
If you choose to feed the stranger then be prepared for them to come take what you have. 
Having several catches where you store food may prevent you from starving. Leave only a portion of your food supply accessible and maybe they won't look for more. 
Creating a renewable food source would be the best idea. Not many city people look at your pet rabbits or guinea pigs as food. Both can provide an unnoticed protein source. 
If you have a yard start growing food. Several berry bushes are attractive enough to use in your landscapes. In most climates in the US lots of vegatbles will even survive our winters and keep on growing in the ground and will still be there even after other food has been taken. Potatoes, carrots, turnips, beats, kale, spinach, celery, sun chokes, asparagus, as well as berry bushes and fruit trees would all continue to survive. 
Learn what plants you can eat that are grown in your area. Every one has rose bushes. Did you know they are edible? What about dandelion and other weeds in your yard?


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Cellcounter10 said:


> I agree in principle, but if you feed one, they will leave and bring back 3 more, then 10, then 30, etc. This has been proven in Venezuela, Vietnam etc.
> Even as a Christian, my first duty is to my family.
> The parable of the women who did not prepare by having oil for their lamps, illustrates Jesus opinion on being prepared.


I would give food to someone who asks, but of course I would let him know that I'm just sharing what *little* I have.
He doesn't have to know that I prepped for this.

And, if it comes to having many people coming to us - how can I turn them away empty-handed if I have something to give?
Perhaps, in helping those in need - that's the best way to prepare my "lamp."


Furthermore, that kind of _survival event_ could prove to be the biggest test to a Christian.

_ *"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink," *_

If we can prepare for our physical needs, we should be _more prepared_ to keep that _lamp_ lighted for the coming of the Bridegroom - after all, this life on earth is only temporary.
We should prepare more for what would be for all eternity.

_RELY ON THE LORD._ He knows what we need, and He knows what's best for us.


Christian parents had taught their children about God. About Christianity.
All the more important to show our discipleship to the children, by our example.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

GodFearingPrepper said:


> The Lord Jesus said to *"His brethren"*...when that passage is studied in context, He is talking about His brothers and sisters that were being persecuted and attacked by Satan and his goats...
> 
> Scripture has been twisted over the years by man for man to make it say what they want it to say....
> 
> ...


And yet..................... Jesus came and died for all mankind. Sinners all.


If two people come to us at the same time, one is a Christian and the other is an atheist - should we give food only to the Christian, and turn the atheist away?

I'm also thinking of the prodigal son, who had abused and misused grace that was given to him, and yet was warmly welcomed by his Father.
I'm thinking of the non-Christian among us - who could be the _"stranger_" among us.
I'm also thinking of the loaves of bread and fishes that fed 5,000.
Perhaps, the seemingly hopeless event of survival, is the most opportune time to speak of Christ and of hope, to those who do not know Him.


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## One Shot (Oct 25, 2021)

I'm on the same page as tirednurse.


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## bsemler (Mar 6, 2018)

Only taking care of Famliy that lives with me and few close friends . not helping anyone that not helping them selfs now


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

"You want food? What's in it for me?"


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## GodFearingPrepper (Feb 11, 2020)

charito said:


> And yet..................... Jesus came and died for all mankind. Sinners all.
> 
> 
> If two people come to us at the same time, one is a Christian and the other is an atheist - should we give food only to the Christian, and turn the atheist away?
> ...


Wrong it says He will save His people from their sins...He did not die for all, that is false teaching at it finest and if you believe what you just said, you will searching out the preacher in hell that lied to you...


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## GodFearingPrepper (Feb 11, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> If you think Jesus was being exclusionary, I dare say you misunderstood his entire ministry.
> Matthew 5:42:
> "Give to the one who asks you, and do not reject the one who wants to borrow from you."
> 
> The things you have stored up are not yours. They are a blessing God has given to you, but they are still his. To deny his gifts you have been blessed with to those who are hungry would defile the blessing itself.


I did not say I would not help the poor, but first I commanded to help the house hold of faith and if anything left over I may help the poor pagans...

You sir, can give all you want, but your good works are only works of the flesh and not of the Lord...

Further more the passage you quote is when Christ is speaking to the Jews...does not anyone study the word of God any longer..or do they just regurgitate the modern day Pharisee in the pagan pulpit....


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## GodFearingPrepper (Feb 11, 2020)

Now for some biblical truth as to why we are headed as a nation down this path...

This country is systemically evil...and lets ask why is evil abounding...the answer might surprise you...read on if you dare...

Unless this country returns to fearing the Lord God...you ain't gonna see what we deem as normal...

Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

“The church is the moral compass of society.”
John Adams stated while he was our President, “The church is the moral compass of society.” But in order to remain a true and faithful compass, the church must remain separate and independent of the influences of that society, particularly its civil government. It must be a “free-church.” Should the church become subordinate, or in any way controlled or co-opted by the civil government (a “State-Church” system), it can no longer effectively serve as that society’s moral compass. Unless it is respected, no one will listen to what it has to say. 

Now this does not mean we as a Christian are to not be involved in politics, otherwise we should not be voting or should there be a Christian who holds a political office...this means we are not be influenced by the ways of the world, yet we are to influence the world by being salt and light...

The church had the protection of the First Amendment and yet around 1954 LBJ offered the church free tax exemption, which they had by the first amendment...yet the majority of pastors jumped on board and in doing so they tied there hands and must adhere to what their new master, the state and IRS has deemed appropriate. They can no longer speak out openly against the evil of the day or endorse a God fearing political candidate, before 1954 the church was deeply involved in politics after 1954 and signing up for handcuffs they now risk losing the their assets...."In Caesars Grip" is a book to start with, Peter Kershaw goes in depth with the ins and outs of what it means to be a 501c3 non profit....there is much more, but i will leave you with this so it may stir you and seek the truth of the non profit churches and how the modern day pharisee has placed a muzzle on themselves. do your research and then ask the so called pastor to explain why they needed the protection of the state over the protection of God and watch him try to explain it away....or watch them get HIGHLY upset for you asking question....most pastors today are self appointed hirelings and are only in it for the love of money. Also today the puppets in the pulpit will twist Romans 13 for their agenda...another good area of digging is the FEMA clergy (pastors) And people wonder why God is angry with the world and bringing down His mighty hammer of wrath as the blacksmith pounds the hot iron on the anvil....the children of God have went the way of Balaam...and serve Baal and money.

Deadly Silent....99.9% of churches today are 501c3 churches and they do not serve God....God is removing the lamp stands from more and more dead hypocrite churches, He is calling us back to what we should have never left....the intimate love of Christ that is centered with a home church....and I don't mean taking the building to the home...I mean good ole worship of the Lord that is lead by the Holy Spirit and not the the head of one man standing in the pulpit....I encourage each and every one of my brothers and sisters to read the book "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola....it will set you on a path of where 99% of our current day worship services come from...they are all rooted in the days of the early pagans and their rituals....also read "In Caesars Grip" by Peter Kershaw to see how the puppets of the day that are in the pulpit have muzzled themselves and can no longer call out the evil of the world...all in the name of filthy lucre. Brethren, we have brought the anger of the Lord upon us, we have no one to blame but ourselves....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So Christians want to blame the blm, the homosexuals, the political parties and just about damn near everyone else, but oh don't lay it at the door step of the church...

But yet, I say the blame, lays squarely at the door of the church....the church over the last 60 plus years has become deadly silent in a sinful nation. They no longer speak out and call a sin a sin...yet that would mean they would have to acknowledge the sin in their own buildings...and who is to blame here, I say its the puppet pastor and his flock of goonies, the yes men elders he plants in his synagogue of Satan.

When is the last time you heard a sermon on sin, hell or God's wrath? 99.9% of the services today are a mini rock concert with little three point sermon tossed in....your puppet pastor, the modern day pharisee is feeding your flesh and tickling your ear.

The church today no longer does her job as what she was called to be by the Lord, the salt and light, the salt is tasteless and the light is dim as a one wick candle....yet they blame the heathen world and shake their fist at God.

Until the bride of Christ repents and returns to doing what she is called to do, the Lord will continue to bring down the hammer of His indignation upon His bride as a blacksmith brings down the hammer on the glowing iron on the hardened anvil.

Buckle up boys and girls....Now let me share with you what God directed me to...

Jeremiah 5:14
Therefore, thus says the Lord, the God of hosts,
“Because you have spoken this word,
Behold, I am making My words in your mouth fire
And this people wood, and it will consume them.

Jeremiah 15:6-7
6 “You who have forsaken Me,” declares the Lord,
“You keep going backward.
So I will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you;
I am tired of relenting!
7 “I will winnow them with a winnowing fork
At the gates of the land;
I will bereave them of children, I will destroy My people;
They did not repent of their ways. 

For those who know God, will say this is the Old Testament. Yet I encourage you to turn to Hebrews 10:26-31...John 3:18...John 3:36...just a few in the New Testament...and oh there is so many more I could direct you too...as for the Old Testament, I will direct you to Psalm 9:17...where it speaks of all Nations who forget God...scripture is very plain and direct.

Today you have been warned!!!

Amos 3:6-7
6 If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble?
If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it?
7 Surely the Lord God does nothing Unless He reveals 
His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.

Jeremiah 15:1-2
Judgment Must Come

1 Then the Lord said to me, “Even though Moses and Samuel were to stand before Me, My heart would not be with this people; send them away from My presence and let them go! 2 And it shall be that when they say to you, ‘Where should we go?’ then you are to tell them, ‘Thus says the Lord:

“Those destined for death, to death;
And those destined for the sword, to the sword;
And those destined for famine, to famine;
And those destined for captivity, to captivity.”’

Jeremiah 7:16
16 “As for you, do not pray for this people, and do not lift up cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with Me; for I do not hear you. 

Jeremiah 14:11
11 So the Lord said to me, “Do not pray for the welfare of this people. 

To all my Christian Brethren...read the verse below to see what is in store for the US. 

Deuteronomy 28:43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low.

Due to our iniquities against the Lord God, He has turned us over to evil and wicked men. Repent of your sinful worldly ways and the Lord God may relent on His anger that He is now pouring out upon us.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

GodFearingPrepper said:


> I did not say I would not help the poor, but first I commanded to help the house hold of faith and if anything left over I may help the poor pagans...
> 
> You sir, can give all you want, but your good works are only works of the flesh and not of the Lord...
> 
> Further more the passage you quote is when Christ is speaking to the Jews...does not anyone study the word of God any longer..or do they just regurgitate the modern day Pharisee in the pagan pulpit....


I'll take Christ at his word.
You keep pretending you know what he "actually" meant.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

GodFearingPrepper said:


> Wrong it says He will save His people from their sins...He did not die for all, that is false teaching at it finest and if you believe what you just said, you will searching out the preacher in hell that lied to you...



He died for the sin of mankind (that's everybody) - that we may all have the opportunity to eternal life with God.
Of course, we have to go by the requirement - through Christ.

Those who will be saved will be those who has faith in Christ - therefore- of course, that means His disciples. His people!
But *the invitation is given to all!*

Anyway - we don't know who'll be saved or not. The atheist we debate with today might become a brother someday......and, that theist who debates with atheists could become an apostate in the end. 🤷


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The time to help others is when I _can_ help, because I have the resources to help. That's charity. I think I'm still in that time now. But when famine hits hard, it's gonna be a different story. God's given me a family to take care of. He hasn't given me the whole neighborhood to care for. 

Sorry, but I'm not Mother Teresa nor am I a socialist. ' The ownership of possessions is not contrary to God's law'--St Thomas Aquinas. Unless one has taken religious vows, I don't believe one is morally obligated to that sort of poverty.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Cellcounter10 said:


> Even as a Christian, my first duty is to my family.


Is that really your FIRST DUTY


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

This is not to judge others........................ but just something to think about as Christians.

We don't really know exactly how we'll react in life-changing situations. Our perspective can change.
Like, a healthy person last year could be thinking differently today if he's now terminally ill and dying soon.

I suppose a young parent wouldn't be thinking the same way as an old person like me. And, I have no children of my own to worry about.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

GodFearingPrepper said:


> Now for some biblical truth as to why we are headed as a nation down this path...
> 
> This country is systemically evil...and lets ask why is evil abounding...the answer might surprise you...read on if you dare...
> 
> ...



How do you know we're not being tested?

Wouldn't the devil exploit - or, even cause a dire situation - that he may be able to tempt us?
I'm thinking of how the devil had tempted Jesus when He was hungry in the desert.
What was Jesus' response? _Man shall not live on bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. ._




*Matthew 24
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 
*


He did mention something about running the "good race" to the end?


*Galatians 5
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? *


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

GodFearingPrepper said:


> Further more the passage you quote is when Christ is speaking to the Jews...does not anyone study the word of God any longer..or do they just regurgitate the modern day Pharisee in the pagan pulpit....


That passage is from the *NEW* TESTAMENT. Not the OLD.


It had extended as well to us, just as salvation has now also become our inheritance - thru the grace of God.
We are co-inheritors along with the Jews.

What is spoken to the Jews by Christ, also applies to us.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

GodFearingPrepper said:


> Jeremiah 7:16
> 16 “As for you, do not pray for this people, and do not lift up cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with Me; for I do not hear you.
> 
> Jeremiah 14:11
> ...



When the Lord God was telling his people not to pray for the welfare of THIS People - it was for a certain time and a certain people

Most of your old testament quotes are directed at a certain people for a certain time

As to hard times in the end.. all you need to do is read Matthew 24!

As to how we treat people... we follow the 2 greatest commandments... and Jesus was clear about who are neighbor is!!!!!


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

Maine-Marine said:


> When the Lord God was telling his people not to pray for the welfare of THIS People - it was for a certain time and a certain people
> 
> Most of your old testament quotes are directed at a certain people for a certain time
> 
> ...


^^^this....people basically telling people not to concern themselves with what is written in the old testament.....because only the new one matters....


Funny thing though, the old testament is still there and still gives messages and guides us...we are to believe it does not matter and it was written for people of a diffetent time....

Same as one of the preachers in my town that said we should not concern ourselves with the Book of Revelation because it was written for the people of that time who were oppressed and persecuted 

Same with people changing verses and meanings to justify their sinfull lives....


But al these things brings clarity to these VERY IMPORTANT VERSES:

Matthew 7:21-23

King James Version

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Karoobow said:


> ^^^this....people basically telling people not to concern themselves with what is written in the old testament.....because only the new one matters....
> 
> 
> Funny thing though, the old testament is still there and still gives messages and guides us...we are to believe it does not matter and it was written for people of a diffetent time....
> ...


You my friend are a biblical illiterate!!!!

I was not telling people to disregarded the Old Testament.. I was pointing out you were misusing scripture and taking it out of context!!!!

Instead of defending your poor use of scripture..you build a straw man argument of things i did not say and then argue against them


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

charito said:


> What is spoken to the Jews by Christ, also applies to us.


The 10 commandments are not for the gentile followers of Jesus...any attempt to enforce Torah requirements on non-Jews (Christians) is a serious misunderstanding of the Biblical narrative.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> The 10 commandments are not for the gentile followers of Jesus...any attempt to enforce Torah requirements on non-Jews (Christians) is a serious misunderstanding of the Biblical narrative.


I'm gonna go ahead and stop you there.

There is so much nuance with the way the original Hebrew of the Old Testament explained things, that we often don't get the full picture when it's been translated to English.
Yes, there are parts of the 10 commandments that specifically applied to the people of Israel. Notably, "remember the sabbath and keep it holy". Paul clarified this in his own writings, explaining that this commandment was intended to remind the Jewish people of their promise to God for delivering them from bondage. As Paul notes, this history is irrelevant to the Gentile. Thus the promise from God to the people of Israel is also irrelevant. Paul states that all Jews must follow this commandment, period, as it is a pact with God. However, a Gentile is not bound by this commandment, though they should never be admonished for not following it. If they do, or do not, it is still good.
I'm sure other parts of the 10 commandments were also likened more to Jewish Law than to spiritual commands, but any that were reinforced by the teachings of The Messiah should still apply to ALL of his followers.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and stop you there.
> 
> There is so much nuance with the way the original Hebrew of the Old Testament explained things, that we often don't get the full picture when it's been translated to English.
> Yes, there are parts of the 10 commandments that specifically applied to the people of Israel. Notably, "remember the sabbath and keep it holy". Paul clarified this in his own writings, explaining that this commandment was intended to remind the Jewish people of their promise to God for delivering them from bondage. As Paul notes, this history is irrelevant to the Gentile. Thus the promise from God to the people of Israel is also irrelevant. Paul states that all Jews must follow this commandment, period, as it is a pact with God. However, a Gentile is not bound by this commandment, though they should never be admonished for not following it. If they do, or do not, it is still good.
> I'm sure other parts of the 10 commandments were also likened more to Jewish Law than to spiritual commands, but any that were reinforced by the teachings of The Messiah should still apply to ALL of his followers.


You can stop me -BUT you have to argue with the early church fathers, Paul, and The New Covenant established by Jesus...

I refuse to be a Foolish Galatian









What is the New Covenant? | GotQuestions.org


What is the New Covenant? How is the New Covenant related to premillennialism and amillennialism?



www.gotquestions.org


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> You can stop me -BUT you have to argue with the early church fathers, Paul, and The New Covenant established by Jesus...
> 
> I refuse to be a Foolish Galatian
> 
> ...


That's an excellent link.
But I'm not arguing the Old vs New covenant, nor in favor of the entire law of Moses.
I'm specifically taking issue with your statement: "The 10 commandments are not for the gentile followers of Jesus."
While I agree, relying on the words of Paul concerning the sabbath, that not ALL commandments apply to non-Jews, I cannot agree that the 10 as a whole do not apply. Perhaps you did not intend to imply such.
Jesus came to fulfil the law. To make it "full". He did not come to abolish it.
If we accept that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, we must assume his teachings apply to the same. What he taught applied to Jews and non-Jews. The Mosaic Law (everything derived by Moses in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) was no longer the standard by which a person was held against for salvation. Instead, salvation now comes through grace, but grace is only extended to those who follow. One cannot justify their own claims of salvation while committing acts of murder, as an example.

Jesus specifically notes some of the commandments in his sermon on the mount, and when confronted by the wealthy ruler.

But he also expands upon other parts of the Mosaic law which alter it from its original understanding.
For example, Matthew 15: (when asked why his disciples ate with unwashed hands, Jesus replied)
11 "What goes into a man's mouth does not make him `unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him `unclean.'" 
...
17 "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body?
18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man `unclean.'
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. (personal note: a few of the Commandments specifically addressed)
20 These are what make a man `unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him `unclean.'"

I know this has been a LOOONG debated topic by people much smarter than me. That's why I default to the words of Christ. He will be my arbiter on the day of judgement.
Where Christ saw fit to draw a direct correlation back to the Commandments, I too will draw such a correlation and do my best to follow them.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> You can stop me -BUT you have to argue with the early church fathers, Paul, and The New Covenant established by Jesus...
> 
> I refuse to be a Foolish Galatian
> 
> ...



*The New Covenant is also mentioned in Ezekiel 36:26–27, “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” 
Ezekiel lists several aspects of the New Covenant here: a new heart, a new spirit, the indwelling Holy Spirit, and true holiness.
The Mosaic Law could provide none of these things (see Romans 3:20). 








What is the New Covenant? | GotQuestions.org


What is the New Covenant? How is the New Covenant related to premillennialism and amillennialism?



www.gotquestions.org




*
The Mosaic Law does not give all those because it preceded the Messiah.
The coming and fulfillment of the Messiah made the difference.
Thus, we have to have faith in Christ to have the Christ/Spirit in us.

He still speaks of decrees and laws - His laws. They do not deviate from the 10 Commandments.
He said, _I have not come to abolish the law._

The Laws of Christ still reflect the laws of the 10 Commandments since murder, adultery, theft, would still be a sin.
Christ even expanded what adultery would mean - simply lusting with your eyes would constitute adultery.

All are repeated by Christ in the New Testament, except the observation of the Sabbath day.
We should worship/glorify God everyday! We don't have to go to a building or a special place to do that.

*John 4
21 Jesus *said to her, “Believe Me, woman, that a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 
22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, because salvation is from the Jews.
23 But a time is coming, and even now has arrived, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth;
for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. *

Jesus spoke to the woman at the well. And to the people in her village. Non-Jews! John 4.


However, with enduring faith in Jesus, and with Christ indwelling in us, would help steer us away from sin.
With Christ in us - the 10 Commandments are no longer the 10 Commandments.......but instead, they've become a _*"promise"*_ by a Christian.
And, we strive to keep the promise:

_I will have no other god. 
I shall not murder. I shall not commit adultery. etc.., _

Jesus had summed them up - _love of God, love of neighbour._


*In place of the Old Testament law, Christians are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). *
*If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: **“All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments”** (Matthew 22:40). 
Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” *
*and “loving your neighbor.” 








Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law? | GotQuestions.org


Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law? Does the Mosaic Law apply to Christians?



www.gotquestions.org




*


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> That's an excellent link.
> But I'm not arguing the Old vs New covenant, nor in favor of the entire law of Moses.
> I'm specifically taking issue with your statement: "The 10 commandments are not for the gentile followers of Jesus."
> While I agree, relying on the words of Paul concerning the sabbath, that not ALL commandments apply to non-Jews, I cannot agree that the 10 as a whole do not apply. Perhaps you did not intend to imply such.
> ...


to fulfill means to complete.. like in a contract - if a contract is fulfilled it means that the contract is no longer needed - a fulfilled contract is worthless and no longer needed 
In Jeremiah 31 the Lord is clear HE will establish a NEW covenant..so the old is no longer .. He are no under 2 covenants

As you said "The Mosaic Law (everything derived by Moses in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) was no longer the standard by which a person was held against for salvation. Instead, salvation now comes through grace..."

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.


5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.


7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through *faith,* preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


So I will state again.. the 10 commandments at not a yoke for gentiles (or any follower of Jesus Christ)...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

charito said:


> *Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. *


I really am not trying to be picky..but 

irrelevant

ĭ-rĕl′ə-vənt
*adjective*

Unrelated to the matter being considered.
Not related, not applicable, unimportant, not connected.
having no bearing on or connection with the subject at issue
The 10 commandments are not applicable to Followers of Jesus... Yes we know about them, and we know that they fall under the 2 great commands... but you can either live by them and be condemned or live for Jesus and have life

and thats all i have to say about that


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## wraithofroncollins (11 mo ago)

I just want to add something... Jesus summed up the law in 2 commandments; love God with all your heart and love thy neighbor as you love yourself. In this, lay all of the law...

If we walk in the Spirit everyday is a Sabbath Day where we give our troubles to God and, we don't need to be told to not murder, steal, commit adultery, etc. because we have love for each other. So if we are to be the salt of the Earth (the "preserver" of the Earth) we must do so in faith. Just because I run out of beans feeding someone else, doesn't mean God will let me starve and I have to have faith in that. 

I am a prepper sure and a Christian also, and being prepper is to me being a Christian. I am called to prepare for the returning of Christ. God tells us to prepare and so I prepare... What no one gets is that the Old Testament isn't gone, its still relevant which is why God said in Isiah 46:10 that he "tells us the end in the beginning." While ya'll are arguing over verses and interpretations of scripture you're missing something... What does God Command of you? To love him and to love others? What verses counter that Commandment by God/Jesus..?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> to fulfill means to complete.. like in a contract - if a contract is fulfilled it means that the contract is no longer needed - a fulfilled contract is worthless and no longer needed
> In Jeremiah 31 the Lord is clear HE will establish a NEW covenant..so the old is no longer .. He are no under 2 covenants
> 
> As you said "The Mosaic Law (everything derived by Moses in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) was no longer the standard by which a person was held against for salvation. Instead, salvation now comes through grace..."
> ...


Do you truly believe that you can continually violate any of the commandments which Christ specifically addressed, and still be saved, as if they aren't violations against God?
Can you steal from your neighbor every day, considering it no violation since you believe the commandments do not apply, and still see the kingdom of heaven?
If the commandments don't apply, you won't feel a need to ask for forgiveness for your actions. Murder, adultery, lying, idol worship... none of these are violations against God anymore?
Is this really what you believe?


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Cellcounter10 said:


> The minute you help ONE person with food, water, etc, you are on the hook for ALL the people they know and care about.
> Question: How many meals are you willing to take out of the mouths of your kids or grandkids, to feed others who did not prep, and scoffed at people who did?
> 
> This quote is from an ex military prepper l know. What do you guys think? Agree or disagree?


None. My obligation is to my family and a very, very few close friends. By now, if someone isn't doing at least some prepping, they're on their own. I might barter some food or other supplies but no handouts. Once that's started, word will be spread fast and you won't be safe any longer.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Do you truly believe that you can continually violate any of the commandments which Christ specifically addressed, and still be saved, as if they aren't violations against God?
> Can you steal from your neighbor every day, considering it no violation since you believe the commandments do not apply, and still see the kingdom of heaven?
> If the commandments don't apply, you won't feel a need to ask for forgiveness for your actions. Murder, adultery, lying, idol worship... none of these are violations against God anymore?
> Is this really what you believe?


you are better then that.. you know I did not say any of that... nor did Paul when he said we are not under the law...

it is clear that in the bible
Romans 2:14 
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.

Never did I say you could steal, murder etc..... did I.. I challenge you to find where i said that -- !!!!!

the law pointed to Christ... it was to show that nobody could keep them ..so why are you still pushing them...are you still keeping the jewish sabbath?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> you are better then that.. you know I did not say any of that... nor did Paul when he said we are not under the law...
> 
> it is clear that in the bible
> Romans 2:14
> ...


You said "The 10 commandments are not for the gentile followers of Jesus".
My response was simply, some are.
"I default to the words of Christ. He will be my arbiter on the day of judgement. Where Christ saw fit to draw a direct correlation back to the Commandments, I too will draw such a correlation and do my best to follow them."

You either accept that you are indeed still following the commandments by following the teachings of Christ, or you are not.
Then, be grateful you are no longer held in judgement by them.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A couple of you mentioned 'we really don't know what we'll do until the situation occurs.' May I suggest you think it through now, very carefully and decide?

Then make sure your family or group knows the rules, and just stick to your guns. Because it'd probably be really bad for moral to go switching the rules in the middle of the game. 

If you feel you need to make a change to the 'do we feed the neighbors?' rule, wouldn't it be better to do so later? Like a_fter_ you get hit up by the hungry beggar?

Then everyone in your family or group knows the new game plan.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The problem is: the dividing line between helping and not isn't clearly defined. Things may be bad, but you may still decide to help others. But if things get worse, you may stop the charity. So it's not a matter of whether or not you're willing to help, it's a matter of what conditions must be met to make that choice?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

This is a tough call. The answer is biblical. A man that does not take care of him own family is worse than a non believer. And when the word gets out you have when others do not, you will not have for long or you will have to resort to violence to keep it. JMHO


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## KellyDude (11 mo ago)

The news is rife with kind people robbed/killed by those they helped or just allowed in/near their homes: tree trimmers, delivery people etc.
I will be on 100% lockdown in any rough scenario and hesitant to allow strangers to approach.
The 'kindness to strangers' thing will take a back seat.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

KellyDude said:


> The news is rife with kind people robbed/killed by those they helped or just allowed in/near their homes: tree trimmers, delivery people etc.
> I will be on 100% lockdown in any rough scenario and hesitant to allow strangers to approach.
> The 'kindness to strangers' thing will take a back seat.


This. All you have to do is look at how people reacted after Katrina, or even just look at the Black Friday sales at Walmart.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

There's quite a difference between "strangers" and people you know who aren't your family.
Would you turn down your fellow parishioners who show up to your door? Many have said "no", as they consider such people as their brothers and sisters in Christ, and would help them. Great.
Would you turn down long-time friends who don't attend church?
Would you turn down your next door neighbor you've had over-the-fence conversations with for years?

I don't mean to take the position that my supplies become an open market for any and all to help themselves.
But I know I will not be able to turn away long-time friends. I will encourage them to do what they can to avoid that circumstance, and I will discourage their expectations about showing up on my doorstep, as a means to provoke them to greater self-sufficiency.
But I won't be able to look into the faces of their starving children, who I held in my arms the day they were born, and tell them to leave.
It is my strong-held belief that damnation awaits any who possess a heart cold enough to do so.


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## wraithofroncollins (11 mo ago)

I help friends prep and if they don't prep, they are going to become my Doomsday Serfs or, my enemies... No free rides, I will share a meal and send you on your way.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> There's quite a difference between "strangers" and people you know who aren't your family.
> Would you turn down your fellow parishioners who show up to your door? Many have said "no", as they consider such people as their brothers and sisters in Christ, and would help them. Great.
> Would you turn down long-time friends who don't attend church?
> Would you turn down your next door neighbor you've had over-the-fence conversations with for years?
> ...


That's completely up to you, of course. But how how many friends and for how long can you keep feeding them? If they have no food and things are bad enough, you know they'll be back looking for more.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> That's completely up to you, of course. But how how many friends and for how long can you keep feeding them? If they have no food and things are bad enough, you know they'll be back looking for more.


If things are "bad enough", telling them no won't suffice either.
They're my good friends. I'd rather feed them than shoot them.
You?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> If things are "bad enough", telling them no won't suffice either.
> They're my good friends. I'd rather feed them than shoot them.
> You?


The time to help is now. There's people right here in my community who don't have enough money to buy food to make it to the end of the month. Because God blessed me with the ability to put food back for my family, I donate food anonymously.
You?
But when the really hard times come, we'll have no choice but to hunker down and lay low. So people had best not come knocking at my door.

ETA: Do you know what real hunger is? We living in America don't really know. In the bible, when famine hit, they started eating their babies. I hope I never see or live through such times., because starvation drives people crazy. Have you ever read about the Donner Party?

I have no romantic ideas about being able to feed the entire community. It'd be nice, but it's just not reality.


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## Mr. Bitey (9 mo ago)

Annie said:


> The time to help is now.





Annie said:


> But when the really hard times come, we'll have no choice but to hunker down and lay low. So people had best not come knocking at my door.





Annie said:


> I have no romantic ideas about being able to feed the entire community. It'd be nice, but it's just not reality.


+1 on all of this. I am not paranoid and honestly doubt in my remaining years I'll ever pull the trigger on INCH, this is just a hobby for me. None the less, they still call me paranoid and laugh at me. They've no interest in being prepared for a road side break down let alone chaos, empty shelves, and survival skills. That is the number one reason most don't even know where my land is. You are on your own if it happens. Sorry, not sorry - I will sleep like a baby.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> The time to help is now. There's people right here in my community who don't have enough money to buy food to make it to the end of the month. Because God blessed me with the ability to put food back for my family, I donate food anonymously.
> You?
> But when the really hard times come, we'll have no choice but to hunker down and lay low. So people had best not come knocking at my door.
> 
> ...


Yep yep, I get all that....
But the reality most don't want to face is, will you use force against friends when they know you have food and want it?

I'm asking a very pointed question, because it _could_ become a reality someday, and you better have an answer now that you can live with then.
Will you shoot your good friend (not a stranger) dead if they try to break into your home to take your food to feed their starving kids?
Or
Will you feed them to avoid the issue?

I will feed them.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> Yep yep, I get all that....
> But the reality most don't want to face is, will you use force against friends when they know you have food and want it?
> 
> I'm asking a very pointed question, because it _could_ become a reality someday, and you better have an answer now that you can live with then.
> ...


Hubby sounds like Annie these days, and I sound more like you.
Oh boy.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Yep yep, I get all that....
> But the reality most don't want to face is, will you use force against friends when they know you have food and want it?
> 
> I'm asking a very pointed question, because it _could_ become a reality someday, and you better have an answer now that you can live with then.
> ...


We've already got enough people to feed. If a true famine happens in my lifetime, I'm for bringing our extended family into our home and shutting the door, as God did for Noah on the Ark. If someone tries to break in, they'll be treated like the robber they truly are. I know this is a hard thing to say, but, that's how it is.

The only one who can veto that choice is my man. I hope he wouldn't.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> We've already got enough people to feed. If a true famine happens in my lifetime, I'm for bringing our extended family into our home and shutting the door, as God did for Noah on the Ark. If someone tries to break in, they'll be treated like the robber they truly are. I know this is a hard thing to say, but, that's how it is.
> 
> The only one who can veto that choice is my man. I hope he wouldn't.


You'll potentially kill a long time friend who means you no direct harm but needs to feed their children.
I hope the Annie who answers that way now can live with the Annie who can or can't actually do that later. And that her family can too.

A stranger should expect hostility, but I will not kill a good friend.
If greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for a friend, how could I kill them?
It won't ever escalate to them having to break in. They will be brought in.
I can live with this, for however many fewer days it will mean.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

If things are really that bad, that you're made to take on extra people to feed, you'll be feeding them for the duration of the chastement. And as sure as the sun comes up, I betcha you'll have more "friends" lining up to be fed the next day. People who were foolish enough not to prepare.

If you can carry that burden--and personally I doubt it--but God bless you. You're a good, kind hearted man for intending to. But I can't delude myself into thinking I have no limitations, and anyway I don't believe God expects that of me.


> You'll potentially kill a long time friend who means you no direct harm but needs to feed their children.


Which is why it's probably best to warn your sensible friends they're responsible for preparing for themselves, or say nothing at all to the foolish ones about prepping.




> I can live with this, for however many fewer days it will mean.


If anyone of us were starving, what would we do? As I've mentioned before starving people do horrible things, unless they're extremely, extremely holy. Not many of us are that holy.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> If things are really that bad, that you're made to take on extra people to feed, you'll be feeding them for the duration of the chastement. And as sure as the sun comes up, I betcha you'll have more "friends" lining up to be fed the next day. People who were foolish enough not to prepare.
> 
> If you can carry that burden--and personally I doubt it--but God bless you. You're a good, kind hearted man for intending to. But I can't delude myself into thinking I have no limitations, and anyway I don't believe God expects that of me.
> 
> ...


I personally doubt you'll pull the trigger on your friends.
You've never killed a person, and seeing a friend's face at the end of your muzzle isn't something you've actually prepared yourself for, despite what you may think.
We need to try our best to plan for reality. Thinking we'll do one thing, and then realizing in that moment that we can't, will be a crushing experience that will side swipe us and leave us even more vulnerable.

I did mention that I am doing my best to warn people now. I don't want them showing up with a hand out.
But I've faced the reality of that situation. I'm not sure you truly have.
They won't come with guns in hand threatening your life. They'll come holding their children in their arms and making it clear they will take your food if you won't give it to them.
I don't believe you're so callous as to respond to that with deadly force. Better to come to terms with that now, and have a more workable plan, than pretending you'll kill them and their children and deal with the consequences.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Love your neighbor as yourself.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

@Kauboy
@Annie
@Maine-Marine

Mind you.....there's this verse:

*1 Tim 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.*


So, _if we know that there's famine_........... are we expected to give away food to others outside of the family?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

BTW and for the record, I never said I'd shoot someone who was trying to break into my home. The only way I'd pull my gun out is if my life was being threatened.

ETA




__





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> .........
> As a legal concept, "self-defense" is what we call a "legal justification," or "affirmative defense." It means that you did commit the act at issue, but that you had a certain basis or reason to act in such a manner, such that you cannot be found criminally or civilly liable. Here, the burden of proof is on the Defendant to show that said defense applies to his case.
> The first thing Defendants need to prove is that they tried to exercise their "duty to retreat." If somebody tries to attack you, the law mandates that you try to get away, rather than fight back, if this is at all possible. That said, the "duty to retreat" does not apply if you are coming to the rescue of a third party.
> The second thing Defendants need to prove when arguing self-defense is that he had an honest and reasonable belief that the force he used was immediately necessary. This means the Defendant had to believe that illegal force was going to be used against him at the time he (the Defendant) used the force. You can't be punched in the face by Mr. X one day and then come back a week later, punch Mr. X in the face and claim "self-defense." The issue of immediacy, here, is paramount, as is the concept of having an honest and reasonable belief. If a petite person was slapping a large prizefighter, the prizefighter (due to his size and strength) cannot have an honest or reasonable belief that he needed to pummel and knock-out the petite person in order to escape danger.
> ...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> BTW and for the record, I never said I'd shoot someone who was trying to break into my home. The only way I'd pull my gun out is if my life was being threatened.
> 
> ETA
> 
> ...


My apologies.
I jumped to the logical conclusion of my own state (with a castle doctrine law) when you stated the following:
"If someone tries to break in, they'll be treated like the robber they truly are."
I'll leave it to you to know where this treatment ends for your situation.

@charito, I've made no mention of denying my family anything.
But Christ expects me to learn a valuable lesson from the parable of the good Samaritan regarding who to consider my neighbor.
The Samaritan owed the robbed and beaten man nothing, but took care of him without expecting reward or repayment.
While two others, who should have known better, walked by, the man who would be looked upon poorly by other Jews stopped and sacrificed his own time and money for a man he didn't know.

James also reminds us that the pure and undefiled purpose of religion (practicing what we preach) is to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep ourselves unpolluted by the world.

I cannot consider the entirety of scripture, and come away with the idea that the Lord expects me to only look after me and mine while others starve.
The core teaching of the scriptures is that sacrifice for the undeserving is literally the highest good.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

charito said:


> @Kauboy
> @Annie
> @Maine-Marine
> 
> ...


Yes, you are expected to do that. 

Who is your neighbor, who is your brother, mother, ????

The issue is that some people think that staying alive is worth more then showing love.

now also bear in mind there is a difference between providing what is wanted and what is needed... 

and frankly 1Tim 5:8 has nothing to do with disasters and has EVERYTHING to do with taking care of WIDOWS!!!!! a widow who had family should have family take care of here..not the church


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Yes, you are expected to do that.
> 
> Who is your neighbor, who is your brother, mother, ????
> 
> ...



Yes the paragraph talks about widows but _that particular line_ is not confined to it. It refers to someone "his own," and "those of his household."


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

charito said:


> @Kauboy
> @Annie
> @Maine-Marine
> 
> ...


I think the Lord knows a person's heart better than we could. The scripture reads, 'does not provide." Does that mean 'they can't provide' or 'they won't provide?' Probably it's the latter. Sometimes there's situations where people get laid off and/or they develop health problems. Ideally, God provides us with family to help in such instances.

If it's that a person won't work because they're lazy, that's a whole different thing. I'm thinking that's who Paul's writing about.

Not far from where I live there's homeless people who camp out in the woods. I can't bring them into my home. Where's their family? Or have they gotten what they deserved? I don't know... But there's a limit to what other people here in town can do.

We've already got extended family members we're helping out here. I believe God expects us to take care of family to the extent we can.

But I can leave food off in the food pantry box at church. There's churches right here in town that feed hungry people. It's important to know our limitations.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

charito said:


> Yes the paragraph talks about widows but _that particular line_ is not confined to it. It refers to someone "his own," and "those of his household."





charito said:


> Yes the paragraph talks about widows but _that particular line_ is not confined to it. It refers to someone "his own," and "those of his household."


notice verses before talk about widows and verses after talk about widows.... what is the topic widows!!!! notice verse 4 talks about the family taking care of widows

5 Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, 2 older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.

3 Give proper recognition to those *widows* who are really in need. 4 But if a* widow* has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. 5 The *widow *who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help. 6 But the* widow *who lives for pleasure is dead even while *she lives*. 7 *Give the people these instructions, so that no one may be open to blame*. 8 _Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever._

9 No* widow* may be put on the list of widows unless *she *is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, 10 and is well known for *her *good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the Lord’s people, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds.

*This teaching is not about feeding your family members before you feed others... this teaching is about taking care of widows in your family and NOT forcing the church to take care of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## CC Pereira (9 mo ago)

I think it depends on whether or not you have enough to survive AND share. I also would like to point out that storing some dry nuts, seeds, grains, beans, and legumes, is a good idea for SHTF times, because they can be a great source of concentrated nutrition, and they can be grown into sprouts, microgreens, grasses, nuts, seeds, grains, beans, and legumes. Some sprouts can be grown in days, with limited resources. So maybe hand out a bag of dry sproutables ... or a chia pet ... until you run out. Keep what you need, and share what you can ... with love, and without religious discrimination.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> notice verses before talk about widows and verses after talk about widows.... what is the topic widows!!!! notice verse 4 talks about the family taking care of widows
> 
> 5 Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, 2 older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.
> 
> ...



*1 Tim 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.


"THOSE of his household."*

They're all widows?


_Household_ means a domestic unit.

They don't even have to be family. A servant or a slave living with you, would be a member of your household.

That line had shifted from only just about widows.
It refers to anyone living under your roof - under your protection.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

charito said:


> *1 Tim 5:8
> But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, if I deny my wife, my children, my parents, widows or orphans or not, and instead give their portion to someone else instead, I'm not only a terrible steward of the family God has blessed me with, but a terrible man in general.
But I'm not talking about that.
I'm giving my family what they need. I'm also aware that I will not be able to turn good friends away.
The conflict seems to be with the idea that what I might give to a friend early on will be something I cannot give to my family later, after giving them everything they need.
That is true. But how does that differ from now? If the justification is that what I do in the present will deny my family something in the future, that is literally what we all do every day.
The money I spend on me now is money I won't have available to spend on them later. If I'm doing that while forcing them to go without, I'm a terrible person. However, if I ensure they have everything they need, and even want, then what more is expected?
The future is unknown. The present is apparent.
Not giving food/water to a friend in the present could lead to their death in the immediate future. It's a choice made with a highly likely known outcome.
Giving food/water to them will keep them alive in the present. It _could_ mean less for my family later on. That's why I plan to have sustainable food supplies, so that the future is brighter for my family, AND I can still help good friends deal with the transition to the new world. I keep a friend who is already willing to go to great lengths for me in good times, and now know they have even more incentive to work along side me during the bad times.


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## Karoobow (Mar 12, 2020)

charito said:


> *1 Tim 5:8
> But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
> 
> 
> ...


Agree but thenthere are ALWAYS those people who add MORE to this HOUSEHOLD....."adding on to scripture"


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Annie said:


> I think the Lord knows a person's heart better than we could.


Yes.

Just came upon a verse that doesn't talk about the issue we're on about, but it does show we never know exactly how we'd react until the time.
PETER.


*John 13*
*37 Peter *said to Him, “Lord, why can I not follow You right now? I will lay down my life for You.” *
*38 Jesus *replied, “Will you lay down your life for Me? Truly, truly I say to you, a rooster will not crow until you deny Me three times. *


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

charito said:


> *1 Tim 5:8
> But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
> 
> 
> ...


and again you are pulling 1 verse out of a lecture about taking care of widows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AGAIN - *This teaching is not about feeding your family members before you feed others... this teaching is about taking care of widows in your family and NOT forcing the church to take care of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* 

this is not an EITHER OR teaching either family of strangers... NO!!!!! the verses before and after are talking about widows and taking care of them...

this has nothing to do with the debate about feeding your neighbor or the stranger that knocks on your door

here are verses you need to read
Hebrews 13:2 
*Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers*, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Matthew 25:35 
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, *I was a stranger and you welcomed me*,

Leviticus 24:22
You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the Lord your God.”

Deuteronomy 10:19 
Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

Romans 12:13 
Contribute to the needs of the saints and *seek to show hospitality.*

Jeremiah 22:3 
Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the resident alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.

Matthew 25:40 
And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I have to say that I am really enjoying this discussion.
It's caused me to think hard about my perspective and position. 
I hope it's doing the same for everyone else as well. It's good to evaluate ourselves now and then.
We haven't derailed too far into personal attacks, though I know some small barbs have been laid.
I thank you all for keeping this topic civil and open.

Personally, it has solidified my stance.
But it has also motivated me to do more to ensure I can sustain and live up to my own expectations.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Cellcounter10 said:


> I agree in principle, but if you feed one, they will leave and bring back 3 more, then 10, then 30, etc. This has been proven in Venezuela, Vietnam etc.


Like MM said, it would depend on what your feeding them. Many had the same chance and the resources to have their own stuff. They are on their own. Others who did not have the resources I will help. It won't be the meal they would order but rice and beans do have nutritional value.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

My husband thinks marauders would be more of a problem than, say your neighbors in times of severe famine, which for most of us is likely to be true. 

@Kauboy I agree this discussion is very important for those who prepare.


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## wraithofroncollins (11 mo ago)

Annie said:


> My husband thinks marauders would be more of a problem than, say your neighbors in times of severe famine, which for most of us is likely to be true.


Many people think this but, those "marauders" are mostly just criminals and they will be more localized around cities and towns. Historically speaking. Also historically speaking that depends heavily on the event, looters in civil unrest or after social collapse are only going after business (at least initially), civil war/revolution is a different story because your "marauders" might just be socialist-revolutionaries seeking to liberate your stuff for the good of the People. So threats are marginalized by terrain and situations.

In any event, I agree with your husband that other people are a likely greater threat after any SHTF event. Robberies, car jacking, burglary and home invasions are all plausible threats.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

inceptor said:


> Like MM said, it would depend on what your feeding them. *Many had the same chance and the resources to have their own stuff. They are on their own. *Others who did not have the resources I will help. It won't be the meal they would order but rice and beans do have nutritional value.


What about extended family and close friends who could've but didn't prepare? Would you shut the door on them? Not judging, just wondering. This is hard stuff to think about, but should be thought about.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

wraithofroncollins said:


> Robberies, car jacking, burglary and home invasions are all plausible threats.


Entirely plausible. Especially since they are practicing now for the events so they can be good at it. Practice makes perfect, ya know?

I wonder if they have a school for that or is it just on the job training?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Annie said:


> What about extended family and close friends who could've but didn't prepare? Would you shut the door on them? Not judging, just wondering. This is hard stuff to think about, but should be thought about.


_1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever._

I'm prepping for that_. _That's what I face with my family. I will help them but they will also work for it. _

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”_


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

The minute you help ONE person with food, water, etc, you are on the hook for ALL the people they know and care about. 

Your insight actually dates back to "I Love Lucy." Lucy, Desi and the Mertzes were trapped in a shack during a snowstorm, and Lucy was the only one with food. She tried to eat quietly until everyone else heard the chewing and smelled the cheese. It was almost an uprising.

Now I like my biker brothers BUT many of them feel if you have something you must ALWAYS share. And it seems like it's always the same guy or guys with real tears running down their face. They arm themselves with a new gimmick, hoping that some other biker will toss him a fiver. And let's be honest, there's a big difference between brotherhood and thievery.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Twilight Zone... The Shelter.


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## wraithofroncollins (11 mo ago)

inceptor said:


> Entirely plausible. Especially since they are practicing now for the events so they can be good at it. Practice makes perfect, ya know?


Not so much practice... Basic Marxist, Maoist & Guevara revolutionary thinking. They are called Socialist-Democrats for a reason. Everything that has happened has followed the political manipulative scheme laid out by Guevara and picked up by Skulski.

Even the Senate riots was set up to paint the right as violent while allowing the left to seem like they are seeking justice.

Guevara said "In these conditions popular discontent expresses itself in more active forms. An attitude of resistance finally crystallizes in an outbreak of fighting, provoked initially by the conduct of the authorities. Where a government has come into power through some form of popular vote, fraudulent or not, and maintains at least an appearance of constitutional legality, the guerrilla outbreak cannot be promoted, since the possibilities of peaceful struggle have not yet been exhausted. "

And all this was done in the name of a "hijacked election" but the occupied events that were basically low grade paramilitary actions were praised for standing up for civil rights. In the mean time, the senate riots are used to justify the further paramilitary armament of the police.

Which shows you everything you need to know, police unions voted Democrat until this last election. So the left gives them guns and gear, pushes them to "victimize" the criminals, while seeking to use the "criminals" race and religion as a means to demonize the police. So the police become the boogeyman for the far left and the far right. As well as, the scapegoat of the politicians and corrupt courts.

But the left keeps pumping up the far left, and legitimizing its ideas while conservatives circle the wagons tighter and tighter trying to preserve what they have. To me it seems like playing one side against the other to destabilize the society of a nation and drive us into a civil war/socialist revolution. So we are a nation need to either (a) boot up and suit up for war or (b) call in the police or military to remove these wannabe Marxist revolutionaries (ideally with 240Bs in a crossfire position and a couple Mark 19 in support).



inceptor said:


> I wonder if they have a school for that or is it just on the job training?


Its a bit of both, OJT & the university of prison. There are Socialist Militias that are a threat like the New Black Panthers, Antifa and so training for their socialist revolution. Many guerrilla actions start off as crime waves. But as a rule, I prefer to think of it in the more likely terms of potential crime than an all out socialist take over.

Though I wish to leave the country if I can before hand.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

wraithofroncollins said:


> Its a bit of both, OJT & the university of prison. There are Socialist Militias that are a threat like the New Black Panthers, Antifa and so training for their socialist revolution.


I was thinking more along the lines of summer camps. Govt sponsored training in their chosen professions. After all, aren't many of the carjackers, burglars, dealers and such professionals?


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## CC Pereira (9 mo ago)

inceptor said:


> Entirely plausible. Especially since they are practicing now for the events so they can be good at it. Practice makes perfect, ya know?
> 
> I wonder if they have a school for that or is it just on the job training?


Children and young adults are trained for free in California ... according to the laws there, theft is not only acceptable, but consequences amount to an award (such as a pat on the back by society, laws that protect them, whatever is stolen for free, and any profit that can be made from selling stolen goods). Not that the state I live in is much better ... in Oregon, all drugs are in, even if some of them (such as heroin, meth, and fentanyl) can be fatal, even for first time users.


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## One Shot (Oct 25, 2021)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Twilight Zone... The Shelter.


That was one of my favorites, one of the others was Panic in year one (1962) and they had one about a fallout shelter on Quantum Leap called Nuclear Family. I have a hard time sleeping so I get to watch a bunch of old programs and movies.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I thought this was a really good video on the subject.


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