# When things go wrong should I?



## tOPDOG1769 (9 mo ago)

God forbid this country goes into complete craziness, living In SF should my family stay and protect our home or should we go someplace rural. If so where would the best place to go how do you prepare to go someplace rural what supplies would we need radio satellite phone etc?


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## R. Zangier (10 mo ago)

tOPDOG1769 said:


> God forbid this country goes into complete craziness, living In SF should my family stay and protect our home or should we go someplace rural. If so where would the best place to go how do you prepare to go someplace rural what supplies would we need radio satellite phone etc?


So many answers, so little time... Honestly, the preference of placement is: Warm, defendable, and probably somewhere high... Or at least, reasonably hidden. As for supplies, well, honestly the basics would work fine if you worked with your family to organize it. First aid kit, extra water, some kind of dried goods, snack bars or trail mix (or hard candies), good hiking shoes that support the ankle and bridge, sturdy clothing, and of course the know how and training... most of it is camp-skills, like learning how to build a fire from scratch, or knowing what plants to eat and which to avoid... Boy Scout skills.

A vehicle sturdy and utility enough, like some trucks or, if financially available, other modified vehicles designed to get you from A to B. I drive a minivan, so I'm pretty much expecting to stay on any kind of road, but its a great budget vehicle in my opinion. Long story short, sturdy gear, sturdy vehicle, sturdy supplies, and sturdy skill.

And, one of the most overlooked segments I do not see much mentioned on this site, the will to survive! Teach your family that teamwork and vigilance is apocalypse-proof. Learn to depend on another, figure out your valuable skillsets and work upon them, and pull up your bootstraps because it's gonna get rough living in the rural in a SHTF scenario.

Once again, only an opinion, not even guidelines, as there are so many routes and paths in prepping. It's pretty straightforward, but also super complex.


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

If you are living in SF, its already complete craziness !. Get out now while you can !


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## tOPDOG1769 (9 mo ago)

good point lol


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

People planning on leaving the Big City, or even the suburbs, when things get bad and running away to "the country" don't realize there are already people out here. Who don't necessarily want a bunch of new comers around.
And running away to "the woods" presents even bigger problems.

You'd best lay low, don't draw attention to yourselves, and for goodness sakes if you have food and supplies put back, do not tell anyone.


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## R. Zangier (10 mo ago)

Absolute facts... Keep it to yourself.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Unless you're in imminent danger, bunkering in place is your best option. You have the home field advantage, and access to all your preps.


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## tOPDOG1769 (9 mo ago)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Unless you're in imminent danger, bunkering in place is your best option. You have the home field advantage, and access to all your preps.


very true


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Besides, if most of the city slickers head to the hills, they'll leave most of the stuff behind. So that will be easy pickin's for those remaining.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

There really isn't anyplace to go that somebody else isn't already there. Unless your friends or family have a place your SOL. What's the plan just to knock on doors and pray?? Trust me that great waste land out in the country will be the last place you'll want to be searching for a place to live.


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## tOPDOG1769 (9 mo ago)

hmm food for thought


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## KellyDude (11 mo ago)

I'm a geographic malcontent - have lived from California to Maine, Florida to Alaska and many points in between.
So - I've been through the process of researching relocation destinations Many time.
I've liked City-Data.com Forum: Relocation, Moving, General and Local City Discussions in the past.
I hesitate to encourage people to make drastic changes in their living locations a la dense city to rural country; it's very common for them to want to pack up again in short order for the very reasons they didn't live there in the first place.
There is no heaven on Earth - best you can do is decide what's important to you at this stage in your life and where might meet that.
All the '10 best places to *__*' lists are subjective and different and weren't written with YOU in mind, so take everything with a grain of salt.
If you can visit an area for a bit and then Rent a place there to get a handle on how it feels and what the 'bad' areas are, you increase your chances for success.
Also- jettison ALL the crap you can before moving.
Good luck!


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

If shit happens on the 10:00PM news you might have to leave the city by midnight. Unless you have a school bus, there is a limit to what you can carry. You would need to have food, equipment and clothes stockpiled somewhere. When I lived in a big city, I always had a plan and kept food, equipment and ammo stockpiled at a relative's place 50 to 200 miles away. Living out in the country, now the rolls are reversed and I store stuff for friends in a big city.


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## Alteredstate (Jul 7, 2016)

tOPDOG1769 said:


> God forbid this country goes into complete craziness, living In SF should my family stay and protect our home or should we go someplace rural. If so where would the best place to go how do you prepare to go someplace rural what supplies would we need radio satellite phone etc?


I am not trying to pick on you, but the reply above is correct. Get out of s.f. distance buys time. Time buys you options. If you truly need to bug out. By the time you get there it's likely to be inhibited by someone equally desperate. My home is my bugout location. It would require nuclear attack within 25 miles to get me to relocate. And I am rural with no reason for it here. Not even a target of opportunity. 
Sell what you have and get away from Sodom and Gamora.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

If you are planning on leaving I would strongly suggest light and fast. Instead of trying to haul everything get a storage locker, friend or whatever and set up a supply base. This would mean a quite off road capable motorcycle with large fuel capacity. Couple saddle bags and backpack for a couple days supply. So your not sitting in traffic with the rest of the sheep.


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

Chipper has a good point, ever watch a video from a hurricane evac in Houston TX? Traffic gridlock can kill your chance for escape. In a traffic gridlock you might have to WALK out, after you run out of gas.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

When it comes to the debate here today, I must admit, I 'checked out' for several months. Oh, I know all of the attributes, the why's and wherefores, and even which "terminal devices" are probably better than the highly polished knives I have carried for almost 40 years.

I do not believe that "normal people" are of value. Oh, they might act nice, but then the rent is due and the wife splits with a younger man.

I do not believe in magic modern brews--if they work so good, how come that a thousand inventors aren't quick millionaires? 

I do not believe in theft. I didn't steal. However most of my lineage did try to cash in with quick ideas. Most of these guys either wound up in jail or died.

I do believe in motorcycles with over-worked engines. Oh, you can get a bike to cruise like that for twenty years or so. If the guy next to you dies or explodes then consider it a gift from heaven.

Now, I never used to believe in redheads. Yeah, yeah, these gals will kill us all. They will drain us of money, sex or both.

And please take this as a "golden rule." If that redhead takes your car, your motorcycle, your cash and parts of your house, well, my guess you'll be dead before Christmas...


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## GodFearingPrepper (Feb 11, 2020)

tOPDOG1769 said:


> God forbid this country goes into complete craziness, living In SF should my family stay and protect our home or should we go someplace rural. If so where would the best place to go how do you prepare to go someplace rural what supplies would we need radio satellite phone etc?



Firs thing, you say God forbid....to that I say as the Lord's angels told Lot flee to the mountains...you are smack dab in the middle of modern day Sodom...if you are truly of the Lord Jesus Christ, the word tells us to come out of her midst...better to be living in a cave then to be dining and feasting with the *********.


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## Mr. Bitey (9 mo ago)

There are lots of opinions on when to stay, when to go. I have stuff. People will want said stuff when their stuff is gone, and will attempt to take ALL OF IT by any means possible. There is a LOT of bad people in the world and SHTF will bring them all out. In the name of survival, good people will become bad as well in an attempt to survive. I'd rather start the trek to my land _before _people stop helping each other and turn in to animals. While I do plan on making some stocks at home as soon as I move into the new house this summer, I am gone and abandoning it to as close to whatever event caused the evac as possible. Off to the hunting land, off grid, and my plan is more INCH than BO. If things are so bad that I have to leave, I doubt I am going back assuming there is even anything to go back to. I have been practicing the trip for almost ten years now. I've multiple driven routes memorized. I've taken the 3 day, 53mi hike there multiple times with the BOB. I've lived there for the summer, and had extended camping trips there in the dead of winter. I also have an alternate location owned by a family member, although I have yet to try a hike there. IMHO it's best to own land or know someone who does, because there are countless people with BOBs that have no clue how to use them whose plan is to simply "go to the woods" and think that binging "Naked and Afraid" gives them the skills they need to survive. The woods will be filled with ill prepared people that have no clue how to use the gear they bought for that very moment, as well as filled with the aforementioned bad people. I once took a prepper enthusiast friend to my land - he started the hike in brand new boots and his feet were raw by the time he hit camp, he did NOT have clean socks, he tried to start a fire using his flint and a rock, and drank water from the swamp he filtered through just a sock. Fortunately he wasn't sick, and his feet recovered just fine. While I love the guy, I am kinda glad he moved 1800mi away as now I don't worry about him expecting me to save him if SHTF. He was the last "new" person I took to my land.

My plan is not perfect, and no one's is as we have no clue what will really happen if anything ever happens at all. That said, this is only MHO, and my $0.02.


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## Aetherwizard (Aug 8, 2017)

tOPDOG1769 said:


> God forbid this country goes into complete craziness, living In SF should my family stay and protect our home or should we go someplace rural. If so where would the best place to go how do you prepare to go someplace rural what supplies would we need radio satellite phone etc?


Realistically, if you wait for the last minute to bug out, you are going to face a disaster. At the last minute, millions of other people will also be bugging out. But that is just the first obstacle. If you make it into a rural area, there will be many others who make it out, too. In most places, the land is owned by someone, and you will then have to deal with armed land owners who are also trying to survive. If you head for public wilderness land, you will be competing with other people who have the same idea. You had better have a good supply of camping equipment, and hope that less prepared people don't try to steal it from you. 

If you are living in San Francisco and things go completely crazy, you might be better off getting on a boat and leaving the area by sea, but that will have its own perils. 

There is no good plan that involves waiting until the last minute to make a move. If you can foresee the trouble coming right now, then now is the time to make your move. The best way to make your move is to find a place where you can move to with permission of the owner, and then get there before the infrastructure is disrupted.


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## Buckman (Sep 24, 2020)

I was living in Southern California 28 years ago when I saw it coming. The freeways leading out of California will be nothing but a five lane parking lot. I moved to Montana and it took a while to establish myself here and get some property. And everything people have said about bugging out to the wilderness at the last minute is true. Now that I am in the “Last Best Place” there is nowhere to go so my place will be defended to the end. Besides we’ve got 1 million people here in the state now and Montana is full.


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

Something to consider, IF THE POWER GOES OUT! The traffic lights will not work, there will be no way to buy gasoline or food. At that point in time, evacuation will be imposable and in some parts of the city, society will break down. All this chaos might only take 3 to 6 hours to unfold. Again, you may watch something on the 10 o'clock news and wake-up in a third world country full of chaos the next morning. Consider the Rodney King riots of years past.


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

If I were in your shoes: 1. Start camping to scout the areas and learn outdoor survival skills. Camping serves as an excellent cover to learn the local area and gleam info about people. 2. Find a small town 3 to 5 hours away and at lease store food, clothes and supplies there. 3. Start the search for some land. Mel Tapin wrote in his books about merging into a rural society. Since 2004 I have worked in that direction. I don't regret that one bit. 4. Set up a 3 year plan to move to a safer town, even another state.


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## BamaDOC (Feb 5, 2020)

rice paddy daddy said:


> People planning on leaving the Big City, or even the suburbs, when things get bad and running away to "the country" don't realize there are already people out here. Who don't necessarily want a bunch of new comers around.
> And running away to "the woods" presents even bigger problems.
> 
> You'd best lay low, don't draw attention to yourselves, and for goodness sakes if you have food and supplies put back, do not tell anyone.


wisdom!


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## justanothergunnut (8 mo ago)

Sometimes when you are living in a place you don't notice it changing. Even when the changes are drastic. I lived in Kalifornistan and left in 2017. I went back in 2021 for a funeral. Just 4 years later and the place I thought was my old stomping grounds was a pit. It literally transformed into a 3rd world hell hole in 4 years. If I had never left I doubt I would have noticed the slide downward. I lived in the Sacramento area and have been to the bay area tons of times. The best honest advice I can give you is LEAVE!! DO IT NOW! Yes it may be difficult but its doable. Don't listen to those without the courage who complain about loss of income or having family there. JUST LEAVE.. I did it, I rebuilt my life, I retooled my life and built a new one. I make 3x what I did in Kalifornistan and will NEVER go back to that S&^tHole... If anything ever goes south you arent going to make it in those areas. Thats the truth. I wargamed it for years and thinking you are going to bug out from the bay area is a fallacy, its a fantasy.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

A year ago I’d say start working on heading to Lassen County or adjoining counties and make the move in a year. Now I’d say do it this summer. 

Born and raised in SF, I love that hell hole and still visit a lot. My last 3-4 years there I was paranoid about SHTF so much so I sold my condo a year early and lived on the boat before sailing away - literally. No regrets even if the condos did go up 50% since I sold. If you rent in SF you can buy now in Lassen with a mortgage payment we’ll below your rent. If you own in SF sell now. Look at the markets today - real estate will follow just like in 08. 

best of luck!


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## Spenser (5 mo ago)

Your biggest SHTF scenarios in California are Earthquakes, Nuclear Powerplant meltdown, Forest Fires, Storm systems (think of a really bad San Andres winds), and rioting/gang violence.

Having lived in California for over a decade I have experienced all of the above with exception of a meltdown. I now live in NY and not NY,NY (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx)

Getting to the airport in a non SHTF (I lived in Sylmar, Ca) took hours for a 31 mile drive on a 5 lane highway. You will be competing with everyone to fly out.

You location makes things tricky. Bugging out is when there is no way you can safely remain at your home. A powerplant meltdown or a forest fire is a no brainer to bug out. You typically have 1-2 hours when you have advanced warning to bug out before you lose your window of opportunity and then that stop and go traffic is gonna happen ( less for a meltdown as that is when its time to start abandoning your possessions as time is literally ticking away).

Earthquakes on the other hand, unless there is enough of an advanced warning (and often there is not) will knock down power lines, trees, bridges, overpasses, highways. Depending where the quake originates, leaving by sea could be out of the question due to tsunamis. Trying to bug out with a full tank of gas in stop and go traffic or extremely slow driving trying to find roads that are still intact could end up stranding you in your vehicle that ran out of gas.

Personally I would move out of California if I were you, as I did just that.

I remember one earthquake streets were blocked by fallen trees and electric lines, roads had buckled, the overpass leading to the highway broke in half, making bugging out impossible for a lot of residents. My step father was a retired Navy officer and a prepper and had a stock pile of food and water which saved us as stores )those were open) only accepted cash as credit card machines were down and one couldn't go to the bank to withdraw money.

My best advice to you is to make numerous escape routes planned in advanced marked by different highlighter colors on your map. Have a GPS with you either GPS device or phone app to assist you when your route section is unpassable. Stock pile food and water incase you are unable to get out, and especially find a way to protect your family and home. This means coating your windows with a film so it doesn't shatter when hit with a hammer, installing security bars on your windows, getting a reinforced metal door that has a metal frame that the door attaches to, set up your vehicle to be a Bug Out vehicle with food, water & gear. ( i would also say have a bike rack with everyone's bikes case u run out of gas)

If you have friends in different cities nearby ask them if something happens can your family stay there for an additional bug out location.

Escaping into the wild should only be done if you are a highly skilled bushman/outdoorsman with hunting, gathering & building skills, and even then this would be the last resort when all other options have been exhausted. If you do not have the skills listed above, Do Not attempt escaping into the wilderness, as then you will end up as a statistic.

Invest in some *sleeping bags, LED lanterns, solar power generator, rechargeable batteries n charger, walkie talkies, CB radio, dual fuel stoves and dual fuel lanterns *(Coleman 533 single burner stove or the Coleman Guide series dual fuel two burner stoves that looks like a briefcase, and dual fuel two mantle lantern) so you can siphon from your vehicle if stranded to fuel these devices. Get a am/fm *world solar crank radio *with weather alert, led headlamp & flashlights.

Some additional items *phone power bank,* *solar panel*, *power inverter* (12v to 110v), a few *UPS battery backup surge protectors* (when the power goes out these can charge multiple devices up to an hour and a half depending on model to charge laptops, tablets, phones, power banks, or to run a tv or radio to hear news updates) *HAM Radio* (by this point it even if u don't have the ham license it is better to get a hefty fine then to be in the dark without communication- realize that cell phone service is likely to be interrupted or inaccessible due to power outages or mass hysteria with entire state trying to call out . This was the case during 9/11 in NY)

Fingers crossed that no SHTF any time soon for ya there mate.

Personal motto: I rather to have and not need then need but not have the gear for my survival.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

tOPDOG1769 said:


> God forbid this country goes into complete craziness, living In SF should my family stay and protect our home or should we go someplace rural. If so where would the best place to go how do you prepare to go someplace rural what supplies would we need radio satellite phone etc?


This is a great first step. Knowing that you have a problem is 50% of the way towards solving it.

Each person's solution is going to be unique to their situation.

What works for me may not work for you.

First you need to decide if this is going to be a short or long term solution and how each would affect your family.

Second is to determine when to put your plan into motion. Waiting until the last minute is asking for a disaster.

No plan survives the first taste of battle. Things are gong to go wrong. At the last minute approach, you'll have little of no time to put corrective matters into effect. The sooner you put your plan of action into motion, the longer period you'll have in which to take corrective action for when things go sideways - and Just remember Murphy was an optomist.

Good luck


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## DoubleA (Nov 9, 2012)

Keep your vehicle’s gas tank full, all the time. Keep some blankets and emergency supplies in it. Keep cash, water, and some emergency rations in a tub. At the first sign of trouble, either get out, or decide to stay. If you leave, have a destination in mind - family member or friend, who is ok with you staying with them. 

If you stay, you will need water, food, fuel for cooking, sanitation (buckets, plastic bags, TP, wipes), hand sanitizer, headlamps / radio and batteries, first aid kit, and and some way to defend it. Note that it is effectively impossible to obtain a concealed weapons license in the Bay Area. 

If the San Andreas Fault or Cascadia Subduction Zone let loose, you are screwed. As previously suggested, relocate now while you have some control over the process. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

The answer is that it depends.

If you and your family voted in and tolerated the destructive policies now plaguing the SF region, the state of CA, and by default the rest of the nation through progressive nonsense and electoral votes, etc. do everyone a favor and stay there, laying in the bed you've created. Nobody wants these people moving into their communities like a plague to destroy them. FYI, almost nobody in the nation "welcomes" California license plates, and there's a reason for it. Many state residents actually despise Californians, because they have over-run and destroyed so many states like Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, Washington, Oregon, etc.

If, however, you've acted sensibly and just been "overrun" by the lunatics, then take your sensible politics and votes to a region that would at least tolerate more Californians. Staying there is the definition of insanity as it implodes, IMO.


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## dontnukemeplease (4 mo ago)

tOPDOG1769 said:


> God forbid this country goes into complete craziness, living In SF should my family stay and protect our home or should we go someplace rural. If so where would the best place to go how do you prepare to go someplace rural what supplies would we need radio satellite phone etc?


That decision ultimately has to come down to you. Staying in the city long-term however is not a good option in my opinion and I would urge you to get out of the city while you can right now.
The best prep you can obtain is knowledge. Hunting, fishing, trapping, farming (or gardening) and foraging are the big five when it comes to surviving in the country, and knowing how to do these things are going to be the difference between life and death. Each one of those crafts have several sub-categories you have to master as well. Another thing to consider is a high population density. You can be in a rural area and still be packed in with neighbors, although they may just be a hundred yards from you instead of ten feet. Everyone in the area are all going to be vying for resources which will either lead to conflict or companionship. Many preppers are gear-based rather than knowledge based. The old time homesteaders and farmers, especially free-trappers, had to make due with what they had, which by modern standards, wasn't much.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

tOPDOG1769 said:


> God forbid this country goes into complete craziness, living In SF should my family stay and protect our home or should we go someplace rural. If so where would the best place to go how do you prepare to go someplace rural what supplies would we need radio satellite phone etc?


First we have no idea as to what level of preparedness nor what skill sets you may possess.

Lacking that, it would be wise to take an accounting of your situation.

What do you have? Who do you have to protect and care for? Do you have somewhere to go where you'l be accepted? (Like with family members).

Once you have a basic inventory of your situation, you need to decide where you need/want to be in say 6 Months, a year and in say five years. Because getting there without disrupting your daily lives too greatly is a long process. Especially if you need to develop skill sets for survival.

Farming; hunting; self defense; and first aid are some basic skills you'll need in a brave new world.

Good luck


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## Wildecard (Oct 17, 2021)

R. Zangier said:


> It's pretty straightforward, but also super complex.


A lot like the Art of Shen-Ku.
Simple enough for a child---Too complex for a genius.


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