# No Guns Allowed



## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I have been seeing more and more businesses with that sign on their door or the symbol. The latest was Panera Bread.
I like to go to Panera on occasion but I'm not going where I'm not welcome! I tend to just ignore the signs and go into most
stores anyway. I know all they can do if they were to find out would be ask you to leave so I'm asking what do you all do?
Best I can tell no-one has ever known I was CCW into their store or restaurant I don't see any reason to stop, the bad guys won't!


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I try not to do business with these if possible. Second if I have to I will go armed. The best place to have a firearm is where none are permitted for that will become the place of greatest need. If you look at mass shootings and shootings in general, these people no matter how crazy they are tend to avoid areas/people whom are armed and go for the gun free zone. Insanity does not equal stupidity unless you are a liberal/progressive.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I spend my money with businesses that allow carry when possible.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

I think Starbucks has adopted the same policy. Hasn't stopped me yet. I kind of hate the yuppie atmosphere, but for some stupid reason I like their Pike Place blend ...... and so, whenever I am near one, I go get my coffee. Armed of course.


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## taps50 (Sep 28, 2013)

I used to refuse to spend any money at any location that wouldn't let me carry in the store/restaurant and I still make it a decision when going to restaurants but I will admit Harbor Freight won that battle for me. Stopped going for about 6 months then I had to give in. Other than Harbor Freight though I tend to avoid these locations, but if I'm forced to go in one of these locations I will take my sidearm off, mainly because if I enter the store knowing they don't allow CCing I can get charged for a misdemeanor trespassing, placing it in my under the seat Gunvault.


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## Dalarast (May 16, 2014)

Taps has the right attitude on this in my opinion. Just as its my right to carry a firearm its an owners right of a store to say "not in my store". Will the lack of my business put these evil hippy businesses on the block in a box? Nope.. but I don't have to support them. 

The biggest support to my opinion is my prior experience working in the bar business. Recently Virginia allowed people to carry weapons into a bar... but not to drink as that is against the law. So many people have issues with this and do not understand it and its one thing to convince someone they can't be served its another if they have a firearm on them.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

It is considered the same as a trespass here in michigan. Son if asked you simply need to leave. 

I have not had a license to conceal carry. But my desire to support individual freedom would tell me to avoid a business that would demand the public forsake their second amendment right.

If they had up a sign saying your first and fifth amendment rights are to be suspended once you enter this property. 

Would you go. Then once you entered would you financially support them.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

How's Panera's anti-gun stance working for them?

Police: Panera Bread robbed at gunpoint | Ocala.com

In Florida a business sign does not carry the weight of law. If you go into a biz while carrying, they can ask you to leave, they can call the cops, but so long as you have not brandished your weapon you have not broken the law... but then...
I really appreciated Panera's quote here (from InvestorPlace.com, *bold[/B added for emphasis])



The chain said in a statement that it respects the right of gun owners but it believes that gun control is necessary in its locations in order to make customers and associates feel "comfortable and welcome."

The company added that only authorized law enforcement officials can carry a weapon inside its restaurants. Panera's move comes at a time when the gun control debate is as heated as ever.

Click to expand...

Restriction is not respect, Komrade Panera.
It might be a cheap shot but at least Dunkin Donuts give LEOs free donuts. I rarely see LEOs in Panera. 
(now let me talk out of the other side of my mouth - There are 3 Panera store in JAX who donate their day-old bread to our Church each week.)*


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

The law is the law.

When we make a personal decision to follow laws we like, . . . disregard those we do not like, . . . we sit down next to Barak Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and a host of other lawless thugs, thieves, and murderers.

If you wish to be like them, . . . that's your decision. I'll take the higher road and obey the law, . . . thank you.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

If it's somewhere I want/need to go to, I go, armed of course. If it's a choice between store "a" or store "b" and store "a" has a no gun sign... well it makes the choice easy for me.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

dwight55 said:


> The law is the law.
> 
> When we make a personal decision to follow laws we like, . . . disregard those we do not like, . . . we sit down next to Barak Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and a host of other lawless thugs, thieves, and murderers.
> 
> ...


I am not well versed in Ohio gun laws, but here in WV you are not breaking the law going into a business legally armed, even if there is a "no guns allowed" sign. The owners, if they discover you are armed has a right to ask you to surrender your firearm (crazy if you do) or leave. If you refuse to leave or surrender your firearm, then you have broken the law.
*EDIT*
changed the word "have" a right to "has" a right


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Like I posted yesterday on another thread, I visited a Panera store for lunch. I was carrying concealed and there was no sign on the door or anywhere in the entrance way prohibiting weapons/firearms. I ate a good sandwich.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

alterego said:


> It is considered the same as a trespass here in michigan. Son if asked you simply need to leave.
> 
> I have not had a license to conceal carry. But my desire to support individual freedom would tell me to avoid a business that would demand the public forsake their second amendment right.
> 
> ...


To expand on that a bit, if you are trespassing, then you have no legal right to be there.
If you're not legal, you have no right to self defense with Michigan's Castle Doctrine.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

"If you choose to patronize this establishment you will forgo your second amendment right to keep and bear arms, you will waive your first amendment right to complain about it and by eating here you hereby give consent to circumvent your 4th amendment right to unwarranted search and seizure as this is a private entity and we can ask anyone to leave at anytime and for any reason. We can also detain you for a variety of reasons without criminal liability."

I think I'll just eat my soup and sandwich at the house.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

It's concealed carry right? Unless you do something stupid how would they know.

If possible I tap on the window, or walk in the door and point out the sign. Then simple state I guess your not getting my money today. The business needs to know how many people are not patronizing their place because of the decision. 

Just walking by and not doing a thing is exactly why our country is in the position that's it's in. Nobody has any balls to stand up and resist, even the little things.


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## oldgrouch (Jul 11, 2014)

I have trouble deciding this one. I usually leave a gun in my truck. However, events in this nation seem to be building .... I need either a smaller gun or a better holster to carry into a business. I consider the Luby restaurant killings years ago. A survivor laments that she left her handgun in her car --- in an interview she felt that her parents would not have been murdered if she had brought the gun in with her.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Chipper said:


> If possible I tap on the window, or walk in the door and point out the sign. Then simple state I guess your not getting my money today. The business needs to know how many people are not patronizing their place because of the decision.
> 
> Just walking by and not doing a thing is exactly why our country is in the position that's it's in. Nobody has any balls to stand up and resist, even the little things.


Therein lies the difference I've seen between many conservatives and many liberals.

When liberals get butthurt, they form Moms Demand Action, beg for funding, buy nice cars with it, and then bully the shit out of businesses until they obey their minority demands (such as barring guns from businesses, all the while enjoying armed protection at their rallies).

When conservatives get upset, they quietly go elsewhere. This makes perfect sense, because in most cases it's a simple problem with a simple solution and there's no reason to rally the troops. Fix the problem and get on with life.

This is why less than 5% of the population can often times disrupt a freedom that a much larger percentage of the population was enjoying quietly and without harm up until then.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Almost every single place that posts a no firearms sign is doing so for insurance purposes, not personal beliefs. (yes, there are exceptions)
They want your business, plain and simple.
They also want the business of the soccer mom and hippy.
So, they usually post a sign that is not legally binding in any way, to appease the sheep, and still allow legal carry in their stores.

For this reason, I carry everywhere I'm not *legally* restricted from doing so.


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Almost every single place that posts a no firearms sign is doing so for insurance purposes, not personal beliefs. (yes, there are exceptions)
> They want your business, plain and simple.
> They also want the business of the soccer mom and hippy.
> So, they usually post a sign that is not legally binding in any way, to appease the sheep, and still allow legal carry in their stores.
> ...


As do I.

The Democratic People's Republik of Hellinois recently became a CCW state. Last in the Union. lol And as usual for this socialist paradise, we have a LONG list of restricted places here where you cannot carry. Larger than the list of places you CAN carry. But any private business that is not "off limits" by law must publish a specific sign in order for carry to be legally restricted.
https://ccl4illinois.com/Public/CCWProhibitedAreaSign.pdf

I use an app on my phone that allows users to track these locations, and to publish pics of the doors w/ signs to add new "anti-gun" businesses, as well as list "pro-gun" alternatives. Since the CCW law went into effect, I stopped going to any business that forbids CCW (even before I got mine), unless I have no choice (DMV, Kid's school, etc). The *ONLY* exception I make is going to the dog park. We have two Rottweilers that benefit greatly from the socialization and interaction with people and other dogs there, so I made the choice for the dog park to be the "exception that proves the rule".

To be clear, I COMPLETELY support the rights of ANY business owner to declare his location to be "gun-free". Or sould I say, free of non-criminals w/ LEGAL firearms. However, I also COMPLETELY support the rights of every consumer that chooses to not spend his money in that establishment. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe it doesn't. To me, it really doesn't matter if it makes a difference, I make the stand based on my principals. I don't give them my money, just like I don't support certain actors/singers/artists/etc that I feel harm the US (Jane Fonda, Harry Belafonte, etc).

Here's the section of the law that deals with prohibited places here in Hellinois..

Places Off Limits Even With A Permit/License
Section 65. Prohibited Areas
.
(a)
A licensee under this Act shall not knowingly carry a firearm on or into:
(1)
Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a public or private elementary or secondary school.
(2)
Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a pre-school or child care facility, including any room or portion of a building under the control of a pre-school or child care facility. Nothing in this paragraph shall prevent the operator of a child care facility in a family home from owning or possessing a firearm in the home or license under this Act, if no child under child care at the home is present in the home or the firearm in the home is stored in a locked container when a child under child care at the home is present in the home.
(3)
Any building, parking area, or portion of a building under the control of an officer of the executive or legislative branch of government, provided that nothing in this paragraph shall prohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed firearm onto the real property, bikeway, or trail in a park regulated by the Department of Natural Resources or any other designated public hunting area or building where firearm possession is permitted as established by the Department of Natural Resources under Section 1.8 of the Wildlife Code.
(4)
Any building designated for matters before a circuit court, appellate court, or the Supreme Court, or any building or portion of a building under the control of the Supreme Court.
(5)
Any building or portion of a building under the control of a unit of local government.
(6)
Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of an adult or juvenile detention or correctional institution, prison, or jail.
(7)
Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a public or private hospital or hospital affiliate, mental health facility, or nursing home.
(8)
Any bus, train, or form of transportation paid for in whole or in part with public funds, and any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a public transportation facility paid for in whole or in part with public funds.
(9)
Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of an establishment that serves alcohol on its premises, if more than 50% of the establishment's gross receipts within the prior 3 months is from the sale of alcohol. The owner of an establishment who knowingly fails to prohibit concealed firearms on its premises as provided in this paragraph or who knowingly makes a false statement or record to avoid the prohibition on concealed firearms under this paragraph is subject to the penalty under subsection (c-5) of Section 10-1 of the Liquor Control Act of 1934.
(10)
Any public gathering or special event conducted on property open to the public that requires the issuance of a permit from the unit of local government, provided this prohibition shall not apply to a licensee who must walk through a public gathering in order to access his or her residence, place of business, or vehicle.
(11)
Any building or real property that has been issued a Special Event Retailer's license as defined in Section 1-3.17.1 of the Liquor Control Act during the time designated for the sale of alcohol by the Special Event Retailer's license, or a Special use permit license as defined in subsection (q) of Section 5-1 of the Liquor Control Act during the time designated for the sale of alcohol by the Special use permit license.
(12)
Any public playground.
(13)
Any public park, athletic area, or athletic facility under the control of a municipality or park district, provided nothing in this Section shall prohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed firearm while on a trail or bikeway if only a portion of the trail or bikeway includes a public park.
(14)
Any real property under the control of the Cook County Forest Preserve District.
(15)
Any building, classroom, laboratory, medical clinic, hospital, artistic venue, athletic venue, entertainment venue, officially recognized university-related organization property, whether owned or leased, and any real property, including parking areas, sidewalks, and common areas under the control of a public or private community college, college, or university.
(16)
Any building, real property, or parking area under the control of a gaming facility licensed under the Riverboat Gambling Act or the Illinois Horse Racing Act of 1975, including an inter-track wagering location licensee.
(17)
Any stadium, arena, or the real property or parking area under the control of a stadium, arena, or any collegiate or professional sporting event.
(18)
Any building, real property, or parking area under the control of a public library.
(19)
Any building, real property, or parking area under the control of an airport.
(20)
Any building, real property, or parking area under the control of an amusement park.
(21)
Any building, real property, or parking area under the control of a zoo or museum.
(22)
Any street, driveway, parking area, property, building, or facility, owned, leased, controlled, or used by a nuclear energy, storage, weapons, or development site or facility regulated by the federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission. The licensee shall not under any circumstance store a firearm or ammunition in his or her vehicle or in a compartment or container within a vehicle located anywhere in or on the street, driveway, parking area, property, building, or facility described in this paragraph.
(23)
Any area where firearms are prohibited under federal law.
(a-5)
Nothing in this Act shall prohibit a public or private community college, college, or university from:
(1) prohibiting persons from carrying a firearm within a vehicle owned, leased, or controlled by the college or university;
(2) developing resolutions, regulations, or policies regarding student, employee, or visitor misconduct and discipline, including suspension and expulsion;
(3) developing resolutions, regulations, or policies regarding the storage or maintenance of firearms, which must include designated areas where persons can park vehicles that carry firearms; and
(4) permitting the carrying or use of firearms for the purpose of instruction and curriculum of officially recognized programs, including but not limited to military science and law enforcement training programs, or in any designated area used for hunting purposes or target shooting.
(a-10)
The owner of private real property of any type may prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms on the property under his or her control. The owner must post a sign in accordance with subsection (d) of this Section indicating that firearms are prohibited on the property, unless the property is a private residence.
(b)
Notwithstanding subsections (a), (a-5), and (a-10) of this Section except under paragraph (22) or (23) of subsection(a), any licensee prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a prohibited location specified in subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section shall be permitted to carry a concealed firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle into the parking area and may store a firearm or ammunition concealed in a case within a locked vehicle or locked container out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area. A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk, provided the licensee ensures the concealed firearm is unloaded prior to exiting the vehicle. For purposes of this subsection, "case" includes a glove compartment or console that completely encloses the concealed firearm or ammunition, the trunk of the vehicle, or a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container.
(c)
A licensee shall not be in violation of this Section while he or she is traveling along a public right of way that touches or crosses any of the premises under subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section if the concealed firearm is carried on his or her person in accordance with the provisions of this Act or is being transported in a vehicle by the licensee in accordance with all other applicable provisions of law.
(d)
Signs stating that the carrying of firearms is prohibited shall be clearly and conspicuously posted at the entrance of a building, premises, or real property specified in this Section as a prohibited area, unless the building or premises is a private residence. Signs shall be of a uniform design as established by the Department and shall be 4 inches by 6 inches in size. The Department shall adopt rules for standardized signs to be used under this subsection.
Note: All places as listed by the State as Off Limits must be posted. You can go here to read an email from an Illinois CCL Instructor on other items in IL law that may affect those carrying a


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Egyas said:


> As do I.
> 
> The Democratic People's Republik of Hellinois recently became a CCW state. Last in the Union. lol And as usual for this socialist paradise, we have a LONG list of restricted places here where you cannot carry. Larger than the list of places you CAN carry. But any private business that is not "off limits" by law must publish a specific sign in order for carry to be legally restricted.
> https://ccl4illinois.com/Public/CCWProhibitedAreaSign.pdf
> ...


Two words: "move away"

:lol:


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I'll just echo what some have said, it's concealed, unless they have metal detectors, who cares? I'll eat someplace else. btw, who needs ccw permit, hear folks says 2nd A is their carry permit. I understand you're in big doo-doo if caught.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Most of these stores just request no firearms. Unless an actual "no guns allowed" signed is posted in accordance with my state's law (NC), I simply ignore the request.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

1skrewsloose said:


> I'll just echo what some have said, it's concealed, unless they have metal detectors, who cares?


Signs have force of law here, so I'm not eager to become a felon. I have carried in places where I was under the impression that they may want it to be gun free (state fair for example) but since nobody told me directly and after looking I didn't see any signs, I carried on.



1skrewsloose said:


> btw, who needs ccw permit, hear folks says 2nd A is their carry permit. I understand you're in big doo-doo if caught.


It would be nice if it was constitutional carry in every state. However a felony is a felony, and a misdemeanor is still a crime as well; you can't change the law by breaking it. There are other methods, ones that should be taken by all responsible gun owners. Attend your town hall meetings. Make sure you vote on local ordinances when they come up for review. Write your reps. Hell, stand on a corner and yell about it if it helps.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Ditto that!!


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> Signs have force of law here, so I'm not eager to become a felon. I have carried in places where I was under the impression that they may want it to be gun free (state fair for example) but since nobody told me directly and after looking I didn't see any signs, I carried on.


Ditto on that. Take our mall (Virginia Center Commons) for instance. I have read, online I believe it was, that the parent company does not allow weapons in the mall. However, on the entrances into the mall, I have been unable to find any signs mentioning "no guns allowed" or words to that effect. So I carry whenever I am in the mall ........ which trust me, is as few times as I can possibly make it -- maybe once a year around Christmas? Anymore, these malls are being taken over by teenage thugs. I consider them to be very dangerous places. The mall police are unarmed ....... it is a joke.


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Two words: "move away"
> 
> :lol:


Oh, if only I could! I work from home, so I can literally live ANYWHERE that has a dependable high-speed Internet connection. Sadly, when the housing market here in Northern Hellinois went into the pisser, my city was one of the worst off. I simply cannot sell this dead albatross of a house!

I have owned this house for 10 years now, and I owe $104K on the mortgage still. When the housing market crashed, no one could sell their house, so a TON of them went into foreclosure or people just "walked away". The house next to me has been empty for over 2 years now, and the one next to it empty for 6 months now. On my 3 block stretch of street, there are 4 or 5 empty houses. In the entire neighborhood, I'm betting we're at almost 10% empty houses. At it's high point, my house was appraised at almost $160K, and my property tax bill listed "fair market value" as almost $140K. As of 2 years ago, they were still making me pay taxes on $130K value, when I would have been lucky to sell it for $90K. After years of people filing taxes under protest, and suing the city, this year the city FINALLY adjusted the assessments, and dropped my "fair market value" to just over $86K. It made my taxes better (This year I paid $3202 in property taxes, last year I paid $4434), but it doesn't help me sell the house. Even if I could sell it, according to local realitors the best I could expect is roughly $80K. So I'll be over $20K underwater.

So, like I said, if only I could move.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Egyas said:


> So, like I said, if only I could move.


I feel ya man. Rough times indeed.
With any luck (and if history is any indication), it's the loony libs who "walked away" from responsibility and you'll have a better chance of getting those gun laws changed soon.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> Ditto on that. Take our mall (Virginia Center Commons) for instance. I have read, online I believe it was, that the parent company does not allow weapons in the mall. However, on the entrances into the mall, I have been unable to find any signs mentioning "no guns allowed" or words to that effect. So I carry whenever I am in the mall ........ which trust me, is as few times as I can possibly make it -- maybe once a year around Christmas? Anymore, these malls are being taken over by teenage thugs. I consider them to be very dangerous places. The mall police are unarmed ....... it is a joke.


I abhor the mall, especially because it's becoming harder and harder to tell the boys from the girls, and if someone is rude I would like to know if I'm allowed to stare them down or if I have to be polite.

That being said, there's a trick to many malls; the anchor stores. All those big department stores aren't controlled by the mall administration, and can maintain their own policies. Most of them are gun friendly or at the very least not hostile. If you enter through one, there's almost never a sign.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Just curious if anyone knows. If there was an active shooter situation in one of these no guns allowed stores where the sign is backed up by law. And a person who ignored the sign stopped the threat, would they still be charged even though they were a hero?


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> Just curious if anyone knows. If there was an active shooter situation in one of these no guns allowed stores where the sign is backed up by law. And a person who ignored the sign stopped the threat, would they still be charged even though they were a hero?


Yes. People already have been, and/or lost their jobs.

To play devils advocate, there is no scenario that temporarily nullifies a law. Reason suggests that we charge them in order to follow the letter of the law and then automatically suspend the sentence.


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## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

I can't stand Panera anyway. Hippie food - (over-charging a fortune for soup and bread). You can get that stuff for free at a soup kitchen.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Sockpuppet said:


> Yeah, kinda. There are, however, scenarios that provide mitigating factors to violating the law, and avoiding the actual conviction.
> 
> This is why charges can be no-billed before a Grand Jury, refused to be filed by the prosecutor, dismissed in the interest of justice, as well as that of the use of affirmative defenses.
> 
> Imagine having to break into a home or business to use a phone to dial 911 and report a serious medical or public safety emergency....only to be charged and convicted with a felony, that despite the suspension of sentence, still disqualifies one from their chosen profession/owning a firearm/living in certain neighborhoods/etc.


Such charges are filed against people that use 911 calls as an excuse not a reason for breaking and entering. I broke into a Federal facility after one of my sergeants was struck by lightening. (I did not have authority to suspend the exercise.) an investigation was done and I was never charged. Try to use hypotheticals you can back up with reason.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Maybe my attitude is a little strange, but if a business says that it doesn't want you to bring a firearm into their establishment, I DON'T. I don't care if it is a law or not, it is their RIGHT to say that they don't want firearms on their property. IMO a moral person who carries a firearm and who believes in property rights and respects other people's RIGHTS, will either not go to those businesses or lock their firearm in their vehicle when they go to that business.

I have a real problem with people who say that they don't care if a business says that they don't allow firearms in their business, they are going to do it anyway. THEIR rights do not over ride the RIGHTS of the business owner. People like that make it hard on everyone else who carries a firearm while still observing other people's rights. If you can't do without whatever product that a particular business sells, then leave your firearm. Let's be honest, you are violating the business owners RIGHTS not because you HAVE to have what they are selling, but because you WANT what they are selling. 

Have some respect for the wishes of a business. There are plenty of businesses that don't have a problem with people carrying concealed weapons on their premises, shop there. If you expect other people to respect YOUR rights then you need to RESPECT theirs.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Pir8fan said:


> Most of these stores just request no firearms. Unless an actual "no guns allowed" signed is posted in accordance with my state's law (NC), I simply ignore the request.


Sounds like if you came into my house and I asked you not to smoke, you would do it anyway because it's not against the law. Way to show respect for other people's Rights. If a property owner asks you not to bring a firearm onto their property, then the way I was raised I either will not go on that property or not bring a firearm on that property. It's not only a matter of respect for someone's Rights, but a matter of just good manners.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> Ditto on that. Take our mall (Virginia Center Commons) for instance. I have read, online I believe it was, that the parent company does not allow weapons in the mall. However, on the entrances into the mall, I have been unable to find any signs mentioning "no guns allowed" or words to that effect. So I carry whenever I am in the mall ........ which trust me, is as few times as I can possibly make it -- maybe once a year around Christmas? Anymore, these malls are being taken over by teenage thugs. I consider them to be very dangerous places. The mall police are unarmed ....... it is a joke.


If they don't have a sign then as far as I am concerned you can bring a firearm onto the premises. I am not a mind reader and I shouldn't be expected to check on every business that I go to as to their attitude towards someone carrying a firearm onto their premises as long as they obey their State's law. If I am aware that they don't want you to, or if they have signs up to that affect, then I won't carry a firearm there, or to be more exact, I won't go there.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Notsoyoung said:


> Maybe my attitude is a little strange, but if a business says that it doesn't want you to bring a firearm into their establishment, I DON'T. I don't care if it is a law or not, it is their RIGHT to say that they don't want firearms on their property. IMO a moral person who carries a firearm and who believes in property rights and respects other people's RIGHTS, will either not go to those businesses or lock their firearm in their vehicle when they go to that business.
> 
> I have a real problem with people who say that they don't care if a business says that they don't allow firearms in their business, they are going to do it anyway. THEIR rights do not over ride the RIGHTS of the business owner. People like that make it hard on everyone else who carries a firearm while still observing other people's rights. If you can't do without whatever product that a particular business sells, then leave your firearm. Let's be honest, you are violating the business owners RIGHTS not because you HAVE to have what they are selling, but because you WANT what they are selling.
> 
> Have some respect for the wishes of a business. There are plenty of businesses that don't have a problem with people carrying concealed weapons on their premises, shop there. If you expect other people to respect YOUR rights then you need to RESPECT theirs.


As the old saying goes "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6", I have a different perspective. I carry for one reason only .. to protect myself or my family in case of a completely unexpected confrontation, no matter where it happens. As long as I don't have to pass through some kind of security checkpoint with metal detectors or pat-downs, I will probably be carrying. I really don't care if the CEO of Starbucks has requested that customers do not bring guns into his stores. I will have mine, and it will be concealed and no one will know the difference. If by chance some perp goes berserk in one of the Starbuck shops and I am forced into defending myself, or some other innocents, then I will do so and face the music later. At least I will have a chance at having a "later".


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> As the old saying goes "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6", I have a different perspective. I carry for one reason only .. to protect myself or my family in case of a completely unexpected confrontation, no matter where it happens. As long as I don't have to pass through some kind of security checkpoint with metal detectors or pat-downs, I will probably be carrying. I really don't care if the CEO of Starbucks has requested that customers do not bring guns into his stores. I will have mine, and it will be concealed and no one will know the difference. If by chance some perp goes berserk in one of the Starbuck shops and I am forced into defending myself, or some other innocents, then I will do so and face the music later. At least I will have a chance at having a "later".


Then DON'T GO to places that don't allow firearms. It's that simple. What you are really saying is "I don't give a damn about other peoples RIGHTS, I only care about ME and what I WANT". You don't HAVE to have Starbucks, you want it.

This is the first year that Illinois started allowing Concealed Carry Permits, and there were allot of businesses that had the "no firearms allowed" signs on their front doors but I noticed that after a very short period of time they started disappearing. Why? Because of the loss of business. If someone doesn't want you to bring a firearm onto their property, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT, and I would hope that most people would respect other people's rights just as they expect other people to respect THEIRS. If a business doesn't want you to bring a firearm into their property then everyone who believes in the 2nd amendment SHOULD NOT GO THERE, and see how long that business keeps those signs up after they notice the drop in business. But whether they change their attitude or not, you can't expect anyone to respect YOUR rights if you don't respect THEIRS.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

As I said earlier, most companies have a "no firearms" policy for insurance purposes only, and the executives will back this up because they don't want to lose their coverage.
The law clearly defines the steps that can be taken to restrict the carry of arms in a private business.
If they choose not to follow those steps, that is on them, not me.
Perhaps they still WANT private citizens carrying legally in case something bad does go down, but they can't openly state this due to the issue above.
Therefore, they don't take the legal route to restrict, but rather the sheeple-subduing one.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Notsoyoung said:


> Then DON'T GO to places that don't allow firearms. It's that simple. What you are really saying is "I don't give a damn about other peoples RIGHTS, I only care about ME and what I WANT". You don't HAVE to have Starbucks, you want it.
> 
> This is the first year that Illinois started allowing Concealed Carry Permits, and there were allot of businesses that had the "no firearms allowed" signs on their front doors but I noticed that after a very short period of time they started disappearing. Why? Because of the loss of business. If someone doesn't want you to bring a firearm onto their property, THAT IS THEIR RIGHT, and I would hope that most people would respect other people's rights just as they expect other people to respect THEIRS. If a business doesn't want you to bring a firearm into their property then everyone who believes in the 2nd amendment SHOULD NOT GO THERE, and see how long that business keeps those signs up after they notice the drop in business. But whether they change their attitude or not, you can't expect anyone to respect YOUR rights if you don't respect THEIRS.


I don't go researching which places do not want guns. I just happened to be listening to the radio one day when I heard the news article about Starbucks. Only one time did I hear it, and I could have just as easily missed hearing it. To date, Starbucks has no posted signs. Therefore, I will continue to carry. When they post a sign, I will cease. Because of the laws of Virginia, it is really that simple. In fact, this past July, concealed carry won another victory -- a law went into effect that ALLOWS carrying in restaurants and bars as long as you carry concealed, you don't consume any alcohol, AND as long as there is no posted sign disallowing it.

I have no idea whether stores like Lowes, Home Depot, Chic-fil-la, Waffle House, CVS Pharmacy, Benjamin Moore Paints or any of the other dozen stores or restaurants that I frequent have requested "please no guns". As I said before, I am not going to go do any research. IF and when they post a sign, I will abide by it. I don't need any more lectures on this.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> Then DON'T GO to places that don't allow firearms. It's that simple. What you are really saying is "I don't give a damn about other peoples RIGHTS, I only care about ME and what I WANT". You don't HAVE to have Starbucks, you want it.


Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

If nobody knows you're carrying I don't see the harm. If a sign is posted AND it is backed up by law then I will not patronize the business. That one time that you leave your gun could be the one time you need it. Before you say it, if you ask me not to smoke in your house I wont.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Notsoyoung said:


> Maybe my attitude is a little strange, but if a business says that it doesn't want you to bring a firearm into their establishment, I DON'T. I don't care if it is a law or not, it is their RIGHT to say that they don't want firearms on their property. IMO a moral person who carries a firearm and who believes in property rights and respects other people's RIGHTS, will either not go to those businesses or lock their firearm in their vehicle when they go to that business.
> 
> I have a real problem with people who say that they don't care if a business says that they don't allow firearms in their business, they are going to do it anyway. THEIR rights do not over ride the RIGHTS of the business owner. People like that make it hard on everyone else who carries a firearm while still observing other people's rights. If you can't do without whatever product that a particular business sells, then leave your firearm. Let's be honest, you are violating the business owners RIGHTS not because you HAVE to have what they are selling, but because you WANT what they are selling.
> 
> Have some respect for the wishes of a business. There are plenty of businesses that don't have a problem with people carrying concealed weapons on their premises, shop there. If you expect other people to respect YOUR rights then you need to RESPECT theirs.


You have the moral high ground on this one. I tip my hat to you sir.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

We have been thru this discussion on more than one occasion and it is always the same old stuff rehashed. 
Here in Florida the signs don't mean squat, all a business can do is ask you to leave, all the cops can do is issue a trespass warning.
Yesterday was the first time I have seen a sign saying no firearms allowed, it was on the door to a hospital which is a place I don't carry at anyway.

FL Statute 394.458 which indicates it is a third degree felony to carry in a hospital or mental health facility which provides mental health services 'except as authorized by law.' By default, almost every hospital does at least some of that.

So, what does that mean? Logically, since hospitals and mental health facilities are NOT mentioned in 790.06(12), and you presumably have a license that authorizes you to carry concealed, you should be good to go. 
Again I don't, why? I have no idea.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

To me, it is not an issue of "moral high ground" or honor or anything along those lines. It is personal protection -- just so long as I don't break any laws ..... period.

I am sorry to have to say this, but IMO, anyone who thinks differently needs to re-evaluate why they carry in the first place. Bad things can happen anywhere, at anytime, and they sometimes do.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> To me, it is not an issue of "moral high ground" or honor or anything along those lines. It is personal protection -- just so long as I don't break any laws ..... period.
> 
> I am sorry to have to say this, but IMO, anyone who thinks differently needs to re-evaluate why they carry in the first place. Bad things can happen anywhere, at anytime, and they sometimes do.


Exactly


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> I don't go researching which places do not want guns. I just happened to be listening to the radio one day when I heard the news article about Starbucks. Only one time did I hear it, and I could have just as easily missed hearing it. To date, Starbucks has no posted signs. Therefore, I will continue to carry. When they post a sign, I will cease. Because of the laws of Virginia, it is really that simple. In fact, this past July, concealed carry won another victory -- a law went into effect that ALLOWS carrying in restaurants and bars as long as you carry concealed, you don't consume any alcohol, AND as long as there is no posted sign disallowing it.
> 
> I have no idea whether stores like Lowes, Home Depot, Chic-fil-la, Waffle House, CVS Pharmacy, Benjamin Moore Paints or any of the other dozen stores or restaurants that I frequent have requested "please no guns". As I said before, I am not going to go do any research. IF and when they post a sign, I will abide by it. I don't need any more lectures on this.


I guess that is your choice, personally, my own moral standards dictate that if I know about it, regardless of how I find out, I won't go to a place of business that doesn't want anyone to bring firearms into their businesses. I will admit that I don't go out of my way to find out what their policy is, such as checking on it on the internet, but should I find out that they don't want me there, I won't go. Frankly there isn't a single business that I feel that I have to frequent and not go somewhere else. Neither Starbucks or Pannera bread is a big deal to me. I can and do go somewhere else for coffee or something to eat. They aren't hurting me at all by telling me that they don't want my business. There are plenty of other places to go, and if those who believe in the 2nd amendment would all refuse to go to these businesses, they would change their policies. The BEST way to get a business to change it's policy is to threaten it's profit margin.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

"those who believe in" and "those who exercise" the right, are very different groupings.
They are not equal in their support, and one can be swayed easily.

I have a resolution to any who suffer from this dilemma.
Drive-thru.


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