# The problem with prepping rice and beans, revisited



## sideKahr

Okay, so I'm reorganizing my food preps, and I decided to do a real-world test. I extracted a cup of white rice and a cup of pinto beans stored 3-4 years ago. I soaked the beans overnight to make traditional rice and beans. Since this was a test of prepper style cooking, I seasoned with old dehydrated onions, chilli powder, cumin, and garlic salt. I used sterno for fuel.









The dish was delicious. But that's not the problem. It took 4+ hours and 2 cans of sterno to get everything cooked and softened up. And these were the large, restaurant grade, made in the USA, gen-u-whine sterno's. And the amount of food prepared was not a lot, only about 4 cups. Rice and beans is very fuel-intensive.

I have a lot of rice and beans, they're cheap, and they last a long time. But the problem of cooking them is one I haven't solved. I stock propane, charcoal, white gas, and alcohol for various other methods of cooking; but none of them will last long making rice and beans. I envy folks with big oil or propane tanks. A woodlot would be the best; all you need is a rocket stove and you're golden.

I'm going to have to rethink the food situation.


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## dwight55

A vast, vast portion of the world has for centuries, . . . relied upon rice as THE main staple to their diets.

And a vast, vast portion of the world below the Rio Grande, . . . rely today on BEANS as a main staple in their diets.

Neither area is totally abundant in free natural gas, propane, electric, or Sterno, . . . and yet they manage quite well.

Maybe take a look at how you are managing your fuel, . . . as opposed to the fuel you manage.

Sticks and grass can cook a lot of food if done right.

Edited: just noticed you live in Western PA, . . . home of all kinds of trees & bushes, . . . cepting of course, Heinz field.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Coastie dad

Just a suggestion... experiment and try...
I found that cooking beans and rice in individual kettles uses less fuel because less water to heat. If there was s just two of you, a small kettle or pot with servings for one meal each will cook faster.


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## SOCOM42

@sideKahr, Your cooking problem comes from the Sterno, it burns at too low a temp. for cooking, it is formulated that way.

Their primary use is with chafing dishes, just to keep the product hot.

The white gas in a Coleman will get the job done, I have used my single burner job for exactly what you are doing.

I have in the past used the Coleman to heat a lead pot for casting bullets.

Only difference is the rice to bean ratio, mine is 3 to 1.

If you can, get a larger pot and put it upside down over the bean pot, that will almost double the relative applied heat to the bean pot.

What works best for me is a dutch oven on the wood stove all day simmering with rice added last half hour both ways.

That makes enough for us for three days of meals.


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## Illini Warrior

you need a pressure cooker even if you do a long soak ....


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## jim-henscheli

I have had the same issues with my rice and beans, and have decided a pressure cooker is what's needed, I actually started a thread on it a few weeks back. I have since obtained a pressure cooker, review to come.
One other thing, when soaking your beans, soak only with salt and water, no spices. Cook for the first 1/3 of cook time with salt only, then add spices. It's a thigh-ence thing, I don't really know why it's so, but it is.


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## Ragnarök

sideKahr said:


> Okay, so I'm reorganizing my food preps, and I decided to do a real-world test. I extracted a cup of white rice and a cup of pinto beans stored 3-4 years ago. I soaked the beans overnight to make traditional rice and beans. Since this was a test of prepper style cooking, I seasoned with old dehydrated onions, chilli powder, cumin, and garlic salt. I used sterno for fuel.
> 
> View attachment 46410
> 
> 
> The dish was delicious. But that's not the problem. It took 4+ hours and 2 cans of sterno to get everything cooked and softened up. And these were the large, restaurant grade, made in the USA, gen-u-whine sterno's. And the amount of food prepared was not a lot, only about 4 cups. Rice and beans is very fuel-intensive.
> 
> I have a lot of rice and beans, they're cheap, and they last a long time. But the problem of cooking them is one I haven't solved. I stock propane, charcoal, white gas, and alcohol for various other methods of cooking; but none of them will last long making rice and beans. I envy folks with big oil or propane tanks. A woodlot would be the best; all you need is a rocket stove and you're golden.
> 
> I'm going to have to rethink the food situation.


You bring up good points. Did you soak the beans for a day before boiling them? Were they soaked at room temperature? If you soak beans in the fridge they take much longer to absorb the moisture I have found. I think that low temperature tightens up the outer walls of the beans or any food you are prepping. Also have found that adding any vinegar to the solution changes the cell structure and inhibites absorbstion....salt does as well. My best results come from soaking beans in only water and at room temp.

Others mention the type of fuel you are using and I agree if you are saving fuel expenditure imo the best way is to use the coals and placing the pot of beans directly in the coals and covering for an extended amount of time.

It may be a good idea to filter to water you use from the faucet because any additions like chlorine or other minerals can affect the beans cell membrane after soaking.

One very big component to cooking is patience and self restraint. For example when you are cooking rice never remove the lid to check if it is done. By doing so you have just f'd up your rice. I cook rice with a slice of ginger, 1 tablespoon of rice wine vinegar, and 1.33333 cups of water for every cup of rice for 16 minutes after the mixture has reached boiling point, covered and reduced to a simmer.

...forgive my editing..I have been drinking.


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## Redneck

My experience with cooking red beans & rice is with an overnight soak, is it takes around 3-4 hours for the beans to cook. I agree with @SOCOM42 that Sterno is a pretty poor choice for cooking fuel. From what I remember of western PA, you have plenty of trees, so why use Sterno and not a rocket stove? You would be using readily available fuel that is renewable. With a rocket stove the heat is concentrated and is very efficient.

This is my largest rocket stove but I have several.


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## 8301

I looked at the cooking rice and beans years ago and it became obvious that while during the winter months you can just keep a pot on the wood stove during the warmer months this wasn't a viable method. I tried the Solar Oven with less than stellar results although it will work on long sunny days. The dome over the top on an induction hotplate (or camp stove) Socom mentioned also does hold the heat in.

Later cooking was one of the reasons I added the solar. A Instant Pot pressure cooker is my most energy efficient way of cooking rice ect in a low odor way.


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## Robie

I cook my fair share of beans...mostly Great Northern's for old fashion baked beans with molasses and salt pork.

I have had my fair share of problems getting the beans to soften up, even after soaking, boiling and baking in a bean pot for 8 hours.

My parents made these a few times per month...my grandparents and my aunts...all bake beans and have no problem.

After talking with my aunt about this....the problem narrows down to "old beans".

If I buy a package and use it right away...no problem.

If they sit in the pantry for 6 months...they stay fairly hard.

That's all I've got.

Plus....don't use salt until the beans have opened up their shells a bit. Apparently, salt is supposed to keep them from softening up.


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## sideKahr

Robie said:


> ...I have had my fair share of problems getting the beans to soften up, even after soaking...After talking with my aunt about this....the problem narrows down to "old beans".
> 
> If I buy a package and use it right away...no problem.
> 
> If they sit in the pantry for 6 months...they stay fairly hard.


Yep, I agree. I think rice behaves the same way.


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## Robie

I am still using what is left of a 20 lb bag of rice that is probably 5 years old.

I don't have any problem with it at all.

1 cup rice...two cups liquid...bring to a boil...cover and simmer as low as I can get it for 22 minutes.

Turns out perfect every time.


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## sideKahr

@Robie The old rice I used yesterday was still al dente at 1 1/2 hours. Maybe because of the low sterno temps, as others have suggested.


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## sideKahr

John Galt said:


> ...cooking was one of the reasons I added the solar. A Instant Pot pressure cooker is my most energy efficient way of cooking rice ect in a low odor way.


Pressure cooking looks promising. My solar system is going to be fairly small; I'll have about 800 watt-hours of usable energy. I assume a resistance type heater such as this pot uses a lot of power. Do you know how much power such a device uses for a typical rice and beans cook, and how long it takes?

-edit- Okay, I see that most models use 1000 watts. How fast do they cook rice and beans, please?


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## Redneck

sideKahr said:


> -edit- Okay, I see that most models use 1000 watts. How fast do they cook rice and beans, please?


What's the rush? All beans, from Yankee style up north to red beans down south, do best when simmered slow.

In Louisiana, Monday is the day of the week for red beans & rice. Back in the 19th century, Monday was wash day, and it took all day, so they needed a low maintenance dish for dinner. The beans cooked low & slow all day & normally the ham bone from Sunday's dinner was added to the pot.


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## sideKahr

******* said:


> What's the rush? All beans, from Yankee style up north to red beans down south, do best when simmered slow.


No rush at all, if I'm using any cooking method other than electricity. I'm trying to find out if my tiny solar panel-battery setup has enough guts to pressure cook electrically, in a grid-down situation.


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## Redneck

sideKahr said:


> No rush at all, if I'm using any cooking method other than electricity. I'm trying to find out if my tiny solar panel-battery setup has enough guts to pressure cook electrically, in a grid-down situation.


Just my opinion, but I'd save the electric for essential electrical items, such as lights, battery operated tools, etc. Sure wouldn't expend amp hours on beans. I'd cook the beans over a fuel stove of some sort or another. You have a rocket stove?


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## sideKahr

******* said:


> Just my opinion, but I'd save the electric for essential electrical items, such as lights, battery operated tools, etc. Sure wouldn't expend amp hours on beans. I'd cook the beans over a fuel stove of some sort or another. You have a rocket stove?


Not yet, but that's going to change.

I have light covered with oil lamps, but I don't plan on showing much light after dark anyway in a serious power outage. 
You may be right about saving the electricity for more vital things. I'm set up for charging batteries for flashlites and radios. But as long as the sun can keep the batteries high enough, a pot of beans once in a while would be good, especially if I can do it without producing the trouble attracting smells.


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## Salt-N-Pepper

I am TOTALLY going to check that stove out, *******...

BTW the link to the stove listed above is InStove | Multi-use Institutional Rocket Stoves


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## Redneck

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I am TOTALLY going to check that stove out, *******...
> 
> BTW the link to the stove listed above is InStove | Multi-use Institutional Rocket Stoves


That stove is designed for folks like me, that might have a crowd show up on the farm during a crisis. That, plus I'll be feeding neighbors too. It is quite the stove & is rather impressive but overkill if just feeding a few folks. Lots of great, small rocket stoves out there plus one can make your own rather easily. I have a couple of Ecozoom Versas.


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## NKAWTG

Well from a BTU perspective, alcohol fuel produces between 10 and 12,000 BTU's per pound, whereas propane will net 21,000 BTU's per pound of fuel. That's the disadvantage of doing real cooking with alcohol fuels, much lower heat.
In lieu of propane to cook, a decent rocket stove would serve well.


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## Maine-Marine

consider soaking over night and PRESSURE cooking


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## Joe

@sideKhar 2 things I would consider. First older beans do get hard over time. In the future you can grind those beans and add them to your wheat flour so dont throw them away. I would look at butane stoves if you want something handy and hot. The downside to butane is you cant use it out of doors if it is real cold. I have a Deadwood rocket stove which is the bomb. you can get an awesome hot fire with a small amount of fuel.


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## C.L.Ripley

I use a thermal cooker. You just boil your food for a few minutes and the cooker does the rest. I don't know why more preppers don't use them. They require no fuel and give off no odor while they cook your food. And they work. You can find many different sizes with varying prices. But they all basically do the same thing. There is even something called the wonderbag that looks like a big bean bag or something, but they say it works the same way.

The only thing I've found with them is, they seem to work better if you have the pot at least halfway full. But sometimes I'll cook a small portion for 2-3 hours and if it's not quite done just start again and let it cook it for another couple hours.

This is the one I've had for a couple years and have no complaints, but you could find something much cheaper on ebay that does the same thing.

https://www.amazon.com/Thermos-Nissan-Thermal-Cookware/dp/B000NZV95C/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1496267093&sr=8-7&keywords=thermal+cooker


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## Prepared One

You can make a good rocket stove out of bricks or cinder blocks easy enough. I keep cinder blocks around in case needed and they are cheap enough. You can keep it simple or make multi stove tops. I cooked rice on one I put together in no time and even tossed a steak on it. ( My wife thought I was nuts )


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## Illini Warrior

when you suggest wood burning and rocket type stoves as an only solution - keep your cooking OPSEC in mind - initially you need a fuel source that'll allow cooking to be contained .... firing up any grub is just going to be ringing the dinner bell for the salivating sheeple ....


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## Redneck

Prepared One said:


> You can make a good rocket stove out of bricks or cinder blocks easy enough. I keep cinder blocks around in case needed and they are cheap enough.


Yes, but keep in mind, such bricks & cinder blocks aren't designed for the high heat and can crack with repeated use. A failure of the brick could possibly cause a pot of hot food to come crashing down and possibly cause injury... not something you want in a crisis. I stock fire brick instead which are designed for the high temp of a wood fire. My bricks would be used for temporary rocket stoves or the base of a bread oven.


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## Redneck

Illini Warrior said:


> when you suggest wood burning and rocket type stoves as an only solution - keep your cooking OPSEC in mind - initially you need a fuel source that'll allow cooking to be contained .... firing up any grub is just going to be ringing the dinner bell for the salivating sheeple ....


What fuel source allows cooking to be contained, whatever that means? IMO, fire will be needed for all sorts of purposes besides cooking. Granted, if you are in a dangerous environment, I'd suggest eating peanut butter.


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## bigdogmom

There are a couple other things to consider here.

First off, we have a wood stove inside the house, inside the shop and just upgraded our range to propane, which can be lit manually if needed. For an OPSEC sistuation, we will use the range inside the house. It is hooked up to a 120 gallon tank, which according to the average, should last us a couple years from full. 

We also have an old wood stove outside in the yard. Right now it is used for outdoor fires, but it also doubles as another cooking surface during the summer. Old wood stoves can be had for dirt cheap, even free. They do take some practice to get good at cooking on, but are a great option.

The other thing to consider is a Dutch oven cooking pit. Again, it will require some practice because true Dutch oven cooking is a knack, but very fun and can definitely handle almost every type of food imaginable 

Droid did it!


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## MaterielGeneral

For cooking stoves I have the wood stove during the winter and propane stove with the 1lb tank refill adapter for the 20lb tank.

For outdoor cooking this grill rocks
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RiverGrille-Cowboy-31-in-Charcoal-Grill-and-Fire-Pit-GR1038
I bought one last year and don't regret it one bit.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Pir8fan

sideKahr said:


> Okay, so I'm reorganizing my food preps, and I decided to do a real-world test. I extracted a cup of white rice and a cup of pinto beans stored 3-4 years ago. I soaked the beans overnight to make traditional rice and beans. Since this was a test of prepper style cooking, I seasoned with old dehydrated onions, chilli powder, cumin, and garlic salt. I used sterno for fuel.
> 
> View attachment 46410
> 
> 
> The dish was delicious. But that's not the problem. It took 4+ hours and 2 cans of sterno to get everything cooked and softened up. And these were the large, restaurant grade, made in the USA, gen-u-whine sterno's. And the amount of food prepared was not a lot, only about 4 cups. Rice and beans is very fuel-intensive.
> 
> I have a lot of rice and beans, they're cheap, and they last a long time. But the problem of cooking them is one I haven't solved. I stock propane, charcoal, white gas, and alcohol for various other methods of cooking; but none of them will last long making rice and beans. I envy folks with big oil or propane tanks. A woodlot would be the best; all you need is a rocket stove and you're golden.
> 
> I'm going to have to rethink the food situation.


Old fashioned fire and a dutch oven would be my choice. Assuming 3-4 years after a disaster, I would likely have settled down and so wouldn't still be dependent on portable fire & fuel sources.


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## Real Old Man

sideKahr said:


> Okay, so I'm reorganizing my food preps, and I decided to do a real-world test. I extracted a cup of white rice and a cup of pinto beans stored 3-4 years ago. I soaked the beans overnight to make traditional rice and beans. Since this was a test of prepper style cooking, I seasoned with old dehydrated onions, chilli powder, cumin, and garlic salt. I used sterno for fuel.
> 
> View attachment 46410
> 
> 
> The dish was delicious. But that's not the problem. It took 4+ hours and 2 cans of sterno to get everything cooked and softened up. And these were the large, restaurant grade, made in the USA, gen-u-whine sterno's. And the amount of food prepared was not a lot, only about 4 cups. Rice and beans is very fuel-intensive.
> 
> I have a lot of rice and beans, they're cheap, and they last a long time. But the problem of cooking them is one I haven't solved. I stock propane, charcoal, white gas, and alcohol for various other methods of cooking; but none of them will last long making rice and beans. I envy folks with big oil or propane tanks. A woodlot would be the best; all you need is a rocket stove and you're golden.
> 
> I'm going to have to rethink the food situation.


It is a korean style to mix sticky rice and beans (mung, soy etc) soak for a while and cook in a rice cooker. comes out really good and no concrete beans

Healthy Rice and Beans Recipe Prepared in a Rice Cooker : The Reluctant Gourmet


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## 8301

sideKahr said:


> Okay, I see that most models use 1000 watts. How fast do they cook rice and beans, please?


I used the Instant Pot to steam some cabbage last night. It took about 10 minutes (probably at full power) to hit the "medium steam" pressure and the cook time was 2 minutes from there. I believe rice takes 3-4 minutes after "steam pressure" is achieved.


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## 8301

John Galt said:


> I used the Instant Pot to steam some cabbage last night. It took about 10 minutes (probably at full power) to hit the "medium steam" pressure and the cook time was 2 minutes from there. I believe rice takes 3-4 minutes after "steam pressure" is achieved.


They say an induction cooker is the best for providing heat vs electricity but I think a microwave would also be high on that list.


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## yooper_sjd

C.L.Ripley said:


> I use a thermal cooker. You just boil your food for a few minutes and the cooker does the rest. I don't know why more preppers don't use them. They require no fuel and give off no odor while they cook your food. And they work. You can find many different sizes with varying prices. But they all basically do the same thing. There is even something called the wonderbag that looks like a big bean bag or something, but they say it works the same way.
> 
> The only thing I've found with them is, they seem to work better if you have the pot at least halfway full. But sometimes I'll cook a small portion for 2-3 hours and if it's not quite done just start again and let it cook it for another couple hours.
> 
> This is the one I've had for a couple years and have no complaints, but you could find something much cheaper on ebay that does the same thing.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Thermos-Nissan-Thermal-Cookware/dp/B000NZV95C/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1496267093&sr=8-7&keywords=thermal+cooker


for that price, I will just use my dutch oven and coal bed.


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## 8301

C.L.Ripley said:


> I use a thermal cooker. You just boil your food for a few minutes and the cooker does the rest.


But you still need a lot of heat energy to get it up to the boiling temperature and the thermal barrier it uses to help hold the heat will require still more energy to get up to temperature.


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## Redneck

IMO, it is much less the matter of what cooking technology works best in a crisis, but what fuel you have readily available. Fuel is the key. You may have some alcohol or some bottled gas but for most, they will eventually run out. For the vast majority of Americans, wood is always available... be it from a tree or from wood used in construction. So I suggest you determine what fuel you will always have handy & then picking the best cooker for that fuel.

Sterno just happens to be about the worst cooker & fuel I could think of for SHTF.


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## SOCOM42

@*******, you are right about wood.

I have more than enough standing timber to last my lifetime x2.

I also have as interim fuel, 100 gallons of Coleman fuel, a dozen 100 pound propane tanks and 1,750 gallons of kerosene.

I have two Alpaca kerosene cooking stoves, plus 4 Coleman 2 and 3 burner gasoline ones.

My everyday stove is my propane kitchen stove which will run without electricty, Two 100 pound tanks last about 18 months under normal usage.

Back to the wood, I have a total of three wood stoves, two are standby if SHTF.

The third is used every year for supplemental heat and cooking.

To harvest that wood, Three chain saws with spares, one NIB husky, 25 ton log splitter, all for use until the fuel runs out.

I do five cord a year by myself, would go to six or a max of seven SHTF.

Then I have two, two man Simonds X-cut saws, axes and assorted related equipment to continue taking down trees.


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## sideKahr

******* said:


> ...Sterno just happens to be about the worst cooker & fuel I could think of for SHTF.


Thanks, guys, for all your good advice. I have a lot to learn.


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## TacticalCanuck

Interesting thread glad I checked it out. I have a wood burning pit with a chain hanging cooking surface. It's what I would use so time isn't super important just the fact that I get to eat is. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## charito

sideKahr said:


> Okay, so I'm reorganizing my food preps, and I decided to do a real-world test. I extracted a cup of white rice and a cup of pinto beans stored 3-4 years ago. I soaked the beans overnight to make traditional rice and beans. Since this was a test of prepper style cooking, I seasoned with old dehydrated onions, chilli powder, cumin, and garlic salt. I used sterno for fuel.
> 
> View attachment 46410
> 
> 
> The dish was delicious. But that's not the problem. It took 4+ hours and 2 cans of sterno to get everything cooked and softened up. And these were the large, restaurant grade, made in the USA, gen-u-whine sterno's. And the amount of food prepared was not a lot, only about 4 cups. Rice and beans is very fuel-intensive.
> 
> I have a lot of rice and beans, they're cheap, and they last a long time. But the problem of cooking them is one I haven't solved. I stock propane, charcoal, white gas, and alcohol for various other methods of cooking; but none of them will last long making rice and beans. I envy folks with big oil or propane tanks. A woodlot would be the best; all you need is a rocket stove and you're golden.
> 
> I'm going to have to rethink the food situation.


From mason jar meals, I've just learned that regular oats can be soaked overnight, and eaten as is, the next day. 
No cooking involved. Soaking it with milk (made from powder) would be great in survival scenario.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/244251/no-cook-overnight-oatmeal/

I wonder what happens if rice is soaked overnight? Would that cut the cooking time?

Mung beans (being small) doesn't need longer cooking like bigger beans.


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## SOCOM42

You can bring rice to a boil, cover and turn off burner.

About 15-20 minutes later check it, reheat if needed to finish the job or bring back up to boil.

I do my rice on a gas burner, bring to a boil,

move to rear burner set as low as possible, looks like a white La Brea tar pit burping.

If you have one of those Thermos type pots, bring to a boil and dump it in, will continue to cook until done.


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