# Your isolated safe-house in the middle of nowhere - do you stand out?



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

I was watching the movie Z for Zechariah last night - it's about lone survivors in a post apocalyptic world. The mountains, the woods, the vista were so breathtaking. At one point the camera panned from a higher vantage point, and peeping among the tree tops is a big house - all by itself high up in the wilds. What a perfect place to be in a SHTF world. BUT there's only one BIG problem: the house stood out because of its _color._
It's this big blue among the trees!

If that house were mine, I'd be up from a far off vantage point checking it out from various angles, and paint it camouflage, blending with the trees and backdrop - including the windows (to prevent any glinting from the sun), and its roof! It'll have to be like a chameleon.
I'll be checking it out through the eyes of hikers.

To those who are now in seclusion or in isolated spots - is your house prepped outside?
Is it as "invisible" as you can possibly make it?

Another thing to consider is that noise can echo in the valley. The sound of motor running (like a chain saw), or bangings from a hammer, can be very loud. Do you have a place prepared to do your carpentry that muffles the sound? A padded barn perhaps?

What can we do about the smoke from a chimney? It sends the clearest signal from afar.

Is there a well-worn path that leads to your place? What can you do to hide it?

Let's all pretend we're planning our safe-houses. Let's be creative about it!
What will you do?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

How about that big generator roaring away and light discipline?? Having the only light on during a power outage will attract the unwanted like flies, you know. 

Chimney smoke can be cut down by using good dry firewood and only burn at night. How you cover up the smell??

You will never be able to hide completely from the unwanted. Once the SHTF they will march out of the cities like rats into the country side and be a complete drain and devastate the prepared country folks. Think the plan should be more based on taking care of the threat then trying to hide. The further away from the dwelling the better.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

I camo'd my BOL so well 17 years ago I still can't find it. :vs_laugh:


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

My house . . . looks like a house . . . simple, . . . non-descript . . . at the back of a 600 ft lane . . . that will be guarded and protected 24/7.

A simple crossbuck will block the drive . . . 

Trespassing will be a perilous thing to do in those days.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Unless you build an Underground Bunker with an endless supply of resources, there is always a chance of someone finding your BOL.

Best bet is to play "The Probability Game". Decrease the probability that someone will easily find you. Distance from population, rough terrain, camouflage entrances, good blinds to cover up lighting, quiet generator, Barn with Siding to muffle work noises, etc.

But like Chipper mentions, a fire produces smoke and smell and that can be detected. Hard to cover that up.

You cannot see Slippy Lodge from the county road, or even the private gated gravel access road. A person has to get halfway up my driveway to see the lights even in the winter time when leaves are down. But you will notice the Red, Yellow and Green flourescent colored wood squares fastened to trees along my driveway. Those are yard markers. Easier to hit your target when you know the yardage. :vs_laugh:


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Chipper said:


> Once the SHTF they will march out of the cities like rats into the country side and be a complete drain and devastate the prepared country folks. Think the plan should be more based on taking care of the threat then trying to hide. The further away from the dwelling the better.


I have a theory on that & hope I'm correct. I believe, once they start leaving the cities, that the suburbs will block their passage. It would be in their best interest to do so & actually has happened in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. Gretna & county police sealed the bridge over the Mississippi river & even shot over the heads of the folks fleeing. I really think most suburbs have given this some thought but even if they haven't, when facing that situation, they will have to do something. I feel they will set up roadblocks on bridges and other natural barricades. That will stop all the motor traffic and force those wanting to continue to walk. They won't walk far. By the time they get out to my place, their numbers will have dwindled and normal security precautions should suffice.

That is why I prep for my neighbors. Not only does that ensure their survival but it gives us enough folks for proper security.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Majority of people will perish within a few weeks due to natural causes. 
Unless people band together to rebuild something, being alone is deadly.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I walk out in camo or orange (deer season) so I don't stand out.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Unless you build an Underground Bunker with an endless supply of resources, there is always a chance of someone finding your BOL.
> 
> Best bet is to play "The Probability Game". Decrease the probability that someone will easily find you. Distance from population, rough terrain, camouflage entrances, good blinds to cover up lighting, quiet generator, Barn with Siding to muffle work noises, etc.
> 
> ...


I've been on same land since born. Yardage started with air rifles, then 22LR, then Shotguns CF rifles . Longest shot I can take is 400yds in a field, never done that here. But I know the tree that is 200yds away. :tango_face_wink: And which way the wind blows.

Close to home I've been doing pest removal years now. I shoot vermin year round, then bigger stuff I can do head shots, w/air rifle. Chimunk/red squirrel is a small target. I'm good on chucks, 35 yds .177









hole is right below the ear, off hand w/springer


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

I just can't see huge groups of people, leaving the city in hopes of handouts. After a crisis, they are going to loot everything in the city & wait for government handouts. By the time they figure out help is not coming, it will be too late. Large groups require organization and you most certainly won't have that. Large groups will fight among themselves over whatever resources can be found. Large groups will spread disease quickly as sanitation breaks down. Large groups will not only fight among themselves but also fight other groups.

So I see life in the city as being unlivable. I think the suburbs will be in better shape but it will be tough containing those that want to flee the city. Those fairly far out, past the suburbs, will see less evacuees and if there are groups that do wander out into the country, I think you will see those small towns likewise blocking entry. So if you live a rural life, you should have at least 2 blocking forces... the suburbs and the small towns further out.

But regarding me standing out... not really. I live out from a small town. I live off a small county road headed to nowhere. I live about a mile off that county road, down a dead end lane with about 10 families living on it. Pretty quiet out here. Plus, I have suppressors for most all my guns.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Personally, I don't think 'living out in the sticks', out-of-sight from the road, is going to help as much as you think it will. When the city folks start making tracks on the backroads, they'll wise up to what a driveway and a mailbox means fairly quickly. They're likely aware that country bumpkins are a bit more self-reliant than they are, so they will know what's in all those farmhouses. And when they're desperate and hungry enough, they'll be coming down the driveway.

Yeah, you may be armed, but you still gotta sleep sometime. You can't assign yourself sniper duty forever.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

******* said:


> I just can't see huge groups of people, leaving the city in hopes of handouts. After a crisis, they are going to loot everything in the city & wait for government handouts. By the time they figure out help is not coming, it will be too late. Large groups require organization and you most certainly won't have that. Large groups will fight among themselves over whatever resources can be found. Large groups will spread disease quickly as sanitation breaks down. Large groups will not only fight among themselves but also fight other groups.
> 
> So I see life in the city as being unlivable. I think the suburbs will be in better shape but it will be tough containing those that want to flee the city. Those fairly far out, past the suburbs, will see less evacuees and if there are groups that do wander out into the country, I think you will see those small towns likewise blocking entry. So if you live a rural life, you should have at least 2 blocking forces... the suburbs and the small towns further out.
> 
> But regarding me standing out... not really. I live out from a small town. I live off a small county road headed to nowhere. I live about a mile off that county road, down a dead end lane with about 10 families living on it. Pretty quiet out here. Plus, I have suppressors for most all my guns.


D-Rats 
(regular rodents too) and vermin know not any limits. Same as rest of government.

keep safe, be ready, God bless You.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

******* said:


> I just can't see huge groups of people, leaving the city in hopes of handouts. After a crisis, they are going to loot everything in the city & wait for government handouts. By the time they figure out help is not coming, it will be too late. Large groups require organization and you most certainly won't have that. Large groups will fight among themselves over whatever resources can be found. Large groups will spread disease quickly as sanitation breaks down. Large groups will not only fight among themselves but also fight other groups.
> 
> So I see life in the city as being unlivable. I think the suburbs will be in better shape but it will be tough containing those that want to flee the city. Those fairly far out, past the suburbs, will see less evacuees and if there are groups that do wander out into the country, I think you will see those small towns likewise blocking entry. So if you live a rural life, you should have at least 2 blocking forces... the suburbs and the small towns further out.
> 
> But regarding me standing out... not really. I live out from a small town. I live off a small county road headed to nowhere. I live about a mile off that county road, down a dead end lane with about 10 families living on it. Pretty quiet out here. Plus, I have suppressors for most all my guns.


We understand you.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Personally, I don't think 'living out in the sticks', out-of-sight from the road, is going to help as much as you think it will. When the city folks start making tracks on the backroads, they'll wise up to what a driveway and a mailbox means fairly quickly. They're likely aware that country bumpkins are a bit more self-reliant than they are, so they will know what's in all those farmhouses. And when they're desperate and hungry enough, they'll be coming down the driveway.
> 
> Yeah, you may be armed, but you still gotta sleep sometime. You can't assign yourself sniper duty forever.


You got a wife/GF that can shoot BPH? That's 1/2 that battle.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Of course we'd try to make it to the Grand Coulee place in a SHTF situation. It's fairly remote and the environment is pretty harsh...not welcoming to starving walkers. Really cold in the winter and blazing hot in the summer, but the really limiting factor for anyone trying to walk out of the city (Spokane is 80 miles away) is that there's no water. Of course if people come by vehicle, all bets are off. But literally everyone (even the liberal neighbors) has guns and knows how to use them. If it were really necessary, the road could be blocked so that the neighborhood could only be reached on foot or by ORV. Or boat, obviously, because the lake is right there, but you can't boat downstream from Spokane.


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

Don't have everything set up yet but my plan is passive solar earth bermed home, so that means 3 out of 4 sides of the home are underground. Front side would be of bullet resistant glass due to rare hunters might get to close to house and let a round loose in wrong direction, with steel fold down shutters painted to same color of the land. Unlike a lot of people I have thought this through, I have been keeping my work covered up with camo netting and scattered dirt and debris cause if you look up you already have been had by satellite imagery of there being a house there. 
Go ahead and look up my grid coordinates, how true are those as you won't find anything there, it's called power of deception. There is tunnels being dug as to not just for SHTF scenario but it's nice to not trod through feet deep of snow. 
As for off grid, I'm 50 miles down a rock road which then 4 miles off that road of clay and such with no neighbors for 4 miles, mail runs 3 days a week here and it's so remote when I bought the place it didn't have a address, I gave it one, but the real guessing game is of the 50 acres I own it's actually two properties one that I can fall back to that doesn't have a address. You can find the driveway but that might be ones demise. No utilities run here it's all off grid on solar, cell phone service is zilch when you leave 3 miles from the city, no satellite dishes I get service through a booster. 
It isn't flat here I have ridges, hills and ravines to hide in, behind and on top of, also I'm butted up against thousands of acres of state and BLM land to play on. I'm a combat vet who can weld/fabricate, turn wrenches on anything, know PV systems and electrical, plumbing carpentry, concrete and also in great shape keep in great health and add that all up it's not ideal person to try and raid. Not perfect but always improving with time and checking over everything for different scenarios. There is range markers here also that I have marked off i.e. rocks trees and I have someone who is as crazy as me 
Yes one has to sleep, there will be others when it comes time with roving patrol, stand to and stand downs with one up one down sleep schedules. Might of left the service but the service didn't leave me. What the eyes see the ears hear the mind believes.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> You got a wife/GF that can shoot BPH? That's 1/2 that battle.


More like another 1/50th of the battle.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

charito said:


> I was watching the movie Z for Zechariah last night - it's about lone survivors in a post apocalyptic world. The mountains, the woods, the vista were so breathtaking. At one point the camera panned from a higher vantage point, and peeping among the tree tops is a big house - all by itself high up in the wilds. What a perfect place to be in a SHTF world. BUT there's only one BIG problem: the house stood out because of its _color._
> It's this big blue among the trees!
> 
> If that house were mine, I'd be up from a far off vantage point checking it out from various angles, and paint it camouflage, blending with the trees and backdrop - including the windows (to prevent any glinting from the sun), and its roof! It'll have to be like a chameleon.
> ...


Lets study history....lets learn from the past. instead of blanket ourselves in ignorance and idiocracy. There is a reason that people built dugouts. There was a reason indians had tee-pees. There are reasons that good Rangers and Green Berets setup in the shitty-ist of places that are hard to get to, impossible to see, and appear as though they are the last place on earth a person would go.

So...if your prepping for a short term thing....go for the views...the off grid power...the independence. If your prepping for a melt down... start thinking about not being where the vermin will go...and what you need to be if they find you.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Personally, I don't think 'living out in the sticks', out-of-sight from the road, is going to help as much as you think it will. When the city folks start making tracks on the backroads, they'll wise up to what a driveway and a mailbox means fairly quickly. They're likely aware that country bumpkins are a bit more self-reliant than they are, so they will know what's in all those farmhouses. And when they're desperate and hungry enough, they'll be coming down the driveway.


There is a misconception, obviously even among preppers, that country folk have large stockpiles of food for the long winter ahead. That is dead wrong. First of all, most country folk aren't farmers and the vast majority don't even have gardens. They are regular folk, most no more prepared than your average city slicker. And what farmers we have, at least around here, grow things like cotton & soy beans... and the beans aren't stored on farm in huge bins. The majority of the farmers around me don't grow any crops at all. They grow grass to feed their cows. Once the cows are gone, there will be no more food out here than in the city.

I understand there are no guarantees in this world. The most prepared can be overrun. But I do feel there are things that can be done to increase the odds in your favor, and living a rural life is one.



Back Pack Hack said:


> Yeah, you may be armed, but you still gotta sleep sometime. You can't assign yourself sniper duty forever.


Of course, and why I prep for all the neighbors on our lane. During a crisis, we will form a community for joint protection, to raise crops & to guard the cows.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> I camo'd my BOL so well 17 years ago I still can't find it. :vs_laugh:


:vs_laugh:


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

In a severe post-apoc SHTF situation where a plague or something has wiped out 99% of the world's population, my survival group will be moving into a big country house like this after giving the previous owners a decent burial, and we'll call it 'Doomsday Hall' haha..
Note the razor wire perimeter for security-


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

******* said:


> There is a misconception, obviously even among preppers, that country folk have large stockpiles of food for the long winter ahead.........


And therein lies the problem.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Eyeball said:


> In a severe post-apoc SHTF situation where a plague or something has wiped out 99% of the world's population, my survival group will be moving into a big country house like this after giving the previous owners a decent burial, and we'll call it 'Doomsday Hall' haha..
> Note the razor wire perimeter for security-


Pfft. Rookie!


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

While they're eating each other in the cities, we'll be growing our own stuff at the Hall..


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Cool! An all-you-can-eat salad bar!


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

Thought about building a decoy house 400-600 sq ft. that can be seen and looks as livable with driveway and whole T post barb wire fence, then dig several tunnels with several doors from it to nowhere that's obvious to find in the house and collapse the tunnel they are in when they raid it. Also I figure the tax man would see outside and tax it accordingly not knowing there is a passive solar earth bermed concrete home three times the size of the decoy home not to be seen on other side of a ridge.
I own a backhoe so digging tunnels isn't hard, maybe have a excavator one day to go deeper down.


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

Eyeball said:


> In a severe post-apoc SHTF situation where a plague or something has wiped out 99% of the world's population, my survival group will be moving into a big country house like this after giving the previous owners a decent burial, and we'll call it 'Doomsday Hall' haha..
> Note the razor wire perimeter for security-


Pop a few smokes, can be through that easily with a bangalore torpedo :vs_laugh:


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Weldman said:


> Pop a few smokes, can be through that easily with a bangalore torpedo :vs_laugh:


Yeah and wire cutters could do it too, you're welcome to try if you think we won't have sentries out..
Army doctrine- _"An obstacle not covered by fire is not an obstacle"_

Meet Doomsday Hall's Head of Security-


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> And therein lies the problem.


Which will be rectified after these folks first hit the country. They will soon find there is no food at these houses and will soon find country folks banning together.


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## Big Boy in MO (Jan 22, 2018)

Eyeball said:


> While they're eating each other in the cities, we'll be growing our own stuff at the Hall..


I do believe that book is in my stash "The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency by John Seymour".


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Pfft. Rookie!
> 
> View attachment 109495


Nice, and I hear Charlie used to do that stuff..


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Double post...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

******* said:


> There is a misconception, obviously even among preppers, that country folk have large stockpiles of food for the long winter ahead. That is dead wrong. First of all, most country folk aren't farmers and the vast majority don't even have gardens. They are regular folk, most no more prepared than your average city slicker. And what farmers we have, at least around here, grow things like cotton & soy beans... and the beans aren't stored on farm in huge bins. The majority of the farmers around me don't grow any crops at all. They grow grass to feed their cows. Once the cows are gone, there will be no more food out here than in the city.
> 
> I understand there are no guarantees in this world. The most prepared can be overrun. But I do feel there are things that can be done to increase the odds in your favor, and living a rural life is one.
> 
> Of course, and why I prep for all the neighbors on our lane. During a crisis, we will form a community for joint protection, to raise crops & to guard the cows.


Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong; I mean that. But I suspect more than half those neighbors are unworthy of you. They may cause you more trouble than good fortune. How well do you really know them?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

******* said:


> Which will be rectified after these folks first hit the country. They will soon find there is no food at these houses and will soon find country folks banning together.


Wait. What? If there's no stores in those chateaus, why are the people staying there to defend them?


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Eyeball said:


> In a severe post-apoc SHTF situation where a plague or something has wiped out 99% of the world's population, my survival group will be moving into a big country house like this after giving the previous owners a decent burial, and we'll call it 'Doomsday Hall' haha..
> Note the razor wire perimeter for security-


In a severe post apocalyptic times....my team plans to kill those folks who live here...and take their stuff as our stuff.....We will then blow the bridge up....


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Annie said:


> Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong; I mean that. But I suspect more than half those neighbors are unworthy of you. They may cause you more trouble than good fortune. How well do you really know them?


Some real well... others in passing.

I've expressed my views on neighbors a lot here but I'll recap. IMO, the biggest threat during a SHTF crisis is not a huge gang of city folks taking a stroll out in the country. It is from the people in close... your neighbors. Who knows if you will have to fight off a gang of hungry folk from the city but what is guaranteed is that your hungry neighbors become a threat once they realize their survival is in jeopardy.

Yes, there is a possibility of issues with some, I just can't say. I'd like to think once the reality sets in, that most folk will leap at the opportunity to work together for the common good... and to stay fed. I choose to take that risk. IMO, there is MUCH greater risk from hungry, desperate neighbors. They have every right to be around, so you can't run them off or shoot them. But if you are doing well and they are starving, then they most certainly will cause trouble. I'm not Rambo like many preppers fanaticize. I know conflict is the last thing anyone wants during a crisis. Therefore I prep accordingly and stock extra food and seed for my neighbors.

Most of my neighbors are good ole country folk that love to hunt. All are armed. So @Annie, how would you deal with such neighbors? Would you say tough shit, you should have prepped? You gonna tell those kids to go starve quietly while you eat? You have to have a plan on how to deal with these folks that live next to you. I have mine. What do you recommend? I'm all ears if you have a better plan.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

******* said:


> Some real well... others in passing.
> 
> I've expressed my views on neighbors a lot here but I'll recap. IMO, the biggest threat during a SHTF crisis is not a huge gang of city folks taking a stroll out in the country. It is from the people in close... your neighbors. Who knows if you will have to fight off a gang of hungry folk from the city but what is guaranteed is that your hungry neighbors become a threat once they realize their survival is in jeopardy.
> 
> ...


I know, I know. I wish you were my neighbor. Hehe, I've got this image of Mr Rodgers in my head, God bless him....Anyway, I got one neighbor I like a lot. He's a young man with a wife and a little kid and he works on hot rods on the side; as a side job. He drives the other neighbors crazy making noise up and down the street, but he's fine with me, very neighborly. He always blows the leaves off our driveway just because we're his neighbor.

Then I've got the deer feeding lady across the street who came to our court hearing to protest against our wanting to do an addition. She and those others who showed up to protest are not, as you can imagine, on my hit parade. First off, it wasn't very nice to try and stop us from doing some home improvements, and secondly, feeding deer is a hazard. Somebody could come barreling down the street one day and hit Bambi. Then how will she feel? Plus Bambi got every blessed tomato from our garden last. No, she'll get no soup from me--well maybe. I don't really know.

And then of course there's the retired nurse up the hill. She's okay with me any day of the week even on Sunday.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Annie said:


> I know, I know. I wish you were my neighbor.


Same here, my friend. Everyone's situation is different. In my case, these 10 families are fairly well spread out along our lane of over a mile. There is a cluster of a few homes at the rear where I live. Never had a moment's trouble with anyone. Everyone mostly keeps to themselves but will always offer help when needed or asked. Everyone understands we live in the country so no one gets upset when a neighbor starts shooting or whatever. Part of living in the country. I used to feed deer but just so as to take pictures to see what really was around. Many of us are connected either by church or by the local school.

IMO, this is an area most preppers fail. They will store food, water & ammo and have lots of guns (like me ) They count calories & store enough food for themselves but really have no plan for security from hungry neighbors... besides being Rambo.

I think I am blessed with great neighbors and a great location.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

******* said:


> Same here, my friend. Everyone's situation is different. In my case, these 10 families are fairly well spread out along our lane of over a mile. There is a cluster of a few homes at the rear where I live. Never had a moment's trouble with anyone. Everyone mostly keeps to themselves but will always offer help when needed or asked. Everyone understands we live in the country so no one gets upset when a neighbor starts shooting or whatever. Part of living in the country. I used to feed deer but just so as to take pictures to see what really was around. Many of us are connected either by church or by the local school.
> 
> IMO, this is an area most preppers fail. They will store food, water & ammo and have lots of guns (like me ) They count calories & store enough food for themselves but really have no plan for security from hungry neighbors... besides being Rambo.
> 
> I think I am blessed with great neighbors and a great location.


My home is blessed and consecrated to Our Lord, we're under His protection. I'll just have to take whatever comes and do the best I can.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Annie said:


> Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong; I mean that. But I suspect more than half those neighbors are unworthy of you. They may cause you more trouble than good fortune. How well do you really know them?





******* said:


> IMO, the biggest threat during a SHTF crisis is not a huge gang of city folks taking a stroll out in the country. It is from the people in close... your neighbors. .


Yay, when it hits the fan we better watch our backs..

*The Twilight Zone: The Shelter*

1- A jolly neighbourhood dinner party, what could go wrong?
2- Radio announcer- "Enemy missiles on the way, take cover!"
3- "Lemme in your cellar, I'm your best mate"
4- "You come out or we come in!"
5- Radio announcer- "Sorry, false alarm"
6- Home owner- "Git you creeps!


















PS- I think the home owner is the same bloke who Poitier slapped around in 'The Heat of the Night', he's obviously still in a bad mood.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Eyeball said:


> .....


FYI.... your photo is fake. And a poor Photoshop job at that. The overall view is an aerial shot, but the image of the house was taken from ground level.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Back Pack Hack said:


> FYI.... your photo is fake. And a poor Photoshop job at that. The overall view is an aerial shot, but the image of the house was taken from ground level.


Fake or not, I know I'd rather hang in the Hall than in the city..


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Well, Looks like I need a shovel. The VC had it down pat..


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Why sure its fake....my intentions are not...nor is eyeballs.

The idea is good. Flawed when you consider people like me...unless you pay your tributes.....but still. Its what most people consider. a defendable spot with a crew of loyalists. 

Hell I gt that too...they just don't know how bad I'll screw if it comes down to me and mine.....which is what you should consider.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

I saw a show called extreme homes, something like that. Some very wealthy, but very capable couple, built a home way out in Alaska. It was built in an isolated area, needed a plane to get to it. But, it had everything they needed to survive. River, fishing, hunting of big game/little game (even is Alaska they have small game), wood for fuel/fire etc etc. Huge house with lots of storage for many items..
Its people like them that have the best chance, because most people can not get to you. (Military etc can)..


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## fadetoblack72 (Nov 16, 2020)

Ok. I’ll just climb don the shooting post


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

fadetoblack72 said:


> Ok. I'll just climb don the shooting post
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now THAT^^^^^makes sense!

:vs_worry:


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## fadetoblack72 (Nov 16, 2020)

Gotta sleep/eat/masturbate sometime


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

8 adults here... closest occupied building is 5 miles away.... after that, another 2 miles... Know all of them and their families well. They come here for trouble they are seriously outgunned... then again they all have cattle and more bins full than we do... I assume arrangements can be made... I will worry about serious invaders 8 months from now when winter ends..


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Chipper said:


> How about that big generator roaring away and light discipline?? Having the only light on during a power outage will attract the unwanted like flies, you know.
> 
> Chimney smoke can be cut down by using good dry firewood and only burn at night. How you cover up the smell??
> 
> You will never be able to hide completely from the unwanted. Once the SHTF they will march out of the cities like rats into the country side and be a complete drain and devastate the prepared country folks. Think the plan should be more based on taking care of the threat then trying to hide. The further away from the dwelling the better.


Great point. Used to do security at Salsa Dances and talked to a lot of Purto Riccans. They say after a big Hurricane the criminals head to the houses where they can hear the generator. They come to steal..kill and destroy like their Daddy the devil


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Wood smoke, noise from gardening of working around the place, the smell of cooking food. It's almost impossible to totally hide. So 1st step is becoming the "grey man"; look as if you and your place has nothing to steal, stay quiet, keep things dark and try to avoid being noticed.

But also have a good defensive plan, motion sensors, binoculars, NV, and thermal, have enough people to maintain an over-watch on the area. Try to develop a few trusted neighbors with radios to further deepen your defensive zone.

The goal is to look as if you're not worth raiding but have a nasty defensive perimeter if someone tries to raid your location.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

'Survivors' (1975)- this group are moving into a deserted country house like my 'Doomsday Hall'-










Mind you they'll need a tougher vehicle than that clapped-out old van for forays into the riot-torn cities to pick up items.
Here's our own vehicle-


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

This group have cleverly got themselves a neat little veh with a roof-mounted gun for their supply runs into town-


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Elvis said:


> Wood smoke, noise from gardening of working around the place, the smell of cooking food. It's almost impossible to totally hide. So 1st step is becoming the "grey man"; look as if you and your place has nothing to steal, stay quiet, keep things dark and try to avoid being noticed........


Making it look 'pre-ravished' helps. Plus paint on some SAR tags on all the houses in the neighborhood.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Making it look 'pre-ravished' helps. Plus paint on some SAR tags on all the houses in the neighborhood.


Not quite sure what you mean by pre-ravished. But wearing older unwashed clothing, not keeping your self cleaned up and shaved, weapons out of sight will all help make you look like a place not worth raiding. Meanwhile motion sensors 300+ yds out will help your over watch identify if anybody is in the area.

Or you can go the other way using a show of strength, go loud and proud with fancy rifles and camo patrolling the property; making noise and smoke in an attempt to scare threats away. But a guy all decked out in molly gear with a nice AR makes a tempting target for the deer hunter with an old beat up bolt action rifle hiding in the bushes 300 yds away who wants to upgrade his armament and maybe check out the pack to see if there is any food.. You may say "But the rest of us will get the deer hunter if he shoots our guy" and you may get him. But what if it's your kid patrolling who is the one shot by the deer hunter? Or your wife walking back with a bucket of water and her AR slung over a shoulder? .

It really depends on your location and number of defenders living on your property. How long are your sight lines? How many easy to find approaches to the property? For my location playing the gray man with a strong in depth defensive perimeter works best. Especially with the ability to withdraw to a backup location within a few miles.

Having a backup location you can retreat to would allow you to sneak back to the property you know so well and attempt to reclaim your property from a distance, cut the power, fuel, water, and reduce the people eating your food.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Elvis said:


> Not quite sure what you mean by pre-ravished.........


Quit mowing the lawn. Toss a bunch of junk mail by the front door. Let the weeds in the sidewalk cracks grow. Maybe board up a couple non-defensve windows up. Try not to make a beaten path to just one door, use multiple entrances. Let some empty soup cans and food containers 'pile up' in the yard.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Quit mowing the lawn. Toss a bunch of junk mail by the front door. Let the weeds in the sidewalk cracks grow. Maybe board up a couple non-defensve windows up. Try not to make a beaten path to just one door, use multiple entrances. Let some empty soup cans and food containers 'pile up' in the yard.


Severed Heads on Finely Crafted American Made Pikes, mayhaps?:tango_face_grin:


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Slippy said:


> Severed Heads on Finely Crafted American Made Pikes, mayhaps?:tango_face_grin:


Yup that'll do it; a group in Survivors 1975 (episode 'Manhunt') had the same idea and left skeletons around to do that trespasser deterrent stuff..


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Elvis said:


> The goal is to look as if you're not worth raiding but have a nasty defensive perimeter if someone tries to raid your location.


Speaking of perimeters, the group in that old army camp seem to feel secure behind their wire perimeter and use the tried and tested method of shoving a gun in the face of unwelcome visitors..-

Survivors 1975, episode 'The Chosen'


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

In reply to page 6 of replies, it's why I have tunnels here, no one to be seen for easy target.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Weldman said:


> In reply to page 6 of replies, it's why I have tunnels here, no one to be seen for easy target.


Rambo used your house for his movie, didnt he?


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

Steve40th said:


> Rambo used your house for his movie, didnt he?


Nope, those were shallow and shoddy built.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Making it look 'pre-ravished' helps. Plus paint on some SAR tags on all the houses in the neighborhood.


I understand the line of thought, it makes sense. Just pretty sure that people will be desperate enough to rework covered ground, and looted houses will get looted dozens of times by scavengers. The best chance of survival we have is not to let our country end up like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Eyeball said:


> Yup that'll do it; a group in Survivors 1975 (episode 'Manhunt') had the same idea and left skeletons around to do that trespasser deterrent stuff..


Except that their skeleton looks fake! That's a dead give-away! :vs_laugh:

make sure you use a real skeleton! Maybe - as fresh as you can - better when it looks like it's just been recently picked on! 
They might get scared by cannibals!


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

charito said:


> Except that their skeleton looks fake! That's a dead give-away! :vs_laugh:
> make sure you use a real skeleton! Maybe - as fresh as you can - better when it looks like it's just been recently picked on!
> They might get scared by cannibals!


Thanks mate, let me just make a note- _"Use real fresh skeleton"_..

PS- in the same episode the group also stake out trespassers as a warning to others, they certainly seem to have their shit wired tight..


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

SAR-1L said:


> I understand the line of thought, it makes sense. Just pretty sure that people will be desperate enough to rework covered ground, and looted houses will get looted dozens of times by scavengers. The best chance of survival we have is not to let our country end up like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan.


In addition to retracing their steps to make sure there's nothing left behind, the roving hordes will also expand into the sticks where your nice and secluded BOL is located.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> In addition to retracing their steps to make sure there's nothing left behind, the roving hordes will also expand into the sticks where your nice and secluded BOL is located.


Yeah, it is just like all the tunnels and weapon's caches, etc that they had/have over there during the war. They knew eventually they would get sniffed out. Just like when I see people with bars on their doors and windows, I am thinking... I am gonna tow hook that door off the frame with a truck and my buddies are going to walk right in.

It is always a matter of when... not if your safe house is found.


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

SAR-1L said:


> Yeah, it is just like all the tunnels and weapon's caches, etc that they had/have over there during the war. They knew eventually they would get sniffed out. Just like when I see people with bars on their doors and windows, I am thinking... I am gonna tow hook that door off the frame with a truck and my buddies are going to walk right in.
> 
> It is always a matter of when... not if your safe house is found.


You're right cause how does one hide their fresh grown crops popping up and animals they are raising to survive, you can't. Eventually as time goes on things that normally would be seen are now odd. 
It's not just when your safe house is found it's what are you going to do to protect it which eventually can be breached with time, but also the decision you make to either fight till death maybe submission or retreat to a secondary safe house to start over.


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## Nick (Nov 21, 2020)

If you don't have a secluded place to hide your best bet is probably to hide in plain sight. I own a lot of guns and ammo but I'm under no delusions that I could fend off hundreds of people who are starving to death. So why not make it seem like your one of them. Break some windows and cover them with boards. Maybe a little graffiti and some caution tape. Make it look like your house has already been looted and make sure your stockpile is not in an obvious place. Obviously hiding out in an underground bunker sounds better but not everyone has that option. If you can make them think your in the same boat as them it would be safer to move about freely also. This is not necessarily my plan but if for some reason I wasn't able to get to where I plan on going it's definitely a backup.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

Weldman said:


> You're right cause how does one hide their fresh grown crops popping up and animals they are raising to survive, you can't. Eventually, as time goes on things that normally would be seen are now odd.
> It's not just when your safe house is found it's what are you going to do to protect it which eventually can be breached with time, but also the decision you make to either fight till death maybe submission or retreat to a secondary safe house to start over.


Yeah, the problem with that is even with a group after several raids, a war of attrition starts to kick in. Even if you kill 100 raiders per 1 group member lost in the beginning, an equation that will scale against you as your group starts to thin, with a group of 20 in less than probably 10-15 raids, you lose everything. Not only are there direct fatalities, unless you have half your group trained as a surgical level trauma team, but you will also lose members to infection, injury, etc. Then there is age, weather, wild animals.

As much as a problem as we are as a species to our own selves, the odds are just not in our favor. I hope our society will at least hold itself together long enough to let me and my wife die peacefully of old age before the complete collapse and suffering happens. We could live another 60-70 years though. Sorry to sound so pessimistic, it is just when you see current examples in the Middle East and Africa of what happens to people, and those people have been at war since man took his first breath, not like the peace we have known here in the U.S.

Not like we will have a civilization within reach on foot to ask for amnesty and shelter even in a migrant camp even. The natural barriers that have kept invaders out of America at mass for 200 years, will be our prison if we lose the ability to evac air/water.


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