# EMPs



## tnladywolfe (May 31, 2014)

I know what they are and the end results are but how do I prepare for one. I have read that it could send us or any country back to the 1800s, which for me would be great. No, I am not that prepared at all but I am a country girl so hard work isn't anything new to me. Are EMPs a really huge threat? I have read that people are putting computers in special cages and such but really how is that computer going to work if there isn't anything to connect to. You may have a generator for power but no internet to speak of. Everything is fried. So much to learn and do I feel like I have no time left to get very thing I need done. Even if I had the money to do it all I don't think it would be in time for the bad things that are on the horizon. So your thoughts on EMPs


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## ordnance21xx (Jan 29, 2014)

this is an old movie but 



 watch this see what you think. The guy makes a lot of mistakes.

MOLON LABE


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Here is a link to the website "One Second After", a very good book about an EMP and the after results. The website also has some basic info on EMP's. 
onesecondafter.com - Home


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Are EMPs a huge threat?
No.
The few countries that have nuclear weapons are either allies, or incapable of delivering a warhead to our shores without retaliation(mutually assured destruction).
I put very little stock in the threat of an EMP blast.

That being said, the effect of an EMP is comparable to the effect of a massive coronal ejection.
The sun has potential to release energy magnitudes greater than an EMP blast, effectively wiping out all electronics within line of sight.
An EMP would be localized to a region. A MCE would wipe out components across most of the planet.
Now *THAT* is most definitely something I am concerned about.
Protection from a MCE is tough. As stated, the power from an MCE is far greater than an EMP.
All but the best Faraday cages would be of little use.
If you really want to do well in the event of one of these things, learn to do without electronics.
As you said, protecting some component, but having all others fried, won't prove to be very helpful.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Here are some links. 
Protecting Your Electrical Equipment from Solar Flares
https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/effects/
Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com
Budget Prep: Faraday Cage | National Geographic Channel
HowStuffWorks "How Faraday Cages Work"
NUKEMAP by Alex Wellerstein

There are a lot of people just like me, who seem to know a lot about this subject. I would prefer you read up on the subject rather than get information third hand that might have errors due to memory. What was I just talking about?


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## tnladywolfe (May 31, 2014)

Thanks Paraquack. That is exactly what I was looking for is info and those links really do help. I have watched a little of the movie and just in that short time I can see many mistakes this man has made. I do have a few medical items but this is where I lack greatly. I have been looking into this fish antibiotics but still unsure about it. More reading.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

tnladywolfe said:


> Thanks Paraquack. That is exactly what I was looking for is info and those links really do help. I have watched a little of the movie and just in that short time I can see many mistakes this man has made. I do have a few medical items but this is where I lack greatly. I have been looking into this fish antibiotics but still unsure about it. More reading.


I heard from a reputable source (ThePatriotNurse on YouTube) that fish antibiotics are 100% identical to human antibiotics.
She has them, and uses them.
A comment on her video about them stated that when they called the manufacturer listed on the bottle of fish antibiotics to see if they were the same, the person on the other end stated that they didn't make fish antibiotics. 

But don't get too giddy. Self diagnosing and prescribing is a very dangerous game.
Use extreme caution.


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## Dr. Prepper (Dec 20, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> I heard from a reputable source (ThePatriotNurse on YouTube) that fish antibiotics are 100% identical to human antibiotics.
> She has them, and uses them.
> A comment on her video about them stated that when they called the manufacturer listed on the bottle of fish antibiotics to see if they were the same, the person on the other end stated that they didn't make fish antibiotics.
> 
> ...


I purposely stay away from these topics but this statement is EXTREMELY important. Good on you Kauboy.


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## SquirrelBait (Jun 6, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I heard from a reputable source (ThePatriotNurse on YouTube) that fish antibiotics are 100% identical to human antibiotics.
> She has them, and uses them.
> A comment on her video about them stated that when they called the manufacturer listed on the bottle of fish antibiotics to see if they were the same, the person on the other end stated that they didn't make fish antibiotics.
> 
> ...


This is why I advocate for learning how to make and use colloidal silver. *Shrug*


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> Are EMPs a huge threat?
> No.
> The few countries that have nuclear weapons are either allies, or incapable of delivering a warhead to our shores without retaliation(mutually assured destruction).
> I put very little stock in the threat of an EMP blast.
> ...


KauBoy,

North Korea has nuclear weapons. They have placed a satellite in orbit. That satellite could just as easily have been a nuclear warhead. Detonated over the middle of the USA it would have wiped out every device in the country that used semi-conductors (plugged in or not). It doesn't have to come into our airspace and it doesn't need to be big. It just has to be detonated more than 50 miles above the center of the USA or higher. It is called an HEMP. I suggest you do a bit of research because it could happen.

The solar EMPs can knock out the entire electrical grid but unless your electronics are plugged in a solar EMP doesn't have an E1 pulse to knock them out. The solar EMP is made up of just two of the three pulses (E1, E2, and E3) E2 and E3. These affect long transmission lines by inducing large current flows and large transformers by inducing high current and voltages. Our electrical grid would "burn up" like a 6 volt light plugged into a 12 volt battery. Since it takes about five years to build just one of these large transformers we would be decades trying to get replacements for the ones that burn out. A solar EMP would affect the whole hemisphere which means that half the world could be affected and there are only a couple of places that make the large transformers - none in the USA.

Like the lady from Tennessee said, even if you can protect your stuff from the EMP or HEMP it won't do you much good because there will not be much that you can do with it after the event. Both types of EMPs carry the E2 and E3 pulses but only the HEMP carries the E1 pulse.

A coronal mass ejection (CME) or a solar flare both cover an area that covers all longitudes of the hemisphere affected but it depends on the strength of the event (either one) how far from the poles the effect goes. They cannot wipe out electronics unless the electronics are on at the time.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

my 2 cents...

emp is a threat but on the same kind of threat of new Zealand invading the USA.... as if

there are 2 primary types, also apparently there is a device that can deliver one (a developed weapon)

nuke bombs, if a nuke went off, sorry to say a emp is the last of your worries

solar... you have better chance of winning powerball (you guys have that?? lotto, but with a extra freash number) than it bringing down the grid

the total effects of a emp is also educated guesses, modern semi conductors have more tolerance that early systems, the only things I can be 100% sure on, power will go out
phones will be fried
some items will work, some won't, for example.. let's say you and your neighbor own the exact same battery radio, yours may work, theirs may not.... 

this is a difficult topic to get a good 100% certain response as we haven't had any real emp event in the modern age (some testing in the 60s - 90s but the testing was centred around destruction not the emp)

so how to "prep" for this, many ways, from Faraday cages to learning present industrial age way of life (to ww2) but you're aware, you have a idea where to look, just don't go too deep (or you will go insane) just understand it won't kill everything.... (there is even a high chance your modern car will start after such event) 

and remember there is so much misinformation from fear mongers on the net its hard to get a good picture of infrastructure damage and technology damage, I remember one article that put the idea of a reactor meltdown because of a emp could wipe out safety backups


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Everything I *read* says just the opposite about devices utilizing semi-conductors or ICs. The early systems were more robust because of the heavier electrical loads involved in the operation of the early devices. Electron tube devices were even better at handling an EMP. I'd really appreciate any links to your info. As far a nuclear EMP, Russia did testing of firing the early, short rang, almost ICBMs by dropping them into the ocean with a flotation collar or something that would allow it to float at the surface in a nose up, vertical position. They were successfully able to launch these missiles. While N Korea doesn't have the capability of long range missiles that could get to the US, they could implement the Russians technique, just off shore. I think there is a good chance our antimissile - missiles might not be able to react quickly enough to stop this kind of an attack.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A nuke - say 50 to 500 kiloton detonated above the atmosphere will not have a blast that anyone on the ground could feel, the radiation would not be strong enough after going through the atmosphere to hurt you but the EMP from that device would do this:
the E1 pulse will wipe out/burn up all unprotected electronics from coast to coast. 
the E2 and E3 pulses would burn out electrical transmission lines and fry power transformers big and small throughout the grid. 

At most you would see a bright (but not blinding) flash in the sky - remember that it is detonated while in orbit, outside the atmosphere. 
The size of the nuke makes no difference the EMP is nearly always the same. The cause is the gamma radiation ionizes the atmosphere - the size of the blast has negligible effect on the EMP produced. 
There won't be any fallout or radiation danger at all.You really need to educate yourselves on the differences between a solar EMP and an HEMP. 

The solar EMP will only hurt your electronics if they are on, running and the power surge makes it through the protection in your computer. E2 and E3 pulses have too slow a rise time to affect the semiconductors. 

The nuclear EMP has the E1 pulse that has a very fast rise time (nano-seconds) and very high voltages with less current. It also carries the E2 and E3 pulses and they will do the same damage as a solar EMP.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

paraquack said:


> Everything I *read* says just the opposite about devices utilizing semi-conductors or ICs. The early systems were more robust because of the heavier electrical loads involved in the operation of the early devices. Electron tube devices were even better at handling an EMP. I'd really appreciate any links to your info. As far a nuclear EMP, Russia did testing of firing the early, short rang, almost ICBMs by dropping them into the ocean with a flotation collar or something that would allow it to float at the surface in a nose up, vertical position. They were successfully able to launch these missiles. While N Korea doesn't have the capability of long range missiles that could get to the US, they could implement the Russians technique, just off shore. I think there is a good chance our antimissile - missiles might not be able to react quickly enough to stop this kind of an attack.


look into semi conductor development, you will be surprised, there are ic's out there that where you change the input voltage you change its function

I don't buy all the shit/articles that are fear driven, have you noticed any emp article that is not written as a knee jerk reaction to a fear?? yes emps do go with nukes there is plenty of evidence, there is not enough to say emp will kill everything.... that's my argument... 
and yea as already been said nukes will assure the destruction of the other power


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Here's two that I don't take as being a knee jerk reaction. If you don't have a link for me to look at, give me a search term please. 
Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com
https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/effects/
And you're probably right, it won't kill everything. But maybe 2-4 would


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

PaulS said:


> KauBoy,
> 
> North Korea has nuclear weapons. They have placed a satellite in orbit. That satellite could just as easily have been a nuclear warhead. Detonated over the middle of the USA it would have wiped out every device in the country that used semi-conductors (plugged in or not). It doesn't have to come into our airspace and it doesn't need to be big. It just has to be detonated more than 50 miles above the center of the USA or higher. It is called an HEMP. I suggest you do a bit of research because it could happen.
> 
> ...


A quick re-read of my post showed that I never said it couldn't happen.
She asked about the threat, and I said the threat is mostly non-existent.
Your hypothetical assumes that NK wants to start a nuclear war, and that they have any sufficient technology to launch a satellite with the ability to hold a warhead, let alone target and fire it.
A look through their recent history shows they have nothing close to the technological know-how to do this.
NK is not a threat.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I was a site Chief at a communications site in Germany for a number of years. The military took the threat to solid state devices by an EMP very seriously. ALL spare parts and test equipment were stored in Faraday cages. When handling any of the cards with I.C. chips the handler wore a grounding cuff to eliminate the possibility of a static discharge damaging the part. We keep enough spare parts in the Faraday cages to replace ALL of the transmission equipment with I.C. chips in the event of an EMP. 

The advantage of using a Nuclear device to create a EMP vs using it for a ground or just above ground burst is with a High Altitude EMP you get more bang for you buck. One High Altitude EMP burst from a Nuclear device could take out the electronics for a huge part of the United States vs one or two per each large city/localized area. As for retaliation, with terrorist groups or countries like Iran and North Korea either trying to get nukes or already having them, is anyone sure that they wouldn't use them? Who would have guessed that some people would be willing to fly planes into buildings. Take a transport ship, a relatively crude missile such as the scud that has the capability to reach the upper atmosphere, and a nuke, and you have the ingredients to a disaster. Take the ship 200 miles off our cost and fire a scud from it's deck. Yes, it would probably destroy the ship and everyone on it, but is it possible to find people willing to do it? And if they cover their tracks as far as who they are, what would be do? Who would we retaliate against? Say it isn't likely? I disagree. I think it is just as likely as people coming to the United States, take lessons on how to fly planes, then hijack planes and fly them into buildings.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

As far as computers being useless even they weren't damaged due to an EMP because the net would be down, I have hundreds if not thousands of books that I have downloaded from the net, most of them for free. They include military manuals, books for medical, sanitation, how to books, farming, gardening, firearms, just about everything I can think of, not to mention books purely for entertainment. An let's not forget solitaire! I of course have many books in paper form, but I have an entire library that I can't afford to print, let alone buy in hardcover. A computer is still a great tool to have even without the net.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Mutually assured destruction (MAD) is only applicable when each party are on "equal footing" or parity of life, technology, etc. There are countries out there, specifically NK where there is no parity. Most of their population lives in 19th century conditions. Just look at a night picture of NK. They have nothing to lose. The other would be a rogue element that acquires a missile (scud) and Technonlgy.

With that said, you have to look at the risk ranking and what you prepare for. EMP of all types - likelihood very low, impact very high, prep requirements difficult. For me, it's hurricanes so an example - likelihood moderate to high, impact moderate to high, prep requirement low/easy. So I prep for a hurricane and take some very moderate steps for an EMP.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I too have a ton of book, etc. downloaded. To try and print them out would be nearly impossible for me to store, let alone afford the cost. Everything I have is on flash drives and stored along with my one generation ago laptop, comm gear, etc in a faraday cage. If terrorists or even a terrorist state could launch a EMP strike against the US, how would we know for sure where to retaliate? Would the US retaliate? That seems to be the biggest part of being a terrorist, they're invisible, especially to an idiot like Obama. While I pray we never suffer another kick in the head like 9-11, I am not foolish enough to believe it won't happen again. I believe that a terrorist nation would prefer to shut down our country thru the use of a nuke creating an EMP. Regular terrorists like those in the middle east, IMHO would prefer the shock and awe of low altitude nuclear detonation/s. As far as preparing for an EMP, the cost of making a faraday cage out of a metal garbage can is fairly reasonable. Besides, if you need to, you can use it for so many other things.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Piratesailor said:


> Mutually assured destruction (MAD) is only applicable when each party are on "equal footing" or parity of life, technology, etc. There are countries out there, specifically NK where there is no parity. Most of their population lives in 19th century conditions. Just look at a night picture of NK. They have nothing to lose. The other would be a rogue element that acquires a missile (scud) and Technonlgy.
> 
> With that said, you have to look at the risk ranking and what you prepare for. EMP of all types - likelihood very low, impact very high, prep requirements difficult. For me, it's hurricanes so an example - likelihood moderate to high, impact moderate to high, prep requirement low/easy. So I prep for a hurricane and take some very moderate steps for an EMP.


While it is true, the country as a whole has nothing to lose, the person in power certainly does.
The little fat girl running that country would have the biggest target placed right on top of her if this happened.
She wouldn't risk it, there's literally nothing to gain.

Now Iran...
They don't care about gain. If they ever acquire the bomb, the entire game changes.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

It is highly unlikely that you would know who fired a nuke in orbit. If there is no known target who would you launch a counter strike against?

There is also the point that although your infrastructure has been crippled there has been no massive attack on the people. The only casualties are those in intensive care and some transportation accidents.
The government will be too busy with trying to restore some form of normalcy to want to launch a major nuclear strike and start Armageddon.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

PaulS said:


> It is highly unlikely that you would know who fired a nuke in orbit. If there is no known target who would you launch a counter strike against?
> 
> There is also the point that although your infrastructure has been crippled there has been no massive attack on the people. The only casualties are those in intensive care and some transportation accidents.
> The government will be too busy with trying to restore some form of normalcy to want to launch a major nuclear strike and start Armageddon.


Again, you preface it with the outlandish idea that the initial attack would even take place. There is no purpose for NK to do anything of the sort.
While we making assumptions, it is just as easy to assume we know exactly what ever dangerous country's satellites are doing, and would know immediately whether one was a warhead or not.


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## omegabrock (Jun 16, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> If you really want to do well in the event of one of these things, learn to do without electronics.


but, how will i be able to read the forum and learn stuff?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

omegabrock said:


> but, how will i be able to read the forum and learn stuff?


You're just identified the true evil nature of these things!!!


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Notsoyoung said:


> As far as computers being useless even they weren't damaged due to an EMP because the net would be down, I have hundreds if not thousands of books that I have downloaded from the net, most of them for free. They include military manuals, books for medical, sanitation, how to books, farming, gardening, firearms, just about everything I can think of, not to mention books purely for entertainment. An let's not forget solitaire! I of course have many books in paper form, but I have an entire library that I can't afford to print, let alone buy in hardcover. A computer is still a great tool to have even without the net.


I'm 99% sure hard drives would be stuffed, It wouldn't surprise me if some still worked but I bet it would be wiped as hard drives are still magnetically sensitive


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The magnetic media would be fine... the electronics that run the drives would be OK in a solar EMP but with a high altitude nuclear detonation they would be toast - along with the thumb drives and the rest of your computer and other electronics. I have been considering a new computer running a Linux OS with all my important documents on it to place into protection so I could access my DVD archives and E-library. I could use thumb drives to keep it updated and maybe keep some thumb drives with it in secure protection. I just don't know if it would be worth doing. I would have to have a power supply which means an inverter and batteries and a way to charge the batteries. I will consider the complexities and make up my mind.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I picked up a copy of the latest Off Grid magazine yesterday. The next to last page showed instructions for making a Faraday container for just this situation.
I'll see if I can get the scanner working and post what I can.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

PaulS said:


> The magnetic media would be fine... the electronics that run the drives would be OK in a solar EMP but with a high altitude nuclear detonation they would be toast - along with the thumb drives and the rest of your computer and other electronics. I have been considering a new computer running a Linux OS with all my important documents on it to place into protection so I could access my DVD archives and E-library. I could use thumb drives to keep it updated and maybe keep some thumb drives with it in secure protection. I just don't know if it would be worth doing. I would have to have a power supply which means an inverter and batteries and a way to charge the batteries. I will consider the complexities and make up my mind.


Are you talking about a big desk model computer or laptop or tablet. I think they have 12V power supplies for laptops, etc.

As far as North Korea or any terrorist nation launching an attack just for the hell of it. Why wouldn't they? They are crazy enough to take down the Twin Towers, even though they failed once. Smuggle a SCUD into Mexico and launch it from there with a suitable sized warhead could take out a fair share of the country. Too often I talk with people who seem to feel that these terrorists can somehow empathize with their victims. Just because WE get all sad because one of our bombs goes astray and takes out a mosque doesn't mean that do.


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## omegabrock (Jun 16, 2014)

so EMP's are like getting a circuit wet and letting it dry before connecting it to a power source...i mean, if your stuff isnt plugged in and an EMP hit, it would still be trashed?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paraquack said:


> Are you talking about a big desk model computer or laptop or tablet. I think they have 12V power supplies for laptops, etc.
> 
> As far as North Korea or any terrorist nation launching an attack just for the hell of it. Why wouldn't they? They are crazy enough to take down the Twin Towers, even though they failed once. Smuggle a SCUD into Mexico and launch it from there with a suitable sized warhead could take out a fair share of the country. Too often I talk with people who seem to feel that these terrorists can somehow empathize with their victims. Just because WE get all sad because one of our bombs goes astray and takes out a mosque doesn't mean that do.


A threat posed by an Islamic extremist nation, and any posed by the communist government of North Korea are worlds apart.
North Korea is losing support from China with every dumb move they make, and would only threaten nuclear action in order to demand more assistance and aid. To actually carry out their threats would assure they NEVER receive any aid ever again.
As for the Islamic nations, they hold an ideology of slaughter for religious reasons. They would most certainly have no issue with mutually assured destruction. They would gladly accept the retaliation, thinking only of their reward, after launching an attack.
However, they wouldn't care about an EMP blast. It doesn't kill enough. They would want full blown nuclear blast and fallout for maximum lives lost.
A threat? Yes. A specific EMP threat? Not nearly as likely.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I generally agree with your ideas of a muslim terrorist threat preferring the shock and awe of nukes going off in our major cities. If NK were to launch an EMP strike in a way that no one knows where it came from, how do they stand to pay any penalty. I also think Kimmy is just nuts enough to try it.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I also think Kimmy is just nuts enough to try it.


After hearing what he did to his own uncle and girlfriend... you just might be right.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A computer - or any electronics - plugged it or not would be toasted by a nuke detonated at high altitude - like in orbit. A solar EMP would not hurt the electronics at all - unless a surge from the power line it was plugged into got to it. (not likely)
Solar EMP's have two components which are called E2 and E3 pulses. These effect long lines - like power transmission lines that carry electricity across the nation - and large power transformers like those in sub-stations and on power poles. The E2 and E3 pulses cannot damage electronics directly but your electronics are susceptible to the power surges caused by the transmission lines and transformers.

The high altitude nuclear EMP's have a third component in addition to the E2 and E3 pulses and that is the E1 pulse. It is caused by the interaction between gamma rays from the nuclear bomb and the atmosphere. It has a very high voltage and a very fast rise time (practically instantaneous). The E1 pulse will induce a high voltage inside the semiconductors and burn them out. Even ICs sitting on the shelf will be destroyed. The best way to completely protect them is to have then in an insulated package with three layers of heavy duty aluminum foil - each insulated from the others - covering them. Just like microwaves the E1 pulse can't get to your electronics protected in this way.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I'd be willing to bet a lot of us have an older laptop laying around. Put it in your Faraday cage, along with discs/thumb drives of all your good down loads on info. Here is a link to one website selling auto power adapters for laptops. 
High Reliability Auto to Laptop DC/DC Converter for all computer models.
I idea of wasting power by using an inverter to change 12VDC to 120VAC then plug in your laptop power supply to change 120VAC to 18VDC for your laptop seems so wasteful. Most inverters are wasting 10% of the power to start with and it goes up from there. If the inverter is warm, it's wasting power. A lot even consume a fair amount of power at idle.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

paraquack said:


> I'd be willing to bet a lot of us have an older laptop laying around. Put it in your Faraday cage, along with discs/thumb drives of all your good down loads on info. Here is a link to one website selling auto power adapters for laptops.
> High Reliability Auto to Laptop DC/DC Converter for all computer models.
> I idea of wasting power by using an inverter to change 12VDC to 120VAC then plug in your laptop power supply to change 120VAC to 18VDC for your laptop seems so wasteful. Most inverters are wasting 10% of the power to start with and it goes up from there. If the inverter is warm, it's wasting power. A lot even consume a fair amount of power at idle.


I am not sure that the operating system can be changed on a laptop - at least some of them have the OS loaded as firmware. I would be open to trying to load Linux on a laptop that someone wanted to donate. You can contact me by PM or Email.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> That would be great of you kind sir!!


Sorry it took so long.
The scanner was a no-go.
Thank goodness we live in the age of hi-res phone cameras, eh?




























Enjoy!


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> A threat posed by an Islamic extremist nation, and any posed by the communist government of North Korea are worlds apart.
> North Korea is losing support from China with every dumb move they make, and would only threaten nuclear action in order to demand more assistance and aid. To actually carry out their threats would assure they NEVER receive any aid ever again.
> As for the Islamic nations, they hold an ideology of slaughter for religious reasons. They would most certainly have no issue with mutually assured destruction. They would gladly accept the retaliation, thinking only of their reward, after launching an attack.
> However, they wouldn't care about an EMP blast. It doesn't kill enough. They would want full blown nuclear blast and fallout for maximum lives lost.
> A threat? Yes. A specific EMP threat? Not nearly as likely.


I have serious doubts as to Islamic nations would not care about an EMP over the U.S. because it wouldn't immediately result in massive deaths. If someone told them that there has been estimates of 90% of the population being dead within a year then I think that they would be all for it.


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## Innkeeper (Jun 18, 2014)

PaulS said:


> A computer - or any electronics - plugged it or not would be toasted by a nuke detonated at high altitude - like in orbit. A solar EMP would not hurt the electronics at all - unless a surge from the power line it was plugged into got to it. (not likely)
> Solar EMP's have two components which are called E2 and E3 pulses. These effect long lines - like power transmission lines that carry electricity across the nation - and large power transformers like those in sub-stations and on power poles. The E2 and E3 pulses cannot damage electronics directly but your electronics are susceptible to the power surges caused by the transmission lines and transformers.
> 
> The high altitude nuclear EMP's have a third component in addition to the E2 and E3 pulses and that is the E1 pulse. It is caused by the interaction between gamma rays from the nuclear bomb and the atmosphere. It has a very high voltage and a very fast rise time (practically instantaneous). The E1 pulse will induce a high voltage inside the semiconductors and burn them out. Even ICs sitting on the shelf will be destroyed. The best way to completely protect them is to have then in an insulated package with three layers of heavy duty aluminum foil - each insulated from the others - covering them. Just like microwaves the E1 pulse can't get to your electronics protected in this way.


Don't be too sure about the Solar EMP there was the Carrington event in 1859 "Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases giving telegraph operators electric shocks. Telegraph pylons threw sparks. Some telegraph systems continued to send and receive messages despite having been disconnected from their power supplies". The Telegraph was the Highest tech at the time and took a devastating hit, so far we have been lucky not to be hit by any coronal ejections, but just like anything else sooner or later we will get hit again and it could play merry hob with our electronics, the higher tech things seem to get the easier they seem to be damaged.


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## TJC44 (Mar 16, 2014)

While it falls under the subject of EMP, I want to also look at the upgrades to the electric grid, called Smart Grid. Either EMP or HEMP would kill the grid as we know it. Has anyone heard about any hardening being done with the Smart Grid upgrades?


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

A localized/regional EMP attack could be carried out with a handheld device. Our borders are so fluid that anyone could carry one in. Watch the NOVA program called "Secrets of the Sun" and you will see that the scientists are not saying "if" but "when" a massive coronal ejection hits. I monitor the Solarham.com site and it is absolutely amazing how many massive CMEs have erupted on the back side of the sun. If any of these were to erupt when they are in earth facing, geoeffective position, the grid could go down for years. It's just a matter of time.

The EMP threat is real enough that the governor of our state recently signed into law the requirement for the population to be educated on preparedness measures, purely in the case of an EMP event, whether as a high altitude weapon, a handheld device, or a CME from the sun. These three scenarios are specified in the law. Basically, the population needs to know that if such an event occurs, the government is not going to be there to save the day. We live in a border state and I think our governor realizes the threat is real. Every time she tries to enforce the existing immigration laws, Washington slaps her down. But that is another story. Basically, there are several ways the grid can go down and chaos will result. Don't rule out cyber attacks, either. There is a huge effort by our enemies to take down our grid without an EMP attack - just by hacking. In my mind, the failure of the power grid is the greatest threat and the greatest need for prepping.

PS. I absolutely agree that self administration of antibiotics is dangerous. Unless you take the correct med in the correct dose for the correct amount of time for the correct diagnosis, you are are going to do more harm than good. Patriotnurse has a lot of good ideas, but she doesn't even advocate for vaccinations, so I take a lot of it with a grain of salt. When the SHTF, we are going to see outbreaks of diseases like crazy. I have lived and worked in 3rd world countries, and have seen first hand the devasation of "common" childhood diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus. You better have everyone in your family vaccinated. And add Hepatitis A and typhoid to the list. Once water sources are compromised, these are going to be big issues, and they will knock you flat. The Hep A is a 2 shot series and is lifetime. Oral typhoid vaccine lasts for 5 years. The travel immunization of your public health department can give both or write a script for the oral typhoid that you can get through Costco or Walmart. And for goodness sake, keep your tetanus booster up to date!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Reviving this topic to link to a recent study analysis of a CME that happened in 2012.
According to NASA scientists and analysts, we missed a major "double whammy" event by just one week.
When the two ejections happened, we missed the face first hit by a single week.
The article gives a quote from the analysis about what could have happened if we had taken it straight on.
Here's an exerpt:


> Analysts believe that a direct hit &#8230; could cause widespread power blackouts, disabling everything that plugs into a wall socket. Most people wouldn't even be able to flush their toilet because urban water supplies largely rely on electric pumps.
> . . .
> According to a study by the National Academy of Sciences, the total economic impact could exceed $2 trillion or 20 times greater than the costs of a Hurricane Katrina. Multi-ton transformers damaged by such a storm might take years to repair.


*"disabling everything that plugs into a wall socket"*



> Solar physicists compare the 2012 storm to the so-called Carrington solar storm of September 1859, named after English astronomer Richard Carrington who documented the event.
> "In my view the July 2012 storm was in all respects at least as strong as the 1859 Carrington event," Baker tells NASA. "The only difference is, it missed."





> "If it had hit, we would still be picking up the pieces," physicist Daniel Baker of the University of Colorado tells NASA.


It seems we were very lucky.

The article can be found here: How a solar storm two years ago nearly caused a catastrophe on Earth


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