# Generators



## Targetshooter

My wife and I are looking into getting a small generator something to run two frigs, a hospital bed , c-pac machine , and a few small appliances , what wattage should I get ? We don't have a lot to spend so I would be looking for something that wouldn't cost that much. Any thoughts would be very helpful .


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## Slippy

TS,

Good luck, the world of electric generators is pretty diverse and can seem complicated once you start researching the vast number of generators available.

Gasoline, LP, Diesel and PTO (Power Take Off as in tractor driven) generators are 4 common fuel types with subcategories of Portable, Whole House, RV, etc. There are pros and cons to each fuel types. I don't know about your experience, but gas combustion engines and ethanol fuel are not good partners. Especially engines that are not run regularly and generators tend to sit idle for months years getting all gummed up with substandard fuel residue, so you have to test them regularly. Which is an argument to go LP gas.

Your Budget will most likely determine how much power generating machine you can buy but there are also varying degrees of machine quality per watt. Think Economy Grade, Consumer Grade, Proffessional/Contractor Grade etc.

Start with the link below and see what makes sense. I wish I was more help, I think i just gave you more info than you were asking for?
Electric Generators Direct | Specializing in Power Generators


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## Maine-Marine

here is the thing(s)

a frig use more when it is running but it does not run all the time, I am sure it is the same with a hospital bed... unless yo are adjusting it -it is not using electric


I would say you could get away with a 3000/3500


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## Targetshooter

Maine-Marine said:


> here is the thing(s)
> 
> a frig use more when it is running but it does not run all the time, I am sure it is the same with a hospital bed... unless yo are adjusting it -it is not using electric
> 
> I would say you could get away with a 3000/3500


 Thank you so very much , that's just what I wanted to know .


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## Targetshooter

Slippy said:


> TS,
> 
> Good luck, the world of electric generators is pretty diverse and can seem complicated once you start researching the vast number of generators available.
> 
> Gasoline, LP, Diesel and PTO (Power Take Off as in tractor driven) generators are 4 common fuel types with subcategories of Portable, Whole House, RV, etc. There are pros and cons to each fuel types. I don't know about your experience, but gas combustion engines and ethanol fuel are not good partners. Especially engines that are not run regularly and generators tend to sit idle for months years getting all gummed up with substandard fuel residue, so you have to test them regularly. Which is an argument to go LP gas.
> 
> Your Budget will most likely determine how much power generating machine you can buy but there are also varying degrees of machine quality per watt. Think Economy Grade, Consumer Grade, Proffessional/Contractor Grade etc.
> 
> Start with the link below and see what makes sense. I wish I was more help, I think i just gave you more info than you were asking for?
> Electric Generators Direct | Specializing in Power Generators


 Thank you so very much this will help me find the right one , just got the wattage from Maine - Marine , I think I am on the right track .


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## whoppo

We've had good luck with Champion generators.. relatively inexpensive, Chinese made using an engine design stolen from Honda. (they actually made a couple of improvements which Honda has subsequently incorporated into their later models). Our 3500/4000 watt models will run 8-9 hours on a tank of gas. We run all of ours for at least an hour every month with a load. Gas is treated with stabilizer, but every third month we run the tanks dry then refill with fresh, treated fuel. Oil changed every year. Our oldest one is 7 years old and it still starts on the first pull, every time.


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## MI.oldguy

Second on the champion.we bought a 3500/4600 surge from tractor supply for $299.00 couldn't pass it up.I went back to get one after reading the reviews about dependability and customer service.they have people here in the U.S.for customer service I have read.we have not had to run it for emergencies yet but I have used it to run my small welder.look up your total wattage and especially your amperage on what you may intend to run.for instance,a circular saw draws 1400 watts so,that would equal 14 amp. this gennie we have and most gennies will max out at 15 amps.some go up to 20 amps but most are 15 max,Ours will max at 15 x 2.on the 240 volt side with a 240 volt splitter cord.15 on the 120 volt side and you have to pick one or the other on the switch and cant use both sides at the same time.
so,you have to be aware of your total load.you may not be able to run everything at the same time.I have attached a generator load thumbnail for your convenience to study.


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## SOCOM42

Aside from price, Slippy is right, get a dual fuel, propane and gas, us gas only as a last resort, don't even put in any.

The oil stays cleaner longer. The smaller ones are set up to run off of 20# propane tanks.

Runs longer per gallon on the propane, no carbon mono like gas either.

Mine is a Duromax electric start, ran it yesterday for its monthly test.

I have three other generators, two gas and a large three phase diesel.

Each electric start has the battery on a trickle charger hard wired in to keep them up.


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## Targetshooter

MI.oldguy said:


> Second on the champion.we bought a 3500/4600 surge from tractor supply for $299.00 couldn't pass it up.I went back to get one after reading the reviews about dependability and customer service.they have people here in the U.S.for customer service I have read.we have not had to run it for emergencies yet but I have used it to run my small welder.look up your total wattage and especially your amperage on what you may intend to run.for instance,a circular saw draws 1400 watts so,that would equal 14 amp. this gennie we have and most gennies will max out at 15 amps.some go up to 20 amps but most are 15 max,Ours will max at 15 x 2.on the 240 volt side with a 240 volt splitter cord.15 on the 120 volt side and you have to pick one or the other on the switch and cant use both sides at the same time.
> so,you have to be aware of your total load.you may not be able to run everything at the same time.I have attached a generator load thumbnail for your convenience to study.


Thank you , that will help me out a lot .


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## Targetshooter

MI.oldguy said:


> Second on the champion.we bought a 3500/4600 surge from tractor supply for $299.00 couldn't pass it up.I went back to get one after reading the reviews about dependability and customer service.they have people here in the U.S.for customer service I have read.we have not had to run it for emergencies yet but I have used it to run my small welder.look up your total wattage and especially your amperage on what you may intend to run.for instance,a circular saw draws 1400 watts so,that would equal 14 amp. this gennie we have and most gennies will max out at 15 amps.some go up to 20 amps but most are 15 max,Ours will max at 15 x 2.on the 240 volt side with a 240 volt splitter cord.15 on the 120 volt side and you have to pick one or the other on the switch and cant use both sides at the same time.
> so,you have to be aware of your total load.you may not be able to run everything at the same time.I have attached a generator load thumbnail for your convenience to study.


Thank you , the chart will help me very much .


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## hawgrider

I didn't see anyone mention yet that... Any electric motors and compressors will require 2.5 times the run amps at start up. So keep that in mind when adding up the amperage of the devices that you want to run. So remember that when looking at the run amps of electric devices. 

As far as how big? Buy bigger than you think you need ... go big or go home as it will bite you in the ass down the road as you wish you bought a bigger generator to run the basics in your home. Such as the well pumps refrigerators freezers furnace AC washers/dryers ect.


My current generator is a 5500 watt 6250 surge and it not big enough to run all I need at one time with out unpluging frig and freezer to run well pump and such. Its a pain to have to alternate devices. Don't say I didn't warn you... go BIG get a nice 8500 watt it will run most anything you throw at it. And will run about 8/9 hours with extended run fuel tank depending on load.


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## paraquack

Maine-Marine said:


> here is the thing(s)
> 
> a frig use more when it is running but it does not run all the time, I am sure it is the same with a hospital bed... unless yo are adjusting it -it is not using electric
> 
> I would say you could get away with a 3000/3500


I agree that 3000/3500 watts should do fine.
Plugging in one fridge at a time helps to keep the power requirements down to a minimum. My fridge only says it needs 675 watts, but it probably takes double that to start up. Small appliances may be small, but can draw lots of power. You need to check and write down all the wattage requirements for everything you want to operate. Decide which ones must run together at the same time and then buy a genset to match. Fridges, freezers, air compressors, A/C units can take 2-3 times the listed wattage for a few seconds at start up. You need a genset that will handle that start up load. Most genset are rated that way. Example 3000 watts continuous and 3600 watts surge genset. So if you're running a microwave and other appliances totalling another 2000 watts and a TV at 100 watts plus some lighting, the genset might be able to keep a fridge running (with fridge at 700 watts it totals 2900 to 3000 watts) if the fridge was started first, but if the other appliances are running first (total 2200 to 2300 watts) there might not be enough surge capacity to start the fridge. But all you have to do is watch what his connected when you want to plug in the fridge. Remember, a fridge can go for hours without running if you don't let penguins stand in the open door.
View attachment 14406


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## SOCOM42

hawgrider said:


> I didn't see anyone mention yet that... Any electric motors and compressors will require 2.5 times the run amps at start up. So keep that in mind when adding up the amperage of the devices that you want to run. So remember that when looking at the run amps of electric devices.
> 
> As far as how big? Buy bigger than you think you need ... go big or go home as it will bite you in the ass down the road as you wish you bought a bigger generator to run the basics in your home. Such as the well pumps refrigerators freezers furnace AC washers/dryers ect.
> 
> My current generator is a 5500 watt 6250 surge and it not big enough to run all I need at one time with out unpluging frig and freezer to run well pump and such. Its a pain to have to alternate devices. Don't say I didn't warn you... go BIG get a nice 8500 watt it will run most anything you throw at it. And will run about 8/9 hours with extended run fuel tank depending on load.


You are right, inrush load factor needs to be taken into account.

FYI, in my case, the big compressor is 10 hp three phase, once on it does not shut off, uses a downloader, the big diesel runs this one.

Have a 7'1/2 HP gasoline driven air compressor I used to haul around.

Propane is 6,500 I think, only needs to run two oil burners, fridg and freezer, DVD and TV.

If motivated the short wave stuff., that has its own 24 volt gen with rotary phase converters for ac run rigs.


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## shootbrownelk

I just spotted a Champion 3500/4650 propane generator at Tractor supply for $299.95.


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## csi-tech

Don't forget about noise. If you live in the sticks, a frame type generator will be great but not so good for charging phones, running I pads etc. The wife and I bought an Inverter generator from Champion. Very quiet, sine wave energy and the 3000 watt model we bought is very quiet, and runs everything in our camper. We can run the fridge, the air conditioner, microwave etc. Just not all at once mind you. For quiet, sinewave energy and plenty of power for what you are describing the Champion 3100 watt inverter generator will do the trick. I think ours was in the 800.00 range. You can save alot if loud is not a problem.


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## SOCOM42

I should have stated the diesel will power everything, it is 50kw with 2k gallons of fuel to run the shop if needed.

It is a Detroit diesel ex military job got at auction.

The diesel and the large gas gen are in their own building 50 feet from the home. no noise problem.

If the power goes out here, TV, internet and land line goes out.

Cell phones will go in 24 hours, tower is a mile away, no others in range. 

To me it does not matter if they work or not.

If I absolutely have to talk to someone, HF or 2 meters will do.

Very seldom do the gensets get used, and then just for fridg, freezer and the burners during the winter, I avoid working during an outage.

Use oil lamps for lighting and the Coleman's when needed for extra light, LP gas for heat and cooking, no electric needed.

Power goes out, gives me time to relax, enjoy the quiet.


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## Maine-Marine

whoppo said:


> We've had good luck with Champion generators..


Me too ...............


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## Mad Trapper

Targetshooter said:


> My wife and I are looking into getting a small generator something to run two frigs, a hospital bed , c-pac machine , and a few small appliances , what wattage should I get ? We don't have a lot to spend so I would be looking for something that wouldn't cost that much. Any thoughts would be very helpful .


One of these or their 5000W bigger brother:

https://greenmountaingenerators.com...esel-generator-yanmar-l70-engine-old-mep016a/


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## MaterielGeneral

Maine-Marine said:


> Me too ...............


Me three... 

I have this generator Cabela's Outdoorsman 3800W/4750-Watt Remote Start Generator : Cabela's I like it, whatever generator you get, get an electric start. Its nice for the winter time when things are hard to start. Here's Champions website. Generators - Champion Power Equipment

edit: Some of the Champion generators have an RV plug on them so you can plug your camping trailer into the genny while your camping.


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## Mad Trapper

Um what if battery is dead? Got a rope?


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## MaterielGeneral

Yeah, they have a pull cord on them also.


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## SOCOM42

My diesel uses a 24 volt battery to start, not pulling it over by hand.

Dirtoit 4-71.

All the smaller electric's have pull cords as a backup.


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## Mad Trapper

SOCOM42 said:


> My diesel uses a 24 volt battery to start, not pulling it over by hand.
> 
> Dirtoit 4-71.
> 
> All the smaller electric's have pull cords as a backup.


So if the 24V you have backup good.

Army used to have Ford (9N/ Model A) 4 cyl running gennies. They had a hand crank, I've one for my 9N.


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## csi-tech

Mad Trapper said:


> Um what if battery is dead? Got a rope?


mine has push button, pull and remote start,


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## SOCOM42

MT, the diesel is 24VDC start, I use two 12 volt automotive batteries in series, they have trickle chargers.
When I got it, the hour meter had only 270 hours on it and it had not been replaced according to the records. 
I have only put 120 on it in 20 years.
There is no hand crank on it.


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## PrepperFF712

We have a Generac GP7500E 7500/9350 generator and a Generlink plug on our hydro meter. Basically the whole house is wired for backup power. 

We are on a well, so I checked every single piece of equipment in our house and tally'd up the total wattage. The only thing I have to shut off is my hot water tank. That being said, when load is low I can flip the breaker on and ensure I have hot water in the morning. 

Any sensitive electronics are protected through UPS battery backups. 

Every light is LED, we have a Propane Furnace, Propane Fireplace and Woodstove... 600L of Propane at all times and satellite for TV. Basically if SHTF, I can watch it all unfold on live TV and still have all the comforts of home. 

Until gas runs out....


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## GTGallop

Electrically speaking - generators are the most efficient when they are putting out 80% to 90% of their capacity. If you are using less or more you are either wasting gas or burning through it. Inverter Generators run more efficiently and produce a cleaner power that helps your appliances run longer. I've seen a cheapo-chi-com generator (Black Max if I recall?) burn up a fridge and a dishwasher in one single weekend.

Honda has been the leader in inverter generators for a while but others are catching on.
Honda EU3000iS Model Info | Super Quiet 3000 Watt Inverter Generator | Honda Generators
Honda EU7000i Model Info | Super Quiet 7000 Watt Inverter Generator | Honda Generators

They are quieter, run with less gas, and make electricity safe to use with computers - that CPAP by the way is a computer with sensitive sensors in it.


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## Targetshooter

WOW so much input my brain can't take it all in ,,,,,,,,, need lots more coffee ,,,,,,, thank you everyone for your help .


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## quinnbrian

I'm running a Lister SR2 with a 10 KW gen head....works great, but not for everyone. Has electric started and a hand crank...just in case. Uses .3 gallons of diesel an hour @ 80% load, and is rated at 100% duty cycle.You can run these gensets for 24/7 with out a problem.
Cheers
Brian


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## alterego

I seen this thread a few days ago and have been thinking about it and you. I noted that you mentioned the c pap machine. And also thinking about a cheaper generator. I see it has been mentioned here. Cheap generic generators produce unclean power that will ruin appliances. If you have a family member depending on an electronic device please get a quality generator. I know this is an interpretable statement Honda Yamaha Polaris all make quality generators. I just bought a Honda 6500 it will run the entire house it was 2400 bucks but I used a pos generator several years back and within a couple weeks lost a stove microwave vcr and tv. More than the cost difference of a cheap generator and add cost for a good one. I went out and bought a Honda em5000s and used it with out issue for 17 years and sold it two weeks ago to a man who blew up his less than one year old 800 dollar generator on Christmas day while their power was out. 

Do you really want to run an 800 dollar generator on your house for a 6 hour power outage and replace 2000 worth of electronic equipment in the next month?


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## alterego

Ps cheap generators are typically load as hell.
They definitely eat more fuel as they have no throttle control.
They have terrible resale value.


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## shooter

I will say go with the inverted generators... They are quieter, you can safely run electronics off them. We use the Honda 2k 3k and 7k at work and those things are tanks. I don't think they ever get serviced and I have yet to see one fail in 7 years of working with them. The Yamaha ones are a very close 2nd. 

One think to keep in mind with all generators is that the rating they show on the generator is for "burst amperage" And can only take that load for a short period of time. They want to run at about 75 to 80% of maximum load. Some companies have it listed on the generator and in the manual others its in the manual. So take this into account a 2k might be able to run 2000w for 30 minutes but anything longer then that and you risk damaging the engine. But its you run 1200w it will run all day and all night with no issues. So remember to take that into account when selecting your generator.


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## Targetshooter

Thank you everyone , I have gotten a lot of good info , now I need to save the $$$$$$ to get it , I looking at the Hondas , they are more then I can afford now but I can save up .
Thanks everyone .


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## SDF880

We have 2 Coleman 5500 watts continuous power gens and a transfer switch set-up in the box to connect to house. I haven't run both during an outage
but 2 things about having 2 is I have a back-up and I never have to fuel a hot generator. I simply run one then when fuel is low start and transfer the power over to the other.
I have since added a simple battery and inverter system that works well and I have to be convinced it will be a lengthy outage before I fire up the gens.


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## 7515

Targetshooter

I don't have a generator but I have been saving for one too.
A couple of guys here have echoed the things I keep hearing as I research getting one.

1) Calculate total wattage needed, don't just buy one that people say should be enough power. You have to know the load of all appliances to know what size you need.
2) Fridge/freezer compressors use a ton of juice at start up so calculate start up watts into your total watts
3) After figuring total watts buy one that puts out 10-20% more than your total peak demand

Good luck - tell us what you go with


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## dwight55

I bought a TSC generator a couple years back, . . . we had a 2 day outage here, . . . so I got a backup in case that happened again.

So far it has not re-done itself.

I bought the cheap TSC simply for today's living, . . . I do not want to lose a fridge or freezer worth of food because the power is out, . . . if this tinkertoy generator keeps that from happening once, . . . it has paid for itself. It's the 3K watt model.

Yes, . . . I'll run the fridge, . . . unplug, . . . then the freezer, . . . then if it's cold, . . . I can use it on my furnace, . . . not big enough for AC.

But if the SHTF, . . . there won't be enough gas to keep it running anyway, . . . so I'll drop back to survival mode.

Mine is just for bare essentials for today, . . . or at least that is the plan.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## NotTooProudToHide

I'm looking at getting one too, there have been times where one would have been handy.


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## alterego

I remembered we took this pic when we were getting our generator a couple weeks back. Might help for cost consideration.


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## I'd_last_a_day

shooter said:


> I will say go with the inverted generators... They are quieter, you can safely run electronics off them. We use the Honda 2k 3k and 7k at work and those things are tanks. I don't think they ever get serviced and I have yet to see one fail in 7 years of working with them. The Yamaha ones are a very close 2nd.


Wow you use all 3 at work!? What do u do and what are they used for? I bought an EU7000 and i used very rarely, I chose the 7000 over the 3000 because i was in love with the fuel injection on the 7000 model!!!

I've been considering switching to propane or diesel. Luckily I know a guy who will buy my EU7000 if I do...in another thread I posted that the propane gen I would go with is the Honda EU3000 propane converted model (no worries about gunked up carb)...BUT, if I go with 'The Beast' diesel...i'm gonna shell out some bucks and go with this baby...

Shop for Perkins Diesel Generators - USA & Canada


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## modfan

Be careful with the standby generators. They are only designed to run for 100hrs per year. They have lighter duty radiators, Gen ends, and engine itself. If your going to get one spend a little extra and get a prime power unit.



I'd_last_a_day said:


> Wow you use all 3 at work!? What do u do and what are they used for? I bought an EU7000 and i used very rarely, I chose the 7000 over the 3000 because i was in love with the fuel injection on the 7000 model!!!
> 
> I've been considering switching to propane or diesel. Luckily I know a guy who will buy my EU7000 if I do...in another thread I posted that the propane gen I would go with is the Honda EU3000 propane converted model (no worries about gunked up carb)...BUT, if I go with 'The Beast' diesel...i'm gonna shell out some bucks and go with this baby...
> 
> Shop for Perkins Diesel Generators - USA & Canada


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## Commodore Redtail

i think this should get some gears turning.....


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## modfan

LOL Perpetual Motion Machine, quite the scam there.



Commodore Redtail said:


> i think this should get some gears turning.....


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## Commodore Redtail

um... I've actually built 2 of them for people in colorado..... but ok. i used this video as inspiration and did it a bit differently. the only thing drawing on the generator (other than the motor) is a 12v dc charger going to a bank of 15 deep cycle boat batteries, and its started with a bicycle intead of a wall socket


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## modfan

Um... I stand by my statement. You can't create energy out of nothing. Energy output = Energy input-parasitic loss*Eff.

*1erg input*
1 erg-.2 parasitic loss =.8erg
.8erg*.6eff = *.48erg output*
I'm being pretty generous with loss and efficiency


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## Commodore Redtail

ok, lets check it out this way. according to all scientists, energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change forms. the water you drink today was once swallowed by a dinosaur. the air you breathe has already been inhaled, exhaled and processed by other life forms. using this basic scientific knowledge, the only form of energy IS perpetual energy


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## jro1

Goal Zero Yeti 1250 Solar Generator Kit | Complete Solar Kits | Goal Zero


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## modfan

modfan said:


> LOL Perpetual *Motion* Machine, quite the scam there.


Please note I said Perpetual *Motion* Machine not Perpetual Energy Machine.

You still have not provided any evidence that you are able to work around the parasitic loss problem or the efficiency problem. I would think you could minimize these issues with superconducting wire and windings. You could eliminate the parasitic loss problem with magnetic bearings and a common shaft. Of course some of this still needs to be invented.


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## Commodore Redtail

modfan said:


> Please note I said Perpetual *Motion* Machine not Perpetual Energy Machine.
> 
> You still have not provided any evidence that you are able to work around the parasitic loss problem or the efficiency problem. I would think you could minimize these issues with superconducting wire and windings. You could eliminate the parasitic loss problem with magnetic bearings and a common shaft. Of course some of this still needs to be invented.


take a peek at the video. this one isnt mine, but it give a pretty good example


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## Targetshooter

Here is what I have to say " it does not pertain to the subject " " Generators is the subject " do I need to give you two the meaning of " generator " . That video is not about generators . get on the subject guys . " commodore redtail , modfan ".


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## 8301

modfan is correct,,, now back to the original topic.


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## modfan

I build Industrial Generators for Oil Field use. This is what I would recommend. A small water cooled unit in the 3000 to 5000 watt range, a Kubota or something similar. Stay away from the aircooled units if there is a chance your going to need it for more then a week at a time. Ensure its rated *Prime Power. *Go with natural gas or propane. If SHTF you can convert this over to Gasoline, Alcohol, wood gas, or other things.


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## oldditchdoctor

You can get a 12 volt cord for most CPAP devices. TV's can be purchased in 12 volt, as can LED lighting. Ultimately reducing the 110/240 load, but requiring a 12 volt system of some kind(as a backup or for long term). The GenSet we have in our camper is an Onan 5500(gasoline). While I only use ethanol free fuel, I would definitely consider dual fuel. 
One of the guys at my FD installs and sells the Generac brand and another brand. They at LPG or CNG, but can only be configured for one at a time, changeover is a giant PITA! I am considering a 1k underground tank and an LP, or a dual fuel. Still undecided, as of yet. If we sell the camper, we will be without a backup power system. Not a fan, as I have a CPAP AS WELL. 
Our Cummins/Onan works well and I've considered putting one at the house, vs another style. 
I will monitor this thread to get more ideas!


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## Commodore Redtail

how does the video not pertain to generators?


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