# FYI: "OTC" Antibiotics



## yzingerr (Dec 9, 2012)

There is always debate about whether Fish/Bird/Animal antibiotics are safe for human use. I Keep them in my bob and would use them.

From Thomas Labs (makers of Fishmox, Fishflox, bird sulfa).
_*
" Our antibiotics are USP grade and Pharmaceutical pure. They are labeled for fish use only and we can not recommend off label use of the product."*_


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## BBKK (Oct 5, 2017)

Thank you!


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

yzingerr said:


> There is always debate about whether Fish/Bird/Animal antibiotics are safe for human use. I Keep them in my bob and would use them.
> 
> From Thomas Labs (makers of Fishmox, Fishflox, bird sulfa).
> _*
> " Our antibiotics are USP grade and Pharmaceutical pure. They are labeled for fish use only and we can not recommend off label use of the product."*_


They have to say that to cover themselves from being sued. All the research I've done they are exactly the same as the stuff you get at the pharmacy. With that said, I am not a pharmacist and/or doctor even though I play one on television.

The two most important things are paying attention to mg/knowing how much to use and knowing what works on what. ie Fishmox = amoxicillin https://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/amoxicillin


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> They have to say that to cover themselves from being sued. All the research I've done they are exactly the same as the stuff you get at the pharmacy. With that said, I am not a pharmacist and/or doctor even though I play one on television.
> 
> The two most important things are paying attention to mg/knowing how much to use and knowing what works on what. ie Fishmox = amoxicillin https://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/amoxicillin


Just yesterday I ordered some more fish antibiotics, this time Fishmox Forte & Fish Doxy. I keep a pretty good supply of a lot of the fish meds on hand for a SHTF crisis & never planned on using them to treat myself now. That changed this week when my doctor pissed me off. Two weeks ago I went to him for my annual physical & the waiting room had several folks coughing & sneezing. Sure enough I caught a cold there & it hasn't gone away and now seems to have gone to a sinus infection... something not unusual for me. So I called the office asking for them to call in something as I did not want to go back into the office. They refused without me coming back in. Well F them. I'll take my own damn amoxicillin.

My research tells me to stick with meds made in the US. I only use Thomas Labs. Lots of experts have stated they are exactly the same as the meds sold to humans, just labeled differently. They make all of the meds on the same production lines & don't change formulations or procedures based upon where sold. The most important reason I trust the meds has to do with federal regulations regarding interaction/overdose issues. The pet meds & the human meds look identical and have the exact same numbers on the pills themselves. The government requires a different identification on a pill if the meds change.

This is a good video:


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Doc Bones has no problem with the quality - only the DIY prescribing aspect of using animal grade OTC antibiotics ....


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Illini Warrior said:


> Doc Bones has no problem with the quality - only the DIY prescribing aspect of using animal grade OTC antibiotics ....


What do you mean by animal grade?

DIY medicating is not to be taken lightly but during a crisis will be better than the alternative... especially if you have some research books such as The Survival Medicine Handbook. In my case now, I have been prescribed Amoxicillin for this same type infection in the past plus my research tells me it is a safe antibiotic to start with. I feel my health would be at more risk by going back to that office.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

******* said:


> What do you mean by animal grade?
> 
> DIY medicating is not to be taken lightly but during a crisis will be better than the alternative... especially if you have some research books such as The Survival Medicine Handbook. In my case now, I have been prescribed Amoxicillin for this same type infection in the past plus my research tells me it is a safe antibiotic to start with. I feel my health would be at more risk by going back to that office.


''animal grade'' - WTF do you think this posting is about?????


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Illini Warrior said:


> ''animal grade'' - WTF do you think this posting is about?????


I think this discussion is that these fish antibiotics, especially from folks like Thomas Labs, are not a separate grade (animal grade) but are exactly the same human grade medication... just in a different box. That is why they are safe... and much cheaper. You have any evidence these antibiotics from Thomas Labs are animal grade & not the exact same medication you get from a doctor?

So once again, what do you mean by animal grade?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

@******* Does the "Survival Medicine Handbook" by Doc Bones contain specific information about fish antibiotics? I really need my hand held here: dosages for body weights and which antibiotics to use for which diseases would be a big help.

I'm not very prepped in this area, and I need to get some antibiotics into the fridge.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> @******* Does the "Survival Medicine Handbook" by Doc Bones contain specific information about fish antibiotics? I really need my hand held here: dosages for body weights and which antibiotics to use for which diseases would be a big help.
> 
> I'm not very prepped in this area, and I need to get some antibiotics into the fridge.


Yep it talks about the fish antibiotics and goes into detail regarding what they each can treat. I use that and multiple websites for info on dosage... mostly websites. But SHTF, I'll go to my printed library, including this book. Very important to use antibiotics sparingly, especially when used by non professionals. They do no good against viruses & can actually do you harm as they can kill off your good bacteria too. In my case, one has to know the difference between a viral cold & a bacterial sinus infection.

Mine are stored in my prep room, where it is cool, dark & dry. The vast majority of these meds, when stored properly, can last long past their expiration date.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> @******* Does the "Survival Medicine Handbook" by Doc Bones contain specific information about fish antibiotics? I really need my hand held here: dosages for body weights and which antibiotics to use for which diseases would be a big help.
> 
> I'm not very prepped in this area, and I need to get some antibiotics into the fridge.


Just do a google search and search for what kind of dose (of a specific AB, such as amoxicillin) to give a person of a specific weight. Easy to find.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

@******* Thanks. My wife has a bit of COPD, which develops into bronchitis every cold and flue season. She is prescribed ZYRTEC (cetirizine), which works every time. I need to prep that, or something like it, for her. I'm going to order that book right now.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

RedLion said:


> Just do a google search and search for what kind of dose (of a specific AB, such as amoxicillin) to give a person of a specific weight. Easy to find.


I like drugs.com. Here is the link for amoxicillin.

https://www.drugs.com/dosage/amoxicillin.html


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> [MENTION=16498]Thanks. My wife has a bit of COPD, which develops into bronchitis every cold and flue season. She is prescribed ZYRTEC (cetirizine), which works every time. I need to prep that, or something like it, for her. I'm going to order that book right now.


You are welcome. Glad to be able to give back to someone who gives so much here.

You learn that multiple antibiotics can treat the same condition, so that makes it difficult. Generally for things like sinus infection & bronchitis, seems you should start with the safe, penicillin based drugs, such as amoxicillin. If they don't work or you have a reaction, then shift to one based on a different family of drugs. Obviously that info is just for SHTF situations when you are on your own. I'm a printer, not a doctor... and I never stay at a Holiday Inn


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

For what it is worth, I find Walmart.com has really good pricing on these meds & free shipping. Take amoxicillin for example:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/FISH-MOX-FORTE-500-MG-100-COUNT/39882796


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

******* said:


> For what it is worth, I find Walmart.com has really good pricing on these meds & free shipping. Take amoxicillin for example:
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/FISH-MOX-FORTE-500-MG-100-COUNT/39882796


Do we need to be careful of counterfeits? I know that's a problem with electronics.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> Do we need to be careful of counterfeits? I know that's a problem with electronics.


Haven't heard of any such issue with these meds. Just stick with US companies & buy from reputable folks.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

******* said:


> For what it is worth, I find Walmart.com has really good pricing on these meds & free shipping. Take amoxicillin for example:
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/FISH-MOX-FORTE-500-MG-100-COUNT/39882796


FYI to the board. I just tried Walmart and Pets Plus and neither had this stuff. Online only, I guess.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> FYI to the board. I just tried Walmart and Pets Plus and neither had this stuff. Online only, I guess.


I've never seen it local either.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> FYI to the board. I just tried Walmart and Pets Plus and neither had this stuff. Online only, I guess.


when possible I prefer to send my biz over to outfit that supports the prepper sites with advertising....

https://www.campingsurvival.com/fish-and-bird-antibiotics.html?cat=796

if not heres a decent website that specializes ....

Free Shipping on Fish Antibiotics- Fish Mox, Fish Flex, & More!


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## maine_rm (Jun 24, 2017)

I know nothing about any of this!!!! This stuff is great!!

This is why I joined thanks guys


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

For the newer members on this site here is a great site for antibiotic and emergency care in SHTF times.
https://www.doomandbloom.net/?s=fish+antibiotics 
https://www.doomandbloom.net/survival-antibiotics/

For every antibiotic I toss into the freezer I go to a site such as drugs.com and print out basic info about it and dosing instructions. These notes are put onto the ziplock bag with the antibiotics before being tossed in the deep freeze. Non-Penicillin based antibiotics that are easy on the stomach such a Z-Pac can be hard to get.

You've already spent a bunch of cash on preps that hopefully will never be needed. Maybe you should conceder spending $50 on emergency antibiotics but never take them unless there is no other choice. Always go to your doctor, these meds are for emergency use only.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

@John Galt is freezing the best way to preserve antibiotics? I was wondering about that. Doc Bones recommends a dark, cool room.


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## maine_rm (Jun 24, 2017)

*FYI: "OTC" Antibiotics*

Would mylar with an oxygen absorber extend the life any?

Not that I would've ever done this. But what are your thoughts on over the counter antibiotics purchased in Mexico?

Pretty sure there's laws about trafficking prescription medications over international borders. And as an upstanding citizen I would never break any laws! I also wouldn't recommend anyone else in doing so!(hope that covers me)


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

maine_rm said:


> Would mylar with an oxygen absorber extend the life any?


Yeah, that too. Doc Bones says to store the drugs 'unopened'. They put oxygen absorbers into vitamins, I hope Thomas Labs adds them to a $35 dollar bottle of cephalexin (Fish Flex), but I don't know from experience.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> @John Galt is freezing the best way to preserve antibiotics? I was wondering about that. Doc Bones recommends a dark, cool room.


I mentioned freezing to a RN nurse friend and she told me that sudden temperature changes can alter some drugs effectiveness but admitted that the drug manufacturers don't test to see if that is actually true for their "med".. I researched it on the internet and found several sites discussing freezing meds of all types, nothing official, just people who have stored meds in their freezers, sometimes for over 10 years. In every case the people reported that the meds still worked fine.

So there doesn't seem to be and "official" testing of storing frozen antibiotics but real world examples seem to indicate that freezing once (don't continuously freeze and thaw) is a good way to long term preserve the antibiotics. When removing a dose of meds from the freezer try to keep the meds you don't intend to use in a frozen state.

On a related topic the US government back in the 1950s was testing to see how well food held it's vitamins during long term frozen storage. Foods held below 0 degrees kept almost 100% of vitamins but.... foods that were stored in temperatures above 7-10 degrees lost up to 1/3 of their vitamins. I keep the antibiotics in a freezer set at -5 degrees for this reason.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

maine_rm said:


> But what are your thoughts on over the counter antibiotics purchased in Mexico?
> Pretty sure there's laws about trafficking prescription medications over international borders. And as an upstanding citizen I would never break any laws! I also wouldn't recommend anyone else in doing so!(hope that covers me)


Before my trip to Mexico a while back I researched bringing meds back and found an answer written by a doctor in 2016. He said that you are allowed to bring back a 3 month supply of things like anti-inflamitories and antibiotics for personal use. No narcotics or mind altering drugs.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> is freezing the best way to preserve antibiotics? I was wondering about that. Doc Bones recommends a dark, cool room.


I've read freezing can do harm to some antibiotics. To be safe, I keep mine cool, dark & dry in my prepper room. When kept in such a way, my research tells me they are perfectly fine way past their expiration date. The article link below is very interesting. To sum it up, they found a box of prescription meds in a closet of a pharmacy that were decades old... some older than the moon landing. They took this opportunity to test then for potency. The findings surprised both researchers: A dozen of the 14 compounds were still as potent as they were when they were manufactured, some at almost 100 percent of their labeled concentrations.

This reinforces my decision to not freeze. Freezing may not hurt but plenty of research says it is not needed... so I don't. Plus they aren't very expensive, so I treat these drugs like my garden seed in storage. I just keep adding new each year but hold onto the old.

Most Drugs Are Still Safe To Use Years After Their Expiration Date : Shots - Health News : NPR


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

My property doesn't really have any rooms that stay cool, not a basement or root cellar, and most basements I've been in aren't very cool during the summers or if a furnace is in the basement. We keep the AC set at 75 and the closets tend to be much warmer than that during the summers. In my case the freezer is the best choice, especially for long term storage of meds. Keep in mind that "The temperature range for cool is about 50 to 65". I suspect that in the southern half of the US very few of us have a room for storing stuff that never gets above 65.

However I do date any meds I put into storage.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

John Galt said:


> I suspect that in the southern half of the US very few of us have a room for storing stuff that never gets above 65.


Guess I'm the exception. My prepper room, inside my upper barn, stays below 65 year round. Best way I know to store stuff long term... cool, dark & dry.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

******* said:


> Guess I'm the exception. My prepper room, inside my upper barn, stays below 65 year round. Best way I know to store stuff long term... cool, dark & dry.


I've considered digging into a dirt bank close to the house and putting in a root cellar but that's a long way off both in time and money. You must live way north and have shade on the barn.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

John Galt said:


> I've considered digging into a dirt bank close to the house and putting in a root cellar but that's a long way off both in time and money. You must live way north and have shade on the barn.


Would not such a room (cellar) be damp, in the south?

Yep, I live in north Mississippi and the barn is shaded. The room I built is completely enclosed and very well insulated, with no windows. An in-wall AC keeps it very cool & dry. I do have a chest freezer now outside on that front wall for stuff like seed. This pic is during the early stage of construction.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Ok, I was under the impression that the room was holding below 65 without any mechanical cooling and was a loft or something. Not a custom built room with AC taking up floor space inside a larger building. That's a little more than I'm interested in building.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

John Galt said:


> Ok, I was under the impression that the room was holding below 65 without any mechanical cooling and was a loft or something.


Dude... I live in Mississippi. 



John Galt said:


> Not a custom built room with AC taking up floor space inside a larger building. That's a little more than I'm interested in building.


Living where I do, that is the only option I had. Root cellars don't seem to work well around here & I don't know how you could get one to stay below 65 and stay dry.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Illini Warrior said:


> Doc Bones has no problem with the quality - only the DIY prescribing aspect of using animal grade OTC antibiotics ....


That's what Spice is most concerned about.

I'm not here to plug my blog (except I do put it in my sig) but we have articles there about this subject. The trick isn't whether the antibiotics work, the trick is finding the right antibiotic that you need and taking the full treatment...

Here's one she wrote about antibiotic resistance:

Two Keys To Prepping Against Antibiotic Resistance (CLICKY)


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

******* said:


> Dude... I live in Mississippi.
> Living where I do, that is the only option I had. Root cellars don't seem to work well around here & I don't know how you could get one to stay below 65 and stay dry.


That's why I thought it was so unusual for the "cool room". I applaud your commitment to storing your preps. Since you've put so much into it did you by chance add some EMP protection?


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

John Galt said:


> That's why I thought it was so unusual for the "cool room". I applaud your commitment to storing your preps. Since you've put so much into it did you by chance add some EMP protection?


Not the room itself but inside I have multiple of my 280w solar panels wrapped in multiple layers of foil & cardboard, plus have both Humless solar generators nested in the EMP bags and placed inside metal Faraday containers. My other critical electronics are in those containers too. If I were a rich man, I would have protected the whole room.

Thanks for the compliment. That means a lot coming from an intellect such as you. I always enjoy & learn from your posts. My thinking is I have a lot of money tied into thousands of lbs of food stores & it is important they be stored to ensure they are good for many years. Plus my wife was bitching that all my stuff was in her way. She was the one to suggest my building the room in the barn.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

******* said:


> . My thinking is I have a lot of money tied into thousands of lbs of food stores & it is important they be stored to ensure they are good for many years. Plus my wife was bitching that all my stuff was in her way. She was the one to suggest my building the room in the barn.


After reading your posts I've considered using an old small fridge and set it on it's warmest setting to make a mini "cool room" but then during the winter it would freeze occasionally. I'm not interested in trying to heat the room the mini fridge would stay.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

@******* Thanks for your recommendation. I've just received from Walmart.com my Fish Flex Forte (Cephalexin) and Fish Mox Forte (Amoxicillin) test order. The prices were reasonable for 100 count bottles. Looks good.

I wanted to also get some Fish Flox Forte (Cipro) but HOLY SMOKES, it's $210.36 for a bottle of 100. That's a bit steep. Do you buy this?

Also, if you've got a minute, what other antibiotics do you store. I value your opinion.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> [MENTION=16498]
> 
> Also, if you've got a minute, what other antibiotics do you store. I value your opinion.


Dude, you need to get out more. I'm just a dumb Mississippi *******. 

Here is what I currently store. I try not to mention amounts of what I store. My spelling on these may be off a bit. I have purchased from Camping Survival, Valley Vet & Walmart. Seems Walmart has the best pricing & also has free freight. Camping Survival likes to abuse my email now that I've ordered from them twice. I don't care for that.

Fish Flox Forte (Ciprofloxacin)
Fish Flex Forte (Cephalexin)
Fish Cillin (Ampicillin)
Fish Zole (Metronidazole)
Fish Flucon (Fluconazole)
Fish Mycin (Erythromycin)
Fish Sulfa Forte (SMZ TMP)
Fish Mox Forte (Amoxicillin)
Fish Doxy (Doxycycline)


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Ciprofloxacin is pretty rough stuff. Be sure to research it at Drugs.com

I'm not sure about some of the others but Erythromycin is rough on the stomach.

Azitromicina is what you get when the Dr gives you a Z-Pak (known as Zithromax in some countries). Good stuff but hard to get.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

John Galt said:


> Ciprofloxacin is pretty rough stuff. Be sure to research it at Drugs.com


I know. When I was a young man I had an acute prostatitis. I had to take it for MONTHS. It was very expensive. I have no idea if it permanently damaged me.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I know. When I was a young man I had an acute prostatitis. I had to take it for MONTHS. It was very expensive. I have no idea if it permanently damaged me.


Added to previous post. @sideKahr


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> I have no idea if it permanently damaged me.


Seems like it has.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

******* said:


> Seems like it has.


Nah, that was the alcohol and the unbridled sex.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

John Galt said:


> Ciprofloxacin is pretty rough stuff. Be sure to research it at Drugs.com
> 
> I'm not sure about some of the others but Erythromycin is rough on the stomach.
> 
> Azitromicina is what you get when the Dr gives you a Z-Pak (known as Zithromax in some countries). Good stuff but hard to get.


Most, if not all of these meds, can have side effects... some very serious. Remember one, Cipro I think, can cause the Achilles tendon to rupture. These are not to be played around with and I hope people don't take these posts to assume we use these products to self medicate ourselves. About the only one I'd consider doing so with would be Amoxicillin, as it is about as mild a med as you can find & I have been prescribed that in the past for the same condition.

But in a crisis, I'll use every resource I have to try to use them properly. I do plan on having medical professionals in my group.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I second *******'s warning. Don't take these drugs without extreme need in a SHTF situation.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I second *******'s warning. Don't take these drugs without extreme need in a SHTF situation.


I'll third it.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

As mentioned above never use antibiotics or any meds without a Doctor's advice but for SHTF antibiotics here is a good list of what treats what. Dosing notes can be read and printed out at drugs.com. List below is from this online ordering website Buy Antibiotics Online - no prescription required pharmacy

I've had good results with this site. http://good-pills.com/categories/Anti-Viral/all

Some pharmacies in England and Canada will ship without a prescription but realize it may sit in customs for 2-5 weeks before you receive the meds. Z-Paks (Azithromycin antibiotic), Prednisolone (steroid), and Amantadine (anti-viral), Keflex (antibiotic) are all worth considering and can be ordered online. They usually come in foil blister packs (no boxes or bottles) and are often made in countries like India but they are made to British or Canadian generic medicine standards which I believe are the same as US generic standards (read that somewhere).

*What antibiotic to choose?*
Following microorganisms action spectrum antibiotics are divided into: 
1) preparations effecting predominately gram-positive bacteria - penicillins, lincomycin; 
2) preparations effecting predominantly gram-negative bacteria - polymixins, monobactams; 
3) preparations of wide action spectrum: cephalosporins of the third generation, tetracyclines, aminoglycosides, amoxicillin(Amoxil), ampicillin. 
In order to definitely know what antibiotic bacteria are sensitive in each case, bacteriological examination should be done. But results have to be waited for long and there is usually no time. Therefore, doctors prescribe empiric treatment (that means antibiotic choice at random). It is easier to guess with antibiotic choice in case of preparations of wide action spectrum prescription. But when choosing antibiotic in an empiric way doctors still use definite rules. For example, otitis can be treated with either penicillin, or ampicillin. Antibiotic lincomycin well permeates into bones and is used for suppurative inflammation of bones treatment (osteomyelitis). But polymyxin is not absorbed into blood from gastrointestinal system at all and has effect only in intestine and it is useful for intestinal infections treatment. Following such clinically proved principle antibiotics for infection treatment in all organs and systems are chosen. 
Thus, in case of ENT-organs (ear, nose, throat) diseases cephalosporins (cephalexin(Keflex), cefaclor, cefuroxime, cefadroxil, cefdinir), oxacillin, amoxicillin/clavulanate, clarithromycin, azithromycin(zithromax), erythromycin, cloxacillin, ofloxacin, levofloxacin, lomefloxacin, ciprofloxacin are more effective. 
In case of respiratory system diseases cephalosporins (cefpodoxime, cephalexin(Keflex), cefadroxil, cefuroxime), azithromycin, minocycline, lomefloxacin, sparfloxacine, amoxicillin, clindamycin, lincomycin, linezolid, cloxacillin, clarithromycin are predominantly used. 
In case of some kidney infections lomefloxacin, ofloxacin, norfloxacin, levofloxacin, amoxicillin, azithromycin(zithromax), cloxacillin are applied. 
In case of urogenital system infections (cystitis) ofloxacin, norfloxacin, sparfloxacine, trimethoprim, minocycline, doxycycline, aminoglycosides, clindamycin, cloxacillin are used. 
In case of intestinal infections cephalosporins, polymyxins, nitrofurans, tetracyclines are used. 
In gynecology doxycycline, clindamycin, lincomycin, ofloxacin, tetracycline are used. 
In case of bone and joints infections lomefloxacin, levofloxacin, clindamycin, lincomycin, cloxacillin are used. 
In case of gastrointestinal system infections (helicobacter infections, gall bladder and bile passages infections) amoxicillin, ampicillin, aminoglycosides, metronidazole(flagyl), clarithromycin are used. 
In case of skin and soft tissues infections levofloxacin, clindamycin, lincomycin, cephalexin, erythromycin salve, ampicillin, linezolid, cloxacillin are used. 
In case of eye infections aminoglycosides, chloramphenicol, tetracycline, erythromycin are used. 
In case of intestinal infections (cholera, yersiniosis) tetracycline is used. 
In case of infections initiated by protozoa microorganisms tinidazole, doxycycline, tetracycline are used. 
In case of toxoplasmosis, tropical malaria clindamycin is used. 
In case of mouth cavity infections penicillin, aminoglycosides, ampicillin, amoxicillin are used. 
In case of sepsis, severe infections not sensitive to other preparations chloramphenicol, linezolid, cloxacillin are used.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Keep in mind that intestinal infections from parasites and protozoa from unclean drinking water will be a huge problem. When it comes to "fish meds" Doxycycline and Tetracycline are both on the list above for such problems. Both require food when taking to minimize an upset stomach. 
For your frisky folk both also work well for many STDs.

P.S. Yep, I still qualify as a "frisky folk", currently trying to breed my own "group" unlike many of the crusty old bastards on this site.
Oh I'm just a gigolo, and everywhere I go, women just seem to want me....


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## Tired_Yeti (Oct 1, 2017)

The strength of the dosage and the inactive ingredients/additives are what is different. Animal medications may be too weak or too strong for human use. Since the concentration is not likely to be listed on the label of a vet med, you won't be able to know how much to adjust the dose for safe efficacy.

_"The more you know, the less you carry. The less you know, the more you carry." - Mors Kochanski_


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> The strength of the dosage and the inactive ingredients/additives are what is different. Animal medications may be too weak or too strong for human use. Since the concentration is not likely to be listed on the label of a vet med, you won't be able to know how much to adjust the dose for safe efficacy.


I think you must have missed all the discussion regarding the fish meds use human strengths, have no additives & are produced on the same machines as human meds. They are the exact same meds just packaged & marketed differently.


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## Tired_Yeti (Oct 1, 2017)

*FYI: "OTC" Antibiotics*



******* said:


> I think you must have missed all the discussion regarding the fish meds use human strengths, have no additives & are produced on the same machines as human meds. They are the exact same meds just packaged & marketed differently.


Cite your sources, please.

It's an interesting concept. I know there are a lot of conspiracy theories floating around about the medical community being only out to make a buck and there's no reason why you can't just DYI all your medical care, but the reality is that it's more complicated than that.
It takes some knowledge. That said, you have an interesting idea and I'd like to learn more.

P.S. The VENDOR is not a reliable source as they are looking to make money.

_"The more you know, the less you carry. The less you know, the more you carry." - Mors Kochanski_


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> Cite your sources, please.


The sources are all the doctors, nurses & researchers who have written articles and made videos, like those referenced in this thread. The drug manufacturer will not publicly state this, for obvious reasons. Now as we all have stated, there is no 100% guarantee but that is good enough for me. You have to make your own choices. I choose to trust these fish meds as for me, having no antibiotics during a crisis is WAY WAY WAY more risky than having these on hand.

Understand the government has labeling standards for all meds, so that if someone has a reaction the health providers can discern just by the description what the person ingested. These fish meds have the IDENTICAL physical characteristics (size, shape, color & labeling) of their human counterparts. Can you imagine the lawsuit if a major drug manufacturer changed the formula or anything with a med & failed to change the labeling/description? Now if you got the meds from China or wherever, yes they would & could do so. That is why all state to use US companies. I only use Thomas Labs.

I would not recommend other animal meds for humans even though I know from my vet friends many work just fine. Problem with them is like what you mentioned, different dosage & maybe additives. What makes fish antibiotics so special is, with the US made ones, they have no additives & use the exact same dosages as the human version. They are known to be made in the same factory as the human equivalents.

Point is, I can't give you a source that states they are 100% safe. If that bothers you, prep without them. I and many others choose to have them on hand for a crisis.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

One source. Doc Bones and Nurse Amy on Fish Antibiotics

I've got a fairly extensive article on this topic printed out by these two but I don't have the time this morning to look it up.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Tired_Yeti said:


> Cite your sources, please.
> 
> P.S. The VENDOR is not a reliable source as they are looking to make money.


Can you please cite your source for your comment that they are not the same and that they are weaker? Really I want to know and have been thinking about researching the apposing force. Please, a first start for you would be to click on the link that John provided. Doctor Alton and his wife Nurse Amy are very well known in the prepper community. Do a search on the forum. I created a thread that has several YouTube videos on the subject. Look on the web for a pill identifier. Compare, they are the exact same pill.

Yes I agree with you the retailer is not a source to verify its potency or ingredients but it is a start to get basic information. I see you have a relative short thread count. Are you new to prepping? Either way just a friendly tip when you make counteractive suggestions as fact you may want to insert your sources first especially when it is on the ass end of a thread when everyone has already debated it and now says it is Gods greatest gift. Just joking I didn't even read the thread because it is so old.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Why do people say state your sources? I can see if it is rocket science or something really F'd up. Normally If it isn't in the thread that I posted and I didn't feel like it was important enough I tell em to piss off and look it up themselves. If you are wasting your time on a forum, you have a couple minutes and do a quick search. If I am totally wrong then please someone tell me and why.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

******* is correct of course about pet/fish antibiotics being the same as human. Exactly the same.


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## Tired_Yeti (Oct 1, 2017)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Why do people say state your sources? I can see if it is rocket science or something really F'd up. Normally If it isn't in the thread that I posted and I didn't feel like it was important enough I tell em to piss off and look it up themselves. If you are wasting your time on a forum, you have a couple minutes and do a quick search. If I am totally wrong then please someone tell me and why.


I have a busy day today and don't have much time to post a lengthy response at the moment. So I'll come back to this thread and expound on my thoughts. That said...

Just quickly: I'm a nurse. I first started working in healthcare in 1994. Prior being a nurse, I was a civilian medic, then an Army medic.
I'm not sure where to start with someone who thinks "rocket science" (aerospace engineering) is "F'd up" but medical science is not.

Rocket science is science but anatomy, physiology, immunology, endocrinology, pharmacology, chemistry, microbiology, etc. are not?!
I wonder how many people in here who are planning to stock their own "prescription only" meds can answer any of the following:
What are T cells and B cells and how do they relate to your immunity?
Can you explain the difference between a gram negative bacteria and a gram positive bacteria? Can you explain what the difference means in regard to what type of antibiotics will work will work with one type of organism and not the other? or which antibiotics are needed for one type or the other? A broad spectrum antibiotic may or may not treat what ails you.
Can you explain the difference between a virus and a prion?
Can you explain what a helminth is? and why treating them can be rough on your body and make you very sick?
What about side effects? Do you know what to expect or how you will treat them?

In quick summary, my original point was that the amount of a drug necessary to treat a fish that weighs one ounce is going to be different from the amount of that drug necessary to treat a 160 lbs man. The medications are packaged accordingly. So...the point was (not that these things won't work or can't work)--just that there are a number of things to consider when planning your stock pile.
Is having antibiotics on hand better than not having them? Probably. If you know what you're doing. If not, you may be ineffective at treating yourself.

_"The more you know, the less you carry. The less you know, the more you carry." - Mors Kochanski_


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Tired_Yeti said:


> In quick summary, my original point was that the amount of a drug necessary to treat a fish that weighs one ounce is going to be different from the amount of that drug necessary to treat a 160 lbs man. The medications are packaged accordingly.


When you get that extra time, check your statement. You will find you are wrong. The fish meds use human dosages... yes even to treat a tiny guppy in a gallon of water.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Tired_Yeti said:


> In quick summary, my original point was that the amount of a drug necessary to treat a fish that weighs one ounce is going to be different from the amount of that drug necessary to treat a 160 lbs man. [/i]


Actually in many cases they are not packaged in different amounts. Does 250mg sound about right for amoxicillin?
Fish Mox - Amoxicillin Fish Antibiotics in 250 mg and 500 mg - Free Shipping!


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

There ya go on the fish antibiotics. I have a chum who goes to the feed store instead of a doctor when he gets sick. He claims they work like a charm and are much cheaper. i forget right now how many he takes but it sounds about like what the doctor would prescribe for whatever they are peddling this week. I will double check when I see him next weds if anybody wants to take some.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Tired_Yeti said:


> Just quickly: I'm a nurse. I first started working in healthcare in 1994. Prior being a nurse, I was a civilian medic, then an Army medic.
> I'm not sure where to start with someone who thinks "rocket science" (aerospace engineering) is "F'd up" but medical science is not.
> 
> Rocket science is science but anatomy, physiology, immunology, endocrinology, pharmacology, chemistry, microbiology, etc. are not?!
> ...


You know for being the new guy around town you sure are cocky. 
Glad your a nurse, an EMT and a Medic. Loose the cockiness and you will be an asset around here. Myself I was a 91B Combat Medic for a few years then I moved on to bigger things. The rocket science crack was to be meant as a smart ass comment. You mentioned a bunch of topics. How did you learn them beside having an instructor? You read a book. You do know that during a bad SHTF a lot of medicine is going to be a guessing game?

Its SHTF, your kid has some kind of infection how are you going to treat it? You do not have a lab to test samples. You just happened to have fish antibiotics, are you going to administer them to your kid or let the kid die?

You mentioned that the dosage is different. I challenge you to purchase a bottle of antibiotics flavor of your choosing. Look on Pill Identifier (Pill Finder Wizard) - Pill Identification Tool Using Drug Pictures, Color, Shape, Number, or Imprint or any of the common pill identifier websites and compare the pill you received to the pill on any of the common websites. I did this with the antibiotics that I received and they were identical. All lettering, coloring, shape and size for said dosage was the same. They were identical.

Its that simple. In prepping you do with what you have or what you can get your hands on. You improvise, adapt and overcome.

Do you follow strict expiration dates or will you use older meds(pill form)? Curious, just curious.

Edit: I forgot to mention that you should do a search on the forum for antibiotics. There are a lot of up loads and you can see what we have looked/read. Most of those up loads are government articles or short books.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

There was a member here "retired nurse" who had a ginormous amount of info on this. Might do a search to find, wow, she knew her shit. I would put her knowledge up against most anyones. Now that I thought about it, maybe it was "tired nurse".


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

I swear by the fish meds, the dose is the same as it is for humans, but I have a real problem getting my guppys to swallow those pills..

Seriously, you put the tablet in the tank, the fish swallow a very reduced amount of the drug in the water, which is why you don't need to worry about if they are the same doses or not.

*Rancher*


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Tired_Yeti said:


> I have a busy day today and don't have much time to post a lengthy response at the moment. So I'll come back to this thread and expound on my thoughts. That said...
> 
> Just quickly: I'm a nurse. I first started working in healthcare in 1994. Prior being a nurse, I was a civilian medic, then an Army medic.
> I'm not sure where to start with someone who thinks "rocket science" (aerospace engineering) is "F'd up" but medical science is not.
> ...


Dude are you coming back to this thread?


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## Tired_Yeti (Oct 1, 2017)

*FYI: "OTC" Antibiotics*



MaterielGeneral said:


> You know for being the new guy around town you sure are cocky.
> Glad your a nurse, an EMT and a Medic. Loose the cockiness and you will be an asset around here. Myself I was a 91B Combat Medic for a few years then I moved on to bigger things. The rocket science crack was to be meant as a smart ass comment. You mentioned a bunch of topics. How did you learn them beside having an instructor? You read a book. You do know that during a bad SHTF a lot of medicine is going to be a guessing game?
> 
> Its SHTF, your kid has some kind of infection how are you going to treat it? You do not have a lab to test samples. You just happened to have fish antibiotics, are you going to administer them to your kid or let the kid die?
> ...


Someone asked me to cite my source for my question. I did, essentially. My source is my education.

To restate my original point, perhaps more clearly...if you want to stock meds (any meds, vet meds or otherwise), there are things to consider. That's literally all I was saying.

The reason I posted initially is because I didn't want someone wandering into this thread from the internet and thinking they could just carelessly stock up on vet prescription meds without thinking and be "good". That might be a false sense of security that could cause someone trouble later. I've seen a lot of people suffering long hospital stays because they followed Dr. Google rather than knowing when to consult a professional. Treating yourself is great as long as you know when you're over your head and need professional help. I've treated many very sick patients who thought medical science was just common sense and something they could figure out on their own. It's not. So my point was just to caution people to slow down and THINK through their plan carefully. I posted several questions that any doctor or nurse would know the answers to just as an example to show that medicine is not just common sense and is actually quite complex. At least as complex if not more complex than rocket science. That's reality. Is that cocky?

When the SHTF and you improvise and treat yourself, do what you gotta do. Your chances are 50/50. If you don't know what you're treating and you haven't brought a medical person into your prep community, then you'll be taking guesses and gambles. At least you know that going in.

I don't claim to have all the answers to all the questions about the safety or efficacy of vet meds for humans. I'm not opposed to people using them either. I may very well stock some myself when I get to that portion of my prepping plan.

To summarize it. Basically, my points were: 
* I'm not opposed to it. 
* THINK and don't fall into a false sense of security about having meds around.
* I know what I'm talking about.

I think it's the last point that people find cocky. Well, somebody somewhere knows a lot about any subject. Are they all cocky?
Or was is just me because I was assertive enough to pose some hard questions that may have shot holes in some misconceptions?

I was an Army NCO, I've worked for LE, and I've worked in a max security prison. I have an assertive personality. Sometimes I'm very blunt also. It's just the way a personality develops over years of working in those environments. Don't take it personally. Most people who've met me like me. I'm really not a mean guy. I apologize if I hurt anyone feelings here.

To answer one direct question, NO I don't strictly adhere to expiration dates on many things. However, if I take an expired med, I watch the results closely because medications weaken over time and at some point after the expiration date the effect will be diminished. If I take an expired med and it's weak or ineffective, then I have no other choice but to trash it and buy a new one. Most meds become weak after their expiration date; some meds become toxic. There are fewer meds that become toxic but nearly all will begin to weaken.

Like I said before, I like the idea of the vet meds. It's best if you know the limits of the drugs. Truthfully, antibiotics have limited value anyway. They only kill bacteria and not every antibiotic will kill every type of bacteria. They have no effect on viruses or prions. They only effect they seem to have on fungi is to make a fungal infection worse (by removing the bacteria that was hindering the growth of the fungus).
Of the things required for an infection to be acquired the most important one is a "susceptible host". So the BEST thing you can do is to stay in good health. DON'T be a susceptible host and you won't get an infection. Keep your immune system healthy and protect yourself from known disease vectors (sources).
Even nasty stuff like pulmonary anthrax requires a susceptible host. There have been people who contracted anthrax and survived. Pulmonary tuberculosis has NO cure. So avoiding exposure to the disease vector is key. TB stays with you for life but can be treated with meds to make it go into remission; however, when your immune system weakens, you'll be vulnerable to a flair up of active TB. Of course we know that it can be fatal. Back in the old days, TB was called "consumption". One famous example was the poet Edgar Allen Poe's wife, Virginia, who "died of consumption" at the age of 24.

There are several OTC meds that can make you a less susceptible host and I would encourage people to consider those. For example, guaifenesin (Mucinex) keeps mucus thin and keeps it from thickening. It allows you to cough it out and blow it out your nose. The benefit is that bacteria colonizes in mucus. So if you eliminate it from your body, you are less likely to fester a bacterial colony that will be grow large enough to overwhelm your immunity. Sudafed dries mucus which can also prevent the overgrowth of bacteria. Sudafed is also a decongestant. The side effect is it's a strong stimulant (which may be of some benefit at times). Everyone should certainly have Benadryl on hand. It's a strong antihistamine very useful to treat allergic reactions. It's also effective at treating nausea. The side effect is drowsiness (which may be of some benefit at times). When I say "the side effect" I mean the most common one; not the only one. Anyway, the OTC drug list is long but you all get the idea.

Bottom line: stay healthy and know the characteristics of the disease you're up against. If you smoke, drink alcohol, are overweight, eat too much sugar, etc. you can change that. You have to prepare your body before preparing your medicine cabinet will do you any good.

BTW, a long the lines of the vet meds, there are some websites where you can buy expensive prescription medications for peanuts outside the US. Of course the FDA and Big Pharmaceutical don't want you doing that, but I've done it. The meds come from places like India and are the EXACT same drugs sold here in the US but they are much cheaper, easier to get, and the packaging is discrete.
One last thought along those lines. The same goes for vet meds! I buy mine from Australia and their much, much cheaper than the US.

**Wow! OK. Well, I typed a long thought out reply but the site only posted the last 2 paragraphs. Sorry, folks, that's out of my control.
Unless my display is toying with me.

_"The more you know, the less you carry. The less you know, the more you carry." - Mors Kochanski_


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## Poeazot (Nov 13, 2017)

Though there are hundreds of antibiotics in clinical use, they all work in one of the following ways: 1) interfere with the formation of or directly attack the bacterial cell wall and weaken or injure the cell wall until it bursts and can no longer attack the body 2) stop the bacteria cell from multiplying or reproducing by damaging the bacteria’s ability to grow new cells.


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