# Get a 308 bolt action or keep the mosin



## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

Hi everyone
I've been thinking about this lately and started wondering what your thoughts are on my subject. I have a 91/30 mosin that I've been to the range with a few times. Right now it has only iron sights on it. I shoot it at 100 yards and can hit a man size target with the iron sights. I wanted to get a scope for it but its looking like my only options are a scout style scope(which I do not want) or having to modify the bolt handle and having a gunsmith mounting a pu style scope on it. Would I be better off getting a light hunting style .308 rifle or keeping the mosin and modding it. One of the reasons I'm leaning towards the mosin is because of the price of ammo. Just want to know your thoughts.
Thanks James


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

Grab a .308. I would go with a Remington 700 variation as there are SO many different things you can do to them if you decide..


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

There are at least a dozen standard scope mounts available for the MN. The original PU sniper rifle mounts complete with the scopes, or Rock Solid Industries makes a nice mount, it goes on and on. The scout rifle type mount is most popular right now because it's the "latest thing" is all.

American logic is "No matter what, more is better", if your a subscriber, stick with the Mosin. It IS more powerful than the .308. The benefit of the .308 is the amazing range of commercially available MODERN ammunition, and available rifle style choices. The fact that it's quieter shooting, with less muzzle flash makes it the better "sniper" choice. There are a lot of benefits to either gun though. But given that the Mosin sells "new" for about $129 from most places, your not going to get enough for it as a trade to validate giving it up imo. Hang on to it long enough and it MAY go up in value. People used to buy 1903's for $79 all day long, NOW look what their going for!!! 

Keep the Mosin and get the .308 as well.


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

I had never seem the rock solid mounts. They are sweet!! I going to get the mount with the bolt handle 
http://www.rocksolidind.com/mosin-n...und-receiver-scope-mount-bolt-body-combo.html

If I'm not completely happy with it ill end up getting a rem/ 700 or a savage. 
Thanks for the info 
James


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Doing anything to a Mosin is like polishing a turd. The advancements that have been made, even a Walmart rifle will out perform a Mosin. They are what they are. It's like an old muscle car, very cool but if you truly want performance buy a new car.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

One of, if not THE most successful sniper of all time. Vasily Zaytsev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Zaytsev made an estimated 400 kills, some of which were over 1000 meters" The guy made confirmed kills at 900 yards with a standard issue Mosin WITH OPEN SIGHTS! Definition of that? He is "THE MAN"!!!

If you like guns at all, "Enemy at the Gates" is a MUST SEE. Enemy at the Gates (2001) - IMDb


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

BigCheeseStick said:


> One of, if not THE most successful sniper of all time. Vasily Zaytsev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> "Zaytsev made an estimated 400 kills, some of which were over 1000 meters" The guy made confirmed kills at 900 yards with a standard issue Mosin WITH OPEN SIGHTS! Definition of that? He is "THE MAN"!!!
> 
> If you like guns at all, "Enemy at the Gates" is a MUST SEE. Enemy at the Gates (2001) - IMDb


Definitely the man and not the equipment.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

If the rifle is only shooting minute of man at 100 yards sounds like a shot out barrel.


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

No the barrel is good. The ranges I have access to are only 100 yards. I have a friend that lives out in the middle of the woods that has a 300 yard range but I don't feel good shooting my mosin at that distance and missing and maybe hitting a house or someone else a mile away. I cant move closer because we are shooting across a swamp and can't setup anything closer. I use to shoot my old 30-30 and 30-06 at those distances with no issues but I had more confidence because they both had scopes at the time I owned them. Another reason why I was thinking of keeping the mosin is because I already have an ar15 and will be getting another one by the end of next month. I was going to use the mosin or what ever .308 rifle for hunting bigger game. I guess it would be more of a shtf hunting rifle... 
Thanks again
James


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Throw the mosin in your vehicle as a beater gun. A Savage is accurate enough that 99.99% wouldn't be able to be as accurate as. 7.62NATO can be shot in a 308WIN.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Meangreen said:


> Definitely the man and not the equipment.


Vasily's the man. Mosin's a gun not the gun. Considering this mornings festivities at the DC Naval yard answer these questions.... What do you have? What can you get? Are you better starting anew? Are you better supplementing and or enhancing what you have? Think about it...


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

The Mosi is a fun-gun that will do in a pinch, Keep it. I have some 180gr. Sellier & Bellot soft tips for hunting if needed but there is not a good variety available. They would tear up a medium to small animal (southern deer and smaller). Will be getting an entry level Ruger or Savage (American or Axis) fairly soon, hopefully. Unsure yet, if I want the 243 or 308.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

308 that was an easy one


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Keep the Mosin and add a .308, that's easy.
By having both you double your opportunity to find suitable ammunition.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

"Keep the Mosin and get the .308 as well"

I agree, I have em both. I recommend adding a Mosin M-44 to your mix as well. M-44 is a shorter barrel M91/30.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

SDF880 said:


> "Keep the Mosin and get the .308 as well"
> 
> I agree, I have em both. I recommend adding a Mosin M-44 to your mix as well. M-44 is a shorter barrel M91/30.


And a _viscous_ spike of a bayonet built right in!  I declare the first of us to kill a wild boar with an M44 bayonet *KING OF THE FORUM!*


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Well that rules me out because we don't have wild boars in Idaho, how about expanding the list and giving the rest of us a chance...


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm going to keep the mosin regardless. What I was really wondering if You guys think I could get by with just the mosin put a scope on it and get a few 880 cans of ammo. Or keep the gun the way it is and just have it to have fun with and buy a 308 bolt gun for my shtf gun?
I guess that's a better way to ask the question lol..
Thanks for the input 
James


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Its just nice to have a beater gun you don't have much invested in. I have a Spanish FR8 for that & it shoots 7.62NATO. So I suggest keeping it then getting something like a Savage bolt gun in 308WIN & put a decent scope on it.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Check out Ruger's Gun Sight Scout 308. I put a 24 inch eye relief scope on it. I can transition from seeing a target to cross hairs quicker than any other gun/scope combo I have.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

thegtwyo86, my own choice would be to go with the .308 with a good scope on it and keep the Mosin as a backup. Remember, in a SHTF situation _anything can happen_. And the first time _any_ scoped rifle gets dropped... The whole rifle is a paper weight unless you can get that scope off and use backup iron sights.

Seneca, the piggy's aren't all that far away! According to the map your just not looking hard enough. ;-)
Wild Pigs are a Growing Threat to Hikers on the Trail

Your welcome down South for all the bayoneting fun you like to!


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Seneca said:


> Well that rules me out because we don't have wild boars in Idaho, how about expanding the list and giving the rest of us a chance...


Killing a rock chuck with a bayonette doesn't seem quite as challenging, wolf maybe? One thing going for the rusky is you can't buy 440 rounds of .308 for under $100.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Seneca's neighbors are already counting on him! Unwelcome Invaders: Wild Pigs Pose a Serious New Threat to Idaho | Exotic species threatens agriculture, the environment and wildlife | Features | Boise Weekly

And that's one SERIOUS looking pig!!!

Great point about ammo cost between the two rifles!


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

PalmettoTree said:


> Check out Ruger's Gun Sight Scout 308. I put a 24 inch eye relief scope on it. I can transition from seeing a target to cross hairs quicker than any other gun/scope combo I have.


Does your gun have any issues with mags?
I was watching nutnfancy do a run and gun with a gun sight and the mags kept jamming on him. I wanted one of those guns since they came out but that kind of turned me away from it when I saw the mags may be an issue.
Thanks again everyone 
James


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> Doing anything to a Mosin is like polishing a turd. The advancements that have been made, even a Walmart rifle will out perform a Mosin. They are what they are. It's like an old muscle car, very cool but if you truly want performance buy a new car.


Why I never...somebody oughta' wash your mouth out with soap MG. That's just a terrible, mean thing to say. Spiteful. You should be ashamed of yourself. And I thought we were friends.

I would keep the Mosin and mod it. Lots of new goodies just for them out there. I guess you would have to read my threads/replies on the Mosin to understand how I feel about them. Apparently, my buddy MeanGreen hasn't (way to be insensitive).

Also, scout scope. Can't use your stripper clips with a rear mounted scope. Get a Brass Stacker System and you can even keep your factory sights. Shorten the barrel? They have a kit to replace your front sight. It just goes on and on...


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I like my 91/30 I never intended for it to be a long range weapon, However it you want to scope it, check out this video for food for thought. PS I haven't done anything the guy on the video mentions because for now I am happy with just Iron sites on it. Hope it helps;


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

thegtwyo86 said:


> Does your gun have any issues with mags?
> I was watching nutnfancy do a run and gun with a gun sight and the mags kept jamming on him. I wanted one of those guns since they came out but that kind of turned me away from it when I saw the mags may be an issue.
> Thanks again everyone
> James


I haven't had a problem. I have the M-77 LGS 6814 (left handed). I do not like to hunt with the large capacity mag that comes with the gun. I purchased a composit mag that when installed comes down even with the trigger guard. That makes it much easier to carry.

Now I never run and gun. My guess it is more difficult to get the mag lined up on the run. That hardly qualifies as a problem for me. But if that is your sport my guess it is a break in issue.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

So... Rule #1 says "ALWAYS improve your fighting position." Sometimes that means your location, your cover an concealment, your sleeping arrangement, your food and water supply. Simply put that means you should always have an eye out for acquiring assets and reducing liabilities.

The Mosin is a fantastic rifle and it is as battle tested as they come. Only the blunt stone has more battlefield lineage and provenance. But that being said, the Mosin is also the most state of the art gun that could be MASS-PRODUCED BY THE LOWEST BIDDER in 1891. Or to put that another way, it was the best bad decision you could make 120 years ago. History is populated with Mosin Success Stories, but these people succeeded because a Mosin was all they had. I still maintain that it is a fine weapon today but it is what it is. They haven't re-revolutionaized the MN for a reason. There is nothing you can do to it that will make it as good as a modern (a design less than 74 years old) rifle.

So I would tell you that if a Mosin is all you have and you are BETTER THAN GOOD with it, then you have a fine asset. But if you have the chance to step up to a Savage, Remington, Mossberg rifle in a similar caliber, then you definitely should. Both will drop any animal in North or South America, but I think you will find that a 700 does it a little easier and better.

And a modern weapon will be easier to carry and service / clean - and lets face it, you will do 10 time more carrying a rifle than you ever do shooting it.


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks for the input guys . Still haven't made up my mind....lol......I'm going to get my wife's ar15 first and keep shooting the mosin and after a wile if I find myself not happy with it ill look into another gun. 
Thanks again
James


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

Keep the Mosin and buy the .308 also. Nice to have a second rifle around especially since you can stock up on ammo cheaply for it. If I were looking for a new bolt rifle I'd look into the Ruger American or if money is no object I'd look into the Ruger Gunsight Scout Rifle which looks like it might be just about the perfect rifle.

-Infidel


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Run some good ammo, like Norma through that mosin from a bench and it might surprise you.


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## 71Chevrolet (Nov 19, 2012)

thegtwyo86 said:


> I'm going to keep the mosin regardless. What I was really wondering if You guys think I could get by with just the mosin put a scope on it and get a few 880 cans of ammo. Or keep the gun the way it is and just have it to have fun with and buy a 308 bolt gun for my shtf gun?
> I guess that's a better way to ask the question lol..
> Thanks for the input
> James


Like others, I'd say keep the Mosin and buy a 308 to put a scope on.


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## 71Chevrolet (Nov 19, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> Definitely the man and not the equipment.


This woman(20 years old) used the same equipment


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## Foxfire (Nov 9, 2012)

Keep the Mosin. Because you already have it. 
get 440 or 880rds of ammo, if you don't already.
Then, start looking at 308's.
Research before you buy, is VERY important


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Boyds: FEATHERWEIGHT THUMBHOLE MOSIN NAGANT MILITARY BARREL CHANNEL FOREST CAMO LAMINATE (FINISHED) FT Featherweight Thumbhole

Quite a change for any Mosin I've seen. And at $99!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The Mosin is what it is you can dress it up trick it out in the end it is still a Mosin.
Really more of a low cost novelty. But if you are on a tight budget it beats a copy of a for sale ad for a 308 on the desk.
If you already own one why let it go it is yours paid for and not a big investment.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> The Mosin is what it is you can dress it up trick it out in the end it is still a Mosin.
> Really more of a low cost novelty. But if you are on a tight budget it beats a copy of a for sale ad for a 308 on the desk.
> If you already own one why let it go it is yours paid for and not a big investment.


About the same could be said for any and everything... Mosins are a ballistic equivalent to a 30/06, and as reliable as smashing an egg by dropping an anvil on it. _Plenty_ of power to kill anything in North America I've ever seen. Ammo is CHEAP. Prairie dog hunting with .223's, or the RARE elk hunting trip aside, how many hunters in the united states are HONESTLY taking game over 100 or 200 yards? _HONESTLY._

If you call Boyds you may get lucky and get the stock for only $82!

Boyds' FT Mosin Nagant NL $82


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

Several years ago I would have said go with a 24-26 in barrel for better accuracy. Now though, as long as you get a fast twist rate like a 1 in 10 you can go with a 20 inch barrel and be just as accurate... It will help with weight too. Especially if you go with a bull barrel like I prefer..


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

PrepConsultant said:


> Several years ago I would have said go with a 24-26 in barrel for better accuracy. Now though, as long as you get a fast twist rate like a 1 in 10 you can go with a 20 inch barrel and be just as accurate... It will help with weight too. Especially if you go with a bull barrel like I prefer..


Look into Cryo treating. I think you'll be happy with the results! Saves having to lug around heavy bull barrels, accomplishes exactly the same thing (prevent temperature change from moving your POI). Manufactures will actually admit they don't do it in place of bull barrels because it's not a marketable. You can't see it / brag about it / people aren't willing to pay for it.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

BigCheeseStick said:


> Look into Cryo treating. I think you'll be happy with the results! Saves having to lug around heavy bull barrels, accomplishes exactly the same thing (prevent temperature change from moving your POI). Manufactures will actually admit they don't do it in place of bull barrels because it's not a marketable. You can't see it / brag about it / people aren't willing to pay for it.


I'll have to look into it..


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Should be able to find a local shop that does it if you have any industrial parks in town. Call around a little to local shops and you may have some luck. I used to be able to get it done for $20 bucks and a case of beer in MI! :razz:


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

So....plans have changed, I have sold my mosin to a person in my group that would use it more than I would have..so it's going to be a 308!!
I would really like something on the light weight side but still be able to get good groups with and maybe something I could find used for a good value.Any suggestions? 
Thanks 
James


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

H&R Ultra Hunter Rifle .308 22" Laminate $314.00 SHIPS FREE


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Mossberg 4X4 MB FL LBA 308 MT SYN $303.00 SHIPS FREE


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Remington 700 VTR 308 22 ATACSCAMO $756.00 SHIPS FREE

All depends on your budget...


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Ruger 77 Mark II Target .308 Win $744.00 SHIPS FREE

I've got this guy. _Accurate as HE.._, but something of a big heavy monster after a few hours in the woods!


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks
How are the mossberg 4x4s? 
I already know I would like the ruger and the rem/700.
Also what any savages? 
I can probably spend up to 700-1000 on this gun including scope. That's why I was wanting something used.
Thanks again 
James


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Mossberg's 4x4 Bolt Action Is A Real Tack Driver

I've seen them in gun shops, and thought the machining was impressive for the price range for sure (I'm an engineer / journeyman machinist / instructor).

IMO you can't go wrong with a new Savage either. In the last 7 or so years they've REALLY stepped up their game on barrel boring technique and design. Their overall machining isn't "pretty" by any standards. But they've put in the effort where it counts and produce some of the most accurate rifles on the market today imo.

Get some "hands on touchy feel'y" with both manufactures products in local shops. Even if they don't have exactly what you want, you'll know better what your getting if you order something onine and have it shipped. Plus you get a chance to ask the dealer what their transfer fee is.

People will flip their lids over this,  but looking at the machine work and accuracy tests both online and what I've seen in real life... Remington ain't cuttin it anymore, and hasn't been for a decade now. NOT at their price range anyway. Savage and others have stepped up their game and left Remington still needing to catchup. JMO!


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I would probably look real hard at the Ruger and Mossberg, leaves enough money for some good glass.


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks for the info guys 

James


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

My friend had a gun shop in Dade city called Dow arms build him a rem/700. It will shoot a dime group at 300 yards. My only issue with it is it's 15-20 lbs and he payed 4500 for the gun and scope lol......I was also looking at These if anyone has any experience with them.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...08_win_wcoyote_sand_synthetic_stockscope_&_ri

Or

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/411551680/leg_hog_tgt_mstr_308_fltd_grn

I don't know about the scopes that come with them though. I can't find one locally to put my hands on it to see if I like it or not.
Thanks 
James


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## 71Chevrolet (Nov 19, 2012)

Consider the Ruger American.







-Mike
(Click to enlarge photo)


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## thegtwyo86 (Sep 2, 2013)

71Chevrolet said:


> Consider the Ruger American.
> View attachment 2722
> 
> -Mike
> (Click to enlarge photo)


Man that a light gun, I might have to find on e and take a look at it.
Thanks 
James


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

71Chevrolet said:


> This woman(20 years old) used the same equipment
> View attachment 2677


There is some interesting black and white footage of this woman talking at a women's rights meeting and they treated here like a caged animal. She was not your average women. I looked on youtube for the footage with no luck but It is worth a look at the amazing films about women snipers.


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