# For You AR Shooters



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...ar-15-m16-ar-308-recoil-buffer-prod66657.aspx

My SR-762 punishes me with every pull of the trigger. While I enjoy shooting my Savage .308 bolt action and my M1A Scout, the Ruger SR-762 sits in the safe so it can think about its vicious demeanor.

I went shooting with DCC (Member of the Taurusarmed.net forum), yesterday. Mainly we launched rounds from our bolt actions, but he brought along his AR-10 so I could feel the difference the Kyntec recoil buffer makes. Boy, did it make a difference! His AR-10's recoil is more like that of an AR-15, now.

For $120, my AR-10 can be tamed, the parts can last longer and the optics don't get the crap kicked out of them along with my tired, old shoulder!

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...ar-15-m16-ar-308-recoil-buffer-prod66657.aspx


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

That's a great idea and an easy install. My shoulder is still pretty good, but I often wonder about the stress that recoil puts on various high dollar optics. 

PS I don't buy as much from Brownells as some of you but every time I do, I'm impressed with their customer service.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks, I'll give it real consideration for next month's SS check. While I don't have a problem, the wife doesn't like the 10.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I won't be shooting anything heavier than a .223/5.56 until my shoulder is completely healed. 
+1 For Brownells
I like their selection of factory parts. I've done business with them for about 30 years.


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## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

There are a fair number of rifles with kick like your 7.62! My hardest kicking assault rifle is a German 1980 made original HK91. My Springfield M1A is behind it (somewhat less kick), then my M1 Garand. But it's subjective. Maybe I'm a woose, I don't get a thrill from shooting handguns that kick much above a 240 gr. 44 Magnum loads! A day of shooting a couple of my 12 ga. shotguns gives me shoulder soreness for a good couple of days! All you cowboys that get your jollies from those aptly named "Hand Cannons" can keep them (along with the arthritis you are inducing in your joints!)! To boil it down to .223 / 5.56 level...by then, recoil has been diminished to the point that it shouldn't present a problem for anyone. I don't believe that the current military issue small arms caliber is too much of a pipsqueak to be a deadly and effective weapon. For wild game, such as say...some varieties of deer, elk, or other larger animals, it can be argued that it is not a great "stopper". But let a human get hit with a round of.223 and it is definitely not going to be the same! Humans are much, shall I say, "softer" targets than any deer and sustain the effects of being shot much more poorly. Ever heard of a deer (or similar wild animal) being shot through the lungs yet RUNNING AWAY IMMEDIATELY? Shoot a man through both of his lungs in a similar fashion and it will be the rare individual who does more than perhaps stumble a few feet and collapse! Television has many believing that a shot to the shoulder is one that will only be painful for a short while...you'll be up and firing your UZI in a couple of hours! NOT SO! A fellow who takes a round to the shoulder, or even say the upper arm (I'm talking about good hits, not "flesh wounds"!) is mostly no longer going to be an effective combatant, excepting when his attackers corner him and he fires his last rounds with his non-dominant hand! For that reason, I believe the .223 round to be a fine choice for most survival scenarios. (Armored foes change the rules of the game!) And the point I am actually trying to make is...why the HELL did I buy those 7.62 rifles to begin with? Hmmmm......? But they are good at penetration of cover!

Grim Reality
......................................

Crap! Now I remember!! Because Mel Tappan said so!!


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Tubbs carrier weights and or a heavy buffer would do the same thing. Another option would be to use an adjustable gas block and tune it for the load you are shooting. With an adjustable gas block you can pretty much tame anything. 

You are playing with the bolt timing when you trying to tame recoil. If your gun is over gassing you are getting punished, of you are under gassing you are not cycling. The buffers, carrier weights and springs are all able to mask/ control the problem of over/ under gassing but only an adjustable gas block can cure it.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I always thought the M1A was easy on the shoulder and the AR10 really not all that bad, what am I missing in this equation. On the other hand a Ruger Gunsite scout in .308 dispensed a hefty wallop on both ends.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Are we really discussing the recoil impulse from a DI 7.62 NATO Round????????


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

yes we were, I take it you have nothing to add to the discussion.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm not sure the recoil will change on the optics, mount or parts.

All you're changing is the felt recoil. I may not know WTF I'm taking about though, but if it allows you to shoot it, go for it.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Are we really discussing the recoil impulse from a DI 7.62 NATO Round????????


 This was exactly what I was thinking... Heck, my 300 Win mag isn't all that bad. But I've been shooting for 40 plus years.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

dsdmmat said:


> yes we were, I take it you have nothing to add to the discussion.


Normally I'd add the formula to figure the amount of recoil, probably something to explaining how the added mass of moving parts changes the recoil pulse effecting Optics. Why DI's have the lowest perceived recoil. But in this case, I think I'll add: It sounds as if you just need to refit the butt of Your SR-762.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Normally I'd add the formula to figure the amount of recoil, probably something to explaining how the added mass of moving parts changes the recoil pulse effecting Optics. Why DI's have the lowest perceived recoil. But in this case, I think I'll add: It sounds as if you just need to refit the butt of Your SR-762.


it is most likely the weapon is being overgassed, since a heavier buffer cured the situation for Denton. Most 308 ARs are overgassed (oversized gasport) from the factory since there is a variety of comercial loads they will be expected to operate flawlessly on.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Nothing is worse on perceived recoil than an ill fitting butt-stock. As the Bolt Action isn't a problem, the DI AR Style which is closer to center-line should reduce perceived recoil. If it doesn't, than look to the fit of the butt-stock. The amount of gas required to cycle the action has no effect on perceived recoil, but softening the Harmonic Pattern of the action vibrating the rifle will have an effect on an Optic.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Nothing is worse on perceived recoil than an ill fitting butt-stock. As the Bolt Action isn't a problem, the DI AR Style which is closer to center-line should reduce perceived recoil. If it doesn't, than look to the fit of the butt-stock. The amount of gas required to cycle the action has no effect on perceived recoil, but softening the Harmonic Pattern of the action vibrating the rifle will have an effect on an Optic.


I humbly disagree with your stance on the effect overgassing has on perceived recoil. when an overgassing situation occures in a DI gun the bolt is unlocked sooner and pushed to the rear faster giving it a solid thump when it encounters the rear of the buffer tube. While an under gassed weapon will have the oppisite effect not having the umph overcome both pulling the expanded brass from the chamber and the reciol spring/buffer and will short stroke the weapon.

Another symptom the shooter experiences with overgassing is much more gases towards the face adding another negative perception to the recoil. Overgassing can also lead to rims being bent or ripped from the case and or a broken extractor.

Adding mass to the bolt carrier, a stiffer buffer spring or a heavier buffer will reduce the perceived recoil on overgassed guns just as the op described.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Chipper said:


> This was exactly what I was thinking... Heck, my 300 Win mag isn't all that bad. But I've been shooting for 40 plus years.


Hey OP, he's cal;ling
U a WIMP


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## Quip (Nov 8, 2012)

That might be a nice choice for a ladies ar15. Less felt recoil on a smaller framed person has got to be a plus.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

My M44s and my G3 type .308 clone let me know I'm holding a rifle. I love them. My AR is still the go to duty rifle. Just like a 9mm handgun. I can get more accurately placed rounds downrange quicker with a lighter recoiling round. I grab the gun that fits the mission. .308 when there is something between me and the objective. 5.56 99% of the time.

I carried a Smith model 66 .357 back in the day. I loved it. I quickly learned than a 9mm with some weight would place 4 rounds in a single, ragged hole in the same time I could get 2 out of the Smith. 9mm is no joke. You can call it an underpowered round, but which would you prefer in your aorta? a .38 caliber .357 or a like sized 9mm? Uh huh, Me either.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

dsdmmat said:


> I humbly disagree with your stance on the effect overgassing has on perceived recoil. when an overgassing situation occures in a DI gun the bolt is unlocked sooner and pushed to the rear faster giving it a solid thump when it encounters the rear of the buffer tube. While an under gassed weapon will have the oppisite effect not having the umph overcome both pulling the expanded brass from the chamber and the reciol spring/buffer and will short stroke the weapon.
> 
> Another symptom the shooter experiences with overgassing is much more gases towards the face adding another negative perception to the recoil. Overgassing can also lead to rims being bent or ripped from the case and or a broken extractor.
> 
> Adding mass to the bolt carrier, a stiffer buffer spring or a heavier buffer will reduce the perceived recoil on overgassed guns just as the op described.


Attempting NOT TO BE Argumentative: Shoulder a McMillan TAC-50 Bolt Action for 100 rounds a day 365 a year, then shoulder a Barrett 82A1 for 100 rounds a day 365 a year. There is no perceived recoil dampening to cycle the action on any bolt action! If the Bolt Action Rifle that isn't aligned to the recoil centerline isn't a problem. The trouble lie's in the design (Shooter fit) of the butt-stock. JMHO.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Attempting NOT TO BE Argumentative: Shoulder a McMillan TAC-50 Bolt Action for 100 rounds a day 365 a year, then shoulder a Barrett 82A1 for 100 rounds a day 365 a year. There is no perceived recoil dampening to cycle the action on any bolt action! If the Bolt Action Rifle that isn't aligned to the recoil centerline isn't a problem. The trouble lie's in the design (Shooter fit) of the butt-stock. JMHO.


Ian not disagreeing with you on alignment, just your discounting of an improperly tuned gas system and its effects on perceived recoil.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

What would happen to perceived recoil if you shut off the gas on your improperly tuned gas system? Would it then function as a bolt action and need to be cycled by hand? Need I ask more dsdmmat?


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

M118LR said:


> What would happen to perceived recoil if you shut off the gas on your improperly tuned gas system? Would it then function as a bolt action and need to be cycled by hand? Need I ask more dsdmmat?


I suppose you do. 
it would feel exactly like a bolt gun. If your bolt gun automatically opened and slammed into your shoulder then returned into battery it would feel like a semi auto. Recipicating mass and the speed it travels also plays a part in perceived recoil.

if you overgas an M1 Garand is the perceived recoil going to be more or less than one that is properly tuned? Or is the bent op rod going to be your only indication you used the wrong powder in your load.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Try it. We shall talk again. Until you have the experience I shall remain silent.

PS: How many op rods have you damaged with the gas shut off??????????


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Well remaining silent may be your best action.

You cannot bend an op rod with the gas off, but you can bend an op rod by sending it back at higher than normal speeds. 

I guess the whole overgasing control industry has been created out of smoke and fairy dust to control a non issue. 

Denton must not know how to shoot, after all he was only Army and he could not possibly know good fundamentals of shooting. He has been duped by the industry to buy their smoke and fairy dust to correct a non issue he was having with his weapon.

Denton you have been duped your heavy buffers could not possibly cure the overgasing and timing issue you imagined, get your money back quick and go to school to learn how to shoot.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

dsdmmat said:


> Well remaining silent may be your best action.
> 
> You cannot bend an op rod with the gas off, but you can bend an op rod by sending it back at higher than normal speeds.
> 
> ...


The only over-gassing discussion happens to be coming from you dsdmmat. Denton just doesn't like the recoil of the SR-762. So much to due about nothing. Magpul PRS, end of trouble.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

M118LR said:


> The only over-gassing discussion happens to be coming from you dsdmmat. Denton just doesn't like the recoil of the SR-762. So much to due about nothing. Magpul PRS, end of trouble.


Whatever you say!
Troubleshooting Your AR Build

"GAS ISSUES 
Nope, Beano will not work in this case. One of the most common causes of problems on the AR format are those related to the gas system. Too much gas ends up battering both you and shortening component life, but too little affects functional reliability."


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

dsdmmat said:


> ..."GAS ISSUES
> Nope, Beano will not work in this case...


I really have no idea what my good pals are debating, but dsdmmat gets a point for invoking "Beano" in the discussion.

Your move M118LR:encouragement:


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Cool idea. I still shoot my .300 win mag, but every time that I do it reminds me who is boss.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Cool idea. I still shoot my .300 win mag, but every time that I do it reminds me who is boss.


Are you shooting the OMEN from NEMO Arms? I have been looking at one but still haven't figured out how to get it behind enemy lines into the PRNY. 
https://nemoarms.com/rifles/


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

dsdmmat said:


> Are you shooting the OMEN from NEMO Arms? I have been looking at one but still haven't figured out how to get it behind enemy lines into the PRNY.
> https://nemoarms.com/rifles/


Lol, no. My savage .300 win mag bolt gun. Thanks for giving me another gun that I must have.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Lol, no. My savage .300 win mag bolt gun. Thanks for giving me another gun that I must have.


I had a savage 110 in .300 RUM it was not pleasant to shoot at all. I had a Hart 30 inch heavy bench rest profile barrel put on my 700 this year. It is chambered in 30-06 the thing is an absolute joy to shoot but, not carry from the house to the truck and back.


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## screwedby (Oct 21, 2015)

Slippy said:


> ....
> PS I don't buy as much from Brownells as some of you but every time I do, I'm impressed with their customer service.


Brownells is putting me in the poorhouse.

I bought a couple cheap red dot sights several months back that were junk. I didn't expect much for $100 each, but lesson learned. I went to the Brownell site to do a review on them and got a prompt email reminding me of Brownells lifetime garuntee.

So I sent them back for credit then purchased a couple $500 sights.

If they stand by me like I'm their best friend - I'll support them.

Lower then Dirt can shut down and Midway can go with them.
If Brownells has what I'm looking for I don't even check prices elsewhere.

Somebody does me dirty, Ill still be whining the day they throw dirt in my face. But if they are good to me I tell everyone about it.


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