# SCENARIO #5 FORTIFICATION (inspired by movie, Demons)



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

This scenario may not apply to everyone nevertheless your input is needed. How would you go about this if you're experiencing it?

Scenario: You live alone in a highrise apartment complex, only a block away from the hotspot. You hardly know your neighbors. There's riots and lootings outside. Grocery stores are empty. Calling 911 doesn't help. Cops are very busy at the moment. Help may come, or it may not.

It's also a serious concern that many people in your building may know who lives alone, and who's vulnerable. 

You don't own a gun. You're caught hardly prepared. Your food supply could last you only for about a week or so. But maybe - hopefully - the problem wouldn't last that long and everything will be back to normal.
Right now, the main problem is surviving that first week.

How do you fortify your apartment to make it difficult for them to come in? How do you fortify that door?

How do you raise your chances to survive?


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## Doomsday (Jun 25, 2013)

Install these top and bottom. Assuming you have a hammer and nails. You can get the wood from bed slats.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Why don't you own a gun? Not legal where you are? You have philosophical objections to owning one? You fear you may not be able to use one for its intended purpose?


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Leave... 

My niece and her husband live in São Paulo in a high rise that was ground zero for the protests a few months ago. I believe they are ready to move back to the states. But in the mean time they have stocked up on food and general supplies. No weapons. My niece, God love her and I do too, is one of "those people".. Extremely anti gun and very liberal. 

The irony is she expressed support for the demonstrators but was scared $shitle$$. Some people will never learn. Those that she supported would have probably robbed and killed her. How's that for irony.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

1. If you do not own firearms and know how you use them you decided your own fake and good luck.
2. How long can you last hold up in an apartment with no way out.( without a weapon good luck)
3.Anyone in this situation is a person that the term B.O. applies to. (without a weapon good luck)
SHTF and you are unarmed you are just the next victim.

vic·tim
ˈviktəm/
noun
noun: victim; plural noun: victims

1.
a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Doomsday said:


> Install these top and bottom. Assuming you have a hammer and nails. You can get the wood from bed slats.
> View attachment 3156


this fortification will work very well.... only if the door and its door frame is made out of steel, if not this can only prolong the inevitable. the door could be destroyed and the intruder will get in. without weapons you will not survive. your best bet is bug out before things get really bad and out of control.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Move #1 is go get that fire axe and extinguisher out of the hall (required to be there by law). For that matter, go get the one's from the floor above you to! Now you have a legit "anti-intruder" weapon. Somebody banging on the door with a chance of knocking it in? Open it and immediately bury that axe in a skull! Jump back in, lock the door and duck out of the way for possible gun fire from dead guys friends if he had any with him. If there were others outside, yell "LEAVE NOW OR WE OPEN FIRE AND YOU *ALL* DIE!". They don't know who or whats inside with you. And GOD KNOWS there are hundreds of easier targets than this nut!!! At least you've now done what you can.

Know what works just as good as a steel door and frame? Shop Master Lock Door Security Bar at Lowes.com Unless they completely break your door in half and crawl through the hole... Their NOT getting in!


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## sargedog (Nov 12, 2012)

I think survival is part mental, with my mindset I HAVE a firearm. I will use said firearm to protect my family, for us we will stay put till absolutely have to go. Our preps are here, If we have to leave it would be several weeks I think before we would open the door. We will at least let most of the unprepared die off. Then we will move to our BOL, where we could live almost comfortably forever.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Multiple slats across the doors - especially at the hinges but between the hinges too. I would have already filled the tub with water and disconnected the water heater to store water in. Inventory supplies and consider all their uses. Start making a ladder / rope to be able to get out through a window. Block and secure any window that has a fire-escape to it in order to limit exposure. 

If someone wants in then in most cases they can just come through the wall. In a highrise the walls are a layer of 1/2" drywall (gypsum board) some insulation and another layer of drywall. You can kick a hole big enough to get through. I would put heavy furniture against the walls - it will at least slow someone down.

Gather all the water I can carry, knives and whatever tools I had and what food I have into a pack made from bed sheets (like the rope) or blankets, put on multiple layers of clothes and at 3:00 to 4:00 AM I would make my way out of the building to the ground while everyone is asleep. I do not want to be in that building if it starts to burn. That would be like sitting in a canvas tent soaked in kerosine. I would steal my way (sneak not take what belongs to others) to a "safer" place. Since this seems to be a local event I would head away from it and the population center around it. I would set up a perimeter with leg holds, rakes, and other traps that can be made from whatever is available. Then I would hunker down with natural camouflage and get some rest before the next night. 

I would start the next night by making a bow, arrows and some kind of spear. I would then put more distance between me and the population. (rinse, repeat until I got to a good water source and where I could set up food traps and a good defensive perimeter. Then I would build a shelter that would blend in and be just large enough for me and my gear to be snug in. From then on it is just living until something changes.


Note: If you can't get to "safe" ground nest in a tree if there is one available. Tie yourself and your gear as high in the tree as you can get and sleep there. People rarely look up when searching for other people. (especially at night but daytime hours too)


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Shtf - gun = sol


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Shtf - gun = sol


Only if you don't use your head. Survival depends less on the tools you have and more on what you can do with what you have.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

PaulS said:


> Only if you don't use your head. Survival depends less on the tools you have and more on what you can do with what you have.


Correct but your main tool is your brain, and if you are worried about holding off armed or numerous people in a locked room you should have used your brain and bought a shot gun at least, which I think is legal in most states in the USA. I don't care if you have a 3" thick steel door in a high rise apartment they can come through the walls. About the only thing you could hope for in that situation is to escape with your life.


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## Southern Dad (Nov 26, 2012)

The fortification shown early would work fine. The idea isn't to turn your apartment into Fort Knox. That isn't going to happen overnight, that takes a bit of structural changes on the walls, doors, windows, etc. However, what you do want to do is make all your neighbors easier targets. Thugs are generally lazy. They'd rather deal with the path of least resistance.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I think the thugs may very well think the more fortified you are the more you probably have and I haven't seen any of the purely defensive measure that would take more then a few minutes of a dedicated group to defeat. Even a small battering ram would knock the door frame out of the wall no matter how secured the door was nailed to it. I guess you could hook a hose up to your hot water heater and turn the heat all the way up for some more deterrence but I don't think that would hold anyone back for a long time.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I think the down fall of a lot of people will be thinking that the enemy is not as smart as they are. So turn the situation around someone stole all your stuff and barricaded themselves in a room in an high rise apartment do you think you could get your stuff back.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Why don't you own a gun? Not legal where you are? You have philosophical objections to owning one? You fear you may not be able to use one for its intended purpose?


No specific reason why there is no gun. It just happens that there is no gun in this scenario.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Hornet spray / oven cleaner works just as well as the best of pepper sprays. Throw a glass of bleach / nail polish remover in their eyes. Any aerosol can is a potential flame thrower. Large kitchen knives are always handy. Pour cooking oil in a trash bag and fill it with gas from any line in the house and tie it shut _tight_, leave it by your front door and when they bust it in spray it with your aerosol can flame thrower. Probably burn the place down, but it'll F THEM UP, and keep them out long enough for you to go off you balcony with a rope, or jump down to the balcony below yours.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

PaulS said:


> Only if you don't use your head. Survival depends less on the tools you have and more on what you can do with what you have.


Very well-said!!!

You could've. You should've. Doesn't matter anymore to be wringing my hand and waste my time and energy blaming myself and fantasizing about the what-ifs. You only end up demoralizing yourself.

If you simply throw your hands up in the air and define yourself as a victim - of course you're surely end up a victim. You could take your chances and open the door wide and tell them to help themselves.....how sure are you that they won't end up killing you?

Just because someone doesn't have a firearm doesn't mean it's game-over. As the saying goes, it ain't over til the fat lady sings.

Decades ago, I was single and new to the big city and living alone for the first time in a highrise. The guy I was seeing knew I was nervous....so he showed me what I could do. He got a sturdy pole and propped one end of it against the door (just under the handle, and the other end against the wall (my entry way made that possible).

If I'm in that scenario (and it's too late to get out), I'll try to do what that guy showed me (if it's possible), and do all sorts of barricade (including the ones shown by a poster here), and take into consideration the advice given about fortifying a door. All the furnitures will be against that door for added fortification. Everything and anything heavy, and anything I can add to make it harder for them to get in! I'm trying to buy time.

If you can use all your furniture to brace it, and everything else until it finally reaches a wall...that will be awesome, I think. They may try to axe their way through that door - who carries a handy ax this days? 
Will they even be willing to waste time looking for an ax to use only to find out there's hardly anything valuable in there....chances are, they'll move on! The looting spree can only last so much so they'll want to make the most of their time.

Besides, how many men can simultaneously push at the door? At the most it will be two who can push hard while it will be awkward for the rest of them. The door is only wide enough.

Then I gather all the essentials I need (WEAPON of any kind! water, food, cellphone, etc) and choose a place to have my *last stand.* Maybe the washroom. I'll fortify the door. The curtain rod (if it's sturdy and strong can be propped perhaps against the door. Or I'll use a chair!
If they managed to breach the front door...hopefully they'll spend the time looting the place and won't bother wasting time trying to get to a washroom!

I won't make any sound they can hear. I'm hoping that they won't know how many people are in that washroom. I'll also turn off all the lights before I lock myself in the washroom. 
Most especially in the washroom - because you'll see their shadows underneath the door but they won't see yours.

In the meantime, I'll keep texting people I know and keep calling the cops. Or if I can manage to get out through the washroom window (if it's not too high), maybe I'll do that when they indeed start going for the washroom door.

Btw....in real-life, hubby and I are not unarmed.

This scenario is dedicated to those living alone or anyone who'll be forced to bug-in , and may be wondering how they can fortify their homes.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> I think the down fall of a lot of people will be thinking that the enemy is not as smart as they are. So turn the situation around someone stole all your stuff and barricaded themselves in a room in an high rise apartment do you think you could get your stuff back.


In a normal situation....I wouldn't do that myself. We've got cops!

In a SHTF situation....depends if my stuffs are worth the risk of getting killed or maimed over it. 
If I wasn't able to defend my stuff from getting stolen in the first place, what makes me think I can get them back?

I think survival in the given scenario is more dependent on thinking how the looters would think. Putting yourself in their shoes.

Would they rather waste precious time trying to break into an apartment in a highrise building.....or will it be more profitable to go to single homes and big homes?

How much valuables can they hope to find in an apartment compared to big houses? Especially when they have to divide the loot up among themselves? The more houses they can ransack, the better for them.

Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to write a big note that they'll surely see when they come in the front door saying, "Nothing much of value in this place. What you see is all I have. I'm flat broke!"


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

In the two above post the outcome was the same the best you can hope for is to escape. 
Charito: It's not how many can push on a door at one time, a simple 16 lb sledgehamer and long pry bar would quickly defeat almost any door or door jam, if that isn't enough if they have a weight room a couple of men using a 200 LB barbell would. 

I still have not seen anything that could stop a few armed men from entering your apartment. If you wait until the SHTF you are probably to late.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I always thought it would be more interesting if someone would make a scenario where we would pick a side from some trying to defene and others trying to attach and see what the outcome would be.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> I always thought it would be more interesting if someone would make a scenario where we would pick a side from some trying to defene and others trying to attach and see what the outcome would be.


Try that....should be interesting. Make a scenario.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> In the two above post the outcome was the same the best you can hope for is to escape.
> Charito: It's not how many can push on a door at one time, a simple 16 lb sledgehamer and long pry bar would quickly defeat almost any door or door jam, if that isn't enough if they have a weight room a couple of men using a 200 LB barbell would.
> 
> I still have not seen anything that could stop a few armed men from entering your apartment. If you wait until the SHTF you are probably to late.


You can't stop someone who's determined to come in. That's a given. Unless they have specific information that you've got some valuable possessions, if you're a stranger to them....chances are they won't waste time trying to get to the washroom (your last stand).

Chances are high I'll die in that scenario.....but there's also a chance that I won't. Giving up, is a sure way to die or get really hurt.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Most apartment building forget the door go through the wall nothing much there but studs you can get pass.
Ever watch how you can punch through a wall to the side of the jam reach in unlock it.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

We hit on this a while back, but I'm loosing where an apartment is easier to break into or somehow less secure than any house... If anything I see them as being at least a hundred times MORE secure! A house can be accessed from every window, door, wall, even the roof by any 8yr old kid. Any apartment over the second floor is pretty much out of reach other than from a single entry point. The front door.

Smitty brings up an excellent point, but if somebody busts into the apartment next to the one your in your going to hear it. And if they come busting through the dividing wall. Your going to have a pretty good chance to swing that fire axe you got from the hall way and shear their heads off as they poke them through (Whack a Mole!). :lol: They may punch a fist through the drywall, but studs aren't nearly far enough apart to get more than that through easily, so start chopping on that fist! Dividing apartment walls are SPAGHETTI inside with all the pipes and wiring. If an intruder comes through a dividing wall while your in the apartment I can only think it's because you stood back and watched for 10-15 minutes while he did it.


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## Southern Dad (Nov 26, 2012)

No doubt you will not be able to keep out a mob or a prepared thug who happens to be carrying a battering ram with him. But fortifying the door will slow down most general thieves. Especially with all those softer targets up the hallway. Sure there are thing you can use in the home to discourage the person even more. A little boiling water (if you have gas or a fireplace), hair spray and a lighter, fire extinguisher, frying pan, knives, etc. If someone starts working the door pretty hard you can find out quickly enough what's behind the drywall as you enter the next apartment quickly enough.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

OIL!

If you have hardwood floor, and you know it's a do or die situation - pour oil on the entryway . Or let the outside of your doorway soak in oil. If they managed to push through your barricade, they'll be sliding all over the place.


If you have a handheld sprayer, fill it with gasoline or kerosene and aim for the eyes (so you instantly limit their vision), make sure you turn off your sprayer and then light them!

I think the main goal is to prevent anyone from breaching your front door. If your front door entry holds up, you can listen which wall they're trying to breach and defend that wall.

You can also pretend that you're not alone, and that you're armed by shouting, "Give me the gun! It's in the lower drawer!" or something like that.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Why would they even give you a chance, if they have a gun and you don't they are just going to bust a couple of holes in the wall then pop you if you are anywhere in the room. I still say in that situation the best you can hope for is to save your ass, your supplies are theirs for the taking. You would need at least a bow or cross bow something with a little range but I think they are just to slow in follow up shots.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

I don't know, and I can't fathom why I would be in this situation. A lot of good ideas though. If i had a hammer and nails and box springs or a slat bed I would pull off the door trim inside and nail some slats across the door to the WALL FRAME. Then I'd look for flammable liquid I could spray under the door and light if someone started to break in. Keep it by the door with something to make fire with. Then I'd see if I have any wooden handle brooms and mops and whittle the handles into points making spears. If they were fiberglass or metal hopefully I'd have some duck tape and I'd tape some steak knives to them. Then I'd hunker down for awhile and see what happens.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Arizona Infidel said:


> I don't know, and I can't fathom why I would be in this situation.


It's not far-fetched to find one's self in a similar situation. It may not be the exact illustration but the idea is the same.
Someone can be at work when the SHTF, but he has to go home to get his family....or his pet....and find themselves suddenly trapped at home.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

charito said:


> It's not far-fetched to find one's self in a similar situation. It may not be the exact illustration but the idea is the same.
> Someone can be at work when the SHTF, but he has to go home to get his family....or his pet....and find themselves suddenly trapped at home.


It is VERY far fetched to find myself in a similar situation.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

I GOT IT! Use a screw driver and poke out the glass in your peep hole. Your GOING to hear them coming. There is _no way_ you won't hear people busting into and rummaging around in the other apartments before they get to yours right? Watch for them to get to your door through the glassless peep hole, and when they get there you spray hornet spray through the hole for like 20 seconds (it acts like pepper spray but worse!), then as you continue to spray, hold a lighter up to the stream. Everybody in the hall bursts into flames! WOOOT!!! BBQ looter for dinner! Pre-cooked! Tear off a "wing" and while you eat, see what they found in your neighbors apartments that you can use. THEN TAKE THEIR GUNS!


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## Southern Dad (Nov 26, 2012)

While this scenario may seem far fetched, I was in Washington DC in a hotel just recently. This scenario brought that visit back for several reasons. There are certain cities and/or states that you cannot bring/carry your side arm legally. DC is one of these places. The hotel is a high rise with inside hallways and entrances. No matter how much we prepare we can wind up in a worst case scenario.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

rickfromillinois said:


> Of course we can say "I would never be in a situation like that without a firearm" but that's us, what about those who think that firearms are terrible, until there comes a situation where they wish that they had given their emotional decision a little more reasoned thought. If that happens, what would they do then?


 hopefully die.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I would hope that they would keep their wits about them and use what they had to preserve their lives. It's not a tomb until you're dead.


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