# The perfect SHTF gun



## Blackcat (Nov 12, 2012)

This may have been asked before. Infact its probably been asked a few times in the vast prepping world.
If you could design the perfect gun what would it be ?

Mine would likely be this:

Basically something like an SKS for looks, feel, reliability, semi auto. Floated heavy barrel, short like a scout rifle or guide gun in .30-06. Open sights, and detachable scout scope (something rugged)
20 round detachable magazines, left handed or fully ambidexterous controls (charging, safety etc)
Quick detach supressor, and... Although I dont think its been invented yet, shell collecting magazine. Basically rather than ejecting spent brass it feeds it back down into the mag into a collecting chamber. Or possibly just a detachable brass collector over the ejection port. Really I hate chasing brass (that stuff is like gold).


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

An Armalite AR-10 with a Browning semi automatic 10 gauge underneath the barrel. They make plastic and cloth brass catchers.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Anything carried by the largest fighting force in my area.
I want to be fully familiarized with the most common and versatile option I'm surrounded by.

In my case, that's the AR-15(M4).
I cannot foresee a day when I will not be able to find parts or ammunition for that gun.

EDIT: I added a Glock 19 to my collection for this reason, as well. They, and their bigger brother the 17, are ubiquitous within the surrounding police departments.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I would be fairly happy with an FN SCAR 17 with optic and back-up iron sights in .308.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Sounds like a Ruger Guide gun would your description.


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## Blackcat (Nov 12, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Anything carried by the largest fighting force in my area.
> I want to be fully familiarized with the most common and versatile option I'm surrounded by.
> 
> In my case, that's the AR-15(M4).
> I cannot foresee a day when I will not be able to find parts or ammunition for that gun.


Ive considered this as well but there is no such thing as a fighting force anywhere near me lol. Lots of hunters though, so I try to keep my gear in line with that. Since my whole existance is about metalwork and being able to make damn near anything ive been looking into all the replacement parts I can fabricate myself in a pinch. Most of it is pretty straight forward. Components for the ammunition seems to be the most difficult part. Primers and powder mostly. Unless I revert back to something less modern like a blackpowder flintlock rifle. Something I could build in my sleep.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

300 WSM bolt action,with a filled plastic stock, cushy recoil pad with lots of powder and M2-AP bullet.

The reason should be fairly straightforward and obvious.

The 300 WSM - Ron Spomer Outdoors

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/223054.pdf

section 2.5


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

For what it is worth...

For me the perfect gun happens to be the one I have handy at the time I need a gun. Might be a 10/22 or it might be a 45-70. The reality is no such critter exists, though there are those who claim to have seen one or are in possession of one. I have yet to see proof or evidence to support such claims.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Phased Plasma Rifle in a 40 Watt Range.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

The perfect weapon for shtf is a gun that can be used for cqb and long range work. It has to be a common caliber, light weight, easy to use and very accurate.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

For me the perfect gun would be a 12 gauge carried inside the USS Maine (SSBN 741)


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Is the Maine an Ohio.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Blackcat said:


> Unless I revert back to something less modern like a blackpowder flintlock rifle. Something I could build in my sleep.


Consider this my formal request for a new thread on this topic...

Please continue.


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## Leeroy Jenkins (May 16, 2015)

Armalite AR10 with 16" barrel...


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

What if the largest fighting force in the area is enemy.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

James m said:


> What if the largest fighting force in the area is enemy.


If you're a good shot, you're never out of supplies.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

James m said:


> Is the Maine an Ohio.


yes ohio class


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

a single shot break open 12 gauge shotgun.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> If you're a good shot, you're never out of supplies.


I have maintained for a long time that either I will be dead or I will have more ammo POST SHTF... much depends on the first couple of battles


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Anything carried by the largest fighting force in my area.
> I want to be fully familiarized with the most common and versatile option I'm surrounded by.
> 
> In my case, that's the AR-15(M4).
> ...


Nailed it! Though I really love my 1911's, revos, etc - I'll take an M4 and G19 for those exact reasons.


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## Blackcat (Nov 12, 2012)

Just came in from the shop for some lunch and now I cant keep up with this thread lol.
All of these rifles are great ideas. Im really looking at some of the AR 10's but atm I cant really justify a new gun. I have now have guns for every possible use and to say Im getting a new ome just because... Doesnt slide around here lol.

Its true there never seems to be one "perfect" gun but I try to choose firearms that cover as many bases as possible. My "perfect" gun described above is just the closest thing to it for my use. 

The .30-06 being one caliber I have used and fnd useful but dont currently own is my choice because its one of the most common rounds in my neck of the woods. Versatile, flatter shooting than .308 and less pushy than .300 win mag. Of course a good phase rifle is always handy 

What sort of spin off thread did you have in mind Kauboy ? A build thread or a discussion of the pros and cons or something completely different ?


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Blackcat said:


> Just came in from the shop for some lunch and now I cant keep up with this thread lol.
> All of these rifles are great ideas. Im really looking at some of the AR 10's but atm I cant really justify a new gun. I have now have guns for every possible use and to say Im getting a new ome just because... Doesnt slide around here lol.
> 
> Its true there never seems to be one "perfect" gun but I try to choose firearms that cover as many bases as possible. My "perfect" gun described above is just the closest thing to it for my use.
> ...


What if the enemy has level IV armor?


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm not completely following, but don't they just stop 7.62 at the chest plate? That still leaves a lot of real estate unprotected.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

I have a good selection already.there is really no "perfect" weapon.any of them may have their uses,depends on the situation and,every situation is unique.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> What if the enemy has level IV armor?


Remember the old childhood song ... "Head, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes."


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## Blackcat (Nov 12, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> What if the enemy has level IV armor?


What Hemi45 said lol. Doubt I would run into any real decent body armor around here but you never know. Body armor is illegal in my province... Possibly all of Canada I dont recall. You cant buy it here but im sure people make their own.

A large moat ? Possibly filled with boiling oil... And dragons.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

No one gun can do it all well. If I could only have one gun and no other in a survival situation...AK 47 although I would be happy with m-1 garand, Mosin Nagant, sks, Remmington 870. Lots of other good choices out there also that I would not feel under gunned with.


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## Renec (Dec 21, 2012)

The one I happen to have when SHTF


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Every job has its tool. I do like the Phased Plasma Rifle but in 10 megawatt.


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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

Sounds like M1A


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Urban....AR 15 and hi cap 9mm and 1911.
Rural...M1A, bolt 300 WM, and 1911
Underground 12 gauge and 1911


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Blackcat said:


> What sort of spin off thread did you have in mind Kauboy ? A build thread or a discussion of the pros and cons or something completely different ?


A build thread for a blackpowder flintlock.
Sounds interesting to me, and would no doubt come in handy if modern manufacturing of bullets ever vanishes.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

You know it seems like almost everyone has overlooked a key point. Some SHTF events - like an earth quake or terrorist attack - do not give a person a whole lot of warning. While all of your firearms do have their uses, consider what you have on you - or within arms reach of you - right now. Remember many of these events are come as you are and what you have with you is what you have to work with until you can find or acquire something better


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> You know it seems like almost everyone has overlooked a key point. Some SHTF events - like an earth quake or terrorist attack - do not give a person a whole lot of warning. While all of your firearms do have their uses, consider what you have on you - or within arms reach of you - right now. Remember many of these events are come as you are and what you have with you is what you have to work with until you can find or acquire something better


Always carry. Never tell. We haven't overlooked it.


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## Blackcat (Nov 12, 2012)

M1a or M1 Garand are at the top of my list. The M1 Garand in .30-06 is pretty much my dream gun atm but they are far too expensive in Canada now and the price just keeps climbing. Last I checked was some time ago and if I recall... A well used one in less than ideal shape is around 1000-1500 a cleaned, tuned, higher end rifle is 2000 or more. I k ew a guy that could get them pristine for 300-500 but that fell through.

I agree use whatever is on hand at the time.
If you have time however to choose...

Mostly the original question was for hypotheticals... Not really what existing firearm, but if you had the ability to pick and choose features to make your idea of a perfect gun or close too it. Within the realm of reality mind you 

Thing is for me I have a few favourite calibers. .30-06 being one.
I like the feel of some rifles while others are just not right. For example the SKS handles well and feels good but is a tad short in the buttstock and heavy for the size.
My marlin guide gun feels good... The laminate stock has a quality feel that other wood laminates dont seem to have (still havent figured that out) the weight balance and lop are near perfect for me.
I do favour wood or laminate over synthetics.
Bolt action has its place for accuracy but for common use a semi auto is more efficient imo.

If they made AR types in .30-06 and wood or laminate stocks that have a feel like old milsurp rifles. That would be perfect lol.
Really though the M1 meets my criteria almost perfectly despite being a little on the heavy side, but then so am I  so it all balances out hehe.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Blackcat said:


> M1a or M1 Garand are at the top of my list. The M1 Garand in .30-06 is pretty much my dream gun atm but they are far too expensive in Canada now and the price just keeps climbing. Last I checked was some time ago and if I recall... A well used one in less than ideal shape is around 1000-1500 a cleaned, tuned, higher end rifle is 2000 or more. I k ew a guy that could get them pristine for 300-500 but that fell through.
> 
> I agree use whatever is on hand at the time.
> If you have time however to choose...
> ...


That is about the going rate here in the States also. $1000 to $1500 for top condition. Original configurations, matching numbers higher. Collector m-1 garands matching numbers can be 4 to 6 thousand.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Can I shoot the Plasma rifle while riding the Dragon?


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## Blackcat (Nov 12, 2012)

Its not really a horrible price tag considering what I put into some guns but for a general purpose gun at that price I start to get a little afraid of getting it scratched and dirty lol.

And yes Retired guarg you may. Just dont feed the dragon.


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## Viper (Jun 4, 2015)

paraquack said:


> Phased Plasma Rifle but in 10 megawatt.


"Hey, just what you see pal".


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> a single shot break open 12 gauge shotgun.


https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/zombieland-atlanta.jpg?w=446&h=299&crop=1


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

FS2000. But for value and all that sks ftw.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

sideKahr said:


> Always carry. Never tell. We haven't overlooked it.


I never leave my home unarmed.

Be it a Smith , Sig, Colt or a Glock or a combination they are always there.

Even when in the yard, I have one on me.

The jeeps has sufficient supplies long gun and ammo to get home under most conditions.

For SHTF, I have plenty of like new M1 Garands in my inventory with sufficient ammo.

Every one gages MW=0, TE=1 or better, some only test fired since rebuild.

I carried one when in the service, have complete faith in them.

Yes I have AR's AK's SKS's and others, I know that when some turd is hiding behind a tree, his ass is in for a big surprise when that APM2 visits him.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

I would have to say Benelli Supernova 12 gauge and Glock 17. The Benelli can handle those 3 1/2 inch Magnum turkey loads, Vital Shock "Blast the target to smithereens" type loads, though for practice I much prefer low velocity Federals. The AK & Tavor are very nice, but if I have to pick one gun... a 3 1/2 inch Magnum shotgun load will do most jobs.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

In shtf you'll need a firearm for defense and or to put food on the table. What the "perfect" gun is depends a lot on your situation. Are you flying solo or are you with a group or better yet your family? Are you bugging out or hunkering down in your home or BOL? If your bugging out are you in a vehicle or on foot? What kind of terrain are you facing? If I could only have one I believe that a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun would do the best in filling both of those roles, they are a jack of all trades a master of none. Given my particular situation I would probably roll with a .40 handgun and an AR-15 but both of those could be changed out easily.

This thread does bring up an interesting thought I've had recently about bugging out on foot. I wonder if one could drop a handgun from their kit replace it with a lightweight take down .22 such as the AR-7-Ruger 10-22 Takedown-Marlin Papoose while using an Ar/Ak type carbine for defense? That would give the user a weapon for defense and one to take game.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

The perfect SHTF gun is the one you have when SHTF. 
Plan accordingly


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## av8or2k (May 30, 2015)

I think the answer depends on your situation, however I would say if you had one of the following, you'd be okay.

12 gauge shotgun:
by far the most versatile: with vast variety of shot and slugs, this gun can truly do it all. From small game, relatively long range defense/accuracy, and its down right nasty effective CQB.
It's drawbacks are few, but: effective long range is 250-300yds perhaps. Ammo is heavy and cumbersome. Imagine trying to haul 1000 rds, and how is it divided amongst the different types of shot and slugs. Low number of rounds prior to reload and unless you're shooting a mag fed 12, your reloads are long.

.22 semi auto rifle
22 is ammo is extremely light and small in size so carrying 1000rds can be done easily. This is by far the cheapest round at .08-.11 cents/rd. Although is some areas of the country .22 flies off the shelf at break neck speed, in other areas its readily available. You always find it on-line though. Combining its cheapness and availability, there's little reason to not have thousands of rounds prepared.
The round is accurate and carries enough energy within 100yds to take down prey small and medium size humanly. In a SHTF situation, it can take down larger prey w/its combo of power and rds on target, w/access to 25 and 50 rd mags. Not exactly humane but still effective. I have a threaded takedown 10/22, which I feel exemplifies the best all around affordable, 22. With a suppressor, you can add stealthy to the list.

It's drawback of course is the lack of stopping power in self defense situations. Animals don't wear body armor, but humans do. The effective accuracy scale just shrunk to the 8" circle real quick.

.223/5.56 Ar-15
This is my personal preference for SHTF. The round balances weight&relative size, with energy and versatility. It's happily in the upper middle of all the categories, the proverbial jack of all trades, but ace of none. For example, you can carry 1k rounds, its not going to be light, but it is compact. And for most reading this, it is the round of the standing military.

I also like that this round is effective in almost all situations. Medium and long Defense, CQB and food procurement... No problem. The .22(self defense in general) and shotgun(long range defense) leave a lot on the table in certain situations.

Gun variations are vast and pretty much infinite. The AR15 can be arranged in several different configurations, it can adapt to almost any situation. Want to change uppers to a different caliber? Want to add/change foregrips, stock, scope, light, laser, 45* iron sights, bipod, sling? All easily done with picatinny rail. Mags are cheap, about $15 a piece PMags and vary in capacity, including 100 drums. 30 rds is standard, and 40 is pretty much the limit for me while maintaining mobility.

IHMO, and to finally answer the OP's ?, its my Adams Arms Mid length piston driven AR-15 with P223 3x9 scope, 45* iron sights, sling, collapsible stock, light and laser combo and 1500 rds stuffed into my GTH bag.


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## av8or2k (May 30, 2015)

toolmanky said:


> In shtf you'll need a firearm for defense and or to put food on the table. What the "perfect" gun is depends a lot on your situation. Are you flying solo or are you with a group or better yet your family? Are you bugging out or hunkering down in your home or BOL? If your bugging out are you in a vehicle or on foot? What kind of terrain are you facing? If I could only have one I believe that a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun would do the best in filling both of those roles, they are a jack of all trades a master of none. Given my particular situation I would probably roll with a .40 handgun and an AR-15 but both of those could be changed out easily.
> 
> This thread does bring up an interesting thought I've had recently about bugging out on foot. I wonder if one could drop a handgun from their kit replace it with a lightweight take down .22 such as the AR-7-Ruger 10-22 Takedown-Marlin Papoose while using an Ar/Ak type carbine for defense? That would give the user a weapon for defense and one to take game.


I have both the AR7 and Ruger Threaded Takedown 10/22. I keep the AR7 in the trunk of my car and the 10/22 in my GTH bag.
AR7 is great. Accurate, and extremely light weight and compact. I wouldn't want to have only this long term
The 10/22 is also great. It's not as compact as the AR7, but its quality, versatility and reliability makes it much more appealing for long term use.

The one area the both lack with regard to a pistol, is mobility. When assemblied, its a rifle and not very quick to target in CQB. I'd keep the side arm and AR as my SHTF kit.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

It would be a cross between the M4 and AK47. fire the 5.56 with a 77 grain. It would be Gas piston


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## beekwimvan (Jul 28, 2015)

I want one but we are not allowed by oure dutch goverment


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Saving up my pennies for this *"Zorg ZF-1 Pod Weapon"*
View attachment 12939
View attachment 12940

"It's light. Handle's adjustable for easy carrying, good for righties and lefties. Breaks down into four parts, undetectable by x-ray, ideal for quick, discreet interventions. A word on firepower. Titanium recharger, three thousand round clip with bursts of three to three hundred, and with the Replay button - another Zorg invention - it's even easier." Rocket launcher, poison arrow launcher, net launcher, flamethrower, net launcher,and freeze ray. Just don't push the little red button.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

But wouldn't it be something if someone invented a laser or directed energy weapon you could carry? I mean gun powder has been the go to weapon for 1,000 years.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I would be OK with an SKS or a riot gun, I am easy to please.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

A Juxtapose insight, the perfect SHTF gun is the one that You didn't need to use to effect your (and the ones you love) extraction from the SHTF Scenario. JMHO.


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## jimrose (Sep 15, 2015)

I am good with the guns I currently have. But another dillion rl550b would be nice. And I need another single stage press also. That way I can always have the rounds ready no matter what.


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## Farva (Aug 26, 2015)

I'll take the OP's question at face value, one gun. That's it. I don't think it's possible or a good idea, but yayyyy me, I have my answer to this commonly asked prep forum question. 

Like others have said, It depends on you and your situation. Here's meeeee. 

I rarely hunt anymore. Don't know how that happened, kid and job probably, and liking watching football and drinking beer on my day or so off more than beating the bush freezing my ass off. I also think that if your, and my, survival plan requires hunting and fishing in any part of it to stay alive, I, and you, are going to starve to death.
Don't get me wrong, if you and I can find time to hunt between digging/planting taters and cutting wood and feeding things, awesome. It should not be a priority. If it is, we made a big mistake.

In my AO, burbs, there isn't a 50 yard shot anywhere. Really. So "Reaching out and touching someone" is a fantasy. A long gun is nice, but not absolutely required. Same with a shotgun. Besides that, humping a weapon while you are trying to actually live is a challenge, especially if you don't have a squad covering your ass with a 60 while you dig holes. And, really, seriously, honestly, pinkie swear, You got one try at that 350-600 yard target, you really think your going to hit it straight up cold first shot, or are you just giving away your position? I don't have to be a genius to figure out that most folk saying this stuff don't have the time in training/practice, or the money, to honestly say yes. Return fire on a sniper? If he's smart he moved when he missed. If he's good, your problems are over. If it's the former, go out tonight and tag his ass. Besides, the "panties in a bunch crowd" might get their panties in a bunch if you're overtly carrying something evil and black. The situation is easily diffused if it doesn't happen.

Getting to the point slowly. Any encounter I have in or near my pad is going to be within 20 yards. I need a weapon that can be used effectively within that space and inside my house if need be.
Here it comes, drum roll please..... I am using a Gen 2 G22.

I am bugging in in my house. If I feel the situation is permanent/untenable, I'll go to the family farm/s. If I was told to leave right now, one gun only, that's what is coming with me. Not good, but better than most.

Remember, this was a one gun thing.

I am an AR-Glock-Deer Rifle-Shotgun-.22, guy in reality. AR and Glocks have backups also.

I am also surprised no one ever mentions TC Contender pistols or Savage M24's. I love those.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

If I were to single a gun out, it would more than likely be a cache gun. One that gets treated for long term storage and stashed away. It would be like the last Mohican, when all the other guns are gone as in taken, stolen or lost, there would still be one left. Given those circumstances it may be the perfect gun.

If you were to cache one gun, possibly never to be touched or see again. What would that gun be? I lean towards a break open single shot of some type. They are inexpensive and robust.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Seneca said:


> If I were to single a gun out, it would more than likely be a cache gun. One that gets treated for long term storage and stashed away. It would be like the last Mohican, when all the other guns are gone as in taken, stolen or lost, there would still be one left. Given those circumstances it may be the perfect gun.
> 
> If you were to cache one gun, possibly never to be touched or see again. What would that gun be? I lean towards a break open single shot of some type. They are inexpensive and robust.


One of my Russian SKS's, I consider them expendable, new unfired, Alamo guns. 
Would go in a PVC tube with all the extra space filled with ammo, strippers, oil and web carrier.
This would not be my first choice for a SHTF gun, just as a cache piece as you stated.
I consider them a tier level three piece, tier four would be the bolt guns such as the 30a3 Springfield's, no 4 Enfield's and 98 Mauser's.
Level fours are for rear echelon people such as women doing domestics,
to give them something to defend themselves with, not for a front line fight if it came to that.


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## DARK1 (Oct 4, 2014)

Seneca said:


> If I were to single a gun out, it would more than likely be a cache gun. One that gets treated for long term storage and stashed away. It would be like the last Mohican, when all the other guns are gone as in taken, stolen or lost, there would still be one left. Given those circumstances it may be the perfect gun.
> 
> If you were to cache one gun, possibly never to be touched or see again. What would that gun be? I lean towards a break open single shot of some type. They are inexpensive and robust.


 Seriously... a single shot, I would have peged you to be better prepped. Now your talking SHTF, you are the line of defense to save your loved ones and your own bacon, God forbid. I think it may by wise to rethink your options incase the unthinkable were to transpire. I just can't see having anything but a semi-auto with standard capacity mags, 30 rounders, in the very popular AR platform. Now not because that would be my choice, because it's not, but for parts commonality, access to ammo and ability for the task at hand, this weapon could serve you well and the price has NEVER been lower. In 82 a AR-15 would cost you 1200.00 give or take, and today you can pick one up @ under 600. No disrespect meant in anyway, I would just hate to think of you loading a single shot and and 5 Zombies bearing down on you and yours. Give yourself the best odds that you can. In the end if you are still confident in your choice by all means exercise it, this is still America !


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