# 8 Year Old Pinto Beans-Semi-Fail...



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

A few months ago I broke into a Mylar Bag filled with Pinto Beans stored in 2011. Took out 1.5 cups of beans, soaked overnight in salt water added onions peppers and sausage and seasonings and simmered on stove for about 3 hours. 

The final product was tasty but the 8 year old Pinto's were still semi-hard.
Stored the rest in the freezer until yesterday.

So, I put another cup and a half in a salt water bath in the refrigerator for 10 days. Rinsed and added the beans to a slow cooker with chicken broth and seasonings and cooked for 10 hours. Tasted the beans after 10 hours and the taste was good but the damn beans were still hard.

Added rice at about 12 hours and let them cook through the nite in the crock pot. Tried a small bowl this am. Taste was better than last nite, rice was broken down and very tasty but the Pinto's were still semi hard! 

Never had this happen!!!!!! Any suggestions or did I just get a bad batch? Was it the freezer? Help.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Run them through a pressure cooker. 

Add salt to the cooker water.

If a complete fail, grind and add to flour to make bread.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

SOCOM42 said:


> Run them through a pressure cooker.
> 
> Add salt to the cooker water.
> 
> If a complete fail, grind and add to flour to make bread.


I think your right on with the Pressure Cooker! That's what I may need to do with this batch of beans.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I would be interested as to why they are so hard. Pinto beans are part of my long term storage.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

I don't take any chances with beans. I both soak them overnight and simmer them for 30 minutes before my final cooking method, which is usually baking (Boston Baked Beans).


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

I wonder if anyone has tried this with rice, if a decade storage hardens them too.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm not up to 20 years on rice but we have a couple of bags from 2006 and 2007. We used some 2006 rice last year and it was fine. Sadly, we mostly use Minute rice instead of busting into our stores for our rice needs. 

Back to the Pintos, I'm thinking this is just a unique batch since we've never had this issue.

So I transferred the Beans/Rice to a small stock pot and put them on the stove top at a medium simmer. Will check on the beans periodiclly until lunch time and hopefully will have a bowl of soft beans and rice.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

MountainGirl said:


> I wonder if anyone has tried this with rice, if a decade storage hardens them too.


NO it does not affect rice, have used 20+ years of stored rice with no problem.

We go through 20 pounds of rice a month here.

A primary part of our diet.

If you happen to have the problem which I doubt, grind it into flour.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Another process although time consuming is using sodium hydroxide (lye) to break down the structure.

It does have to be done right, look at the process for lutefisk, follow it for the beans for the breakdown.

You do not have to soak as long, testing will come up with the right timing, to long and you end up with jello.

The jello end product may be good for sick or others unable to eat solids,

mixed with overcooked rice will give them good nutrition.

Essentially the stuff is pre-digested and can be processed right through the intestines .

My grandparents use to do this with their fish 70-90 years ago.

If up to it, you can reduce some beans and use a

reagent( phenolphthalein) to test for any remain sodium, or a PH paper.

@Mad Trapper, can tell you more as a expert chemist, I am a know nothing.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

2 more hours in a stock pot at a medium to low simmer and I served up a bowl to me and Mrs S for lunch. The "broth" was gravy like and perfectly seasoned. The Ham and Onions were soft and tasty BUT the inner beans were still a bit. Tasty as hell but still firm and not like you'd expect it.

Let this be a lesson, in a grid down situation it takes LOTS of fuel to cook dry old stored beans like most of us are used to. Edible will be the key but don't think that 30 minutes of cooking will soften some old hard beans if the batch has a tendency for hardness.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

It's not uncommon for older beans to fail to fully soften with cooking. It seems to be inconsistent. I've had this happen with beans stored for a year or two, but I've also had beans of indeterminate age (i.e., had been in my pantry so long I forgot they were there) turn out just fine. It may be related to the original quality of the beans. It's an actual crap shoot. I agree that pressure cooking may work.

@Slippy Were the bags vacuum sealed and had you used oxygen absorbers?


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Slippy said:


> 2 more hours in a stock pot at a medium to low simmer and I served up a bowl to me and Mrs S for lunch. The "broth" was gravy like and perfectly seasoned. The Ham and Onions were soft and tasty BUT the inner beans were still a bit. Tasty as hell but still firm and not like you'd expect it.
> 
> Let this be a lesson, in a grid down situation it takes LOTS of fuel to cook dry old stored beans like most of us are used to. Edible will be the key but don't think that 30 minutes of cooking will soften some old hard beans if the batch has a tendency for hardness.


BUT, . . . hard beans, . . . beats the heck out of NO beans, . . .

My stored food may not be the coup de gras as far as menu selection is concerned, . . . but it will be something to eat.

Interlopers can bring their own possum if they like.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

paulag1955 said:


> It's not uncommon for older beans to fail to fully soften with cooking. It seems to be inconsistent. I've had this happen with beans stored for a year or two, but I've also had beans of indeterminate age (i.e., had been in my pantry so long I forgot they were there) turn out just fine. It may be related to the original quality of the beans. It's an actual crap shoot. I agree that pressure cooking may work.
> 
> @Slippy Were the bags vacuum sealed and had you used oxygen absorbers?


Paula,

Bags were mylar with O2 Absorbers an were tightly sealed, I did not vacuum pack them, just allowed the O2 Absorbers to do their thing. The main reason I posted was that this particular batch was uncommonly "firm" after everything I did and was perplexed.

No harm no foul, they taste great and I have decided to add more easy cooking lentils to my stores! :tango_face_smile:


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Slippy said:


> Paula,
> 
> Bags were mylar with O2 Absorbers an were tightly sealed, I did not vacuum pack them, just allowed the O2 Absorbers to do their thing. The main reason I posted was that this particular batch was uncommonly "firm" after everything I did and was perplexed.
> 
> No harm no foul, they taste great and I have decided to add more easy cooking lentils to my stores! :tango_face_smile:


It's frustrating, I know, especially after you've invested 10 hours in making baked beans. I've never found an explanation for why this happens. But, as you say, the taste is find and the protein stays intact virtually forever.


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Far as I know beans can get so hard because they were overdried before being stored. It happens with people that plant small patches and sun-dry their beans before storage. It can also happen with popcorn. They won't pop, or make very hard popcorn. Also, it depends on the variety of beans. Comercial seeds should produce beans that are soft within 40min of cooking, but many people keep their own seeds and have very hard beans that require a way longer cooking. 

Leave them to soak in pure water, with no salt or seasoning overnight. Change the water in the morning and cook in the pressure cooker. Add spices after it is soft (this is the average way of preparing any beans in my country). Pressure cooker will greatly help you. 
The salt in the water makes it more difficult for the water enter the beans and so they take longer to cook.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Slippy said:


> A few months ago I broke into a Mylar Bag filled with Pinto Beans stored in 2011. Took out 1.5 cups of beans, soaked overnight in salt water added onions peppers and sausage and seasonings and simmered on stove for about 3 hours.
> 
> The final product was tasty but the 8 year old Pinto's were still semi-hard.
> Stored the rest in the freezer until yesterday.
> ...


Good post for things to find out now while it's not a problem, so you can decide how you'll handle it for later. Just to be sure it is just a bad batch, you may need to open & try another container. If those are good & cook as normal, then just use the bad batch for flour, but you'll also know if it is a problem with your supplies cause if a second bucket is like the first, then it's highly possible the rest is the same. Do you really want to cook all those beans for 3 days to be edible???

Maybe an idea to rotate your supplies regularly or IOW, start eating more from your storage and any grocery trips and/or garden harvests are for replacements, so you'll always have 'fresh' supplies.

Another option...&#8230;.pressure can a load of those hard beans, then do a taste test of one jar. Did that help the texture??? Canning those beans may be the better option. 1) they are preserved indefinitely 2)they are already cooked & only needed heated 3) if you only store canned beans, and 1 jar fails, you've only lost one jar instead of a whole bucketful.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

JustAnotherNut said:


> Maybe an idea to rotate your supplies regularly or IOW, start eating more from your storage and any grocery trips and/or garden harvests are for replacements, so you'll always have 'fresh' supplies.
> 
> Another option...&#8230;.pressure can a load of those hard beans, then do a taste test of one jar. Did that help the texture??? Canning those beans may be the better option. 1) they are preserved indefinitely 2)they are already cooked & only needed heated 3) if you only store canned beans, and 1 jar fails, you've only lost one jar instead of a whole bucketful.


These are both great suggestions.


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## Marica (May 5, 2019)

If someone said this already I missed it. Soak beans in distilled water. That's all there is to it. Distilled water is 100% H2O. So in the process of diffusion, only water goes into your beans, no additional stuff that's in city, bottled, or well water. I swear by it.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Marica said:


> If someone said this already I missed it. Soak beans in distilled water. That's all there is to it. Distilled water is 100% H2O. So in the process of diffusion, only water goes into your beans, no additional stuff that's in city, bottled, or well water. I swear by it.


How feasible would that be, though, after the SHTF?


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## Marica (May 5, 2019)

paulag1955 said:


> How feasible would that be, though, after the SHTF?


Well... . 1) You could store it. 2) You can make it. Think about distilled spirits-- making brandy from wine. You distill it. The interwebs are full of simple ways to do this. 3) Rain & Snow are, as one site says, already distilled, as long as it's not falling down through polluted air. 3) I see there are kits.

And for the win https://www.thoughtco.com/making-distilled-water-609427:

Distill Water From Plants or Mud
While out camping or in serious emergency situations, you can distill water from virtually any source of water. If you understand the basic principle, you likely can imagine many potential setups. Here's an example of a method used to extract water from desert plants. Note that this is a time-consuming process.

Green plants
Plastic wrap
Coffee can or other clean container
Small rocks
Dig a hole in the ground in a sunny location.
Place the coffee can in the center of the bottom of the hole to collect the water.
Pile up damp plants in the hole around the coffee can.
Cover the hole with a piece of plastic wrap. You can secure it using rocks or dirt. Ideally, you want to seal the plastic so no moisture escapes. The greenhouse effect will trap heat inside the plastic, aiding in the evaporation of the water.
Place a pebble in the center of the plastic wrap to create a small depression. As water evaporates, the vapor will condense on the plastic and fall where you created the depression, dripping into the can.
You can add fresh plants to keep the process going. Avoid using poisonous plants containing volatile toxins because they will contaminate your water. Cacti and ferns are good choices, where they are available. Ferns are edible, too.

If you have kids, think how much fun this would be!


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## Marica (May 5, 2019)

ADDED: I see there's also a method for filtering water through several layers or rocks, sand, charcoal, etc. using plastic bottle (2L). The end result is not 100% water but very close.









If you have a very large rain barrel you could probably set up a series of smaller capacity barrels, each with its own layer at the bottom, and stair-step them down a slope to accomplish the same thing for larger quantities.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Marica said:


> Well... . 1) You could store it. 2) You can make it. Think about distilled spirits-- making brandy from wine. You distill it. The interwebs are full of simple ways to do this. 3) Rain & Snow are, as one site says, already distilled, as long as it's not falling down through polluted air. 3) I see there are kits.
> 
> And for the win https://www.thoughtco.com/making-distilled-water-609427:
> 
> ...


I don't have kids and doesn't sound fun to me. LOL It sounds like a lot of trouble for softer beans, when you may already be short on time. Hopefully someone will test some old beans in a pressure cooker and report back.


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## Marica (May 5, 2019)

@Paulag !! So when I read the OP, I wasn't really thinking TEOTWAWKI. I was just thinking softer beans. But your comment got me thinking. That said, when SHTF just where are you going to get enough electricity for a pressure cooker?!? (jk)


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Marica said:


> @Paulag !! So when I read the OP, I wasn't really thinking TEOTWAWKI. I was just thinking softer beans. But your comment got me thinking. That said, when SHTF just where are you going to get enough electricity for a pressure cooker?!? (jk)


I won't. I'll use fire or whatever else it is I'm using to cook with.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Gotta hand it to @Slippy for sticking with it, but I'd thrown out the beans after a couple of hours. In regards to pressure cooking with no elec, I've found that some good for 25 years prep food uses a whole lot of energy(fuel of some kind) to re-constutitute, and takes a fair amount of time. Package directions say 20 minutes of boil, HA HA, double that or more for edible eats.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Marica said:


> @Paulag !! So when I read the OP, I wasn't really thinking TEOTWAWKI. I was just thinking softer beans. But your comment got me thinking. That said, when SHTF just where are you going to get enough electricity for a pressure cooker?!? (jk)


Mine is an "old fashion" (I guess) pressure cooker that sits on an electric heating element (stove) or an open flame (gas stove).
I have a home-made tripod that sits over my campfire in my back yard. The grate is on a pulley, attached to a cantilever and I can raise and lower whatever is cooking depending upon fire height.

I've never tried a pressure cooker on it but feel pretty confident it would work.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Robie said:


> Mine is an "old fashion" (I guess) pressure cooker that sits on an electric heating element (stove) or an open flame (gas stove).
> I have a home-made tripod that sits over my campfire in my back yard. The grate is on a pulley, attached to a cantilever and I can raise and lower whatever is cooking depending upon fire height.
> 
> I've never tried a pressure cooker on it but feel pretty confident it would work.
> ...


I'm sure it would work for pressure cooking. Canning would take a heck of a lot of practice.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

paulag1955 said:


> I won't. I'll use fire or whatever else it is I'm using to cook with.


The Amish in eastern Ohio, . . . can meat on a wood stove with hundreds of dollars worth of the finest pressure cookers you have ever seen in your life. Fuel is whatever they have that will burn. Ever seen cow patties burn, . . . yep, . . . they do.

Any heat source is great for pressure cooking or pressure canning. For EOTWAWKI, . . . you need two of each or more. They use much less fuel to cook with, . . . just gotta be careful what you put in em, . . . cannot be a bubbly, frothy, thing in the cooker, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

dwight55 said:


> The Amish in eastern Ohio, . . . can meat on a wood stove with hundreds of dollars worth of the finest pressure cookers you have ever seen in your life. Fuel is whatever they have that will burn. Ever seen cow patties burn, . . . yep, . . . they do.
> 
> Any heat source is great for pressure cooking or pressure canning. For EOTWAWKI, . . . you need two of each or more. They use much less fuel to cook with, . . . just gotta be careful what you put in em, . . . cannot be a bubbly, frothy, thing in the cooker, . . .
> 
> ...


Yes, but they have experienced mentors within their community. Come TEOTWAKI, we'll be learning it on our own.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

a hefty pinch of baking soda to the water can help as well. It may help with the oxygen in the water, as well as neutralize the gassiness of the beans.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

paulag1955 said:


> Yes, but they have experienced mentors within their community. Come TEOTWAKI, we'll be learning it on our own.


The key to that is to practice ahead, . . . that's what I'm trying to do.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I don't pre-soak my pintos, put them in a pot with water, bring to boil and rinse,bring to boil and etc.2 or 3 times. Not sure if I decrease the vitamins during the rinse but like a clearer juice. Just doesn't taste as muddy to me. Add the onions and salt pork and half a packet of onion soup mixed I'm good to go. I put a drop or two of liquid smoke and a bit of jalapeño juice to kick it up a bit. Maybe should have put this in the recipes forum. 2 or 3 hours I'm done.


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)




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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Is that a "NO" you don't like how I make my beans. I thought all true Texans used some sort of jalapeños in everything.


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## Momma23Littles (Dec 12, 2017)

Yavanna said:


> Leave them to soak in pure water, with no salt or seasoning overnight. Change the water in the morning and cook in the pressure cooker. Add spices after it is soft (this is the average way of preparing any beans in my country).
> The salt in the water makes it more difficult for the water enter the beans and so they take longer to cook.


This! Don't salt your beans or your water until they are cooked to the desired tenderness. The salt makes the beans much tougher. Try again without the salt and see if you have a bad batch of beans or if the salt is the culprit.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Another process although time consuming is using sodium hydroxide (lye) to break down the structure.
> 
> It does have to be done right, look at the process for lutefisk, follow it for the beans for the breakdown.
> 
> ...


Lye will sure help break things down but I'd not want to eat the product without neutralization of the lye, acid will do the same on foods to break it down. If you eat something you want the pH to be neutral +/- a pH unit, except maybe pickled foods.

Ever make soap?

I think @SOCOM42 had it right with a pressure cooker.

IMHO beans just need to soak and cook.

I had some saved 6 years I grew (scarlet runner), just sitting in a jar, still viable (90% germination). My GF thought they looked "dusty" (open cap Mason jar), and washed them! WTF!!! I had sprouts and lost my seed........


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

E. N. Woodcock, _Fifty Years a Hunter and Trapper_

Say, boys, the question of pork and beans leads me to ask how
many of you who have a fireplace in your camp have a bean hole?
Now, Bill and I had one in our camp, and I tell you we thought it
fine and we did it in this way. We dug a hole in one corner of
the fireplace about two and a half feet deep and about eighteen
inches in diameter, using the regular old style of bake kettle. This
is merely an iron pot, with a close fitting flange lid so as to seclude
all dust and ashes, and we used it in this way. We would first
rake a good lot of live coals from the fireplace into the bean hole,
having the beans already in the kettle. Then we would put the
kettle down in the hole and rake the hole full of live embers, being
careful to cover the hole over with plenty of ashes.
We prepared the beans about in this fashion: After washing
we soaked them for about twelve hours. The water was drained
off and the beans were then put into the kettle with the necessary
trimmings, which consisted of a good chunk of pork put in the
center of the beans, and two or three smaller pieces laid on top, a
pinch of salt providing that the pork was not sufticiently salty.
A spoonful of brown sugar or rather a little baking molasses and
a little pepper. Now this kettle was allowed to remain three or
four days in the hole without disturbing farther than to cover
over occasionally with hot embers. You ask if beans are good
baked this way-we guess yes. We have heard a great deal about
the famous Boston baked beans, but we wish to say that they are
not in it compared to beans baked in a bean hole.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Great story Trapper, thanks!

Got this old cast iron pot from Mrs Slippy's Dads barn, we call him Pop, he practically threw it in my truck and told me to make it nice again. I wish I had taken a picture of the pot before I started to clean it up, it was horrible. But if I could find a lid, it would make a helluva Bean Pot!











Mad Trapper said:


> E. N. Woodcock, _Fifty Years a Hunter and Trapper_
> 
> Say, boys, the question of pork and beans leads me to ask how
> many of you who have a fireplace in your camp have a bean hole?
> ...


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## vf750rider (Sep 23, 2017)

After all this bean tasting and testing ... how many nights has Mrs. Slippy made you (and your gas) test out the bug out shelter? :vs_bananasplit:


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Great story Trapper, thanks!
> 
> Got this old cast iron pot from Mrs Slippy's Dads barn, we call him Pop, he practically threw it in my truck and told me to make it nice again. I wish I had taken a picture of the pot before I started to clean it up, it was horrible. But if I could find a lid, it would make a helluva Bean Pot!
> 
> View attachment 102995


If you happen to have a self-cleaning oven, I'd put that pot in on that setting and see how pretty it turns out. Like brand spanking new.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Slippy said:


> Great story Trapper, thanks!
> 
> Got this old cast iron pot from Mrs Slippy's Dads barn, we call him Pop, he practically threw it in my truck and told me to make it nice again. I wish I had taken a picture of the pot before I started to clean it up, it was horrible. But if I could find a lid, it would make a helluva Bean Pot!


I had a wonderful stoneware bean pot that belonged to my grandmother, but I never could find a lid to fit it.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

After all this bean tasting and testing ... how many nights has Mrs. Slippy made you (and your gas) test out the bug out shelter?

That's funny stuff, I ask the wife after she leaves the bathroom if she used the spray! I'm no damn good and I know it.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

1skrewsloose said:


> After all this bean tasting and testing ... how many nights has Mrs. Slippy made you (and your gas) test out the bug out shelter?
> 
> That's funny stuff, I ask the wife after she leaves the bathroom if she used the spray! I'm no damn good and I know it.


I keep a dish detergent bottle with diluted pine-sol near the toilet, works great on smells


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Slippy said:


> A few months ago I broke into a Mylar Bag filled with Pinto Beans stored in 2011. Took out 1.5 cups of beans, soaked overnight in salt water added onions peppers and sausage and seasonings and simmered on stove for about 3 hours.
> 
> The final product was tasty but the 8 year old Pinto's were still semi-hard.
> Stored the rest in the freezer until yesterday.
> ...


Found this for ya...&#8230; not just making refries, but a few tidbits of cooking the beans.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

"Yain't makin' refried beans...you're makin' a bean smoothie."

I love this guy and my mouth is watering just thinking about his beans.


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