# Man arrested and charged for having five 30 round AR-15 Magazines in NY State



## shadownmss (Nov 13, 2012)

A town of LeRay man was accused Sunday of possessing high-capacity magazines for an assault rifle. Jefferson County Sheriff's deputies say 32 year old Nathan Haddad allegedly had five 30-round magazines for an AR-15 rifle in his possession. Police say the magazines were found during a vehicle check on Steinhilber Road in the town of LeRay. Haddad was charged with five counts of third degree criminal possession of a weapon and arraigned in Watertown town court.

Check out the links below, apparently a good man will now be a criminal for merely possessing the hi-cap mags.

LeRay Man Faces Weapons Possessions Charges | WWNY TV 7 - News, Weather and Sports for | Local News

This the same Fort Drum veteran honored at dinner with VIPs for taking care of a wounded warrior:

Fort Drum - The Mountaineer Online


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Demand a trial by jury, watch it be hung.

He will never get the mags, though.

By the way, they were found during a vehicle check?


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

This is on several internet site but I can't find it on the main news. I am hoping at least fox news carries it.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm guessing the NRA's legal defense fund is salivating at getting this one to the supremes. God Help Us 
the last trip to the Supremes on Guns was fine, but the last one on health care sucked wind.


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## shadownmss (Nov 13, 2012)

Good point on the vehicle check.....I am not sure what the deal was with that.

I guess this means never volunteer to let LEO search your car.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

A vehicle check! Something tells me there is more to this story? So much for LEO's and their oath to up hold the Constitution. Time to find out where these LEO's live along with all members of local government that support un Constitutional laws and have it posted for all to see! Looks like the "wars" are about to begin.


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## insatiable ONE (Nov 9, 2012)

Well this is New York?


Let's see how this shit storm fans out.


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## Old Man (Dec 10, 2012)

Well in mississippi the State partol set up traffic stop all the time here. They start out checking Driver license and proof of insurance. And most of the time here they now will have the dog walk around the car and if the dog gives them that look or action to search your car. My dog give me that look everyday. The other thing is how policemen were arrested the day NY passed the law sense they were illegal. Police state is comming.


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## kyletx1911a1 (Jul 16, 2012)

i love texas


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

This was bound to happen.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

THere is something fishy to this story because according to the new laws, people were supposed to be given 30 days to sell the magazines out of state or turn them in to law enforcement.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

I misspoke apparently the laws went into effect immediately upon signing them and everyone with a semi auto rifle magazine that holds more than 5 rounds is a criminal. The deputy that enforced this is an asshole and should have his ass kicked. 
Do they not swear in New York law enforcement? Anyone in New York please give your local law enforcement a brochure to Oath Keepers. 


Here is the new NY gun laws:


PURCHASE
No permit is required for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun (except in New York City). A license to carry or posses a pistol or revolver is required to purchase a handgun. (See HANDGUNS- POSSESSION and CARRY) Elsewhere than the City of New York, a person licensed to carry or possess a pistol or revolver may apply at any time to the licensing officer in the county of their residence for amendment of his or her license to include one or more such handguns or to remove a handgun held under the license. 

No person, firm or corporation engaged in the retail business of selling rifles, shotguns or handguns, shall sell, deliver or transfer any such gun to another person unless the transferee is provided with a gun locking device and a label on safe storage.
Any business selling firearms must post a sign where the firearms are displayed or sold stating in bold print: “The use of a locking device or safety lock is only one aspect of responsible firearm storage. For increased safety firearms should be stored unloaded and locked in a location that is both separate from their ammunition and inaccessible to children and any other unauthorized person.”
Any manufacturer that ships, transports or delivers a handgun to any person in this state shall include in the container a separate sealed container that encloses: a shell casing of a bullet or projectile discharged from such handgun, and any additional information that identifies such handgun. A gunsmith or dealer in firearms licensed in this state shall, within ten days of delivering to any person a handgun received by such gunsmith or dealer, forward to the division of state police, along with the original transaction report, the sealed container enclosing the shell casing from such handgun received from the manufacturer. See New York General Business Law Section 396.ff, referred to as CoBIS, Combined Ballistic Identification System.
Upon receipt of the sealed container, the division of state police shall cause to be entered in an automated electronic data-bank pertinent data and other ballistic information relevant to identification of the shell casing and to the handgun from which it was discharged. 
All firearm exhibitors must conduct a national instant criminal background check prior to all firearm sales or transfers, including sales or transfers of rifles or shotguns at a gun show.
It is lawful for NY residents to purchase or obtain rifles or shotguns in a contiguous state and to receive and transport said rifle and shotguns into the state, provided the person is otherwise eligible to possess a rifle or shotgun under NY law.

POSSESSION—RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS
There is no state license requirement for the possession of a rifle or shotgun, so long as the rifle has barrel(s) at least 16 inches in length and the shotgun has barrel(s) at least 18 inches in length. 

"Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length, or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise is such weapon is altered modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches or an assault weapon. For the purposes of this subdivision, the length of a barrel of a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breach, or breachlock when closed, and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the overall length of a weapon made from a shogun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique firearm.

It is unlawful for any person convicted of a felony, other serious offense (as defined in NYS Penal Law Section 265.17 and further as a will violation of an order of protection), or who been certified as not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun (mentally incompetent) to possess a firearm.

Generally, it is unlawful for anyone under the age of to possess any firearm; however, a rifle or shotgun may be possessed by a person under sixteen years of age but not under age 12, who is engaged in target shooting on a range supervised by a military officer, certified instructor, or a parent, guardian or a person over the age of eighteen designated in writing by such parent or guardian provided the adult has a hunter safety certificate. See New York Penal Law Section 265.00 "Exemptions" which exempts classes of idividuals from prosecution under the statutes, which regulates criminal possession of weapons. Subdivision 7-e allows a person under the age of twenty one but at least fourteen years of age to possess and use a pistol or revolver under specific enumerated conditions.

It is unlawful to possess 20 or more firearms as defined under NY law outside one’s home or business. 

POSSESSION—HANDGUNS
A license is needed to possess a handgun. Application is made to the licensing officer of the city or county where the applicant resides, is principally employed, or where his principal place of business as a merchant or storekeeper is located. An alien may obtain a pistol license if he or she meets these requirements. READ ALL

The determination whether to grant the license is completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state specifically and concisely in writing the reasons for a denial. A denial can only be overturned in court if the denial is shown to be arbitrary and capricious. 

Westchester County may require the applicant to successfully complete a firearms safety course and test in addition to meeting the other requirements. Other counties may also require a safety course for license issuance.

A license may be granted to an applicant who is of good moral character, who is over 21 years of age, who has not been convicted of a serious offense, who states if and when he has ever been treated for mental illness, who is not subject to a protective court order and to whom no good cause exists for the denial of the license. The age requirement shall not apply to persons honorably discharged from the military.

Persons between age 18 and 21 may possess a handgun at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms. A person between the ages of 18 and 21 may also possess a handgun at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the NRA and while under immediate supervision of a person designated in NY Penal Law Section 265.20 (7)).

An investigation will be conducted regarding all statements required in the application. This includes taking the fingerprints and physical descriptive data of the applicant. One copy of the fingerprints will be forwarded to the FBI for a search of the applicant’s criminal records. The failure or refusal of the FBI to make the fingerprint check shall not constitute the sole basis for refusal to issue a permit.

The licensing officer may, in his discretion, add restrictions to the license, limiting the places where the handgun may be kept or carried. No demonstration of need to possess is required to obtain an “on premises only,” license valid for one’s home or place of business.

An “on premises only” license authorizes the possession of a handgun only at the location written on the license. It does not authorize the holder to take such handgun to any other place. (It should be noted further that an “on premises only” license technically does not authorize the holder even to transport the handgun from its place of purchase to the location stated on the license.)

Applications for licenses must be acted upon within 6 months after presentment. If there is a delay, there must be written notice to the applicant stating the reasons. Such delay may be excused for good cause only.

If issued, a license is valid until revoked, except in New York City. A license fee is fixed by the board of supervisors in each county. The Division of Criminal Justice Services sets the fingerprinting fee. A fee is charged fee for each amendment to the license. In New York City and Nassau County, the City Council and Board of Supervisors, respectively, set the license fees without regard to the state law limitation. 

Each handgun possessed must be listed on the license by make, model, caliber and serial number. The only exception is possession of a properly licensed handgun by another licensee or license applicant at a target range. 

The name and address submitted by an applicant to obtain the license becomes a matter of public record.

A licensee who moves his residence to another licensing jurisdiction within the state shall provide notification of the change in writing within ten days after such change occurs, and a record of such change shall be inscribed by such licensee on the reverse side of his license. Failure to notify of the change of residence may result in an inability to obtain amendments, and possible revocation of the license.


CARRY
A license to possess a handgun serves also as a license to carry unless restricted. A license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, not otherwise limited as to place or time of possession, shall be effective throughout the state, except that the license shall not be valid within the city of New York unless the police commissioner of that city issues a special permit granting validity. READ ALL

An applicant for a license to carry outside the home must be required to show, in addition to the requirement for possession that “proper cause” exists for the issuance of a carry license. 

The license can be amended to include one or more additional or different handguns. The licensee is required to carry the license on his person at all times when carrying a handgun.

A loaded handgun may be carried in a vehicle by a properly licensed individual. Loaded means a firearm with ammunition loaded in magazine or chamber or any firearm which is possessed by one who at the same time possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such a firearm.

Possession of any loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle is illegal.

NON-RESIDENTS
It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license. READ ALL

A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel if the person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

A member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a locked carrying case and the ammunition is carried in a separate locked container.

Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition or IHMSA sanctioned match, within 48 hours of the competition, if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked opaque container. This provision does not apply in NY cities not wholly contained within a single county or to people with felony convictions.

Possession of firearms by a person who is a nonresident of this state is lawful while attending or traveling to or from an organized convention or exhibition approved by the NRA, and in which the nonresident is a registered participant within forty-eight hours of such event, provided that the nonresident has not been previously convicted of a felony and further provided that the firearms are transported unloaded in a locked opaque container together with a copy of the convention or exhibition program, convention or exhibition schedule or convention or exhibition registration card. This provision does not apply in NY cities not wholly contained within a single county.

A non-immigrant alien may possess a rifle or shotgun for use while hunting provided he has a valid hunting license issued by New York State and an approved gun import form from the BATFE. 

ANTIQUES
The New York definition of a firearm does not include an antique firearm. An antique firearm is any unloaded muzzle loading pistol or revolver with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, or a pistol or revolver that uses fixed cartridges that are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. A license is not required to possess, collect or carry an unloaded antique firearm. READ ALL

However, a license is required to possess, collect and carry antique pistols. The licensing statute defines an antique pistol as: any single shot, muzzle loading pistol with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system manufactured in or before l898, which is not designed for using rim-fire or conventional center-fire fixed ammunition; and any replica if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rim-fire or conventional center-fire fixed ammunition, or uses rim-fire or conventional center-fire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. To the extent that an “antique pistol” is not also an “antique firearm,” a license would be required for lawful possession. 

NY Law has interpreted this to mean antique rifles, shotguns, handguns, and replicas thereof, are generally exempt from the above restrictions and can be bought and possessed without a permit. (Persons who shoot muzzle-loading handguns must be properly licensed.) However, to fall within the exemption, antique handguns must be unloaded and possessed without the materials required for loading.

MACHINE GUNS
It is a felony for any person to manufacture, transport or dispose of a machine gun. It is a felony to buy, receive, dispose or conceal a machine gun that has been defaced for the purpose of concealment. 

The presence in any room, dwelling, structure or vehicle of any machine gun is presumptive evidence of unlawful possession by all persons occupying the place where the machine gun is found.

A machine gun is defined as any weapon from which a number of shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged from a magazine with one continuous pull of the trigger and includes a submachine gun. 

ASSAULT WEAPONS
It shall be unlawful to possess any “assault weapon” or “large capacity ammunition feeding device.” So called assault weapons lawfully possessed prior to September 14, 1994 and large capacity ammunition feeding devices manufactured prior to such date can continue to be lawfully possessed. READ ALL

“Assault weapon” is defined as:

•A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
•a folding or telescoping stock;
•a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
•a bayonet mount;
•a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor;
•a grenade launcher.
•A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following characteristics:
•a folding or telescoping stock;
•a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
•a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
•an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
•A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
•an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
•a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
•shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
•manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded.
•A semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm.
•Any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as:
•Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (All Models);
•Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
•Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
•Colt AR-15;
•Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
•SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
•Steyr AUG;
•Intratec TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22;
•revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker.
Assault weapons does not include:

•any rifle, shotgun or pistol that: is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide action; or
•has been rendered permanently inoperable; or
•an antique firearm as defined under federal law;
•a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
•a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;
•a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof, specifically exempted from the federal assault weapon ban list as such weapon was manufactured on October 1, 1993. 
“Large capacity ammunition feeding device” means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September 13, 1994, that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition. There is an exception for an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition. See New York State penal Law Section 265.00 subdivision 23.

Range Protection
The owner of a shooting range may present an affirmative defense in any suit brought against it in which noise or noise pollution is claimed in the suit. READ ALL

1. In any action or proceeding commenced against an owner or user of a shooting range where one or more causes of action asserts a claim based on noise or noise pollution resulting from the inherent shooting activity on such shooting range, it shall be an affirmative defense that, at the time of the commencement of the action or proceeding, the shooting range is in compliance with any applicable noise control laws or ordinances, or, if the applicable noise control laws or ordinances have no legal force and effect against such owner or user or there are no applicable noise control laws or ordinances at the time of the effective date of this section, then the A-weighted sound level of small arms fire on the shooting range does not exceed 90 dB(A) for one hour out of a day, or does not exceed 85 dB(A) for eight hours out of a day measured at, or adjusted to, a distance of one hundred feet outside the real property boundary of the shooting range. An owner or user may move for judgment dismissing one or more causes of action asserted against him on the ground that a cause of action cannot be maintained because of such affirmative defense.

2. Nothing in this section shall in any way limit the rights or remedies which are otherwise available to a person under any other law.

3. Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivisions one and two of this section, no shooting range shall be operated during the period from 10:00 PM until 7:00 AM unless a local law or ordinance specifically authorizes the operation of a shooting range during all or any portion of such time period.

4. For the purposes of this section:

(a) “Shooting range” shall mean an outdoor range equipped with targets for use with firearms and shall include, but not be limited to, all rifle, pistol and shotgun ranges.

(b) “A-weighted sound level” shall mean the sound pressure level measured by the use of an instrument with the metering characteristics and A-weighting frequency response prescribed by sound level meters using the impulse response mode.

(c) “Sound pressure level” shall mean twenty times the logarithm to the base ten of the ratio of the root mean squared pressure of a sound to a reference pressure of twenty micropascals. The unit applied to this measure shall be the decibel (dB).

(d) “Small arms” shall mean projectile firearms of small caliber, including rifles, pistols, and shotguns.


MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS
Any person lawfully in possession of a firearm who suffers the loss or theft of said weapon shall report the facts and circumstances of the loss or theft to a police department or sheriff’s office within twenty-four hours of the discovery of the loss or theft. READ ALL

Illegal possession of a loaded firearm is a class C violent felony, punishable by a minimum mandatory term of three and a half years and a maximum of fifteen years.

It is unlawful to discharge a firearm so as the load passes over any part of a public highway.

It is a crime to possess any rifle, shotgun or handgun in or upon a building or grounds, used for educational purposes, of any school, college or university. It is lawful, however, to possess a rifle, shotgun or handgun in or upon the forestry lands, wherever located, owned and maintained by the State University of New York College of environmental science and forestry, without the written authorization of such educational institution.

It is unlawful to discharge a firearm within five hundred feet from a dwelling house, farm building or farm structure actually occupied or used, school building, school playground, or occupied factory or church.

It is unlawful to willfully discharge any firearm either in a public place, or in any place where there is any person to be endangered thereby.

It is a crime to intentionally point or discharge any firearm toward another person (except in self-defense), even if no malice or injury is involved.

It is a crime to deface or alter the serial number or any other distinguishing number or identification mark on any handgun, rifle or shotgun, or to buy, receive, or dispose of a defaced firearm. Possession of any firearm that has been defaced creates a legal presumption that the possessor committed the offense.

The presence of a firearm in a vehicle is presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying the vehicle except if:

•the firearm is found upon the person of one of the occupants;
•if the firearm is found in a vehicle operated for hire by a duly licensed driver, then the presumption will not apply to the driver, or
•the firearm found is a handgun and one of the occupants has in his possession a valid license to have and carry concealed.
It is unlawful to possess a bullet containing an explosive substance designed to detonate upon impact or possess any armor piercing ammunition with intent to use unlawfully against another. 

Note
Unless otherwise noted, the word firearm in this digest is used in its general sense, as any rifle, shotgun, or handgun. However, readers of the New York law should be aware that the term “firearm” when it appears in the text of the statutes, means only handguns and other firearms of a size which may be concealed upon the person.


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## srpumpkin (Sep 29, 2012)

Maybe I'm being parinoid but if this was in a local area for him, could this b the local govnmnt. trying to seize guns n ammo from ones they think r preppers or gun collectors?


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

srpumpkin said:


> Maybe I'm being parinoid but if this was in a local area for him, could this b the local govnmnt. trying to seize guns n ammo from ones they think r preppers or gun collectors?


did you read the section under antique weapons? If you have more than 20 firearms your a criminal in New York.


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## shadownmss (Nov 13, 2012)

I love this part:

*"The licensing officer may, in his discretion, add restrictions to the license, limiting the places where the handgun may be kept or carried." *

Who the hell do these people think they are?.......... All I keep thinking is you better keep your powder dry.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

It is so unconstitutional that all involved in it's creation should be shot for treason!!!!


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> did you read the section under antique weapons? If you have more than 20 firearms your a criminal in New York.


You need to read the definition of a firearm a little closer and then read the exemptions in S. 265 of the Penal Code.
"Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length, or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise is such weapon is altered modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches or an assault weapon. For the purposes of this subdivision, the length of a barrel of a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breach, or breachlock when closed, and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the overall length of a weapon made from a shogun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique firearm.

Pistol and revolvers registered to a pistol permit holder are exempted later in S265 So Firearms in this section of the Penal code are defined as Unregistered Pistols or revolvers, Assault weapons, and NFA rifles & shotguns with short barrels or short OAL. Rifles and shotguns with barrels longer than 16" or 18" respectively are referred to specifically as rifles and shotguns in S 265 of the Penal Code.

It caught me off guard too the first time I read it but when I went back and looked at the definition of a firearm I realized what it meant. Yes, I agree it's worded badly.

Back on topic, I doubt the guy that got arrested has much of a leg to stand on since 30 rounds magazines have been banned in NY for some time unless they were made before the 1994 AWB. If those mags are recent production, say the Pmags or something similar, he's screwed. If he is still currently serving in the military he might be able to get out of it using an exemption in S 265. I hope he beats the rap but I suspect there is more to this than there appears. I wonder why they searched the car and why he let them, possibly he didn't think there was anything in the car that would get him in trouble. This is a shining example of why you shouldn't consent to searches.

-Infidel


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## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

Maybe he should call Piers Morgan and find out how he got off. :twisted:


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> It is so unconstitutional that all involved in it's creation should be shot for treason!!!!


It should also include those who enforce/support said unconstitutional laws,regulations and rules. I see no reason to exclude all parties who go against the Constitution, they will do the same to those of us that do support the Constitution. Battles are beginning and if we/they are not careful WAR will follow.


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

Ive tried to non consent to a search before. They later labeled it a pre-tow search. Even though I had someone that was available to pick up the vehicle and specifically told them I did not want my vehicle searched. They trashed the inside and pried open my panels including breaking the dome light. What did they find. NOTHING. I made a complaint to the Police chief and "they are looking into the damage done to me car"


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I think I need something to get my blood pressure down. Here is a man that risked his life and was injured fighting in Afghanistan against Al Qaeda because they destroyed the New York trade center killing over 3000.
Now for having something in his car that he probably bought perfectly legal a month ago they throw 5 felonies on him. By not doing anything he was basically turned into a criminal overnight.


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

Welcome to the 21st century. I got a felony under different but no less absurd circumstances. It is a piece of the disarming of America agenda. 

We have a local term here thats used. The DA will throw a ton of shit at you hoping something will stick.

Best advice take it all the way to the jury. Your punishment will be worse if found guilty but as I look back the worst mistake I made was I bent under the threats of the DA and took a deal that I shouldnt have.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> It is so unconstitutional that all involved in it's creation should be shot for treason!!!!


Can't try them for passing garbage. On the other hand, an injury has been caused, now. I'd say it is time for a Title 42 suit, starting with the dirtbags who enforced such a statute.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Denton said:


> Can't try them for passing garbage. On the other hand, an injury has been caused, now. I'd say it is time for a Title 42 suit, starting with the dirtbags who enforced such a statute.


Passing garbage is one thing, but passing something that on it's face goes against the Constitution/Bill of Rights is and should be a punishable offense! If they don't know if it goes against the Constitution/Bill of Rights then don't vote for/pass it, problem solved.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Infidel said:


> You need to read the definition of a firearm a little closer and then read the exemptions in S. 265 of the Penal Code.
> "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length, or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise is such weapon is altered modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches or an assault weapon. For the purposes of this subdivision, the length of a barrel of a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breach, or breachlock when closed, and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the overall length of a weapon made from a shogun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique firearm.
> 
> Pistol and revolvers registered to a pistol permit holder are exempted later in S265 So Firearms in this section of the Penal code are defined as Unregistered Pistols or revolvers, Assault weapons, and NFA rifles & shotguns with short barrels or short OAL. Rifles and shotguns with barrels longer than 16" or 18" respectively are referred to specifically as rifles and shotguns in S 265 of the Penal Code.
> ...


It is unlawful to possess 20 or more firearms as defined under NY law outside one's home or business.

Your right I got lost in all the mumbo jumbo:shock:


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We are heading for the Obama repeal of the Constitution. He has his National police force in place he is arming them now.
This is just the beginning, we warned you what was coming. Now see it unfold right in front of you.


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

Sad but True Smitty. Watch for the smokescreens next. AKA changing the subject and trying to appease the sheeple.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The ATF playing it's role putting more weapons on the street in Milwaukee lately. They pass it off as a botched sting but the real reason was to put more guns in the hands of criminals.
Another Holder plan. The weapons would end up in a murder on the street and make head lines for Obama. We were not suppose to find out about it. The real number of weapons will never be known. I wonder if those 7000 DHS wants may not end up being passed out .
If you not worried you should be people need to look around at what they are doing to us.
Lawmakers call for probe into 'botched' ATF sting in Milwaukee | Fox News


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

Looks like Fast and Furious is policy and not a rogue operation like was claimed.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Unless they have probable cause and think it will stand up in court I never consent to a vehicle search, *EVER*! Your doing nothing but inviting trouble, despite how much effort you put into being a law abiding citizen. There are just too many ways for you to get screwed on a deal like that.

If a Police Officer doesnt have probable cause and want to search your vehicle understand they are on what we call a "Fishing Expedition", where we dont have enough to do anything more than simply ticket you for a moving violation but we are hoping that by searching your car we can find something else that we otherwise wouldnt have found if you werent an idiot and waved your rights. I aint hating on the Police, just understand they dont neccesarily have your best interest in mind when they are confronting you.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

AsteroidX said:


> Looks like Fast and Furious is policy and not a rogue operation like was claimed.


It has claimed three Border Patrol Agents lives so far. In every case the media has called it "friendly fire incident", Brian Terry was killed by an ATF supplied weapon to the cartel. Rosas in San Diego was killed by a ATF supplied weapon by a smuggler but the media claimed he was killed by his own weapon. In the latest was Ive in Nogales and the media just before the election called it a Friendly Fire Incident but what didn't make the news was that a small caliber round was removed from his head. Who has put out the false information? It was our own union which is one of the largest supporter of Obama. Who has started the whole investigation into Fast and Furious, the FBI. 
Fast and Furious has cost the lives of thousands of Mexican's lives and at least three BP Agents lives. I'm not just pulling shit from the internet and making a conspiracy theory this shit really happened and it cost the lives of some really good men.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

ekim said:


> Passing garbage is one thing, but passing something that on it's face goes against the Constitution/Bill of Rights is and should be a punishable offense! If they don't know if it goes against the Constitution/Bill of Rights then don't vote for/pass it, problem solved.


I hear ya, and I feel your anger, sir. I'm just pointing out the legal facts. Sitting around and crafting idiotic pieces of legislation poses no more of an injury than if they were up there, wasting our tax dollars by finger-painting on the walls. The only time a citizen incurs a legal injry is when the unconstitutional statute is enforced. At that moment, the injury occurs.

From the idiot donut-eater to the judge presiding on the bench (if it goes to trial), get them all for violating rights, collusion, fraud, etc.

Yes, by the way, a judge can be sued. Not for a decision, of course, but for the above-mentioned offenses. Don't appeal, simply add the names and move to the next level.

Come to think of it, this is so yester-year, when the law meant something. This might not mean a thing, anymore. Seems our government is becoming a lawless one, and so are a couple of the states.


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## Dr. Prepper (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm really disappointed that the legal gun owners are not demonstrating on the streets over this situation (if the guy is not a felon or drug dealer). If we are too cowardly we will loose the fight. One person cannot do it by himself but there is tremendous power in numbers.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

In the latest attack on the American people, a decorated War Hero has been arrested and charged with five counts of third degree criminal possession of a weapon, for having empty 30 round AR-15 Magazines in his vehicle.

On Sunday January 6th Staff Sgt. Nathan Haddad, a decorated combat veteran, was driving through Jefferson County New York when he was randomly pulled over for a vehicle check. Haddad, who had five 30 round empty magazines in his possession, was arrested by the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department and charged with five felony counts.


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## Southern Dad (Nov 26, 2012)

A couple decades ago I was helping my brother move. This is what happens when you own a pickup truck. We went and rented a U-Haul trailer just before the place closed. We hooked up to it and then had dinner next door. As soon as we left, a deputy pulled in behind us and lit up. He assumed that we stole the trailer since he knew they were closed. After looking over the rental agreement, running my driver's license, license plates and checking my out of state driver's license and military ID he was just about to let us go when he asked if he could take a quick look in the trailer. Knowing that the trailer was empty, I was about to comply. My brother on the other hand was not. Two years younger and a bit wild, he was a self declared Sovereign American Citizen. 

He told Barney Fife to get a warrant. Not being amused, the deputy called for back up. Lots of back up. Soon we had local police, deputy sheriffs and state troopers on scene. They brought out the dogs. They brought out the guys in the black and gray camo. This all went on for over an hour and now there was a news team on scene and huge crowd spilled out of the Cracker Barrel to see what all the fuss was about. I was sweating bullets. I had a .45 caliber pistol in the vehicle that was legally purchased. It was in a locked ammo box behind the seat. 

A deputy came up and served me with the search warrant. He demanded that I remove the lock. I guess that they had forgotten their bolt cutters. I complied while my brother examined the search warrant like a skilled attorney. When they opened the door, the trailer was empty. Completely empty. No blanket, no pillows, no bales of dope, nothing. It was silent as everyone stared. The news teams camera rolling. One deputy recovering slightly said the words that I feared... "Open up the truck." As I fumbled for my keys, my brother stopped me. He turned to the cops and said, "This warrant only covers the trailer. Gentleman, if you have further probable cause you will need to wake up the judge." The sheriff asked my brother if he was moving in or out of the county. My brother assured him that he was moving far, far away and the sheriff... well, he told us to have a good night.


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## Dr. Prepper (Dec 20, 2012)

Great story Southern Dad. Your brother is a great citizen.


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## shadownmss (Nov 13, 2012)

That was a terrific story Southern Dad


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Southern Dad said:


> A couple decades ago I was helping my brother move. This is what happens when you own a pickup truck. We went and rented a U-Haul trailer just before the place closed. We hooked up to it and then had dinner next door. As soon as we left, a deputy pulled in behind us and lit up. He assumed that we stole the trailer since he knew they were closed. After looking over the rental agreement, running my driver's license, license plates and checking my out of state driver's license and military ID he was just about to let us go when he asked if he could take a quick look in the trailer. Knowing that the trailer was empty, I was about to comply. My brother on the other hand was not. Two years younger and a bit wild, he was a self declared Sovereign American Citizen.
> 
> He told Barney Fife to get a warrant. Not being amused, the deputy called for back up. Lots of back up. Soon we had local police, deputy sheriffs and state troopers on scene. They brought out the dogs. They brought out the guys in the black and gray camo. This all went on for over an hour and now there was a news team on scene and huge crowd spilled out of the Cracker Barrel to see what all the fuss was about. I was sweating bullets. I had a .45 caliber pistol in the vehicle that was legally purchased. It was in a locked ammo box behind the seat.
> 
> A deputy came up and served me with the search warrant. He demanded that I remove the lock. I guess that they had forgotten their bolt cutters. I complied while my brother examined the search warrant like a skilled attorney. When they opened the door, the trailer was empty. Completely empty. No blanket, no pillows, no bales of dope, nothing. It was silent as everyone stared. The news teams camera rolling. One deputy recovering slightly said the words that I feared... "Open up the truck." As I fumbled for my keys, my brother stopped me. He turned to the cops and said, "This warrant only covers the trailer. Gentleman, if you have further probable cause you will need to wake up the judge." The sheriff asked my brother if he was moving in or out of the county. My brother assured him that he was moving far, far away and the sheriff... well, he told us to have a good night.


What the future holds for many American citizens as the government continues to strip away our rights and more LEO's break their oath to up hold the Constitution.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Yes sir I think your right. It is a sign of the times and getting more prevelant each year. Its one of the reasons why my stint as a police officer was so short lived. It seemed like about half the time we were after the wrong guys and for the wrong reasons. I saw way too many people trying to do the right thing, thinking they were doing the right thing get hemmed up in the corner on a technicality and get the short end of the stick while the bigger fish went on about their business as usual.


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## shadownmss (Nov 13, 2012)

Below are a couple of videos from a Q and A session in Buffalo New York regarding the new gun laws. I believe a few patriots showed up for this meeting.

Short Version:






Full Version:


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