# Basic questions about scopes



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Hi,
I have hunted for most of my life but two things I have never had much dealings with are scopes and automatic
Firearms. I'm more of a leaver action 30-30 and a pump 12 gauge type of guy (red neck?) Anyways now I'm 
trying to learn about both due to upcoming events. wtshtf
I was doing some trading and ended up with a leupold scope. It says 6.5 x 20 what do these numbers represent?


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## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

I am looking for the same thing, I didn't know much about scopes to be honest. I will be buying a Ruger American Rifle soon and buying a Scope (plus looking around for an ACOG to go on my AR). I have always heard you want to spend as much on a scope as you did for the rifle but I wanted to be sure I knew what I would be spending good money on.

In my research I found This Website very informative and explains everything pretty well.

Good Luck.


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## SF340_Driver (Aug 2, 2013)

Nomenclature represents the magnification and objective lens size. For example:

1-4x20 = one times (none) magnification variable to four times magnification with a 20mm objective (front) lens

3-9x40 = three times variable to nine times with 40mm objective lens

6.5x20 would be fixed 6.5 power with a 20mm objective - I don't think leupold makes one of these and I suspect it is likely a 6.5-20x? scope, meaning a 6.5 to 20 variable power scope with ? objective lens measurement.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

6.5 is the magnification power, 20 is the diameter of the lens in millimeters. This is a fixed scope? (non-adjustable)
Leupold makes good stuff.

New Riflescopes 2013: OL Reviews and Ranks the Best Scopes of the Year | Outdoor Life


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok I just went to the leupold web sight,,,,,,You got to be chitting me $874.99??? For a scope?
The scope is a VX-3 6.5-20x40mm Fine Duplex I'm having some camera problems and can't get a picture of mine 
right now but there was one on the sight I copied it.



Mine doesn't look like new but it's not that bad ether. 
Darn I think I lucked out on this one.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

6.5 would be the power 20mm is the objective lens and that would give you only a 3mm exit pupil. In other words you have to align your eye up to see through a 3mm hole, it would be very slow for target acquisition.
I would like something like 7mm to 10mm exit pupil for quick acquisition.

Edit: The VX-3 6.5-20x40mm is a very good scope at 6.5 power now you are getting a 6mm exit pupil and and 20 power you will have just 2mm that is one of the reason a large objective lens is important plus it's better light gathering ability. 

PS:$874.99 it is not uncommon for the scope to cost more than the gun. In fact the Acogs the Army uses on the m4 cost more than the rifle.


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## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> 6.5 would be the power 20mm is the objective lens and that would give you only a 3mm exit pupil. In other words you have to align your eye up to see through a 3mm hole, it would be very slow for target acquisition.
> I would like something like 7mm to 10mm exit pupil for quick acquisition.
> 
> Edit: The VX-3 6.5-20x40mm is a very good scope at 6.5 power now you are getting a 6mm exit pupil and and 20 power you will have just 2mm that is one of the reason a large objective lens is important plus it's better light gathering ability.
> ...


Yes,  Trijicon makes some very nice Fiber Optic Sights.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Leupold makes decent hunting glass, but most of their scopes aren't ideal for tactical use, at least in my opinion. Tactical users are better off with a scope that has the reticle in the front focal plane, which allows you to do your range estimations at any magnification. With second focal plane scopes, you have to be at a specific magnification for your retical divisions to provide accurate measurements. It's too easy to forget this in a stressful situation.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

SF340_Driver said:


> Nomenclature represents the magnification and objective lens size. For example:
> 
> 1-4x20 = one times (none) magnification variable to four times magnification with a 20mm objective (front) lens
> 
> ...


 That covered that well.
To much magnification or in many case any at all is bad on short range shots 100 meters
To big an objective lens lens allows for to much movement to be seen in the scope and inhabits accurate placement.
Reflex sights tend to use no magnification they are for fast target acquisition and accurate shots placement. Once zeroed a true Red dot reflex sight is on as long as the red dot you see in the sight is on target it does not need to be centered up like cross hairs . Good ones are also parallax free at 50 meters


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

Leopold makes some pretty good scopes. IMO you want a first focal place scope with a 1/10 mil mil adjustment rather than a moa adjustment so you don't need to do unnecessary calculations from mil to moa.. You will hear which I also used to think that a larger objective lens draws in more light. That has proven to be untrue and is just a marketing tactic. It is true that a good scope will cost as much or more than the rifle itself cost. Some great ones are Schmidt and Bender,Nightforce,Valdada and Leopold. Burris is a great one too. They are pretty high dollar but well worth it if you do any amount of shooting.

There are some others out there that are pretty good IMO and not quite as expensive. Millet makes a 6x24x56 with mil/mil adjustments and you can get them as low as $350 new if you do your research. I have one on a .22-.250 and it is excellent.

I am putting together a Remington 700 300 win mag with a bull barrel for long range shooting. I am putting a Valdada 12x52x56 Terminator Tactical on it so I can get some really good magnification. I have a source for Valdada and I get a HUGE discount or I would never be able to afford it. 

It is all about what you want to do with them and how much money you want to put into it. I shoot daily here on the ranch and with things getting beat around driving around all day. I know I need something pretty stout. Just like bull barrels. I wont own a rifle unless it has a bull barrel (except a few of our AR's). But I don'tcarry them around all day, they are with me in a vehicle or tractor or just shoot from the house.. I don't have to carry them miles thru the woods. SO I prefer the bull barrel. 

It is all just personal preference. You will get TONS of advice and most of it will be great. Take what YOU want to do and put it all together to pick exactly what YOU want out of it and leave the rest


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You do not need to spend 900 dollars for a great rifle scope. Just like an ACOG is outstanding fro an AR not many will spend 1000-1300 for one and I do not blame them. Then you need to figure out what you plan to use it on what is great fro a good hunting rifle sucks for an AR in normal use.
You can buy very good normal rifle scopes in the 200-400 range you will never out shoot


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> You do not need to spend 900 dollars for a great rifle scope. Just like an ACOG is outstanding fro an AR not many will spend 1000-1300 for one and I do not blame them. Then you need to figure out what you plan to use it on what is great fro a good hunting rifle sucks for an AR in normal use.
> You can buy very good normal rifle scopes in the 200-400 range you will never out shoot


When you buy a scope like a nightforce, acog, eotech . You are paying for a scope that has been tested by the military and is battle proven and comes with government spec. as for how deep of water it is capable of. 
I copied and pasted the following.
The Trijicon ACOG is created using a tough, military-spec, aluminum-alloy housing and the Trijicon ACOG is actually water-proof up to depths of 500 feet - rendering the Trijicon ACOG nearlIy indestructible. Just the prism housing in the Trijicon ACOG changes, thus it's actually far more tough compared to traditional designs.

In a SHTF situation I want a scope that will hold up as well as the gun.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

SF340_Driver said:


> Nomenclature represents the magnification and objective lens size. For example:
> 
> 1-4x20 = one times (none) magnification variable to four times magnification with a 20mm objective (front) lens
> 
> ...


You are correct, that would be the Leupold VX-3

Hunting & Shooting Scopes | Leupold Optics

ETA: Sorry, didn't read far enough down an budgetprepp-n beat me to it.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> Ok I just went to the leupold web sight,,,,,,You got to be chitting me $874.99??? For a scope?
> The scope is a VX-3 6.5-20x40mm Fine Duplex I'm having some camera problems and can't get a picture of mine
> right now but there was one on the sight I copied it.
> 
> ...


Generally I think you're going to find that this is too much magnification unless you're shooting long range (over 200yds) or putting it on a benchrest gun. You might be better off selling it off and find a VX3 in a 2.5-8x or a 3.5-10x if it's for a hunting rifle. If you're a .30-30 kind of guy as you said then this scope is overkill and the 2.5-8x would be a much better choice on a .30-30. For a SHTF gun I like a low power variable 1-4x or 1.5-5x for fast acquisition and larger field of view plus at low power it allows me to shoot with both eyes open which tends to keep away the tunnel vision.

-Infidel


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Having used ACOG, AIM and MARS ITL in service and owning them now I will bow to how great they are.
However their cost puts them out of reach for most and there are others will will do just fine for much less
The MARS is every bit as relevant today as the day it was new sold for 1000 then now 650 seen them at 350 but without Ir and beat up.
ACOG has come down and as market grows will come down more. Few AR owner will use an AR at ranges that an ACOG is at it's best.
It is great to have the BEST but the best changes and the budgets do have limits


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

PrepConsultant said:


> I am putting together a Remington 700 300 win mag with a bull barrel for long range shooting. I am putting a Valdada 12x52x56 Terminator Tactical on it so I can get some really good magnification. I have a source for Valdada and I get a HUGE discount or I would never be able to afford it.


You might want to take a look at the Falcon Menace line. I got the 5.5-25x50 for about $450 and I like it a lot.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Affordable scopes for AR types that should do the job for some Firefield is worth a look. beat the heck out of some of their stuff.


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## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

I have had a lot of different scopes over the years from bushnell, Nikon, weaver, leupold, Schmidt and bender, horus and others I can can say from first hand experience the hands down for the price best piece of glass I have owned is a shepherd. research it on the web. There are definitely more expensive scopes, battle tested scopes, tritium and battery powered reticles. but the with both front and rear focal planes and caliber specific bdc/range finder the shepherd cant be beat. I took my wife to the range set her up with my 6.5 Grendel ar 15 and her first shot she was on the steel at 500 meters. there are no adjustments from 100 /1000 once you have your zero you still have to read the wind but with proper bullet selection the bdc/rangefinder reticles are spot on. I highly recommend the 6x18x 40 I have a 3x10x40 but I prefer a little mor magnification. if I could find one complaint about my shepherds its that they don't have side adj parallax. If you wanna spend more then look at the Horus web site very similar to the shepherd but geared more towards military / tactical application. Bushnell has a HDMR (Horus reticle) available and I believe some other Manufactures have the Horus reticle system available too but I found mine to be a little too busy for my taste. Horus and kestrel also have an Atrag system available I have a Kestrel NV4500 (ballistics calculator and weather station all in one. But usually I just use the bullet flight app on the Iphone.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

So you guys think the VX-3 6.5-20x40 would be to much for the AR 15 I just got?


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> So you guys think the VX-3 6.5-20x40 would be to much for the AR 15 I just got?


I think it is. Unless you put a bull barrel and plan on shooting long range..

I also like the NCStar brand. It is a decent quality optic at a very good price..


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> So you guys think the VX-3 6.5-20x40 would be to much for the AR 15 I just got?


 Wrong scope for that weapon clearly.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

budgetprepp-n said:


> So you guys think the VX-3 6.5-20x40 would be to much for the AR 15 I just got?


I think it would be too. I might suggest a non-magnifying red dot sight and maybe add a 3x flip to the side magnifier that you can flip out of the way for close in work.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

For a weapon like an AR a good reflex sight should be your first purchase cost effective and made for that type weapon.
When you are ready for a scope one that starts with no magnification but try to stay under a low end of 2.5, on the to 3-6 X 
Hunting rifle type scopes may be ok on an Ar for bench shooting but real world use they are just in the way.
shot range shooting with magnification has it's problems with a clear good steady sight picture. Over magnification on the longer end can lead to some of the same issues. And AR scope should not be half the Length of the weapon.
I have one setup wit a 2.5X10x30 a red laser is sighted for short range point and shoot. Not recommend for the first time out .
A 2.5x10X 30 will do the job and you can learn to deal with the short comings.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> So you guys think the VX-3 6.5-20x40 would be to much for the AR 15 I just got?


Yep I gotta agree, the 6.5-20x is way too much scope for that rifle. As has been stated a reflex sight would be a good option and a lower power variable is another good choice. 3.5-10x would be about the max power I would consider and a 2-7x would be even better. If you think you might need that rifle for close up work at say 25yds or less go for the reflex sight or a 1-4x variable.

-Infidel


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