# The sharpest steel



## Meangreen

Ok here is my question, what steel makes the sharpest edge, easiest to sharpen, and holds an edge the longest? Is it carbon steel, a blend, or not steel at all? I want a knife that I can get a razor sharp edge without a lot of work on the stone. Any advice is appreciated.


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## PrepConsultant

I have always been a fan of carbon myself..


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## jimb1972

I prefer carbon steel, some of the newer stainless steels may be as good. I found what I am happy with and am too cheap to try any of the newer alphabet steels.


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## HuntingHawk

You are asking for three different things. Plus depends what the blade is used for.


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## BigCheeseStick

Of every blade I've owned I've never seen anything take and hold an edge like AUS 8. It's become nearly impossible to find, so most manufactures have gone to AUS 8A. To my experience the A is for Almost as good.  Still significantly better than others I've tried.


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## SF340_Driver

http://www.cartercutlery.com/NewsLetterArchive/2012-01-26_NewsArchive.html

I have a number of Murry's knives and they are fantastic...


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## rickkyw1720pf

All steels they use for making blades have gives and takes, you can't have easiest to sharpen and holds an edge the longest as they or at the opposite end of the hardness scale. A ceramic blade will hold a edge longer than any steel but is almost impossible to sharpen and requires diamond sharpener and the blade can break just by dropping it.

I actually don't understand the price of some high end knives as they surely don't reflect the cost of the metal used in it's manufacture. There is the issue of heat treatment that companies use so that the same steel can be made either easier to sharpen or hold its edge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_blade_materials


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## Mule13

RickyW nailed it. you cant have a blade that is easy to sharpen and then holds a edge for ever. for a blade to retain its edge it needs a really hard edge(which will chip if dropped or hitting on bone etc...)if its really hard like that its gonna be really hard to sharpen. and also someone else said there isnt one perfect steel. wootz is probably the closest you get to perfect, but it costs over 1000$ per inch in knife form . in my opinion for an all around knife that you plan to keep oiled and sharpened something in 1095 is great. holds a decent edge, pretty easy to sharpen once you get the right edge geometry on it. you just hit it against the sharpening stne a few times and its ready.another good steel is 5160. again though all this is with the fact that its been properly heat treated and annealed. those are both carbon steels. and the most common. there are tons of carbon steels out there and even more stainless.the heat treating process for carbon steels are alot easier so i tend to stay with those.i made a few knives couple years back. trained with a couple guys that were really good knife makers. i was never that good myself. i really dont have much patience and making knives require alot lol.so the next thing is damascus steel. its a combo of the stainless and the high carbon. if you can afford that its prolly the best of both worlds. and it has really nice blade patterns.if you have time do a googlew search on cable damascus it was always my favorite  the pattern it makes leave the blade looking like a snake skin.


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## BeefBallsBerry

Wolverines claws. Case closed


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## dwight55

If you check the steel used in an old fashioned straight razor, . . . nothing fancy, . . . carbon steel.

Holds a "razor edge", . . . easy sharpening, . . . does not break easily, . . . but doesn't stay sharp too awful long.

Personally, I like carbon steel, . . . I can sharpen it on a rock I find laying alongside the creek bed, . . . most others you cannot do that with.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Inor

I have a set of bench chisels made from German O-2 steel that I really like. I am not sure if that is a universal designation or something that is unique to Germany. They hold an edge really well and are moderately easy to sharpen with a Japanese water stone or jeweler's rouge on a leather strop.


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## Verteidiger

MeanGreen:

Given what you do for a living, I would say AUS 8 is your steel.

And you should consider this knife - good enough for Navy SEALs, good enough for me...read the description and specs...:

SEAL Team Elite - Knives - Tactical

-- Vert


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## Moonshinedave

I prefer the knifes that are easy to sharpen, tho they probably don't hold an edge as long as others.


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## Nathan Jefferson

If you want a really nice knife go for a nitrogen steel, s30v, s35v or INFI.

Very strong, won't chip, won't rust. It isn't that easy to sharpen - but it will hold an edge for a LONG time.

Only downside I see to these knives is the cost.


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## Verteidiger

A chart for comparison purposes:

Knife Steel Selection Chart


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## Meangreen

HuntingHawk said:


> You are asking for three different things. Plus depends what the blade is used for.


Yes, what I want is a good balance between all three. I know there is no perfect blade.


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## Meangreen

Verteidiger said:


> MeanGreen:
> 
> Given what you do for a living, I would say AUS 8 is your steel.
> 
> And you should consider this knife - good enough for Navy SEALs, good enough for me...read the description and specs...:
> 
> SEAL Team Elite - Knives - Tactical
> 
> -- Vert


I have an older version of this that I really like and it is a great knife but not for everyday carry. I should have been more specific, it needs to be a folder.


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## Meangreen

BigCheeseStick said:


> Of every blade I've owned I've never seen anything take and hold an edge like AUS 8. It's become nearly impossible to find, so most manufactures have gone to AUS 8A. To my experience the A is for Almost as good.  Still significantly better than others I've tried.


I will watch the action sites for the AUS 8!


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## Meangreen

O-2 steel has been the standard for tool steel for many many years.


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## PalmettoTree

Easiest to sharpen and holds an edge the longest are mutually exclusive.


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## Boss Dog

Many major knife makers have at least on model labeled something along the line of, "the knife of the Navy Seals".
Don't buy into it. When I was in the Navy some 20 years ago, I had the privilege to work with the Seal Teams some, in a supporting role. 
The USN MK3 MOD0 was the only knife the Navy would supply to them (you know, govt bureaucracy and all). 
If they didn't like it (none did), each member would go to a dive shop and purchase their own diving knife for duty use. 
It is a good carbon knife, just not very good for working in salt water. Mine shown below.
They can be found used on ebay for about $50-70.

Ontario Knife Company MK 3 Navy Knife

Amazon.com: Ontario 6141 MK 3 Navy Knife (Black): Sports & Outdoors


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## Meangreen

BigCheeseStick said:


> Of every blade I've owned I've never seen anything take and hold an edge like AUS 8. It's become nearly impossible to find, so most manufactures have gone to AUS 8A. To my experience the A is for Almost as good.  Still significantly better than others I've tried.


I think your on to something here! I found quite a few models made from this steel including an Ontario Rat. I will be putting in an order


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## Doommaker

AUS 8 has low edge retention, decent rust resistance, and is easy to sharpen. It certainly isn't the best steel, but it is cheap.


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## Meangreen

Boss Dog said:


> Many major knife makers have at least on model labeled something along the line of, "the knife of the Navy Seals".
> Don't buy into it. When I was in the Navy some 20 years ago, I had the privilege to work with the Seal Teams some, in a supporting role.
> The USN MK3 MOD0 was the only knife the Navy would supply to them (you know, govt bureaucracy and all).
> If they didn't like it (none did), each member would go to a dive shop and purchase their own diving knife for duty use.
> It is a good carbon knife, just not very good for working in salt water. Mine shown below.
> They can be found used on ebay for about $50-70.
> 
> Ontario Knife Company MK 3 Navy Knife
> 
> Amazon.com: Ontario 6141 MK 3 Navy Knife (Black): Sports & Outdoors


You're right on that one! I had the pleasure of being trained and working with Navy SEALs years ago learning the finer points of ship boarding. I was surprised at what they were actually issued compared to what many companies were claiming they were issued. At the time the Glock knife was the issued knife and it wasn't much. I asked a SEAL about his equipment and he said one of the most memorable lines that I have remembered for years, "Take anything and paint it black, throw some Velcro on it, and call it tactical and some cop will throw it on his belt!"


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## Meangreen

Verteidiger said:


> A chart for comparison purposes:
> 
> Knife Steel Selection Chart


This is just what I needed, thank you!


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## Meangreen

Boss Dog said:


> Many major knife makers have at least on model labeled something along the line of, "the knife of the Navy Seals".
> Don't buy into it. When I was in the Navy some 20 years ago, I had the privilege to work with the Seal Teams some, in a supporting role.
> The USN MK3 MOD0 was the only knife the Navy would supply to them (you know, govt bureaucracy and all).
> If they didn't like it (none did), each member would go to a dive shop and purchase their own diving knife for duty use.
> It is a good carbon knife, just not very good for working in salt water. Mine shown below.
> They can be found used on ebay for about $50-70.
> 
> Ontario Knife Company MK 3 Navy Knife
> 
> Amazon.com: Ontario 6141 MK 3 Navy Knife (Black): Sports & Outdoors


How good a job does the built in sharpener do?


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## Boss Dog

There isn't one.


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## Smitty901

They have been trying to get that one right for a long time.
Harder the steel the sharper the edge longer it stays that way but twist a real hard blade and it brakes
Softer steel easy to sharpen won't hold edge but does not break.
Some even have a cutting edge that is harder than the body of the knife to try and get the best of both worlds.
You find the prefect one post it up.


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## Fuzzee

As said you can't have it all. What you can get is a blade that has a some what balanced performance. 440A that the Ontario MK3's are using are not up to the same par as others like 154CM, CPM S30V, and AUS-8A. I have knives in all 3 though I don't use the one in AUS-8A at all anymore. It's a Cold Steel Military Classic that I just went to town on dying the sheath (trying anyways) and getting rid of the mirror (too shiny) finish they put on it. I'd meant to get it sandblasted, but it got tossed in a box and I forget about it. My Benchmade Nimravus combo edge is my main BOB knife and I love that little bastard. My Spydeco Manix is one of my main folders and a major workhorse.










http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/BM...54CM-Steel-Combo-Blade-Black-Aluminum-Handles


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## jimb1972

My favorite blade materials are 1095 and 440c, many of the new steels are to brittle for my tastes. A good carbon steel won't chip on you and you can touch it up on a rock if you have to.


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## Meangreen

Boss Dog said:


> There isn't one.


I saw a Mark III with a built in sharpener in the sheath. Seemed like a good idea wondered if it is worth it.


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## Boss Dog

Probably came after me, I've been out close to 20 years now.


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## Smitty901

Knife has never been a real big deal with me. The issue bayonet was cool but more than I want around.
I have a couple older Buck model 119's simple SS blade mid size knife they have served me well .
Hold an edge for what I use them for. Little abuse they have have never broken a tip or chipped edge.


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## retired guard

My father used the kabar or MK 2 to kill a Son of Nippon was it the greatest knife of all time? No! Do you do what you need to with what you have? Yes!


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## Meangreen

retired guard said:


> My father used the kabar or MK 2 to kill a Son of Nippon was it the greatest knife of all time? No! Do you do what you need to with what you have? Yes!


I really just need a really sharp pocket knife that I can sharpen back up with a few strokes on a stone. I do own some pretty impressive knives including a Ka-Bar I have had since I was 17. I tried carrying it on my duty belt but the politically correct police made me take it off.


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## Meangreen

Smitty901 said:


> Knife has never been a real big deal with me. The issue bayonet was cool but more than I want around.
> I have a couple older Buck model 119's simple SS blade mid size knife they have served me well .
> Hold an edge for what I use them for. Little abuse they have have never broken a tip or chipped edge.


I have a Buck 110 that still has the sharpest blade around. Unfortunately with the new Bucks, only the edge is heat treated so once you sharpen them a few times they lose that great edge.


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## retired guard

Meangreen said:


> I really just need a really sharp pocket knife that I can sharpen back up with a few strokes on a stone. I do own some pretty impressive knives including a Ka-Bar I have had since I was 17. I tried carrying it on my duty belt but the politically correct police made me take it off.


Then don't over think, get what does the job, doesn't bust the budget, is available, and above all meets YOUR needs.


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## Meangreen

Ya I just seem to have a pile of knives and always want an excuse to get another. I don't like spending a lot of money on a knife because then I'm afraid to use it like it was intended. I was looking at all the different types of steels and rockwell hardness and such, I figure you guys would know which one works the best.


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## PrepConsultant

Like I said before, I like carbon myself.. I usually keep a piece of leather to use to sharpen it REAL good!! I have a piece attached to a little block of wood that I use to touch it up when needed..


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## Fuzzee

Meangreen said:


> I really just need a really sharp pocket knife that I can sharpen back up with a few strokes on a stone. I do own some pretty impressive knives including a Ka-Bar I have had since I was 17. I tried carrying it on my duty belt but the politically correct police made me take it off.


Is that all, sheesh. Either of these fit the bill and I carry either one on a daily basis to know. I do have a Manix 1 version, but the steel is the same. My Caly 3 I mainly carry for work and when the pants I wear are tighter in the pocket as it's smaller and lighter than the Manix. Both are exceptional knives with premium blades, build and materials. A pocket knife I realized a few years back may be one of the most important knives you'll own, because it's the most likely you'll have on you at all times when shtf. It's worth buying a good one. Or two.

Spyderco Caly Models - KnifeCenter

Spyderco Manix Folding Knives - KnifeCenter

A good small sharpener to put a razor sharp edge on fast that I also carry daily in the GHB, is a Lansky Dogbone.

http://www2.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_store.html?ttl=Lansky Products&cat=ls&k=dog&series=1356&


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## Nathan Jefferson

Want a new knife that is fun?

Spyderco Delica with emerson wave!

Or what is one of the best deals out there, designed by Rick Hinderer.

Kershaw Cryo


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## Meangreen

Fuzzee said:


> Is that all, sheesh. Either of these fit the bill and I carry either one on a daily basis to know. I do have a Manix 1 version, but the steel is the same. My Caly 3 I mainly carry for work and when the pants I wear are tighter in the pocket as it's smaller and lighter than the Manix. Both are exceptional knives with premium blades, build and materials. A pocket knife I realized a few years back may be one of the most important knives you'll own, because it's the most likely you'll have on you at all times when shtf. It's worth buying a good one. Or two.
> 
> Spyderco Caly Models - KnifeCenter
> 
> Spyderco Manix Folding Knives - KnifeCenter
> 
> A good small sharpener to put a razor sharp edge on fast that I also carry daily in the GHB, is a Lansky Dogbone.
> 
> Lansky Products - KnifeCenter


I really should invest in a Spyderco. I have tried all the rest but never Spyderco.


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## jimb1972

Nathan Jefferson said:


> Want a new knife that is fun?
> 
> Spyderco Delica with emerson wave!
> 
> Or what is one of the best deals out there, designed by Rick Hinderer.
> 
> Kershaw Cryo


That Kershaw looks OK, for a while there they were putting a recurve blade on everything that made it a bitch to sharpen on a stone. I refuse to buy any of the goofy angled blades out there as they are not as easy to maintain an edge on and I don't want to learn any new sharpening techniques. This is what I carry, discontinued but a great knife with a tough blade that sharpens nice and holds an edge well enough.http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l180/pict/170741339064_3.jpg


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## Mule13

lol and this si what happens when you ask what the best knife on a forum. oh and mean green back in the 80's i had on of the navy issued kabars with the built in sharpener. i dont remember it sharpening very much at all. as for a pocket knife, alot of the mention ones above are all really good knives. companies like spyderco and benchmade make good knives using good steel. in iraq they were issuing the benchmade knives. i'm 5'9" about 165 lbs they were to big for me to carry. for a pocket knife i want something smaller.
Honestly right now i got to the auto parts store and get a 13$ lockblade and carry it.i have alot of knives both hand made and store bought of all sorts.truely there is no perfect knife.but a knife is the perfect tool . i left a crawford casper i paid over 100$ for laying on a trailer and drove off and lost it. thats when i went to the parts store and got a 13$ knife. their main problem is the little screws backing out. but ive had hat happen with high dollar knives too. get some red thread lock and take them out and apply it then retighten and your good.


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## Meangreen

jimb1972 said:


> That Kershaw looks OK, for a while there they were putting a recurve blade on everything that made it a bitch to sharpen on a stone. I refuse to buy any of the goofy angled blades out there as they are not as easy to maintain an edge on and I don't want to learn any new sharpening techniques. This is what I carry, discontinued but a great knife with a tough blade that sharpens nice and holds an edge well enough.http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l180/pict/170741339064_3.jpg


I totally agree, if I can't easily sharpen it on a stone, I'm not interested.


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## Nathan Jefferson

Meangreen said:


> I really should invest in a Spyderco. I have tried all the rest but never Spyderco.


They are just about the best bang for your buck all around - and for an internet forum I'd bet most people would agree. There are many better blades out there, but you end up paying more and more for diminishing returns.

I'm just really partial to the emerson wave feature on them.


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## PaulS

My next knife will be one that I make (when I get that shop done). It will be a Damascus blade using 25 folds of M2 and BG42. They are relatively easy to find in scrap bins and together they make a blade that is tough as 440 stainless but 20 to 25 points harder. Once sharpened and polished a good coating of carbonized oil will keep them from rusting and give an edge that will last a very long time. They can be kept sharp with the use of a ceramic rod to keep them honed. If you wear the edge off you will have to work hard to put it back on but it is worth it to me to have a knife that can skin and gut several deer before it needs to be touched up. I gave mine to my brother when he moved into the mountains.


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## Prepadoodle

I see the basic tradeoff here as sharpness vs durability. A fighting blade's edge would normally be a super-thin burr that is refined with a strop, but this edge won't last long. A working edge is less sharp, but longer lasting. It all comes down to edge geometry.

With hardness, the trade off is hardness vs brittleness. Harder blades are more durable but also more prone to chipping or breaking. Softer materials don't hold an edge as well, but are less prone to breaking.

Some blade makers basically case harden the blade or selectively harden just the edge. This can produce a "best of both worlds" tool which has a hard durable edge that is backed up by a more flexible ductile substrate. Damascus-type blades usually use alternating layers of soft and harder materials to effectively produce the same results.

The choice of the "best" steel, geometry, and sharpening technique really depends on the intended use.


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## machinejjh

Just watched a great documentary about crucible steel on Netflix. Check it out if that interests you. "Secrets of the Viking Sword"


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## Smitty901

jimb1972 said:


> That Kershaw looks OK, for a while there they were putting a recurve blade on everything that made it a bitch to sharpen on a stone. I refuse to buy any of the goofy angled blades out there as they are not as easy to maintain an edge on and I don't want to learn any new sharpening techniques. This is what I carry, discontinued but a great knife with a tough blade that sharpens nice and holds an edge well enough.http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l180/pict/170741339064_3.jpg


 Tend to agree I just do not need a knife with fancy shaped blades.


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## Boss Dog

machinejjh said:


> Just watched a great documentary about crucible steel on Netflix. Check it out if that interests you. "Secrets of the Viking Sword"


I saw that on PBS one night not too long ago, excellent show.


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## Gunner's Mate

I have a couple of knives made from D-2 tool steel which is a versatile high-carbon, high-chromium, air-hardening tool steel that is characterized by a relatively high attainable hardness and numerous, large, chromium rich alloy carbides in the microstructure. These carbides provide good resistance to wear from sliding contact with other metals and abrasive materials. Although other steels with improved toughness or improved wear resistance are available, D-2 provides an effective combination of wear resistance and toughness, tool performance, price, and a wide variety of product forms. 

It holds an edge really well / sharping takes a little more attention but the retention is really good


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## Gunner's Mate

Benchmade Mchenry & Williams Axis Plain Edge D2 Blade Folding about 150.00 its a folder
CANAL STREET CUTLERY CO.™ Chestnut Lock Back 1/400 Pocket Knife about 70.00 folder beautiful knife d2 steel


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## Gunner's Mate

Fixed Blade Ka BAr d2 extreme


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## Verteidiger

As to whether SEALs carry SOG knives, here is a book written by a SEAL Lieutenant Commander one might consider reading, since I always consider the source when taking advice from anyone:

Navy SEAL Rorke Denver: I Carried SOG Knives | The Truth About Knives

Note his preference for fixed blades versus folders....

Respectfully, I have personally seen and read the results of the field trials and equipment testing results conducted by the SEALs when they selected the SOG SEAL Team fixed blade knife. It was the only knife to pass every testing parameter. I will try and find it again and post it here for the edification of our forum membership....

BRB....

-- Vert


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## Seneca

Meangreen said:


> I really just need a really sharp pocket knife that I can sharpen back up with a few strokes on a stone. I do own some pretty impressive knives including a Ka-Bar I have had since I was 17. I tried carrying it on my duty belt but the politically correct police made me take it off.


Case makes a good pocket knife, I like their chrome vanadium steel blades. They sharpen easily and will hold an edge, I've yet to get a bad Case knive and I have a few. Case make so many different styles of pocket knives that you would be hard pressed to not find one that would meet your needs and suit your taste.


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## Verteidiger

Well, I searched around a lot and could not find the testing results. The test trials were conducted in 2000 and I found multiple references to the test criteria, and the fact that the SOG knife passed all the tests and was approved, but not the actual test. 

Since MeanGreen wants a folder, it is not really all that important. I really like my SOG SEAL knives, but I am just some random dude on the Internet, so feel free to buy whatever blows your whistle....

MeanGreen, for a folder I also like the SOG Pentagon Elite Spearpoint, but I am not sure anyone in the Pentagon, much less anyone Elite, actually carries one or has escaped from behind enemy lines by using one -- but I do know it is a very nice knife, and you might want to look at it before you make a final decision.

-- Vert (the only thing I am Elite at is making BBQ chicken...).


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## bigdogbuc

The only knife I have ever owned that remained, and still remains razor sharp, was ceramic. It's one of those "Yoshi" knives or whatever it's called and I have had it for years and my children are less than kind to it. But obviously, ceramic has its limitations. :grin:


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## lgustavus81

Emerson Super Commander plain edge. My EDC knife. Backed up by my SOG Seal 2000. if steel isn't an option I have my Tacops


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