# Realistic defense after TSHTF



## PossumPie (Oct 2, 2014)

I was watching a show about Preppers (which made us all out to look like kooks) and I saw a family who it was very obvious they were extreme left-wing pacifists who "didn't believe in guns" They had a really good TSHTF setup, a great garden, canning and drying food, honey, etc. BUT their whole defensive plan was to "be nice" to any marauding hordes who wanted to take their stuff. They were adamant about not having any weapons and I found myself yelling at the TV. What world were they living in? Do people really think that if entire families are starving- even the kids, that "good" people are not going to turn to violence? They lived in a small town...IN town, and had neighbors all around. They said that they were friends with the neighbors, and that they would never hurt them. What they didn't seem to grasp is that the "friends" next door, once their kids were starving would beg for food, then take the food. One two, 10 families, how much food could you give out before you had none? I grew up on the out-skirts of Baltimore, my family is full of cops. My whole family works in law-enforcement and healthcare. We see every day what people do to each other in GOOD TIMES, and Katrina showed us what they do in bad. I'm not trying to bash anyone, but REALLY??? Just invite them to dinner? If anyone knows you have food and not starving like everyone else, being nice to the starving mobs won't be a good plan. Is it realistic? If anyone here also doesn't "believe" in guns could you help me understand? I'm curious...


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## Zed (Aug 14, 2014)

Sadly guns are not allowed in India..But still self defense is a must..
Are you going to let your kid-daughter and wife getting raped and at that time you teach non-violence and goodness to rapers!!
In reality..these people are like infectious disease...they need to die...and hopefully the pacifists will face the SHTF scenarios if the predictions i posted comes true..
Even without guns..i have plethora of devices for self-defense
Knives, Parangs, Bear repellant sprays (Against riot mobs), pepper sprays, stun guns, crossbows, bo-staff, spearheads etc...
I totally believe in helping neighbors in SHTF, but not on the cost of lives of my family members


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

There are two kinds of people in the world ........................... ah, you can finish it


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

PossumPie said:


> I was watching a show about Preppers (which made us all out to look like kooks) and I saw a family who it was very obvious they were extreme left-wing pacifists who "didn't believe in guns" They had a really good TSHTF setup, a great garden, canning and drying food, honey, etc. BUT their whole defensive plan was to "be nice" to any marauding hordes who wanted to take their stuff. They were adamant about not having any weapons and I found myself yelling at the TV. What world were they living in? Do people really think that if entire families are starving- even the kids, that "good" people are not going to turn to violence? They lived in a small town...IN town, and had neighbors all around. They said that they were friends with the neighbors, and that they would never hurt them. What they didn't seem to grasp is that the "friends" next door, once their kids were starving would beg for food, then take the food. One two, 10 families, how much food could you give out before you had none? I grew up on the out-skirts of Baltimore, my family is full of cops. My whole family works in law-enforcement and healthcare. We see every day what people do to each other in GOOD TIMES, and Katrina showed us what they do in bad. I'm not trying to bash anyone, but REALLY??? Just invite them to dinner? If anyone knows you have food and not starving like everyone else, being nice to the starving mobs won't be a good plan. Is it realistic? If anyone here also doesn't "believe" in guns could you help me understand? I'm curious...


It seems to me that the non-violent types either have absolutely nothing that anyone else wants, or have to rely on others to protect them to survive. If the SHTF I think that their neighbors wouldn't wait until they were starving before taking everything these people have, I think that as soon as the neighbors realize that things weren't going back to normal for a long time if ever, and it occurs to them that they might run low on supplies, they would be helping themselves to whatever the fools have, even their house if someone likes it better then their own.

Just a thought, do people who are non-violent and anti-weapons of any kind, call the police if someone breaks into their homes, knowing that if necessary the police would shoot and kill the intruder if it got that far? If so, isn't that sort of like saying "I don't have the balls to do it so I will just call someone else to do it for me"?


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

The best battles are won without a shot... 

But you have to be prepared to take it


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

There will always be those non-violent, "peace be to you" people, . . . 

There will always be those who say "touch my stuff and you die", . . . 

If there is going to be any "new" civilization after an EOTWAWKI event, . . . we will need both, . . . and many others in between. 

What we will not need is the marauding hordes, . . . hell bent on surviving at any and all costs. They will have their "Come to Jesus" moment, . . . either on their knees or in their graves. They will take advantage until they arrive at the wrong address, . . . end of story.

Keep your eyes open and your powder dry.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

To each his own. We all have to live with decisions we make. If they are content with their choice let them make it. I could not have some one with that philosophy in my survival group.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Camel923 said:


> To each his own. We all have to live with decisions we make. If they are content with their choice let them make it. I could not have some one with that philosophy in my survival group.


I agree, it's their choice. I just have a problem with those who proclaim that they are non-violent but if things go South they expect someone who will do violence if necessary to come and save their behinds. As I implied earlier, if you are non-violent, you should not call a Cop if you wake up in the middle of the night and find that someone has broken into your house, knowing that if necessary the Cop will use violence against the intruder if needed.


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## PossumPie (Oct 2, 2014)

I also have a problem with the people who say that they will kill anyone who comes within 1 mile of their home...the ones who seem to get pleasure from killing without consequences. BUT You have to be willing to protect yourself and your family. Be it with guns, knives, machete or whatever. I guess I am just REALLY having trouble getting inside someone's head who actually believes that in a life-or-death situation, everyone will hold hands and be kind to each other. Blows my mind...


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

While I understand your problem with people who say they will kill anyone who comes within a mile, where do you put the limit? When they are breaking down the door, and you have to damage your shelter? Twenty feet from the door if they appear to be violent? Twenty feet from the door, not giving a damn if they are violent or not? So you take out the first bad guy and the rest toss a Molotov cocktail your way, then what. So many scenarios to worry about.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

50 yards. Limit is what I can dash out, be something when I get there and dash back.
I want to say "if they got the sense to run..."
But then a yankee says "You can't let all them through on us!!!" and they be right.
I just don't know what will come or exactly what I will do, but I know what I can.

Canada is 13 million cradle babies that "cahn't e-mahgine how people enjoy living like that?"
Why would invaders fight 300 million for what's left of their myata ghetto when they can walk right up and run right over those folks on sheer numbers alone. We have 3 times the illegals, let alone muslims, to keep walking no matter how many shoot and displace them completely.
We are the meat wall between them and "life in detroit".

I think about that down here too....


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

If I can see hear or otherwise detect your presence you will be dealt with. I aint worried about the mobs one magazine and they are 30 memebers shorter its the...............


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## PossumPie (Oct 2, 2014)

I DON'T want to attract attention. If I happen to see a family stopped to drink out of my creek, then keep moving off my land, I'm not going to get out the fireworks and attract attention. Let them stop, drink, rest, then move on. If they approach the house, I come out with the BIGGEST gun I have, say, "Sorry, we all are sick with the typhoid, don't get too close, please keep moving, and deal with their actions after that. If they keep approaching, they will end up fertilizing my garden. If they take the hint, no ammo lost.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Call me crazy but I'd love to be surrounded by folks like you reference! No threat of violence and they'd make great a great "canary in the coal mine"


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

PossumPie said:


> I was watching a show about Preppers (which made us all out to look like kooks) and I saw a family who it was very obvious they were extreme left-wing pacifists who "didn't believe in guns" They had a really good TSHTF setup, a great garden, canning and drying food, honey, etc. BUT their whole defensive plan was to "be nice" to any marauding hordes who wanted to take their stuff. They were adamant about not having any weapons and I found myself yelling at the TV. What world were they living in? Do people really think that if entire families are starving- even the kids, that "good" people are not going to turn to violence? They lived in a small town...IN town, and had neighbors all around. They said that they were friends with the neighbors, and that they would never hurt them. What they didn't seem to grasp is that the "friends" next door, once their kids were starving would beg for food, then take the food. One two, 10 families, how much food could you give out before you had none? I grew up on the out-skirts of Baltimore, my family is full of cops. My whole family works in law-enforcement and healthcare. We see every day what people do to each other in GOOD TIMES, and Katrina showed us what they do in bad. I'm not trying to bash anyone, but REALLY??? Just invite them to dinner? If anyone knows you have food and not starving like everyone else, being nice to the starving mobs won't be a good plan. Is it realistic? If anyone here also doesn't "believe" in guns could you help me understand? I'm curious...


Seems to me they just made themselves a nice target.


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## mcangus (Jun 3, 2014)

There really is no debate or discussion, they will be in trouble. Even if not killed immediately, they may have to abandon their home immediately without supplies. Perhaps even enslaved, since they no how to work the land and are pacifists. Come to think of it, I think in a complete SHTF, we may see slavery again. These raiders, marauders, whatever you call them probably won't be the dumbest people in the world if they survive for awhile. They may seen the benefits of not just looting and moving on.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

I think i would just want to be left alone. Anyone telling me that i must do something or else will be a problem to deal with. Anyone demandimg anything from me or my family will be dealt with. Stay the heck away from me unless i know you and even then if you know me then be prepared to barter or be turned away unless yoir a good friend that i knkw will contribute. I like the idea of claiming illness. But my first counter thought is they will keep checking back for your expiration so they can take your stuff. When they figure out you lied they will start to plot. Live and let live and dont interfere with good people trying to do right and not going on the attack to find stuff.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

I think that there are going to be so many different scenarios that play out, that we will simply have to take each one as it comes. In every one though -- being vigilant is the order of the day. Don't let your guard down. As Ronaldo Maximus once said .... "trust but verify"


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I live in an area where non-violence is quite a different situation.

We have in our region an "echo-village" filled full of (no other word describes them as well) "hippies" who are experts in sustainable living, organic farming, solar and wind power, earth-shelter building, and a ton of other skills that would be invaluable post SHTF. About 1/3 of our community is Mennonites, who are non-violent... and (depending on which county you are in) up to 10 percent are Amish). The Amish still do things the OLD way, horse and buggy, horse drawn plows, harvesting by hand, etc... 

These folks are an invaluable resource and need to be protected, but they won't fight... so we, as a region, need to protect them not only because maintaining civil calm is the right thing to do, but also because they are the folks that can teach us how to live well in a grid-down situation.


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## Wise Prepper (Oct 2, 2014)

You know what they say about stupid people, they're to stupid to know they're stupid.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

PossumPie said:


> I was watching a show about Preppers (which made us all out to look like kooks) and I saw a family who it was very obvious they were extreme left-wing pacifists who "didn't believe in guns" They had a really good TSHTF setup, a great garden, canning and drying food, honey, etc. BUT their whole defensive plan was to "be nice" to any marauding hordes who wanted to take their stuff. They were adamant about not having any weapons and I found myself yelling at the TV. What world were they living in? Do people really think that if entire families are starving- even the kids, that "good" people are not going to turn to violence? They lived in a small town...IN town, and had neighbors all around. They said that they were friends with the neighbors, and that they would never hurt them. What they didn't seem to grasp is that the "friends" next door, once their kids were starving would beg for food, then take the food. One two, 10 families, how much food could you give out before you had none? I grew up on the out-skirts of Baltimore, my family is full of cops. My whole family works in law-enforcement and healthcare. We see every day what people do to each other in GOOD TIMES, and Katrina showed us what they do in bad. I'm not trying to bash anyone, but REALLY??? Just invite them to dinner? If anyone knows you have food and not starving like everyone else, being nice to the starving mobs won't be a good plan. Is it realistic? If anyone here also doesn't "believe" in guns could you help me understand? I'm curious...


Sounds like a bunch of left wing dope smoking hippies.


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## PossumPie (Oct 2, 2014)

I live near many Mennonites and Amish. In college, (I went to a Christian College) We would debate pacifism. I just could not understand how they could claim that they would not fight or protect their wives or kids. Prayer is good, but a gun and prayer is better. I agree that perhaps I would barter protecting them for their skills, but I'm not so sure they would allow my guns to be on their property, to that is a BIG problem right there in helping them. I know the Bible is full of good Christian people who killed their enemies...heck Jesus got angry and threw over the money changers tables.


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## catfisherman (Jun 9, 2014)

That's all good to help your neighbor , friends , family etc. but to be an idiot with no defense is comical . Whats worse is they went on television letting it be known they wont shoot and that they have a good thing going . To me that says "come and get it" . 

Lucky for me and my family we can survive a long time off our skills and other means , we wont need to go attack the peace loving tree huggers , and by the time we did someone has surely already done it .

I saw an episode on television of a group prepping to take others stuff , that was their prep . Bullet proof and hell bent on wacking folks for their goods .


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

catfisherman said:


> That's all good to help your neighbor , friends , family etc. but to be an idiot with no defense is comical . Whats worse is they went on television letting it be known they wont shoot and that they have a good thing going . To me that says "come and get it".


There are definitely those will will take it, and I agree that they are being woefully ignorant if they suppose anything to the contrary. Personally, I won't be that person; we've all discussed at length how we would treat a WROL scenario, and while we will put defense of our own first and foremost, we also won't be offensive towards those who have not been so first. If we came across these folks, we would be happy to trade with them and move on. They may be idiots in some ways but I wouldn't take advantage of that; I also wouldn't want to stick around and put our own in danger because of them.

If they survive, I offer them my respect. I don't think they have a complete plan for making it through anything extreme, but who's to say until it actually happens.


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## catfisherman (Jun 9, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> but who's to say until it actually happens.


That is what I say a lot . No one knows truly what they will do until they are actually put in the real situation .


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

This is a point I've tried to make often- spend time thinking about it BEFORE shtf happens. By the time you figure out what you're willing to do to save you and yours, you'll be dead and the attacking force will be back home enjoying your snacks.

Personally, I don't intend to go out looking for targets unless it's an emergency situation. At that point I will do what I must to survive and cry a few tears later. Sad situation, but survival has always been my favorite passtime.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I'm fortunately not in one of my moods to start another thread on Violence. I will soon anyways though. But see, here we have a wealth of folks who have had to make those decisions and do know what they will do. For me there is no scenario no time or place that I will not act accordingly. Its natural.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If you live on acrage and your house/home is a mile inside your property lines then it seems justified to stop any trespassers headed for your home. (assuming a SHTF scenario)


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

PaulS said:


> If you live on acrage and your house/home is a mile inside your property lines then it seems justified to stop any trespassers headed for your home. (assuming a SHTF scenario)


If armageddon has a "you're not doing starving plague savages at war right" department, you should get the job.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Assuming yall watch way too many futuristic end of the world sci-fi movies. We are not appointed to wrath. Let us check our hole card.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Yeah I watch doomsday prepper as well (season 2 has just started on free to air) 

But let's summerize... Its funny as, 1 idiot blew off his finger, another used home made pipe bombs on national TV (that's illegal here, and I bet in the USA too) 

The hippie in the missile silo, "that can survive a direct nuclear attack"

Needed a "aura doctor" or some shit, funny
As, A hippie prepper, I bet inor was pulling out his ar and took carful aim at the TV (OK his nerf gun as all his real firearms were lost in a freak boating accident.. You would think he would have learnt..) 

Some concepts of the show is interesting but the miss use of key items really bug me (cammo netting, the grille suits etc) 

But funny as the 1st EPP of season 2 the"diabetic prepper" showed off on TV, a mouthie teenage girl... And a devorse lmao drama sells


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I don't have TV in my home. We have radio, computers, a darn FARM (that is a 4 letter word that starts with F) and a shop that needs to get finished so I can do some of the jobs that I keep coming up with.

I don't have time for nonsensical people, whether they are on TV or visiting. I am the only fool I tolerate!


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## Go2ndAmend (Apr 5, 2013)

While I in some way admire their belief system, in reality, it is completely wrong. I do not agree that no one really knows what would happen to the pacifists until a SHTF situation. I can guarantee you that they will suffer a horrible and violent end. Their belief system is not something they will live with, it is something they will die with.


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## Zed (Aug 14, 2014)

catfisherman said:


> I saw an episode on television of a group prepping to take others stuff , that was their prep . Bullet proof and hell bent on wacking folks for their goods .


Then i would proudly castrate the fools and pike their skulls on the village boundry


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

paraquack said:


> While I understand your problem with people who say they will kill anyone who comes within a mile, where do you put the limit? When they are breaking down the door, and you have to damage your shelter? Twenty feet from the door if they appear to be violent? Twenty feet from the door, not giving a damn if they are violent or not? So you take out the first bad guy and the rest toss a Molotov cocktail your way, then what. So many scenarios to worry about.


Thank you for writing something that was on my mind. There are many different situations that I may have to contend with. And, what was bothering me is how will i know what to do. I feel that i have an answer but wanted to run it past you guys.

I decided that the key to knowing what to do is stay 'focused and reasonable' What i mean by that is quite simple. My main focus is my family's safety. It is reasonable to assume that a mob walking down the street is headed somewhere else. I don't want to pick a fight.

However, it is not reasonable to assume that a lit molotov is not going to get thrown at a large arbitrary object like my house. Action needs to be taken.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> Thank you for writing something that was on my mind. There are many different situations that I may have to contend with. And, what was bothering me is how will i know what to do. I feel that i have an answer but wanted to run it past you guys.
> 
> I decided that the key to knowing what to do is stay 'focused and reasonable' What i mean by that is quite simple. My main focus is my family's safety. It is reasonable to assume that a mob walking down the street is headed somewhere else. I don't want to pick a fight.
> 
> However, it is not reasonable to assume that a lit molotov is not going to get thrown at a large arbitrary object like my house. Action needs to be taken.


That's actually deep into our (OK the Australian) legal system

What's reasonable?? Lol, its in the eyes of the person at the time, I believe its perfectly reasonable to kill you and put your head on a pike if I walk in on you raping my Mrs, but the bulk of the population will find that disterbing Lol


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

PS a example


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## PossumPie (Oct 2, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> That's actually deep into our (OK the Australian) legal system
> 
> What's reasonable?? Lol, its in the eyes of the person at the time, I believe its perfectly reasonable to kill you and put your head on a pike if I walk in on you raping my Mrs, but the bulk of the population will find that disterbing Lol


Disturbing, but they'd leave you alone...


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Control your space.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I see nothing wrong in trying to be a good Christan person, but to think having no defense is in itself the best defense, I don't agree with. I could see these people being stripped, of everything they have by people not being so Christian. 
There is a difference between being a good hearted person and being an easy target for thugs, IMO.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

_I was watching a show about Preppers (which made us all out to look like kooks) and I saw a family who it was very obvious they were extreme left-wing pacifists who "didn't believe in guns"_

When the people who "don't believe in guns" meet people who "DO believe in guns", who wins? The people "who don't" are at the mercy of those "who do" and have to depend on their mercy and good intentions. Here is a real shock, there are people out there who are NOT good, do NOT have good intentions, and have little or no mercy to others, and if given a choice between them doing without or taking from you, you are screwed.

As for the question on another post of "reasonable" and "intentions", I suggest as far as reasonable goes, think about it ahead of time. It will depend on your individual situation. I think that if you live in the out in the country at the end of a long lane and see a large group of armed people walking down your lane, they are coming for YOU. Personally I would think about putting up signs at the end of the lane warning that if anyone proceed any further they will be shot, and if you spot a large armed group heading your way and ignoring the sign, well, the further away you engage the better. On the other hand what if it is a mix of men, women, and children with their hands in the air? What if it turns out to be your brother who lived 500 miles away with his family? Would you still want to shoot, or would you try to take them in?

IMO there is no quick and simple answer. The best way to prepare is try to think of as many situations that you can and try to decide how you would react in each situation. Stay flexible in your thinking.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Zed said:


> Then i would proudly castrate the fools and pike their skulls on the village boundry


If you are going to pike their skulls at the village boundary then castration seems like a wasted effort since removing their head would achieve the same result, either way it takes them out of the gene pool...just saying it seems like a duplication of effort.

Then again one mans castration is another mans beheading, I guess it depends on where you make the cut.


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## PossumPie (Oct 2, 2014)

I still like my plan...50 ft down my lane I'm putting signs "WARNING HEMORRHAGIC FEVER" another 50 ft another set of signs "Gowns gloves, masks beyond this point" In the front yard, some skeletons, an orange biohazard sticker on the door. If they still come and knock, some tomato sauce on the lips dripping down my chin and a hacking cough will greet them, along with my AR 15...


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Add an official looking quarantine sticker to the door and make it look like a seal and you just broke the seal to answer the door, cough into your hand and offer to shake theirs. Tell them you are so glad to see them and ask them if they have any food because you haven't eaten in days and invite them in.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

PossumPie said:


> I still like my plan...50 ft down my lane I'm putting signs "WARNING HEMORRHAGIC FEVER" another 50 ft another set of signs "Gowns gloves, masks beyond this point" In the front yard, some skeletons, an orange biohazard sticker on the door. If they still come and knock, some tomato sauce on the lips dripping down my chin and a hacking cough will greet them, along with my AR 15...


Oh, so no change from normal?


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## PossumPie (Oct 2, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Oh, so no change from normal?


lol... Well, right now I also have a door mat that says GO AWAY. Took some convincing of the wife to get that one. She also hates when I squirt whipped cream all around my mouth and open the door and just howl at whoever's there...UPS leaves all packages out in the middle of the driveway now.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You protect your ground. Go on the offense only when required to prevent being boxed in. You will not be facing hardened military troops. Give them a big enough black eye and they will seek softer targets. Do not seek conflict or more will find you . Deal with what you must.
Even when justified and 100% necessary there is no comfort in taking a life. Few if any of you will walk away from doing so unscarred.


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