# Urban Stealth...



## Dark Jester

For all those that have assessed their SHTF Plan and made the decision to hold their position in an urban setting instead of joining the hoards of ill-prepared, directionless and agitated slackers trying to flee on overcrowded highways, how are you prepared to operate in the urban jungle? 

More specifically, will you be able to navigate the streets without being an obvious target or will you hold tight in your position?
If you choose to move about the area, how will you be able to do so while retaining a low profile?

If you have a Plan B to move out, how long will/can you hold your urban position before mobilizing?


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## pheniox17

well what's your thoughts??

in the urban jungle, darkness is your friend, blending in helps, if it looks tacticool you will will be a target

and timing is key to everything.... bugging out is massive on the topic


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## Kauboy

You really only have two options if you choose to venture out.
Do it slowly, in the dark, alone...
or
Do it fast, whenever, with as many people as possible...
(both of those sound really naughty out of context)

Blending in is the key.
There will be tons of dunderheads meandering about, looking for anyone with a clue to tell them what they should do.
Don't be the one their looking for.
Slung firearms and loaded down backpacks will make you stand out like a candle in a cave.
Conceal what you have, both physically and mentally.
Learn to spot tails that might be following you, and learn how to double back or use difficult routes to lose them.
Avoiding being spotted is optimal, but it isn't a guarantee. If you are seen, be a worthless target.
If you are in a group, split up, but stay in visual range. The human eye is keen to spot patterns, so don't use "formations" that have symmetry of any kind. Be fluid.
Never let anyone follow you back to your place, EVER.

(Some of these lessons were learned from reading a real experience of a survivor of a natural disaster in Africa where S really did HTF, and all the bad stuff we think about really did happen. If I can find the story, I'll link it. It fits in perfect to this topic.)


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## Kauboy

Arklatex said:


> There was also another thread about a guys experience in eastern Europe. He advocated safety in numbers and strong defense.


I found the article, and that might be the one I'm thinking of. It was so long ago, I'd let some of the details slip.
He was in Bosnia, and between '92 and '95, the military had blockaded his town.
Here's a link to the story: One Year In Hell?Surviving a Full SHTF Collapse in Bosnia | SilverDoctors.com


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## pheniox17

Arklatex said:


> There was also another thread about a guys experience in eastern Europe. He advocated safety in numbers and strong defense.


you talking about year of hell??

he also advocated when in trade don't stand out and acting big and tough can and most likely get you killed


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## catfisherman

If you are in a city the time to get out would be when the shit first happens , most will be scrambling around wondering what to do , some will be looting etc. and others will be staying in themselves . Get out while supplies are still on the shelves , no one will be in dire need yet .

If you are going to hold up in a city , I would have my home/base camp set up like fort knox and one would have to have their shit together to stay in any city . Once the shelves are empty the city will turn into a bad place to be . You could only hope the citiots off themselves in record numbers before you had to resupply yourself . 

Just my thoughts .


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## pheniox17

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-talk/6432-year-hell.html


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## Notsoyoung

It seems to me that when going out your choices are to either try to keep a low profile and hope that no one notices you, or to look too dangerous to mess with and so they look for weaker victims. IMO the weak are the ones that are going to be hit on first. There will be some who will be more then willing to attack someone just for the hope of getting a bottle of water or to take their shoes. If they know that you are well armed and that if they attack you some of them are going to die, then they might just decided to find someone weaker.

I think that forming a group of well armed people would be your best bet. Either go that route or stay hidden so that no one knows that you are there. I don't think that trying to blend in with other people just wouldn't work. People are going to be super suspicious of everyone else and just might try to attack anyone that they think poses the smallest amount of danger and who are not part of their group. At any rate, trying to survive in an urban environment will pose some difficult problems.


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## nephilim

Point A, I can survive a month guaranteed on the preps I have.
Point B, I can forage for more and last a few extra weeks, so I give myself 8 weeks on my basic preps and foraging. 
Point C, I can hunt for rabbits, pigeon, pheasant, and deer, so I have no issue with meat, so lets say that is bringing me up to 12 weeks.

I am ok for a reasonable amount of time. I could last much much longer if I rationed everything to 1000 calories per person, in fact that would last double the length of time.


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## Dark Jester

Kauboy said:


> You really only have two options if you choose to venture out.
> Do it slowly, in the dark, alone...
> or
> Do it fast, whenever, with as many people as possible...
> (both of those sound really naughty out of context)
> 
> Blending in is the key.
> There will be tons of dunderheads meandering about, looking for anyone with a clue to tell them what they should do.
> Don't be the one their looking for.
> Slung firearms and loaded down backpacks will make you stand out like a candle in a cave.
> Conceal what you have, both physically and mentally.
> Learn to spot tails that might be following you, and learn how to double back or use difficult routes to lose them.
> Avoiding being spotted is optimal, but it isn't a guarantee. If you are seen, be a worthless target.
> If you are in a group, split up, but stay in visual range. The human eye is keen to spot patterns, so don't use "formations" that have symmetry of any kind. Be fluid.
> Never let anyone follow you back to your place, EVER.
> 
> (Some of these lessons were learned from reading a real experience of a survivor of a natural disaster in Africa where S really did HTF, and all the bad stuff we think about really did happen. If I can find the story, I'll link it. It fits in perfect to this topic.)


"Winner, winner, chicken dinner!"... Kauboy, I am with you.

Being in a group makes one more obvious. At some point, maybe later, I believe there will be a bigger and better prepared group and would avoid them as they may consider me a threat and confront me.

Kauboy had a good point about being non-descript, blending in; "be a worthless target" and "Conceal what you have, both physically and mentally". Nevertheless, I feel in the early stages most will be disorganized and few gangs will be out and about.

I disagree with catfisherman when he stated "If you are in a city the time to get out would be when the shit first happens, most will be scrambling around wondering what to do, some will be looting etc. and others will be staying in themselves".
The ones that are scrambling around and wondering what to do are the people I would try to avoid and it would be difficult to do so if you mobilized. You would be moving right through these knuckleheads that have flooded the streets and are looking for solutions to their problems. I don't want to be confronted by those that think I am their solution.


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## keith9365

Pretty much what was said above. Be the invisable man. If you go out like some mall ninja you will draw unwanted attention. Leave the underarmor tactical shirts, 511 tactical pants, and Oakly tactical boots at home. When I traveled over seas and stayed in country for a while I would buy some clothes from local stores. That didnt really help me to fit in in asia or the middle east but you get the idea. Try to look like joe ordinary.


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## Dark Jester

Two points come to mind in Notsoyoung's reply; 

1.) "IMO the weak are the ones that are going to be hit on first. There will be some who will be more than willing to attack someone just for the hope of getting a bottle of water or to take their shoes". I would say, don't make yourself appear as though you have something someone else wants. Dress and look like you are a step above a street person. You get ignored.

And 2.) "People are going to be super suspicious of everyone else and just might try to attack anyone that they think poses the smallest amount of danger and who are not part of their group". Again, I feel if you look like someone with nothing to offer, you may pass right by. If you show a weapon, maybe a small group wants it for someone in their group that needs one. You are then confronted by more than one armed individuals. What do you do?


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## Dark Jester

To address Nephilim's comments; 
"Point B, I can forage for more and last a few extra weeks, so I give myself 8 weeks on my basic preps and foraging.
Point C, I can hunt for rabbits, pigeon, pheasant, and deer, so I have no issue with meat, so lets say that is bringing me up to 12 weeks."

If someone is near a large urban area, say 2-3 million people, how long do you think the hunting option would work for you if a majority of the people have the same plan as you? Think about it this way, what if 300,000 people in your area went hunting the same day you did? How long would there be anything left?

Obviously, I don't know your situation, but wonder if others have thought about this potential issue...


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## mcangus

Kauboy said:


> I found the article, and that might be the one I'm thinking of. It was so long ago, I'd let some of the details slip.
> He was in Bosnia, and between '92 and '95, the military had blockaded his town.
> Here's a link to the story: One Year In Hell?Surviving a Full SHTF Collapse in Bosnia | SilverDoctors.com


Wow, great story. This is the type of stuff we need to be reading more often. People who did live through extremely hard times. If anyone else has a link to something like this, please share. Also note how this writer mentioned that many people died from infections, probably many were simple tiny infections in our minds. But without being treated properly, it can kill you.

quote from the article:

Many died from infections of superficial wounds. I had antibiotics for three to four uses - for the family, of course.

People died foolishly quite often. Simple diarrhea will kill you in a few days without medicine, with limited amounts of water.


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## nephilim

Dark Jester said:


> To address Nephilim's comments;
> "Point B, I can forage for more and last a few extra weeks, so I give myself 8 weeks on my basic preps and foraging.
> Point C, I can hunt for rabbits, pigeon, pheasant, and deer, so I have no issue with meat, so lets say that is bringing me up to 12 weeks."
> 
> If someone is near a large urban area, say 2-3 million people, how long do you think the hunting option would work for you if a majority of the people have the same plan as you? Think about it this way, what if 300,000 people in your area went hunting the same day you did? How long would there be anything left?
> 
> Obviously, I don't know your situation, but wonder if others have thought about this potential issue...


Population where I am is around 60k. Of this less than 1000 are registered gun owners (I'd put it closer to 5000 if you count illegal guns). Of these I'd say most would end up killing each other. Also I am on the fringe of the town, and not many people venture out of the town. Wouldn't take long for most to die off.


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## Will2

Notsoyoung said:


> It seems to me that when going out your choices are to either try to keep a low profile and hope that no one notices you, or to look too dangerous to mess with and so they look for weaker victims. IMO the weak are the ones that are going to be hit on first. There will be some who will be more then willing to attack someone just for the hope of getting a bottle of water or to take their shoes. If they know that you are well armed and that if they attack you some of them are going to die, then they might just decided to find someone weaker.
> 
> I think that forming a group of well armed people would be your best bet. Either go that route or stay hidden so that no one knows that you are there. I don't think that trying to blend in with other people just wouldn't work. People are going to be super suspicious of everyone else and just might try to attack anyone that they think poses the smallest amount of danger and who are not part of their group. At any rate, trying to survive in an urban environment will pose some difficult problems.


I dunno, if they can see you they can kill you.

I can't really imagine what it would be like in America other than china towns and otherwise, as if we draw comparisons to the middle east and Russia I don't think things will divide on the basis of weak and strong but rather cultural divisions. For instance in the US some may fall back to racial divisions.

IMO most HQs would be linked to sky scrappers due to sniping potentials it would all be line of sight for zones of control. Of course large buildings will need large amounts of security .. major buildings will probably be controlled by the government regardless. I'm not really sure what type of scenario you are invisioning though. Even in WROL I think that the gov will still have a strong presence in major financial districts.


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## Dark Jester

Nephilim, you are only 30 miles north of London, a city with an official population of 8,308,369 in 2012 making it the most populous municipality in the European Union. How long would it take for a large number of these people to head to your area in search of resources?

The locals would kill each other off? What about you? What about all the Londoners coming to your town? Do they have firearms?

My intention is not to be argumentative, but it was a scenario I had to consider in my plan. I live in Texas just outside a major metropolitan area and was shown a credible projection of how long our wildlife and crops would last if a large part of the population decided to venture out for "groceries"... not long.

Plus how many of you have had a successful hunting trip with a crowd of people wandering around in your hunting area?


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## Dark Jester

Will stated, 
"Even in WROL I think that the gov will still have a strong presence in major financial districts".
Sure, they may have the resources to control the important infrastructure, but what about the neighborhoods and the suburbs of that city?


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## bigdogbuc

Pheniox said darkness is your friend. I agree. It is the best time to move. I also saw an episode of, eek, Doomsday Preppers, the guy that made the spider holes, and I have to agree with his philosophy, though I'm not sure how I would react to it; If they want your place, let them take it. Then come back and pick them off one or two at a time until the place just isn't that appealing anymore.

The other option is make as impressive a stand as you can make, to coax folks to just move along. Urban is tough and I would stay put as long as possible to allow them to weed themselves out a little bit.


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## nephilim

Dark Jester said:


> Nephilim, you are only 30 miles north of London, a city with an official population of 8,308,369 in 2012 making it the most populous municipality in the European Union. How long would it take for a large number of these people to head to your area in search of resources?
> 
> The locals would kill each other off? What about you? What about all the Londoners coming to your town? Do they have firearms?
> 
> My intention is not to be argumentative, but it was a scenario I had to consider in my plan. I live in Texas just outside a major metropolitan area and was shown a credible projection of how long our wildlife and crops would last if a large part of the population decided to venture out for "groceries"... not long.
> 
> Plus how many of you have had a successful hunting trip with a crowd of people wandering around in your hunting area?


Good points. However the only people insane enough to head north would be foreigners. Any British person worth their salt knows the best farmland and hunting grounds are south of London in Kent, Sussex and the West Country (and Wales).

Yes again for hunting I see your point. However pigeons are plentiful as are squirrels and both frequently my gardens often enough for me to make a meal of them. Deer would be harder with more people around I grant you.

A local government party did similar projections for here and supplies would last around a month or so if people razed the land and raided the shops. Then they'd be forced to go to the coast for easier fishing etc.

Londoners coming up would be scary but I could hold out. I have several thousand rounds in .22 calibre including hollowpoint and I have reasonably good aim up to 50 yards (far enough to ensure nobody gets close) plus I have around 200 arrows for my bow and can always make more if needed.

Not saying I would be chuck norris or anything but I could defend myself and family and hold our own.


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## Kauboy

Don't forget the rat population!
It will explode when bodies begin to pile up.
They could make a hasty tasty meal if necessary.


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## Dark Jester

Kauboy said:


> Don't forget the rat population!
> It will explode when bodies begin to pile up.
> They could make a hasty tasty meal if necessary.


Ahhhh... roasted rat tacos. My favorite.


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## Smokin04

In urban warfare, as a general rule, the high ground with the highest visibility is regarded as key terrain. But as mentioned...tougher to defend. That being said, in a large metropolitan area, almost every building can/will be scavenged for resources rather quickly once the restaraunts and chains (Wally world, Rite-aid, McDonalds, etc) dry up. Movement of 8+ million people would be noticable regardless of time of day. Even if 3/4ths of the inhabitants left the city, died, etc... There is still 2+million people around. Someone will see you. That being said...

Night time tactically makes the most sense in which to operate, provided the others operating at the same time (which will be more than you think) are less equipped than you. Forget about moving alone...ever. You will not succeed if stealth is your objective. (See above population reference) However, if you are better equipped and make better tactical decisions, you will succeed far more than untrained people. All of your movements need to have a purpose. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you scavenging food, medicine, water? Where are those resources? How far do you have to move? What do you have to carry to ensure mission completion? How many people are coming with you? What is their tactical ability or training level? How do they react to gunfights? Sensitive situations? How long will the mission take? What routes (and alternate routes) are you taking to get there? Do you have comm? Etc. Without these questions being addressed, I will NOT move from my security when my life, or the lives of my team could be put in jeopardy. It all comes down to risk management. 

Plan B...moving out? See above. All decisions are scrubbed the same way. You MUST have an objective...without it, there is no mission, and you've already failed.


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## Guest

"all war is deception"..

Stage one: consolidate position at home. create a killing zone by sealing off all entrances besides one. I choose my apartment on the second story for more safety in this aspect. It has great field of view and it is stone on the outside...the entrance door is at the bottom floor you must go up a flight of stairs before reaching living space..the killing zone I am referring too. everything would be sealed and a second door placed on the stairs leading up to the living space would be constructed from plywood and sheet metal. razor wire and nail traps would be in the space between doors. broken glass would be glued to the window exterior. my metal covered wooden window covers have a slot to open and observe if need be. 

Stage two: total silence and remain unseen in the daytime. what you cannot see you cannot study. This would remain in effect for me until the most satisfactory time to start scouting..when most of the crazies flee the city. 

stage three: I would scout at night and forage for water/food at night. 

Stage Four: whatever the scouting tells me would generate the final decision of stay or go. at this point the real hardship begins and the skills and instinct determine my fate. 

Note: this is my plan B of course, plan A is to be able to beat most of the fleeing houstonians..also why i am on the outskirts of the city.


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## Old SF Guy

ALot of good sound strategies here. What I didn't see was what happens when someone sees you and tracks you back to your abode. Then waits for the next time you leave to scavage what you have inside your home. Who is left at home to defend and what are your methods for re-entry of friendly lines. Many in the military know that re-entry into lines are very dangerous because you risk getting shot by your own folks. Having it too loose or fly by wire and someone could easily surprise those left in the home. Remember there is only a few paths away from your home....eventually someone will see you coming or going or you will leave trails (think snow). WHatever you decide to do, develop a good plan for departing friendly lines and re-entering them and signals to show that the area has not been compromised. And change those up ever so often at random intervals.


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## Smokin04

I'd factor that in Mike...you know that. Someone (or a crew) has to watch the casa. Does no good to gather resources if you have no base to bring it back to. The security of your sanctuary is PARAMOUNT.


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## Smokin04

Arklatex said:


> You could also bug out to the country now and avoid the Lions share of problems.


Agreed...but you still have to maneuver through the city to the outskirts...and then the country. It may not be easy...thus planning is crucial.


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## Guest

Old SF Guy said:


> ALot of good sound strategies here. What I didn't see was what happens when someone sees you and tracks you back to your abode. Then waits for the next time you leave to scavage what you have inside your home. Who is left at home to defend and what are your methods for re-entry of friendly lines. Many in the military know that re-entry into lines are very dangerous because you risk getting shot by your own folks. Having it too loose or fly by wire and someone could easily surprise those left in the home. Remember there is only a few paths away from your home....eventually someone will see you coming or going or you will leave trails (think snow). WHatever you decide to do, develop a good plan for departing friendly lines and re-entering them and signals to show that the area has not been compromised. And change those up ever so often at random intervals.


very good info..im not military so this mentality is most welcome.


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## Old SF Guy

nightshade said:


> very good info..im not military so this mentality is most welcome.


Yeah my near recognition signal is my wife yelling " I heard your fat ass trip over the mater plants you dumb ass...now get the hell up and get inside dammit!" That means its safe to enter. If I don't hear that... then I shoot everything in sight...because she must be dead already.


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## SquirrelBait

His name is Selco.


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## Hemi45

In all honesty (or as much as y'all can bear to admit) how many really think you'll survive "Apocalypse X"? It's great to have a place to go and a plan to get there but for all the bravado I read on the subject (and I disparage no one in particular with that statement) do most people really think they're so squared away that they'll prevail? 

I ask this because I don't know if I will or won't. All I can do is try my best and work within the limitations of whatever flaming bag of dog crap lands on my porch. I fully appreciate the importance of mindset and will to win but no matter who you are or how good you (think you) are there's always someone better, right?

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket with this post, just realistic and sincerely curious.


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## Old SF Guy

Hemi45 said:


> In all honesty (or as much as y'all can bear to admit) how many really think you'll survive "Apocalypse X"? It's great to have a place to go and a plan to get there but for all the bravado I read on the subject (and I disparage no one in particular with that statement) do most people really think they're so squared away that they'll prevail?
> 
> I ask this because I don't know if I will or won't. All I can do is try my best and work within the limitations of whatever flaming bag of dog crap lands on my porch. I fully appreciate the importance of mindset and will to win but no matter who you are or how good you (think you) are there's always someone better, right?
> I'm not trying to be a wet blanket with this post, just realistic and sincerely curious.


Damn Hemi...naw you sound like you don't think even your own plan will make it. I say prepare in the best way you can...and for me thats spiritual too so that if the hammer drops and this OSFG gets the big drum role...well all is well I prepped for that too. short of that I'm scratching and biting my way through life......


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## pheniox17

Hemi45 said:


> In all honesty (or as much as y'all can bear to admit) how many really think you'll survive "Apocalypse X"? It's great to have a place to go and a plan to get there but for all the bravado I read on the subject (and I disparage no one in particular with that statement) do most people really think they're so squared away that they'll prevail?
> 
> I ask this because I don't know if I will or won't. All I can do is try my best and work within the limitations of whatever flaming bag of dog crap lands on my porch. I fully appreciate the importance of mindset and will to win but no matter who you are or how good you (think you) are there's always someone better, right?
> 
> I'm not trying to be a wet blanket with this post, just realistic and sincerely curious.


hey I bet out of this forum alone maybe 5% will survive

but the first rule of survival is the will to survive

optimistic approaches and "wet blankets" are needed in our discussions, how else can we refine our knowledge and our plans to increase our chances from 5% to 100% ?? this is what life is all about

thanks for the post


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## Dark Jester

Okay, Hemi45, where do you think you would be if you didn't even try? Being prepared does not mean your only goal is to live through a nuclear holocaust. It also means being prepared enough to make it safely home during an event such as this last winter's ice storm around Atlanta.
Had those people been prepared, they would have fared much better. Instead, they were stuck in their cars to keep warm (until they ran out of gas). What then?
What about the idiots in New Orleans after Katrina? Many probably couldn't spell Preparedness, let alone implement the simplest of plans. And look what happened to them. If you were there in New Orleans after Katrina, how would you handle the situation if you were not prepared?
The aftermath of Katrina is also a good example of the problems of holding tight or mobilizing with sufficient provisions; timing is everything...


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## Arizona Infidel

Smokin04 said:


> Agreed...but you still have to maneuver through the city to the outskirts...and then the country. It may not be easy...thus planning is crucial.


I think you misunderstood what he said. He said bug out NOW. as in NOW. Move out of the city into the country. Do it NOW. Before SHTF.


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## Guest

Old SF Guy said:


> Yeah my near recognition signal is my wife yelling " I heard your fat ass trip over the mater plants you dumb ass...now get the hell up and get inside dammit!" That means its safe to enter. If I don't here that then I shoot everything in sight...because she must be dead already.


lmao i hear you on that. u know I've been thinking more on the scouting..maybe it would be wise to act as if you are scouting late a night and not wanting to be seen just like before, but instead of leaving the premises do a stake out of your own place on the outside just to see who if anyone is watching your place...so if like you said someone is trying to steal your stuff while ur gone then you catch them and eliminate the threat.


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## Dark Jester

nightshade said:


> ...but instead of leaving the premises do a stake out of your own place on the outside just to see who if anyone is watching your place...so if like you said someone is trying to steal your stuff while ur gone then you catch them and eliminate the threat.


That is why military units always have someone on watch. 
Even in garrison, someone is watching out for the unit while the unit is eating, sleeping or occupied with other tasks.


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## Hemi45

DJ, you bring up a great point! Living in South Florida, I'm better prepared than most people in the nation. Hell, I'm better prepared than most folks in my community. Getting through a "life interruption" shouldn't be a problem, even if it lasted several weeks. Sometimes I take too long of a view and my mind wanders into the "what if's" of a JWR novel.

Looking back, that was what prompted my post. In reality, the most realistic threats my family will face - we can handle. I need to remember to keep it simple!

Thanks for the reality check, amigo!


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## Guest

Dark Jester said:


> That is why military units always have someone on watch.
> Even in garrison, someone is watching out for the unit while the unit is eating, sleeping or occupied with other tasks.


yeah it would be like a tense armistice permanently so a constant watch would be a necessity. problem is in my situation I would not want my girl to even be on watch because it would put her in danger..id have trouble even leaving her alone in a warzone. we would most likely move together in scouting ect..this discussion brings a lot of troubles to mind. for one in a city as large as Houston my friends are so spread out that I wouldn't have safety in numbers..it is pretty much me and her if things get bad quickly.


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## Dark Jester

"...this discussion brings a lot of troubles to mind. for one in a city as large as Houston my friends are so spread out that I wouldn't have safety in numbers..it is pretty much me and her if things get bad quickly".

A very good reason to have an interim plan; e.g., group members meet at rally point and make adjustments. 
It may be at the most centrally located home/location. At least you have someone to cover your 6.


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## Old SF Guy

nightshade said:


> yeah it would be like a tense armistice permanently so a constant watch would be a necessity. problem is in my situation I would not want my girl to even be on watch because it would put her in danger..id have trouble even leaving her alone in a warzone. we would most likely move together in scouting ect..this discussion brings a lot of troubles to mind. for one in a city as large as Houston my friends are so spread out that I wouldn't have safety in numbers..it is pretty much me and her if things get bad quickly.


I will say this...never travel with your loved one if your not willing to put a bullet through her brain to save her from a worse fate. Be the dumb ass that says that will never happen...cause it can...be prepared. Leave them at home unless you are leaving for good and even then give them the means to end it all and instill the will to do it.


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## Dark Jester

Old SF Guy said:


> I will say this...never travel with your loved one if your not willing to put a bullet through her brain to save her from a worse fate. Be the dumb ass that says that will never happen...cause it can...be prepared. Leave them at home unless you are leaving for good and even then give them the means to end it all and instill the will to do it.










Huh?


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## Guest

Dark Jester said:


> "...this discussion brings a lot of troubles to mind. for one in a city as large as Houston my friends are so spread out that I wouldn't have safety in numbers..it is pretty much me and her if things get bad quickly".
> 
> A very good reason to have an interim plan; e.g., group members meet at rally point and make adjustments.
> It may be at the most centrally located home/location. At least you have someone to cover your 6.


good idea about meeting up..im the only guy who preps that i know personally ^^ and i dont talk about it with anyone. but u are right she has my 6 and i trust her with my life..the scene where mel gibson becomes his old self at fort wilderness from the movie "patriot" flashes through my mind as what would become of me if she was even threatened...the beast would reveal itself


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## Guest

Old SF Guy said:


> I will say this...never travel with your loved one if your not willing to put a bullet through her brain to save her from a worse fate. Be the dumb ass that says that will never happen...cause it can...be prepared. Leave them at home unless you are leaving for good and even then give them the means to end it all and instill the will to do it.


very intense but you may have a good point...its a tough decision.


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## Dark Jester

Old SF Guy said:


> really? you would want your loved one (wife...daughter) to get ass raped by 30 bikers because they captured you and disarmed or shot you? You wouldn't help her/them understand the way to ease the pain and avoid the slavery? You may post like I'm a dumb ass...but think about it for a while.


My reaction was not to infer you are a dumb ass, but to show my astonishment. I would have thought I had this situation covered in my plan, but had not specifically considered this graphic scenario and now I am left sitting here with it running through my head.


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## Dark Jester

Here is a good resource that covers a number of issues that have been brought up in this thread. It's the US Army Military Police Leaders Handbook. This Field Manual covers valuable information like "Preparing for Combat", "Constructing Fighting and Survivability Positions" all the way to "Reconnaissance Operations" and finally "Base Defense".

http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/fm3_19x4.pdf


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## Smokin04

Arklatex said:


> Yep. Exactly what I meant.


Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

I don't care if it's now, or 18 seconds from now. Without planning, or at least squad based SOP's...you probably won't make it out. Ever hear the phrase, "no plan survives first contact"?

And FWIW, books/field manuals are great, but nothing replaces actual experience. Reading about how to build a DFP is NOT the same as actually constructing one, nor is squad based moving and fighting in urban environments. If you truly had to go NOW...as in right this very second...you wont make it ten feet because I promise you, you're not carrying your rifle, 500 rounds, body armor and ruck as you're reading this.

That's why there are bug out plans. You should've taken the time to discuss/plan your exit strategy with your loved ones already. If you haven't, better get on it. If SHTF right NOW! and you gotta go...should be as simple as grabbing your gear and pressing the go button.


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## Smokin04

Arklatex said:


> I agree with proper planning for bug out. I keep a ghb and multiple planned routes for that reason. I also have plenty of gear in the truck. What I meant though was that if you have an option to move to a rural area now (not bugging out, relocating) you will be much better off in SHTF.


I absolutely agree with that.


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## StarPD45

Also this one, SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA


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