# Critique my arsenal please!



## Incongruous (Aug 12, 2013)

Hi everybody. I'm Max and from Missouri where gun culture is alive and strong!

I'm working on finishing my arsenal soon as I start work on some food gathering and alternative energy sources (or a gennie.) but first I need advice on my favorite topic: guns!

So far I have:

Glock 23:

This is my EDC and primary sidearm, I'd say. It's in .40 S&W but I have a barrel kit so it can fire 9mm as well. I have it loaded with Remington Golden Saber or Hornady Critical Defense rounds and I have 4 13-round magazines. I'd say I have between 850-950 rounds of .40 stored for it, mostly a split between the two ammo types above with 100 rounds of good ol' FMJ. I've put somewhere near 2200 rounds through this thing and have never had a jam. I love this pistol! My 9mm stockpile is 250 or so rounds, mostly Speer Gold Dot. 

Ruger GP-100:

Six-shot .357 Magnum, 3" barrel and blued steel. I've put around 500 rounds through it (it's new) and it's my primary defensive handgun if for some reason I don't have my Glock. (I live alone in a house with very thick walls, so over-penetration isn't as big of a problem for me.) Hornady Critical Defense rounds and a bit of FMJ, maybe 500 rounds total. This thing will knock somebody down, I imagine. I've also got 3 speed loaders. 

Primary rifle:

Mossberg AR-15. I have a holographic sight with backup "flip-down" iron sights, a better trigger job and five 30-round magazines. The free-floating barrel makes this gun incredibly accurate. I've probably shot 1000 rounds with it with few issues and I would say I have between 1950-2050 rounds for it in my garage. (Packed up and ready to GTFO.)

Shotgun:

Mossberg 500, black, 3" barrel, adjustable stock, pistol grip, pump-action with an 8 round capacity and a 19" barrel. I have it loaded with Hornady TAP 12 gauge, first #4 then four 00 buck and three slugs. I honestly have shot this gun in a financially irresponsible manner, maybe 1100 shells. I think I have around 250 spare shells of various types. 

So what do you all think? What should I add or change? Should I stockpile more ammo of one or more types? Are these guns practical and effect for a SHTF scenario in which I'd have to defend my home? (I have the resources and location for fortify it pretty heavily and I live next to a fair-sized forest, so it's sort of isolated.)

Thanks!


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

My belief is you only could add 3 things in my opine:

1) a bolt 300 WM with glass on the low end can be $700-1000 but you could spend a lot more. This would help you at a much greater distance and with stopping power which both can be important. 

2) a 22 LR package including a pistol and rifle. I believe in the 10-22 but you might prefer a tube fed to avoid the magazines. For a hand gun you could go revolver to avoid magazines but if you prefer not I recommend a Rock Island Armory 1911 45 with a 22 conv kit from Kimber. With mags and ammo that can run $1k but you add a caliber.


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## trainershawn (Dec 14, 2012)

Nice set up so far. I agree with Ripon though. You should add a 22lr. Great for training and small game hunting. I have a 10/22 TD and an SR22 along with a variety of others but these are my BO guns. I'm looking to add a Ruger Single Six that has two cylinders. One for 22lr and one for 22wmr. My TD is convenient, but I also think my Henry 22 Lever would outlast anything semi-auto. Others may disagree but in long term SHTF, a tube fed lever or bolt may be your best bet. Once I get my Single Six, I'll have two rigs. One with the Ruger TD and SR22, the other with my Henry Lever and the revolver.


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## trainershawn (Dec 14, 2012)

I forgot to add, if you don't want what Ripon suggested, you can get a Mosin Nagant for around $200 and plenty of ammo. My local Dunhams has several Mosins in stock all the time. Price is $199. They are a proven rifle and can take a lot of abuse. They kick hard but are fun to shoot.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Add me to the "you need a .22" camp. While yer at it, also add me to the, "you should also have a long range/hunting rifle" group.

As much as you seem to shoot, some spare parts might be worth having too. Springs, firing pins, and whatever else might break on you would be good to keep on hand.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Your arsenal is useless. To save any further embarrassment, I'll let you store it my safe. 

Seriously, I really dig the fact that you have a wheel gun. I used to have a GP 100, great gun. As everyone else said, go get a .22; I have a Marlin 795, after owning a half dozen 10-22's, and I like it better. And they can be had on the cheap. I paid $150 out the door, with illuminated scope for mine, used but in like new condition.

Also agree with Trainershawn; A Mosin is a very viable way to go, way less expensive, ammo just about everywhere you look and tough as nails. I cut my barrel down to 16.5", re-crowned it using nothing more than a hacksaw, a file, a drill bit to start the crown, a brass screw, some emery cloth and steel wool to finish it. Super easy. Trimmed the stock, though eventually I may go with with synthetic, but I like the "Smash Factor" of that heavy wooden stock (but not the weight). Painted everything with a textured paint, knocked off the rear sight, mounted a Scout Scope (Long Eye Relief), a flashlight and finished off by fitting an AK47 Bayonet I had laying around. It took about 5 minutes to fit. If I had cut the barrel at 17", probably would have went right on. Then I epoxied it in place. I have 1000 rounds on hand and purchased 880 rounds during the middle of the recent "hype" for $235 shipped. 2 sealed tins, the can opener and the heavy factory wooden crate they originally came in. The ammo is still out there, but there are guys trying to get over $500 for 440, with guys selling it for the mid $200's for 880. You do the math. Cheaper Than Sleaze is one of high dollar ones.

It shoots a ragged hole at 25 yards, and with surplus ammo, shoots roughly a 2" group at 100, about an inch with good stuff. I can hit the steel plate at 200 yards at our range with surplus. And the fireball with the surplus ammo is not only impressive, but will keep you warm. And it's loud. I mean really loud. Shakes dust off the rafters and the range officers wont stand under the cover when I shoot it. So personally, save your money on the safe queen and use it to buy something you won't be afraid to get dirty!


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

22LR will put game in the pot. You also need a long range scoped rifle.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Remington SPS Tactical in 308 with a nice 3-9X50 scope for long range problems.


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## Incongruous (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks a lot so far!

It sounds like I need to get a .22 LR! I think I can afford to invest in that!

Here's a follow up question:

Lets say my budget is $1250. What is the best setup for my money for a long-range rifle that will be the best bet in a SHTF situation?

PS: not sure who mentioned it, but I already am a hoarder of spare parts...although I need to learn how to use them a bit more efficiently.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Another vote for the .22lr Ruger 10/22 is the standard others are judged by. The 3" barrel on that mossy must be hoot!


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I prefer the 300 Winchester Mag for long range. Someone noted a .308 and those are fine too but I like what a 300 WM does to an engine block more than the .308. Honestly I invested in a 338 Lapua but don't recommend it to anyone. I found a used 300 WM hunting rifle and I modified a little for a bipod and put a nice scope on it - I can shoot it for so much less than the Lapua and the stopping power / range is very similar. More than enough for me. There are countless rifles and glass available for less than $1250 in the 300 WM category that will suit you. I'd say that the mainline Savage (not the axis stuff) but the 110/111 series does a fine job at the price. This way you can afford glass, bipod, ammo, and pick up a hand reloading kit for the 300 WM, a few hundred extra bullets, a pound of powder and bunch of primers and you'll be stocked for well under $1250.

While I like 10/22's I've grown fond of the older tub fed guns. They are around for $150/250 pretty easily and do a great job.



Incongruous said:


> Thanks a lot so far!
> 
> It sounds like I need to get a .22 LR! I think I can afford to invest in that!
> 
> ...


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

I need a better 22lr.


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## Paltik (Jul 27, 2013)

First off, nice arsenal. Even if you don't add anything to it you can respond to a wide variety of scenarios.

With your budget you can afford something in the Remington 700 or Savage 10 class with decent optics.

I notice you don't have a real MBR; consider something battle-proven like an M1A, SCAR 17s, or FAL, or stick with a familiar design and consider an AR-10.

It's great having a solid variety of specialist weapons; I like it because it means you can arm others in your party. But don't feel you need to have a bunch of firearms (though there's nothing wrong with wanting them for the fun of it). I myself am going for more general-purpose long arms: 1 shotgun with two barrels for HD and hunting, a semi-automatic carbine in .308 to cover CQB, MBR, and hunting, and a .22 for training and hunting.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I agree - you have a good start on a diverse armory.
You need a bolt action rifle for heavy long range work. I like military cartridges because you can get components and ammo just about anywhere in the world. 308 is hard to beet as is the old 30-06. The difference in trajectory between these two and the magnum is around two inches and under that within reasonable ranges that will be used.

I would suggest a 22rim-fire in a rifle and pistol that can fire any of the common four different rim-fire rounds; bb cap, short, long and long rifle. This eliminates any auto-loaders but will give you a diversity of available ammo that is useful anytime.

That will just about complete your armory but you can always add other guns - like a magnum revolver to add diversity to your collection.


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## Incongruous (Aug 12, 2013)

Ha, hopefully I don't need a magnum revolver bigger than my .357. That'd be a tough SOB. But you never know...

I'm going to look at a number of things, probably a .308 and a .300 WM. 

And @Paltik:

I thought my AR-15 was a main battle rifle until about a few weeks ago when I really started to get interested in the prepping business. I was thinking of an M1A, just because my grandfather passed on an M1 to my father (who unfortunately had to sell it recently) and it was TOUGH. Made me appreciate the Springfield line of rifles a lot more. At this point, after my long-range and .22 slots are left, I'm probably going to get a tough-ass AK. My girlfriend's dad gave her mom one this past Christmas and WOW is it a fine weapon. It's Romanian and he got it for under $600...I'll have to find out more about that.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

What self respecting gun owner doesn't have at least one 22 rim fire in their collection? Why that's just heresy and should be punishable by burning at the stake in public! My Ruger Single Six is by far and away the funnest gun I own and I have a LOT of guns! I lost count of the number of 500 round bricks I have put through that gun a couple of decades ago! Enough said...

I would make a 22 rim fire my next purchase in no uncertain terms!!!


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## TLock762x51 (Nov 14, 2012)

Definitely get a .22 rifle, and a pistol would be good as well. I agree that a scoped bolt rifle would be useful...Savage is an excellent choice for the money, I'd recommend a heavy barreled .308, and don't skimp on the glass.

Tim


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Incongruous said:


> Thanks a lot so far!
> 
> It sounds like I need to get a .22 LR! I think I can afford to invest in that!
> 
> ...


HOWA 1500 Hogue Target Master Combo Package (with nice scope included) w/ optional Detachable Box Magazine (10 rds.). I mean, if you had an extra $1250 to spend, why not? You'll still have enough money left over to buy ammo or a reloading set-up to roll your own.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

.300 mag is a great round, but you will burn a lot more powder than in a .308 and brass/ammo is not as common as .308. .308 is used by the military most frequently and good past 600 meters. I am a fan of the lowly Marlin model 60 in .22lr, you can find a good used one for $100 and they are very common so parts are easy to find.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm also in the "get .22" camp. I would also add a 9 mm pistol. That caliber will be the most common available, other than .22, in a SHTF situation.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Pir8fan said:


> I'm also in the "get .22" camp. I would also add a 9 mm pistol. That caliber will be the most common available, other than .22, in a SHTF situation.


Please understand that I am not trying to pick on you here,

The shit has only mildly splattered the fan, and their is no 9mm or .22LR any where, for the last nine months.

Every one on this site needs to consider the lesson that has been such a current event for all to see.

When the SHTF Their will be very little "readily available" ammunition other than what you yourself are in possession of.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Once again. NEW Remington SPS Tactical 308 $625-$650 unless you shop at Gander Mountain then $750.

New Nikon Buckmaster 3-9-50 $300-$325.

Ruger 10/22 base model new or a really nice used bull barrel should be easy to find in the $300 or less range. 

Sorry blew the budget by $25.


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## Incongruous (Aug 12, 2013)

@ Pir8fan:

It may not have been clear, but I actually do have a drop-in barrel for my Glock 23, chambered in .40, through which I can shoot 9mm. I've stockpiled a load of .40 and 250-300 rounds of 9mm as well.

Okay, so .22 LR first! A rifle definitely, a pistol maybe! It sounds like each one can be had for under $500. Then, if my expenses are correct and I spend around $800 procuring 2 .22LR guns, I can focus on the big-ol rifle.

Thank you all for the help! Keep the weapon ideas coming!


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

The 308 is a fine round, but, ammo is al but non existant , at least in stores around here. YMMV
30-06 is in every store along with 270 and sometimes 300 mag.

Ordering on line may find more availability 

Food for thought


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Sounds like some good advice here. I would look at a Ruger 10/22. I have a philosophy to use what "they" are using "they" being the gobermint. A Remington bolt action in .308/7.62 NATO would be my choice. You can drob a .357 Sig barrel in your Glock 23 giving you another caliber if you choose.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

As far as ammo availability.... it's out there, but not as cheap as it used to be. Check gunbot.net for up to the minute listings of who has what.

The fact that the more popular calibers are harder to find now just means that there is more of it on the streets. People and agencies are hoarding it, so millions and millions of rounds will be already out there if the need arises. In a SHTF situation, follow the sound of gunfire and pick up all you need off the losers. 

A better plan is to stock up what you can when you can. I've managed to stock up during the worst of the shortages, you can too.

For example, gunbot is showing that US Armorment has PMC .308 Winchester 147gr FMJ-BT for 68 cents per round (500 round case for $340)
Palmetto State Armory has Federal American Eagle .223 Rem 55gr FMJ for 45 cents each
Killough has Eley Target .22lr at 11 cents a round

The point is... it's out there if you look.


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## Paltik (Jul 27, 2013)

Incongruous said:


> I thought my AR-15 was a main battle rifle until about a few weeks ago when I really started to get interested in the prepping business.... At this point, after my long-range and .22 slots are left, I'm probably going to get a tough-ass AK.


I would classify the AK, like the AR-15, as a CQB rifle more than a MBR.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> As far as ammo availability.... it's out there, but not as cheap as it used to be. Check gunbot.net for up to the minute listings of who has what.
> 
> The fact that the more popular calibers are harder to find now just means that there is more of it on the streets. People and agencies are hoarding it, so millions and millions of rounds will be already out there if the need arises. In a SHTF situation, follow the sound of gunfire and pick up all you need off the losers.
> 
> ...


Yes sir, There is ammo out there, I use gunbot and ammoseek. and I have the best luck late at night or early am. 
I would also like to mention that no matter what you have, practice, practice, then practice some more. Seems you do shoot alot, from your posts...
The next "practice session" I have planned for my fiance, daughter and myself will run throu a sandy wash, and we will do some kneeling, crawling, and back to the ground shooting..
Your arsenal rating from me? Better than mine, keep up the posts and questions...


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## fedorthedog (Feb 28, 2012)

The 22 thing has been beat to death but I agree a rifle (10-22) and a pistol. The one thing I see that you are lacking is mags. This is thing that causes the most malfunctions on an auto loader. I would get a minimum of 15 mags for the rifle and 10 for the pistol. In a fight you may lose some and they break. Most crack at the ears, and cause failure to feed. Buying fifteen now should allow you to have usable mags for life, by trading parts on those that fail.


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## lgustavus81 (Aug 12, 2013)

Got some nice guns need to add some blades to that arsenal! pics are a little old. Mine has grown since then!
If finding ammo is an issue check Freedom Munitions. They always have stock of any caliber I've needed and their storefront location is 30 minutes from my house. They do online sales as well!


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Would someone be so kind as to tell me what possible use anyone would have for a .22 pistol?

The only use I can see is to give them as gifts to your French friends, who don't intend to fight anyway.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Incongruous said:


> Thanks a lot so far!
> 
> It sounds like I need to get a .22 LR! I think I can afford to invest in that!
> 
> ...


remington 700 SPS 308 free floated bull barrel will be on that price range. good gun out of the box, shoots well and it is accurate


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> Would someone be so kind as to tell me what possible use anyone would have for a .22 pistol?
> 
> The only use I can see is to give them as gifts to your French friends, who don't intend to fight anyway.


if the .22 is a ruger mk2, you can get that integrally suppressed. you will then have an accurate and quiet handgun you could use for lots of SHTF scenarios


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I agree with HuntingHawk, long range rifle with a good scope, is what I am thinking.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

Another vote for a good 22LR combo.. rifle & handgun.

I opted for a Smith 15-22 as it's manual of arms is the same as my AR's. Very accurate and reliable, but a bit more costly than a 10/22.










With subsonic ammo, the loudest part of this rifle is the bolt cycling.

I'm seriously considering one of these...


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Incongruous said:


> THere's a follow up question:
> 
> Lets say my budget is $1250. What is the best setup for my money for a long-range rifle that will be the best bet in a SHTF situation?


My 2 cents:

Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308 win - 26" heavy barrel ($650)
Choate Light Tactical stock ($210)
Champion Bipod ($ 30)
SWFA SS 10x42M Tactical Riflescope ($300)
Rings & Base ($ 70)
total $1260

You could get a rem 700 SPS tactical and not have to restock it, but I'm not a big fan of the Hogue overmolded stock. The SPS Tac also has a 20" barrel while the SPS Varmint has a 26" barrel which translates to higher muzzle velocity and more energy at longer ranges.









Mine as shown has a Falcon Menace 5.5-25 X 50mm Tactical Scope, which runs about $450. Most military and police snipers use fixed 10x scopes, but with my old eyes, I need all the help I can get. Another nice thing about the variable is I can crank it up to 25x and use it to ID targets, spy on my neighbors, or whatever.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Prepadoodle, could you tell us why anyone would not have a 22 handgun?


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

alterego said:


> Please understand that I am not trying to pick on you here,
> 
> The shit has only mildly splattered the fan, and their is no 9mm or .22LR any where, for the last nine months.
> 
> ...


Other than Jan and Feb, I've had no problem getting 9 mm ammo. Yes, it's been expensive, but ther is a ton of it out there in closets and gun vaults.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

whoppo said:


> Another vote for a good 22LR combo.. rifle & handgun.
> 
> I opted for a Smith 15-22 as it's manual of arms is the same as my AR's. Very accurate and reliable, but a bit more costly than a 10/22.
> 
> ...


I have wanted one of these since they came out. I love them.

And Prepadoodle, a semi-auto .22 pistol? Quick double tap to the head at close quarters. No recoil, complete control-ability and you can't beat the fact it is way quieter than a centerfire round. Like Whoppo said, the right ammo, even a suppressor, the loudest noise is the bolt cycling.


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## Lazerus2000 (Jun 15, 2013)

OR,
you could simply get .22 LR conversion kits for your AR 15 and your Glock23.

I personally have a couple of Ruger 10/22 rifles in stainless, the take down and the HAMMER FORGED heavy barrel. But for CHEAP PRACTICE with your primary defensive weapons, the .22 LR conversion kits will give you decent accuracy with a near perfect "FEEL". 

One of the very best AR 15 shooters I uses a .22 LR conversion kit for most of his fast/close/CQB practice.
PLUS, he has a young son .... so the .22 LR conversion works out well for both of them.
LAZ 1


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

Looks like everyone already gave you good advice. a 22 rifle and pistol and a long gun scoped for hunting if needed. I would say either 30.06 or 308 since they are 2 of the most popular rifle rounds in America and if you reload you can pick up others brass when you come across it. I pick up every type of brass just in case I ever do reload for that caliber....


Doc


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> My 2 cents:
> 
> Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308 win - 26" heavy barrel ($650)
> Choate Light Tactical stock ($210)
> ...


The perfect rifle..


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Ok, let me be a little controversial..

First, I think your arms should include a carbine, long range hunting rifle (pick your caliber), a .22 rifle for small stuff, a .12 guage, a couple of pistols, a couple of appropriate blades and the ammo for each. Your weapons should compliment your risk assessment... 

Now the controversy... I think your food and water stores are more important. Depending in where you live, do you really think you'll use all those weapons? Are you capable of using them in real life or just taticool? Do you regularly train? Do you think you could or would use them against xx force. That force being the government, police, thugs.. Fill in the xx with any group. 

Not saying one way or another is correct.. Just asking the questions.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

tango said:


> Prepadoodle, could you tell us why anyone would not have a 22 handgun?


Sure. Because they are pretty much worthless.

I am willing to change my opinion if someone tells me some real purpose they serve.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> Sure. Because they are pretty much worthless.
> 
> I am willing to change my opinion if someone tells me some real purpose they serve.


 I have to agree with this.
.22 hand gun is for cheap target practice. Yes I have take small game with one but they are low on the list of should have IMO.
As a defense weapon they maybe better than a rock but still better options to be had.
Small game use a .22 rifle.
You will never have all the weapons you could use.
Stick to what you can afford anything is better than nothing
Go with what you know. Why buy a 5000 sniper rifle and scope if you can not use it.
Dual duty weapons should be first on your list. Good AR's fill a wide range on needs. They do not need to be decked out ones that break the bank.
High power over the top hand guns really are of little use , get a shot gun again you do not need to spend a lot to get a good one.
What ever direction you go do something then build on that.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

OK, there are a few uses for a .22 handgun. Say, for example you are training someone who has never handled a firearm before, especially if they are a smaller than average female child.

They can be fun to shoot if you don't mind your targets snickering at you.

I don't buy this "good for really close range headshots" argument. What, am I supposed to carry a big sack 'o guns and pull out the .22 if someone is within 5 feet of me? How about I just carry my .45 and use it anytime a handgun is needed?

Yes, a .22 is quieter, especially if suppressed. I think some of you watch too many movies. If I am in a situation where I need a handgun, I don't care how loud it is. In fact, the louder, the better. I want people diving for cover and keeping their heads down so I can get the hell out of there. I mean, really, some of you are going to be carrying a suppressed .22 as your primary backup weapon? Egad.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

you can carry a large amount .22 ammo in your pocket than you could a .45 and when it is suppressed, you got the element of stealth and surprise working for you. this is why the military and police have them handy. they are usefull little guns. I would not use them as a primary back up weapons. I will simply have them readily available at all times just in case the need for them presents itself. if you are to be preppared might as well do it right.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Sorry, but I don't need the element of stealth and surprise, I'm not an assassin. I've never seen anyone in the military or police that has "had one handy." I don't agree that they are "useful little guns," but I do agree with the "little" part. To me, not having one handy is "doing it right."

Look, if you want one, by all means get one. My point is that it should be WAY down on your priority list. IMO, you might as well waste your money on a good blowgun or one of those nifty razor-brimmed hats Odd Job used in the Bond films. Now those are cool!

Anywho, I'm a gonna shut up about .22 handguns now. I think you all know how I feel.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> Sorry, but I don't need the element of stealth and surprise, I'm not an assassin. I've never seen anyone in the military or police that has "had one handy." I don't agree that they are "useful little guns," but I do agree with the "little" part. To me, not having one handy is "doing it right."
> 
> Look, if you want one, by all means get one. My point is that it should be WAY down on your priority list. IMO, you might as well waste your money on a good blowgun or one of those nifty razor-brimmed hats Odd Job used in the Bond films. Now those are cool!
> 
> Anywho, I'm a gonna shut up about .22 handguns now. I think you all know how I feel.


israeli military and police use them. they use it to shoot protesters on their legs to put them out of the fight. also they use suppressed 22's in shooting out lights. if you have no use for stealth and surprise then you are right, no need for them.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

To put a little different light on this topic I would like to point out the following:

The number one gun/cartridge that causes death in this country (USA) in a home defense situation is the lowly 22RF. 

OK, that is a bit unfair because there are many more people shot with 22s than ANY other caliber but at the same time it is lethal.

The 22LR kills more because it is a dirty outside lubricated bullet that bounces all over inside a person spreading infection where ever it goes than for its actual "killing potential". That means that the guy you just shot may live for a few hours, killing you and your family before he dies.

In all fairness the lowly 22RF is better than nothing and if you are good with it it can be as good as anything else. I am not as proficient with my 22s as I am with my 357 but I could easily make a head shot on a person coming at me from 25 yards away. would I be comfortable doing that? Not really - I prefer my 357 because I know it better. I would choose my 22RF over someone elses semi-auto or revolver simply because I am at least familiar with my guns and the other gun probably won't shoot to the same point of impact as my guns do.

The bottom line is: If it is the weapon you are good with then use it - if it is the only gun you have then you better be proficient with it. It does present many handicaps that can only be overcome with lots of practice and even then, in my opinion, it is still a lot less than ideal for any purpose.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

"Bella Twin, an Indian girl, and her friend Dave Auger were hunting grouse near Lesser Slave Lake in northern Alberta. The only gun they had was Bella's single-shot bolt-action .22 Rimfire rifle. They were walking a cutline that had been made for oil exploration when they saw a large grizzly following the same survey line toward them. If they ran, the bear would probably notice them and might chase, so they quietly sat down on a brush pile and hoped that the bear would pass by without trouble. But the bear came much too close, and when the big boar was only a few yards away, Bella Twin shot him in the side of the head with a .22 Long cartridge. The bear dropped, kicked and then lay still. Taking no chances, Bella went up close and fired all of the cartridges she had, seven or eight .22 Longs, into the bear's head. That bear, killed in 1953, was the world-record grizzly for several years and is still high in the records today."

Gets the job done when the cards are down.

Grizzly Guns (World Record shot with a .22)

I've taken more squirrel, rabbit, ground hog, and racoon than I could ever begin to count with .22lr. A good part of those kills with a pistol. Since buying the pistol about four years ago I hardly ever take rifles anymore. I've taken squirrel with the pistol out to 75 yards. Yes, I miss sometimes and it's taken as many as four shots at that range to get the hit. But I'm also using the factory open sights, and testing my limits with the weapon when I'm shooting that far more than anything. As a kid, my dad regularly hunted and killed deer with a .22lr because it was all he had, and they needed the meat for the table.

Tell me more about how they aren't practical...  It'll be a lengthy time convincing me.


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