# Lets talk portable communication



## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Going on the premises of one of our party has lost or broken their cell phone, dead battery, cell towers backed up with to many calls or are down for whatever reason, how do we communicate with our family and or group members in a very hilly inner city/suburbia area say up to a 10-20 mile range while hoofing it home from work with our GHB strapped on/ scavenging for supplies.
Back in the day chances were good the landlines would still work when the power grid was down, but phone booths are all but extinct these days and we haven't had a landline in our place for 10 years. 

I know enough about line of sight with radios. In recent years I've used the Midland or Motorola walkie talkies on job sites and they work pretty good for short range of a few blocks to 1/2 mile inner city, although being a 75' away on the other side of a 3-4 story brick/stucco building can hamper there use. I've stood on the roof of the 25' box truck I drove with my Motorola Nextel out in the sticks on the highest hills I could find trying to contact the office 50 miles away. As a pre adult I spent many a late night staring at the power meter of a CB playing hide and seek.

I'm not one with a budget that can afford to just toss a couple sat phones (pay the bill every month) in a bag that will hopefully never get used.
Are there decent options out there for under $101 for 2 handsets.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Without knowing your exact terrain requirement, have you looked into ham radio? I got into ham for the same reasons you've mentioned.


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

As far as terrain this region is all rough glacier carved. The hills around here are as much as 500' I'm 15 miles out of the city and I'm at 390' but can be at sea level in a 10 minute 4 mile drive.
As I say, around here if you're not going up a hill, you're going down one.

Price is right, whats a ham license cost or would you bother for SHTF use only? and can you teach a technologically challenged middle aged wife to use one.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

Short answer, you can’t. Atleast not in a way that rivals the convenience of cell phones, especially in a city area. Without repeaters handheld radios are basically walkie talkies, and those work ok. 
The key to walkie talkies is actually having them, and having used them to determine their capabilities. We have walkies on a cradle at home, with written instructions. We also have them in the car, and I carry one for work anyway.
Having an established protocol is also helpful, for example; we have pre determined primary, secondary and tertiary channel/sub channels combos and a formula for a making new ones.
Additionally we know that if one radio is missing from the cradle at home, we start monitoring the predetermined channels.

Having multiple channels predetermined is really important, especially since when something bad happens, the number of ppl using walkie talkies will increase greatly, and many of the ppl will have terrible radio etiquette.

Lastly, we have rally areas predetermined, the idea being if something cooks off, we move in a general direction that allows us to get within walkie talkie range. It’s still not cell phones, but it beats smoke signals.


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

I'm not expecting cell quality, but if I can make contact while traversing the top of a hill it would be useful.
And I was also thinking about pre arranged channel hopping as you suggested.

The problem with walkies is I know they are useless here until I'm only 5-20 mins. away, not much good when at best I could be hoofing it for 4 hrs. and I seriously entertain the possibility of spending a night out doors on the way. Knowing my wife is ok, headed to/arrived at our alternate location, her knowing I'm on my way or had to hold up for the night, would be a big moral booster for both of us to say the least.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

HAM is pretty good, it’s a lot to learn though.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> and can you teach a technologically challenged middle aged wife to use one.


Can she push a button and talk. If you and she can do that you can use a radio once it is set up. Not hard now days to get a license put your call sign on the radio and use it every once in a while at least when you have bad weather. That way you know how to use it and you know it works .

Many don't get a license planning on only using it in an emergency . However there is something to be said about routinely talking to the guy on the other side of the county who you get t o know and recognize his voice so when he tells you something you know he is telling you what he thinks is true. Ham radio folks are all preppers at least at some level not bad to know a bunch of them.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I teach the Technician ham radio class (beginners) and will be teaching the General ham radio class (intermediate) starting this September.
While most of my students are men, I average about 20% - 30% women in the class and they all pass the exam. The exam is 35 questions
with a minimum score of 74% (26 correct answers) to pass (out of 426 possible questions). In the textbook that just expired, there are 10 
segments and they take 3-6 questions from each segment for the exam. So it is possible to completely mess up a segment and still pass
the exam.

In my last class, I had only one man fail to pass, and one woman ace the exam and most pass the exam with scores in the mid to high 90% area. 
There are books available with CD ROM discs to help you study. People who can learn by reading probably don't need the CD's. I have about 
2-3 students who drop out of each class and finish the book on their own and successfully pass the test without any problem. The book I
prefer runs about $22 on Amazon and $35 for the book and CD's. There are many on line Internet practice test website around to help and I
really recommend them to my students, once we get 3/4 of the way thru the book. I also give my students handouts to help them including
a self test so they can get an idea of how well they are retaining the info. 

I got into ham because of the need to communicate. For day to day close in, comm in a post SHTF event, ham radio may or may not work. 
Just like the inexpensive walkie-talkies you mentioned, the handie-talkies or HT's (what hams call walkie-talkies) may only be as good, or a 
tad better. The inexpensive ham HT's are meant for line of sight comm between them. The prepper group I hang with, is trying to get 
everyone licensed, so w can actually use the radios and become familiar with them before we need to use them. Something a non-licensed
person would get in big trouble in they got caught transmitting on the radio. Being licensed gives the opportunity to communicate with other
hams and learn the capabilities of your radios. I am saving my pennies to buy a radio capable of long distance communication (cross country
or inter-continental). But I have recently found a prepper very near me who is already set up for long distance comm, so I need to reassess 
my desires versus my needs.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

I just talked to a buddy 68 miles away in the middle of the day on 75 meters sitting in my home using a piece of wire for an antenna.....This morning I worked Germany Spain and Saudi Arabia on 3 different bands on the same piece of wire. On Ham you don't wait for "SKIP TO ROLL" with breaks every few years... You just change to the open band. You have 9 High Frequency bands to choose from. Like having 9 different radio's for different times of the day...all in one! A Basic radio usually runs 100 watts....It can be turned down to 5 watts usually and you can start around 600$ new or around 350$ used....Well worth the investment! At 30$ you can get a handheld VHF radio that will get you from 50 to 100 miles if you get your beginners "Technician" class license if you have a repeater around you and most Cities around 3000-4000 and larger in population do. I used to talk with a 50$ beam antenna 100 miles to Knoxville Tennessee and then into Georgia from there with a $159 base radio on VHF. In Ham Radio... Communications comes in all price ranges...You just have to get that license!


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Thanx for the insights.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

I need to get into Ham radio. 
ALso, are CB radios still viable option?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I kn ow there are some people out there with CB radios, but they only seem to favored by truckers. 
One prepper friend of mine has a CB and turns it on for most of the day on channel 19, and only 
hears someone maybe 3-4 times a week, and they are always truckers.

Look for a ham radio club in your area. Hams are always ready to help.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

We got thieves using CB at night to keep tabs on police...Might be good to have a cheap one just to listen...But if you have a ham radio it usually covers those frequencies too.


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## Malcom Renolds (Jul 14, 2017)

If you wanna "play" with some Amateur stuff, a really cheap option is SDR.

For about 30$ you can get the "power" of a Police Scanner, Short Wave Radio, and a high end HAM transceiver. You will not have the power to transmit "across the world", but it is enough to get your feet wet.

https://www.amazon.com/RTL-SDR-Blog...e=UTF8&qid=1530545694&sr=1-3&keywords=RTL-SDR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software-defined_radio

Remember it is ILLEGAL to TRANSMIT on Amateur Frequencies with out the ticket, but Free to listen.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

SDR requires a computer however! I have a couple of SDR UNO receivers and they do work great! You can even get them to work on an old android phone without the phone subscription.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

As has been said, ham radio is really the way to go. The versatility is astounding.
Can't get a clear voice comm going? Use CW.
Can't get on a local repeater? Wait til the right time of day, and bank off a passing satellite. (Yes, even handheld ham radios can do this with the right antennae)
Power grid go down, and cell towers are offline? Many repeaters are set up with solar and battery backups, so they can work without a hitch during a blackout.
Ham can be a great way to keep up to date on the state of an emergency too, since amateur operators are often called on to relay important information during emergency situations when other modes of communication are down. You can listen in and get real-time updates from local authorities, government entities, and sometimes even military coordination, depending on what they have the hams relaying.

Damn... I should really get my ass in gear and get that license.

As far as getting yours, I would HIGHLY recommend it for two reasons.
1. Legality. You want to practice using it before you ever have to rely on it, and doing so without a licence is a big no-no.
2. Knowledge. You will learn a ton just going through the learning process. There is so much to absorb on the topic, and trying to piecemeal it together in an unstructured way on your own will lead to frustration and discouragement. Find a good course, complete it, and since you've already committed the time, might as well get the ticket to prove it.

That said, there's a caveat to the legality concern. In any situation where life/limb hangs in the balance, ham bands can be used by unlicensed individuals to reach out for help in an emergency without any legal ramifications. The law does carve out this exception explicitly.
That's in a "world continues to spin as normal" type of scenario.
In a SHTF scenario, well... you know.:tango_face_wink:


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Out of interest: who here holds an amateur radio licence/qualification?

I do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

I do...Run Voice (SSB) CW known as Morse code and lots of digital communications...46 years worth!


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

This has all been help full.
Thanx for all the insight.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

SGT E said:


> I do...Run Voice (SSB) CW known as Morse code and lots of digital communications...46 years worth!


SSBSCW to give it its full name 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bleach (Jul 5, 2018)

I have two of these:










and two of these:










And one of these:










The top one is a baofeng 5 watt transceiver and the yellow ones are 8 watt. They work here in the town I live in very well. I can talk real close to 3 miles away between the radios. The other is a Tecsun SW receiver. Works good.


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## Bleach (Jul 5, 2018)

Also I can get WX police and fire on them.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Bleach said:


> Also I can get WX police and fire on them.


You can also _talk_ to the authorities with them. Which is, in an emergency, legal in the US, IIRC.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I have 4 UV-5Rx's with 3 in EMP resistant wrapping. But 4-9 watts, while better than nothing kind of limits your reach. 
My regular dual band (2 meter/70 cm) puts out up to 50 watts/45 watts respectively. This allows me to reach out and
touch other preppers in the area without having to worry about other people listening in on the repeater. But the repeater
allows me to reach out to other hams daily. To my point of view, the little Baofengs are ok for very short range without a
repeater. With a repeater they can do quite a bit of work and are an educational tool I recommend to my students. 
I have the same higher output ham radio pre-programmed and wrapped for EMP resistance. But just my opinion.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

We have several of the Motorola 350R GMS radios (4 watt) and they work great .9 mile away straight line (about 1.5 miles by road) and broken up but usable 1.5 miles away (straight line) through trees and a few low hills. No contact at 1.9 miles straight line (2.6 miles by road) through trees and small hills. Since we already have a 2 meter setup at the house with a 30' high antenna we just get a BaoFeng BF-F8HP 8 watt radio but haven't programmed and tested it yet. We have some ability to keep the radios charged for years.

The goal was to have the ability to talk with neighbors who have their own Motorola radios up to a mile away and if we were to leave the house and go 4+ miles to town we could still talk but while the Motorola GMS radios could talk to the neighbors they didn't have a chance of talking from town. Since we already had the 2 meter base with a tall antenna we added a 2 meter handheld.
Keep in mind that because of the curvature of the earth any 2 radios more than about 3 miles apart will not be in direct line of sight of each other when held 6' above the ground. see online calculator Radio Line of Sight Calculator for use on VHF/UHF Ham Bands Being on a hill will help, being in a low area will hurt distance.
Having reliable long distance (more than 2-3 miles) radio communications requires a tall antenna or a repeater which uses a tall antenna. Power always helps but isn't a miracle worker. Tall antennas are more important than power.


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## AvTur (Jun 23, 2018)

I've been using baofeng handheld radios for years. They served very well for use in the Arabian desert for vehicle convoy use and have since served very well for various exercises and range use back home. The people I want round me in a situation all have them pre-programmed. Might be useless when they are miles away, but the idea is to have them on when moving toward a set location so they are suitable for the purpose of linking up.


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

I'm looking at a pair of Baofengs $75 for the pair.

I live close to a city of 750k people, so there would be repeaters all over the place in town I'm guessing plus there would be some out here where I live, are those open source so to speak or are they on a restricted freq. that I can't transmit on? could a little hand held like the Baofeng use them?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> I'm looking at a pair of Baofengs $75 for the pair.............


I scored a set of 5, replete with batteries, charging bases, the whole kit-n-kaboodle, for $125 a few years back.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Ok, an interesting tid bid: I have a magnetic mount dual band antenna ($22) that is sitting on my filing cabinet. It is connected to my 4 watt Baofeng HT. I can hit the
repeater 15 miles away and thru the repeater talk all over the area. On a whim, I had the antenna on my gas grill and was talking to a buddy in an aircraft (also on a 
4 watt Baofeng) with an external antenna on the aircraft. He was 30-35 miles away and at 5500 feet while I am living at 2675 feet. Not bad, huh? A good antenna can
make a tremendous difference in those little Baofengs, but they are still line of sight.


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Paraquack, I grew up in the 60's and 70's, I know all about antennas and tin foil, you had to have the right gear and know how to use it to watch Bugs Bunny :tango_face_grin:

Seriously, good to know your able to get some distance with a simple add on antenna.

I'm now looking at the Baofeng GT-3TP which comes with an additional 9" high gain antenna, a little copper wire would probably also help boost range.


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## AvTur (Jun 23, 2018)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> I'm looking at a pair of Baofengs $75 for the pair.
> 
> I live close to a city of 750k people, so there would be repeaters all over the place in town I'm guessing plus there would be some out here where I live, are those open source so to speak or are they on a restricted freq. that I can't transmit on? could a little hand held like the Baofeng use them?


I agree with Back Pack Hack, they can be picked up much cheaper from well-known auction sites. For $75 I'd be expecting at least 4 radios with charging stations.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Keep in mind that repeaters may not be around for long if things go South. Tall antennas will really help.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> Paraquack, I grew up in the 60's and 70's, I know all about antennas and tin foil, you had to have the right gear and know how to use it to watch Bugs Bunny :tango_face_grin:
> 
> Seriously, good to know your able to get some distance with a simple add on antenna.
> 
> I'm now looking at the Baofeng GT-3TP which comes with an additional 9" high gain antenna, a little copper wire would probably also help boost range.


To get the best out of a radio the antenna has to be "tuned" to the right length, matching the wave length of the frequency being transmitted on. A simple wire antenna
of an unspecified length may help on receive but to get the most "out" (transmission) of a radio, you need a tuned antenna. Most antennas are "tuned" for the entire 
band the radio is designed to transmit on. But also be aware that the small radios are designed to "pump out" to a BIG antenna. My little Baofeng get pretty warm
when I am connected to the magnetic antenna, if I start ratchet jawing. While you can use a piece of wire for an antenna, it must be the correct length, the closer, the
better. All of this is taught in the ham radio books.


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