# Night vision



## Lucky Jim

_*"Learn to reverence night and to put away the vulgar fear of it.."- Henry Beston*_

If you can see in the dark and the gangs can't, it kinda gives you an edge..










There have been assorted small hand-held night vision devices on sale to the public for many years at affordable prices, I haven't got one myself but they're certainly worth considering for UFO/ghost/Bigfoot-chasing/gang-dodging or whatever, ha ha! 
There are two basic sorts, image-intensifiers (greenish image), and much more expensive thermal imagers (infra-red black/white).
Here are an assortment of net sites-

USEFUL DISCUSSION FORUM- Night Vision - OpticsPlanet Forums - Reviews, Discussions, Feedback, Ratings

LIST OF STOCKISTS- ATN: Where To Buy - Night Vision Goggles, Night Vision Scopes, Binoculars, Riflescopes, Laser Devices

TECHY STUFF- How Does Night Vision Work? We answer Your Night Vision Questions!


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## dontlookatme

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004M17H6Itv
These are really cheap if you like.

Just kidding. The link below were the ones i bought.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004M17H6S

They work really good. I was able to see up to 100 feet, even though it says 50 feet.


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## dudeman351

I have a gen 1 russian surplus monoculor. it works alright. I figured its.etter than nothing b


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## Smitty901

stocked up IR also


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## Alpha-17

Be careful using early gen stuff. Some of it uses an acitve IR light to see, and it's the Night vision equivilent of walking around with a flashlight on. Good for shooting coyotes, or two-legged varmits, not so good if the other guy has NODs too. 

Night vision is the one area I feel completely naked in, mostly because I've gotten used to having them for work. Having played OPFor a few times without NODs, going up against people that have them, I can tell you it's not fun. You always feel like you're about to walk into an ambush you can't see. That said, there are ways to defeat NODs, especially in Urban areas. One trick I've found to be really effective is to wait for a group with NV to enter a room, and then hit them with a white light. Almost every time, they stop in their tracks, and stare at you like a deer in head lights.


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## yzingerr

Generally surplus gen 1 is as good as your eyes are once adjusted to the darkness.
I have owned many pairs (still have one set). Generally they make cool toys. Without IR they are pretty much useless.


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## AvengersAssembled

A decent night vision device is definitely on my "wish/want" list, they're something I would without a doubt want to have to use.


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## rickkyw1720pf

Alpha-17 said:


> Be careful using early gen stuff. Some of it uses an acitve IR light to see, and it's the Night vision equivilent of walking around with a flashlight on. Good for shooting coyotes, or two-legged varmits, not so good if the other guy has NODs too.
> 
> Night vision is the one area I feel completely naked in, mostly because I've gotten used to having them for work. Having played OPFor a few times without NODs, going up against people that have them, I can tell you it's not fun. You always feel like you're about to walk into an ambush you can't see. That said, there are ways to defeat NODs, especially in Urban areas. One trick I've found to be really effective is to wait for a group with NV to enter a room, and then hit them with a white light. Almost every time, they stop in their tracks, and stare at you like a deer in head lights.


You get what you pay for in Night Vision equipment. The pvs-14 pinnacle is a great scope and using it in the mono mode you shouldn't have any big issue of being hit with white light. It will auto gate the light and may just go dark but then you would just switch to the other eye. You are right about IR light looking like a flashlight also I wouldn't use red light at night for the same reason I would go with blue as it will still keep your natural night vision but doesn't show up as good on NV equipment. One of the best uses of NV would be scanning a building or areas to see if any light is being used even if someone is using a candle in a building you would see it coming through a window. Now if they would only work behind an ACOG instead of an eotech they would be almost perfect.

Edit: I just tested an PVS-14 pinnacle to see what would happen if you walked into a room and someone turned on the light. So I walked into a almost completely dark room and turned on a 100 watt light and I was surprised that it didn't make a lot of difference the scope auto gated it down to to where it wasn't much brighter than when the light was off, in fact it wouldn't have been as bad as someone just turning a light on after being out in the dark and I could look directly into the 100 watt bulb and it wasn't any brighter than the rest of the room something you couldn't do with out looking through the scope. So if I did walk into a room and someone all of a sudden shined one of those flashlights that supposed to temporarily bland you the most it would do is blank out the light and I would see everything else clearly. With a gen 1 a light from anywhere will almost completely overload it.


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## Piratesailor

If you don't mind, let me resurface this topic. I'm curious as to what others are using and the various experiences.

I believe for me, it makes sense in a prepping scenario as well as for sailing at night. 

In all cases, I want to have the best advantage. 

Personally I'd probably limit it to a gen2 but I'm interested in binoculars as well.


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## Nathan Jefferson

From all my research and my recommendation; If you can afford it get the PVS-14. If you can't get a 'good' Gen 1 monocle.

I have these two Gen 1s and for the money (which is a SMALL fraction of the PVS-14) I really like them:
Amazon.com: Yukon - NV 1x24 Goggles: Sports & Outdoors
and the monocole version which to me is MUCH easier to use and more effective:
Yukon NVMT 1x24 Head Mount Kit : Amazon.com : Sports & Outdoors

Benefits of monocle over bino's is you still have one eye 'free' from the technology and for me it makes walking much easier.

Benefits of Gen 1 over anything until you start getting into the Gen 3+ or Gen 4 is A) Cost B) tube life (gen 1s last a LONG time, 2s and cheaper 3s are usually rated in the hundreds of hours) C) until you get to Gen 3+ or 4 you are still using IR illumination to help you see.


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## Piratesailor

Nathan, thanks for the advice. I've been looking at the Yukons.


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## rickkyw1720pf

Don't forget FLIR I have both pvs-14 night vision and ps32 FLIR, they cost about the same and I find myself using the ps32 more. I can scan the field in front of my house with the ps32 and many times I can not find the animals with the pvs-14 even though I now know where they are.


PVS-14 Night Vision VS PS32 Forward looking infrared.
PVS-14 has Super long battery life one AA battery will run it 40 hours. PS32 has internal lithium ion battery that last about 5 hours before recharging.
PVS-14 can be used behind many rifle sites that have night vision setting like an Eotech 
PVS-14 can look through glass the PS32 will not see through glass but will see reflection in the glass like a mirror (reason why you can't use it behind a scope or red dot site.
PVS-14 you can walk around at night with very little ambient light or use the ir light on the unit. PS32 resolution depends on the difference of temperatures of its surroundings.
PVS-14 works in real time, the PS32 is like looking through a movie camera with a 9 hertz camera so you can not move it real fast.
PVS-14 you can recognize the person you are looking at, The PS32 show heat so even at a few feet away you could not tell 100% who you are looking at.
PS32 is like an extra sense in that you see heat, when you look at a car you can not read the licence plate, but you can tell about how long ago the car has been driven or if it has been sitting in the same place very long.
PS32 also has the available to see the level of propane or water in a tank, see if something electrical is on see if electricity is going through wires. 
PS32 does not need any light at all you cant tell the difference if the room is totally dark are completely lit up.
PS32 the heat from living creatures make them look like lighted Christmas displays. You will see animals (or people) that you would not see with the PVS-14 you can scan a complete field in a couple of seconds.

Cool factor 
PVS-14 8 out of 10 great turning night into day
PS32 9 out of 10 you can write on the wall with you finger and then watch the writing slowly melt away or see you foot prints if bare footed. 
PS32 has an instant red modes that make locating animal or humans even faster. 
Weight and size they are about the same but the PS32 has much better location of controls.


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## Deebo

JUST EAT MORE CARROTS.....Na. I wanna try some, hands on, before I purchase anything.


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## Lucky Jim

I'm no expert so correct me if I'm wrong but i think the 3 types of night vision devices are-
1- *Passive Infra-red *is the best type but very expensive, it can see even in pitch-black conditions, for example in a totally dark cellar it'd easily pic up a warm mouse, and in a black countryside it'd see warm cattle and sheep for miles. 
2- *Active infra-red *shines an invisible IR light which the camera picks up as it reflects back off objects, but the range is only about 50 (?) yards 
3- *Image intensifier *is the well-known green glow device which magnifies whatever faint ambient light there is such as starlight, but if everywhere is pitch black it won't see a thing.


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## rickkyw1720pf

Lucky Jim said:


> I'm no expert so correct me if I'm wrong but i think the 3 types of night vision devices are-
> 1- *Passive Infra-red *is the best type but very expensive, it can see even in pitch-black conditions, for example in a totally dark cellar it'd easily pic up a warm mouse, and in a black countryside it'd see warm cattle and sheep for miles.
> 2- *Active infra-red *shines an invisible IR light which the camera picks up as it reflects back off objects, but the range is only about 50 (?) yards
> 3- *Image intensifier *is the well-known green glow device which magnifies whatever faint ambient light there is such as starlight, but if everywhere is pitch black it won't see a thing.


Passive Infra-red is a term usually used for sensors. like motion detectors used in the house. In the US the device you are talking about is normally referred to as FLIR (forward looking infrared) they use detection of infrared radiation, typically emitted from a heat source, to create a "picture" assembled for video output.

Active infra-red can be just about any camera that sees infra-red light, many video cameras can see infra-red to a degree even your smart phone (watch your TV remote through one) they do not have to have light gathering or amplification ability.

Image intensifier is what is normally used for night vision equipment. They typically can amplify light 30,000 to 60,000 times and they also amplify light very good in the infrared range so some come with a Ir illuminator for complete dark or very low light.


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## Piratesailor

Interesting.. I have a video camera that has "night vision". I've played with it on and off but never where it was completely dark with zero light or just star light.


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## Nathan Jefferson

Yeah, I should probably change/amend my recommendation above. If you can afford PVS-14 or a FLIR, get the flir and a Gen 1 NVG. Now that I have m mediocre but capably NVG a FLIR is ahead of a real PVS-14 on my wish/dream list.


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## rickkyw1720pf

Nathan Jefferson said:


> Yeah, I should probably change/amend my recommendation above. If you can afford PVS-14 or a FLIR, get the flir and a Gen 1 NVG. Now that I have m mediocre but capably NVG a FLIR is ahead of a real PVS-14 on my wish/dream list.


Flir vs PSV-14 What are your intended uses
PSV-14 is better at seeing things at night
Flir PS-32 much better at seeing living things.

Looking through the Flir notice that the background is not nearly as clear as it would be looking through a psv-14 but with the ps32 flir that deer is pretty hard to miss.


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## Nathan Jefferson

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Flir vs PSV-14 What are your intended uses
> PSV-14 is better at seeing things at night
> Flir PS-32 much better at seeing living things.
> 
> Looking through the Flir notice that the background is not nearly as clear as it would be looking through a psv-14 but with the ps32 flir that deer is pretty hard to miss.


I have 2 gen 1 NVGs, and there are 2 more gen 1s at my BOL, although one is a scope that i wouldn't ever really trust for much of anything...(That should be another recommendation, stay away from scopes! unless, once again you are paying for military grade hardware, which costs $$$$$)

I want FLIR for 'scanning' the area during the day and night. a quick scan of a couple of minutes with a FLIR I think would be much more effective than someone just scanning with BINOs. The idea is that FLIR will help me identify anyone or anything approaching through brush/grass/etc.

My theory is that the FLIR would be a much better 'force multiplier' than even high end NVG, but at ~$3000a pop it will be just a theory for quite a while.


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## rickkyw1720pf

Nathan Jefferson said:


> I have 2 gen 1 NVGs, and there are 2 more gen 1s at my BOL, although one is a scope that i wouldn't ever really trust for much of anything...(That should be another recommendation, stay away from scopes! unless, once again you are paying for military grade hardware, which costs $$$$$)
> 
> I want FLIR for 'scanning' the area during the day and night. a quick scan of a couple of minutes with a FLIR I think would be much more effective than someone just scanning with BINOs. The idea is that FLIR will help me identify anyone or anything approaching through brush/grass/etc.
> 
> My theory is that the FLIR would be a much better 'force multiplier' than even high end NVG, but at ~$3000a pop it will be just a theory for quite a while.


That is the perfect thing the Flir is good at, but you don't need to scan for a couple of minutes. Depending on your setting any living thing will glow and even if it is behind a bush what ever part isn't hidden will glow so you may not know what is behind the bush, but you know something hot is there. I can scan the woods in front of my house at night with the ps32 flir and within a few seconds I know if there is any animals there, Then I switch to the PSV-14 and many times I can't see the animals with the PSV-14 night vision even though I know exactly where they are and there are even street lights around that helps the PSV-14 NV.

If you asked me now which one would I give up the PVS-14 or PS32, it would be like asking me what do I want to give up my eye sight or hearing the PS32 is actually like giving you an extra sense one of seeing heat.

There is a ps24 that is a lot cheaper but it doesn't have the 2x magnifier and not nearly as good of a display. Also remember when scanning with a Flir you can not look through glass or you will just see yourself holding the flir.


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## Montana Rancher

At this point if you have $2000 to spend on ammo or a thermal imager I would suggest the latter, knowing someone is coming is a lot better that an extra 2000 rounds behind your headboard.

The thermal imager picks up all heat and it is amazing how much heat a tree gives off, but since you can expect a coordinated attack just before dawn, by that time the differences in heat signatures are better and it really helps identify threats.

I'd kill for a Thermal imaging Site (TIS) that I had back in my tanker days, now that was a piece of technology.


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## Lucky Jim

I hear there's "Anti-IR clothing" being developed that eliminates or cuts down your IR signature.
So it'd be a good idea to carry an IR device AND an image intensifer so you can switch between the two every few seconds.


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## rickkyw1720pf

Lucky Jim said:


> I hear there's "Anti-IR clothing" being developed that eliminates or cuts down your IR signature.
> So it'd be a good idea to carry an IR device AND an image intensifer so you can switch between the two every few seconds.


That video didn't tell the true story, remember thermo imaging uses heat and as soon as that coat starts to warm up he will show up like the man next to him. Actually the thermo imaging makes a picture by showing the differences of the temperatures in the frame. If you look at a power cable with the sky as a background the cable will be white, but if you look at a power cable with a tree (warm) in the background the cable will be black. Probably putting on wet clothes would work as good.


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## Nathan Jefferson

rickkyw1720pf said:


> That video didn't tell the true story, remember thermo imaging uses heat and as soon as that coat starts to warm up he will show up like the man next to him. Actually the thermo imaging makes a picture by showing the differences of the temperatures in the frame. If you look at a power cable with the sky as a background the cable will be white, but if you look at a power cable with a tree (warm) in the background the cable will be black. Probably putting on wet clothes would work as good.


Yeah, didn't any of you see Predator? When Arnie was covered in mud he was invisible, but as it dried he could be seen again! 

So, i've decided to go ahead and work towards that FLIR now, it is moving from the someday-maybe list to, the only thing before anything else. Means my Dillon 650 moves back a few spots . And gonna pawn off my M&P to make it move a little faster .


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## GHOST01

Well a cheap FLIR alternative is the SEEK outdoor camera. Can see out to 1800ft I believe. Hooks to your smartphone. There are some good videos on YouTube about it.


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## MikeyPrepper

Here is the one i got. I love it. Works very well. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...87f-4fc1-bab6-e800bc85ba25&pf_rd_i=3304289011


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## MaterielGeneral

I have a couple goggles called eyeclops. They are considered toys but they use surveillance camera technology with IR lights so you can see about 50' in total darkness. Something I am slowly working on is battery operated motion lights. Once SHTF turns into WROL then I will emplace them near my outer perimeter and then closer to the inner perimeter. Why battery operated? Solar will not work in thick woods if it cannot get sunlight. Where there is sunlight I will place solar motion lights. 

Sure let someone using night vision or thermal come onto my posted no trespassing or I will kill you property. They cannot hide from motion activated or trip wire booby trap alarms. Neighbors will be warned to keep kids and anyone else off of property at this time. Not responsible for stupidity if they ignore the warning.


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## haja

I have a Yashica camera that can take picture in total darkness. it shine a infrared light which is not visible to eyes n take picture.
I use it in my ghost hunting adventure n caught some scary picture.


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## TGus

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Passive Infra-red is a term usually used for sensors. like motion detectors used in the house. In the US the device you are talking about is normally referred to as FLIR (forward looking infrared) they use detection of infrared radiation, typically emitted from a heat source, to create a "picture" assembled for video output.
> 
> Active infra-red can be just about any camera that sees infra-red light, many video cameras can see infra-red to a degree even your smart phone (watch your TV remote through one) they do not have to have light gathering or amplification ability.
> 
> Image intensifier is what is normally used for night vision equipment. They typically can amplify light 30,000 to 60,000 times and they also amplify light very good in the infrared range so some come with a Ir illuminator for complete dark or very low light.


Mine has all 3, plus 4x magnification. Unfortunately, it doesn't come with eye cups, which are VERY important. If you're watching people, you don't want them to see the light coming out of the eyepiece; it sort of destroys your intention of being unseen by them. Another problem I have with these devices is that the output is so bright, it blinds that eye for night vision for a minute afterwards. I plan on adding an eye cup fitted with a red filter to it to eliminate these problems.

Another thing I'd like to do is add IR laser sights to some of my guns, so I can use the image intensifier in conjunction with them, in near complete darkness, and without the target noticing a dot on them.


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