# Florida Bank Shooting



## The Resister

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...-opens-fire-inside-suntrust-branch/ar-BBSEcT4

I have posted many times here how mass shooters are created. So far, I'm three for three and if SSRIs are involved, then somebody out there better be willing to take a hint.

He was between 18 and 40

White

Male


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...-opens-fire-inside-suntrust-branch/ar-BBSEcT4
> 
> I have posted many times here how mass shooters are created. So far, I'm three for three and if SSRIs are involved, then somebody out there better be willing to take a hint.
> 
> He was between 18 and 40
> 
> White
> 
> Male


"They" know, so they don't need the hint.

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will as I don't care.


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## StratMaster

I hate being the one to add this... really... but all facts have to be considered. AND I could be part of the conspiracy, so do take care! I have been on SSRI's for decades. They are NOT just utilized for psychological issues like depression, Bipolar, anxiety etc.... but are also prescribed for some neurological issues... which I have. I started on Imipramine in my 20,s, been on Prozac, Wellbutrin, Paxal, and now Sertraline (Zoloft). Never went nuts and shot anyone. Never felt out of control in any way. Functioned just fine all the time. Mitigated my neurological conditions very well! It HAS made me a chemical neuter, but I had already hung up my spurs a few years ago anyway. Craziest thing I have done is join this forum... something to consider I guess.


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## Steven

why don't bank tellers have guns? um... they do get robbed a lot so it only seems like common sense! Plus if they allowed OTHER people to have guns then banks would be much safer wouldn't they?


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## Chipper

Reason why I will no longer go into a bank unarmed. It's concealed and what they don't know won't matter.


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## Camel923

@Chipper is right. The best place to be armed is where it is forbidden. That more often that not it seems is where things happen.


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## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> I hate being the one to add this... really... but all facts have to be considered. AND I could be part of the conspiracy, so do take care! I have been on SSRI's for decades. They are NOT just utilized for psychological issues like depression, Bipolar, anxiety etc.... but are also prescribed for some neurological issues... which I have. I started on Imipramine in my 20,s, been on Prozac, Wellbutrin, Paxal, and now Sertraline (Zoloft). Never went nuts and shot anyone. Never felt out of control in any way. Functioned just fine all the time. Mitigated my neurological conditions very well! It HAS made me a chemical neuter, but I had already hung up my spurs a few years ago anyway. Craziest thing I have done is join this forum... something to consider I guess.


Doctors can prescribe drugs for a host of conditions. IF you are prescribed SSRIs for something OTHER THAN a psychological issue, I'm sure that a law could be constructed to help you around the requirement of having to go through other forms of treatment before drugs. The fact remains, many of our youth are manufactured drug addicts - and it is their parents, the government, doctors / mental health officials and Big Pharma that are destroying us.


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## The Resister

Guess where this shooter met his girlfriend...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-...death-talked-about-killing-before-friends-say

I'm still betting on SSRIs and this stuff calls into question the need to keep dangerous people in jail, prison, or protective custody so that they don't harm others. Unfortunately, I'm right again and we need that discussion I keep talking about.


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## The Tourist

*@Chipper*, in my town they Credit Union still allows CCW--and I asked a teller to confirm that. We can CCW here, but not open carry, not as a violation but probably due to decorum.

*@The Resister*, usually I don't read your stuff. More correctly, I cannot, I put you on ignore. I got the gist after Denton posted.

Clearly, you goofed again. According to your theorem, most of the Chicago blacks must be on SSRI meds. Per capita, they kill more of each other than patients on meds _*kill anybody*_.

There are drug reactions with any med, which is why I'm researching CBD oil for anxiety. And guess who told me about it? My psychiatrist has her sons on it. She said that no matter how her oldest boy gets out of bed (he's a tweener and moody) a couple of drops of this oil under his tongue has him leveled out in minutes. Are there hippie burn-outs who abused cannabis? Well, of course, and they're just as dangerous with an automobile as a firearm. So should the state of Wisconsin arrest any alumni who owns a Ken Kesey paperback?

BTW, have you ever read a book?


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> There are drug reactions with any med, which is why I'm researching CBD oil for anxiety. And guess who told me about it? My psychiatrist has her sons on it. She said that no matter how her oldest boy gets out of bed (he's a tweener and moody) a couple of drops of this oil under his tongue has him leveled out in minutes. Are there hippie burn-outs who abused cannabis? Well, of course, and they're just as dangerous with an automobile as a firearm. So should the state of Wisconsin arrest any alumni who owns a Ken Kesey paperback?
> 
> BTW, have you ever read a book?


Good luck with that!


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## Deebo

So, millions of people are on SSTI meds, and I took some for a year, I AM NOT A murderer.
Blame the person, not the gun, not the medication. THE PERSON.


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## The Tourist

Annie said:


> Good luck with that!


Annie, you're going to find this incredibly hard to believe, but most bikers don't like some people. I know, I know, most of America loves us. For example, I'm always first at the cafe' for coffee. I could walk in last, and barista manager, runs to get my coffee, she hands it to me, refuses to take my money and always ends with a loving salutation of, "Here's you coffee, _*now go*_!

Ya' know, I could feel the love just typing that.

Frankly, I don't like know-it-alls, which is why I do not like The Repressor. If I don't know about something, I ask questions. Yesterday RedLion and I had a debate. He brought up some salient points, and after the exchange I rightly said that he had won, and convinced me. No one knows everything. Bikes I know, knives I know, but I still have to ask my wife what setting we wash blue jeans upon in the clothes-washer. When she was sick, she got into a chair in the kitchen, and walked me through cooking dinner. She rested, and I learned a skill.

I cannot work on my 1997 F-150. I never learned about fuel injection.


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## Deebo

It takes STRENGTH to admit weakness.


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## The Resister

Deebo said:


> So, millions of people are on SSTI meds, and I took some for a year, I AM NOT A murderer.
> Blame the person, not the gun, not the medication. THE PERSON.


Now, you're being silly. The drugs were* NEVER *the issue. Deebo, Are you a

1) A white male

2) Between 18 and 40

3) History of being on drugs beginning at an early age - maybe starting with Ritalin or Adderall

4) Have the police been to your house more than twice in a 12 month period

5) Can people say this about you, as they did our current shooter:

"_Alex Gerlach told WSBT-TV, in South Bend, Indiana, that Xaver "for some reason always hated people and wanted everybody to die."

"He got kicked out of school for having a dream that he killed everybody in his class, and he's been threatening this for so long, and he's been having dreams about it and everything," she said. "Every single person I've told has not taken it seriously, and it's very unfortunate that it had to come to this_."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/motive-u...ooting-gunman-no-connection-to-victims-police

If you fit that profile, you don't need a gun. You need to be in protective custody. When we *KNOW* that an individual is, most likely, going to commit an act of violence, we have a duty to act. The treatment must be appropriate to the condition. Whether you take SSRIs is irrelevant, but then maybe not if you're trying to be serious. Shame on you for misrepresenting my posts.


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## The Resister

Deebo said:


> It takes STRENGTH to admit weakness.


It takes courage to admit that you cannot comprehend what others are telling you? Do YOU have that courage?


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## Deebo

The Resister said:


> It takes courage to admit that you cannot comprehend what others are telling you? Do YOU have that courage?


Didn't I just say "I cant comprehend your argument", it was early and I was on my first cup of coffee.
And, the quote about strength to admit weakness was directed at @The Tourist.
Frankly, too much thought is taken trying to even think on your level. I am not happy, but I CANT spend my time trying to understand you..
Good day, AMIGO.


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## The Tourist

*@Deebo*, I thank you, and I understood who it was sent to instantly.

Now, The Repressor tries to act and write in a learned, uptown style. Yet, he cannot discern a few lines of text and the flow of a debate in a forum.

I'm waiting for him to debate Cricket or Denton, until the bitter end, two combatants walk in, one comes out.


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## Kauboy

Chipper said:


> Reason why I will no longer go into a bank unarmed. It's concealed and what they don't know won't matter.


None of my local banks restrict concealed carry.
I love smaller Texas towns.
:tango_face_grin:


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## luminaughty

The murderer killed five people in the bank from what I understand. I did not read anything about survivors. The murderer called the police to tell them he had shot people inside the bank. If all of this is true it is clear the crime was not a robbery but instead an intentional mass shooting carried out on a soft target (gun free zone). If true the next thing we should ask is if the gunman had already opened fire why did the law enforcement spend so much time trying to get him to surrender knowing he had already opened fire on the people inside the bank? Would any of the victims survived if they had received medical attention earlier? The gunman did not want to die or he would not have surrendered so he must of wanted his five minutes of fame. Maybe I am missing something but if what I have read is correct it appears that the idiot wanted to be famous.


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## Deebo

True @luminaughty, but remember, we are only told what "the news tells us", In this case, I do believe your right.


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## The Tourist

I heard on the radio (and it was on "breaking news," so be advised) that all five of the victims were women. Not only does it derive a real mental problem, but it could be that he could not find his ex-wife and he needed a victim or victims.

Remember, he called the police. How long he spent over the bodies is a call to be made by the coroner, and we might never get a report on an open case.


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## StratMaster

Deebo said:


> It takes STRENGTH to admit weakness.


Or in my case, a feeble croak to admit weakness...


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## MisterMills357

Steven said:


> why don't bank tellers have guns? um... they do get robbed a lot so it only seems like common sense! Plus if they allowed OTHER people to have guns then banks would be much safer wouldn't they?


Steven, the banks do not care, and it is just written off as a part of doing business, when tellers are killed. After all, it is only an concessional thing you know. 
Or that is what banks tell themselves I suppose.



Chipper said:


> Reason why I will no longer go into a bank unarmed. It's concealed and what they don't know won't matter.


I am with Chipper, I will arm myself and remain quiet about it.


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## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> IF you are prescribed SSRIs for something OTHER THAN a psychological issue, I'm sure that a law could be constructed to help you around the requirement of having to go through other forms of treatment before drugs.


 I'm not trying to be intentionally dense, but I didn't quite follow this statement. To be clear, I AM prescribed these meds for a physiological (rather than psychological) malady, and there ARE no other treatments available.

Very helpful in mitigating CSD (or PPPV), Migraine Associated Vertigo, and Meniere's Disease as well. There are currently studies being done with SSRI medications to inhibit the progression of MS symptoms.

Is there a plot to disable our children with medications? I'm going to go with a no on that. Is it expedient and profitable to prescribe meds for a problem which would otherwise require hours/months/years of counseling or intervention? Absolutely. As a parent, I would have insisted on the non-drug approach, and been HEAVILY involved in it as well. That world is gone now.


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## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> I'm not trying to be intentionally dense, but I didn't quite follow this statement. To be clear, I AM prescribed these meds for a physiological (rather than psychological) malady, and there ARE no other treatments available.
> 
> Very helpful in mitigating CSD (or PPPV), Migraine Associated Vertigo, and Meniere's Disease as well. There are currently studies being done with SSRI medications to inhibit the progression of MS symptoms.
> 
> Is there a plot to disable our children with medications? I'm going to go with a no on that. Is it expedient and profitable to prescribe meds for a problem which would otherwise require hours/months/years of counseling or intervention? Absolutely. As a parent, I would have insisted on the non-drug approach, and been HEAVILY involved in it as well. That world is gone now.


I don't know that there is a "_plot_." I don't care if you vote and say yes or no. This is my line of work. I've worked as a foster parent; worked in social services networks, and now am a minister that works with families. So, what I'm telling you is not theory or belief. It is *government policy*.

As a foster parent, the first thing the government does is to put kids on s*edatives, Ritalin, or maybe Adderall*. If a school counselor thinks a child is "_hyperactive_," the doctors whip out the pad and give 'em drugs. America leads the nation in drug addicts. That is an indisputable and irrefutable fact.

With opioids alone, the United States consumes *80 percent of the world's opioid supply* and it nets us over *70,000* overdoses per year (more than twice the number of Americans killed by firearms from all total categories - mass shootings, homicide, suicide, police actions, war, etc.)

Kids are mixing opioids with SSRIs and dying on a daily basis:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/fda-warning-involving-opioid-prescriptions-antidepressants#1

SSRIs and mass shootings have a connection that is indisputable:

https://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html

https://www.corbettreport.com/medicated-to-death-ssris-and-mass-killings/

https://ssristories.org/

You get all defensive because I laid out the conditions of a specific class of individuals who need to go through other options* before* taking SSRIs. You think I said ban SSRIs or don't prescribe them. I don't know your background nor your history. What I'm going to say to you is short and sweet:

Before I would give a feel good drug to *ANY* person under 18, I would exhaust ALL other avenues unless that person had a specific, identifiable condition that a doctor would bank his career on. Since we have more drug addicts than any nation on this planet, I think the policy we have allowed government to adopt speaks volumes.


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## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> I don't know that there is a "_plot_." I don't care if you vote and say yes or no. This is my line of work. I've worked as a foster parent; worked in social services networks, and now am a minister that works with families. So, what I'm telling you is not theory or belief. It is *government policy*.
> 
> As a foster parent, the first thing the government does is to put kids on s*edatives, Ritalin, or maybe Adderall*. If a school counselor thinks a child is "_hyperactive_," the doctors whip out the pad and give 'em drugs. America leads the nation in drug addicts. That is an indisputable and irrefutable fact.
> 
> With opioids alone, the United States consumes *80 percent of the world's opioid supply* and it nets us over *70,000* overdoses per year (more than twice the number of Americans killed by firearms from all total categories - mass shootings, homicide, suicide, police actions, war, etc.)
> 
> Kids are mixing opioids with SSRIs and dying on a daily basis:
> 
> https://www.healthline.com/health-news/fda-warning-involving-opioid-prescriptions-antidepressants#1
> 
> SSRIs and mass shootings have a connection that is indisputable:
> 
> https://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html
> 
> https://www.corbettreport.com/medicated-to-death-ssris-and-mass-killings/
> 
> https://ssristories.org/
> 
> *You get all defensive because I laid out the conditions of a specific class of individuals who need to go through other options before taking SSRIs. * You think I said ban SSRIs or don't prescribe them. I don't know your background nor your history. What I'm going to say to you is short and sweet:
> 
> Before I would give a feel good drug to *ANY* person under 18, I would exhaust ALL other avenues unless that person had a specific, identifiable condition that a doctor would bank his career on. Since we have more drug addicts than any nation on this planet, I think the policy we have allowed government to adopt speaks volumes.


Ummm... actually, I just asked you to clarify a single sentence which wasn't clear to me in it's meaning. That's all. Dude, you have some emotional/histrionic issues.


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## Slippy

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/expanded-homicide

If you believe the FBI stats, blacks commit approx 54% of murders; whites commit approx 43%, non whites approx 3%, balance unknown. Note, government reports allow hispanics to check white or black so hispanics who murder may be lumped into either black or white.

The reality is that a group of people, (blacks) who are approx 13% of the population, commit the vast majority of violent crimes.


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## stevekozak

The Resister said:


> Guess where this shooter met his girlfriend...
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-...death-talked-about-killing-before-friends-say
> 
> I'm still betting on SSRIs and this stuff calls into question the need to keep dangerous people in jail, prison, or protective custody so that they don't harm others. Unfortunately, I'm right again and we need that discussion I keep talking about.


Who gets to decide who are "dangerous people"? I don't think I like your plan.


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## stevekozak

Kauboy said:


> None of my local banks restrict concealed carry.
> I love smaller Texas towns.
> :tango_face_grin:


The banks I use don't restrict carry, period! I have always thought it silly for banks to post "no firearms" signs. The place I go to get and give large amounts of money would seem to be the best place for me to have the ability to prohibit the illegal taking of such.


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## stevekozak

luminaughty said:


> The murderer killed five people in the bank from what I understand. I did not read anything about survivors. The murderer called the police to tell them he had shot people inside the bank. If all of this is true it is clear the crime was not a robbery but instead an intentional mass shooting carried out on a soft target (gun free zone). If true the next thing we should ask is if the gunman had already opened fire why did the law enforcement spend so much time trying to get him to surrender knowing he had already opened fire on the people inside the bank? Would any of the victims survived if they had received medical attention earlier? The gunman did not want to die or he would not have surrendered so he must of wanted his five minutes of fame. Maybe I am missing something but if what I have read is correct it appears that the idiot wanted to be famous.


I'd be curious to know which of Soros's people convinced this dim-bulb that it would be cool to do this......


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## stevekozak

The Resister said:


> I don't know that there is a "_plot_." I've worked as a foster parent; worked in social services networks, and now am a minister that works with families. So, what I'm telling you is not theory or belief. It is *government policy*.
> 
> As a foster parent, the first thing the government does is to put kids on s*edatives, Ritalin, or maybe Adderall*. If a school counselor thinks a child is "_hyperactive_," the doctors whip out the pad and give 'em drugs. America leads the nation in drug addicts. That is an indisputable and irrefutable fact.
> 
> Before I would give a feel good drug to *ANY* person under 18, I would exhaust ALL other avenues unless that person had a specific, identifiable condition that a doctor would bank his career on. Since we have more drug addicts than any nation on this planet, I think the policy we have allowed government to adopt speaks volumes.


You are absolutely right about the approach to our kids today. The system policy seems to be to try to medicate away any issues, and then medicate to reduce the issues the medications causes, and rinse and repeat. I agree with you 100% about trying all other options before chemicals. You are spot on about this piece. That said, the idea of you being responsible for foster youth scares me for them.


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## The Tourist

StratMaster said:


> Ummm... actually, I just asked you to clarify a single sentence which wasn't clear to me in it's meaning. That's all. Dude, you have some emotional/histrionic issues.


After actually reading what Repressor wrote, I have a better idea on how he ticks. He mentioned being a minister and a foster parent, and that gave me somewhat of an inside into his posts. He's a lot like my father, who was an engineer.

These guys are programmed to "fix things." As an engineer, my dad's implied position is that when I proffered my opinion, he'd shoot it down. From his perspective, if there was a better way to build a mousetrap, he would have chosen that design instead. His designs accomplished goals, were made with the fewest, simplest parts, and then torture tested. The first dial-combination lock went to schools--talk about torture testing.

And so it is with Repressor. He sees the valid, tangible wrongs in the world, and like my dad, he has the "golden ticket" idea. And also like my father, he views the world in terms of "right and wrong" where society is a bell-shaped curve. And again like my father, Repressor seems to have long proven "speeches." In fact, if my dad spoke three of four words of a sentence or interrogation, I would probably think, _"Oh, that must speech Number 17, entitled 'You And Your Long Hair.'..."_

I now pity Repressor. It hard to live in the world when so many refuse to come up to his standards.


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## The Resister

The Resister said:


> I don't know that there is a "_plot_." I don't care if you vote and say yes or no. This is my line of work. I've worked as a foster parent; worked in social services networks, and now am a minister that works with families. So, what I'm telling you is not theory or belief. It is *government policy*.
> 
> As a foster parent, the first thing the government does is to put kids on s*edatives, Ritalin, or maybe Adderall*. If a school counselor thinks a child is "_hyperactive_," the doctors whip out the pad and give 'em drugs. America leads the nation in drug addicts. That is an indisputable and irrefutable fact.
> 
> With opioids alone, the United States consumes *80 percent of the world's opioid supply* and it nets us over *70,000* overdoses per year (more than twice the number of Americans killed by firearms from all total categories - mass shootings, homicide, suicide, police actions, war, etc.)
> 
> Kids are mixing opioids with SSRIs and dying on a daily basis:
> 
> https://www.healthline.com/health-news/fda-warning-involving-opioid-prescriptions-antidepressants#1
> 
> SSRIs and mass shootings have a connection that is indisputable:
> 
> https://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html
> 
> https://www.corbettreport.com/medicated-to-death-ssris-and-mass-killings/
> 
> https://ssristories.org/
> 
> You get all defensive because I laid out the conditions of a specific class of individuals who need to go through other options* before* taking SSRIs. You think I said ban SSRIs or don't prescribe them. I don't know your background nor your history. What I'm going to say to you is short and sweet:
> 
> Before I would give a feel good drug to *ANY* person under 18, I would exhaust ALL other avenues unless that person had a specific, identifiable condition that a doctor would bank his career on. Since we have more drug addicts than any nation on this planet, I think the policy we have allowed government to adopt speaks volumes.


*I DID NOT REALIZE THE QUOTE FEATURE QUOTED THE WRONG POST. THIS POST IS IN RESPONSE TO STRATMASTER IN POST # 26 (IIRC)*

You are probably right. Then again, the numbers of mass shootings are tied directly to the use of SSRIs (though not everyone who takes SSRIs is going to commit a violent act.) If you put someone on SSRIs who is in the at risk category and they kill someone, the individual prescribing the drugs, *in my opinion*, is equally guilty of the shootings. I thought you opened a door and it's one worth exploring. How come virtually all mass shooters are young white males? If there is no plot (and I don't think I would attribute this to something that simple) explain this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-...rescription-than-african-americans-hispanics/

https://www.verywellmind.com/should-my-teen-take-an-antidepressant-3200841

The above link doesn't even mention that the* KNOWN* side effects of SSRIs on teens is homicidal and suicidal thoughts. The doctors advise counseling in addition to the drugs, but my position is for teens to go through group counseling, then one on one counseling, AND rule out environmental factors along with living conditions in the home. A dysfunctional home might be the root cause of the teen's problems.

Whether intended or not, most mass shooters are white and most of their victims are white. How do YOU explain it?


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## The Resister

Slippy said:


> https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/expanded-homicide
> 
> If you believe the FBI stats, blacks commit approx 54% of murders; whites commit approx 43%, non whites approx 3%, balance unknown. Note, government reports allow hispanics to check white or black so hispanics who murder may be lumped into either black or white.
> 
> The reality is that a group of people, (blacks) who are approx 13% of the population, commit the vast majority of violent crimes.


While that is true, my plan is to curtail mass shootings and virtually all of those are committed by white males - and it is that way for a very specific reason. Let's solve one issue at a time.


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## The Resister

stevekozak said:


> You are absolutely right about the approach to our kids today. The system policy seems to be to try to medicate away any issues, and then medicate to reduce the issues the medications causes, and rinse and repeat. I agree with you 100% about trying all other options before chemicals. You are spot on about this piece. That said, the idea of you being responsible for foster youth scares me for them.


That makes you at least as dangerous as I am... and saying things to people you dare not say to their face is a testament to your character.


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## StratMaster

Assumptions are being made here. What other factors are ALSO tied directly to these kids? One would be the fact that they were all BASKET CASES to begin with: there's a reason they were put on SSRI's. So, the common denominator could just as likely be nut cases who would have committed these acts REGARDLESS of medication... that it was going to happen anyway. There is simply NOT enough data to assert causality, no matter how adamantly one FEELS about it as a likelihood.

This was going on before the advent of SSRI's:

"Although many of us don't enjoy the start of the work week, Brenda Ann Spencer had a really bad case of the Monday blues. In 1979, Spencer was convicted of the Cleveland Elementary School shooting. That morning, Spencer shot the principal, a custodian, a police officer, and eight children as they were entering the school. The shootings were committed from Spencer's home, just across the street from the targeted school.

At just 16 years old, Spencer was charged as an adult and pleaded guilty to two counts of murder and assault with a deadly weapon. Ultimately, she was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison, where she remains to this day. When a reporter asked Spencer why she did it, she simply answered: "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day."

Sometimes, it's hard to tell just what pushes a young person to commit horrific crimes. Barry Dale Loukaitis's case is one of those. On February 2, 1996, Loukaitis walked from his home to his school, Frontier Middle School, armed with a .30-30 caliber hunting rifle and two handguns. He entered his algebra class and opened fire at students and his algebra teacher. Loukaitis killed three, students Arnold Fritz and Manuel Vela and teacher Leona Caries. He also critically injured 13-year-old Natalie Hintz.

Eric was riding his bike to summer camp when he saw 4-year-old Derrick Robie walking alone to the same camp. Smith lured Robie into a wooded area where we strangled him, hit him with a large rock, undressed his body, and sodomized him with a tree limb. Six days later, Smith confessed to his mother that he murdered Robie; law enforcement was informed of the crime later that night. On August 16, 1994, Smith was convicted of second-degree murder and was sentenced to the maximum term for teen murderers: a minimum of nine years to life in prison. 

Back in May 1983, Zimmer-who was only 14 years old-shot his adoptive parents and stabbed his brother. Why, you might ask? He hated living in Wisconsin.

At the time, under Wisconsin law Zimmer could not be charged as an adult. He ended up serving only four years in a juvenile facility and claimed his family's estate as the sole surviving heir. So in 1987, Zimmer walked out a free man with a clean record and a trust fund. Zimmer decided to change his name to Jovan Collier to start anew. However, old habits die hard and Collier was in the hot seat once again for stalking an ex-girlfriend in 2009. 

Sick of her parents' attempts to limit her world, Caffey convinced Wilkinson to help her kill her family, saying that it was the only way they could be together. Wilkinson's suggestions that they instead have a child or run away together were summarily dismissed. Caffey also enlisted Wilkinson's friends, Bobbi Johnson and Charles Waid to help.

At just 16 years old, Caffey came up with a plan for Wilkinson and Waid to shoot and kill her family before burning their house to the ground. Her mother and two brothers were killed, but Caffey's father Terry was able to escape. Each of the four involved with Caffey's plan is now in jail. Caffey will be eligible for parole when she is 59.

After this gruesome shooting, police found five people dead inside a house in South Valley, New Mexico. A .22-caliber rifle was used to shoot a woman and three children, while an AR-15 was used on an adult male when he arrived home. The attack was classified as a familicide. Who committed such a heinous crime? None other than the oldest son, Nehemiah Griego. In a statement to the police, Griego-15 at the time-stated that he obtained the guns from his parents' closet. Griego had been dealing with suicidal and homicidal thoughts and intended to drive off and use the guns to kill others, ideally dying in a gun battle with the police. On October 2015, Griego pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder and three counts of child abuse. Since Griego was sentenced as a minor, he is eligible to be released in late 2018. His remaining family hopes to help him access mental health care upon his release.

We could do this all night. There are nut jobs out there aplenty, and they start out as kids and adolescents... WITHOUT the excuse of SSRI's or other medications.


----------



## The Resister

The Tourist said:


> After actually reading what Repressor wrote, I have a better idea on how he ticks. He mentioned being a minister and a foster parent, and that gave me somewhat of an inside into his posts. He's a lot like my father, who was an engineer.
> 
> These guys are programmed to "fix things." As an engineer, my dad's implied position is that when I proffered my opinion, he'd shoot it down. From his perspective, if there was a better way to build a mousetrap, he would have chosen that design instead. His designs accomplished goals, were made with the fewest, simplest parts, and then torture tested. The first dial-combination lock went to schools--talk about torture testing.
> 
> And so it is with Repressor. He sees the valid, tangible wrongs in the world, and like my dad, he has the "golden ticket" idea. And also like my father, he views the world in terms of "right and wrong" where society is a bell-shaped curve. And again like my father, Repressor seems to have long proven "speeches." In fact, if my dad spoke three of four words of a sentence or interrogation, I would probably think, _"Oh, that must speech Number 17, entitled 'You And Your Long Hair.'..."_
> 
> I now pity Repressor. It hard to live in the world when so many refuse to come up to his standards.


You should pity yourself for being self absorbed and disrespectful. In the times I've disagreed with you on this thread, I've not stooped so low as to call you names. So I accept your concession of defeat. And, yes, we can choose to fix the problems OR we can forfeit our Rights.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> That makes you at least as dangerous as I am... and saying things to people you dare not say to their face is a testament to your character.


Except for the simple fact that you cannot possible know what he would be willing to say to your face. Cannot. Possibly. Know. More pointless chest beating.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> View attachment 95127
> 
> 
> Assumptions are being made here. What other factors are ALSO tied directly to these kids? One would be the fact that they were all BASKET CASES to begin with: there's a reason they were put on SSRI's. So, the common denominator could just as likely be nut cases who would have committed these acts REGARDLESS of medication... that it was going to happen anyway. There is simply NOT enough data to assert causality, no matter how adamantly one FEELS about it as a likelihood.
> 
> This was going on before the advent of SSRI's:
> 
> "Although many of us don't enjoy the start of the work week, Brenda Ann Spencer had a really bad case of the Monday blues. In 1979, Spencer was convicted of the Cleveland Elementary School shooting. That morning, Spencer shot the principal, a custodian, a police officer, and eight children as they were entering the school. The shootings were committed from Spencer's home, just across the street from the targeted school.
> 
> At just 16 years old, Spencer was charged as an adult and pleaded guilty to two counts of murder and assault with a deadly weapon. Ultimately, she was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison, where she remains to this day. When a reporter asked Spencer why she did it, she simply answered: "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day."
> 
> Sometimes, it's hard to tell just what pushes a young person to commit horrific crimes. Barry Dale Loukaitis's case is one of those. On February 2, 1996, Loukaitis walked from his home to his school, Frontier Middle School, armed with a .30-30 caliber hunting rifle and two handguns. He entered his algebra class and opened fire at students and his algebra teacher. Loukaitis killed three, students Arnold Fritz and Manuel Vela and teacher Leona Caries. He also critically injured 13-year-old Natalie Hintz.
> 
> Eric was riding his bike to summer camp when he saw 4-year-old Derrick Robie walking alone to the same camp. Smith lured Robie into a wooded area where we strangled him, hit him with a large rock, undressed his body, and sodomized him with a tree limb. Six days later, Smith confessed to his mother that he murdered Robie; law enforcement was informed of the crime later that night. On August 16, 1994, Smith was convicted of second-degree murder and was sentenced to the maximum term for teen murderers: a minimum of nine years to life in prison.
> 
> Back in May 1983, Zimmer-who was only 14 years old-shot his adoptive parents and stabbed his brother. Why, you might ask? He hated living in Wisconsin.
> 
> At the time, under Wisconsin law Zimmer could not be charged as an adult. He ended up serving only four years in a juvenile facility and claimed his family's estate as the sole surviving heir. So in 1987, Zimmer walked out a free man with a clean record and a trust fund. Zimmer decided to change his name to Jovan Collier to start anew. However, old habits die hard and Collier was in the hot seat once again for stalking an ex-girlfriend in 2009.
> 
> Sick of her parents' attempts to limit her world, Caffey convinced Wilkinson to help her kill her family, saying that it was the only way they could be together. Wilkinson's suggestions that they instead have a child or run away together were summarily dismissed. Caffey also enlisted Wilkinson's friends, Bobbi Johnson and Charles Waid to help.
> 
> At just 16 years old, Caffey came up with a plan for Wilkinson and Waid to shoot and kill her family before burning their house to the ground. Her mother and two brothers were killed, but Caffey's father Terry was able to escape. Each of the four involved with Caffey's plan is now in jail. Caffey will be eligible for parole when she is 59.
> 
> After this gruesome shooting, police found five people dead inside a house in South Valley, New Mexico. A .22-caliber rifle was used to shoot a woman and three children, while an AR-15 was used on an adult male when he arrived home. The attack was classified as a familicide. Who committed such a heinous crime? None other than the oldest son, Nehemiah Griego. In a statement to the police, Griego-15 at the time-stated that he obtained the guns from his parents' closet. Griego had been dealing with suicidal and homicidal thoughts and intended to drive off and use the guns to kill others, ideally dying in a gun battle with the police. On October 2015, Griego pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree murder and three counts of child abuse. Since Griego was sentenced as a minor, he is eligible to be released in late 2018. His remaining family hopes to help him access mental health care upon his release.
> 
> We could do this all night. There are nut jobs out there aplenty, and they start out as kids and adolescents... WITHOUT the excuse of SSRI's or other medications.


I make no assumptions. I've yet to find a mass shooting that was not tied to SSRIs, a person under the care of a mental health official OR a political jihadist. Furthermore, my plan is to clearly identify the problem. When a child has a problem, a special unit of trained professionals would look into a situation.

BEFORE pills are administered, you look for the *root cause *of the problem. You find out if a child is living in a dysfunctional home. Are the parents on drugs or alcohol? Are they abusive? Is the child's problem physiological OR psychological? Even Dr. Oz has brought other doctors to his show and discussed how doctors reach for the pen too often and write a prescription for a pill rather than seek out what is really going on. AND doctors are getting played. Mention terms like "I'm thinking about hurting myself or killing myself, I'm depressed, I'm real anxious." The right keywords will get you drugs - drugs you really don't need.

IF you want to waste time today, I got it to give. My solutions include recording the times children commit reportable offenses. Those reports end up with a special unit that gets up and physically goes out and evaluates the child *BEFORE* they act out. There ARE warning signs and if you investigate the warning signs, you can help stop the violence.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Speaking of drugs.

I have taken Hydrocodone for pain (usually tooth related) and it is wonderful for a day or 2 to get by until I see a dentist BUT if I stay on it more then 3+ days I get suicidal thoughts that cling and were constant. I fought it for half a day one time.. I knew what was causing it and knew I just had to wait until the drug wore off

I still have some and still use it as need (rarely) but never as directed (it says up to 3 times per day as needed - I will take it only as REALLY needed) I would take it at night to get sleep and maybe at noon to take edge off..... and I would get into dentist ASAP

I do not like taking any meds.. aspirin once in a while


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> Except for the simple fact that you cannot possible know what he would be willing to say to your face. Cannot. Possibly. Know. More pointless chest beating.


I'm stating a FACT. He's the one chest beating. If you have an issue with someone, you take it to PM. Chest beating is when people come here, act tough with their name calling for the accolades of those equally deluded - all for show and the emotional reaction they think they will get. If they want to call you out, they will do it in PM. You're safe on the public part of the forum. So you and I know for a FACT what caliber of individual we're dealing with.


----------



## The Resister

stevekozak said:


> Who gets to decide who are "dangerous people"? I don't think I like your plan.


"_He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him_." Proverbs 18: 13

Who gets to decide? *THEN* you don't like the plan? You didn't really want an answer to that. So, Nick Cruz has the cops summoned to his home 29 times, is expelled from school on numerous occasions, is obsessed with violence so that counselors, police and school administrators can articulate *definable warning signs* and nobody acted.

A kid threatens a teacher, is seen beating a small animal to death, and police are summoned to the home in the course of a few months. Do we act then OR, as you advocate, sit on our ass and let the carnage continue at the price of our own personal Liberty?


----------



## Deebo

Maine-Marine said:


> Speaking of drugs.
> 
> I have taken Hydrocodone for pain (usually tooth related) and it is wonderful for a day or 2 to get by until I see a dentist BUT if I stay on it more then 3+ days I get suicidal thoughts that cling and were constant. I fought it for half a day one time.. I knew what was causing it and knew I just had to wait until the drug wore off
> 
> I still have some and still use it as need (rarely) but never as directed (it says up to 3 times per day as needed - I will take it only as REALLY needed) I would take it at night to get sleep and maybe at noon to take edge off..... and I would get into dentist ASAP
> 
> I do not like taking any meds.. aspirin once in a while


HOLY SHIT SIR.
I would throw it out and try to get something else for severe pain, NOW.
I'm glad you are strong enough to recognize the issue.


----------



## Steven

MisterMills357 said:


> Steven, the banks do not care, and it is just written off as a part of doing business, when tellers are killed. After all, it is only an concessional thing you know.
> Or that is what banks tell themselves I suppose.
> 
> I am with Chipper, I will arm myself and remain quiet about it.


Maybe they need a bankm teller union to lobby for there rights and to promote the education of there rights?


----------



## MisterMills357

Steven said:


> Maybe they need a bankm teller union to lobby for there rights and to promote the education of there rights?


They are easily replaced, I see new faces at my bank about every 3 months or something. I don't think that they make much money, and any attempt at unionization, would probably fail.


----------



## Kauboy

StratMaster said:


> Dude, you have some emotional/*histrionic* issues.


TIL a new word that offers an amazing descriptor/diagnosis of a few people I know. Thank you sir.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

The Resister said:


> While that is true, my plan is to curtail mass shootings and virtually all of those are committed by white males - and it is that way for a very specific reason. Let's solve one issue at a time.


Sorry, Bucko.
In Jacksonville, Florida over 90% of "mass shootings" are done by drug gangs killing each other. Young, BLACK, males. At least once a week there is a gang shooting, usually of 3,4,or more "victims". The one anomaly was last year's whacked out guy shooting up the gamer tournament.
I'd be willing to bet that any big city with a ghetto sees the same stats as Jacksonville. Such as Baltimore, Detroit, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and many more.


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> Sorry, Bucko.
> In Jacksonville, Florida over 90% of "mass shootings" are done by drug gangs killing each other. Young, BLACK, males. At least once a week there is a gang shooting, usually of 3,4,or more "victims". The one anomaly was last year's whacked out guy shooting up the gamer tournament.
> I'd be willing to bet that any big city with a ghetto sees the same stats as Jacksonville. Such as Baltimore, Detroit, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and many more.


No citation for your source. How many people killed in these shootings? Are you now going to equate a gang shooting with a mass shooting?

Sorry buckette, but you are wrong, wrong, wrong:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/cultu...shootings-male-entitlement-toxic-masculinity/

Everytown for Gun Control, a pro-gun control non-profit that collects data on shootings, also defines a mass shooting as one in which at least four people are killed (not including the shooter) but includes shootings taking place in private homes, a circumstance the FBI omits from their methodology.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass-shootings-in-2018/

Not even using anti-gun methodologies can we reach the conclusion you did. I tried to be agreeable with you for a change, then you went all lefty on us. It's a shame.


----------



## Kauboy

rice paddy daddy said:


> Sorry, Bucko.
> In Jacksonville, Florida over 90% of "mass shootings" are done by drug gangs killing each other. Young, BLACK, males. At least once a week there is a gang shooting, usually of 3,4,or more "victims". The one anomaly was last year's whacked out guy shooting up the gamer tournament.
> I'd be willing to bet that any big city with a ghetto sees the same stats as Jacksonville. Such as Baltimore, Detroit, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and many more.


Quoted for truth...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...otings-tracker-analysis-us-gun-control-reddit

EDIT: The full NYT analysis that spawned The Guardian's article: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/...mes&smtyp=cur&referer=https://t.co/YJd9ri2m5f


----------



## rice paddy daddy

The Resister said:


> No citation for your source. How many people killed in these shootings? Are you now going to equate a gang shooting with a mass shooting?
> 
> Sorry buckette, but you are wrong, wrong, wrong:
> 
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/
> 
> https://www.harpersbazaar.com/cultu...shootings-male-entitlement-toxic-masculinity/
> 
> Everytown for Gun Control, a pro-gun control non-profit that collects data on shootings, also defines a mass shooting as one in which at least four people are killed (not including the shooter) but includes shootings taking place in private homes, a circumstance the FBI omits from their methodology.
> 
> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass-shootings-in-2018/
> 
> Not even using anti-gun methodologies can we reach the conclusion you did. I tried to be agreeable with you for a change, then you went all lefty on us. It's a shame.


A mind is like a parachute, they both work better when they are open.
Unfortunately you fell to your death a long time ago.

Whenever I see one of your posts, the adjective "buffoon" immediately comes to my mind.


----------



## Denton

rice paddy daddy said:


> Sorry, Bucko.
> In Jacksonville, Florida over 90% of "mass shootings" are done by drug gangs killing each other. Young, BLACK, males. At least once a week there is a gang shooting, usually of 3,4,or more "victims". The one anomaly was last year's whacked out guy shooting up the gamer tournament.
> I'd be willing to bet that any big city with a ghetto sees the same stats as Jacksonville. Such as Baltimore, Detroit, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, and many more.


Years ago I drove doubles for a LTL company. One of its terminals was in Jacksonville. It was the only terminal I was told by the company to use caution when arriving at it at night. Many a time I dropped and then hooked doubles that had bullet holes from stray rounds which had been fired by gang-bangers.


----------



## The Resister

Kauboy said:


> Quoted for truth...
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...otings-tracker-analysis-us-gun-control-reddit
> 
> EDIT: The full NYT analysis that spawned The Guardian's article: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/...mes&smtyp=cur&referer=https://t.co/YJd9ri2m5f


Quoted for your *version* of truth. That was a very liberal use of the term mass shootings. You have yet to see a Dylan Roof, Nick Cruz or Adam Lanza in your version of the truth. What you have are drive by shootings and drug deals gone bad - a whole different argument.

My thread deals with the part of the problem to which we can address on its own. You want it to be some freaking popularity contest like a Democrat would. Is that all you know is Democrat logic? And weren't you lying when you said you put me on ignore? Your word would not be credible outside the confines of this board. What is it you call someone who cannot tell the truth? Ignore me? You can't do it.

The mass shootings being done by whites are generally due to a specific reason. We have a much different culture than does the black community. So, you clean up your back-yard, reduce the numbers, put some proposals on the table and avert gun control. I have offered bills to stop gun control. Many say they won't pass. But, whoa... wait for it... I just found out from Larry Pratt at Gun Owners of America that he is going to *use the same, identical strategy with a different slant*. He will attach his bill as an amendment (exactly as I've been proposing *BEFORE* Pratt) and let the Dems pull their own legislation from consideration. Pratt's idea is to attach reciprocity to every piece of legislation that has anything to do with gun control.

I'm going to make this short and sweet for you Kauboy. We've already determined what you are. So, let's talk about your motives. You sit on your ass and complain about the situation, but I'd bet $1000 that you haven't done a damn thing in your life on behalf of what you claim to believe in. You probably never served in a citizen militia, never held public office, never took a case to court that would have helped us. All you do is complain and when you find people you don't like you seek out people who are just as uninformed and dishonest as you. Then you want to hold a public lynching instead of building a bridge toward bringing people together to fight gun control.

Misery loves company and you'll be wherever there are pessimists and ignorant people. Son you are a detriment to the cause, a cancer on the face of humanity, and you'd rather engage in and initiate divisiveness rather than to help solve problems and avert the liberals complete takeover of our Republic. Screw you.


----------



## Deebo

Come on @Resister,
First you call RPD a buckette, when clearly a "bucko" is term that everyone uses for fella,
Then you Kauboy SON, and tell him Screw you..
The very things you get upset about when we say things to you.


----------



## The Tourist

rice paddy daddy said:


> Whenever I see one of your posts, the adjective "buffoon" immediately comes to my mind.


I've been corresponding with Repressor, and I have suggested he simply back away from the forum for a few weeks, I've done it. If he keeps this up, one of the moderators will give him a "mandatory vacation." I've even seen Annie stand and deliver. When you tick off a Christian, you're already in over your head and need to cool down.


----------



## Denton

You people should be put in a cage and it should be televised. Either that or we should make a PF "Yo Mama" YouTube show. Either way, those who own PF would make a fortune!


----------



## Kauboy

Deebo said:


> Come on @Resister,
> First you call RPD a buckette, when clearly a "bucko" is term that everyone uses for fella,
> Then you Kauboy SON, and tell him Screw you..
> The very things you get upset about when we say things to you.


Did he?
I don't read his replies. The forum's ignore feature improves one's outlook on life considerably.
He isn't a reasoned individual, and only wants his opinion known. All dissent is wrong and must be discredited with personal attacks.
I found out that arguing with him or ignoring him yield the same result. He's wrong either way, and his mind won't be changed.
I highly recommend treating all such people the same. :tango_face_wink:


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> I make no assumptions. I've yet to find a mass shooting that was not tied to SSRIs, a person under the care of a mental health official OR a political jihadist.


That's why I listed them for you... so you could easily find them. Here is one of the better ones again: "Although many of us don't enjoy the start of the work week, Brenda Ann Spencer had a really bad case of the Monday blues. In 1979, Spencer was convicted of the Cleveland Elementary School shooting. That morning, Spencer shot the principal, a custodian, a police officer, and eight children as they were entering the school. The shootings were committed from Spencer's home, just across the street from the targeted school.

At just 16 years old, Spencer was charged as an adult and pleaded guilty to two counts of murder and assault with a deadly weapon. Ultimately, she was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison, where she remains to this day. When a reporter asked Spencer why she did it, she simply answered: "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day."

No SSRI's. Not under mental health care. Not a political jihadist. No reason to believe or suspect she would do it whatsoever.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Denton said:


> Years ago I drove doubles for a LTL company. One of its terminals was in Jacksonville. It was the only terminal I was told by the company to use caution when arriving at it at night. Many a time I dropped and then hooked doubles that had bullet holes from stray rounds which had been fired by gang-bangers.


Jacksonville is broken into five Zones, or patrol areas, by the Jacksonville Sheriffs Office.
For the last 17 years of my career before hanging it up I managed a building materials distribution warehouse in Zone 5, the one with the highest crime rates.
This is the part of town where "they" shoot cops. The vice squad used to do prostitution busts in my parking lot. Dead bodies were dumped on our block.

I was always armed with AT LEAST a 357 magnum. Often my AK was out in the truck.

And someone here wants to lecture me on gang violence, drug dealing and its associated crimes - burglary, theft, prostitution.


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> A mind is like a parachute, they both work better when they are open.
> Unfortunately you fell to your death a long time ago.
> 
> Whenever I see one of your posts, the adjective "buffoon" immediately comes to my mind.


Whenever I see a post you made, the words poseur, fake, phony, fraud and wannabe come to mind. *IF *you served in any military, it was as a cook or in supply. You don't exhibit the traits found in a person who has worked in a team atmosphere. You damn sure aren't any kind of soldier I've ever met. BTW I was mentored by Lt. Col. Gordon (Jack) Mohr (look him up) who was a co-founder of the Militia of Georgia and I was trained by Lt. Col. James "Bo" Gritz - the most decorated soldier during the Vietnam era, a Green Beret and former CIA operative. So, excuse the Hell out of me, but I do know what a real soldier is about. You do a lot of Internet bullying and are joined by people equally deluded as you. At best, your ass was in the rear with the gear.

My mind is *WIDE* open. I did the numbers in my younger years ghosting for Lt. Col. Mohr when he was a speaker on the John Birch Society's Speaker's Bureau. I can tell you a lot of them today. *When I began*, blacks made up 13 percent of the population in the U.S. yet they committed 66.7 percent of the violent crimes according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports. For every 1 shooting done in the United States, blacks do more than 4. They commit more beatings, robberies, burglaries, rapes, assaults and drug sales than whites both in terms of raw numbers and even if you want to play the per capita statistics. No matter how you slice and dice it, they definitely have an issue - just not the one I'm addressing yet (and for a damn good reason.)

Do you know that where I live, we have 159 counties and the county police have so many county police precincts I can't tell you exactly how many there are, but *OVER HALF* of all the violent crime here happens in only 5 of those precincts - and *ALL* of those are predominantly black districts (more than 80 percent.) Atlanta is so bad that one article says:

"_In fact, the metro had three times the national violent crime rate in 2016, with 1,084 violent crimes reported per 100,000 Atlanta residents.

Atlanta was also named one of America's top 25 murder capitals in 24/7 Wall St.'s 2016 report, based on FBI data_."

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/ouch...ica-worst-report-says/nXJfdzZs2na2gZ4abOI7zJ/

https://gbi.georgia.gov/sites/gbi.g...page/2017 Crime Statistics Summary Report.pdf

That being said, *there is no official definition of or records being kept of defining what constitutes a mass shooting*. So, let's save time and quit trying to blow smoke up each other's rectum. Though I don't have a precise definition of what a mass shooting is, when I hear of 5, 10 20, or 50 to 60 victims, I know right off the bat it is either a Muslim or a white male between 18 and 40. If I hear of a drive by in Atlanta and 4 or 5 people get bumped off, the perp is black and the reason is usually drug related and / or related to a gang initiation. It takes about 5 of Atlanta's mass shootings to equal 1 mass shooting like the one that happened in Florida.

BTW, I predicted that latest mass shooting and the events that would happen around it. Trump will get his wall; Pelosi will get her gun control and it was no coincidence that the little worm Rubio came out in favor of red flag laws just before that shooting. I told people on these boards months before it all happened - almost in the order it would happen. It's history repeating itself. Some people just never catch on.

We have a war to fight. You guys want to waste your money on a freaking wall. I got it. I disagree with it, but I got it. I'd simply rather use the money to get the white people (the ones who have made America the drug capital of the world) off drugs, rehabilitated and back into the workforce. If we had a nation that focused its efforts to boost the moral tone of the nation, there would be *no need for drug cartels*. Former drug users would want those people out of here worse than our older generation that has been dumbed down enough to believe that if you put a wall around a pile of shit, the bugs go away. It ain't gonna happen. And any of you could have stated your case without the usual banter, bullying and pretending that you got offended. You have YOUR beliefs; I have mine. AND I can show you where I let you state your case on this board without trolling your thread and playing popularity games. I disagreed with ALL of it, but didn't say a damn thing. So get off your high horse and quit pretending that I haven't shown you respect because I started a thread here.


----------



## The Resister

Deebo said:


> Come on @Resister,
> First you call RPD a buckette, when clearly a "bucko" is term that everyone uses for fella,
> Then you Kauboy SON, and tell him Screw you..
> The very things you get upset about when we say things to you.


You don't know the history and the disrespect I've been subjected to. I'm not here to win a popularity contest; I don't go to their threads and start crap. I don't start out with negative commentary and name calling. I've simply reached a point that I won't be talked to like that and have told them, if it's personal, take it to PM.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> That's why I listed them for you... so you could easily find them. Here is one of the better ones again: "Although many of us don't enjoy the start of the work week, Brenda Ann Spencer had a really bad case of the Monday blues. In 1979, Spencer was convicted of the Cleveland Elementary School shooting. That morning, Spencer shot the principal, a custodian, a police officer, and eight children as they were entering the school. The shootings were committed from Spencer's home, just across the street from the targeted school.
> 
> At just 16 years old, Spencer was charged as an adult and pleaded guilty to two counts of murder and assault with a deadly weapon. Ultimately, she was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison, where she remains to this day. When a reporter asked Spencer why she did it, she simply answered: "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day."
> 
> No SSRI's. Not under mental health care. Not a political jihadist. No reason to believe or suspect she would do it whatsoever.


Gee, you went back to 1979???

"_The ground was ripe for a better pill, and it wasn't long before scientists produced a new, highly targeted class of antidepressants, led by Prozac, which hit the U.S. market in *1987*, followed by Zoloft in *1991* and Paxil in *1992*. Instead of blanketing a broad range of brain chemicals, the drugs - known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) - zeroed in on one: serotonin, a critical compound that ferries signals between nerve cells. SSRIs provided relief for the same percentage of patients as their predecessors did but were easier to prescribe without risking overdose and had fewer side effects_."

Antidepressants: Study on Popular Drugs, Mild Depression - TIME

White, Male 18 - 40 years of age, glorifies violence, repeated offenses related to violence and / or anti-social behavior, has traits that most people can articulate leading a normal person to believe the person may pose a threat, AND using SSRIs:

Adam Lanza
Nick Cruz
Eric Harris
Dylan Klebold
James Holmes

That is 5 guys who fit *all* the most common traits to your single example. Name me another and I'll give you 5 more that fit the profile. And if we put in the Muslims that were on SSRIs so that we can't tell whether it was the political jihadist or drugs, we can make it 7 to your 1 example.

https://commonground.ca/mass-murderers-ssris/

Steven Paddock was drugged as well:

https://paleofam.com/2018/11/list-of-mass-shooters-on-antidepressants/


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> Gee, you went back to 1979???
> 
> "_The ground was ripe for a better pill, and it wasn't long before scientists produced a new, highly targeted class of antidepressants, led by Prozac, which hit the U.S. market in *1987*, followed by Zoloft in *1991* and Paxil in *1992*. Instead of blanketing a broad range of brain chemicals, the drugs - known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) - zeroed in on one: serotonin, a critical compound that ferries signals between nerve cells. SSRIs provided relief for the same percentage of patients as their predecessors did but were easier to prescribe without risking overdose and had fewer side effects_."
> 
> Antidepressants: Study on Popular Drugs, Mild Depression - TIME
> 
> White, Male 18 - 40 years of age, glorifies violence, repeated offenses related to violence and / or anti-social behavior, has traits that most people can articulate leading a normal person to believe the person may pose a threat, AND using SSRIs:
> 
> Adam Lanza
> Nick Cruz
> Eric Harris
> Dylan Klebold
> James Holmes
> 
> That is 5 guys who fit *all* the most common traits to your single example. Name me another and I'll give you 5 more that fit the profile. And if we put in the Muslims that were on SSRIs so that we can't tell whether it was the political jihadist or drugs, we can make it 7 to your 1 example.
> 
> https://commonground.ca/mass-murderers-ssris/
> 
> Steven Paddock was drugged as well:
> 
> https://paleofam.com/2018/11/list-of-mass-shooters-on-antidepressants/


One example? Remedial math for you pal. 
As per your custom, you missed the point... probably because it doesn't fit you narrative. There is NO EVIDENCE that those drugs caused these kids to commit these acts. Correlation does NOT equal causality. I listed those other shootings to demonstrate that nutjobs will be nutjobs without needing a drug to inspire. And YES, I think the 1979 anecdote IS especially telling, despite your sneer, as it completely undermines the theory you assert. AGAIN: she was NOT on drugs. NOT in psychiatric care. No warning of any kind. Boom. 
Our modern shooters AGAIN (just so you don't miss it this time) could have just as well been predisposed to commit these acts anyway... all on their own. I'll say it twice: Our modern shooters AGAIN could have just as well been predisposed to commit these acts anyway... all on their own. Maybe they all had too much ibuprofen as well, or vanilla milkshakes in common. Correlation does not equal causality. You can keep insisting until sundown... not how things work. It's a pet hypothesis of yours, one which also _may yet_ be proven to have merit. The missing part, as of yet, is that proof.


----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


> One example? Remedial math for you pal.
> As per your custom, you missed the point... probably because it doesn't fit you narrative. There is NO EVIDENCE that those drugs caused these kids to commit these acts. Correlation does NOT equal causality. I listed those other shootings to demonstrate that nutjobs will be nutjobs without needing a drug to inspire. And YES, I think the 1979 anecdote IS especially telling, despite your sneer, as it completely undermines the theory you assert. AGAIN: she was NOT on drugs. NOT in psychiatric care. No warning of any kind. Boom.
> Our modern shooters AGAIN (just so you don't miss it this time) could have just as well been predisposed to commit these acts anyway... all on their own. I'll say it twice: Our modern shooters AGAIN could have just as well been predisposed to commit these acts anyway... all on their own. Maybe they all had too much ibuprofen as well, or vanilla milkshakes in common. Correlation does not equal causality. You can keep insisting until sundown... not how things work. It's a pet hypothesis of yours, one which also _may yet_ be proven to have merit. The missing part, as of yet, is that proof.


You got me to searching.

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/UCM173233.pdf

I also learned about "black box warnings." Never heard of it, before.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/psychiatry/depression/210


----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> You got me to searching.
> 
> https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/UCM173233.pdf
> 
> I also learned about "black box warnings." Never heard of it, before.
> 
> https://www.medpagetoday.com/psychiatry/depression/210


The #1 warning for one of the ones I was on was heart attack (thanks for that). 
Anyway, as in all the old sniper/clock tower/freeway overpass killings in the past, there are nuts who want to shoot a LOT of people (or drive a vehicle into a crowd, or set a bomb, or poison patients, or bury 20+ hookers under their porch, yadida yadida YADIDA). Nuts who preceded SSRI's. Nuts who are simply murdering, narcissistic, pathological people waiting for their time and place to "happen". The best way to know for sure (unfortunately unavailable to us) would to run and compare an alternate reality: a reality in which none of these kids had any SSRI's. If they went ahead and killed anyway... well, that would seem to explain why they were in counseling or psychiatric care in the first place. If they didn't, then there would be a strong argument for them causing murderous rampages. But people have, do and will exist who simply do this because it's there to be done. We don't really LIKE that fact, but it's true nonetheless.


----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


> The #1 warning for one of the ones I was on was heart attack (thanks for that).
> Anyway, as in all the old sniper/clock tower/freeway overpass killings in the past, there are nuts who want to shoot a LOT of people (or drive a vehicle into a crowd, or set a bomb, or poison patients, or bury 20+ hookers under their porch, yadida yadida YADIDA). Nuts who preceded SSRI's. Nuts who are simply murdering, narcissistic, pathological people waiting for their time and place to "happen". The best way to know for sure (unfortunately unavailable to us) would to run and compare an alternate reality: a reality in which none of these kids had any SSRI's. If they went ahead and killed anyway... well, that would seem to explain why they were in counseling or psychiatric care in the first place. If they didn't, then there would be a strong argument for them causing murderous rampages. But people have, do and will exist who simply do this because it's there to be done. We don't really LIKE that fact, but it's true nonetheless.


Oh, I agree; the world has always had nut-jobs. That being as it is, I still take note that the warnings suggest the meds aren't for childen and adolescents and that the notable cases of adolescents going on killing sprees involved adolescents on SSRIs.

I certainly can't say that those teens would not have did what they did had they not been on the meds and I am no expert on pharmaceuticals but those who I figure must be experts wrote what they wrote in those two links I shared.

Again, I don't know. I'm just sharing what I found and offering my layman's thoughts. If ya want my expert opinion, only ask me questions about the avionics, electrical and instrument systems of the UH-60. Beyond that, I'm a rube. :tango_face_grin:


----------



## The Resister

I was lucky to have made it this far with this thread. Although it was not my initial intention, I want to share something before the trolls return to hijack and destroy this thread.

We are all a product of our experiences. For a number of years my experiences have taken me into the social lives of a lot of different kinds of people. Each group has its own commonalities. In general, this is what I see with my own people (what USED TO BE the white middle class)

A young child is deemed "_hyperactive_" by either a parent or a school official. The first reaction is to run to the doctor and get a prescription for *Ritalin* or* Adderall*. They blame it on ADD / ADHD. It is a phony and non-existent condition for the most part.

As the child ages, they will graduate to* opioids* (whether legal or illegal) and on to even more dangerous illegal drugs. The doctors, mental health officials and Big Pharma will be happy to oblige. It's profitable. Many of these children will ultimately be prescribed *SSRIs* (anti-depressants.) The problem is not the drugs themselves; rather the problem is that drugs are used as a panacea when the root cause of the problem may not justify the drugs. At some point, when we're losing more kids to oipoid overdoses than firearms, common sense screams that we should put some thought into this.

Children get hooked on these drugs early on and ultimately become addicts. *MILLIONS* will not finish school. They will stay with their parents where they break that middle income family with their addiction - trips to jail, the stolen money and personal possessions from family to keep up their drug habit, off and on rehab, wrecked cars, etc. These people hit their mid 20s whereupon they are dropped from their parents insurance. But, they are *STILL* drug addicts. Suppose that you are in your 20s, for example. You have no education, no coping skills, no problem solving skills, no driver's license, no work history and no job skills plus a criminal history. Who is going to hire you?

In some cases, children are fed drugs, but a trip to their house finds that the parents are separated / divorced and the child was put on drugs for anxiety or depression. What the child really needed was a father in his life OR maybe a big brother / coach / mentor. The last thing the child needed is drugs. In some cases, children exhibit anti-social behavior, are drawn to violence, blood, guts and gore the way a moth is drawn to a light. To make a long story short, in most instances, when it comes to these children, drugs are an inappropriate treatment. AND, when you have a dysfunctional family or no family (single child who grew up largely as a latch key kid), you are throwing gasoline on a fire to try and solve it with drugs. Zephen Xaver had a history of "_desires to kill or harm people_." As a 16 year old he told a school counselor about having dreams of wanting to kill people on two occasions and was sent to a behavioral health center. They let him go. He even took anti-depressants (SSRIs) At 17 female student was getting messages from Xaver saying he was "_possibly thinking of suicide by cop_" and "_taking hostages,_" the police report said. Officers contacted his mother, who declined police assistance and said she would speak with him. He was the product of a broken home that ended in the parents divorce. He joined the Army and washed out in a couple of months.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-antidepressants-ineffective-in-teens-study/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jackso...rnament-history-of-mental-illness-2018-08-27/

*IF *someone had looked into this at the beginning and made sure this young man's mental health was attended to; if he had regular *non-drug therapies* administered; maybe if had a life coach or big brother type the carnage would not have happened. And here's my logic:

1) For every one life we save, there is the possibility of one more mass shooting being averted. That reduces the pretexts for gun control

2) For every one of these guys we save, we make a productive citizen and that means one less undocumented foreigner for the xenophobes to fret over

3) At the current time the U.S. has more people in prison than any nation on the planet. For every 1 drug addict in a mental health facility, we have more than 10 drug addicts in prison. 22 percent of the world's prisoners are in the United States. Is *THAT* going to remain a part of our culture?

4) Due to partisan politics, the right wants to lie and blame drug problems on scapegoats in order to keep the filthy rich in power:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...gh-profile-legal-cases-suggest-that-hes-wrong

5) While the lying, back stabbing filthy rich are playing the right, whites are the victims of this massive genocide. In one single year, *37,113 *whites died due to opioid overdoses compared to 5,513 blacks and 3932 Hispanics. Without whipping out a calculator, whites are dying at a ratio of about 4 to 1 on these overdoses... and the drug addicts were introduced to the drugs by our own doctors and Big Pharma

6) Despite warnings from the scientific community, *prescriptions* for opioids tripled between 1999 and 2015

http://www.neurologytimes.com/high-co-prescription-opioid-ssri-snris-despite-risks

I realize nobody likes my long winded rants, but we are allowing Big Pharma to destroy the posterity of the founding fathers and put the third world in charge of America. Nobody gives a rat's ass because it's all being done "_legally._" My detractors are usually nutjobs that think a kid of 5 or 6 years of age made the decision as to whether or not to become a drug addict; they don't want to consider what the power brokers have to gain by committing genocide against the white people; most of them oppose my efforts to save those people and put them into productive positions. The fewer users, the less need for the drugs. The more people we save, the greater our future chances of reviving our culture once the system breaks down.

THANK YOU PREPPERFORUMS FOR LETTING ME SAY IT.


----------



## StratMaster

@The Resister
I want to share something before the trolls return to hijack and destroy this thread.

Definition of hijacking trolls seeking to "destroy this thread": anyone who disagrees with your unwarranted, unsubstantiated conclusions.

A young child is deemed "hyperactive" by either a parent or a school official. The first reaction is to run to the doctor and get a prescription for Ritalin or Adderall. They blame it on ADD / ADHD. It is a phony and non-existent condition for the most part.

As the child ages, they will graduate to opioids (whether legal or illegal) and on to even more dangerous illegal drugs. The doctors, mental health officials and Big Pharma will be happy to oblige. 

Say what!? There is no correlation between kids on Ritalin "graduating" to opioids, and certainly no doctors "obliging" or prescribing legal opioids to kids "as they age" just because they were on Ritalin. Try this: go in to see your doctor, and complain of pain... back pain, neck, headaches, angst from dealing with PM members, whatever... try your very very best to convince him you need pain medication. Beg. Wheedle. Plead. Cry. See if he's "happy to oblige" or if he tosses you out with a handful of ibuprofen.

1) For every one life we save, there is the possibility of one more mass shooting being averted. That reduces the pretexts for gun control

I'm all for saving lives. But logic also says that IF one gives the government nanny/state power to restrict drug usage in a society of free men, then you cannot complain when they utilize the very same reasoning to restrict your gun ownership. Protecting you from yourself, and protecting other people from POTENTIAL harm done BY you.

we have more than 10 drug addicts in prison. 22 percent of the world's prisoners are in the United States. 

See above

whites are the victims of this massive genocide. In one single year, 37,113 whites died due to opioid overdoses compared to 5,513 blacks and 3932 Hispanics. Without whipping out a calculator, whites are dying at a ratio of about 4 to 1 on these overdoses... 

Oh.... maybe we had BETTER whip out that calculator after all: whites still account for 61% of America, while blacks are around 12%. This brings the figure suggested (4 to 1 ratio) down to a more reasonable 1.4 to 1 ratio when adjusted for population density.

My detractors are usually nutjobs that think a kid of 5 or 6 years of age made the decision as to whether or not to become a drug addict;

As one of those "nutjobs" who simply thinks you make unsubstantiated assertions and present them as fact. Has nothing at all to do with 5 or 6 year olds. Just you.

committing genocide against the white people; 

Oh boy... I'm finally the target of a conspiracy theory!


----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> Oh, I agree; the world has always had nut-jobs. That being as it is, I still take note that the warnings suggest the meds aren't for childen and adolescents and that the notable cases of adolescents going on killing sprees involved adolescents on SSRIs.
> 
> I certainly can't say that those teens would not have did what they did had they not been on the meds and I am no expert on pharmaceuticals but those who I figure must be experts wrote what they wrote in those two links I shared.
> 
> Again, I don't know. I'm just sharing what I found and offering my layman's thoughts. If ya want my expert opinion, only ask me questions about the avionics, electrical and instrument systems of the UH-60. Beyond that, I'm a rube. :tango_face_grin:


Another question... how many people do you have to kill BEFORE you are justifiably labeled a nut? Meaning: how many teens/adolescents kill ONE person, or TWO? Maybe their parents? Girlfriend? Step dad? These don't much make the news anymore. Why does it have to be a "spree" to be considered overtly antisocial behavior which we should take notice of? Because the larger shootings are obviously more sensational news-wise sure... as well as serving a gun grabber agenda. They will be coast-to-coast and A.P.I. every time they occur. They definitely have all of our attention. But unless there's some codex chemically/digitally integral to the SSRI drugs which give very specific and irresistible orders to KILL AS MANY AS POSSIBLE, it seems that idea has to come from elsewhere at least in origin.


----------



## The Tourist

One of the myths about violence is that if found, _"It must be the meds he was taking."_ This is sloppy rhetoric, like, _"It's the guns."_

What about all the people saved from years of fear and agoraphobia? I could easily point to some ******** fighting it out in the parking lot of a local dive and assert, _"It must be Country/Western music."_

I've had my share of anxiety. But never, ever, ever (unless I'm praying for my wife) do I care about another person of any rank, nor to senselessly brand anyone an enemy. It's all me, me, me.

If it is ever shown that a deranged sniper did commit a violent act, chances are _he was off his meds_ or never treated.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> @The Resister
> I want to share something before the trolls return to hijack and destroy this thread.
> 
> Definition of hijacking trolls seeking to "destroy this thread": anyone who disagrees with your unwarranted, unsubstantiated conclusions.
> 
> A young child is deemed "hyperactive" by either a parent or a school official. The first reaction is to run to the doctor and get a prescription for Ritalin or Adderall. They blame it on ADD / ADHD. It is a phony and non-existent condition for the most part.
> 
> As the child ages, they will graduate to opioids (whether legal or illegal) and on to even more dangerous illegal drugs. The doctors, mental health officials and Big Pharma will be happy to oblige.
> 
> Say what!? There is no correlation between kids on Ritalin "graduating" to opioids, and certainly no doctors "obliging" or prescribing legal opioids to kids "as they age" just because they were on Ritalin. Try this: go in to see your doctor, and complain of pain... back pain, neck, headaches, angst from dealing with PM members, whatever... try your very very best to convince him you need pain medication. Beg. Wheedle. Plead. Cry. See if he's "happy to oblige" or if he tosses you out with a handful of ibuprofen.
> 
> 1) For every one life we save, there is the possibility of one more mass shooting being averted. That reduces the pretexts for gun control
> 
> I'm all for saving lives. But logic also says that IF one gives the government nanny/state power to restrict drug usage in a society of free men, then you cannot complain when they utilize the very same reasoning to restrict your gun ownership. Protecting you from yourself, and protecting other people from POTENTIAL harm done BY you.
> 
> we have more than 10 drug addicts in prison. 22 percent of the world's prisoners are in the United States.
> 
> See above
> 
> whites are the victims of this massive genocide. In one single year, 37,113 whites died due to opioid overdoses compared to 5,513 blacks and 3932 Hispanics. Without whipping out a calculator, whites are dying at a ratio of about 4 to 1 on these overdoses...
> 
> Oh.... maybe we had BETTER whip out that calculator after all: whites still account for 61% of America, while blacks are around 12%. This brings the figure suggested (4 to 1 ratio) down to a more reasonable 1.4 to 1 ratio when adjusted for population density.
> 
> My detractors are usually nutjobs that think a kid of 5 or 6 years of age made the decision as to whether or not to become a drug addict;
> 
> As one of those "nutjobs" who simply thinks you make unsubstantiated assertions and present them as fact. Has nothing at all to do with 5 or 6 year olds. Just you.
> 
> committing genocide against the white people;
> 
> Oh boy... I'm finally the target of a conspiracy theory!


OMG Are you for real?

1) As a matter of *FACT*, Ritalin and opioids ARE gateway drugs:

https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/ritalin/leads-to-other-drugs.html

2) Doctors ARE over-prescribing drugs when its not necessary

https://www.sharecare.com/video/dr-oz/addiction/the-investigation-into-drug-dealing-doctors

..._"is it any wonder that with the rise in opioid prescriptions, accidental opioid overdoses by children have risen too? From 1997 to 2012, among kids 10 to 14, the incidence of accidental poisoning increased 82 percent and the rate of children hospitalized for opioid poisoning increased 165 percent"_.

https://www.sharecare.com/health/teen-health/article/protecting-children-opiod-epidemic

https://www.sharecare.com/health/su...covery/article/ohio-sues-opioid-manufacturers

3) You are making a false, misleading and dishonest assumption about what I said. You realize it is dishonest when you don't phrase your skepticism in the form of a question, but rather an allegation to support your unsustainable theory. While Ritalin is NOT a gateway drug to other drugs, it is the parents and government and I have *ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS* started my sentences off with that who are responsible for putting children on these drugs. Graduating is not the same term as gate to

4) If doctors are not responsible for the drugs they dispense, why have doctors at all? Why all the licensing and approvals from government agencies? You are advocating against that and quite simply, I want someone to *show me the Right* to destroy a child's life with dangerous drugs in the Constitution

5) Yep, you definitely need to whip out a calculator.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5105018/

Got to hand it to you, you'd argue with me even if I agreed with you. I could state what you believe in 100 percent on an issue you haven't spoken about publicly and you'd argue against it. It might be fun, but it's a waste of time while your brethren are dying.

Finally, I look at *everything* I do to make sure it does not lead down a road toward restricting the Bill of Rights. That's why I'm against all forms of gun control, be it waiting periods, background checks, bans on weapons, etc. If you're an adult, then you should have those Rights protected above all else.


----------



## The Resister

The Tourist said:


> One of the myths about violence is that if found, _"It must be the meds he was taking."_ This is sloppy rhetoric, like, _"It's the guns."_
> 
> What about all the people saved from years of fear and agoraphobia? I could easily point to some ******** fighting it out in the parking lot of a local dive and assert, _"It must be Country/Western music."_
> 
> I've had my share of anxiety. But never, ever, ever (unless I'm praying for my wife) do I care about another person of any rank, nor to senselessly brand anyone an enemy. It's all me, me, me.
> 
> If it is ever shown that a deranged sniper did commit a violent act, chances are _he was off his meds_ or never treated.


It is the people like you that use those phrases of _"he must be off his meds_" if anyone dare say anything contrary to your clique group.

So, when there is say ten or more people killed in a mass shooting and all of them are either on SSRIs (and fit within a specific demographic and family culture) or political jihadists - what do YOU think the reason non-whites aren't doing the same thing?

And what are the percentages of whites versus other races being victims of mass shootings involving 10 or more victims?


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> One example? Remedial math for you pal.
> As per your custom, you missed the point... probably because it doesn't fit you narrative. There is NO EVIDENCE that those drugs caused these kids to commit these acts. Correlation does NOT equal causality. I listed those other shootings to demonstrate that nutjobs will be nutjobs without needing a drug to inspire. And YES, I think the 1979 anecdote IS especially telling, despite your sneer, as it completely undermines the theory you assert. AGAIN: she was NOT on drugs. NOT in psychiatric care. No warning of any kind. Boom.
> Our modern shooters AGAIN (just so you don't miss it this time) could have just as well been predisposed to commit these acts anyway... all on their own. I'll say it twice: Our modern shooters AGAIN could have just as well been predisposed to commit these acts anyway... all on their own. Maybe they all had too much ibuprofen as well, or vanilla milkshakes in common. Correlation does not equal causality. You can keep insisting until sundown... not how things work. It's a pet hypothesis of yours, one which also _may yet_ be proven to have merit. The missing part, as of yet, is that proof.


If you could only keep up...

YOU are the only person that made a *single* correlation between the SSRIs and violence. What dumbassery! Did it dawn on you to ask a question *BEFORE* you wrote that? In what language do we have to go through this to list the things that determine whether or not a person is a high risk for committing an act of violence? The SSRIs are a commonality to us being able to say this:

In the instances where white people are killing 5, 10, 20 and more victims, they were being prescribed SSRIs when it was the *inappropriate* treatment. These people cannot sit down in a doctor's office and articulate what is the root cause of their problem; therefore, society has a duty to rule out the other mitigating factors *BEFORE* prescribing drugs to children *WHEN THE KNOW SIDE EFFECTS OF SUCH DRUGS ARE HOMICIDAL AND SUICIDAL TENDENCIES.*


----------



## Slippy

Mass shootings occur more often and with greater numbers of casualties in African Countries, Middle Eastern Countries and Central/South America than the US but the US gets all the media press. I'll try to find some stats.


----------



## Denton

Slippy said:


> Mass shootings occur more often and with greater numbers of casualties in African Countries, Middle Eastern Countries and Central/South America than the US but the US gets all the media press. I'll try to find some stats.


Yes, but those shootings are for different reasons. They are motivated by politics, gangs and Islam.


----------



## Slippy

Denton said:


> Yes, but those shootings are for different reasons. They are motivated by politics, gangs and Islam.


I guess the reasons don't make a big shat pile of difference. Maybe we should agree to lump them all together and simply call it EVIL?


----------



## The Tourist

Denton said:


> Yes, but those shootings are for different reasons. They are motivated by politics, gangs and Islam.


As a CCW carrier, this scenario you outlined worries me the most. As you know, this is Madison. If a cop injures a felon, it's the cop who gets arrested--and sued.

We are also a libtard, pencil neck magnet. If the gangs or Muslims come into our mall, I might be one, lone white guy who has a gun. Sure call 911. During the first shooting there it took the SWAT team ten minutes to respond.

In the long run, it was just better for me to hope they passed the cafe' area and shot up Boston Store, but I hated typing that.


----------



## The Resister

Slippy said:


> Mass shootings occur more often and with greater numbers of casualties in African Countries, Middle Eastern Countries and Central/South America than the US but the US gets all the media press. I'll try to find some stats.


When you do, it might explain to the world that third world countries do not have the capacity to govern themselves and when you bring them to the United States, elect them to public office, and think it will all work out, you've just lost your country on a foolish presupposition.


----------



## StratMaster

Slippy said:


> Mass shootings occur more often and with greater numbers of casualties in African Countries, Middle Eastern Countries and Central/South America than the US but the US gets all the media press. I'll try to find some stats.


That's because they have *CHIGGERS!* It's the only _common denominator_, therefore *CHIGGERS *cause HOMOCIDAL KILLING SPREES!!!


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> OMG Are you for real?
> 
> 1) As a matter of *FACT*, Ritalin and opioids ARE gateway drugs:
> 
> https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/ritalin/leads-to-other-drugs.html
> 
> 2) Doctors ARE over-prescribing drugs when its not necessary
> 
> https://www.sharecare.com/video/dr-oz/addiction/the-investigation-into-drug-dealing-doctors
> 
> ..._"is it any wonder that with the rise in opioid prescriptions, accidental opioid overdoses by children have risen too? From 1997 to 2012, among kids 10 to 14, the incidence of accidental poisoning increased 82 percent and the rate of children hospitalized for opioid poisoning increased 165 percent"_.
> 
> https://www.sharecare.com/health/teen-health/article/protecting-children-opiod-epidemic
> 
> https://www.sharecare.com/health/su...covery/article/ohio-sues-opioid-manufacturers
> 
> 3) You are making a false, misleading and dishonest assumption about what I said. You realize it is dishonest when you don't phrase your skepticism in the form of a question, but rather an allegation to support your unsustainable theory. While Ritalin is NOT a gateway drug to other drugs, it is the parents and government and I have *ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS* started my sentences off with that who are responsible for putting children on these drugs. Graduating is not the same term as gate to
> 
> 4) If doctors are not responsible for the drugs they dispense, why have doctors at all? Why all the licensing and approvals from government agencies? You are advocating against that and quite simply, I want someone to *show me the Right* to destroy a child's life with dangerous drugs in the Constitution
> 
> 5) Yep, you definitely need to whip out a calculator.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5105018/
> 
> Got to hand it to you, you'd argue with me even if I agreed with you. I could state what you believe in 100 percent on an issue you haven't spoken about publicly and you'd argue against it. It might be fun, but it's a waste of time while your brethren are dying.
> 
> Finally, I look at *everything* I do to make sure it does not lead down a road toward restricting the Bill of Rights. That's why I'm against all forms of gun control, be it waiting periods, background checks, bans on weapons, etc. If you're an adult, then you should have those Rights protected above all else.


"As a matter of FACT, Ritalin and opioids ARE gateway drugs:"....... "While Ritalin is NOT a gateway drug to other drugs". Aren't you contradicting yourself there? Opioids are more of an "end of the line drug" rather than a gateway drug by the way. Super powerful, super addicting.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> "As a matter of FACT, Ritalin and opioids ARE gateway drugs:"....... "While Ritalin is NOT a gateway drug to other drugs". Aren't you contradicting yourself there? Opioids are more of an "end of the line drug" rather than a gateway drug by the way. Super powerful, super addicting.


Let us see if we can straighten this out.

In the early stages of a child's life, the government puts children on Ritalin or Adderall for *NONEXISTENT *conditions. It's almost a standard operating procedure. No time is spent on the child's home life.  We don't know if the parents smoke, drink, do drugs, have fights in the home, abuse the child physically / emotionally (for the most part.) When a child winds up in foster care, drugs are the first thing they are taught. Are you with me so far?

Not all Ritalin and Adderall users will become drug addicts. The director of the psychology department at the University of California, Berkeley did a single study that found Adderall users were more likely to end up smoking tobacco and using other stimulants. Science has not gone far enough yet to say whether or not there is a direct link between Adderall or Ritalin and using some hardcore drugs.

It' just not that simple.

In my line of work, I've found that *PARENTS AND THE GOVERNMENT* begin to rely on rely on pills as substitutes for finding the root cause of a child's problems. *IT IS MY OPINION, BASED UPON YEARS OF OBSERVATION AND DISCUSSING THE SUBJECT WITH SOCIAL WORKERS, FOSTER PARENTS, AND POLICE*, that over a course of years, many children who are programmed to think a pill will help them resolve their every issue in life will then go on use opioids (whether legal or illegal.) It is not necessarily that one drug is the gateway to another drug - *it is the mindset of parents and the government to prescribe pills* instead of examining things going on with children.

In any event, our current culture is a drug culture. Isn't this side debate about drugs on a shooting thread simply a defense of drug use in America? Everybody thinks a drug will cure their problems, but rarely does that happen. Doctors over-prescribe opioids; children die. Many of the same parents who wanted their kids on Ritalin or Adderall are the same parents who want their children on opioids (many, not all.) This subject is way too complex for the two of us to try and debate when we don't know all the factors. Either way, due to the government, doctors and Big Pharma, there is an abundance of opioids on the market. Then there are doctors prescribing SSRIs to children based upon symptoms they complain of.

Mixing drugs is having a devastating effect on children and scientists / doctors don't fully understand what is going on. They do know that the SSRIs are an ineffective treatment for what they are supposedly treating and nobody is allowing us to pursue non-drug therapies:

https://www.statnews.com/2016/06/08/antidepressants-teens-kids/

I have a personal list that I compiled. With almost amazingly accuracy, you tell me the circumstances behind a shooting and I can profile the shooter for you. I nailed this last guy down to everything but his name. It's not just the drugs, but if you mix the right drugs, right circumstances, and the teen has certain traits, there is a near 100 percent chance they will commit a very violent act in their lifetime. It's maybe not as scientific as you'd like, but in my area cops, foster parents, and social workers who have witnessed this over a period of years see the same thing I do. I'm sorry I'm not a scientist that understands drugs - and they're admitting they don't fully understand it. But, we have the power of observation. If you really want to know what is going on - ask the guy who has his boots on the ground.


----------



## RedLion

The Resister said:


> Let us see if we can straighten this out.
> 
> In the early stages of a child's life, the government puts children on Ritalin or Adderall for *NONEXISTENT *conditions. It's almost a standard operating procedure. No time is spent on the child's home life. We don't know if the parents smoke, drink, do drugs, have fights in the home, abuse the child physically / emotionally (for the most part.) When a child winds up in foster care, drugs are the first thing they are taught. Are you with me so far?
> 
> Not all Ritalin and Adderall users will become drug addicts. The director of the psychology department at the University of California, Berkeley did a single study that found Adderall users were more likely to end up smoking tobacco and using other stimulants. Science has not gone far enough yet to say whether or not there is a direct link between Adderall or Ritalin and using some hardcore drugs.
> 
> It' just not that simple.
> 
> In my line of work, I've found that *PARENTS AND THE GOVERNMENT* begin to rely on rely on pills as substitutes for finding the root cause of a child's problems. *IT IS MY OPINION, BASED UPON YEARS OF OBSERVATION AND DISCUSSING THE SUBJECT WITH SOCIAL WORKERS, FOSTER PARENTS, AND POLICE*, that over a course of years, many children who are programmed to think a pill will help them resolve their every issue in life will then go on use opioids (whether legal or illegal.) It is not necessarily that one drug is the gateway to another drug - *it is the mindset of parents and the government to prescribe pills* instead of examining things going on with children.
> 
> In any event, our current culture is a drug culture. Isn't this side debate about drugs on a shooting thread simply a defense of drug use in America? Everybody thinks a drug will cure their problems, but rarely does that happen. Doctors over-prescribe opioids; children die. Many of the same parents who wanted their kids on Ritalin or Adderall are the same parents who want their children on opioids (many, not all.) This subject is way too complex for the two of us to try and debate when we don't know all the factors. Either way, due to the government, doctors and Big Pharma, there is an abundance of opioids on the market. Then there are doctors prescribing SSRIs to children based upon symptoms they complain of.
> 
> Mixing drugs is having a devastating effect on children and scientists / doctors don't fully understand what is going on. They do know that the SSRIs are an ineffective treatment for what they are supposedly treating and nobody is allowing us to pursue non-drug therapies:
> 
> https://www.statnews.com/2016/06/08/antidepressants-teens-kids/
> 
> I have a personal list that I compiled. With almost amazingly accuracy, you tell me the circumstances behind a shooting and I can profile the shooter for you. I nailed this last guy down to everything but his name. It's not just the drugs, but if you mix the right drugs, right circumstances, and the teen has certain traits, there is a near 100 percent chance they will commit a very violent act in their lifetime. It's maybe not as scientific as you'd like, but in my area cops, foster parents, and social workers who have witnessed this over a period of years see the same thing I do. I'm sorry I'm not a scientist that understands drugs - and they're admitting they don't fully understand it. But, we have the power of observation. If you really want to know what is going on - ask the guy who has his boots on the ground.


You are certainly right that children are medicated instead of recognizing and actually addressing a chaotic and/or abusive family environment. Children have been over-medicated with Ritalin and other stimulants to treat ADHD when the real problem is trauma and a chaotic family. The same for childhood Bipolar as well.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> Let us see if we can straighten this out.
> 
> In the early stages of a child's life, the government puts children on Ritalin or Adderall for *NONEXISTENT *conditions. It's almost a standard operating procedure. No time is spent on the child's home life. We don't know if the parents smoke, drink, do drugs, have fights in the home, abuse the child physically / emotionally (for the most part.) When a child winds up in foster care, drugs are the first thing they are taught. Are you with me so far?
> 
> Not all Ritalin and Adderall users will become drug addicts. The director of the psychology department at the University of California, Berkeley did a single study that found Adderall users were more likely to end up smoking tobacco and using other stimulants. Science has not gone far enough yet to say whether or not there is a direct link between Adderall or Ritalin and using some hardcore drugs.
> 
> It' just not that simple.
> 
> In my line of work, I've found that *PARENTS AND THE GOVERNMENT* begin to rely on rely on pills as substitutes for finding the root cause of a child's problems. *IT IS MY OPINION, BASED UPON YEARS OF OBSERVATION AND DISCUSSING THE SUBJECT WITH SOCIAL WORKERS, FOSTER PARENTS, AND POLICE*, that over a course of years, many children who are programmed to think a pill will help them resolve their every issue in life will then go on use opioids (whether legal or illegal.) It is not necessarily that one drug is the gateway to another drug - *it is the mindset of parents and the government to prescribe pills* instead of examining things going on with children.
> 
> In any event, our current culture is a drug culture. Isn't this side debate about drugs on a shooting thread simply a defense of drug use in America? Everybody thinks a drug will cure their problems, but rarely does that happen. Doctors over-prescribe opioids; children die. Many of the same parents who wanted their kids on Ritalin or Adderall are the same parents who want their children on opioids (many, not all.) This subject is way too complex for the two of us to try and debate when we don't know all the factors. Either way, due to the government, doctors and Big Pharma, there is an abundance of opioids on the market. Then there are doctors prescribing SSRIs to children based upon symptoms they complain of.
> 
> Mixing drugs is having a devastating effect on children and scientists / doctors don't fully understand what is going on. They do know that the SSRIs are an ineffective treatment for what they are supposedly treating and nobody is allowing us to pursue non-drug therapies:
> 
> https://www.statnews.com/2016/06/08/antidepressants-teens-kids/
> 
> I have a personal list that I compiled. With almost amazingly accuracy, you tell me the circumstances behind a shooting and I can profile the shooter for you. I nailed this last guy down to everything but his name. It's not just the drugs, but if you mix the right drugs, right circumstances, and the teen has certain traits, there is a near 100 percent chance they will commit a very violent act in their lifetime. It's maybe not as scientific as you'd like, but in my area cops, foster parents, and social workers who have witnessed this over a period of years see the same thing I do. I'm sorry I'm not a scientist that understands drugs - and they're admitting they don't fully understand it. But, we have the power of observation. If you really want to know what is going on - ask the guy who has his boots on the ground.


That DOES straighten it out... at least for me. I can sign off as agreeing with most of this.
It' just not that simple. Agreed.
When a child winds up in foster care, drugs are the first thing they are taught. Taught? I know lots of guys from foster care. None of them were "taught" about drug usage. Neither did their foster parents force them onto drugs.
In my line of work, I've found that PARENTS AND THE GOVERNMENT begin to rely on rely on pills as substitutes for finding the root cause of a child's problems. And yes, I already agreed this was the case: that it is both expedient and profitable, but not the way I would go or recommend.
Many of the same parents who wanted their kids on Ritalin or Adderall are the same parents who want their children on opioids This is where you are severely confused...I still have never heard of anyone... not a doctor or a parent... ever ever EVER putting their kids on opioids. These are herculean strength narcotic pain relievers given to patients with bleeding stumps and end stage cancer. They are NOT used to control a child's behavior. Semi-synthetic opioids include hydromorphone, hydrocodone, and oxycodone (the prescription drug OxyContin), as well as heroin, which is made from morphine. There are no doctors prescribing these meds unless a child is dying in the hospital. Chemically, one starts with codeine. Add a hydrogen molecule and you have advance to hydrocodone (Vicodin). Add an additional oxygen molecule and you are into oxycodone (or Oxycontin in a time release mode). Maybe you have opioids mixed up with another class of drugs, like benzodiazepines. Children are NOT prescribed morphine for any other reason than impending death or surgery.
ask the guy who has his boots on the ground. That would be me as well. I was a participant of HRC (harm reduction coalition) for many years. Intervention. Needle exchanges. One advantage I have (hard earned) is that I was a teenager in the 70's. NEVER like pot, so at least in my case not a gateway drug. But pretty much tried everything else back then. I'm not recommending that you go on a year- long bender to better understand drugs, but the fact remains it is an experience no mere counselor has. And again, it may turn out your ARE right... here just isn't enough evidence to show causality. These kids may have done it regardless. 
Cheers...


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> That DOES straighten it out... at least for me. I can sign off as agreeing with most of this.
> It' just not that simple. Agreed.
> When a child winds up in foster care, drugs are the first thing they are taught. Taught? I know lots of guys from foster care. None of them were "taught" about drug usage. Neither did their foster parents force them onto drugs.
> In my line of work, I've found that PARENTS AND THE GOVERNMENT begin to rely on rely on pills as substitutes for finding the root cause of a child's problems. And yes, I already agreed this was the case: that it is both expedient and profitable, but not the way I would go or recommend.
> Many of the same parents who wanted their kids on Ritalin or Adderall are the same parents who want their children on opioids This is where you are severely confused...I still have never heard of anyone... not a doctor or a parent... ever ever EVER putting their kids on opioids. These are herculean strength narcotic pain relievers given to patients with bleeding stumps and end stage cancer. They are NOT used to control a child's behavior. Semi-synthetic opioids include hydromorphone, hydrocodone, and oxycodone (the prescription drug OxyContin), as well as heroin, which is made from morphine. There are no doctors prescribing these meds unless a child is dying in the hospital. Chemically, one starts with codeine. Add a hydrogen molecule and you have advance to hydrocodone (Vicodin). Add an additional oxygen molecule and you are into oxycodone (or Oxycontin in a time release mode). Maybe you have opioids mixed up with another class of drugs, like benzodiazepines. Children are NOT prescribed morphine for any other reason than impending death or surgery.
> ask the guy who has his boots on the ground. That would be me as well. I was a participant of HRC (harm reduction coalition) for many years. Intervention. Needle exchanges. One advantage I have (hard earned) is that I was a teenager in the 70's. NEVER like pot, so at least in my case not a gateway drug. But pretty much tried everything else back then. I'm not recommending that you go on a year- long bender to better understand drugs, but the fact remains it is an experience no mere counselor has. And again, it may turn out your ARE right... here just isn't enough evidence to show causality. These kids may have done it regardless.
> Cheers...


I think you don't understand because you don't want to. You continue to put words into my sentences and change the meaning of what I just said t suit your narrative. Okay, sir, they are not "_taught_" about drugs. But, the way it works is simple: Put a child in foster care and some social worker gives you the child and a few bottles of drugs. Don't you think children instinctively wonder why they are being given drugs? Don't you think they begin to learn taking drugs as a daily ritual like brushing your teeth?

You never heard of teens being prescribed opioids? That's strange:

https://www.nextgenerationvillage.com/blog/doctor-prescribes-opioids-teen/

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/opioid-facts-teens/faqs-about-opioids How come you think there is so much advice for teens on this subject?

Is this subject challenging your falsely held belief that this issue is related to something else? How would you explain away this?

https://www.nhpr.org/post/ohio-sues-drug-companies-over-role-creating-opioid-epidemic#stream/0

How about this?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-attorney-generals-opioid-lawsuits/612721002/

Do you really think that opioids are only being prescribed to adults, given those figures? Check this out:

https://talbottcampus.com/prescription-drug-abuse-statistics/ Those statistics are based upon PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, not illegal drugs

Nearly a quarter of painkillers are prescribed to teens by a doctor. What happens when those American made zombies grow up, get taken off mommy's insurance and can no longer get them? Those drug addicts are made in America a product of ignorant and lazy parents; the government is next; doctors and Big Pharma stand next in line. Everybody wants to make the illegal drug pushers responsible, but many times the problem originates with the parents, government, doctors / mental health officials and Big Pharma.

Honestly, is there any possibility of using words that you will not misrepresent in order to get to the truth? You're not wanting a drug debate on a thread about a mass shooting are you? Would you, by any chance, be trying to justify drug use in America? I'm getting skeptical of your motives - ESPECIALLY when you add words to my posts and question facts already presented. Are you so much in favor of drugs that you don't care to save lives and maybe take away some of the liberals pretexts for assaulting our Rights? My motives are pretty transparent. Yours... not so much.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> I think you don't understand because you don't want to. You continue to put words into my sentences and change the meaning of what I just said t suit your narrative. Okay, sir, they are not "_taught_" about drugs. But, the way it works is simple: Put a child in foster care and some social worker gives you the child and a few bottles of drugs. Don't you think children instinctively wonder why they are being given drugs? Don't you think they begin to learn taking drugs as a daily ritual like brushing your teeth?
> 
> You never heard of teens being prescribed opioids? That's strange:
> 
> https://www.nextgenerationvillage.com/blog/doctor-prescribes-opioids-teen/
> 
> https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/opioid-facts-teens/faqs-about-opioids How come you think there is so much advice for teens on this subject?
> 
> Is this subject challenging your falsely held belief that this issue is related to something else? How would you explain away this?
> 
> https://www.nhpr.org/post/ohio-sues-drug-companies-over-role-creating-opioid-epidemic#stream/0
> 
> How about this?
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-attorney-generals-opioid-lawsuits/612721002/
> 
> Do you really think that opioids are only being prescribed to adults, given those figures? Check this out:
> 
> https://talbottcampus.com/prescription-drug-abuse-statistics/ Those statistics are based upon PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, not illegal drugs
> 
> Nearly a quarter of painkillers are prescribed to teens by a doctor. What happens when those American made zombies grow up, get taken off mommy's insurance and can no longer get them? Those drug addicts are made in America a product of ignorant and lazy parents; the government is next; doctors and Big Pharma stand next in line. Everybody wants to make the illegal drug pushers responsible, but many times the problem originates with the parents, government, doctors / mental health officials and Big Pharma.
> 
> Honestly, is there any possibility of using words that you will not misrepresent in order to get to the truth? You're not wanting a drug debate on a thread about a mass shooting are you? Would you, by any chance, be trying to justify drug use in America? I'm getting skeptical of your motives - ESPECIALLY when you add words to my posts and question facts already presented. Are you so much in favor of drugs that you don't care to save lives and maybe take away some of the liberals pretexts for assaulting our Rights? My motives are pretty transparent. Yours... not so much.


All of your links seem to substantiate my argument: that teens are NOT prescribed opiates. The ones who DO use them obtain them illegally. These are from YOUR provided links.
Many teens believe that prescription drugs are much safer than illegal street drugs because they are prescribed by a doctor.10
The top three prescription drugs used by high school seniors (Illegally, not PRESCRIBED) in 2017 were: Adderall (5.5 percent), tranquilizers (4.7 percent) and prescription opioids (4.2 percent).11
There's been a significant decline in the misuse of prescription opioids among teens over the past 15 years. For example, Vicodin use among high school seniors dropped from 10.5 percent in 2003 to 2 percent in 2017.12
Teens reported less availability to prescription painkillers in 2017, with only 35.8 percent of high school seniors saying they were easy to get versus 54 percent in 2010.12

Of all the links, only one addresses teens specifically... and it only asks what a parent should think or do if it occurs... such as in the case of Chrone's disease or other painful maladies. To say 25% of all opiates are prescribed to teenagers is an absurdity.

Oh, and I don't MISREPRESENT your words... I am very careful to copy and paste them. If you don't like what YOU are saying, you can change that. I cant.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> All of your links seem to substantiate my argument: that teens are NOT prescribed opiates. The ones who DO use them obtain them illegally. These are from YOUR provided links.
> Many teens believe that prescription drugs are much safer than illegal street drugs because they are prescribed by a doctor.10
> The top three prescription drugs used by high school seniors (Illegally, not PRESCRIBED) in 2017 were: Adderall (5.5 percent), tranquilizers (4.7 percent) and prescription opioids (4.2 percent).11
> There's been a significant decline in the misuse of prescription opioids among teens over the past 15 years. For example, Vicodin use among high school seniors dropped from 10.5 percent in 2003 to 2 percent in 2017.12
> Teens reported less availability to prescription painkillers in 2017, with only 35.8 percent of high school seniors saying they were easy to get versus 54 percent in 2010.12
> 
> Of all the links, only one addresses teens specifically... and it only asks what a parent should think or do if it occurs... such as in the case of Chrone's disease or other painful maladies. To say 25% of all opiates are prescribed to teenagers is an absurdity.
> 
> Oh, and I don't MISREPRESENT your words... I am very careful to copy and paste them. If you don't like what YOU are saying, you can change that. I cant.


And the answer was to my question is, NO, you do not want to simply try and understand things; you want to argue. The figures show that *nearly 25 percent of the people who misused painkillers got them from a doctor.* Does that confirm anything you've said on this thread?

Perhaps this quote from one of the links is one you agree with :

"_In 2007, Purdue Pharma did not admit wrongdoing when it paid $19.5 million to settle lawsuits with 26 states and the District of Columbia after being accused of aggressively marketing OxyContin to doctors while downplaying the risk of addiction. Nevada, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas were part of that agreement. Florida and North Dakota were not._"

You will have to reread the links if you don't know what you're agreeing to. Does this sound like something you're agreeing with?

"_OxyContin abuse among high school students is a particular problem. Four percent of high school seniors in the United States abused the drug at least once in the past year, according to the University of Michigan's Monitoring the Future Survey_."

https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6025/6025p.pdf

Too bad that the survey did not question the kids in grades 7 through 11. And that is your government figures. And this is what Time had to say:

"_In the face of the opioid crisis, President Donald Trump has called for the execution of drug dealers while Attorney General Jeff Sessions has announced a crackdown on doctors and drug stores illegally dispensing prescription painkillers. But *the Purdue Pharma case shows how the Justice Department contributed to this catastrophe by failing to hold drug company executives accountable to the same level of justice as street-level drug dealers*_."

Why Drug Execs Haven't Seen Justice for the Opioid Crisis | Time

I am sorry to inform you, but the bulk of most opioids are manufactured by Big Pharma and reach the streets much more easily than illegal drugs. If you cannot accept that fact, sin loi victor charlie. And yes you DO misrepresent my words and you HAVE added words - I'm just not that anal retentive to keep arguing this with you. I'm not in a freaking debate. My objective is to save lives, not try and continue a pissing match that 99 percent of the people don't give a rat's ass about.

If you don't want to help your fellow man, don't. Take what I've said to others who do the same work. Ask them what they think. But, you are lying about what is being said; misrepresenting the facts for your own amusement - and for what motive, I'll be damned if I understand. But, rather than try to draw me into your fantasy debate on a thread where we're talking about innocent victims being shot, do something productive with your time.

You take Trump's position; I'll take Sessions position and we can let it go at that. That will give me more time to help people rather than participate in this silliness. What do you say? I'm betting NO WAY IN HELL. Right?


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> And the answer was to my question is, NO, you do not want to simply try and understand things; you want to argue. The figures show that *nearly 25 percent of the people who misused painkillers got them from a doctor.* Does that confirm anything you've said on this thread?
> 
> Perhaps this quote from one of the links is one you agree with :
> 
> "_In 2007, Purdue Pharma did not admit wrongdoing when it paid $19.5 million to settle lawsuits with 26 states and the District of Columbia after being accused of aggressively marketing OxyContin to doctors while downplaying the risk of addiction. Nevada, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas were part of that agreement. Florida and North Dakota were not._"
> 
> You will have to reread the links if you don't know what you're agreeing to. Does this sound like something you're agreeing with?
> 
> "_OxyContin abuse among high school students is a particular problem. Four percent of high school seniors in the United States abused the drug at least once in the past year, according to the University of Michigan's Monitoring the Future Survey_."
> 
> https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6025/6025p.pdf
> 
> Too bad that the survey did not question the kids in grades 7 through 11. And that is your government figures. And this is what Time had to say:
> 
> "_In the face of the opioid crisis, President Donald Trump has called for the execution of drug dealers while Attorney General Jeff Sessions has announced a crackdown on doctors and drug stores illegally dispensing prescription painkillers. But *the Purdue Pharma case shows how the Justice Department contributed to this catastrophe by failing to hold drug company executives accountable to the same level of justice as street-level drug dealers*_."
> 
> Why Drug Execs Haven't Seen Justice for the Opioid Crisis | Time
> 
> I am sorry to inform you, but the bulk of most opioids are manufactured by Big Pharma and reach the streets much more easily than illegal drugs. If you cannot accept that fact, sin loi victor charlie. And yes you DO misrepresent my words and you HAVE added words - I'm just not that anal retentive to keep arguing this with you. I'm not in a freaking debate. My objective is to save lives, not try and continue a pissing match that 99 percent of the people don't give a rat's ass about.
> 
> If you don't want to help your fellow man, don't. Take what I've said to others who do the same work. Ask them what they think. But, you are lying about what is being said; misrepresenting the facts for your own amusement - and for what motive, I'll be damned if I understand. But, rather than try to draw me into your fantasy debate on a thread where we're talking about innocent victims being shot, do something productive with your time.
> 
> You take Trump's position; I'll take Sessions position and we can let it go at that. That will give me more time to help people rather than participate in this silliness. What do you say? I'm betting NO WAY IN HELL. Right?


As per usual, I am copying and pasting... NOT misrepresenting your words.
My objective is to save lives, not try and continue a pissing match that 99 percent of the people don't give a rat's ass about.

Your objective is to indulge your narcissism... nothing more. "Saving lives" or the appearance of such, is merely a vehicle in which to do so.

The figures show that nearly 25 percent of the people who misused painkillers got them from a doctor.

Which is a FAR CRY from 25% being prescribed to teenagers. Stop changing the goalposts, you are already on record in your own words. When you keep changing horses midstream like that, you could hurt yourself and need some opiates yourself.

"OxyContin abuse among high school students is a particular problem. Four percent of high school seniors in the United States abused the drug at least once in the past year, according to the University of Michigan's Monitoring the Future Survey."

So what? They weren't PRESCRIBED then, which is the argument here. Most of that 4% got them illegally... unless they had a serious and painful condition like cancer. More used alcohol illegally, as well as many other drugs. Besides the point. 25% of opiates are NOT prescribed to teens. Again, it's an absurdity.

That will give me more time to help people rather than participate in this silliness. What do you say? I'm betting NO WAY IN HELL. Right? 

Again, you are a serial narcissist. You aren't looking to help anyone, but rather DISPLAY and posture to serve your own ego. I wouldn't let a histrionic like you within 20 yards of a child... much less let you be involved in their lives.

I am sorry to inform you, but the bulk of most opioids are manufactured by Big Pharma and reach the streets much more easily than illegal drugs. If you cannot accept that fact, sin loi victor charlie. 

Sorry straw man, but that isn't the argument either. It's still about whether teens are eagerly PRESCRIBED these drugs (25% of them). They aren't.

Toodles!


----------



## Slippy

@StratMaster

You rock Sir!

How about Gretchen's version of Highway Star gee-tar solo?


----------



## Slippy

Or even better...When the Levee Breaks


----------



## Chiefster23

@StratMaster. Sir, Trying to have a reasonable conversation with 'resister' is a complete and total waste of time. He is a "know it all". Just ask him. He has been there and done that on every subject. He is an EXPERT! He has "the solutions" on God, religion, guns, politics, and now drugs in America. It doesn't matter what your experiences or education is. HE KNOWS BETTER! Quit wasting your time!


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> As per usual, I am copying and pasting... NOT misrepresenting your words.
> My objective is to save lives, not try and continue a pissing match that 99 percent of the people don't give a rat's ass about.
> 
> Your objective is to indulge your narcissism... nothing more. "Saving lives" or the appearance of such, is merely a vehicle in which to do so.
> 
> The figures show that nearly 25 percent of the people who misused painkillers got them from a doctor.
> 
> Which is a FAR CRY from 25% being prescribed to teenagers. Stop changing the goalposts, you are already on record in your own words. When you keep changing horses midstream like that, you could hurt yourself and need some opiates yourself.
> 
> "OxyContin abuse among high school students is a particular problem. Four percent of high school seniors in the United States abused the drug at least once in the past year, according to the University of Michigan's Monitoring the Future Survey."
> 
> So what? They weren't PRESCRIBED then, which is the argument here. Most of that 4% got them illegally... unless they had a serious and painful condition like cancer. More used alcohol illegally, as well as many other drugs. Besides the point. 25% of opiates are NOT prescribed to teens. Again, it's an absurdity.
> 
> That will give me more time to help people rather than participate in this silliness. What do you say? I'm betting NO WAY IN HELL. Right?
> 
> Again, you are a serial narcissist. You aren't looking to help anyone, but rather DISPLAY and posture to serve your own ego. I wouldn't let a histrionic like you within 20 yards of a child... much less let you be involved in their lives.
> 
> I am sorry to inform you, but the bulk of most opioids are manufactured by Big Pharma and reach the streets much more easily than illegal drugs. If you cannot accept that fact, sin loi victor charlie.
> 
> Sorry straw man, but that isn't the argument either. It's still about whether teens are eagerly PRESCRIBED these drugs (25% of them). They aren't.
> 
> Toodles!


1) No sir, you added words on at least one occasion. Other times you flat out misrepresented words you could bend to serve your own narrative.

2) How many needy people are *YOU* tending to right now? If the answer is zero, you are projecting

3) You are using your *OPINION *to dispute my figures. While the article does not say the age group by which teens are being prescribed these drugs that make up the 25 percent, there was *another* link which stated that 4 percent of seniors in high school (don't recall the exact details) who have been prescribed *Oxycontin alone*.

Perhaps the reason facts and figures are so hard to some by is due, maybe that people who have to rely on and litigate this stuff don't need you to trivialize the importance on the issue.

Let's be fair here. You haven't shown me a damn thing except that you want to be right in an argument. You don't want to build any bridge of understanding. You'd rather lose your Rights to keep and bear Arms rather than to get involved and do something positive to learn and help the situation.

Being able to understand my links is not for people who hate to think. Everyone here should look at the links carefully and see what we're talking about in terms of numbers. When the manufacturers of Oxycontin were sued, how many prescriptions were written? How many went to adults and how many to teens? Doe it really matter? stratmaster is denying the depth of the drug problem and he wants me to be on the defensive. Why argue drug stats on a thread about a mass shooting? Suppose I'm 100 percent wrong. Where does that leave good old strat, out there trying to prove he's right and you cannot challenge HIS view? REALLY? Two wrongs make a right?

What do you suppose his REAL interest is in this? Is HE a drug addict? Is he a liberal playing you (he's getting slapped on the back by a federal informant, you know)? His interests certainly are not geared toward solving any problem. That requires extrapolating a lot of complex information that most of you don't give a crap about. I told him it's not something not conducive to a thread like this.

In Georgia 7 out of every 10 inmates lacks a GED. For every person with in a mental health facility with a drug problem, there are MORE than 10 drug addicts in prison over drug related offenses not related to distribution. The facts are that there are BILLIONS of dollars worth of lawsuits being filed against legal drug manufacturers in this country.

"_Misuse of prescription opioids, CNS depressants, and stimulants is a serious public health problem in the United States. Although most people take prescription medications responsibly, in 2017, an estimated 18 million people (more than 6 percent of those aged 12 and older) have* misused such medications at least once in the past year*_."

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicati...ion-drugs/what-scope-prescription-drug-misuse

The above article then goes on to talk about _"non-medical_" uses of the drugs which is different from misuse. How many of these "_misuses_" involve sharing drugs with others? We cannot get at that figure without looking at where our youth are today... too long and to complex for a thread. Stramaster knows this. His interests seem NOT to be on children, but focusing on me as an individual.


----------



## The Resister

Chiefster23 said:


> @StratMaster. Sir, Trying to have a reasonable conversation with 'resister' is a complete and total waste of time. He is a "know it all". Just ask him. He has been there and done that on every subject. He is an EXPERT! He has "the solutions" on God, religion, guns, politics, and now drugs in America. It doesn't matter what your experiences or education is. HE KNOWS BETTER! Quit wasting your time!


Well thank you very much Chiefster23. I did finish my degree up in theology and am delivering sermons in different places while we look for a permanent spot. God Bless you for that. I would be more than happy to grant you your wish when you point out where I said I know "_everything_" about God or religion. Can you point us to the post where I claimed to know everything?

To be accurate, I spent a LOT of time studying the Bible and religion. In all honesty, I'd say I know about 2 percent of God's Word on a good day. Even then I'm probably FOS. You cannot live long enough to understand most of the Bible. Every time you find yourself in a situation, you find yourself searching the Scripture for the right answer. If someone confirms what you believe, that does not necessarily prove what they know. There are times when we can eliminate wrong answers in the Bible. None of us will be able to fathom the depth of that book, so I challenge your statement there. If you cannot produce proof of that statement, grant me my wish and stay off my threads. I won't bother calling you out or calling you names, just challenging you to man up or bow out.

Guns - I don't know squat. My expertise lies with knowing the M1a / M14 weaponry and ONLY because I knew Hook Boutin and learned a lot from him. Google him. So, what I say about that class of weaponry is a repeat of what he told me

Politics - I don't understand politics. Strategies I do. Amazingly, it was revealed to me that the Gun Owners of America have now employed the same, exact strategy I've been advocating for a couple of decades. My idea was to attach an amendment regarding SSRIs to every gun bill; GOA is advocating attaching an amendment to every gun bill that would include reciprocity. If you think they're wrong, don't support them, but they were not the first to suggest the strategy

Drugs - I couldn't tell you the difference between an aspirin and the most lethal drug in America. OTOH, I work mainly in social services. Last year as I was finishing up my education, we started going full bore on helping people in the community. Preachers today do not go to people's homes and help them with their needs. They don't even show up and ask the elderly how they're doing. The preacher goes to church and says a few words, passes a collection plate and that day is done. I genuinely am trying to help those that want a second chance in life get it.

I'll wake up and take people to job interviews, go get decent clothes (especially for job interviews) from other churches that take in clothes donations. We take people to food banks, hold one on one counseling sessions with people to get them back into society. I will even take people to the classes to get a GED. I'm convinced that if I had met this last shooter, a few weeks of working with him would probably have averted that shooting. I will never know. But, we have a duty to leave America in better shape now than when we leave. Others died to secure what we have. So now we take the focus off The Resister.

If having a conversation with me is a waste of time, why are YOU on this thread? Amusement? Entertainment? Did you do anything yesterday or today to pay it forward for the *many blessings* our Lord has bestowed upon you? How are you living your life? If you meet the Lord today, can you justify your time on this earth? Can you explain why arguing with what you believe to be an idiot is a constructive use of the limited time you have in this life? Do you have a family? Wouldn't some quality time with them be a better investment than this?

How does joining with others to insult and belittle a brother in Christ benefit mankind? If the person you were opposing had any influence - like Donald Trump or Nancy Pelosi, you might claim some good would come from alerting your fellow Americans to their shenanigans. I'm in the dark on this one. If I'm as bad as you claim, one should be questioning why you are on this thread at all. You walked onto a thread started by the *LEAST INFLUENTIAL* figure on this discussion board. You waste time for what again? Is what you're doing on this thread something you would be proud to explain to your maker? When things bother you to the point that an unimportant figure can take your time of day and shorten your potential to do something constructive, it might signal that you need to think about your life's priorities.

God Bless Chiefster23 Have a Blessed Day.


----------



## The Tourist

*@The Resister*, I just read the thread above. That was a great, factual and calm exchange. Try working that same style on all of your posts, it's just a forum, and I've found you reap what you sew. There are lots of Christians here--I'm one. But that does not mean we are all meek and mild. And even Father Simon of Relevant Radio says self defense is permitted. Good luck here in the future!


----------



## bigwheel

Well I lost the thread but will say Resistor is right about the Bible. Its the Mind of God and no human can understand it all. Now a four year old can understand the essential stuff meaning those parts that result in Salvation..Kindergarten if you will.... but on some of the deep mysteries a person just got to pray and and take a guess. One of my old Fundy Baptist Preacher pals often claimed he had studied the Bible daily and dilligently for fifty years and each day he learned something new. I have studied it much less than that guy..but enough to know bragging about doing good deeds for folks robs the braggert of whatever blessing he might have recieved by keeping his/her mouth shut about it. A person who does that consistently might want to consider repenting. 
https://www.gotquestions.org/left-hand-know-right-hand-doing.html


----------



## StratMaster

Chiefster23 said:


> @StratMaster. Sir, Trying to have a reasonable conversation with 'resister' is a complete and total waste of time. He is a "know it all". Just ask him. He has been there and done that on every subject. He is an EXPERT! He has "the solutions" on God, religion, guns, politics, and now drugs in America. It doesn't matter what your experiences or education is. HE KNOWS BETTER! Quit wasting your time!


That's probably good advice.


----------



## StratMaster

Slippy said:


> @StratMaster
> 
> You rock Sir!
> 
> How about Gretchen's version of Highway Star gee-tar solo?


She's wonderful. I saw Deep Purple live in '74, one of my very favorite songs.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> 1) No sir, you added words on at least one occasion. Other times you flat out misrepresented words you could bend to serve your own narrative.
> 
> 2) How many needy people are *YOU* tending to right now? If the answer is zero, you are projecting
> 
> 3) You are using your *OPINION *to dispute my figures. While the article does not say the age group by which teens are being prescribed these drugs that make up the 25 percent, there was *another* link which stated that 4 percent of seniors in high school (don't recall the exact details) who have been prescribed *Oxycontin alone*.
> 
> Perhaps the reason facts and figures are so hard to some by is due, maybe that people who have to rely on and litigate this stuff don't need you to trivialize the importance on the issue.
> 
> Let's be fair here. You haven't shown me a damn thing except that you want to be right in an argument. You don't want to build any bridge of understanding. You'd rather lose your Rights to keep and bear Arms rather than to get involved and do something positive to learn and help the situation.
> 
> Being able to understand my links is not for people who hate to think. Everyone here should look at the links carefully and see what we're talking about in terms of numbers. When the manufacturers of Oxycontin were sued, how many prescriptions were written? How many went to adults and how many to teens? Doe it really matter? stratmaster is denying the depth of the drug problem and he wants me to be on the defensive. Why argue drug stats on a thread about a mass shooting? Suppose I'm 100 percent wrong. Where does that leave good old strat, out there trying to prove he's right and you cannot challenge HIS view? REALLY? Two wrongs make a right?
> 
> What do you suppose his REAL interest is in this? Is HE a drug addict? Is he a liberal playing you (he's getting slapped on the back by a federal informant, you know)? His interests certainly are not geared toward solving any problem. That requires extrapolating a lot of complex information that most of you don't give a crap about. Being able to understand my links is not for people who hate to think.
> 
> In Georgia 7 out of every 10 inmates lacks a GED. For every person with in a mental health facility with a drug problem, there are MORE than 10 drug addicts in prison over drug related offenses not related to distribution. The facts are that there are BILLIONS of dollars worth of lawsuits being filed against legal drug manufacturers in this country.
> 
> "_Misuse of prescription opioids, CNS depressants, and stimulants is a serious public health problem in the United States. Although most people take prescription medications responsibly, in 2017, an estimated 18 million people (more than 6 percent of those aged 12 and older) have* misused such medications at least once in the past year*_."
> 
> https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicati...ion-drugs/what-scope-prescription-drug-misuse
> 
> The above article then goes on to talk about _"non-medical_" uses of the drugs which is different from misuse. How many of these "_misuses_" involve sharing drugs with others? We cannot get at that figure without looking at where our youth are today... too long and to complex for a thread. Stramaster knows this. His interests seem NOT to be on children, but focusing on me as an individual.


1) No sir, you added words on at least one occasion. Other times you flat out misrepresented words you could bend to serve your own narrative.

Copied. And. Pasted.

2) How many needy people are *YOU* tending to right now? If the answer is zero, you are projecting

If the number of people I were personally tending were, say, 600,000... it still wouldn't help an argument. One has nothing to do with the other.

Perhaps the reason facts and figures are so hard to some by is due, maybe that people who have to rely on and litigate this stuff don't need you to trivialize the importance on the issue.

Oh, absolutely likely! The reason your "facts and figures" are so hard to come by is due to ME specifically trivializing the issue. What a powerful influence I have!

Being able to understand my links is not for people who hate to think.

That sort of LOOKS like a sentence, but... what?!

Stramaster knows this. His interests seem NOT to be on children, but focusing on me as an individual. 

The last page in the Romantic Adventure novel old Trans is writing about himself... he saved the children against the black hat guy who didn't care... (didn't care meaning IF you don't agree with his "dot connecting" and find his arguments specious and absurd, you DON'T LIKE CHILDREN!!!). This is the same absurdly winding path by which he meanders... long and tedious... to his EVERY conclusion.


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> 1) No sir, you added words on at least one occasion. Other times you flat out misrepresented words you could bend to serve your own narrative.
> 
> Copied. And. Pasted.
> 
> 2) How many needy people are *YOU* tending to right now? If the answer is zero, you are projecting
> 
> If the number of people I were personally tending were, say, 600,000... it still wouldn't help an argument. One has nothing to do with the other.
> 
> Perhaps the reason facts and figures are so hard to some by is due, maybe that people who have to rely on and litigate this stuff don't need you to trivialize the importance on the issue.
> 
> Oh, absolutely likely! The reason your "facts and figures" are so hard to come by is due to ME specifically trivializing the issue. What a powerful influence I have!
> 
> Being able to understand my links is not for people who hate to think.
> 
> That sort of LOOKS like a sentence, but... what?!
> 
> Stramaster knows this. His interests seem NOT to be on children, but focusing on me as an individual.
> 
> The last page in the Romantic Adventure novel old Trans is writing about himself... he saved the children against the black hat guy who didn't care... (didn't care meaning IF you don't agree with his "dot connecting" and find his arguments specious and absurd, you DON'T LIKE CHILDREN!!!). This is the same absurdly winding path by which he meanders... long and tedious... to his EVERY conclusion.


1) You continue to lie. Adding to posts is NOT copy and paste. Won't argue the point again

2) So you're here to troll and argue. Not interested

3) If you find my threads long, tedious, and meandering, what are you doing here? What makes me worth so much of your time? Are you doing anything,* anything at all* that we might consider supporting that would challenge gun control with proposals to lower the number of people being killed without gun control as the solution?

4) Your motives seem to be in question here. I'm working my ass off to help people understand an issue. What, precisely, are YOU doing?


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> 1) You continue to lie. Adding to posts is NOT copy and paste. Won't argue the point again
> 
> 2) So you're here to troll and argue. Not interested
> 
> 3) If you find my threads long, tedious, and meandering, what are you doing here? What makes me worth so much of your time? Are you doing anything,* anything at all* that we might consider supporting that would challenge gun control with proposals to lower the number of people being killed without gun control as the solution?
> 
> 4) Your motives seem to be in question here. I'm working my ass off to help people understand an issue. What, precisely, are YOU doing?


 I'm working my ass off to help people understand an issue.

Copied. And. Pasted.

We've been over this. You are working your ass off to serve your narcissism. People have repeatedly told you, at length, they don't need or want your "help".

What makes me worth so much of your time? 

Right back atcha! My God, you have thousands to "tend to", who might never live to see another dawn without your selfless succour! Imbecilic minds which, without your benevolent guidance, might spin and boil in helpless agony without your stabilizing influence ever present! Why then do YOU have so much time for ME???? Answer: narcissism. As long as I post any dissenting comments, you will be back here foaming at the mouth like "Old Faithful".


----------



## Denton

*Yawn*

Y'all decided on who whose is biggest, yet? :glasses:


----------



## Denton

Y'all see what I did with the thick-glasses emoticon? :vs_laugh:


----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> Y'all see what I did with the thick-glasses emoticon? :vs_laugh:


Yeah, I caught that... good one LOL. And I'm about done now.


----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


> Yeah, I caught that... good one LOL. And I'm about done now.


Good, as I'm not going to be the one to hold the ruler and do the judging!


----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> Good, as I'm not going to be the one to hold the ruler and do the judging!


Ruler's not going to cut it...

View attachment 95193


----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


> Ruler's not going to cut it...
> 
> View attachment 95193


Nothing like modesty, and that's nothing like modesty. :tango_face_smile:

You know, this thread would have been pretty good had y'all refrained from going personal.

I know, he started it. No, you started it. Wait; Y'all started it. Y'all can bicker about that, too, but nobody will remember or bother to comb through the pages to see who threw the first punch.

Why can't y'all be full of love and empathy for your fellow human beings like I am?


----------



## Chiefster23

Denton said:


> Good, as I'm not going to be the one to hold the ruler and do the judging!


Ruler? You give us too much credit! Some us are so old that a micrometer may be more appropriate.


----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> Nothing like modesty, and that's nothing like modesty. :tango_face_smile:
> 
> You know, this thread would have been pretty good had y'all refrained from going personal.
> 
> I know, he started it. No, you started it. Wait; Y'all started it. Y'all can bicker about that, too, but nobody will remember or bother to comb through the pages to see who threw the first punch.
> 
> Why can't y'all be full of love and empathy for your fellow human beings like I am?


It was just my turn. I do seem to remember some guy - nice guy and all, maybe a moderator as well - going back and forth at length with the same enthusiasm... if only I could remember his name? Sweet fella.


----------



## Denton

StratMaster said:


> It was just my turn. I do seem to remember some guy - nice guy and all, maybe a moderator as well - going back and forth at length with the same enthusiasm... if only I could remember his name? Sweet fella.


I'll bet he is full of love and empathy for his fellow human being, isn't he? Ruggedly handsome, too, maybe? With a voice for printed media, too?


----------



## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> I'm working my ass off to help people understand an issue.
> 
> Copied. And. Pasted.
> 
> We've been over this. You are working your ass off to serve your narcissism. People have repeatedly told you, at length, they don't need or want your "help".
> 
> What makes me worth so much of your time?
> 
> Right back atcha! My God, you have thousands to "tend to", who might never live to see another dawn without your selfless succour! Imbecilic minds which, without your benevolent guidance, might spin and boil in helpless agony without your stabilizing influence ever present! Why then do YOU have so much time for ME???? Answer: narcissism. As long as I post any dissenting comments, you will be back here foaming at the mouth like "Old Faithful".


 1) You lying don't change the bottom line

2) I started the thread. That's why I'm here. What are you doing here? I mean, why are you here other than to have a penis measuring contest? Is the name calling being productive? Are you here trying to convince me or YOU?


----------



## Slippy

This ain't no measuring contest, this is the normal result of little man jimmy being little man jimmy. Time to get rid of the fool.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> *Yawn*
> 
> Y'all decided on who whose is biggest, yet? :glasses:


Hot dang. You been a peeking.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> 1) You lying don't change the bottom line
> 
> 2) I started the thread. That's why I'm here. What are you doing here? I mean, why are you here other than to have a penis measuring contest? Is the name calling being productive? Are you here trying to convince me or YOU?


Dumbass, we're doing some male-bonding, here. Join in. Group hug. It's OK; Strat says we can keep our socks on if it makes us feel better.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Hot dang. You been a peeking.


Peeking? Did you look at yourselves? More like squinting, although @Slippy was getting jealous of you both!


----------



## The Resister

Slippy said:


> This ain't no measuring contest, this is the normal result of little man jimmy being little man jimmy. Time to get rid of the fool.


Little man? Quit peeking when I'm in the stall pervert.

Censorship? Seig Heil. Yep. Don't want to discuss it; ban the S.O.B. It's great Slippy, but you still cannot kill ideals. Maybe you should be gotten rid of for such a warrant less attack. It had no bearing on the OP. Do you have ANYTHING on this thread actually *ABOUT* the thread?


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Little man? Quit peeking when I'm in the stall pervert.
> 
> Censorship? Seig Heil. Yep. Don't want to discuss it; ban the S.O.B. It's great Slippy, but you still cannot kill ideals. Maybe you should be gotten rid of for such a warrant less attack. It had no bearing on the OP. Do you have ANYTHING on this thread actually *ABOUT* the thread?


Ideas or ideals?

Don't mess with @Slippy; he might be old and shriveled but when he takes one of his pills, hookers run for cover!


----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> Dumbass, we're doing some male-bonding, here. Join in. Group hug. It's OK; Strat says we can keep our socks on if it makes us feel better.


"We aren't going to swap spit in the shower 'till the wee hours of the morning..." Gunny Highway


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Peeking? Did you look at yourselves? More like squinting, although @Slippy was getting jealous of you both!


Annie - don't read this post.

If I'd had an inch more I'd have been a king - and an inch less I'd have been a queen. Slippy is jealous of everybody on this thread, especially me. But, I'm feeling good. At least I have more than at least one guy on this thread.


----------



## Slippy




----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Ideas or ideals?
> 
> Don't mess with @Slippy; he might be old and shriveled but when he takes one of his pills, hookers run for cover!


Ideals - a standard to be aimed at. Ideas? Fresh out for now.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Annie - don't read this post.
> 
> If I'd had an inch more I'd have been a king - and an inch less I'd have been a queen. Slippy is jealous of everybody on this thread, especially me. But, I'm feeling good. At least I have more than at least one guy on this thread.


See, your post comes across as mean-spirited. This was a perfect opportunity for you to have responded with humor. SMDH.


----------



## Slippy




----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> I'll bet he is full of love and empathy for his fellow human being, isn't he? Ruggedly handsome, too, maybe? With a voice for printed media, too?


Yeah, that's the one!


----------



## Denton

Slippy said:


>


Didn't make it beyond 45 seconds before I started falling asleep.

Not your fault; I've been binge-listening AC/DC.


----------



## Denton

That's it? That's the end of the male bonding?

Y'all suck! @The Resister even agreed to dive naked into the pool of Jell-O! Ain't that right?
@Slippy did it about ten years ago. We have the video in the admin break room.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> See, your post comes across as mean-spirited. This was a perfect opportunity for you to have responded with humor. SMDH.


You didn't like my humor that I didn't advise ladies not to see? Slippy is the only one that won't get it. Well him and you. I would think outside the box, but you won't let me out of the freaking box.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> You didn't like my humor that I didn't advise ladies not to see? Slippy is the only one that won't get it. Well him and you. I would think outside the box, but you won't let me out of the freaking box.


Sorry. I apologize.


----------



## bigwheel

Uncle Slippy defintiely needs to be punished. Good point.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Sorry. I apologize.


It's okay, man. No sweat. After church this morning, the wife wanted to pick up some stuff from Wallyworld as her mother moved in with us this week after being hospitalized. I picked up some salad dressing with Paul Newman's picture on it. My mind was still thinking of back in the day when they put pictures of missing kids on milk cartons. Do you remember those days? I saw Paul Newman's picture on that salad dressing and thought he was missing. Turns out he passed away years ago. I don't get out much and don't watch much tv.

My tv is still hooked up to an outside antenna. No joke. This kid (about 28 years old) comes over to give an estimate on gutters and looks at the antenna and asked me what it was. NOBODY in this whole neighborhood besides me has one. This kid had never seen one. So maybe all this whizzing match stuff might be due to the fact that I still live in the stone age, speak a different language, and on't understand the nuances of computer conversations all the time.

A man a few years younger than me wanted to talk and he said he is trying to change his life, but his one weakness was is that if his buttons were pushed, he let out with some really nasty language. I had to admit that he was not alone. The both of us agree to meet once a week and go back over what we said and did throughout the week and how we ended up swearing like two drunk sailors on a Friday night.

I'll catch up with the 21st Century socially if takes the next century to do it.


----------



## bigwheel

Denton said:


> Sorry. I apologize.


Wow. Turning the other cheek is nice.


----------



## bigwheel

The Resister said:


> It's okay, man. No sweat. After church this morning, the wife wanted to pick up some stuff from Wallyworld as her mother moved in with us this week after being hospitalized. I picked up some salad dressing with Paul Newman's picture on it. My mind was still thinking of back in the day when they put pictures of missing kids on milk cartons. Do you remember those days? I saw Paul Newman's picture on that salad dressing and thought he was missing. Turns out he passed away years ago. I don't get out much and don't watch much tv.
> 
> My tv is still hooked up to an outside antenna. No joke. This kid (about 28 years old) comes over to give an estimate on gutters and looks at the antenna and asked me what it was. NOBODY in this whole neighborhood besides me has one. This kid had never seen one. So maybe all this whizzing match stuff might be due to the fact that I still live in the stone age, speak a different language, and on't understand the nuances of computer conversations all the time.
> 
> A man a few years younger than me wanted to talk and he said he is trying to change his life, but his one weakness was is that if his buttons were pushed, he let out with some really nasty language. I had to admit that he was not alone. The both of us agree to meet once a week and go back over what we said and did throughout the week and how we ended up swearing like two drunk sailors on a Friday night.
> 
> I'll catch up with the 21st Century socially if takes the next century to do it.


Sounds like your making a hand.. good job! Sorta reminds me of our life. We just moved into an empty Nester 2 bedroom one bathroom house about 20 years ago when the Litle Brides Mama got sick and moved in with us...not long after the daughter droppped off two of our grandkids to spend a few days..and forgot to come pick em back up till quite a few years later. We had kinfolks packed in like cord wood for quite a while and my wife was the primary care giver for her Mama. Thankfully a yup had built a playhouse in the back yard of the house which was a stout built shell. A couple of pals came and fixed it up enough to be Mama in Laws Ponderosa. TV Bed AC etc. She could watch the TV preachers and O'Reilly on Fox and stay cozy. She died in the little mini house. We lived through it the grandkids have a life and the Ponderosa is now my world famous prepper shack man cave. As old Job said..."Man who is born of woman is short of days and full of trouble." We all lived through it and so can you. Cheer up.


----------



## Denton

bigwheel said:


> Uncle Slippy defintiely needs to be punished. Good point.


I would, be he enjoys solitary confinement. Whenever we throw him in the cooler, @Slippy just asks for a baseball and a glove.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> It's okay, man. No sweat. After church this morning, the wife wanted to pick up some stuff from Wallyworld as her mother moved in with us this week after being hospitalized. I picked up some salad dressing with Paul Newman's picture on it. My mind was still thinking of back in the day when they put pictures of missing kids on milk cartons. Do you remember those days? I saw Paul Newman's picture on that salad dressing and thought he was missing. Turns out he passed away years ago. I don't get out much and don't watch much tv.
> 
> My tv is still hooked up to an outside antenna. No joke. This kid (about 28 years old) comes over to give an estimate on gutters and looks at the antenna and asked me what it was. NOBODY in this whole neighborhood besides me has one. This kid had never seen one. So maybe all this whizzing match stuff might be due to the fact that I still live in the stone age, speak a different language, and on't understand the nuances of computer conversations all the time.
> 
> A man a few years younger than me wanted to talk and he said he is trying to change his life, but his one weakness was is that if his buttons were pushed, he let out with some really nasty language. I had to admit that he was not alone. The both of us agree to meet once a week and go back over what we said and did throughout the week and how we ended up swearing like two drunk sailors on a Friday night.
> 
> I'll catch up with the 21st Century socially if takes the next century to do it.


I'm gonna tell you something; this internet communication stuff isn't easy. I stayed in trouble when I first found out about this message board thing, about twenty years ago. It took me a while to realize how I write doesn't convey my emotion. In short, it is easy for me to come across as an ass. Conveying levity isn't an easy thing when typing, at least for some of us. 
I'd imagine you and I would laugh our asses off were we to meet at a coffee shop.

Do I remember why kids' pictures were on milk cartons? I saw why, first hand. The world is a sick place.


----------



## bigwheel

He obviously watched too many Steve McQueen movies or ate too many grits over the years. That behavior dont sound normal to the untrained eye.


----------



## Denton

bigwheel said:


> He obviously watched too many Steve McQueen movies or ate too many grits over the years. That behavior dont sound normal to the untrained eye.


Ain't no way to eat too many grits. You've been too long in the sun.


----------



## bigwheel

Denton said:


> I'm gonna tell you something; this internet communication stuff isn't easy. I stayed in trouble when I first found out about this message board thing, about twenty years ago. It took me a while to realize how I write doesn't convey my emotion. In short, it is easy for me to come across as an ass. Conveying levity isn't an easy thing when typing, at least for some of us.
> I'd imagine you and I would laugh our asses off were we to meet at a coffee shop.
> 
> Do I remember why kids' pictures were on milk cartons? I saw why, first hand. The world is a sick place.


You shoulda been around in the wild and wooly frontier days of the BBS era of the 90s. We had a dedicarted phone line just to handle all the bs and other nuggests of wisdom channeled down the lines. We had the biggest Renegade Board in DFW for several years. Best door games in town too. You young pups have it too easy. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renegade_(BBS)


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## Denton

bigwheel said:


> You shoulda been around in the wild and wooly frontier days of the BBS era of the 90s. We had a dedicarted phone line just to handle all the bs and other nuggests of wisdom channeled down the lines. We had the biggest Renegade Board in DFW for several years. Best door games in town too. You young pups have it too easy.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renegade_(BBS)


I didn't even know there was an internet in the mid-'90s.


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## The Tourist

Denton said:


> I didn't even know there was an internet in the *mid-'90s*.


One of my friends loaned me a very primitive computer. The upshot was that it was wired for DSL, the dial up service. You'd turn it on, seemingly to warm it up, and after a bit boxes of spam showed up. After deleting them all, you could see the screen, and I could even talk to friends on a limited one-on-one chat exchange. I thought I was on the Starship Enterprise.


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## Kauboy

When did this become a nostalgia thread???

Oh well, I'll chip in my nerdy POV. I remember our first computer, likely not as old as some of you farts had, but to this IT guy, it was ancient. 25Mhz processor, Windows 3.1, 4MB of memory and 202MB of hard drive space. Purchased at a Montgomery Wards for something in the area of $1,400. AOL and dial-up internet. Getting kicked off every time the handset was picked up.
I still recall the very first website we all looked up as a family. The Bumper Dumper | " The Original Hitch Mountable Portable Toilet "
You're welcome.
:tango_face_grin:


----------



## The Tourist

Denton said:


> Ain't no way to eat too many grits. You've been too long in the sun.


Being a northern boy, but a in my heart I'm a Son of the Sod, my parents once took me below the Mason-Dixon line. I loved the food, I went to a fancy breakfast place in New Orleans and was treated like a king, and a rural country breakfast was my passion every day.

But I was not up on the lingo. One morning a feisty waitress asked me if I wanted grits. I told her yes. She then asked, "_Hominy_?" So, I cluelessly responded, "_Oh, about three or four_..."


----------



## The Resister

Kauboy said:


> When did this become a nostalgia thread???
> 
> Oh well, I'll chip in my nerdy POV. I remember our first computer, likely not as old as some of you farts had, but to this IT guy, it was ancient. 25Mhz processor, Windows 3.1, 4MB of memory and 202MB of hard drive space. Purchased at a Montgomery Wards for something in the area of $1,400. AOL and dial-up internet. Getting kicked off every time the handset was picked up.
> I still recall the very first website we all looked up as a family. The Bumper Dumper | " The Original Hitch Mountable Portable Toilet "
> You're welcome.
> :tango_face_grin:


Somebody mistook a mass shooting thread for a referendum on drugs, then it became a whizzing contest, personality contest, group hug, and now we're living in the good ol days again. Where were you?

Now we up to the days of DSL, but before that we had public meetings. I'm kind of glad the first era of computers is over. I knew a political activist guy once that would get upwards of a thousand pages of junk printed off his computer a day on a dot matrix printer. Now the whole thing is baffling to me. I sometimes miss those days when we would all sit around in the living room and plan out strategies to save the world - some of which we actually tried. That led to bigger meetings and more successes - but, the Internet came along and changed the way we do business.


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## T-Man 1066

I get a kick as to the way threads migrate. I came back thinking somebody was fixin to have a "board meeting" and now we are going down electronic memory lane. Me - C-64, 300 baud, sometimes I could rock it up to 415 baud without too much garbage ascii, 7 line D-Dials and was even a BBS admin at one point.. go C-Net!


----------



## StratMaster

Kauboy said:


> When did this become a nostalgia thread???
> 
> Oh well, I'll chip in my nerdy POV. I remember our first computer, likely not as old as some of you farts had, but to this IT guy, it was ancient. 25Mhz processor, Windows 3.1, 4MB of memory and 202MB of hard drive space. Purchased at a Montgomery Wards for something in the area of $1,400. AOL and dial-up internet. Getting kicked off every time the handset was picked up.
> I still recall the very first website we all looked up as a family. The Bumper Dumper | " The Original Hitch Mountable Portable Toilet "
> You're welcome.
> :tango_face_grin:


Hah! We had a "Trash 80" (TRS80 from Radio Shack) and a Commodore 64... as well as one of these:









At the cutting edge baby!


----------



## Gator Monroe

Denton said:


> I didn't even know there was an internet in the mid-'90s.


That is when I got my first Laptop (And began battling Liberals & Anti-American Ideas )


----------



## MisterMills357

Denton said:


> Years ago I drove doubles for a LTL company. One of its terminals was in Jacksonville. It was the only terminal I was told by the company to use caution when arriving at it at night. Many a time I dropped and then hooked doubles that had bullet holes from stray rounds which had been fired by gang-bangers.


I did not know that Jacksonville was like that, but anymore, I take it for granted that any city, must be considered dangerous.



rice paddy daddy said:


> Jacksonville is broken into five Zones, or patrol areas, by the Jacksonville Sheriffs Office.
> For the last 17 years of my career before hanging it up I managed a building materials distribution warehouse in Zone 5, the one with the highest crime rates.
> This is the part of town where "they" shoot cops. The vice squad used to do prostitution busts in my parking lot. Dead bodies were dumped on our block.
> 
> I was always armed with AT LEAST a 357 magnum. Often my AK was out in the truck.
> 
> And someone here wants to lecture me on gang violence, drug dealing and its associated crimes - burglary, theft, prostitution.


I started packing a .357 or .45 about 40 years ago, when I went out of town. I rolled into Saint Louis on one of my road trips, in my car, and stopped at a rest area. There was a carload of creeps there, who acted like they did not care if they lived or died; that was 40 years ago. So, I left, and if they have started in on me for any reason, I would have used a Super Blackhawk on them.



StratMaster said:


> The #1 warning for one of the ones I was on was heart attack (thanks for that).
> Anyway, as in all the old sniper/clock tower/freeway overpass killings in the past, there are nuts who want to shoot a LOT of people (or drive a vehicle into a crowd, or set a bomb, or poison patients, or bury 20+ hookers under their porch, yadida yadida YADIDA). Nuts who preceded SSRI's. Nuts who are simply murdering, narcissistic, pathological people waiting for their time and place to "happen". The best way to know for sure (unfortunately unavailable to us) would to run and compare an alternate reality: a reality in which none of these kids had any SSRI's. If they went ahead and killed anyway... well, that would seem to explain why they were in counseling or psychiatric care in the first place. If they didn't, then there would be a strong argument for them causing murderous rampages. But people have, do and will exist who simply do this because it's there to be done. We don't really LIKE that fact, but it's true nonetheless.


It is worse no than it was in the 1970's, we have people in America, who don't have a conscious. They will kill as readily as a Taliban tribesman will. And that is new in America. 
The only similarity that they seem to share, is going through a school system, where atheism is the god. And they have had their conscious burned out by foolish doctrines and hard drugs.



Slippy said:


> Or even better...When the Levee Breaks


That is a great video, those girls nailed it.



The Tourist said:


> *@The Resister*, I just read the thread above. That was a great, factual and calm exchange. Try working that same style on all of your posts, it's just a forum, and I've found you reap what you sew. There are lots of Christians here--I'm one. But that does not mean we are all meek and mild. And even Father Simon of Relevant Radio says self defense is permitted. Good luck here in the future!


Ditto, I am a Christian, but I will kill in self-defense.


----------



## The Resister

MisterMills357 said:


> Ditto, I am a Christian, but I will kill in self-defense.


Samson took the jawbone of an ass and killed a thousand men

God saved all the Israelites simply because Phineas took a javelin and killed an Israelite that had relations with a non-Israelite in violation of God's command.

There is a time and a place of everything.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

MisterMills357 said:


> I did not know that Jacksonville was like that, but anymore, I take it for granted that any city, must be considered dangerous.


Jacksonville has long been the "Murder Capitol Of Florida".
Except for the odd jealousy killing, the rest of the murders are armed robberies, drug deals gone bad, and rival gangs doing retaliation killings.


----------



## StratMaster

@MisterMills357 
It is worse no than it was in the 1970's, we have people in America, who don't have a conscious. They will kill as readily as a Taliban tribesman will. And that is new in America. 
The only similarity that they seem to share, is going through a school system, where atheism is the god. And they have had their conscious burned out by foolish doctrines and hard drugs.

You can make that argument, and it MAY WELL be worse now, but I say there was ALWAYS people like this around. Remember, in the 70's we didn't have the internet. I could list people in the '70's with no conscience ALL DAY: should we start with Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy? Charles Manson? 
1949, Camden, N.J. 13 killed. Howard Unruh, a World War II veteran, walks the streets of Camden killing random people.
•1966, Austin. 18 killed. Charles Whitman fires from a tower on the University of Texas campus.
•1982, Wilkes-Barre, Pa. 13 killed. George Banks kills five of his children and 8 other people.
•1984, San Ysidro, Calif. 21 killed. James Huberty enters a McDonald's and begins shooting.
•1986, Edmond, Okla. 14 killed. Postal worker Patrick Sherrill kills 14 people at his workplace.
•1990, Jacksonville, Fla. 10 killed. James Pough kills 8 people after his car is repossessed. He'd killed two others earlier.
•1991, Killeen, Tex. 23 killed. George Hennard drives his truck into a cafeteria and then opens fire.
•1999, Littleton, Colo. 13 killed. The shooting at Columbine High School is the deadliest high school shooting to date.

The only similarity that they seem to share, is going through a school system
Not really. The similarities in their lives may be so numerous as to be uncountable. They also may have broken families, or be kids with no father, or kids who all eat at McDonalds, or wear the same fabrics, or are exposed to the same toxins, or have abuse history, or listen to the same music, or read the same books.... maybe the school system IS specifically responsible for producing them, maybe not... but there are lots of other items to sift through as well.


----------



## bigwheel

StratMaster said:


> Hah! We had a "Trash 80" (TRS80 from Radio Shack) and a Commodore 64... as well as one of these:
> 
> View attachment 95209
> 
> 
> At the cutting edge baby!


We started with a Tandy Color comupter in around 85 or so. Two floppy drives and a joke. Cost around 500 bucks...which was the same price as the Donkey Kong game. It was a spiff from selling insurance. The Donkey Kong game was the prize and I talked the boss guy into the computer instead.


----------



## Kauboy

StratMaster said:


> @MisterMills357
> It is worse no than it was in the 1970's, we have people in America, who don't have a conscious. They will kill as readily as a Taliban tribesman will. And that is new in America.
> The only similarity that they seem to share, is going through a school system, where atheism is the god. And they have had their conscious burned out by foolish doctrines and hard drugs.
> 
> You can make that argument, and it MAY WELL be worse now, but I say there was ALWAYS people like this around. Remember, in the 70's we didn't have the internet. I could list people in the '70's with no conscience ALL DAY: should we start with Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy? Charles Manson?
> 1949, Camden, N.J. 13 killed. Howard Unruh, a World War II veteran, walks the streets of Camden killing random people.
> •1966, Austin. 18 killed. Charles Whitman fires from a tower on the University of Texas campus.
> •1982, Wilkes-Barre, Pa. 13 killed. George Banks kills five of his children and 8 other people.
> •1984, San Ysidro, Calif. 21 killed. James Huberty enters a McDonald's and begins shooting.
> •1986, Edmond, Okla. 14 killed. Postal worker Patrick Sherrill kills 14 people at his workplace.
> •1990, Jacksonville, Fla. 10 killed. James Pough kills 8 people after his car is repossessed. He'd killed two others earlier.
> •1991, Killeen, Tex. 23 killed. George Hennard drives his truck into a cafeteria and then opens fire.
> •1999, Littleton, Colo. 13 killed. The shooting at Columbine High School is the deadliest high school shooting to date.
> 
> The only similarity that they seem to share, is going through a school system
> Not really. The similarities in their lives may be so numerous as to be uncountable. They also may have broken families, or be kids with no father, or kids who all eat at McDonalds, or wear the same fabrics, or are exposed to the same toxins, or have abuse history, or listen to the same music, or read the same books.... maybe the school system IS specifically responsible for producing them, maybe not... but there are lots of other items to sift through as well.


Sure enough, crazy has always exists, and long before today's prescription drugs.
•1927, Bath Township, Michigan 44 killed 58 wounded. Andrew Kehoe killed his wife, firebombed their home, detonated explosives at an elementary school killing 38 children plus staff. Reason? Lost an election and financial stress.

Trying to make sense of it, or place blame on any number of things, is futile. Evil is evil, human minds are fragile, broken humans commit evil acts.


----------



## MisterMills357

StratMaster said:


> @*MisterMills357*
> It is worse no than it was in the 1970's, we have people in America, who don't have a conscious. They will kill as readily as a Taliban tribesman will. And that is new in America.
> The only similarity that they seem to share, is going through a school system, where atheism is the god. And they have had their conscious burned out by foolish doctrines and hard drugs.
> 
> You can make that argument, and it MAY WELL be worse now, but I say there was ALWAYS people like this around. Remember, in the 70's we didn't have the internet. I could list people in the '70's with no conscience ALL DAY: should we start with Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy? Charles Manson?
> 1949, Camden, N.J. 13 killed. Howard Unruh, a World War II veteran, walks the streets of Camden killing random people.
> •1966, Austin. 18 killed. Charles Whitman fires from a tower on the University of Texas campus.
> •1982, Wilkes-Barre, Pa. 13 killed. George Banks kills five of his children and 8 other people.
> •1984, San Ysidro, Calif. 21 killed. James Huberty enters a McDonald's and begins shooting.
> •1986, Edmond, Okla. 14 killed. Postal worker Patrick Sherrill kills 14 people at his workplace.
> •1990, Jacksonville, Fla. 10 killed. James Pough kills 8 people after his car is repossessed. He'd killed two others earlier.
> •1991, Killeen, Tex. 23 killed. George Hennard drives his truck into a cafeteria and then opens fire.
> •1999, Littleton, Colo. 13 killed. The shooting at Columbine High School is the deadliest high school shooting to date.
> 
> The only similarity that they seem to share, is going through a school system
> Not really. The similarities in their lives may be so numerous as to be uncountable. They also may have broken families, or be kids with no father, or kids who all eat at McDonalds, or wear the same fabrics, or are exposed to the same toxins, or have abuse history, or listen to the same music, or read the same books.... maybe the school system IS specifically responsible for producing them, maybe not... but there are lots of other items to sift through as well.


You are kidding yourself, there is a mass killing about every month now, and look at your examples, they go back to the 1980's and beyond. Do me a favor and put together a list that starts from the year 2000 until now, and give me a body count. That count will exceed your current list, and I project that there will be at least 6 other mass killings in 2019. This is new.

And one more commonality, is that the killers were never churched or taught the 10 commandments. They were raised a Pagans and Atheists, all I need to do is look at what they did, to determine that.


----------



## MisterMills357

Kauboy said:


> Sure enough, crazy has always exists, and long before today's prescription drugs.
> •1927, Bath Township, Michigan 44 killed 58 wounded. Andrew Kehoe killed his wife, firebombed their home, detonated explosives at an elementary school killing 38 children plus staff. Reason? Lost an election and financial stress.
> 
> Trying to make sense of it, or place blame on any number of things, is futile. Evil is evil, human minds are fragile, broken humans commit evil acts.


Give me a body count of the mass killings since 2000 AD, how many dead are there? These killings are a new thing, because there are so many.


----------



## MisterMills357

The Resister said:


> Samson took the jawbone of an ass and killed a thousand men
> 
> God saved all the Israelites simply because Phineas took a javelin and killed an Israelite that had relations with a non-Israelite in violation of God's command.
> 
> There is a time and a place of everything.


True. And David had killed so many men, and led the nation in wars, that he had too much blood on his hands. God would not let him be the one to erect the Temple, and He gave that job to Solomon.



rice paddy daddy said:


> Jacksonville has long been the "Murder Capitol Of Florida".
> Except for the odd jealousy killing, the rest of the murders are armed robberies, drug deals gone bad, and rival gangs doing retaliation killings.


Well, shut my mouf, I would have figured that would be Miami, with Tampa coming in as #2.


----------



## StratMaster

MisterMills357 said:


> You are kidding yourself, there is a mass killing about every month now, and look at your examples, they go back to the 1980's and beyond. Do me a favor and put together a list that starts from the year 2000 until now, and give me a body count. That count will exceed your current list, and I project that there will be at least 6 other mass killings in 2019. This is new.
> 
> And one more commonality, is that the killers were never churched or taught the 10 commandments. They were raised a Pagans and Atheists, all I need to do is look at what they did, to determine that.


I didn't SAY it wasn't worse, I said it was always around. If you don't think so after reading my list (which I could lengthen considerably) then YOU are kidding yourself. Always been people around like that. Always. They also, as I said, have more commonalities than can be counted. You are certainly free to pick your favorite hobbyhorse and ride it around, but it doesn't demonstrate causality, or remove the obvious fact that we could assemble a list of ONLY evil people who WERE taught the Ten Commandments: we can start with every parish priest who molested children before we even move into murder and assorted mayhem.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

MisterMills357 said:


> Well, shut my mouf, I would have figured that would be Miami, with Tampa coming in as #2.


Miami was in the 1980's, a combination of Castro emptying his prisons during the Mariel Boat Lift, and the Cocaine Cowboys drug wars.
They have pretty much killed each other off.

West Palm Beach (we USED to live down in that general area) solved their ghetto crime/drug/gang problem by bull dozing a large swath near downtown and calling it "revitalization."

A good over view of Jacksonville gangs here https://www.news4jax.com/news/gangs-in-jacksonville Worth watching, every big city has this problem, the size depends on the ratio of uneducated black males age 13 to 26.
Notice they do not fit Resister's profile of mass shooters.


----------



## Kauboy

MisterMills357 said:


> Give me a body count of the mass killings since 2000 AD, how many dead are there? These killings are a new thing, because there are so many.


No, they are not a new thing. Not by a long shot.

This link contains the list you seek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_United_States
It also contains enough additional evidence to reveal that there is nothing spectacular about the time range you specified.
Go ahead and sort the list by date. Then just count the killings.
I did it for you for a sample.
Between 2000 and 2018 (18 years) (excluding 9/11) there were 347 deaths from these incidents. (excluding the gunmen)
Between 1912 and 1929 (17 years) there were 355 deaths from these incidents. (and I was generous by using a median figure for the incidents with ranges that would have blown this way higher)

Facts don't lie. This isn't new.


----------



## The Resister

MisterMills357 said:


> You are kidding yourself, there is a mass killing about every month now, and look at your examples, they go back to the 1980's and beyond. Do me a favor and put together a list that starts from the year 2000 until now, and give me a body count. That count will exceed your current list, and I project that there will be at least 6 other mass killings in 2019. This is new.
> 
> And one more commonality, is that the killers were never churched or taught the 10 commandments. They were raised a Pagans and Atheists, all I need to do is look at what they did, to determine that.


There is a degree of dishonesty, aimed at me, and attempted to disprove my findings that started in my younger years in 1989. It is a FACT that the farther we've gone from being a Christian nation, the worse all kinds of crimes have gotten:

https://shop.wallbuilders.com/americas-godly-heritage-dvd

There has been a history of mass shootings in America, but the frequency has risen the further our culture has gone from God and the foundational principles upon which this nation was founded. The more you stress the* Christian principles* upon which this nation was founded, the more resistance you get from the left AND mainstream America. Bear in mind I receive a lot of flak for exposing the correlation between drugs and mass shootings because we live in a drug culture and most of the resistance comes from those who rely on drugs.

There are 16 identifiable traits and once a child goes over 8 of those, there is a near 100 percent chance they will commit a violent act within their lifetimes. The problem with statistics and the discussion boards is that it takes many pages of writing to explain variables and do both a quantitative and qualitative analysis of the subject. Most people would not be interested.

There is *definite link* between SSRIs and mass shootings. There is a strong link between our rejection of Godly principles and violent crime. I agree with what you're saying. Parents that reject Godly approaches vie for human solutions and begin replacing faith with feel good drugs. Then it becomes looking at *all* the traits of mass shooters before we can understand the over-all formula.

But, as an example: If a child came from a dysfunctional home, does not attend church, is white, a loner, is obsessed with violence (blood, guts, and gore), an only child, has harmed or killed small animals, has no father figure and has done SSRIs, he will, at some point, commit a violent act against another human being.

What I've tried to do is attach drug reform and violence preventative measures to all gun control bills. The bills will not pass. What they will do is prevent gun control from being passed because it requires Congress to have the same debate we've had on this thread. That being the case, I'd love to participate. I have a file over 900 pages long that I've amassed on the issue.


----------



## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> There is a degree of dishonesty, aimed at me, and attempted to disprove my findings that started in my younger years in 1989. It is a FACT that the farther we've gone from being a Christian nation, the worse all kinds of crimes have gotten:
> 
> https://shop.wallbuilders.com/americas-godly-heritage-dvd
> 
> There has been a history of mass shootings in America, but the frequency has risen the further our culture has gone from God and the foundational principles upon which this nation was founded. The more you stress the* Christian principles* upon which this nation was founded, the more resistance you get from the left AND mainstream America. Bear in mind I receive a lot of flak for exposing the correlation between drugs and mass shootings because we live in a drug culture and most of the resistance comes from those who rely on drugs.
> 
> There are 16 identifiable traits and once a child goes over 8 of those, there is a near 100 percent chance they will commit a violent act within their lifetimes. The problem with statistics and the discussion boards is that it takes many pages of writing to explain variables and do both a quantitative and qualitative analysis of the subject. Most people would not be interested.
> 
> There is *definite link* between SSRIs and mass shootings. There is a strong link between our rejection of Godly principles and violent crime. I agree with what you're saying. Parents that reject Godly approaches vie for human solutions and begin replacing faith with feel good drugs. Then it becomes looking at *all* the traits of mass shooters before we can understand the over-all formula.
> 
> But, as an example: If a child came from a dysfunctional home, does not attend church, is white, a loner, is obsessed with violence (blood, guts, and gore), an only child, has harmed or killed small animals, has no father figure and has done SSRIs, he will, at some point, commit a violent act against another human being.
> 
> What I've tried to do is attach drug reform and violence preventative measures to all gun control bills. The bills will not pass. What they will do is prevent gun control from being passed because it requires Congress to have the same debate we've had on this thread. That being the case, I'd love to participate. I have a file over 900 pages long that I've amassed on the issue.


Here we go again. I find bad science, assumptions, and assertions made without justification or substantiation to be extremely detrimental to any discussion which may lead us towards the truth of a thing... rather than away from it, or towards either propping up a personal agenda or feeding a favorite hobbyhorse.
So, despite the FACT that you utilize capital letters when writing "fact", and BOTH capital letters and BOLD PRINT for *"DEFINITE LINK" * I am going to make the very same dissenting arguments. Try and not take it personally this time.
"There is a degree of dishonesty, aimed at me, and attempted to disprove my findings that started in my younger years in 1989."
Yes, it's all about YOU... since 1989 apparently. Good grief.
There has been a history of mass shootings in America, but the frequency has risen the further our culture has gone from God and the foundational principles upon which this nation was founded. 
Extensive lists demonstrating to the contrary have been posted in this thread. Bad actors have ALWAYS been around, are around now, and will ALWAYS be around... DESPITE the *FACT* of your asserted Christian nation. Lots of those bad actors have come from WITHIN the church in the form of child molesters. If you believe your own Bible, bad people have always been with us.
Bear in mind I receive a lot of flak for exposing the correlation between drugs and mass shootings because we live in a drug culture and most of the resistance comes from those who rely on drugs.
Bear in mind this is not how your dissenters see it at all. In their view, you receive a lot of "flak" for failing to demonstrate your position... i.e CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION. I don't rely on drugs (unless you count my high cholesterol meds) and yet I resist your unsubstantiated assertions. Bear in mind, by saying these things, this too seems to make it all about YOU.
View attachment 95323

There are 16 identifiable traits and once a child goes over 8 of those, there is a near 100 percent chance they will commit a violent act within their lifetimes. The problem with statistics and the discussion boards is that it takes many pages of writing to explain variables and do both a quantitative and qualitative analysis of the subject. Most people would not be interested.
The problem with THESE statistics: you have absolutely NO methodology by which you can quantify the number of people who have ALL of these 16 traits but never commit a crime. if they don't get arrested or make the news, they are invisible to your accounting: there could conceivably be ten times the amount flying under the radar because they don't commit mass shootings. No way to know. Which gives you no way to quantify probabilities related to these 16 traits. Again, correlation does not equal causality. 
There is a strong link between our rejection of Godly principles and violent crime.
Always been violent crime. Christianity or no Christianity. Pagan or atheist. That dark stripe runs through our center. Trying to make sense of it, or to tie it somehow to religiosity, is like counting angels dancing on the head of a pin.
Parents that reject Godly approaches vie for human solutions and begin replacing faith with feel good drugs.
It's not either/or. People don't either have faith or take drugs. 
But, as an example: If a child came from a dysfunctional home, does not attend church, is white, a loner, is obsessed with violence (blood, guts, and gore), an only child, has harmed or killed small animals, has no father figure and has done SSRIs, he will, at some point, commit a violent act against another human being. 
Many of these are the red flags for sociopathic or even psychopathic personalities... and history demonstrates that no drugs are required for their eventual acts of violence.


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## The Resister

StratMaster said:


> Here we go again. I find bad science, assumptions, and assertions made without justification or substantiation to be extremely detrimental to any discussion which may lead us towards the truth of a thing... rather than away from it, or towards either propping up a personal agenda or feeding a favorite hobbyhorse.
> So, despite the FACT that you utilize capital letters when writing "fact", and BOTH capital letters and BOLD PRINT for *"DEFINITE LINK" * I am going to make the very same dissenting arguments. Try and not take it personally this time.
> "There is a degree of dishonesty, aimed at me, and attempted to disprove my findings that started in my younger years in 1989."
> Yes, it's all about YOU... since 1989 apparently. Good grief.
> There has been a history of mass shootings in America, but the frequency has risen the further our culture has gone from God and the foundational principles upon which this nation was founded.
> Extensive lists demonstrating to the contrary have been posted in this thread. Bad actors have ALWAYS been around, are around now, and will ALWAYS be around... DESPITE the *FACT* of your asserted Christian nation. Lots of those bad actors have come from WITHIN the church in the form of child molesters. If you believe your own Bible, bad people have always been with us.
> Bear in mind I receive a lot of flak for exposing the correlation between drugs and mass shootings because we live in a drug culture and most of the resistance comes from those who rely on drugs.
> Bear in mind this is not how your dissenters see it at all. In their view, you receive a lot of "flak" for failing to demonstrate your position... i.e CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION. I don't rely on drugs (unless you count my high cholesterol meds) and yet I resist your unsubstantiated assertions. Bear in mind, by saying these things, this too seems to make it all about YOU.
> View attachment 95323
> 
> There are 16 identifiable traits and once a child goes over 8 of those, there is a near 100 percent chance they will commit a violent act within their lifetimes. The problem with statistics and the discussion boards is that it takes many pages of writing to explain variables and do both a quantitative and qualitative analysis of the subject. Most people would not be interested.
> The problem with THESE statistics: you have absolutely NO methodology by which you can quantify the number of people who have ALL of these 16 traits but never commit a crime. if they don't get arrested or make the news, they are invisible to your accounting: there could conceivably be ten times the amount flying under the radar because they don't commit mass shootings. No way to know. Which gives you no way to quantify probabilities related to these 16 traits. Again, correlation does not equal causality.
> There is a strong link between our rejection of Godly principles and violent crime.
> Always been violent crime. Christianity or no Christianity. Pagan or atheist. That dark stripe runs through our center. Trying to make sense of it, or to tie it somehow to religiosity, is like counting angels dancing on the head of a pin.
> Parents that reject Godly approaches vie for human solutions and begin replacing faith with feel good drugs.
> It's not either/or. People don't either have faith or take drugs.
> But, as an example: If a child came from a dysfunctional home, does not attend church, is white, a loner, is obsessed with violence (blood, guts, and gore), an only child, has harmed or killed small animals, has no father figure and has done SSRIs, he will, at some point, commit a violent act against another human being.
> Many of these are the red flags for sociopathic or even psychopathic personalities... and history demonstrates that no drugs are required for their eventual acts of violence.


strat, I'm not bothering to address your blathering idiocy. You don't know squat about the subject; you are not working to find a solution; you have *NO FACTS* on your side; you know nothing about my research. You simply got spanked somewhere along the way and want to air dirty laundry and thump your chest. FWIW, I just acknowledged that you posted here, but I didn't bother to read what you said. You do enough for the left with your divisiveness and hopes of winning with a popularity vote that you are Nancy Pelosi's best friend.

The rest of you can note that after decades of using political strategies at the local and state level, Gun Owners of America are employing the same, identical strategies right now. The difference is: I did it before they did. We simply have different bills. You can bitch about the situation or get involved and DO something. Strat hasn't done a damn thing in his life except bleat like the sheep.

If there were not something credible about what I say, strat would move on. But, he realizes that I do have a point and as long as he keeps coming here, so will his clique group. By stirring the pot every time I post, strat is only hurting the cause. If someone has a thread you don't like, move on. Don't let someone like me ruin your day and keep you up at night. The more people that oppose you, the bigger the audience is that pays attention to you. Ask Rush Limbaugh.


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## SGG

Ironic!


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## Kauboy

StratMaster said:


> Here we go again. I find bad science, assumptions, and assertions made without justification or substantiation to be extremely detrimental to any discussion which may lead us towards the truth of a thing... rather than away from it, or towards either propping up a personal agenda or feeding a favorite hobbyhorse.
> So, despite the FACT that you utilize capital letters when writing "fact", and BOTH capital letters and BOLD PRINT for *"DEFINITE LINK" * I am going to make the very same dissenting arguments. Try and not take it personally this time.
> "There is a degree of dishonesty, aimed at me, and attempted to disprove my findings that started in my younger years in 1989."
> Yes, it's all about YOU... since 1989 apparently. Good grief.
> There has been a history of mass shootings in America, but the frequency has risen the further our culture has gone from God and the foundational principles upon which this nation was founded.
> Extensive lists demonstrating to the contrary have been posted in this thread. Bad actors have ALWAYS been around, are around now, and will ALWAYS be around... DESPITE the *FACT* of your asserted Christian nation. Lots of those bad actors have come from WITHIN the church in the form of child molesters. If you believe your own Bible, bad people have always been with us.
> Bear in mind I receive a lot of flak for exposing the correlation between drugs and mass shootings because we live in a drug culture and most of the resistance comes from those who rely on drugs.
> Bear in mind this is not how your dissenters see it at all. In their view, you receive a lot of "flak" for failing to demonstrate your position... i.e CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION. I don't rely on drugs (unless you count my high cholesterol meds) and yet I resist your unsubstantiated assertions. Bear in mind, by saying these things, this too seems to make it all about YOU.
> View attachment 95323
> 
> There are 16 identifiable traits and once a child goes over 8 of those, there is a near 100 percent chance they will commit a violent act within their lifetimes. The problem with statistics and the discussion boards is that it takes many pages of writing to explain variables and do both a quantitative and qualitative analysis of the subject. Most people would not be interested.
> The problem with THESE statistics: you have absolutely NO methodology by which you can quantify the number of people who have ALL of these 16 traits but never commit a crime. if they don't get arrested or make the news, they are invisible to your accounting: there could conceivably be ten times the amount flying under the radar because they don't commit mass shootings. No way to know. Which gives you no way to quantify probabilities related to these 16 traits. Again, correlation does not equal causality.
> There is a strong link between our rejection of Godly principles and violent crime.
> Always been violent crime. Christianity or no Christianity. Pagan or atheist. That dark stripe runs through our center. Trying to make sense of it, or to tie it somehow to religiosity, is like counting angels dancing on the head of a pin.
> Parents that reject Godly approaches vie for human solutions and begin replacing faith with feel good drugs.
> It's not either/or. People don't either have faith or take drugs.
> But, as an example: If a child came from a dysfunctional home, does not attend church, is white, a loner, is obsessed with violence (blood, guts, and gore), an only child, has harmed or killed small animals, has no father figure and has done SSRIs, he will, at some point, commit a violent act against another human being.
> Many of these are the red flags for sociopathic or even psychopathic personalities... and history demonstrates that no drugs are required for their eventual acts of violence.


Sorry brother, but you're wasting your words. You could craft the most beautiful argument of your life, and it would still be ignored because *you* thought of it.
He is not interested in rebuttals. He comes here to push his opinion, and he's free to do so, but he doesn't cater to, nor truly invite, dissent. Once his position has been exposed for being even slightly inaccurate, he walls up and starts handing out personal slights.
He employs the same strategy as our president. Facts don't matter, keep pushing the agenda, make it personal if you have to. Saul Alinsky tactics at their finest.
They are great methods for confusing and rolling over the masses, but they don't work on the more intelligent among us. This is why he is able to claim some success in the past, but can't comprehend why his views are not accepted 100% of the time. Every once in a while he finds himself among those who do not fall for logical fallacies or those who would request proofs of fact, not simply believe what is being said because of a long resume or claims to previous victories.
That's what happens when he comes here, and it doesn't sit well with his ego.
Try not to take his personal attacks too seriously. I had to realize this at one point. It's his defense mechanism. I doubt he honestly wanted to rape my 10 year old daughter, as he stated in a past thread, but he then clarified by saying he would threaten anyone and everything if he had to in order to get his point across. It's like a tantrum. Adults learn to ignore the tantrum, and eventually the child understands that doesn't work, and tries to get along another way.
Maybe it will work, and maybe it won't, but I ignored him after that exchange.


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## Denton

I find merit in both sides argument but there are two problems. One problem is the rehash. The other problem is the personal attacks.

Here's my position, not that I assume anyone cares. SSRIs can cause problems. I know this and so do the manufacturers. So do people I know who have been prescribed these drugs only to find that the drugs messed with them. Now, what about the string of killing commited by kids who were on SSRIs? Did they commit those murders because the drugs messed with their heads or would they have commited those crimes, anyway? I don't know. What I do know is what the manufacturers print on the package and what some people who have been precribed SSRIs have told me.

I also know there are people who kill others, and those killers are not taking SSRIs and SSRIs wouldn't help them, anyway. It's been that way since Cain killed Able. These people who kill others might be psychopaths, making all the sermons and all the SSRI wasted on them, they may be evil or it might be something else.

You see why I see merit in both arguments.

By the way, did I sum it up decently?


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## The Resister

Kauboy said:


> Sorry brother, but you're wasting your words. You could craft the most beautiful argument of your life, and it would still be ignored because *you* thought of it.
> He is not interested in rebuttals. He comes here to push his opinion, and he's free to do so, but he doesn't cater to, nor truly invite, dissent. Once his position has been exposed for being even slightly inaccurate, he walls up and starts handing out personal slights.
> He employs the same strategy as our president. Facts don't matter, keep pushing the agenda, make it personal if you have to. Saul Alinsky tactics at their finest.
> They are great methods for confusing and rolling over the masses, but they don't work on the more intelligent among us. This is why he is able to claim some success in the past, but can't comprehend why his views are not accepted 100% of the time. Every once in a while he finds himself among those who do not fall for logical fallacies or those who would request proofs of fact, not simply believe what is being said because of a long resume or claims to previous victories.
> That's what happens when he comes here, and it doesn't sit well with his ego.
> Try not to take his personal attacks too seriously. I had to realize this at one point. It's his defense mechanism. I doubt he honestly wanted to rape my 10 year old daughter, as he stated in a past thread, but he then clarified by saying he would threaten anyone and everything if he had to in order to get his point across. It's like a tantrum. Adults learn to ignore the tantrum, and eventually the child understands that doesn't work, and tries to get along another way.
> Maybe it will work, and maybe it won't, but I ignored him after that exchange.


That post fit Stratmaster perfectly.

Feel welcome to post something relative to the OP or go to Hell. Either way, it doesn't matter. But, little man, we are NOT going to rehash the same old personal attacks. The only thing you'll ever do is peck your keyboard - and it will not change America.


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## The Tourist

*@The Resister*, a few of us went to bat for you, hoping you wouldn't post something to get you The Golden Ticket of all forum bans.

This is a forum, not an alley brawl. Is there someway we could find a better way to impart a rebuttal?


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> I find merit in both sides argument but there are two problems. One problem is the rehash. The other problem is the personal attacks.
> 
> Here's my position, not that I assume anyone cares. SSRIs can cause problems. I know this and so do the manufacturers. So do people I know who have been prescribed these drugs only to find that the drugs messed with them. Now, what about the string of killing commited by kids who were on SSRIs? Did they commit those murders because the drugs messed with their heads or would they have commited those crimes, anyway? I don't know. What I do know is what the manufacturers print on the package and what some people who have been precribed SSRIs have told me.
> 
> I also know there are people who kill others, and those killers are not taking SSRIs and SSRIs wouldn't help them, anyway. It's been that way since Cain killed Able. These people who kill others might be psychopaths, making all the sermons and all the SSRI wasted on them, they may be evil or it might be something else.
> 
> You see why I see merit in both arguments.
> 
> By the way, did I sum it up decently?


I really liked the way you summed it up. FWIW, I never said the SSRIs were the cause of anything. What we do know is there are corollaries to violence. Muslims hold in their religion that they are to kill you or convert you. That doesn't mean that all Muslims will kill you no more than smoking cigarettes will kill you. But Muslims still kill out of religion and smoking cigarettes cause cancer (though not everybody will die from it.)

With SSRIs, all I've advocated are two things:

1) When it comes to those under 18, SSRIs should only be prescribed as a last option. Counseling and non-drug therapies might prove to be more effective

2) When it comes to those under 18, when they do get into trouble and it appears to be repeatedly, you have a *civil intervention* in order to get to the root cause of their problems.

Other than that, I'm not reading the personal attacks any longer. If the first three sentences of a post are about me and it's a personal attack, I'm moving on. Nobody here is worth my time if all they have is anger, resentment, jealousy, or whatever in the Hell it is that makes them think others (however many posters are on this board) care to read that kind of claptrap. PM exists for a reason. NOTHING I said deserved the personal attacks by Kauboy and Stratmaster when I responded to that other guy.

Here is what you need to know:

I do a lot of research. My state legislators call upon me to speak out when they open the discussions for public comment. My state legislators know me and that I'm working toward solutions, not trying to engage in personality contests. WHEN the detractors can make the same comment just offered, they might have something that will benefit you. Other than that, you do your best, shake the dust off your shoes and move forward.


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## The Tourist

I hope you do use the benefit of PM. I wish you good luck. I like your response.


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## The Resister

The Tourist said:


> *@Chipper*, in my town they Credit Union still allows CCW--and I asked a teller to confirm that. We can CCW here, but not open carry, not as a violation but probably due to decorum.
> 
> *@The Resister*, usually I don't read your stuff. More correctly, I cannot, I put you on ignore. I got the gist after Denton posted.
> 
> Clearly, you goofed again. According to your theorem, most of the Chicago blacks must be on SSRI meds. Per capita, they kill more of each other than patients on meds _*kill anybody*_.
> 
> There are drug reactions with any med, which is why I'm researching CBD oil for anxiety. And guess who told me about it? My psychiatrist has her sons on it. She said that no matter how her oldest boy gets out of bed (he's a tweener and moody) a couple of drops of this oil under his tongue has him leveled out in minutes. Are there hippie burn-outs who abused cannabis? Well, of course, and they're just as dangerous with an automobile as a firearm. So should the state of Wisconsin arrest any alumni who owns a Ken Kesey paperback?
> 
> BTW, have you ever read a book?


What do you call it when people don't tell the truth? If I were on your ignore, you wouldn't be here. Also:

"_He who answereth matter before he heareth it, it is a shame and a folly unto him_" Proverbs 18: 13

You made a wrong assumption about me... AND if you had me on ignore, you could not be able to read this response:

I have one of the most extensive personal libraries in this state and usually read somewhere between 3 to 5 books per month. Books are still secondary to hands on experience. There is a place near to where I live. Anyone can attend the meetings, but it is a rehab center where people discuss their addictions (everything from sex to drugs to eating) much like an AA meeting. I've been sitting in and learning for many months at this juncture. Helped a couple of people that genuinely wanted to change their situation as well.


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## StratMaster

The Resister said:


> strat, I'm not bothering to address your blathering idiocy. You don't know squat about the subject; you are not working to find a solution; you have *NO FACTS* on your side; you know nothing about my research. You simply got spanked somewhere along the way and want to air dirty laundry and thump your chest. FWIW, I just acknowledged that you posted here, but I didn't bother to read what you said. You do enough for the left with your divisiveness and hopes of winning with a popularity vote that you are Nancy Pelosi's best friend.
> 
> Strat hasn't done a damn thing in his life except bleat like the sheep.
> 
> What was it you said about personal attacks in the first few sentences? Because even though I made a point by point dissenting argument... easy for anyone to follow and respond to... it is YOU who seems not to have no answer to those points and prefer personal attacks.


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## Denton

I’m seeing this to be fruitless, at this juncture.


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## rice paddy daddy

Denton said:


> I'm seeing this to be fruitless, at this juncture.


Actually I can't quote a long post and respond on my phone, but as a recovering alcoholic and dedicated member of AA I find it comical that someone with no personal experience using either drugs or alcohol can "help" someone who wants to quit either one.

This is why AA works so well when other modalities fail. No one can can help another alcoholic like an alcoholic.


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