# As the "Prosperity" Tide Recedes, the Ugly Reality of Wealth Inequality Is Exposed



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

*As the "Prosperity" Tide Recedes, the Ugly Reality of Wealth Inequality Is Exposed*

I like Charles Hugh Smith:

"...when the tide of "prosperity" (i.e. the fake prosperity of financialization and phony statistics) recedes, the ugly realities of massive wealth/income inequality are exposed for all to see."

"The question for the chattering classes is this: will the bread and circuses of sports, random shootings, Trump and the rest of the churn in the media arena be enough to distract those stuck in leaky rowboats from the political fund-raising parties on the grandiose yachts?"

oftwominds-Charles Hugh Smith: As the "Prosperity" Tide Recedes, the Ugly Reality of Wealth Inequality Is Exposed


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Ehhh there are few things that stand in the way of a person "making it big" two of them are imagination and drive, the third being opportunity. If you have the first two the third one is not that far away. If you are lacking the first two and have the third one you will not succeed anyway.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I do not buy into the whole "wealth inequality" argument. It is left wing, liberal, progressive propaganda.
Everyone in this country has equal opportunity to achieve.
I enrolled in college, majored in beer and girls, and consequently flunked out. Is that the "systems" fault? Someone else's fault? NO, it was MY fault.
I enlisted in the Army and volunteered for Vietnam instead of getting a white collar job. Is that the system's fault?
I have been a laborer, a truck driver, a forklift operator. Was The Man holding me down? Oh, wait! I'm a manager now, I guess I'm The Man.:joyous:


The Wealth Inequality BS is going to be shoved down America's throat, just like the chants of Racism. And by the very same people who embrace communist ideology.:stick:

Sorry, Sidekhar, you just touched a nerve with me. It is nothing personal.:77:


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I do not buy into the whole "wealth inequality" argument. It is left wing, liberal, progressive propaganda.
> Everyone in this country has equal opportunity to achieve.
> I enrolled in college, majored in beer and girls, and consequently flunked out. Is that the "systems" fault? Someone else's fault? NO, it was MY fault...I have been a laborer, a truck driver, a forklift operator. Was The Man holding me down? Oh, wait! I'm a manager now, I guess I'm The Man.:joyous:
> 
> ...


I understand what you're saying, my background is similar to your own. And I do believe the capitalist system has proven itself to be superior to all other economic systems yet devised.

But the pure form of capatilism that once existed here in the US has been perverted. Fewer and fewer people are able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they can only get a part time job, when their meager earnings are onerously taxed (many of them hidden), and the table is tilted by lobyists to prevent new businesses forming to compete with the multi national corporations. There is real state-sponsored wealth inequality when a company like Exxon, and many others, with multi-billion dollar profits get tax refunds from corrupted IRS rules.

Yes, the socialists will use wealth inequality for their own purposes, but that doesn't change the fact of its existence.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I stand with RPD, and that puts me in good company.

"Wealth inequality" is the latest fashion trend to describe, and disguise, what I like to call "outcome inequality".

Let me explain...
You and I are NOT equal. You may be taller. I may be stronger. You may be smarter. I may be more charming.
We are all unique little snowflakes.
If you can see the world for what it is, instead of what you want it to be, this entire concept is quite easy to recognize and understand.
However, if you can only see the world as an unfair place where another's advantages are not uniformly shared, and thus rewards are not shared either, then you develop a bitter outlook on society. You start to categorize and divide people based on their advantages and disadvantages, and make demands about "fairness".
You don't want to accept that because I'm stronger, I can do better at a task that requires strength. You don't want to accept that because I am more adept at solving complicated equations, that I will do better in engineering roles. You don't want to accept that because I have a stronger internal determination, that I will outlast and surpass you.
There is a cold and hard truth that will NEVER change for the human race. Are you ready for it?
*"We are all different. We are not equal. We cannot all perform the same. Therefore, equal outcome is impossible."*

You can have every opportunity extended to you, or none at all, and it won't change the above truth.

To believe that wealth inequality is a problem, we have to reject this truth. We have to wrongly accept that everyone should get the same reward, even though they literally cannot do the same work. We have to pass students who can't read. We have to hire employees who can't count change. We have to compromise, and accept the dull and unmotivated along with the best and the brightest, and pay them the same.

To any objective observer, this would be insane.
If allowed to continue, it will kill any economy and civilization along with it.


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

I think we are right in the middle of the "sea change" on this issue.

1. Yes, you can today open your eyes and become great.

2. No, you are being held back by the "system"

Both are very real issues and both are in play. But you have to "subscribe" to one of them in order for them to apply to you. We get into problems of "system" when we teach in our schools the liberal way. When people get on entitlement programs because everybody can get on them fresh out of highschool, but nobody can get off of them as easily. 

This is one of the things I don't know how to prepare for... the coming collapse of society for no other reason then "brainwashing".


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I understand what you're saying, my background is similar to your own. And I do believe the capitalist system has proven itself to be superior to all other economic systems yet devised.
> 
> But the pure form of capatilism that once existed here in the US has been perverted. Fewer and fewer people are able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they can only get a part time job, when their meager earnings are onerously taxed (many of them hidden), and the table is tilted by lobyists to prevent new businesses forming to compete with the multi national corporations. There is real state-sponsored wealth inequality when a company like Exxon, and many others, with multi-billion dollar profits get tax rebates from corrupted IRS rules.
> 
> Yes, the socialists will use wealth inequality for their own purposes, but that doesn't change the fact of its existence.


How does Exxon getting a tax rebate affect the individual?
I fail to see the correlation between a multi-billion dollar company's wealth, and an individual's wealth.
Are we talking about corporations or individuals?

"Wealth inequality" is the description given to explain the obvious gap between one arbitrary income range and another.
Again, those who cannot accept that humans are not equal choose to categorize and divide people in order to promote agendas.
Don't fall into the trap.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Kauboy, you asked: “How does Exxon getting a tax rebate affect the individual?”

I’m no economist, but I can see a few ways. Executive compensation such as performance clauses are based on the profits of the company. Bigger profits yield bigger bonuses to the managers, less dividends to the stockholders, and more concentration of wealth. 

Where is the money coming from to pay tax refunds to the exxons? From your taxes and from closing more and more tax ‘loopholes’ to the little guy; and, since the government is broke, from printing more of it through bond issues, which causes inflation (i.e. legalized stealing) and reduces its value to the saver. 

Kauboy, you have a powerful and convincing argument: "We are all different. We are not equal. We cannot all perform the same. Therefore, equal outcome is impossible." 

It's a difficult subject. There has always been wealth inequality, look at Rockefeller, even Washington and Jefferson were wealthy compared to the populace. If you're smarter and bolder than others, you should get wealthy.

But executives in the past got compensated perhaps 100 times more than their employees, today it's thousands of times more.

I'm not taking the communist line here, just trying to see both sides. I know some very smart, energetic young people who are NOT getting ahead today, through no fault of their own.


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

One thing that nobody seems to bring up when talking about this is: Some people don't want to "succeed" the way that others do.

Some are very happy to go to their 9-5, come home, watch football and wait for retirement. 

And there is NOTHING wrong with that.

So when you see the 'wealth divide'... ALL of it is by a choice. Either:

1. The choice to be content with where you are.

2. The choice to earn as much money as possible.

3. The choice to struggle through life making all the wrong decisions.

4. The choice to take some handout from some stranger and believe it to be in your best interests.

We need, as a nation, to be ok with "poor" people. They don't have to be poor, but it is ultimately their choice and no handout will ever solve that problem. A handout only cures a symptom. "I'm hungry" go to the soup kitchen. You'll still be hungry tomorrow. Maybe the soup kitchen will always be there... but that same person could choose to go work at a farm and eat for labor.

We don't need to force a specific quality of life on others. They are perfectly capable of doing it on their own.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Wealth inequality. As RPD said, that grates on my nerves. However, the regulations are stacked against start-ups and competition against the global corporations. After all, the large corporations are the ones who buy politicians and bureaucrats in order to insure their profit is protected.

It even goes to the point of information inequality. Us silly little peons are deemed unworthy of knowing origin of food or what products contain GMOs.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The opportunity does exist for those who have the drive to get ahead.
You need a plan, set goals, and time tables, plus balls!
I came from a relatively poor family, two brothers, one became a medical doctor, the other a drunk and dead at 57
Doctor one was smart enough to get scholarships and fellowships for his education, went to one of the top private high schools in the country.
I started out as a toolmaker from trade high, while working, went to night school for BA and ME. 
I sold my house and airplane for the money to start a business when the time was right.
I scratched the first year, but owned everything so I did not worry about any repo.
lucked out, got a ton of work building the tooling and gages for the MK-19 40MM grenade launcher.
Had to hire three toolmakers to keep up.
Then came the contracts for Browning 50HBM2 parts and tooling, now up to ten employees.
Came out with my own products, had plenty of military contracts for them,
At this point the company was a multi million dollar business, I know if I gave the name 70% of you would know it.
Never during this time did I just sit in an office, was right on the floor building tooling or writing cad cam programs.
It all came to an abrupt halt with a nasty divorce, I just laid off everyone and closed the doors.
Still have the shop and have just been doing gunsmithing work to keep busy and mobile.
I TOOK THE RISK AND IT WENT WELL. 
One thing you will find, you will work twice as hard and twice as long when on your own,
I worked from 12-16 hours a day to get product out the door.
If you are worried about having a steady income and are afraid to stick your neck out you will never get anywhere.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

There is truth in all these positions. You need drive, ambition and an ability to think outside the box to succeed. We are no longer a manufacturing society so good paying jobs for those with limited education are harder but not impossible to come by. Due to a crazy tax code and zealous regulation, it has been killed. Same with work ethic...why work hard if your needs are met with little or no effort as long as you empower government? The problems are cultural and spiritually rooted. I have seen many turn down good pay because they had another month or so of unemployment left.


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> It even goes to the point of information inequality. Us silly little peons are deemed unworthy of knowing origin of food or what products contain GMOs.


This is one of those things... You can choose to take the gov't's word for it... you can choose to go to the grocery store... or you can find a local farmer and get real food that you can trust.

I raise poultry, pork and lamb. I can either sell it to you government style, or I can sell you real product. My chickens & turkeys are raised on pasture, the are fed organic or transitional feed from farmers I trust and you are welcome to come take a look any day of the week to verify my truths.

If you buy properly, you can even get a deal. My pigs are $4/lb hanging weight, so if you buy a whole hog (or find a friend), you can get organic fed pasture raised pork chops at $6/lb... the same price as in the grocery store.  But my pork chops won't be "mushy white meat" and there's no "solution" injected. You just have to look around. Craigslist, Eatwild.com, Localharvest.org, Your local Westin A Price Chapter, the Amish

Choice is hard. It shouldn't have to be so hard, but there it is.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

True, but the point isn't that I can get it (and do) but who owns the government and makes the laws, codes and regulations.


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

We are getting to the point where we will stop following laws.

Its happening in the gun-control debate world.

Anti-Gunner "But think of the poor children"

Pro-Gunner "F-You, I have a 2A"

More and more are getting fed up with our out of control government. I'm happy to see it.

Do you know you don't have to pay the ACA fines for not paying into the ACA?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> Kauboy, you asked: "How does Exxon getting a tax rebate affect the individual?"
> 
> I'm no economist, but I can see a few ways. Executive compensation such as performance clauses are based on the profits of the company. Bigger profits yield bigger bonuses to the managers, less dividends to the stockholders, and more concentration of wealth.
> 
> ...


Exxon doesn't get a rebate from my taxes. They get a rebate from their own.
Just like I don't get a deduction off the backs of anyone else. I get a deduction from what *I* pay in.
The money for their refunds, as well as for mine, come from the one who paid them in.
Only when someone gets back *MORE* than they paid in do we see the problem with the tax system. This happens far more often at an individual level, and not at a corporate level.

Also, the United States leads the world in Corporate Income Tax rate, at 40%.
The government demands 40% of your earnings, just for having your business here.
And we wonder why companies don't seem to have enough money to hire more people, or pay their employees more.
Misinformed people point to executives with their "golden parachutes", and rake them over the coals for being the reason for economic stagnation.
All the while, it's the blood sucking government taking almost HALF of the company's earnings. Forgive me if I applaud them when they fight for tax breaks.

Money to executives is not a valid point in the wealth inequality argument. They argued, demanded, and fought for their own compensation. That's their fair share, as they negotiated it. They have the leverage to negotiate lucrative deals because they took the risks that put them into those positions.
It doesn't matter if the guy on top gets a million dollars a year and I get squat. *HE* negotiated that salary, and I negotiated mine. We both, independently, agreed to work for a certain amount of money.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Thank you all for a very interesting back-and-forth. I'd love to continue, but I have to hit the road. Enjoy this beautiful day.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Many spend their lives working so they can afford material goods.... things.

These things need to be cleaned, put away, fixed, painted, and so on, which demands more of our time. Eventually, you have so much stuff you need a bigger house... more time, more effort. If you become rich, you hire a staff and take on their problems too.... more time.

Eventually, all this stuff breaks, wears out, gets lost or stolen. And we feel bad.

Life is a finite series of seconds... ticks on a clock. If you trade time (life) for stuff that will eventually make you sad, you aren't ahead of the game.

I now earn 1/10 the money I did 15 years ago, and am 10 times happier. I don't live in a cave, I do have some stuff, but have drastically reduced the amount of material goods I own... or that own me.

"Wealth inequality" depends on how one defines wealth. I wake up when I want to wake up, do as I please all day, every day. I have no debt, no credit cards, no cellphone. I consider myself to be richer than Bill Gates, though I have far less money. It's all a matter pf perspective, I guess.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I read somewhere that 25 yrs. or so ago, the CEO made 10 times the worker on the plant floor. I make 50k, the CEO makes millions in salary and perks! But, a raise in pay is not in the budget. We get a 2.5% annual company wide raise, then jack our insurance 3.5%. I did the math, $5200 yearly insurance, $3600 deductible. This comes out to $4.23 an hour just for insurance, right off the top. I thought I was making decent wages.


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

Well said Prepadoodle. That which we think we own actually owns us.

1sckrewsloose: You're lucky your insurance is that cheap. Mine is $14,500/year before I can even use it... so no insurance for me. I can break a lot of bones and still be well under that $14,500. They can have their "Affordable" care.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

If the market and everything else was less regulated there would perhaps be more fat. The formation of the FED, income tax, senators elected rather than appointed and the removal of the gold standard contributes to run away inflation and erosion of states rights. Removal of decision makers from the people leads to corruption and squeezing those who can not finance campaigns or relatives of those in power.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Why do those who have dramatic concerns about "wealth" inequality then equate it to income? 

The University of Santa Cruz (not a right wing entity by ANY means) had a very good study on INCOME equality and inequality. The problem for the UC Santa Cruz is the difference between in income distribution isn't all that different over the last 100 years. In fact since our population has tripled its actually much more diverse then EVER in man kinds history. 

I'm curious why is poor people (academics that teach and can't do (oh and yes I taught) often think they are entitled to successful people's money?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> The opportunity does exist for those who have the drive to get ahead.
> You need a plan, set goals, and time tables, plus balls!
> I came from a relatively poor family, two brothers, one became a medical doctor, the other a drunk.
> Doctor one was smart enough to get scholarships and fellowships for his education, went to one of the top private high schools in the country.
> ...


My story is very similar ^^^ it was a long hard road to being successful. BUT I ENJOYED THE HARD WORK AND ACHIEVING GOALS. Many used to say I was lucky....they never could grasp what took to realize goals. I have told many the "secret" is to get up earlier and stay later. It worked and I was rewarded. I eventually took a hit from reasons mostly beyond my control and subsequently downsized my life and lifestyle. Still, I find great joy in a more modest life with the same WORK ETHIC.


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

Camel923 said:


> There is truth in all these positions. You need drive, ambition and an ability to think outside the box to succeed. We are no longer a manufacturing society so good paying jobs for those with limited education are harder but not impossible to come by. Due to a crazy tax code and zealous regulation, it has been killed. Same with work ethic...why work hard if your needs are met with little or no effort as long as you empower government? The problems are cultural and spiritually rooted. I have seen many turn down good pay because they had another month or so of unemployment left.


The company I currently work for utilizes temporary labor. The temp employees often do not have a high school diploma or GED and therefore cannot meet the minimum criteria for hiring. That's even before we get to the background check or drug screening. They accept the fact and work as temp labor their whole lives because of the choices they made.

I do believe that the average pay rate has not increased proportionally with the VP and CEO type positions. This is where the "wealth disparity" really is.

In my life very little has changed in the pay rate for what is considered middle class or lower, but as was stated before, upper level management has increased by 1000's of percent.

My current company has over doubled it's earnings in the past 7 years, and increased them by a factor of 10 in the past 15 -20. Starting salary for entry level positions has increased on average by less than 15% over the same time frame. This hasn't even kept up with cost of living.

Is a burger flipper worth what my employees make? No, but my employees are worth more than they are getting.


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## Viper (Jun 4, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> The opportunity does exist for those who have the drive to get ahead.
> You need a plan, set goals, and time tables, plus balls!
> I came from a relatively poor family, two brothers, one became a medical doctor, the other a drunk and dead at 57
> Doctor one was smart enough to get scholarships and fellowships for his education, went to one of the top private high schools in the country.
> ...


If I misunderstood a post you made a couple of months ago then it's on me. Did you not say (post) that you were a former 10th Group member. And that you completed SOTIC?.

So my post isn't a total hijack, I have to agree with RPD. You make your success and place in life. It's on you and you alone. The wealth inequality bs is just that. BS brought on by the liberal left in order to sow discord and disillusionment for they're own ends. A convenient "fall guy" for people that need to blame "someone else" for their own shortcomings.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Work hard and save, so a government can take it and buy favor with those who didn't.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Viper said:


> If I misunderstood a post you made a couple of months ago then it's on me. Did you not say (post) that you were a former 10th Group member. And that you completed SOTIC?.
> 
> So my post isn't a total hijack, I have to agree with RPD. You make your success and place in life. It's on you and you alone. The wealth inequality bs is just that. BS brought on by the liberal left in order to sow discord and disillusionment for they're own ends. A convenient "fall guy" for people that need to blame "someone else" for their own shortcomings.


That posting was in reference to my screen name.
You misread, sorry. The name was derived from it. 
I worked with SOTIC on interdiction development and training. 
Was not part of the !0th SFG, Civilian contractor

HERE IS THE POSTING;
.Why do I feel this is a troll post?
I listed four different Types in 308,
never said I "loved" any, they are tools.
If you base your question on my name, had nothing to do with trashfield but with 10th SF SOTIC.

Ok, so you have one built by Glen Nelson, I have some built by Brookfield Precision Tool.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

Capitalism is fantastic for growing a country, not maintaining it. Don't have an answer as to what would. Every nation that has risen to the top falls in ugly ways in the end. All because they keep striving for more. When there is nothing left to take from anywhere else it starts to feed on itself.


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## Viper (Jun 4, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> That posting was in reference to my screen name.
> You misread, sorry. The name was derived from it.
> I worked with SOTIC on interdiction development and training.
> Was not part of the !0th SFG, Civilian contractor
> ...


Thanks SOCOM42. I went back and reread it also. I appreciate the answer and apologize for the mini hijack. I should have asked via the PM function.


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

TacticalCanuck said:


> Capitalism is fantastic for growing a country, not maintaining it.


Its very hard to say something like that. We don't have a nation that continued on in capitalism. Ours is a great example of "loss of capitalism". We have regulated favorites.

Sure there will be prosperity and decline in a capitalistic society... but things will correct and be better for it. We have a system now where something is dictated from our gov't, it doesn't work, programs are created to prop it up that also don't work and things never 'fail' as we keep throwing more money at them that was stolen from the very victims in the first place.

Think Ag Subsidy or General Motors or AIG. Where would we be without an ag subsidy? We'd have farmers that took the gov't plan to "go big or move on" and it didn't work. They would have sold off the excess land (eventually) and learned another trade besides corn farming. I'd argue in many ways for many reasons that we would be a better nation without the ag subsidy. We really, really don't need net negative biofuels subisdized by the gov't


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

There are some flaws in your thoughts which are opinions but stated as facts, and so here is my opinion.

Executive compensation is in fact taxed. The executive pays the tax as any ordinary income. Yes Exxon avoids its corporate income tax by paying an expense (the executives salary) but the people still prosper on the taxes so in my opinion the distribution of wealth thru modern taxation is more than fair and adequate.

Next I just totally disagree the tax breaks given Exxon or any other corp cost tax payers anything. They are a break, not taxes paid and returned but taxes never paid. This, using your prior point, benefits customers with lower prices, shareholders with more profits, and helps our corps remain competitive in a global Econ.

Finally you suggest the lack of taxes is causing us to go bankrupt. On this I partly agree. However since half of America lives off the government and its entitlements I'd suggest to you we have a far greater spending crisis then taxing one.



sideKahr said:


> Kauboy, you asked: "How does Exxon getting a tax rebate affect the individual?"
> 
> I'm no economist, but I can see a few ways. Executive compensation such as performance clauses are based on the profits of the company. Bigger profits yield bigger bonuses to the managers, less dividends to the stockholders, and more concentration of wealth.
> 
> ...


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