# This is one of the reasons that Code Enforcement Officials Condemn your House



## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

as being Unfit for Human Habitation for having no utility provided electricity.

Most folks aren't smart enough to install a generator without killing someone.

Now everyone is all broken up over the death of 7 children.

Man, 7 children died from carbon monoxide poisoning, relatives say | Fox News


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Sad. People forget you need ventilation. Same dangers with kerosene heaters.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Natural selection at work. To bad about the kids though.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

It's sad that the man was an idiot.

Having said that, I live in the land of "no codes" and wouldn't have it any other way.

Freedom from the codes is one of the reasons I live where I do. If I want to build something, I build it. The only codes on my land are state sanitation laws (i.e. I can't put a septic system within 50 feet of the border of my property, etc) and those I live with because there's no choice...


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Understand S&P, but most of the building codes were put in place to protect the unsuspecting or those that can't protect themselves from folks that don't give two hoots for any human life.

Folks that think putting drugs into their system is more important than making sure their kids have clean water out to be put away for life


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Understand S&P, but most of the building codes were put in place to protect the unsuspecting or those that can't protect themselves from folks that don't give two hoots for any human life.
> 
> Folks that think putting drugs into their system is more important than making sure their kids have clean water out to be put away for life


Sorry, I am an anarchistic leaning Libertarian. It's a hard sell to convince me that limiting my freedom is a good thing just because some other folks are stupid.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Understand, but some of us here aren't too worried about folks freedoms when they go out of their way to put others lives at risk. the supreme court has ruled on many occasions that your freedom to do something - like driving drunk - can be limited if it definitely poses a threat to harm others that's why you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater unless there really is one


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Unfortunately back in ILL we had a couple of cases of generator induced CO poisoning 
though only one person died but a bunch went to the hospital. 
It was back about 8 years ago after a bad storm took down lots of trees and people 
were without power for about 2 weeks. In each case the families had smoke detectors 
but no CO detectors. What a shame.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Understand, but some of us here aren't too worried about folks freedoms when they go out of their way to put others lives at risk. the supreme court has ruled on many occasions that your freedom to do something - like driving drunk - can be limited if it definitely poses a threat to harm others that's why you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater unless there really is one


The supreme court has made many bad decisions over the years, so that's not really an argument that stirs me. I've visited Dred Scott's grave and put a flower on it. Sometimes they get it wrong, sometimes they don't... but just because they say it's right, doesn't make it right.

I am not a total anarchist, and I do see some point in some codes. I have no problem with commercial building codes to protect the public in places open to the public, things like making sure there are plenty of exits, that the exits are marked, that there is emergency lighting, fire suppression systems where appropriate, etc.

My private home? Not so much.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

SARGE7402 said:


> Understand S&P, but most of the building codes were put in place to protect the unsuspecting or those that can't protect themselves from folks that don't give two hoots for any human life.
> 
> Folks that think putting drugs into their system is more important than making sure their kids have clean water out to be put away for life


there is no protecting yourself anymore .... not the Wild West or family clan feud - you can't shoot your neighbor for damming the water or putting up a wire fence - that's why there's laws to prevent or sort out the problems ....

if it's not something like this with a generator - it's candles/oil lamps starting fires .....


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Illi

My reference to those that can't protect themselves usually refers to children under 5 or folks with dementia.

And I place part of the blame for this happening on this lads family that stood by and let him put these children's lives at risk. Hope they have a conscience that will bother them til the day they die


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

It's just so sad when something like this happens to children.


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## 2Tim215 (Jun 19, 2014)

I'm sorry but this just doesn't sit right. A utility worker at a University doesn't know about carbon monoxide poisoning? A man who supposedly loved his children and spoke to his father everyday? Struggling to pay bills and survive.? Got a generator to keep his children warm because they cut his power? Sounds more like a man who lost all hope for the future and decided the best option for them all would be to permanently fall asleep. Even good people do things like this when they have lost all hope. Just a thought.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Understand S&P, but most of the building codes were put in place to protect the unsuspecting or those that can't protect themselves from folks that don't give two hoots for any human life.


Actually building codes are to protect the person you sell to, they don't really care if you kill yourself.

*Rancher*


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

azrancher said:


> Actually building codes are to protect the person you sell to, they don't really care if you kill yourself.
> 
> *Rancher*


Much of the times, building codes are there to enforce their will upon you. They are also often used to protect "approved' construction methods and discourage alternate materials and building methods that are perfectly safe but "not to code".

This is WAY off topic so I wills top here, but I will post a link that shows in detail what I am talking about and why I don't want to live where there are codes.

Earthship | Codes and Laws


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

This kind of thing happens all the time in Florida.
(1) Hurricane knocks out power. Homeowner sets up generator, remembers last year when thieves would steal unattended generators, puts generator in garage or on enclosed patio. Carbon monoxide kills everyone inside.
(2) Much more common - cold snap arrives. People w/o central heat set up space heaters. Kerosene ones are the worst. House burns down killing every one inside. This happens all too regularly in NE Florida.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Freedom isn't free of consequences. With freedom comes responsibility. I shouldn't be punished with draconian codes, expensive permits, and ridiculous red tape simply because there are idiots in the world. 

Anything beyond very minimalistic building codes is just one more way for big brother to reach into your lives and into your wallets.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Charles Martel said:


> Freedom isn't free of consequences. With freedom comes responsibility. I shouldn't be punished with draconian codes, expensive permits, and ridiculous red tape simply because there are idiots in the world.
> 
> Anything beyond very minimalistic building codes is just one more way for big brother to reach into your lives and into your wallets.


CM you are partly correct. However, we don't know just how big an idiot someone is until we look at what they are trying to do.

And for the other lad that said the only reason for these codes is to foist the city's will on some one because they dare use an alternative "safe" construction method is just a bunch of horse hockey. I've been working with the various building codes now for going on almost fifty years. Almost without exception every change in the building code is tied to a bunch of dead bodies somewhere. And while I could give one good fiddler's f - - - what happens to any adult, I do care when your idiotic actions put someone else's life at risk.

But CM if you want to build a death trap for your own use, have at it. Just like I told a number of folks that dabbled in the non prescription drugs kill yourself if you want to. Come out on the street or endanger someone elses life and we're going to have a problem.

Don't like the rules society lays down for you to wander amoung them go live somewhere else.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> CM you are partly correct. However, we don't know just how big an idiot someone is until we look at what they are trying to do.
> 
> And for the other lad that said the only reason for these codes is to foist the city's will on some one because they dare use an alternative "safe" construction method is just a bunch of horse hockey. I've been working with the various building codes now for going on almost fifty years. Almost without exception every change in the building code is tied to a bunch of dead bodies somewhere. And while I could give one good fiddler's f - - - what happens to any adult, I do care when your idiotic actions put someone else's life at risk.
> 
> ...


Which is exactly what I am doing, living where there are no codes. You say "And for the other lad that said the only reason for these codes is to foist the city's will on some one because they dare use an alternative "safe" construction method is just a bunch of horse hockey." If you are referring to me, you might want to go back and re-read what I ACTUALLY said.

Here's the plain and simple truth, many alternate building methods don't meet municipal codes. That doesn't make them "death traps" or "unsafe", it makes them "not the same as what we expect and demand".

Here's a hint: You cannot build carbon-neutral housing to code, because codes don't allow it. Why would we want carbon neutral housing? Because we expect that we may need to live off-grid for a substantial period of time. It's called PREPPING. Why would we not want the government poking around our houses? I dunno... probably because it's not any of their damned business.

I live where I live because we are free here. Know what? I live in a town that's never had a building code, and to my knowledge in the last 50 years not one single person has died in a fire. Huh. Guess my 120 year old house, and the 100 year old plus houses north, northwest, west, east and south of me kinda prove that not every non-coded house will burn in the first 100 years that they are around.

Sorry to go off topic, I promise I am done on this subject.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I think this is a good debate. Good points all.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

When I was about 12, my folks tried to put up the first fiberglass home in Missouri. The project was delayed by more than six months because 'there was not a wall stud every 12 inches'. No matter the building was far stronger than a 'up to code' house; it didn't fit the *rules*. 

If the Code of 'must have utility-supplied power' was in force in my area, we'd sure have a lot of people needing new housing. Housing with barns attached, since many of the offenders would be Amish.

Given that most of government restrictions and abuses of freedom and privacy are justified in the name of SAFETY, I no longer accept such justification happily without looking at risk levels. I don't suspect that building codes on private homes increase safety very much. Most people who buy a home hire an inspector and wouldn't be interested in some shoddily built, unsafe thing -- or such is my experience.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Which is exactly what I am doing, living where there are no codes. You say "And for the other lad that said the only reason for these codes is to foist the city's will on some one because they dare use an alternative "safe" construction method is just a bunch of horse hockey." If you are referring to me, you might want to go back and re-read what I ACTUALLY said.
> 
> Here's the plain and simple truth, many alternate building methods don't meet municipal codes. That doesn't make them "death traps" or "unsafe", it makes them "not the same as what we expect and demand".
> 
> ...


Salt I'm happy your happy for where you live.

As for alternate building methods that don't meet codes, I'm sorry but that's like saying one doesn't like paying taxes. It's how our society is set up.

I personally don't buy the carbon free hype that a lot of folks seem to want to shove down everyone's throat.

What I said about the existing building codes - and I've been working with one or more of them for almost five decades - is that in almost every instance there are dead bodies that caused the code to be written.

In your house do you have smoke detectors? Probably.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Some are blaming the electric company because of disconnecting the electric. When the meter reader read the meter it came back as a stolen meter. There was nothing about an unpaid bill since the electric company had no idea who lived there.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Building codes also help the next family down the line who buys a home. 
Without code and inspections while the structure is built some unknowing person could innocently buy a death trap.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

All good points. 

But like many "regulations" here in the US, I believe many Building Codes have reached the point of oversaturation and have become over-reaching and intrusive. Logic has been thrown aside in some areas. 

Don't even get me started on some of the "Green" suggestive building practices that have driven up cost and bamboozled the public. Things like LEED, or FSC Forest Sustainable Council, VOC's, LCA's (look 'em up if you don't know)...its become a crazy world of acronym bingo. And too many people believe it to be gospel.

It is out of control, believe me...or don't.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

"It's how our society is set up" is a description of history, not evidence that that is the way things should continue to be. And if inspectors don't 'buy into zero carbon' that's ok, it should be a free country ... but the people who Do buy into it and consider it the right way to live, and have devised what they think is a safe and effective way to accomplish it, should be allowed to do so ... because it should be a free country.

And yep, we have smoke detectors, and a CO detector. And the house is built safely, despite 'no code'. We checked the house before we bought the house, as any reasonable person spending that much money should.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

When I lived in one of the suburbs of Dallas we had a code enforcement team that worked for the city. One lady would drive around and measure people's grass... With a ruler. If your grass was over 3 inches tall she would leave a note on your door saying that if you didn't mow it within 48 hours the city would come out and mow it for you for the low, low price of $500. She would leave that note even if your grass was just barely over. Now I could understand if she was targeting ratty looking overgrown properties, but she went after everyone. She would get you if you parked on the grass as well. That is over regulation. I am guessing that town was just as strict in enforcing building codes and regulations. I wonder how much revenue she generated for the city?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Sorry, I am an anarchistic leaning Libertarian. It's a hard sell to convince me that limiting my freedom is a good thing just because some other folks are stupid.


I agree

I have to pay extra money to have somebody CHECK and APPROVE my work..


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