# A Soldier Still the Pinnacle to Prepper Standards?



## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

I spend a lot time thinking about this.

Today's military is not the military of my father or my grandfather or the father before him.
It can't be cause of the way conflict adapts and changes by all participants of conflict.

There is a lot of variables in a fight, in a battle, in a war, too many to count, too many to calculate, too many to see every angle.

I have several buddies, all different branches, I live in a military town, you have Army, you have Air Force, you have Marines, and even PMC.

They talk about their training, and for their situation it makes sense to some extent, and yet like any answer there is no perfect answer.
Especially when we talk about how the military spends, what it spends it on, and how much they spend to get this or that.

It appears to me that many preppers take a "military" style approach to their preps, to how they talk, and what they use.
Words overhyped like "mil-spec" and "tactical" Yet knowing what I do from the talks I have had with those active mil, what
they do is heavily unit dependent. Take them out of their unit and they become ineffective.

I have worked a lot of different jobs related to security contracting and corrections. I lived in some rough neighborhoods,
seen and dealt with some heavy shit. My training is as Un-Orthodox as it gets. Yet for how I received my training, it has
been in its own way more disciplined, more thorough, more extensive, better defined than that of my buddies of various
basic MOS's.

I by no means have a "certificate in badassary", and such people of paper would only be fit for drawing circles on
setting it down range and blowing it to hell with all assumptions of just how cool you think you are.

On the other hand, some of the guys I've met that were about to do their first, second, hell maybe even their third tour,
I look at them and hoped they came back. Cause you look at them and you can feel by presence, whatever they were told,
shown, trained for, they weren't trained enough.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I no longer believe our soldiers going out there have the superior training that makes them a "warfighter".
I wouldn't blame anyone here that is military in this forum if you told me shut the hell up, or go over and see how long you last.

I don't blame the soldiers, they go over and sacrifice everything, come back to a shit show of adapting to civilian life. Maybe they
step on an IED, lose all four limbs, VA sucks, Civ's don't get it, Gov doesn't care cause they can't use you. Like a child with a broken toy he doesn't want anymore.

Am I so far off with my picture here? I would really love for people who are military to throw in. Is being a soldier really the ultimate standard for
survival? I just can't help think that a soldier shouldn't be the standard for someone looking to survive the worse of what is to come anymore.

I also can't help but feel being in the military won't train you like people would like to think to be the best at caring for yourself or family.
Especially when coming back from range, and a soldier and his family doesn't take the gear with him to change his own flat tire,
and it takes me just plain Joe Civilian American to come to his road side rescue. I know it is a completely different situation than his training,
but it some how to me speaks a volume in some big error in the training of soldiers.

I really hope I don't offend anyone here, but it is driving me crazy these questions.

Like I said all the respect for those who serve their country, and it actually upsets me that I feel the way I do.
Just searching for answers, feeling out of place with my thoughts, it feels very messed up to be a civilian and
being able to teach life saving things to military buddies. Cause everything tells you, that you are less, that you
should not be as well trained, or have the same amount of knowledge. That your career mil buddy should
know all the things you know and then 1,000 things more.

*I feel pretty about everything said in this post, I just don't know how else to ask or express the feelings troubling me.*

_I don't care about being cool, or being the best, just keeping those I love safe. If a soldier can't be the standard of the best trained,
the best maintained, and the best baddest ass kicking thing out there, then what becomes the standard to strive for?
the standard?_


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Infantry has been focusing on small unit tactics for some time now. While still apart of a larger Army they are expected to do more and more in smaller units.
Many of the skills learned and practiced as a unit are just as valid alone. Just because you are at skill level 4 does not mean you forgot 1-3.
Move to contact is just that 1 fighter or 40. Just building on the same skills. Kind of hard to do an over watch by fire alone but you get my point.
Not all soldiers are the same while I will not disrespect anyone's service . There is a difference in an E-5 supply and an E-4 Squad leader in the infantry. Both needed both valued. Different practiced skill sets.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

I know ex military I'd trust my life to and others I wouldn't want anywhere near if things broke bad. I'm not speaking to the larger issue of your post but I will say that people are people - no matter what their background. Some folks "get it" while others never will - even with the same exposure/training in any discipline. Moreover, there are plenty of "backwoods" kids (12-17 y/o) that, having grown up in a particular locale with proper mentorship would have a decided survival advantage over many professional soldiers.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm not military nor have ever been but from what I've seen, heard and read it seems like people in the military today (as opposed to the past) are the best trained in one small area and then have others that are (best trained in another area) to back them up rather than be well trained in a more broad sense. It also seems the military is very micro managed today so that might be the reason for my thoughts. Give a soldier a mission with a clear cut directive and I think they can handle it no problem but in a SHTF scenario as we like to talk about here there is no clear cut directive or end goal. It's just to survive the best you can. I do believe you take a trained soldier and then have them get survivalist training and you have one person that is probably going to outlast us all. Just my thoughts.

I think your post brings up some interesting questions and I hope no one takes offense to it because it seemed to me like you asked in a very respectful manner.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I think it also depends what specifically you were trained for. I was a tanker in a cav unit. I never trained on clearing houses and that kind of stuff. Then again, I wouldn't be storming any houses.

I did receive basic infantry training. As far as this being more large unit oriented... not so much. The training I got was mostly at the 2 man fire team level. Larger formations were collections of fire teams.

Tanker training stresses mobility. Shoot n scoot is the rule. It also stressed first round kills and long range gunnery. Tankers don't spray and pray, it's just not in our genetic makeup. With highly limited ammo supplies, you make every round count. I see these principals as being very applicable to the kinds of things preppers are "training" to survive.

Other skills, like land nav (map and compass), first aid, radio communications, and others should have some worth too.

I think the most important skill isn't a skill really... it's a mindset. Mission first. I don't care if it's cold, I don't care if I'm hungry, I don't care if it's dark or raining or dangerous... one boot in front of the other, you motor on no matter what. That mindset is hard to come by in the real world.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I'm not sure what you mean by "prepper standards". There are no standards that I am aware of other than getting through whatever happens in the best shape possible.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I think the individual has a different mind set that goes into the military. Which makes for a good survivalist, regardless of the training. Being trained with a rifle for combat with a helicopter/jet over your head covering your back won't translate in a SHTF scenario IMO.

There are plenty of people that have been born and raised with a rifle in their hand. Hunting, fishing and trapping from diapers with grandpa and dad their whole lives. Those are the ones you will have to worry about. They are killers with more experience killing then most soldiers. They won't hesitate to shoot and have years experience MAKING a killing shot. With out spraying the area with full auto fire.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Soldiers are trained in using cover and shooting straight under pressure so I would never want to directly challenge a trained soldier in a shooting conflict. Having said that it takes a lot more skills so survive if society collapsed in any serious way. We can generally grow our food and in the long run food, shelter and the ability to defend them is what would be required. 

Soldiers have 1st class training in one of these three requirements, they are trained to fight with some survival skills like how to sterilize water thrown in not to mention they're in pretty good physical condition. Depending your situation other skills such as orienteering and power production, farm animal care, and non-trauma medical knowledge may also be areas that you may need and hopefully have more expertise than a fighting soldier.

Still, all and all having a few trained defenders would be great to add to the group.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

As Smitty pointed out, there are a wide variety of jobs in the Army. For every light weapons infantryman there are 9 or 10 support troops to back him up. (And yes, armor and artillery is support).
I can not speak of today's military, only my own experience. Which was 1967-1970, both at Fort Carson, Colorado (too cold for a Florida boy), and the DMZ area of Vietnam.
I was a support troop, but back then Army doctrine said every man is a rifleman first, so I had that basic knowledge imparted to me just in case.
Some things I was taught, other than how to operate the M14 and M16 rifles - land navigation, basic battlefield first aid (think "trauma"), field sanitation, primitive living in field conditions, how to function alone and as a part of a team, field expedient ways to get tasks done other than what the manual says, jungle survival. And some things that may not translate to the civilian world, such as how to handle prisoners and other military specific tasks.

Now, does that make me some kind of survival or prepper guru? No, not really. Everything I was taught (except possibly for thing like explosive devices, full auto weaponry and the like) can be found in the civilian world too. The only advantage afforded me is I was taught the Army Way - it was hammered into my head over and over and over and then put to use until it became second nature and required no thought.

Nope, I'm not Billy Badguy.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

infantry soldiers are trained in skill sets that start off very general and are then adjusted to theater and mission needs. Units expected to function in the dessert can not waste training time on jungle tasks. Mission Essential Task List. Big dam book. List every single task a soldier may need skill level 1 up from how to clean a weapon to how to occupy a city.
When you are given a mission list to prepare for at each level your planning starts with the list. Example you have the mission defend a FOB. There maybe sub groups but I need to cut this short. You look up that task go across it list every single task soldiers must know at each skill level. You then look up your other mission move to contact,you do the same. the list will line up all tasks common to both missions they are now high return training. Never enough time to train them all. You then look at where you Unit is . Experienced Infantry trained to standard and tested Company commander Top skill level 1 maintain M4 rile Top replies trained sir . It becomes a low priority move on down the list. From this you ID what must be focused on in the time you have. When this part is done you have a list of Trained , Practiced, and Untrained.
You then set your training plan, higher reviews then get to it.
Few understand how this works depending on rank and assigned slot how much you are involved in this stage varies.
By the time most soldiers in the infantry have reach SGT E-5 they have acquired a large skill set and had in most cases had to demonstrate the ability to put them to use and train others to do so. This is also the time we start thinning the heard , who will make it to E-6,7 and on. Each phase gets harder as the numbers needed are considerably lower.
Not every soldier promoted is as good as they should be not every soldier is meant to be an infantry leader. Remember for every infantry soldier in the field there is 1-7 in support some where.
Lot of stuff to digest but meant to show you can no more paint soldiers with a broad bush than you can people with any title. Soldiers are encouraged and forced to think on the move applying the skills they have to meet the needs in the field. Most do a dam good job of it.
Top out


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

And then some go to learn a skill to profit a gang,others to earn money or get schooling and insurance
In that case this very unpopular definition fits

mercenary - definition of mercenary by The Free Dictionary


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> And then some go to learn a skill to profit a gang,others to earn money or get schooling and insurance
> In that case this very unpopular definition fits
> 
> mercenary - definition of mercenary by The Free Dictionary


And then some of us retreat to quiet country living and small scale farming.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

One could argue that an EMT or paramedic has the ultimate skill set, especially if they have spent a lifetime hunting, fishing, and camping.

What about a farmer? They have good planning skills, know how to produce and store food, are used to hard work, can usually fix anything that needs fixing, and I have yet to meet a farmer who didn't know how to shoot well.

And what about lawyers and politicians? They can, ummm, well that is, they know how to, errrr. Ok, they will all die off pretty quick.

I suspect it would be very difficult for any "lone wolf" type to survive long term. You have to sleep sometime. Groups with a wide range of skills would probably do better than one made up of all ex-infantry. But then again, the all military group would probably bring a lot of "non-military" skills to the table too... to make it, they would have to.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> And then some go to learn a skill to profit a gang,others to earn money or get schooling and insurance
> In that case this very unpopular definition fits
> 
> mercenary - definition of mercenary by The Free Dictionary


 There is no doubt skills learned and honed in the Army gave me a huge step ahead of others in my new life. I did have to go to charm school a couple times.
Seems non military people have feels that get hurt.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

I'll leave all questions of military training to those that know something about it. I will speak as a teacher though, cuz that I'm not clueless about. Transferability of skills is a big deal, and many people struggle with it much more than you'd expect. What was learned in one setting may well not be successfully adapted to a different situation, because people aren't magically good at transferring their skills. The transference itself is a separate skill that must be trained.

Knowing this, I wouldn't expect someone trained even to Flatout Awesomeness in one setting to be well trained to something as different as military service from dealing with dramatic societal upheaval.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Spice said:


> I'll leave all questions of military training to those that know something about it. I will speak as a teacher though, cuz that I'm not clueless about. Transferability of skills is a big deal, and many people struggle with it much more than you'd expect. What was learned in one setting may well not be successfully adapted to a different situation, because people aren't magically good at transferring their skills. The transference itself is a separate skill that must be trained.
> 
> Knowing this, I wouldn't expect someone trained even to Flatout Awesomeness in one setting to be well trained to something as different as military service from dealing with dramatic societal upheaval.


 When you get down to the ground Army infantry training is geared toward do something, take action. Use the skills you have been trained on any way you can to over come. As Rice paddy daddy said in another thread we train over and over again on some tasks until we do them with out thinking we do then when hurt we do them when a sleep, when scared to death. You get so good at land nav if you train right it does not consume much of your mind. You are doing other task at the same time. Different soldiers reach different skill levels as in all areas of life.
Something I learned quickly on this side is many of the soldiers I knew had the abilities to run the show on this side. Unlike Kerry's statements about soldiers joining the Army because they were uneducated many of my soldier would have no problem out preforming what we call educated.


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## OC40 (Sep 16, 2014)

I'll be honest my knee jerk reaction is ... STFU, but I see where you are coming from when you are on the outside looking in. The key element you are missing is that the military is a machine, a massive machine with many specialized parts. The PART you seem to be missing is that "prepper" isn't one of the MOS's. How screwed up does a situation have to become when the military has to teach you to prep? 
Case in point I use to do this...









but now I do this..









I don't remember there being a *"btw when SHTF, bug out and leave your buddies behind"* brief.

Sure, there is SERE school, but damn we shouldn't be putting our people in a situation in which everyone needs to be a grad of SERE training. That would be just PPP, and most likely unit commanders would be fired on the spot. Sorry Major Gen but the entire Brigade is using their SERE training because we screwed up. 
Between air support, off shore units, the AF and their drones, WHEN all of that is put to proper planning and then applied as "overwhelming force" the military shouldn't be planning to train a bunch of "preppers".

Now here is the catch-22 for the 98.27% who have not signed up, (because only 1.73% of the nation has or currently is defending this nation) they have this romance of military service and a completely unexplainable "movie" star idea of what we actually do. We are not GI Joe, or whatever movie is running in the theaters this week. Most of us are pulling our primary job, plus training those below us in the pay scale and "mommy/daddy" those young kids who still can't think.

I have not actually bumped into that many "preppers" in my almost 20 years of service. Gun lovers, Gear-nuts, hunters, outdoors man sure&#8230; But those who think about digging in or Bugging out when SHTF nope&#8230; most of us are thinking of the next world event we are going to get dragged off to. I'll admit it is cool to think of how to plan out a yard or how many rounds, but if SHTF I bet the "how to can food" book and those skills become a lot more important! MMMMM canned veggies&#8230; 
I am going to take one point... with your post..

_"Like I said all the respect for those who serve their country, and it actually upsets me that I feel the way I do.
Just searching for answers, feeling out of place with my thoughts, it feels very messed up to be a civilian and
being able to teach life saving things to military buddies. Cause everything tells you, that you are less, that you
should not be as well trained, or have the same amount of knowledge. That your career mil buddy should
know all the things you know and then 1,000 things more._

You have skills, congrats we all do... you have something to teach me & I have something to teach you. Sounds like you are seeking an ego "bump". I am no better then the clerk at the grocery store or the mechanic who works on my car. That's the one thing you'll never understand, it's the brotherhood of the military. We have our sibling rivalry but we don't go beating our chest in the "I have more skills then you" game when rounds go down range or mission tankers are overhead. As another posted before me... Mission First!


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Honestly, I think "the Pinnacle to Prepper Standards" is self sufficiency, not amazing combat skills. 

A guy might be the second coming of John Rambo, but does he know how to raise chickens? Can she know how to prune fruit trees? Does he know how to build a fence? Does she know how to make flower out of cattails? Can he butcher livestock and not make a mess of it. Does she know how to determine when a pasture is being overgrazed? 

Yes, I get that self defense is important, but it is just ONE part of being a prepper, if that's all a person can do then they are going to have a short and unhappy life as a raider.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

OC40, I love the one with the combat engineers. I am sure I have heard a few of them say something like that. Todays therads had my mind wandering places I don't go often. That made me laugh


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

OC40 said:


> I'll be honest my knee jerk reaction is ... STFU,


agree with the above... my first thought was "A$$ Clown"

Discipline and the ability to follow orders is a large plus... hard to learn that at the local lumber mill


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

So much of my life was spent in uniform. I married a Marine, after collage both sons Army infantry. We all three deployed together. Sons have 20 and 19 years in now.
For much of my life I was around Military. Because of that I forget that most have never been in the military and many of those that have it was 2-4 years and out. I have to be reminded that just As I often do not understand people that spent their entire life on this side ,they are just as like to not understand the life I come from.
Before we were soldiers we were farmers, we did a lot of things. Now in a second life we are returning to a place we came from. On the same land settled by family.
A lot of perpper talk does wander into defense, with out it you will have nothing. However should STHF we can pray we never have to take up arms. Nothing wrong with being ready just in case. Trusting in the good of man will leave you disappointed.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> OC40, I love the one with the combat engineers. I am sure I have heard a few of them say something like that. Todays therads had my mind wandering places I don't go often. That made me laugh


We used to say that Combat Engineers were Infantry with a job. :armata_PDT_12:


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

No American soldier has ever been trained "enough" for the war he has fought. Experience fills in the gaps that training leaves. We are highly specialized. An infantry man is not as well trained in radios as a como guy, who is not trained to cook like a cook, who can't drive a tank like a tanker, who can't fix a vehicle like a mechanic. It's the same as the civilian world. The DIFFERENCE, is that we are all trained in combat, and we are all trained that if we can't do something, we find someone who can and the job still gets done. We adapt improvise and overcome. We are not entirely self reliant because we are not "individuals" but parts of a larger machine. We play our roll. 

If I get a flat tire I know I can call a tow truck to fix it. (I am perfectly capable of fixing my own car, this is just an example) If I need legal assistance I seek a lawyer, if I need food I seek a cook, etc. Just like average joe. But when SHTF I can organize people, make decisions on the fly, live with the consequences, keep people directed and motivated, I can teach, give and take direction, and accomplish my mission no matter what. So as a lone wolf type, no, soldiers are not a prepper standard, but in a group, I'd hope to hell I had soldiers in my group.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> I think the most important skill isn't a skill really... it's a mindset. Mission first. I don't care if it's cold, I don't care if I'm hungry, I don't care if it's dark or raining or dangerous... one boot in front of the other, you motor on no matter what. That mindset is hard to come by in the real world.


I agree; that is the most important survival skill I learned in the Army. The motto was, Drive On. Period. Sure, I learned skills that will help me when the crap goes down, but none of them are as important as the ability to step up and do what needs be done regardless of the adversity.

Yes, soldiers are a part of a larger entity, and that entity comes complete with a supply chain, but the discipline instilled in each of them is their greatest asset.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Yep its all about mindset Go ugly early and never be scared to take action. Wouldn't hurt to hang out with a few 18 series guys though.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

_@ Diver - When I say "prepper standards" I mean what people who prep model themselves after military guys
in terms of plans and preps, in this case fighting or conflict capacity.
_
@ OC40 - No I completely understand from hanging out with the guys I know the whole concept of the brotherly love.
Especially thousands of miles away all you have is the guy next to you. You depend on him to stay alive same as he 
depends on you to keep him alive. No need for ego bump, all ego does is get you killed.

_@ Main-Marine - What is your second thought? Did you have one? Your thoughts currently seemed geared at slamming me in threads.
If you have an issue more than happy to settle it for you like two adults in PM's. I don't need to bash you cause I don't like your views._

@ Everyone else - I appreciate the feedback, and the honest answers. I hope all of you understand that I have a very deep respect for military,
my friends are military, grandfather was, soon to be brother in law is, fiancee's dad is. I just happened to find someone I couldn't spend 6 - 9 months away 
from potentially each year for 4 years - career if deployed. My mission became protecting her vs protecting my country.

I also know that when you are deployed the guys next to you have to come first, before family, before everything, and you have to be there 110%. 
If I committed to something like that I would want to throw down 110% as well. Having someone back home I am thinking about everyday
would probably end me up in a casket or someone else. That would be blood on my hands if I failed cause I wasn't there all the way.

On the other hand I struggle with the thought that there are good guys dying some where far away from home. Even if I wanted to I just can't be
as disconnected as everyone else ( average civilians ) who is so busy watching their tv, shopping, and reading the shit on msn homepage or facebook.

Every night before I go to bed I think about what if I woke up tomorrow and ISIS or some other group was in our backyard. What if all those pictures you
see of gutted out and bombed out buildings was the park where you walked, the apartment or house you lived in, the diner where you ate. What if one
day we have to own that reality. Not cause our military isn't strong, but because shit happens, and only about 2% - 5% of our country really gives a damn.
95%+ percent of our country would be a shit out of luck panic fest of retards killing each other in the streets over the last can of tuna.

Every morning I wake up and I research, or I train, or I work out. I go to work at a job that pays less just cause the hours were more stable so I would have
the stable budget to save back, and work in a field where I am dealing with dangerous people all damn day long to keep my skills sharp, cause I refuse to become
complacent. However at the end of the day ( am not religious but... )I pray to god that I don't come to the door bashed in and the woman I love dead.
I live the way I do just hoping that what I am doing is right, and that whatever I am spending my time doing will buy me just one more day, one more hour,
one more minute with the only person who is my entire world.

You see it has nothing to do with being a badass, there is no ego here. Only the fear I may be one inch too far to the left, one second too late with my swing,
a step too late. I don't feel badass at all, and I know no matter how much piss and vinegar I have, I will never be enough alone to guarantee her safety.

What I do know though is this, most of the world doesn't care until the people they love are dying. I can't change them, I can only change myself. But I feel
that limitation, I feel the very real sense that some things are purely out of my control, and I feel the very small scale of self in comparison to the a world
that is a little more on fire every day.

I know it isn't fair to try to paint all soldiers with the same broad brush. It is not my intent. But in my life the symbol of a soldier has been the single inspiration
I have looked at for being strong, being brave, and I know they are only human, however that is their profession, protecting us. So when I see just how human
soldiers are despite their job duty, how careless and unprepared they can be, I keep wondering who to model myself after.

It is like athletes, the best always strive to be as good as the top guy in their sport. I have that drive, but I don't want to put my bar at the level of some of the
guys I know around me, cause while they are all good guys, they do some amazingly stupid shit and it just makes me wonder who the hell I should be looking
to in order to raise my bar, but in a way that makes sense for the scenarios I might face.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

What is, is, what is not, is not, is it not? Take it for what you will. 330 in the morn, guess I'm just stupid. May be one reason for the draft, young guys with minimal strings to anyone.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SAR-1L said:


> _@ Diver - When I say "prepper standards" I mean what people who prep model themselves after military guys
> in terms of plans and preps, in this case fighting or conflict capacity.
> _


Maybe that is why I am not quite getting this thread. I'm not modeling myself after anyone. I am who I am and completely comfortable in my own skin. I don't see a need to model myself after anyone else.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> We used to say that Combat Engineers were Infantry with a job. :armata_PDT_12:


 The Army is different today than it was. I had a A&O PLT light combat ENG attached. At first they drove me nuts, but proved to be one heck of an asset .


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> The Army is different today than it was. I had a A&O PLT light combat ENG attached. At first they drove me nuts, but proved to be one heck of an asset .


It would be amusing if anyone from my old unit was on here and remembers "we just been Rrrrrr Peeeee Geeeeeee'd" in the worst Alabama ******* accent ever coming from the company commander of a NG engineer unit, or the several other false reports that flowed over the radio as we returned to the site where we had been providing over watch for them for 18 hours. All to discover a single shot had been fired from an AK, and the resulting 5 hour search and seizure mission that followed?

Not a fan of engineers, we left them to pull their own security for 20 minutes.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

The mission changes with the threat. I was Navy and now we are a more "littoral" force. The carriers are downsizing from the Nimitz class to the Gerald R. Ford class and fast attack subs do more SEAL insertions than sub hunting. At the very crux of this is SEER training. That's where the "survival" rubber hits the road so to speak. It's great stuff. I think every service member should have to go through that school. I missed the boat on it myself but it is a great school. With ISIS and their ilk being big fans of hostage taking it should be a must that people learn how to avoid that and if it does happen how to endure, resist and survive.

I still believe that BUDS is the toughest school in the world and produces top tier sailors that can do anything. I also have the greatest faith in our Rangers, Force Recon Marines, Para Rescue Airmen, Green Berets and Delta Force Operators. They get the best training in the world. Is it the best it can be? No, but is it ever?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

SAR-1L said:


> _@ Main-Marine - What is your second thought? Did you have one? Your thoughts currently seemed geared at slamming me in threads.
> If you have an issue more than happy to settle it for you like two adults in PM's. I don't need to bash you cause I don't like your views._


In your OP you said you would not blame military folks for telling you to STHU... now you are blaming me for telling you to STHU... please make up your mind..

here is my second thought - if you want to be critical of the military as a whole - you are a crazy loon to think we are going to sit here with our thumbs up our noses and not say anything

third thought SHUT THE HELL UP and give yourself a self imposed 7 day ban


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I know that for 3 months with out a break the light Combat ENG worked 18 hours a day in heat that was 130 by 1000 and hit as high as 140. When I ask for a clay berm they made it , when I ask for a hole in the ground they dug it. When We needed an area cleared of mines they cleared it. After that 3 months for the next 15 months they may have got a few more hours rest out of 24 but they busted their asses every day. No madder the task they took it on . When short for convoy escorts, they stepped up.
SHTF around here there is not a one of them I would not gladly welcome on our team.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> One could argue that an EMT or paramedic has the ultimate skill set, especially if they have spent a lifetime hunting, fishing, and camping.
> 
> What about a farmer? They have good planning skills, know how to produce and store food, are used to hard work, can usually fix anything that needs fixing, and I have yet to meet a farmer who didn't know how to shoot well.
> 
> ...


LOL Come on Prep. Politicians and Lawers have to be good for something. Don't they?


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

It is mostly moronic and administrative tasks "all races" are willing and intelligent/reliable enough to do. The less real and more full of parasites that are little more than a clothes horse putting on a act. Couldn't fight a un-arranged war or function without directions, compared to traditional American idea of a wholly independent unit functioning as a team for success.
Commied out and pacified but no one notices except races for whom some people's "comfort and happiness!" Level is the bottom of the sense and maturity level barrel. A benefit and birthday party for pointless chimps that won't really benefit or be of much use, but welfare for life they had to work for at least some.
"If you joins for one year and say "ooh my feets hurts" then they gots to pay you from now on. Yesss baby."
Some guys do it all while some are just wondering around practicing the current successful excuses.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

It seems to me that much of this thread has devolved into whether or not military training will be an advantage for preppers. Let me answer that right at the beginning, YES. 

One comment implied that Infantry training wouldn't be an advantage because Infantrymen are trained to rely on artillery/air support when they encounter enemy forces. It's been a long time since I went through 11B (Small Arms Infantry) training at Ft. Polk La., but I don't remember being trained to sit back and wait for the artillery or air support to handle the problem. What the person who made this post doesn't understand is that often Infantry men are actually out of range of their own artillery, and because of the possibility of the lack of available aircraft or weather, or because in built up urban areas indirect fire support is not available, Infantrymen ARE NOT trained to be overly dependent on it. 

Another poster who is an educator implied former Military members would not be very good at training others on the skills that they had acquired in the Military. This is another case of the poster not knowing what he is talking about. If you were an NCO in the Military, one of your main responsibilities was to train (educate) those under you. NCO's have numerous REQUIRED schools that they have to attend that teaches them how to train others. 

Being a former Military member is not going to mean that you are going to know how to raise chickens or how to prune trees. That is true. I learned how to do things like that in addition to raising hogs, sheep, cattle, and horses growing up, and how to butcher them (not the horses) for meat, and how to prepare that meat for storage. 

IMO opinion in addition to combat skills that I learned, what the most important things that I learned in the Military was self discipline, organization, team work, and to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done. In other words, a mindset. You can learn the later things from other training, Law enforcement/Fire Fighting come immediately to mind, but many people, including myself, probably learn most of what would be beneficial to them in a prepper situation from their parents, and many folks are now getting training on their own

IMO there is no single source for the "best" training for a SHTF situation, but the Military is a good but not the sole source place to start. What is MOST important is for each individual to honestly evaluate themselves and to try to rectify any shortcomings that they may have.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I got a lot more out of the US Army than how to shoot an rifle. My schooling include Sanitation, dealing with the dead. Crowd control, Fire ,disease prevention. Food ,water, transportation hasty and planned relocation, first aid. Every time a stripe went on the level of training and testing went up it never ended. Much of that training you started out dealing with it at a level of 4 soldiers, then 8, 40,100-150 and so on. I was an infantry soldier but they found a reason to send me to Network training. Came in handy latter.
If I had to sit down and list every training and testing program they put me though few would believe it. If you were not doing you were training to do it. If not your were at the next level training. Sure many did their time and little more ,they showed up and did what was expected. But if you wanted it the Army would shove more at you than you could take. Oldest son spent a year one course to the next, finish one army ask ready for more and on it went. He put it this way he got more out of Army training in 1 year than 4 years of college. When offered a commission he replied with respect no thanks I having to much fun as an NCO.
My last MOS was 11Z5M The joke was they switched it to Z from B because now you could do anything any where anytime. Not everyone's experience in the Army was the same as mine I understand that., yea I drank the cool-aid, I stood and saluted the Flag still do .
I pray everyday S don't hit the fan weather it does or not each day what I got from the Army serves me and those around me well.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

We had a saying in Vietnam:

" We, the unwilling,
Led by the unknowing,
In the name of the ungrateful,
Have done so much with so little for so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing."

And another excellent experience that pays dividends in the civilian world is the old truism "When you are short of everything except the enemy, you are in combat."

Plus, an advantage of those my age comes from being raised by parents who survived the Great Depression and WWII. We learned how to make do, and do without. Unlike SOME of those younger folks raised in the Age Of Materialism.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

The basic question is, "Is A Soldier Still the Pinnacle to Prepper Standards?" 

So if the OP is asking if military training teaches the best skill set for a prepper, you almost have to make a list of other kinds of training, then see how they compare. 

There are tons of different jobs in the military, but everyone gets taught some common skills too. Like marksmanship, first aid, land navigation, small unit tactics, basic radio communications, teamwork, physical conditioning, CRBN training, basic fieldcraft, operations in urban areas, and other skills. And don't forget the intangibles like the "mission first" mindset.

So what other kinds of training even come close?

The short answer is yes, military training is the gold standard for preppers.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> The basic question is, "Is A Soldier Still the Pinnacle to Prepper Standards?"
> 
> So if the OP is asking if military training teaches the best skill set for a prepper, you almost have to make a list of other kinds of training, then see how they compare.
> 
> ...


The only thing I can add to this, it is not only the training received, but the experience that comes from applying that training. Whether at sea or on land, peacetime or wartime, the USE of the training unleashes a greater skill - improvisation.
One thing that was drilled into us was never give up, the next thing you try might work.
In a bad situation this is often the difference between life and death.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> The basic question is, "Is A Soldier Still the Pinnacle to Prepper Standards?"
> 
> So if the OP is asking if military training teaches the best skill set for a prepper, you almost have to make a list of other kinds of training, then see how they compare.
> 
> ...


Military training is a tool for preps like any other skill set that one can acquire. It is not an end all be all for prepping. There are many vocations that will give you the skill set that you would get in the military. A good hunter knows how to track and navigate. An EMT knows field medic skill sets. You may laugh but people who participate in competitive paintball games know defensive and offensive strategies.

The bottom line is you get a broad range of training in the military that covers a little bit of a broad range of survival techniques. Those same skills can be learned by living your normal life depending on what you do with your spare time. In most cases you may even get a better depth of knowledge because you aren't constrained to do things the military's way.

I actually think farmers will fare slightly better than someone with just a military background and nothing else. I would say a homesteader is the gold standard for prepping.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

OH NO! Diver liked my post, I must be wrong. Ignore everything I wrote in that last post.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> In your OP you said you would not blame military folks for telling you to STHU...


Some have and others have simply disagreed with my point of view, yet they did it in a respectful and informative way.



Maine-Marine said:


> now you are blaming me for telling you to STHU... please make up your mind..


I am not blaming you for that, cause you never said it in your first reply. Instead you came in here to trash talk and call names
like you have in response to some of my other threads my first day back.



Maine-Marine said:


> here is my second thought - if you want to be critical of the military as a whole -
> you are a crazy loon to think we are going to sit here with our thumbs up our noses and not say anything


I expected them to say something and they did. They did it exactly as I hoped, with lots of damn good information 
and points based off their personal experiences. They also managed to do it with courtesy and respect.



Maine-Marine said:


> third thought SHUT THE HELL UP and give yourself a self imposed 7 day ban


If you want me to STHU, fine I understand. Better yet you should probably mute me or not read what I post.
As for your idea that I should give myself a 7 day ban, to be honest I think you are an arrogant little prick.

I gave you the opportunity to resolve this like adults in pm's ( something mods have told me to do if I have a problem with someone. )
However if you wish to continue trash talk like some of the punks I deal with at my work in corrections
I am just gonna write you off and mute you. Cause you literally seem to have nothing else to contribute except
insults and self justified shitty attitude.

*As for everyone else I truly appreciate your feedback on this thread, and the manner you handled it especially if your views differ from mine.*


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

SAR-1L said:


> ... to be honest I think you are an arrogant little prick.[/B]


Well I never!!! Well actually a couple of times but I was usually called a big prick

There were a couple of other folks that were harsher then me, so I have to wonder - are you attracted to me? It is fine if you are. I will not judge your for it, but we will not be taking showers together into the wee hours of the morning...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

oh and to clarify... I would only be ARROGANT if I thought I was superior to EVERYBODY - I, however, only think I am superior to you! Well you and hawgrider....lol


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

I actually think farmers will fare slightly better than someone with just a military background and nothing else. I would say a homesteader is the gold standard for prepping."

Yes. With a medical repertoire that far exceeds what people get told is medicine. This has been a "cooperate" thing from the beginning, that's why americans have been programmed to "not" and also to not take anything seriously. Stranded out alone with some jokes was the plan.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

rjd25 said:


> Military training is a tool for preps like any other skill set that one can acquire. It is not an end all be all for prepping. There are many vocations that will give you the skill set that you would get in the military. A good hunter knows how to track and navigate. An EMT knows field medic skill sets. You may laugh but people who participate in competitive paintball games know defensive and offensive strategies.
> 
> The bottom line is you get a broad range of training in the military that covers a little bit of a broad range of survival techniques. Those same skills can be learned by living your normal life depending on what you do with your spare time. In most cases you may even get a better depth of knowledge because you aren't constrained to do things the military's way.
> 
> I actually think farmers will fare slightly better than someone with just a military background and nothing else. I would say a homesteader is the gold standard for prepping.


Depends on your job in the military and farming.
Commercial farmer aint gonna farm nothing but dirt when the commercial fertilizers and pesticides stop coming in.
PAC Clerk never knew anything anyways.
All organic heirloom farmer prolly wont notice SHTF.
18 Series we train to live without a rule of law so everything is on the table from combat to delivering babies that includes farming and herd management.
So yea it really comes down to the individual shitty farmer or super farmer people come in all shapes and sizes.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

And when compared to the general population, a high percentage of farmers or their children join the military for at least one enlistment.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

SAR-1L's original post got me to thinking (as well as most of the replies) that having a group of people with varying skills is necessary in a SHTF situation. Experienced Military would certainly be high on my list. But for now, I'll have to rely on Mrs Slippy's natural skills as a Drill Sgt.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

2 of 12 or so are old military here. That perspective and thought is largely on what people do, as opposed to the rest who are basically environment and supply. It takes both and still no guarantees


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

rjd25 said:


> I actually think farmers will fare slightly better than someone with just a military background and nothing else. I would say a homesteader is the gold standard for prepping.


I think for the purpose of what I am looking for a homesteader would be exactly what I was asking for,
simply cause there is so much more than than combat. Plus while I am willing to defend the things I
care about, I want to do it home not across seas away from everything I love.

I want to emphasize again that I have the utmost respect for anyone in the military and the sacrifices they make.
This thread wasn't ever about thinking I am better than anyone, or saying any group is better than another,
only an inability to accept that I couldn't some how better myself.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

SAR-1L said:


> I think for the purpose of what I am looking for a homesteader would be exactly what I was asking for,
> simply cause there is so much more than than combat. Plus while I am willing to defend the things I
> care about, I want to do it home not across seas away from everything I love.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't a homesteader be the gold standard in homesteading? Prepping and homesteading are not the same. However, I think you are on to something in the sense that homesteading might be a better course than "prepping"


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

oddapple said:


> 2 of 12 or so are old military here. That perspective and thought is largely on what people do, as opposed to the rest who are basically environment and supply. It takes both and still no guarantees


My research indicates 1 of 6 but who's counting?


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Jakthesoldier said:


> Wouldn't a homesteader be the gold standard in homesteading? Prepping and homesteading are not the same. However, I think you are on to something in the sense that homesteading might be a better course than "prepping"


No they aren't - being viable and surviving on earth and simple pack ratting are world's apart. Pack rats pile stuff up in hoards, home steaders make the things they pile up.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

SAR-1L said:


> I think for the purpose of what I am looking for a homesteader would be exactly what I was asking for,
> simply cause there is so much more than than combat. Plus while I am willing to defend the things I
> care about, I want to do it home not across seas away from everything I love.
> 
> ...


The point I was trying to make was that serving in a combat zone is much more than simply warfighting. When you are at the end of the supply line and have to do without darn near everything you learn to improvise. At least it was that way on the Vietnam DMZ. I understand that things may be different now, I heard base camps in Iraq even had McDonalds.
When homesteading, improvisation is important, versus firing up the pick up and driving an hour to Home Depot or Tractor Supply.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Slippy said:


> My research indicates 1 of 6 but who's counting?


All the males to warrior, just that two have imperial training in the profession. Both are advisors and "lead" is arrived at by putting all parts on the table and naturally going with what is obvious to everyone. 
If there is a figure-head thing it rotates. The one who knows most of a thing will say first or show and unless someone else points out something about it, it flies.


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