# Is bugging out ever REALLY an option?



## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Under _most_ situations that could be called "SHTF", I personally believe these are truths.

1. No matter what happens Martial Law will immediately be implemented.
2. Odds are 90% there will be no or _very_ limited electricity / city water.
3. It will NOT be safe to be outside at night anyplace populated enough where you can see other peoples buildings at all.
4. Stores will be cleaned out by hoarders and looters, with new supplies either non-existent, or nearly so.
5. Travel by road may be risky. _Especially_ in remote areas without police or troops present.
6. Police & troops WILL be searching homes and cars, confiscating all firearms and most supplies (look up "Katrina" on Youtube!).

All this in one week. And crime is getting worse every day. When does it become an intelligent choice to leave your home / shelter and all your supplies & belongings to be thieved in minutes by on-lookers? With the expectation of living out of a backpack! Even if you _had_ a bug out location. What are the odds of it still being intact? Remote cabin or farm house? Almost certainly looted by local teens by the third day because they knew it was empty. I grew up in the country (closest neighbor was almost a mile away) and _every_ kid and adult knew all about every house and cabin there was within 50 miles! What do you _think_ small town people talk about when they meet up?!? 

For most people bugging out immediately will be prohibited by waiting to see if things are really bad enough, or if they will still need to be at work the next day.

Only way I can see leaving is if forced by fire, hurricane, tornado, or other complete destruction of the shelter I'm already in.

Soooo, other than just to keep things organized. Is a BOB nothing more than a "romantic idea"? What are your thoughts?


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## split (Sep 2, 2013)

For some people the bug out is the only option. For example, people in cities, people in apartments... or people that in general have not prepped.

As a prepper, I believe bugging in is the only viable option. 
Here is a poll:
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-talk/5383-you-prepping-bug-out.html


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

How you react depends on your circumstances .
Some of us do not live any where near a city bugging out makes no sense to us.
Few members of out group do live in a city and will be bugging out here.
The key is when do you cut and run if you must.
The BOB most of us have is tool we need to get to our place ,to get to safe points alone the way if we are farther away.
My BOB is not intended to live out of worst case 24 hours.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Even those in remote locations should have a bug out pan as things happen such as wild fires.

There is also a world of difference in what you an do to prepare if you are a home owner versus a renter.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I was there for Katrina Army business ended up getting involved . What a joke it was..... sorry but it was sad.
Hurricanes not an issue here, Tornado's could be but the shelter will do just fine. Flooding we are good here.
Fire, woods far enough away. I am pretty sure we will be alright


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

I can't agree with your conclusion here BigCheeseStick. There's no way to know how events will play out and while some communities may embrace martial law, I know others will not. Our military isn't big enough to lock down everywhere and our military that tries will not be received with open loving arms. They'll have to concentrate on the bigger cities first either way where the biggest populations are of course. But martial law in that aspect is unconstitutional and many still believe in the constitution. Foreign troops trying will find themselves under fire quickly. Lots of people are aware and heavily pissed off these days. Why do you think guns sales have been so hot lately. People have taken note of what happened in Katrina and many are not going to be smiling as police and any military type force goes door to door trying to take guns and enforcing their control. I know I'm not the only one who see them as traitors in doing so and will light them the hell up. And they'll deserve exactly what they get. 

The aspect of famine, chaos, crime, and mayhem will certainly be true in lots of areas if it's bad enough to go to that, but not everywhere. Anyone I think would choose to stay put if they could survive there, but if they can't than bugging out is what they'll have to do. And deal with the circumstances as they lay. Most are in no way capable of surviving once the system crashes, but those are the breaks. Don't be one of them and/or let them take what you have. In reality we've got a population here way bigger than can survive off what of the countryside is open to go to. And those that think they are going to feed off of others land and supplies will find in most cases, they'll be meet with lead and brass. It's a cold reality, but it's a cold world and we're overpopulated. Got to thin the herd.

Many will bugout though if it comes to it and many will go to places they'll continue on at. Those with setup BOL's the better and those that are in groups already the better also. Those not will be forced to, because alone, someone can always be overcome easier than in numbers of strength. People will die, and people will continue on. What comes of it long term, there's no way to know. It may never happen and we'll keep doing what we're doing maybe, till we die old and beaten, a little less free everyday, a little more a slave everyday, fed more lies and things to keep us entertained and complacent while the world keeps spinning as it has. I don't think so though like many here and like them, I'll bug out if I have to.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Folks will fight back against sudden change. Any takeover by the government will be incrimental . . . bring the water to a boil slowlyl.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

The first thing to do is define SHTF.

Will it be a pandemic event, . . . rapidly covering the entire North American continent?

Will it be a political event, . . . concerning only the USA?

Will it be a local but devastating event, . . . covering Columbus, Ohio and outward by 200 miles?

The answer to the original question will dictate each person's reaction / action. 

The big danger is getting one's mind and plans all steeped in one single possible means, . . . and ignoring everything else. An old military axiom states something to the effect that we always need a backup plan, . . . as the original begins to fail 90 seconds into the problem.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

I agree with almost everything you guys mention. And I myself keep _four_ different bags that could be called bug out bags. Each for different situations. I guess the thing I'm wondering about is when people talk about bugging out as their knee jerk reaction to SHTF. Barring a regional problem that MUST be fled like a hurricane or fire. Seems like those planning to flee will be putting themselves at FARRR more risk than if they'd stayed their ground.

I'm also not sure apartment life is less safe than being in a house anymore. The benefit I see for people in apartments is that most are off ground level. Meaning they only have one single access point to defend (their front door). In a ground level house your defending every window and door in the place. Also being off ground level eliminates most flood damage risk. If your in an apartment building with only an elevator and single stairwell to access your floor. That's pretty much IDEAL as long as you have a balcony or roof access for a generator or to collect rain water, worst case scenario dump waste from.

Trying to think of the benefits in a private home over a higher up apartment and just not coming up with any except less risk of fire. If your up in a tenth floor apartment your nearly untouchable unless they crashing planes into every building. :shock:

Maybe the best prep is to actually be in a well stocked "deeeluxe apartment in the sky"!  Should we all be "Movin on up?"


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

No bugging out here. I looked at Google Earth. Everything I need or could ever need is within walking distance.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Staying put and defending the home front has always been my first option. It would be a matter of no choice before I pack up and flee. I can understand people living inner city might need other plans.


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

The point of prepping is preparedness is it not???

So the question then becomes is bugging out ever an option? 

I say yes. I say yes in the case of certain natural disasters. I also agree with the OP that during martial law it isn't the best of ideas. This leaves 2 windows for bugging out in that type of scenario. Either you bug out before martial law hits or you wait until it collapses as well.

Yeah we need to have preps at home. But some of us are geographically limited as to how much we can prep at home.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

The Hollywood version of world war Z isn't realistic at all, but it was entertainment. One scene comes to mind and I think it rings true. Shelter in and die, stay mobile and live. 

I have as good a bug out as any. I love it. I can sustain there even prosper and grow. Even better if SHTF comes to my remote bug out guess what....I can bug out from there and remain highly mobile and go even more remote. I can't stay awake 24x7, any thing is possible, but I believe I'm on top of events, things, activities and I prep for bugging out. I drill for for hitting the road in 20 minutes with everything needed and then some. I have studied my bug out routes to the extreme. I even know where it'd be safe to hold up if I must march on foot, can use a bike, or obtain a horse. If they lock down the city I'm in guess what...I know ways out. If hoards kill all that move I know when to stay still and when the hoards would dose off and allow me passage. I know I might only move for 90 or 180 minutes a day. 

Since I have a great BOL it only makes sense to take every free step (research is largely free) to figure out hiw to get there under as many circumstances as possible. 

After all that my wife drags me off for. 20 year anniversary to Ireland. We leave SFO thurs AM. No way SHTF happens next two weeks I forbid it!


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

Why does nobody talk about bugging _up_?


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## jandor123 (Oct 24, 2012)

split said:


> For some people the bug out is the only option. For example, people in cities, people in apartments... or people that in general have not prepped.
> 
> As a prepper, I believe bugging in is the only viable option.
> Here is a poll:
> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-talk/5383-you-prepping-bug-out.html


I have been exploring the option of a sailboat lately. Its the ultimate bugin/bugout option.

Guest Post: Sailing for Survival « ModernSurvivalOnline.com

True, it's a differnt lifestyle to live on a boat. But it can be done. ;-)


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The only thing I can see bugging out for is a category 3 or higher hurricane coming right for us. In that case we load the horses in the trailer, put the dogs in the two trucks and motivate. The horse trailer has 12 feet of living quarters in the front and we keep it stocked with non perishable provisions. The chickens would be left to hunker down and fend for themselves.
Anything other than a hurricane we stay put, right here on our dead end dirt road 6 miles outside a town of 2,000.
There are large timber company tracts all around but we have the two acres adjacent to the house cleared just in case of fires. There have been wild fires more than once in our area, right across the road from our property in fact, but all we have to do is keep the roof wet with garden hoses to keep hot embers from taking hold. If we had the cash we would go to a metal roof just for this reason.
We have food, water, and don't really need electricity except for the well pump. Got a generator for that and we would only need to run it 20-30 minutes a day to pump water and perhaps keep the refrigerator cool.
As long as the phones work we will have internet access to the outside for news, and if that fails we have CB's for short range comms and there's always the truck radio for news/weather. 
We are seriously investigating a HAM radio setup, perhaps a base station and a mobile.

We didn't get this way overnight, it took years of work and planning. But I do know this - I will never live inside town/city limits ever, ever again.
Cows make the best neighbors.:mrgreen:


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

jandor123 said:


> I have been exploring the option of a sailboat lately. Its the ultimate bugin/bugout option.
> 
> Guest Post: Sailing for Survival « ModernSurvivalOnline.com
> 
> True, it's a differnt lifestyle to live on a boat. But it can be done. ;-)


Living next to the ocean I've given it a ton of thought... Just to easy a target for every would be pirate and military ship that might pass by or pick you up on radar. Most fishing boats even have radar now. EVERYBODY will know where and what you are (a sitting duck). 

Any ocean going vessel with a single firearm on board is classified as a "Pirate" by the military and coast guard. = Prison time.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Leon said:


> Why does nobody talk about bugging _up_?


Because we really relate it more to sucking a bug up and no one likes that.


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## Themajorprepper (Oct 12, 2013)

Leon said:


> Why does nobody talk about bugging _up_?


Like to the mountains?


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

I think you guys are missing the point of buggin out I think bugging in only works for the short term. Bugging out lets me get outta dodge until the dust settles and I can plan my future from there otherwise you are the rock and the shit is the ocean now we sand, be the rock that moves inland.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

I think Leon raises an interesting point.

I recently moved from my dream BOL in the country to a Megapolis. I live in a ground floor apartment in a gated complex with three stories. In ordinary times, ground floors are better because move-in/move-out (especially if doing it solo) is much easier; and I do not have to ascend two flights of stairs lugging in groceries. But my windows and firearms are all that separates me from marauders, so bugging out - or bugging up - is my only option.

Bugging up to another apartment won't really work because families around me with young kids, and most of them are from Third World countries that cannot speak English as a second language. And nothing against people from India or Asia, but they are some little people from a physical stature standpoint - so them taking someone out with one swing might not happen...unless they are trained. These guys are all tech nerds. An inner city gang with members who have just been released from jails and prisons who spent the last three years working out in the exercise yards with free weights will go through them like men against children....

I plan to bug out. I'm renting, and anything I own worth having will fit into my car....

Right now, my plans have evolved to going to my employers five-story concrete and steel open-sided parking garage. Why?

Controlled entry points and stairwells make fatal funnels. Open sides mean unlimited visibility. Stairwells offer wind and rain shelter. Fireproof. Room to maneuver. High enough to see what is coming and control events with sufficient numbers to control entry points. Flood proof. Roof to keep rain off and offer shade. Reinforced compressed concrete for barrier to civilian projectiles. Flattop roof for extraction if a helicopter can be convinced to render aid. Could hold out for quite awhile if sufficient food, water and ammo on hand. At least able to last until order is restored.... I know how to fast rope and rappel, so getting trapped in less likely.

Also, martial law is way overblown. Go look at U.S. history for how many times martial law has been declared. Great for conspiracy theorists - not something to really lose sleep over in reality. 

State of emergency is a different issue; martial law (military takeover of civilian law enforcement functions) is such a rare event in our history that it is more an example of extremist thinking than real-world actual reality.... Just saying.

For me, now that country mouse is a city mouse - I'm going mobile and I am getting to open high ground.

That is assuming my watchful eyes and ears did not allow me to be out of the city long before it goes down.

And that is assuming a hell of a lot...because I plan to be long gone before Joe Sixpack knows what is about to happen.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

I think it all depends on your location. Many people are already where people in the big cities might think about bugging out to. There is a good chance that will be fatal to those bugging out.
I think you should have a destination to bug out to, if you don't you are probably better off to try and stay put in a defensive mode for as long as you can, then go nomadic and try to stay underground as much as possible. 
My bug out plans are really just bugging back home. I travel for work everyday, so if something ever happened I'd have to go over land for a hundred miles or so to get home where I would go defensive . I don't live in an urban environment. It's more medium sized town size. If everything went to hell I think I have a survive able position short term. Future plans are for a more rural remote location where I can bug out to that is long term survivable with everything one would need to not just survive, but live self sufficiently.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

My basic plan is to make a stand here where I have the most resources, but I'm not gonna stay here no matter what. If swarmed by a large enough group, I'll try to slip out and run for the short term. Nothing I have here is worth dying over. Yeah, if possible, I will try to come back and re-take the property, but i would rather flee than face almost certain death making an Alamo stand.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Bugging out is viable when the only other option available is death...


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Verteidiger said:


> I think Leon raises an interesting point.
> 
> I recently moved from my dream BOL in the country to a Megapolis. I live in a ground floor apartment in a gated complex with three stories. In ordinary times, ground floors are better because move-in/move-out (especially if doing it solo) is much easier; and I do not have to ascend two flights of stairs lugging in groceries. But my windows and firearms are all that separates me from marauders, so bugging out - or bugging up - is my only option.
> 
> ...


I see all this talk of how apartments are sooo much less secure than houses... _How?_ What am I not seeing here?

WOULD have been a great idea to move into a third floor or higher apartment if it were an option. I see absolutely no safer / more practical choice for the average person. Sure we'd all like a retired missile silo... But last I heard they were selling for over 10 million. Not so much "practical for the average person".


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Seneca said:


> Bugging out is viable when the only other option available is death...


EXACTLY my point in the thread. When _all else_ has failed. Sure, do it. But before that I hope _nobody_ endangers themselves thinking it's a safer choice.


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## MtnPapa (Oct 12, 2013)

I personally don't think its wise to limit your options. Bugging in is ideal, but if the situation escalates, either through crime or government, then being prepared with a Bug out bag, and a plan, is better than reacting out of desperation.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

BigCheeseStick said:


> EXACTLY my point in the thread. When _all else_ has failed. Sure, do it. But before that I hope _nobody_ endangers themselves thinking it's a safer choice.


I only agree to a point. If you have nowhere to go then you are better staying put. But if you have a sustainable secure location already lined up then you should bug out immediately if your current location isn't sustainable.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Arizona Infidel said:


> I only agree to a point. If you have nowhere to go then you are better staying put. But if you have a sustainable secure location already lined up then you should bug out immediately if your current location isn't sustainable.


If your current location isn't survivable, why wait? Bug out now and avoid the rush.

I'm in the process of doing this now. You either see the writing on the wall or you don't. I do.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> If your current location isn't survivable, why wait? Bug out now and avoid the rush.
> 
> I'm in the process of doing this now. You either see the writing on the wall or you don't. I do.


right. But some people can't do that for one reason or another.  for instance , my idea of what makes a good living situation would be a cabin in the mountains with a trout stream nearby and plenty of game and space to raise rabbits and chickens for food with plenty of elk to hunt. A good well ran off a windmill for an endless supply of water. And I don't really see a need for electricity or indoor plumbing necessarily, but I'm sure I could've talked into indoor plumbing. Now my wife on the other hand. Well, I don't think she'll go for that as anything other than a vacation cabin.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Just remember, if you are bugging out with no preplanned destination others who already live "out there" will most likely take a real dim view of outsiders trying to squat on their property.
And if your planned destination is a State or National Forest many others will be thinking the same way as you.

My wife and I were truely Blessed by The Lord to have everything line up to enable us to leave the overpopulated part of Florida and get to the country. His hand was surely guiding that. But we had to make the series of choices that were presented to us for it all to happen.
I took the job offer presented, and she stopped working a regular job to become the family farmer. 
We have no need to bug out. We are already here. You can do it too.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Ok, so you move from a ground floor apartment to one on the third or fifth floor. A fire is started in the stairwells - you have been caught in a trap of your own design. In a city that has lost its support personnel and the infrastructure that they require to do their jobs the last thing I would want to do is to go up into a no-retreat position. There is always a limit to how far up you can go and it is much harder to move to a safe position when you have no defense from fire or seismic events. At least if you head down you can always make your way back to the surface and get clear.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

PaulS said:


> Ok, so you move from a ground floor apartment to one on the third or fifth floor. A fire is started in the stairwells - you have been caught in a trap of your own design. In a city that has lost its support personnel and the infrastructure that they require to do their jobs the last thing I would want to do is to go up into a no-retreat position. There is always a limit to how far up you can go and it is much harder to move to a safe position when you have no defense from fire or seismic events. At least if you head down you can always make your way back to the surface and get clear.


Third or fifth floor = 30-50 feet from the ground. A 50' section of rope, and a couple pair of leather gloves, are cheap and easy to come by. Excellent point about NOT wanting to go over the fifth floor though. Below third would allow access to easily. So you've hit the sweet spot there. 

The SAS survival guide shows an excellent way to wrap a rope around your waste and leg for repelling and it only takes a second to do. Tried it, it works like a champ.

View attachment 2892


An added benefit of being in a third to fifth floor apartment is you can EASILY booby trap or even tear up stairs where anyone attempting to come up will alert you making noise. Any stair well is an easily controlled access point. And an elevator couldn't be more simple to disable even if there IS power to it.

Not to mention... I've never seen a Zombie to be much of a jumper (super bionic zombies from "World War Z" aside!).


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

So the city is burning and you are on the fifth floor....
Do you wait until the building next to you is on fire to leave? Do you wait until your building is on fire? And if the stair well has been lit on fire too, will you have time to get out of your building alive? Will your rope withstand the heat of a fire that is ten feet from you - can you withstand that heat?

It might be possible but you have totally limited your alternatives to two.


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