# Acceptable Casualties - The Elderly Or The Economy



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

This discussion was raised by Texas Lt Governor Dan Patrick this week. Acceptable casualties are a fact of life, whether acknowledged or not. It usually isn't spoken to with the exception of war strategies.

Should the priority be on saving all lives especially the elderly, or our grandchildren's economic future in this country? What say, you old Codgers?


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## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

Well now, I'm retired but I don't plan on going anywhere anytime soon so he can stick that approach where sunshine don't reach.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

I’d step out of the way for a better life for my children. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I’m old. My contribution to society is pretty much over and I don’t have anything on my bucket list. So I’m all for saving the country, but hopefully not to turn it over to the socialist nutjobs.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> This discussion was raised by Texas Lt Governor Dan Patrick this week. Acceptable casualties are a fact of life, whether acknowledged or not. It usually isn't spoken to with the exception of war strategies.
> 
> Should the priority be on saving all lives especially the elderly, or our grandchildren's economic future in this country? What say, you old Codgers?


As far as I'm concerned the elderly should be protected at all costs. They are the ones who actually shed blood for this country. The economy issues will heal itself when America starts making everything here again.


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

I'll be happy to go after Pelosi, Schummer, Cuomo, Feinstien, Casey, Biden, Warren, Clinton, Obama, Gore & Sanders. In that order !


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Save the country and the economy. I am 60 and not worried a bit. Living where I do, I have a better chance getting hit by an illegal rushing to pick up his free government check in a dump truck then dying of the China bug. I don't know that this thing will kill more then 30,000 or so out of 7.8 billion world wide, but it sure has hell killed the world wide economy.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Who lives who is allowed to die decisions are made far more often than you think . Using resource to keep a person alive another 6 months is wasted on false hope and often more is spent in the last few months of a person life than from birth to that point.
May piss some off but this virus still has not kill that many. The percentage of death is low.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

lets role play this (I am not advocating for either side) (How do you see them rolling out)

1. everybody goes back to work, illness spreads rapidly, deaths escalate, health care is rationed, riots start, looting.. economy screwed due to unrest


2. government passes massive worker bail out, illness spreads slowly, deaths trickle in, as the spread slows, economy grinds to a halt, businesses fail unemployment goes to north of 20%, charity giving is down because people struggle to take care of themselves, at the end of x time period illness deaths are less then option 1, economy is tanked, there is a lost generation of workers that will never have a job making any real money.. airlines struggle, buying a NEW car is hard for the lower income levels


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Demitri.14 said:


> I'll be happy to go after Pelosi, Schummer, Cuomo, Feinstien, Casey, Biden, Warren, Clinton, Obama, Gore & Sanders. In that order !


This needs to be said again, . . . and add that Tx governor to the list.

Economies come and economies go, . . . just like the monthly installment of Superman we used to get for a dime.

Sometimes we liked it and it made us happy, . . . other times we tossed it, . . . looking fwd to the next one.

The economy will come back to the liking of some, . . . dislike of others, . . . and "meh" to the rest.

Get this bug on the way out, . . . demonstrably, . . . THEN, go play golf and talk about your stocks.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> The percentage of death is low.


yes because the health care system has not been overwhelmed yet

took 67 days for the 1st 100,000 infected, 11 days to add another 100,000, 4 days to add another 100,000, *NOW they are saying it will start to double every 2 days!!!!*

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/23/coronavirus-who-warns-the-pandemic-is-accelerating/


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

The fact is your dead for one reason or another. At that point what difference does it make why. Wasting resources for 6 months maybe a year isn't the wisest decision, IMHO. I don't plan on eating oat meal, chitting my diaper while staring at the ceiling waiting.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> yes because the health care system has not been overwhelmed yet
> 
> took 67 days for the 1st 100,000 infected, 11 days to add another 100,000, 4 days to add another 100,000, *NOW they are saying it will start to double every 2 days!!!!*
> 
> https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/23/coronavirus-who-warns-the-pandemic-is-accelerating/


 Many more times that get the flu . People get sick it happens. Yes we need to take it serious but we also need to keep it in focus. Doing what is reasonable to avoid it . But if it comes it does . 
We have those in power saying million in US will die. I think they are full of crap.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> People get sick it happens


 YES, NOT SURE WHAT YOUR POINT IS HERE



Smitty901 said:


> Yes we need to take it serious but we also need to keep it in focus.


 what does that mean



Smitty901 said:


> Doing what is reasonable to avoid it


 what does that mean



Smitty901 said:


> But if it comes it does .


 wow



Smitty901 said:


> We have those in power saying million in US will die. I think they are full of crap.


 worse case if we did nothing and it ran its course quickly and overwhelmed the hospital system... at a .1% death rate we would see 23,000,000 deaths...lets say only 25% of americans caught it - that is still 5.9M deaths

1 day our deaths grew by 100 US coronavirus death toll grew by more than 100 on Monday as governors instituted even more rules 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/health/us-coronavirus-updates-monday/index.html


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Not necessarily taking a position one way or the other.. but there is some date out of Italy that is enlightening regarding the virus. My wife, on a global medical forum showed me the data and I'll try and post a link later. But to summarize, 99% of all virus deaths had underlining (comorbidity) conditions. Fully 50% had 3 or more conditions. The number of deaths with no underlying conditions was .08.

I don't think age was a factor in the study but usually those with underlying conditions are "older".

So this would suggest taking care of the people with the underlying conditions regardless of age. It would also suggest that if you keep yourself healthy in general you have a better chance of survival should you contract the virus.

Updated with link.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Piratesailor said:


> Not necessarily taking a position one way or the other.. but there is some date out of Italy that is enlightening regarding the virus. My wife, on a global medical forum showed me the data and I'll try and post a link later. But to summarize, 99% of all virus deaths had underlining (comorbidity) conditions. Fully 50% had 3 or more conditions. The number of deaths with no underlying conditions was .08.
> 
> I don't think age was a factor in the study but usually those with underlying conditions are "older".
> 
> So this would suggest taking care of the people with the underlying conditions regardless of age. It would also suggest that if you keep yourself healthy in general you have a better chance of survival should you contract the virus.


.08 x #of infected = a boat load


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Death panels! Now they are ok?

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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> .08 x #of infected = a boat load


You're mixing your numbers. .08 is the number of deaths with no underlying conditions not those infected. 3.4 ish is still the overall mortality rate and you'd need to apply the .08 to the number of deaths (3.4 rate).

.08 is not applied to the number of infected.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> yes because the health care system has not been overwhelmed yet
> 
> took 67 days for the 1st 100,000 infected, 11 days to add another 100,000, 4 days to add another 100,000, *NOW they are saying it will start to double every 2 days!!!!*
> 
> https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/23/coronavirus-who-warns-the-pandemic-is-accelerating/


It's gone from 300k to 400k today in two days. Tomorrow it will hit 500k.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mish said:


> Death panels! Now they are ok?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


No just a reality. Hey liberals never saw a baby they were not ok with killing. They send million helping do it. They just toss them in the trash.
My dad had cancer big time his entire body was being eat up. A strong man he could not get out of a chair. Doctors were clear he would die in less than 6 months. He had instruction to let him go. They brought him back when his heart shut down. Added many $1,000 in cost . He died a week latter. I have made my wish known when the time comes let me go. I have had a great run.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

God will decide when I leave this world, (I'll reserve the right to have at least a say in certain things but God and I are still working that part out!:vs_wave. 

Get government out of the way, they've mucked up way too many things and will continue. Major Muck-Ups they are.

While the government is busy getting their "candy" together to toss it out like a bunch of drunks on a Mardi Gras Float to watch the minions scrap for some dirty candy, they can write me a damn check for ...pick a number...50% of what I paid in for the last 43 years or so? 

When I get MY money back, I'll be happy. Until then I don't believe much of what they say. And I'll continue to watch what they do...because what they do is usually NOT what they say.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

The guidelines have already been released.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

hawgrider said:


> As far as I'm concerned the elderly should be protected at all costs. They are the ones who actually shed blood for this country. The economy issues will heal itself when America starts making everything here again.


I stand with this.

My parents are not collateral damage and neither is my wife who has diabetes. No matter what the government mandates, my job is to protect them.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

hawgrider said:


> As far as I'm concerned the elderly should be protected at all costs. They are the ones who actually shed blood for this country. The economy issues will heal itself when America starts making everything here again.


A to the Men on this one Hawg!

Listen politicians and listen well. Reduce the barriers to manufacturing in these United States and that will solve lots of problems.

To the pharkin bunch of evil tax payer funded politicians; Your blood is already on the hands of over 50 Million Dead Babies, killed by a knife funded by you evil sumbitches. NO MORE.

GET OUT THE WAY GUBMENT!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

ok, given the choice between a 75 year old with lung issues, weakened system, and a heart problem and a 19 year old with no underlying issues - Who gets the ventilator....

Triage is not based who fought during which war.. it is based on who will survive
--------------------

our best bet is to protect the elderly from getting it when the system is over loaded.... Then we do not have to worry about who is pushed to the side for service


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> ok, given the choice between a 75 year old with lung issues, weakened system, and a heart problem and a 19 year old with no underlying issues - Who gets the ventilator....
> 
> Triage is not based who fought during which war.. it is based on who will survive
> --------------------
> ...


Right on the money! Keep the elderly and the susceptible on lock-down. Take care of them. We need to take care of our own.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Did any of you guys get the Lifeboat" scenario thrown at you in school? You know, there's too many people. Who gets to stay on the boat and who gets pushed overboard? I feel like this is sort of it. It's like a war over in Italy. I hope it doesn't come to that here.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Denton said:


> Right on the money! Keep the elderly and the susceptible on lock-down. Take care of them. We need to take care of our own.


 This is what we are doing with grandma (mother in law) She is 88 beat breast cancer a short time ago. She is home on the farm hers is 3 miles from ours. We check on her by phone drop off what she needs. She is happy to be in her home . Her and her dog along with the barn cats that come to the door each day for food are all very happy right now.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

dwight55 said:


> Get this bug on the way out, . . . demonstrably, . . . THEN, go play golf and talk about your stocks.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


That sounds good and I agree with it but I don't think it's possible without a vaccine.

It has spread so much at this point that I see no way of stopping it. Practically every major business is considered essential now so people will come in contact with each other no matter how much you lock things down.

What can we do?


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

If there was a direct action that ensured a Grandparents sacrifice would save a grandchild, (ie wrestling the Bear while the grandchildren run to safety) then It's my opinion that most Grandparents would willingly perform such an action. But there is no such action to be taken against a virus. When the Grandparents survive 
a battle COVID19 and they have antibodies that can be infused via blood transfusions to the grandchildren & other Family Members, well that might be a Horse of a different color. JMHO.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

My parents are old but have been self quarantined since the mid 2000's. They have plenty of supplies and 16 acres. I expect they'll be fine. My gun nut nephew and prepper is 7 minutes away should they need anything. Some however, are not so fortunate and need insulation from all of this.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

i have practiced "social distancing" for several decades.
We don't go to parties, we don't visit with people in their homes, we don't go to the mall or movies. We don't go to bars, and eat out maybe twice a year.
If I'm not at work, or a veteran meeting, I'm home.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

in fact, for the last 25 years, the only people who know where we live are my neighbors, a friend of 50 years, and Inor, and Dwight.

Other than family, that is.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> i have practiced "social distancing" for several decades.
> We don't go to parties, we don't visit with people in their homes, we don't go to the mall or movies. We don't go to bars, and eat out maybe twice a year.
> If I'm not at work, or a veteran meeting, I'm home.


Same here, except the veteran meetings and the eating out.

There is little else I can do to protect myself or my family, and 24/7 news coverage is moronic. Yes, I know this is much more contagious than the flu. I'm not stupid; I understand that if this was handled like the flu the death count would be staggering. Still, there's got to be more to report than the KungFlu.


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

Denton said:


> Same here, except the veteran meetings and the eating out.
> 
> There is little else I can do to protect myself or my family, and 24/7 news coverage is moronic. Yes, I know this is much more contagious than the flu. I'm not stupid; I understand that if this was handled like the flu the death count would be staggering. Still, there's got to be more to report than the KungFlu.


Good to hear that this hasn't affected you & yours more than a News Story.

But it may be of more importance to others of us. Your in charge, so it's of no significance. Sorry we bothered Y'all.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Good to hear that this hasn't affected you & yours more than a News Story.
> 
> But it may be of more importance to others of us. Your in charge, so it's of no significance. Sorry we bothered Y'all.


Didn't say it is no significance. I'm just saying I'm doing all I can. After that, there's nothing more. No need for panic. No need in making it my main focus in life.


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

Sorry I chimed in. Yet in my newfound role as a caregiver my suffering spouse can't receive physical treatment because all the care centers have closed due to the virus. So she continues to deteriorate while I have no other role but to sit and watch due to my lack of professional training. It's moronic that we both sit idly watching the TV News awaiting the day that the care centers once again reopen. Sorry if it's of no importance to You & Yours. Hope Y'all don't Judge Us to hard...............................................................................................................................................................................................................


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Sorry I chimed in. Yet in my newfound role as a caregiver my suffering spouse can't receive physical treatment because all the care centers have closed due to the virus. So she continues to deteriorate while I have no other role but to sit and watch due to my lack of professional training. It's moronic that we both sit idly watching the TV News awaiting the day that the care centers once again reopen. Sorry if it's of no importance to You & Yours. Hope Y'all don't Judge Us to hard...............................................................................................................................................................................................................


Who do you think this is of no importance? You aren't still referring to me, are you?

As I've stated before, my parents and my wife aren't allowed to go to stores. I'll do that for everyone.
Gave my elderly parents N95 respirators for their doctors appointments. Sent the rest to my niece and her mother; they work at a hospital in northern Alabama that is running out of PPE.

Like rice paddy daddy, social distancing is not a problem for this misanthrope. I wash my hands and take other measures. I'm doing all I can do, so there is no reason to wring my hands.

That is what I am saying. If it were of no importance to me, would I take these measures?


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> .08 x #of infected = a boat load


Here is startling memo for you: We don't live forever. Death happens. Other life goes on. I was going to send you a singing telegram, but you know,...social distancing. :vs_wave:


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

stevekozak said:


> Here is startling memo for you: We don't live forever. Death happens. Other life goes on. I was going to send you a singing telegram, but you know,...social distancing. :vs_wave:


I prefer not to die because there were not enough medical devices...


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

You have washed your hands of this. About Et tu Brute, Neither of us have Parents left to contemplate.We are the both the last of the line. All our attention is focused on those that come after Us. Am I referring to you, No. Am I questioning your wisdom when consoleing our melenting granddaughter? Just what are you going to due when she looks to you to comfort her? 

Every step in life has its consequences, your perspective might change due to its time in the cycle of life. JMHO.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

??? Wtf?


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Chiefster23 said:


> ??? Wtf?


Dude's got a screw loose.


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

Chiefster23 said:


> ??? Wtf?


Add a few years and it shall change your perspective. JMHO.


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

stevekozak said:


> Dude's got a screw loose.


Can't conceive from a different perspective. Sorry for you. JMHO.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Re-read your post. You don’t make any sense. I’m beginning to think you don’t have any sense! Either that, or you are drunk.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Swimmer1 said:


> Can't conceive from a different perspective. Sorry for you. JMHO.


I hope you find the meds you clearly need, bro. I will pray for you.


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

Hope Y'all never need to make the decisions that Us Old Skool Folks have to deternmerine currently, since it's clear that Y'all are more important than those that come after you. But perhaps there shall never be any that come after you based on your decisions. Time shall tell of your wisdom or idiocy, so shall it be written so shall it be done. Hope Y'all find the meds that explain your failures to future generations. LOL


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Hope Y'all never need to make the decisions that Us Old Skool Folks have to deternmerine currently, since it's clear that Y'all are more important than those that come after you. But perhaps there shall never be any that come after you based on your decisions. Time shall tell of your wisdom or idiocy, so shall it be written so shall it be done. Hope Y'all find the meds that explain your failures to future generations. LOL


Put the cork back into the bottle, sign off and sleep it off.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> This discussion was raised by Texas Lt Governor Dan Patrick this week. Acceptable casualties are a fact of life, whether acknowledged or not. It usually isn't spoken to with the exception of war strategies.
> 
> Should the priority be on saving all lives especially the elderly, or our grandchildren's economic future in this country? What say, you old Codgers?


I'm no expert, but it seems the economy's shot no matter which way we go.

If we let it rip, the virus can go through the country fast, as in everyone gets sick pretty much at the same time. If we hunker down, keep away from crowds, etc, the virus will go more slowly, as in everyone gets it but over a longer period and not at the same time.

Let this virus rip through and everyone gets laid up at once and hospitals get overwhelmed and over-run. A lot of medical staff will get sick, too. My understanding is that the average cost of a hospital stay for covid 19 is north of 34k.

I think the best thing all 'round is for everyone to stay hunkered down. Let this thing run its course slow and steady.


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

Look at it from a further perspective and we can share a little time beside a bottle. Perhaps I'll be continuously sleeping before you can conceive of my perspective , and maybe you won't want to sleep it off? But I have no Parents neither does my Spouse to converse about such things. So once again your in charge and all knowing. But from my perspective, your a child that shall hopefully bury me, and take a pause to reflect upon my teachings not my wisdom. JMHO.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Look at it from a further perspective and we can share a little time beside a bottle. Perhaps I'll be continuously sleeping before you can conceive of my perspective , and maybe you won't want to sleep it off? But I have no Parents neither does my Spouse to converse about such things. So once again your in charge and all knowing. But from my perspective, your a child that shall hopefully bury me, and take a pause to reflect upon my teachings not my wisdom. JMHO.


Curious; how old are you?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Swimmer1 said:


> Look at it from a further perspective and we can share a little time beside a bottle. Perhaps I'll be continuously sleeping before you can conceive of my perspective , and maybe you won't want to sleep it off? But I have no Parents neither does my Spouse to converse about such things. So once again your in charge and all knowing. But from my perspective, your a child that shall hopefully bury me, and take a pause to reflect upon my teachings not my wisdom. JMHO.


My understanding is that in some of these countries, the dead aren't even being buried nor getting funerals. They have to cremate them and the crematoriums are running at an alarming pace. It's so sad.


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

I'm a little slow to answer these queries. 

I joined the Southeast Asian Conflict in 74, about the children and their Mothers Funerals I'm going to be a bit squeamish Annie. We are not going to converse about the Global aspect of Genocide if you can't describe your part in it to me without reservation. Just My Experienced Perspective.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> I'm a little slow to answer these queries.
> 
> I joined the Southeast Asian Conflict in 74, about the children and their Mothers Funerals I'm going to be a bit squeamish Annie. We are not going to converse about the Global aspect of Genocide if you can't describe your part in it to me without reservation. Just My Experienced Perspective.


Yup. You're older than me so I suppose someone around my age will be burying you, one day.

Now, think about it. You are old enough to know better than to throw wild punches at others unless you are drunk. If you are, sleep it off. In the morning, consider throwing away the bottle.


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

Denton said:


> Yup. You're older than me so I suppose someone around my age will be burying you, one day.
> 
> Now, think about it. You are old enough to know better than to throw wild punches at others unless you are drunk. If you are, sleep it off. In the morning, consider throwing away the bottle.


No, the children of my children shall bury me with an understanding reverence. Folks like you might have an understanding of the things that I actually did, but you shall be far and afraid to talk about things actually done. For years the VA have told folks like me that we are the generation of folks that America isn't proud of. We did what was needed to be done, and didn't care about America's approval. I'm quite sure that my Grandchildren won't have any knowledge of the things I've actually done, but they won't be squeamish of what it was that I needed to accomplish. But they may have questions about why I wasn't able to sleep beside Grandma without hurting her during the night. But your not able to answer any of these conflicts. Chime in whenever your qualified. JMHO.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Annie said:


> My understanding is that in some of these countries, the dead aren't even being buried nor getting funerals. They have to cremate them and the crematoriums are running at an alarming pace. It's so sad.


During the Spanish flu influenza, people were being buried in common graves, IF there was anyone available to even collect them from their homes after the passed. We can only pray it doesn't get that ugly.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Swimmer1 said:


> No, the children of my children shall bury me with an understanding reverence. Folks like you might have an understanding of the things that I actually did, but you shall be far and afraid to talk about things actually done. For years the VA have told folks like me that we are the generation of folks that America isn't proud of. We did what was needed to be done, and didn't care about America's approval. I'm quite sure that my Grandchildren won't have any knowledge of the things I've actually done, but they won't be squeamish of what it was that I needed to accomplish. But they may have questions about why I wasn't able to sleep beside Grandma without hurting her during the night. But your not able to answer any of these conflicts. Chime in whenever your qualified. JMHO.


Is your real name John Rambo?


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## OrneryOldBat (Feb 10, 2017)

I'd role play it this way. 

Numbers of infected climb exponentially over the next 3 weeks with a huge balloon when testing actually gets up and running. Then, the curve flattens for awhile as a result of the shut down. Maybe we get it isolated to a few hot spots, but unlikely. People go back to work and start buying things again and economy picks back up for awhile, then infections start to pick up with more stay at home, etc. Meanwhile, if we've finally have tests, masks, gloves and vents available, then we do a slow burn off and on for the next year or two. Because of the lack of PPE at the beginning, healthcare workers infected early in the curve start coming back with some immunity. It flares up periodically until we have a vaccine. Recession drags on for a couple of years, then back to business as usual, nothing learned by most people, but meanwhile, politicians have used the pandemic to grab some more power and loot. Lots of deaths. Lots of small businesses down the toilet.

I think we're going to end up with real socialized healthcare at the end of this, not the sketchy attempt at it that is Obamacare. All it will take is a critical mass of people touched by a medical-bill driven bankruptcy. I say this because mostly when people get laid off they lose their healthcare insurance (if they had any). And, because not many people have the kind of insurance that lets you walk away from 10 days in the ICU with anything but maybe your life. Lucky folks will be insured via a spouse or parent, but the insurance companies (which will likely get a bailout) will still screw them over in any way they can get away with. It won't matter that some countries national health is a shit show. They will point to countries where it was a success. The tipping point for healthcare reform has happened twice in my lifetime and both times it was triggered by insurance companies screwing over enough people to create a popular desire to string them up. 

tl;dr we're in the for the long haul


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

KUSA said:


> Is your real name John Rambo?


Since you have no concept of the Ravens or Phoenix Project I'll excuse your blatant ignorance. But it's hard to excuse your lack of Historical Competence. Child Please get a historical perspective prior to challenging me. JMHO.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> No, the children of my children shall bury me with an understanding reverence. Folks like you might have an understanding of the things that I actually did, but you shall be far and afraid to talk about things actually done. For years the VA have told folks like me that we are the generation of folks that America isn't proud of. We did what was needed to be done, and didn't care about America's approval. I'm quite sure that my Grandchildren won't have any knowledge of the things I've actually done, but they won't be squeamish of what it was that I needed to accomplish. But they may have questions about why I wasn't able to sleep beside Grandma without hurting her during the night. But your not able to answer any of these conflicts. Chime in whenever your qualified. JMHO.


Here's what I am seeing.

You are someone who doesn't know me or those who taught me. You don't know my company or my friends. You don't know my father, who was in Korea and then Vietnam.
You remind me of my wife's father. He was a Marine infantryman in Vietnam. Where he lives, vets are a novelty so everyone reveres him and he milks it. Where I live, there are so many of us that we tend to assume that anyone we meet is a Brother. Chest-beating isn't impressive to me, other vets or civilians.

You are drunk and railing at the world from this site. Tomorrow, you are going to wake up with a headache, read what you have posted and feel ashamed.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Since you have no concept of the Ravens or Phoenix Project I'll excuse your blatant ignorance. But it's hard to excuse your lack of Historical Competence. Child Please get a historical perspective prior to challenging me. JMHO.


Ever heard of Operation Butterfly? I used to drink coffee with Charlie Jones every morning before class started (He was the chairman of the Criminal Justice department).
Research him.
He'd never behave as you are.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Swimmer1 said:


> Since you have no concept of the Ravens or Phoenix Project I'll excuse your blatant ignorance. But it's hard to excuse your lack of Historical Competence. Child Please get a historical perspective prior to challenging me. JMHO.


You didn't answer my question.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> yes because the health care system has not been overwhelmed yet
> 
> took 67 days for the 1st 100,000 infected, 11 days to add another 100,000, 4 days to add another 100,000, *NOW they are saying it will start to double every 2 days!!!!*
> 
> ...


Using those numbers, we will all be dead in 60 days. Since you're using CNN's numbers, I think Hillary's quote is also important "At this point, what does it matter?"


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

OrneryOldBat said:


> I'd role play it this way.
> 
> Numbers of infected climb exponentially over the next 3 weeks with a huge balloon when testing actually gets up and running. Then, the curve flattens for awhile as a result of the shut down. Maybe we get it isolated to a few hot spots, but unlikely. People go back to work and start buying things again and economy picks back up for awhile, then infections start to pick up with more stay at home, etc. Meanwhile, if we've finally have tests, masks, gloves and vents available, then we do a slow burn off and on for the next year or two. Because of the lack of PPE at the beginning, healthcare workers infected early in the curve start coming back with some immunity. It flares up periodically until we have a vaccine. Recession drags on for a couple of years, then back to business as usual, nothing learned by most people, but meanwhile, politicians have used the pandemic to grab some more power and loot. Lots of deaths. Lots of small businesses down the toilet.
> 
> ...


Makes sense to me... except I dont know if they'd get away with re-issuing a stay home order for later hotspots. Once is enough would be my bet on public tolerance for that. Might be wrong; by then, who knows. FUBAR either way.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Since you have no concept of the Ravens or Phoenix Project I'll excuse your blatant ignorance. But it's hard to excuse your lack of Historical Competence. Child Please get a historical perspective prior to challenging me. JMHO.


Phoenix Program, not Project.
And it was over by the time you claim to have arrived in "Southeast Asia".


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

Denton said:


> Here's what I am seeing.
> 
> You are someone who doesn't know me or those who taught me. You don't know my company or my friends. You don't know my father, who was in Korea and then Vietnam.
> You remind me of my wife's father. He was a Marine infantryman in Vietnam. Where he lives, vets are a novelty so everyone reveres him and he milks it. Where I live, there are so many of us that we tend to assume that anyone we meet is a Brother. Chest-beating isn't impressive to me, other vets or civilians.
> ...


Perhaps we should meet face to face. 
I've come from a lineage of immigrants that earned their way into America because of thier service as Paratroopers in WWII. 
My Father was in Korea for 16 months and went from e1 to Platoon Sergeant in one night. 
So I'm thinking your eyesight is skewed.

My father was disappointed that I became a Navy Frogman. 
I'd love to introduce you to the servicemembers I started with, but I've had to listen to Taps as they were concentrated. 
I might be drunk, but no matter how much I drink facts are facts. If you actually think I'm going to be ashamed of my Family History, you are the one that's going to wake with a headache tomorrow. Want a challenge? From Americas First Day from those still serving. There is a Historical Reference that few can even conceive of. Every second of service from before America became to Today's service has been meet by one of my relatives. So I hope your hangover isn't to severe.

Sorry Denton, I ain't going to wake up with remorse. We can meet anytime anywhere and I'm going to wake up tomorrow and be proud of my American Heritage. Can you or Y'all say the same?


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Phoenix Program, not Project.
> And it was over by the time you claim to have arrived in "Southeast Asia".


Somehow you don't claim to have yeomans knowledge of this Project? This is an Army Conspiracy. There isn't a hint of Navy Compliance in any aspect of this Project. Why is it that you ain't requesting Navy Compliance in any form in this program?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Perhaps we should meet face to face.
> I've come from a lineage of immigrants that earned their way into America because of thier service as Paratroopers in WWII.
> My Father was in Korea for 16 months and went from e1 to Platoon Sergeant in one night.
> So I'm thinking your eyesight is skewed.
> ...


Yup, you are a drunk. You think you are the only one who served but seems rice paddy daddy done called you out on one point of your story. That makes your entire story questionable.
I don't need to meet you. You family history has nothing to do with anything, either. My family's military history goes back to the War of Northern Aggression. Read Charlie Beckwith's book and you'll see my uncle spoken about in it. UDT who served in Vietnam? One was a supervisor of mine. 160th? I know plenty of them. Hell, I knew a man who operated a flamethrower in the Pacific Theater in WWII. Physically, he survived, but the burning, screaming Japs haunted his dreams whenever he tried to sleep.

What am I saying? You are an icon in your own mind. The people to whom I've referred? They are different. They don't take to the internet to beat their chests.

Assuming, of course, that your faux pas with the Phoenix Program wasn't an indication that you are a case of stolen valor and not a confused drunk.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Somehow you don't claim to have yeomans knowledge of this Project? This is an Army Conspiracy. There isn't a hint of Navy Compliance in any aspect of this Project. Why is it that you ain't requesting Navy Compliance in any form in this program?


Awesome! Conspiracy! Now, we are talking my language! :tango_face_grin:


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## Swimmer1 (Sep 25, 2019)

Denton said:


> Yup, you are a drunk. You think you are the only one who served but seems rice paddy daddy done called you out on one point of your story. That makes your entire story questionable.
> I don't need to meet you. You family history has nothing to do with anything, either. My family's military history goes back to the War of Northern Aggression. Read Charlie Beckwith's book and you'll see my uncle spoken about in it. UDT who served in Vietnam? One was a supervisor of mine. 160th? I know plenty of them. Hell, I knew a man who operated a flamethrower in the Pacific Theater in WWII. Physically, he survived, but the burning, screaming Japs haunted his dreams whenever he tried to sleep.
> 
> What am I saying? You are an icon in your own mind. The people to whom I've referred? They are different. They don't take to the internet to beat their chests.
> ...


Assuming that you and RPD have never stepped foot on ground I've taken or hold, so if you actually what to make an ass out of you or me? RPD hasn't made that challenge. Are you sure you don't want to converse with him prior to challenging me? When it comes to the UDT, you are so out of your element that I refuse to embarrassment you on your own network. But if you wish, I shall do it by your own hand.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Swimmer1 said:


> Assuming that you and RPD have never stepped foot on ground I've taken or hold, so if you actually what to make an ass out of you or me? RPD hasn't made that challenge. Are you sure you don't want to converse with him prior to challenging me? When it comes to the UDT, you are so out of your element that I refuse to embarrassment you on your own network. But if you wish, I shall do it by your own hand.


You do nothing but brag and try to fight. You respond to nothing.

Never said I was UDT, in case you haven't bothered to focus enough to notice.

I don't care if you were UDT or just read about it. You are doing nothing but embarrassing yourself.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Sigh.
Denton, my friend, this alleged warrior is not worth our time.
It is 12:00 AM Eastern, I’m tired, going to bed.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Sigh.
> Denton, my friend, this alleged warrior is not worth our time.
> It is 12:00 AM Eastern, I'm tired, going to bed.


Good night.

I'll not go to bed until I put it to rest. He might not be here in the morning.


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## BamaDOC (Feb 5, 2020)

OrneryOldBat said:


> I'd role play it this way.
> 
> Numbers of infected climb exponentially over the next 3 weeks with a huge balloon when testing actually gets up and running. Then, the curve flattens for awhile as a result of the shut down. Maybe we get it isolated to a few hot spots, but unlikely. People go back to work and start buying things again and economy picks back up for awhile, then infections start to pick up with more stay at home, etc. Meanwhile, if we've finally have tests, masks, gloves and vents available, then we do a slow burn off and on for the next year or two. Because of the lack of PPE at the beginning, healthcare workers infected early in the curve start coming back with some immunity. It flares up periodically until we have a vaccine. Recession drags on for a couple of years, then back to business as usual, nothing learned by most people, but meanwhile, politicians have used the pandemic to grab some more power and loot. Lots of deaths. Lots of small businesses down the toilet.
> 
> ...


that's the scariest thing i've read today...
stopped reading the news today...
I've been so busy... I stopped going home this weekend... I've been exposed to over 20 positive pts...
a bunch of my coworkers are now sick and out...
they are telling us at the rate that we're getting sick... they may ask us to come back and work with a mask.. if we can tolerate it..
Even though I've been exposed to several 'high risk exposures' i have no symptoms... still feel fine.. so they wont test me..
not enough tests ...
we're running out of gloves.. masks.. and gowns... drugs.. and sanitizing wipes...
seems like every state is competing with each other for the same stuff... and the squeaky wheels (nyc, chicago, wash, cali, dc) wil lget all the national reserve stockpiles..
the number of sick keep accelerating...
Im not sure how much longer we can keep treating everyone...
in 2 weeks.. they may ask us to care for patients without protective equipment...
I knew I was going to get sick... .but I hope by then I'm not too worn down...
i'm gonna go to sleep.. I gotta be up in 5 hours...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

BamaDOC said:


> that's the scariest thing i've read today...
> stopped reading the news today...
> I've been so busy... I stopped going home this weekend... I've been exposed to over 20 positive pts...
> a bunch of my coworkers are now sick and out...
> ...


Good night, Doc.

You guys need to remember that sleeping deprivation reduces the immune system. You educated dumbasses seem to forget that y'all aren't immortal.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Balance. You have to help the elderly but people have to work too. I do not know about anyone else but there is only so long I can stay home and remain financially solvent. I do not think stores will accept IOU notes. Oh wait, they already do.... federal reserve notes. They just will refuse to take my personal ones.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> Balance. You have to help the elderly but people have to work too. I do not know about anyone else but there is only so long I can stay home and remain financially solvent. I do not think stores will accept IOU notes. Oh wait, they already do.... federal reserve notes. They just will refuse to take my personal ones.


I hear you and you are correct. Especially about the FRNs.
Still, I accept no casualties but my own life. Fight for them all.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> yes because the health care system has not been overwhelmed yet
> 
> took 67 days for the 1st 100,000 infected, 11 days to add another 100,000, 4 days to add another 100,000, *NOW they are saying it will start to double every 2 days!!!!*
> 
> https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/23/coronavirus-who-warns-the-pandemic-is-accelerating/


The above was posted 18 hours before this reply. 
The first post, 18 hours earlier, warned we had just broken 300,000. As I type this we are at 475,000 and rising.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

BamaDOC said:


> that's the scariest thing i've read today...
> stopped reading the news today...
> I've been so busy... I stopped going home this weekend... I've been exposed to over 20 positive pts...
> a bunch of my coworkers are now sick and out...
> ...


Good luck Doc!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Why is it so many have no problem killing a a baby . They are happy when it is done and have no problem profiting from it. But in a case where a person has no real chance of recovering, they have reached the end. Directing need services and resources to those with a chance is some how wrong. End of life heroic efforts are big profits for healthcare industry. That is why they do it. There is no downside to it for them.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

This thread has turned into a bad Eddy Murphy movie


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> This thread has turned into a bad Eddy Murphy movie


Well you wouldn't know because you ain't a karate man. "'...I'm a karate man, see! And a karate man bruises on the inside! They don't show their weakness. But you don't know that because you're a big Barry White looking mother...! :vs_lol:


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

paulag1955 said:


> During the Spanish flu influenza, people were being buried in common graves, IF there was anyone available to even collect them from their homes after the passed. We can only pray it doesn't get that ugly.


Ya know, today I have hope. Between this "new" malaria drug "Chloroquine Hydroxychloroquine" 

And now I'm hearing they're doing something from survivors of the virus: using blood donated from patients who've recovered.

We've got a lot of smart people in this country that are at work here. With a little American ingenuity, maybe we can stop this thing.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> Ya know, today I have hope. Between this "new" malaria drug "Chloroquine Hydroxychloroquine"
> 
> And now I'm hearing they're doing something from survivors of the virus: using blood donated from patients who've recovered.
> 
> We've got a lot of smart people in this country that are at work here. With a little American ingenuity, maybe we can stop this thing.


Hope? You have hope? You need to listen to our podcasts. Try out your gallows humor because we are doomed, so drink-up!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Denton said:


> Hope? You have hope? You need to listen to our podcasts. Try out your gallows humor because we are doomed, so drink-up!


Oh, I am behind on those; things have been krazy here. But you know I like those podcasts and will get on it asap!!!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Annie said:


> Ya know, today I have hope. Between this "new" malaria drug "Chloroquine Hydroxychloroquine"
> 
> And now I'm hearing they're doing something from survivors of the virus: using blood donated from patients who've recovered.
> 
> We've got a lot of smart people in this country that are at work here. With a little American ingenuity, maybe we can stop this thing.


 To bad the congress is more instead in getting cash to the Arts , Union officials and other pork liberal causes.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> To bad the congress is more instead in getting cash to the Arts , Union officials and other pork liberal causes.


I know, just don't let the bass-tards get you down. Keep prepping. Persistence is the key. :tango_face_wink:


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Smitty901 said:


> Why is it so many have no problem killing a a baby . They are happy when it is done and have no problem profiting from it. But in a case where a person has no real chance of recovering, they have reached the end. Directing need services and resources to those with a chance is some how wrong. End of life heroic efforts are big profits for healthcare industry. That is why they do it. There is no downside to it for them.


Actually, I think you'll find that the pro-abortion group is largely the same group that doesn't have a problem with elder euthanasia. If they pretend to care about grandma, it's only to score political points.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

paulag1955 said:


> Actually, I think you'll find that the pro-abortion group is largely the same group that doesn't have a problem with elder euthanasia. If they pretend to care about grandma, it's only to score political points.


Liberal do enjoy killing those they may have to help.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Smitty901 said:


> Liberal do enjoy killing those they may have to help.


Leaves more for them.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

paulag1955 said:


> Leaves more for them.


 Had to believe in High school I was on my way to law school . Life goal was to be a public defender and save the world from the man. There was no liberal cause I did not support. They pulled my scholarship and gave it to someone that never but a bit of effort into. My education started that day.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Smitty901 said:


> Had to believe in High school I was on my way to law school . Life goal was to be a public defender and save the world from the man. There was no liberal cause I did not support. They pulled my scholarship and gave it to someone that never but a bit of effort into. My education started that day.


I've never been liberal and I have managed to convert my husband over the course of 29 years.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Well I see that Swimmer1 Drowned..


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Deebo said:


> Well I see that Swimmer1 Drowned..


I think he drowned in his own ego.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I think he drowned in his own ego.


We led him out into deep water. His ego weighed him to the bottom.


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## T-Man 1066 (Jan 3, 2016)

Keyboard bas-ass in his own mind.


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## SRU Viper (Mar 17, 2020)

And here I was waiting for "Covey Leader" to come in and vouch for the swimmer. Oh well.


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