# Gun in a restaurant



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I was having dinner at the stake house and a guy with his family came in and sat across from me.
He was wearing a side arm. Boy did that make me feel good knowing that there was someone there to protect
me and everyone there. It also made me feel like I live in a free country-I don't feel that way to often.
When I was leaving we made eye contact he saw me checking out the gun,, I just said "Thanks"
He just smiled and went back to eating,, Some how he knew what I meant. 

The bad guys have guns how you going to offset that? ^ see above


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Open carry, what state?

Here in the Gunshine State we must carry concealed but with over a million CCW holders you're probably in "good" company most places you go!


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm in West- by god -Virginia 
One of the last non communist states


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

What happens when the nice guy sitting behind him figures out that the waitress brought him a well done steak instead of medium rare?!! He takes his steak knife and stabs gun guy in the neck. Then he steals his gun and starts shooting up the place. 
Feel safe now? Hope someone else has a gun so the can kill that guy.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Mish said:


> What happens when the nice guy sitting behind him figures out that the waitress brought him a well done steak instead of medium rare?!! He takes his steak knife and stabs gun guy in the neck. Then he steals his gun and starts shooting up the place.
> Feel safe now? Hope someone else has a gun so the can kill that guy.


And that is a great example of why, if FL ever allowed OC, I'd still elect to carry concealed.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

This guy looked like was aware of his surroundings.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Mish said:


> What happens when the nice guy sitting behind him figures out that the waitress brought him a well done steak instead of medium rare?!! He takes his steak knife and stabs gun guy in the neck. Then he steals his gun and starts shooting up the place.
> Feel safe now? Hope someone else has a gun so the can kill that guy.


 Wow you might be right!
That's why more good guys should carry a gun.

And yes I still do feel safer with a guy with a gun setting next to me 
gun free zones are a killing zone


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

budgetprepp-n said:


> This guy looked like was aware of his surroundings.


Blah! Hehe Was he a ninja? Because that guy behind him was pretty pissed off. I mean I can kinda understand. Who the hell eats a steak well done?!


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

budgetprepp-n said:


> This guy looked like was aware of his surroundings.


That's certainly a good thing to be but he's also going to be the primary target of bad guys. Not that it's necessarily "right" but I prefer to be discrete, maintain an element of surprise and keep a bullseye off my back. From your avatar I suspect you'll appreciate that back in the 80's my favorite muscle car was the LX 5.0 ... subtle power!


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## Reptilicus (Jan 4, 2014)

I always go concealed. No need to advertise and make yourself a target, plus you lose the element of surprise. If someone needs to know, they will know soon enough!!!


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

When I was in Florida, we had a second place in Georgia where we would stay a few weeks a month for work. It was just across the border. Georgia is also open carry and on occasion I would carry. I prefer to CC usually but on occasion, it is nice to be able to open carry if you WANT... 

Most bad guys when they walk into a place to rob it or whatever, unless they are a professional. They are not going to walk in and look at who's carrying. They rush in and do what they have to do. Not all but the majority will. 

Now, say you are walking down the street. I would rather open carry in that instance to show the bad guy on the corner that would normally just walk up and rob someone. If it is visible, odds are he wont mess with you, so you have avoided a confrontation. Even when they have a gun. They don't want to risk attacking someone that they see has a gun on them. That is just me though. I see both arguments.


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Being female I think even in an open carry state I would still carry concealed. Too many guys bigger than me.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

RE guns (usually multiple) in a restaurant.

Dad use to have an idea. Instead searching people for handguns getting on a plane, why not hand them a .45 with three bullets in it? He reasoned that a guy with a gun that only had three bullets wasn't going to take over an entire plane - especially if there were 200+ people on the plane all with a gun and three bullets of their own. That way you don't have to worry about who is and isn't armed - every one is armed and you know it. An armed society is a polite society.

The same could hold true for restaurants. There might be a guy with a gun in there but he only has 15 to 20 rounds and there are probably 5 to 10 other people OC or CCW with 15 to 20 rounds at their disposal. By the nature of most people choosing the right side and not the evil side, then you keep the balance of power on the peaceful end of the spectrum. That is the whole peace through superior fire-power theory.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I agree that concealed is the way to go,, But it's a choice that everyone should have right to. Like it or not. EVERYONE
Just like the guy that paints his house bright orange right next to yours. You may not like it but at the same time you
should be proud to live where people have the right to do things that others might not like. 

It's a silly little thing most people have forgotten. It's called freedom


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

It was a mass shooting at a Luby's restaurant in Texas that brought about our CC laws. There were multiple customers who complied with the law and left their firearms in their cars. It was immediately recognized that one armed citizen could have ended the rampage much more quickly and we had the right to CC very quickly.


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## taps50 (Sep 28, 2013)

This reminds me of a recent experience I had. I was out with a buddy, both carrying mine was concealed (most of the time I CC) my buddy was open carrying, we decided to go to a sports bar to grab lunch. We walked in past a "security guard", he either didn't notice or didn't care that my buddy was carrying, so we sat down ordered our food and waited until it arrived. I came and we started eating, then another "security guard" walked over and asked my buddy to please take his gun out to the car, at this point we were almost finished and about to ask for our check, the "security guard" claimed to be law enforcement, which I doubt, then started on me, as my buddy took his gun to the car, saying a bar isn't the place for a gun. Once he finished his little rant I asked him if he thought that I should also bring my firearm to the car, he looked surprised, then said yes. Which I did, even though I felt very uncomfortable doing because I didn't have my gun safe in my car. We quickly finished our meals, which I wouldn't have ordered had they told me to put my firearm in the car before my food arrived, and asked for our check at which point I informed my friend that I was going to tell this "security guard" that if they don't want firearms in the place of business they should put a sign stating so on the door, which they don't have I check before I enter any business. This kind of pissed me off, having to leave my firearm in my car is much more dangerous than having it on my side where I have complete control of it.


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## RogerD (Mar 31, 2014)

Reptilicus said:


> I always go concealed. No need to advertise and make yourself a target, plus you lose the element of surprise. If someone needs to know, they will know soon enough!!!


Agreed, here in Tennessee ours is a carry permit, can OC or CC. I prefer CC, but I'm old school and prefer to sit with my back to a wall facing the entrance door.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Mish said:


> What happens when the nice guy sitting behind him figures out that the waitress brought him a well done steak instead of medium rare?!! He takes his steak knife and stabs gun guy in the neck. Then he steals his gun and starts shooting up the place.
> Feel safe now? Hope someone else has a gun so the can kill that guy.


I know, right?

Guns are just evil.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Reptilicus said:


> I always go concealed. No need to advertise and make yourself a target, plus you lose the element of surprise. If someone needs to know, they will know soon enough!!!





inceptor said:


> I know, right?
> 
> Guns are just evil.


No guns aren't evil. I don't give a shit if you have a concealed weapon. I agree with Reptilicus. Why would you want to put a target on your back or your family?


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

taps50 said:


> This reminds me of a recent experience I had. I was out with a buddy, both carrying mine was concealed (most of the time I CC) my buddy was open carrying, we decided to go to a sports bar to grab lunch. We walked in past a "security guard", he either didn't notice or didn't care that my buddy was carrying, so we sat down ordered our food and waited until it arrived. I came and we started eating, then another "security guard" walked over and asked my buddy to please take his gun out to the car, at this point we were almost finished and about to ask for our check, the "security guard" claimed to be law enforcement, which I doubt, then started on me, as my buddy took his gun to the car, saying a bar isn't the place for a gun. Once he finished his little rant I asked him if he thought that I should also bring my firearm to the car, he looked surprised, then said yes. Which I did, even though I felt very uncomfortable doing because I didn't have my gun safe in my car. We quickly finished our meals, which I wouldn't have ordered had they told me to put my firearm in the car before my food arrived, and asked for our check at which point I informed my friend that I was going to tell this "security guard" that if they don't want firearms in the place of business they should put a sign stating so on the door, which they don't have I check before I enter any business. This kind of pissed me off, having to leave my firearm in my car is much more dangerous than having it on my side where I have complete control of it.


I'd have said nothing and remained armed. Out of sight, out of the SG's mind and you're still prepared.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Hemi45 said:


> And that is a great example of why, if FL ever allowed OC, I'd still elect to carry concealed.


I'm with you. I do not want to advertise to anyone that I own a firearm until and if the time comes when I need to use it.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Reptilicus said:


> I always go concealed. No need to advertise and make yourself a target, plus you lose the element of surprise. If someone needs to know, they will know soon enough!!!


Yep. When the bad guy learns aggrevated assault is wrong 124gr Speer Gold Dot will be his teacher.


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## ordnance21xx (Jan 29, 2014)

I hope South Carolina gets open carry. Fingers Crossed. 


MOLON LABE


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Mish said:


> Blah! Hehe Was he a ninja? Because that guy behind him was pretty pissed off. I mean I can kinda understand. Who the hell eats a steak well done?!


Me,I eat a steak well done.while carrying my concealed weapon,concealed.in a restaurant.anywhere in Michigan.we can carry concealed or open.as long as there are no NO WEAPONS signs.if there is a sign, I carry concealed anyway. after all, its CONCEALED.I am always aware of my surroundings,we sit in the rear of the restaurant with a wall behind me and, not near any doors.I only use knives on steak, game or whittlin,there is no use using a knife except when you have to.sometimes its hard to get the blood off your hands.having to be on immunosuppressants,I try not to deal with any blood.luckily,no one has ever ****ed around when we were eating at a restaurant because I dont like a-holes disturbing us, good for them because they would probably get lead poisoning there.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

I carry concealed simply because there are too many sheeple that would: complain to management, make stupid comments to me, call the police, scream and cry....you get the idea. I don't even worry about printing. Most sheeple are too unaware of their environment to even notice a weird wrinkle in a shirt.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

ordnance21xx said:


> I hope South Carolina gets open carry. Fingers Crossed.
> 
> MOLON LABE


Is OC specifically illegal in SC? I ask because here in NC our OC rules are based on court cases and historical common law precedents. We don't have a specific state law that allows OC. Neither do we have a specific law that bans OC.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Im honestly afraid every time I see a cop with a glock. I can't stop staring at it I get fixated. :/ I think these guys are more dangerous than ccers. Employed to look for trouble. 
There was a case locally where a cop lost control of his crown vic and wound up killing a 67 year old woman and seriously injuring her husband. Its reckless. They won't say who he was after.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Carrying OC is irritating, to me. Too many conversations with strangers. Do carpenters feel the need to strike up tool conversations when they see someone carrying a hammer?
Furthermore, I don't care if someone thinks there are better handguns than the Taurus weapons I like.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Pir8fan said:


> Is OC specifically illegal in SC? I ask because here in NC our OC rules are based on court cases and historical common law precedents. We don't have a specific state law that allows OC. Neither do we have a specific law that bans OC.


Technically, the law is not supposed to designate what *is* legal, only what is illegal.
If it isn't designated as illegal, by default, it's legal.
Though you may get to be the test case for when the sheeple want you arrested for not breaking the law. :-|


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Technically, the law is not supposed to designate what *is* legal, only what is illegal.
> If it isn't designated as illegal, by default, it's legal.
> Though you may get to be the test case for when the sheeple want you arrested for not breaking the law. :-|


The point was that NC has no specific legislation on OC. Certain sections of our state statutes do specifically mention what is legal with the general wording of "...this prohibition shall not apply to...." followed by a list of exemptions to the general prohibition.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Pir8fan said:


> The point was that NC has no specific legislation on OC. Certain sections of our state statutes do specifically mention what is legal with the general wording of "...this prohibition shall not apply to...." followed by a list of exemptions to the general prohibition.


Exemptions are not to define what is legal. They are to clarify what parts of the illegal act are exempt from prosecution.
An exemption is more like an ignoring of the law in certain circumstances. Not so much a granting of permission.
Imagine how much larger the law books would be if they had to define all the things we were allowed to do. :shock:
Though lately, it would probably be getting much thinner... :-/


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm not a fan of open carry but if somebody wants to carry open, go bonkers. I much prefer the art of blending in. I drive a nondescript plain-jane vehicle, I am a middle aged, big guy in cargo shorts and T shirt. Likely wearing some kind of football garb. You never see guys like me anywhere. I do carry one of several handguns, extra ammunition, a flashlight, handcuffs and the other usual stuff. I just don't want to draw attention.


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## Wallimiyama (Oct 18, 2012)

Mish said:


> What happens when the nice guy sitting behind him figures out that the waitress brought him a well done steak instead of medium rare?!! He takes his steak knife and stabs gun guy in the neck. Then he steals his gun and starts shooting up the place.
> Feel safe now? Hope someone else has a gun so the can kill that guy.


What if a meteor fell out of the sky and squashed the entire restaurant? Good grief...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I'm not a fan of open carry but if somebody wants to carry open, go bonkers. I much prefer the art of blending in. I drive a nondescript plain-jane vehicle, I am a middle aged, big guy in cargo shorts and T shirt. Likely wearing some kind of football garb. You never see guys like me anywhere. I do carry one of several handguns, extra ammunition, a flashlight, handcuffs and the other usual stuff. I just don't want to draw attention.


CCW? Check
Extra ammo? Check
Flashlight? Check
...
...
Handcuffs? Um... why?

We as armed citizens are not authorized to detain anyone against their will, regardless of the circumstances.
It is classified as kidnapping, regardless of whether the person harmed you, broke into your house, etc...
Please explain why you would carry a tool specifically designed for this purpose.
Perhaps I'm narrow-minded about it, and haven't thought of a valid reason for them.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Exemptions are not to define what is legal. They are to clarify what parts of the illegal act are exempt from prosecution.
> An exemption is more like an ignoring of the law in certain circumstances. Not so much a granting of permission.
> Imagine how much larger the law books would be if they had to define all the things we were allowed to do. :shock:
> Though lately, it would probably be getting much thinner... :-/


Whatever. Get over being a sideline lawyer. You're not proving anything positive about yourself nor are you impressing anyone with your supposed intelligence.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Pir8fan said:


> Whatever. Get over being a sideline lawyer. You're not proving anything positive about yourself nor are you impressing anyone with your supposed intelligence.


That wasn't my intention.
We are free people, and the day we start believing that our government gets to define to us what is legal is the day we lose our sovereignty.
I meant no offense, but I will often correct subtle things like this in order to keep people informed and knowledgeable about their roles as free and sovereign citizens.
Don't let them take that power away. Lord knows they try every day.


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## kirkstick (May 16, 2014)

From his user name, csi-tech, I would say he just might be a crime scene investigator, therefore LE, and would be required to carry cuffs along with badge (ID) and gun. If he's not LE then I would say that you are correct in your comments.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mish said:


> What happens when the nice guy sitting behind him figures out that the waitress brought him a well done steak instead of medium rare?!! He takes his steak knife and stabs gun guy in the neck. Then he steals his gun and starts shooting up the place.
> Feel safe now? Hope someone else has a gun so the can kill that guy.


 That type of thinking is often sighted , But in the real world never happens.
OC has always been legal in Wisconsin. However LE would try to sight you for disorderly conduct and make life tough on you in some areas.
Yes I often OC. And was OC-ing in the presences of Gov. Walker the day he signed Our CC law after 20 years of Democrats vetoing it.


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## Conundrum99 (Feb 16, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> CCW? Check
> Extra ammo? Check
> Flashlight? Check
> ...
> ...


I don't no about your state, but here in WV an citizen can make a citizen arrest and detain an individual if they are commenting a crime. We also have a castle law that allows you to stand your ground. The gentlemen who was OC in the restaurant was more then likely not alone in the state of WV has there were more than likely several CC eating diner also. I have been thanked by a local sub shop owner recognize my OC and tell me that they felt safe for the time I was eating. I have only had two minor altercation where there were negative comments about OC.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> CCW? Check
> Extra ammo? Check
> Flashlight? Check
> ...
> ...


 Break in to my house I am well with in the law to kill you right then and there. In this state the same applies in my car. If You put me in fear of my life I can kill you. If I must act to protect the life of another I can hold you or shoot you if need be.
Last if you are in the act of committing a crime I darn sure can detain you for LE.
Not sure where you live.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Break in to my house I am well with in the law to kill you right then and there. In this state the same applies in my car. If You put me in fear of my life I can kill you. If I must act to protect the life of another I can hold you or shoot you if need be.
> Last if you are in the act of committing a crime I darn sure can detain you for LE.
> Not sure where you live.


I made no argument against your right to defend yourself and your property. We all agree that is true.
However, your claim of being able to detain someone may not be based in law, but rather in opinion.
Before doing anything, read your state's statutes and be POSITIVE.



Old SF Guy said:


> Citizens arrests have different levels of authorizations of force across states so read up on what you can legally do.


^^^^
THIS... so much this.

Before you go claiming you have authority to perform a "citizens arrest", you better be absolutely sure you know what you're talking about from a legal standpoint.
Here in Texas, you cannot hold ANYONE against their will unless you are assisting an officer, and they have given you the authority to do it.
You can perform a "citizens arrest", but the second the person tries to leave, you must let them. Yes, it is ineffectual. But if you try to restrain them, you can be charged with Unlawful Restraint. There is no defense to prosecution based on the detained having commited a crime.
Too many people hear that phrase and think they have some authority to act against another human being in some special way. The truth is, often you don't.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

So, I hate the taste of crow, but feel I've just served myself up a big pile of it. I took my own advice and refreshed myself on Texas statutes concerning "citizen's arrest".
I did recall correctly that there is no defense to prosecution under Unlawful Restraint, but I found a preempting clause in another area of the law. Crimes are defined in the Penal Code, which is normally my first reference for what is illegal. However, this topic deals with another code, the Code of Criminal Procedures. What I found there was eye-opening.
It furns out that any person who actually witnessed a crime happen before them, and the crime would be a felony or disdupt the peace, can arrest the actor without warrant. However, I could not find the definition of an arrest to know what level of force it actually allows, but since this same statute applies to peace officers as well, it *could* mean just as much force as they could apply. A little more digging is needed to confirm.
For those interested, the statute is found in Article 14 of the Code of Criminal Procedure.

Bleh, that tasted awful.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Outdoor Forums mobile app


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> I made no argument against your right to defend yourself and your property. We all agree that is true.
> However, your claim of being able to detain someone may not be based in law, but rather in opinion.
> Before doing anything, read your state's statutes and be POSITIVE.
> 
> ...


 I do know the law in my State very well and it has been done many time of the years.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> CCW? Check
> Extra ammo? Check
> Flashlight? Check
> ...
> ...


Yeah... Something tells me that you guys carry cuffs for something totally different than me.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

And for those of you who don't know me better - that last one was a JOKE.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Of course it was ajoke, we know you would upgrade to the camo handcuffs.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

It is legal to stop and detain someone in the act of committing a felony - it is also legal to use all necessary force in doing so. At my age and in my condition that means I just shoot them first call the cops and let them call the coroners office. It is unwise to tell them that you know the perp is dead. Better to say you don't know and you aren't getting close enough to find out.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Detaining aka arrest of someone is one of those things just because you can may not be a good reason. Judgment needs to be made with a clear head.
Case in point a while back some young people detained a shoplifter. He resisted and died from an unintended choking.
They were let off but it was a long scary fight for them.

Ask your self what are the dangers of letting the person walk? You may need to ask your self this even in a self defense situation.
Gun drawn your may not be at much of a risk anymore maybe best to allow bad guy to walk let LE get him latter.
There were times we made that call in Iraq.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

In my state it has to be a felony in order for a citizen to make an arrest or detain them. If it turns out that it was not a felony you can be in big trouble. kidnapping in the 3rd degree is detaining someone against their will. It could cost you 10 years of your life plus a civil suit that will bankrupt you. If you don't know the law then you should not get involved. Robbery, rape, and kidnapping are all felonies - you can be fairly certain that a felony is in progress if the guy acting out has a gun but do not rush in because it might be a cop performing his duty. Be sure or don't act.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

please post a link to ALL the times an open carry person has been killed and their weapon taken!!!!

Your idea is closer to Hollywood than reality


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

PaulS said:


> If you don't know the law then you should not get involved.


I hope you are not the one in trouble and needing help...after all it is better for people to walk away right...

THIS IS THE PROBLEM TODAY....People do not want to get involved...

as the saying goes the only thing evil needs is for good men to do nothing....

My other reply to this "CRAP"


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

People don't go apeshit when they see a cop open carry, why should a law abiding citizen be viewed any different. If the people knew how inefficent cops really are they would probably run away any time they saw one. Especially if they saw how most shoot in a gun fight!


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