# NVD or Flashlight?



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

If you had both on the nightstand which one would you choose to investigate a suspicious noise at 2 am. A flashlight takes away the darkness and a night vision device lets you see through it. Both have their benefits.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

NO contest night vision. A flashlight says here I am.
Best yet Night Vision an a IR laser on your gun.

PS: Before someone says that if you have Night Vision on and they shine a light in your eyes it will temporarily bland you. That is only with older style NV. Modern NV you would be better off with it on and someone shined a light in your eyes as it will just attenuate the light that comes through.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

high powered flash light, better to avoid a confrontation at 2am than go commando on their arse, the flashlight can temporary blind a person (I'm talking secounds) if you need to defend yourself...

a surefire or led lenser attached to your firearm... then your laughing 

nvgs for defense, would be more useful with no rule of law, if your in court defending yourself after a confrontation, and it comes out that you used nvg to find the intruder... you can be up shit creek with a long prison sentence, but a touch... you gave them ample time to get away, and confronted them, and force was needed after confrontation... even in the nanny country you walk


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

pheniox17 said:


> high powered flash light, better to avoid a confrontation at 2am than go commando on their arse, the flashlight can temporary blind a person (I'm talking secounds) if you need to defend yourself...
> 
> a surefire or led lenser attached to your firearm... then your laughing
> 
> nvgs for defense, would be more useful with no rule of law, if your in court defending yourself after a confrontation, and it comes out that you used nvg to find the intruder... you can be up shit creek with a long prison sentence, but a touch... you gave them ample time to get away, and confronted them, and force was needed after confrontation... even in the nanny country you walk


Not sure what state you are in but in Ky if someone is walking around your house with a gun drawn they are already looked at as a deadly threat. This ideal of walking around with a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other is suicide in my opinion if you come up against an armed intruder or have to check outside.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Not sure what state you are in but in Ky if someone is walking around your house with a gun drawn they are already looked at as a deadly threat. This ideal of walking around with a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other is suicide in my opinion if you come up against an armed intruder or have to check outside.


Queensland, where if I kill a armed intruder I get lone of a shitty set of bracelets

if someone comes into your house with a gun drawn... (dose that actually happen in the states??) i would still go flashlight... the power to temp blind the intruder (very quick to point a light into a face) gives you the seconds u need to make life/death actions

for a test, goto a night rage, and try and shoot your gun on target with a fresh surefire touch pointed at your face, (hard to do safely you'll work it out) it's actually not very fun and can be quite painful...


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

oh if you can afford a good set of nvgs you can afford a quality touch


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

pheniox17 said:


> Queensland, where if I kill a armed intruder I get lone of a shitty set of bracelets
> 
> if someone comes into your house with a gun drawn... (dose that actually happen in the states??) i would still go flashlight... the power to temp blind the intruder (very quick to point a light into a face) gives you the seconds u need to make life/death actions
> 
> for a test, goto a night rage, and try and shoot your gun on target with a fresh surefire touch pointed at your face, (hard to do safely you'll work it out) it's actually not very fun and can be quite painful...


I guess I have to disagree if you shine a light in someone's eyes he can still shoot at where the light is coming from and I haven't actually heard of any cases of someone being stopped by a light. What if he shines a bright light in your eyes then you would be blinded unless you had Night Vision then it wouldn't make a bit of difference the light from the flash light would be blacked out. I just don't see how you being able to see the intruder and him not seeing you could not be a better situation.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

legal loophole... from premeditated murder to manslaughter... see the link??


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

oh you also missed my point about buying those needed seconds..

and ever wonder what flashbangs were designed for?? and how they are used?? a high quality light, yes is not a flashbang but your talking a home invasion where seconds count... both options I assumed your armed, so end result will be very similar, yet the charges/investigation will go along different routes, oh to add to it, (post shooting) the media gets hold of it (and it will) add the words night vision... and watch gun control go absolutely ballistic, pushing bans on.. you guessed it guns and nvgs....

it may seem black and white, it's not... I have always been trained to avoid a confrontation at all costs, with the ability to act if needed, using night vision your looking/assuming there is going to be a confrontation, almost like shoot first ask questions later...


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## Nathan Jefferson (May 11, 2013)

Flashlight, putting on my NVG takes too long and I don't keep it in my nightstand. I think my surefire is 200 lumens, that will blind you pretty good and it works well right next to my g34.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Given a choice, I would go with the NV, but it's time to be realistic. How much does the top of the line, most modern set of NV goggles cost? $5,000? Then there is the legal ramifications. There are gun-grabber Prosecutors who would try to bring charges against you that you somehow entrapped the "poor" victim, and then you have to worry about getting sued by his relatives. Would either one win? Probably not, BUT how much in legal fees would it cost you? 

Kind of getting off topic and ranting about getting screwed by the legal system for defending yourself. When it comes to it, forget the possible legal costs, defend yourself and family and hopefully the local officials aren't a-holes.


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## Vagabond (Jan 14, 2014)

Wouldn't the other person have a light too? Just grab something you have laying around nearby and follow the light. You know your home well enough to ambush, I'd hope, so even if you only have a pair of scissors or a #2 pencil, you should be able to get close enough silently enough to use the item you pick up. Would also be useful in the media that a perp with a firearm (if he had one on him) was taken down with a non weapon. Hopefully that person won't survive to press charges for harming them while working or something on that line, poor criminals have more rights than you. Trust me on that one.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Seems like it would take some time to don the nvgs and give them time to activate,I do keep a very bright Maglite XL50 nearby its really a pretty good ****in deathray for usd $25.00.though I would carry it if I had to investigate a bump in the night although,I know my home in the dark better than any burglar(s) ever would......


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

First, both NVD's and flashlights or weapon mounted lights both take training to use effectively. I'm not going to address the legal ramifications of either, since they vary so much from state to state, and country.

Top of the line NVD's are generally auto-gated, meaning in simple terms, they do not bloom or flare when hit by bright lights. But they do take time to put on, adjust and turn on, which if someone is in my house already, is time that I would not want to waste. I've done it hundreds of times and it still takes at least a minute or more to do it in the dark and not counting that I was just awakened and probably groggy. So not my first choice from a tactical standpoint.

A weapons mounted flashlight is much easier to use from the get go. Anyone who has a light mounted on a weapon, should have had training in its use. Proper light discipline will allow you to identify the threat, or if it is a threat to begin with. Most of the better weapons lights also have a strobe function. Getting hit with a strobe in the dark is disorienting at the very least, and debilitating for most. I've been hit with strobes at night during training, and it literally keeps me from being able to do much of anything against the person employing it. I might shoot back, but it can't be called aimed fire. This would be my second choice, IF you have trained, and I emphasize professional training here. And you also have to train periodically, or you will lose it.

A handheld flashlight would be my first choice if you have not received professional training, for the simple fact that under stress, it's better to be able to use a flashlight to identify the threat without having to point your pistol at whatever you are illuminating. Most quality flashlights now also feature strobes, so you can illuminate your target, identify it, and then decide if you need to engage. If my daughter decides to come home from college late one night and doesn't let us know beforehand, at least this way I'm not pointing a weapon at her when I light her up. She knows better, but then again, she's 18 and forgets a lot of things, like calling us and letting us know.

That's my best opinion,


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Not sure what state you are in but in Ky if someone is walking around your house with a gun drawn they are already looked at as a deadly threat. This ideal of walking around with a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other is suicide in my opinion if you come up against an armed intruder or have to check outside.


That's right, if they are in my home they are already looked at as a deadly threat and will be dispatched as such.. There is no such thing as a fair fight. A fair fight is when I have the upper hand. NV would prlly be the best choice but does take a little time to get on and adjusted. Then you have the fact of expense of them as well.

A nice flashlight will work pretty well but it will let the bad guy know you are around. Which takes away the upper hand aspect on my part which I don't like. You guys are forgetting an option. In my house I can pretty much see around in the dark on most nights. Most rooms have a dim nightlight and that helps too.

Although I guess I would want the flashlight to see exactly what I was going to shoot at if I needed. But I would only turn it on at the last minute..


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I was more interested in what one would use to check on a noise not so much as what they'd do about it. I assume most people already have a plan for dealing with a home invasion or burglar. Such as get everybody to a designated safe room lock the door call the police etc. 

As far as what went bump in the night, you probably won't know fore sure who or what made the noise until you check it out. It could be a stray cat or dog or wild animal such as a raccoon, which more often than not is the case. Myself, I'm not known for rushing into unknown situations, so my approach to investigating such things is one of quiet and caution until I can determine exactly what is going on. 

Either a NVD or Flashlight would work for the checking to see part, what one does or doesn't do about it is another matter entirely.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Seneca said:


> I was more interested in what one would use to check on a noise not so much as what they'd do about it. I assume most people already have a plan for dealing with a home invasion or burglar. Such as get everybody to a designated safe room lock the door call the police etc.
> 
> As far as what went bump in the night, you probably won't know fore sure who or what made the noise until you check it out. It could be a stray cat or dog or wild animal such as a raccoon, which more often than not is the case. Myself, I'm not known for rushing into unknown situations, so my approach to investigating such things is one of quiet and caution until I can determine exactly what is going on.
> 
> Either a NVD or Flashlight would work for the checking to see part, what one does or doesn't do about it is another matter entirely.


Night Vision again I can take a PVS-14 and scan a whole field in a second. If the moon is out it will almost be like looking outside in the daylight. Even with the most powerful flashlight you can only light up a small section at a time. Even if there isn't a moon out and it is totally dark you can use a small flashlight while looking through a nv device and since it can magnify the light up to 60,000 times it will light up an area mush larger then a powerful spot light would with out nv.


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Okay, simply if it's in the house it's a flashlight, outside would be my NVG's.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Ok, maybe I'll be called a pansy a$$ or something, but if I hear a strange noise that I think is an intruder, I grab my cell phone and call the LEOs. In the mean time, my wife will be grabbing her pistol and take cover while watching the door. I'll join her with my pistol and we'll wait for the LEOs to arrive. If it were and intruder, I have no idea where he's hiding. If he sees my flashlight, he one up on me in a big way. Even if we meet each other at the same moment, at my age, he's probably 2 up one me. or maybe even 3 up on me.


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

paraquack said:


> Ok, maybe I'll be called a pansy a$$ or something, but if I hear a strange noise that I think is an intruder, I grab my cell phone and call the LEOs. In the mean time, my wife will be grabbing her pistol and take cover while watching the door. I'll join her with my pistol and we'll wait for the LEOs to arrive. If it were and intruder, I have no idea where he's hiding. If he sees my flashlight, he one up on me in a big way. Even if we meet each other at the same moment, at my age, he's probably 2 up one me. or maybe even 3 up on me.


Sound advice Paraquack!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Both have advantages. a real high lune light used right will blind the subject long enough for you to act. Of not depending on who it is


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Irrelevant here at Slippy Lodge. My drones would have blasted the intruder to smithereens.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

It is not unheard of to have response time of the local SO at or about an hour. I'm checking it and the intruder will be easy to find as he will be going round and round with the Pitts until I get there.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The last situation I ever want to face is an armed intruder in my home. I would be angry and scared and armed with a 12 ga pump. Call 9-1-1 and report it requesting uniformed officers and that they use my name when they get to the door. I would probably go toward the middle of the house but if I found him I would give him the option of laying face down - spread eagle" until the cops came or both pieces laying in his blood until the coroner got there. I would be ready to shoot if threatened in any way.

I don't hide well and there are others to protect.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

If I KNEW there was an intruder I would go ahead and make the call to the police. Although, during a good time of year when the weather is good and the roads are dry and clear. It would take them at least an hour and a half to get here. Right now it would be about 2-3 hours to get here so we are on our own if something happens.. It's always good to have a plan just in case..


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Known intruder and not just a bump in the night? I would call 911 as well, partly so I have trained backup, and partly so that they can't accuse me later of not calling them so that I could commit an act of aggression. Some LEOs would expect you to come face to face with an intruder that had every intent on killing you or worse and still do nothing but call them. I'll invite them to the party, but I won't wait for them if they're late.

As for a bump in the night? Again I must be a poor sunuvabich, because night vision has never even been in the realm of affordability for me. If I had that much money there'd be an EOTech Hybrid on my AR and a McMillan on my 700... and extra rounds in the closet... but I digress, I know my house and yard pretty well so for the most part I move around in the dark until I need to shine the light on a source of noise.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I wouldn't expect the sheriff to get to my home for about two hours. He sometimes surprises me - I reported some damage and he was there in twenty minutes the last time. He said he was close by when the call came in. We have a decent relationship and I am on the "good guy list" so they know I can take care of most things myself and they won't have to search for an "unmarked grave" to solve the case. It is not unheard of to deal with a situation and put in a "new flower bed" in these parts.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

I think only first and maybe second generation is legal in Canada - like maybe old starlight not sure exactly.


Flashlights can be used for fishing and hunting (in SHTF) or if you are native.

They can be used to blind as mentioned, and they can be rigged to act as a stun baton (probably not legal in Canada)

They can be used for tactical strikes and swat flash systems if you are armed.


Overall though NVG may be useful for viewing people, much like a thermal IR system may be ok much like a motion detector.

I have a project to make a raspberrypi, goggle, webcam type sensor viewing system with some simple offset to provide location information, but need to put some effort into it, however I think I can get a fairly cheap computer automated sensor detection system with HUD. The legality is what I'm wondering are software aided systems viewing systems legal, that is, is it only hardware that directly electronically enhances that is illegal?

Can't do the good NVG systems up here, it is illegal.


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## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

Response time dramitically improves if you tell 911 op that you are about to shoot an intruder


retired guard said:


> It is not unheard of to have response time of the local SO at or about an hour. I'm checking it and the intruder will be easy to find as he will be going round and round with the Pitts until I get there.


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Will said:


> I think only first and maybe second generation is legal in Canada - like maybe old starlight not sure exactly.
> 
> Flashlights can be used for fishing and hunting (in SHTF) or if you are native.
> 
> ...


Just get a good flashlight, Will. And then learn how to use it in tactical situations.


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## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

Well what you know officer the SOB ran in my house and committed sucide in front of my family who can I sue for the mental anguish we suffered


pheniox17 said:


> Queensland, where if I kill a armed intruder I get lone of a shitty set of bracelets
> 
> if someone comes into your house with a gun drawn... (dose that actually happen in the states??) i would still go flashlight... the power to temp blind the intruder (very quick to point a light into a face) gives you the seconds u need to make life/death actions
> 
> for a test, goto a night rage, and try and shoot your gun on target with a fresh surefire touch pointed at your face, (hard to do safely you'll work it out) it's actually not very fun and can be quite painful...


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Why do hunters set up blinds? They want to surprise the prey. If I'm asleep in my house when the intruder enters, I AM the PREY if I get up and try to search the house. With my heart pounding in my temples because adrenaline is pouring into my blood stream and my brain foggy from sleep, if I'm periodically shining my light around, I am not going to be the hunter. Taking cover or concealment in my bedroom and waiting for the LEOs to arrive or for the intruder to leave, I feel the odds are much better that I'll see the sun come up in the morning. If the intruder is foolish enough the open the door to the bedroom, I still feel the odds are in my favor of seeing the morning sun. I'll have to check with my insurance carrier to see if they cover the cost of replacing the blood stained carpet at the door of my bedroom.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Paraquack

I agree with being prey, and that giving ones location away while being the prey is not a particularly good strategy for survival. 

I live in a rural area and things go bump in the night quite often. Maybe it's not such a good idea that I go investigate, yet I do...usually it's feral cat, stray dog, fox or coyote. Coyotes can be pretty bold, they'll come right up to the house when it's dark. 

I once had a wild bird and a feral cat in the garage they started knocking things off the shelves. Waking up to the sound of glass shattering in the garage and it'll get the ol' heart racing.


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## SoCal92057 (Apr 12, 2014)

In low light conditions and with sufficient distance between you and the target, a regular pair of binoculars is a great field expedient night vision device. The larger the objective lenses the better as they will gather and amplify the ambient light. Semper Fidelis


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> oh you also missed my point about buying those needed seconds..
> 
> and ever wonder what flashbangs were designed for?? and how they are used?? a high quality light, yes is not a flashbang but your talking a home invasion where seconds count... both options I assumed your armed, so end result will be very similar, yet the charges/investigation will go along different routes, oh to add to it, (post shooting) the media gets hold of it (and it will) add the words night vision... and watch gun control go absolutely ballistic, pushing bans on.. you guessed it guns and nvgs....
> 
> it may seem black and white, it's not... I have always been trained to avoid a confrontation at all costs, with the ability to act if needed, using night vision your looking/assuming there is going to be a confrontation, almost like shoot first ask questions later...


I agree with you in regards to your laws, Canada has similar laws. if the Cops found out I was stalking the intruder with NVG's and killed the SOB, I would now be the criminal, And probably face 10 years!


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Old SF Guy said:


> I say use the damn nods...Kill the bastard...put the Nods in a drawer and pull out the flashlight and then call the COPS...Simple solution....whose gonna know?


That's another idea too!


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> NO contest night vision. A flashlight says here I am.


Nuthin', and I mean NUTHIN says, "I'm here like a burst of fire in the darkness that follwos the flashlight.

Flashlights cost $5.00.
They know I'm coming out of the master bedroom any way because that's where the obscenities are flowing from.
A 911 call is free and gets your 5 to 15 minute envelope to start shrinking (if they aren't already in the area looking for the perp).
I own the upstairs with a kill-funnel at the stairwell. Take what they want from down stairs but the minute your foot hits that first tread, I will own the darkness and everything it consumes. Night night - Lights Out.


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