# violence during economic collapse?



## ghostman (Dec 11, 2014)

What I always wondered was when the collapse starts when will people start getting violent? I thought maybe a few weeks into it and then once the winter hits it will be 100 times worse.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

When they start running out of food and water. It will all depend on how quickly the collapse happens and when panic sets in. I see economic collapse as a fluid dynamic with many facets. This in, and of itself, won't lead to WROL, but could be one of the many dominoes that will lead to WROL. I also believe it will happen. More likely sooner then later.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

Inner Cities will be the starting point as the looting games will begin!


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Inner cities will be where it begins but will spread quickly. The inner cities will be a nightmare.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

With out a doubt it will be violent. Look what happens now if you even mention taking someone's free ride. Why do you think so many of us that are prepared are well armed?


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

violence will happen, better to keep you head down and stay away from it if you can. 
bugging in =stay in
bugging out=get the heck outta there like yesterday and don't expect anything left if you come back latter.
it's not how many guns you got or how many defensive positions you have it is how you use them is what counts.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

ghostman said:


> What I always wondered was when the collapse starts when will people start getting violent? I thought maybe a few weeks into it and then once the winter hits it will be 100 times worse.


Winter will be the best time for safety as long as...

you live in the country
gas is rationed or hard to get
roads are not plowed
You have a ready supply of Slippy Pikes


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

when people can no longer obtain the basics, it will become violent rapidly. The sharper and quicker the collapse ( it could be slow), the quicker the violence emerges. Wait until mobs or those at government house act on records or rumors of food stockpiles. Caches will be necessary.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

It will only take a couple days once the grocery stores are empty. Once it starts it will be quick and violent as people fight over the last scraps. Then turn on the known prepared neighbors. Scores will be settled and the violence will increase once people know the cops are no longer a threat. So know your enemies and neighbors, keep your mouth shut and lock and load.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Days, not weeks, would be my guess.


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## Wallimiyama (Oct 18, 2012)

My guess...within 24 hours after the EBT cards stop working, you won't want to be in a city without kevlar and lots of backup.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

ghostman said:


> What I always wondered was when *the collapse starts* when will people start getting violent? I thought maybe a few weeks into it and then once the winter hits it will be 100 times worse.


I don't think there is a single "the collapse" so to speak. There may be more than one type of collapse. For instance: a collapse in the stock market average may not necessarily cause inner city riots, but a collapse in food deliveries certainly would.

Other types of collapses include: international oil supply, the internet, the US dollar, collapse of confidence in the US political structure, national or international banking, collapse of foreign governments, etc. Each type of collapse may cause another in a domino chain, or may be isolated and contained by authorities and cause only temporary disturbance. It's complicated.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm sure all will be peaceful and orderly...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Let me lay out a few things

lots will depend on two major things TIMING and GAS

Timing will determine if people head south or not

gas will determine how far folks can go to raid and steal

If it happens in the fall we will see a rush of (city) people trying to go south. Because the power will go out and people do not want to be cold and this MAY save some city infrastructure

If it is spring or summer cities will be looted burned and destroyed and then the cockroaches will move out from there

Winter...no money no pay no plow.... southern states will see more looting in rural areas northern states will have less rural looting. I am reminded of an old song "A Country Boy Can Survive"

the year after will see a ton of illness and a third BIG die off

1st die off -starvation and murder 
2nd die off lack of medical and medicines..people dying from illness and also the crazies that no longer have drugs and murder 
3rd die off pandemic and murder


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Where I live near Tucson, city water will be gone in a matter of minutes. I expect panic and violence very quickly down here.


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## spirit_B_wild (Aug 9, 2015)

My uncle said something along these lines..."When SHTF, it'll splatter far and wide; and where there's no one to clean it up, it'll bring in the flies and maggots. You better have a fly swatter".


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

the elements my friends the elements will be the great equalizer.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

It will be days not weeks, that is for sure. Many people only have a day or so supply of food, and no supply of water.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

First people will get away with taking what is not theirs. 
Second people will get away with taking from smaller more owner operated businesses,
Third people will be away with taking directly from others 

In the three above I say "get away with" meaning there won't be LE to stop them, courts to try them, or jails to hold them. 

After that the chaos will dive in to rape and murder without ramification if the victim can't stop it.


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## hayden (Apr 30, 2012)

Slippy said:


> I'm sure all will be peaceful and orderly...


Just saw a black woman on one of the "News" shows who mentioned "When Mike Brown was murdered". Did I miss something? I thought Mike Brown was killed, not murdered.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

hayden said:


> Just saw a black woman on one of the "News" shows who mentioned "When Mike Brown was murdered". Did I miss something? I thought Mike Brown was killed, not murdered.


I saw some BS like that on the early am shows. Lil mike mike committed a crime when he assaulted another person who happened to be a Law Enforcement Officer with a firearm. His ignorant racist self was eliminated from both the gene pool and the earth.

Future generations are better off without Lil mike mike.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I just want to remind folks that in the act of pulling a trigger there is no inherent violence. All that violent stuff happens at the point of entry of the bullet. So, the person pulling the trigger is not the violent one.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

My guess is that there never will be a situation were the ETB cards will stop work. They can make as much money as they want, they are just numbers in a computer. The problem is more food/water/electricity. It is when those are unavaible that things get rough for the poor for real and the problems starts. Economic downturns dont matter that much, it dont affect them, they didnt lose anything because they did not have anything. 

Of course there might be such a senario were people get less money and there might be trouble, demonstrations, strikes, blockades and such. But those things come and go. But the real problems will start when there is not to go around, or the infrastructure breaks down and deleveries stops. Money? bah! As long as there is food/Water/Electricity - Life is good!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I do not see a fast crash, it is my opinion it will be a slow slide, like at present, but picking up some speed as it goes.
However, there could be something catastrophic like a foreign entity hacking our national electric grid. That would be devastating.
Or, more localized, like a Cat 5 hurricane or major earthquake, or (as anticipated) a major geological event at Yellowstone.

Bottom line - for those city dwellers or suburbanites there will be rough times. But for those who are fortunate enough to be right at home with Hank Jr's song above, we will be OK.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If Yellow stone were to go off in a big way - there have been small eruptions in the past - but if was like the major eruptions of the past it would be devastating. It would get very cold in the northern hemisphere over the span of about a year and it wold last between 3 and seven years. During that time we would have little sun, lots of ash (think Mt. St. Helens times 1000) and years of going from very cold to extremely cold. The folks in northern Montana would be cold in the summer!
No crops so food shortage, natural gas for heating would be rationed, oil reserves would be all but gone in a short time, and without the sun heating us there would be no solar and little wind. Where would we put the 8 feet of ash that covered the ground from ground zero to Maine and Florida? Even Europe would get a covering of ash.

Survivable? yes - but it would be hard.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I have read threads on other forums that speculate that Yellowstone erupting is a distinct possibility that is actually overdue. 
Granted, I usually don't put much stock in tin-foil hat type guys.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Nobody thought that old coot out there in the desert had half a brain for the 100 years it took him to build the boat.

But 7 days after Noah, Mrs. Noah, . . . and the other 6 got aboard, . . . for the very first time in all the earth, . . . water fell from the sky, . . . things changed rather rapidly.

I don't see any "Noah" syndrome going on right now, . . . but neither did most of the rest of the earth, . . . and it didn't take very long at all, . . . they were all gone.

I'm just trying to be prepared enough that I can last past the high water mark of whatever comes, . . . realizing I cannot prep for every eventuality, . . . but I'm taking a stab at having food, shelter, water, heat, ammo, . . . and my faith to get me through it.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> Nobody thought that old coot out there in the desert had half a brain for the 100 years it took him to build the boat.
> 
> But 7 days after Noah, Mrs. Noah, . . . and the other 6 got aboard, . . . for the very first time in all the earth, . . . water fell from the sky, . . . things changed rather rapidly.
> 
> ...


We need a LIKE + button so we can double like a post. Heck I might register under a new name just to like this again


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I ain't building no boat! even with the Lord's help I would screw it up and it would sink.
Besides a boat isn't going to be of any use when the stars fall to earth. (well maybe if it was made out of asbestos)


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have read threads on other forums that speculate that Yellowstone erupting is a distinct possibility that is actually overdue.
> Granted, I usually don't put much stock in tin-foil hat type guys.


I watched a special on Yellowstone erupting awhile back if memories serves correct, they said something like Yellowstone has erupted a few times in the past, about every 600 thousands years, and it's been 650,000 since the last one (please excuse if my numbers are off)


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Moonshinedave said:


> I watched a special on Yellowstone erupting awhile back if memories serves correct, they said something like Yellowstone has erupted a few times in the past, about every 600 thousands years, and it's been 650,000 since the last one (please excuse if my numbers are off)


Ahhhh, . . . what's 50,000 years between friends????

Every time I read one of those things, . . . I am (and this is not a slam against you, Moonshinedave....) always amazed at the talking heads who take that info to be gospel, gotta be on the money, couldn't be wrong, perfect info.

Just who is the old codger who has the calendar that has that marked in it? "Yellowstone eruped again, . . . Feb 31, 647,085 BC" ????

Where did they find the calendar marks on the stone lines, . . . "This line produced in 1,000,000 BC, . . . this one in 900,000 BC, . . . this is the youngster at 100,000 BC"????

Some dipstick postulated that in "his mind" it probably took "X" number of years for sand and gravel to deposit this depth, . . . and everyone has bought into it since, . . . using it as ammunition to attack the Bible and discredit the truth it states.

Like it or not, . . . there is absolutely zero evidence that can be "scientifically proven" that the earth and the whole solar system that we know is anything over about 8000 years.

In fact, . . . the best evidence we do have points pretty much to that number, . . . when Armstrong and company stepped off onto the moon, . . . the dust depth they found, corresponds to a similar depth of dust that would be scientifically found on earth from the outside universe.

OK, . . . off the soap box, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Did you stone your disobedient children Dwight?
Did you use your wife to pay your debts?
Do you stop to stone the prostitutes? 
Have you burned any Wiccans lately?

What happens to your ideas when we find life on other planets?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> Ahhhh, . . . what's 50,000 years between friends????
> 
> Every time I read one of those things, . . . I am (and this is not a slam against you, Moonshinedave....) always amazed at the talking heads who take that info to be gospel, gotta be on the money, couldn't be wrong, perfect info.
> 
> ...


Evidence is an interesting thing... I see the Evidence as showing a young earth...

and no good answers to questions I have

1. If all the layers were laid down over millions of years - how do we find trees going through several layers of coal

2. If the layers were laid down over millions of years why are there no erosion tracks

3. If the layers were laid down over millions of years - how are the layers bent without cracking

I think dwight is giving some people an extra 1,000 + years... I say 6,000 to 6,500


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

This change in topic might be worth its own thread? Interesting either way.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

PaulS said:


> What happens to your ideas if we find life on other planets?


actually all it does it move creation from one planet to another - but I doubt we will find life on another planet.


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## just mike (Jun 25, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> actually all it does it move creation from one planet to another - but I doubt we will find life on another planet.


What IF WE were the other planet????


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

just mike said:


> What IF WE were the other planet????


What if we were??? It would not change anything.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

PaulS said:


> Did you stone your disobedient children Dwight?
> Did you use your wife to pay your debts?
> Do you stop to stone the prostitutes?
> Have you burned any Wiccans lately?
> ...


Actually, . . . none of the above, . . . to your first 4 questions: Jesus Christ basically nixed those practices from the old testament.

As for question # 5, . . . the only life to be found on other planets, . . . will be whatever life form God placed there as well as here.

But for now, . . . the two answers that are viable: 1) we were made in the image of God, Himself, and His son came to this planet to die for our sins. Since he is the only son, . . . and could only die once, . . . that precludes the possibility at all, whatsoever, of humanoid, God-fearing creatures being found anywhere else. The second answer is of course related to the first, . . . there is nothing to preclude God from creating another life form, . . . reptilian for example, . . . with a similar if not further advanced scientific mind on some planet somewhere.

But back to your questions: you are a perfect example of today's talking heads of which I spoke. You offer no intelligent, cogent, educated, scientific answer, . . . therefore you have to change the subject to attempt to throw the conversation into another setting.

And if you are just playing the devil's advocate, . . . remember exactly who's advocate you are portraying.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

ghostman said:


> What I always wondered was when the collapse starts when will people start getting violent? I thought maybe a few weeks into it and then once the winter hits it will be 100 times worse.


1. Some people are already violent.
2. During the looting when people try to stop them.
3. After the looting when there is nothing else to take.
4. When they need something someone is willing to fight to keep.

If there is an event then crime could go up (but if the event is bad enough criminals may take a break from crime due to the general danger).
If there is shortages

5. When people can't go to work.
6. When police get overstreched, and they themselves become a regular target - WROL begins. However in the US this is when the national guard is called up, and martial law is put in place.
If martial law can't be done effectively by the guard the regular military institutes martial law.
7. If Vigilantism then picks up and a sort of local milita begins - I have no idea what could cause that level of government failure -as local evacuation would likely occur in event the military can't maintain order (and the constitution)

IF it is this bad then it is bad.

Of course there could be pockets most violence will occur between the Event Horizon and the national guard actually deploying. If the crisis is so bad US govt disolves good luck with that, you have bigger problems than local violence in a matter of days.

How long is a holiday - how long is a honeymoon?

How long until people get concerned their life isn't provided for anymore and they could die or be killed? That no longer the ships planes trucks and trains will deliver donut sprinkles and beer -

It is unthinkable that this could happen in the west.

It will ramp, but it will "cool down" people will learn not to go out.

Its really unthinkable though.

It will only really be noticable at the WROL point or when the military can't maintain order (if that can happen)

There are just too many scenarios.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If the Earth is less than 10000 years old, how old is the universe - It is part of that creation, is it not?


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Excused....what's 10,000 years or so between friends on a forum?



Moonshinedave said:


> I watched a special on Yellowstone erupting awhile back if memories serves correct, they said something like Yellowstone has erupted a few times in the past, about every 600 thousands years, and it's been 650,000 since the last one (please excuse if my numbers are off)


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

PaulS said:


> If the Earth is less than 10000 years old, how old is the universe - It is part of that creation, is it not?


The universe is the exact same age as the earth... about 6,000 years +- 1,000 give or take

all matter came into being at the same time... so everything is the same age


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

here is a great video on the age of the earth -


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## 2efgee (Aug 4, 2015)

The collapse could be completely non-violent until the two sides of your Earth-age debate ran into each other.

Violence during an economic collapse is inevitable. Inevitably violence will lead to some semblance of a police state, and rationing food and water. For a country without enemies, the people of that country might then be able to weather the collapse and expect to go back to the way things were before the event. The contempt and distrust of the people towards the police state would be expressed in the next generation of elected officials, they would be radically different from the right or the left that we know now. You can see this before and after our own depressions in America. But if the country has enemies, then you can expect one 'side' of the political spectrum or groups within either side would be easily subverted by radical groups (remember the Wall Street Bombings? American anarchists homegrown by French political refugees) causing mass confusion, picking of sides, etc. It could very well be the catalyst for a foreign-assisted civil war, or for a great new era of American politics should war be avoided. But if American economy falls, so will the economy of many other nations. No government wants to take responsibility for its own failing to diversify, so guess what country will take the blame?


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I will not argue the science against your faith. There is no chance that facts and evidence will change what you believe. I will point out that your belief, no matter how profound does not change the reality of what is.

Stars live for billions of years and our solar system has elements that could only come from a second generation star - making our solar system the third generation of stars in the universe. The fact that the universe is at least 13.5 billion years old and perhaps much older. (13.5 billion years based on the "visible" universe) The fact that we have witnessed the collapse of stars that are known to have existed for billions of years due to the chemistry and physics required in star formations, their lives and their deaths. The fact that there are black holes in the center of galaxies that are so massive it would have taken many billions of years for them to get to that size and that galaxies have and are colliding in unions that span billions of years to take place. I know that your faith has an "explanation" for all these things but there are times when blind faith and the science that govern these events disagree on the time line. The Bible is a book that was provided by the hand of God to teach us how to care for our spiritual lives and was never intended as a science reference on how the universe was made.

You fail to see that the physics and chemistry that govern the manner in which the universe and everything within it evolves was created by God to balance it. It brings balance and allows it to grow and change and provides an infinite realm of discovery for those intelligent enough to explore the possibilities.

I am in awe of your faith and yet I feel sorry that you miss the real gift of creation that has been given.
Still you are a gift of love from God and for that I honor you.


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