# LAPD deploys drug detection swab test at sobriety checkpoints



## Titan6

» LAPD deploys drug detection swab test at sobriety checkpoints Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Pretty Scary stuff going on....


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## scramble4a5

I wonder if they are even vaguely familiar with the fourth amendment.


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## PaulS

OH, you mean the one that is violated every day at airports around the country?


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## retired guard

I bet the Homos are glad it's illegal to swab for joy juice.


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## scramble4a5

Yeah, that one.


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## bigdogbuc

I can totally see this happening in California, just because it's California. However, I put little weight in Alex Jones; He's just too far gone for me.


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## PaulS

The Socialist Republik of Kalifornia has ignored the rights of individuals for a very long time. This is just another step in their impending doom.


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## Smitty901

scramble4a5 said:


> I wonder if they are even vaguely familiar with the fourth amendment.


 We have no Constitution any more. We have a document changed at will to fit political needs.
At one time no madder what party was in charge they appointed Judges that for the most part support the Constitution.
Of course it would change meanings from time to time . But for the most part those changes were not disregarding it.
Now what we have is a socialist hell bent on getting just 5 of the 9 so he can ram anything he wants down our throat.
He has two on the court now that will rule anyway he wants regardless of what the Constitution say.
Obama him self said the Constitution irrelevant. We have only a struggle for 5 of 9 any more.


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## PaulS

Smitty,
I have a copy of the constitution - in text format copied from the original text. If enough people have their own copy (I will share) the more likely it is that it will be used in the manner in which it was intended.

Her is one for you!


The United States Constitution

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty
to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution
for the United States of America.

Article I.

Sect. 1. All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a
Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and a House
of Representatives.

Sect. 2. The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members
chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the
Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for
Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the
age of twenty-five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United
States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that state in
which he shall be chosen.
Representative and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several
States which may be included within this Union, according to their
respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole
Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of
Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other Persons.
The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first
Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent
Term of ten Years in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number
of Representative shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each
state shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration
shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse
three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations one,
Connecticut five, New-York six, New-Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight,
Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North-Carolina five, South-
Carolina five, and Georgia three.
When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the
Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such
Vacancies.
The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other
Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

Sect. 3. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two
Senators from each State chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years
and each Senator shall have one Vote.
Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the first
election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes.
The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the
Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of
the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth
Year, so that one-third may be chosen every second Year; and if Vacancies
happen by Resignation, or otherwise during the Recess of the Legislature
of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until
the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies.
No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of
thirty years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who
shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall
be chosen.
The Vice-President of the United States shall be President of the
Senate, but shall have no Vote unless they be equally divided.
The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro
tempore, in the Absence of the Vice-President, or when he shall exercise
the Office of President of the United States.
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all impeachments. When
sitting for that purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the
President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside:
And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two-thirds of
the Members present.
Judgement in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to
removal from Office and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of
honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted
shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment
and Punishment, according to law.

Sect. 4. The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators
and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature
thereof: but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such
Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such
Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law
appoint a different Day.

Sect. 5. Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and
Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute
a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day,
and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such
Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.
Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its
Members for disorderly Behaviour, and with the Concurrence of two-thirds,
expel a Member.
Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to
time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their judgment
require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any
question shall, at the Desire of one-fifth of those Present be entered on
the Journal.
Neither House, during the Session of Congress shall, without the Consent
of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place
than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.

Sect. 6. The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation
for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury
of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and
Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at
the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from
the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either house, they shall not be
questioned in any other Place.
No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was
elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the
United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof
shall have been increased during such time; and no Person holding any
Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during
his Continuance in Office.

Sect. 7. All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of
Representative; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on
other Bills.
Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the
Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of
the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall
return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have
originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their journal, and
proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two-thirds of
that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with
the Objections, to the other House, by which is shall likewise be
reconsidered, and if approved by two-thirds of that House, it shall become
a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined
by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the
Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any
Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays
excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a
Law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their
Adjournment prevent its Return, in which case it shall not be a law.
Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate
and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of
Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and
before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being
disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two-thirds of the Senate and
House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations
prescribed in the Case of a Bill.

Sect. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence
and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and
Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.
To Borrow Money on the Credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States,
and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the
subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix
the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and
current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas,
and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules
concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no appropriation of Money to that Use
shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval
Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the
Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and
for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the
United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of
the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the
discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such
District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular
States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government
of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places
purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the States in which the
Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards,
and other needful Buildings; -And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department
or Officer thereof.

Sect. 9. The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the
States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited
by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight,
but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten
dollars for each Person.
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended,
unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may
require it.
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion
to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue
to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or
from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of
Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the
Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time
to time.
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no
Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without
the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, Office, or
Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

Sect. 10. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation;
grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make
any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any
Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of
Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or
Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for
executing its inspection Laws; and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts,
laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the
Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the
Revision and Controul of the Congress.
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage,
keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or
Compact with another state, or with a foreign Power, or engage in war, unless
actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.


Article II.

Sect. 1. The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the
United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of
four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same
term, be elected as follows
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may
direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and
Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no
Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit
under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot
for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the
same State with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the Persons
voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign
and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the
United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of
the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of
Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be
counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the
President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors
appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have
an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall
immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President: and if no Person
have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House
shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the president,
the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State
having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or
Members from two-thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States
shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the
President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors
shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have
equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.
The Congress may determine the Time of the chusing the Electors, and
the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same
throughout the United States.
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible
to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five
Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or his Death,
Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said
Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may
by Law provide for the case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability,
both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall
then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the
Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a
Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the
Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive
within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of
them.
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the
following Oath or Affirmation:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the
Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my
Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United
States."

Sect. 2.
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy
of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when
called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the
Opinion, in writing of the principal Officer in each of the executive
Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective
Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for
Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate,
to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senators present concur; and
he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate,
shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of
the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose
Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be
established by Law. But the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of
such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in
the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen
during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall
expire at the end of their next Session.

Sect. 3. He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of
the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures
as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary
Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of
Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may
adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive
Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws
be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the officers of the
United States.

Sect. 4. The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the
United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and
Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.


Article III.

Sect. 1. The judicial Power of the United States shall be vested in one
supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time
to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and
inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behavior, and shall,
at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation which shall not
be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Sect. 2.
The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising
under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and
Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;-to all Cases
affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers, and Consuls;-to all Cases
of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;-to Controversies to which the
United States shall be a Party;-to Controversies between two or more
States, between a State and Citizens of another State;-between Citizens of
different States, between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under
Grants of different States, and between a State or the Citizens thereof,
and foreign States, Citizens, or Subjects.
In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls,
and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have
original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the
supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact,
with such Exceptions and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury;
and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have
been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be
at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

Sect. 3. Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War
against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two
Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no
Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except
during the Life of the Person attained.


Article IV.

Sect. 1. Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the
public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And
the Congress may, by general Laws, prescribe the Manner in which such
Acts, Records, and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Sect. 2. The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and
Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who
shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand
of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up,
to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof,
escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation
therein, be discharged from such Service or Labor, but shall be delivered up
on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labor may be due.

Sect. 3. New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no
new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other
State, nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or
parts of States, without the Consent of the legislatures of the States
concerned as well as of the Congress.
The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and
Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the
United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so Construed as to
Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

Sect. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a
Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;
and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when
the legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.


Article V.

The Congress, whenever two-thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary,
shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of
the Legislatures of two-thirds of the several States, shall call a
Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be
valid, to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when
ratified by the Legislatures of three-fourths of the several States, or by
conventions in three-fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of
Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment
which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight
shall in any manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the ninth
section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent,
shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

 Article VI.

All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of
this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this
Constitution, as under the Confederation.

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which
shall be made in Pursuance thereof, and all Treaties made, or which shall
be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme
Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby,
any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary
notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the
several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of
the United States and of the several States, shall be bound, by Oath or
Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be
required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United
States.

Article VII.

The ratification of the conventions of nine States shall be sufficient
for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying
the Same.

DONE in Convention, by the Unanimous Consent of the States present, the
Seventeenth Day of September, in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven
hundred and eighty-seven, and of the Independence of the United States of
America the Twelfth In WITNESS whereof, We have hereunto subscribed our Names.

Attest:
William Jackson, Secretary
George Washington
President and deputy from Virginia

NEW HAMPSHIRE
John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman

MASSACHUSETTS
Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King

NEW YORK
Alexander Hamilton

NEW JERSEY
William Livingston
David Brearley
William Paterson
Jonathan Dayton

PENNSYLVANIA
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
Robert Morris
George Clymer
Thomas Fitzsimons
Jared Ingersoll
James Wilson
Gouverneur Morris

DELAWARE
George Read
Gunning Bedford, Jr.
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jacob Broom

MARYLAND
James McHenry
Dan of St. Thomas Jennifer
Daniel Carroll

VIRGINIA
John Blair
James Madison, Jr.

NORTH CAROLINA
William Blount
Richard Dobbs Spaight
Hugh Williamson

SOUTH CAROLINA
John Rutledge
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler

GEORGIA
William Few
Abraham Baldwin


AMENDMENTS

1st Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

2nd Amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed.

3rd Amendment
No Soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house, without
the consent of the Owner; nor in time of war, but in a manner to be
prescribed by law.

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
violated; and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported
by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
searched and the persons or things to be seized.

5th Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous,
crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in
cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in
actual service, in time of War, or public danger; nor shall any person be
subject, for the same offence, to be twice put in jeopardy of life or
limb; nor shall be compelled, in any criminal case, to be a witness
against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without
due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use,
without just compensation.

6th Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a
speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district
wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have
been previously ascertained by law; and to be informed of the nature and
cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him;
to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to
have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

7th Amendment
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed
twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved; and no
fact, tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the
United States than according to the rules of the common law.

8th Amendment
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor
cruel and unusual punishment inflicted.

9th Amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be
construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

10th Amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people.

11th Amendment
The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend
to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the
United States by citizens of another State or by citizens or subjects of
any foreign state.

12th Amendment
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by ballot
for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an
inhabitant of the same State with themselves; they shall name in their
ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the
person voted for as Vice-President; and they shall make distinct lists of
all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-
President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall
sign, and certify, and transmit, sealed, to the seat of the Government of
the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; the President
of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and the House of
Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be
counted;-the person having the greatest number of votes for President
shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number
of Electors appointed; and if no person have such a majority, then, from
the persons having the highest numbers, not exceeding three, on the list
of those voted for a President, the House of Representative shall choose
immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the
votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each State having
one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members
from two-thirds of the States, and a majority of all the States shall be
necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not
choose a President, whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them,
before the fourth day of March next following the Vice President shall
act as President, as in case of death, or other constitutional disability
of the President.-The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-
President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of
the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have a majority,
then, form the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose
the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds
of the whole number of Senators; a majority of the whole number shall be
necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the
office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the
United States.

13th Amendment

Sect. 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a
punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,
shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their
jurisdiction.

Sect. 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by
appropriate legislation.


14th Amendment

Sect. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and
subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and
of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law
which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United
States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or
property, without due process of law, nor deny any person within its
jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Sect. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States
according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of
persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to
vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice
President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive
and judicial officers of a State, or the members of the legislature
thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being
twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way
abridged, except for participation in rebellion or other crime, the basis
of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the
number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male
citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Sect. 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or
elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or
military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having
previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the
United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive
or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the
United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the
same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may,
by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Sect. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States,
authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and
bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not
be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume
or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion
against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of
any slave; but all such debts, obligations, and claims shall be held
illegal and void.

Sect. 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation,
the provisions of this article.


15th Amendment

Sect. 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be
denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of
race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Sect. 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate
legislation.


16th Amendment
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from
whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States
and without regard to any census or enumeration.


17th Amendment
The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from
each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator
shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the
qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the
State legislatures.
When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate,
the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to
fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may
empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointment until the
people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.
This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or
term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the
Constitution.


18th Amendment

Sect. 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture,
sale or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof
into, or the exportation thereof from the United
States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage
purposes is hereby prohibited.

Sect. 2. The Congress and the several States shall have concurrent power
to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Sect. 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified
as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the
several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years of the
date of the submission hereof to the States by Congress.


19th Amendment
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied
or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate
legislation.

20th Amendment

Sect. 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon
on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives
at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would
have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their
successors shall then begin.

Sect. 2. The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and
such meeting shall begin at noon on the 3d day of January, unless they
shall by law appoint a different day.

Sect. 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President,
the President-elect shall have died, the Vice President-elect
shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before
the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President-elect
shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President-elect shall act as
President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by
law provide for the case wherein neither a President-elect nor a Vice
President-elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as
President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and
such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President
shall have qualified.

Sect. 4. The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of
any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a
President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and
for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may
choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved
upon them.

Sect. 5. Sections 1 and 2 shall take effect on the 15th day of October
following the ratification of this article.

Sect. 6. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified
as an amendment to the Constitution by three-fourths of the
several States within seven years from the date of its submission.


21st Amendment

Sect. 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United
States is hereby repealed.

Sect. 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or
possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of
intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby
prohibited.

Sect. 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified
as an amendment to the Constitution by conventions in the several States, as
provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date
of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.


22nd Amendment

Sect. 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more
than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted
as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person
was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more
than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the
office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and
shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President,
or acting as President, during the term within which his Article becomes
operative from holding the office of President or acting as President
during the remainder of such term.

Sect. 2. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified
as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the
several states within seven years from the date of its submission to the States
by the Congress.


23rd Amendment

Sect. 1. The District constituting the seat of Government of the United States
shall appoint in such manner as the Congress may direct:
A number of electors of President and Vice President equal to the whole
number of Senators and Representative in Congress to which the District
would be entitled if it were a State, but in no event more than the least
populous State; they shall be considered, for the purposes of the election
of President and Vice President, to be electors appointed by a State; and
they shall meet in the District and perform such duties as provided by the
twelfth article of amendment.

Sect. 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate
legislation.


24th Amendment

Sect. 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any
primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors
for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in
Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any
State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

Sect. 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate
legislation.


25th Amendment

Sect. 1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his
death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Sect. 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice
President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take
office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Sect. 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore
of the Senate and the Speakers of the House of Representatives his written
declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his
office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the
contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President
as Acting President.

Sect. 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the
principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as
Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the
Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written
declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and
duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the
powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of
the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written
declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and
duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either
the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body
as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President
pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives
their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the
powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the
issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in
session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after Congress is
required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that
the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office,
the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting
President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of
his office.


26th Amendment

Sect. 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen
years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the
United States or by any State on account of age.

Sect. 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by
appropriate legislation.


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## Montana Rancher




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## Smitty901

The printed words are meaningless if 5 of the 9 change the meaning. That is all it takes. No act of congress no civil war.
5 of 9 and anything in the Constitution is changed on the spot. They can rule tomorrow the 2nd applies only to the Federal Government and it is done.
No appeal nothing . 
Election have consequence and we are paying for it.


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## inceptor

Ya know Paul, this is much easier to carry than a copy of your post.

Pocket Constitution (Text from the U.S. Bicentennial Commission Edition): Delegates of the Constitutional Convention: 9780880801447: Amazon.com: Books

I have this and it's an easy read/research book.


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## pheniox17

we have drug tests at our rbts to, its a good thing, when under the influence of drugs you're a danger on the road (I didn't read the article, I bet there is a reference to DNA tracking, or some other notion that getting druggos off the road is a bad thing...)


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## Meangreen

Montana Rancher said:


>


Creative Editting on the part of the creator of the video. Two things you're looking for drugs and illegal aliens and not a dumb idiot with a video camera. Montana rancher you should come on down to the border and talk to the ranchers down here and I think you would have a different take on this video and what is really going on down here on the southern border.

When I have had to work checkpoint in the past I want to get the USC's out of the way as quickly as possible so I can get the drugs and illegal aliens. By law I have to ask everyone the same question, "Can you please state your citizenship?" When I get an asshole like the guy in the video, the question I ask is "hey do you know what the Bill of rights and the US Constitution are?" They of course say Yes! I then say, " Hey great you must be a a US citizen, have a nice day!" They then of course go into a big rant about how they are being detained and I say "no you're detaining yourself, will you please go." THis of course doesn't make a good video and they go into more assholishness and I walk away and start talking the people in the vehicles behind them until they finally leave. I know what I'm looking for and these people are just wasting my time.


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## Smitty901

The issues is not getting drug user off the roads . They don't not give a dam about that. It is about eroding our rights .
Most if not all of these user have been busted or identified already. The system does nothing with them. Heck even when bust driving under the influence of a drug little if anything is done.
We do not have to forfeit our rights to be safe. That is a myth Socialist sell.


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## pheniox17

Smitty901 said:


> The issues is not getting drug user off the roads . They don't not give a dam about that. It is about eroding our rights .
> Most if not all of these user have been busted or identified already. The system does nothing with them. Heck even when bust driving under the influence of a drug little if anything is done.
> We do not have to forfeit our rights to be safe. That is a myth Socialist sell.


when the rdts came in here (random drug tests) they came under the same laws as high range drink driving, and (you are more than welcome to hate me for it) those pricks that drive impaired by alcohol or drugs need not only a good beating but a long stint in jail, those ****ers endanger you and your family's with no remorse, until they kill someone, it maybe a debate about rights... but what rights do you loose?? the right to drive under the influence of drugs so you can kill my family... like ****


----------



## Smitty901

pheniox17 said:


> when the rdts came in here (random drug tests) they came under the same laws as high range drink driving, and (you are more than welcome to hate me for it) those pricks that drive impaired by alcohol or drugs need not only a good beating but a long stint in jail, those ****ers endanger you and your family's with no remorse, until they kill someone, it maybe a debate about rights... but what rights do you loose?? the right to drive under the influence of drugs so you can kill my family... like ****


 I do not drink or use drugs at all.
The problem is these types of things do not stop it or even slow it down. They are released as quickly as they can get them out and they do it again and again. We see it all the time 6th 10 arrest . They flip off the system and do it again. Deal with the problem not the rest of us. 
I watched entire company in the Army test so they could justify catching one soldier. "has to be fair" .
Burn the user not the rest of us. Once LEO stops you there is no stopping him from doing what ever he wants.
We have a right to be left alone with out Probable cause.
So next we just come over walk around your house to make sure you are not doing anything the government don't like.
Driver with 3rd DWI kills 3, put the DA that let them walk along with the judge in jail.


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## pheniox17

all I can say there it needs to be pushed with harsher penalties... I support both rdt and rbt (you have a license to use the road, you are "trusted" (used very loosely) to obey the road rules, and should be happy to blow in the bag/lick a stick, so they catch the ****ers that shouldnt be on the road...

there is no way a test like this should be enforced on someone if they are at home (and haven't driven their car, in a matter to avoid the police) should allow themselves to be tested, as that's your right and you are not a danger to "me" (a member of the public), but on the roads your right to use a car on the road is based on your license, the "blue" preliminary tests they use are dumped, the other test, that's sent to the lab is a different matter...

you can wine about it to the cows come home, with the rising drug users in our society... they need to be taken of the roads...


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## Meangreen

To tell you the truth I don't like checkpoint in fact I hate them and I seem to overlook this because they are so damn effective at catching the bad guys.


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## jimb1972

The thing is you do not have a "right" to operate a motor vehicle, you have license. The government is able to make requirements and rules for the use of that license just the same as they do for airline pilots and railroad engineers. By driving you place yourself under the rules the government sees fit to pass to protect the public from you. Since driving is a privilege and not a right, if you don't like it don't drive.


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## Titan6

Before you shoot the messenger i would like to add this didn't make Fox, MSNBC or CNN Headlines....


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## pheniox17

Titan6 said:


> Before you shoot the messenger i would like to add this didn't make Fox, MSNBC or CNN Headlines....


::rambo::

seriously tho, something that can be used so well (roadside drug tests) not make mainstream news... that's strange... it promotes road safety...


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## Titan6

jimb1972 said:


> The thing is you do not have a "right" to operate a motor vehicle, you have license. The government is able to make requirements and rules for the use of that license just the same as they do for airline pilots and railroad engineers. By driving you place yourself under the rules the government sees fit to pass to protect the public from you. Since driving is a privilege and not a right, if you don't like it don't drive.


What about firearms I have to pay for license to have one and have to take courses to carry one yet its a right not a privilege.. <Devil Advocate Here> Pretty much everything I have to do for a privilege I have to do for a right I am suppose to have according to the constitution...as for checkpoints they are a control and normalize tool to get you use to showing your papers when the control freaks ask for them...Same with everyone wearing military uniform nowadays in Law enforcement.


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## pheniox17

Titan6 said:


> as for checkpoints they are a control and normalize tool to get you use to showing your papers when the control freaks ask for them...Same with everyone wearing military uniform nowadays in Law enforcement.


there is a huge difference between a police uniform and military, same as the roles of police and military, I do see your point, get people use to the idea of checkpoints, but a military checkpoint, is designed to inflict fear, wile a police checkpoint is designed to catch criminals, there is a fine line, but when you're looking down a barrel of a 50 cal machine gun, that's going to give you a much different feeling than seeing a set of red and blue lights.... unless the local.police employee such weapons, in that case leave your country ASAP (or start a rebellion) as the police have crossed their job description, to clarify, a police officers job is to "serve and protect" the military's job is "to protect against the enemies of the state" (you can add a lot of others here also but put SIMPLY, its the basic job description) there is a fine line, but that's why we have civilian police, and a military as separate organizations, the day the military acts as a policing force the line has been crossed, and civilians are enemies of the state..


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## Titan6

pheniox17 said:


> there is a huge difference between a police uniform and military, same as the roles of police and military, I do see your point, get people use to the idea of checkpoints, but a military checkpoint, is designed to inflict fear, wile a police checkpoint is designed to catch criminals, there is a fine line, but when you're looking down a barrel of a 50 cal machine gun, that's going to give you a much different feeling than seeing a set of red and blue lights.... unless the local.police employee such weapons, in that case leave your country ASAP (or start a rebellion) as the police have crossed their job description, to clarify, a police officers job is to "serve and protect" the military's job is "to protect against the enemies of the state" (you can add a lot of others here also but put SIMPLY, its the basic job description) there is a fine line, but that's why we have civilian police, and a military as separate organizations, the day the military acts as a policing force the line has been crossed, and civilians are enemies of the state..


Serve and Protect has turned into Control and Intimidate all in the name of protection my friend... I have been in both situations you described and its not needed in here at home...We don't need out of control law enforcement trampling on our rights or locking us up on suspicion for as long as they want...


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## pheniox17

titan6 said:


> .we don't need out of control law enforcement trampling on our rights or locking us up on suspicion for as long as they want...


agreed!!!! 120%


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## jimb1972

Titan6 said:


> What about firearms I have to pay for license to have one and have to take courses to carry one yet its a right not a privilege.. <Devil Advocate Here> Pretty much everything I have to do for a privilege I have to do for a right I am suppose to have according to the constitution...as for checkpoints they are a control and normalize tool to get you use to showing your papers when the control freaks ask for them...Same with everyone wearing military uniform nowadays in Law enforcement.


Most gun laws are unconstitutional, most driving laws are not.


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## Smitty901

jimb1972 said:


> Most gun laws are unconstitutional, most driving laws are not.


 A LEO officer without probable cause stopping me on the way home from church and sticking a swab in my mouth is Unconstitutional.
Walking ,driving or crawling don't madder.
LE needs to have a justifiable probable cause to mes with my coming and going


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## PaulS

We have a right to freely travel the highways, byways and postal routes of this nation unimpeded. We have a right to do the same with our property. My car is my property and the easiest way to transport that property is to drive it - in some cases it is illegal to push that vehicle or move it without the use of another vehicle. 

It is a law that one must stop at a roadside check point. There is no law that states that one must answer any questions. It is unlawful to detain a person without probable cause. If you haven't done anything wrong or at least been observed doing anything wrong then the LEO has no power to lawfully detain you. Most cops know this. Most cops will not bother to detain you under these situations. If they do attempt to detain you stay respectful, stay in your vehicle, and wait. If they use force then you should comply - court is the best place to fight their unlawful behavior. Civil suits do little to curb the response of bad LEOs but it does help pay for your inconvenience.


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## Denton

Years ago, I pulled over a vehicle that was clearly being operated by a driver under the influence. Problem was, my hand held intoxilyzer indicated no alcohol. He had nothing on him, and I had no way to prove his intoxication. I was directed to let him go. Fortunately, no accident followed behind.
I would have loved some sort of way to detect drugs.

Now, as far as road side spot checks, that comes really close to impeding on the 4th amendment. Yes, I am well aware of the differences between uniformed commercial code and constitutional law, and I know we operate motor vehicles under UCC and not constitutional law. Still, I believe an officer should have to have reason to believe I have violated before making contact with me.


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## PaulS

Denton,
Did you ask the "impaired" driver if he had any medical conditions? Both diabetes and hypoglycemia can cause a person to appear intoxicated. I am sure there are others but I know those two can.


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## Mike45

Their way around it is that driving a vehicle is not a constitutional right, the states grant people the privilege to drive-not the right. Im 50/50 on it myself, my stance is don’t drive high or drunk and you have absolutely nothing to worry about-a little common sense has to apply to situations like that.


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## Smitty901

So in the last 8 years we went from an act to help deal with terrorists to the NSA recording and copying dam near everyone calls and email .
NSA agents spying on the own wife and girl friends. Turning on peoples web cams. Holder supply weapons to Mexico .
The IRS being use to harass citizens . To LEO stopping you for no reason and taking swabs from your mouth . A president making law without congress........
Anyone else see things going down hill ?.
Yes you do have something to worry about I will explain.
Some years back in Milwaukee around 27th and National ave. There was a heavy drug and sex trade problem. COP mayor decide to arrest customers not the hookers and dealers.
They setup decoys and stings in the area, pretty much if during their hours you drove any where near there you were stopped.
Your name taken the whole 9 yards . It did not madder what you were doing or why you were there. Cars stripped on and on.
Some time latter a news paper got a list of the names of everyone stopped. Those names were made public.
Most of these people were on there way to work, but they were stop many times. Never convicted or changed with a crime.
Public records show they were stopped 2,3,4 or more times in a Prostitution,Drug sting. No way to clear their name not a thing they can do about it. Explain that to your wife.
If you are stopped by LE for any reason it is recorded and you can never make that go away. You will never prove a negative.
I was not doing anything. Really then why were you stopped , heard that one before.
LE needs a probable cause driving is not probable cause not having lights on after dark is,crossing center line, ect is.
LE that can use a phony public safety to stop anyone they want and swab their mouth is a crime in it's self.
I have been stopped in Milwaukee and Racine area late night early morning on my bike more than I can count. Bright flash light in my eyes how much you been drinking boy.
Never once breaking a law. Treated like a criminal had my stuff rummaged through. Then have a LE tell me I've seen this name before .Yea on your phony stop records.


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## sparkyprep

Smitty901 said:


> So in the last 8 years we went from an act to help deal with terrorists to the NSA recording and copying dam near everyone calls and email .
> NSA agents spying on the own wife and girl friends. Turning on peoples web cams. Holder supply weapons to Mexico .
> The IRS being use to harass citizens . To LEO stopping you for no reason and taking swabs from your mouth . A president making law without congress........
> Anyone else see things going down hill ?.


I'm with ya Smitty


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## Mic

I thought the last one was pretty hilarious. Pull up...Are you an American citizen? Do you have an ID? Where were you today? Priceless!!!


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## Smitty901

I get a bit hot about this subject. I think drunk and drugged drivers should rot in jail . But they don't. Just not how it works. We just had a kid kill people judge let him walk. Local DA few months back 3rd drunk driving conviction, let the guy walk he was a big shot in the Democrat party.
I dealt many times with COP and soldiers issue that came up. Some times the soldier was wrong. Often arresting the soldiers was the easy way out for LE.
When you sit face to face with a LE and or COP and they tell you the soldier did nothing wrong but someone had to be arrested . Had to make it look good for the public had to defuse things. You tend to lose faith in the system.


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## Denton

PaulS said:


> Denton,
> Did you ask the "impaired" driver if he had any medical conditions? Both diabetes and hypoglycemia can cause a person to appear intoxicated. I am sure there are others but I know those two can.


Paul, do you think I am a moron who didn't know how to do his job and couldn't judge the situation for what it was? Give me a break. I knew exactly what he was on (pot) but we had no roadside test for that in the mid 80's.

You've never worked the road, apparently. Otherwise, you'd not be asking me such a question.

I was one of the good guys. :razz:


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## pheniox17

respond to a faital traffic accident, involving children, and the driver at fault was under the influence of some high grade drugs, you will quickly change your tune when you put a sheet over a child...


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## pheniox17

Denton said:


> I was one of the good guys. :razz:


with a standard issue phonebook I hope


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## Denton

pheniox17 said:


> respond to a faital traffic accident, involving children, and the driver at fault was under the influence of some high grade drugs, you will quickly change your tune when you put a sheet over a child...


Nope, not at all. The same line of reasoning is what the anti-gunners use regarding gun control.

That someone might be drinking and driving, or drugging and driving, is not reason to stop and inspect all drivers on a road.


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## pheniox17

Denton said:


> Nope, not at all. The same line of reasoning is what the anti-gunners use regarding gun control.
> 
> That someone might be drinking and driving, or drugging and driving, is not reason to stop and inspect all drivers on a road.


(
with gun control, that reasoning is bogus, as it's bad guys with guns doing the damage.... and taking guns of people won't sort the problem (like taking cars of everyone won't solve a drug driving problem) and from what I have gathered from you guys USA firearm laws are reasonably balanced, maybe need a little "modification" but it's so slight it's not with fixing (aren't broke, why fix it)

and the longest rbt I have been subjected to, took a couple of minutes, and they do release numbers, and it's a good trend to keep track of... (when they do a road blitz, and the numbers say out of 10000 tests only 5 were arrested, its gives a false feeling of safety, when you see 500+ we're arrested in the same numbers, the only thought is good job)

but take note, drug tests are expensive, so they won't do many, but when they do, look at the numbers, it will scare the shit out of you... and most know it's bad, but simply don't care, it's like comparing apple's to oranges, more deaths occur from drunk drivers than firearms...


----------



## Denton

pheniox17 said:


> (
> with gun control, that reasoning is bogus, as it's bad guys with guns doing the damage.... and taking guns of people won't sort the problem (like taking cars of everyone won't solve a drug driving problem) and from what I have gathered from you guys USA firearm laws are reasonably balanced, maybe need a little "modification" but it's so slight it's not with fixing (aren't broke, why fix it)
> 
> and the longest rbt I have been subjected to, took a couple of minutes, and they do release numbers, and it's a good trend to keep track of... (when they do a road blitz, and the numbers say out of 10000 tests only 5 were arrested, its gives a false feeling of safety, when you see 500+ we're arrested in the same numbers, the only thought is good job)
> 
> but take note, drug tests are expensive, so they won't do many, but when they do, look at the numbers, it will scare the shit out of you... and most know it's bad, but simply don't care, it's like comparing apple's to oranges, more deaths occur from drunk drivers than firearms...


Not saying the comparison is there, just saying the same argument is made.

I am well aware of the number of stupid people out there. Heck, if only we could get people not to text and drive. Still, we should do things differently in this country. That someone might be doing something wrong, as I said, is not sufficient reason to stop every traveler and see if he is one of them. Here, a cop shouldn't make contact with the citizen until he has reasonable suspicion, and stopping someone to see if they will offer that suspicion is not the right way of doing things.


----------



## pheniox17

I doubt we can both see eye to eye on this, (and that's a good thing) we both hopefully agree it's going to be a brilliant tool for law enforcement... 

it's use in a planned roadside booze bust, we can't agree on (the fact they go to lengths to set up and pull over everyone indiscriminately) but such is life, I don't recommend refusing a test if they pull you over for one tho, it will put you in deep shit...


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## rice paddy daddy

Did anyone READ the posted article, or just base all your assumptions on the headline?
The article clearly states that the mouth swab is completely voluntary, consent must be given.


----------



## pheniox17

rice paddy daddy said:


> Did anyone READ the posted article, or just base all your assumptions on the headline?
> The article clearly states that the mouth swab is completely voluntary, consent must be given.


nope didn't read it, based responses on how it is here... (Queensland Australia, I think all Australian states do it now)

but if you refuse a drug test, won't they have the power to arrest you for suspicion of driving under the influence??


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## Meangreen

Definitely a heated debate! I don't like checkpoints and another topic is who funds the checkpoints. Look in your local area and I think you will be surprised that a lot of the funding to open a checkpoint like a sobriety or compliance checkpoint doesn't come from just the tax payer but from insurance companies and special interest groups like MADD. Who will profit the most from your DWI? The insurance companies that will increase your rates and the special interest groups that are paid by the state to run the special programs that you must attend after a DWI conviction. I'm not advocating for drunk driving and I have never had a DWI and my driving record is clean. It's an easy sell to the public and it pays big dividends to the police departments, special interest groups and the insurance companies. With all this awareness and arrests, has the number of DWI's gone down? 

Vehicle violations are the same thing, just stuffing the coffers of the county or city and not doing a damn thing for public safety. It is definitely true in New Mexico and has been highlighted in recent months with some very high profile cases. Crime goes unsolved and unanswered but they sure can write a ticket.


----------



## pheniox17

Meangreen said:


> Vehicle violations are the same thing, just stuffing the coffers of the county or city and not doing a damn thing for public safety. It is definitely true in New Mexico and has been highlighted in recent months with some very high profile cases. Crime goes unsolved and unanswered but they sure can write a ticket.


different debate, please save for when I get more rum.... (speed limits, countries that have open speed limits, have less fatal accidents.. coincidences much, even here when the NT had open speed limits, it had the lowest fatality rates in Australia, but the year they introduced a max speed, the numbers changed.... speed kills, the drug maybe lol)

but agreed, police spend more time writing tickets aka involuntary donations to the state, than catching real criminals, look at this "knockout game"


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## Mic

pheniox17 said:


> respond to a faital traffic accident, involving children, and the driver at fault was under the influence of some high grade drugs, you will quickly change your tune when you put a sheet over a child...


If it saves just one child..........


----------



## Meangreen

Mic said:


> If it saves just one child..........


It happens everyday, bad things happen everyday and no amount of fines and enforcement is going to change that.


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## BamaBoy101

Meangreen said:


> Creative Editting on the part of the creator of the video. Two things you're looking for drugs and illegal aliens and not a dumb idiot with a video camera. Montana rancher you should come on down to the border and talk to the ranchers down here and I think you would have a different take on this video and what is really going on down here on the southern border.
> 
> When I have had to work checkpoint in the past I want to get the USC's out of the way as quickly as possible so I can get the drugs and illegal aliens. By law I have to ask everyone the same question, "Can you please state your citizenship?" When I get an asshole like the guy in the video, the question I ask is "hey do you know what the Bill of rights and the US Constitution are?" They of course say Yes! I then say, " Hey great you must be a a US citizen, have a nice day!" They then of course go into a big rant about how they are being detained and I say "no you're detaining yourself, will you please go." THis of course doesn't make a good video and they go into more assholishness and I walk away and start talking the people in the vehicles behind them until they finally leave. I know what I'm looking for and these people are just wasting my time.


I have been through many border checkpoints over the years. I have no problem telling them I am a citizen but the couple times they wanted to look in my vehicle I told them not without a warrant. They got a little bent out of shape. I was detained for 6 hours once for refusing a search. I don't have anything to do with illegal drugs. I could have let them search with nothing to hide but they don't have the right so I refused&#8230;


----------



## Denton

rice paddy daddy said:


> Did anyone READ the posted article, or just base all your assumptions on the headline?
> The article clearly states that the mouth swab is completely voluntary, consent must be given.


I'll have you know I went entirely on my assumption! :lol:

Completely voluntary, however, doesn't always seem that way when put in the right terms by those wearing badges and sidearms.

Then again, my issue is with roadside spot checks, DUI checkpoints, or anything that has law enforcement making contact with a citizen without reasonable cause.

As matter of fact, remember that old antiquated document that expected an affidavit (sworn to and signed) affixed to a warrant? Unless, of course, the crime is a felony, and witnessed by the _peace officer_ (notice how I just switched to a different title?).

Yes, constitutuonalists are a pain in the butt. I know.


----------



## Denton

BamaBoy101 said:


> I have been through many border checkpoints over the years. I have no problem telling them I am a citizen but the couple times they wanted to look in my vehicle I told them not without a warrant. They got a little bent out of shape. I was detained for 6 hours once for refusing a search. I don't have anything to do with illegal drugs. I could have let them search with nothing to hide but they don't have the right so I refused&#8230;


Interesting, huh? They ask to allow them to circumvent your rights and you get held against your will because of it.

What are the elements to the crime of kidnapping?


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## BamaBoy101

Denton said:


> Interesting, huh? They ask to allow them to circumvent your rights and you get held against your will because of it.
> 
> What are the elements to the crime of kidnapping?


Oh yes and he had the nerve to tell me refusing the search was probable cause to search&#8230;..Wow


----------



## Denton

BamaBoy101 said:


> Oh yes and he had the nerve to tell me refusing the search was probable cause to search&#8230;..Wow


And people wonder why some of us are getting fed up with the (in)justice system.


----------



## retired guard

When I worked the prison system I had broad discretionary powers to pat search, strip search obtain urine samples for testing or putting people in "dry cells" to see what they defecated. I expect those residing outside of prison to have more freedom than those inside of prison. A lot more!


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## Titan6

So Far I had no problem when I tell police officers at these check points that no you CANT search my vehicle and yes i do mind telling where I been and where I'm going i usually come back at them with the question why are you doing this at 11 am in the morning or i feel like I'm back in Korea in the DMZ.....As for the DNA I would go to jail and sue them later instead of giving it to them. I always turn my voice recorder on my cell phone and let the officers know its on and they don't give me attitude after i tell them that.. They do act differently though when they know its on..Ive ran into these officers with and without recording and letting them know...


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## Denton

retired guard said:


> When I worked the prison system I had broad discretionary powers to pat search, strip search obtain urine samples for testing or putting people in "dry cells" to see what they defecated. I expect those residing outside of prison to have more freedom than those inside of prison. A lot more!


Yup. Prisoners are not "free men" and do not get the same _courtesy_.

You are a retired corrections officer? Hat is off to you, sir. I worked in the Alabama Department of Corrections for one year until my class was laid off (someone had to pay for the sizable pay raise the legislature gave themselves). Didn't like the job much, and was a bit relieved when laid off.


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## retired guard

Denton said:


> Yup. Prisoners are not "free men" and do not get the same _courtesy_.
> 
> You are a retired corrections officer? Hat is off to you, sir. I worked in the Alabama Department of Corrections for one year until my class was laid off (someone had to pay for the sizable pay raise the legislature gave themselves). Didn't like the job much, and was a bit relieved when laid off.


Legislatures do tend to have interesting budget priorities. Although when ours gave themselves a raise I did make the statement it could be justified because we were not getting competent help at the current pay scale.


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## jimb1972

retired guard said:


> Legislatures do tend to have interesting budget priorities. Although when ours gave themselves a raise I did make the statement it could be justified because we were not getting competent help at the current pay scale.


I worked for the Nebraska Dept. of corrections for a couple years, definitely a lesson in human nature.
I have not seen any roadside check points personally in years, I am not sure if they still do them around here.


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## rice paddy daddy

Titan6 said:


> So Far I had no problem when I tell police officers at these check points that no you CANT search my vehicle and yes i do mind telling where I been and where I'm going..........


Actually, they could care less where you are going. The point of the question is so you will speak. Then they can check for the odor of alcohol, slurring of speech, etc.
I have found that cops are people too, and usually respond in kind to the way they are treated. I have always been courteous and polite, and have never run into any officer that acted like a jerk. 
I would suggest that anyone who has a problem with LEO's to avoid Charlton County, Georgia. Avoid it like the plague. Several times a month they do driver's license checks, and a couple times a year they do full blown DUI checks complete with the Georgia State Patrol and the GSP Batmobile (Bat= blood alcohol testing) which is a Winnebago sized vehicle complete with holding cells; and tow trucks ready to remove impounded cars. Canine units from Florida get involved too, on the Georgia side of the border.
And you know what? Each time drunks, suspended license folks, people with outstanding warrants, etc are removed from society, for a short period anyway.
And that's just jim-dandy with me.


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## Denton

I think the founding fathers mentioned something about trading liberty for security.
There is a right way and a wrong way of doing things, and the motives do not justify the means.
I hope that makes sense.


----------



## retired guard

rice paddy daddy said:


> Actually, they could care less where you are going. The point of the question is so you will speak. Then they can check for the odor of alcohol, slurring of speech, etc.
> I have found that cops are people too, and usually respond in kind to the way they are treated. I have always been courteous and polite, and have never run into any officer that acted like a jerk.
> I would suggest that anyone who has a problem with LEO's to avoid Charlton County, Georgia. Avoid it like the plague. Several times a month they do driver's license checks, and a couple times a year they do full blown DUI checks complete with the Georgia State Patrol and the GSP Batmobile (Bat= blood alcohol testing) which is a Winnebago sized vehicle complete with holding cells; and tow trucks ready to remove impounded cars. Canine units from Florida get involved too, on the Georgia side of the border.
> And you know what? Each time drunks, suspended license folks, people with outstanding warrants, etc are removed from society, for a short period anyway.
> And that's just jim-dandy with me.


I don't want drunks on the road and I am no expert. I would think if you can tell they are drunk by the way they are driving. I have spotted them many times and could have justified a stop in court. If you can't tell by the way they drive that they are drunk high distracted or enraged then what is the problem?


----------



## BamaBoy101

rice paddy daddy said:


> Actually, they could care less where you are going. The point of the question is so you will speak. Then they can check for the odor of alcohol, slurring of speech, etc.
> I have found that cops are people too, and usually respond in kind to the way they are treated. I have always been courteous and polite, and have never run into any officer that acted like a jerk.
> I would suggest that anyone who has a problem with LEO's to avoid Charlton County, Georgia. Avoid it like the plague. Several times a month they do driver's license checks, and a couple times a year they do full blown DUI checks complete with the Georgia State Patrol and the GSP Batmobile (Bat= blood alcohol testing) which is a Winnebago sized vehicle complete with holding cells; and tow trucks ready to remove impounded cars. Canine units from Florida get involved too, on the Georgia side of the border.
> And you know what? Each time drunks, suspended license folks, people with outstanding warrants, etc are removed from society, for a short period anyway.
> And that's just jim-dandy with me.


Man they get bent when I wont put my window down more than 2 inches...


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## rice paddy daddy

Anybody want to volunteer to come on down and be a test case?:mrgreen:

edited to add: in the early 1990's Charlton County, Georgia was ordered by the Supreme Court to close its jail because it constituted cruel and unusual punishment. Prisoners were transported to other county jails until just last year when a new jail was built. This is The Deep South, and things are different here, than, say, the mid-west.


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## PaulS

I refuse to yield my rights and freedoms to make law enforcement easier. I do not submit to searches and I will refuse to answer questions unless they pertain to the reason I was stopped. If I have done something wrong I will be honorable and tell the truth without convicting myself. I will not allow a search of my vehicle without a warrant under any conditions.


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## pheniox17

PaulS said:


> I will not allow a search of my vehicle without a warrant under any conditions.


same, they need to show real cause (as I'm law abiding) or show a legal warrant to search my property...


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## Gunner's Mate

Keep in mind cally has all the hippies with the medical mary jane card


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## Meangreen

BamaBoy101 said:


> I have been through many border checkpoints over the years. I have no problem telling them I am a citizen but the couple times they wanted to look in my vehicle I told them not without a warrant. They got a little bent out of shape. I was detained for 6 hours once for refusing a search. I don't have anything to do with illegal drugs. I could have let them search with nothing to hide but they don't have the right so I refused&#8230;


This must be a actual border crossing between mexico/us or Canada/us totally different rules. Than a temporary border patrol checkpoint. Dealing with the blue uniforms can really suck. They are like the DMV of DHS


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## Meangreen

Meangreen said:


> This must be a actual border crossing between mexico/us or Canada/us totally different rules. Than a temporary border patrol checkpoint. Dealing with the blue uniforms can really suck. They are like the DMV of DHS


I will add that you should never consent to a search. Always say no. Don't be a cops fishing trip.


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## BamaBoy101

Meangreen said:


> This must be a actual border crossing between mexico/us or Canada/us totally different rules. Than a temporary border patrol checkpoint. Dealing with the blue uniforms can really suck. They are like the DMV of DHS


No sir, this was in Arizona 150 miles from the border...


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## Meangreen

BamaBoy101 said:


> No sir, this was in Arizona 150 miles from the border...


Wow, did the dog alert? We can't detain longer than 45 minutes and that is with reasonable suspicion. With immigration checkpoints, once immigration status is determined the inspection is over and you're on your way. If your immigration status cannot be determined or there is suspicion of criminal activity (drug smuggling) then the vehicle is placed into secondary and the clock starts. There are bad apples in every barrel but usually agents are watched pretty closely at checkpoints. My experience at checkpoints is limited because it's usually the new agents or agents that didn't do well at the academy and entrance exams that end up at checkpoints.


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## BamaBoy101

No dog alert, it started as " we need to check your trunk" and went to "we need to search your car" and they were looking in someone else’s trunk near by. They said my refusal to allow the trunk check was cause for suspicion and a full search..


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## PrepConsultant

I have a little story that is a little off topic but still interesting.
I have a friend that lives in South Florida. He has been on and off pain pills for several years. He spent about 18 months in jail for them about a few years ago.. Anyway, about 2 yrs ago he decided he wanted to get off of them. He was clean and sober and was living in a half way house type of place. His roomate got him a job with him selling something over the phone. The roomate was his supervisor and everything was going fine for a few weeks. After about 3 weeks, his roommate/supervisor asked my buddy to go to the doctor to get some pain meds. My buddy has all kinds of pins and stuff in his knee and docs always give him the strong stuff.. My buddy told him no that if he did, he would want to take some too and he was trying to stay clean. After about 2 weeks of this guy asking for them and my buddy saying no. The roommate said he was going to have to fire him because he didn't have some kind of license but if he could get the pain pills, he could hide him not having a license for a while. So after the threat, my buddy went to the doc and arranged a meet with this guy.. 

When they met up, Broward Sheriffs Office,swat,dea and all the other alphabets were there and took my buddy to jail. Come to find out, the police department had CI's in certain halfway houses and rehabs doing it to other people. After 22 months and a lot of money for an attorney, my buddy just got out a few weeks ago.
You wouldn't think they would be able to do something like that. Getting someone that is clean and strong arming them into breaking the law.. I guess the cop that was in charge of the CI has now been fired for a different reason and is now in trouble for purgery..


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## Deebo

Thats what they call the 501k program. Rats, snitches, bastards pulling people back in, to save their own guilty ass.
P.C. let me promise you, with experience, that confidential informants and snitches and that kinda shit goes on, way more than you think.


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## PrepConsultant

I grew up with the saying that "Snitches end up in ditches" or "snitches get stitches".. I am usually a pretty calm guy but if something like that happened to me. I don't know what I would do..


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## Deebo

Brother, I feel you. I was in some big truble, and the "nice police officer" touched his tie, and told me that he had just turned off his recorder, and that if I "gave up some info on So and So, and Such and Such," he could gaurantee that "half my charges would be dropped".
I promptly informed him that "I liked my grandma's house just like it was,(not burned to the ground), that I had never heard of the people he just mentioned, and that I was in trouble for things I had done, not anyone else." He told me I was the only person "in that situation" he had dealt with that didn't start "pulling other people into the fire". 
I say nice police officer, becouse I feel that he probably saved my life. 
I will find this officer, soon, andlet him know personally how I feel.


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## Smitty901

Parts of Chicago in the past may still go on . If they stopped you and you refused a search ,a rock suddenly appear in view in your car.


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## BamaBoy101

I know an outlaw biker, a true 1% individual and on his wall hangs a broad axe. And on the handle carved in it say Snitchmaster 1000.


----------



## Meangreen

BamaBoy101 said:


> No dog alert, it started as " we need to check your trunk" and went to "we need to search your car" and they were looking in someone else's trunk near by. They said my refusal to allow the trunk check was cause for suspicion and a full search..


Well then you would have a suit because that is an illegal search.


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## PrepConsultant

All they have to do is say the dog "alerted" and it would be hard to prove otherwise..


----------



## Meangreen

PrepConsultant said:


> All they have to do is say the dog "alerted" and it would be hard to prove otherwise..


And when nothing is found? The dogs have to be certified and false hits can lose the certification and not to mention lying is contempt.


----------



## PrepConsultant

Meangreen said:


> And when nothing is found? The dogs have to be certified and false hits can lose the certification and not to mention lying is contempt.


I agree. I have talked with LEO's that have said they have done it before at times..


----------



## Meangreen

PrepConsultant said:


> I agree. I have talked with LEO's that have said they have done it before at times..


Ya and they usually end up Giglioed.

Giglio for Law Enforcement Officers & Credibility Determinations - The Police Law Blog


----------



## BamaBoy101

I do know that I have seen handlers force an alert to get a search. It happens more than you know....


----------



## Meangreen

BamaBoy101 said:


> I do know that I have seen handlers force an alert to get a search. It happens more than you know....


I know it happens but not for long because we watch very closely and false hits are obvious in stats. The Sheriffs deputy dog handler involved in the cases in New Mexico we talked about on this forum has resigned and is facing criminal charges for his alleged alerts.


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## BamaBoy101

I am of the belief that for any officer to search a vehicle they should need more than a dogs say so. I don’t think border patrol should be allowed to set up more than 20 miles from the border. I don’t believe an officer of any kind should be able to stop you without probable cause. When I hit the road blocks around here I give them hell. They ran a drug dog around my truck and had him on the hood and cab. Scratched the hell out of my vehicle and found nothing. They did it because I gave them grief about the road block…


----------



## Meangreen

BamaBoy101 said:


> I am of the belief that for any officer to search a vehicle they should need more than a dogs say so. I don't think border patrol should be allowed to set up more than 20 miles from the border. I don't believe an officer of any kind should be able to stop you without probable cause. When I hit the road blocks around here I give them hell. They ran a drug dog around my truck and had him on the hood and cab. Scratched the hell out of my vehicle and found nothing. They did it because I gave them grief about the road block&#8230;


If the dog damaged your property, that is a tort claim and you would be reimbursed. Just leave the Border Patrol work to the people actually doing the work. We got 100 air miles for a reason.


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## BamaBoy101

Meangreen said:


> If the dog damaged your property, that is a tort claim and you would be reimbursed. Just leave the Border Patrol work to the people actually doing the work. We got 100 air miles for a reason.


Well we can agree to disagree but if I don't leave the country I should not have to deal with border patrol....Just one mans opinion and its cool that yours differs! But from where I stand if I cross a border I have agreed to be stopped and so forth. But when I am 100 miles inland and there is no reason to believe I have been near the border then why should I be stopped? I have no doubt you have 100 air miles for a reason. The NSA has been gathering info on all of us for a reason. Obamacare was passed for a reason.

Now I don't mean to come off sounding like a smartass. I just question the validity of those reasons&#8230;


----------



## Meangreen

BamaBoy101 said:


> Well we can agree to disagree but if I don't leave the country I should not have to deal with border patrol....Just one mans opinion and its cool that yours differs! But from where I stand if I cross a border I have agreed to be stopped and so forth. But when I am 100 miles inland and there is no reason to believe I have been near the border then why should I be stopped? I have no doubt you have 100 air miles for a reason. The NSA has been gathering info on all of us for a reason. Obamacare was passed for a reason.
> 
> Now I don't mean to come off sounding like a smartass. I just question the validity of those reasons&#8230;


You don't have to deal with Border Patrol at all and you sure don't when you leave the country, when you return to the country, you deal with US Customs. Think about it. The Border Patrol's only real job is not to let people in, only to throw them out. Think about it, if you cross the border illegally, are you going to just sit there or are you going to start hauling ass for the nearest city? Thousands of people a day pass without a single incident and barely even slow down going thru the BP checkpoints, why is it so different for you?


----------



## PaulS

So when I am asked if I'm an American citizen I should reply, "jess!" in a Latino accent and everything will be fine?

I'd rather say, "do you have a reason to believe I am not?" Followed by, "Am I free to go?"


----------



## Meangreen

PaulS said:


> So when I am asked if I'm an American citizen I should reply, "jess!" in a Latino accent and everything will be fine?
> 
> I'd rather say, "do you have a reason to believe I am not?" Followed by, "Am I free to go?"


Well you could be like the majority of the population and not know what your Citizenship is so the question is rephrased, "Is everyone in the vehicle born here?" At which time it would be appreciated that you could stop being an asshole for 2 seconds and not make a shitty job any worse and say, "Ya" and be on your way. Or you can be an asshole and spew your shit and waste your time, my time, and everyone behind you their time and safety.


----------



## Meangreen

Meangreen said:


> Well you could be like the majority of the population and not know what your Citizenship is so the question is rephrased, "Is everyone in the vehicle born here?" At which time it would be appreciated that you could stop being an asshole for 2 seconds and not make a shitty job any worse and say, "Ya" and be on your way. Or you can be an asshole and spew your shit and waste your time, my time, and everyone behind you their time and safety.


Oh and we are not looking for Latinos, we are looking for illegal aliens.


----------



## PaulS

So what difference does an accent make?


----------



## Meangreen

PaulS said:


> So what difference does an accent make?


Zero, but by an act of Congress we must ask everyone the same question. Cases get thrown out if certain questions and statements are not made at the time of arrest.Trust me I have the smugglers picked out with five cars ahead of them. When car one is at my feet I'm already scanning car five. Many times I'm just trying to get the USC's out of the way so I can get to the smugglers but easier said than done. There are many things that give them away and it isn't accent or skin color.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

I'm trying to understand what some folks here do to get cops to pick on them so hard.
I"ve never had a problem, not ever. 
Maybe it's because I have veteran bumper stickers on the back glass of my truck and most cops are vets? Maybe it's because I'm a grey haired English speaking caucasian male?
Or maybe it's because I'm not an arrogant asshole?


----------



## Meangreen

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm trying to understand what some folks here do to get cops to pick on them so hard.
> I"ve never had a problem, not ever.
> Maybe it's because I have veteran bumper stickers on the back glass of my truck and most cops are vets? Maybe it's because I'm a grey haired English speaking caucasian male?
> Or maybe it's because I'm not an arrogant asshole?


I'm not picking on anyone on this forum and I'm just saying what I have noticed at checkpoints that people will take it as an opportunity to vent all their life troubles or their hatred of the government. Not the time people because I can't do anything for ya. If you have ever worn a uniform of any kind, you know it's like a huge sign to people that you're free to talk to. I'm in civilian clothing, I'm invisible but as soon as I put on a uniform everybody and their mother is saying something to me. I can be off work in my personal ride and people will demand I handle one of their life's dilemmas. I'm having lunch and people take it as the perfect time to stand over me while I eat and say, "You guys need to be doing this!" or "I would have been a ....but I...." 
I know it works both ways and I always tell the new guys that you have to be professional and by all means smile and be polite. I always appear relaxed and I always add ,"thanks for stopping" or "have a safe trip." 
I'm lucky I don't have to work checkpoint very often.


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## rice paddy daddy

Meangreen, I've got cops in the family. And they are just regular guys. Like you.


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## PaulS

One of the few times I have had a cop come "un-corked" was in a training session at the academy. I was playing the part of a suspect (civilian volunteer - not ever a cop or trained to be one) for a "stop and talk" field interrogation. We were told by the commanding officer that we were to be only as obedient as we had to - try to rile the cop. These were officers that were doing an annual drill to assure their compliance to the codes and the commander was watching everything that went on. I constantly put my hands back into my pockets and gave evasive answers to his questions... after about three minutes the cop lost it! He through me up against the wall and announced that I was under arrest! The commander stopped the scene right there and asked what he was arresting us for..... he stammered for a quick moment and said violation of curfew. He was told that would have been a bad arrest because there is no curfew and dismissed. He was clearly frustrated but refused to let me get close enough to apologize. Later on in the "felony stops" he got "killed" by us when we quickly brought the car to a stop when he pulled us over and jumped out of the car firing our "guns" into the officers as they tried to get to their guns while strapped into their seat belts.

We had watched a couple of the stops and it was clear that we did not want to lay in the mud so we found a way around it and still within the "rules" of the game.


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## Meangreen

PaulS said:


> One of the few times I have had a cop come "un-corked" was in a training session at the academy. I was playing the part of a suspect (civilian volunteer - not ever a cop or trained to be one) for a "stop and talk" field interrogation. We were told by the commanding officer that we were to be only as obedient as we had to - try to rile the cop. These were officers that were doing an annual drill to assure their compliance to the codes and the commander was watching everything that went on. I constantly put my hands back into my pockets and gave evasive answers to his questions... after about three minutes the cop lost it! He through me up against the wall and announced that I was under arrest! The commander stopped the scene right there and asked what he was arresting us for..... he stammered for a quick moment and said violation of curfew. He was told that would have been a bad arrest because there is no curfew and dismissed. He was clearly frustrated but refused to let me get close enough to apologize. Later on in the "felony stops" he got "killed" by us when we quickly brought the car to a stop when he pulled us over and jumped out of the car firing our "guns" into the officers as they tried to get to their guns while strapped into their seat belts.


Good times in scenarios! My favorite when I was an instructor was, "US citizen doing nothing wrong carrying a shotgun" it was always a good time to talk about the Second Amendment and civil rights violations.


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## PaulS

I learned a lot more than some of the officers did on that weekend and in the forensics class I took because they didn't have enough officers to keep the class. That was a riot! The first night the instructor (an ex-FBI agent) was doing his introduction and a guy came through the door and fired three rounds and left as the instructor fell to the ground. Some of the officers got up to chase him down but were stopped when the instructor stood up and told everyone to write down exactly what happened and to give a description of the shooter. I was 22 and never learned to observe until that night. I got the three shots right but my description would have had the cops looking for somebody else. What a great class.

BTW: I am glad I never wanted to be a cop - I would not make a very good cop. I thought about training in forensics but I was too busy being a newlywed and working two jobs.


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