# War in the streets...



## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

As if cops didn't have enough to worry about. Now they have to worry about unprovoked attacks. I can't imagine what it must be like for police officers and their families right now. Ami I coming home tonight? 
LAPD calls off search for gunman who fired on patrol car in South L.A. - LA Times


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

And in Florida.....

Shots Fired at Sheriff?s Deputies in Florida - WSJ


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

The odds of being shot as a cop are lower than if you were a cab driver. I doubt the average cop has much to worry about other than headlines.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

In Jacksonville, Florida, several nights ago firefighters were shot at from a passing car while fueling up their fire trucks.
Now, depending on the type call that comes in, fire response may be delayed until police back up arrives.


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## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

Diver said:


> The odds of being shot as a cop are lower than if you were a cab driver. I doubt the average cop has much to worry about other than headlines.


IDK things are changing you can feel the change in the air.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Diver said:


> The odds of being shot as a cop are lower than if you were a cab driver. I doubt the average cop has much to worry about other than headlines.


Times have just changed, my friend!!! I'm sure if you ask the average police officer if they are more concerned at the moment, the answer would be YES!!! I believe they should be.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Sorry, I know I sound like a broken record (the younger members probably don't know what record is) but I blame the liberal news, and the white house. These people taking pot-shots at our police think they are the good guys, and the police are the bad. I wager most think they have the moral support of the people.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> The odds of being shot as a cop are lower than if you were a cab driver. I doubt the average cop has much to worry about other than headlines.


Reckon you haven't seen nor heard all the hate speach being directed towards them - or did you miss the ambushes that already occurred befor e the incidents in Missouri and New York


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Danm said:


> IDK things are changing you can feel the change in the air.


Being a police is not very high on the list as being a dangerous job. It is about half as dangerous as being a farmer or rancher, and a fourth as dangerous as being a lumberman, Probably most on here have just as dangerous jobs. Fishermen's jobs are almost 5 times more dangerous.
The 15 Most Dangerous Jobs In America


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Being a police is not very high on the list as being a dangerous job. It is about half as dangerous as being a farmer or rancher, and a fourth as dangerous as being a lumberman, Probably most on here have just as dangerous jobs. Fishermen's jobs are almost 5 times more dangerous.
> The 15 Most Dangerous Jobs In America


OK, but most of those jobs don't have people trying to gun them down. They die from accidents. Tragic, but different.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

That is true, Ricky, but it means something when we see reports of police officers being shot at across the country. It doesn't mean anything good.


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## Big Country1 (Feb 10, 2014)

Justice Department Grants Linked to Cop-killing Rap Video

It?s Open Season on Police and Firefighters since NYC Executions | The Gateway Pundit


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Mish said:


> OK, but most of those jobs don't have people trying to gun them down. They die from accidents. Tragic, but different.


Actually a cop is more likely to die in a traffic accident than be shot.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

This is just the beginning . The dependent part of our society depends on an undercurrent criminal economy. That means non stop war with LE. They stir up problems to get LE off their back. That group is no long happy with the cash flowing in now they want more. Time to stir it up again . They know they will be paid off to keep the peace.
The chant should be no cash no peace , the last thing they want is justice.
Most major cities have given up on stopping gangs it is to politically expensive. All they do is manage them. LEO are caught in the middle of this. Many LEO in Milwaukee will flat out tell you they will not make a protected class arrest unless no other option can be found. They know it they arrest 1 to many of them they will be called on the carpet by Mayor and COP. 
These groups know if they ratchet up the violence LEO will be forced to back down. Jackson made his money going to large companies and making it known pay me or trouble is coming, and they did. He then used some of that cash to increase his power. Sharpton while he works in a different lane does the same thing.
Remember the flack between Obama and Jackson? It was about the money Jackson felt Obama has not paid his respect to him. Obama felt he could take the power with out paying. Then they spanked Jackson Jr. to make sure Jackson got the message. Sharpton did and got on Obama's train.
Liberals can not hold power with out an huge underclass to support them. 
So it was written that in his reign Obama so loved the poor the he did all he could to create millions more. And when the liberals saw all he had done they pronounced it good.
LEO alone can not over come this , we must. If we don't you better arm yourself.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

This Cop/first responder shooting crap is Bulls**t!...these Fing fools will be the first people (if you can call them that) to call the cops when they get robbed/mugged/raped,etc,.
and,they will be the first to complain that nobody responded within 2 minutes.

I say,adopt a cop,if I saw an attack on a peace officer/firefighter,I would try my best to back them up.the only issue I see as an armed citizen is being mis identified.

I couldnt just stand there and watch or take a video with my phone.its just not in me to stand around and do nothing.I cant help it.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> In Jacksonville, Florida, several nights ago firefighters were shot at from a passing car while fueling up their fire trucks.
> Now, depending on the type call that comes in, fire response may be delayed until police back up arrives.


Sad to think that somebody could bleed out because the first responders will be reluctant to do their job for fear of being shot at. It's harsh but I think that anybody who attacks PD, FD, or EMS should be executed. First responders are already under a lot of pressure. It is completely unacceptable that they should also face the risk of attack when they are called out to save lives.


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## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

Diver said:


> Actually a cop is more likely to die in a traffic accident than be shot.


yes in the tradional way of thinking but the world we all long for is gone never to return, the old way of looking at things are going the way of the dodo, it's sad but the new reality.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> That is true, Ricky, but it means something when we see reports of police officers being shot at across the country. It doesn't mean anything good.


I agree it doesn't mean anything good. I'm not sure it means the same thing everywhere however.



Danm said:


> yes in the tradional way of thinking but the world we all long for is gone never to return, the old way of looking at things are going the way of the dodo, it's sad but the new reality.


The old way being respect for the 2nd amendment, 4th amendment, etc.? Those quaint customs have been long gone.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Diver said:


> The odds of being shot as a cop are lower than if you were a cab driver. I doubt the average cop has much to worry about other than headlines.


There isn't a growing movement to kill innocent cab drivers being fueled by the lefty media. Police are being targeted for simply wearing the uniform. If I were a cop I would be taking some extra precautions.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> There isn't a growing movement to kill innocent cab drivers being fueled by the lefty media. Police are being targeted for simply wearing the uniform. If I were a cop I would be taking some extra precautions.


There would have to be a lot more cases than we have seen so far before I would consider this a "movement". I think cops should take every precaution I am legally allowed to take.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Not to diminish the police problem but I can take it one step farther. Here is a list of the idiots I've had to deal with just this year. Never any problems for the last 40 years on the same property.

Erosion control officer, new thing the county started.
Building inspector. Says to do something this way, next week it's wrong and needs to be done a different way.
County Ag idiot. I can't plow and disc "MY" farm field that way anymore.
Tax Inspector. I built ONE new pole barn. This has been taxed twice by two different inspectors on two separate parcels. Valued at twice what it cost to build. Plus they keep coming out unannounced and walking around my property taking pictures. Reappraising the property at least 5 times in the last 3 years again by two different people. 


People are getting sick and tired of big brothers foot on their neck. With all the new regulations from the monkey it's only getting worse. If all this control and regulation keeps getting worse you will start to see more push back.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

chipper said:


> not to diminish the police problem but i can take it one step farther. Here is a list of the idiots i've had to deal with just this year. Never any problems for the last 40 years on the same property.
> 
> Erosion control officer, new thing the county started.
> Building inspector. Says to do something this way, next week it's wrong and needs to be done a different way.
> ...


THINGS LIKE THE CRAP THAT CHIPPER IS DEALING WITH .. Will be the spark that starts the revolution against these socialist tyrant bastards. I WILL ASSURE YOU OF THAT.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Diver said:


> There would have to be a lot more cases than we have seen so far before I would consider this a "movement". I think cops should take every precaution I am legally allowed to take.


well lets see, there was 2 killed in NY, 1 in Florida, I believe 1 in California (not sure if he died), and another one got a gun pulled on him a few miles outside of Ferguson. All of that was within a 2 week period. How many more would you need to see before you think there is a growing problem? Also, cops don't have every "legal precaution" you have the option of taking. For example, you can decide to stay home with your family. You can decide to avoid problematic areas. They don't have that option. I think that New Jersey air is getting to you...


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Chipper said:


> Tax Inspector. I built ONE new pole barn. This has been taxed twice by two different inspectors on two separate parcels. Valued at twice what it cost to build. Plus they keep coming out unannounced and walking around my property taking pictures. Reappraising the property at least 5 times in the last 3 years again by two different people.


As long as you shout "Intruder" and at least one person hears you before you take the shot, you should be okay. I'm thinking 4-5 tax inspectors before they start catching on.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> THINGS LIKE THE CRAP THAT CHIPPER IS DEALING WITH .. Will be the spark that starts the revolution against these socialist tyrant bastards. I WILL ASSURE YOU OF THAT.


I'm with ya, Slippy.
The spark that started the American Revolution was a tax on tea. Our forefathers would have been shooting a long time before now.
The political elite in Washington needs to consider ONE fact - The American Revolution was fought by a mere 3% of the population.
I am a direct descendant of one of those 3%, a soldier in the Revolutionary Army.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I was shot at several times between 1990 and 2000. Since then not once. I don't care, as long as I get out of here alive in 2017 and my sons steer clear of this profession I will have done my part.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Now fox is saying two L.A.officers were shot at in their cruiser..they are ok,1 in custody, 1 at large still.glad the LEO's are ok!....this is whats going to cause a war,guess whose side I'm on?.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> well lets see, there was 2 killed in NY, 1 in Florida, I believe 1 in California (not sure if he died), and another one got a gun pulled on him a few miles outside of Ferguson. All of that was within a 2 week period. How many more would you need to see before you think there is a growing problem? Also, cops don't have every "legal precaution" you have the option of taking. For example, you can decide to stay home with your family. You can decide to avoid problematic areas. They don't have that option. I think that New Jersey air is getting to you...


As far as I know the only the NY incident led to anybody being killed and that was a mental health patient, not a movement. The case in Fergusn was a simple criminal caught in the act, not a movement. There is no information yet about the FL and CA incidents, so it is difficult to attribute them to a movement.

As for my situation vs. the average cops, I beg to differ. I cannot get a carry permit for either NY or NJ. The cops are armed. I don't have any more choice to stay home than anyone else who works. I have a duty to retreat. They don't. As for being forced to go to "problem areas", NJ is divvied up into very tiny towns, each with its own police force. My town is less than 2 miles across. There are no "problem areas" that I would avoid.

Get real. They're armed and I cannot be legally armed. As long as they enforce laws designed to protect them at the expense of everyone else's safety, they are violating the Constitution. Is a cop's life worth more than mine? I don't think so. Should I be required to move in order to enjoy all of the rights under the Bill of Rights?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I was shot at several times between 1990 and 2000. Since then not once. I don't care, as long as I get out of here alive in 2017 and my sons steer clear of this profession I will have done my part.


Were you armed when you were shot at?

BTW: Despite my views on this and similar threads, you sound like a good guy. Thank you for your service.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm with ya, Slippy.
> The spark that started the American Revolution was a tax on tea. Our forefathers would have been shooting a long time before now.
> The political elite in Washington needs to consider ONE fact - The American Revolution was fought by a mere 3% of the population.
> I am a direct descendant of one of those 3%, a soldier in the Revolutionary Army.


Actually the opening shots were due to the British attempt to seize arms at Concord, which is also why we have a 2nd amendment. I'm not denigrating the tax issue, just setting the record straight. Restrictions on gun rights place cops today in the role of the British then.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

MI.oldguy said:


> Now fox is saying two L.A.officers were shot at in their cruiser..they are ok,1 in custody, 1 at large still.glad the LEO's are ok!....this is whats going to cause a war,guess whose side I'm on?.


I'm glad the cops are okay. I haven't heard any word as to what the motive was for shooting, which is what you need to determine if this was politically motivated.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Diver said:


> I'm glad the cops are okay. I haven't heard any word as to what the motive was for shooting, which is what you need to determine if this was politically motivated.


If you read the link in my original post, you would know this story already.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> The odds of being shot as a cop are lower than if you were a cab driver. I doubt the average cop has much to worry about other than headlines.


Source?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Mish said:


> If you read the link in my original post, you would know this story already.


Here is what the story says about motive:

"We don't know what precipitated the shooting," LAPD Lt. Andy Neiman told the Los Angeles Times

That doesn't sound to me like some sort of movement or even a copycat. It sounds to me like the investigation hasn't come to a conclusion at all. I'm not saying I don't know the story as reported so far. I'm saying there is nothing yet to call a "movement".


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> Restrictions on gun rights place cops today in the role of the British then.


I live in a state where my gun rights are restricted up the butt and I've never seen or heard of a cop seizing the gun of a law abiding citizen. Only thugs and criminals.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Diver said:


> Were you armed when you were shot at?
> 
> BTW: Despite my views on this and similar threads, you sound like a good guy. Thank you for your service.


In fact I was but returning fire was not an option as there were bystanders between me and the shooters. Once at a liquor store robbery, several times from large mobs and once from a boat and a guy with an M1 carbine or a mini 14. I have friends who weren't so lucky. One was shot in the face with a .357 magnum and survived. He is all the worse for wear and still works for the County. He is a very good Officer.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> I live in a state where my gun rights are restricted up the butt and I've never seen or heard of a cop seizing the gun of a law abiding citizen. Only thugs and criminals.


Happens in NJ. It's good for a 3-10 year sentence.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> In fact I was but returning fire was not an option as there were bystanders between me and the shooters. Once at a liquor store robbery, several times from large mobs and once from a boat and a guy with an M1 carbine or a mini 14. I have friends who weren't so lucky. One was shot in the face with a .357 magnum and survived. He is all the worse for wear and still works for the County. He is a very good Officer.


I'm glad you came through okay.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Well it is looking like the police may actually need that military surplus they were getting from the feds after all.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Diver, you're probably right...just a consequence.


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## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

Moonshinedave said:


> Sorry, I know I sound like a broken record (the younger members probably don't know what record is) but I blame the liberal news, and the white house. These people taking pot-shots at our police think they are the good guys, and the police are the bad. I wager most think they have the moral support of the people.


Dont forget get Al Sharton and Rev JJ


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

One thing I have noticed in more than a few Police involved shootings is a situation where an officer knew the suspect personally. Every time this person would pull onto the road that Officer was chomping at the bit to stop him. I have seen that type of behavior in my own Department. Officers take the job to get even for being bullied in school and sometimes, usually in smaller towns, their sole focus is revenge. All you have to do is look at the history: Noise violations, stop sign violations, light violations, speeding. Eventually, and all to frequently it ends in violence. Small towns all over America are replete with examples of this.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

From today's Times-union, Jacksonville, Florida.
Two Pasco County deputies were in separate cars at 3:30 AM Sunday morning in Dade City conducting traffic enforcement of a nearby intersection. Shots were fired at them and area residents also reported the gunshots and said they saw a small dark colored vehicle with tinted windows at the time of the shooting.
Neither officer was hurt.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> One thing I have noticed in more than a few Police involved shootings is a situation where an officer knew the suspect personally. Every time this person would pull onto the road that Officer was chomping at the bit to stop him. I have seen that type of behavior in my own Department. Officers take the job to get even for being bullied in school and sometimes, usually in smaller towns, their sole focus is revenge. All you have to do is look at the history: Noise violations, stop sign violations, light violations, speeding. Eventually, and all to frequently it ends in violence. Small towns all over America are replete with examples of this.


IN NYC Stop and Frisk can be used the same way. We've also got cops beating up senior citizens for jaywalking.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Gunner's Mate said:


> Dont forget get Al Sharton and Rev JJ


Don't forget DeBlasio who got 73% of the vote running on a anti-police platform.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Seneca said:


> Well it is looking like the police may actually need that military surplus they were getting from the feds after all.


The surplus Departments were getting was almost exclusively defensive in nature. Police need body armor, they need patrol carbines and they need SWAT teams. You can thank Charles Whitman and the Texas Tower incident for your local SWAT team. You can thank Larry Phillips, Jr. and Emil Mătăsăreanu and the North Hollywood shootout for the carbines you see in your local patrol cars. Columbine was the impetus for active shooter response training. It turned my stomach to watch Police sit waiting on the SWAT team while Eric Harris and Dylan Kleibold massacred their fellow students.

Your average beat cop should ALWAYS be approachable and have a servant's heart. When trouble erupts he should move towards the gunfire as quickly, safely, selflessly and as bravely as possible.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Diver said:


> As for my situation vs. the average cops, I beg to differ. I cannot get a carry permit for either NY or NJ. The cops are armed. I don't have any more choice to stay home than anyone else who works. I have a duty to retreat. They don't. As for being forced to go to "problem areas", NJ is divvied up into very tiny towns, each with its own police force. My town is less than 2 miles across. There are no "problem areas" that I would avoid.
> 
> Get real. They're armed and I cannot be legally armed. As long as they enforce laws designed to protect them at the expense of everyone else's safety, they are violating the Constitution. Is a cop's life worth more than mine? I don't think so. Should I be required to move in order to enjoy all of the rights under the Bill of Rights?


Are you trying to tell me that there are no "ghettos" in NJ? I hope not. The point I was making was that no one is sending you into those areas to interview suspects or conduct investigations or traffic stops. You can choose to not go there, they can't.

As to your point about them being armed and you not, that is your politician's fault not the cops. As a matter of fact, the Oath Keepers refuse to enforce laws that are unconstitutional which are made up of mostly cops and retired military. To answer your question, yes you should move and vote with your feet if your vote at the ballot box isn't doing what you need it to.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Diver said:


> Don't forget DeBlasio who got 73% of the vote running on a anti-police platform.


that 73% is a gross misrepresentation because the turnout was extremely low. DeBlasio took that 73% number as a mandate to inflict his progressive agenda on all of NYC when in fact it was only a small portion of the population who actually voted for him.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> Are you trying to tell me that there are no "ghettos" in NJ? I hope not. The point I was making was that no one is sending you into those areas to interview suspects or conduct investigations or traffic stops. You can choose to not go there, they can't.
> 
> As to your point about them being armed and you not, that is your politician's fault not the cops. As a matter of fact, the Oath Keepers refuse to enforce laws that are unconstitutional which are made up of mostly cops and retired military. To answer your question, yes you should move and vote with your feet if your vote at the ballot box isn't doing what you need it to.


My local cops don't have to go anywhere outside the couple miles across the town that is their jurisdiction. Same for every other town in the state. The idea they can be sent to a "ghetto" that I can avoid is ludicrous. They can't be sent there unless that is where their job is. If that is where their job is then they applied for and accepted that job.

As for the gun laws being the responsibility of the politicians and not the cops, the cops swear to uphold the Constitution and then violate that oath by enforcing clearly unconstitutional laws. For any "Oath keeper" in the state, they are simply violating their oath twice. If the cops respected their oaths to defend the Constitution, the politicians would not be able to impact whether I carry a gun.

If you think it should be necessary to move out of a US state in order to enjoy the Bill of Rights, where would you suggest moving to? Where is the line where you think we should defend the Constitution? Let's say I move to PA. Is there any reason to think it will remain immune to the northeast disease? Will the Constitution be respected there or will I just have to move again? What about Ohio? If the Constitution isn't going to be defended anywhere in the US what meaning does it have?


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

I think Diver has nitrogen narcosis. You can't have it both ways. You can't lump all LEOs together when it suits you and treat them separately saying because you live in a small town with no bad areas it is ludicrous to say they can be sent to a ghetto. As for the gun laws in your state I am simply telling you what your legal options are. There are challenges to the NY Safe act as well as the CT gun laws that will reach the Supreme Court next year. You can wait and cross your fingers for That or you can move if you want a CCW permit.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
The odds of being shot as a cop are lower than if you were a cab driver. I doubt the average cop has much to worry about other than headlines.



Notsoyoung said:


> Source?


 You can do a google search and there must be a hundred sites that shows what are the most dangerous jobs and cab driver is rated higher on all of them 
Most Dangerous Jobs In America - Business Insider
#9 dangerous job. Cab drivers 19.7 fatalities per 100,000.
#11 dangerous job Police 18.6 per 100,000 and 41% of those were do to traffic accidents.

No matter how someone tries to spin it, the numbers show that being a police is not that dangerous. Probably half on this site have more dangerous jobs.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

What our Constitution say or does not say and what it means is subject to change at any give time. In the end 5of 9 decide. It does not madder what President , Congress or the people say. At least 5 of the 9 say it means this and that is that until we can find new judges to hear it again and change it back.
This is why you really need to think about who will appoint the next Justices. We have some on the court now that do not like the Constitution, they feel it is outdated as does the man they bow to.
Hanging your hopes or future on what you think the Constitution says is meaningless. The only way it has meaning is if you stand up and vote. You do not have three choices you have two. One hates the Constitution the other believes in a conservative approach to looking at it. Your call .
Don't blame LEO. They are just as stuck in the middle as we are. SHTF they maybe the few I pass some ammo to.


Most dangerous job, I told you fishing was dangerous.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> What our Constitution say or does not say and what it means is subject to change at any give time. In the end 5of 9 decide. It does not madder what President , Congress or the people say. At least 5 of the 9 say it means this and that is that until we can find new judges to hear it again and change it back.
> This is why you really need to think about who will appoint the next Justices. We have some on the court now that do not like the Constitution, they feel it is outdated as does the man they bow to.
> Hanging your hopes or future on what you think the Constitution says is meaningless. The only way it has meaning is if you stand up and vote. You do not have three choices you have two. One hates the Constitution the other believes in a conservative approach to looking at it. Your call .
> Don't blame LEO. They are just as stuck in the middle as we are. SHTF they maybe the few I pass some ammo to.
> ...


Well, I see no reason to take an Oath to something that might have a different meaning tomorrow. However, If I accept your premise, which would be supported by Obama, does the Constitution mean the same thing in all 50 states? It doesn't appear to at present.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> I think Diver has nitrogen narcosis. You can't have it both ways. You can't lump all LEOs together when it suits you and treat them separately saying because you live in a small town with no bad areas it is ludicrous to say they can be sent to a ghetto. As for the gun laws in your state I am simply telling you what your legal options are. There are challenges to the NY Safe act as well as the CT gun laws that will reach the Supreme Court next year. You can wait and cross your fingers for That or you can move if you want a CCW permit.


There have been challenges to NJ gun laws for the past 40 years. The US Supreme Court never takes those cases. I seriously doubt NY SAFE Act or CT laws will make it there so quickly. The best hope seems to be the Peruta case from CA.

As for "having it both ways" first I do not lump all LEOs together. csi seems like a good guy. NJ cops on the other hand are universally willing to enforce unconstitutional gun laws. They are disrespectful, and my encounters with them have left me with an obviously negative opinion of them. That opinion is shared by all of the retired cops I know. My point about them not being sent to ghettos was in response to someone saying that was the case. It isn't in NJ. The cops for the most part work for individual towns and the towns are pretty homogeneous. The one exception might be the State Police, but they seem to mostly be patrolling the interstates.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Originally posted by diver: As for the gun laws being the responsibility of the politicians and not the cops, the cops swear to uphold the Constitution and then violate that oath by enforcing clearly unconstitutional laws.

I'm guessing that you think your opinion matters when it comes to constitutional law. And for the record it is your opinion. The constitution was set up by a lot wiser men than you or I will ever be. It was set up with a system of checks and balances and a definite system of redresses. But the Federal constitution was set up to work within the framework of the 13 original colonies Constitutions. But a lot on this forum - not only on this thread but on a lot of others - seem to think that your opinion matters. One other member put it very bluntly if you're not one of the five wise men on the SCOTUS then your opinion and a buck may get you a cup of coffee and that's all.

You have a problem with the way NJ or NYC sets up their system of allowing folks to carry a pistol, then get off your duff and work with the NRA and other grass roots organizations and convince your lawmakers to change the laws in your state. 

As far as not being allowed to carry without a permit, then you are correct that NJ is a needs based state. So was VA when I applied and my application went thru with no questions asked the first time - oh and the occupation I was getting it for was as a pizza delivery driver. So don't say it can't be done.

As far as the Supreme court changing it's mind on the constitutionality of a law - you'd better hope they can. Remember Dred Scott's return to his southern owners was upheld by the SCOTUS at it's first presentation.

If you'd like to drop me a PM I might be able to help you with your permit application process.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Diver said:


> Well, I see no reason to take an Oath to something that might have a different meaning tomorrow. However, If I accept your premise, which would be supported by Obama, does the Constitution mean the same thing in all 50 states? It doesn't appear to at present.


The average cop should not be expected to know every nuance of Constitutional law, or every interpretation of the document itself. Judges trained in law can not even do that.
And neither will the National Guard soldiers if they are sent by the governor of their state to enforce laws. They will do as ordered by their officers. The same will go for active duty soldiers if ever called upon. They will do as ordered, unless they are given a clearly unlawful order, such as shooting civilians.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Mish said:


> As if cops didn't have enough to worry about. Now they have to worry about unprovoked attacks. I can't imagine what it must be like for police officers and their families right now. Ami I coming home tonight?
> LAPD calls off search for gunman who fired on patrol car in South L.A. - LA Times


Yep its getting bad out there. Just heard on TV tonight they arrested a nice democrat from Foat Wuth who had posted pics of himself on FB pointing a toy AR at pics of cops. The Rev Sharpton..and his pals Obummer and Eric have a big deal planned for New Years Eve. Afraid quite a few folks are fixing to start meeting Jesus or allah maybe. We locked and loaded at our house. If I was a cop I would call in sick.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Well its a long time coming 

The evaluation of war in this case is slow, but has been going since the dawn of policing...

Its always good guys vs bad guys, unfortunately today there are so few good guys to battle the bad guys, prison systems have failed.. Courts failed... 

Your almost better off selling drugs than earning a honest living...


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The average cop should not be expected to know every nuance of Constitutional law, or every interpretation of the document itself. Judges trained in law can not even do that.
> And neither will the National Guard soldiers if they are sent by the governor of their state to enforce laws. They will do as ordered by their officers. The same will go for active duty soldiers if ever called upon. They will do as ordered, unless they are given a clearly unlawful order, such as shooting civilians.


They should certainly know we have the right to bear arms under the 2nd amendment and that searches are limited by the 4th amendment. If they don't know that much they aren't qualified to serve as law enforcement. Doing as ordered went out as an acceptable defense at the Nuremburg trials.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

They should certainly know we have the right to bear arms under the 2nd amendment and that searches are limited by the 4th amendment. If they don't know that much they aren't qualified to serve as law enforcement. Doing as ordered went out as an acceptable defense at the Nuremburg trials. 

All points are valid in my book. The professional LEO should want to learn all he can about criminal and constitutional law. I am a student of the Nuremberg Trials. Another reason why I feel we live in a great, nay, the greatest country.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Diver said:


> Doing as ordered went out as an acceptable defense at the Nuremburg trials.


i'm curious. You say you are in your 60's. Have you ever been in the military?
You see, soldiers are trained that it is their duty to disobey an unlawful order. But what constitutes an unlawful order? Clearly rounding up a class of people, such as Jews, or communists, and killing them out of hand constitutes an unlawful order.
But how about disarming a crowd for public safety? How about a weapons check point on a roadway? DUI checkpoints have been ruled constitutional by the supreme court.
So, to a PFC with a rifle and bayonet trying to restore order after a disaster, what constitutes an unlawful order?

Again, you are my age, allegedly, have you had the military experience and training to know what constitutes a lawful or unlawful order?


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Lt. Calle gave the order and the My Lai Massacre was perpetrated. Soldiers follow illegal orders from time to time. The Germans and Japanese had an easier time because of political fanaticism and the Bushido Code respectively. Imagine how much better off the people of Nan King and the soldiers at Malmady would have been if one enemy soldier had said "Not Today Sir!" I'm sure the Japanese Commander or Joaquim Piper would have personally shot them, but at what point is your life worth making a statement? That's a good time in my book.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> i'm curious. You say you are in your 60's. Have you ever been in the military?
> You see, soldiers are trained that it is their duty to disobey an unlawful order. But what constitutes an unlawful order? Clearly rounding up a class of people, such as Jews, or communists, and killing them out of hand constitutes an unlawful order.
> But how about disarming a crowd for public safety? How about a weapons check point on a roadway? DUI checkpoints have been ruled constitutional by the supreme court.
> So, to a PFC with a rifle and bayonet trying to restore order after a disaster, what constitutes an unlawful order?
> ...


I have not been in the military. Are you actually trying to suggest that NJ LEOs are too stupid to know that NJ gun laws are unconstitutional, or at least of questionable constitutionality? How can one enforce the law without some rudimentary knowledge of the law? If they know so little are they any better than a gang? At best they are not competent for law enforcement duty. What good is their oath to defend the Constitution if they know so little of what is in it?

BTW: If ignorance of the law is no excuse for civilians, what does that make an LEO who doesn't know the law?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> Lt. Calle gave the order and the My Lai Massacre was perpetrated. Soldiers follow illegal orders from time to time. The Germans and Japanese had an easier time because of political fanaticism and the Bushido Code respectively. Imagine how much better off the people of Nan King and the soldiers at Malmady would have been if one enemy soldier had said "Not Today Sir!" I'm sure the Japanese Commander or Joaquim Piper would have personally shot them, but at what point is your life worth making a statement? That's a good time in my book.


Well, in NJ it isn't from "time to time" or an aberration. It is a full time job for every cop in NJ. The same is true for NY. I'd like to hear your opinion of the cops involved in cases like Brian Aitken or Shaneen Allen.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Diver said:


> I have not been in the military. Are you actually trying to suggest that NJ LEOs are too stupid to know that NJ gun laws are unconstitutional, or at least of questionable constitutionality? How can one enforce the law without some rudimentary knowledge of the law? If they know so little are they any better than a gang? At best they are not competent for law enforcement duty. What good is their oath to defend the Constitution if they know so little of what is in it?
> 
> BTW: If ignorance of the law is no excuse for civilians, what does that make an LEO who doesn't know the law?


It is not the job of law enforcement officers to decide if laws are unconstitutional. That is for judges to decide.
The job of law enforcement officers is to enforce EXISTING LAWS.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I have enforced laws that I felt were unconstitutional. Tennessee once had a subsection in the dui law TCA 55-10-401 SS: A. It stated that if a person suspected of DUI was discovered to have a blood alcohol content that exceeded the legal limit at the time (.10%) they were to be considered guilty.

Any guess why I didn't care for this law? Sure it made my job easy, I went to court and dropped the A2 trump card. "Your honor, me, the lady that drew this man's blood at the Emergency room and the blood serologist at the TBI Crime lab hereby find this man guilty as charged. Peace, Out!

I felt that this subsection, while well intended to keep the roads of our Great and beautiful State safer patently and on it's face denied the Defendant the Due process they are guaranteed under the 5th and 6th amendments of the constitution. He or she was unable to mount a defense of any kind. Yes, I enforced it. I also understood that a Defense could be denied in the presence of a clear and compelling reason why one should not be allowed. This one was above me. Within a year, it was deemed as "unconstitutional" by the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati, Ohio. I considered this a victory for all of us. I still have a 100% DUI conviction rate, I just have to bear the burden of proof.

I don't see it here during my career, but if this State ever passed a law that I knew could not withstand a challenge and was in direct contravention with all my core beliefs and understanding of the rights of any free man. I would resign my commission. I pray it never happens.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I'll look them up when I get a little time Diver. Those cases are bookmarked.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> It is not the job of law enforcement officers to decide if laws are unconstitutional. That is for judges to decide.
> The job of law enforcement officers is to enforce EXISTING LAWS.


So the Constitution does not rise to the level of existing law? Interesting perversion of our system.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I'll look them up when I get a little time Diver. Those cases are bookmarked.


Thanks. Let me also add that I have been told directly by my local police. 1) I do not have a right to self defense. 2) They have no obligation to protect me _and will not do so_. This again in the context of having been attacked by a schizophrenic.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Supreme Court has ruled that police have no duty to protect civilians.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Gun deaths of officers jump 56 percent. 
Just what Obama and Holder wanted . Now they will of course blame legal gun owners for the problem. Mayor of Milwaukee is already doing so. Another child kill by gang bangers that should have long ago been in jail . Mayor blames Legal gun owners.
By not speaking out Obama has sent a message loud and Clear fire them up boys you work for me.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

NY and NJ definitely have some crazy laws. But I have doubts that every last one of the cops out there is a jackbooted thug as you describe them. Try looking at the good things they do on a daily basis. Nobody ever looks at that because it's not considered newsworthy in today's world. I remember seeing something about a NYPD beat cop giving his socks and boots to a homeless guy in Madison Square Garden because he felt sorry for the guy being out in the cold with no shoes. Or all the help they give to people with car trouble. Or giving directions to lost people. I even heard (hearsay) that police in NY carry blankets and teddy bears in their trunk so they can calm down children who seen or been through something traumatic. My point is they also do a lot of good.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Ark,
Some people just act like 10th grade girls and cannot do anything but bitch and moan.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> NY and NJ definitely have some crazy laws. But I have doubts that every last one of the cops out there is a jackbooted thug as you describe them. Try looking at the good things they do on a daily basis. Nobody ever looks at that because it's not considered newsworthy in today's world. I remember seeing something about a NYPD beat cop giving his socks and boots to a homeless guy in Madison Square Garden because he felt sorry for the guy being out in the cold with no shoes. Or all the help they give to people with car trouble. Or giving directions to lost people. I even heard (hearsay) that police in NY carry blankets and teddy bears in their trunk so they can calm down children who seen or been through something traumatic. My point is they also do a lot of good.


Not one of the "good things" you describe is a function of being a cop. Any kind, charitable, person could do the same things, and many have. More importantly does one cop calming a child with a teddy bear make up for another cop's abuse of a law abiding citizen? Will such acts of kindness make up for clubbing a 84 year old jaywalker into the ground? Will it make up for shooting a man who simply happens to walk into a stairwell? Does it make up for denying people their constitutional rights?

I don't think every NJ or NY cop is a jackbooted thug, but I believe many are and nothing is being done to remove them. I also believe that all of them are willing to enforce unconstitutional gun laws.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Good gracious, like we haven't heard that before...


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Diver said:


> Not one of the "good things" you describe is a function of being a cop. Any kind, charitable, person could do the same things, and many have. More importantly does one cop calming a child with a teddy bear make up for another cop's abuse of a law abiding citizen? Will such acts of kindness make up for clubbing a 84 year old jaywalker into the ground? Will it make up for shooting a man who simply happens to walk into a stairwell? Does it make up for denying people their constitutional rights?


No it sure doesn't. The point I was making is that most cops are not the enemy and they do plenty of respectable things. Those things may not fit the definition of law enforcement but it shows you that the police have some humanity. If a cop wakes up in the morning and his first thought is: gee, it's a good day to club an 84 year old jaywalker onto the ground or, I think I will gun down a guy in a stairwell today; then they deserve to be kicked out of the department and given a trial. Do not let a few bad apples spoil the bunch for you.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I tried on a pair of jackboots once Never could get the damned things to fit. Lol


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I tried on a pair of jackboots once Never could get the damned things to fit. Lol


The blousing of the trousers is key. If improperly bloused, I find it irritates, chafes and causes blisters.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Denton said:


> The blousing of the trousers is key. If improperly bloused, I find it irritates, chafes and causes blisters.


Too much information.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Denton said:


> The blousing of the trousers is key. If improperly bloused, I find it irritates, chafes and causes blisters.


I think that in this case, blousing bands would be critical.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> Thanks. Let me also add that I have been told directly by my local police. 1) I do not have a right to self defense. 2) They have no obligation to protect me _and will not do so_. This again in the context of having been attacked by a schizophrenic.


This Schizo case keeps cropping up in your multiple posts. Would you care to elaborate a bit more on what happened with you and the Schizo?


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Most Cops are good people who are doing a tough and often thankless job. When I hear people try to argue that their job isn't all that dangerous and complain about them my answer is simple, YOU DO IT. I heard crap along the same line much of the time I was in the Army. Let me remind you heroes of something that happened not all that long ago; When the twin towers came down there where a whole lot of firemen and Police officers died when they ran into the buildings trying to get as many people out before the building came down, and yes, from the last messages that many of them left they knew that there was a very good chance that they would not be coming out alive. They went in trying to save as many as they could before they died. IMO that makes up for a whole bunch of you being teed off for getting traffic tickets or whatever other problems you have had with Law Enforcement officers.

I said it before but let say it again, If in all of your dealings with Police officers you have encountered what you think of as "jack booted thugs", perhaps you should look at it like someone who has been married 4 or 5 times...... just maybe the problem is YOU. I have had numerous encounters with Police Officers (I seem to have a problem with exceeding the suggested maximum speed limit) in cities such as New York, Atlanta, Chicago, Boston, and even in Europe. Not once did I have an Officer act in an unprofessional manner, but then I was adult enough to admit that I was at fault, and if I was angry at anyone, it was ME.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I think that in this case, blousing bands would be critical.


do you prefer the green elastic ones or the metal ones the Jar Heads have


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

"I don't like dwarves, they're greedy and uncaring about lives they deem less than their own.
But Orcs I hate worse." - movie the hobbit
Heh heh


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> No it sure doesn't. The point I was making is that most cops are not the enemy and they do plenty of respectable things. Those things may not fit the definition of law enforcement but it shows you that the police have some humanity. If a cop wakes up in the morning and his first thought is: gee, it's a good day to club an 84 year old jaywalker onto the ground or, I think I will gun down a guy in a stairwell today; then they deserve to be kicked out of the department and given a trial. Do not let a few bad apples spoil the bunch for you.


If I actually thought that there was any effort to remove the few bad apples, we would be in agreement. It isn't me that is letting the few bad apples, it is the police themselves, and yes they are spoiling the bunch. The cops who beat up a 84 year old jaywalker are still on the job. Who gets beat up tomorrow?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> ...Who gets beat up tomorrow?


Slippy bolts upright in his chair and raises his arm way up high waving it around...."Oooooh, Ooooooh, Let me pick! Let me Pick!":deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Funny that schitzos keep coming up. I live in the country, but in the nearby town is a group home for schitzophrenics. They are kept WELL medicated, however they must not be locked up because they wander over to the nearby convenience store often enough to have worn a rut in the grass and dirt.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

SARGE7402 said:


> do you prefer the green elastic ones or the metal ones the Jar Heads have


I have some snappy ones I got at Fort Benning a few years ago. They are flat, about an inch an a half wide, elastic, with Velcro fasteners. To top it off they are reversible - OD green on one side, woodland cammo on the other.
I wear them in the woods around my jean cuffs to keep out ticks.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have some snappy ones I got at Fort Benning a few years ago. They are flat, about an inch an a half wide, elastic, with Velcro fasteners. To top it off they are reversible - OD green on one side, woodland cammo on the other.
> I wear them in the woods around my jean cuffs to keep out ticks.


You know if you eat enough garlic it wards off ticks for days. Course the wifee might object


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have some snappy ones I got at Fort Benning a few years ago. They are flat, about an inch an a half wide, elastic, with Velcro fasteners. To top it off they are reversible - OD green on one side, woodland cammo on the other.
> I wear them in the woods around my jean cuffs to keep out ticks.


 A real soldier uses the provided tie laces in the BDU's. I used the round green elastic ones. Only a 1SG would notice what type blousing straps a soldier uses.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> A real soldier uses the provided tie laces in the BDU's. I used the round green elastic ones. Only a 1SG would notice what type blousing straps a soldier uses.


Back in the day, stateside the PX sold the round green ones with the metal hooks on the end. Easy to use, made a nice blouse.
In Nam we either didn't bother, or if we needed to keep out creepy crawlies we used the strings built into the cuff.
Check out pictures of soldiers in Nam and you will see that proper uniforms were only worn on the big bases. The closer to the enemy, the farther away from the chickenshit.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> well lets see, there was 2 killed in NY, 1 in Florida, I believe 1 in California (not sure if he died), and another one got a gun pulled on him a few miles outside of Ferguson. All of that was within a 2 week period.


This sort of thing isn't happening with any more frequency than it ever has. Police killings are down significantly in recent years/decades. According to the NLEOMF website, officer killings have dropped significantly since the early 1970's. More than twice as many officers were shot and killed 1974, than were shot and killed this year.

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Latest Memorial Fund Fatalities Report

The media is absolutely sensationalizing both sides of this issue. They're intentionally stirring up officer resentment towards the public and vice-versa. The media (under the direction of this administration) is intentionally driving a wedge between the police and the general public. This is classic Hegelian Dialectic/Cloward and Piven social disruption. This is precisely how statist regimes get the police to commit atrocities against the very people they were sworn to serve and protect.



rjd25 said:


> How many more would you need to see before you think there is a growing problem? Also, cops don't have every "legal precaution" you have the option of taking. For example, you can decide to stay home with your family. You can decide to avoid problematic areas. They don't have that option.


Nobody is making them become or stay police officers. They could go into a different line of work anytime they wanted. This isn't East Germany...yet. There is always choice.



rjd25 said:


> I think that New Jersey air is getting to you...


Why does it always have to be personal?


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Charles Martel said:


> This sort of thing isn't happening with any more frequency than it ever has. Police killings are down significantly in recent years/decades. According to the NLEOMF website, officer killings have dropped significantly since the early 1970's. More than twice as many officers were shot and killed 1974, than were shot and killed this year.
> 
> National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Latest Memorial Fund Fatalities Report
> 
> ...


First of all you are citing statistics for a 1 year period when this just started a few weeks ago. Show me statistics on a 3 week period where there were more police targeted for murder in the 1970's. Until then, you can't compare the full year and ignore the fact that this just started 3 weeks ago.

I don't know what the malfunction with you guys is. If you honestly think there isn't something wrong with what has been going on for the past couple of weeks then I think you are beyond any rational help. Cops are people who want to earn a paycheck and return home to their families no different than you or me. Your first point makes no sense, I don't see how the "statists" pissing off the police would rally them to their cause and commit "atrocities" against law abiding citizens. To your second point, they have a right to work in their chosen vocation without fear of being killed while doing so. They shouldn't need to pick a new profession as you assert in your post. Please get a clue.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

here's another one from today.... Suspect Who Threatened to Kill Officers in YouTube Videos Fatally Shot After Trying to ?Run Down a Couple Cops?: Police | Video | TheBlaze.com


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Damn, Diver-- whose side are you on?

Wasn't stop&frisk stopped by Deblathero?

What is the chant---'what do we want--- dead cops'---
Cops being shot and shot at all over and you don't see that as a problem?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

tango said:


> Damn, Diver-- whose side are you on?
> 
> Wasn't stop&frisk stopped by Deblathero?
> 
> ...


Cops are not being shot at all over due to the protests. NY is a mental case and the other two cases have not revealed motives yet. They may well have nothing to do with the protests. Is it a problem? Sure, but it may not be the problem you think it is.

I also think NYPD violence is a problem and the lack of accountability of NYPD cops is a problem. Perhaps you can explain why the cops who beat up an 84 year old man for jaywalking are still on the job. Incidents like that helped put DeBlasio in office. DeBlasio did put an end to Stop & Frisk and that makes him a politician who kept a campaign promise. That's probably the only thing I agree with him on.

Do you know anything about NYPD? Do you know what the NY trigger is and why it was developed? I suspect not.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

tango said:


> Damn, Diver-- whose side are you on?
> 
> Wasn't stop&frisk stopped by Deblathero?
> 
> ...


Tango, don't waste your time. He is a cop hater who probably has some history on the wrong side of the police. I don't usually offer anything other than jokes and what little insight I may have into prepping on these forums but I am seriously in awe of people who can defend this type of behavior or pretend that it doesn't actually exist.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> Tango, don't waste your time. He is a cop hater who probably has some history on the wrong side of the police. I don't usually offer anything other than jokes and what little insight I may have into prepping on these forums but I am seriously in awe of people who can defend this type of behavior or pretend that it doesn't actually exist.


I have already explained my history with the police. I don't hate the police, but I absolutely do not trust them either.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> As far as I know the only the NY incident led to anybody being killed and that was a mental health patient, not a movement. The case in Fergusn was a simple criminal caught in the act, not a movement. There is no information yet about the FL and CA incidents, so it is difficult to attribute them to a movement.
> 
> As for my situation vs. the average cops, I beg to differ. I cannot get a carry permit for either NY or NJ. The cops are armed. I don't have any more choice to stay home than anyone else who works. I have a duty to retreat. They don't. As for being forced to go to "problem areas", NJ is divvied up into very tiny towns, each with its own police force. My town is less than 2 miles across. There are no "problem areas" that I would avoid.
> 
> Get real. They're armed and I cannot be legally armed. As long as they enforce laws designed to protect them at the expense of everyone else's safety, they are violating the Constitution. Is a cop's life worth more than mine? I don't think so. Should I be required to move in order to enjoy all of the rights under the Bill of Rights?


the cops did not make the laws in NJ, they just enforce it. I'm sure there are a lot of them that don't like the law, but it is the law that was put in place by the people who vote for the NJ law makers. you need to stop whining and do something. vote them out, start a movement, sue the state, just do something. let me ask you something... how do you really feel about cops? do you think they all should die? I have not seen anything positive you have written about cops. I'm not 100% for cops myself, cause I know not all cops are good, but not ALL of them are bad either. also, you seem to have problems with SWAT, like they kill people on a daily basis for sport. you might want to do a ride a long with a major metropolitan police force who deals with violent drug gangs to see why SWAT is needed.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> I have already explained my history with the police. I don't hate the police, but I absolutely do not trust them either.


Actually you've only alluded to one incident that you've never expounded on and yet you use it to condemn almost a million cops sheriff's and corrections officers.

Sucks we could say the same thing about the folks that live in New Jersey simply by equating them to what you've posted.

But would that be fair? Nope. So condemning all cops from one incident in you life is weird.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

rjd25 said:


> First of all you are citing statistics for a 1 year period when this just started a few weeks ago. Show me statistics on a 3 week period where there were more police targeted for murder in the 1970's. Until then, you can't compare the full year and ignore the fact that this just started 3 weeks ago.
> 
> I don't know what the malfunction with you guys is. If you honestly think there isn't something wrong with what has been going on for the past couple of weeks then I think you are beyond any rational help. Cops are people who want to earn a paycheck and return home to their families no different than you or me. Your first point makes no sense, I don't see how the "statists" pissing off the police would rally them to their cause and commit "atrocities" against law abiding citizens. To your second point, they have a right to work in their chosen vocation without fear of being killed while doing so. They shouldn't need to pick a new profession as you assert in your post. Please get a clue.


Martell does not like cops, plain and simple. he believes that cops are inferior and stupid. Martell on the other hand, at least according to him, he is highly educated and would not consider serving as LEO. He thinks he is above people who are cops. I would not be surprised if he thinks the same way of people in the military.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Charles Martel said:


> This sort of thing isn't happening with any more frequency than it ever has. Police killings are down significantly in recent years/decades. According to the NLEOMF website, officer killings have dropped significantly since the early 1970's. More than twice as many officers were shot and killed 1974, than were shot and killed this year.
> 
> National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: Latest Memorial Fund Fatalities Report


You should probably reference some updated facts before posting things as gospel.

New Crime Stats: Cop-Killings Are on the Rise | TheBlaze.com


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Seneca said:


> Well it is looking like the police may actually need that military surplus they were getting from the feds after all.


Well duh! Why do you think they've been executing people they could? That money and toys. 
Just like the drug scene gets changed in places when it's time to get more drug money grants.
But it's them or chocolate retards and the bikers. Guess who will win? I'm just hoping for as managed of a fall as possible. Not looking forward to any "chaos" but who knows?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Missing the point . What is going on now has been brewing for some time. It is the direct result of a Plan by Obama and Holder. Backed by their followers to stir up hate and violence. Then of course they will be forced to do something about a problem they fueled.
One dead LEO is to many no madder how they die. We can deal with LEO that do not belong in Uniform. What is happening has nothing to do with good or bad LEO. it is Political agenda. The sooner you see that that and wake up those you know the better.
Obama's grip on power was slipping it was time to stir it up. This is what liberalism is all about. Power by any means. Mark my words when it gets to the level they are waiting for , you the legal gun owner will be the blame. You the normal person that goes to work everyday will be the cause listen to them. They are already preaching it.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

To me these idiots demonstrating over the deaths of 2 THUGS one of which was assaulting a police officer and the other died resisting arrest primarily because Shamoo was 100 lbs overweight, is IMO an indication of the looming societal disaster that is coming.  Regardless of what the moron's are saying, in neither case was race a factor. The common factor was that both "victims" were THUGS and their illegal actions are what got them killed. Who are backing these fools? Al Sharpton, the communists, and the anarchists. These are the same scum that were in the "occupy Wallstreet" crowds. Their ultimate goal is revolution and the dissolution of American society.

Then we have those who use the deaths of these 2 dregs of society to attack the police as being "jack booted thugs", "stupid", "lazy", proclaim that their jobs aren't dangerous, and my favorite, the narcissistic claim that they are too well educated and too smart to become a Cop. As I posted earlier, I heard very similar things about the military while I was in the Army. Frankly I always thought that much of that was from loud mouths who secretly knew that better men (and women) were doing things that they themselves didn't have the intestinal fortitude to do themselves.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> We can deal with LEO that do not belong in Uniform.


Great! When do we start?


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

I can't believe this thread is still going!! lol


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mish said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going!! lol


 Ever stop to think that the fact it is still going is a good thing. People need to wake up. A real war in the streets is likely and it is not going to be romantic.
A lot of good and bad people will die.
Working to break down our LE to achieve a political end is a dangerous game. One they likely will not be able to real back in once they reach their objective.
I don't know about others but I a really tried of seeing people die. But in the end if all heck breaks loose and they come near me God help them.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> Ever stop to think that the fact it is still going is a good thing. People need to wake up. A real war in the streets is likely and it is not going to be romantic.
> A lot of good and bad people will die.
> Working to break down our LE to achieve a political end is a dangerous game. One they likely will not be able to real back in once they reach their objective.
> I don't know about others but I a really tried of seeing people die. But in the end if all heck breaks loose and they come near me God help them.


I started the thread so I obviously believe that this is a pretty important topic.  
I'm giggling because at page 11 no one is going to change anyone else's mind. =)


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mish said:


> I started the thread so I obviously believe that this is a pretty important topic.
> I'm giggling because at page 11 no one is going to change anyone else's mind. =)


 I understand. Dead LEO up 56% . That is no small number. Regardless of a persons political point of view a dead person in the street is till dead. And dead person in the street is likely to mean someone will want payback. 
The gang bangers the street economy is run by a bunch of bad boys. There are a lot of really mean men that have not reacted to them YET. Not bar room talk there are a lot of us that are slow to action but pushed into a corner will not be stopped by them. Gangster rapper with his sideway pistol can't hit a house most of time . Sees shootings in Milwaukee. People like me do not miss often and once the time come will have no personal issues with clearing the streets.
You see many of us defer to LE. But once it losses control the rules change.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

<<< my favorite, the narcissistic claim that they are too well educated and too smart to become a Cop.>>>

That really stuck in your craw. Cracks me up.

Men used to base their self esteem on character, not intelligence. Men also used to find their lives sufficient and have more humility about life and others.
LE should never ever dictate to society, only serve it.

And they should stop shooting dogs. You have to be lower than a ferguson or just the same to do that.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Each side thinks they are righteous and correct, and it go on forever in a tit for tat.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

James m said:


> Each side thinks they are righteous and correct, and it go on forever in a tit for tat.


That's a good point - one more "it's just diversion and divide" sign. Circular arguments and "snipe hunts" for utopia....


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

oddapple said:


> <<< my favorite, the narcissistic claim that they are too well educated and too smart to become a Cop.>>>
> 
> That really stuck in your craw. Cracks me up.
> 
> ...


 Just as John Kerry said the only reason we serve in the Army is because we are dumb and uneducated. I am smart that that jerk. He might be surprised at how many of our infantry soldiers have degrees. But he to rapped up in his own BS to figure that out.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Mish said:


> I started the thread so I obviously believe that this is a pretty important topic.
> I'm giggling because at page 11 no one is going to change anyone else's mind. =)


If one of the things you are prepping for is the collapse of freedom and the rise of a police state, the topic is critical.

As for changing anyone's mind, I don't think that is a reasonable expectation. However, if there is a rising understanding of an opposing view, even if there is no change in your own view, that is progress.

We've had a few decades of "broken windows" policing. The result is 80 million adults (1/3 of the adult population) with criminal records that result in their not being able to get jobs or credit that would otherwise be available to them. We have 5-10 times the incarceration rate of other developed countries. That is not sustainable.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> First of all you are citing statistics for a 1 year period when this just started a few weeks ago. Show me statistics on a 3 week period where there were more police targeted for murder in the 1970's. Until then, you can't compare the full year and ignore the fact that this just started 3 weeks ago.


You didn't even visit the site, did you?

Look, even if there have been an unusual number of police targeted and killed in recent days and weeks (there's no hard evidence that there is), it likely only represents a small statistical bump. I just don't see this as a new problem unless it manifests into a sustained trend. The simple truth is that the streets are much, much safer for police officers now than they were even three decades ago.



rjd25 said:


> I don't know what the malfunction with you guys is. If you honestly think there isn't something wrong with what has been going on for the past couple of weeks then I think you are beyond any rational help.


I see both sides of this. I understand the current outrage with regards to increases in police brutality. From the Oscar Grant case in Oakland, to the James Boyd Case in New Mexico, from the Kelly Thomas Case in Fullerton to the Eric Garner case in New York, From the Dustin Theoharis case in Alabama to the Levar Edward Jones case in South Carolina, cops are increasingly being seen as reactionary and thuggish. If there is a backlash against this type of behavior and misconduct, then perhaps it is at least partly justified.



rjd25 said:


> Your first point makes no sense, I don't see how the "statists" pissing off the police would rally them to their cause and commit "atrocities" against law abiding citizens.


The statists aren't pissing cops off directly. Their puppets in the media sensationalize very rare events (like the recent cop killings), giving police the false impression that they are under attack by the very public they were sworn to protect and serve. Driving a wedge between the police and the general public is a tactic that has been used by tyrants and despots since at least Roman times.



rjd25 said:


> To your second point, they have a right to work in their chosen vocation without fear of being killed while doing so. They shouldn't need to pick a new profession as you assert in your post.


No such right exists. Every trade, vocation, and occupation has its risks (being a police officer isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous occupations). Getting shot happens to be one of the risks of being a police officer. If you can't accept the risks associated with your chosen profession, find another one. It's that simple.



rjd25 said:


> Please get a clue.


It's clearly you that has demonstrated they don't have a clue.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Posted by CM *I see both sides of this. I understand the current outrage with regards to increases in police brutality. From the Oscar Grant case in Oakland, to the James Boyd Case in New Mexico, from the Kelly Thomas Case in Fullerton to the Eric Garner case in New York, From the Dustin Theoharis case in Alabama to the Levar Edward Jones case in South Carolina, cops are increasingly being seen as reactionary and thuggish. If there is a backlash against this type of behavior and misconduct, then perhaps it is at least partly justified. *

I'm not sure that we are seeing both sides. In the Grant Case it was clearly and accidental shooting - tragic and should not have happened. But accidental. The last two: I can only tell you how I've reacted in similar cases - arrest warrant being served with the violent subject "asleep in the bed" yes my gun was drawn. no my finger wasn't on the trigger. we got him awoke peacefully with the full understanding that if his hands came out with a weapon he would be hurt. Traffic stops, I've had more than a few and I don't think there were but a handful where my body wasn't safely behind the drivers door pillar. They'd have had to have been a contorsionist to pull a weapon and get a shot at me.

Where I have an issue is when folks call for lynching of officers even after the judicial process has done it's job and determined that there were no grounds for criminal charges. If we're not going to have any faith in our criminal justice system, then we're no more a nation of laws, and might just as well throw in the towel.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

"No such right exists. Every trade, vocation, and occupation has its risks"

That's true. 
The people messing in obola have no right to go home uninfected....they took their chances for the money or the boost.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Posted by CM *I see both sides of this. I understand the current outrage with regards to increases in police brutality. From the Oscar Grant case in Oakland, to the James Boyd Case in New Mexico, from the Kelly Thomas Case in Fullerton to the Eric Garner case in New York, From the Dustin Theoharis case in Alabama to the Levar Edward Jones case in South Carolina, cops are increasingly being seen as reactionary and thuggish. If there is a backlash against this type of behavior and misconduct, then perhaps it is at least partly justified. *
> 
> I'm not sure that we are seeing both sides. In the Grant Case it was clearly and accidental shooting - tragic and should not have happened. But accidental. The last two: I can only tell you how I've reacted in similar cases - arrest warrant being served with the violent subject "asleep in the bed" yes my gun was drawn. no my finger wasn't on the trigger. we got him awoke peacefully with the full understanding that if his hands came out with a weapon he would be hurt. Traffic stops, I've had more than a few and I don't think there were but a handful where my body wasn't safely behind the drivers door pillar. They'd have had to have been a contorsionist to pull a weapon and get a shot at me.
> 
> Where I have an issue is when folks call for lynching of officers even after the judicial process has done it's job and determined that there were no grounds for criminal charges. If we're not going to have any faith in our criminal justice system, then we're no more a nation of laws, and might just as well throw in the towel.


I think I see both sides clearly. I understand law enforcement's position, and I understand the public's position. I see abuses by police officers, and I see ridiculous overreactions to perceived abuses by certain segments of the population. Neither side is innocent in this.

I also see a frightening trend towards federalization and militarization of our state and local police forces. I see federal money, arms, and training flow into our local agencies. I see police becoming more reactionary, and detached from the citizenry. I think this is an incredibly dangerous and volatile dynamic. Any casual student of history understands the role that centralized, militarized police forces have played in the darkest chapters of human history. As a civil libertarian, and a serious student of history, I am as mistrustful of police as I am of standing armies. My interaction with law enforcement personnel on this and other forums only heightens my mistrust.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Charles Martel said:


> I think I see both sides clearly. I understand law enforcement's position, and I understand the public's position. I see abuses by police officers, and I see ridiculous overreactions to perceived abuses by certain segments of the population. Neither side is innocent in this.
> 
> I also see a frightening trend towards federalization and militarization of our state and local police forces. I see federal money, arms, and training flow into our local agencies. I see police becoming more reactionary, and detached from the citizenry. I think this is an incredibly dangerous and volatile dynamic. Any casual student of history understand the role that centralized, militarized police forces have played in the darkest chapters of human history. As a civil libertarian, and a serious student of history, I am as mistrustful of police as I am of standing armies. My interaction with law enforcement personnel on this and other forums only heightens my mistrust.


Yup

And we don't trust you either - is the reaction you'll get from the professionals.

Me personally I firmly believe that if you've not served - military, police, fire rescue, public health service, peace corps etc - that you should not have the right to vote.

but hey that's me


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Okay here is my 2 cents.

Condemnation of police officers as a whole because of the behaviour of one is just as bad as condemnation of a race because of the behaviour of one individual (i.e. Timothy McVeigh) While I understand that we base our beliefs on personal interactions, it is still wrong to condemn *all* police because you had one bad experience.

I don't care what career you decide to pick apart there is always someone that isn't doing what they should be. Should some police officers be removed from their positions - Yes. I don't know where some of you live but I don't live in Eutopia. The world isn't perfect! It sure as hell wouldn't be any closer to Eutopia if all police officers turn their backs on the civilians. It is sad that some of you are so full of hate to an entire group of people. Perhaps people are right when they say hate will kill us all. Lays ruler on the table and leaves the room. /rant


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Yup
> 
> And we don't trust you either - is the reaction you'll get from the professionals.


Because ordinary citizens have been such a historical threat to militarized police forces. (rolls eyes)



SARGE7402 said:


> Me personally I firmly believe that if you've not served - military, police, fire rescue, public health service, peace corps etc - that you should not have the right to vote.
> 
> but hey that's me


I personally believe that if you draw your paycheck from the government (local, state, or federal), that you should not be allowed to vote. This constitutes a clear conflict of interest.

But, hey, that's just me.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Auntie said:


> Okay here is my 2 cents.
> 
> Condemnation of police officers as a whole because of the behaviour of one is just as bad as condemnation of a race because of the behaviour of one individual (i.e. Timothy McVeigh) While I understand that we base our beliefs on personal interactions, it is still wrong to condemn *all* police because you had one bad experience.
> 
> I don't care what career you decide to pick apart there is always someone that isn't doing what they should be. Should some police officers be removed from their positions - Yes. I don't know where some of you live but I don't live in Eutopia. The world isn't perfect! It sure as hell wouldn't be any closer to Eutopia if all police officers turn their backs on the civilians. It is sad that some of you are so full of hate to an entire group of people. Perhaps people are right when they say hate will kill us all. Lays ruler on the table and leaves the room. /rant


It isn't just about having had a bad experience. It is about the fact that bad cops do not get removed from the job. In New York we had cops beat up an 84 year old jaywalker. I don't condemn all cops in NY for the act of these few cops, but I have a big problem with the fact these guys are still on the job and will no doubt do the same thing again in the future. That's why you've got protests going on in NYC.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> It isn't just about having had a bad experience. It is about the fact that bad cops do not get removed from the job. In New York we had cops beat up an 84 year old jaywalker. I don't condemn all cops in NY for the act of these few cops, but I have a big problem with the fact these guys are still on the job and will no doubt do the same thing again in the future. That's why you've got protests going on in NYC.


BULL! You have protests in NYC because of the death of 2 THUGS.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

4 Phone calls today from people I work with. Different words but all the same. Not sure how to ask this but, can I come by and talk with you. Yea whats up. well you know well ok about a gun. Couple just blurted it out. They are getting scared. Scared people do stupide stuff. This has been happen a lot lately.
The best time to purchase a weapon and learn to use it is not when you feel the demons are coming. You are likely to find them real or not.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Charles Martel said:


> Because ordinary citizens have been such a historical threat to militarized police forces. (rolls eyes)
> 
> I personally believe that if you draw your paycheck from the government (local, state, or federal), that you should not be allowed to vote. This constitutes a clear conflict of interest.
> 
> But, hey, that's just me.


Ok the liberals want illegal aliens and convicted felons to vote but not cops. This is making sense now.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> 4 Phone calls today from people I work with. Different words but all the same. Not sure how to ask this but, can I come by and talk with you. Yea whats up. well you know well ok about a gun. Couple just blurted it out. They are getting scared. Scared people do stupide stuff. This has been happen a lot lately.
> The best time to purchase a weapon and learn to use it is not when you feel the demons are coming. You are likely to find them real or not.


My method is to suggest we take a trip to the range together where they get safety instruction and a quick intro into NJ gun law. Then I suggest they start the process of getting a Firearms Owner ID card (NJ requirement to purchase anything) and I wrap up with the suggestion. They come back to the range and try a variety of the rentals available so they will be happy with their eventual purchase.

If they stick through all of that then they are serious not just momentarily scared.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

27 years in the Army I spent a large part of my life with a weapon in my hand. First being instructed , then latter doing the instructing and after that deciding who would do the instructing and making darn sure they knew what they were doing. I have my own range at home .
I personally would not turn anyone with out some instruction loose with a hand gun . I will allow people I know to shoot my weapons , to try different ones. To get an idea what hey are getting into. After that they are responsible for their action. I recommend local commercial basic instruction locally. I do not nor would I send a new shooter to Billy bobs Bad ass ninja school . Wisconsin does not require all that nonsense to get a firearm or to touch one. CC it pretty simple to get. 4 hour class and about 3-5 days done deal. Open carry is allowed by State Constitution . Wisconsin does not register any fire arms.
The point is people that normally would not even know what was going on our streets are starting to take notice, it is effecting their life now.
I believe every citizen should be armed unless by mental health, or their own conduct have forfeited that right. If I am not comfortable enough with a person to invite them to our range, I am not talking weapons with them anyway.
I have no issue with good people wanting weapons for any legal reason. I am worried about people doing it out of fear. Is this the kind of place we want to live? 
I voted for the other guy.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> 4 Phone calls today from people I work with. Different words but all the same. Not sure how to ask this but, can I come by and talk with you. Yea whats up. well you know well ok about a gun. Couple just blurted it out. They are getting scared. Scared people do stupide stuff. This has been happen a lot lately.
> The best time to purchase a weapon and learn to use it is not when you feel the demons are coming. You are likely to find them real or not.


I know what you are saying Smitty. Today a friend came over to shoot. He had bought an AR15 a couple of years ago after some crap hit the fan near him, but never shot it or learned to shoot it. He clearly needed some help. "Things have gotten out of control" he said.

So we started out on one of my AR platform .22's to allow him to get the feel of the platform. We then field stripped his rifle, inspected, cleaned and oiled it. I showed him how to sight his iron sights at 25 meters and before too long he was hitting 6" circles at 100 yards. He was clearly relieved to know that his $1000 weapon is now useful.

I hope he puts in the practice time that he needs. But he is afraid of what the world has in store for us in the near future.

God Save This Great Republic


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I have a right to vote. I get that people think I'm going to vote for the people who are going to fill my pockets. I don't roll that way. I'm sure others do. I am a Tea Party voting fool and they want to take away my pension. I like small Government, but I want the fair and reasonable retirement I was promised. If I was just starting in the career I could take care of my own retirement with assistance from my employer. I do believe there should, however be some incentive for doing what we do. Free Obamacare for the family maybe?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

You know what I see in this thread? I see people of the same opinion responding from different positions. Good people all, just seeing the situations from different vantage points.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> Thanks. Let me also add that I have been told directly by my local police. 1) I do not have a right to self defense. 2) They have no obligation to protect me _and will not do so_. This again in the context of having been attacked by a schizophrenic.


i sure hope you have a witness when that cop said you dont have a right to self defense. I would not let up on complaints against that idiot who said that. he needs to get fired.


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## bgreed (Feb 26, 2014)

To jump in on this At fourteen pages is late but what the heck. nearly thirty years ago I told friends of mine who were officers that if the police didn't stop enforcing unconstitutional laws and statues meant for revenue collecting under the color of law along with a number of other people control statues. That at some point cops would be getting shot just because they were cops. Because they are the face of the abuses whether they actually are doing it or not. Guess that day has arrived.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

bgreed said:


> To jump in on this At fourteen pages is late but what the heck. nearly thirty years ago I told friends of mine who were officers that if the police didn't stop enforcing unconstitutional laws and statues meant for revenue collecting under the color of law along with a number of other people control statues. That at some point cops would be getting shot just because they were cops. Because they are the face of the abuses whether they actually are doing it or not. Guess that day has arrived.


I agree with the premise, but one nut job committing murder in NY is not a trend, so we're still waiting as far as I am concerned.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Notice the anti-police protest going on that News media is not covering. The pot is not boiling yet but steam is rising.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

bgreed said:


> To jump in on this At fourteen pages is late but what the heck. nearly thirty years ago I told friends of mine who were officers that if the police didn't stop enforcing unconstitutional laws and statues meant for revenue collecting under the color of law along with a number of other people control statues. That at some point cops would be getting shot just because they were cops. Because they are the face of the abuses whether they actually are doing it or not. Guess that day has arrived.


 I agree with the above statement, however these current protest and cop murders are for different reasons. a lot is for the simple reason that they dont like cops because cops interefere with their illegal activities. when I was a patrolman I arrested a 14 year old kid. he had $2000 in cash on him, a loaded revolver and 40 gelcaps of heroin. the people in the neighborhood were yelling at me saying I am racist for arresting the kid. exact words were "you are just arresting him because of his skin" not because he is a dangerous drug dealer. another incident was an illegal restaurant in the hood. the restaurant was set up in a house and the food for sale was bought with food stamps. a clear abuse of welfare benefits. as a taxpayer, this pisses me off big time. so I called DSS and had their benefits suspended. again, I'm the racist bad cop for interfering with their illegal acts. I'm not asking for rewards or medals for what I do, I just wish people would stop whining and stop making excuses for their wrong doing.

as for unconstitutional practices of police, I dont participate in it and I make it known that I will be testifying against it. so far I got my unit straight, they understand that I will not be quiet nor cover up for unconstitutional practices. so if the protest is about unlawful police practice, I'm in. but this NY and Ferguson protest are complete BS. for some cops this is a start of war on the streets... for me, this is not new, my war started a long time ago.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

The point is that given half a chance these same "protestors" (sheep) would have their own Cops that would make the gestopo look like a bunch of sissies.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mayor of NY made it clear where he stands on LE. Good liberal Judges are what he needs not LEO. He reappointed the Judge that let a gang member and another that made threats to LEO lives Walk.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

War in the streets and who is calling for it. Read down look in the pictures notice Obama right in the mix of it all.
These are the people he supports fully.
Radical black activist issues cop-kill prediction


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