# Sutures.



## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

Hello folks, I'm in the process of "panic buying"(something I encourage) more first aid supplies, and generally beefing up my kits. 
I want to add suturing(?) kits. I have sewn up a dog and my buddies knee, and it was ugly and improvised, but it work, so I would like to add some dedicated gear.
My question is; what are the most versatile sizes and needle shapes? Best "thread"? YouTube was not helpful, and so I pray upon your wisdom. Lay it on me jack.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes a needed addition to medical kit. Besides the tools be careful to be sterile too. Learn "sewing" technique and knots. Some threads will dissolve, others need removing in a few days. 

For small stuff cyanoacrylate "crazy" glue works.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

Crazy glue I have. And steri-strips. And mad duct tape.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

jim-henscheli said:


> Crazy glue I have. And steri-strips. And mad duct tape.


Yup. Those are the three for me.

I don't care what the wound is, come at me with needle and thread and you'd better be ready to deal with a patient going into shock. Injuries don't phase me, but there's something about a needle.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

jim-henscheli said:


> Crazy glue I have. And steri-strips. And mad duct tape.


Be aware, crazy glue has a short shelf life.

I used the stuff in a fuming cabinet for latent prints.

One day I picked up an unused bottle of it and went to put some on the hotplate.

It had turned into a solid block, it was about a year old, came from police supply house, SIRCHIE.

Had to order more, and limited purchase to less than a years usage estimate.

It is best to pick up some needle holders on flea bay for about 3 buck each.

Kind of hard to work with a #5-0 suture & needle with your fingers, worse with blood on them.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Be aware, crazy glue has a short shelf life.
> 
> I used the stuff in a fuming cabinet for latent prints.
> 
> ...


I too have used crazy glue for forensics. It polimerizes on exposure to to air/light. If you keep it sealed and cool/dark ampules will store longer. Most Cops are not scientists and don't know better. I used to help teach a NSF funded Forensics workshop for Educators wishing to establish a Forensic Science College Program.

As far as sutures that is a skill that is best not learned when SHTF. Once you have the proper equipment using it in SHTF is an other thing. If you plan on this get some cheap chickens from the market and practice there first. It won't hurt them or you and if you are good and clean you can grill them afterwards.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The ones that solidified were never opened, stored in a steel cabinet in my evidence room in the cellar.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> The ones that solidified were never opened, stored in a steel cabinet in my evidence room in the cellar.


Could be bad quality control on the manufacter? Lots of organics, which cyanoacrylate is one, don't store well unless precautions are taken. That includes how pure they are _before sealing_ and the methods used to seal/store. Small traces of crap can make storing a "good" batch well, futile.

I worked with many compounds and found if stored properly they lasted a long time. If treated poorly they went to $#!T fast.

At some points I was a Professor of Chemistry, PH D.


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

jim-henscheli said:


> Hello folks, I'm in the process of "panic buying"(something I encourage) more first aid supplies, and generally beefing up my kits.
> I want to add suturing(?) kits. I have sewn up a dog and my buddies knee, and it was ugly and improvised, but it work, so I would like to add some dedicated gear.
> My question is; what are the most versatile sizes and needle shapes? Best "thread"? YouTube was not helpful, and so I pray upon your wisdom. Lay it on me jack.


4-O is for skin, 3-O is for skin that needs some tension. Like a laceration. Veins use a 5-O or 6-O. You want absorbable if possible. If you can't get it get braided. This is all from memory. Who listens to a RT anyway. Curved needles always worked best for me.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

MT, Chemistry is my downfall, I am a trained monkey in that respect.

My expertise consist of using two titrating solutions, phenolphthalein and bromocresol green. 

Biology I can grasp, mechanical I ace, but chemistry have not a clue, just nothing there for it.

As far as the glue goes, does not matter, been retired from there 10 years now.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Personally I like 3-0 silk. @Gunn had some good thoughts, I maintain a selection of 3-0 and 4-0. Try this sight Suture: shopmedvet.com I do keep 3 or 4 different ones on hand.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Wish I knew all the mechanical/machining skills you have. My Uncle was a Master at the Old GE Ordanance. I can weld gas/electric, do some machine work and have used a Bridgeport. Most comfortable with small/large engines and cars pre-2000.

I like all my things I can still fix without a computer.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

needle info ....

Needle Chart: shopmedvet.com

suture general page ....

Suture: shopmedvet.com

always check their closeouts .....

Suture Closeouts: shopmedvet.com


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> Wish I knew all the mechanical/machining skills you have. My Uncle was a Master at the Old GE Ordanance. I can weld gas/electric, do some machine work and have used a Bridgeport. Most comfortable with small/large engines and cars pre-2000.
> 
> I like all my things I can still fix without a computer.


 Big ol 1940s, 12 foot tall Bridgeport surface/flat grinder was a major part of my life for 5 years, I knew every hose and wire and spot where dirt got trapped, helped replace the chuck 2 times. What a tank! Sharpened many a zambony.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

While I too have sutures tucked away, knowing when to use sutures and when not to can make the difference between someone living and dying. If there is infection present and you suture the wound shut, you are trapping the infection inside with no place to go but deeper inside. Doctors will add a drain and sometimes or leave the wound completely open (unsutured) to heal by "second intention" if they fear an infection. Took me 4 months to heal that way after surgery. I suggest people get some real training before you work on someone.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

I agree with you quack, and I'm planning on continued learning.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

3-0 good maybe a 2-0 used curves needle most kits have the needle and try and find some locking forceps (lot of pot heads steal these) 
learn to throw loops (knots) quickly and precise don't be too sloppy unless you don't care about scar's" now shut up yah macho types", lol!
biggest problem I have had is getting the person to hold still without a local Marcaine injection.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

This is quite a useful resource.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1824895-technique#c3

Practice on your roasting joint before you throw it in the oven.

And these:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/surgery/Education/facilities/measey/Wound_Closure_Manual.pdf

www.dolphinsutures.com:8080/types-of-sutures

https://www.alnmag.com/article/2013/09/understanding-and-selecting-surgical-suture-and-needle

http://www.fmdental.pl/uploads/20110107131642.pdf

Sent from my iPhone using Technology whilst it still exists.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

fangfarrier said:


> This is quite a useful resource.
> 
> Suturing Techniques Technique: General Principles, Placement of Specific Suture Types, Alternative Methods of Wound Closure
> 
> ...


there's a couple of sources there you don't normally see in the US ....


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Denton said:


> Yup. Those are the three for me.
> 
> I don't care what the wound is, come at me with needle and thread and you'd better be ready to deal with a patient going into shock. Injuries don't phase me, but there's something about a needle.


I hate needles as well. I can't tell you how many times I have been to the hospital with various injuries of various degrees of severity only to feel worse when the nurse comes at me with a needle. As I am walking out the door I am telling her I will be OK, didn't need the finger anyways. ( As long as I have my middle fingers I am in good shape. :tango_face_grin: )
I can deal with the pain and blood but needles weird me out.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

paraquack said:


> While I too have sutures tucked away, knowing when to use sutures and when not to can make the difference between someone living and dying. If there is infection present and you suture the wound shut, you are trapping the infection inside with no place to go but deeper inside. Doctors will add a drain and sometimes or leave the wound completely open (unsutured) to heal by "second intention" if they fear an infection. Took me 4 months to heal that way after surgery. I suggest people get some real training before you work on someone.


knowing enough to select the correct med supplies and tools goes a long way toward prepping in that category .... going to be plenty of med professionals roaming around empty handed after a SHTF - supplies are going to dwindle and facilities over run by the rabble - might cost a pound of rice for a brain surgeon to suture you up - using YOUR supplies ...


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

does this help any?
https://www.strikehardgear.com/sutures/


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Or this?
https://www.facebook.com/MedicalVideos.us/videos/10155283197304667/

Sent from my iPhone using Technology whilst it still exists.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Late to the game here, what about skin staplers? Seems like they would be fast, quick and not need much for practice to use. Even if I knew how to sew, others with me may not. What are the limitations of staples?


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

staples- whatever, they take up room, and you have to remove them with a removal tool or I have used needle noise pliers before - not only that you will run out of staples eventually then what back to cat gut or what ever you got.
best to learn the hard way and do it right -sutures are not like riding a bicycle you have to practice every now and then or you will loose the skill.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Sutures all the way. Staples require technique and resources. Never used staples outside of theatre, would never use them in the field. 


Sent from my iPad using Technology before it is shut down.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Thank you both, looks like I'll be practicing on some chicken skin. Was just thinking along the lines of tearing off a band-aid, hurts less when you do it quick. Maybe look for some training on this too.


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## maine_rm (Jun 24, 2017)

1skrewsloose said:


> Thank you both, looks like I'll be practicing on some chicken skin. Was just thinking along the lines of tearing off a band-aid, hurts less when you do it quick. Maybe look for some training on this too.


I got to say I'm in the same camp. As far as knowing my way around the needle and thread. I have seen them "delivered" many times! Had a few myself here and there. I've never put any in though. This is an area I think a lot of people could benefit from I know I'm one. Sooo practice? On what store-bought chicken? Hunting season around here think deer skin is close? I know they use pigs for practicing tattooing. Should I go stitch up some hogs?


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

SOCOM42 said:


> Be aware, crazy glue has a short shelf life.
> 
> I used the stuff in a fuming cabinet for latent prints.
> 
> ...


You can buy Crazy Glue in tiny one time use tubes now.


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## sav4 (Oct 25, 2017)

Store in a dry spot, cyanoacrylates cure quick with h2o and/or uv from sunlight


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

maine_rm said:


> I got to say I'm in the same camp. As far as knowing my way around the needle and thread. I have seen them "delivered" many times! Had a few myself here and there. I've never put any in though. This is an area I think a lot of people could benefit from I know I'm one. Sooo practice? On what store-bought chicken? Hunting season around here think deer skin is close? I know they use pigs for practicing tattooing. Should I go stitch up some hogs?


Did a web search, seems chicken, turkey are pretty close to human skin. Who cares, slice up the skin, stitch it back up cook and eat. Works for me, but the wife is starting to think I went off the deep end. I guess it must be me stabbing the chicken and yelling "die".


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## deserth3 (Oct 11, 2015)

When I was an Air Force Medical Technician. We used to teach using crutch pads. Cheap and you can use it multiple times.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Buh bye !

IBTB = "In before the ban"


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

hawgrider said:


> Buh bye !
> 
> IBTB = "In before the ban"


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

My biggest problem is tying the knots while using the mayo hegar holders, that requires practice.

I started with the 00 size curved in a chicken, what a bitch to do!


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Annie said:


>


Nice work! Glad you saw the reported posts. He was pooping all over the place.


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