# Accidental Discharges....



## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Well my vacations ending early it seems, luckily my trip went better than planned and I got back in town a couple days early...

Apparently one of the guys at my work had and "Accidental Discharge" and ended up shooting himself in the leg. Fortunately he is going to live but the damage to his leg was pretty severe. He managed to miss the artery so he didnt bleed to death before he could get some help, but the bullet did shatter his femor (sp?) bone in his thigh and its expected to be about 4 months before he can stand again. Not sure of the caliber in question the hand gun was chambered for or every last little detail of the incident in question was but...

How in the hell do you have an Accidental Discharge?

In my opinion there aint nothing accidental about it. Accidents dont just happen they are created about 99% of the time. In 21 years of service as a weapons tech in the military who had the pleasure of investigating a number of "explosive mishaps" I dont think I once investigated a mishap that there werent a number of safety and or procedural steps that were violated. Sometimes they were through ignorance and due to a lack of training and others were lack of attention to detail, none were truely an accident!

1. The first question I have is why did knumb nuts have his handgun out of his holster anyways unless there was a threat that needed to be addressed. The guys a security guard at a retirement home and there is more action going on at the funeral home than there is there at 0110 in the morning. Just saying. That was mistake number 1.

2. The second mistake...was why did homey have the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction? One of the first things of gun safety you should have been taught is all guns are loaded until other wise proven and you dont point them at ANYTHING you do not want to DESTROY, MAIM or KILL!

3. The third mistake was...If you were going to be an idiot and pull a loaded gun out of the holster, why was the safety off!!! 

4. The forth mistake was...Unless you were about to shoot it why was your finger inside the trigger guard in the first place if you werent intending to discharge the gun in the first place?

5. The next mistake is...If you were going to play with your gun while on duty (or off for that matter) why didnt you first clear the gun so that crap like this didnt happen in the first place. Yeah I know that sounds too much like right. I like to carress and fondle my guns too but I aint stupid!!!

I really aint put much thought into this rant but just using my simple arithmatic off the top of my head, thats 5 cardinal rules of guns you just dont ignore. Adhereing to any one of those rules and this so called "Accidental Discharge" probably wouldnt have happened. And as you can see not just one of these rules being violated lead up to this incident. No there were several examples of blantant disregard that occured here before disaster struck! Hence my opinion that this was no accident at all. Unintentional perhaps as I dont know anyone that wants to shoot themselves with thier own gun, but this is not something I would consider to be an accident by any stretch of the imagination. Several deliberate actions occured that took effort before the hammer dropped on this nail.

Anyone care to disagree with me? What are everyone elses thoughts on this subject?


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

We had a guy on our gun forum last year got his "accident" filmed for the good of youtube. He showed all. I don't know why - it made him look the fool. Not sure the actual shooting was on there - I never looked. I don't disagree with you at all, and no I've never had an accidental discharge though I did have my duty weapon fall from my holster in a tough fight one time, and I could tell instantly and made it the sole focus of my next movement. It did scare me that it could fall out - went shopping next day for a new holster.

I recall my old instructor (who just passed recently and who I replaced) at the police academy telling us he wouldn't shed a tear for us if we died in the line of duty. He said 90% of all cops that go down likely did something wrong that if they had not done would have saved their lives. Police officers get complacent, the start cutting corners and forget their safety measures all too often.


----------



## branflake (Jul 23, 2012)

Blackhawk Serpa holster? they have a knack for blowing peoples legs off. Took a class a few years back and the instructor asked everyone before we started if they had one. the one guy that did was asked to find another or leave the class. Slim chance same thing happened here, but thought id throw it out there.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

We are all human and subject to human failings. While I agree with you that an accidental discharge is 99.9% + the result of not following standard safety practices, we all make stupid *mistrakes.*. So what was he doing when the accident happened?


----------



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Sounds more like a negligent discharge instead of accidental discharge. I have zero sympathy for people who negligently discharge a firearm.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I was always told there was no such thing as an accidental discharge. There are, however, negligent discharges.


----------



## wesley762 (Oct 23, 2012)

That is my biggest paranoia with Guns, I tend to double and triple check when handling them. I think that is one of the easest things you can avoid happening.


----------



## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

Here's an 'expert' shooting himself with a glock 40 and again, he's the only one in this room professional enough to carry a glock 40.


----------



## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

No such thing as an accidental discharge, only a negligent discharge. The ATF "agent" in the video, is a perfect example why affirmative action is a bad bad idea.


----------



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I have been using firearms since I was 8. I have been carrying one for duty purposes since 1990. I have never had an unintended discharge. We did have an officer blow away his coffee table though. He now works for Wastewater.


----------



## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

Actually there are some cases of real accidental discharges and the one I had years ago is an example. I was shooting clays and had the shot gun a side by side 20 ga. that I had been shooting for about 30 minutes without problems suddenly had the firing pins lock open. I load two new rounds and closed the gun which then went off. I was pointing the gun down range so no one was injured or even close but the gun got put up and wasn't fired again until the problem was fixed. I also had a guy (and off duty cop) in the next lane had a glock go full auto on him after one shot. He put 18 rounds through the roof of the building before it ran out of ammo. The reason as near as we could figure was a piece of the pin broke off and lodged between the slide in just the right position to cause a slide fire. He wasn't prepared for it and hence the gun which he controlled worked it way up ending in a few holes in the ceiling.

Now the cop in the video I've seen before and appears that he had his finger in on the trigger putting the gun in the holster but really just a guess based on what I saw in the video. Guns are machines and are subject to breaking from safeties failing to parts breaking at any moment. With that said people don't get hurt if you don't aim them in the wrong direction or have laps in memory about safe handling techniques.


----------



## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Our cav armorer was showing us how the muzzle safety on a 1911 works, "If you push on the muzzle like this, the gun can't discharge. BANG!"

Blew a hole through his hand. Why was he showing this with a fully loaded weapon? Because stupid is as stupid does. This was over 30 years ago and I still laugh about it.


----------



## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Another Einstein...


----------



## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

One other thing I will add. A statement by Clint Eastwood on the current copy of the movie of The Outlaw Josey Wales. One of the additional segments was Eastwood himself talking about a movie made years before and why the gun used had a cartridge conversion kit when they didn't exist till 3 years after the period the picture was shot in. Well when he went to Italy and started making the string of spaghetti westerns one of the Armour on the first movie was showing the cast how to load and shot a cap and ball, civil war era hand gun. Well he didn't cover the ball with grease as needs to be done and got a chain fire. It scared Eastwood so bad he insisted on a cartridge conversion for every civil war gun from that moment on. Now one was hurt but the gun came apart. Now that was a mistake on a "expert" gun handler that wasn't paying attention and not an accident in my opinion but stupidity in this case.


----------



## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

paraquack said:


> We are all human and subject to human failings. While I agree with you that an accidental discharge is 99.9% + the result of not following standard safety practices, we all make stupid *mistrakes.*. So what was he doing when the accident happened?


Apparently he was in the office area chillin' after completing a round through the nursing home and was happy jacking around with his gun. Peliminary investigation revels there was no malfunction of the gun and that it worked as advertised the way it was designed to when its loaded and you take the safety off and pull the trigger! That tells me right off the bat that there were a lot of things going on that had no business happening in that environment or situation. Hence my lack of understanding and sympathy. Granted I understand we are human and we make mistakes if we did not then I could walk on water without it first being frozen! The thing is there wasnt just one mistake here. In this case it would appear that there was many mis-steps any one of which probably would have prevented the out come or at least minimized the odds of someone being struck by a bullet! There are just some mistakes you cant afford to make...to my way of thinking, this is one of them!


----------



## Kidzthinkimahoarder (Feb 11, 2013)

LunaticFringeInc said:


> 1. The first question I have is why did knumb nuts have his handgun out of his holster anyways unless there was a threat that needed to be addressed. The guys a security guard at a retirement home and there is more action going on at the funeral home than there is there at 0110 in the morning. Just saying. That was mistake number 1.
> 
> 2. The second mistake...was why did homey have the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction? One of the first things of gun safety you should have been taught is all guns are loaded until other wise proven and you dont point them at ANYTHING you do not want to DESTROY, MAIM or KILL!
> 
> ...


No, I don't care to disagree with you. You are right on every way..........And if the truth be told, there is no telling what he was honestly doing when the gun discharged. He may have been striking a Charlie Angels pose and admiring his shadow...

My son was about 12 and let a 30-30 go off one day. He was letting the hammer back down, and the gun went off and shot a hole through the floor board of my husbands hunting rig. My husband who had stopped smoking for about 6 months promptly lit one up, and my son was Barney Fife'd *again* the rest of the season with a single shot shotgun and one shell in his pocket.


----------



## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd agree sounds more like a Negligent Discharge than an Accidental Discharge. To me an Accidental Discharge can only occur when there is a malfunction of the firearm (think stuck free floating firing pin), if it's operator error it's negligent. When I was a kid my father used to tell me if you handle guns long enough sooner or later one is going to go off when you don't want it too. This is why he used to hammer me about gun safety, he was a stickler about it for sure and it's definitely something that's stayed with me and is currently being drilled into my boys.

-Infidel


----------



## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I had an "accidental discharge" once. I was staying in downtown San Francisco and one night there was a 5.1 earthquake. I discharged about 4 pounds directly into my shorts! (Yeah - you California guys can make fun of me all you want. In Minnesota, the ground is the one constant in an ever changing world.)

In regard to your coworker shooting himself, I put that down to nature trying to weed out the stupid...


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I haven't had any such problems but I carry with an empty chamber, it is hard to shoot yourself with an unloaded gun.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Meangreen said:


> No such thing as an accidental discharge, only a negligent discharge. The ATF "agent" in the video, is a perfect example why affirmative action is a bad bad idea.


Yah? Just look at what's in the White House.


----------



## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

Montana Rancher said:


> I haven't had any such problems but I carry with an empty chamber, it is hard to shoot yourself with an unloaded gun.


Hard to shoot a BG too.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Well, if untrained people are so dangerous to themselves maybe we should send some guns to the big guy in the house on the hill...........
Due to the ammo shortage we should send ammo with the guns.


----------



## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

paraquack said:


> Yah? Just look at what's in the White House.


Yes also known as exhibit B.

The real kicker to the story is that the agent in that video sued the ATF claiming that because the video was leaked it ruined his career as an undercover officer and that it was racially motivated. He won the case.


----------



## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Inor said:


> I had an "accidental discharge" once. I was staying in downtown San Francisco and one night there was a 5.1 earthquake. I discharged about 4 pounds directly into my shorts! (Yeah - you California guys can make fun of me all you want. In Minnesota, the ground is the one constant in an ever changing world.)
> 
> In regard to your coworker shooting himself, I put that down to nature trying to weed out the stupid...


I too had an accidental discharge once, but ya gotta give me a break. I was 16, she was 20 and HAWT...


----------



## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)




----------



## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

What kind of gun was the security guard using - anyone know?

I am thinking Glock....


----------



## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Verteidiger said:


> What kind of gun was the security guard using - anyone know?
> 
> I am thinking Glock....


I dont know what the gun was just that it was an auto loader which was chambered for the 9mm, 40 S&W or 45 ACP as thats the only calibers authorized on your "Wonder Woman" belt. We got 3 x 1911's, 1 x Beretta 92 and the rest are Glocks. I can account for the three 1911's (Im one of them...) so that kinda narrows it down a little...


----------



## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I have worked with electricity for the past 34 years. When you get too comfortable with it, or lose respect for it, is when you get into trouble. The exact same thing can be said about firearms.


----------



## wallyLOZ (May 12, 2013)

My CCW instructor hated Glock's. He relayed a story about a St. Louis Co. police officer at a local range. It was a training day for the Officers. When given the order to cease fire and holster your firearm, he brushed back his jacket with his left hand, went to holster his Glock. The draw string and toggle on his jacket flipped back and through the trigger guard, as he holstered, "Glock leg", as my instructor relayed. Don't know if there's any truth to it other than as an example from a Glock hating instructor! Still don't own a Glock though.


----------



## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

There are no "accidental" discharges only "negligent" discharges.


----------



## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

This well-known youtube vid has a police firearms expert showing kids how to put a Glock slug into their foot..


----------



## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Speachless


----------



## exmilitary (Jun 17, 2013)

Very few people can carry conceal and carry in Canada. But if we were allowed to, i would NOT carry with a round in the chamber. 
The video I watched there tells me that these people are negligent.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I carry with one ready for launch with no problem. Then again, the bullet-launcher is handled as if it dangerous if mishandled. 
Incidents can occur to anyone, regardless of carry config, once one lets his guard down.

We are all human and I reserve judgement against humans who make human errrorz. :grin:


----------



## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

I never keep a round in the chamber of a semi-automatic. I do not expect to get in a quick draw contested. Carrying left handler can result in an accidental move to the fire position.

Regardless I always cycle the gun after removing the clip. No one calls it a clip anymore.

All guns are considered loaded.

How a police officer can unload his weapon properly is beyond understanding.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

They were never called clips by hose who knew better. 
There are autos with ambidextrous safeties, for you south paws. My PT1911AR is a very good example. Not that I have it, anymore. Son wanted it, and gave me back my 24/7. I am good with that. Nice that he likes the 1911. I like whatever I have And the EDC is the MilPro PT145, anyway.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

PalmettoTree said:


> I never keep a round in the chamber of a semi-automatic. I do not expect to get in a quick draw contested. Carrying left handler can result in an accidental move to the fire position.
> 
> Regardless I always cycle the gun after removing the clip. No one calls it a clip anymore.
> 
> ...


By the way, pistols are "autos." As in, automatic centerfire pistol.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Dang, this tablet is a lousy thing for posting. I apologize for the misspellings and other grammatical screw-ups.


----------



## www.BigBugOutTrucks.com (Mar 14, 2013)

I bought a new JBL spear gun over the weekend, on the second time I fired the spear gun when I clicked the safety off it discharged without pulling the trigger! I have never had a weapon do this. Im thankful I was treating it with caution and had it aimed at the target when I removed the safety! The model was JBL Super Carbine 46 Inch Speargun.


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

www.BigBugOutTrucks.com said:


> I bought a new JBL spear gun over the weekend, on the second time I fired the spear gun when I clicked the safety off it discharged without pulling the trigger! I have never had a weapon do this. Im thankful I was treating it with caution and had it aimed at the target when I removed the safety! The model was JBL Super Carbine 46 Inch Speargun.


Glad you were following protocall. Have zero experience with spearguns, but would love to go try..


----------



## www.BigBugOutTrucks.com (Mar 14, 2013)

I returned it today for a more expensive one! The new one should be in Friday! I don't have a lot of experience with them either but I did it by the book. That spear gun has good reviews so dont judge it because I got a bad one! The handle was plastic so I bought the JBL explorer 20 It is higher quality and has a cast aluminum handle. "Divers Supply" gave me the best deal and had no issue with me returning the defective one and exchanging it for the better one at no extra cost! The say they will beat any internet prices too! I couldn't be happier with their professional attitude!



Deebo said:


> Glad you were following protocall. Have zero experience with spearguns, but would love to go try..


----------



## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Denton said:


> By the way, pistols are "autos." As in, automatic centerfire pistol.


I do not care what name you hang on any gun, if you must pull the trigger each time to send a round down range it is not an automatic.

Differentiating revolvers from magazine fed hand by calling the mag fed guns automatic is and was a marketing took. The two use different clambering mechanics. Neither of them is in anyway "automatic."

You can name your dog Cat and teach it to come to you. But calling it Cat does not make it a cat.


----------



## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Accidental Discharge is that like premature e... _No I guess not. Is it more like the Chinese trots? No I don't think it is that either. Neither is deadly_well not directly. There was one more word play but I will not go there.

One thing is for sure Accidental Discharge can be prevented.


----------



## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

FINGER OFF TRIGGER ALWAYS!,untill you have your target lined up.way too many people think they can draw faster with their finger on the trigger,some of us can achieve this feat,most cannot.alot of fools will unconsciously re-holster with the finger on the trigger, some time ago that was known as glock leg,you have to consciously make sure you have your finger off the trigger when you re-holster.never play cops and robbers or goof off with your firearm unless you see empty cylinders or rack the slide a few times.. just my 2 cents, been around guns for years and never,never had an AD.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

PalmettoTree said:


> I do not care what name you hang on any gun, if you must pull the trigger each time to send a round down range it is not an automatic.
> 
> Differentiating revolvers from magazine fed hand by calling the mag fed guns automatic is and was a marketing took. The two use different clambering mechanics. Neither of them is in anyway "automatic."
> 
> You can name your dog Cat and teach it to come to you. But calling it Cat does not make it a cat.


I know it is hard to admit when one is wrong, but you can do it.

The automatic centerfire pistol (ACP) automatically loads the next round into the chamber. It doesn't mean it fires until the trigger is released.

You simply can't recognize a cat when staring at it and prefer not to learn. Not my problem, sorry. :lol:


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

www.BigBugOutTrucks.com said:


> I bought a new JBL spear gun over the weekend, on the second time I fired the spear gun when I clicked the safety off it discharged without pulling the trigger! I have never had a weapon do this. Im thankful I was treating it with caution and had it aimed at the target when I removed the safety! The model was JBL Super Carbine 46 Inch Speargun.


Just looked at my Rhino and saw that it has a safety. Never knew that! I treat the speargun with more respect than my every day carry, as there is such a 3-D element to diving and I'd hate to shoot my son. He shoots back.


----------

