# I lost $20 today



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Losing a bet on shooting to your brother in law is as bad as it gets. 
My brother in law has a $89 russian mosin WWII rifle and he shoots surplus ammo and at almost 
100 yards he busted a can of beans,,Open sights with a good rest. Damn I hate to lose to him. 
He gets his deer every year with this rifle usually a head shot. I should have known better than
to bet with a hillbilly *******. -Darn,,, I wish I could do that.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Were you shooting his rifle too?
If not what were you shooting? Make, model and caliber?


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

There is an old saying about being careful around the man who only owns one rifle, . . . 

Same goes for "wagering" with in-laws, . . . 

Glad it was only a twenty, . . . 

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

PaulS said:


> Were you shooting his rifle too?
> If not what were you shooting? Make, model and caliber?


 No I wasn't shooting at all I was just watching him. But when I do shoot
I use a 7mm 08 ,, But I'm just not that good of a shot as he is.


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I got the same problems at times. Damn shame to need a bipod, good scope, and a target that won't move to be any good at hitting it (that's me).



budgetprepp-n said:


> No I wasn't shooting at all I was just watching him. But when I do shoot
> I use a 7mm 08 ,, But I'm just not that good of a shot as he is.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Much better then loosing to your mother in law.

Does he target shoot often. I think you answered your own post though "I should have known better than to bet with a hillbilly *******".


----------



## HVU (Dec 23, 2012)

the nagant was classed as a marksman rifle instead of a combat/battle rifle by many.. I own one myself and the classic russian design is hard to beat.. even most modern bolt actions would have real competition against a nagant.. my tip is to never bett against a man with a nagant


----------



## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

Some of those old Mosins are fantastic shooters. You get a lot for your money with the Mosin, hell even with el cheapo surplus ammo out of a spam can my Mosin will usually produce 3" groups at 100yds with iron sight. I'd love to get my hands on a Finish Mosin, they're supposed to be the best shooters of all of them.

-Infidel


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I think from what I've read you can expect almost 2 MOA with the Mosin, supposedly the most accurate rifle of it's time which compared to modern day rifles isn't saying much.

I don't care much for 100 year old rifles, I'm sorry they do well at point blank range but I like the option of reaching out and touching someone. If you aren't ready to take a shot at 400 yards it isn't a real sniper rifle.


----------



## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

Montana Rancher said:


> I think from what I've read you can expect almost 2 MOA with the Mosin, supposedly the most accurate rifle of it's time which compared to modern day rifles isn't saying much.
> 
> I don't care much for 100 year old rifles, I'm sorry they do well at point blank range but I like the option of reaching out and touching someone. If you aren't ready to take a shot at 400 yards it isn't a real sniper rifle.


And 400 yds is just the starting point any more.. I would start practicing if I were you.. Perfect practice makes perfect!!


----------



## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

I sort of have a thing for Curio and Relic battle rifles as a hobby. Obviously not my first choice if I ever need to use a rifle in real life, but here in North Texas a Mosin would actually make a decent deer and pig rifle. It's often called the $100 30-06 for a reason.

I do have one relic that if I had to make a 400+ yard shot with I feel pretty comfortable with, and that's my Enfield. I wouldn't want to rely on old surplus ammo in that situation though. I'd hate like hell to have to drag that thing around for any great amount of time or distance though. Sumbiotch is heavy, lol. Gotta love a 10 rd bolt action rifle that shoots a cartridge that German soldiers protested was inhumane in not one, but two wars. The bolt design makes it one of the fastest cycling bolt actions ever as well.


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

PrepConsultant said:


> And 400 yds is just the starting point any more.. I would start practicing if I were you.. Perfect practice makes perfect!!


Haha from a person living in the flatlands!

My maximum shot from my OP is 311 yards because of trees, nap of the earth, etc.

When you live in the prairie you can expect 400+ shots but they are tricky and over 500 is just for experts.

But if you can hit a pie plate at 600 yards, anything below that is gravy.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

HVU said:


> the nagant was classed as a marksman rifle instead of a combat/battle rifle by many.. I own one myself and the classic russian design is hard to beat.. even most modern bolt actions would have real competition against a nagant.. my tip is to never bett against a man with a nagant


A couple years ago Guns Magazine had an article by Mike Venturino. He and one of the head guys at Hornady did a test of WWII sniper rifles, using original WWII optics and original WWII ammo.
The rifles were a Mosin Nagant 91/30, a Mauser K98k, an Enfield No4MkI, and a Model 1903A4 Springfield. These were shot at ranges of 100 yards to 1,000 yards.
The results suprised both of them, me, and probably most others who read the article.
While some rifles were better than others at various ranges, the best overall and the only one to even hit the 1,000 yard target (a 4X8 sheet of plywood painted white) was the Mosin Nagant!!
Remember - original rifles, original optics, original ammo. Using modern optics and handloaded ammo I would not bet against the man with a Mosin Nagant either.


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> A couple years ago Guns Magazine had an article by Mike Venturino. He and one of the head guys at Hornady did a test of WWII sniper rifles, using original WWII optics and original WWII ammo.
> The rifles were a Mosin Nagant 91/30, a Mauser K98k, an Enfield No4MkI, and a Model 1903A4 Springfield. These were shot at ranges of 100 yards to 1,000 yards.
> The results suprised both of them, me, and probably most others who read the article.
> While some rifles were better than others at various ranges, the best overall and the only one to even hit the 1,000 yard target (a 4X8 sheet of plywood painted white) was the Mosin Nagant!!
> Remember - original rifles, original optics, original ammo. Using modern optics and handloaded ammo I would not bet against the man with a Mosin Nagant either.


I have heard this before, see my post above.

My only rebuttal is that Camp Perry still hosts the 1000 yard competition and you won't find a single Mosin there.

Yes in its time it was a kick assed weapon, with current ammo and current loads, the M1/M14 will outshoot it every day.

Oh and they needed to create a special class for the "old calibers", as the M16/AR15 platform will wipe the floor with all of them.


----------



## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

Montana Rancher said:


> Haha from a person living in the flatlands!
> 
> My maximum shot from my OP is 311 yards because of trees, nap of the earth, etc.
> 
> ...


Flatlands I am not.. We have a mixture here in the breaks..


























Here are a few pics of different views from our place.. The distances range from around 100yds in certain areas to upwards of 1500yds or more in other directions.. I saw about a hundred elk this morning between 4-700yds and a few deer (whitetail and a few mulies)as close as 200. I saw a bighorn the other evening at 600..


----------



## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Montana Rancher said:


> I have heard this before, see my post above.
> 
> My only rebuttal is that Camp Perry still hosts the 1000 yard competition and you won't find a single Mosin there.
> 
> ...


I shot a 1000 yd steel site event at Camp Pendleton once. While I did score hits with every shot, I was no where near the skill level of the other military shooters who happened to be full blown snipers. They thanked me for playing, but did congratulate me on doing as well as I did. I was shooting an HK 91 with a bull barrel and a little bit of massaging/tuning.

I'm much older, higher resting heart rate, and worse eye sight now. That's why they make optics, but a 1000 yd shot is probably not in my bag of trick anymore without a ton of practice and it ain't easy for me to find a 1000 yd range close enough to do that. I would strongly suggest not volunteering to hold the target from 600 yds in though.


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Aye

For anyone that had done long range shooting even at your peak it is a proverbial bitch.

At 52 I don't mess with anything over 600 yards in the field


----------



## HVU (Dec 23, 2012)

If i want range then Id just use my 1898 Krag jørgensen rifle, it's the rifle that revolutionised weapons in the years leading to the first MG's. A good shot thats practiced with it a lott can hit human sized targets up to 600 meters.. the germans feared it when they invaded Norway and Denmark, every time they heard a shot from it they new that one of their soldiers had died. and to think that now its not even legal to shoot raindeers with them xD but still, the 30.06 version hasnt failed me yet. its a very complicated design and it jams about every 400 rounds tho so you need experience with them if your going to activly use them... 
The finish Mosins had a very simple design, it was made to be mass produced, and they were made in such a way that even the finnish soldiers with nearly no training and little experience could become a crackshot with it. it is the rifle that currently holds the most sniper kills in the world. The man that gave it this place was Simo Hayha, aka the white death, killed over 1000 russians during the winter war and he passed away not to long ago.
The KJ rifle was also Norways gift to america, we gave you this rifle desgin and the recipe for smokeless powder. Its known as the rifle used by the rough riders in the states.


----------

