# Bug In Nation - Preserving your community



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Rather than respond to every topic in the subforum I'll open a general redux thread for tips and questions about urban, suburban or rural bug in. I'll start with a tip-

Voice Tube 
We used to play with this as kids, talking through a garden hose.
On older ships voice tubes ran throughout it to the bridge. There was a plug closing off the tube that contained a whistle and blowing in the tube made a tweet at the other end.
I've never used a really long one but have used 50' ones. There is some change in voice quality but nothing major.
You could run a buried hose to your neighbor's house and gossip. This has to be used like radio with "over" or "out".
A whistle plug would be a hassle - instead I would make a plug that pops from the hose when you blow in it. This plug is attached with a string with a jingle bell to alert you.
I would rig one so that I could speak to someone outside without being behind a door or window (they wouldn't know where I am inside or even if I am inside). There would be a note how to use the tube.
You can have lookout posts connected to a central point with these, or defensive positions linked with them.

This is ideal for high density communities or homes close together, but less so in rural neighborhoods.
I would armor my house so it isn't easy to break in or shoot into and use the tube.
In a neighborhood where homes are too far apart I would provide 12ga "screamer" rounds. These give off a loud shriek and tracer when fired up in the air (ATF got their mitts on bird bombs but screamers are unregulated).
In bootcamp they used to wake us by banging a trashcan with a tent post - horrible racket - a trash can beaten with a mop handle would make a good area alarm. Better still would be a big cowbell mounted on the roof and worked with a cable (safer). The idea is that an on duty lookout can raise a general alarm and wake everyone up to rescue those under attack.

Now that would be _fun_.

Any questions or tips chime in-

(remember opsec please)


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Never heard of the voice tube. Interesting. Wouldn't work for me since my neighbors are about half a mile down the road but I can see the value in the suburbs. The bell alarm is also a good tip. Growing up, all of us kids were outside dawn to dusk playing. When it came time to eat momma would step outside and ring the triangle she had hanging by the porch. It was loud enough to be heard for a long ways and all of us would come running when she rang it.

There are several threads on here about perimeter alarms. A couple I remember were setup using fishing line, mousetrap and either glowsticks or capgun rings. Your choice if you want visual or audio alert. It could help with guarding your area at night. And its cheap.


----------



## ARDon (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm in the same situation, I'm in farming country were my neibghbors are spread out by vast amounts of acreage. It's just the wife & I so their only so much 2 can do. We do not want to get involved with groups or pal up with neighbors @ 1st do to us not trusting people in post SHTF time @ 1st. We figure time will tell when trust will come. We have solar power motion lights (several) on & thorough out a round our home, shops & out building. We have driveway alarm system that sounds off in the shop (business) & our home when some one drives or walks in. Were woke up by it by deer crossing the beam middle of the night. Our dogs alert us when someone pulls up or is on our property around the home & out buildings. I have such a big piece of land that it would be hard to secure it all. But around the house & shops & outbuildings you can only do so much to your home "for us" not attacting attention to it with, plus the 2 of us. We've secured our door jambs by reinforce door frame kits, & added door club & extra dead bolts. But nothing will stop a 7.62X39 or heavier going threw walls of your home. Thats when a contingency plan is a must.


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Arklatex said:


> Never heard of the voice tube. Interesting. Wouldn't work for me since my neighbors are about half a mile down the road but I can see the value in the suburbs. The bell alarm is also a good tip. Growing up, all of us kids were outside dawn to dusk playing. When it came time to eat momma would step outside and ring the triangle she had hanging by the porch. It was loud enough to be heard for a long ways and all of us would come running when she rang it.
> 
> There are several threads on here about perimeter alarms. A couple I remember were setup using fishing line, mousetrap and either glowsticks or capgun rings. Your choice if you want visual or audio alert. It could help with guarding your area at night. And its cheap.


Rural is my desmenes (I "bugged out" decades ago) and I've done more work in that area than elsewhere.
I know my neighbors (the ones I'd have to look out for) and regardless of warnings to post a lookout they'd all be asleep at night.
I can make sure their house is armored enough that it would take 15 minutes of sledgehammer to bust in once they button up for the night - that would wake them up.

I don't have a problem with that because I want them to sleep at night without jumping up at every sound. Stress becomes a major crazy factor in shtf and needs to be countered. I worked them all day and they got just enough food to kill hunger pangs, so at least the normalcy of a night's sleep would matter.

Really isolated homes are a lot harder to defend by group action - they'd probably have to ride it out until daylight. In a case like that I'd recommend a communal night safety bunker that isolated residents could spend the night in - but their homes would probably get looted. Those losses can be rebuilt with group action.

In my area I would organize an evening foot patrol so people can have a fire outside and enjoy an hour after dark - and see the armed patrol go by. Morale is everything.

One man would have to be awake at all times to listen for alarms - that would be a lot easier than having someone awake at every home (and whoever mans the night post gets light duty next day - and coffee).


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

ARDon said:


> I'm in the same situation, I'm in farming country were my neibghbors are spread out by vast amounts of acreage. It's just the wife & I so their only so much 2 can do. We do not want to get involved with groups or pal up with neighbors @ 1st do to us not trusting people in post SHTF time @ 1st. We figure time will tell when trust will come. We have solar power motion lights (several) on & thorough out a round our home, shops & out building. We have driveway alarm system that sounds off in the shop (business) & our home when some one drives or walks in. Were woke up by it by deer crossing the beam middle of the night. Our dogs alert us when someone pulls up or is on our property around the home & out buildings. I have such a big piece of land that it would be hard to secure it all. But around the house & shops & outbuildings you can only do so much to your home "for us" not attacting attention to it with, plus the 2 of us. We've secured our door jambs by reinforce door frame kits, & added door club & extra dead bolts. But nothing will stop a 7.62X39 or heavier going threw walls of your home. Thats when a contingency plan is a must.


Line your bedroom with two feet of sandbags inside and make the door sledgehammer proof. Two layers of sandbag stop most small arms. Cut a hole in the floor for an escape hatch if they torch the house. Have a mini-bunker in the room in case they shoot down through the roof.
All I can suggest.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Interesting ideas. I have a couple of black labs that let me know when someone or something is about. I have heard of and seen voice tunes used.


----------



## ARDon (Feb 27, 2015)

the problem with that I see is you have neighbors that do not see things that others do. What I mean by this is NOT all neighbors are the same as you by using a weapon to defend themselves. The hardcore question is "can you rely on your neighbor pulling the trigger on someone @ the moments notice when a do or die situation?" It only take a split second before your dead by some one (marauder's)bullet who wouldn't hesitate where your neighbor could. It just takes one mistake and its all over for everybody. We preppers prepare ourselves for many situations. We hope for the best & prepare for the worst. My wife & I spent a vacation taking tactical train in AZ. Plus my close dear friend is a retire SWAT leader which contributed to Sally & I's training. This is why in a do or die crisis where weapons will or are engaged, I know for ceratin she has my 6 "backside" as well I have her's. This is were "trust" comes to a factor. Known some one next door or down the road from ya is one thing but truly known some one is reality and that reality is needed in a real deal post SHTF happens. Other wise as the saying goes.....say & doing are two different things altogether. This is where you need someone that is "willing" to go to the lengths or even death to protect you & others. Re-action time is the factor in a hardcore do or die situation, quick & accurate decision making is needed and if your neighbor doesn't have this, he or she will end up dead along with many others. This is why I mention trust. Power in numbers are a great thing, but if they are not able to pull the trigger on some one or some bodies or even die for your group, then what use are they. This is why our military is the best in the world, we all or most of us have experienced this, that tight net comradery bond is like no other between soldiers where we would die for our brothers in arms. This IMO is what is needed in a group or neighborhood group, if not they will only get themselves killed along with others. This is why I say my wife will take a bullet for me as I would for her. Can your neighbors?


----------



## ARDon (Feb 27, 2015)

Anthonyx said:


> Line your bedroom with two feet of sandbags inside and make the door sledgehammer proof. Two layers of sandbag stop most small arms. Cut a hole in the floor for an escape hatch if they torch the house. Have a mini-bunker in the room in case they shoot down through the roof.
> All I can suggest.


sorry but most homes will not be able to hold up the weigh of sand bags. I'm not trying to tear down your post, but put logic & reality behind it, the average sand bag is 14"x26" @ 50lbs (X)'s what ever to build up a decent amount 150 to 200 across one wall & 2 deep is about 7,500 to 12,000 lbs. Most home foundations are engineered for load barring. You put that much weight on one particular area & go over that weigh limit you will have serious structural failures especially on a raised foundation as you are describing in your post. Sand bags only hold up so long, the sand will drain leaving vulnerable areas were bullets will go threw, trying to build a fortress out of your home will NOT do. Again you can only do so much in reality. They will get what you have and you will lose. You can only bug in for so long until you have to bug out & known when to bug out is the 1st step that is why you must know when the time is right to bug out having contingency plan to follow along with BOB or bug out totes with your supplies. Safety & logical thinking is always 1st that part of survival.


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Don't do it then - fine with me.


----------



## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

ARDon said:


> sorry but most homes will not be able to hold up the weigh of sand bags. I'm not trying to tear down your post, but put logic & reality behind it, the average sand bag is 14"x26" @ 50lbs (X)'s what ever to build up a decent amount 150 to 200 across one wall & 2 deep is about 7,500 to 12,000 lbs. Most home foundations are engineered for load barring. You put that much weight on one particular area & go over that weigh limit you will have serious structural failures especially on a raised foundation as you are describing in your post. Sand bags only hold up so long, the sand will drain leaving vulnerable areas were bullets will go threw, trying to build a fortress out of your home will NOT do. Again you can only do so much in reality. They will get what you have and you will lose. You can only bug in for so long until you have to bug out & known when to bug out is the 1st step that is why you must know when the time is right to bug out having contingency plan to follow along with BOB or bug out totes with your supplies. Safety & logical thinking is always 1st that part of survival.


You're absolutely correct.

The only way to go is UNDERGROUND. Our master plan is to build underground self-contained living quarters, and booby-trap our above-ground home, for when the liberals come to steal what they can from our home.

It'll be a dream come true. Dead liberals strewn around the inside of our home, while we are safely underground. :rulaiz:


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

okayyyyy

Food and Water
I have calculated how many neighbors would need food and the minimum amount for at least 6 months.
This is a bottom figure and at least a year would be optimal. This supply would be mainly staples; rice, beans, salt and seed. The seed is both crop seed and sprouting seed. Sprouts add a nutritional value and help stretch out the staples and are easily grown indoors. I keep 50lb bags of rye grass seed in storage for seeding my land in winter, untreated kind. This would become sprout seed instead and is edible.

In the meantime every available foot of yard would be prepared for planting, both of food crop and seed crop - that means heirloom not hybrid seed. If there is little yard space then rooftops can be reinforced and planting beds set up (safe from thieves). What use would the street and sidewalks be? Haul in dirt and plant them. Walls can be hung with tomato or grape vines, even pole beans.

The object is enough stored food to last until a harvest obviously. This can be facilitated by organizing your neighbors into storing some staples themselves. A good idea would be to establish a safe storage in one place - an unoccupied dwelling that is guarded and locked. This could also serve as the cookhouse to minimize fuel waste.

The best source of water is rainwater from rooftops; even if polluted it can be used for washing and crop watering. Runoff is stored in ground pits lined with sheet plastic and protected with a wood cover. For potable water a large tarp is spread out to catch rainfall then stored in containers - as long as the tarps are cared for this will yield acceptable drinking water.

In the meantime the best way to store water for immediate use is in a waterbed or a backyard pool. This is one of the inexpensive above ground pools that hold a few hundred gallons - it is kept chemical free and covered with tarps, with the water changed and the pool cleaned on a regular basis.


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

So how many pounds of salt, beans, seeds, and rice did you calculate you would need for six months for...you didn't say, how many folks? And means to prepare said provisions?


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

As for water why not a nearby stream or lake and a berkey?


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

One cup cooked rice per person
One half cup cooked beans " "
Salt to taste
One half cup sprouts " "
Big pot
Fire

If you have a stream or lake go for it.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Anthonyx said:


> Rather than respond to every topic in the subforum I'll open a general redux thread for tips and questions about urban, suburban or rural bug in. I'll start with a tip-
> 
> Voice Tube
> We used to play with this as kids, talking through a garden hose.
> ...


Had a young recruit, showing his parents around an aircraft (C-130 I think) showed the voice tube to his parents and then demonstrates it. The 6 other guys on board had to run out of the aircraft to keep from barfing. For not AF guys, it was the urinal tube back in 1968.


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

:rofl3::rofl3:


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Trade - Barter
Commerce can be defined in a short sentence-
Food goes from the country to the city, manufactured goods go from the city to the country.
It's as simple as that and is what urban survivalists need to do. I have a small hobby garden for amusement, but in a PAW I would quickly expand that to acres. Most rural survivalists would do the same and there would be surpluses. All I need are seed, tools and some extra workers willing to work for food and water.
All urban survivalists need is materials, tools and some of the same type of worker. What they have is a greater source of materials; metal, brick, glass everywhere. Most of the population is near salt water, enabling the production of salt, the "refrigerant" of the PAW. There is also the opportunity for fishing - a small crew working on a shoreline can boil down salt from seawater, fish while doing it (love surfcasting) and then salt the fish for storage. The same can be done on rivers, except the fish is smoked.
There are plenty of options for urban survival if planning is used.
Take some time to note sources of metal available for taking, limiting yourself to just those items that wouldn't be needed any longer in a PAW. Highway signs - guardrails - light poles - billboards - abandoned vehicles.
Plate glass that would otherwise just get smashed. Rubber tires. Concrete that can be broken up and reused. Rebar from ferrocement. Aluminum cans. Glass bottles. These are your production materials.
Tools are simple to store before hand - hammers, saws, screwdrivers, files, hand drills and bits, axes, chisels and pliers. With these a lot of products can be made. Sheet metal is easy to work with.
What are some simple items you can make for trade? First of all you want items you can trade for food, which means something that people in the country need but can't get easily.
Lamps - think of "alladin's lamp" -looks kind of like a teapot. This lamp has a grip, a little cover, and a spout. The lamp that lit homes for thousands of years. The fill hole took olive oil and a wick of twisted bark was pushed down the spout, nothing simpler, burned for hours. Simple or ornate, single wick or many. The one you make is even simpler - a small square of sheet metal with 1" hammered down around the edges to form a small pan. Along the top edge bend the metal out a quarter inch to make a flange. A flat piece a quarter inch larger around with a fill and wick hole is laid atop the pan and the edge is crimped over the lower flange. A wood plug is carved to plug the fill hole and a wick is inserted. Add oil, light wick.
Some farmer whose only light is a fireplace might gladly trade a sack of corn or a laying hen for one.
Woodstoves - these are small simple affairs made using sheet metal with crimped edges - even the stove pipe. Basically just a box with air holes in the front, a lid covering the charging hole, and a flange for the stove pipe, and sheet metal legs. Simplicity itself, but a life or death item - good for cooking and heating. 
A farmer whose only stove and heater is a fireplace might gladly trade more than a sack of corn.
Garbage Cans - this only resembles a garbage can because it has a slight taper. Sheet metal, crimped. Metal bottom, lid is sheet metal larger than the top of the can with a wood disk attached to the bottom that provides a tight fit, and a handle on top nailed in place. This is a storage and transport container that is ratproof and weatherproof. Again something of great value to a farmer or a shipper.
Just these three would be sufficient to carry on trade with farmers for food, but extra items like handmade knives could be added.
Transport - this could be a chicken or egg question - which came first, the product or the means to transport it? A lot of otherwise worthless items become valuable, once transport becomes available. Cattle became profitable after railroads came to the west. Cheap fresh beef for the tables of Boston and New York.
That won't be lost on the more energetic among us, and soon enough trade boats will be plying the rivers and canals. Merchants will appear to handle trade goods. This will benefit your trade, but if possible it is something your group should do as well asap.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

While I agree that you need to have the neighbors to help create a protective zone your 1st post makes it sound like you personally intend to store enough food for all of your neighbors along with seed for planting the neighbors yards too. While I agree with your 6 month minimum stored food supply to allow time to grow a food supply but it's simply unrealistic financially to put up enough supplies for the neighbors for that first 6 months. 

For most of us building up to 6 month food supply for our group is tough both financially and in many cases the storage room is strained with this 6 month amount. I can only hope that the neighbors can feed themselves although I have put away a bit for the few kids on my road but not even close to 6 months worth.


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

No way will 6 months get you through to a harvest.

I hear the same financial argument from people in my area. The same ones who have a tricked out $2000 rifle - and the chromed out Harley - and the Bass boat - and the 72" flatscreen with the Barcalounger.


----------



## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Anthonyx said:


> One cup cooked rice per person
> One half cup cooked beans " "
> Salt to taste
> One half cup sprouts " "
> ...


To get a decent amount of protein you need two parts cooked beans to one part rice.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

I agree that if things go bad during late summer or the fall 6 months of food may not be enough but it's a compromise I can accept with where I live and food availability in the area.

Having said that most of us can't financially justify a $22,000 Harley. Part of it is a quality of life issue.... Do I work 40 - 45 hrs a week to pay my bills and live debt free while enjoying the sunset from my back porch or do I work an additional 10 hours a week to stock up food for my neighbors in case there is a SHTF situation? 

I'm willing to help my neighbors occasionally because I know they will help me if needed but I'm simply not interested in working a lot to buy food for them if things ever go bad. Nor am I willing to pay for their health insurance and power bill. Most things a person needs to provide for themselves. I simply stock a bit of extra food for a few kids in the area since they shouldn't suffer because their parents didn't "buy the insurance" to prepare... and if their parents did prepare it's more food for me. That's as far as I'm willing to go.


----------



## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

6 months food for 1 person is $2600. $100 a week and that's running just with essentials. 

I have about a 10 month supply just for myself. It was a year, but I've been having to get into it because I lost my job. When I get money, I try to replace it, but it never happens. I KNOW I have $5k or better in food. Mostly canned goods, a LOT of pasta, beans, rice, tuna/chicken, etc. 

6 months for a whole neighborhood? Unless you're rich or getting the food for free, good luck.

And the space to store it? I'm lucky I have a huge pantry. I can keep about 3 months supply in there if I wanted to. But I keep about a month there, rest "hidden" in case of looters. 

Lets just say that everything in my house is "front faced". Retail workers know what that means 

I plan on bugging in for as long as possible. Will I help the neighbors? Only if they help me too. For example: I ask my neighbors for a cup of sugar (let's say I'm making something edible) if they say "yeah here you go", they get to come to dinner. If they have no sugar, then I'll ask for water to cook with. I'll keep asking until they have SOMETHING useful. I may not even USE what I ask for or even take it from them. I'll mainly be checking if they're willing to share


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

HuntingHawk said:


> To get a decent amount of protein you need two parts cooked beans to one part rice.


True there won't be any fatbodies when the harvest comes in.

If they don't like it they can opt for the Bug Out Diet - roast toad with pine needles.

Some of the toughest fighters I've ever seen fought a war and won on less - they didn't get any beans.


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

kevincali said:


> 6 months food for 1 person is $2600. $100 a week and that's running just with essentials.
> 
> I have about a 10 month supply just for myself. It was a year, but I've been having to get into it because I lost my job. When I get money, I try to replace it, but it never happens. I KNOW I have $5k or better in food. Mostly canned goods, a LOT of pasta, beans, rice, tuna/chicken, etc.
> 
> ...


I buy monthly. This month I bought 180lbs of rice and 80lbs of beans - $164. Walmart
12x164=1968
164/4=41
260/30=8.66
That's 8.66lbs a day _uncooked_.


----------



## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Ok, so $41 a week for just beans and rice. What about variety? Beans and rice gets kinda old real quick. Maybe you want spaghetti a couple nights a week. Maybe you want to buy oatmeal or pancake mix for breakfast variety (unless you like beans and rice). Maybe you want tuna or canned chicken for lunch (could also get Shit Posing As Meat, or canned ham too I suppose.)

To me those are all basics. Anything above that is a luxury (milk, sodas, cheese, butter etc) and might not be around post SHTF. 

Plus, different parts of America have different priced goods. Here in commiefornia, it's near $20 for a 20lb bag of beans. So 180 lbs would be $180

I suppose it's cheaper the farther east you go.


----------



## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

The further east you go the smaller your paycheck gets.

Are you aware (assuming you're euro) that you're alive because your ancestors were immune to pneumonic Yersinia Pestis infection? Killed nearly half the population of Europe.
Go back further and your ancestors worked from dawn to dusk on a diet of bread and some olive oil.


----------



## DadofTheFamily (Feb 19, 2015)

Rice and beans is good but not all the time. You need some balance. Carbs, Protein, Fats and Live Foods together will keep you healthier in the long run. All of these, except the live foods, can be stored successfully long term. Live foods can be grown or foraged. "Green foods" tablets can substitute in a pinch. Remember, in total WROL, disease will be more prevalent. Strong immune systems are as important as strong physical fortifications. Eat well, live well.


----------

