# Bible prophecies



## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Okay I've been hearing about many things that some people think are the bibles prophecies coming true. The mark of the beast, the 7 trumpets, the antichrist and much more. Now these have ranged from ww2, Chernobyl, the war in the middle east, drones, and all the earthquakes happening being part of the 7 trumpets. I've also herd some people say the pope, obama, and others being the antichrist. And last but not least the micro-chips being the mark of the beast. What are your thoughts on this.


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

Bible prophecies have happened several hundred times....viking raids of England were considered to be one. The fall of Rome another. So was the qing dynasty of China....if they we were to believe them, the world would have ended several times over...honestly any religious prophecies are all bullshit in my opinion.


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## SecTec21 (Jul 27, 2013)

The things you mentioned are found in the Bible in the book of Revelation. The easiest to understand work on the book of Revelation I have ever read is "Revelation Revealed" by Tim Lahaye.


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

I personally believe we are living near the last days, but not necessarily in them. The idea of a digital currency, reliant on a "mark", is something that previously wasn't possible, yet is only a few years away. Russia on the ascent, the United States on the decline, the revival of Islam, and a rise in Antisemitism all are worrying signs. I understand that people have been predicting the end of the world since the Fall of Rome, but, at least in Christian Eschatology, an important part was always ignored/forgotten: Israel. Ignoring the non-Biblical replacement theology that the Church has historically clung to, Israel is crucial to Christian eschatology, and is the center piece to all of it. Without the nation of Israel having been regathered from the nations, for a second time, Revelations doesn't make sense. Nor does Daniel, or really any other Biblical end times reference. Before the 20th Century, there was no Nation of Israel, and the Jewish people had been scattered across the globe. Fast-forward to today, and while there are a massive number of Jews living abroad, for the first time since the 1st Century, there is a Jewish nation in Israel, growing from immigrants. You may even say being "regathered from the Nations". Another sign, albeit a bad one, is isolation of Israel. Before, Israel had always had one or two friends or allies in the world. Briefly at first, it was the Soviet Union, then France. Since the '60s, it's been the United States. Now, however, the United States appears to be shying away from Israel, and leaving it alone. We're not quite there yet, but it's something to keep an eye on.

Eschatology is a somewhat tricky subject, and even among Born-Again, Bible-thumping Believers, you'll probably get a wide range of opinions. I disagree with a lot of "traditional" beliefs, and hold to a "Islamic Antichrist" theory. The Eschatology of Islam match of relatively well with that of Christianity.... only in reverse. _Islamic Antichrist _and _Mideast Beast_ both by Joel Richardson are good sources for this theory.

Off topic: Nephilim, it's ironic that you say "religious prophecies are all bullshit", but use a Biblical reference as your user name. :wink:


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

My opinion is John was referring to Rome. While in a Roman prison he was forced to use a lot of symbolism so his writings could be passed by the Roman guards. Additionally his writings were circular not circular logic but he would take one subject from start to finish then circling back to the start to pick up another subject. This was a writing discipline used in some languages.

I do not believe in NT prophecies. I do believe OT prophecies were fulfilled in the NT. Why NT prophecies and not NT I cannot say. My Biblical opinions have evolved over the years and will likely in the future.

I an slow to say others are wrong because I believe the Holy Spirit causes the word of God speaks to the needs of each of us.

I do disagree with those that say the Bible instructs us to commit violence like the Quran.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

PalmettoTree said:


> I do disagree with those that say the Bible instructs us to commit violence like the Quran.


Thank you very much!


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Every time you turn around, someone, somewhere, has been saying this is the end times. From Peter forward it has been going around. 

The first item that had to happen, only happened in 1948 when Israel became a state for the 1st time in centuries (several millennia in fact). This was critical because the start of the 7th week of Daniel begins with a 7 year covenant with Israel and the Arab nations. At that time the Temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices will resume. This will only last for 3 1/2 years though. I won't concern myself with the end times until I hear of the treaty. Once I hear about the treaty, well, I'll be damn scared. 

Daniel 9:27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.

Daniel 12:9-12 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end-time. Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1335 days."


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

firefighter72 said:


> Okay I've been hearing about many things that some people think are the bibles prophecies coming true. The mark of the beast, the 7 trumpets, the antichrist and much more. Now these have ranged from ww2, Chernobyl, the war in the middle east, drones, and all the earthquakes happening being part of the 7 trumpets. I've also herd some people say the pope, obama, and others being the antichrist. And last but not least the micro-chips being the mark of the beast. What are your thoughts on this.


Who knows, I think God only knows for sure.

There are lots of potentials I think unless you are a player things would just fall into place. People should just focus on living their lives. I think people with a firm sense of faith it really won't make a difference either way.

I thought a whole bunch of things could line up, I also thought that I detected a number of codes based on gog gle and the internet on old ma bell. Various world events even soduko puzzles Eastern and Western word plays from English to other langauges (issues of translation) and a whole ton of other things.

IMO this bible scripture stuff is just a way of creating thought processes to stimulate intuition and perception

There are a few difficulties though - for instance the bible even has a curse of sorts in it saying not to translate it. Yet English was not an orignal language of the original bibles - the vulgate wasn't even a whole peices but rather a selection of the sections of holy scripts that were opted to be put into the bible then of course the reformation resulted in "the bible" being widdled down even further.

Personally I think you need to take a holistic view. Ultimately though I believe in Messianic communication which means any message God has for me will be woven into my life, my life is communication with God, life is gods message to me, and I can only fullfill my purpose simply by living and doing what I believe is right, as it must be, but no in a neglectful way. I think that lots of christians arn't really living jesus's life instead they are part of cults - not the true church. Jesus was an old law Jew of the clan of David he followed "the law" not christian text. Christian text is a message about the life of Jesus, which lead to self sacrifice and crucifiction. Personally that makes no sense to me reality is totally insane if you peel the onion and actual deconstruct reality. Rather than being woven into the pattern of life that you have been indoctrinated into. I think seeing the big picture is important. While I have spent some time reading the bible and trying to get meaning, or create my own meaning from the bible, and I do beleive anything is possible regarding the bible acting as a portent. Oddly I think we need to understand that portenting with the bible was a sin in the church in days old. However even the mennonites and perhaps amish use it as a means of picking their leaders.

None the less, it makes no difference IMO. Personally I saw the seals as cycles, each seal is not just one opening but part of a spiral of sorts of layers of seals each repeating in time, but each creating another cycle of clues - like a calander - like celestial or mayan type , it is really really complex and I hyper analysed and deconstructed words and meanings using the internet - which ties into the 666 (jewish for WWW) world wide web. The bible also isn't the "only source of meaning" stuff interrelates. I think anyone who is part of the prophesy will end up finding information and it will come to them.

One of the things i was really surpised about was the arab spring.. (which is the time that the fig tree... spring time (in the arab world). There are other things.

My dad is/was a big bible prophesy person - of course he passed many of his thoughts on to me, however that was sort of the starting point for my own interpretation of the bible based upon my anthropological mindset, my minor study of history, and my delving lightly into world religion.

Ultimately thought I think it is a curiosity. A tie that binds people to adhere, or not (what dismal number of people saved to live on in life in the new jerusalem. Even the lights reflecting off lakes - makes most lakes I've been drawn to lakes of fire... even recently the reflection of three sparking lines of light reminded me of when I went semi unconcious after being closelined in the adams apple and thought I was swallowing it. Three lines dancing in the aboslute vacuum of space.

I think if anything these religious things speak to us and guide us.

I think the world is incredibly dark right now, however I have a sense of eternal life, and living my life not on biological grounds but based upon self fullfilling existence. This is not ignoring religion but rather having a fundamental foundation on what I believe is right and good, and inviting communication that will play with that which it must.

It is all self fullfilling. IMO you can really hyper analyse these things, and ultimately you are just acting in a way in self affirmation, creating your own culture, or cultural expectations, colouring your own existence.

Maybe, it makes no difference IMO, what will happen will happen - as humans we are temporal and linear creatures - regardless of what will be - I think what is important is being saved, and I believe in predestination, I don't beleive in sin - I think that if we are saved and have the right foundation then we will do what we have been delivered to do.

None the less I wouldn't call myself a nice person, nor have I had a heavenly life. I will say though that we should all live our lives like we were dead, and that means doing what is right, and living our life in firm faith and piety. Of course our views of this may be different.

I think in many ways the true church is just the one of acceptance and dedication act for good for humanity. What that humanity is is perhaps another item of discussion. We needn't be too consumed by these things because the police state views these sorts of things as madness, and they will lock you away and kill your freedom if you exercise heresy from the police state science industrial driven political nationhood that everyone is indoctrinated into, and forced to fall in line with.

Religious freedom and toleration don't really exist in my experience - there is only tolerance for major world religions with people towing accepted party lines. Anyone who isn't speaking from a major cult position is still branded a heretic and subjected to torture as a lunatic.

Of course there is more tolerance than 500 years ago, but there is still a long way to go until science is viewed as just another faith. There isn't much toleration for people to have their own worldviews.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Oh, this is going to be an interesting thread; I can feel it.

Remember, we are all friends. Right?

We of the Western World have been too ethnocentric in our understanding of the end-time prophesies, could it be? I'm asking, not asserting. Another viewpoint can be found in the writings of Walid Shoebat. A "Palestinian" born in Bethlehem who is now a Born-Again Christian, he sees the major players being of that region. If he is correct, the end times will hurt the feelings of the proud Americans who see America as being important and on the side of righteous up to the end.

Why am I pointing this out? Because we seem to love trying to nail down way too many things, and this has been perpetuated by way too many people selling way too many books.

We know that Israel became a nation in a day. We know that a whole lot of chess pieces are being positioned in the Middle East and Persia. We know that Turkey is no longer that secular Muslim nation once claimed to be the way Muslim nations could be. Russia is rising in power, and China is, too. 

What about America? Christianity has traversed the globe. America was the last torch-bearer, and it has allowed the torch to dim, considerably.

Are we looking at the end of the time of the Gentiles, when we were afforded the opportunity to receive Jesus as our personal savior? Are we nearing the time when the Great Restrainer will be lifted from the face of the earth and evil will be unrestrained? Even nonbelievers are feeling a chill in the air.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Israel becoming a nation again is NOT self fulfilling

When you see a 7 year peace treaty being signed with israel... that will start the last 7 years...

by the by... Tim Lahaye is wrong... the catching away (Rapture) will not happen until after the tribulation but before Gods Wrath...read Mathew 24


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Alpha-17 said:


> Eschatology is a somewhat tricky subject, and even among Born-Again, Bible-thumping Believers, you'll probably get a wide range of opinions. I disagree with a lot of "traditional" beliefs, and hold to a "Islamic Antichrist" theory. The Eschatology of Islam match of relatively well with that of Christianity.... only in reverse. _Islamic Antichrist _and _Mideast Beast_ both by Joel Richardson are good sources for this theory.


I agree with the Islamic Antichrist. It makes sense. The 12th Imam is a good parallel. Islam also believes that Jesus will work for the 12th Imam.



Alpha-17 said:


> Off topic: Nephilim, it's ironic that you say "religious prophecies are all bullshit", but use a Biblical reference as your user name. :wink:


Ya know, if he's right then it's no big deal. No one looses. BUT, if he's wrong..............


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Israel becoming a nation again is NOT self fulfilling


This is true. But it is a major piece of the puzzle.



Maine-Marine said:


> When you see a 7 year peace treaty being signed with israel... that will start the last 7 years...


That's when I will be getting the hell out of Dodge.



Maine-Marine said:


> by the by... Tim Lahaye is wrong... the catching away (Rapture) will not happen until after the tribulation but before Gods Wrath...read Mathew 24


Agreed. I think this is what the Bible is talking about in Revelation when it's said there will be a great falling away. People will find out that even the elect will have to endure the Tribulation. The upside is that we won't have it nearly as bad IMHO.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Oh, this is going to be an interesting thread; I can feel it.


Oh, you betcha! ::rambo::



Denton said:


> Remember, we are all friends. Right?


Well, maybe some of us. :lol:



Denton said:


> We of the Western World have been too ethnocentric in our understanding of the end-time prophesies, could it be? I'm asking, not asserting. Another viewpoint can be found in the writings of Walid Shoebat. A "Palestinian" born in Bethlehem who is now a Born-Again Christian, he sees the major players being of that region. If he is correct, the end times will hurt the feelings of the proud Americans who see America as being important and on the side of righteous up to the end.
> 
> Why am I pointing this out? Because we seem to love trying to nail down way too many things, and this has been perpetuated by way too many people selling way too many books.
> 
> ...


America is not mentioned at all in the final prophecy. As near as I can figure, we have been taken out as a world leader. George Washington's dream will come true before the final act.

And yes, we are getting closer to that time. Evil is rearing it's head and good is being denounced as intolerance and not good for the world. What was evil is now good and vice versa. smh.


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

Denton said:


> We of the Western World have been too ethnocentric in our understanding of the end-time prophesies, could it be? I'm asking, not asserting. Another viewpoint can be found in the writings of Walid Shoebat. A "Palestinian" born in Bethlehem who is now a Born-Again Christian, he sees the major players being of that region. If he is correct, the end times will hurt the feelings of the proud Americans who see America as being important and on the side of righteous up to the end.


This I have to agree with. I hate to break it to many of my fellow Americans, but the USA isn't God's new chosen people. We're in for some bad times, possibly a fall, before the end.



Maine-Marine said:


> by the by... Tim Lahaye is wrong... the catching away (Rapture) will not happen until after the tribulation but before Gods Wrath...read Mathew 24


I'll agree that a pre-Tribulation rapture doesn't entirely match up with scripture. I can understand the desire people have for it, but the mid-Tribulation rapture, or even end-Trib Rapture fit scripture a whole lot better in my opinion. The idea of being stuck in at least the begining of the Tribulation is enough of a reason to make me think prepping is a good idea.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Where are the other 10 tribes of Israel that are not in the country known as Israel? Once that is known,you will have a clue>

When Iran says it wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map,they are talking about all 12 tribes,not just Benjamin and Judah.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Here is a very interesting article. This one explains 2 Thessalonians much better, as well as the rapture, Satan's booting from Heaven and the abomination of desolation.

The Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

_God said to tyrant mideast regimes- "I am going to bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations..
you will die a violent death in the heart of the seas" (Ezekiel 28:7-10)_


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Denton said:


> Here is a very interesting article. This one explains 2 Thessalonians much better, as well as the rapture, Satan's booting from Heaven and the abomination of desolation.
> 
> The Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2


Good read, a little different viewpoint that what I had had though


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Here is a very interesting article. This one explains 2 Thessalonians much better, as well as the rapture, Satan's booting from Heaven and the abomination of desolation.
> 
> The Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2


The only issue I have with that article is he is saying satan is still in heaven.

Luke 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

inceptor said:


> The only issue I have with that article is he is saying satan is still in heaven.
> 
> Luke 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


And he knows he has a short time and woe to the inhabitants of the earth and sea


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> Where are the other 10 tribes of Israel that are not in the country known as Israel? Once that is known,you will have a clue>
> 
> When Iran says it wants to wipe Israel off the face of the map,they are talking about all 12 tribes,not just Benjamin and Judah.


The "Ten Lost Tribes" are kinda a misnomer, as survivors of the Northern Kingdom of Israel fled to the Southern Kingdom of Judah, and assimilated into that half of ancient Israel. Besides Benjamin and Judah, the Levites also would have been present in large number, as they were the "priestly" tribe, and thus would have been clustered around the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem, not in the Northern Kingdom. While it is true that large numbers of Jews were scattered by the Assyrians, they didn't simply become another people group, and become a modern country like many believe. The Jews taken into captivity either were assimilated by their new masters, loosing their Jewish culture and identity, or were able to hold on to it, and became isolated Jewish communities separated from the center of Jewish life in Israel. Examples of this include Beta Israel in Ethiopia, and Bnei Menashe, in India.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Some of the 10 tribes traveled as far as Scandinavia from what little research I have done. It is also suspected the did inhabit Europe including the UK


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> Good read, a little different viewpoint that what I had had though


I agree; it is different from how I was taught. It was my understanding that the restrainer was either the Holy Spirit or the church, which is the salt. This take is a bit different. Then again, it also fills in some holes that made other notions unwieldy.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> The only issue I have with that article is he is saying satan is still in heaven.
> 
> Luke 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.


Yes, but how do we rectify this with Revelation 12?


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Alpha-17 said:


> The "Ten Lost Tribes" are kinda a misnomer, as survivors of the Northern Kingdom of Israel fled to the Southern Kingdom of Judah, and assimilated into that half of ancient Israel. Besides Benjamin and Judah, the Levites also would have been present in large number, as they were the "priestly" tribe, and thus would have been clustered around the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem, not in the Northern Kingdom. While it is true that large numbers of Jews were scattered by the Assyrians, they didn't simply become another people group, and become a modern country like many believe. The Jews taken into captivity either were assimilated by their new masters, loosing their Jewish culture and identity, or were able to hold on to it, and became isolated Jewish communities separated from the center of Jewish life in Israel. Examples of this include Beta Israel in Ethiopia, and Bnei Menashe, in India.


GOD says the tribes are lost but HE knows where they are, even though they know not who or where they are.

I have no reference for this,I just remember. I could get a Concordance out and....


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## john10001 (Mar 20, 2013)

firefighter72 said:


> Okay I've been hearing about many things that some people think are the bibles prophecies coming true. The mark of the beast, the 7 trumpets, the antichrist and much more. Now these have ranged from ww2, Chernobyl, the war in the middle east, drones, and all the earthquakes happening being part of the 7 trumpets. I've also herd some people say the pope, obama, and others being the antichrist. And last but not least the micro-chips being the mark of the beast. What are your thoughts on this.





firefighter72 said:


> Okay I've been hearing about many things that some people think are the bibles prophecies coming true. The mark of the beast, the 7 trumpets, the antichrist and much more. Now these have ranged from ww2, Chernobyl, the war in the middle east, drones, and all the earthquakes happening being part of the 7 trumpets. I've also herd some people say the pope, obama, and others being the antichrist. And last but not least the micro-chips being the mark of the beast. What are your thoughts on this.


I believe what the Bible says. Every prophesy that has so far come to pass in the Bible has come to pass exactly as propecised. It's accuracy is 100%. There is roughly still 9 or 10% yet to be fulfilled.

Obama meets one or two of the criteria for anti-christ, and he certainly isn't very Christian IMHO he seems to be doing everything he can to arm the MB and AQ. However as bad as your president is I do not believe he is. He certainly isn't an economic genius LOL. Almost $18tn national debt and 8 of that on his watch, more than all other presidents in history combined. Obama appears to be heterosexual though I have heard one or two claim this not to be the case and bring up unprovable things allegedly from his past. The reference to having no love for his forefathers could well be a reference to the founding fathers but I tend to think it more a reference to bloodlines and race. So no. Obama is not the anti-christ IMHO just a very very very bad president.

The Bible is comprised of 66 books, and written by 40 different prophets, in three different languages, in three different continents and within the period of 1,500 years. Can anyone choose any 66 books written by 40 different authors in three different languages, in three different continents and within a period of 1,500 years, and find any kind of theme, purpose, harmony, and unity between any of them? II Timothy, chapter 3, verse 16: "All Scripture is inspired by God." All is a big word. In II Peter chapter 1, verse 20 and 21: "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but man moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

The bible was confirmed as authentic with the finding of the Dead Sea scrolls found by a Muslim boy Muhammed edh-Dhib (a shepherd) in the Qumran caves in Winter 1946/47 while looking for a lost sheep. Approximately 900 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible. Some of the only surviving copies of original biblical documents before 100bc. The manuscripts date from 150bc to 70ad. These ancient documents were written in three different languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek and confirmed as being identical to modern copies of the bible both Old and New Testaments.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

The above passage in 2 Timothy confirms that ALL scripture is inspired by God.

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

This confirms that all scripture was not the prophets' or mans' own interpretation but it was direct from God.

Some of the things explained in this book had many detailed prophecies about Jesus: his birth, life, death and resurrection and the re-creation of the state of Israel. Many of these prophecies came to pass just as God put them down in the Bible! What also amazed me was to find out that the chances for a man to predict hundreds of historic events written hundreds and thousands of years before their occurrences are one in zillions. What is more fascinating is that the margin of error had to be zero, especially when the fulfillment of many of these prophecies was happening in my generation. This kind of evidence had to come from a divine origin that origin had to be God Almighty.

The Bible is the only religious book in existence that dared to detail thousands of prophecies. These prophecies varied, some concerning the rise and fall of world empires. Many prophecies of the Bible have already been fulfilled.

In no other religious literature will you find hundreds of detailed predictions that have been fulfilled precisely as they were predicted. No human has ever presented such detailed predictions of future events. Those who point to the occasional lucky guess of Nostradamus, Jean Dickson, and other false prophets ignore the hundreds of totally incorrect predictions they also made.

God claims that the ability to predict and fulfil prophecy is a unique attribute of His nature, as He said: "For I am God, and there is no other; I am God and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, `My council shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure'" (Isaiah 46:9-10).

In this passage, the prophet Isaiah declares that only God foreknew future events, He also declares them and then brings them to pass. Also God said: "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18). 
The idea of Bible Prophecy is that God have drawn out his plan prior to its execution (from the beginning), as to prove when they happen, that God is in control, and that's real evidence.

God said that the only way to know his true message is predictive prophecy, and if that very element is missing then do NOT believe that prophet. These prophecies have to be very unique, not just a general guess as you see all false prophets do. For God to manifest His love and will for mankind, he must make Himself known personally in such a way that a finite man would realize beyond a shadow of doubt that the infinite God was revealing Himself. This irrefutable verification is reserved to only the Judeo-Christian Scriptures alone.

Not even the Hindu Vedas, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, the sayings of Buddha, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy, can match Biblical prophecy. By contrast, prophecy comprises about 25% of the Bible (8,352 verses). No other religious book can produce the same.

In another verse God challenges you from the Bible: "Present your case, says the Lord. Bring forth your strong reasons, says the King of Jacob. Let them bring forth and show us what will happen; Let them show us the former things, what they were, That we may consider them, And know the latter end of them; Or declare to us the things to come. Show the things that are to come hereafter, That we may know that you are gods; Yes, do good or do evil, That we may be dismayed and see it together. Indeed you are nothing, And your work is nothing; He who chooses you is an abomination." (Isaiah 41:21-24). 
So, the God of the Bible challenges you, will you accept the challenge? And he continues in chapter 42 verse 9: "Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them." God sees all of history; past present and future. He does not guess what the future holds, he knows!

No honest person can remain an unbeliever after even a brief study of prophecy, and prophecy is the missing element in ALL other sacred scriptures of the world's religions. Although they are claimed to be in the Quran, an honest research and comparison with the Bible will surely prove this point.

Blind faith does not require thinking, but real faith depends on evidence.

I believe that the bible contains an abundence of evidence for the existence of God and that the Bible is pure Gold based upon the vast amount of detailed prophecy that has come to pass and been fulfilled so precisely as it was predicted.

In Christianity faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE (conviction) of things not yet seen. It is by the EVIDENCE that God gave and by using your intellect, you should believe and trust God and have faith to be with God forever, which is the hope of eternal paradise. It is the faith in what God did for man, and not what man can do for God.

Islam and every religion in the world is teaching the opposite, that is; you need to do for God (prayer, alms, fast, hajj, jihad...) to gain merit and favour, while in Christianity it is a result from loving God and having an everlasting relationship with him which will be evident as we bare fruit (good deeds). It is that simple."

f you read the book titled Armageddon, Appointment With Destiny, by Grant Jeffrey is shows that some of the things explained in this book had many detailed prophecies about Jesus: his birth, life, death and resurrection; and the re-creation of the state of Israel. Many of these prophecies came to pass as God put down in the Bible! What is amazing though is to find out that the chances for a man to predict hundreds of historic events written hundreds and thousands of years before their occurrences are one in zillions... what is more fascinating is that the margin of error had to be zero, especially when the fulfillment of many of these prophecies are happening in our generation right now!!! This kind of evidence had to come from a divine origin and that origin has to be God Almighty.

No other book matched the bible in terms of the required evidence demanded by the Bible to be warranted as divine. No other book compares when it comes to Biblical evidence. Since God is 100% Truth, he sent the Bible with four different elements, that no other book in the world has. These elements are: Manuscript evidence, Archeological evidence, Prophetic evidence, and the evidence of science in the Bible.

As far as prophetic evidence is concerned the Bible is the only religious book in existence that dared to detail thousands of prophecies. These prophecies varied, some concerning the rise and fall of world empires. many prophecies of the Bible have already been fulfilled.

In no other religious literature will you find hundreds of detailed predictions that have been fulfilled so precisely as they were predicted. No human has ever presented such detailed predictions of future events. Many may point to the occasional lucky guess of Nostradamus, Jean Dickson, and other false prophets but they ignore the hundreds of totally incorrect predictions they also made.

Henry C. Roberts, the editor of The Complete Prophecies of Nostradamus, (Jericho NY: Nostradamus, Inc. 1976) and one of the strongest supporters of Nostradamus admitted in his introduction that these prophetic writings are "unintelligible and garbled to the uninitiated. The strange, broken, and often incoherent nature of the quatrains, both in French and English, is the hallmark of prophetic media." Edgar Cayce, the so-called American sleeping prophet, who made many false claims on locating oil wells or mineral deposits.

Even today forecasting the near future markets is an unpredictable gamble. All man made prophecy and attempt to predict future has been fruitless, the best man have made can be obtained at your local Chinese restaurant when you get a bill with Chinese fortune cookies.

The idea of Bible Prophecy is that God have drawn out his plan prior to it's execution (from the beginning), as to prove when they happen, that God is in control, and that's real evidence.

The Bible has been the most accurate Book in history, a claim which the best archaeologists, historians, and scientist can testify to.

Every single Biblical site was found. The Hittites for example, was denied as a fairy tale. Abraham in Genesis 49 mentions the Hittites. In 1960 in North East Turkey, the largest archaeological find in the century. 35,000 clay tablets were found, and all the books that accused the Bible with this fairy tale had to be cleared from the shelves of book stores and libraries. The Empire of the Hittites was one of the largest in history, yet man today did not know of it.

It would have saved allot of embarrassment if they simply trusted the Bible, and believed it. We didn't have to wait till 1960. We can write volumes and document thousands of recent archaeological discoveries concerning biblical accounts to find that the Bible was 100% accurate.

For hundreds of years, many stories and personalities written in the Bible were denied until fascinating archaeological finds confirmed the accuracy of the Bible.

Today biblical personalities that were denied for hundreds of years like Nebuchadnezzar, Belshazzar, Darius, and King David can be confirmed by the study of the science of archaeology as 100% true and accurate. King David for example was considered to be a myth by many universities. Yet in 1993, archeologists dug out a stone tablet at Tel Dan in Israel clearly referring to the "house of David" (Bait Daveed), identifying him as king of Israel.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Michael the restrainer....yep

Satan still in heaven... I would say he still has access to the throne but his residence is no longer there...We see in Job that Satan reports to God...In revelation he is thrown down/expelled/ never to allowed re-admittance

the Rapture will happen after the 6th seal... when you see the elder ask John WHO ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE....those are the ones that came out of THE GREAT TRIBULATION.... 

God's wrath will start to be poured out after that.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Michael the restrainer....yep
> 
> Satan still in heaven... I would say he still has access to the throne but his residence is no longer there...We see in Job that Satan reports to God...In revelation he is thrown down/expelled/ never to allowed re-admittance
> 
> ...


Can you point me to where the rapture is located at ?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Matthew 24
1 Thessalonians 4:17 

there are more


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Never saw "Rapture" anywhere. I'm familiar with the Mt Olivet prophecy also

The dead in Christ shall meet him first,then those who are alive will be caught up in the air with Christ. Then,here's the catch.You'll come back down to Earth and rule with Christ for 1000 years.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Matt 24:29 says immediately after the tribulation of those days,the skies will be darkened......
Matt 24:30 says then the Son of Man will appear
Matt 24:31 shows that true Christians ,including the dead in Christ will be gathered at Christs return

So how can you be raptured before the Tribulation ?


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If you believe in the Biblical "end times" then you should know that the temple has to be rebuilt on the temple mound which currently houses a mosque.

Don't worry about the end times until that happens.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

That'll be when the rapture folks are wondering why they're still here during the Tribulation.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> Never saw "Rapture" anywhere. I'm familiar with the Mt Olivet prophecy also
> 
> The dead in Christ shall meet him first,then those who are alive will be caught up in the air with Christ. Then,here's the catch.You'll come back down to Earth and rule with Christ for 1000 years.


Yup. The word, "rapture" is an English word for the taking away.
Seems grammatical hair-splitters love to obfuscate the facts.


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## Casie (Feb 26, 2014)

This is not really my thing. I don't go looking for signs. I just like to keep informed. I like numbers and facts, and things I can crunch the math on and see if it adds up. But this is ridiculous. How could anyone consider this a rational, sane, course of action?

Government Plan Would Transform Israel Into The World?s First Cashless Society | Zero Hedge

We Shouldn't Be Shocked By This New Proposal... But We Are | Zero Hedge


In September, it was announced that the Israeli government had formed a committee to "examine ways to eliminate cash from the Israeli economy"&#8230;

Just this week we learned that a three phase plan is being proposed&#8230;

There will be very strict limits on the use of cash for individuals and businesses, any violations will be considered criminal offenses, and all Israeli banks will be required to issue debit cards to all account holders&#8230;

And here in the States an article published yesterday afternoon on the Financial Times website (based on a recently published academic paper), Rogoff did propose a new idea that is radical: ban cash. All of it.

*Revelation 3:17 ......... And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.*

What the hell is this crap? This is the NSA's bitcoin experiment about to be crammed down your throat. And if they catch you buying more bacon than they think you need, see how fast your electronic funds are flipped off.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I fear no such mark to buy or sell.Now a mark on the forehead is different,think what's behind the forehead. Rev states let the wise man add up the number, be wise.
A mark on the hand is the work you do. IE work on the Sabbath,which brings into question when the last day of the week is. I look at my calendar. BTW


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> Never saw "Rapture" anywhere. I'm familiar with the Mt Olivet prophecy also
> 
> The dead in Christ shall meet him first,then those who are alive will be caught up in the air with Christ. Then,here's the catch.You'll come back down to Earth and rule with Christ for 1000 years.


Rapture comes from the latin of catching away... we use rapture to make it clear what we are talking about... but for you we can change and say caught up, taken up, removed, or whatever makes you feel that we are not being heathens


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> I fear no such mark to buy or sell.Now a mark on the forehead is different,think what's behind the forehead. Rev states let the wise man add up the number, be wise.
> A mark on the hand is the work you do. IE work on the Sabbath,which brings into question when the last day of the week is. I look at my calendar. BTW


A mark on the hand OR forehead... OR...it will be one of the other...not both... there is no way that sunday worship can be the mark.... how will sunday service stop people from selling...

This will be a literal Mark....a mark that will ID you as a good citizen or a bad citizen...


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

He was here, he died and was risen from the dead , he ascended into heaven. And he is coming back .
The only hope I have is grace.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> He was here, he died and was risen from the dead , he ascended into heaven. And he is coming back .
> The only hope I have is grace.


Amen.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> He was here, he died and was risen from the dead , he ascended into heaven. And he is coming back .
> The only hope I have is grace.


That is the only hope any of us has.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> A mark on the hand OR forehead... OR...it will be one of the other...not both... there is no way that sunday worship can be the mark.... how will sunday service stop people from selling...
> 
> This will be a literal Mark....a mark that will ID you as a good citizen or a bad citizen...


OK,I guess we will just have to wait and see, remember most people worship the false prophet and will be shocked in that day.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> OK,I guess we will just have to wait and see, remember most people worship the false prophet and will be shocked in that day.


Actually we do not have to wait and see we already KNOW... the New Testament lays it out clearly... Jesus made it clear, Paul made it clear...

instead of rehashing an old argument...this is a great argument here Is the Sabbath Required for Christians Today? | Grace Communion International


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Actually we do not have to wait and see we already KNOW... the New Testament lays it out clearly... Jesus made it clear, Paul made it clear...
> 
> instead of rehashing an old argument...this is a great argument here Is the Sabbath Required for Christians Today? | Grace Communion International


OK,then read Exodus 20:8-11, then remember keeping the Sabbath Holy is the Fourth Commandment, and Jesus kept the Sabbath, Luke 4:16.

Are you actually suggesting that we can pick and choose which of The Ten Commandments we can keep? Christians are supposed to live by every Word of Jesus,and Jesus kept the Sabbath. he was killed for it. He also said if people persecuted him for his deeds,they would surely do the same to anyone else who spoke in his name. Like you're doing.

Your argument given by Grace Communion International actually gives fuel to mine.
If you keep the Saturday Sabbath,you probably won't have a job,therefore buying or selling will be difficult if not impossible.
Doing good on the Sabbath is OK,but personal gain on the Sabbath is not.

That's why is nearly impossible for mans to abide by the Ten Commandments making Jesus first coming so important.

Do as you wish. I'm done here.Hope you figure it out.


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## Mike45 (Dec 29, 2013)

If they are coming true, then no amount of prepping in the world will save you from a wrathful God!


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Mike45 said:


> If they are coming true, then no amount of prepping in the world will save you from a wrathful God!


This is the nutshell version:

1st, if you are right with God, you need not worry about his wrath.

2nd, until you hear about the 7 year peace treaty and the rebuilding of the temple, I wouldn't worry about it.

3rd, if and when it happens, you still have to survive. You have to make it through the 7 years. Prepping is still a good plan.


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## Mike45 (Dec 29, 2013)

inceptor said:


> This is the nutshell version:
> 
> 1st, if you are right with God, you need not worry about his wrath.
> 3rd, if and when it happens, you still have to survive. You have to make it through the 7 years. Prepping is still a good plan.


I stand corrected Sir, both very valid points.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

I doubt any of us have it exactly correct but I am impressed by the depth of Bible knowledge. I have learned a lot. Good job and thanks.


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## Mike45 (Dec 29, 2013)

PalmettoTree said:


> I doubt any of us have it exactly correct but I am impressed by the depth of Bible knowledge. I have learned a lot. Good job and thanks.


No I am sure we don't have it anywhere close to correct. I am sure when Jesus returns he will probably think WTF (not really, but it might be close), but the end might be something more cataclysmic like the end of the dinosaurs-I do not think any of us will actually see angels and the like laying waste to the planet.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Bible is 100% accurate so far in all prophecies. I don't see that changing.

Jesus made is return quite clear.

*Matthew 24*:23 At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

*Revelation 1*:7 "Look, he is coming with the clouds,"and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him";and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.

Speaking of the great falling away:

Matthew 24:10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

2 Peter 2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Fortunately the Bible made it easy to understand.


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

inceptor said:


> This is the nutshell version:
> 
> 1st, if you are right with God, you need not worry about his wrath.
> 
> ...


Isn't there already talk of a seven year peace treaty and the rebuilding of the temple?


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

The three most important things to understand about the coming of Jesus Christ for His people are found first in 1st Thessalonians, Chapter 4, 1st Corinthians, chapter 15, and the 11th chapter of Revelation.

Start with 1st Thessalonians:

"14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16*For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:* 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air........."

This is the "How it will be accomplished" statement.

Next is 1st Corinthians, chapter 15:

51Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, *at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed*.

This is the "When it will be accomplished" statement.

The third statement is the last few words of Revelation, chapter 11: reading it, you will see that the first 11 chapters were simply a chronological order of events, one that says what happens, . . . and when, . . . and as chapter 11 ends, . . . so does this world as we know it.

Yes, . . . there are many who believe in a pre-trib rapture, . . . but there is not *one word, verse, chapter, or iota of scripture* that paints the picture as plain and clear as do these three pieces.

They also "just happen" to mesh ideally with Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, . . . where again there is *no mention of anything considered a pre-"end of the world"* rapture of the church.

Naysayers, . . . non-believers need to get their spiritual houses in order, . . . it is not here yet, . . . but the one major piece that was a stumbling block to the end of time, . . . Israel becoming a nation again, . . . has occurred.

There is one event yet to be done without which scripture cannot be fulfilled today, . . . 06/02/2014, . . . that is the "Temple of God" mentioned in Revelation 11, has not been rebuilt. When it is done, . . . nothing remains to be done.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

firefighter72 said:


> Isn't there already talk of a seven year peace treaty and the rebuilding of the temple?


There has been talk of that for years. The temple won't be built until the 7 year peace agreement. That won't happen until the appointed time. Even Jesus stated no one knows the time except the Father, not even Jesus.

So, as I stated earlier, I'm not gonna worry about it until the peace agreement is announced. Then all bets are off.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Help me out here guys...

I have read Daniel a couple times and thought I understood some of it. I have read Revelation twice and thought I understood about half of it. But, what I understand about Revelation is that it is a story of hope and rejuvenation. I mean, at the end of the book, the good guys win. Sure, it sucks in the meantime. But we KNOW, in the end WE win. To me, when I think of the Tribulation period, I really HOPE I am alive to go through at least part of it. How cool would that be to literally be standing side by side with guys like ya'll fighting with and for Christ, knowing that even if we are whacked out, in less than seven years, we're going to be back living life and farting through silk for a millennium? That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

From reading this thread now a total of three times, I am totally convinced that I will never understand the Tribulation story like most of you all do. So, please help me understand where I am wrong, because this is something that I do not fear, but actually welcome.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Inor said:


> Help me out here guys...
> 
> I have read Daniel a couple times and thought I understood some of it. I have read Revelation twice and thought I understood about half of it. But, what I understand about Revelation is that it is a story of hope and rejuvenation. I mean, at the end of the book, the good guys win. Sure, it sucks in the meantime. But we KNOW, in the end WE win. To me, when I think of the Tribulation period, I really HOPE I am alive to go through at least part of it. How cool would that be to literally be standing side by side with guys like ya'll fighting with and for Christ, knowing that even if we are whacked out, in less than seven years, we're going to be back living life and farting through silk for a millennium? That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
> 
> From reading this thread now a total of three times, I am totally convinced that I will never understand the Tribulation story like most of you all do. So, please help me understand where I am wrong, because this is something that I do not fear, but actually welcome.


Here is something I found a long time ago. I know the author won't mind if I share it. I keep the whole article on my desktop so I can access it when I need to.









Click on it and it's easy to read. Two people have helped me have a better understanding, Roy A. Reinhold and Dr Bill Creasey. Dr. Creasey is who I am studying now and no one has ever made it easier to understand. Dr. Creasey teaches that the book of Revelation is the easiest book to read IF you have read all the other books of the Bible. He states everything talked about in Revelation has been brought up before in the other books.

That being said, I started with him teaching Revelation. I found it on Audible.com by accident, bought it and listened and have been a student of his since. Even an old ******* like me can comprehend his teaching.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I cannot understand why we continue to argue our belief with obvious unbelievers. They read and interpret their way and they are well armed but they approach it from a legalistic view point.In my world God expects many to not believe and some to believe. SOme to abide by the law of moses and some to believe in Jesus. Some to follow the rules of the religion they have been taught who have never been brought to christ. and in the end...I could care less if someone can catch me in some area where I may be unenlightened. It doesn't make the end result less devastating. If I am right, I live in heaven...if I am wrong, I die and then nothing, If you are right you die and then nothing...if you are wrong then you burn in hell. Seems like my worst case is better than yours so suck on that one wild man.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Old SF Guy said:


> I cannot understand why we continue to argue our belief with obvious unbelievers. They read and interpret their way and they are well armed but they approach it from a legalistic view point.In my world God expects many to not believe and some to believe. SOme to abide by the law of moses and some to believe in Jesus. Some to follow the rules of the religion they have been taught who have never been brought to christ. and in the end...I could care less if someone can catch me in some area where I may be unenlightened. It doesn't make the end result less devastating. If I am right, I live in heaven...if I am wrong, I die and then nothing, If you are right you die and then nothing...if you are wrong then you burn in hell. Seems like my worst case is better than yours so suck on that one wild man.


I had to go back to see who you were talking to :lol:

I'm with you in that I really don't care what others think. Me, I don't mind a good debate but when someone starts spewing BS then I'm done. I am who I am and what I am because of where He led me. Am I right? Only time will tell that one. Like you, I would rather believe what I do. First and foremost, He brings me peace. I enjoy my relationship with both the Father and the Son. They have always been there for me, in good times and bad.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Amen... I speak to the fool who says that the joy of now is worth the everlasting consequences. Even just betting the odds you have to bet Christian.... it pays off better. The best they offer is nothingness.....and that is our worst case if you believe.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

inceptor said:


> Here is something I found a long time ago. I know the author won't mind if I share it. I keep the whole article on my desktop so I can access it when I need to.
> 
> View attachment 5541
> 
> ...


Inceptor -

The audible.com link just takes me to a generic signup for Amazon. Do you have a link to the treaties you are actually listening to? I would be happy to pay for it just to get some clarification.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Audible is an Amazon company. You probably have to sign up to find it.

However, I found Dr. Creasey has his own website. Right now I am doing the one year Bible study. He does have individual lessons there too.

Logos Bible Study - Home


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

There may be talk of rebuilding the Temple, but you won't hear any of it from the Moslems, who already have a Mosque on the area, which is supposed to be something like the 4th Holiest site in Islam. You can say "screw the Moslems" as much as you want, but the cold hard fact is that the Mosque would have to be destroyed first, and should anyone do that you would have every Muslim in the World declaring a holy war against Israel. The only way I could see it being destroyed without a immediate war is if the Muslims themselves did something that ended up destroying their own Mosque, and even then they would go nuts if someone tried to build a Jewish Temple on top of what they consider a Holy site.


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