# Little Game We Should All Play !



## nadja (May 1, 2012)

OK, lets see how informed and ready you really are. 

Monday mornig (tomorrow) you wake up without your alarm clock/radio whatever. You notice it is already light, but that nothing is on. You walk to the kitchen and flip the switch and nothing happens. Now, you go to the bathroom to do the thing, but again no lights. You assume that some drunk has again just hit a pole. 

After a few minutes , you walk outside to get the morning paper and notice how dark the neighborhood is. Hmmm 

A little while later , you go to your car, and guess what? It won't start ! Now what do you assume has happened ? You now try your trusty little I pod or your pod or whatever, and violla, no phone either. Now , this is you shtf moment. What do you think happened and what are you going to do ?

Now, after a little while, you or someone else decides to walk the 6-7 blocks to the nearest fast food or circle k and find them also closed. You are also begining to notice a lot more people standing around with there pockets. Are you begining to wonder yet. ? Keep in mind there are no comunications of any kind. Now, you see a stranger in a really old car/truck moving around. Have you connected the dots yet ? No, well how about maybe some guy a couple of blocks over has some solar back up and a ham radio and starts telling everyone that the entire grid from coast to coast seems to be down. 

Now, the question of the day, what are you and yours going to do ? This should be considered a major event , possibly with no recovery in sight for at least two years if ever.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

nadja said:


> ..Now, the question of the day, what are you and yours going to do ? This should be considered a major event , possibly with no recovery in sight for at least two years if ever.


I'd make for the nearest food/drink shops and hope i find one that's open so's i can stock up, then i'd hole up at home and hope that government/military loudspeaker vans or helicopters will arrive in the city to inform everybody what's going on and what we should do.
I'd also keep trying the TV and radio to see if i could pick up government messages (presumably they'd have their own generators to power their transmitters).
Possibly government food convoys and security troops would arrive sooner or later, so i'd hope that I had enough food and drink to last until then..


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

LuckyJim. You will not be so lucky if you believe that stuff. IF the gobert has their own gennies ? So what.? Your tv and all elec stuff is down. Your car unless really old will also be down. It is called an emp event. Nothing elec that uses modern tech will be working. You need to quit the gaming stuff and start learning a little or better, a lot more. You are not living in the real world.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

nadja said:


> LuckyJim. You will not be so lucky if you believe that stuff. IF the gobert has their own gennies ? So what.? Your tv and all elec stuff is down. Your car unless really old will also be down. It is called an emp event. Nothing elec that uses modern tech will be working. You need to quit the gaming stuff and start learning a little or better, a lot more. You are not living in the real world.


Ah, so now you're springing on us the fact that it was an EMP event, you never said that before! Anything else we should know?
We wargamers never begin a game until we're in full possession of all the facts, then we can formulate a plan to win..
PS, as regards luck, I make my own luck, right Kid?

*"Right!"*









"Luck has a peculiar habit of favoring those who don't depend on it" - Anon
"Luck is not something you can mention in the presence of self-made men"- E.B.White
"Luck? I don't know anything about luck. I've never banked on it.... Luck to me is something else.....realizing what is opportunity and what isn't" - Lucille Ball
"Luck is believing you're lucky" - Tennessee Williams
"A person does not seek luck, luck seeks the person" - Turkish proverb
"I deserved my good luck" - Margaret Thatcher
"Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference"- Winston Churchill


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Ah, so now you're springing on us the fact that it was an EMP event, you never said that before! Anything else we should know?
> We wargamers never begin a game until we're in full possession of all the facts, then we can formulate a plan to win..
> PS, as regards luck, I make my own-
> 
> ...


Did I spring it on you ? After all I gave you enough clues as to what was most likely going on. NO Elec. No modern working cars, cell towers down all comunications down. You will have to learn to think without benifit of your computer if you want to live


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh right, I'd already half-guessed it was an EMP event, but what threw me was that guy driving around in an old car, and a guy who had a working ham radio, so why hadn't the EMP pulse affected them?
But even knowing it was an EMP event wouldn't make me change my survival strategy, namely to hole up at home with food stocks for as long as possible, as i'm sure the govt has a contingency plan to send in food supplies and stuff.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

The guy driving around in the old car was because as I said earlier , it was before modern electronics or computers in car. The ham radio guy is most likely someone like me with a power back up. In my case, I live entirely off the grid on solar, wind with 3 back up gennies just in case. Redundance is the key


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

One Second After


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## Watercanlady (Jul 23, 2012)

I would go back in the house and continue on....


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Maybe you out there need to think a little bit more. Or a lot. IF the grid were to go down, from an emp type sceneario, here is what life would be like

No, gas, money from banks, jobs all gone again no pay, food would not be coming to your local grocer, no communications othere then home powered cbs and ham radio's, hospitals, once there back up gennies ran out of fuel, would not be able to assist. Dr's and nurses couldn't get to work, no gas, and even if they could , most would not as no paychecks. 
Farms also require fuel and in large numbers to operate their equipment, and why should they grow when there would be no hope of getting paid ? Not to mention, that they couldn't buy seed. City people never seem to give this any thought, but farmers have to buy new seed every year, and in very large quanities. 
Water and sewage in the cities would stop. All transportation after even a few weeks would stop. Theft and rioting would become common every day things. Especially those in the big cities. 

I joined this forum a couple of weeks ago, thinking that I might be able to contribute to everyones safe and long lasting well being. Instead, I find very few people more interested in cracking jokes then taking this seriously. Well, most of you will not survive any type of long term effect. Trying to open your eyes and thinking capicity to help, not make it like another computer game. Most of you from what I have read, would be far better off playing with your games. Thats ok, there is a Fema Camp with your name on it waiting just for you.


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## ibewbull (Sep 1, 2012)

nadja said:


> Maybe you out there need to think a little bit more. Or a lot. IF the grid were to go down, from an emp type sceneario, here is what life would be like
> 
> No, gas, money from banks, jobs all gone again no pay, food would not be coming to your local grocer, no communications othere then home powered cbs and ham radio's, hospitals, once there back up gennies ran out of fuel, would not be able to assist. Dr's and nurses couldn't get to work, no gas, and even if they could , most would not as no paychecks.
> Farms also require fuel and in large numbers to operate their equipment, and why should they grow when there would be no hope of getting paid ? Not to mention, that they couldn't buy seed. City people never seem to give this any thought, but farmers have to buy new seed every year, and in very large quanities.
> ...


Stressing on jokes is not very prodctive, is it? 
Everyone handles stress and emergencies in a different way.
Humor is one of my ways of life. I was in the ER and asked if I wanted to be resusitated 2 years ago as my arteries collapsed and they atempted to put IVs in both arms.
My reply was " Well yes. I don't think I am done here yet."
I must go now the voices are telling me to move it now.


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## Buckinbronco66 (Apr 5, 2012)

I will play your game...

An EMP event for me now I would act completly differently than I would have a year ago. I now live on a Navy Base so I would still have to go to work (We would all have to show up anyway; there are plans for that) I would let my wife know that she needs to get the cold smoker ready and leave the fridge closed and get out all the camping gear while I was gone. Also we would drain the water heater for extra water and see if there is any presure left in the pipes to fill any and all containers we have; any little bit of water is more than what we had before. If at all possible we would both go to the commisarry and grab more rice and beans, peas, powdered milk, most of the dried goods and what ever canned goods as possible. Luckely we live in WA where the average rain fall is around 4-5 feet a year. I would band together our court and try to help others that wern't prepared (not giving our stuff away but help them understand how to use what they have) Get the people around and let them know that with no heat and burning wood or any other fuel inside will kill them without proper ventilation; an easy fix for that is to band people together in a single home each room has an entire family to keep heat. foil up windows and close as many drafts as possible. see if they would all band with me and "pool" their food and have one person in control of all the food ie keeping stock and rationing (only need 1200 kcal to survive unless prego; kids get a little more because they are growing and they will be our future) start turning the park areas around the house into gardens and keeping a watch on said gardens 24/7; 6hr watch rotations (something we are used to on depoyment) even though we are on base doesnt mean that people havent prepared and aren't wiling to steal what we have started. end result we are on a base slightly protected and have to ban the neghiborhood by nehigborhood to our cause and teach them so we can be more self suficient. the biggest thing would have to be water and food teaching people to collect rain and store it properly and the gardens would be key. I am sure weapons would be issued but I still have my own... just in case...

a little scatter brained but its the best I could do where we are now


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

What do ya' know. A man with a real plan ! This is not so much as a game but a real possible life threatening scenario, and should be looked at as just that. It is designed to make you think beyond just buying extra food and guns. Survival depends more on your thinking process then all the food and guns in the world. And BuckinBronco66, you are in the thinking capacity, and will most likely be one of the people that will come out of this alive and well. 
Najda, U.S.N. 65'-69


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Nadja mate, don't let the jokey manner of me and some others give you the wrong impression..
Instead, regard our good-humoured mindset as a sign of our inner toughness and our total confidence in our survival ability!

For example check out this thread where Leon got busted up in a car smash but still kept his sense of humour like he said-
_.."I had a pretty good grip on my mental state and that's the key to biofeedback- the mind is a very gullible thing and can fool itself. I went with humor, which was a big hit in the trauma ward. They say laughter is the best medicine, they weren't shitting.."_
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/friends-need-donation-links/365-leon-had-accident-2.html#post6886

I'm able to see the funny side of my own situations too, for example 10 years ago I was just out of jail (3 months vigilante rap), homeless, jobless, girlfriendless, near-penniless and living in a tent in a remote wood, shivering and near-hypothermic with thyroid problems, but not for an instant did i get depressed or lose my sense of humour. "Great" i thought,"I've ended up as Bigfoot!"..

But I soon got out and up, no problem, maybe my christian mindset had something to do with it, these words were written by an ex-bounty hunter after he became a christian-
_"I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want" (Philippians 4:12)_

So in a SHTF scenario I'm sure we'd all much prefer to be in a jolly group rather than a sombre moping bunch!
EMP pulse? Bring it on..






PS- and check out my superhumanly confident arrogant swagger and body language in this vid of me under my wargaming name of 'Poor Old Spike' which sends out the clear message to zombs that they sure as hell better not mess with me, I bin around..


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

But back to topic, we've established that an EM pulse knocked out the power grid and burnt out the sensitive electronics in just about everything, plunging us back into the Stone Age.
My reading is that the military has shielded much of their own electronics and stuff from EM pulse, and they'll also have their own generators, so wouldn't it be best to just sit tight at home until they get food convoys organised and begin feeding everybody?
Incidentally EM pulse can occurs in only two ways-
1- A mega solar flare zaps the earth
2- An enemy detonates one or more EMP bombs high in the atmosphere.

I can't really see an enemy wanting to do that, because blowing out our toasters, TV's and car wiring etc would serve no useful purpose in the long run, because a lot of military stuff would be shielded anyway, or am I missing something?

Interesting snippets from the net- 
_• On March 9, 1989, the sun spat a million-mile-wide blast of high-temperature charged solar gas straight at the Earth. The "coronal mass ejection" struck the planet three days later, triggering a geomagnetic storm that made the northern lights visible in Texas. The storm also induced currents in Quebec's power grid that knocked out power for 6 million people in Canada and the USA for at least nine hours.

• On July 9, 1962, the USA detonated the Starfish Prime, a 1.4-megaton H-bomb test at an altitude of 250 miles, some 900 miles southwest of Hawaii. The pulse shorted out streetlights in Oahu._

And there's a good EMP article here but it's a bit longwinded-
http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html

This excerpt from it backs up what i said about staying put for a while- 
_By buying an extra can of soup or other reasonably nutritious canned food every week or two, you can build up a food reserve -- before you realize it -- that will last you for at least a week or two. A week or two of "breathing room" after a disaster can give you great peace of mind and allow you to stop and think and plan for a future course of action (while the unprepared are all in a great panic). It is even possible that additional help will arrive after a week or two. The most important thing is to store at least a two-week supply of drinking water. _

And this bit says wrapping an important item like a radio in plastic plus aluminium foil *before* an EMP happens will shield it, so maybe we should all wrap up a spare radio *now* so we can pick up any government broadcasts after the EMP event-
_For small portable electronics, completely covering the electronic equipment in aluminum foil makes an adequate faraday cage around the equipment. The foil covering needs to be complete, without any significant gaps. Wrap the device in plastic or put it in an insulated box before wrapping the covered device in foil. (Otherwise, the foil may simply conduct the EMP energy into the device more effectively.) 
A single layer of foil may not be adequate. In order to enclose the equipment in a nested faraday cage, place the foil-covered device in a plastic bag, such as a freezer bag, and wrap that bag completely in aluminum foil. If you really want to protect the equipment against a large EMP, add another layer of plastic and foil. The layer of plastic need to be the thickest plastic bags that you can easily find. (They don't need to be terribly thick, but do try to find some heavy-duty bags.)_

Watch out, Snake Plissken triggers an EM pulse in 'Escape from L.A.'..
_"He shut down the earth!"_


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Well, that's me set up for EMP-day, I just EMP-proofed a radio according to the instructions in the net article above..
Left to right- 
1-first you must insert the radio into a plastic bag to insulate it from the foil, 
2- wrap the bag snugly around it, 
3- then wrap it in kitchen foil, secured with a few rubber bands.
In fact later on today i'll wrap it in a second and third foil layer for extra insurance, with two more plastic bags keeping the foils apart like it says in the article.
Then on EMP-day when everybody is running round with burnt-out radios shouting "What's going on? What's the word on the street?", I'll be able to tune in to emergency government transmissions to find out..


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

LuckyJim. You guys over the pond have weird electricity ! LOL I hope you took the batteries out of the radio before going through all that. I have heard things about emp that tend to go both ways. For instance, some scientiest believe that if a device is turne off, it will not be affected, while others think they will no matter what. That does kind of make a nice little emp proof bag. But the real question is, will it work. 

But for real life information, Nasa does agree that beginning in or around Dec , 2012 there will be a very large cycle of the sun that will result in many X class solar flares lasting several months into 2013. Nobody really knows what really will happen.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

nadja said:


> Maybe you out there need to think a little bit more. Or a lot. IF the grid were to go down, from an emp type sceneario, here is what life would be like
> 
> No, gas, money from banks, jobs all gone again no pay, food would not be coming to your local grocer, no communications othere then home powered cbs and ham radio's, hospitals, once there back up gennies ran out of fuel, would not be able to assist. Dr's and nurses couldn't get to work, no gas, and even if they could , most would not as no paychecks.
> Farms also require fuel and in large numbers to operate their equipment, and why should they grow when there would be no hope of getting paid ? Not to mention, that they couldn't buy seed. City people never seem to give this any thought, but farmers have to buy new seed every year, and in very large quanities.
> ...


I live in the woods already.


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## SSGT (Jul 29, 2012)

nadja said:


> But for real life information, Nasa does agree that beginning in or around Dec , 2012 there will be a very large cycle of the sun that will result in many X class solar flares lasting several months into 2013. Nobody really knows what really will happen.


I've read a lot of Nasa's stuff latley and havent heard any this...got an article? Website besides Nasa? I was active in watching the last 3 solar cycles before this one and they were MAJOR compared to our current "WUSS" of a cycle. From what I can see the only thing NASA can agree on is they dont have a clue of whats going to happen tomorrow much less a week or more from now.


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## SSGT (Jul 29, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Well, that's me set up for EMP-day, I just EMP-proofed a radio according to the instructions in the net article above..
> Left to right-
> 1-first you must insert the radio into a plastic bag to insulate it from the foil,
> 2- wrap the bag snugly around it,
> ...


Gotta GROUND on that thing? If you want to test it from an EMP....Throw it in the microwave a minute!

The idea is to route all current / static around the protected object to a GROUND....The charge will take the shortest route to ground leaving your equipment alone!


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

SSGT said:


> Gotta GROUND on that thing? If you want to test it from an EMP....Throw it in the microwave a minute!
> The idea is to route all current / static around the protected object to a GROUND....The charge will take the shortest route to ground leaving your equipment alone!


I'll pass on the microwave test for fear of turning my home into Bikini atoll, but as regards grounding I suppose I could tape the bare end of a wire to the foil and wrap the other bare end round a water pipe..
PS- I'm also looking into buying a mini-TV like the one in this vid, what could be more relaxing in a SHTF world than to sit watching Disney cartoons..


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## LAWNKILLER (Sep 17, 2012)

As long as it is *NOT* stored on a metal shelf on a concrete floor then it should be fine. I have found conflicting ideas on this. I have all my items stored in the basement, in a wooden cabinent with a rubber matte underneath it. This goes with another theory that cars are them selves a faraday cage, assuming it is not completly made of fiberglass body. I don't hold much faith in that but the idea that they are grounded goes back to the lighting proof. You are safe in a car in a lightning strike because the rubber tires. Planes are struck by lightning all the time but are uneffect because they are a in a sense a faraday cage and are not grounded to the ground but suspened in the air. This idea comes up repeatly and is the one I suscribe too.



SSGT said:


> Gotta GROUND on that thing? If you want to test it from an EMP....Throw it in the microwave a minute!
> 
> The idea is to route all current / static around the protected object to a GROUND....The charge will take the shortest route to ground leaving your equipment alone!


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## LAWNKILLER (Sep 17, 2012)

In this scenerio; in the first few hrs:

Step one, clean the tubs and fill, as well as all the empty containers that have not already been set aside and prepped ie.bottles/buckets/bowls etc.. (if pressure is still good, should be for the first 12-24hrs)

Step two, Load the guns and secure the house. Board up all ground floor windows (looters).

Steps 1 and 2 are being done Simultaneously by my 3 member family.

Step three, after my house and family are secure, get with the neighbors (check on the older ones) and make sure they are doing the same and or help them with their prepping.

Step four, venture out with a couple strong/fit guys from the neighborhood to try and secure more supplies.

After a couple of weeks, and if it appears to a long term scenerio,,, Load up and head to my family farm.

Regardless of grounding your cars/trucks or whatever, older/newer, running or not the ignition system will be toast. So if you don't have spares before hand good luck. I have two retired individuals in my Neighborhood, both restore 1950s/1970s era cars and will come in handy helping me get any of my vehicles up and running for a 400mile jorney. Thats not how far my farm is, that is just how far I may have to drive due to detours. Gangs may be in control of the bridges and have choke points setup in the city, which I'll have to travel through to get there. So My plan is to drive around the city staying to the smaller roads which will take longer. I have enough fuel on had always. I rotate through it all summer long for mowing and ATV riding so it stays fresh. I am in the city, but on the outside edge and in this city,, no matter where you are in it, you are no more then 10mins from the rural. and I live in Cul-de-sac that backs up to farm land with a river a mile away. So I am on the very edge.



nadja said:


> OK, lets see how informed and ready you really are.
> 
> Monday mornig (tomorrow) you wake up without your alarm clock/radio whatever. You notice it is already light, but that nothing is on. You walk to the kitchen and flip the switch and nothing happens. Now, you go to the bathroom to do the thing, but again no lights. You assume that some drunk has again just hit a pole.
> 
> ...


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## LAWNKILLER (Sep 17, 2012)

But this Scenario I am not afraid of as much as another one, however I like what it is your trying to Accomplish.

What does Freightin me is this Scenario happening in the middle of the day, in the middle of the work week in the middle of winter. Think about it? Example, my situation; You at work, your spouse is at work your child/children are at school or worst yet, maybe they are on a field trip... What do you do??? do you have a plan for that? What is your plan for getting everyone back home with no commincations or transport. Have you and your spouse talked about this? With your children? have you looked at the the plans the schools have in place? Do you know what they are? does your childrens teachers.


WE have. I have in each vehicle and one in my sons back pack, a 35mile two way radio in a freezer ziplock bag with two sets of batteries individually in ziplock bages and wrapped in aluminum foil Vacum sealed. At our work locations, As the crow flys, my wife and are 30 miles apart so we may be able to communicate providing my planning worked and the radios and batts survived.

Step one, grab the Winter BOB (hopefully has been changed out from the summer BOB, basically the same but adding heavier gloves/coat/stocking caps/socks/boots. It helps to dump and repack the BOBs with two extreme seasons as to refamiliarize with them) in the vehicle if they won't start and head to the school where our child is. My wife will group up with ppl that live near our home/school (and she knows them well) and for the first rally point. I will do the same, however I work at place with equipment and mechanics that could get my car/truck or something running around here to get me home. but I am preppared to start walking home, however at a fast walk (3.5mph) it will take my wife and I 6.5hrs to walk to the school which is another 1hr walk home. My wife has to walk past our house to get to the school so she will stop there and see if any of the ATVs will run and if one of our neighbors picked up our son from school as many have kid/grandkids in the same school. But we can't rely on them to do this as the school will not let just anyone take other kids with them unless they are on the list and guess where that list is,,,, on a computer that just went off in the emp blast. we have a plan in place for that as well.

Then start with stage two which is outlined in my previous post.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Lawnkiller. So far , you have a real plan. Glad to hear it. Planning is everything when there is an emergancy at hand. I would like to see more people try and get to that point. 

Here is my plan. My wife and I are already very old. We live 26 miles from the nearest town which has a pop of around 7,000 or so, and mostly Morman's. 6 of those miles, the last 6 are mostly an old dirt cow trail. I have older vehicles and spare electrical parts for both. I live totally on solar and wind, so my power will likely still work. Even so, I have spare elect componants for my system that will keep us up- and running. Supplies stocked up, freezer about half full for now, more next month. CB radio, for talking to my closest neighbors and yes they are all preparred as well. If it happened while one or both of us were in town, then the bob's would allow for us to go about 3 days which even at our age should be far more then needed to get our sorry old butts home.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

LAWNKILLER said:


> ..But this Scenario I am not afraid of as much as another one..


What other one?
I can think of some nasties, let me know if I've missed any out-

1- Chernobyl-type *nuclear plant accident*, but on a much bigger scale, poisoning an area as big as the USA or the whole of Europe.
2- Massive *meteor strike *wiping out millions with blast and tsunami, and kicking up enough dust to black out the sun for years like what wiped out the dinosaurs.
3- World War 3 *exchange of nuclear weapons *poisoning virtually the entire planet.
4- A *plague* wiping out most humans on earth after accidental release from a bio research lab, or a deliberate release by terrorists to wipe out the population of a specific country.
5- *EC Event *(Economic Collapse) triggering total breakdown of law and order resulting in looting gangs etc. 
6- *EM pulse *, it'll be bad but hopefully the govt will have contingency plans to get relief food and medicine convoys up and running.


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## LAWNKILLER (Sep 17, 2012)

Jim please read my entire post.



Lucky Jim said:


> What other one?
> I can think of some nasties, let me know if I've missed any out-
> 
> 1- Chernobyl-type *nuclear plant accident*, but on a much bigger scale, poisoning an area as big as the USA or the whole of Europe.
> ...


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

nadja said:


> OK, lets see how informed and ready you really are.
> 
> Monday mornig (tomorrow) you wake up without your alarm clock/radio whatever. You notice it is already light, but that nothing is on. You walk to the kitchen and flip the switch and nothing happens. Now, you go to the bathroom to do the thing, but again no lights. You assume that some drunk has again just hit a pole.
> 
> ...


You watched Revolution didn't you


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

LAWNKILLER said:


> Jim please read my entire post.


I have mate but I must have misunderstood when you said _"this Scenario I am not afraid of as much as another one"_, as I assumed you'd moved on from EMP's to some other disaster..


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## LAWNKILLER (Sep 17, 2012)

No, still on EMP just a different time of day.



Lucky Jim said:


> I have mate but I must have misunderstood when you said _"this Scenario I am not afraid of as much as another one"_, as I assumed you'd moved on from EMP's to some other disaster..


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Crap.... reading all of this makes me feel NOT PREPARED for an EMP!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

nadja said:


> The guy driving around in the old car was because as I said earlier , it was before modern electronics or computers in car. The ham radio guy is most likely someone like me with a power back up. In my case, I live entirely off the grid on solar, wind with 3 back up gennies just in case. Redundance is the key


Everything depends on how big the device and how close you are to it.
Long before electronic ignitions and DVD players, the military already knew nuclear detonations emitted one powerful blast of energy. That energy entered circuitry through inductance and would burn up the points and coils of vehicles such as jeeps and 2 1/2 ton trucks. It's hard to get any simpler than those two vehicles! :grin:

To protect from electronic magnetic interference, shielded wiring is used to prevent the pulse from inducting energy into the circuits of today's electrical components in military aircraft. The shielding is jumped to the airframe, where the energy is bled away. Components are well grounded to the frame, as well, so that no static builds up on the boxes.

If you want to protect TEOTWAWKI equipment, just remember two things, shield and ground. That way, you'll be the coolest kid on your block the minute after the lights go out in Georgia.


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## Buckinbronco66 (Apr 5, 2012)

I think the biggest issue with the EMP discussion we are having is... the 1st world countries are still trying to figure out how to produce a wide spread and effective EM pulse with out a nuclear detonation. This being said you MUST account for the worst case senerio. think of who would detonate such a device and where it would be most effective. for an EMP ONLY it would have to be an atmospheric detonation; covers a large area with only the residual fall out to deal with ( minus the heat and shock wave of the city below) so as of right now unless the militarys of the world have far surpassed my knowledge and expecations of how and what can cause EMP's I want my plan to cover both. This brings another ball game to the table, its like inception... first you have the nuke and inside you have the emp. You have to deal with one first, nuke your imediate threat due to fall out and the obvious detonation of heat, shockwave and initial damage to surounding areas. the EMP is a much latter issue that needs to be delt with. I am sure that I can assume that most of us could deal with the imediate issues of JUST an EMP with normal house hold foods and goods. The biggest issue is the nuclear explosion and I can not go into detail on what I know... but our nukes today are about 1000x more powerful than BOTH heroshima and nagasaki combine...

food for thought


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Good Morning all you out there. OK, there is another issue which also must be addresed here. IF an emp event were to take place, there is a further problem we need to look at. Often overlooked,but there none the less. Our grid system is very very old. It should have been updated over a decade ago. IF a large emp event took place , especially on the overly crowded east coast, there is a very strong chance of the domino effect. That is to say, as generating stations started trying to re route power to the stricken areas, the lines and transformers become quickly overloaded and begin to melt down. This happened a few years ago between NY and Canada. However, they did manage to contain that to the area. The fear of the gobermint is that it would be a much larger event and take out most or all of our remaining grid system. 

I cannot think of many things here in the U.S. that don't require electricity in one form or another. The food chain, the fuel and power chain, the communication system and everything connected to any of the above. Think of the enormity of this scenario, even fire trucks could not respond to fires. Ambulance's would not be able to respond, even it you could find a way to call them. Trucks could not deliver food supplies to the stores. Your computer, phones, cars and worst of all your tv LOL Nothing would be working for very long if at all. When you really sit down and think about it, try and find something that as a direct or indirect way would not be effected or rendered totally useless after a few hours. Most people want to not think about this as it is just so big it begins to become very scary in just a few minutes. The experts believe that this would account for about a 80% die off just here in the U.S. 

Most of the population when confronted with something like this, simply shrug their shoulders, and reply, the gobermint will fix it and / or take care of us ! That is why you have not heard more about it. This to me is far more scary then even a regular war here at home.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

More about the USA's *'Starfish Prime' thermonuclear bomb test * in 1962 which I briefly mentioned earlier, it wasn't strictly an EMP weapon but its pulse was stronger than expected. 
Below- The detonation seen through cloud from Hawaii, it's 900 miles away at an altitude of 250 miles.
The blast was 1.4 megatons. (the Nagasaki/Hiroshima bombs were only around a tiny 0.02 megatons by comparison)










WIKI- _"Starfish Prime caused an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) which was far larger than expected, so much larger that it drove much of the instrumentation off scale, causing great difficulty in getting accurate measurements. The Starfish Prime electromagnetic pulse also made those effects known to the public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link."_

Starfish Prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Actually, I did not watch revolution. I forgot it was on ! But, I am on the computer most of the time as well as my wife on hers and we constantly look for new events and news that you can't get on tv. We feel that we are a lot more informed this way, and besides, most tv is either reruns or junk. 

There are many different type's of events that could or would trigger a world crises. Some of which could take us a lifetime to overcome. If the entire grid were to go down, it would be really difficult to get back up and running all over again. First of all the transformers, are not made in this country any longer. Like everything else it has been outsourced to other countries. IF it were a world wide emp event, then there would not be any replacement anytime soon of said transformers and the many other sensitive electronic components needed to re-create our elec grid system.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

nadja said:


> Actually, I did not watch revolution. I forgot it was on ! But, I am on the computer most of the time as well as my wife on hers and we constantly look for new events and news that you can't get on tv. We feel that we are a lot more informed this way, and besides, most tv is either reruns or junk...


Too true, many survival films and TV shows are so full of basic mistakes that their only value is to unwittingly show us what NOT to do in an emergency..
For example in *'Rescue Dawn'*, downed pilot Christian Bale and his mate have escaped from a prison camp in Laos, taking two of the guards rifles with them-









but later they get tired of lugging them around and throw them away (at 0:25) which is a very bad call because later they run into hostile villagers at 09:10 -


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Lucky Jim. Me Thinks that you watch to much tv. You can learn something from everything of course, but I think your time would be better spend dealing with reality other the the phony stuff you watch on tv. Most of the tv type things are dreamed up to create audience's which generate money via commercials Having said that, I have been in the jungles. They never show you on tv or most movies what it is really like. I am trying to get people to start using their brains to see what could really happen. Upon closer examination of the problem alone, it should and could create further problems, which only by really thinking about it you could see possibly how to prepare for it. Lets leave the movies and games out shall we ?


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

nadja said:


> Lucky Jim. Me Thinks that you watch to much tv......Lets leave the movies and games out shall we ?


Ah, but like I said, most Hollywood films teach us what NOT to do, so in that respect they're valuable learning tools!
For example in the above clip the useful message is:- don't throw away your guns when in enemy territory..
As for games and simulations, they can teach us a lot about navigation and tactics, that's why the military train up their tank drivers, pilots and infantrymen on them, so if games are good enough for them, they're good enough for us..
For example the *Armed Assault* series is a home computer best seller-


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## socom8721 (Sep 20, 2012)

If an EMP event as you described initially had occurred, even the man with the older car would be affected. Unless you have a coil, points and a new battery laying around (that were stored and protected)... your old car is not going anywhere either...

And as for the grid... The US did a study not so long ago that stated that it would take many years to recover from even a celestial caused EMP event. And Nadja, that would also affect your solar and wind power "off grid".

Last year, governments from all over the world met here in the US and they discussed EMP damage protection, prevention and response. There are several large caches of vehicles and equipment staged all over the US (Underground) that are protected from EMP(s) so that the government can have a fuzzy warm feeling that they are prepared and can continue the Continuity of Government in such events...

yeah ok....

Look, unless you are willing to lay out the cash to really prepare, build yourself a serious Faraday protected storage facility for your equipment, put all of your critical parts in that facility and inside Faraday protected bags... then be prepared to go without the pleasantries for a while. You can even bury parts and equipment and they will be protected... just gotta use the right bags, tubes and equipment and get it deep enough.

You can have all the back up power in the world, but if it is not stored correctly it will not function...

I have tried the microwave test with the bags... Lucky Jim... they work... just make sure your seals are GOOD!!!

The plan... 

Government is gonna look out for the Government... not you, even though it is supposed to be a Government of for and by the people... Been there and done that. I got real life exp. there let me tell you.

If you are gonna be able to ride it out... 6 to 12 months of food for each person and livestock at your house is a must... not gonna be able to get anything after the event. If you don't mix up your diet with powdered milk right now and you have kids... better start, or they wont be willing to partake until they are too hungry, sick or dehydrated to matter. Use and replace your stores... it is the best plan... do not sit on it and let it go bad... that is just throwing away your hard earned money. We cook two meals a week for the family out of the freeze dried stock we have here. And the kiddos do the prep and cooking too!

Only communications that will be out there will be government and prepper nets... If you are not connected to a good net right now, better find one and get to know the folks... they will not trust newbies or outsiders after the fact.

If you do have back up power available, do not advertise the fact. That is why I do not live in the city or close to anyone else. 

If your vehicle does run, use it sparingly, intelligently and be prepared to protect it with your life... if you drive into town, the local establishment will most likely commandeer your operational vehicle and then track back to your base of operations and take anything else you have that they might need to use.


look, anything you do automated right now... be prepared not to have it available anymore... preparedness wise, have manually operated equipment in protected environment...

ie bicycle generators, battery grids, wind up electrical devices (radios, lights etc) candles, hurricane lamps, matches... coleman fuel and propane.

Water and Sewer will not be operational... if you do not have a well... well then you need to be close to someone who does and have the ability to filter and or boil your water, store it and keep it clean. If you have saved up real silver coins... they will help.

You will need a place to dispose of your fecal matter... it builds up quicker than you realize.

Kid got asthma/diabetes or other ailments?? Do you have medical equipment or medicine stored?

There is so much more!


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Socom Actually, I do have a spare inverter and a couple of c-60 charge controllers put aside. They are about to go into an older custom made truck tool box and sealed inside. I have spare diodes for my solar panels, as a friend of mine who was an elect. engineer for nasa told me that they would be the damaged part of my solar panels. 

I get a lot of my food packed in #10 cans from a morman friend of mine that goes to the morman kitchen about once a month. I built his house about 15 years ago. He is ex Air America, and a 20 year Marine. Good friend. I buy a lot of the Auguson Farms long term food in #10 cans when I go into the big city (Sholow) about 40 miles from me. 

As far as livestock at my house, I live in the upper Arizona Desert and this is open range country. Cattle everywhere. Goats just a couple of miles away, and many of my friends around here raise chickens mostly for the eggs. My first aid supplies go a little beyond simple first aid, and my wife is an R.N. 

The only thing I would be driving for , is to trade vegies for beef , goat meat and chickens and eggs. We are all on wells out here and I have 3 gennies, while my friend actually has 6. Redundance is the key !

There are a few other things of course, but also things you do NOT want to discuss on the net. 1984 IS here. 


Besides my dogs as an early warning system, I also have wireless drive way alerts , not nec. just covering my driveway. Will pick up a couple of more from ebay , as I wanted to test them out first. The 20.00 or less units, battery powered work very well out to about 300 ft. Should the time every really come, I was in the service 65'-69 and still remember how to creat shall we say deterants that will really spoil your entire week. 

I built my septic tank about 16 years ago, and another friend just bought a new John Deere Extend a Hoe, which will be coming over here in a couple of more weeks. I intend to dig a second septic tank and leach field as My oldest daughter will probably be coming over in her rv. I have also built a super rain collection system for my roof, and just about finished with the one on my shop/solar building. I also have the tanks to store larger amounts of water, pumps to transfer the water into my main tank, and will over the winter be building a 55 gal sand/rock water filter. Ah.... Still need a lot more tp !


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## David Davidson (Jul 20, 2012)

If an EMP is off, chances are cars will still start. Maybe the car radio won't start, but ignition probably will since they aren't computerized. If it doesn't, that means the pulse was powerful enough to fry the wires together, in which case you your solar power backup will not work either.

Perhaps you are not as smart as you think you are.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

David, I have spare diodes for all my solar panels, spare inverter, and two new in the box spare charge controller. I also have spools of wire , J boxes and just about anything else I would need to rebuild my solar system I also have spare computers for my car and my truck. And you ? 

Your ignition is not computerized ? You must have a very old car then. Your ign. may not be computerized, but your car in order to run , must have a working computer to allow it to start and run. If you don't believe me, un plug your computer and see if your car will start and run. 

Emp's can be from either the sun or a nuclear high up blast.


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## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Ah, but like I said, most Hollywood films teach us what NOT to do, so in that respect they're valuable learning tools!
> For example in the above clip the useful message is:- don't throw away your guns when in enemy territory..
> As for games and simulations, they can teach us a lot about navigation and tactics, that's why the military train up their tank drivers, pilots and infantrymen on them, so if games are good enough for them, they're good enough for us..
> For example the *Armed Assault* series is a home computer best seller-


I work for the world's largest defense contractor and happen to also work in the simulation division. We build equipment that trains our troops before they go into a country by the road/path they will take down to the window and doors that they will see in theator. The feedback we get from the troops upon return to the states is that after training when they arrive in country they know the route just like they drive it everyday to work.

Simulation has reached a new level of fidelity & realism in many aspects. I'm a firm believer that it can train certain reactions & responses, in fact it can make "the right" reaction to any given event "automatic".

1895gunner


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

1895gunner said:


> ..Simulation has reached a new level of fidelity & realism in many aspects. I'm a firm believer that it can train certain reactions & responses, in fact it can make "the right" reaction to any given event "automatic"..


Absolutely, and even home computer games can teach us lots of stuff, I did a thread about it here-
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-talk/1203-pc-wargames-navigation-training-tools.html


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Hey I just had an idea!- Most planes are made of metal, so maybe we could buy an old wreck (minus wings and tail) and site it at the bottom of our garden so that we could hole up in it for a while with our radios and TV's etc to protect them from EM pulse if a nuke war or incoming solar flare is imminent? What do our electronics experts think?
And we could tape cooking foil over the windows so the pulse couldn't get through the glass.

For example here's the tinny inside of a Cargomaster, plenty of space for us to hunker down in sleeping bags listening to our radios til the threat of EM pulse has passed-









And this guy has actually got an entire derelict airliner at the bottom of his garden..


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Nice demonstration of EM pulse in this clip at 2:20 when a nuclear bomb airburst blows out the lights and vehicle ignitions.
Remember, airbursts can still blow out lights hundreds of miles away, like when a US nuke test over the Pacific shorted out lights in Hawaii 900 miles away (see pic earlier in this thread), they don't have to explode directly over cities do do their dirty work-


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

In the late 1880's , a solar flare melted telegraph wires all over the place. That was even before we knew what an emp was. This is something that as we get closer to the end of the year and for about the first 3 months next year has a very high probability factor from the sun


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## WVTactics (Mar 26, 2012)

The very first thing that would come to my mind is Solar EMP. I would instantly grab my bag and figure out what chaos has already been started in my town. Get to the closest family members to me and get them all ready and have them to start scavenging with me. I would hit up my local grocery, pharmacies, and hardware stores. I would need to get all the medication that is necisarry for my and my family, as much non-parishables that I could grab, and get all the hardware that I could use to maybe build a type of transportation (If engines wouldn't run). Not forgetting I need gasoline to run things if options come available again. Now that that is taken care of, get everything ready and head straight to my BOL. Thank god my options was available that I have a place walking distance from my house I would just head there. 

This is what I would do at first then the major things like communication, warnings, and further preperations would be taken care of as the obstacle comes.


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## preppermama (Aug 8, 2012)

As soon as I rolled out of bed and realized the magnitude of the situation, I'd get on my bike and head to my father-in-law’s house 5 miles away. He collects classic autos. I'd borrow whichever vehicle we could get started, fill up with the gas I siphoned out of my other vehicles (since gas stations won't be open) and head to town to collect my elderly parents and grandmother from the nursing homes roughly 30 miles away. As we know from Katrina, those kind of places turn into death camps during a long term disaster/SHTF situation. 

I would definitely arm myself for the trip and bring someone along with me to guard the car with a gun while I was collecting people. Hopefully I could get in and out of town before chaos ensued, but you never know. I would also bring most of the cash I had on-hand to dicker with some of the small Asian/mom-and-pop grocery stores for whatever else I can get for food stores and supplies. I would target Asian grocers because a lot of times those people live right on site and are willing to operate without electricity. Actually I was in one once when the power went out and they just kept on working and selling people stuff. They also sell HUGE sacks of rice, bulk noodles, candles, canned goods, spices, etc for really cheap. 

Getting out of Dodge and back home quickly would be next, dropping people off at my place. If things were still calm and there were supplies available in town, I might consider making an extra trip to town to collect more supplies. Honestly, I think 90 percent of the population wouldn't have any clue what was going on. They’d still be thinking the situation would sort itself out in a day or so. 

We are pretty well setup with supplies and food; although this is an area I am always adding to. I've tried to prep with skills/books first and supplies second. I've got books on foraging, canning, etc. I've also made it a point to stock tools that work without electricity. 

We live right on a lake so water and food would not be a huge issue at first. We also have a manual pump house on site.

Figuring out alternative heating/cooling would be our next big issue, regardless of the season. With the elderly you have to keep them cool in the summer or you get into big trouble. I've got a basement full of wood, but that would dwindle quickly in the winter with daily use. I would have people head out on foraging/hunting/wood collecting shifts daily. 

Keeping my relatives from strangling each other and driving us crazy would be a huge issue. Also having a bunch of elderly folks with various mental health issues without their meds would definitely create some chaos. I have no way to stock the prescriptions these people need, nor do I have the money to. I hate to admit this, but on my second trip back to town it would be tempting to hit a pharmacy and get a good supply of the major pills they need by whatever means necessary. Honestly, I don't know if I could loot/steal, but I would consider it. 

Talking with neighbors and banding together with them would be another priority. Out in rural areas I think we would be dealing with large influxes of roving people, searching for food, shelter, and trouble. I would make sure my neighbors were armed and that we had a clear communication system in place to protect our small neighborhood. I would also make sure my elderly neighbors were checked in on regularly. 

My kid is yelling for me so I have to end this here, but thanks for the post. This was very thought provoking. Please post more of these scenarios!


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## acidlittle (Jan 24, 2012)

I would load up every magazine I had, move all my food to a central location and start boarding up windows. Siphon all the gas out of my cars, get all my nudie magazines out of the attic, crack open a beer and wait for all the college students to leave the city. They would all probably try and get back home to their parents so the city would end up being 50% empty after a few weeks...food would be scarce I know, but I'm fairly good at scavenging. Plus I have at least a winters food in my house, so I wouldn't worry about that, also have about 6-10 months fire wood for the fire place. Then I'd start scrounging for rock and cement and building at least some sort of wall around my house that would be a hurdle for invaders to overcome......purely hypothetical. I'd actually probably shit my pants and run in circles screaming!


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## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

Get in the BOV, turn the Key(Yes it is old and HIGHLY modified!!), open the Garage, Push the wifes rig out of the way with my truck and start heading for the mountains! I have SEVERAL different escape routes depending on the type of SHTF situation we find our selves in? and none of which include any major roads or highway systems. I have lived in Colorado all my life and been priveed to the mountains almost as much as I could go. I know of and have mapped many places I.E. Ghost Towns, Mining Camps and a lot of old Prospector Cabins. Plus cave systems that go deep and I mean deep into several of the 10k plus feet mountains here. So bug out of the City as slowly as it takes to be safe my truck is built for going over stuff geared and all and has highway gears as well so no issue there!! But there IS NOT 1 vehicle on planet earth that can slam into shit afetr shit at 70 mph and keep going. So I go slow enough to be safe and actually get there!! Wife and Daughter strapped into the 4 point racing harness' attached to the roll cage my dogs hop in the back. and we go!! I get them to one of many locations, I leave her with a couple rifles and plenty of food, ammo, and water. And I go with 1 dog back into the City leaving 2 with her and start rescuing family and getting as many as I can and is willing! There is a lot more but I think I may have typed to much as it is!!

Also I couldnt agree with acidlittle more - There will be A LOT of shitty pants and im sure mine will be one of them, I just hope I can do everything with shit rolling down my leg. . . I think that no matter what military training I or anyone may have or ANY training for that matter, I do beleive it helps a lot but its going to scare 99% of everyone one way or another!!


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

acidlittle said:


> I would load up every magazine I had, move all my food to a central location and start boarding up windows...


Ah, so you're a city feller like me..
I plan to stay put in the city too, and only get out when/if I HAVE to. I haven't got a bugout location outside town anyway.
It all depends on what kind of disaster hits us of course, but cities would at least provide shelter, especially in winter and I wouldn't fancy wandering round the countryside.
In 'the Day After Tomorrow' the people who holed up in frozen New York survived, but those who decided to trek south in snowstorms perished in the snowy wastes.
Jake's dad gives him some good advice at 2 minutes- _"Do *not* go out. Stay inside and try to wait it out_"






_Jesus said- "Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning until now-and never to be equaled again"- (Mark 13:18)_


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