# dang they got me again banned for two months at sb.



## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

If you go to you tube and type police misconduct, you will get pages and pages of hits on tape, so no one can argue. police is a nice, safe job, it pays well, and comes with a pension. relax leo's, enjoy your good fortune. I for one personaly do not believe some of the b.s. and self promotion you say, not cop bashing, please dont feint./ well now its a two month ban worth 60 points whatever that means its definatly a all leo all the time site befor the slash was what i said didnt think it was so bad


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

oldmurph58 said:


> If you go to you tube and type police misconduct, you will get pages and pages of hits on tape, so no one can argue. police is a nice, safe job, it pays well, and comes with a pension. relax leo's, enjoy your good fortune. I for one personaly do not believe some of the b.s. and self promotion you say, not cop bashing, please dont feint./ well now its a two month ban worth 60 points whatever that means its definatly a all leo all the time site befor the slash was what i said didnt think it was so bad


Survivalistboards is a joke. They hand out 2 month suspensions for talking about the police in anything but glowing language. There is no such thing as freedom of speech there.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

I haven't been there in ages. It got to where it was a flaming board and ALMOST everyone is a know it all.. Most prlly learned what they know by watching doomsday preppers..


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Honestly most people dont want to know the truth even here.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Is that where survivalist77 went to troll?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

This is why LEO has become what it is. No one is allowed to talk about of expose it.
Just like teachers, they rape and molest far more children than any church ever did but the press and sights cover it up.
Just the sad world we live in now


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

ApexPredator said:


> Honestly most people dont want to know the truth even here.










I agree!


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## Conundrum99 (Feb 16, 2014)

You are better off here away.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

You've been back 2 weeks from a one month ban for cop bashing. Today you've posted six times doing the same thing again. Saying you aren't bashing cops isn't some innocence claim when you then bash cops in that same post. It is against the rules. You were told that when you were banned for a month. You obviously know that now or you wouldn't make the little disclaimer right before you make your cop bashing posts.

Either abide by the forum rules when you return or find a cop bashing forum and have at it. This is not one.
-------

This infraction is worth 60 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
LAPD discipline case raises questions of favoritism - Survivalist Forum
your right about that conundrum99 ilike you guys and this site


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Out of control LEO and nothing you can do about it.
Kansas family's $25G probe pins fruitless SWAT team raid on science project or tea | Fox News


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

I read that. What a bunch of dinkballs. The judge who gave 'em the meritless warrant too.


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## bad (Feb 22, 2014)

I know a lot of great law enforcement people and don't comment on the rough videos that seen from time to time. 

I think the big problem in law enforcement is that about 80% of the crime is from organized crime, ie gangs. The police have contact with these types of people and way more than the average person does. These gangs will kill any cop out of hand, no biggie. Like any guerrilla war you can't always spot the bad from the good. 

It is truly unfortunate that incidents happen.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

If a sympathetic SB member see's your posts on another forum,they can copy and paste that into a PM to a SB Mod,and you get more points and more days.

It happened to me.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Out of control LEO and nothing you can do about it.
> Kansas family's $25G probe pins fruitless SWAT team raid on science project or tea | Fox News


There is absolutely no due process anymore.

Who are these no conscience, low IQ brownshirts who willingly and knowingly participate in this kind of crap?

This is why I am so inclined to believe that the majority of Law Enforcement officers are spineless, corrupt scumbags...if they weren't, this sort of thing wouldn't be happening with such frequency. If they weren't, more officers would be speaking out against what's clearly happening. Instead, they circle the wagons, defend one another's criminal behavior, and make the same tired old excuses for their criminality.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I use to post over at SB years ago, then I ran into a member of the law enforcement community that was trolling and then flaming anyone who didn't agree with him. I didn't agree with him because he was really not very knowledgeable. I was in was a dammed if I do and damn if it don't situation so I bagged posting at SB chalked it up as experience and pressed on. 

I'm neutral towards law enforcement members posting on prepper/survivalist boards. In their professional life they are held to a higher standard of conduct than the general public, and that's the way it should be. It also should also be noted that higher standard of conduct doesn't end when they hang up the hat and gun and go home after their shift.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Out of control LEO and nothing you can do about it.
> Kansas family's $25G probe pins fruitless SWAT team raid on science project or tea | Fox News


At least in this case it looks like it was the Sheriff's dept. So at least the people of the county can vote him out. When the police do something like this, not much can be done about it. I would like to see all chief of police to be an elected position that would help cut a lot of this corruption out.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Charles Martel said:


> Survivalistboards is a joke. They hand out 2 month suspensions for talking about the police in anything but glowing language. There is no such thing as freedom of speech there.


Let me play Devil's Advocate here.
"Free speech" does not apply to private enterprise. Nor does it apply in my house. You will not come in my living room and say whatever you please, nor would I expect to do so in your living room.
Survivalist Boards is Kev's "house". 
He sets the rules in his house. One of those rules is no bashing of police or military. There are plenty of threads over there that contain legitimate gripes about LEO's. But when someone crosses the line and gets nasty the rules are applied. 
This forum has rules also, every one on the net does. 
Don't like the rules, do not go there.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am a long time member of Survivalist Boards. Not only that, but am closely related to more than one LEO. And for the record, they are not jerks. Nor are most cops.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

But reporting fact is not bashing. There is a difference.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Let me play Devil's Advocate here.
> "Free speech" does not apply to private enterprise. Nor does it apply in my house. You will not come in my living room and say whatever you please, nor would I expect to do so in your living room. Survivalist Boards is Kev's "house". He sets the rules in his house.


Naturally. Kev's house, Kev's rules. I'm a libertarian...I have no problem with that.



rice paddy daddy said:


> One of those rules is no bashing of police or military. There are plenty of threads over there that contain legitimate gripes about LEO's. But when someone crosses the line and gets nasty the rules are applied.


This is where we will have to agree to disagree. The rules (specifically those related to "cop bashing") are very unevenly and inconsistently enforced on SB. I have seen suspensions handed out for ridiculously minor things. I was given a 6 month ban and the moderator involved couldn't even articulate the reasons for it. He is a blithering idiot.



rice paddy daddy said:


> This forum has rules also, every one on the net does.
> Don't like the rules, do not go there.


Hence, my presence on this board.



rice paddy daddy said:


> In the interest of full disclosure, I am a long time member of Survivalist Boards. Not only that, but am closely related to more than one LEO. And for the record, they are not jerks. Nor are most cops.


Well...good for you...I guess...?

I'm also related to more than one LEO. Every one of them are unmitigated shit-for-brains who get off on harassing and hurting people. They are the absolute shame of our family (most of us are scientists, engineers, business owners, college professors, etc.). I find most cops to be imperious, over-compensatory, testosterone driven assholes who only became cops because they thought it would be slightly more respectable than driving a bus or pushing a broom for a living. Candidly, I'd much prefer having any number of bus drivers and janitors in the family than the ridiculous, peacocking ass clowns calling themselves police officers.

I'm just sayin'.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> But reporting fact is not bashing. There is a difference.


Indeed. My last post was bashing. However, I see very little need to bash most of the time. The facts make America's law enforcement community look far worse than my mildly profane and slightly dramatic rant above.


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## Go2ndAmend (Apr 5, 2013)

I'll throw my 2 cents into this thread. I agree with Rice Paddy Daddy, quit your belly aching. Being a LEO is a tough, demanding job. Are some of them corrupt - yes. Are some them power tripping jerks - yes. However most are just hard working professionals who only want to do their job and come home to their families each night.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

shall we form a forum vigilante group and pay this page a visit, quoting "we have freedom of speech rights written in blood"


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Heck if you thought getting banned form SB was bad you should have tried SF before it went belly up. Now that placed was an anything goes kind of forum. Merciless and barbaric comes to mind. No moderation what so ever!

SB is Kevin's house I encourage all LEO's to check it out, it's very pro law enforcement. If you are LE then maybe it's more to your liking than being here where where less than favorable (albeit factual) posts and threads sometimes show members of the LEO community to be capable of mistakes, sometimes horrific mistakes and even sometimes criminal mistakes.


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## Bossman (Jan 22, 2014)

Ok Guys time for my once a month post, I put on a uniform every morning and a gun that makes me a target(and my Family).
Yes there are bad cops, just as there are bad Professors, scientist, preachers, and every other walk of life.
Take teenagers, we never hear about the good kid just the bad.
Why do people pick the worst people they know to be better than?
Just asking.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Bossman said:


> Ok Guys time for my once a month post, I put on a uniform every morning and a gun that makes me a target(and my Family).
> Yes there are bad cops, just as there are bad Professors, scientist, preachers, and every other walk of life.
> Take teenagers, we never hear about the good kid just the bad.
> Why do people pick the worst people they know to be better than?
> Just asking.


Some people seem to have an agenda, Bossman.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Let me play Devil's Advocate here.
> "Free speech" does not apply to private enterprise. Nor does it apply in my house. You will not come in my living room and say whatever you please, nor would I expect to do so in your living room.
> Survivalist Boards is Kev's "house".
> He sets the rules in his house. One of those rules is no bashing of police or military. There are plenty of threads over there that contain legitimate gripes about LEO's. But when someone crosses the line and gets nasty the rules are applied.
> ...


You told me that the first time I got banned too, and your right, but this and my other sites are survival sites. There are over a million cop chat rooms on the net, My family has a lot of cops, and firemen, and nurses. I love em all, but I think im a honest guy, i like war stories too, but when people say stuff i dont agree with i sometimes call bull. Its in my nature, so i get hit, ill hit back. no biggy. sorry if kev is your hero and i offended you, bro, survivalist boards is not a survival site. Its a site for cops. He will continue to let them rant, Just like we rant here but it aint a prepper site! Here we got cops that seem to actualy think, sometime they're pro leo, sometimes they are the first ones to screem this is b.s. I respect our guys, leo non leo all of em here. This is a prepper site!


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

Bossman said:


> Ok Guys time for my once a month post, I put on a uniform every morning and a gun that makes me a target(and my Family).
> Yes there are bad cops, just as there are bad Professors, scientist, preachers, and every other walk of life.
> Take teenagers, we never hear about the good kid just the bad.
> Why do people pick the worst people they know to be better than?
> Just asking.


I guess its human nature, if a kid hears, "joe the football hero is sooo great" over and over, and he aint a football hero, and feel's slighted,well, when joe rapes the homecomming Queen, pete's gonna let everyone know what joe did. Just human nature, is what i think, but really not good at psycology.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

"I'm also related to more than one LEO. Every one of them are unmitigated shit-for-brains who get off on harassing and hurting people. They are the absolute shame of our family (most of us are scientists, engineers, business owners, college professors, etc.). I find most cops to be imperious, over-compensatory, testosterone driven assholes who only became cops because they thought it would be slightly more respectable than driving a bus or pushing a broom for a living. Candidly, I'd much prefer having any number of bus drivers and janitors in the family than the ridiculous, peacocking ass clowns calling themselves police officers." CHARLES MARTEL




Most people that hate cops are the people who wish they were cops. they are the ones who watch cop shows and fantasizes to be one. the cop bashers, most of them will be the first ones to call 911 when they fall victim to a criminal and expect the cops to instantly solve the crime committed against them. and if not, they will make complaints on how bad the cop was and how he was so inept, making it look like it was the fault of the police that they became a victim of a crime.

cops are held to higher standard and that is good. not all police are able to maintain that standards and that is sad but it is the truth. As for the bashers, most of them have no standards at all. They just make things up as they go along and make it sound good for themselves, but in reality its either they want to be cops but could not make the cut or they are simply just scared to be one. bashers say the same thing about the military too. they say that people who join the military are people who could not get a job anywhere. Believe it or not some people train and prepare all their life to be in the military or LE.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

oldmurph58 said:


> You told me that the first time I got banned too, and your right, but this and my other sites are survival sites. There are over a million cop chat rooms on the net, My family has a lot of cops, and firemen, and nurses. I love em all, but I think im a honest guy, i like war stories too, but when people say stuff i dont agree with i sometimes call bull. Its in my nature, so i get hit, ill hit back. no biggy. sorry if kev is your hero and i offended you, bro, survivalist boards is not a survival site. Its a site for cops. He will continue to let them rant, Just like we rant here but it aint a prepper site! Here we got cops that seem to actualy think, sometime they're pro leo, sometimes they are the first ones to screem this is b.s. I respect our guys, leo non leo all of em here. This is a prepper site!


Plus I'll bet we are the only prepper site on the intertubes with a thread dedicated to poop stories! (That is important.)


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> If a sympathetic SB member see's your posts on another forum,they can copy and paste that into a PM to a SB Mod,and you get more points and more days.
> 
> It happened to me.


 Post away if they will, we are on a real prepper site, fudge em! Also see page one of this thread I posted my e mail suspension from the board I dont worry too much about them. MOLON LABE! (come and get me?)


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

Go2ndAmend said:


> I'll throw my 2 cents into this thread. I agree with Rice Paddy Daddy, quit your belly aching. Being a LEO is a tough, demanding job. Are some of them corrupt - yes. Are some them power tripping jerks - yes. However most are just hard working professionals who only want to do their job and come home to their families each night.


 my reply is to quote smitty." But reporting fact is not bashing. There is a difference." officer!


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> "I'm also related to more than one LEO. Every one of them are unmitigated shit-for-brains who get off on harassing and hurting people. They are the absolute shame of our family (most of us are scientists, engineers, business owners, college professors, etc.). I find most cops to be imperious, over-compensatory, testosterone driven assholes who only became cops because they thought it would be slightly more respectable than driving a bus or pushing a broom for a living. Candidly, I'd much prefer having any number of bus drivers and janitors in the family than the ridiculous, peacocking ass clowns calling themselves police officers." CHARLES MARTEL
> 
> Most people that hate cops are the people who wish they were cops. they are the ones who watch cop shows and fantasizes to be one. the cop bashers, most of them will be the first ones to call 911 when they fall victim to a criminal and expect the cops to instantly solve the crime committed against them. and if not, they will make complaints on how bad the cop was and how he was so inept, making it look like it was the fault of the police that they became a victim of a crime. .
> 
> cops are held to higher standard and that is good. not all police are able to maintain that standards and that is sad but it is the truth. As for the bashers, most of them have no standards at all. They just make things up as they go along and make it sound good for themselves, but in reality its either they want to be cops but could not make the cut or they are simply just scared to be one. bashers say the same thing about the military too. they say that people who join the military are people who could not get a job anywhere. Believe it or not some people train and prepare all their life to be in the military or LE.


 your doing good kid your posting, now the but, I went to school to be a nurse, after I got out of the army, I'm good at it . I just stated a new job ,for a $11.00/ hr raise, and I'm entering late 50's. If I bitch about a video of a cop murdering a suspect, its just a whine. I dont want to run, in the dark, trip, and fall, to catch some teenager who threw a egg! Fudge that dude . Thats for young guys . let my baby brother do that stuff, I dont wanna be a cop. The Hammer, spent years in school. He doesnt want to sell his business, take a pay cut, and also trip in the dark, to be a cop! People who want to be cops, find a way to become cops. I dont want to be one, but if somethin is terrible wrong, I'll still sound off. I just think murder is a biggy. thanks bro, keep postin.Some of your post is good, but not everyone wants to be a leo.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

I don't like cops to much.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

You da man, Bro


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> Most people that hate cops are the people who wish they were cops. they are the ones who watch cop shows and fantasizes to be one. the cop bashers, most of them will be the first ones to call 911 when they fall victim to a criminal and expect the cops to instantly solve the crime committed against them. and if not, they will make complaints on how bad the cop was and how he was so inept, making it look like it was the fault of the police that they became a victim of a crime.


Ha! I very nearly spilled hot apple cider on my lap upon reading this.:lol:

I can assure you that I have never, not even for a moment, considered law enforcement as a career. Not even when I was recruited by the FBI after earning my undergraduate degree. I can't think of a less interesting, less dignified field of employment (seriously, given my libertarian ideals, I'd rather dig ditches for a living). Moreover, I would have to score 50+ points lower on standardized IQ tests for many agencies to even consider my application.

FWIW, I don't watch cop shows (they bore the shit out of me), and I'm more than capable of taking care of my own with regards to criminal attacks.



mhans827 said:


> cops are held to higher standard and that is good. not all police are able to maintain that standards and that is sad but it is the truth. As for the bashers, most of them have no standards at all. They just make things up as they go along and make it sound good for themselves, but in reality its either they want to be cops but could not make the cut or they are simply just scared to be one.


Police officers aren't the only group of people held to high ethical, moral, and professional standards. And it doesn't make one a cop basher to observe and note very troubling trends regarding law enforcement in this country. There is no disputing that the law enforcement community has changed dramatically within the last 2 to 3 decades. We aren't making these things up...we don't have to...we report facts and express outrage as our police continue to act more like paramilitary goons than peace officers sworn to "protect and serve" civilians within their jurisdictions.

It's absolutely laughable to state that the only reasons people don't become cops are:

a) they "could not make the cut", or

b) they're "simply just scared to be one"

I hate to bust your bubble, but, most of us become something other than police officers because we have far better options in life. People with advanced cognitive abilities don't become police officers. Very, very rarely will a high IQ individual become interested in law enforcement and pursue that particular career path (the FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies manage to persuade a small number of high IQ individuals to join them, but, as a species law enforcement officers are not the brightest lights in the night sky). High IQ people are attracted to the sciences, engineering, medicine, music, the arts, etc.



mhans827 said:


> bashers say the same thing about the military too. they say that people who join the military are people who could not get a job anywhere. Believe it or not some people train and prepare all their life to be in the military or LE.


Studies suggest that soldiers are brighter, on average, than those in law enforcement...and those at the highest levels of the military (admirals, generals, joint chiefs, etc.) are actually very, very bright. For this reason, the military scares me far more than the police ever will. Crooked cops are nothing more than common criminals with badges and guns...the military is a different animal entirely.

There's no doubt that a certain percentage of the law enforcement community dreamed about being cops their entire lives...it doesn't necessarily follow that they ever had any better options, though.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

oldmurph58 said:


> ...I went to school to be a nurse, after I got out of the army, I'm good at it.


Like I said, Murph, high IQ people are often attracted to the medical professions...


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Charles Martel said:


> Ha! I very nearly spilled hot apple cider on my lap upon reading this.:lol:
> 
> I can assure you that I have never, not even for a moment, considered law enforcement as a career. Not even when I was recruited by the FBI after earning my undergraduate degree. I can't think of a less interesting, less dignified field of employment (seriously, given my libertarian ideals, I'd rather dig ditches for a living). Moreover, I would have to score 50+ points lower on standardized IQ tests for many agencies to even consider my application.
> 
> ...


I HATE CROOKED COPS. I DO NOT TOLERATE THEM AND I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO REPORT CORRUPTION AND ABUSE OF AUTHORITY. but you martel think you are better than everyone else. you claim you can handle yourself but you have not done anything about your abusive cop family members. by the way, a big portion of active LEO's are prior military, reservist or National Guardsman. not all cops are bad or stupid. now you go ahead and shove that apple pie down your throat


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Turtle again. Must be the weather.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

oldmurph58 said:


> your doing good kid your posting, now the but, I went to school to be a nurse, after I got out of the army, I'm good at it . I just stated a new job ,for a $11.00/ hr raise, and I'm entering late 50's. If I bitch about a video of a cop murdering a suspect, its just a whine. I dont want to run, in the dark, trip, and fall, to catch some teenager who threw a egg! Fudge that dude . Thats for young guys . let my baby brother do that stuff, I dont wanna be a cop. The Hammer, spent years in school. He doesnt want to sell his business, take a pay cut, and also trip in the dark, to be a cop! People who want to be cops, find a way to become cops. I dont want to be one, but if somethin is terrible wrong, I'll still sound off. I just think murder is a biggy. thanks bro, keep postin.Some of your post is good, but not everyone wants to be a leo.


100% correct murph.... LE is not or everyone and I never said it is. also, I have no problem voicing out police corruption or abuse of authority. In fact these actions should be reported and dealt with. if you have read some of my post, you may actually think I hate cops for some of my post. not every LEO is a zombie...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

E-gad, do they ever get tired of whining about how dangerous, tough and demanding the "job" is? I wake up in pain and go to sleep in pain. I need more surgeries to try and alleviate various pains, but youngun's college comes first, so I'll keep living in pain. None of my pain is from C.J. days. As far as I am concerned, driving trucks and building helicopters are much more dangerous jobs. I guess that means I can beat a truck or a helicopter to bits with a wrench and I'll have some of you tell others I did it so I could go home, tonight? Sheesh!

If you find your job to be so dangerous that you need to kill innocent people or defend people who do, get the hell out of it. Period. You are in the wrong field. Oh, and I know and talk to current and former C.J. folks every day. Half of them are jerks. None of them understand how they violate their oath of office every day, regardless of their personality.

Actions I see today are contemptuous, and I'll bet they are going to get worse. A friend's hubby was recently interviewed by an ATF agent in regard to an FFL application. During the conversation the soon-retiring agent explained the attitudes of the new agents. They have no respect for the experienced agents and no respect for the citizens. They believe the citizen had better do as he is told or expect pain. The soon-retiring agent sees this as an institutional change of course and is looking forward to retirement.

Institutional change of course. I'd say that sums it up.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

In other words, it isn't the individual (cop), it is the system.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> I HATE CROOKED COPS. I DO NOT TOLERATE THEM AND I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO REPORT CORRUPTION AND ABUSE OF AUTHORITY.


Good! We have common ground.



mhans827 said:


> but you martel think you are better than everyone else.


Nah, I don't think I'm better than anybody. I'll be the first to admit that I'm an incredibly flawed human being. However, I've come to dislike the imperious, overbearing attitude and militarized tactics that seem to have become standard within America's law enforcement communities.



mhans827 said:


> you claim you can handle yourself but you have not done anything about your abusive cop family members.


What, precisely, do you suggest I do about them? I've met their supervisors...they're just as imperious, abusive, and dimwitted as my niece's husbands are.



mhans827 said:


> by the way, a big portion of active LEO's are prior military, reservist or National Guardsman.


It's true, a growing number of law enforcement officers are ex-military. This may be part of the problem. We're putting combat hardened enlisted personnel, many with undiagnosed PTSD, on the streets of American towns and cities to police civilians. Brilliant idea!



mhans827 said:


> not all cops are bad or stupid.


No, but an increasing number are both. Standards are falling, and so is performance.

When I was a kid, we looked up to police officers. They came to our schools and talked to us about safety and good citizenship. Though they carried guns, they also wore big smiles. They wore sharp blue uniforms and came bearing treats. They were the good guys, and I always believed I could find and approach a police officer if I was lost, or if I needed help.

Times have changed. The police have changed. Cops aren't like they used to be. I would no more teach my child to approach a cop for help now than I would teach her to approach a rattlesnake, or a mountain lion.



mhans827 said:


> now you go ahead and shove that apple pie down your throat


Sweet...apple pie!


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Charles Martel said:


> Good! We have common ground.
> 
> Nah, I don't think I'm better than anybody. I'll be the first to admit that I'm an incredibly flawed human being. However, I've come to dislike the imperious, overbearing attitude and militarized tactics that seem to have become standard within America's law enforcement communities.
> 
> ...


If you don't get results from Internal Affairs you can always report bad police to the Attorney General.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> If you don't get results from Internal Affairs you can always report bad police to the Attorney General.


Yeah, and make myself a target for every police officer within a hundred miles? If you haven't noticed, cops tend to be clannish. They tend to circle the wagons to protect their own.

I have no interest in being storm troopered, thanks.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Charles Martel said:


> Yeah, and make myself a target for every police officer within a hundred miles? If you haven't noticed, cops tend to be clannish. They tend to circle the wagons to protect their own.
> 
> I have no interest in being storm troopered, thanks.


well, Mr. King Charles Martel.... if you are not going to do anything, just tuck your tail and keep quiet.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> well, Mr. King Charles Martel.... if you are not going to do anything, just tuck your tail and keep quiet.


Discretion has always been the better part of valor. I choose my battles carefully and wisely. This is why I am in my position in life. I will announce my candidacy for major public office next year. If elected, I will attack police corruption and abuse from a position of power, instead of relying on corrupt Internal Affairs officers and District Attorneys for justice.

This is the difference between people like you, and people like me. I think...you don't. I get results while you bang your head against the system like a gorilla.

Run along, kid. Leave the important stuff to the adults.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Charles Martel said:


> Discretion has always been the better part of valor. I choose my battles carefully and wisely. This is why I am in my position in life. I will announce my candidacy for major public office next year. If elected, I will attack police corruption and abuse from a position of power, instead of relying on corrupt Internal Affairs officers and District Attorneys for justice.
> 
> This is the difference between people like you, and people like me. I think...you don't. I get results while you bang your head against the system like a gorilla.
> 
> Run along, kid. Leave the important stuff to the adults.


so what do you do if you don't get elected Mr. King?... how will you fix the problem? :grin:


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> so what do you do if you don't get elected Mr. King?... how will you fix the problem? :grin:


I'll cross that bridge if/when I get to it.

If at first you don't succeed...


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Charles Martel said:


> I'll cross that bridge if/when I get to it.
> 
> If at first you don't succeed...


If you intend to run for office and fight corruption, I hope you get elected. I just hope you won't look at all LEO's as stupid and corrupt, because when you get to your high elected position, you will need good LEO's


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Yeah I am a long time member of SB and have a lot of respect for Kev. But the truth is the rules aren't always equally enforced fairly across the broad. While I still occasionally lurk there and even on rarer occasions post there the fact that they are not is the reason I spend more time here where my time is better spent.


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## Dogsrule (Mar 28, 2014)

I know oldmurph58 from SB and I've read here for a long time. This topic made me sign up and so I put oldmurph58 as my referrer!



ETA the reason I signed up is because this is a better forum, SB sucks.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello from Minnesota Dogman.


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## Dogsrule (Mar 28, 2014)

Inor said:


> Hello from Minnesota Dogman.


Dang, Dogman sounds like a better username!


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Dogsrule said:


> I know oldmurph58 from SB and I've read here for a long time. This topic made me sign up and so I put oldmurph58 as my referrer!
> 
> ETA the reason I signed up is because this is a better forum, SB sucks.


Well, who can argue with references as shady as those? You should fit right in.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

mhans827 said:


> If you intend to run for office and fight corruption, I hope you get elected. I just hope you won't look at all LEO's as stupid and corrupt, because when you get to your high elected position, you will need good LEO's


Who are the good LEOs? The ones who think they are good? The ones who feel righteous as they unknowingly violate their oath of office, or violate it because they feel they are doing it for some greater cause?

Good LEOs are the ones who are not "law enforcement" officers. The good ones are the ones who actually abide by their oath of office. How many are there? Not many. Even the ones who naturally do it, they don't know why they are true peace officers and not "law enforcement officers.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> Who are the good LEOs? The ones who think they are good? The ones who feel righteous as they unknowingly violate their oath of office, or violate it because they feel they are doing it for some greater cause?
> 
> Good LEOs are the ones who are not "law enforcement" officers. The good ones are the ones who actually abide by their oath of office. How many are there? Not many. Even the ones who naturally do it, they don't know why they are true peace officers and not "law enforcement officers.


who are the good LEO's... to me personally, good LEO's are the ones who strictly follows the constitution. LEO that uses good discretion when dealing with the people he/she serves. In my 30 plus years of LEO experience (Military Police and Civilian LE) I have come across people who thinks I am bad because I have a badge. I also have come across people who thinks I am bad because they pay taxes which makes them always right. well, I pay taxes too just like everyone else. Then you have the people who automatically labels most LEO's bad just because...

Me, personally I don't get much flak in my community because I don't write parking tickets or moving violations or those stupid citations. I don't deal with that kind of LE duties. the people I deal with are the scum of the earth, however, I am still careful with what I do because I know that people can be very mean and they sometimes use me to get to people they don't like. what I mean is some people do make false accusations to get someone in trouble. I investigate sexual crimes against children.

As for the difference between a peace officer and LEO, I'm not really sure if there is a difference. I think they are the same. The difference between police chief and sheriff, one is elected and the other is appointed by the mayor.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Dogsrule said:


> I know oldmurph58 from SB and I've read here for a long time. This topic made me sign up and so I put oldmurph58 as my referrer!
> 
> ETA the reason I signed up is because this is a better forum, SB sucks.


Welcome Dog!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

mhans827 said:


> who are the good LEO's... to me personally, good LEO's are the ones who strictly follows the constitution. LEO that uses good discretion when dealing with the people he/she serves. In my 30 plus years of LEO experience (Military Police and Civilian LE) I have come across people who thinks I am bad because I have a badge. I also have come across people who thinks I am bad because they pay taxes which makes them always right. well, I pay taxes too just like everyone else. Then you have the people who automatically labels most LEO's bad just because...
> 
> Me, personally I don't get much flak in my community because I don't write parking tickets or moving violations or those stupid citations. I don't deal with that kind of LE duties. the people I deal with are the scum of the earth, however, I am still careful with what I do because I know that people can be very mean and they sometimes use me to get to people they don't like. what I mean is some people do make false accusations to get someone in trouble. I investigate sexual crimes against children.
> 
> As for the difference between a peace officer and LEO, I'm not really sure if there is a difference. I think they are the same. The difference between police chief and sheriff, one is elected and the other is appointed by the mayor.


You see, for example, writing moving violation citations, as an LE duty, correct? You do not deal with that duty because it is not your job or because you find it to be an infringement? The good LEOs are the ones who strictly follow the constitution; that means they don't make contact with the citizen without a warrant with an affixed affidavit sworn to and signed by the injured party or unless the LEO witnesses the citizen committing a felony, right?

I wasn't talking about the difference between municipal and county, but the difference between a "law enforcement officer" and a peace officer. One abides by the constitution while the other does not, mostly out of ignorance. Most all LEOs really believe they are the protectors of the constitution; even those who are caught in the videos that make us all mad.

We were all taught what we needed to know to do what we were (are, for you) expected to do. We were given tactics training and some classes on a handful of court cases while being given tips on how to work around them and then sent on our way to work with a trainer or seasoned partner after being handed our POST. None of that trained any of us to uphold our oath.

Down through the years, things should have made you curious or caused you concern. My epiphany was gun laws and the 2nd amendment. I was an MP when that little light came on. As you well know, the 2nd amendment does not pertain to properly seated federal territory as it exists for the protection of our rights and not for the enjoyment. That made me curious about the statutes on the other side of the fort, and it got me to thinking about a lot of other things. Thinking got me to reading and researching, and that researching has caused me to realize that we are all ignorant in both senses of the word. Ignorant in that we ignore what we should inherently know, and ignorant due to lack of knowledge.

Of the Troops and for the Troops, mhans827.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

Dogsrule said:


> I know oldmurph58 from SB and I've read here for a long time. This topic made me sign up and so I put oldmurph58 as my referrer!
> 
> ETA the reason I signed up is because this is a better forum, SB sucks.


 Thanks dogsrule and welcome to a good site!


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> You see, for example, writing moving violation citations, as an LE duty, correct? You do not deal with that duty because it is not your job or because you find it to be an infringement? The good LEOs are the ones who strictly follow the constitution; that means they don't make contact with the citizen without a warrant with an affixed affidavit sworn to and signed by the injured party or unless the LEO witnesses the citizen committing a felony, right?
> 
> I wasn't talking about the difference between municipal and county, but the difference between a "law enforcement officer" and a peace officer. One abides by the constitution while the other does not, mostly out of ignorance. Most all LEOs really believe they are the protectors of the constitution; even those who are caught in the videos that make us all mad.
> 
> ...


Ultimately Im a police officer, traffic duties and giving out citations is a part of my job. I am assigned as an investigator who specializes in sex crimes against kids, so my duties now don't require me to give out citations. But if you ask me would I give out citations for minor infactions, I rather not do that. I can use my descretion and not give people citations. Simply talking to people solves more things than those damn tickets. I hate receiving them and I hate giving them.

As far as not making contact with citizens without a warrant or affidavit, that is not accurate. As a detective or a police officer, I can talk to anyone I want to, as long as the person I'm trying to talk to allows it. Also, I can talk to anyone just about anything, except ask the person incriminating questions. If I am investigating a crime and I am talking to a person who have been alledged to have commited a crime, I will advise the person of his/her Miranda Rights. look up "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" that will explain a lot about LEO making stops on the streets.

About the LEO not abiding by the constitution while peace officers do, that is not accurate as well. Both are required to take an oath to abide by the constitution. Now the LEO's that we all hate, the ones who murders people and abuses their authority, they took an oath too. The problem with those kinds are they did not uphold the oath they took. Instead they opted to be criminals themselves when they abused their authority. They simply need to go to jail and be treated like a criminal.

Now for the 2A question... Yes I am aware that the federal lands pretty much don't acknowledge 2A. There are other places in the US that also don't recognize 2A and I will get back with you on that.... On the civilian side, 2A is recognized, somewhat, but not completely. In my jurisdiction guns are bad and they are tools of the criminal...(hold on dont kill me yet, more explanation to come) They wont tell you that, but that is how they treat guns in my jurisdiction. No open carry, no concealed carry unless the state give you permision, no firing range, indoor or outdoor and no gun shop allowed in my jurisdiction (I am freaking fuming right now and my damn blood pressure is up significantly while writting this). So the question is? do I have descretion to let good people go when I catch them carrying concealed weapons. the answer is no, but the good thing is.... I am happy to report that since the start of my career up to now, I have yet to catch good people carrying. I have caught a bunch of bad ones carrying guns while dealing narcotics and some of them carry to rob people. It is either good people dont carry guns in my jurisdiction or I'm a failure when it comes to catching them. Hey I never claimed to be good at everything I do, Im just a dumb cop who knows nothing but to catch pedophiles.

I hope this answers some of your questions.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

LunaticFringeInc said:


> Yeah I am a long time member of SB and have a lot of respect for Kev. But the truth is the rules aren't always equally enforced fairly across the broad. While I still occasionally lurk there and even on rarer occasions post there the fact that they are not is the reason I spend more time here where my time is better spent.


I haven't lurked at SB in ages. Maybe that's something I'll do later today. I think I could still log in if I wanted to, it's been so long since I have, that I've forgotten my password.

Anyway it's a six of one half dozen of the other when it comes to LEO's, I'm neutral on the matter.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

mhans827 said:


> Ultimately Im a police officer, traffic duties and giving out citations is a part of my job. I am assigned as an investigator who specializes in sex crimes against kids, so my duties now don't require me to give out citations. But if you ask me would I give out citations for minor infactions, I rather not do that. I can use my descretion and not give people citations. Simply talking to people solves more things than those damn tickets. I hate receiving them and I hate giving them.
> 
> As far as not making contact with citizens without a warrant or affidavit, that is not accurate. As a detective or a police officer, I can talk to anyone I want to, as long as the person I'm trying to talk to allows it. Also, I can talk to anyone just about anything, except ask the person incriminating questions. If I am investigating a crime and I am talking to a person who have been alledged to have commited a crime, I will advise the person of his/her Miranda Rights. look up "reasonable suspicion" and "probable cause" that will explain a lot about LEO making stops on the streets.
> 
> ...


You have answered my questions sufficiently.

I am correct in my assertions, by the way - depending upon jurisdiction. Do you know what I mean when I speak of jurisdiction, or do you think I am referring to local, county and state?

Why is it you feel it is in accordance with the constitution to serve a citation with thete being no injured party, no affidavit and no warrant? The statute can't be the injured party and neither can be the officer. Furthermore, doing 15 over an arbitrary number is not a felony, so what makes this OK? This is going back to that jurisdictional question.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> You have answered my questions sufficiently.
> 
> I am correct in my assertions, by the way - depending upon jurisdiction. Do you know what I mean when I speak of jurisdiction, or do you think I am referring to local, county and state?
> 
> Why is it you feel it is in accordance with the constitution to serve a citation with thete being no injured party, no affidavit and no warrant? The statute can't be the injured party and neither can be the officer. Furthermore, doing 15 over an arbitrary number is not a felony, so what makes this OK? This is going back to that jurisdictional question.


The jurisdiction I speak of are for example. I work for the city, therefore my jusrisdiction is in the city. All crimes comitted in the city I can investigate and take action. If the crimes commited in the sorrounding counties,I have no jurisdiction. They have to be investigated by the county sheriff or county police.

regarding your question about traffic citations. I dont believe the constitution has anything to do with that since driving is not a right, it is a previledge. The traffic officer just need to have probable cause or observe infractions to make a stop. Everything about traffic is covered under state traffic laws. Like I said Im not a traffic nazi, so you got me on that one. This is why I hate giving tickets.

now during car stops the officer is still have to remember that people have expectation of privacy so the 4A applies. Also, car stop has to be reasonable. A cop cannot stop you for more than 20 minutes. After 20 mins, the stop becomes detention.

The question about 15 or over an arbitrary number, I am assuming you mean going 15 mph over the posted speed limit. That is not a felony, nor a misdemeanor crime. it is traffic violation against state traffic laws. parking citations I believe fall under the jurisdiction's ordinances. Again, I dont know a whole lot about traffic. Ask me questions about sex crimes and physical child abuse, I will have an answer for you.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

oldmurph58 said:


> If you go to you tube and type police misconduct, you will get pages and pages of hits on tape, so no one can argue. police is a nice, safe job, it pays well, and comes with a pension. relax leo's, enjoy your good fortune. I for one personaly do not believe some of the b.s. and self promotion you say, not cop bashing, please dont feint./ well now its a two month ban worth 60 points whatever that means its definatly a all leo all the time site befor the slash was what i said didnt think it was so bad


My suggestion is take the 2 month break to learn how basic punctuation works in the English language.

It is good you know how to make videos, but you really should learn what a paragraph is, and where to capitalize.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

mhans827 said:


> . ...driving is not a right, it is a privilege.


Many would disagree with you...

For many years Professionals within the criminal justice System have acted upon the belief that traveling by motor vehicle upon the roadway was a privilege that was gained by a citizen only after approval by their respective state government in the form of the issuance of a permit or license to that Particular individual. Legislators, police officers and court officials are becoming aware that there are now court decisions that prove the fallacy of the legal opinion that" driving is a privilege and therefore requires government approval, i.e. a license". Some of these cases are:
Case # 1 - "Even the legislature has no power to deny to a citizen the right to travel upon the highway and transport his property in the ordinary course of his business or pleasure, though this right may be regulated in accordance with the public interest and convenience. - Chicago Motor Coach v Chicago 169 NE 22 
("Regulated" here means traffic safety enforcement, stop lights, signs, etc. NOT a privilege that requires permission i.e.- licensing, mandatory insurance, vehicle registration, etc.)

Case # 2 - "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."- Thompson v Smith 154 SE 579.

It could not be stated more conclusively that Citizens of the states have a right to travel, without approval or restriction (license), and that this right is protected under the U.S. Constitution. Here are other court decisions that expound the same facts:

Case # 3 - "The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the 5th Amendment." - Kent v Dulles, 357 U.S. 116, 125.

Case # 4 - "Undoubtedly the right of locomotion, the right to remove from one place to another according to inclination, is an attribute of personal Iiberty, and the right, ordinarily, of free transit from or through the territory of any State is a right secured by the l4th Amendment and by other provisions of the Constitution." - Schactman v Dulles, 96 App D.C. 287, 293.

FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT

As hard as it is for those of us in Law enforcement to believe, there is no room for speculation in these court decisions. The American citizen does indeed have the inalienable right to use the roadways unrestricted in any manner as long as they are not damaging or violating property or rights of another.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Many would disagree with you...
> 
> For many years Professionals within the criminal justice System have acted upon the belief that traveling by motor vehicle upon the roadway was a privilege that was gained by a citizen only after approval by their respective state government in the form of the issuance of a permit or license to that Particular individual. Legislators, police officers and court officials are becoming aware that there are now court decisions that prove the fallacy of the legal opinion that" driving is a privilege and therefore requires government approval, i.e. a license". Some of these cases are:
> Case # 1 - "Even the legislature has no power to deny to a citizen the right to travel upon the highway and transport his property in the ordinary course of his business or pleasure, though this right may be regulated in accordance with the public interest and convenience. - Chicago Motor Coach v Chicago 169 NE 22
> ...


Touche Sir!


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Many would disagree with you...
> 
> For many years Professionals within the criminal justice System have acted upon the belief that traveling by motor vehicle upon the roadway was a privilege that was gained by a citizen only after approval by their respective state government in the form of the issuance of a permit or license to that Particular individual. Legislators, police officers and court officials are becoming aware that there are now court decisions that prove the fallacy of the legal opinion that" driving is a privilege and therefore requires government approval, i.e. a license". Some of these cases are:
> Case # 1 - "Even the legislature has no power to deny to a citizen the right to travel upon the highway and transport his property in the ordinary course of his business or pleasure, though this right may be regulated in accordance with the public interest and convenience. - Chicago Motor Coach v Chicago 169 NE 22
> ...


believe me, I always thought that driving is a right, and I still think it is the right of the people to drive. when I wrote my post saying driving is a previledge, I am simply stating a fact in my jurisdiction, I did not make it up. The argument I heard is that, the constitution does not cover anything about driving a motor vehicle. Of course it wont cover that, motor vehicle did not exist when the bill of rights was written. to me it sounds like the B.S. statements I hear that 2A covers only muskets and flintlocks because there were no AR's or AK's during the time the constitution was written.

some people drive because they have to be somewhere, others drive because they simply like to drive. All of the cases you wrote regarding this issue sounds good and accurate, but because I have no patience, desire or liking to traffic duties I have not researched it. I simply think driving falls under " Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and that alone should do. Thank God I dont have to do traffic duties. If I was told today that I am restricted to only working traffic duties, I would quit.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

mhans827 said:


> The jurisdiction I speak of are for example. I work for the city, therefore my jusrisdiction is in the city. All crimes comitted in the city I can investigate and take action. If the crimes commited in the sorrounding counties,I have no jurisdiction. They have to be investigated by the county sheriff or county police.
> 
> regarding your question about traffic citations. I dont believe the constitution has anything to do with that since driving is not a right, it is a previledge. The traffic officer just need to have probable cause or observe infractions to make a stop. Everything about traffic is covered under state traffic laws. Like I said Im not a traffic nazi, so you got me on that one. This is why I hate giving tickets.
> 
> ...


Yes, you are speaking of municipal, as I already stated you would. This is what I am saying; you are trained only to do what "they" want you to do. Were you to receive real constitutional law training, you would not do what they want.

Words have meaning, by the way. You stated driving, and you are correct in that driving is a privilege. That is a commercial term, as is operating and motor vehicle.

Maine Marine already answered my question from the other side, which is traveling. Traveling is a right, and the automobile has been recognized as being the replacement for the horse.

Now, are you beginning to understand what I mean by jurisdiction? You should be getting curious, by now. If not, it is by choice.

This doesn't apply to the traveling/driving thing. Even when using the limited education offered by the public edukashun system, there are many things that should make people wonder why things are as they are.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> Yes, you are speaking of municipal, as I already stated you would. This is what I am saying; you are trained only to do what "they" want you to do. Were you to receive real constitutional law training, you would not do what they want.
> 
> Words have meaning, by the way. You stated driving, and you are correct in that driving is a privilege. That is a commercial term, as is operating and motor vehicle.
> 
> ...


Im sorry to say but I still dont get what you mean by jurisdiction... and heck yeah Im curious. in fact I want to know. If you write it, I will read it. If I dont understand it, I will ask you for clarification until I completely understand. After that I will make a decision if it is something I would practice.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

mhans827 said:


> Im sorry to say but I still dont get what you mean by jurisdiction... and heck yeah Im curious. in fact I want to know. If you write it, I will read it. If I dont understand it, I will ask you for clarification until I completely understand. After that I will make a decision if it is something I would practice.


You and I were taught jurisdiction means certain and limited things, such as what you and I have already mentioned. Rather than seeing it as jurisdiction that is regarding geography, think a little more along the lines of this contact I made with an Alabama State Trooper.

Several years ago, the State of Alabama changed the rules regarding tinting. I drove a Ford Escort station wagon, and wanted clarification on what tinting had to be taken off. While traveling along a four lane, I spotted a trooper, so I went to pull him over. Have you ever tried such a thing? They aren't trained to pull over for a citizen, so it took quite a while to get him to stop. Finally, he stopped. He told me all of the tinting, including that which was around the back part of the wagon. I yelled a bad word at him, and he responded he didn't want to hear it because he had to pay to have it removed and replaced with a lighter tint for both his and his wife's autos. :lol:

While talking with him, I pointed at a speed limit sign and asked, "If you saw me going 15 over the posted limit, would you give me a citation?"

"Yes, I would."

"Isn't that a UCC or a UTC sign?"

"Yes, it is."

"Does it appear that I am carrying people or items for commercial purposes?"

"No."

"So, I would respond with a Title 42 lawsuit, right?"

"You wouldn't sue me would you?!?"

"You wouldn't give me a ticket, would you? No, you'd _sell_ it to me!"

We laughed and went our separate ways, and I doubt he thought about the seed I tried to plant.

Two jurisdictions. We all belong under the jurisdiction of the laws of nature and nature's God, as described in the Declaration of Independence, but how is it that we find ourselves forced into jurisdictions we do not even understand? The only way to do so is through contract, but do we even understand that contracts when we enter them? I seriously doubt it.

Staying with traveling, what would happen if people understood the difference between traveling and driving. One is a right and the other is a privilege. One is a right under constitutionally protected right, and the other is a privilege under code. Two jurisdictions, all fall under one, some should fall under the other, but many unknowingly place themselves under that one, too. At the same time, all of us who have ever carried a ticket book have placed those unknowing people into that jurisdiction.

In the past, the government has always been right and the citizen has always been wrong; wrong because he didn't understand jurisdiction, contract and signature.

I say in the past because it appears to me that the government is moving into a phase where the constitution and the rights it was designed to protect are soon to be tossed aside for tyranny. That is another topic, though, and I am certain I know where you will stand on that topic. You, I believe, are a "good cop." Of the troops.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

mhans827 said:


> believe me, I always thought that driving is a right, and I still think it is the right of the people to drive. when I wrote my post saying driving is a previledge, I am simply stating a fact in my jurisdiction, I did not make it up. The argument I heard is that, the constitution does not cover anything about driving a motor vehicle. Of course it wont cover that, motor vehicle did not exist when the bill of rights was written. to me it sounds like the B.S. statements I hear that 2A covers only muskets and flintlocks because there were no AR's or AK's during the time the constitution was written.
> 
> some people drive because they have to be somewhere, others drive because they simply like to drive. All of the cases you wrote regarding this issue sounds good and accurate, but because I have no patience, desire or liking to traffic duties I have not researched it. I simply think driving falls under " Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and that alone should do. Thank God I dont have to do traffic duties. If I was told today that I am restricted to only working traffic duties, I would quit.


Okay, it's time for a little rant.

I would talk about the Right to travel, but somebody already stole my thunder. So, let's move on. It don't matter what jurisdiction you are in, the interpretations of the law as handed by administrative agencies, executive departments and finally courts are the real law. America operates on the principle of _stare decisis_ or put into simple English: *precedent law*. Maine Marine quoted a court decision:

"_The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the 5th Amendment_." - Kent v Dulles, 357 U.S. 116, 125.

If you pay attention really carefully the fact is, it don't make two hoots in hell what jurisdiction you're in, that interpretation of the law supersedes all the other law on that question. Why?

In order to understand that, you have to be able to read the lingo. The case is about the parties involved (Kent v. Dulles.) So, if you go to volume 357 of the U.S. Supreme Court Reports and start at page 116 you can see this case and learn about the issues and how it was decided. On page 125 you will find the ruling that Maine Marine makes reference to.

That decision is binding in* EVERY* jurisdiction in the United States of America. I know we live in a time when local and state jurisdictions take a crap on the Constitution, but it is up to the individual citizen to know the law and demand legal satisfaction. The local constabularies have the *power* to enforce unjust laws, but they *still lack the authority*. To anyone working with anything to do with the law, it is imperative that they understand that point.

To my chagrin I have, many times, cited the highest authorities on a given legal topic only to be shouted down by ignorant people with a political agenda... the same way that cops and local / state officials do towards the citizen. It's all power for the course. We bitch at the cops because they do it to citizens, yet citizens do the same thing to each other in the quest to bend the law to their favor.

You have an opportunity to rise above the ignorance and dishonesty and get your head screwed on right.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

OK. I see the notion of jurisdiction is still pretty tough.

Let's try it another way. Is someone is is traveling by way of his automobile rather than operating a motor vehicle subject to U.C.C.?

Is someone dwelling in the Sierra Highlands under maritime jurisdiction?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Let's try it another way. Is someone is is traveling by way of his automobile rather than operating a motor vehicle subject to U.C.C.?


Using and manipulating the UCC is how the govt got it's fingers into each and every pie.


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## Draq wraith (Oct 25, 2015)

I like this form and I like theirs too. But to be honest I have met good cops and I have met bad cops. But one thing I cannot abide by is your always looking at the cop as a bad guy when its the few. This erodes moral of those who serve with honor and distinction. 
Am I on all cops side no I also have witnessed corruption of various cops first hand. Allowing two sons to be peodophiles, murderers, and drug dealers. Gunning down drunk unarmed students. Gunning down students looking into businesses that are closed. 
I have also seen police handling just about every day drunks fighting and armed robbers shooting, as well as gang bangers. 
The cops can be and are mostly good guys doing a rotten in rewarding job.
When you have a president freeing criminals to go back on the streets that they booked legitimately is that going to give you any sort of moral boost?
I don't think so. That is just the government telling them all we think of you and want to use you for is a cash register (to write tickets).
So how would you feel acting on bad information? 
Wrongly entered calls.
And gunning down innocents?
Wear their shoes, badge, and gun a while and try to be humane to people see the cops side of the problem for a while good or bad.

It's an every day struggle to get home alive and still be human.
I'm a centrist on this issue. And yes a SB member too.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Is this elusive SB forum under discussion..an off shoot of the NAA mini gun forum by any chance? Know that one morphed into some type of general prepper format and turned totally political correctness. I am still banned over there and I love cops. They got mad at me for accusing most of them of being old ex-convict outlaw bikers. Might be two different places. Who knows?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Is this elusive SB forum under discussion..an off shoot of the NAA mini gun forum by any chance? Know that one morphed into some type of general prepper format and turned totally political correctness. I am still banned over there and I love cops. They got mad at me for accusing most of them of being old ex-convict outlaw bikers. Might be two different places. Who knows?


Ummm Bigwheel.... Man sorry to be the one, but your a little confused or ...well something. This is the site, not the other.......... most of us here are ex-convict outlaw bikers.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Ok..well the place I was speaking of Salt n Pepper was a regular. Maybe he knows about that. They must have kicked him off too.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Here are the last two encounters I had with law enforcement.

One police officer advised me I could sue my neighbor for his 10 dogs that bark all night, or I could buy a bottle of anti freeze and a pack of hot dogs. 

The other came out to hear a complaint of a reckless driver near my residence on a daily basis. The driver does 50-60 in a 20mph zone. While the officer was sitting in my drive, plain as day the offender drove past at 40-50 and when I pointed it out, he shrugged his shoulders as if to indicate " so what ". 
At that time I dismissed him and advised that he was just as much part of the problem as that driver. I then contacted my local political representative for action. Action was taken.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I have to different on this.
In most places a good welder can make more than a LEO. Labors on our crews make more and generally have better benefits. Some places more prior education is needed to get hired others none.
Until the Obama era I would agree over all LE was not as dangerous as it was played up to be. Post Obama is has become very dangerous. 
Police miss conduct is not much different than teachers and any one else, bad people everywhere . Life has taught me most claims against LEO are BS. LEO deal with the worst of us more often than anyone else and are always second guessed by others that have an agenda.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

Amen to that. Accountability starts with the individual.



Smitty901 said:


> But reporting fact is not bashing. There is a difference.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

The problem in Rhode Island is that the local political representatives are worse.


Operator6 said:


> Here are the last two encounters I had with law enforcement.
> 
> One police officer advised me I could sue my neighbor for his 10 dogs that bark all night, or I could buy a bottle of anti freeze and a pack of hot dogs.
> 
> ...


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

If I have to pay for them (the police) then I feel I have the right to complain about the service I receive. Sure, they have a tough job but so do many people, you can't allow that to be an excuse for a man not doing his job.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Mosinator762x54r said:


> The problem in Rhode Island is that the local political representatives are worse.


We have had MANY politicians end up behind bars in south Alabama. If they stay in office long enough it's almost a sure thing they will either go to jail or at least go on trial.


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