# Bug in? Bug out?



## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

When the Big One hits should you stay home or retreat?

Should you Bug In or Bug Out?

This is a very personal question and your answer will dependon your personal situation, but let me give you some insight from my perspective.

It's my personal belief that if at all possible you should Bug In.

That means you should have enough supplies in your current home to survive a disaster event for however long you need to. Normally this is 14-30 days, dependent on the disaster of course.

I feel it's smarter to stay where you are in most cases, if you're prepared to do that. By Bugging In you'll have the comforts of your home with you at all times. Your family will feel safer because of this, which makes everything easier.

Now, there are a lot of "experts" out there who would argue with me and say,

"Always Bug Out!"

They often recommend that you run away from civilization as quick as possible during a disaster, but I have a serious issue with that.

Think about it, what will happen when a real-world disaster strikes, whether it be natural or man-made.

The fact is, when a disaster strikes there will be thousands, if not tens of thousands of people all trying to leave the city at the exact same time.

Do you know what happens when 10, 20, 50 or 100 thousand vehicles get on the road at the exact same time trying to exit a city?

The most massive gridlock you've ever seen is exactly what happens.

People are left stuck in their cars for hours and hours, if not multiple days.

Tens of thousands of people, maybe more, stuck on the highway, away from their home, away form their supplies; hungry, thirsty and without access to anything.

That, my friend, is where you'll see the true disaster take place.

Looting, rape, murder - all of these are possibilities when you have a massive amount of people stuck in one place with no access to any measure of safety or supplies.

There are a few other massive problems with Bugging Out, but this issue alone should show you why it's probably not the best idea if you don't absolutely have to.

Another fallacy that’s spread by many of these “experts” is that you’ll be able to live off the land in a state of serene safety when you Bug Out; like Robin Hood, shooting your bow and arrow and roasting your kill over an open fire.

In reality, most people spend 80% of their lives within 2 miles of their home and have no clue how to survive in the wilderness and would die faster in the wilderness than they would in a war zone – it’s a simple fact.

These are just two of the many reasons I am such a strong proponent of Bugging In.

Yes, sometimes it will not be an option, but 90% of the time Bugging In is the best way to keep your family safe during a disaster.

And all you have to do is make sure you've taken the appropriate actions to prepare your home.

Take action today to secure the safety of your family tomorrow.

Always Safe, Always Prepared

Frank Mitchell
Founder


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

I live on a farm.. no place else to go. I may create a last chance location but hat wouldn't be til after the fan starts sprayin!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm ready/plan to bug in, but prepared to bug out.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

"When the big one hits." Yeah. That could mean a 'hard' SHTF, like an EMP or epidemic. Or it could mean a 'soft' SHTF, like the slow descent into hell a currency failure would cause. 

A soft SHTF would probably mean most people stay home, cope with the situation as it slowly develops, and hope for improvement. Argentina, or the Soviet Union's fall in other words.

A hard SHTF would cause more bug outs. Homes burned down, no food in the cities with accompanying giant riots or war, that kind of thing. Syria.

I see the soft version as the most likely. Unless it isn't.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

My plan is as always to bug in.

Moving out on to a road in a crisis is asking for trouble.

As UC says, people will turn into wild animals trying to escape from the cities.

I live in a rural area and have everything needed to survive for a very long time.

I do have an alternate bug out plan if all else fails, most likely would be dead before I could use it.


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

Agree on the gridlock. Here's a picture of what Houston traffic looked like during the evacuation for Hurricane Rita....









That being said, you specifically limited your Bug-In criteria to "disasters". Bugging in for weather disasters is one thing, but I think there are other scenarios that would either warrant, or REQUIRE bugging OUT. These include Volcanos, Earthquakes, Nuclear radiation, civil order breakdown, invasion, bioterror, and others.

The point is that I think you need to be prepared to be able to bug IN or OUT depending on the situation. We plan to Bug-In if at all possible, but have prepped to be ready to Bug-Out safely if it were to become necessary. That means hidden caches of food, weapons, and other gear, as well as a defined destination, backups, and multiple alternatives for getting there if necessary.

It certainly is NOT a game, and my family and I take this extremely seriously. We are already handicapped often by separation, and have a number of plans on how to get back together if it comes to that.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

As I've said before anybody who thinks they are going to survive in a national forest with 10,000 intelligent people who also ran off to the same woods will learn quickly that there isn't much food in the woods. Those who race out to squat in farm country will learn that while the farmers will feel bad for you they will defend the resources their families need and the farmers will have a distinct home field advantage along with intimate knowledge of their rifles because farmers have to shoot pests all the time..


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I plan on staying right where I'm at. I know for a fact that no matter where I would plan on bugging out to it's already someones back yard. There is no secret spot to survive that numerous others haven't already thought of. Once I'm out of my familiar area, more like 10-15 miles for me. I'm an easy target. 

Sure I realize that I could be forced out. But being my survival chances will quickly diminish why not fight to the end. What difference if I'm dead at home or on the road.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Better dying at home defending what is yours than on some muddy road in the middle of nowhere.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

It's one thing to become a refugee through no fault of your own, it's quite another to become one on purpose...
Take a good look at what is going on in Europe with the refugees. Should give you a rough idea of what to expect.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

FoolAmI said:


> As I've said before anybody who thinks they are going to survive in a national forest with 10,000 intelligent people who also ran off to the same woods will learn quickly that there isn't much food in the woods. Those who race out to squat in farm country will learn that while the farmers will feel bad for you they will defend the resources their families need and the farmers will have a distinct home field advantage along with intimate knowledge of their rifles because farmers have to shoot pests all the time..


and alot of those "experts", advocating the absolute need to bug out, are more Rambo than Jeremiah Johnson ....


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> I live on a farm.. no place else to go. I may create a last chance location but hat wouldn't be til after the fan starts sprayin!


I'd definitely be thinking about creating some caches and cache spots around the property now - split up the booty - going to be raider sized groups hitting and moving on to the next .... good chance you'll get some warning of their approach but not enough time to start moving supplies - leave yourself some seed ....


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

There is no correct answer to your question everyone’s situation is different.

IMO unless you have some place to go that is as fully equipped and stocked as your home then you should bug-in. 

Take my advice from someone that has spent time in the wilderness with minimal equipment and support it’s very hard to survive or live.

It would take someone like Negan to get me to leave my home. :stick:


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I am prepared to bug in as a first choice and if at all feasable. Hunker down unless my situation becomes untenable. I have preparations and plans to bug out if it becomes necessary.


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## PCH5150 (Jun 15, 2015)

Bug in, if at all possible. Think of all the raw materials you have in your home that you don't even consider that could be used. You can take interior doors off of hinges to board up windows, you can cut up bed sheets to use as bandages, or even a make shift shirt. That garden hoe could be a hand to hand weapon of last resort. You would lose all of that by leaving your home. Even if you have a well stocked bug out location (cabin etc.) chances are it doesn't have all the "stuff" that accumulates over years and years of daily living. 

But this is still hard to answer. A massive fire or flood could change all that real quick.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I agree with bugging in in general. We've seen the roads during Hurricane Rita. I have only 1 major expressway and two other roads out of my area. I believe that most SHTF events will come with little or no warning and the roads would fill quickly and come to a standstill. If the water is lapping at my back door, I'll have to bug out (I'm at 2600 feet). There is no way I could transport my supplies if I had to bug. Obviously I am prepared to bug out if necessary, but... Everyone must analyze their situation in the hundreds of possible SHTF scenarios and make up their minds before hand.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I have invested in a property with a water source, fruit and nut trees. I could barter a few chickens and live stock from neighbors. Nice size garden. Bugging out and taking supplies? Too difficult and limited. Only a last resort if I am over run or such. Illini warrior is correct about caching supplies if SHTF.


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## PrepperFF712 (Nov 12, 2015)

This is all relative to what we are preparing for. Some are preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse, others for the loss of primary income. 

I'm prepping for natural disaster, civil unrest, economic collapse and personal financial troubles. In all cases, other than my home being destroyed I'll be bugging in. My views of the economy are different being Canadian. Our PM is planning on running deficits for the next 4 years, however there will be significant advantages for the middle class. I plan to exploit those financial advantages and use them best I can to prepare for when we gotta pay all that money back.... 

I have 3 BOLs, all of which involve family. One is 3 hours away and the others no more than 30 minutes. If bugging out is the only option due to fire/natural disaster, I shan't have a problem getting there. My entire county is less than 150,000 people, and from North to South its 2 hours of driving. The largest "city" is only 50K people. Very rural/farming where I live. Not worried about gridlock here.  I can walk from any major center to my home in 4 hours. 

Right now we are at a month's worth of supplies, just enough to make it through anything we perceive may happen around here.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

Set up a good defensive perimeter...


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Since we do not have a stocked place to go, we will be staying put.
We will not become refugees.
Have stuff here, will do the best we can.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Unless your home is threatened by imminent destruction or made inhabitable via toxins or radiation then I'm a firm believer in staying put as long as you can. I don't buy into this running for the woods with every other person who has an ar-15 and a backpack. If I had too I would but I would much prefer to stay in my home or in the home of family, monitor the situation, and if we had to leave then formulate the best exit plan we could given the situation.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

much of it depends on how surrounded by civilization a person is. If bugging in in suburbia, are there enough people to be on guard 24-7? If you get into a battle, what is stopping the attackers from just tossing a few molotov cocktails at the entrances and having a turkey shoot? A gopher is safe in it's hole, until the hunter knows where the hole is.....


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> much of it depends on how surrounded by civilization a person is. If bugging in in suburbia, are there enough people to be on guard 24-7? If you get into a battle, what is stopping the attackers from just tossing a few molotov cocktails at the entrances and having a turkey shoot? A gopher is safe in it's hole, until the hunter knows where the hole is.....


Even as fractured and anti social as we are today I forsee neighborhoods coming together in times of crisis. I could see neighborhood watches getting pretty serious.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

But.... if you don't have a place to go, may as well stay put! I tell my Brother (who is planning on bugging out here) either be ahead of the curve and leave first, or wait til it breaks and walk here in the dark! I believe in most SHTF situations a well educated prepper may be ahead of the Dumb-masses by 1-3 days. Best to be where you need to be by then!


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> Even as fractured and anti social as we are today I forsee neighborhoods coming together in times of crisis. I could see neighborhood watches getting pretty serious.


that's all well and good.. until you find out you live in a "gun-free" neighborhood... and if they haven't prepped and the water shuts off, that dog ain't gonna hunt!


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> that's all well and good.. until you find out you live in a "gun-free" neighborhood... and if they haven't prepped and the water shuts off, that dog ain't gonna hunt!


That's why it is important to get out and try to meet your neighbors, get to know them, and if they aren't gun people or prepared find a way to subtly get them that way. It might even be a good reason to go out and buy a few extra hi points//mosins in case you need to arm up a posse at the appropriate time.

Well maybe not mosins as their price has gone up considerably, but you get the point. Just because your neighbors aren't gun people doesn't mean they couldn't be helpful. If the water gets turned off all the sudden those with inground pools have a good resource, some people love to can food, others might be veterans/nurses/doctors/welders/machinists/electricians, basically skills that would be essential to survival.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

Unless you are bugging out from a localized event then best to stay home.

The problem with bugging out if it is a nationwide issue besides where would you go to is this...
If you can't make it work on home turf where you live how will you make it work anywhere else.

What you have now is the best you got, and you have to do hazard/risk mitigation, and the community
has to prop itself up in a fashion, otherwise you can't begin recovery.

The romantic notion some people have of this being an opportunity to start everything new, better and
escape all their past mistakes is not what they will find with SHTF. Instead current flaws and issues will
likely compound or become even more extreme when the little things count.

With much fewer resources all the errors you have in your day to day will come to light real fast when faced with problems.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> That's why it is important to get out and try to meet your neighbors, get to know them, and if they aren't gun people or prepared find a way to subtly get them that way. It might even be a good reason to go out and buy a few extra hi points//mosins in case you need to arm up a posse at the appropriate time.
> 
> Well maybe not mosins as their price has gone up considerably, but you get the point. Just because your neighbors aren't gun people doesn't mean they couldn't be helpful. If the water gets turned off all the sudden those with inground pools have a good resource, some people love to can food, others might be veterans/nurses/doctors/welders/machinists/electricians, basically skills that would be essential to survival.


luckily I know every neighbor in every direction for 15 miles.... and if they don't have guns, I will be happy to trade them some for Livestock and other barter items!.. but, them not having a gun on a farm is highly unlikely..


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

food won't be the problem in farming communities. the problem will be invaders. Farm-farm communication is going to be a high priority.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I will head to the farm. It is situated whre there is zero road frontage. It is 1000 yards from any roadway. Now I just need very tall fences. Ours are pretty crappy.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> food won't be the problem in farming communities. the problem will be invaders. Farm-farm communication is going to be a high priority.


I wouldn't just assume that .... as much as farming has become big biz and specialized the average farmer isn't living as self sufficient as the previous generations .... the big grain ops aren't dealing with livestock anymore or even running silo storage sometimes .... unless it's an older inherited farm place there's not even a garden or orchard ..... beef/pig half is bought for the freezer and the new generation tossed grandma's canning jars ....

if the farmers aren't self sufficient any local community wouldn't be any better off .... what local goods that are available are trucked in and most of the small biz are closed due to the Wally World and Home Depot at the crossroads ....


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> luckily I know every neighbor in every direction for 15 miles.... and if they don't have guns, I will be happy to trade them some for Livestock and other barter items!.. but, them not having a gun on a farm is highly unlikely..


I don't think guns will be as big a problem in some areas compared to the ammo problem .... lots of shotguns but not that much decent defensive loads or that many shells period .... same same with rifles/handguns - ammo supply for handling the 2 and 4 legged varmits or that occasional hunt but no huge stockpile ....

if you're going to be expecting some neighbor backup you just might need to break into your ammo supply to guarantee results ....


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

well if the farmer is growing food like wheat or soy beans what are you going to do with that? 
you going to go out and try and harvest the wheat then if you get away d-husk it ,and grind it into flour too.
nope didn't think so and those corn fields everyone would have descended on those like fkly's on skit. most of the poultry farmer people will probably love to trade you for something just to get ride of some chickens. lots of chickens = lots of feed needed or it is going to get real foul real fast.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Illini Warrior said:


> I wouldn't just assume that .... as much as farming has become big biz and specialized the average farmer isn't living as self sufficient as the previous generations .... the big grain ops aren't dealing with livestock anymore or even running silo storage sometimes .... unless it's an older inherited farm place there's not even a garden or orchard ..... beef/pig half is bought for the freezer and the new generation tossed grandma's canning jars ....
> 
> if the farmers aren't self sufficient any local community wouldn't be any better off .... what local goods that are available are trucked in and most of the small biz are closed due to the Wally World and Home Depot at the crossroads ....


we farm 2500 acres.. and are a smaller operation than some of the neighbors.. my point was each has 8-12 bins full of food.. we won't starve if we can protect it.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Medic33 said:


> well if the farmer is growing food like wheat or soy beans what are you going to do with that?
> you going to go out and try and harvest the wheat then if you get away d-husk it ,and grind it into flour too.
> nope didn't think so and those corn fields everyone would have descended on those like fkly's on skit. most of the poultry farmer people will probably love to trade you for something just to get ride of some chickens. lots of chickens = lots of feed needed or it is going to get real foul real fast.


That's what the local Threshing Bee group is for... have 2 dozen steam tractors and farm equipment. they put on a demonstration every year harvesting with old time equipment.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Illini Warrior said:


> I don't think guns will be as big a problem in some areas compared to the ammo problem .... lots of shotguns but not that much decent defensive loads or that many shells period .... same same with rifles/handguns - ammo supply for handling the 2 and 4 legged varmits or that occasional hunt but no huge stockpile ....
> 
> if you're going to be expecting some neighbor backup you just might need to break into your ammo supply to guarantee results ....


got that covered... helps when most of them hunt. always coyotes, foxes, skunks around that need dispatching... that's farm life!


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> well if the farmer is growing food like wheat or soy beans what are you going to do with that?
> you going to go out and try and harvest the wheat then if you get away d-husk it ,and grind it into flour too.
> nope didn't think so and those corn fields everyone would have descended on those like fkly's on skit. most of the poultry farmer people will probably love to trade you for something just to get ride of some chickens. lots of chickens = lots of feed needed or it is going to get real foul real fast.


actually - for the cost per pound of both dent corn and soybeans you should have a few 55 gallon barrels stored .... grind it like wheat


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> we farm 2500 acres.. and are a smaller operation than some of the neighbors.. my point was each has 8-12 bins full of food.. we won't starve if we can protect it.


it'll be protected - most likely confiscated down thru the channels from the Feds .... it's one of the country's resources that they'll be after .... somebody will be out to inventory your operation and make decisions on how to manage your farm from that point forward ....


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Illini Warrior said:


> it'll be protected - most likely confiscated down thru the channels from the Feds .... it's one of the country's resources that they'll be after .... somebody will be out to inventory your operation and make decisions on how to manage your farm from that point forward ....


Guaranteed. The Executive Orders are already in place.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Even bugging in, I wouldn't expect to be left alone for too long. At some point I'd expect to hear the phrase, We are from the Government and we are here to help...ourselves to your stuff.


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## chocks141 (Nov 21, 2015)

there are some upsides to bugging in that I never thought about until I started hanging out here.
How many times do you hear stories where people make their monthly trip to their BOL and find rats have gotten into their food stores or someone has vandalized and stole stuff.
My preps for bugging in are right here, I am in and out of my foods stores and ammo supply 2 or 3 times a week. Sorting, rearranging or inventorying.
I guess what I'm saying is my preps are right here and I know they are in good shape.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

I'm all for bugging in as well. For the first part there's really only one location I'd consider bugging out to, it's not a bad idea for my situation, but I'd rather not have to if I don't need to. Second, I know my area, what I have on hand, and where to go looking for other things I might need. However everything is always dependent on the situation. If I need to yes I'll leave, but only do so with extreme caution.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

I will bug in ,, only tell it gets to much for me to handle ,, then I will head west to the woods ,, I have about 90% of what I need at this time to make the move.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

I have plans for both options. I would simply look at the situation and then decide.


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## oldgrouch (Jul 11, 2014)

We will be bugging in, thank you. We're on 13 wooded acres (one clear for garden) with a national forest on our property line. New 5 bedroom/four bath house, well, back up genny, guns , food, ammo etc. up the wazoo. Chickens, ford 8n, '73 jeep, ------ working on preps all the time. Wood stove, kero heaters and cook tops for emergency. If the SHTF will set out appropriate toe poppers and similar welcoming gifts for city migrants seeking the country life. Perhaps I've said too much, but I'm wanting to point out that there is no reason in H-ll why I would bug OUT.


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## FincaCazador (Sep 23, 2015)

I saw the writing on the wall several years ago, so I went to work to put something together offshore. I feel it's highly unlikely that a full blown collapse will happen all at once, but it only takes an "incident" to mobilize the military here and put martial law into effect. Heck the police are practically outfitted like the military already. I am also prepared here in the states to bug in, and to bug out locally if I miss the opportunity to bug out to my offshore retreat. I think it would be a mistake to think an untrained person, who is not heavily practiced in the art of survival, and those skills tested in a real world scenario and sharpened, could survive in the wild especially if there are thousands of others trying to do the same.

If it did happen at once, I doubt the official response would be enough or in time to protect all from the aftermath, so establishing a community of like minded would be a good idea.

My offshore bugout location is remote, but close enough to "stuff" to live a normal life while waiting for the scenario I built it for. I can only hope I am able to keep my eyes and ears open, and I have the courage and decision making capacity to get there before I can't anymore.

And, if it doesn't happen in my lifetime, nothing lost. I just use it for a vacation spot and give it to my kids before I go.

For the less than 90K I have invested there, the peace of mind is priceless.


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## Jp4GA (Jan 21, 2016)

Camel923 said:


> I have invested in a property with a water source, fruit and nut trees. I could barter a few chickens and live stock from neighbors. Nice size garden. Bugging out and taking supplies? Too difficult and limited. Only a last resort if I am over run or such. Illini warrior is correct about caching supplies if SHTF.


We are currently looking for the same type of property. Hard to find in our area, but we will keep seeking.


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## Jp4GA (Jan 21, 2016)

We plan to bug in, but do have a bug out plan A & B should it become necessary. Staying put would be best because of our food and supply stores, face it you can only carry so much. Currently looking for a new place to call home that will make staying put a little easier.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Jp4GA said:


> We plan to bug in, but do have a bug out plan A & B should it become necessary. Staying put would be best because of our food and supply stores, face it you can only carry so much. Currently looking for a new place to call home that will make staying put a little easier.


I fully agree. Unless you have a fully stocked 2nd location to bug out to it is foolish to leave where the bulk of your preps are. Keep in mind that if things get so bad you consider bugging out travel will be very dangerous and you can only take so much with you,,, and the more you take the slower you will travel and the more attractive of a target you will make for looters.

For those in a city who fully plan to bug out I would consider a small storage unit (or a trusted friend's home) outside the city in the direction you may plan on traveling to. If you have a vehicle which you believe can get you out of the city with the roads jammed solid that vehicle will become a very desirable target and you'd still be leaving a lot of your preps behind.

Best to sit tight and be the grey man


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