# Items heavily traded during the collapse of Soviet Union



## TG

I posted this in another thread but I think this should have a separate thread.

I find it pretty crazy that people are spending money on precious metals in case of collapse.. My family (myself included, I was 13 years-old) lived through the collapse of Soviet Union, I remember all the women trying to trade their gold and silver jewellery with precious stones of all kinds and NO ONE wanted them.. 

The hottest items to trade were vodka (separate into small bottles), first aid supplies of all kinds, canned fish of all kinds (worth more than gold at the time), lose tobacco, tobacco seeds, rolling papers, store-bought cigarettes, rice (any other grains) separated in small 100gr bags, warm clothing (gloves especially are a great trading item), socks, soap was worth as much as gold, toilet paper, grain mill…etc

One day, all the stores, hospitals, pharmacies, bakeries, factories..etc simply didn't open, all were owned by the government and when workers showed up for work, they were not allowed in or the doors were simply chain-locked. I'm sure it didn't all close in one day but I was 13 and suddenly everything changed and facing a whole city in a panic. People were scrambling to trade anything and everything for food and other basics, no one was trading in precious metals or gems unless you were trying to get to the nearest stable country and buy a plane ticket to another stable country. Another thing, suddenly our passports were invalid and all money suddenly had no value.
My point is, if you're going to collect items to trade, collect basics, they will be worth more than all the gold and silver in the world.


----------



## Smitty901

Soviet weapons and ammo went cheap also they raided military supplies.
Gold ,silver ect is recovery stuff for much latter on. Most likely if you tried to trade Gold or silver they would just take it from you.
We will be making plenty of soap Great post.


----------



## Camel923

Thanks for the great info. I think the best and most informative information comes from those who have been there, done that. Breaking up supplies into small amounts sounds like a must type of strategy. Did your family home make anything TorontoGal or did you just wheel and deal? What did you do at that age to help out? What did your family do for heat, water?


----------



## TG

I remember hospitals and pharmacies being raided, medicines were traded for canned fish, it was insane.


----------



## Smitty901

TorontoGal said:


> I remember hospitals and pharmacies being raided, medicines were traded for canned fish, it was insane.


 I have spent time in countries where S has hit the fan. It goes nothing like the movies or how many think it will.


----------



## jimb1972

It depends entirely on what type of shit it is that hits the fan. If it is a devaluation of the dollar, but there is still food and other supplies available precious metals might be a great prep. Just because it happened one way in the past does not mean all future meltdowns will follow the same pattern. I do think that during a SHTF type of situation might be the best time to trade for metals if you have a surplus of other items. I have a lot of Vodka I don't drink, other than what I need for medicinal purposes I would trade for metals if my other needs were already met.


----------



## TG

Camel923 said:


> Thanks for the great info. I think the best and most informative information comes from those who have been there, done that. Breaking up supplies into small amounts sounds like a must type of strategy. Did your family home make anything TorontoGal or did you just wheel and deal? What did you do at that age to help out? What did your family do for heat, water?


Many tiny homes (we were lucky not to live in a high-rise) had wood ovens, so my job was constant gathering and fishing (we lived on the coast of Black Sea) with all the other kids, often we were fed by community organizations that sprang-up after the collapse and organized themselves in local schools, schools were open within 2-3 months but no much teaching was going on. My great-grandfather always made ridiculous amounts of Horilka (Ukrainian alcohol stronger than vodka), my mom made soap using dog fat (stray dogs, we didn't eat them though as far as I know) everyone was doing something. We had some civilized moments when the TV broadcast went back on and our government changed what felt like 10 times, no one knew what was going on.


----------



## Kauboy

Thank you for this first hand account.
Most of us have never experienced such an event. Trying to pry the wisdom of those who have from them isn't always easy. You are a great contribution to this community for offering up such wonderful information.


----------



## Hemi45

Beans & bullets ... in the worst of times a can of each would be worth a stack of gold - no doubt about it!


----------



## Jeep

I for one am not purchasing gold or silver, I can't eat it or shoot it


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Smitty901 said:


> Soviet weapons and ammo went cheap also they raided military supplies.
> Gold ,silver ect is recovery stuff for much latter on. Most likely if you tried to trade Gold or silver they would just take it from you.
> We will be making plenty of soap Great post.


I was thinking the same thing. But if you trade off small amounts of food stuffs, won't they realize you have a larger stash somewhere? In any event, you have to be able to defend your stores. And Thank you to Toronto Gal, Your post carries a lot of weight when it comes to real life prepping.


----------



## Camel923

Another question TorontoGal....what did the locals due for medical needs beyond first aid type things? Barter?


----------



## Smitty901

Jeep said:


> I for one am not purchasing gold or silver, I can't eat it or shoot it


 I have said many times I will plan for a future where things just keep going along ups and downs, That requires investing and planning for old age. I also have a very good back up plan if it falls a part Natural disaster ,social unrest, more Obama ect.
Investing in gold or silver does not fit into the back up plan


----------



## SAR-1L

Smitty901 said:


> I have spent time in countries where S has hit the fan. It goes nothing like the movies or how many think it will.


Smitty you hit the nail on the head. I have read some "prepper" books, people speculating the future.
But if you really want to know the future study the past as history always repeats itself!

Study, WWI & 2, Civil War, Katrina, want to know the enemy? Study ISIL, and Drug Cartels and how
they operate. Hell even study the Nazi's, and their rise and demise.

People who go after the facts, will always do better than those who guess guided by bullshit.

As far as trade, people will always buy vice. Booze, Sex, Drugs, and Cigs...

I personally store a few fresh cartons of Marlboro's, and I DON'T smoke.
But I know people would trade me what I need when those cravings hit.


----------



## TG

Camel923 said:


> Another question TorontoGal....what did the locals due for medical needs beyond first aid type things? Barter?


There were still doctors but unfortunately no medicines, they did what they could and we paid with whatever.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

OMG, what a life to live under those conditions! Let us all pray we don't see more of that stuff! We prepare, yet we dread!


----------



## tango

Thanks Gal, that is good info.
Folks think they are prepared, but, no one knows how things will go.
Canned fish, who knew---


----------



## TG

tango said:


> Thanks Gal, that is good info.
> Folks think they are prepared, but, no one knows how things will go.
> Canned fish, who knew---


You're welcome, I'm sure your canned beans will be worth just as much


----------



## just mike

Read the story of the guy in Bosnia on here. He figured out a way to refill lighters and that made a huge difference in his situation. Bic lighters have been added to MY list of trade items.

Gold-NO Silver-NO Lead- YES it's easy to make your own boolits. Friend of mine has about 1k pounds stored back. I have some but not like that. Mountain House, Wise etc. are not for my consumption (I have other alternatives) they are trade goods.

Whiskey (a family tradition) is easy to make and should be an easy trade.

Few people in this day and age have the necessary abilities and/or mindset to survive without the government providing everything, but since I found this website I have more hope . A lot of very good and smart people post here and I am glad I found you.


----------



## tango

Yea, but I am adding fish too--


----------



## TG

tango said:


> Yea, but I am adding fish too--


Good call, I have a few varieties.. canned beans is a high-energy necessity but canned fish is like a high luxury item, huge value.


----------



## 1895gunner

Great thread Tgal. Really hard to appreciate if you haven't lived through it - and I haven't so your perspective adds real value to the post and this forum. Makes a person think about how good life has been when comparing to those real world situations some have had to live through. I'm sure you have done things to insulate yourself from recurrence as an adult. Would love to hear more about that.

1895gunner


----------



## AquaHull

Jeep said:


> I for one am not purchasing gold or silver, I can't eat it or shoot it


Or blank it.


----------



## Derma-Redi

Once again, great advise!!!


----------



## pheniox17

TorontoGal said:


> I posted this in another thread but I think this should have a separate thread.
> 
> I find it pretty crazy that people are spending money on precious metals in case of collapse.. My family (myself included, I was 13 years-old) lived through the collapse of Soviet Union, I remember all the women trying to trade their gold and silver jewellery with precious stones of all kinds and NO ONE wanted them..
> 
> The hottest items to trade were vodka (separate into small bottles), first aid supplies of all kinds, canned fish of all kinds (worth more than gold at the time), lose tobacco, tobacco seeds, rolling papers, store-bought cigarettes, rice (any other grains) separated in small 100gr bags, warm clothing (gloves especially are a great trading item), socks, soap was worth as much as gold, toilet paper, grain mill&#8230;etc
> 
> One day, all the stores, hospitals, pharmacies, bakeries, factories..etc simply didn't open, all were owned by the government and when workers showed up for work, they were not allowed in or the doors were simply chain-locked. I'm sure it didn't all close in one day but I was 13 and suddenly everything changed and facing a whole city in a panic. People were scrambling to trade anything and everything for food and other basics, no one was trading in precious metals or gems unless you were trying to get to the nearest stable country and buy a plane ticket to another stable country. Another thing, suddenly our passports were invalid and all money suddenly had no value.
> My point is, if you're going to collect items to trade, collect basics, they will be worth more than all the gold and silver in the world.


thank you!!!!!!


----------



## cdell

Great info. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## sparkyprep

An EXCELLENT thread. Thank you, TorontoGal. First hand accounts are the best teachers we could have. I have a whole new level of respect for you.


----------



## TG

Thanks guys. Forgot to add, there wasn't as much violence as you'd think, neighbours looked out for each-other, almost no break-ins and thefts either, at least where we were. We didn't own guns. 
Stores reopened after a few weeks but they were completely empty of food and basics, pharmacies and hospitals opened too but there were no drugs. I remember many people tried going back to work even though no one was paying them, everyone seemed like they were in a fog. I remember walking into food stores and all the shelves were empty, seeing crowds of people waiting inside stores just in case there would be a shipment.


----------



## Camel923

Say TorontoGal do you have any recipes for your Grandfather's home made hootch? Of soap from dog fat? Thanks.


----------



## TG

Please don't kill dogs, I think that raccoons' fat is just as good. I don't have any written recipes but I'll ask my mom for soap recipe after she comes back on Labour day


----------



## TG

Horilka (translated: burns or burning) was the kind of drink that gave men visions (as they describe), it's a Kozak drink that is often made with home-grown hot peppers, Kozaks would drink it before and after battles, no wonder everyone was afraid of them and their curved swords haha... I remember smelling this poison all over the house and covering both, my nose and eyes.. When I turned 16, one of my relatives insisted I try it, I still remember the pain in my throat and screaming AAAAAA!!! and running around looking for water.


----------



## Camel923

That does explain a bit of eastern European history.


----------



## Slippy

Very good info TG my friend. Thank you. 
You've reinforced things that we have discussed in the Slippy household.


----------



## TG

Camel923 said:


> That does explain a bit of eastern European history.


Yes, it might I guess haha

BTW, your avatar photo is messing me up, is that a Russian winter military hat?


----------



## Camel923

TorontoGal said:


> Please don't kill dogs, I think that raccoons' fat is just as good. I don't have any written recipes but I'll ask my mom for soap recipe after she comes back on Labour day


Lots of Racoons around here. Big fat ones. Mean as all get out. Opossums are easier to catch. Things would have to be pretty desperate for me to start knocking off dogs. Don't worry.


----------



## Camel923

TorontoGal said:


> Yes, it might I guess haha
> 
> BTW, your avatar photo is messing me up, is that a Russian winter military hat?


Yes it does appear to be so. At least I think it is. I have a thing for AKs. Found that photo surfing the net.


----------



## dsdmmat

Jeep said:


> I for one am not purchasing gold or silver, I can't eat it or shoot it


Gold and silver are only ways to preserve wealth after the collapse (if you live through it). They are only useful if you are leaving for a stable country (as TG stated) or after the recovery is well on its way to normalization.


----------



## Denton

dsdmmat said:


> Gold and silver are only ways to preserve wealth after the collapse (if you live through it). They are only useful if you are leaving for a stable country (as TG stated) or after the recovery is well on its way to normalization.


True that.

If we are sent back to a lengthy stretch of bad times, silver will become the medium, again. Assuming we are looking at a currency collapse followed by a restructure, precious metals will save your wealth. From what I have read, it will be the time to spend it for real estate. I dunno, I guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Dalarast

There is a hat in that photo?

I was having a conversation about the value of utilization of silver/gold for barter after a collapse. I personally don't see the immediate value as pointed out earlier by another; but its great for a long term investment to transfer "savings/checking" into a storable item.

Bartering of alcohol.... man I think I may be a "rich" man if we ever do collapse. Beach Brewing in full affect


----------



## TG

I think that great items everyone should consider stocking is snack-sized ziplock bags and small bottles (dollar store?) to make bartering easier (grains, liquids..etc)


----------



## TG

Bumping this thread just because....


----------



## Dark Jester

I'm glad you did and thanx for your insight...

I have planned for brewing and distilling for my own consumption in a SHTF situation, but didn't think much about it as an item for barter.
I have a full set-up to make 10-gallon batches of beer and theoretically, since it is illegal, I would be able to make about 2-4 gallons of alcohol, depending on strength; 2 gallons would be for sanitizing and 3-4 gallons would be for consumption. I can and do distill water and make vinegar with my distilling unit. Vinegar has many uses including sanitizing. I could also use it for making essential oils, but have yet to do so.


----------



## Piratesailor

Good info. Thanks.


----------



## bigwheel

TorontoGal said:


> I posted this in another thread but I think this should have a separate thread.
> 
> I find it pretty crazy that people are spending money on precious metals in case of collapse.. My family (myself included, I was 13 years-old) lived through the collapse of Soviet Union, I remember all the women trying to trade their gold and silver jewellery with precious stones of all kinds and NO ONE wanted them..
> 
> The hottest items to trade were vodka (separate into small bottles), first aid supplies of all kinds, canned fish of all kinds (worth more than gold at the time), lose tobacco, tobacco seeds, rolling papers, store-bought cigarettes, rice (any other grains) separated in small 100gr bags, warm clothing (gloves especially are a great trading item), socks, soap was worth as much as gold, toilet paper, grain mill&#8230;etc
> 
> One day, all the stores, hospitals, pharmacies, bakeries, factories..etc simply didn't open, all were owned by the government and when workers showed up for work, they were not allowed in or the doors were simply chain-locked. I'm sure it didn't all close in one day but I was 13 and suddenly everything changed and facing a whole city in a panic. People were scrambling to trade anything and everything for food and other basics, no one was trading in precious metals or gems unless you were trying to get to the nearest stable country and buy a plane ticket to another stable country. Another thing, suddenly our passports were invalid and all money suddenly had no value.
> My point is, if you're going to collect items to trade, collect basics, they will be worth more than all the gold and silver in the world.


Great tips on that. Was wondering if the precious metal hoarding was a good plan. Apparently not. What sorta got me interested in prepping was a book wrote back in the 70's by a nice Mormon fellow named Howard Ruff called "How to Suvive the Coming Ruff Times." He was big into the future bartering scenario. He was a fan of .22 shells. He claimed a box of those would be as good as a twenty dollar bill. Course dont imagine the Ruskies was allowed to have guns..so prob wouldnt have worked over there. On top of that I forgot to buy a bunch before Obummer and George Soros shut off the ammo supply. kick kick. I make some pretty good cowboy wine and can make Vodka which the Czar would be proud to drink. Course since its illegal I dont do that wink wink.


----------



## TG

I have this memory of walking downtown (all public services stopped, including transport) and seeing women standing along the streets with necklaces and other jewelry visibly displayed in their hands trying to stop passers-by asking for food in exchange for jewelry, it was a very sad sight, they were standing there for many hours.. Even months later, jewelry was still not seen as a trading item but local farms were doing great by "selling" (vodka, clothes..etc) their veggies/fruit, chickens.

City dwellers were not allowed firearms but farms were allowed to keep whatever firearms were left over from first and second world wars.. But there just wasn't much violence, people were just sad and many were helping out.


----------



## bigwheel

TorontoGal said:


> Many tiny homes (we were lucky not to live in a high-rise) had wood ovens, so my job was constant gathering and fishing (we lived on the coast of Black Sea) with all the other kids, often we were fed by community organizations that sprang-up after the collapse and organized themselves in local schools, schools were open within 2-3 months but no much teaching was going on. My great-grandfather always made ridiculous amounts of Horilka (Ukrainian alcohol stronger than vodka), my mom made soap using dog fat (stray dogs, we didn't eat them though as far as I know) everyone was doing something. We had some civilized moments when the TV broadcast went back on and our government changed what felt like 10 times, no one knew what was going on.


Found Horika. Thanks. 
Horilka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Uncle Jessie's Sour Mash is real popular around these parts.

Artisan Distiller ? View topic - Uncle Jessie's Sour Mash


----------



## TG

bigwheel said:


> Found Horika. Thanks.
> Horilka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Uncle Jessie's Sour Mash is real popular around these parts.
> 
> Artisan Distiller ? View topic - Uncle Jessie's Sour Mash


Sounds interesting


----------



## AquaHull

I get crazy quicker when I drink brown liquor


----------



## AquaHull

I'm thinking I could stock Vodka, since I really don't care for it much anymore.


----------



## Ripon

This was a great OP. My only disagreement would be over PMs. I can see them having no value in Russia during their collapse, but our world is different. A few things to ponder...

1). We have private property here. It can be traded. 
2). We have a far greater number of elites. The top 1% is 3.3 million people here and they are loaded. 
3). We are a consumer nation....Russia was or had none of these circumstances.

Hence I think a prudent prepper will find PMs quite useful both early in collapse and well after. In the middle not so much.


----------



## bigwheel

AquaHull said:


> I get crazy quicker when I drink brown liquor


Brown stuff gives hang overs. Good white dog dont do that. Smoother than mothers milk and no resisidual effects the day after. They peddle some high dollar vodka around here which the yups love. Its called Tito's Hand Made Vodka and is made in Austin I think. All the stuff is is corn base white lightning as per Uncle Jessies Recipe. Those yups know whats good..lol.


----------



## Inor

bigwheel said:


> Brown stuff gives hang overs. Good white dog dont do that. Smoother than mothers milk and no resisidual effects the day after. They peddle some high dollar vodka around here which the yups love. Its called Tito's Hand Made Vodka and is made in Austin I think. All the stuff is is corn base white lightning as per Uncle Jessies Recipe. Those yups know whats good..lol.


Help me out here. I am a beer only kind of guy. I do not drink vodka or any other liquor. I do not have anything against it; I just like beer. But I have spent a fair bit of time studying up on how to make it. Vodka is nothing but straight Ethanol watered down to the desired proof. How is there a difference between "good" vodka and "cheap" vodka? I mean, other than the water they use to dilute it, ethanol is ethanol isn't it?


----------



## Maine-Marine

Look - another do not buy silver or gold thread...

You need canning jars....all yu have to trade is nails
Joe has canning jars but needs a belt for his windmill
carl has a belt but needs wheat
fred has wheat but needs vinegar

Silver and Gold is a place holder - something that you can trade when you do not have the right thing to trade... 

it is not going to be used for the first little while...but it will be used

the reason nobody wanted the ladies silver and other things...is because nobody had extra... lets face it... the USSR is was nothing like the USA and that is why it collapsed... there nobody had extra anything... 

get a good stock of food first..BUT have silver at least... but get silver after the food...

it would have been nice in the USSR to have extra food to get the silver... and trust me..somebody did ..and they are sitting pretty now


----------



## Old SF Guy

I prefer to invest in lead and food and things that will trade well. I see Toronto's point as dealing with the immediate issues and she is correct. Precious metals are precious because of what? what do we use Silver for that can't be accomplished with another metal? What of Gold? There rarity means little except in a society that value them over something else. in a SHTF the usefulness and necessity of an item will greatly out value a metal of little use in survival. But once the situation normalizes I'm sure the intrinsic value of the metals will return.

I shall take most peoples gold in exchange for stuff they need when the time is right...and in the new world I will be Donald Trump wealthy....LOL


----------



## mcangus

Thank you for sharing but I find it really difficult that you mention no violence. Is it possible you were sheltered from it or you sort of tuned it out?

What years was this and what was the name of the event?


----------



## RNprepper

mcangus said:


> Thank you for sharing but I find it really difficult that you mention no violence. Is it possible you were sheltered from it or you sort of tuned it out?
> 
> What years was this and what was the name of the event?


I think I can understand the lack of violence. Americans are so spoiled by their liberty that they will riot at anything - even winning a ballgame. Would anything like that ever be tolerated in the Soviet Union? It was probably not even an option to consider.


----------



## TG

mcangus said:


> Thank you for sharing but I find it really difficult that you mention no violence. Is it possible you were sheltered from it or you sort of tuned it out?
> 
> What years was this and what was the name of the event?


Around '91 at the end of Summer, Gorbachev was kidnapped, there was a ku. We were far from all that, lived on the Black Sea. There were minor random protests in Odessa (population over 1 million) but really, no crowds destroying property or breaking into stores (looting). Everyone just wanted to know what's next. I was 13 and ran around the whole city with friends, people in that area just aren't insane like in some other major cities. 
One day we suddenly became a separate COUNTRY called Ukraine.


----------



## TG

RNprepper said:


> I think I can understand the lack of violence. Americans are so spoiled by their liberty that they will riot at anything - even winning a ballgame. Would anything like that ever be tolerated in the Soviet Union? It was probably not even an option to consider.


There were huge protests in Moscow and Leningrad ( now called St.Petersburgh) because of the ku, but mostly because there was a lot of misinformation and lies, no one knew which side to be on, both sides seemed dangerous, I wish I was older and retained more of what was happening. Some people died as the result of protests but there were no angry crowds destroying the city and breaking into stores, I saw many intact windows, at least where we were. Police were showing up for work every day even though they weren't getting paid for months. I'll post more details when I remember more. My mom totally refuses to discuss this topic unfortunately.


----------



## TG

I'm sure adults had a much harder time than the kids did, I remember things the way I saw them as a 13 year-old. My family is vast, we are spread through many cities and regions, many had different experiences. One thing though, it is a very painful topic to discuss, everyone lost so much.


----------



## Inor

TorontoGal said:


> There were huge protests in Moscow and Leningrad ( now called St.Petersburgh) because of the ku, but mostly because there was a lot of misinformation and lies, no one knew which side to be on, both sides seemed dangerous, I wish I was older and retained more of what was happening. Some people died as the result of protests but there were no angry crowds destroying the city and breaking into stores, I saw many intact windows, at least where we were. Police were showing up for work every day even though they weren't getting paid for months. I'll post more details when I remember more. My mom totally refuses to discuss this topic unfortunately.


Back in the late 90's Mrs Inor and I basically adopted a young man, Alex, that immigrated here from the former USSR by himself in his very early 20's. He is an OUTSTANDING software developer that worked for a client I had at the time. He was originally from the Azerbaijan area. His family was Christian, but his pop was an oil field engineer and that sent them there. Alex was living in Moscow, going to school at University of Moscow, at the time of the coup. He told us many stories of tanks rolling down the streets in front of his college dorm, first the Russians, then the folks loyal to the drunk Yeltsin. It does not sound like something I ever want to experience. But I fear that is what is coming here sooner rather than later. I do not mean to offend, but it sounds like Moscow was a bit more neighbor against neighbor than your town. (And I thank God for it! Nobody should have to go through that.)


----------



## budgetprepp-n

It sounds like this little lady has some great insight. 
Maybe now is not the time to invest in silver. Instead buy what will be needed and trade that for your silver.
might get it really cheap 

TorontoGal,
I have a question,,, What would be the best 5 things to have for trading?


----------



## TG

budgetprepp-n said:


> TorontoGal,
> I have a question,,, What would be the best 5 things to have for trading?


I guess it depends where you are, but luxuries like Vodka, cigarettes, clean water, canned food, soap, warm socks, gloves..etc I don't smoke of'course but people will always value vices


----------



## TG

Inor said:


> Back in the late 90's Mrs Inor and I basically adopted a young man, Alex, that immigrated here from the former USSR by himself in his very early 20's. He is an OUTSTANDING software developer that worked for a client I had at the time. He was originally from the Azerbaijan area. His family was Christian, but his pop was an oil field engineer and that sent them there. Alex was living in Moscow, going to school at University of Moscow, at the time of the coup. He told us many stories of tanks rolling down the streets in front of his college dorm, first the Russians, then the folks loyal to the drunk Yeltsin. It does not sound like something I ever want to experience. But I fear that is what is coming here sooner rather than later. I do not mean to offend, but it sounds like Moscow was a bit more neighbor against neighbor than your town. (And I thank God for it! Nobody should have to go through that.)


Azerbaijan is so beautiful...
BTW, we are used to tanks on streets, lots of military parades, convoys of tanks passing through cities every day in some parts in peace time, we had a constant military draft (18 year-olds enlist for 2 years of service), we are used to seeing military everywhere.
Yes, Moscow and Leningrad were different and the army were trying to decide whom to side with.

PS, Alex was very lucky to have you in his life


----------



## Inor

TorontoGal said:


> Azerbaijan is so beautiful...
> BTW, we are used to tanks on streets, lots of military parades, convoys of tanks passing through cities every day in some parts in peace time, we had a constant military draft (18 year-olds enlist for 2 years of service), we are used to seeing military everywhere.
> Yes, Moscow and Leningrad were different and the army were trying to decide whom to side with.
> 
> PS, Alex was very lucky to have you in his life


Thanks, but Alex is lucky to have gotten to USA. Mrs Inor and I are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Ragnarök

TorontoGal said:


> I posted this in another thread but I think this should have a separate thread.
> 
> I find it pretty crazy that people are spending money on precious metals in case of collapse.. My family (myself included, I was 13 years-old) lived through the collapse of Soviet Union, I remember all the women trying to trade their gold and silver jewellery with precious stones of all kinds and NO ONE wanted them..
> 
> The hottest items to trade were vodka (separate into small bottles), first aid supplies of all kinds, canned fish of all kinds (worth more than gold at the time), lose tobacco, tobacco seeds, rolling papers, store-bought cigarettes, rice (any other grains) separated in small 100gr bags, warm clothing (gloves especially are a great trading item), socks, soap was worth as much as gold, toilet paper, grain mill&#8230;etc
> 
> One day, all the stores, hospitals, pharmacies, bakeries, factories..etc simply didn't open, all were owned by the government and when workers showed up for work, they were not allowed in or the doors were simply chain-locked. I'm sure it didn't all close in one day but I was 13 and suddenly everything changed and facing a whole city in a panic. People were scrambling to trade anything and everything for food and other basics, no one was trading in precious metals or gems unless you were trying to get to the nearest stable country and buy a plane ticket to another stable country. Another thing, suddenly our passports were invalid and all money suddenly had no value.
> My point is, if you're going to collect items to trade, collect basics, they will be worth more than all the gold and silver in the world.


Hi TorontoGal, Ive been lurking lol and your helpful post caught my attention and brought me out of the shadows. I have some questions for you...if someone was willing to trade a can of fish what did they want in return? What kind of fish was it? I have heard of a certain canned clam that is quite expensive currently and considered a luxury item. I believe the canned clam is of Spanish origin. I am not familiar with what is popular in Russian territory and am eager to learn.


----------



## TG

Ragnarök said:


> Hi TorontoGal, Ive been lurking lol and your helpful post caught my attention and brought me out of the shadows. I have some questions for you...if someone was willing to trade a can of fish what did they want in return? What kind of fish was it? I have heard of a certain canned clam that is quite expensive currently and considered a luxury item. I believe the canned clam is of Spanish origin. I am not familiar with what is popular in Russian territory and am eager to learn.


Welcome back  Honestly, any canned fish in oil, try a few different kinds and only buy what you find tasty so you can eat it too. We had all kinds of local and imported fish. Don't buy expensive clams, fish was popular because it's high in protein and packed in oil, lots of nutrition.

Also here is a photo (random off internet) of dried salted fish, we were fishing constantly and preserving fish, great thing to have or trade any time of the year.

http://www.21food.com/products/(dried-fish)-dried-yellow-stripe-trevally-443243.html

Trading canned fish for whatever you need really, maybe a bag of rice, something just as valuable, worth more than socks or gloves but it's for you to decide what your need at the time is.


----------



## Ragnarök

TorontoGal said:


> Welcome back  Honestly, any canned fish in oil, try a few different kinds and only buy what you find tasty so you can eat it too. We had all kinds of local and imported fish. Don't buy expensive clams, fish was popular because it's high in protein and packed in oil, lots of nutrition.
> 
> Also here is a photo (random off internet) of dried salted fish, we were fishing constantly and preserving fish, great thing to have or trade any time of the year.
> 
> (Dried Fish) Dried Yellow Stripe Trevally products,Thailand (Dried Fish) Dried Yellow Stripe Trevally supplier
> 
> Trading canned fish for whatever you need really, maybe a bag of rice, something just as valuable, worth more than socks or gloves but it's for you to decide what your need at the time is.


ic thanks for the info. currently I store tuna and sardines..i need to get some canned salmon and cheap canned clams ^^.

Do you think a can of corned beef would be worth more than a can of fish in Russia? or was fish the most sought after meat?


----------



## Ragnarök

computer being slow and double posted...deleted


----------



## Will2

Ragnarök said:


> ic thanks for the info. currently I store tuna and sardines..i need to get some canned salmon and cheap canned clams ^^.
> 
> Do you think a can of corned beef would be worth more than a can of fish in Russia? or was fish the most sought after meat?


salmon is my favorite so I canned fish personally. Tuna and sardines tend to be cheapest. bear in mind you're collecting metal when you're collecting cans take that into account.

"
Canned tuna is quite stable and has a long shelf life compared to other canned seafood products. The best way to find the actual shelf life of your canned tuna is to check on the can label and determine the manufactures recommended shelf life. Typically this will be about 3 years. However, if the tuna can is stored in a dry pantry or shelf this can be increased by a few years."

the thing that makes gold a good store item is that it does not corrode at a noticeboard rate. if you have no use for the metal why keep it unless you know somebody else will love you for itwhen life is on the line artificial concepts of wealth or lost to the living

a good way to decide what to stock is to know what you're going to eat within the time frame that the materials will go bad.

I can't help but remind people about the LDS centers

TorontoGal you may want to keep this place in mind http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/toronto/


----------



## TG

I really don't know anything about corned beef (don't even know what it tastes like), sorry but I'm sure any preserved food item would be valuable. Fish was just a lot more often consumed and sought after. Get whatever is more often consumed in your location.


----------



## AquaHull

No shocker that a Russian would not know about Corned Beef, but myself having kin from The Emerald Isle can tell you that Corned Beef is rather bland and even more so when served with cabbage.

Aye.put another shrimp on the Barbie

I came back here to ask whether it would be prudent to stock some half pints of Mohawk or Popov Vodka for trading?
I know I wouldn't drink that.


----------



## TG

AquaHull said:


> No shocker that a Russian would not know about Corned Beef, but myself having kin from The Emerald Isle can tell you that Corned Beef is rather bland and even more so when served with cabbage.
> 
> Aye.put another shrimp on the Barbie


Russians love Borsh, it's beet soup with potatoes, beef, cabbage and other veggies, very flavourful stuff.


----------



## Inor

TorontoGal said:


> I really don't know anything about corned beef (don't even know what it tastes like), sorry but I'm sure any preserved food item would be valuable. Fish was just a lot more often consumed and sought after. Get whatever is more often consumed in your location.


Are you kidding?!? You don't know about Corned Beef? You have some of the best delis in all of North America in Toronto and YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT CORNED BEEF?!? That is a sacrilege! 

Seriously, make your husband take you to a place called The Pickle Barrel. I do not know which part of Toronto you live in. But there are a few. I have eaten at the one on Younge & Dundas several times. Get the Corned Beef on Jewish Rye. It is fantastic!


----------



## TG

Inor said:


> Are you kidding?!? You don't know about Corned Beef? You have some of the best delis in all of North America in Toronto and YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT CORNED BEEF?!? That is a sacrilege!
> 
> Seriously, make your husband take you to a place called The Pickle Barrel. I do not know which part of Toronto you live in. But there are a few. I have eaten at the one on Younge & Dundas several times. Get the Corned Beef on Jewish Rye. It is fantastic!


I definitely love Jewish rye (have it with grilled salmon and hot peppers) but I stopped eating beef, chicken and whatever else is mass produced (too many meat recalls, I'm spooked  ) years ago. I would still eat fresh venison but only if it's killed wild and I still eat fish if it's also wild.


----------



## AquaHull

The Irish just pressure cook the crap out of it.


----------



## bigwheel

TorontoGal said:


> Russians love Borsh, it's beet soup with potatoes, beef, cabbage and other veggies, very flavourful stuff.


We love it likes a hog loves slop. Thanks.


----------



## Zed

Torontogal...I'm very thankful to you for sharing your invaluable information... and feel pretty bad for the situation you face..I've no feelings for adults..but children should never suffer....
well dog-fat soap..means I've to bath without soap...:lol:
few things i will politely differ
1. in 1980-90 people were genuine, simple, plain hearted...but nowadays people have become aggressive, obsessive and self-centered..so it never will be peaceful co-existence after SHTF..after-math of Katrina is evident..
2. immediate after SHTF gold, silver were of no value..but after 5 years some form of currency needs to come into existence or else its stalemate condition like stone-ages...so gold,silver will become important after a time-span..

but still its eye-opener..for me not only prepping for my family is important...but a little bit of prepping for hungry children has also become important...so guess i need to store more food


----------



## Will2

TorontoGal said:


> Russians love Borsh, it's beet soup with potatoes, beef, cabbage and other veggies, very flavourful stuff.


I can second that I had the chance to have some when I was in Kiev very tasty

While gold did not have local value look at its value outside of the USSR during that period. There could then be a massive potential for buying gold at very low value outside of the conflict zone for very high value with the risk in profit being transporting the goods outside of the conflict zone and bringing back in demand goodsif we look to the Middle Ages how risky merchant trade was where there was risk of robbery or highway robbery then we can understand that really it is just a refuedalization of trade

the same principles that apply to the Middle Ages apply to SHTF anarchy


----------



## budgetprepp-n

TorontoGal
Were spices hard to get like salt,Sugar,Pepper and stuff like that?
Which were the hardest to find?


----------



## Hawaii Volcano Squad

After WW II my grandfather Abraham was mustered out of the 2nd Polish Corps & returned to the USSR to find & retrieve his wife & children and what was a big seller for him, a sapper during the war and metal worker before the war, was a metal standardized Measuring cup for GOAT MILK. There were many farmers with goats, and his invention became very popular. He was given a free market spot in the town center in Osh, Kyrgyzstan because having fought in the war under Russian command he was considered a hero of the Soviet Union. He made enough money selling the measuring cups to get the family out of there & eventually immigrate to the USA, after waiting 5 years for a Visa. When he was returning to find them, he had bought a big pack of Swiss lighters and traded them on the road for what he needed.

My comment is what is the best barter item depends on where and when you are, and what folks in the area need.


----------



## bamacrazy

TorontoGal,

Great thread! Did you have a chance to ask your mom for the soap recipe?


----------



## PossumPie

Cigarettes and Vodka...My father is leaving for Kiev in a few days. If you ever get over there, you must visit Chernobyl a few hours to the north. It is as close to a model of TEOTWAWKI as I've ever seen.


----------



## TG

I was 60km from Chernobyl (visiting in a small town) when it happened, no one told us there was an accident. Years later, we're still fine.


----------



## TG

bamacrazy said:


> TorontoGal,
> 
> Great thread! Did you have a chance to ask your mom for the soap recipe?


My mom gave me a dirty look and told me not to ask that again LOL I think it should at least be on google, sorry.


----------



## PossumPie

TorontoGal said:


> I was 60km from Chernobyl (visiting in a small town) when it happened, no one told us there was an accident. Years later, we're still fine.


Thank goodness! It is really spooky now...doll babies lying around, toys, vines growing inside...It is spooky.


----------



## TG

PossumPie said:


> Thank goodness! It is really spooky now...doll babies lying around, toys, vines growing inside...It is spooky.


It took the government 30 days to tell us, that's when we went back to Odessa, people were freaking out, I was just a little kid.

BTW, the scene you describe is only still there because the tourists pay to see it


----------



## TG

PossumPie said:


> My father is leaving for Kiev in a few days..


Do you have family in Kiev? You spell it in Russian language-style  The Ukrainian government changed it to Kyiiv


----------



## oddapple

TorontoGal said:


> It took the government 30 days to tell us, that's when we went back to Odessa, people were freaking out, I was just a little kid.
> 
> BTW, the scene you describe is only still there because the tourists pay to see it


You have been great with the experience posting. I think it is helping people get their head around....


----------



## TG

oddapple said:


> You have been great with the experience posting. I think it is helping people get their head around....


Thanks, SHTF scenarios are constantly happening all over the world but sharing personal stories is emotionally overwhelming for most.. I was a kid, thankfully, my memories are not as emotionally overwhelming as my mom's or other adults.


----------



## PossumPie

TorontoGal said:


> It took the government 30 days to tell us, that's when we went back to Odessa, people were freaking out, I was just a little kid.
> 
> BTW, the scene you describe is only still there because the tourists pay to see it
> Do you have family in Kiev? You spell it in Russian language-style The Ukrainian government changed it to Kyiiv


No family there, my Father is retired and goes to Poland and Ukraine to help build schools, churches, etc. for the people. Going to Baba Yar was also a moving experience. The average person doesn't realize how horrible the Nazi's decimated Ukraine during WWII. My father also has been to Auchwitz in Poland. Another dreadful place. Hope I didn't offend with the Russian Spelling, What with the troubles over there now, it's a touchy subject.


----------



## Wise Prepper

I personally own no gold or other metals. Dont plan on it either. For the price of a few oz's i can feed us both for over a year! I also would not trade till at least a year down the road in SHTF situation. I will have plenty for us for atleast a couple years if not more.


----------



## TG

PossumPie said:


> No family there, my Father is retired and goes to Poland and Ukraine to help build schools, churches, etc. for the people. Going to Baba Yar was also a moving experience. The average person doesn't realize how horrible the Nazi's decimated Ukraine during WWII. My father also has been to Auchwitz in Poland. Another dreadful place. Hope I didn't offend with the Russian Spelling, What with the troubles over there now, it's a touchy subject.


Babin Yar is absolutely terrifying, I could only visit it once and I was shaking like a leaf the whole time, you FEEL the dead all around you, so much tragedy there..

I'm not offended at all, both spellings are correct. Kievskaya Rus was the beginning of Russia, thanks to invading "Vikings", I love history 

Your father sounds like an amazing person.


----------



## Mad Trapper

In a pinch you could cast gold bullets.


----------



## TG

Mad Trapper said:


> In a pinch you could cast gold bullets.


Isn't gold way too soft to be useful as bullets? I imagine the bullet getting flattened before exiting the firearm.


----------



## Mad Trapper

No more so than lead. You can't load them at high velocities. I cast balls/bullets for blackpowder firearms. People do not realize how accurate and deadly they are. Silver would work too but it is not as dense

Concerning barter items. I've a fruit press and can ferment all sorts of stuff from my orchard/berries/grapes. It is a way to use surplus fruit other than canning/drying/or root cellar.

I have a dozen glass 5-gal carboys with airlocks for fermenting mash. This can be wines or ciders or left to make vinegar. Vinegar has many uses in preserving food/pickling. The vinegar or wine/cider can be distilled to make it more concentrated. The alcohol can be raised to 95% with a good still. That has many uses as a liquor, disinfectant, or fuel. A still can also be used to purify water. But keep in mind distilling requires fuel. I have contemplated making a small still for my wood stove for use in winter months.

Soap and detergent is always handy. If you have a source of lard and wood ashes you can make your own. Lighters/matches. If gasoline becomes scarce bicycles and parts. 

I have been a mechanic and have tools to fix everything from lawnmowers to tractors. I can barter my skills.

I heat with wood and cut with a chainsaw. But I have have felling and crosscut handsaws, axes, mauls, sledgehammers, wedges. Also have woodworking tools for traditional timber framing. Can make a log into a beam and cut all the joinery by hand. 

If you are by the sea or large lake fishing tackle. I would not barter mine but would surplus fish I caught. 

I would rather spend time growing my own food but growing tobacco or weed might be more profitable for barter. Like alcohol it is catering to a vice.

As medicines may be in short supply a garden of medicinal herbs and the knowledge to gather wild medicinals. You can make salicylic acid (aspirin) from many plants such as willow and wintergreen berries.

There are many chemicals to stockpile. Calcium hypochlorite (pool shock/bleach). Iodine (solid) as a disinfectant and water purifier when properly prepared. Alum for tanning leather. 

I need to think about this some more.......


----------



## PossumPie

I just don't want any PMs. I understand why some people want a pile of silver or gold, but in a crisis, you can't eat them. The bottom line is that a person can argue all day that 'everyone' will barter with gold, but I for one will NOT accept it as currency, and many others who will make it through TEOTW also have made a point to say that they won't either. What good it is when you are looking just to survive? IF it is not a total collapse of govt/economy, then it will eventually have value again....someday. But, it is heavy, and takes up space in your BOL. Better to barter with honey, water, food, services, knowledge, etc. These have value no matter what.


----------



## Urinal Cake

Toronto Gal this was a great 1st hand experienced thread. Thank you for posting and to all that contributed as well.
Level 1 Beans, Bullets and water.
Level 2 Barter commodities- Booze smokes hygiene supplies
Level 3 what you forgot,hopefully your band of compatriots will have....


----------



## StarPD45

TorontoGal said:


> Thanks, SHTF scenarios are constantly happening all over the world but sharing personal stories is emotionally overwhelming for most.. I was a kid, thankfully, my memories are not as emotionally overwhelming as my mom's or other adults.


That is why she doesn't want to talk about it. The same applies to veterans returning from war.
Thanks for this thread.

It's amazing what I miss by not being on here for a month.

Here's a link to surviving in Argentina: SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: Thoughts on Urban Survival (2005)
It's worth a read.


----------



## bigwheel

TorontoGal made a believer out of me. We are writing precious metals off the to do list. Stocking up on Vodka and Cigarettes. Also dog soap. lol.


----------



## PossumPie

bigwheel said:


> TorontoGal made a believer out of me. We are writing precious metals off the to do list. Stocking up on Vodka and Cigarettes. Also dog soap. lol.


As in anything in prepping, do what YOU think is best. Having said that however, I think many of the PM crowd can't grasp the concept of gold or silver having no INTRINSIC value after a collapse. I was debating this with a 'gold horder' once, and said that if he were marooned on a deserted island with me, and I had a case of canned peas and he had a gold coin, who would fare the best...He said "I'd offer you the coin to share the peas." I said "Your gold won't buy you a single pea, but I'll trade you half of my peas if you trade me the can opener you have in your pocket." 
I read ALIVE - the book about the rugby team that crashed in a jet in the Andes mountains. They survived for several months by eating the flesh of the dead passangers and crew. Not one of them ever said "Wow, I wish we had some gold and silver." :sad:


----------



## Dalarast

PossumPie said:


> I read ALIVE - the book about the rugby team that crashed in a jet in the Andes mountains. They survived for several months by eating the flesh of the dead passangers and crew. Not one of them ever said "Wow, I wish we had some gold and silver." :sad:


They were to busy wishing they had BBQ sauce....

Beans and bullets will always be important but this entire thread is full of useful ideas for barter items. The other key to remember is location and environmental items of important. Living on the ocean a key item may be fishing tackle. Feed or items relevant to a farm may be a key item in certain areas... Point being is to look around your area and ask yourself what would these morons want to trade me or what could I offer them....

I will be bartering beer... But eventually I will need wheat and grain. Soooo unless the farmer likes to get toasty I may have to figure out what he wants....


----------



## TG

Remember fresh clean water... No water, no farming.


----------



## Moonshinedave

How about small bottles of calcium hypochlorite for trade? Some time after a major SHTF event, it could be one (if not the) most important things a person could have. What is it? Better than Bleach: Use Calcium Hypochlorite to Disinfect Water | Ready Nutrition


----------



## oddapple

Yes. Far from our temple, there will be a friendly, dirty scavenger who always seems to be able to rummage up a few refined chemicals and drugs to trade.
Beggars wander all over the place picking up weird stuff....


----------



## PossumPie

I think that trade/barter won't even come into play in a major crisis until LONG after things have settled down. People who have prepared will be hunkered down and assessing what they have, people who haven't prepared will be dying. Think about the logistics of saying "Oh, crap, we forgot______. Where do we get some?" I have no neighbors that I know of who are prepared, so It would mean some kind of rough outdoor market that evolves in a local area to trade. Something like that in a crisis won't happen until things have calmed.


----------



## TG

In our situation, the trading began almost immediately..


----------



## oddapple

TorontoGal said:


> In our situation, the trading began almost immediately..


Toronto is right. 
That is not all that will begin immediately.
What will take time is any relief or restoration, like always here.


----------



## TG

The first thing I remember was our next door neighbour asking to trade his bag of rice for a couple of shots of our vodka (he was thirsty lol) and a cup of goat milk for his toddler. We were lucky, the men in my family were constantly making their own alcohol (chili pepper horilka and conventional vodka)and everyone wanted some


----------



## bigwheel

I am going to get cranked up on the shine when the infernal revenoorers go out of business. Think I done told yall I got a nasty sounding letter from them when the idiot who sells the stills over the net turned everybody's name and pertinent info over to them. Sorta holding my breath expecting them to run a warrant or do a knock and talk type scenario. If anybody wants to get into the hobby buy used equipment or make your own.

Moonshine Still ? A Step by Step Guide to Building a World Class Home Distillation Apparatus


----------



## HuntingHawk

I already have trading material set up. Ziplock bag with rice & another with mixed beans. The bags put in plastic coffee containers.


----------



## HuntingHawk

As per purchasing alcohol for barter, get the highest octane you can get.

As producing alcohol, you need the raw materials as well as fuel to do it.


----------



## HuntingHawk

I think having something to barter that no one else in your area has is to your advantage. For me, come spring I will be doubling my solar. SHTF I will be able to barter charging 12VDC batteries. Should be plenty of those when fuel isn't available for vehicles.


----------



## oddapple

HuntingHawk said:


> I think having something to barter that no one else in your area has is to your advantage. For me, come spring I will be doubling my solar. SHTF I will be able to barter charging 12VDC batteries. Should be plenty of those when fuel isn't available for vehicles.


There ya go. Had not thought of that one.


----------



## GasholeWillie

In Soviet Union item trades you.


----------



## HuntingHawk

Thinking outside the box.


----------



## TG

Oooh just remembered! There was a shortage of shovels, suddenly (in the following Spring) people who never had a garden suddenly wanted one, shovels were a hot commodity and hard to find


----------



## AquaHull

I have one next to every hole I'm digging.One can never have too many holes on your property. S.S.S.


----------



## oddapple

If I had the front money, i'd have a truckload of red oak brought over.
But we still have weaknesses in food/drugs to shore up.


----------



## TG

Plant a nut tree, you'll always have an extra protein source.. We were surrounded by walnut and pecan trees, they are happy in the North climates too, I'm sure South has a few great species to choose from.


----------



## AquaHull

oddapple said:


> If I had the front money, i'd have a truckload of red oak brought over.
> But we still have weaknesses in food/drugs to shore up.


Got red,white,black and pin in the back yard


----------



## oddapple

Well I took pictures of the pecan orchard but can't get them to upload.
Pecan flour, pecan soda, pecan coffee, pecan pie, pecan everything....we sell them now for extra, but not this year.


----------



## HuntingHawk

Peanuts & pecans in the south for nuts. Plenty of varieties of berries & fruit trees grow in the south. Deep south there is also citrus as well as bananas.


----------



## TG

Lucky


----------



## Camel923

I have black walnuts, hazel nuts almonds, cherries, apples, pears, black berries, mulberries, blue berries. The apricots, peaches and plums failed. I'm going to replant the plums. I might just be pushing the apricots and peaches this far north.


----------



## littleblackdevil

Great thread Toronto Gal. I took a hiatus from the site and this is he first thread I have read since coming back. Excellent information. Sorry you had to endure those times. Happy your through it.


----------



## TG

Camel923 said:


> I have black walnuts, hazel nuts almonds, cherries, apples, pears, black berries, mulberries, blue berries. The apricots, peaches and plums failed. I'm going to replant the plums. I might just be pushing the apricots and peaches this far north.


Camel, unless you're in Alaska, you can't be much farther North than I am and here, we have apricots, peaches, apples, pears..etc


----------



## TG

littleblackdevil said:


> Great thread Toronto Gal. I took a hiatus from the site and this is he first thread I have read since coming back. Excellent information. Sorry you had to endure those times. Happy your through it.


Thanks and welcome back, I have a cousin in Winnipeg, lots of Ukies there


----------



## littleblackdevil

You bet! I have been reaping the rewards... PEROGIES


----------



## bigwheel

oddapple said:


> Well I took pictures of the pecan orchard but can't get them to upload.
> Pecan flour, pecan soda, pecan coffee, pecan pie, pecan everything....we sell them now for extra, but not this year.


We have two big ones in the backyard. Did have three but one got to dropping too much gunk into the cement pond so it got whacked. Did not make hardly any nuts last year but this year is looking like a bumper crop. The squirrels love us.


----------



## TG

My freezer is full of perogies of all kinds of flavours  Have you tried Horilka yet?


----------



## littleblackdevil

Not yet! I think Ill have to now.


----------



## Mad Trapper

TorontoGal said:


> My freezer is full of perogies of all kinds of flavours  Have you tried Horilka yet?


My Polish Grandparents called it grolcha (spelling) I think. Sort of a raw distillate, not refined like vodka. They made wonderful hard cider and had parties in the spring with a 55-gal wooden barrel.


----------



## TG

littleblackdevil said:


> Not yet! I think Ill have to now.


Find the kind made with hot chili peppers and drink it with a snack or you'll suffer


----------



## littleblackdevil

Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Mad Trapper

TorontoGal said:


> Oooh just remembered! There was a shortage of shovels, suddenly (in the following Spring) people who never had a garden suddenly wanted one, shovels were a hot commodity and hard to find


Every sort of hand tool will have value. I have all the old gardening tools like hoes, spades, shovels, pitchforks, scythes, sickles, potato forks, etc. Other hand tools for working wood from tree to firewood or lumber. Hand tools for timber framing and making things like shingles. All the old devices for doing layout to make frames like plumb bob, chalkline, divider/compass.

Hand boring machines and braces for wood and hand drills for metal. Tools to work metal like dies and taps. Also have an anvil and set of hammers. Am in the process of making a forge. A forge is very useful if you have metal stock to work with. You can make wonderful tools out of scrap metal.

Oil lamps and spare wicks. Wax and candles. Tredle sewing machine and lots of threads. Cobbler tools and leather.

Solder and tools to fix plumbing. Save any MAP gas/propane for this, don't waste it for cooking. An old fashioned blow torch that uses liquid fuels.

Seeds of all sorts for a garden. Non-hybrid/heirloom are best. I have enough for at least two years of garden. Unused potatoes from the root cellar get replanted. A book on saving various vegetable seeds. Some seeds will store years, other only will be viable for a few years. Means to process your food for storage. Pressure cookers, jars and lids.

A good wild edible plant book.

Books of all sorts with useful information. You won't be looking things up on the web. For that matter textbooks to educate your children. I still have all mine from college. My mother taught grade school and I still have the basic texts she used. Books about hands on traditional skills in a pre-electric world. Knowledge is invaluable.

If you have access to plenty of fuel (wood) a steam engine to power machinery and/or generate electric.

Sorry if I'm wandering a bit off topic......


----------



## PossumPie

I downloaded a book on moonshine still making and recipes...Just waiting until Uncle Sam and the rest of the goons have more on their minds than worrying about hooch.!!


----------



## bennettvm

If you have food, shelter and means to protect yourself - whatever happens in the world is irrelevant. I do about 5% of my prepping for trade. I stock up on small cheap vodka, whiskey, candy, diapers, etc. Just for trade.


----------



## Zed

Here's a link to surviving in Argentina: SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: Thoughts on Urban Survival (2005)
It's worth a read.[/QUOTE]

That link was just eye, ear, brain or whatever possible opener..thanks a lot


----------



## PossumPie

I think our responses here about barter/trade are highly dependent on what scenario happens. If it is swift and devastating, I stand by my believe that there will be little barter early on. People will be trying to adapt and stay alive. Talking about the former USSR, that was much slower, and in an area where people tended to prepare for things. They had gardens, and their own food. I look at the average "Joe suburbanite American" who couldn't raise a weed in a manure pile, and think, "I wonder how many miles away the next prepper really is? My grandfather told tales of growing up in the Great Depression and how they lived on a farm in the country. It effected them, but not NEARLY as much as it effected the city folks. They grew extra, and sold it on a route through the city, but very few people were actually starving even in the cities.


----------



## CWOLDOJAX

Zed said:


> Here's a link to surviving in Argentina: SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: Thoughts on Urban Survival (2005)
> It's worth a read.


That link was just eye, ear, brain or whatever possible opener..thanks a lot[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Zed.

Recently I met a gentleman from Argentina who left there and moved to the USA. As a former military pilot it he was able to find work and support his son.
He left his wife behind, she did not want to leave her relatives. (This is hard for me to understand). His story, is similar to that of FerFal's. 
He taught my son and I how to use warm water and salt to clean-up after roasting a pig. I use to camp a lot while growing up and I never saw anyone do that... it works great!

I've always believed that there are two ways to learn from experience; that of your own and someone else's.

TG and your link bring important lessons and skills to be practiced before our day in the USA arrives.


----------



## TG

PossumPie said:


> I think our responses here about barter/trade are highly dependent on what scenario happens. If it is swift and devastating, I stand by my believe that there will be little barter early on. People will be trying to adapt and stay alive. Talking about the former USSR, that was much slower, and in an area where people tended to prepare for things. They had gardens, and their own food. I look at the average "Joe suburbanite American" who couldn't raise a weed in a manure pile, and think, "I wonder how many miles away the next prepper really is? My grandfather told tales of growing up in the Great Depression and how they lived on a farm in the country. It effected them, but not NEARLY as much as it effected the city folks. They grew extra, and sold it on a route through the city, but very few people were actually starving even in the cities.


Thousands of city residents living in high rize apartment buildings were hardly growing things


----------



## TG

*Here is what most of the city looks like, some built in the last several centuries *Charming architecture of Odessa · Ukraine travel blog
``````````````````````````

Yes, many people had some kind of a garden except for the large parts of the city that was mostly high rise apartment buildings with hundreds of thousands of people without gardens, living in tine, often communal apartments (1 kitchen + 3 bathrooms per floor for everyone to use, built in the 70's), many people were lucky and had normal units, but there were hardly gardens, not different from US or Canada.]


----------



## PossumPie

TorontoGal said:


> Thousands of city residents living in high rize apartment buildings were hardly growing things


What would have happened if the markets stopped having food in those cities? Would those millions been able to barter for food with people living in the country? Some would have I guess, but at some point it would break down.


----------



## rucusworks

Thanks Toronto girl for this entire thread. It is great to hear first hand accounts from your perspective. Although, sorry you had to endure those tough times.


----------



## PossumPie

rucusworks said:


> Thanks Toronto girl for this entire thread. It is great to hear first hand accounts from your perspective. Although, sorry you had to endure those tough times.


Agreed...Thanks TorontoGal!!!


----------



## oddapple

"What would have happened if the markets stopped having food in those cities? Would those millions been able to barter for food with people living in the country? Some would have I guess, but at some point it would break down."

People in the country starved to death too. The depression people that raised me were still haunted by it if anything reminded them.
Just like now? Songs like "I'm on top of the world!" We're on the charts and people living in box towns.
This time, not allowed to have a box town.


----------



## Mad Trapper

oddapple said:


> "What would have happened if the markets stopped having food in those cities? Would those millions been able to barter for food with people living in the country? Some would have I guess, but at some point it would break down."
> 
> People in the country starved to death too. The depression people that raised me were still haunted by it if anything reminded them.
> Just like now? Songs like "I'm on top of the world!" We're on the charts and people living in box towns.
> This time, not allowed to have a box town.


My grandparents raised 9 children on a farm during the depression. They were never hungry and always had work to do. They ran draft horses and oxen so no fuel did not matter. Just needed to harvest the fields to keep the animals running.


----------



## oddapple

They were lucky like mine. Bet they never forgot how frail it can be either. Now, almost no one comparatively can even make their own food and yes, scarier than ebola.


----------



## HuntingHawk

My grandmother once told me rationing during WWII was easy after having been raised during the Depression. Took me about 15 years before I knew what she was talking about.


----------



## HuntingHawk

TorontoGal, sorry about what you went threw in your youth but it helped mould you into the person you are today.


----------



## HuntingHawk

BTW, my grandmother was born in 1909.


----------

