# Police Shooting Frenzy.



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Police Shooting Frenzy Raises Concerns « CBS Miami

This incident actually took place in December, but the report of the incident was recently released. Here are is the basic story.

A guy robbed a Walmart, shot a cop and took his car, drove to his grandmother's and took her car, and then later picked up a guy who had nothing to do with the previous incidents and had not broken any laws.

The car was chased into a parking lot and became lodged between a tree and another car. 23 cops opened fire on the car firing a total of 257 rounds not only hitting other cars, businesses, and a condo, but wounding two of their fellow officers.

Both the driver and the passenger where killed. NEITHER the driver or the passenger were armed and there were no firearms found in their car.

Oh yeah, the car was hit over 50 times. That means that only one in five rounds fired managed to hit a car sized target. I know that it might make you nervous to have your fellow officer shooting at YOU while you are shooting, but to miss a CAR 80% of the time?


----------



## Dr. Prepper (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes I would have to agree with you 100% *IF* all the info. we receive is true and not pumped up by the media and others. I'm not taking any sides here but it has been my experience that in situations like this a person would have to have been there and involved before making any kind of comment. But it is also very easy for LEOs to get caught up in the frenzy and carry things too far. Adrenalin does some crazy things to some people (purps as well as cops).


----------



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Adrenalin plus steroids is a horrible mix.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I have heard many times that if you shoot a cop there is a good chance that you will be killed "resisting arrest". I really sounds to me that there are some cops that need to be better trained in hand gun safety and marksmanship.


----------



## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I never like to say what I'd do in a situation unless I was indeed in that situation, however, I find it very hard to believe if I was one of those 23 cops I'd be so filled with fear, hate, anger or whatever their excuse to riddle a helpless car full of bullets, without giving the person a chance to give up.
Something indeed needs to be done, liberals say they are worried about John B, Public carrying a weapon, I worry more about LEO's like this with egos and firearms.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> Police Shooting Frenzy Raises Concerns « CBS Miami
> 
> This incident actually took place in December, but the report of the incident was recently released. Here are is the basic story.
> 
> ...


Several things here: (1) my calculator tells me that each cop fired an average of 11.1739 rounds. If they all started firing at once (they most likely did) this is completely normal. A sane individual keeps firing until the threat ends. In this case it was probably a matter of seconds.
(2) The perp already shot a cop, how did they know he wouldn't again?
(3) On forums such as this, one always hears the mantra of "shot placement". Folks, a gunfight is nothing like what happens on a gun range. When the adrenaline hits the levels generated by someone trying to kill you, "shot placement" becomes a matter of luck.

Like Dr Prepper says, I wasn't there, don't know what went down. So I really am neither defending nor condemning the cops involved. But I am speaking from the experience of having been in a fight or two.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

New movie, "Cops Gone Wild." If this doesn't scare the pi$$ out of you, you're...


----------



## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

I was a cop for 13 yers. I always scored 248-250 out of 250 when we requalled, plus I was on the SWAT team. I'm pretty good with hand or long gun. I shoot well not because of LEO training but because I spend ALOT of money out of my pocket on ammo to train myself. My old department gave officers 50 rounds a year to train with. Thats 50, not 500! You would be surprised how many bullet strikes are on the floor, walls, and ceiling of the indoor range. It's scary. There were some officers that I would not be near when on the range. Alot of cops you see on the street are college boys and girls who have never been in the military and never had any experience with firearms other than a few days at the academy and requals at their department.


----------



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

From a "Reasonable Officer" perspective I think this is a case of sympathetic response. One guy starts shooting and everyone assumes he saw or knew something they did not. It is a reflexive action promulgated by fear and an innate sense of self preservation that occurs in a millisecond deep in the brain. In many cases, unfortunately, it is followed by "Oops". I do not believe you can train this out of new Officers. It is a human reflex triggered by fight or flight. Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor and wiser to seek cover. I'm certainly not condoning what they did, I am only suggesting that most people, given the same situation may well do the same. 

I responded to an armed gunman a couple of weeks ago who was intent on suicide by Cop. The Officer who backed me up was scared to death. His anxiety was palpable. He was shaking, pale, sweating and his voice went up several octaves when he gave verbal commands. This is just part of being human and less about vengeance. I know that some cops want to get even, but try and put yourself in the same situation. Until you have been in combat or shot at and accumulated life experiences that allow you to control your adrenaline and fear you are in the end, only human too.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Most LE I know do not shoot well. But some how they get a reputation for being experts. I have talked to many that have never removed their weapon from the holster on the job, and only fired to qualify once a year. Many carry Glocks and that is why you need one.
So wrong in many ways.
As for the car shooting is there more to the story ?


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

We saw the same thing when Torrance, CA police officers, without warning shot up the truck of 2 women delivering newspapers. The police shooting occured during the hunt for ex-LAPD officer Christopher Dorner. No warning, no nothing, just shoot. Cost the city $4.2 million. Strange, but I can't find what happened to the 2 gun happy officers! I would assume they were fired, but why not charge them with attempted murder, violations of the women's civil rights, etc.?


----------



## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)




----------



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

keith9365 said:


> I was a cop for 13 yers. I always scored 248-250 out of 250 when we requalled, plus I was on the SWAT team. I'm pretty good with hand or long gun. I shoot well not because of LEO training but because I spend ALOT of money out of my pocket on ammo to train myself. My old department gave officers 50 rounds a year to train with. Thats 50, not 500! You would be surprised how many bullet strikes are on the floor, walls, and ceiling of the indoor range. It's scary. There were some officers that I would not be near when on the range. Alot of cops you see on the street are college boys and girls who have never been in the military and never had any experience with firearms other than a few days at the academy and requals at their department.


One of our local ranges holds regular pistol competitions. The entrance fees are pooled and the winner takes all. Most months, it seems like better than half of the entrants are active duty police officers hoping to augment their incomes by winning the pot. In the 10 or 12 times I've entered over the last few years, I've won it 5 times. My engineer buddy has won it just about every other time. I have yet to see a police officer take higher than 5th or 6th place. After watching most of the cops in our valley shoot in a competition setting, I'm really not surprised to learn that other police fail to hit a stationary vehicle 8 out of 10 times. Most of our cops simply can't hit a man sized target from 25 feet while hurried, or while out of breath. We regularly have cops bounce rounds off the floor or off the ceiling during competition.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Several things here: (1) my calculator tells me that each cop fired an average of 11.1739 rounds. If they all started firing at once (they most likely did) this is completely normal. A sane individual keeps firing until the threat ends. In this case it was probably a matter of seconds.
> (2) The perp already shot a cop, how did they know he wouldn't again?
> (3) On forums such as this, one always hears the mantra of "shot placement". Folks, a gunfight is nothing like what happens on a gun range. When the adrenaline hits the levels generated by someone trying to kill you, "shot placement" becomes a matter of luck.
> 
> Like Dr Prepper says, I wasn't there, don't know what went down. So I really am neither defending nor condemning the cops involved. But I am speaking from the experience of having been in a fight or two.


Yes, the guy had shot a cop earlier, but he didn't have a weapon on him at the time of the shooting. He passenger was not a criminal. How did they know that he wouldn't shoot a cop again? How about because he didn't have a gun on him, and therefore they didn't see any guns. His passenger didn't have a gun on him. As for the adrenaline rush from someone trying to kill you, NO ONE was trying to kill the police officers except perhaps their fellow officers. It was not a gunfight. A gunfight implies that someone is shooting back at you, and it was a CAR. I too have been in a fight or two, and I am positive that if someone was shooting at me from a car I could at least hit the car he was sitting in if I fired back at him. It looks like it was an execution, plain and simple.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Sorry, I had the numbers wrong. It wasn't 257 shots fired, it was *377*. So instead of 1 in 5 hitting the car, it was 1 in seven.


----------



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Notsoyoung said:


> Yes, the guy had shot a cop earlier, but he didn't have a weapon on him at the time of the shooting. He passenger was not a criminal. How did they know that he wouldn't shoot a cop again? How about because he didn't have a gun on him, and therefore they didn't see any guns. His passenger did have a gun on him. As for the adrenaline rush from someone trying to kill you, NO ONE was trying to kill the police officers except perhaps their fellow officers. It was not a gunfight. A gunfight implies that someone is shooting back at you, and it was a CAR. It looks like it was an execution, plain and simple.


Agreed. This was an execution. The chances of you surviving arrest after having killed a cop is about as good as convincing congress to audit the Federal Reserve.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> Yes, the guy had shot a cop earlier, but he didn't have a weapon on him at the time of the shooting. He passenger was not a criminal. How did they know that he wouldn't shoot a cop again? How about because he didn't have a gun on him, and therefore they didn't see any guns. His passenger didn't have a gun on him. As for the adrenaline rush from someone trying to kill you, NO ONE was trying to kill the police officers except perhaps their fellow officers. It was not a gunfight. A gunfight implies that someone is shooting back at you, and it was a CAR. I too have been in a fight or two, and I am positive that if someone was shooting at me from a car I could at least hit the car he was sitting in if I fired back at him. It looks like it was an execution, plain and simple.


Were you there? Were you a participant or a witness?
How do you know exactly what happened? Do you know for sure the dead perp didn't have something in his hands? Do you know if the cops ordered the perp to show his hands and he refused?
I am going to remain neutral until a report is released.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

It does seem strange that this happened DEC 10th and has been kept quiet this long.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Were you there? Were you a participant or a witness?
> How do you know exactly what happened? Do you know for sure the dead perp didn't have something in his hands? Do you know if the cops ordered the perp to show his hands and he refused?
> I am going to remain neutral until a report is released.


Watch the video. Your questions are answered by a witness. They were unarmed, and that is known. The perp attempted to put his hands up when ordered after the first shooting spree, but his actions drew another volley of fire.

A shame it went down like this, but I'm not going to throw rocks. This is why...

The perp already shot one cop. Why wouldn't he be treated as armed?

The incident happened at night. Obviously, things are harder to see, and things that are not really there are seen.

One cop sees something that is not there and, in a high stress situation, shoots.

One cops shoots and the rest fire in order to neutralize the threat they believe the other cops saw.

I am not excusing a lack of fire discipline, I am simply saying I can understand it. I suggest the department is in need of training. Things were learned, and other departments will learn from this, too.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You do have to wonder what was going on. Was it made clear this BG was to never get a chance to speak? There will be more to this , who knows if we will hear it.


----------



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Were you there? Were you a participant or a witness?


One doesn't have to be present, or a participant of an event to make judgment regarding the guilt or innocence of a perpetrator. If this were the case, Jury members would have to be present at the scene of a crime in order to qualify for selection for that particular trial. We both know that's not the way it works.



rice paddy daddy said:


> How do you know exactly what happened? Do you know for sure the dead perp didn't have something in his hands?


Who cares if the perp DID have something in his hands?

Having a cell phone (or other innocuous item) in one's hands DOES NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, justify a 377 round barrage of gunfire from police.



rice paddy daddy said:


> Do you know if the cops ordered the perp to show his hands and he refused?


Again, it doesn't matter if they did. Simply failing to show one's hands does not justify the use of such extreme and deadly force. Such force is only justified under clear and present threats to the safety of the officers or the public at the scene.

Seriously, man...you're not going to convince me that an unarmed perp, trapped in a car, surrounded by law enforcement personnel, is a greater threat to public safety than scores of armed officers sending 377 rounds into the surrounding cityscape...striking adjoining structures and residences (where kids live, for god's sake)...hitting fellow officers...missing 85% of the time.

And people wonder why poll after poll shows support for law enforcement plummeting.



rice paddy daddy said:


> I am going to remain neutral until a report is released.


Released by whom?

The very police department who's members were involved in the shooting?

That won't be biased at all. :lol:


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Then there is the 93 year old women. Just more and more of this countless number already this year.

Texas town shaken by police shooting of 93-year-old woman | Fox News


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I guess it's the LEOs in these cases believe in the old adage, "Shoot first, ask questions later!" If this officer was so fearful, maybe he shouldn't have been on the force! While I wasn't there, don't know all the details, I still scratch my head over the shooting of a 93 year old woman.


----------



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Then there is the 93 year old women. Just more and more of this countless number already this year.
> 
> Texas town shaken by police shooting of 93-year-old woman | Fox News


There have been literally thousands of these types of cases in recent years.


























The more I see, the angrier I get. American police are absolutely out of control.


----------



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)




----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Charles Martel said:


> Agreed. This was an execution. The chances of you surviving arrest after having killed a cop is about as good as convincing congress to audit the Federal Reserve.


Actually, the little buzzard got what he deserved.
And as a Florida taxpayer I will not have to pay for his trial nor his incarceration on death row at Raiford for thirty years of endless appeals.
I really don't see a down side here.


----------



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Actually, the little buzzard got what he deserved.
> And as a Florida taxpayer I will not have to pay for his trial nor his incarceration on death row at Raiford for thirty years of endless appeals.
> I really don't see a down side here.


The downside is that two unarmed men (one of them innocent) were executed by police, due process was completely denied, civil liberties were trampled (coincidentally the same liberties that protect you and your family from similar police brutality), and the public was unnecessarily endangered.

It's likely that the driver of the car was a violent felon, a dirtbag, and a cop killer...but as ugly as his crimes were, he deserved his day in court. He was innocent until proven guilty. Cops don't have the right to execute suspected criminals. It's that simple.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

What about the other person in the car? And was this done to ensure the persons killed silence? we may never know now.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Actually, the little buzzard got what he deserved.
> And as a Florida taxpayer I will not have to pay for his trial nor his incarceration on death row at Raiford for thirty years of endless appeals.
> I really don't see a down side here.


And the passenger who was not involved in any crimes? Did he deserve to be shot too? Is that guilt by association? You deserve to be shot for riding in a car with a criminal? And if you didn't know that the driver had committed any crimes? Let me guess, he should have known and therefore deserved to die.


----------



## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

keith9365 said:


> I was a cop for 13 yers. I always scored 248-250 out of 250 when we requalled, plus I was on the SWAT team. I'm pretty good with hand or long gun. I shoot well not because of LEO training but because I spend ALOT of money out of my pocket on ammo to train myself. My old department gave officers 50 rounds a year to train with. Thats 50, not 500! You would be surprised how many bullet strikes are on the floor, walls, and ceiling of the indoor range. It's scary. There were some officers that I would not be near when on the range. Alot of cops you see on the street are college boys and girls who have never been in the military and never had any experience with firearms other than a few days at the academy and requals at their department.


I've worked with guys in law enforcement and security that the safest place you could possibly be when they discharged their weapon, was directly in front of them.


----------



## SecretPrepper (Mar 25, 2014)

Notsoyoung said:


> And the passenger who was not involved in any crimes? Did he deserve to be shot too? Is that guilt by association? You deserve to be shot for riding in a car with a criminal? And if you didn't know that the driver had committed any crimes? Let me guess, he should have known and therefore deserved to die.


Gus McCrae: You know how it works, Jake: you ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw. I'm sorry you crossed the line

I am not saying that the way it went down was right or just but as Gus said...... I can tell you that I know the company I keep.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

SecretPrepper said:


> Gus McCrae: You know how it works, Jake: you ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw. I'm sorry you crossed the line
> 
> I am not saying that the way it went down was right or just but as Gus said...... I can tell you that I know the company I keep.


Then why stop at executing just the guy who was in the car with him? Let's round up all of his friends, and we don't really know how close the 2 of them were, and while we are at it, his relatives, including his grand-mother whose car he was driving, take them out to a parking lot, and shoot them.

Hopefully we haven't gotten to the point were it is alright for the police to shoot unarmed people because they "might" pose a threat. Hopefully we haven't gotten to the point where it is alright for the police to shoot someone who hasn't broken the law but are riding in the same car as an unarmed criminal. Yes it was a stressful situation and adrenaline was running high, but if the 23 cops who were there can't handle it, then they need to find another line of work. At a minimum they should be fired, but actually at least some of them should be facing jail time.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We have to face the facts. This has been happening more and more. Happens so often now it is common place. Look at the homeless man in New Mexico. This is happening because of the Militarization of our LE agency. They are not just jumping the gun on shooting BG, they are gunning people down. They are been hyped up and trained to act as something they are not. Infantry soldiers make lousy COPS. Cops make terrible soldiers. Two different worlds.


----------



## SecretPrepper (Mar 25, 2014)

Notsoyoung said:


> Then why stop at executing just the guy who was in the car with him? Let's round up all of his friends, and we don't really know how close the 2 of them were, and while we are at it, his relatives, including his grand-mother whose car he was driving, take them out to a parking lot, and shoot them.
> 
> Hopefully we haven't gotten to the point were it is alright for the police to shoot unarmed people because they "might" pose a threat. Hopefully we haven't gotten to the point where it is alright for the police to shoot someone who hasn't broken the law but are riding in the same car as an unarmed criminal. Yes it was a stressful situation and adrenaline was running high, but if the 23 cops who were there can't handle it, then they need to find another line of work. At a minimum they should be fired, but actually at least some of them should be facing jail time.


That is not what I am saying. Agin it does look like this went down BAD. This is happening way to often. It is also happening to law abiding people. What I am saying is that if you keep bad company the chances of something bad happening to you are greatly increased. The passenger was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The passenger knew what kind of person he was riding with. They both should still be alive and the passenger should probably be walking free. Sadly pour screening, traning and other things are leading to this ending more often. I was not and am not disagreeing with you. The fact remains that bad things happen to bad people and the people that hang out with them more often than good people. I am defining good as law abiding in this situation. Yes, bad things do happen to good people and it happens by cop as well. I was raised to trust the LEO's but now sadly it is a diffrent world.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I witnessed an officer shooting a whole 9mm magaine into a road hit deer. The deer was still in pain when the officer had to reload. This is from standing over an already mortally wounded animal. What is that 15 shots? 

I've had many one shot kills on woodchucks at > 50 yards with a 44 mag.


----------



## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I don't have to have been there to know wrong when I see wrong. The cops say he shot a cop, he probably did, but we don't know, nor do we know the circumstances behind it. He didn't get his day in court as our legal system demands. There was no presumption of innocence, which is the foundation of our legal system. The passenger was also killed, how do you justify that? He could have been a hostage for all we know.

As I understand it, the car wasn't going anywhere. They should have set a perimeter to contain the guy and then call in a SWAT team. Put a night vision scope on him and see what's happening. If he needs to be dropped, let the designated marksman do it with one shot. Our troops in Iraq and 'Stan have stricter rules of engagement and wouldn't have gotten away with this shit if the guy was Al-Qaeda. Our US citizens deserve better treatment, don't you think?

These cops are a danger to law abiding citizens. I'm not saying this guy was a law abiding citizen, and I'm not gonna shed a tear over him getting killed, but he wasn't the only person put at risk by these blood thirsty, deranged maniacs in uniform.

On the other hand, from what I have heard, the shooting of that 93 year old woman was a clean kill. If you are waving a gun around and the police show up and order you to drop the gun, there are really only 2 possible outcomes... you drop the gun or you have a gun fight. If it was a 25 year old Mexican male, nobody would be up in arms over this. The fact that she was an old lady is meaningless to me. Old ladies can pull the trigger too. The fact that they will probably fire the cop isn't right, if you ask me. Is it a tragic loss of life? Yes it is, but she made her choice when she went for her gun. You live by the sword, you need to be ready to die by it.

We see hundreds of videos of cops gone wild on YouTube, but don't see the millions of times they do their jobs in a professional manner. It's not an easy job, but there are lots of tuff jobs out there. 

The trigger happy asshats who think they are still in Fallujah need to be weeded out of the force and put down like the rabid dogs they are. (metaphorically speaking) Better yet, disarm all the police until we can develop a program of psychological testing that can effectively screen out the psychos and stop putting the public in danger from those who are supposed to be protecting us.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

If the old lady had shot someone breaking into her home she would be a hero. If you are shot in the head by a 93 year old woman it will kill you just as dead as if you were shot by a 25 year old. It is sad, but were it me, I would do the same as the cop..... or maybe try to delay her for about 10 minutes and then take the gun away after she either falls asleep or dies of old age.


----------



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> passenger was also killed, how do you justify that? He could have been a hostage for all we know.


This sort of thing has happened several times recently. LAPD opened fire on a vehicle matching the description of a vehicle driven by a suspect, only to find that it was the wrong vehicle. IIRC, two or three completely innocent citizens were shot.

Being pulled over or approached by the police has become one of the most dangerous circumstances a citizen is likely to find themselves in. According to CATO, the average law abiding citizen is far more likely to be injured or shot by a cop than they are by a criminal. The training and mindset of American law enforcement personnel has changed dramatically in the last three decades. They no longer view themselves as our protectors. They wrongly view themselves as our overlords. It's best to avoid contact with them at nearly any cost.


----------



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

It's easy to armchair quarterback these things but one thing I have noticed is that these situations occur with greater frequency in liberal bastions like California, New York and Colorado. I realize that these are dense population centers but most pursuit policies in America are extremely prohibitive. In these places Police seem to be able to chase you for not using a blinker for God's sake. In my neck of the woods they are limited to violent felonies and extremely impaired drivers. Now Police have to have Emergency Vehicle Operations training twice a year (See the Vanessa K. Free act) and there is really little or no discretion in the policies.

Deadly force encounters are dictated now by Garner Vs. Memphis Police Department which was a SCOTUS case that made it unlawful to use deadly force against a fleeing felon unless certain criteria were met. Prior to that case you could shoot someone who was running away for stealing a $500.00 watch. Now, again the invocation of deadly force must be accompanied by imminent threat to human life. An Officer could probably shoot a fleeing serial killer or mass murderer but that's about it. Aside from that, deadly force can only be used to preserve the life of a third party or an Officer.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I wonder if this is similar to the frequency of earthquakes and other disasters. The reason we hear more about it is that things we didn't used to hear about are more widely reported today.

Excessive use of force by law enforcement is wrong but the reporters are the same ones who said that a white male hunted down little Trayvon Martin and murdered him. I take anything in the press with a large dose of salt. Their track record for factual reporting leaves a lot to question - and videos can be edited to show something that just didn't happen.


----------



## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

PaulS said:


> I wonder if this is similar to the frequency of earthquakes and other disasters. The reason we hear more about it is that things we didn't used to hear about are more widely reported today.
> 
> Excessive use of force by law enforcement is wrong but the reporters are the same ones who said that a white male hunted down little Trayvon Martin and murdered him. I take anything in the press with a large dose of salt. Their track record for factual reporting leaves a lot to question - and videos can be edited to show something that just didn't happen.


It's definitely happening more frequently. Albuquerque New Mexico is a case in point. The APD has shot and killed more people than New York City, which is 16 times larger. Officer involved shootings are definitely up.


----------



## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> I witnessed an officer shooting a whole 9mm magaine into a road hit deer. The deer was still in pain when the officer had to reload. This is from standing over an already mortally wounded animal. What is that 15 shots?
> 
> I've had many one shot kills on woodchucks at > 50 yards with a 44 mag.


I have seen an officer shoot a road hit deer as well. He stood away from it because I guess he was afraid of it and shot it several times. It was still bellering and bleating and in pain. I walked up and put one 22 lr from a handgun behind the ear and it was all over..


----------



## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

PaulS said:


> I wonder if this is similar to the frequency of earthquakes and other disasters. The reason we hear more about it is that things we didn't used to hear about are more widely reported today.


Yes Paul, I'm sure that is part of it. Everyone carries a camera these days, so more of this stuff makes the news.

On the other hand, I have to wonder how much of this was just swept behind the thin blue line in the past? My guess is more than any of us would find comfortable.


----------



## RogerD (Mar 31, 2014)

Well I guess Andy was smart in only giving 1 bullet to Barney.


----------



## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

I know that you can post anything on the web but a couple of sites do try and be somewhat legitimate. I'm not going to weigh in on this shooting I think it's pretty obvious. But some of you have asked is it more frequent. Don't know, but these fine folks have done a pretty fair job of documenting the actual shootings. I'll let you read them and draw your own conclusions. List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, January 2013 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Nite Ryder (May 12, 2014)

keith9365 said:


> I was a cop for 13 yers. I always scored 248-250 out of 250 when we requalled, plus I was on the SWAT team. I'm pretty good with hand or long gun. I shoot well not because of LEO training but because I spend ALOT of money out of my pocket on ammo to train myself. My old department gave officers 50 rounds a year to train with. Thats 50, not 500! You would be surprised how many bullet strikes are on the floor, walls, and ceiling of the indoor range. It's scary. There were some officers that I would not be near when on the range. Alot of cops you see on the street are college boys and girls who have never been in the military and never had any experience with firearms other than a few days at the academy and requals at their department.


Very well stated Keith. I've been saying this for years, as a general rule, cops are very poor shots with a handgun because not many of them practice and most of them never did really learn how to use a handgun. I'm a former LEO, and back in the 70's when I was first hired, no ammo was handed out to practice, and no one practiced. I did ok because I was on a military pistol team when I was in the service, stationed in Korea, and learned how to shoot. Today it is scary what police officers do and get away with. It is also scary that most all police agencies have SWAT teams, as do most government agencies, even though crime has been on the decline for several years now. The no knock search of your home without a warrant makes the police entering your home very dangerous and threatens your life.


----------



## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

I can chime here from a cop shoot out I was inadvertently involved in as a bystander. Someone robbed a bank in a little podunk town I lived in I just happened to be at a gas station filling up the truck when the local Barney fife's go screaming down the wrong side of the road into on mainstreet into oncoming traffic hanging out the windows of the squad cars blazing away at the fleeing getaway car my truck caught a couple of stray rounds less than 2 feet away from me. I actually met the sack of shit that shot my truck. He slunk off like a the sorry asshole he was.


----------



## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

I think most cops need to spend some more time at the arcade with a roll of quarters


----------



## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Nite Ryder said:


> Very well stated Keith. I've been saying this for years, as a general rule, cops are very poor shots with a handgun because not many of them practice and most of them never did really learn how to use a handgun. I'm a former LEO, and back in the 70's when I was first hired, no ammo was handed out to practice, and no one practiced. I did ok because I was on a military pistol team when I was in the service, stationed in Korea, and learned how to shoot. Today it is scary what police officers do and get away with. It is also scary that most all police agencies have SWAT teams, as do most government agencies, even though crime has been on the decline for several years now. The no knock search of your home without a warrant makes the police entering your home very dangerous and threatens your life.


Most medium to large agencies have their own SWAT team now. Most are collaterial duty positions so the officers do not train full time. The government has a program where surplus military gear is given to police agencies. I have seen everything from camo uniforms to MRAP armored personel carriers around here. You know every local PD needs a IED blast proof vehicle. The problem with this is sooner the chief is going to want to play with his new toy. You have a warrant that may be for a minor crime. The next thing you know your door flys off the hinges and camo uniformed men wearing masks come running into your house. Sorry mam, that TV remote in his hand looked like a pistol so I ripped off half a mag of .223 into his chest. My bad.


----------

