# The ultimate bug out location for the price of a storage unit.



## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/castle-storage-farms/x/7157805?show_todos=true

I have patented this idea and have been working on it for over 4 months now, please check it out and let me know what you think, I could really use your help.

Thank You


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

First post & link to asking for donations. Spam or troll?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Not interested in clicking on an unknown link.
Besides, I already live in the ultimate bug out location.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

it is the best way I can think of to explain what it is, and no, just a guy trying to save as many people thinking they can hide in the woods or join a couple friends and fight off MS13 ect by themselves. What one are you ?

actually there is the third option, someone that thinks they can hide in a hole in the ground until someone pumps some insect repellent into your happy hole.

BTW I used to be a hide in the woods type and afraid to post anywhere because of opsec, then i realized that millions live around those woods and will probably have the same idea with no training, starving, shooting anything moving.

I also looked into VIVOS but for the life of me I could not figure out what actually reserved that space for me other than a piece of paper, once you figure the number of years they have been selling those same spaces I decided I needed to make sure I would be on the correct side of the doors when they closed.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

John, you might think about proof-reading the text on your video. 

From what I am gathering, it appears to be a community of storage units; is that correct? This collection is at your site, and we can even have supplies sent directly to the site?

Hydroponics is used to grow organic food; is this also correct?


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Yes, shipping containers form the walls of the aquaponics greenhouse, they are modified into storage units stacked 2 or more deep and 3 high, then rented just like any other storage unit, if SHTF you go to your storage unit where your preps are. 

Basically you have a food factory needing nothing from the outside world, with 24' sheer steel walls, studded with 2X10's and the void filled with sand once unit is installed.

You can modify your storage unit for whatever you think you would need but there will be community facilities available to all. 

I have over 1,000 pages of details so if you think I may have forgotten or not considered something, please let me know, also yea I sook at spelling =/ It is a good thing Grammar is not that important in a SHTF situation.

Thanks for the feedback, will try to fix the spelling tonight.

also hydroponics uses a lot of chemicals, aquaponics uses the natural relationship between fish and plants to produce crops that can be harvested from seed to food in as few as 30 days, grown 365 a year, uses 1/10th the water, and 1/6th the energy of a standard farm.

That post is so I can build the test facility, it will be built regardless but I am trying everything I can think of to lessen the need for outside investors that will only be interested in profit. Once the test facility is perfected it will be the blueprint, it will be copied, exact duplicates will be mass produced and sold as franchises so I can insure that they all maintain the standards needed to protect those within, I am trying to make a BOL affordable to everyone. Well everyone that is not on a sex offender list anyway.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

OK, I finished the video. You are advocating aquaponics. Not really seeing that as a survival system, as one needs to supplement the system in order to get all the nutrients needed.
Simply being "organic" does not mean all nutrients are in the food. Furthermore, the fish must be fed, which requires more storage of more items. Pesticides, herbicides and fish medicine is also required, along with a power supply. Of course, you will have a power supply, but you'll live longer than will the fish if it goes out for a time. Still, aquaponics would be not the worst thing, if you lived in somewhere like Hawaii, where the climate is more suitable for year 'round aquaponics farming.

As far as I can figure, your patented concept it to bolt storage containers together in order to form a fort. I see a problem with this. The more room for growing your food will require a larger container perimeter, which will require more personnel for security, which will require more food, which will require a larger perimeter, which will continue the cycle.

I am not a big fan of such fort-building. Even if you make such a thing impenetrable, you'll not be able to stay in there, forever. While you may keep MS-13 out, they'll keep you in. That doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

I also find a couple other things a problem with you and your project. You notion is patented, but you want others to cough up ideas and information, not to mention cash. I'm sure you can see my issue.

Regardless, you would benefit greatly were you to proof-read the text. Educated people with disposable cash are not likely to invest in a start-up business that puts such errors out there.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Ah, I see you were posting as I was writing.

Good luck!


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

They will look like castles, and if things really get ugly they will be exactly that, with tenant farmers tilling the surrounding land, protected by snipers and thermal cameras from the walls.

I really wish I could type as well as you =/

Aquaponics have come a long way in recent years, the only input is fish food and maybe some seaweed extract from time to time, the facility is designed to house and feed 1,000 people forever. any pesticides or harsh fertilizer would kill the fish thus it is very easy to get this type of farm certified as organic, and a fast track program exists for this purpose. At 1k armed preppers i do not think finding guards will be an issue, most will be in classes all day to keep them busy. Duckweed will provide about half of the fish food.

We will have chickens, rabbits and all that as well but they will be kept at a minimum for breeding pairs if needed.

The idea is patented because I do not want some money hungry conglomerate to cheap out the idea. The entire facility is climate controlled greenhouse. 

BTW the tenant farmers are the hoards of people wanting protection but failed to rent a facility.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

The idea is to provide a location where anyone that can afford a regular storage unit, can afford to protect their family. 

According to the SSA (Self Storage Association) Some 47% of all self storage renters have an annual household income of less than $50,000 per year; 63% have an annual household income of less than $75,000 per year.

I do not care about the filthy rich tbh, they have already made plans or will not no matter what you do. I want to protect the average person, and I am pretty sure most could afford $10 to help themselves out.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

The idea of using a storage facility as an emergency shelter is patented.

With the help of this R-Series Waterjet Systems | Water Jet Cutting Machine & Parts - WARDJet Inc.

and an assembly line production facility each of the proposed 400 shipping containers can be brought in, cut with the corresponding part number program, reinforced, then sandblasted and shot with spray in ballistic bedliner LINE-X Sprayon Bedliners, Protective Coatings, Truck Bed Coating, Floor Coating, Industrial Flooring

The exterior wall would be framed in using 2X10 and 1/2" plywood sheathing the void between the studs will be filled with sand once the container is at it's final sight and put in it's corresponding numerical position. The Box O' Truth #7 - The Sands O' Truth - Page 1 the sand would also help with rapid temperature changes one would expect from a steel structure. There are no exterior windows. The outside of the facility will be covered in foe stone so the facility looks like a Castle, dominating the surrounding landscape. We will not hide in a hole in the ground, we will stand tall in the light.

With a fully staffed production facility we could have a complete shelter facility ready for shipping in less than 2 weeks, shipping could not be easier since all components are simply loaded into their corresponding shipping containers. each facility that is built will of course have hardened communications and form another link in the network from which all the others could draw support. This support would also help insure discipline, even if we did not actually assemble an assault group consisting of a few members of each facility, the rumor would be enough to keep everyone following the rules and preventing a hostile takeover from within.

One of the primary issues preppers have is where to store there preps, we are a storage facility, Items could be ordered directly from our website and shipped to their location to be ready for them to use with no more effort than a few clicks. This is the ultimate in keeping a low profile, it would be a simple matter for someone to completely prepare for any disaster and no chance of someone else finding out about the hoard of goods and taking them when they are most needed.

Each unit can be modified into anything the renter can dream of, once again from the comfort of their home. Military grade air filtration, water, electricity (other than the standard LED lighting provided) septic. Anything from a bare bones place to be safe to a luxury mini fortress, everything about the design is done to scale and infinitely flexible.

My primary concerns are EMP (grid failure) and riots from an economic collapse, but I have developed methods to address other concerns.


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

Are there not zoning issues for this? In the UK using anything like this for shelter would require ridiculous amounts of zoning and infrastructure requirements and would be a pain to get set up.

I appreciate what you are trying to do but I doubt it would fly in Europe and even less so in the US due to the even heavier restrictions on habitable spaces.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

I spent 14 years in the military, 5 of those in the infantry, 9 in logistics including my trip to Baghdad, I know quite a few of those highly trained people you speak of and there is no chance in hell, want to know why ? each storage unit is secure with a direct line of sight into the interior of the facility, at the sound of alarm half the population will retreat inside their unit leaving nothing to shoot at but rifle barrels. besides those highly trained people you speak of get a major discount for rental, along with doctors vets and other needed job skills.

I was a guard on Texas state death row for a year, I know a little about security. My logistics mentor at Ft. Bragg went to one of those wonderful units where you can grow out your beard. Anyone that knows what they are doing would look at the kill zone and the IR cameras and find an easier target.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Also these facilities are outside of city limits avoiding most zoning issues altogether, furthermore they are primarily farms and would enjoy those tax benefits as well. For permit reasons this is a farm with some storage units, in a SHTF situation we will not turn away our customers, if they should choose to visit their storage unit.

It is amazing how fast you can teach an average person the basics specific to there location and duties when they know their life and those of their loved ones depend on it.

If you look at the design of a storage container, the frame inside has all of the strength, thus you pour pylons for each corner and a reinforced footer for the outside edge, make sure you can drill acceptable well capacity and you are located on the highest ground in the area and you have a facility. A rented crane or forklift can stack the units as fast as the trucks can deliver them.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

John Oscar said:


> I spent 14 years in the military, 5 of those in the infantry, 9 in logistics including my trip to Baghdad, I know quite a few of those highly trained people you speak of and there is no chance in hell, want to know why ? each storage unit is secure with a direct line of sight into the interior of the facility, at the sound of alarm half the population will retreat inside their unit leaving nothing to shoot at but rifle barrels. besides those highly trained people you speak of get a major discount for rental, along with doctors vets and other needed job skills.
> 
> I was a guard on Texas state death row for a year, I know a little about security. My logistics mentor at Ft. Bragg went to one of those wonderful units where you can grow out your beard. Anyone that knows what they are doing would look at the kill zone and the IR cameras and find an easier target.


Logistics. Supply specialist? Are you saying you went from infantry to supply?

I was military police. My specialty was keeping people out of an area. I, too, worked as a state corrections officer. There, I specialized in keeping people in, primarily.

By the way, you'll find this to be a community of vets and rural folk.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Denton said:


> Logistics. Supply specialist? Are you saying you went from infantry to supply?


yea reclassed from 11B to 92Y



Denton said:


> I was military police.


I deployed to Baghdad with the MP's



Denton said:


> By the way, you'll find this to be a community of vets and rural folk.


That is what I was hoping for.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

It is not a timeshare, it is their lock on the door and their items located inside, the location rentals follow standard laws regarding self storage units. And it is not my intent to create a facility where I am king, it is my intent to create 1,000 facilities supporting each other, all having hardened communications, and 999 other facilities with a couple talented people each forming a tactical strike team that knows the exact layout of the facility insuring that crap does not happen. The hard core primary defense mechanism (being preppers going into their respective units and shooting intruders) will not work when they know the team is there to kill that asshole that hurt their families.

In fact I really do not think anyone on the wall positions would shoot anyone who verified who they were and they had an asshole like that inside.

Yes there will be general rules all must follow even after SHTF, they will be based on the 10 commandments and the US constitution, the worst punishment would be expulsion from the facility, maybe naked, after a good beating if they were helping the enemy with an attack.

I have given some thought to the government that would handle things, really leaning towards the 3 equal branches theory, one elected official from each wall, 4 total making one branch, myself or the person who runs the perspective facility, being the equivalent of the president tho elected for life, and a congress made up of each member that rented the unit before SHTF with that title passing down like an inheritance.

but if you have suggestions I am open to them.

BTW you have to remember that everyone inside is going to be armed to the teeth at all times. the right to bear arms is in the constitution and will be respected.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

lol I would be president of one facility, and yea I would think the position would be for life, yes you can locate your facility anywhere as long as it is the highest ground around, and has a well accessible water table.

Estimated cost of a franchise would be about 700k and that would include training and cost of the entire facility being shipped to the closest rail-head to the approved location you choose. Would also include a site supervisor to oversee assembly, we could supply the labor but you would probably be better off getting it locally than paying my personnel, especially if you have a lot of unregistered democrats and someone that can speak spanish.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

First read through and it kind of sounds kind of like herding cats to me. I guess I'll have to re read it.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

If you can think of a way to simplify the explanation, I would really like to know.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

It is a crowdfunding site so people who think you have a good idea, can chip in a few bucks to help make it happen. Most of the best ideas in history were already thought of a few hundred times, they were just thought of by the wrong person, one without a rich family, or the drive to make it happen, Indiegogo is a way to prevent these ideas from dying, for the first reason anyway.

It is perfect for my idea because even if someone only puts in $10, they are a customer that paid to be on our rental waiting list and that means a lot when you go in for a loan, I have a good chunk of home equity and a little in savings..... kids college fund, then max out my credit, really hoping I do not have to bring in angel investors or venture capitalists that are not going to give a crap about the idea, only the money they can suck out of it.

But yea, that is basically what it is for.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

I like the concept. I got motion sick watching the video though. What will you do with waste? There will be lots of it. And what about water? I'm assuming some sort of well or aquifer that you will tap into and do you have the water rights? Waste and water don't mix. What happens if the well dries up?

The biggest problem I see with a castle is the siege. Those on the outside have all the time in the world as well as a free flow of resources to just keep making your life miserable. Eventually, with enough support, that castle will fall. At some point, you will run out of resources inside. You can only reload that brass so many times, keep so much powder, bullets etc. It will eventually run out. And a siege can be laid for YEARS. How big is the perimeter surrounding the castle? Do you have the ability to clear that back if need be? Remember, 1000 yard shots are about as common now a days as making a free throw given the technology and equipment. 

As for your crops, what's the back up plan if your crop is hit by some runaway disease or fungus? Your animals? A hydroponic set-up seems by default to be somewhat sterile to keep food safe for consumption, and likewise, a really clean environment for livestock. 

And where would you keep isolation for sick or infected in an enclosed community? How would you contain it? 

I have always been fond of the "Defensive Position" and castles are cool. But it has serious limitations and this is why people don't build Castles anymore. They're great for thwarting smaller hit and run attacks and provide peace of mind to the occupants if you're in a relatively peaceful location. But in a real siege, they'll likely do nothing more than prolong the inevitable. 

As you know, our troops maintain their FOB's with air drops of supplies. Hell, that's how we maintain Operational Readiness regardless of where we are. You would likely not have that same luxury. During the Battle of the Bulge our troops were emaciated when it came to supplies. They were low on food, ammo, medical supplies, weapons, equipment etc because the planes couldn't get in. 

And how would you defend against air attack? Wouldn't take but a small squadron of "Ultra-Light" aircraft to do a "HAHO" style attack (cut the motors a couple miles out and glide in nice and quiet like) on you with some IED's and Molotov Cocktails. Or infest you with crickets, locusts or some other "organic attack". 

It's a great idea as a community, but I don't know if I would bill it as a "be all end all" in survival. There is a certain amount of luck required for its success.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

well I'm sure some have been waiting for my comment

I'm not a vet, I don't live in a rural area, I'm just a asshole just getting by

your talking 1000 people or 1000 families?? (average family been 4, 2 parents 2 kids that increases your numbers a lot!!)

I love the idea of a ready made community, always have, but you need a lot of infrastructure to support it, as well as facilities, from health, education, waste, accommodation, law enforcement, defense, the list goes on

then leadership, how will you create the leadership base?? buy in?? or each to their own??

I'm sorry to be the bringer of suggestions but watch and research star trek next generation (USS enterprise 1701 D) this series will help some guidelines to the core of your community, as civilians and "military" serve on the same ship

also not everyone is a fighter, a lot in our community (preppers) are willing to defend themselves, but not all are capable, so you need to think about that

I will look at your link and give you more opinion, but you have already had a ass kicking, but you worded your entry OK... but you should have "taken us to dinner first"

if your idea is extremely full of holes, expect worse


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Very good post bigdog, this is what I was hoping for, and if you can find them phenionx, I would much rather address the issues now that later, ok for the issues bigdog brought up.

1) What will you do with waist? the same thing we did with it in Iraq, it goes into halves of 55 gallon drums placed under the toilets and will be carried outside of the facility to be disposed of, tho we will dump it someplace instead of using the diesel to burn it. As supply NCO I was kinda required to be field sanitation certified.

2) Water ? this is what the wells are for, the perk test is required to get your location approved for a franchise and water rights would be something we would require you to clear up as well. this would be supplemented with a rain catchment system and if all else fails you could load some barrels or whatever on the buses and use a trash pump from whatever close water source you could find.

3) Siege ? Honestly a sieging force that could think about taking this facility would be to large to sit around for years and would be gobbling up the little groups of 20 or 40 people that will be all over the place. if they do want to stick around long enough to be an issue, this is not one castle, this is one link in a series of castles with hardened communications able to request assistance from other facilities. The kill zone is as large as possible and of course when SHTF there will not be anyone to complain when we make it bigger.

4) Crops ? This is not a hydroponics system, it is Aquaponics, No farmer worth a crap would not have a back up supply of seeds. The fish are kept in 3 different areas, actually 5 but only brooding tanks and fingerling tanks are covered. if the breeding pairs of animals die, you request assistance from another facility. Back up food would be stored in traditional prepper fashion such as Mylar bags in a 55 gal drum filled with rice and topped off with argon gas. all the basic foods instant potatoes, powdered milk ect.

5) The issue with the sick and infected would be addressed by an external perimeter of shipping containers with dirt burmed up around the backside to form a slope that would not hinder in any way the line of sight from the guards on the walls, this will double as a protective barrier that will help to prevent someone from trying to ram the facility with a truck or whatever. The side of the containers facing the walls will be cut out and replaced with stall doors that would not hinder the guards shots. The animals will be housed here as well as the tenant farmers that will take care of them and grow low height plants in the kill zone, thinking potatoes atm. IF the SHTF incident is a pandemic, everyone will stay here until they can be cleared and admitted inside, if someone catches something contagious they will stay here until it passes. this will further serve the purpose of screening the movements of workers, our assault teams, or anyone or thing we want to protect from sniper fire. since the enemy will not be able to see over the burm. 

6) Leadership? I kinda already went into detail on this in an earlier post but am open to suggestions.

7) As a supply NCOIC in Baghdad I can tell you that 99.9% of the supplies we got were from convoys, every damn day I was on convoys.

8) air attack ? I love microlights, every facility will have a small piece of road designated for them as an airstrip, the entire facility is a climate controlled greenhouse, can't really drop crickets on a greenhouse and have much effect, cocktails would burn some panels and have to be replaced.

9) be all end all ? Nah just the best defense an average person working a real job could afford. Basically this is for assholes just getting by that would like to protect their families.

pheniox

1,000 people total including children, actually not even that many since the children under the age of about 5 of the tenant farmers would be allowed inside until they were old enough to work the fields or showed exceptional skills. Each storage unit comes with a surcharge for each additional name that has access to the facility, including children.

one thing I do not think your considering is the entire facility is a disaster shelter, every storage unit is a disaster shelter within that disaster shelter, preppers are pretty good about having enough supplies to help them get by.

BTW for the non fighting types you have guard duty on the walls, as long as you can see, your qualified.

Tenant farmers are the members of the swarming mass lucky enough to be selected, that would like to get in but did not rent a unit.

I think I got all the questions.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Well, at least you got "moxey", and that is something. i havent clicked your link, but seems you are legit, so welcome. Thank You for serving this great Nation. 
Donnie


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

1.25 million, is this really enough?? 

lets get started on the video

wtf is wrong with you man?? are you feeling I'll after watching it, its almost like trying to track a strobe!!

I do like the concept, please post your computer render here....

to the actual design, using the walls as accommodation, what the???

and what you offer, 1.25 mil won't get much of a medical facility, let alone all the other offering

your study on castles is a little out to bro, no keep in the render, and its square, no fall back points, its just the wall, sorry but claiming combat vet you would have a knowledge of fall back points and combat lines... (there is more but I can't put it into words) 

but you think you can build a structure, thats 1 part storage, 4 parts fort, and 5 parts organic farm for 1.25 million, it may seem in your eyes a lot of money, but you won't get the land for that, then the factory to mass produce and repair the containers, the registration costs, taxes, then farm equipment...


I understand costs are less in the USA, than in my little hole, but jesus....

then there will be what you put into it, this I don't know, but the budget I seen is far too low to what you offer....

I do love the idea, and wish you a lot of luck, but if I was you, right now, today, research... castle sieges, death of castles, French castle design, us civil war fort design...

then research modern small arms, and anti tank weapons, and tanks... 

your idea grate, but it needs more thought, and my biggest issue is the low setup costs, even with 10 mil I don't think I could do it, remote, high, away from fault lines land, that's fertile, and has a clean water table won't be cheap, and you need a good road in and out, sorry bro I don't want to burst your bubble but honestly, the thought is good, the execution is a joke


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> 1000 people shiting in barrels sounds like a nightmare to me. Just sayin...


lol!!!!

I don't know why but I'm picturing the line after a mad dose of food poisoning


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

1.25 million is the first round of financing to build the test facility, the factory would be the second round once the idea could be shown IRL.

the render ?

I am not building a hospital, more of a nice aid station with a couple beds, most of the money in this area would be spent on basic medication supplies and bandaging materials, if you need more help than that there is not much anyone is going to be able to do for you.

the fall back points are your individual storage units, that hopefully you prepared in a logical fashion knowing this information, you fail to notice that with this design anyone shooting from their facility can hit damn near anywhere in the facility, very few places for a maruader to hide, and would have to run through multiple kill zones to get to them.

Land is about 2k an acre here, and I can get a 8X8X40' shipping container delivered to me for another 2k each, (port of houston) yes I can build the facility with 1.25 and have money to spare for testing. I posted links earlier that explain the makeup of the exterior wall composition and it will handle anything reasonable, do you have something that can kill tanks ? other than the standard Tannerite or thermite ? I am a general contractor currently and have done the math. And farms do not pay squat in taxes, especially organic ones, in fact the federal gov just approved another 300m in grants for organic farming. No I did not hire a marketing team to make a fancy video, but if you think, I did not think this out, your not thinking.

Anyway, other than the fact that you could not make the facility for 1.25 mil, what is the flaw in the plan ?


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

most camps across Iraq shit in barrels, then mixed in diesel fuel and a private that pissed me off would have to stand in the fumes stirring it until it was burned away.

might want to ask someone that was there in 03, 04, 05, before the luxury accommodations were ready and they had ran out of true suicide bombers.

Also this is the application of modern technology on medevil design, not the other way around.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Okay John, so you're basing your supply on convoys. Fine. That is assuming that you have other locations. Convoys take fuel. You will eventually run out of it, unless you're going bio. Even then it's limited. 

And I know this, as you should as well from playing in the sand, after a while, I'm gonna' clue in on your convoys and start taking them. At minimum, disrupt them. If your comms are in the air, I can capture them. "Hey guys, another truck is on it's way." So now you pour more and more resources into protecting them and create a vulnerability to your other locations. And as you pour more into it, you risk more. It's called a War of Attrition brother. You just keep pecking at them until they have nothing left, or have lost the will to fight. 

This ain't Iraq or Afghanistan. You can't just keep calling in troops to replace the ones you lost. You can't just keep trucking in supplies. Soon your trucks will be all but gone. How many times can you repair or replace them? A chopper gets shot down, a truck gets taken out with an IED, you call the motor pool and sign for another one. 

In this situation, where are you gonna get it from? How many loved ones are going to come back to the compound with bullet holes in them (draining your resources until they're gone) before they get all "Anti-War" on you? How many soldiers have we lost from harassing fire at FOB's? IED's on the roads? Hit and Run, Guerrilla attacks? 

When you have nowhere to pull additional resources from, you are living in a vacuum and the clock is ticking. Eventually, no matter how many of these things you have, you will suck all the air out of them. 

If we're living in storage containers and bug out locations, all you have to go on with is what you've stored up. And I'm going to assume that things have gone from bad to worse and there isn't much of the civilization we once knew, left. 

But once that's gone, it's gone. To re-new, you must have resources; Animal, Vegetable and Mineral resources. Like cows for leather, trees for wood, cotton for fabrics, ore, oil etc. You must have manufacturing capabilities. You must have tooling, machining and processing capabilities. What about medicine? 

What happens if someone blows the shit out of a half dozen of your storage containers in a suicide run? USS Cole comes to mind. Where are you going to get more? Now you have a huge hole in your wall. Two is one, one is none. 

I'm not saying that you don't have a great idea here. You do. But you need to know it's limitations. You need to understand the psychology of this type of living and how it affects people. Have you mathematically determined your sustainability based on the number of people you anticipate living there? For every person you lose to illness, injury or otherwise, how do you fill their void? How do you replace them? Who takes over their responsibility? 

But I would get very real, very fast and start looking at this with a dose of reality. I mean, I love my children, but I'm not afraid to admit that there are things about them are just kind of ****ed up. But I like the way you think!


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> 1000 people shiting in barrels sounds like a nightmare to me. Just sayin...


You guys were wondering on another thread here where you were going to get saltpeter to make powder after SHTF. 1000 people shitting and pissing in barrels can grow a LOT of saltpeter. Of course, some poor bastard has to spread it all out and then go carefully sift through it to separate out the saltpeter crystals from the piss and shit after a few days. Now just get some sulfur, charcoal and stale urine and you can make your own low grade black powder! With 1000 people, the stale urine part should be pretty easy to come by. :lol:


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

the render, the picture you flashed a lot in the video, 4 walls with a farm in the middle

medical facility = at least a ambulance worth of supplies with basic antibiotics and out of 1000 people I bet you could offer a discount to a nurse/RN 

OK, I will put a bulk of costing due to location (here shit land is $2 a acre, good land starts at $100,000 a acre, that's freehold)

the storage units are the wall, really that's the fall back point, I haven't seen the 1000 page document or the link to it, I will take the time to read it of you post it

so flaws

the biggest one is the wall, accommodation = primary defense = primary fall back with no escape if breached

tanks, and anti tank weapons, what you think they will not be around to potential enemies?? after shtf?? you have to defend against that

the square shape, is flawed in its design, been in construction you should know this, round is stronger

a keep = central meeting place, storage, security centre, basically the core of a castle, and the most important part (please research French castles)

and you don't need a marketing team, just watch the video yourself, get your wife and kids to watch it... 

I seen your leadership response, not the best in my eyes, I would have just gone "king" but all powers will be given to a council elected by the people renting, where in a deadlock the king has final say, with clear powers (but this is minor) 


OK, so you have the organic farm side sorted, but the business is also rental, there will be some tax backlash, but I don't know your tax laws on it

I would love to see more info on this but (I will make a new post)


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

bigdog, the only convoys would be emergency supply if something went wrong. The number of 1,000 residents is based on other peoples numbers of what an aquaponics facility of this size can produce, this is why I need a test facility to find out for myself before the plan goes live.

Additional bodies can be pulled to no end from the tenant farmer work force.

I am pretty sure I stated earlier that I would not waist the diesel to burn the poo, would just get it to a safe distance and dump it.

I am pretty sure I posted this link earlier for the first layer of the outer wall LINE-X Sprayon Bedliners, Protective Coatings, Truck Bed Coating, Floor Coating, Industrial Flooring

this is backed up by 10 inches of sand, anything that can get through that..... well yea we would have an issue but anyone else would already be dead, no my idea is not perfect, hell if you got a few mil to throw around you can get an apartment in a nuclear silo or whatever, but I think I have a damn nice product for normal people, and it is a hell of a lot better than any option I have seen out there in the price range.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

if I was to build/ design a facility like yours

I would start at the keep (the hub) and make this the focal point of the facility, this sucks up a lot of funds

then the first wall (keep your storage idea) but round, no square points, with "towers" built in (like a prison)

second wall will be shorter than the first, stronger than the first, for defense purpose only, (not. going onto too detail)

then a main road going in for logistics purposes

from that I would build the farm, livestock/orchard/ whatever on the middle area and your primary farm close to the keep

stock holding pens near the keep also

I just can't figure out how to convert storage containers into a living space... 

waste, would be organised into a composting system, on site, electricity would be geo thermal, fresh water would be like today's system... just cause the world has gone to shit, is no excuse to maintain a basic standard of living, more so when your focus is still on technology, "we have cameras but I have to travel for water and shit in a bucket" 

are you hiring people to cover clear skill gaps?? yet we have a secure comms system....

you have a good focus but some areas that should be important are dismissed as "it worked in the army" sorry but the army has a massive logistics network, where in a castle what you have is what you got and as a civilian I enjoy a hot shower, and a flushing toilet (even if it flushes backwards) all little "luxuries" that we all enjoy and in a community setting the gold standard....


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Render would be google sketchup

My wife is a nurse and basic medical supplies are not that much, yea doctors and nurses would be on the list of people who would get rental discounts.

If the shtf, where are you running to ? there are 2 buildings in my proposed model inside of the facility, those are the chow hall/meeting area/recreation center housing for farming equipment. And the medical facility/orphanage/machine and general repair shop. 

The thing french castles did not have were plenty of M-4's defending the walls with a lot of users that have not much else to do on guard duty other than look for enemy and practice changing out those magazines rapidly. No hoard of anything will make it through that kill zone and be coming over the walls. not sure how much strength you think I will gain by making the walls round but I do not want gaps between the shipping containers, they need to be bolted solidly in place through the framing. maybe it would better be explained by the fact that i will have hundreds of minikeeps, each one needing to be breached, while being defended by all of the others.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> I am pretty sure I posted this link earlier for the first layer of the outer wall LINE-X Sprayon Bedliners, Protective Coatings, Truck Bed Coating, Floor Coating, Industrial Flooring


this is a product not the 1000 page document you claim to have


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

John Oscar said:


> Render would be google sketchup
> 
> My wife is a nurse and basic medical supplies are not that much, yea doctors and nurses would be on the list of people who would get rental discounts.
> 
> ...


The French didn't NEED any of that stuff. They just surrendered. A white flag was the only armament they had...


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> Render would be google sketchup
> 
> My wife is a nurse and basic medical supplies are not that much, yea doctors and nurses would be on the list of people who would get rental discounts.
> 
> ...


and castles weren't used in Iraq where there are plenty of m4s

you don't have to defend your brief, there are a lot of questions, and a lot of scepticism, you have by choice posted this product, and as we are all potential customers, but shifting focus as this worked in Iraq, I would take more weight in rpd saying this worked in Vietnam


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

bigdogbuc said:


> The French didn't NEED any of that stuff. They just surrendered. A white flag was the only armament they had...


the French had the best castles in the middle ages

but funny they were all white


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

lol I have a thousand pages of notes, a thousand pages of documents would be a book, or a transcript of Bill Clinton explaining what the definition of is, is.

also my entire compound in Baghdad was inside of walls, crappy 1' thick walls but they were walls. I need walls, I do not have tanks to place at all the avenues of approach, and attack helicopters to answer the call.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

Choice of music + plus not so revolutionary presentation to your concept + didn't make it to any portion of it where it provided your credentials and expertise in this matter professionally.

With all respect John, I wouldn't put a dollar into this.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> lol I have a thousand pages of notes, a thousand pages of documents would be a book, or a transcript of Bill Clinton explaining what the definition of is, is.
> 
> also my entire compound in Baghdad was inside of walls, crappy 1' thick walls but they were walls. I need walls, I do not have tanks to place at all the avenues of approach, and attack helicopters to answer the call.


then why bring it up??

to me, someone claiming to have 1000 pages of info on something he is selling, would have a lot of pictures, diagrams, draft plans, personal notes, and other info regarding this topic


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

you want me to send you all of my personal notes I have taken for the last 4 months ?

Choice of music + plus not so revolutionary presentation to your concept + didn't make it to any portion of it where it provided your credentials and expertise in this matter professionally.

So you think the idea sucks because you did not like the way the video looked ? I could understand something like that if this was a marketing forum but really ?

And I happen to be quite proud of my credentials, I would match my NCOER's with anyone here.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> So you think the idea sucks because you did not like the way the video looked ? I could understand something like that if this was a marketing forum but really ?
> 
> And I happen to be quite proud of my credentials, I would match my NCOER's with anyone here.


You will find a lot of people, won't take you seriously if it looks like it was done with microsoft movie maker by a 12 year old.
It is hard enough to be supported when you look professional and well organized, but this looks, seems like a joke/scam.

Plus you are asking for 1.25 million dollars, and you don't even show your face, plus no commentary just splash text in slide show
format, not even footage. But getting back to your credentials...

What medals did you earn? What proof do you have? What is the name of your contracting company?
I mean you are talking it up so show your cards, don't just claim to have "badassary" prove it...

Otherwise to me you are just here with your hand out, blowing smoke.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Pheniox? What are NCOER's?

John,

We've already said we like your idea. Take this time to evaluate the criticisms and questions about your plan and see where you can improve it. That's all we're saying. Not one of us are bashing what is clearly your dream that you have staked so much in. These are hard questions that you'll eventually have to answer with your potential clients. Practice it here. 

Your frustration is showing which tells me that 1) This is definitely your baby and 2) You know in the back of your mind somewhere, there are some holes in your plan and things you didn't count on. 

Since it seems to pretty much be a consensus, perhaps look at producing another video. Get outside opinions before you post it, not ones from folks that will tell you what you want to hear because they love you and don't want to hurt your feelings. You're doing this for them, be willing to take a shot in the nuts to make it happen. We'll help you patch those holes the best we can if you let us. You may not always like what you hear, but we mean you no harm.

I think you'll find we're a pretty good group here. Hell, you should see how the Jehovah's Witness thread just spiraled out of control...unless you're a JW. And we're okay with that too. I'm Mormon. They like me just fine. 

I just want to know, and perhaps you can clarify because I'm sure I missed it; How much wold this cost me if I were a paying customer? If this was ready, and I found it, and there were still units available, how much would it cost? And how do you screen to keep the nuts out? What skill sets ARE you looking for?


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> also my entire compound in Baghdad was inside of walls, crappy 1' thick walls but they were walls. I need walls, I do not have tanks to place at all the avenues of approach, and attack helicopters to answer the call.


sorry I missed this paragraph, and I did not suggest you need such tools, I only suggested such tools will be used against you, as a compound you need a defense against it, accommodation + a few inches of sand with some steel, and a heap of m4s, maybe grate wile shit is happening, and since emp and financial collapse are your goals, do you really believe with all your research and ability it will be enough??

then what happens when you run out of bullets?? resort to black powder?? or what??

no offence but you seem to have taken a few points from a TV show, improved in some areas then forgot about history.....

the idea is good, the spirit behind it is good, but wishful thinking is no foundation to survive....

and don't get hung up on tanks, there are other ways to breach a compound, been a prison guard you would understand that...

good luck, you have floated a good idea, now refine it, I suggested already what history to start at, won't take more than a few weeks to look into for your purpose, if that's a little much.... then why go through all this effort unless this is a front for something a lot more sinister (like fraud??) as for one man 1.25 mil invested right is retirement


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

lol nobody here has donated a penny, if I was here for money I would have left long ago.

And I am semi retired, have a nice home almost paid for, a little nestegg, and plenty of toys that I am willing to risk in order to try and make this work.

Anyway, back to questions.

I just want to know, and perhaps you can clarify because I'm sure I missed it; How much wold this cost me if I were a paying customer? If this was ready, and I found it, and there were still units available, how much would it cost? And how do you screen to keep the nuts out? What skill sets ARE you looking for?

unit rental is $100 a month plus $50 more per additional person over 2, on day one, for a total investment of $100 you and your spouse have your bug out location taken care of, you can have the closets and spare bedroom back, and you can make whatever modifications to the unit you want within reason, estimated cost for a franchise would be about 700k, will not know for sure until the test facility is built. I have a long list of skills and point values assigned to each but it is 230 am and heading to bed so will look for it tomorrow. The only crimes I am concerned with are child sex offenders, most of us would probably do worse within a week of SHTF than the rest of it anyway. My head is bobbing up and down, got to crash, will talk more tomorrow.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> The only crimes I am concerned with are child sex offenders, most of us would probably do worse within a week of SHTF than the rest of it anyway.


worse.... worse? Isn't anything worse than a child rapist, next worse is someone that rapes a woman. 
Anyone that does any of that or... "worse" in any condition would win a brass trophy via weapon on hand.

I am still waiting to see your credentials, for you to reveal who you are. Even if you are a soldier doesn't mean you
know shit about engineering, or leadership, doesn't mean you aren't some whack job. I don't know you, all I know is
you keep pounding your fingers on the keyboard about your grand plans.

The more you talk the more I smell bullshit.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

so me its $250 a month, inor its $150 a month + his children that I bet will buy in too if that was the case

but $250 a month for a container placed next to the battle zone (wall) is what $3000 a year.... and you want funding to get it off the ground (that. is like paying rent in advanced) 

yet will accept outsiders, and I have to provide slave labor for when shtf, anyone is welcome before hand, and me paying my 3 grand a year to store another 2 grand worth of food and ammo, that I cannot guarantee will stay mine (food shortage, ammo shortage) but have to trust you will be able to manage the facility wile under constant threat from outside attack, where my storage container is the front line in any type of assault against us.... and I still have to shit in a bucket

is that it in a nutshell or am I missing something??


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

Phoenix you forgot the ocean front property in Kansas. lol


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

SAR-1L said:


> Phoenix you forgot the ocean front property in Kansas. lol


there is no place like home, no place like home


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

One thing missing from the whole thing...Zoning regulations. I am certain if you wanted to do this, you couldn't get past the zoning regulations.

Medical facilities need to be certified and have a practicing Dr in house, not to mention nurses, cleaning staff etc.
Educational facilities need to be certified and have teachers, security and cleaning staff etc.
Shops and sports, you can't expect to survive on "playing on the field" or "bartering for everything". Just wont happen.
Physical housing, for a family of 4, you would need (as a bare minimum) 75 square metres (roughly 800 square feet) to habit comfortably.
Waste - shitting and pissing into barrels isn't really an option, you would need proper sanitation which this doesn't offer. Extracting waste to somewhere else is fine, for the short term, but for 1000 families, you can expect to be shifting tonnes of crap daily. You will run out of places to take it fast.
The Farm, I am guessing you have done proper soil tests to ensure you can grow a variety of crops, which will survive, and feed 1000 families?
Security - Do you plan to have an armed patrol for the "town"?. If not, how do you plan to keep the place secure?
Policing - Read as above
Leadership - How will this happen? Without a working form of government it will be every man for himself. Will it be a democratic society? Despotic? Bureaucratic? Will it be a mayor for life? mayor for fixed term? How will this leader then be able to carry out any promises he or she has made?
Taxes - you can't expect to have a community without paying a local tax to pay for the police/fire services etc. 

$1.25 million will hardly make a dent. I admire the idea, but you should have put it at closer to $125million to get off the ground.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

nephilim said:


> ........


how much land would you be thinking bro?? and let's at least triple expected population to 3000 (1000 tenants, 2000 tenant "extras")

just hypothetically for the point of brainstorming


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

Work on 1/4 acre per person (not per family, but per person)
This would be enough for that person to grow their own crops to live comfortably. 
This would also be enough to accomodate a well per person which would provide enough water for that person to clean themselves and their clothes with, not to mention for drinking water.
This would also be enough to build a reasonable sized shelter for that person. 
This would also be enough to build a tool house / shed for storage of tools

So for 1000 people, you'd be looking at 250 acres to comfortably have enough land for arable farming and ensuring they survive.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

so half a mill in land min (judging by the min land requirement... that I think is a little low) then enough shipping containers to create the wall, then the modifications to create a very slight angle to create a circle (optional extra, as a box is planned) , and then all the other promised features in the video... not counting zoning issues, power, waste management, farming setup costs... 

the rent cash card should be considered, but if I'm paying for something to use, I better be getting my value......


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I don't know how John is thinking about charging "franchisees" for this idea but he's thrown around $700K to $1.25 mil.

Pick a state here in the US that you believe to be free-er than most. Red States if you will. 30-100 acres might set you back $75-$200. Recruit a few trusted families who have skills that you need and have like beliefs and split the cost of the land. Dig a well or two and put in some solar/propane etc. Each family builds their own small safe house that is heavily fortified. Easy to do for less than what John is asking.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Ok just woke up, have to go do an estimate in a little while so let me try and answer a few of the questions that were brought up overnight. 

First the list of needed skill sets and preferential points awarded to each is in the wife's car, and she is at work, so that will not be in this post.

Second hurting a child is an unforgivable sin, these people will not be allowed inside period, now I go through the list of remaining crimes and cannot think of any off hand I would not do to save my children if SHTF, if you can think of a few, let me know, but none come to mind. I am not against additional screening especially for mental issues but have not been able to figure out a way to check for those without violating HIPAA.

I was in the Army for 14 years, 5 years light infantry 11B and 9 years in logistics 92Y, yes I re-classed, I was medically discharged after injuries sustained in Iraq, yes if I would have fought I could have stayed but I did not want to go on as a broke dick. I am currently rated with a 70% disablility. During my time in the army I served in Infantry, artillery, air cav, contracting command, combat engineer, and military police units. My business degree is from a 2 year community college so if you want to look down on that I guess you can. I have owned a spray in bedliner distributorship so I know very well how to apply this product and it's anti-spalling properties in blast mitigation. I am a certified carpenter and currently own and operate a small general contracting company. As a hobby I sometimes buy storage units, seeing preppers try to turn these into bug out locations on their own is how I got this idea. I also worked for a year on Texas State Death Row, got fired for excessive use of force, this is the only job I have ever been fired from. The primary thing that qualifies me for this is the fact that I hold the patent, I thought of the idea, and I have the balls to sit here and take shit from people like you in order to hopefully improve my product and make the world a better place. I am also a male but not sending anyone a picture of my dick. I am in Livingston Texas, if you need further convincing of who I am, stop by. Might want to announce yourself tho because I also shot expert with every weapon I touched in the military from the 9mm to the Dragon.

Pheniox,

so me its $250 a month, inor its $150 a month + his children that I bet will buy in too if that was the case

would depend on the number of people but sounds good.

but $250 a month for a container placed next to the battle zone (wall) is what $3000 a year.... 

Once again sounds correct

and you want funding to get it off the ground (that. is like paying rent in advanced) 

That is completely up to you, and there are corresponding rewards for helping get this started, but honestly I currently have no plans of building a facility in Australia so unless you would just like to help get the idea started a donation from you would bring you no personal gain that I can see.

yet will accept outsiders, 

Huh ?

and I have to provide slave labor for when shtf, 

You will work or remove your lazy ass from the facility, most hard labor and ugly jobs would be done by the tenant farmers. Work for residents would be more like guard duty, taking classes, or tactical training. 

anyone is welcome before hand, 

As long as your not a child sex offender tho more restrictions are possible in this area.

and me paying my 3 grand a year to store another 2 grand worth of food and ammo, 

looks right

that I cannot guarantee will stay mine (food shortage, ammo shortage) 

If it came to something like that it would be a membership vote and that would only happen in an emergency.

but have to trust you will be able to manage the facility wile under constant threat from outside attack, 

you have to trust somone

where my storage container is the front line in any type of assault against us.... 

So is mine

and I still have to shit in a bucket

unless you want to pay for plumbing, yep.

is that it in a nutshell or am I missing something??

I think with the clarifications you pretty much got it.

Also

there is this thing called interlocking sectors of fire, I am not putting anything in the middle of the facility that would block this and take up valuable food production space. I have honestly considered this idea and it is not going to happen, if that is a game changer for you then so be it.

Nephilim, 

Medical facilities need to be certified and have a practicing Dr in house, not to mention nurses, cleaning staff etc.
Educational facilities need to be certified and have teachers, security and cleaning staff etc.

This is a farm and storage facility, I am not putting a hospital or a college in the middle of it, I will have space allocated for basic versions of these functions if SHTF and if that happens nobody is going to give a crap about zoning or certifications.

Shops and sports, you can't expect to survive on "playing on the field" or "bartering for everything". Just wont happen

We will have a small rec center and tons of books, if a money system is needed later it will be developed at that time.

Physical housing, for a family of 4, you would need (as a bare minimum) 75 square metres (roughly 800 square feet) to habit comfortably.

You can rent additional units with no bodies attached for $50 a month each, if you do not rent enough space for your family that is your issue.

Waste - shitting and pissing into barrels isn't really an option, you would need proper sanitation which this doesn't offer. Extracting waste to somewhere else is fine, for the short term, but for 1000 families, you can expect to be shifting tonnes of crap daily. You will run out of places to take it fast.

It worked for me for months at a time, and the headcount is 1,000 total including children and infants, final number will probably be more like 900 so i can take in infant refugee children. If you would like to have plumbing installed in your storage space that is an option we will offer, tho it is not a cheap one.

The Farm, I am guessing you have done proper soil tests to ensure you can grow a variety of crops, which will survive, and feed 1000 families?

Aquaponics does not use soil, and yes we will test all plants within reason.

Security - Do you plan to have an armed patrol for the "town"?. If not, how do you plan to keep the place secure?
Policing - Read as above

We will have an internal police force and assault force, all public spaces will be on video, another benefit of having clear lines of sight within the facility.

Leadership - How will this happen? Without a working form of government it will be every man for himself. Will it be a democratic society? Despotic? Bureaucratic? Will it be a mayor for life? mayor for fixed term? How will this leader then be able to carry out any promises he or she has made?

currently thinking about the 3 party system, the person who bought the franchise would be president until death then another would be elected, councel of 4, one elected leader from each wall, and the house, the one designated renter for each unit, this would be an inherited position upon death. Am still flexible in this matter to better ideas.

Taxes - you can't expect to have a community without paying a local tax to pay for the police/fire services etc. 

Everyone will have a job to do according to their preferences and skill-set, to much downtime is a recipe for disaster, to further this point classes for cross-training and survival skills will take place daily.

$1.25 million will hardly make a dent. I admire the idea, but you should have put it at closer to $125million to get off the ground.

That would put it out of the price range of the exact people I am trying to help.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Slippy

1.25 is to build the first test facility and put it through it's paces, 700k is a lot smaller franchise fee than a lot of companies charge and it gets you everything but the land.

And yes you could do that, and be picked off by snipers or over-ran by groups that would be specialized in taking out groups like that, but if it is your choice, good luck.

Ark, 

Interlocking sectors of fire are almost automatic in my design, it cannot not happen, you target the wall across from you. And the unit president would not be in charge of the police or assault force.

Have to go write up this estimate, will be back later.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Well - Not sure the product is for me, but always happy to see Livingston, Texas on the map! I lived in the greater Huntsville Metropolis from 1991 through 1996 - SHSU Grad. Beautiful part of the state.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Mods - Can we merge these two threads?

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/...mate-bug-out-location-price-storage-unit.html
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/preppers-retreat-lodge/9189-i-really-should-have-posted-here.html


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

John Oscar said:


> Nephilim,
> 
> This is a farm and storage facility, I am not putting a hospital or a college in the middle of it, I will have space allocated for basic versions of these functions if SHTF and if that happens nobody is going to give a crap about zoning or certifications.


Farm and storage facilities still require certified medical bays to treat people until paramedics arrive. Well atleast they do in the UK and someone has to be trained to a minimum of Advanced first aid (IV Drips, defibrilation etc). Granted Education not so much of an issue if it is just for Adults, but for children, having a basic version of these places just wont cut it. You want people that can think and learn properly.


John Oscar said:


> We will have a small rec center and tons of books, if a money system is needed later it will be developed at that time.


See this goes against the theory that many put into practice here. A money system will be required. Be it precious metals etc, you just can't think up this stuff on the fly, it has to be set out properly from the outset. I have nearly £3000 worth of precious metals in varying quantities depending on value, and it will be the monetary system I will use (and expect others will use) in a situation like this.



John Oscar said:


> You can rent additional units with no bodies attached for $50 a month each, if you do not rent enough space for your family that is your issue.


OK, so how big is each unit you are offering? Your average storage unit is 15 Square metres, so for a family of 4, you'd need 5 to live comfortably. So you can expect to pay out $250 a month for basic living quarters with no amenities. A fully fledged house isn't much more than that per month and comes fully prepped with water, heating and sanitation.



John Oscar said:


> It worked for me for months at a time, and the headcount is 1,000 total including children and infants, final number will probably be more like 900 so i can take in infant refugee children. If you would like to have plumbing installed in your storage space that is an option we will offer, tho it is not a cheap one.


Military sanitation is a bit different to Civilian sanitation. Plus in a situation like this, you need to ensure wherever you do dump the waste, it wont contaminate any water supplies you may want to use, or damage the soil you expect to live on. Also, the average adult creates 2lbs of biowaste a day, and the average child can generate 1.5lbs a day. So lets say 400 adults and 500 children (on the safe side), you are looking at 1550lbs of biowaste per day. This is not going to be fun to get rid of. And offering plumbing at an expensive cost isn't going to alay anyones fears.



John Oscar said:


> Aquaponics does not use soil, and yes we will test all plants within reason.


Aquaponics is good to a point. You can't expect to have every crop for every person to be grown from aquaponics. Corn or Wheat cannot be grown through aquaponics, nor can various grains, so you would need to do soil testing. Also, you need to think about protein as well. What about any animals?



John Oscar said:


> We will have an internal police force and assault force, all public spaces will be on video, another benefit of having clear lines of sight within the facility.


Big brother is watching...joking aside, what laws will these people follow? How will the laws be drafted up? How will the laws be ratified?



John Oscar said:


> currently thinking about the 3 party system, the person who bought the franchise would be president until death then another would be elected, councel of 4, one elected leader from each wall, and the house, the one designated renter for each unit, this would be an inherited position upon death. Am still flexible in this matter to better ideas.


 Can't complain at a 3 party system. But having someone preside until death could be a very very long time. The person could be 20 and not die until he is 90. Just throwing that out there,



John Oscar said:


> Everyone will have a job to do according to their preferences and skill-set, to much downtime is a recipe for disaster, to further this point classes for cross-training and survival skills will take place daily.


Good idea on the cross training classes, however assigning jobs that way wreaks of communism, in the effect of "do the job you are assigned, and that is it".



John Oscar said:


> That would put it out of the price range of the exact people I am trying to help.


Yes it would, however you've set a vastly unrealistic expectation and budget for this.

I do not mean in any way to pick holes in this thing, but it sounds highly odd and I doubt anyone could feasibly pull it off at $1.25 million.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

yes I understand that concept with interlocking sectors of fire, so when point 2 goes down 1 and 3 will cover the gap, but is that your only direct attack defence strategy??

thanks for clarifying my questions, the point about Australia, your pushing a franchise, so target market should be everywhere, including the UK 

so no slave labor?? just general work to benefit the community... 

there are concerns defense wise, and how the more prepared you are could make you worse off, (the question about food and ammo) 

you did point out somewhere in here about families will be accepted post shtf (I may have mis read it, this happens)

you float a new concept with food source and it is a good thing, your castle design needs improvement, and palming off issues like sanitation as a leader you should know better than anyone its a design issue, its defiantly a poor mans castle, and as such a lot won't sit well with me, and I'm asking questions as both a potential investor and as someone that really likes the concept of a ready made shtf community as numbers is the deference between life and death... 

and questions I ask, and see is a sound board for issues that have been thought of... and if you can't see these same issues now, or a solution for issues (by just dismissing it or redirect them) then your no leader bro, as you have worse unforseen issues in the future in a shtf scenario that need to be addressed

what you may not have noticed, you have been probed and failed from many, good luck with your project, I like it... work out these concerns please and refine it and again look up middle ages castles, they were built in a time of war, and issues and how they fell are very well documented

your market would "assume" you have thought of this, and a riot or a split will end your community, and possibly end you, and all over shitting in a bucket Lol (joke but highly likely)


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

GTGallop said:


> Mods - Can we merge these two threads?
> 
> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/...mate-bug-out-location-price-storage-unit.html
> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/preppers-retreat-lodge/9189-i-really-should-have-posted-here.html


I really hate when threads are merged. You get a page of posts where the OP is talking to himself it looks like and 3 pages later you get a bunch of posters asking questions where the OP doesn't answer because the answers were given 3 pages earlier, then I run across this post from the wannabe mod and I stop reading the thread. 
So my questions, which I won't get an answer to because thanks to the quoted poster I won't be reading this train wreck of a thread anymore, are as followers. How do you patent buying property and putting shipping containers on it for storage and dwelling? Because people have been doing that for years. I don't think your patent will hold up under a legal challenge. Next question. Someone mentioned you would need 250 acres. Do you know how much land is really involved with 250 acres? My family has farming roots, as I believe many others here have. The family farm consisted of 150 acres where the farm and out buildings were located. 250 acres. That's a lot of shipping containers. Basically we are talking a half a section. That's 1mile by 1/2 mile. That's a lot of shipping containers. I don't think your plan is gonna work.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> First the list of needed skill sets and preferential points awarded to each is in the wife's car, and she is at work, so that will not be in this post.


So you aren't organized enough to keep track of your own balls.



John Oscar said:


> I am not against additional screening especially for mental issues but have not been able to figure out a way to check for those without violating HIPAA.


According to yourself, you admit that some whack may just shoot up the place from the inside.



John Oscar said:


> I was in the Army for 14 years, 5 years light infantry 11B and 9 years in logistics 92Y, yes I re-classed, I was medically discharged after injuries sustained in Iraq, yes if I would have fought I could have stayed but I did not want to go on as a broke dick. I am currently rated with a 70% disablility. During my time in the army I served in Infantry, artillery, air cav, contracting command, combat engineer, and military police units.


Cute story... Papers please. You never answered which medals, you never provided your companies name, and you still are just gloating about your glory days, with no paper evidence.



John Oscar said:


> I am in Livingston Texas, if you need further convincing of who I am, stop by. Might want to announce yourself tho because I also shot expert with every weapon I touched in the military from the 9mm to the Dragon.


I got an A-Rank on my Sega, when playing Sonic the Hedge Hog... Once again show some targets, show your papers, screenshot or it didn't happen. Stop vomiting "Once Upon A Time". Your claims are worth less than crap for fertalizer.



John Oscar said:


> I have the balls to sit here and take shit from people like you in order to hopefully improve my product and make the world a better place.


Well considering you are trying to sell this to... "people like me"... your going to have to take quiet a load of shit, I just don't know where you are going to dump 1,000 buckets of shit a day.

Look I appreciate that you think you are ****ing Chuck Norris after a gene splicing experiment with Bruce Willis.
I am sure you could raise the money you need story telling on PBS about your Golden Years. But the fact remains
logistically your idea, while nice, has more holes than you have buckets for all the crap that will fill your Rubbermaid
facility.

Plus I still don't know WHO THE **** YOU ARE... nor have I seen any documents proving you are real.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

There was nothing constructive in the other thread, would be better to just delete it.

neph, not sure what you talking about with required medical facilities for a company to maintain but must be a british thing.

you want me to coin my own money ? I really think that would lead to tyranny, many societies used the barter system for thousands of years, some still do, I personally do not see the harm in going with that because the value of everything will be in massive amounts of flux, once the market stabilizes and you actually know more the value of items due to rarity I personally do not see the harm in letter the populace develop a system they think is best for the situation. If you think this is wrong and have a good idea please let me know, all I can do is tell you what I think, if you have a better plan I cannot guess at it.

Your next concern was about space, I will not know exact pricing until the test facility is constructed, I thought it best to guess the top end of the pricing so you would be happy if it dropped instead of feeling ripped off if it had to go up. Until a facility is fully stocked it will have to make a substantial profit, I will need backups for the backups, much of this money will be made by the facility pumping electric back into the grid, more will be made selling organic produce and fish that sell for a premium here. I do not know the SHTF date but would like to have the facility prepared as soon as possible. Once this is done the profit margins can drop significantly but a this time I do not know exactly how much, I cannot promise what I do not know. People making promises they knew they could not keep is how we got this president. I do not know how many angel investors I may be forced to take on, or venture capitalists, or what they will demand for financing, hell i wish I could find a partner that shared my vision and I honestly felt would put the good of the facility above profits but that is a pipe dream.

The next concern was biowaist, thank you for the stats BTW I did not know everyone produced 2 pounds of poo a day. I have contracted out a lot of aerobic systems, In a lot of areas including mine a leach field septic system on new construction in not permitted, the reason is the massive amount of wasted water involved with a flush tank system, it is the number one water eating thing in you home. I have a specially designed conex that will sit on the ground floor outer row that will be for the toilets, it took a bit of thought to develop a system that would allow the barrels to be removed from the outside of the facility but it is done, those barrels will never be inside the actual fortress, they will be taken care of by the tenant farmers. Yes I plan to have a 2 tier caste system, those that were smart enough to rent a unit, and the refugees we let stay around the walls to do the ugly and dangerous work like taking care of the fields in the kill zone, in exchange they would be protected by our wall snipers, and we would take care of their infants until they were old enough to work. None seem to realize the number of refugees that will be everywhere until killed off but the supply of tenant farmers would be massive and most would be turned away. This moves into your second question about other foods grown, the kill zone will be either wheat or potatoes preferably but of course will depend on soil, corn provides to much cover from our snipers unless you know of a miniature version. the tenant farmers will be living in animal stalls that I explained earlier, every facility will have breeding pairs of the basic food animals and if something happens to the animals in one facility it would be supported by another. Venturing away from the facility is a dangerous job that will be done by the tenant farmers, people are quite crafty when need be and the acquisition of hard to find things would often be performed by these individuals and exchanged with items we may have to offer such as food. These individuals could also be taxed if need should arise.

Big brother will definitely be watching all common areas and crime by anyone will not be tolerated. We will have elected judges, and all laws will be based on common sense and the US constitution.

Next issue was assignment of jobs, if you do not like your job, you train to do another and apply for that position. Have no idea how else this could work but if you have an idea please let me know.

Last concern was once again cost, you do not feel I could make this happen with 1.25 mil. Not sure how else I can ease that concern other than letting you know that I am a general contractor, getting the best prices and values out of my trades people is what I do.

Phen

Families with small children would have preference for becoming tenant farmers, this is not a life to be jealous of, they live outside the walls. The only ones that would be allowed inside are the infants and them only until they are old enough to work unless they show impressive skills then a rare needed one could be put up for a vote.

I am not dismissing anything other than the keep design, you are asking me a question as to how I would address the issue and I am telling you my idea, I am not the smartest person on the planet and am very open to new ideas but just saying this sucks with no alternative idea is not information i can use very well.

Arizona

Basic facility land would be 50 acres, if and or when SHTF we will make the kill zone (and our tenant farmer fields) much larger.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

If we're in a SHTF/WROL/TEOTWAWKI, currency is worthless. Or non-existent. I would charge ahead of time. Sell them outright. Off the top of my head, about $15,000 per person to raise what you're looking for.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

> those barrels will never be inside the actual fortress, they will be taken care of by the tenant farmers. Yes I plan to have a 2 tier caste system, those that were smart enough to rent a unit, and the refugees we let stay around the walls to do the ugly and dangerous work like taking care of the fields in the kill zone, in exchange they would be protected by our wall snipers, and we would take care of their infants until they were old enough to work.


 2 tier caste system? Like plantation owner and slave? That's what it sounds like to me. 
Looks like the forum has attracted another insane person. 
We really do need a vetting process for this forum.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Arizona Infidel said:


> 2 tier caste system? Like plantation owner and slave? That's what it sounds like to me.
> Looks like the forum has attracted another insane person.
> We really do need a vetting process for this forum.


There wouldn't be any of us left.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

bigdogbuc said:


> There wouldn't be any of us left.


There's a couple different kinds of crazy. But his kind of crazy is really out there man. I'm talking like Neptune.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Jebus your a hard ass SAR, I hope after you make me do all this work you at least chip in $10

I joined the army in 1991 at 18, previose jobs were HVAC and shoveling poo at a high end horse farm in Maryland.

Units in order

Infantry basic and AIT at Ft Benning E/332 is all I remember of the cadence.

Airborne school-Benning-last class to run in boots.

RIP-Benning

C/3-505 Ft Bragg My bunk was by the drunk driving counter sign

573rd PSC Ft Bragg, reclassed to supply, unit reflagged to 18th PSB first job in supply an E7 position as a corporal 2 up one down my ass.

HHT (Troop) 4th squadron 7th Cav Korea reflagged from Pellam to Gary Owen or the other way around, not sure, about 5 clicks from the DMZ and 200 yards downstream from a pigfarm.

HQ S-4 18th FA (field artilary) BN, took over as NCOIC when previous retired, coordinated several trips to the sand box, and an air assault school including housing food ect for Ft. Bragg

3rd SF Group for 3 months, attached to teach Malian army officials how to setup, maintain, and operate a UN supply depot, was one of the few non SF to get an award.

B-Battery 18th FA BN, A guy took my S-4 slot while I was gone, Won the brigade best of the best supply competition, it goes to 1,000 points, I scored a 960 beating second place over 100 points, they retired the big battery display trophy and let me keep it, tho they did not change the names for me =/ it is sitting in my closet. 

18th FA Brigade S4, pulled to standardize the SOP's for supply and arms rooms across the Brigade, was selected to represent Ft Bragg in all army best of the best supply competition large supply room category. Was going to ETS, full bird offered me a sweet job to reenlist. 

D Co 169 Engineer Battalion Sheppard AFB Texas, AIT unit, got bored and took over as training NCO and army liaison as well. My proudest accomplishment in the army happened here, I changed the Airbase training program to include hands on trades training with Habitat for Humanity. Was told we doubled there production of housing, and I logged over 400 hours working with them, was my first taste of construction management. As far as I know the program I put in place is still in place and has churned out hundreds of homes for needy families.

USACCK Supply SGT, (United States Army Contracting Command Korea) Seoul, selected for duty, Unit handled contracts for all of the Peninsula. My Issued Credit Card had a 250k monthly limit, was responsible for 4 satellite units across the peninsula, Osan, Musan, Pusan, and Taigu.

HHD Warrior Brigade Ft Polk, was only back in the states 3 months, signed a waiver and volunteered to deploy to Iraq.

HHD 519th MP BN Deployed in Baghdad, acted as HHD Supply Sgt and S4 NCOIC for a while, supported 4 attached units spread all over the place, tore up everything from the knees down.

Redeployed to FT. Polk and was medically processed from the army (honorable)

Worked for a construction General Contractor.

Quit to work for father in law at his auto body shop, Took over payments on spray in bedliner equipment that was losing $400 a month, within 3 months I was netting 2k weekly, in-laws got a divorce and new girlfriend realized how much money I was making and equipment lease had not been transferred to my name, equipment taken back.

Polunsky State prison, Death Row, also worked a postal route as a second job during this time but quit that due to falling asleep at the wheel. Was working mandatory overtime in GP 8 building (the bad building) one inmate Robert Roberts who had 21 staff assaults 3 with a weapon stated he was going to get this female Sgt if she came on the building for rounds, an hour later she popped in and he took off after her. I tackled him and drove my knee in his face 3 times, was massive damage, wired jaw shattered nose all that, he was the leader of the Tonga Warriors, they freaked out and threatened to riot and attack guards. Was easier to fire me for excessive use of force than deal with it. Is the only time in my life I have been fired.

Finished degree, GI BILL

Met father in law of one of the biggest developers in eastern texas while serving as judge advocate and service officer for VFW, went to work for him eventually managed several major construction projects.

Quit to run my own general contracting company, he is still my biggest customer.

Became concerned about economy, watched American Blackout, scared the hell out of me, developed and patented CSF, here I am.

Not sure how to attach images here but if you give me your E-Mail and people here trust you to verify my documents i would be happy to send them to you including DD-214, NCOER's and whatever else you think I am lying about.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Hey whatever you say your majesty.
WOW. What a ****in nutcase.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Thank you for the well thought out post, and adding so much useful information to the conversation.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

You want to reintroduce slavery. You want to be a slavemaster. You are a nutcase. No more information needs to be added.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

How is your option better than this?

Property Longlac / Greenstone $25,000 | houses for sale | Thunder Bay | Kijiji

For the price of being on your development team, someone can own this nice little property in the middle of BFN.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

You want to send women and children off to be slaughtered, You are a nutcase. no more information needs to be added by you.

Also sorry, seems I missed a couple posts, I do not want to sell the units outright, The people who can afford to buy these can afford other means of survival and are not the ones I am looking to help, tho I would be selling indepedently owned facilities, (no rental contracts) they would be part of the network and would be expected to assist in emergencies at another location and in turn receive help but what you would do with the units is up to you.

I love the idea of fruit and nut trees and bushes, my only concern is blocking line of sight if they are inside the facility.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Nice property for the money, wonderful gang resupply point imo, but hey if that is what your looking for I wish you the best of luck.

Will also address bullets running out and resupply. The point of an overwhelming defense is to prevent attacks before they happen, most that know what they are doing would look at this facility one time and head for easier kills, thus I would have lower bullet usage than most.

Currently thinking of calibers to have equipment and supplies for would be very limited allowing the purchase of more for these calibers. Every member would know what calibers we can reload and can either bring their own stuff or guns that use those bullets.

Suggests for top 4 needed ?


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> You want to send women and children off to be slaughtered, You are a nutcase. no more information needs to be added by you


Except this comment is slander. Nowhere have I made statements that I want women and children to be sent off to slaughter. You, however are a crazy person because you posted you wish to reintroduce slavery and you wish to be the slave master. 
You are a sick, demented, insane individual.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

So a group of 20 refugees comes to you, they are starving, you put your big bad gun in their face and tell them to move on and starve someplace else, they are dead.

They come to me, I give them an option, and offer to take care of the infants for them, but I am the barbarian ? They can walk off anytime they choose, and I will wish them good luck.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> So a group of 20 refugees comes to you, they are starving, you put your big bad gun in their face and tell them to move on and starve someplace else, they are dead.
> 
> They come to me, I give them an option, and offer to take care of the infants for them, but I am the barbarian ? They can walk off anytime they choose, and I will wish them good luck.


You will take care of their infants until they are old enough to work, then off to the slave ranks they go. I never said you are a barbarian. I said you were a ****in nut case.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

my turn... 

my biggest concerns 

a castle by design should dominate the landscape, and inspire fear to potential attackers

a keep by design is the ultimate fall back point, also is storage, government, court, a meeting hall, a focal point that gives pride and security

the idea of a single box wall (I have suggested how to remedy this little issue) means it can be stronger

septic systems, a composting system (again I suggest this)

power, geo thermal (you must have missed this)

building of government (again I gave a vague suggestion)

the core of the defense is accommodation with small arms, small arms have a finite amount of ammunition, and the very narrow defensive ideas, a wall covered in guns... no further thought, so if I was to attack this facility, 2/3 armored cars, the ones that transport cash will completely disorientate the defenders and cut off the wall from any resupply.... within a few weeks, since no sanitation, no running water, the people you want to lead will die, there is heaps of historical information available to you, that minimizes the chances of your fort becoming a mass grave, but hay what do I know I'm just a asshole in Australia giving FREE advice on areas that I may or may not already have a well thought out solution to


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

No I am a leader that will do what needs to be done to protect those under my care, those who were smart enough to rent a facility ! 

No way in hell I would jeopardize there food supply for anyone, but I would be decent enough to try and help all I can, if helping a few more stay alive benefits those under my care you better bet your ass that is what I will do.

I have told you what I would do.

So please tell me, 20 starving refugees come to you, begging for food, what will you do ?


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

I wouldn't make them and their children my slaves like you. You have a very elitist attitude, and are proving a personal theory of mine. Elitists are ****in nuts.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

John, 
Like I said, you are herding cats. 
How about we leave the apocalypse castle thing to J.W. Vohs Zombie crusade novels, and discuss something sensible like water storage.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

anyone else notice there has been a good 30-40 new topics since this one, from jury duty to politics, to even solar setups, even a opinion murder mystery... yet our salesman is focused on this topic (good on him its his baby, but I bet he could have made a comment or two on other topics??) 

there was another just like you, a us army officer (retired colonel) selling a fiction book, it went on for pages of pages, questions, probing, getting a opinion on what he wrote, after a wile, it was noticed that he could create new topics and be a member of this community (thats what we are) yet was focused on selling his book... 

I like the idea but I'm starting to really dislike the salesman

oh to slaves a revolution was created to end it.... you mean well and your trying to understand and trying to come up with "acceptable" solutions to a major issue...

but a personal question through history what leader inspires you the most??


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Fen

A 24' high apparently stone wall from a distance, with obvious castle construction, located on the highest terrain around probably would not allow anyone to see your keep, and in the space your using for a building to be your home I am growing tons of food.... I honestly do not know a better way to explain this, if you would like to buy a facility you can put in a keep if you like, but I am not going to double or triple the facility costs for appearance or to give myself a personal castle.

septic systems, a composting system (again I suggest this)

Sounds great, planned on having a version of this but not for human waste, what specific system do you suggest ?

power, geo thermal (you must have missed this)

Was planning on geothermal to help with heating and cooling but if you have an efficient way to use it to generate power in a standardized form, please let me know.

building of government (again I gave a vague suggestion)

And I am considering your suggestion.

"the core of the defense is accommodation with small arms, small arms have a finite amount of ammunition, and the very narrow defensive ideas, a wall covered in guns... no further thought, so if I was to attack this facility, 2/3 armored cars, the ones that transport cash will completely disorientate the defenders and cut off the wall from any resupply.... within a few weeks, since no sanitation, no running water, the people you want to lead will die, there is heaps of historical information available to you, that minimizes the chances of your fort becoming a mass grave, but hay what do I know I'm just a asshole in Australia giving FREE advice on areas that I may or may not already have a well thought out solution to"

What makes you think there was no further defensive thought ?

A 50 caliber sniper rifle with a trained individual manning it will take out most light armor, multiply this by 10 through training for anyone that shows the skill will force you to stay far enough away that I do not care about you, IR and HD cameras as well as a few drones to keep an eye on you would work nice, easy for a large facility to buy and maintain. You really think you can put a perimeter around a facility this large ? out of the range of snipers ? how are you going to feed these hundreds of people while you are sitting there ? while you are there I simply send the chit team in the other direction, and hope like hell you go for the peasants so you can be cut down with the snipers.

Old telephone poles can be purchased from most utilities for $1 per foot if they charge you at all, raised a few inches off the ground these make a formidable cheap vehicle barrier, caltrops are wonderful technology from the era you are focused on.

A 6' deep trench starting at the corners and moving diagonally in a straight line would not obstruct the view of my snipers, you would not be able to see them, and would allow my assault team to move in behind you undetected.

Perhaps if needed I decided to take on the most powerful gangs as trading partners, how much value to them would your armored cars and small group of odiously well armed and supplied group be ? Hmm.... wonder what I should charge them for your exact locations ?

I do not need regular resupply from the outside, this system is self sufficient and off the grid, my peasants are armed, perhaps I send them to move in behind you ? they have already picked the countryside clean and stockpiled the available goods in their stalls or traded with us for what we needed. maybe they take your yummy self before I even get a chance, especially since there infants are inside the place your trying to attack. Anyone can pull a trigger, does not take a hell of a lot of training to know how to sight in a target.

Anyway, yea I have thought about defense, in fact I personally think that is my strongest point by far. And I never said you were not from Australia, or charging me for the advice


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Are you the lord Jesus Christ?


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

"I definitely think you ****ed up when you brought up the caste system. What stops your tenant farmers aka slaves from hitting you from within? Or revolting? Are you gonna order to snipers to take out their very livelyhood.."

The fact that their children are on the inside of that wall and we are the only ones offering them anything other than starving to death, and they will be searched before the very few with duties inside the wall come in or out, (prison guard flashback)

Phen, I have posted on other threads and received likes for those posts, I am putting a lot of thought into my replies because I really want to pick up anything of use, I am not a very fast typist so it takes me a while to write these long ass thought out posts, i am trying to not jsut write teh first thing that pops in my head, I am considering your opinion and giving you honest answers, perhaps you not taking the time to consider my replies ?

George Washington.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

There are more than 300 million people in this country. How many do you think will knock? 
It's also going to be like a reality tv show. Nobody ever gets along well.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Are you the lord Jesus Christ?

No, but I do kinda look at myself as more of a modern day Noah, the difference is I am trying to build more than one ark, to save more than just my family, and God does not talk to me :sad:

Proper sanitation uses a lot of water.... I could put in flush toilets if you had to carry the water from the hand pump well yourself, would prevent the waist of gallons every time someone has to pee.... I really like that idea, thank you.

Those that cannot get along will be voted off the island.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I got suckered into this post and thought I knew better. Agree with paraquat, posting mil duties does not mean you are true. Not saying you are not, but we all know lots of folks went into the mil to get out of jail or prison. Mil time does not give automatic trust. Especially repeated reference to same. Never been but guys I know who have been say the same. jmho.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> Are you the lord Jesus Christ?
> 
> No, but I do kinda look at myself as more of a modern day noah, the difference is I am trying to build more than one ark, to save more than just my family, and God does not talk to me :sad:


HE talks to you, but you do not listen or hear! Maybe you should try talking to HIM!!


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

do you have access to the 50 cal rifle?? and the funds to have a store of one of the most expensive ammunition calibres in the world?? 

I gave you a simple version to breach your fort and now after repeated concerns about the primary defense you now give me other options/layers... 

never complained about my location, you did

the largest city close to me has a population of 1.1 million, so its more likely this basic defense will work for me

there are geothermal plants in a low scale setup operating in Canada and the USA as we speak, the technology exists to generate enough power.... (you have a patent why not use those contacts to find other systems) 

the more we ask questions the less answers and more sarcasm we get... and you run a business.... 

and the response on a forum, if you don't like it build your own....

I never said I didn't like the concept I'm just seeing issues (like others) and wanted a response that satisfied these issues

but a keep is a lot more than one thing, yes it increases the cost, uses valuable land, but adds a lot more ability to your structure

hey one second I was under the impression that the storage facilities have no windows, how are you to use this firepower?? (my thoughts was 3 containers high, a rifle or 2 a container = a wall of contiuious fire, even with muskets


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

skrew

I have no clue what else to say on that matter, what proof did every other member of these forums provide for you ? how many personal documents are they offering to send you ?

phen

you gave me a scenario and I explained why it would not work, if you have one you think will work please let me know, I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to attack this place then the best way to cancel that attack, it is very possible I have not thought of the best way to attack it yet, would love to know so if I do not have countermeasures currently I can develop them.

I will look into the geothermal plants but the expense will probably be an issue

"the more we ask questions the less answers and more sarcasm we get... and you run a business...."

the constant insults, belittling, name-calling kinda wears me down, but will try to do better.

the walls are solid and continuous, nothing on the outside to designate floors or best places to shoot, defense is from the top of the walls, from traditional defensive positions.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> Are you the lord Jesus Christ?
> 
> No, but I do kinda look at myself as more of a modern day Noah, the difference is I am trying to build more than one ark, to save more than just my family, and God does not talk to me :sad:
> 
> ...


Why not just tie em to a post and give em 30 lashes? Instead your going to slaughter women and children? That's what you told me right? You 
Said I wanted to slaughter them because I opposed your idea of making them slaves. But if you "vote them off the island" that's what you will be doing. Slaughtering them. Isn't that right Mr. Chairman? I was wrong. Your not ****in nuts. Your a ****in phsyco.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Never said I was voting either way, but if the guy is a big fat loudmouth constantly throwing his weight around calling others names, and pointing guns at people.... yea would probably send him packing.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

John you don't want wet poo. You want it to dry out as quickly as possible so it decomposes. You should dig a hole which attaches to a methane holding tank. Projects in China and India have communal toiiet areas. The poo decomoses and produces methane that can be used for heating or flame production for things like cooking. The biomass remaining after decomposition can then be used as black soii. If urine and feces is kept seperate - easier for males - the urine turns into ammonia botha fuel and a fertalizer. The black soil can be mixed in with other compost materials to create humanure. This is the ideal closed system for secure human habitation.

It is the ideal although western society has stigmatized human feces but feel comfortable with the widespread use of ursine and bovine feces for whatever reason. Oddly they dump their poo into their water supply after pumping it full of toxic industrial chemicals..

human feces methane production - Google Search

Water mixed with feces will turn into blackwater the last fricken type of water you want anywhere near you. Blackwater is as nasty as it comes. If you want to keep people away just make moats of blackwater.

By blackwater I don't mean dirty water I mean water that has mixed with human waste and has stagnated and grown death.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I have stayed out of this so far, but here's what I see.
You want to set up some kind of communist utopia with you in charge. You have multiple posts in this thread that spell it out quite clearly. Your answers to the leadership question were eye opening. All I can say is - Friendly fire isn't. Your own "lower caste" people would most likely take you out after they get tired of taking orders from you.

You may, or may not have been in the military. Anyone who has been in the Field Artillery would at least know how to spell it. FWIW, I spent some time in HHB, 46th Field Artillery Group.
I'm also a quailified shit burner (Vietnam 1969-70). Our 180 man company could turn out a serious amount of shit. And you are talking 1,000 people? You seem to think that instead of burning it you are just going to have some lackeys tote the shit cans outside the perimeter and dump them? Oh, yeah, that will be real good for public health. And if a few of them get picked off by bad guys while outside the wire pretty soon you are literally going to be swimming in shit.

You mentioned holding the positions of Judge Advocate and Service Officer for VFW. What Post?

But the biggest fail of your whole "plan" (assuming a con job is not your actual plan) is this - "You know, there are times when I'm sorry the word "defense" was ever invented. From the Great Wall of China to the Maginot Line, nothing, anywhere, ever has been successfully defended." Gen George S. Patton, Jr.
A determined enemy can turn your storage container "fortress" into a death trap.

Nope, I'm sorry, but to me all this sounds like wishful thinking. You may be serious, but I don't think it is going anywhere.


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## Reptilicus (Jan 4, 2014)

I haven't read every post in this thread because I have a life but the ones I have read keep giving me the same vision, and for those of you who are familiar with "The Walking Dead" should understand this. "The Governor" and his Shangri-La!


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Reptilicus said:


> I haven't read every post in this thread because I have a life but the ones I have read keep giving me the same vision, and for those of you who are familiar with "The Walking Dead" should understand this. "The Governor" and his Shangri-La!


Damn. Good catch Reptilicus.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

VFW post 8568, had to go get my hat from the truck =/ have not been back for a long time tho, got sick of the WW2 guys and the Vietnam ones going at it, besides they would not hire any ladies for the bar under 50 and or without a better mustache than me.

And you may be right about my plan, it is kinda how I feel about the options to my plan /shrugs 

I honestly think it is the way to go, it is what I was put here to do, and I will get it done one way or the other.

BTW, you do not need to rent from my facility, you would rent from the closest one to you, or hell buy a franchise and you will not have to worry about a governor. Not sure what I can say to alieve your fears, but every place needs a leader and after I spend every dime i have and may ever have into this idea I really do not plan on taking orders from some guy with a cool $100 invested.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Reptilicus said:


> I haven't read every post in this thread because I have a life but the ones I have read keep giving me the same vision, and for those of you who are familiar with "The Walking Dead" should understand this. "The Governor" and his Shangri-La!


I was thinking the "majority leader" in falling skies (charlstown sp?)

control the population with food and become a dictator, but giving this guy credit, he is still sound boarding, most would have given up and resorted to piss poor name calling by this point


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

James m said:


> There are more than 300 million people in this country. How many do you think will knock?
> It's also going to be like a reality tv show. Nobody ever gets along well.


I'm sure the right despot will unite some, Saddam Hussain done it, Hitler done it, all it takes is fear and a promise of greatness to unite a population 

there won't be a million followers, 250000 maybe, even 100000, my point is expect the unexpected


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

John Oscar said:


> the walls are solid and continuous, nothing on the outside to designate floors or best places to shoot, defense is from the top of the walls, from traditional defensive positions.


sorry was out and about before, I hope to god you have thought of at least overhead cover for the poor suckers defending your wall


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Let's bring this back to reality with a little math. In a previous post, you stated that your little shipping container compound was going to cover roughly 50 acres. You have stated several times that you want to pack roughly 1000 people into said compound. That is population density of 12,800 people per square mile. (640 acres per sq mile / 50 * 1000) For comparison, Chicago, IL has a population density of 11,868 people per square mile.

List of United States cities by population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, you are going have 1000 people jammed into an area roughly the size of 10 city blocks in Chicago shitting in garbage cans, surrounded by slaves that hate them for making them slaves. I cannot see what could possibly go wrong.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

lol good post inor, personally I think the peasants would be damn happy to be there, if they are not they can leave, and I think I found a solution for the poo, stay tuned.

Well Will found it for me.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Yes, slaves always love their master. That's why they fought so hard for the confederacy and never ran off. Phsyco.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Oh forgot to tell ya, you're never going to succeed with this business plan, but go ahead, it's going to make me very happy when you're sick ass loses everything. Here's the thing about your idea ( which your already changing) and a patent. Change a couple things and it doesn't fall under your patent. That means no one intelligent enough to pull it off will buy one of your franchises. And I don't think you really have a patent anyway, because you are already changing your plans, so that means your patent no longer covers your idea. :lol: You really are a sociopath.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Arizona Infidel said:


> Oh forgot to tell ya, you're never going to succeed with this business plan, but go ahead, it's going to make me very happy when you're sick ass loses everything. Here's the thing about your idea ( which your already changing) and a patent. Change a couple things and it doesn't fall under your patent. That means no one intelligent enough to pull it off will buy one of your franchises. And I don't think you really have a patent anyway, because you are already changing your plans, so that means your patent no longer covers your idea. :lol: You really are a sociopath.


I think (well under the impression) that the patent is the application of a ballistic material to reinforce shipping containers

as you can not patent a complex concept like this, copywrite maybe...

but this needs clarification (oh I know I'm feeding him but its proving to be very enlightening... as if I ever had the millions needed to create this, I know the mistakes not to make  )


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Ok Arizona, I am about tired of your half witted idiotic attempts to put me down. I am actually trying to gain something from the smart people on this site and your just not making the cut. 

I had hope for you for a while but now your just annoying, you just can't fix stupid. Despite knowing this I have tried to put on my dunce cap and see things through your eyes but it is just not working. Apparently posting anything beyond duh you suck is above your skill-set. 

After reading your medication bottles 1,000 times, I would at least have hoped that you would have learned to spell the word Psycho correctly, especially since it is one of the few words you know. 

You appear to me to be a loudmouth bully and I am about tired of being on the receiving end of the shit spewing from your head.

Where exactly have you seen a patent with a plumbing plan ? Holy dumb ass batman !!!

Phen

The patent is between myself, my lawyer, and investors, you are none of those 3 thus it is none of your concern. Your idea with the keep and storage container walls would not violate it as long as you did not try to rent storage space.


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

I am surprised, if this is your baby, that you did not know about the basics of human waste which is what you plan to be shifting and claim to have shifted in the military. Everything I've found is online, I am no bio expert, just found what I did with a quick google search. 

Also going through the US Patent office, I have found no patents to do with shipping containers as habitable spaces, or as use for farmland or agriculture structures. 

Something is missing here. Send me a patent ID number, can be via PM, and I will check its legitimacy. I have no interest in patenting the idea or anything close to it either, I am just geniunely curious about it.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

John Oscar said:


> Ok Arizona, I am about tired of your half witted idiotic attempts to put me down. I am actually trying to gain something from the smart people on this site and your just not making the cut.
> 
> I had hope for you for a while but now your just annoying, you just can't fix stupid. Despite knowing this I have tried to put on my dunce cap and see things through your eyes but it is just not working. Apparently posting anything beyond duh you suck is above your skill-set.
> 
> ...


Sorry I missed out on this thread. Seems to be a bit interesting. John. AI isn't a bully. A bit opinionated yes, got a mind of his own yes, doesn't mind telling it like it is yes. But a bully, not.

And no I don't think it's very nice of you to back handedly call him a psycho. At least be a man enough to say what you mean.

AI you are 100% right about him losing his A - - when someone makes some minor changes to his concept. I doubt he'll get a patent as what it seems like he's describing is not much different that what a very small town is set up like and I doubt if that can be patented since it's been around for thousands of years


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

patents are for "inventions" and such, and I'm a lot out of date to the law but you only need 85% of his idea to market to void any legal action from plagiarism

so are we talking one patent or a lot of them (just curious) 

the use of the ballistic product on shipping containers to add a extra layer of armor would have to be one, as using a product to create another product is something one will patent, then maybe the design of the facility, but that's a copyright issue, as no working prototypes and its just on paper 

misdirecting questions is what's bugging us, you could have been very vague on patents issues (or pending) like its on some of the design features... 

the business idea can't be restricted in a capitalist society, but the brand can, but that's copyright as well...

I would love to say throw a dog a bone, but even the "Google sketch" of what this looks like hasn't been shared after asked (well i asked for the render but hey) then now after repeatedly been asked and argued about sanitation you're actually looking into it (I will throw you a bone here just cause I'm nice and all, AUSTRALIA as in .com.au for this issue, its not perfect but its one of the driest places on earth, hint 2 outback Australia) 

and then leadership issues that your now addressing (what's wrong with us history for your foundation?? I like the British base line myself with a few mods) 

look at the holes we have filled your idea with, some are urgent, others not so bad, and redo that entire part of the design, 

I have not failed. I've just found 10,000
ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison


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## Bocephus (Jun 13, 2014)

John Oscar said:


> Ok Arizona, I am about tired of your half witted idiotic attempts to put me down. I am actually trying to gain something from the smart people on this site and your just not making the cut.
> 
> I had hope for you for a while but now your just annoying, you just can't fix stupid. Despite knowing this I have tried to put on my dunce cap and see things through your eyes but it is just not working. Apparently posting anything beyond duh you suck is above your skill-set.
> 
> ...


Arizona has been busting my chops too since I joined the forum - don't take it personal and just use the ignore feature of the forum to ignore him. I looked at some of his other posts, he's an antagonist.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Maybe i should not post stuff at 2am.... thought I found another cause to work on and got carried away, anyway after 20 posts of **** you psycho it was getting old.

The patent is provisional, I have 10 months left on it before I have to get a non-provisional since people seem to be concerned with it. I have had it looked at by several people an it is solid, but hell if one of you work at the patent office I will show it to you. The idea that someone would examine it and try to find a workaround to steal the idea does bug me tho.

I came here to get ideas to improve the design, if I found people that thought it was a good idea and chipped in a couple bucks to help make it happen, great, the fact that not one donation originating from anyone here has been made, and I am still here should be proof of that. Coming to this site has been a success, I got some useful information, realized that a lot of people are a lot more hung up on the leadership structure than I am, and will soon solve the my poo issues thanks to Will. If a better way to do something is found I will definitely use it, even if making the improvements leads to 2 pages of attacks. Yes the video is being redone BTW.

I think this is my calling in life, this will be my immortality, my contribution to humanity, the way this one little person in Livingston Texas can save tens of thousands of lives, and if not at least make quality healthy organic food more affordable for all.

When I see something that needs changing I try to change it, if something is broke, I try to fix it, I do not just talk about it if there is something I can do. I have found what I can do, and I am going to do it.

Phen

I told you the program I used to do all that work, I did not know you wanted me to hand you all the work it took me weeks to do, why ? Seems odd since you seem to only want to build the same thing they have been building for hundreds of years anyway.

Anyway, I have got some good ideas, so am willing to take the constant abuse, carry-on.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

How much would it cost to own one unit for a married couple - no kids? So far I see rental - I want to own my place.
I also want to own my food, water, ammo and guns. That is the only way I can be free and have my right to exist. If I am dependent on the facility then the facility controls me.
I also want a "safe room" underground with at least two exits - underground tunnels. The aquaculture system that you are talking about is fine for fish and veggies but will there be acreage for cattle, pigs, sheep, chickens and ducks? Will there be smoke houses to process meat or are those things up to the individual?


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Paul

****Right now in the primary design there are no plans to sell a unit, the only way I can see to make that happen is if I were some asshole looking to take the money and run. This facility is going to require upkeep, upgrades as technology allows, circulation of stored supplies, I do not know when the SHTF so I have to plan for the future. According to the reward on the site a donation of 10k would be quadrupled and applied to rental fees, if that is your choice and would take care of you and your wife for 8+ years.****

EDIT- I have thought about the previous paragraph, I started looking at the anticipated numbers on the sale of produce, fish, small markup from anticipated sale of items from website and storage fees of those shipped directly to the facility and modifications that would be sold from the website as well. I could sell a unit for 10k, this would become your personal property but would still get the same external maintenance the rest of the facility would receive, (cannot have weak links). Pricing would be set at 10k for one unit for 2 people, each additional person would be $2,500 max 4 people per unit, each additional unit with no more people is 5k. You should be aware that these units are small, only 8X10. More than ever you should read and take seriously the following paragraph. I personally would not invest this kind of money unless I could see the facility in person. If someone here would like to be a junior partner in this project and shares my vision, your buy in amount would be in a separate account and require both of our signatures to make a withdrawal. Even with this you should understand the profits for this company for several years anyway would be re-invested to create more facilities and improve the ones already established. Of course any partner would have full access to the books and input for any decisions made, especially the location of the next non franchise facility. END of Edit

Honestly unless you have that kind of money laying around I would not do it though, there is a very good chance I will fail. I am going to work my ass off to make it happen and probably put my family in debt for life but this is my dream, and I am willing to risk it. I personally know me and my abilities and am willing to take the gamble because of the potential benefits, not only for me, and my family, but for my country, but there are no guarantees.

Anything you put in your unit is yours, the law is the US constitution and common sense, I cannot guarantee that I will not be outvoted, facility owners will not be kings, I can say it would take a 2/3rds majority vote to do something like pull resources, and I can also say that my vote would be no.

As for underground shelter the best idea I have been able to come up with is to bury 10' corrugated pipe the length of the inside perimeter, under where the roadway would be, there would be entrances and exits at the corners of each wall, this would be very temporary shelter though, the logistics involved with keeping 1,000 people underground for more than a day or 2 are astronomical. The outside wall can handle just about anything thrown at it, and the fortifications within your unit are completely up to you, personally I view them more as hundreds of private safe rooms.

As I stated someplace, there will be an additional single file perimeter of shipping containers approximately 50 yards from the outside walls, dirt will be piled up against the backside to form a slope that would prevent marauders from using them for cover and provide protection for the refugees, and livestock living there from most things, especially sniper fire. The refugees will work the fields in the kill zone under the protection of our wall top snipers and video surveillance to earn their keep. We will have basic breeding pairs of most food animals at every facility to start food production of those animals if needed, if something happens to the breeding pairs then more can be requested from other facilities. 

If someone wanted to reserve one or more of those stalls for their personal animals it would be an additional small charge, maybe $25 a month, the reason for this is I would want to protect as many refugees as possible, especially those with infants and using all the space allocated for them, for personal animals, would limit this. You would have to maintain the animals yourself or pay a refugee to do it for you. They will maintain the public animals as part of earning their keep.

Since the facility is a greenhouse something like a smokehouse would also be located in this area, and it would be public property for those within the facility.

Since many seemed worried that the refugees would become slaves or revolt I should probably go into more detail about them. They will have guns, their own police force if they want, and any children under the age of 5 would be permitted inside of the facility for care until the refugee could become stabilized or until the age of 5, this is the option of the mother and a service provided to help them, not to indoctrinate them. all refugees will be searched coming into and exiting the facility and this traffic would be kept at an absolute minimum, they cannot have a weapon inside the main facility. I anticipate and would encourage these individuals to form a medieval type of community around the facility, much like hundreds of years ago.

I should also include that once SHTF money would be worthless, thus your rent useless, if you are renting a unit when SHTF that unit is yours until it is no longer needed. If something happens to you the unit goes to your next of kin at the facility or whoever you designate. This could include a relative or friend in the refugee area.

This thread was getting huge so I deleted a few of my useless posts, realized someone had asked what an NCOER was, it is a Non-Commissioned Officer Evaluation Report, basically it is your job performance rating while you worked at a location in a leadership position and highlights things you did well and poorly, it is an official federal document and commented on as well as signed off by several of your superiors.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

as I said man its a good idea, that as you know needs improving

just with all these pages of "sound boarding" you would have at least another 2-3 pages of notes to research

but I hope we agree, you need more land and you need more info on actual castle design...

but from this extra notes for me (again I have a similar dream but I would love to fund it myself, don't know how yet and most likely never get it of the ground)

basic infrastructure, high on the list, thats internal roads, water, waste, rubbish management

the castle, OK wall only is your idea, a keep doesn't have to dawf the landscape, its nothing more than a central building, for government, health, storage, meeting, court, even the security and communications hub, use extra containers if you must

the other thing more land (try and get as close to the 250 acre mark)

design a outer wall (in between walls is the extras, like livestock, fruit, firewood, and a field for your "slaves" accommodation)

look up guard towers

now I bet you are 100% committed to this

as soon as you can, get some version of CAD that can plan large structures (even gaming cad) and play around with it

if you have a few trusted mates, (and using gaming cad) try and simulate a full scale attack where you're the attacker, this is very very hard but if you can do it, you will benefit from it

keep playing with the idea, and do what your doing but please draw up some plans and give us a nosey, see what its designed to look like

to help you on your way I found this

TimeRef - Medieval and Middle Ages History Timelines - Episodes of Medieval History

far from perfect since we live in a modern age, but with a modern twist, larger scale and you will have one hell of a fort

but my largest suggestion about leadership, from what you have posted, your no leader, sorry man but your not, focus here in a way for someone to lead where you have a bit of weight, or no matter what you will fail and like Obama you will face enemies from outside and inside

oh like any sound boarding, there should be thousands of points of ideas, good on you for sticking to it and feeding it, look forward to seeing solutions to these problems in the future


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

oh to the document, since you mentioned the fact you have one, it ticked my curiosity and since it was mentioned I naturally assumed it was available on the internet for speculation

and I said if you take the time to share them I would take the time to read them, the actual design and what the design will look like interests me, and yes I would base my design on a proven in battle method, with a extreme modern twist, and like you I have been looking into shipping containers as a building base for a wile now (a high rise has been built in Brisbane using containers) 

but don't worry about me stealing your idea, the wall acting as accommodation really doesn't float my boat (good idea to maximise space tho I give you that) 

your farm won't work too well in my location choices (climate) but you have thought of a way that works well (and is on my to research more list) to see if there is a way

but history is your friend,  and if you haven't noticed I'm actually picking some things up (and thanks for clarifying the nature of this)


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Just for you and your garbage cans John Oscar:


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Oh I'm hurt. The wannabe slave master doesn't think I'm smart. And the guy who introduced himself by starting a thread about his hatred of the man has ignored me. Oh huh no. What will I ever do. 
Hey, Chairman Mao, does your patent include slavery?


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Arizona Infidel said:


> Oh I'm hurt. The wannabe slave master doesn't think I'm smart. And the guy who introduced himself by starting a thread about his hatred of the man has ignored me. Oh huh no. What will I ever do.?


have a beer and go on a murderous rampage, just have a good scape goat lol


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Phen

In a true SHTF situation I would take all the abandoned land around me that I needed, burn down the structures and add it to my kill/farming zone, if the land was not abandoned I would either wait for the residents to be killed off, flee, or want to barter with us for it then burn down structures ect.

If I put in another wall on the farthest perimeter of my sniper range or anywhere near that it would only serve to provide the enemy with cover to shoot and move from. I will run barbwire out there to keep my animals contained though that fence would be well inside of sniper range encase someone tries to shoot one and pull it out of the field. I do have another wall kinda to keep the refugees safe from sniper fire but that is close to the facility and more of a berm pushed up against the backside of a single row of containers so it will not provide any cover for attackers.

On the infrastructure my weakness was sewage and I know what to do to fix that, I am working on the plans to implement it now.

As far as the keep is concerned I do have 2 much smaller buildings on the inside in my design, the wall is what will inspire awe and fear upon the surrounding landscape.

I have a tower at each corner, the bottom half of 2 of these towers are freight elevators, the other 2 are stairwells. They are 40' containers stood on end and the top of them would be fortified guard positions.

I really should get CAD, sketchup was free and very user friendly. My next video will have a walk through tour of the facility in it.

"but my largest suggestion about leadership, from what you have posted, your no leader, sorry man but your not, focus here in a way for someone to lead where you have a bit of weight, or no matter what you will fail and like Obama you will face enemies from outside and inside"

I know a few people that would be coughing coffee out of their noses at this comment, perhaps things do not relay very well in typed print, especially when I am trying to request ideas from people I have no authority over, will try to give you a few examples.

I was laterally promoted to corporal (E-4 with authority), one month after receiving my specialist rank, (E-4) I was then placed in charge of my first battalion supply room SFC (sergeant first class E-7) position, even though 2 of my subordinate units 19th replacement and 129th postal were led by SSG's (staff sergeants E-6) I had 5 clerks, 3 of them would have outranked me if not for my lateral promotion.

I produced 1 PLDC leadership award winner, 4 more that made the Commandants list, 2 Battalion soldier's of the year, 1 Brigade soldier of the year (was one of the battalions) and coached 16 soldiers for their NCO boards, all of them receiving a first time go.

NCOER bullet comments from my supervisors

Performance is well above peers, the best supply NCO I have served with

The best junior NCO in the Battery, must be retained at all cost

best supply NCO in the Brigade

will not back down when he knows he is right

beyond reproach

lives the Army values: fearlessly tells the truth and demands it in return, even from superiors

Innovative NCO, not afraid of risks in order to improve mission results

among the top sergeants I have served with

Natural leader who motivates soldiers to excel in any mission

The funny thing about supply, my rater is the First Sergeant, my senior rater is the Commander and my reviewer is the Battalion Executive officer so all of those comments came from someone holding one of those 3 positions.

I really am not sure what your qualifications are for determining the level of leadership in a person, but I think I will take the opinions of someone holding one of those positions over yours.

Also on a personal note, telling someone that led troops in combat that their leadership skills are crap and putting myself in the same category as Obama is the biggest slap in the face I have ever received, if you would like to visit Livingston Texas I would love to stomp your ass for GP.

If you manage to land a solid punch, I will buy you a beer after you wake up.

I do appreciate the feedback though.

You should also research Aquaponics, it uses one tenth the water of standard farming because nothing is lost through the ground, in fact many charities are being formed to deliver systems to 3rd world countries for this reason.


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Ok, it took me a while, but I found some more pics of Arizona

Good call on growing out the beard but I would stay with the bald thing, even got one of him pointing a gun at someone else.

http://thetvpage.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Prepper.jpg

http://tribkcpq.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/doomsday.jpg

I am also impressed to see you apparently learned some new words today, congratulations !!! Must be the reason for the long delay in the response.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

there is a huge difference between civilian leadership and military leadership, just pointing it out and do stand by my comment on the matter, I can't see you managing/ leading 1000+ people

I see the deal with it once shtf thinking regarding land, but the point of prepping is to deal with it now so when shtf you can worry about the stress of that event, instead of little crap like land management...

and to those that spat their coffee, poor them

and instead of looking into the current problem your plan is to clear a kill zone and extend it as much as possible... AFTER shtf... 

and aquaphonics is a brilliant concept (and commend you for thinking outside the norm) high production food sources are a need in a self sustaining community...

on your personal note to your personal note responses like that only reinforce my view, dealing with civilians with violence... same as your slaves... 

and if I was having a conversion like this with you in a bar, I would have written you off as a nut job, but this is forums, and the internet so been giving you the benefit of the doubt, no one could be that messed up...

but coming up with reclaiming land as part of your plan to expand boarders... its just too much I already said on one post that AI has a good bull shit detector, and in this topic I am thinking he is right, sorry dude, but the floors haven't been addressed outside it works in a war zone, took nearly 10 pages of posts before you agreed that its a issue, in a real world social scenario this would cause riots... (another test to your leadership ability)


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

but coming up with reclaiming land as part of your plan to expand boarders... its just too much I already said on one post that AI has a good bull shit detector, and in this topic I am thinking he is right, sorry dude, but the floors haven't been addressed outside it works in a war zone, took nearly 10 pages of posts before you agreed that its a issue, in a real world social scenario this would cause riots... (another test to your leadership ability)

Ok, I read that 3 times and have no clue what your talking about, are you saying that I should triple the cost of the project to buy land that would be vacant in a SHTF situation that was hard core enough for me to need it ?

Also decisions that need to be made on the spot, would be made on the spot, major decisions about a million dollar + project made without taking at least a day or 3 to consider is called stupidity and failure. You get a very limited number of mistakes on a project like this, shooting from the hip is not how it is done.

one last thing, I have been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt because you say some useful things from time to time, but you live in freaking Australia, they have tractors that can build you a complete underground home in a couple days for nothing, hell even cities

http://www.dogonews.com/2013/3/9/welcome-to-coober-pedy-australias-bustling-underground-town

Why on earth would you want to build an above ground structure with soil/rock like that ? The population of the whole continent is about 4 million less than the state of Texas.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

[/QUOTE]


John Oscar said:


> Ok, I read that 3 times and have no clue what your talking about, are you saying that I should triple the cost of the project to buy land that would be vacant in a SHTF situation that was hard core enough for me to need it ?


no I'm saying "expanding boarders" in the middle of a event is a plan for disaster



John Oscar said:


> Also decisions that need to be made on the spot, would be made on the spot, major decisions about a million dollar + project made without taking at least a day or 3 to consider is called stupidity and failure. You get a very limited number of mistakes on a project like this, shooting from the hip is not how it is done.


true, but in the nature of sound boarding you would of had a b option, or a c that you personally dismissed due to many reasons but could have been brought up and refined



John Oscar said:


> one last thing, I have been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt because you say some useful things from time to time, but you live in freaking Australia, they have tractors that can build you a complete underground home in a couple days for nothing, hell even cities
> 
> Welcome To Coober Pedy - Australia's Bustling Underground Town - Kids News Article
> 
> Why on earth would you want to build an above ground structure with soil/rock like that ? The population of the whole continent is about 4 million less than the state of Texas.


the news link is about a state called south Australia, its like comparing a costal state in the USA to a middle state further north

and my selling point is civilised normality, and I can't live underground, I like the sun, same as a lot of people, the downside here is the population of like minded people, my government has a good record with disasters, the plus side less danger from large groups that form from a social collapse

Australia has a LOT of good points in prepping (outside firearms) but its one harsh environment, so not only dose a castle here must defend against the people but mother nature to

I will give you credit, you are a good conversation on this topic (my wife is over it) and your resourceful...

just keep refining, and improving


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

"De plane, Boss!! De plane!!"

"Welcome to Fantasy Island"


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

That trip cost you more than my whole project, I hope you at least got your tiny penis issues resolved.

Actually I have worked on a lot of homes that cost a lot more than my entire project..... have shoveled poo for a horse that cost more.....

Also we can produce all the food the people in the fortress would need, Arizona may not be happy with the serving sizes but I am sure he would have plenty of his own food to supplement it. The fields would eventually be needed to take the place of the facilities stored supplies as the time wore on and improve variety, but primarily to feed the refugees. So yes, they will clear the fields, and do it pretty damn fast.

Anyone of you compassionate individuals have a better plan for feeding the swarms of refugees ? 

What about cousin Jimmy and his family, Aunt Emily and her family, if they show up starving are you just going to send them away ? Will all in your group honestly be able to do the same thing ? 

How will you handle that one guy with a nice hunting rifle and able to shoot, one round every few hours, whittling down your numbers ?

Yea, might be better not to think about that....

Fixing a problem is always a lot harder than ignoring it....


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I have to wonder how you got a patent on this...

I sort of doubt this would stand up to a challenge/law suit


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

john on the bottom right of the screen there is a button labeled "reply with quote"

please if you're quoting someone use it, (to brake up a conversation into points, copy the end quote at the end, paste it before the start quote, add a space, copy that line, and paste between points, I haven't worked out how to quote multiple people but that doesn't rate high in my list)

why am I telling you this?? it makes it easier to follow what your saying with people


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## John Oscar (Jun 16, 2014)

Please try to make one, the lawsuit would probably fund mine....

14 pages later, this is what we are talking about

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/castle-storage-farms/x/7157805?show_todos=true

Yea I know I still have to change the video =/


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Just watched the video, again. This time, I paid attention.

Speaking of "paid," I realized indiegogo is a site dedicated to fundraising. Just saying, as you continue to pretend this is not what you are all about.

Anyway, the video is a collection of images taken from the web, and nothing that would indicate anything of substance. You list every conceivable use for a room (in this case, the conex is the room), and then admit you do not know everything but want others to tell you how to create it, what crops to grow and what gear to use.

I can understand why you would ask a lot of questions, both here and in your pitch for donations video. Five years as an infantryman and nine years as a supply sergeant answers none of the questions. Your construction business, even if the construction was nothing more than building patios onto already existing homes, is beneficial. That part I do like.

After watching your video, it occurred to me that you are also planning on housing animals as well as having an aquaponics garden. So, now you not only need room for the animals and the aquaponics system, you need food for the critters, food for the fish, and supplements and medicine for the animals and fish as well as supplements for the plants (just using the water from the fish tanks will grow you nutrient-void, tasteless veggies.

I would expect that you understand not all plants thrive in an aquaponics environment. Whatever plants you use, climate and lighting will demand control in order to grow them year around. Fungus and bug control is necessary, and as whatever you use on the plants also goes to the fish, your choices are limited in the control of these problems.

There is a lot more to it that your picture under the video would suggest. Same goes with the structure, itself. The HVAC system is easy to talk about, but requires space, fuel and spare parts, just like the aquaponics. Sewage and water is also a requirement and spare parts are needed, too. 

On top of all of this, you speak of surveillance equipment, weapons, drones, etc. Yeah, you'd better have back-up power supplies for back-up power supplies. You lose your aquaponics water pumps and aerators, LED lighting and temperature control, you are in trouble, and if you lose power to your surveillance equipment, again, where are you?

So, the more you add, the larger the area has to be, and the larger the area, the more people needed to man the walls, and the more people you need to man the walls the more room for supplies and supporting equipment you will need. 

Then again, you are thinking you are going to have an army of serfs on the outside to protect you in return for food. Regardless of what you are thinking, your aquaponics system, even if all goes perfectly, will not feed everyone or even come close to doing it. Let's assume those marauders do come around, and all the peasants rush into the castle for salvation, how long do you think you'll last? There is no chance the aquaponics system will feed everyone, there'll be no room, the animals, including the breeders, will be consumed, and the ApexPredator will be waiting for ensuing chaos to settle down so he can scale the walls and search all the containers for a Dolly Madison honeybun that might have been missed.

Who is your target audience? These people must be pretty rich, as this is going to cost a fortune, and even then, there are better ideas.

Want my rub? Here's my rub. You have requested a patent for some part of this otherwise hum-drum idea, but for everything else, you want others to be your unpaid consultants while you pan for donations. 

Here's an idea. Build an aquaponics farm if your location's climate is good for it without too much artificial assistance and sell the produce at farmers markets. Be sure and add the required plant supplements so that the produce will taste better and be healthy food and make sure to let potential customers know you've done that. People are beginning to assume all aquaponics produce is bland.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

The shit is and I have to agree with Denton, your idea is complex to the point that 
Murphey's Law of what can go wrong will go wrong, will make your facility implode.

Sure I may be part of a group eating ground up earth worm powder soup and on 
special nights maybe a few small fish if lucky. It is nothing glorious but it is based
on proven tactics and techniques that are simple and tangible in the field.

Not some dream of the damn Jetson's Future Robo Poop Fort.


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