# The Coming Water Wars



## rebroome (Jan 16, 2014)

In one of my previous occupations, I spent time examining potential threats to the United States. One that I think that is not talked about often enough is the coming global conflict over clean water.

Report: Water shortages increasingly will offer weapon for states, terror groups - The Washington Post

Clean, fresh water is becoming scarce. If a terrorist group wants to hit you hard, they just find a way to pollute local water supplies. Think about the recent industrial accident that polluted water for a large part of West Virginia. A terrorist can do the same thing, but maybe they use a form of biological terrorism instead of chemicals. Much harder to catch and fix before serious harm is done.


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Yes, with water being universal, used by rich and poor, and all in between, If someone "spiked" the system, with a serious contaminant, it would be verey quick. 
I know, people say," I only drink bottled water", but we all shower with city water, and it does infuse into our skin and has prolonged contact.


----------



## rebroome (Jan 16, 2014)

I would think those living in urban areas, where rivers are already polluted, or have large unprotected water filtration plants are at most risk.


----------



## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

One of the reasons we chose where we are in Montana. We have several Artesian wells. I posted earlier that I hear people all the time say they live near a lake,river or stream and they have no worries about water. Not only do they have to worry about what you are talking about. They also have to worry that in just a matter of days/weeks after a shtf event. Those water sources will be polluted with human waste and other contaminants!!! They seem to look at things with tunnel vision instead of looking at the big picture..


----------



## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

It is not that new of a concept, but like all of our other vulnerabilities, it's not really publicized by those responsible for keeping it from happening. 

Fortunately, it's harder than you would think to produce and then introduce a pathogen into a very large water supply. Yes, it is possible, but the logistics and actual process are difficult to do without someone noticing something amiss. But don't think for a minute that someone somewhere is thinking about how they can do it.

A more likely scenario is a fight over dwindling water supplies. The Colorado River system is a good example. There are water usage pacts or treaties between all the users of it's water. And there have been several suits between States and even Mexico over how much water each entity has used from the system. If a drought or other natural event reduces the amount of water available, there would be a pretty ugly fight. And you can ask Texans and Okies about water rights regarding the Ogalalla reservior. That is a fight that is brewing too.

It's funny in a way that our most abundant renewable resource on earth could cause a war, but it is true. Forget designing a motor that gets 100+ mpg, build an efficient desalination system, and then look out for whoever will try to knock you off.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Considering water aquafirs are being sold to corporations...


----------



## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Denton said:


> Considering water aquafirs are being sold to corporations...


I haven't heard about that! Let me guess, Haliburton?


----------



## rebroome (Jan 16, 2014)

Yes. Dwindling supplies are certainly a major issue too. We have places already in trouble like California. When the SHTF, this will pull some states and regions into a crisis very quickly.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Can't remember which corporations. Will lookmit up tonight whenI am not using this darned tablet.


----------



## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Denton said:


> Can't remember which corporations. Will lookmit up tonight whenI am not using this darned tablet.


Technology sucks, don't it? lol


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Search "corporations buying water rights."


----------



## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Denton said:


> Search "corporations buying water rights."


You gotta read this.

And this sounds kinda communistic, but you would think the State of Alaska and Sitka, could pony up the money to sell the water themselves, and keep the profits. They didn't say whether the companies were privately owned or publicly owned, and that would make a great deal of difference in an argument. Regardless, publicly owned resources ideally should not be exploited by privately owned entities who make great profits while the public benefit is substantially smaller.


----------



## rebroome (Jan 16, 2014)

Couldn't agree more.


----------



## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

anyone ever wonder what 3rd word countries or drought effected countries do?? it's called a desalination plant, converts sea water to drinking water, took years to get a plant on the gold coast but it can deliver enough clean water if needed


----------



## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Just Sayin' said:


> I haven't heard about that! Let me guess, Haliburton?


N E S T L E S ,spells Nestles aka Ice Mountain Spring Water and a few other's that are bottled down the road from me.


----------



## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

No one should be able to own a water source. Water used to be free. Now you can't even get a drink of water without a dollar in your pocket. I read somewhere a while back that a corporation was trying to buy rights to the water in the Amazon River!


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Let's think about this for a moment.
A corporation buys the rights to an aquifer. You, a citizen who has a well on your own land, is sued for using the water owned by a corporation. The government comes onto your property, destroys your well and tells you that you must get on county water and pay for it. Oh, and you are also responsible for the costs of the suit.

Think about Monsanto. It creates copyrighted material they call "food" and it cross pollinates farms owned by people who don't even want that garbage, but it is the corporation that is the victim and not those who wants good, natural food. 

This is a country of corporations, and the citizens are nothing more than chattel property.


----------



## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

There are a few places in Florida owned by Nestle. Zephyrhills Water is one of them I believe. This spring has an ungodly amount of water pumping throu it and they are making a killing off of it..

We were just talking about this the other day at home. Water is a VERY important thing but I don't think many people are paying attention to it.. Overpopulation and technology are going to ruin this planet. Hell, it almost has already!


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Another reason I am here. We will never have to worry about water.
Do your home work on sand point wells for some of you it may allow you to tap water without anyone knowing.


----------



## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

I remember this scenario being offered in the seventies. The version pot forth then was US vs Mexico over Colorado River water. The way it played out was Mexico claiming nongovernmental forces that they could not control attacking US citizens. Almost like Cartels?


----------



## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Zephryhills water gets their water from nearby Crystal Springs, for free,
They also bring in water from other sources in N. Florida.
They basically run it thru filters, bottle it, and sell under several names---Nestles, Zephryhills, crystal springs, and others.
There is a lot of money in free water.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

If managing water in places like CA is left to the government No one will have water.
CA never had enough water . They have gotten by this long by stealing it from the CO. river and every where else they could.
How many phony court cases have there been on this subject in my life time.


----------



## adapt619 (Jan 28, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> If managing water in places like CA is left to the government No one will have water.
> CA never had enough water . They have gotten by this long by stealing it from the CO. river and every where else they could.
> How many phony court cases have there been on this subject in my life time.


Seriously. I'm in san diego and I sware that we would all die of dehydration otherwise. Just out of curiousity, is it really STEALING from the CO river? Not saying its correct or incorrect, simply asking a Q


----------



## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

I was just talking to a friend about this. She says that the governor signed a bill saying that socal won't get helps from NorCal? I've been looking and can't find info online. 

I told her to get her rain catchment system up and going ASAP. Even if it doesn't rain that much (we're expecting rain Monday) every little bit helps. 

Heck, half the reason I'm growing lemons and limes is to make lemonade and limeade. Help my stored water stretch twice as long. 

But we are in dire need of rain. My trees are starting curl up their leaves cause they need water. I "COULD" hook back up to city water but since I set up the rain collection system and drip irrigation, my trees are off grid. No external water needed. 

Ok. Going back out to do my rain dance again


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

adapt619 said:


> Seriously. I'm in san diego and I sware that we would all die of dehydration otherwise. Just out of curiousity, is it really STEALING from the CO river? Not saying its correct or incorrect, simply asking a Q


 Yes it is In order to grow CA took water from others. They stole it. Then they used a stacked court system to allow them to keep doing it.
This problem did not just start it has been going on for many years.
The history of CA and it's quest to take water from others is a long one.


----------



## ordnance21xx (Jan 29, 2014)

There is already a war of water going on in califorina. As city fight for water. they are not allowed to have a water catch system for rain water.


MOLON LABE


----------



## adapt619 (Jan 28, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Yes it is In order to grow CA took water from others. They stole it. Then they used a stacked court system to allow them to keep doing it.
> This problem did not just start it has been going on for many years.
> The history of CA and it's quest to take water from others is a long one.


Not that I doubt what you are saying, but stealing from who exactly?


----------



## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

Drinking Water - the greatest gold mine on the planet. I work for the largest defense contractor in the US and yes we make fighter jets, missiles, now laser weapons that destroy targets with heat, the new space shuttle and now the greatest new product line: water desalination at an affordable price. Patents pending. Yes, a defense contractor diversifying into what will end up being the single most important investment of capital ever spent.

There will soon be wars over water that will make wars over oil pale in comparison. Remember that a person really can't go beyond three days without drinking water. You can walk, eat and procreate without oil. Life would be difficult but life would go on.

Without drinking water we are all finished. The capital funds that have been put forth on this project indicate the return on investment will be billions short term and much more over time. Desalination isn't new and multiple companies are already setting up and operating large stations around the world. The problem with them is they do not make money - they are extremely expensive to operate.

This new approach is very affordable and simply doesn't use other energy sources to derive drinking water. Brilliant scientific advances that will save us all. The first plant is already in the works for the middle east. All we need to do is make sure it is available to the us citizens when needed. That time is quickly advancing - look west to California.

Excellent thread.

1895gunner


----------



## rebroome (Jan 16, 2014)

1895gunner said:


> Drinking Water - the greatest gold mine on the planet. I work for the largest defense contractor in the US and yes we make fighter jets, missiles, now laser weapons that destroy targets with heat, the new space shuttle and now the greatest new product line: water desalination at an affordable price. Patents pending. Yes, a defense contractor diversifying into what will end up being the single most important investment of capital ever spent.
> 
> There will soon be wars over water that will make wars over oil pale in comparison. Remember that a person really can't go beyond three days without drinking water. You can walk, eat and procreate without oil. Life would be difficult but life would go on.
> 
> ...


This may have promise for those living near the ocean, but what about the rest of the country? Do we have the infrastructure to get it into the interior? How much typical government interference and regulatory oversight do you expect by EPA, OSHA; you name it? We can't even get an oil pipeline built that will create jobs. The technology for cheap desalination sounds great. How do you make it's national use even close to a reality? This country finally passed a budget after four years of CRAs. How do you even get any funding? Sorry. This is far, far from the silver bullet you describe.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

*California officials forecast 'zero' water deliveries*



> State officials announced Friday that 29 water agencies serving 25 million people across California can expect "zero" water deliveries from the State Water Project this summer because of the worsening drought.
> 
> Although that delivery projection could change, it is the first time a "zero allocation" forecast has been made in the 54-year history of the State Water Project, which is operated by the California Department of Water Resources and typically delivers Sierra snowmelt to cities and farms throughout the state.


Read more here: California officials forecast 'zero' water deliveries - Our Region - The Sacramento Bee


----------



## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

rebroome said:


> This may have promise for those living near the ocean, but what about the rest of the country? Do we have the infrastructure to get it into the interior? How much typical government interference and regulatory oversight do you expect by EPA, OSHA; you name it? We can't even get an oil pipeline built that will create jobs. The technology for cheap desalination sounds great. How do you make it's national use even close to a reality? This country finally passed a budget after four years of CRAs. How do you even get any funding? Sorry. This is far, far from the silver bullet you describe.


Why, that is easy! We'll just build a bunch of pipelines!


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Just Sayin' said:


> Why, that is easy! We'll just build a bunch of pipelines!


Oh, but wait! Have you done the multi-year ecological study on that pipeline? How will it affect the endangered marsh hen? You must build it high enough for the deer and carribou to pass underneath. Don't forget to design a filter to go over the inlet pipe to exclude the endangered snail darter. (If I was a liberal I could probably go on with this for 4 or 5 pages).

We are already having water wars here in the Southeast. Florida and Georgia have been fighting in courts and legislatures for years over the water in the Chattahoochee / Apalachicola rivers.


----------



## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Damn, rice paddy daddy, are you trying to kill my jobs creation scheme before I even get started? lol


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Oh, but wait! Have you done the multi-year ecological study on that pipeline? How will it affect the endangered marsh hen? You must build it high enough for the deer and carribou to pass underneath. Don't forget to design a filter to go over the inlet pipe to exclude the endangered snail darter. (If I was a liberal I could probably go on with this for 4 or 5 pages).
> 
> We are already having water wars here in the Southeast. Florida and Georgia have been fighting in courts and legislatures for years over the water in the Chattahoochee / Apalachicola rivers.


Georgia and Alabama have had a few legal battles, as well. Seems to me Georgia is the problem! :lol:


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Plants for desalination are a great way to control access to water. You will always have rain water but a well - a deep well - is better than any other source.


----------



## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

rebroome said:


> This may have promise for those living near the ocean, but what about the rest of the country? Do we have the infrastructure to get it into the interior? How much typical government interference and regulatory oversight do you expect by EPA, OSHA; you name it? We can't even get an oil pipeline built that will create jobs. The technology for cheap desalination sounds great. How do you make it's national use even close to a reality? This country finally passed a budget after four years of CRAs. How do you even get any funding? Sorry. This is far, far from the silver bullet you describe.


Do not disagree... I'm not saying this is the answer but what is? If there is an answer why is California drying up? All I'm really stating is that there is a cheaper path forward and that we ARE headed to a real drinking water problem down the road. Here is hoping that an answer is arrived at. Me, I'm on a deep well but that won't do much good if the aquifers dry up by over usage.

1895gunner


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The upper Midwest is not going to give up it's water.
CA is not drying up. It never had enough water to support what it has become.
Long before it got to this point CA had to steal water everyway it could. It has run out of options


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

California governor declares drought emergency

If you read down a bit you see snow pack in the Sierra Mountains at 8-22% of normal!

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25013388/california-drought-17-communities-could-run-out-water

Keep in mind California produces a HUGE percentage of the vegitable grown in the country, the first to lose is the farmers.

I expect produce prices to surge this summer


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

1895gunner said:


> Do not disagree... I'm not saying this is the answer but what is? If there is an answer why is California drying up? All I'm really stating is that there is a cheaper path forward and that we ARE headed to a real drinking water problem down the road. Here is hoping that an answer is arrived at. Me, I'm on a deep well but that won't do much good if the aquifers dry up by over usage.
> 
> 1895gunner


Let me expand on that a bit, please. I'm sure you know this but people from other areas might not.

The North Florida Aquifer, which is what my well and your well draws out of, is being raped and pillaged to keep lawns green in South Florida. So the yankee transplants can have golf courses and pretty manicured yards.
Underground most of Florida is porous limestone filled with fresh water. When that water is drawn out of the south end, the middle and northern parts of the state suffer. Those sinkholes that open up and swallow buildings are caused by very low water levels in the limestone.
My well is 225 feet deep, I hope that's deep enough.

And i'd wager that a substantial portion of California's water is wasted on lawns and golf courses as well.


----------



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

PrepConsultant said:


> One of the reasons we chose where we are in Montana. We have several Artesian wells. I posted earlier that I hear people all the time say they live near a lake,river or stream and they have no worries about water. Not only do they have to worry about what you are talking about. They also have to worry that in just a matter of days/weeks after a shtf event. Those water sources will be polluted with human waste and other contaminants!!! They seem to look at things with tunnel vision instead of looking at the big picture..


This is a real issue especially if a power outage combines with surge level rains. I know for where my property is there was a raw sewage discharge potentially related to a poweroutage. The sewage systems have no real backup systems, they need to bring in a pumper truck every time there is an outage.. and a raw discharge makes the water so vile it is worse than a flu if you drink water even remotely contaminated, it takes weeks before it is safe to eat fish from the water again.

It is extremely devestating. And the mad civil engineers have planned most cities to dump human and industrial waste into our water supply.. when it is working fine they treat some of the chemicals, and kill bacteria with UV light and other chemicals.. but in a SHTF.. no new chemical supplies for cleaning water if your city depends on chlorine or some other source guess what they will start using up their stockpile if they have one... and their systems won't work without electricity.. if people keep flushing the whole system will get clogged and they will be left with two choices if it rains.. flush the system or let the system flush itself.... unless it is a system made to take into consideration surge water levels.

None the less this is a massive danger.

It is madness to connect the sewer systems in but it is cheaper and that is all there is to it. Depending on rainwater can be touch and go also. I've found even in my rainy area, I use more water than it rains, if I don't cook with water there is enough water to survive on, but for baking and cooking you need to draw water from a secondary source unless you get lucky. Know your percipitation and realize you will need more than one rain barrel if you have 10 barrels you will fare much better. There of course are other ways of harvesting water.. there is a machine that even takes it from air moisture.

Water is vital. In terms of water wars, this is one of the things that has me worry being up in Northern Ontario, you expect areas like the finger lakes, and lakes up in minnesota to fill up. But being up in Canada living next to a large lake... it is a awfully nice target, anywhere around the great lakes are, that is until they get dumped on from the major cities that are around them. I think it will take lake superior a lot longer to get contaminated.. and luckily there is a control damn on the north and south of the lake river systems.. so I think it is more insulated.

None the less.... not too likely for a SHTF situation but.. understand in an emergency situation if there is loss of power and heavy rain you know a couple days combined, the chance of sewage discharge will increase dramatically.

(I'm only using one or two collection basins, with two or three I'd probably be ok, but the more the better)

I'm thinking Duluth and Thunder Bay are two of the only places on lake superior should take a look for others...
http://www.wlssd.com/wastewater_sewer.php

There are just so many freshwater lakes in Canada, I would imagine in event of crisis the US border would bulge with people fleeing up into Canada to escape the chaos.


----------



## I.Kane (Nov 21, 2013)

Interesting how corporations somehow convinced "consumers" as they always call us, that buying water in bottles is the new normal. Might be getting us used to something perhaps?


----------

