# Self defense during extreme Situation



## Nick22N (Dec 15, 2016)

We all love prepping, stockpiling food, water, tools, guns and ammunition if its allowed. Let's just say that when shtf and we are in a situation where we need to kill in order to survive or to defend ourselves and our loved ones. Majority of the citizens own a gun, practice shooting, gun safety. But how will it be to point the gun at "someone", and pull the trigger? Yes, we r doing it for a reason but that's a life which might get extinguished. And worst case scenario, we shot the person..the body is outside my house. Can't let it rot there, we try to bury it and the person is still alive. Do we steel ourselves and finish him off? Or try saving him..? 

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

well that would depend on how pissed off I am the time.

I might prop them up on a couple 2x4's down at the edge of my property and let them rot-slippy pikes come to mind.

or

I might cap'em and bury them or cremate em.

then again

I might fix em so I can f#$k them up again later.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Ok, I'll play your game.. Here's my answer,If they were enough of a threat that I shot them to stop the threat why would I try to nurse them back to health so they could be a threat again????:roll:


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

so I can f45k them up again and again and again there are thing worse than death.:vs_closedeyes:


----------



## Nick22N (Dec 15, 2016)

Medic33 said:


> so I can f45k them up again and again and again there are thing worse than death.:vs_closedeyes:


I guess that would be the outbreak of the zombie apocalypse then! U put down a guy and then he growls and crawls towards u again. With a big gaping hole in his forehead where u shot him

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


----------



## Nick22N (Dec 15, 2016)

ekim said:


> Ok, I'll play your game.. Here's my answer,If they were enough of a threat that I shot them to stop the threat why would I try to nurse them back to health so they could be a threat again????:roll:


Coz Maybe @Medic33 wants some real life target practice on a human? Lol.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Nick22N said:


> Can't let it rot there, we try to bury it and the person is still alive. Do we steel ourselves and finish him off? Or try saving him..?
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


I might elect to steel ourselves ..... if I knew what you mean?


----------



## Nick22N (Dec 15, 2016)

A Watchman said:


> I might elect to steel ourselves ..... if I knew what you mean?


Killing someone injured, cold blooded murder. But the person was and can become a threat again. Difficult to decide wat to do

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Nick22N said:


> Killing someone injured, cold blooded murder. But the person was and can become a threat again. Difficult to decide wat to do
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


Murder you say? Hmmm. I read the title of your thread to say "Self Defense during a Extreme Situation".


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

When SHTF there will be no law to run to , you will have to do what ever it takes to protect yourself and family . If someone came to my door as a threat ,they are dead , pushed to the curb .


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

What if what if all day long. Had it not been necessary I would not have shot in the first place. If by some chance the BG was still alive the fight is not over it will be finished. When a BG forces you to act the result is on them.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

You would waste resources, time, and put your family in danger, on someone you deemed a threat in the first place? If you found it necessary to shoot in the first place nothing will have changed between you shooting and you discovering the BG needs a follow up shot.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Grandpa and dad taught me to shoot to kill humanly as possible while hunting. Head or neck shots and slit the throat. Making the kill quickly to avoid unnecessary suffering to the critter being taken. This lesson will be applied in a SHTF scenario. NO time or effort will be wasted in an attempt to help anything that needs to be shot.


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

I had a long elaborate response typed out and decided to not post it

An "extreme" situation is WROL/post-SHTF, the only governing decision maker you will have is *your own morality* we cannot make these decisions for you, no one knows what will happen or how it will happen.

If your moral compass is telling you to nurse that BG back to health, then fine...you will accept all risk because _every_ action has consequences, even good ones


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I cannot defend my God, . . . Who is first in my life. He's big enough to defend Himself.

But my family is next in my life, . . . and if the threat became against my family, . . . I will not hesitate to use whatever force is necessary to end that threat. 

An old wise man in Nam said one time, . . . shoot twice, . . . life is precious, . . . ammo is cheap.

I really try to be a loving, kind, caring pastor. But there are situations where the David in me will hunt the Goliath, . . . no second thoughts, no remorse, never looking back.

If I'm alive when the fan blades are dripping, . . . my rules will not change, . . . I live by them now, . . . and I'll continue then.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

this is an old old prepper topic that keeps occasionally cropping up ... if you think that's it's TEOTWAWKI and start acting like it - prepare for your arrest - if you're that lucky to get arrested and not just lined up and shot by the first National Guard unit passing thru .... it's VERY highly unlikely that some sort of authority doesn't get re-established ...

if you need to kill someone in what YOU determined to be self defense - if at all possible - report the shooting and collect evidence supporting your situation - don't be a dumbazz and start mutilating bodies or start a Killing Fields body dumpsite .... in regard to the wounded - it's both a moral and strategic decision - again, I wouldn't be leaving telltale signs of outrite murder - certainly wouldn't be exposing anyone to danger playing Florence Nightingale - wouldn't be expending my resources on someone out to kill me ....


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Not many prepper communities will be able to nurse enemies back to health and then jail them. If some of your own group has been killed in the battle, I can't see many folks feeling too generous, either. Vigilante justice will be the option most chosen in a WROL situation, in my opinion. Got rope?


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The zombies are already in our midst. That are called commie liberals..muzzies and democrats. They aint that hard to handle. As far as being able to hammer down in a tense situation comes from training in my view. When a well trained person detects a threat they go on auto pilot and react more like a machine than a human. Muscle memory the trainers call it. Time slows down to a crawl and the bad guy is the center of attention..then Mr. Gun starts shooting.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Build a moat and feed the alligators?


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

If you shoot someone post SHTF, make sure you kill them, hit them again from a distance, 2 or 3 times if needed.

They were a threat to your safety, give them no quarter,

they will bite you in the ass if you allow them to survive.

Too many see BS in movies, get over it, survival, it will not be with any morality.

Even now, within our social norms, people can and will be lower than animals, I have seen it firsthand.

Post SHTF, you can get killed for a cigarette, Denton will do you for a vape!


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The question that keeps coming back is do they deserve a second change to kill you after you stopped them the first time?


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sure. We are supposed to turn the other cheek.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Sure. We are supposed to turn the other cheek.


_Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'[a]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." 38 The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That's enough!" he replied._


----------



## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

I think the likely hood of an event and no local government surviving or at least not reforming rather quickly is extremely unlikely. Even in a nuclear war if I survive others near me would survive. Human nature has always been to band together and help each other . 

Do what you have to do to defeat an attack then render aid if the attacker survives. Murder has a corrupting effect on the soul. Killing a person even when allowed by the rules of war leaves many with trauma. If no government get three other adults together to review/ hear what happen . If acting as a jury they decide to execute the person then it is not murder rather a death sentence.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

RJAMES said:


> I think the likely hood of an event and no local government surviving or at least not reforming rather quickly is extremely unlikely. Even in a nuclear war if I survive others near me would survive. Human nature has always been to band together and help each other .
> 
> Do what you have to do to defeat an attack then render aid if the attacker survives. Murder has a corrupting effect on the soul. Killing a person even when allowed by the rules of war leaves many with trauma. If no government get three other adults together to review/ hear what happen . If acting as a jury they decide to execute the person then it is not murder rather a death sentence.


Uhmm ... (A Watchman figures this feller ain't quite got around to reading One Second After yet) Suppose the nuclear attack was atmospheric instead of a ground attack? An EMP would have many quick and deadly layers. A government would find order difficult without a methodology to mobilize and communicate.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

While I wonder sometimes if the EMP would in fact do all it is pledged to do, . . . I also don't plan on poo-poohing the possibility.

There is a VERY real possibility that it may be weeks at best and possibly even months before folks begin to seriously communicate with other "villages", . . . and the danger will be some kind of serious, . . . not knowing who to trust, . . . 

Ain't looking forward to it, . . . that's for sure.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

RJAMES said:


> I think the likely hood of an event and no local government surviving or at least not reforming rather quickly is extremely unlikely. Even in a nuclear war if I survive others near me would survive. Human nature has always been to band together and help each other .
> 
> Do what you have to do to defeat an attack then render aid if the attacker survives. Murder has a corrupting effect on the soul. Killing a person even when allowed by the rules of war leaves many with trauma. If no government get three other adults together to review/ hear what happen . If acting as a jury they decide to execute the person then it is not murder rather a death sentence.


Now this is the path to a Darwin award if I have ever seen one.

Right, get three (qualified?) adults together in a Tribunal to decide, they may execute your ass.

Perhaps you would like those three to decide if you were justified in killing someone?

In this presented thread scenario, it is killing, not murder, just like in combat.

The biggest difference is,

the person/s you kill are acting as an individual/s to cause you harm, not following legal military orders.

If you had killed the bastard/s in the first place, no civilian review of your choosing would be needed.

You are watching too much walking dead.

Each will have to make his own rules to survive, I will follow mine, certainly not yours.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

RJAMES said:


> I think the likely hood of an event and no local government surviving or at least not reforming rather quickly is extremely unlikely. Even in a nuclear war if I survive others near me would survive. Human nature has always been to band together and help each other .
> 
> Do what you have to do to defeat an attack then render aid if the attacker survives. Murder has a corrupting effect on the soul. Killing a person even when allowed by the rules of war leaves many with trauma. If no government get three other adults together to review/ hear what happen . If acting as a jury they decide to execute the person then it is not murder rather a death sentence.


Maybe you could wave a white flag and just tell them you want to discuss it. Then y'all could sit down and figure out how to defuse the situation.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

RJAMES said:


> I think the likely hood of an event and no local government surviving or at least not reforming rather quickly is extremely unlikely. Even in a nuclear war if I survive others near me would survive. Human nature has always been to band together and help each other .
> 
> Do what you have to do to defeat an attack then render aid if the attacker survives. Murder has a corrupting effect on the soul. Killing a person even when allowed by the rules of war leaves many with trauma. If no government get three other adults together to review/ hear what happen . If acting as a jury they decide to execute the person then it is not murder rather a death sentence.


Another troll....


----------



## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

A fictional story who's author concentrates on metro areas i think in my rural area it will revert to 1860- 65 where local government is formed by the farm families within a radius of 5 to 6 miles. A group of mostly related people who will work together to help each other thru what ever comes and provide security to each other. Lets hope we never find out who's vision of what could happen is correct.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

RJAMES said:


> Do what you have to do to defeat an attack then render aid if the attacker survives.


No Sir... If I am attacked and for some reason the person is injured and unable to fight.... I will kill them with sword. I am not taking prisoners and I am not fixing up somebody that might come back with more friends to kill my children

a soft knock and a request for food will get a sandwich.. an attack on my home means one side or the other is going to die... Evil will not get a reprieve


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Me, I would use a bayonet, attached to a rifle.

Was taught, push it in 3 inches if they move, then all the way.

It works.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Me, I would use a bayonet, attached to a rifle.
> 
> Was taught, push it in 3 inches if they move, then all the way.
> 
> It works.


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

well shucks.


----------



## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

This kind of supposes a WROL situation too obviously. For instance Hurricane Katrina was most definitely a SHTF situation for a lot of people who lived there. And for a while they were living without rule of law. However eventually order was restored and thus it's entirely possible that any actions one took, even in self defense could be brought back in for trial. Regardless of Pre or Post SHTF if I have to draw my gun and fire there's an old adage that seems to fit. "Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice." Would I render aid to the person I just shot? I don't know and hope I never have to find out. Is there another threat to deal with? What's the situation I'm currently in? How much ammo do I have left? Lot of other thing to consider when thinking about a situation like this.


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

OK, more thoughts from my addled brain.
I'm all for defending. Hell, I'm all for going on the offense if it preempts the need to go on defense. 

But instead of discussing techniques for ensuring enemy combatant demise, how do we plan to avoid these situations? I know it's always more fun to talk about the gunfight, because we ALL know we will win it. But just on the outside chance you are fighting another prepper who is infallible, what can we do to deescalate or negate a potential lead swap?


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Good question Coastie, but short of isolating one's self with barriers, the timing of a potential aggressor may be beyond our control. Of course, the seriousness of the event will play into controlling the situation. What were you thinking here as a protocal?


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Signs, . . . audible alarms, . . . warnings, . . . 

Perhaps some of that will dissuade the dirt bags from coming in.

I perfectly believe in making my place look totally un-attractive, . . . and since I am the first on the road, . . . there are many more to go shopping at.

If it does not dissuade them, . . . I have other "ideas", . . . and they won't like most of them.

AND, . . . if I only had a hand full of claymores, . . . but that is another discussion point for another day.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Coastie dad said:


> OK, more thoughts from my addled brain.
> I'm all for defending. Hell, I'm all for going on the offense if it preempts the need to go on defense.
> 
> But instead of discussing techniques for ensuring enemy combatant demise, how do we plan to avoid these situations? I know it's always more fun to talk about the gunfight, because we ALL know we will win it. But just on the outside chance you are fighting another prepper who is infallible, what can we do to deescalate or negate a potential lead swap?


I understand what your saying but aggression is still aggression. I don't care who you are. If you want to talk, then say so. Don't come after me with guns a blazing. That's what you will get in return.


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

RPD, Two pigs.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> Good question Coastie, but short of isolating one's self with barriers, the timing of a potential aggressor may be beyond our control. Of course, the seriousness of the event will play into controlling the situation. What were you thinking here as a protocal?


I am curious as well. Deescalation and negotiating is a good skill set to possess and perhaps be useful as time goes by to survive. What protocol would encompass a contingency for the action being forced or a negotiation being a possible detriment?


----------



## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Prepared One said:


> I am curious as well. Deescalation and negotiating is a good skill set to possess and perhaps be useful as time goes by to survive. What protocol would encompass a contingency for the action being forced or a negotiation being a possible detriment?


I agree with your postulate, and as reasonable men I hope your thoughts become our thoughts.

The issue for me is the scope of the thread. The OP uses the term "extreme." I envision roving gangs running out of food water and women. That's a whole new ballgame.

As odd as this might seem--and I'm a Seventh Day Adventist--I would use any tool to protect my family or those I have joined with as a dystopian community. Like it or not this is what I would try.

I would drag the corpse to the parameter of our village/compound/commune. I would prop the dead guy up on a stick ala Vlad the Impaler, with the sigh, "Mess with the best, die like the rest."

Maybe I wouldn't have to kill anymore.


----------



## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Coastie dad said:


> OK, more thoughts from my addled brain.
> I'm all for defending. Hell, I'm all for going on the offense if it preempts the need to go on defense.
> 
> But instead of discussing techniques for ensuring enemy combatant demise, how do we plan to avoid these situations? I know it's always more fun to talk about the gunfight, because we ALL know we will win it. But just on the outside chance you are fighting another prepper who is infallible, what can we do to deescalate or negate a potential lead swap?


 Lots of variables not sure where to start. So lets start with why do I have people coming to the house or calling unexpectedly now. Seeking medical help , looking for directions, vehicle accident breakdown along the road these have happened several times.

directions- Now I post address so delivery guys/ ambulance / fire truck can find the house they are looking for. After an event I could post signs directing them to what they are trying to find. Example if there should be some type of shelter set up or food distribution point. Once the local gas station is out of gas signs telling folks out of gas would perhaps keep them on the main roads and away from me on the side road I live on.

medical help - Now I have 911 dispatch calling on the phone or radio asking me to meet an ambulance either because I can get their quicker or they think they will need the help , neighbors often call me directly . I do not see that changing at least for my neighbors. Obviously if communications are down no phone calls.

breakdowns / slide offs- Happens now every 6 months or so as we have a real bad road . Depends on the damage many times I just use the tractor to pull them out if not I use the 10k winch on the truck. I have had to call for a crash truck to come from 20 miles away but usually have the people out by the time they arrived.

After a situation - I would consider closing the road off at least for a time to vehicles. I could block it with big round hay bails or broke down / out of gas vehicles or trailers/ cut trees. If I did this it would be at least 1/2 mile in both directions from the house most likely 3 miles.

My house and barns can be seen from the road I live on. After an event I plan to erect a fence with gate at the end of the lane. When I build that fence I plan to move a bell so that someone at the gate can ring it and let us know they are at the gate and want to talk.

The house currently has three doors two of which you now have to get thru a gate and past dogs to get to them. After an event I will add more fence and a gate so that after you come thru the lane gate you then have to get thru a gate into the fenced yard and past those dogs to come up to the house. I have the materials now and keep debating if I want to put it up now or wait. Since it is a pain to get out of a vehicle , open and shut a gate then open and shut a door into a house I have not done so.

Other things I can think of is black out curtains and running generators in the day time to charge batteries as sound travels further at night. Actions to hide what you got from outsiders. Continuing to work with neighbors for security, trade, support.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Prepared One said:


> I am curious as well. Deescalation and negotiating is a good skill set to possess and perhaps be useful as time goes by to survive. What protocol would encompass a contingency for the action being forced or a negotiation being a possible detriment?


 There may be a time to talk. But care must be taken as to when that is. Being engaged in dialog is a good way to get killed. Some thing we teach those on sentry duty. Do not engage in conversation. Clear simple commands failure to comply results in serious conquancess , including death. 
Person approaches that you feel has hostile intent. They follow instruction and no long pose a threat , you move that person to where you and your group are in control that is a time to talk. You may then inform them of a big mistake they have made and offer them the chance to depart in peace. If you find they are no threat and the need they have is something you can provide then by all means extended what charity you can. Until proven other wise all are a threat.


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

See? I used lauras technique of saying something then letting yall talk.
How cool is that?:vs_smirk:


----------

