# Magazine springs



## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

I have 4 mags for my 9mm pistol. I keep 2 loaded with gold dots and 2 empty. I rotate the mags every so often to allow the springs to "rest". Does anyone else do this? Just wondering if I worry about nothing.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

It's a good plan. Some of us who used to be cops, would have two sets of mags. One set with blue dots for Winter/Spring, one set with red dots for Summer/Fall. Switched them out every 6 months.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Used to be a time when that was necessary. Modern magazines from reputable manufacturers have springs that deliver more force than needed. Even if they do weaken a bit with age, they should still have more than enough force to feed the last round.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

Maybe good advice? I've never heard of this, I only have 2 magazines for my pistol. (Extra ones are $50 a piece!:shock. I never knew the springs needed to "rest". Can anyone else back this up?


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Mine have been loaded for years at a time,rifle and pistol.I de-load them by shooting them dry....never had a problem, they are numbered though in case of a fail...if you feel you want to rotate go ahead,I used to,scratches up the brass when you de-and re-load them.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

keith9365 said:


> I have 4 mags for my 9mm pistol. I keep 2 loaded with gold dots and 2 empty. I rotate the mags every so often to allow the springs to "rest". Does anyone else do this? Just wondering if I worry about nothing.


Rotate them,the springs didn't go to metallurgy school


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## Old Man (Dec 10, 2012)

I rotate all of the ones I have out about every 3 months. I believe the springs will last long by doing this.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I do mine every other month.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I always thought the rule of thumb was for every 10 rounds, pack 1 less. Not so much the constant tension, but the compression and relaxing numerous times of the springs that caused failure. This might have been before newer metal chemistry. my .02.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

keith9365 said:


> I have 4 mags for my 9mm pistol. I keep 2 loaded with gold dots and 2 empty. I rotate the mags every so often to allow the springs to "rest". Does anyone else do this? Just wondering if I worry about nothing.


I've even gone as far as mark the bottom of mags with a number to help in rotation. I just thought it was a good idea to rotate, like you do keith!


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Modern springs will hold their tension and length forever - as long as they are not cycled fast (which causes internal heat) or heated above 250F. If you want to be sure your springs won't go limp then put them into an oven at 500 - 550F for two to three hours and then place them immediately into a bowl of cold water with Epson salts dissolved in it.

That is the heat treatment that springs get before they are sold. I have made many springs for automatic transmissions and I have never had one fail.

Heat, over compressing and rapid cycling are the only ways that you can damage a spring. The leaf springs on cars cycle faster than any spring I can think of and even they last for years before they sag.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Think of it in terms of liability. If magazines failed to do what they are designed to do, the manufacturers would have been sued out of business long ago.

There' no real reason to underload or swap mags to let them "rest," but if it makes you feel better, go for it. Maybe you could toss a bit of salt over your shoulder and make sure not to step on any cracks while you're at it. <shrug>


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Paul that was spot on. 
Modern magazine springs are pretty tough. Stretching or compressing a spring beyond it's normal operating range is one way to shorten its life. How one could possibly achieve that condition with a spring which is contained within a magazine is beyond me, since it's normal operating range is dictated by length of the magazine.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I think I should modify the heat treatment for springs. The one stated is the right way to do it for springs that will be used in an oil bath situation but in a magazine they don't get bathed by oil so after heating them you put them into a cold oil bath. (a bowl of ice and water with a container of oil in it and brought to the 35F temperature before the springs are dropped in. The oil bath just keeps them from rusting and that is another thing that can destroy springs. On another note the flat type magazine springs that are common to bolt action rifles the heat treating is the same but the construction requires a generous radius at each bend - that is the part that gets stressed and it needs to be a large enough radius to allow the spring legs (the flat part) to stack without closing the radius more than a third of the way. If they close farther the spring will eventually break near the middle of the radius. I mush prefer wire wound springs if I can make them fit the application.


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## Reptilicus (Jan 4, 2014)

An ounce of precaution is worth 10 pounds of worry! If they don't need to be rotated and you do it anyway, well no harm, no foul. But if they should be rotated and you don't then too bad, so sad!!


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

My Ruger 10 22 Magazines Have Failed From Being Loaded.
My Old Two Shell Magazine For A Bolt Action Twelve Gauge Failed From Being Loaded.
The Feed Tube Magazine On Two Different 870 Shot Guns Failed From Being Loaded
The Magazine For My Ruger 22Pistol Failed From Being Loaded.

For Any Of You Who Are Saying Modern Magazines Springs Don't Fail.

You Do Not Know What You Are Talking About From Simple Lack Of Experience.

Swap Them Out.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Interesting post, wonder if springs for occasional shooting command the same tolerances as for mil duty? Just as an aside note, what is the need for umteen loaded mags? Don't flame me yet, I like to be prepared, but some fore warning will allow us to stuff our mags. mho


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

1skrewsloose said:


> Interesting post, wonder if springs for occasional shooting command the same tolerances as for mil duty? Just as an aside note, what is the need for umteen loaded mags? Don't flame me yet, I like to be prepared, but some fore warning will allow us to stuff our mags. mho


Not umpteen. I keep 2 pistol mags, and 2 FAL mag loaded all the time&#8230;just in case.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Understood At times I go beyond the norm. Peace.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

alterego said:


> My Ruger 10 22 Magazines Have Failed From Being Loaded.
> My Old Two Shell Magazine For A Bolt Action Twelve Gauge Failed From Being Loaded.
> The Feed Tube Magazine On Two Different 870 Shot Guns Failed From Being Loaded
> The Magazine For My Ruger 22Pistol Failed From Being Loaded.
> ...


I just fired my Ruger Mark 1 for the first time in over 10 years last Saturday. It worked flawlessly even though it had been loaded that whole time. My Mossberg 500-ATP-8 has been loaded since 1989 (except for when I fire it and then load it back up) and it works just fine. I am not saying that you are not telling the truth I just am sure there is more to the failure than just leaving it loaded. Rust? maybe or you are just the unluckiest person I have ever met. All my guns are and have always been kept fully loaded. That is since 1969 - I think forty-five years of experience is pretty good. Two tube fed 22's, 3 Tube fed shotguns, two 22 pistols (a Ruger and a High standard), a 45 ACP and a 9mm and finally a tube fed 30-30. I've not had any problems with magazine springs on any of them.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Bottom line is, if you're worried, use a single shot, no mag, contender. Just kidding, does anyone have any stats on mags kept fully charged vs. partial?


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Well, you have my 45 years of experience - it wouldn't make any difference if they had been partially loaded. I know that some AR mags have had troubles - the thirty round mags seem to have spring problems when loaded to the full loading so they only load 20 - 25 rounds in them - that might be because the spring pressure is too high when fully loaded or that the springs are made incorrectly for the larger mags. I don't have any hands on experience on those so maybe someone who does can share.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I was taught only put 20 rounds in a 30 round mag, 15 in a 20 and 8 in a 10.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> Think of it in terms of liability. If magazines failed to do what they are designed to do, the manufacturers would have been sued out of business long ago.
> 
> There' no real reason to underload or swap mags to let them "rest," but if it makes you feel better, go for it. Maybe you could toss a bit of salt over your shoulder and make sure not to step on any cracks while you're at it. <shrug>


Doodle? Are you mocking us?


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## Innkeeper (Jun 18, 2014)

PaulS said:


> Well, you have my 45 years of experience - it wouldn't make any difference if they had been partially loaded. I know that some AR mags have had troubles - the thirty round mags seem to have spring problems when loaded to the full loading so they only load 20 - 25 rounds in them - that might be because the spring pressure is too high when fully loaded or that the springs are made incorrectly for the larger mags. I don't have any hands on experience on those so maybe someone who does can share.


I never had an issue keeping 30 rounds in my mags in country and never had a problem feeding all 30 when I shot. I do swap out my mags at home every other week, so that no springs are ever compressed for too long, same goes for my carry pistol. But I do go shooting a couple times a week which helps keep the tension off the mags, but so far no failures. I even have the mags I deployed with any time they give me grief trying to turn something in and say it is not on your TA-50 I just took it home and quit arguing, though I did try turning in my IBA and Kevlar 3 times before I stopped. I swear every deployment they gave us new gear and only half of the stuff ended up in your records. My PSG has 3 sets of Rifleman's gear in plastic still.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Gosh Innkeeper, it's really too bad that the military gave you that stuff - what use would you have for it in country... (sarcasm off)

I am glad to see that my tax money is doing you some good! Too bad you could have gotten a decent gun out of the deal too. In Switzerland the military can keep their issue weapons when they get out. They are required to shoot so many rounds a month too but that's not too hard. There are more shooting ranges than golf ranges in Switzerland.


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## Innkeeper (Jun 18, 2014)

PaulS said:


> Gosh Innkeeper, it's really too bad that the military gave you that stuff - what use would you have for it in country... (sarcasm off)
> 
> I am glad to see that my tax money is doing you some good! Too bad you could have gotten a decent gun out of the deal too. In Switzerland the military can keep their issue weapons when they get out. They are required to shoot so many rounds a month too but that's not too hard. There are more shooting ranges than golf ranges in Switzerland.


When I first started shooting on My Guard Units rifle team we used M-14's and used to be able to check them out of the armory and keep them at home, I had a little apartment behind the Sherriff's station and had a friend on the force, first time I was out off town for the weekend and asked him to have the officers keep an eye out for lights in my windows because I had a fully automatic Military issue weapon in the house the look on his face was priceless. :shock: After explaining it all to him he said not a problem, I always had the best protected place in town. He ended up being a friend over the years and today my buddy is the Sherriff, but sadly after they switched to M-16's we were no longer allowed to check weapons out. My M-14 was awesome though Fiberglass bedded and all stock parts replaced by National Match Grade parts was a great shooting rifle.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I think swapping out magazines keeps one in tune with one's equipment. In addition to swapping them out, take the time to clean them too. Its always fun to watch a spring fly across the room.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

It has been taught in the military to rotate mags...not as an official part of any course...just NCO to soldier over the years. I have always done it but have never tested it. As far as Not fully loading magazines. This is actually something very useful and true. I have always loaded 30 rds mags with 27...and before with the 20 rds mags with 18. THis reduced the tension and when swapping mags it makes it easier to lock it in place. If you wait until your mag is empty and the bolt locks to the rear it makes no difference. But we do not wait until then to swap mags normally so we usually swap them with the bolt forward. For those of you with M4 style weapons, try loading a fully loaded mag with the bolt forward and you will see why we do that. As for me...I will rotate my mags every 6 months or so. I ere on the side of caution.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

paraquack said:


> I was taught only put 20 rounds in a 30 round mag, 15 in a 20 and 8 in a 10.


I thought that had to do with two things one minimizing the potential for jamming on the first round, and two facilitate a more positive magazine insertion as there is less pressure on the top round of a partially loaded magazine vs a fully loaded magazine.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Old SF Guy said:


> It has been taught in the military to rotate mags...not as an official part of any course...just NCO to soldier over the years. I have always done it but have never tested it. As far as Not fully loading magazines. This is actually something very useful and true. I have always loaded 30 rds mags with 27...and before with the 20 rds mags with 18. THis reduced the tension and when swapping mags it makes it easier to lock it in place. If you wait until your mag is empty and the bolt locks to the rear it makes no difference. But we do not wait until then to swap mags normally so we usually swap them with the bolt forward. For those of you with M4 style weapons, try loading a fully loaded mag with the bolt forward and you will see why we do that. As for me...I will rotate my mags every 6 months or so. I ere on the side of caution.


Like you, while in the military I was taught to rotate the magazines. I don't believe that all or even most magazine springs will lose their tension if left compressed for years at a time, but I do believe that some might, so why take the chance? I routinely rotate my magazines, but then I usually clean the gun at the same time and I am sure someone will pop up and say that they keep a firearm in their closet for 20 years without cleaning it and then took it out and it fired fine. Good for them but as for me, I would rather not take the chance that something could go wrong. Better safe then sorry.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I leave my new Berretta 92 magazines fully loaded hoping some of the steam will come out of the springs. So far no luck with that, they are stiff from beginning to end. I have resorted to using an Uplula loader at the range to save wear and tear on the fingers.
That said I do have one old and nasty looking 92 magazine that looks as if it belongs in the trash yet it loads easily and performs flawlessly.


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

I do not rotate mags, ever..However, i do keep extra mag springs around just in case. I have a Gen2 Glock 19 that I have put 9,205rds through, yes i keep count. And have replaced the springs in the gun every 3,000rds just to keep it fresh. But have never replaced the mag springs. Still performs flawlessly..


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Springs, by design, only change when they move.
Under full compression, the metal is not changing.
Under no compression, the metal is not changing.
They don't become weaker, they don't "rest", they only wear under use.
The only way to wear out a spring is to cycle it from full compression to no compression regularly.

I keep all magazines full and ready.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Then why do springs (not necessarily in mags) take a set and change length when allowed to be compressed for a long time?

I do agree with keeping your magazines clean. Too much junk can bind up the follower and that's all she wrote. I have to wait for my wife to go shopping for a few hours before I can clean them. The make too much noise in the washer and even more noise in the dryer. No I don't use heat in the dryer, I run the dryer on room temp air now that I'm in AZ. Oh yeah!, Remember to unload the mags before you wash them!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'm only referencing info from a thread many years ago that involved a physicist.
According to him, constant stress applied to a spring will not wear it out. Any "set" would be minimal, and almost unnoticeable.
Perhaps he was referring to only a particular type of metal?
What example have you seen of "set" occurring?


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If you are talking about automotive springs taking a set and changing length just think about what those springs are doing as you drive down the road. Even on a nice smooth highway they are constantly moving - not a lot but they constantly move. That build internal heat and that will cause them to sage (change length). Auto springs are also variable rate springs - they are wound tighter at the top which makes it stiffer. The coils at the bottom are full diameter and they take less push to move. A new set of car springs is designed to collapse to a loaded length after a few days. Once they reach that point they only collapse further from the constant flexing of the suspension. Valve springs wear quicker than any other spring. The flex from installed height to collapsed height once for every revolution - that means that as you drive down the freeway at 2800 rpm your springs are flexing 2800 times a minute. The only reason that they last as long as they do is that they are cooled by the engine oil.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I would be far more concerned about the long term storage of ammo than I would be about the springs.

Ammo can become unreliable over time because of fluctuations in temperature and humidity, among other things.

Of course, I've only been shooting for 40 years, so what do I know?

Edited to add:

By the way, I was also taught to load short and swap mags in the army. The guy who told me this no doubt learned it from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from someone long ago. The fact that this information is taught doesn't make it applicable today, however.

Still, it's easy enough to do, so if it makes you feel better, do it.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I understand that springs will fatigue and break from repetitive flexing. Some of the machines I've worked on over the years have springs that just keep a constant tension, no movement. Yet every couple of years I'd have to replace them. My boss wanted me to just stretch them out and re-use, but...


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Springs, by design, only change when they move.
> Under full compression, the metal is not changing.
> Under no compression, the metal is not changing.
> They don't become weaker, they don't "rest", they only wear under use.
> ...


I can only fill up half of my mags because I lack enough ammo to fill them all up.
The other half rest .


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I noticed on some of my mags and my calendar that 8/13 was my six month rotation anniversary. 
Time for the bi annual mag swap out.

I didn't see any magazine springs in my metallurgy classes.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mag springs do not need to rest. That is an old myth that refuses to die.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Mag springs do not need to rest. That is an old myth that refuses to die.


I didn't see any springs in class.
Kahr says in the manual to buy extra mags just so you can rest the mag springs,but what do they know,they only build guns.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Springs that are not properly heat treated can lose tension or break.... Maybe Kahr does know something that they aren't telling their customers...

Rapid cycling of a spring generates internal heat. Heat is the only thing that can make a spring lose tension - other than corrosion and over-compression (beyond specifications).


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> I didn't see any springs in class.
> Kahr says in the manual to buy extra mags just so you can rest the mag springs,but what do they know,they only build guns.


Correction, they "sell" guns.
You buy more mags, they make more money. They don't have to tell you the real reason.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

keith9365 said:


> I have 4 mags for my 9mm pistol. I keep 2 loaded with gold dots and 2 empty. I rotate the mags every so often to allow the springs to "rest". Does anyone else do this? Just wondering if I worry about nothing.


I keep some mags loaded for decades (yes I mean 10 years at a time) and they feed reliably all the time.

Not saying it is bad idea, just saying


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

keith9365 said:


> I have 4 mags for my 9mm pistol. I keep 2 loaded with gold dots and 2 empty. I rotate the mags every so often to allow the springs to "rest". Does anyone else do this? Just wondering if I worry about nothing.


Yes, I do it with all of my magazine fed weapons.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Correction, they "sell" guns.
> You buy more mags, they make more money. They don't have to tell you the real reason.


Then I have more mags in case I don't have my New York Reload with me.


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