# Shorth barrel rifle project tax stamp question??



## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Hello all,
Anyone have any guidance on getting the tax stamp for short barrel rifle? I go on-line and I see ATF form 1 but after that my mind short circuits
with all of the stuff the internet is throwing at me. Trusts? Why do I need a trust for this? Finger printing and meeting with the sheriff over this? 
Right now I'm inclined to leave my project quietly in the corner for SHTF and not carry it around anywhere and heck with putting myself on another list and the 200 dollars!
What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance!

SDF880


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

If you get caught with it they will make an example out of you most likely. If it is no assembled or an 18 inch plus barrel is on it you may be in the clear. You could always swap it out if you feel confident.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Get a revocable gun trust, This way its easier to get the NFA stamp. You can also put anyone with clean record as a trustee who could use the NFA item. If you have a gun trust you don't have to get finger printed or need to get CLEO signature. Trust is well worth it so go do it.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

what did the sheriff dpt say? 
next I fail to understand this interest in short barrel crap other than "HEY look what I got"
it seems cutting down a full power rifle that also cuts down the power part and accuracy when you could just get one of those fancy assault looking pistols like a PPsh43 or something? just my complete and full ignorance on this need to have such a thing is all -you may ignore me and carry on now.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I like the idea of being able to put this folding stock 5.56 in a backpack no more no less!


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A "short barrelled rifle" is easier to conceal than a "standard rifle" and more accurate than a pistol. It's another "scary gun" that people have no need to own - despite the fact that they have been used by the military in the form of sub machine guns for ages. They were used in the cowboy days and consisted of a revolver with a detachable shoulder stock that connected to the hand grip of the pistol. There are examples of muzzle loader pistols that were fitted with detachable shoulder stocks too. Short barrelled rifles have been used by law men, soldiers and crooks alike. 

When I made a long barrel for my 22 handgun and I wanted to make it into a rifle I had to attach the shoulder stock to the long barrel so the stock could not be used with the short barrel. It was necessary to prevent the possibility of my using it as a short barrelled rifle. Why prosecute crime when you can prevent it with intrusive and crippling laws?


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## talon115 (May 28, 2015)

Call or stop by your nearest ATF office.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

talon115 said:


> Call or stop by your nearest ATF office.


That should get a person on Obummers radar real quick. Think I would skip that step.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

minus the suppressor - It' not a battle rifle but it brings a lot to the table! I'm working on getting the Stamp.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

If you just call their local office with a question, they want your name, tel. number, address, blood type and DNA. 
I called them many years ago for the number to the NFA branch, they wanted to know who I was and why I wanted to call them.
The rest of the call was nasty.


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

SDF880 said:


> Hello all,
> Anyone have any guidance on getting the tax stamp for short barrel rifle? I go on-line and I see ATF form 1 but after that my mind short circuits
> with all of the stuff the internet is throwing at me. Trusts? Why do I need a trust for this? Finger printing and meeting with the sheriff over this?
> Right now I'm inclined to leave my project quietly in the corner for SHTF and not carry it around anywhere and heck with putting myself on another list and the 200 dollars!
> ...


I'm in the process of having my SCAR 16 SBRed right now, so I'll try to help. The Form 1 is the biggest hurtle to leap. You can do it as an individual, or as a trust. Either way, you'll have to do extra paperwork. The Trust is probably the better option, since once you get it set up, you can pretty much keep using it for other Form 1s or Form 4s. If you go the individual route, like I did, you'll have to see your local sheriff, and get him to sign off on your paperwork. In addition, you'll have to include two passport photos, and pay for and get finger printed. After that, and one additional form (which may have been added to the new Form 1, not sure), you send in all of your paper work, and a $200 check. The ATF will be quick to cash your check, but approving the Form 1 will take time. Current wait time seems to be about 4 months. I sent mine in in late March, and I'm still waiting. Once your Form 1 is approved, you still have one last step, as you'll need to get your lower receiver (or whatever is the serial numbered portion of the rifle being SBRed) engraved with either your name (if filed as an individual), or the name of your Trust, and where it was "manufactured" (aka, where you live).


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Don't ask, don't tell.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Thanks Alpha! What a pain to do this and still hard to figure out why they do this? I have the SBR's bigger brother the SU-16C with a 16 inch barrel.
The Keltec PLR-16 5.56 pistol has the same barrel as my SU-16D but it is legal right out of the box in pistol form. 2 legal weapons but take the stock off the
SU-16C and put it on the PLR-16 to make a SU-16D that is illegal. All seems a bit crazy too me! Thanks again for the info! My mind just clouds every time I look into this!


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Just buy a pistol with a Sig arm brace. Why do you guys even want to draw attention to your self with a stupid stamp?? Will that SBR and a 7 inch barrel be that much more accurate cause the stock is 2-3 inches longer. Think about it for a little bit, geez. 

Heck why throw $200 bucks away for a permission slip from the government. Send the extra cash to me I'll come up with a "GOOD" use for it.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-a...-possess-parts-manufacture-sbr-or-sbs-long-no

Perhaps the ATF web page will help answer your questions. However If I read your post correctly you already have the parts to make the SBR and if you're not registered with ATF then you are already violating the law.

Any ATF agent reading your post could make that inference and subpoena Denton and the site for your information.

Perhaps it's an honest mistake, and if so you'll only have a couple of hours dealing with the local SA . If not the fine is substantial and the loss of your rights to own firearms can be traumatic


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

SARGE7402 said:


> https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-a...-possess-parts-manufacture-sbr-or-sbs-long-no
> 
> Perhaps the ATF web page will help answer your questions. However If I read your post correctly you already have the parts to make the SBR and if you're not registered with ATF then you are already violating the law.
> 
> ...


He hasn't suggested that he has cut the barrel as of yet, but that this is a project he wishes to pursue. He also states he wants to do it in the legal manner, which is certainly a good thing.

Rest assured, I am watching this thread in case there is something that needs removing. Chipper came real close, but I took that as an editorial than an actual suggestion/offer as it was over the top.

Along with your suggestion to read read your offered link, I'd also suggest having someone who is skilled at such alterations do it. No need in ruining a rifle, and precise threading is needed in case you want to cough up another 200 for a suppressor stamp.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Do think you would be better off building an AR pistol. If you decided you needed more support for your firing arm you could go with the sig brace. To register an AR lower as a pistol does not cost you the tax stamp. The only problem is your intent, if they can prove you intended to build a SBR and intentionally skirted the NFA then you are subject to a lot of problems. It does not pay to have a barrel shorter than 16 inches unless you already have an AR pistol lower or one registered as a SBR. 

If I could (PRNY does not allow the Surfs to have one) I would do the paperwork for a SBR and pay the tax stamp.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Chipper said:


> Just buy a pistol with a Sig arm brace. Why do you guys even want to draw attention to your self with a stupid stamp?? Will that SBR and a 7 inch barrel be that much more accurate cause the stock is 2-3 inches longer. Think about it for a little bit, geez.
> 
> Heck why throw $200 bucks away for a permission slip from the government. Send the extra cash to me I'll come up with a "GOOD" use for it.


 I wasn't implying anything illegal. Just that the $200 should go for ammo, mags, food, fuel, etc. Instead of another tax and being on a list. That's all.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Thanks for replies everyone! After further review I have decided to go a different direction, no SBR.

Thanks,

SDF880


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Chipper said:


> I wasn't implying anything illegal. Just that the $200 should go for ammo, mags, food, fuel, etc. Instead of another tax and being on a list. That's all.


Mags!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Chipper said:


> I wasn't implying anything illegal. Just that the $200 should go for ammo, mags, food, fuel, etc. Instead of another tax and being on a list. That's all.


200 bones gets me about 8 bottles of Elijah Craig Bourbon Small Batch...or nearly 1000 rounds of 9mm...or Mrs Slippy off my ass for an hour or so...Oh nevermind.


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

Slippy said:


> 200 bones gets me about 8 bottles of Elijah Craig Bourbon Small Batch...or nearly 1000 rounds of 9mm...or Mrs Slippy off my ass for an hour or so...Oh nevermind.


Just found the Small Batch this year. My new favorite.


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

Chipper said:


> I wasn't implying anything illegal. Just that the $200 should go for ammo, mags, food, fuel, etc. Instead of another tax and being on a list. That's all.


I'll agree with this, but sadly, with the laws as written, a $200 tax stamp is a minor PITA compared to the ATF coming down hard. They've already changed their minds on the Sig brace, who knows if/when they'll try to enforce that decision. And for weapons like my SCAR, which has no pistol variant to put a brace on, an SBR is the only way to run one in the 10.5" configuration. I'd love to see the NFA struck down, but until then, I'll play their game.


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