# Generator vs Generator w Inverter



## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Champion Power Equipment 75531i 3100 Watt RV Ready Portable Inverter Generator $766 amazon

or

WEN 56352, 3000 Running Watts/3500 Starting Watts, Gas Powered Portable Generator $272 amazon

The later has no inverter.
I searched and read up on the 
difference and it didn't seem like it
was worth the price? 

Is it?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Doesn't a generator produce electricity with an alternator? An alternator already produces AC current. Why would an inverter be needed?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> Doesn't a generator produce electricity with an alternator? An alternator already produces AC current. Why would an inverter be needed?


The pure output of an alternator is indeed AC, but they are normally immediately followed up with a diode rectifier to convert it to pulsing DC.
I would need to read up on the tech a bit, but my first guess is that the AC straight from the alternator would be a "dirty" signal, and running it through a rectifier and inverter setup would clean up the voltage so there is less chance of harming things plugged into the outlet.
Since I recently bought a generator, I should probably learn about this. More research is needed.

TO THE INTERWEBS!!!


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> The pure output of an alternator is indeed AC, but they are normally immediately followed up with a diode rectifier to convert it to pulsing DC.
> I would need to read up on the tech a bit, but my first guess is that the AC straight from the alternator would be a "dirty" signal, and running it through a rectifier and inverter setup would clean up the voltage so there is less chance of harming things plugged into the outlet.


That makes sense.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

What I could find from a very helpful site:


> Quality of Power Produced
> 
> A conventional or silenced generator is essentially an engine connected to an alternator and run at a speed that produces the desired AC frequency, regardless of the load on it (as the load increases the engine throttles up to keep the engine speed the same). The output of the alternator is connected directly to the load, without any processing. As we talk about the inverter technology in the next paragraph, it becomes clear why quality of power becomes a key point for many when they choose a generator model.
> 
> ...


Source: Choosing between a conventional, silenced or an inverter generator - Greengear

Inverted generators are often quieter, since their engine speed will vary depending on load. They also save more fuel because of this.

I guess I have a dirty genny, no inverter. That's what I'm gonna name her now, Dirty Jenny. :tango_face_grin:


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Good input and great link. Now wouldn't it be less expensive to go
generator and use it to charge a battery? Battery's are not that 
much. Then can't you use the battery for your power source
evenly?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Stockton said:


> Good input and great link. Now wouldn't it be less expensive to go
> generator and use it to charge a battery? Battery's are not that
> much. Then can't you use the battery for your power source
> evenly?


If you store your power in batteries, you need to invert again to get AC for household appliances. Deep cycle batteries and large DC cables aren't cheap. My small 2-battery/inverter setup cost > $600. And you will need a battery charger to accept the generators output to charge the batteries.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Stockton said:


> Good input and great link. Now wouldn't it be less expensive to go
> generator and use it to charge a battery? Battery's are not that
> much. Then can't you use the battery for your power source
> evenly?


If your end goal was to run AC devices, this would be a poor alternative, as the conversion would make the process inefficient.
(AC from the generator, AC to DC conversion for the battery charger, DC to AC conversion using an inverter)
Now, if you are running the delicate devices with micro controllers, then it may be worth it to keep them humming with clean power.
But for running your fridge/freezer, lamps, pumps, etc... it might not be the best option. You'd be losing power during the conversion steps.

Also, if you wanted to run things that normally only need DC power, like phone chargers and such, then charging a battery would be fine, since you won't need to convert again from DC to AC.
Although, for that use, a solar panel might be a better option. You waste no fuel, get straight DC power from source to battery, and it's completely silent. Just a little slower, usually.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

What are you using the generator for? Will it have alternative uses where a decibel reduction is a plus. Will you possibly run electronics and have clean power concerns? If so get a inverter/generator. I have Champion inverters consisting of (2) 2000 watt units that are stackable and can be run parallel, and a 3400 watt duel fuel unit. Mine are portable and can serve in multiple recreation, camping, home backup power, and other applications.

One more thing .... if your generator goes clankity, clank, clank .... it is not an inverter/generator. See Champions website for a full lineup.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

My thoughts were running essentials in our home
when the power is out. Lights I am not too worried
about. I've been buying those $3 cree flashlights for
a long time. I must have two dozen. Small battery
charging would be one thing. Fridge and freezer would
be ideal but I doubt there is enough power in a small
generator and inverter for that.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I have two inverters paired, cleaner power and energy efficient.....half the fuel of a regular generator with the same output, inverters are more expensive. But you get what you pay for, JMO.....


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Stockton said:


> My thoughts were running essentials in our home
> when the power is out. Lights I am not too worried
> about. I've been buying those $3 cree flashlights for
> a long time. I must have two dozen. Small battery
> ...


Perhaps you don't need a generator to do what you need.

My two battery system: 2 x 78 amp hour Duracell AGM in parallel, Xantrex 1000 W pure sine wave inverter, Iota DSL30 30 amp battery charger.

It will run my deep freezer for 5 1/2 days, using just 50% of the capacity, or it will run the TV, cable box, wifi, and LED room lights for days, or it will wash 5-7 loads of laundry. This is all tested and proven.

I top it up from the mains once a week and it's there when I need it. No generator, if the power is out for an extended period, I have a 100 watt solar panel for charging. I also have a 150 watt inverter with battery clips to handle small tasks such as charging phones and other devices, and to run battery chargers for NiMHydride and 18650 cells for flashlights, etc. An additional 7 watt solar panel is in reserve for battery charging, too.

I tried to keep the system simple, cheap, and with multiple redundancies.

Don't forget your vehicle battery, that can also be used in an emergency. Keep the wires short from the battery to the inverter. Once it's inverted to 120 AC, you can run an extension 100 feet or more into the house. AC travels well with small resistive loss.


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## Brettny (Apr 26, 2017)

The two major difference in those units are one is an inverter generator. It produces clean more stable power that is safe for electronics. Its also quiet and can vary the engine rpm via its load.
The cheaper one is a brushed generator that has to run max rpm all the time and does not produce clean power and will shorten the life of most any electronic equipment attached to it. It will also destroy fuel like its free.

You really need to think about what you want to run with the generator and how much its worth to you.
I think thr biggest thing that people want to run is a fridge. There not cheap to replace and can hold hundreds of dollars of food. Is it really worth cheaping out?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Stockton said:


> Fridge and freezer would
> be ideal but I doubt there is enough power in a small
> generator and inverter for that.


Every fridge and freezer I've ever owned has a label inside detailing the wattage needed and saved to run the unit.
Inverter gennies can go up to 4KW output, which would be overkill for just running a fridge.

If you've removed those labels, a "Kill-a-Watt" device can give you an exact expectation of what is needed for any device plugged into it.
They are great for honing your power needs when choosing an alternative power source.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Anything with a card and chips needs an inverter generator. So lights, fridge, and freezer are ok with a straight generator. TV, computer, and in my case a Harman Pellet Stove all need the clean power of the inverter genny. All modern energy efficient furnaces are electronic control and need the inverter. I bought a Honda inverter generator to power the pellet stove. Still have it, too. But have since bought a hand fired coal stove so I don't worry about heating during power outages anymore.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

My system is fairly simple, and covers most situations. I have three ep-31 batteries, paired with two 100 watt solar panels and a 30hp mother/generator. Run through a xantrex 1100 inverter. I can run and charge power tools all DAY, and run lights ALL night. These batteries are 4 years old, and I have run then down to 6 volts...three times. Embarrassing, but not lethal. The whole thing cost 12k and came with a fully furnished sail boat! Two bedrooms, two burner stove, oven, 50gal water storage, 20 gal black water storage, unlimited Mileage with some wind.
Point is; shop around, you can get all the electronics you need for free, if your willing to work a bit. Buy an rv or a boat, gut it, sell the rest and call it good.


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## Brettny (Apr 26, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> Every fridge and freezer I've ever owned has a label inside detailing the wattage needed and saved to run the unit.
> Inverter gennies can go up to 4KW output, which would be overkill for just running a fridge.
> 
> If you've removed those labels, a "Kill-a-Watt" device can give you an exact expectation of what is needed for any device plugged into it.
> They are great for honing your power needs when choosing an alternative power source.


A kill a watt. Is a wonderfull tool. My first month owning one i cut my electric bill down $75...not bad for a $20 tool. I also like its wattage tracking feature.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Stockton said:


> Champion Power Equipment 75531i 3100 Watt RV Ready Portable Inverter Generator $766 amazon
> 
> or
> 
> ...


Yes, . . . there is a difference between the two tools, . . .

BUT, . . . are we talking running the cotton pickin thing all year on the generator, . . . or is this a SHTF generator.

Obviously a 500 dollar difference can go a long way towards some serious SHTF needs, . . . if you are only using the generator once a year when the power goes out.

If you are planning on going self sufficient, . . . then it is a different story.

My 375 dollar gasoline generator was bought some 5 years or so ago, . . . right after an extended power outage. I've never used it. I will if need be, . . . but so far the Lord has watched over me.

OTOH, . . . I have an inverter for lighting and telephones, . . . am going to upgrade it so it will also handle my computer and router.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I have a dual fuel 10000 watt generator to run the whole house except the AC units. It has always been my plan to get another smaller generator for back up but now I am thinking an inverter generator is needed as the back up.


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## Brettny (Apr 26, 2017)

10kw and you cant run an AC? How big is this ac? What kind of propane tank are you running a 10kw on?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Brettny said:


> 10kw and you cant run an AC? How big is this ac? What kind of propane tank are you running a 10kw on?


I have a feeling he means that he's prioritized other things over the AC for the benefit of a longer runtime on one tank of fuel.
Plus, the starting of an AC's compressor can cause a tremendous draw on the generator, which might have adverse effects for other items plugged in at the time.

Just a guess.


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## preppermyA (Aug 19, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> I have a feeling he means that he's prioritized other things over the AC for the benefit of a longer runtime on one tank of fuel.
> Plus, the starting of an AC's compressor can cause a tremendous draw on the generator, which might have adverse effects for other items plugged in at the time.
> 
> Just a guess.


I tend to agree. I went with an 8k standby gen that runs off a 400 gallon propane tank. I was only concerned with running the well pump, kitchen circuits, and the bedroom circuit.
The heat is a floor furnace which doesn't require any electricity.
On the few times it was actually needed, it ran everything including the 5000 BTU A/C in the bedroom.
.
I was on here for several years until about two years ago under another name. I just couldn't remember all the details, so my first post isn't really my first post. I think I'll stick around this time.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

preppermyA said:


> The heat is a floor furnace which doesn't require any electricity.


OK, I'm intrigued, what kind of floor furnace doesn't require any electricity?

*Rancher*


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## Dubyagee (Nov 9, 2012)

Ive seen heaters that are a huge grate in a hall floor. No electricity.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

Where did the huge grate in the hall floor get it's heat from?

*Rancher*


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## Dubyagee (Nov 9, 2012)

Gas. Radiant.


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## preppermyA (Aug 19, 2017)

azrancher said:


> OK, I'm intrigued, what kind of floor furnace doesn't require any electricity?
> 
> *Rancher*


Here's a link to one. There are others. OOPS (Unfortunately, since this is only my second post under my new specs; see my last post; they won't let me put links in.)
Just goooggley efireplace store or Empire floor furnaces. Mine is 65K and heats the whole house.
I use a setback thermostat which runs on 2 AA batteries, although most of the time I leave it on one setting.


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