# Post EMP, 400 chernobyls?



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

This guy, Matthew Stein is giving me a red pill. He's making me realize that a full fledged EMP could be even more grave than Ted Koppel's "Lights Out" or any fiction book I've read on the subject describes.

Think of what could happen if the nuclear power plants shut down and they can't run the cooling systems for the reactors. Now when the Fukushima plant had it's meltdown, the radioactive waste went into the ocean. But our power plants, which are more in line with Chernobyl's, well we're screwed.

Do you live nearby a power plant? We have two here in NJ.....If you get a chance, catch this video.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I guess my old CD gieger counter will be reading much higher! I'm prepared for just about anything but a N event.
I'll grab the counter and a 12 pack of my Gluten free beer and sit outside and no SPF10000 needed.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

That to me is the biggest immediate concern. If it doesn’t happen number two will be massive death and the fall of civilization as we know it.


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## pakrat (Nov 18, 2012)

You can’t really compare the Chernobyl and Fukushima plants with American designed systems. While there may well be vulnerabilities with the American plants, the failure scenarios are much fewer, operator and support staff training and emergency response is quite superior and controlled shutdown capabilities are much better developed. I’m not saying that we couldn’t have any negative impacts at our nuke plants from an EMP, but not at the chaotic and catastrophic proportions seen in Russia and Japan. There would still be long-term fuel storage issues, however. It all makes for great fear stoking and dooms day book selling.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

pakrat said:


> You can't really compare the Chernobyl and Fukushima plants with American designed systems. .......... It all makes for great fear stoking and dooms day book selling.


Our plants can be shut down safely, . . . with no problem, . . . I don't doubt that for one moment.

But because the EMP took out the grid, . . . and it will be months at least before they are back up and running, . . . I fear the intervening time.

Food will be short, . . . no gasoline, . . . no police protection, . . . full marshal law where it can be enforced, . . . thugs both running wild, . . . and dying by the dozens every day, . . . and no doubt, there will be other things come into play that would scare the bejeebers out of us if we knew them today.

But the book sellers can smoke cuban stogies, sip french wine, and eat expensive caviar while they discuss who actually hit the scenario on the head the best, . . . (yeah), . . . (right).

May God bless,
Dwight


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

In my 70+ years, I have quite literally dodged death on numerous occasions.

When God is ready to call me home, it shall be done. And since I don't know when that will be, I don't waste time worrying about it. It's beyond my control.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

pakrat said:


> You can't really compare the Chernobyl and Fukushima plants with American designed systems. While there may well be vulnerabilities with the American plants, the failure scenarios are much fewer, operator and support staff training and emergency response is quite superior and controlled shutdown capabilities are much better developed. I'm not saying that we couldn't have any negative impacts at our nuke plants from an EMP, but not at the chaotic and catastrophic proportions seen in Russia and Japan. There would still be long-term fuel storage issues, however. It all makes for great fear stoking and dooms day book selling.


This guy (Matthew Stein ,RIP) said these nuclear facilities generally have a three month energy supply on hand to keep the systems cooing in the event of an emergency shutdown. Assuming the event was an actual EMP, who's to say the government could keep deliveries going on a timely basis, especially if this happens on a wide scale? I'd hope they could,but given the enormity of the responsibility who could actually rely on that?


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Per Annie: "these nuclear facilities generally have a three month energy supply on hand"

That reminds me of an old science fiction program I was watching, could have been The Twilight Zone. The public was told that in the event of Soviet attack, there was food and shelter already provided. When the last few survivor stragglers found the shelter, there was food--case after case of saltine crackers.

You know the old canard, "_Split your knees, duck your head and kiss your ass good-bye.._."


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Any Nuclear-related event is very unlikely to happen here. There are only two active nuclear power plants in my country (with a third being built), and I live thousands of kilometers away from it. Of course there would be problems with it in case of an EMP, but at such distance, radiation would not likely affect me.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

I don't know about an emp, but an earthquake and nuclear power plants could be a scary and I believe far more likely combination. I'm sure the plants where constructed with this in mind but there are several in proximity to the New Madrid fault line. I'm not particuarly worried about a nuclear meltdown but then again I don't have one in my backyard or anywhere near my backyard.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I don't know about an emp, but an earthquake and nuclear power plants could be a scary and I believe far more likely combination. I'm sure the plants where constructed with this in mind but there are several in proximity to the New Madrid fault line. I'm not particuarly worried about a nuclear meltdown but then again I don't have one in my backyard or anywhere near my backyard.


Well, an earthquake would presumably be regional. So the supplies needed to keep the thing cooled and from blowing upcould be shipped from another part of the country. If on the other we get socked with an EMP, then depending on how much of the country is effected, we're screwed.


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## Green Lilly (Nov 8, 2018)

This is actually something that really concerns me. Besides an EMP, there are other ways to negatively impact a nuclear power plant that are on my mind. Terrorist attack, natural phenomenon like earthquakes or tsunami's, societal breakdown or financial breakdown that prevents workers or supplies making it to the plants. In my opinion just about every scenario could potentially cause trouble for our nuclear facilities, even if it is local.

Thanks for posting this Annie. This reminded me that I want to get a supply of potassium iodide to have on hand. I live on the east coast just outside the 10 mile radius of a nuclear plant and Cumbre Vieja in the Canaries is of particular concern to me. Does anyone have any suggestions on brands for potassium iodide?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Green Lilly said:


> Thanks for posting this Annie. This reminded me that I want to get a supply of potassium iodide to have on hand. I live on the east coast just outside the 10 mile radius of a nuclear plant and Cumbre Vieja in the Canaries is of particular concern to me. Does anyone have any suggestions on brands for potassium iodide?


Yeah, me too. The forum has a really good resource here, thanks to @Illini Warrior.

I'm thinking some sort of nuclear event is very highly probable and I've been putting off buying the potassium iodide. I'm thinking it's time to get some.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

So are the control systems/electronics inside a nuke plant designed to survive an EMP?

If not, it don't matter how much back up power you have, things will stop working.........


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> So are the control systems/electronics inside a nuke plant designed to survive an EMP?
> 
> If not, it don't matter how much back up power you have, things will stop working.........


My limited understanding is--correct me if I'm wrong--the idea is to keep the thing cooled down until everything's back up and running; as was the case with Japan.

ETA: depending on the extent of the EMP (in other words, how far reaching), that would be the determining factor as to whether or not it's gonna blow/burn up.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> My limited understanding is--correct me if I'm wrong--the idea is to keep the thing cooled down until everything's back up and running; as was the case with Japan.
> 
> ETA: depending on the extent of the EMP (in other words, how far reaching), that would be the determining factor as to whether or not it's gonna blow/burn up.


So how do you , "control it", when the "controls" don't work?

Sort of like why your car stops running after an EMP, but the Nuclear Jeannie keeps running like the Enigizer Bunny, except without control or cooling....


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> So how do you , "control it", when the "controls" don't work?
> 
> Sort of like why your car stops running after an EMP, but the Nuclear Jeannie keeps running like the Enigizer Bunny, except without control or cooling....


It's not a question of controlling the controls, rather it's a question of keeping the thing cool until life gets back to normal. If they can't keep it cool until then, we're outta luck. Check the video out at about @8:00


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Green Lilly said:


> This is actually something that really concerns me. Besides an EMP, there are other ways to negatively impact a nuclear power plant that are on my mind. Terrorist attack, natural phenomenon like earthquakes or tsunami's, societal breakdown or financial breakdown that prevents workers or supplies making it to the plants. In my opinion just about every scenario could potentially cause trouble for our nuclear facilities, even if it is local.
> 
> Thanks for posting this Annie. This reminded me that I want to get a supply of potassium iodide to have on hand. I live on the east coast just outside the 10 mile radius of a nuclear plant and Cumbre Vieja in the Canaries is of particular concern to me. Does anyone have any suggestions on brands for potassium iodide?


Ordering some up today. This guy has some good info.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Annie said:


> Ordering some up today. This guy has some good info.


I have a stash of those packets. My wife just looked at me and shook her head. She doesn't get it, she would rather not think about nuclear.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Prepared One said:


> I have a stash of those packets. My wife just looked at me and shook her head. She doesn't get it, she would rather not think about nuclear.


I understand how she feels. Let's hope we never have need of them.

Here's what one of the Amazon "top contributors" wrote. He doesn't mention where he got some of his info, (he says some's from the FDA) so I want to look into things like dosages:

like the professional way these ioSAT brand Potassium Iodide tablets are packaged. Each packet has 14 tablets, which equals 14 adult daily doses. Each tablet is individually foil-wrapped in a packet. This is great for keeping track of how many you've taken. I have one packet for each member of the family, and if an emergency arises, it will be easy to keep track of who took his/her supplement.

I thought I'd post some basic information on Potassium Iodide as an emergency supplement:

The thyroid gland uptakes iodine from the bloodstream. Radioactive iodine is one of the most common of the radionuclides that may be released by nuclear fallout. If it is ingested or inhaled, the radioactive iodine will be taken up by the thyroid, greatly increasing the risk of thyroid cancer. To help avoid this, you want to saturate the body with a source of stable iodide. If the thyroid's iodine receptors are all "taken" by the non-radioactive iodide, the radioactive iodide will generally be excreted by the body.

The effectiveness of potassium iodide (KI) was proven after the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear accident. Some areas with heavy nuclear fallout after Chernobyl were NOT given potassium iodide supplements, and others were. Two decades later, studies show that the rate of thyroid cancer among populations given potassium iodide soon after the accident were the same as the rate among populations that were not affected by Chernobyl. However, populations that were affected by Chernobyl, but were not given the supplement, have shown epidemic experiences of thyroid cancer.

Note that potassium iodide cannot protect against any other causes of radiation poisoning. Dirty bombs, for example, produce radionuclides other than radioactive iodine.

WARNINGS:

1. There are risks if you take too large a dose of potassium iodide. Side effects include skin rashes, swelling of the salivary glands, and "iodism" (metallic taste, burning mouth and throat, sore teeth and gums, symptoms of a head cold, and sometimes stomach upset and diarrhea). In addition, it is of no use to take a larger dose. Your thyroid is able to hold only so much of the iodide, so to take more than your thyroid can "take" gives you the side-effects with no benefit.

It is not common, but people can have an allergic reaction to the supplement, and they'll have more serious symptoms, such as fever, joint pain, swelling of the face and/or body, and severe shortness of breath requiring immediate medical attention.

In even rarer circumstances, taking a potassium iodide supplement can cause overactivity of the thyroid gland, underactivity of the thyroid gland, or enlargement of the thyroid (goiter).

The probability of side-effects increases with age, particularly after age 40.

2. Time is of the essence. You DO start your potassium iodide supplement as soon as public health authorities advise. However, it is a waste to take the supplement if it is not needed and higher side-effect risk to take the supplement for longer than the recommended time, unless the public health authorities have actually said that you should continue. The side effects listed under number 1 may hold true for extended use as well as excess dosages. The standard treatment period, if you are in an area exposed to nuclear fallout, is 10 days.

3. The potassium iodide in iodized salt is the correct form of iodide. Trace amounts of it have been added to salt in the U.S. since 1924. The purpose is to reduce the incidence of the simple goiter (swelling of the thyroid gland). Worldwide, over 90% of treatable cases of goiter are caused by an iodine deficiency.

HOWEVER, the amount of potassium iodide in iodized salt is so small that you would have to consume 160 tablespoons of salt DAILY to secure the 130 mg/day adult dose for radioactive iodide protection.

FDA RECOMMENDED DOSAGE OF POTASSIUM IODIDE FOR RADIOLOGICAL EMERGENCIES:

AGE and MG per day
Age less than 1 month old ...............16 MG per day
Age 1 month - 36 months old .............32 MG per day
Age 3 years - 12 years old ..............65 MG per day
Age 12 - 18 years who weigh less than 150 pounds ..... 65 MG per day
Age 12 - 18 years who weigh more than 150 pounds .....130 MG per day
Adults over 18 years old ................ 130 MG per day

Pregnant or lactating women take the same adult MG dose as usual. However, it is recommended that they remove themselves from the radioactive risk area as quickly as possible so that they can stop the daily dose as soon as possible. (Well, I think that goes for everybody!) This is to lessen the risk of blocking fetal thyroid function with excess iodine.
The FDA does recommend that adults over 40 only take the potassium iodide supplement if the radioactive exposure is relatively high, but I know for myself (I'm over 40) that I would probably accept the risk of side-effects and take the supplement, if adults under 40 are told to take them.
The protective effect of a potassium iodide supplement lasts about 24 hours. The dose needs to be taken daily, and at about the same time of day each time.
Potassium iodide pills can be split, as needed.

The standard dosage period is 10 days. Please note that the 10 day period is based on an important assumption - that 10 days is enough time for evacuation. There are people who live and work in areas contaminated by Chernobyl who have been taking KI supplements for decades. It's not that they are safe from radioactivity, but they are protected from radioactive iodine.

SOME NOTES ON AVAILABLE SUPPLEMENTS:

Potassium iodide is a supplement, not a drug. It has not been tested or approved by the FDA the way a drug is tested before being sold to the public. Usually, the FDA does not allow supplements to make health claims on their bottles or in their advertising. However, in the public interest, the FDA allows Potassium Iodide to state on its packaging and advertising that it is a "thyroid block", which means it stops the thyroid from uptaking a radioactive iodide.

There are many brands of potassium iodide (KI) available, and the FDA does not favor one brand above the other.

There are supplements, legally sold, with Potassium Iodate instead of iodide. The World Health Organization, allows both potassium iodide and potassium iodate as effective thyroid blocks. However, WHO recommends using iodide if possible because it is easier on the digestive track. That's a good enough recommendation of potassium iodide for me. I think the stress of being affected by nuclear fallout is quite enough; I don't need stomach upset on top of it!

The usual shelf life for a potassium iodide supplement is seven years. I purchased my first set of ioSAT tablets in July 2011 and they were manufacturer stamped with a 2018 expiration date. This is a review for
Potassium Iodide Tablets, USP, 130mg


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

@Annie, I have read this before. Thanks for the reminder. At my age, and given the time it would take to develop a cancer, coupled with the likelihood that if nukes are going off, cancer would be the least of my worries, this remedy would most likely be wasted on me. The uptake, Like everything else we do to be prepared, does not guarantee survival, it just enhances the probabilities. I like to stack the odds in my favor however, where ever I can. :tango_face_wink:

You, on the other hand, have kids. Potassium Iodide would be essential for them should they survive the initial strike or there is nuclear plant meltdown.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> Yeah, me too. The forum has a really good resource here, thanks to @Illini Warrior.
> 
> I'm thinking some sort of nuclear event is very highly probable and I've been putting off buying the potassium iodide. I'm thinking it's time to get some.


Don't stop with an adequate supply of potassium iodine. You don't have to wear a tin foil hat like mine and buy hazard suits and masks, but you should stock at least 6 mil thick black rolls of poly and some gorilla duct tape. It would be used to seal off windows doors and any other areas where your residence could be breached by any airborne fallout. You could also create a wash area.

I also would go a step further and build a faraday cage to store some valuable electronics. As we all know here, one can be made from a simple metal trashcan.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Don't stop with an adequate supply of potassium iodine. You don't have to wear a tin foil hat like mine and buy hazard suits and masks, but you should stock at least 6 mil thick black rolls of poly and some gorilla duct tape. It would be used to seal off windows doors and any other areas where your residence could be breached by any airborne fallout. You could also create a wash area.
> 
> I also would go a step further and build a faraday cage to store some valuable electronics. As we all know here, one can be made from a simple metal trashcan.


Thanks @A Watchman a 'lil bit at a time. I keep chipping away at my supply lists.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

An EMP nuke would pose little or no radiation threat from particulate fallout, prevailing winds would carry it out to sea. 
From what my cousin, now passed, a top nuclear engineer, who worked at NES SELAMCO in NC
told me that US electric power reactors have a fail safe operation operation called SCRAMMING used on closed loop steam reactors..
It is an emergency forced shutdown of the core by rapidly putting in the present and ready control rods takes less that a minute to do, ending the reaction between pellet rod bundles. 
They can be dropped remotely or if needed manually to stop the core reaction.
Those huge inverted cones cool the clean water passed through the cores sealed heat exchanger then back through, they will give you an idea of the amount of heat generated by the core.

These are closed loop systems with water circulating between the core and the heat exchanger then passed into the venturi style cooling towers.
Fukashima never had a chance to control the reactor shutdown in one core, it cooked off without the graphite control put in in place.
Russian reactors consistently came up short on safety protocol and shutdown methods, 
bypassing manual for automatic systems that were prone to failure, there a few subs resting on the bottom of the ocean from that folly.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

An EMP does scare me, but its better than a Chernobyl.
Fukashima was a *GE* design... But Mother Nature was stronger. They got hit hard.
Chernobyl was a horrific event. Still to this day bad.
KIDDofSPEED - GHOST TOWN - Chernobyl Pictures - Kidofspeed - Elena


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