# Alternative Power



## nadja (May 1, 2012)

How many of you out there would like to know a lot more about solar ? Especially from someone living entirely off the elec grid with solar and wind power for over 16 years ? I do NOT sell anything so don't be nervous about me. I would only like to help you by determining what you would really need . Not what some salesman will try and sell you. Want to learn? Inquire within


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Okay mate, shoot, it's always best to hear from somebody like you who's walking the walk, rather than for us to look it up in dry dusty net articles..
Two basic questions spring to mind:
1- What sort of sizes would the solar panels and windmills have to be to power basic home essentials such as lighting, TV, cooker, computer, heating, hot water etc?
2- What happens when the suns not out? Presumably excess electricity can be stored for use on such days? And what if the sun didn't come out for a week or longer, would you have enough stored to tide you over?


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

These days even an overcast day will charge a panel. It won't be super strong but it will still produce current. Solar has come a long way this past ten years. The washer, fridge, cable box and stove will be the biggest drains on a system. HE appliances are a good place to start. LED replacements for all your lights are recommended. Depending on how big your house is, it might take up to 50 panels and like 15-30 batteries if you want to live at the same consumption levels. There's also a company selling big powerplants they make from utility and horse trailers, I would personally get one of those and have some extra batts on hand in case the ones onboard it ever go bad.


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm into this right now. The problem I'm having is actually finding a solar panel company that has good reviews. I know Sharp solar panels are some of the best but of course some of the highest prices out there, but I guess its what you pay for is what you get. I've heard that buying panels from places like ebay are risky unless you know the buyer because some soldering joints in the panels can be done incorrectly, which can cause the panel to heat up, the film to bubble and come off the panel, as well as start a small fire. Also know that there are a lot of sellers out there that are using factory "seconds" that are cracked or chipped to the point of a small hairline, but still sell them anyway. 

Right now, I'm going to experiment with a 30watt panel for my rain barrel with a pump on it to see what comes of it, the move up in watts as time comes on. 

When the sun is not shining, then the wind can kick in at night time or during a overcast. I have a 2012 tahoe alternator that I'm in the process of hooking up, trying to calculate the speed it will take to generate 12volts. Here in kentucky, we have rolling winds over the mountains, with normal wind speeds up to 3-4, so I don't know how good my turbines are going to hold out. Regardless, the TV antennas are going to have dipole antennas located on top of them for future hookup.

My current energy comsumption is extremely high. Around 1700 kwh/month which means I'm a huge way on going totally off grid. Mainly going to convert a non-tie solar/wind system in as the time comes along. My log cabin is supposed to be energy efficient, but that is not the case since the chinking was incorrectly applied, as well as the interior and exterior was not sealed correctly as well. The cabin does "breathe" throughout the year, so I know the stonemill cut logs are working the way they are supposed to, so I have to refinish the in/out of the logs to make it more efficient. 

Soooo.... if anyone wants to come to Kentucky for some good ole home cooking, then I'll put you to work!


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

OK, Solar power for your home. First thing I will tell you, is that yes , it is expensive. But one of the most important things about solar is that it will NOT learn to live with you, you will have to learn to live with it. 

I am not a good person to crunch the numbers to tell you what you need. However, as a person living on solar for over 16 years and having built my entire system, 1 panal at a time, I am the person who can help you go in the right direction. I will be able to help you find the best deals on solar, the best equipment to buy and how to install it. And like Survivor has already found out, quality does cost more, especially in this area. 

The first thing you need to do , is to figure out what you really could live without. For instance, ANY elect heating/cooking device's need to go. Elec Ranges, etc will not do ! Next, how to you cut your consumption of grid power down ? In the case of ranges, water heaters and regular heaters, you need to switch to propane/natural gas . Now in your heating system, you can heat rooms one by one that you actually live in or use as I do. One of the best propane or nat gas heaters you can buy is a unit made by "Cozy". They are the safest and most reliable heaters you can buy. Amazing heat and also on thermostat. I have been using one of them in our bedroom for about 8-9 years now. Vented directly through the wall. Now my living room heater and here in my office , I use the cheaper heaters like the ones from Northern Tool. The older models were not good as they were not efficient and did produce a lot of carbon monoxide , again , not good. The newer models are really good. About 99% efficient and now safe even for bedrooms. The better ones like in my living room also work on a thermostat. 

Now lets look at lights. I know a lot of people are now starting to look into led lights. They work great for my flashlight, but in the house I prefer "whole room lighting" So, about 15 years ago , I made the plunge and paid about 20.00 for my first compact fluorescent bulb. Never went back to incandescent again. They come on slower then the older model bulbs, but they work overall very well. I now use them in every room. I can run about 6 of them at the same time and only use the power of about one old fashoned 100 wattl bulb. 

Solar panels. Oh s...t. This is a big area and needs a lot of big words to describe. Survivor, I have 2 of the sharp panels, along with 2 mitsibishi panels, and 12 of the Kyrocera (best) panels, all in about the same voltage and wattage. I also run 2 new panels that are much larger on a different voltage, but am able to accomplish this by using an outback mppt 60 charge controller to convert my voltage to 12 volts which the rest of my system is. 

We will get into much more detail later if you really want to know more. But be advised , the JUNK you will find at ebay and especially harbor freight is not worth the shipping charges, much less the money you spend on hopeing to get something usefull. 

You will need to figure out the things on consumption and then we will have more to talk about. Believe, me, this is a very lengthy subject and I will try and post some pictures here of my system very soon.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Lucky Jim. Un-fortunatlly, where you live , solar is really not an option. Unless it has changed in the last few months, fog is your prevailing weather , which is really bad for solar. You need at least 5-6 hours a day to have a viaoble solar system, unless your made of money and could put up about 50 expensive and large solar panels. You have to have the sun to generate the power, and need about 1/2 of the power to charge your battery bank for night use. Now and then as your full sun days are will not work for you. Sorry but no bannana !


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

nadja said:


> Lucky Jim. Un-fortunatlly, where you live , solar is really not an option. Unless it has changed in the last few months, fog is your prevailing weather..


Well I'm as good as done for then, I'm already in a bad enough situation-
1- living only 50 yards from the Atlantic (tsunami and global warming sea level rise danger)
2- in Britain,(where only criminals can get guns) 
3-in the heart of the city of Plymouth where I'd have to pedal the gauntlet of miles of zombs to escape to the country on my bike.

As if all that's not bad enough an enemy sub could deposit a nuke on the seabed just offshore with a time fuse, or disembark suicide-squads in rubber boats to come ashore at night.
And to cap it all, British nuclear-powered subs at the dockyard down the road regularly leak radioactivity into local rivers and seas-
_"Radiation has leaked on 10 occasions at Devonport Dockyard since 1980 according to a recent MoD admission"_
Plymouth nuclear Dump Information Group, Latest Hot News

So I think my best survival bet is to find an American widow tourist off one of the cruise liners that put in here, marry her here after a whirlwind romance and then go live with her in America and take out US citizenship. Somebody like this gal would do me fine, she can rope me, throw me and brand me anytime she likes..-


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Actually Lucky Jim. If you live up to your pen name here, that may be very dooable for you ! Go for it. We would welcome you over here across the pond. At least we have sunshine most of the time and a lot more room.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Actually I'm lucky in one respect, namely that I'm single and live alone with no dependents and no pets, so on Doomsday I'll only have my own scrawny neck to worry about!
(I've got a sister and a few nieces and nephews scattered around but hardly ever see them, the only time they get in touch is when they want money, ha ha)..


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Chime in for those who knows of a website that shows the cheapest prices for good quality solar panels. I guess I'll start with a 240w and build up. Or is there other things to consider first?


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Survival, below you will find a link to a place that gives you prices. Some are for single panels, and some are for pallets etc. But good prices. Now adays, there starting to get a lot better coming from China. When I started with my first Kyrocera, it was 5.00 per watt. now , even they have come down , but nothing like the prices you will find with this co.

Free Solar Panel Price Survey | EcoBusinessLinks


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Awesome site. I've been on it since you posted this link. Now I don't have to worry if I'm getting ripped off by someone where I didn't know the going rate.

I have worried about hail damaging the panels, which I see on some descriptions hail proof solar panels etc. I've also heard of some people putting plexiglass over top of them (which could reduce efficiency) of the solar panels. Is there a certain type, keyword or something I should look for when purchasing? I know a lot of people will mention that the homeowners insurance will take care of that, but in a shtf environment, I don't think the insurance companies will care if they are damaged.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

You will still have to make the ultimate decision of what type of solar panels you need. 240 watt panels will be 24 volt. Keep that in mind. They can however be wired to make 48 volts. The better panels will come with at least a 20 year warr. That will tell you a lot . Anything with less than that, not so good. Unless you have the golf size hail, not a problem. I used to worry, but after several hail storms with no damage, I sleep a lot better. NO plexieglass or any other type of cover over the front of the panels. To much heat, and will burn them out !


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Lots of youtube 'solar panels' vids to browse too, like this one-






PS- i see another solar thread has just sprung up here-
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/...ing-your-new-first-solar-system.html#post7253


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Lucky Jim. The big guy in the picture is Holmes. He is a good tv money maker, but what he knows about solar I can write on my thumb nail. Just because someone puts something up on u-tube doesn't make it so. He is really into making money, and not much else. Never go to solar sellers or installers to ask questions, they may have been selling used cars last week. They are there to SELL you things, not help you.


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## Xplorer (May 8, 2012)

Very interesting thread. I'll be following it.


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Dumb question here, but how many volts do I need? Is there a pro/cons about the 24 volt? The only reason I ask is because that wattage is what "everyone" is crazing about. I figure the more wattage on the panel that I can afford, the better.

I want to migrate portions of my home over to solar, with my understanding that I run some conduit into the home, have a electrician disconnect one room and have it wired/transformed/converted to the panels. Over time, I can add yet another room as the more panels I get. Right now, I'm at 30 something kwhs per day.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Survival. Let us look at it this way. First of all, watts are the rated power of the panel. If you looking at a 240 watt panel, that means it is "rated" to put out 240 watts per hour of good strong sun. Volts is the rating given to the panel which is its operating range of power. For instance, you car/truck is rated at 12 volts. In order to use any of these panels 12v -24v your system needs to be matched to it. 24 volt panels, 24v battery bank and 24 volt inverter. I am a 12v system, as when I first started, 24volt systems were rare and very costly. See, I started with one single Kyrocera 85 watt panel, 2- 6v batteries wired in parallel to make 12 volts, a cheapo charge controller and a used Trace 1512 inverter. The inverter was about the best I could afford . 1512 means 1500 watts and 12 volts. It was a modified sine wave inverter, which destroyed several of my saw motors over the years. will go into this down the road. 

To go with a 24 volt system, I would have had to buy 2 - 85 watt 12v panels wired in parallel to make 24 volts. 12 + 12 = 24 volts !
The batteries would have had to be doubled as well 4 x 6 = 24 

Since, I was just recovering from two major operations and 18 day stay in the whorespotal, with no insurance , that was all I could afford at the time. 

When looking at the two main elect components , look at the brand "outback" They are made up in the N.W. and not in down under as the name implies. We will get into the why's a little later. But the inverter will be your single most expensive unit and then next will be batteries

Since a Killawatt is actually 1,000 watts, then it would take roughly 5 kyrocera 85 watt panels 1 hour to produce 1kwh 

Now, maybe that gives you an idea of why you need to deep six all of your electric heating units. By cutting down the items that need to be powered , such as the power sucking heaters , range and water heater, you will reduce your 30kw usage to probably about half or even more. Swimming pool heaters and filters included. Motors of any kind require power and lots of it. Air conditioners are another no no for the moment. Although I have heard of a new one that is supposed to be solar friendly.

Once you get past those hurdles , you will be in fairly good shape. 


Confused yet ? Yea, I know, it took me a long while to really start figuring this stuff out too. Not to worry, it will come to you all at once for the most part.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Survival. There are a couple of advantages to going with the higher voltages. One, by going to higher voltage, your amps would stay lower, allowing you to control twice as many solar panels as with the next lower voltage. One other thing comes to mind, which is you can also double the amount of panels on your elec. wire run from the panels to the charge controller. Save's you a few bucks that way. Disadvantage's 1 battery goes bad in say a 24v system, means you actually need to disconnec one string of 24v batteres. After all, you can't run a string of 18 volts with remaining 24 volts. Your strings of batteries and solar panels need to stay the same as the voltage originally intended. You can't put a Euro coin in an american vending machine either ! One other advantage that comes to mind, is that it can also reduce the amount of charge controllers needed to do the same job

Lets try and simplify that one step further. With 12v, my 85 watt panels each put out 5 amps . So, with a string of 10 of them wired in pararell, I will be running 50 amps down the wires to my controller. 

If we take the same 850 watts in 24 volt panels, I would only be running about 25 amps. So, smaller wire if wanted or double the amount of solar panels to 1700 watts all on the same wire and controller. Controllers (good ones) are expensive. Going 48 volts even doubles that amount of panels=wattage you will be bringing in to the controller down that same smaller gauge wire. 
Beginning to make a little more sense to you now ? I hope I haven't confused you even more then when you first started. 

I will lay out a med sized system for you in a little while. Med sized being about my size which is a little over 1800 watts. Then you simply double most of it for a much more functional system for the average house.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Now, this will appeal to you I think even more. You call your local solar co. and get them to give you an estimate for a basic off grid system with about 5,000 watts. When you get that, and the 50k price tag, don't have a heart attack, as I should be able to show you how to do almost the identical system for about 20,000 frn's or less by doing the buying and installing yourself. Sound like a plan ? I thought so.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Ok. med sized system of ABOUT 5,000 watts. 


Componants figuring on a 24v system. 


#1 20- 240 watt solar panels at a cost of about $1.00 per watt when buying in bulk off the net= About $5,000.00
#2 Charge controller to handle this load, which actually you will need 2 Outback mppt -80's at about $600.00 each + about $1,200.00
#3 Invertor. I would recomend very highly an Outback 24 volt invertor, which I believe are putting out about 2500 watts. Cost retail is about $2,500.00. Probably find them a little cheaper on the net, and also used . Lot of times you can get lucky and find them on Craigs List.org or even on Ebay for about 1/2
#4 Batteries. Now, this is where it gets dicey. Choosiing the right type of battery for your system. The best to date on the marked are in the L-16 size and made by a company called Rolls Surete. These are pricy but you will need them. 

Wire, cables and misc thingies about $500.00
DC disconnect box , loaded with breakers etc generally in the range of about $500.00 
One other thing you will need is a means to mount them. If you have a weathertight outbuilding, this is the best place to mount the panels and down below inside only, the invertor, charge controllers, and batteries. If not, you really should consider building a building just for this purpose. I am a retired framer, so if you need ideas on this, let me know and I maybe can take a few minutes and draw you out something. You can mount all your panels on the roof of this and build it for about the price of a good tracker. 

Now, I did not include the price of the building or a tracker. Trackers are nice, but for what they cost, you can almost double your solar system. They can also be a royal pain to maintain. They move and by moving, it means that there are wearable parts . 

Now, this comes in under 10k and you still need the batteries. Lots of things determine how many batteries you will really need, and when I find out more about your real needs , then can pin this down a lot better. Hope this helps you out more


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Here is some quick research I did on the Outback inverters. There is a componant that has to accompany the. They always seem to leave that out. 
*OutBack Power FX2524T Sine Wave Inverter*
Solar. Wind. Hydro. Generator. No matter what your energy source OutBack's products are engineered to provide your home or business with reliable electricity day-in and day-out. The OutBack modular system architecture allows your system to grow along with your power needs up to 36,000 watts. Power hungry appliances like washing machines, air conditioning and power tools are easily started by our inverter's substantial surge power capability. When not being used, the inverter enters a power save mode, which consumes as little as 3 watts, saving your battery power for when you need it the most. OutBack's innovative Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) technology gets the most from your solar array or can also control hydro or wind turbine charging sources. Complete system status and control is easily monitored by a single control, instead of requiring the user to keep an eye on multiple displays and status indicators.
The OutBack Power Systems true sinewave inverter/charger is a complete power solution. It incorporates a DC to AC sinewave inverter, battery charger and AC transfer switch housed within a die-cast aluminum chassis. Intelligent multistage battery charging runs your generator less, and prolongs the life of your batteries. Built-in networked communications enables multiple units to be stacked and connected with other OutBack power electronics providing industry leading integration and near infinite application flexibility. The exclusive modular system architecture means that increased power output is just an additional inverter/charger away. Our flagship FX series uses a sealed chassis that can operate in the harshest environmental conditions such as high humidity and corrosive salt air.
*Features of the OutBack Power FX2524T Sine Wave Inverter*
*Sealed FX:*


Sinewave Output
Intelligent Battery Charging
Modular Stackable Design
High Operating Efficiency
Weather-resistant Sealed Chassis
Corrosion Resistant Internal Components
Field Serviceable
Integrated Network Communications
Standard 2 Year Warranty
*Sealed Construction Features:*


Powdercoated all aluminum die-cast chassis
Internal electronic components are cooled by heat transfer
Gaskets on all openings to provide water-resistance
Sealed design protects internal electronics from salt, dirt or contaminated air, bugs, critters, mold etc.
Conformal coated circuit boards to resist corrosion
Designed to allow easy field servicing and repair

CLICK HERE FOR SPEC Sheet

o go with this called the "mate" .


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Ok, head is spinning and you have done tons of work on this and your "by the book" with what I have been reading like a madman for the last week. I wanted to get some better insight by reading and asking some more specific questions.

From what I'm determining, I figure that I am going to ground mount my systems so that I can easily clean them, remove snow and so that I will not get hurt climbing the roof for whatever reason. I was thinking that I would get some rebates and hire someone to set these up for me as a basic system and then add more panels/components as time goes by, but it is my understanding that in order to get rebates, you have to go through certified installers. I'll pass on that idea now since certified installers will not be coming to my place if there is some type of disaster and I need repair work, therefore I'll do this on my own and take the loss for my expenses as a learning experience.

Good ideas on the large apliances to convert over to propane and take that portion off the grid. Right now I have a propane range, which I have read that in a power outage the newer models will not "fire up", even though they are on gas. I figure the electronic igniter will fail at that point (Which I didn't think of!). I'm going to test this weekend by throwing the main breaker in my home and seeing which apliances will come on that are on gas. My furnace/hvac is on propane as well, and I'll test this. 

Thank you for the huge wall of text write up on this! I have learned so much in so little time over the last week.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Mornin' Survival. You range, being as it is already propane should only need a small bit of elec to light the burners and perhaps the light in the oven. If that is the case, then it should have a standard 120 v wall plug. Should be no problem. Furnace being propane will most likely be the same, however it will take power to run the fan. You will need to check that and see how much power it really uses. Once you have determined how many and what size panels you need, then I will design a ground mount system for you. You panels need to point directly at true south and not magnetic south. For this info you will need to call the local solar company and ask them how much the declination is for your area and which direction. The general rule of thumb here is to set them up for the winter sun as it is the shortest cycle, and summer takes care of itself. Summer has a longer period of sun then winter of course..

Since your serious about putting in solar, I will pm you in a few minutes or so. Also, the panels need to be as close to your equipment IE: batteries, charge controller and inverter etc as possible. The ac run to your house can be a little longer as needed. Electronic equipment needs to be kept high and dry from the elements. This post has been edited to correct my sumtimers!


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm in Kentucky, so Northern Hemisphere, so shouldn't my panels be true south? I already have done true south calculations if thats the direction I should be pointing. Regarding batteries, I've read to get the deap cell "sealed" batteries and to not store them in a house. I have a outbuilding about 50-75 feet from my house, and I plan on running thick wire. I'm planning on cleaning out the area this weekend where I"m putting the batteries if that sounds about right to you for the feet away from my home.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Opps ! My bad . Thats what happens when you sleep in I guess. I slept till' 6 am. It is almost lunch time for me. I feel groggy at best. Yes, the panels should point TRUE SOUTH. Wow, I can't believe I actually typed north. Now, my wife will know she is right when she says I have some timers ! Glad your wide awake over there. Where you live doesn't matter other the Alaska of course. You also need a clear path to the sun morning noon and night. No buildings or trees or mtns in between the sun and panels.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Batteries. There are a lot of ways to go on these little items. First off, they are expensive, and I do mean expensive. In the golf cart size the best are made by Trojan and the designation for them is T-105. You can buy a cheaper brand , but not better. Standard of the industry for a very long time. The ones most preferred are the L-16 series, much larger and much more expensive. The best brand for these is Rolls Surete. Make sure you take your heart pills before you look at these. They last a few years longer the the small ones, but you will pay for that also. Next thing is to forget anything about 12v and only look at the 6v series. A Trojan T-105 is as big as most pu batteries and weighs more due to the heavy amount of lead inside. Batteries are the weak link in your system. There is a better way to go, but not obtainable for most of us. Used U.S.N. Sub batteries. However you need heavy equipment to set them in place and deep pockets to purchase them. Will go much further into batteries as the need for more info arrises.


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

There is a line of trees that is in my way heading true south. Sun goes overhead of them of course, but cuts about 2-3 hours in the morning and 2-3 hours in the late afternoon time to charge the panels. I really don't want to cut the trees in the line of path, nor do I want to put the panels on the roof for previous reasons mentioned. I figure, what I get is what I'll go with even if it will cost me more in the long run. 

You are really going fast on this for me. lol. I'm not for sure about others, hopefully they are watching and learning as well and hopefully others will ask questions. I'm going to break my project down in steps, which I have to clean out the building this weekend for a storage place for the batteries. I'd like to start window shopping for the mounts. Where do I start there? I figure lowes for some plumbing steel pipes?


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

I put all of my panels up on top of my solar building. I am a lot older then you Survivor. I am just about to turn 64 and I still do roofs. You will lose a lot of very needed power by putting them on the ground, which I am sure you have already figured out. However, it does work.

BEFORE you start buying or building anything for the panels to mount on, get your panels. And before that , you need to figure out about how much power you will need. Forget about watts,that is only a measurement of how much a given unit really uses. One of the best things for you will be able to determine how many amps any given appliance actually uses. The cheapest way to do that, is to purchase a small meter called " Kill-A-Watt" They can generally be had for around $20.00 on ebay and even some stores. I am posting a picture of mine for all to see. What you do , is to plug it into the wall socket, and then plug your unit into that. It will give you amps being used by that applaiance and also watts, volts and even hertz which will all come in to play as we go further with your solar adventure.


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Getting back into this now since I'm done with the first part of the HAM license. Trying to focus on a little of this and a little of that at a time so I'm not stuck in a rut on one project.

Going to get the Kill-A-Watt amp meter this week and start recording the amperage in the items around my house. 

Nadja, for safety's sake for the readers and myself, I'm assuming this item is safe to plug into any AC around the house then plug an appliance into the back of it as shown? How does one go about a dryer/washer/hotwater heater and/or hvac to determine amperage? Would it be safer or faster to find the model manual to find this info?


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## hayden (Apr 30, 2012)

Survival I have the kill a watt meter and like it very much. I haven't used it to check my appliances I use it on my small grid tie solar system. I have 2- 125 watt panels off ebay $510 free shipping last year, 4 12 volt deep cycle batteries 240 bucks maybe, a 250 watt grid tie invertor I think was $150. I didn't do alot with the elevation of the panels, basically just mounted them on the roof They were only producing about 140 watts when I put them up but as the sun is getting lower in the winter sky they are now putting out 170 watts. On a good day I make about 1kwh per day. That's not much but I only use a lttle over 300 kwh per month so about 10 percent of my monthly usage. I have a double pole double throw switch that is normally sending the power to the grid tie inverter and sending the power made back into my house wiring via the grid tie which has a normal 3 prong 110 output wire. I have that plugged into the kill a watt meter so I can see how many watts the panels are producing and also track how many kwhs I make. When I flip the switch the power from the panels goes to charge the batteries. I have 2 inverters hooked up to the batteries One is 1500 watts and the other is 2500 watts. These are for making 120 volts ac from the batteries. I think when I added it up before total cost was about $1000. I will probably never recoup that money from my utility bill but I look at it more as part of my preps. Once during a power outage I had my LED lighting going and was sitting at my desk with my laptop going I also had some kerosine lamps going in other rooms so my house was very well lit up. Even tho it was dark outside I had my blinds open and the next day one of my neighbors ask how I was the only one on the block whose power didn't go out. Oh and congrats on your progress towards your ham radio ticket. When you get your ticket maybe would could set up on air meeting if you get some HF rig. Did you get that Yeasu HT you were talking about?


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## Xplorer (May 8, 2012)

Very good questions, Survival. Since I just lved off my generator for the last week due to Sandy, I would like to wire into my breaker box & need to find out what certain electrical items draw. Living with out my well pump was....interesting.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Survival, if your planing on pluging your water heater , elec dryer etc into it forget it. Those units will be 220 and the plugs will not work. IF what ever your planning on testing , goes into a regular 120 volt wall plug, you should have no problem. I have used it for my Freezer, refer/freezer, computers, large crt tv and everything else around the house. Now, I cut rocks and some of the are rather large. I have even pluged in my rock saws , polishers etc into it with no problems. If you really want to live on solar, you are going to have to cut your loses on the big energy hogs and switch everything over to propane, IE: water heater, no dishwasher, dryer, hvac and all heat related units. Sorry, but unless your have more money the O'Great one to toss away, this is how the rocks fall.


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## punch (Nov 6, 2012)

Great post Nadja,
You have put out some excellent information regarding solar and real-life situations making the move to solar. Definitely do an energy audit to see what your needs are and what you can live without. Eliminate phantom loads from appliances and things that draw electricity whether they are on or off. On some items I use a power strip to cut power when an item is not in use. If you are new to solar, this thread has a ton of useful info.
I picked up a Kill-A-Watt EZ (electricity usage meter) at a Radio Shack on clearance for 14.95 about half what I've seen them selling for elsewhere. For clothes drying theres always the wireless clothes line. A while back someone was advertising solar clothes dryers and upon receiving payment, he would send his customer a clothes line. 
For hot water, replace the heating elements on an old electric water heater with 12 or 24 volt elements and divert your dump loads to heat water once your batteries are charged up. Even if you just make the water warm, it will take less energy to make it hot for your use.
Years ago I subscribed to Home Power magazine for the diy articles and project ideas, but not any more, a friend of mine who owns an electronics surplus store asked me what I thought of the magazine now for an honest opinion and I said its all advertising on almost every page. There is more useful info in this thread. 
I will be seeking you out for advice in the future Nadja, great posts. Thanks!


jmho,
punch


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## UnknownCertainty (Nov 9, 2012)

I've only glanced over some of the responses on here, but I had to subscribe to this thread. This is something that I've been tossing around in my head for about a year now. I'm definitely going to go over the information here at some point and I'm sure I'll have questions. Thanks all.


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## windsearcher (Nov 8, 2012)

this looks like people are mostly considering solar. 

Is anyone doing anything for wind or small hydro power?


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

I have wind, so what would you like to know ? Where are you located ?


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

UnknownCertainty. Here is a link to putting up my wind tower. I am a retired framer, construction is my thing. I did this according to Hyole, and pic's are attempting to show you the way to do it correctly. You cannot cut corners, unless you want major problems later on.

buildingatower


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## windsearcher (Nov 8, 2012)

@ nadja - I am located down on the FL panhandle. Will be picking up a wind anemometer so I can get an average windspeed in my area. Doesn't look too promising since the general wind charts show that (I think) we average under 10 mph most of the year.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Windsearcher. Although I do have a very good wind generator and at this moment it is churning and burning, but most times it is not. Wind is an expensive way to go verses solar. Solar works whenever it is daylight , although sometimes not as good as others but is consistant. Wind here is not constant, and I kick myself when I think about how much more solar I could've instaled for the money I spent instead on wind. 

Keep in mind that your wind generator needs to be about 30' above ANY close obstructions , so that is pretty much where you need to check out your wind checker thingie


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## windsearcher (Nov 8, 2012)

agree...... thanks for the advice.... I think for wind to work, it needs to be VERY consistent and as you say, unobstructed


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## S.E.IllUSA (Dec 1, 2012)

I love this thread. I would be interested in solar power for our freezers and fridge, lights maybe, but humans went w/o electric bulbs for a few years and as I'm sure they would be missed, other things seem more important at this time. We store large amounts of meat and would do anything to keep it frozen. Solar seems to be the way to go as fossil fuels may be hard to come by one day or just outrageously pricey. Plus I'd like to use fuel for other things such as a vehicle or chainsaw.


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## Rocky (Nov 10, 2012)

Nadja, thank you so much for your work here. I have been wanting to get into solar for awhile but lacked the knowledge to do more than keep car batteries charged up with a cheap, ebay 100 watt panel.

This thread has inspired me to re-think the whole thing.


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## Rocky (Nov 10, 2012)

Nadja, thank you so much for your work here. I have been wanting to get into solar for awhile but lacked the knowledge to do more than keep car batteries charged up with a cheap, ebay 100 watt panel.

This thread has inspired me to re-think the whole thing.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

S.E. Ill if you wish to have solar power for your refer and freezers, there are a couple of ways to go about this. First of all, do you have more then one freezer ? If so, are they both chest freezers, and are they fairly new. I am looking to find out if they are newer and energy efficient , which will save you a ton of money on solar etc. Do you have a Kill a Watt meter ? This is something you really need to work with solar. It will help determine just what and how much you will need.


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