# Fight with the Significant Other Over Prepping



## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

My fiance isn't AGAINST prepping (after all, he preps firearms/weapons...he just calls it collecting)...but he's a maniac over finances...he worries about everything. He DOES do all the bills, I admit...so maybe there's just something he's failing to mention but I highly doubt it. I think he worries more than necessary since we both make good money, have no expensive habits or hobbies (other than shooting), don't eat out often, and we do FINE every month, etc. 

So, this past Saturday, we were doing our usual weekly shopping. I always pick up a few things to add to our preps when we shop and sometimes when I make infrequent trips during the week. Sometimes I pick up more items than other times...depends on cash flow, of course. I mentioned that I wanted to go with his parents to Costco this coming Saturday (we don't have a membership but are considering one) to check it out and get some things. I get paid on Friday and, while we still have bills of course, this will be the time to do that as I have more wiggle room this check. He, as is typical, started saying that we have bills to pay (I have 2 camera tickets, doh!) blah, blah, blah. Well I said what I normally do...we make good money, we never do without, I don't DO anything like go out or spend money on shopping (I'm possibly the only female who HATES to clothes shop), etc. We ended up in an argument as we were going through the store. He always tells me...NOTHING will happen, we will be fine and, even if something did, we have plenty of food and weapons. I got upset because I felt like he was downplaying my fears. I honestly spend no more than maybe a couple hundred a month on preps, max. Sometimes way less...it just depends. AND...I use and restock so our supply is constantly in use, stock up during good sales, and don't buy anything if there are no sales. I'm not a couponer (which I need to consider doing) but I never buy anything that isn't on sale unless those items are notoriously always cheap. 

He even brought it up again later when he said he was in the basement and we had way more than he thought so could I please stop for awhile.

It's bugging me. Do I think a huge catastrophic event is about to happen? I don't know but I sure as hell would like to be prepared if there was! I'm not taking away from anything by doing this and it helps me sleep being comfortable knowing I'm taking care of my family in the event of ANY crisis. I told him what if one of us loses our job? We won't have to worry about using the other income for food and it could go to paying the mortgage so we could keep our home. Or, what if there's a big snow storm this winter and we can't leave. He works in medical transportation so they never close and that's always his retort for that. 

Anyhow, now I'll have to slow down for a bit and that pisses me off. He was understanding and wanted a part of this when we first started prepping...now it's a different story. And, this is after he bought a $50 boot knife and tactical pen this weekend! But, I suppose I have to be a partner in the relationship too...and understand where he's coming from...even if he doesn't always choose to understand where I'm coming from.

Guess I just needed to vent. This won't ruin our relationship nor will I totally stop...I just needed to vent to people who could understand. If I were to mention it to anyone else, they would just say...so stop. Ugh.

~M


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Spending couple of hundred dollars per month for preps alone? That's a lot, unless you have kids and pets to prep for? I spend about $50/month for preps specifically, we have 2 kids, no pets, our combined income is pretty good. 
I buy dry legumes, rice and other food items that I just can't grow.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Another one  look at http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/...1130-how-spend-more-advice-needed-please.html


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

Maybe you could create a "hobby" budget that allocates $X.XX to each of you per month. Then, he can buy his gun stuff but you'll have your own blow money for whatever. It'd be pretty hard for him to argue with what you buy then.

I understand spending a lot when you look around and feel like you're so far from where you need to be in terms of preps. Mine goes in phases - some months I won't spend much but then I'll get worried--Crap, I'm having a baby and I need MORE FOOD!!!--and go on a little spree again.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

PS. Good vent, I must be unique.. My partner supports 100% what we do and even is getting into a lot of areas herself


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

The question is where do you draw the line? How much food do you stock? That's something that yall have to agree on. I'm sure quite a few of us have run into this same problem with our spouses. I know I did. My compromise (I live rural where we grow lots of food) was what I deemed enough to make it through to the next harvest. Once I felt we were there I discreetly added more here and there. The argument you made about potential income loss is very good. We lived of the preps quite a bit 2 years ago because the factory I work for was having slow sales and they cut our hours drastically. Those food preps saved our butts in that time of hardship. I wish you luck and hope yall can compromise.


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Yeah, we have two kids and three animals...so it includes pet food, water, hygiene items, etc. This is the max, tho. Average is probably closer to $100? I was over estimating. Some weeks maybe $50, others maybe a few dollars. I don't honestly keep track but, truly, it's insignificant. And, we do use the stuff too...if we have a tight week...I might spend $20 for our regular items and use from our preps...so it evens out I think. I don't have any credit card debt at all and, other than these camera tickets, there isn't anything hanging out. 

Maybe he does have legitimate concerns...maybe I AM spending too much...but it honestly doesn't FEEL like it. ???

~M


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

We live in the city...with plans to move to a rural area...working on the house to sell it. For now, there is ZERO room for a garden larger than one or two items...tomatoes and peppers. I'm learning with that...I didn't do so well this past season. I crochet blankets and scarves. Learning to crochet more advanced items so as to save money on items the kids lose a lot of during the winter...like hats and gloves. They probably aren't really advanced but I'm still learning.

I like the idea of a hobby budget! I am going to present the idea...and we both have to stick to whatever we agree on is a fair sum. He has some credit card debt I want to work on minimizing so we can become more financially independent. 

All of this is a learning experience. I do have periods where I feel less ready than others and I do think that causes me to buy more during some stages. Maybe that is what he reacts to because, honestly, he hasn't said much about it since we started but, what with ISIS and Ebola...I've felt like we need more the last couple months.

Thanks for all the advice and letting me vent...it feels good I'm not alone.

~M


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

I believe in creating a weekly budget that my spouse can see written on the side of the fridge, allocate funds towards all your family needs and save a bit for preps, decide on how long to prep for. I stopped at 6 months worth of preps (food and other items) + now have about 8 months worth of water and stop right there. It all depends on what you are prepping for.
Our budget also includes saving money for our bank accounts and paying off all credit cards before the bills are due, great way to build very good credit rating.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Sorry this is actually quite alien to me :+


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

We live on the edge of Toronto, a major city in Canada and my hubby and I also had some misunderstandings on this subject but creating a clear budget which allows all bills to be paid really helped things and he knows that prepping is part of my culture, it's in my blood.


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Thanks TorontoGal! This is fairly new to both of us in the last year but we both have taken to our parts of prepping fairly naturally. We never have any bills go unpaid, thankfully.  We make very good money combined and are home bodies so I guess I feel like why should he be irritated...I could be going out to the bars with my friends like some people do and spending way more on one night than I spend all month. I wouldn't as I have responsibilities...but I guess it was a point I was attempting to make...this is far more useful. This past week was tight (everything seems to be due at one time, what's up with that?)...so, being that we have preps, I only had to buy about $20 worth of household and food items because I know we have plenty at home. 

I am prepping to have 6 months of food and water, as well. I estimate, conservatively, we are more than half-way there. Not nearly where I'd like to be and maybe that's why I feel like I have to rush. 

~M


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

indie said:


> Maybe you could create a "hobby" budget that allocates $X.XX to each of you per month. Then, he can buy his gun stuff but you'll have your own blow money for whatever. It'd be pretty hard for him to argue with what you buy then.
> 
> I understand spending a lot when you look around and feel like you're so far from where you need to be in terms of preps. Mine goes in phases - some months I won't spend much but then I'll get worried--Crap, I'm having a baby and I need MORE FOOD!!!--and go on a little spree again.


So was this a subtle way of announcing you're having a baybay, or did I miss it somewhere else because I can be a little out of touch?

If you're having a baybay, congratulations!


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

dannydefense said:


> So was this a subtle way of announcing you're having a baybay, or did I miss it somewhere else because I can be a little out of touch?
> 
> If you're having a baybay, congratulations!


I've mentioned it here and there.  Thanks! Fourth and final attempt at perfection, I swear.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Congrats, Indie


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks!


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

I wish I had great advice to offer. All I can say is I know how it feels. I think Indie's idea of a hobby allowance sounds like a great idea. At least he isn't actively against it and maybe he'll calm down in a couple days or weeks and it will blow over. And slowing down isn't as bad as having to stop completely, there's still a lot you can do with little to no money.


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

indie said:


> I've mentioned it here and there.  Thanks! Fourth and final attempt at perfection, I swear.


Congratulations! I remember reading your previous post but can't remember if I congratulated you.


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## Zed (Aug 14, 2014)

Congratulations


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Budget?? We buy stuff when on sale or it becomes an apparent need. So if an EMP hits tomorrow how will this budget help? You planned in your budget for mass inflation and empty stores? 

IMO your better to get what you need while you can still get it. So what if you carry a "little" debt. Are your families lives not worth it?? You don't really think the bank will hunt you down and demand payment in a SHTF scenario?

Budget for the payment and live with the peace of mind that your ready.


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Chipper said:


> Budget?? We buy stuff when on sale or it becomes an apparent need. So if an EMP hits tomorrow how will this budget help? You planned in your budget for mass inflation and empty stores?
> 
> IMO your better to get what you need while you can still get it. So what if you carry a "little" debt. Are your families lives not worth it?? You don't really think the bank will hunt you down and demand payment in a SHTF scenario?
> 
> Budget for the payment and live with the peace of mind that your ready.


Good point...we are trying to get my fiance out of credit card debt so we can use the money we'd normally pay in monthly credit card payments to purchase what we want. Granted, this is only important in non-SHTF life but I do see what you mean. I got myself into trouble in my early 20's with credit cards while active duty...I've vowed not to make that mistake twice.

Thanks Kahlan...I know you wrestle with a much worse scenario with your husband...I really do feel for you...in just this little fight I had with my fiance...I saw how much it would suck if he was 100% against prepping. It must be very difficult for you.

~N


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

The problem with debt is you are paying interest on what is owed. That interest subtracts from the bottom line of useable income.

Actually, you can increase stores without spending additional money. You may need to shop at some different stores though. BOGO like at Walmart & other grocery stores. Buy One Get One so you just got a free whatever for emergency stores. Dollar General they often have the generic brand in the same aisle as the big name stuff. I like the taste of the generic corn flakes over Kellogs & same with the raisin brand. And save over $1 per box. That dollar goes toward preps but actually doesn't cost me anything. And usually Friday & Saturday its spend $25 & get $5 off. That is another $5 off my grocery bill that I can spend toward preps.

And for those that need to be politically correct for their other half, call the preps extended pantry. Say that having the extra saves time & gas for special trips for whatever you might run out of. When your other half calls from the bathroom "need more TP" tell them we are out & you'll have to go to store & get some. LOL


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Several branches of the US Govt recommend a 72 hour reserve. And if you live in an area prone to issues (Hurricane, Floods, Earth Quakes, Arctic Blast, you are within 50 miles of a Nuke Power Gen, etc) or your area is subject to rolling brown outs and power fluctuations, then you should have 7 to 14 days. Have you ever looked at a map? I think Tucson Arizona is the only place in the whole damn US that doesn't fall into at least one of those situations and most of the populous centers fall into two.

Then there is Ebola... The odds of you getting Ebola are so flipping remote it isn't worth even mentioning. But. The odds of some quasi-political jurisdiction deciding that we need a 21 day quarantine as a knee jerk reaction to fact less information is pretty high. You and your very healthy fiancee could find yourselves living for 21 days making do with what ever you have in the closet and watching Netflix all damn day long.

So can you go 21 days?


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

GTGallop said:


> Several branches of the US Govt recommend a 72 hour reserve. And if you live in an area prone to issues (Hurricane, Floods, Earth Quakes, Arctic Blast, you are within 50 miles of a Nuke Power Gen, etc) or your area is subject to rolling brown outs and power fluctuations, then you should have 7 to 14 days. Have you ever looked at a map? I think Tucson Arizona is the only place in the whole damn US that doesn't fall into at least one of those situations and most of the populous centers fall into two.
> 
> Then there is Ebola... The odds of you getting Ebola are so flipping remote it isn't worth even mentioning. But. The odds of some quasi-political jurisdiction deciding that we need a 21 day quarantine as a knee jerk reaction to fact less information is pretty high. You and your very healthy fiancee could find yourselves living for 21 days making do with what ever you have in the closet and watching Netflix all damn day long.
> 
> So can you go 21 days?


EXACTLY GTGallop! And, we are in the Cleveland, Ohio area...secondary Ebola "zone." I've presented my fiance with various scenarios and even call our preps emergency items. I only call them preps here on this forum. IRL, they are just our emergency stores.

At any rate...I'm not going to feel guilty for this...I think he knows deep down what I'm doing is NO different than what he does with firearms/weapons...he can be difficult sometimes, tho. He'll admit that. Please, I mean NO offense by this but, when we got together, he was a single guy with NO responsibilities to anyone other than himself and he still sometimes resorts to this mentality. Plus, he comes from a well off family and, in my opinion, was/is kind of spoiled. He does not act spoiled 99.9% of the time...he is a wonderful man and I truly am his life and his queen and he treats my children wonderfully...they are mine from a previous marriage. But, there are times when it's obvious he doesn't think outside himself. For me...I'm a mom and I was raised to be self-sufficient and grew to put my children's needs before my own. My parents do fine financially and, after my divorce, I did borrow money RARELY (as my mother would harp until every penny was paid) but I was making a lot less money than I am now. Fast forward to now...my struggles remind me daily of what I do not ever want to experience again. There were times I went hungry to feed my kids because I couldn't afford food for myself what with the rent, car, utilities, etc.

For me, prepping isn't necessarily about worry over a pandemic, government breakdown, EMP's, etc. For me, prepping is for anything life-altering that may come up...to include financial/income loss. I don't ever want my fiance, children, or animals to starve or to go without...no matter the situation.

He KNOWS all this...but sometimes he gets so caught up in his worries that he fails to see mine.

At any rate...we'll be fine...I'm not stopping. Maybe I'll slow a little but I won't stop. I've asked for a dehydrator for Christmas...I don't need jewelry...I want something practical.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

While my wife is on board for the most part we have had tiffs over things that I wanted. I had to simply explain why. She herself is not really a prepper but understands most of my I am. All is some communication. I know easier said than done.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

There is a heck of a difference in interest rate between a car or home versus a credit card.


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## Ripley (Oct 17, 2014)

I'm sorry you aren't seeing eye to eye with your partner Ohio. I was never able to get mine to follow. The main difference is that I take care of the books, so when I go to the store he may see preps go into the cart but it doesn't register because he doesn't do the shopping either. This is how I was able to build a workable LTS system. All of it is kept out of sight, hidden in a crawl space. The kids are aware of it, but no one has to pay attention to it. The basement is my lair, it has been gradually lined with plastic shelves (dampness means plastic is the only option) and the shelves are slowly filling with jars, canners, totes, etc. 

With your situation, the budget seems like the best option. You might want to find ways to get preps out of his line of sight. This makes things easier on everyone. Out of sight, out of mind.


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

Ripley said:


> You might want to find ways to get preps out of his line of sight. This makes things easier on everyone. Out of sight, out of mind.


This is what I've had to do. I have blackout curtains attached to all the shelves with velcro. Not only does it help keep them out of direct light since I don't have a basement or root cellar (yet) but it also keeps him from having to _see_ them. He knows what's behind the curtains but it's not as much in his face so to speak.


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Ripley said:


> I'm sorry you aren't seeing eye to eye with your partner Ohio. I was never able to get mine to follow. The main difference is that I take care of the books, so when I go to the store he may see preps go into the cart but it doesn't register because he doesn't do the shopping either. This is how I was able to build a workable LTS system. All of it is kept out of sight, hidden in a crawl space. The kids are aware of it, but no one has to pay attention to it. The basement is my lair, it has been gradually lined with plastic shelves (dampness means plastic is the only option) and the shelves are slowly filling with jars, canners, totes, etc.
> 
> With your situation, the budget seems like the best option. You might want to find ways to get preps out of his line of sight. This makes things easier on everyone. Out of sight, out of mind.


Out of sight, out of mind...that's an excellent idea. I'm so freaking OCD/anal sometimes, it'll bother the heck out of me not to be all organized with everything together but, as Kahlan said...not having it in his face might make it a lot easier on us both. We do go shopping together but I put in the cart all food items (he just throws in his junk food that he pays for himself). He's a worry wart. I remember being this way when I was the bill payer when I was married. I know it can be anxiety-provoking when the other partner is spending money that the other (bill payer) may feel is unnecessary.

Yes, my best bet is to establish a budget for each of us...he can spend his on firearms/junk food and I can spend mine on preps...and to start putting additional preps received from now on in a different location. If I move what we have now, he'll know I'm trying to hide them. I'd rather not have an argument about that. My goal isn't to make him uncomfortable with what I am doing...I would LOVE if he was 100% on board and maybe we'll get there one day but, for now, I have to be okay with knowing I am not doing anything wrong...I am protecting my family.

My ultimate dream is to move "off the grid," in an extremely rural location and become as near to 100% self-sustaining as possible. I'll be able to retire fairly early and have an incredible retirement plan so, hopefully, I'll live long enough to see that dream come true. There are some fairly remote locations not too far away but the off the grid life would come post-retirement when the kids are off living their own lives. Now, our fairly short-term dream is to sell the house in the city and move into one of the close and semi-rural areas with a lot of land, unincorporated so we can fire our guns on our land, grow a large garden, and raise some livestock. It just pisses me off that all the once rural areas are building into massive and horrible cookie cutter developments. When I move, I want to be far enough from my neighbors that I would only see and talk to them if I want to.

Anyhow, enough dream rambling...maybe one day...

~M


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

ohiomama said:


> Out of sight, out of mind...that's an excellent idea. I'm so freaking OCD/anal sometimes, it'll bother the heck out of me not to be all organized with everything together but, as Kahlan said...not having it in his face might make it a lot easier on us both. We do go shopping together but I put in the cart all food items (he just throws in his junk food that he pays for himself). He's a worry wart. I remember being this way when I was the bill payer when I was married. I know it can be anxiety-provoking when the other partner is spending money that the other (bill payer) may feel is unnecessary.
> 
> Yes, my best bet is to establish a budget for each of us...he can spend his on firearms/junk food and I can spend mine on preps...and to start putting additional preps received from now on in a different location. If I move what we have now, he'll know I'm trying to hide them. I'd rather not have an argument about that. My goal isn't to make him uncomfortable with what I am doing...I would LOVE if he was 100% on board and maybe we'll get there one day but, for now, I have to be okay with knowing I am not doing anything wrong...I am protecting my family.
> 
> ...


We don't live in an off-grid-only area, but it is unincorporated and there are lots of farms for sale here and there. And it's close to ideal for raising kids. It's nice to be in an area without murders every other day!

And, my wife hates all forms of shopping (except her hobbies of crocheting and sewing). On the other hand, I love it. To me it's like going out hunting...


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## Wise Prepper (Oct 2, 2014)

So he had the CC before you? He charged them up alone? You're helping him pay his CC? And he doesn't like you spending your money on preps? Please tell me this isn't true...I hope you both are one the same line before marriage. At that point he may feel like he should have way more control on how the money is spent.. Me and my fiance of course have separate accounts. She buys all groceries, I pay for all eating out (we do so a decent amount). We split all other bills except vehicles and equipment. We even split preps (if she can afford the other half) She makes a very good income but i go a little hog wild a lot. I say im going to do x,y & z. She says ok but i dont have the money to pay for half. Then I can make my choice. We both have a CC but we spend our own and both pay them off every month for rewards. I couldn't image someone trying to change who i am. If you dont like who I am then go away! My ex tried to change who I was when she decided she wanted something else. All that got her was papers served...


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

OK OhioMama,
Sounds like you're in what we used to call a "pickle"... But don't you worry your pretty lil' Buckeye self, Slippy's Marriage Counseling (and other shit) is here to your rescue. So lets begin with a couple of questions;

Do you and your fiance reside in the same house or still live in separate houses? Rent or Own?
Have you received a Ring and a Wedding Date?
Do the youngsters live with you or your ex?
You mention that Fiance does all the bills but is in Credit Card Debt. Does it make good sense to you to let him pay all the bills?
Finally, did your fiance vote for our current President of the US?
Thanks
Slip


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

"I go a little hog wild a lot"

That's an interesting concept...


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Slippy's Marriage Counseling (and other shit) is here to your rescue.


You do this a lot don't you?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Kahlan said:


> You do this a lot don't you?


You have no idea...


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Kahlan said:


> You do this a lot don't you?


It's his only way of getting Jack Daniels and beer. Now you know why he isn't drunk all the time : )


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

thepeartree said:


> It's his only way of getting Jack Daniels and beer. Now you know why he isn't drunk all the time : )


Please, cry no tears for ole Slippy; his burdens may be heavy...but the rewards for helping the foolish and downtrodden, while not golden, are indeed priceless.

Slippy Oct. 21, 2014


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

I don't know... Everyone on here says gold is the way to go.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I spend way, way, way too much money on prepping. WAY too much. An unreasonable amount.

On the other hand, we make a lot of money, I have retirement savings put aside should money still mean something in 20 years, and we live (and have lived for many, many years) completely debt free including the house(s) & all property.

I spend money I can "afford" to spend, since we are putting away retirement funds (in case the money still has value in the future). 

Many of my preps are investments as well, like buying the land and making improvement this last year has been. We could sell it right now for more than we have in it, so that's pretty good, right? 

Having said that, I spend WAY WAY WAY too much money prepping


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

If too many bills are due at around the same week, sometimes a call to one or two, they might allow a change in payment date.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Ohiomama, you should go read the thread moonshinedave posted today. 

My view on credit cards has changed. I used to charge my way out of problems. It was a vicious circle that I clawed my way out of. When I was free, I cut up all my cards except the one with the highest limit. I do not use it though. It is part of my emergency funds. If something were to happen and I couldn't afford to pay for it out right, I have an extra safety net.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Using a credit card often and paying the bill early maintains a great credit rating. Useful thing to have when buying a house or other properties, new car..etc


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Fight the camera tickets!!!! It's illegal in most states as the tickets are issued by the company that own the cameras, not police officers. If it applies in your state, it's a violation of the law. In my state, the issuing officer must witness the violation themselves, and, issue the ticket. Courts all over the country are shooting them down.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

TorontoGal said:


> *Using a credit card often* and paying the bill early maintains a great credit rating. Useful thing to have when buying a house or other properties, new car..etc


Actually, no it doesn't. They only see your balance once a month, so the frequency of use has absolutely no bearing on your credit rating. What you're actually looking for is always maintaining a balance within 10-20% of your total credit available. That's across all your cards, and/or lines of credit (including loans) though obviously you don't want to have any particular card get too close to the upper limit. So if you have 3 cards with a $5,000 balance each, across all three cards you'll want to maintain a balance in the realm of $1500-$2500.

If you're crafty, you can actually call some of the card issuers and ask when they report, and they'll tell you; if they don't, there's a lot of online resources for finding out, and that's the time of the month when you want to maintain that balance. If you're all paid up, you'll want to use your cards whereas if you've been using your cards you'll want to make some payments . Some companies (such as Discover) won't post the payment until after they report if you make it within 3-5 days of their reporting period.

There are a multitude of other factors as well, I was just mainly addressing the "use often, pay often" misconception. Bonus information! Don't trust sites like Credit Karma. That's not actually your FICO score, it's commonly known as a FAKO. They don't have access to the algorithms the bureaus use as they're extremely closely guarded, and have instead made their own based on educated guesses. So sometimes it's accurate, other times it's not even in the same ball park.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I love firearms collecting. That said, you can not survive eating your cartridges. Your right in acknowledging there is more to prepping than just firearms. If you can find a way so he thinks its his idea, well, problem solved. Easier said than done but my wife somehow pulls it off with me.


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## Wise Prepper (Oct 2, 2014)

bigdogbuc said:


> Fight the camera tickets!!!! It's illegal in most states as the tickets are issued by the company that own the cameras, not police officers. If it applies in your state, it's a violation of the law. In my state, the issuing officer must witness the violation themselves, and, issue the ticket. Courts all over the country are shooting them down.


They are illegal in the US! The 6th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says I have the right to confront my accuser. Let me know when that camera shows up in court.... I never pay those!


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Sorry, it was a craaaazy night last night and day today. I'll try to catch up on answering the questions posed...it'll be loooong, sorry!

He did have the CC debt before he met me. He does pay all the bills. He doesn't tell me what to do with my money...he just gets concerned with bills and is always afraid I am spending too much. I hate money...I hate thinking about it, dealing with it, etc. I am a terrible budgeter...I've always been this way. I have ZERO problem with his guidance to keep me from spending all my money and being broke for 2 weeks before my next pay day. He doesn't have bad intentions...with prepping, I just believe they are misguided intentions since I don't go overboard...usually...USUALLY! I like our money arrangement. I give him money for bills but he pays them all and ends up paying more than I do for bills. However, I pay for all the food and household expenses so it all evens out to almost an exact 50/50.

If he didn't do the bills, I'd probably forget when half were due. I do fine with my cell phone bills, my daughter's before/after school care, and medical bills but I hate thinking about this stuff. He is incredibly organized in his bill paying...he has a special calendar when everything is due and has not had one single late or missed payment in his entire life...his credit rating is amazing. So, if it a'int broke...

BUT...we want to get him out of debt...for our future. It may not be MY debt but we are a team, a family and we help each other out. He provides a wonderful life for us (of which I also contribute) and, for our future, I will absolutely help him crawl out of his mountain of CC debt.

I have a very beautiful and sparkly ring. That I helped pick out (at his request) so he wouldn't spend some ridiculous amount of money! We got my engagement ring, wedding band, and his ring for less than $3K...which I would have liked to spend less but it's paid for so it doesn't matter now. And it's GORGEOUS...I get compliments all the time! Anyhow, that's neither here nor there. There is no wedding date, tho. And this is by my choice. I have physical problems (knees) that I want to correct before we marry (financial...I don't want him worrying about my medical bills). But, I have no desire for a big wedding and neither does he...we are eloping in the Pacific Northwest with my children and our parents. I want healthy pain-free knees to do hiking, camping, canoeing, all sorts of outdoorsy activities.

The kiddos live with me but are with their dad a couple nights a week. We own the house and are looking to sell and move into a larger house with lots of land...

He did NOT vote for our current President and neither did I, Slippy!!! We are pretty conservative. 

The camera tickets...what a f&%king racket that is. They aren't illegal in Ohio...yet. They will be on the ballot for Cuyahoga county next month, I believe. I have been fighting them for months and tried writing a letter, etc. No go...I just want them done with...they are actually not as expensive as I thought they'd be. I'm absolutely FINE with not paying him but my fiance is not. I just want the headache over with. That's so wrong, I know but...I have enough to worry about.

We did talk some more...no fighting. We listened to each other's side and, while I don't think he'll be jumping up and down to help me prep anything not related to weaponry, he is coming around and was a lot more understanding than he was Saturday. He sees what's going on in the world and is trying to understand I am thinking of us...our family...and our future should anything happen. I think he's starting to "get" it and WHY I'm doing it. I asked if he wanted to look his starving family in the eyes and say, I'm sure glad I was worried about our bills! He didn't like that but I think it was an eye-opener.

~M


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

ohiomama said:


> We did talk some more...no fighting. We listened to each other's side and, while I don't think he'll be jumping up and down to help me prep anything not related to weaponry, he is coming around and was a lot more understanding than he was Saturday. He sees what's going on in the world and is trying to understand I am thinking of us...our family...and our future should anything happen. I think he's starting to "get" it and WHY I'm doing it. I asked if he wanted to look his starving family in the eyes and say, I'm sure glad I was worried about our bills! He didn't like that but I think it was an eye-opener.
> 
> ~M


This is my favorite part right here. I am so glad to hear you guys talked. And reasonably like adults with no fighting or yelling and listening to each others sides. I'm happy for you! Sounds like everything is going to be ok if you guys can keep communicating. Good job


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

I' not so sure you're being smart about the marriage and your knees. I'm going to assume that you both have medical insurance over and above the baseline. What you need to do is to have your partner analyze his insurance and yours. Odds are that one of them will be superior for paying for your knees, but it won't matter if you're not married. Pick the best, get married, and then get everybody on the same insurance!


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

TorontoGal said:


> Using a credit card often and paying the bill early maintains a great credit rating. Useful thing to have when buying a house or other properties, new car..etc


Honestly, I am of the old school, if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it.

My one "exception" for this rule is for a house, because there are very few of us who can drop down the money on a house... but stuff like payments for cars, furniture, appliances, etc? No thank you.

Buy what you can pay for, and trade up as you go.

We make a decent income, but it's nowhere near 6 figures... but since we have no debt (we stayed in the same house, did a 15 year mortgage and knocked it out early by pre-paying principle) we can afford to save for our needs. I make a car payment "to myself", every month. I make a house payment "to myself" every month.

The cost of our BOL, 30 acres, building a pond, putting up a cabin, all that stuff... that's the exact same amount of money as a new Toyota Sequoia. Pick a BOL, or a stinkin SUV. Additonally, since we didn't have that SUV we saved up the money and paid cash.

The power of not having payments is astounding. Yes, my house isn't as nice as some... and yes, my pickup truck is a 1999 and a bit rusty... and no, my neighbors are not impressed by our cars or by our "keeping up with the jones's) but you have to pay the piper one way or another.


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## Wise Prepper (Oct 2, 2014)

Awesome! As long as he is starting to understand then you make him see the light a little at a time. I think is great yall are trying to get debt free together. My only point from before is that he needs to understand why you choose to use part of the money for prepping. GL to you two


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Honestly, I am of the old school, if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it.
> 
> My one "exception" for this rule is for a house, because there are very few of us who can drop down the money on a house... but stuff like payments for cars, furniture, appliances, etc? No thank you.
> 
> ...


That's the way to do things S & P doesn't make sense to drive a shiny new car if you can't pay for the things you actually need. the more payments you have the more money you are throwing in the trash. You don't own it until that last dollar is paid and you end up spending twice as much by paying for the interest and fees tacked on


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

For the most part, I hate having payments too...I had a pretty nice car that was payment free but, unfortunately, I was in a pretty terrible accident last Halloween and the car was totaled...it was rainy, slippery, and a teenager on a cellphone slammed on her brakes because she didn't see the car in front of her was stopped. I had about a little less than a car length in front of me. With the rain and leaf-covered road, on a 45 mph street, I slid and slammed into the back of her car at what was estimated to be 25-35 mph (accident reconstruction, I guess). The entire street was shut down, I was removed with the "jaws of life," removed roughly by the waist down because the paramedics were keeping my neck supported and transported to the hospital. I had my seat belt on and that kept me from hitting the windshield. I never want to be hit with an airbag again...that effing HURT! I had whiplash and some gnarly bruising but, all in all, I was fine. The knee I had surgery on a month prior was injured taking me out of the car but I was lucky because I know it could have been much worse.

Anyhow, I got the entire value of my totaled car to purchase another car...in cash, basically. I ended up getting a very awesome used (5 year old) Chrysler 300C and, while we do have a car note because my old card didn't pay for the entire new used car, it's terribly low for what this car is worth. I wanted something with a LOT of metal around me. A big car. The accident freaked me out and there was no way in hell I was going to drive some little car around. For what I felt comfortable driving, I needed to spend more than the value of my old car. I'm okay with that.

I can't take away what he did with CC debt before me. But, I don't have a single credit card and I have no desire to get one. I also believe, besides our home and vehicles, if I don't have the cash, I don't need it. Electronics, clothes, whatever it is...I don't buy it unless we have cash (i.e. our rings). We make over 6 figures in combined income and do just fine with our bills every month. Our house is not anything fancy...it's a modest 1950's bungalow in a nice city neighborhood where the property taxes are not high. We've outgrown it tho (we keep adding animals) and it's a 1950's house we are slowly updating...as cash is available.

In a perfect world, we'd have no payments and boat load of indispensable income but, 'tis not our life right now. We are in our 30's...we are working towards our financial independence and I am happy with the progress we've made. We are lucky to have the jobs we do, making what we do. My health insurance is far superior but his employer pays his 100% (but wouldn't for dependents) we, even if we marry, we will probably keep insurance as it is. My insurance is great, yes, but I still end up paying a portion of services, anywhere from 40% to 10%. I use preferred network services whenever possible. The only doctor I see that isn't in my insurance network is my dermatologist but, I'm not changing her for anything. I was diagnosed with Stage II malignant melanoma on July 3rd of this year. I love her, I am comfortable with her, and she's on top of everything...I'll pay her 100% out of pocket if I had to and make no apologies for that. I go every 3 months for follow-ups but, after December 2015, assuming there is no recurrence or another primary, it'll go to 6 months, then back to yearly. She saved my life and is worth every cent of what I pay. My orthopedic surgeon is in network so visits are miniscule cost but the surgery cost me a couple hundred. Both of our children have [not severe] medical conditions that does cost us (my ex-husband and I).

Anyhow, I know I rambled far more than I should have...I am a space cadet today...hopefully, I touched on everything???

All in all, we have great communication and really don't fight often. When we do, it's generally financial. But I'm just happy he is coming around.

~M


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Oh and GOOD NEWS on the camera ticket front...got a notice in the mail that the one ticket has been taken off...I challenged their legality and they took one off but refused to take the other...but it's better than nothing and I'll take it!


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

ohiomama said:


> I have physical problems (knees) that I want to correct before we marry (financial...I don't want him worrying about my medical bills). But, I have no desire for a big wedding and neither does he...we are eloping in the Pacific Northwest with my children and our parents. I want healthy pain-free knees to do hiking, camping, canoeing, all sorts of outdoorsy activities.


This knee thing jumped out at me. I have two artificial knees and both were caused from having surgery for torn meniscus. Some percentage of the population (I think it is less than 10%) have a problem when they do this meniscus (microscopic) surgery ... it ends up causing RAPID deteriorating of the bone cartilage, and you become bone-on-bone within 6 months. I mention this so that you can at least talk to your orthopedic guy about this -- you, especially at your young age, want to be extremely careful as to what surgery they plan on doing. Once you get to bone-on-bone there is NO option left other than Total Knee Replacement (TKR). And for someone who is only in their 30s, most OS will not perform that surgery, so the patient is left in agony with only be able to use topical ointments, and pills for pain relief.

If possible, try conventional treatments (knee braces, special exercises, etc.) before ANY surgery. If those don't work, then consider SYNVISC injections. This is artificial synovial fluid that is inserted into the knee joint for lubrication. It is a series of three shots (they ain't cheap, but they are covered by insurance) that has about a 50/50 chance of being effective.

Good luck -- but whatever you do, be CAUTIOUS in how you approach your treatment options. There is no going back on the knees. I am forever stuck with metal knees. I am not bitching because I have zero pain, but they also are not like the real thing. You lose some mobility and balance.

Oh -- one more thing. If you are a jogger, GIVE IT UP NOW. Become a walker - you can maintain your physical condition by being a fast-paced walker, but with bad knees you must give up the jogging. It is the worst thing possible on knees. AND, spend a few extra bucks and get really good walking shoes. I recommend you get to a Walking Company store and see their selection of ABEO shoes. They are like walking on clouds. My wife and I both wear them now. I know what the hell I am talking about here, as I have been a walker for 24 years now. I have cumulated over 25,000 miles in my walking program (which just happens to be the circumference of the earth at the equator). I am working on my next 25,000 ::clapping::


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Yeah, the surgery I had last August included a menisectomy (sp)...my knee is shot to shit now. I am bone on bone on the weight bearing surfaces but, unfortunately, the 2 surgeons I saw (the one who did my last surgery and a 2nd opinion one) both will not consider a TKR or partial. The surgeon that did the menisectomy and chondroplasty will not consider ANY surgery other than a cadaver cartilage transplant/rebuild (for which I've been waiting over 1 year for a match for). The 2nd surgeon suggested a mosaicplasty but he wants an MRI to ensure there is enough cartilage on the non-weightbearing surfaces to transfer to the weight bearing surfaces. It's been a total mess. I have had the series of Hylagan (hualuronic acid) injections but they did not help. My recently "fired" pain management clinic said I had to get cortisone injections every 3 months in order to receive medication prescription. Both surgeons said NO MORE CORTISONE. When I told the pain clinic this they said I would be labeled non-compliant if I chose to reject the cortisone. Needless to say, I gave them a big "**** you," and that was that. They weren't helping control my pain anyway.

I have a TENS unit from my last pain management doc (who left the clinic I was going to and I haven't found him in his private practice yet...that he said he was going to open) and I use that and my terribly bulky brace...it does help. I get by day in and day out with my TENS therapy, bracing, and naproxen. I'm going to introduce some natural therapies now that I'm taking a much needed break from doctors...I couldn't handle it anymore. The "game" was worse than the pain (emotionally). I am young so doctors were conservative in their surgical intervention recommendations and in medication...I was not getting any real relief from orthopedic or pain management.

Anyhow, I had to stop running a couple years ago. With OA, sitting for prolonged periods makes me stiff so I walk as much as I can to keep my knee loosened up It's hard because walking hurts but sitting does too. Right now, I have orthotic supports in my shoes but I'll take up your suggestion on the ABEO shoes...I'm always looking for shoes to help. Thankfully my workplace is casual so I'm able to wear my tennis shoes with orthotic inserts. If I do wear dress shoes, I wear the Dr. Scholl's ones.

Anyhow, thank you for your feedback! I'll talk to my orthopedic surgeon regarding Synvisc. I am pretty irritated with him, tho...for refusing any procedure but the cadaver cartilage transplant...I am frequently wondering what his motivation is because I certainly don't think it's giving me relief. The 2nd surgeon said the transplant is a terrible idea and is highly suggestion I do not follow through...he said it has a low success rate.

~M


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

ohiomama said:


> Yeah, the surgery I had last August included a menisectomy (sp)...my knee is shot to shit now. I am bone on bone on the weight bearing surfaces but, unfortunately, the 2 surgeons I saw (the one who did my last surgery and a 2nd opinion one) both will not consider a TKR or partial. The surgeon that did the menisectomy and chondroplasty will not consider ANY surgery other than a cadaver cartilage transplant/rebuild (for which I've been waiting over 1 year for a match for). The 2nd surgeon suggested a mosaicplasty but he wants an MRI to ensure there is enough cartilage on the non-weightbearing surfaces to transfer to the weight bearing surfaces. It's been a total mess. I have had the series of Hylagan (hualuronic acid) injections but they did not help. My recently "fired" pain management clinic said I had to get cortisone injections every 3 months in order to receive medication prescription. Both surgeons said NO MORE CORTISONE. When I told the pain clinic this they said I would be labeled non-compliant if I chose to reject the cortisone. Needless to say, I gave them a big "**** you," and that was that. They weren't helping control my pain anyway.
> 
> I have a TENS unit from my last pain management doc (who left the clinic I was going to and I haven't found him in his private practice yet...that he said he was going to open) and I use that and my terribly bulky brace...it does help. I get by day in and day out with my TENS therapy, bracing, and naproxen. I'm going to introduce some natural therapies now that I'm taking a much needed break from doctors...I couldn't handle it anymore. The "game" was worse than the pain (emotionally). I am young so doctors were conservative in their surgical intervention recommendations and in medication...I was not getting any real relief from orthopedic or pain management.
> 
> ...


Be careful! I once relied on acetaminophen and Naproxen. Now I don't have a liver.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Ohio

Forget the SYNVISC as you've already tried it with the Hylagan -- same stuff, just a different brand.

If I were you -- I would put my best hope on the "cadaver cartilage transplant/rebuild" or the mosaicplasty. And here is why - at your young age, regeneration of cartilage or even meniscus is possible because the blood vessels still exist in both. Once you get into your fifties, etc., those blood vessels disappear. So -- since you are much further along than I originally thought, I'd go for it. 

Regarding the shoes -- even though you can buy them online, I recommend against it. Go to the actual Walking Company store -- there is probably one near you if you live close to relatively large city. Something like 200 stores nationwide. There is a huge selection for you to choose from and they will guide you to the right pair. And they also have available custom inserts matched to your feet via computer analysis. My wife has had 7 surgeries on her right foot and 1 surgery on the left. The right foot has been very painful ever since and these are the ONLY shoes we have found that get rid of almost all the pain when walking. Myself, because of two TKRs, I found that I could no longer walk properly in my standard Reebok walking shoes. It was like they were clod-hoppers. The ABEOs put spring back in my step with no clop clop feeling.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

oops - one more thing. I am not surprised over any of your surgeons refusing to do a TKR. They simply won't normally do it on someone your age. The artificial knees are designed to last approx. 20 years. The problem is that many people who have TKR surgery find they need a revision surgery much much sooner than the 20 years. What usually happens is that the hardware gets loose within the bones. Part of this is due to the fact that so many refuse to exercise for bone health -- i.e., walking, which is an impact exercise necessary for good bones. So - do what you've been doing and WALK and then walk some more. Anyway, I have heard of some people in their thirties that are finally approved for the TKR surgery, but they have to really pursue it. Revision surgery is MUCH more risky and the success rate is much lower, so that is why the surgeons don't like to do the original surgery, because they know that in 20 years (or sooner) you'll be back and their chance of success will be at risk.


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> Be careful! I once relied on acetaminophen and Naproxen. Now I don't have a liver.


I try to limit as much as possible my intake of NSAIDs. Naproxen works the best for me when I DO take an NSAID and I am able to get by with a lot less and less frequently. That being said...this time of year my pain is greatly increased and, whereas I generally take only a couple times a week, I'm taking near daily. I'm trying to find a natural [and safe] product that won't kill my innards like rx meds but that works and won't cost me a zillion dollars.

Long story short...a wreckless pain management office put me on and abruptly took me off (doctor change when mine left the practice) a very powerful extended release narcotic medication. It was the absolute WORST experience of my entire life being so abruptly discontinued and I basically said never ever ever EVER again. This particular doctor faced reprimand from his employer and the state medical board for his actions in my case. I knew little about pain medication...I was desperate for relief and naieve and the vicoden from after my knee surgery wasn't effective and I was unwilling to take more and more and more. Anyhow, I never dealt with pain management before and even my overall doctor experience prior to my knee problems was minimal. In hindsight, if I knew what was going to happen, I would have turned around and ran.

I'm terrified of getting hooked on that stuff and, after the experience with that doctor, I haven't wanted to take any of those medications. So, it's been tricky finding a "magic" solution and the combination of things varies each day...one day heat works more, one day cold, one day the brace is better, etc. I wear compression sleeves (Tommie Copper) and I definitely notice a difference if I forget to put it on!

DerBiermeister...You explained the issues with TKR and revision in a more "makes sense" sort of fashion. Both surgeons didn't really elaborate past, "No; you're too young." Thanks!

Anyhow, thanks so much for the suggestions. I'm taking a doctor break for my sanity so any non-medical suggestion is fantastic!!! I'm going to look for that store ASAP!!!

~M


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

Beer, its not just for breakfast anymore


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Ohio

One thing you can add to your box of tricks. It is a topical gel called BioFreeze.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WHOH3U/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687442&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002J9HBY8&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=06NSDJHZCRPVK2VVXMNJ

I buy it in the 32 oz pump bottle. And always keep it on hand. It will give you a few hours of pretty good relief when you want to go hiking or something like that. Also, use it at night if your knees are bothering you. I've been using this stuff for years and it does a good job. I see now that you can even buy it at Walmart. Shop around for the best price as this stuff is on the expensive side.

Now that I have had my 2nd TKR (four years ago), I don't use BioFreeze much anymore. But I did injure my right knee very badly back in May, and this got me through a couple of months while the quads healed


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Jeep said:


> Beer, its not just for breakfast anymore


You can't drink all day unless you start in the morning.


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Yum, beer!

Funny thing...I now see why my fiance was sooooo "understanding" suddenly the other day. I stopped at home real quick yesterday after work and there was this gigantic package on the front step...that was openened by someone. Which prompted me to immediately investigate to ensure nothing was taken. Otherwise, I would've just left it to him. Here, inside this gigantic package, was a cache of items from BudK...an enormous sawback machete and a bunch of other knives and self defense items. He did get me a U.S. Army 4" assisted opener...butter me up??? 

Not a terribly expensive package but wtf? He got upset over food items and then orders $70 worth of knives? Aye!!!

Anyhow, I'm going SHOPPING this weekend! Yeah!

~M


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