# Starting Kung Fu... So lemme' hear it! lol.



## MountainMan (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm really excited that Mr.PineTree guy is moving in. Not only is he a vital part of our organization, with his forestry knowledge, but he is also a Kung Fu instructor. 

He has agreed to teach myself and my children (maybe even the wife if we can talk her into it) the art of Kung Fu. I have heard this is the most effective hand to hand martial art and is particularly good in close quarters, confined fighting as it is such a flexible and adaptive art. 

We're all incredibly excited to begin this journey and I'd love to hear what my prepping peers think.


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## Omega Man (Sep 5, 2012)

I have a relative who is a 2nd degree Tae Kwon Do black belt. He sparred with a Kung Fu guy once. He said he had a hard time defensively adapting to the Kung Fu style...He was very impressed by it! Good Luck!


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

that sounds super! what a neat treat to learn a new way to beat the stuffing out of an agressor! have a ball!
now i need to see your kung fu grip!


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## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

MountainMan said:


> I'm really excited that Mr.PineTree guy is moving in. Not only is he a vital part of our organization, with his forestry knowledge, but he is also a Kung Fu instructor.
> 
> He has agreed to teach myself and my children (maybe even the wife if we can talk her into it) the art of Kung Fu. I have heard this is the most effective hand to hand martial art and is particularly good in close quarters, confined fighting as it is such a flexible and adaptive art.
> 
> We're all incredibly excited to begin this journey and I'd love to hear what my prepping peers think.


 The words " Kung Fu " cover a myriad of different systems . Which specific system? And insofar as it goes it will be the method of training more than the individual system that will show a beneficial effect or lack thereof. Training in a non resistive completely non-contact manner will show much less benefit than the alternative.

There is no "best" system , regardless of origin , though many will attempt to state so , mostly based upon ego , and there are very large differences in the manner of training within various different systems.


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## MountainMan (Apr 4, 2012)

Jazzman said:


> The words " Kung Fu " cover a myriad of different systems . Which specific system? And insofar as it goes it will be the method of training more than the individual system that will show a beneficial effect or lack thereof. Training in a non resistive completely non-contact manner will show much less benefit than the alternative.
> 
> There is no "best" system , regardless of origin , though many will attempt to state so , mostly based upon ego , and there are very large differences in the manner of training within various different systems.


The system of Kung Fu we are practicing is a largely abandoned form. It was originally called Su Lum Fa but is better known as Si Lum Fung Su.

And no, lol, this is not no-contact. We're both pretty big guys and I have considerable fighting experience. I have no desire to learn the "motions" without the application. Plenty of full contact, heavy sparring.


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## chris73 (Jan 4, 2013)

Using UFC as a base grappling (wrestling), submissions (bjj) and striking (boxing, muay thai) seem to be the most effective (effective meaning you want to take the other person out)


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

I was raised in a traditional Tang Soo Do school when I moved here at like 7. It was brutal because Koreans love a good fistfight but looking back it was a once in a lifetime thing to be not only raised but educated by the guy who taught Chuck Norris the art (which is among the most extensive outside traditional Chinese Gongfu or Kung Fu) which is akin to white crane style brought from the Okinawan isles. It also involved a lot of etiquette and social training, such as how to be a better bargainer and leader. Interestingly enough Tang Soo was basically the curriculum of the old governing society of the royals in Manchuria. Hwang Kee and the Mu Duk Wan was my middle childhood. I have a lot of warm memories of having my ass kicked regularly, breaking boards and having epic, film-worthy gang battles across the Dojang floor with about 13-25 other 7-10 year olds. Seriously, the shit us kids did in there was jaw-dropping. We would start talking smack before class and wind up facing off like west side story meets MMA smackdown. Old man Kim would laugh half drunk from his office while we literally kicked and beat each other wildly. Some of those kids could jump well above your head and land kicks that could topple grown men. I recall during second year they made us start donning full sparring gear the moment we arrived because we would do that crap. Donnie Yen (played donatello in the original teenage mutant turtles movie) was one of those instructors and one of the kids in that class with me ended up in 'romeo must die'.

A lot of good my kickboxing skills will do me now, but most of what I learned with my hands still works. Martial arts are not a skill, they are a way of life. If you want skills to hurt people with, go krav magra all the way. Kung Fu will take a lot of practice but it teaches some damn good mental and physical skills.


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## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Leon said:


> I was raised in a traditional Tang Soo Do school when I moved here at like 7. It was brutal because Koreans love a good fistfight but looking back it was a once in a lifetime thing to be not only raised but educated by the guy who taught Chuck Norris the art (which is among the most extensive outside traditional Chinese Gongfu or Kung Fu) which is akin to white crane style brought from the Okinawan isles. It also involved a lot of etiquette and social training, such as how to be a better bargainer and leader. Interestingly enough Tang Soo was basically the curriculum of the old governing society of the royals in Manchuria. Hwang Kee and the Mu Duk Wan was my middle childhood. I have a lot of warm memories of having my ass kicked regularly, breaking boards and having epic, film-worthy gang battles across the Dojang floor with about 13-25 other 7-10 year olds. Seriously, the shit us kids did in there was jaw-dropping. We would start talking smack before class and wind up facing off like west side story meets MMA smackdown. Old man Kim would laugh half drunk from his office while we literally kicked and beat each other wildly. Some of those kids could jump well above your head and land kicks that could topple grown men. I recall during second year they made us start donning full sparring gear the moment we arrived because we would do that crap. Donnie Yen (played donatello in the original teenage mutant turtles movie) was one of those instructors and one of the kids in that class with me ended up in 'romeo must die'.
> 
> A lot of good my kickboxing skills will do me now, but most of what I learned with my hands still works. Martial arts are not a skill, they are a way of life. If you want skills to hurt people with, go krav magra all the way. Kung Fu will take a lot of practice but it teaches some damn good mental and physical skills.


 Vey nice post Leon , though I'd debate with you as regards " most extensive" , there are many systems that could be construed to be that , and all of 'em are argueable.

If you don't mind though I'll add a few things by way of correcting some common modern misconceptions , by way of qualification , though I generally am very closemouthed about this as regards personal info. I've been at this for well past 40 years and hold advanced rank in four systems and brown belt lrank in the old *pre-olympic style* Judo , and I boxed and kickboxed both as a professional and amateur and wrestled from grade school through college , having gone to college on a wrestling scholarship , two of those four systems are rather noted for their outright brutality , another is a pure combat system with NO sport adjuncts. By the way I have quite some degree of respect for pre-Norris Tang So Do , having spent quite some time in Korea and other parts of the Far East.

Firstly , UFC oriented methods are geared towards *in the ring competition with rules and a referee* , not that such techniques won't work in a street environment , that said certain reflexes developed for sport competition can *get you hurt or killed* in the street environment. You *do not* go to the ground as a matter of course on the street , you folks think about the street environment for a moment , pavement , curbs , trash , broken glass , gravel , hard/sharp projections.........and in a confrontAtion the possibility of a half dozen of your opponents friends standing around waiting to kick your head off when you're getting the best of their boy.

***SUBMISSIONS*** , beyond controlling a drunken friend or someone you really have no wish to injure they are of *limited use* on the street , *every* submission started as a *transitional* move to the BREAK or dislocation within the original combat oriented Jiu-jitsu systems , if the situation is serious enough that you have moved to the submisssion then one may as well go right ahead and carry through to the break/dislocation and remove one of the opponents weapons , if it's that serious then don't waste time trying to make him " cry uncle" , break it and he cannot use it.....not any time soon.

BJJ/GJJ is NOT I repeat NOT " Ju-jitsu" , it's the old syllabus of combat Judo as is existed previous to the '30s , any who doubt this can do the research for themselves.

*ANY* given single system/art is a based to START from , this goes across *all* " style" lines.

NEVER , not EVER should one discount a style or system because it's *simple* , one will find that many allegedly simple systems aren't quite so simple , in addition one will find that certain allegedly simple systems can be so efficient by dint of constant repetition and practice so as to be HIGHLY effective , examples of course being boxing , wrestling and Judo , though at advanced rank Judo is actually not quite so simple............the KISS principle is something to keep in mind on the street , a double left hook followed by a reap or sweep is more effective in the street for most folks than the best " dojo ballerina" techniques.

ANY given system is only as effective as it's training methods , that's again ANY. And systems that were highly comabt effective can be completely ruined by compliant , nonresistive and non-contact training methods , if you never ever get banged in the gym , dojo ,dojang,kwoon then it's gonna be one HELL of a shock when you catch a good one on the street , getting hit or thrown is not the end of the world if you're used to it , if you aren't then it CAN be exactly that.

And folks , forget what you see on televison or in the movies , or for that matter what you see on the UFC shows , and NEVER underestimate an opponent in the street environment based upon size , sex or body structure..not EVER.

When you;re looking into schools , if they try to get you to sign a contract.WALK , if they are traing completely non-contact...WALK...if you walk in the door and the head instructor is some twenty year olf claiming advanced rank in 8 different styles/systems.....WALK.


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## HVU (Dec 23, 2012)

Omega Man said:


> I have a relative who is a 2nd degree Tae Kwon Do black belt. He sparred with a Kung Fu guy once. He said he had a hard time defensively adapting to the Kung Fu style...He was very impressed by it! Good Luck!


This is realy true.. I'm a black belt in TaekwonDo myself and the two hardest martial art's ive been upp against has to be Kung fu and Kravmaga.. I managed to beat the Kung Fu guy just barely because i was A LOTT stronger than him.. But Kravmaga beat me, since that a friend of mine from Libanon has been teaching me Kravmaga and I have been teaching him TaekwonDo! Now that i know some of his tricks i have another pluss when im in real fights (The last years at my school getts drunk nearly every weekend...)


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## chris73 (Jan 4, 2013)

Of course one shouldn't go to ground but sometimes (I'm sure with your background you'd agree) you don't always have a choice but (and I probably should have explained myself a bit better) UFC rules (especially at the start) were as close to "street fight" conditions as one could reasonably expect. 

So watching what they do in situations where they have to win you can get an idea of what reasonably "works" and what doesn't when the other opponent can kick, punch and wrestle back.

IE Front kick to body and low kick to leg are quite popular but Spinning round house kick to head not so much.

I did the TMA thing for a couple of years on and off but recently started MMA training and the biggest difference is the amount of sparring we do (both hard and soft sparring) and (IMHO) the quality of the sparring in whatever fighting style you do is what will make you a better fighter

Which is why no one wants to mess with a boxer


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## Scotty12 (Jan 5, 2013)

Gotta stay with it. Got a black belt in Tae-Kwon-Do as a teen. Now I'm 47 and I can't reach my own a** to kick


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## MikeyPrepper (Nov 29, 2012)

Yea great stuff..


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## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

I owned a school teaching Tae Kwon Do and Kenpo for almost 25 years. If nothing else it will get you in shape. It is good to learn, as it also tends to take some of the attitude out of some people, or the fight when they realize how easy we all can be hurt.


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## MikeyPrepper (Nov 29, 2012)

Cool...


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## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

Here we go. Asking which martial art is best is like asking what religion is best. It always starts a flood of bs. Ive taught martial arts since 1990. Here is the deal. All of them provide positive things for everyone. Learn what you can and defend yourself. All of them can help and are better than nothing. So learn all you can and remember it is to keep them from hurting you. Not to learn how to hurt people.


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

bennettvm said:


> Here we go. Asking which martial art is best is like asking what religion is best. It always starts a flood of bs. Ive taught martial arts since 1990. Here is the deal. All of them provide positive things for everyone. Learn what you can and defend yourself. All of them can help and are better than nothing. So learn all you can and remember it is to keep them from hurting you. Not to learn how to hurt people.


Every day old man Kim would at some point reiterate that same tenant. "I do not teach you this to beat up on people!"


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## MikeyPrepper (Nov 29, 2012)

jet li??


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## Pestalence (Feb 6, 2013)

Honestly Krav Maga is the way to go. Fast and easy to learn. Brutal and effective as well.


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## Pestalence (Feb 6, 2013)

Krav is also very practical. Teaches knife, bat, and gun disarm techniques.


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## MountainMan (Apr 4, 2012)

Lol. I would no sooner ask this group which martial art is better than I would ask them to choose the best caliber or bunker design.


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## punch (Nov 6, 2012)

What about snatching the pebble from your master's open palm? 

Use what works for you. Practice avoidance when prudent, don't look like a victim and be decisive. I recently gave my aunt some pepper spray on a handy keychain. She asked, "What are you going to use?" I said that if they are close enough to spray, that I'd prefer to just shoot them. My uncle lost it. Looking back, it was pretty funny even though I didn't catch it myself the first time around. Be safe everyone.


punch (.45ACP cause shooting twice is just plain silly)


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## BamaBoy101 (Dec 9, 2013)

MountainMan said:


> I'm really excited that Mr.PineTree guy is moving in. Not only is he a vital part of our organization, with his forestry knowledge, but he is also a Kung Fu instructor.
> 
> He has agreed to teach myself and my children (maybe even the wife if we can talk her into it) the art of Kung Fu. I have heard this is the most effective hand to hand martial art and is particularly good in close quarters, confined fighting as it is such a flexible and adaptive art.
> 
> We're all incredibly excited to begin this journey and I'd love to hear what my prepping peers think.


What style of kung fu does he teach. Wang Chung is my preference...


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

I am a master in Click-Ching-Pow...and avoidance of issues that require me to have to beat the hell out of anyone anymore. Too old, don't have much fighting left in me so I'm saving it for something good. Plus they give me a taser. But back in the day, I took Okinawan Kenpo Karate. Like some others, I don't think I can reach my own ass to kick it anymore. :-D

Confuscius say; If man too old to fight, he just kill you.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

I like the toys...

I like a lot more than that about it - but I do like the toys


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Please tell me that is a replica and not a real Katana.


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## BamaBoy101 (Dec 9, 2013)

oddapple said:


> View attachment 3710
> 
> I like the toys...
> 
> I like a lot more than that about it - but I do like the toys


The cutting edge grind is a bit odd to me. What's the details on this piece? I will have to post a few pics of mine!


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

It's 1040 carbon steel, full tang, sharp 'ol brush hog just like it looks. Didn't get 'em to "replicate" anything with? Ahahaha!


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I have always wanted a real hand forged Katana but never wanted it bad enough to spend the money on it. Maybe someday - or maybe I will try my hand at making one. I have made some laminated (Damascus) steel knives before but never tried it with a sword. After I get my shop put together and the other major jobs I need to do first.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

You just have to go in sections at a time with a sword. They don't pull and warp like plain high carb steel. Are not as brittle to forge either. Just be sure and start with a bar four times what you want your blade to be and on your finishing heats you'll pack it. It will "feel" like you should pack it and you just pack it firmly, not hard. But pretty firm, just not like you were trying to harden it that way. Get a couple guys to strike for you on the drawing heats and work it hot above critical until your finishing heats. A job but pretty gratifying.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I would want to use two alloys and then fold them around fifty times. It would be nice to have help but my slaves don't have the aptitude for smithing. 

I recognize that it will be a long process which is why it is low on my list of priorities. I also need a deeper (longer) kiln to make a sword.


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## jesstheshow (Nov 18, 2013)

I am a black belt in several martial arts 

Have fun!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Aaaahhh, Kung Fu, brings back memories of when I was young, I remember it like it was just yesterday...Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting. Those cats were fast as lightning, in fact it was a little bit frightening. But they fought with expert timing...


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

My unqualified opinion that the key to becoming a warrior is to fight. IMO most practice is speed and muscle memory --- likewise strength training is geared.

Just remember that if you are training you should train for activities. Lifting weight is great but if you want to climb climb, if you want to kick kick. 

Bear in mind many forms build off of common ancestors. 

This should not be build one style and it is perfection --- doing training will be learning integration --- like katas and flows some motions will be natural to meld with other motions in reponse to specific attacks, defences or situations.

In my unqualified position kinesiology yeilds to know what is ideal movement in combat... but the essentials of most forms are wonderful as the objectives in combat tend to be limited to under 1000 goals.

IMO the key to improve is to put the time in. There is no bad form only bad adoption of what you are learning.

congrats on your classes enjoy them.


I've devolved quite a bit 

IMO you will eventually find that aspects of the following will be most effective

dim mak
kravmaga
systema
and akido.


OH and remember a fist is great but a knife or sword or staff is a much more deadly fist. Learning the lesson from ninjitsu., is that anything can be a weapon if it can be put to task.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

So many people think that they can take Karate and start off like this 




and after a few classes they will fight like this.


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## g0t0 (May 6, 2014)

Nuff said...


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I think that it is a very good idea. Besides the obvious about learning how to defend yourself, it will keep you in shape physically, it will also have a good affect on you mentally. I would caution you about becoming over confident though. The only reason that I bring it up is that on another forum there was a debate on gun-control. Some weenie stated that he was a black belt in Karate and with that and his ball bat he could easily kill anyone with gun. He even went so far as to say that if someone shot him, it could be fixed by a doctor, but if HE hit you in the head with his bat, you would be dead..... I don't know if he got that attitude because of his supposed Karate expertise, he had a really great bat, he was incredibly stupid, he was nuts, or all of the above. The point that is, don't get over confident. Guns ARE the great equalizer.

A 90 year old lady with a handgun who knows what she is doing opposed by a 20 year old with a black belt 10 feet away is most likely going to be the one left standing..... or sitting in her wheel chair for that matter.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

<< A 90 year old lady with a handgun who knows what she is doing opposed by a 20 year old with a black belt 10 feet away is most likely
going to be the one left standing..... or sitting in her wheel chair for that matter.>>

Hmmmm...don't underestimate....and actually, guns are the great "pussifier" really. The most dishonorable weapon ever made.
But, there's not a lot of honor in conquering and history has consistently gone to those with the superior weapons, not philosophies.
Guns keep the world but are also they way even those most unfit to control it can.


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## phrogman (Apr 17, 2014)

Not trying to start a war here on what dicipline is best but if you really want to learn how defend yourself make sure you learn some type of ground fighting too. You don't have to learn how to wrestle or BJJ but at leat know how to defend it. Just like the video that was posted with Royce Gracie, it doesn't matter how well you can punch or kick if you dont knock them out fast it is only a matter of time before they wrap themselves around you and then it's all over. I would say that about 90% of the fights that I have been in or seen go to the ground. I seen a good boxer get beat by someone that had no real fighting skills because he got tackled and taken to the floor and did not know how to get the guy off him. People say that MMA isn't real fighting because they have rules and stuff but the one thing you can learn from it is that if you can't defend a takedown the wrestler/grappler is going to wear your ass out. In real life the only fights that don't go to the ground are the short quick knock outs and even then they are likely to get on top and continue beating the crap out of you. I took Kung Fu when I was a kid, did some kick boxing as a teenager and as adult I have practiced grappling.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

I have been practicing Broken 8 drill with Eskrima sticks. Wali Kali, the traditional Philipino fighting Martial arts are worth considering as well. Hope this helps!


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I'm practicing the double tap...the art of getting punched or kicked and still punching two rounds through your chest...what kung fu beats that? I WANNA LEARN THAT ONE.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Old SF Guy said:


> I'm practicing the double tap...the art of getting punched or kicked and still punching two rounds through your chest...what kung fu beats that? I WANNA LEARN THAT ONE.


lmao your a funny prick bro


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Yep...Gin rummy...I win


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Old SF Guy said:


> Yep...Gin rummy...I win


you may have won the battle, oh screw it I surrender


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

You know that the next time I'm in Australia...I wanna buy you a drink.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Old SF Guy said:


> You know that the next time I'm in Australia...I wanna buy you a drink.


will take you up on that, and introduce you to Bundy rum


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## Maxxdad (Feb 5, 2014)

Any of the Arts is better than none of the Arts. Being well rounded is the key. It's kinda like our need for E power after SHTF. Lots of ways to do the same thing, not all eggs in one basket.

I grew up in Korea (8th through 12th grade). I was very lucky to study the Fu under a Master named Shin Dae Wong. He has since moved to Italy and opened a school (google). I studied 3 days a week and cleaned his house on the weekends. We also had as part of High School, Tae Kwon Do, twice a week. I had bruises on top of bruises, but gained a type of self awareness and skill that has carried me through some tough times and hard fights. Then when stationed in Japan I began to study Judo and was a member of the Marine Corps Far East Club. We had matches against Japanese clubs and at one point played the Japanese National team. Needless to say they pretty much wiped the mat with us. What has happened over the years is that I was able to adapt "favorite" parts of each to fit most situations. I'm still a hands up and back away kinda guy, but in those occasions when that hasn't worked, I have been the one Waking Away after. Good luck in your training.


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## Loed (Jul 9, 2014)

I being an agonistic kung fu fighter for about 12 years, winning numerous national titles and some european... I can say that kung fu, outside of a competition, is not the best for self defense. Some techniques are good, as the grappling... but most required an amount of concentration that's no one are likely to have during a real stressful and unwanted situation, to defend yourself is more better a specific course. The best should be to take self defense lessons along with kung fu lessons. Kung fu teach you how to move and to coordinate, the self defense course teach you how to avoid dangers and how to manage and eventually eliminate them.


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## GasholeWillie (Jul 4, 2014)

I studied KF for about 1.5 years. The main instructor is deceased now, his brother still teaches, possibly in the same building. The man I was studying under was Roy Wetzel. Indirectly. Roy trained the instructors who trained the students. Occassionaly Roy would give instruction. Google his name if you have a few minutes, quite a life story. I think I studied for about 1.5 years and was slowly making my way up the ranks, Think I had obtained 2 stripes when work location changed and it was no longer possible to attend training. These days I wish that I had continued, but I also remember being "pushed" towards more commitment of time which would cost more money etc. that I did not have.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

I think it is the best all around for those that are able to it. Never let me down yet ~


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## Free (Mar 13, 2016)

Just a couple thoughts. It's not the style it's how its applied and taught. Never underestimate any style or person. Your mindset is most critical. a master can apply basic moves in ways a novice won't even recognize until it's defined to him. There are only so many moves combined in all styles, a little over 100. Learning martial arts is like learning to write, first you trace the dotted lines to form a letter then you start printing letters along a line then combining letters into words then writing sentences and finally writing without thinking about it and only glancing at the page while doing it. The latter takes decades to accomplish.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)




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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

Hand to hand combat is very good ,, but in all with all of the training you do you can't stop a pointed gun that has been fired at you .


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Never bring kungfu ninja stuff to a real fight.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm a fan of big-fugn gun style and for close in stuff I try go revert to bat-ton er hammr style defense. If I go to the ground I will use the Indian war cry followed by the turtle technique with fetal slapn scream technique.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Yeah, Bruce and Chuck could deal it out, and there a a lot of black belts out there, that are best left alone. That is why I carry a gun, or a knife or a stick; I am no match for them or a gang. And I can live with that, I will never be a black belt.


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