# The NRA giving ground...like the old days



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Who here does not think that the terror watch list is ripe for abuse? Who here thinks that due process will be delayed and abused if this were to be the path taken?



> Fairfax, Va.- The executive director of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, Chris W. Cox, released the following statement regarding terror watchlists:
> 
> We are happy to meet with Donald Trump. The NRA's position on this issue has not changed. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. *Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist.* At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed. That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the U.S. Senate. Sadly, President Obama and his allies would prefer to play politics with this issue.


https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160615/nra-statement-on-terror-watchlists


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

You know, I was thinking about upgrading to life member. Thanks for bringing this up to us.

The NRA is handing over to the enemy exactly what it wants to deprive us of our rights without the benefit of due process.

Why can't they stand and stand strong, rather than thinking some sort of compromise will work this time?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm an NRA member. I don't agree with everything they do. But is there a better way to have my voice heard? 

Compromise is the grease of life.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Sort of like a vote for Trump. I vomit a little when I send in my renewal each year. I think it is alot like war. You gain ground and you give ground. You win some battles and you lose some battles. The tide of war will favor you one day, and turn against you the next. I still say:

"I am CSI-Tech and I am the NRA, Freedom's safest place."

I ain't sayin' "I am also perfectly happy with Wayne LaPierre's decisions".


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> I'm an NRA member. I don't agree with everything they do. But is there a better way to have my voice heard?
> 
> Compromise is the grease of life.


GOA is a better organization. I do not believe in giving any ground, especially in this case when is sets to stage for abuse and costly court fights just to practice your 2nd amendment right.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I became a member after many years of sitting out because it was a requirement to join the local gun club. I'll be a member until I acquire land and clear a range of my own.

I don't have to join a club to help the enemy strip citizens of their God-given rights without due process.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

RedLion said:


> GOA is a better organization. I do not believe in giving any ground, especially in this case when is sets to stage for abuse and costly court fights just to practice your 2nd amendment right.


Thanks. I will check out the GOA.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

RedLion said:


> GOA is a better organization. I do not believe in giving any ground, especially in this case when is sets to stage for abuse and costly court fights just to practice your 2nd amendment right.


300,000 members Vs. 5 million. One has to concede the fact that the NRA has significantly sharper teeth in the political arena.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Denton said:


> I became a member after many years of sitting out because it was a requirement to join the local gun club. I'll be a member until I acquire land and clear a range of my own.
> 
> I don't have to join a club to help the enemy strip citizens of their God-given rights without due process.


It's the only way to fly Denton. I went to mine yesterday and shot Bi metal bullets, did mag dumps and bump fires. It is next to a pond full of fish eating otters. I shoot into a berm with hardwoods and a hill beyond it and have hills to the right left and rear. It's only 80 yards long but my eyes ain't so sharp as they was in my sniper days, so it doesn't really matter.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> Compromise is the grease of life.


Compromise is the grease on the slope of gun control.
It isn't truly a "compromise" when only one side is ever giving up anything.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

RedLion said:


> GOA is a better organization. I do not believe in giving any ground, especially in this case when is sets to stage for abuse and costly court fights just to practice your 2nd amendment right.


I don't believe I have ever heard the media mention the "all powerful GOA lobby."
Nor hear a liberal politician badmouth and whine about the GOA.

I belong to the NRA, because that is where my money will do the most good. That's not saying the GOA is a bad, or ineffective, organization. Just that the NRA has more "juice."


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Three times the NRA has sold out the members that I remember.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

I saw Bill O'Reilly has jumped on the ban AR-15 ban wagon now. It might happen this time, there is starting to be bi partisan support.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I saw Bill O'Reilly has jumped on the ban AR-15 ban wagon now. It might happen this time, there is starting to be bi partisan support.


For years I have ignored that blowhard.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

It is what it is. This week is an overtime check and our LGS has DPMS Ar-15's on sale for 489. Might be a good time to pick one up because its starting to look like 2012 all over again.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I saw Bill O'Reilly has jumped on the ban AR-15 ban wagon now. It might happen this time, there is starting to be bi partisan support.


Strike one: That blow hard was born in Levittown, New Jersey. 
Strike two: He is my age, but somehow avoided military service.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I was trying to remember how things were during the last AWB. I know only LE/Military could get 30 rounders, ARs came without a folding stock or bayonet lug and thumbhole stocks were all the rage. I don't remember a huge opposition but I was more apolitical when it was implemented. In addition to buying some thibngs to fill a couple small voids I need to read the 2015 weapons ban.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

I'm more negotiable then most, but as negotiations go I want a return. If people are to be banned from buying guns for being on a list of people not convicted of any crime then I want:

1) Any immigrant on that list removed from the country immediately,
2) Every citizen on that list notified of their placement on that list immediately,
3) A court established to protest and demand the removal from that list by any citizen to be convened within 72 hours of the citizens request. 
4) A right of appeal of the courts position by a jury. 
5) Severe penalties for any bureaucrat that puts the wrong person on the list, and if done with criminal intent they lose any retirement funds and instead go to prison.

I'll think of more I want later because giving up things should not be made easy.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

OK, I read the 1994 ban and the one they tried to pass last year. In a nutshell, if you don't have anything now, get used to shooting Ruger mini 14s ad 30s (which suck), SKSs, M1 Garands and a few other auto loaders with smaller capacities. Forget buying 30 round magazines and the AR will become a thing of the past.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> OK, I read the 1994 ban and the one they tried to pass last year. In a nutshell, if you don't have anything now, get used to shooting Ruger mini 14s ad 30s (which suck), SKSs, M1 Garands and a few other auto loaders with smaller capacities. Forget buying 30 round magazines and the AR will become a thing of the past.


I called Senators and congressmen everyday voicing my opposition to the Clinton AWB. A lot of good it did, no one in Washington cared and the NRA helped them write the bill.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

I'm not reading where they NRA is compromising to the return of the AWB? So is there something here I'm not seeing? What I read is they are capitulating to preventing those on the terror watch list from buying guns without an extensive delay? What am I missing?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I can see the government deciding to put everybody on the list and you have to earn/prove your way off.. oh sorry, they are backed up.. the process takes 3-5 years


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## Snocam (May 29, 2015)

I am an NRA member as of this year. I feel like it is the best way to put my hard earned money to work for us gun owners. I am so freakin unhappy with the way this country is going. It's going to take alot of work to put things right. I hope we can do it.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Strike one: That blow hard was born in Levittown, New Jersey.
> Strike two: He is my age, but somehow avoided military service.


Strike three: O'Reilly is a closet libtard.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

if anyone cares, I am a life NRA member plus my wife, son and I have regular memberships. I am also a member of GOA and NAGR. NRA has money and clout. Time to push the leadership about not compromising.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I don't believe I have ever heard the media mention the "all powerful GOA lobby."
> Nor hear a liberal politician badmouth and whine about the GOA.
> 
> I belong to the NRA, because that is where my money will do the most good. That's not saying the GOA is a bad, or ineffective, organization. Just that the NRA has more "juice."


Do like Boss Dog and join both. 
I like these guys too. Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

stowlin said:


> I'm not reading where they NRA is compromising to the return of the AWB? So is there something here I'm not seeing? What I read is they are capitulating to preventing those on the terror watch list from buying guns without an extensive delay? What am I missing?





Maine-Marine said:


> I can see the government deciding to put everybody on the list and you have to earn/prove your way off.. oh sorry, they are backed up.. the process takes 3-5 years


Obama ?looks scared? to call terrorists Islamic says ex-CIA director James Woolsey - Washington Times

But little Barry and his gang consider christian conservatives to be a greater threat (to his agenda). 
New Obama Terror Czar Will Target Conservatives, Christians

Obama: 'They cling to guns or religion' | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I saw Bill O'Reilly has jumped on the ban AR-15 ban wagon now. It might happen this time, there is starting to be bi partisan support.


Saw this as well, not that I was ever a huge fan of his anyway. I will never watch him again.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Get ready for a lot more names to start showing up on " Terror Watch Lists".


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> 300,000 members Vs. 5 million. One has to concede the fact that the NRA has significantly sharper teeth in the political arena.


Maybe, but I would rather roll with an organization that truly match my personal beliefs instead of settling. I do think that the NRA has gotten better overall, but to offer concessions that will be abused and will allow for further abuses is unacceptable. As Patton said...."I don't like to pay for the same real estate twice."


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Get ready for a lot more names to start showing up on " Terror Watch Lists".


Might be a good thing. That Mateen guy should've had red flags flying when he bought those guns.

At the very least a red flag at background check should've alerted the FBI that the sleeper had possibly and most likely gone "active"


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Operator6 said:


> Might be a good thing. That Mateen guy should've had red flags flying when he bought those guns.
> 
> At the very least a red flag at background check should've alerted the FBI that the sleeper had possibly and most likely gone "active"


Yes, it might be a good thing for tyranny but not for liberty.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Prepared One said:


> Saw this as well, not that I was ever a huge fan of his anyway. I will never watch him again.


Is it so bad to make certain guns harder to obtain? You can still buy them, it just will take a couple of extra steps? Before everyone jumps all over me about taking peoples' guns away...I'm not anti-gun!!! I could careless what most people own. Is there no wiggle room on any gun laws?


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Yes, it might be a good think for tyranny but not for liberty.


Guy came in a local gunshop that had some sort of green card or school visa

The guy could barely speak English but he was legal to buy a gun.

No damn way that guy should've been able to buy a gun, but he was.

He was a student at the University of South Alabama.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Mish said:


> Is it so bad to make certain guns harder to obtain? You can still buy them, it just will take a couple of extra steps? Before everyone jumps all over me about taking peoples' guns away...I'm not anti-gun!!! I could careless what most people own. Is there no wiggle room on any gun laws?


There are already multiple gun laws on the books Federally and Statewide.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Operator6 said:


> Guy came in a local gunshop that had some sort of green card or school visa
> 
> The guy could barely speak English but he was legal to buy a gun.
> 
> ...


Eliminate all Visas and all immigration for 10 years minimum.

Go Jags!


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

I believe that before any United States Citizen is barred from owning a weapon they should get a hearing in a courtroom in front of a judge and should be allowed to present their defense with representation should it be desired. If your are not a citizen then this doesn't apply to you. 

I don't think terrorists, criminals, or people who are dangerously mentally ill should be allowed to own a gun but again, they should get their day in court and if circumstances should ever change they should have the right to petition to have their rights restored.

Ill throw this out there too. I would gladly turn in my AR-15, all my magazines, all my 5.56/.223 ammunition to the Feds for a new M1 Garand, the equivalent of what I had in my magazines in the form of bloc clips and an even exchange of ammunition. I'd probably even trade my evil "high capacity" semi auto pistol, its magazines/ammo for a new Colt/Springfield 1911 or a Smith 686/Ruger GP100 and the ammo equivalent. I'd consider it a fair trade, it gets some evil black guns off the street, I have something thats just as good for my purposes of recreation/defense, and I wouldn't feel any less armed.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

This link clearly shows the intentions of the current administration and sure to be the same of a Clinton administration. Think of this when people start proposing barring gun purchases by no fly list or terror list.

Give up your guns? Drudge takes on DHS: ?You go first!?


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

how quick they are to strip away 2nd amendment rights without due process...... I say if you are going to do that, may as well nip it in the bud and take away their freedom of speech to spread propaganda and freedom of religion so they cannot even follow Islam... then see what the Liberals think of taking away a person's constitutional rights...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Mish said:


> Is it so bad to make certain guns harder to obtain? You can still buy them, it just will take a couple of extra steps? Before everyone jumps all over me about taking peoples' guns away...I'm not anti-gun!!! I could careless what most people own. Is there no wiggle room on any gun laws?


A ban would restrict the sale of any firearms identified in the ban. It wouldn't add steps. It would forbid the sale.
Also, since we're talking about cosmetic features being the only reasons for a ban, altering them to slip through the ban's restrictions leaves us with no net change.
The same effective firepower ends up in the same hands that wanted it originally, good or bad. Bans like that simply don't work.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

How about we start abiding by the gun laws that are already in the books. Also, let us ALL abide by it, no exceptions. Meaning all cops, body guards and government agencies. If I can't carry a gun in Washington, no one should be able to. That includes secret service, and all congressional and Senate bodyguards. New York state only allows 7 rounds in a mag, cops should not have more than 7. If a place is gun free zone, no guns period, regardless of who is carrying it. These senators should lead by example...


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

I don't think some of you realize that you are not required to be a citizen of the US to legally purchase a gun.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> A ban would restrict the sale of any firearms identified in the ban. It wouldn't add steps. It would forbid the sale.
> Also, since we're talking about cosmetic features being the only reasons for a ban, altering them to slip through the ban's restrictions leaves us with no net change.
> The same effective firepower ends up in the same hands that wanted it originally, good or bad. Bans like that simply don't work.


Absolutely correct. I am still amazed that people still fall for gun control pull. There is an abundance of facts out that are easily accessible that show it does not work and that gun ownership makes us safer. Here is a good link that the POTUS and dems always fail to mention even though it was an Obama EO. Front Matter | Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence | The National Academies Press

A minimum of 10 x greater use of firearms for self-defense than crime. A fact that can not be denied.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I would gladly turn in my*(a)* AR-15, all my*(some)* magazines, all my*(a few thousand)* 5.56/.223 ammunition to the Feds for a new M1 Garand, the equivalent of what I had in my magazines in the form of bloc clips and an even exchange of ammunition.


Exceptions noted ... I'm with you, Amigo! That would be an awesome trade!!!


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Hemi45 said:


> Exceptions noted ... I'm with you, Amigo! That would be an awesome trade!!!


Love the Garand, but If the SHTF you'll be hard pressed to find the ammo it is designed to shoot. I guess you could reload.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> Love the Garand, but If the SHTF you'll be hard pressed to find the ammo it is designed to shoot. I guess you could reload.


If they put in a program AR-15 for M1 Garand I bet Garand Ammo would become much more common.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

I wouldn't trade in all my AR's, they're too damn useful but to get rifle for rife, mag for clip and round for round - HELL YES I'd do NTP's deal!!! I'd love to have a cherry Garand with few thousand rounds of 30.06!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I'm an NRA member. I don't agree with everything they do. But is there a better way to have my voice heard?
> 
> Compromise is the grease of life.


Yes, join GOA, they won't compromise your RIGHTS nor smooch with RINOS/liberals/socialists/communists.

Pucker up to H-Beast.....


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Mish said:


> Is it so bad to make certain guns harder to obtain? You can still buy them, it just will take a couple of extra steps? Before everyone jumps all over me about taking peoples' guns away...I'm not anti-gun!!! I could careless what most people own. Is there no wiggle room on any gun laws?


I few extra steps? Look, I am all for keeping any guns, not just the evil black semi-autos of death, out of the terrorist and bad guys hands. Mish, I love you to death but I think you might be a little naive in your thinking here. You have to look at the liberal socialists stated intent. To get all guns. Period. That's their stated end game. They will demand simple common sense gun laws ( Already on the books ) and make it seam as though it is the gun lobby and owners that are being unreasonable if they don't allow the next simple and logical step in gun control. Problem is they won't stop there. They never do. Ask an inch and take a mile. They will ask for more and more regulations, taxes, and oversight till no one but the very rich or politically connected can afford or leagally own firearms. It's simply what they do Mish. It's how they have been taking our money for taxes, our freedoms, our privacy, and our rights for years.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> How about we start abiding by the gun laws that are already in the books. Also, let us ALL abide by it, no exceptions. Meaning all cops, body guards and government agencies. If I can't carry a gun in Washington, no one should be able to. That includes secret service, and all congressional and Senate bodyguards. New York state only allows 7 rounds in a mag, cops should not have more than 7. If a place is gun free zone, no guns period, regardless of who is carrying it. These senators should lead by example...


As always, you wisdom is beyond reproach.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Mish said:


> Is it so bad to make certain guns harder to obtain? You can still buy them, it just will take a couple of extra steps? Before everyone jumps all over me about taking peoples' guns away...I'm not anti-gun!!! I could careless what most people own. Is there no wiggle room on any gun laws?


Yes, it is.

What certain guns? Weapons that We, The People would require if we were to attempt to retake the nation from tyranny? What weapons do you think the tyrants in power would prefer us not to have?

Is there no wiggle (sp) room on any gun laws? No! There is no room regarding my rights! You do not make the world a better place by infringing upon my rights!


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

The end game is the guns, all the guns. They already control the press and information chain. They need the guns.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> Yes, it is.
> 
> What certain guns? Weapons that We, The People would require if we were to attempt to retake the nation from tyranny? What weapons do you think the tyrants in power would prefer us not to have?
> 
> Is there no wiggle (sp) room on any gun laws? No! There is no room regarding my rights! You do not make the world a better place by infringing upon my rights!


You've got that right Denton.

Death by a MILLION cuts.

Mish don't understand the 2nd is NOT about hunting or target practice, it IS ABOUT TYRANNY!!!

Got that Mish?

Look at what our GOOBERMENT did to "help us" after hurricane Katrina. Well take our guns, NOT protect us nor give real help. What do think Barry's E orders are about? It sure ain't freedom!

BTW, protection is not a function of LE. That has been affirmed by SOTUS rulings. So how will a DISARMED *United states citizen* protect themselves? Call 911?/ *NOPE!* Well, I better go sharpen up the butter knives.....

Mish, how many guns do You have, ammo, and are you learned/proficient in using them? Or are your rants just liberal mantra? Is an AR15 an ASSault rifle? Or just something vilified by the ignorant gun grabbers? How has gun control worked in England and Australia? or that matter Canukland?


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

6811 said:


> How about we start abiding by the gun laws that are already in the books. Also, let us ALL abide by it, no exceptions. Meaning all cops, body guards and government agencies. If I can't carry a gun in Washington, no one should be able to. That includes secret service, and all congressional and Senate bodyguards. New York state only allows 7 rounds in a mag, cops should not have more than 7. If a place is gun free zone, no guns period, regardless of who is carrying it. These senators should lead by example...


How about no laws for the rotten legislature that are not the same for we the people? No exceptions and no country club prisons for those like H-Beast.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> Love the Garand, but If the SHTF you'll be hard pressed to find the ammo it is designed to shoot. I guess you could reload.


You've got to be kidding? 30-06 is everywhere!


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> You've got to be kidding? 30-06 is everywhere!


The Garand has a powder burn rate requirement. Some of the loads commercially available for the '06 would bend the op rod because of the slow burn rate and port pressure being to high. Of course that could be fixed by having an adjustable gas plug.


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