# the 1911 45 acp is an inferior pistol



## alterego

I have been considering purchasing a 45 acp 1911. But I already have an S&W M&p in 40 cal with 15 plus one and realized by considering load and energy charts that a 1911 would be inferior to what I already have. And figured it would only be good for nostalgic purposes. 

.40 S&W

User Rating (209):3.55/512345

.45 ACP

User Rating (137):3.61/512345

Bullet diameter0.4 in (10.2 mm).452 in (11.5 mm)Neck diameter.423 in (10.7 mm).473 in (12.0 mm)Base diameter.424 in (10.8 mm).476 in (12.1 mm)Case typeRimless, straightRimless, straightRim diameter.424 in (10.8 mm).480 in (12.2 mm)Case length.850 in (21.6 mm).898 in (22.8 mm)Place of originUnited StatesUnited StatesOverall length1.135 in (28.8 mm)1.275 in (32.4 mm)Velocity900-1449 FPS700 - 1150 FPSDesignerSmith & WessonJohn BrowningCostMore expensive than 9mm, cheaper than .45More expensive than .40 S&W and 9mmDesignedJanuary 17, 19901904Penetration9.8-25.0”11.3-27”VariantsNone.45 ACP +P, .45 SuperMaximum pressure35,000 psi (240 MPa)21,000 psi (140 MPa)Used byUnited States and othersUnited States and othersExpansion0.40 – 0.76”0.45-0.79”Case capacity19.3 gr H2O (1.255 cm³)25 gr H2O (1.625 cm³)Primer typeSmall Pistolprimarily large pistol (but also small pistol in some brass)Felt Recoil"sharp and snappy" and slower to get back on target for follow up shots.Heavier and pushes one's hands backwards instead of up. Does not have much muzzle flip.Rifling twist1 in 16 in. (406 mm)1 in 16 in (406 mm)

I figure I will be banned for dropping this thread on a Sunday morning in the face of the faithful.


----------



## Denton

What is that nonsense you posted, there?

Look, if you are afraid of a man's gun, just say so. We won't throw rocks at you!


----------



## Smitty901

When it comes to weapons buy what you want. If you spend hours trying to justify it with charts and numbers you will never be happy. The 1911 .45 has done the job a long time and done it well. No other weapon has been copied or honored as the 1911 Colt .45 There is a reason. Need more rounds I have a 14+1 1911 .45.
The 40 was to save the world it petered out quickly but still a good round. Sometimes you you have to put the charts and numbers down and just go shoot something.
We won't ban you just offer rehab


----------



## Arklatex

Here we go...


----------



## alterego

Denton said:


> What is that nonsense you posted, there?
> 
> Look, if you are afraid of a man's gun, just say so. We won't throw rocks at you!


I woke on the wrong side of the bed this morning and want to sling shit at you namby pambies who carry 1911s with 7 rounds in your magazine. I figure it's because your not willing to stop more than two assailants.


----------



## Arklatex

http://www.diffen.com/difference/.40_S&W_vs_.45_ACP

Here is the article he got info from.


----------



## Denton

alterego said:


> I woke on the wrong side of the bed this morning and want to sling shit at you namby pambies who carry 1911s with 7 rounds in your magazine. I figure it's because your not willing to stop more than two assailants.


I figured it was because you woke up on the wrong side of the bed and put your wife's skirt on. My bad.

From what site did you get that information, by the way?


----------



## Denton

Arklatex said:


> .40 S&W vs .45 ACP - Difference and Comparison | Diffen
> 
> Here is the article he got info from.


Thanks. I missed your response.


----------



## Prepared One

Denton said:


> I figured it was because you woke up on the wrong side of the bed and put your wife's skirt on. My bad.
> 
> From what site did you get that information, by the way?


Funny.


----------



## Smitty901

Look at it this way plenty of 40 ammo on the shelf no one buys it .


----------



## alterego

Smitty901 said:


> Look at it this way plenty of 40 ammo on the shelf no one buys it .


Its hard to believe there are that many sissy out there.


----------



## Denton

alterego said:


> Its hard to believe there are that many sissy out there.


So says the man who prefers a round made for accounts and lawyers over the round that was made for warriors.

:highly_amused:


----------



## Denton

Why don't you simply get a 10mm? I have a friend who owns and carries a Glock 20, and he is very happy with it.


----------



## alterego

Denton said:


> So says the man who prefers a round made for accounts and lawyers over the round that was made for warriors.
> 
> :highly_amused:


Apparently old washed out used up warriors. From almost a hundred years ago. I suppose your going to say real men shoot round balls and black powder next.


----------



## Denton

alterego said:


> Apparently old washed out used up warriors. From almost a hundred years ago. I suppose your going to say real men shoot round balls and black powder next.


I could say that, but it wouldn't really play into this discussion very well.

Still, you are saying the .45 ACP is good for the trash heap of history, and the .40 ACP is the way to go?

I do believe your wife is going to be pissed when she wakes up to find you are wearing her clothes!


----------



## Arklatex

Using your logic some would consider 9mm superior to .40. Your point is capacity right?

http://www.diffen.com/difference/.40_S&W_vs_9mm


----------



## Arklatex

Denton said:


> I could say that, but it wouldn't really play into this discussion very well.
> 
> Still, you are saying the .45 ACP is good for the trash heap of history, and the .40 ACP is the way to go?
> 
> I do believe your wife is going to be pissed when she wakes up to find you are wearing her clothes!


He is saying the 1911 sucks. I think.


----------



## Piratesailor

Thanks for the laugh this morning!

I woke up and crawled to the end of the bed and picked up my 9mm..... it was lonely.


----------



## Smitty901

How many here are old enough to remember the 40 was to replace the 9mm . The 9mm would be no more , the 40 would wipe it off the face of the earth. At first it seemed like it could happen. Then it fell flat on it's face. Nothing wrong with the 40 it did not slide down hill as bad as some like the Sig 357 but just faded out.
The 10mm was also some what of the same deal.
The 1911 .45 still swinging after all these years


----------



## Denton

Arklatex said:


> He is saying the 1911 sucks. I think.


But, but, his web site is about the .45 ACP compared to the .40 ACP, not particular bullet launchers.

Did you watch the video? I couldn't make it through the whole thing. The fellow has a bad habit of doing that "tsk" thing before starting a sentence.

Anyway, the .45 expands more, according to that site, and the .40 is snappier and takes longer to acquire the second shot.

On the other hand, the .40, according to the site, might penetrate more layers of clothing, and that is important for those living up north. I live 25 minutes from the Alabama/Florida border.

I'll leave the .40 ACP to the accountants and lawyers.


----------



## Denton

In all seriousness, I have no problem with the .40 ACP. I'd go with heavier grain bullet so there'd be less powder, making it less "snappy."


----------



## Denton

In keeping with the humor we are finding in this thread....


----------



## 1skrewsloose

I agree that too much is put on ballistic numbers, move away from spray and pray. LE carried wheel guns for years, knew to make shots count. my .02.


----------



## Prepared One

Nothing like a gun fight on Sunday morning. LOL


----------



## tango

The 1911 Colt is the pistol all others want to be.
The .45 is what the .40 wants to be when it grows up.


----------



## Chipper

Why the 40 it's a chicks caliber, at least for the FBI. If you are going to carry a 40 why not a 10mm?? Same size gun with the same round count, in a Glock. So to hijack the thread the question should be 45ACP vs 10mm, IMO. Comparing the 1911 platform to others isn't realistic as you can get most any caliber in whatever design "you" want.


----------



## Denton

Chipper said:


> Why the 40 it's a chicks caliber, at least for the FBI. If you are going to carry a 40 why not a 10mm?? Same size gun with the same round count, in a Glock. So to hijack the thread the question should be 45ACP vs 10mm, IMO. Comparing the 1911 platform to others isn't realistic as you can get most any pistol in whatever caliber or design you want.


I asked why not the 10mm, but got no reply.

I think I scared him away.

:-x

I can tell you why I am not going to use the 10mm. I don't need my wrists to ache any more than they already do. :armata_PDT_23:


----------



## ARDon

Its years of service has proven its self


----------



## ARDon

sorry for the double post


----------



## Prepared One

Joking aside. I think one should carry what one is most comfortable with. If your life is on the line you want to be comfortable and confident in your abilities with your weapon. Place your shots well and it won't matter how big a hole you make. That said, I do like the 45 acp. I love my 1911. However, it is a bit cumbersome to conceal so I carry my M&P Shield 9mm as a conceal. Easy to conceal and carry, good second shot target recovery, and has been reliable so far. Alas, guns are like women, lot's to choose from and hard to stay with just one. LOL


----------



## PrepperLite

At risk of feeding the troll..... Just buy a 40 S&W 1911? It meets your 1911 want and 40 cal preference...... Buuuut.. you wont have all 15 rounds to spray and pray with....


----------



## dsdmmat

Ehhh, I have 1911s in 45, 40 and 38 super they all shoot very well but the one I carry on a daily basis is a 3 inch 45. I carry two spare mags so I have 22 rounds available should I find myself in a position to need it. As a private citizen you are responsible for every bullet that leaves your barrel so capacity is less important than accuracy. When in Afghanistan I have to carry a 9mm so I carry 105 rounds if I could carry a 45 I would. 

I also have revolvers in 357 mag, 10mm and 41 mag, I have found that the ladies like to shoot the 10mm revolver loaded with the 40 S&W and prefer to shoot the 1911 in 38 super or 45 ACP. The 40 is a bit snappy in an auto loader and is not pleasant to shoot in barrels shorter than 5 inches. I got rid of my Springfield XD 40 subcompact because it didn't fit my hand properly and that made it really unpleasant to shoot. 

The way I view handguns is: the handgun is a tool that allows you to fight to a real gun, a rifle. The only handgun I will not have in my house is a glock. my 2nd ex wife had one in 40 and when I got rid of her I got rid of it.


----------



## Denton

PrepperLite said:


> At risk of feeding the troll..... Just buy a 40 S&W 1911? It meets your 1911 want and 40 cal preference...... Buuuut.. you wont have all 15 rounds to spray and pray with....


Alter isn't a troll, he is just stirring the pot among friends. Who hasn't done that from time to time?


----------



## dsdmmat

PrepperLite said:


> At risk of feeding the troll..... Just buy a 40 S&W 1911? It meets your 1911 want and 40 cal preference...... Buuuut.. you wont have all 15 rounds to spray and pray with....


The para has a 16 round mag for the 40 if one needs to carry a lot of rounds to do mag dumps with.


----------



## Camel923

I agree with 1skrewloose. Shot placement is number one. If you can not put the round on the target bulls eye the rest is pretty much esoteric anyway. I do not own a forty because years ago I decided to standardize on o few calibers: 9, 357 mag,, 45 for my full frame auto pistols and revolvers. Unfortunately they were all lost in a boating accident on Lake Erie.


----------



## Hemi45

The 1911/.45 ACP saved the free world and is akin to running and doing push-up's. The .40S&W is trendy and akin to Spinning and Bowflex.

Enjoy your .40, your manscaping, and your latte on a Sunday morning


----------



## Smitty901

That is it, this out dated low round count boat anchor has to go. Only 14+1 rounds and 230 gr bullets just not up to the task anymore . Think I will replace it with a 25 round .22. Now that is fire power


----------



## Slippy

Diversify Son, Diversify!

.44 magnum


----------



## Smitty901

The real 45


----------



## Notsoyoung

So how many companies now produce a model 1911 in .45 ACP? Allot! The biggest reason that the U.S. military discontinuing the 1911 was not because of outdated design as some claim, nor was it because of capacity issues that seems to be the biggest problem that others have with it. It was discontinued in order to appease European allies in NATO who used 9mm handguns, and because there were complaints that it was too hard to handle for females and men with smaller hands. When it was discovered on numerous occasions that the 9mm round that is used by many police departments is lacking in stopping power, the .40 caliber round started to become more popular. It's a round that has more power then the 9mm, but is still easier for dainty hands to handle then the .45 ACP. The 1911 in .45 ACP is still in use by many special operations units and a very large purchase of them was made by the U.S. Marines a year or two ago.

The claim that because of the 1911's "low" capacity, it's users must only be planning on defending themselves from 1 or 2 people, I prefer to think that they are planning on hitting what they are shooting at, and just how often do you think you will be engaging more then 7 people, and if you are, carry an extra magazine. During WW1, using a 1911 and FMJ ball ammo, Alvin York spotting 6 German soldiers coming towards him, he fired 6 shots, and killed all 6 of the enemy. Personally I tend to lean towards hitting what you are shooting at more then shooting allot of rounds and hoping one of them will hit what you are shooting at. 

I own and often carry a 9mm, .40 cal, or a .45 ACP pistol. It depends on the situation, locations, and my activity, BUT, the pistol I have in my nightstand next to where I sleep is a 1911 in .45 ACP.


----------



## SDF880

I purchased my first 1911 back in Jan and it was a BAD move as I haven't slept since! I found the 1911 nothing short of amazing and
takedown is not rebuilding an atomic reactor as some friends told me it was! I liked my 1911 so much I purchased a second one a few weeks ago
and now I'm hosed for sure! I hope I get some sleep by late spring but for now I hope this 1911 high doesn't wear off!


----------



## Prepared One

I own and often carry a 9mm, .40 cal, or a .45 ACP pistol. It depends on the situation, locations, and my activity, BUT, the pistol I have in my nightstand next to where I sleep is a 1911 in .45 ACP.

Same here. Loaded, chambered and in my nightstand.


----------



## dwight55

When the .40 has turned 100 years old, . . . has an infinite number of copycats, . . . and can boast of having held up to the rigors of similar situations as Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Normandy, Hue, Phu Bai, Chosin, Meuse-Argonne, . . . bring your plastic fantastic back and show it off.

Until then, . . . it's a wannabe, . . . wishitwas, . . . little powder puff round that will eventually go the way of the .45GAP, . . . the blunderbuss, . . . and sipping your coffee from your saucer.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Ripon

It's funny that I grew up in awe of my dads WWII 1911 and the presidential citation he earned with it. He shot it around me a few times, and when I entered LE it was SA so it wasn't permitted and I never thought about getting one. I started with a Model 27 revolver, moved "up" to a Sig 9mm and carried it my entire career in service. After that life I bought hand guns for practicing, carrying CCW, and for a variety of purposes. It wasn't until 20 years later someone encouraged me to shoot dads 1911 and I was amazed. It was an ideal fit for me....all that time, all those "other" guns and it was the 1911 that always fit best. 

When I hit some financial difficulties a few years back i unloaded the 45 1911's and stuck with the 9mms. That is still my primary today, but I have gotten a 45 back on board.


----------



## sargedog

Smitty901 said:


> How many here are old enough to remember the 40 was to replace the 9mm . The 9mm would be no more , the 40 would wipe it off the face of the earth. At first it seemed like it could happen. Then it fell flat on it's face. Nothing wrong with the 40 it did not slide down hill as bad as some like the Sig 357 but just faded out.
> The 10mm was also some what of the same deal.
> The 1911 .45 still swinging after all these years


Thanks for making a fellar feel old this morning, I also remember it was suppose to be a all around perfect round. Better than 9mm and more rounds than a .45 with equal power. All I know is a 9mm can expand, but a .45 will never shrink. lol I too needed a good laugh this morning, y'all are the best.


----------



## Tennessee

Bigger is not always better if you can't hit the bulls eye.


----------



## Smitty901

Tennessee said:


> Bigger is not always better if you can't hit the bulls eye.


 True but if it is big enough it might scared them half to death if you miss. Yes hitting the target is number one .


----------



## reartinetiller

Heck I got them both and they work for me. Roy


----------



## TacticalCanuck

The title of this post made me LOL because I knew it would make me grin reading what this crew would say


----------



## bigwheel

Denton said:


> I asked why not the 10mm, but got no reply.
> 
> I think I scared him away.
> 
> :-x
> I can tell you why I am not going to use the 10mm. I don't need my wrists to ache any more than they already do. :armata_PDT_23:


Seem to recall in the old workaday world..the training Sgt. said when the 10mms first came out they were loaded up too hot and tore up the guns. Course the guy lied a lot so I would'nt take that to the bank. Found an article on them and the guy acts like the ammo is hard to find. 
Glock 20 Gen 4 Review - Guns & Ammo


----------



## jimb1972

The 1911 was the best firearm design around, until the CZ 75 came out that is. I still have a couple, but my CZ clone from Tanfoglio in .45acp is a better gun.


----------



## Denton

jimb1972 said:


> The 1911 was the best firearm design around, until the CZ 75 came out that is. I still have a couple, but my CZ clone from Tanfoglio in .45acp is a better gun.


Quick. Someone get a length of rope.


----------



## AquaHull

Denton said:


> Quick. Someone get a length of rope.


Both the CZ and the 1911 need a gunsmith to work on. The 1911 needs a gunsmith on standby. The CZ will rarely ever need a 'smith unless you mess with the FCG.

Just The Facts


----------



## tango

The 1911 needs a gunsmith on standby?
What junk 1911 are you buying?


----------



## AquaHull

tango said:


> The 1911 needs a gunsmith on standby?
> What junk 1911 are you buying?


Stand up and face the facts
What can you do to tweak an 1911


----------



## Maine-Marine

I do not own a 1911 or a 40... I own a .22 and a 380

inferior is a interesting word

what is inferior to one person may be a master piece in the hands of another.

we are looking at tools which require the intervention of a human being...


----------



## AquaHull

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not own a 1911 or a 40... I own a .22 and a 380
> 
> inferior is a interesting word
> 
> what is inferior to one person may be a master piece in the hands of another.
> 
> we are looking at tools which require the intervention of a human being...


Some just need a little more intervention. Never said the 191 was inferior, it's just you need a gunsmith to work on them. My G-Lock needs no such attention. Facts are facts.
BTW I would work on my own 1911,if I had one.

Prove me wrong
Not MM BTW


----------



## tango

Stand up and face the facts--- what do you need to do to a 1911?


----------



## SDF880

Shoot it!


----------



## Maine-Marine

AquaHull said:


> Never said the 1911 was inferior, it's just you need a gunsmith to work on them.


the title of the thread... look at the title of the thread...

>>>>>Thread: the 1911 45 acp is an inferior pistol<<<<<


----------



## AquaHull

tango said:


> Stand up and face the facts--- what do you need to do to a 1911?


That's not going to work, either will the 1911.

Henry Ford built his first car in 1908. Only an idiot would say cars from that era were more dependable

A simple comparison between Fords and Brownings creations will show who the I word belonds to.


----------



## AquaHull

Maine-Marine said:


> the title of the thread... look at the title of the thread...
> 
> >>>>>Thread: the 1911 45 acp is an inferior pistol<<<<<


I never said it was. Thread title notwithstanding.
Isiah said the wise man would be taken from US


----------



## Denton

AquaHull said:


> Both the CZ and the 1911 need a gunsmith to work on. The 1911 needs a gunsmith on standby. The CZ will rarely ever need a 'smith unless you mess with the FCG.
> 
> Just The Facts


What else do you fabricate - beside facts? layful:


----------



## Denton

AquaHull said:


> Some just need a little more intervention. Never said the 191 was inferior, it's just you need a gunsmith to work on them. My G-Lock needs no such attention. Facts are facts.
> BTW I would work on my own 1911,if I had one.
> 
> Prove me wrong
> Not MM BTW


You need a gunsmith to do what on the 1911 that you wouldn't need one for a Glock?

What us one called who works with plastic, by the way?


----------



## Denton

AquaHull said:


> Some just need a little more intervention. Never said the 191 was inferior, it's just you need a gunsmith to work on them. My G-Lock needs no such attention. Facts are facts.
> BTW I would work on my own 1911,if I had one.
> 
> Prove me wrong
> Not MM BTW


You made the assertion, you are the one in need of proving it. See, that's how it works.


----------



## Denton

How do you tweak your Glock? Heat it up and mold it to your grip? :-x


----------



## 8301

The 1911 .45 ACP is more fun to shoot in my opinion and since most of us grew up with one most of us prefer it over the more modern design of a typical .40 striker type pistol.

While I prefer the .45 for fun the .40 holds more rounds and hits just as hard not to mention a little longer effective range. In addition the .40 striker type pistol is generally an easier pistol to train an unexperienced shooter in.

That's why I play with a 1911 .45 but keep a .40 for security.


----------



## whoppo

This is great!... gotta run and get more popcorn.... carry on!


----------



## Kauboy

This thread has been Kauboy approved.


----------



## AquaHull

Denton said:


> You made the assertion, you are the one in need of proving it. See, that's how it works.


Now,In the OP was an assertion,that you fanboys must defend 
I don't need to worry about a 10 degree angel on me G-Lock Fotay.


----------



## AquaHull

Pis poor weld jobs on the bushing


----------



## AquaHull

Having to fit a slide release on a 1911,G-Lock just slides right in


----------



## AquaHull

I can just stipple the grips on Tupperware. You 1911 fanboys spend a weeks wages on Ivory Grips


----------



## AquaHull

I live in the woods, I can smack the ole G-Lock around and abuse it at home,it never see's the light of day. I don't need some 5K work of art that demands attention like a street whore.


----------



## AquaHull

I like my guns black,like my G-Lock,Coffee and my wimmen.


----------



## AquaHull

Then we have popularity




And where is the 1911, Opps sorry this is a 2015 vid


----------



## AquaHull

Then you can do this, or just run a GLock



I like to run things wet and my fingers to slide on down


----------



## AquaHull

This will help you solve MOST of the problems, with a drop down menu.
Over 50 problems and the fixes.


----------



## Arklatex

.....


----------



## Arklatex

Glock vs 1911:


----------



## Arklatex




----------



## Hemi45

Glock Lobster


----------



## SDF880

Would not surprise me at all 40 years from now it will still be Glock vs 1911

People will say how the Glock 221SF is so much better than a re- re-release of the Colt O1991 1911

I have them both, I like them both! I'm new to the 1911 platform and I am a better shot with it but my Glocks hold more, call it even!


----------



## rice paddy daddy

SDF880 said:


> Would not surprise me at all 40 years from now it will still be Glock vs 1911
> 
> People will say how the Glock 221SF is so much better than a re- re-release of the Colt O1991 1911
> 
> I have them both, I like them both! I'm new to the 1911 platform and I am a better shot with it but my Glocks hold more, call it even!


At this point in time there are already 100 year old Colt 1911's that shoot just fine.
Will a Glock last 100 years? I don't know. Probably not, because it is not wood and steel - two materials that will withstand time.
I do have a Colt Model 1903 made in 1918 that is as smooth shooting as the day it was made, and a 1921 Colt Police Positive Special that goes bang when it's supposed to.
Forged steel beats plastic every time.

But the bottom line is this - it is your money, buy what you want, buy what makes you happy. My opinion really does not matter.


----------



## Boss Dog

The only plastic that should come near your gun is a credit card. Grant Cunningham (I think)


----------



## stillacitizen2

alterego said:


> I woke on the wrong side of the bed this morning and want to sling shit at you namby pambies who carry 1911s with 7 rounds in your magazine. I figure it's because your not willing to stop more than two assailants.


Seven round magazine equals two assailant's? Are you kidding? That only means I have 5 rounds left.


----------



## keith9365

I will add my 2 cents worth. I own a custom made flintlock pennsylvania long rifle. It is a beautiful piece of iron and wood, with a graceful 44" .50 caliber swamped octagon barrel. Once I learned the correct load of powder and patched ball I can shoot it as well as any iron sighted modern rifle. It was the pinnacle of accurate firearms in its day. A continental rifleman named Timothy Murphy shot general Simon Fraser at over 300 yards with a rifle like mine in 1777 at the battle of Saratoga. But....if I were to find myself in combat today, I would want a modern weapon with a higher capacity. The 1911 is a solid, proven weapon of history. Me, I would rather have a Glock 9mm with high capacity magazines.


----------



## Doc Holliday

I shoot a 1911 because I dont shoot pansy ass little bullets


----------



## Oddcaliber

The 45 makes a bigger hole!


----------



## Ralph Rotten

alterego said:


> I have been considering purchasing a 45 acp 1911. But I already have an S&W M&p in 40 cal with 15 plus one and realized by considering load and energy charts that a 1911 would be inferior to what I already have. And figured it would only be good for nostalgic purposes.
> 
> .40 S&W
> 
> User Rating (209):3.55/512345
> 
> .45 ACP
> 
> User Rating (137):3.61/512345
> 
> Bullet diameter0.4 in (10.2 mm).452 in (11.5 mm)Neck diameter.423 in (10.7 mm).473 in (12.0 mm)Base diameter.424 in (10.8 mm).476 in (12.1 mm)Case typeRimless, straightRimless, straightRim diameter.424 in (10.8 mm).480 in (12.2 mm)Case length.850 in (21.6 mm).898 in (22.8 mm)Place of originUnited StatesUnited StatesOverall length1.135 in (28.8 mm)1.275 in (32.4 mm)Velocity900-1449 FPS700 - 1150 FPSDesignerSmith & WessonJohn BrowningCostMore expensive than 9mm, cheaper than .45More expensive than .40 S&W and 9mmDesignedJanuary 17, 19901904Penetration9.8-25.0"11.3-27"VariantsNone.45 ACP +P, .45 SuperMaximum pressure35,000 psi (240 MPa)21,000 psi (140 MPa)Used byUnited States and othersUnited States and othersExpansion0.40 - 0.76"0.45-0.79"Case capacity19.3 gr H2O (1.255 cm³)25 gr H2O (1.625 cm³)Primer typeSmall Pistolprimarily large pistol (but also small pistol in some brass)Felt Recoil"sharp and snappy" and slower to get back on target for follow up shots.Heavier and pushes one's hands backwards instead of up. Does not have much muzzle flip.Rifling twist1 in 16 in. (406 mm)1 in 16 in (406 mm)
> 
> I figure I will be banned for dropping this thread on a Sunday morning in the face of the faithful.


Actually, according to Sanow & Marshall's outstanding series of books: Handgun Stopping Power, we know with some certaintity that the 40 caliber will achieve a 96% one shot stop (torso hits only), whereas the best 45acp only has a street record of 94%.

However, there is more to the story than just percentages. The 40 cal gets those numbers from one brand: Corbon 135gr +p+ loads, which are very snappy, and will cause unforseen limp-wristing issues the smaller the gun gets. Also, it is a round that is entirely dependant on velocity to achieve these outstanding numbers...so a short barrel will not get you those advertised results.

But the 45 ACP performs best (confirmed by the FBI tests as well) when using 230gr Hydrashoks, which are far less dependant on velocity. They work all the way down to 800fps or so. But you still get the limp-wristing issues if you try to shoot them from a micro gun like the Detonics.

But don't take my word for it. Read the books (despite Doctor Fackler's propoganda on the subject.) Although they are not the most scientific study ever done, the literature is absolutely fascinating, cover to cover. They also detail a number of other tests conducted by dozens of agencies including the legendary Strausberg Goat tests.

PS: The classic 357 magnum also achieves 96% one shot stops using pretty much any 124gr full pressure load. Really, that's the gun to consider. Autos are okay for defense, but I can deer hunt with my original 3-screw Blackhawk.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Stay Alive. Use A Forty Five.


----------



## Denton

AquaHull said:


> Then you can do this, or just run a GLock
> 
> 
> 
> I like to run things wet and my fingers to slide on down


Yup, that is what real men do when they own real steel.


----------



## bigwheel

I have an old acquaintance who was pretty early in getting to Indo China..early 60's I think. He was some kinda special forces guy who was tasked with doing ambushes along the Ho Chi Minh trail Laos. He say .45 ACP was not worth a caca in making the gooks cease and desist. He got his folks to send him a .357 mag wheel gun and his pal got a .44 mag. He said those would gut the bad guys on the spot. Guessing they were shooting the crappy old military rounds out of the .45's.


----------



## Denton

Stopped by my chiropractor's office, last week, to pick up some herbal teas and vitamins. As I was headed to the store in the back, my chiropractor told me a friend stopped by to let the Doc shoot his Glock. Doc broke it before emptying the first magazine. I told him it's no big deal; the guy will simply melt down a couple two liter Coke bottles and patch it up.


----------



## just mike

View attachment 10203


----------



## Ralph Rotten

bigwheel said:


> I have an old acquaintance who was pretty early in getting to Indo China..early 60's I think. He was some kinda special forces guy who was tasked with doing ambushes along the Ho Chi Minh trail Laos. He say .45 ACP was not worth a caca in making the gooks cease and desist. He got his folks to send him a .357 mag wheel gun and his pal got a .44 mag. He said those would gut the bad guys on the spot. Guessing they were shooting the crappy old military rounds out of the .45's.


Dad shot a nip square in the chest with ball ammo in a 45acp back in Korea, No more commie.
But the Mi carbine...now that was a POS caliber.


----------



## Denton

Ralph Rotten said:


> Dad shot a nip square in the chest with ball ammo in a 45acp back in Korea, No more commie.
> But the Mi carbine...now that was a POS caliber.


Uh, why did your father shoot a Japanese while in Korea? Very odd.


----------



## bigwheel

Ralph Rotten said:


> Dad shot a nip square in the chest with ball ammo in a 45acp back in Korea, No more commie.
> But the Mi carbine...now that was a POS caliber.


Got a now deceased Uncle who told a similar story who was involved in some heavy fighting in the South Pacific back during the Big War. Supposedly a jap was rushing their fox hole. He emptied a full magazine of .30 cal into the offender with not much effect. Picked up the .45 and managed to tump him over just before the bad guy jumped in the hole with them.


----------



## Doc Holliday

For you guys that love the 40 glock.... We'll talk when your glock has won 2 world wars


----------



## eferred

I have trained with the 1911 for most of my life. It's ok as a trainer gun, and the lw officer's model is a good CCW gun, but only for the highly trained shottist. Others are going to screw up something about that cocked and locked carry mode. Because I have over 200k rds fired thru an SA autoloader, I jumped at the chance to have the Sig P938, but nearly everyone is better off with a Kahr CM9. No rifle ever won a war, much less any pistol and if it were not for the 2 Ww's, 1911 production, in 100 years, would be half as many guns as Glock has made in 30 years.  I'm not a Glock fan, quite the opposite, but those are the facts.


----------



## eferred

The only reason that the 185 gr jhp exists is that guys shot critters and found out that the 230 gr jhp's dont expand in flesh. the 165 gr jhp's exist because 185 gr jhps don't expand from 3.5" barrels, unless they are plus p, and if they are, the recoil is such as to really slow down the repeat hit speed, especially with alloy frames. The only jhp .45 that I'd bother with is the Corbon 165 gr plus p. It's going fast enough to actually work and the recoil is such that it can be controled adequately in a gun that's compact and lw enough for constant carry.


----------



## Kauboy

Hemi45 said:


> Glock Lobster


This post did not get the credit it deserved.
Page 9, go pay your proper respects!


----------



## TJC357

Hasn't failed me yet, I didn't know there were any other type of guns, go figure you learn something new everyday but not today.:spank:


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> This post did not get the credit it deserved.
> Page 9, go pay your proper respects!


Bump.

I haven't noticed any more likes. What's the matter with people, nowadays?


----------



## Stick

Earlier in the thread there were several mentions of the .40 ACP. Now, every once in awhile a new round gets past me (.327 Federal had been out a couple years before I heard of it, f'instance). Nonetheless, I don't believe there is such a thing as a .40 ACP, which makes anything anyone says about this a moot point with little to no credibility, if the cartridge designation is erroneous. Beyond that my opinion is worth about the same as anyone else's. I carried and competed with a Glock 21 and did well with it. Won a lot more matches with a 1911 (no need for fancy grips and checkering...skate board tape is a wonderful thing). My daily carry gun? A Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R magnum, 125gr lead SWC at about 1100fps. Works great for me. So there ya go.


----------



## Arklatex

^^^ tried to tell you, you know who you are. LOL!^^^


----------



## Notsoyoung

How many manufacturers make a 1911 with many parts that are interchangeable with 1911s manufactured by other companies? How many do the same for Glocks? I am not attacking Glocks, if you have one and are happy with it, more power to you. But to say that the 1911 is obsolete or is a "bad" firearm is idiotic.


----------



## Kauboy

Notsoyoung said:


> How many manufacturers make a 1911 with many parts that are interchangeable with 1911s manufactured by other companies? How many do the same for Glocks? I am not attacking Glocks, if you have one and are happy with it, more power to you. But to say that the 1911 is obsolete or is a "bad" firearm is idiotic.


Actually, when it comes to interchangeability, you DON'T want to do this to a 1911.
That model was designed to be hand assembled and fitted. Taking various parts from various companies and putting them together can lead to catastrophe.
A 1911 should not have to suffer the wear and tear of "plug and play", as stacking tolerances will become a true burden on the functionality of the gun.
If you must get a part for your 1911, it is best to go with the same company that made the gun, or have a gunsmith do the work of fitting.
I'm not claiming that you can't do it. I know many have. I am making a general statement based on how the gun was designed. Too many parts too far out of tolerance is bad for that model.

People forget that, while the 1911 was the brain child of a genius, that genius was also a craftsman. He didn't slap parts together and call it good. He crafted a work of art that could fire a bullet.

As for Glocks, they are literally designed to be thrown together from parts, and work. Tolerances are low, the gun is loose, and that's why it tends to keep working regardless of conditions. Like the AK-47, this generally leads to a less consistently accurate gun, but a gun that doesn't quit.
I can take any combination of parts from two of the same Glock models(and even some different ones), and reassemble a new gun from them, and it will work. The same cannot be said for all 1911s.
And there are many aftermarket parts for Glocks, by the way.


----------

