# Ex-Patrioting



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Seems there are a lot of people who are figuring out the the Land of the Free has been hijacked by regulations and power-hungry lunatics.

Has anyone here thought of pulling chalks for greener pastures, elsewhere?

I was thinking about Uruguay, but I think they might be too crazy about soccer.

Relocating to Uruguay? | The Modern Survivalist


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## tks (Oct 22, 2014)

Nope, not a shot in hell that I'm going anywhere. Ill stay and fight for my country before I'd abandon what my ancestors spelt blood for. Besides, what may look greener now may turn burnt brown tomorrow.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I mentioned it before but I want to buy a ticket to Hawaii. The ticket prices are dropping fast. Must be because of the lava. My family has an about 40 acre farm in kohala. Macadamia nuts. If you go down to the beach on a clear day you may see maui in the distance. Lots of family.

Prices are down to about $430 from the east coast. But id like to ship my truck out there. There's a guy who owns an ice cream stand over here and spends winter over there because nobody buys ice cream in winter. He had a car shipped over here from there. He also knew some people who do helicopter tours.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Uhh... tks, when did you plan to start the next revolution? I just want to make sure I can get set up for shtf in time.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

The summer of my tenth year, after reading Hemingway's The Old Man and The Sea, I decided that living in Cuba and being a baseball player who was also a fisherman, on his days off of course, would be the coolest thing ever. I figured I was a long shot for the Bigs here in the US but (not knowing the skil level of the Cubans) I figured that a pretty good 10 year old US Little League-er had a damn good shot at being a Professional Ball Player in Cuba. Didn't happen, Mom and Dad said I had to start 6th grade in September so it was time to buckle down and stop dreaming.

Anyway, that was the closest I came to wanting to leave this Great Republic.

I did live for a short while in both St. Louis and Cleveland, does that count?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

St. Louis yes, Cleveland maybe.


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## tks (Oct 22, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> Uhh... tks, when did you plan to start the next revolution? I just want to make sure I can get set up for shtf in time.


Tuesday sounds like a good day, nobody likes Tuesday anyways so what the heck.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

thepeartree said:


> St. Louis yes, Cleveland maybe.


At least the year that I lived in St Louis, the Cards went to the World Series. I forgot where the Indians ended up when I lived there, but I remember they sucked. Plus I blocked the whole experience out of my mind.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

tks said:


> Nope, not a shot in hell that I'm going anywhere. Ill stay and fight for my country before I'd abandon what my ancestors spelt blood for. Besides, what may look greener now may turn burnt brown tomorrow.


There is no doubt that the greener pastures can be burned brown. We see it in our own pasture. What was, no longer is.

Still, the numbers of Americans who are leaving have reached record levels. Where are they going, and why?

As far as fighting for that which our forefathers fought for, I really don't see any armies of any size standing up for the vision of our founders. On the other hand, I see the noose of regulations created by agencies taking the spotlight, shoving the rule of law into the shadows.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

tks said:


> Tuesday sounds like a good day, nobody likes Tuesday anyways so what the heck.


Sorry, but I need at least 2 weeks notice on chaos. For minor insurrections I can cut it down to 1, but that's as far as I can go. After all, I have to find another 1000 rounds of 22LR and you know how tough that can be!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

You guys are no fun, let me just say that. 

OK, were you to try and live in another country, what would be your decision making parameters and which country would be your choice.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Not only is the noose of regulation tightening faster around the once strong neck of capitalism... the heavy foot of an over zealous and evil government is pressing harder on the gas pedal of a highly explosive tanker headed straight for a forest fire.


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

Gun laws, government police corruption, cost of living, utility and healthcare infrastructure. I was all serious about Nicaragua and Uruguay but alas, the funds do not permit. I'm told if you deliver a child in Costa Rica you get residency but I'm pretty sure I can't pull it together that fast.

Also, if you are bringing stuff, many of the south american countries have resource limits on what you can import tax free.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

I moved to Canada from Russia/Ukraine, does that count?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

TorontoGal said:


> I moved to Canada from Russia/Ukraine, does that count?


Sure. Why did you chose Canada?


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

I have thought seriously about Texas. That IS a different country!!

AJ


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

tks said:


> Nope, not a shot in hell that I'm going anywhere. Ill stay and fight for my country before I'd abandon what my ancestors spelt blood for. Besides, what may look greener now may turn burnt brown tomorrow.


I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you, but this isn't the country our forefathers spilled blood for anymore. It's a twisted characture of that proud country.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

What would be my choice? I would go someplace where there is minimal gubmint, lots of open space, few gun laws, and low taxes. That's right, folks, I'm headed for the Moon!

Of course if I were stuck here, I might well pick any of several places: the Cayman Islands, Jamaica, or New Zealand, though I hear the taxes are bad there. It's such a pretty place I could consider it.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

New Zealand would be nice. Somewhere in the mountains.....


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Exactly! Mountains, on the south island...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Earthquakes, cost of living...

Not for me.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Yes, there are quakes in certain areas. There are quakes in every US state. Cost of living... not bad, compared to here. Or so says my friend.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Denton said:


> Sure. Why did you chose Canada?


*Canada is never at war except for some peace-keeping and occasional assistance to U.S.
*Less crime
*Great healthcare (personal experience)
*Less corruption
*Strong economy
*Great career opportunities and wages
*More accredited universities
*Awesome tax breaks for families with kids
Too many things to mention


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

TorontoGal said:


> *Canada is never at war except for some peace-keeping and occasional assistance to U.S.
> *Less crime
> *Great healthcare (personal experience)
> *Less corruption
> ...


Those are good reasons.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

TorontoGal said:


> *Canada is never at war except for some peace-keeping and occasional assistance to U.S.
> *Less crime
> *Great healthcare (personal experience)
> *Less corruption
> ...


Umm... climate? Job opportunities? Cost of living? Less crime...really? They hire crack-heads as mayors of major cities!


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

TorontoGal said:


> *Canada is never at war except for some peace-keeping and occasional assistance to U.S.
> *Less crime
> *Great healthcare (personal experience)
> *Less corruption
> ...


My mother lives in Canada. She's been married to a Canadian for 25 years now. I went and stayed with them for a couple years in high school. Mind you this has been a few years ago but my impression of Canada at the time was COLD and not very hospitable towards Americans. I remember my first day of high school and having a note taped to my locker that said "Damn yankee go home". Of course once they got to know me and my charming personality all was good but still... talk about feeling out of place.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

thepeartree said:


> Umm... climate? Job opportunities? Cost of living? Less crime...really? They hire crack-heads as mayors of major cities!


Must I remind you of Marion Barry? :lol:


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> Umm... climate? Job opportunities? Cost of living? Less crime...really? They hire crack-heads as mayors of major cities!


I love the climate, lots of job opportunities, cost of living reflects wages, a lot less crime and we just had an election, the crackhead is gone.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Kahlan said:


> My mother lives in Canada. She's been married to a Canadian for 25 years now. I went and stayed with them for a couple years in high school. Mind you this has been a few years ago but my impression of Canada at the time was COLD and not very hospitable towards Americans. I remember my first day of high school and having a note taped to my locker that said "Damn yankee go home". Of course once they got to know me and my charming personality all was good but still... talk about feeling out of place.


Not my experience at all


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## tks (Oct 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> There is no doubt that the greener pastures can be burned brown. We see it in our own pasture. What was, no longer is.
> 
> Still, the numbers of Americans who are leaving have reached record levels. Where are they going, and why?
> 
> As far as fighting for that which our forefathers fought for, I really don't see any armies of any size standing up for the vision of our founders. On the other hand, I see the noose of regulations created by agencies taking the spotlight, shoving the rule of law into the shadows.


 Where are these people going? Europe,Scandinavia, China? Even with our over reaching government, we are still one of the most free nations in the world. Since the 80s, it has been popular within the retiring age group to look for low tax places or zero tax places to spend their retirement.Since the babyboomers are retiring, it isn't shocking to see spikes in the numbers. Also, liberal ideologues love Europe. It wouldn't surprise me to see that many of those expats are "escaping" to a more socialistic country. I see these types everyday on my left coasts majority member sites. It's shocking how these people think. I'd gladly hand every one of them a plane ticket to Europe if they think it's so great.

I do fight the good fight, everyday. It may not be with a militaristic uprising, but I've been in the freedom fight for better than 20 years. I don't rule out an uprising could happen, I'm not against it, and it wouldn't surprise me if we didn't see one in our lifetime. For right now, it may be small battles, but I know that other are out there fighting too. There are good people working in our government, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Trey Goudy to name a few, who are doing good work and if support for these guys can be rallied from the populace, than we have a winning crew there.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Thought about Belize because of the excellent fishing and diving and that they do not have an extradition agreement with the U.S., but the no-seeum flies would drive me nuts.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

I dont like leaving the state. Cant stand all the foreigners in those other states, especially thems from the PRK. 
Leaving the country is not even an option.

Next time you get the itch, mebbe check and see if the country even has a bill of rights. Most dont. Thats how the Aussies lost their guns.


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## tks (Oct 22, 2014)

A J said:


> I have thought seriously about Texas. That IS a different country!!
> 
> AJ


It honestly wouldn't surprise me if, someday, Texas left the union. They are the only state that legally can.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

About gun laws in Uruguay...



> Gun Laws. While nothing like the ones in USA, they are better than in most other South American countries. You need a gun license to purchase guns up to 9mm, and a collectors one for larger calibers. Like in Argentina, detachable mag fed rifles and carbines in calibers other than 22LR are impossible to get. But its not hard to get a Glock 9mm, lever action rifles, pump shotguns and bolt action rifles. Not perfect but you can still be well armed for 90% of the self defense needs. A carry permit is a bit harder but available for the law abiding citizen.


Sounds a lot better than some states within the U.S.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

TorontoGal said:


> *Canada is never at war except for some peace-keeping and occasional assistance to U.S.
> *Less crime
> *Great healthcare (personal experience)
> *Less corruption
> ...


Overall Canada has some positives. My travel experiences to Canada have been very positive.

Only about 30 million people in a huge land mass, population of Canada is about 10% of US. Canada is a very wealthy nation with a strong economy and yes, no wars except assisting their number 1 ally US. In turn, the US protects Canada which may be the reason that no one attacks them.

The Tax breaks for kids may be high but so are overall taxes. Demographics are heavy European 75% and Asian about 14% then very few non whites. Canada has some real shitty gun laws yet their crime is still low. May be due to other reasons. (see above)

Yes, I like Canada and I like hockey. But still not enough to entice me to move.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

tks said:


> It honestly wouldn't surprise me if, someday, Texas left the union. They are the only state that legally can.


Any state has the natural right to secede, just as the colonies broke away from the Crown. However, there are steps that must be first taken, as the declaration of independence made clear was taken by our forefathers. Otherwise, all that is accomplished is what could better be called rebellion.

As far as Texas seceding, it would have to carve Austin out of its heart and hand it over to D.C.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm not telling anyone to move to Canada  Except for Denton haha


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

TorontoGal said:


> I'm not telling anyone to move to Canada  Except for Denton haha


The climate would certainly fit my liking, but isn't the water a little chilly for diving? Even for me?


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Denton said:


> The climate would certainly fit my liking, but isn't the water a little chilly for diving? Even for me?


Wimp!


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## Zed (Aug 14, 2014)

Kahlan said:


> My mother lives in Canada. She's been married to a Canadian for 25 years now. I went and stayed with them for a couple years in high school. Mind you this has been a few years ago but my impression of Canada at the time was COLD and not very hospitable towards Americans. I remember my first day of high school and having a note taped to my locker that said "Damn yankee go home". Of course once they got to know me and my charming personality all was good but still... talk about feeling out of place.


wait canada is different country? from USA? 99% Asians think they are same. :lol:


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## Zed (Aug 14, 2014)

well if anybody wants to experience hell before dying..welcome to India


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Zed said:


> wait canada is different country? from USA? 99% Asians think they are same. :lol:


Zed, 3 Indian neighbourhoods in my city area alone, a lot of amazing spicy food everywhere  Hard-working immigrants are happy here.


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

TG empty your mailbox


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Zed said:


> well if anybody wants to experience hell before dying..welcome to India


I plan to visit Punjab next year


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## tks (Oct 22, 2014)

We have a good friend who lives in Sweden. Sweden has moderate a tax rate, moderate cost of living, free good healthcare, good parent leave pay, tons of positives to it. If you ask him about how they have it so good with a moderate tax rate, his answer is, because of the US. See, Sweden doesn't have to do very much for the rest of the world, it has no standing army of significance, it doesn't have to have nuclear weapons, space exploration, nation building help, they don't have to defend other countries, etc....Why, because America does all these things. We make it possible for countries like Canada, Sweden, and much of the world to only concentrate on taking care of their own. It's the cost of being the greatest nation on earth. To whomever much is given, of him will much be required, and to whom much is entrusted, of him more will be asked.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Kahlan said:


> TG empty your mailbox


AGAIN?! lol


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

TorontoGal said:


> AGAIN?! lol


Well I'm pretty sure it wasn't _just_ me who filled it up.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Kahlan said:


> Well I'm pretty sure it wasn't _just_ me who filled it up.


Done! lol
Waiting for my mom to arrive to babysit, almost time to go to the party


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## Daddy O (Jan 20, 2014)

I have never dreamt of leaving the US, except maybe for Canada (sooooo beautiful up there.) 

However, I have always dreamt of owning an island and making my own damned country. To hell with those other places, Daddy O rules!


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I have been all over the world.....as for me....I'm Dorothy..."There's no place Like home...There's no place like home....There's no place like home."


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

My wife and I have discussed New Zealand and Switzerland. I do see ads for Belize. Hungry has a new and interesting constitution.


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## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

Denton said:


> Seems there are a lot of people who are figuring out the the Land of the Free has been hijacked by regulations and power-hungry lunatics.
> 
> Has anyone here thought of pulling chalks for greener pastures, elsewhere?
> 
> ...


I have fantisized about it. I would go to my fathers "homeland" of Switzerland. Got kinfolk there.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> My wife and I have discussed New Zealand and Switzerland. I do see ads for Belize. Hungry has a new and interesting constitution.


At your suggestion, I looked not only at Hungary's new constitution, but also the cost of living comparison. Here is the comparison:

Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Hungary


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

tks said:


> We have a good friend who lives in Sweden. Sweden has moderate a tax rate, moderate cost of living, free good healthcare, good parent leave pay, tons of positives to it. If you ask him about how they have it so good with a moderate tax rate, his answer is, because of the US. See, Sweden doesn't have to do very much for the rest of the world, it has no standing army of significance, it doesn't have to have nuclear weapons, space exploration, nation building help, they don't have to defend other countries, etc....Why, because America does all these things. We make it possible for countries like Canada, Sweden, and much of the world to only concentrate on taking care of their own. It's the cost of being the greatest nation on earth. To whomever much is given, of him will much be required, and to whom much is entrusted, of him more will be asked.


Sweden might be all those things you mention. But it is also full of... Sweeds!

Ten tousand Sveeds
Ran trough da veeds
Chased by von Norvegian

Ten tousand more
Ran to da shore
In da Battle of Copenhagen

Da dust from the veeds
Made snoose for the Sveeds
And dey called it Copenhagen


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

BagLady said:


> I have fantisized about it. I would go to my fathers "homeland" of Switzerland. Got kinfolk there.


Cost Of Living Comparison Between Switzerland And United States

Ouch!


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Yeah, it's not a nice picture.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

When I was healthy enough to scuba dive and such, the wife and I talked about Belize. But now... I guess I'll just have to stay in AZ and be ready to defend the US through my vote next week. After that...


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

When I worked up in Minnesota I encountered a few people trying to expatriate themselves to Canada because they didn't like Pres Bush. Most were dirty hippies and they were denied entry because they had no funds. As for Canada's healthcare, part of my job was paroling in Canadians for medical treatment they couldn't get in Canada. The parole was necessary because they were basically wards of the state. What I learned about Canada and Canadians working with them, I want nothing to do with Canada. 
If your 're look into renouncing your citizenship and moving to a foreign country you better be rich because most 1 world countries require you to bring a lot of money into the country or a very desirable skill. Australia, New Zealand, ect requires millions. Next choice is third world countries and you might as well paint a big target on your back. I have countless stories of people losing everything and escaping with just their lives. 
As for guns the only place I have found that has basically the same rights as us is Malta.


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## Zed (Aug 14, 2014)

Meangreen said:


> Next choice is third world countries and you might as well paint a big target on your back. I have countless stories of people losing everything and escaping with just their lives.


I would like to add few things.
If you ever come to India, be very careful. Ask your booked hotel for guide as well as travelling. The tourists are often looted in India. There have been incidents of Russian tourist females being raped. For me Faith(Patriotism) and Fact are two different things. I would recommend to stay away from street-walking or going somewhere dark alleys or at extreme nights etc. Indian beggars love to follow white folks (tourists) they follow you for atleast a km. //i See this everyday// Festivals like Holi and rangpanchmi...hordes of local drunk youth stop on highways and ask for donations!!//


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

If and when Texas succeeds, I'm sure that many a person will emigrate there.

So many, I'm sure, that the illegals will be pushed out.....or be shot.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Denton said:


> Thought about Belize because of the excellent fishing and diving and that they do not have an extradition agreement with the U.S., but the no-seeum flies would drive me nuts.


Those things are god aweful around charleston!!! I was stationed on the naval weapons station and clouds of them would swarm and eat you alive unless you were coated in skin so soft!


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## KarVer (Oct 30, 2014)

I spent 2 solid years in Germany. Almost a year in Kentucky. An 18 in Ohio. And about 10Years in Florida. Where else ive been is no concern. But I had one of those kings tax men by my place yesterday. (Property tax appraisal jerks) they creep around in there lil vehicle studying every house. I know my taxes are going up. It's like the 3rd one in as many months. And there all different. 
If money was no option I wouldn't mind getting around 350acres near my location. Or in north Fl close to the Georgia boarder wouldn't wanna miss the the insanity or the craziness of our economy crashing....


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## just mike (Jun 25, 2014)

I have traveled all over the United States, spent time in Europe both east and west, Caribbean, Mexico and I figure if it gets too screwed up in Florida I will just take my happy butt back to East Tennessee. Our place there is pretty remote and most of the traffic that we see is someone who has lost their way, or a local. Since we have had the place for 40+ years we are considered as locals who have lost their way and moved out but will be returning when we come to our senses.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I've chosen my "Alamo" and I hope to make my last stand here at Slippy Lodge. Like Davy Crockett, who wasn't from Texas, I'm not from here and as far as the locals go they see me as one of them. Turn right out of my driveway, and every mile gets you closer to my nearest hell. 

Turn left, and it takes you to the nearest town which is a stop light on a highway. A post office, auto repair, antique store, hamburger joint, hardware store and Dollar General and Gas Station that triples as a Liquor Store and Subway Sandwich shop. The ladies who work the checkout there seem to like me well enough. We talk about the weather and NASCAR and I say Yes Ma'am and No Thanks and they like my truck and Jeep so I guess I'm a local.

The Alamo-Davy Crockett rumors are many but popular belief is that Davy Crockett was found dead, surrounded by multiple dead soldiers from General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna's army. If I'm found dead surrounded by the dead sent by my personal Santa Anna, then I'll have died a happy man.


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## Dark Jester (Jun 8, 2014)

I'm not going to be like those hispanics that ran away from their countries instead of standing and fighting to change their country for the next generations. If they would, we would have less problems brought to our borders. Yes, they come for jobs. But if they would work to make their country stable, they would have a good reason to stay home. Their country won't improve if they cut and run. I will stay and do what I can to make changes for the better. It starts with changing the "Overlord" system in D.C.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

keith9365 said:


> Those things are god aweful around charleston!!! I was stationed on the naval weapons station and clouds of them would swarm and eat you alive unless you were coated in skin so soft!


Years ago, the stupid things ran me off a pier when I was fishing on a bayou near FT. Walton. Man-alive, they are ruthless!


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Not only thought about it, but made several research attempts to it.

Costa Rica, El Salvador, and the mix (I'm not welcome in Nicaraugua - there might still be a warrant ). They are nice, good health care, but the flock of Americans have driven costs higher.

Ireland I was serious about, but property costs are high too, taxes higher, and there are some other issues.

The things I found most troublesome.....guns. As bad as we think we have it it's worse most every where else, and immigrating to another country often means you are going to leave them here.



Denton said:


> Seems there are a lot of people who are figuring out the the Land of the Free has been hijacked by regulations and power-hungry lunatics.
> 
> Has anyone here thought of pulling chalks for greener pastures, elsewhere?
> 
> ...


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I like the commercials for relocating to Belize. The middle aged fat guy with the 20 something chica in the blue bikini. When I start drawing my pension in two years I was considering bailing out but I just have to see how things turn out.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Well, Belize and Costa Rica are both ok choices. The sad truth, I fear, is that we were all born too late to carve out a little piece of nowhere and disappear. It's still possible, but none of us is a multi-millionaire. It's still possible, even with all that against it, but the very nature of preppers means it won't happen. And if the climate really does change and things heat up, then none of our plans may survive. They say we could gain 400 feet of sea level. That would not be good. We can't even keep New Orleans above water. Take a look at something called the 'continental shelf'. It's got river canyons carved in it. And it's 400 feet down all over the world.

Well, anyway, it probably won't happen... right? 

But where to go? Alaska might be a choice, if you can put up with the many quakes that come with being on a plate edge and kind of cold in the winter. The real chance is an island. All we need is one that's big enough and has nice high shores. I think that preppers would have a shot at growing enough food. The initial investment would be steep. You'd need to bring along an assortment of heavy machinery, of course. I doubt if anyone wants to spend a year digging one foundation., even if we were all young and healthy. That's another issue: health care. That could be a tough one. Power, I think, would be easy enough. On an island you've got solar, wind power, and the chance of wave generators. Maybe even tide generators. Bury any power lines and you don't worry about falling trees. Don't have to worry much about heat , but a/c could well be considered an essential. Then set up a sattelite dish. I don't think we'd get cable out there! Throw in half a dozen boats for transport and fishing, bring in the farm animals, and you're ready to build.

Like I said, it will take more than a few bucks to create a haven anyplace worth going to. And we all know that as much as we talk, there is a measurable chance that things can get so bad around here that staying just isn't a sane choice.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Well if you can forgo the sandy beaches, and want to check out there are properties in NV still that are cheap. 40 acres, $7500, and no neighbors for a good distance. NV is a pretty easy going state for now. So long as you pay your fees of course.....guess what those other countries have them too. I pay $3370 a year in property taxes, $1800 a year for insurance, $41,000 a year for grazing rights and then I sell those for $82,000 a year....it pencils pretty good with no state income tax. Oh and my closest neighbor is 4.1 mils on foot though snake infested dessert or 21 mils by car.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Ripon said:


> Well if you can forgo the sandy beaches, and want to check out there are properties in NV still that are cheap. 40 acres, $7500, and no neighbors for a good distance. NV is a pretty easy going state for now. So long as you pay your fees of course.....guess what those other countries have them too. I pay $3370 a year in property taxes, $1800 a year for insurance, $41,000 a year for grazing rights and then I sell those for $82,000 a year....it pencils pretty good with no state income tax. Oh and my closest neighbor is 4.1 mils on foot though snake infested dessert or 21 mils by car.


Potential scarcity of water is a concern, as well as that it is still in the U.S. The U.S. is owned by the mega corporate world and is not going to allow the citizens to retake the country.

Pear Tree mentioned Costa Rico, and while it might be a beautiful and ex-pat friendly place, it is too closely connected to the U.S.

It would seem that, if one were wanting to get out of the way of the big feet, one would have to find a place not connected.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I keep hearing good things about Ecuador.


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## OC40 (Sep 16, 2014)

I've been to some real hell holes on this earth, here is what I can tell you...as much as we think it can be worse it already is somewhere else. 
We have first world problems, I'll take those any day compared to what I have seen.


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## Dalarast (May 16, 2014)

I have friends who escaped to Western Mexico and they love it. I also work with ex-pats on a daily down in Kenya and other parts of "nicer" Africa. As I mentioned in another post my family had land in Costa Rica and I absolutely love it down there. 

Of all the places I would want to "escape" to I would consider everything involved. Though Nairobi is amazing (especially the outskirts) I don't think longterm it would be safe for myself or my family. And that brings up the next part when considering an "escape"... my family. If I moved out now I would have to find some place with quality education. My friends in Mexico have a very nice private school for their kids; but still if something happened in the U.S. the affects would influence life in Mexico. 

Costa Rica... still will always be number one on my list. From every perceived shtf scenario for me it is probably the safest and highest quality of life for now and if something happened down the road. There are some amazing places in the forests and mountains around the world that offer a chance at renewable resources and basically living off the land. Costa Rica also has that factor... and did I mention surfing :-0 

European nations I think would be off my list first... if the recent history of economic collapse in certain nations and the general connection to Western powers and economies creates a symbiotic connection to the US and anytype of SHTF would influence them like I said about Mexico....

Costa Rica.. warm rum, nice beaches, and able to grow my own food


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Ripon said:


> Well if you can forgo the sandy beaches, and want to check out there are properties in NV still that are cheap. 40 acres, $7500, and no neighbors for a good distance. NV is a pretty easy going state for now. So long as you pay your fees of course.....guess what those other countries have them too. I pay $3370 a year in property taxes, $1800 a year for insurance, $41,000 a year for grazing rights and then I sell those for $82,000 a year....it pencils pretty good with no state income tax. Oh and my closest neighbor is 4.1 mils on foot though snake infested dessert or 21 mils by car.


Are those acres Guaranteed-not-to-glow-in-the-dark acres? More than half the state is owned by the governmet. Then there's trying to find land WITH water rights you own. Flash flooding, probably dust storms, and I think it gets rather hot come summer, right?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

> John Anderson, an American tourist from San Clemente, California, was driving down a poorly-maintained highway when he saw flashing lights in his rearview mirror.
> 
> After a brief exchange with the local police officer, Anderson was shocked when the cop started searching his vehicle.
> 
> ...


Before I add the link, guess what country.

Scenarios that must be considered before moving to a country.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> Before I add the link, guess what country.
> 
> Scenarios that must be considered before moving to a country.


The US of A?

Result of the Patriot Act I would surmise.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> The US of A?
> 
> Result of the Patriot Act I would surmise.


You are correct.

It is the result of the war on drugs, actually. Has been going on for a while.

First reports I read of it were in Georgia and Louisiana.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-01/warning-avoid-corrupt-third-world-country-all-costs


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> You are correct.
> 
> It is the result of the war on drugs, actually. Has been going on for a while.
> 
> ...


(Slippy runs out to truck and removes the $25k that he usually carries with him in the console...)


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> (Slippy runs out to truck and removes the $25k that he usually carries with him in the console...)


In the past, the amount was not nearly as much as that. A few thousand dollars. The sort of money I used to take on vacation.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Probably my biggest fear is a federal land grab in NV.

Water I have no concerns about. The area I'd direct you too or any one has 20-30 ft water tables so a self drilled hand well is possible but I also get 3-5 inches a year of rain and we have about 1800 sq feet of collection area and could easily do more, but is only live there on the weekends and don't need more right now. I think the biggest rain since we've owned it it .8 of a inch and we wouldn't be able to store all of that....it'd fill our storage. Eying the desert you need good storage for it can be 9 months between rain fall.

Going to this region my wife equates to "checking out." Meaning it's quite possible you may never see, talk too, or meet anyone again 



Denton said:


> Potential scarcity of water is a concern, as well as that it is still in the U.S. The U.S. is owned by the mega corporate world and is not going to allow the citizens to retake the country.
> 
> Pear Tree mentioned Costa Rico, and while it might be a beautiful and ex-pat friendly place, it is too closely connected to the U.S.
> 
> It would seem that, if one were wanting to get out of the way of the big feet, one would have to find a place not connected.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

LOL that's south of hwy 80. If I suggest that to anyone (like my brother in law) it means I don't like you. North of hwy 80 near Oregon border is sweet.



thepeartree said:


> Are those acres Guaranteed-not-to-glow-in-the-dark acres? More than half the state is owned by the governmet. Then there's trying to find land WITH water rights you own. Flash flooding, probably dust storms, and I think it gets rather hot come summer, right?


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

My family bought land in belize, my good friend jumped on that one too. Me, I'm sitting here! I know the land, I know how to survive here. the tropics do sound nice, but it's the locals I would be worried about when government colapses. you can always take the cat out of the jungle, but you can never take the jungle out of the cat!! look how long weve been around, and were are hardly civilized, we expect them to become and stay civilized in under 150-200 years?!?!


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> Umm... climate? Job opportunities? Cost of living? Less crime...really? They hire crack-heads as mayors of major cities!


Out east is pretty corrupt, the mobs run the show in Montreal, I'm guessing they have their foot in the door in Toronto too!


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

I do really like Samoa, Not American Samoa, but Independant Samoa, It's one place that we were able to live off the land while touring for two weeks. the people are mainly Christian and very hospitable, and it's where Robert L Stevenson wrote Treasure Island, and they have kick ass trucks like Hilux's. I could live there, but then again I don't think there is a single firearm on the Island, maybe one wouldnt need one there?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

jro1 said:


> I do really like Samoa, Not American Samoa, but Independant Samoa, It's one place that we were able to live off the land while touring for two weeks. the people are mainly Christian and very hospitable, and it's where Robert L Stevenson wrote Treasure Island, and they have kick ass trucks like Hilux's. I could live there, but then again I don't think there is a single firearm on the Island, maybe one wouldnt need one there?


And the Samoan chicks! Wowza!


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Slippy said:


> And the Samoan chicks! Wowza!


...and the food is unreal, the fruit is just awesome, cant say much for the vegetables, got tired of taro fast, But the way they cook the pork is better than any outback smoke house pork I ever had! maybe its the way they hang the meat in a hot humid shed for a week at a time....


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Slippy said:


> And the Samoan chicks! Wowza!


You mean you want samoa dem chicks?


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

ahahaha, ba dum tsh!


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

jro1 said:


> Out east is pretty corrupt, the mobs run the show in Montreal, I'm guessing they have their foot in the door in Toronto too!


I would be okay living in western Canada, but would not even consider living in Canada anywhere east of Ft. Francis.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Inor said:


> I would be okay living in western Canada, but would not even consider living in Canada anywhere east of Ft. Francis.


If I was young again, I'd spend some time in Banff for dang sure...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Somebody mentioned Ecuador; here are the numbers....

Cost Of Living Comparison Between Ecuador And United States

Great numbers. Now, let me find the down side...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Among the upsides, there is a potential downside...

-- It's a charming, walkable colonial city.
-- The cost of living is low (though rising) and the cost of real estate is near rock bottom for Latin America.
-- The health care is high quality, honest, and inexpensive.
-- You can enjoy its spring-like climate 12 months of the year.
-- Cuenca's large and growing expat community is one of Latin America's most established and integrated with the local community.
-- Ecuador offers user-friendly retiree residency options.
-- Ecuador uses the U.S. dollar meaning no exchange-rate risk for American retirees

What will happen to the adventurous retiree when the dollar hits the rocks?


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

When the dollar collapses I'd rather be in Ecuador or any where else for they will find a medium that works. People in the US will likely just exchange lead at 1200-1500 FPS.



Denton said:


> Among the upsides, there is a potential downside...
> 
> -- It's a charming, walkable colonial city.
> -- The cost of living is low (though rising) and the cost of real estate is near rock bottom for Latin America.
> ...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Ripon said:


> When the dollar collapses I'd rather be in Ecuador or any where else for they will find a medium that works. People in the US will likely just exchange lead at 1200-1500 FPS.


I thought of that, but I also think I will then become the alien who is from the country that allowed the currency to fail.

I might become the lovable little fellow who speaks Spanish with the cute accent to the jerk face from the bad place. :lol:


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Watch out for the gut worms.


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## Dalarast (May 16, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> Watch out for the gut worms.


Gut worms... I will drink to much rot gut if I lived in Ecuador to kill gut worms


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

This is jumping back a bit, but to the mention of 'Oh no Canada has a mayor who done crack!', I would any day happily take a drunk crackhead over Harry Reid. So, there's that. If we're going to judge a country by politicians, let's just not until after we have cleansed the USA of it's own problems.



Slippy said:


> If I was young again, I'd spend some time in Banff for dang sure...


2 1/2 years for me, working at a lakeside resort. Loved it.


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## Daddy O (Jan 20, 2014)

In my country the national bird would be a social finger, put it right on the flag: ****offouttahere, thats what id call my nation. No gun control, no politiks, no taxes. Women of all colors welcome.


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## ohiomama (Oct 6, 2014)

Slippy said:


> At least the year that I lived in St Louis, the Cards went to the World Series. I forgot where the Indians ended up when I lived there, but I remember they sucked. Plus I blocked the whole experience out of my mind.


Oooooh, Cleveland isn't THAT bad! At least the Browns are doing good this season. I live in the burbs...but busted in a CLE speed camera...I didn't get to vote on that today...along with the other 70% non-CLE (suburb) residents who actually get speed camera tickets! Hmph.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> This is jumping back a bit, but to the mention of 'Oh no Canada has a mayor who done crack!', I would any day happily take a drunk crackhead over Harry Reid. So, there's that. If we're going to judge a country by politicians, let's just not until after we have cleansed the USA of it's own problems. 2 1/2 years for me, working at a lakeside resort. Loved it.


We had an election and elected a new mayor. John Tory, a conservative.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> I like the commercials for relocating to Belize. The middle aged fat guy with the 20 something chica in the blue bikini. When I start drawing my pension in two years I was considering bailing out but I just have to see how things turn out.


When I retire, I plan on retiring to Belize and live out my day with Dignity. Say hola to Dignity!
View attachment 7742


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

paraquack said:


> When I retire, I plan on retiring to Belize and live out my day with Dignity. Say hola to Dignity!
> View attachment 7742


Maybe no-seeums aren't so bad, after all.


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## oldgrouch (Jul 11, 2014)

I think I will stay put. We live in a great bug in location, and besides, I have to look after the grandchildren.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

TorontoGal said:


> We had an election and elected a new mayor. John Tory, a conservative.


Holy crap, even his last name is Tory.


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