# Exiting the Crazy to go off grid



## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

Have you ever had a conversation that started off really simple and two hours later it's gone way deeper than you ever expected?

Let me fast forward to the last 45 minutes worth of topic. How possible would it be to gather a group of 10-12 people who bought a small piece of land (50-60 acres) together and lived there off-grid. This idea had some holes in it here and there, but it seemed doable if you could find the right people. 

Home school the kids, use renewable energy and buy property (if you could find it) that was once used for a summer camp. A few buildings on it, a large pond or small lake, a water well, plenty of trees and in an area where it could be defended. 

My friend explained there is a way to do it legally, where the property and any vehicles listed are under a particular name and not related to any of the group. If we were able to get the same year vehicles and have spare parts, with a mechanic among us along with a farmer, nurse or doctor, plumber or contractor and everyone getting some gun training... it could work. 

I don't want to disclose all the details here/now, but I have to say the idea was very intriguing. The more we talked about it, the better it sounded.
And do you want to know what started this conversation??? It was about all the crazy things that has been going on in the world over the last 10-15 years. How people aren't the same, they have become too dependent on electronics and less aware about their surroundings. Even how the average IQ is less now than it was 50 years ago! 

SO... what say you?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

The key is to find the "right" people.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Historically, 'communes' rarely work.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Slippy said:


> The key is to find the "right" people.





Back Pack Hack said:


> Historically, 'communes' rarely work.


Hey BookWorm,
10 or 12 of the "right" people you say, huh? Try finding just 3 that will commit financially and succumb to the groups needed leadership roles. Remember, when adversity hits all bets are off and the self preservation that is a key element to the nature of man, will surface it's ugly self.

Now get back to the drawing board.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Here's an interesting movie...free on YouTube.

"The Village"

Folks that had the same idea.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Slippy said:


> The key is to find the "right" people.





Robie said:


> Here's an interesting movie...free on YouTube.
> 
> "The Village"
> 
> Folks that had the same idea.


Excellent movie! I have watched it more than once, the commitment by family portrayed in the movie was one of no return with complete and secretive isolation. Most who speak of living off the grid, are not this committed.

I did adopt a phrase from the movie that I have used for years when my wife tells me that her mother is coming to visit &#8230;.. "Those we do not speak of"! :vs_lol:


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm more up for everyone buying their own property in a small town. You guys are really nice and all, and I'd like you as neighbors, but I'm not into sharing kitchens and bathrooms and personal property with anyone but blood relations.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> I'm more up for everyone buying their own property in a small town. You guys are really nice and all, and I'd like you as neighbors, but I'm not into sharing kitchens and bathrooms and personal property with anyone but blood relations.


Yea, you guys back off from Annie &#8230;. she's my cuzzin' and I ain't sharing her kitchen!


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Contracts- how a person gets out spelled out. Leadership by election or leadership mandatory rotated with terms set . The camp idea might work but you need some tillable acres most camps do not have that. Rather look for a small farming area lots of places in the plains with low cost land. 

Anns idea of living separate houses in an a neighborhood is more practical. Just do a lot of helping each other out / barter.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

I think you put the property in an LLC, then go form there. 
These kind of communes have happened before. Jim Jones, Koresh, etc etc.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

These are all very good points, a few of which were talked about in the final 25 minutes of the deep chat. It's easy to talk about when it's just talk... but when it starts to get real, that's when people start to question the idea.

As another example, say 3-4 of the 10-12 have trouble giving up smoking or FB or some other addiction they have. Until they get it under control they may not be fun to be around. Or worse yet, cause unneeded problems. 

The idea of having people in their own homes and everybody in close proximity is good, but can be difficult to defend a larger area and you go through more supplies. (5 wood burning stoves in 5 houses will use more wood than 1-2 stoves in 1-2 houses.)

I'll have to look for the Village on netflix.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Yea, you guys back off from Annie &#8230;. she's my cuzzin' and I ain't sharing her kiitchen!


Cousins and gum buddies need only apply at Annie's Cafe.

Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

There is always the problem with socialism. Having the right people, and having the right people in charge to make it work is always the excuse for failure of this great idea. In the history of Communism, socialism standards of living plunge. The only thing that holds it together is brute force. There are always slackers and thieves. The Pilgrims and the Colony at Jamestown tried socialism but found out it did not work and nearly starved to death over it. The rules became if you do not do meaningful work you do not eat. Saying your out searching for gold was not work.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Not that television is like reality but go watch a few episodes of The Walking Dead and see how well all the communities go. There are always fights for power and disagreements on how things should be done. This would most likely be your biggest obstacle.

The other downside is this would probably put you in the sights of an ABC government agency or two.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

There are six types of bones in every organization: The jawbone, the wishbone, the knucklebones, the lazybones, the busybones and the backbone.

The jawbone talks a lot, but does little else. The wishbone always wishes someone else will do something. The knucklebones are those who knock everything that anyone else tries to do.

The lazybones are the those who show up as the work is finished. Busybones pretend to ‘belong’ and claim to be a valuable asset but are always tied up on their own projects and with their own needs.

And the backbone.........those who actually carry the load and do the work that’s necessary to get the job done.


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

I think you'd have to run it as a township, not in the legal sense though. People would need to be of the mindset of being an employee/coowner of the community and perform their duties. 
People have their own homes but you'd need some community buildings as in a community hall, storage for community goods and equipment etc.
As far as whos in charge, that depends on the group. Obviously there has to be some form of hierarchy, some my be fine with said person running things, others my work better with an elected leader or a rotation of a preselected number of leaders or a rotation of all agreeable members.


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

Communes don’t work. EOM.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

I suspect that the only way for something like that to work would be for each family to own their own property with a minimum lot size of 10 acres or larger. Add a very basic 30 year HOA agreement that members can only sell their land to other members. 

With 450 acres and 8 families, all selling and buying only to each other with the 30 year HOA is how my location was developed. Most of the 8 owners had known each other from high school and now 7 families live separate lives but meet up occasionally for a community meal or fireworks. The original home on the property that had the original 450 acres and later sold land to the other 7 people was never included in the HOA and that's how I got in. When this property was mortgaged and later put up for sale by the bank another member of the community was going to buy the property but I managed to slip in and am now considered a part of the community.

From the original 450 acres some people have bought adjoining lots of land so the area is now about 700 acres and surrounded by large lots of farmland and woods owned by absent owners with no houses.
While this is by no means a community of preppers most families here are slightly self sufficient and because we have common goals such as security from hunters and good 'ol boys on ATVs along with raising animals and kids so we work together occasionally to maintain the area and road. If times got really bad I could see the families working together to defend and help one another.

Over the years I've lightly discussed "what if a disaster happened" with most of the neighbors. All but two keep a bit of extra around and those two do a fair amount of farming, canning, and cows so as a group I think food, water, and defensive ability is pretty good. Small orchards, ponds of fish and creeks, cows, goats, chickens, and acres of gardens all developed by the individual land owners so a lot of food and skill diversity here.


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## 0rocky (Jan 7, 2018)

@BookWorm After reading the entire thread and giving this topic some thought, seeing as I had a similar idea years ago, my concept would be similar in some ways as other posters have mentioned. I might create an LLC. I would give some thoughts on setting up the group more as a shooting / hunting club charter. Think cooperative. Everyone's dues are an equal portion of the taxes. In time you might elect to establish a central/community hall, but while I acknowledge and agree with you that everyone living under a shared roof is more financially and energy efficient there is a greater purpose in having all parties occupy their own abode; that of harmony. Consider not just the privacy aspect but the simpler concept that you brought up. Yes, more efficient to have a smaller number of wood stoves BUT on person's too hot is another's too cold. ... and who is using up too much firewood that so and so cut and stacked. A happy community is one that survives.

Just a thought or two from an older fellow, living off grid, having very nice neighbors who all understand that when my gate is closed, I'm in need of solace.

Best of luck in your endeavor.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

Thanks for all the feedback, ideas, thoughts and warnings. 

I wonder how the big move is going to go over when that first group of 20 or 50 people go to Mars. How many will still be alive in 6 months after they land.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

So called Planned Communities, HOA’s, people with egos, HOA’s, bureaucrats, and other evils of society is why my wife and I live in the unincorporated part of our county. Well away from any town, suburb, HOA.

Oh, you may think a commune type socialistic community would all be pulling together toward the common goal. To do so severely overlooks basic humanity.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> So called Planned Communities, HOA's, people with egos, HOA's, bureaucrats, and other evils of society is why my wife and I live in the unincorporated part of our county. Well away from any town, suburb, HOA.
> 
> Oh, you may think a commune type socialistic community would all be pulling together toward the common goal. To do so severely overlooks basic humanity.


I agree. I don't want a commune, just Mayberry USA.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Annie said:


> I agree. I don't want a commune, just Mayberry USA.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlton_County,_Georgia

Click and ye shall find.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> I agree. I don't want a commune, just Mayberry USA.


Heck, I'd be grateful for a time machine and just go back a few decades. One of the things I detest about present life is that for all of the convenience and lack of back-breaking work to do, people have decided to savage each other as the new social interaction. I have been pro-gun, pro-knife and occasionally looked at a pretty girl since the early 1960s. This behavior had me classified as a "guy."

Now I am a misogynistic, knife-wielding, armed detriment to society defining all differing aspects as 'hate speech.' I find this a bit odd, I mean, Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my entire gun collection over 40 years.

The next guy that falsely accuses me of these 'crimes' is going to get his teddy bear taken away, and I'm not giving it back...


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

OP, I think it would be extremely difficult to say the least. But! Where there's a will, there's a way. The human social dynamic is something that is just that...dynamic. Who were once your friends/family can pull a 180 and be your worst enemy the next day. Survival has become just as tough of a fight as warfare has. It has become more individual in nature due to the increased reliance on a successful society. Could you pull a small community together on acreage and make it work? Sure. But honestly, I wouldn't want to. I would prefer to prep for my family ONLY so everything is by our rules. When you bring in outsiders (not family), their focus will ALWAYS be on their own families survival. So you don't get a true "community-minded" group. Instead it ends up being small family "cells" that contribute to a community. Sounds reasonable...until one of the cells changes their mind about a judgement or decision that doesn't go their (or their families) way. That "cells" contention will fester and eventually cause a tear in the community. This tear will spread to the point where folks will begin to remove their "cells" from the community in order to preserve their own peace. You can't change humans. They/we won't let you. Pooling resources for equal distribution is the basis for socialism. Nobody (other than Bernie supporters) likes it. That's why it eventually fails. 

Solution: Do this as a family unit on your own land. Self sustain. Be reliant on no-one. That's what prepping is all about. But also, love thy neighbor (when possible) to preserve that sense of "community." Pay it forward when you can. That is how prepper communities are successful.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Smokin04 said:


> OP, I think it would be extremely difficult to say the least. But! Where there's a will, there's a way. The human social dynamic is something that is just that...dynamic. Who were once your friends/family can pull a 180 and be your worst enemy the next day. Survival has become just as tough of a fight as warfare has. It has become more individual in nature due to the increased reliance on a successful society. Could you pull a small community together on acreage and make it work? Sure. But honestly, I wouldn't want to. I would prefer to prep for my family ONLY so everything is by our rules. When you bring in outsiders (not family), their focus will ALWAYS be on their own families survival. So you don't get a true "community-minded" group. Instead it ends up being small family "cells" that contribute to a community. Sounds reasonable...until one of the cells changes their mind about a judgement or decision that doesn't go their (or their families) way. That "cells" contention will fester and eventually cause a tear in the community. This tear will spread to the point where folks will begin to remove their "cells" from the community in order to preserve their own peace. You can't change humans. They/we won't let you. Pooling resources for equal distribution is the basis for socialism. Nobody (other than Bernie supporters) likes it. That's why it eventually fails.
> 
> Solution: Do this as a family unit on your own land. Self sustain. Be reliant on no-one. That's what prepping is all about. But also, love thy neighbor (when possible) to preserve that sense of "community." Pay it forward when you can. That is how prepper communities are successful.


The advantage of having a large number of traditional familiy who are neighbors and are all well prepared is almost inestimable. Because should it come down to TEOTWAWKI, one family alone probably can't keep looters at bay.

The only other option as I see it would be to find a location that's relatively removed from society. That would be less desirable for most families with kids who want to raise them and lead a normal life within socierty, but for those getting ready to retire, it might be a good thing.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Heck, I'd be grateful for a time machine and just go back a few decades. One of the things I detest about present life is that for all of the convenience and lack of back-breaking work to do, people have decided to savage each other as the new social interaction. I have been pro-gun, pro-knife and occasionally looked at a pretty girl since the early 1960s. This behavior had me classified as a "guy."
> 
> Now I am a misogynistic, knife-wielding, armed detriment to society defining all differing aspects as 'hate speech.' I find this a bit odd, I mean, Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my entire gun collection over 40 years.
> 
> The next guy that falsely accuses me of these 'crimes' is going to get his teddy bear taken away, and I'm not giving it back...


A time machine? I think I'd like that too in some ways. I had more freedom back in the day when I was younger. But there are some really cool things about these times. For one thing the internet has made it possible for more people to work from home. I think that's fantastic.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> For one thing the internet has made it possible for more people to work from home. I think that's fantastic.


The internet, huh? I don't seem to need it on my job, but to be fair to your opinion and credibility, let me check.

(...biker fumbles through his work area...)

Yup, I was right, I do not need the internet. I have rocks and I have water. I'm either out of my grid, or off the gourd, you know, the thing the kids say...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlton_County,_Georgia
> 
> Click and ye shall find.


Grafton. This place is a little slice of heaven and far off the beaten trail about a 20-minute drive on a dirt road from the main road.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I found it interesting that until about 1960 it was heavy democrat controlled. What happened? My political observations were not so good when I was 4 yrs. old. Looks like the kind of place we could retire to.


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## Wingnut (Jul 7, 2018)

Robie said:


> Here's an interesting movie...free on YouTube.
> 
> "The Village"
> 
> Folks that had the same idea.


I watched the movie on your recommendation. Very enjoyable, and very unlike most mainstream movies - but it sure did harsh my buzz regarding communes.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

Robie said:


> Here's an interesting movie...free on YouTube.
> 
> "The Village"
> 
> Folks that had the same idea.


 @Robie The wife and i watched this last night. Very good script and idea for a movie. I didn't see the big surprise coming at the end (last 20 minutes). In my mind, the idea I had was about 40% the same of this film. I don't want to hide behind lies, rather be open as to why we left the craziness of society. I want to monitor society, just not be in the middle of it. But still a good recommendation! thanks for that.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

I don't think it would be easy to put together a group that would work, in a location that would be suited for defense, livability and being left alone but I'd sure like to retire this way.


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## Wingnut (Jul 7, 2018)

BookWorm said:


> I don't think it would be easy to put together a group that would work, in a location that would be suited for defense, livability and being left alone but I'd sure like to retire this way.


Israel has kibbutz's which seem to work fine, and have done so for decades. Why is it that they succeed where others fail?

"A kibbutz (Hebrew: קִבּוּץ‬ / קיבוץ‬, lit. "gathering, clustering"; regular plural kibbutzim קִבּוּצִים‬ / קיבוצים‬) is a collective community in Israel that was traditionally based on agriculture. The first kibbutz, established in 1909, was Degania.[1] Today, farming has been partly supplanted by other economic branches, including industrial plants and high-tech enterprises.[2] Kibbutzim began as utopian communities, a combination of socialism and Zionism.[3] In recent decades, some kibbutzim have been privatized and changes have been made in the communal lifestyle. A member of a kibbutz is called a kibbutznik (Hebrew: קִבּוּצְנִיק‬ / קיבוצניק‬; plural kibbutznikim or kibbutzniks).

In 2010, there were 270 kibbutzim in Israel. Their factories and farms account for 9% of Israel's industrial output, worth US$8 billion, and 40% of its agricultural output, worth over $1.7 billion.[4] Some kibbutzim had also developed substantial high-tech and military industries. For example, in 2010, Kibbutz Sasa, containing some 200 members, generated $850 million in annual revenue from its military-plastics industry.[5]

Currently the kibbutzim are organised in the secular Kibbutz Movement with some 230 kibbutzim, the Religious Kibbutz Movement with 16 kibbutzim and the much smaller religious Poalei Agudat Yisrael with two kibbutzim, all part of the wider communal settlement movement."

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz


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