# Generators and long term grid down



## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Weighing my options about the kind of generator I will be purchasing soon.
I am leaning toward a pretty big output -- 12-16K and a 500 gal propane tank. This will serve me nicely for short term outages, like up to a month or maybe two. But in a real grid-down crisis, like loosing electricity forever, a generator will prove worthless after your fuel supply is exhausted. There will be no more propane deliveries. Even if we're using gasoline, how long before supplies completely dry up -- a few weeks? 

So I am rethinking my strategy. Maybe I don't need as big a setup as I was planning. I could extend the time usage on a generator by only using it for a few hours every other day. The purpose here would be to ONLY power my refrigerator and garage freezer. I found that during the last hurricane that hit Virginia -- where we lost power for 30 hours -- my food stayed cold enough in the freezers, never getting above the freezing point. I couldn't have gone much longer though. So, if I only fire up the generator every other day for a few hours to drive the temps back to 0 degrees, I could maybe extend the fuel supply to double what I was planning on. The problem is that I (or anyone) would be tempted to use the generator for more non-essential stuff like lighting, or tv watching, or using the stove, etc., etc. 

No matter what though -- if the grid stays down, at the most within a few months, the fuel supply will be gone and surviving from then on will be like living back in the 1800s. I believe the grid is a very fragile thing and susceptible to all kinds of mischief from terrorists, WWIII, or natural calamities. If wide-spread anarchy takes control, normal activities -- like supply and distribution -- will be history. 

I have to keep my eye on the ball.


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## Titan6 (May 19, 2013)

Generac Power Systems | The best backup generator for your home, business | Generac Power Systems Its what Im putting in


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

be careful with sound. you could make yourself a big target with any generator. the same goes for lights being on at night...it is a excellent prep but using it only during the day and on very important things like power tools would be my strategy.


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## Sharkbait (Feb 9, 2014)

IMO a generator is great for SHORT term scenarios such as a bad storm taking power out for a few days.But thats not a shtf scenario (well maybe locally,but still).

If you are wanting to run a generator LONG term after a major shtf scenario,it will just attract unwanted attention to your whereabout's.When all is quiet from nothing electrical running anymore,the sound of a generator running can be carried quite a ways and will be sweet music to most that hear it.Could make you a target.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Sharkbait said:


> If you are wanting to run a generator LONG term after a major shtf scenario,it will just attract unwanted attention to your whereabout's.When all is quiet from nothing electrical running anymore,the sound of a generator running can be carried quite a ways and will be sweet music to most that hear it.Could make you a target.


This is why I love this forum. Excellent points for consideration.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

One thing to consider would be running a diesel generator.
Using decaying biomass, you can produce your own bio-diesel with a bit of effort and time.
This could give you a drastically longer run-time, out as far as you're willing to grow/gather the bio matter.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

We have a giant excess of some of the best fuel making bio matter there is about to cross the border and announce pestilent ownership?

Heh heh short of that? Be the first to hit your local liposuction shops dumpster - but they do have a fit about it so don't get caught.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

My plan is the Generac Stand By Generator for the whole house. My reason is simple, the EPA War on Coal and Cheap Energy. 

None of us can do a damn thing about an EMP or a Total Collapse of the Grid. BUT, my hope is to be prepared for rolling black outs caused by a strain on our Grid due to coal power plants being shut down or targeted to be shut down.

Gives me some time to get a Solar System installed to run my whole place.


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## GasholeWillie (Jul 4, 2014)

DerBiermeister said:


> This is why I love this forum. Excellent points for consideration.


Start taking lessons from the Amish. They have survived generations without electricity. Problem solved. Lights = oil lanterns. Heat = wood burner. Cooking= fire or propane. Cold storage= you got me there, used to be ice boxes, for them it probably still does. Part of the reason none of my prep stuff includes cold storage. Plenty to be learned from the Amish and crossing it over to prepping. Another thing, they are not all caught up in arming themselves to the teeth and spending crazy types of money on weapons and carry systems etc. like I notice many prep type people do. PS, I'm guilty as charged here as I plan on buying an AR soon and currently own far more guns than I can shoot or carry.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Generators are bullet magnets. Wouldn't be high on my list but nice to have.

Solar panels are the way to go with battery back up. Nice and quite, no need for fuel. Will work for years, hopefully. Maybe a wind turbine or water wheel generator if possible. Use along with wood heat, oil lamps, etc. Try to keep a low profile and be quite. Your generator roaring away will bring all sorts of unwanted visitors.


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## Wise Prepper (Oct 2, 2014)

Couple things to consider. If you live close to a gas well. Get a CNG generator. If you get one i would enclose it in a foam insulated room with proper ventilation. Gas from a well can continue to run even if power is out. That could last for years depending on the situation. Also for cold food storage think about efficient ice makers that can run off a small solar power system and produce enough ice to keep freezer cold. Is one of my next projects also.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

GasholeWillie said:


> Start taking lessons from the Amish. They have survived generations without electricity. Problem solved. Lights = oil lanterns. Heat = wood burner. Cooking= fire or propane. Cold storage= you got me there, used to be ice boxes, for them it probably still does. Part of the reason none of my prep stuff includes cold storage. Plenty to be learned from the Amish and crossing it over to prepping. Another thing, they are not all caught up in arming themselves to the teeth and spending crazy types of money on weapons and carry systems etc. like I notice many prep type people do. PS, I'm guilty as charged here as I plan on buying an AR soon and currently own far more guns than I can shoot or carry.


They live in close-knit communities and can rely on each other as well as the moral fabric that binds them.
If the worst happens, they will be steamrolled by the outside masses.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Deyhdrate your food no way is a genetator of that size required. unless you have a definite need for that much oMG I'm guessing your kind of you wasting your fuel make sure you run a generator of a size bed you actually need all the energy your producing as just running it will eat up fuel.

in a long term emergency its your fuel that's important not the generator. your emergency power should reflect your mergency needs not your day today needs to have more important things to do

none the less it's your generator and your fuel so do what you want obviously

most people could get rid of their deep freezers if they just dehydrated /dried it

if you're running servers or something it might be more useful but most people don't need much electricity. what are you using all that energy for?


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Go with a smaller generator. I prep based on risk and for me it's hurricane (not this uear so far ) and weather. In that case a genset is invaluable. After Ike there were about 5 or 6 generators running on my street so sound isn't an issue. 

Now, shtf bad outage, a genset might attract bad attention after awhile specially if your generator is the only one left running after the rest run out of fuel. In that case I do believe solar and wind would be best. Solar and wind combination, properly sized would run your fridge and freezer and most lighting too.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

I'll preface this by saying I live in the suburbs. With that, I'd only use my generator if we had a short term power outage in an otherwise "normal" world. No way would I make my home a target in a SHTF situation.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Years ago tornado hit way south of my house but storms took out major power lines and we were without electricity for 4 days. I had a small 2600 watt (continuous) genset that kept fridge and freezer cold (ran each for 3 hours per day but not at the same time). Was able to watch TV while the fridge/freezer ran. All was done with extension cords rather than whole house set up. Was a quiet little thing but I still had it chained to a big A$$ tree because lots of neighbors were asking about it. Rather than keep a lot of fuel at home, I siphoned a can as necessary from vehicles. If I had the money to do something now, I'd go solar/wind.


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## hayden (Apr 30, 2012)

There was a big ice storm maybe a decade or so ago in the New England Canada area that brought down all the power lines for weeks. That is what prompted me to buy my genny. 6200 watts. I can't stand to be cold so that was my first test when I got the genny home. Fired it up and hooked up 2 1500 watt oil filled space heaters. The genny never batted an eye, so I knew I could heat my small house with that setup. It was as many have mentioned loud and I would not use it in a long term SHTF grid down situation. It did come in handy a few years ago when hurricane Ike made it all the way to SW Ohio. Was able to keep my fridge and both my neighbors going til power was restored. My ham radio club uses it every year for field day which is good because that is the only time fuel gets cycled thru it. I think in a grid down situation I would use my small solar setup. When I got my new 5cf chest freezer 1st thing I did was make 2 trays of ice using only solar power.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I am more focused on learning what I need for solar...However that being said I plan on having my gas cans all filled, but don't plan on driving much. I don't think a generator is a bad thing to have...if you use it properly


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## Dubyagee (Nov 9, 2012)

Diesel 10k here. Thinking of running the exhaust into a water filled tank and sound enclosing the engine. Liquid fuel will be short lived though and a wood gasifier is a lot of work. Solar is okay if your equipment is built to last and you realize it will fail at some point. 

In a long term panic situation theres no way to stay below radar. Someone will notice prosperous life at some point. 

Little house on the prairie is my mindset.


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## GasholeWillie (Jul 4, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> They live in close-knit communities and can rely on each other as well as the moral fabric that binds them.
> If the worst happens, they will be steamrolled by the outside masses.


steamrolled? They don't have a lot of things, they do have guns as they hunt. But killing.."thou shalt not kill." Very resilient people. For what they would lose in a steamrolled event, they would recover it in less than a few days.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

3 kW Military diesel with sound suppression kit, 120/240V. Sips fuel but powerful enough to run a well pump. Has fuel pump so I can feed it off twin 275-gal fuel oil tanks, much more energy than a 500-gal propane tank or 500-gal gasoline. Only run it for water or frig/freezer, make ice when doing so. If not running capacity feed the extra into a battery bank so no wasted fuel. 550-gal fuel will last a long time as I can heat with wood in the coldest weather.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Solar and wind are quiet but visually it is obvious what it is. Unless you are way out in the sticks it will be common knowledge if you have electricity or not. Sooner or later you will have to defend.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I'm way out, but its a small community still. SO I want all 3 methods somehow. Wind Solar and a back up Gen.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Multiple sources is a good plan if possible.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

This application I think applies to more than one subject.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Generator = short term

Grab a low cost unit, for your back up power, invest savings into some solar panels and a couple of 100ah batteries, store properly....

Power goes down, generator for a few days, no chance of power coming back on before running out if fuel, dust off solar panels and batteries and bingo, emergency power that is very very quiet, neighbors will assume no more fuel (believable) and you still have tv


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## txcdrvr (Sep 19, 2014)

After IKE took my house. I built a new one . Installed a 10kw generac. auto transfer switch and hooked to cng. Just about 5 grand.. power goes off it kicks on in a matter of seconds..can't be beat.. till gss cmpny shuts down.. if I did it over I'd invest in solar.. but the genny is nice. You need 2 of those big LP tanks that way one is allways full. .


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

All fhings non-electric: http://www.lehmans.com


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## ajk1941 (Feb 17, 2013)

I figure that my 7000w LP generator (connected to my 500 gal LP tank) will carry me for about 3 months. All the lighting in the house has been converted to LEDs. My back up lighting is Dietz lanterns fueled by diesel, poorer light, but better long term storage. The bottom line is that any emergency that lasts more then three months, will not be recoverable from...


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Slippy said:


> My plan is the Generac Stand By Generator for the whole house. My reason is simple, the EPA War on Coal and Cheap Energy.
> 
> None of us can do a damn thing about an EMP or a Total Collapse of the Grid. BUT, my hope is to be prepared for rolling black outs caused by a strain on our Grid due to coal power plants being shut down or targeted to be shut down.
> 
> Gives me some time to get a Solar System installed to run my whole place.


EMP's will take out UNPROTECTED solar panels and setups, generators, wind turbines, cars, etc...food for thought.


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## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

Theoretically at least, a small solar system with good batteries should be able to run a small freezer indefinitely. If you make ice, you can keep refrigerated items in a good cooler and replace the ice as necessary from the freezer.
Of course, that brings up the problem of running the well pump.


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