# Will gangs really rule when shtf?



## davidpsc

I mean really, gangs have large numbers and weapons. But there are more people that would want to restore order when the shtf that would outnumber the gangs.


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## amym505

I hope there are more people that will want to restore order. I am afraid that most people in urban areas will be bugging out, and leave the unprepared to the gangs mercy, and that the gangs will take over cities.


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## Leon

The gangs, be they small and large will definitely be there. I am thinking from poor areas first and better armed, better off areas next. Given a few days though chaos will slowly set in until daily life is a shoot or loot situation unless you have your systems in place and operating. That's what I think.


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## acidlittle

To think there won't be gangs is foolish, there is Law and Order right now and people are always looking for the easy score. what makes people think that there won't be bands of people who don't want to work and want to take what they can? Absolutely there will be gangs in SHTF.


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## bigdogbuc

acidlittle said:


> To think there won't be gangs is foolish, there is Law and Order right now and people are always looking for the easy score. what makes people think that there won't be bands of people who don't want to work and want to take what they can? Absolutely there will be gangs in SHTF.


There is no doubt that there will be gangs and marauders, rape, pillage and plunder. However, I don't think it will last long. In a SHTF or WROL situation, the good folks like us, won't have to put up with the gangs and a non-functioning criminal justice system like we do now. We will simply be able to take care of the situation in an expeditious, permanent manner. And their friends too.


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## amym505

I sure hope there will be a Wyatt Earp reincarnate around!


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## fedorthedog

Gangs will kill each other during the break up. The live in cities and are in conflict with each other. As soon as the law is gone they will attack each other in the open. It will cut down their numbers. 

There are many common men who are just as tuff or tuffer than the average gang member, they dont kill the gang member because it is illegal. The police dont kill them because it is illegal. When the rules are gone my beliefs and determination of the value of a person will determine who I shoot. Know gang member, bang. They are not nice people and will be worse after, they use fear and intimidation backed by violence to get their way. Just shoot them.


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## thomasdangerpowers

There is no doubt that there will be gangs and marauders, rape, pillage and plunder. However, I don't think it will last long. In a SHTF or WROL situation, the good folks like us, won't have to put up with the gangs and a non-functioning criminal justice system like we do now. We will simply be able to take care of the situation in an expeditious, permanent manner. And their friends too.[/quote]

I second that 100% I know am totally aware of all these problems or sick dangerous people who get a rush out of hurting people and I'm totally prepared to deal with them and encourage other to do what they must to protect thereselves. However I also believe there are many Americans with guns as well as gang members they will cross each other out when they meet in hostile situations because people will defend their families and several families may group together to deal with this kind of thing. Also these gang members don't clean and maintain firearms, they don't stock pile ammo, they steal guns, shoot them till there emtpy and drop them and run. I think the police may be the most dangerous gang of all with weapons, ammo, tactics, communication, a base, comradery, and families of their own they have to feed to keep alive


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## Dreams

Close to us, we have two known gangs... Im hoping.. (and its possible) that when SHTF, they get into a pissing contest and off each other before they go looting houses. Never know... when it does happen, Im sure one will want to "rule" certain areas for their own looting pleasure...if they fight each other, it would be better for everyone.. so heres hoping.

Otherwise, I hope it takes them a few days to make their way over to our town...


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## fedorthedog

thomasdangerpowers said:


> There is no doubt that there will be gangs and marauders, rape, pillage and plunder. However, I don't think it will last long. In a SHTF or WROL situation, the good folks like us, won't have to put up with the gangs and a non-functioning criminal justice system like we do now. We will simply be able to take care of the situation in an expeditious, permanent manner. And their friends too.


I second that 100% I know am totally aware of all these problems or sick dangerous people who get a rush out of hurting people and I'm totally prepared to deal with them and encourage other to do what they must to protect thereselves. However I also believe there are many Americans with guns as well as gang members they will cross each other out when they meet in hostile situations because people will defend their families and several families may group together to deal with this kind of thing. Also these gang members don't clean and maintain firearms, they don't stock pile ammo, they steal guns, shoot them till there emtpy and drop them and run. I think the police may be the most dangerous gang of all with weapons, ammo, tactics, communication, a base, comradery, and families of their own they have to feed to keep alive[/quote]

I like the cops being dangerous idea, cause it will happen. But for the most part they will group up take what they need short term and find a place to stay. A number of the guys I work with who know I prep say they are coming to my house. I will let them into my area and use what they know. We have enough vacant homes and building to house them. But you must remember that the number of police will decline rapidly at the outset as they are killed off before the feds become involved.


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## acidlittle

I hope everybody doesn't think gangs will fight eachother, because some might just wise up and band with other gangs in order to control certain cities/areas/resources. While they are mostly criminals and idiots, In my opinion, there is the very real chance that they band up and become a force to deal with. And that is something people didn't want to think about, but it's the truth

If you see cops in a group in SHTF, leave. Exit, get the hell out of there. I respect LEO's but they will be EXTRA alert and trigger happy if everything goes to hell. They will have to be to survive, everybody will look at them to protect them and it just won't be feasible. This is clearly all speculation, but I also think that most LEO's in a severe SHTF will not wear their uniforms and duck out of serving, to preserve themselves. Police have families too that they will want to take care of too.

Just remember to look at both sides of what can happen, that is how you really prepare!


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## kyletx1911a1

that is a worry but when that time comes i will be bugging out to a friends house in the country, but my thought for the time being i will ride it out for about 72 hrs
to let the roads clear then make a break for it, 
and if i have to shoot my way out then so be it


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## Weak_and_Shy

Why are you afraid of these gangs?

Do they have food to last them a few weeks or will they be forced to get food? If they don't have food to feed themselves you will see their ranks dissipate after the first missed lunch. After a few days without food they will simply enter a state of apathy and what you need to do is avoid them until this happen. If you have all the food and water you need and a decent shelter you only need to stay put inside and let them go about whatever they do. Of course you may need to defend yourself but I would say you should have no problem with this if you have taken actions to secure your house if SHTF/WROL. A semiautomatic carbine with a few cases of ammo will be more then you ever will need to deal with these. Do you really think they will charge your house in a blind rage for the hope that one or two can get to the house? Of course they won't do this. They will be starving and looking for an easy catch and unless you are this catch they won't do much until it has gotten so far you are the only one left and at that stage they will have gone from starving to starved. If you live somewhere where there isn't much water around you only need to hold out for a about a week IMO.


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## tqu9047

Gangs will be around, but not for long. I see too much infighting over who gets this and who gets that. Whether it's food, water or the girls, these gangs will self destruct.
Also, when the gangs and their pistols come across a neighborhood that is ready to defend themselves and these gangers start getting picked off at 100+ yards. They will scream for momma.

Tim


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## Constantine

I think they won't last long, since they'll be too busy killing each other, and people will start killing them off. I doubt they'll have the know-how or patience to grow their own food, so they'll have to get it from somewhere else; I think that'll either be from raiding, or getting people addicted to drugs and getting stuff from them.

I live in an area with a large number of gangs. I know of about 5 or 6 off-hand who're pretty big. That's excluding smaller, youth gangs, which there's lots and lots. I honestly wouldn't mind letting them have at each other.

They have turf to fight over, though, so I expect they'll end up killing themselves off until they're little more than an irregular (if potentially dangerous) inconvenience. However, what damage will they do while they are around? I expect a fair bit, to the extent everyone knows someone who knew someone who had something happen to them.

What about if some gangs do get organized though? They start dealing drugs, abductions, etc, but not going after the ones who fight back with guns? For us in the UK we're at a disadvantage: they have guns, we don't. Utter foolishness.


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## shotlady

i dont think gangs will rule long. they wont have the know how or basic skill past looting. theres only so much you can loot. its gotta run out then what? they wont have the moxy to head to the deserts, hills and mountains. ill bet they stay in the city like the rats they are.

i


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## Lucky Jim

shotlady said:


> i dont think gangs will rule long. they wont have the know how or basic skill past looting. theres only so much you can loot. its gotta run out then what? they wont have the moxy to head to the deserts, hills and mountains. ill bet they stay in the city like the rats they are.


Yeah, a gang is just an armed mob, totally lacking in firearms training and tactics, plus of course they'll possibly be stoned out of their minds or drunk (think zombs), so any determined Prepper will be worth 100 of them..
Kurt Russell had the right mindset in 'Soldier' when his peaceful little group was threatened-


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## nadja

Gangs. Mmmmm let me think about this. You mean the mindless doped up drunk idiots that run around shooting people at random type people ? They are just that, only lots of them. Will they be a threat to us ? Only for a short time and for the most part mostly in the cities. Out here in the woods where I live, it gets dark at night, wild animals such as cows and chickens etc, would all lead up to them making a long trip for nothing. IF you are one of the less fortunate ones living in the cities, the chances of you surviving long term all almost nill anyway. You will have no way to grow your own food, obtain water and litterly trapped in your environment. IF you really want to survive, start planing to move to the country and do it now. 

Look at it this way. There you are in the city and you are happy as a clam, for you have managed to create a really productive container garden in your tiny little back yard. As soon as you start cooking that harvest, people will smell it. Even it it isn't the "gangs" your talking about, there will be plenty of mob's running around searching for food. You cook it, they will come. Gunfights, where, at your front door ? How long will that last do you think ? About 5 minutes before the blood gets slippery and the flies land. I hate to pop your bubble, but in reality, you don't win a gun fight. At least not a sustained one. 

To survive a major everlasting event, you need to not be in the city. Even getting out of there will be a life or death situation. So, here you are already worried about the gangs, which most likely means that they are already a major concern of yours, knowing full well that given the chance they will only get worse, and still you sit there and do nothing. Your looking for a fast solution to a very bad problem. There is none. Bottom line, again IF your in the city, you will perish at some point and time before everything even begins to get some kind of normalcy once again. 

The best solution of course is to remove yourself from the city and do it asap. Sure you will make less money out here in the rural areas. In fact it can be darn near impossible to make much at all. But, I can grow as much as we can eat, trade with neighbors for my crops for theirs , chickens, cows, goats, and even fruit somewhat. My solar is all in, wind, back up everything for my solar, 3 gennies for even more backup. Will the 'gangs' make it this far ? Not likely at all. I made this choice about 16 years ago, and have never looked back. My chances are far better then anyone living in the city. Do I have lots of guns and ammo ? Not really. Do I see myself having to worry about gangs ? No. A few really desperate people ? Most likely some anyway. What my lifestyle realy does do, is it allows me to sleep really really well at night. Quiet, secure etc. My dogs , are first line of defense, "driveway alerts" second line and even some in the house in stratigic places. I have food and seeds put away, and know how to garden. All you combat heros in the city should give this some real thought. Oh, by the way, yes it is hard to do, especially at first, but after a year or two , it begins to get much easier all the time. Good Luck


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## Lucky Jim

Depends on the type of Endworld scenario of course, but generally speaking my strategy would be to stay in the city until I HAD to get out.
I mean, there are a million houses and apartments in the city, so the chances are good that the gangs won't single ours out.
Concrete cities make the best shelter, so best not to roam the countryside at the mercy of rain, storm, snow etc.
Also, there'd be plenty of food in deserted supermarkets to keep us alive for months, then when it begins to run out we can start thinking about getting into the country, preferably timed for a summer departure.
Could be some nasty things out there..


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## ibewbull

As you folks ponder the gang problem and wait to "bug out" We in the country worry about the city hordes coming north to the country.
Come on now.
We have plenty of movies about this bologna.
I was concerned about getting home on 9/11 back when it happened. 
Thoughts of road blocks and gas stations closed etc.
Well the gas prices rose and some should have had their ass kicked for exploiting the problem.
It is not a movie and if you look at history then you will have an idea as to what the problems will be.
Each area will differ in the way things are handeld.
Be it fires, riots, earth quakes or hurricanes. 
Americans will be there to help eachother again.
Yes some problems will arise but we have mustered the backboe to TCOB before.
Some people fear Motor Cycle Clubs. I do not call them gangs. I respect the two wheeled warriors for their respect. 
The 1% clubs are composed of a lot of veterans and before I met the folks I had never herd of a 1%er.
So when you talk about gangs be specific please. Don't fog up the lines.
I would trust a 1%er way before a lot of white collar city dwellers.
If you really are into survival, relocate to where you wish. Don't think you will be bugging out to a place and welcome wioth open arms.
Communities stick together so be part of it.
Bond with your support groups. Know your neighbor and help eachother before emergencies happen.
Is there an army of doap addics out there? I don't know. Are there Zombies? Sure there are , that is why we all need the zombie targets and bullets. Maybe some garlic too.


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## nadja

Lucky Jim. Do you really think that there would be ton's of food left in supermarkets ? I think you would find that within 3 days tops of something lasting going wrong, there would be nothing left in any of the stores. Especially food. Have you ever watched the news, in Florida, when there is a hurricane coming in ? The runs on the stores are nothing short of incredible to say the least. Not a single think on the shelves, and pretty much the same thing in Home Depot etc. People wait until the last minute, then run into the stores and buy whatever they can without even thinking about it. Gas stations are the same. People lined up for blocks, start fighting for position just to top off their gas tanks. I was in Watts way back in the 60's and you cannot believe how bad it gets in just a few hours. What your way of thinking is telling me is that you will be one of the unpreppared looters at best. Keep in mind that looters by their very nature are targets instantly. First by the police or national guard or by the people owning the stores themselves. You do not want to be in that position ever. Plan very differently and plan fast. Have a plan to leave if possible with your preps to at least get you out of the city. I believe that you would have a very short window to move out before the general masses have assembled their brains to start moving. While they are heading to their neares empty big box stores, you could be 10 miles out of the city to open road. The city roads leading to the freeways are going to be the first to clog and stall. You need to be past them in 20 or 30 minutes or you will be trapped .


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## Lucky Jim

nadja said:


> ..Do you really think that there would be ton's of food left in supermarkets ?....


Depends which Endworld scenario we're talking about mate, for example if a plague wipes out 99% of humans we'll be able to grab as much stuff as we want from supermarkets, i wouldn't call it looting because there'd be nobody alive within a hundred miles except us, and anyway if we didn't have it it'd just rot and we'd just starve..


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## nadja

Pandemic would be the last thing I would worry about as a shtf long lasting type situation. My number one concern would have to be economic collapse , and number two would be an escalating war starting in the middle east. That would instantly rule out grocery stores being just abandoned for the taking. Think Jim, it ain't gonna happen. Even fast food stores will be empty shelves and nothing else in just a matter of hours and a couple of days. When the fast food places like mickey D's run out from the inital run or the power goes down, all is lost. Period


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## Lucky Jim

Yes we'll have to play it by ear, for example the government might have plans to feed the population in an emergency, so perhaps it'd be best to stay in the city monitoring TV/radio broadcasts, at least til we get an idea of what the hell's going on, and then only get out of town if we have to..


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## nadja

So who is to say that the electricity is still working ? Who would be brodcasting on the tv or even the radio if it were. Sounds to me like you are figuring that the gober't will be giving you all the news on your big screen tv. Hey, maybe you will also need to run to your nearest store and buy a six pack to go with the tv


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## Lucky Jim

As always, it depends what kind of 'national emergency' we're talking about. For example there are pics in the news today of Jupiter getting clobbered by a meteor.
If it happened to Earth the survivors would need all their skills to stay alive to avoid going the same way as the dinosaurs.


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## 1895gunner

In the country I too worry about folk running out of the city to "escape" only to end up on my doorstep. I don't plan on "bugging out" and likely wouldn't unless it was the type of disaster that drove me away from my shelter such as nuclear, flood or fire.

I would need help to defend our homestead and would rely on family, friends & neighbors. I worry none about gangs, less about zombies but I do concentrate on families that will want what we have.

1895gunner


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## Denton

Gangs are serious problems, now. No use in pretending they won't get worse. No, they are not preppers in our sense, but they are resourceful and cunning. They are already clannish and have chains of command.
In the absence of government...


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## nadja

The gangs will be out there. There a real mess now. Given a reason, they will go way off the edge and very quickly. You as a non gang member, caught out in the open, would be dead in a second. They will kill you for what you have or even sport if for no other reason. Death and mayhem are already a common way of life for them. Attempting to hold out against them would be futile at best. It would be much better to head to the hills as so many project, even though that will be a bad end for most. But to stick around the cities and even in the burb's will certainly be your downfall. 

Upon discovering that you still need things, you will have to venture out, and that is your weakest area. Unless you attended school at Quantico or Ft.Benning for escape and evasion, you chances of going undiscovered are about Nil. You need to quit fooling yourselves about your chances in the city. 

As LuckyJim feels, I feel a lot of you think that there would be food for taking in the stores. Not so. Think, think and think some more


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## Lucky Jim

nadja said:


> ...I feel a lot of you think that there would be food for taking in the stores. Not so. Think, think and think some more


As always, we'll have to play it by ear depending on what kind of national emergency or apocalypse it is, then "adapt, improvise, overcome"..
The only surefire strategy before it happens is to prep up with food, drink, water, batteries, fuel etc, to tide us over so that when it hits the fan we can at least hole up safe at home to take stock of the overall situation for a while instead of having to venture out looking for food and stuff elsewhere.
_"It's a dangerous business going out your door"- Bilbo Baggins_

The starving gangs will probably head into the country in the hope of pulling up potatoes and vegetables which they think will be growing in fields everywhere. 
Personally I'll only leave my warm bed in my snug home in the city if I HAVE to, playing it by ear, rather than get cold feet trudging through the bleak landscape looking for turnips..

_"Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning until now, and never to be equaled again."- Jesus of Nazareth, Mark ch 13 _


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## shotlady

my plan is to get out whole others are waiting for news or the gubmint or getting thier balance.
thats my window od survival, drive as far as i can get and hoff it. bike rack on the car...

i dont fool myself about biggin in or holding the forte. even though im in a top flor of a 4story (1story is underground).


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## Lucky Jim

This family seems well prepared..


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## nadja

For one person, that would be pretty good.


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## Denton

I coud see that being good for a family, yes. Productivity happens outside. I can't imagine letting everyone sleep at the same time, either.


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## mossberg500

They will run from my neighborhood when the neighbors and I get done with them. I don't think they want to mess with 8 Vet's and 3 former LEO's with lot's of guns.


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## kyletx1911a1

mossberg500 said:


> They will run from my neighborhood when the neighbors and I get done with them. I don't think they want to mess with 8 Vet's and 3 former LEO's with lot's of guns.


for the win


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## mossberg500

kyletx1911a1 said:


> for the win


If they want in they'll have to go through 7 Vietnam vet's and 1 Afghan Vet.(me) If anyone knows gorilla warfare it would be us. I have enough different cammo ACU's I could hide on my roof and not be seen lol.


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## Medelwr

You might find that the "gangs" might rule for a short period of time but will get those who mean business (like Mossberg500) riled up and will end up spitted on a pike for their impetus. A gang of 50 wont last a minute against a mob of 200 P.Od regular people and less time against anyone who is actually trained with battle experience. When SHTF I want at least one vet with me.


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## mossberg500

Medelwr said:


> You might find that the "gangs" might rule for a short period of time but will get those who mean business (like Mossberg500) riled up and will end up spitted on a pike for their impetus. A gang of 50 wont last a minute against a mob of 200 P.Od regular people and less time against anyone who is actually trained with battle experience. When SHTF I want at least one vet with me.


50 so called men? Man, when I was overseas we would get into firefights with just our 10 man squad against hundreds of crazed, jacked up on drugs towel heads. And we usually got out with out a scratch. Let me at em and I'll have em screaming for mommy in no time. I hope SHTF, all the idiot's and wanna be gangbangers will be weeded out within no time.


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## WoadWarrior

I don't hope for a SHTF situation.... even if it will clean up some of the human excrement living near me. I just want to be prepared if it does.


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## Jerddd

The gangs will kill everyone, including each other. When they realize there's no authority to answer to, they're gonna do two things: loot and kill.


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## Irish

Gangs will be like target practice if such things happen they are not smart enough (90% of the time) to organize just run wild shooting and stealing there is hardly any tactical smarts to them what so ever!! So anyone that can stay calm and not get backed into a corner will be fine!! Not to mention not one of them has target practice or trains in any way and they will most ALL be so doped up anyways


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## fedorthedog

The last thing I read was the average actual gang member (not wanna be) had been in 7 gun fights. Combat is Darwinian the survivors learn. The thing that most of them have is no issue with hurting others. This is something many will have to overcome. Gangs make up less than one present of the population. The common thief and drug addict will be just as much of a problem as they meet up with friends to pillage. They will form into something like gangs until they are dead. You need to remember that these people live on the edge and prowl around as a way of life. they already have some of the skills required to survive.


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## jandor123

Very good point!
So, when the suckers are in front of you, and you have raised your weapon, dont bother to try to negotiate, just take a breath and fire, fire, fire.


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## Denton

jandor123 said:


> Very good point!
> So, when the suckers are in front of you, and you have raised your weapon, dont bother to try to negotiate, just take a breath and fire, fire, fire.


Skip the breath.


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## Lucky Jim

I like Kurt Russel's mindset when his peaceful little group comes under threat from a renegade military gang..


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## Irish

HA Jim I LOVE that movie!! Soldier!!


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## mikes69baja

Gangs will be a big issue when TSHTF. They are well armed, but they lack training and experience to use the weapons. Gangs steal weapons of all kinds. The weapons are not maintained and the new owners rarely stock pile ammo. More the reason you yourself should be armed and know tactics and how to use your weapons. Don't go out and buy your ar-15 and think you are good. That is not a weapon for beginners or casual shooters. Follow K.I.S.S. method and think defense.


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## Lucky Jim

jandor123 said:


> Very good point!
> So, when the suckers are in front of you, and you have raised your weapon, dont bother to try to negotiate, just take a breath and fire, fire, fire.


Yay ha ha ha..


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## ava8harrierusmc51

What my problem is how do I find someothers that my assist me in staying alive I have weapons some comm's ammo some food and a lot of know how. But being on a tight budget and foreseeing what is coming does not make me feel safe. All the people whom I do know seem to live in a world of closed mindness even after what has happened on the East Coast with that large storm that just happened even after the storms of 2008 people still don't believe that something big is coming to the USA and the rest of the world in the coming months. I try to stock up on items all the time but when you need to live day to day it's hard my main gaol is the my girlfriends kids have the tools that I have collected all that I have done over the years is not for me but for them so that they will have a chance so I'm hoping all the work money and time that I've put into it is not a waste of time. So to those out there I say with all my heart good luck be safe and trust only those whom put trust in you.


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## mulle46

There are gang members who enlist in the military to learn tactics, then come back and teach their other gang members. Gangs in the military has been a problem for years now, just not commonly reported about.


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## budmanz4u

I believe there will be new gangs and alliances that will gather aside from current gangs! Have you ever seen " The Book of Eli"? Perfect example! Maybe not as extreme, but close to it!


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## WoadWarrior

ava8harrierusmc51 said:


> What my problem is how do I find someothers that my assist me in staying alive


Ava... you've taken the first step. Stay on this forum and let the people get to know you. Over time, some will get to trust you... and maybe you guys can do some local activities together. As your trust grows.... these people may chose to include you in their groups... or may direct you to friends of theirs in your area.

But... be honest on this forum... about what you know and don't know... and how you feel about things. No prepper wants to open up and find out the person they have been dealing with has been the "good side" you've put on for the public to see. We can accept many things in people... and work around them... but only if you are who you say you are. WOW... I sound like my father. :-?


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## Hardknocks24

You kidding me right! They won't think twice about branching out to get what they need . If that means shooting you for the last case of water the will. Urban cities will be there main spot to claim new turf and getting new members to grow. The prisions will be at risk if the. Gaurds don't kill the main ones first, until there out of ammo then there nothing holding them back. If u have a band of people willing to stay and fight to keep what's left and rebuild then we stand a chance if not u better be stocked and loaded for the long haul.


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## UnknownCertainty

Unfortunately, I'm "stuck" in the city (Las Vegas). THANKFULLY I have a couple of routes that'll take me to the desert in a matter of minutes. If I can get out alive, that is. I know people will eventually come knocking, smashing windows, etc. but what I'm most concerned about is when I have to bug out. Because it's just me, I think being solo will help me get out of here, but what happens when I come across a group of other preppers who have bugged out? Who says they won't just shoot me because they're so worked up and not thinking clearly. What I mean is that a lot _seem_ to be prepared to bug out and hole up somewhere then lonely me comes walking up trying to find a place to survive and BANG! I'm dead. Haha. I always say that I'm trying to prepare as best I can, but I'll probably be like those idiots in the movies that are first to die. No, I don't immediately run outside when the power goes out thinking it's the breaker box. I can be paranoid so I check everywhere to make sure it's clear first. Haha.

Anyway, I'm sure we all can spin this "scenario" all sorts of ways and we won't know how it'll be until it really happens. But to answer the OP....immediately after a SHTF scenario I'm not concerned about gangs or anything like that since most will probably still be piecing everything together. However, once people start realizing that help isn't coming...things will probably turn ugly pretty fast. I'd like to be one to help restore order, but I do not want to be around (alone) when that initial craze hits.

I'd love to just uproot and start adjusting the country living. I've always felt that way since I was a kid....weird but true. But I'm born and raised here Vegas so it'll be a culture shock! Am I just destined to be doomed?  Haha.


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## shotlady

Yep certainty. I feel the same way.


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## kyletx1911a1

^^^ back to texas(lol)


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## midtnfamilyguy

I have been reading this thread for a while and have decided to pt in my thoughts about the law enforcement aspect that has been mentioned. I have and still active in law enforcement for 26+ years. The vast majority became police officers to help and that is a part of their psyche, that's the way they were raised and still live by. Most will go out of their way to help others, but with that being said, like all groups of people there are a small fraction that love the power that comes with the authority and weapon carrying. These are the ones you have to worry about.The friends i have that I discuss future survival with take it seriously and are preparing. We are preparing to take care of our families first and then others. We don't plan on using our skills to take from others unless the situation gets so bad that it dictates that response. When that happens any person will resort to that.Most law enforcement have various skills and training that can be useful and i suggest finding the GOOD ones to befriend and utilize their resources.


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## usav8er

bigdogbuc said:


> There is no doubt that there will be gangs and marauders, rape, pillage and plunder. However, I don't think it will last long. In a SHTF or WROL situation, the good folks like us, won't have to put up with the gangs and a non-functioning criminal justice system like we do now. We will simply be able to take care of the situation in an expeditious, permanent manner. And their friends too.


I have to disagree. It will be chaos at first, as expected, but a few days after the SHTF and food becomes scarce, these gangs (or groups of like-minded fools) will be desperately & violently looking for any and all booty they can scrounge even if it means breaking into your house and robbing you, or accosting you on the street. As the essentials become more and more scarce, the more violent these animals will become. Neighbor will turn against neighbor and it will be every man/woman/child for themselves.


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## shotlady

thats why its so important to know your neighbors have a bug out colony you can trust and work within. get rid of those who dont work and zap resources.
this is where decisions need to be made in advance.


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## Alpha-17

I think folks are wrong to say that any one thing will happen. I'm sure in some areas, the gangs will wipe themselves out, or the "good" people will do it for them. Attrition and lack of supplies will also play a major role. In others, however, the gangs will undoubtedly take over. It'll all depend on the quality of their leadership, their discipline (or whatever amounts to it in a gang), and their individual situation.


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## tacman605

Well over the last couple of days I have been going through the threads and reading what folks have to say. This particular thread caught my attention.

If we look at disasters that have happened in the past we can get a pretty good idea of what may take place in the future. Katrina is a good example. Yes there were good people trying to do the right thing in many cases but as time went on, mere hours in some cases, the situation fell apart.

Will marauding gangs, organized ones, be a problem? No more of a problem than fellow citizens loosely banding together to take what they want. When situations like this occur mob mentality takes over. There is little or no organizational structure other than simply someone yelling "Look flat screens" and they are off and running. As time goes on priorities will shift to food, water and essentials. The government may or may not be there to help, support, protect, feed and water the masses so it will come down to the haves and the have not's. The majority of looters and those committing crimes in the aftermath of disasters were not organized gangs but simply people taking advantage of the situation.

As has been stated unless you are eating cold chow or vacuum seal your home the masses will smell food, they will hear a generator, they will see a light in the darkness and so on. Now you become the peak of their interest. It would be easy, or easier, to confront, defend against or turn away 10 men armed with baseball bats demanding food than it would be for a woman alone with two hungry kids begging for water. Not everything is cut and dried.

It is great to speak of how someone could cut down the gang of attackers without thought to protect what they have but without the training, skillset and mindset to go with it you would not last long. An amateur can tattoo a professional at anytime. All it takes is a lucky shot from a kid with a .25 auto and you may be down for the count. Yes many times service members in small units have taken on dozens of insurgents and not suffered any injuries however Special Operations Forces have lost damn good operators to a single bullet fired from some illiterate Afghan high on opium.

Do not discount what was stated earlier in regards to gangs having training. Many do enlist in the armed forces for just that purpose. To take that one step further many of these guys have lived hard lives. They have been shot, stabbed, stomped and given the same in return. Outside of wartime how many here can say the same? In many cases the sight or threat of a gun would/could deter someone from causing you harm but all it takes is that one person who is not intimidated, scared or worried about what you have or what you say you will do to end your life it really does not make any difference to them.

Local LE, National Guard and First Responders will all fall under one command structure. After 9/11 the National Incident Management System (NIMS) and the Incident Command System (ICS) was put in place in order for cities and states to share resources and communications assets. Many LE, Fire and EMS units were given high tech communications gear and equipment and given access to much more. Just like in Katrina Private Contractors could/would be brought in to supplement those on the ground. They would answer only to those on a federal level and would bypass, for the most part, state and local command structures.

Depending on your definition of "Gang" you will be in for some hard choices. The gang may be what you picture or have seen on TV. Street thugs with cheap guns, bats and sporting colors or it could be a group from a few blocks over desperate, hungry and simply wanting to survive. Everyone will have to make their own decisions.


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## rickkyw1720pf

If the gangs rule then they deserve to rule. Take many big cities the people already decided to give up freedom (right to arms) for safety in which our forefather warned against. And in states like Kentucky where you have easy access to firearms, if they can't get enough people willing to fight any gang that comes along then the gang deserves to rule.


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## TxBorderCop

mulle46 said:


> There are gang members who enlist in the military to learn tactics, then come back and teach their other gang members. Gangs in the military has been a problem for years now, just not commonly reported about.


That is absolutely correct. Read a report from the Federal Gang/Drug Task Force out of LA. There are several gangs that practice military tactics. Three of these "gentlemen" were graduates of Ranger school - not just your average 11B, but Rangers, with all the training they receive.

So, some of you who scoff, you might be prepping, but get yourself some weapons training. Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Sig Arms Academy to name a few. You might find those Gang Bangers you think will kill themselves off will turn into wolf packs, prowling and growling. And they are better armed than a lot of third world militaries, but know how to actually USE their guns.


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## cannon

ava8harrierusmc51 said:


> What my problem is how do I find someothers that my assist me in staying alive I have weapons some comm's ammo some food and a lot of know how. But being on a tight budget and foreseeing what is coming does not make me feel safe. All the people whom I do know seem to live in a world of closed mindness even after what has happened on the East Coast with that large storm that just happened even after the storms of 2008 people still don't believe that something big is coming to the USA and the rest of the world in the coming months. I try to stock up on items all the time but when you need to live day to day it's hard my main gaol is the my girlfriends kids have the tools that I have collected all that I have done over the years is not for me but for them so that they will have a chance so I'm hoping all the work money and time that I've put into it is not a waste of time. So to those out there I say with all my heart good luck be safe and trust only those whom put trust in you.


There are more than a few folks out there in your situation. Some other folks are much better prepared in supplies with a plan to bug out of their city area but don't really have a pre staked out place to go.

Then there are folks like me who have land area in a rural location near L.A. and people in my situation could use some other folks on site if all goes wrong. We can't stay awake every hour etc.

With any luck these two group types will meet and see if the ideas and personalities click. If they do both sides gain. If there were preppers in L.A. that I knew and trusted. I'd be happy as can be to have them bug out to my place.


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## cannon

Gangs are criminal enterprises and one of the big advantages they have is a lack of social convention. Quicker to seize an advantage and attack, steal etc.

These people alone or in groups will be predatory and dangerous. Stay prepared and be ready and expect the unexpected.


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## vandelescrow

I'd say it depends on the class and values of the people living in your area. New Orleans/Katrina there was looting/shooting, The next hurricane came into Texas (Cant remember the name) no looting, okay a porno shop was looted but this was an isolated incident. Flooding in St Louis no looting, in fact all the communities involved with the Mississippi River flooding people came together and helped each other.


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## cannon

vandelescrow said:


> I'd say it depends on the class and values of the people living in your area. New Orleans/Katrina there was looting/shooting, The next hurricane came into Texas (Cant remember the name) no looting, *okay a porno shop was looted* but this was an isolated incident. Flooding in St Louis no looting, in fact all the communities involved with the Mississippi River flooding people came together and helped each other.


No T.V, radio or internet. Got to have something to help pass the time.


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## Verteidiger

When the gangs come up against our teams and clans, they will be facing people armed with better weapons, better optics, more ammo, better training, and who shoot very, very accurately.

They may come, but they won't come back.


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## assaultmanDoug

My personal opinion here... I think that we need to expand our definition of the term "gang". The current definition is that of an organized group of criminals. However in order to keep with the reason why this site is even here, in a SHTF situation there is no such thing as "law and order" correct? Social norms and disciplines go out the window and what was once seen as criminal (i.e. stealing food from a grocery store, breaking into a pharmacy to steal Rx meds for a sick family member, or vigilante justice on an individual discovered to be against the collective group) is now socially acceptable. I believe that "gangs" are going to be exactly what rule the streets. People less inclined to violence would like to call this the "village system" where groups of like minded and organized people come together, determine leadership and roles for all people involved in that group, and then proceed to do things that could be construed as "criminal".


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## Lattice

bigdogbuc said:


> There is no doubt that there will be gangs and marauders, rape, pillage and plunder. However, I don't think it will last long. In a SHTF or WROL situation, the good folks like us, won't have to put up with the gangs and a non-functioning criminal justice system like we do now. We will simply be able to take care of the situation in an expeditious, permanent manner. And their friends too.


In any given area there are a lot more of them than there are of us.

People by and large, like I've said before, are lazy weak creatures. They will align with whatever is easiest. Eventually they will die out when there is nothing else to loot. People like us will organize and defend. Not so much go out hunting gangs.


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## SSGT

mossberg500 said:


> They will run from my neighborhood when the neighbors and I get done with them. I don't think they want to mess with 8 Vet's and 3 former LEO's with lot's of guns.


Ditto Here Mossberg! Marines and Army vets that love their guns LOL!...Almost every house on the street!....Can you imagine the crossfire? Jeeze! Even at the ends of the 600 foot street....Perfect ambush! I gotta get a bunch of GMRS radios and put back for us come to think of it!


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## kyletx1911a1

TxBorderCop said:


> That is absolutely correct. Read a report from the Federal Gang/Drug Task Force out of LA. There are several gangs that practice military tactics. Three of these "gentlemen" were graduates of Ranger school - not just your average 11B, but Rangers, with all the training they receive.
> 
> So, some of you who scoff, you might be prepping, but get yourself some weapons training. Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Sig Arms Academy to name a few. You might find those Gang Bangers you think will kill themselves off will turn into wolf packs, prowling and growling. And they are better armed than a lot of third world militaries, but know how to actually USE their guns.


true this but for those that dont have the money to do this, then what?
I was blessed i served. So those things stayed with me. I have two daughters plus a 2 yr old grand son

I have no place to run, i am giving the women the basics 
But at the end end of the day GOD makes the final call.
But death comes to us all, my goal is to face the LORD and say
I did the best i could. The mind set is to survive but the key is
To find like people to stand with. But like other people have said
Ya cant do it all. But if i have to go i plan to take some with me
All that to say this learn your weapons shoot them, hit what you aim at
Tatics have not changed since dawn of time just the weapons,
Good fields of fire keep to your fire to your sector, if you can hold the high ground
Stick and move. But if you cant move (like me bad knees back,)
Dig in and prep as best you can, then (viva zappata better to die on your feet
Than to live on your knees) 
Now here is a thought? You are low on ammo momma has been killed girls have been killed
Just down to you and the two yr old grandson. Knowing that its about over
The rush is on !! What do you do?
Do you let them run on you and take the house and kill you and do things to the baby
Or do you kill your grand and make your final stand?
So when people say mind set on what one is willing to do dig deep and ask yourself 
What are you willing to do?
We can debate this all day but ask your self what is one willing to die for?


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## Artist prepper

I just started prepping and this thread caught my attention. Having a realistic grasp of human psychology I know no matter what there will be people who band together to take the resources of others in a massive crisis situation. The length of this situation will determine who these people are. In the beginning most of the gangs (Bloods, Crips etc.) will be extremely active given that they posses the mindset already to take what they want but will die out with in the first 6 months. The problem after that is those who are just average citizens banding together who are starving and dehydrated who will go out and take what they can from others by any means. In a worst case scenario of a permanent fall of society there will be the people like us who have trained themselves, and have a stockpile of guns and ammo but for whatever reason run short on supplies or experience to large of a crop failure that have already banded together will go out looking for those of us who were a bit better prepared and take from us what they need to survive. 

I think that most of us here are good people and in the case of permanent social fall would, if our resources ran would ask for help of those who have the resources before they decided to just take them by force, but at the same time I know that given long enough time with out food or water especially everyone will resort to cannibalism and use of force if they need to to survive.


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## Fuzzee

There have always been gangs and will always be gangs. That's something we can count on. The situation of what happens when shtf will decide what happen to the one's existing and whether they continue to exist, die, reform, expand or mutant. With every group of people whether good or bad there are people who are smart or not, leaders and followers, who choose their path by what life leads them to and the choices they make. In turn when society breaks down there are sure to be people who never turned to a life a crime and thuggery do so and some will either form new gangs or strengthen existing ones. There will be plenty of people dying and plenty left over to cause trouble as times goes on. The cities with there larger populations will be some of the most dangerous places to be. I don't think many here kid themselves about it, but there are areas now that are worse and better and there will be then. If the military is up and running I think martial law will be declared in the cities atleast and they'll be locked down for everyone looking to leave. For the good of people in them as well as people out of them. The country can not sustain the population regardless. It's not the same as centuries ago and the population is too large. Then the military will work to restore order and gangs of stupid thugs will find their not as tough as they thought once the leash is off to attack them. There will always be those smart individuals who can overcome in adversity and lead others not so smart and gangs will continue as they always have and people will have to deal with them.

People will want to leave the cities and some will, but when that happens people in the country will be forced to guard their area and stop the onslaught of refugees. Any gangs out on the roads rampaging will be met with resistance at some point. We look at the world now in how it appears to us with peaceful neighbors and some not, but when the leash comes off and times have gotten very bad people will pull together. They'll have to. There are a lot of people armed out in the country and a lot of them ex-military who will not be pushovers for a little roaming gang regardless of the training some may have. Town's will organize a security force of volunteers more than just their local Police/Sheriff same as they have in all of our history. People will toughen up because they have to and deal with what comes.


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## Alaska

Fact: Grocery stores only keep on hand what they sell in an average of 3 days. = do your self a favor and get running to any store out of your mind.
Fact: Gangs exist and do currently fight each other
Fact: Any person with starving family/kids will ponder and/or do thing sthey never thought they would do in a million years. A baby crying from hunger is a powerful motivator. Whether its a blue collar baby or an impoverished one makes no difference.

the one thing I dont believe I saw mentioned was the fact the gang members ALLREADY HAVE EXPERIENCE in doing all these things. = rape, murder and so forth.

Now as for them venturing out of the city, they will be going up against people (thats all of us) that are planning for this. And they will also be up against what every army since the beginning of time has been up against and that is logisitics. i.e supply line.

Sure they may do a few raids but good people will step up and take the fight to them with in a short time

IMHO regardless of them going after each other, one will still still come out the victor. 

Also a good chance you might,in a TEOTWAWKI event, see some genghis khan going on. = Join us or die


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## Smitty901

If it gets bad people will do what people do watch out for them self and the heck with others. It will remain that way until some type of order is restored. Gangs will try to take what they can by force. Those in the city have the most to deal with . Those with a large buffer area are better able to fend off such groups. They are also generally not the type to head off in to the country side. Not as long there are resources to grab in the city. We can't count on LEO now so we would not waste anytime worry about them if SHTF. I doubt any would be seen anywhere near by but they would be treated as any other threat.
Gangs wandering out into areas they are not known will not find welcome their number will go down quickly.
Once Anarchy sets in (NO POWER or Authority over), numbers will be thinned down in a worst case . Over time those that have managed to hang on and even thrive will start working together combine their group skills and resources spending their state of anarchy for periods of time in order to serve each others needs , tackle task to large or hard for one group alone. This in time will lead to a rebuilding of over all order in our world.


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## Elapid

I honestly think the area I live in, rural Mississippi, will have the gangs outgunned. That and the military members will be more organized and be able to ambush any gang banger's that show up. I don't think there are any homes around here that aren't well armed and outsiders will be dealt with.


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## MikeyPrepper

Nj will get there a$$ Kicked by gangs. I think we have the top 2 cities in the country... Trenton and Camden


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## Smitty901

I would not call it rule but they will prey on the sheep. Best to be a long way out of town the second it starts. Avoid bank, stores of any kind areas of town you know are bad any time, Government buildings ect
watch old films of the Watts riots and days of rage In Detroit you see what a fine job LE can do.
Keep in mind they have been edit to reflect The current PC content.


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## Dr. Prepper

drt4lfe said:


> Gangs as we know them are only possible now because the good people are not allowed to clean them up and out.....if SHTF they will either ban together or kill each other...then the real gangs ( good people protecting what they have ) will destroy the rest of them quickly....and what ever Police there is won't care or interfere....


I tend to agree with your post, drt4lfe. Inner city gangs are a very tiny part of our society and the hundreds of thousands of "good guys with guns" will easily wipe out the "bad guys with guns". Sure there will be some "good guy" bloodshed but the numbers really favor the non-gang people. And if someone ever thinks that the city gangs have the suburban and rural citizens out-gunned, they have never seen all the heavy artillery and equipment hidden in the rural hills of every state. The street gangs are uneducated little children compared to the organized rural folks I have met. Just my opinion.


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## MikeyPrepper

@Drt4lfe...Sounds perfect


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## fedorthedog

Gangs will not band together unless one is very week and cannot attempt to take over. They believe they are the chosen group and will act that way. The other thing is most are drunks or dopers. The party will be on they will get high and go find some sweet young thing to abuse. There nature is what it is. As long as they think they can take what they need they wont make a effort, as it gets bad and things are no longer available they will become more organized and more dangerous. So when the party start shoot accurately.


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## Watercanlady

I agree try to get out of the city as fast as possible...the gangs will lute the cities fast. I feel that by the time they are done with the cities the will be too weak to make it to the "country" ...


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## MikeyPrepper

i live about 10 min from nyc..i can just imagine


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## Watercanlady

We are 50 miles to the nearest large city, the only house in the mile on my side of the road. We just love it out here. Hubby used to commute 85 miles each way to work. Now retired....


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## Denton

Large Cities All Over America Are Degenerating Into Gang-Infested War Zones


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## Old Man

I live 120 miles from memphis were gangs are. The surpising thing that there is a town just 20 miles away that is start to have gangs. They are part of the memphis gangs. Gangs are start to branch out into rural areas too.


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## Lucky Jim

Dickhead politicians in Britain and America have cut police numbers and crime is rising, are they mad or what?


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## MikeyPrepper

Yea, gangs here are not too bad but can be a pain. Me and my family will be ok


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## Sideaction

For the first time in my life im seeing this as a realisic chance of happening. Now more than ever im fearing the goverment taking away my right to stand a chance and defend myself and my family. What if the libs get their way and pass a confiscation of firearm bill? Then what do we do? Any and all of these scenerios can take place if the gov strips our defense away from us. All my supplies could be taken from me and I will be left defenseless and more than likely become a statistic.


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## rice paddy daddy

Crime reports for the surrounding counties in 2012 came out over the weekend. Our county had 2 homicides last year - a murder/suicide.
I still carry when I go into town, though (one stoplight, 2000 people).
We used to live in South Florida, which is really one big city 100 miles long from south of Miami to Jupiter. Almost 20 years ago we were given the opportunity to re-locate during a corporate downsizing and took it. We had hoped, dreamed and prayed for quite a while to move to the country and get the heck out of crime central. I firmly believe that God answered our prayers. He has since enabled us to become mortgage and debt free. 
Ya'll in the cities, if you can't move, keep your powder dry.


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## MikeyPrepper

Crime is up...


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## Mr Ed

This thread brings up one thought I have had. What happens to the million plus behind bars? I assume they will get out somehow? The gangs have there own reinforcements- alot of them in fighting shape. I don't think I want my BOL near any sort of prison facility.


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## ekim

DUH, the big gang in Washington isn't going away, that's for sure, and trust me, they do have evil guns, but theirs are legal assault weapons!


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## MikeyPrepper

job are less, prices are up and gangs are more and more


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## AsteroidX

Gangs/Cartels have a very specific agenda and it is not looting and pillaging. So if you see someone beehaving like that feel free too double tap them because we dont want em.


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## MikeyPrepper

It def can happen


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## AsteroidX

You have to realize gangs/cartels which are more then loosely connected are worth a small military if used properly. With there proven history of being able to move consumables I would not put them on the shoot first ask questions later list. Id be more worried susie and johnny didnt prep for shit and are now hungry with a recently bought AR and a 9mm looking to take my stuff. See Johnny and Susie dont know what the hell they are doing which is scarier IMO.


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## Smitty901

If the economy fails and the checks stop coming. Nothing will happen.
Everyone will get together and organize community action groups . They will collect what each has and pass it out according to need. It will all be fair and everyone will except their share.
They will meet in the park and sing we shall over come until things get better. The true goodness of man alone will shine.
The actors in Hollywood will open their home to the homeless Harry Reid will invite those on the street into his home and feed them from his stash.
The Government will take care of it all.
The true light of the world will shine.
Good luck with that, I am preparing well if I am wrong so what.


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## inceptor

Smitty901 said:


> If the economy fails and the checks stop coming. Nothing will happen.
> Everyone will get together and organize community action groups . They will collect what each has and pass it out according to need. It will all be fair and everyone will except their share.
> They will meet in the park and sing we shall over come until things get better. The true goodness of man alone will shine.
> The actors in Hollywood will open their home to the homeless Harry Reid will invite those on the street into his home and feed them from his stash.
> The Government will take care of it all.
> The true light of the world will shine.
> Good luck with that, I am preparing well if I am wrong so what.


As we sing Kumbaya.


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## Gallo Pazzesco

bigdogbuc said:


> There is no doubt that there will be gangs and marauders, rape, pillage and plunder. However, I don't think it will last long. In a SHTF or WROL situation, the good folks like us, won't have to put up with the gangs and a non-functioning criminal justice system like we do now. We will simply be able to take care of the situation in an expeditious, permanent manner. And their friends too.


Well-stated.

Yes, a few good ambushes set for them when they come rumbling down the street, a few good night raids when they are getting all doped-up or liquored-up, and gangs will soon find that they are no longer protected by the law and that they will soon thereafter be an endangered species.


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## Smitty901

Gallo Pazzesco said:


> Well-stated.
> 
> Yes, a few good ambushes set for them when they come rumbling down the street, a few good night raids when they are getting all doped-up or liquored-up, and gangs will soon find that they are no longer protected by the law and that they will soon thereafter be an endangered species.


 Few quick lessons in MOUT , will even the odds quickly. We will skip the building clearing let them finish each other off.


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## Gallo Pazzesco

AsteroidX said:


> You have to realize gangs/cartels which are more then loosely connected are worth a small military if used properly. With there proven history of being able to move consumables I would not put them on the shoot first ask questions later list. Id be more worried susie and johnny didnt prep for shit and are now hungry with a recently bought AR and a 9mm looking to take my stuff. See Johnny and Susie dont know what the hell they are doing which is scarier IMO.


I think you are right to a certain degree. But I also believe there is a big difference between most gangs, inner city or not, and paramilitary cartels who are well-funded and well-equipped.

Now, the question remains, "with whom will most ally themselves?" Good or bad? And if it comes down to it, should everyone ally with someone or should most try to remain independent? To know the answer to that question one merely must know human behavior from a historical perspective.



clank said:


> bs, your neighbors aint prepped, they will be looters like the rest. 99.9 % will have no CHOICE but to loot, since not 1 in 1000 is properly prepped, not 1 in 100 even THINK that they are prepped, and believe me 90% of those who think that they are, can easily be proven very wrong. if you "think" people are going to "link up" and defend anything or anyone as a group, , in this day and age, you are deluded


Human nature dictates the urge to "link-up," as we referred to it in the military. It's an inbred, genetic built-in urge because, quite simply, humans, for the most part, do not like going-it alone.

Cave men "linked-up" and thus villages were established, animals were domesticated and crops were planted.

Now, I've no idea what your neighbors are all about, or where you live for that matter. But down here, where I live in the South, we're mostly farmers and small businessmen living out in the country on dirt roads. We've made it a point to cultivate neighbors and friendships over generations. We plan for emergencies - everything from fires to storms to power outages to ... well, strangers in places where they are not supposed to be.

Our little road, where we neighbors are acres apart, sounds like a young war on Saturday practice day once a month, twice in March and August. We all get together and shoot, make a picnic out of it, talk plans, etc.

So, again, I've no idea what your neighbors are like but based upon your post friend, I'd probably consider moving were I you - which I'm not ... just sayin'.


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## Gallo Pazzesco

clank said:


> when shtf, gold and currency won't mean a thing, diseases will be everywhere, so "organized" gangs won't be together for long, if at all. They don't know jack about shtf survival, other than to gang up on others and take their stuff. they'll be fighting with each other, over booze, dope, tabacco, women, cause that's the sort of creatures that they are.


I agree with the first part ... disagree with the second part.

Think about the simple definitions of "gang" and "cartel." Do you know those definitions?

Basically, they represent a number of people who, by choice, choose to form a group or gang. So you would have to be somewhat inclined to believe that gangsters, post shtf, would be far more prone to "link-up" and form groups than would others.

And gangsters, by nature, are survivalists. What they do, they do to survive.

I believe you are far too dismissive of the threats gangs might pose post shtf clank. Might I encourage you to give the matter a bit more thought?


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## inceptor

Gallo Pazzesco said:


> I agree with the first part ... disagree with the second part.
> 
> Think about the simple definitions of "gang" and "cartel." Do you know those definitions?
> 
> Basically, they represent a number of people who, by choice, choose to form a group or gang. So you would have to be somewhat inclined to believe that gangsters, post shtf, would be far more prone to "link-up" and form groups than would others.
> 
> And gangsters, by nature, are survivalists. What they do, they do to survive.
> 
> I believe you are far too dismissive of the threats gangs might pose post shtf clank. Might I encourage you to give the matter a bit more thought?


All you have to do is look around. Many gangs are so organized they have chapters in multiple cities.

Cartels are even more organized. The mafia my have started the organization but others have come in and made them look like small time players. The mexican cartels, the chinese and others have organizations that rake in millions of dollars. Like someone posted earlier, if gun confiscation does happen then the cartel's will fill the void. In a shtf scenario, cartels and gangs will look at the profit potential and link together to survive if they have to.


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## MikeyPrepper

there will be group and I'm sure riots so pick your friends wisely


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## jandor123

Have you folks seen this? Not sure how I feel about it? I think they will get raked over the coals in the media...

Patriotic Group To Build Armed 'Defensible' Neighborhood Fortress | CNS News


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## inceptor

jandor123 said:


> Have you folks seen this? Not sure how I feel about it? I think they will get raked over the coals in the media...
> 
> Patriotic Group To Build Armed 'Defensible' Neighborhood Fortress | CNS News


Not only that, the gov will take them out sometime to prove a point.


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## Smitty901

jandor123 said:


> Have you folks seen this? Not sure how I feel about it? I think they will get raked over the coals in the media...
> 
> Patriotic Group To Build Armed 'Defensible' Neighborhood Fortress | CNS News


 Just the kind of thing DHS was reorganized to do. Even if they break no laws they will go after them.


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## jandor123

Yep, Let one little thing happen and DHS will find a reason. They will liken it to Waco or the Colorado city Warren Jeffs FLDS cult.


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## Buff Driver

I think the gangs will operate until there is no more food/water for them to steal and then they will integrate into the rest of the people that have survived to that point or die .


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## ekim

The biggest gang will be going strong, that's the federal government. Most other gangs can not compete with them, as they have the money, guns, intel and no morals to live by.


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## GTGallop

In my experience, people tend to naturally clump together in a crisis. They unofficially form little groups of people from 4 to 15. Whether they realize it, they go through a process called forming, storming, norming, performing.

*Forming*: This is the initial coming together where people begin to realize that there is a symbiosis in a group. Some are good at cooking, others good at fixing, some provide protection. This is a benign stage as there is usually high energy, low conflict and a general happiness in the group.

*Storming*: This phase is entered into as people become weary and sleep deprived. The mental fatigue of survival exacerbates this stage. This is when a hierarchy is hashed out and usually some sort of default leader emerges. People are starting to learn what is needed and what is expected. Here we see high energy still and high stress or high conflict as group members sort out the pecking order. This is a volatile stage and we will revisit it in a moment.

*Norming*: Once we have settled into a routine of sleeping and waking and established a pecking order we move into Norming - where things begin to normalize. People have accepted their new circumstances and are now beginning to function like a well oiled machine. Also many of the initial needs like repairing storm damage or earth quake damage or what ever large scale SHTF issue happened to cause the displacement has been dealt with accordingly. Here we see energy levels drop off. People are getting use to the new diet (much less calories) and they are learning the efficiencies of their new lifestyle and working smarter, not harder. We also see lower stress and lower conflict. This is the formation of a village or an extended survival family.

*Performing*: Now we are getting somewhere. We are starting to see a mastery of the survival life and a return to a more civilized manner of living. It may still be in tents or lean to's and eating out of one single pot, but by this time you are seeing the fruits of long term labor like crops. Survivors in this stage are become more self aware as survivors and are starting to refocus their situational awareness. This can become a time of high energy and low conflict internally - but externally is different.

If you look at these four stages any group or team can cycle through them on a continual basis. You might go through all 4 stages FSNP just when bugging in for a week - then you decide it is time to hit the road and you go through FSNP in transit. When you get to your new location FSNP is a natural progression again. If you only look at FSNP in a clinical laboratory setting then it is easy to miss some of the delicate sides of these cycles.

FSNP happens at different speeds for different groups or teams. You may have people who are tight neighbors and get along very well, or have an excellent leader - that can speed up the cycles and progress the group to Performing at a quick pace. Or you may find yourself in an airport full of strangers in a town other than your own when the SHTF. Get home bags don't work when you are 2000 miles out and civilization just crumbled. New people who have no knowledge of each other may find it hard to work together. That can draw out the FSNP cycle.

Here is the real danger - during the storming phase, some times members are ejected and some times you take on new members. Members who feel slighted or that the hierarchy they are settling into is beneath them may sell the group out at night for what they perceive is a better deal in a rival gang. Do not under estimate the possibility of being killed in your sleep by a friend in the storming stage. Trust no one until you have been all the way through all four cycles or phases.

Also, in the performing stage, the group realizes often times that they are getting stronger now and could use more resources to improve their lot in life. That means acquisition and that usually means taking it from another owner - by barter or by force. I find that people who had good manners in the pre-SHTF world will have the same manners in the post-SHTF world. But look at a Walmart or shopping mall on Black Friday. These are the people you will be competing against for survival. Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large numbers - especially stupid people. They are more resilient than you think. If they didn't roll over when some one was selling flat screen TV's and they fought to the bitter end for a Call of Duty game, imagine their motivation when they are hungry, scared, panicked, and living off of adrenaline for days. Could they be Smigel from Lord of the Rings? Maybe. Could they be the Zombie Hoard we hear so much about - brain dead but fully animated bodies? Probably. People panic and riot at a moments notice and for trivial things. Imagine the dangers of these people when the SHTF. Imagine them in their own groups going through FSNP. Do you want them to get to Performing before you do?

Yes.
Absolutely.
There will be gangs.
Tribes.
Hoards.

What we do to each other when things fail will make the Mongol Army look like a Disney attraction.

_Note - If you are interested in Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing - Google it. It is actually a business concept about teams at work but I have observed it in survival situations and adapted some of the ideas behind it to show relevance here. It is an excellent business lesson and is based more on sociology and psychology than any business lessons I've seen. It really speaks about how to get people to work together efficiently._


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## Lucky Jim

GTGallop said:


> ..Do not under estimate the possibility of being killed in your sleep by a friend in the storming stage. Trust no one until you have been all the way through all four cycles or phases..


Yeah, when bellies get empty your friends will happily kill and eat you, it's happened in shipwreck/ air crash/ explorer groups etc plenty of times.
Hopefully the gangs will eat each other..


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## Smitty901

Just don't come with in 1000 yards of the compound. No madder who you are.


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## AsteroidX

I think the definition of "gang" is what were talking about here. The gang is the mob of individuals trying to get at my preps.


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## ekim

AsteroidX said:


> I think the definition of "gang" is what were talking about here. The gang is the mob of individuals trying to get at my preps.


Like I stated, the federal government!


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## Carp614

There are actually plenty of real world examples you can look into if you want to get a sense for what would happen WROL. 

Many countries in Africa are partly or completely run by warlords. If you want to eat, you do what they say. They constantly fight each other over territory and resources. In this environment resources are waisted at an astonishing rate. Corruption is the norm, roadblocks every few miles for the locals, etc.

Post Katrina situation reports are useful as well. That was essentially a WROL situation; Lawlessness, rape, murder, looting & roving gangs extracting resources from the haves via road blocks and other means

The fundamental problem is this: you are one person with two hands. You can only shoot so many targets before being overun by the mob. That is why I plan to move as a group with people who I can trust with my life and the lives of my family (and vice versa). Those are relationships...that is why community matters. ONly a community can stand up to a mob/gang.


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## Lucky Jim

Carp614 said:


> ..Many countries in Africa are partly or completely run by warlords. If you want to eat, you do what they say. They constantly fight each other over territory and resources. In this environment resources are waisted at an astonishing rate. Corruption is the norm, roadblocks every few miles for the locals, etc..


Yeah it's a jungle out there, even the local African villagers are morally degenerate.
For example in a TV docu last year a team of health workers fronted by Star Wars actor Ewan McGregor went into a remote corner of the stinking Congo to give free vaccinations to the kids, yet the villagers also demanded food and money off them before they'd take them further in canoes!

And there was a big hoo-ha in the news a few years ago when it was discovered that a lot of the big cash raised by Bob Geldof for African famine relief was being siphoned off by warlords to buy guns!


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## Puppage

davidpsc said:


> I mean really, gangs have large numbers and weapons. But there are more people that would want to restore order when the shtf that would outnumber the gangs.


Most people, IMHO, think the "other" guy will take care of it. Consequently, most do nothing.


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## cecollie

My feeling is no one really knows what the outcome would be of a major economic collapse so all we can do is speculate. I live in the country and I think it's "unlikely" that gangs would make it to where I am, but I don't know that. I know that while most people in the area are pretty heavily armed, I don't know that they will all turn Rambo and take everyone out in the first 24 hours of a marauding group's arrival in the area. We all know gangs exist. It's also been mentioned that others who have not prepped may become a problem as they become desperate. We just don't know how this will all play out and I wouldn't be too quick to assume that things will just get wrapped up quickly because everyone around them is armed, ex-military or LEOs.


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