# Experiment, Turning generator time into hours of light



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok this will be be sort of 3 test in one,, I got some gas that is about a year and a half old. 
I put stabilizer when it went into storage. We'll see if it is still good. 
I have some testing strips that I will use to check the gas with so we know for sure if it is good or not.
If anyone wants I can list the name brands of everything we use and some prices as well. 

OK this is what we know: We now know that we can get about 100 to 200 hours of light from a charged up car battery
and one or two bright SMD bulbs that will really light up a room. We want to see how long does it take to charge
up a battery using a small battery charger and a small 2 stroke $99 Harbor Freight Generator. 
And how much gas will it take? Then we can figure out how much gas it would take to light up a room 10 hours
a day for a year using one bulb and how much for a year using two bulbs. 
I will be starting this test in the morning (or when my lazy but gets up) 
This will also tell us how much generator time it takes to get 100 hours of light.
I will be measuring the gas by the cup

If you have any question or have a suggestion to modify this test to gather even more information
now is the time to speak. 

We will not be using a deep cycle battery for a few reasons when your running the battery all the way dead
a deep cycle is not a good one to use. A car battery is much better. 
And we want this to be like post SHTF "Use what you can get your hands on."
You won't be buying a new deep cycle battery at the store. Probably the best you will be able do is to 
scavenge a car battery. Might want to use your own so you don't get your silly head blown clean off. 

Remember no stores the only resources you will have is what you can figure out on your own.

GTGallop helped me come up with this experiment so if it turns to crap I'm going to blame him


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

No lead acid battery should be discharged to less than a 20% charge. The only difference between deep cycle and your car battery is the amount of space between the bottom of the plates and the floor of the battery. That space allows room for the metal that flakes off the battery when you charge it and discharge it. The faster you do either the more material is shed from the plates. The automotive battery will short out internally from the stuff that is shed - the deep cycle battery will not. A battery that is completely discharged will take a reverse charge from sitting in a discharged condition for even a short time. You have to overcome that reverse charge before the battery will charge again.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I also read that deep cycle batteries have less plates but thicker plates because they are not meant to give a big burst of amperage used to start an engine. The car battery has more plates but much thinner for that burst of power. Deep cycle give less amperage for much longer period of time.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Well, if that were true then why would golf cart and trolling motors use deep cycle batteries - both application run motors. The number of plates are governed by the amount of amp hours. The plates are all the same thickness because the electrolyte has to flow through them. Most deep cycle batteries have a higher amp hour rating than an automotive battery of the same physical size because they use more plates in the stack. The internal connectors between the cells are also heavier because they are typically run at higher charge rates than automotive batteries. The drain on a battery from starting an engine is very low - 1/10 of a minute at about 100 amp maximum. 1/600 of an hour at 100 amps = 1/6 amp hour. The auto batteries are then recharged right away at a very gentle rate. They are never drained because the alternator keeps the battery charged the whole time the car is in use. The deep cycle batteries are better for any long term discharge use. You do have to pay for the added structure but without it your auto battery will last less than half the time that the deep cycle battery will - by last I mean before failure of the battery.


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

OK here we go,,,,, First test we will see if the fuel stabilizer I used about 1 1/2 years worked or not.
I'll be using some testing things I picked on eBay a while back to test it.

I thought these might come in handy in a year or two after TSHTF to test fuel if someone has
fuel to trade. I picked them up on eBay for $5 I got 4 packages




Ok the fuel tested good. So the fuel stabilizer worked. 
it was called stalbel I think I got it at wally mart I can't remember what it cost.
So the first test is a %100 pass.-- cool

Ok so this is the $99 generator from Harbor Freight we will be using it is small and
is a 2 stroke. It sounds like a weed eater running the las time I used it I ran it dry of gas
I think I will just put 1 cup of fuel in it to see how long it will run on just that. 
This little guy is really good on gas. I hope I don't have to pull my brains out to get it started. 

ok I'll be back to post when I get everything going.

We will be using a Small Montgomery Wards battery charger. No pic's of it
it's sort of nasty looking I ran it over with my 4 wheeler but it still works
and the gauge still works if you "tap" on it it will charge at 10 or 2 amps.

To above post:
Yes this is all true about deep cycle batteries but if you are going drain them all the way like we 
are doing a car battery will take it with not much damage to the battery. If you drain a deep cycle 
all the way down to "0" it really takes a toll on the battery they won't last long at all doing this.


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Houston we have a problem,,,,,, This generator won't start "FAIL" I'll look at it later tonight.
If I can't get it going we see how long it takes to charge up the battery using a 100 watt solar panel 
and a cheap controller. I'm trying to do what I would if this was post SHTF and that's what I would do next
Remember Post TSHTF no stores, no grid, and no one to help my silly butt. 
Yea I'm up the creek now. I blame GTGallop for this stupid experiment "Fail" after all it was mostly his idea. LOL

Ok Ok I got it going. It has a rocker switch with a "O" on one side and a "l" on the other I thought that
the "O" was for "ON" geeeezee I blame the Canada's metric system for this outrage. 
What ever happened to a switch that just says Off and ON ? 
anyways first after turning the switch to "ON" one pull and it was running.---My bad-- 
I took a jelly jar and put one cup of water in it and market it. I'll be using that to measure the gas
I set the timer on my stove soon as it started so we will know how long it has been to run out a cup
of fuel and how long to charge the battery back up. 
I guess that I need to be smarter than the Stupid Switch 
I have the charger on 10 amps might as well go for it.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Golf carts and trolling motors don't need or take a burst of energy/power. The burst referenced the starter on a gas engine. That starter has a high amp draw.

BTW, I use deep cycle batteries as back up power for my 2m/440 radios. I blew a power supply once so I did a test. I ran my radio using normal operating conditions. I used medium power (15w) and talked on the local repeater for 2 weeks. I never did drain the battery.


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Yea you guys are right I use the deep cycle batteries for storing power for my solar setup. But they don't go below maybe 11.8
volts and I usually keep them above 12 volts as much as I can.
Oh, check it out got a picture of my ******* set up. 
I got to get a camera or even a camcorder and post on you tube so you guys can see what's going on.
I didn't even know I had this picture. But it's a currant one

The deep cycles are the way to go for a slow steady draw just like you said. 

I thought this came out OK for a first time try at a solar set up I need to rearrange the batteries
I'm thinking of going with packs of 24 volt set ups soon as I get some more batteries.
You can see that 1500 watt 3000 surge inverter I was talking about in the other post

I know some of the cables on the batteries look a little to long but I only use 24" cables (except the inverter)
on everything. That way if I ever have a problem everything interchanges I keep a few spares.
In the summer like now with the long bright sunny days I can run all the lights and small stuff
in the house all day and night no problem. But not so much in the winter when it's overcast a lot
and the days are shorter. sometimes I need to fall back on the SMD bulbs for all day running. 
I have got some more panels I need to get put up. right now I have more battery than solar
out put.-- right now I have 300 watts of solar panels I have 2-265 watt panels to put up 
that should give me 3 times the charging power I have now.
I will go from 300 watts to 830 watts


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

inceptor said:


> Golf carts and trolling motors don't need or take a burst of energy/power. The burst referenced the starter on a gas engine. That starter has a high amp draw.
> 
> BTW, I use deep cycle batteries as back up power for my 2m/440 radios. I blew a power supply once so I did a test. I ran my radio using normal operating conditions. I used medium power (15w) and talked on the local repeater for 2 weeks. I never did drain the battery.


Inceptor,
Golf carts use the same or bigger motors as your starter motor but instead of cranking an engine for a few seconds they power the vehicle for hours. Your starter motor draws considerably less power than a golf cart climbing a small grade or accelerating from a stop. The trolling motor is smaller but is under constant load for the hours of use that it gets. 
Your 15 watts at 12 volts is only 1.25 amps. Any battery would handle that. I worked with industrial equipment that used deep cycle batteries with draws of well over 300 amps for short periods of time and a constant draw of well above 20 amps. Deep cycle batteries are all we used. Granted some of the battery packs were in excess of 4000 pounds but to get the current we needed with the amperage capacity it takes a lot of battery.


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok The battery is charged up it took 1 1/2 hours to really top it off good 
And about 6 cups of gas. this thing sounds like a weed eater running. (drove me nuts) 

So,,,,,, 6 cups of gas gives us about 100 hours of light. If we run the lights for 10 hours a night
how much gas do we need for 1 month? And how much gas will we need to have a years worth of 
light? Anyone want to do the math here? 

Note: And we now know that gas is good for 1 1/2 years with stabilizer.

Next experiment,, using a small inverter how long will a 100 watt cree light bulb last on one car battery/
lets find out. Somebody do the math on the years worth of gas


----------



## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

10 hours a night- 100hrs gets you 10 nights...

So 18 cups of gas for a month, 216 cups for a year... 1 gallon is 16 cups- so just shy of 14 gallons of gas for a year worth of light...

I'm more interested in the trickle charge approach. I'd hate to have a noisy generator running if I could avoid it. Best to not give away that kind of intel IMO.


----------



## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

Also, do you really need 10 hours a night of light? I mean you're gonna sleep for what? 5-8 hours depending on your needs?


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Good point, maybe just security lights set on motion sensors?


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Yea,, And keep in mind if you only used one bulb you could get twice the light hours.
So if you ran one bulb you could get 200 hundred hours of light for the same amount of gas.
1 year of lights for 7 gallons does that sound right?

And yes you could do better if you didn't use the lights for 10 hours each night


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Ok next lets test a 100 watt cree bulb we will be using a Cobra 400/ 800 watt inverter for the 120 volt power.
This one is on eBay for 29.95 


And this is a cree bulb like the one we will be using


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

pharmer14 said:


> 10 hours a night- 100hrs gets you 10 nights...
> 
> So 18 cups of gas for a month, 216 cups for a year... 1 gallon is 16 cups- so just shy of 14 gallons of gas for a year worth of light...
> 
> I'm more interested in the trickle charge approach. I'd hate to have a noisy generator running if I could avoid it. Best to not give away that kind of intel IMO.


 Well if you wanted to hide in stealth mode you could use a 100 or maybe even a 50 watt solar panel and let the sun shine in a window on it.
That set up would run about a little under $200 if you went with a 100 watt panel


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

That inverter is a modified sine wave inverter? You might want to check to see if your bulbs ar compatible with it. It uses a stepped wave form that actually puts more power through the load than a true sine wave inverter. I know that motors will burn out using that kind of inverter (and they make a vibrating noise that will drive you batty). Don't use it with electronic equipment either it is not good for the equipment - that is why I question the use of LED bulbs with it.


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

PaulS said:


> That inverter is a modified sine wave inverter? You might want to check to see if your bulbs ar compatible with it. It uses a stepped wave form that actually puts more power through the load than a true sine wave inverter. I know that motors will burn out using that kind of inverter (and they make a vibrating noise that will drive you batty). Don't use it with electronic equipment either it is not good for the equipment - that is why I question the use of LED bulbs with it.


 Nope it's not a modified sine wave inverter,, I use a 1500/3000 watt modified wave inverter with my solar set up for the house
But this is a simulation of post SHTF Walmart is closed were going to see what we can do with what we got.
We might burn something up maybe. Maybe not, We'll see then we will know for sure. 
If it won't work we need to know now not later. Might be a big FAIL

Thanks for the pointer,, Your right that's the right way but all my experiments are done like post SHTF use what ever you can find.
The most it can cost is $40 and this information might make a difference in my or someones else's survival. 
I'm going to bed we will see what we can destroy in the morning.

But if your going to get your stuff ahead of time do like PaulS says and get the right stuff.
OK PaulS your job is to point out what is the right way to do things it might help the people that are 
gathering up stuff ahead of time. If that's OK with you. My job will be to just rig it. 
cool with you? I don't even know what a stepped wave from thingy is. 
PaulS is going to be our tech guy. We will make a great team Yeeee Hawwwwww

I will start a new thread in the morning for this


----------



## omegabrock (Jun 16, 2014)

budgetprepp-n said:


>


i have no idea what im looking at but it looks fun


----------



## omegabrock (Jun 16, 2014)

budgetprepp-n said:


> Ok The battery is charged up it took 1 1/2 hours to really top it off good
> And about 6 cups of gas. this thing sounds like a weed eater running. (drove me nuts)
> 
> So,,,,,, 6 cups of gas gives us about 100 hours of light. If we run the lights for 10 hours a night
> ...


of course, you'll get diminishing returns if you don't keep it constantly running. slight, but over the course of a month it would be noticeable right?


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

omegabrock said:


> i have no idea what im looking at but it looks fun


 ******* terms ,, No hi tec talk 
That's easy.. the gray box on the left is a controller that's the part that takes the raw electric 
from the panels and makes it a usable 12 or 24 volt electric



The wires from left to right on the bottom of the controller go like this:
The black two wires all the way on the left are the wires from the solar panels
The next set (black and red going downward) go to the batteries for charging them.
The next two are 12 volt output and they run to anything that doesn't have a huge load draw and runs on 12 volts (like 12 volt lights)
the last wire the gray one goes to the information display that's over the controller and to the right a little it lets me know whats going on
and it's sort of fuel gauge to let me know how much electric I have in the batteries 
six wires,, not that much to it.

The long black box under the switches is an inverter it changes 12 volts DC power (battery juice) to usable AC 120 volts for running the regular
stuff like radios, TV, computer, regular house lights stuff like that

The switches above the Inverter switches all my small stuff like I just mentioned over from the grid to solar power.
I pretty much run all my lights and small stuff all the time on solar. Lights don't take much electric but they are a big 
part of our bill because we use them so much.

does this help?


----------



## omegabrock (Jun 16, 2014)

budgetprepp-n said:


> ******* terms ,, No hi tec talk
> That's easy.. the gray box on the left is a controller that's the part that takes the raw electric
> from the panels and makes it a usable 12 or 24 volt electric
> 
> ...


that was actually a great description and something i think i could do just by your explanation lol.
a couple clarifying questions. 
the batteries - those are connected in series im assuming?
the 12 volt output - like a car charger? but just hooked up with the positive and negative wires or do you have to have a different type of plug?


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

omegabrock said:


> that was actually a great description and something i think i could do just by your explanation lol.
> a couple clarifying questions.
> the batteries - those are connected in series im assuming?
> the 12 volt output - like a car charger? but just hooked up with the positive and negative wires or do you have to have a different type of plug?


No, They wired in parallel + to + and -to - straight 12 volts.

Yes the 12 volt out put is like a car charger.
yes and just plan old wires + and - right to the batteries


----------



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

omegabrock said:


> of course, you'll get diminishing returns if you don't keep it constantly running. slight, but over the course of a month it would be noticeable right?


 That's good question.. I have no clue. PaulS might be the man to answer that question he's good at calculations and that kind of stuff.


----------



## omegabrock (Jun 16, 2014)

oh ok, i see the cables now. i didnt see the connections earlier. 

going to have to read up on some of the other energy posts before i ask any more questions. don't want to ask the same questions that have been answered over and over


----------

