# Is Russia defending Syria a bad thing?



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

More than most I am pro Israel and defending it.

More then most I am all for pre emptive military action when its clear the enemy will end up on our streets if left alone.

I don't like evil dictators, and would arm people that want to rise up against them, 

but in the case of Syria; they are fighting ISIS largely; yes I know there are some moderates fighting Assad in Syria too
but they are clearly negligible and unable to win the fight or hold the country. 

In the case of Syria isn't Russia really going to be fighting ISIS an isn't it better for all that someone fight this organization before they bring their sharia to our shores?


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

Who are Russia's S-300 anti aircraft missiles to be used against?

ISIL has no Air force. Hizbollah, Iranian forces, and Assad need cover against the IDF.

Putin warns Israel off targeting Iranian targets in Syria

Russia moved it's biggest Ballistic Missile boomer submarine to Syria.

China moved that old aircraft carrier it bought from Ukraine and it's fighter aircraft are being transshipped there via Iran & Iraq.

Mideast: USA is out, Russia is in.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Russia isn't fighting isis because they are concerned about the world. They are in Syria to better "their" interests. It's just a cover to focus power into the region. 

Yes it's a very bad thing. They are buddies and selling arms to Iran, now Syria and Iraq will be next. Heck in a couple months they will control the whole area. While we will all be worried about what trump says next. Smooth move Putin.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

A repeat of the Iran Iraq war. No wait. I'm confused.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

As most of the terrorists I fought were Syrian, I hope the problem fixes itself.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The problem is that the U.S. has destabilized the situation, from North Africa to the Middle East. The government created the situation. Not only that, but are responsible for the terrorist groups. Obama has no intention of actually doing a thing about any of them.

Here, we have Russia stepping into the situation. While there, I am sure it will go after IS. But, what then, and what else?

Where is this putting Israel? The U.S. in no longer its friend, and Russia certainly is not. Furthermore, how is Israel supposed to protect itself from the Iranian threat with Russia right there?

None of it is good.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Here's how it needs to play out, and Lord do I hope it does...

Obama is inept, so he won't do a thing.
Putin is power hungry and needs to keep the Arabs sending oil to his country.
Putin will move on ISIS, hopefully with unyielding force.
If he can put down ISIS, his buddy Assad will send him cheap oil.
If Russia decides to make a power move on the oil industry by taking over interests for itself in the ME, Trump/Cruz as new president of the US opens the floodgates of our own oil interests, and ruins the market for decades with cheaper oil and natural gas than the Arabs can produce it. They all buy from us, we control the oil interests of the world for the next half century while we wait for Putin to die.

That's my dream, anyways.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Russia authorizes airstrikes by Russian planes in Syria. They also say they are the only ones now allowed to do airstrikes in Syria.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/30/politics/russia-syria-airstrikes-isis/


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

What Chipper said and Kauboy's dream. 

Oh, and I hope they turn the whole sandbox to glass. God will Save Israel, it is written.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Agreed slippy. What Kauboy and Chipper said. Nice plan Kauboy and I would prefer to see it work that way as well. Clearly Putin has more sand and is way to shrewd for Oblunder. Putin has an agenda and it's not just Syria, as we all know. I always thought WWIII would begin in the middle east, and now all the players are present. I hope all that sand makes pretty glass.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

1. Let Russia have it.
2. Obama is directly responsible for the current state of affairs in the Mid East
3. Not ONE MORE DROP of American blood should be wasted on that hellhole.
4. I am a wary friend of Israel. They are not always our friend, and have American military blood on their hands. As in their unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty, sailing in international waters, which killed or wounded much of its crew. Look it up. They killed my Brothers In Arms, and as such, I don't trust them.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> 1. Let Russia have it.
> 2. Obama is directly responsible for the current state of affairs in the Mid East
> 3. Not ONE MORE DROP of American blood should be wasted on that hellhole.
> 4. I am a wary friend of Israel. They are not always our friend, and have American military blood on their hands. As in their unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty, sailing in international waters, which killed or wounded much of its crew. Look it up. They killed my Brothers In Arms, and as such, I don't trust them.


You are a moderator? You don't act like one. With no due respect: Pi$$ off.

Today, PUTIN BOMBED THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY NOT ISIS.
Today, RUSSIA ORDERED THE US WARPLANES OUT OF SYRIA. See now who the S-300 anti aircraft systems are there to target?
As the precise moment the very existence of Israel hung in the balance:
The USS Liberty was ordered into an active warzone at the precise moment Israel launched it's make or break surprise attack on the Egyptian air force!
Idiotic move by a dumb ass unnamed US commander. That story has been kept alive by an Anti US Anti Israel Arab oil barons who finance annual meetings of one Liberty crew member from that ship and host Arab speakers attend calling for the destruction of Israel. That is the most anti US anti Israel arabic propaganda group ever created.

Look it up? Oh yeah google the internet and find the truth. Rice paddy, you have completely lost any semblance of the "Moderator" fig leaf you once had.

You are about as pro Israel as Iran!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Seriously?
What purpose does personally attacking a member have?

How about you post your reasons for disagreement, and leave it at that.
Let discussion continue, leave the childish bickering out of it.

In case that's all for you, happy trails HVS.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Seriously?
> What purpose does personally attacking a member have?
> 
> How about you post your reasons for disagreement, and leave it at that.
> ...


Nah, I wouldn't ban him for childish behavior.
Others might, though.:joyous:


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> You are a moderator? You don't act like one. With no due respect: Pi$$ off.
> 
> Today, PUTIN BOMBED THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY NOT ISIS.
> Today, RUSSIA ORDERED THE US WARPLANES OUT OF SYRIA. See now who the S-300 anti aircraft systems are there to target?
> ...


USS Liberty Veterans Association
USS Liberty Memorial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> You are a moderator? You don't act like one. With no due respect: Pi$$ off.
> 
> Today, PUTIN BOMBED THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY NOT ISIS.
> Today, RUSSIA ORDERED THE US WARPLANES OUT OF SYRIA. See now who the S-300 anti aircraft systems are there to target?
> ...


I have a better idea want-to be----why don't you piss- off and leave RPD alone he's the real deal. everyone can have an opinion.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

Wikipedia? That is the LAST place to find the true facts!

Nice to see you can type USS Liberty into a search engine.

Now file a FOIA request on the classified US military report


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

let Russia mess them up, someone better those idiots are out of control.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

HVS? No damn need for you attacking RPD. Make your point and move on.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

Prepared One said:


> HVS? No damn need for you attacking RPD. Make your point and move on.


Anytime anything happens near Israel, The old anti Israel propaganda campaign is trotted out by anti Israel folks and ignorant people.
Anybody reguratating the USS Liberty propaganda crap needs to be called out.
The facts are classified and not on google. The UNKNOWN commander or politician or CIA person that ordered that ship into an active combat zone is responsible, yet every time Israel is to be bashed some fool trots out this garbage.

I am calling out RPD for trotting that crap out once again.
*
Myself, Being the grandson of Holocaust survivors, I feel it my duty to call BULLSHIT on RPD and the entire USS Liberty propaganda campaign, funded by Jew hating anti Israel Arab oil barons!*

(C-Span covers this because they are journalists, they have to, and everytime you can see a group of rich Arabs sitting in the back smiling.)


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Hey Now People! If anyone's getting banned around here its me damnit! :stick:

(Somehow that didn't come out quite like I thought...)


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Hey Now People! If anyone's getting banned around here its me damnit! :stick:
> 
> (Somehow that didn't come out quite like I thought...)


*If moderators are gonna post that Arab oil baron funded USS Liberty propaganda stuff, then ban me first!* :stick:

I'll take that bullet.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

For your own information, HVS, I was in a PTSD program at the VA and one of the other guys there was a USS Liberty survivor.
I know more about what happened than you do, sir, and not from the internet.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

WHO ordered the Liberty into an active combat zone?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The ship was in international waters. It was an electronics ship monitoring the situation in the Middle East, as it had every right to do under international law.
Israel knew it was an American ship. This is a matter of record. They knowingly attacked, without reason, an allied ship.

If you are so blinded by propaganda that you can not see the truth, there is nothing else for me to say.

And with that, I'm done with this.
Have a nice day.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

You failed to answer the question: WHO ordered the Liberty into an active combat zone?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> Wikipedia? That is the LAST place to find the true facts!
> 
> Nice to see you can type USS Liberty into a search engine.
> 
> Now file a FOIA request on the classified US military report


For some reason, people only ever see "wikipedia" in the link, and then choose to completely disregard it.
Never mind that just about everything comes with a source link to a credible resource where the statement was pulled from...
Like the source pointing to the link to the declassified NSA document detailing the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty.
Also linked, the declassified document detailing the Dept. of the Navy's Court of Inquiry about the incident.

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but if you're going to call out a bad source, at least follow the source first.

Now, those two things are declassified and should detail anything you want to know about what actually happened.
If you still don't like the evidence presented, then you must accept that the truth either hasn't been told, or that you are simply unwilling to accept it yourself.
Further FOIA requests would likely yield little more.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

I ask again:  WHO ordered the Liberty into an active combat zone?

(At the same time Israeli warplanes launched a surprise attack destroying the Egyptian air force on the ground)


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> I ask again:  WHO ordered the Liberty into an active combat zone?
> 
> (At the same time Israeli warplanes launched a surprise attack destroying the Egyptian air force on the ground)


Go read the NSA report. There was a group of people providing orders to the Liberty.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

A group of people? So no one specific person takes responsibility for issuing that catastrophic order? Why am I not surprised.

You might want to do a search to see WHO FUNDS/OWNS that WEBSITE "thelibertyincident"

*There is so much REDACTED from that NSA report! FFS Look at it. Entire sections of it are blacked out! (white actually)*

Why post a link to a NSA report that is 50% redacted as proof of anything?

From the report: 
"Looking back upon the Liberty incident today, Americans might well question why the U.S. introduced an intelligence ship into a war theater in which Americans were not direct participants and expose that ship to the risk it did."

"Members of the USN-855 felt some apprehension as they approached what they now knew to be a war zone"

Orders were sent to fleet command at 6:30Z time to withdraw the Liberty from the Combat zone, but many mistakes were made, the message was not broadcast to the Liberty until 15:25Z, by which time it was too late. The message was sent by a Sixth Fleet routing clerk to the wrong base in Morocco who sent the message to Greece who sent it back to Morocco, who sent it back to fleet, delayed because of a press conference scheduled on the USS America to refute Egyptian charges that the US directly attacked it, waited in a message que behind orders of higher precedence. etc. etc. etc.

"When it rains, it pours, and there would be even further delays in the attempts to get the word to the Liberty"

Page 15 from Liberty report 100% redacted:








The real question is what motivates people trot out this to bash Israel?
I know the motivations of Arab oil barons you can see smiling at the back of the room at the Liberty conferences C-Span has to cover for pure journalistic reasons.

US navy command in Europe: Senator John McCain's father: Four Star Admiral John S. McCain European naval Commander in Chief ordered the Liberty into the Mediterranean and to report Sitreps to him daily. So if I had to GUESS who buried this report in the first place I would have to GUESS John McCain's father. That is a guess.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> (diatribe removed for space)
> ...
> So if I had to GUESS who buried this report in the first place I would have to GUESS John McCain's father. That is a guess.


As I said, you have to fall into one of two camps. Either you must believe that the truth has not been told, or you simply fail to accept the evidence.

If you are in the first group, your argument is moot, as you can't possibly know that which has never been revealed.
If you are in the second group, then where is your evidence to counter what has been presented? Bear in mind, the credibility of your source will be scrutinized just as deeply as you've done, so choose wisely.

If you have no credible evidence to refute the "official" story told within the unredacted paragraphs of the NSA's report, then you have no ground to stand on to refute RPD, who's account came from a survivor on that ship. ( read "a witness" ).

Prove your case or stop stirring up trouble just for the sake of it.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> Prove your case or stop stirring up trouble just for the sake of it.


Don't tell me what to write


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)




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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

oops I think war stories just made the no no list with prophesy, and the diety of God.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> oops I think war stories just made the no no list with prophesy, and the deity of God.


Nah, we're good.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> Don't tell me what to write


So basically... you have no evidence to support your claim or justify your attack on RPD.
Got it.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Fault of the attack on the USS Liberty has been acknowledged by Israel has it not? Didn't Israel apologize for the error? Have their not been worse fogs of war incidents? I'm not sure why an incident acknowledged and apologized for would dictate your opinion about a nation that just wants to survive and depends on the U.S. Backing for its survival?

I've learned some in this thread. I didn't want to side track on Israel as they are pertinent but not necessarily the biggest issue here. I don't see a problem watching Russia kick Isis all over and knocking them out. Isis is a real plague / cancer on the planet and I'm glad Russia is taking it to them but I fear Russia won't stop there. Iraq next? Then Libya, Sudan, and what happens when a U.S. Ally is targeted?



rice paddy daddy said:


> USS Liberty Veterans Association
> USS Liberty Memorial
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

Russia is always in need of a port Syria looks like a good place to put one.
I have no problem with Israel been there a few times but the ship was clearly a USA ship and in common international water, so it wasn't a combat zone. and I am sure if the USA sunk one of their tiny boats off the coast of the USA in international waters they would never let us live it down.


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## GasholeWillie (Jul 4, 2014)

Russia is in Syria to run Syria, they could give a tinkers flip about ISIS. The bombing started today, Where? No where even close to where ISIS is located. But where? They bombed the area where troops fighting against Assad are located. There is a power vacuum in the ME since we appear to be so feeble. Russia is just filling the void. Many ME countries are now cozying up to Russia, a coalition will probably form and then ISIS might be taken on, Russia will not do it to "save the world". Russia is selling arms, developing partnerships and wants to get it's hands on the vast oil reserves in Iraq. We looked like we got caught with our collective pants down around our ankles today. Most of the Pentagon is ready to throw in the towel.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

GasholeWillie said:


> Russia is in Syria to run Syria, they could give a tinkers flip about ISIS. The bombing started today, Where? No where even close to where ISIS is located. But where? They bombed the area where troops fighting against Assad are located. There is a power vacuum in the ME since we appear to be so feeble. Russia is just filling the void. Many ME countries are now cozying up to Russia, a coalition will probably form and then ISIS might be taken on, Russia will not do it to "save the world". Russia is selling arms, developing partnerships and wants to get it's hands on the vast oil reserves in Iraq. We looked like we got caught with our collective pants down around our ankles today. Most of the Pentagon is ready to throw in the towel.


Agreed. I have said from the beginning Putin has an agenda and it's not necessarily ISIS. He saw the vacuum created and seized the opportunity created by the clown and thief in the oval office. If Isis sustains any damage via Russia it will be a byproduct of Russia assisting Syria and Putin wanting to gain control in Iraq. Our forces and their forces in such close proximity, both running combat operations, is a recipe for disaster. Like RPD I have often thought that we should just get the hell out of the middle east altogether and let them kill each other. But now, it appears, the game has changed. The attack on the Liberty, while not in a war zone, was most probably a casualty of the fog of war. That was between two allies. Tragic as that was, Now let's just envision the consequences of two adversaries in the same theater of operations and what an accidental, or otherwise, engagement will bring about. A cluster**** that we can thank Oblunder for.


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## luminaughty (Dec 16, 2014)

People need to wake up and see the difference between patriotism and being played. Is there any difference between Russia involving itself in other countries affairs than when America does? When America (our corrupt government) decides to involve itself in foreign wars is it a humanitarian effort or is it for other reasons such as setting up a strategic base or overthrowing the current government and installing a "puppet government" that will benefit large companies (that certain politicians and their donors) profit from or to install new leaders that will support unpopular policies that also benefit a few of the elite in America? Does our government create new enemies and increase the risk of terrorist attacks on American soil by involving us in foreign affairs? There have been some battles America has been involved in that may have actually been atleast partially a humanitarian cause but they are long ago and the overwhelming majority since have been for profit and power. If our government was truly trying to keep America safe they would first secure our borders. Second stop the spread of islam within our borders. Third deport all current Islamic immigrants and ban the immigration of future Islamic immigrants. Fourth we would deport all illegals. Fifth we would stop making ourselves a target by minding our own business and work toward solving the MANY problems we have in our own country. There are some things witch will never change. First there is NO such thing as moderate or peaceful islam and they will NEVER assimilate or coexist with other religions, laws, and freedoms we as Americans are accustomed to. Second EVERYONE who immigrates to America must assimilate and embrace Americas freedoms, laws, and history. There is NO such thing as African-American or latin-American or anything else since there is only room for one loyalty and you are ether an AMERICAN or you are NOT. Another thing I should have said earlier is the "so called" moderates our government is training and arming on the tax payers dime and isis are one in the same. This administration is hell bent on overthrowing the Syrian government but it will be the Islamic extremists (isis) who will fill the void if they succeed. All those weapons and all that training will be used against members of OUR military in the future as well as terrorists around the world and sooner or later on our own soil.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

People can't think anymore. They can't comprehend simple tasks.


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