# Christianity under attack or free speech?



## MrsInor

Harvard's satanic black mass to be held despite growing outrage | Fox News

People have posted news links about Islamic religious laws being upheld here in the US. News links that tell of kids unable to read their bibles in school or wear Christian themed apparel or jewelry.

It does seem that Christians are under attack.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons the usually quiet conservatives are beginning to speak out.


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## Denton

MrsInor said:


> Harvard's satanic black mass to be held despite growing outrage | Fox News
> 
> People have posted news links about Islamic religious laws being upheld here in the US. News links that tell of kids unable to read their bibles in school or wear Christian themed apparel or jewelry.
> 
> It does seem that Christians are under attack.
> 
> *Perhaps this is one of the reasons the usually quiet conservatives are beginning to speak out*.


As with everything else pertaining to government and culture, we waited until the patient was flat-lining before calling for an ambulance.

We know what is in store for not just this country but for the world. I am totally certain that you and Mr. Inor will stay strong to the end.


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## Charles Martel

MrsInor said:


> Harvard's satanic black mass to be held despite growing outrage | Fox News
> 
> People have posted news links about Islamic religious laws being upheld here in the US. News links that tell of kids unable to read their bibles in school or wear Christian themed apparel or jewelry.
> 
> It does seem that Christians are under attack.
> 
> Perhaps this is one of the reasons the usually quiet conservatives are beginning to speak out.


It's both...they're using "free speech" to attack and mock Christianity.

Fools mock, but they shall mourn. We know this sort of thing will occur more and more often as the time grows short. We, as Christians, know what happens to societies when they embrace this sort of darkness. The consequences are as certain as gravity. All we can do is speak out against it and prepare ourselves (and those who fall under our stewardship). The good Lord will take care of the rest.

Buckle up, and God Speed.


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## spokes

I agree, both are under attack.

Buckle up indeed! We are in for a bumpy ride.

I was reading where a St Louis Ram player is being chastised and fined for posting a tweet about his dismay over the drafting of a homosexual player. You cannot voice your opinion, you cannot write your opinion, next step is you won't even be able to THINK anything other than what 'the man' approves of.

Right now I am listening to Huckabee on the radio doing his daily opinion. I don't always agree with him. I think he is a progressive conservative, but even he is saying that our first amendment rights are under fire. Can't argue that point with the man.

Evangelicals have been saying for countless years that 'the end is near'. My response has always been, 'no, it's not bad enough. You ain't seen nothing yet.' As bad as it is, I am still of the same opinion. Pray for strength and prep all you can. The worst is yet to come.


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## MrsInor

Thank you Denton for the compliment.

"Evangelicals have been saying for countless years that 'the end is near'. My response has always been, 'no, it's not bad enough. You ain't seen nothing yet.' As bad as it is, I am still of the same opinion. Pray for strength and prep all you can. The worst is yet to come."

Spokes - I am curious if you think "the end" is coming soon? Next five, ten years? At my age soon is measured in years unlike my almost four year old grandson when soon is in the next ten minutes.


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## Beach Kowboy

I don't usually get involved in religion posts but I will chime in on this one..My grandparents and theirs and so on were fairly religious. Went to church every so often and believed in God. My mother believes but hardly ever goes to church. My dad is an atheist and I didn't even know until years later. He said he wanted me to make up my own mind. I used to believe but don't anymore. I have my reasons.. Now, with that said. These atheists that are pissing and whining about taking the Word God,the bible and stuff like that out of schools is absolutely retarded!! 

It has said "In God we trust" on our money for ages. Why do a minority of people want it changed just because it is not their belief. It's not mine either but if it isn't broke, DON'T ****ING FIX IT!!

Now you have the Muslims that are pissing and whining about their religion.. People, it we don't put a ****ing stop to it, there will be sharia law here in no time!! They can do whatever they want when it comes to Muslim religion. Same for an atheist.. But if it is not THEIR belief, they don't want it done.

It does seem like Christians are under attack. It is going to get ugly in the next 10 years! Mark my words....


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## Denton

We Americans tend to see our country as the beginning and the end of the world, but were aren't.
As a faith, it is being suppressed and left behind throughout the West. Throughout the East and Africa, those who follow Jesus do so at the risk of death.

Consider what is happening in the Middle East and Persia.
Why Are Christians Disappearing from the Middle East?

Now, back to America. Consider how this society now accepts and glorifies so many things that God made clear are wrong, embraces other religions and mocks Christianity. Where, exactly, can we expect this to lead? It can lead there pretty quickly, too.


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## Denton

By the way, when considering the the persecution of Christians in places such as Iraq, Syria and Libya, consider how our government has facilitated the persecution.


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## nephilim

Just an FYI...satanic people believe in everything of the bible...they just worship Satan instead of God. Also in the bible...god kills over 2 million people...Satan kills 10.


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## spokes

MrsInor said:


> Thank you Denton for the compliment.
> 
> "Evangelicals have been saying for countless years that 'the end is near'. My response has always been, 'no, it's not bad enough. You ain't seen nothing yet.' As bad as it is, I am still of the same opinion. Pray for strength and prep all you can. The worst is yet to come."
> 
> Spokes - I am curious if you think "the end" is coming soon? Next five, ten years? At my age soon is measured in years unlike my almost four year old grandson when soon is in the next ten minutes.


I'm not sure, MrsI. I am not an overly religious person. What I believe is deeply personal thing, but I did take a college level theology course many years ago and if you go by text and word of the bible, then it lays out what to look for in the end times. BUT those words and warnings were put to paper (or tablet) over 2000 years ago and even then they were saying "The End Is Near!" and gee, look we are still around in 2014. So who knows? I sure don't. I hope it's not for another 2000 years but that isn't for me to say.

From a scientific POV, the earth is being stressed mainly by overpopulation and social unrest. Down through time, mankind has gone through near extinction events and popped back. They were talking about this on Cosmos I think, last week's episode.

Is the end coming soon? I don't think so. Like I said, it hasn't gotten bad enough yet. Will the reset button happen in our, the baby boomers, lifetime? Still, I don't think so, but we are definitely in a warning stage period where we can, as a people make it better or let it continue to slide. TSHTF can be defined in many different ways. Not just a cataclysmic disaster, but a slow spiral downwards that takes generations. That is why we prep. In 5 years, foods that we take for granted today may be priced out of reach in 5 years. Best to stock up on them today.

That goes for our simple rights also. We cannot speak our mind today. What is it going to be in 5 years? Worse? Probably? Better? Not if something doesn't happen to change things really soon.

I set and cried in 2008 when IT was elected. I saw a bad moon on the rise then and it is still rising.


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## Denton

nephilim said:


> Just an FYI...satanic people believe in everything of the bible...they just worship Satan instead of God. Also in the bible...god kills over 2 million people...Satan kills 10.


If they believed everything of the Bible, they would not worship Satan. That's as much as I'll nibble on the bait.


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## MrsInor

Group preparing to press military for atheist chaplain, source says | Fox News

For crying out loud........


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## Charles Martel

MrsInor said:


> "Evangelicals have been saying for countless years that 'the end is near'.


Those who claimed the end was near before May of 1948 didn't understand biblical prophecy. Israel had to rise as a nation again in order for the end time prophecies to come to pass.

There's a very cool documentary called "The Daniel Project". It explains in some detail why the formation of the modern nation of Israel was such a landmark event, and why any claim that the end was coming before that time were premature.

I'm not a particularly religious person, but, I can't help but see things lining up in precisely the way biblical prophecy said they would.


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## nephilim

Denton said:


> If they believed everything of the Bible, they would not worship Satan. That's as much as I'll nibble on the bait.


They believe it...they believe it all happened. They just believe that Satan is nicer and worthier than god due to less deaths at Satan's hands etc.


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## Will2

MrsInor said:


> Harvard's satanic black mass to be held despite growing outrage | Fox News
> 
> People have posted news links about Islamic religious laws being upheld here in the US. News links that tell of kids unable to read their bibles in school or wear Christian themed apparel or jewelry.
> 
> It does seem that Christians are under attack.
> 
> Perhaps this is one of the reasons the usually quiet conservatives are beginning to speak out.


The golden rule is to stay the hell out of everyone elses business. They can think and say what they want. 
If it is not instigation of attacks or crimes against people it is opinion and in a free society people are entitled to their opinion.

You are not them, don't try to rule.


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## Denton

nephilim said:


> They believe it...they believe it all happened. They just believe that Satan is nicer and worthier than god due to less deaths at Satan's hands etc.


Unlike them or their god, God is omnipotent as well as omniscient. Were they to know who God is, were they to actually know the Bible and understand why the Creator does as He does, they would not follow the one who is leading them to their ultimate death.

They do not believe _it all happened_, they do not _believe it_. They do not know it. They are blind and misled. Were it not the case, if they understood and accepted the Truth rather than believing a lie, they would not follow the Father of Lies.


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## Denton

Will said:


> The golden rule is to stay the hell out of everyone elses business. They can think and say what they want.
> If it is not instigation of attacks or crimes against people it is opinion and in a free society people are entitled to their opinion.
> 
> You are not them, don't try to rule.


Translation: Sit down, shut up, and let others dictate the state of our culture.


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## Charles Martel

nephilim said:


> Just an FYI...satanic people believe in everything of the bible...they just worship Satan instead of God. Also in the bible...god kills over 2 million people...Satan kills 10.


No...they don't. The Bible's only purpose is to testify of the one, true God. The Lord of Hosts. The God of Israel. You cannot believe on one hand that the events of the bible are true (specifically the ministry and divinity of Jesus Christ), and still worship Satan. Anybody who claims that you can believe in the bible and worship Satan know neither Satan, or The Word of God.


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## AquaHull

Beach Kowboy said:


> I don't usually get involved in religion posts but I will chime in on this one..My grandparents and theirs and so on were fairly religious. Went to church every so often and believed in God. My mother believes but hardly ever goes to church. My dad is an atheist and I didn't even know until years later. He said he wanted me to make up my own mind. I used to believe but don't anymore. I have my reasons.. Now, with that said. These atheists that are pissing and whining about taking the Word God,the bible and stuff like that out of schools is absolutely retarded!!
> 
> It has said "In God we trust" on our money for ages. Why do a minority of people want it changed just because it is not their belief. It's not mine either but if it isn't broke, DON'T ****ING FIX IT!!
> 
> Now you have the Muslims that are pissing and whining about their religion.. People, it we don't put a ****ing stop to it, there will be sharia law here in no time!! They can do whatever they want when it comes to Muslim religion. Same for an atheist.. But if it is not THEIR belief, they don't want it done.
> 
> It does seem like Christians are under attack. It is going to get ugly in the next 10 years! Mark my words....


Hopefully we get 10 years. The US is sending observers over to Nigeria to help get the girls back.
What that means to mean is that we will have a spy planes and battle drones out there,while Germans will be marching on Islam.
Dan 11:40 comes to mind.
We may be the power behind the beast for a short time.


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## PaulS

The "Church of Satan" is an anarchist faith that places personal gratification in the place of God. Their practices do mimic the Roman Catholic practices as the "religion" was begun by a group (led by Anton LeVey) who were set in the idea that God (by any name) was a product of the human mind. They believed that people were no more or less than the most intelligent of the animals on the earth. He further believed that the "carnal" or "animalistic" nature of man was natural and should be maintained to bring back the balance in the human life. They do not actually believe in Satan as they have no god other than themselves.They love in return for love and answer negative emotions with the same negativity. Think of a wolf pack and use that model to form a "religion".

In the narrow meaning of the word theirs is not a religion at all because they worship no God. The IRS defines religion as any faith based practice that allows the worship of a deity and teaches it's members the beliefs and practices of the religion. By calling themselves deity they are, by law, a religion and protected as such under the law.

The group as a whole is a joke because they are nothing more than a mutual gratification club of atheists. They are certainly no more a threat to Christianity than atheists at large. They don't actively seek to convert others as the Christian religions do and they are not prone to attack others unless they are attacked first. remember they operate on returning what is presented to them.

Most of the uproar is caused by their name for their "religion" and it was meant to do so. Ignoring them means that they ignore you. They do revel in all the negative press - it really feeds their ego.


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## spokes

MrsInor said:


> Group preparing to press military for atheist chaplain, source says | Fox News
> 
> For crying out loud........


The only thing left is for them to press for a gay/transvestite/transgender/atheist chaplain who is a druid priest every other weekend. 

Come on people, get real. I'm starting to understand the Russians, God help me. They outlawed Islam and Homosexuality. Now, you really cannot outlaw a persons sexual preference but I can read between the lines here and see what they are saying. What you do behind closed doors is your business, just don't air your laundry out in public for all to see.

Their message to the Islams? Don't mess with us. People are entitled to believe what they wish and worship how they wish. I just don't want them to mess with us either.

America needs to wake up and clean up before it is too late.

The moral decay of America is what really frightens me. My mother used to say that what is happening in the world has happened down through time, the only difference is her generation (Pre WWII, she was born in 1920) did it on the back porch and the new generation does it on the front porch. She wasn't talking literally, but I got what she meant and she was right. So if that is the truth, what is today's generation going to do?


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## Beach Kowboy

I am all for people believing what they want and pretty much do what they want behind their own doors. I do not however what them to start pushing their beliefs on our system. I hate to say it but I am going to anyway.. We need blood spilled before we are no longer America as it was meant to be!!


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## PaulS

Sex party at the lake!

no, not really but the question was asked...


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## Beach Kowboy

Take people like this guy!! The Wild Way a British Islamist Suggests Forcing ?Infidels? to Dress in Order to Get Them to Convert | Video | TheBlaze.com Someone need to walk up to him in the street and blow his brains out the back of his head!! Start at the top and work your way down until they no longer want to fight. If they do, just keep going.


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## PaulS

Freedom of thought, freedom of speech and the freedom to protect yourself.... they kinda fit together don't you think?


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## paraquack

For those of us who believe in God and divine punishment in the hereafter, will probably get a chuckle at the end when the satanists get to spend eternity with him. Just saying.


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## lancestar2

spokes said:


> I agree, both are under attack.
> 
> Buckle up indeed! We are in for a bumpy ride.
> 
> I was reading where a St Louis Ram player is being chastised and fined for posting a tweet about his dismay over the drafting of a homosexual player. You cannot voice your opinion, you cannot write your opinion, next step is you won't even be able to THINK anything other than what 'the man' approves of.
> 
> Right now I am listening to Huckabee on the radio doing his daily opinion. I don't always agree with him. I think he is a progressive conservative, but even he is saying that our first amendment rights are under fire. Can't argue that point with the man.
> 
> Evangelicals have been saying for countless years that 'the end is near'. My response has always been, 'no, it's not bad enough. You ain't seen nothing yet.' As bad as it is, I am still of the same opinion. Pray for strength and prep all you can. The worst is yet to come.


What are you suggesting Buckle? the NFL is a business organization that profits on people that attend there games, view there programming, or buy there merchandise. Are you suggesting there be a UNION or a GOVERNMENT body to protect the workers (player) to be able to speak there own mind? Also do business not have the right to run there business the way they want?

If a employer feels your views will negatively affect his business operation then does he have the RIGHT to fire you? I think he does. Do you think differently?


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## Slippy

Their
There

Two totally different words with different meanings.


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## MrsInor

Why do I get the feeling the Lance is being tutored by Resister?


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## Beach Kowboy

Slippy said:


> Their
> There
> 
> Two totally different words with different meanings.


Beat me to it..lol


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## MrsInor

Should I now whine that MY thread is being hijacked?


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## Beach Kowboy

Anyone heard from Montana Rancher?


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## lancestar2

MrsInor said:


> Why do I get the feeling the Lance is being tutored by Resister?


no I learned this from you!

how about them turtles!

...but in all seriousness I was simply asking a follow up question no need to get your feathers in a bunch


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## MrsInor

Haven't heard from MR in many days. Maybe he and Meangreen and Nurse Holly started their own site.


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## MrsInor

Maybe he is putting crops in? Or I seem to remember he was taking the wife to Hawaii or did that already happen?


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## Beach Kowboy

Just like this ?F*** Her?: Woman Pelted With a Frigid Surprise While Holding an Anti-Gay Mother?s Day Sign | Video | TheBlaze.com They can do whatever the **** they want. They hold signs,have parades and protest and it is ok. If a regular straight white guy/lady, they would be in trouble. This lady knew she was wrong. Which is why she asked the news station not to show the slushie part because she didn't want to go to jail. I would have kicked the dog shit out of the swamp donkey! If I was a woman of course.. I still might have pepper sprayed her just for the point though..


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## pakrat

nephilim said:


> Just an FYI...satanic people believe in everything of the bible...they just worship Satan instead of God. Also in the bible...god kills over 2 million people...Satan kills 10.


I think your count is off. Satan brought death to all of mankind and continues to.


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> Just like this ?F*** Her?: Woman Pelted With a Frigid Surprise While Holding an Anti-Gay Mother?s Day Sign | Video | TheBlaze.com They can do whatever the **** they want. They hold signs,have parades and protest and it is ok. If a regular straight white guy/lady, they would be in trouble. This lady knew she was wrong. Which is why she asked the news station not to show the slushie part because she didn't want to go to jail. I would have kicked the dog shit out of the swamp donkey! If I was a woman of course.. I still might have pepper sprayed her just for the point though..


It was reported that the cops were called earlier and they did get there in time to file a report. I'm surprised you would suggest that girl should have been kicked! Sounds like your in support of Muslim law???? I mean American law is that the lady can file a report take her to court and she will have her day in court and have some sentence. But no YOU rather she be kicked and pepper sprayed? I guess we should be fearful of a Muslim state because there ideas are already taking root!


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## Beach Kowboy

lancestar2 said:


> It was reported that the cops were called earlier and they did get there in time to file a report. I'm surprised you would suggest that girl should have been kicked! Sounds like your in support of Muslim law???? I mean American law is that the lady can file a report take her to court and she will have her day in court and have some sentence. But no YOU rather she be kicked and pepper sprayed? I guess we should be fearful of a Muslim state because there ideas are already taking root!


Yes, she walked up because she didn't agree with what was being protested and threw a slushie on the lady.. So yes, I would have like her to get the shit kicked out of her.. Kicked ass I don't mean "kicked" It means an ass whoopin!!


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## Beach Kowboy

People like you are what is wrong with this country.. I bet you have probably never been into a fight in your life. You think it is ok for someone to throw a drink on someone and just file a report and take it to court. Our court system is backed up enough with all this bullshit. It should go like this.
Girl is protesting,bitchwalks up and throws a slushie on her. The girl that was protesting beats the dog shit out of the slushie thrower!! Problem solved....No police, no court no tax dollar ****ING WASTED!!!!!!!


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> People like you are what is wrong with this country.. I bet you have probably never been into a fight in your life. You think it is ok for someone to throw a drink on someone and just file a report and take it to court. Our court system is backed up enough with all this bullshit. It should go like this.
> Girl is protesting,bitchwalks up and throws a slushie on her. The girl that was protesting beats the dog shit out of the slushie thrower!! Problem solved....No police, no court no tax dollar ****ING WASTED!!!!!!!


Have you NEVER been to a high school ever? People throw shit on other people all the time that is no excuse for beating people. It is not ok for her to throw her drink on her and she needs to pay her damages and whatever the courts decide. What you are suggesting is Muslim law which is NOT ALLOWED here I suggest you not preach that BS here!

oh and if you really thought for a second that if beating that person was the right thing to do you think her winding up in a hospital bed is gonna be "no tax dollars wasted" then you clearly don't excel in math my friend 

If you are NOT in any immediate harm there is no reason to to beat her... shit god for bid had that lady had a gun do you think she was justifed to shoot her because she tossed her drink on her? Just plain stupid! That's what get's people killed! We don't need Muslim law, a drink to the face does not put you in any harm at all! its degrading and insulting and she attacker should be punished but not a bullet or a fist to the face! thats Muslim law and we don't allow that here!!!!


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## Beach Kowboy

lancestar2 said:


> Have you NEVER been to a high school ever? People throw shit on other people all the time that is no excuse for beating people. It is not ok for her to throw her drink on her and she needs to pay her damages and whatever the courts decide. What you are suggesting is Muslim law which is NOT ALLOWED here I suggest you not preach that BS here!
> 
> oh and if you really thought for a second that if beating that person was the right thing to do you think her winding up in a hospital bed is gonna be "no tax dollars wasted" then you clearly don't excel in math my friend
> 
> If you are NOT in any immediate harm there is no reason to to beat her... shit god for bid had that lady had a gun do you think she was justifed to shoot her because she tossed her drink on her? Just plain stupid! That's what get's people killed! We don't need Muslim law, a drink to the face does not put you in any harm at all! its degrading and insulting and she attacker should be punished but not a bullet or a fist to the face! thats Muslim law and we don't allow that here!!!!


And this people is how this country has been pussified!!

As for the high school part. I graduated in 92. People didn't go around throwing shit on each other "all the time" They knew they would get their ass kicked! So you had no throwing of slushies and no fights.. VERY SIMPLE... Now you have people throwing shit because there are no real consequences...

As for Muslim "Sharia Law" not being allowed here. Just give it 10 years and tell me that.


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## Beach Kowboy

Might want to go back and hang out at the mall or Starbucks with your "friends"..


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> And this people is how this country has been pussified!!
> 
> As for the high school part. I graduated in 92. People didn't go around throwing shit on each other "all the time" They knew they would get their ass kicked! So you had no throwing of slushies and no fights.. VERY SIMPLE... Now you have people throwing shit because there are no real consequences...
> 
> As for Muslim "Sharia Law" not being allowed here. Just give it 10 years and tell me that.


So you support some of there laws being implemented? do you think it would "de-pu****" us? What about worshiping there god? Do you think we should be forced to do that as well to make sure were all not "p****'s ? Honestly are you an atheist? Where do you get your "morality" from?


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## Slippy

Beach Kowboy said:


> And this people is how this country has been pussified!!


Another accurate statement from The BK!


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## Beach Kowboy

lancestar2 said:


> So you support some of there laws being implemented? do you think it would "de-pu****" us? What about worshiping there god? Do you think we should be forced to do that as well to make sure were all not "p****'s ? Honestly are you an atheist? Where do you get your "morality" from?


I said it will be here it 10 years. I didn't say I wanted it. Personally, I wouldn't lose a winks sleep if I woke up int he mornin and every muslim on earth were to have died overnight!


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> I said it will be here it 10 years. I didn't say I wanted it. Personally, I wouldn't lose a winks sleep if I woke up int he mornin and every muslim on earth were to have died overnight!


oh ok so you support/don't care about mass murder of millions of people. SO does this stem from your atheist viewpoint or a christian beliefs? Also why do you then support there laws of using violence when fronted with a minor crime? I think your viewpoint is rather extreme and I don't think most people here would support your ideas so that is why I am curious as to how you justify it.


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## Beach Kowboy

lancestar2 said:


> oh ok so you support/don't care about mass murder of millions of people. SO does this stem from your atheist viewpoint or a christian beliefs? Also why do you then support there laws of using violence when fronted with a minor crime? I think your viewpoint is rather extreme and I don't think most people here would support your ideas so that is why I am curious as to how you justify it.


I don't care if most people here agree with my viewpoint. I just think that if a woman walks up and is "tough" enough to throw a drink on someone she should be tough enough to take a punch to the face.. You sure as **** don't come from the country do ya? Bet you grew up in a nice liberal city...


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## Beach Kowboy

As for the mass murder of millions of people. If they are trying to kill us, you bet your ass I want them dead first. The ones not tryin to kill us are hiding and raising money for the ones that are...

I will NEVER believe that muslims are a non violent entity...EVER


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> I don't care if most people here agree with my viewpoint. I just think that if a woman walks up and is "tough" enough to throw a drink on someone she should be tough enough to take a punch to the face.. You sure as **** don't come from the country do ya? Bet you grew up in a nice liberal city...


I grew up learning about Jesus turning the other check not about Jesus coming down off the cross and beating the shit out of people. Also so did the majority of the country so this idea of being a p*ssy well I guess Jesus Christ is one too... so you want to bad mouth him because of his actions of not being tough enough?


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> As for the mass murder of millions of people. If they are trying to kill us, you bet your ass I want them dead first. The ones not tryin to kill us are hiding and raising money for the ones that are...
> 
> *I will NEVER believe that muslims are a non violent entity...EVER*


fair enough... but your viewpoint is just like theres it's very violent as well...

Jesus taught peace and love not hate and beating people for throwing a drink!... yea it's not right I get it but were a Christian nation ONLY when it's CONVENIENT for what we want to do!!!!


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## machinejjh

Today, men are not taught to be men. No morals, no honor, no respect. They are basically non-women. If this nation falls, it will be because there are no men left to defend it...

Life sucks, wear a helmet.


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## lancestar2

machinejjh said:


> Today, men are not taught to be men. No morals, no honor, no respect. They are basically non-women. If this nation falls, it will be because there are no men left to defend it...
> 
> Life sucks, wear a helmet.


well was jesus a non-women or was he greater in your opinion? Do you think turn the other check should be taught or do you think only non-women type people with No morals, no honor, no respect should behave as such?


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## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> I grew up learning about Jesus turning the other check not about Jesus coming down off the cross and beating the shit out of people. Also so did the majority of the country so this idea of being a p*ssy well I guess Jesus Christ is one too... so you want to bad mouth him because of his actions of not being tough enough?


Seems we have yet another non-believer misrepresenting.

Jesus didn't turn the other check, by the way. I believe Peter handled the finances, and he paid with coins, not checks.


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## machinejjh

lancestar2 said:


> well was jesus a non-women or was he greater in your opinion? Do you think turn the other check should be taught or do you think only non-women type people with No morals, no honor, no respect should behave as such?


It's cute that you would think so. Jesus was a man. Ask the moneychangers in the temple. Turn the other cheek does not mean get run over or taken advantage of.


----------



## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> well was jesus a non-women or was he greater in your opinion? Do you think turn the other check should be taught or do you think only non-women type people with No morals, no honor, no respect should behave as such?


Ask the money changers if He was a man.
You are misrepresenting verses.


----------



## lancestar2

machinejjh said:


> It's cute that you would think so. Jesus was a man. Ask the moneychangers in the temple. Turn the other cheek does not mean get run over or taken advantage of.


ok... then do you agree with BK in saying that the women should have kicked her and beat the s*** out of her for throwing the drink at her and the sign? Did jesus ever beat anyone in his lifetime? What is your interpretation of that and how do you honestly think jesus would have acted AND what is the most godly means of dealing with that situation?


----------



## Charles Martel

Beach Kowboy said:


> And this people is how this country has been pussified!!
> 
> As for the high school part. I graduated in 92. People didn't go around throwing shit on each other "all the time" They knew they would get their ass kicked! So you had no throwing of slushies and no fights.. VERY SIMPLE... Now you have people throwing shit because there are no real consequences...


I graduated in 92' as well...and you had better believe I'd have thrown down if somebody had splashed a slushie in my face. We didn't go around doing stupid shit like that because we all knew that sort of thing would instantly come to blows. We only did that sort of thing when we WANTED to fight. We didn't put up with crap like that.

This society has made girls out of our young men. Our boys have been stripped of every manly instinct they were ever born with. When our generation is gone, there will be very few real men left.


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## lancestar2

Charles Martel said:


> I graduated in 92' as well...and you had better believe I'd have thrown down if somebody had splashed a slushie in my face. We didn't go around doing stupid shit like that because we all knew that sort of thing would instantly come to blows. We only did that sort of thing when we WANTED to fight. We didn't put up with crap like that.
> 
> This society has made girls out of our young men. Our boys have been stripped of every manly instinct they were ever born with. When our generation is gone, there will be very few real men left.


So jesus's teachings were wrong then? I mean because I don't recall jesus beating anybody's ass he must have been a made out to be a girl right? Or did jesus fight alot and I just haven't read about it yet in the bible? You see the double standard right?


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## Beach Kowboy

Hey lance, are ya coming to the gathering? I would really like to talk to ya in person.. Really, not being a smart ass or anything.


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## lancestar2

Old SF Guy said:


> Lance, lets pursue your own position here. If an employer feels that someones views will negatively affect his business then he has a right to fire them. Thats what you said correct? So if I as a Christian, who has a business that serves a lot of Christians (more than 2/3rds of American identifies themselves as such or did a few years ago),* Then if a person working for me expressed views supporting Gays, Abortion, pre-marital sex, etc...I now have the right, in your view, to fire them?* Now the reality is Certain points of view will get you fired...anti gay, pro christian, anti-abortion, and it is only free speech when it condemns Christians or Republicans, or Conservatism, or any attack on the right that it is protected. Hell even donating money to a traditional marriage movement will get you fired in these days of intolerance to have a differing opinion than that of the left.


Yes, The Catholic Church has been very active in firing there teachers if they find out they are legally married to the same sex or if they are out promoting equality. Of course the amount of GLBT Catholic Church teachers are very few but surprisingly enough that several cases have been popping up from time to time. I do think based on there religious opinions they have the right to fire them. I also support the policy that allows pharmacists to refuse to sell the day after pill based on religious views.


----------



## lancestar2

Old SF Guy said:


> Lance....none of us are Jesus....We are more like Peter (Simon) quick to the sword. I don't think he was going for that guys ear....the guys just ducked and turned his head to the side at the right time. Bottom line... Saying "What would Jesus do...is a good thing....but read revelations and then say what would Jesus do. He came before as the Lamb of God....next he will come as the Lion and the King of Kings... We are men, and as such we fall short of Gods standards because we are sinful. Kicking someones ass is sinful...and like most things sinful we feel good about doing it...at least better than I'd feel watching someone brutalize my child, wife, or even a stranger...while I just turned the other cheek. SOmetimes though it is better to turn the other cheek... I found that out recently.
> 
> *Also read about what Jesus did when he saw what the Jews where doing in his Fathers house.*


you sparked my curiosity... what did he do?

Also I would point out that yes, based on what you said it is human's nature to be mean and to sin... and everyone else is saying that we need "men to be men" violent and curl towards others that are curl towards us. Is that not the spreading of evil deeds? Sure maybe those are others words and not yours but you seem rather religious... isn't it your duty to spread the word of god and to encourage good behavior anyway you can?

perhaps it's just more of that one guy who betrayed jesus by saying he didn't know him 3 times... It just seems in general Christians don't teach to be like jesus they teach to be human, and to be sinful, so long as you end up setting the record straight before you pass. Maybe im to harsh but it just seems from my experience Christians are all talk but they are always the last ones to walk the walk! Yet they want to shame everyone else first!


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## Beach Kowboy

Here is an interest read. I already posted about percentages of muslims in a country before things start to happen so I wont post it again. If you haven't seen it, do a search and if you can't find it. Let me know if you are interested in it and I will repost it. Anyway, Back to the interesting read.. This is what happens when you let muslims have their way. Italian Girls Fined $3,500 each for Wearing Swimsuits Near Muslims on Italian Beach |

We need as a country to be smart!! We are to politically correct and it is going to cost us EVERYTHING!! The majority of people that have been overseas in mostly muslim countries will agree with me. Mostly the ones that wont, have never experienced it..


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## Inor

Lance -

Jesus is a lot of things. But most of all he is a teacher. I would argue that kicking the ass of the swamp donkey that threw the slushy is just another way to teach manners. A black eye, a broken nose, maybe knock out a tooth or two... None of it is permanent and maybe the swamp donkey will learn to be more respectful of others. When I grew up, folks were a lot more respectful and had much better manners in large part because if they were assholes they beat up until they learned better. So yeah, I am pretty sure Jesus is okay with punching a dickhead in the face just as another object lesson.


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## Inor

Beach Kowboy said:


> The majority of people that have been overseas in mostly muslim countries will agree with me. Mostly the ones that wont, have never experienced it..


I have not been to a Muslim country overseas, but I have been to Detroit. Does that count? Regardless, you are absolutely correct.


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## MrsInor

Old SF Guy - this is the way conversations go, before email, twitter, texting, etc. - you start with a subject and it evolves. Sometimes it actually goes back to the original topic and sometimes not. No bug deal to me. I enjoy your posts and learn from them. Absolutely no apology necessary.


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## lancestar2

Inor said:


> Lance -
> 
> Jesus is a lot of things. But most of all he is a teacher. I would argue that kicking the ass of the swamp donkey that threw the slushy is just another way to teach manners. A black eye, a broken nose, maybe knock out a tooth or two... None of it is permanent and maybe the swamp donkey will learn to be more respectful of others. When I grew up, folks were a lot more respectful and had much better manners in large part because if they were assholes they beat up until they learned better. So yeah, I am pretty sure Jesus is okay with punching a dickhead in the face just as another object lesson.


well... does that mean you can punch your husband or wife in the face as well for being a "dickhead" ? At what point does Jesus gives his OK? Also if it's a grey area such as maybe some guy was kinda a dick head you can attack him and beat him up and just ask for his forgiveness later? Or how do you know when it's OK? Do US law of domestic abuse are what define as what Jesus is ok with?

*EDIT* I re-read you post again and it sounds like Domestic abuse is not a sin I guess... however it's just a illgeal action based on our government laws and it's the individual's responsibility to ensure there own safety. Is that correct in your opinion to?

Also interesting post OLD SF Guy and thanks for sharing your views.


----------



## Inor

lancestar2 said:


> *EDIT* I re-read you post again and it sounds like Domestic abuse is not a sin I guess... however it's just a illgeal action based on our government laws and it's the individual's responsibility to ensure there own safety. Is that correct in your opinion to?


I never thought about it. I am faster than Mrs Inor. In over 20 years of domestic bliss, she has yet to land a punch on me.


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## Beach Kowboy

Actually, you can ask his forgiveness later. I was in a fight in like the 9th grade with this kid over some stupid shit. Some girl or something. Anyway, we had us a good fight and by the time we graduated, we were best friends. He is still one of the few people in this world I trust.. Sometimes you just have to punch someone though..lol

Gotta love Swamp Donkey's, huh Inor? LOL


----------



## Inor

Beach Kowboy said:


> Actually, you can ask his forgiveness later. I was in a fight in like the 9th grade with this kid over some stupid shit. Some girl or something. Anyway, we had us a good fight and by the time we graduated, we were best friends. He is still one of the few people in this world I trust.. Sometimes you just have to punch someone though..lol
> 
> Gotta love Swamp Donkey's, huh Inor? LOL


You have the best vocabulary of anybody I have ever met! I learn colorful new terms from you almost daily and do actually use them in my real life conversations. Thanks Kowboy!


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## MrsInor

Yeah, thanks Kowboy. He speaks and I have to apologize for it.


----------



## Deebo

MrsInor said:


> Haven't heard from MR in many days. Maybe he and Meangreen and Nurse Holly started their own site.


And danny defense and bama...


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## MrsInor

Bama's fiancée was in an accident so he's been busy. He popped in a few days ago.


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## Beach Kowboy

Boards have a little turnover and we will lose some and gain a few more..


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## Deebo

Lance- I gotta jump in here, and tell yopu, if you were standing beside me, and someone called you "gay" and threw a slushie on you, I would kick the shit out of the person who threw it.
If some strait guy was standing beside me, and some gay guy threw a slushie on him, I would kick the shit out of the person who threw it.
Then, I would ask you, or the other guy, "why the hell would you allow ANYONE to disrespect you like that?"
My mother taught me, dont start no trouble, defend people that cant defend tyhemselves, and an asswhooping is a reminder to not let that happen again. The people of today need to know there are consequences, You have the right to say whatever you want, but you better be willing to run or fight if you say it to the right person.
As for Muslims, I really have one answer, if muslim religion really states "convert or die", then WATERBOARD ALL OF THEM WITH PIGS BLOOD.


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## lancestar2

Deebo said:


> Lance- I gotta jump in here, and tell yopu, if you were standing beside me, and someone called you "gay" and threw a slushie on you, I would kick the shit out of the person who threw it.
> If some strait guy was standing beside me, and some gay guy threw a slushie on him, I would kick the shit out of the person who threw it.
> Then, I would ask you, or the other guy, "why the hell would you allow ANYONE to disrespect you like that?"
> My mother taught me, dont start no trouble, defend people that cant defend tyhemselves, and an asswhooping is a reminder to not let that happen again. The people of today need to know there are consequences, You have the right to say whatever you want, but you better be willing to run or fight if you say it to the right person.
> As for Muslims, I really have one answer, if muslim religion really states "convert or die", then WATERBOARD ALL OF THEM WITH PIGS BLOOD.


...well if you were defending me I would have been in a state of daze until you hit em once then I would pulling you off of the guy myself if I had to! Don't confuse people who "can't" defend themselves with people who "choose" not to. People don't have to respect me, people don't have to like me, but when you "defend" that person you make that person's actions less wrong by resorting to there level of physical violence. I am not prideful nor do the teachings of jesus tell us we should "demand respect" you show love towards everyone even the people that hate you... sure I may get a little smart mouthed haha (my only downfall I know haha) but overcoming that sense of rage and anger is much more enlightening and rewarding than any feeling of joy of punching somebody in the face.

who says we are entitled to the basic respect you are explaining? from what I learned they spit in the face of jesus! No I am not saying we should do that to one another hell no! what I am saying is that instead of hurting that person you turn the other check and walk away. I mean if jesus could why can't we? ...another point of Christians not following the example of jesus.


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## Beach Kowboy

lancestar2 said:


> ...well if you were defending me I would have been in a state of daze until you hit em once then I would pulling you off of the guy myself if I had to! Don't confuse people who "can't" defend themselves with people who "choose" not to. People don't have to respect me, people don't have to like me, but when you "defend" that person you make that person's actions less wrong by resorting to there level of physical violence. I am not prideful nor do the teachings of jesus tell us we should "demand respect" you show love towards everyone even the people that hate you... sure I may get a little smart mouthed haha (my only downfall I know haha) but overcoming that sense of rage and anger is much more enlightening and rewarding than any feeling of joy of punching somebody in the face.
> 
> who says we are entitled to the basic respect you are explaining? from what I learned they spit in the face of jesus! No I am not saying we should do that to one another hell no! what I am saying is that instead of hurting that person you turn the other check and walk away. I mean if jesus could why can't we? ...another point of Christians not following the example of jesus.


You have never punched someone in the face, have ya? I can be very rewarding and enlightening at times!


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> You have never punched someone in the face, have ya? I can be very rewarding and enlightening at times!


not on purpose... there was once a kid 1 or 2 grades below me kept kicking my seat on the bus. I ended up standing up for myself and scaring him and went to grab his collar and my fist smacked his front tooth HONESTLY NOT ON PURPOSE! I really scared the crap out of him and I saw him tear up quite a bit lol. He left me alone since then, but I still manged to deal with the situation without actually causing harm to the kid. It was rewarding standing up for myself but I would never intend to harm anyone by kicking them out of anger... I think that is wrong and evil IMO.


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## Inor

I'll second that! Punching hippies is like chicken soup for the soul.


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## Deebo

lance, I would suggest, you punch someone in the face, right now. If you cant find someone, punch yourself.
If you choose to let someone disrespect you, you are condoning and allowing it to happen to all people. (gay or strait).
I think you just lost most of the respect I had for you.


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## lancestar2

Inor said:


> I'll second that! Punching hippies is like chicken soup for the soul.


jesus was a hippi... long hair, sandals, rarely showering lol...

but honestly are we not all god's children? why would you enjoy hitting others it seems like a slap in the face to god even if people are behaving badly they are still god's creations isn't that the Christian teaching? I still don't see the justification.


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## lancestar2

Deebo said:


> lance, I would suggest, you punch someone in the face, right now. If you cant find someone, punch yourself.
> If you choose to let someone disrespect you, you are condoning and allowing it to happen to all people. (gay or strait).
> I think you just lost most of the respect I had for you.


..I heard that argument before and I think it's a good point I will have to keep that in mind. As for loosing your respect haha i'm sure you know by now how much value I put on that  There is never any need to worry about what others think of you. IMO. Just do what you feel is right... I am starting to wonder why there is such a different opinion of belifes from what we believe how jesus acted and what society (as christians) deem normal.

I would also aruge that pressing charges helps fight the condoning it however I'm not sure now haha... either way I still don't think jesus would have kicked that lady and if were all trying to get to heaven why would we too? I mean doing what is right in the eyes of god is more important not about detouring behavior here right?


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## Inor

Kowboy or Slippy or Deebo or Cam19 -

Could one of you guys please explain the difference between punching some asshole that desperately needs it and beating him to death to Lance? I just do not have it in me tonight to do it without becoming wildly offensive.

Thanks!

-I-


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## MrsInor

So if the shtf and some "looter" said give me all your food or I'll punch you - you're going to hand it over?
If you see someone getting repeatedly punched are you going to stand by and watch?


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## Deebo

Lance, i am not JESUS, you are not JESUS(I dont know), and as far as my respecting you, or not, it is irrellevent.
Jesus, took the abuse he took, for me. And you, you just have to accept it. Its that simple. Accept it, or dont. 
I cant explain it any further, except maybe, if the person that "you would allow to hit you, was a rapist?" You say you would "press civil charges", or do you say "not over my dead body"?


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## Beach Kowboy

Inor said:


> Kowboy or Slippy or Deebo or Cam19 -
> 
> Could one of you guys please explain the difference between punching some asshole that desperately needs it and beating him to death to Lance? I just do not have it in me tonight to do it without becoming wildly offensive.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -I-


he wont get it..


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## spokes

It's called First Amendment. Right to freedom of speech. The man wasn't on the football field, he wasn't in the locker room. He was on his own time. He did not call the draftee any derogatory names or slander him. All he said was, and do not quote me on this, 'Horrible'. I have not read anywhere where he dissed his bosses, spoke ill of his teammates or slandered St Louis. All he was said was 'Horrible' and something else similar to it was a mistake drafting the man.

Do you think an employer, whether it be Micky D's or the St. Louis Rams has the right to tell you what you can do or not do on your own time? What you can say or not say? Think or not think?

There is a word for that, it's called Slavery where you are owned and your very existence is under their control. Oh wait, lets make that two words. It's also called Communism.

You don't think the ticket sales are going to dip because of their drafting of an openly gay player? I'm not a football fan to start with but there are a lot of really conservative Christians who are and I bet real money that they will have an opinion of their draft and it will not be positive. Gonna fine or censor them for tweeting or facebooking an opinion? That will be next. Pretty soon you won't be able to get on this or any forum and speak your mind if things keep going the way they are. It will be worse than the Muslims where they don't want you to say anything dissing Mohamed. 

What are YOU suggesting, Lance,that we citizens need a union to preserve our right of speech that is dictated in the First Amendment? That the government will have to step in and give me the right to say my opinion? Yeah, right, like that is going to happen. The government is the main body that is tightening the strangle hold on our rights. And it will be a cold day in Hell before I ever join a union.

Do people have a right to dis their employers on the social media? Sure. Why not? Does an employer have the right to fire you? Sure. Why not? But does anybody have the right to deny you your right to free speech given to you under the First Amendment of the Constitution? NO!


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## paraquack

The GLTW (Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, and Wantabes) won't be happy until homosexuality is mandatory in this country. We taught to be tolerant of people with different points of view. But I find it hard to be tolerant when the person with a different point of view is trying so shove it up my a$$. What you do in the privacy of your own home is none of my business. What you do in public, in front of a news camera is something I wish I could forget, but unfortunately it is burned indelibly into my memory, and short of a lobotomy, I'll never get it out of my head. 
I can't help but wonder if the news coverage of all of this $hit is strictly a way to get ratings. I'm curious, what will the Rams do if some of the other players don't want to have him watching while they undress and shower and get ogled ?


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## Charles Martel

lancestar2 said:


> So jesus's teachings were wrong then? I mean because I don't recall jesus beating anybody's ass he must have been a made out to be a girl right? Or did jesus fight alot and I just haven't read about it yet in the bible? You see the double standard right?


I should remind you that I'm not Jesus.

That said, Jesus was no sissy. He physically laid his hands on the money changers and drove them out of the temple. He overturned their tables and their benches. I suspect it looked a bit like an ass kicking to those who were there.

Moreover, Jesus wasn't a pacifist. There is one particular verse (Luke 22:36) where he admonishes his followers to sell their cloaks in order to buy swords. It should also be mentioned that the whole "turn the other cheek" thing was a mistranslation of the original texts.

There is no double standard. Dude throws a slushee in my face, he's getting a beat down. I'm 6' 4", 240. I don't have to tolerate that sort of thing.


----------



## MrsInor

paraquack said:


> The GLTW (Gay, Lesbian, Transgender, and Wantabes) won't be happy until homosexuality is mandatory in this country. We taught to be tolerant of people with different points of view. But I find it hard to be tolerant when the person with a different point of view is trying so shove it up my a$$. What you do in the privacy of your own home is none of my business. What you do in public, in front of a news camera is something I wish I could forget, but unfortunately it is burned indelibly into my memory, and short of a lobotomy, I'll never get it out of my head.
> I can't help but wonder if the news coverage of all of this $hit is strictly a way to get ratings. I'm curious, what will the Rams do if some of the other players don't want to have him watching while they undress and shower and get ogled ?


I suspect locker rooms will now have some "private" areas for the gay players. It doesn't matter of course how the straight players feel. Look at how the schools have catered to the "GLTW" people. They can use whichever restroom they feel comfortable using, there are "safe" zones in our local high school where they can speak to counselors and be with others like them. There are no "safe zones" for straight kids. The whole gay issue is being shoved down our throats as in - we are not only different and you have to like it but you also have to treat us special.


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## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> jesus was a hippi... long hair, sandals, rarely showering lol...
> 
> but honestly are we not all god's children? why would you enjoy hitting others it seems like a slap in the face to god even if people are behaving badly they are still god's creations isn't that the Christian teaching? I still don't see the justification.


No, we are not all God's children. Again, with the misinformation. Being created by God and being one of His children are to entirely different things.

I understand the notion of not wanting to strike others. I've struck many in the past. Righteous indignation always caused it. Not really a proper motivator, if you ask me, and I doubt the recipients ever learned a meaningful life lesson. I'm not saying I won't rise to an occasion, today, but the bar has been raised significantly.


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## Denton

By the way, you guys make me want to win the lottery so that work doesn't get in the way of reading posts. Trying to catch up on just one thread is a daunting task. Especially when I choke on my coffee while laughing.

There is some funny stuff in here!


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## Denton

Not that we aren't good with words and researching, here is a commentary from a couple days ago. "The New Fascists."

Meet the new fascists ? and their victims


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## firefighter72

I'm glad thats not happening at my school. There's a group of church pastors that come in on Mondays and let kids come in and talk bout their religion during lunch.


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## MrsInor

firefighter72 said:


> I'm glad thats not happening at my school. There's a group of church pastors that come in on Mondays and let kids come in and talk bout their religion during lunch.


Don't spread that around too much or some anti-conservative group will sue.


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## paraquack

What do you expect from a Muslim or a Muslim wantabe?
View attachment 5366


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## lancestar2

paraquack said:


> What do you expect from a Muslim or a Muslim wantabe?
> View attachment 5366


...oh I guess I'm a muslim "wantabe" ...here all this time being an atheist I thought I just didn't believe the stupidity of a guy rounding up several million animals and packing them into a boat and riding the seas for a few months. But in fact it all was just a illusion!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: It really was just because I truly believe in this religion I know nothing about in which I have the deep down desire to wrap women up in bed sheets before allowing them outdoors! Oh my... I guess I should of stocked up on that sale at bath sheets last week at Bed Bath and Beyond! CRAP! couldn't you have told me this a week ago! JESUS! ....oh wait... that's right I need to say ....um.. all ka? wait is that his name...

oh god the paranoia is strong with that idiot!


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## MrsInor

We have several church groups here that rent a portion of one of the public schools to hold their church services. I am surprised that some of the muslim folks don't protest that.


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## lancestar2

MrsInor said:


> We have several church groups here that rent a portion of one of the public schools to hold their church services. I am surprised that some of the muslim folks don't protest that.


yea, I'm surprized they also don't wait in the bushes in there bed bath and beyond sale sheets and scream AE-YAYYAYAYYAYAYAY at people as they pass by! :shock: I mean that's what they always do in the cartoons from the 50's or so... I bet they are just waiting and plotting.... hmmm.... These are facts yea...


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## Beach Kowboy

lancestar2 said:


> yea, I'm surprized they also don't wait in the bushes in there bed bath and beyond sale sheets and scream AE-YAYYAYAYYAYAYAY at people as they pass by! :shock: I mean that's what they always do in the cartoons from the 50's or so... I bet they are just waiting and plotting.... hmmm.... These are facts yea...


Sounds to me like you make fun of most religions but seem to like and feel sorry for muslims.


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> Sounds to me like you make fun of most religions but seem to like and feel sorry for muslims.


naw... I just don't hate them  ... you know I just practice that equality thing where you treat all people equal. You could say I dislike all religions equally. Well besids Buddhists they seem to by far have a better head on there shoulders and have a better sense of logic and reason in there religion.

I mean you have the Magical boat religion and the must wrap up women religion... it kinda.... seems lacking in logic just a TAD!!! ... but I could be wrong :roll:


----------



## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> ...oh I guess I'm a muslim "wantabe" ...here all this time being an atheist I thought I just didn't believe the stupidity of a guy rounding up several million animals and packing them into a boat and riding the seas for a few months. But in fact it all was just a illusion!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: It really was just because I truly believe in this religion I know nothing about in which I have the deep down desire to wrap women up in bed sheets before allowing them outdoors! Oh my... I guess I should of stocked up on that sale at bath sheets last week at Bed Bath and Beyond! CRAP! couldn't you have told me this a week ago! JESUS! ....oh wait... that's right I need to say ....um.. all ka? wait is that his name...
> 
> oh god the paranoia is strong with that idiot!


No, you are just a master baiter who uses half-truths and misinformation to derail threads having anything to do with Christianity.


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## paraquack

lancestar2 said:


> ...oh I guess I'm a muslim "wantabe" ...here all this time being an atheist ...
> 
> oh god the paranoia is strong with that idiot!


Admitting your problem is the first step! Not too many people would willing to admit such. Congratulations of that first step!


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## lancestar2

paraquack said:


> Admitting your problem is the first step! Not too many people would willing to admit such. Congratulations of that first step!


I was obviously being sarcastic! Surly you noticed that! ...and they say I'M the one who can't take a joke? eh... really!?


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## Beach Kowboy

For muslims.


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## lancestar2

Beach Kowboy said:


> For muslims.


actually... I think here is some BETTER music FROM Muslims! 

Turkey 96.4% Islam






Egypt 90% Islam






Yemeni : 65% of the Muslim population is Sunni and over 35% is Shia






Lebanon 59.7% Muslim





Who knew Muslims could produce some mildly entertaining music? hmm... that and it must be "laundry day" (notice the lack of bed sheets?) I guess perhaps your assumptions might be wrong?  *GASP*


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## BagLady

In our courts, throwing a drink on someone would be considered an assault. 
In the Primal Arena, ie; Dogs, Cats, Horses, Monkeys, etc..(and yes we are animals), any assault would be dealt with by either: Submission, or Aggression. 
Nothing has changed. It is not Evil. It is instinct. 
Yes, we have free will, education, etc., but, instinctive reaction will rule every time. (IMO)
Personally, I have been in a few fights, when I was young.(aggression) Now, being long in the tooth, if another woman threw a drink in my face, I'd say "Thank You, Can I have another?"... (submissive)


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## jro1

We knew this was coming, pray and prepare! 
wipes the sweat from his forehead, and goes back to his prepping................


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## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> ...well if you were defending me I would have been in a state of daze until you hit em once then I would pulling you off of the guy myself if I had to! Don't confuse people who "can't" defend themselves with people who "choose" not to. People don't have to respect me, people don't have to like me, but when you "defend" that person you make that person's actions less wrong by resorting to there level of physical violence. I am not prideful nor do the teachings of jesus tell us we should "demand respect" you show love towards everyone even the people that hate you... sure I may get a little smart mouthed haha (my only downfall I know haha) but overcoming that sense of rage and anger is much more enlightening and rewarding than any feeling of joy of punching somebody in the face.
> 
> who says we are entitled to the basic respect you are explaining? from what I learned they spit in the face of jesus! No I am not saying we should do that to one another hell no! what I am saying is that instead of hurting that person you turn the other check and walk away. I mean if jesus could why can't we? ...another point of Christians not following the example of jesus.


You must have a college education because that sounds like the kind of pussy ass bullshit they are teaching these days. Jesus could because He is God, I am not. This is the kind of crap logic that has led people to believe they can get away with throwing drinks on others and similar bullshit. About 30% of the world needs a good ass kicking to set them straight.
EDIT: That high moral stand is generally how a coward consoles themselves.


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## Inor

A good ass-kicking (without permanent damage) is just another form of education. But our pussified society is mortified that anybody should ever have to feel physical or emotional hurt. Screw that...


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## inceptor

A good defense in Texas is "That person just needed a good ass whoopin"

Lance, you should come visit 

A while back in Houston, some guy threatened to hit my wife. Being the ******* that I am, he was instantly aware he was about to get an ass whoopin. Now if I had the sensitivity training you have obviously had Lance, I would have calmly watched it happen and would have wanted to discuss it after he was finished. I guess I had a negative impact on his psyche.


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## lancestar2

jimb1972 said:


> You must have a college education because that sounds like the kind of pussy ass bullshit they are teaching these days. Jesus could because He is God, I am not. This is the kind of crap logic that has led people to believe they can get away with throwing drinks on others and similar bullshit. About 30% of the world needs a good ass kicking to set them straight.
> EDIT: *That high moral stand is generally how a coward consoles themselves.*


oh ok... dang guess the lord was a coward consoling himself and his members? *Unless you want to claim Different Rules for Different People!*

Does that also mean that torture is fine? Stoning, nailing to a cross, water-boarding, and other forums must be acceptable then? I mean when Jesus lives a non-violent lifestyle he is honorable but when I do i'm a "P***" ...why do you expect people to take you seriously if your rules and logic does not add up?

*EDIT* There is a difference between stopping a crime and reacting to somebody who has thrown a drink at you... If somebody is repeatedly hitting another person it's important to intervene... if somebody throws a drink at you that does not mean you get to start kicking and beating them... if you can't tell the difference between those 2 different situations then I can't help you in your quest for logic and understanding...


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## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> oh ok... dang guess the lord was a coward consoling himself and his members? *Unless you want to claim Different Rules for Different People!*
> 
> Does that also mean that torture is fine? Stoning, nailing to a cross, water-boarding, and other forums must be acceptable then? I mean when Jesus lives a non-violent lifestyle he is honorable but when I do i'm a "P***" ...why do you expect people to take you seriously if your rules and logic does not add up?
> 
> *EDIT* There is a difference between stopping a crime and reacting to somebody who has thrown a drink at you... If somebody is repeatedly hitting another person it's important to intervene... if somebody throws a drink at you that does not mean you get to start kicking and beating them... if you can't tell the difference between those 2 different situations then I can't help you in your quest for logic and understanding...


I thought throwing a drink at someone was assault, if it is then by beating the crap out of the offender you are indeed stopping a crime. Cowardice is not sacrificing yourself knowing torture and death await to save your followers, if you can't see the difference between those two situations I can't help you in your quest for logic. Lance you are a typical Liberal troll hoping to inflame someones passions in an effort to get them to say something you can pounce on as intolerant.


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## lancestar2

jimb1972 said:


> I thought throwing a drink at someone was assault, if it is then by beating the crap out of the offender you are indeed stopping a crime. Cowardice is not sacrificing yourself knowing torture and death await to save your followers, if you can't see the difference between those two situations I can't help you in your quest for logic. Lance you are a typical Liberal troll hoping to inflame someones passions in an effort to get them to say something you can pounce on as intolerant.


...you ignore my question completely ok.. Guess you have no argument or opinion against my statement? Say what you want I don't care it's your opinion and your option to voice your opinion... you want to ignore my question then you do so on your own terms don't point the finger at me...

Yes, it is assault, however the act of the throwing the drink was over within 2 seconds and she walked away pretty quick... so following her to kick her would have been retaliation NOT defending yourself... Your ego would have been hurt I get it.. Does not mean you need to beat her until she was injured to "teach her a lesson" They spit in the face of jesus and he didn't come down off the cross and beat them... they whipped him too and he didn't get up and whoop there asses. I get the fact you want to claim he died for our sins and it was a special event... but they you argue if that if somebody chooses to live like jesus and live and non-violent lifestyle they are weak minded or a P**** is beyond offensive IMO. It jesus is spouse to be your source of morality and source of streanth in your religion... how can you look at his actions as strong and couragious... but when others do the same thing (even to a far far lesser scale!) they are wrong, weak minded and a coward?

Honestly what is YOUR opinion intolerant or not offensive or not WHAT IS YOUR OPINION how do you justify it? That is my purpose is to get answers on how people justify there religion and to gain answers to make religion more logical and realistic for me to believe in.... is your faith blind faith in which you don't ask questions and don't fully understand? Do you simply don't know why this is or don't wish to think about it? Or do you simply.... what!?


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## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> ...you ignore my question completely ok.. Guess you have no argument or opinion against my statement? Say what you want I don't care it's your opinion and your option to voice your opinion... you want to ignore my question then you do so on your own terms don't point the finger at me...
> 
> Yes, it is assault, however the act of the throwing the drink was over within 2 seconds and she walked away pretty quick... so following her to kick her would have been retaliation NOT defending yourself... Your ego would have been hurt I get it.. Does not mean you need to beat her until she was injured to "teach her a lesson" They spit in the face of jesus and he didn't come down off the cross and beat them... they whipped him too and he didn't get up and whoop there asses. I get the fact you want to claim he died for our sins and it was a special event... but they you argue if that if somebody chooses to live like jesus and live and non-violent lifestyle they are weak minded or a P**** is beyond offensive IMO. It jesus is spouse to be your source of morality and source of streanth in your religion... how can you look at his actions as strong and couragious... but when others do the same thing (even to a far far lesser scale!) they are wrong, weak minded and a coward?
> 
> Honestly what is YOUR opinion intolerant or not offensive or not WHAT IS YOUR OPINION how do you justify it? That is my purpose is to get answers on how people justify there religion and to gain answers to make religion more logical and realistic for me to believe in.... is your faith blind faith in which you don't ask questions and don't fully understand? Do you simply don't know why this is or don't wish to think about it? Or do you simply.... what!?


Lance knowing the end result is what differentiates cowardice and courage in this case. I did answer your question you were just too thick headed to comprehend the answer.


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## lancestar2

jimb1972 said:


> Lance knowing the end result is what differentiates cowardice and courage in this case. I did answer your question you were just too thick headed to comprehend the answer.


knowing the end result is what is important? I thought jesus didn't know the end result when he was human and looked up to god for bravery when he said cried out ""My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

..Also it would be nice if you didn't lace your response with insults... but you can keep doing so if you insist... I do tend to notice that when I debate religion I usually get that style of insults calling me dumb, stupid, not good enough ect ect. Be nice if we can stick to the arguments to help the exchange of information...

I get it you think I'm stupid because I don't understand and believe your religion... stop remind me of your opinions on my education level and share your opinions on your religion thanks 

but back to the topic from what the bible teaches Jesus had a conversation with god at many times though there is one god they were divided as jesus went down to earth was he still all knowing or was he truly just man... because if he was all knowing still then that would explain your concept better... if not then when jesus was "tempted by the devil" was he really tempted if he was all knowing and knew what he was going to be faced with and knew what would happen? ...idk perhaps these are weird questions but don't you need to believe in something that one feels is logical and capable of happening?

But again not trying to troll you and I'm sorry if im asking you difficult questions if you don't have an answer to them then I guess you don't Either way I truly hope you don't get to frustrated over some questions about your opinion.


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## Inor

Lance - 

What is so difficult for you to understand here? If somebody intentionally throws a drink on you, it is right to bust them in the face and break their nose or knock out a few teeth. Nobody is talking about killing them or doing permanent damage. It is not that difficult of a concept to grasp.


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## Slippy

Inor said:


> Lance -
> 
> What is so difficult for you to understand here? If somebody intentionally throws a drink on you, it is right to bust them in the face and break their nose or knock out a few teeth. Nobody is talking about killing them or doing permanent damage. It is not that difficult of a concept to grasp.


"It" who refers to himself as the lancestar2 is incapable of understanding even the simplest of things. "It" is an excellent example of a failed education system and of failed social engineering.


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## MrsInor

I suggest Lance take a theology class. Perhaps a professor would have the patience to deal with his grammar, punctuation and spelling issues.


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## ordnance21xx

MrsInor said:


> Harvard's satanic black mass to be held despite growing outrage | Fox News
> 
> People have posted news links about Islamic religious laws being upheld here in the US. News links that tell of kids unable to read their bibles in school or wear Christian themed apparel or jewelry.
> 
> It does seem that Christians are under attack.
> 
> Perhaps this is one of the reasons the usually quiet conservatives are beginning to speak out.


Both are under attack, be prepared! MOLON LABE


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## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> knowing the end result is what is important? I thought jesus didn't know the end result when he was human and looked up to god for bravery when he said cried out ""My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"
> 
> ..Also it would be nice if you didn't lace your response with insults... but you can keep doing so if you insist... I do tend to notice that when I debate religion I usually get that style of insults calling me dumb, stupid, not good enough ect ect. Be nice if we can stick to the arguments to help the exchange of information...
> 
> I get it you think I'm stupid because I don't understand and believe your religion... stop remind me of your opinions on my education level and share your opinions on your religion thanks
> 
> but back to the topic from what the bible teaches Jesus had a conversation with god at many times though there is one god they were divided as jesus went down to earth was he still all knowing or was he truly just man... because if he was all knowing still then that would explain your concept better... if not then when jesus was "tempted by the devil" was he really tempted if he was all knowing and knew what he was going to be faced with and knew what would happen? ...idk perhaps these are weird questions but don't you need to believe in something that one feels is logical and capable of happening?
> 
> But again not trying to troll you and I'm sorry if im asking you difficult questions if you don't have an answer to them then I guess you don't Either way I truly hope you don't get to frustrated over some questions about your opinion.


You started it with the comments about my logic. Here it is plain and simple for you, this is something your father should have taught you, but since He did not teach it or at least you did not learn it here it is. Power is what truly differentiates between cowardice and courage. If someone considerably weaker than you assaults you there is both courage and honor in restraint. If someone your equal or more powerful than you assaults you and you do nothing you are a pussy. Power is the difference between Jesus (courageous) and you (pussy)


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## lancestar2

Inor said:


> Lance -
> 
> What is so difficult for you to understand here? If somebody intentionally throws a drink on you, it is right to bust them in the face and break their nose or knock out a few teeth. Nobody is talking about killing them or doing permanent damage. It is not that difficult of a concept to grasp.


because that would have been an act of revenge or retaliation. Secondly like I said when jesus did it he was brave and honorable, when other embody his lifestyle by being non-violent they are cowards. It's the double standard that I don't understand. If life is truly only but a test and a means of passing that test to get to heaven then why should we worry about things beyond our own actions (such as what kinda of example it gives others) Christianity teaches us to be good and we go to heaven right? well then why does it not encourage us to be like jesus but instead to behave like animals in the animal kingdom as mentioned a page or two ago.

There is just so many holes I just can't see any type of reasoning for what you are explaining... do you honestly think god would be encouraging you to beat and punch her for her actions? Honestly! You think jesus and god would think you were behaving good and you had just reason?

If there is the "double standard" then how are we spose to know how we should live? I mean if it goes not matter if we are violent then maybe it would be OK to shove people around more? Maybe it's ok, to throw the first punch when the cause is "just" such as when somebody is spreading lies? What about if that person has a false god? Perhaps throwing the first punch and defending your god is just? ...could it be? thoughts?


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## Slippy

MrsInor said:


> I suggest Lance take a theology class. Perhaps a professor would have the patience to deal with his grammar, punctuation and spelling issues.


Doubtful. Since lance is a homosexual, no one in the liberal education system will ever criticize him, attempt to correct him, or say anything remotely "insensitive" to him out of fear of being labeled "intolerant" to ****.


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## lancestar2

MrsInor said:


> I suggest Lance take a theology class. Perhaps a professor would have the patience to deal with his grammar, punctuation and spelling issues.


If the only thing you can argue and debate me on is my grammar, punctuation and spelling mistakes that surly speaks volumes... Your welcome to voice your opinion if that is a false statement...


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## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> If the only thing you can argue and debate me on is my grammar, punctuation and spelling mistakes that surly speaks volumes... Your welcome to voice your opinion if that is a false statement...


There is much more to argue than just your poor grammar. Your basic understanding of Christianity is faulty as well. Life is not a test that at the end you will have passed or failed, everyone will have failed. Do not present yourself as someone open to debate when you have already staked out your position. I have little doubt that your only purpose is to try to destroy the faith of others, a faith you find offensive and naive. While I may not subscribe to every facet of some Christian faiths, I see no point in trying to attack the faith of others. Once again you are nothing but a troll, condemning those things the party did not teach you. There are a great many things believed in unseen, dark matter, black holes, particles, and in science it is considered OK to believe in something because you have seen it's effect on the world. It is only regarding faith that liberals and atheists say I can not see God therefore God does not exist.


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## spokes

I think things have drifted away from the original question.

Is Christianity under fire in America. IMHO-Mind you this is MY opinion of which I am completely entitled to and do not expect to come under fire, that answer is Yes, I do think that. The existence or not of God or what Jesus had for breakfast is not the debate here. We all have the right to believe or not believe the way we see fit. That right is coming under fire every single day in this country.

Is our freedom of speech under fire? Also IMHO, Yes it is, I also think that. The first Amendment is also under fire daily in the news, whether it is on line, on TV or the written word, and it is being done so slickly and so covertly, that like the general liberal agenda, so gradually that nobody is really noticing it until it is festering and too infected to deal with in a safe way.

Me that the religious debate is chasing it's own tail at this point.


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## jimb1972

All freedom is under attack, the Satanists/Muslims/etc. are just being used to break the largest group, Christianities influence on our country. Once Christianity is diminished they will turn on the others. There is no god but the State, from each according to his ability to each according to his need...


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## spokes

That's supposed to be 'Me thinks that the religious debate is chasing it's own tail at this point' For some reason my edit option isn't working.


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## Beach Kowboy

We have a muslim for president! What did we think was goin to happen? He can say all he wants he isn't a muslim any more and I will NEVER believe it. He HAD to say that because there was no way even the Sheeple would elect a muslim YET. Look how much he caters to them.. Just like Reverend Wright. He went to his church all those years and were friends. Then all of the sudden he is goin to run for president and he decides he is not going to that church anymore, nor does he believe what wright is preachin and he is no longer the friend of wright. Right at election time.. Come on people, how ****ing stupid are we???!!!

But nope, he is black and that is just what we need to fix this country! The MSM shove it down the throats of everyone and look what we have. Personally, along with pelosibitch,fein**** and feid****er. The ceo's and other top officials and even quite a few journalists should go for a swim deep in the gulfstream!


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## jimb1972

Beach Kowboy said:


> We have a muslim for president! What did we think was goin to happen? He can say all he wants he isn't a muslim any more and I will NEVER believe it. He HAD to say that because there was no way even the Sheeple would elect a muslim YET. Look how much he caters to them.. Just like Reverend Wright. He went to his church all those years and were friends. Then all of the sudden he is goin to run for president and he decides he is not going to that church anymore, nor does he believe what wright is preachin and he is no longer the friend of wright. Right at election time.. Come on people, how ****ing stupid are we???!!!
> 
> But nope, he is black and that is just what we need to fix this country! The MSM shove it down the throats of everyone and look what we have. Personally, along with pelosibitch,fein**** and feid****er. The ceo's and other top officials and even quite a few journalists should go for a swim deep in the gulfstream!


Don't forget **** Schumer. I don't think Obama has any faith, He is just an appeasing modern day Chamberlain.


----------



## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> knowing the end result is what is important? I thought jesus didn't know the end result when he was human and looked up to god for bravery when he said cried out ""My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"
> 
> ..Also it would be nice if you didn't lace your response with insults... but you can keep doing so if you insist... I do tend to notice that when I debate religion I usually get that style of insults calling me dumb, stupid, not good enough ect ect. Be nice if we can stick to the arguments to help the exchange of information...
> 
> I get it you think I'm stupid because I don't understand and believe your religion... stop remind me of your opinions on my education level and share your opinions on your religion thanks
> 
> but back to the topic from what the bible teaches Jesus had a conversation with god at many times though there is one god they were divided as jesus went down to earth was he still all knowing or was he truly just man... because if he was all knowing still then that would explain your concept better... if not then when jesus was "tempted by the devil" was he really tempted if he was all knowing and knew what he was going to be faced with and knew what would happen? ...idk perhaps these are weird questions but don't you need to believe in something that one feels is logical and capable of happening?
> 
> But again not trying to troll you and I'm sorry if im asking you difficult questions if you don't have an answer to them then I guess you don't Either way I truly hope you don't get to frustrated over some questions about your opinion.


This form of communication is the written form; your education and intelligence will be judged by your grasp of the language. Why is this earth-shattering? Didn't you attend school?

You don't understand Christianity, nor do you accept Christ as your savior. Yes, we understand that. Then again, you are the one who claims some sort of long ingrained Christian tradition from your childhood but your understanding of that can be likened to your grasp of the language. Sure, you sat in class, but you didn't take away all that you should have taken.

Yes, Lancaster, you are trolling. How many times have you done this, and you think we shouldn't have the ability to remember? You are always on the lookout for any thread that has anything to do with Christianity so that you can bait and troll. You feign interest as you derail threads. You come across as being thick-headed and only needing a little more patience from those willing to engage. Your tactics are always the same, such as asking the same questions as if nobody has offered an answer. Your grasp of the language is not that bad, and nobody is that stupid.

That you deny this fact makes you a liar. Before you claim victim status, recall the post where you referred to another member as an idiot. There; I saved you from making yourself a hypocrite.


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## MrsInor

Once again:

your - possessive as in "It is your inability to write correctly that causes others to think you are uneducated".

you're - contraction (you are) as in "You're not entirely stupid".


----------



## lancestar2

jimb1972 said:


> There is much more to argue than just your poor grammar. Your basic understanding of Christianity is faulty as well. Life is not a test that at the end you will have passed or failed, everyone will have failed. Do not present yourself as someone open to debate when you have already staked out your position. I have little doubt that your only purpose is to try to destroy the faith of others, a faith you find offensive and naive. While I may not subscribe to every facet of some Christian faiths, I see no point in trying to attack the faith of others. Once again you are nothing but a troll, condemning those things the party did not teach you. There are a great many things believed in unseen, dark matter, black holes, particles, and in science it is considered OK to believe in something because you have seen it's effect on the world. It is only regarding faith that liberals and atheists say I can not see God therefore God does not exist.


oh ok I didn't know that everyone fails at the test... then what is the purpose in your opinion of the faith?


----------



## lancestar2

Denton said:


> This form of communication is the written form; your education and intelligence will be judged by your grasp of the language. Why is this earth-shattering? Didn't you attend school?
> 
> You don't understand Christianity, nor do you accept Christ as your savior. Yes, we understand that. Then again, you are the one who claims some sort of long ingrained Christian tradition from your childhood but your understanding of that can be likened to your grasp of the language. Sure, you sat in class, but you didn't take away all that you should have taken.
> 
> Yes, Lancaster, you are trolling. How many times have you done this, and you think we shouldn't have the ability to remember? You are always on the lookout for any thread that has anything to do with Christianity so that you can bait and troll. You feign interest as you derail threads. You come across as being thick-headed and only needing a little more patience from those willing to engage. Your tactics are always the same, such as asking the same questions as if nobody has offered an answer. Your grasp of the language is not that bad, and nobody is that stupid.
> 
> That you deny this fact makes you a liar. Before you claim victim status, recall the post where you referred to another member as an idiot. There; I saved you from making yourself a hypocrite.


well im sorry I'm not as smart and educated as you are... but if you will bear with my stupidity and help me understand your way of thinking then perhaps you can educate me... well that is if I am not to stupid and not worth of the high level of knowledge that you hold inside your own mind...

but feel free to enlighten me on how smart you are and how perhaps you can help me obtain once little bit of smartness by helping me answer my questions... because obviously I am to stupid to answer them myself...

...enough with the people trying to call me stupid I F**in get it you want to belittle me, disrespect me, and marginalize me, that's fine just at least you can share with me some of your vast knowledge and help me understand can't you?


----------



## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> oh ok I didn't know that everyone fails at the test... then what is the purpose in your opinion of the faith?


For someone with such an extensive religious background I find it hard to believe that you did not know that no matter how hard man tries we will always fall short of living up to God's standard, that is where grace and Jesus death on the cross come in. But I know I am wasting my time here with pearls before swine and all that.
Now answer my question why do you troll the boards for any discussion on faith? Is something missing in your life leaving you feeling empty? Why are homosexuals called gay when they suffer from depression at a much higher rate than society in general?


----------



## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> well im sorry I'm not as smart and educated as you are... but if you will bear with my stupidity and help me understand your way of thinking then perhaps you can educate me... well that is if I am not to stupid and not worth of the high level of knowledge that you hold inside your own mind...
> 
> but feel free to enlighten me on how smart you are and how perhaps you can help me obtain once little bit of smartness by helping me answer my questions... because obviously I am to stupid to answer them myself...
> 
> ...enough with the people trying to call me stupid I F**in get it you want to belittle me, disrespect me, and marginalize me, that's fine just at least you can share with me some of your vast knowledge and help me understand can't you?


You bring it on yourself, it is not just your questioning of peoples faith, but the attitude that comes through in your writing. Look down your nose at the people who have faith, consider yourself lucky to be too rational and logical to believe, but then ask yourself are you happy? How is it working out for you?


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## Lucky Jim

Jesus outlined the core principles of Christianity thus:-

_"Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor" (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)
_

It therefore follows that anybody who's anti-Christian must be either a nut, a pervert, a commie or oddball cultist ..


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## lancestar2

jimb1972 said:


> For someone with such an extensive religious background I find it hard to believe that you did not know that no matter how hard man tries we will always fall short of living up to God's standard, that is where grace and Jesus death on the cross come in. But I know I am wasting my time here with pearls before swine and all that.
> Now answer my question why do you troll the boards for any discussion on faith? Is something missing in your life leaving you feeling empty? Why are homosexuals called gay when they suffer from depression at a much higher rate than society in general?


That is the purpose of confessing your sins and then becoming right with god again, isn't that correct? If you ask for his forgivness and repent of your sins then your in god's good graces again and are forgiven then it is possible to "pass" the test with that in mind. Which goes back to my question of why it's wrong to try to be like jesus in being a non-violent person it's considered cowardly? How can trying to be more like jesus be shameful and cowardly? That's what I don't get. Also I would still argue the point of life is to pass the test and become in gods good graces is it not?



jimb1972 said:


> You bring it on yourself, it is not just your questioning of peoples faith, but the attitude that comes through in your writing. Look down your nose at the people who have faith, consider yourself lucky to be too rational and logical to believe, but then ask yourself are you happy? How is it working out for you?


I will admit I was much happier when I belived in Santa and the Easter bunny too it was some good times when my dad used to dress up as santa and scare us with a visit once a year... lol good times... I was never one for the BLUE pill I always was to nosy even as a kid haha


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## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> That is the purpose of confessing your sins and then becoming right with god again, isn't that correct? If you ask for his forgivness and repent of your sins then your in god's good graces again and are forgiven then it is possible to "pass" the test with that in mind. Which goes back to my question of why it's wrong to try to be like jesus in being a non-violent person it's considered cowardly? How can trying to be more like jesus be shameful and cowardly? That's what I don't get. Also I would still argue the point of life is to pass the test and become in gods good graces is it not?
> 
> I will admit I was much happier when I belived in Santa and the Easter bunny too it was some good times when my dad used to dress up as santa and scare us with a visit once a year... lol good times... I was never one for the BLUE pill I always was to nosy even as a kid haha


You still have not answered the questions I asked. I have noticed you only want to ask questions and you tend to change the subject when inconvenient ones are asked of you. Are you actually trying to be like Jesus or is that just a convenient excuse? I find it interesting that you claim to follow his teachings as a non-believer. My beliefs do not follow any faith entirely because I think the bible was given to a people in a form they could understand at that time and probably does not contain all truth and it was delivered through men, no work can be perfect when poor quality tools are used. Rather than debate my beliefs with others of faith I choose to remain silent on many points since argument or disagreement in matters of faith rarely lead to agreement or enlightenment and we are generally in agreement on the big points.


----------



## inceptor

I thought y'all would have figured out by now not to feed the trolls. Like 51% of our current population, they keep coming back for more.


----------



## Inor

Good idea Inceptor!


----------



## oddapple

I'm sorry but I had to have a copy of that "troll spray" - love it


----------



## Inor

oddapple said:


> I'm sorry but I had to have a copy of that "troll spray" - love it


It's all good. I stole it from somebody else. 

Here are a couple others I collected recently if you want them:


----------



## lancestar2

jimb1972 said:


> You still have not answered the questions I asked. I have noticed you only want to ask questions and you tend to change the subject when inconvenient ones are asked of you. *Are you actually trying to be like Jesus or is that just a convenient excuse?* I find it interesting that you claim to follow his teachings as a non-believer. My beliefs do not follow any faith entirely because I think the bible was given to a people in a form they could understand at that time and probably does not contain all truth and it was delivered through men, no work can be perfect when poor quality tools are used. Rather than debate my beliefs with others of faith I choose to remain silent on many points since argument or disagreement in matters of faith rarely lead to agreement or enlightenment and we are generally in agreement on the big points.


In recent years as I have grown older I have been discovering the meaning and purpose to life. From that experience I find that living a lifestyle as closely to jesus's lifestyle is one that is desirable... Some example of that is turning away from consumerism and going into a minimalist lifestyle really does feel empowering and better than being obsessed with obtaining objects of earthly status. I do agree with your point of good tools is needed to produce good quality work I completely agree as to when it's good tools/vs excessive is always up to the person to decide.. I'm sure the previous pope would argue his expensive red shoes were part of that process lol

I can't say I want to live just like jesus because that's not completely true I enjoy modern convenience items and I have little desire to have a job in construction or carpentry (though runny story I did help build a house before so I have some experience there too haha) The behaviors and morals of jesus I think are desirable to some extend... I don't think I will ever want to walk the deserts spreading the word of god because I don't completely believe it to be a literal thing...

I may be an atheist but I think the general concepts of religion is right. Also to clear up another possible confusion you may have is why do I as an atheist "follow" religion? Well for example let's take the story of the wizard of oz. Dorthy is a person in the movie who overcomes challenges on her journey and does not stop until she get to the wizard and asks for help to find her way back home... well I could also say I want to be like Dorthy in being I want to be the type of person who also does not stop until I reach the end of my journey... I know it's a stretch but it's an example of how you don't have to believe in god in order for you to gain from it's wisdom and possible superior lifestyle.

I'm sure perhaps some type of learning or enlightenment will occur if we answers each others questions to help both of us understand the other persons opinions and belief structure


----------



## Casie

Some great posts in this thread! I really don't have anything to add. But I do have some fun stuff to share.









Mr Martel is 5x5 when he says, "Turn the other cheek does not mean be a pacifist". *Jesus is warning against responding to evil in kind by letting the oppressor set the terms of our opposition.* The common response to being wronged at the time, was "An eye for an eye." This had gotten so out of hand, that any tiny perceived slight was met with escalating violence. The message Jesus was conveying was simply, *do not become the thing you hate*.

_And I know you have all heard this one before, but it's just so good!:_

*The Marine and the Atheist Professor*

A college professor, an avowed Atheist, was teaching his class. He shocked several of his students when he flatly stated he was going to prove there was no God. Addressing the ceiling he shouted: "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you 15 minutes!"

The lecture room fell silent. You could have heard a pin fall. Ten minutes went by. Again he taunted God, saying, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting."

His count-down got down to the last couple of minutes when a Marine - just released from active duty and newly registered in the class - walked up to the professor, punched him full force in the mouth.

The students were shocked and babbled in confusion. The young Marine took a seat in the front row and sat silent. The class fell silent...waiting. Eventually, the professor came to, shaken he looked at the young Marine in the front row and whined, "What's the matter with you? Why did you do that!?"

"God was busy. He sent the Marines."

_I love that one so much!_ 
_Ok, I know one more interesting fun fact._

*Ann Barnhardt taught me Judas was the first socialist.* _From her website:_

The weekend before His Passion, Jesus went and stayed with His friend Lazarus (whom He had raised from the dead) and Lazarus' sisters Martha and Mary. Mary brought out a very expensive flask of ointment for the dead and applied it to Jesus' feet with her hair. The whole house was filled with the sweet smell of that ointment. And guess who gets all mouthy about this? Yep. Judas Iscariot - who already was planning to sell out Jesus, and had been planning on cashing in on Him since the miracle of the loaves and fishes a few days earlier. Specifically, when Jesus told the people that they must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, and kept repeating it over and over and over again to be sure that everyone understood that He meant it literally, Judas (with urging from satan) decided that Our Lord was nuts and started planning to betray Him and profit from it. That whole episode is in John chapter 6.

Back to Lazarus' house in John 12. Judas gets all holier-than-thou and complains that the flask of ointment could have been sold for 300 pence and "given to the poor". Does this not sound like the godless Marxist liberals of today who are so quick to tell everyone else what they should be doing with their money and assets, all in the name of the poor, of course?

Then, an absolutely delightful verse - verse 6:

*"Now he said this, not because he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and having the purse, carried the things therein."*

That verse should make the hair on your arms stand up. Is this not a PERFECT mapping to our contemporary situation? You have a "disciple" who doesn't really believe in Jesus or what He says - he just pretends to because he thinks he can gain power and wealth by associating with Jesus for now. He's just working the "Jesus angle". But everything he is doing behind the scenes is working in direct opposition to Our Lord. Now, this "disciple" starts trying to appear pious and devout by pontificating that all wealth and resources should, by definition, be redistributed to "the poor". But in truth, he is just a thief.

Now here is the key passage from Jesus Himself:

*"Jesus therefore said: Let her alone, that she may keep it against the day of My burial. For the poor you have always with you; but Me you have not always."*

First of all, Jesus says, *"Let her alone." (Sinite illam.)*

Judas has appointed himself the arbiter of wealth and asset distribution and has decided that Mary's flask of ointment (or the cash value thereof) should have gone to the poor. And Jesus says, "Let her alone."

It is hers to do with as she (and her family) sees fit, and they have seen fit to use it to anoint their beloved Jesus.

Judas, sit down and shut your proto-Marxist piehole.

In the next phrase, Jesus explains economics in eight words (FIVE in Latin):
"For the poor you have always with you." 
(Pauperes enim semper habetis vobiscum.)

What does He mean? He is explaining is that in all free societies wealth will always exist within a SPECTRUM.

What constitutes a "poor" person in the U.S.? A "poor" person in the U.S. has a standard of living that would be considered luxurious in Bangladesh and other impoverished countries. The notions of "wealth" and "poverty", by logical and mathematical definition, exist within a SPECTRUM. And no matter what we do, that spectrum will always, always exist. That is what Jesus is saying.

There will always be a top-end, and there will always be a bottom-end. No matter how much you bring up the bottom-end, there will ALWAYS, by mathematical definition, BE a bottom-end.

Someone is always going to have more money and assets than somebody else. It is impossible to have a free society wherein every person has exactly the same level of wealth. Someone has to be the business OWNER, and someone has to be the EMPLOYEE. Someone has to be the wage PAYER and someone has to be the wage EARNER. If everyone in a culture was economically equal at all times, there would be zero employment because no one would work for anyone except themselves. You can't have a company with 10,000 CEOs. Conversely, you can't have a company that is nothing but entry-level laborers. Someone has to be responsible. Someone has to sign the paychecks. Someone has to determine the course of the business. Someone has to risk their assets and wealth to start-up the company in the first place. And, at the other end, someone has to scrub the toilets. The only way to get true, complete equality of wealth would be to KILL EVERYBODY.


----------



## Deebo

An atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, “Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger.”

The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, “What would you want to talk about?”

” Oh, I don’t know,” said the atheist. “How about why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?” as he smiled smugly.

“OK,” she said. “Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff – grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?”

The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl’s intelligence, thinks about it and says, “Hmmm, I have no idea.”

To which the little girl replies, “Do you really feel qualified to discuss why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death, when you don’t know shit?”

And then she went back to reading her book. 








Somebody put this a while back, when we had this same conversation with Lance, and I just had to go find it.


----------



## lancestar2

Deebo said:


> An atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, "Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."
> 
> The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, "What would you want to talk about?"
> 
> " Oh, I don't know," said the atheist. "How about why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?" as he smiled smugly.
> 
> "OK," she said. "Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?"
> 
> The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, "Hmmm, I have no idea."
> 
> To which the little girl replies, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death, when you don't know shit?"
> 
> And then she went back to reading her book.
> 
> Somebody put this a while back, when we had this same conversation with Lance, and I just had to go find it.


..ah I remember that posting. When you hear it what do you think about? When I hear it I hear people reassuring themselves that these are topics and questions they don't want to discuss. That is find you don't have to join this discussion if you don't want to... but to encourage others to also not participate is trying to get others to conform to your own views.

Like I said before the people I respect the most are people that are firm in there beliefs and know what the belief in and why. Some times thoes people are deeply religious people that devote there entire lives in honoring god and I have nothing but the most respect and honor for them... but saddly most people I know have no idea what they think or believe in. While a decent amount have a general idea of what the believe in..

I'm not here to convert anybody I don't care nor have the time haha... I simply ask questions to gain more understanding about what you believe. If these questions offend or share your belief structure then I suggest you take note and work on growing stronger in your faith if not you will float away in the slightest of storms...

..but in regards to my lack of qualifications to discuss god as explained in your story then who does have qualifications? Ideally nobody... meaning the moral of the story would be that nobody can divert from the message that god exist. If that is true then why do we need seperation of church and state? Wouldn't it be ideal to combine them to ensure nobody defies our Christianity? Yes, were a country of many religions but couldn't we section off states and regions by religions in which those states could self govern like states?


----------



## Casie

Nah. It just means the little girl recognized the chatty stranger in the seat next to her was a smug, jack-ass and she wanted to make him stop talking so she could go back to enjoying her book.


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## lancestar2

Casie said:


> Nah. It just means the little girl recognized the chatty stranger in the seat next to her was a smug, jack-ass and she wanted to make him stop talking so she could go back to enjoying her book.


oh ok then Casie go ahead and go back to your book  we can continue the conversation without you that's fine.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Deebo said:


> ....To which the little girl replies [to the atheist], "Do you really feel qualified to discuss why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death, when you don't know shit?"


Speaking of shite, most atheists sure as hell bore the krap out of me, they're jumpy, irritable, uptight shallow pains-in-the-ass because they've got no spiritual depth.
Gimme good Christians anytime to hang with in a SHTF situation, they're cool, calm, unflappable and fearless, it shows in their eyes..

_*"For we look at things unseen rather than the seen,for the seen are temporary, but the unseen are eternal" (2 Cor 4:18)*_

_"My Christian faith has been such a backbone through so many difficult times. For me Christianity is about being strengthened"- Bear Grylls _









_"God makes His reality so obvious to us in His creation and in the little mini-miracles that happen everyday"- Becky St. James_









_"To look out at this kind of creation out here and not believe in God is to me impossible, it just strengthens my faith"- John Glenn_


----------



## inceptor

This pretty much states how they operate


----------



## Lucky Jim

_God said- "Raise a banner on a bare hilltop, I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath..they come from faraway lands..to destroy the whole country..and destroy the sinners within it" (Isaiah ch 13)_









US troops after capturing Baghdad International Airport, 2003









_"The spider taketh hold with her hands, and is in kings palaces"- Proverbs 30:28 KJV_
US troops near one of Saddam Hussein's abandoned palaces in Bayji, Iraq 2008









Christianity WORKS, just like it says on the box, it's a concept that atheists and nonchristians can't or won't understand.
It's a POWER thing..

_"Our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with *POWER*"-1 Thess 1:5
"For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of *POWER*"- 2 Tim 1:7
"I am full of *POWER*, judgement and might by the spirit of the Lord"- Micah 3:8
"Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty *POWER*"- Ephesians 6:10
"After Jesus spent the night in prayer,everybody tried to touch him because *POWER* was coming from him"- Luke 6:12-19
Jesus said - "Someone touched me, I know that *POWER* has gone out from me"- Luke 8:46_

And we too can "touch" Jesus by logging onto him to get a 'power download', just mumbling a few words now and again will get us connected, even if it's just "Jesus remember me", whenever we're feeling tired, lonely, fed up..


----------



## Deebo

no more discussions, from Deebo, becouse honestly, Deebo is tired of trying to "justify" my GOD to someone, who makes fun, replies omg, and then says he "just wants someone to show him Jesus".
I aint perfect, I have punched many a deserving asshole in the face, and I am man enough to accept any consequences from doing so. 
Lance, for me to try to explain my GOD to you would be like you trying to "make me homosexual". Just aint gonna happen, and we both have a headache.
So, along the lines of free speech, and trying to be civilized. Goodby, and goodluck. I hope you find who/what your looking for.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Deebo said:


> ..Deebo is tired of trying to "justify" my GOD to someone, who makes fun, replies omg, and then says he "just wants someone to show him Jesus"


27 books were written about Jesus, then bound into one volume and called "The New Testament", that's where anybody can find him..
I kinda like the guy, that's all he wants from any of us-

_"You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends"- (John 15:15)_









_"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!..The prostitutes are entering God's kingdom ahead of you, you think you look good in your fancy robes but inside you're full of filth, corruption, greed and wickednes" (Matt 23:27,Matt 21:31,Luke 11:39-41)_


----------



## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> well im sorry I'm not as smart and educated as you are... but if you will bear with my stupidity and help me understand your way of thinking then perhaps you can educate me... well that is if I am not to stupid and not worth of the high level of knowledge that you hold inside your own mind...
> 
> but feel free to enlighten me on how smart you are and how perhaps you can help me obtain once little bit of smartness by helping me answer my questions... because obviously I am to stupid to answer them myself...
> 
> ...enough with the people trying to call me stupid I F**in get it you want to belittle me, disrespect me, and marginalize me, that's fine just at least you can share with me some of your vast knowledge and help me understand can't you?


Oh, poor victim, you are. Poor, poor victim. As usual. Stir up crap and become the victim when it is realized you are holding the paddle.

Knowledge has been shared with you. You don't want it. You are not here for that. You are here to warp, twist and derail any conversation that has anything to do with Christianity. That is to say, you are an habitual troll.

By the way; are you saying you didn't make it to the ninth grade? You say I am more educated than you. I don't know that I am, but I know I have not displayed any language skill learned after the ninth grade.


----------



## jimb1972

Denton said:


> Oh, poor victim, you are. Poor, poor victim. As usual. Stir up crap and become the victim when it is realized you are holding the paddle.
> 
> Knowledge has been shared with you. You don't want it. You are not here for that. You are here to warp, twist and derail any conversation that has anything to do with Christianity. That is to say, you are an habitual troll.
> 
> By the way; are you saying you didn't make it to the ninth grade? You say I am more educated than you. I don't know that I am, but I know I have not displayed any language skill learned after the ninth grade.


Unforunately Denton I think the language skills we learned in middle school are now taught to college seniors. (sometimes)


----------



## MrsInor

jimb1972 said:


> Unforunately Denton I think the language skills we learned in middle school are now taught to college seniors. (sometimes)


Unless as a college senior you get an automatic bye - athletes, add/adhd, dyslexia, minority, gay, etc.


----------



## Lucky Jim

_*Lancestar* said to somebody: "well im sorry I'm not as smart and educated as you are... but if you will bear with my stupidity and help me understand your way of thinking then perhaps you can educate me"_

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chill dood, fools with college degrees are still just fools, they're often too clever for their own good..
Jesus said:-_ "I thank you Father for hiding these things from the wise and learned,and for revealing them to little children"(Matt 11:25-27)
"When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus" (Acts 4:13)_

Who did Jesus say was the greatest man ever to be born?
Some famous brainbox or King maybe? Or one of the ancient prophets? A wise philosopher or mystic perhaps?
Nah!
Jesus's cousin John was a young world-rejecter living rough in the middle of nowhere eating wild food and dressed in near-rags, sometimes going in town to yell insults at the snooty priests and corrupt rulers.
Jesus's verdict on him? -
_*"John is the greatest man ever to be born" (Matt 11:11)*_

John vs Herod and Salome-


----------



## inceptor

Casie said:


> Nah. It just means the little girl recognized the chatty stranger in the seat next to her was a smug, jack-ass and she wanted to make him stop talking so she could go back to enjoying her book.


She just recognized what was there.

1. Ignorance: This is nothing more than the lack of knowledge and can be cured with education on whatever subject.

2. Stupidity: Sorry, this is an incurable disease. This disease is spreading quite rapidly. The stupid abhor knowledge. The underlying message in most of their arguments is "don't confuse the issue with facts".


----------



## lancestar2

Deebo said:


> no more discussions, from Deebo, becouse honestly, Deebo is tired of trying to "justify" my GOD to someone, who makes fun, replies omg, and then says he "just wants someone to show him Jesus".
> I aint perfect, I have punched many a deserving asshole in the face, and I am man enough to accept any consequences from doing so.
> Lance, for me to try to explain my GOD to you would be like you trying to "make me homosexual". Just aint gonna happen, and we both have a headache.
> So, along the lines of free speech, and trying to be civilized. Goodby, and goodluck. I hope you find who/what your looking for.


no need to justify your god to me I guess.. I would settle with why you and or others view acting like jesus does cowardly and being a P**** by today's standards. Maybe you could explain your views on that unless you would agree that NOT hitting people would be better... Like you said your man enough to accept any consequences but then I would ask you...

If I may...

Would god have any consequences in your opinion if you had behaved "cowardly" by not hitting somebody in a situation explained in that video of the girl throwing the drink and walking away and NOT showing any signs of aggression beyond the tossing of the drink? I think maybe were about to agree on something


----------



## lancestar2

Denton said:


> Oh, poor victim, you are. Poor, poor victim. As usual. Stir up crap and become the victim when it is realized you are holding the paddle.
> 
> Knowledge has been shared with you. You don't want it. You are not here for that. You are here to warp, twist and derail any conversation that has anything to do with Christianity. That is to say, you are an habitual troll.
> 
> By the way; are you saying you didn't make it to the ninth grade? You say I am more educated than you. I don't know that I am, but I know I have not displayed any language skill learned after the ninth grade.


REALLY! now I'm playing the victim? First I'm the smart know it all and I act so condescending, now I'm the victim pretender... jesus christ! learn to be a little less rude to others! You never hear me complain about you being here Denton I welcome you with open arms and will even say have a great day! I think I am pretty nice I share my ideas and I look for the opinion and feed back from others... don't expect me to blindly follow you in your religion because I don't agree with it! I simply am looking to understand YOUR opinions and ideas! If you don't know what you belive in yourself then perhaps that YOUR problem and your not the type of person to be explaining your viewpoint... I enjoy hearing others viewpoints who are comfortable in there beliefs to share... I hope work on your "playing nice with other skills" Please and Thank you!


----------



## inceptor

lancestar2 said:


> no need to justify your god to me I guess..


 :lol:



lancestar2 said:


> I would settle with why you and or others view acting like jesus does cowardly and being a P**** by today's standards. Maybe you could explain your views on that unless you would agree that NOT hitting people would be better... Like you said your man enough to accept any consequences but then I would ask you...
> 
> If I may...
> 
> Would god have any consequences in your opinion if you had behaved "cowardly" by not hitting somebody in a situation explained in that video of the girl throwing the drink and walking away and NOT showing any signs of aggression beyond the tossing of the drink? I think maybe were about to agree on something











Is it working?????????


----------



## inceptor

Oh, and btw, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob needs no justification.


----------



## MrsInor

Once again -

your - possessive
you're - contraction as in - 

oh forget it. 

You're as grammatically challenged as your pet rock.


----------



## ApexPredator

LOL it took me a long time to find god I rejected him at first for the same reasons your saying here that its illogical. Tell me this though how does logic explain the creation of the universe it doesn't and cant unless logic can now prove that you can create something from nothing. At least religion has an explanation now who is illogical.


----------



## lancestar2

ApexPredator said:


> LOL it took me a long time to find god I rejected him at first for the same reasons your saying here that its illogical. Tell me this though how does logic explain the creation of the universe it doesn't and cant unless logic can now prove that you can create something from nothing. At least religion has an explanation now who is illogical.


hmm... well this is starting to get into personal beliefs but I will answer... 

The big bang theory is a theory that there was a single dense object that existed (that object can be explained as God) that object exploded and expanded and created everything (God created everything in the universe) From which planets formed and cells formed and divided (We were created by God in him Image) Logic can back many of this information up as we can observe the universe is expanding and moving apart in a way that suggests a explosion. Also evolution can be documented in the random mutation of animals and even humans. The survival of the fittest usually helps this out. Meaning that animals that have deformities that work in there favor usually thrive the ones that don't die and there genes don't get passed on. Many of these deformities are very minor but the concept is pretty basic. The guy who has the body who runs the fastest out runs the slow guy and doesn't get eaten by the tigers. There by he lives to pass his genes on. I sure we could debate and argue that issue for days hopfully not lol..

But in regards to the question Religion can be used to explain how the world was created in a general description, science can be much more accurate in there description however some things have yet to still be answered. For example where did that object come from that created the big bang? Science does not know, but if we look to religion for a general description again well... our answer is it always existed outside of time...

There is great wisdom in religion, and there is much value in science and they go hand in hand not against one another! My opinion is that the flaw of religion is focusing way to much attention on god being a intelligent being. Even look at our history of how people used to think the sun was a god (an intelligent being capable of independent thought, desire, and will) Years later we now know that idea is very likely to be false. Though the sun provides us with heat, life, and warmpth, we can't expect it to behave in a way to help us (meaning answer our prayers) Same thing with the Christianity God. Being that God does not show signs of independent thought, desire, or will it is my opinion that there is not enough proof to prove that god exist nor that there is any likelihood of him existing.

I will admit it is rather puzzling how Religion knows these concepts thousands of years ago, but again that can simply also be explained. Many times it was explained that visions were had from "beings that descended from the heavens" Now if aliens existed and intervened in our history they would have came from the sky and descended from ships with wings (angles) haha... Considering god used to be so much more involved in our history than he is now (burning bush, giving commandments to Moses, Flooding the world and building an Ark, and many other stories of God being very active and talkative) it suggests that God's behavior has changed why if God truly existed outside of time it would seem unrealistic that he would have been so involved in over 2,000 years when according to the bible the earth is only some 5,000 years old?

Again who knows what happened to create our universe it's still mostly only a theory and still unexplained. However a god that you can not see demands to be worshiped and loved in your life but if you don't he will punish you for eternity. hmm... I see that as more of a means to control the population out of a threat and fear. The government also seems to do that too lol...

I just think it's OK to be comfortable in believing in what you THINK is right, to accept the fact that somethings you simply don't know nor will you be punished for not knowing...


----------



## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> REALLY! now I'm playing the victim? First I'm the smart know it all and I act so condescending, now I'm the victim pretender... jesus christ! learn to be a little less rude to others! You never hear me complain about you being here Denton I welcome you with open arms and will even say have a great day! I think I am pretty nice I share my ideas and I look for the opinion and feed back from others... don't expect me to blindly follow you in your religion because I don't agree with it! I simply am looking to understand YOUR opinions and ideas! If you don't know what you belive in yourself then perhaps that YOUR problem and your not the type of person to be explaining your viewpoint... I enjoy hearing others viewpoints who are comfortable in there beliefs to share... I hope work on your "playing nice with other skills" Please and Thank you!


You are nothing more than a trolling liar. You know you and I have already been down this road.
You are not looking for my opinions or ideas. You are doing nothing but playing your anti-Christian game, so do not pretend as if I am new to the board.
Do not use my Savior's name in vain; the same Savior who died for _your_ sins, too. You are not offending me, you are insulting your only hope.

Don't play the victim, again. Poor, you; you wish everyone well as you stir crap as a troll and derail discussions if and when they have anything to do with Christianity. Smile as you do it all you want. Don't expect me to pretend to be as ignorant as you want me to be.

I don't expect you to blindly follow what I believe, but that isn't the point. You aren't blind. You understand it, and you hate it. You do not want to turn from your vile desires, your sins and your shortcomings. You want to embrace them. You want to attack Christianity because it means you are not OK, you are a sinner, and you have to turn away from all that garbage and embrace a Savior.

I play nice. What you want me to do is not call a spade a spade. Just as with the rest of your warped interpretations of words, I do not agree nor will I abide.


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## Inor

Forget about the debate about whether God is an intelligent being or not. Most of us can easily answer that on our own. The more pressing question right now is whether Lance is an intelligent being or not... Draw your own conclusions.


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## Lucky Jim

SPOILER ALERT!*******

In 'Gravity', poor Sandy Bullock is floating in space after the Shuttle is shot out from under her..









And wonders how the hell she's gonna get back to Earth..









..happy ending! she gets back and starts the atheist filmgoers rocking and rolling by thanking God..

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Denton

Inor said:


> Forget about the debate about whether God is an intelligent being or not. Most of us can easily answer that on our own. The more pressing question right now is whether Lance is an intelligent being or not... Draw your own conclusions.


You know what raises my blood pressure? It isn't his level of intelligence, but where he thinks ours is. He believes we aren't smart enough to recognize his pattern.
Then again, maybe he is trolling so many boards for Christian posts that he gets them confused. Either way, he should know we know. I know you know he knows we know, don't you think?


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## lancestar2

Denton said:


> ... You do not want to turn from your vile desires, your sins and your shortcomings. You want to embrace them. You want to attack Christianity because it means you are not OK, you are a sinner, and you have to turn away from all that garbage and embrace a Savior...


I could make the SAME argument about people's opinion about violence being acceptable to god when Jesus lived a non-violent lifestyle and his same lifestyle is now considered "cowardly" and being a "p****" The don't want to turn from there vile desires, sin, or there shortcomings but they choose to embrace them AND label anyone who choices a non-violent lifestyle like jesus did insulting names!

Why you deem THAT acceptable but only "call a spade a spade" against me only further proves my point of using religion beliefs to shape your own subjective beliefs. That's putting it nicely because defying god by justifying a violent lifestyle seem much more insulting when you also discourage instead of encourage such behavior.



Denton said:


> You know what raises my blood pressure? It isn't his level of intelligence, but where he thinks ours is. He believes we aren't smart enough to recognize his pattern.
> Then again, maybe he is trolling so many boards for Christian posts that he gets them confused. Either way, he should know we know. I know you know he knows we know, don't you think?


...I think your boarding on playing the victim card here but I will cave in and let you do so...

No I don't think low of your intelligence level, this is nothing but a basic ...well maybe a bit more than basic level of exchange of ideas and opinions. I just want to gain insight on others opinions and why they believe in what they do and if they have any opinion on the questions I ask them and what they think about my opinions. An exchange of ideas, I don't mean to be attackful but in general I learned from experience those that discourage the exchange of ideas and opinions (or a debate as you might want to call it) tend to perfer to avoid question there beliefs.

If that is the case I apoligize to you for suggesting you question your belief. For some people stepping back and questioning there belief structure may be offensive and they may not want to even discuss the topic of religion in that manner. But as I have said and showed through my words I am not here to convert and the point I have been stuck on is trying to get an answer as to why anyone behavior like Jesus by living a non-violent lifestyle today would be mocked! Why is that? Is that what religion would call the evil creeping into the religion and distorting it? Is there knowledge in the bible on some page I have yet to discover where it is interpreted to mean the changing of this rule? Surly there must be SOME reasoning as to why this is so...

Also Denton I can see your getting a bit upset so I will also apoligize if anything I say make you feel annoyed, upset, or any other negative feeling. I am not trying to "press your buttons" I am simply trying to understand more about the opinions of yourself and others so I can better understand. This works on the reverse as well, this is an opportunity to ask me any question to gain from my understanding as well. True I may not answer them right away and I might miss them in paragraphs of text (bolding them would help me remember to answer them) As well as I doubt you would see the value in asking me anything lol... Sadly, I only feel you are going to insult me and say my opinion does not matter to you, but perhaps I place to much value on others opinions than I should. I don't want to label people as stupid just because I don't understand there way of thinking I think that is an offensive and rude thing to do. I want to gain by learning why they belive what they do and perhaps in that experience I can gain and improve my own way of thinking and live a live an even better lifestyle.

Perhaps my non-violent lifestyle is to cowardly? Perhaps I need to edit my own behavior to improve my lifestyle choices? No I am not about to change everything simply by one person who says something random. I need to fully understand the concept and that is my purpose. I would perfer people refrain from insulting me page after page but I feel a violent reaction on my part would only resulting in arguing becoming out of control... is that why people continue to post meansprited things about me because they deem me a coward? Should I be more argumentative on the personal insults and defending of my honor? Or does that only apply to the real world and not the online world (referring to the violent/non-violent lifestyle behaviors)


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## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> I could make the SAME argument about people's opinion about violence being acceptable to god when Jesus lived a non-violent lifestyle and his same lifestyle is now considered "cowardly" and being a "p****" The don't want to turn from there vile desires, sin, or there shortcomings but they choose to embrace them AND label anyone who choices a non-violent lifestyle like jesus did insulting names!
> 
> Why you deem THAT acceptable but only "call a spade a spade" against me only further proves my point of using religion beliefs to shape your own subjective beliefs. That's putting it nicely because defying god by justifying a violent lifestyle seem much more insulting when you also discourage instead of encourage such behavior.
> 
> ...I think your boarding on playing the victim card here but I will cave in and let you do so...
> 
> No I don't think low of your intelligence level, this is nothing but a basic ...well maybe a bit more than basic level of exchange of ideas and opinions. I just want to gain insight on others opinions and why they believe in what they do and if they have any opinion on the questions I ask them and what they think about my opinions. An exchange of ideas, I don't mean to be attackful but in general I learned from experience those that discourage the exchange of ideas and opinions (or a debate as you might want to call it) tend to perfer to avoid question there beliefs.
> 
> If that is the case I apoligize to you for suggesting you question your belief. For some people stepping back and questioning there belief structure may be offensive and they may not want to even discuss the topic of religion in that manner. But as I have said and showed through my words I am not here to convert and the point I have been stuck on is trying to get an answer as to why anyone behavior like Jesus by living a non-violent lifestyle today would be mocked! Why is that? Is that what religion would call the evil creeping into the religion and distorting it? Is there knowledge in the bible on some page I have yet to discover where it is interpreted to mean the changing of this rule? Surly there must be SOME reasoning as to why this is so...
> 
> Also Denton I can see your getting a bit upset so I will also apoligize if anything I say make you feel annoyed, upset, or any other negative feeling. I am not trying to "press your buttons" I am simply trying to understand more about the opinions of yourself and others so I can better understand. This works on the reverse as well, this is an opportunity to ask me any question to gain from my understanding as well. True I may not answer them right away and I might miss them in paragraphs of text (bolding them would help me remember to answer them) As well as I doubt you would see the value in asking me anything lol... Sadly, I only feel you are going to insult me and say my opinion does not matter to you, but perhaps I place to much value on others opinions than I should. I don't want to label people as stupid just because I don't understand there way of thinking I think that is an offensive and rude thing to do. I want to gain by learning why they belive what they do and perhaps in that experience I can gain and improve my own way of thinking and live a live an even better lifestyle.
> 
> Perhaps my non-violent lifestyle is to cowardly? Perhaps I need to edit my own behavior to improve my lifestyle choices? No I am not about to change everything simply by one person who says something random. I need to fully understand the concept and that is my purpose. I would perfer people refrain from insulting me page after page but I feel a violent reaction on my part would only resulting in arguing becoming out of control... is that why people continue to post meansprited things about me because they deem me a coward? Should I be more argumentative on the personal insults and defending of my honor? Or does that only apply to the real world and not the online world (referring to the violent/non-violent lifestyle behaviors)


And yet when I asked you questions about the increased diagnosis of depression and I will now add suicide among the homosexual community you did not answer my questions. So what is it Lance? just a one way street where you seek something to fill the void in your soul, yet refuse to answer questions others have on other subjects?


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## lancestar2

jimb1972 said:


> And yet when I asked you questions about the increased diagnosis of depression and I will now add suicide among the homosexual community you did not answer my questions. So what is it Lance? just a one way street where you seek something to fill the void in your soul, yet refuse to answer questions others have on other subjects?


Were you serious? My apologizes. Much of the higher rate of depression and suicide among the homosexual community has been a result of not feeling tolerated or accepted by there family and friends because of there sexuality has been deemed offensive in the history. I think we will be seeing decreased rates of younger people due to the fact more and more people are being accepted as who they are instead of judged for it. I myself strugged with depression and had thoughts of suicide as a child because I also grew up in a non-accepting family. Later in life they have started to come around and they still don't completely agree with my opinions on the subject but I have made my peace with them and they still love and care enough about me that I am at peace with them and that truly is fantastic! If you really would like to go more in depth on this topic you can always PM me as well I always prefer a open format to allow anyone to view the topic and give there opinions.

I do think there are some very sad stories out there, I once met an older gay man who parents tossed him out like garbage upon finding out his sexuality. Of course that an older friend of mine so in a modern day it odds of that is far less. Also I would contribute the higher rate of depression with the lifestyle of people feeling the need to hide there sexuality and not being comfortable with themselves. Coming out can be a very positive experience and uplifting as you finally admit to yourself and the world of who and what you are. Hiding anything about yourself tends to have an effect on one's happiness and state of being. I see it much more so with the future generation where they can be so open to there friends at a much earlier age such as middle school and even elementary school. My opinion on that is because this new generation won't have to worry about the pain and suffering of being who they are they won't (in general) have to go through the extra hardship which no doubt increases the likelihood of depression. Keep in mind the process of declassifying homosexuality as a mental disorder and today where full equality exists in over half the states with marriage equality has only been about 70 years. A very quick change for society and I would assume there will still be pockets of resistance to change for many years to come.


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## PaulS

inceptor said:


> She just recognized what was there.
> 
> 1. Ignorance: This is nothing more than the lack of knowledge and can be cured with education on whatever subject.
> 
> 2. Stupidity: Sorry, this is an incurable disease. This disease is spreading quite rapidly. The stupid abhor knowledge. The underlying message in most of their arguments is "don't confuse the issue with facts".


There is one cure for stupid but it must be administered by nature as it is illegal for another person to kill them.


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## Lucky Jim

The gays in Sodom/Gomorrah were the nasty type of loud militant gays who nobody likes, they used to go round knocking peoples doors demanding the men come out and be shafted, so no wonder God went ballistic and zapped them bigtime! (Genesis 19:4)
Nobody's got no real beef with the nice type of gays, heck some ex-gays were even welcomed into the early Christian churches.(1 Cor 6:9-11)..


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## jimb1972

lancestar2 said:


> Were you serious? My apologizes. Much of the higher rate of depression and suicide among the homosexual community has been a result of not feeling tolerated or accepted by there family and friends because of there sexuality has been deemed offensive in the history. I think we will be seeing decreased rates of younger people due to the fact more and more people are being accepted as who they are instead of judged for it. I myself strugged with depression and had thoughts of suicide as a child because I also grew up in a non-accepting family. Later in life they have started to come around and they still don't completely agree with my opinions on the subject but I have made my peace with them and they still love and care enough about me that I am at peace with them and that truly is fantastic! If you really would like to go more in depth on this topic you can always PM me as well I always prefer a open format to allow anyone to view the topic and give there opinions.
> 
> I do think there are some very sad stories out there, I once met an older gay man who parents tossed him out like garbage upon finding out his sexuality. Of course that an older friend of mine so in a modern day it odds of that is far less. Also I would contribute the higher rate of depression with the lifestyle of people feeling the need to hide there sexuality and not being comfortable with themselves. Coming out can be a very positive experience and uplifting as you finally admit to yourself and the world of who and what you are. Hiding anything about yourself tends to have an effect on one's happiness and state of being. I see it much more so with the future generation where they can be so open to there friends at a much earlier age such as middle school and even elementary school. My opinion on that is because this new generation won't have to worry about the pain and suffering of being who they are they won't (in general) have to go through the extra hardship which no doubt increases the likelihood of depression. Keep in mind the process of declassifying homosexuality as a mental disorder and today where full equality exists in over half the states with marriage equality has only been about 70 years. A very quick change for society and I would assume there will still be pockets of resistance to change for many years to come.


You will have as much luck arguing religion with a believer as a heterosexual will have trying to explain that homosexuality is not an inborn trait to a homosexual.


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## ApexPredator

Evolution random mutation doesn't explain complex evolution it is not possible to jump the gap from simple mutation to complex organ via random event your argument even supports this, an animal that developed a mutation that was not immediately of benefit would suffer from reduced survival ability and quickly die off allowing no chance for further development when someone explains the gap between plant and animal life via evolution ill take that argument seriously however an eyeball is much to complicated for such a random occurrence explanation.
As far as the activity of god is concerned me personally I believe in sovereign grace so god is active in every thought every feeling every emotion for me. However though god seems to be active enough he converted me and thousands of his believers work in his name where does that inspiration come from. There is no reason to believe he is more or less active than he has ever been.
I subscribe to the galactic clutter theory on aliens basically if they existed where is the the electronic trash they would throw off like earth which has been broadcasting signals at the speed of light for decades like a beacon in the night. If we are somewhat a fringe world than worlds closer to the center would have developed life much earlier and been broadcasting much longer and more powerfully hence no clutter no aliens.
For the control issue I say read the Duey Rheims bible God never said life was fair and he never claimed to be either he gave you a path to heaven all others are damned the hippy version of God is a fantasy hes destroyed cities and wiped the earth clean and given people a strict path to walk if you chose to deviate its at your own peril and you forsake him not the other way round its.


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## lancestar2

ApexPredator said:


> Evolution random mutation doesn't explain complex evolution it is not possible to jump the gap from simple mutation to complex organ via random event your argument even supports this, an animal that developed a mutation that was not immediately of benefit would suffer from reduced survival ability and quickly die off allowing no chance for further development *when someone explains the gap between plant and animal life via evolution ill take that argument seriously* however an eyeball is much to complicated for such a random occurrence explanation.
> As far as the activity of god is concerned me personally I believe in sovereign grace so *god is active in every thought every feeling every emotion for me.* However though god seems to be active enough he converted me and thousands of his believers work in his name where does that inspiration come from. There is no reason to believe he is more or less active than he has ever been.
> I subscribe to the galactic clutter theory on aliens basically if they existed where is the the electronic trash they would throw off like earth which has been broadcasting signals at the speed of light for decades like a beacon in the night. If we are somewhat a fringe world than worlds closer to the center would have developed life much earlier and been broadcasting much longer and more powerfully hence no clutter no aliens.
> For the control issue I say read the Duey Rheims bible God never said life was fair and he never claimed to be either he gave you a path to heaven all others are damned the hippy version of God is a fantasy *hes destroyed cities and wiped the earth clean and given people a strict path to walk* if you chose to deviate its at your own peril and you forsake him not the other way round its.


First of all thank you for your comments and your viewpoint. I would also point out that plants also can have a competitive nature. So often when you plant your own garden weeds will sprout and cover other plants to prevent them from getting sunlight and growing. The process of mutation of plants I'm not to sure behind the science of plants but I always knew a little bit about it.

I used to accept the argument when people say "wow such a beautiful landscape only god could have created such wonderful site." Well I usually will go into detail about how our solar system was formed from a clump of gas then it deveoloped in to carbon and astroids hit it with ice and over million of years it melted and pooled water in which bacterial formed evolved into plant and animal life and through erosion rivers were formed, through plate tectonics the mountains were formed blah blah blah...

Of course there is proof that god is the one who uses these rules of the universe to perform his landscapes but does that mean he is still all powerful? Always debatable until prove beyond a doubt. Also you say that god destroys cities and wiped the earth clean and given people a strict path to walk... Now let's see who wiped the cities in Japan away into the ocean? In your opinion was it god? If it was god why does he abid by the rules of the universe? Meaning we were able to detect an earthquake which is two plates shifting against each other and because of such quick snaping movement much water was displaced and that cause the huge waves and surplus of water to come ashore. Does that mean that god all powerful?

No, even if you believe god was behind the act it does not show any divine intervention. Most importantly that does NOT prove that god is not all powerful or that he does exist... All it means is that one event wiped out several large cities and towns along the coast of japan and there was no signs of divine intervention. I can't disprove you theory that god can wipe cities off the face of the earth because that is his will.. however perhaps it was premeditated, but facts suggest it was a random occurrence.

Would you agree or disagree? Do you think god created the title waves that destroyed so much in Japan? Also was it divine intervention that he caused the acts? Also I do you like when you said that god is in everything every though every feeling and every emotion because that also relates to my theory that god exists everywhere as objects created from the big band and god is an energy much like the sun it brings us warmth and provides us with life. Yet we no longer worship the sun because we know it does not have intelligence but yet it is STILL of something to be thankful for and to love and respect because without it we would die... which sounds oddly familiar don't it?


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## ApexPredator

So it seems that you accept that god exists or not I cant tell.
Yes according to the tenants of Divine Grace, God is the source of everything Lucifer floods tidal waves Romans etc yes even the crucifixion was planned so is God working within the constraints of the universe or does the universe work in accordance with his will you can look at this from both points of view so its hardly worth debating. What facts would support it being a random occurrence surly your not suggesting science happens randomly no there is an explanation of tectonic movements but the question is where did the rock originally come from it couldn't have come from nothing so something must have created it but what could that be science doesn't have an answer. 

So you like facts it seems like, do you happen to know the most historically accurate documents that humanity posses. Yep given the context you guessed it the BIBLE is the most historically accurate documents we have, no other documents matching as many criteria for historical accuracy as the bible not by a long shot literally everything is verifiable by verifiable sources and after 2000 years no less hell I cant keep tax records for 5 years straight.

Weve skipped the counter to intelligent design the sun while it gives us life because without its energy we would all die, it cannot explain the gap between a random mutation and an eyeball or the organs you have for hearing or balance while I might accept that plant life could accidentally happen leafs do not become eyeballs roots do not become bones. If you accept that cells are the smallest life form how do you explain a cell whose whole purpose is to survive and adapt adapting in such a way that it sacrifices itself for the well being of other cells, yet this is true of dozens of specialized cells in our body evolution would prevent such a thing from occurring naturally.

You make the argument that I need to prove God exists however by very definition it is impossible to prove God exists or doesn't exists that would negate the need for faith. However being a logical being I chose the most logical answer God exists until something can either explain the gaps left in his absence or all the gaps in science. We know that something can not come from nothing so therefore something must have come before nothing only God is explainable science cannot help but contradict itself here, until such a time as science makes more sense than God the burden of proof is on the nonbeliever. Whats that Sherlock Holmes saying once you remove the impossible (science because it says so itself) whatever remains however improbable must be the truth.

Try reading a Duey Rhiems english standerd version bible it could be very enlightening for you it does away with most of the hippy beliefs and interpretations.


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## Lucky Jim

ApexPredator said:


> Evolution random mutation doesn't explain complex evolution..


Yeah, evolutionary science can only scratch the surface and do guesses and hunches, that's why it's only called the THEORY of Evolution and not the FACT of Evolution..

For example although this is a dead ringer for a modern printed circuit board, it's really the retina of the eye.
Evolutionists say it wired itself up without any help..


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## PaulS

The fact is that the eye is present in plants. No they can't "see" like we can but their flowers and leaves sense the light and even follow it.

The first animals to have eyes still exist and the benefit of being able to sense light gave them an advantage because they would move away from the light which contained UV rays that killed organisms that stayed in the light too long. The flat-worms and jellyfish still have this rudimentary organ and will continue to move away from light. It then evolved into several different versions, multiple irises, vertical irises, and the round contracting irises. The back of the eye determines what we see. In some animals it contained elements that only distinguish between light and dark, in some animals it centered on certain colors like green and red or green and blue and most insects concentrate on the UV spectrum. Each of these "mutations" gave the individuals an advantage over what was available before. They fed better, escaped from predators better or could see better in the dark. They lived longer and bred more so those without the mutation died out and the ones with the mutation lived and populated.

The most evolved eyes are found in Squid and birds. Squids can see in places that would be too dark for a dog (the mammal with the best mammalian low light vision) to see anything. Some birds have a "double lens" in their eye so that they can see a wide field in real time and still "zoom" in on a targeted prey. Their zoom allows them to target a prey animal miles away while they soar at great heights. The advantage is obvious - they can find food better than they could without it.

Evolution is a theory because although it has satisfied a great many tests and seen in actual operation the triggers for it have not yet been completely satisfied. In other words ; evolution is a fact but the mechanisms and incidences for when and why it occurs is not yet completely understood. In the scientific world a theory has to have supporting evidence - a lot of it - in order to exist. It is more than an educated guess or even a postulation or concept. The theory of Evolution, like the theory of Relativity, has been proven to fit the results of every test conducted. People fight it because they believe it contradicts the Bible. It does not! The Bible says that God created life but it does not tell us how. Evolution is the tool that God used and continues to use to create life.


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## Lucky Jim

lancestar2 said:


> ..I would still argue the point of life is to pass the test and become in gods good graces is it not?..


You got it mate..

The only success that matters is getting through the Life Assault Course:-
_"All creation groans in pain from the beginning til now" (Rom 8:22)_

And it sorts the men from the boys:-
_"We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22)_

Jesus welcomes anybody into his squad:-
_"Whoever comes to me I'll never turn away" (John 6:37)_

And he'll lead by example:-
_"To follow me you must carry your own cross daily" (Luke 9:23)_

The C.O. shows no favouritism:-
_"God didn't spare his own son" (Rom 8:32)_

So if he can hack it so can we:-
"We share in Jesus's sufferings in order to share in his glory" (Rom 8:17)

And others have stayed the course too:-
_"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" (2 Tim 4:7) _

Then if we qualify we win the 'Gold Beret':-
_"Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life.." (James 1:12)_

But for those who want a soft, easy religion, Christianity's not for them - 
_"They prefer teachers who only tell them what they want to hear" (2 Tim 4:3)_

Waddya say Bob?

*"Take the pain! TAKE THE PAIN!"*


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## Lucky Jim

lancestar2 said:


> ..if aliens existed and intervened in our history they would have came from the sky and descended from ships with wings (angles) haha...


Or Stargated here..
Jesus said- _"I know where I came from and where I am going, but you have no idea where I come from or where I am going....you are of this world, *I am not of this world*" (John 8:14/ 8:23, Matt 13:35)_

We don't know exactly where Jesus is now..









But if we mindmeld with him, he said-
_"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)_









Then when our body dies, our locked-on souls automatically fly to him through the 'Jesus Stargate' like he said..
_ "Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it, 
but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, *and only a few find it*."(Matt 7:13)_










So if people haven't locked onto Jesus before they die, maybe they'll be in a world o' hurt..
_"Ungodly men,wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness is reserved forever" (Jude 1:4-19) _


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## PaulS

Wow! I don't think I have ever seen it put in more modern terms - nice job!

I would remind you of John 14:12

Jesus told them to do as He had done and do greater things than even He had done ...


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## Maine-Marine

in the 60's when the chinese started to get rid of Christians and Christian Churches....there were about 6,000,000 Christians in China... Today after many years of putting pastors in prison and breaking up churches..there are between 60,000,000 and 70,000,000 Christians...

America needs a little Christian persecution...


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## inceptor

Maine-Marine said:


> America needs a little Christian persecution...


Yeah, I would probably shoot back. But hey, that's just my ******* asshole side showing.


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## Lucky Jim

Maine-Marine said:


> in the 60's when the chinese started to get rid of Christians and Christian Churches....there were about 6,000,000 Christians in China... Today after many years of putting pastors in prison and breaking up churches..there are between 60,000,000 and 70,000,000 Christians...
> America needs a little Christian persecution...





inceptor said:


> Yeah, I would probably shoot back. But hey, that's just my ******* asshole side showing.


When they came to arrest Jesus, his right-hand man Peter drew his sword and whacked the high priest's flunkey across the head with it, slicing off his ear.(John 18:10)
Surprisingly Jesus let him carry the weapon in the first place, probably as a deterrent to muggers on their travels, therefore sending out the clear message that weapons in themselves are not "unholy" or "evil"..

Two medieval artworks showing Peter in action-


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## inceptor

If you pay attention in the New Testament, you will realize that everyday Jesus woke up and wondered what can I do to piss off the Pharisee's. Scripture had to be fulfilled. And it was. 

When Peter cut off the ear of the temple guard, Jesus stepped in. He didn't step in because he was a pacifist, he stepped in to keep Peter from being killed. Stop and think about it. The temple guard were trained warriors, the Apostles were not. If an armed squad is attacked, wouldn't they fight back? Of course they would. That's why Jesus put a stop to it.


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## ApexPredator

Man ive only just started learning the bible all over again but at least now I wont feel bad taking my gun to church.


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## Denton

PaulS said:


> The fact is that the eye is present in plants. No they can't "see" like we can but their flowers and leaves sense the light and even follow it.
> 
> The first animals to have eyes still exist and the benefit of being able to sense light gave them an advantage because they would move away from the light which contained UV rays that killed organisms that stayed in the light too long. The flat-worms and jellyfish still have this rudimentary organ and will continue to move away from light. It then evolved into several different versions, multiple irises, vertical irises, and the round contracting irises. The back of the eye determines what we see. In some animals it contained elements that only distinguish between light and dark, in some animals it centered on certain colors like green and red or green and blue and most insects concentrate on the UV spectrum. Each of these "mutations" gave the individuals an advantage over what was available before. They fed better, escaped from predators better or could see better in the dark. They lived longer and bred more so those without the mutation died out and the ones with the mutation lived and populated.
> 
> The most evolved eyes are found in Squid and birds. Squids can see in places that would be too dark for a dog (the mammal with the best mammalian low light vision) to see anything. Some birds have a "double lens" in their eye so that they can see a wide field in real time and still "zoom" in on a targeted prey. Their zoom allows them to target a prey animal miles away while they soar at great heights. The advantage is obvious - they can find food better than they could without it.
> 
> Evolution is a theory because although it has satisfied a great many tests and seen in actual operation the triggers for it have not yet been completely satisfied. In other words ; evolution is a fact but the mechanisms and incidences for when and why it occurs is not yet completely understood. In the scientific world a theory has to have supporting evidence - a lot of it - in order to exist. It is more than an educated guess or even a postulation or concept. The theory of Evolution, like the theory of Relativity, has been proven to fit the results of every test conducted. People fight it because they believe it contradicts the Bible. It does not! The Bible says that God created life but it does not tell us how. Evolution is the tool that God used and continues to use to create life.


I have to disagree, both that evolution even rises beyond the level of hypothesis, or that evolution could be God's way of creating. Take note in Genesis that "time" was one of the first things created. Then, take note that the following creations were created on specified days. There is no way to make that compromise, nor is there a good reason to do so.



> " 'Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever. In explaining evolution we do not have one iota of fact.' [Tahmisian called it] a tangled mishmash of guessing games and figure juggling."-*Fresno Bee, August 20, 1959, p. 1-B [quoting *T.N. Tahmisian, physiologist for the Atomic Energy Commission].


Evolution Handbook 3


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## PaulS

You can't become a nurse without witnessing evolution first hand. It happens every day.

You are free to believe as you wish but to use your belief to ignore facts is worse than ignorant. Belief in matters of faith is a true gift. Keeping that faith while recognizing the facts that surround you is choice.


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## machinejjh

My only question concerning evolution... where are all the half-ape half-human species? If one assumes one species can evolve into another, why would that species not continue to evolve? If it stands to reason ape became human, then why are there still apes?


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## MrsInor

Segregated gene pools.


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## PaulS

Modern apes and man are thought to have had a common ancestor (long extinct). It is a fact that not only did ****-sapiens and neanderthals live at the same time but that they also had a common ancestor. The fact that they have found the remains of interbred human/neanderthal remains shows that they interbred and that they lived into adult hood - long enough to breed...


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## machinejjh

While that may play a factor in adaption, mutation would require a pretty specific set of circumstances~ which I find hard to believe. It's okay if people want to believe in either science or religion. I personally think it can be both. I read a great book on time and space and the relation of six days of creation to the earth being millions of years old. I just glossed over the quantum mathematics involved in the theory. If I find the title, I'll pass it on. Was a good read.


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## PaulS

The Earth is approximately 4.54 billion years old. The Sun is 4.57 billion years old and should live for another 7 billion or so years although in the later part of that time it will be transforming to a red giant and kill off any life on earth if not vaporizing it completely. The universe is at least 13 billion years old and our solar system is a 2nd or 3rd generation system. We know that because of the elements found in our system. The stuff had to have come from a supernova of a first or second generation massive star.


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## Lucky Jim

I like Senator John McCains view:-
_"I believe in evolution, but when I hike the Grand Canyon at sunset, I see the hand of God there also"_

In other words, evolution had to be tweaked and helped along a little bit..

*"Sorry kiddo, you're on the way out"*


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## inceptor

Denton said:


> I have to disagree, both that evolution even rises beyond the level of hypothesis, or that evolution could be God's way of creating. Take note in Genesis that "time" was one of the first things created. Then, take note that the following creations were created on specified days. There is no way to make that compromise, nor is there a good reason to do so.


I look at it this way. Evolution is God's way of helping us adapt to an ever changing world.

Morons can say what they want but I see the hand of God in everything. This world is too precise to be a random event.


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## Denton

PaulS said:


> You can't become a nurse without witnessing evolution first hand. It happens every day.
> 
> You are free to believe as you wish but to use your belief to ignore facts is worse than ignorant. Belief in matters of faith is a true gift. Keeping that faith while recognizing the facts that surround you is choice.


Being a nurse does not give you a front row seat to the religion of Evolution. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I have ever heard a nurse say such a thing. As a matter of fact, the contrary is the case.

Here, another quote from someone who might have even a better understanding than a nurse:



> "I feel that the effect of the hypotheses of common ancestry in systematics has not been merely boring, not just a lack of knowledge; I think it has been positively anti-knowledge . . Well, what about evolution? It certainly has the function of knowledge but does it convey any? Well, we are back to the question I have been putting to people, 'Is there one thing you can tell me about evolution?' The absence of answers seems to suggest that it is true, evolution does not convey any knowledge."-*Colin Patterson, Address at the American Museum of Natural History (November 5, 1981).


Your lack of faith makes you ready to compromise, and that is a shame, Paul. I am not the one who is ignoring facts, while calling God a liar. If you prefer to believe a shaky hypothesis over what God claimed He did, you are exercising your free will. Understand, however, that there is more science to back God's claim of creating life in a day than there is to suggest that nothing bumped into nothing, exploded, and a Harley Davidson resulted, much less the complexities of the diverse wildlife.

*"Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only other alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable." *Sir Arthur Keith, deceased priest of the religion of Evolution, explaining why evolution is forced down our throats and taught to our children.


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## Denton

PaulS said:


> The Earth is approximately 4.54 billion years old. The Sun is 4.57 billion years old and should live for another 7 billion or so years although in the later part of that time it will be transforming to a red giant and kill off any life on earth if not vaporizing it completely. The universe is at least 13 billion years old and our solar system is a 2nd or 3rd generation system. We know that because of the elements found in our system. The stuff had to have come from a supernova of a first or second generation massive star.


Another assumption. On the other hand, there is evidence of a young earth, as well as a young universe.
http://evolutionfacts.com/Evolution-handbook/E-H-4a.htm

This is fascinating reading, if one doesn't mind one's religion being called into question. After all, "Belief in matters of faith is a true gift. Keeping that faith while recognizing the facts that surround you is choice."

I have to wonder how many people are even aware of the fact that there are so many scientific arguments against the religion of Evolution. Where would they get that information or wonder about such things? As we all know, the myth is taught exclusively in the government education systems across the country. Seems one would have to have the curiosity sparked before one would even hit the internet to search.

This is an interesting discussion, Paul. Thank you for indulging me. Who knows how much longer such conversations will be allowed.


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## inceptor

I guess it's all in the interpretation. I tend to think of evolution as adaptation, not creation.


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## PaulS

Denton,

I don't see evolution as a "religion" but as science. My religious beliefs and my personal spirituality can believe that God is bigger and more powerful than a narrow-minded person can qualify. (I am not calling you narrow minded - that was a broad stroke covering many types of individuals but no one specifically) The Bible tells us that over time God made the plants and animals. We have no exact determination of how long a day was to God even though there are references that a day to God is a thousand years to us. If that statement is true the the earth is over 6000 years old when man was created. That contradicts the point of view that the earth is only 4000 years old. The people who wrote the books in the Bible did not comprehend the time scale of God just as they didn't comprehend the earth revolving around the sun or the size of the universe. Even an inspired work is subject to the writer's interpretation and the interpretation of the reader.
I know that evolution is a fact. Viruses mutate quickly to new conditions - it is a random event and not all mutations are successful. There are examples of successful mutations in the reptiles that became birds and experiments have given chickens teeth by stimulating genes that are dormant in their DNA. It might be possible to stimulate the right genes and make a chicken egg hatch a reptile dinosaur like non bird using the dormant DNA that exists within the bird from ages ago. 
Why do you find it so hard to believe that God created this process we call evolution to create new animals that are better suited to a changing world? The God (Creator by what ever name you use) I know is more than capable of doing this and much more.

The Bible does tell us that God made man from the slime of the earth and evolution tells us that life evolved from that same slime. Is science in agreement with the Bible? Yes, I believe it is. Science facts change as they are found to be lacking - that is because hypothesis are tested and when they are found to be in error there is growth. If you interpret the Bible correctly then it shows the complexity of the mechanisms that were created to make everything that exists today. My faith is in God because there is no proof but science doesn't require faith because it deals with evidence and proof.


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## lancestar2

inceptor said:


> I look at it this way. Evolution is God's way of helping us adapt to an ever changing world.
> 
> Morons can say what they want but I see the hand of God in everything. This world is too precise to be a random event.


so you you believe that dog's are decedents of wolfs or is that false in your opinion?


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## PaulS

I guess some people will do anything to start an argument. We used to call people like that TROLLS and would occasionally post signs saying; 
*"DON'T FEED THE TROLLS."*


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