# Just how long are you planning on surviving on your preps? What if no electricity?



## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

After reading a bunch of threads here I am curious. 

It seems like there are two types of prepping going on here. 

1.	Those who are prepping for short term (such as a few weeks or a couple months) such as after a natural disaster; and

2.	Those who are prepping for the long haul.


I am surprised by the number of people here who seem to assume that they will be just fine because they have a generator. 

For those of you who are prepping with the assumption that you will be able to use electronic devices, do you have any back-up plans just in case you no longer have access to any of the electrical devices?

There could be many reasons why your electronics may not work, so for purposes of this thread, let's assume that none of your electronics work.

Have you constructed (or at least planned) on how you will cook your meals? Have a (or multiple) dutch ovens? Cast Iron skillets?

There are some neat small stoves that are easily made (which perhaps others can imbed into this thread) out of soda cans that use rubbing alcohol, or pain cans that burn mulch that can be a big savior if you either do not want to have a larger fire seen, or have no access to dry wood.

Discuss.


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## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

Im not worried about electricity. Can take it or leave it. yes I have a generator, but that will run out soon. I would cook on my old school grill using firewood. I also have 5 cords of wood stored in my backyard. And a forest at the end of the street. Im not a fan of the cooking on the tin can thing. My grill works fine - if someone notices the smoke, good luck trying to get it from me. 

Surviving on my preps? Obviously the stored food will only last so long. Right now I have 6 months worth stored - ranging from rice to canned soup, etc. But I also have a huge garden, and stockpile seeds like crazy - at least 10 years worth stored now. For protein, I raise meat rabbits. Dressed they produce 4-5lbs of meat. Just sold the last of a litter yesterday. I can hunt as well, and a creek is not too far (1/4 mile) for fish/water.


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## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

That ^^ is similar to the mentality that I have. If we really need long term prep, we are all in for some serious hard times. I have various plans for obtaining drinkable water, and most recently I am preparing a "bucket" made from PVC piping that will fit inside a well. While I am on city water, my neighbors, including a close family member who lives 3 blocks away, have wells drilled for lawn watering purposes. I can remove the top if electricity is not functioning for a long period, and insert my simple bucket to remove fresh water. I feel that is a better long-term option than collecting rain water off a roof, which would have to be further filtered before being drinkable.

Living in Florida I have access to plenty of fish, both fresh and 5 miles away saltwater. I am investing in a seine and some of those fishing yoyos so that I can consistently rely on seafood as options. I already have nets that are great for catching shrimp. I only fear whether my route to the saltwater would be safe to travel. if not, then freshwater is very close and can hunt small game in a pinch, but figure others will also be hunting if it really is TEOTWAWKI.

Also, there is plenty of citrus fields, but the huge fields are probably about 10 miles away, and that begs the question of safety to travel on main roads that distance. 

I have seeds for a garden, but let's face it, that takes months, so I will use my stockpiles of pasta and beans and other foodstuffs to get by.

On the one hand, cooking my stash will keep me safe on my property, with no need to venture out, but if it is safe, I plan on venturing out to supplement my stocked foods with fresh fish when possible.

I do not have cords of wood stockpiled, but at the very beginning of any SHTF event, one of the the fist things I plan on doing is chopping down several trees. Once they are on the ground, I can cut them into smaller pieces for storage. I know you have to let most wood sit for months/year to be optimal for burning, so that would be my plan for long term fuel.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

My preps are designed to last until my harvest with room for error. No electricity is required.

I am slightly OT but it seems like a lot of people preparing seem to think once "SHTF" they will
forever be alone or something - kind of a wierd theory to me. I also prep to barter in such a 
future and ideally help good people get back on their feet and move us in a better direction
for a sustained life.


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## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

Ripon said:


> ...it seems like a lot of people preparing seem to think once "SHTF" they will
> forever be alone or something - kind of a wierd theory to me.


I personally am prepping so that I do not need to rely on others, but I fully intend to utilize resources, including skills of neighbors, but I want to make sure that I can sustain my family with the assumption that there will be zero government or humanitarian aid for a very long time. If aid is available, great, but my view on prepping is to not make that assumption, and prepare for the alternate.

I am not planning on bugging out. To me, that involves so many other variables, that I can see why some people plan differently than I do, but at the end of the day, something can change even the best laid plans. Those who plan on getting to their alternate location may physically not be able to due top various things. Those who plan on bugging in may be screwed if their house burns down without any back-up supplies buried or stored elsewhere.


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## SSGT (Jul 29, 2012)

I got a generator plenty of gas to cover whats in my freezer and fridge till its eaten....After that I dont need it anymore..plenty of 12 volt deep cycle batteries....solar power. Will barter the generator to some fool after that LOL!


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## wesley762 (Oct 23, 2012)

I have actually been thinking about this for a while now, short term a generator is on my list. God forbid if it gets to the point of a real long term SHTF Electricity is not part of the plan. building a good stock pyle of batteries but just for the flashlights.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

a couple things,

Generator use for when the power goes out because of a storm, is significantly differant than usage during a long term problem.

I believe we can run our generator for a half hour a day, to run the well to feed the animals, freeze the freezer and cool the fridge, maybe a half hour on twelve hour intervals would be best for refrigerator temperature maintanance.

Running a genny for 24 hours is not cost effective under any circumstance.

Our biggest issue is getting water for the cows, that would be a huge problem with out long term power.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

If you want to see a great mini wood cooker in action look on YouTube for "rocket stove". Feed it twigs and boil water in 5 minutes. A Dakota fire pit is the same concept and can be dug in a few minutes. 

I have a 1000 gallon buried propane tank that runs my generator and a 3 burner oven/stove from an old camp trailer so it uses a pilot light.

The big bottleneck will be water, if you plan on gardening it will take a boatload, at least it doesn't have to be potable. I have a blurkley for filtration and a year round spring fed creek on my property with a systern.


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## JPARIZ (Feb 25, 2013)

My preps are basic yet necessary for both brief and permanent survival. With the right items and mindset it's all the same. I plan on being here no matter what.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

Personally, it is so unlikely in America that we would be without electrical power for an extended period, I have always planned on a 30 day period of time for stocking food and water. A generator can run for a very long time period if you have sufficient fuel and perform proper maintenance. If you have a commercial generator (such as the Cummins-Oman designed for RVs and large boats) these are designed and built to run 24 hours a day, and to do so for years.

If power was out and the grid was destroyed, and after using up all the propane for propane grills and stoves, as a backup I have a fire pit outdoors that can distill water and cook food. I live in the woods, so dry wood is readily available, and I keep firewood on hand from downed trees and storm cleanups. I live at the confluence of two large rivers that feed into a large freshwater lake, so fish and game are plentiful, even under increased predation. I am not worried about smoke from fires - if you are so inexperienced in the outdoors that you don't know how to build a fire without making a lot of smoke, you won't last very long anyway. I built a water distillation unit using a pressure cooker and copper tubing, which produces a lot of fresh clean water. Bathing is a matter of walking 50 feet and diving in. So we have an abundant supply of fresh water and fresh food, and there are farmers all around for produce, pork, poultry, and beef, etc., who are friends. I focus preps on barter items, as well.

The biggest consequence of loss of electricity for us would be no air conditioning, and no refrigeration. We can swim to cool off, and will just have to eat meat and fish while it is still fresh.


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## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

Verteidiger said:


> ... if you are so inexperienced in the outdoors that you don't know how to build a fire without making a lot of smoke, you won't last very long anyway...


I am not sure what that means. If you mean that the overall survival skills will be minimal, I agree. However, if you mean that you think making a fire that gives off smoke will lead to certain death, I don't understand that, as I am not planning on being hunted in the woods like a fugitive as the mere act of cooking meat can be detected for a long way off, regardless of the presence of smoke.


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## brandonnash (Mar 11, 2013)

Hello all,

New to the forum but have been researching into my plan for some time. 

The people who can afford to have massive bug out locations with years of freeze dried food stored and expensive back up power...more power to you. Personally I cannot afford any of those things. 

I have been focusing my research on pioneer style living. Ways to build, grow, and catch or kill what I need to survive. I will probably never be able to afford all the nice things that others will in a situation like that so I will just continue looking into better ways of storing and growing food, bettering my hunting and fishing skills, learning fire craft, etc. 

The people who have a year or two of stored food, what will you do after it runs out? 

I am also concerned about a shtf type event that won't wipe out a large portion of the population, which would turn the entire world's population to hunting/fishing. This could decimate animal population in a shirt amount of time. This is one reason I would want a location away from as many people as possible. I am already out of the city but not far away enough from people. This is something I will need to plan better.


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## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

brandonnash said:


> Hello all,
> 
> New to the forum but have been researching into my plan for some time.
> 
> ...


Most people don't have the luxury of being able to buy a 6 month supply of MRE as well. I pick up $5-$10 worth of prep stuff each time I go shopping. A few cans of soup, bags of rice, etc. I am up to a 6 month supply of food, medical and survival supples (candles, matches, etc) I just bought 10 pocket knives off Ebay for $7 last night. I shop at dollar stores like crazy too. If something happens, I have my garden and meat rabbits.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

oswegoscott said:


> If the power went out tomorrow I could survive indefinitely


This. It's not just about supplies and planning either, but knowledge, intelligence, cunning, ability, and the will to survive.

And possibly a good diet of seasoned and grilled long pork.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Through bartering on firearms I met a 24 year old neighbor who left the military 4 months ago and is getting his life in order. He is the one who traded me the M1A for the AR with ammo and accessories. He didn't feel his wife could use the M1A (too heavy) and that if he fell shed have a better chance with the AR. He has not found work yet, but is getting unemployment benefits and his wife works. They bought a home in 2010 and have an affordable mortgage, but little extra income. He expressed to me the same concerns you did. I wrote him a letter, sent it to him Sat., and he wrote me back with great enthusiasm. I gave him some directions to some BLM property that is not far from my private property. I suggested this spring he camp there, hike, and locate an ideal location to bug out. It's a location that will cost him. Nothing but the trip. If he does this he can either begin storing preps there or if he feels insecure about that I will offer to let him do so on a remote piece of my nearby land. He is just the king of man and family I'd love to have around - his wife is a dental assistant. He was a medic.

So you take two trips a year to a desired bug out area. Hike and scope out a location. Invest in a tent, shovel, PVC tubes and plastic. Leave behind on site a tube with rice that can last 20+ years, ammo you can't possibly carry, seeds, first aid materials, and what ever you can ford to bring each trip. Think water, food, defense, shelter, and power. I don't invest in communications but I'm rethinking it.



brandonnash said:


> Hello all,
> 
> New to the forum but have been researching into my plan for some time.
> 
> ...


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Agree Fuzzee it is about skills, preps only increase your chances they don't make or break you. If I was just starting to prep or was on a tight budget I would suggest these things not in any particular order.
1. Figure out what you are going to do about water and Do NOT assume the local above ground sources will be useable.
2. Have as much beans bullets and bandaids as you can afford.
3. Learn the local plants that are edible, people that are planning on foraging usually only think about meat (protein) and you will be suffer from malnutrition very quickly without some carbs. For my area cattails and dandelions are the 2 best options.
4. For cooking learn about a Dakota fire pit or rocket stove.
5. Have a plan for your latrine system and garbage disposal. You will kill yourself very quickly from disease if you don't consider this, even a plan like " I have a good shovel" is better than no plan.
6.plan your security, the more you have the more likely it is someone will notice and try to take it. If you don't have much just getting out of other people's way is a good plan.
7. Know how to preserve meat and vegetables, cheap easy skill to learn and will increase your chances x 3.

I know I'll think of more as I push post, but its a good low cost start.


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## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

oswegoscott said:


> In no way will 1/2 hour twice a day maintain a freezer or frig.


^^ I agree. I would think that the best use for a generator would be to use it to operate a well. At the onset of a SHTF scenario, you can pump water out of your well, and fill your bathtubs, sinks, and storage containers. I found the following to be useful and a space-saver. Buy four of these:










It will cost about $100 for all 4. Stack all 4 inside of each other and fill the inside with dry (non-food) goods and you can store them in your garage. When SHTF, remove all 4 and you have 4X 35 gallon containers ready to hold water.

In case any of you are wondering about it being safe, I currently have several fish aquariums at home, including seahorses, which are very tempermental. I have not experienced any deaths of my sea-life and 100% of my sealife live in water that has been run through an RO system and then stored for weeks/months in these exact containers. All I did was give the insides a saltwater scrubbing. There is nothing leaching into my water that is dangerous enough to kill my fragile sealife, so I am certain it will be safe for me.

In the event you do not have a generator (or simply want to save it), you can take water from a nearby fire hydrant, but you probably need to do that within the first few hours of a loss of power to be safe. If you will filter it later, then you probably can use water from a fire hydrant for several days after city water stops working, as it will still have chlorine in it.


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## Kidzthinkimahoarder (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm currently prepping for a years worth of supply, along with barter items. I plan on being self-sufficient and between my husband, boys, myself and family, we are plenty resourceful.

As far as electricity goes, it can go. I don't have a generator, nor plan to buy one. Instead I'm stocking lantern fuel, candles, matches, outdoor solar lighting..etc.

As far as cooking goes, I am very seasoned in the open fire cooking area...not only having done it for years, but own the pots and pans to do it with, along with cooking grates etc.

As far as cooking fuel, and heat in winter, I own 11 wooded acres that mine for the taking.

I'm also working on adding an edible landscape to my yard, along with what plants I grow each year. And, I have a lake within earshot of my house.

So, what may look short term, it's actually in planning for long term...but enough to get us on our feet w/o having to do without completely.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

snork said:


> I am not sure what that means. If you mean that the overall survival skills will be minimal, I agree. However, if you mean that you think making a fire that gives off smoke will lead to certain death, I don't understand that, as I am not planning on being hunted in the woods like a fugitive as the mere act of cooking meat can be detected for a long way off, regardless of the presence of smoke.


What I meant was smoke can be seen from miles away, and can give away your position to others.

The smell of meat being cooked can be detected by humans, but not from miles away.

In a situation where electricity is out completely for an extended period, food will be scarce as people compete for such resources. A plume of smoke will act like a beacon for hungry people looking to raid for food. Your scenario does not presume everyone will be having backyard BBQs, but I plan to be far enough away where food smells will dissipate. People cannot smell with binoculars, but they can see smoke very easily.


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## Dunbar (Sep 17, 2012)

I think we are all prepping to stay alive for... for as long as we can. Why prep for 10 days? We, at the least, try and prep for LIFE. Of course we can not expect, or anticipate all the of threats living in an urban environment. Urban living... there are many of us that don't have the opportunity of open space.

And those who live in rural areas. Rich with opportunities. Opportunities that are open for the taking.

At most, and at best, we are preparing to live on our own. To live alone. Hopefully we can use the site to build a community that will help each other. To know who, and where, our friends are.


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## Kidzthinkimahoarder (Feb 11, 2013)

I have to add this; I prep for where I live also...the type environment I live in.

But, if I had my way....I'd trade modern day living in a heartbeat even as I sit here on my computer, with the satellite dish and cell phone within arms reach for a homestead somewhere off the grid in a far away place. Ohh, I'm sure I'd think twice about it come the first humid hotter than hades day we are notorious for in Arkansas. But if push come to shove and I had to do without, all I would say is, "Ohh well, I enjoyed it while it lasted."


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Dunbar said:


> I think we are all prepping to stay alive for... for as long as we can. Why prep for 10 days? We, at the least, try and prep for LIFE. Of course we can not expect, or anticipate all the of threats living in an urban environment. Urban living... there are many of us that don't have the opportunity of open space.
> 
> And those who live in rural areas. Rich with opportunities. Opportunities that are open for the taking.
> 
> At most, and at best, we are preparing to live on our own. To live alone. Hopefully we can use the site to build a community that will help each other. To know who, and where, our friends are.


Hey Dunbar, I saw your 13F label, I was 13E FDC for my first 6 years until I got stupid and joined the tread heads! Actually only way I could get E7 in a reasonable time, field artillery sucks for rank.

Were you in the 10th?


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## Renec (Dec 21, 2012)

Here is my thoughts on my situation...I live in a community..let's say 150 homes built close together(standard suburbia),surround by ranches and farms,those surrounded by Wilderness preserves and major lakes to the North..Canyon,Apache are the first 2 that come to mind.What I've learned by both watching the disasters in New Orleans and New York and living in the Ny metro area...your neighbors ARE NOT your friends.ok,well..some might be.But the majority of them? no..if things go South..we'll be heading out to a safer location.Because I don't care how many beers you shared in the driveway with the fella next door..when his kid hasn't eaten in 3 days and he's starving...and he smells YOUR food cooking..there will be issues.Now multiply that by 75..or 100.maybe 50 folks here prep,maybe none do.If the situation seems like it may last more than 3 days...it's off for an extended camping trip and I'll monitor the situation by emergency radio.
Currently,we've got enough dry goods put away to last us about a month without being supplemented..and trust me,we'll be fishing and taking birds for the pot as often as we can to extend that food supply for as long as possible.Shelter,check..tho I'm looking at something a bit larger than the little backpacker's tent that I usually carry.Fire,no issues..water..plenty to be had in the several locations I've scouted..yep,several.Because nothing sucks more than finding that someone else just took your favorite spot.We won't be going too far..just far enough to be away from the silly folks who will sit in their homes,starving and wondering when the Government will be coming to save them.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I found this good post on planing a one year pantry layer by layer it has a lot of hyperlinks with even more information on subjects.
The One-Year Pantry, Layer by Layer

Most of my supplies I look at as a gateway to a new world if there was a TEOTWAWKI event. I have enough gas to run my generators and welders long enough to make what ever adjustment I may need such as turning a water heater (useless without city water) into a stove or heater. Enough gas to use the tiller to till up all my usable land for growing. Can cook and heat a room for a few months on 20lb propane cylinders. I personally believe that most people that can make it through the first couple of months should be ingenious enough to adapt to the situation at hand. Much easier than trying to figure out all of the possible combination of events that may happen.


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## vulf (Feb 8, 2013)

Its a work in progress that is the best way to do it, each month buy what extra you can and in time it just builds up, but minimum you should spend extra to have one month, then grow from there.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

bennettvm said:


> Im not worried about electricity. Can take it or leave it. yes I have a generator, but that will run out soon. I would cook on my old school grill using firewood. I also have 5 cords of wood stored in my backyard. And a forest at the end of the street. Im not a fan of the cooking on the tin can thing. My grill works fine - if someone notices the smoke, good luck trying to get it from me.
> 
> Surviving on my preps? Obviously the stored food will only last so long. Right now I have 6 months worth stored - ranging from rice to canned soup, etc. But I also have a huge garden, and stockpile seeds like crazy - at least 10 years worth stored now. For protein, I raise meat rabbits. Dressed they produce 4-5lbs of meat. Just sold the last of a litter yesterday. I can hunt as well, and a creek is not too far (1/4 mile) for fish/water.


I don't do rabbit, but the rest is how I go.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> I don't do rabbit, but the rest is how I go.


But Bug's is soooooo tasty. Made into stew, baked with vegetables and a nice savory gravy and potatoes, season rubbed and grilled, ummm umm good.


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## IngaLisa (Jan 31, 2013)

My prepping assumes there will be no electricity. It's also sustainable, including eggs, chickens, and an acre garden. I save seed. I live less than a quarter of a mile from two fishable rivers, and 3 miles from a lake. I do have lamp oil, and I need to get more solar powered lights. I also need to get a pump so I can access my well. We heat with wood. There are forests here, but I am also thinking of putting in some fast growing trees. They are usually poor quality wood, but, it beats nothing. My concern is the amount of environmental damage being done in my state by mining and CAFOs (corporate farms). We are thought of as a pristine state, but, we are not. There are few places where nature is pristine any more.  I would have to distill my water to get the nitrates and other junk out.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Electricity is needed for nothing essential except heat at times, insuring an alternate heat source will remove the need for electricity. I am off grid with solar and wind as a backup. 
I use my self generated electricity for generally two things, my music hobby to power my electronic music devices and for my computer and internet connection, which is a wireless internet system. Also for my radio. I use lights almost never. I find that living during daylight hours as opposed to night hours actually helps regulate the mind and body more effectively with natural biological inputs. Having emergency flashlights is also good. If you want light at night even a solar lamp may be sufficient, or a crank flashlight/radio. 

I also have electricity sloted for radio transmission, and charging HT. My gps, sdr receivers all run on my laptop.
I can even charge my laptop at municipal points if the grid is up. Generally unless i cover my two laminants which are about up to 250 watts at 24v there are days when I actually HAVE to run the TV as a dump. I can run my computer for many hours. If were to add one more lamniant for $150 I could run a server 24/7.
I just bought a mobile for $3500 that has propane fridge/stove/furnace. I hand wash my clothes and hang them up to dry. Although I could use the laundry mat if it stays operating if I needed it. (Technically my 6000 watt inverter I think can handle the dryer but it isn't needed to be used)

I can't think what I would need electricity for.

Industry needs electricity. People don't. It is a luxury. Used for electronics based hobbies.

It can also be used as a backup heat source in extreme emergencies, but you shouldn't rely on electricity as a principle heat source.


I also have a wood furnace and a couple other emergency fuel sources, such as hard liquor.


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## Hardknocks24 (Nov 8, 2012)

As a electrician I store car batteries all through my route to my shelter every thing is Buried to my loc center . And I run a lot lot of hydro electricity . To recharge every thing . Batteries for tractors are very strong and u don't need as many of them,compare to car batteries . If all fails go old school do every thing during day at night run camp fires by useing dried cow patties.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Organic Frisbees really work.


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