# I'm Like a Chick; Always Changing My Mind



## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

A few days ago I posted a thread about quality, budget rifles. The Ruger American Rifle was in the category of ones I was thinking about. Some of you also know that I am a vicious fan of the 300 Blackout Round, to the point I've even hurt some folks feelings in heated discussions over the round.

***Disclaimer - I am not saying it is the worlds perfect round, or a be all/end all - I like it. A lot. And I understand it's potential and diversity. So please lets not get in a debate over the round. If you don't like it cool, but don't tell me I'm some kind of ignorant asshole because I do. - END OF DISCLAIMER*** :-D

Ruger has recently released the "Ruger American Rifle - Ranch" in 300 AAC Blackout. I plan to build an AR this winter. Then I went "Hmmm".

I could have an AR, a bolt gun and an H&R single shot Handi-Rifle...all in 300 Blackout. How cool would that be?


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Well I'm going to be ignorant.... Neah I got nothing to say

As long as it go boom and the end result is impressive, each to their own (nice looking gun porn by the way)


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Slippy approves!



bigdogbuc said:


> A few days ago I posted a thread about quality, budget rifles. The Ruger American Rifle was in the category of ones I was thinking about. Some of you also know that I am a vicious fan of the 300 Blackout Round, to the point I've even hurt some folks feelings in heated discussions over the round.
> 
> ***Disclaimer - I am not saying it is the worlds perfect round, or a be all/end all - I like it. A lot. And I understand it's potential and diversity. So please lets not get in a debate over the round. If you don't like it cool, but don't tell me I'm some kind of ignorant asshole because I do. - END OF DISCLAIMER*** :-D
> 
> ...


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Get two.


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## Suntzu (Sep 22, 2014)

Sorry, I can't not say it, even after you said not to. How can you be concerned about choosing budget rifles, whilst choosing to do everything in 300 blackout?
Ammo cost always outweighs rifle cost in a very short time. 300 blackout is somewhere between massively overpriced and insanely overpriced on the ammo cost spectrum. The ammo will cost more than the rifle in just a few range visits.
I'm not here to argue the ballistics, just the logistics.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Suntzu said:


> Sorry, I can't not say it, even after you said not to. How can you be concerned about choosing budget rifles, whilst choosing to do everything in 300 blackout?
> Ammo cost always outweighs rifle cost in a very short time. 300 blackout is somewhere between massively overpriced and insanely overpriced on the ammo cost spectrum. The ammo will cost more than the rifle in just a few range visits.
> I'm not here to argue the ballistics, just the logistics.


I believe the term they use is "Reloading". There are many calibers that the only way you can afford to shoot it is to roll your own. 300 Blackout is one. I reloaded 45 Colt for about .$25 a round as commercial ammo was over a $1 a round and anemic at best.

One of the intriguing parts of this round, holistically, is I can buy .223 brass all day long and convert it over to 300 Blackout with a trim and re-size. Something that I find relaxing and take satisfaction in "creating my own round". I can also buy "fully processed brass" that started life as .223/5.56, was once fired, discarded, and reborn as 300 Blackout, relatively cheaply. You just have to ask yourself what your time is worth and do you want to bother with doing it yourself. I use it as an excuse to buy some neat little bench top chop saw. But I'm not opposed to buying converted brass either.

Bullet wise, it will cost no more than loading .308 or 30-06 because they're the same bullet.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

In the end it is your cash, your life and your weapon. After you have gather the facts, saved the cash you go with the facts ,your heart or both. But for now at least in this country you can have it your way. Get what you really want and enjoy.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Soon I'll have enough split neck 556 cases that will need converting,until then it's boom,boom,boom with the 224's
Or until the right 300 comes available............


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

That black 300 is some xxx rifle porn. Damn sexy.


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## Suntzu (Sep 22, 2014)

bigdogbuc said:


> I can buy .223 brass all day long and convert it over to 300 Blackout with a trim and re-size. Something that I find relaxing and take satisfaction in "creating my own round". I can also buy "fully processed brass" that started life as .223/5.56, was once fired, discarded, and reborn as 300 Blackout, relatively cheaply. You just have to ask yourself what your time is worth and do you want to bother with doing it yourself. I use it as an excuse to buy some neat little bench top chop saw. But I'm not opposed to buying converted brass either.


Reloading is very satisfying. I've never converted 300 blackout, but it looks easier than 30-06 to 7.7 Jap. A time consuming process that I wouldn't want to do in bulk though.
Now that I understand your ammo plan, Why have both a bolt action and a single shot? When would you choose to shoot the single action over the bolt? It seems a bit like buying a both a v6 and a v8 of the same car. If you have a v8, when would you drive the v6?

Disclaimer of my own: I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm not just going to be another yes man. I won't just say "Do whatever you feel" without asking honest questions first.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Just get a 308. It will do anything the 300 will and shoot out to 1000 yards all the way down to subsonic suppressed. 

Maybe pick up a 30/30 instead of the 300 if that's the level of performance your looking to get out of the rifle.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

I like the 300 Blackout, but If I was doing it, I'd choose the 338 Spectre. I'd build it to take cast projectiles.

The 338 carries more energy downrange than the 300 Blackout.

Regardless, in my opinion (if you have the ammo situation sorted out), it is a great upgrade to the ubiquitous 223.

One benefit of the 300 is that the brass is easier to find/form.

Keep us posted.

AJ


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

I've never seen the advantage of .300 BLK in a bolt gun or single shot rifle (nor 5.56 or 7.62x39 for that matter). It's great for an AR, and as a replacement in an AR or similar weapon (Tavor, SCAR, etc) for 5.56, I think its a great idea. When it comes to bolt guns, that's where the larger caliber really comes into play. .300BLK is a great carbine round. Works very well inside of 200-250 yards, and can be effective out to 400 or so. Beyond that, you're in .308 territory. So, for the effective range of .300BLK, a semi-auto high capacity carbine makes far more sense than a bolt action or single shot rifle. Sadly, there isn't a "do it all perfectly" cartridge out there. You're going to either need a couple cartridges, or you're going to sacrifice performance at one end to make up for it at another. The .300BLK/.308 team seems to be the best bet, at least in my opinion.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

There are so many options. If I had to pick a round that would work in all three platforms I would go with 7.62x51/.308. I love the .300 blackout but it's just not that easy to come by yet.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I like gun porn


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Suntzu said:


> Reloading is very satisfying. I've never converted 300 blackout, but it looks easier than 30-06 to 7.7 Jap. A time consuming process that I wouldn't want to do in bulk though.
> Now that I understand your ammo plan, Why have both a bolt action and a single shot? When would you choose to shoot the single action over the bolt? It seems a bit like buying a both a v6 and a v8 of the same car. If you have a v8, when would you drive the v6?
> 
> Disclaimer of my own: I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm not just going to be another yes man. I won't just say "Do whatever you feel" without asking honest questions first.


Given your screen name, I wouldn't expect any less. 

Why a bolt AND a single shot? Why not? That particular choice isn't one of absolute practicality. It's more "just because". Sometimes you just have to do what makes you feel good. I've considered the H&R for a couple of years now and I like its philosophy of use, even given it's limitations. I refuse to spend $800 on the Remington Micro 7. Then Ruger came out with this, and I suspect it will take a while before they become readily available, but the price is fantastic.

But I can get the H&R right now for less than $300 bucks. I don't have the money right now, but when I do, it's there. Off the top of my head, I couldn't give you a specific reason of why or where I would choose it over a bolt gun, other than I could disassemble it and stick it in a back pack to take camping or something. Other than that, it would be "just 'cause I felt like it". I also have a weird affinity for single shot break action guns.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Chipper said:


> Just get a 308. It will do anything the 300 will and shoot out to 1000 yards all the way down to subsonic suppressed.
> 
> Maybe pick up a 30/30 instead of the 300 if that's the level of performance your looking to get out of the rifle.


I like the .308, but that's not what I'm going for. Hell, every gun guy likes .308. My selections though, are based around the AR platform, of which the others would "compliment" that platform. Even building a .308 platform myself is really pricey. Mags are expensive. Brass is expensive. The entire proposition of .308 is just plain expensive. And hard to come across right now.

Also, there is no difference in performance between .308 and 300 Blackout at sub-sonic speeds, suppressed or not. Same bullets, hopefully pushed to as close to supersonic as possible, therefore the same laws of physics/ballistics apply. The caliber of the "launching platform" has nothing to do with it. At supersonic, the .308 outperforms for sure. Sub? Same same.

One of the reasons I like the 300 Blackout was the reason for its development; interchangeability with the current 5.56 platform. Same lower, same mags, same brass etc. I also plan to build a 5.56 Upper and switch out for the fun of it. Like the .308 and the 300 Blackout, I can get a bolt gun and a single shot in 5.56/.223...

I just want to build around a cheaper platform.

As far as 30/30, completely different animal and I've never seen an AR platform for it. I am happy with the performance the 300 Blackout offers, this is more about versatility and the 300 Blackout has plenty of it.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Alpha-17 said:


> I've never seen the advantage of .300 BLK in a bolt gun or single shot rifle (nor 5.56 or 7.62x39 for that matter). It's great for an AR, and as a replacement in an AR or similar weapon (Tavor, SCAR, etc) for 5.56, I think its a great idea. When it comes to bolt guns, that's where the larger caliber really comes into play. .300BLK is a great carbine round. Works very well inside of 200-250 yards, and can be effective out to 400 or so. Beyond that, you're in .308 territory. So, for the effective range of .300BLK, a semi-auto high capacity carbine makes far more sense than a bolt action or single shot rifle. Sadly, there isn't a "do it all perfectly" cartridge out there. You're going to either need a couple cartridges, or you're going to sacrifice performance at one end to make up for it at another. The .300BLK/.308 team seems to be the best bet, at least in my opinion.


Let's consider that I am probably not going into battle any time soon. And yes, the optimum use for 300 Blackout is in an AR platform. As for a bolt gun, or the H&R, the 300BLK is a good round for hunting (proven), and, if SHTF, an excellent choice for putting a can on and being whisper quiet (as opposed to the extra noise an AR will make cycling) when taking out the "zombies". And just fun to go shoot while the world is still here in a semi-normal holding pattern.

I am looking more at the capability, as well as the limitations of the round, and its versatility in supplies, uses standard AR mags, uses a common bullet etc.; I am NOT a Sniper and I live in an urban area, in a region of the country with dense forests and heavy undergrowth so it is doubtful I will be taking shots beyond 400 yards. If my adversary is at 400 yards, I want them to stay there or increase that distance so they don't know I'm there in the first place. Not pick a fight.

I like the knock down of the .30 caliber bullet with the 5.56 feel (and equipment) without the overall expense of the .308


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