# The End of America



## indie

Hey guys.

So, I recently picked up this book, The End of America. It was $.99 on Amazon and it talks about the author's interpretation of Biblical end times prophecy. In a nutshell, through some very compelling points, but also some verses taken out of context, he says that:

After Israel signs the upcoming peace treaty, which is supposed to involve ceding land, they will consider themselves at peace and then be attacked by what is now Russia, Iran, Syria and some others. When that happens, we will fail to defend Israel and God will strike us down.

He draws some parallels between the Quran and Bible about end times and has concluded that America will be struck down by either nuclear ground or EMP attacks, set off by radical Islam.

His premise is that America is the Daughter of Babylon, and you can Google to see many opinions on this. The main point of the book is that America is done, it's over and we're just waiting for the cards to fall. He says we should all head to South and Central America and that the time frame would be after the peace treaty but hopefully before Israel is attacked.

I thought it was an interesting read, but it's been years since I regularly read the Bible so I don't remember much about end times stuff and am trying to delve in more deeply now to see what I see. Anyway, thought some of you might find it interesting. If you _have_ read it, I'd love to discuss it because it gives a lot of food for thought.

The main references are to Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Revelation 18. There are some others, and it irritated the heck out of me that he felt the need to quote verses that obviously referred to ancient Babylon, but it sure is interesting to contemplate.


----------



## pheniox17

read the entire book of revelations, don't have a bible, call ANY local church, they will give you one

Quran, same again (I have read both, but not cover to cover, the Quran makes me feel very uneasy reading it, as negative feelings uneasy)

to the book you described, nice share, but not my taste...

god bless


----------



## inceptor

I have heard several predictions that Israel will be attacked and the US will not come to their aide. With our current president and the next one, that wouldn't surprise me.

Please understand that I am FAR from being a Biblical scholar. This is how I understand it.

The US is not mentioned in the Bible at all. Some say that we are Mystery Babylon. It could be but I don't know. Could we be close to the following point?

_Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him._ (NIV)

It is possible we are getting close to this time, things are coming together at rapid pace. One thing that had to happen was Israel becoming a state again. That happened in 1948. The Temple needs to be rebuilt. That could start at the beginning of the 7 year period. The Temple needs to be rebuilt for this to happen.

_2 Thessalonians 2:4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God._ (NIV)

_Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the prophet Daniel-let the reader understand- 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again._ (NIV)


----------



## Titan6

Ive done my deeds for king and country, I am Christian .. I am not worried when the end comes.. I believe in my creator I strive to live by his laws and when I die I hope I have satisfied him....As for the world ending , we are in bad times and we have the weapons to do it so it will be inevitable that the button is pushed either by a country or group of radical Islamist..I look at the bible as a guideline for each us to intemperate in our own way and to live a Good a fruitful life by its laws..That's all we can do anyhow..


----------



## lancestar2

O-M-G !  Have you guys heard about this Y-2-K thing! ...I found it online and I think this is going to be the end of the world!!!!!






....oh wait that was 14 years ago? really? :roll: but THIS end of the world deal is FOR REAL RIGHT? Not like that mayan calendar, cold war, middle eastern terrorism, and the world flooding with global warming... oh ok GOT IT least now we all know FOR REAL THIS TIME!!!! it's gotta be true by now right?


----------



## vandelescrow

I never read it but in the mid 80's I heard about a book call "The raise and fall of the world great powers". It started out with Egypt, then Rome and went all through history to WW II Germany, Japan, France and England no longer being the powers they once were. Leaving only the U.S. and U.S.S.R. stating they are next. That is where the book ends. Well there is no longer a U.S.S.R so guess who's next. No telling when but the U.S. will eventually fall as a world power. I believe it was said about the U.S. in it's infancy "The great democracy experiment".

A friend of mine said this country needs to fail big time soon, while there are still people around that know how to fix it.


----------



## inceptor

vandelescrow said:


> I never read it but in the mid 80's I heard about a book call "The raise and fall of the world great powers". It started out with Egypt, then Rome and went all through history to WW II Germany, Japan, France and England no longer being the powers they once were. Leaving only the U.S. and U.S.S.R. stating they are next. That is where the book ends. Well there is no longer a U.S.S.R so guess who's next. No telling when but the U.S. will eventually fall as a world power. I believe it was said about the U.S. in it's infancy "The great democracy experiment".
> 
> A friend of mine said this country needs to fail big time soon, while there are still people around that know how to fix it.


Lance is right. That is a joke because bad things only happen to other people, not to us. It CAN'T possibly happen here. :roll:


----------



## Denton

America in prophesy. That is has been a topic of discussion for a long time. The closest anyone has ever come to placing America in the Bible that made any sense to me was by using Ezekiel 38:13, where Tarshish is used by some to suggest that being Britain, and the cubs being those countries that were influenced by her, such as America. Problem is, there is no record of Britain being Tarshish. This being the case, I can't even say that America is mentioned in that regard, either.

So, where are we? We are with the rest of the world, I think, but for one difference that separates us from much of the world. We were born as a "Christian nation." Our forefathers knew who was the Creator, they knew Jesus and they worshiped as a Christian nation. For many years, the early battle cry, "No King but King Jesus!" could easily have been our societal motto, even with all the ails our nation needed to work through. Look at us, now. Our churches are lukewarm, our society as a whole is carnal and fragmented, and the God of our forefathers is either an afterthought or totally dismissed by this nation. One may claim this has happened to us because of social re-engineering, performed by those who want to destroy America, but the true blame rests on each member of our nation. To say otherwise is to say that Eve, and then Adam, should be held blameless and all the sin should be placed on Satan.

I believe this nation is being disciplined, right now, and the discipline is going to get tougher. Discipline is not judgement, it is meant to bring a child, or a nation, back to where it is supposed to be. Judgement will come when the nation does not respond to discipline. Do you imagine this carnal nation responding to the disciplining of a God it doesn't even respect, anymore? You can figure what is next.

Rather than attempting to place America into prophesy in such a specific manner, another way of looking at this is that we aren't that big a bag of chips as we think we are. There is no mention of this big, bad, and strong nation. For whatever reason, this (once) Christian nation is not mentioned in the Bible in any prophesy. Seems to me that is a very big clue. On the other hand, we do know that the Anti-Christ and his system will control all commerce, all politics, and will force all to take a mark that signifies that the recipient has sided with him. All, those, that is, who have not figured out who he is and refuses to take the mark. We all know what is in store for those people, but we also know what that mark means for those who do take it.

It seems very clear that things are happening at a pace that is dizzying. We know that this nation has enemies, we know this once strong nation is spiritually weak, and we know that this nation is not going to come to Israel's aid when she is in the most desperate time, ever. We do know that God leaves that defense up to Himself and no other entity will get credit for that. There'll be no mistaking.

Don't have a Bible? Well, you have the internet, and here is a handy site I use when sharing verses.
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.

I am a sinner. I am an irreverent goofball, half of the time. I have to crawl back to my Savior to ask forgiveness for being an idiot, and I have to do that many times a day. I say this more to me than anyone else who is reading this; the time is growing short and it is time to get close to God. That is the ultimate preparation.


----------



## retired guard

If you are good with God everything else is window dressing. If you are not good with God everything else is window dressing.


----------



## dwight55

One of the greatest mistakes of attempting to figure out prophesy, . . . trying to pin a perfect interpretation to everything there.

Because of the inherent lack of sufficient knowledge, . . . that simply cannot be done.

Therefore, . . . take the things we CAN SEE, . . . CAN understand, . . . CAN know, . . . and concentrate on them.

Just for example, . . . a few things that are without doubt natural, physical, observable, events that willl be seen, . . . and have not previously (in their total listed consecutive order) having occurred:

Rev 6:8 says that in a fairly short time frame, 1/4th of the population of the entire Earth will be killed with sword, hunger, death, and beasts of the Earth.

Rev 6:13 says there will be a great earthquake, the sun becoming black as sackcloth and the moon becoming as blood (this is also mentioned in Matthew 24:29)

Rev 7:1 says the winds will stop blowing on the Earth 

Rev 8:7 says that hail / fire / blood will come down from the sky, 1/3rd of all trees and all green grass will be burned up

Rev 11 says there will be a ruler of sorts that will for all tense and purposes, . . . be a world ruler.

Rev 11 says that Israel will have rebuilt the Temple Of Jehovah (not the church of Jesus Christ ! )

Rev 11 says that this ruler will have two nemesis prophets who will prophesy against him for 1260 days, . . . after which he succeessfully kills them (but they are resurrected 3 1/2 days later )

Rev 11 also says that the end of the world judgment is set, and becomes a reality at the end when the 7th trumpet is sounded

Rev 13 says the aforementioned world ruler will persecute Christians world wide, . . . and he will demand all obey if not worship him

Rev 13 also says that the world government system will cause all to receive a mark in their right hand or their forehead, and if they do not have the mark, they cannot buy or sell (please note it is a physical attribute allowing one to engage in commerce, and may not necessarily be a stamped name, tattoo, etc, but rather may be something like an rfid chip)

Rev 18 says there is a mighty city (could be in fact a major country, depending on the interpretation of the city word) will be destroyed in one hour, 60 minutes, 3600 seconds. Without a nuclear blast, . . . that is almost impossible, . . . in so short a time span to take out a major city of the world that according to the text is a renouned world trader of great quantities.

I am not a prophet, . . . don't claim to know much more than the 25+ years of study I have put into my passion: the end times, and I have come away with a simple understanding that we need only to look for the above events (there are others, these are the highlights) and by doing so we can see the "prophetic" clock hands as they move.

I do have a small booklet, . . . in both *.doc and *.txt that deals with the end times as I understand it. Again, it is only the culmination of my study since I became a Christian, . . . but the conclusions I made satisfy the requirements of scripture and my curiosity.

If anyone would like a copy of it, . . . simply PM me, . . . give me a regular email address, . . . I'll send it with my prayers.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## dannydefense

lancestar2 said:


> O-M-G !  Have you guys heard about this Y-2-K thing! ...I found it online and I think this is going to be the end of the world!!!!!


She was asking people to discuss the book. She didn't ask for the idiots in the room to put up their hand.


----------



## Denton

dannydefense said:


> She was asking people to discuss the book. She didn't ask for the idiots in the room to put up their hand.


Maybe it would be better to not throw peanuts to the monkeys.


----------



## retired guard

I have a question. The Pharisees studied the scriptures. They observed the letter if not the spirit of the law. How are we better? When the Messiah came he did everything he said but nothing they expected.


----------



## Denton

retired guard said:


> I have a question. The Pharisees studied the scriptures. They observed the letter if not the spirit of the law. How are we better? When the Messiah came he did everything he said but nothing they expected.


They also added to the law, warped and perverted it. They praised themselves, walked with high heads and controlled the population for their Roman masters so that they would stay in good favor with them.

Sounds a bit like some mega-church pastors of today, in many ways.


----------



## inceptor

Dwight, correct me if I'm wrong but all of what you posted takes place after 7 year treaty is signed. The anti-christ will be directing things behind the scene. Right after the treaty is signed then Israel is allowed to rebuild the temple. It's after the temple is built and the anti-christ proclaims himself the the seals are broken.

retired guard. The Pharisees (and also the Sadducees) were more concerning with not getting into trouble with the Romans than anything else. That is the leaders. Many Pharisee's became Christians.

Christ said in Matthew 5:17 _Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 *For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.*_(emphasis mine) NIV

The Pharisee leaders kept looking for a reason to get rid of Jesus. They were afraid Jesus would bring the Roman army down on them. Jesus drew large crowd and the Roman army was afraid of riots and insurrection.


----------



## inceptor

Denton said:


> They also added to the law, warped and perverted it. They praised themselves, walked with high heads and controlled the population for their Roman masters so that they would stay in good favor with them.
> 
> Sounds a bit like some mega-church pastors of today, in many ways.


I agree.


----------



## retired guard

Thank you both for your insight.


----------



## Denton

retired guard said:


> Thank you both for your insight.


We are all in this together.


----------



## alterego

It would be difficult to like most every post in this thread. I would like to thank all of you for the thought full thread. Remember the wise man shall calculate and know one knows the day of his return so prepare for it.


----------



## vandelescrow

I tried for years to understand Revelations. I asked the church I was going to at the time to explain something in it. I was told "that has to do with the future, we are concerned with the here and now". What? If I'm not concerned about the future, why am I in the church?

Anyway, I know it is fiction but the series of books "Left Behind" really helped me understand Revelations. Then later a different church I was going to started a year long analysis of Revelations. The pastor was great because he would explain this certain word translated from Hebrew was, and the meaning of that word at the time actually had 3 meanings so this sentence could read . . . Unfortunately one month into the study I had to move out of state, dang.


----------



## inceptor

vandelescrow said:


> I tried for years to understand Revelations. I asked the church I was going to at the time to explain something in it. I was told "that has to do with the future, we are concerned with the here and now". What? If I'm not concerned about the future, why am I in the church?
> 
> Anyway, I know it is fiction but the series of books "Left Behind" really helped me understand Revelations. Then later a different church I was going to started a year long analysis of Revelations. The pastor was great because he would explain this certain word translated from Hebrew was, and the meaning of that word at the time actually had 3 meanings so this sentence could read . . . Unfortunately one month into the study I had to move out of state, dang.


I found a guy by the name of Dr Bill Creasy by accident. I subscribe to audible.com. I found an audio of Revelation by him and bought it. The first thing he teaches is that there is nothing new in Revelation. All prophecy listed there is discussed throughout the Bible. He also states that many don't realize that the Bible is a book like any other. It has a start, a finish and at the very end you are at the beginning again. All the books of the Bible are related.

I have actually read the Bible cover to cover twice. I never really did understand it well until I found the good Dr. I bought roughly 10 different books of the Bible he taught although not in order. I am on Isaiah now. I found him on the internet and saw he had a One Year Bible Study course. I just bought it. This guy is a great teacher.


----------



## PaulS

I have read and tried to understand and accept many different versions of the Bible. There are a few things that stand out to me....

We are made by the Creator. The creator knows us better than we know ourselves. He made us with frailties and free will. When we fall He is there to help. He loves us. 

None of us is worthy of his love but we each have it. As long as you seek Him you are fine. When you replace Him with other things; lust, money, or depravity, you lose.

I figure that my Creator and I are going to have a lot of laughs when I die - maybe over a glass of wine - but we are buds and I don't see that changing unless I drastically change my path.


----------



## inceptor

PaulS said:


> I have read and tried to understand and accept many different versions of the Bible. There are a few things that stand out to me....
> 
> We are made by the Creator. The creator knows us better than we know ourselves. He made us with frailties and free will. When we fall He is there to help. He loves us.
> 
> None of us is worthy of his love but we each have it. As long as you seek Him you are fine. When you replace Him with other things; lust, money, or depravity, you lose.
> 
> I figure that my Creator and I are going to have a lot of laughs when I die - maybe over a glass of wine - but we are buds and I don't see that changing unless I drastically change my path.


Amen!

I really wish I could hit the like button a lot on that.

They say the Good Lord watches out over fools, idiots and the truly stupid. I figure I must hit 2 out of 3 categories because he has saved me from being real stupid more times than I can count.

I am as far from perfect as the east is from the west. I don't deserve what He has done for me but He did it anyhow. He has blessed me beyond belief. He gave me the 2 greatest gifts ever. 
1. His love, grace and forgiveness. 
2. My wife. She was truly a gift from him. I didn't deserve someone so wonderful but He makes all things possible.


----------



## dwight55

inceptor said:


> Dwight, correct me if I'm wrong but all of what you posted takes place after 7 year treaty is signed. The anti-christ will be directing things behind the scene. Right after the treaty is signed then Israel is allowed to rebuild the temple. It's after the temple is built and the anti-christ proclaims himself the the seals are broken.
> 
> The Pharisee leaders kept looking for a reason to get rid of Jesus. They were afraid Jesus would bring the Roman army down on them. Jesus drew large crowd and the Roman army was afraid of riots and insurrection.


Inceptor, . . . one of the things I personally believe is a KEY to understanding the events, . . . take Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, . . . look at the progression of events, . . . and how Jesus says "then" or "and then", . . . which tells us the events are in a consecutive arrangement.

THIS happens, . . . and THEN, . . . THAT happens, . . . and THEN, . . . THAT happns, . . . etc.

Use that understanding as a overlay for the first 11 chapters of Revelation, . . . the events are more or less consecutive in their occurrances, . . . the seven seals, . . . followed by the seven trumpets. At the end of chapter 11, . . . life on this earth is finished, . . . the book is done, . . . no more events are possible on Terra Firma as we know life.

_And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 11:18 (KJV)_

The bowls of wrath are mentioned later, . . . kind of like watching one of those shows on television where the events are not shown in real time as they are portrayed in the story. The bowls of wrath will come somewhere in the trumpets (IMHO) especially during the last 1260 days.

As for the riots and insurrection, . . . you are very perceptive in noting that especially in Capernaum, . . . Jesus had a special relationship with the Centurion there (who was basically the mayor, chief of police, and controlled the infrastructure of the city as its appointed leader). After healing the centurion's servant (fairly early in his 3 year ministry) no one in his half baked right mind would have taken any sort of charges to the Centurion, . . . he'd a probably wound up in the dungeon for even thinking about it.

But, . . . seeing as how the Romans at Jerusalem were all too quick to get involved in the crucifixion, . . . that influence didn't extend the distance of the two cities.

IMHO, . . . it was nothing but political jealousy that brought Jesus to the cross, . . . much like is done in WDC today, . . . except the cross used today is ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Inor

dwight55 said:


> IMHO, . . . it was nothing but political jealousy that brought Jesus to the cross, . . . much like is done in WDC today, . . . except the cross used today is ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.


That is pretty smart Dwight. I had not thought about it in modern terms, but I think you are absolutely correct. Another good reason not to watch TV.


----------



## indie

I started a thoughtful response and then...kids. Thanks, everyone, for the discussion. I appreciate all the additional insights and more food for thought. Well, except for maybe Lance's. 

One thing I took away from this book was this confirmation of the uneasiness inside me about my belief that we can fix this country. I've been struggling between wanting to get more involved to seek a change and getting my kids out somewhere else. One of his arguments is that even if you don't believe the prophecies relate specifically to America, we can be sure that a. radical jihadists hate us and want us wiped out and b. they are now either close to or already in possession of the weapons to make it happen.

So if American cannot be fixed and if we are facing the increasing likelihood of a serious attack, maybe South America isn't looking so bad after all.


----------



## Slippy

I really enjoyed reading this thread and the extremely insightful posts. As much as I like to poke some fun, share in a laugh, chastise a troll, as well as chime in with serious suggestions about earthly preparations, I believe that being prepared is only complete with Jesus Christ. I sincerely thank you all for your insight and sharing your passion.


----------



## MrsInor

What Slippy said.


----------



## dwight55

Quite honestly, . . . I just never thought about bugging out to South America, . . . Australia, . . . or the like.

I guess if I ever did pull up stakes for another country, . . . it would have to be Israel.

I'm an old geezer, . . . ain't got much sense sometimes, . . . but always figured it would have to be some kind of a time, . . . being there when it all comes to pass, . . . 

Guess you could say that I just want to see the before, . . . I know I'll see the after (New Jerusalem comin' down).

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## inceptor

I did consider that once myself Dwight.


----------



## inceptor

Indie, here is something else to consider. This can be found in the library of congress also.

George Washington's Vision of America's 3 WARS


----------



## Denton

While we are looking at America at the end, and considering Russia and China, please read this and consider it in relation to these things.

The Russo-Chinese Pincer Movement Against The US Treasury and The FED | Video Rebel's Blog


----------



## indie

Thanks for both of those links. Happy and sad, all in one sitting. That's an amazing vision. Very Biblical. So much amazing history out there to discover and so little time. 

As for China and Russia, I totally believe it. I half jokingly asked my mother in law which language she thought we should be learning, Russian or Chinese. She votes Chinese. I tell you, more and more I'm thinking Spanish. Maybe all that Dora will be good for the kids.

I have no brain left for writing tonight but will try to come back tomorrow. Lots to study in this thread. Thanks, guys!


----------



## Inor

inceptor said:


> Indie, here is something else to consider. This can be found in the library of congress also.
> 
> George Washington's Vision of America's 3 WARS


It is strange, I got that very poem in an e-mail from a friend a couple days ago. I finally got a chance to read it this afternoon. While I was reading, I could not help but think that the Founders were not just simple farmers. They were the rich and powerful in the Colonies at the time. John Hancock was the richest man in North America at the time he signed the Declaration. It is unlikely the Revolution would have even gotten off the ground if they had not invested the personal fortunes in it. Today, the richest men in North America, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, George Soros, etc. have invested their fortunes in...

Sorry for the downer.


----------

