# Edison Batteries....



## quinnbrian (Mar 6, 2014)

Has anyone tried to make an Edison battery....not just a play toy, but a real one, with enough power to uses off grid? I've looked at the store bought ones...and well my bank account isn't BIG enough. @ $15,000.00-$20,000 for 500amp hours bank, it's ...well what it is. But with a 30 + year life span, very appealing.
Any thoughts?
Cheers
Brian
My batteries are about 6 years old, and have be pushed very,very hard!! So I'm going to need some new one soon.

Here is a link I've been looking at: Edison Nickel Iron Battery NiFe Builder's Page


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

https://www.walmart.com/ip/35AH-12V...8493&wl11=online&wl12=188458325&wl13=&veh=sem

The above would be about $75 and is 35 amps not the 500 you want. But for $20k you could probably afford to buy all of these you need its just that have a shorter lift span. Still with $20k you could probably buy all you needed of these with just the interest each year.

The link was intriguing though.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

the home low voltage system has ten of the Duracell 105AH AGM batteries... at under $200 each (including core charge), that's under two grand for 1050 AH. In service for a little over four years and the entire system is load tested monthly... so far they're still good as new.

We have a bank of these at the retirement property as well, with solar panels and the ability to charge from the truck's 200A alternator. Again, solid performers... so far.
Even if we have to replace them every 5 years or so, they're a good value.

https://www.samsclub.com/sams/durac...232&selectedTab=allProducts&_requestid=226403


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## quinnbrian (Mar 6, 2014)

Thanks guys for your response, I'm using L16 batteries right know. I think they'll get me thought the rest of the winter months and probably the summer too. But before I go out and spend more money on lead acid batteries, I was hoping to do a little more research on the Edison batteries. 
The batteries I bought 6 years ago where priced at $2700.00 for 8 of them , now the same batteries are $3700.00...so buying new lead acid batteries is, do-o-able, but was hoping to find out more about Edison design....30 + years life of usable power sounds great, and the fact that, you can run them down to 20% , with not damage, sounds good too.
Cheers
Brian


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Brian, Yep, Edison batteries are expensive but they do last a loooong time. The nail in their coffin is the super high self discharge rate (somewhere around 2% a day if memory serves), the super low efficacy at storing the energy put in them (around 65%) (LA batteries are around 90%) and the fact they require a lot more water than LA batteries.

Not sure about making your own but if you do you may need a few more panels to make up for their low energy capture efficiency.

LA batteries are still generally considered the most cost effective choice. In a few years the lithiums may become a reasonable alternative but not yet.


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## quinnbrian (Mar 6, 2014)

John Galt said:


> Brian, Yep, Edison batteries are expensive but they do last a loooong time. The nail in their coffin is the super high self discharge rate (somewhere around 2% a day if memory serves), the super low efficacy at storing the energy put in them (around 65%) (LA batteries are around 90%) and the fact they require a lot more water than LA batteries.
> 
> Not sure about making your own but if you do you may need a few more panels to make up for their low energy capture efficiency.
> 
> LA batteries are still generally considered the most cost effective choice. In a few years the lithiums may become a reasonable alternative but not yet.


I didn't know about the storage difference...65% to 90%...big difference. And haven't found anything on the net about it....I guess they only print what they want you to read.  But would the ability to run them down more..as low as 20% , off set the difference...Maybe....The 2% lost a day , is...OK.., the solar should keep up to it , I have 5200 watt available, but I'm only using half that right now.I have 8 panel in storage, and could put them up, just didn't need them as of yet. 
At this point it all about the research, thanks for the help/input.
Cheers
Brian


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Yea, I'm surprised it's that inefficient too. I ran across that fact while confirming the self discharge rate before I made the previous post and at 60% it seemed high to me so I put 65% in my post. While I no longer can find that webpage looking around this morning I ran across this "The NiFe battery has an efficiency of around 80%." on this site IRONCORE BATTERIES - Why buy Nickel Iron Batteries
That's still about 10% less efficient at storing energy than LA batteries.

I also ran across this like on how to make Iron Edison Batteries. Edison Batteries - Page 3 - DIY Electric Car Forums It seems you need a lot of Nichol which is an expensive metal. @guinnbrian


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## quinnbrian (Mar 6, 2014)

Thanks for the new links John. 80% does seem a little better. The overall cost of building would be a lot higher, but maybe...it would pay off in the long run...maybe...
Did you check out the link I posted at the top? The guy goes though where to get all the supplies , it "looks" good on paper. LOL But if it was that easy..everyone would have Edison batteries...not LA.
I have to wait until warmer weather...still -12....mother nature is on the rag!!
It might make a good how to posting.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

interesting video but, it said cells charge at 1.85 times their final voltage so most charge controllers may have troubles charging the battery. Something to look into. 

Looked up factory spec sheet. 
Nominal Voltage 1.2 Volts (per cell) Charging Voltage 1.65 Volts (per cell) 

So it looks like the charge controller will need to put out 66v to handle a 40 cell "48"v battery. In the custom battery section my Conext 80-600 controller only goes up to 64v in absorb when set for a 48v bank. Different controllers may be able to handle higher voltage.

I'm just glad the days are getting longer. It's only in the last few 2 weeks that I'm seeing a decent float time and SGs are getting where I want them (1.268+).


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## quinnbrian (Mar 6, 2014)

Good point, John, I'll have to take a look at my Magnum inverter (model 4448) to see if I can set that high.


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## quinnbrian (Mar 6, 2014)

Just looked it up , and I'm good to go, max volts input , on my inverter is 68VDC, so I would have a little wiggle room. things are looking up.


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## Orphwitz (Sep 4, 2017)

Very cool! I was not familiar with NiFe batteries this morning! I am allured by the promise of an 85 year shelf-life. That would make storage of a lifetime's worth of batteries feasible.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Orphwitz said:


> Very cool! I was not familiar with NiFe batteries this morning! I am allured by the promise of an 85 year shelf-life. That would make storage of a lifetime's worth of batteries feasible.


Very expensive and maintance intensive.


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## Orphwitz (Sep 4, 2017)

If Edison's website is correct regarding the electrolyte cycling schedule; that burdens these systems a level of maintenance comparably difficult to replacing whole battery banks in the same amount of time. Furthermore; fewer replacements would be better environmentally as it reduces wasted product. 
Ultimately; I'm prepared to pay more for a system with a greater expected lifespan, an objective I feel will make my system more resilient in the face of a prolonged grid-down scenario. I also place a premium value on responsibly/sustainably produced system components as well as American-made, of course.


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## quinnbrian (Mar 6, 2014)

Orphwitz said:


> If Edison's website is correct regarding the electrolyte cycling schedule; that burdens these systems a level of maintenance comparably difficult to replacing whole battery banks in the same amount of time. Furthermore; fewer replacements would be better environmentally as it reduces wasted product.
> Ultimately; I'm prepared to pay more for a system with a greater expected lifespan, an objective I feel will make my system more resilient in the face of a prolonged grid-down scenario. I also place a premium value on responsibly/sustainably produced system components as well as American-made, of course.


One reason I was interested in these batteries, was as a home built unit/project...the material is easy to come by, and the info, on how to build is out there too.
My batteries , died about 3 months ago and I replaced them with Lead acid...just like I already had....Can I build a lead acid battery? Yes...but it would be easier and less toxic to build a Edison type battery.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Please forgive me here because I am working from memory. I had intrest in Edison batteries for my solar set up. I did as much research as I could and came upon an article that stated the following. The Edison batteries available today are made in China and imported into the USA by one company. The USA importer has made some pretty fantastic claims for his battery life and performance. The author of the article went to the chinese manufacturer of the batteries and compared the the manufacturers specs to the importers claimed specs. The importer is basically full of s--t. His claims are wildly different. Combine that with the high initial cost of the batteries and the very high shipping costs, I concluded that Edison batteries were not a good investment for me. Your milage may vary.


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## Orphwitz (Sep 4, 2017)

Alas; I am disappoint. The Capitalist in me is curious as to whether that importer's stranglehold could be viably broken, the White Knight in me concurs in order to cease such (allegedly) bold and dishonest statements. Thoughts for another thread, perhaps. 
I suppose I must resign myself to a lead-acid battery bank, at least until large lithium packs, hydrogen electrolysis, or (probably my favorite) flywheels become become more readily available.
If I may take a moment to elaborate on my concerns; picture a prolonged grid-down scenario, this would have to be some global-scale catastrophe. One mindful prepper has a fully functioning power system with a generous battery bank. My concern arises when these batteries meet the end of service life and disposal must be considered (never mind the absence of power storage.) Where does one dump them? How could one dispose of such hazardous materials safely? This calls for anticipation not just of personal safety but also the safety of one's curtilage upon which one would rely for sustenance.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

I love the idea of a fairly efficient battery that lasts 30 years but..... Years of occasional research and I'm still using Lead acid batteries to power my home. 
We have more efficient (maintance and money) choices than Edison batteries (NiFe) now.

Panels have gotten much cheaper the last few years but you'd better plan on 20-30% more panels, racks, and controllers if you want to use inefficient NiFe batteries.... not to mention twice the watering and occasional pain in the butt electrolyte changes. Plus they are super heavy to play with when comparing weight to energy density. My home's LA batteries weigh 121 lbs each (I have 16 batteries) but a similarly rated capacity NiFe battery weighs about 200 lbs.... more weight than I can lift up and over into my battery box. Lithium's weigh much less but require BMS (another potential failure point) and are inherently prone to bursting into fire.

On the solar power forums, the guys who actually live depending on their batteries for years (like me), most still use FLA (Lead Acid) batteries, or if they're super wealthy they may go for the lower maintance AGMs along with a few who dabble in the new lithium batteries. It's very rare to find a serious RE user who shells out the cash for NiFe batteries.

My "curtilage" would be safe with FLA batteries because I would just set them close to where the local Bernie Sanders supporter lives.

P.S. Please use words us simple folk speak, no lawyers here. @Orphwitz


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## Orphwitz (Sep 4, 2017)

Just for you John, I will dial down the legal speak. 
That's not a half-bad disposal idea, considering the most libtarded of my fellow Americans is ill-equipped to deter you!


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