# Bunker Mentality Challenge



## Humbucker99 (Aug 22, 2019)

I recently began a long procrastinated project on my property and am hoping for some good advice here. 

My home is at the edge of a subdivision where my old neighborhood meets a newly constructed neighborhood. I have a sizable backyard where I have a large barn-looking shed, a nice garden, enough space for the dog to stretch his legs, and an antenna 'farm' for my communications desk and ham radio station. I also have something leftover from the 'old days' and built by a previous owner that I have big plans for - an underground storm shelter. I believe it was built as a bomb shelter in the 1940s, but has underwent various remodels and renovations over the last few decades.


The entrance is via 2 large metal doors that slant up from ground level to about 10-inches on either end. Wood steps down to what has been a bomb bunker, storm/tornado shelter, root cellar, and garden shed storage pantry used by several different residents for several different reasons. It goes down 8-ft to a spacious underground room with cement floor, perfectly square 12X12 ft area with red brick walls and permanent black wrought iron shelves (which held 50-y/o mason jars of apricots and peaches and other unidentified fruits which had turned to a brown disgusting liquid) It has become the home to various varmints such as possums, raccoons, squirrels, and field mice over the years (not to mention spiders). I have gutted and cleaned out the space using Industrial 409, Clorox bleach, Brillo pads, a pressure-washer and sump pump. It was nice and clean and ready for what I had in mind - BUT - I have noticed that the room floods every time it rains. Bad. The area around the double doors is not air tight or secure, and rainwater just dribbles constant. This, of course, leaves a mud slime on the floor when the water recedes and I have to pressure wash it all over again. A friend suggested I sand bag the entrance, but that would leave the doors compromised and easily seen when what I want is camouflaged and subtle. What to do? 


Like I said, I have big plans for this old root cellar. First and foremost, an emergency underground shelter. Food and water storage for 90+ days. There is more than enough room for a double bunkbed, a desk and communications nook, a card table and chairs, and ample storage for staples, guns and ammo, extra clothing, cooking utensils (the card table against one wall would double as a kitchen/breakfast nook) possibly a small wood-burning stove. I have cleared the shelves and replaced the rotted fruit jars with the above mentioned items, but after a hard rain I moved everything back to the garage/shed until I figure out how to deal with the flooding dilemma and all that it creates - filth, bacteria, and very possibly mold. I bought some sandbags to fill up and shore up the entrance, and I also patched some cracks and fissures in the walls and floor using Quickrete. It rained the other day, in the morning, and sure enough there was about 2 inches of water on the floor. I discovered only two drainage vents in the bunker, no idea of just what kind of drainage the owner concocted (pipe out/dry well?) but it is VERY slow to drain and dry, approx. 3 days. I need to conquer this challenge before I can really motivate and move things in. 


Any and all suggestions and advice is much appreciated. Thanks y'all.


73s


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

*HumBucker:*

I know this may sound stupid but there are questions that need to be answered first, such as "What are you trying to accomplish?"

Lets begin by taking the *living in the shelter* out of the equation at this time. 
1. General area you live in (lots of snow?). 
2. Family size.
3. Ages and health.
4. Extended family that may join you?
5. Are you prepared now?
6. Proximity of neighbors?
7. Can the shelter be totally concealed?
8. Type of house construction?


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## Humbucker99 (Aug 22, 2019)

Trying to accomplish? A temporary shelter (for up to 90 days) in the event of any disaster

Yes, Ohio winters
Just my wife and I
60s fair health
No extended family in Ohio
Yes, as far as supplies, we are 'ready'
Close proximity - 50 yds away but backyard foliage and privacy fence
Yes, it can be totally concealed with some outside work
House? Underground shelter is at least 25 yds from rear of house. House is traditional wood frame w/basement


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

More Questions:

If you use the space for *supply caching only*, can the entrance be camouflaged in some way? (IE. stack leaves over it, an old rabbit hutch, fake dirt mound, etc.)

*If you stay in it, *can you camouflage the opening in some way so you can enter and leave? Cut a new hidden entrance?


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

*Sewage*

This is easily manageable. $10 2nd hand adult potty chair with 5 gallon bucket. It will take you two weeks to fill up one bucket. Cover with lid and use second bucket. Then go outside and dump it.
*There is no odor!* See: http://www.prepperlink.com/index.php/forum/159-general-discussions/28805-systematic-approach-to-group-survival?limit=10&start=50


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

I am a Southern boy with no experience with snow. Can you always get out if it snows? Just asking. If not this may be a deal breaker for you during *winter months only*.

If the shelter is not available to you for the 3 months consider hiding most supplies there and wearing oversized shirts if intruders come knocking.

*
If we assume you will live in the bunker, what are the three biggest problems you need help with?*


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

If all the water is entering thru and around the entrance doors....... simple. Just replace the doors or rebuild the entrance.
If the water is entering thru cracks in the walls or floor, you may have to install a sump pump and possibly a raised floor.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Install a cheap home depot storage shed, over the doors?
As for the drainage issue, see if you can snake out the original drains? 
Good luck, keep us posted.


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

If you stay there in the wintertime, consider sleeping during the day in a warm sleeping bag. Stay awake at night so you can use your fireplace without being seen.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

How certain are you that the flooding is caused by water leaking around/through the doors? 

Is it possible it’s coming down the walls from outside? 

Is it possible that it’s caused by groundwater from below, rising through or around the floor during a storm event? Groundwater can fluctuate wildly in some areas during and after a storm. 

Besides using weather stripping to seal the doors completely, my immediate advice would be to make sure that the ground surface on top of and around your shelter slopes downward, away from your building in all directions so that water can’t pool in that area and percolate through the soils and into your bunker. The ground needs to fall at least six inches vertically for every ten feet horizontally away from your structure. This is critical for sub-grade buildings.

If you think it might be groundwater, that would different animal altogether. Is your property flat? If your property isn’t flat, you could conceivably install a perimeter foundation drain that gravity fed to a lower area on your lot. If it is flat, your probably talking about installing a foundation drain system that drains to a sump that you would have to pump during times of heavy precipitation. 

I did a lot of groundwater and drainage assessments early in my career. I’d be interested to see some photo’s of the structure, but I know most people here have no interest in sharing that kind of thing with Ann internet stranger. I wouldn’t blame you if you didn’t.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

A cutout circle in the floor and a large 5 gallon bucket stuck down in it to floor level makes a sump pump well, . . . and a mechanical pump to pump out the water, . . . problem more or less solved.

At least that is what I would do.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Where is ground water level in area?

Seal it up and run the drains to a dry well if possible. Have a valve for the drains if you have flooding. The idea of a a hand pump/sump is great. Fix and seal any faults in walls/floors

I'd build a "wood shed" over the bunker. Then you'd be set with wood if you put in a stove.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Humbucker99 said:


> I recently began a long procrastinated project on my property and am hoping for some good advice here.
> 
> My home is at the edge of a subdivision where my old neighborhood meets a newly constructed neighborhood. I have a sizable backyard where I have a large barn-looking shed, a nice garden, enough space for the dog to stretch his legs, and an antenna 'farm' for my communications desk and ham radio station. I also have something leftover from the 'old days' and built by a previous owner that I have big plans for - an underground storm shelter. I believe it was built as a bomb shelter in the 1940s, but has underwent various remodels and renovations over the last few decades.
> 
> ...


I feel your pain my friend! Leaks about kicked out ass during construction but a little FlexSeal here, a little caulk there and we managed to stop those pesky leaks!







It was a real bitch but we managed to shore up the doors nicely too! :vs_smile:







Wouldn't want the bunker wine cellar getting musty now would we? :vs_lol:


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## Humbucker99 (Aug 22, 2019)

Thanks much for the replies, folks! Lots of good sage advice here, and I am grateful. Yes, I believe the bulk of the flooding is thru the main doors, which I am considering a total rebuild. Love the doors on your bunker, Slippy! Now that is what I call 'heavy duty'. 

I have a good sump pump system, crankable and also able to run off generator. I have a CAT P1200. Also really like the idea of putting up a shed around the entrance - great idea! I just finished paying for one barn/shed and have more than enough room for another. I really like this idea. 

Also, thanks for the advice on snaking the drains. This was also something I've already got on the to-do list. 

My property is flat, and I have no idea of the water table depth. Something I need to look into. The last 3 winters we have not had a lot of snow. Just a couple that were 3-4 inches if that. The real danger would be c-c-cold. We hit sub-zero a few times last year. 


I am really liking the idea of a camo shed over the main entrance, affixing firewood to the doors and stacking it around to look (and act) as a wood shed. Fantastic idea. 


Great ideas and advice here, thanks much!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

If you decide to build a shed might want insulate the bunker doors. A few bales of hay would work great and not attract attention, easier to move than wood. Below grade it won't get too cold or take much to heat. You could put a stove in the shed so you'd have a chimney, and have a cut off for a stove below. Make sure you have a C02 detector if you put a stove in, and a means to draw in fresh air. 

Mice love woodsheds so keep them in check too.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> If you decide to build a shed might want insulate the bunker doors. A few bales of hay would work great and not attract attention, easier to move than wood. Below grade it won't get too cold or take much to heat. You could put a stove in the shed so you'd have a chimney, and have a cut off for a stove below. Make sure you have a C02 detector if you put a stove in, and a means to draw in fresh air.
> 
> *Mice love woodsheds so keep them in check too.*


Buy yourself a half dozen bars of Irish Spring hand soap, . . . cut them into quarters, . . . spread around the wood shed, . . . mice will vacate the place pronto.

Did that late last summer, . . . been over a year since the little humbuggers were in my shed/shop. Don't work for squirrels, . . . but is great for mice.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> Buy yourself a half dozen bars of Irish Spring hand soap, . . . cut them into quarters, . . . spread around the wood shed, . . . mice will vacate the place pronto.
> 
> Did that late last summer, . . . been over a year since the little humbuggers were in my shed/shop. Don't work for squirrels, . . . but is great for mice.
> 
> ...


Dwight, I'll try the soap.

I set up 5-gal pail traps, with spinning bottles baited with peanut butter. Each barn gets two. Mice never get the peanut butter, they fall in and drown, then you just change the water. Don't forget to check them and change the water. I've caught 10 mice in a couple of days, and if you forget to dump the water, the mice start to ferment..........


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## Humbucker99 (Aug 22, 2019)

Yes, great advice on the mouse trap! They are probably the worst inhabitants at this time. I put out traditional spring traps and killed four last night. I also bait w/peanut butter. But I like your idea better with the water in the bucket, you don't have to handle them. I also like the idea of hay bales on the doors, nice touch. A friend said he could cut sheet metal doors for me that overlap and would be a flush fit, then I could pack sandbags in the recessed area around the hinges to stop the leaks. See how that goes. He is supposed to call me Sat per a price on the metal and I will go from there and try this approach.

I built my own drywell with a 55-gallon drum buried with smooth river stones in it and a screen door filter for the gutter spout run off around the house that I am not catching w/rain barrels (one on each end of house). Also borrowing a snake from the same friend making the doors to route out those drainage vents in the floor.


It is a project, for sure, and I am hoping to be finished with it before winter sets in. Just had a cord of wood delivered and stacked so we are ready in that dept. Now it is just a race with Old Man Winter.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Peanut butter works great as bait, but I REALLY like tootsie rolls, for my traps, I haven't used the roller on a bucket method.
Soften up the tootsie roll and squeeze it onto the trap trigger, the mice will pull on it, versus PB, which works.. I have caught several mice on the same bait, just hold the trap over trash can, dispose of vermin, reset trap.
I do need some Irish Spring soap for my camper, and under the crawlspace at home.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Deebo said:


> Peanut butter works great as bait, but I REALLY like tootsie rolls, for my traps, I haven't used the roller on a bucket method.
> Soften up the tootsie roll and squeeze it onto the trap trigger, the mice will pull on it, versus PB, which works.. I have caught several mice on the same bait, just hold the trap over trash can, dispose of vermin, reset trap.
> I do need some Irish Spring soap for my camper, and under the crawlspace at home.


I'll try the tootsie rolls.

Another thing that works great is scrap grisle from a steak. I wire it to mouse trap trigger with bread loaf twist tie.

The peanut butter is great for the spinning bottle. Just smear some on a few different spots. It gets moldy before the mice get it.

Squirrels can steal the peanut butter, then you need to up size trap to ~15-gal bucket/barrel.

A friend cleaned out a racoon infestation with even bigger setup, 55-gal drum and a paint can spinner.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Humbucker99 said:


> I recently began a long procrastinated project on my property and am hoping for some good advice here.
> 
> My home is at the edge of a subdivision where my old neighborhood meets a newly constructed neighborhood. I have a sizable backyard where I have a large barn-looking shed, a nice garden, enough space for the dog to stretch his legs, and an antenna 'farm' for my communications desk and ham radio station. I also have something leftover from the 'old days' and built by a previous owner that I have big plans for - an underground storm shelter. I believe it was built as a bomb shelter in the 1940s, but has underwent various remodels and renovations over the last few decades.
> 
> ...


Sounds like some weather stripping/proofing around the doors would be a possiblity. Or even an above ground shell to just block the rain. Also a sump pump like yankees use in their basements might be needed. Are we sure their is no infiltration of water though the walls? That can be a challenge for underground structures..or so said the old builder pal who built a few earth sheltered builrt into hills houses. Not sure how to fix that...but if its just coming trough the doors it should be pretty easy. I would ask Slippy if I was you. Hes a very smart feller.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Sounds like some weather stripping/proofing around the doors would be a possiblity. Or even an above ground shell to just block the rain. Also a sump pump like yankees use in their basements might be needed. Are we sure their is no infiltration of water though the walls? That can be a challenge for underground structures..or so said the old builder pal who built a few earth sheltered builrt into hills houses. Not sure how to fix that...but if its just coming trough the doors it should be pretty easy. I would ask Slippy if I was you. Hes a very smart feller.


Fart smeller? @Slippy?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Some folks can slur their words on that. Good point.


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