# Off-Grid Solar



## Wolf_Pack (6 mo ago)

Hello all - 

This forum and community is awesome, and I am so glad I found it. I began prepper (preparing) a couple of years ago, and I am at the point that I need to deal with electric. I am rural with lots of space. Furthermore, I am not electronically incline, so I am wondering if there are off-grid kits that are recommended based on your experience. I have seen the Goal Zero and Jackery products, but I am looking for something more substantial. It seems like there are companies and products popping up left and right, and it leaves the novice, spinning. 

Is it best to have a system that powers your whole house and extra is “sold” back to the electric company… or is it best to push for an entire off-grid system and only using the grid for back up.

Anyway, I am learning little by little, but hoped for some guidance and insight as I continue to search and read throughout this forum.

Thanks!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Firstly, welcome!

Solar options have really expanded over the last ten years. There are all kinds of pre-assembled kits and DIY custom packages available.
The first thing you have to determine is need. How much power(watts) do you require to run the devices/appliances you want to support for the length of time you want to run them?
Your best option for determining this is with a device called a "Kill-a-watt". You plug a device into it, and it will tell you how many watts that device requires to run. Do this to everything, and add up the total.
That's your minimum wattage per hour required, but you'll want to increase that amount by about 20-50% to account for surges. If you're running anything with a compressor, they can require a tremendous amount of power at start-up. It's only for a short burst, but it can be 200% or more of normal running wattage.
Figure out how many hours in the day you'll need to support that load. Lots of things won't need to be on continuously.
Then figure out how many days you'd like to be able to run that amount of stuff.
(Watts per hour) x (hours per day) x (buffer of 20 to 50%) x (days) = (bare minimum power output)
Now you know how much power your battery bank will need to be able to support per hour, and how large of a bank to build to sustain that power for the predetermined length of time.
Your next step is building a solar array that can charge that battery bank consistently, even in less than ideal conditions. This will mean one or both of two things.
1. A larger battery bank for those times when charging is less than optimal
2. A larger solar array to compensate for times when conditions are less than optimal

If you haven't noticed by now, this is not a cheap endeavor.

Then you still need all the cabling, charge controller(s), hardware, and DC to AC inverter.

You'll want to determine what charge voltage you want to run, as there are advantages and disadvantages to running 12, 18, 24, and even 48 volt systems. This will determine the cabling and supporting electronics you'll need to get.

With all that sorted, if you're not comfortable doing it, hire a professional installer for the panels and a licensed electrician to hook it up. They will know how to keep the system grounded and safe from dangerous backflow to the main grid if you choose to tie in.

You're looking at quite the project if you plan to support a lot. Most folks just try to cover the bare essentials for a limited time. Fridge, lights, charging station, etc, for 3-5 days.

Good luck!


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Be wary of grid-tied systems. In many cases, if the grid goes down, you cannot use your high$ system to power your own home. You might be required to sell _everything _you generate to the utility.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

^^^ Truth!
Most companies offering to install everything for you are setting up that kind of system.
You can't run anything from your panels if the grid goes down in this type of setup.


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## Wolf_Pack (6 mo ago)

Thanks so much for your reply and information, Kauboy! You are very correct… it can get very costly and be quite a project. Looking at my historic electric usage, it appears we use around 60 kWh per day which is a lot, but I have 3 teen kids with PCs, etc. and have a lot of none essential electronics that would not be needed. I understand that in a SHTF situation, I would be using the bare essentials (lights, laptop, my satellite internet [if available], charging phones, radio, and communications). I would also need to manage my usage throughout the day/week, depending on solar charging. Not only that, but I am working on calculating the exact load that I would require during a “grid-down” (essentials only) situation.

Any thoughts on reputable companies to begin researching and pricing? Seems to be so many out there. Open to anyone's experience with getting started.

Again, thanks so much. It's great to see a place with so many like-minded people. We all know what's down the road!


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## Wolf_Pack (6 mo ago)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Be wary of grid-tied systems. In many cases, if the grid goes down, you cannot use your high$ system to power your own home. You might be required to sell _everything _you generate to the utility.


I have read about that! It's probably also good that they don't necessarily know I even have it. Thanks for the tip!


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## 0rocky (Jan 7, 2018)

Hi there @Wolf_Pack;. I would suggest you run a search within this forum on the topic. There have been many past discussions that I think have most of the answers you seek. I’ve been living off-grid for some years now and the folks here have a wealth of knowledge.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Whatever calculations you run, be sure to add 50% to that result. If you find you need x watts of solar and y amphours of batteries, multiply those numbers by 1.5 and get that sized system. "Running the numbers" is all theory, and there are losses in the system the process doesn't account for. Upping the setup for more capacity makes that allowance so you don't end up with a sub-par system.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

When I bought my house four years ago, I went to the local power company to sign up for service. In the small print was a statement that said I will purchase electricity ONLY from them. No big deal, I thought, it's the only provider in town. Until I started to consider adding solar. Had a solar company come out and give a bid, well over $20,000, for a grid-tied system. It was explained that the reason the solar system shuts down during a power outage is because if your solar system is producing power, it will backfeed into the grid system and anybody working on the system, thinking it is down at that time, will receive electric shock. That is what I was told. I then spoke to the solar expert at the power company. He informed me that I could set up a "hybrid" system, which adds a battery bank. When the grid goes down, a solenoid (?) in the system automatically disconnects your solar from the grid (happens in an instant) so there will be no backfeed into their lines. As soon as the power returns from the grid, it switches back. So, with the contract I signed, I am forced to be tied to the grid one way or another. The only way to be truly and legally independent, is to never be connected to their system in the first place.

I have a good friend who built a small house (450+/- sf). She never had the power company place a drop on her property. She and I (two old ladies) installed the panels on a ground-based frame. We have seen panels on roofs and my first thought is how difficult it would be get up there and clean those panels, especially in winter with snow and ice. She bought her system from an internet company. Told them what appliances, etc., she would be running and they calculated for and shipped her the entire package. The trick was finding an electrician who would install it. The solar companies that sell systems to install for you will not install a system you purchased elsewhere. Out of twelve electricians, only one said he would do it. He had never worked on solar before. The company from which she purchased it has a good tech support line and the local code inspector agreed to provide info and advice if needed. She also has a dual fueled generator that is connected to her breaker panel. She has had to use it occasionally to charge the batteries when weather hasn't cooperated. So far, so good (two years).

California is now facing the problem of what to do with the aged-out solar panels needing replacement. There is no system currently in place to recycle/reclaim the minerals in the panels. I suppose nobody thought of that when they started subsidizing solar systems 15 years or so ago. Solar systems are actually worse for the environment in the long run that fossil fuels. As for the batteries, well, nobody has come up with an answer to that. It's a conundrum.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

ItsJustMe said:


> ......... When the grid goes down, a solenoid (?) in the system automatically disconnects your solar from the grid (happens in an instant) ........


Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS).


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

^^^That's It!! Thank you.


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## Wolf_Pack (6 mo ago)

Great information, everyone, and I thank you for the time you put into your replies. I am definitely reading as much as I can on this forum as well as other resources I can get access to, on solar.


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## KellyDude (11 mo ago)

Yes - the whole 'grid-tie' thing blew my mind when I found out you have no power in an outage - my Primary Reason for considering solar!!! 

I did my own combination of Jackery, Ecoflow and home-built system and have done real-world testing on them.

I decided I can do without washer/dryer, microwave etc in an outage and that greatly reduces need for a monstrous system. I suggest you do the same since most outages are brief and we can live without some machines for awhile.

If you want full backup/alternate power, it'll be tens of thousand$.

Take your time deciding!


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## 0rocky (Jan 7, 2018)

ItsJustMe said:


> When I bought my house four years ago, I went to the local power company to sign up for service. In the small print was a statement that said I will purchase electricity ONLY from them.


 Full disclosure, I’m no legal expert, having said that, if you install your own ‘Solar’ I don’t see how that can be construed as buying power elsewhere. After the addition of an Auto Transfer Switch, the utility workers will be safe and all ’should’ be well. Just a thought.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

KellyDude said:


> Yes - the whole 'grid-tie' thing blew my mind when I found out you have no power in an outage - my Primary Reason for considering solar!!! .........


That's why I built my own system.... so I'd have total control over the electromotive force I produced.


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## Wolf_Pack (6 mo ago)

Definitely not looking for a system that will produce full home generation. Like you have said, and I have seen, I would be paying tens of thousands for that. Just looking for a system I can generate enough power to operate lighting, TV/radio and recharging of phones/powering of communications (including internet). In an emergency or shtf situation, I can wash clothes by hand, I can heat by wood, I can cook outside. Like some have said, the hard part is finding an electrician to hook it all up, as well as deciding about the brands of products. I have found the Backwoods Solar site quite helpful. Still researching.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

@Wolf_Pack 

Solar is nice to have, and it's is a nice goal to be totally self sufficient. Unfortunately Solar power generation is costly and inefficient. You'll need a back up.

My first suggestion is to have a reliable dual fuel generator and a Transfer Switch to enable you to run parts of your house during an emergency grid down situation. 

You can then begin adding solar panels, batteries and inverter. Keep in mind that your generator can then be used to supplement the Sun's power and charge the batteries when needed.

Grid Tie systems are for chumps and green power wannabe fools. Don't be that. Good luck.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Slippy said:


> ....You can then begin adding.. batteries ...


You also will have to replace batteries after time.


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