# How does one prepare for this as a fighter?



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

*This thread is part of the "Coming Civil War" group of threads.
Please see the Primer/Premise thread --> HERE <-- for context and links to other related topics.*

You've seen the writing on the wall. You know what is coming. You've decided you will not be an observer. You will fight for your country, and are willing to not only die, but kill, to save it.
How do you prepare to engage the enemy? How do you coordinate with others who are rallying to do the same thing? What equipment do you need? What rations should you take? You have no idea what supply lines look like for your chosen area of combat.

This topic is going to rely *HEAVILY* on those within our community who have "been there, done that".
I can make for a convincing keyboard commando, but this isn't the time or the place. No chest puffing, no boasting, no one-ups-manship. This isn't a contest to see who's more "elite". This is a time to learn.

*This is a time for pups like me to sit down, SHUT THE HELL UP, and pay attention like my life depends on it... because it may.*

We have some "old salts" on here that know their shit. They know what works, and they know what doesn't. That's who needs to drive this topic.
I can try to define some parameters, but I could end up talking out of my ass, and this is NOT the place I want half-cocked advice to be given.

The best way I can frame this question would be, "what would a modern day minuteman need before heading out to fight?"

What gear?
What sustenance?
What mindset?
What forethought?
What needs to be taken care of before leaving one's family?
What else?


----------



## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I think that the answers lies heavily where each of us see our selves. I am not a strategist...I cannot think in terms of geo-political futures. I am a tactician...I know how to wage war and win battles....

I also do have knowledge on subversive techniques...but that goes against open political strategies and plays to subversive ideologies. Think about Nassir who had his tactical staff executed so that he would later not be overthrown.

Thats me....I can make rebellions...I can form subversive groups....I am not fit to lead..because I have to become evil to beget evil...and because I think like I do....but I do not trust anyone who would use my expertise...cause they would most likely kill me later......


kind of sucks to be me....


this is where I believe in a civilian control over military application


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Old SF Guy said:


> I think that the answers lies heavily where each of us see our selves. I am not a strategist...I cannot think in terms of geo-political futures. I am a tactician...I know how to wage war and win battles....
> 
> I also do have knowledge on subversive techniques...but that goes against open political strategies and plays to subversive ideologies. Think about Nassir who had his tactical staff executed so that he would later not be overthrown.
> 
> ...


You, good sir, will be invaluable in an upcoming topic.
"Tactics" is in progress, and on its way.


----------



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

I’m to old to fight..maybe.. unless push comes to shove. 

But, my background, protection of critical assets both physical and electronic, gives me a somewhat unique insight into the opposite of that protection.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Training is how you prepare. But what do you train? Only so many hours in a day. Infantry faces this all of the time. First thing they do is break down simple skill level 1 task and ask are we trained or not. If yes move on if not decide the most important compared to what you expect to face and train. Then move on. Many skills cross over from defend to assault. You train the ones with the most pay back first. The list of task are long from basic rifle skills to combat life saver skills. You just keep checking the boxes. When you think you really good at it you change the conditions. Do it at night in the rain in the cold or heat. Not as hard as you think. 
Hood rat liberals are in for a shock.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Ok, not much traction on this topic, so I'll see if I can stoke any additional responses. Again, my wish is to avoid bad advice in this thread, so if I say anything out of line with professional understanding, I *want* it stomped on and corrections given, preferably with references to training manuals or similar literature. Real-world experience is even more valuable.

As I asked in the opening post, "What would a modern day minuteman need before heading out to fight?" To me, this is the appropriate characterization of a person who wishes to engage in the fight until someone else steps up to handle it better.
Minutemen were part of the militia that could be called up at a moment's notice. Literally ready within minutes to join their local company. They kept gear at the ready that could be grabbed on the way out the door.
It seems obvious to me that this should be the design to follow if a civilian force wanted to be ready to withstand or repel an attack with little warning. A violent riot coming your way, or the next town over being overrun and needing backup.
Your likely area of operation will not be too far from home unless you plan to trek to another state.

What should the modern "freedom fighter" have ready to last a week away from home?

My ideas, in order of personal priority: (feel free to differ)

Body armor
IFAK
A weapon with sufficient ammunition
Suitable clothing for the expected area of operation
Radio and power
Flashlight and batteries
Bed roll
Fire-making tools
Food for a week
Water for a few days, and ways to purify more
Navigation equipment
Fixed blade knife
Trenching tool
Awl and thread, and aircraft tape or similar
Cordage
Signal mirror

*Body armor* - This is my first one because I consider not getting hurt to be more important than stopping the attacker. If you're hurt, your likelihood to stay in the fight and stop the attacker goes down. You're less effective and you can't help others.
This doesn't have to be anything specific. It just needs to be something. You can go as far as level 4 SAPI plates or as simple as plastic motorcycle pads. The point is to deflect or stop incoming damage. It could be blunt force from melee, it could be sharp, it could be a projectile. Whatever you can do to mitigate incoming damage is good. It needs to be functional and able to retain mobility. I recommend one of your IFAKs be attached but removable. A tourniquet or two would be good.
I personally have a level 3 steel plate carrier with extra ammo and an attached fixed blade. It has an IFAK with an included tourniquet.

*IFAK* - If you take damage, and you likely will, you need to be able to stop the bleed or the burn. This kit is for YOU FIRST! You can't help others if you're bleeding out. Feel free to carry a spare throw-able kit to give to or use on others, but your kit is for YOU! Even if you're incap, others can use your kit to help you. It should be equipped to handle the three leading preventable causes of death in the field.
1. serious bleed 2. blocked airway 3. tension pneumothorax
1a. Quick clot, compression bandages, and the like for serious bleeds.
1b. Tourniquets if you have no time or must continue to move. (tourniquets are no longer considered a "last resort")
2. Nasopharyngeal airway devices for opening up the airway of an unconscious person who may relax to the point of blocking their own airflow.
3a. Decompression needle for relieving the build-up of pressure from a sucking chest wound that can collapse a lung and put pressure on the heart
3b. Chest seals to stop additional air from entering a sucking chest wound (two needed, one for entry and one for exit)
Don't forget burn gel. There is a high likelihood for fire to play a big role in riot attacks.

*A weapon with sufficient ammunition* - A reliable weapon. Preferably one that is common among others who will be responding. Same caliber, same magazine, same parts, same function. In the U.S. this is the AR-15. It might not be what you like, but it will be what everyone has. It is unequivocally the most popular rifle in the country with between 10 and 16 million being owned by the civilian population, depending on consulted sources. The military carries the full-auto/burst version, and your local PD carries the civy version.
That isn't to say you can't use your AK, SKS, SCAR, deer rifle, or the old Mauser in the corner. It just means you will have to plan to sustain yourself, and any help from others to replace broken parts, magazines, or ammunition, is not likely.
You should carry a sufficient amount of ammunition for the role you intend to take. I can't tell you how much this is. Just remember that nobody ever survived a gunfight wishing they'd brought less ammo. If I go, I will bring the AR-15 with two mags secured in a mag clamp on the gun, and a Glock 19 sidearm. I carry 6 spare mags for my rifle and 2 for the handgun.
Keep in mind, the weapon you end up fighting with may not be your own. You should know how to run the most common weapons you could find. ARs, AKs, Glocks, 1911s, even revolvers. You have no idea what you might have to rely on when your own choice runs dry or melts down.

*Suitable clothing for the expected area of operation* - This could be as simple as street clothes and shoes, or it could mean thermal pants and a heavy jacket. Expecting sun? Wide-brim hat might be good. Cold nights? A warm toboggan doesn't take up much room. Eye protection should be included. Headwear that can take a hit from a rock would be helpful.
A solid choice for footwear should be given high priority. Comfortable, durable, breathable, supportive.

*Radio and power* - You should have a means of communication, and this will likely fall to HAM or GPRS radios. An extra battery and a means to charge them will be needed. Fold up solar chargers can work if you have the time to charge them. Batteries packs that can run on normal disposable batteries are a good alternative. Baofeng clones can use a pack that is just AA batteries inside.
Being able to coordinate with other teams will be important. A likely use of civilian militia will be as support for local authorities or military. Having a means to communicate without a grid will be necessary.

*Flashlight and batteries* - Duh.

*Bed roll* - Self explanatory. Something to wrap up in. You don't know where you might have to sleep. Plan appropriately for the season. What little sleep you get should be good sleep.

*Fire-making tools* - Lightweight options to get a fire going. Nothing fancy. A "Blastmatch", or even just storm-proof matches are good here. You might be able to cook up something or boil some water. Be able to make fire.

*Food for a week* - Plan to lose some weight. Pack light, but with high calories. Protein bars are good, peanut butter and crackers pack a lot. MREs take up a lot or room. Strip out what you don't need if you want to take some comfort items. You'll rotate home in a week. Eat well then. For now it's trail mix and powdered ramen. Suck it up, buttercup.

*Water for a few days, and ways to purify more* - Less cavalier here. You NEED to stay hydrated. Problem is, water's heavy. Carry enough to make the trip to your AO and seek to resupply there. Filter and purify if you don't trust the source. Lifestraw or Sawyer are lightweight and great options. Purification tabs for your container size should be included. Have a water jug/canteen of some kind at all times. Fill it at every opportunity. STAY HYDRATED!

*Navigation equipment* - Street maps of the AO and all routes to get there, preferably laminated to allow writing on. A compass you know how to use. GPS if you think it will be needed, but it probably won't be. Your situation will dictate. Map markers for plotting routes. If the local authorities want your help, they may send you to a location. You are expected to know how to get there or how to follow their instructions. Study the area.

*Fixed blade knife* - You might need to cut things. Depending on your preference, things might include food, cordage, packaging, clothing, skin, ligaments, muscle tissue, or just pick your teeth. Carry what you feel comfortable with, but carry something. When your weapon runs dry, it might be your only option to get away.

*Trenching tool* - You might have to dig a hole... for reasons...

*Awl and thread, and aircraft tape or similar* - Gear repair should be a regular task. Keep it in working order.

*Cordage* - Paracord or bank line. 1001 uses. Have it.

*Signal mirror* - Precision long-distance signaling without the need for power or making noise. (ya know... as long as the sun cooperates)

Poke all the holes you want, and understand that the above will vary widely for every individual and every environment.
This is just a layman's list after a few years of accumulating knowledge from various professional sources. Mostly online, some in print from government entities...
If you take issue with anything, please at least provide an alternative and why your correction makes more sense. I'm open to being wrong, but the reasoning should be objectively sound.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Ok, not much traction on this topic, so I'll see if I can stoke any additional responses. Again, my wish is to avoid bad advice in this thread, so if I say anything out of line with professional understanding, I *want* it stomped on and corrections given, preferably with references to training manuals or similar literature. Real-world experience is even more valuable.
> 
> As I asked in the opening post, "What would a modern day minuteman need before heading out to fight?" To me, this is the appropriate characterization of a person who wishes to engage in the fight until someone else steps up to handle it better.
> Minutemen were part of the militia that could be called up at a moment's notice. Literally ready within minutes to join their local company. They kept gear at the ready that could be grabbed on the way out the door.
> ...


I am sure our military guys can expand on this but it seems to me, based on all I have read, a good load out @Kauboy.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I mentioned this in the "Tactics to employ" set of threads, and thought it should go here too...

If you plan to enter the fray, have something to put out a fire!
We saw what happened when one Anitfa idiot threw a molotov toward a police line, but inadvertently hit another Anitfa idiot instead.
If you didn't see it, enjoy:







The crowd had no idea what to do. His shoes were on fire, but they kept telling him to drop and roll... lain:
Eventually, the very police they were protesting against, came to the man's rescue and put out the fire.

So, the protesting morons aren't too bright... but they use effective tools.
I'm recommending an addition to the gear of anyone who might face a mob intending to implement these incendiary devices.

Something like this:








It is small enough to fit in a pouch on your chest rig/carrier, or in a backpack or side pouch. It will NOT replace a full blown fire extinguisher for tackling large fires. But it will certainly put out a small fire.
I picked up a 2pk at Lowes for $20 this weekend.
One will stay at home to supplement our other larger extinguisher, and the other will likely go in our vehicle until such a time as it might be needed to serve its country.
:tango_face_wink:


----------



## K7JLJ (Sep 25, 2018)

Good info Kauboy, I would suggest that if you are within molotov range, you are doing it wrong and "drop and roll" will likely come to mind before grabbing a FE.

Wearing body armor while humping is more of a hindrance than supplement IMO. Static or vehicle ops, thumbs up!

If you are not working in your kit on a regular basis you should be. It takes a while to identify all the "hot spots" gear causes and take corrective action. I've been doing this for the past year and know my gear works for me. Fight light is my biggest piece of advice. I'm an old fat 0311, when you are past 50 you learn to live with your limitation, but it doesn't mean you can't be an effective fighter with adjustments to gear and tactics.


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

deleted


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

This makes sense as a fighter, depending on the type of fight you expect to run off and join. The question for me is, how far off do I run to fight? Do I leave the family to wage war 2 states over to avoid it coming to my soil? or do I hunker down here and fight to the death? without defined lines to join what does a guy do? train for leaving? or train to defend your own Alamo?


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> This makes sense as a fighter, depending on the type of fight you expect to run off and join. The question for me is, how far off do I run to fight? Do I leave the family to wage war 2 states over to avoid it coming to my soil? or do I hunker down here and fight to the death? without defined lines to join what does a guy do? train for leaving? or train to defend your own Alamo?


It's a good question!

You're right that there won't be defined lines to advance to and join the "front". In my mind, fighters will primarily be used locally. You might join up with a group that's looking to push an encroachment back that's two counties over, but certainly not two states.
I live in a red county. We border a blue county and are adjacent to another that is heavily blue(Dallas). For my state, these are the closest places I would expect this to break out. Yeah Houston, Austin, and San Antonio will have their flare ups, but that's too far for me.
My focus is preventing the hordes from Fort Worth and Dallas from spreading.
That might mean leaving my family for a week to put down insurrection in a neighboring county to keep it from every reaching them.
Of course this is predicated on the thought that the local PD is in disarray and either can't handle the violence or has disbanded completely. If they are still active and haven't joined the red ranks, I won't interfere.
If we see Nat Guard troops deployed, that's another layer of diplomacy that needs to be waded through to see if they are open to using local groups for containment or even just recon. If I'm told to go home, and the figure of authority isn't wearing a blue helmet, I'll comply. Their job will be hard enough.
I'll return to my own place and continue with defensive plans, but keep an ear to the ground concerning how well the situation is progressing.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> It's a good question!
> 
> You're right that there won't be defined lines to advance to and join the "front". In my mind, fighters will primarily be used locally. You might join up with a group that's looking to push an encroachment back that's two counties over, but certainly not two states.
> I live in a red county. We border a blue county and are adjacent to another that is heavily blue(Dallas). For my state, these are the closest places I would expect this to break out. Yeah Houston, Austin, and San Antonio will have their flare ups, but that's too far for me.
> ...


We are lucky in the besides the National Guard, we have a sizable Texas State Guard. We may have to defend our areas but we will have help, at least I do believe we would.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> It's a good question!
> 
> You're right that there won't be defined lines to advance to and join the "front". In my mind, fighters will primarily be used locally. You might join up with a group that's looking to push an encroachment back that's two counties over, but certainly not two states.
> I live in a red county. We border a blue county and are adjacent to another that is heavily blue(Dallas). For my state, these are the closest places I would expect this to break out. Yeah Houston, Austin, and San Antonio will have their flare ups, but that's too far for me.
> ...


ND is red.... Fargo is blue.. much here depends on what Canada does. the ND orange army is suiting up in a month (deer season).. see what happens


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> ND is red.... Fargo is blue.. much here depends on what Canada does. the ND orange army is suiting up in a month (deer season).. see what happens


Frankly I don't believe that many of the fly over states will get hit on the first onslaught.

JMHO but I think they will start in major cities. Shock and awe us usually the theme in order to produce as much terror as they can. IF the rumor (and it is only a rumor) of a Tet Offensive is true then they will want to inflict as much damage as possible. The major suburbs will also be on that list. Most in the burbs will not be ready and it will be ugly. Places like the Dakota's and Montana will be an after thought.

Now they may hit a few rural towns but they will face a much stronger resistance there. I also don't think they have the man power to pull that off though.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

At my age, 72, I'm not headed off to join up with anyone.
I would be unable to hold up my end, and as anyone who has been in the military will tell you, someone who can't or won't pull their weight is lower than whale feces.

As far as training, I received the best - US Army 1960's style.
And still, I was unprepared for that first contact. But the training had been so repetetive, so drilled into the brain, I didn't even think. I just acted.
I do not think that any training short of Army or Marines will be good enough.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

inceptor said:


> Frankly I don't believe that many of the fly over states will get hit on the first onslaught.
> 
> JMHO but I think they will start in major cities. Shock and awe us usually the theme in order to produce as much terror as they can. IF the rumor (and it is only a rumor) of a Tet Offensive is true then they will want to inflict as much damage as possible. The major suburbs will also be on that list. Most in the burbs will not be ready and it will be ugly. Places like the Dakota's and Montana will be an after thought.
> 
> Now they may hit a few rural towns but they will face a much stronger resistance there. I also don't think they have the man power to pull that off though.


I agree and am counting on it... us rural folk would likely band up months before anyone even considers bothering us.. at least until winter is over.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I do not think that any training short of Army or Marines will be good enough.


Sad, but very likely true!
However, if such an event were to start, the overwhelming majority of participants on both sides would be greatly lacking in this area.
The only silver lining I could imagine is that most retired vets and active service men/women would be on the side defending the country from a socialist/marxist overthrow.
The civilian militia that showed up would benefit greatly from the training this leadership could muster.
The other side apparently has *some* interplay with ISIS, but I have no idea how prevalent that training is or would be among the rank-n-file comrades.


----------



## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I’m sure that the “other side” has a few highly trained men among their ranks. But I’m also sure that the vast majority of their ranks have no formal training at all. Just look at the privileged white college pansies doing the protesting now. Angry.....yes! Trained.......not so much. Some of the BLM thugs appear to have training. But overall they are relying on shock tactics where nobody gives them any real pushback. We have cops and a lot of ex-military on our side. Plus, people will go to great lengths to protect their homes and families. The thugs might have great success in the cities among the sheep. But when they come to the rural areas they are going to receive a much different reception. About 4 weeks ago a BLM group came to rural Bedford, PA and started their shit. One was promptly shot by a local. Suddenly the protestors decided to move on..........and no charges were filed against the locals.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

At 61 with bad knees and back I will not be humping it to another state to do battle. My area of operation would be limited to my immediate surrounding area and my personnel base of operation. I may join a local group of like minded here in my neighborhood and lend support to surrounding neighborhoods but that's about the extent of my usefulness these days. I am not 21 anymore so I'll oblige them to come to me.


----------



## K7JLJ (Sep 25, 2018)

What @Prepared One said.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I just want to be left alone.
But just because I choose to be peaceful does not mean I have forgotten how to be violent.


----------

