# Rainwater Collection First Flush Systems; My old one broke, any suggestions?



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, one of my "First Flush" systems on my Rainwater Collection downspouts broke, it lasted 7 years or so and did a very good job re-directing debris-free water from my metal roof via a gutter and downspout and into one of my 500 gallon collection tanks. The internal components just got "gummed up" with dirt and moldy crap. I never expected it to last forever but I was hoping to get more than 7 years out of it. It was a manufactured system from Rain Harvest Systems (see below). Today, it costs $100 and I think I paid $80 for it...]. so I guess approx $10 bucks a year ain't too bad...

https://www.rainharvest.com/rain-ha...anced-downspout-filter-and-diverter.asp?bc=no

...but...I'm thinking about building my own so if any of you knuckleheads have one that you successfully built, I'd appreciate a heads up!

Thanks!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

@Slippy, what does your downspouts/rain gutters look like and how small of debris do you want to filter? Picture would help.

MT


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Slippy said:


> Well, one of my "First Flush" systems on my Rainwater Collection downspouts broke, it lasted 7 years or so and did a very good job re-directing debris-free water from my metal roof via a gutter and downspout and into one of my 500 gallon collection tanks. The internal components just got "gummed up" with dirt and moldy crap.


It can't be cleaned?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

paulag1955 said:


> It can't be cleaned?


Yes,

Some of the parts were also broken (cheap plastic) and unsalvageable. But I did soak it in some bleach for a couple of days and even that wouldn't get it very clean. The fact that some of the parts that make it work are broken, trying to repair it just would be throwing good money after bad. Constant exposure to the elements and fast running water, leaves, debris etc can do a number on man-made component parts.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Slippy said:


> Yes,
> 
> Some of the parts were also broken (cheap plastic) and unsalvageable. But I did soak it in some bleach for a couple of days and even that wouldn't get it very clean. The fact that some of the parts that make it work are broken, trying to repair it just would be throwing good money after bad. Constant exposure to the elements and fast running water, leaves, debris etc can do a number on man-made component parts.


How frustrating.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Interesting. How much leaves versus dirt are actually on your roof? What about droppings? Is the water diverter actually necessary? Hmmm.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Mad Trapper said:


> @Slippy, what does your downspouts/rain gutters look like and how small of debris do you want to filter? Picture would help.
> 
> MT


MadT,

I have 6" Gutters and 4" Downspouts. The Rain Harvest system connected to the downspouts and after a few minutes of downpour from the roof (metal standing seam roof) the Inner Mechanisms of the First Flush System would divert the rain through a plastic tube to a 500 gallon tank.









The blue components are the moving parts of the system that rise and lower to allow water to either go down the downspouts or divert the water to the tank. Inside some pieces are broken. this is after I soaked it in bleach for a couple of days and looks so much better than the day I removed it. But, it would not be worth it to me to try and replace the parts to make it work.









As you can see I cut the downspouts and fitted the First Flush System into the gap and like I said it has worked flawlessly for about 7 years. This fall I noticed it wasn't working so I finally took it apart, cleaned it and tried to "jimmy rig" the internal parts, to no success.



paulag1955 said:


> How frustrating.


Not really, if this is the worst thing that happens to me today, I am living a Fantastic Blessed Life! :vs_smile:



Deebo said:


> Interesting. How much leaves versus dirt are actually on your roof? What about droppings? Is the water diverter actually necessary? Hmmm.


Mostly leaves from hardwoods (as you can see in the pic) that rot and turn into mulch dirt in the gutters if I don't clean it out once per year. The First Flush System has a screen that separates most of the debris. Plus I have a second screen in the tank. A few years ago I boiled some water from the tank, and filtered it through my Berkey and drank it. No issues.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm thinking about taking some 4" PVC and a plastic 4" round ball and making my own First Flush System...


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Slippy said:


> I'm thinking about taking some 4" PVC and a plastic 4" round ball and making my own First Flush System...


I can't imagine any kind of filter for around our western Washington place that wouldn't be clog every blasted day. Our neighbors have Leaf Guard gutters, and the installer is over there several times every winter unclogging them.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Yes,
> 
> Some of the parts were also broken (cheap plastic) and unsalvageable. But I did soak it in some bleach for a couple of days and even that wouldn't get it very clean. The fact that some of the parts that make it work are broken, trying to repair it just would be throwing good money after bad. Constant exposure to the elements and fast running water, leaves, debris etc can do a number on man-made component parts.


A good coarse screen where the downspout connects to the gutter is where to start.

Make a cage that goes over the hole in the gutter from agricultural screen, the stout stuff with about 3/8 " square holes. About 1-11/2 " tall, twice as wide as the hole. It will take out coarse stuff, have a lot of surface area, and take a while to clog.

Downstream from that, on the downspout? What does system look like?..........

Several finer series of removeable/cleanable/replaceable, stainless screens. Large area, so they will handle fast flows.......


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I'm thinking about taking some 4" PVC and a plastic 4" round ball and making my own First Flush System...


Go with 6-8", more surface area/less clogs. Several short sections, that screw together, fittings are available, make your "balls" out of screen material , coarse to fine mesh.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

For those who don't know about a First Flush Diverter system in rainwater collection, here is the concept;


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Slippy said:


> For those who don't know about a First Flush Diverter system in rainwater collection, here is the concept;


Way more complex than my system.

I have a standard downspout collector (plumbed to two downspouts, a screen inside) that I put a 45 degree elbow on. That feeds to a 275-gal tote, using a length of downspout, and a 2nd 45 degree elbow. The tank cap has a wire mesh window screen to keep out skeeters and debris, the 2nd elbow goes there. Some skeeters still get in, I add a bit of BT pellet to the tank once a month and no skeeter problems.

The tank has an adapter for garden hose, I use 3/4" hose. Tank sits about 10' from house, if it overflows, it just comes out top , away from house.

My house is ~15' above my garden, that has 4 more 275-gal tanks.

I run the hose down there and fill the tanks as needed/rainfall allows, using the ball valve on the tank.

If I wanted to connect a pump, it's easy from the hose fitting from the collecting tank or garden tanks. The garden tanks feed 55-gal barrels located about the garden.

System is down now, it's winter/ 3 oF today (ever seen a 275-gal ice cube?) . I take the elbow off the downspout collector, and install conventional down spout, that dumps away from house.

~ 2 months too late to get a picture.

Whole system was price of: the used food grade totes, some adapters for their ball valves, and downspout parts. ~350-400$ for a 1100-gal system.

Also, house roof is metal so no shingle debris if I needed to filter/treat the water for drinking.

P.S. I forgot to drain one garden tank this fall. And have learned frozen solid the tanks don't split. We had a warm spell and I then drained that tank.

Which gave me another idea; real big ice cubes for an "ice house" for summer storage of perishables. Would be handy right next to vegetable garden.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Hope you get back in bizness quick. Catching rainwater is too cool. Bunch of folks use the system out in West Texas semi desert areas..Fort Stockton..Big Bend etc. Bunch of them on houses in Whiskeyta Falls since they had a such a nasty old drought they were drinking water direct from the turd grinder. Had an Aunt in Albany Shackleford County back in the 60s. She said it was perfect for washing clothes. Got in a discussion with a smart water type guy one time. He said a cistern is highly more efficent to provide drinking water than is a Lake..due to all kinds of bad things but the foremost critque as how much is lost to evaporation. He say Lakes are for recreation.


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

Mad Trapper said:


> Way more complex than my system.
> 
> I have a standard downspout collector (plumbed to two downspouts, a screen inside) that I put a 45 degree elbow on. That feeds to a 275-gal tote, using a length of downspout, and a 2nd 45 degree elbow. The tank cap has a wire mesh window screen to keep out skeeters and debris, the 2nd elbow goes there. Some skeeters still get in, I add a bit of BT pellet to the tank once a month and no skeeter problems.
> 
> The tank has an adapter for garden hose, I use 3/4" hose. Tank sits about 10' from house, if it overflows, it just comes out top , away from house.


Similar here, but much less overall capacity than you guys. 55 gallon drums off both downspouts, screen just to keep out leaves and larger critters, and they just overflow. Drainage isn't a problem around here, most homes without basements don't even have gutters.










This is mainly as a Plan B for toilet flushing water, we're off the grid and the well pump is a significant drain on the batteries. We don't worry about it now but in the event of a problem with the well, the solar system, the backup generator, propane delivery, etc, I don't want to waste power or have to haul water long distances just to flush the toilet. The spigot is about 6" up so we don't get much sediment that has settled to the bottom, I just clean them out each spring and add some bleach a couple times a year.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Crunch said:


> Similar here, but much less overall capacity than you guys. 55 gallon drums off both downspouts, screen just to keep out leaves and larger critters, and they just overflow. Drainage isn't a problem around here, most homes without basements don't even have gutters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Boy you got that right about the pump being a drain on the batteries.
We're off-grid too, and for the same reasons you stated - I had a hand pump system installed this summer down the same casing. Luckily our static is at 47' (well drilled 200' through solid granite) but even at that it's better than hauling water up here from the lake, which we did.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Crunch said:


> Similar here, but much less overall capacity than you guys. 55 gallon drums off both downspouts, screen just to keep out leaves and larger critters, and they just overflow. Drainage isn't a problem around here, most homes without basements don't even have gutters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Get yourself an elbow and a 275-gal tote to hook that up to.

If you use it for drinking water make sure the barrel is food grade


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Boy you got that right about the pump being a drain on the batteries.
> We're off-grid too, and for the same reasons you stated - I had a hand pump system installed the summer down the same casing. Luckily our static is at 47' (well drilled 200' through solid granite) but even at that it's better than hauling water up here from the lake, which we did.


Great minds do think alike  Separate well, about 200 yards from the house.










Toilet/sanitation Plan C in the background.

I thought about more capacity MT, there's a place that sells used IBC containers nearby for $75 IIRC. It'd just be overkill for us I think, water is readily available all around us even when it's not falling from the sky.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Crunch said:


> Great minds do think alike  Separate well, about 200 yards from the house.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Two wells would be sweet! Paying for one to be drilled here was enough, lol 
We had septic tank system installed in 2016. You know what we did before that. 

Sorry Slippy for the sidetrack!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

MountainGirl said:


> Two wells would be sweet! Paying for one to be drilled here was enough, lol
> We had septic tank system installed in 2016. You know what we did before that.
> 
> Sorry Slippy for the sidetrack!


Not at all, Good Stuff!

I've told this story before but I drilled 2 wells. We are on a ridge on shale rock so the prognosis wasn't great... but there are wells in the area. So, I stopped at 400 feet on my first attempt, nothing but shale.

My second attempt yielded less than a gallon per minute, not enough to run a homestead on so I brought in county water. Pretty expensive. My neighbor about 1/4 mile away also came up dry but another neighbor 1/4 the other direction got a few gallons a minute at 200 feet and I plan on one day drilling again on the furthest part of my land nearest his land. Maybe I'll hit!

Right now, the 2nd well is plan C, and my rainwater retention system is plan B if my county water goes to hell!


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

We had over 3 inches of rain here yesterday, and probably 2+ inches the day before. It's still raining today. I wish I had a cistern.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Forgot to post a pic of the repaired Rain Catchment First Flush System, working like a charm!


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I don't get enough raid to worry about down here is southern AZ, 11 inches per year, 
but I've been getting about 15 inches plus every year.. I just put out storage tubs
to catch the rain right of the roof. Fortunately, trees and associated leaves aren't a 
problem. I was shocked the first time I collected water down here.


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## Gabridussel11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Interesting. How much leaves versus dirt are actually on your roof? What about droppings? Is the water diverter actually necessary? Hmmm.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I don't get enough raid to worry about down here is southern AZ, 11 inches per year,
> but I've been getting about 15 inches plus every year.. I just put out storage tubs
> to catch the rain right of the roof. Fortunately, trees and associated leaves aren't a
> problem. I was shocked the first time I collected water down here.


My Aunt out in Shackleford County said she loved clothes washed in cistern water. That must be very special.


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