# Are Prepper's failed Survivalists?



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Due to the controversial nature of this question, I decided to take the slings and arrows upon myself instead of piggybacking other threads.

A Survivalist thrives with nothing other than the thought process within thier head. A Prepper hoards/stores/prepares items that will make life easier if stranded in a survival situation. So while a Prepper may need to have learned/spent time/or gleaned from others during a survival situation, the concept of Prepping admits that you are unsure that you could or are unwilling too Survive as a Pure Survivalist! 

Or is Prepping just the fear that those coming after you may not have the skills required to Survive in the harshest of Realities????????????????


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Survivalist was the name before prepper became fashionable


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

They are two distinctly different types In My World tango!

Survive above the Arctic Circle, with what you have while on your keyboard at this moment, or prepare in case you or yours must survive this moment in the future. 

Need I say more? As you type, can you survive at this moment in the hardest of environments? 

Not could I, Would I, at this second what did you do??????????????????????????


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

M118,

If I understand your premise correctly, it would appear that you are trying to use labels to classify all who choose to be prepared. Just two labels to be precise. I would take exception based on the following points:

Many prepared persons or survivalists do not care to be labeled.
Limiting “membership” to only two proposed categories would not be acceptable nor applicable to most.
Many would fit into both of your proposed categories and even other classifications.
There is not a "shoe fits all" perspective here.
It would also not be applicable to use an “inside the box“ concept that one would have to adhere to.

Just my thoughts ……


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

M118LR is IMHO right that the two are not the same. Survivors make do with situations with what they have in hand when the fecal matter self levitates up into the rotating oscilator. It was kind of like how we addressed a NK invasion back in the 70's and 80's. It was defined as a come as you are war. No outside help for the foreseeable future. Preparing for an event tries to take some of the uncertainty out of responding to events that may happen. The military analogy is our stockpiling A combat brigade equipment package in Diego or Saudi or the UAE. 

Having been in a few "survivor " type events, I can tell you I would much rather had the SWAT team right beside me instead of just this lone four eyed fat man, but survivors make do with what's at hand


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## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

By your description a Survivalist would seem to be a person who has extensive training, but is without supplies
while on their trek. While a Prepper certainly wishes to survive and make plans ahead of time to be able to do so.

I'm betting that Survivalists wish they had more supplies. Les Stroud was constantly bemoaning not having this
or not having that. I admire his tenacity and knowledge (he beats Bear Grylls any day of the week).

I try to avoid situations that put my life in danger, but try to be prepared in any case.

Grim

Old Man...technically "oscillation" denotes a "back and forth swinging motion".


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Watchman, I just intend to take you into my world. I left home with 3 kids and a spouse at 0430 today. When I showed up for work I was transported to the Arctic Circle with nothing more than I came to work with. Now as you sit behind your terminal at this second; How are you going to come Home, and how could you bring those you left behind back with you?????????

About you're labeling, This has really happened, now what are YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT! 

Everything you prepared for has come down to what you have on you while you are typing this, now bring everyone and everything you care about back home from the Arctic Circle at this moment!!!!!!!!!!

Game on, the others pay for your failures first, but you may live to talk about this!


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## Grinch (Jan 3, 2016)

In my own opinion here we are survivalists, we just don't want it come down to us with just our knives. 
With this being said I think the vast majority of us would rather " play it safe " and enjoy some freeze dried meals in our houses rather than being out in the wilderness. Your definition sounds to be matching someone like Rambo, I personally am no Rambo. Is it good to know how survive with what you got in your pockets for however long in the woods ? Absolutely, but why crawl inside a deer carcass to stay warm compared to staying next to the wood stove ? 
Truthfully it might help some people to get out of the normalcy of their mundane lives and actually experience a possible life or death situation to be more prepared, to go past their comfort zones. To survive a grizzly mauling I'd rather be a prepper and have my Glock 20 than be a Rambo " survivalist " and try to climb a tree or fight back with my bare hands no pun intended or let alone a knife. Because I would dare to say you take the 10 best survivalists out there against a grizzly, I'd win every time with my Glock.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

But Grinch, everything you came into this scenario with was stripped from you by excessive velocity or the fickle finger of faith. It is time to fabricate a knife cause yours was lost. You are in this scenario as naked as you came into the World, and others are dependent on you to make it HOME. I'll give you everything that you have on you as you sit before this keyboard, but that is already a Prepper Mentality.


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

I think we are all survivalists first and preppers second. 

Could I survive if I was immediately and against most laws of physics transported above the Arctic circle only with what I have on right now? Nope, sure death. Tee shirt, jeans, socks and lying in bed and nothing in my pockets.

Could I survive a natural disaster if it were to happen right here. Most likely because I have prepared as best I can and hope some of those preps are available after SHTF.

This is why we have BOBs, INCH bags, caches, EDCs, frigging Altoid tins and SKILLS. 

We prep so that we might not have to "just" survive, but I hope we all practice those survival techniques (SKILLS) just in case because that is the true SHTF, when we have nothing but what is in our pockets.

Starting a fire in the rain. Building a snow or ice cave. Finding water in the desert or fresh water in the jungle. Making a blade from obsidian or a fish hook from bones. Etc, etc ad nauseum.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

So this is the moment, whatever you attempted to prepare for has now happened, as you sit before this keyboard and you have what you have ,as you intend to type this S just hit the fan!!!!!!!!!
Welcome to reality, no warnings bells or whistles, when you opened up this forum S just hit the fan. What are you doing about it? 
NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

There are two different ideas of survivalist and prepper by M119LR's definition. However there is some significant over lap. Trying to survive for the long term with what happens to be in your pocket is a tall order. Many of those skills can be helpful for a prepper. Notice that the survivalists are not doing so for months or years on their shows. It's shorter term, to get back to civilization. I would rather prep and stack the odds to be more favorable to surviving. Why intentionally make things harder than they need to be?


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## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

Ooops! The GRID just imploded and my computer screen has gone black! Sorry!

I'll move about 10 feet, grab my Glock 21 with laser, two extra mags and a flashlight and go down to the basement 
to get my HK91 and a kerosene Alladin lantern. On my way back I'll turn on my multi-band battery powered radio.

There! The doors are locked, my dog is at my side...HECK!! I think I'm all set! Time to open up a beer!

Grim

Ain't survival GREAT?!


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Camel923, it isn't my goal to pass any judgement. But as a Prepper you now need to survive the moment of this situation in order to make any of the items you prepared for useful. All the other ideals are of no relevant purpose if you can't Survive and Evacuate those depending upon you from the Arctic Circle at this moment with what you have on you in-front of this keyboard at this critical moment!


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Grim Reality said:


> Ooops! The GRID just imploded and my computer screen has gone black! Sorry!
> 
> I'll move about 10 feet, grab my Glock 21 with laser, two extra mags and a flashlight and go down to the basement
> to get my HK91 and a kerosene Alladin lantern. On my way back I'll turn on my multi-band battery powered radio.
> ...


Sorry Grim Reality, at the end of your daily commute they took you bye the arm and stuck you at the North Pole. Deal with it, or you failed.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

First off, I see a survivalist as someone like Les Stroud of "Survivorman" This is a man with extensive knowledge of how to survive with basically nothing when dropped into different situations. 

Then their are peppers, Ordinary people who know (or at least think they know) that hard times are a coming and they want to stock up on food, water and other supplies to make sure that they and their family are not starving in that event.

Now, a survivor would have a hard time in a SHTF situation as well as their will be MILLIONS of people trying for the same resources as they are. They may be better and in the long run may outlast the non survivors but wont be as well off as a Prepper!

Oh, and there is no way I would let anyone come into my home and take me and my family ANYWHERE without my permission, so no one is taking me and my family to the arctic circle...


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Doc, they don't announce that this is the end of the world as you know it. Ordinary people can do extra ordinary things when they put thier mind to it. But if you are banking on what you have put away previously to sustain you and yours in the future............Failure is the common denominator............ To make it to tomorrow, what are you doing at this moment!!!!!


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Perhaps this concept is unacceptable to many? 
Maybe I should pass along real World Experience other than what I have already given?


Real or Surreal? At the instant that the Embassy in Tehran Fell, I was in Bandar Abbas Iran waiting to deliver canned hams to the Embassy folks during Ramadan. The Air Controllers didn't give US clearance or even acknowledge our transmissions. Guess what you have the instant that SHTF? Ball is in your court!!!!!!

Thank You Sky-king, for those that might understand.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

After SHTF, ask the survivalists if he wishes he had been a prepper............


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## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

Well, I guessing that YOU, M118LR, COULD survive if at this moment you were dropped above the arctic circle?

Do you sit at your computer dressed in clothing designed to protect you from weather 50 degrees below zero?
Do you have a full canteen of water with you at this moment? A radio? An appropriate firearm? Map? Compass?
Tent? You do realize that you are being dropped off 120 miles from any form of civilization, don't you? 
You are, of course, totally alone. Do you have even 1 meal ON YOU RIGHT NOW?

Even having all the things I just mentioned probably won't be enough to get you out of that predicament.
Your only means of transportation is to walk. Are you wearing snowshoes? Are you wearing something
to protect you from snow blindness?

And if you don't have ALL of those things ON YOU RIGHT NOW...........YOU are the DEAD DUCK!!

Except for someone who makes their living at it, I don't see why anyone would intentionally engage in 
an exercise where the entire deck is stacked against them. 

A survivalist may face great hardship and odds and emerge victorious...but he can also die.

Are you so good at what you do that you know you will prevail no matter the circumstances?

Any of us can cook up an imaginative situation and discuss it...but let's not pretend that it's real.

Nor should any of us be judged by such an academic exercise. And that's all you're proposing.

Grim


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

If you think you can have this conversation without surviving the initial situation, Please write it in your memorares so that others can expound upon your concepts!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

I will be the first to admit it..... If someone picked me up and dropped my off at the arctic circle with what I am wearing at this moment and without any other things to survive... Im gonna die there. 

Hell I would probably die up there if they gave me help.. I am not a young man any more and I am racked with pain every minute so without my meds I would be crabby bear bait. I failed!


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Grim Reality said:


> Well, I guessing that YOU, M118LR, COULD survive if at this moment you were dropped above the arctic circle?
> 
> Do you sit at your computer dressed in clothing designed to protect you from weather 50 degrees below zero?
> Do you have a full canteen of water with you at this moment? A radio? An appropriate firearm? Map? Compass?
> ...


Grim, I have already told you that this was not an academic exercise for me. I am giving you a chance to evaluate your situation in advance of being an active participant in such a situation? Could I have died, yes that was a consequence. Did it happen at that time? Am I giving you a heads up of what can happen? Could I once again survive such a situation? Past performance is not an indication of future performance. Is this the reality of what SHTF could/might/would be like? ??????????

Consider this on your mourning commute to work, the reality of SHTF isn't anything like you think you have prepared for. Now you need to survive until you can make it to the safety of your preparations.Just a few words from one that has experienced things that others shy from. No Thanks Required, just ponder the possibilities for the sake of those you cherish.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Doc Holliday said:


> I will be the first to admit it..... If someone picked me up and dropped my off at the arctic circle with what I am wearing at this moment and without any other things to survive... Im gonna die there.
> 
> Hell I would probably die up there if they gave me help.. I am not a young man any more and I am racked with pain every minute so without my meds I would be crabby bear bait. I failed!


Your mind is a far better weapon than your body! What another man has done We can also do, never give up!!!!! It's easy to be a quitter, those depending on US don't accept such an answer..............


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

M118LR said:


> Due to the controversial nature of this question, I decided to take the slings and arrows upon myself instead of piggybacking other threads.
> 
> A Survivalist thrives with nothing other than the thought process within thier head. A Prepper hoards/stores/prepares items that will make life easier if stranded in a survival situation. So while a Prepper may need to have learned/spent time/or gleaned from others during a survival situation, the concept of Prepping admits that you are unsure that you could or are unwilling too Survive as a Pure Survivalist!
> 
> Or is Prepping just the fear that those coming after you may not have the skills required to Survive in the harshest of Realities????????????????


I believe you are thinking backwards about this. I know myself, and probably a lot of people on here have already survived... we have already had the experience of facing our mortality, struggling to survive when we have been knocked to our lowest level. For some of us several times. How many people here have had to pick themselves off the ground, continue on with what they have and learned to pull themselves up again? No matter what the cause, it is survival. We did not give up. This could have been financial, health issues, death, job loss, divorce, war or many other reasons. Our own struggles are personal to each of us. 
Now that we know how fragile we are, we are prepared to protect it. Maybe we stock up on bullets and beans, but it's because we don't want to fall that far again.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

M118LR said:


> A Survivalist thrives with nothing other than the thought process within thier head. A Prepper hoards/stores/prepares items that will make life easier if stranded in a survival situation. So while a Prepper may need to have learned/spent time/or gleaned from others during a survival situation, the concept of Prepping admits that you are unsure that you could or are unwilling too Survive as a Pure Survivalist!


I'm wholly unwilling to forgo the opportunity I currently have to set aside what I can during the easy times to make life easier during "the transition".
That said, I fully respect and envy those with the skills to live off the land. I seek that knowledge, but fully admit that I am not capable of doing that yet.


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

The survivalist has the skills to maybe be able to survive being dropped off in the Arctic Circle with what he is carrying right now. The prepper is aware enough to avoid the situation of being dropped off in the Arctic Circle in the first place.

Is either a failure?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

tirednurse said:


> I believe you are thinking backwards about this. I know myself, and probably a lot of people on here have already survived... we have already had the experience of facing our mortality, struggling to survive when we have been knocked to our lowest level. For some of us several times. How many people here have had to pick themselves off the ground, continue on with what they have and learned to pull themselves up again? No matter what the cause, it is survival. We did not give up. This could have been financial, health issues, death, job loss, divorce, war or many other reasons. Our own struggles are personal to each of us.
> Now that we know how fragile we are, we are prepared to protect it. Maybe we stock up on bullets and beans, but it's because we don't want to fall that far again.


tirednurse, in a way I have to admit that you have hit that nail on the head. It is no longer possible for me to look at this in any way but in hindsight. But I ask your indulgence as there is no other way that I know of to prepare others for what surely shall come if SHTF. Irregardless of your personal fragility, if you can give me an insight as to how I can pass along my professional experiences without others having to be part of them, I shall consider it a personal favor. I ask but theoretical questions to real life perseverance, how may I better convey such things?????????


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## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

While I cannot say that I would survive being above the arctic circle (since all I have on is a pair of Berkenstocks,
a Duluth Long T-shirt, and a pair of jeans) I probably would be dead in 60 minutes due simply to hypothermia. I
imagine you would as well...and almost anyone else in the same circumstances.

I am someone who has a good sense of awareness. I am always reconnoitering my surroundings. I take note of
who is behind, to the side & in front of me frequently. I often find myself running through scenarios..."If that guy
does such and so...I'm going to do this or that" and having mental talks to myself about my milieu. I look at the
possible weaknesses and strengths of situations as I go about my day. I am a good shot and carry a 45 ACP with
me almost everywhere I go. I can hit what I aim at...quickly. If it makes a difference at all, I came in second in 
my Gunsite class, beaten only by a SWAT officer from Fresno...(Damn that guy!).

I am 6'3" 250 lbs. Generally, people don't mess with me. I have studied karate, Aikido, was a wrestler in high
school and have dabbled in Krav-maga (spelling?). I have been interested in survival and preparedness since
1978. I have an IQ of 137. I have studied foraging, I can make a shelter in almost any environment as long as
I have trees or bushes to work with. I speak multiple languages. I have extensive experience in emergency
medicine. I do not smoke or drink (my beer comment earlier was made out of levity). I can keep my head when
things "get exciting". I have a high pain tolerance...but I don't pursue it.

In short I have made survival a study. My preps are fairly extensive. My home is reasonably safe & comfortable.

And those who are surviving, in truth, are enduring what they must in order to get themselves back to that
comfortable environment called home. Well, I'm already there.

Grim

And I wanted to post a LIKE to Tired Nurse's comment above, but for some reason the button is gone!


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

BuckB said:


> The survivalist has the skills to maybe be able to survive being dropped off in the Arctic Circle with what he is carrying right now. The prepper is aware enough to avoid the situation of being dropped off in the Arctic Circle in the first place.
> 
> Is either a failure?


Great concept BuckB, but when SHTF avoiding the situation isn't part of the equation.

If you didn't survive the initial situation, you shall never know that you failed.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

M118LR said:


> tirednurse, in a way I have to admit that you have hit that nail on the head. It is no longer possible for me to look at this in any way but in hindsight. But I ask your indulgence as there is no other way that I know of to prepare others for what surely shall come if SHTF. Irregardless of your personal fragility, if you can give me an insight as to how I can pass along my professional experiences without others having to be part of them, I shall consider it a personal favor. I ask but theoretical questions to real life perseverance, how may I better convey such things?????????


this is a question I ask all the time. Maybe not in the same words, but we also have different experiences. I don't think there is a ways to teach people to understand what they have not experienced. I could write a book about what makes me a "prepper", but in reality the reason is because I'm afraid. I fear the suffering of what could happen, and what I can not control. I try to do what I can to help me control what can hurt me.

You will never teach someone that.


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

M118LR said:


> Great concept BuckB, but when SHTF avoiding the situation isn't part of the equation.
> 
> If you didn't survive the initial situation, you shall never know that you failed.


As we have spoken about privately, I have been through a few life and death situations, albeit not as dramatic or threatening as yours. But the one thing I noticed is that survival in the initial seconds/minutes of a SHTF situation, being lucky and being blessed by God is at least as important as being skilled.

You were in Iran in '78/'79 so you KNOW that to be true. The situation at the embassy could have easily gone wrong and the 50 hostages ended up dead before they ever became hostages.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Grim Reality said:


> While I cannot say that I would survive being above the arctic circle (since all I have on is a pair of Berkenstocks,
> a Duluth Long T-shirt, and a pair of jeans) I probably would be dead in 60 minutes due simply to hypothermia. I
> imagine you would as well...and almost anyone else in the same circumstances.
> 
> ...


You are 6'3 & 250, but long before 1978 Mike E gave me a little schooling in Hwa Rang Do. I am 5'8 & 160 yet you do not have the ability to strike any fear in me. I carried 2 35mm SLR's and a S!!!can full of BW high res film into area's in Nam that others feared to go with full-auto rifles. I have survived and returned to strive in the situation that I relay to you.

On the ice-pack there are no trees, bushes, and only in the summer is there moss. The Northern wind has it's own language, that is why you have 2 ears and but one mouth. But should you take a moment to realize that you are barely the man that those that count on you think you are, you shall be humbled by your task. Perhaps now is the moment to realize how far past your physical being your desire/mind can drive you?????????


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

tirednurse said:


> this is a question I ask all the time. Maybe not in the same words, but we also have different experiences. I don't think there is a ways to teach people to understand what they have not experienced. I could write a book about what makes me a "prepper", but in reality the reason is because I'm afraid. I fear the suffering of what could happen, and what I can not control. I try to do what I can to help me control what can hurt me.
> 
> You will never teach someone that.


Perhaps BuckB has a concept that you don't tirednurse, but I blame that upon myself. But what happens behind closed doors should probably stay behind closed doors. For I can not even share those things with those that rely upon me for their survival.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

^^^^being lucky and blessed by God? I am alive and lucky to be. How do I not understand that?


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Another bullshit thread for you to tell us how badass you think you are.......you've got to be the most annoying internet commando I've had the misfortune to read behind lately.

For real, grow up.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

tirednurse said:


> ^^^^being lucky and blessed by God? I am alive and lucky to be. How do I not understand that?


I am neither, yet I still am here to discuss it. That I do not understand. Better,Luckier,More God Fearing and more skilled men than I have passed in my arms. Yet I am left to attempt to impart not my abilities, just my exploits upon your thoughts.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

So all I got out of that is that you either feel guilty or superior that your betters have died and you did not. how does that relate to your question?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

ffparamedic said:


> Another bullshit thread for you to tell us how badass you think you are.......you've got to be the most annoying internet commando I've had the misfortune to read behind lately.
> 
> For real, grow up.


For real, shut up. As you have no experience or the ability to think conceptually please let the grown folks talk without interruption. I am an Old Man long past my prime, what I have done shall not be changed by your insignificant whining. The question of could I do once more that what I once did is irrelevant, but puzzling. Needless to say it isn't a question of what I have done, so much as it is a question of what you would be willing to do. Goodnight ffparamedic.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

tirednurse said:


> So all I got out of that is that you either feel guilty or superior that your betters have died and you did not. how does that relate to your question?


Are you thinking about what you could/would/should do if this was the moment that the world as we know it came to an end and you had to keep those relying upon you safe? 
How much of what you have hoarded matters at that moment? 
What are you going to need to do to get back to them at any moment in time during your normal(?) day?

Perhaps I have conveyed a message that I do not have the ability to answer, but just relaying the message is cause for pause.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

I'll let Liam Neeson's character from Taken (not the actor, he's a douche) answer for me...









Skills which I continue to hone. And I also Prep so hopefully I won't need to use those skills.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

^^^^^^ are you kidding me? Am I thinking about it? I live it every breath I take. Every move I make I plan, prepare and think about what the bottom line is. I have turned into some crazy hoarder in the eyes of my family and most friends, who think am I crazy. what friends? I drove those away. I have fellow preppers now. Normal women think about silly things like getting their nails done, or what to cook for dinner. I worry about escape routes, ammo storage and hiding my grandkids from the crazy SOB that will someday come to try to take what is mine. I have drilled my children until they avoid me on safety drills, code words and when to know the shit has hit the fan and get home NOW. 
I work 20 hours a day, all with the goal of survival both now and in the future. 
Do I think about THE MOMENT? do you know every mile of the roads in your area? do you have a map in your head of every store in your area, what they stock and where. Your plan to run in and get out in 5 if you have the chance as your running to get home? Ever home along the way that I know has guns, have people to avoid, or those that could help. I live that moment every day. 
Does it matter? Nobody will know until it happens. Nobody knows if someone's stupid mistake will make all these plans futile.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

tirednurse said:


> ^^^^^^ are you kidding me? Am I thinking about it? I live it every breath I take. Every move I make I plan, prepare and think about what the bottom line is. I have turned into some crazy hoarder in the eyes of my family and most friends, who think am I crazy. what friends? I drove those away. I have fellow preppers now. Normal women think about silly things like getting their nails done, or what to cook for dinner. I worry about escape routes, ammo storage and hiding my grandkids from the crazy SOB that will someday come to try to take what is mine. I have drilled my children until they avoid me on safety drills, code words and when to know the shit has hit the fan and get home NOW.
> I work 20 hours a day, all with the goal of survival both now and in the future.
> Do I think about THE MOMENT? do you know every mile of the roads in your area? do you have a map in your head of every store in your area, what they stock and where. Your plan to run in and get out in 5 if you have the chance as your running to get home? Ever home along the way that I know has guns, have people to avoid, or those that could help. I live that moment every day.
> Does it matter? Nobody will know until it happens. Nobody knows if someone's stupid mistake will make all these plans futile.


tirednurse, you are not the complacent or inexperienced person that I was attempting to relay reality to. I am sorry if I have reawakened the experiences that started you on your journey towards being a prepper. Like fire drills your children shall never have the ability to thank you until after they have survived the fire, so don't beat yourself up. Just be secure in the knowledge that if it's never needed, you have succeeded. None of US shall know if all our efforts are fruitful unless they are put to the test, and none of US ever want to have to face that test. JMHO. But being aware that such things can come to pass, gives you pause to spend that extra moment of embrace without fear of reproach. JMHO.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

We don't do fire drills. we do SHTF drills. 
Every once in awhile I text my family our code word for time to take action. Each one of them has a list of last minute supplies they are to grab if able to pass a store that doesn't look crazy and get home asap. this includes things like filling extra gas cans, buying non perishable food, alcohol, medical supplies. All are well stocked at home so they know if they can't it doesn't matter. 
everyone has a job to do once they get home. They all know each other's job also in case a member of the family does not get there fast enough. this includes completing daily chores, topping off water storage, filling generator, making sure home, yard and animals are secure, a meal is prepared for all, and any personal and stored weapons are checked and double checked. everyone is on alert, off phones, no texting except in code, TV on the news and little children settled in a safe zone and with an adult who does not leave them for any reason. 
My children have practiced this or similar their whole lives. Why? because they know I'm right. They have seen me proved right enough and I didn't raise no stupid adults


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

tirednurse said:


> We don't do fire drills. we do SHTF drills.
> Every once in awhile I text my family our code word for time to take action. Each one of them has a list of last minute supplies they are to grab if able to pass a store that doesn't look crazy and get home asap. this includes things like filling extra gas cans, buying non perishable food, alcohol, medical supplies. All are well stocked at home so they know if they can't it doesn't matter.
> everyone has a job to do once they get home. They all know each other's job also in case a member of the family does not get there fast enough. this includes completing daily chores, topping off water storage, filling generator, making sure home, yard and animals are secure, a meal is prepared for all, and any personal and stored weapons are checked and double checked. everyone is on alert, off phones, no texting except in code, TV on the news and little children settled in a safe zone and with an adult who does not leave them for any reason.
> My children have practiced this or similar their whole lives. Why? because they know I'm right. They have seen me proved right enough and I didn't raise no stupid adults


Tirednurse I'm glad you are in our circle! I'm copying your posts and printing them out for my wife and maybe then I can get her onboard! Some of us do
see what is coming I have no doubt you are one!


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## Draq wraith (Oct 25, 2015)

I view it as a chicken and egg problem. 
Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Survivalist are the chickens and the prepper the egg.
Everyone hits that one snafu where they start to say I survived X,Y, and Z I really need to prepare for (name your next fear event here.) .
This is how it starts usually. Next an event comes up they use what they know and transform into survivalist.
But technically they were survivalist when they survived their first events.
So go figure I tend to think the names can be switched.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

So hopefully everyone got a chance to review their commute to work, what they take with as preparations to and at work, those that were sitting on their preparations beside the keyboard probably felt the best. 
Thank you ffparmedic for allowing me the moment of silence to hear tirednurse's detailed planning. How many used that example to plan their route home tonight?


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

Interestimg debate. Prepping means to prepare for the most common disasters or emergencies that could effect you because of where you live. Examples are tornadoes flooding etc. In some cases that means looting and lawlessness too. 

So you prepare yourself to survive and come out of some event on top ready to rebuild and or carry on as it were. 

Preparing to survive. 

You could sub out the term "survivalist" in a few sub categories. 

Wilderness survival
Urban survival
Emergency survival
Lawlessness survival
Grid down survival

Im sure there are more! These are just pre coffe brain thoughts. 

So a prepper, who prepares to survive in most situations, is what i would think of a general survivalist. 

We do have the distinction of storing goods one may need if the grid were down for a moderare period of time. But its to survive that situation. 

Well rounded preppers, like myself *ahem* also wilderness camp to practice basic bush crafting skills, prep for grid down and store items of great use should the supply and distribution chain become disrupted. 

To prep isnt just hoarding goods. Its practicing skills and learning how to do stuff yourself. Its a mindset, and a way of life. 

Most Bear Grylls types just hop out of the bush and hit a mcdonalds drive through. 

Preppers make their own.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Way back in the 70's, the survival movement was big.
We had a liberal incompetent President, hostages in Iran, very high interest and inflation, and things were glum.
Some survivalist's moved to the country, bought 'retreats', stocked food, guns, ammo, got chickens, cattle, rabbits, and such.
Some stayed where they were and prepared as best they could. Some folks did nothing, they saw no problems.

Does any of that sound familiar?
Somewhere along the way prepper became the new label.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Survivalists have learned to embrace the suck, Preppers work diligently to avoid it.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

I think this is getting way out of hand ,, we do what we have to do to live in this world ,, I am a survivalist and a prepper ,, I prep to survive ,, what's so hard about that ?????


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Seneca said:


> Survivalists have learned to embrace the suck, Preppers work diligently to avoid it.


Thats fairly accurate Seneca, but there are also different motivations. Now granted I began with extremes to get across the initial point. But for example:

Flooding, about the most common of natural disasters it can occur anywhere it rains.

Now a prepper returning to their base of operations has to desert the vehicle and have either enough rope to cross the flood area or an inflatable raft/boat with which to continue the journey to their sanctuary. 
The Survivalist need only camp safely upon the high ground and await the waters drop.
Without a cache of preparations and others awaiting the survivalists arrival, all the survivalist needs to do is weather out the storm.

So how many streams,creeks,rivers, overpasses, or general areas that could suddenly become flooded did you cross on your return commute? Is there enough rope coiled in the backseat to cover any possible flood area or watercourse if it swelled to 4 times it's normal size? Do you have hand-loops every four feet for at least half the length of the coil? If the watercourse that you cross is to large to rope across, do you have an inflatable watercraft in the vehicle? If you are lucky enough to be within your prepared sanctuary when disaster strikes none of those type of preparations are important, but if disaster strikes before you can get back to your sanctuary do you have the preparations to finish your commute on-board?


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

I think you are confusing survivors with survivalists.
There is a difference.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

tirednurse said:


> We don't do fire drills. we do SHTF drills.
> Every once in awhile I text my family our code word for time to take action. Each one of them has a list of last minute supplies they are to grab if able to pass a store that doesn't look crazy and get home asap. this includes things like filling extra gas cans, buying non perishable food, alcohol, medical supplies. All are well stocked at home so they know if they can't it doesn't matter.
> everyone has a job to do once they get home. They all know each other's job also in case a member of the family does not get there fast enough. this includes completing daily chores, topping off water storage, filling generator, making sure home, yard and animals are secure, a meal is prepared for all, and any personal and stored weapons are checked and double checked. everyone is on alert, off phones, no texting except in code, TV on the news and little children settled in a safe zone and with an adult who does not leave them for any reason.
> My children have practiced this or similar their whole lives. Why? because they know I'm right. They have seen me proved right enough and I didn't raise no stupid adults


tirednurse, you have the rally round the castle thing going on real strong. If I ventured a guess I'd say your normal commute passes allot of tsunami signs.But what happens if SHTF happens and you can't rally to the castle keep? What transit preparations are sitting in your vehicle that shall ensure you make it to the castle at all costs?


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

M118LR said:


> tirednurse, you have the rally round the castle thing going on real strong. If I ventured a guess I'd say your normal commute passes allot of tsunami signs.But what happens if SHTF happens and you can't rally to the castle keep? What transit preparations are sitting in your vehicle that shall ensure you make it to the castle at all costs?


I actually do not live in an area normally threatened by tsunamis. Flooding yes, but I have lived here so long I know when it will flood and where. there are several rivers in my area. I of course avoid any roads that would flood. 
As I have said many times before, I am a home health nurse, mostly for the reason that nobody can tell me what my schedule is and where I "should be" at any given time. If I feel the need to go home, I do. My patient's are 99.9% within 20 miles of my home. I actually pass my home several times a day between patient. Perfect job for a prepper don't you think?
As for preparations in my vehicle.... first prep is always regular up keep so I don't break down. never let the tires get old and have a good spare. also keep a basic tool kit and 5 gallon gas can in every vehicle. 
As for my get home bag, I'm pretty sure it is equipped like most except I am smart enough to keep it light enough to be useful and still contain what I need if I can not get home for several days. As I have said before, I know every road around here. every route to avoid, homes I know would be dangerous and those that are safe. If need be I could easily walk home. I live in an area that has a low population and plenty of places to hide if I need to. 
The biggest threat for my area, in my opinion is not weather or nature related. those are easy to deal with. the biggest threat is people. People are stupid and would I be safely home before anyone around this hillbilly hick town decided there was a problem.

If you haven't figured it out yet M118LR, I don't leave things to chance. I think about all angles of every possible situation and cover all my bases.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

My philosophy is to prepare modern and practice primitive. I consider myself as a survivalist and bushcrafter first and a prepper second. I am no expert but I think it's wise to practice the skills and have the knowledge to do without as much as possible. Because even the best plans can fail and you may find yourself without preps and have to rely on your edc... I don't know if preppers are failed survivalists. Most prepper types will know the basics. Some may not be able to be survivalists due to medical reasons. A person that gathers up a buncha survival gear with no knowledge is nothing but a hoarder.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Survivalist do a 1 hour Tv special with a camera crew following them around. In an area that they have prepared for ahead of time kind of like a canned hunt. Preppers do just that they prepare .


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

OR, are survivalists just unprepared potential marauders who wish they had put away more supplies?

Curious minds ....


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## Farva (Aug 26, 2015)

I was a "Survivalist" when I was 13 reading Mel Tappan articles in a magazine. That was awesome! I will survive nuclear war and have a bitchin place in Rogue River annnnddd, Survive! It will be awesome!

40 years later, ehhh, not so much. Kinda grew up. Took a long time in my case, but Hey! No Apocalypse. Whoda thunk it? I am super glad I went ahead and lived my life and had a great time. It would have been a super bummer being holed up in a log bunker in Idaho for the last 40 years skinning rats and making bowfires and crapping in a hole.

Unless you are a Homesteader with a secure place, or have the "Ultimate Bunker", yous gotta take your chances with the rest of us sheeple. Even then, it will be pretty sketchy for you. Dpn't get your hopes up thinking them guns and mres and bartering crap is going to do anything positive for you in TEOTWAWKI. Really. I'm not saying don't try, you should, it's better than laying down and dying. I am saying it will be a lot of planning, and *LUCK*. Go for it. I am. I just ain't going to waste my families life and treasure planning for the apocalypse. Tornado, snowstorm and earthquake is going to have to do for now, and then.

Apocalypse? My guess is that almost everyone here, including myself, doesn't have the cash for that kind of planning and probably never will. Good luck with that though.  Somalia would be a pleasant day in Maui compared to what a lot of you guys are talking about.

As far as being beamed to the north pole. Ehhh? Die, I guess. What's the point of the question? For a dude who claims some 800 years of exotic military service, you do a bad job of "Training", if that's what you want to call it.

How bout you just tell us your arctic life or death experience and we can take your super combat ninja life lesson to heart?

Kinda works better than the ......whatever you are doing here.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Survivalist do a 1 hour Tv special with a camera crew following them around. In an area that they have prepared for ahead of time kind of like a canned hunt. Preppers do just that they prepare .


I'd like to agree with you but there are some people who actually know what they are doing. They are not the ones doing the canned crap on TV. Ever heard of Larry Dean Olson? There are others.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Farva said:


> I was a "Survivalist" when I was 13 reading Mel Tappan articles in a magazine. That was awesome! I will survive nuclear war and have a bitchin place in Rogue River annnnddd, Survive! It will be awesome!
> 
> 40 years later, ehhh, not so much. Kinda grew up. Took a long time in my case, but Hey! No Apocalypse. Whoda thunk it? I am super glad I went ahead and lived my life and had a great time. It would have been a super bummer being holed up in a log bunker in Idaho for the last 40 years skinning rats and making bowfires and crapping in a hole.
> 
> ...


Can I take it that rustic log cabins in the backwoods aren't your idea of a premium vacation home?

Does this mean that your arsenal is limited to hunting rifles only?

Just one of those Military Survival Instruction Training Days. You show up for work and welcome to the scenario. Stranded on a raft, left on a uninhabited island, basically any situation that an aircraft can crash and leave you involved in. Those types of training evolution's took on the premium vacation aspect when compared to abduction/hostage hostile survival training. Just your average day in the cubical Farva, who would care to listen to any of that. How boring could you get.

So what is it I'm doing here? Just taking a moment to remind folks that there isn't much of a warning before you find yourself in a life or death situation. As prepared as you are in the keep of your castle, what if the catastrophe occurs on your way to or from the castle? If you are still working for a living, perhaps you will even be at work when it happens. Plenty of employers don't even allow licensed carriers firearms/weapons of any form on the workplace grounds, so what happens during an active shooter situation when you are at such workplaces? The bottom line is that the only equipment you have with you at all times is your mind, and not many people have the opportunity to take such tests in advance. Tirednurse is correct in that I won't be able to allow you the opportunity to actually experience all the sensations of the possible life & death situations that could but normally don't occur most days. So while the survivalist experience will be lacking (yes you have to honestly survive, it's not TV.) it is not impossible that I can inspire y'all to include a preparation item that might actually assist if/when you end up in a life/death situation. You where a self proclaimed survivalist Farve, is your survival tin in the drawer of your desk at your cubical or would that make you a prepper? But if something happens and you end up on the roof of the building that you work at, even a cheap dime store survival kit has a mirror and a whistle to attract Rescuers. So if tomorrow you stuff an extra survival tin in the vehicle, the desk at the office, your locker at work whatever, in effect I have passed along some of the survival training that your tax dollars paid for. It's not like you carry your survival tin in your pocket everywhere you go, but it would become allot more common a practice if your daily routine involved SAR Operations or incursions into hostile territories. JMHO.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I think prepping is only a way to buy time so that you can figure out how to survive, it's not about sitting back and enjoy,everything you have stashed while the world around continues to crash, it just gives to and chance to assess your situation, from there your will have to rely on your wits and coman sense you can never predict what is going to happen.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

M118LR said:


> Due to the controversial nature of this question, I decided to take the slings and arrows upon myself instead of piggybacking other threads.
> 
> A Survivalist thrives with nothing other than the thought process within thier head. A Prepper hoards/stores/prepares items that will make life easier if stranded in a survival situation. So while a Prepper may need to have learned/spent time/or gleaned from others during a survival situation, the concept of Prepping admits that you are unsure that you could or are unwilling too Survive as a Pure Survivalist!
> 
> Or is Prepping just the fear that those coming after you may not have the skills required to Survive in the harshest of Realities????????????????


In my younger days, words like "cool" and "stud" were used to describe me. After "surviving" for over half a century, experience, skills and stuff have made me a "prepared" person.

Mrs Slippy still thinks I'm cool and studly. That is all.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

After thinking about this a little...

A prepper will have a much easier time if SHTF... at least a prepper that has prepped the skills needed to survive... 

Building and or maintaining shelter
gathering and cleaning water
gathering/growing and processing food
Using and caring for firearms
basic medical knowledge


I can not prepper for all climes and places... I live in PA.. we have COLDDDD winters and warm summers... If I was picked up and dropped in the middle of the desert with no water... I might die.. of course that crap only happens on tv shows or in really odd happenings.. 

I prep wood and have a wood stove
I prep food and seeds
i have extra fuel


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Been watching this thread and thinking..dropped unexpectedly in certain locations, I'm buzzard bait. The question is how long before I'm ready to be served. However, Uncle Sammy gave me a little experience. I've done 14-21 days out of a medium Alice more than once. We had resupply every 3-4 days usually, but you learned to Horde c rations and carry an extra canteen. When I'm working out of town I have a mini get home bag with basic first aid and foodbars to get me to where I stay about two whopping miles from work. My jeep carries an extra gas can of course, but I have a real get home bag ready to go. Because if I'm afoot due to the "EMP" I'm looking at about an 18 day walk. So, I can't carry all my cool prepper stuff for comfort, I'm back to Ranger training . (I were not one, I had to go through a two week orientation because I was working with them.) But loving wife decided I needed a bicycle to keep with me as prepper gear. That way I could get home faster...because I have chores...So I don't think of myself as one category or another, I just want to be the guy alive, so I will use anything to make that happen.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Maine Marine did hit me with an interesting if not a "Devils advocate" reverse the question. Is it possible to become a prepper without having had a survival experience? As there are so few that have gotten the opportunity to truly be in a life/death armed only with your wits Survival Situation, but there are many prepper's, and one of humanities skills is learning lessons from others without having to persevere the agony; perhaps preparing is just a learned trait? 

Once mankind began agriculture and left the hunter gather only lifestyle, could it be that natural selection benefited those that were more able/concerned with preparing for future events than those skilled/lucky enough to survive them? Or has civility disrupted the course of the Natural Selection Process and made the Pure Survivalist a lone wolf to be pushed aside by the guard-dogs? 

But just for fun, and a moment of rhetorical truth. I wonder how many workplaces may have a simple survival tin incorporated somewhere by the end of next week, or how many back seats may have some cordage (with pre-constructed hand loops) that wasn't there prior to reading this thread? Or how many folks didn't take the time to recognize how many possible watercourses and overpasses they transversed during their normal commute. 

I thank all those that took a moment of their time to really think about the what if. I salute all those that took action based upon the conclusions that they drew from the what if. I can't assist all those that were to absorbed to give a moment of their thoughts, but I have come to many of their rescues in the past. 

Glad to hear that Mrs Slippy still thinks you are "cool and studly"! Failing vision + loss of memory combined with the comfort of proven performance, shared goals and experiences tends to rub the rough edges off long term relationships until they run smoothly. JMHO. My Mrs. has somehow learned to just overlook my failings, perhaps it has something to due with the comfort found when I'm already responding to things that make noise in the middle of the darkest night. Perhaps I have an unfair advantage as a Mentor during Her preparatory Survival and SAR Training?


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## Farva (Aug 26, 2015)

M118LR said:


> Can I take it that rustic log cabins in the backwoods aren't your idea of a premium vacation home?
> 
> Does this mean that your arsenal is limited to hunting rifles only?
> 
> ...


So 7 pages in you kind of get to the point with this drivel?

*Snipey:* You get instantly beamed to the north pole, GO! No! You're stupid and I am awesome. Listen to me! I am AWESOME!

*Any other person who would ever be on a "Prepper" board:* You know it is a good idea to have something in your car, workplace, pockets, waistband, ect. You never know what could happen.

Thanks for the new info Bro.

Your resume gets bigger with every thread. Iran, really?

I figure you aint even the finance guy up at battalion/squadron. If you got even 30 seconds in it would be with the Salvation Army. But you're such a braggart know it all self absorbed one way [email protected], you wouldn't have done that either.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Have you heard the latest Chuck Norris joke?

M118LR is so badass Chuck Norris has nightmares about his exploits!


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## Kumarkalliente (May 1, 2015)

A) if you let this a-hole, who has broken into your house, and is now moving towards you ready to snatch you up and take you to the arctic circle . I'm not going to lie i'm going to pull my desk gun and put two to the head. So I'm still Alive.
But lets say he gets the drop on me. If he drops me off awake i beat him up and take all his clothes,actually everything he has(Anyone who is psycho enough to drop me off with no protection is smart enough to have everything I nee
If they drop me there knocked out I'm not waking up and nobody would
B)If you dont think being a survivalist isn't being a prepper or vice versa . A survivalist is an expert in survival. If shtf and you had to grab what you could carry on your back and walk out your back door knowing that you really have know idea where your going and you just had to ditch 80% of your preps cause of weight. can you get to your second location if vehicles dont work or if its an invasion and taking a road means imprisonment? I know I can. I hope its not a invasion my plan is to trade for a canoe(if i dont find the one i want before.Its like a prepper's dream canoe) and using the Ohio River
Talk to your local homeless about being a survivalist and they will open you up to a whole new whole. We sit here on our computers and talk about what they have to do everyday. That's why my presence is spotty because i spend more times in the woods panning gold trying new survival techniques. you can't expect to buy everything you need to survive


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I might miss the mark but here goes.

A survivalist tends to be more of the outdoor minimalist or Bush crafter type. The goal being to last as long as they can in the wilds. If I understand this correctly the survivalist that can last a very long time in the wild with nothing more than what they can carry on their back are good at what they do. 

Preppers tend to be savers and planners. The goal being to insulate themselves from perceived risks and dangers. If I understand this correctly the preppers that can last a very long time on what they've saved up and can operate independently without needing assistance are good at what they do.

Neither are exclusive to the other, a survivalist can plan and save and a prepper can practice living in the wild. Neither is a default to the other.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^^^^ Gee why was this so hard? ....... Labels that's why. Be prepared and watchful while practicing.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I was homeless and lived in the back of an old junk car for 3 months, would that count as being a survivalist, the year was 1971.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

rstanek said:


> I was homeless and lived in the back of an old junk car for 3 months, would that count as being a survivalist, the year was 1971.


Where you merely homeless, or where you also jobless, penniless, and surviving off the land?


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Where you merely homeless, or where you also jobless, penniless, and surviving off the land?


All of above. I was able to catch crayfish,turtles, eat gooseberries, blackberries, wild onions, I also used an old burlap sack to catch some fish.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Sounds like you where doing just fine, what made you give it up?


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I have been living on my own since I was 15, life has presented challenges as well as rewards.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

So is your confidence level high enough that you could/would once again return to life in the "Old Junk", or have you began a systematic preparation program based on your past experience that would allow you more options than you had in 71?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Kumarkalliente said:


> B)If you dont think being a survivalist isn't being a prepper or vice versa .
> 
> A survivalist is an expert in survival.
> 
> If shtf and you had to grab what you could carry on your back and walk out your back door knowing that you really have know idea where your going and you just had to ditch 80% of your preps cause of weight. can you get to your second location if vehicles dont work or if its an invasion and taking a road means imprisonment? I know I can.


Now that I've had some time to pull the meat from this (?) question.

If you are prepared to grab what you could carry on your back and walk out your backdoor, if you have a second location, if SHTF when none of these planned operations are available?

Does that make you a Survivalist if/when you live through those unplanned experiences with only your mind and whatever is available at that instance?

If you ditch 80% of what you have on your person the instant that SHTF, how much weight have you shed?

If you ditch 80% of what you have prepared because it weighed to much, how effective was your preparation?

If you make it to your secondary location in-spite of your prior poor planning and find that it is in a less survivable condition than the location you left, now you are confronted with surviving with only your mind and whatever is at hand. So perhaps in this case you have become a Survivalist due to your failure as a prepper?

As to part A of your post, it is apparent that you have never attended the most rudimentary of service related survival environment training evolution's,but the extensive training that Farva the submariner turned 11 Bang Bang, and ffparamedic are competent instructors on may have influenced your post.

Not everyone has the opportunity to travel to the Philippines and attend Basic Jungle Environment Survival Training, it's costs a couple of Republic Credits to pay for the ride to Alaska and attend the basic Arctic Survival Training, add a few Republic credits more and you might get to New England to experience the basic Cold Weather Environment Survival Training, or travel to California to experience the basic Survival Evasion Resistance & Escape Training, not to mention the prerequisite USMC Rifleman courses and a little Water Survival & Deep Water Survival Training along "The Strand" But those are only the Basic Courses of Training that allow you entrance to some of the more intensive (realistic) courses of training that the Military (your tax dollar) pays for. So perhaps you might take a moment (while the person sleeping beside you in your bed is restrained via duct-tape and zip-strips) to reconsider all your Chuck Norris beaten to death by a little oriental dude moves. JMHO.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

M118LR said:


> So is your confidence level high enough that you could/would once again return to life in the "Old Junk", or have you began a systematic preparation program based on your past experience that would allow you more options than you had in 71?


I prepare for the basics , having simple tools is top of my list, it just make building shelter, foraging for food,etc. much easier. A quality knife, hatchet, hammer,etc. I wouldn't be afraid to do it again, I would rather not but could if I had to. This time around I would be much better prepared. I now have the ability to hunt, before I couldn't. I live in an area with a variety of natural resources for survival, only thing is if the shtf there would be more competition. My wife and I do have a cache, it's 3 days walk from home, we have a BOB that we can make do for a week. If we were to not plan on coming home we would burn everything,not to leave anything that could be used against us later.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

rstanek said:


> I prepare for the basics , having simple tools is top of my list, it just make building shelter, foraging for food,etc. much easier. A quality knife, hatchet, hammer,etc. I wouldn't be afraid to do it again, I would rather not but could if I had to. This time around I would be much better prepared. I now have the ability to hunt, before I couldn't. I live in an area with a variety of natural resources for survival, only thing is if the shtf there would be more competition. My wife and I do have a cache, it's 3 days walk from home, we have a BOB that we can make do for a week. If we were to not plan on coming home we would burn everything,not to leave anything that could be used against us later.


The pretext of this thread, is what could/would you do if this was the moment that whatever disaster (SHTF) came to pass. So what you have on you at the moment is what you would have to Survive. Preppers have an ultimate castle keep that they would strive to get back to, Pure Survivalists would only strive to survive the initial condition. But when/if SHTF wherever you are with whatever you have is what you must make due with to survive the initial incident. Only those that survive the initial incident can move on to step 2.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

M118LR, about the only thing I'm proficient is is smelling a phony assclown. You're just offended I sniffed you out on your first bit of bullshit.

I think I have an idea, instead of coming up with the off the wall threads for you to subtly (not so much) drop your "credentials" in and then reply back to people's post with a few more tidbits. Why don't you just make a long ass 3-4 page post with your "credentials" and "bio" so that we can all be amazed at what a superninjanavysealdeltarangerspecialforces guy you are?


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

tango said:


> Survivalist was the name before prepper became fashionable


Two totally different philosophies! A prepper is someone that prepares and plans. He tries to stock food and tools to assist him in time of need. Whereas a survivalist will take from nature what he needs. When I was a young man I was a survivalist but now that I'm getting older I 'm forced to become more a prepper.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Yes two different philosophies...that compliment each other. 

I prep and I still find the time to go backpacking. I may not approach my wilderness adventures as I did in my youth, but I still go and to me that is important.


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

TacticalCanuck said:


> You could sub out the term "survivalist" in a few sub categories.
> 
> Wilderness survival
> Urban survival
> ...


There are....

Wife Pissed Off Survival
Mother in Law Survival
Credit Card Declined Survival
No clean underwear Survival

I'm also sure there are more! :glee:


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

SittingElf said:


> There are....
> 
> Wife Pissed Off Survival
> Mother in Law Survival
> ...


I get the pissed off wife thing a lot. I really should rethink my loaded weapons philosophy.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Tennessee, not true at all.
Survivalist was the term used to describe those that prepared to survive whatever came along, way back before the prepper label came along
You are probably to young to remember.


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

tango said:


> Tennessee, not true at all.
> Survivalist was the term used to describe those that prepared to survive whatever came along, way back before the prepper label came along
> You are probably to young to remember.


Tango if you are saying that a survivalist and a prepper are the same then you're the young one. Can a survivalist be a prepper yes can a prepper be a survivalist yes but they are not the same. Each has its own meaning. For me I'm a survivalist first, bush crafter second and a prepper third. And yes the prepper nomenclature is new but it doesn't replace the others meaning. The outsiders are the ones that paint us with a broad brush because they are ones that are ignorant.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

M118LR said:


> Due to the controversial nature of this question, I decided to take the slings and arrows upon myself instead of piggybacking other threads.
> A Survivalist thrives with nothing other than the thought process within thier head. A Prepper hoards/stores/prepares items that will make life easier if stranded in a survival situation. So while a Prepper may need to have learned/spent time/or gleaned from others during a survival situation, the concept of Prepping admits that you are unsure that you could or are unwilling too Survive as a Pure Survivalist!
> Or is Prepping just the fear that those coming after you may not have the skills required to Survive in the harshest of Realities????????????????


Both realize that society can disintegrate, then it might be do or die. I don't know what it would be like in a meltdown, except that it would be savage.
And it is best to prepare if you can, and to keep in mind that you could be killed. Because your neighbors or the neighborhood, will be looking for food.

My plans are to hunker down and should Survivalists show up, trying to take what I have, there is going to be fireworks.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

In my opinion, a prepper is one that prepares one self to try to maintain a lifestyle during a social collapse or natural disaster, a survivalist is one that can "survive" on not much more than ones wits and knowledge of his ones environment .


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

rstanek said:


> In my opinion, a prepper is one that prepares one self to try to maintain a lifestyle during a social collapse or natural disaster, a survivalist is one that can "survive" on not much more than ones wits and knowledge of his ones environment .


I think that's a really good distinction rstanek.

I'd also add a timeline.
Survivalists tend to live on a 72 hour clock.
Preppers attempt to prepare for subsistence beyond the 72 hour clock.

Location (at time zero of the SHTF incident) is more critical to preppers than it is to survivalists, due to the nature of their thinking.
But a prepper in thier planned location (at time zero of the SHTF incident) should have an easier existence for a longer period of time provided that they have correctly prepared for the incident that has occurred.

There just seems to be allot more if's involved with preparing, but on the other-hand there seems to be allot less creature comforts involved with surviving.

tirednurse exemplifies the planning and preparation required of preppers, (JMHO) but what happens if the castle keep is the center of the SHTF incidence and becomes the most difficult spot to survive on? Or next to worst case scenario tirednurse and all the clan are at the furthest reaches of the "PLAN" at time zero of the SHTF incident? If it isn't flood, what about fire? If it isn't either of these what about a hostile takeover by a larger better armed and better coordinated band? There just seems to be allot more at risk when you have invested the energy and plunder required for planned disasters, and the consequences of even survivable miscalculations are further increased. JMHO.

I started this off expecting to get a bit of flack, so the name calling and non-thought provoking (you are a chest beating ninja) posts where expected. But the reality of time zero SHTF is not something that many even consider (plan for) more or less experience. If I shook your tree and gave you pause to reflect upon what condition of readiness you had at the exact moment of time zero, or how it may toss a monkey wrench into your planned evolution, then perhaps it may assist you encase you are not at your highest level or location should Time Zero of SHTF actually happen. Thanks for your time and thoughts.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

People, do some research on the survivalist movement.
They are both planning for the same things.
The survivalist movement started in the 70's.
Prepper became the "correct' ( don't know why or how) name years later.
Besides-- what does the name matter?


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

As far as I'm concerned, the two are identical. Not exactly the same, but close. A survivalist is someone who has stockpiles of goods, but who can be dropped into the bush with only their EDC stuff and be able to survive. A prepper is someone who is not at that point yet, so are stocking up on the essentials while learning to become the survivalist, so when the day comes, they won't be totally screwed. That's just me though.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

ffparamedic said:


> M118LR, about the only thing I'm proficient is is smelling a phony assclown. You're just offended I sniffed you out on your first bit of bullshit.
> 
> I think I have an idea, instead of coming up with the off the wall threads for you to subtly (not so much) drop your "credentials" in and then reply back to people's post with a few more tidbits. Why don't you just make a long ass 3-4 page post with your "credentials" and "bio" so that we can all be amazed at what a superninjanavysealdeltarangerspecialforces guy you are?


Attempted to accommodate your request, but somehow just the list of operations that you would need to google which authorized campaign ribbons got cut off the air! Sorry.

Perhaps an invitation to the American Legion or VFW?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Farva said:


> So 7 pages in you kind of get to the point with this drivel?
> 
> *Snipey:* You get instantly beamed to the north pole, GO! No! You're stupid and I am awesome. Listen to me! I am AWESOME!
> 
> ...


Beginning of Public Apology to Farva.


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## Farva (Aug 26, 2015)

M118LR said:


> Just awaiting your bubble-headed best response. Please don't disappoint me with an intelligent post. (contrary to the dribble and rot you previously posted)


The only dudes I have ever met who tried to impress me, or anyone else in the room with their military service, were either kicked put in bootcamp, or never in.

Which one are you?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Farva said:


> The only dudes I have ever met who tried to impress me, or anyone else in the room with their military service, were either kicked put in bootcamp, or never in.
> 
> Which one are you?


I apologize for responding over the top.


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## Farva (Aug 26, 2015)

M118LR said:


> As your best day in service was less than irrelevant, if you had one. Impressing you is far below what ran down a bar girls thigh, so when you accomplish something of any relevance,I think I have given you far to demanding a task for your abilities. Guess I'll just stop here cubical dude destined to be a casualty during the Seattle Tsunami event. Hope all those putting their lives in your hands understand what a failure you shall be. All the other members here, forgive my unabashed honesty. Thank You.


I also have never met a veteran who would denigrate another veterans service.

You're super high speed. What's your SOCNET username? I figure you would be reminiscing with your old buddies over there. They are the real deal BTDT dudes. I'm sure they would be interested in your exploits. As would all of us.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Farva said:


> I also have never met a veteran who would denigrate another veterans service.
> 
> You're super high speed. What's your SOCNET username? I figure you would be reminiscing with your old buddies over there. They are the real deal BTDT dudes. I'm sure they would be interested in your exploits. As would all of us.


Once again as a Veteran It is my responsibility to try and take care of those that you leave behind. I apologize again Farva.


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## Farva (Aug 26, 2015)

M118LR said:


> What are your wishes for those that you were not able to defend or protect that you left benind, as a Veteran I promise to take care of those that you leave behind. Normally it's due to your sacrifice, in this case it is solely due to your incompetence and arrogance. But I'll take it upon myself to see that the folks that put their lives in your hands are cared for so long as I live. It's a one time offer Farva, PM me with the particulars, what makes you think you have read my posts on SOCNET?
> 
> As to degrading an others service, don't whine long after the die has been cast.
> 
> Now after all your BS, I'll take care of those that you fail for nothing more than a PM and a copy of any DD214 you might have. Got any other questions about my service?


I'm not the one making the outrageous claims you that you are. How about you pm the ole dd214 over here? And, how about that username so we can read your posts on SOCNET?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Farva said:


> I'm not the one making the outrageous claims you that you are. How about you pm the ole dd214 over here? And, how about that username so we can read your posts on SOCNET?


I happen to have 7 DD214's Farva. It wasn't an outrageous claim, it was a promise to take care of those that another service member left behind. Sorry that George decided you didn't make the requirements to post on SOCNET. 
I give, you win, kiss your loved ones goodnight for me will you.

Antagonism should not be meet with further antagonism, I once again apologize.


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## Farva (Aug 26, 2015)

To every else who would read this thread.

I'm normally not this kind of asshole. But what this person is doing borders on stolen valor, and it pisses me off.

I'll stop. Sorry. Read snipeys posts at your own risk.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

I totally agree Farva....

He has taken it to PM with me, i've offered him a personal public apology if he vets himself to some guy's that have actually been there and done that.

So far all he's done is spout non sensical bullshit.

Farva do I know you from another site? LF?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

M118LR said:


> As your best day in service was less than irrelevant, if you had one. Impressing you is far below what ran down a bar girls thigh, so when you accomplish something of any relevance,I think I have given you far to demanding a task for your abilities. Guess I'll just stop here cubical dude destined to be a casualty during the Seattle Tsunami event. Hope all those putting their lives in your hands understand what a failure you shall be. All the other members here, forgive my unabashed honesty. Thank You.


I have preferred to not weigh in on this crap, but I now will.

You seem to be wanting to do nothing more than set up circumstances where you have the ability to tout your awesomeness. None, and I mean none of the sure-nuff warriors I have known, from spec-ops to Delta to Seal to aviation 160th, would ever carry themselves in reality as you do on the board. I seriously doubt they'd be prone to drunken glory-hounding as you are.

Furthermore, this less than relevant veteran wouldn't contemplate suggesting another vet's service was irrelevant. Again, I know no veteran who would say such a thing.

All you seem to want to do is convince all of us that you are the baddest of all baddasses. Pardon all us mere mortals if we are growing fatigued with your desire to be viewed as a combat god.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Denton said:


> I have preferred to not weigh in on this crap, but I now will.
> 
> You seem to be wanting to do nothing more than set up circumstances where you have the ability to tout your awesomeness. None, and I mean none of the sure-nuff warriors I have known, from spec-ops to Delta to Seal to aviation 160th, would ever carry themselves in reality as you do on the board. I seriously doubt they'd be prone to drunken glory-hounding as you are.
> 
> ...


I am sorry Denton that with the confidential knowledge you have had access to, you didn't conceive that I fully offered my lifelong services to Farva's family. I notice that you had nothing to say when my time and performance in service was questioned. I gave everyone the short list of operations that I was an active participant in. Do you dare to do at least the same? Combat God, get real. There are nothing more than combat survivors. Now if you consider things that happened decades ago to make someone a Badass, perhaps it is time you reconsider your definition of the term. But I am not a Super Moderator on this forum, so perhaps I should not speak. In the event that it is sacrilegious to speak freely and the truth, I am guilty.

To all the other members, I am sorry if this thread has wasted your time. Feel free to remove it Denton if it is offensive. You have my permission.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

M118LR said:


> I am sorry Denton that with the confidential knowledge you have had access to, you didn't conceive that I fully offered my lifelong services to Farva's family. I notice that you had nothing to say when my time and performance in service was questioned. I gave everyone the short list of operations that I was an active participant in. Do you dare to do at least the same? Combat God, get real. There are nothing more than combat survivors. Now if you consider things that happened decades ago to make someone a Badass, perhaps it is time you reconsider your definition of the term. But I am not a Super Moderator on this forum, so perhaps I should not speak. In the event that it is sacrilegious to speak freely and the truth, I am guilty.
> 
> To all the other members, I am sorry if this thread has wasted your time. Feel free to remove it Denton if it is offensive. You have my permission.


Regardless of your service, nobody enjoys the writing of a braggart who sets up scenarios so that he can twist and flip them for his own glory.

That I am a moderator on this site gives me no special protection, nor does it give me powers I will use for personal interest or gratification. I find it weak that you brought that up.

Yes, I have knowledge the others do not regarding you, but what I know doesn't excuse your continued desire to be viewed as a combat god.

I'll not thank you for your service as you merely served the complex as I and the rest of us did. I'll simply say, brother, think about how you sound and realize you have brought the negative vibes on yourself.

For the most part, this place is forgiving. You don't have to continue down the same path of self-aggrandizement.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Denton if you're vouching for his service I'll apologize for the times I questioned it.

I won't apologize for calling him out on acting like an assclown.

As I've said before that's my biggest regret in life was not being able to join because of my heart problem, I hope somehow I have given back with a few of the things I've done over my life.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Denton said:


> Regardless of your service, nobody enjoys the writing of a braggart who sets up scenarios so that he can twist and flip them for his own glory.
> 
> That I am a moderator on this site gives me no special protection, nor does it give me powers I will use for personal interest or gratification. I find it weak that you brought that up.
> 
> ...


Sorry that you perceive things in such a way Denton, for the lessons I learned long ago have no particular value to me any longer. If I can share them without the need for others to experience them in any manner than a moment of their thoughts, I felt it may be of some use. I began this by stating that it would be controversial, if you should view actual experience as being a braggart perhaps you give my actions to much credit. Combat performed decades ago has no bearing on today's Battlefield, I expected you to comprehend this above many of the others. I can no longer run faster, jump higher, or swim farther then today's Warriors. So I don't understand your combat god references. Nobody, repeat nobody, has any reason to believe an Old Man is a combat god. But everyone here can take a moment to envision that they might be outside their planned comfort zone at the moment that SHTF is at time zero. How that makes me a combat god I have no idea, what it makes me is someone that has been in the wrong place at the wrong time and was just stubborn enough to have not quit when faced with it. Combat God's don't exist, you know that as well if not better than anyone else here. Combat Survivors on the hand fill the Halls of the VFW and Am Legion, and folks come to eat hotcakes with US on Veterans Day every year. But I've typed enough. Watch your six at the moment disaster strikes, hope all your plans work for the best.


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## Blendingin (Feb 13, 2016)

tirednurse said:


> this is a question I ask all the time. Maybe not in the same words, but we also have different experiences. I don't think there is a ways to teach people to understand what they have not experienced. I could write a book about what makes me a "prepper", but in reality the reason is because I'm afraid. I fear the suffering of what could happen, and what I can not control. I try to do what I can to help me control what can hurt me.
> 
> You will never teach someone that.


WOW! If nothing else sticks about this ongoing post, this should:

 "I fear the suffering of what could happen, and what I can not control. I try to do what I can to help me control what can hurt me. " 

Isn't this what being a prepper is all about? Minimize and control the potential suffering? We all have something or multiple reasons we prep, but it all comes down to protecting ourself against suffering and danger to ourselves.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Farva said:


> To every else who would read this thread.
> 
> I'm normally not this kind of asshole. But what this person is doing borders on stolen valor, and it pisses me off.
> 
> I'll stop. Sorry. Read snipeys posts at your own risk.


I have also behaved poorly and apologize to all those that I may have offended. I am sorry if I pushed you to far farve, but you do not need to worry about any stolen valor. I shall attempt to refrain from pissing you off in the future. Was this enough of a public apology Farva?


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