# Need Some Info.



## Jae (Dec 20, 2012)

I myself have shot 22's before I own a GTO CORE 15 5.56 AR and a S&W M&P 9mm .. I was thinking of getting a 22, maybe but I don't see much of a reason I have read that if you wear enough layers a 22 round sometimes won't even break skin. Is this true and if I am to get a 22 .. what should I get rifle wise? H&K...? SMG ...? what kind.

Just looking to expand. Not sure what direction I should go with this.

Any word would be appreciated


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

Jae said:


> I myself have shot 22's before I own a GTO CORE 15 5.56 AR and a S&W M&P 9mm .. I was thinking of getting a 22, maybe but I don't see much of a reason I have read that if you wear enough layers a 22 round sometimes won't even break skin. Is this true and if I am to get a 22 .. what should I get rifle wise? H&K...? SMG ...? what kind.
> 
> Just looking to expand. Not sure what direction I should go with this.
> 
> Any word would be appreciated


I have not shot at any target through layers of clothing, but I have hunted with .22 Long Rifle since I was old enough to carry a rifle. Some .22 LR can reach very high foot per second speeds, such as CCI Velocitor rounds. But I would not recommend it for self-defense, ever.

The Mossad (Israeli intelligence agency) reportedly uses .22LR suppressed weapons for carrying out assassinations. The Israeli military also uses .22 LR in combat in urban settings -- I have seen photos of these in use by Israeli defense forces. I assume these are used because of overpenetration concerns in counter-sniping.

.22 LR works very well against small game -- rabbits, squirrels, etc., and humanely and ethically dispatch such animals with minimal damage to meat tissue.

The best .22 LR, in my opinion, is the Ruger 10/22. I own two of them, one hunting version (stainless steel carbine length) and one target model (hammer forged bull barrel with a match chamber). These guns hold ten rounds in Ruger's very reliable rotary magazine, and you can get the new BX-25 25-round magazines for them for range or competition use. They are very useful out to about 50 yards, but run out of energy downrange after that. The Ruger 10/22 would be my recommendation. I would recommend you buy a target model (around $400), or a tactical model (yes, they make one, seriously) because these have match chambers. Be advised, though, the match chambers will not take the "hotter" rounds because the chamber is machined so precisely to enhance accuracy, so keep that in mind.

S&W makes the M&P 22 which mimics an AR-15 in many ways, and these cost around $400-ish. Might want to look at those since you have an AR-15 already.


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## Gallo Pazzesco (Dec 22, 2012)

Verteidiger said:


> I have not shot at any target through layers of clothing, but I have hunted with .22 Long Rifle since I was old enough to carry a rifle. Some .22 LR can reach very high foot per second speeds, such as CCI Velocitor rounds. But I would not recommend it for self-defense, ever.
> 
> The Mossad (Israeli intelligence agency) reportedly uses .22LR suppressed weapons for carrying out assassinations. The Israeli military also uses .22 LR in combat in urban settings -- I have seen photos of these in use by Israeli defense forces. I assume these are used because of overpenetration concerns in counter-sniping.


Agreed with just about everything you typed - but I am compelled to ask, if I may?

1 - Why not use high velocity 22LR like the Velocitor for self defense, "ever?"

2 - The IDF uses 10-22s, among others, for counter-sniper and counter-riot rifles. Subsonic, suppressed, etc., yes. I'm not too sure about Mossad though? Anyways, yes, when I was in Israel, attached, for awhile I did see their counter-snipers using converted 10-22s to pick-off some of those pesky little Hamas guys hiding behind the rock chunkers. Ruger has recently began using some of the photos that came out of there as sales tools MASH HERE ... I don't think the Israelis like it too much, but Ruger is doing it anyways.










BTW, I too agree - I've got a couple of Ruger 10-22s and I recently invested in some of the BX High Cap mags. I'm not sure they are all that much better than the old steel lipped hotlips mags, but they are backed by Ruger and guaranteed to function flawlessly.

I actually like the Marlin Model 60 better, but the tube magazine requires some extra care.

You gotta spend a lot of money bubbarizing a Ruger 10-22 to make it a decent shooter imho. Replace the barrel, replace the trigger, get an oversized quick mag release and an oversized bolt release. Plus the bolt will not lock-back when the round is empty. But I read what you are saying - they are rugged little rifles.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Just for knowledge purposes...a Threat Level II bullet proof vest which will stop most 9mm rounds reliably will let a 22 long rifle of high velocity come right on through and so will a military Flak Vest...I know I have personally tested that idea enough to know its NOT a good idea! Just some food for thought there.

I would not rely on a 22 to stop a hostile threat in a defensive situation. Yes it can serious injury and if a round is well placed kill, but it will likely not do so quickly enough to save you from serious injury in a confrontation. In San Diego I arrested a guy who after taking 10 rounds of 22 rim fire to the chest from a pistol, still raped his female victim and still had to be chased down and wrestled into a pair of hand cuff when we arrived on scene. I think the only reason it took only 2 of us to wrestle him into cuffs is that by that point I think he was starting to run a little low on blood.

What the 22 rim fire is exceptional at is being a low recoiling, low report, small game getter or pest control gun. Its an extremely cheap chambering to teach shooting skills to a new shooter or help experienced shooters improve their skills. I wont even get into how much plain fun it is to just get out and shoot the dawg crap out of one and not have to break the bank in the process. EVERYONES gun collection should include a 22 rifle or pistol of one flavor or another. Where I part ways with most is I prefer a Bolt Action or a Revolver instead of the auto loading pistols and rifles due to the variety of ammunition loads they can function with where as a auto loader may not function well or at all with. There are a lot of reasons why one may want to use a CB Cap, Short or shot shell and those dont work well in auto loaders.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

Here is a link to the Mossad using .22s for its missions:

Tactical Life Israeli Mossad .22 LRS

As to why I would not ever recommend .22 LRs for self-defense is (as Lunatic Fringe relates in his post) because although a .22 will definitely poke a hole in a person, if the shot does not hit anything vital, it will take a long time for a person to succumb to the injury. In short, they stay in the fight, and that is not what I want to happen in the extreme event that I would have to use a gun in self-defense.

That is not the same as saying these rounds will not work. I just would not recommend them for such purposes. Your results may be different.


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## J.T. (Nov 10, 2012)

Another recent thread on this forum discussing the merits of the .22.... http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-prepper-survival-talk/1928-maybe-better.html


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

If you're thinking of buying a 22lr, you best be looking to get some ammo for it, like yesterday was even too late.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> If you're thinking of buying a 22lr, you best be looking to get some ammo for it, like yesterday was even too late.


Aint that about the truth! I was on patrol last night and hit three different wally worlds and the only 22 rim fire ammo they had was Shorts, CCI Shorts, WRM and 17 HMR and even those were in very limited supply! Been that way here now for about a month or so.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Every preper should have a couple good 22's in the vault. For many reasons.
The shelf will be full of 22 again they are cheap and easy to make I would not worry a lot about that yet.
Of course we do have 4 years of dodging Obama ahead of us.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

22s have so many good uses don't let the lack of power stop you. Let's face the reality evasion in some instances is far mor critical then fighting and that can mean a lean and fast load. An SR22 or similar small 22LR pistol and you can easily carry a hundred plus rounds without a weight or space prob. Try that with the vintage 1911 45!


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## D"artagnan (Nov 18, 2012)

i jumped to 22 mag in the 90s and 17 hmr in 2009 
goes through tire rim 
gets critters out to 150 yds 
and still light and cheap 
D"


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## Jae (Dec 20, 2012)

Thank you all for the Information. the information has drawn me to the conclusion to Purchase a .22 now my next question .. brand or type?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

My next 22 will be the Ruger 10/22. Decent rifle for a decent price.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Depends on your needs...

I dont intend to use one for defense. I will be using it for small game getting and plinking, marksmanship skill building and pest control. So for me I need something accurate and that can digest a wide range of loads from CB Caps to Shot Shell loads and everything inbetween. So for me the choice is obviously a Bolt Action rifle. For you it might be a Ruger 10/22 or a Marlin Model 60 or Henry Lever Action. There are dozens of great guns out there that might suit your needs. Find one and get it!


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