# A Couple Years ol Solar



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

So its been just over 2 years since I installed my solar system. For those that care it is 3750watts of panels, 48v battery bank at 390 amps.

Here are the things I'd like to pass on.

1. Get a bigger generator than you think you need, I started out with a 4400 watt LPG generator and it works fine when I need it IF you don't mind running it several hours a day. This cheap generator burns at least 2 gallons per hour and so far hasn't let me down except it is noisy. I recently put out the money for a ONAN 13kw generator that can't be heard running if you are over 50 feet away and burns 1.5 GPH of propane and puts off obviously 3x the amps so my run time on really cloudy days has gone from 6 hours to 2 hours saving a lot of gas. The added benefit is the quality generators will last thousands of hours where the 4400 watt one I have is maybe 500 hours?

2. Talk amps not watts, everything about a solar system and everything you watch is amps. i.e. your charge controller tells you how many amps are going into the battery bank, the battery bank is rated in amps, the inverter output is in amps, so wrap your head around amps and forget completely about watts, it makes things a lot easier to understand.

3. Get a NATURAL GAS powered clothes dryer, I have the luxury of having both natural gas and my buried propane tank, but I upgraded my clothes dryer to natural gas instead of LPG because SHTF I am not wasting my precious propane to dry clothes. Not having the option means it will not happen. 2nd point is if you want to have a chance of being off grid on solar you can't use an electric dryer. If all you have is propane then make the switch and SHTF cut the propane off and suffer the Mrs's wrath.

4. Get a natural gas cook stove, every NG stove has a small card on the back with LPG (propane) jets that you can easily convert the stove over. SHTF I want my stove/oven for cooking at least initially for convenience, later we can revert to cooking over wood. 2nd point is if you want to have a chance of being off grid on solar you can't use an electric cook stove.

5. Install quality lightning protection,






I'm not sure if a non-grid tied system with a 22,00 volt / 40,000 amp surge protection will survive an EMP but my guess is better than most. These surge protectors not only survive that treatment but are still protecting, think about it.

6. I read a lot before I got into solar and here are the 2 golden rules:
a. Instead of expensive tracking arrays or even manually adjusted mounting systems, put that money into a larger fixed system and you will save money. For instance if you need to spend $2000 for a adjustable solar pole that you move around to take maximum benefit by having optimal solar angle, just put more fixed panels up spending the same money and you will break even, have less installation costs, and less labor.
b. Don't screw around with wind or hydro, they are not cost effective 90% of the time. They have moving parts which wear out and need high maintenance, put that money into more solar panels.

As has been mentioned before on many postings here, half of it is just learning where your power goes and reducing that. For instance I moved my 2x chest freezers into the garage 2 years back, as I have a lot of power with 12+ hours of sunlight in the summer it doesn't matter that the garage is warmer than my basement because I have power to burn. But in the winter with 5-6 hours of sunlight I don't have power to burn, which works perfect as my freezers are in the garage that is at this moment about 12 degrees, so they don't run much this time of year. That is the type of thinking that makes you solar independent.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks for the extremely valuable information and insight, Montana Rancher. Much appreciated!


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Very impressive Montana. And here I was proud of my solar security lighting. LOL. I need to look more closely at solar options going forward.


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## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

Excellent read. Thanks for sharing from experience!

1895gunner


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

GREAT POST Montana Rancher! Thank you sir.


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

What is your backup for Natural Gas?


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks MR!!


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## XMULE (Nov 8, 2015)

Nice post, and congrats on a job well done. I'm looking to do the same, it's good to see positive experience.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Nice,,, very realistic advice


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

I'm still grid tied and when I installed my 4500 watt solar system I considered moving to propane for the clothes dryer and oven but instead left them on the grid along with my HVAC. Everything else, including the toaster oven, microwave, well pump, and her hair dryer I put on the solar system (water heater is now propane).

So far it works well (system is only a month old) and if the grid goes down everything except the stove, clothes dryer, and central air will work. Grid down and I've got ceiling fans and a whole house attic fan on the solar system along with 2 wood stoves.

You're right about changing to more energy efficient devices. By replacing a few older appliances and LED lighting I reduced my electric power requirements by 35% before installing the solar system. I still need to replace 20 florescent tube bulbs (garage and kitchen) but they are expensive to replace and require my rewiring the fixtures (30 minutes per fixture). In the garage I've got 3 rechargeable battery led motion lights that allow me to get wood for the stoves so I rarely use the florescent ceiling lights.

Flipping a breaker allows the grid to power the house but a little conservation (wash clothes and dishes on sunny days) has allowed me to stay almost totally off grid the last month. My 48v 395 amp/hr battery bank is a little small so I've allowed the grid to recharge battery bank twice the last month. I intend to wire my 3500 watt generator in (wire and breakers already purchased) for backup but at this point the grid is my backup.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Just curious, how long before you get return from your investment? Looking at the financial, just not only shtf/no grid scenario.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Assuming you do the labor so no labor costs about 10-11 years if you don't have any batteries but are 100% grid tied. The cost of replacing batteries every 7 years (average quality batteries) and battery charge controller makes it a break even proposition at best.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Wow..kindly quit scaring me like that. Each time I see this post it seems to say..two years of sober.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Thank you for posting up the information in this thread.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Gimble said:


> What is your backup for Natural Gas?


As I mentioned in the article, NG is my primary but I have 1000 gallons of LPG for backup. My water heater is NG but I replaced it 1 year ago and the one I have now has the LPG burner as an alternative. So IF I decided hot water is a priority I can switch out the burner and have that as well.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

1skrewsloose said:


> Just curious, how long before you get return from your investment? Looking at the financial, just not only shtf/no grid scenario.


It depends on your energy costs but 10-12 years is a good guess. But if you think about it, investing 20k into a solar system and it pays for itself in 10 years is way better than the current money market rate by a factor of 4.

The obvious upside is having the power when everyone else does not.


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