# Investing like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff with Scottrade



## thomasdangerpowers

I'm sure those of you who understand Austrian economics understand what is happening to the dollar and that have to prepare by stocking up on food, water, medical supplies guns and ammo but what about then it is all over? the Great Depression created more millionaires in american history than any other time because many people was what was coming and prepared for it. the Greater Depression is coming and soon learn to protect your money and even make some. as the Dollar loses value and the world turns to hard money you want to earn part of a company that mines money like gold, silver, copper, uranium and so forth. the problem is the only Austrian economics based brokerage firms requires 25,000 so start up. heres another way to get in on the market no that these stock prices have falled to 2008 levels and some at decade low prices right now!


----------



## Montana Rancher

Zzzzzz

I lost interest after they video suggested keeping money in the stock market.

With the DOW at record highs I suggest being liquid and buying in after the crash.

That is after you have your 2 years of food, ammo etc.

Anyone having stocks, 401k, sep IRA etc at this point is a moron or not a real prepper.

Flame off you have been warned.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

Montana Rancher said:


> Zzzzzz
> 
> I lost interest after they video suggested keeping money in the stock market.
> 
> With the DOW at record highs I suggest being liquid and buying in after the crash.
> 
> That is after you have your 2 years of food, ammo etc.
> 
> Anyone having stocks, 401k, sep IRA etc at this point is a moron or not a real prepper.
> 
> Flame off you have been warned.


so during hyperinflation it is better to be a millionaire in Germany or a trillionire in Zimbabwe? hey moron the dow may be at an all time high but the purchasing powers is at a record low. sure the nominal value is up but you buy less gold, silver, oil food or just about anything else. as always I'm sure you didn't even listen to the vid before saying it is flawed. the Great Depression created more millionaires in American history than any other point because many people saw it coming and prepared for it. the Greater Depression can create even more. sure you can stock pile 2 years of supplies, I am doing so but what if you have to bug out? did you forget about that? are you gonna have a cabin in the woods that also has 2 years of supplies? I see this thing lasting maybe up to a decade what will you do after 2 years huh? The place to invest is emerging markets, mining and energy. If the U.S. crashes the rest of the world will have more to consume and it will most likely be with "Real" or "hard money" precious metals have historically either kept up with inflation or out preformed inflation. I'm talking about buying a part of a company that pays dividends, has a higher dividend yield and senior companies that can most likely survive the market volatility. you will run out of supplies or forget to prep something or did you forget that? sure you can barter or learn a trade but a steady income stream can always help. its literally owning a gold mine, what do people use as money when a currency fails...Gold. so you would be paid in the next reserve currency backed up by gold. I an a prepper I have food, water, medical supplies, gear, I understand Austrian economics but most of all I have an open mind.

P.S.
moron I didn't say anything about a 401K or IRA like your bank account, S.S., unemployment, CD's and bonds they are denominated in Dollars.....you know the same currency that is being devalued? I'm talking about owning a part of a company in metals not only for there monetary value but technological applications as well. maybe you should listen to my advise before you say it is flawed. it seems the "preppers"
on this sight are the most close minded its almost unbelievable I always get the same few guy bashing advise I know they didn't listen to by the comments


----------



## Inor

Stocks, even foreign stocks, are denominated in dollars (or some other fiat currency) too. Also, depending on the foreign country they are also subject to confiscation by whatever third world cesspool government happens to come to power - a la oil companies in Venezuela.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

correct they are demonimated in dollars because we have the reserve currency maybe someday it will be demonimated in Yaun same as gold or oil would be. the main thing is to own tangible assets true they can confiscate Stocks Gold or even food and suppies during a national emergency but that doesn't mean its not a good idea to prepare. also if they were to right out confiscate personal possessions it would be a red flag for the rest of the world NOT to invest in the U.S. our leaders would lead a poverty stricken wasteland not the kind of place they would want to live in they would be like the storywhere the prince who tries to win the pricess with the tin box. owning a part of a company that produces something the world needs and pays out dividends would produce a steady income stream that at least keeps up with inflation or if we go to a gold standard prices would drop very low but no one would have any money......exept for those who plan ahead. China is hoarding Gold, Silver, Copper, nickel rare earths and other base metals and are pushing hard for a commodity or even a "basket of goods" based currency. and they cannot confiscate without letting the world know its a dangerous place to invest your money. Besides the for sure thing is that our bank accounts are lossing value and will be worthless anyway its worth a try to build a future in the new America whatever it may be


----------



## Ripon

These words just stood out at me, and I knew nothing else written mattered.



thomasdangerpowers said:


> so during hyperinflation it is better to be a millionaire in Germany or a trillionire in Zimbabwe? *hey moron* the dow may be at an all time high but the purchasing powers is at a record low. sure the nominal value is up but you buy less gold, silver, oil food or just about anything else. as always I'm sure you didn't even listen to the vid before saying it is flawed. the Great Depression created more millionaires in American history than any other point because many people saw it coming and prepared for it. the Greater Depression can create even more. sure you can stock pile 2 years of supplies, I am doing so but what if you have to bug out? did you forget about that? are you gonna have a cabin in the woods that also has 2 years of supplies? I see this thing lasting maybe up to a decade what will you do after 2 years huh? The place to invest is emerging markets, mining and energy. If the U.S. crashes the rest of the world will have more to consume and it will most likely be with "Real" or "hard money" precious metals have historically either kept up with inflation or out preformed inflation. I'm talking about buying a part of a company that pays dividends, has a higher dividend yield and senior companies that can most likely survive the market volatility. you will run out of supplies or forget to prep something or did you forget that? sure you can barter or learn a trade but a steady income stream can always help. its literally owning a gold mine, what do people use as money when a currency fails...Gold. so you would be paid in the next reserve currency backed up by gold. I an a prepper I have food, water, medical supplies, gear, I understand Austrian economics but most of all I have an open mind.
> 
> *P.S.
> moron* I didn't say anything about a 401K or IRA like your bank account, S.S., unemployment, CD's and bonds they are denominated in Dollars.....you know the same currency that is being devalued? I'm talking about owning a part of a company in metals not only for there monetary value but technological applications as well. maybe you should listen to my advise before you say it is flawed. it seems the "preppers"
> on this sight are the most close minded its almost unbelievable I always get the same few guy bashing advise I know they didn't listen to by the comments


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

did the exact same word in the comment that I responded to stand out as well? doesn't seem right to point fingers at only one of us. I used the exact same word I was called and defended my point from statments I did not say. I'm the sort that doesn't mind stooping down to other people levels. I only only mean as little or as much disrespect as the guys calling names out there. I mean no disrespect to you or the rest of you. I just will call it as I see it and call people by names which is usually much worse, If I get banned doing so, so be it. I'm just trying to help others who understand what is happening to the dollar. If the ostrich ingores the loin by sticking his head in the sand the outcome is the same. At least listen to what I have to say I'm trying to save as many of my fellow Americans as I can, we will need to rebuild our country and it will take planning ahead, we can't do it with barter items. just because I wont take someones crap doesn't mean I don't understand economics or how to hedge


----------



## PalmettoTree

Ron Paul's portfolio is the most ignorant collection of stock I have ever come across.

Regardless of what happens with the dollar there will be a demand for goods and services.

Ron Paul could never explain how to revert to his PMs backed currency.

Granted we are in a transition period for world currencies.

The biggest problem is not with the increased money supply but the lack of value individuals must put forth for the dollars. This is what hurts a currency because it sets a zero value bast for the currency.

Paul's problem is his profound ignorance regarding the function of money.

Regardless of who you believe or how you chose to invest do not follow Ron Paul's cult.


----------



## Denton

I'm with the Rancher. I didn't watch the video at all after reading the opening post. All I needed to see was the name of a brokerage firm to realize I needed no part in this.

As you should have learned in the last several months, not even your savings account is yours, as they can legally lose the fiat currency you think you own and they are not liable for the loss. That is to say, if it isn't in your hands, you have nothing.

I wish Ron and Peter all the luck in the world with regard to their investing. Matter of fact, I have some federal reserve notes in an account and enjoy trading as a pseudo-hobby, but I do not really expect to ever see them put to my use.

Good luck to all in their investing ambitions, but all had better take Montana Rancher's advice on preparation, too.


----------



## Ripon

The difference is you called a trusted and respected poster a moron while he said those believing in the fiat market (a generslity) morons. I don't agree with either of you but I am not about to start tossing out insults at you - I don't care about insults at general populations - take liberals for example.

I oft think the prepper community is too anti fiat / market. It can hyper inflate and guess what - it can deflate too. What will you do then if all your investments are hyperinflation protected? I've seen people say invest only in this or that. Well let's look at those things:

1) land - its only yours if you pay the taxes and those can change. 
2) precious metals - they took gold once 
3) guns - subject to regulations, taxes are possible, and confiscation unlikely but you know some want too.
4) stocks / bonds / money all subject to devaluation or deflationary pressures.

I don't dream of, want or even really think about being a "nomadic" prepper. That's my name for those who will carry their belongings on their back and live off the land or the failures of others. Unfortunately there are many who do and I think it's because when you put anything on that list it has risks!



thomasdangerpowers said:


> so during hyperinflation it is better to be a millionaire in Germany or a trillionire in Zimbabwe? hey moron the dow may be at an all time high but the purchasing powers is at a record low. sure the nominal value is up but you buy less gold, silver, oil food or just about anything else. as always I'm sure you didn't even listen to the vid before saying it is flawed. the Great Depression created more millionaires in American history than any other point because many people saw it coming and prepared for it. the Greater Depression can create even more. sure you can stock pile 2 years of supplies, I am doing so but what if you have to bug out? did you forget about that? are you gonna have a cabin in the woods that also has 2 years of supplies? I see this thing lasting maybe up to a decade what will you do after 2 years huh? The place to invest is emerging markets, mining and energy. If the U.S. crashes the rest of the world will have more to consume and it will most likely be with "Real" or "hard money" precious metals have historically either kept up with inflation or out preformed inflation. I'm talking about buying a part of a company that pays dividends, has a higher dividend yield and senior companies that can most likely survive the market volatility. you will run out of supplies or forget to prep something or did you forget that? sure you can barter or learn a trade but a steady income stream can always help. its literally owning a gold mine, what do people use as money when a currency fails...Gold. so you would be paid in the next reserve currency backed up by gold. I an a prepper I have food, water, medical supplies, gear, I understand Austrian economics but most of all I have an open mind.
> 
> P.S.
> moron I didn't say anything about a 401K or IRA like your bank account, S.S., unemployment, CD's and bonds they are denominated in Dollars.....you know the same currency that is being devalued? I'm talking about owning a part of a company in metals not only for there monetary value but technological applications as well. maybe you should listen to my advise before you say it is flawed. it seems the "preppers"
> on this sight are the most close minded its almost unbelievable I always get the same few guy bashing advise I know they didn't listen to by the comments


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

PalmettoTree said:


> Ron Paul's portfolio is the most ignorant collection of stock I have ever come across.
> 
> Regardless of what happens with the dollar there will be a demand for goods and services.
> 
> Ron Paul could never explain how to revert to his PMs backed currency.
> 
> Granted we are in a transition period for world currencies.
> 
> The biggest problem is not with the increased money supply but the lack of value individuals must put forth for the dollars. This is what hurts a currency because it sets a zero value bast for the currency.
> 
> Paul's problem is his profound ignorance regarding the function of money.
> 
> Regardless of who you believe or how you chose to invest do not follow Ron Paul's cult.


yeah Paul's portfolio only made gains 11 out of 12 years. and with little research you would find he has a very simpy way to go back to precious metal backed currency, simply remove constraints on metals like taxing gains and having to pay income taxes with alternatives. the man called the dot.com bubble and the housing bubble. there is no way you can say he has a "profound ignorance regarding the function of money" with a straight face. The drive to want to be left alone if you have done nothing wrong is not a "cult" senselessly protecting a broken system that allows the government to grow and gain more and more power is a "cult". "The biggest problem is not with the increased money supply" how do you explain the 21 countries that have experienced hyperinflation in the lase 100 years alone? I can answer that "printing money" supply and demand its basic. the less there is the more its worth like gold compaired to iron or diamonds to rocks. If you flood the market with gold made in a lab the price would drop like what happended to Aluminum that was once a precious metal till we learned to extract it from ore. a silver quarter still buys the same amount of gas because it is made of silver and silver quarters are rare it takes 18 clad quarters to buy the same amount of gas. as for the demand for goods and services I agree but look into what people use to pay for things when it wasn't fiat currency

as for the rest of you if you listen to what I say I never once said don't prep. I say do this in addition seriously why are the people who are suppose to see the dangers and suppose to have a open mind to solve problems the most close minded. This happens all the time. no matter what the issue these tons of people bashing whatever it is they didn't listen to. honestly I dont give a rats ass if anyone saves there self. but at least I try my main consern is my family I prep, food, water, medical suppies, gear, guns ammo, physical, metals and because I believe any tragety would eventually end I put alittle money to try and improve my future. Austrians called the following crashes that is what got me interested in economics. I would prefer to help my fellow Americans but nothing really matter to me but my own blood. take my advise or don't same as when we talk about prepping to non preppers. look in the mirror guys


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

Ripon said:


> The difference is you called a trusted and respected poster a moron while he said those believing in the fiat market (a generslity) morons. I don't agree with either of you but I am not about to start tossing out insults at you - I don't care about insults at general populations - take liberals for example.
> 
> I oft think the prepper community is too anti fiat / market. It can hyper inflate and guess what - it can deflate too. What will you do then if all your investments are hyperinflation protected? I've seen people say invest only in this or that. Well let's look at those things:
> 
> 1) land - its only yours if you pay the taxes and those can change.
> 2) precious metals - they took gold once
> 3) guns - subject to regulations, taxes are possible, and confiscation unlikely but you know some want too.
> 4) stocks / bonds / money all subject to devaluation or deflationary pressures.
> 
> I don't dream of, want or even really think about being a "nomadic" prepper. That's my name for those who will carry their belongings on their back and live off the land or the failures of others. Unfortunately there are many who do and I think it's because when you put anything on that list it has risks!


ok so the known and respected poster probly shouldn't call others names if he wants respect don't you think? 1 post or 1000 it makes no difference. I only show respect tho those who show me the same. He said anyone having stocks in that list and I was explaining how owning part of a company that will thrive will help, so obiously this means me, so he called me a moron. its plain as day, you don't even have to read between the lines for that one. Point taken but I know I have a valid point as well. and I don't mean any disrespect but I have to come out an say that if you want respect you give it.......period. I add a few post here and there if I lived on this site it woundn't make my poits any more or less valid. we are trying to work together to figure out problems yet only I get called out and reprimanded. that favoritism not respect


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

Montana Rancher said:


> Zzzzzz
> 
> I lost interest after they video suggested keeping money in the stock market.
> 
> With the DOW at record highs I suggest being liquid and buying in after the crash.
> 
> That is after you have your 2 years of food, ammo etc.
> 
> Anyone having stocks, 401k, sep IRA etc at this point is a moron or not a real prepper.
> 
> Flame off you have been warned.


how would you advise being liquid and buying after the crash when after the crash money is devalued? metals? food? gear? a company is something and if your part owner you still have something. my other choice is metals and base metals to be liquid but it might be harder to uses right away and if you wait too long foreigners who have the same or increased purhcasing powers will basically buy everything that isn't nailed down. If your gonna tell them what not to do, at least tell them what they need to do "to stay liquid" thats kinda vague.

P.S. to the rest of you who want and Austrian economic prespective AKA the same kind that has called all this and have questions just ask me. when someone better comes alone I'll step down. as you may remember I owned most of the econ. section on this forum for a reason.


----------



## Montana Rancher

thomasdangerpowers said:


> so during hyperinflation it is better to be a millionaire in Germany or a trillionire in Zimbabwe? hey moron the dow may be at an all time high but the purchasing powers is at a record low. sure the nominal value is up but you buy less gold, silver, oil food or just about anything else. as always I'm sure you didn't even listen to the vid before saying it is flawed. the Great Depression created more millionaires in American history than any other point because many people saw it coming and prepared for it. the Greater Depression can create even more. sure you can stock pile 2 years of supplies, I am doing so but what if you have to bug out? did you forget about that? are you gonna have a cabin in the woods that also has 2 years of supplies? I see this thing lasting maybe up to a decade what will you do after 2 years huh? The place to invest is emerging markets, mining and energy. If the U.S. crashes the rest of the world will have more to consume and it will most likely be with "Real" or "hard money" precious metals have historically either kept up with inflation or out preformed inflation. I'm talking about buying a part of a company that pays dividends, has a higher dividend yield and senior companies that can most likely survive the market volatility. you will run out of supplies or forget to prep something or did you forget that? sure you can barter or learn a trade but a steady income stream can always help. its literally owning a gold mine, what do people use as money when a currency fails...Gold. so you would be paid in the next reserve currency backed up by gold. I an a prepper I have food, water, medical supplies, gear, I understand Austrian economics but most of all I have an open mind.
> 
> P.S.
> moron I didn't say anything about a 401K or IRA like your bank account, S.S., unemployment, CD's and bonds they are denominated in Dollars.....you know the same currency that is being devalued? I'm talking about owning a part of a company in metals not only for there monetary value but technological applications as well. maybe you should listen to my advise before you say it is flawed. it seems the "preppers"
> on this sight are the most close minded its almost unbelievable I always get the same few guy bashing advise I know they didn't listen to by the comments


Ok Flame on you freeking bastard

The reason most people became wealthy in the last great depression is because they had money to invest in property and opportunity AFTER THE COLLAPSE , which OMG is exactly what I told you to do.

DO NOT INVEST IN THE STOCK MARKET, put your money in cash (or gold and silver) and wait for the "BUY" opportunity and you will become wealthy.

I feel like I am talking to children, anyone that thinks the stock market and all the investments will survive a collapse are morons, sorry I call them like I see them.

1. preps like water, food shelter, communications and security.
2. After you have that done invest in silver (screw gold it is overvalued compared to silver)
3. Shoot everyone that comes to your door saying you were wrong.

Sorry I'm from Montana where common sense is a life or death sentence.


----------



## Inor

thomasdangerpowers said:


> how would you advise being liquid and buying after the crash when after the crash money is devalued? metals? food? gear? a company is something and if your part owner you still have something. my other choice is metals and base metals to be liquid but it might be harder to uses right away and if you wait too long foreigners who have the same or increased purhcasing powers will basically buy everything that isn't nailed down. If your gonna tell them what not to do, at least tell them what they need to do "to stay liquid" thats kinda vague.
> 
> P.S. to the rest of you who want and Austrian economic prespective AKA the same kind that has called all this and have questions just ask me. when someone better comes alone I'll step down. as you may remember I owned most of the econ. section on this forum for a reason.


Just a bit of friendly advice - know your audience. If you have seen the pictures Montana Rancher posted on this site where he was installing his solar cells, you might have noticed the tractor. That tractor is probably worth almost as much as my house (and I live in a very nice house). You do not buy a tractor like that by being a "_moron_" about money.

P.S. Punctuation is your friend.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

money after a collapse? thats after years of live my grandma did the same big deal


----------



## Montana Rancher

thomasdangerpowers said:


> money after a collapse? thats after years of live my grandma did the same big deal


Sorry I will require you to use compete sentences, and punctuation, your post in not comprehensible.

Try again.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

flame on? you coming on to me? WTF? you talk and sure act like a child and you must live on this site and I don't care, it doesn't validate anything to me. gold is what use to take over after a collapse till the dollar was the reserve, if the reserve fails what is the next logical choice? gold and the companies I recommeded procude gold. there is a difference between this and apple or google stock. I guess you mush know that if your smart because you have a tractor. flame your self you bastard your stupid catch phrase doesn't impress me or make you right. you still failed to explain to them exactly what to do to stay liquid and also during the depression they still had gold backed money remember not fiat currency. what the hell do you thing a metals producing income stream in addition to hoarded metals would not be an advantage? I'll get back with you tomorrow I work for a living I can't play online all night guys


----------



## Montana Rancher

Inor said:


> Just a bit of friendly advice - know your audience. If you have seen the pictures Montana Rancher posted on this site where he was installing his solar cells, you might have noticed the tractor. That tractor is probably worth almost as much as my house (and I live in a very nice house). You do not buy a tractor like that by being a "_moron_" about money.
> 
> P.S. Punctuation is your friend.


haha, the truth about buying a John Deere tractor is it will be worth exactly what you paid for it when you sell it. For instance my first JD tractor was a 1965 3020 and I paid about 5k for the tractor which OMG was what it sold for new in 1965. (or really close)

The tractor in my solar panel pictures was prurchased used in 2000 for about $54,000 with the loader and I could sell it today for... OMG $54000

The cool part is when I run it for hire I make about $80 an hour custom cutting and that is an old figure based upon $140 a ton hay which is a low ball figure.

Disclaimer the CD player skips when I hit a bump so it may not be worth the cost.... Upside is the AC works flawlessly.

Just got done cutting 20 acres of hay today and bailing 15 acres, at 200 dollars a ton I am doing very well.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

Montana Rancher said:


> Sorry I will require you to use compete sentences, and punctuation, your post in not comprehensible.
> 
> Try again.


oh ok because i didn't put a period you couldn't comprehend that? I don't know that to say man.


----------



## Inor

Okay fine, I overestimated the tractor. :-D I saw the hay cutter, the forks, the bucket and I figured it was at least $150K.

But if the CD player skips it is long past time to sell the Goddamn thing and get a new one!!! :-D


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

maybe you don't realize a dollar last year is worth about .50c now hahaha. didn't take that little thing called inflation into consideration huh? so sell it for the same dollar value it worth 50% less now. your the rancher like those apples?


----------



## Montana Rancher

thomasdangerpowers said:


> flame on? you coming on to me? WTF? you talk and sure act like a child and you must live on this site and I don't care, it doesn't validate anything to me. gold is what use to take over after a collapse till the dollar was the reserve, if the reserve fails what is the next logical choice? gold and the companies I recommeded procude gold. there is a difference between this and apple or google stock. I guess you mush know that if your smart because you have a tractor. flame your self you bastard your stupid catch phrase doesn't impress me or make you right. you still failed to explain to them exactly what to do to stay liquid and also during the depression they still had gold backed money remember not fiat currency. what the hell do you thing a metals producing income stream in addition to hoarded metals would not be an advantage? I'll get back with you tomorrow I work for a living I can't play online all night guys


Again please use spaces, periods, and correct spelling. Seriously it is hard to understand what you are saying. If you took a few moments to edit your comments there would be less confusion.

So flame on again.

I will say again emphatically (take the time to look that one up, it is impressive)

If you own stocks you are going to get screwed!!!!

I don't care what Ron Paul says when the stock market crashes you will be holding paper not worth the money its written on.

401K, Sep IRA, Roth IRA, Mutual Funds, Stocks, yep you all will lose and lose big time.

I will and always will suggest turning all those "investments" into physical silver, put it in your safe or burry it behind your house, but the point is valid.

When we have a "correction" in the stock market of say 77% then you can contemplate pulling out your physical money and reinvesting, but truthfully I would not.

The market is rigged, and anyone that says "keep faith in the system and invest in this" is not realistic.

This whole thing will fail, if you don't have enough food, shelter, clothing to survive a 2 year collapse, take your money out and put it into things what really matter.

If you have more that 2 years worth of supplies then buy silver.

Historically silver trades 1:9 to gold, only recently has the ration burned up to 66:1 but that is market manipulation, Silver will eventually come back up to its 1:9 ratio and if gold is still at $1300 an ounce, you do the math.


----------



## Montana Rancher

thomasdangerpowers said:


> maybe you don't realize a dollar last year is worth about .50c now hahaha. didn't take that little thing called inflation into consideration huh? so sell it for the same dollar value it worth 50% less now. your the rancher like those apples?


I'm sorry Thomas, until you decide to use English and make it so a common person can understand your point I am not going to respond to you, Is English your original language?

Ok Edit

No the dollar is worth about 8-9% difference for a year ago, unlike the govment figures of 1%.

50% is the ramblings of a lunatic, what has gone up 50% in the last year? and if you have 1 example what about milk, eggs, cheese and gasoline?


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

I don't know what you want me to look up first of all. again if the reserve falls you get dividends in the new reserve currency. I agree MOST stocks but not all will be worthless, all 401K's, CD'd Bonds, bank accounts, and I totally agree with the system being rigged 100%. I agree 2 years worth of suppies and have it. survival is the main thing this is only for those who are in a good position. I disagree with the historic ratio I think it fluctuateded between 16 to 20 but has dropped lower in the past. I like a nice debate and will not disrespect unless I feel disrespected. I would like to discuse it more later if we can continue like this


----------



## Inor

thomasdangerpowers said:


> maybe you don't realize a dollar last year is worth about .50c now hahaha. didn't talk that little thing called inflation into consideration huh? so sell it for the same dollar value it worth 50% less now. your the rancher like those apples?


And what do you recommend to buy - third world stocks?!? REALLY?

I agree with you, the dollar is facing some rough headwinds and will likely not end up the reserve currency. But the Chinese yuan will fail with the dollar because it is PEGGED to the dollar. In other words, the dollar goes down the yuan goes down. Add to that, the probability of the banana republics confiscating anything of value (including and especially) precious metals mines when this all starts going south, and stocks (especially foreign stocks) are the LAST place you want to be right now, unless you have the time to watch the markets minute by minute. The other options are anything denominated in the euro or yen. Are you kidding me?!?!

I also agree with you that Austrian economics does define the path we will eventually go down. But those are not the rules that the market is currently playing. We are currently playing by the rules of Paul Krugman and the Keynesians. You can say those rules are not sustainable, and I agree with you totally, but those are the rules that are in play now. If you are going to make money in the markets now, you have to play by the rules that are dominating now - or sit this round out. I choose to sit this round out except for playing a few options mostly as an intellectual game.

In the meantime, please quit pissing on the Rancher because I think he has forgotten more about this shit than you or I will ever know.


----------



## Montana Rancher

thomasdangerpowers said:


> I don't know what you want me to look up first of all. again if the reserve falls you get dividends in the new reserve currency. I agree MOST stocks but not all will be worthless, all 401K's, CD'd Bonds, bank accounts, and I totally agree with the system being rigged 100%. I agree 2 years worth of suppies and have it. survival is the main thing this is only for those who are in a good position. I disagree with the historic ratio I think it fluctuateded between 16 to 20 but has dropped lower in the past. I like a nice debate and will not disrespect unless I feel disrespected. I would like to discuse it more later if we can continue like this


Ok
I think we are making progress.

A. We agree MOST stocks will be worthless.
B. The stock market is rigged 100%
C. 2 years worth of supplies is a good call
D. The silver price is manipulated at only a 16:1 ratio which means silver should be $85 an ounce.
E. So I would guess you agree with me to by silver for a 400% profit when everyone realizes your expertise?


----------



## Seneca

Would it be wise to buy stock in a company that makes liquor? That way your assets would be liquid...just sayin...:lol:


----------



## inceptor

thomasdangerpowers said:


> so during hyperinflation it is better to be a millionaire in Germany or a trillionire in Zimbabwe? *hey moron* the dow may be at an all time high but the purchasing powers is at a record low.


The best way to convince people to that you're right is to let them know they are a moron because they didn't jump on your bandwagon? SMH

So you've got this down so pat that you are worth at least as much as Buffet, right?

Me, I'm so poor I have trouble paying attention. I don't invest in gold because I can't afford it. I do buy a small amount of silver each month because that is all I can afford. I'm not sure how buying stocks will profit someone when if the economy collapses and the companies go out of business will help anyone. Even companies in other countries will be badly hurt if our economy tanks because the world uses the dollar as the base currency.

I did listen somewhat in school and did learn sentence structure AND I know how to use spell check.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

I agree with you that the market is rigged 100%, I agree that IRA's, 401k's, mutual funds, CD's will totally lose all or almost all value. Stick will lose as well and alot but there are few and very few worth having. After a currency fails the dollar and gold fill the vacuum so if the dollar fails either the new reserve (most likely the Yaun and the Chinese announced they want to back thier currency with gold) will take over. If the U.S. falls the rest of the world will have a better standard of living. Owning stocks are owning part of a business and most will fail but precious metals producers and energy stock will still have value because the rest of the world will still need metals, base metals and energy. that is the only thing I buy and would recommend few specific ones. of course I also agree 2 years of food, water, supplies and maybe junk silver before you even look at doing this. I am at that point myself. I could buy things after a crash with my physical gold or silver I own now and maybe dividend payments I would get (probly in Yaun) to buy as well. I own alot of silver the pics in the vids are my stash. If stock were paper I would agree but they are shares of a company, the dollar is nothing unless we are forced to use it. As for the ratio would disagree the silver to gold has historically been between 16:1 to 20:1 but we have used silver like crazy so it is actually more rare than gold so I believe tha value will surpass gold


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

if your read the first comment you would see I was called me a moron first by the title, I didn't call him a moron because he disagreed it was a response to the first comment, no one bothers to look at that huh. Yeah sure I'm worth as much as Buffet you need that much to by $15 share. I never disagreed with buying silver, look at all my older post that all I do is recommend buying silver here and there. finally if the world is props up the dollar and it crashed, that means they have more money for themselves and there purchasing power would rise if they started printing.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

WTF? who do you think is propping up but the dollar? mainly the Chinese. If they don't lend it to us they use if for themselves. You jumped on his side from the beginning and it was unjustified. I showed who instigated it. If you thing he is so "known and respectable" maybe you should hold him to a higher standard. I pointed out it was because I was called a moron first and it said it was just by the title alone. Preppers are suppose to be the guys who look ahead but seem to be the most short sighted. having an open mind is why I took interest in Austrian economics. Finally I doubt he has forgotten more than I know read my points with and unbias state of mind. you can't you picked a side to defend without knowing what was going on and making excuses. No one on this site so far can lecture me on this topic, maybe point out things here and there but got give me lessons. Its not all black and white. simply saying all stocks are bad is like saying all pizza places are bad. if you understand the yaun is pegged to the dollar, then you must realize what happens when it is not pegged. Think the world will lend us money to buy there goods forever? If you think the U.S. is the economic leader then you have alot more reading against Krugman and other Keynesians my friend. I already explained what if the government confiscated everything it would send a red flag to foreign investors to stay away, why put money where it is being stolen. Our leaders don't want to run a economic wasteland.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

actually because we have used so much silver it is actually more rare than gold. seriously you guys look into all the used. I think silver will someday be worth more than gold. This is what I am doing with most of my money I only put alittle into a few specific stocks. my main thing is silver bullion and junk silver


----------



## Montana Rancher

The Chinese are not propping up the dollar, actually their holdings of treasuries has shrunk form 3 trillion around 2002 to less than 1 trillion today, a little reported fact.

The fact is the US treasury is the biggest buyer of treasuries, it sounds funny but it is true. They "buy" treasuries but just adding debits to the computer and then assigning some of that debt to the government.

Recently it was disclosed that the debt of the US government hasn't shown an increase for 56 days, stuck on $16.738 trillion for almost 2 months. This is not possible as the treasury is printing more than $40 billion a month just to keep the government afloat in overspending.

The fix is in, the dollar will fail, the economy will experience at LEAST hyperinflation but even worse just a complete shut down.

With all those things going on, I would not expect any money in the current financial system be it a bank, savings, retirement, and especially stocks will remain. If you think the collapse will happen but the companies that existed before the collapse will somehow remain intact and keep producing is wishful thinking.

What you have under your roof or on your property (and the ability to defend it) is going to be the only game in town.

Yes there will be a new world order, but if you think those people will honor your retirement accounts or stock purchases, you are deluding yourself.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

I agree with most of that you are correct we are the biggest buyers of bond, the Chinese have cut back purchases bigtime as well as the Japanese. However just being pegged is also holding us up. they create inflation to match ours otherwise the Yaun would rise in purchasing power and prices for imports would skyrocket here because imports are at all time or near all time highs. I have to confess I hear things about a new world order but I don't know exactly who these leaders are or even it that is true, personally I believe (and I maybe wrong) but I believe it is just like Rome where politicians promise more than they can promise and the debt piles on till it collapses. The chinese have come from simple farms to having homes with electricity and pluming for most of the population and may over take us. there maybe a NWO if so yes all stocks, silver, gold, suppies, homes everything would be took away. I don't think there is such a thing myself, in that case I am wrong they would say we don't even own our own asses. Then its time to lock and load. I hoard brass and lead as well as gold and silver


----------



## PaulS

There are whole cities in China that are full of homes that are owned, yet no one lives in them. They have a housing bubble going on that makes our last burst bubble look like a drop in a lake. Owning foreign stocks is a wonderful thought but in reality if the economy collapses those companies could be nationalized and foreign investors would simply be out their investments. It would be a total loss. This has happened in Saudi Arabia in the recent past with oil production.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

true, basically the whole thing is run 1 man so Xi basically owns it everything. however the more they lean to free market principals the more prosperous they become but it is realistic one man could do something that foolish those types of investment hold the least interest to me in my list, I only purchased a few grand in senior mining companies I saw at 10 year lows and it looks like I purchased near the bottom Barrick Gold had a low of 13 a share I picked up at 14 newmont I got at 26 a share it was 50ish alittle while ago, Pan American was about 11 a share down from 40 all down due to our "recovery" with little money I take dividends and re invest if I lose its only a couple grand Ive spent more on ammo alone(before the scare) and silver is less than physical silver 20 an ounce so I'm buying that as well. I've seen those cites full of schools, homes and offices. I believe the prices would have to come down and thats not a bad thing in a bubble. it is stabalization of prices. If they do have a serious downturn which I don't see but hope for, I'll try and take advantage of there prices dropping resulting in cheaper imports on other items I need to stock up and some to barter


----------



## Montana Rancher

I think you are very intelligent, but flawed in your theory which you have yet to address. 

Free market principles no longer apply, and so most of your conclusions are mute.

When Federal reserve prints money out of thin air, and print money to redeem $45 billion a month in mortgage backed securities, and bail out foreign banks, I think we can agree that free market is not present.

When banks commit fraud in the robo-signing scandals and pay pennies on the dollar in fines with not prosecution of the guilty parties, the free market system doesn't apply.

When the Federal reserve keeps interest rates at ZERO for years on end, we can assume the free market system doesn't apply.

When the Federal reserve through JP Morgan shorts gold and silver in the thousands of contracts per month to suppress the price of PM's the free market system doesn't apply

Your whole theory is based on a system that no longer exists!

Nothing is worth what it appears to be worth, and investing in nothing will give you equal results.

Peter Schiff's advice is to get out of the ponsie scheme and get into precious metals. 

But your writing style makes people discount you.

If you write ONE MORE POST WITHOUT A SPACE, PROPER PUNCUATION OR A SEMICOLON, YOU WILL BE BANNED FROM ANY FURTHER RESPONSE.

Geeze I am tired of trying to understand what you are saying, make it legible or go away


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

I meant to say the Chinese have a more free market than what we have here in the US, and that is really sad because they are commies. Totally state run but a more free market than we have here. 

I agree with your analysis on the FED, banks and market. 

Peter does recommend getting out of ponzi scheme and into precious metals, but also into certain stocks and gold certificates. Hell the man even recommends people store food. I know for dam sure this is his position and can't say I agree with it all his beliefs. I've listen to almost all his blogs, and shows for the last 3 years.

I think we are pretty close in beliefs, I just like to diversity what I wish to hedge from inflation.

yes, nothing is priced right because of the fed. Inflation distorts values, but not everything Is a bad investment. like not all pizza places are good or bad.

not sure about the spaces, but what the hell. Hope this is what you meant. If you like, it I love it.


----------



## PalmettoTree

Stock prices are expressed in fiat currencies their value is not by fiat. People or companies that deliver goods and services have an intrinsic value. If the dollar falls from grace stock prices will continue to be expressed in something. Granted there are many stocks that are over priced against their intrinsic value both current and future value.

In my opinion it is foolish to but all one's eggs in the total economic collapse basket. I believe some really expect a collapse but most use a total collapse as an excuse not to put forward the effort not to save.

Prepping is preparing for all or most eventualities. If you are not fracturing in the likelihood that there will not be a collapse and your physical abilities will certainly collapse someday then you are not a prepper. In such a case you are just hoping everyone will join your misery. Everyone of these sky is falling post could have been written by my parent's generation in the 1950's.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

very well said. Exactly I think metals will be the best investments but I cannot put all my eggs in one basket. The companies I chose deliver goods the world needs precious and base metals for industry, so the compaines do have an intrinsic value. I agree to look at all outcomes I see probable. I try and keep in shape working out and running with a wieght vest, try to go to the range but eventually my physical abilities will diminish because I won't be 30 forever. the most important thing to do is prep your mind. No amount of food, guns or suppies will save someone without metal strength and the mind is the most important tool and the most dangerous weapon.


----------



## PaulS

Investing by definition is placing your money where it will grow.
While it is possible to "make a profit" on precious metals it is also true that over the long haul precious metal only maintain their value.
That makes them a good hedge on inflation but a lousy "investment".

an ounce of gold will always be worth the same number of gallons of oil, the same number of pounds of coffee, and the same number of pounds of salt on the world market. If the price of gold goes up 20% what that means is that the value of your money has dropped 16.67%. 

Use PM's as a hedge bet against inflation or manipulated deflation but invest in something with growth potential.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

I would disagree for a few reasons. first in terms of precious metals you can buy more gas, precious metals reflect the a advancements in technology and efficiency. silver will be the big winner sure it buys the same amout of some things and more or others due to advancements but I believe silver is more rare than gold. No one cares for the billions of onces of paper maybe a 10th of physical is out there. It has thousands of technological and medical uses. Silver is in every single electronic device made. 90% of what I have is in physical metals the rest is spread out. We already see the physical price or silver and the paper price spreading more and more. As inflation shines more light on metals, it becomes more obvious how rare they are, as it becomes more obvious mining companies will rise as well. some of these stock in the list made 300% to 2100% increase which is far beyond actual inflation. and these companies produce PM's as well as base metals like nickel, copper, aluminum, lead.


----------



## PaulS

Feel free to believe as you wish. we are using less silver today than we were back in 1980. Most of the silver back then was used in photography and after the Heinz brothers tried to manipulate the silver markets the photo industry found other ways to make pictures. Then the digital age hit and most photography is gone. If your electronics use silve you are using low end stuff. My electronics use gold because it won't corrode and silver does.


----------



## Montana Rancher

PaulS said:


> Feel free to believe as you wish. we are using less silver today than we were back in 1980. Most of the silver back then was used in photography and after the Heinz brothers tried to manipulate the silver markets the photo industry found other ways to make pictures. Then the digital age hit and most photography is gone. If your electronics use silve you are using low end stuff. My electronics use gold because it won't corrode and silver does.


I didn't take the time to really research your claim but considering that the price of silver has skyrocketed, it would not surprise me if a cheaper metal had been found to use.

The main point is that silver is used in all electronics and also deodorizing socks. Of all the silver ever mined, only 2% of that total still exists.

Since it is determined by the price very few electronics use gold over silver.


----------



## PaulS

Montana Rancher,
I put my computer together from good quality parts. All of the pins and blades are gold plated to keep a good contact that is free of corrosion. Even the video cable that I just bought came with gold contact pins. All aircraft electrical connections are made with gold connectors. The pins on your CPU are gold. These are all just a high grade of plating but it is made with gold over copper in most cases. Silver, mixed with Cadmium, is used for contacts in high power switch gear but it is rarely used in slip connectors because it corrodes so fast.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

your electronics? no all electronic use silver even high end. you are 100% correct silver is not going to corrode or tarnish like gold but due to the price silver is used instead of gold. I'm not trying to disrespect you but your electronics use silver, same as mine and everyone elses. I DON'T just want you to take my word for it, look it up. Silver is used for nuclear power, rechargable batteries, mirrors, all electronics, numerous medications, tons of different types of water and air purifiers, it is one of the best anti microbal, anti bacterial, anti fungal anti pathagenics we know of. I think Montana Rancher had is right on 2% of the silver we mined is left, the US list our silver researves as *none* and the US mint has been backed up for months even as the economy is "recovering". I think it will be one of the best investments of all time unless we come out with nano-bot technology. seriously look it up alone with any one who reads this there is amazing up side potential in silver. Gold, platinum and palladium all pale in comparison to silver, maybe even combined


----------



## Inor

thomasdangerpowers said:


> your electronics? no all electronic use silver even high end. you are 100% correct silver is not going to corrode or tarnish like gold but due to the price silver is used instead of gold. I'm not trying to disrespect you but your electronics use silver, same as mine and everyone elses. I DON'T just want you to take my word for it, look it up. Silver is used for nuclear power, rechargable batteries, mirrors, all electronics, numerous medications, tons of different types of water and air purifiers, it is one of the best anti microbal, anti bacterial, anti fungal anti pathagenics we know of. I think Montana Rancher had is right on 2% of the silver we mined is left, the US list our silver researves as *none* and the US mint has been backed up for months even as the economy is "recovering". I think it will be one of the best investments of all time unless we come out with nano-bot technology. seriously look it up alone with any one who reads this there is amazing up side potential in silver. Gold, platinum and palladium all pale in comparison to silver, maybe even combined


I have read this thread from beginning to end four times this evening trying to figure out what I was missing. After reading and re-reading every word here, I am more confused now than I was when I started.

You started the thread off, as near as I can tell, by putting forth an investment strategy of investing in the stocks of small precious metals mining firms. Although it is not totally clear from your early posts, because your command of English is severely lacking, you seemed to suggest it would be best if these were foreign mining firms since they would not be denominated in the U.S. Dollar. (Please correct me on this if I am wrong.)

When several of us challenged you on your idea, you proceeded with several posts calling us morons, and later expounding on how smart you are because you posted something on this site earlier about investing in something. (Note: The correct answer would have been to back up your argument in the first post with some real facts or statistics that support your positions - even if your interpretation is something that I disagree with, I would have respected it.)

But let's look at some statistics and see how your thesis stands up...

In 2003, gold was trading for roughly $300 per oz. (Note: I took all of these number from Shadow Stats because they are the commonly agreed upon standard for numbers the government no longer compiles.) The federal deficit was roughly $5.6 trillion. Today, with a deficit of $16.7 trillion the price of gold should be about $895 per oz as weighted against the deficit. If we compare it against the M1 money supply: In 2003, we had a money supply of roughly $6 trillion; today it is roughly $8 trillion. If we compare against the money supply, it should be trading at roughly $400 per oz. (Note: I chose to use the M1 money supply number rather than the M3 number because it is more favorable to you. - Using the M3 number, the price of gold should be virtually unchanged.)

Using the common agreed upon standard of a 40:1 ratio of silver to gold, silver should be trading at between $22.37 and $11.25 per oz. Assuming that you are using the federal deficit ratio fro your number, since it is the most favorable to you, silver is right about where it should be trading at $20.01 per oz at close today.

Let me just clear up your "freak out" about the M1 (and M3) monetary supply numbers before you go off on some conspiracy rant. Yes the Fed has been printing $85 billion per month (an earlier post stated it was $45 billion, but that is only the money they are issuing to Fannie and Freddie, they are also still doing "Operation Twist" to the tune of $40 billion per month, so their total is $85 billion per month creating new money. But, the $45 billion to Fannie and Freddy is money that was created previously via home mortgages lent out and the $40 billion is buying long term debt at the expense of short-term debt. In the end, they are creating $85 billion per month, but they are also destroying $85 million per month in total cash in the economy, so the net is a wash. Note: I am NOT saying this is good, just that it does not add to the overall volume of money in the economy.

So let's get back to your later posts...

The last few posts, you seem to be promoting a strategy of buying physical metals. I am still not sure how we got to physical metals from buying stocks in third-world cesspools, but whatever...Right now, all physical metals have a 10-20% premium above spot price. So, given that silver is right in the mid-range of where it should be based on the numbers, and gold is about 30% high, you are still suggesting buying?!? Is your math as bad as your English?

P.S. You may also want to check out a tutor for your reading skills. Paul's post that you agreed with 100% did not say that gold tarnished faster than silver; it said silver tarnished faster than gold.


----------



## Seneca

I've heard that if one ingests too much colloidal silver they'll turn blue like a smurf...


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

first off I write something and this thing lags like hell plus I decide to rewrite alot because people take way too much out of context. I don't care what anyone thinks, I'm not here to impress.

yes, let me correct I said buy mining stocks, energy stocks and stocks in emerging markets because its Schiff's recommendations. I like the first two myself. I can't pick foreign stocks for shit, but that doesn't mean others here can't. I NEVER said small miners I said senior companies.

right now stocks are denominated in Dollars because we have the reserve currency, if we no longer have the reserve then stocks would be denominated in the new reserve. too complicated? dividends would be paid in the new reserve or the investors national currency and the investor gets to choose like they do now

no, I didn't call anyone a moron for not agreeing with me. I was called a moron and the comment also said it was by the title alone so called them a moron as well. No body seems be able to see that. We all think something is wrong and think we need to do something, just because it a different plan doesn't mean it is always wrong.

let me "clear your" conspiracy rant accusations. I am saying most of the silver being traded is "paper silver" not physical. so silver is way under valued, there is more gold out there than silver. I got to physical metals saying I have most of my money in physical metals but wanted to so something with the rest.

you cannot divide the money supply by physical silver. Most of the debt is in bonds, some of it is making it into the economy. SS has been running in the red so taxes and borrowing are not covering it. The all S.S., welfare and unemployment check come from the same pot. these are paid by borrowing, taxing and buying our own bonds AKA expanding the money supply. I think your math as as flawed as your ego. Truth be told I have a problem typing with 2 fingers looking at a computer screen, trying to get it down typing and retyping. I've only had a computer for a few years. I don't even text I call and leave paper notes on doors. I'm glad you think you are so intelligent because you don't have that problem, but by no means do you impress or think you've belittled me. Blow your hot air some where else I'm not impressed. Go by stats that say gold is over valued, thats fine by me. Its due to the idea of the "recovery" thats all.

great stats, anyone can find stats that support their argument. If it doesn't show the money making its way to the market or the lack of physical silver compared to gold then I don't agree. There is no way in hell Gold is 30% too high. All this paper money will rush to small amounts of silver and gold including what is being mined. 
If you said silver tarnishes faster than gold and I said gold tarnishes faster than silver then we are both wrong..........gold doesn't tarnish. I maybe f***ed up. I mean't gold is superior to silver in electronics because it won't corrode or tarnish.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

thats true but you need to comsume a S**t load for this to happen and it is not dangerous you just look like a smurf. The guy drank colloidar silver everyday for years.


----------



## PaulS

The title of this thread is: "Investing like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff with Scottrade" 

My first thought when I saw the title was: "If I had their disposable income maybe I would invest like they do."

I don't have that kind of "disposable" income and if I did I would not be working with Scottrade I would be working with a local real estate broker on a 6000+ acre plot of land that is for sale close by me. Stocks are ok, I have some but you need to invest in something that folks need - use up - and buy again. Precious metals are only meant to be a hedge against inflation and never as an investment. Investments need to make real money to be of any value and as soon as the stop making real money it is time to divest and invest in something else. If I was going to recommend a stock to someone (which I won't for several reasons) I would recommend high tech arms and defense related stocks. Those are the most likely to show real gains in the next five to ten years. My second choice would be basics. Stocks of companies that make soap, and cleaning supplies - but the companies that are growing not Proctor and Gamble. Food production is a no-brainer but the corporate food chain controls its own prices and there are real risks in trying to out-guess those folks. I would say stay away from high tech consumables unless the company has a five year history of 10 to 20 percent gains. A lot of these companies burn bright and then go down like the housing market did. The space industry is set for a big boost but it is fueled only by "blue sky" hopes and dreams. The first company that makes a profit in space is going to be the next IBM or Microsoft type of take-off company.

Now if we all had huge disposable incomes we could invest in a diverse and risky portfolio - but most of us don't. If you don't have $10,000 that you can afford to lose don't invest.

I am not a broker, trader, or financial counselor so please, don't even bother telling me that my ideas are full of holes. I have lost enough in stocks to know that. Seek help with your investment from professionals with good track records.


----------



## Seneca

Thomas,
Thanks I was way off topic with that but this thread got a hook into my sense of irony.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

yeah, it did make me chuckle brother  I forgot all about that guy, it freaked me out when I first saw his face


----------



## Rigged for Quiet

My brain cell hurts...


----------



## PaulS

Rigged for Quiet said:


> My brain cell hurts...


Just the one or all of them?


----------



## Rigged for Quiet

Just the one. It's very busy.


----------



## Seneca

Preppers talking about investing...irony
The blue guy...well that's just funny...


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

I can agree with alot of that. we differ in ideas I believe metals are an investment because I see them as way way undervalued plus the deflation in terms of PMs due to innovation. This combination makes it an investment in my eyes. Maybe its my eyes alone? I see most stocks as risky, inflation distorted value.

I like you stock ideas (I understand there not your recommendations, and I don't think its full of holes) I believe raw materials are the back door to everything maybe I'm wrong. Yes I am willing to losing money (just shy of $10,000) I have done ok so far by going against the grain of conventional wisdom focusing more on a falling dollar not raising stocks, and my luck could run out. You are right, this isn't for everyone but maybe someone will see it who it is right for.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

Inor said:


> I have read this thread from beginning to end four times this evening trying to figure out what I was missing. After reading and re-reading every word here, I am more confused now than I was when I started.
> 
> You started the thread off, as near as I can tell, by putting forth an investment strategy of investing in the stocks of small precious metals mining firms. Although it is not totally clear from your early posts, because your command of English is severely lacking, you seemed to suggest it would be best if these were foreign mining firms since they would not be denominated in the U.S. Dollar. (Please correct me on this if I am wrong.)
> 
> When several of us challenged you on your idea, you proceeded with several posts calling us morons, and later expounding on how smart you are because you posted something on this site earlier about investing in something. (Note: The correct answer would have been to back up your argument in the first post with some real facts or statistics that support your positions - even if your interpretation is something that I disagree with, I would have respected it.)
> 
> But let's look at some statistics and see how your thesis stands up...
> 
> In 2003, gold was trading for roughly $300 per oz. (Note: I took all of these number from Shadow Stats because they are the commonly agreed upon standard for numbers the government no longer compiles.) The federal deficit was roughly $5.6 trillion. Today, with a deficit of $16.7 trillion the price of gold should be about $895 per oz as weighted against the deficit. If we compare it against the M1 money supply: In 2003, we had a money supply of roughly $6 trillion; today it is roughly $8 trillion. If we compare against the money supply, it should be trading at roughly $400 per oz. (Note: I chose to use the M1 money supply number rather than the M3 number because it is more favorable to you. - Using the M3 number, the price of gold should be virtually unchanged.)
> 
> Using the common agreed upon standard of a 40:1 ratio of silver to gold, silver should be trading at between $22.37 and $11.25 per oz. Assuming that you are using the federal deficit ratio fro your number, since it is the most favorable to you, silver is right about where it should be trading at $20.01 per oz at close today.
> 
> Let me just clear up your "freak out" about the M1 (and M3) monetary supply numbers before you go off on some conspiracy rant. Yes the Fed has been printing $85 billion per month (an earlier post stated it was $45 billion, but that is only the money they are issuing to Fannie and Freddie, they are also still doing "Operation Twist" to the tune of $40 billion per month, so their total is $85 billion per month creating new money. But, the $45 billion to Fannie and Freddy is money that was created previously via home mortgages lent out and the $40 billion is buying long term debt at the expense of short-term debt. In the end, they are creating $85 billion per month, but they are also destroying $85 million per month in total cash in the economy, so the net is a wash. Note: I am NOT saying this is good, just that it does not add to the overall volume of money in the economy.
> 
> So let's get back to your later posts...
> 
> The last few posts, you seem to be promoting a strategy of buying physical metals. I am still not sure how we got to physical metals from buying stocks in third-world cesspools, but whatever...Right now, all physical metals have a 10-20% premium above spot price. So, given that silver is right in the mid-range of where it should be based on the numbers, and gold is about 30% high, you are still suggesting buying?!? Is your math as bad as your English?
> 
> P.S. You may also want to check out a tutor for your reading skills. Paul's post that you agreed with 100% did not say that gold tarnished faster than silver; it said silver tarnished faster than gold.


Coming from the guy how says silver is used less today than in 1980, and that "the age of photography is gone" like that's the only purpose silver ever had. Let me "clear up" your little rant. Silver is probly the most diverse metal out there nuclear power, rechargeable batteries, mirrors, all electronics, numerous medications, tons of different types of water purifiers, air purifiers, solar power, it is one of the best anti microbial, anti bacterial, anti fungal anti pathogenic so its used in some fabrics' in hospitals like gowns and sheets and in some athletic wear, even your car has a few grams of silver (but you've read this several times and think its only used in photography). You don't believe silver is used in all electronics because someone made a computer with gold components? Am I right so far?

The guy who thinks gold is 30% overvalued. The national debt has doubled since Obama took office, and the silver I purchased since then has rose about 25%, gold has rose about 30% and you say MY math may be off? Our silver has been depleting for years, the U.S. mint is backordered, the nation stockpile is reported as "none" (conspiracy? They write the dam report), 90% of the silver traded is "paper" not physical silver (so obviously it is undervalued if only a fraction actually exists), it is has thousands of applications and we used it faster than we mine it, the national debt had double, silver is the most diverse (or close to it) metal out there. But its right where it should be at $20 an ounce huh? If even only one of these was correct, then the price is way too low. I won't even pretend like you made any valid point with your money supply into the economy crap.

Trying to talk down to me after you write this. Maybe my post we confusing but yours are clear and totally flawed. Because silver is needed for industrial uses and it is far less abundant that most think I recommend buying senior mining stocks again senior mining stocks. I never said small firms or stocks in stocks in third-world cesspools. Maybe China and India you know those 2 superpowers with markets on the rise, looking for way to spend dollars by buying precious metals and companies or Singapore that unheard of place that has more billionaires than anywhere else. Maybe you've heard of them? These stocks mine that desired metal as well as the metal that always replaces fallen fiat currencies. What is that so hard to understand if some guy who can't type for shit gets it?

As for "calling people morons for not agreeing with me"&#8230;&#8230;If you read ALL the posts 4 times maybe you would see that isn't what I said. I explained it at least twice. If I explained it 2 time and you "have read this thread from beginning to end four times"
that means you read that I was called a moron first and then called the guy a moron 8 times and you STILL managed to forget that when you posted that response. You probly scanned over it and snowballed on the fact that I can't 2 finger type/peck for shit thing. I don't even text, only had a computer for a few years and I didn't have a Nintendo growing up and I don't care. You can try and convince yourself you are so intelligent but you won't convince me or anyone who reads this. Also I don't use M1 or M3 or try to cook the books I use basic reasoning skills. Saying I use stats that are more favorable after posting some stats that claims P.metals are overvalued. I know eventually I'll be banned because I can't stand this stupid bull****. Believe me, I don't doubt that your confused


----------



## Inor

thomasdangerpowers said:


> Coming from the guy how says silver is used less today than in 1980, and that "the age of photography is gone" like that's the only purpose silver ever had. Let me "clear up" your little rant. Silver is probly the most diverse metal out there nuclear power, rechargeable batteries, mirrors, all electronics, numerous medications, tons of different types of water purifiers, air purifiers, solar power, it is one of the best anti microbial, anti bacterial, anti fungal anti pathogenic so its used in some fabrics' in hospitals like gowns and sheets and in some athletic wear, even your car has a few grams of silver (but you've read this several times and think its only used in photography). You don't believe silver is used in all electronics because someone made a computer with gold components? Am I right so far?


On that one I believe you have me confused with another poster. So, no you are wrong.



thomasdangerpowers said:


> The guy who thinks gold is 30% overvalued. The national debt has doubled since Obama took office, and the silver I purchased since then has rose about 25%, gold has rose about 30% and you say MY math may be off? Our silver has been depleting for years, the U.S. mint is backordered, the nation stockpile is reported as "none" (conspiracy? They write the dam report), 90% of the silver traded is "paper" not physical silver (so obviously it is undervalued if only a fraction actually exists), it is has thousands of applications and we used it faster than we mine it, the national debt had double, silver is the most diverse (or close to it) metal out there. But its right where it should be at $20 an ounce huh? If even only one of these was correct, then the price is way too low. I won't even pretend like you made any valid point with your money supply into the economy crap.


Actually, I did not give you any opinion of what I think gold's value should presently be. I was simply presenting the math based on the parameters you had stated.

You had stated in several of your posts that gold and silver are useful as a hedge against inflation. I agreed with you. But... If you use inflation as the primary thesis of why you should buy precious metals, then you have to understand money supply because the primary driver of inflation is the ratio between money supply and the supply of goods. The examples I gave came from the M1 and M3 money supply numbers as calculated by ShadowStats.com (incidentally they are the same statisticians that Peter Schiff often quotes in his Saturday morning YouTube videos). Using their numbers for the the money supply today vs gold price and their number for the money supply in 2003 vs gold price then, investing gold simply as a hedge against inflation, you have done very well but it is a VERY loud sell signal because gold is overvalued by that metric. All I did with the silver price was simply extrapolate that out using the average gold/silver ratio since 1973.



thomasdangerpowers said:


> Also I don't use M1 or M3 or try to cook the books I use basic reasoning skills. Saying I use stats that are more favorable after posting some stats that claims P.metals are overvalued.


So, let me get this straight, you make investments on emotion? You do not look at the numbers that are going to drive the investment higher or lower. Yeah, I know "basic reasoning skill" what the hell is that beyond you pulling ideas out of your ass?!? "Dem 'puters use silver and everbody has a 'puter dese days". Give me a figgin' break. If you are going to be making suggestions for what people should invest in, get off your ass and do some research and come up with a reasonable thesis beyond "Peter Schiff said so."

In one of your earlier posts you offered up 3 or 4 different mining stocks that you thought were really hot. But I have yet to see a single analysis on any financials. I have yet to see anything on who is running the company. I have yet to see even a single ratio and why that is justified or why it will be going higher beyond stating a list of products that silver is used in.


----------



## PalmettoTree

During the first decade of this century energy was the place to make money. Now the price is high enough that the supply is plentiful. This decade the money to be made is in transportation but not shipping. There is a glut of ships. The barge market is private. My money is in pipelines and rail.

History is repeating. Obama has stopped the pipeline for Buffett. Buffett owns Burlington Northern Santa Fe. This rail system is central to the supplies of North American crude and refineries.

However there are still profits to be made in rail and pipelines.

You guys can fight over PMs all you like but between the speculators and the trace amounts used your cost will be hard to keep up with. It will take decades before cost averaging will pay off. I still collect coins but only in anticipation of my grandchildren benefiting.

My copper stock will sell tomorrow. China and Australia have a fixed trade agreement that is putting Western Hemisphere companies out of business. Most silver is mined as a byproduct of copper mining. This likely is why silver prices are where they are today add to that the glut of privately minted rounds and bars in the retail pipeline. The mom and pop shop dealers in PMs are currency poor.

That is my opinion for what it is worth. That is what I'm acting on.


----------



## Inor

PalmettoTree said:


> Buffett owns Burlington Northern Santa Fe. This rail system is central to the supplies of North American crude and refineries.


Burlington Northern is great company. I studied up on them about a year ago. (I have not followed them much recently since I did not buy any stock at the time.) They were working on a proprietary software product that will be a HUGE benefit to them if they can get it working. They were building something that would use artificial intelligence to help them determine where to leave excess rail cars and locomotives to get the most benefit. Their initial goal for the software was to be able to reduce their rolling stock by 10% without affecting the amount of goods they carry. It seemed a bit aggressive to me at the time, but I did recognize a couple of the names of guys working on the project and they are very bright. They might actually be able to pull it off. If so, they will setup to increase profits significantly.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

Inor said:


> On that one I believe you have me confused with another poster. So, no you are wrong.
> 
> Actually, I did not give you any opinion of what I think gold's value should presently be. I was simply presenting the math based on the parameters you had stated.
> 
> You had stated in several of your posts that gold and silver are useful as a hedge against inflation. I agreed with you. But... If you use inflation as the primary thesis of why you should buy precious metals, then you have to understand money supply because the primary driver of inflation is the ratio between money supply and the supply of goods. The examples I gave came from the M1 and M3 money supply numbers as calculated by ShadowStats.com (incidentally they are the same statisticians that Peter Schiff often quotes in his Saturday morning YouTube videos). Using their numbers for the the money supply today vs gold price and their number for the money supply in 2003 vs gold price then, investing gold simply as a hedge against inflation, you have done very well but it is a VERY loud sell signal because gold is overvalued by that metric. All I did with the silver price was simply extrapolate that out using the average gold/silver ratio since 1973.
> 
> So, let me get this straight, you make investments on emotion? You do not look at the numbers that are going to drive the investment higher or lower. Yeah, I know "basic reasoning skill" what the hell is that beyond you pulling ideas out of your ass?!? "Dem 'puters use silver and everbody has a 'puter dese days". Give me a figgin' break. If you are going to be making suggestions for what people should invest in, get off your ass and do some research and come up with a reasonable thesis beyond "Peter Schiff said so."
> 
> In one of your earlier posts you offered up 3 or 4 different mining stocks that you thought were really hot. But I have yet to see a single analysis on any financials. I have yet to see anything on who is running the company. I have yet to see even a single ratio and why that is justified or why it will be going higher beyond stating a list of products that silver is used in.


First off, if I got you confused with another guy that was wrong to correct you by saying that, but correct about the prices and uses.

Here we go, you need to pull you head out of your ass, I said " The national debt has doubled since Obama took office, and the silver I purchased since then has rose about 25%, gold has rose about 30% " as a look as one of the many imbalances that make metals undervalued, I mentioned several, a general look at all these point for an idea of the big picture. That is not emotion that is looking at the prices not reflecting as they should if you assume those prices are correct. If it is emotion, its on your end. You started trying to talk down to me several times. Strait into it with an attitude and intellectual superiority as if talking to a child. Snowballing typing errors like its hieroglyphs, saying I called several people moron for not agreeing when if you read the first few post its is explained, saying my logic is because Schiff says so the post one of his reference sites to "set me staight" even if it is opposite of what I am saying. Your the one with emotion up your ass.

Also I like Schiff but I disagree with him here and there, especially on silver. He says gold is the way to go because it has always been money, I say silver due to rarity due to the reasons I listed. So again it is the opposite of "because Schiff said so", again opposite, as in I disagree (as in he believe one thing, I believe another). You didn't claim the photography thing however write some crap about computers like its no big deal which is close to saying its no big deal just like the photography guy. I believe with all electronic (including computers) all the other used it is a big deal. Plus you compare this drop in silver prices with the Hunts bothers. So you need to get off your ass and do some research! I didn't those parameters you had stated and then accused me of choosing them and claim I was "using the federal deficit ratio fro your number, since it is the most favorable to you"(as in me). You need to man up on this one, I did when I corrected something you didn't say now the shoe is on the other foot. One the stats to "clear up" thing, if I obviously don't agree with the prices, you didn't mention where you think it should be but I got the implication you didn't agree either. Why did you post the dam thing?

You forgot to address as for "calling people morons for not agreeing with me"&#8230;&#8230;If you read ALL the posts 4 times maybe you would see that isn't what I said. I explained it at least twice. If I explained it 2 time and you "have read this thread from beginning to end four times" that means you read that I was CALLED a moron FIRST and THEN called the guy a moron 8 times and you STILL managed to forget that when you posted that response. Also must have misread at least 4 times where I chose using the federal deficit ratio, M1 over M3, because I didn't say that once and again it opposite of what I or Schiff are saying.

And also the forgot to explain your claim about me recommending small firms or stocks in stocks in third-world cesspools. 
Also let me clear up the "Dem 'puters" thing. I gave many used for silver and they are correct. If you use something faster than you produce it you will have less and less till you are out. What don't you get? All the uses were correct and supply running out is correct.

You claimed maybe I need to see a tutor, you should come with me. Have you ever got the emails wehre ervey thnig si spleled worng btu yuor brian cna sitll raed ti becuase sihgt si baesd no meomry or where num63rs 8r3 us3d 1n p1ac3 0f 13tt3rs? The most human minds can understand this, but if a misspelled word or left an extra word (when I decided to cut a sentence and rewrite it so it could not be taken out of context) makes it look like hieroglyphs, not understandable or too confusing. In addition to that point, reading something 8 times because I wrote the explanation twice and you read it all 4 times (based on your words) then maybe these two things says more about you than me. So it seems your comprehension is "as bad as my English."


----------



## longrider

Thomas, I haven't read the other posts yet. I just want you to know that you don't call my friend Montana Farmer a moron without some backlash. If you disagree, fine. But don't go slinging words like that at my friend and a prepper who know's what the score is. You don't agree fine. Keep the name calling out. Period! I won't have it.


----------



## longrider

Now that I've read it all, and my eyes crossed! I think that you have something, Thomas, by investing in metals. Not in the paper, but in the mining itself. I don't agree with you getting so steamed about other's opinions, but whatever. Inor is very intellegent. I know him and have faith in his research and intelligence abilities. He's a good guy, as are most of the guys here. Lucky Jim, I'm still wondering about you - JUST KIDDING! I don't know about investing. I'm a dumby at math. I can balance my check book as it's basic adding and subtracting. I'll invest in land, as land will never go out of style. They aren't making any more of it. I can be mostly (I said MOSTLY) self-sufficient from it. Besides, I've always wanted some of my own. I'll have enough gold and silver put by (I hope) to pay taxes. And will defend it from others with my life. It will give me something worth while that I can pass on to my son and my future grandchild, who will arrive in February. But you've got me thinking now, Thomas. I might look into the mining business here in the states. I like to keep my money at home, not in Europe. Maybe I can find a Mom & Pop mine to invest in. Good luck to you all.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

I don't do that kind of stuff I want to say Montana and I had some exchanges and mirrored the insults thrown at me much like I've been doing to Inor. Montana and I cooled down, then we had a little reasonable debate and thats that, I believe Montana and I are cool now. To explain it my original agrument was Montana called me a moron, the post said someting like Just on the title alone or I don't need to even hear it or something it was the first response on this topic. I respond with the argument that someone must atlease listen to what is being said to call someone a moron, ("anyone who owns stock Ect. is a moron" obviously if I am telling people the few ways I see to do it with stocks I must be a moron) so I called him a moron for not even hearing me out before calling me a moron. I stand by that 100% at least hear someone out first is all I'm saying. It is fine to disagree, if I am wrong I will only learn it when someone points it out and reasonably debate back and forth. Some of the other guys got mad because he is "well known and respected" on this forum, that cool but well known and respected doesn't mean always right so I lashed back to all in the exact same manor. I'm never rude to someone acting respectful, and never respectful to someone acting rude.

Anyone and everyone here has the right to disagree, but must not be disrespectfully. It is one of the rules on this site, if someone is well known and respected they should be held to a higher standard, not a bunch of guys dogpiling a guy who shows up now and then with a different idea. This is about learning, we cannot learn by ignoring ideas. Preppers always say the most people don't bother to see what is going on, but what good is that when the shoe is on the other foot not to listen? I agree with the your feelings about name calling, I didn't stand for it either  but fair is fair, you need to tell them the same thing, maybe even for so being the instigators n the first place. Again I mean no disrespect to you at all longrider. You have not been disrespectful or rude to me at all but, tell them you won't have it with them either. They simply can not bash a guy just for looking at something from a different angle. Seniority or not they need to understand the rules apply to us all not just a new guy with a different idea

I never called anyone names here without it in my direction first. I'm not lying, seriously just look at any name I called them, then and look at what I responded to. You will see it in the exact same word (the name calling) in the comment I had just responded too, all the proof it there. All I wanted to do is put an idea on the table. It shouldn't have gone this far, but I didn't start it. I sure as hell had to stand up to defend my intelligence just like anyone else would. And yes, this guy is intelligent  , unfortunately my pride seems to be on the same level


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

To you long rider and all the others, I may be wrong but it is what I am doing with 10% of my cash the rest is in physical metals. I want to help as many Americans as I can. I would not recommend it if I didn't put the money where my mouth is. I seem to purchase alot of stock in senior mining companies at 10 year lows, they are rising too fast for me. If they rise I cannot buy as much. I buy to hold and keep getting paid for the metals the world needs. buying and selling is not my thing. Owning part or a company that produces materials the whole world needs and keep getting dividend check for the rest of my life crash or not IS my thing. watch the my vid look at the link in the description bar and make sure you understand the risk! If you have any questions ask me on the YouTube link. I am not an expert or a stock broker but I will give my honest opinion, and I do put my own money where my mouth is. It may not be right for everyone but at least hear it out. In prepping there is alot of learning and teaching, thats how we all got here right? all I can say is good luck guy, I think it will be bad and a few people cannot rebuild a nation This will take lots of people looking ahead not only for our families future but also the world we rebuild for them to live in right?


----------



## Inor

Mr Powers,

Let me clear up a few things. Yes - I was trying to make you look like an idiot. No - I do not think you ARE an idiot. But, it drives me absolutely crazy when somebody offers investment advice without providing a detailed analysis as to WHY whatever investment they are touting is a good investment. Too many people read public forums like this and go off and act on partial information without understanding what they doing. That creates bubbles. I figure if a reader can read through a 3-5 pages of very dry and statistic riddled diatribe of why any particular investment is a good idea, they have the tenacity (and sense) to do their own research too before throwing any money on the table.

The "dot-com" crash is a great example. That crash was not caused by the great big investment houses or the great big hedge funds. Hell, in Warren Buffet's '97 or '98 letter to his investors, he actually apologized to them because he had NOT invested in tech during the run up. The "dot-com" fiasco was caused by a big bunch of retail investors, guys like you and me investing relatively small amounts, that decided the share prices of companies did not have to be determined by their financial statements, but rather how cool their web site was. We all know how that turned out.

In case you care, yes - I did sit out the dot com thing even though I make my living in the IT world. - I could have made a killing because I knew what people were investing in was BS, but I was unsure of the timing of when it would collapse, so I sat it out. At the time, I was sure the Long Term Capital Management mess in '98 would precipitate it, even though LTCM was not at all involved in dot-com. It ran for another 2 1/2 years after that. - Kicking myself ever since because I could have rode that thing all the way up and shorted it all the way down and been retired by now.

You have asked several times about what I think is going to happen with the markets, so here is your answer... I haven't the foggiest idea. I have been all cash for a few months. I have some physical gold and some physical silver, but I have not bought or sold either since 2009. (One exception, I do travel almost every week for business and I always carry a roll of 90% silver quarters with me. Last winter I was stuck in Canada for over a week due to weather and business commitments the following week, and I sold a couple hundred dollars in quarters because I was running low on cash.)

There are WAY too many variables right now for me to be investing in anything. Depending on how much noise the Republicrats make before caving to the Dummycrats on the budget at the end of September may have a big effect on the markets. The Republicrat noise level before caving to the Dummycrats on the debt ceiling in October or November is also going to be a big one. Throw on top of that all of the crap in Egypt... Although Egypt does not have a drop of oil, for the last 2-3 weeks all of the oil traders are scared (with good reason) about them closing down the straight. The news today of the army killing 60 of them will not help that one. In short, sometimes the smartest investment is not to invest. That is the play that I am working at least until after September 30.

When I do invest (which is most of the time), I have some VERY strict rules that I follow:

1 - Always know my sell price before I buy. (I did break that rule with most of the physical metals I own now, and I am very sorry I did.)

2- With stocks, always use limit orders, *NEVER *market orders. If I miss out on a "_really good buy_"... Oh well.

3 - On stocks only - Always know everything about the company that I legally can. If the CEO is screwing interns in the secretary pool, I want to know about it.

4 - On stocks only - I make sure I understand and *trust* all of the financial statements. There is a company that I am really impressed with: Diageo plc. They own Johnny Walker scotch, Guinness beer, Capt Morgan rum, basically any liquor, wine or beer that has many levels of quality all with the same name, is likely owned by Diageo. They have been making money hand over fist for over a decade. From my perspective, their Income Statement, Balance Sheet and Statement of Cash Flows looks awesome. But I will not invest in them because they are a British company and I do not understand the British accounting laws well enough; the devil is always in the details when reading the books. I keep trying to convince myself that I should throw caution to the wind and pull the trigger on a couple hundred shares, but I cannot. But their current CEO is leaving, so it has been a bit easier lately.

5 - *NEVER *fall in love with any investment! If a play is not working as planned or new information comes out, be ready to turn a company that "you love" into a company that "you hate" and dump it at a moments notice. That is the problem I fell into in 2010 through 2012 with silver and gold. I had a bunch of $400 per oz gold and $8 per oz silver that I had bought in '05-'09 and I did not get rid of it when it reached $1900 and $38 respectively. Yeah, I am still way up, but if I had played it right I could have a lot more gold and silver now and not be out anything financially. Fortunately, I was smart enough to avoid doing what most people do in that situation and buy it all the way back down "because it is now a really good deal".

6 - Once I buy an investment, I spend a *minimum *of an hour per week, per investment, researching it to make sure the plan that I was playing is working. If it is not, I dump the investment. I am very definitely NOT a "buy and hold" guy; I am a "buy and homework" guy. When I am comfortable with the markets I normally own between 12 and 20 securities, you do the math on the time I spend. But even if you are only investing small amounts, you are building the habits for when you are investing larger amount, and that is the key.

Investing successfully on your own is HARD work and takes a lot of time. You can get by for a while not spending the time studying, but eventually it catches up with you.

Mr. Powers, I offer you a reading suggestion. I do not offer this as the condescending prick that I was in my previous posts, but rather I suggest it as a title that I think you would really enjoy and learn something from - I did. The book is: The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve: G. Edward Griffin: 9780912986456: Amazon.com: Books

The first half is an excellent description of the monetary system of the U.S. The second half is a bunch of conspiracy bullshit; but it is fun to read anyway.

Sorry for the drama but it was necessary I believe.


----------



## PalmettoTree

Inor said:


> Mr Powers,
> 
> Let me clear up a few things. Yes - I was trying to make you look like an idiot. No - I do not think you ARE an idiot. But, it drives me absolutely crazy when somebody offers investment advice without providing a detailed analysis as to WHY whatever investment they are touting is a good investment. Too many people read public forums like this and go off and act on partial information without understanding what they doing. That creates bubbles. I figure if a reader can read through a 3-5 pages of very dry and statistic riddled diatribe of why any particular investment is a good idea, they have the tenacity (and sense) to do their own research too before throwing any money on the table.
> 
> The "dot-com" crash is a great example. That crash was not caused by the great big investment houses or the great big hedge funds. Hell, in Warren Buffet's '97 or '98 letter to his investors, he actually apologized to them because he had NOT invested in tech during the run up. The "dot-com" fiasco was caused by a big bunch of retail investors, guys like you and me investing relatively small amounts, that decided the share prices of companies did not have to be determined by their financial statements, but rather how cool their web site was. We all know how that turned out.
> 
> In case you care, yes - I did sit out the dot com thing even though I make my living in the IT world. - I could have made a killing because I knew what people were investing in was BS, but I was unsure of the timing of when it would collapse, so I sat it out. At the time, I was sure the Long Term Capital Management mess in '98 would precipitate it, even though LTCM was not at all involved in dot-com. It ran for another 2 1/2 years after that. - Kicking myself ever since because I could have rode that thing all the way up and shorted it all the way down and been retired by now.
> 
> You have asked several times about what I think is going to happen with the markets, so here is your answer... I haven't the foggiest idea. I have been all cash for a few months. I have some physical gold and some physical silver, but I have not bought or sold either since 2009. (One exception, I do travel almost every week for business and I always carry a roll of 90% silver quarters with me. Last winter I was stuck in Canada for over a week due to weather and business commitments the following week, and I sold a couple hundred dollars in quarters because I was running low on cash.)
> 
> There are WAY too many variables right now for me to be investing in anything. Depending on how much noise the Republicrats make before caving to the Dummycrats on the budget at the end of September may have a big effect on the markets. The Republicrat noise level before caving to the Dummycrats on the debt ceiling in October or November is also going to be a big one. Throw on top of that all of the crap in Egypt... Although Egypt does not have a drop of oil, for the last 2-3 weeks all of the oil traders are scared (with good reason) about them closing down the straight. The news today of the army killing 60 of them will not help that one. In short, sometimes the smartest investment is not to invest. That is the play that I am working at least until after September 30.
> 
> When I do invest (which is most of the time), I have some VERY strict rules that I follow:
> 
> 1 - Always know my sell price before I buy. (I did break that rule with most of the physical metals I own now, and I am very sorry I did.)
> 
> 2- With stocks, always use limit orders, *NEVER *market orders. If I miss out on a "_really good buy_"... Oh well.
> 
> 3 - On stocks only - Always know everything about the company that I legally can. If the CEO is screwing interns in the secretary pool, I want to know about it.
> 
> 4 - On stocks only - I make sure I understand and *trust* all of the financial statements. There is a company that I am really impressed with: Diageo plc. They own Johnny Walker scotch, Guinness beer, Capt Morgan rum, basically any liquor, wine or beer that has many levels of quality all with the same name, is likely owned by Diageo. They have been making money hand over fist for over a decade. From my perspective, their Income Statement, Balance Sheet and Statement of Cash Flows looks awesome. But I will not invest in them because they are a British company and I do not understand the British accounting laws well enough; the devil is always in the details when reading the books. I keep trying to convince myself that I should throw caution to the wind and pull the trigger on a couple hundred shares, but I cannot. But their current CEO is leaving, so it has been a bit easier lately.
> 
> 5 - *NEVER *fall in love with any investment! If a play is not working as planned or new information comes out, be ready to turn a company that "you love" into a company that "you hate" and dump it at a moments notice. That is the problem I fell into in 2010 through 2012 with silver and gold. I had a bunch of $400 per oz gold and $8 per oz silver that I had bought in '05-'09 and I did not get rid of it when it reached $1900 and $38 respectively. Yeah, I am still way up, but if I had played it right I could have a lot more gold and silver now and not be out anything financially. Fortunately, I was smart enough to avoid doing what most people do in that situation and buy it all the way back down "because it is now a really good deal".
> 
> 6 - Once I buy an investment, I spend a *minimum *of an hour per week, per investment, researching it to make sure the plan that I was playing is working. If it is not, I dump the investment. I am very definitely NOT a "buy and hold" guy; I am a "buy and homework" guy. When I am comfortable with the markets I normally own between 12 and 20 securities, you do the math on the time I spend. But even if you are only investing small amounts, you are building the habits for when you are investing larger amount, and that is the key.
> 
> Investing successfully on your own is HARD work and takes a lot of time. You can get by for a while not spending the time studying, but eventually it catches up with you.
> 
> Mr. Powers, I offer you a reading suggestion. I do not offer this as the condescending prick that I was in my previous posts, but rather I suggest it as a title that I think you would really enjoy and learn something from - I did. The book is: The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve: G. Edward Griffin: 9780912986456: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> The first half is an excellent description of the monetary system of the U.S. The second half is a bunch of conspiracy bullshit; but it is fun to read anyway.
> 
> Sorry for the drama but it was necessary I believe.


Well said and good advice.


----------



## thomasdangerpowers

I like most of that advise myself. I much prefer a simple discussion. To answer that I didn't give much in the forum, thats what the vid was for. I explained what I was doing and why, where the basis came from, and a link to the portfolio. I the same one I used as reference (only as a starting point) that they could start from and do their own research. I am a nobody there is no way I could start a bubble. limit orders to buy is good for locking in a good price but I worry more about not getting what I want, and I have no plans to sell. My strategy is to buy a few specific stocks I have looked at for a long time but they were too high to buy enough shares to make the dividends count. Then they dropped to prices of the 08 crash or even lower, this was my chance and I figured others may have hoped for the same thing.

To be fair I also was a condescending prick, trying to make you look like an idiot ( maybe we are 2 peas in a pod  )I will check out the link. Believe me guys I have no problem learning from anyone. Intelligence - the ability to use existing knowledge to solve new problems. The more we learn the more we can solve. 

To anyone looking into investing IS hard work and you need to do research and understand the risk (losing some or all your money) but the upside is just the opposite. The portfolio I used as a basis is in a link in the description bar on the youtube video. like a poker game you can win or lose, you have to look at the cards and try and figure your odds of winning to losing when money is on the table. don't think you will make a fortune, my only goal is to set up buy now or during drops, reinvest all dividends. This will hopefully a set me up with steady income stream. S.S. is already running in the red, this is one of my many plans to set myself up. Nothing last forever including the coming crash. Good luck guys


----------

