# Bug in or bug out........bug in



## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Cleaning out the garage/workshop yesterday, I was thinking about prepping, and of the people speaking of bugging out. I know we all have a different story, some have family land, own land in the country.....ect. I also know we all have to remain flexible for who knows what the future may bring?
Yeah, I wish I had a 500 acre farm, with a home right smack in the middle. I wish anyone I would see near my home would either be family, visitors, or someone who should not be there, but alas, that is just not the case for me. I live on about 3 acres, on top of a hill, not the best growing land, but able to persuade some veggies out of the land. I don't consider myself a hoarder, but I do keep a lot of "working with" stuff that most anything that turns up I can usually handle it. Which brings me up to my main topic of this thread: my plan is to dig in and take my stand right here.....I'm buggin in! I just feel I have too many resources here to sensible walk away from.
As I wrote in my profile, I am not expecting an end of the known world type event, but do see much rougher times ahead. Times where we all will have to become more self-dependent and depend less on sociality. Funny, I sorta feel like being in one of those 60's westerns, where the good guys are trapped in an old ranch house being surrounded by bad guys. Good guys much decide if it's better to sneak off and make a run for it, or batten down the hatches and make their stand there. I think I am going to do the latter. Of course, all plans are subject to change.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

I believe part of prepping is being ready for whatever cards you get dealt. I plan to be able to bug in or bug out.

I would prefer to be able to bug in, but a static location is not always best - you can face problems with fire, tornadoes, hordes of evacuees, riots, fallout, etc.

You have to be able to adjust to changing circumstances, so I keep both bug in and bug out supplies and kits available. I spend a lot of time in the woods, and believe me, even with the best gear and a lot of knowledge, it still leaves a lot to be desired in terms of living conditions. A lot of people plan to switch from housing to the outdoors, and a lot of them have no idea what that will entail if it lasts beyond one week. 

I tend to plan for everything in multiple layers - an initial plan, a secondary or backup plan, and a tertiary or last-ditch-effort plan. 

I do have an ideal location to bug in, and I plan to remain until that is no longer possible. But I also plan to be able to leave and make things work out, just in case. If it is a true SHTF situation, you may have no other choice. Once the human swarm starts moving, it begins to consume whatever is in its path....


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I'll be someone's rear guard, . . . or first echelon, . . . depends on how things go down.

Too old to do much bugging out, . . . plus probably too cranky and obstinate. They want my place, . . . my weapon, . . . my food, . . . they can have it, . . . but they better bring their big check book, . . . the little one won't be suffficient.

They may get in, . . . but it will be costly, . . . my hope is that I can make it costly enough up front that they go looking for easier pickings.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## pastornator (Apr 5, 2013)

It was this thread that drew me into the forum... I'm definitely in favor of bugging in versus bugging out. Now, granted, one may be forced to leave, but I'd rather defend my prepared place -- carefully selected because of the long-term viability of the community -- than just take to the woods, etc. Now, if one's bug out location was a great cabin on a nice lake, I could be convinced to change my mind, but I already have that... 

I have most of what it takes to live at home. No way to move all my tools, equipment, heating, water, gardens, etc., to a BOL without some heavy-duty means and if it comes to BO, then those means are rather doubtful. I live in a tiny village that has NOTHING to offer the outside world. People that live 20 miles away don't even know that we exist because we are tucked into a crease of a valley off the beaten path. We don't even have a bar... But, the community has been in existence since 1860 and they did just fine pre-grid with the abundant natural resources at hand. Within easy walking distance of my home, I have a mill pond with fish, a class A trout stream that is the only reproducing stream in my state, a dam with the potential for hyrdo power, 5 largish apple orchards, plenty of wildlife (we're on a major flyway and are inundated with fowl muliple times a year), good water that is easy to access from not-too-deep wells (still lots of hand pumps around on farms), tons of farm animals (about 1000 cows for every resident of this area!), and a particularly good growing soil. My home was built just at the cusp of the grid, and is still "old school" with thick walls, double chimney, etc. We currently heat with wood (pellet stove) and future plans include alternative wood heat in the case that pellets are no longer viable. Easy turnaround to natural wood insert for the fireplace, etc.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

You seem to be in really great shape for buggin in. About the problem I could imagine for you, would be people trying to infringe on whats yours. Truly, I hope nothing really bad ever happens in our country, and all this being prepared will be unnecessary, but if it does, I'm afraid, in worse case, there might be hoards of people fleeing to the country for salvation. These people might not be asking for where they can live or what they can have, but ready to take it. Of course, if it does come to something so dramatic, it will be a problem we'll all have to face, let's pray, it never comes to that.


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## pastornator (Apr 5, 2013)

I understand the infringement concept. That is part of what I mean when I say that I am not a "radical" prepper. You see, my preps are more geared to making a life by working than to going into the stock room and dragging out MRE from a huge storehouse. Not sure anyone really wants what I have to offer, as it takes good old-fashioned work. Want water? Run to the lake with a bucket and filter it... Want to eat? There is a turkey trap a mile out of town on the left...


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I think your beliefs are what they ate due to the ideal situation you have. If you live in an edgy neighborhood in a rather large town or small city that is on the direct path about 3,000,000 bats (bay area transplants) will use to get to the hills then no amount of fire power is going to protect a 1950s stucco exterior and brick home on a 12,000 sq foot lot. Since a BOL has been in my family from the mid 70's that's always been my plan and in fact I've studied as many feasible road routes as possible, bike routes and how to hoof it. I take bugging out probably as serious as you take bugging in and it's all good. 

My dear brother who has to bug about 1500 miles out always laughs at my fear of flying. He will get to our BOL faster than I will at 360 miles. He pretty much maintains his plain and license to fly just for it. He tells me I'm going to wait too long and get caught at home. I don't agree but I told him, if it does happen and it goes bad I'll just take as many of the uglies with meas I can. That way there maybe won't be enough for the next guy.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Each possible SHTF situation will need a response of its own. You must be ready to bug in or bug out depending on the situation. You might be have to bug in for a day, or a week or a month and then bug out. If terrorists nuked Chicago, I'd have to bug out.


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## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

Ripon said:


> I think your beliefs are what they ate due to the ideal situation you have. If you live in an edgy neighborhood in a rather large town or small city that is on the direct path about 3,000,000 bats (bay area transplants) will use to get to the hills then no amount of fire power is going to protect a 1950s stucco exterior and brick home on a 12,000 sq foot lot. Since a BOL has been in my family from the mid 70's that's always been my plan and in fact I've studied as many feasible road routes as possible, bike routes and how to hoof it. I take bugging out probably as serious as you take bugging in and it's all good.
> 
> My dear brother who has to bug about 1500 miles out always laughs at my fear of flying. He will get to our BOL faster than I will at 360 miles. He pretty much maintains his plain and license to fly just for it. He tells me I'm going to wait too long and get caught at home. I don't agree but I told him, if it does happen and it goes bad I'll just take as many of the uglies with meas I can. That way there maybe won't be enough for the next guy.


The question about your brother's plane is this: Can he fly 1500 miles non-stop?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I don't remember the TV show, but in a Bug In situation, the home owner threw stuff around the front yard including a TV and a speaker from a stereo, etc. to make it look like his house had already been looted. Seems like a reasonable ploy. Due to my age and a few health issues, my first choice would be to Bug In.


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## pastornator (Apr 5, 2013)

Ripon said:


> I think your beliefs are what they ate due to the ideal situation you have. If you live in an edgy neighborhood in a rather large town or small city that is on the direct path about 3,000,000 bats (bay area transplants) will use to get to the hills then no amount of fire power is going to protect a 1950s stucco exterior and brick home on a 12,000 sq foot lot. Since a BOL has been in my family from the mid 70's that's always been my plan and in fact I've studied as many feasible road routes as possible, bike routes and how to hoof it. I take bugging out probably as serious as you take bugging in and it's all good.


I can certainly identify with your problem. We were living in the Louisville Metro area and bugging out from there would have been a shoot out!

I also work on the north side of Milwaukee, which is the most segregated city in America. If something akin to an EMP strike occured while I was at work, it would take an army tank to get me safely out of that zone! It is a war zone on a good day (6 shootings last night within a 2 mile radius of my location). I'm working on a new job 10 minutes from my home. That will help immensely and is easily within a half-day walk if it came to that. Most problems I'd face there are cows that escaped from their non-working electric fence. :mrgreen:

My area is also VERY conservative politically, 99% of the homes have firearms and know how to use them, and the general populace is self-sufficient in a natural way (they are not all preppers, but there are some I've identified by the setup of their homestead), in other words, they, for the most part, farmers or ex-farmers who are accustomed to living with the land. We have a handful of city folk who have made this small village a bedroom community, but they won't be a problem. Not enough of them to matter.



Ripon said:


> My dear brother who has to bug about 1500 miles out always laughs at my fear of flying. He will get to our BOL faster than I will at 360 miles. He pretty much maintains his plain and license to fly just for it. He tells me I'm going to wait too long and get caught at home. I don't agree but I told him, if it does happen and it goes bad I'll just take as many of the uglies with meas I can. That way there maybe won't be enough for the next guy.


If I were you, knowing what we all know now, I'd be looking for new work and to relocate to a place where a dude can stay alive...


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Moonshinedave said:


> I live on about 3 acres, on top of a hill, not the best growing land, but able to persuade some veggies out of the land... my plan is to dig in and take my stand right here.....I'm buggin in! I just feel I have too many resources here to sensible walk away from....


A neat 3 acres out of town is something most city-dwellers like me can only dream about, you don't need to bug out because you're ALREADY bugged out..


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

the thing is, bugging in is going to be impossible really without a proper and equipped compound. At least your house will have to be hardened like a fortress or it's gonna be rough, I know I am planning on bugging in till it's not possible but I know that my location is pretty dangerous and I'm crippled and slow. This place has no hardening other than some serious firepower.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Leon said:


> the thing is, bugging in is going to be impossible really without a proper and equipped compound. At least your house will have to be hardened like a fortress or it's gonna be rough, I know I am planning on bugging in till it's not possible but I know that my location is pretty dangerous and I'm crippled and slow. This place has no hardening other than some serious firepower.


Hey leon, I think thats where community comes into play...I don't think anybody can truely harden a home without it becoming a trap or a prison...so hardening ones home to withstand TEOTWAWKI would quickly become an expensive exercise in tomb building. One can strengthen doors and windows and such, which they should do anyway but to truely harden a home...is well...pointless...

There is safety in numbers and a small community can absorb or repel an attack far better than a single dwelling. People will quickly come to undersand that reasoning, and that even though they live in seperate homes which are easily defeated, together they can provide a fairly effective front to repel home invaders, thugs and thiefs...thats the best one could hope for. Of course having some serious fire power doesn't hurt...lol


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## grinder37 (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm lucky enough to live in an area where bugging in "should" be better than bugging out,remote,have prepping neighbors,land that is gardened,several sources of good water and we're in the country off a non-main road on the edge of a very large national forest.All 3 families including mine have members with health issues as well.Bugging out is a last ditch effort for us.But thats ok,we're well organised country folk and dug in deep with several redundant plans with the advantage of the terrain and multiple families for most any unwelcomed guest ;-).

Weather disaster though?That would all just go by what we're dealt as to stay or go,nobody can plan for all disasters.


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## pastornator (Apr 5, 2013)

Wondering how much of the "conventional wisdom" on bugging out or in is based on fictional accounts versus reality?


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## grinder37 (Mar 1, 2013)

pastornator said:


> Wondering how much of the "conventional wisdom" on bugging out or in is based on fictional accounts versus reality?


Until some tragic event happens,it's all fictional.And it will depend on that event as to what any one of us would do,turning fiction into reality,but nobody knows exactly what (or if) will happen and you'll have to deal with the hand you are dealt.But with so many looming real possibilities,like the quote goes-"those who fail to prepare are only preparing to fail.


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## pastornator (Apr 5, 2013)

grinder37 said:


> Until some tragic event happens,it's all fictional.And it will depend on that event as to what any one of us would do,turning fiction into reality,but nobody knows exactly what (or if) will happen and you'll have to deal with the hand you are dealt.But with so many looming real possibilities,like the quote goes-"those who fail to prepare are only preparing to fail.


I think that most of us grasp that... But, two thoughts go through my mind. First, many of the fictional accounts are written to be as devestating as possible and may not actually reflect reality. Second, I'm not sure who -- except the written in heroes of those stories -- could actually survive what they write about.

After that, it will be both better and worse than we can imagine!


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

IMHO, I look at the odds of bugging out as being only 1 in 4. Most scenarios that I can imagine, I end being at home , one way or another. 
As a budding author, in my spare time, pastornator has hit the proverbial on the head. I wrote a SHTF story and the hero survives the event, the bad guys, the good guys who've gone off the reservation, etc. because he is the hero. A story about sitting at home, hiding to survive wouldn't sell many books.


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## pastornator (Apr 5, 2013)

paraquack said:


> IMHO, I look at the odds of bugging out as being only 1 in 4. Most scenarios that I can imagine, I end being at home , one way or another.
> As a budding author, in my spare time, pastornator has hit the proverbial on the head. I wrote a SHTF story and the hero survives the event, the bad guys, the good guys who've gone off the reservation, etc. because he is the hero. A story about sitting at home, hiding to survive wouldn't sell many books.


In most of the books, those people hunkering down and making it are in the periphery of the story, but seldom part of the story itself. One Minute After may be one of the more realistic scenarios, as it shows a community working together to do something, albeit with many hardships and lots of life-changing devastation. A common meme that I find in most fictional works is that "everything" useful is automatically gone after a SHTF event. That is probably not reality unless we are actually nuked, and then there is also little chance of a hero to write about.

I expect that communities will loose a lot of their people early on -- those needing the grid or medicines, etc. -- but the rest would band together, figure out alternative heating, start huting/gathering/growing to meet food needs, and pretty much recreate society at about 1890s levels or above. ALL of what is known about how to run the world would not be lost and creative individuals WILL figure out ways to restore power locally, etc. The hard part would be returning to manual labor for most everything. We've grown soft as a society. Sort of like that Dodge commercial run during the Superbowl, "It Takes a Farmer..." That would be most everyone's life post event.


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## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

I think philosophically speaking, we're all bugging in. The question is are you bugging in at the location you presently live in or do you have to move to get there? The only difference between bugging out and bugging in is the travel. I currently rent in a different state from where all of my family lives. I have no incentive or desire to stick around. If anything major happened, anyone left alive in my family would immediately head for our cabin provided it isn't a nuclear event.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

pastornator said:


> Wondering how much of the "conventional wisdom" on bugging out or in is based on fictional accounts versus reality?


Bugging out is a short term solution, if one needs to get out of an area for a cou[ple of days a week and wait for things to settle down then they bug out. If someone needs to get home or travel to another loaction then they bug out.

It's an option worth consideration but only as a last resort or as a necessity by circumstance. The conventional wisdom of bugging out is that if one stays they die, if they leave the stand a chance however slim.

If you are going to put everything on the table for discussion then what to do in worst case scenarios (bugging out) becomes a viable topic.

If one lists their options in order from best to worst, Best being nothing happens and we simply maintain supplies worst being death. I think you'd find bugging out is near the bottom of the list.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I think that living in a city makes people much more dependent on each other. Everyone supplying a goods or service for the other. Added all up together, gives everyone, pretty much everything they may want or need. This system works great as long as there isn't a break in the normal, whereas people would have to be dependent on one's self for food water......ect. might be a big problem.
Ok, in today's world, we in the country also depend on sociality for most of the things we want/need. I do grow a modest garden, but by far almost all my food comes from a supermarket, just like city folks. The difference arise is what could be done, if it became necessary. With city dwellers, there isn't much wiggle room, and bugging out would have to be the only option. I could see a major exodus from city to country. Now brings up another big question, you might legally own that 250 acres your home sits on, but what are you gonna do when you find that family of four camping out on the far end, because that is the only way they can survive? Hopefully, this will only be things we can talk about in a forum, and decisions we won't have make for real.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I don't know that people in the cities would bug out...They may stick around waiting for aid, which theoretically would go to the cities first. It's one of those things that I'm curious about yet wouldn't want to see put to the test...


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

If they stay put and the aid is slow in coming, it might thin the herd a little.


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## prep2death (Apr 10, 2013)

Personally if shit really starts to hit the fan Im buggin out. The way things are going I totally see north america becoming a warzone, with massive unemployment and bandits running wild. In a martial law situation like this I think Id be better off in a country that is already pretty lawless, maybe somewhere in south america or asia.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

That is why I moved from a big city to this small town surrounded by farms, orchards, and vinyards. I can get help from the folks who live around me and in return help them with the stuff they need. I am already "bugged out" so I will be bugging in.


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## Cs_Phobia (Apr 22, 2013)

I have never thought of that before. I will be keeping an eye out for busted up TV's, DVD players and stereos for that reason thanks.


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