# Medicine for dummys?



## Plumbum

As im new to prepping I ofc have alot of issues to attend. In last month I have addressed water storage and pruification and expanded the food supply from 2 week to 2-3 months and what I now feel is at the top of the list is medical emergencies. The only medical training I have is the basics from the army on how to stop bleading etc, and to be honest I dont remeber much of it. Where to I go from here, recomended reading materials, supplies etc?

Greatful for any advice


----------



## Moonshinedave

Not a medical person either. What I did was purchase a large tool bag and fill it with lots of basic first aid supplies. Don't forget stuff like scissors, tape, needles thread, ......hardware stuff. Of course getting first aid reading material wouldn't be a bad idea either. I have no plans of becoming a doctor, but I could fix someone up enough to perhaps get them to someone who is.


----------



## Illini Warrior

nothing can really replace actual training, knowledge and practice - but - you can prep in the correct direction by expanding your library to include medical texts written for the layperson ....

Books and Resources | Hesperian Health Guides

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ship-captains-medical-guide

THE SHIP'S MEDICINE CHEST AND MEDICAL AID AT SEA


----------



## paraquack

This link Books and Resources | Hesperian Health Guides 
has a few real good downloadable books on medicine.
I highly recommend them.


----------



## Camel923

http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-Is-No-Doctor/dp/0942364155

Any old medical text book on pathology and physical diagnosis, medicinal plants native to your area medicinal herbs.


----------



## Plumbum

Moonshinedave said:


> Not a medical person either. What I did was purchase a large tool bag and fill it with lots of basic first aid supplies. Don't forget stuff like scissors, tape, needles thread, ......hardware stuff. Of course getting first aid reading material wouldn't be a bad idea either. I have no plans of becoming a doctor, but I could fix someone up enough to perhaps get them to someone who is.


I have done the same, I have a bag stuffed with first aid kits, painkillers, imodium etc. I was thinking more along the line of dealing with infections and such in a senario when professional help isnt an possibility.


----------



## Plumbum

Camel923 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-Is-No-Doctor/dp/0942364155
> 
> Any old medical text book on pathology and physical diagnosis, medicinal plants native to your area medicinal herbs.


Thx, It was something like that I hade in mind. Looked it up 3 million copys in 50 languages it must be relevant information.


----------



## Plumbum

Another thing that crossed my mind is a medical dictionary over substances and their use. In Sweden we have something called FASS that the Doc's use to look up drugs in, I wonder there is a international English version of it? Lets say you want to buy prescription drugs over the net that are not sold here.


----------



## Blendingin

Plumbum said:


> Another thing that crossed my mind is a medical dictionary over substances and their use. In Sweden we have something called FASS that the Doc's use to look up drugs in, I wonder there is a international English version of it? Lets say you want to buy prescription drugs over the net that are not sold here.


I would be very careful about what you try to self prescribe, this could be very dangerous.

there are many drug books out there. I personally use the Mosbey's drug handbook for nurses. gives general information about the medication as well as the usual dosage of each medication.


----------



## Sasquatch

I just got recertified in CPR and first aid. That might be a good starting point for you. As far as reading materials, two I have in my library are Where There Is No Doctor and Special Operations Forces Medical Handbook.


----------



## stevekozak

TiredNurse should be able to give some good advice on this. If she, you know, is not too tired! (Weak joke)


----------



## Grim Reality

To help you to understand what you read in any medical text, there exists a book commonly known as
"Taber's Medical Dictionary". It will define / explain the terminology you will encounter. Medicine has
a complete vernacular all it's own.

I will repeat the recommendation for "Where There Is No Doctor" It is a top-notch reference. A companion
book of equal merit is "Where There Is No Dentist". I give them my highest personal rating. In addition 
to those a standard of the industry is what's known as a "PDR"...or "Physician's Desk Reference". If you do
not get Taber's Medical Dictionary, do not get a PDR. You will not understand it without a book like Taber's
to help you "translate" it. It is an encyclopedic reference telling you almost everything you will need to
know about drugs from the various manufacturers. And by that I mean nearly EVERY drug out there which
is currently being made. While it may be ponderous...it is FULL of good info. It is published yearly...so get
the most recent version you can find, but anything within the last 5-6 years will probably be fine. Meds in
other countries may include many which are not present in the next.

If you have a college nearby which offers a curriculum of medical training you may find many books in their
bookstore which could be of value...naturally, I cannot know what they may have ahead of time.

Talk to your local pharmacist, your doctor, nurses, etcetera. They may have ideas which will be helpful
and may be in you native language...though your command of English is excellent. Many ER Physician's
carry with them a small book which suggests the latest drug regimens. That is to say, WHICH drugs are
recommended for WHICH illness. Do some searching...you may locate that...it will be very helpful. Get
yourself some basic tools...a Stethoscope, Suturing instruments, Betadine, a Sphymomanometer (a blood
pressure cuff) and so forth.

At your local drug store ('Chemist' in places like England, Pharmacy in the USA) pickup a variety of OTC 
(over-the-counter) medications. Things like Benadryl (diphenhydramine) will be useful for treating 
allergic reactions and perhaps be a helpful sleeping aid as well. Ace (elastic) Bandages are useful for 
wrapping joints when a sprain has been sustained. They accelerate healing. Never make them tight, 
proper blood circulation should never be interrupted. Topical antiseptics (a common one here is known 
as Bacitracin or Neosporin but they can have other names as well) can help to protect lacerations from 
infection.

The list is very...VERY.......llllooonnnggg! But, at least, you have a place to start.

Good luck!

Grim


----------



## Targetshooter

I have a Army medic bag and trauma bag with extras and the Army medical hand book with other books from a nurse friend .


----------



## Will2

Targetshooter said:


> I have a Army medic bag and trauma bag with extras and the Army medical hand book with other books from a nurse friend .


Here are some other US forces Handbooks, this has me curious if there are other militaries medical handbooks out there too, such as British, French, Russian, etc..
Not sure if these are published annually or not

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/milmed/sfhandbook.pdf
http://www.nh-tems.com/documents/Manuals/SOF_Medical_Handbook.pdf
again
http://www.patriotresistance.com/Ranger_Medic_Handbook_2007_1_.pdf
Stealth Survival : Free Downloads - US Army Special Forces Medical Handbook
Military Medical Education and Training Textbooks

There is also medical tasks on this page
us joint services manuals

I'm sure there are tons and tons of others.

No shortage of information. Only a shortage on learning.

Now bear in mind field expedient medicine, and first aid, combat treatment etc.. IS not what most people would think "medicine is"

combat medics, paramedics, firs aid responders and trauma personnel are in essence there to categorize and exercise preventative measures they do not practice long term recovery medicine, or treatment for non-traumatic, non-life threatening issues normally.

Medical practice and first responder treatment will likely require a different set of skills.

Personally I've learned the most on medicine from studying first nations and premodern medicine, mostly herbal, however I am not a naturopath, and not and expert by any means. I know some plants and I know some fungi, not much else.

In general if SHTF goes down, then low production medicines will disappear and less effective, or treatments with more side effects that can be naturally sourced will be called on.

I think more people will rely on not highly chemistry laden medical treatments closer to pioneer medicine, or indigenous folk medicine.

People with competent levels of chemistry will be very useful, but without processing equipment won't be able to do much.

In general my completely non-authoritative opinion is that you should look at pioneer medicine and folk medicine, while cross analyzing it, striking off the list known "fake treatments" and supplanting that with the most available natural remedies.

I would start by research medical applications of every plant you know by name.

The military particularly related to special forces provide some of the more current up to date medical practice reports, not all the common treatments are standardized, however most of the advanced treatments are not going to be within reach of people without vast resources. For example there are some effect advanced treatments that if not done correctly would likely kill someone who might live otherwise, but to be realistic, most people here will not be able to save a serious trauma victim and people will have a very short time to get people to advanced care.

Blood stops such as tourniquets will result in limb loss if not done effectively, so will not be used unless the person will die without it, not simply because it is a standard because care is available in time.
Most treatment would be for debilitating conditions that are not fatal but chronic and over the long term debilitating, such as worms, fungal infections, and parasites.

Knowning things like cedar might be useful.

Meanwhile any poisonings are likely to be treated with charcoal and a purgative , which is often what emergency rooms will do. both of which can be effective. However having a large feather may not be in everyone purgative kit, it is historically effective.

None the less here are lots of things that are not used anymore because they are not effective with more technical options. None the less for most of us, any treatment will not be curative treatment but rather it will be a stopgap either it will remove the attack enough to allow someone to survive, or it won't be effective and they will die.

Sadly most of the medicines that would allow effective treatment are scheduled substances that we do not have availability to legally. Thus older treatements that are less safe must be learned and used.

I don't have any good single resource on first nations medicine, I encountered it over a bunch of years in piecemeal mostly while learning about individual plants. Here some some links though

http://www.fnha.ca/documents/gwvi_tfm_presentation.pdf
http://www.nativewomenscentre.com/files/Traditional_Teachings_Booklet.pdf
http://www.sixnationsfarmersmarket.com/gardening_growing_the_medicines.php

Each native group has a slightly different basket but some common medicine wheel ideas that are ancient I suggest you research whatever tribe is local to your area or any areas you indend to go to. Bear in mind that you should look for what tribe was local prior to 1600, ideally prior to 1400 also, as there was a lot of migration between 1500 and 1900.

A search of major invasive species by state will give you a secondary list of plants to research for their origin of location or migration usages as plants that have invaded from places such as Asia may have traditional Asian medicine usages. Note that western, Asian, and native medicines all are different traditional schools so you should research the fundamentals of all these medicines to understand how they are suppose to be used, it isn't just chemical but also physiological.

Surprisingly ceremonies such as the Ayuhuasca do have real medical benefits, that most people don't even think of such as decalcification of the pineal gland, while other aspects may have deworming aspects. Common ailments of yesteryear are often woven into some of these ceremonies. Tobacco sweet grass ect is an antiinsecticide also. Many of these medicines now have known effects. The body itself is a curing agent, things such as fasting reset the immune system, there are lots of little aspects of tribal medicines that arn't common practices of traditional medicine but an effective regime of treatments can actually give much better odds of recovery than without what otherwise just looks like witchdoctor scammery. It really isn't it does do things to the body and mind that allow synergistic healing.


----------



## Kauboy

Grim Reality said:


> To help you to understand what you read in any medical text, there exists a book commonly known as
> "Taber's Medical Dictionary". It will define / explain the terminology you will encounter. Medicine has
> a complete vernacular all it's own.
> 
> I will repeat the recommendation for "Where There Is No Doctor" It is a top-notch reference. A companion
> book of equal merit is "Where There Is No Dentist". I give them my highest personal rating. In addition
> to those a standard of the industry is what's known as a "PDR"...or "Physician's Desk Reference". If you do
> not get Taber's Medical Dictionary, do not get a PDR. You will not understand it without a book like Taber's
> to help you "translate" it. It is an encyclopedic reference telling you almost everything you will need to
> know about drugs from the various manufacturers. And by that I mean nearly EVERY drug out there which
> is currently being made. While it may be ponderous...it is FULL of good info. It is published yearly...so get
> the most recent version you can find, but anything within the last 5-6 years will probably be fine. Meds in
> other countries may include many which are not present in the next.
> 
> If you have a college nearby which offers a curriculum of medical training you may find many books in their
> bookstore which could be of value...naturally, I cannot know what they may have ahead of time.
> 
> Talk to your local pharmacist, your doctor, nurses, etcetera. They may have ideas which will be helpful
> and may be in you native language...though your command of English is excellent. Many ER Physician's
> carry with them a small book which suggests the latest drug regimens. That is to say, WHICH drugs are
> recommended for WHICH illness. Do some searching...you may locate that...it will be very helpful. Get
> yourself some basic tools...a Stethoscope, Suturing instruments, Betadine, a Sphymomanometer (a blood
> pressure cuff) and so forth.
> 
> At your local drug store ('Chemist' in places like England, Pharmacy in the USA) pickup a variety of OTC
> (over-the-counter) medications. Things like Benadryl (diphenhydramine) will be useful for treating
> allergic reactions and perhaps be a helpful sleeping aid as well. Ace (elastic) Bandages are useful for
> wrapping joints when a sprain has been sustained. They accelerate healing. Never make them tight,
> proper blood circulation should never be interrupted. Topical antiseptics (a common one here is known
> as Bacitracin or Neosporin but they can have other names as well) can help to protect lacerations from
> infection.
> 
> The list is very...VERY.......llllooonnnggg! But, at least, you have a place to start.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Grim


+1 on the PDR suggestion.
I was able to get a 2013 version off eBay from a Goodwill store for something like $13. It was a steal.


----------



## Kauboy

Illini Warrior said:


> nothing can really replace actual training, knowledge and practice - but - you can prep in the correct direction by expanding your library to include medical texts written for the layperson ....
> 
> Books and Resources | Hesperian Health Guides
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ship-captains-medical-guide
> 
> THE SHIP'S MEDICINE CHEST AND MEDICAL AID AT SEA


Wow, that first link has a ton of literature.
I grabbed a Firefox plugin to download them all. 400+MB!
Now to calculate the cost to print them. :mrgreen:


----------



## Medic33

best advice I can give is learn how to treat and prevent environmental injuries like frost bite, heat stroke, most of the first aid you learn in the military will be sufficient.
Dorland's medical dictionary I think is what your looking for.
if you want to learn more pick up an emt or a basic first aid class that includes cpr.
learn how to recognize and treat infection not just wounds but stuff like food poisoning and ear infections about 90% of the diseases that bring a person down are ear eye nose and throat they progress from there to the lungs and other areas.
just some FYI


----------



## Plumbum

Blendingin said:


> I would be very careful about what you try to self prescribe, this could be very dangerous.
> 
> there are many drug books out there. I personally use the Mosbey's drug handbook for nurses. gives general information about the medication as well as the usual dosage of each medication.


Absolutly, im fully aware that I cand do more harm then good playing with antibiotics. The Doc always takes blood for a infection test to make what sure what you are dealing with and thats somthing I cant do myselfe. But I would like to have some stuff stored away, there is the possibility fo a proffesional at hand but withour drugs to administer. And above all I would like to learn more about medicin as a whole. Hurting ppl is easy amd healing is the hard part so even basic skills can turn out to be valuable.


----------



## SittingElf

From "He who's name cannot be mentioned"...



> *combat medics*, paramedics, firs aid responders and trauma personnel are in essence there to categorize and exercise preventative measures *they do not practice long term recovery medicine, or treatment for non-traumatic, non-life threatening issues normally*.


Absolutely *NOT* true!!! Combat medics do a LOT more than just treat and "categorize" (called "TRIAGE") troops in combat. They also work in clinics, hospitals, dispensaries, and SF / SO medics also work in with indigenous populations, diagnosing and treating any number of things without Docs or PA's....Navy independent Corpsmen may be the only medical practitioners on any number of ships and that is their NORMAL job, not just occasionally or in an emergency.

A read of primarily military medical handbooks and texts.....especially the SF medical handbook (The earlier version of which was our textbook in 300F1) will provide an exceptional amount of clinical education on everything from trauma to diseases and prevention. It's what *AMERICAN *Medics DO.... I have no idea about the rest of the world's medics, but specifically SF/SO/Delta medics (18D's) provide full medical practice both on the field and to civilian populations.


----------



## Kauboy

SittingElf said:


> From "He who's name cannot be mentioned"...
> 
> Absolutely *NOT* true!!!


Oh, you've gone and done it now.


----------



## Plumbum

Kauboy said:


> Oh, you've gone and done it now.


Argee, if this persons name cant be metioned he must be a whack job and its dangerous to piss of ppl clinging to the last straw of sanity!


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> From "He who's name cannot be mentioned"...
> 
> Absolutely *NOT* true!!!


Liar.

The primary role of 68W healthcare specialists in the U.S. Army is providing medical treatment to wounded soldiers. Other nations and services also have similarly-trained personnel, but this discussion and the following details apply only to those within the United States Army. These medics serve as the basic or first tier of the Army medical system accompanying units as small as platoons (approximately 12-40 soldiers) during training and deployments. Medics provide initial emergency medical care, evacuation, and supervision to other soldiers with medical training (such as Combat Lifesavers) as well as provide medical advice to unit chains of command.

In addition to first responder or combat medical support, medics provide paraprofessional care in medical treatment facilities-battalion aid stations, clinics, hospitals, etc.--to soldiers, military dependents, and authorized civilian personnel. In this capacity, healthcare specialists work under the supervision and purview of physician assistants and physicians and alongside other medical professionals

Healthcare specialists are initially trained as Nationally Registered Emergency Medical Technicians (at the EMT-B level) with additional training in trauma and Army specific techniques and procedures

Emergency medical technician (EMT) or ambulance technician are terms used in some countries to denote a health care provider of emergency medical services.[1] EMTs are clinicians, trained to respond quickly to emergency situations regarding medical issues, traumatic injuries and accident scenes. Under the British System and those that are influenced by it, are referred to as Ambulance technician (often shortened to tech), whereas in the American system and its influenced countries, it is known as Emergency medical technician.

EMT-Basic
Course Description

This course is the required course for any person seeking to become a state certified Emergency Medical Technician - Basic (EMT-B). The course is based on the Department of Transportation's (DOT) 1994 EMT-Basic curriculum. This course has been developed for individuals who desire to perform emergency medical care.

Next course dates

Why choose us for this training?

The course must be taught by a state of Massachusetts approved EMT- Basic Instructor-Coordinator. This course is a minimum of 110 hours in length and consists of both lecture and practical sessions. See EMT-B Course Information for specifics on dates and times for our next course.

The material covered in this course is divided into 7 modules. They are: Preparatory, Airway Management, Patient Assessment, Medical Emergencies, Trauma Emergencies, Infants and Children and Operations. A brief description of each module follows.

Module 1 - Preparatory 
Topics covered in this module are: EMS systems, the role of the EMT-Basic, the safety and well-being of the EMT-Basic, legal and ethical issues, basic anatomy and physiology, techniques of lifting and moving patients.

Module 2 - Airway Management
Topics covered in this module are: airway anatomy, airway management techniques, oxygen and oxygen equipment

Module 3 - Patient Assessment
Topics covered in this module are: assessment of the medical and trauma patients, vital sign assessment, taking a patient history, documentation, and communication

Module 4 - Medical Emergencies
Topics covered in this module are: pharmacology, respiratory, cardiac, diabetic, allergy, poisoning and overdose, environmental, behavioral and obstetrical / gynecological emergencies

Module 5 - Trauma Emergencies
Topics covered in this module are: bleeding and shock, soft tissue and musculoskeletal injuries, injuries to the head, neck, spine, chest and abdomen.

Module 6 - Infants & Children
Topics covered in this module are: physical and physiological differences between adult and pediatric patients, pediatric medical and trauma emergencies

Module 7 - Operations
Topics covered in this module are: ambulance operations, rescue and extrication, multiple patient situations, hazardous materials situations

I used the word COMBAT medic don't try to twist my words to mean Military Doctor, two totally different things.

You lack basic comprehension if you in anyway took my list of persons to include Medical Doctors working for the military, Combat Medics are not Medical Doctors, and you are out of touch with reality if you think that is the case.

Medicine IS NOT TRIAGE AND TRAUMA, sorry try again.

READ MY POST AGAIN. Clearly your comprehension skills are lacking

Quote Originally Posted by Targetshooter View Post
I have a Army medic bag and trauma bag with extras and the Army medical hand book with other books from a nurse friend .
Here are some other US forces Handbooks, this has me curious if there are other militaries medical handbooks out there too, such as British, French, Russian, etc..
Not sure if these are published annually or not

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/milmed/sfhandbook.pdf
http://www.nh-tems.com/documents/Man...l_Handbook.pdf
again
http://www.patriotresistance.com/Ran...ok_2007_1_.pdf
Stealth Survival : Free Downloads - US Army Special Forces Medical Handbook
Military Medical Education and Training Textbooks

There is also medical tasks on this page
us joint services manuals

I'm sure there are tons and tons of others.

No shortage of information. Only a shortage on learning.

*

Now bear in mind field expedient medicine, and first aid, combat treatment etc.. IS not what most people would think "medicine is"

combat medics, paramedics, firs aid responders and trauma personnel are in essence there to categorize and exercise preventative measures they do not practice long term recovery medicine, or treatment for non-traumatic, non-life threatening issues normally.

Medical practice and first responder treatment will likely require a different set of skills.
*
Personally I've learned the most on medicine from studying first nations and premodern medicine, mostly herbal, however I am not a naturopath, and not and expert by any means. I know some plants and I know some fungi, not much else.

In general if SHTF goes down, then low production medicines will disappear and less effective, or treatments with more side effects that can be naturally sourced will be called on.

I think more people will rely on not highly chemistry laden medical treatments closer to pioneer medicine, or indigenous folk medicine.

People with competent levels of chemistry will be very useful, but without processing equipment won't be able to do much.

In general my completely non-authoritative opinion is that you should look at pioneer medicine and folk medicine, while cross analysing it, striking off the list known "fake treatments" and supplanting that with the most available natural remedies.

I would start by research medical applications of every plant you know by name.

The military particularly related to special forces provide some of the more current up to date medical practice reports, not all the common treatments are standardized, however most of the advanced treatments are not going to be within reach of people without vast resources. For example there are some effect advanced treatments that if not done correctly would likely kill someone who might live otherwise, but to be realistic, most people here will not be able to save a serious trauma victim and people will have a very short time to get people to advanced care.

Blood stops such as tourniquets will result in limb loss if not done effectively, so will not be used unless the person will die without it, not simply because it is a standard because care is available in time.
Most treatment would be for debilitating conditions that are not fatal but chronic and over the long term debilitating, such as worms, fungal infections, and parasites.

Knowning things like cedar might be useful.

Meanwhile any poisonings are likely to be treated with charcoal and a purgative , which is often what emergency rooms will do. both of which can be effective. However having a large feather may not be in everyone purgative kit, it is historically effective.

None the less here are lots of things that are not used anymore because they are not effective with more technical options. None the less for most of us, any treatment will not be curative treatment but rather it will be a stopgap either it will remove the attack enough to allow someone to survive, or it won't be effective and they will die.

Sadly most of the medicines that would allow effective treatment are scheduled substances that we do not have availability to legally. Thus older treatements that are less safe must be learned and used.

I don't have any good single resource on first nations medicine, I encountered it over a bunch of years in piecemeal mostly while learning about individual plants. Here some some links though

http://www.fnha.ca/documents/gwvi_tfm_presentation.pdf
http://www.nativewomenscentre.com/fi...gs_Booklet.pdf
http://www.sixnationsfarmersmarket.c..._medicines.php

Each native group has a slightly different basket but some common medicine wheel ideas that are ancient I suggest you research whatever tribe is local to your area or any areas you indend to go to. Bear in mind that you should look for what tribe was local prior to 1600, ideally prior to 1400 also, as there was a lot of migration between 1500 and 1900.

A search of major invasive species by state will give you a secondary list of plants to research for their origin of location or migration usages as plants that have invaded from places such as Asia may have traditional Asian medicine usages. Note that western, Asian, and native medicines all are different traditional schools so you should research the fundamentals of all these medicines to understand how they are suppose to be used, it isn't just chemical but also physiological.

Surprisingly ceremonies such as the Ayuhuasca do have real medical benefits, that most people don't even think of such as decalcification of the pineal gland, while other aspects may have deworming aspects. Common ailments of yesteryear are often woven into some of these ceremonies. Tobacco sweet grass ect is an antiinsecticide also. Many of these medicines now have known effects. The body itself is a curing agent, things such as fasting reset the immune system, there are lots of little aspects of tribal medicines that arn't common practices of traditional medicine but an effective regime of treatments can actually give much better odds of recovery than without what otherwise just looks like witchdoctor scammery. It really isn't it does do things to the body and mind that allow synergistic healing.











Now even giving credit for the Special Operational Forces Combat Medic training it is still essentially emergency and trauma care, not a medical practice, they are assistants and emergency care, they are not practising medicine as doctors do. Doctors are trained in extensive biomedical fields and specifically pathologies they have vastly more extensive training. The 26 week course that SpecOps gets is very limited compared to the training doctors have.



> COURSE: The goal of the Special Operations Combat Medic (SOCM) course is to train and qualify selected enlisted members to manage trauma patients, manage patients prior to medical evacuation, and provide basic medical care to team members. The course provide training in Basic Life Support/Automatic External Defibrillation (AED); pharmaceutical calculations; anatomy; physiology; pathophysiology; medical terminology; basic physical exam techniques; medical documentation; pharmacology; basic airway management; medical patient assessment; advanced airway management; patient management skills; pre-hospital trauma emergencies and care; tactical combat casualty care skills; operating room procedures; minor surgical skills; NREMT-Basic examination; obstetrics/gynecology and pediatric emergencies; cardiac pharmacology; Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS); EMT Paramedic clinical rotation and field internship consists of a 2-week hospital rotation in the emergency department, labor and delivery, surgical intensive care, pediatric emergency department, operating room, and a 2-week ambulance rotation with an assignment to an Advanced Life Support EMS unit responsible for responding to a variety of 911 emergency calls; USSOCOM EMT-Paramedic exam; care of the trauma patient in a field environment; preventive medicine; Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) casualty care, and nursing care; 30 hours of clinical rotations in clinics located on Fort Bragg, NC, conducting sick call under the supervision of a physician or physician's assistant.


They are more like EMTs/paramedics, and they have some nurse training. They do not do medicine on their own.

Medicine: the science or practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease (in technical use often taken to exclude surgery).

The closest they generally come to medicine on their own is emergency situations, and their training is often limited to their exposures while under supervision, or what is learned in private study. Even Special Operations Combat Medics do not approach physicians in terms of medical training, or the type of medicine that is engaged in, that is treatment of diseases.

Disease is not trauma.

Trauma: Traumatic injury is a term which refers to physical injuries of sudden onset and severity which require immediate medical attention. The insult may cause systemic shock called "shock trauma", and may require immediate resuscitation and interventions to save life and limb.

Again sittingelf I am kindly asking you to stop trolling me through lying about my statements.


----------



## Maine-Marine

I spent my last 7 years as a combat Medic

(12 years as a Marine and 9 in the Guard)

We had 1 Doctor - and 21+- medics

in the field we often saw soldiers, gave out basic meds, did IV's, rinsed sinuses, took blood, gave injections, treated for all kinds of stuff, removed ticks from dicks (there is a story there).... gave shots, did stitches, as needed we did helicopter evacs.. we had three field ambulances....the nbc did not work, AC in front did not work, etc 

funny story.. we had an injury caused by an artillery shell and we called for an evac... we had to drive to a small hill and once they were in sight drop a red smoke..

when we saw the huey coming in we dropped smoke and the chopper turned and we saw a camo Canadian flag on the side as it turned and flew away... wrong bird...LOL


----------



## Kauboy

SittingElf said:


> From "He who's name cannot be mentioned"...


I both hate, and love, to say I told you so.
He has more time to waste than anyone, and will not accept that he's wrong.
Good luck.


----------



## Will2

Kauboy said:


> I both hate, and love, to say I told you so.
> He has more time to waste than anyone, and will not accept that he's wrong.
> Good luck.


Why would I accept I am wrong about something that I am not wrong about. You don't have any standards apparently.

Combat Medics are not doctors. They train in trauma care, they have basic care knowledge. They are not trained in Medicine.

Your mindgames don't work on people with knowledge of propaganda and psychology.

From my perspective you are just going around looking like totally incapable people unable to discern very simple facts.

Combat Medics are not doctors.

Kauboy maybe you should accept

Combat Medics are not doctors.

Now perhaps we can discuss the topic.

The study of Medicine for SHTF.


----------



## Kauboy

Will2 said:


> Your mindgames don't work on people with knowledge of propaganda and psychology.


"Knowledge" and "comprehension" are two VERY different things.

As I said in another thread, I don't care for your opinion on anything, ever.
Don't respond to anything I've posted. It's a waste of your time, and a pain for the rest of us.
Keep your inaccurate opinions to yourself. You responded to someone who has ACTUAL experience, and yet you think you're right.
Just stop.
Don't respond to this either.


----------



## SittingElf

Kauboy said:


> I both hate, and love, to say I told you so.
> He has more time to waste than anyone, and will not accept that he's wrong.
> Good luck.


Yeah.. I LOVE that he is instructing me what my job in the Army was for seven years before going to Officer Candidate and Flight School! 
I opted to fly after having been accepted to both Flight School and Physician Assistant schools at the same time. Made the right choice for me in the final analysis.

Much of the info posted is from Wikipedia....not entirely accurate on this subject. Just ask the thousands of indigenous folks who have been examined, diagnosed, treated, operated on, and vaccinated by UNSUPERVISED SF/SOC medics over the years. Independent Corpsmen have many of the same experiences

Oh well... I'm done...and if "He" chooses not to be directly addressed and challenged, then he should just write a blog and disable comments. For me...I really don't give a shit what he "demands" as his own personal "rules" on who can or cannot address him directly.

He has the option of ignoring me....though I will still have the ability to respond to his specious, ridiculous posts.
-------------------------------------------------------
For the rest of you in SHTF, another critical book to consider for your library is the Merck Manual....latest volume. Great for differential diagnosis of many ailments and treatment/therapy...many without any lab tests required to assess.

Here' is the most commonly used acronym for medical treatment: *SOAP *
*S*ubjective. Information stated by the patient or witnesses....what are they telling you. History, pain, location, intensity, how long, etc....
*O*bjective. What you find by seeing, touching, palpating, and observing
*A*ssessment. Essentially a tentative diagnosis through experience, symptoms, study, or consultation
*P*lan. Treatment to stabilize, cure, or correct. What you will do to resolve the issue. (And remember...maggots can be your friends!!)

Medicine for SHTF is not just about trauma or emergencies. It's about total health care when there are no doctors or medical professionals available. A paper cut on your finger can kill you if not treated...and appropriate manuals, and other materials will assist you in learning how to do just that.


----------



## SittingElf

Oh what the hell.... I can't resist....

SpecOps/SF/Seal Medic synopsis of training: (Highlighting added)

*Special Operations Independent Duty Corpsman/Medic Course (Navy - SOIDC. Army/Air Force - 300-F1)*

*COURSE DATA PAGE*


*COURSE:* The goal of the *Special Operations Independent Duty Corpsman/Medic* (SOIDC) is to train and qualify selected *Non-commissioned Officers* in the advanced skills and knowledge required to perform duties as a SEAL medic SF Medic, or a Force Reconnaissance Hospital Corpsman. The SOIDC course is a fast-paced approach to long term care of active duty *and* indigenous personnel from all aspects of medicine, from the first responder to the surgeon/anesthetist in the operating room. The course includes live tissue training in extended care of the trauma patient in a field environment in addition to mass casualty, military triage system, medical mission planning, medical threat, preventive medicine, and physical examination. The student receives training in veterinary, dental, laboratory, medical diseases and case studies, nursing, initial and long-term wound care, Unconventional Warfare hospital, surgical procedures, pre-anesthesia, anesthesia, post anesthesia care, nursing care, records and reports, radiology, and central materials supply. 

Yeah... just a glorified EMT??? *NOT!*


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> Oh what the hell.... I can't resist....
> 
> SpecOps/SF/Seal Medic synopsis of training: (Highlighting added)
> 
> *Special Operations Independent Duty Corpsman/Medic Course (Navy - SOIDC. Army/Air Force - 300-F1)*
> 
> *COURSE DATA PAGE*
> 
> 
> *COURSE:* The goal of the *Special Operations Independent Duty Corpsman/Medic* (SOIDC) is to train and qualify selected *Non-commissioned Officers* in the advanced skills and knowledge required to perform duties as a SEAL medic SF Medic, or a Force Reconnaissance Hospital Corpsman. The SOIDC course is a fast-paced approach to long term care of active duty *and* indigenous personnel from all aspects of medicine, from the first responder to the surgeon/anesthetist in the operating room. The course includes live tissue training in extended care of the trauma patient in a field environment in addition to mass casualty, military triage system, medical mission planning, medical threat, preventive medicine, and physical examination. The student receives training in veterinary, dental, laboratory, medical diseases and case studies, nursing, initial and long-term wound care, Unconventional Warfare hospital, surgical procedures, pre-anesthesia, anesthesia, post anesthesia care, nursing care, records and reports, radiology, and central materials supply.
> 
> Yeah... just a glorified EMT??? *NOT!*


I highly doubt your authenticity, as the airforce doesn't even have combat medics MOS.


> All medical AFSCs in the Air Force are non-combat.


None the less you clearly don't know what the practice of medicine is and you clearly can differentiate between doctors and nurses.

I am not going to waste my time with you, so I will end it with this for both you and Kauboy, don't talk about me or to me and you shouldn't have to worry about me being forced to respond to your character attacks and lies.

Dude if you are going to con people about who you are atleast research your pathologies first. It is horrible. Sittingelf just another fake account set up to troll people.

Again even if you were the closest thing to a combat medic the airforce has 4N0X1 again training is not for medicine but for nursing and emergency care.


> Specialty Summary
> : Plans, provides, and evaluates routine patient care and treatment of beneficiaries to include flying and special operational duty personnel. Organizes the medical environment, performs and directs support activities in-patient care situations, including contingency operations and disasters. Performs duty as Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN) independent duty medical technician (IDMT), aeromedical evacuation technician (AET), or hyperbaric medical technician (HBMT), allergy and immunization technician (AIT), or neurology technician (NT) functions. Related DoD Occupational Subgroup: 300.
> 
> Duties and Responsibilities:
> 
> Provides, supervises, and manages patient care of beneficiaries to include flying and special operational duty personnel. As part of the nursing team, utilizes the nursing process to provide care for the beneficiaries. Acts as Primary Care Management (PCM) team leader and/or member.


Its a 39 day training program that you can go to after completing highschool, it ain't medschool.

Yes the Combat medics are glorified EMTs trained in combat situations. They can assist doctors and doctors assistants. They are trained in very specific field knowledge but no to the topic their knowledge of medicine is extremely limited by trade and should not be compared to someone in the actual practice of medicine. They are trained to be paramedics on the battlefield. For doing the job for 7 years as you state, which I highly doubt, you sure don't know much about your so said MOS. None the less since you are a liar and someone who is engaging in vieled attacks against me, I have no desire to communicate with you, and will leave it at do not reference to me.

Here is more info on your supposed 7 year MOS
http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_sg/publication/cfetp4n0x1x/cfetp4n0x1x.pdf

---------------------------------

From all of this what is important for the study of Medicine is EXTENSIVE study of

Anatomy
Pathology
and 
Pharmacology

EXTENSIVE, not specific but EXTENSIVE

having nursing skills or paramedic skills a doctor does not one make.


----------



## Prepared One

There are many people on this forum who's qualifications, experience, and intelligence are above reproach. I would say SittingElf is among those. "He who has no name" once again proves he is most definately not in that same category.


----------



## SittingElf

Air Force - Pararescue. They go to the Army School. 'nuff said.


----------



## A Watchman

Will2 said:


> Your mindgames don't work on people with knowledge of propaganda and psychology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And people with no job but a smart phone and the link to GOOGLE.
Click to expand...


----------



## Kauboy

SittingElf said:


> Air Force - Pararescue. They go to the Army School. 'nuff said.


He that shall not be named does not know when to quit.

Thank you for your service.


----------



## Prepared One

^^^^^

Ditto that.


----------



## warrior4

So anyway, getting back on topic. As I and others have said before, one can go out and buy all the cool fancy tools for anything you want, medicine included, but without the proper training it's very possible to do more harm than good. For example if one were to perform CPR based on "this is how I saw it done on TV," and didn't go through an actual CPR training class they're more than likely performing CPR wrong and thus actually hurting rather than helping the patient. With just about anything start small and work big. Start out with a First Aid and CPR class. From there possibly move onto First Responder or EMT training. First Responder or EMT will probably take anywhere between 3-6 months to complete, depending on the structure of the class one takes. My EMT class took 6 months, but it was only two nights a week for four hours at a time. My paramedic class was also a two day a week course but for 6 hours at a time. That's only the classroom time mind you. There was also 276 hours of Clinical work to be done and a 250 hour internship for my paramedic licence. Once you start getting to First Responder or above the price for those courses goes up too.

The point is that there is training out there. If you want just first aid all the way through going to college and med school to become a doctor, you just have to put in the time and effort. But please put in the time and effort. As good as the intentions of some laypersons are, if you don't know what you're doing it's very easy to hurt rather than heal.


----------



## paraquack

Damn warrior4, you making me feel like a real old fart. When I started my training, EMT-A was 40 hours and you don't want to know about PM. How many hours of EKG morphology did you have to do?


----------



## Montana Rancher

3rd post in

Where there are no doctors

and the companion book

where there are no dentists

Also get your supplies for veternarian supply houses, same stuff and a lot less money. My favorite is Veterinary Supplies, Medical & Podiatry Products at best prices

Also look into Fish antibiotics for getting pharmacy grade ones without a precription.

https://survivalblog.com/a_doctors_thoughts_on_antibiot/


----------



## Will2

warrior4 said:


> So anyway, getting back on topic. As I and others have said before, one can go out and buy all the cool fancy tools for anything you want, medicine included, but without the proper training it's very possible to do more harm than good. For example if one were to perform CPR based on "this is how I saw it done on TV," and didn't go through an actual CPR training class they're more than likely performing CPR wrong and thus actually hurting rather than helping the patient. With just about anything start small and work big. Start out with a First Aid and CPR class. From there possibly move onto First Responder or EMT training. First Responder or EMT will probably take anywhere between 3-6 months to complete, depending on the structure of the class one takes. My EMT class took 6 months, but it was only two nights a week for four hours at a time. My paramedic class was also a two day a week course but for 6 hours at a time. That's only the classroom time mind you. There was also 276 hours of Clinical work to be done and a 250 hour internship for my paramedic licence. Once you start getting to First Responder or above the price for those courses goes up too.
> 
> The point is that there is training out there. If you want just first aid all the way through going to college and med school to become a doctor, you just have to put in the time and effort. But please put in the time and effort. As good as the intentions of some laypersons are, if you don't know what you're doing it's very easy to hurt rather than heal.


True but don't be confused CPR doesn't have a very high success rate anyway.  (it is worth a try though)

In general if you don't have an AED and someone already had cardiac arrest chances are very low CPR will revive them, it can though.

Everyone should be CPR w/ AED trained. There really isn't much more to HCP trainin with red cross.

Things like shock treatment are going to be bigger issues during most emergencies, and things like knowing how to do basic trauma.

Anything really serious i.e. priority is likely going to die with a first responder unless the hospital is nearby, of course you can save lives with it.

There are a many books on things like Anatomy and Pathology online to learn from, even software programs that teach it. Lots of free chemistry courses also.

Tons of info out there. First aid is more like a one or two day study program that you can refresh every few months to keep fresh. Don't stop with First aid

Books like Muir's textbook of Pathology and tons of others give a good introduction to medicine.

There are tons of software books from nursing to paramedic, to full on medical practice and non courses available online for free these days.

If you are having trouble on where to start I can offer you some suggestions.


----------



## hawgrider

Will2 said:


> Things like shock treatment are going to be bigger issues during most emergencies,


 Don't you have a few videos on your own shock treatment...


----------



## Prepared One

hawgrider said:


> Don't you have a few videos on your own shock treatment...


He needs more treatments with the dial turned to full.


----------



## A Watchman

Sometimes its just to hard to tell the difference between the class clown or the class idiot. Perhaps ........... there is indeed no difference.


----------



## Real Old Man

The OP asked for assistance and since I've not seen anyone post this, If you've had the opportunity to take CPR this is perhaps one step beyond. http://www.me.ngb.army.mil/units/rti/resources/IS0871_Edition_C_ALMS.pdf No it won't qualify you to do surgery but it just might allow you to stabilize someone until you can locate a local vet of Doc.


----------



## gambit

I hate the word retard seeing its just nothing funny in any shape or form but this video for 10 hours is more entertaining then reading anything from one who be not be named


----------



## SittingElf

Back on subject....

It seems to me that most preppers discussing medical issues tend to focus on emergencies and trauma, and while that is an important need that can't be ignored, in a real long-term SHTF situation, preventative medicine and general health are of equal or greater importance.

Diseases like cholera and hepatitis are likely to be near pandemic if water sources are contaminated with decomposing bodies and other rotting sources. Food-borne pathogens may increase exponentially, and viruses will rage unstopped by vaccines that will no longer be available.

Existing medical issues like diabetes, asthma, COPD, hypothyroidism, cardiac diseases, and others may not be treatable due to the absence of appropriate drugs, and those people who are afflicted may only be left with hospice-type care until they pass. Long forgotten cures and treatments may come quickly back into vogue, and some will be effective....others simply placebos. 

Clearly, preventative medicine will be an extremely important function of daily life in SHTF. Cleaning and dressing even the most simple wounds or cuts may be life-saving. Body cleanliness, teeth care, and frequent hand washing will be paramount. Enforced quarantines may be necessary when viruses appear. Euthanasia by patient's choice may become reasonably charitable.

Crops grown in gardens may need to include currently illegal plants like poppies for opium, marijuana for THC, as well as others to be used for medical purposes. Methods of water purification will have to be perfected for each situation in order to avoid disease, poisoning, or other illnesses if a source is to be used long-term. Sterilization of medical supplies and implements will be necessary, and not always by fire or heat.

As I said in an earlier post, one of the most valuable books to have on hand for non-trauma medical reference is the Merck Manual. This is not your dime-store home medical handbook. It is the same reference used by doctors, nurse practitioners, and other medical professionals to assist in the diagnosis of ailments or injury, and the treatment options once determined. The book isn't cheap. Current version sells on Amazon for about $58, but it is essential for any community following total breakdown in order to have a hope of keeping people healthy and treated for even uncommon medical problems. (An old version from the 70's had an appropriate treatment that worked well for dysmenorrhea (Menstrual Cramps). One or two glasses of a good red wine. It was removed from later versions due to political pressure against the use of commercial alcohol for medical purposes. Typical!!)

Trauma is immediate, but general health is long-term and must be considered in any prep plan.

Cheers


----------



## Real Old Man

another good book to have on hand - although it may be a bit dated - is the https://fas.org/irp/doddir/milmed/ships.pdf (downloadable). I bought a hard copy off amazon for just a couple of bucks


----------



## warrior4

paraquack said:


> Damn warrior4, you making me feel like a real old fart. When I started my training, EMT-A was 40 hours and you don't want to know about PM. How many hours of EKG morphology did you have to do?


In my class we had a 9 week I believe it was module all about Cardiology. It included EKG morphology, reading a 12 lead, and ACLS algorithms. Good times let me tell you.


----------



## Will2

hawgrider said:


> Don't you have a few videos on your own shock treatment...


No actually I don't. You don't appear to have even a basic understanding of the difference between shock treatment and transcranial direct current stimulation. The levels and usages are incredibly different. It is like comparing a hatchet with a pin.

Transcranial direct current stimulation is not really the same as AED but it does have common principals.

The AED is basically jump starting the heart, it is charge controlled while the currents in TCDCS are low energy but have enough that they effect brain channels sort of like jump starting a bunch of dominos that are brain cells but with limited and specific effect. It is more or less facilitating enough energy to the brain so it can unlock neurons so they can be fired, or activated, on the opposite side it is used to deactivate brain channels because the brain balances pathways of positive and negative charges, but it is also tied to the chemical aspect also of dendrite materials, potassium, sodium channels and whatnot.

It actually does work, it effectively creates a positive activation, cation at one side and a negative at the other anion, since the brain does work with electrical charges basically you are creating a new pathway that is not "internally" controlled. Since the brain is fired based upon CNS responses and nutritional inputs, as well as other environmental factors, it effectively bypasses the brains internal controls and activates specific areas of the brain.

The currents /voltages are no where near as high as shock treatment. It is not as heavy as mood modification treatments however, it is more or less the same thing.

To use it effectively though you need to know safe limits on electric currents in the body (the body is an electric circuit, which has microcircuitry in the brain). You should have a knowledge of neurology and fundamentals of electricity at minimum to understand what is being done. Knowing what regions of the brain do what/where they are etc.. is quite important. Reading on studies in TDCS is also important to insure safety and effective use.

It is safe but should not be overused. In fact yes, it does have a physiological effect and could be used to modify behaviour and mood.

Shock treatement is meant to overload channels so they erase memory/behavioural channels. The brain interconnects with other areas of the brain through brain growth promoted by brain cell states that are longterm and actively stimulated. This is based upon more of a "total reset" of the brain, to specific areas. The goals of shock treatment are totally different from the goals of TDCS.

I suggest you look up transcranial direct current stimulation and shock treatment. In fact the levels used in TDCS are so low they are not shock at all. It is nothing like ECT. You seem to be fantasizing in order to paint some type of mental issue. Can you just stop with it already, it is so old.

Although Transcranial Direct current stimulation, which is not Electro-convulsive therapy, can be used for disorders, it can also be used to promote brain activity in general. Its not any different than people who use nootropic substances to improve memory functions.

It isn't about there being a deficiency, much like coffee makes people awake, it is about getting better performance and a better experience, not about correct a bad one.

My experimentation with transcranial direct current stimulation had absolutely nothing to do with any medical issues, on the contrary it was to promote even better health, which it did. The stuff is magic, it can improve eyesight and the senses, cure migraines, do all kinds of wonderful things. A lot of the brain isn't actively stimulated, you can actually make yourself more capable by stimulating a variety of areas of the brain that are underdeveloped, especially if you lead a sedentary and methodic lifestyle that will lead to fixative brain pathways that will actually make you a less capable, and less adaptive person.

BEWARE, do not make your own TCDS devices unless you do indepth research on the brain, and electricity, it is dangerous if done at the wrong levels, or the wrong areas of the brain. Knowing charge patterns and durations is important for effective capacitation.

Also do you have nothing better to do than try to put me in a spotlight. Like for real, it is totally lame behaviour.

ECT voltage is as high as 450 volts (even higher in the experimental days) and 500mA

the voltage of TDCS is about 9 volts and 1 to 2 mA although levels can go up a little but still massively smaller than ECT, levels are atleast 1/10th to 1/40th or more of ECT. The methods of application vary also.

Since the brain is sensitive and operates within the levels of TDCS damage and sideffects are very limited, where as ECT is butchery on the brain. Due to the very mild action of TDCS no pain killers are needed at all. You can feel it but it isn't shock, although a very slight charge can build up over time, it is much less powerful than touching a 9volt battery to your tongue. On the contrary ECT is like more powerful than the most powerful powerline in your house. You feel 450 volts way more than 9 volts to say the least. Just try sticking a fork in your electrical plug then touching a 9v battery to your tounge to get an idea of how the two area different. Note though that a 9v batter is about the same amperage as ECT 400-600mA so it is way more powerful than TDCS. Of course overtime TDCS can more or less use a 9v battery if the amp release extended over time through a current limiter.

Hopefully you now understand the difference between shock therapy (heavy flow of medium/high voltage) and current stimulation (low voltage, very small current flow). Your body and brain has its own operating voltages and currents, its not that electricity doesn't naturally exist in the body.

Note that the skin and skull act as resistors, what gets through to the brain isn't the 9v 1-2mA

Brain internal voltage 70 millivolts or 0.07 volts.

This is a commercial version although is more generic.
http://www.wired.com/2014/01/read-zapping-brain/

Here is the article in the event you don't click the link



> HAVE YOU BOUGHT your transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) head-set yet? You've heard of this, right? It's a device with electrodes that zap your brain through your skull, using mild electrical currents to make you smarter. The man in the picture above sports one of the first commercially available devices. Produced by Foc.us, it's available for $249, and also comes in black. This technology is far from new - Roman physician Galen was on to something similar when he slapped electric fish on his patients' heads. But tDCS is now in the process of going mainstream: there are DIY brain-zapping enthusiasts on YouTube; last year MTV editor Mary H K Choi wrote an amusing but inconclusive tDCS self-experimentation piece for Aeon; and just the other day, Oliver Burkeman included tDCS in his roundup of new brain-enhancing technologies for The Guardian.
> 
> The manufacturers claim that the tDCS headset will "overclock your brain", increase your brain's plasticity and "make your synapses fire faster". Overclocking sounds a bit dangerous, and rather than your synapses, wouldn't it be better to make your neurons fire faster? Synapses are the junctions between neurons. We usually say it's neurons that "fire" and their message is passed across one or more synapses to other neurons using chemicals. Unless the marketing people were talking specifically about electrical synapses? But sorry, I'm rambling. Must focus. "Foc.us". Need more electric current. Hang on &#8230;
> 
> Phew, better &#8230; To be fair to Foc.us, the idea of having faster synapses at the flick of switch sounds appealing, and, believe it or not, their claims for the brain-enhancing effects of tDCS are not entirely unfounded. In fact, almost each week there's a new study claiming that tDCS can boost yet another aspect of mental function. Zapping different parts of the brain has been linked with superior learning of new motor skills; better math skills; better social skills; superior learning and memory; and on the list goes. tDCS is also being investigated as a treatment for a range of psychiatric and neurological problems, but for today let's focus on mental enhancement for healthy people.
> 
> From a physiological perspective, tDCS affects brain function in two ways - by altering the baseline activity level of targeted neurons and by modifying functioning at synapses. The effect on neuron activity levels occurs while you zap; the synaptic influence is a longer-lasting after-effect. The specific changes depend on a whole range of factors, most obviously whether the current is positive ("anodal"), which increases neuronal activity, or negative ("cathodal") which suppresses it. tDCS is not to be confused with electro-convulsive therapy (for severe depression and other conditions) in which a much higher current of electricity is used to deliberately induce a brain seizure.
> 
> So the brain changes triggered by tDCS are real. And there are those findings in peer-reviewed journals showing a range of appealing cognitive benefits. What's not to like? Well, I confess I'm geeky enough to have compiled and read a number of cautionary science papers on tDCS published by experts over the last couple of years, and they certainly give pause for thought. Before you start revving up your grey matter with extra electricity, I suggest you bear in mind the following caveats and warnings:
> 
> Most studies looking at the cognitive benefits of tDCS fail to include adequate blinding and control conditions. This means the researchers and the lab rats - sorry, participants - both know who is receiving the real intervention. Big placebo effects are therefore likely because participants will have expectations of some kind of effect, and researchers could also influence outcomes with their enthusiasm or expectations.
> You don't just strap on a tDCS headset and become instantly smarter. Shucks. The experts say that the technique works by enhancing the effects of learning and practice. You still have to put effort in. "tDCS alone is of little use," Roi Cohen Kadosh, a leading researcher in this area, told me last year. 'The advantage of it is when it is combined with a cognitive training, rather than just applied alone to the brain," he said.
> But even then it doesn't work for everyone. There's huge variability in the effects of tDCS between individuals, and probably also in the same individual from one session to another. "Unfortunately &#8230; response reliability at the level of the individual has not been explored (or at least reported) in the literature to date," say Jared Horvath and colleagues. Factors to do with fatigue and hormone levels are also likely to interact with tDCS in ways we don't yet understand.
> All of which makes it hard to know the optimal and safe level of zapping to use. Bad news! "Meddling with the tDCS dose is potentially as dangerous as tampering with a drug's chemical composition," say Marom Bikson and colleagues in their recent Letter to Nature entitled: "Transcranial devices are not playthings". Other factors that will interfere with the dose include how much hair you have on your head and whether or not you sweat a lot.
> Effects of brain zapping can accumulate over time and the long-term consequences of this are unknown.
> Researchers studying tDCS are very careful to target specific brain areas. How will you know you're zapping the right part of your brain? This is particularly important for left-handers, who can have functional hubs located on a different side of the brain than usual.
> What you do after a brain zapping session can modify or completely nullify any effects of the electricity. Walking around or having specific thoughts is all it takes to potentially reverse the effects. Research on this problem is still in its infancy, so there's no way you can know how best to behave after a tDCS session to preserve any potential benefits.
> If you enhance mental function in one area, it can actually have an negative impact on another aspect of mental function. Because the neural effects of tDCS can be long-lasting, what might be advantageous in one situation could therefore leave you impaired in a different context later.
> Misuse of the technology could risk seizures or scalp burns. Also watch out for itching, fatigue and nausea. Nick Davis and colleagues say it's a mistake to think of brain zapping as non-invasive. "Any technique which directly affects brain tissue to generate such powerful acute and long-lasting effects should be treated with the same respect as any surgical technique," they write. On the plus side, a 2011 paper stated that "no serious side effects have occurred" in more than 100 studies with patients and healthy controls.
> Photographic evidence from Foc.us suggests that too much tDCS causes a desire to squinch.
> Disclaimer: Despite possible appearances to the contrary, this post was written by an under-clocked brain that's not yet been zapped by tDCS.
> 
> Go Back to Top. Skip To: Start of Article.
> BRAINBRAIN STIMULATIONSCIENCE BLOGS
> Skip Social. Skip to: Latest News.


----------



## A Watchman

Long winded advise from an uniformed member with out practicle or actual personal application .... out side of GOOGLE.


----------



## Will2

A Watchman said:


> Long winded advise from an uniformed member with out practicable or actual personal application .... out side of GOOGLE.


Then be quiet, you are not really offering much by not posting anything to the topic. Unless of course you are just adding to your delusions, fixations and fantasies relating to your fictionalized me. Please stop wasting both our time and grow up.


----------



## Will2

Real Old Man said:


> another good book to have on hand - although it may be a bit dated - is the https://fas.org/irp/doddir/milmed/ships.pdf (downloadable). I bought a hard copy off amazon for just a couple of bucks


I found an awsome resource today Mosby's Paramedic textbook it is way more extensive than your normal firstaid/trauma/cpr/posion/shock etc.. type information at over 4700 that is thousand pages it is an awsome resource.

First aid /trauma etc.. doesn't take that long to learn, this is a good expander resource.

It is available online but I'm not sure if it is actually a legal link so I am posting this google books link instead. As posting a link to a potentially pirated resource is ethically questionable.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=PJ...=onepage&q=Mosby's Paramedic textbook&f=false

You can flip through it.

It is less focused on professional training, as many paramedic texts are and has extensive situational information on a variety of responder matters. It deals with paramedic monitoring and application tech also; however, Mosby has a clinical and diagnostic textbook seperate from this also. Most of the tech isn't very relevant to a lay prepper though, but the situational stuff is very useful.



> CONTENT AND ORGANIZATION
> The fourth edition of Mosby's Paramedic Textbook has been extensively reviewed by physicians, nurses, paramedics, educators, and national and international experts in the field of emergency care people who know and value the important role of the paramedic in health care delivery. The text was developed from the 2008 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's National EMS Education Standards Instructional Guidelines for Paramedics. Every effort was made to meet all educational components as defined in that document. The fourth edition has also been enhanced to address recent advances and important issues in emergency medical services (EMS), including new equipment and procedures; critical care transport (CCT); and special considerations for dealing with bioterrorism and weapons of mass destruction (WMD).
> 
> Part One explains the paramedic's role and the unique
> 
> aspects of the profession, such as an overview of EMS systems and the importance of personal well-being. It also introduces the paramedic student to medical/legal issues, ethics, documentation, and EMS communications. New chapters included in this section include Injury Prevention and Public Health (Chapter 3) and Research Principles and Evidence-Based Practice (Chapter 8). Personal safety is emphasized in Part One and throughout the text.
> *
> Part Two provides a review of human systems and is an easily located reference for anatomical structures and their functions. This section begins with a new chapter to explain Medical Terminology (Chapter 9). The general principles of pathophysiology lay the foundation for the textbook and are presented here as well. Chapters that map lifespan development and special considerations for specific age groups are included in this section.
> 
> Part Three introduces the paramedic student to pharmacology, methods of venous access, and medication administration. The pharmacology chapter has been enhanced to include new emergency drugs. It also has an expanded appendix on herbal products, their common uses, indications, and possible interactions with medications.
> 
> Part Four is devoted to airway management and ventilation. The physiology of the respiratory system is presented in depth, and basic and advanced methods of managing a patient's airway with new equipment and techniques are illustrated in this chapter.
> 
> Part Five focuses on patient assessment and the importance of caring for both the physical and emotional needs of the patient. New chapters devoted to Scene Size-Up (Chapter 16), Primary Assessment (Chapter 19), and Secondary Assessment (Chapter 20) are included in this edition. Separate chapters address therapeutic communications, history taking, and clinical decision making.
> 
> Part Six covers cardiology in detail. Electrophysiology of the heart and electrocardiogram (ECG) interpretation is presented first and is followed by cardiovascular emergencies such as cardiac rhythm disturbances, myocardial infarction, and stroke. Techniques in managing cardiac emergencies, including basic and advanced cardiac life support, follow the 2010 guidelines established by the American Red Cross (ARC) and the American Heart Association (AHA).
> 
> Part Seven addresses the many types of medical conditions that can lead to an emergency response. New chapters to this edition are Diseases of the Eyes, Ears, Nose, and Throat (Chapter 23), Immunology (Chapter 27), and Nontraumatic Musculoskeletal Disorders (Chapter 33). Separate chapters are included for disorders of specific body systems. Discussed in depth here are respiratory, neurology, endocrinology, gastrointestinal, genitourinary, gynecology, and hematology disorders. In addition, infectious and communicable diseases, toxicology, and behavioral and psychiatric disorders are covered in detail.
> 
> Part Eight is a complete discussion of the Pathophysiology and Management of Shock, a complicated disease process that can affect both medical and trauma patients.
> 
> Part Nine is devoted to a thorough presentation of trauma. It begins with a discussion of trauma systems and mechanism of injury. This is followed by separate chapters on bleeding and soft tissue trauma; burns; head, face, and neck trauma; and injury to the spine, chest, abdomen, and musculoskeletal system. A separate chapter on Environmental Conditions (Chapter 45) describes illness and injury that can result from exposure to elements in the environment.
> 
> Part Ten describes special considerations for select patient groups such as pregnant women, neonates, pediatrics, and geriatrics. It also addresses the needs of patients who have been victims of abuse and neglect, those with special challenges, and home care patients who may require acute interventions.
> *
> 
> _*
> Part Eleven deals with the various aspects of advanced EMS systems, such as ambulance operations, medical incident command, rescue operations, crime scene awareness, and hazardous materials incidents. A separate chapter that provides an overview of bioterrorism and weapons of mass destruction is included here, reflecting the hazards and responsibilities important to today's paramedic. The last chapter in this section (Chapter 59) "puts it all together" for the student. It serves as a review of the important concepts in providing emergency care that have been presented throughout the text. Finally, a new appendix has been included to provide an overview of advanced practice procedures for the critical care paramedic.
> *_
> Each chapter of Mosby's Paramedic Textbook begins with an introduction and a list of objectives that provide an overview of the material to be presented. This allows the student to review the content and progression of each chapter in an easy-to-follow format. Key terms are included to highlight terminology and concepts critical to providing emergency care, and boldfaced items identify terms that are included in the glossary. Each chapter concludes with current references that can be used as a resource for supplemental reading and a bulleted summary that reviews the most important material presented in the chapter. The textbook also is accompanied by a student workbook to help measure understanding of the core material. Included in the workbook are questions, activities, and case studies designed to enhance understanding, promote reflection on learning, and integrate key concepts and knowledge.
> 
> The fourth edition of Mosby's Paramedic Textbook also includes the following features that help make this textbook a leader in EMS education:
> 
> image Emergency Drug Index. The Emergency Drug Index (EDI) details specific information on more than 70 emergency drugs. It provides a quick source of reference for a drug's description, onset and duration, indications, contraindications, adverse reactions, drug interactions, packaging, dosage and administration for adult and pediatric patients, and special considerations. Drugs in the textbook that are found in the EDI are denoted with a bold italic font as a reminder to the reader of their importance and easy location of reference.
> 
> image Critical Thinking Questions. Critical thinking questions are found in each chapter to aid in understanding concepts and how information presented in the text can impact day-to-day activities and "real life" patient care.
> 
> image Advanced ECG Rhythm Interpretation. All cardiac rhythms and dysrhythmias are presented in lead I, II, III, and MCL1 to enhance assessment of the cardiac patient. In addition, the text includes advanced electrophysiology, 12-lead monitoring, fibrinolytic therapy, and current treatment modalities as recommended by the American Heart Association.
> 
> image Full-Color Illustrations. More than 1500 tables, charts, line drawings, and photographs are included in the text to illustrate anatomy, physiology, and patient management guidelines. State-of-the-art equipment and step-by-step demonstrations of practical skills also are presented in full color to demonstrate emergency care procedures.
> 
> image "Did You Know?" The new "Did You Know?" boxes are included throughout the text to expand on interesting and relevant information, such as unusual facts and figures, "nice-to-know" data, and "need-to-know" material, such as the rights of terminally ill patients and the possible effects of biological terrorism.
> 
> image Box Notes. Box notes are presented in each chapter to highlight vital information and words of warning.
> 
> image "Look Again." The new "Look Again" feature prevents text information from being repeated in numerous chapters. This feature directs the student to the chapters and page numbers where the material was first presented for easy reference and review.
> 
> image "Show Me the Evidence." Each new "Show Me the Evidence" feature summarizes a research study related to the chapter content. This feature familiarizes the paramedic with the research process, its language, and its findings. "Show me the Evidence" will encourage students to look for information throughout their careers to promote evidence-based practice.
> 
> image Expanded Glossary. The glossary has been expanded to include definitions on hundreds of medical terms and key terms presented in the textbook chapters.
> 
> image Index. The thorough and detailed index makes it easy to find information that was presented in the text.
> 
> I hope reading this preface reinforces the decision you made to choose this textbook. Whether you're a paramedic student, practicing paramedic, nurse, physician, administrator, or educator, I think you will find this textbook to be a valuable EMS resource.


----------



## A Watchman

I suggest some posters start a thread titled " Dummy's for Medicine".


----------



## Will2

I suggest you do.


----------



## oldditchdoctor

Will2 said:


> I highly doubt your authenticity, as the airforce doesn't even have combat medics MOS.
> 
> None the less you clearly don't know what the practice of medicine is and you clearly can differentiate between doctors and nurses.
> 
> I am not going to waste my time with you, so I will end it with this for both you and Kauboy, don't talk about me or to me and you shouldn't have to worry about me being forced to respond to your character attacks and lies.
> 
> Dude if you are going to con people about who you are atleast research your pathologies first. It is horrible. Sittingelf just another fake account set up to troll people.
> 
> Again even if you were the closest thing to a combat medic the airforce has 4N0X1 again training is not for medicine but for nursing and emergency care.
> 
> Its a 39 day training program that you can go to after completing highschool, it ain't medschool.
> 
> Yes the Combat medics are glorified EMTs trained in combat situations. They can assist doctors and doctors assistants. They are trained in very specific field knowledge but no to the topic their knowledge of medicine is extremely limited by trade and should not be compared to someone in the actual practice of medicine. They are trained to be paramedics on the battlefield. For doing the job for 7 years as you state, which I highly doubt, you sure don't know much about your so said MOS. None the less since you are a liar and someone who is engaging in vieled attacks against me, I have no desire to communicate with you, and will leave it at do not reference to me.
> 
> Here is more info on your supposed 7 year MOS
> http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_sg/publication/cfetp4n0x1x/cfetp4n0x1x.pdf
> 
> ---------------------------------
> 
> From all of this what is important for the study of Medicine is EXTENSIVE study of
> 
> Anatomy
> Pathology
> and
> Pharmacology
> 
> EXTENSIVE, not specific but EXTENSIVE
> 
> having nursing skills or paramedic skills a doctor does not one make.


Lemme tell you something you babbling idiot. I have been a National Registry Paramedic for many years. I have taken patients in that I found with a BP of 60 Systolic(nonperfusing), given them Dopamine(a pressor), gotten them mentating and functioning properly, at 85 mph going down a highway. 
Upon arriving at the ER, the Md "accidentally" forgot to turn the dopamine back on after transferring the patient, and the patient died. 
It is called Paramedicine, we are held to the same standards in the foeld that an Md is held to in an ER. I have 1/4 the space, 1/8 the people, and 1/2 the drugs. 
Who Would you rather have with you at 2am, in a ditch, in the rain, upside down in a car? An Md that doesn't know his ass from a hat, or one hell of a Medic? I will tell you now, most medics that I know study their butts off, take class after class, year after year, to learn to save idiots like you from their own stupidity. 
You must have voted Dem the last two times! Why? Because you obviously know nothing, just like the folks up yonder. 
Take a ride on a 24/48 truck and see what it really is like. I will bet that you have seen nothing like it. As for the military Medics(whichever beach they may be), I have at least four buddies that have survived Iraq or Afghanistan, because of a Corpsman or Medic. One was shot once in the back, 3 in the front, took two IED's and lost one leg above the knee and the other was hanging on by a pedicle. He kept the on hanging on, because the Medic that was in his unit kept it perfusing for 36 hours before evac, but he's just a glorified EMT. 
Can you do any of that while under fire, or in a ditch full of water, crap and other unwanted substances? If so could you do it for 24/36 hours without sleep or hauling it down the road at 85mph or more? How about for 20-30 years, seeing all that a GLORIFIED EMT SEES, and not becoming pissy when some jerk that hasn't done it calls BS on someone that has? 
As for me, 26+ years of saving lives in Fire/EMS/LEO, makes one a bit touchy when someone calls a brother or sister BS. 
Until you can step into our shoes, suck it up buttercup! Come take a ride on a busy truck, or in a war zone. Then see how glorified it really is.

Rant over, sorry for the language moderators but I had to lay it out, ignorance is curable, stupid isn't.


----------



## oldditchdoctor

paraquack said:


> Damn warrior4, you making me feel like a real old fart. When I started my training, EMT-A was 40 hours and you don't want to know about PM. How many hours of EKG morphology did you have to do?


We were a non registry state when I started in the 90's, now we are registry Paramedic is 18 months, Plus A&P, plus Advanced and/or Basic, plus EMR. I think we 1000 plus hours of class plus almost as many clinical rotations. 
Dang, I just dates myself, I'm an old fart as well, and grumpy at that!


----------



## A Watchman

oldditchdoctor said:


> We were a non registry state when I started in the 90's, now we are registry Paramedic is 18 months, Plus A&P, plus Advanced and/or Basic, plus EMR. I think we 1000 plus hours of class plus almost as many clinical rotations.
> Dang, I just dates myself, I'm an old fart as well, and grumpy at that!


Grumpy can be a good thing!


----------



## oldditchdoctor

A Watchman said:


> Grumpy can be a good thing!


See above. Was that good? Lol


----------



## SittingElf

Will2 said:


> N
> *My experimentation with transcranial direct current stimulation* had absolutely nothing to do with any medical issues, on the contrary it was to promote even better health, which it did. The stuff is magic, it can improve eyesight and the senses, cure migraines, do all kinds of wonderful things. A lot of the brain isn't actively stimulated, you can actually make yourself more capable by stimulating a variety of areas of the brain that are underdeveloped, especially if you lead a sedentary and methodic lifestyle that will lead to fixative brain pathways that will actually make you a less capable, and less adaptive person.


Well.. THAT explains a LOT! :Sarcastic::rofl3:


----------



## oldditchdoctor

SittingElf said:


> Well.. THAT explains a LOT! :Sarcastic::rofl3:


ROFL


----------



## BuckB

oldditchdoctor said:


> See above. Was that good? Lol


That was not good. That was freakin' OUTSTANDING!!!! Nicely done Doc!


----------



## Will2

BuckB said:


> That was not good. That was freakin' OUTSTANDING!!!! Nicely done Doc!


Can you people not follow a topic at all.

You people are so out of touch. You seem to think contacting the equivalent of 9v battery lighting up a LED is some type of grounds to think something about someone.

You people latch onto anything, it is truely pathetic.

Do you have to make everything something bizarre that you haven't encountered before?
Seriously you trolls need to get a life.

You are looking for any excuse for conflict and strife. 
You trolls are truely the mentally issued ones here. Normal people don't find enjoyment in annoying other people, that is antisocial behaviour, and is a behavioural disorder. Seriously if you are grown ups I am sorry you live the life you do, I can only pray god makes less retards in the future.


----------



## BuckB

Will2 said:


> Can you people not follow a topic at all.
> 
> You people are so out of touch. You seem to think contacting the equivalent of 9v battery lighting up a LED is some type of grounds to think something about someone.
> 
> You people latch onto anything, it is truely pathetic.
> 
> Do you have to make everything something bizarre that you haven't encountered before?
> Seriously you trolls need to get a life.
> 
> You are looking for any excuse for conflict and strife.
> You trolls are truely the mentally issued ones here. Normal people don't find enjoyment in annoying other people, that is antisocial behaviour, and is a behavioural disorder. Seriously if you are grown ups I am sorry you live the life you do, I can only pray god makes less retards in the future.


What the hell are you talking about?

And by the way, normal people do not write run-on sentences - one thought, one sentence.


----------



## oldditchdoctor

Will2 said:


> Can you people not follow a topic at all.
> 
> You people are so out of touch. You seem to think contacting the equivalent of 9v battery lighting up a LED is some type of grounds to think something about someone.
> 
> You people latch onto anything, it is truely pathetic.
> 
> Do you have to make everything something bizarre that you haven't encountered before?
> Seriously you trolls need to get a life.
> 
> You are looking for any excuse for conflict and strife.
> You trolls are truely the mentally issued ones here. Normal people don't find enjoyment in annoying other people, that is antisocial behaviour, and is a behavioural disorder. Seriously if you are grown ups I am sorry you live the life you do, I can only pray god makes less retards in the future.


You sir, are a future Darwin Award Recipient. That is all.


----------



## Will2

BuckB said:


> What the hell are you talking about?
> 
> And by the way, normal people do not write run-on sentences - one thought, one sentence.


I am talking about the fact y'all can't contribute to a topic and can't help but fixate on me as if an exposure to the equivalent to a 9v battery is some gateway to being somehow notable.
OMG WILL was turned into xyz by








Oh he is so different. He touched a battery to his head. Oh my.

Like give me a break, there are far more interesting things than to be encased in those sorts of delusions. Do you realize how sick it appears.

I'm not here for formality. And yes 'normal people' do write run-on senences. Its comprehensible because we naturally parse and arrange words and speech anyway. It is just a classic grammar nag. Hopefully you are some foreign smuck using a translator because the less you communicate with me the better. I'll save my editing for my course work, this is a non-formal environment, and I could care less about petty errors. If you are that anal you have issues.
Normal people don't nag other people for kicks, that is illness.

Feel open to PM me if you find grammar mistakes in my writing, I'll be sure my editor has a look at it, in the meantime pull the pickle out.



> A run-on sentence is a common error caused by merging two sentences (i.e., independent clauses) without suitable punctuation. When a comma is used incorrectly between the two sentences, the error is known as a comma fault or a comma splice.
> What Is a Run-on Sentence? (grammar lesson)
> grammar-monster.com/glossary/run-on_sentence.htm


----------



## BuckB

Will2 said:


> I am talking about the fact y'all can't contribute to a topic and can't help but fixate on me as if an exposure to the equivalent to a 9v battery is some gateway to being somehow notable.
> OMG WILL was turned into xyz by
> View attachment 15385
> 
> 
> Oh he is so different. He touched a battery to his head. Oh my.
> 
> Like give me a break, there are far more interesting things than to be encased in those sorts of delusions. Do you realize how sick it appears.
> 
> I'm not here for formality. And yes 'normal people' do write run-on senences. Its comprehensible because we naturally parse and arrange words and speech anyway. It is just a classic grammar nag. Hopefully you are some foreign smuck using a translator because the less you communicate with me the better. I'll save my editing for my course work, this is a non-formal environment, and I could care less about petty errors. If you are that anal you have issues.
> Normal people don't nag other people for kicks, that is illness.
> 
> Feel open to PM me if you find grammar mistakes in my writing, I'll be sure my editor has a look at it, in the meantime pull the pickle out.


Sorry buckshot. I am one guy, so the (mis-spelled) plural "ya'll" is inaccurate. But back to your original point... I did not fixate on you in my response to Doc. I fixated on Doc. I thought his response was accurate and witty. That is unlike most of your posts which usually make me want to start drilling holes in my forehead with a cordless drill. Doc's post, on the other hand, made me happy and made me crack a smile.

But the lightbulb trick is damn good. Thank you for that. My 5 year old grandson showed me that trick a week ago and I thought he was the only one in the whole world that knew how to light a lightbulb. It gives me comfort that you also know how to do it too.

If you ever decide to amp up your electrical experiments on your brain, give me a shout. I am plenty happy to help out.

Your friend

Buck Bored


----------



## oldditchdoctor

I am more than willing to answer questions, as I am instructor in multiple disciplines. If you ask, and are sincere, I will help you in any way that you need. 
However, if you insult my intelligence(or that of others that are knowledgable in the emergency operations theatre) I tend to consider you to be unwilling to listen and write you off as a loss. 
I have long been the make or break medic. If someone was having trouble, they were placed on my shift. I have argued toe to toe with ER Docs more than once, and won. I know my craft and practice it well. I, and many other Medics, have even had Md's ask me for a consult on a 12
Lead EKG, a tough patient or something that's new to them. Do I look down at them? No. 
As a matter of fact, it earns them respect. Why? Because they are willing to take time to learn from someone that may know more about something than they do. It's quite humbling ,for a Doc that's been practicing for 20+'years, to ask a Paramedic for his/her opinion on something that's crucial to patient care. 
You see, that's why it is called practicing medicine, no Md, RN or Medic of any sort is 100% perfect. We simply try to learn something each shift and it may be something as simple as a better way to check pupils, or as hard as a new drug calculation for a new medicine. 
On the average ambulance or Medic bag, there are on average 50 plus drugs. You must be proficient in their uses, dosages, routes, rates and timing. Each treatment modality that you initiate causes something else in the body to react in some way. IE: Acid base balance, Crebs Cycle, The Fick Principle, The Particles of Substance Theory....adnauseaum. 
My suggestion is, before you open a door to Pandora's Box, you have a way to stuff the fluff back in. 
If you slam one Medic or RN, you get back what you give. 
We are a family. Whether we know one another or not. We stand at the ready, when other refuse. We walk into homes on people's worst days and attempt to make thing better, we see things with our eyes that we wish our brains could unsee, yet we persevere. We attend hours of schooling, extensive training and leave our families at home for days at a time. 
Then, thankless people who underestimate our abilities open their mouths and show ignorance as to our skill sets. 
If I make a mistake at work, people die. If an RN makes a mistake at work, people die. If an MD makes a mistake at work, people die. 
We are all held to a high standard. We all feel guilt and regret for the loss of a patient. We all look back to find a way to do the job better, and consult with one another regularly. While an Md may have more college, we are held to the same standard. 
The same goes for a police officer, he's held to the same standard as a lawyer, yet makes less money and has less formal education. 
What one learns in school and what one learns on the street are quite different. Thusly, while we attend less college, we learn as much on the street. 
While I do not proclaim perfection, I do strive for it. 

So, if you ask a legitimate question, I will gladly contribute to the topic at hand. If you are a jerk and start slamming folks for their chosen profession because Dr. Google tells a different take, you are treated accordingly. 
Lastly, have a Paramedic take a 12 Lead EKG on a critical patient. Take the EKG to more than 3 Cardiologists and have them read it. Each will have a different interpretation, to some degree. Which is Md is correct? Would you lump their inability to interpret the EKG Equally as incompetence? 
So, ask questions, compare answers and combine the thought processes. 
If you seem to disagree, go to Medic School, get your RN, or look through the books that we had to know to try to perfect our craft. Whichever you choose, accept the input graciously and do not demean someone for giving you an answer. If you disagree, put a mark through it/by it and research the topic. You might be surprised.


----------



## Kauboy

Will2 said:


> Can you people not follow a topic at all.
> 
> You people are so out of touch. You seem to think contacting the equivalent of 9v battery lighting up a LED is some type of grounds to think something about someone.
> 
> You people latch onto anything, it is truely pathetic.
> 
> Do you have to make everything something bizarre that you haven't encountered before?
> Seriously you trolls need to get a life.
> 
> You are looking for any excuse for conflict and strife.
> You trolls are truely the mentally issued ones here. Normal people don't find enjoyment in annoying other people, that is antisocial behaviour, and is a behavioural disorder. Seriously if you are grown ups I am sorry you live the life you do, I can only pray god makes less retards in the future.


You consider this group to be retarded, to have mental issues, to be trolls suffering from behavioral disorders, and in need of "a life".
If you are so displeased with the treatment you're perceiving, what could possibly be keeping you here?
Are you a glutton for punishment? Masochistic? Do you suffer from battered wife syndrome?
Seriously, what is it? It is a struggle to find anyone who agrees with anything you post, and arguments seem to follow you like a lost puppy.

I can't imagine why someone would subject themselves to constant (deserved) ridicule, by choice.
It boggles the mind.


----------



## Plumbum

oldditchdoctor said:


> You sir, are a future Darwin Award Recipient. That is all.


LoL, best comment EVER!


----------



## Real Old Man

Will2 said:


> Do you have to make everything something bizarre that you haven't encountered before?
> Seriously you trolls need to get a life.
> 
> You are looking for any excuse for conflict and strife.
> You trolls are truely the mentally issued ones here. Normal people don't find enjoyment in annoying other people, that is antisocial behaviour, and is a behavioural disorder. Seriously if you are grown ups I am sorry you live the life you do, I can only pray god makes less retards in the future.


First calling folks names is a sign of someone with nothing to contribute. And for the record retard is a very hateful term similar to the N - word for folks that have learning disabilities. As for which individual finds enjoyment in annoying other people - most folks here truely understand that the person you are describing is your self. As for who is suffering from a social disorder, wasn't it you that said you'd hooked your self up to a bunch of electrodes? Seems that the primary use is to treat depression.

Lastly having dealt with a number of individuals that have difficulty in interacting with the real world, I would strongly suggest that you unhook the battery and go back to taking your prescribed meds.


----------



## Prepared One

oldditchdoctor said:


> I will tell you now, most medics that I know study their butts off, take class after class, year after year, to learn to save idiots like you from their own stupidity.


I see Willie is making new friends.

May I suggest you not save this particular idiot.


----------



## oldditchdoctor

Prepared One said:


> I see Willie is making new friends.
> 
> May I suggest you not save this particular idiot.


Darwinism.


----------



## Will2

Kauboy said:


> You consider this group to be retarded, to have mental issues, to be trolls suffering from behavioral disorders, and in need of "a life".
> If you are so displeased with the treatment you're perceiving, what could possibly be keeping you here?
> Are you a glutton for punishment? Masochistic? Do you suffer from battered wife syndrome?
> Seriously, what is it? It is a struggle to find anyone who agrees with anything you post, and arguments seem to follow you like a lost puppy.


Not at all, my comments don't apply to everyone on the board, just the trolls and you know who you are.



> I can't imagine why someone would subject themselves to constant (deserved) ridicule, by choice.
> It boggles the mind.


I could care less about your opinion. You and a few others are quite annoying and have no decency and cannot accept a very specific request not to communicate with me. That isn't a blanket order I ask specific individuals who have problems not to communicate with me, because they are trolls. I don't want to discuss this with you, I could care less what you think about me, I am not here to discus me, I am here to talk about topics, not about myself.


----------



## Will2

Real Old Man said:


> As for who is suffering from a social disorder, wasn't it you that said you'd hooked your self up to a bunch of electrodes?


Nope. Obviously you are illiterate or just making up stories. Why don't you quote the post instead of making up your own story for the truely troubled and pathetic attempt to lets quote myself here "You are looking for any excuse for conflict and strife. 
You trolls are truely the mentally issued ones here. Normal people don't find enjoyment in annoying other people, that is antisocial behaviour, and is a behavioural disorder. Seriously if you are grown ups I am sorry you live the life you do, I can only pray god makes less retards in the future."


> Lastly having dealt with a number of individuals that have difficulty in interacting with the real world, I would strongly suggest that you unhook the battery and go back to taking your prescribed meds.


As someone without a single medical issue with a prescription related again that is a direct attack. I suggest you get on meds because your trolling is totally unacceptable social behaviour. You and your motley crew of trolls need to get a life and stop harassing me. If you can't take that hint, you are clearly illiterate and there is no point of me wasting my time requesting you not troll me in search of a response.

Are you not capable of sticking to a topic instead of smearing and launching personal attacks against someone? Your behaviour is both criminal and rude. Do you have nothing better to do than slander someone you jerk.

I have no desire for further communications with you. You are a nag and an annoyance. You are only here to bug me, so I can only request you stop. I don't care about your opinion.

If I thought you were a respectable person whose opinion was worth taking into consideration or that somehow is someone to respect I might consider your opinion, since that isn't the case, stop bugging me.


----------



## Kauboy

You have no idea when to give up...


----------



## Will2

Kauboy said:


> You have no idea when to give up...


You have no idea when to stop communicating with me.

Stop trolling me.


----------



## Kauboy

Will2 said:


> You have no idea when to stop communicating with me.
> Stop trolling me.


I rest my case.
Kindly ignore me if you don't wish to read my "communications".
I would appreciated it, greatly.


----------



## Will2

Kauboy said:


> I rest my case.
> Kindly ignore me if you don't wish to read my "communications".
> I would appreciated it, greatly.


No you ignore me. I don't have to watch you insult and attack my character. What you say about me is my business.

I am completely entitled to request you stop making false statements about me to the public.


----------



## Real Old Man

Will2 said:


> Nope. Obviously you are illiterate or just making up stories. Why don't you quote the post instead of making up your own story for the truely troubled and pathetic attempt to lets quote myself here "You are looking for any excuse for conflict and strife.
> You trolls are truely the mentally issued ones here. Normal people don't find enjoyment in annoying other people, that is antisocial behaviour, and is a behavioural disorder. Seriously if you are grown ups I am sorry you live the life you do, I can only pray god makes less retards in the future."
> 
> As someone without a single medical issue with a prescription related again that is a direct attack. I suggest you get on meds because your trolling is totally unacceptable social behaviour. You and your motley crew of trolls need to get a life and stop harassing me. If you can't take that hint, you are clearly illiterate and there is no point of me wasting my time requesting you not troll me in search of a response.
> 
> Are you not capable of sticking to a topic instead of smearing and launching personal attacks against someone? Your behaviour is both criminal and rude. Do you have nothing better to do than slander someone you jerk.
> 
> I have no desire for further communications with you. You are a nag and an annoyance. You are only here to bug me, so I can only request you stop. I don't care about your opinion.
> 
> If I thought you were a respectable person whose opinion was worth taking into consideration or that somehow is someone to respect I might consider your opinion, since that isn't the case, stop bugging me.


willie willie willie. I'm not the one that made a post regarding the benefits of electrical stimulation of the skull vs shock treatments. And I'm not the one that is calling everyone that pesters you retards. And i'm not the one that doesn't have a life - especially if the length of your posts is any indication.

As far as my actions being criminal, perhaps you ought to look up and find the appropriate statute and see if anyone will issue a warrant. Not going to happen. And how have you been slandered? Come on little willie. come on.

Have a nice day butt hole


----------



## Kauboy

Will2 said:


> No you ignore me. I don't have to watch you insult and attack my character. What you say about me is my business.
> 
> I am completely entitled to request you stop making false statements about me to the public.


You can request anything you like. I'm free to call a duck a duck. Also, you should know by now, what I say about you is IRRELEVANT. We are strangers on a web forum, and you act like I'm defaming you in the local newspaper. Get over yourself.


----------



## Real Old Man

Kauboy said:


> You can request anything you like. I'm free to call a duck a duck. Also, you should know by now, what I say about you is IRRELEVANT. We are strangers on a web forum, and you act like I'm defaming you in the local newspaper. Get over yourself.


You are also being irreverent. But then so am I.


----------



## hawgrider

Yes its freak show. The main attraction is stupid with dread locks.
Come inside and enjoy the show 25 cents.


----------



## Real Old Man

*My experimentation with transcranial direct current stimulation had absolutely nothing to do with any medical issues, on the contrary it was to promote even better health, which it did. The stuff is magic, it can improve eyesight and the senses, cure migraines, do all kinds of wonderful things. A lot of the brain isn't actively stimulated, you can actually make yourself more capable by stimulating a variety of areas of the brain that are underdeveloped, especially if you lead a sedentary and methodic lifestyle that will lead to fixative brain pathways that will actually make you a less capable, and less adaptive person
*
posted by none other than wee willie2


----------



## Kauboy

Real Old Man said:


> You are also being irreverent. But then so am I.


ir·rev·er·ent
əˈrev(ə)rənt/
adjective
showing a lack of respect for people or things that are generally taken seriously.

No, I don't think we are. :mrgreen:


----------



## Real Old Man

Hold on he takes himself very seriously!


----------



## Will2

Real Old Man said:


> *My experimentation with transcranial direct current stimulation had absolutely nothing to do with any medical issues, on the contrary it was to promote even better health, which it did. The stuff is magic, it can improve eyesight and the senses, cure migraines, do all kinds of wonderful things. A lot of the brain isn't actively stimulated, you can actually make yourself more capable by stimulating a variety of areas of the brain that are underdeveloped, especially if you lead a sedentary and methodic lifestyle that will lead to fixative brain pathways that will actually make you a less capable, and less adaptive person
> *
> posted by none other than wee willie2


OK, and...

is there a reason you are quoting a post I made.

Please stop your obsessive stalker behaviour it is disturbing.

You are clearly trying to manipulate text I made to mean something completely else. You either are trying to take advantage of peoples lack of knowledge or you yourself don't know what the heck you are referring to.

At no time have I ever used TDCS for therapy, or engaged in a course of repeated anti-depressing use of TDCS on myself. As I don't have depression I would never engage in a TDCS therapy for depression.

You are basically implying that because I have an apple I was using it as an archery target. Clearly having an apple and using it for target practice are two entirely different things. You don't understand the technology or the different ways it can be used so I suggest you just not post. As the whole purpose of these posts are defamatory in nature and I am again requesting you stop with the flaming and harassment.

You are just throwing mud again and again, it is lame, and in bad taste.

At no point have I ever used TDCS as a therapeutic medical device, especially not for any treatment for any mental disorder. Since I do not have any mental disorders an actual course of treatment could be damaging instead of restorative.

Again I suggest you not write about things you don't understand. Again I request you stop with the attacks and misleading statements regarding myself and my activities.


----------



## Real Old Man

my my my. touchy aren't we. 

What attack? Did I call you a retard? No. did I say you were illiterate? No? Did we say you were suffering from a mental disorder? No. My comment was to unplug and take your meds. Did we accuse you of antisocial behavior? No. Did we say that we felt sorry for the life you lead or question if you were an adult? No. Did we tell you to grow up? No. 

These were all your attacks on other individuals that have posted on this one thread. 

Maybe if you weren’t so confrontational you might just get along with folks a whole lot easier..

But what ever floats your boat


----------



## Prepared One

Old Willie don't know when to quit. This would be funny if it weren't so pathetic......nawwww, it's funny as hell.


----------



## Will2

Real Old Man said:


> my my my. touchy aren't we.
> 
> What attack? My comment was to unplug and take your meds.


You are just flaming trying to spark a reaction to cause a ban. I've asked your kind repeatedly to bugger off and stop spreading lies, and false light defamatory statements. Stop referring to me or about me. Can you not understand that request?

Why don't you try contributing to the topic instead of turning this thread into a circus. My gosh are you oblivious to how destructive of normal discussion you are to the actual topic by turning around and using it as a medium to slander me online?

Stop commenting to or about me. Thankyou. If you don't like my comments put me on ignore. I am not the one who is starting commentary about you, I am replying to personal attacks directed to me. If you are not playing stupid that is obvious.

Get it through your head I don't have any medical issues requiring medication so stop referring for me to have a need to take meds, it is rude and insulting. Stop the personal attacks, and as stated stop communicating to or about me. If I kept on approaching you on the street after you asked me to stop talking to you and I continued, that is clear harassment, especially if I followed you everywhere you went and commented to you and about you. It is obsessive and rude both online and offline. The internet is not a fantasy world where the real world rules no longer exist. Get it through your head your comments are not welcome and I have asked you to stop making offensive and false statements as well as alluding to things I have stated I have not. Just pretend I don't exist and go on about your life, you are an annoying troll. Stop bugging me, this thread isn't about me so stop talking about your fantasies ascribed to me. It is uncalled for, fantasize in private not a place I have to see your delusions. People fictionalizing my life is not welcome, don't. Having deluded people stalk you online isn't a good activity, so as stated stop it is criminal and totally unwelcome behaviour. Single instances wouldn't be an issue but this is constant abuse, it is criminal, stop.


----------



## Will2

Prepared One said:


> Old Willie don't know when to quit. This would be funny if it weren't so pathetic......nawwww, it's funny as hell.


Its not funny it is sick. Get help. Annoying people is not something healthy people find amusing. You are sick.

http://www.psychnet-uk.com/x_new_si...c_criteria/criteria_personality_sadistic.html


----------



## Kauboy

It isn't criminal, and he isn't stalking you. This is a single website on the internet that you continue to visit. Stalking would require that he follows you elsewhere. There is no crime here. For someone who wishes to put and end to fantasies, you seem to hold fast to your own.


----------



## Real Old Man

Will2 said:


> You are just flaming trying to spark a reaction to cause a ban. I've asked your kind repeatedly to bugger off and stop spreading lies, and false light defamatory statements. Stop referring to me or about me. Can you not understand that request?
> 
> Why don't you try contributing to the topic instead of turning this thread into a circus. My gosh are you oblivious to how destructive of normal discussion you are to the actual topic by turning around and using it as a medium to slander me online?
> 
> Stop commenting to or about me. Thankyou. If you don't like my comments put me on ignore. I am not the one who is starting commentary about you, I am replying to personal attacks directed to me. If you are not playing stupid that is obvious.
> 
> Get it through your head I don't have any medical issues requiring medication so stop referring for me to have a need to take meds, it is rude and insulting. Stop the personal attacks, and as stated stop communicating to or about me. If I kept on approaching you on the street after you asked me to stop talking to you and I continued, that is clear harassment, especially if I followed you everywhere you went and commented to you and about you. It is obsessive and rude both online and offline. The internet is not a fantasy world where the real world rules no longer exist. Get it through your head your comments are not welcome and I have asked you to stop making offensive and false statements as well as alluding to things I have stated I have not. Just pretend I don't exist and go on about your life, you are an annoying troll. Stop bugging me, this thread isn't about me so stop talking about your fantasies ascribed to me. It is uncalled for, fantasize in private not a place I have to see your delusions. People fictionalizing my life is not welcome, don't. Having deluded people stalk you online isn't a good activity, so as stated stop it is criminal and totally unwelcome behaviour. Single instances wouldn't be an issue but this is constant abuse, it is criminal, stop.


I find you to be one really funny (not Haha) guy. First I didn't post anything in response to your babblings until you openly attacked another poster with one of your diatribes. You don't like being called out for your rude and insulting posts, but instead of being a man about it you go right on attacking the messenger. Secondly you were the one to post at some length about your experiments with using electricity to enhance your cranial capacity. Your diatribe on that makes it look like you are an expert. However it doesn't seem that the rest of the Medical world shares your beliefs. To them what you were describing is only useful to treat mild depression. Thirdly, over the past 20 or so years,I've had the good fortune to encounter - in person - an aweful lot of folks that share some of your attributes.

Lastly if we offend you that much why do you insist on attacking other posters that don't share your points of view?

(and if you're wondering the cat had to go outside to do her business and this killed the couple of minutes while she did it)


----------



## A Watchman

Will2 said:


> OK, and...
> 
> Please stop your obsessive stalker behaviour it is disturbing.


Once again you claim to being stalked here, yet why is it many members feel you are the stalker? You know certain posts are going to trigger a negative response, yet you continue to set the stage for self inflicted abuse.


----------



## SittingElf

This thread is Funnnnnnn!!



























I have a theory. The multiple alien abductions and anal probings that "someone" here has endured, is probably responsible for the brain scrambling that has clearly ensued.


----------



## Prepared One

SittingElf said:


> This thread is Funnnnnnn!!
> 
> View attachment 15449
> View attachment 15449
> View attachment 15449
> View attachment 15449
> 
> 
> I have a theory. The multiple alien abductions and anal probings that "someone" here has endured, is probably responsible for the brain scrambling that has clearly ensued.


That theory would explain it. Of course! I should have thought of that!


----------



## Will2

Will2 said:


> True but don't be confused CPR doesn't have a very high success rate anyway.  (it is worth a try though)
> 
> In general if you don't have an AED and someone already had cardiac arrest chances are very low CPR will revive them, it can though.
> 
> Everyone should be CPR w/ AED trained. There really isn't much more to HCP trainin with red cross.
> 
> Things like shock treatment are going to be bigger issues during most emergencies, and things like knowing how to do basic trauma.
> 
> Anything really serious i.e. priority is likely going to die with a first responder unless the hospital is nearby, of course you can save lives with it.
> 
> There are a many books on things like Anatomy and Pathology online to learn from, even software programs that teach it. Lots of free chemistry courses also.
> 
> Tons of info out there. First aid is more like a one or two day study program that you can refresh every few months to keep fresh. Don't stop with First aid
> 
> Books like Muir's textbook of Pathology and tons of others give a good introduction to medicine.
> 
> There are tons of software books from nursing to paramedic, to full on medical practice and non courses available online for free these days.
> 
> If you are having trouble on where to start I can offer you some suggestions.


OK lets go back to my original post before the trolls started harassing me. Perhaps we can go back to other posts statements before they derailed the thread and turned into into flame baited nonsense, lies and misinformation to launch personal attacks based on false information.

Ok thanks, perhaps sanity can prevail and the people with delusional, obsessive compulsive, and psychotic and sadistic nuisance behaviours will learn to stop typing posts. Dude even thinks he speaks for the medical community on a commercial novelty technology and obviously has no idea what he is talking about, oh yes representative of all of world, the guy is having such massive delusions of grandeur its not even funny. I pitty the trolls and hate them at the same time, they are hopeless. Honestly what screws people up so much they don't understand a request not to talk to someone, a 5 year old can understand those types of requests.

You all done yet or do you feel like foaming at the mouth and being nuisances for longer? Really grow the hell up.

Anyway I am off for the day as I am on the road today, visting with family who is vacationing so, have fun people lets see if you can be mature and reply maturely to my post and topic or if you continue your rabies fed diatribe. Here is your chance intelligently respond to what I wrote without launching personal attacks, I think you can do it. If there is fault in what I wrote by all means correct me but don't resort to personal attacks. I have already spoke to Warrior4 about the post, and realize that he is a paramedic now, something I was not aware of before, however my post while a reply to what he said was not a reply to him personally. I do not engage personally, although occasionally I do need to state my disbelief at statements that are attributed to an individual. None the less give it a go, try to salvage the thread by actually replying to what I wrote instead of launching personal attacks against me. You should have no need to resort to a cult of personality to play the shame and blame game. If you post doesn't refer to me or isn't about me we should be good, otherwise you should be clearly aware I have asked you not to communicate with or about me, to those to which it applies. I'm off.


----------



## Kauboy

Did you really just start your comment with "let's get back to the topic before the attacks derailed it", and then immediately attack and continue the same derailment spectacle for three paragraphs?
Seriously?


----------



## paraquack

warrior4 said:


> In my class we had a 9 week I believe it was module all about Cardiology. It included EKG morphology, reading a 12 lead, and ACLS algorithms. Good times let me tell you.


Us guys, not so much the women classmates, used to collect ekg strips likes baseball cards (the interesting ones)


----------



## Real Old Man

From oh he who's name shall not be mentioned. * I highly doubt your authenticity, as the airforce doesn't even have combat medics MOS.*

elf said he went to OCS and t hen to Flight school. FYI the army has both fixed and rotary winged pilots with a training school for them (back in the day ) at fort Rucker Alabama.

So leave the Elf alone


----------



## Real Old Man

A Watchman said:


> Long winded advise from an uniformed member with out practicle or actual personal application .... out side of GOOGLE.


Aucontraire! He's probably gone here for a DIY program: DIY TDCS

Maybe if we hook it up to the lightning rod Igor we can make something really happen


----------



## Prepared One

Kauboy said:


> Did you really just start your comment with "let's get back to the topic before the attacks derailed it", and then immediately attack and continue the same derailment spectacle for three paragraphs?
> Seriously?


Yes. Yes he really did.


----------



## bigwheel

Plumbum said:


> As im new to prepping I ofc have alot of issues to attend. In last month I have addressed water storage and pruification and expanded the food supply from 2 week to 2-3 months and what I now feel is at the top of the list is medical emergencies. The only medical training I have is the basics from the army on how to stop bleading etc, and to be honest I dont remeber much of it. Where to I go from here, recomended reading materials, supplies etc?
> 
> Greatful for any advice


Buy this book. They passed it out to the Troops in WW II. Since this is the modern version I would tune out the parts which advocate **** conduct..beastiality or other kinky stuff like that. The 1940 variant did not mention such weird stuff. Now they messed up big time on snake bites. Holler back if that happens. 
http://www.amazon.com/Scout-Handboo...58167081&sr=1-1&keywords=boys+scouts+handbook


----------



## A Watchman

Okay Will2, here are fair questions from your tag line that deserves clarity:

Admit Nothing / Deny Everything / Make Counter Accusations *What do you expect to gain with this philosophy that is productive in any of life's arenas?*
-
Thou shalt
neither trust nor confide in anyone! *Sounds like a lonely existence, and no relationships - family?*
never use thine own telephone! *Well who the hell's phone you gonna use? Or who's computer?*
not touch thine form of revenge! *But you do don't you? Seems you like the sue and report words.*
become a garbage collector! *Don't we all collect? One man's trash is another's treasure.*
bide thy time! *Yea, we all wonder what you are laying low for?*
secure a "mail-drop" address in another city!*Sure would hate to miss an IRS notice huh?*
learn everything there is to learn! *Damn, you got one right?*
pay cash all the time! *Get robbed some of the time? Not practical for many in today's electronic world.*
trade with merchants who have never heard of you! *Never heard of you = does not trust you and eliminates buying or bartering skills/power?*
never threaten thy intended victim! *Naw .... you would never consider this would ya?*
not leave evidence lying around, however circumstantial. *You have left more evidence of your self auto biography on this site than could be put in a book?*


----------



## bigwheel

Sounds like a double naught spy with a license to kill.


----------



## Will2

bigwheel said:


> Buy this book. They passed it out to the Troops in WW II. Since this is the modern version I would tune out the parts which advocate **** conduct..beastiality or other kinky stuff like that. The 1940 variant did not mention such weird stuff. Now they messed up big time on snake bites. Holler back if that happens.
> http://www.amazon.com/Scout-Handboo...58167081&sr=1-1&keywords=boys+scouts+handbook


The 12th edition is available here
http://celeste429.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Boy Scout Handbook 12th Edition.pdf

This seems to be a couple years old now not sure how old it is. First aid stuff starts on page 125, it is actually pretty comprehensive emergency first aid.

Apparently the changes are mostly cosmetic and organizational so I am guessing most of the relevant first aid material is the same between the 12th and 13th editions



> . Chapters 2 through 12 cover the same subjects as before, with some new content or reorganization of previous content. The outside edges of pages contain a colored line and chapter name for handy reference (as did the 12th Edition). The most noticeable change is a brighter, cleaner 'look'. The distracting stylistic dots/smudges that cluttered the background of the 12th Edition's pages are gone. The reason for the new edition is the usual one, changes to the advancement requirements.


I think the edition you are referring to, is either the 3rd or 4th edition as there weren't, as I am sure you are aware, yearly prints back in those days there were big blocks.

The 3rd and 4th edition went from the crash until after WWII. 27-40 3rd and 40-48 or so 4th

This website seems to have a lot of scout materials.

Celeste 429 | Scouting in Celeste, TX and Surrounding Communities

I'm having difficulty finding a copy of the 3rd and 4th editions for comparison though. Are they public domain now? The 3rd must be nearly public domain due to it being close to 100 years old, well 90 years old, not sure how long it lasts or if it is retained.

Note the person who posted the red cross handbook I can only assume is republishing it with permission since it is easily accessible online. Since it is a dated version I am geussing the redcross allowed it to be stored on their website

bearing they did state, fair use for discussion/instruction etc..,


> All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in
> a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic,
> mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without prior written
> permission from American Red Cross National Headquarters, Products and
> Health and Safety Services.


 And it is still available I am geussing the file is ok to share, none the less I am posting the url not the file itself. This link will be removed if the redcross notifies me it is being shared contrary to its wishes. It is a useful resource.

http://shermanlakeymca.org/wp-conte...ponding-to-Emergencies-PARTICIPANT-Manual.pdf


----------



## Will2

A Watchman said:


> Okay Will2, here are fair questions from your tag line that deserves clarity [/B]


Here is my calling card http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=8586 , ask away to my message box, I'll have my receptionist look at them, if you didn't notice this a discussion forum that people talk about various topics. The topic of this thread is titled "Food, Health and Fitness Survival" *"Medicine for dummys?*

I have absolutely no desire to derail a discussion topic to engage in explaining a tag line of an account whether it is mine or anyone elses in this thread.

I have no kind words for you. Stop nagging me. Stop talking to me or about me. I don't care and I don't owe you any answers. I have invited for you to send your questions to my message box at http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=8586 regardless of what you think, I owe you no answers at all, your sanity is in doubt. You appear to me as a nutcase stalker who is fixated on me. I have no desire to engage you. Get a clue.

Also if you'd like me to waste my time entertaining your questions I can offer you the low low rate of $250 an hour paid in advance. The choice is yours.


----------



## Kauboy

You say you have no desire to engage, yet you keep engaging. Perhaps you don't understand the concept?


----------



## A Watchman

Will,

I will pass on your offer of paying for your advice. I am just trying to help you understand that NO ONE is stalking you here. This is a forum where people simply post their thoughts and share information about prepping, survival, life, and even each other when any poster's comments leave room for a rebuttal.

It's really that simple.

A Watchman


----------



## Will2

Kauboy if I need to reply to prevent misinformation or to give someone notice of a cease and desist, I will do so. Speaking with someone to tell them not to communicate with you is not an invitation for you to communicate with them. It is a statement not an invitation for further harassment. Normal people can understand that. It is a very simple concept. Someone asks you to stop sending them communications you stop sending them communications. Someone requests you stop posting false, misleading and defamatory statements you stop doing that, failure to stop is you being a criminal and also likely opens you up to civil suits. You all arn't taking it seriously it appears. It is a serious matter. This is not posted for discussion this is posted to inform you to stop communicating with or about me. You all don't know the difference between civil discourse and defamatory attacks, that is why I am instructing you not to reference to me or about me because you don't seem to understand how people are suppose to communicate in public without violating peoples rights and offending them. A clear sign that is occurring is them requesting you stop those communications. Get this point and stop.

Just to be clear that only specific individuals regardless of how many accounts they use, have been asked to stop communication with or about me, this is not a blanket order but applies to those to whom I have communicated not to communicate with or about me.

The only reason this is being posted here is because they refuse to use personal messaging for personal messages because in fact they just want to cause a scene and get me banned, damage my reputation and insult and offend me, nothing else.


----------



## Will2

A Watchman said:


> Will,
> 
> I will pass on your offer of paying for your advice. I am just trying to help you understand that NO ONE is stalking you here. This is a forum where people simply post their thoughts and share information about prepping, survival, life, and even each other when any poster's comments leave room for a rebuttal.
> 
> It's really that simple.
> 
> A Watchman


Watchmen I am without a doubt being stalked on this website by a group of trolls including you.



> Cyberstalking is the use of the Internet or other electronic means to stalk or harass an individual, a group, or an organization.[1] It may include false accusations, defamation, slander and libel. It may also include monitoring, identity theft, threats, vandalism, solicitation for sex, or gathering information that may be used to threaten or harass.
> Cyberstalking is a criminal offense under various state anti-stalking, slander and harassment laws. A conviction can result in a restraining order, probation, or criminal penalties against the assailant, including jail.


I will say it one last time stop communicating with me or about me. Don't bother replying to this, just stop communicating with or about me. It is really that simple no discussion required.

The totality of your engagement is to find grounds to harass, slander and defame me launch personal attacks and be a general nuiance. Shut your trap already. I have asked nicely a few times, this is getting really really old.

You have no social decency and are being criminal, stop it. I will escalate if it continues.

If anyone online or off informs you your communications with them are unwanted and they request you stop those communications, I suggest you do that immediately, repeated unwanted contacts are harassment, understand that and stop communicating with me.


----------



## SittingElf

> Watchmen I am without a doubt being stalked on this website by a group of trolls including you.
> 
> _Cyberstalking is the use of the Internet or other electronic means to stalk or harass an individual, a group, or an organization.[1] It may include false accusations, defamation, slander and libel. It may also include monitoring, identity theft, threats, vandalism, solicitation for sex, or gathering information that may be used to threaten or harass.
> Cyberstalking is a criminal offense under various state anti-stalking, slander and harassment laws. A conviction can result in a restraining order, probation, or criminal penalties against the assailant, including jail. _
> 
> I will say it one last time stop communicating with me or about me. Don't bother replying to this, just stop communicating with or about me. It is really that simple no discussion required.


Rebuttals to specious and questionable posts is NOT cyberstalking. No one has "accused" you of anything. No one has defamed you other than reference your own statements. No one has "threatened", though YOU have threatened others in so many words. Libel is difficult to prove and you must have suffered loss to prove. No one on THIS forum is "monitoring" you. We are being "subjected" to you. No one is, or even wants to steal your ID. No one here has made THREATS against you. You have not been the victim of vandalism here. You have not been solicited for sex here...at least in the public forum. I doubt that anyone here is trying to gather information about you in order to threaten or harass you.

YOU on the other hand 'could' be found guilty of harassment...and certainly SLANDER. You have purposely slandered me repeatedly by calling me a liar, fraud, and other things.... so you are calling the kettle black. It would be very easy for me to PROVE every claim that I have made about my background, positions, expertise, and occupations. In a court of law, you would be found guilty of slander...PERIOD!

So, pal.... you might want to rethink your constant THREATS and DEMANDS. You...and ONLY you are guilty of the same things you are accusing others of.

Oh.... this time I *AM* responding *DIRECTLY* to you, whether you like it or not. I really don't give a damn about your "demands"!


----------



## Kauboy

Will2 said:


> Kauboy if I need to reply to prevent misinformation or to give someone notice of a cease and desist, I will do so. Speaking with someone to tell them not to communicate with you is not an invitation for you to communicate with them. It is a statement not an invitation for further harassment. Normal people can understand that. It is a very simple concept. Someone asks you to stop sending them communications you stop sending them communications. Someone requests you stop posting false, misleading and defamatory statements you stop doing that, failure to stop is you being a criminal and also likely opens you up to civil suits. You all arn't taking it seriously it appears. It is a serious matter. This is not posted for discussion this is posted to inform you to stop communicating with or about me. You all don't know the difference between civil discourse and defamatory attacks, that is why I am instructing you not to reference to me or about me because you don't seem to understand how people are suppose to communicate in public without violating peoples rights and offending them. A clear sign that is occurring is them requesting you stop those communications. Get this point and stop.
> 
> Just to be clear that only specific individuals regardless of how many accounts they use, have been asked to stop communication with or about me, this is not a blanket order but applies to those to whom I have communicated not to communicate with or about me.
> 
> The only reason this is being posted here is because they refuse to use personal messaging for personal messages because in fact they just want to cause a scene and get me banned, damage my reputation and insult and offend me, nothing else.


If they aren't sending you personal messages, then they aren't sending you any communications.
You cannot declare a cease and desist on a public forum. My gosh, you're such a child, making up laws and rules as you go along.
Get the hint, ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING you post on a PUBLIC FORUM is "posted for discussion".
If you don't want discussion, post it in your own controlled environment. Otherwise, stop whining.


----------



## Real Old Man

:bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs::bs:


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> Rebuttals to specious and questionable posts is NOT cyberstalking. No one has "accused" you of anything. No one has defamed you other than reference your own statements. No one has "threatened", though YOU have threatened others in so many words. Libel is difficult to prove and you must have suffered loss to prove. No one on THIS forum is "monitoring" you. We are being "subjected" to you. No one is, or even wants to steal your ID. No one here has made THREATS against you. You have not been the victim of vandalism here. You have not been solicited for sex here...at least in the public forum. I doubt that anyone here is trying to gather information about you in order to threaten or harass you.
> 
> YOU on the other hand 'could' be found guilty of harassment...and certainly SLANDER. You have purposely slandered me repeatedly by calling me a liar, fraud, and other things.... so you are calling the kettle black. It would be very easy for me to PROVE every claim that I have made about my background, positions, expertise, and occupations. In a court of law, you would be found guilty of slander...PERIOD!
> 
> So, pal.... you might want to rethink your constant THREATS and DEMANDS. You...and ONLY you are guilty of the same things you are accusing others of.
> 
> Oh.... this time I *AM* responding *DIRECTLY* to you, whether you like it or not. I really don't give a damn about your "demands"!


"SittingElf" stop communicating with or about me.

Learn how to communicate in a thread without derailing it, oh unless you are derailing the thread intentionally to cause a scene as part of organized gang stalking.

Oh you are right I do think you are a liar, and are posting misinformation on this website. Changing statements after you got caught in a lie, regarding being in the airforce as a combat medic, where as the airforce has no combat medic MOS. Oh and no need to rehash this again. Big man, big words, won't stop communicating with someone who says that you are an annoying troll who is bugging them. Oh big man, can harass someone online, oh so big.

Lame, that is all it is utterly lame. I will again instruct you not to communicate with me.

As far as my harassing you, get real buddy. If I want to state my doubts about your authenticity I will, I have, and until you request I stop communicating about you, I will. I have asked you to stop communicating about me, I suggest you do that, and stop communicating about me or to me.

You are a scammer and a criminal as far as I am concerned. You have done nothing to disprove that.

I invite you to show me your military ID or get a letter from your commanding officer, until then you will be a troll con in my books, part of ongoing trolling net harassment. You have prooven nothing to me about your so said military past, I have extreme doubts you are a US military pilot. US military shouldn't be going around and advertising in the first place. None the less stop communicating with me.

Again do the forum a favour and personal message me if you want to continue this, the only reason you would continue this in this thread is for public effect, that is clear. Only further supporting the fact you have alterior motives in engaging me.


----------



## Will2

Kauboy said:


> If they aren't sending you personal messages, then they aren't sending you any communications.
> You cannot declare a cease and desist on a public forum. My gosh, you're such a child, making up laws and rules as you go along.
> Get the hint, ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING you post on a PUBLIC FORUM is "posted for discussion".
> If you don't want discussion, post it in your own controlled environment. Otherwise, stop whining.


No sorry Kauboy that is not how it works. Referencing to me via the internet is sending me a communication K thanks. Get yourself educated and try again. Even after that, still don't communicate with me. It is unwanted.

If you direct communications to me and I get them it is a communication to me. It is that simple. Public forum, website, whatever its all the same.

DO NOT COMMUNICATE WITH OR ABOUT ME.

communication. : the act or process of using words, sounds, signs, or behaviors to express or exchange information or to express your ideas, thoughts, feelings, etc., to someone else.

ref·er·ence
ˈref(ə)rəns/Submit
noun
1.
the action of mentioning or alluding to something.

Stop engaging me.

You want to be a nuisance bug someone else not me.

US MILITARY POLICY REGARDING SOCIAL MEDIA



> MC&FP does not allow profanity, graphic, obscene,
> explicit or racial comments or submissions, nor do we allow
> comments that are abusive, hateful or intended to defame
> anyone or any organization or institution.


Meanwhile you've been posting racist jokes, and engaged in personal attacks.

You have 0 credibility of being US military, 0.

I am one short click of sending some concerns to the US military.
http://www.cid.army.mil/reportacrime.html

You better be damn sure you are in the military, and quickly figure out what you are and are not suppose to be saying online, mr.


----------



## hawgrider




----------



## Real Old Man

*Oh you are right I do think you are a liar, and are posting misinformation on this website. Changing statements after you got caught in a lie, regarding being in the airforce as a combat medic, where as the airforce has no combat medic MOS. Oh and no need to rehash this again. Big man, big words, won't stop communicating with someone who says that you are an annoying troll who is bugging them. Oh big man, can harass someone online, oh so big*. Previous quote from the little big man> No Elf did not say that he was in the air force. You made that leap with out thinking it thru. He said he was a combat medic, then went to OCS, and then to flight school. And for someone obviously not familiar with the workings or organization of the US Army, they do have planes (and helicopters) and a school at fort rucker Alabama that teaches folks how to fly. So now who is the liar or the teller of misinformation. And if you got this wrong and aren't willing to own up to the mistake like a man but instead act like a little girl and go liar liar pants on fire - then what else have you posted that is just as bogus


----------



## SAR-1L




----------



## Kauboy

Will2 said:


> No sorry Kauboy that is not how it works. Referencing to me via the internet is sending me a communication K thanks.


No, it isn't. I can make a public statement of opinion, and that is NOT a direct communication to you.

Listen sunshine, I'm not in the military, I don't make racist jokes, and I'm about tired of your bullshit presumption of authority on a public forum.

I will continue to address you as long as you are a member of this board and continue to talk out of your rectal orifice.
I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOUR WISHES.
I've constantly told you to stop responding to me, and you continue to do so, yet expect me to cater to your fantasy whims.

Dream on, princess.


----------



## SittingElf

Will2 said:


> "SittingElf" stop communicating with or about me.
> 
> Learn how to communicate in a thread without derailing it, oh unless you are derailing the thread intentionally to cause a scene as part of organized gang stalking.
> 
> Oh you are right I do think you are a liar, and are posting misinformation on this website. Changing statements after you got caught in a lie, regarding being in the airforce as a combat medic, where as the airforce has no combat medic MOS. Oh and no need to rehash this again. Big man, big words, won't stop communicating with someone who says that you are an annoying troll who is bugging them. Oh big man, can harass someone online, oh so big.
> 
> Lame, that is all it is utterly lame. I will again instruct you not to communicate with me.
> 
> As far as my harassing you, get real buddy. If I want to state my doubts about your authenticity I will, I have, and until you request I stop communicating about you, I will. I have asked you to stop communicating about me, I suggest you do that, and stop communicating about me or to me.
> 
> You are a scammer and a criminal as far as I am concerned. You have done nothing to disprove that.
> 
> I invite you to show me your military ID or get a letter from your commanding officer, until then you will be a troll con in my books, part of ongoing trolling net harassment. You have prooven nothing to me about your so said military past, I have extreme doubts you are a US military pilot. US military shouldn't be going around and advertising in the first place. None the less stop communicating with me.
> 
> Again do the forum a favour and personal message me if you want to continue this, the only reason you would continue this in this thread is for public effect, that is clear. Only further supporting the fact you have alterior motives in engaging me.


First off dirtbag... I NEVER said I was in the air force....ever! I posted in the thread that AF Pararescue Personnel ARE medics and they go to the US Army Special Ops Medical Course. That's a FACT! My wife IS in the Air Force. She is the Commander of a Medical Operations Squadron, and a Critical Care and Flight Nurse. I was a SO Medic in the Army prior to changing my career by going to Officer Candidate School, followed by Flight School, after which I was an Attack Helicopter Pilot. That's a *FACT.

*And NO, Will. I will NOT PM with you. You've been public here on the forum accusing me of scamming and lying about my past and current occupation and experiences. You don't get off that easy Pally! I will respond to you in a PUBLIC forum any time I wish. If you don't like it, then YOU can bug off to some other forum....but you might find ME there as well. ( I''m sorry that you haven't had the life experiences I've had...and are seriously envious...but that's too bad)

You claim I'm a criminal. OK... You've made an accusation that you can't back up, but if you can..I'll be happy to turn myself in to the nearest police station for prosecution. C'mon....go for it dude!

Your pathetic diatribe, most of which you plagiarize from google incessantly, is essentially worthless. Total waste of bandwidth.

I am under absolutely NO obligation to adhere to your demands OR your whining. If this is how you prep, and plan to survive in SHTF, I'm sure the buzzards will make quick work of your corpse.

Cheers.....and we'll be "talking" here again soon!

P.S. In many of your posts, you might want to look smarter by using the proper "nonetheless", instead of three words "none the less"!


----------



## Real Old Man

Dude? Wasn't that the drunken deputy sheriff Dean Martin Played in Rio Bravo. Seems like he was always getting a spitoon full of chaw spit all over himself or getting knocked pizzling upwards into a pile of horse poop. After reconsidering that seems to fit Wee wille2 to a TTTTTTGT


----------



## SittingElf

Will2 said:


> US MILITARY POLICY REGARDING SOCIAL MEDIA
> _
> MC&FP does not allow profanity, graphic, obscene,
> explicit or racial comments or submissions, nor do we allow
> comments that are abusive, hateful or intended to defame
> anyone or any organization or institution._
> 
> Meanwhile you've been posting racist jokes, and engaged in personal attacks.
> 
> You have 0 credibility of being US military, 0.
> 
> I am one short click of sending some concerns to the US military.
> Report a Crime
> 
> You better be damn sure you are in the military, and quickly figure out what you are and are not suppose to be saying online, mr.


Thanks Will!! Best laugh I've had today!!!








Go ahead and report him! CID will also laugh their ass off!!
Let's see....a Canadian reporting that he's been "offended" on a PUBLIC, NON-MILITARY forum. Yup...They'll be right over to arrest Kauboy!!








MAN! You seriously need to get a life....or laid...or something!


----------



## Kauboy

SittingElf said:


> Thanks Will!! Best laugh I've had today!!!
> View attachment 15475
> 
> 
> Go ahead and report him! CID will also laugh their ass off!!
> Let's see....a Canadian reporting that he's been "offended" on a PUBLIC, NON-MILITARY forum. Yup...They'll be right over to arrest Kauboy!!
> View attachment 15476
> 
> 
> MAN! You seriously need to get a life....or laid...or something!


Just to clarify, I've never claimed to be, or intended to represent myself as, a member of any armed forces.
If Lil' Will made an assumption based on my tag line, that's his fault for choosing to be ignorant of the facts.


----------



## Real Old Man

US MILITARY POLICY REGARDING SOCIAL MEDIA

*MC&FP does not allow profanity, graphic, obscene,
explicit or racial comments or submissions, nor do we allow
comments that are abusive, hateful or intended to defame
anyone or any organization or institution.
Meanwhile you've been posting racist jokes, and engaged in personal attacks.
* Posted by wee willie2

A) calling you a liar isn't defaming you if it's true. He's not the one calling folks retards. And what racist jokes has elf made,. Calling you a dirt bag isn't racist as dirt isn't a race.

Boy you really do need to go back to your little hidey hole and plug yourself into your DIY brain stimulator


----------



## Real Old Man

You know If I had a face like Wille2, I think I'd buy a burqua


----------



## SittingElf

Kauboy said:


> Just to clarify, I've never claimed to be, or intended to represent myself as, a member of any armed forces.
> If Lil' Will made an assumption based on my tag line, that's his fault for choosing to be ignorant of the facts.


The fact is that it wouldn't matter if you were active duty anyway.

Unless you post a message in which you reflect your statement as a member of the US Military, and may be construed to be condoned by the military, you are an American, with totally FREE SPEECH rights and can post whatever the hell you please!

Military personnel can also participate in political discourse as long as they are not in uniform, and do not represent themselves as having the official position of the military. FREE SPEECH!

Get it, Will?


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> First off dirtbag... I NEVER said I was in the air force....ever! I posted in the thread that AF Pararescue Personnel ARE medics and they go to the US Army Special Ops Medical Course. That's a FACT! My wife IS in the Air Force. She is the Commander of a Medical Operations Squadron, and a Critical Care and Flight Nurse. I was a SO Medic in the Army prior to changing my career by going to Officer Candidate School, followed by Flight School, after which I was an Attack Helicopter Pilot. That's a *FACT.
> 
> *And NO, Will. I will NOT PM with you. You've been public here on the forum accusing me of scamming and lying about my past and current occupation and experiences. You don't get off that easy Pally! I will respond to you in a PUBLIC forum any time I wish. If you don't like it, then YOU can bug off to some other forum....but you might find ME there as well. ( I''m sorry that you haven't had the life experiences I've had...and are seriously envious...but that's too bad)
> 
> You claim I'm a criminal. OK... You've made an accusation that you can't back up, but if you can..I'll be happy to turn myself in to the nearest police station for prosecution. C'mon....go for it dude!
> 
> Your pathetic diatribe, most of which you plagiarize from google incessantly, is essentially worthless. Total waste of bandwidth.
> 
> I am under absolutely NO obligation to adhere to your demands OR your whining. If this is how you prep, and plan to survive in SHTF, I'm sure the buzzards will make quick work of your corpse.
> 
> Cheers.....and we'll be "talking" here again soon!
> 
> P.S. In many of your posts, you might want to look smarter by using the proper "nonetheless", instead of three words "none the less"!


I politely asked you to stop communicating with me. Your continued communications directed to me are considered harassment. All I can do at this point is wait for the army to reply if this is stolen valour or not. The next step would be the FBI, etc..

I think you are obligated to stop harassing me. We have a difference of opinion. I think it is sad this may need to become legal because you lack all common sense.



> Military imposters engage in a broad range of deceptive behaviors, all intended to achieve recognition from others. An imposter may make verbal statements, written claims, or create deceptive impressions through actions, such as wearing a uniform, rank insignia, unit symbols, medals, or patches.[2] Generally imposters fall into two broad categories: civilians who have never been in any branch of the military, and real veterans who make false claims about their experiences or accomplishments. Imposters in the latter category may claim any of the following:
> 
> Being the recipient of awards that were not earned
> Having a longer service duration
> Having a more favorable discharge
> Holding a higher rank than one actually held
> Having served with a different branch of the military
> Having served with a different unit that is more famous
> Being a different role or Military Occupational Specialty
> Involvement in a war or specific engagement one was not present for
> Performing a brave or valorous act that never happened
> Participation in "special" or "secret" operations
> Being a prisoner of war (POW).[11]
> While many individuals outright fabricate some or all of their military service history, others employ equivocation tactics or similarly misleading language that avoids making a technically false statement, but still gives a deceptive impression. A common example is stating one was in a branch of the military during a specific war. In many contexts, such a statement implies that the speaker was deployed to a combat zone, even if in reality never left their home country. A similar misleading statement is boasting about being a member of a branch or unit that is well known for its combat prowess and heroic achievements, when the speaker was purely in a logistical role without any combat experience. Imposters also frequently claim to be part of "classified" operations as an excuse for why they cannot provide details or, when confronted, why there is no record of their actions or service.[12]
> 
> Motivations[edit]
> Reasons for posing as a member of the military or exaggerating one's service record vary, but the intent is almost always about gaining the respect and admiration of others.[2] Philosophy professor Verna V. Gehring describes such people as "virtue imposters," in that they don't necessarily adopt the identity of another person, but instead adopt a false history for themselves to impersonate virtues and characteristics.[8] Many are only motivated by social recognition, attempting to exploit the reverence and respect for veterans in their country. These individuals often become absorbed in a fantasy of being a veteran that they attempt to live out in real life, sometimes even inserting themselves into public events or ceremonies, or volunteering for interviews with journalists about their alleged experiences.[2] Others are motivated by more direct gains, such as impressing employers, casting directors, audiences, investors, voters in political campaigns or romantic interests.[13]
> 
> Occasionally imposters use their claims in an attempt to intimidate others, such as claiming to be a trained sniper or ex-special forces, or use their fabricated experiences as a pretense of authority for their opinions on political matters.[14] False claims of military service are also used by panhandlers to increase their take, sometimes coupled with real or fake injuries that are implied to be combat-related.[15]
> 
> Detection[edit]
> Military imposters are frequently caught and exposed due to mistakes and inconsistencies in their story or behavior. For example, they may be too young or too old to have been in the war they say they were or too young for the rank they claim to be, might inadvertently claim to have been in two different places at once, or might state factually incorrect information about the war they allegedly were part of. Among imposters that wear uniforms, they often make mistakes about the placement of patches, insignia and medals, and may have some from the wrong branch or from old campaigns they could not possibly have been in.[16] Real veterans often can spot mistakes more readily, especially if they were part of the same branch the imposter claims to have been in.[17]
> 
> Some countries have ways of verifying military service and certain claims within it. In the United States, any real veteran that has been separated from the military for any reason has a DD Form 214 they can present, which indicates their branch, rank, unit, MOS, awards, and other information. Alternatively, requests can also be made to the National Personnel Records Center using the Freedom of Information Act to verify service. Other claims can be verified against public lists, such as recipients of the Medal of Honor or the prisoner of war list from the Vietnam War. Several websites are specifically devoted to verifying the claims of alleged military imposters, and if discovered to have lied, proceed to shame the perpetrator publicly.[7][9][18][19][20]
> 
> False accusations[edit]
> Accusations do occasionally backfire, with real veterans accused of being imposters. Doug Sterner, a Vietnam War veteran who catalogs military awards, and Stolen Valor author B.G. Burkett, note that some modern veteran have become hypersensitive to imposters, leading to vigilantism or even turning detection into a "hunting game."[21][22] A common error is placing too much emphasis on neatness of a uniform or certain quirks about how it's worn, which is not necessarily compelling when a veteran is older and has been out of the service for several decades.[21] Another is making too many inferences based on older regulations, such as gender restrictions that were in place in the past.[23] Sterner states, "There's some people that feel good about confronting people, and making themselves look big by trying to take them down. But when they do that, they're going to make mistakes."[22]
> 
> Criminal laws[edit]
> Laws vary between countries regarding false statements about military service and/or wearing of uniforms or medals. In the United States, the Stolen Valor Act of 2013 makes it a federal offense to falsely claim to have received any of several major military awards with the intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefits.[24] There are additional laws criminalizing the altering or forging of discharge documents,[25] and attempting to obtain veteran's benefits from the government. In the United Kingdom it is an offense under the Armed Forces Act 2006 to wear real or replica military decorations with intent to deceive.[10] Under the Australia's Defence Act, 1903, as amended, it is a federal crime to claim to be a returned soldier, sailor or airman. It is also a crime to wear any service decoration one has not earned. In Canada, section 419 of the Criminal Code makes it a crime to wear a uniform from the Canadian Forces without authority as well as any awards or marks not earned. It additionally makes it a crime to possess any fraudulent discharge papers, commissions, warrants or military ID, including those that are forged, altered or belong to someone else.[26]


Huff and puff all you want until you show evidence or the army comes back confirming your story, you are suspect. As far as your blatant disregard for a caution concerning harassing behaviour, it is your choice but as stated this will be escalated if you continue to harass me.

Hey here is an idea why don't you stop harassing me and instead actually contribute to the topic of the thread someone requesting useful information to improve their medical skills. You were trained as a medic wern't you, you should be able to supply some useful resources or information, shouldn't you?

Geesh, 7 years you'd think you'd be a treasure trove of medical info.


----------



## SittingElf

Will2 said:


> I politely asked you to stop communicating with me. Your continued communications directed to me are considered harassment. All I can do at this point is wait for the army to reply if this is stolen valour or not. The next step would be the FBI, etc..
> 
> I think you are obligated to stop harassing me. We have a difference of opinion. I think it is sad this may need to become legal because you lack all common sense.


Best of luck to you!

I'm not obligated to stop "communicating" in a public forum at all. And I'm not harassing you in the least. I am *RESPONDING* to your ridiculous accusations and your *threats* of persecution. (Not that I really care, and neither am I feeling "damaged" by you. I'll sleep just fine tonight)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contact the Army and FBI...... I can't wait!! Do you need phone numbers? Addresses? Contact names? (Oh yes, I have friends in the FBI) What name will you check? SittingElf??? LOL!!!

Tell you what....I'll give you my real name and other information that you can pass on to the Army and FBI.....but here's the rub.... Let's have a little wager. I'll put up US$10,000 (No Canadian dollars please) in escrow if you will do the same. If the FBI and Army say you are correct, and I'm full of shit, you get the $10K from me. However, when they tell you I am EXACTLY who I say I am, then you forfeit $10K. Is the bet on??? C'mon....this will be FUnnnnnnn!!! $10K will buy me a new long range rifle I've been wanting.

In the meantime, while we wait for the results from the FBI and ARMY, CIA and CID, and whoever else you want to "check with", you can kiss my backside you pathetic, ignorant, and useless idiot.

CHEERS!!!


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> Thanks Will!! Best laugh I've had today!!!
> View attachment 15475
> 
> 
> Go ahead and report him! CID will also laugh their ass off!!
> Let's see....a Canadian reporting that he's been "offended" on a PUBLIC, NON-MILITARY forum. Yup...They'll be right over to arrest Kauboy!!
> View attachment 15476
> 
> 
> MAN! You seriously need to get a life....or laid...or something!


SittingElf it was you who was reported obviously. Anyone with half a brain would understand.

Either your story checks out or it doesn't, it is really that simple.

You have yet to show anything to back up your claims. I think you arn't mature enough to be a attack helicopter pilot. My opinion. Most mature people know when to stop harassing people. You clearly don't. I don't think you have enough discipline to be what you claim. Plus I did catch the edit.

You are out of touch with reality if you think stalking and harassment are constitutional rights, they arn't they are criminal.


----------



## hawgrider




----------



## Arklatex

Wow! Will is such a complete and total pantywaste!!! Legal action over a forum conversation? LMAO!!! Hey Will, what's with all your talk of "normal" people about? And what would you know about them anyway? You're the craziest sumbitch I've ever seen! What's it like being butthurt all the time?


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> Best of luck to you!
> 
> I'm not obligated to stop "communicating" in a public forum at all.


I asked you to stop directing communications to me, or communicating about me. I havn't limited your speech except how it pertains to myself. If you arn't aware there are limits on speech acts especially those which are harassment, cause distress, and alarm.



> And I'm not harassing you in the least. I am


I said you are. I'll be the judge of when I am being harassed. I have informed you you are harassing me.
Stop communicating with me or about me.



> Tell you what....I'll give you my real name and other information that you can pass on to the Army and FBI.....but here's the rub.... Let's have a little wager. I'll put up US$10,000 (No Canadian dollars please) in escrow


I don't escrow with Nigerians sorry. Its just bad buisness.

How about you just give me the money now and you can screw off after I get it.

You expressing amusement only demonstrates how sick you are. This ain't a joke. You have been warned.

A simple solution is to contact your CO and have them contact me confirming your authenticity. Or showing military records that can confirm you story that you are allowed to show.

Until then I'll wait to see what the investigation turns up, if anything. I'm sure there arnt many female colonels in the US airforce medical corps that have attack copter husbands who were previously combat medics. Should be fairly easy to verify.

Until and after then, don't communicate with me or about me. Thanks. Have a nice day.


----------



## Kauboy

Will, this communication is specifically and directly pointed at you.

SHUT THE HELL UP YOU DIMINUTIVE TOOLBAG!

You started this whole shitstorm when you questioned the authenticity of a veteran. You doubled down when you claimed authority over who could say what in a public forum, and you've topped off the turd sundae by thinking you're actually going to convince anyone that you've contacted the United States Army about an internet persona who exposed you for the fool you are.

Just shut up and let this go. You have no authority, you've contacted nobody, and you're completely wrong.

SHUT UP!

(I hope Slippy saved me some cookies in the Box-o-Shame. Denton, I'm not sorry for the above, only that you'll have to deal with it all)


----------



## oldditchdoctor

Will2 said:


> I asked you to stop directing communications to me, or communicating about me. I havn't limited your speech except how it pertains to myself. If you arn't aware there are limits on speech acts especially those which are harassment, cause distress, and alarm.
> 
> I said you are. I'll be the judge of when I am being harassed. I have informed you you are harassing me.
> Stop communicating with me or about me.
> 
> I don't escrow with Nigerians sorry. Its just bad buisness.
> 
> How about you just give me the money now and you can screw off after I get it.
> 
> You expressing amusement only demonstrates how sick you are. This ain't a joke. You have been warned.
> 
> A simple solution is to contact your CO and have them contact me confirming your authenticity. Or showing military records that can confirm you story that you are allowed to show.
> 
> Until then I'll wait to see what the investigation turns up, if anything. I'm sure there arnt many female colonels in the US airforce medical corps that have attack copter husbands who were previously combat medics. Should be fairly easy to verify.
> 
> Until and after then, don't communicate with me or about me. Thanks. Have a nice day.


Why worry about it, not sure they'd save you anyway...


----------



## Arklatex

Will2 said:


> I asked you to stop directing communications to me, or communicating about me. I havn't limited your speech except how it pertains to myself. If you arn't aware there are limits on speech acts especially those which are harassment, cause distress, and alarm.
> 
> I said you are. I'll be the judge of when I am being harassed. I have informed you you are harassing me.
> Stop communicating with me or about me.
> 
> I don't escrow with Nigerians sorry. Its just bad buisness.
> 
> How about you just give me the money now and you can screw off after I get it.
> 
> You expressing amusement only demonstrates how sick you are. This ain't a joke. You have been warned.
> 
> A simple solution is to contact your CO and have them contact me confirming your authenticity. Or showing military records that can confirm you story that you are allowed to show.
> 
> Until then I'll wait to see what the investigation turns up, if anything. I'm sure there arnt many female colonels in the US airforce medical corps that have attack copter husbands who were previously combat medics. Should be fairly easy to verify.
> 
> Until and after then, don't communicate with me or about me. Thanks. Have a nice day.


You're really serious aren't you? Even if the guy was faking it why would it bother you so much? I believe him as he's got no reason to lie. I also believe that you are a do nothing loser. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and take his bet if you're so confident? Is it because you know you're wrong?


----------



## SittingElf

Will2 said:


> I asked you to stop directing communications to me, or communicating about me. I havn't limited your speech except how it pertains to myself. If you arn't aware there are limits on speech acts especially those which are harassment, cause distress, and alarm.
> 
> I said you are. I'll be the judge of when I am being harassed. I have informed you you are harassing me.
> Stop communicating with me or about me.
> 
> *I don't escrow with Nigerians sorry. Its just bad buisness. *
> 
> How about you just give me the money now and you can screw off after I get it.
> 
> You expressing amusement only demonstrates how sick you are. This ain't a joke. You have been warned.
> 
> A simple solution is to contact you CO and have them contact me confirming your authenticity. Or showing military records that can confirm you story that you are allowed to show.
> 
> Until then I'll wait to see what the investigation turns up.


LOL! Now I'm a Nigerian!!!!

I WORK in Nigeria you putz! Month on, month off.

Just for fun, I'll show you the Nigerian equivalent of what we would call a Green Card here in the USA. (My name is blocked out, but that's my picture) I'm sure you won't be convinced, but what the hell....









Oh yeah....I was also with Blackwater for five years, and I had to go fly with my guys in Afghanistan as the Chief Pilot. Had to get that old Visa, you know.....Defense Contractors can't go without that Visa!!









But, with this, I'm sure you still won't be convinced. Taking pictures of military ID cards IS against the law, so that ain't gonna happen.

Oh wait....here's a picture of me during a refueling of my helicopter on the USS J C Stennis Aircraft Carrier when I was a Blackwater Defense Contractor flying a Navy Contract... or maybe it's just photoshopped. Hmmmm....









The truth is, I don't need to prove a freaking thing to you. I'll respond to your posts as often as I feel appropriate to counter your allegations and ignorance.

Send the police.... I won't run!

CHEERS!


----------



## Prepared One

OK. I have discarded SiitingElf's theory of butt probing aliens. I have come to the firm conclusion that a certain person who shall remain nameless needs a long rest with plenty of medication. A nice place with padded rooms and nice clean white jackets.


----------



## Will2

Kauboy said:


> Will, this communication is specifically and directly pointed at you.
> 
> SHUT THE HELL UP YOU DIMINUTIVE TOOLBAG!
> 
> You started this whole shitstorm when you questioned the authenticity of a veteran. You doubled down when you claimed authority over who could say what in a public forum, and you've topped off the turd sundae by thinking you're actually going to convince anyone that you've contacted the United States Army about an internet persona who exposed you for the fool you are.
> 
> Just shut up and let this go. You have no authority, you've contacted nobody, and you're completely wrong.
> 
> SHUT UP!
> 
> (I hope Slippy saved me some cookies in the Box-o-Shame. Denton, I'm not sorry for the above, only that you'll have to deal with it all)


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> LOL! Now I'm a Nigerian!!!!
> 
> I WORK in Nigeria you putz! Month on, month off.
> 
> Just for fun, I'll show you the Nigerian equivalent of what we would call a Green Card here in the USA. (My name is blocked out, but that's my picture) I'm sure you won't be convinced, but what the hell....
> 
> View attachment 15478
> 
> 
> Oh yeah....I was also with Blackwater for five years, and I had to go fly with my guys in Afghanistan as the Chief Pilot. Had to get that old Visa, you know.....Defense Contractors can't go without that Visa!!
> 
> View attachment 15479
> 
> 
> But, with this, I'm sure you still won't be convinced. Taking pictures of military ID cards IS against the law, so that ain't gonna happen.
> 
> Oh wait....here's a picture of me during a refueling of my helicopter on the USS J C Stennis Aircraft Carrier when I was a Blackwater Defense Contractor flying a Navy Contract... or maybe it's just photoshopped. Hmmmm....
> 
> View attachment 15480
> 
> 
> The truth is, I don't need to prove a freaking thing to you. I'll respond to your posts as often as I feel appropriate to counter your allegations and ignorance.
> 
> Send the police.... I won't run!
> 
> CHEERS!


I'm not sure if you are intentionally trying to make me laugh - but you chose a Nigerian bank note and an afgani visa in assumed arabic or farsii or whatever the hell they call it as evidence of your service in the US military. Uh, did it dawn on you something in English from a reputable country might be more convincing.

And again stop communicating with me.

Are you in the military or not yes or no?

I've already asked you repeatedly to stop harassing me by communicating with me, your failure to do that will be seen as intentional malice and exercising with the intention to harass me further.

As you don't intend to answer the question and I've asked you to stop communicating with me, do us both a favour and heed my request.

Also it raises the question why is an army pilot operating off of an aircraft carrier. Although this may happen again this doesn't add cred to your story.

If you want to communicate with me the only avenue you should take is via personal message feature on the site, any other form is unwelcome and viewed as intentional harassment.


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> The fact is that it wouldn't matter if you were active duty anyway.


Again not lending to your story



> Soldiers using social media must abide
> by the Uniform Code of Military Justice
> at all times. Commenting, posting, or
> linking to material that violates the
> UCMJ or basic rules of Soldier conduct
> is prohibited.
>  Social media provides Soldiers the
> opportunity to talk about their interests
> and keep in touch with friends and
> family. However, Soldiers are subject to
> the Uniform Code of Military Justice
> even when off duty


For being an officer you sure don't know the rules.

Also sort of funny that you can't contribute to a thread about learning life saving skills as a former so said combat medic. Awfully odd, just saying. Seems you are happier reposting internet garbage from other old websites and laughing inappropriately when people say you are harassing them.

Isn't this a great conversation, I'm sure we both want to have?

Why don't you do us both a favour and interact with someone else. Hopefully you can tell, you don't seem to care you are offending me, and for me that is a definite turn off to not want to talk with you.


----------



## Will2

Prepared One said:


> OK. I have discarded SiitingElf's theory of butt probing aliens. I have come to the firm conclusion that a certain person who shall remain nameless needs a long rest with plenty of medication. A nice place with padded rooms and nice clean white jackets.



View attachment 15482


----------



## oldditchdoctor

Will2 said:


> I'm not sure if you are intentionally trying to make me laugh - but you chose a Nigerian bank note and an afgani visa in assumed arabic or farsii or whatever the hell they call it as evidence of your service in the US military. Uh, did it dawn on you something in English from a reputable country might be more convincing.
> 
> And again stop communicating with me.
> 
> Are you in the military or not yes or no?
> 
> I've already asked you repeatedly to stop harassing me by communicating with me, your failure to do that will be seen as intentional malice and exercising with the intention to harass me further.
> 
> As you don't intend to answer the question and I've asked you to stop communicating with me, do us both a favour and heed my request.
> 
> Also it raises the question why is an army pilot operating off of an aircraft carrier. Although this may happen again this doesn't add cred to your story.
> 
> If you want to communicate with me the only avenue you should take is via personal message feature on the site, any other form is unwelcome and viewed as intentional harassment.


Pathetic. Just stop responding. Or, leave, either is fine.


----------



## SittingElf

Will2 said:


> I'm not sure if you are intentionally trying to make me laugh - but you chose a Nigerian bank note and an afgani visa in assumed arabic or farsii or whatever the hell they call it as evidence of your service in the US military. Uh, did it dawn on you something in English from a reputable country might be more convincing.
> 
> And again stop communicating with me.
> 
> Are you in the military or not yes or no?
> 
> I've already asked you repeatedly to stop harassing me by communicating with me, your failure to do that will be seen as intentional malice and exercising with the intention to harass me further.
> 
> As you don't intend to answer the question and I've asked you to stop communicating with me, do us both a favour and heed my request.
> 
> Also it raises the question why is an army pilot operating off of an aircraft carrier. Although this may happen again this doesn't add cred to your story.
> 
> If you want to communicate with me the only avenue you should take is via personal message feature on the site, any other form is unwelcome and viewed as intentional harassment.


GEEZZZZ you are dense!

First off... I am NOT in the Army any longer. Hence the references to my time AFTER the Army flying in the Gulf of Mexico, then with Blackwater, and now working in Nigeria as a Heavy Helicopter Pilot! Is it THAT difficult for you to comprehend?? My WIFE is active duty in the US Air Force....for the third time!

That wasn't a banknote you idiot. The amount on the document is what my company paid to the Nigerian Government for the Residency Certificate. Read the top of the page! IMMIGRATION...not BANK!

The visa, if you would LOOK is in both ENGLISH and AFGHANI languages, and as I stated in my last post, I WAS A DEFENSE CONTRACTOR...NOT MILITARY AT THE TIME!! Are you really that ignorant??

On the carrier, I WAS A DEFENSE CONTRACTOR working a Navy CONTRACT as a CIVILIAN!! It's called VERTREP..(You can google it like always). Vertical Replenishment at Sea. Resupplying the Navy Battle Groups off of a Naval Supply Ship.

THIS is what we did:








The contracts are still in force. That's the USS Nimitz in the background on a stormy day.

I told you earlier. I have no interest in Personal Messaging with you. You post on the public forum, and you can bet your sweet ass that I'm going to respond!

I've answered your questions....your turn!


----------



## Will2

Arklatex said:


> You're really serious aren't you?


Serious about expecting people I specifically request not to communicate with me or about because I find their conduct to be harassment and defamatory, YES!

As a matter of fact since you believe that I am a do nothing loser. How about you make it a better place for both of us and you can not communicate with me or about me also. Pretty simple.



> Why don't you put your money where your mouth is


Are you stupid? If he was lying I wouldn't be seeing a return anyway. Its all risk no return. Fairly simple. I have no trust in him, I don't do business with him.

None the less


----------



## Real Old Man

Will2 said:


> I'm not sure if you are intentionally trying to make me laugh - but you chose a Nigerian bank note and an afgani visa in assumed arabic or farsii or whatever the hell they call it as evidence of your service in the US military. Uh, did it dawn on you something in English from a reputable country might be more convincing.
> 
> And again stop communicating with me.
> 
> Are you in the military or not yes or no?
> 
> I've already asked you repeatedly to stop harassing me by communicating with me, your failure to do that will be seen as intentional malice and exercising with the intention to harass me further.
> 
> As you don't intend to answer the question and I've asked you to stop communicating with me, do us both a favour and heed my request.
> 
> Also it raises the question why is an army pilot operating off of an aircraft carrier. Although this may happen again this doesn't add cred to your story.
> 
> If you want to communicate with me the only avenue you should take is via personal message feature on the site, any other form is unwelcome and viewed as intentional harassment.


You are one little pathetic butt hole. Kauboy believe him, I believe him. Your opinion of his authenticity doesn't matter one hill of beans. And you asked him a question in this thread and he provided you (and the rest of us) with his bona fides. You don't want folks responding to your goofball posts, don't post and we won't have to call you on your lack of knowledge about the real world.

Elf probably forgotten more than you could ever hope to imagine. Maybe if you posted reasonable responses no one would call out your lack of any normal life experiences.


----------



## SittingElf

Awww Arklatex.....sigh...

Welcome to the wonderful world of "those who have been banned from communicating with Will2".

Now, be sure you don't talk to him anymore, because he'll file charges against you!


----------



## Will2

SittingElf said:


> I told you earlier. I have no interest in Personal Messaging with you. You post on the public forum, and you can bet your sweet ass that I'm going to respond! I've answered your questions....your turn!


Actually you still don't have anything verifable. I can post some pictures too and make up a story. Your story is not verified, or verifiable it isn't strong enough for me not to have my doubts.

It does clarify that

1. You are not US military.
2. You have not proven your service record in the military.

While it is maybe plausible very slightly, it in no way resolves the fact you are communicating with me, and you should not be.

I will say one more time your communications are unwanted and I consider them unsolicited communications. If you value your career I suggest you stop harassing me as I am noting the communications so that I can provide a big bundle, not just point to individual communications that will be taken out of context.

The more you communicate unwanted communications the more there is building a case of harassment.

You may feel at liberty to harass people but it isn't a constitutional right, in fact it is a constitutional protection not to be harassed and defamed. There are criminal and civil processes, and your repeated unwanted contacts and defamatory speech are contrary to reasonable discourse.

I will not be repeating my self. You are a waste of my time so don't expect nice little replies from me from this point on, you have been warned, and I will be escalating the more you try me.

You don't have question for me you are here to harass and defame me and frustrate me and get me banned. Lets get real, you contribute nothing to this topic doing this bull. You want to ask me random question that have nothing to do with the thread, send it to my PM, that is it that is all. I am not here for your amusement or public display.


----------



## Will2

Real Old Man said:


> You are one little pathetic butt hole. Kauboy believe him, I believe him. Your opinion of his authenticity doesn't matter one hill of beans. And you asked him a question in this thread and he provided you (and the rest of us) with his bona fides. You don't want folks responding to your goofball posts, don't post and we won't have to call you on your lack of knowledge about the real world.
> 
> Elf probably forgotten more than you could ever hope to imagine. Maybe if you posted reasonable responses no one would call out your lack of any normal life experiences.


Dude again stop communicating with me.

I asked him to communicate with me via Private messaging, and encouraged him to contribute to the topic of this thread to give people information on how they can better learn medicine.

Trolling and flaming me and derailing the topic is helping no real prepper on the forum.

Obviously since you are likely just a troll and not really interested in prepping why don't you just bugger off.

Why do you need to ruin the experience and make it harder for people to find information related to prepping?

You are a nuisance in doing this.

This is not a roast, it is a discussion forum. I don't care what you think, wasting our time is not going to help either of us, it is just going to make people less intelligent.

I wouldn't call on someone to post personally identifying information to the general public, and nothing short of verifiable information is going to be good enough to convince me. Some pictures and easily doctorable ones at that are not evidence or proof of anything for me if I can't verify them.

It is really unfortunate such disrespectful people are being shown in uniform and with an american flag none the less.


----------



## SittingElf

"Nice little replies"??? Are you serious???
You haven't posted a "nice" reply since your crap started!

I'd love to see what you "think" you can do to my career! Give it a go! I'm standing by for your attack that will destroy my career! (If you need to speak with my bosses, who are from England, you have to fly to Lagos, spend the night there, and then fly out to Escravos first thing in the morning... Then you have to get Chevron to allow you onto the camp in order to walk to our hangar and speak to my bosses. I would be pleased to make sure you don't get lost along the way....).

And so there is no room for misunderstanding... I WILL NOT ACQUIESCE TO YOUR DEMAND FOR NO COMMUNICATION ON THIS PUBLIC FORUM! PERIOD! You post, I'll respond...always! Hell, depending on the content, I may even agree with you. You just never know.

The best thing you can do is put me on your IGNORE list. I can help you find the right place to do that if you need it. I will still see your posts, and will respond when I feel it appropriate.

Will, you can't win this one. Better to realize that I AM who I say I am. No bullshit. My background is deep into both military as well as up-close Dept of Defense work. I'm the last person you want to **** with...trust me! If you think I'll back down, you are sadly mistaken.

You can consider this a "trigger warning" as the PC world says now. You can run to your "safe zone" by ignoring me!


----------



## Arklatex

Will2 said:


> Serious about expecting people I specifically request not to communicate with me or about because I find their conduct to be harassment and defamatory, YES!
> 
> As a matter of fact since you believe that I am a do nothing loser. How about you make it a better place for both of us and you can not communicate with me or about me also. Pretty simple.
> 
> Are you stupid? If he was lying I wouldn't be seeing a return anyway. Its all risk no return. Fairly simple. I have no trust in him, I don't do business with him.
> 
> None the less
> View attachment 15484


Stop communication with you? Lol. No thanks. It's much better to continue calling you a butthurt loser. Because that's just what you are. Whatcha gonna do about you sorry ass no working loser? Sue me? Report more of my posts like the little bitch that you are? Good luck. By the way your dreadlocks and sorry attempt at a beard look stupid. Just saying.


----------



## Kauboy

Gentlemen, the unholy congealment that calls itself Will2 has lost all concept of reality.
It has no grasp of the meaning behind "presumed innocence".
It has resorted to a tactic often used by those with no ground left on which to stand.
It is making demands for proof of truth, when no evidence of falsehood has been presented.
A common, and stupid, ploy to win an argument when nothing substantial exists.
It won't work.
The mass has nothing, is nothing, and will forever be nothing...

While we're on the topic of "Medicine for Dummies", does anyone have any suggestions for the congealed mass? OTC, prescription, illicit? Anything?

EDIT: I just thought of one! Ark would agree, "Preparation-H" would help the congealed mass cope with his massive butt hurt. Although, it's shrinking properties may leave nothing behind, since we are, in fact, dealing with a massive hemorrhoid.


----------



## SittingElf

On topic.....

There is a product being sold that is used for clotting a wound quickly in a trauma situation. DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT.

"Quick Clot" has been found to burn organs underlying the wound, and then the product has to be surgically removed from the wound through very difficult processes. The Military has removed this product from its trauma resources due to their experiences with the product. It would be very dangerous to use in a SHTF situation where professional surgical care was not available after its use.

Amazon sells the product, but as I have said, avoid it and use alternatives. It is NOT safe to use.


----------



## Will2

oldditchdoctor said:


> Pathetic. Just stop responding. Or, leave, either is fine.


Heres a better idea why don't you contribute to the thread topic instead of adding nothing to the actual thread topic.

Those of you who are possessed with obsessing about me should get a new hobby.

Here I'll help we can go back to the start of the thread and see if you can add something related to what this thread is for discussing.

Persecute yourselves, I don't value you enough to see it as anything but bad taste on your part.

You all spent over 10 pages nagging and whining. Do you honestly have nothing better to do than be stupid?
That was 10 pages of absolutely worthless nonsense to the topic. Clearly you guys have an alternate agenda that helping out people on the site. Why not contribute instead of tearing it down.

Why not try to help the guy instead of being jerks in derailing the thread.

-----------------


> As im new to prepping I ofc have alot of issues to attend. In last month I have addressed water storage and pruification and expanded the food supply from 2 week to 2-3 months and what I now feel is at the top of the list is medical emergencies. The only medical training I have is the basics from the army on how to stop bleading etc, and to be honest I dont remeber much of it. Where to I go from here, recomended reading materials, supplies etc?
> 
> Greatful for any advice


----------



## Kauboy

SittingElf said:


> On topic.....
> 
> There is a product being sold that is used for clotting a wound quickly in a trauma situation. DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT.
> 
> "Quick Clot" has been found to burn organs underlying the wound, and then the product has to be surgically removed from the wound through very difficult processes. The Military has removed this product from its trauma resources due to their experiences with the product. It would be very dangerous to use in a SHTF situation where professional surgical care was not available after its use.
> 
> Amazon sells the product, but as I have said, avoid it and use alternatives. It is NOT safe to use.


Are you referring to the powder form that is poured into the wound, or the sponge form that is used to pack the wound? Both, maybe?
I have Quick Clot sponges in my trauma bag, so I'd like to know for personal reasons.


----------



## SittingElf

Actually, the sponges are OK... it's the powder that should not be used. I should have clarified that in my earlier post. My bad.

The powder should really be taken off the market. My wife told me that they had serious problems in Afghanistan with the product when she was deployed there, and destroyed all the remaining stock.


----------



## oldditchdoctor

Will2 said:


> Heres a better idea why don't you contribute to the thread topic instead of adding nothing to the actual thread topic.
> 
> Those of you who are possessed with obsessing about me should get a new hobby.
> 
> Here I'll help we can go back to the start of the thread and see if you can add something related to what this thread is for discussing.
> 
> Persecute yourselves, I don't value you enough to see it as anything but bad taste on your part.
> 
> You all spent over 10 pages nagging and whining. Do you honestly have nothing better to do than be stupid?
> That was 10 pages of absolutely worthless nonsense to the topic. Clearly you guys have an alternate agenda that helping out people on the site. Why not contribute instead of tearing it down.
> 
> Why not try to help the guy instead of being jerks in derailing the thread.
> 
> -----------------


I offered to answer any and all question that you posed, as I am an instructor in Wilderness Medicine. I have 26+ years in related items, including various disciplines of rescue, EMS and Police. However, you have yet failed to pose a question, thusly I am beginning to believe that you have no real interest. 
So, please, feel free to pose questions, that those of us that have Degrees and Education in various medical and rescue disciplines might help to improve, and assist, you quest for knowledge. I do not claim to know everything, but I know people that do have the answers that I do not. I do not question their background, as the information that is provided is beyond reproach. 
For example, this week I spent 3 days with one of the foremost Canine Trainers in the US, and another from Germany. Yes, my employer sent me. I learned many thing regarding Canines and the outdoor/indoor procedures for search and other items that are of a classified nature. 
I bring many things to the table and will share information with anyone humble enough to ask. 
If you "already know the answers", great! If you are willing to propose purposeful questions I will answer appropriately. 
Simply ask, do not question my abilities, as I am quite sure that the patients that have been under my care(my career in EMS and Rescue began in 1993) will testify that I have given them respect, confident care, and a second chance at life. While some had injuries not compatible with life, the ones that were viable were worked and did not die in MY truck! Some, however, died at the hands of an MD after I had made them viable and consciously mentating, able to answer appropriately. 
So, fire away, I waiting.


----------



## Will2

oldditchdoctor said:


> I offered to answer any and all question that you posed, as I am an instructor in Wilderness Medicine. I have 26+ years in related items, including various disciplines of rescue, EMS and Police. However, you have yet failed to pose a question, thusly I am beginning to believe that you have no real interest.
> So, please, feel free to pose questions, that those of us that have Degrees and Education in various medical and rescue disciplines might help to improve, and assist, you quest for knowledge. I do not claim to know everything, but I know people that do have the answers that I do not. I do not question their background, as the information that is provided is beyond reproach.
> For example, this week I spent 3 days with one of the foremost Canine Trainers in the US, and another from Germany. Yes, my employer sent me. I learned many thing regarding Canines and the outdoor/indoor procedures for search and other items that are of a classified nature.
> I bring many things to the table and will share information with anyone humble enough to ask.
> If you "already know the answers", great! If you are willing to propose purposeful questions I will answer appropriately.
> Simply ask, do not question my abilities, as I am quite sure that the patients that have been under my care(my career in EMS and Rescue began in 1993) will testify that I have given them respect, confident care, and a second chance at life. While some had injuries not compatible with life, the ones that were viable were worked and did not die in MY truck! Some, however, died at the hands of an MD after I had made them viable and consciously mentating, able to answer appropriately.
> So, fire away, I waiting.


I don't care who you say you are. You are some random person on the internet, who you are means nothing to me, it is what you say that matters, and that is a whole lot of nothing to the topic that the opening poster started. Why the hell would I ask questions I do my own research, certification and coursework. You seem to lack a very basic clarity of the situation that this is a thread that had an opening post and a variety of comments until it turned into a troll fest. I'll judge who you are based upon what information you contribute not your life story which I didn't ask for in the first place.



Plumbum said:


> As im new to prepping I ofc have alot of issues to attend. In last month I have addressed water storage and pruification and expanded the food supply from 2 week to 2-3 months and what I now feel is at the top of the list is medical emergencies. The only medical training I have is the basics from the army on how to stop bleading etc, and to be honest I dont remeber much of it. Where to I go from here, recomended reading materials, supplies etc?
> 
> Greatful for any advice


----------



## BuckB

SittingElf said:


> Actually, the sponges are OK... it's the powder that should not be used. I should have clarified that in my earlier post. My bad.
> 
> The powder should really be taken off the market. My wife told me that they had serious problems in Afghanistan with the product when she was deployed there, and destroyed all the remaining stock.


Sitting Elf -

That is great info to have. I have quite a bit of QuickClot in both powder form and sponges. Thanks!

Also, my apologies for hacking on you in your humor post a few days ago. The last week has been a bit rough and I misread your post. Again my apologies.

===========================

The title of this thread is "Medicine for Dummys". When I read that title and saw Will's very active posting on it, I naturally assumed the point of the thread was to make suggestions on what kinds of medicines would best help Will.

So, let's get back to that topic shall we?


----------



## oldditchdoctor

SittingElf said:


> Actually, the sponges are OK... it's the powder that should not be used. I should have clarified that in my earlier post. My bad.
> 
> The powder should really be taken off the market. My wife told me that they had serious problems in Afghanistan with the product when she was deployed there, and destroyed all the remaining stock.


Second to that, the powder causes a pyrogenic issue, and sometimes pieces break off and cause thrombi in the heart, lungs or brain. This is called, "freaking up Fick"(didn't want the stars)! The Fick principle, in short, air goes in and out, blood goes round and round, either stops and nothing good comes of it. 
The sponges work well, as does the z style impregnated gauze. This is often used to fill a cavitation wound, or a body cavity. Usually using a gloved hand. This is easily practiced with a pot roast, your choice of items to make a large hole, and any gauze product. Use the cheap stuff for practice. If there is an open (sucking chest wound) there are a number of products that are made to seal and "burp" the wound. The Asherman Chest Seal is ok, it doesn't like wet areas as we usually find. North American Rescue has in IFAC Kit that contains a two pack of their seals(work better), and others are out there. If that fails, one other item is the use of Vasaline impregnated gauze wrappers, and duct tape is a fairly viable option. Also, duct tape and Saran Wrap will do ok. 
Call NAR in Greenville, SC and ask for Anthony Horton in sales, he is a wealth of knowledge as a tactical medic and PHTLS/TCCC Guru! I have known him for years and he's been on multiple tactical teams as a Medic.


----------



## Will2

BuckB said:


> Sitting Elf -
> 
> The title of this thread is "Medicine for Dummys". When I read that title and saw Will's very active posting on it, I naturally assumed the point of the thread was to make suggestions on what kinds of medicines would best help Will.
> 
> So, let's get back to that topic shall we?


Get something that grows braincells you need it if you came to that conclusion.

Yes you should get back on topic instead of being an insulting immature troll who couldn't be a respectable person if he tried. Just some immature donkey who needs to go around insulting people because he is so poorly developed behaviourally he thrives on getting a reaction.

You have no class all. Get a life.

If you are so lacking you don't understand your harassment is unwanted you now know. Stop insulting me, it is not nice and it is not appreciated. Your offensive and rude attacks are unwelcome and if they continue you will be escalating this situation and unless you are incredibly incredibly stupid I suggest you stop now. Not just this thread everywhere.

Grow up.

Really man, you make this place a place for grade school kids instead of preppers with your ongoing nonsensical sideswipes, totally pathetic.

Anyone without behavioural issues wouldn't have the need to yet again flame.

Dude stop flaming it makes you look like a loser.

-------------------


----------



## BuckB

Will2 said:


> Get something that grows braincells you need it if you came to that conclusion.
> 
> Yes you should get back on topic instead of being an insulting immature troll who couldn't be a respectable person if he tried. Just some immature donkey who needs to go around insulting people because he is so poorly developed behaviourally he thrives on getting a reaction.
> 
> You have no class all. Get a life.


Will -

I am a very open kind of guy. I do not like secrets. So I will repost and answer your PM here:



Will2 said:


> I'm kindly asking you not to make any comments about me whatsoever, your continued harassment will be met with charges if it continues.


I was not making comments about you or toward you. I simply mentioned the title of the thread made me think you or somebody else was soliciting advice on what type of medicines might allow you to live a more normal life. I was just trying to get the thread back on topic.

Your friend

Buck Bored


----------



## Kauboy

Is he still threatening people? Will, you are a sad sack of crap and will never be able to file charges against anyone. Get over yourself and stop with the page long posts about nothing.


----------



## SGG




----------



## SGG

Funny how ppl started posting great info pertaining to thread, yet the unholy gelatin, who repeatedly asked it to go back on topic, is the one that kept up with the unrelated posts, whining and crying that ppl are talking about him

We need a safe space subforum where Lil will can go cry about ppl responding to his public posts


----------



## SGG

SittingElf. ....do not take the bait. This is a prepper forum so truth be told, the less personal info you share the better.

You don't have to prove yourself to this blob


----------



## Real Old Man

Will2 said:


> Dude again stop communicating with me.
> 
> I asked him to communicate with me via Private messaging, and encouraged him to contribute to the topic of this thread to give people information on how they can better learn medicine.
> 
> Trolling and flaming me and derailing the topic is helping no real prepper on the forum.
> 
> Obviously since you are likely just a troll and not really interested in prepping why don't you just bugger off.
> 
> Why do you need to ruin the experience and make it harder for people to find information related to prepping?
> 
> You are a nuisance in doing this.
> 
> This is not a roast, it is a discussion forum. I don't care what you think, wasting our time is not going to help either of us, it is just going to make people less intelligent.
> 
> I wouldn't call on someone to post personally identifying information to the general public, and nothing short of verifiable information is going to be good enough to convince me. Some pictures and easily doctorable ones at that are not evidence or proof of anything for me if I can't verify them.
> 
> It is really unfortunate such disrespectful people are being shown in uniform and with an american flag none the less.


First off Cretin no one is defaming you. Calling the validity of your posts into question is not defaming. Calling you a bold faced liar is probably a closer description. As far as someone's credentials - it is obvious from your posts (and what is in your profile) that much of what you post about is stuff that you glean from searching the web and not based on real world experiences. And you can say all you like about my not being a prepper, like several others have and at the end of the day it doesn't mean two good squirts pig crap. As was suggested to you several times you need to man up and stop acting like a whinny little girl. If you're wrong admit it. We all make mistakes.

As for trolling and highjacking a thread, who was it that came up with the self medicating post about using electricalstimulation of the brain. One guess.


----------



## Prepared One

BuckB said:


> Sitting Elf -
> 
> That is great info to have. I have quite a bit of QuickClot in both powder form and sponges. Thanks!
> 
> Also, my apologies for hacking on you in your humor post a few days ago. The last week has been a bit rough and I misread your post. Again my apologies.
> 
> ===========================
> 
> The title of this thread is "Medicine for Dummys". When I read that title and saw Will's very active posting on it, I naturally assumed the point of the thread was to make suggestions on what kinds of medicines would best help Will.
> 
> So, let's get back to that topic shall we?


I am not sure modern medicine is advanced enough to help Will with his loose marbles. Perhaps in the next 100 years or so, after exhaustive research and human trials there will finally be a remedy for for those voices in his head. Perhaps not.


----------



## hawgrider




----------



## Will2

BuckB said:


> Will -
> I was not making comments about you or toward you. I simply mentioned the title of the thread made me think you or somebody else was soliciting advice on what type of medicines might allow you to live a more normal life. I was just trying to get the thread back on topic.
> 
> Your friend
> 
> Buck Bored


Stop communicating with me or about me.

Your insults and other offensive and rude behaviour is unwelcome. '

You claim to not see how your comments are offensive as such I am again informing you not to direct communication to me or to communicate in public about me.


----------



## Will2

Kauboy said:


> Is he still threatening people? Will, you are a sad sack of crap and will never be able to file charges against anyone. Get over yourself and stop with the page long posts about nothing.


Stop communicating with me or about me.

Your insults and other offensive and rude behaviour is unwelcome.

This was my only post before you all started flaming.



> Here are some other US forces Handbooks, this has me curious if there are other militaries medical handbooks out there too, such as British, French, Russian, etc..
> Not sure if these are published annually or not
> 
> https://fas.org/irp/doddir/milmed/sfhandbook.pdf
> http://www.nh-tems.com/documents/Man...l_Handbook.pdf
> again
> http://www.patriotresistance.com/Ran...ok_2007_1_.pdf
> Stealth Survival : Free Downloads - US Army Special Forces Medical Handbook
> Military Medical Education and Training Textbooks
> 
> There is also medical tasks on this page
> us joint services manuals
> 
> I'm sure there are tons and tons of others.
> 
> No shortage of information. Only a shortage on learning.
> 
> Now bear in mind field expedient medicine, and first aid, combat treatment etc.. IS not what most people would think "medicine is"
> 
> combat medics, paramedics, firs aid responders and trauma personnel are in essence there to categorize and exercise preventative measures they do not practice long term recovery medicine, or treatment for non-traumatic, non-life threatening issues normally.
> 
> Medical practice and first responder treatment will likely require a different set of skills.
> 
> Personally I've learned the most on medicine from studying first nations and premodern medicine, mostly herbal, however I am not a naturopath, and not and expert by any means. I know some plants and I know some fungi, not much else.
> 
> In general if SHTF goes down, then low production medicines will disappear and less effective, or treatments with more side effects that can be naturally sourced will be called on.
> 
> I think more people will rely on not highly chemistry laden medical treatments closer to pioneer medicine, or indigenous folk medicine.
> 
> People with competent levels of chemistry will be very useful, but without processing equipment won't be able to do much.
> 
> In general my completely non-authoritative opinion is that you should look at pioneer medicine and folk medicine, while cross analyzing it, striking off the list known "fake treatments" and supplanting that with the most available natural remedies.
> 
> I would start by research medical applications of every plant you know by name.
> 
> The military particularly related to special forces provide some of the more current up to date medical practice reports, not all the common treatments are standardized, however most of the advanced treatments are not going to be within reach of people without vast resources. For example there are some effect advanced treatments that if not done correctly would likely kill someone who might live otherwise, but to be realistic, most people here will not be able to save a serious trauma victim and people will have a very short time to get people to advanced care.
> 
> Blood stops such as tourniquets will result in limb loss if not done effectively, so will not be used unless the person will die without it, not simply because it is a standard because care is available in time.
> Most treatment would be for debilitating conditions that are not fatal but chronic and over the long term debilitating, such as worms, fungal infections, and parasites.
> 
> Knowing things like cedar might be useful.
> 
> Meanwhile any poisonings are likely to be treated with charcoal and a purgative , which is often what emergency rooms will do. both of which can be effective. However having a large feather may not be in everyone purgative kit, it is historically effective.
> 
> None the less here are lots of things that are not used any more because they are not effective with more technical options. None the less for most of us, any treatment will not be curative treatment but rather it will be a stopgap either it will remove the attack enough to allow someone to survive, or it won't be effective and they will die.
> 
> Sadly most of the medicines that would allow effective treatment are scheduled substances that we do not have availability to legally. Thus older treatments that are less safe must be learned and used.
> 
> I don't have any good single resource on first nations medicine, I encountered it over a bunch of years in piecemeal mostly while learning about individual plants. Here some some links though
> 
> http://www.fnha.ca/documents/gwvi_tfm_presentation.pdf
> http://www.nativewomenscentre.com/fi...gs_Booklet.pdf
> http://www.sixnationsfarmersmarket.c..._medicines.php
> 
> Each native group has a slightly different basket but some common medicine wheel ideas that are ancient I suggest you research whatever tribe is local to your area or any areas you indend to go to. Bear in mind that you should look for what tribe was local prior to 1600, ideally prior to 1400 also, as there was a lot of migration between 1500 and 1900.
> 
> A search of major invasive species by state will give you a secondary list of plants to research for their origin of location or migration usages as plants that have invaded from places such as Asia may have traditional Asian medicine usages. Note that western, Asian, and native medicines all are different traditional schools so you should research the fundamentals of all these medicines to understand how they are suppose to be used, it isn't just chemical but also physiological.
> 
> Surprisingly ceremonies such as the Ayuhuasca do have real medical benefits, that most people don't even think of such as de-calcification of the pineal gland, while other aspects may have deworming aspects. Common ailments of yesteryear are often woven into some of these ceremonies. Tobacco sweet grass ect is an anti insecticide also. Many of these medicines now have known effects. The body itself is a curing agent, things such as fasting reset the immune system, there are lots of little aspects of tribal medicines that arn't common practices of traditional medicine but an effective regime of treatments can actually give much better odds of recovery than without what otherwise just looks like witchdoctor scammery. It really isn't it does do things to the body and mind that allow synergistic healing.


----------



## Will2

SGG said:


>


Here is a better idea put me on ignore and don't communicate with or about me.


----------



## SGG

Your senseless ramblings are offensive


----------



## Will2

Real Old Man said:


> First off Cretin no one is defaming you. Calling the validity of your posts into question is not defaming. Calling you a bold faced liar is probably a closer description. As far as someone's credentials - it is obvious from your posts (and what is in your profile) that much of what you post about is stuff that you glean from searching the web and not based on real world experiences. And you can say all you like about my not being a prepper, like several others have and at the end of the day it doesn't mean two good squirts pig crap. As was suggested to you several times you need to man up and stop acting like a whinny little girl. If you're wrong admit it. We all make mistakes.
> 
> As for trolling and highjacking a thread, who was it that came up with the self medicating post about using electrical stimulation of the brain. One guess.


You can't seem to take a hint, I don't value anything trolls say as such either you are simply trying to post negative things and relating them to me for public consumption it has nothing to do with any authentic opinion, you are trolling, go away. This is just more and more flaming. Again why not post on the topic instead wasting our time with launching attacks against me. I don't value what you say, so you are just launching defamatory attacks.

Dude just more flaming from you. Nothing you say is true just distorting the facts. Go away.

Stop communicating with or about me.


----------



## SGG

Will2 said:


> Here is a better idea put me on ignore and don't communicate with or about me.


Why don't you take your own advice


----------



## SGG

Will2 said:


> I don't value anything trolls say


Neither do we


----------



## Will2

SGG said:


> Why don't you take your own advice


Because you people are the ones who can't behave not me. I am able to communicate like an adult, you people resort to grade school antics to vent your loss of power over others. Clearly we should see who is ok to talk at the big table and who should have a time out. It is a sick perverted game for you people. You all have issues and if you don't see it, that is really unfortunate and I can only hope you gain enough sanity to realize your communications are unwanted and you should know when you should stop harassing someone. Is that a nice heartfelt moment for you. Now please again stop wasting your life trolling me enjoy what time exists before all your wrongs get into the public and you pay for them, it may be a couple decades but eventually you will need to own up and take the punishment for what you are doing. Netstalking ain't a game, it is a crime.


----------



## SGG

Vent over loss of power over others?

You are the one who is clearly upset that you do not have the power over others that you think you have.

But you did offer one good piece of advice, and now you are on my ignore list. So f*** off


----------



## Will2

SGG said:


> Vent over loss of power over others?
> 
> You are the one who is clearly upset that you do not have the power over others that you think you have.
> 
> But you did offer one good piece of advice, and now you are on my ignore list. So f*** off


Oh I think 10 pages of persistent trolling and flaming is an annoyance and jumping into every thread I post and derailing it gets a little old after a while.

None the less all you all are doing is distorting information and trolling. Get a life already.

Thanks for placing me on your ignore list. I am guessing you wont get this, and that is great news. Bye please don't unignore me ever.


----------



## Arklatex

Will2 said:


> Because you people are the ones who can't behave not me. I am able to communicate like an adult, you people resort to grade school antics to vent your loss of power over others. Clearly we should see who is ok to talk at the big table and who should have a time out. It is a sick perverted game for you people. You all have issues and if you don't see it, that is really unfortunate and I can only hope you gain enough sanity to realize your communications are unwanted and you should know when you should stop harassing someone. Is that a nice heartfelt moment for you. Now please again stop wasting your life trolling me enjoy what time exists before all your wrongs get into the public and you pay for them, it may be a couple decades but eventually you will need to own up and take the punishment for what you are doing. Netstalking ain't a game, it is a crime.


What do you mean "you people" are you some kind of elitist that looks down on normal folks? I would also recommend that you take a trip down to the sawmill to get those nasty, stinking logs cut off of your head. Then you should shave that fuzz off your face. Your romantic prospects would probably improve if you did. Then maybe you wouldn't be so uptight. Don't forget to get some smell good while you're at it.


----------



## Will2

you people = trolls

Trolls arn't normal people. Please learn and grow.



> you take a trip down to the sawmill to get those nasty, stinking logs cut off of your head. Then you should shave that fuzz off your face.


I got a better idea, you decide how to dress and groom yourself and I will do the same for me. Sorry I don't take advice on grooming from someone with a tail.



> Your romantic prospects would probably improve if you did. Then maybe you wouldn't be so uptight. Don't forget to get some smell good while you're at it.


Dating advice from a troll. In a totally random thread. How unexpected.

Here is my advice for you. Don't communicate with me or about me, and put me on ignore.

I don't need to take personal dating grooming tips from some stranger in a random thread on the internet. If you don't think that is weird then you got raised on some other planet.

Again Don't communicate with me or about me, and put me on ignore.

You can tell all your troll people the same thing.

It is also a potential issue to monopolization



> "*The access restrictions did not prove to reduce risk to health and safety *or to improve access to marihuana - the purported objectives of the regulation," Justice Michael Phelan wrote.


----------



## Real Old Man

Will2 said:


> You can't seem to take a hint, I don't value anything trolls say as such either you are simply trying to post negative things and relating them to me for public consumption it has nothing to do with any authentic opinion, you are trolling, go away. This is just more and more flaming. Again why not post on the topic instead wasting our time with launching attacks against me. I don't value what you say, so you are just launching defamatory attacks.
> 
> Dude just more flaming from you. Nothing you say is true just distorting the facts. Go away.
> 
> Stop communicating with or about me.


Just like Adolph Hitler and Joseph Goebbels - keep telling the same lies over and over and maybe after a few weeks folks will actually start to believe you crap. for the record elf contradicted one of your posts regarding what US Army Medics (something you have little knowledge of except what you can glean from the internet) do with regards to the practice of medicine. Your very first work in your responding post "Liar" . And that is all you have done with regards to anyone who dares to contradict anything you post. Actually you might want to take A's suggestion and spruce your looks up. It is pretty revolting. Even the patients at Central Stated take better care of their appearance than you seem to


----------



## Kauboy

Will2 said:


> Stop communicating with me or about me.


No. Idiocy must be squashed.


Will2 said:


> This was my only post before you all started flaming.


You are incorrect.

For the official record, I submit:
1. You made an assumption based on a web search.
2. You were corrected by someone with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE.
3. I commented to the corrector, implying that their correction to your false assumption would illicit a reaction.
4. I was proven right, and you proceeded to call this person, WITH REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE FAR BEYOND YOUR OWN, a "Liar". You chose citations over actual reality as your foundation for your position.
*(THAT, SIR, WAS THE FIRST DIRECT PERSONAL ATTACK, AND THE FIRST FLAME OF THIS THREAD!)*
*(He said you were wrong, you called him a "Liar". Yes, there is a huge difference.)*
5. I confirmed that I was right about your uncontrollable desire to respond, and reinforced that you were wrong.
*(At no time were any of the comments about you "flaming". They were statements of truth based on fact, or about your personality based on past ACTUAL experience interacting with you.)*
6. You made an accusation against my character(no standards), and claimed that I was engaging in "mind games". You called us "incapable people" and stated that we are "unable to discern very simple facts".
*(This was your SECOND personal attack, against a different member.)
(YOU STARTED THIS!)*
7. I called in to question your ability to actually comprehend what you claim to have knowledge about, and then *I was the first to tell you not to respond to me*.
8. Elf then continued to prove he was right, and you were wrong, via your own method of literature citation. He even avoided insulting you in ANY WAY while doing so. True class right there.
9. You then made the claim that earned you EVERY DAMN SHRED of ridicule and scorn that you deserve. You stated, "I highly doubt your authenticity...". You claimed he was trying to "con people", and also copied my first request to demand that we stop "communicating" with you.

YOU flamed first. Not us.
I first demanded that you stop responding. Not you.
YOU are the asshole who can't accept reality, or defeat.

I say again, SHUT THE HELL UP!


----------



## Will2

Real Old Man said:


> Just like Adolph Hitler and Joseph Goebbels - keep telling the same lies over and over and maybe after a few weeks folks will actually start to believe you crap. for the record elf contradicted one of your posts regarding what US Army Medics (something you have little knowledge of except what you can glean from the internet) do with regards to the practice of medicine. Your very first work in your responding post "Liar" . And that is all you have done with regards to anyone who dares to contradict anything you post. Actually you might want to take A's suggestion and spruce your looks up. It is pretty revolting. Even the patients at Central Stated take better care of their appearance than you seem to


Although I definately do not invite you to engage me in discourse, or to comment on myself. I do invite you to provide more accurate information, and to outline how any of my statements regarding Combat Medics specifically 91W in any way information I presented was not correct. I think you will find that the information I posted up was 100% correct, and that there were no factual errors at all. So no just stop communicating with me all ready, it is obvious you are launchign attacks not trying to add to the discussion.


----------



## Denton

You kids behave; Daddy's got a headache.


----------

