# A car is a faraday cage?



## Pengyou (Nov 28, 2012)

I have been chewing on something and need to get some expert input. I was doing some research on vehicles and emp. One page said that a strong enough EMP would disable a newer vehicle because of the electronics that control the engine. I read on another page of a test that was done about 5 years ago that showed only a couple out of a dozen or more cars were disabled. Some stalled but they could be started right up again. Some had electronics in the car that were damaged but were still functional as a car. There was a statement in Wikipedia that said that a car is a kind of Faraday cage....wtf?? :ambivalence:


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Without real world events the effects of an EMP are difficult to predict. First you have variables such as the strength and wavelengths involved, then you have devices that haven't been tested for resistance. The result is you have differing opinions among experts leaving the rest of us clueless.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Yes, a car can act as a farraday cage for SOME electrical energy. It will protect you from lightning, for instance. It is my understanding that to protect against EMP pulse, there can be no cracks in the cage, so the hood openings disqualify a car.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I wonder about that myself, after all, a vehicle is a large metal housing around all that electronics. Years ago, people had "static straps" around their rear axle that dug on the road. I think they were for better radio reception? or to keep spark plug noise from the radio? not sure. Anyway, I wonder if having a grounding strap on the vehicle would aid against problems with emp?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Moonshinedave said:


> I wonder about that myself, after all, a vehicle is a large metal housing around all that electronics. Years ago, people had "static straps" around their rear axle that dug on the road. I think they were for better radio reception? or to keep spark plug noise from the radio? not sure. Anyway, I wonder if having a grounding strap on the vehicle would aid against problems with emp?


The static straps were to prevent static shock from the seat covers.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

This is about the best one I've read.
EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Intensity (power) & frequency (wavelength) of EMPs will be unknown. As mentioned, that wavelength of the EMP will be critical in what would be effected. With that said, a solar EMP could affect small vehicles but not large ones or visa versa.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I assume you are talking about being protected from the effects of an HEMP (EMP). While a car is a Faraday cage for lightning, (the way I understand it) the principal of a Faraday cage is a "skin affect" I doubt that a car would really be effective for an HEMP. 

This quote is from the website above.
"Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below 25 kV/m. 
Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field levels may experience 
serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver intervention to correct. We further 
expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the road will manifest some nuisance response 
at these higher field levels. The serious malfunctions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; 
the nuisance malfunctions could exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP 
exposure could be triggered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, 
the consequent loss of life, and multiple injuries."


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Army's training videos I had to endure would indicate not. They were made in the 60's, though, and we might have a better understanding, now.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

If you are talking about protecting electronics that are inside the passenger compartment, the answer is "no". Generally speaking, if your cell phone gets coverage then it the area is not protected from EMP. If the question is the electronics under the hood, the answer is "maybe", that is that some but maybe not all of the electronics will be knocked out, dependent on the location of the electronics, and they strength of the pulse.


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## SecretPrepper (Mar 25, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> The static straps were to prevent static shock from the seat covers.


I work in the oil and gas industry. They require the ground straps on our trucks. the theory is that if there is a leak you don't know about you don't ignite it with a spark from static. My truck does still shock me some times. So how well does that strap realy work?


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A car body has several things against it for being and effective shield against an E1 EMP. First it is painted - there should be bare metal for an effective E1 shield. Next it is steel - steel is too poor a conductor to be effective as an E1 shield. These first two are tied together because the more electrical resistance there is the more voltage there is across the object. (voltage drop) The third strike is that the metal is not enclosed - there are gaps. A good E1 shield should have no gaps but can "get away with" gaps less than 0.1mm in size (all directions). As if that wasn't enough to convince you the negative battery terminal is connected to the frame meaning that the entire car is one huge antenna that will collect the EMP and allow it to freely flow through the entire electrical system. With a pulse of 30,000 volts from an E1 pulse - the pulse is negative (it is from gamma radiation exciting electrons) your car suddenly has a 12V DC positive and more than -30000 V DC negative for and over voltage of 30000 V DC. Semiconductors are rated for 200 volts peak reverse voltage and you are wondering if they will withstand 30000 V peak reverse voltage?

The answer is no. A steel car does not make an effective E1 shield. Happily the only thing that produces the E1 pulse is a gamma ray burst - either from a nuclear bomb or an exploding super star (not like Kim Kardashen but a sun at least 100 times the size of our sun) If we get hit with a super solar gamma ray burst it won't matter. It is a planet killer. So your disintegrated corpse isn't going to care that the car doesn't run.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

The emp is a giant magnetic field. The only thing that will "stop" a magnetic field is another magnetic field of opposing polarity.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Anthonyx said:


> The emp is a giant magnetic field. The only thing that will "stop" a magnetic field is another magnetic field of opposing polarity.


Please link to your source of information, I've never heard of this idea before in all my reading. Also EMP stands for *Electro* Magnetic Pulse

Have you ever put 2 magnets together, it's the opposite poles that attract.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

paraquack said:


> Please link to your source of information, I've never heard of this idea before in all my reading. Also EMP stands for *Electro* Magnetic Pulse
> 
> Have you ever put 2 magnets together, it's the opposite poles that attract.


Hey chief.

"another magnetic field of opposing polarity"

means opposed fields not opposed poles.

Your ignore finger broken?

Now here's what you do - take those two magnets and put the similar poles together.
Voila - opposing magnetic fields.

Guess you missed that in your readings.


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## jdbushcraft (Mar 26, 2015)

Anthonyx said:


> Hey chief.
> 
> "another magnetic field of opposing polarity"
> 
> ...


Since stopping an EMP in such a way is at best impractical, and at worst only theoretically possible, why bring it up?


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The EMP E1 pulse is caused by displaced electrons that rotate around the geomagnetic field lines. Since the cause is local and not distant the high energy electrical pulse couldn't be stopped by magnetism. It is an electro-magnetically induced voltage that is produced locally but the event covers an extremely large area. The further it is above us the higher the power and the wider the area is covered. Can you use magnetism to prevent a spark plug from firing? Can you stop the spark once it is jumping to the ground? If you were to eliminate the geomagnetic field then you could limit the power of the EMP - but you would expose the world to radiation from the sun and deep space at the same time.

Concentrate of shielding from the EMP because you can't prevent it.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

The magnetic pulse itself is harmless. The damage is done by electrical current generated in conductors in the magnetic field.
The emp itself has no current.
There is little emp directly under the shot because the magnetic field of the earth deflects it.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

A vehicle is not a faraday cage simply because of the glass.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

A car is not a complete faraday cage. They do not completely encircle you in metal. There are large areas of glass, plastic, etc. within their structures. Cars can/will effectively distribute focused electrical energy like a lightening bolt around its occupants, but, they will not protect your car's electrical systems (or your electronic devices) from a strong EMP.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

In August of 1945 when the Enola Gay dropped the bomb EMP wasn't even an afterthought! Given the technology of the 40's they were still using point distributors and vacuum tube electrons. The plane and crew returned safely to home base with no damage to the plane. Modern computer operated cars have no chance.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

A motor vehicle is most certainly NOT a Farraday cage. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Typical Wikipedia vomitous lies.

There is a laundry list of reasons why motor vehicles are not Farraday cages. Windows. Open bottoms. Unsealed seams. Plastic body panels, bumpers, etc. Open grill. Convertible tops. Sun roofs. That's a pretty good start.


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## jdbushcraft (Mar 26, 2015)

A car most certainly can act as a Faraday cage. Hit it with lightning or high voltage and occupants in the car are protected. The charge is carried around, not through the passenger compartment. Is it effective against rf? But that isn't a requirement. You have to build a cage based on what you are shielding against. You can make a fc from chicken wire. Lots of holes there.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

So cover all the open areas like windows with chicken wire & make sure its connected to other metal & the vehicle MIGHT work as a faraday cage.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Oddcaliber said:


> In August of 1945 when the Enola Gay dropped the bomb EMP wasn't even an afterthought! Given the technology of the 40's they were still using point distributors and vacuum tube electrons. The plane and crew returned safely to home base with no damage to the plane. Modern computer operated cars have no chance.


During one of the Nevada test series they parked a fleet of cars around a shot tower at various ranges. After the shot only those cars severely damaged by blast effect wouldn't start - the rest drove away.

That scene from Broken Arrow where an underground nuke knocks out a helicopter is pure bs. EMP only occurs in high altitude dets.

You may remember the old Nike Ajax-Hercules-Zeus missile defense system. They scrapped it because the missiles would have done tremendous EMP damage. The dummy Russians still rely on nuke interceptors but they would do more damage than the nukes they intercept.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

jdbushcraft said:


> A car most certainly can act as a Faraday cage. Hit it with lightning or high voltage and occupants in the car are protected. The charge is carried around, not through the passenger compartment. Is it effective against rf? But that isn't a requirement. You have to build a cage based on what you are shielding against. You can make a fc from chicken wire. Lots of holes there.


That's a great idea. You go ahead and build yourself a nice big Farraday cage out of chicken wire, and fill it with all of your important electronic components. I'll go buy a couple of aluminum garbage cans, line the insides with cardboard, stash all of my important electronics in the garbage cans, put the lids on good and tight, seal the seam with metal duct tape, and we'll see who has a bunch of fried electronics and who doesn't. :68:


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## jdbushcraft (Mar 26, 2015)

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> That's a great idea. You go ahead and build yourself a nice big Farraday cage out of chicken wire, and fill it with all of your important electronic components. I'll go buy a couple of aluminum garbage cans, line the insides with cardboard, stash all of my important electronics in the garbage cans, put the lids on good and tight, seal the seam with metal duct tape, and we'll see who has a bunch of fried electronics and who doesn't. :68:


If you want to be a smart ass, feel free. Yes, your can may protect in that capacity. Aside from that, you don't know what you are talking about, or you sure aren't demonstrating it. A Faraday cage is not just something to protect electronics from emp. An airplane is a Faraday cage every time it is hit by lightning. A car acts as one when a power line is laying across the hood and the passengers are not injured. It is all about what and at what frequency you are shielding from.
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/what-is-a-faraday-cage_082014


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Has anybody here ever built a successful Faraday Cage? Me neither, but me and some buddies built a highly successful Harrigan Cage. 

My buddies, Slick and Big C and I were about 10 or 11 and we had nothing to do one summer. A new family, the Harrigan's had just moved in and their son was about our age and a real dipshit. Tim or Jim, I forget his name but he was a real geek ass know it all and he really got on our nerves. 

So we salvaged some materials from around the neighborhood, built a nice little cage in the woods, lured Timmy or Jimmy -or whatever the hell his name was-into the woods to check out our "Fort" and locked his smart ass in the cage. Today, it would be called "bullying" or kidnapping or some such nonsense. But back in the summer of '72 it was called a Harrigan Cage and it worked like a damn charm.

I think the statute of limitations is up but if not, Denton, please delete this.

Thanks


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## jdbushcraft (Mar 26, 2015)

We built several in high school.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Anthonyx said:


> During one of the Nevada test series they parked a fleet of cars around a shot tower at various ranges. After the shot only those cars severely damaged by blast effect wouldn't start - the rest drove away.
> 
> That scene from Broken Arrow where an underground nuke knocks out a helicopter is pure bs. EMP only occurs in high altitude dets.
> 
> You may remember the old Nike Ajax-Hercules-Zeus missile defense system. They scrapped it because the missiles would have done tremendous EMP damage. The dummy Russians still rely on nuke interceptors but they would do more damage than the nukes they intercept.


What year did this happen? I think it might be before computer technology took over the car industry, since the last US above ground nuclear test was in 1962.
As far as the movie version EMP, I agree with you about the military installation being hit by the EMP is *most likely* BS. But considering the proximity to the underground blast, I wouldn't be so sure. Please give me a link to your data.
This is my second request for data and source.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

The second time? Why that's just awful!!!!!

"The mechanism for a 400 km (high-altitude burst EMP: gamma rays hit the atmosphere between 20-40 km altitude, ejecting electrons which are then deflected sideways by the Earth's magnetic field."
Nuclear Environmental Survivability. USArmy report AD-A278230

I hope you get your ignore finger repaired soon.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Has anybody here ever built a successful Faraday Cage?


I've built a few. I tested them with a tesla coil a few EE students had built. Unfortunately, I've never had access to an EMP generator.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The original "Faraday cage" was a device to protect folks from lightening strikes. All high rise buildings incorporate the concept to protect the occupants from lightening strikes.

It works by transferring the electrical charge along the frame of the building to the ground. The E1 pulse is a much higher amplitude (voltage) and a much higher frequency. A common Faraday Cage can have holes as large as 10 or 20 feet but to stop the E1 pulse any gap more than a 0.1mm hole will allow the pulse through. Even a slot shaped hole that is 0.05mm wide but an inch long becomes an antenna that can amplify the pulse as it permits it to enter the enclosure. The conductivity of the material used can allow the cage to absorb some of the pulse instead of directing it around the enclosure. The four best conductors are, Silver, Copper, Gold, and Aluminum. Steel is further on down the list and has enough resistance that the pulse is absorbed into the enclosure before it can pass around it. This will cause a capacitance reaction where there are identical charges of opposite polarity on the inside and outside of the enclosure. This is no way to protect your sensitive electronics. It will attenuate the pulse to some degree but it is not good protection.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

PaulS said:


> The original "Faraday cage" was a device to protect folks from lightening strikes. All high rise buildings incorporate the concept to protect the occupants from lightening strikes.
> 
> It works by transferring the electrical charge along the frame of the building to the ground. The E1 pulse is a much higher amplitude (voltage) and a much higher frequency. A common Faraday Cage can have holes as large as 10 or 20 feet but to stop the E1 pulse any gap more than a 0.1mm hole will allow the pulse through. Even a slot shaped hole that is 0.05mm wide but an inch long becomes an antenna that can amplify the pulse as it permits it to enter the enclosure. The conductivity of the material used can allow the cage to absorb some of the pulse instead of directing it around the enclosure. The four best conductors are, Silver, Copper, Gold, and Aluminum. Steel is further on down the list and has enough resistance that the pulse is absorbed into the enclosure before it can pass around it. This will cause a capacitance reaction where there are identical charges of opposite polarity on the inside and outside of the enclosure. This is no way to protect your sensitive electronics. It will attenuate the pulse to some degree but it is not good protection.


Correct


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

A metal container completely sealed and insulated with conductors inside could in fact become a giant capacitor when exposed to emp.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Anthonyx said:


> The magnetic pulse itself is harmless. The damage is done by electrical current generated in conductors in the magnetic field.
> The emp itself has no current.
> There is little emp directly under the shot because the magnetic field of the earth deflects it.


What about people with heart pacemakers, implanted auto-defibrillators, and insulin pumps? 
Do you think they would be affected?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

paraquack said:


> What about people with heart pacemakers, implanted auto-defibrillators, and insulin pumps?
> Do you think they would be affected?


If any of those devices had integrated circuits, then it is my understanding that HEMP would affect them. A coronal mass ejection striking the earth's magnetic field would not; they are too small (unless they happened to be plugged into a wall outlet or something when the CME occurred).


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

That's what I figured.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Anthonyx said:


> During one of the Nevada test series they parked a fleet of cars around a shot tower at various ranges. After the shot only those cars severely damaged by blast effect wouldn't start - the rest drove away.
> 
> That scene from Broken Arrow where an underground nuke knocks out a helicopter is pure bs. EMP only occurs in high altitude dets.
> 
> You may remember the old Nike Ajax-Hercules-Zeus missile defense system. They scrapped it because the missiles would have done tremendous EMP damage. The dummy Russians still rely on nuke interceptors but they would do more damage than the nukes they intercept.


Since you won't respond to my PM, I guess I'll have to say it here. I read your "Nuclear Environmental Survivability. USArmy report AD-A278230" and I also did a search through it for key words mentioned in your post. Sorry, nothing in there that anywhere remotely covers your post. Perhaps you quoted the wrong source. Could it have been this one? 
EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com
"There have been a number of isolated tests of vehicles in EMP simulators over the years. The manufacturers of the cars wouldn't even say which cars had been tested, and the cars were usually transported to the EMP simulators in such a way that the make and model was hidden from view. So we not only don't know the result, we don't even know which cars were tested. One Ford Taurus was tested on video by the Discovery Channel, but that was only one particular vehicle; and questions have been raised about the video editing of that segment. (Having spent most of my career working for television stations and related industries, I have learned to be skeptical of television reports, no matter what the source.) Authoritative reports, however, indicate that some cars do behave like that vehicle.

The potential EMP vulnerability of automobiles derives from the use of built-in electronics that support multiple automotive functions. Electronic components were first introduced into automobiles in the late 1960s. As time passed and electronics technologies evolved, electronic applications in automobiles proliferated. Modern automobiles have as many as 100 microprocessors that control virtually all functions. While electronic applications have proliferated within automobiles, so too have application standards and electromagnetic interference and electromagnetic compatibility (EMI/EMC) practices. Thus, while it might be expected that increased EMP vulnerability would accompany the proliferated electronics applications, this trend, at least in part, is mitigated by the increased application of EMI/EMC practices.

We tested a sample of 37 cars in an EMP simulation laboratory, with automobile vintages ranging from *1986 through 2002.* Automobiles of these vintages include extensive electronics and represent a significant fraction of automobiles on the road today. The testing was conducted by exposing running and nonrunning automobiles to sequentially increasing EMP field intensities. If anomalous response (either temporary or permanent) was observed, the testing of that particular automobile was stopped. If no anomalous response was observed, the testing was continued up to the field intensity limits of the simulation capability (approximately 50 kV/m).

Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.

Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below 25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver intervention to correct. We further expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the road will manifest some nuisance response at these higher field levels. The serious malfunctions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; the nuisance malfunctions could exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP exposure could be triggered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, the consequent loss of life, and multiple injuries.

While this 13 year old test seems to bear out your claim, I think the cars today would suffer a lot more since computer are using more and more integrated circuits which are more susceptible that the one back in 2002 and before. But I wouldn't want to depend on it.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

paraquack said:


> What about people with heart pacemakers, implanted auto-defibrillators, and insulin pumps?
> Do you think they would be affected?


It would depend on the type of construction. The larger the conductor the larger the induced current - tiny conductors have tiny induced current.

The bad stuff will occur when a killer pulse comes blasting through the grid, but devices not connected to the grid don't have that problem.

I believe the monster magnetic fields generated by power lines when that gargantuan induced current from the emp blasts through them will be more dangerous than the pulse itself.

I believe that when cars stall in a magnetic field rather than fry it is because the field scrambles the electron flow in its circuits momentarily.

It's hard to say but the rule is the smaller the conductor, the less the "thump" it gets. Cheap designs might fry - better designs might simply get a brief scramble then resume operation.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

paraquack said:


> Since you won't respond to my PM, I guess I'll have to say it here. I read your "Nuclear Environmental Survivability. USArmy report AD-A278230" and I also did a search through it for key words mentioned in your post. Sorry, nothing in there that anywhere remotely covers your post. Perhaps you quoted the wrong source. Could it have been this one?
> EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com
> "There have been a number of isolated tests of vehicles in EMP simulators over the years. The manufacturers of the cars wouldn't even say which cars had been tested, and the cars were usually transported to the EMP simulators in such a way that the make and model was hidden from view. So we not only don't know the result, we don't even know which cars were tested. One Ford Taurus was tested on video by the Discovery Channel, but that was only one particular vehicle; and questions have been raised about the video editing of that segment. (Having spent most of my career working for television stations and related industries, I have learned to be skeptical of television reports, no matter what the source.) Authoritative reports, however, indicate that some cars do behave like that vehicle.
> 
> ...


You never give it a rest do you?

You and your sneaky pal Shep combined don't have the stuff to rattle my cage.

Get out of my face REMF


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Anthonyx said:


> You never give it a rest do you?
> 
> You and your sneaky pal Shep combined don't have the stuff to rattle my cage.
> 
> Get out of my face REMF


I'm not out to rattle your cage! Sorry if that's what you get out of this. 
I'm just trying to prevent the dissemination of misleading info. It might 
just cost someone their life. I'm really sorry if you're so immodest that 
you think I'm just trying to rattle your cage.

I offered you an olive branch by PM but you didn't bother to respond, 
so what's a guy supposed to do?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I'm not out to rattle your cage! Sorry if that's what you get out of this.
> I'm just trying to prevent the dissemination of misleading info. It might
> just cost someone their life. I'm really sorry if you're so immodest that
> you think I'm just trying to rattle your cage.
> ...


He's not one to listen to reason, nor understand your interaction to be anything other than a personal attack.
Simple minds react in simple ways.

Best to just hit the ignore button, like he wants, and wait for him to leave or be banned. It's only a matter of time.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> He's not one to listen to reason, nor understand your interaction to be anything other than a personal attack.
> Simple minds react in simple ways.
> 
> Best to just hit the ignore button, like he wants, and wait for him to leave or be banned. It's only a matter of time.


You wouldn't have lasted a week in the bush REMF

but you'll run your mouth at those who did REMF

I save my insults for a man's face - but then again I'm a man.

You're a REMF


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Ummm, what's a remf?
I think I comprehend the Mf, and don't see the need, but, then again, I'm just a dumb ass.


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## jdbushcraft (Mar 26, 2015)

Rear echelon mother farmer


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Anthonyx said:


> You wouldn't have lasted a week in the bush REMF
> 
> but you'll run your mouth at those who did REMF
> 
> ...


Dang, you kiss your mama with that mouth? Ah to heck with it, your not worth the effort, besides if all you can do is hurl insults, you're in the wrong forum.

You got your wish, IGNORED


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Dadgum buncha muthashutchomoufs round hura.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm just here to eat popcorn and wait for the thread to be closed


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paraquack said:


> Dang, you kiss your mama with that mouth? Ah to heck with it, your not worth the effort, besides if all you can do is hurl insults, you're in the wrong forum.
> 
> You got your wish, IGNORED


I'll assume the post you quoted was his response toward me.
He wouldn't actually have the testicular fortitude to say anything to my face. He's an internet troll. They are cowards by nature, and fools at heart.
The acronym still puzzles me. Must be an inside joke that he thinks is clever. Jokes are only funny if others get the punchline, dummy.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

I walked into the NVA's turf and dared them to do anything about it, and came back.

I wouldn't have any problem with you, Shep.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'd kindly request that we all refrain from quoting from the troll. I'd like to keep his drivel concealed from sight as best I can.
At least until he gets banned.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

:rofl3:


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

He tells people not to quote me - then puts me in his sig.

:rofl3::rofl3::rofl3:


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I really wanted to look at his post, but I figured it would be more of the same.
I kind of wonder if he played in those baseball, soccer and football games 
where everyone gets a trophy? He seems to not understand that on the forum, 
all we have is our reputation. 

A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I really wanted to look at his post, but I figured it would be more of the same.


That's a safe bet.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Oh yeah you have concealing down to an art Shep.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Look at him, he keeps trying, just like a good little troll.

They rarely comprehend the definition of futility, and it makes it all the more amusing.

I'm feeling rather hospitable today.
I'm cleaning out my ignore list... but for one solitary name.
I'm sure that will make him feel extra special.

Now I can continue trying to decipher oddapple's posts again!


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Oh yeah Shep - when it comes to ignoring, concealing, and not quoting you're the go-to guy.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> Look at him, he keeps trying, just like a good little troll.
> 
> They rarely comprehend the definition of futility, and it makes it all the more amusing.
> 
> ...


God luck on your endeavors.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paraquack said:


> God luck on your endeavors.


Thanks, I've been studying my oddapplease. We'll see if it's paid off.

Haha, look at the little troll. Keep trying little buddy. One day someone might care about what you post enough to read it. It just won't be me.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Is he gone yet?

Whew, I'm scared of that guy. He fights North Vietnamese Regulars with his bare teeth. What chance do we have against him, with just our brains? Oh, wait...


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

When was talking about the "bush" I thought he was talking about the Australia back country. I didn't realize he was a fellow vet from Nam. Maybe?????


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

paraquack said:


> When was talking about the "bush" I thought he was talking about the Australia back country. I didn't realize he was a fellow vet from Nam. Maybe?????


He might be a vet, one that was injured where you can't see it. Anger is one of the symptoms.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

While it is a possibility, his attitude reminds of to many teenagers/20 somethings 
I've met. The "bush" term is something I don't get tho. Never claimed to be a vet
either, so...


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> Is he gone yet?
> 
> Whew, I'm scared of that guy. He fights North Vietnamese Regulars with his bare teeth. What chance do we have against him, with just our brains? Oh, wait...


As a matter of fact I fought them with an m60 machinegun.

What did you do?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Oh, look. He's back!
Must have been a rough night.
He only just now crawled out from under his bridge.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> He might be a vet, one that was injured where you can't see it. Anger is one of the symptoms.


True - my shirt covers it.

What did you do?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Ok Kauboy, I'm still holding faithful and have him on Ignore. Is he still at it. I don't know whether to be proud of his tenacity or ....


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paraquack said:


> Ok Kauboy, I'm still holding faithful and have him on Ignore. Is he still at it. I don't know whether to be proud of his tenacity or ....


From what I can tell, nobody is speaking to him, so it's likely he's been ignored by those who've visited this thread, but I still see him trying. He must enjoy talking to himself. Less conflict that way. At this point, there really isn't much to admire, even from an objective POV.

So, cars make lousy shields from EMP. I think this thread has run its course.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Anthonyx said:


> As a matter of fact I fought them with an m60 machinegun.
> 
> What did you do?


Who were ya with?


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Hq Third Marine Amphibious Force.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Anthonyx said:


> During one of the Nevada test series they parked a fleet of cars around a shot tower at various ranges. After the shot only those cars severely damaged by blast effect wouldn't start - the rest drove away.
> 
> That scene from Broken Arrow where an underground nuke knocks out a helicopter is pure bs. EMP only occurs in high altitude dets.
> 
> *You may remember the old Nike Ajax-Hercules-Zeus missile defense system. They scrapped it because the missiles would have done tremendous EMP damage.* The dummy Russians still rely on nuke interceptors but they would do more damage than the nukes they intercept.


Not to redirect, but why do you say that?

A Team, 35th USAAD, 5th USAAG, by the way.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> Not to redirect, but why do you say that?
> 
> A Team, 35th USAAD, 5th USAAG, by the way.


From what I understand the system is in mothball. "Nukes in Space" goes into some detail about it. A nuke interceptor hitting an incoming icbm would generate an emp that does more damage than the icbm would.

Once an emp knocked out the grid there would be no reason not to use them however. That would be my idea of why they didn't dismantle it.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

1st MarDiv, or 3rd?
I was there 69-70. Army.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> 1st MarDiv, or 3rd?
> I was there 69-70. Army.


It was the Hq for all of those including your unit. It was the size of a division and had its own infantry.
We coordinated the ops between the army, usmc, navy and air force components of 3 Maf.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Anthonyx said:


> From what I understand the system is in mothball. "Nukes in Space" goes into some detail about it. A nuke interceptor hitting an incoming icbm would generate an emp that does more damage than the icbm would.
> 
> Once an emp knocked out the grid there would be no reason not to use them however. That would be my idea of why they didn't dismantle it.


They were anti-aircraft. They were to vaporize incoming squadrons of Bears. I don't know about "Nukes in Space," but I do know about "Denton was There."

Yes, they were deactivated, but that was not why.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Nike Ajax was an aircraft interceptor.

Nike Hercules and Zeus were designed to intercept icbms - both would trigger an emp.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Anthonyx said:


> Nike Ajax was an aircraft interceptor.
> 
> Nike Hercules and Zeus were designed to intercept icbms - both would trigger an emp.


No, the Herc was not. But again, why would you listen to someone was was with A Team, 35th USAAD? Why would I know the Nike Herc's mission, or why it was decomissioned?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Give up Denton, It's hard for me not to see his post as I read yours.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

paraquack said:


> Give up Denton, It's hard for me not to see his post as I read yours.


Sorry.


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## Anthonyx (Mar 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> No, the Herc was not. But again, why would you listen to someone was was with A Team, 35th USAAD? Why would I know the Nike Herc's mission, or why it was decomissioned?


"As the 1960's unfolded, the NIKE HERCULES system equipment was being constantly improved to increase their effectiveness. Significant enhancements were made to the electronic countermeasures (ECM) capabilities of the NIKE HERCULES radars to counter advancements in the Soviet's capability to jam these radars and render them less capable or even totally ineffective. Equipment was developed which would hook up to the battery's electronic systems, giving the capability of simulating target acquisition, tracking and firing exercises and training electronically without the need for a live target. A major improvement was made in the mid-1960's to the acquisition and tracking radars and related systems which gave the Alaskan NIKE HERCULES batteries the capability to acquire, track and shoot down an incoming ICBM. "
ALASKA'S COLD WAR NUCLEAR SHIELD
By Bob Raichle
Bob Raichle served at Echo Battery in the Fairbanks, Alaska NIKE HERCULES defense from 1966 to 1968. AS IFC platoon leader, Executive Officer, and Battery Control Officer, Mr. Raichle was responsible for accomplishing the mission of Echo Battery and had the authority to launch the battery's NIKE HERCULES missiles against incoming Soviet bombers and ICBM's.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Anthonyx said:


> It was the Hq for all of those including your unit. It was the size of a division and had its own infantry.
> We coordinated the ops between the army, usmc, navy and air force components of 3 Maf.


Yeah, we were OPCON'd to the USMC, came under Command and Control of the 3rd MarDiv.
That's why I asked.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Anthonyx said:


> "As the 1960's unfolded, the NIKE HERCULES system equipment was being constantly improved to increase their effectiveness. Significant enhancements were made to the electronic countermeasures (ECM) capabilities of the NIKE HERCULES radars to counter advancements in the Soviet's capability to jam these radars and render them less capable or even totally ineffective. Equipment was developed which would hook up to the battery's electronic systems, giving the capability of simulating target acquisition, tracking and firing exercises and training electronically without the need for a live target. A major improvement was made in the mid-1960's to the acquisition and tracking radars and related systems which gave the Alaskan NIKE HERCULES batteries the capability to acquire, track and shoot down an incoming ICBM. "
> ALASKA'S COLD WAR NUCLEAR SHIELD
> By Bob Raichle
> Bob Raichle served at Echo Battery in the Fairbanks, Alaska NIKE HERCULES defense from 1966 to 1968. AS IFC platoon leader, Executive Officer, and Battery Control Officer, Mr. Raichle was responsible for accomplishing the mission of Echo Battery and had the authority to launch the battery's NIKE HERCULES missiles against incoming Soviet bombers and ICBM's.


And, I was A-Team, 86-88. Thanks. I'll run with my knowledge, thanks. I'm not trying to make a dime or a name. I was also at the site at the time of its closing.

Enjoy reading the internet. Some of us know things firsthand.


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