# Preparing for Change



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

My wife and I were talking about finances this week. Most pointedly our retirement. A few years ago I moved most of my IRA into a self directed plan, and used it to buy a neighboring property. I now have very little "cash" related assets in the IRA and after working a few years I did save up some 401k savings which is nominal. My wife's retirement is still largely invested in stocks, funds, and cash based assets. We are over extended in property, and under invested in cash assets - the kind of things you live on if SHTF does not happen, but what if it happens a little bit.

I know in a world of crisis and collapse we're actually in very good shape to live comfortably and safe. What about in a world that isn't in collapse, but just more messed up then we have today. You know what I mean - a world where those without vote for those who will take from those who have - and share with them to buy favor / votes. Imagine you amass a nice retirement only to lose it to those who didn't bother. How then do you "get by?" I can always retreat to the rural home and just live out my days, but if the world is still a nice place to be in I want to enjoy it. I want to be able to count on my assets delivering a comfortable life. I don't want them to disappear to a tax man so a dead beat can get a hand out.

The only way I can imagine off the top off my head is substantial savings / cash / movable assets like PMs. I mean if you sell something that doesn't get you tracked by social security number (like selling 2 ounces of silver on Craigslist) that cash isn't tracked and you can spend it on a nice dinner out or tickets to a movie or whatever you want to enjoy life. If I pull money out of an IRA to do that a strong percentage will go to uncle sam first (25% likely) and who knows if they wont' demand more when they have total control.

So other then cash in the mattress, other then some PM's is there any avenues to invest and have "cash" when you need it without paying taxes on it - again?


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Gemstones, diamonds, rubies and the like. Easily more portable than metals but also harder to value accurately. They are also more volatile in price.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Hmmm. Very interesting proposition Sir. Have learned most of these prepper folks live in lala land and insist on inhabiting imaginary scenarios which have took root in there heads. Thanks for pointing that out. I would vote to move a double wide onto the land and sell it to a yup on the lease purchase option. They fall for it a lot in this area. Point out the good points of country living etc. This is making sense now.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Stay the course. You make decisions after analysis, that's the best you can do.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Right now silver is around $15 an ounce. 
Why sell it on craig's list? Wait till it's $42 again and cash it in locally. If we have learned one thing from Snowden, it is that the goverment has a fully operational search engine equivelent to google...and they let all sorts of departments submit queries. If the IRS can drum up a half-assed warrant (or letter of national security) they would quickly discover your subterfuge (in about 3.35 nanoseconds).

You can cash in silver all over the place: jewelry stores, coin shops, pawn stores, etc.
Silver prices will climb as soon as there is uncertaintity in the stock market or internet.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Cash it in how? If I go to a business to sell it they'd require ID and identify me as the one they bought materials from....they have to otherwise the govt claims they bought stolen goods or made up the expense. If I buy PMs with after tax dollars today I'd have to hawk them for cash when I wanted the cash for fear of having to pay income taxes on it then.



Ralph Rotten said:


> Right now silver is around $15 an ounce.
> Why sell it on craig's list? Wait till it's $42 again and cash it in locally. If we have learned one thing from Snowden, it is that the goverment has a fully operational search engine equivelent to google...and they let all sorts of departments submit queries. If the IRS can drum up a half-assed warrant (or letter of national security) they would quickly discover your subterfuge (in about 3.35 nanoseconds).
> 
> You can cash in silver all over the place: jewelry stores, coin shops, pawn stores, etc.
> Silver prices will climb as soon as there is uncertaintity in the stock market or internet.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Really? I didn;t know that. I was totally just throwing out some random wisdom I made up.

Yeah, you can sell it in small batches with no problem. Even if they do record it, the records are localized, unlike Craig's list that is scanned 124,000,000 times a day by the government. If you sell silver on Craigs list then you might as well just email the damned IRS, it's that visible.

Usually when I buy silver I keep the receipts so that in a few years when prices spike I have some idea what I paid for it. 

I buy it in small lots, here and there, and sell it back the same way. People do it all the time.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Other assets of physical value serve similarly. Which ones? The ones you know best, think will hold or gain value in the kind of scenario you're talking about, and preferably enjoy collecting anyway. For a lot of people on this board, that might be historical firearms. Now, if cool old scuba gear had a good resale value, I'd be set....


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Right now silver is around $15 an ounce.
> Why sell it on craig's list? Wait till it's $42 again and cash it in locally. If we have learned one thing from Snowden, it is that the goverment has a fully operational search engine equivelent to google...and they let all sorts of departments submit queries. If the IRS can drum up a half-assed warrant (or letter of national security) they would quickly discover your subterfuge (in about 3.35 nanoseconds).
> 
> You can cash in silver all over the place: jewelry stores, coin shops, pawn stores, etc.
> Silver prices will climb as soon as there is uncertaintity in the stock market or internet.


May I point a person to Toronto Gal who actually survived the scenario envisioned which took place amongst the Russian branch. She say the folks was giving up all the precious metals and family jewels for toilet paper..marlboros and Vodky. Her Mama made soap out of dog fat. Are there any other alternate worlds to which a person might dwell?


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Something to keep in mind is any time the economy tanks precious metals take a huge nose dive. Investing in precious metals you are banking that the economy gets better increasing the value of what you paid for it. Anyone notice last year the drop in gold value based on the drop in crude oil prices?


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Sounds like it worked then.

I would also suggest guns for investing...but since I am loath to sell any (as are most) the idea seems better on paper.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

Buy a crate do SKS rifles. They've gone from 79 bucks up to what now? Buy a few crates. Crates come cheaper per unit to start so it's immediately profitable. But the price just keeps climbing. 5 years from now you could be on a nice little nest egg. Sell em off as new for the going rate.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Don't forget cases of ammo on stripper clips for those SKS rifles.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

After gold tanked last year, its now at its 2010 value.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

As per OP, roadside vegetable stand to include selling eggs. No taxes. Plus renewable source for selling stuff. And if the property is zoned agriculture, even low property taxes.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Ripon.. you bring up a very good topic and a bit of reality too. So here are my thoughts.. Barring and EMP (natural or manmade), yellowstone blowing it's top or california dropping off into the pacific, life as we know it now will continue along the path we are seeing. Depending on your bent, take that any way you like. The reality will be more governement control, higher taxes, lower standard of living, yada yada yada.. Just look to the EU as an example. 

So, with that background, taking the status quo, what to do to make retirements comfortable. The million dollar question. Yeah, you can do silver, toilet paper and soap but unless the poop really hits the fan all that will get you is a lack of storage space and bad investments. No matter what we think of feel, or how bad you think it might get, this is still America and not serbia, the Ukraine or Venezuala. There are historic and cultural differences along with political and econimic differences. Apples and oranges. Lessons to learn? You bet! But still apples and grapefruit. 

Depending on where you live, I think property is still a good route for income. Investment property that will return you income such as a rental house, etc. You will then be able to take advantage of the write-off's and lower your tax liability. And by the way.. you will rarely if ever be able to eliminate paying taxes. The key is to limit the amount. Income property will also rise in value and is a good hedge on inflation.... and inflation will hit at some point in the future. So I think anything that is a hedge on inflation is good. I also think that if you can, wise stock investing is still good. A mix of indexes, bond and equities will help. In your case, close to retirement, conservative would be the way to go in the market. Given the current world, and barring a real shtf, the market will be up and down as it has for decades. 

Your posts sets a good reality check where we "prepare" but still need to live in the current and non-shtf world.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

There is an uninhabital A frame house beside me. Lady bought it & rented it to her brother. He put a window AC in the livingroom & one in the bedroom. Both improperly installed & leaked into the walls. He moved out because of the mold. No repairs done so rot & mold has continually gotten worse.
My point is that rental property isn't necessarily a good investment.


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