# 2nd Nurse on the Plane with Ebola was worse than we're lead to believe...



## Ranga14 (Oct 2, 2014)

So my co-worker tells me that one of his wife's Oncology patients was a passenger on the plane the 2nd Ebola nurse was on. She said that the nurse was wearing a mask but she was *hacking and coughing* constantly while on the plane!

Dumbass CDC!


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/dallas-hospital-staff-ebola-training-official/story?id=26240790

Yea well apparently they had absolutely NO training! ₩<>¤》《{{ !!!! ????


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## Ice Queen (Feb 16, 2014)

Hmm, hacking and coughing isn't usually associated with Ebola. It's hard to take anything seriously that isn't first or even second hand. That said, she should not have left Dallas the first time, nor gotten on the plane with a temperature in Ohio, regardless of being cleared by the CDC, by some one who obviously could not think beyond following an algorithm. The nurse did try to notify the CDC, that said, she should have had the common sense to know this was not the time to hop on a plane for a junket. Medicine as a whole, has gotten way to dependent on algorithms which doesn't serve the patient or public very well. I think it was unnecessary and over the top to close 2 schools in Ohio because some one had traveled on the same plane, even though she was not on the plane, at the same time with the patient. The plane was likely sanitized. I believe 99.999% of the people in Ohio are safe. If they aren't, and people get sick, I will eat my words. Her mom, mother in law, fiancée, other family and friends were likely were exposed, and we have to wait and see. I hope they are in quarantine at home, monitoring themselves. I believe they could get sick. I doubt that any one on the plane either with her or after her, will get sick, HOWEVER, I think we need to enact some type of travel restrictions. I have stated before what I believe those should be. I have to travel by air in January, at this point, I feel OK traveling by plane. That may change by January and I may be going by car despite the long drive thru very bad weather. It's a matter of what kind of risk, and the level of risk one is willing to assume.


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

Ranga14 said:


> So my co-worker tells me that one of his wife's Oncology patients was a passenger on the plane the 2nd Ebola nurse was on. She said that the nurse was wearing a mask but she was *hacking and coughing* constantly while on the plane!
> 
> Dumbass CDC!


As it is now being explained, the nurse on the flight may or may not have entirely forthright and honest with CDC when seeking authorization to travel.



James m said:


> Dallas Hospital Staff Had No Ebola Training, Official Says - ABC News
> 
> Yea well apparently they had absolutely NO training! ₩<>¤》《{{ !!!! ????


I can understand that Ebola may require a different level of training, but universal precautions for contact and droplet transmission are standard practice for all health care providers. One doesn't require training for such, though training with the new equipment and supplies is necessary.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

"Hmm, hacking and coughing isn't usually associated with Ebola."

No not really, hm hm hmm

"she should not have left Dallas the first time, nor gotten on the plane with a temperature in Ohio, regardless of being cleared by the CDC, by some one who obviously could not think beyond following an algorithm."

What I have got out of this....are we seriously talking about 99.4 here vs 99.5? That is it?
I don't buy she even had to call the cdc? Job title was "nurse"? Also, I think the clear plane boarding picture pretty much said "actors" to me somehow. 

Back to that other not-typical behavior, so if anybody does get sick..

" I believe 99.999% of the people in Ohio are safe. If they aren't, and people get sick, I will eat my words"

With what sauce?  that's a higher stakes bet when there is weird stuff going on. What if it wasn't her at all and her jihad buddy was aerosoling in there and she cough to cover? FBI Def looks at things like that in things like this.

One would hope not, but it does look riskier to me with the oh or ks situation to me. Florida either, but their Temps are still better than chilly wet land...


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

Ice Queen said:


> Hmm, hacking and coughing isn't usually associated with Ebola........


Flu-like symptoms are absolutely associated with an acute Ebola infection.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Sockpuppet said:


> As it is now being explained, the nurse on the flight may or may not have entirely forthright and honest with CDC when seeking authorization to travel.
> 
> I can understand that Ebola may require a different level of training, but universal precautions for contact and droplet transmission are standard practice for all health care providers. One doesn't require training for such, though training with the new equipment and supplies is necessary.


Yes. This does seem just a little too "keystone cop" klutz and dumb doesn't it? 
They all do get infection control and then hospitals make them do their inhouse IF too. Then, the first time they gown someone watches to make sure they are patent.

I was going to go back through and see when I first said "who? Doesn't matter as much as are! under attack. 
I believe that by the time the feds put it all together and tell us it will be too late. I am very curious as to where we will be by mid-november....but I am pretty sure we will have a good guess by halloween.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Sockpuppet said:


> Flu-like symptoms are absolutely associated with an acute Ebola infection.


But unless there is upper respiratory invol....wait! The nurse woman is more correct. Unless there was secondary something no, I do not think hacking and coughing goes so believably with 99.5 stage, but....granted we are all wondering about the truer vectors and parameters of this one.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but I knew exactly what IQ meant. Seems early unless the grade fever was really a pneumonia catching up?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

The way it has been told to us people who live in the region is that this nurse came up here to see her mom. The nurse was planning her own wedding. She got cdc permission to travel because she was not symptomatic at that point. 

Then we found out that for the first two days that Duncan was being treated, they didn't even have the nursing staff in protective gear! Perhaps needless to say, I don't think highly of the hospitals in Texas.


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> .......Then we found out that for the first two days that Duncan was being treated, they didn't even have the nursing staff in protective gear! Perhaps needless to say, I don't think highly of the hospitals in Texas.


Take such with a grain of salt. Remember that failure to adhere to Universal Precautions, will land licensed staff into deep trouble with their respective state licensing board.

Protective gear of some nature is available in every hospital OR suite and Emergency Department in the country. I find it difficult to believe that some level of protective gear was not available.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

I never said it wasn't there and available, I said it wasn't used. As in the hospital didn't tell the nurses that they needed to wear it. Hell, the first time this Duncan character showed up at the hospital, they sent him home!
I lay this issue on not closing the border flights to and from Africa.


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## Ice Queen (Feb 16, 2014)

Amber Vinson, should NOT have gotten on a plane regardless of what the CDC said. I expect nurses to think these things thru and not just blindly follow policies that may not totally apply. I don't know who screwed up and how she got on that plane, but it was a BIG mistake.

Most Ebola symptoms are more GI. I would not doubt you could cough from it, but, usually nausea, vomiting and diarrhea are the obvious ones. Fever, muscle aches, chills...pretty much like the flu until your fluid loss become obviously copious and your eyeballs turn red. It's hard to tell Ebola from most common afflictions at the very beginning.

I LOATHE getting on a plane and sitting near a hacker, by that I mean a cougher. I would think if you had a FEVER and a COUGH, and you knew you were exposed to Ebola, you would go to the nearest hospital, not the nearest airport.

That said, likely the most at risk are her family and friends.

She should have had proper gear when caring for Duncan, tyvek suits were not used leaving scrubs, shoes and skin exposed. Yuk.


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> I never said it wasn't there and available, I said it wasn't used. As in the hospital didn't tell the nurses that they needed to wear it. Hell, the first time this Duncan character showed up at the hospital, they sent him home!
> I lay this issue on not closing the border flights to and from Africa.


Wasn't his admitting diagnosis that of R/O Acute Ebola viral infection? A Registered Professional Nurse who has successfully graduated from an accredited school of nursing and passed their nursing boards, would know that such requires protective infection control measures.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Perhaps the worst part of plane travel is that the air is recirculated. You not only have your hackers, you have them over and over.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Sockpuppet said:


> Wasn't his admitting diagnosis that of R/O Acute Ebola viral infection? A Registered Professional Nurse who has successfully graduated from an accredited school of nursing and passed their nursing boards, would know that such requires protective infection control measures.


Yeah no real sense or excuse...unless public medicine is already all gone obamacare? I didn't think it was that bad yet.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Sockpuppet said:


> Wasn't his admitting diagnosis that of R/O Acute Ebola viral infection? A Registered Professional Nurse who has successfully graduated from an accredited school of nursing and passed their nursing boards, would know that such requires protective infection control measures.


The first time he showed up, the hospital didn't know he had Ebola. When he came back 2 days later, they STILL didn't tag him as having Ebola. The first time he showed up, he didn't tell them he had been in Africa. And then they admitted him for testing, but ×hile he was blowing his guts out both ends, they were still treating it like it was a flu level disease. I'm pretty sure some heads will roll over this. I just hope it's the right ones.


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> Perhaps the worst part of plane travel is that the air is recirculated. You not only have your hackers, you have them over and over.


Possibly, given droplet precautions are of issue, but its also not a respiratory borne transmission.

Furthermore, the family of Duncan who lived in the same home with him everyday, didn't contract the virus.


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> The first time he showed up, the hospital didn't know he had Ebola. When he came back 2 days later, they STILL didn't tag him as having Ebola. The first time he shoeed up, he didn't tell them he had been in Africa.


The first time was a medical staff F up.

The second time to the hospital, was under the R/O diagnosis. It wasn't confirmed for 2 days, but that doesn't mean that healthcare workers treat it any differently.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Ice Queen said:


> It's hard to take anything seriously that isn't first or even second hand.


No, you don't understand. I my cousin has a friend who's girlfriend knows this one guy who's sister said that....


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> No, you don't understand. I my cousin has a friend who's girlfriend knows this one guy who's sister said that....


That reminds me of this, starting at :36..........


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Sockpuppet said:


> Possibly, given droplet precautions are of issue, but its also not a respiratory borne transmission.
> 
> Furthermore, the family of Duncan who lived in the same home with him everyday, didn't contract the virus.


Uh , no. It was simply a general comment about one reason I could live very happily without traveling by plane! &#55357;&#56861;

Update: Now they say that there was ppe in use at the hospital in Dallas, but that the two nurses who are now sick had no training on how to treat an Ebola patient.

And face it (or duck), Ebola is not aerosolized.... Until it is.


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## Ice Queen (Feb 16, 2014)

The first visit of Duncan to the ER on the 26th was terrible. The nurse did note that he was in W. Africa. Don't know what the doctor was thinking (if it was a doctor or PA or whatnot, ONE of them should have caught it, and if they did, he may be alive today, but they will be unable to legally prove that.

The second time he came in, the nursing supervisor (likely called in by the ER nurse) had to argue with the administration to get him put in isolation.

When he finally made it to the isolation room in ICU, the PPE made available to the nurses was what the CDC recommended for droplet spread, but not necessarily for a BSL 4 pathogen. This is what you get when you work in a LAB with a BSL 4 pathogen. BSL 4 | Protective Clothing | Honeywell Safety

This nor what MSF uses in W. Africa was made available to them. Ebola | Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) International

THIS was roughly what they got, and it is not enough for a BSL 4 pathogen. It posed a danger to them and also expedited spread of the disease out of the room via the scrubs and shoes. 




Yes, it would take some repeated practice to use the MSF PPE effectively. They have a procedure written. It was assumed that MSF needed that high of a level because their hospital there are so primitive. What they didn't consider was that a modern high tech hospital didn't necessarily prevent the spread of the disease. Our modernity may have spread it more readily. We had too many personnel entering the room and then sauntering all over the hospital. Ebola requires a 'dedicated' staff and 'dedicated' equipment, that stay on that unit and only work with those patients and that go thru a decontamination before they leave that unit.

I think the medical system has learned its lesson, and frankly, they are likely very nervous should we start seeing a lot of cases. This is not business as usual, and Ebola made that very clear.


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> Uh , no. It was simply a general comment about one reason I could live very happily without traveling by plane! ��


Okay?



thepeartree said:


> Update: Now they say that there was ppe in use at the hospital in Dallas, but that the two nurses who are now sick had no training on how to treat an Ebola patient.


No training for just an Ebola patient? That is the same as stating that one hasn't received any exposure training at all. OSHA: Healthcare Wide Hazards


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## Ice Queen (Feb 16, 2014)

PPE is simply some barrier over your scrubs.

Because Ebola is spread by droplets or splashes of bodily fluid they used droplet PPE. They did not adapt that level of droplet precautions to address the fact that Ebola is a BSL 4 pathogen. ONE virion can cause fatal disease. That pretty much warrants a moonsuit with SCUBA to me, and I believe at the 4 Ebola centers they are using at least moonsuits with PAPR filters. I think it wise to go to the Tyvek impermeable suits with PAPR and do it with MSF protocol which has been quite effective given the thoroughly contaminated environment they work in. The cost of this is going to be very high, and will generate a lot of waste, but fewer health care workers should catch the disease.

I also feel we need Ebola centers, so that people that need to go to a hospital for other reasons can feel safe doing so. We need a lot more than the 4 centers and 11 beds we have. Every state needs at least one, or more designated in the event we have an outbreak. I hope we don't get to where each county needs one. I hope they use hospitals that are NOT ones where we do a lot of procedures such as Texas Presby, because we need those huge referral centers to be working for the rest of the population for every day care, C sections, heart attacks etc. Instead, smaller, general hospitals could be converted for Ebola use and turned into strictly Ebola centers if this starts to go 'viral' on us. I would like to see triage centers set up near but outside of ER's, where patients with fever or Ebola symptoms go first. If they are deemed at risk, they need to go to a holding center, in isolation, until they are cleared, and can safely go to a hospital or until they are diagnosed with Ebola, at which time they go to an established Ebola Center. Hopefully that 11 bed capacity rises quickly, because 11 beds is pathetic. That could be filled in the next few weeks, then what?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Like every other scandal over the last 5-6 years we will never know the truth.
1. Blame the Nurse
2. Blame Bush
3. Blame GOP 
then stop talking about it.


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## Ice Queen (Feb 16, 2014)

CNN is reporting that this nurse "MAY" have had other symptoms on Friday the day she flew from Dallas to Cleveland. If so, THIS changes the dynamic. (I don't get how they didn't know this a few days ago...what....did she just remember she had other symptoms 2 days earlier??)


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

Ice Queen said:


> PPE is simply some barrier over your scrubs..........


Given the fact that the patient was in 
1. a negative pressure room, and 
2. that the hospital staff possessed training regarding infection control,
3. and utilized at least some level of infection control procedures;

I'm amazed that everyone who had contact with the patient prior to his hospitalization, 
4. didn't possess or utilize any form of biohazard protection, and had 
5. little or no knowledge of infection control,

haven't contracted the disease.


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## Sockpuppet (Sep 6, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Like every other scandal over the last 5-6 years we will never know the truth.
> 1. Blame the Nurse
> 2. Blame Bush
> 3. Blame GOP
> then stop talking about it.


I blame human error for 99% of all screw ups.


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## Ice Queen (Feb 16, 2014)

I can honestly say, that if my employer asked me to enter a room with a known Ebola patient, dressed for droplet precaution, I would have resigned on the spot. There is a point, at which a person has to take a stand.

So, IF this nurse #2 was indeed symptomatic for 4 days before hospitalization, then yeah, the risk is higher to contacts. If she didn't puke or poo on you or on surfaces that you used after her, risk is low, but still there. Given they closed schools, either they know WAY more than they are saying or they are histrionic. I suspect they know more than they are saying. I suspect this is how things will go until it's real obvious that we have an undeniable issue.

Also, interesting aside. I got a call from a nursing recruiter today. THAT hasn't happened to me in 30 years.


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## NavySEAL (Oct 16, 2014)

Ice Queen
Is it true that under best of conditions only 50% survive?
thank you
NS


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Ice Queen said:


> PPE is simply some barrier over your scrubs.
> 
> Because Ebola is spread by droplets or splashes of bodily fluid they used droplet PPE. They did not adapt that level of droplet precautions to address the fact that Ebola is a BSL 4 pathogen. ONE virion can cause fatal disease. That pretty much warrants a moonsuit with SCUBA to me, and I believe at the 4 Ebola centers they are using at least moonsuits with PAPR filters. I think it wise to go to the Tyvek impermeable suits with PAPR and do it with MSF protocol which has been quite effective given the thoroughly contaminated environment they work in. The cost of this is going to be very high, and will generate a lot of waste, but fewer health care workers should catch the disease.
> 
> I also feel we need Ebola centers, so that people that need to go to a hospital for other reasons can feel safe doing so. We need a lot more than the 4 centers and 11 beds we have. Every state needs at least one, or more designated in the event we have an outbreak. I hope we don't get to where each county needs one. I hope they use hospitals that are NOT ones where we do a lot of procedures such as Texas Presby, because we need those huge referral centers to be working for the rest of the population for every day care, C sections, heart attacks etc. Instead, smaller, general hospitals could be converted for Ebola use and turned into strictly Ebola centers if this starts to go 'viral' on us. I would like to see triage centers set up near but outside of ER's, where patients with fever or Ebola symptoms go first. If they are deemed at risk, they need to go to a holding center, in isolation, until they are cleared, and can safely go to a hospital or until they are diagnosed with Ebola, at which time they go to an established Ebola Center. Hopefully that 11 bed capacity rises quickly, because 11 beds is pathetic. That could be filled in the next few weeks, then what?


Ice Queen,

Actually, tthere are 5 hospitals equipped to deal with Ebola. A whole 5 in the entire country. In fact, it has made me wonder what's going on. That Pham girl was shipped off to Maryland and there is no such 'L4' hospital there.
In any case, the CDC is now asking anyone who _thinks_ they may have been close toa known carrier to voluntarily sequester temselves for 21 days. And as for 11 beds, in a big city you could fill that as fast as you can admit 11 patients, once this get rolling. Dr. Rich Besser said we canexpect this to get worse before it gets better. Something about 4500 a week dead in Afica.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Sockpuppet said:


> Given the fact that the patient was in
> 1. a negative pressure room, and
> 2. that the hospital staff possessed training regarding infection control,
> 3. and utilized at least some level of infection control procedures;
> ...


Well, it's kinda because he wasn't exhibiting the violently obvious symptoms until he was in the hospital. Body fluids only, as you said...


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Sockpuppet said:


> I blame human error for 99% of all screw ups.


The more that comes out, the less this sounds like a **** up and more like "accidentally on purpose"


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

To comments on training... 

There is no way in hell, in today's age that a nurse won't have at least the most basic training in infectious disease... We have HIV, and hep a, b and c as "sexy" contagions, we also have flu scares every year... I find any call based in lack of training hard to believe, maybe lack of a proper breafing outside what we are told seems close to the truth, remember its classed as a direct contact virus....


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> To comments on training...
> 
> There is no way in hell, in today's age that a nurse won't have at least the most basic training in infectious disease... We have HIV, and hep a, b and c as "sexy" contagions, we also have flu scares every year... I find any call based in lack of training hard to believe, maybe lack of a proper breafing outside what we are told seems close to the truth, remember its classed as a direct contact virus....


I partly agree with you. However, ebola is on another level. One false move and you're a statistic.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> ...
> In any case, the CDC is now asking anyone who _thinks_  they may have been close toa known carrier to voluntarily sequester temselves for 21 days. ...


I can imagine the conversation now - Hi Boss, I was in contact with a person that might have Ebola I will be unable to come to work for 21 days.

Most people can't afford to not get paid for 21 days or take a chance of being fired. So they are going to go to work and possibly infect others. It is a nightmare waiting to happen.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> I partly agree with you. However, ebola is on another level. One false move and you're a statistic.


That's true, that's where the breafing comes in, and there is a lot of alarm bells as what we are being told about the bug, is not matching how these nurses are getting it (my tin foil hat addition)

But I bet nurses are been told its "direct fluid contact" so they are using similar procedures as HIV or hep series bugs, the procedures are fine for those fluid contact bugs so what's missing??


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> That's true, that's where the breafing comes in, and there is a lot of alarm bells as what we are being told about the bug, is not matching how these nurses are getting it (my tin foil hat addition)
> 
> But I bet nurses are been told its "direct fluid contact" so they are using similar procedures as HIV or hep series bugs, the procedures are fine for those fluid contact bugs so what's missing??


Great question. I think misinformation may be the answer. I have no experience in the medical field yet my dumb ass would be smart enough to steer clear of ebola patients unless I had a "moon suit" won't be long before the front line medical professionals refuse to treat these people without the proper ppe and decon procedures in place. America is understaffed in health care without the ebola. Lord help us if it breaks out.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

When asked point-blank if the nurses in the Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital had ANY training on caring for a patient who has Ebola: Boss of CDC in front of Congressional oversight committee ON TV(!), (paraphrased), "Weeelllll.... Ya see, it was like this...uh...um...ah...(rubs neckline of shirt while looking at the corner of the ceiling, or maybe the clock)...errr..... No.".

There you have it. Training for handling an L4 disease patient? NO.

Same answer they would get when they ask about any but the 5 hospitals that are set up for Ebola. When asked why they didn't stop people from coming into the U.S. during this outbreak, the Talking Head said "Well, we can track peoples' movements...". So, the government can track your every move and tell who you come in contact with. Isn't that wonderful?

And then the NEXT bombshell: Not only are they not going to stop influx from Africa, BUT 6% OF THE PEOPLE COMING IN AREN'T SCREENED FOR EBOLA AT ALL!

I believe that you have my official permission to declare a Level 4 SHTF Event. Thank you and have a good night (click).


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

pheniox17 said:


> The more that comes out, the less this sounds like a **** up and more like "accidentally on purpose"


Hmm...hmm..hm 
And survival depends on how quickly caught and how good your care is, which is everywhere from clueless idiots to top of the shelf in this country. 50/50 was your care figure before this, so caught immediately that's not a bad projection?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> I partly agree with you. However, ebola is on another level. One false move and you're a statistic.


My guess is that it will depend 100% on 1) How fast you catch it, 2) How close you are to TRAINED care, and 3) pure LUCK.

Given what I've seen, you've got 80% maybe or higher not to catch it (right now) and if you get it, it's more like 30%. The reason being that there is no cure, just basic supportive care. They're talking that there are experimental drugs they can try, but that's not something to hang your life on.


Auntie said:


> I can imagine the conversation now - Hi Boss, I was in contact with a person that might have Ebola I will be unable to come to work for 21 days.
> 
> Most people can't afford to not get paid for 21 days or take a chance of being fired. So they are going to go to work and possibly infect others. It is a nightmare waiting to happen.





oddapple said:


> Hmm...hmm..hm
> And survival depends on how quickly caught and how good your care is, which is everywhere from clueless idiots to top of the shelf in this country. 50/50 was your care figure before this, so caught immediately that's not a bad projection?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Gack! The government is saying that a travel ban is less effective than the measures they are taking. That scares the crap out of me.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

A lot of times they dont tell nursing staff if a pt is infectous. I recently had a pt. on several anti virals. When I asked the director of nurses why the person didn't have hiv or aids in the list of diagnosis's? She said she "doesn't want the staff to treat the pt any differently than any other pt". I said well, if she fell and started bleedin from say her head, someone, maybe myself, would probably grab a towel and try to stop the bleedin befor they put on gloves and could be exposed to "the bug" she was like oh well that would be your fault. Probably the same deal with ebola, we wouldn't want to offend someone would we?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I've decided that when Obama comes out and says, "If you like your Ebola, you can keep your Ebola, period," that's when I go to PucFac One.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

oldmurph58 said:


> A lot of times they dont tell nursing staff if a pt is infectous. I recently had a pt. on several anti virals. When I asked the director of nurses why the person didn't have hiv or aids in the list of diagnosis's? She said she "doesn't want the staff to treat the pt any differently than any other pt". I said well, if she fell and started bleedin from say her head, someone, maybe myself, would probably grab a towel and try to stop the bleedin befor they put on gloves and could be exposed to "the bug" she was like oh well that would be your fault. Probably the same deal with ebola, we wouldn't want to offend someone would we?


That's downright criminal, period.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Last year at this time we were concerned with Ammo prices and weapons shortages, now we looking for high level BIO suits. Obama what a ride.


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