# What to do during first few days of SHTF or EOTWAWKI - if no electricity/mo.vehicles?



## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

In a perfect world we would be completely prepared and not need to scramble at the last minute. However, I think it is safe to say that not many people have 100% of enough stuff to live comfortably for a year for their entire family and a few extras who may arrive. So, given this assumption, I think it is unlikely to do what I have seen some people comment on some of these boards (to hole themselves up and not venture out during the first few days of a SHTF EOTWAWKI scenario.

So for those of you who are not 100% prepared, what would you do during the first few days. I want to make this scenario very specific, so here are a couple assumptions you should make before answering:

1. you have zero electricity (such as resulting from an EMP) so generator is useless and most motorized vehicles are not running. This is a game-changing assumption for many people because you must assume that city water and sewer pumping stations would immediately cease pumping, and 
2. You are either at home or work (not on vacation/far from home).


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

The "EMP" scenerio while very unlikely is one that bothers me some. I'm getting older and I live in a relatively large town and my bug out property is 360 miles away. I've always kept enough gasoline on hand to get there and have several routes mapped out with fuel for any, but I've also assumed for the "EMP" scenerio. I have two courses of action. Bicycle out of town. I would not hesitate. I would likely leave within 30 minutes of the "event" and get my arse out of town on bike. I don't want to wait for people to realize what is happening and it will be "relatively" safe those first few hours. I can clear town, get to the rural roads and probably reach my destination in about 4 days. Please note in an EMP event many cars / vehicles will work. They may need some effort but not all cars are going to be wiped out by an EMP. Many older cars are going to be fine and I know where many of them are in my neighborhood. I'd offer those people a nifty trade for their running car very quickly because if I could get on the road inside an hour I can take more with me than a bug out bike and bike cart. Again once I clear town I can pretty much avoid any community all the way there and get there in 8 to 12 hours depending on slowing down for problems.


----------



## Old Man (Dec 10, 2012)

oswegoscott said:


> An EMP would be just about the worst scenario--right behind chemical or bio attack.
> At work--start hoofing it home
> At home--stay there and get the defenses ready,fire up the wood or gas heat,break out the kerosene lamps and candles
> unless you have electronics in Faraday cages like I do


What size is your Farday cages?


----------



## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

Ripon said:


> ... Many older cars are going to be fine and I know where many of them are in my neighborhood. I'd offer those people a nifty trade for their running car very quickly ....


That is exactly the type of idea I like for this thread. I am not someone who owns an older car/truck for the purpose of being able to survive an EMP, so this is a great option. Of course, if you guess wrong and everything goes fine, you may be screwed with your trade, but if you are correct, then your $20,000 new car that is useless would be a good trade for a beater that runs in a post SHTF world.

And yes biking will be important in those first few days...before the roads become dangerous.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I really don't think an EMP would be that devastating as people think but just incase I keep everything I would need to break into my safe with an electric lock in a combination lock safe along with a gun. You never know I don't believe in ghost but I never would sleep in a grave yard either.


----------



## Old Man (Dec 10, 2012)

oswegoscott said:


> Enough room for 2 generators, an outboard motor,lawn tractor,ATV,snowmobile. 5 spare 140w solar panels, controller,invertor -- and a galv trash can filled with smaller electronic stuff.
> It's grounded at both ends with #10 copper wire connected to a rod driven 6' down
> 
> You can do this with a metal shed--just ground it & make sure none of the stuff inside touches the metal walls


 Thank you for the information,very helpful.


----------



## astrowolf67 (Dec 23, 2012)

If at home, I'd go to my family's meeting location for a few days, especially if immediate family members were caught while away. If my vehicles won't run, I made a quick attach hitch for a small lawn mower trailer for my bicycle. If my mower will run, I can change two pulleys and a belt, and It'll reach speeds just around 20mph with a trailer in tow.

If at work, I'm prolly screwed, since I drive a coke delivery route, can't carry BOB, and can be anywhere from a few miles, to a couple hundred miles away. However, I can make a make shift pack from shrink wrap, and load it with lots of bottled water. I'd probably be at, or near one of my customers, so I'd pick up a bunch of granola bars, some matches/lighters, pocket knives, rope and a tarp . Next on the list would be to secure a bicycle and hand pump, then start peddling like crazy. I'd probably travel at night, rest during daylight.


----------



## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

First thing I would do - start a fire in my yard (not going to use my propane to cook) and cook/dry all the meat in my freezer. Eat all the frozen vegetables, and other things in the fridge asap.


----------



## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

I'm actually set of at least a year and possibly two years. Now I own and live at a self storage facility so roofs here are all steel with either steel walls or 4" thick solid concrete walls. In our storage space we have two generators and enough gas to run them for at least a month. I also have an outdoor propane grille, a turkey fryer also propane with a dozen filled propane tanks. In addition to this I have a real good wood burning camp stove that will work if it can be burned. Food we have even without refrigeration for 2 years. Water isn't much of a problem ether as it is easy to get with in a few hundred yards besides rain water trapped in my miles of gutter here.


----------



## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

The riding lawn mower is brilliant. I need a swift kick for having never considered it.

For those of you who have mentioned bicycles, I hope you have a moutain bike type ride or a hybrid between mountain bike and and up right road bike. There is a growing system, especially in the East/North East, of a Rails to Trails initiative where old railroad routes are being turned into multi use paths for hikers and cyclist. You can go from Pittsburgh to DC on one of the regular MUP's (Multi Use Paths). There are primitive camps along the way and almost always a water source every so often. It's worth checking out. I used to have some links/bookmarks but haven't checked them in a very long time since the DFW area isn't exactly cycling friendly. I do know there is a rail to trail initiative runing from Farmersville to Paris, but it's not complete.

Forums such as Bikeforums.net have sub forums on Bicycle Touring and distance cycling that are have great resources on how and what to pack for extended bike journeys. Might be worth checking out as a plan C or there abouts.


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

1. Drive to my immediate neighbors houses and make contact with them, I would do this early before everyone becomes paranoid. I have a small booklet I have preprinted that lists some common sense survival issues that need to be addressed by the neighbors. This booklet asks people to not stack your garbage on the road, make a plan to burn it now. It also teaches them how to make a toilet flush with a bucket of water (you would be supprised how many people don't know), since we are all on private septic systems that will stop a lot of disease and smell problems. I also have a small year round creek that I would open for anyone that needs water. I plant about 8 acres of wheat and barley every year that I would offer to donate to my neighbors if they help me plant it, defend it and harvest it. Depending on the time of year I also have a good gravity feed irrigation system that I would allow people to tap into. I would try to set up a daily neighborhood meeting, I am rural so all my close by neighbors is about 41 people in a 1/2 x 1/2 square mile area. I would be asking eveyone for permission to block the roads into our neighborhood (2) and help doing that, a lot of people will have working vehicles and denying them free travel around would seem prudent. I also faraday'ed a couple dozen FRS radios with rechargeable batteries and I would give one to any neighbor that is cooperating to keep communications open, I could give fresh batteries each night at our meetings. I also have 2 old horses that could be slaughtered for meat when the time seems right.

I have a lot of things faraday'ed away but if I had no power I would spend the day 2-3 preserving my frozen foods since I have about 40 cubic feet of freezer space (about 2/3 full). I have a pressure cooker for canning the meats and vegies as well as enough salt to cure meat as well depending on the temperature outside. I have an propane stove out of a old camp trailer and a burried propane tank for the fuel source.

If by the grace of God my tractor still works, I believe it will, I would use it to block the roads with some huge boulders I have been saving from my fields and dig a slit trench for bodies to be disposed of.

Reconvert rooms in the house to bedrooms (currently office space, reloading room and man-cave) as I've invited my 2 sons (1 is ARNG combat medic), 3 daughters (1 is ex army welder), wife (RN), best friend (construction), friend in Virginia who I will probably never see again. May also get a brother, sisterand mother (father lives next door).

Set up a watch rotation

Done

Haha


----------



## jc-hunter (Nov 13, 2012)

Personally, I have thought about the EMP scenario and the "Manufactured" economic collapse being planned by Obunghole and his puppet-masters. Frankly I would rather have the EMP. That way almost all are in the same boat. I would rather contend with looters and raiders than the DHS soldiers. Now if it is a Nuke EMP, that might be even better, cause our military would be reacting to the foreign attackers rather than us. I really dont want to contend with soldiers in body armor , and all their toys. The riff -raff with normal weapons would be a better fight , to me.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

This is why we prepare. Goal one those at our location will lock down. Evryone else will get there asap.
We have generatores , butthe plan is not to depend on them.
The first 24 hours will be securty and getting every one in.
Not really cocerned about EMP


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I'll be converting my diesel mower into a diesel generator, providing of course my gasoline generator doesn't go go. 

Both my diesel engines are 25+ hp, 3 cyl, and combined are almost as old as me (on soc sec), . . . so they'll both be runners, . . . an EMP won't bother them.

I'll be cooking everything I can't eat or dry or put up in jars, . . . but because the freezers are large, . . . we'll have a 96 hour or so window for that.

Security should be EVERYONE's top, #1 priority, . . . and will be mine. NO ONE will be just waltzing into my place, . . . without being detected.

Then it is just hunker down, . . . try to find out what the heck happened, . . . who is in charge, . . . and what can we do to help.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

If an EMP hits, and I am at work, I have a real long hike home. Bicycles and horses await once I get home. Otherwise, I'll be pulling my little wagon around with me when I hike around.

I am okay with no electricity. We lose power a lot, and we have a lot of oil lamps and lanterns, with spare wicks and extra oil. After awhile, you get used to the dark. 

Whoopee, we get to live like pioneers again!


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

As part of my plan is to have a couple old gas engine vehicles, Bronco and F-150, that will run after an EMP, solar flare etc. Couple old diesel trucks as back up. 
Be a couple years ahead for your wood burning supply.
One thing my wife does is fill cleaned out milk jugs with water and fill the freezer with them. Will make the food last longer, freezer runs more efficient, and nice cold drinking water. 
Hide for the first week, lock and load to defend the homestead, pray for the best.


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

at my home, install the plywood window covers inside, with my cordless drills. hunker down, wait a few days. then begin the treck to my fiances and my meeting site. then, back to my place.
at work, if my truck starts, grab the covered trailer Ive been secretly longing for, the work generator, and just leave to prearrainged meet. gather family, head to my place. If no truck, unload 4 wheeler and haul ass home.
At her house, cover the windows, bring in the doggies, hunker down becouse its in the middle of Alb. and wait a few days. and haul ass to my place.
In the case of a serious emp, i would have to hoof it, about 13 miles from work to home, and it would be tough, going into two towns. 
Still stocking up on food, but I love the idea about the frozen water jugs. I live 200 yards from a decent river, and there is cattle close to where I live, But, I wouldnt touch them unless it was evident it really was teotwawki.


----------



## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

not a single person here would go to any store? Honestly, I don't understand this mindset. Even if you are "very" prepared, if you knew you were about to maybe go a year or longer with no more stuff from stores, wouldn't you get anything? You really have that much toilet paper, soap, etc. stored up? I understand the possible dangers when people realize what is happening, but IMO the first couple days would be relatively safe. Nobody agrees? You are all just securing your property and hiding?


----------



## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

My line of thought is that unless you have a warehouse full of stuff, why would you pass up an opportunity? May be the last time cash is worth anything. Some places may actually take checks. Not an issue of not having prepped, but rather utilizing that last opportunity. Some foods simply do not have a long shelf life. I personally don't have as much flour vac sealed to last as long as I would like. Sure I have the raw ingredients to make flour, but why not grab a bunch at the onset, and delay dipping into your harder-to-use stuff? 

Just brainstorming here. I have noticed lots of preppers seem to be proud of their personal preps and I am not trying to take anything away from that, or to suggest that there is no benefit to prep for more than you currently have, but let's assume you are not sitting on an adequate supply for as long as you would like. Some people may have a supply for 3 months, or 6 months, or a year, but if you live a mile from a grocery store or 5 miles from a Wal-Mart Supercenter, you really see zero benefit worth the risk during the first few days to add anything to what you have?


----------



## grinder37 (Mar 1, 2013)

snork said:


> not a single person here would go to any store? Honestly, I don't understand this mindset. Even if you are "very" prepared, if you knew you were about to maybe go a year or longer with no more stuff from stores, wouldn't you get anything? You really have that much toilet paper, soap, etc. stored up? I understand the possible dangers when people realize what is happening, but IMO the first couple days would be relatively safe. Nobody agrees? You are all just securing your property and hiding?


These type of scenarios is what we prep for.A stop at chinamart for bread and milk is not on my to-do list when the SHTF.

However,IF I was out and about at the time,I would seize the chance to clean out a phamacy of supplies that you can't just pile up on (like my blood pressure meds,more/better antibiotics,etc),just stuff you can't buy off the shelf as i'm already pretty covered there.


----------



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

snork said:


> Some people may have a supply for 3 months, or 6 months, or a year, but if you live a mile from a grocery store or 5 miles from a Wal-Mart Supercenter, you really see zero benefit worth the risk during the first few days to add anything to what you have?


Keep in mind the scenario, no power and for the most part no vehicles. Wallmarts don't have windows so you are OK walking around with a flashlight looting stuff with hundreds of others? Even if you did get away with a grocery cart of booty, Now you have to push it home 5 miles in a WROL world. No thanks I'll stay put and live with what I have.


----------



## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

The first few days of an EMP there's no reason to bugout unless you've completely prepared to bugout and have no bug in supplies. Or the world is burning around you. Generalize there with me if you will. Otherwise organizing and accessing security with neighbors, finding and communicating news, digging in, building on and further fortifying the position will be what I'll be concentrating on. I have a bike to use for no power/gas travel and will have my AR with me depending on how the situation is. Either way I don't go out without my CCW now so I don't see not having that unless I'm dead and stripped clean. Which it won't matter much at that point anyways.


----------



## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

For the replies that concentrate on safety, I understand that and personally feel that it would have to be assessed at the time. If there is constant gunfire, and gangs roaming the street, that is one thing. However, it very well may be a situation similar to pre-blizzard or pre-hurricane. I am not assuming a warning, but it will take some time for folks to figure out what's going on. Just because YOU may have access to radio/communication, and just because YOU may be able to recognize what is happening, I am certain that a lot of people will not realize this immediately. But of course, if the situation is really bad, then this thread is useless. Otherwise, why not use it as an exercise to share information. For example, I particularly enjoy the comment above about obtaining some stuff from a pharmacy. Of course, maybe oswegoscott is able to say that he and his entire family/group takes no medication, and have multiple years worth of medical supplies stocked up, but this can simply be an opportunity to educate/share knowledge ideas. If you are not leaving your compound, that's perfectly fine too. I enjoy the contributions. i like the idea of using the tractor to dig a pit for burials (maybe a latrine too!) and moving boulders.


----------



## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

snork said:


> In a perfect world we would be completely prepared and not need to scramble at the last minute. However, I think it is safe to say that not many people have 100% of enough stuff to live comfortably for a year for their entire family and a few extras who may arrive. So, given this assumption, I think it is unlikely to do what I have seen some people comment on some of these boards (to hole themselves up and not venture out during the first few days of a SHTF EOTWAWKI scenario.
> 
> So for those of you who are not 100% prepared, what would you do during the first few days. I want to make this scenario very specific, so here are a couple assumptions you should make before answering:
> 
> ...


I have a 1976 Chevy truck that would still run. I've got a stream behind my house and a water purification system. I work 3 miles from my house (same for my wife). I never leave home without a firearm. So I could get home and just sit tight. We're set for about 60 days, maybe more if we're conservative. Beyond that, we've got stuff we could trade such as medical supplies, ammo, etc.


----------



## Old Man (Dec 10, 2012)

To each their own. For me I live in a rual location and no interset in going to town when the SHTF. I am well prepared and will stay where I am. That is why I am prepared. I do not want to be in the crowed look for supplies. I have plan so I don't have too! Why ask for a problem.


----------



## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

snork said:


> not a single person here would go to any store? Honestly, I don't understand this mindset. Even if you are "very" prepared, if you knew you were about to maybe go a year or longer with no more stuff from stores, wouldn't you get anything? You really have that much toilet paper, soap, etc. stored up? I understand the possible dangers when people realize what is happening, but IMO the first couple days would be relatively safe. Nobody agrees? You are all just securing your property and hiding?


 You have to realize that most non-prepared people are going to be there and chances are, it is going to be chaos. Rioting/violence/theft, etc.

Think about how stupid people get when a snowstorm is approaching?? Everyone rushes to buy milk and toilet paper? But in all honestly - how long does a typical storm last? Maybe a day or two? Who doesn't have enough TP to last a few days? Or can't they just go without milk for a few days? It is all panic driven by fear and ignorance. Imagine that on a national level? No power or whatever the catastrophe is, etc? It would be hell.

So a trip to the store is a bad idea. My main concern would be to lock down my house. I have more than enough food/water/medical supplies for my family to live a very long time.


----------



## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

snork said:


> not a single person here would go to any store? Honestly, I don't understand this mindset. Even if you are "very" prepared, if you knew you were about to maybe go a year or longer with no more stuff from stores, wouldn't you get anything? You really have that much toilet paper, soap, etc. stored up? I understand the possible dangers when people realize what is happening, but IMO the first couple days would be relatively safe. Nobody agrees? You are all just securing your property and hiding?


The only time I would go to a store would be in the first few hours. Most of the sheep wouldn't have yet figured out there's a real problem. Once they realize what's happening, those places will be filled with desperate people. Desperate people are dangerous people.


----------



## Sr40ken (Nov 21, 2012)

The lack of power doesn't bother me as the lack of morality especially in a panic (for the unprepared) situation.


----------



## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

Police looting after Katrina. You think people are actually going to be cordial and pay for stuff in a disaster? No chance. I am not going to be a part of that crap.


----------



## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

It all depends what type of SHTF hits us, so I plan to use the 'PIBE' strategy (Play it by Ear).
For example if it's just a temporary short-term emergency (EMP or food riots etc) a modest little Stockpile like this below would tide us over for a couple of weeks snug and safe at home until the Govt has got it's act together and organised food relief convoys into the cities, and fixed the electricity grid and water supply.










But if it's a serious longterm SHTF scenario, we begin starving like everybody else when our stockpile runs out. The bigger the pile, the longer we'll last, that's all.
The REAL survivors will be those with land and the knowledge to grow crops forever, but even they would have a hard time staying alive if it's a massive asteroid strike disaster, ask the dinosaurs..


----------



## Sr40ken (Nov 21, 2012)

:mrgreen:


----------



## astrowolf67 (Dec 23, 2012)

snork said:


> not a single person here would go to any store? Honestly, I don't understand this mindset. Even if you are "very" prepared, if you knew you were about to maybe go a year or longer with no more stuff from stores, wouldn't you get anything? You really have that much toilet paper, soap, etc. stored up? I understand the possible dangers when people realize what is happening, but IMO the first couple days would be relatively safe. Nobody agrees? You are all just securing your property and hiding?


A few years ago, my area was hit by a severe ice storm. Power was out every where, and, within just a few short hours, there were fights breaking out at stores and gas stations. Within 6 hours, businesses that were open, running on generator power, had police and national guard on site. So, no, I would not go to the store first, unless I was caught while away at work. We were not prepared, but, survived the first 4 days and never got more than a few miles from home due to reports of theft. The crime rate sky rocketed in our area during the three week span it took for most of us to get power restored.


----------



## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

I am beginning to understand this mindset some more. i understand some people who live in the country, and there is no nearby store. I also understand that some have actually experienced violence very quick after a natural disaster. I appreciate that perspective. I have endured multiple direct hits from hurricanes. Twice we have been without power for 10 days at a stretch, back to back hurricanes in 2004. Most gas stations did not have back-up generators to pump gas. There were long lines where the National Guard gave away supplies (which I never needed to use) but I did not even hear about any local violence in this situations. Thanks again for y'all's insight.


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

When I got to Wal Mart, Costco or any other significant retailer I pay very close attention to what they have. Its not that I don't have enough TP, food, or other things. There probably isn't anything in there I want and if I need it then I best already have it; but there is a circumstance in this event where I would go by a store. For example lets say I decided to take in an Oakland A's game. I enjoy the game and hit the road home (80 miles). On the way the car stops, the lights go out, and "SHTF" and I can tell by looking at my phone, all the other cars, and lack of lights that we're in for deep trouble. Worse is I'm still 50 miles from home and far too close to the bay area of California (a real crappy spot if you ask me). In that case my car bug out bag, my wife and I would attempt to procure bikes at the first Wal Mart or Costco we come too. I'd be in desperate mode to get home as fast as I can - ideally within 6 - 12 hours including the time needed to procure a bike. I have water but I'd probably get a few bottles of water, some energy bars, and maybe road flares or something that are easy to carry on the ride home.



snork said:


> not a single person here would go to any store? Honestly, I don't understand this mindset. Even if you are "very" prepared, if you knew you were about to maybe go a year or longer with no more stuff from stores, wouldn't you get anything? You really have that much toilet paper, soap, etc. stored up? I understand the possible dangers when people realize what is happening, but IMO the first couple days would be relatively safe. Nobody agrees? You are all just securing your property and hiding?


----------



## Sr40ken (Nov 21, 2012)

After Katrina and then our ice storm here in 2007 I lost a bit of faith in my fellow humans. Objective number one, what is mine is stayin' mine. Everything else will be fluid until proven otherwise.


----------



## Juggernaut (Feb 15, 2013)

Start digging a hole. Wait out the first few days.


----------



## Nuklhed (Feb 17, 2013)

I'd hunker down, marshall up the family, and go to the neighbors house. He has too many guns for the number of hands available.


----------

