# Self defence vs Traditional Martial Arts



## ROTAC (Mar 28, 2012)

Do any of you guys train in the arts have you been able to use your traditional systems to good effect :?:


----------



## C5GUY (Mar 22, 2012)

I have a 1st. degree Black Belt in Taekwondo as well as an instructor's certification in PPCT (Pressure Point Control Tatics) and do some limited training in Hapkido. I have not competed in close to 12 years but still practice at home and sometimes in my local Dojo. I feel that just the training and discipline alone that one gets from Martial Arts is worth the sweat, pain and effort.


----------



## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

I took Okinawan Kempo Karate years ago. And had a great instructor (3rd Degree BB, studied in Okinawa). I also Dabbled in this or that here and there. But the majority of my self defense training/takedowns came from law enforcement. C5GUY is right, martial arts provides a concrete foundation for self discipline. Self Discipline builds confidence and confidence provides you the base for taking appropriate action. 

Despite more bumps, scrapes and bruises than I can count, and a permanent disability from a shoulder injury, I thankfully never had it handed to me. But man, there were times when you just knew it was going to hurt before you even got started. When I was in a full out brawl I tried to do two things; Get control of the head (where the head goes, the body follows) and get them to the ground. And when on the ground, I found that one of two things happened; they either tucked their hands underneath of them (which means they can't hit you), or they try to get up which keeps their hands busy (and unable to hit you) and that can give you the opportunity to conduct a behind the back flexibility test by seeing if you can touch their wrist to the back of their head. Mostly, you just hung on waited for back-up. Pepper Spray sucks (used it three times after hundreds of arrests - only worked once) and I used my ASP Baton once (to break out a window serving an arrest warrant).

And I wouldn't want to mess with C5GUY. There was a filipino guy I worked with, he was about 6', maybe 180 lbs. He was a Second Degree Black Belt in Taekwondo. Had a wall full of trophies at home. We used to set up targets on the top edges of the lockers in the squad room or have the tallest officer on duty hold whatever we could find and Henry, in uniform and full duty gear (gunbelt, radio, vest) would come straight off the floor, pull a round house and nail whatever we put up for him. And all before we could even process what just happened. We told him if he ever needed it, we'd just shoot him and skip the fight. 

However, with some rigorous training and dedication, you can easily become a Master of Click-Ching-Pow. This is my prefered study. And avoiding situations so I don't have to use it.


----------



## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

I grew up in a tang soo do school, have to say some of the army hand to hand looks ok and so does krav magra but then again I have seen mere American amateur boxers hold their weight against several men and win. I have indeed had to use what I was taught several times on the streets when I was younger, now I just carry a gun but its definitely a good thing to be indoctrinated in


----------



## ROTAC (Mar 28, 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys i am based in japanese art ninjutsu ju-jutsu and judo have studied thai and boxing also for striking have found this covers most areas you would come across.


----------



## preop (Jun 7, 2012)

yes, several times, one kick was all that was needed. Another time, a single backfist strike broke the guy's nose and ended the fight. None have lasted more than 1-2 seconds. Real ability means that the untrained man has no chance against you at all.


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

ROTAC said:


> Do any of you guys train in the arts have you been able to use your traditional systems to good effect :?:


 40 plus years. Fought both as an amateur and a pro. But judging from the discussion so far I'll keep my mouth shut so as to keep from offending anyone present here.

There's a great deal of outright crap and a great many hustlers and con artists within the martial arts community , caveat emptor.


----------



## preop (Jun 7, 2012)

that's right. After you've had a lot of one on one instruction and sparring practice, THEN you can learn things from books and videos, if there truly is anything to be learned from such sources. I learned a bit from Oyama's THIS IS KARATE. Google for Masutatzo Oyama, and look at the pics of him chopping the neck off of beer bottles, leaving the rest of the bottle sitting on the table. Then TELL me that you think that one strike or kick, by a truly trained man, won't stop the average joe in his tracks.


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

preop said:


> that's right. After you've had a lot of one on one instruction and sparring practice, THEN you can learn things from books and videos, if there truly is anything to be learned from such sources. I learned a bit from Oyama's THIS IS KARATE. Google for Masutatzo Oyama, and look at the pics of him chopping the neck off of beer bottles, leaving the rest of the bottle sitting on the table. Then TELL me that you think that one strike or kick, by a truly trained man, won't stop the average joe in his tracks.


 And now ya ****ed up but good , one of the systems I hold Dan rank in is Kyokushinkai. And I know of NOBODY within the context of the sytem who CANNOT spell Mas Oyama's name correctly. You don't.

That speaks absolute volumes , as does your rhetoric within the above , quite simply you never fought a " knockdown" style tournament in your life......see here's what your ONE punch bullshit tells me..........that you never ever seriously studied Kyokushinkai beyond perusal of a BOOK.........students ARE NOT taught to stop at a single technique in a combat or defensive situation.

And knocking the neck off a bottle is a parlor trick , and that's ALL it is.


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

preop said:


> yes, several times, one kick was all that was needed. Another time, a single backfist strike broke the guy's nose and ended the fight. None have lasted more than 1-2 seconds. Real ability means that the untrained man has no chance against you at all.


 See the above folks? DANGEROUS ADVICE. Anyone who underestimates the " untrained man" is a fool , those who think a pissant backknuckle will stop a tough man are larger fools.

It's NOT a points tournament folks , and ****no matter what your rank***** it's not some magic panacea. I've seen a lot of " trained" folks get their ass handed to them by folks who have no formal training but who have fought on the street for a long time.

*****NO****** specific " system" is the answer , it's WHAT *you* do with the given system , and systems that are still primarily combat oriented will stand one in much better stead in a much more expedient manner than most sport based systems taught in a non resistive manner.

There's a great many myths floating about............suffice to say , if you walk into a dojo/dojang/kwoon etc on " sparring night" and there is NO contact even among the upper ranks.............WALK.

If they even say the word CONTRACT................WALK.

If the guy trying to sell you on the place is 23 years old and claiming Dan rank in several different systems..........WALK

If you know what you're looking for and you observe crap stances and shitty mechanics..............WALK.


----------



## ritepath (Nov 10, 2012)

If any of you have an Aikido dojo anywhere close by drop in and have a look. No kicks, no punches, all hand to hand defensive countermeasures to attacks.


----------



## WoadWarrior (Oct 10, 2012)

ROTAC... the bottom line with any martial art is that no matter how long you train... in a real life "oh shit" situation... you will fall back on the one or two techniques you have come to "own"... and then hope for the best. They won't be pretty or sharp and won't follow some kata you learned in the dojo. It won't look like anything you practiced and I doubt your fellow students would recognize it. That's just a fact when you have to "react" and you are facing someone who wants to harm you instead of an Uke. I don't know if you are Bujinkan or not... but I think Soke Hatsumi said it best: "If you do something and it saves your life, it was good taijutsu. In a real fight, you aren't worried about what's pretty."


----------



## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

I taught the military version of Tae Kwon Do for 15 years but also held black belts in Kenpo, and Aikido. I taught several police departments in the 70's a combination of basic hand to hand techniques put together for all of these styles as well as women's self defense courses. I retired in '79 due to starting a new business as a security contractor for large corporations and later some government work as well. Retired in 85 returning to the private sector in a completely different field mostly due to age catching up to me. Along the way also picked up training in survival skills, weapons training, driving skills as taught by many of the military/government forces in this country. Nothing wrong with learning a traditional martial art as long as you find what works for you physically as not every one everything will work for at the end of the day.


----------



## BoneHead (Nov 8, 2012)

I have some Japanese Jiujitsu. I am no expert but I am confident. 

In my opinion, people should focus on escaping bad positions and defending from chokes as much as if not more than training "attacks".

My philosophy is: striking suddenly isn't all that important if you find yourself on your back with a bigger stronger guy on top of you beating your head in. you need to know how to defend. that is what will save your life. spinning back fists and flying knees are cool to watch but most likely won't be practical in a typical self defense situation. defense doesn't even have to be anything especially fancy. being able to "read" your opponent and scoot yourself round and put your heels on his hips to press him off you and make space or knowing to grab his jacket sleeves and control his arms and buy yourself some time to breathe and calculate a plan. even if you can body triangle around him and control his body you can get yourself into a position to assert yourself and make him regret attacking you. 

Ideally, you will never BE on your back getting pummeled but we live in an imperfect world where there is always someone bigger and stronger or more ninja than you that can and will get the drop on you. especially if you just "get caught" and it goes to the ground, knowing defense and escape is important.

people that learn striking styles may not share my opinion or philosophy of it. I am just saying what I find to be true for myself and it may not hold true for someone else.


----------



## joec (Nov 12, 2012)

BoneHead said:


> I have some Japanese Jiujitsu. I am no expert but I am confident.
> 
> In my opinion, people should focus on escaping bad positions and defending from chokes as much as if not more than training "attacks".
> 
> ...


Situational awareness is the best defense in my opinion for every one. Simply look for and expect trouble regardless and move away to avoid it if at all possible.


----------



## BoneHead (Nov 8, 2012)

joec said:


> Situational awareness is the best defense in my opinion for every one. Simply look for and expect trouble regardless and move away to avoid it if at all possible.


I agree. sometimes situations are unavoidable though despite precautions taken.


----------



## kayakinack (Nov 24, 2012)

ritepath said:


> If any of you have an Aikido dojo anywhere close by drop in and have a look. No kicks, no punches, all hand to hand defensive countermeasures to attacks.


I train in Sanshinkai Karate and Sanshinkai Jujitsu. At the particular dojo I attend there is an Aikido class going on simultaneously and then continuing after we leave. So far I've never seen anyone throw an actual punch, kick, push, etc. All I've seen is a person allowing the other person to move them around and then "throw" them on the ground. I have no doubt the Sensei could probably handle himself but I feel the others are not adequately prepared for an actual attack.


----------



## kayakinack (Nov 24, 2012)

Leon said:


> I grew up in a tang soo do school, have to say some of the army hand to hand looks ok and so does krav magra but then again I have seen mere American amateur boxers hold their weight against several men and win. I have indeed had to use what I was taught several times on the streets when I was younger, now I just carry a gun but its definitely a good thing to be indoctrinated in


Your wording of "now I just carry a gun" gives the impression you believe a firearm is a substitute for some sort of hand-to-hand defensive ability because that is down right ludicrous. As the first thread I read on this forum I hope this isn't a common theme around here.


----------



## WoadWarrior (Oct 10, 2012)

Kayakinack... let me offer the reverse as some advice... this is the first thread response of yours I have read and you are already flamming other members.... to use your own words: "let's hope this isn't a common theme around here." 

The idea and intent from our forum admin is that everyone gets to express an opinion. If you disagree with someone, then say so and explain why so that others can learn from it. But... flaming others because you disagree does three things: 1) it will turn off other newcomers to this forum 2) Will cause other members to form negative opinions of you 3) Could result in you getting banned. 

So, please consider what and how you type in the future. I'm sure you have great info to share.... so please focus on that.


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

any kind of training is better than nothing!! no matter what it is it will help if you ever need it , opposed to not knowing what your body will do in this situation


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> any kind of training is better than nothing!! no matter what it is it will help if you ever need it , opposed to not knowing what your body will do in this situation


 Disagree , completely and totally. Training in the wrong many develops ingrained erroneous and patterned response that can potentially get you injured or worse.


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

Jazzman said:


> Disagree , completely and totally. Training in the wrong many develops ingrained erroneous and patterned response that can potentially get you injured or worse.


it's still better than somebody that doesn't even know how to throw a punch or block 1. . . if you know nothing then it is just that you know nothing


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> it's still better than somebody that doesn't even know how to throw a punch or block 1. . . if you know nothing then it is just that you know nothing


 That's incorrect. As I stated , training via the wrong methods will develop patterned responses that will get you annihilated by an individual with any training and/or significant experience , I've seen many such individuals get mopped up by basic street fighters with no real degree of training.

Why even waste time with training in inefficient and/or "wrong" techniques when you could utilise the time to train with a goodly degree of beneficial effect?

And would you care to have me elaborate on " blocks " and why they are 9 times out of 10 less than effective , along with why the "slip' , parries etc are infinitely more effective in the real world?


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

In addition we can address some of the commonly taught and propogated myths that get trumpeted around the martial arts community. The first being that " size doesn't matter" , it most assuredly DOES. 

Or the oft repeated " stuff the nose into the brain " bullshit. Examine what the nose actually consists of for a bit of clarity on that specific issue. Pragmatism if your *friend* as regards real world hand to hand self defense. And don't get me started on the fascination with " submissions"..............*EVERY* submission was originally either a transitory move to the BREAK or a killing choke in the original combat oriented jiu-jitsu systems. 

Picture this...you've got that wrist/arm lock on a 300lb six-eight individual , you're cranking it until he screams in pain.NOW what are you going to do? Let him loose after you've put all that pain on him and have a large strong and highly pissed off individual on their feet and with a grudge?


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

I didn't know we were talking about street fighters have been in many street fights! porn being if you have no training NONE WHAT SO EVER! and have never been in any kind of fight then anything is better than nothing. . . reading to your post I can already tell exactly how the rest of this will turn out.


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

I AM referring to people who have never been in a fight!! more people than not have never even punched somebody in the face much less been punched in the face outside of sibling rivalry!


----------



## punch (Nov 6, 2012)

Why punch them in the face? you'll likely just piss them off.Punch the throat. Eye sockets are like funnels go for the eyes. If you can break the skin on a grape, you can put an eye out. Dont gloat or celebrate, leave immediately.


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> I AM referring to people who have never been in a fight!! more people than not have never even punched somebody in the face much less been punched in the face outside of sibling rivalry!


 You are indulging yourself with a couple of common fallacies , first being that having been in " street fights" equates to " training" , this is not the case , many a street fighter has won on nothing more than naked aggression and the sucker punch.

Case in point , the traditional hard style reverse punch from chambered position will get your head torn off. Traditional hard style blocks will be ineffective and damaging to your own limbs.

And I'll ask you again , would you rather waste time training in ineffective methods or would you rather utilise said time training in more effective methods that will bring you up to speed in a more expeditous timeframe?


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

punch said:


> Why punch them in the face? you'll likely just piss them off.Punch the throat. Eye sockets are like funnels go for the eyes. If you can break the skin on a grape, you can put an eye out. Dont gloat or celebrate, leave immediately.


 In addition , hands are fragile in structure , it's quite easy to break a hand on the hard bones of the face an head. The eyes are solely a close range target , and yes one will find much better results targeting the throat and the nerve plexuses on the neck , rather then target the eye specifically think towards the temporal arch at the outside corners of the eyes. Open hand strikes to the ear will work quite well , and folks forget about the body way too much , solar plexus , the liver shot , and the spleen are quite viable targets.

Folks likewise forget about the low line structures , destroy an opponents mobility and you destroy their base , knees , ankles...the muay thai cut kick into the quadriceps........and never , ever forget about your elbows , there is good reason why there have been more deaths in the ring in Thailand and S.E. Asia from the double elbow and spin elbow than from anything else.

And ****completely forget**** the movie style flashy kicks to the head , they will get you killed on the street. The majority of folks would be infinitely better off with time spent in the boxing gyms in combination with instruction from a competent Judo practitioner that still teaches the oldstyle " combat" Judo as opposed to the new "Olympic" style.

And a word on MMA and the Gracie/Brazilian systems , despite being labeled as " Ju-Jitsu " the Gracie system is NOT Ju-Jitsu , it's the OLD Combat oriented Judo as it existed in the early part of the century.

Do NOT buy into the " every fight goes to the ground" crap , going to the MAT in a competition environment is one thing , deliberately going to the ground on the street in the world of concrete , rocks , broken glass and with the possibility of several of the opponents friends standing around to kick your freaking head off when you get the best of their boy is entirely another thing.

There are *NO* referees or trophies on the street.


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> I didn't know we were talking about street fighters have been in many street fights! porn being if you have no training NONE WHAT SO EVER! and have never been in any kind of fight then anything is better than nothing. . . reading to your post I can already tell exactly how the rest of this will turn out.


 Reading my post 'eh? Sounds like you're a bit hurt with the injection of a degree of reality into the conversation. You might wish to examine your stance and ask exactly why that is.

Yet again , most individuals do not have the time to waste training in bullshit ineffective methods , it's in the end deleterious to the intended goal and will inevitably teach bad habits that will then have to be " unlearned ". You are free to disagree all that you care to , however your disagreement will not change these facts one iota.


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

Jazzman said:


> Reading my post 'eh? Sounds like you're a bit hurt with the injection of a degree of reality into the conversation. You might wish to examine your stance and ask exactly why that is.
> 
> Yet again , most individuals do not have the time to waste training in bullshit ineffective methods , it's in the end deleterious to the intended goal and will inevitably teach bad habits that will then have to be " unlearned ". You are free to disagree all that you care to , however your disagreement will not change these facts one iota.


I have yet to say anytin of training that I personally have!!! so good job assuming on that 1. . . my point being is some people just know everything! you sir are obviously somebody who can never ever see any other side of anything you should open your own studio because you are obviously the smartest man on planet Earth when it comes to hand to hand combat


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> I have yet to say anytin of training that I personally have!!! so good job assuming on that 1. . . my point being is some people just know everything! you sir are obviously somebody who can never ever see any other side of anything you should open your own studio because you are obviously the smartest man on planet Earth when it comes to hand to hand combat


 Really? So now you'll run off at the mouth about how you're the best thing since sliced bread? See I make no assumptions , nor did I make a solitary statement as regards you personally save that you seem to be a bit butt-hurt when another individual disagrees with your opinion.

And guess what there "buddy" , you're a bit late on the "open your own dojo" schtick , about thirty years too late. So it rather seems that you're the one indulging in erroneous " assumption".

Get back to me when you can actually discuss these things like an adult human being. I'll just ignore you until such time.


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

Jazzman said:


> Really? So now you'll run off at the mouth about how you're the best thing since sliced bread? See I make no assumptions , nor did I make a solitary statement as regards you personally save that you seem to be a bit butt-hurt when another individual disagrees with your opinion.
> 
> And guess what there "buddy" , you're a bit late on the "open your own dojo" schtick , about thirty years too late. So it rather seems that you're the one indulging in erroneous " assumption".
> 
> Get back to me when you can actually discuss these things like an adult human being. I'll just ignore you until such time.


you sir are extremely funny, even more so since I have yet to still say anything about my training! "since sliced bread? Lmao . . . I have yet to talk myself up as far as any of that goes so I get to see where you come up with that point of view  have still yet to run my mouth off about myself in anyway! you have attacked practically every single post any person has made on here! and if everything is complete "bullsh!%" as you so kindly put it you attack people for their views but went slightly challenged on your own you go off the deep end and make it personal so hats off to you. . . As far as your dojo goes it was not even close to an assumption more of something you would be good at doing since you know all!!

again I have said nothing of the training that I personally have or do not have for that matter sh!t for all you know Chuck Norris could be my daddy.


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> you sir are extremely funny, even more so since I have yet to still say anything about my training! "since sliced bread? Lmao . . . I have yet to talk myself up as far as any of that goes so I get to see where you come up with that point of view  have still yet to run my mouth off about myself in anyway! you have attacked practically every single post any person has made on here! and if everything is complete "bullsh!%" as you so kindly put it you attack people for their views but went slightly challenged on your own you go off the deep end and make it personal so hats off to you. . . As far as your dojo goes it was not even close to an assumption more of something you would be good at doing since you know all!!
> 
> again I have said nothing of the training that I personally have or do not have for that matter sh!t for all you know Chuck Norris could be my daddy.


 More yapping. Along with allusions to " training" , and then that last nonsensical statement. Tell me sonny , if chuck Norris was your " daddy" would that automatically confer upon your august personage a modicum of skill , or would it just be DNA passed down?

And I have yet to " attack" anyone whomsoever , I disagreed with a statement you made ***YOU*** , not anyone else as of yet , apparently you're unable to view another individual's disagreement with a given statement you made as other than an 'attack".

That's your personal problem , not mine.


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

Jazzman said:


> More yapping. Along with allusions to " training" , and then that last nonsensical statement. Tell me sonny , if chuck Norris was your " daddy" would that automatically confer upon your august personage a modicum of skill , or would it just be DNA passed down?
> 
> And I have yet to " attack" anyone whomsoever , I disagreed with a statement you made ***YOU*** , not anyone else as of yet , apparently you're unable to view another individual's disagreement with a given statement you made as other than an 'attack".
> 
> That's your personal problem , not mine.


Just reading through all your posts on this thread and others seems to be a common trend with you! I do believe your first posts on this thread alone. . . "now ya ****ed up" and "see that above folks" nah thats not going after someone at all. Get a life . . . God willing I never come across to in real life because I'm sure just a glance from your Killer Elite eyes would drop me dead in my tracks!


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

Go on as much as you like. . . like I said before I can already tell how this conversation will play out and yet I let myself get drug into it anyways! I do however wonder what it would be like to know all! & never be wrong!


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> Just reading through all your posts on this thread and others seems to be a common trend with you! I do believe your first posts on this thread alone. . . "now ya ****ed up" and "see that above folks" nah thats not going after someone at all. Get a life . . . God willing I never come across to in real life because I'm sure just a glance from your Killer Elite eyes would drop me dead in my tracks!


 Uh huh , and now you show that you have zero idea of what was transpiring at said time you cite , get familar with the troll originally known as " GunKid " and get back to me , since of course that's who said posts you refer to were oriented towards , or perhaps you wish to defend " GunKid"?

And I note with quite some amusement that you no longer wish to discuss actual defensive tactics or training thereof. Instead you'd rather deflect towards the individual , the mark of someone who can't take it when someone disagrees with them and can't construct a significant rebuttal.

You seem to get increasingly more juvenile with each of your posts. Why is that exactly?


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> Go on as much as you like. . . like I said before I can already tell how this conversation will play out and yet I let myself get drug into it anyways! I do however wonder what it would be like to know all! & never be wrong!


 Perhaps you'd care to show us all all where I made the above statement? Which of course is infinitely more applicable to yourself. Never mind that you've failed to answer my initial query as regards why bother to waste time training in methods that are less than effective when the same time could be spent training in methods that *are* effective?

Nor have you taken issue with and torn apart any statement I've made, if you wish to do so then do so , rather than continueing to act like a spoiled child.


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

Yawn!!


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> Yawn!!


 Down to one word retorts I see , why am I unsurprised by that. And of course you're reticent to avail youself of the avenues of possible discussion provided , due to the fact that you just *must* be "right". And of course thereby consigning yourself to the ranks of the tediously boring yawners.

Good day to you sir , much luck to you in your training.


----------



## Irish (Oct 5, 2012)

Jazzman said:


> Down to one word retorts I see , why am I unsurprised by that. And of course you're reticent to avail youself of the avenues of possible discussion provided , due to the fact that you just *must* be "right". And of course thereby consigning yourself to the ranks of the tediously boring yawners.
> 
> Good day to you sir , much luck to you in your training.


definitely insult and disrespect simply because 1 just chooses to not engage you in your childish games!

and I will have you know my training has served me extremely well on 3 different continents! never once was any of them on a mat with a crowd. I yawn because I am simply bored with your aggression towards others opinions especially the ones that do not share your own!

my advice to everyone is to get any kind of training you seem to fit to help yourself simply because the almighty master jazzman says it's wrong does not mean s***! if you walk away with nothing but confidence at least you have that!


----------



## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

Irish said:


> definitely insult and disrespect simply because 1 just chooses to not engage you in your childish games!
> 
> and I will have you know my training has served me extremely well on 3 different continents! never once was any of them on a mat with a crowd. I yawn because I am simply bored with your aggression towards others opinions especially the ones that do not share your own!
> 
> my advice to everyone is to get any kind of training you seem to fit to help yourself simply because the almighty master jazzman says it's wrong does not mean s***! if you walk away with nothing but confidence at least you have that!


 You yap about "respect" and then post the above. Nope I have no respect for you , none whatsoever. And you're brain dead enough to have missed my point in the first damned place , which is don't waste time on stuff that doesn't work.

See I started out with some modicum of respect for you , your childish behavior and pissant faux tough guy attitude made sure I finished without any respect for ya.


----------



## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

The most valuable thing I leaned in a dojo was the philosophy and discipline behind the techniques.

Sure, sparring will improve your reflexes, which will make a big difference on the street. Yeah, you should learn proper stance and technique so you can deliver maximum power. And sure, you have to condition yourself to be able to strike hard without injuring yourself.

But, to me, the biggest gain was developing the inner strength required to just walk away from a fight.


----------



## Lazerus2000 (Jun 15, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> The most valuable thing I leaned in a dojo was the philosophy and discipline behind the techniques.
> But, to me, the biggest gain was developing the inner strength required to just walk away from a fight.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Now that is some good advice .... 
wish I'd learned it younger.

As for the OP's original question,
I have on occasion tested various martial arts techniques in real world situations ...
with varying degrees of success.

Mostly I used Japanese Ju Jitsu, and mostly it worked as advertised.

*PS:* This is just my humble opinion,
however I feel that information on CRITICAL ACTIVITIES like 
self defense, 
parachute packing, 
SCUBA diving, 
or do-it-yourself trigger jobs on Colt Govt pistols,
should be learned from professionals,
RATHER THAN FROM POSTINGS ON INTERNET FORUMS.
Caveat Emptor!!

*[;{)
LAZ 1*


----------



## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

I studied Chinese Kenpo and various Departmental defense techniques based on Aikido and one based on Shoto Kan and one based on Western Boxing. I am now advancing in years and would like to study Tai Chi. I heard there was a practical variant but have heard nothing since. Anybody got info?


----------



## Jim (Jul 9, 2013)

I like the statement by Laz



> PS: This is just my humble opinion,
> however I feel that information on CRITICAL ACTIVITIES like
> self defense,
> parachute packing,
> ...


Part of my prepper training involves not just learning how to fire a weapon and hit a target (which I'm pretty good at) but also the tactics needed to win and encounter. The same is true about unarmed combatives training. It's pretty easy to hit or kick someone I want to be able to do it efficiently. That is why the guy I go to for training is an expert in combatives...not just one style but hold multiple advanced black belts in different disciplines. He's also a combat veteran and swat trained LEO.

As for the OP's original question...the question I like to ask is, does what I'm doing make sense for what I'm trying to accomplish.


----------



## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

I have trained in Tae Kwan Do when I was young and Chow Gar (southern praying mantis) when I was older. Now my body is not able to do alot of what I used to do so now I am a master of Ching Ching Bang, I hope never to have to use it ::rambo::


Doc


----------



## cant (Aug 9, 2013)

bs, send any untrained man against me, and SEE what happens to the poor sucker. what YOU call "trained" and what I call trained, are obviously two very different things.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

cant said:


> bs, send any untrained man against me, and SEE what happens to the poor sucker. what YOU call "trained" and what I call trained, are obviously two very different things.


How about an old man who has a bad back and a 357? I am "untrained". The thing you have to realize is that as soon as you use martial arts you are using a deadly weapon and it is justifiable to use deadly force against you.

I attended one day of Karate training. The instructor told us there were two events in which Karate was useless: 1. someone who is twice your size and 2. anyone with a gun.

I decided I needed a gun.


----------



## Jim (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm starting to hit the older stage of life as well (50). I started my martial arts training when I was 48 because I wanted to improve my coordination, balance mental focus. I was fortunate to find an instructor who is a true master at combatives. He holds multiple advanced level black belts, master Krav Maga instructor, and a defense tactics instructor for our sheriff's department. I should mention he's a pretty damn good fire arms instructor as well.

What I have learned the past two years is that I'm still pretty tough, stronger than most of the people I'll face, but more importantly, I understand what I'm capable of and what my limitations are. 

Also, I'm not a big fan basing all my self defense and personal protection on a gun, knife, mace, taser ect...you get the picture. All of those can fail or not be available when needed. There may come a day when I have no choice but to defend on a gun for my self defense but until that time I continue to practice and hone self defense and combatives skills.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


----------



## Cqb101 (Sep 21, 2014)

Forget using any traditional martial art for self defense...think of it this way, martial arts trains attributes...they train certain skills...they train modules or blocks of instruction...and as such, they are good in that respect...but a single traditional art will not give you all you are looking for in self defense...so study several different ones...and then focus on the ones that are reality based...so then you might ask which ones to study first...here are my thoughts...
I may be the exception here as I have trained in over 3 dozen arts & combative systems for 40+ years and been teaching a half dozen of them for 25+years...have done all the hard styles(Japanese, Korean) but focus mostly on quicker styles now that don't rely on power, but instead rely on quickness and reflex training...such as Wing Chun Kung Fu, JKD(Bruce Lee's system), Filipino knife and stick fighting, Indonesian systems, and also use Krav Maga, Thai boxing, and such...I feel these arts will train you better for situations/scenarios that will require quick action and quick thinking...
For survival preppers, I would recommend to focus on striking... low kicks, punches, forearm strikes especially to opponent's neck, basic standing grappling, basic groundwork to survive and then get up off ground as quickly as possible(don't get hung up on MMA you see on TV)...learn some offensive and defensive knife and stick work...those are the modern day weapons...no one carries samurai swords any more...
Learn some basic boxing if you can ...stay away from high kicks...only good for conditioning and Hollywood...
Study any Filipino art that you can...should help you tremendously in your training, depending on the instructor...
Krav Maga is Israeli, but comprised of techniques pulled from many different systems...main focus is to train for different types of attacks on street or battlefield...pretty direct and to the point as to dealing with an opponent...no sparring or rules...mostly focuses on serious attacks and serious counter measures...
Hope this helps any one with questions about this type of training and preparedness...let me know if you have more questions...will try to respond


----------



## specknowsbest (Jan 5, 2014)

Brazilian Jui-Jutsu and Muay Thai will cover almost all of your bases for hand to hand, unless the other guy is armed of course. Supplement the above two with some intro to Krav Maga, and you'll have a one up or two over most folks you might find yourself in a brawl with. That's my two cents at least. I did a lot of greco-roman wrestling throughout elementary, Jr High and High School, then picked up BJJ/Muay Thai/MMA once I joined the Army. After that, I had the opportunity to get into some Krav Maga training on the Army's dime and down range in our fight tent. It's definitely made me a better "Fighter" altogether, and a lot more confident in the hand full of brawls I've been unlucky enough to get into. Though if there's one thing you should always remember when bare knuckle brawling somebody, or if somebody is coming at you with a weapon, wrist control will get you where you need to go about 90% of the time.

That said, by no means am I a super jutsu kidoshu fu yang master (lol), so I'm sure I don't know as much as some other folks around here. But even being just a hobbyist in some form of MMA combination or Krav Maga will seriously help you out in the event you ever need to use it. Also remember, most any fight you'll ever find yourself in will go to the ground, so focusing more so on grappling techniques (both standing and on the ground) rather than striking isn't necessarily a bad thing. Very rare is it that you'll see a fight that stays standing, unless one or both of the individuals involved are either that good or that focused on just beating the piss out of each other.


----------

