# How Low can you Go Silver and Gold



## Ripon

Silver Prices Today - Live Silver Spot Price Chart & History | APMEX

Just happened to look at the 5 year chart of Silver and see its at a 5 year low. It was down below 15.10 at one point today and bounced back a little. I'm not an investor in precious metals. I do believe in them as a "SHTF" commodity and I'm thinking of buying some routinely to have for tax reasons in the future. You see when I want my money in the future uncle sammy will want 25 or more % of it before I get mine; but I thought maybe if I had some of these PM's I could dump them on the side and not have to share? That's legal unless I profit right?


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## 1skrewsloose

In true SHTF, The Gov is my last worry.  They will look out for them and theirs, and not the common folk. my. 02 Buy what you want, but always go 3rd hand to deal.


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## 8301

Depending on the mine after all expenses related to mining and processing silver costs between $18 and $22 an oz to produce, Add to that the fact that unlike gold silver is used in massive quantities in manufacturing.

Silver is often a byproduct of mining for other metals such as lead and gold so getting exact costs on mining an oz of silver can be hard to nail down but the 5 largest silver mines in the world all showed losing money last year on their silver operations when silver was selling for $18-$20/oz.

While investing in commodities like silver is always a risk. I think it's a great time to invest since there will always be an strong industrial need for silver and eventually people will stop dumping the silver they bought a few years ago at $28 to $50/oz flooding the market.

Personally I made a large silver purchase from Silver.com last week.


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## PaulS

Silver is most often a by-product of copper mining. In the process of separating the copper the silver is also separated. The biggest cost is putting it into bars, slips, or coins. If you want to buy, now is a good time to start. Keep buying until it gets to $20/oz. and then wait for it to go back down again. It is being price manipulated to keep the price low - that makes the dollar worth more. The same is true of gold.

I don't believe precious metals are good investments - their value is constant. The prices change due to the fluctuations in the value of currency. They are a good way to protect your extra cash from inflation. Never sell it - just buy when you can afford to.


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## dsdmmat

Last time I bought silver, it was 6 bucks an ounce.


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## Chipper

Nobody ever mentions the amount of silver that is recycled or reclaimed. This must have some effect on mining cost and the price. 

Only metals I have are brass,copper, and lead.


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## alterego

I expected to see spot prices in the 11 dollar range a month ago. There is a lot of buying pressure proping it up right now. I was in liberty the other day and they had very little. Another tid bit. When spot is at low 15 dollar range they were still asking 18.58 per troy. This is slightly offensive to me. But the middle men are all getting hung with the high priced silver and spot keeps sinking. The miners and stampers will start saying they have run out of planchets which is what the us mint said two weeks ago. It is bull shit. They have plenty. However they are not going to buy high and sell low. They will stop and wait some time for the price to recover. That is where we are right now. 

If no major world event occurs the price will sink lower. It is a world traded commodity and you are paying with a currency that is getting more valuable by the day the commodity cost will go down.

This is contradictory to shtf feer porn I know. But it is reality.


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## Stick

dsdmmat said:


> Last time I bought silver, it was 6 bucks an ounce.


That's when I quit...too rich for my blood.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Consult a CPA. Tax evasion is a crime.
Meantime, there is an exchange traded iShare fund that mimics the silver bullion price on the Toronto exchange-
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=SVR.TO+Interactive#{%22range%22:%22max%22,%22allowChartStacking%22:true}


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## dsdmmat

Stick said:


> That's when I quit...too rich for my blood.


I was taking a College class, jewlrey and metallurgy. I I bout a lot of silver around that timeframe, I could not afford to work with gold back then.


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## Urbanprepper666

I started in silver maybe a lil over a year ago spot was bouncing between 18-21 per oz I hot a few oz as a gift and was hooked only buying a lil here in there from local shops once I did my research and seen it can go much lower I waited and started purchasing when it drops. My buying zone is $14-16 per oz and that's it I think I'm doing well with it I only buy it in small amounts and it's mainly for prepping or for the kids to cash in if my wife and I ever retire out of this life lol.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Looks like silver dropping under $15 today. I might pick up a bar or two.


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## alterego

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> Looks like silver dropping under $15 today. I might pick up a bar or two.


Let us know what you pay retail. All the sellers in my area are at 18.50 plus.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Use ebay dude. I am looking at the 10 oz. bars


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## Urbanprepper666

Silver fell I ordered a a few things from jm anyone else taking advantage of the drop?


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Urbanprepper666 said:


> Silver fell I ordered a a few things from jm anyone else taking advantage of the drop?


I am thinking one more price drop coming this week then buy a few bars.


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## Denton

I'm a silver bug. It wouldn't matter if gold was a cheap, I'd still prefer silver. Call it a flaw if you must.

I prefer one ounce bars. I like looking for art bars, and commemorative bars made banks, companies, etc. Some bars will be hard to spend when the S hits the F, but I suppose I will if I have to do it.

The ones I buy for other than my silver bug mental state are one ounce Silver Eagles or ones from other countries. They are real money and aren't taxed like art bars. Totally different critters.


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## Urbanprepper666

For eagles paying 19.93 and for rounds 17.43 and bars 17.74 free shipping on all orders over $100


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## Ripon

Well I bought something I've never bought before today. Canadian Maple Leaf Gold ounce. I have plenty of silver. My gold was strictly limited to - two $10 gold pieces. One of those left to me by my dad and one left to me by my father in law. Wierd - it was the only gold coins they had to. $1129 delivered isn't bad for an ounce of gold. It will fit nice in the bug out bag. I'm guessing since I bought today - $1000 is right around the corner


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

JM Bullion prices are lower for Idaho minted Sunshine bars with the "Valid" watermark you can see through their plastic "decoder".
They charge less if you mail them a check or wire money but more for paying with credit cards, I assume Credit cards charge %.
That said, I still think metals in general need to test new lows and there has to be some precious metals capitulation. The chart suggests $9 or $10 for silver. I am keeping powder dry still. When everybody gives up on metals, that is a good buy signal.


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## SurvivalGold

There may be a little more drop in gold, then a long term bull phase. Check out what this guy has been writing at MarketWatch for a while now: MarketWatch. He made a big splash with a forecast much higher than Schiff's, but he's been right before, including about downturn. He's also not a "gold bug" at all despite his projection to $25K and he goes about his analysis differently than most.

Also, check this out:

*Chris Powell: Gold market manipulation: Why, how, and how long?*


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## PatriotFlamethrower

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> JM Bullion prices are lower for Idaho minted Sunshine bars with the "Valid" watermark you can see through their plastic "decoder".
> They charge less if you mail them a check or wire money but more for paying with credit cards, I assume Credit cards charge %.
> That said, I still think metals in general need to test new lows and there has to be some precious metals capitulation. The chart suggests $9 or $10 for silver. I am keeping powder dry still. When everybody gives up on metals, that is a good buy signal.


Silver will NEVER go below $10.00 again.

The market manipulation is so engrained in the precious metals sector, using charts to predict where gold and silver prices are going is an exercise in futility.


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## SurvivalGold

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> The market manipulation is so engrained in the precious metals sector, using charts to predict where gold and silver prices are going is an exercise in futility.


But did you see what I just posted before yours? The MarketWatch guy I mentioned there has a track record of being right using his math method. Also, the other guy who wrote about manipulation and suppression has basically made the same forecast as the first guy, but for different reasons involving the goals and desires of those who may be manipulating things.


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## PatriotFlamethrower

SurvivalGold said:


> But did you see what I just posted before yours? The MarketWatch guy I mentioned there has a track record of being right using his math method. Also, the other guy who wrote about manipulation and suppression has basically made the same forecast as the first guy, but for different reasons involving the goals and desires of those who may be manipulating things.


I have read the predictions of many of these "experts" many, many times. They are all professional "guessers", and the law of averages dictates that at least ONE of them will be correct once in awhile.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.


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## SurvivalGold

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> I have read the predictions of many of these "experts" many, many times. They are all professional "guessers", and the law of averages dictates that at least ONE of them will be correct once in awhile.
> 
> Even a broken clock is right twice a day.


Well this MarketWatch guy apparently is not just one of those law of averages once is a while kind of guys, but rather someone who tends to be right with more uncanny frequency. His approach is radically different than most all of "these experts" you see, and is based strictly on math. He even rejects a lot of the traditional ways of analyzing it.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Don't fall for short covering sucker rallies! I will not ignore the charts. Gold has farther to fall IMHO. You don't have to go for the pick out of the very bottom, but there should be no rush to dump everything into metal either. I would like to see some market capitulation. Either way, any $ spent on metals will be dead money for a few years.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> Silver will NEVER go below $10.00 again.


I will remember you said that.


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## SurvivalGold

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> Don't fall for short covering sucker rallies! I will not ignore the charts. Gold has farther to fall IMHO. You don't have to go for the pick out of the very bottom, but there should be no rush to dump everything into metal either. I would like to see some market capitulation. Either way, any $ spent on metals will be dead money for a few years.


Well, it's about diversification, perhaps 20% to a third or more of one's portfolio, not all the eggs in one basket of course. Cramer likes 20% in real physical gold at least as of an interview he did about that. I saw someone posting the other day about keeping a 1/3 in real estate, a 1/3 in gold, and a 1/3 in cash. One can also do it without free cash and tax free with an IRA or partial other retirement account rollover, then take possession of the physical metals later if everything hits the fan in society. I'm not into shorting either. The MarketWatch guy I linked to definitely doesn't ignore charts, though he's into a special kind of math about these things. I like what you said about not having to pick the very bottom though. Very easy to fall into that trap and lean in that direction myself. Who can say how far gold will fall a little more before a big rise if that's how it's gonna go, for example?


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## alterego

Weather men and market commentary experts all have the same college curriculum.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Spot Silver falling below 14.5. Real-time COMEX live silver price quotes chart
Will it set new 5 year low today or rebound? Commodities getting slammed


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## PaulS

I am really interested in what is supporting the US dollar... There is no way that the dollar is that strong. There has to be a MASSIVE inflation heading our way in the near future. Who is it that is controlling the price of silver and gold?
If you have extra funds put it in gold and silver now because once the support is exhausted it is going to go very high - too high to support - when that happen sell and then buy back as it corrects.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

What supports the dollar as the world reserve currency is that the rest of the world is so much more messed up than the USA. China has no bond market. That is it's companies traded on the stock market can only issue more stock to raise capital (that evil word) instead of issuing corporate bonds at a fixed interest rate like every major US corporation does. Today, as if it was actually news, S&P downgraded the EU as a whole. Think of how well integrated the USA is. If economy of Mississippi underperforms, it will not be ejected from the USA like Greece can be ejected from the EU. How screwed up the US economy is must be compared to how screwed up the rest of the world is and it is all interconnected.


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## sideKahr

Those who manipulate the prices of PMs downward by paper selling are sowing the seeds of their destruction. Mines will shut in production when they stop making a profit. Gold is just about there now. Patience.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

sideKahr said:


> Those who manipulate the prices of PMs downward by paper selling are sowing the seeds of their destruction. Mines will shut in production when they stop making a profit. Gold is just about there now. Patience.


Who exactly do you think is "paper selling"? Read Schwager's Book on Futures. In any event, the latest precious metals price drops are driven by SPECIFIC China metals news. The entire commodities sector is bearish, not just precious metals. A bear market is a bear. When everyone runs for the exit, that is when to buy. It will be dead money for a while. Honestly you sound like someone who paid to much for some metals and needs to blame someone like "paper sellers". You are correct about being patient however. The bottom is near, but I have not seen a complete capitulation event. Of course there might not be one! Who knows? I have no crystal ball, but i can read the chart and it's going down still.


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