# New Safe: Mechanical v Digital Lock



## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

We're moving and I'm buying a new safe. The one I've had here for several years has digital lock and I've never had an issue. In fact, my wife loves the simplicity of it. The prepper in me always maintained my next safe would have a mechanical lock. However, now that the rubber is about to meet the road I'm not so certain. Looking at it realistically, the odds of a CME or EMP are low. Even with all the NK saber rattling, it remains highly unlikely. Worst case scenario, the shit does hit the fan and I spend half a day breaking into it and that's that. 

So for those of you that prep but don't obsess, any reason not to make access easy and keep the wife happy?


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

All you have to do is what I did.

Make the informed decision on the question: 10 years from now, 9 years after the grid went down, and we're living in a basic 1850's world, . . . can I still open and lock my safe?

Both of mine are mechanical.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

I don't know how big of a safe you want but I have a medium one that has digital and backup keyed access.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Mine is electro-mechanical as well. I can enter a PIN and pull the handle. Or get the key and put it in, turn it, and pull the handle.

Problem solved.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

I think we have the same type, LOL.

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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I know your problem. I looked for months before I found STACK-ON digital safe on sale at Wallyworld. 
It has a very odd looking shaped key in case of...


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Don't like an electric safe. Easy to get into is the opposite of security, IMHO. My combination is very complicated, and I can remove and secure the dial separately.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I showed the LGS how I could open a digital safe in 90 seconds if I was a thief.

They all have one weakness that can be exploited, will not publish what it is.

None of mine have a digital lock system, all have either key or combo dial.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> I showed the LGS how I could open a digital safe in 90 seconds if I was a thief.
> 
> They all have one weakness that can be exploited, will not publish what it is.


I saw that demonstrated on a cruise ship, once. The previous tenant had locked the room safe, and I had to call the purser to open it. It only took him 20 seconds; he needed a piece of wire and some other items I won't mention.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Here ya go, buy the safe you want and retrofit the lock with this.

SecuRam Systems Inc. Safe Locks


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

Grid down go with mechanical unless you have some C4 to open your safe! LOL.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

While opening a safe one time with a high security magneto dial system that failed,

I used a cutting torch to get through the first layer of plate, then ran into a security layer of cast iron which a gas torch is useless.

I had to revert to a 50 AMP plasma cutter to get through and cut the locking pin links, withdraw each separately, it was a bitch.

The safe had been designed before the proliferation of plasma cutters, the safe was proof against a gas cutter.

It would have taken a linear shaped charge to cut through the damned thing.

Could not get to the lock to do the equivalent of a "punch job" on it.

Had to certify later that the lock itself had been destroyed, which it was, took much pleasure turning it into one inch cubic piles of melted scrap.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> I don't know how big of a safe you want but I have a medium one that has digital and backup keyed access.





Back Pack Hack said:


> Mine is electro-mechanical as well. I can enter a PIN and pull the handle. Or get the key and put it in, turn it, and pull the handle.





SOCOM42 said:


> They all have one weakness that can be exploited, will not publish what it is.


 @SOCOM42 I'll tell them what the exploit is, it's the friggin key, all keyed locks that are cheap can be picked in a minute or maybe a couple of minutes, get a mechanical lock, I prefer Mosler, I'll be converting a 5 drawer lockable GSA file cabinet to a full length gun safe... when I get around to it.

*Rancher*


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Mechanical combination. I do not trust electronics to always work on demand for all the previously stated reasons. Personal quirk.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

azrancher said:


> @*SOCOM42* I'll tell them what the exploit is, it's the friggin key, all keyed locks that are cheap can be picked in a minute or maybe a couple of minutes, get a mechanical lock, I prefer Mosler, I'll be converting a 5 drawer lockable GSA file cabinet to a full length gun safe... when I get around to it.
> 
> *Rancher*


I ain't worried about anyone picking the lock.

'Cuz they'd have to find it first.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

@azrancher, my statement was related to digital electronic locks even with key alternates.

The only ones I have any faith in are combo dial types that are strictly mechanical in function.

Even those would need a barrier to prevent a punch job from defeating it.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

The best safes in my opinion are built in at the time the building is being built. A section of the floor in the closet that is lifted to reveal the door the rest of the safe is set in concrete in a slap on grade building . Also have seen safes installed with concrete around 5 sides with the door facing a concrete wall so that you could open the door but had very little space to get to the lock . That one also had a big iron bar across door with a padlock on it whole thing was set inside of a concrete room with a big metal, lockable door on it. when they were talking about the safe I thought they meant the room but they meant the safe inside the lockable room. Room was built as a tornado shelter/ panic room.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

While your trying to defeat it the Dog will eat you. IMO it just don't madder. All the safe really is in insurance against the state and basic security.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

You guys need to PM me and educate me. I kinda thought a digital safe would be safer versus a key. 
I guess I am going to have to put a sign on it saying there is an IED in it and if you open it you are F'D, LOL.
Plus sprinkle some gun powder inside of it just for giggles.

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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone. I'm getting a Liberty ... 11GA steel, no need for a plasma cutter in a worst case scenario. I like the idea of converting the lock down the road as I'm sure the dual mechanism technology will continue to improve. Currently Liberty offers a S&G Mechanical or S&G Digital. I know Cannon offers a dual lock but I don't want their product. Speaking of "safes", not to get into a semantical argument but what I'm buying and what over 90% of folks have are not safes, per se, but rather they're residential security containers. Their chief purpose is to keep good people honest, slow down the bad guys, buy time in a fire and keep curious kiddos safe from themselves.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Safes can be had with EMP proof digital locks
Shop wisely


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

My best safe is a Mosler, It was put in the shop with a crane, came out of DRMO Portsmouth.

Had TOP SECRET marked on it, and a flip type open close sign on the door, also had a radiation cleared sticker on it.

I checked, no emissions. Inside were two 12 inch high doors at the top that had dual key system to open each door.

Had lock entries I had never seen before, no keys, had to cut the doors of with the plasma cutter.

Doors were 3/8" hardened plate with a heavy duty piano hinge on the inside, the boxing was of the same plate.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> You guys need to PM me and educate me. I kinda thought a digital safe would be safer versus a key.


No need to PM you, everybody gains if we discuss it in the forum in the open. Digital Electronic Safes are the latest craze, perhaps 25 years old now, they are cheaper to make than a mechanical dial/keypad combination locking safe, all electronic digital safes that I have seen need a key for when the battery dies, therefore it is no longer a digital combination safe, just a safe with a dial/keypad and a keyhole, the key is probably hidden inside the closet door above the door molding... (always look up).

Just my $.02

*Rancher*


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diversify Son! Diversify!

My dumbass has multiple safes, some hidden, some not, around the house, outbuildings and land. Some keyed, some mechanical, a few digital. A thief will never find them all...hell, if I get the Alzheimers, I may not either...:vs_worry:


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> You guys need to PM me and educate me.............


It ain't so much as how to conveniently open the door on it's hinges like normal people do. It's about how to open the safe.... any way possible.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

azrancher said:


> ...all electronic digital safes that I have seen need a key for when the battery dies, therefore it is no longer a digital combination safe, just a safe with a dial/keypad and a keyhole


I thought so too. In fact that would make life a bit easier. However, the safe I have now has a LAGARD digital lock and there is no key entry. Unless I'm mistaken, If the battery dies (or needs replaced proactively) you pull lock off and replace the battery, keeping the contents inaccessible.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

I went with a Greenleaf mechanical lock on my Liberty safe. After a few openings I've found it easy to open and almost as fast as an electronic lock plus it will always work. Keep in mind that a safe is only as durable as it's metal walls are.

side note... even with a decent quality safe with 11 ga steel like my Liberty Franklin I can get in it with a $100 tool Home Depot sells in less than an hour, probably less than 40 minutes. Heavy metal is much more secure but very expensive. 11ga steel is a compromise I can live with on a budget. Thinner steel is something I refuse to accept.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

John Galt said:


> ............... with a $100 tool Home Depot sells.............


Or $25 at Harbor Freight.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Mechanical.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> Here ya go, buy the safe you want and retrofit the lock with this.
> 
> SecuRam Systems Inc. Safe Locks


Have you or anyone else here used one of these? If so, what is your opinion.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

inceptor said:


> Have you or anyone else here used one of these? If so, what is your opinion.


Yep, I like them. I was having my digital safes changed out to mechanical locks a couple years ago, and the locksmith recommended them. Since then another locksmith has done the same. They claim to be EMP proof? I don't know ...... I did not get the bluetooth capable model, as it does not meet my intent.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> Yep, I like them. I was having my digital safes changed out to mechanical locks a couple years ago, and the locksmith recommended them. Since then another locksmith has done the same. They claim to be EMP proof? I don't know ...... I did not get the bluetooth capable model, as it does not meet my intent.


Thanks! I had seen these before but had no idea if they were worth the money. And I'm with you on the bluetooth model, I really don't need it.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Back Pack Hack said:


> It ain't so much as how to conveniently open the door on it's hinges like normal people do. It's about how to open the safe.... any way possible.


The reason why I want to know is because I want to know the flaws of something I am using for security.

One of our outstanding members private messaged me and gave me the scoop. I'm rather disappointed that it is that easy.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> The reason why I want to know is because I want to know the flaws of something I am using for security.
> 
> One of our outstanding members private messaged me and gave me the scoop. I'm rather disappointed that it is that easy.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Ouch, I have a Liberty Centurion safe, and my hinges have nothing to do with door being able to be open, as far as I can see.
It has steel plates that go into the safe door frame, when locked. 
But, if they are trying to get the safe out of the house, they Cavalry will show up quickly..I think


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> The reason why I want to know is because I want to know the flaws of something I am using for security.
> 
> One of our outstanding members private messaged me and gave me the scoop. I'm rather disappointed that it is that easy.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


I get that.

But if there's a product that has such an egregious design flaw as to render it useless, we ALL want to know.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Back Pack Hack said:


> I get that.
> 
> But if there's a product that has such an egregious design flaw as to render it useless, we ALL want to know.


True, but I see the point of not broadcasting it to the idiots that could exploit it.

As of right now I don't really use the safe for valuable items, my family is not flashy and do not have a lot of jewelry. It's more for sensitive paperwork. But in the future if I have a need then I will either buy a better safe or add a motion activated IED that you turn on or off with a remote, LOL that will be one hell of a bang.

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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> True, but I see the point of not broadcasting it to the idiots that could exploit it............


It's already out there. It's 2017, and even the crooks have internet.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Back Pack Hack said:


> It's already out there. It's 2017, and even the crooks have internet.


True but why make it easier.

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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

inceptor said:


> Have you or anyone else here used one of these? If so, what is your opinion.


Stay strictly mechanical, no electronic locks, JMHO.


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

I have a liberty with a dial lock. 
It was worth the investment. I never considered a keypad entry.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> True but why make it easier.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Then let's make it harder for crumb-bums.

Let EVERYONE know there's an issue with XYZ safes, so XYZ will either stop selling them, or redesign them to make them more secure.

Or does this make too much sense?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

If someone wants to figure out the problem and post it, fine, I would not.

Some asshole would use the info, kill someone, and I would get sued for it.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> If someone wants to figure out the problem and post it, fine, I would not.
> 
> Some asshole would use the info, kill someone, and I would get sued for it.


I've got a case of pure paranoia I don't need any more, never been opened or used........ I'll be glad to box it up and ship it to you for free. :armata_PDT_11:


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> I've got a case of pure paranoia I don't need any more, never been opened or used........ I'll be glad to box it up and ship it to you for free. :armata_PDT_11:


I don't need it thanks, I have my own.

what I said could very well happen, there have been prosecutions based on internet related actions, found guilty.

Would be like me telling how to make class "A" explosives and building a bomb on here.

My overcautious thinking come from thinking about vengeance from those I put in prison, and who have gotten out.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> Stay strictly mechanical, no electronic locks, JMHO.


It's getting time to get a larger safe. My next one will most assuredly be mechanical.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> I don't need it thanks, I have my own.
> 
> what I said could very well happen, there have been prosecutions based on internet related actions, found guilty.
> 
> ...


Well then, the mere fact that you KNOW of an issue, and DON'T SAY ANYTHING can suck you right into a lawsuit as well.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Well then, the mere fact that you KNOW of an issue, and DON'T SAY ANYTHING can suck you right into a lawsuit as well.


You can be sued by anyone for anything. This is an extremely litigious society with lawyers trying to increase their net worth.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

inceptor said:


> You can be sued by anyone for anything. This is an extremely litigious society with lawyers trying to increase their net worth.


And it would take a lot of scratch to defend yourself when the lawyer gets up and makes his opening remarks....

"Your Honor, the defendant knew perfectly well there was a serious design flaw in the product involved. Yet, instead of being proactive and prevent others from knowing about this flaw, his silence allowed countless criminals to prey upon unsuspecting consumers who used these products with the false hope of securing their firearms. As such, the defendant's lack of action makes him culpable in this $100,000,000 suit."


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> And it would take a lot of scratch to defend yourself when the lawyer gets up and makes his opening remarks....
> 
> "Your Honor, the defendant knew perfectly well there was a serious design flaw in the product involved. Yet, instead of being proactive and prevent others from knowing about this flaw, his silence allowed countless criminals to prey upon unsuspecting consumers who used these products with the false hope of securing their firearms. As such, the defendant's lack of action makes him culpable in this $100,000,000 suit."


But it could also be argued that by sharing the information you are referring to, he could be inadvertently be giving instruction to wannabe criminals. So if Fred Garvin's safe got broken into, Fred could sue saying that the perpetrator learned how to burglarize a safe by viewing the info that was posted. Kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. In our society you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

In the same way you could be sued by the govt for teaching this technique if someone is busted for hiding contraband if they used your system.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

It is real hard to prove what some one knew over what they overtly would have stated.

Besides, at my age all I have to do is say, "I don't recall".

The pt job put me in court in quite a few criminal cases over the years, I know how they work.

Another point, publicly specifying the method of defeat could be construed as criminal act.

I am no longer considered a "friend of the court" or an LEO,

so misfeasance of duty related to public safety would not apply either 

Not divulging could go no further than a civil court,

then both parties would have to reside in the same state to have you appear before the court.

Something like this would never make it to a federal court.

I am not trying to be a dickhead over this, consider ALL my statements as advisory, 

If you (in general terms) are concerned, find out from authoritative sources,

"I'm just a pecker-wood that lives in the woods with too many guns", with an opinion. 

Hell, I might just be talking out my ass, nothing new for me.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

I like that, I don't recall. With my medical history it would be true, LOL.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Then let's make it harder for crumb-bums.
> 
> Let EVERYONE know there's an issue with XYZ safes, so XYZ will either stop selling them, or redesign them to make them more secure.
> 
> Or does this make too much sense?


Reading through your post it sounds like you're in the mood to argue. Am I wrong?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

MaterielGeneral said:


> I like that, I don't recall. With my medical history it would be true, LOL.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


The sad part is that as I get older, this is happening more often.

I figure it's kinda like a computer. The hard drive is filled to capacity but there is no where to download the excess info. So trying to cram in more info is exceedingly tough.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

I guess I will be sued because someone used DIY waterproof matches to burn down a school full of kids.






I suppose I should lawyer up for that suit coming down the pike when Joe Schmoe vac-seals hid cocaine stash.






And I wonder how much it will cost me when El Quida uses the Tare function on a scale to make IEDs.






OMG! I'd better pull this video! Someone might adapt the process to poison someone!






I'm sure mass shooters are now using this to practice killing 50 people:






Damn.... I'm a thoroughly danger person, ain't I?



MaterielGeneral said:


> Reading through your post it sounds like you're in the mood to argue. Am I wrong?


Yes.



inceptor said:


> But it could also be argued that by sharing the information you are referring to, he could be inadvertently be giving instruction to wannabe criminals. So if Fred Garvin's safe got broken into, Fred could sue saying that the perpetrator learned how to burglarize a safe by viewing the info that was posted. Kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. In our society you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
> 
> In the same way you could be sued by the govt for teaching this technique if someone is busted for hiding contraband if they used your system.


I guess manufacturers shouldn't provide instruction manuals for things they make because 'someone' might use it for illicit purposes. Don't make a manual for a car 'cause someone might use it for a drive-by shooting.

Point is: No matter what you do, you can get sued.

More to the point, many of you are overly paranoid.

Way too paranoid.

Way, way, way, way too paranoid.

.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

I was going to say something but it's just not worth the effort. Oh, word of advice. When you do your videos slow down just a little and breath more. I watched the target stand and your a bit rushed. I'm being serious and not trying to be a dick.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> I guess I will be sued because someone used DIY waterproof matches to burn down a school full of kids.
> 
> I suppose I should lawyer up for that suit coming down the pike when Joe Schmoe vac-seals hid cocaine stash.
> 
> ...


See now you're getting the picture. But you did bring up the lawsuit discussion.



Back Pack Hack said:


> I guess manufacturers shouldn't provide instruction manuals for things they make because 'someone' might use it for illicit purposes. Don't make a manual for a car 'cause someone might use it for a drive-by shooting.
> 
> Point is: No matter what you do, you can get sued.
> 
> ...


No, just being realistic here. Manufacturers only provide the minimum info required but still face possible lawsuits.

Gun manufacturers were facing possible lawsuits for how their product was used. Paranoid? Nope.

You think the stupid stuff put on warning labels is because the companies got bored? Here are a few.

20 Ridiculously Stupid Warning Labels! | SMOSH

Oh, and there is everyone's favorite: A lady buys hot coffee at McDonald's, puts in her lap and drives off. She spills the hot coffee, then sues McDonald's and wins. I know, shame on them for not posting a warning about hot coffee.

Paranoid, no. Just realistic and reacting to your overreaction.


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