# I often think one of the most valuable shtf guns I have is my 10/22.



## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

But I just can't see walking off if comes to it, with only it and a sidearm. If I'm not alone and I certainly plan not to be, than someone else can carry it and ammo for it, but I've learned over the years life doesn't often go as planned. Bugging in or bugging out in vehicle where I can have multiple firearms on hand it's not a worry, but if I had to bugout on foot alone I've always felt it's just too dangerous with our society to rely on a .22lr as your only long gun on hand. People are the greastest danger in this world and have been for sometime. They'll be lots of hungry, thieving, murderous people out there looking at what you've got, wanting it since they don't have it themselves when shtf. I plan around carry my M1A and sidearm for bugging out but even with other tools, trapping,and scavenging, I'll certainly miss the 10/22. And I know I can't carry both and a .22lr sidearm conversion isn't the same precision and range for taking game. If one was to have a .22lr rifle and sidearm, they certainly could carry alot more ammo to feed it than another, larger caliber rifle though.

Do you feel a .22lr long gun is enough protection for bugging out on foot with a sidearm if it comes to it when shtf?


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## The Fark Knight (Nov 16, 2012)

I certainly feel like it would be a great firearm to have for hunting and whatnot. I also like having the option to carry a TON of spare ammo. .22LR is a great round at closer ranges, but I'm not really so sure about a "weapon," though. Center mass would be the fastest target to acquire, but a little slower to bring down a motivated attacker. Especially depending on the clothes/armor they wear. It could take several shots to bring some one down. Seems to me like if you had to engage someone, you would have to be VERY hidden at a close to mid range, so that multiple shots could be placed strategically before you receive return fire. Though I suppose with a little extra training, one could be far more deadly with a .22LR than a man with a .50AE ::rambo::


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

If you were going to depend on it as a defensive weapon, I'd think in terms of a red dot sight and head shots.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

The 22 rim fire is a great fire arm adept at a number of survivalist task, but I think relying on it to put another hostile human down and do so decisively is asking a bit too much from it. Yes it can kill but it wont likely incapacitate a individual whos capable of shooting back fast enough to save your bacon on a consistent basis. Now I will grant you....a shot to the brain bucket is likely to stop any hostile intent pretty damng quick, but I dont think someone is going to hold still that long if I am shooting at them inorder for me to take a head shot. I mean think about the number of folks that trash the 5.56 and AR for being too punney and weak and now compare it to the 22 long rifle.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

It's not that the round can't do damage, but a defensive weapon needs to be able to stop someone or something well before they do you harm. Headshots in the heat of the moment when someone/thing is coming at you and you've got to put them down hard, take aim and make an accurate enough shot, is not as likely as hitting center mass. And .22lr on center mass leaves a lot to be desired. The .22lr has a good reputation as a assassination round, but that's where a person can time and put the shot where it needs to go. A sidearm is only to be used to fight your way back to your long gun in my training and mindset and I just can't see with how dangerous the world is, only having my 10/22 and sidearm.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

If I had children around I'd have a 10/22 for each of 8 or 9 and above I guess. I don't so I only have 2 of them. My grand parents all seemed to have their own 22's though so I have inherited a small group and I seriously like the tub fed semi automatics and no need for magazines - not too mention you can't score a 10/22 magazine for less than $15 and the 25 round magazines are impossible for me to get - they don't unassemble well for CA. I've also obtained, in the last few years, a dedicated upper for my AR that I like very much - hence making another commitment over the 10/22 that makes sense for practice and training. I have so many 22's its silly. Between the hand guns, 1911 kit, AR kit and the long guns there must be more than a dozen. The good part - I can still afford to shoot them.


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## breakingcontact (Mar 25, 2013)

I think a 10/22 is a great SHTF gun. So is a 30/30 or a shotgun. They all have major drawbacks though.

I think if I were to recommend just one to someone it would probably be a shotgun though. Can hunt with it, big or small game. Very effective at close distance. Only downsides are low capacity and short range. As far as capacity goes, if you're encountering a mob, even w an AR you're in trouble. Better off to take your shots and take off. This scenario where people stand and fight is a fantasy. You can only roll the dice so many times. Your enemy doesn't have to be well prepared or well equipped. They just have to be lucky...once. The other downside with a shotgun is range. But even this is exaggerated, you can do 100 yards+ with a shotgun and some practice. At some point the distance makes the enemy nor a threat, that distance will vary w situation. 

With a 10/22, you could dump a 25 round mag and take off I suppose. Taking 2-3 shots with a shotgun would be a lot quicker. Keep them Nikes tied tight!


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

breakingcontact said:


> I think a 10/22 is a great SHTF gun. So is a 30/30 or a shotgun. They all have major drawbacks though.
> 
> I think if I were to recommend just one to someone it would probably be a shotgun though. Can hunt with it, big or small game. Very effective at close distance. Only downsides are low capacity and short range. As far as capacity goes, if you're encountering a mob, even w an AR you're in trouble. Better off to take your shots and take off. This scenario where people stand and fight is a fantasy. You can only roll the dice so many times. Your enemy doesn't have to be well prepared or well equipped. They just have to be lucky...once. The other downside with a shotgun is range. But even this is exaggerated, you can do 100 yards+ with a shotgun and some practice. At some point the distance makes the enemy nor a threat, that distance will vary w situation.
> 
> With a 10/22, you could dump a 25 round mag and take off I suppose. Taking 2-3 shots with a shotgun would be a lot quicker. Keep them Nikes tied tight!


Any .22 rimfire is a great survival weapon, hunting, protecting the crops and chickens, and a GREAT cartridge to train on. Trigger pull, flinching, reloading, breaking point, moving targets, it is a great cartridge but a piss poor human V human weapon.

I agree with almost everything you said "breakingcontact" until you put 30-30 into the mix. GAWD I hate that gun! Haha the most underpowered, slow shooting, chance to fail, iron sighted, contraption invented.

Yes I know it had its hay day, but let us move into the 21st century and get past "grandpa's" ol gun and pick something better.

Your shotgun suggestion was dead on! Even for zombie killing have you ever seen a 00buck round at 100 yards? It covers about a 6 square foot radius with 8x .38 caliber rounds and will make the hoards duck if nothing else. Slugs will knock back a 200lb human at 100 yards and hit them 8 of 10 times. I always suggest this as a FIRST weapon ever purchased for newbies and I carry a Glock .45 and a 870 Remington in my get home bag.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

now the 30/30 is that close to having the sks 7.62x39? because the ammo avail is endless and super duper cheap i find mine to be super consitant and accurate. as for the 10/22 i love that gun as a start piece, and i think itd be very effective for most basic situations, and great if you have nothing else.
i just bought my 4th 10/22 for 99 bux ( i bought it for training new gun people), included a true glo still in the package! yay! i love my gun club! I have 2 with true glos one with tasco scope and one with iron sights. i love the 10/22. my plan is to arm others who may not be armed in my evac group should i need impromptu grouping to leave. i love that a handfull of ammo goes a very long way with my 10/22s

i must admit i would have a hard time choosing my sks, my ar or the 10/22.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

shotlady said:


> now the 30/30 is that close to having the sks 7.62x39? because the ammo avail is endless and super duper cheap i find mine to be super consitant and accurate. as for the 10/22 i love that gun as a start piece, and i think itd be very effective for most basic situations, and great if you have nothing else.
> i just bought my 4th 10/22 for 99 bux ( i bought it for training new gun people), included a true glo still in the package! yay! i love my gun club! I have 2 with true glos one with tasco scope and one with iron sights. i love the 10/22. my plan is to arm others who may not be armed in my evac group should i need impromptu grouping to leave. i love that a handfull of ammo goes a very long way with my 10/22s
> 
> i must admit i would have a hard time choosing my sks, my ar or the 10/22.


Haha point taken but my SKS/AK can shoot 20 and 30 round clips in the time the 30-30 moron is jacking his 6th round and thinking "OMG I need to reload"

Good point about the 10-22, I actually do not own one opting for the bolt actions remingtons and CZ's.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

and you know for the price of the 10/22s they are cheap to bury, you know ifn you felt that way. my 410 is a non issue i dont like it, so itll end up as surplus last resort something to bury... mean ole gun i wont go looking for it either lol


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I have not guns buried, why would think such a thing.... points...


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

lol me neither.


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## breakingcontact (Mar 25, 2013)

Guilty as charged on the 30-30. I think I was just using that as an example of a hunting gun, pressed into SHTF duty.

Now...if our side arm were to become a 22 pistol, I vote shotgun hands down. Speaking of 10/22...can we through the charger model into the mix?


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## felixx (May 14, 2013)

My 10/22 td goes most places with me.
500rd will feed my family for a while, I plan to suppress her soon, all my.22s have supressors on em, legal here.

My suppressed .223 is nice n quiet too


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## Go2ndAmend (Apr 5, 2013)

Personally, I am a huge fan of the 10-22. Deadly accurate, extremely reliable, high-capacity, no recoil, portable and swift to bring to action. What's not to like? Yes, it is only a lowly .22, but I wouldn't feel under gunned in all but the most extreme circumstances. (Think masses of invaders attacking in force.) I have shot to great effect all manner of domestic and wild animals with mine up to several hundred pounds. Shot placement is more crutial than with a larger caliber weapon, but volume of fire into the chest region of any animal has something to be said for it also. It is also a great training gun for those with less experience or those who are recoil shy. 4 well trained kids under 12 years old armed with 10/22's would provide far better security than one man with a 30-06. 4 kids with 10/22's and an adult with a 30-06 would be a potent force.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

.22lr is fine for plinking and squirrels but anyone who uses it for a defensive weapon against a human IMO is nuts. Minimum handgun round is .380 and minimum rifle round is .223. Methinks. Save the 22's for squirrels and frogs.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

felixx said:


> My 10/22 td goes most places with me.
> 500rd will feed my family for a while, I plan to suppress her soon, all my.22s have supressors on em, legal here.
> 
> My suppressed .223 is nice n quiet too


Interesting, where is "here"?


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Go2ndAmend said:


> Personally, I am a huge fan of the 10-22. Deadly accurate, extremely reliable, high-capacity, no recoil, portable and swift to bring to action. What's not to like? Yes, it is only a lowly .22, but I wouldn't feel under gunned in all but the most extreme circumstances. (Think masses of invaders attacking in force.) I have shot to great effect all manner of domestic and wild animals with mine up to several hundred pounds. Shot placement is more crutial than with a larger caliber weapon, but volume of fire into the chest region of any animal has something to be said for it also. It is also a great training gun for those with less experience or those who are recoil shy. 4 well trained kids under 12 years old armed with 10/22's would provide far better security than one man with a 30-06. 4 kids with 10/22's and an adult with a 30-06 would be a potent force.


I can't say I agree with you on a lot of that, especially the end part about the 4 well trained 12 year olds with 10/22's and 1 adult with a .30-06 being a potent force. The way I see it 1 adult, a capable shot and cold heart could simply shoot the 1 adult when their a target of opportunity with a little patiences, and when the 4 kids fall apart mentally, as regardless their still kids, and are standing in the open, crowded around, looking at the dead adult lying around the ground, crying, they pick them off like carvival shooting gallery targets fast and easy.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

CSI-tech, While I tend to agree on a personal level that a 22RF is no weapon for self defense there are always exceptions. 
No matter what gun you have it is better that the one you left at home if you need a gun.
Beware the man who only has one gun - he probably knows how to use it.
I have a brother who used to shoot the tops of squirrel heads - snap shooting at unreasonable distances. If someone can shoot that well with a 22 it could be effective as a defense weapon.


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## Nathan Jefferson (May 11, 2013)

Valid points both ways. What seals the deal for me comes down to cover vs. concealment. 

If you pretend for a minute that a .22lr will stop someone as quickly as a .223 or even a .308/.30-06, what you don't imagine away is the rounds ability to penetrate cover. I've seen countless bulk .22lr bounce off plywood and other boards hat were .5 inches thick and sometimes thinner. Most .22lr (i'd say all but I'm sure someone knows a round somewhere that might be able to...) won't make it through a solid wood door, or a car door, or a standard house wall (or heavy clothing/gear!!!), while all of the above centerfire rounds will go right through and be deadly on the other side. 

If a .22lr is all you have, or all you can afford to feed then it's the best gun for you. If you can get something with more power, do it. All the training in the world won't make the round penetrate. 

But what do I know, my ideal tactic to win a gunfight is to run away as fast as I can. Seriously.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Nathan Jefferson said:


> Valid points both ways. What seals the deal for me comes down to cover vs. concealment.
> 
> If you pretend for a minute that a .22lr will stop someone as quickly as a .223 or even a .308/.30-06, what you don't imagine away is the rounds ability to penetrate cover. I've seen countless bulk .22lr bounce off plywood and other boards hat were .5 inches thick and sometimes thinner. Most .22lr (i'd say all but I'm sure someone knows a round somewhere that might be able to...) won't make it through a solid wood door, or a car door, or a standard house wall (or heavy clothing/gear!!!), while all of the above centerfire rounds will go right through and be deadly on the other side.
> 
> ...


If your plan is to run away as fast as possible and that is not a bad plan for longevity, then the 10/20 may be the ideal gun, with large capacity clips it would be ideal for suppressive fire to give you a chance to get away, about the only caliber you could carry enough ammo for such a task. One reason I would consider carrying a PS-90 with 50 rnd clips.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Think I would rather have a 10-22 than any pistol. In a bugout situation all you should be tryin' to do is break contact anyway.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Ok, to be clear I don't feel a .22 rimfire is anywhere near a good PVP weapon.

That being said I think most have a wrong impression of combat after SHTF. IF you have a well coordinated defense plan with OP's, overlapping fields of fire and some firepower in those fields, any attacking marauder worth his salt will simply pass you by. 

Life is risk vs. reward and losing XX pirates (his men) to take a well defended position is probably not worth the effort. More than likely they will move on to the JW's and Quakers and other non prepper types for easier spoils. In that case a couple of armed teenagers with .22's and shoot to kill orders would deflect a major attack before it happens.

We all think that someone outside will risk life and limb to get what we have inside and that is not logical. Except for the most ruthless at heart they will be peeing their pants and running away from our defensive fire long before we can scramble all our available forces.


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## felixx (May 14, 2013)

Montana Rancher said:


> Interesting, where is "here"?


New Zealand.
We cannot easily own handguns, but we can suppress anything. My supressors come from Gunworks - Home
although the one on my .223 is this one:
http://sub-silentsuppressors.com/?s=stevens&submit.x=-1291&submit.y=-123

Im not the original owner, but she is quiet, very quiet


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I actually prefer my 3006 but if someone is armored then the 358 comes out. I have one gun that shoots 7,65x39 but I can't trust it to hit a baseball at 100 yards. I have several pistols that will do that with the minimum caliber being 357. I also have the four or so 22s but they are camp meat guns and not defens weapons. The best defense weapons are my shotguns. I am going to fit my goose gun with a diverter so if two or more are close together I can take them all out with one shot. (maybe) 
honestly I am a fair shot with my rifles and pistols. The rifles are good enough to keep me well within an inch at 100 yards and my pistols are more accurate than I am but keeping groups inside an inch at twenty-five yards is doable on a good day. I do normally shot the pistols off-hand but the rifles I shoot from a rest.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

huh, your 762x39 not accurate? have you taken it to a smith? i love my sks accuracy. i havent shot it more than 200 yrds. I have been challenging my self to not count on having a rifle and im nailing with my m&p and fs92 ( both 9mm) at 150 yrds. just to change up my skills. its pretty cool. the guys at the rifle range laugh. but you know what they will be some of the first people hiding behind my skirt when their fancy scope breaks. hahaha!


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Shotlady, I don't consider a rifle accurate unless it will consistantly produce sub MOA groups. All of my centerfire rifles do that except the SKS. I only bought them (2 of them) because they were cheap and so was the ammo. I got the two guns and a case of ammo for $100 plus tax. I have begun to convert one to 357 Maximum and I will keep the "more accurate" of the two until I use up all the ammo. Then I will decide whether I want to sell it or modify it for better accuracy.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

I think of rifles like I think about tools. Each one can perform a set of functions, but other tools work better in a different situation.

Ruger 10/22s are great small game guns. They also have 25 round mags so you can poke a lot of little holes in something in a hurry if you need to. They will get you food and protect you in a pinch. Cheap to practice with, easy to carry and maintain, very accurate, and as reliable as a stove.

If I am shooting at something that can shoot back, however, I want as much firepower as I can have. I prefer .308 or 30-06 in those instances.

If I am hoofing it, .223 and 12 gauge will be my choices - self-defense and food gathering.

If it is within rock-throwing distances, give me a 12 gauge and slugs or sabots, and a bandoleer of buckshot, and I'm good....


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