# SHTF - Surviving the first 18 months



## Maine-Marine

I think the vast majority of people will die during the first 12 months.

people out of meds or coming off of drugs
murdered for food
starvation
suicide
disease due to dead bodies

I think gangs/looters/criminals will slowly be killed as they raid places where people are prepared and they run into people they just should not mess with

Up north will be worse for winter dies offs but it will be harder down south for motorcycle gangs and other bad folks

you need to be prepared to defend your family

you have to be ready to meet force with overwhelming response or if you know the bad folks are coming... take it to them

After SHTF is not the time to try to get food.
After SHTF is not the time to figure out water supply issues
After SHTF is not the time to get extra meds
After SHTF is not the time for running around like crazy gathering supplies

You never know when the day before is the day before...


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## RedLion

I have read as much as 90% of the population could/would die in the first year after the SHTF. I believe that figure to be close if you consider factors. Disease from lack of sanitation, violence, lack of medical care with so many dependent on meds, lack of clean water, malnutrition/starvation, exposure to inclement weather and you would have your share of suicides as well.


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## Robie

One misconception people have when "gangs" is mentioned is they visualize a group of low-lifes causing problems.

When your children are starving or need water, a gang could consist of a group of guys that normally wear suits everyday, who have decided they need to take matters into their own hands. A few may own firearms and one has a pickup and off they go...getting whatever they need to keep their families alive.

Self preservation takes over the mindset. It's animal instinct and is present in everyone.


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## Camel923

A grim situation indeed. But hey, they know who is wining biggest looser and what the Kardashians are up to until it hits. I prepare in hopes that this type of situation never occurs. But I prep for it just the same. Everyone else has a chance to consider this too. They ignore it at their own risk. Some people with severe medical, mental problems will not make it through no fault of their own. If any semblance of society remains around here, firing up the old coke ovens to dispose of bodies would be a start. Why dig? Then there are the abandoned mine shafts which would entomb a lot of bodies. JMHO.


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## Tennessee

MM I’m surprise you have enough energy to get out of bed in the morning after you read all your gloom and doom you write about.

Why worry about the majority of people dying? I spend all my energy taking care of my family needs and enjoying life. The best we can do is try to save ourselves and enjoying the lives we have. This isn’t a dress rehearsal we only get one life.

In your five things that you feel will kill most folk I can only see one that would affect me and my family is “murdered for food” And I have plans in place to limit that too.

As for a living in the south and the bad folks/biker gangs, my suggestion is you need to get out more.


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## RedLion

Tennessee said:


> MM I'm surprise you have enough energy to get out of bed in the morning after you read all your gloom and doom you write about.
> 
> Why worry about the majority of people dying? I spend all my energy taking care of my family needs and enjoying life. The best we can do is try to save ourselves and enjoying the lives we have. This isn't a dress rehearsal we only get one life.
> 
> In your five things that you feel will kill most folk I can only see one that would affect me and my family is "murdered for food" And I have plans in place to limit that too.
> 
> As for a living in the south and the bad folks/biker gangs, my suggestion is you need to get out more.


Me thinks that he was just offering up opinion to start his thread. I agree with him for the most part. You can be the target of violence for much more than just you food


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## Tennessee

RedLion said:


> Me thinks that he was just offering up opinion to start his thread. I agree with him for the most part. You can be the target of violence for much more than just you food


I sorry i must have the shinny side in.


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## RedLion

Tennessee said:


> I sorry i must have the shinny side in.


So you are set in your ways?


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## Tennessee

I guess so. I must be one of those people you just can't help.


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## RedLion

Tennessee said:


> I guess so. I must be one of those people you just can't help.


Is it the biker gang reference that has got you stoked?


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## Tennessee

Well DR. Lion I think it was the south and the bad folks but i can't be sure since i ride a Harley.


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## RedLion

Tennessee said:


> Well DR. Lion I think it was the south and the bad folks but i can't be sure since i ride a Harley.
> 
> View attachment 19450


Lol. I am no MD, but I do work with mentally ill/chemically dependent homeless veterans. Rest assured I can attest that there are plenty of bad folks throughout the country. Enough for everyone to have to play with if things go bad.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

bad water alone will do many people in.....


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## Maine-Marine

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> bad water alone will do many people in.....


I think lead poisoning will be the big "doer inner"


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## mickbear

Maine-Marine said:


> I think the vast majority of people will die during the first 12 months.
> 
> people out of meds or coming off of drugs
> murdered for food
> starvation
> suicide
> disease due to dead bodies
> 
> I think gangs/looters/criminals will slowly be killed as they raid places where people are prepared and they run into people they just should not mess with
> 
> Up north will be worse for winter dies offs but it will be harder down south for motorcycle gangs and other bad folks
> 
> you need to be prepared to defend your family
> 
> you have to be ready to meet force with overwhelming response or if you know the bad folks are coming... take it to them
> 
> After SHTF is not the time to try to get food.
> After SHTF is not the time to figure out water supply issues
> After SHTF is not the time to get extra meds
> After SHTF is not the time for running around like crazy gathering supplies
> 
> You never know when the day before is the day before...


kinda lost me on that one,care to explain?


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## SOCOM42

RedLion said:


> I have read as much as 90% of the population could/would die in the first year after the SHTF. I believe that figure to be close if you consider factors. Disease from lack of sanitation, violence, lack of medical care with so many dependent on meds, lack of clean water, malnutrition/starvation, exposure to inclement weather and you would have your share of suicides as well.


The figure that I read in gov. papers is 145 million in the first year.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

so you think more people will be shot than die of dysentery? are you aware that around 1/2 million people die yearly worldwide from dysentery now..... you think all them wandering city folk out of water after 3 days won't guzzle down the first "looks fine" water they see? and lack of sanitation will cause it to spread... but if you think everyone will die in shootouts (possibly over clean water) who am I to argue?


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## RedLion

SOCOM42 said:


> The figure that I read in gov. papers is 145 million in the first year.


No offense, but when has the govt been right about anything? Likely some gov stooge in FEMA looking to make himself and the agency look better with a number attempting to justify how valuable FEMA is/could be thus "give us more $." How many children alone would perish just due to parental incompetence and being unprepared.


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## Maine-Marine

mickbear said:


> kinda lost me on that one,care to explain?


Winter BURR, cold freezing, roads un-drive-able.. no heat people die...

down south lots of open roads, shade trees and motorcycle gangs


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## goodinblack

All people with motorcycles are evil

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## SOCOM42

RedLion said:


> No offense, but when has the govt been right about anything? Likely some gov stooge in FEMA looking to make himself and the agency look better with a number attempting to justify how valuable FEMA is/could be thus "give us more $." How many children alone would perish just due to parental incompetence and being unprepared.


I am not arguing the point, your figure I think is closer, most surly that number in the big cities if not even higher there.

The greatest chance for survival will be in rural areas and that would be 50/50.

The cities will be cesspools of disease of every kind from all the rotting bodies, who would bother burying them?

As far as winter here at my home, post SHTF, I have a Fall back shelter other than the bunker that takes very little to heat, wood wise.

So, for the coldest months it would be utilized.

Normally it takes five cord of wood to heat the home, the shelter, 3/4 of a cord for the winter.


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## Illini Warrior

SOCOM42 said:


> I am not arguing the point, your figure I think is closer, most surly that number in the big cities if not even higher there.
> 
> The greatest chance for survival will be in rural areas and that would be 50/50.
> 
> The cities will be cesspools of disease of every kind from all the rotting bodies, who would bother burying them?
> 
> As far as winter here at my home, post SHTF, I have a Fall back shelter other than the bunker that takes very little to heat, wood wise.
> 
> So, for the coldest months it would be utilized.
> 
> Normally it takes five cord of wood to heat the home, the shelter, 3/4 of a cord for the winter.


under what kind of SHTF? .... it makes a huge difference .... any resources available will go to the cities to keep them going ....

during the Great Depression the rural areas emptied out - everyone moved into the cities for any possible job and the little relief that was available .... the rural population in percentage hasn't been higher since .... the WW2 years moved the population even more - draftees never went home and war factory jobs replaced farming ....


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## SittingElf

Just like cars...most current motorcycles won't run after an EMP or CME event.....and most MC gang members are too damn fat and lazy to walk!


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## Maine-Marine

Illini Warrior said:


> under what kind of SHTF? .... it makes a huge difference .... any resources available will go to the cities to keep them going ....
> 
> during the Great Depression the rural areas emptied out - everyone moved into the cities for any possible job and the little relief that was available .... the rural population in percentage hasn't been higher since .... the WW2 years moved the population even more - draftees never went home and war factory jobs replaced farming ....


The moving to the cities will NEVER happen again!!!!! there are no jobs

the government and people are different today then in 1930's

depending on the even what will happen is that truckers will REFUSE to drive to big cities... think about it honestly, look at the moral make up of the people then and now...

city folk will be screwed 1930 we had 13,000,000 people today we have 310,000,000


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## NotTooProudToHide

The odds of a SHTF event where services are totally suspended with anarchy in the streets lasting multiple months is extremely low in my opinion. I'm not saying it couldn't happen I'm just saying that its unlikely. What I do think its likely would be something short term and localized like post New Orleans Katrina or LA/San Fransisco post massive earthquake. The geographic size of the United States and the distribution of population alone make it difficult to knock everything out for everybody not to mention that in this day in age while it might take a while to mobilize relief eventually will come.

That being said should we "beat the odds" and the big one hits where everybody is screwed I believe the model of society in the History Channel's "After Armageddon" is how things would eventually wind up. Society would go back to how it was in the 1800's where things where centered more around local governments and people would gather and form small towns. Things would change for sure and while some people would die I don't foresee the massive loss of life outside of the big cities.


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## Real Old Man

NotTooProudToHide said:


> The odds of a SHTF event where services are totally suspended with anarchy in the streets lasting multiple months is extremely low in my opinion. I'm not saying it couldn't happen I'm just saying that its unlikely. What I do think its likely would be something short term and localized like post New Orleans Katrina or LA/San Fransisco post massive earthquake. The geographic size of the United States and the distribution of population alone make it difficult to knock everything out for everybody not to mention that in this day in age while it might take a while to mobilize relief eventually will come.
> 
> That being said should we "beat the odds" and the big one hits where everybody is screwed I believe the model of society in the History Channel's "After Armageddon" is how things would eventually wind up. Society would go back to how it was in the 1800's where things where centered more around local governments and people would gather and form small towns. Things would change for sure and while some people would die I don't foresee the massive loss of life outside of the big cities.


Take a short survey and look at what's in your neighborhood.


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## 1skrewsloose

Looks like I'm in the percent who will be gone. I've got 4 months food and fuel for 3. Not sure I want to be around after that. Someone else can re-populate the earth.


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## Robie

NotTooProudToHide said:


> The odds of a SHTF event where services are totally suspended with anarchy in the streets lasting multiple months is extremely low in my opinion. I'm not saying it couldn't happen I'm just saying that its unlikely. What I do think its likely would be something short term and localized like post New Orleans Katrina or LA/San Fransisco post massive earthquake. The geographic size of the United States and the distribution of population alone make it difficult to knock everything out for everybody not to mention that in this day in age while it might take a while to mobilize relief eventually will come.
> 
> That being said should we "beat the odds" and the big one hits where everybody is screwed I believe the model of society in the History Channel's "After Armageddon" is how things would eventually wind up. Society would go back to how it was in the 1800's where things where centered more around local governments and people would gather and form small towns. Things would change for sure and while some people would die I don't foresee the massive loss of life outside of the big cities.


"Society is nine meals away from anarchy"


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## Real Old Man

1skrewsloose said:


> Looks like I'm in the percent who will be gone. I've got 4 months food and fuel for 3. Not sure I want to be around after that. Someone else can re-populate the earth.


Chances are you are better off than you think.

A year of preps is worthless if you have no local infrastructure (communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security just to name a few) on which to build. I can't think of one single individual (other than John Rourke) that can keep theirs safe and sound


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## inceptor

Real Old Man said:


> I can't think of one single individual (other than John Rourke) that can keep theirs safe and sound


Now there's a name I had nearly forgotten.


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## A Watchman

SittingElf said:


> Just like cars...most current motorcycles won't run after an EMP or CME event.....and most MC gang members are too damn fat and lazy to walk!


Elf ....... did ya miss the Mad Max movies?


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## Mad Trapper

Illini Warrior said:


> under what kind of SHTF? .... it makes a huge difference .... any resources available will go to the cities to keep them going ....
> 
> during the Great Depression the rural areas emptied out - everyone moved into the cities for any possible job and the little relief that was available .... the rural population in percentage hasn't been higher since .... the WW2 years moved the population even more - draftees never went home and war factory jobs replaced farming ....


*Nope!* My grandparents raised 13 children on a farm during the great depression. They were never hungry nor needing work. Pre-electricity, my uncle made a water wheel hooked to a truck 6V gennie for lights that were not kero. Grandpa tilled and harvested with two draft horses. Water was from two springs high above that gravity fed cistrens 24/7. Cows pigs sheep chickens ducks rabbits. Hunting fishing and trapping. Fur prices were good back then. Always had guns, rifles shotguns at hand, kids got whoop ass if they touched them until they started hunting. They did not take any FDR handouts nor did they need them.

Grandpa would help those in need, work for food. One time a city criminal tried to rob, he was beat into the dirt, then allowed to crawl back to the city


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## bigwheel

Maine-Marine said:


> I think the vast majority of people will die during the first 12 months.
> 
> people out of meds or coming off of drugs
> murdered for food
> starvation
> suicide
> disease due to dead bodies
> 
> I think gangs/looters/criminals will slowly be killed as they raid places where people are prepared and they run into people they just should not mess with
> 
> Up north will be worse for winter dies offs but it will be harder down south for motorcycle gangs and other bad folks
> 
> you need to be prepared to defend your family
> 
> you have to be ready to meet force with overwhelming response or if you know the bad folks are coming... take it to them
> 
> After SHTF is not the time to try to get food.
> After SHTF is not the time to figure out water supply issues
> After SHTF is not the time to get extra meds
> After SHTF is not the time for running around like crazy gathering supplies
> 
> You never know when the day before is the day before...


Seems like some invent imaginary worlds in their heads and insist on moving in. We are intent to last till the ammo runs out..saving the last five for ourselves. That cover us..3 cats and one dog. They will find our shooting irons hot and empty. Make that six maybe. Never made any claims to being a math major.


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## A Watchman

Maine-Marine said:


> I think the vast majority of people will die during the first 12 months.
> 
> Up north will be worse for winter dies offs but it will be harder down south for motorcycle gangs and other bad folks.





Maine-Marine said:


> down south lots of open roads, shade trees and motorcycle gangs


MM, I think the landscape of survivors is significantly changed in 6 months ...... should a SHTF event befall us.

And ....... you are right about the evils and perils down here in the south, in addition to open roads, shade trees and motorcycles we also have Mexcans, Banditos, Cajuns, ********, Dope Smokers, Meth Heads, and last but most certainly not least ........ those pesky Snowbirds from up north (ever heard of anyone retiring and moving up north?)


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## Illini Warrior

Mad Trapper said:


> *Nope!* My grandparents raised 13 children on a farm during the great depression. They were never hungry nor needing work. Pre-electricity, my uncle made a water wheel hooked to a truck 6V gennie for lights that were not kero. Grandpa tilled and harvested with two draft horses. Water was from two springs high above that gravity fed cistrens 24/7. Cows pigs sheep chickens ducks rabbits. Hunting fishing and trapping. Fur prices were good back then. Always had guns, rifles shotguns at hand, kids got whoop ass if they touched them until they started hunting. They did not take any FDR handouts nor did they need them.
> 
> Grandpa would help those in need, work for food. One time a city criminal tried to rob, he was beat into the dirt, then allowed to crawl back to the city


so did both sides of my family - but - facts are facts - people abandoned the rural life during the depression and WW2 and became urban dwellers - still happening every day even today .... there's totally deserted former rural communities all over the US - entire counties without a single incorporated town anymore ....

watch The River with Mel Gibson - modern version of what happened in the rural depression days ...


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## Mad Trapper

Illini Warrior said:


> so did both sides of my family - but - facts are facts - people abandoned the rural life during the depression and WW2 and became urban dwellers - still happening every day even today .... there's totally deserted former rural communities all over the US - entire counties without a single incorporated town anymore ....
> 
> watch The River with Mel Gibson - modern version of what happened in the rural depression days ...


We still have the grandparents farm, all of it , none sold to development nor agri-bizz. Aunt/Cousin has it now. I'm on the farm my parents brought when they married, I own it and will live and die here. I can grow and raise enough to live on. I don't care if the supermarkets go dry.


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## bigwheel

My Mama picked Cotton one time. She said she made a deal with the Lord..(not that deal is a good plan by any means)...she said about noon if He would let her escape the cotton patch alive by quitting time..she would promise never to try it again. So next day she went and got a job at the dime store. Last cotton she ever picked. Funny how that works huh? The Lord works in mysterious ways..His Wonder's to behold.


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## SOCOM42

1skrewsloose said:


> Looks like I'm in the percent who will be gone. I've got 4 months food and fuel for 3. Not sure I want to be around after that. Someone else can re-populate the earth.


If you hunker down in place, you can almost double your survival time with what you have.

It won't be fun but you can survive on a lot less than you think.

Use you time during a crisis to forage more food when it is safe to do.

After 3 months things will have cleared out a LOT of people.


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## inceptor

A Watchman said:


> MM, I think the landscape of survivors is significantly changed in 6 months ...... should a SHTF event befall us.
> 
> And ....... you are right about the evils and perils down here in the south, in addition to open roads, shade trees and motorcycles we also have Mexcans, Banditos, Cajuns, ********, Dope Smokers, Meth Heads, and last but most certainly not least ........ those pesky Snowbirds from up north (ever heard of anyone retiring and moving up north?)


Fortunately they don't have any of that up north.


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## dwight55

SOCOM42 said:


> If you hunker down in place, you can almost double your survival time with what you have.
> 
> It won't be fun but you can survive on a lot less than you think.
> 
> Use you time during a crisis to forage more food when it is safe to do.
> 
> After 3 months things will have cleared out a LOT of people.


What you said is very true about survival and foraging, . . . but instead of 3 months, . . . I'm thinking that it will be after the first winter, . . . lots of starvation, disease, sickness, freezing to death, etc., . . . most folks I'm thinking could somehow survive a summer, . . . maybe even through the fall, . . . but winter, especially above the Ohio River line, . . . and you will see bodies stacked up like cord wood, . . . IMHO.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## bigwheel

Lot of meth heads in the South. Meth and Mountain Dew is what causes all the Tennesee folks to have rotten teeth.


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## Mad Trapper

Up "North"?

Ant and the Grasshopper.

2-3 years of dry wood laid up, root cellar full, canning racks full, hard cider brewing. Life is easier now, hunt, ice fish, trap. Fix those things that have been waiting, hope not the snowshoes. Load up the rounds for the guns. Read some good educational material. If snow is not too deep drop some trees for firewood and lumber, mill some if you can move the logs. If you are cold, you are not working hard enough. Tan the hides. Kids make snow forts, sled/ski, rather than being vidiots

The cold will winnow out the vermin fast, but if you've lived with it and ready, winter can be a wonderful time.

I'd move/retire farther north than south.

P.S. Only been to Florida once, Daytona 500. We crossed the state border and got the comment "You Yankees bring all this cold weather with ya?" ( ~40s oF). We replied "This is summer!, we just came from 3 ft snow,- 10 oF, and the trucks heater is broke!"


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## Moonshinedave

A friend and I have this discussion often, people today aren't able to fight off germs and such. How many, when the least little thing happens runs to the doctor to get pumped full of antibiotics? This,IMO has allowed our bodies to become weak in aspect of fighting off minor medical problems. If things turn bad,I forsee this killing many of us.


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## Maine-Marine

Real Old Man said:


> Chances are you are better off than you think.
> 
> A year of preps is worthless if you have no local infrastructure (communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security just to name a few) on which to build. I can't think of one single individual (other than John Rourke) that can keep theirs safe and sound


A year of preps is worthless.... lol...

actually if you have a year of preps and an EMP wipes everything out... you are in much better shape then with a dollar collapse...

an EMP would limit the number of people that are showing up at your door.
Medical...Many many people go years and years without a visit to a hospital

SO NO SIR.. I will take a year of preps with no communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security over having the government coming to HELP me out any day


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## Maine-Marine

dwight55 said:


> What you said is very true about survival and foraging, . . . but instead of 3 months, . . . I'm thinking that it will be after the first winter, . . . lots of starvation, disease, sickness, freezing to death, etc., . . . most folks I'm thinking could somehow survive a summer, . . . maybe even through the fall, . . . but winter, especially above the Ohio River line, . . . and you will see bodies stacked up like cord wood, . . . IMHO.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


Driving into work, I see maybe 2 houses with wood piles...SHTF and winter time will be a bad time to figure out how to replace gas/oil/electric


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## 8301

goodinblack said:


> All people with motorcycles are evil
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Then I am evil,,, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night so that makes me smart too.


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## 8301

SOCOM42 said:


> Normally it takes five cord of wood to heat the home, the shelter, 3/4 of a cord for the winter.


2 cords of wood gets me through a cold winter,,,, but the summer heat is brutal.


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## Real Old Man

Maine-Marine said:


> A year of preps is worthless.... lol...
> 
> actually if you have a year of preps and an EMP wipes everything out... you are in much better shape then with a dollar collapse...
> 
> an EMP would limit the number of people that are showing up at your door.
> Medical...Many many people go years and years without a visit to a hospital
> 
> SO NO SIR.. I will take a year of preps with no communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security over having the government coming to HELP me out any day


You believe in the go it alone approach and I don't. That's abundantly clear. Hope everything works out for you.

And I never said a thing about any government helping folks out.


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## Tennessee

bigwheel said:


> Lot of meth heads in the South. Meth and Mountain Dew is what causes all the Tennesee folks to have rotten teeth.


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## Maine-Marine

Real Old Man said:


> You believe in the go it alone approach and I don't. That's abundantly clear. Hope everything works out for you.
> 
> And I never said a thing about any government helping folks out.


Who said anything about go it alone... I have friends...

You said


Real Old Man said:


> A year of preps is *worthless* if you have no local infrastructure (communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security just to name a few) on which to build. I can't think of one single individual (other than John Rourke) that can keep theirs safe and sound


I think I would rate this the worst post of the year... having a year of preps would be fantastic in the event of an EMP, Pandemic, etc... and if we lost all those things (communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security) People will be out trying to find food.

Not sure how you thinking works but You can last longer without communications, transportation, medical, law enforcement/security then you can without water or food.

Serious - how do you defend being against having a year of preps..or making it seem, like communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security is more important.

I do find it funny that you toss in food production right after saying a year of preps is worthless


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## RedLion

NotTooProudToHide said:


> The odds of a SHTF event where services are totally suspended with anarchy in the streets lasting multiple months is extremely low in my opinion. I'm not saying it couldn't happen I'm just saying that its unlikely. What I do think its likely would be something short term and localized like post New Orleans Katrina or LA/San Fransisco post massive earthquake. The geographic size of the United States and the distribution of population alone make it difficult to knock everything out for everybody not to mention that in this day in age while it might take a while to mobilize relief eventually will come.
> 
> That being said should we "beat the odds" and the big one hits where everybody is screwed I believe the model of society in the History Channel's "After Armageddon" is how things would eventually wind up. Society would go back to how it was in the 1800's where things where centered more around local governments and people would gather and form small towns. Things would change for sure and while some people would die I don't foresee the massive loss of life outside of the big cities.


Maybe, maybe not. If we were talking 20-30 years ago, I would likely agree. I think that a combo of a strong sense of "me first" among so many, lack of preparing, lack of self-reliance, lack of empathy and need for immediate gratification would lead to disaster if you simply cut off people's income. An economic collapse would still leave services possible to operate, but likely unable to do so for very long. Resources would run out, people would not work for free and violence/destruction would occur.


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## RedLion

Mad Trapper said:


> Up "North"?
> 
> Ant and the Grasshopper.
> 
> 2-3 years of dry wood laid up, root cellar full, canning racks full, hard cider brewing. Life is easier now, hunt, ice fish, trap. Fix those things that have been waiting, hope not the snowshoes. Load up the rounds for the guns. Read some good educational material. If snow is not too deep drop some trees for firewood and lumber, mill some if you can move the logs. If you are cold, you are not working hard enough. Tan the hides. Kids make snow forts, sled/ski, rather than being vidiots
> 
> The cold will winnow out the vermin fast, but if you've lived with it and ready, winter can be a wonderful time.
> 
> I'd move/retire farther north than south.
> 
> P.S. Only been to Florida once, Daytona 500. We crossed the state border and got the comment "You Yankees bring all this cold weather with ya?" ( ~40s oF). We replied "This is summer!, we just came from 3 ft snow,- 10 oF, and the trucks heater is broke!"


I keep 5 cords of wood on hand to burn in my wood stoves at all times. Winter would be brutal for those unprepared and would cause a large die off just due to exposure and starvation. With that said, places like MN have an abundance of natural resources (water, fish, game and wood to burn) and not a very large overall population to boot.


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## SGT E

Maine-Marine said:


> Winter BURR, cold freezing, roads un-drive-able.. no heat people die...
> 
> down south lots of open roads, shade trees and motorcycle gangs


Picturing people on Harley's that have been converted to bike pedals.....?


----------



## Kolacky

I think cold and starvation will be a harsh reality, if the grid is down. And there are soooo many people dependent on medications for blood pressure, diabetes, chelesterol, etc. Some of this will self correct, when people have to get up and work for their food and warmth. But some will die. Some will die from the extra work, due to bad hearts, etc. I'd rather be North, than South, just for the fact that people don't move North on purpose most times. Just MHO.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Maine-Marine said:


> Who said anything about go it alone... I have friends...
> 
> You said
> 
> I think I would rate this the worst post of the year... having a year of preps would be fantastic in the event of an EMP, Pandemic, etc... and if we lost all those things (communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security) People will be out trying to find food.
> 
> Not sure how you thinking works but You can last longer without communications, transportation, medical, law enforcement/security then you can without water or food.
> 
> Serious - how do you defend being against having a year of preps..or making it seem, like communications, transportation, food production, medical, law enforcement/security is more important.
> 
> I do find it funny that you toss in food production right after saying a year of preps is worthless


He did say at the end of the post that *No single individual can keep it safe* I agree with that.. and even you said you have friends to help..


----------



## Maine-Marine

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> He did say at the end of the post that *No single individual can keep it safe* I agree with that.. and even you said you have friends to help..


and he said having a year of preps was worthless....


----------



## dwight55

I will somewhat disagree with the statement "no one person can stay safe".

Indefinitely, . . . ???, . . . yeah, you are probably right.

For 6 months or maybe a year, . . . I think it can be done, . . . it depends upon the equipment, ingenuity, and mindset of the individual.

Laying low, . . . staying "invisible", . . . not taking chances, . . . combined with a hand or two from a guardian angel, . . . yeah.

My "plan" is not to try to do it alone, . . . but I've done so much in my life all alone, . . . I've come to accept it as my "normal", . . . and am assuming that I may have to do that again then.

But, . . . I hope I don't have to.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

smoke from cooking or heating, worn trails, melted snow on a roof, foot prints etc.. can all give away your location. unless you live in a deep bunker, you gotta sleep sometime... and unless you have other bodies to do a 24-7 watch, it is just a matter of time..


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Maine-Marine said:


> and he said having a year of preps was worthless....


they are only worth anything as long as you can protect them..... how much sleep does an individual need for the first 3 weeks of a mass exodus of starving looters? every building is going to be ransacked... unless you live in a bunker, you had better be ready for some lethal sleep deprivation... you are instantly outnumbered by any group of 2 or more.... and if it's 3.. you are flanked....


----------



## Maine-Marine

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> they are only worth anything as long as you can protect them..... how much sleep does an individual need for the first 3 weeks of a mass exodus of starving looters? every building is going to be ransacked... unless you live in a bunker, you had better be ready for some lethal sleep deprivation... you are instantly outnumbered by any group of 2 or more.... and if it's 3.. you are flanked....


2 thoughts

1. so if you can not DEFEND it they way YOU think it needs to be defended - we should just say F it and not prep

2. Do you plan on staying awake 24 hours a day- I dont... I plan on having things that will wake me up and also i plan on making it harder for people to get to me. I do not live in a large city and in fact I am on a back road.... I do not leave my doors unlocked

Some of you guys freaking amaze me.... come SHTF I have to wonder if a few of you are going to just say screw it and off yourself...

I grew up in no where Maine. If things get really really really bad I will leave my house and head into the woods... but when I do i will take my year + of preps with me... because having that means i have more time to spending doing things that do not include searching/raiding for food

There are a lot of people here that are staying put and have lots of food and supplies....

I would rather worry about defending my food then worry about having food... some problems are worth having....

I am amazed i have to teach things like this to some of you....


----------



## Maine-Marine

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> smoke from cooking or heating, worn trails, melted snow on a roof, foot prints etc.. can all give away your location. unless you live in a deep bunker, you gotta sleep sometime... and unless you have other bodies to do a 24-7 watch, it is just a matter of time..


So you honestly think only people in bunkers will survive?


----------



## Maine-Marine

Whenever I think about PEOPLE showing up at my house, back in the woods, unannounced, off the beaten path, post shtf- with bad intentions... I think about this -






There are a few other people on this forum who fall into the same category


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Maine-Marine said:


> So you honestly think only people in bunkers will survive?


if you are an army of 1.. yes... you gotta sleep sometime......


----------



## Mad Trapper

Unless odds are far against me I'd stay put. I have the means for a year or more. 

If I move I'm on a two week plan with no backup or home base, and most supplies get left behind. I can live in the woods but they will get crowded fast SHTF. 

I can grow enough food for another year but that is risky. I do have seeds but a garden is a gamble even good times. By garden I mean feed myself till next spring.

Defense? Good on that. Might need a friend to keep watch.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Maine-Marine said:


> 2 thoughts
> 
> 1. so if you can not DEFEND it they way YOU think it needs to be defended - we should just say F it and not prep
> 
> 2. Do you plan on staying awake 24 hours a day- I dont... I plan on having things that will wake me up and also i plan on making it harder for people to get to me. I do not live in a large city and in fact I am on a back road.... I do not leave my doors unlocked
> 
> Some of you guys freaking amaze me.... come SHTF I have to wonder if a few of you are going to just say screw it and off yourself...
> 
> I grew up in no where Maine. If things get really really really bad I will leave my house and head into the woods... but when I do i will take my year + of preps with me... because having that means i have more time to spending doing things that do not include searching/raiding for food
> 
> There are a lot of people here that are staying put and have lots of food and supplies....
> 
> I would rather worry about defending my food then worry about having food... some problems are worth having....
> 
> I am amazed i have to teach things like this to some of you....


unless you only have 1 way into your house, you cannot defend it alone.. locked in your house with 1 years worth of supplies for yourself great.... til the group of 3 decides to burn you out/down... you could possibly prevent this.. if you had a couple of people on watch while you slept on your pile of preps.... a gopher is safe in it's hole.. until the hunter knows he is in it.. then it may as well be a tomb.. someone walks down your back road at night while you sleep. you are alerted.. but now you are stuck in your house and there are 3 of them... now what? what if there are 5? if you fire on them or warn them, now they know where you are.. half-assed smart person would hide and watch you.... and since you don't plan on staying awake 24 hrs... you are henceforth screwed eventually. if they don't just decide to torch your house for shooting one of their buddies..


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Mad Trapper said:


> Unless odds are far against me I'd stay put. I have the means for a year or more.
> 
> If I move I'm on a two week plan with no backup or home base, and most supplies get left behind. I can live in the woods but they will get crowded fast SHTF.
> 
> I can grow enough food for another year but that is risky. I do have seeds but a garden is a gamble even good times. By garden I mean feed myself till next spring.
> 
> Defense? Good on that. * Might need a friend to keep watch*.


 that has been the point that I have been making and MM seems to twist into me saying don't bother prepping unless you live in a hole.... the fact that we prep makes us targets where our preps are.. if you live in a house and prep to defend that house.. it is a small target to defend and attack.. if you have a group you can extend your watch area further from your house making your target defense area larger and harder for the same sized group to attack.. 1 man in a foxhole can have all the ammo for his machine gun he wants.... but with no one to cover his six? he is a sitting duck in the grand scheme of it all.


----------



## Maine-Marine

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> if you are an army of 1.. yes... you gotta sleep sometime......


And As soon as a person goes to sleep the vampires show up?

I am not an army of one, or even a Marine Corps of one... But if I was only 1 - I still do not think it would be easy for the bad guys to surprise me.

I think you might over estimate the number of gangs running around and I am betting that I would hear them at other places before they got to me...

but you go ahead and keep telling single people to not prep!!!!


----------



## Maine-Marine

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> unless you only have 1 way into your house, you cannot defend it alone.. locked in your house with 1 years worth of supplies for yourself great.... til the group of 3 decides to burn you out/down... you could possibly prevent this.. if you had a couple of people on watch while you slept on your pile of preps.... a gopher is safe in it's hole.. until the hunter knows he is in it.. then it may as well be a tomb.. someone walks down your back road at night while you sleep. you are alerted.. but now you are stuck in your house and there are 3 of them... now what? what if there are 5? if you fire on them or warn them, now they know where you are.. half-assed smart person would hide and watch you.... and since you don't plan on staying awake 24 hrs... you are henceforth screwed eventually. if they don't just decide to torch your house for shooting one of their buddies..


Are you jealous that I have a year of preps.. you seem to be focused on that. And you have this strange 3 on one action thing going on. For crying out loud man - this is not mad max.... I am not sure what you are trying to beat here but damn horse is dead.... we all know that you think single people are screwed and anybody defending a house is crazy.. thanks for playing

I will be at home with my family..and God have mercy on raiders and looters if the show up .. chances are they will not even make it to the house

As for me..I am glad I have a year of food, my goal is to have 3 1/2 years of food.... because i think we will see an event of biblical proportion..and that will be worse then the 3 raiders you think might show up


----------



## Maine-Marine

and let me make another point... raiders/looters/the unprepared that might show up - They are hungry, desperate, untrained, they are scared of dying and they bleed just like you and me. most of them are not trained in firearms and will piss their pants the first time a bullet flies past them.

I will know if a large group if showing up... and I will be gone. If it is a smaller group - I will take care of them remotely... if it is the military or law enforcement... I have a back way out to a place even more remote then me

Maybe I get killed..but it will be costly...both myself and my wife knowing what this people would do..would fight to the death..to the last bullet... if we lost the other people would not be happy with the "victory"

and again..there are lots of people like me that would slowly kill off the vermin......


----------



## Camel923

If SHTF I am going with dispersion. Keep in the house what is needed for immediate consumption and have the rest in multiple vastly separated caches. If it goes badly, I have the option of retreat and retrieve later. Having said that, the situation would have to be desperate to not defend my home. MM's comments have given me something to think about.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Maine-Marine said:


> Are you jealous that I have a year of preps.. you seem to be focused on that. And you have this strange 3 on one action thing going on. For crying out loud man - this is not mad max.... I am not sure what you are trying to beat here but damn horse is dead.... we all know that you think single people are screwed and anybody defending a house is crazy.. thanks for playing
> 
> I will be at home with my family..and God have mercy on raiders and looters if the show up .. chances are they will not even make it to the house
> 
> As for me..I am glad I have a year of food, my goal is to have 3 1/2 years of food.... because i think we will see an event of biblical proportion..and that will be worse then the 3 raiders you think might show up


ok.. quick question.. how many people do you have living within 100 miles of you? possibly 1/3-1/2 that amount could be wandering searching for food... the difference between you and I ... I have *A LOT* less people to deal with.. I am not jealous of your preps.. I am not jealous of your location.. I will take my secluded area with 2-miles between neighbors (that I know) and we will all watch each other's backs and not worry about someone trapping us in our houses because we will see them coming 800 yards away....


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Camel923 said:


> If SHTF I am going with dispersion. Keep what Aimee's in the house for immediate consumption and have the rest in multiple vastly separated caches. If it goes badly, I have the option of retreat and retrieve later. Having said that, the situation would have to be desperate to not defend my home.


agreed.. my point was.. it is going to be damned tough to defend anything alone......


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

at any given time we have 8-12 bins full of grain/peas.. at 8500 bushel/ bin.. there is no way I or anyone could take that away quickly... so we will just defend them best we can and stash other goods across our 1500 acres.. plant multiple hidden gardens.. and defend the entire township with our neighbors who have as much if not more grain..... and see them coming miles before they get to the bins..


----------



## Gridrebel

Illini Warrior said:


> so did both sides of my family - but - facts are facts - people abandoned the rural life during the depression and WW2 and became urban dwellers - still happening every day even today .... there's totally deserted former rural communities all over the US - entire counties without a single incorporated town anymore ....
> 
> watch The River with Mel Gibson - modern version of what happened in the rural depression days ...


The SHTF is an exception where the large metropolis areas won't offer what it once did and still does today to the urban dwellers needing jobs for money to buy food and shelter and an exciting life. The reverse will be the case. The big cities will be death in every aspect of the word and the rural areas will offer hope for the opportunity to live in somewhat assemblance of surviving and thriving.

The rural areas today are dying for sure. They're losing most of the young to the excitement of new experiences and lure of money to the larger towns and cities. But in a SHTF scenario like that which is being discussed here though, the rural areas are the place to be.


----------



## Real Old Man

M&M you seem to miss the entire point of my and several others that have posted. A year's worth of preps are great, but if you no way to sustain that all you are doing is to post pone the inevitable. Likewise without a support infrastructure you are going to be hard pressed to defend what you have, heal those that get sick or injured - first aid and combat lifesaver only go so far - or educate your children's children. A few friends are all well and good, but can not compare to a small community of say 500 folks living in a moderate climate with natural rivers and extensive acrage under cultivation of with active cattle herdds


----------



## bigwheel

What kind of dope do yall smoke?


----------



## M118LR

How long has SHTF been happening in Raqqa? 
Perhaps the Syrians are more adapt/accustomed at survival them we here in America?

The only Rourke that comes to my mind is:


----------



## Sasquatch

bigwheel said:


> What kind of dope do yall smoke?












Sent from Tapatalk (aka Uranus, not to be confused with the Anus' at Survivalist Board)


----------



## bigwheel

Cant believe anybody watches trashy stuff like that. Now Mr. Hand was nice.


----------



## Illini Warrior

Gridrebel said:


> The SHTF is an exception where the large metropolis areas won't offer what it once did and still does today to the urban dwellers needing jobs for money to buy food and shelter and an exciting life. The reverse will be the case. The big cities will be death in every aspect of the word and the rural areas will offer hope for the opportunity to live in somewhat assemblance of surviving and thriving.
> 
> The rural areas today are dying for sure. They're losing most of the young to the excitement of new experiences and lure of money to the larger towns and cities. But in a SHTF scenario like that which is being discussed here though, the rural areas are the place to be.


read back - that's how that discussion got started - the type of SHTF makes ALL the difference - again, during the depression the cities grew because that's where the resources were all located - that could well be the situation again - the gooberment will concentrate what they can in those areas ...


----------



## Maine-Marine

Real Old Man said:


> M&M you seem to miss the entire point of my and several others that have posted. A year's worth of preps are great, but if you no way to sustain that all you are doing is to post pone the inevitable. Likewise without a support infrastructure you are going to be hard pressed to defend what you have, heal those that get sick or injured - first aid and combat lifesaver only go so far - or educate your children's children. A few friends are all well and good, but can not compare to a small community of say 500 folks living in a moderate climate with natural rivers and extensive acrage under cultivation of with active cattle herdds


I got your point--- you were clear.. having 1 year of preps is worthless if there are no cops, phone repair guys, road maintenance, and the other things that go with it...

I understand you are going to depend on the government..be it county or federal... you feel like you need those things to survive...

I disagree... Many people have survived without phones, cops, and roads....and even without hospitals


----------



## Maine-Marine

Real Old Man said:


> A few friends are all well and good, but can not compare to a small community of say 500 folks living in a moderate climate with natural rivers and extensive acrage under cultivation of with active cattle herdds


if you have 500 people you got problems... I thought you were a cop..
.
500 people..are they all equally able to lend a hand and contribute

I think you are freakin high... 500 people..you will have problems and I bet you will have theft, rape, and lazy slobs.. a few wife beaters and more


----------



## inceptor

Same argument, different thread. smh

No one knows for sure how, what, when, where or why. If you are meant to make it, you will. If not, well then...... I'll leave that in God's hands. 

I read somewhere a long time ago that once the battle starts, all plans go wrong. I plan the best I can for what I believe and will do my best. That's all I can do.

All this arguing over 1 vs 500 or who has the best plan. Should I stay or should I go. Will you be by yourself, have a few people or an entire army. I guess you'll find out when it happens.


----------



## Slippy

inceptor said:


> Same argument, different thread. smh
> 
> No one knows for sure how, what, when, where or why. If you are meant to make it, you will. If not, well then...... I'll leave that in God's hands.
> 
> I read somewhere a long time ago that once the battle starts, all plans go wrong. I plan the best I can for what I believe and will do my best. That's all I can do.
> 
> All this arguing over 1 vs 500 or who has the best plan. Should I stay or should I go. Will you be by yourself, have a few people or an entire army. I guess you'll find out when it happens.


Inceptor,

Mike Tyson (in his profound wisdom) simplified the quote you are referencing;

"Everyone's got a plan...until they get punched in the damn mouth."


----------



## Real Old Man

Maine-Marine said:


> I got your point--- you were clear.. having 1 year of preps is worthless if there are no cops, phone repair guys, road maintenance, and the other things that go with it...
> 
> I understand you are going to depend on the government..be it county or federal... you feel like you need those things to survive...
> 
> I disagree... Many people have survived without phones, cops, and roads....and even without hospitals


First you did not get my point. I did not talk about depending on a government. I talked about a sustainable infrastructure. To a Marine they may sound alike , but I can assure you that they are not.

I did not talk about phones, cops or road maintenance or hospitals. There is no way you and your few friends will be able to address all the situations that cold arise especially if as you and a couple of others have alluded to the total break down in society.

When your axe breaks where will you get another? If your solar cells fail will you be able to find a well point and pump so you'll have fresh water? And who will be there to give those new born children their vaccines against small pox, measles, and the like?

A small community of 500 is large enough to have most of the necessary skill sets (and it also happens to be the size of the small community that surrounds our farm.

And while folks have survived without those things, they do make life a whole lot easier to deal with.

But hey you are free to live in the world as you see it.

Happy trails skippy


----------



## Real Old Man

*I think you are freakin high... 500 people..you will have problems and I bet you will have theft, rape, and lazy slobs.. a few wife beaters and more*

Sounds like you are describing a bunch of uncle sam's misguided children the like of which I had the misfortune of dealing with for over ten years


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

as for defenders.. 2 is 1 and 1 is none....


----------



## Auntie

Guys while I appreciate a good discussion and banter, *please* do not start attacking each others character again.


----------



## A Watchman

Auntie said:


> Guys while I appreciate a good discussion and banter, *please* do not start attacking each others character again.


Auntie just for clarity regarding character, were you referring to option 1 or 2 below?

Character - Webster

1. *the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual.

*"running away was not in keeping with her character"
a person's good reputation.
"to what do I owe this attack on my character?"

2. *a person in a novel, play, or movie.

*synonyms: persona, role, part; dramatis personae 
"the characters develop throughout the play"
a person in a novel, play, or movie.


----------



## Auntie

Option 1

I guess I should have said NO PERSONAL ATTACKS *please*. I am wondering if I should put a warning in my signature when I am really tired and/or grouchy.


----------



## A Watchman

Auntie said:


> Option 1
> 
> I guess I should have said NO PERSONAL ATTACKS *please*. I am wondering if I should put a warning in my signature when I am really tired and/or grouchy.


You do just fine Auntie, and we are blessed to have you counted as one of us.

Was just a funning a little with the post, but on an internet forum one sometimes wonders which option is indeed reality.


----------



## Coastie dad

And some people have no character, so it is as attacking ghosts in the mist.


----------



## Auntie

A Watchman said:


> You do just fine Auntie, and we are blessed to have you counted as one of us.
> 
> Was just a funning a little with the post, but om an internet forum one sometimes wonders which option is indeed reality.


I knew you were having fun with me. I was teasing about the signature.


----------



## Denton

Maine-Marine said:


> Winter BURR, cold freezing, roads un-drive-able.. no heat people die...
> 
> down south lots of open roads, shade trees and motorcycle gangs


Why are you fixated on motorcycle gangs down here? Keep it up and I am going to do a burn-out on your noggin! I mean, urrrr.....


----------



## Denton

bigwheel said:


> What kind of dope do yall smoke?


That which is sold to me by motorcycle gangs, of course. I live in the south.


----------



## Auntie

Denton said:


> That which is sold to me by motorcycle gangs, of course. I live in the south.


Denton: :vs_mad:
Me: :vs_lol:


----------



## A Watchman

^^^^^^^ I don't care who you are, that right there is funny!


----------



## Maine-Marine

Real Old Man said:


> First you did not get my point. I did not talk about depending on a government. I talked about a sustainable infrastructure. To a Marine they may sound alike , but I can assure you that they are not.
> 
> I did not talk about phones, cops or road maintenance or hospitals. There is no way you and your few friends will be able to address all the situations that cold arise especially if as you and a couple of others have alluded to the total break down in society.
> 
> When your axe breaks where will you get another? If your solar cells fail will you be able to find a well point and pump so you'll have fresh water? And who will be there to give those new born children their vaccines against small pox, measles, and the like?
> 
> A small community of 500 is large enough to have most of the necessary skill sets (and it also happens to be the size of the small community that surrounds our farm.
> 
> And while folks have survived without those things, they do make life a whole lot easier to deal with.
> 
> But hey you are free to live in the world as you see it.
> 
> Happy trails skippy


No I got your point fine.. I was making it simple... breaking it down to its basics.

500 people in a group...and you will have problems. Who will be the leader? Whoever it is will make somebody mad.

the 500 people that will be in the area and not going to be HAND PICKED they will be the ones that are there...
There is no guarantee that they will have the ability to have extra solar panels, batteries, etc

some will have lots of food most wont.. Will it be 1 out of 10 people , 1 out of 20, 1 out of 5????
who decides who is giving up food to who.

math tells me that if 1 person has enough for 4 people for 1 year and they are FORCED to share it with 4 others you now have reduced their time to 3 months -that is a big hit and i doubt the ones with food will go for it

more people might help with security, but the problems and issue with food and distribution of resources will end up causing issues... I think I will start a thread and open this to discussion.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Denton said:


> Why are you fixated on motorcycle gangs down here? Keep it up and I am going to do a burn-out on your noggin! I mean, urrrr.....


I should have been more clear... it is the mutant ninja zombie motorcycle gangs that I was referring to.


----------



## Prepared One

Man....those ninja zombie biker gangs are bad asses. :tango_face_smile:


----------



## Kauboy

SittingElf said:


> Just like cars...most current motorcycles won't run after an EMP or CME event.....and most MC gang members are too damn fat and lazy to walk!


A CME won't stop a vehicle. The pulse is more similar to an E3 pulse from an EMP, and that's the one that affects long transmission lines.
It's the E1 pulse of an EMP that damages delicate circuitry, and *could* stop your car(still debatable).
A coronal mass ejection does not create an E1-type pulse.

But yeah, and if we got hit with an EMP, the death curve would spike sharply, and it wouldn't even take a year to see these figures.


----------



## Targetshooter

I know it may be wrong to think this way ,, but ,, if they are not ready for SHTF then that's there own fought . they have lots of time to get ready .


----------



## RedLion

I would be equally if not more worried about the Beta urbanite male with family that has prepped nothing, has no real skills and who would kill you or any person for some food than bikers.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

here is one to think about... in event of an EMP.. what happens to all the death-row prisoners in Maximum security prisons? I have a hunch some prison gangs would be worse than the bikers...


----------



## MaterielGeneral

Auntie said:


> Guys while I appreciate a good discussion and banter, *please* do not start attacking each others character again.


Yeah, this thread got old real quick.


----------



## Mad Trapper

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> here is one to think about... in event of an EMP.. what happens to all the death-row prisoners in Maximum security prisons? I have a hunch some prison gangs would be worse than the bikers...


Lets hope all the locks are electric :tango_face_smile:


----------



## SecretPrepper

Aren't a lot of the new electronic locks magnetic. No electricity no locked doors.


----------



## SOCOM42

SecretPrepper said:


> Aren't a lot of the new electronic locks magnetic. No electricity no locked doors.


From what I know, all electronic locks use electromagnetics to interface with the mechanical portion of the lock and are intermittent..

Normally, bolt solenoids require power to operate, they don't usually have continuous power to the coil.


----------



## Illini Warrior

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> here is one to think about... in event of an EMP.. what happens to all the death-row prisoners in Maximum security prisons? I have a hunch some prison gangs would be worse than the bikers...


???? .... every other month this subject is posted about - some cry baby pathetic with a relative in prison or some former dirtbag con swears that the prisons are just filled with innocent reefer smokers .... prison gangs? - what are they?


----------



## Real Old Man

Mad Trapper said:


> Lets hope all the locks are electric :tango_face_smile:


Most control room controlled electric locks won't automatically unlock just cause the power fails. Most if not all would have to be manually unlocked with a real brass key


----------



## 8301

Kauboy said:


> It's the E1 pulse of an EMP that damages delicate circuitry, and *could* stop your car(still debatable)..


Watch this for my response https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...B660B0040372EDB032C0B660B0040372EDB&FORM=VIRE

'nuf said.


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## warrior4

As others have said there's really no way of knowing exactly what will happen until it's bearing down on you. As far as I'm concerned any prep one might have is a step in the right direction. Personally when I see what's happening in this country I see a lot of very vocal forces trying to tear us apart, helped gleefully along by the media who love to report bad news. I spend my nights going into areas of people who are dependent on welfare assistance and have no motivation to fix that cycle or other areas where people don't have the common sense to take care of themselves and so keep calling for help time and again.

I've been losing more and more faith in the government and thinking that they can help us. So I'll stand on my own two feet and help myself, my family, and my friends. I'll educate myself on skills that I might need and stock up as best I can. If other's aren't willing to do the same that's their fault if you ask me.


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## charito

Mad Trapper said:


> We still have the grandparents farm, all of it , none sold to development nor agri-bizz. Aunt/Cousin has it now. I'm on the farm my parents brought when they married, I own it and will live and die here. I can grow and raise enough to live on. I don't care if the supermarkets go dry.


Those warm sentiments over legacy for generations is hardly heard anymore. It brings tears to the eyes, because I find it so touching. All the best to you.


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## Kauboy

John Galt said:


> Watch this for my response https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...B660B0040372EDB032C0B660B0040372EDB&FORM=VIRE
> 
> 'nuf said.


One test is insufficient.
Read this for my reasoning.
EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com


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## RedLion

Kauboy said:


> One test is insufficient.
> Read this for my reasoning.
> EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com


Good link that I have seen before.


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## Kauboy

RedLion said:


> Good link that I have seen before.


Until I find better information, or a reason to disbelieve it, that site is my "go-to" for EMP knowledge.


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## RedLion

Kauboy said:


> Until I find better information, or a reason to disbelieve it, that site is my "go-to" for EMP knowledge.


Makes sense. It does not make an either or conclusion and lays out testing.


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## 8301

I figure that if our military hardens most if not all of it's vehicles and much of their other equipment against EMP then EMP survivability for a modern civilian vehicle is a dubious prospect.


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## Fuser1983

John Galt said:


> I figure that if our military hardens most if not all of it's vehicles and much of their other equipment against EMP then EMP survivability for a modern civilian vehicle is a dubious prospect.


I had never really thought about this until you just mentioned it. No wonder all the military vehicles are simple humvee's and big deuce and a half trucks. Makes you wonder why they don't upgrade to the latest and greatest when it comes to vehicles. Glad you brought this up.


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## C.L.Ripley

Here is a recent interview with a NASA Scientist with background in electrical engineering and who is a certified emi/emc engineer talking about EMP. He discusses the effects on automobiles at about the 9.40 mark...


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## Auntie

@Paul - where are you?


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## 1skrewsloose

You mean Paul S? He had a wealth of info. Haven't heard from him in a ***** age.


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## Maine-Marine

Auntie said:


> @Paul - where are you?


He left because of me - remember


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## Auntie

He has been back a few times since then.


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## A Watchman

Maine-Marine said:


> He left because of me - remember


I don't think you get sole credit here on this one. Confrontations in general was my read, and a desire to just step back a bit. Paul made several appearances here in June. It usually takes someone botching up an EMP,HEMP, or solar topic to draw his wisdom.


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## Slippy

A Watchman said:


> I don't think you get sole credit here on this one. Confrontations in general was my read, and a desire to just step back a bit. Paul made several appearances here in June. It usually takes someone botching up an EMP,HEMP, or solar topic to draw his wisdom.


I really enjoy @PaulS posts.


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