# Silencers: Build or Buy?



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

First off, I am ONLY speaking about legitimate legal methods for acquiring a silencer in the U.S. I do NOT intend to introduce grey areas into this, nor lead people to believe that I condone illegal activity.
Hear that ATF? I am a good boy doing legal things.

Ok, formalities and CYA stuff done...

I am looking to get my first can, and know there are 2 options I can pursue.

Submit a Form 1 application requesting permissions to build a firearm along with $200 in extortion money. Wait for said form to be approved and receive a tax stamp. With stamp in hand, begin assembling my silencer.
Buy a silencer from licensed FFL. Submit a Form 4 application requesting permission to receive a transferred NFA firearm along with pretty pictures of myself and ink splotches of my grubby fingers, and of course the $200 extortion fee. Wait for said form to be approved and my tax stamp to be returned to the FFL holding my silencer in gun jail. After approval, go pick up my silencer.

I may have left out some minutia, but that's the gist of it.

So my question is, as stated in the title, build or buy?
The benefit of building is primarily cost. DIY kits can be found everywhere for stupid cheap compared to professionally manufactured silencers. Most are less than $100. The trade offs are variable. Poor quality control, no warranty, can be less effective, generally no customer service.
The benefits of buying are that you get all of the above mentioned "negatives" as positives, but the cost goes up considerably.
Form 1 applications "can" be approved sooner than Form 4 applications, or so I've heard.

Has anyone here done a build? What did you learn? Would you do it again?
Is it just not worth the risk, and buying is simply safer?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I would never encourage breaking the law. Post SHTF there will be no law. They are not hard to build and parts common to many other uses can be had. If not assembled they are just everyday parts How you proceed is up to you


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## jimcosta (Jun 11, 2017)

I know a group that made their own. Average cost: from $20 to $40 each. They all work fine.

Now for legality. If you need to carry one for use then by that time we have gone way past the normal rule of law. 
If you are in trouble for *having one* you would have been in the same trouble by the authorities even if you* did not *have one.

Now, what's the problem with possessing the parts to make one either now or later?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

jimcosta said:


> I know a group that made their own. Average cost: from $20 to $40 each. They all work fine.
> 
> Now for legality. If you need to carry one for use then by that time we have gone way past the normal rule of law.
> If you are in trouble for *having one* you would have been in the same trouble by the authorities even if you* did not *have one.
> ...


 The times parts can be a problem is if they can show intent. If the parts serve no real other purpose . 
Don't store them all in the same box meaning all the parts to build one.
Don't do internet video's explaining how it is done.
Remember years back some were charged for have 6 inch pipe and caps. As boom making materiel. More to all that but I am sure you get it.

Trap grommets are often used, if you have some some traps around you have repaired show intend uses. ect
During Brady bill times having a folding stock not on a weapon was not a crime, install on some was. If you had one make sure you owned a weapon it could go on legally .
Same with many other parts.
A dozen tubes cut to length may be an issue one long not. Sadly in this world we live in now it is not about breaking a law. All they have to do is convince a jury you intended to.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

IF you are capable of doing machine work, then by all means do it yourself.

From what I have seen the kit stuff is crap IMHO.

I worked with a company called OPSINC. on them for M-14's M-4's and M-24 bolt guns.

That was 35 years ago, seems like yesterday.

They are easy to build, baffle configuration is important along with expansion chamber volume.

We cannot have them here and never will unless catastrophic SHTF.

Back in 1955 I had a 22 rifle with a Hiram Maxim silencer on it, I worked well with Std. velocity 22 LR.

It was given to me by an old gunsmith, was a turn of the century gun.

I don't know what happened to that gun, must have gotten lost or stolen when we moved when at age 16.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I met a guy who printed one out on his 3D printer. It worked well enough. Not sure how long it would last.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Chiefster23 said:


> I met a guy who printed one out on his 3D printer. It worked well enough. Not sure how long it would last.


Depending on caliber, the burn rate on baffles can be quite high. 316 SS is best for the first few in line, with SS spacers.

Plating them over with aluminum oxide would triple the life, but we are talking expensive here.

None of the refractory materials that I know of can stand up to the blast wave, but heat yes.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd build my own to answer your question. Wait time is the main concern and of course money. 

Question is how much are you really going to use it? If your going to become a full time operator and use it daily I would buy a good manufactured one. However if it's just for SHTF hunting or sniping I'd go cheap. 

Could just buy a few extra fuel or oil filters and keep them on the shelves. Get the adapters needed and don't put them together. Once the SHTF and law enforcement is no longer a issue use them. 100 bucks and you'll be all set. Like others said get the stuff and don't assemble into a suppressor and your fine.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Chiefster23 said:


> I met a guy who printed one out on his 3D printer. It worked well enough. Not sure how long it would last.


I can't imagine what he could have used. Most plastics from a printer melt at 250C, or lower. Any gun will produce this temp after just one magazine.
Maybe it was a one-and-done design.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Chipper said:


> I'd build my own to answer your question. Wait time is the main concern and of course money.


Did you notice a difference in effective dB reduction versus a manufactured one?


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

You will want to see a lawyer and get a Trust first. Otherwise you have to have permission of the Sheriff and most do not approve NFA items.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> First off, I am ONLY speaking about legitimate legal methods for acquiring a silencer in the U.S. I do NOT intend to introduce grey areas into this, nor lead people to believe that I condone illegal activity.
> Hear that ATF? I am a good boy doing legal things.
> 
> Ok, formalities and CYA stuff done...
> ...


I used to know some Bandido hit men..or rather heard about em. What kind weapon is we trying to get tamed down on the deciibels around here? Thanks.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

RedLion said:


> You will want to see a lawyer and get a Trust first. Otherwise you have to have permission of the Sheriff and most do not approve NFA items.


Howdy... I'm from *Texas*. Nice to meet you.
:vs_laugh:

But seriously, that's not a bad idea. If anything to add my wife as a legal user, and pass it on to my kids, of course.
Is there any difference in the trust process when building versus buying?
I know Silencer Shop has their kiosks which offer an optional new kind of trust, and make the process easy, but those seem only suited for use when buying.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Howdy... I'm from *Texas*. Nice to meet you.
> :vs_laugh:
> 
> But seriously, that's not a bad idea. If anything to add my wife as a legal user, and pass it on to my kids, of course.
> ...


I am looking at doing a Trust and have been looking at on-line pre-completed Gun Specific Trusts. They seem a like a fairly decent deal.

Such as....https://www.guntrustguru.com/minnesota


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I always just figured on using a pillow. :devil:

Just kidding all you alphabet soup guys looking in. :vs_smirk:


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

A friend built one and it only took 23 days to get his tax stamp. That right there is a reason to build one !


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

So, Silencer Shop has this kiosk thing. They are everywhere. They seem so simple, allowing Form 4s to be filled in and get fingerprints completed, and all kinds of cool stuff. You can set up one of those Single Shot Trusts too, which seem simple and easy.
But... Silencer Shop costs more.
An answer I can't seem to find anywhere, but likely is an obvious answer I just don't want to accept, is whether or not I can buy a silencer from a different online shop, and then use a Silencer Shop kiosk at the FFL I send it to.
I found the silencer I'm interested in for $100-200 less than Silencer Shop has it listed for. That's just about the cost of the tax stamp.

Anybody know if this is possible? Can I buy a can online, send it to an FFL that has a Silencer Shop kiosk in-store, and do the whole thing through that?
Yeah, it's probably a pipe dream.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> So, Silencer Shop has this kiosk thing. They are everywhere. They seem so simple, allowing Form 4s to be filled in and get fingerprints completed, and all kinds of cool stuff. You can set up one of those Single Shot Trusts too, which seem simple and easy.
> But... Silencer Shop costs more.
> An answer I can't seem to find anywhere, but likely is an obvious answer I just don't want to accept, is whether or not I can buy a silencer from a different online shop, and then use a Silencer Shop kiosk at the FFL I send it to.
> I found the silencer I'm interested in for $100-200 less than Silencer Shop has it listed for. That's just about the cost of the tax stamp.
> ...


I would be willing to bet that Silencer Shop would not like and likely not allow you to use their kiosk if not buying from them. I provided a "fillable" form 4 below. It seems pretty straight forward to complete. You can also go to YouTube and find vids on how to complete. There is also a link to ATF Eforms that you can register for and complete the Form 4 as well. A link for directing how to fill out Form 4 and a YouTube vid on filling out form 4 as well.

https://www.pdffiller.com/jsfiller-desk17/?projectId=439497944#7b8e7d5d29abb3ca6d06dcb7e6c31 371

https://www.guntrustdepot.com/NFA-Trust/ATF-Forms/Form4






https://eforms.atf.gov/EForms/faces/userProfile/login.jspx?_afrLoop=218264142914224274&_afrWindowMode=0&_adf.ctrl-state=juvoj6jyc_4


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

What if you already have a trust that covers everything in your life. Things can always be added. Would that meet the requirement ?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

RedLion said:


> I would be willing to bet that Silencer Shop would not like and likely not allow you to use their kiosk if not buying from them. I provided a "fillable" form 4 below. It seems pretty straight forward to complete. You can also go to YouTube and find vids on how to complete. There is also a link to ATF Eforms that you can register for and complete the Form 4 as well. A link for directing how to fill out Form 4 and a YouTube vid on filling out form 4 as well.
> 
> https://www.pdffiller.com/jsfiller-desk17/?projectId=439497944#7b8e7d5d29abb3ca6d06dcb7e6c31 371
> 
> ...


I had a bookmark for the eForms site already. That did seem like the easiest way until the talk of a trust came up. That introduced a new step, which Silencer Shop still keeps simple by including it in their kiosk steps.
Thanks for the video. I'll give it a look.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

I recently bought one of these. 

















It's going to go on this. 









I just have to wait for big brother to allow me to pick it up.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I don't get it, they charge more than MSRP. At MSRP they still make money, no way they pay MSRP when they buy it.

Maybe I missed something.


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## RubberDuck (May 27, 2016)

Does that include the $200 stamp ?


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

RubberDuck said:


> Does that include the $200 stamp ?


No it doesn't


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

KUSA said:


> No it doesn't


Isn't that a bit expensive? Twice as much as mine. Mine isn't a Nomad, though.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

If anyone is interested, text John Killebrew at (334) 797-6810. He prefers texts because he has bad hearing from many years ago.

$450.00 for regular thread .30 cal can. 
He also does mostly .22lr and 9mm. I know he also has done a 500 S&W can for someone and it came out beautifully.
His business is KDM Cans


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'm looking to do a short .30cal for the .300 pistol. The barrel is only 7", and I'm looking at the Dead Air Sandman K. It would work on the 16" 5.56 as well, but not as quiet.
Cheapest I can find at the moment is $602. Two months ago, I found it on BigTexOutdoors with a discount code for ~$475. Nothing like that now anywhere.

That GunTrustGuru site seems like a good option, simple filing, and they have a current "Coronavirus discount" of $50 off, making the trust $79.95+tax.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Denton said:


> Isn't that a bit expensive? Twice as much as mine. Mine isn't a Nomad, though.


It is a bit expensive but I wanted that particular model and mounting system. If it's all that I expected, I'm going to order a couple more.


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## Grinch (Jan 3, 2016)

I've never built a legal one, when I was young and invincible I constructed a few to mess around with. Since becoming more responsible I've legally purchased them. My thing is sometimes with built ones you get lucky and it turns out well. With bought ones quality is never questioned. For my wife's primary bedside gun we took her Saiga 410 and shortened it and suppressed it. With two infants our main concern is not deafening them if something were to happen.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> I'm looking to do a short .30cal for the .300 pistol. The barrel is only 7", and I'm looking at the Dead Air Sandman K. It would work on the 16" 5.56 as well, but not as quiet.


My 2 cents. I have suppressors for my pistols but really don't care for them. Yes, it is James Bond cool I guess, but for me it is just too long & too heavy a weight added to the end of a pistol barrel. I just don't see them as practical for daily, normal use. For somewhat of the same reason, I feel the same about putting them on a normal rifle. Put a suppressor on a short barrel rifle (SBR)... now you are talking. My two favorite guns, the ones I shoot ALL the time, are a SBR S&W 15-22 with a Sparrow suppressor and my SBR 300 Blackout with a Saker 762. Yes, it takes another stamp but boy, is it ever worth it. My preference is for the SBR barrel length plus suppressor to be 16" long (normal carbine length). I've tried super short but much prefer this size.

Cleaning these things, especially rimfire which I shoot the most, can be a royal pain. For that reason, I suggest having a good stainless can that allows you to use the dip for cleaning. Let it soak for a day, wipe it off, and clean as new. Not certain if you can build your own using stainless, but I'll say that would be the deciding factor for me. I've got two 22 Sparrows and just love them to death. Easy to break down no matter how dirty, plenty quiet and is stainless.

I don't pay a lot of attention to all the tests regarding how quiet each can is. A normal old fart's ears can't tell the difference between competing cans. Find what you can afford and what features you like, but ease of cleaning is a high priority.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Trust is done!
Feels weird that it is such a formal document for such an informal affair in finalizing it.

I paid for and printed the trust documentation from that GunTrustGuru site. They are very thorough with the packet they send. The trust documentation is a given, but they also include easy instructions on how to make it official, how to "fund" the trust to make it active, and even steps on going the Form 4 or Form 1 route for adding an NFA item to it. I'm quite pleased.
I took the printed document to my local UPS Store where they had a Notary Public on site. One stamp on the creation of the trust and one stamp on the initial inventory of $1.00 USD, and I had myself an active trust established with myself as the "settlor" and currently the sole trustee. A bit odd to make the trust active by *me* (the settlor) transferring to *me* (the trustee) my own $1 bill, but that's the nutty world we live in... No lawyers, and in Texas, no registering it with the state/court.
I got home, scanned in the signed forms, and made multiple backup copies. I will keep the official "trust" in a secured fire safe, and print out many other copies to be used for registering.
The packet instructions even included the handy tip of printing the trust copies 4 pages to a sheet, front and back, to save bulk. That helped.
I made a few digital copies to spread around too, but they don't serve as the real trust. Apparently digital copies are not "real", so you have to keep the real document physical and safe.

Now to the part I'm still fuzzy on...
If I find a deal online for the can I want, do I purchase it like a normal firearm, have it sent to an FFL, and *THEN* the process begins? Of course I should pick one that is versed in NFA item transfers. Do they just hang on to it for the duration of the approval process? Does that generally cost anything for them to keep it on hand? Do I get charged for the item like I normally would, at the time of sale? I understand that the tax stamp fee is normally a check that won't be cashed for the better part of a year or more, but the sale of the item is done up front, right?

Also, when submitting the trust as the transfer recipient on the application, I am supposed to include all "Responsible Persons" on a separate form, one for each person. This would be the list of trustees at the time of filing. Should I add my wife to the trust first, and submit a form for both myself and for her when the paperwork starts, or should I simplify it and only do one for me, adding her to the trust later? When/If adding her later, do I then need to submit the form to the ATF anyways, informing them of a new "Responsible Person"? I think I read that somewhere, but I've been reading so much on it that I can't keep it straight.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

******* said:


> My 2 cents. I have suppressors for my pistols but really don't care for them. Yes, it is James Bond cool I guess, but for me it is just too long & too heavy a weight added to the end of a pistol barrel. I just don't see them as practical for daily, normal use. For somewhat of the same reason, I feel the same about putting them on a normal rifle. Put a suppressor on a short barrel rifle (SBR)... now you are talking. My two favorite guns, the ones I shoot ALL the time, are a SBR S&W 15-22 with a Sparrow suppressor and my SBR 300 Blackout with a Saker 762. Yes, it takes another stamp but boy, is it ever worth it. My preference is for the SBR barrel length plus suppressor to be 16" long (normal carbine length). I've tried super short but much prefer this size.


For all intents and purposes, the .300 pistol functions as an SBR. It has a Shockwave brace to allow for support when firing, no stock. I considered converting it to an SBR to get the comfort of a stock and avoid the "oh no, did anyone see it graze my shoulder" stupidity, but then looked at the restrictions that an SBR introduces. The fact that I can't loan it to someone, or that I would have to ask permission before crossing state lines with it, kinda killed that idea for now. I won't be loaning the silencer to anyone, and from what I found, they do not have the permission request requirements for traveling like SBRs/SBSs do.
As far as length, I need to find a site that details the length of the muzzle device in order to know the true length of the final setup. They state on their description that the can only adds "2.9in. to the length of the muzzle device", but they never state how long the muzzle device extends from the barrel shoulder, so I can't be sure.
I expect a muzzle device length of 2" or so, bringing the whole thing to a hair under 5" of added length, for a total length of ~12" (I think the 7" barrel length includes the threaded muzzle portion, so it could be ~11" in truth)

I added a Law Tactical folding adapter to it a week ago. My goal is to make a compact truck gun with a decent balance between power and concealment, maintaining a low profile in a nondescript bag. If the can adds too much length, the bag gets more noticeable. Not a huge deal since it's a quick disconnect can, but still...


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I wonder if it works like any other trust . Our trust is Wife and I names. Everything is in the trust . We are the Trust, the trust is us at the same time I f die first all that happens is my name is taken off, same if she dies first. When we both die. The trustee becomes one of our sons. Then his duties to disburse the assets start he can start doing that day one.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> For all intents and purposes, the .300 pistol functions as an SBR. It has a Shockwave brace to allow for support when firing, no stock. I considered converting it to an SBR to get the comfort of a stock and avoid the "oh no, did anyone see it graze my shoulder" stupidity, but then looked at the restrictions that an SBR introduces. The fact that I can't loan it to someone, or that I would have to ask permission before crossing state lines with it, kinda killed that idea for now.


I don't travel and don't have friends, so not an issue for me. 

But that is an argument for a gun trust, where you can add folks that you might want to lend these things.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> I wonder if it works like any other trust . Our trust is Wife and I names. Everything is in the trust . We are the Trust, the trust is us at the same time I f die first all that happens is my name is taken off, same if she dies first. When we both die. The trustee becomes one of our sons. Then his duties to disburse the assets start he can start doing that day one.


It is a "living revocable trust". From what I can tell, there isn't anything particularly special about it from any other such trust.
As settlor and trustee, I can add to it, remove from it, or dissolve the whole thing if I choose. My wife will be a co-trustee, making her the same as your and your wife's trust relationship. If we both pass, a "successor trustee" is named who can step in and become a trustee. We also have our kids listed as beneficiaries, but they are not old enough to own firearms, and thus cannot be trustees until they reach the right age, as defined in the trust. That might be one of the differences between this and a normal revocable trust. It prevents a legal loophole where a minor could legally possess a firearm, haha. That's just a guess, but made me laugh.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> It is a "living revocable trust". From what I can tell, there isn't anything particularly special about it from any other such trust.
> As settlor and trustee, I can add to it, remove from it, or dissolve the whole thing if I choose. My wife will be a co-trustee, making her the same as your and your wife's trust relationship. If we both pass, a "successor trustee" is named who can step in and become a trustee. We also have our kids listed as beneficiaries, but they are not old enough to own firearms, and thus cannot be trustees until they reach the right age, as defined in the trust. That might be one of the differences between this and a normal revocable trust. It prevents a legal loophole where a minor could legally possess a firearm, haha. That's just a guess, but made me laugh.


 Yep it works just like any other trust then.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Yep it works just like any other trust then.


Yeah, probably. Except there is a portion I just read specific to disallowing "Prohibited Persons" from being Trustees, to prevent such folks from having access to firearms.
If you used a normal trust for NFA items, or firearms in general, you could run into a legal problem if a "Prohibited Person" was a trustee.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Yeah, probably. Except there is a portion I just read specific to disallowing "Prohibited Persons" from being Trustees, to prevent such folks from having access to firearms.
> If you used a normal trust for NFA items, or firearms in general, you could run into a legal problem if a "Prohibited Person" was a trustee.


 I would never have a prohibited person as a Trustee . You can set restriction any way you need to in a trust. When we set ours up it was time consuming . We had to protect assets passing to Payton. And those going to other grandchildren.
Not something I am going to acquire any time soon. Just no need for one . SHTF I know where to get what is needed.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Can ordered!
Now to wait for it to show up at the FFL.

This crap is expensive... I hate government regulations.
What should cost me $100-200 TOTAL is now going to push $1000!

Found a deal on the can I wanted for almost $200 cheaper than everywhere else: $569 (online order from Maine, no tax!)
$200 transfer fee to daddy gubmint.
$100 NFA transfer to my FFL.
$80 gun trust.
Thankfully, my FFL doesn't charge a "jail fee". Another local one charges $10/month. With approvals pushing 8-12 months, no thank you!

Hopefully this time next year, I'll have a few rounds through it.
:tango_face_smile:

:vs_sad:

:vs_cry:


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

They only firearm of ours I would like to put a can on is the RPR 6.5 Creedmoore. Think I will wait for post SHTF make my own. it won't madder then .


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I would never suggest bending or breaking the law. Nor would I hint at using something for other than it's intend purpose. For the sake of education I offer this link. I am sure any needed modification to use it for unintended purposes would be outside the skill level of anyone we know. 
Anyone need a fuel filter?

https://www.dooxitool.com/collectio...Xj54K9T28fYIcOTBYkG368&variant=32402017157219


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

We are not allowed to have them in this commie state.

They banned the sale of new AR's and AK's, they sure as hell not going to allow any suppressors.

At least they were nice enough to allow us to keep what we had, generous state this is.

Those presented in the link will work, however they will not last long.

One Beta Max drum, emptied either rapid or FA will wash out these inserts.

Inserts need to be made out of 316SS to survive.

I am about 1/2 deaf from gunfire, but not small arms.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

As long as we stick to the legal aspects, those "fuel filters" are legal to own. You just can't modify them to create a functional silencer until you file a Form 1 and have your tax stamp back. Then, it's all copacetic and you are free to build said silencer.
Form 1 approvals done via a trust and through eFile are coming back in a little over a month, according to NFA Tracker.
Then, since you manufactured it, you can alter the baffles once they wear out.
$222 total doesn't sound too bad to me.

They even mention it on the page linked:


> Note: You can build a .22 suppressor on an ATF Form 1 using a fuel filter. This is not a how to, just documenting build for entertainment purposes. Be sure to have an approved Form 1 before building a suppressor or any other NFA item. Form 1's are turning around in just a couple weeks these days while Form 4's are taking almost a year.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I have heard these are higher quality and not made in China. Made from titanium, carbon steel or aluminum . I have no real world knowledge of the subject.

https://solventtrapsdirect.com/


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> I have heard these are higher quality and not made in China. Made from titanium, carbon steel or aluminum . I have no real world knowledge of the subject.
> 
> https://solventtrapsdirect.com/


More like it needs to be.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Im not up on the law on these, but I've heard that as long as you don't drill the end cap it's legal to own. I may buy one to have before the door on them is closed.


Kauboy said:


> As long as we stick to the legal aspects, those "fuel filters" are legal to own. You just can't modify them to create a functional silencer until you file a Form 1 and have your tax stamp back. Then, it's all copacetic and you are free to build said silencer.
> Form 1 approvals done via a trust and through eFile are coming back in a little over a month, according to NFA Tracker.
> Then, since you manufactured it, you can alter the baffles once they wear out.
> $222 total doesn't sound too bad to me.
> ...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

keith9365 said:


> Im not up on the law on these, but I've heard that as long as you don't drill the end cap it's legal to own. I may buy one to have before the door on them is closed.


Right, but the ATF likes to use a big umbrella called "constructive possession" to catch people.
Basically, if you have the ability to have the thing, you essentially have the thing. It is largely used to determine who "owns" a restricted thing. If you have a silencer, registered to you as an individual, and your wife knows the combination to the safe it's in, then she is violating the law when you are not present. She has "constructive possession" of the restricted item, and isn't allowed to.

Likewise, if you have all the components for an automatic rifle, but you don't assemble them together, you've still violated the law.
I think that's why these kits have no holes in any baffles or in the end cap. You aren't close to having a silencer without some work involved. If it was just the end cap that needed drilling, and you had a drill bit to do it, you'd likely be considered in violation as far as the ATF is concerned, since you're only ~2 minutes from having a functional silencer. You might win your case, but they still get to force you into a jail cell, a courtroom, and potential bankruptcy.

Just know your risk.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Right, but the ATF likes to use a big umbrella called "constructive possession" to catch people.
> Basically, if you have the ability to have the thing, you essentially have the thing. It is largely used to determine who "owns" a restricted thing. If you have a silencer, registered to you as an individual, and your wife knows the combination to the safe it's in, then she is violating the law when you are not present. She has "constructive possession" of the restricted item, and isn't allowed to.
> 
> Likewise, if you have all the components for an automatic rifle, but you don't assemble them together, you've still violated the law.
> ...


 You did not break the law. But we think you might. There fore we will skip right to jail for you and save everyone some time. Kind of like Randy Weaver. we will just sneak up and kill everyone. Notice how this way of thinking leads to crimes like what they did to Flynn. He never broke a law they just made one up. And like Flynn they will threaten to jail your wife , children , mom or dad maybe all of them.
In some case they take gun parts and assemble them on weapons they were never on , then charge you with a crime. I have parts that in some states are legal on one gun but not another. LE will just move the parts. been through that one. What saved my but was a smart Judge. They put it together wrong.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Yall may find this interesting as we did talk about this.

""Nollett used the Internet to purchase a device that, while marketed as a 'fuel filter,' is known to law enforcement to be frequently purchased by individuals for use as a firearm silencer," according to the release."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-ex-con-possession-weapons


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Yall may find this interesting as we did talk about this.
> 
> ""Nollett used the Internet to purchase a device that, while marketed as a 'fuel filter,' is known to law enforcement to be frequently purchased by individuals for use as a firearm silencer," according to the release."
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-ex-con-possession-weapons


Since the guy was a felon, that would be the only way for him to acquire one through normal means. Purchasing one illegally would be amazingly expensive.

UPDATE: Paperwork is done for my silencer. Everything was filed through a SilencerShop kiosk. It was a pretty easy process.
I ordered the can from a dealer online. They shipped it to my FFL who has a SilencerShop kiosk in their store. I filled out everything through the kiosk to set up my account, do fingerprints, add my photo, etc... The fingerprints were a bit of a pain, but not too bad.
I set it up by indicating that I would be using my own trust. This was the step I'd not understood fully. Since SS offers their own trust, I wanted to be sure I was going to be using my own, and not their "One Shot" option. While that's nice and all, it's basically 1 firearm per trust. So you have to get new ones if you get new firearms you want to be owned by a trust.
Going with my own, I indicated this on the kiosk form, and provided the name. I didn't add my wife yet, so I didn't have to go through the additional trustees form, which would add time and a bit of complication to filling it all out, but not too bad either.
Then the rep said I would receive an email a few days later requesting that I attach my trust document to the form.
That arrived 2 days later, a simple link sending me to my online SilencerShop form where I could attach a scanned in copy of my trust in PDF form. Easy Peasy.
I could even correct my photo too, using their handy phone app. The one they took at the shop didn't comply with one of the recommendations, and I wanted it to go smoothly, so I retook it to comply with every recommendation.

Since the ATF isn't currently accepting eForm submissions for Form 4, everything is going through as paper. So SilencerShop will review my info and put together the form for submission. I don't know if I get some kind of confirmation when this is sent or not.
Anyone know?

All in all, an easy experience. I was worried at the beginning that I would have to buy my can through a SilencerShop vendor on their site, and they all had much higher prices. I was pleased to learn this wasn't the case. If your FFL has a kiosk, you can still use their simple submission no matter where you purchased the item from. Just have it sent there, and they become the new dealer.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Building your own with a form 1 means you wait less time for your tax stamp to come back. Average time for a form 1 is about a month, the guys that buy and transfer them with the form 4 can take a long time. My brother has been waiting for 9 months.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

dsdmmat said:


> Building your own with a form 1 means you wait less time for your tax stamp to come back. Average time for a form 1 is about a month, the guys that buy and transfer them with the form 4 can take a long time. My brother has been waiting for 9 months.


That was debated on. I strongly considered it.
But, being my first one, I decided to go with a manufactured option. Tested and proven, I can't screw up the fabricating, and a warranty to boot.

Still, I might look into it for a .22 can.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Since the guy was a felon, that would be the only way for him to acquire one through normal means. Purchasing one illegally would be amazingly expensive.
> 
> UPDATE: Paperwork is done for my silencer. Everything was filed through a SilencerShop kiosk. It was a pretty easy process.
> I ordered the can from a dealer online. They shipped it to my FFL who has a SilencerShop kiosk in their store. I filled out everything through the kiosk to set up my account, do fingerprints, add my photo, etc... The fingerprints were a bit of a pain, but not too bad.
> ...


 Reading that carefully. It seems that buy the fuel filter is what got them looking at him. it appears he had been getting away with his crimes and maybe, the fuel filter caused someone to take a closer look at his.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Reading that carefully. It seems that buy the fuel filter is what got them looking at him. it appears he had been getting away with his crimes and maybe, the fuel filter caused someone to take a closer look at his.


Oh! I missed that when I read it.
I'm sure they keep an eye on everyone who buys one of those. You really should start the whole Form 1 process before every buying one.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Oh! I missed that when I read it.
> I'm sure they keep an eye on everyone who buys one of those. You really should start the whole Form 1 process before every buying one.


 yes person was a prohibited anyway. he had been some how getting away with buying fire arms parts and building Assembling them. It seems he ordered the fuel filter and that was got him caught. This would lead me to think they are watching those purchases.


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## 13JFO (Jun 2, 2020)

I'm glad this thread popped up. I'm in the middle of doing a Form 1 right now having did some due diligence/research, I've quickly come to the conclusion building is much better than buying. A lot of vendors making some very nice and easy to machine parts, and the Form 1 application only takes about 2-4 weeks compared to, oh, a year or longer on a Form 4 purchased suppressor. I'll be in about $500 for a beautifully machined titanium, lightweight setup and should have my tax stamp in about two weeks. If you take your time and find the right stuff, you can build a suppressor that's more effective and less expensive than any store-bought SilencerCo or Gemtech.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

13JFO said:


> I'm glad this thread popped up. I'm in the middle of doing a Form 1 right now having did some due diligence/research, I've quickly come to the conclusion building is much better than buying. A lot of vendors making some very nice and easy to machine parts, and the Form 1 application only takes about 2-4 weeks compared to, oh, a year or longer on a Form 4 purchased suppressor. I'll be in about $500 for a beautifully machined titanium, lightweight setup and should have my tax stamp in about two weeks. If you take your time and find the right stuff, you can build a suppressor that's more effective and less expensive than any store-bought SilencerCo or Gemtech.


Have you found a good way to build a QD silencer? The one I ended up getting has a quick disconnect muzzle break that stays affixed to the barrel, and the silencer slips on and ratchets down. It can be undone just as quickly, and the muzzle threads are never exposed to potential damage.
Is there a DIY kit or good method for building one of these types? It was a big selling point for going the buy rather than build route.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Lots of good reading on the subject on this forum.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Silencers-Build-It-Yourself/55/


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Form 4 submitted: 5/21/2020
Tax check cashed: 6/18/2020
Form 4 approved: 11/04/2020
In hand: 12/01/2020

Got the QD muzzle device attached today. The guy who installed it said it was slightly off from perfect concentricity, but his barrel gauge showed it would still clear with no baffle strikes.
He said it was likely the muzzle shoulder face not being perfectly perpendicular to the bore.
Even if it might never cause an issue, is it pretty normal work for a gunsmith to true-up that shoulder? What would that cost?
Since it would likely mean putting the barrel in a lathe, that means a partial teardown of the upper receiver, right? I guess it would depend on his equipment.

In any case, 194 days for a trust Form 4 process is awesome!
NFA Tracker has been showing a significant downward trend in approval times, so I had high hopes mine was coming soon.
I'm stoked!
Might get a pic or two soon.

Now to Form 1 something.
Another can?
Make an SBR out of my AR pistol?
Decisions decision....


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Now to Form 1 something.
> Another can?
> Make an SBR out of my AR pistol?
> Decisions decision....


My Saker 762 QD attaches to their flash hider. I really like it.

I recommend SBR. I find attaching a suppressor to a carbine length rifle makes it too long and unbalanced. Shortening the barrel so that the combined length is back to 16" works best for me.


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

Demitri.14 said:


> A friend built one and it only took 23 days to get his tax stamp. That right there is a reason to build one !


Well I have been waiting since February of 2021 for my Tax Stamp, so go build one !


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