# Advice about adopting a dog.



## Kahlan

As some may know from some previous posts I have a fear of dogs due to having been attacked pretty severely in the past. My daughter was also bitten by a friends dog about 10 years ago badly enough that she required stitches. So we both are a little apprehensive. However it's not possible to be on this forum for very long before you realize the many benefits of having a dog. There's been numerous posts about just how plain awesome they are not only as security and defense but companionship. 

Anyway long story short I checked out my local animal shelter. They only have 4 dogs available right now. All 4 are Pit Bulls. I personally have nothing against pit bulls. I know it all depends on how an animal was raised and treated. But coming from a shelter I would have no way of knowing would I? For somebody with a fear of dogs a pit bull just doesn't seem the way to go with a first dog. Am I wrong? 

I was kinda leaning towards a Lab but I admit I really don't know the first thing about breeds.


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## TG

Also starting vet costs to consider. Checkups, vaccinations, Spay/Neuter surgery.. I wouldn't adopt a pit bull, lots of personal reasons.


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## AquaHull

Black or yellow labs are cool,the chocolate labs haven't been as cool in my experience.
Pits are fiercely loyal to their owners and are very smart.

I'd go lab myself but I hunt and live in The Great White North.


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## Arklatex

I have had pits before without issue and most turn out to be the best dog you ever had but there are better breeds out there IMO. They have an instinct to fight that was bred into them. I think you would be better off getting a puppy of another breed for your first dog.


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## AquaHull

There's a reason the only dogs available are pits.


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## Kahlan

AquaHull said:


> There's a reason the only dogs available are pits.


That's what I was thinking too.


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## Moonshinedave

Talking about dogs is just like talking about weapons, everyone will have their choice, and everyone will be right, that is why they are so many breeds. From your post, I would not start off with a pitbull from a shelter, for the reasons you have already mentioned. I am in favor of saving a dog from the shelter though. I'd go with a smaller or mid-size dog, no a small dog isn't going to chew up a bad guy, but they are great alarm systems.
No matter what dog you get be prepared to LOVE and take care of him/her, they deserve that much. And as TG mentioned don't forget to account for the expense of taking care of them, although if you get one from the shelter, it should already have it this year's shots and will be sprayed/neutered


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## HuntingHawk

Humane Society rather then animal shelter for adopting. Humane Society temperament tests their dogs plus has trainers on staff. Humane Society will take the time for you to get the right dog for you.


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## TXprepper

Also try looking for a Breed Rescue. They get a mix of puppies and older dogs from families that can't take care of them for heath or financial reasons.
We have a rescue Blue Heeler that came from an elderly couple that could not care for her do to their health.


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## A J

My advice would be to visit a couple breeders. Talk to them and tell them what you are looking for (companionship, loyalty, smartness ... whatever). 

You may need to talk with several breeders, but you will find one that says something like "I have a cross that is exactly like that, let me show you the bitch and sire", you'll see the parents and can then be put on the list waiting for that 'cross'. You might even be able to see an older sibling of the same cross. 

Picking a breed is important, but picking the litter is even MORE important. Labs are great, they are big and long haired, my personal bias is of a German Shorthaired Pointer, but I wouldn't recommend one in your situation (pups from the wrong litter of GSP's can be impossible!) other nice companions would be (retrievers or border collies). The border collies I've been around are really smart and a lot smaller than Labs/retrievers, (again, picking the right litter is as important as picking the right breed). It's really hard to make a case against labs though!

AJ

edited to add: As stated above, Breed rescues are a great alternative, many will let you 'try a dog out', just to make sure they find the right home for them.


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## DerBiermeister

Shelter rescues are the way to go -- but take the advice already given.

IMHO -- and this is some 70 years of owning dogs, NOTHING can compare to any kind of RETRIEVER breed. Doesn't really matter -- Golden Ret, Black Labs, Golden Labs, etc., etc. They are:

1. High on the list of SMART (may be edged out by poodles, but that is about it). 
2. The most family oriented dogs you'll ever find. Gentle and fun.
3. You simply never hear of a "vicious" retriever. 

Kahlan -- go to several pet shelters, and leave word with them what you are after. I have a neighbor lady who volunteers at our local shelter every Wed. She found us our latest pooch Sadie (a black lab mix) last February. We couldn't be happier.

Update -- I've just done a bit of research on the ten smartest dogs, and in every case the Border Collie comes in first, followed by poodles and then German Shepards. Golden Retrievers usually are shown 4th. But they are still listed as the best family dog.

"Retriever" is the key word.


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## Slippy

PM Smokin before you do anything.

Dogs are a big part of our lives and have been for years. Understand that Dogs are pack animals by nature and your family dynamics will determine the pack hierarchy of your new dog.

If you are slightly afraid of dogs due to an event in the past, I would not recommend an Adult Rescue Dog. Like others have said, they are there for a reason. Unless you are a trained professional,or an experienced highly dedicated dog owner, it is very difficult to retrain an old dog or erase a lifetime of habits.

Do your research on Breeds. Again Do Your Research on Breeds. Did I tell you that it's important to do your research on Breeds?

I'll add some more later as others add posts to this thread but take your time, this is not something that you jump into. IMO


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## HuntingHawk

Puppies are only cute puppies for a short time. Alittle more mature dog & you can see what its personality is like.


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## Kahlan

Thanks all. A lot of info here I never thought of. I tend to be a bit impulsive so definitely going to have to sloooow down and do this right. Never realized there was so much to consider.


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## Kahlan

Slippy said:


> PM Smokin before you do anything.


Way ahead of ya here


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## HuntingHawk

Most humane society dogs are not dumped or strays like animal control dogs. Many are from older people that can no longer take care of them. Or people who have lost their homes & now rent so can no longer have their dog.

Love comes easy to a dog. Its their trust you must gain.


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## Slippy

Border Collie; Highly intelligent, Obsessive Desire to WORK and must have a job to do otherwise they will wreak havoc. Expect to spend a LOT of time with them from ages 1-5. The training potential is limitless. They tend to shed hair most of the year. Generally Border Collies are not good for young children as they tend to herd them, chase them and knock them down. Great companions for someone with lots of land. I do not recommend a Border Collie for a first time dog owner.

View attachment 8164


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## HuntingHawk

Don't adopt a dog the first time you check it out. If you check out a dog in the morning check it out the next day or two but at a different time of day. Most important is if the dog remembers you & happy to see you. You also want to be with the dog & primary trainer.


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## DerBiermeister

Slippy said:


> PM Smokin before you do anything.
> 
> Dogs are a big part of our lives and have been for years. Understand that Dogs are pack animals by nature and your family dynamics will determine the pack hierarchy of your new dog.
> 
> If you are slightly afraid of dogs due to an event in the past, I would not recommend an Adult Rescue Dog. Like others have said, they are there for a reason. Unless you are a trained professional,or an experienced highly dedicated dog owner, it is very difficult to retrain an old dog or erase a lifetime of habits.
> 
> Do your research on Breeds. Again Do Your Research on Breeds. Did I tell you that it's important to do your research on Breeds?
> 
> I'll add some more later as others add posts to this thread but take your time, this is not something that you jump into. IMO


Yes -- but keep in mind that every rescue dog has it's own story, and not all of them are troubling. You'll find the shelters are very honest about the dog's background. For instance, my Sadie -- who we got last February when she was just one year old -- had been turned in by a young girl who could not afford to keep and raise Sadie's new litter of puppies. So Sadie and the pups were put into the shelter for new homes. We immediately liked Sadie because of her interaction with our other dog -- 11 year old Casey, who had lost her sister a year ago.

One of the nice things about shelters, is that you can spend time with the dogs and even bring them home as Fostering before deciding on whether the dog is "right" for you. So consider that option. I also have nothing wrong with going to a breeder. More expensive, but pretty neat too. All of my prior dogs before Sadie were from breeders.

I guess Kahlan -- what you really have to do is to get off your butt and start the process. Visit the shelters, look in the want ads for breeders. Ask around. Go to vets offices and ask them -- even post notices on their bulletin boards. You'll learn a lot doing all of this.


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## HuntingHawk

I only rescue rotties & have done so for over 20 years. I usually have 4-7 here. Some due to issues are here permanently. Others I work with to get ready for their next home.

A few years ago local humane society had a young female rottie that their temperment tester flagged as dog aggreesive. They called the nearest rottie rescue who called me to check her out. As the trainer walked the dog outside went past a bunch of other dogs. Within minutes I knew she wasn't dog aggressive as she only reacted to dogs aggressive towards her. Within half an hour I went out to my truck & had her walking around with saddlebags on & prancing like she was hot stuff. Now, every time they get a rottie in I get the call to temperament test them.


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## Slippy

View attachment 8165
View attachment 8166


Ahhhhh, what a cute little Australian Cattle Dog! Soooo Sweeeet! Mommy I want one!

NO!

STOP RIGHT THERE AND RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN! They are not the breed for a first time dog owner. Yes, they are loyal, smart, strong and will defend you and your home. But I think it was Smitty who told me, they are like a strong 5 year old child with jaws of steel and teeth! They will jump and spring around you like a gymnast on too much coffee. They need room and lots of work. They shed a very fine undercoating of fur that will drive you nuts.

And they will love you like no other and will follow you around "asking" questions and getting their grimy little paws into anything and everything, like a real strong 5 year old child with jaws of steel and teeth who can jump higher and run faster than you can imagine.

Damnit....I got to go, Beasley has somehow pulled the attic stairs down and is now eating the insulation in the attic!


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## HuntingHawk

One option that hasn't been mentioned & that is to volunteer at the local humane society. You can learn about the different breeds, learn from the vet tech, learn from the trainers, etc.


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## tirednurse

get a Labradoodle. very smart and can be taught anything. very friendly and love everyone, but are smart enough to know the difference between friend and enemy. great family dogs. they get their friendly personality from the Lab and tons of intelligence from the poodle. the two breeds are the smartest dogs there are. Also much less chance of having problems with hip dysplasia since they are a mixed breed.


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## HuntingHawk




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## MI.oldguy

Slippy said:


> Border Collie; Highly intelligent, Obsessive Desire to WORK and must have a job to do otherwise they will wreak havoc. Expect to spend a LOT of time with them from ages 1-5. The training potential is limitless. They tend to shed hair most of the year. Generally Border Collies are not good for young children as they tend to herd them, chase them and knock them down. Great companions for someone with lots of land. I do not recommend a Border Collie for a first time dog owner.
> 
> View attachment 8164


Yeah Slippy!,Border collies rock!.our Border/Lab mix is the most gentle yet protective dog we have had.I second borders!.Kahlan,just be prepared to give a lot of love,time and affection and, a lot of long walks if you do not have the amount of land for a dog to roam on.the lab mix seems not to want to herd as much fyi,this one is pretty mellow.

Here's ours,


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## Kauboy

I can't say enough about my German Shepherd. Smartest dog I've owned.
Regardless of breed, find a *good* breeder or make sure you *know* a dog's history.

I would not recommend a pit bull as a first time dog, and not one that is older since you won't know their backstory.
A pup can be raised properly, socialized correctly, and be a wonderful family dog, but it takes lots of time and you have to know how to handle them.
They are a loyal breed, but they are stubborn as all get out. Those two characteristics are why they were chosen to be fighting dogs.
The muscle strength helped. They have a strong desire to please their master, and they have a high tolerance for pain and annoyance. This can make them great family dogs.
It can also make them accept and excel at fighting, which is the downside.
The breed has received a very bad rap due to bad humans.
Pass on the shelter pits.


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## Slippy

MI.oldguy said:


> Yeah Slippy!,Border collies rock!.our Border/Lab mix is the most gentle yet protective dog we have had.I second borders!.Kahlan,just be prepared to give a lot of love,time and affection and, a lot of long walks if you do not have the amount of land for a dog to roam on.the lab mix seems not to want to herd as much fyi,this one is pretty mellow.
> 
> Here's ours,


Great dog MIoldguy! I remember you talking about yours before, they are fun and smart.

I think you've hit in something like TiredNurse. With the Border Collie/Lab mix you've got the best of both breeds. Same with tirednurse's lab/poodle mix.


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## HuntingHawk

If you don't like getting dog hair on your clothing then don't sit on the furniture. The dogs live here.


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## HuntingHawk




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## MI.oldguy

HuntingHawk said:


> If you don't like getting dog hair on your clothing then don't sit on the furniture. The dogs live here.


Amen to that.


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## Slippy

On a side note, I'm on vacation at home today, sitting in my chair reading the PF. Mrs Slippy is down in the basement working out on her Stairmaster. Beasley must be with her because every few minutes I hear her sceaming in that voice that I know so well...NO Beasley, or... STOP THAT! or DAMN YOU DOG, PUT THAT DOWN, or...SLIPPY COME GET YOUR DOG! 

Hee Hee


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## tirednurse

HuntingHawk said:


> If you don't like getting dog hair on your clothing then don't sit on the furniture. The dogs live here.


wont have that problem with a Labradoodle. they don't shed. poodle hair is hair like ours, not fur like other dogs.


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## Kahlan

Here's some more considerations. I have land but it isn't fenced. I'm not sure how that works exactly, I'm out in the country but I guess I'd have to check on that. Also would need a dog that is good with the chickens. And does sex matter?


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## HuntingHawk

The big male goes from napping to warp speed in two steps.


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## jimb1972

I generally lean towards mutts, but generally mutts of the Lab/Golden retreiver lineage. Never met a mean Golden in my life. Current Mutt's mom was a Rottweiler, but I am guessing dad must have been a lab because of her size shape and coloring.


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## Slippy

Kahlan said:


> ...And does sex matter?


I said it yesterday and I'll repeat it today, you have BECOME the Master. Bravissimo!


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## Ripley

There are so many things to consider when getting a dog. While every breed has its good and bad points, much also depends on the history of the dog. I have seen families with several dogs, all wonderful and well-behaved. One of my customers had 7 Schnauzers. Every single one was a breeze to groom. The owner (Sandy) was always in charge of them, the boss. I have had other customers with ill behaved dogs every time. People who aren't cut out to be pack masters have the worst behaved dogs. A dog's purpose in life is to be the leader of the pack. You have to be the leader in order to have a well-behaved companion. 

Because you have a child, I would be extremely careful about adopting an adult dog. Puppies can be a pain, they take a lot of training. I know that, but also know that you can control what the animal turns into as it matures. The temperament of the parents of the animal is also a huge factor. 

Do as much research as you can, find a good breeder, and meet the parents. Paying for pick of the litter isn't a bad idea. You can choose the puppy that is in the middle, the one that doesn't cower and doesn't bowl you over with nibbles.


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## HuntingHawk

Kahlan said:


> Here's some more considerations. I have land but it isn't fenced. I'm not sure how that works exactly, I'm out in the country but I guess I'd have to check on that. Also would need a dog that is good with the chickens. And does sex matter?


Sex won't matter since it will be the only dog.

Chickens should be fine since they are there when the dog arrives at the home. Dog will think they are suppose to be there.

To adopt from a humane society you will need some fencing. Enough space that the dog can run off leash.


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## A J

Slippy said:


> On a side note, I'm on vacation at home today, sitting in my chair reading the PF. Mrs Slippy is down in the basement working out on her Stairmaster. Beasley must be with her because every few minutes I hear her sceaming in that voice that I know so well...NO Beasley, or... STOP THAT! or DAMN YOU DOG, PUT THAT DOWN, or...SLIPPY COME GET YOUR DOG!
> 
> Hee Hee


I completely understand! Our current dog is a 1/2 Beagle + 1/2 Jack Russel Terrier. He's 'VERY' attentive. Now that he's 6 yrs old, he's slowing down a 'little'. He's just a bit too independent though, but he's a good 360 degree perimeter alarm!

AJ


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## ntxwheels

Kahlan, I'll not try to steer toward any particular breed. Rather I'll tell you a few of the basics.

First off; all dogs are 'pack dogs'. Meaning they are happiest living in a group or pack setting. It may be that the 'pack' consists of like in my case, my wife, myself and the Zeus the big white pup. Depending on the breed if they're not raised and trained properly, the will literally try to control the 'pack'. So be ready for some work on your part to prevent that happening.

Secondly; Please if you get a dog, don't leave him chained in the yard. Open your home to him/her and make it part of your family. You can't imagine the love and companionship they give completely unselfishly.

Third, training never ends. Even after you teach and train your dog or have it professionally trained, they need to be worked with regularly to keep them sharp. A good example is yesterday. Had I not trained Zeus to alert me 'quietly' he would have most likely just starting raising a ruckus and barked insanely, which might have allowed the punk to get away before I could get out there. Zeus, myself and my wife do a review session if you will, for 30 minutes twice weekly.

Those are just a few of the many things to think of when getting a dog.

Oh, since the photos of Zeus were of him sleeping, here's one I call his 'glamor shot'.


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## Kahlan

Slippy said:


> I said it yesterday and I'll repeat it today, you have BECOME the Master. Bravissimo!


I'm laughing so hard I have tears....
Gonna go sit in the corner now. I need to contemplate my life.


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## Ripley

tirednurse said:


> wont have that problem with a Labradoodle. they don't shed. poodle hair is hair like ours, not fur like other dogs.


Actually, this is a misconception. You cannot control if the animal gets lab type fur (which shed a TON) or poodle type fur. They may get a mix of the two, or lean more toward one type or the other. Some Doodles shed profusely.

I hate to disagree, but after owning a salon for over 16 years, I have seen enough unhappy people. Owners listen to misconception, buy a dog who is "hypoallergenic" or non shedding and are sorely disappointed. This ends sadly for the animal, often sent to a shelter or passed around.


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## Kahlan

ntxwheels said:


> Kahlan, I'll not try to steer toward any particular breed. Rather I'll tell you a few of the basics.
> 
> First off; all dogs are 'pack dogs'. Meaning they are happiest living in a group or pack setting. It may be that the 'pack' consists of like in my case, my wife, myself and the Zeus the big white pup. Depending on the breed if they're not raised and trained properly, the will literally try to control the 'pack'. So be ready for some work on your part to prevent that happening.
> 
> Secondly; Please if you get a dog, don't leave him chained in the yard. Open your home to him/her and make it part of your family. You can't imagine the love and companionship they give completely unselfishly.
> 
> Third, training never ends. Even after you teach and train your dog or have it professionally trained, they need to be worked with regularly to keep them sharp. A good example is yesterday. Had I not trained Zeus to alert me 'quietly' he would have most likely just starting raising a ruckus and barked insanely, which might have allowed the punk to get away before I could get out there. Zeus, myself and my wife do a review session if you will, for 30 minutes twice weekly.
> 
> Those are just a few of the many things to think of when getting a dog.
> 
> Oh, since the photos of Zeus were of him sleeping, here's one I call his 'glamor shot'.


That is a *beautiful* dog! And your adventures yesterday was the final nudge I needed.


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## HuntingHawk

Alpha female or alpha male. In your circumstance, I would say a female would be the better choice. A male dog could easily & continually challenge your husband as alpha male. But if you & your daughter both work with a female she will accept her place as #3 female though there will be some challenges.


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## Arklatex

Kahlan said:


> Here's some more considerations. I have land but it isn't fenced. I'm not sure how that works exactly, I'm out in the country but I guess I'd have to check on that. Also would need a dog that is good with the chickens. And does sex matter?


I had a wireless fence up to contain the dogs until I built a real fence. It worked great for my labs. They quickly learned what the beeping of the collar meant and only got hit a couple times. But a real fence is much better.

A male dog will run off all the time and piss on everything if you don't have them fixed. A female will draw in all the wild dogs as well as neighborhood dogs when she goes into heat. Then you will have to deal with puppies and fighting. As long as you spay/neuter I don't think it matters.


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## tirednurse

Ripley said:


> Actually, this is a misconception. You cannot control if the animal gets lab type fur (which shed a TON) or poodle type fur. They may get a mix of the two, or lean more toward one type or the other. Some Doodles shed profusely.
> 
> I hate to disagree, but after owning a salon for over 16 years, I have seen enough unhappy people. Owners listen to misconception, buy a dog who is "hypoallergenic" or non shedding and are sorely disappointed. This ends sadly for the animal, often sent to a shelter or passed around.


somewhat true. if you get a first of second generation you may still get the lab fur. I have only multi gen who all have the soft curly hair that does not shed. you could brush for hours and never see hair in the brush.


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## tirednurse

HuntingHawk said:


> Alpha female or alpha male. In your circumstance, I would say a female would be the better choice. A male dog could easily & continually challenge your husband as alpha male. But if you & your daughter both work with a female she will accept her place as #3 female though there will be some challenges.


aggressive is not due to the gender of the dog. it more of a personality thing. my girls will circle an intruder and not let them move or if it does attack and demolish. my boys who are not fixed only get upset with other dogs if a girl is in heat.


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## Ripley

tirednurse said:


> somewhat true. if you get a first of second generation you may still get the lab fur. I have only multi gen who all have the soft curly hair that does not shed. you could brush for hours and never see hair in the brush.


Not somewhat true. Completely true. Gotta research before you understand, study genetics.


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## Kahlan

The dog that attacked me was a female. I was just walking down the sidewalk in a residential neighborhood and a homeowner had not latched their gate. As I walked by the house the dog came running out of the gate and attacked me. The police said later that she was a nursing mother and may have seen me as a threat to her pups. Mind you I was just walking down the sidewalk, I didn't even know she was there. By the time her owners realized what was going on she'd laid my leg open to the bone.

So I don't have anything against females, especially since I'd make sure she was spayed but I do know they _can_ be aggressive. I also understand what everybody is saying though about how they're raised, temperaments etc.


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## tirednurse

Ripley said:


> Not somewhat true. Completely true. Gotta research before you understand, study genetics.


I don't need to do further research. I have been breeding them for 15 years. I also know how they need to be bred in order to be nonallergenic. My dogs are used for the medically fragile and those who have allergies that could kill them. One of them being my own sister. I would not endanger someone by sending them a dog that I was not positive would not cause them issue. I have 12 of them living in my home and they take turns coming to work with me. I do not have a home covered in dog hair, my car has no hair, and my patient's homes are safe from their hair also.


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## James m

Beagles?


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## HuntingHawk




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## Ripley

tirednurse said:


> I don't need to do further research. I have been breeding them for 15 years. I also know how they need to be bred in order to be nonallergenic. My dogs are used for the medically fragile and those who have allergies that could kill them. One of them being my own sister. I would not endanger someone by sending them a dog that I was not positive would not cause them issue. I have 12 of them living in my home and they take turns coming to work with me. I do not have a home covered in dog hair, my car has no hair, and my patient's homes are safe from their hair also.


That's foolish. This is how pet owners get fooled by breeders making outlandish claims. Allergens are in the sloughed skin. Are you going to claim your dogs don't have skin? That's ridiculous. DO YOUR RESEARCH lady.

And only a fool says they need no further education.


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## ntxwheels

Kahlan said:


> The dog that attacked me was a female. I was just walking down the sidewalk in a residential neighborhood and a homeowner had not latched their gate. As I walked by the house the dog came running out of the gate and attacked me. The police said later that she was a nursing mother and may have seen me as a threat to her pups. Mind you I was just walking down the sidewalk, I didn't even know she was there. By the time her owners realized what was going on she'd laid my leg open to the bone.
> 
> So I don't have anything against females, especially since I'd make sure she was spayed but I do know they _can_ be aggressive. I also understand what everybody is saying though about how they're raised, temperaments etc.


I wasn't going to get into this, but I think your fear is very deep rooted. So let me tell you bout my experience.

I was 13, on my bicycle delivering papers on my route. A big male German Shepard came out of nowhere and nailed me. He bit into my thigh and then ran off.
I got up finished my route and then when I got home, My Grand Dad took me to the ER. Since we didn't know who the dog belonged to (had never seen it before on my route) The Doc said if we didn't find it by the next day I would have to take the Rabies Vaccine. Well we didn't find it so I started the shots the next after noon.
Now this was back in the time you 14 shots, all in the stomach muscles. I got 7 the first day and 7 the second.

My point Kahlan is this. What happened to both you and I, was one of those things no one can really explain. It would be understandable if we both were deathly afraid of dogs for life. But what happened is NOT the norm for humans interacting with dogs.

A dog if raised with love and simple discipline will lay down it's life in defense of its master without hesitation.

Find dog/breed you want, raise it with love and you will not believe the joy and happiness it brings into your life.


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## tirednurse

Ripley said:


> That's foolish. This is how pet owners get fooled by breeders making outlandish claims. Allergens are in the sloughed skin. Are you going to claim your dogs don't have skin? That's ridiculous. DO YOUR RESEARCH lady.
> 
> And only a fool says they need no further education.[/QUOTE
> 
> I have watched my sister almost die several time due to dog allergies from just being in a building they have been in. Since we were little kids I have watch her struggle to breath, watched the life drain from her face as she turned blue. Is this not enough research? I have watched the panic in her eyes when she can not breath because she got to close to a dog. I have also worked with others with asthma and allergies. I Don't need to see that any more to understand their needs. I have also watched many times the joy people have when they find they can have a dog that does not cause them to feel this way. My sister has 8 labradoodles who she is in close contact with constantly. They sleep in her room, some even on her bed. She has never had a reaction to them in the 15 years she has had them. I get letters all the time from people who have had her issues who now are able to have their own dogs. I send my dogs to hospital, nursing homes and therapy facilities all over the country. I get nothing but complements and amazement that these dogs are nonallergenic and cause no problem for people with allergies.
> 
> seems to me I am not the one needing to do more research.


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## Ripley

Don't give me your sob crap. My son has asthma and allergies. No way would my "experience" with it negate researching. I don't argue often, and only when I am 100% sure I am correct. I am educated, two degrees on my wall with a third coming in a year. You are not researching because you cannot/will not face the fact that you are wrong. Pull your head out of the sand.


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## Slippy

When I was in college I worked in a bar. Sometimes I would work the door taking the cover charge on the nights we had a band. We had official bouncers and my main job was bartender but I was fairly strong and athletic and could handle myself but the owners saw me as trustworthy and let me handle the cover charge cash. But I would be called on every now and then to stop a fight. 

My very first bar fight as a Door Man was breaking up a fight between 2 chicks. As I made my way over to where the two "ladies" were handling their disagreement I knew something was not right. But I continued. As soon as I stepped in, they both turned on me with a vengeance equal to 10 men. I barely got out of their with my life and dignity.

Anyway, I'll let Ripley and TiredNurse go at. Pro-ceede Ladies...


----------



## Ripley

Kahlan, I am sorry for hijacking your thread, but dogs are my passion and have been my livelihood for over 16 years. I won't let it go if someone is doing wrong by them.


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## jimb1972

Dogs of the same breed will differ in temperament even when raised in loving households. I had a German Shepherd when I was a kid, and He was a great dog, but fiercely protective so much so that I could not play with my friends in the yard freely, because if He thought they were a threat to me for any reason He would not hesitate to defend me. Very intelligent dog, one of his favorite games was to wait for the meter reader to get right up to the fence (meter was just on the other side) and when the poor bastard was right up to it He would hit it on the run only barking right as he hit it. Scared the crap out of them, but you could tell he enjoyed the heck out of it. He also would escape from the yard (before we put up a taller gate with a latch he could not reach) and wait on the neighbors back porch until She gave him a cookie.


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## Arklatex

Ladies chill... here is a picture to calm you down:


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## tirednurse

Ripley said:


> Don't give me your sob crap. My son has asthma and allergies. No way would my "experience" with it negate researching. I don't argue often, and only when I am 100% sure I am correct. I am educated, two degrees on my wall with a third coming in a year. You are not researching because you cannot/will not face the fact that you are wrong. Pull your head out of the sand.


I am not arguing with you. get your head out of your a** and go do some research yourself. Try researching some people who live with these dogs and let them tell you how it really is. you are not 100 % correct. You are looking at a very small piece of the dog world. I couldn't care less about how many degrees you have. I already have 3 and now working on a masters. book education means very little in real life.

end of discussion.


----------



## Arklatex

Slippy said:


> When I was in college I worked in a bar. Sometimes I would work the door taking the cover charge on the nights we had a band. We had official bouncers and my main job was bartender but I was fairly strong and athletic and could handle myself but the owners saw me as trustworthy and let me handle the cover charge cash. But I would be called on every now and then to stop a fight.
> 
> My very first bar fight as a Door Man was breaking up a fight between 2 chicks. As I made my way over to where the two "ladies" were handling their disagreement I knew something was not right. But I continued. As soon as I stepped in, they both turned on me with a vengeance equal to 10 men. I barely got out of their with my life and dignity.
> 
> Anyway, I'll let Ripley and TiredNurse go at. Pro-ceede Ladies...


Uh oh... I didn't read this before I told them to chill. I'm a start running right now!


----------



## ntxwheels

Slippy said:


> When I was in college I worked in a bar. Sometimes I would work the door taking the cover charge on the nights we had a band. We had official bouncers and my main job was bartender but I was fairly strong and athletic and could handle myself but the owners saw me as trustworthy and let me handle the cover charge cash. But I would be called on every now and then to stop a fight.
> 
> My very first bar fight as a Door Man was breaking up a fight between 2 chicks. As I made my way over to where the two "ladies" were handling their disagreement I knew something was not right. But I continued. As soon as I stepped in, they both turned on me with a vengeance equal to 10 men. I barely got out of their with my life and dignity.
> 
> Anyway, I'll let Ripley and TiredNurse go at. Pro-ceede Ladies...


Slippy I hear ya. Worst whippin I ever took was when I tried to separate my sister and another gal fighting over a guy. I swear they had 16 arms, 20 legs and 10 sets of teeth...


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## MI.oldguy

I must correct myself from my Border/lab post,our dog is great but,in the heat of the dog posts another breed come to mind.

Flatcoated retriever,they are gentle,kind and very intelligent.they need a place to run and play.they are called velcro dogs because you have to peel them off of you.

This is our Mistie,she was 13 when she passed.darn good dog also,one of the best breeds as far as I am concerned.....also,females seem to be the best dogs to us and,we don't breed them,we just save a life from a shelter.we don't pick them,they picked us.


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## tirednurse

Arklatex said:


> Ladies chill... here is a picture to calm you down:











nothing better than a little chocolate.


----------



## Ripley

tirednurse said:


> I am not arguing with you. get your head out of your a** and go do some research yourself. Try researching some people who live with these dogs and let them tell you how it really is. you are not 100 % correct. You are looking at a very small piece of the dog world. I couldn't care less about how many degrees you have. I already have 3 and now working on a masters. book education means very little in real life.
> 
> end of discussion.


End of discussion? Fool. I've seen enough of my customers buy dogs from ignorant, money hungry breeders. Sweet dogs I groom given away because they are not "hypoallergenic". Cash your checks. Let the greed money roll in. I have a clean conscience.


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## MI.oldguy

<EDIT,>Hey everybody!.can we just end this?.Kahlan wants some advice on a dog.not an argument....thanks for your consideration.


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## Ripley

MI.oldguy said:


> Ripley,can we just end this?.Kahlan wants some advice on a dog.not an argument....thanks for your consideration.


Of course.


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## TG

Men, please stop diminishing a discussion/argument between two women by calling them chicks and asking them to chill, it's demeaning.


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## Arklatex

TorontoGal said:


> Men, please stop diminishing a discussion/argument between two women by calling them chicks and asking them to chill, it's demeaning.


Sorry, that was not my intention.


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## GTGallop

Pits, Rotties, and other fighting dogs...

Pits, Rotties and other breeds that were typically bread for a defensive or even offensive posture and temperment can be EXCELLENT pets. The problem isn't the breed - its people and what they do with it. A properly bread dog that has been loved and nurtured is safe - regardless of breed. Any dog that has been overbread, inbread, and treated poorly can be a liability. There have been problems in collies that went crazy because breeders shrunk the size of the skull too much and they had stunted mental growth. Cocker Spaniels were over bread for a while and had aggressive issues. So were Corgis.

The problem with Pits and Rotties is that when you get a hold of one that you don't know the lineage of and history of love or abuse then you are buying an animal that is capable of great destruction and damage. We had a Boxer Lab mix - about 70 lbs. Super cute and lovable. Great dog. Lovable and loyal. Then one day out of the blue went BSCrazy. Savaged our other dog to death and tried to eat my daughters face. Had to put it down.

Personally I like to stick with dogs in the 30 to 40 pound range that are compact and dense. Herding dogs are great. We prefer Australian Cattle Dogs. Australian Shepherds (not related to Australia at all). And the Catahoula. Catahoula's are a straight up hoot to own.

Shelter dogs and mutt mixes make the best animals but yo have to get them when they are just tiny baby pups. Every shelter dog that I've had that was 1 year or more when I got them was a little hard to work with and train because of lingering issues in the shelter system or from previous owners.

Obedience training should be very thorough and intense - for YOU. Remember, dogs already know how to do all of the things you are training them to do. It is more about training you how to communicate like a dog. I've paid between $500 and $3000 per dog for dog training over the years and I've learned one thing - price is no indicator of quality.

One scam to watch out for: For some reason therre are a lot of schister trainers out there masquerading as Army Vets. They all have three things in common:
1. They never served.
2. They claim to have trained bomb / ied sniffing dogs. They claim to have taught parachuting dogs. And they claim to have trained some generals dogs as a personal favor.
3. They don't know what the Fuk they are doing.

I've seen that scam in Texas and Arizona now. Probably four or five times. No clue why it is so popular.


----------



## ntxwheels

GTGallop said:


> Pits, Rotties, and other fighting dogs...
> 
> Pits, Rotties and other breeds that were typically bread for a defensive or even offensive posture and temperment can be EXCELLENT pets. The problem isn't the breed - its people and what they do with it. A properly bread dog that has been loved and nurtured is safe - regardless of breed. Any dog that has been overbread, inbread, and treated poorly can be a liability. There have been problems in collies that went crazy because breeders shrunk the size of the skull too much and they had stunted mental growth. Cocker Spaniels were over bread for a while and had aggressive issues. So were Corgis.
> 
> The problem with Pits and Rotties is that when you get a hold of one that you don't know the lineage of and history of love or abuse then you are buying an animal that is capable of great destruction and damage. We had a Boxer Lab mix - about 70 lbs. Super cute and lovable. Great dog. Lovable and loyal. Then one day out of the blue went BSCrazy. Savaged our other dog to death and tried to eat my daughters face. Had to put it down.
> 
> Personally I like to stick with dogs in the 30 to 40 pound range that are compact and dense. Herding dogs are great. We prefer Australian Cattle Dogs. Australian Shepherds (not related to Australia at all). And the Catahoula. Catahoula's are a straight up hoot to own.
> 
> Shelter dogs and mutt mixes make the best animals but yo have to get them when they are just tiny baby pups. Every shelter dog that I've had that was 1 year or more when I got them was a little hard to work with and train because of lingering issues in the shelter system or from previous owners.
> 
> Obedience training should be very thorough and intense - for YOU. Remember, dogs already know how to do all of the things you are training them to do. It is more about training you how to communicate like a dog. I've paid between $500 and $3000 per dog for dog training over the years and I've learned one thing - price is no indicator of quality.
> 
> One scam to watch out for: For some reason therre are a lot of schister trainers out there masquerading as Army Vets. They all have three things in common:
> 1. They never served.
> 2. They claim to have trained bomb / ied sniffing dogs. They claim to have taught parachuting dogs. And they claim to have trained some generals dogs as a personal favor.
> 3. They don't know what the Fuk they are doing.
> 
> I've seen that scam in Texas and Arizona now. Probably four or five times. No clue why it is so popular.


Excellent post GT!


----------



## bigwheel

Kahlan said:


> As some may know from some previous posts I have a fear of dogs due to having been attacked pretty severely in the past. My daughter was also bitten by a friends dog about 10 years ago badly enough that she required stitches. So we both are a little apprehensive. However it's not possible to be on this forum for very long before you realize the many benefits of having a dog. There's been numerous posts about just how plain awesome they are not only as security and defense but companionship.
> 
> Anyway long story short I checked out my local animal shelter. They only have 4 dogs available right now. All 4 are Pit Bulls. I personally have nothing against pit bulls. I know it all depends on how an animal was raised and treated. But coming from a shelter I would have no way of knowing would I? For somebody with a fear of dogs a pit bull just doesn't seem the way to go with a first dog. Am I wrong?
> 
> I was kinda leaning towards a Lab but I admit I really don't know the first thing about breeds.


I have real mixed emotions on Pits. Most I have met seem nice but they can be big time hazardous to other animals and kids. Would not want one which I had not raised from a pup. Labs are great dogs from what I've heard. Know they shed a lot and you cant keep them out of the cement pond. Long legged American Rotties are the best..but again needs to be raised up from a pup...and they have a crazy child hood which lasts two years. No telling what kind of bad habits they could have picked up in a grown dog adoption situation. For a clowning around people dog Shitzus are nice.


----------



## Arklatex

Lol..


----------



## Kahlan

GTGallop said:


> Pits, Rotties, and other fighting dogs...
> 
> Pits, Rotties and other breeds that were typically bread for a defensive or even offensive posture and temperment can be EXCELLENT pets. The problem isn't the breed - its people and what they do with it. A properly bread dog that has been loved and nurtured is safe - regardless of breed. Any dog that has been overbread, inbread, and treated poorly can be a liability. There have been problems in collies that went crazy because breeders shrunk the size of the skull too much and they had stunted mental growth. Cocker Spaniels were over bread for a while and had aggressive issues. So were Corgis.
> 
> The problem with Pits and Rotties is that when you get a hold of one that you don't know the lineage of and history of love or abuse then you are buying an animal that is capable of great destruction and damage. We had a Boxer Lab mix - about 70 lbs. Super cute and lovable. Great dog. Lovable and loyal. Then one day out of the blue went BSCrazy. Savaged our other dog to death and tried to eat my daughters face. Had to put it down.
> 
> Personally I like to stick with dogs in the 30 to 40 pound range that are compact and dense. Herding dogs are great. We prefer Australian Cattle Dogs. Australian Shepherds (not related to Australia at all). And the Catahoula. Catahoula's are a straight up hoot to own.
> 
> Shelter dogs and mutt mixes make the best animals but yo have to get them when they are just tiny baby pups. Every shelter dog that I've had that was 1 year or more when I got them was a little hard to work with and train because of lingering issues in the shelter system or from previous owners.
> 
> Obedience training should be very thorough and intense - for YOU. Remember, dogs already know how to do all of the things you are training them to do. It is more about training you how to communicate like a dog. I've paid between $500 and $3000 per dog for dog training over the years and I've learned one thing - price is no indicator of quality.
> 
> One scam to watch out for: For some reason therre are a lot of schister trainers out there masquerading as Army Vets. They all have three things in common:
> 1. They never served.
> 2. They claim to have trained bomb / ied sniffing dogs. They claim to have taught parachuting dogs. And they claim to have trained some generals dogs as a personal favor.
> 3. They don't know what the Fuk they are doing.
> 
> I've seen that scam in Texas and Arizona now. Probably four or five times. No clue why it is so popular.


Thank you for this post GT. So sorry you went through that with your dog. Was your daughter ok?


----------



## Slippy

TorontoGal said:


> Men, please stop diminishing a discussion/argument between two women by calling them chicks and asking them to chill, it's demeaning.


(Slippy quietly whispers to his friend TG to please read his earlier post. Slippy referred to his pals, Tirednurse and Ripley as "Ladies". Slippy called the two ******* females in a bar fight "chicks" but he was being more than generous. )


----------



## ntxwheels

Slippy said:


> (Slippy quietly whispers to his friend TG to please read his earlier post. Slippy referred to his pals, Tirednurse and Ripley as "Ladies". Slippy called the two ******* females in a bar fight "chicks" but he was being more than generous. )


Heck! Here in Texas if they're fightin in a bar, we call em 'she cats'.


----------



## Slippy

ntxwheels said:


> Heck! Here in Texas if they're fightin in a bar, we call em 'she cats'.


I usually made a note to invite the winning female fighter to try out for our co-rec softball team. We were always looking for a good bull **** to play 2nd base or catcher.


----------



## Ripley

ntxwheels said:


> Heck! Here in Texas if they're fightin in a bar, we call em 'she cats'.


I'm a dog person, how about 'she dogs' or something equivalent? LOL


----------



## Hyperdyne

tirednurse said:


> end of discussion.


Nothing convinces me more than when someone says "end of discussion."

Unfortunately, it rarely convinces me of anything the person who says it would find flattering...


----------



## GTGallop

Kahlan said:


> Thank you for this post GT. So sorry you went through that with your dog. Was your daughter ok?


It was a very hard time for the family when a trusted member of the family caused damage internally. I still loved the dog, but I've got some hard and fast rules around this house and it starts with Rule #1 if you intentionally injure or maim someone inside the deepest circle of the family (wife, daughter, dogs, parents, me) - you die. No parole, no pardons, nothing.

My daughter felt like she had been betrayed and had a complete lack of trust for any living being for a few months. Nightmares and stuff. Only physical mark was a little cut on her cheek where the canine teeth grazed her and the little teeth up front nipped flesh. Neosporin and it got better in a week. No scar.

Now she loves dogs again and has no lingering issues. Regrettable, but it was a good lesson for her.


----------



## Kahlan

GTGallop said:


> It was a very hard time for the family when a trusted member of the family caused damage internally. I still loved the dog, but I've got some hard and fast rules around this house and it starts with Rule #1 if you intentionally injure or maim someone inside the deepest circle of the family (wife, daughter, dogs, parents, me) - you die. No parole, no pardons, nothing.
> 
> My daughter felt like she had been betrayed and had a complete lack of trust for any living being for a few months. Nightmares and stuff. Only physical mark was a little cut on her cheek where the canine teeth grazed her and the little teeth up front nipped flesh. Neosporin and it got better in a week. No scar.
> 
> Now she loves dogs again and has no lingering issues. Regrettable, but it was a good lesson for her.


Thank you for sharing. So relieved she was ok. Can't imagine what that did to her mentally but really glad she was able to bounce back with no lingering issues. She makes me look like a wuss. Taken me 20 years to get over it and it wasn't even family. Smart girl.


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## DerBiermeister

Looks like I am just going to have to bring you a retriever puppy and stop all this hand-wringing! ::clapping::

Kelly and Casey -- 11 years ago with a neighbor kid


----------



## Kahlan

DerBiermeister said:


> Looks like I am just going to have to bring you a retriever puppy and stop all this hand-wringing! ::clapping::
> 
> Kelly and Casey -- 11 years ago with a neighbor kid
> View attachment 8180


Heck yea, I vote for this solution!


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## Pathwacker

Black labs are fun. He is 10 years old now. We spent 4500 over a decade. Lots of eye infections, skin infections, torn acl. Ripped off dew claw, massive skin staph like infection.

We do not let him swim often. Probably once or twice a year now.


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## GTGallop

Can't argue with that.


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## ntxwheels

The cookie watcher..LOL

We were watching a movie and my wife was having some milk and cookies. He didn't let those cookies out of his sight.

Gives a general idea of his size. And he was the runt of the liter.


----------



## paraquack

I know I'm biased, but after fostering so many Goldies, well, you know...

An old Golden Retriever starts chasing rabbits and before long, discovers that he's lost. Wandering about, he notices a panther heading rapidly in his direction with the intention of having lunch. 

The old Golden Retriever thinks, "Oh, oh! I'm in deep shit now!"
Noticing some bones on the ground close by, he immediately settles down to chew on the bones with his back to the approaching cat. Just as the panther is about to leap, the old Golden Retriever exclaims loudly, "Boy, that was one delicious panther! I wonder, if there are any more around here?"

Hearing this, the young panther halts his attack in mid-strike, a look of terror comes over him and he slinks away into the trees. "Whew!," says the panther, "That was close! That old Golden Retriever nearly had me!"

Meanwhile, a squirrel who had been watching the whole scene from a nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for protection from the panther. So, off he goes. The squirrel soon catches up with the panther, spills the beans and strikes a deal for himself with the panther.

The young panther is furious at being made a fool of and says, "Here, squirrel, hop on my back and see what's going to happen to that conniving canine!"

Now, the old Golden Retriever sees the panther coming with the squirrel on his back and thinks, "What am I going to do now?," but instead of running, the dog sits down with his back to his attackers, pretending he hasn't seen them yet, and just when they get close enough to hear, the old Golden Retriever says...
"Damn, where's that squirrel? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another panther!"


----------



## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## James m

You could adopt me....

But I found a site called rescueme.org


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## ntxwheels

HuntingHawk said:


>


DAMMIT! Got coffee every where now. ROFLMAOPMS!


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## GTGallop

She does that too...


----------



## bigwheel

/


ntxwheels said:


> DAMMIT! Got coffee every where now. ROFLMAOPMS!


Got to steal that one too. sorry.


----------



## DerBiermeister

Pathwacker said:


> Black labs are fun. He is 10 years old now.


Awwww ........ *good boy!*


----------



## TG

ntxwheels said:


> The cookie watcher..LOL
> 
> We were watching a movie and my wife was having some milk and cookies. He didn't let those cookies out of his sight.
> 
> Gives a general idea of his size. And he was the runt of the liter.


Absolutely gorgeous


----------



## NZKiwi

Border Collies! Loyal, but I think they enjoy chasing burglars instead of attack them...


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## DerBiermeister

So ........... you want to see a smart dog?


----------



## Ragnarök

Kahlan said:


> As some may know from some previous posts I have a fear of dogs due to having been attacked pretty severely in the past. My daughter was also bitten by a friends dog about 10 years ago badly enough that she required stitches. So we both are a little apprehensive. However it's not possible to be on this forum for very long before you realize the many benefits of having a dog. There's been numerous posts about just how plain awesome they are not only as security and defense but companionship.
> 
> Anyway long story short I checked out my local animal shelter. They only have 4 dogs available right now. All 4 are Pit Bulls. I personally have nothing against pit bulls. I know it all depends on how an animal was raised and treated. But coming from a shelter I would have no way of knowing would I? For somebody with a fear of dogs a pit bull just doesn't seem the way to go with a first dog. Am I wrong?
> 
> I was kinda leaning towards a Lab but I admit I really don't know the first thing about breeds.


Labs are sweet animals, they are great for hunting water fowl and are excellent with kids and other pets. Pitbulls are naturally more aggressive than labs. that does not mean they are not off my personal list of a good dog choice. If you are looking for a guard dog a Pitbull is a much better choice than a lab. It does depend on how they are raised, but it also depends on the individual dogs mentality. You have things like food aggression that will pop up in otherwise very kind and gentle dogs. for example my younger pup, who is a terrier mixed with a shepard, is gentle as can be but she has these food aggression problems. I would suggest that if you do get a dog ways to curb this aggression especially with kids is to teach the dog from the beginning that you and your children are its masters..that you all are the alpha and it is the beta. In smoking article I think he stated a way to treat food aggression is to isolate the dog when it is eating..i agree with him on that..also one thing that I do is I sit by the dog while she eats and every now and then I say sit and stay and then after a moment tell her to begin eating again..this is working for me.

If you do get a dog I encourage getting a rescue dog..I have two and they are excellent companions and sweet animals. As a first dog I would also say maybe it is best to get a puppy and not an older dog. this way the dog can imprint on your family...

One breed I know would be a good choice is a highland terrier. they have many pluses to them. for one they are small so you can ease into re establishing trust between yourself and dogs in general. Highland terriers are excellent small game hunters. my parents highland is always killing mice and other small rodents.

best of luck on the hunt for the pooch


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Decide what duties you want the dog of your choice to perform, guard dog, or just watch dog? My little 15 pound rat terrier will not deter most any bad guy, but will let me know he's there. Easy on food, long life, very few medical issues. Larger dogs suffer from hip diasplasia, (sp) Many web sites offer insights to the type of dog that may suit your needs. Good Luck. Check out the AKC web sight, just to get a general overview of different breeds natures.


----------



## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




----------



## Kahlan

Hawk your making me all mushy inside with these pics of the precious puppies!


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## Slippy

Hawk has done gone crazy with puppy pics! I always thought he was a crusty old tough guy but now I think we found his Kryptonite! PUPPIES!


----------



## HuntingHawk




----------



## firefighter72

Always try to get a puppy so you can raise it the way you want, plus it helps with bonding with the animal. My next door neighbor has a pit bull they got him when he was only a few mouths old. Pit bulls are great dogs, but they are very hyper and like to play. But if you cant get a puppy there's nothing wrong with an older dog, do long as it doesn't have any mental problems from things like; getting beat, having to fight, drugs, things like that. When you do get a dog give it table scraps let it get on the bed or couch with you and things like that, so it knows you love it and want it around. Also make sure it knows your the one in charge.


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## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## Kahlan

You're killing me Hawk :grin:


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## HuntingHawk




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## sparkyprep

I own pits. It's good to think of them like friendly, loyal, loving firearms. They will be the sweetest babies you ever saw, but you always have to respect what they are capable of.


----------



## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk




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## HuntingHawk

Sorry, that was all the doggie humor pics I had.


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## A J

HuntingHawk said:


> Sorry, that was all the doggie humor pics I had.


Well done, I think we all enjoyed those!!!

Thanks,
AJ


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## HuntingHawk

I've been accused in the past of being too serious all the time. But my love of dogs seemed like a good time to mix it up & give everyone a laugh or too.


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## DerBiermeister

Is Denver the guilty dog?


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## DerBiermeister




----------



## Hemi45

I haven't the time to read through 11+ pages right now but I'm sure there are some quality replies in the mix. I'll share my two cents for your consideration as well...

First, don't get a dog that scares you. Even if it's a fine dog, your fear will be impossible to hide and will not help the process. Beyond that, think in terms of size; do you want small, medium or large? Consider the costs, they all cost about the same at the vet's office but food costs run up quickly if your new pal eats four cups a day versus one or has 'special needs'. Unless, you're hung up on certain breeds (like I am with Dobermans) just visit as many shelters/rescues as you can with an open mind and see who you 'click' with. Of the many qualities that people consider when selecting a dog, I place a premium on two; temperament and health. Also, FWIW, one of the damn finest dogs I've ever had was a street mutt - I never envisioned having a dog like him but it was my honor to be 'his' for life. Pure breeds are great but the best dog you'll ever have is the one you share a mutual love of life with. Good luck!


----------



## TxBorderCop

Kahlan,

As someone who has raised and trained a variety of hunting dogs I will give you some of what I have learned over the years.

1. Puppy - if you want a puppy, look up the breeders. You do NOT want a dog from a puppy mill. the health problems alone would ruin your relationship.
2. Breeds - I have owned everything from GSD's to Labs and Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. Hunting breeds tend to be easier to train, while extremely energetic, they always seem, to me at any rate, to be easier with kids, especially little ones.
3. Take your time - rushing to buy a dog is like rushing to buy a car, only it will be with you a lot longer, and your bad car won't eat your furniture or shit in the house.

I would recommend a Springer or Brittany Spaniel, while longer coated, they are a medium sized dog with an excellent temperament and are great with kids. I own two Labs, Mojo (our Yellow Male) and Jojo (Chocolate female). Jo is a total cutie. She is protective of the house, barks threateningly when things go bump in the night (while Mojo sleeps, snores and drools through it), and loves to love on people, especially kids. The love of my doggy life was my Nestlé's Kokomo - my beloved Chesapeake Bay Retriever. I was blessed with Her for 17 years 8 months and 14 days. Her ashes are in an urn on my entertainment center. She is to be buried with me. I want another one, but SWMBO has decreed no more than 2 dogs. If I want sex on a regular basis, then I have to abide by her decree. Chessies are great dogs, they are very hard to train, and can be VERY AGGRESSIVE. Just because they look like a stout Lab with curly hair, they are not. They are bred originally from Newfoundlands and they have a very high prey drive. However, if you are strong willed and willing to take on a challenge, the fierce loyalty and love of a Chessie is hard to match.


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## GTGallop

If you are getting a lab - it is important to know the difference.


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## Kahlan

TxBorderCop said:


> Kahlan,
> 
> As someone who has raised and trained a variety of hunting dogs I will give you some of what I have learned over the years.
> 
> 1. Puppy - if you want a puppy, look up the breeders. You do NOT want a dog from a puppy mill. the health problems alone would ruin your relationship.
> 2. Breeds - I have owned everything from GSD's to Labs and Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. Hunting breeds tend to be easier to train, while extremely energetic, they always seem, to me at any rate, to be easier with kids, especially little ones.
> 3. Take your time - rushing to buy a dog is like rushing to buy a car, only it will be with you a lot longer, and your bad car won't eat your furniture or shit in the house.
> 
> I would recommend a Springer or Brittany Spaniel, while longer coated, they are a medium sized dog with an excellent temperament and are great with kids. I own two Labs, Mojo (our Yellow Male) and Jojo (Chocolate female). Jo is a total cutie. She is protective of the house, barks threateningly when things go bump in the night (while Mojo sleeps, snores and drools through it), and loves to love on people, especially kids. The love of my doggy life was my Nestlé's Kokomo - my beloved Chesapeake Bay Retriever. I was blessed with Her for 17 years 8 months and 14 days. Her ashes are in an urn on my entertainment center. She is to be buried with me. I want another one, but SWMBO has decreed no more than 2 dogs. If I want sex on a regular basis, then I have to abide by her decree. Chessies are great dogs, they are very hard to train, and can be VERY AGGRESSIVE. Just because they look like a stout Lab with curly hair, they are not. They are bred originally from Newfoundlands and they have a very high prey drive. However, if you are strong willed and willing to take on a challenge, the fierce loyalty and love of a Chessie is hard to match.


Thanks TBC! Great post. My only child left at home is 14 going on 30 so not sure if that makes a difference with the "good with kids" aspect. I know she'd be quite upset if she thought I still considered her a kid. I've already discovered that picking a dog is not going to be nearly as easy as I thought. You've given me a lot to think about. Thank you!!


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## Kahlan

Hemi45 said:


> I haven't the time to read through 11+ pages right now but I'm sure there are some quality replies in the mix. I'll share my two cents for your consideration as well...
> 
> First, don't get a dog that scares you. Even if it's a fine dog, your fear will be impossible to hide and will not help the process. Beyond that, think in terms of size; do you want small, medium or large? Consider the costs, they all cost about the same at the vet's office but food costs run up quickly if your new pal eats four cups a day versus one or has 'special needs'. Unless, you're hung up on certain breeds (like I am with Dobermans) just visit as many shelters/rescues as you can with an open mind and see who you 'click' with. Of the many qualities that people consider when selecting a dog, I place a premium on two; temperament and health. Also, FWIW, one of the damn finest dogs I've ever had was a street mutt - I never envisioned having a dog like him but it was my honor to be 'his' for life. Pure breeds are great but the best dog you'll ever have is the one you share a mutual love of life with. Good luck!


I worried about the fear part. I am hoping to control/work through the fear but I've always heard they can sense it. Basically I want a dog that will protect me. Yet also be a companion. I have a lot of love to give, I think if I found the right dog it would be a great relationship.


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## TxBorderCop

Sometimes, teenagers are worse with dogs than little ones. My 14 year old son has learned that our cute little Chocolate Lab is not his buddy, but his wife. If he misbehaves (especially around his Mom) Jojo will use her snout and nudge him, hard, in the family jewels. Then while he is sitting on the floor holding his injured pride, she stand over him and just LOOKS at him. My wife and I are usually laughing our butts off at that point.

If I lived closer, I would loan you one of my two Labs so you could get a feel for the breed. I really think a Springer or Brittanny would suit your family better. They are very loving, love to play, and are really easily trained. My Dad used to raise them (which means I was the one, who fed them, watered them, brushed them and trained them). He would take them hunting and for field trials. They always did better for me, though. ROFLMAO, and boy that always pissed off the old man something fierce. I won two blue ribbons with the same dog he didn't place at all with. Shatzi loved me more, and when she would win, I fed her a Whataburger with cheese (no onion, pickles, lettuce or tomatoes) and a large order of fries. Come to think of it, I always bought the dogs that when they won. It was bribery but it worked.

If there might be fear, then start with a pup and not an adult dog. A pup won't sense it as much, and will probably work harder at being lovable because they are worried that THEY are the problem and not you.


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## Kahlan

TxBorderCop said:


> Sometimes, teenagers are worse with dogs than little ones. My 14 year old son has learned that our cute little Chocolate Lab is not his buddy, but his wife. If he misbehaves (especially around his Mom) Jojo will use her snout and nudge him, hard, in the family jewels. Then while he is sitting on the floor holding his injured pride, she stand over him and just LOOKS at him. My wife and I are usually laughing our butts off at that point.
> 
> If I lived closer, I would loan you one of my two Labs so you could get a feel for the breed. I really think a Springer or Brittanny would suit your family better. They are very loving, love to play, and are really easily trained. My Dad used to raise them (which means I was the one, who fed them, watered them, brushed them and trained them). He would take them hunting and for field trials. They always did better for me, though. ROFLMAO, and boy that always pissed off the old man something fierce. I won two blue ribbons with the same dog he didn't place at all with. Shatzi loved me more, and when she would win, I fed her a Whataburger with cheese (no onion, pickles, lettuce or tomatoes) and a large order of fries. Come to think of it, I always bought the dogs that when they won. It was bribery but it worked.
> 
> If there might be fear, then start with a pup and not an adult dog. A pup won't sense it as much, and will probably work harder at being lovable because they are worried that THEY are the problem and not you.


At this point after reading all the great advice that everybody has I think I am definitely going to look for a puppy.


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## TxBorderCop

It's hard not to love a little wriggly bundle of love and energy.


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## HuntingHawk

Trifexis is something you will need to price & purchase on pill per month due to varying weight of the dog as it grows. The pill takes care of heart worms, fleas, ticks, etc. And yes, you need to use it year round.


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## DerBiermeister

Kahlan
You never know just where your search for a new puppy will take you. Let me pass on one of our stories. 11 years ago, Virginia was hit with a very bad hurricane that covered the whole state. It was Hurricane Isabel. It struck late in the evening on a Thursday night, and the winds had finally died down on Friday morning so that I could venture out to try to find a hot cup of coffee. (Yeah -- can't get by without one.) I actually drove some 120 miles all over the Richmond vicinity just looking for some convenience store, gas station, whatever, that had power. No such luck. (Of course -- had I been a prepper back then - there would have been no problem in the basic necessity of coffee. :lol
Anyway, as the damage in our area was pretty extensive, we figured we would be without power for some time, so we quickly decided to evacuate to Northern Va. (Reston) where my daughter lived. She had power. On a good day, that is about a 2 hour drive. I think it took us about 4 hours to get there, but about 10 miles from her home we finally found a gas station that had power.

I guess it was about noon, when I was sitting at her computer, already bored with being shanghaied, that I went online and looked at the classified section of the Washington Post -- looking for ads for puppies. We had had to put down our beloved Penny (13 year old Golden Ret.) a week before -- that damn cancer which is never far away. Anyway, we already felt our house was simply too void of happiness. There wasn't many ads in the classified, but I did trip across one that was interesting. It was for mixed lab/golden puppies located at a big farm on a country road up between Frederick, Md and Baltimore. So we made the trip up there (about an hour's drive) and found a very unique place. This farm was now a training center for seeing-eye dogs. The owner's daughter was a Vet from Blacksburg, VA. Her boyfriend was a Vet from Norfolk, VA. They had decided to breed their two pure-bred dogs to hopefully have a litter of something special. When we got there, there were three puppies left. Two black labs, and one golden ret (who was the runt of the litter). 
My wife immediately fell for the golden and we bought her ($350) and took her back to my daughter's. I had fallen for one of the black labs, and my daughter realized that when we got to her house -- so she called the farm and bought the lab for me and we went back the next day to pick her up. Since we were taking two puppies, they cut us a deal on the black lab -- we got her for $250. We gave each pup a middle name of Isabel after the hurricane.

You already saw this picture -- but here were the two pups. Kelly and Casey:








Here they are when they reached adulthood:








Two finer dogs never lived. Kelly Isabel died a year ago. But Casey Isabel is still a very active 11 year old and has a new sister Sadie that she is teaching the ropes to. We had never even considered having two dogs at the same time, in fact my wife was against it at first. That decision has turned out to be a blessing in our house.

The moral of this story is that you just never know how you are going to find the "right" dogs that will bring joy to your life for a long long time. So be open and flexible -- but be vigilant in getting going on your search. Good luck.


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## Kahlan

That's a wonderful story and they are(were) truly gorgeous dogs. I had not considered adopting 2 dogs but I bet they would love the companionship. This is another thing for me to consider now as well. I'm really enjoying all the dog stories and pictures!


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## RNprepper

If you ever chance upon a Golden Retriever/Collie mix, you will have the most loyal, intelligent, protective dog ever. I've had two and they are just the best. (Can you tell I'm biased?) The protective nature of the collie offsets some of the "lick you to death" of the Goldie. They have a defensive nature but really safe with the kiddos and family. Over the lives of these dogs individually, a stranger NEVER was able to approach the house, yet the dogs never bit anyone. They have the size and bark to be a good deterrent, and I do believe they would have given their lives for the family. They protected everything within the boundaries of the property - chickens were rescued from the irrigation ditch, goats were "herded," a child pulled from a pond, - seems like their mission was to guard, protect, and keep everyone within site.

Another really good loyal dog is the Bouvier des Flandres, or a mixed breed that has Bouvier. Very protective, loyal family dogs that are mistrusting of strangers.


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## Becca

There are 10 breeds which will cancel your house insurance if they find out you own one or they raise your rates-I know Pits,staffies,rottweiler,dobermans and akita's are on the list. I recommend a smooth coated collie, a forgotten breed. Not as hyper as Borders but just as smart. Smooth coats are born in the same litters as rough coats so a collie breeder will often have both. I plan to adopt an adult collie from a breeder who wants to retire the dog from the show ring or just has too many dogs. I know they will be well socialized and trained. My mutt is old, 90% blind, and keeps falling down our steps or running into trees or raised beds in the yard. I thought she would know where everything was even blind,she has lived here 12 years and we haven't moved anything but the vet says some dogs just don't adjust well to being blind :sad:


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## Kahlan

Becca said:


> There are 10 breeds which will cancel your house insurance if they find out you own one or they raise your rates-I know Pits,staffies,rottweiler,dobermans and akita's are on the list.


This is another good point. I remember when filling out the application for my homeowners insurance that it did ask about the type of dogs I owned if any. Thanks for that reminder.


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## Arklatex

Having 2 pups at once is very entertaining but it's also a pain in the butt. In my experience it is harder to train that way unless you separate them for training sessions. Here's my 2 pups. They're sisters from the same litter.


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## Arklatex

Stupid pics won't load right.


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## HuntingHawk

No matter what breed or sex, crate train the dog. It is the dog's nest. Especially younger dogs that will get into things & chew things up when not immediately being supervised. And there will be company the dog doesn't like. It may not be the person themselves but a smell such as laundry soap, perfume, etc.


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## HuntingHawk

And now we will get into important stuff like food. You pay now or you pay later. You can buy quality food & have a healthy dog. Or you can feed it crappy dog food with 90% filler & end up with a dog with joint pain in a few years.
What a dog truly needs depends on breed & age. But no matter what the breed, things like grain & soy are not good for the dog & corn is actually harmful.


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## Arklatex

HuntingHawk said:


> And now we will get into important stuff like food. You pay now or you pay later. You can buy quality food & have a healthy dog. Or you can feed it crappy dog food with 90% filler & end up with a dog with joint pain in a few years.
> What a dog truly needs depends on breed & age. But no matter what the breed, things like grain & soy are not good for the dog & corn is actually harmful.


Is there any certain brands you recommend or avoid? I have been feeding my pups Purina puppy chow. They will be 1 in a month. I have heard you are supposed to feed puppy chow for about 2 years before you transition to regular food.


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## Hemi45

Arklatex said:


> Is there any certain brands you recommend or avoid? I have been feeding my pups Purina puppy chow. They will be 1 in a month. I have heard you are supposed to feed puppy chow for about 2 years before you transition to regular food.


You're feeding your dogs the nutritional equivalent of Big Macs & Twinkies ... get 'em off that ASAP.

Purina Puppy Chow | Review and Rating

Check out this site for great info. I linked to your current food so you can see what I mean. Just go to the home page and look up any brand/product you want info on. My puppy is currently on Wellness Large Breed Puppy and doing great! Personally, I won't go below a four-star rating for my dogs. Give 'em the best you can ... they're worth nothing less


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## Hemi45

Also, anyone with a dog should check out Dog and Cat Food, Treats, and Supplies | Free Shipping at Chewy.com - I'm saving $15/bag off big box pet store prices. Free shipping when you order $49 or more. I won't cut corners on quality but I'll damn sure save money where I can.


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## HuntingHawk

Anything Walmart sales avoid. Period.

By law, ingredients have to be listed by percentage of what is in them though they don't have to list the actual percentage. So if the first thing listed is corn, wheat etc you are just feeding your dog filler.

As far as kibble goes, Blue is probably the best but probably the most expensive. If there is a Tractor Supply near you get some 4Health. Its the only place that sales it.


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## HuntingHawk

Anyone giving their dogs treats made in china you are basically giving your dog rat poison. Buy hot dogs on sale, cut them up into appropriate size pieces, & keep in the frig.

For training I mostly just use kibble.


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## DerBiermeister

I use Diamond Naturals from Tractor Supply. Good stuff at a very reasonable price compared to what you buy at PetSmart.

Diamond Large Breed Adult Dog Chicken & Rice Formula, 40 lb. - Tractor Supply Co.


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## A J

HuntingHawk said:


> Anything Walmart sales avoid. Period.
> 
> By law, ingredients have to be listed by percentage of what is in them though they don't have to list the actual percentage. So if the first thing listed is corn, wheat etc you are just feeding your dog filler.
> 
> As far as kibble goes, Blue is probably the best but probably the most expensive. If there is a Tractor Supply near you get some 4Health. Its the only place that sales it.


We use the Rachel Ray Zero Grain from Walmart. Our dog has digestion problems with a lot of the dog foods we've tried, but since we started using this, he's been 100%

(Turkey is #1 ingredient, no grains, glutens etc.)
Zero Grain Dog Food | from Rachael Ray Nutrish

Just because it's Walmart doesn't mean it's bad (it's not the cheapest by any means, that cheap stuff is crap)

AJ


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## HuntingHawk

Almost monthly Tractor Supply has a 10% off sale on feed which includes dog food. Wellness is just a few points behind 4Health in ratings. But again, it depends on breed. Even a working breed & sporting breed have different nutritional needs. Use to be said that you always look at what a breeder feeds their dogs. If they feed their dogs crap then its a puppy mill & don't walk away, run.

35lb bag of 4Health runs $30-35 depending on variety. All my rotties love the salmon & potato. Natural fish oil is good for their skin & hair. My rotties get a mix of 4Health & raw chicken leg quarters which I buy by the 40lb case. The raw meat messages their gums & the soft, uncooked bone cleans their teeth keeping tartar off. NEVER give a dog any cooked fowl bone as that dried, hard bone can splinter & cut them up inside.

Tartar on a dog's teeth is a sign of crappy dog food.


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## HuntingHawk

AJ, I have heard of Rachel Ray's brand of kibble but haven't seen any independent reports on it. Going to Walmart & buying Purina, Old Roy, etc is what you want to avoid.


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## HuntingHawk

Tractor Supply is the only place I know of that carries the top rated brands of kibble at a reasonable price.


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## tirednurse

this is a great tool for selecting dog food. I would suggest every one copy and save it for future reference. Notice Purina brand scores (F)

Start with a grade of 100: 


1) For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points 

2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or
fat) reference, subtract 10 points 

3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points 

4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source,subtract 5 points 

5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five 
ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer's rice", "rice flour" are
all the same grain), subtract 5 points 

6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 meats 
in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points 

7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points 

8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points 

9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points 

10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract 2
points 

11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is allergic
to other protein sources), subtract 2 points 

12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points 

13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic to
wheat), subtract 2 points 

14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic to 
beef), subtract 1 point 

15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point 

Extra Credit: 




1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points 

2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or 
nutritionist, add 5 points 

3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points 

4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points 

5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points 

6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points 

7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 points 

8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points 

9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points 

10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point 

11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point 

12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than 

the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source 
but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1 point 

13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point 

14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are pesticide-free 
add 1 point 

94-100+ = A 
86-93 = B 
78-85 = C 
70-77 = D 
69 = F 

Here are some foods that have already been scored. Dog Food scores: 


Dog Food scores:
Alpo Prime Cuts / Score 81 C
Artemis Large/Medium Breed Puppy / Score 114 A+
Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+
Authority Harvest Baked Less Active / Score 93 B
Beowulf Back to Basics / Score 101 A+
Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F
Blackwood 3000 Lamb and Rice / Score 83 C
Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice / Score 106 A+
Burns Chicken and Brown Rice / Score 107 A+
Canidae / Score 112 A+
Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+
Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F
Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B
Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A
Diamond Performance / Score 85 C
Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+
Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice / Score 106 A+
Dick Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+
EaglePack Holistic / Score 102 A+
Eukanuba Adult / Score 81 C
Eukanuba Puppy / Score 79 C
Flint River Senior / Score 101 A+
Foundations / Score 106 A+
Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B
Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D
Innova Dog / Score 114 A+
Innova Evo / Score 114 A+
Innova Large Breed Puppy / Score 122 A+
Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+
Member's Mark Chicken and Rice / Score 84 C
Merrick Wilderness Blend / Score 127 A+
Nature's Recipe / Score 100 A
Nature's Recipe Healthy Skin Venison and Rice / Score 116 A+
Nature's Variety Raw Instinct / Score 122 A+
Nutra Nuggets Super Premium Lamb Meal and Rice / Score 81 C
Nutrience Junior Medium Breed Puppy / Score 101 A+
Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B
Nutro Max Adult / Score 93 B
Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice / Score 98 A
Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B
Nutro Natural Choice Puppy Wheat Free / Score 86 B
Nutro Natural Choice Senior / Score 95 A
Nutro Ultra Adult / Score 104 A+
Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F
Premium Edge Chicken, Rice and Vegetables Adult Dry / Score 109 A+
Pro Nature Puppy / Score 80 C
Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach / Score 94 A
Purina Benful / Score 17 F
Purina Dog / Score 62 F
Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F
Purina One Large Breed Puppy / Score 62 F
Royal Canin Boxer / Score 103 A+
Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+
Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+
Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F
Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F
Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A
Solid Gold / Score 99 A
Summit / Score 99 A
Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural Dry / Score 120 A+
Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+
Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A


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## HuntingHawk

Before you put down that kibble for a dog, make sure they have clean, fresh water. Dry kibble without water can do damage to the stomach lining as well as cause constipation.


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## HuntingHawk

tirednurse, I thought about posting that but it doesn't account for breed, age, activity level, etc. But it does show why you should stay away from certain brands.


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## paraquack

I don't and can't fault the list and scores of the foods you list, tirednurse, but where did it come from??


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## HuntingHawk

It was devised by a dog nutritionist in 2004.

Revised in 2004.


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## HuntingHawk

A blonde can look hot but can she cook?

Now that I have your attention, with breeders there is a big difference between those that do show dogs & those that do working dogs.


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## bigwheel

Thanks for that link and formula. Our grand prize winning youngest son Shitzu named Bowzer gets home made dog food. He tends to get itchy so we sent off for some an additive called Dinovite which they advertise the heck out of over the radio. is supposed to be good for that issue. His Mama has been making this for him. He loves it and its getting a bit chubby. Its a recipe provided by the Dinovite web site. I let her look at what was posted and she cant decide whether it might be better or worse than those which got an A plus. Any thoughts?

Easy Raw Dog Food - Homemade Dog Food


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## HuntingHawk

Just feed the dog alittle less & should be fine. I feed my dogs twice a day. There are dogs that do better on three small meals per day. An issue might be lack of calcium on that diet.


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## longrider

Boy have I learned a lot from these posts! I have had dogs all my life. I've studied dogs since I could read. No, I'm not telling you how old I am. Here are some tips that I didn't see posted yet.

Get this book. 1/ price books has them in stock all the time. How To Be Your Dog's Best Friend by the Monks of New Skeet. They explain a lot about dog natur, dog training, and how to interact with your dog. Also How To Raise A Puppy by the Monks is another good book. Almost the same, but not quite. I can't count the times I've loaned out my books to friends and family of friends. Then they just go buy their own. (No, I'm not a New Skeet Monk)

Look on petfinder.com for a dog or puppy. If you put in your zip code, they will look at what's close to you first. This has a lot of the rescues and animal shelters listed. I do like the idea of breed specific rescues. They are only interested in finding safe, loving homes for their rescue dogs. As has been said, not all rescue dogs are bad dogs. A lot of them get dumped, through no fault of their own. Don't ask advise of a Humane Society/Animal shelter worker about specific dog breeds. And you can not always go by what breed they list the dog as. The HS in town has been almost ridiculous about what breed they name the dogs that come in. If you can, get a reputable dog trainer to come with you to check out a dog you're interested in. Maybe you can do a barter for their time. Like clean kennels, help walk the dogs in their care, etc. if funds are an issue. That would free them up for more training time.

Some hunting breeds make good watch/alarm dogs. Just be aware that they are bred to hunt. Their noses may take them away at a critical point, or distract them when the need is highest for their attention. 

Never let a dog on your couch or bed until you have established your leadership over them. Being on your couch with you or worse, your bed, puts them at the same hierarchy level as you. That tells them you are not the leader, but just another pack member. They are less likely to obey the next time you ask anything of them.

Pit bull or any of the "fighting" breeds are more likely to be dog aggressive than people aggressive. They were bred to fight other animals, not people. This goes out the window if they are in a pack. Belgian Malenois, although bread as herders, are also bred now as people attackers. I would steer clear of that breed. 

Definitely go to obedience classes with your dog. Take the puppy class and the next class up. You will bond with your dog. It will be easier for the dog to see you as the leader and it is so convenient to have a dog that is obedient trained.

Look in the library for books on dog breeds, finding the right dog for your family and dogs care in general. Look at books that give a realistic look at the breeds. One that tells the con's of the breed, as well as the pro's. If you call breeders, after researching what breeds you think you like, ask them to tell you the draw-backs of the breed. A lot of people say you have to brush a Collie several times a week. I've always done good with one or two 5 minute sessions a week, unless a burdock bush jumps them. "Choosing the Right Dog for You" by Gwen Bailey is a good book, as well as "The Intelligence of Dogs" by Stanley Coren. This book will give you some tests to try out on puppies, so you will have a better chance of picking the right one for you. They are personality tests, so you don't get stuck with a shy dog or an overly aggressive/assertive dog.

Decide if you want an alarm dog or a dog that will back up it's bark. I have a lab boxer mix that sounds like a junkyard dog. His nickname is Daffodil. Would he back up his bark? I doubt it. But Earl, who is a quiet dog, would defend me with his life if need be. He just wants to be with me.

Here is a list of breeds that are at the bottom of the intelligence list. Steer clear of them:
Scottish Terrier, Chihuahua, Lhasa Aspo, Bullmastiff, Shih Tzu, Basset Hound, Mastiff, Beagle, Pekingese, Bloodhound, Borzoi, Chow Chow, Bulldog, Basenji and at the bottom? Afghan Hound. I do know a Mastiff that learned how to sit within 1 hour, stay within an hour, come within 15 minutes. So you can't always tell. But this is an expert dog trainer listing these dogs. (that would not be me)

I do know that the more you expect from a dog, the more they will give you.

Don't bring home a pup less than 10 weeks old. They have the "fear" period between 8 and 10 weeks. If they are scared by something, they will rarely lose that fear as they grow.

The best summer treat for a dog? Frozen cheap hotdogs. It helps cool their insides off. My dogs will steal the crown jewels for frozen hotdogs.

Good luck. I know you'll do well in whatever choice you make.


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## TxBorderCop

I feed my Labs Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice formula - my Yellow Lab has gluten intolerance (so does my wife and son) so he does really well with that. I also supplement their meals with fresh (farm raised not store bought) raw eggs twice a week and fresh raw beef liver twice a week. Man, does it cut down on the shedding.

You know what they say about Labs? They chew until they're two and they shed until they are dead. That's the God's Honest truth there.

Longrider - never even HEARD of the frozen hot dog thing. Man, my dogs love hot dogs off the grill, so I can cut them into chunks and freeze them? That is a cool trick. Have to try it out.


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## Kahlan

Wow Longrider, that was a great informative answer. I'm going to print it out just incase I ever lose track of this thread. I'm going to check out the website and get the book asap. I've learned so much about dogs in the past 2 days. There's definitely a whole lot more to it than just going to a shelter and picking out a dog. Glad I had the sense to ask on here first before I did something impulsive. Thanks to everybody for all your answers, insight, knowledge and experience.


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## jimb1972

I switch off between NutroMax and Diamond, Menards sells both and it is convenient for me. I have heard people say not to switch foods, but my dog seems to like it and has not had any issues.


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## tirednurse

I don't remeber the source of the rating system. I have had a copy of it for several years. If you search for it you can probably find it somewhere. I think I got it from a dog site. I personally use the Kirkland food from costco and have been very happy with it for almost 10 years. I also do a homemade mix once or twice a week using rice chicken veggies and goat milk because I know this is what they will have if I can't get dog food. 
As for amounts and feeding schedules I would saw this is an individual thing. A lot of this depends on the family schedule also. Since dogs need to poop soon after eating I have always feed on a schedlue when I know I will be there to make sure they get outside when they need to. When training puppies this is a must.


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## bigwheel

Ok..I am fixing to have some putty tat questions. Thanks.


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## Slippy

Longrider and Tirednurse,
Great posts! 
On a side note, I give our old Border Collie (14 yrs +) one raw egg in her food every other day or so and a slab of cheese whenever I think about it. I figure the extra protein and fat will be good for her. After all, she's 14 and that's like 80 or so? 

Maybe I just want someone to give me a shot of Jack and a good cigar every other day when I'm 80 years old! Why not?


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## Smokin04

Jumping in way late, sorry...been travelling all day. I would look at craigslist and find a free puppy add. While I'm not saying rescure dogs are bad...you don't know what type of drama or trauma they've been through. Rehabing a dog takes time (and in some cases money). I personally think it would be better to raise a dog from puppyhood...that way you know the dogs history. They will be more rewarding as a pet that way IMO.


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## Kahlan

Sheesh Smokin, late to the party. I've done adopted a puppy and raised him to a dog by now.


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## Smokin04

My bad. Can't help being stuck in traffic...


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## Kahlan

Smokin04 said:


> My bad. Can't help being stuck in traffic...


Hope your travels were worth it...


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## tirednurse

I give my dogs eggs too. Good for the skin and coat.


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## HuntingHawk

You might want to take a look at this website also.
Dog Breed Pictures: Health Problems of Labs, Bulldogs, Beagles, and More


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## RNprepper

Smokin04 said:


> Jumping in way late, sorry...been travelling all day. I would look at craigslist and find a free puppy add. While I'm not saying rescure dogs are bad...you don't know what type of drama or trauma they've been through. Rehabing a dog takes time (and in some cases money). I personally think it would be better to raise a dog from puppyhood...that way you know the dogs history. They will be more rewarding as a pet that way IMO.


Rescue or free puppies can be incubating Parvo, Distemper, and other puppy killers. You can end up spending a lot of money trying to get them well and end up euthanizing them anyway. Pretty heartbreaking for kids to go through that. Getting a dog from the pound does have the advantage of being able to take the dog back if it gets sick after adoption. They have all their shots and have already been neutered. It can be great fun to raise a puppy....... but you have to put up with the messes, chewing, training, etc. It can be a lot of work and a lot of time. It takes about 12-18 months for a puppy to actually grow up enough to become protective. I've done it and I've also adopted adult dogs that were well past the puppy stage and ready to be great family dogs from day one. The older dogs are sometimes cheaper to adopt from the pound and may even be free if the facility is overloaded. Just some ideas. If I wanted a dog for protection now, I'd be looking for an adult dog that will be protective of his new "pack", once he is adjusted to the family.

Another thing about pups - you just don't always know how they will turn out. We had a beautiful white shepherd pup named Heidi. She grew into a lovely dog, but eventually had to be re-homed because of her unbreakable desire to eat chickens. The turkey was the last straw. There was absolutely no breaking her of this. It was bred into her. We later found out that her dad had been a sheep killer. Any way, with an adult dog you can get more history - has it lived in a household with cats? Livestock? Small kids? Already obedience trained? Good dogs are out there. Breed rescues are also good places to look. One of our members here is a foster parent for Golden Retrievers. He gets to know the dogs well and can help a family decide if a particular dog is a good fit for them. Foster homes (from the breed rescues) have the sole desire to find loving homes for the dogs. They are highly motivated to place the dogs in homes that will work well for both dog and family. Might be a good place to start.


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## Smokin04

I don't disgree RN...but, with EVERY dog comes a past. The dog with the shortest history is usually the most moldable.


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## RNprepper

Smokin04 said:


> I don't disgree RN...but, with EVERY dog comes a past. The dog with the shortest history is usually the most moldable.


Not disagreeing with you, but some dogs have had good pasts - they just need new homes. Not all of them have bad baggage. Sometimes even those with baggage turn out to be real gems once they are in a good home that is consistant with the rules and unconditional with the love. I've never adopted a bad adult dog...... but I am careful about what I am looking for. I guess the worst one was a Maltepoo 5 years ago that STILL has pee accidents in the house. Loveable, adorable little guy, but he can lift that leg pretty fast. And that white shepherd pup was an incorrigable chicken killer, no matter how we tried to mold her. The genes were against us.


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## Slippy

In the old days Pa would put some buckshot in Rover if he was an egg suckin' chicken killin' cur dog. I'm guessin' that shit ain't happenin no more?


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## RNprepper

Slippy said:


> In the old days Pa would put some buckshot in Rover if he was an egg suckin' chicken killin' cur dog. I'm guessin' that shit ain't happenin no more?


No. We found another home for her, after full disclosure of her behavior and genetic legacy from her father. They did not have poultry and were delighted to have her. She was a great family dog - just a very bad girl with chickens.


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## A J

Slippy said:


> In the old days Pa would put some buckshot in Rover if he was an egg suckin' chicken killin' cur dog. I'm guessin' that shit ain't happenin no more?


Yep. We had one we couldn't break when I was a kid. Dad told me "He's your dog".

AJ


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## RNprepper

A J said:


> Yep. We had one we couldn't break when I was a kid. Dad told me "He's your dog".
> 
> AJ


Was he telling you that you had to go out and shoot your own dog?


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## A J

RNprepper said:


> Was he telling you that you had to go out and shoot your own dog?


Yep. Don't think harshly of him. He would have done it if I couldn't.

AJ


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## Inor

There are many dog experts here and I ain't one. We have always had at least two dogs, usually three. They have been various breeds, usually mutts. I loved each and every one of them and each one was different. Mrs Inor loved all but one. 

We had a couple black labs and they were wonderful animals. They were a bit on the hyper side when they were young and did require a lot of time and attention until they were about 5 years old. Then like switching a light, they assumed their place in the hierarchy of our home and followed us endlessly and were wonderful. I would not hesitate to own another.

We had a Norwegian Elkhound that Mrs Inor hated. She was pretty destructive if we did not spend every waking minute with her and only her. Our kids were young at the time and we did not have the time to dedicate to her as we should have. Unfortunately on election night 1996, she decided she could not take another 4 years of Bill Clinton and committed suicide by Oldsmobile. She was only about a year and a half old.

We had an Australian Blue Heeler. She was dumb as a post but an EXTREMELY loving and loyal dog. I think her stupidity was more due to the individual dog rather than the breed. But even as dumb as she was, I would own another in a heartbeat.

Presently we have 2 Newfoundlands. One is about 11 years old, the other is 5 months. They are GREAT dogs for the first time dog owner! They are incredibly mellow. Even the 5 month old is not destructive and spends most of his time sleeping. They are also REALLY smart. They are not aggressive, but then how aggressive does a 140 pound dog need to be to dissuade a thug from messing with you?

We also currently have Springer-Lab mix. She is about 3 years old. She is a great dog. But... She does require a LOT of attention and requires a job to do. She is absolutely terrible on a leash and our vet says that is typical of the breed. If we take her off the leash, she never wanders more than about 15-20 feet away from us. But when we take her places that require her to be leashed it is a problem.

One thing we have found works really well is to have several dogs of various ages. The older dogs help us train the younger ones. For example, we never had much trouble house breaking the two young ones we have now; the older ones showed them the ropes and other than 2 or 3 accidents, that was all the work we had to do. The same is true with chewing on our stuff. Our young Newfy (5 mos) grabbed the mouse to Mrs Inor's computer a week or so ago and before I could scold him our old Newfy was all over him and gave him a couple good nips. The young one has not touched Mrs Inor's mouse since. The same has been true of shoes.


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## longrider

I like Golden Retrievers. They are great family dogs. But don't think you can depend on one to protect you. It's just not in their nature. This is the most fun I've had in a thread in a while. I love dogs. A good mix is lab/Great Pyrenees. Lots of protection, not so much silly baby stuff. Big enough to intimidate strangers easily. I always said "Just don't turn your back to him" Funny what people will do. :twisted::mrgreen: I'm really wondering what you'll decide to get, Kahlan.

I had my lab/boxer giving my grandbaby a ride today. Even though she stretched his jowls to the next block, and poked him in the eye (she's quicker than Granny T, but learning to "be nice"), he has never offered to raise his lips, growl or harm her in any way. He does run from her, though. He's not dumb. On the other hand, I doubt he'll ever attack a stranger.


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## Smokin04

tirednurse said:


> this is a great tool for selecting dog food. I would suggest every one copy and save it for future reference. Notice Purina brand scores (F)
> 
> Start with a grade of 100:
> 
> 1) For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points
> 
> 2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or
> fat) reference, subtract 10 points
> 
> 3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points
> 
> 4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source,subtract 5 points
> 
> 5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five
> ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer's rice", "rice flour" are
> all the same grain), subtract 5 points
> 
> 6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 meats
> in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points
> 
> 7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points
> 
> 8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points
> 
> 9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points
> 
> 10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract 2
> points
> 
> 11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is allergic
> to other protein sources), subtract 2 points
> 
> 12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points
> 
> 13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic to
> wheat), subtract 2 points
> 
> 14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic to
> beef), subtract 1 point
> 
> 15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point
> 
> Extra Credit:
> 
> 1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points
> 
> 2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or
> nutritionist, add 5 points
> 
> 3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points
> 
> 4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points
> 
> 5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points
> 
> 6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points
> 
> 7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 points
> 
> 8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points
> 
> 9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points
> 
> 10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point
> 
> 11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point
> 
> 12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than
> 
> the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source
> but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1 point
> 
> 13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point
> 
> 14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are pesticide-free
> add 1 point
> 
> 94-100+ = A
> 86-93 = B
> 78-85 = C
> 70-77 = D
> 69 = F
> 
> Here are some foods that have already been scored. Dog Food scores:
> 
> Dog Food scores:
> Alpo Prime Cuts / Score 81 C
> Artemis Large/Medium Breed Puppy / Score 114 A+
> Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+
> Authority Harvest Baked Less Active / Score 93 B
> Beowulf Back to Basics / Score 101 A+
> Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F
> Blackwood 3000 Lamb and Rice / Score 83 C
> Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice / Score 106 A+
> Burns Chicken and Brown Rice / Score 107 A+
> Canidae / Score 112 A+
> Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+
> Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F
> Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B
> Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A
> Diamond Performance / Score 85 C
> Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+
> Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice / Score 106 A+
> Dick Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+
> EaglePack Holistic / Score 102 A+
> Eukanuba Adult / Score 81 C
> Eukanuba Puppy / Score 79 C
> Flint River Senior / Score 101 A+
> Foundations / Score 106 A+
> Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B
> Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D
> Innova Dog / Score 114 A+
> Innova Evo / Score 114 A+
> Innova Large Breed Puppy / Score 122 A+
> Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+
> Member's Mark Chicken and Rice / Score 84 C
> Merrick Wilderness Blend / Score 127 A+
> Nature's Recipe / Score 100 A
> Nature's Recipe Healthy Skin Venison and Rice / Score 116 A+
> Nature's Variety Raw Instinct / Score 122 A+
> Nutra Nuggets Super Premium Lamb Meal and Rice / Score 81 C
> Nutrience Junior Medium Breed Puppy / Score 101 A+
> Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B
> Nutro Max Adult / Score 93 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice / Score 98 A
> Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Puppy Wheat Free / Score 86 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Senior / Score 95 A
> Nutro Ultra Adult / Score 104 A+
> Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F
> Premium Edge Chicken, Rice and Vegetables Adult Dry / Score 109 A+
> Pro Nature Puppy / Score 80 C
> Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach / Score 94 A
> Purina Benful / Score 17 F
> Purina Dog / Score 62 F
> Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F
> Purina One Large Breed Puppy / Score 62 F
> Royal Canin Boxer / Score 103 A+
> Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+
> Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+
> Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F
> Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F
> Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A
> Solid Gold / Score 99 A
> Summit / Score 99 A
> Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural Dry / Score 120 A+
> Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+
> Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A


Dang girl...this is a bad-ass post...I appreciate the time it took for you to post it. Must have taken a long time. I have to throw it out there though. ALL military dogs gets science diet. Based on your criteria, it's an F. I can't understand that the military would feed such expensive dogs with such shitty food. I don't question your criteria at all...but damn. I know Big Brother does research oon something this big.

I've tried to find a food that my dogs enjoy...my oldest (keep in mind, both my kids were military and raised on science diet) spent 14 years eating the same crap. I tried Nutro Senior (95 A+) and she wouldn't eat it...at all...ever. When I switched to Beneful and beneful wet, she tore it up. So regardless of which food is "better" for my dogs, I choose the one that they will actually eat. Because if they wont eat it...it does them no good anyways. Just my thoughts.


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## paraquack

You give in too easy. I'm sure if your dog was "really" hungry, it would eat what you put down. I've gone thru this with everyone of the six Golden Retrievers I've fostered. Sometimes I've made a concession such as the boy we have now. Due to teeth problems he wouldn't (couldn't) eat the dry kibble. We ended up soaking it in warm water for a few minutes and he chowed down. Now after 10 days of antibiotics he's eating the kibble dry with no problem. He goes in tomorrow to the "Ventist" to get 2 broken teeth removed that were causing his problem. Oh, his breath improved something great!


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## GTGallop

My dog eats everything. She'd eat her own ass if she wasn't so fat she couldn't fold in half to get to it.


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## HuntingHawk




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## Inor

paraquack said:


> You give in too easy. I'm sure if your dog was "really" hungry, it would eat what you put down. I've gone thru this with everyone of the six Golden Retrievers I've fostered. Sometimes I've made a concession such as the boy we have now. Due to teeth problems he wouldn't (couldn't) eat the dry kibble. We ended up soaking it in warm water for a few minutes and he chowed down. Now after 10 days of antibiotics he's eating the kibble dry with no problem. He goes in tomorrow to the "Ventist" to get 2 broken teeth removed that were causing his problem. Oh, his breath improved something great!


The other option is to try Hormel Chili and Taco Bell bean and cheese burritos. Neither of those require teeth. Our dogs love 'em, just do not be standing downwind after!


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## Smokin04

paraquack said:


> You give in too easy. I'm sure if your dog was "really" hungry, it would eat what you put down. I've gone thru this with everyone of the six Golden Retrievers I've fostered. Sometimes I've made a concession such as the boy we have now. Due to teeth problems he wouldn't (couldn't) eat the dry kibble. We ended up soaking it in warm water for a few minutes and he chowed down. Now after 10 days of antibiotics he's eating the kibble dry with no problem. He goes in tomorrow to the "Ventist" to get 2 broken teeth removed that were causing his problem. Oh, his breath improved something great!


I don't think it's giving in...I think it's my love for my dogs. Because I love them they way I do, I would never MAKE them eat something they didn't like. Especially if they're going to be eating it for their life. My old one ate SD for years...why not let her eat something she enjoys during her last years of life? She deserves it. I'd feed her steak every night...if she'd eat it. That's what's weird...she wont eat steak (or any meat for that matter).

Dade OTOH...he eats his own poop because he thinks he starving. I have made a few mistakes in the past with him...mainly, leaving the dog food out. I came home to him eating directly out of the bag...a 44lb bag...3 piles of vomit, and 2 piles of crap. My guess is that he ate until he puked, then ate to fill back up, puked again. Then he probably crapped, went back and ate more...and puked again. This continued until I came home and caught him. Needless to say,10 pounds of food later, Dade will eat anything for ANY reason because for some reason he thinks it will be his last meal. I give him Beneful because his coat, teeth, and nails look healthier than it did on some of the other foods I had him on. Damn dog, I love him more than life itself.


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## jimLE

*i suggest a small dog seeing how you and your daughter have a fear of them.and like others have mentioned.they wont be able to protect yall. but they sure enough let you know when someone or something is outside..i have a Pomeranian.in which i got when she was 6 weeks old..she sure enough lets me know when something is outside..she even knows when another dog is just walking across the yard.. *


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## DerBiermeister

jimLE said:


> *i suggest a small dog seeing how you and your daughter have a fear of them.*


My advice is just the opposite. It's like being afraid of the water - the ONLY way to overcome it is to learn how to swim. When I was just out of boot camp, I was stationed at NAS North Island as a life guard since I had much experience in that before joining the Navy. Anyway, I'll never forget teaching an Admiral how to swim. Yep - how he ever got to be an Admiral without knowing how to swim is a mystery to me. Anway, he was about 60 years old.

If you are afraid of large dogs - the BEST way to overcome that fear is to go get a young puppy (like a black lab) when they are like 8-10 weeks old and raise it. By the time the pup is full grown, you will have a completely different outlook on large dogs. Not that you won't still be cautious around other large dogs, but you SHOULD have developed an instinct as to which large dogs are a threat to you. I've been around large dogs all my life, and yet there are some that worry me until I know for sure.


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## MrsInor

When our youngest was about two I went to a Newfoundland rescue "farm" to pick up a puppy. The folks there were wonderful. We were standing in the kitchen where a door was gated off and the daughter was peering over the gate at the puppies. The rescue folks said they could show me the parents of the puppies and then opened the back door. Eight big Newfies came in and suddenly that kitchen seemed really really small. I was concerned for the daughter since the dogs were about her size at the shoulder. No worries. They milled about wagging and carefully avoiding walking into her and she was laughing and grabbing at them. The owner picked her up and set her on the back of one and she laughed and the dog stayed perfectly still. I took a puppy and he was one of the best dogs we have ever had. 

Our new Newfie puppy was pestering our grandson the first time they met last month by "kissing" him continuously. Finally the grandson grabbed the puppy's head in his hands, put his forehead against the puppy's head and cut it out! The puppy stopped.

For family dogs I like Golden Retrievers, Black or Yellow Labs and Newfoundlands.

Contrary to what Inor claims - the dogs do not get burritos or tacos.


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## HuntingHawk

Correct, you only feed burritos & tacos to Chihuahuas.


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## Arklatex

Mutts also make great pets. My 2 labs are pure but I also have 2 mutts. One is a pyrenees/golden mix. He was dropped off like so many in the country. We took him in and is one of the best dogs I've been around. The other is an 8 year old lab mix and she has been great as well.


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## longrider

When the Minnesota winters get cranked up, I put rehydrated bullion cubes in their food. It warms their insides and they looooove it. They don't get it every day, unless the temps are -20 for a stretch. They beg for it, when I stop giving it to them. Plus they intake more liquid, which usually drops in the winter.

I also learned this trick from my Gandfather: make a small amount of warm saltwater - 4 T salt to 6 C warm water. mix well - poured over horses hay to increase their water intake in winter. The water is usually ice cold, so they are less likely to drink enough if you don't do this. My Best Guy gives them warm water, which they patiently wait for, when the temps are below -10.


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## HuntingHawk

Ask any vet or dog nutritionist & they will tell you not to give a dog excess salt due to dehydration. Can actually cause organ damage.


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## Inor

MrsInor said:


> Contrary to what Inor claims - the dogs do not get burritos or tacos.


Not when she is looking anyway... 

Edit: Our oldest absolutely LOVES the Taco Bell hot sauce.


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## Awakened_Warrior

I love family pets, dogs in specific. The love the encourage, the clean floors, adding to the compost, the added security and deterrent effects.


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## longrider

I give my horses extra salt. You're right about dogs 'n salt.


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