# US female hostage killed in airstrike



## RNprepper

Purported IS claim: Jordan airstrike kills female U.S. hostage

If I were her mom, I would pray that this report is true. After seeing the brutality of the other hostage killings, I would be praying for a merciful end - not torture.


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## RNprepper

Personally, I think she was already dead from the abuse she most likely had already sustained. (Or maybe she managed to commit suicide.) The airstrike just makes a convenient excuse for not showing her execution or body. It also attempts to drive a wedge between Jordan and the U.S.


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## James m

"Driving a wedge between Jordan and the U.S." thats the point, the story states there were 0 isis casualties.


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## Titan6

I think they had killed her a while back...I will pray this evening for the family and the fallen comrade...I will also pray for Jordan and hope The almighty will watch over their warriors and help them in their campaign against this evil that has entered the world since our leaders sit back and let the evil continue to thrive....


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## Camel923

RNprepper said:


> Personally, I think she was already dead from the abuse she most likely had already sustained. (Or maybe she managed to commit suicide.) The airstrike just makes a convenient excuse for not showing her execution or body. It also attempts to drive a wedge between Jordan and the U.S.


Taking into consideration the track record of whom we are dealing with, this is very likely.


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## Smitty901

Where is our King, playing golf I guess he will get back to us.
What should bother us most is the person was there to help people an AID worker. She was not for or against she was there to try and help .
The very people Obama refuse to label terrorist took her hostage. And still he refuses. Obama can stomach good people do things for others. He wants the Government doing it. He will not shed a tear for her.


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## Urinal Cake

I call it ISIS Bullshit.


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## paraquack

If we offered to trade Obama and all of his cabinet for hostages, do you think we could get 1 or 2.


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## 1skrewsloose

If it is not written in the "koran" get the accent right, I can't conceive how to pronounce it in writing, it does not apply to other folks who do not abide my its teaching. Has anyone else noticed that he calls them "moooslims", everyone else says muslims!!. We, no, they, elected a muslim president in the United States. May God have mercy!!
I probably posted inappropriately here. Sorry!! We are soon to be the minority and have no say!


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## 1skrewsloose

It's been said before, nuke the place and turn it all into glass, they have never gotten along since forever.


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## Arklatex

It's real convenient that isis would blame Jordan for her death. I also believe that she was already dead. Kind of like that jordanian pilot they tried to use as a bargaining chip.


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## Jakthesoldier

Weep not for me, for I chose this life. I knew the consequences and accept my fate. Do not cheapen my sacrifice by your outcry, rather solidify it's meaning by fighting harder and accomplishing the mission.


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## Frostbite

Another meaningless death.

There will be a flurry of airstrikes and ISIS will keep their heads down for a while.....then the eternal war will stumble on as usual.

We have no clear strategy, plan or endgame, other than using up all the war equipment we possibly can to maximize profits for the war-mongering rulers who sell it.


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## Jakthesoldier

Frostbite said:


> Another meaningless death.
> 
> There will be a flurry of airstrikes and ISIS will keep their heads down for a while.....then the eternal war will stumble on as usual.
> 
> We have no clear strategy, plan or endgame, other than using up all the war equipment we possibly can to maximize profits for the war-mongering rulers who sell it.


NEVER cheapen the sacrifice of a service member. NEVER. We do what we do with reason and for a cause. Maybe not YOUR cause, maybe not the government's cause, sometimes just for the one to our right and left. NEVER cheapen our sacrifice.


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## Frostbite

I can't see a single death since Bush started this whole thing that has moved us forward or made anything better for anybody.

If you see something, though.....do tell.


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## Slippy

Frostbite said:


> I can't see a single death since Bush started this whole thing that has moved us forward or made anything better for anybody.
> 
> If you see something, though.....do tell.


Hey Dipshit, 
Take your worn out, tired old "Bush Started It" whiny ass and head on back to the commie liberal hole from where you came.
Thanks


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## Jakthesoldier

Frostbite said:


> I can't see a single death since Bush started this whole thing that has moved us forward or made anything better for anybody.
> 
> If you see something, though.....do tell.


I'm guessing your exposure to the war effort is limited to what you see on the news. Having been there I have seen something very different. We built schools, provided humanitarian aid to the people. Smoothed relations between communities. Removed insurgents and those attempting to extort the population with fear and violence. But that stuff doesn't ever make the news because it doesn't get ratings


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## Smitty901

Frostbite said:


> I can't see a single death since Bush started this whole thing that has moved us forward or made anything better for anybody.
> 
> If you see something, though.....do tell.


 We kept them out of your yard. Now it seems Obama wants them here. Iraq/Afghanistan was never about 911 it was to keep them busy on their own soil and not ours.
We could do nothing about 911 it already happened. Bush and others knew there was a storm coming we just kept it on their side of the world.
Iraq did have chemical l weapons and had just them. Most ended up in Syria where we once again had to deal with them.
Wake up there is a nasty scary world out there and you don't want to fight them here . Few here are tough enough. If you think Bush started this you must have been a sleep or not born yet. This has been brewing a lot longer than you think. Let Obama have his way and you'll find out what it like.


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## Jakthesoldier

Slippy said:


> Hey Dipshit,
> Take your worn out, tired old "Bush Started It" whiny ass and head on back to the commie liberal hole from where you came.
> Thanks


Come on slippy. While he may be misinformed, rather than bashing let's educate. Show people why what they have been brain washed into believing by liberal media and loberal higher education is wrong and useless.


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## Slippy

Jakthesoldier said:


> Come on slippy. While he may be misinformed, rather than bashing let's educate. Show people why what they have been brain washed into believing by liberal media and loberal higher education is wrong and useless.


Jak,
I've come to the conclusion that many of these mentally ill cannot be educated. They are simply too far gone, too stupid, and too brainwashed. We cannot save everyone, try as we may.
Time to cut bait on most of them. 
(But I appreciate your positive attitude!)
Slippy


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## Smitty901

One more thing NEWS flash . More US soldiers died in Afghanistan under Obama than Bush. but don't facts get in the way. Obama ended nothing he open the flood gates of Muslim hell.


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## Frostbite

Jakthesoldier said:


> We built schools, provided humanitarian aid to the people. Smoothed relations between communities. Removed insurgents and those attempting to extort the population with fear and violence. But that stuff doesn't ever make the news because it doesn't get ratings


On the contrary--I've seen all that propaganda on the news. All of it. Over and over and over. But I'm pretty much immune to the lies of those who profit from war.

Contrary to the propaganda, I see that things are worse in the U.S. I see that things are far worse in Afghanistan. I see that things are far worse in Iraq.

The war profiteers are better off. Everybody else is screwed, getting screwed or dead or maimed.

I'm retired military.


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## littleblackdevil

I really hate those guys.


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## Jakthesoldier

Then stop cheapen ing the sacrifices of your brothers and sisters. Our situations may not be ideal, but having PERSONALLY participated in each of the projects I listed I can assure you things were better when I left than when I arrived. But uncommitted slackjawed sissies who can't crack an egg to make an omlette are the reason we pulled out too soon and left a void that was instantly filled by people more committed than our own government. I'd dare you to go down to any rehab center for our vets and ask soldiers of this war if they think we should have pulled out. While most agree we never should have gone, we are all pissed that our brothers and sisters deaths were basically wasted pulling out before the job was done. If you are retired military I ask how you could cheapen our sacrifice in such a way. Maybe you were just a garrison pen pusher with no real understanding of what is going on, or maybe you are disillusioned by your own experiences. Never take away from our sacrifices. Never.


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## Frostbite

Smitty901 said:


> We kept them out of your yard. Now it seems Obama wants them here. Iraq/Afghanistan was never about 911 it was to keep them busy on their own soil and not ours.
> We could do nothing about 911 it already happened. Bush and others knew there was a storm coming we just kept it on their side of the world.
> Iraq did have chemical l weapons and had just them. Most ended up in Syria where we once again had to deal with them.
> Wake up there is a nasty scary world out there and you don't want to fight them here . Few here are tough enough. If you think Bush started this you must have been a sleep or not born yet. This has been brewing a lot longer than you think. Let Obama have his way and you'll find out what it like.


None of them were headed anywhere near "my yard."

Any claim that they were "stopped" is just speculation. No evidence that the wars have had any impact on that at all.

As for Obama, he's getting his way. He works for the war profiteers......and profits are way up with no end in sight.

I've got a fairly good handle on this. I'm a retired military historian.


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## Frostbite

Jakthesoldier said:


> Then stop cheapen ing the sacrifices of your brothers and sisters. Our situations may not be ideal, but having PERSONALLY participated in each of the projects I listed I can assure you things were better when I left than when I arrived. But uncommitted slackjawed sissies who can't crack an egg to make an omlette are the reason we pulled out too soon and left a void that was instantly filled by people more committed than our own government. I'd dare you to go down to any rehab center for our vets and ask soldiers of this war if they think we should have pulled out. While most agree we never should have gone, we are all pissed that our brothers and sisters deaths were basically wasted pulling out before the job was done. If you are retired military I ask how you could cheapen our sacrifice in such a way. Maybe you were just a garrison pen pusher with no real understanding of what is going on, or maybe you are disillusioned by your own experiences. Never take away from our sacrifices. Never.


The sacrifices are exactly what they are......tragic. And that's the end of it.


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## Jakthesoldier

Frostbite said:


> None of them were headed anywhere near "my yard."
> 
> Any claim that they were "stopped" is just speculation. No evidence that the wars have had any impact on that at all.
> 
> As for Obama, he's getting his way. He works for the war profiteers......and profits are way up with no end in sight.
> 
> I've got a fairly good handle on this. I'm a retired military historian.


Ugh. And a retard. Sometimes conspiracy theories aren't theories. Sometimes they aren't even conspiracies.

If he worked for war profeteers WE WOULD STILL BE THERE.


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## Frostbite

Jakthesoldier said:


> While most agree we never should have gone, we are all pissed that our brothers and sisters deaths were basically wasted pulling out before the job was done.


Most of what you stay is standard stuff and common enough (although I totally disagree with it).

I'm interested in your above statement, though. What is your impression of how the job should have been done and what Irag would look like if the job had been done.


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## Jakthesoldier

Frostbite said:


> Most of what you stay is standard stuff and common enough (although I totally disagree with it).
> 
> I'm interested in your above statement, though. What is your impression of how the job should have been done and what Irag would look like if the job had been done.


When iraq had a solid established and accepted government capable of supporting it's population, enforcing it's laws, and maintaining fair elections, had a military and police that could protect the citizens from outside threats, and tyrannical government, established laws and schools, hospitals, and commerce. With everyone trained and competent and capable of training the next generations, then we would have been done


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## Frostbite

Jakthesoldier said:


> When iraq had a solid established and accepted government capable of supporting it's population, enforcing it's laws, and maintaining fair elections, had a military and police that could protect the citizens from outside threats, and tyrannical government, established laws and schools, hospitals, and commerce. With everyone trained and competent and capable of training the next generations, then we would have been done


Since Iraq is basically three different countries with different goals and interests, I don't see that as possible. Once Saddam Hussein was gone it was destined for a long and bloody three-way civil war between Kurds, Shias and Sunnis and some sort of three-way split is probably how it will end.

If we accomplished anything there it was to set the stage for that civil war.

Your goal is an unrealistic dream according to the reality that is Iraq.

That's my take on it, anyway......time will tell. I predict that it goes exactly as I said......a three-way split among the three factions.

I predicted this more than ten years ago, by the way.


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## Jakthesoldier

Frostbite said:


> Since Iraq is basically three different countries with different goals and interests, I don't see that as possible. Once Saddam Hussein was gone it was destined for a long and bloody three-way civil war between Kurds, Shias and Sunnis and some sort of three-way split is probably how it will end.
> 
> If we accomplished anything there it was to set the stage for that civil war.
> 
> Your goal is an unrealistic dream according to the reality that is Iraq.
> 
> That's my take on it, anyway......time will tell. I predict that it goes exactly as I said......a three-way split among the three factions.


Well as bad as he may have been, Sadam did it just fine. The denar was worth 15 times the US dollar until we took him out then instantly plummeted to 200 times less valuable. We crushed a nation in persuit of a dictator, whatever the reasons.


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## jimb1972

paraquack said:


> If we offered to trade Obama and all of his cabinet for hostages, do you think we could get 1 or 2.


I say we just hand them over with no requirements in an effort to build a better relationship with the misunderstood insurgents.


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## Gunner's Mate

Drop the Nuke come on


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## Gunner's Mate

PHQ these Mother PHQers up WTF


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## Gunner's Mate

Quit Trying to fight wars politically correct


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## Jakthesoldier

Aaaaaand I'm out on this one


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## Frostbite

Jakthesoldier said:


> If he (Obama) worked for war profeteers WE WOULD STILL BE THERE (Iraq).


We're there. We never really left. Now we're increasing our presence steadily.

War profits. See how that works?


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## Smitty901

Frostbite said:


> We're there. We never really left. Now we're increasing our presence steadily.
> 
> War profits. See how that works?


 Simplistic view not based in facts. No madder how just a cause maybe someone will always make a profit off it and others lose. That does not alter the need for it to be done.


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## Frostbite

Smitty901 said:


> Simplistic view not based in facts. No madder how just a cause maybe someone will always make a profit off it and others lose. That does not alter the need for it to be done.


Not based on facts?

Are we, or are we not, steadily increasing our troops and airstrikes in Iraq?

Yes, we are. That's a fact.

Are war profits steadily increasing in the face of this re-escalation of the war?

Yes, that's a fact.


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## Smitty901

Frostbite said:


> Not based on facts?
> 
> Are we, or are we not, steadily increasing our troops and airstrikes in Iraq?
> 
> Yes, we are. That's a fact.
> 
> Are war profits steadily increasing in the face of this re-escalation of the war?
> 
> Yes, that's a fact.


 Next we went to Iraq for oil because Bush wanted to take over the oil in the middle east. UW system been preaching that junk for year. We don't get oil form the middle east never did. Less than 10% of the oil based products we use come from middle east.
We are going back to the middle east one way or another. We will have this fight today tomorrow next year we will have it. There will be no peace until the middle east is taken down hard.


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## Frostbite

Smitty901 said:


> We will have this fight today tomorrow next year we will have it. There will be no peace until the middle east is taken down hard.


Tell us exactly what you mean by "taken down hard." Details would be interesting.

I'm not sure if you remember "Shock and Awe." We took down Iraq about as hard as anything can be taken down......yet here we are.

So, do tell. How would we take the Middle East down hard?


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## Smitty901

Frostbite said:


> Tell us exactly what you mean by "taken down hard." Details would be interesting.
> 
> I'm not sure if you remember "Shock and Awe." We took down Iraq about as hard as anything can be taken down......yet here we are.
> 
> So, do tell. How would we take the Middle East down hard?


 No we did not we did not finish it. Yes we kick ass on the major fight but we never finished it we have not finished anything sense WW2. We fight nice wars . 
It aint over until they are begging you to stop. Then no terms or deals on their part . Only this is how it will be. We have no friends in the Middle East not one.
Nor are we likely to for a long time to come. Only those are fight now, those we should be fight and the rest we will fight latter.
Back to it was all Bushes fault 911 was pulled off by Cheney and Bush and it was about the oil. State UW system still teaches Bush did 911.
If you were there you know darn well if it had not been for KBR those of us in the field would have been eating 3 MRE's a day forever KBR feed us like kings in places no one could have. We could not do it our self because we do not have the soldiers to do it any more. KBR was cheap for what we got. With out contractors providing support we are done in 30 days.


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## Frostbite

Smitty901 said:


> No we did not we did not finish it. Yes we kick ass on the major fight but we never finished it we have not finished anything sense WW2. We fight nice wars .
> It aint over until they are begging you to stop. Then no terms or deals on their part . Only this is how it will be. We have no friends in the Middle East not one.
> Nor are we likely to for a long time to come. Only those are fight now, those we should be fight and the rest we will fight latter.
> Back to it was all Bushes fault 911 was pulled off by Cheney and Bush and it was about the oil. State UW system still teaches Bush did 911.
> If you were there you know darn well if it had not been for KBR those of us in the field would have been eating 3 MRE's a day forever KBR feed us like kings in places no one could have. We could not do it our self because we do not have the soldiers to do it any more. KBR was cheap for what we got. With out contractors providing support we are done in 30 days.


That didn't answer the question.


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## Slippy

I don't remember if someone on this forum or elsewhere suggested it but until we destroy every single islamist that we meet in each battle save 1 filthy muslime.

Take that 1 filthy muslime and cut off his legs at the knees, his hands at the wrists, his tongue and voice box so that he cannot "pray" to his evil pedophile mohammed. Cut off his genitalia so that he cannot abuse women and children and use the sinew of a pig to stitch his wounds. Then send him back to the next village or drop him off where the next group of islamists are waiting to fight us. Stitch a note explaining this will happen again and again. 

Rinse, lather and repeat as often as necessary. All the while destroying them in battle. 

Until we are willing to do something like that, we will not win.

Oh yeah, I agree with the **** in the white house, close Gitmo. BUT first inject every prisoner with the blood of a pig prior to killing them swiftly. Save 1 to send back in the above state...


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## Smitty901

Slippy said:


> I don't remember if someone on this forum or elsewhere suggested it but until we destroy every single islamist that we meet in each battle save 1 filthy muslime.
> 
> Take that 1 filthy muslime and cut off his legs at the knees, his hands at the wrists, his tongue and voice box so that he cannot "pray" to his evil pedophile mohammed. Cut off his genitalia so that he cannot abuse women and children and use the sinew of a pig to stitch his wounds. Then send him back to the next village or drop him off where the next group of islamists are waiting to fight us. Stitch a note explaining this will happen again and again.
> 
> Rinse, lather and repeat as often as necessary. All the while destroying them in battle.
> 
> Until we are willing to do something like that, we will not win.
> 
> Oh yeah, I agree with the **** in the white house, close Gitmo. BUT first inject every prisoner with the blood of a pig prior to killing them swiftly. Save 1 to send back in the above state...


 Thank you I had wanted to nit get to fired up myself. And when that is done we drop a dime to the peace makers and let them know now it is your turn have a talk with what is left. Then send the soldiers home . we are not peace keeps we and not Police officers. We are the one you hope you never need but when you do get out of the way and let us finish it.


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## Frostbite

So, you don't have any realistic ideas?


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## Smitty901

Frostbite said:


> So, you don't have any realistic ideas?


 Well you want to blame Bush and the war machine, blame it on oil praise Obama not much will make you happy. 
Turn a big part of the middle east into a hole in the ground then when the dust settles and what is left has a chance to think about it, ask who would like to be next.


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## Frostbite

Hole in the ground......ok, I figured we'd get to that.

Finally.

:armata_PDT_12:


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## Smitty901

Frostbite said:


> Hole in the ground......ok, I figured we'd get to that.
> 
> Finally.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


 You want to hear it . ok I have no problem killing Muslims. They have been and will not stop kill Americans and others . You may not have a problem with what they do.
I do have a problem with it. There are no moderate Muslims not one. So you can live in your phony liberal world all you want. That will not change anything.


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## 8301

Short of killing them all and letting God sort them out (something I could never recommend since 90 percent of them don't think that way) I don't see any solution except through education and getting the good 90 percent to turn out the bad 10 percent.

But I've got to admit I'm tired of waiting for the decent thinking Muslims to take matters into their own hands (Kurds excepted, they kick ISIS butt). If the fanatic Muslims were able to truly form an independent self governing country with a clearly defined capitol instead of the still terror run "capitol" city they now claim to have I'd suggest a small tactical nuke hitting their capitol building. But it still wouldn't stop the idiots.

Sometimes you just can't cure STUPID.


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## 8301

And the bad part is that most of the fanatical Muslims are stupid (uneducated), or at least have very little education when it comes to reading the Koran for themselves. Most Muslims can read same as you and me but the Radical Rabbi's preach to people who can't read well so can't read that the Koran doesn't agree with what they are doing. Kind of like Christians during the middle ages when Mass was read in Latin.

Personally I think Muslims are wrong in their belief about God but my Bible doesn't tell us to go kill unbelievers. The Koran doesn't say that either.


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## Arklatex

The koran actually does say to kill the unbelievers. 

Koran 8:12--- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"


Koran 8:39---"And fight with them until there is no more fitna*(disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"


There are lots of other examples in the book. These are the more commonly used ones.


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## paraquack

This is how it was done before political correctness of the progressives took over.
View attachment 9737


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## 8301

Arklatex said:


> The koran actually does say to kill the unbelievers.
> 
> Koran 8:12--- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
> 
> Koran 8:39---"And fight with them until there is no more fitna*(disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"
> 
> There are lots of other examples in the book. These are the more commonly used ones.


Guess I've been listening to the talking heads on TV too much. I thought the Koran was a lot less "kill all unbelievers".


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## Deebo

Religion of peace huh?


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## Smitty901

No desire to kill them for their faith. Kill them for what they do. Don't give a rats tail about their faith. One group of them carry out the acts the other quietly supports them . Nothing in between.
Like it or not never was my job to make peace, my job was to forces others to beg for it. I have a lot more experience with Muslims than you do.


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## Frostbite

FoolAmI said:


> I thought the Koran was a lot less "kill all unbelievers".


You were correct in thinking so. It never says "kill all unbelievers." It says the opposite and urges mercy for conquered enemies.

Those passages somebody quoted earlier are pulled out of context. When you read it in full instead of cherry-picking for hate fodder, you find that those passages refer to specific "unbelievers" not ALL unbelievers.

Truth is, unbelievers were allowed to live in peace in Muslim society, but had to pay a special tax to do so.

The people talked about in* those particular passages that were quoted above* had not only attacked the Muslims, they attacked them after a peace agreement. Thus they got special violence because they could not be trusted.

The Koran is indeed a book of peace, but it allows for killing in self defense.

The major problems in Islam today come from the Hadith, holy writings which were written after the Koran and contain many ideas that are disputed by many Muslims. The writers were a mixture of good guys and bad guys who wrote some things that are obviously nonsensical (like the 99 virgins thing that gets so much attention).

Now, maybe we should compare the Bible and the Koran.

If we go to the Bible, we find a God that is nothing less than a genocidal maniac......encouraging His children to murder entire nations of people.

Violent passages in the Koran and the Bible - The Boston Globe



> *Not only do the Israelites in the Bible commit repeated acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing, but they do so under direct divine command (direct orders from God). According to the first book of Samuel, God orders King Saul to strike at the Amalekite people, killing every man, woman, and child, and even wiping out their livestock.* (1 Samuel 15:2-3).


The Koran says this about unbelievers:



> *Sura 109:
> 
> In the name of the merciful and compassionate God.
> 
> 1 Say, 'O ye unbelievers! 2 I do not serve what ye serve; 3 nor will ye serve what I serve; 4 nor will I serve what ye serve; 5 nor will ye serve what I serve. 6 Ye have your religion, and I have my religion!' *


Now that will give you a more honest picture of what the Koran teaches.

Of course, like the Bible, those who wish to twist the words will always twist them to their own ends.

But those are the terrorists (on both sides).


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## Smitty901

I knew his true colors would come out . Back to Obama training camp for you , exposed your self.
Make my words I have and will kill them it is us or them no other option.


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## Frostbite

Another problem with the above hate quotes is that they are inaccurate.

The work of translating the Koran is FAR, FAR behind the work of translating other religious texts and many translations are actually intentionally twisted to promote hate.

While it is clearly a choice for some to embrace hate and ignorance (and that is their right) the opportunity to see correct translations is available to all through the wonders of the internet.

For those who wish to see accurate and non-hateful information, a thorough study of the below link will prove incredibly enlightening.

Yusuf Estes Correcting Quran Misquotes


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## Slippy

I'll say it again, islam is a socio-political ideology of world domination. The islamists want to convert or kill you. Those who want to convert you are willing to fund those who want to kill you. The entire premise of islam being a religion is comical at best, evil in reality. The notion of a prophet who allows for lies and the murder/rape/sodomy/abuse of women, children and infidels is bizarre. 

Cowards, pedophiles, packs of murdering idiots, the lot of them.

Thanks for listening,

Slippy:icon_smile:


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## Smitty901

Frostbite said:


> Another problem with the above hate quotes is that they are inaccurate.
> 
> The work of translating the Koran is FAR, FAR behind the work of translating other religious texts and many translations are actually intentionally twisted to promote hate.
> 
> While it is clearly a choice for some to embrace hate and ignorance (and that is their right) the opportunity to see correct translations is available to all through the wonders of the internet.
> 
> For those who wish to see accurate and non-hateful information, a thorough study of the below link will prove incredibly enlightening.
> 
> Yusuf Estes Correcting Quran Misquotes


 Spent a lot of time there, had a sister the grew up there English was her second langue your have been sadly misled


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## Frostbite

Slippy said:


> I'll say it again, islam is a socio-political ideology of world domination. The islamists want to convert or kill you. Those who want to convert you are willing to fund those who want to kill you. The entire premise of islam being a religion is comical at best, evil in reality. The notion of a prophet who allows for lies and the murder/rape/sodomy/abuse of women, children and infidels is bizarre.
> 
> Cowards, pedophiles, packs of murdering idiots, the lot of them.
> 
> Thanks for listening,
> 
> Slippy:icon_smile:


Obviously, there's a lot of hate on both sides.

Which is why the rest of us should try to mitigate that hate, at least to a certain extent.


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## Frostbite

Smitty901 said:


> Spent a lot of time there, had a sister the grew up there English was her second langue your have been sadly misled


Well, I predict that if you spend some time studying the link Yusuf Estes Correcting Quran Misquotes you'll find that you'll learn a lot.

It not only corrects the errors in translation, it provides historical commentary to explain the words in terms of the real-life events that were happening in that era.


----------



## Slippy

Frostbite said:


> Obviously, there's a lot of hate on both sides.
> 
> Which is why the rest of us should try to mitigate that hate, at least to a certain extent.


Don't be foolish. Or should I say, "don't be more foolish." The islamists want me dead for no other reason than I don't ascribe to their socio-political ideology of world domination. Period. The fact that they have fooled people into believing otherwise has no bearing on the truth.


----------



## TacticalCanuck

It's sad when anyone dies due to conflict, whatever the reasons. Especially non-combatants. They didn't ask to be part of it. I don't know her story, but I'll say a prayer for her family.


----------



## Raven

1skrewsloose said:


> If it is not written in the "koran" get the accent right, I can't conceive how to pronounce it in writing, it does not apply to other folks who do not abide my its teaching. Has anyone else noticed that he calls them "moooslims", everyone else says muslims!!. We, no, they, elected a muslim president in the United States. May God have mercy!!
> I probably posted inappropriately here. Sorry!! We are soon to be the minority and have no say!


I don't think that we have any say now :frown:


----------



## Frostbite

Slippy said:


> Don't be foolish. Or should I say, "don't be more foolish." The islamists want me dead for no other reason than I don't ascribe to their socio-political ideology of world domination.


What is truly foolish, I believe, is to lump all Muslims together as one group.

They make up 23% of the world's population and total 1.6 Billion.

Only a tiny percentage want to kill you......the rest are either friendly toward you or open to being friendly if you give it a chance.

Fear and hate are toxic.......and contagious.


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> What is truly foolish, I believe, is to lump all Muslims together as one group.
> 
> They make up 23% of the world's population and total 1.6 Billion.
> 
> Only a tiny percentage want to kill you......the rest are either friendly toward you or open to being friendly if you give it a chance.
> 
> Fear and hate are toxic.......and contagious.


Really? You are certain of that, are you?

One thing is for sure; you'll never prove that by using the Qur'an or the hadiths.

Now, were our own Slippy a Christian in Pakistan, Egypt, or even Bangladesh... BANGLADESH Dinajpur, Catholic village attacked. Bishop: End the violence - Asia News

See, just because you aren't paying attention to the atrocities around the world that is committed by the adherents of that oppressive system of conquest and assimilation wrapped in a veil of empty religion doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Here is a picture of the girl who was trying to help Muslims. She learned the lesson a wee bit too late.










Pretending there will be a safe place for you if the world becomes in the grips of a global caliphate is to ignore the texts that drive the adherents of the religion of submission.


----------



## Arklatex

Was wondering when denton would chime in on this nonsense. Time for the facts to come out.


----------



## Denton

Arklatex said:


> Was wondering when denton would chime in on this nonsense. Time for the facts to come out.


I stumbled into the thread because I was curious why it was still rolling along. Only so much to be said about the incident, so I figured there was more to the thread than just that.


----------



## Frostbite

LOL!

Denton is not just wrong.....he's overwhelmingly wrong.

Are All Terrorists Muslims? It?s Not Even Close - The Daily Beast



> *this will probably shock many, so you might want to take a breath: Overwhelmingly, those who have committed terrorist attacks in the United States and Europe aren't Muslims. Let's give that a moment to sink in.
> 
> Now, it's not your fault if you aren't aware of that fact. You can blame the media. (Yes, Sarah Palin and I actually agree on one thing: The mainstream media sucks.)*


----------



## James m

I think they chained her in a building they knew was going to be bombed.


----------



## Frostbite

Then there's this:

FOX NEWS: Only Muslims have ever killed anybody in the name of religion



> *A grim tour through time and space, but mostly I'm just talking RECENTLY. Because one of the right-wing arguments I'm confronting says that because the Crusades were so long ago, there's no reason to get upset about them any more.
> 
> Central African Republic. "Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias."
> 
> Burma: Buddhists kill scores of Muslims.
> 
> From Alternet - 10 killings in the U.S. inspired by Christianity, starting with the Sikh Temple.
> 
> A Princeton University Press book on Hindu violence against Muslims in India. More recently, Hindus force Christians to convert.
> 
> Three Jews confess to burning Palestinian teenager alive.
> 
> On the role played by militant rabbis in the murder of Rabin (Jews killing Jews over religion).
> 
> And none of this excuses the horrific acts of violence perpetrated by Muslims.
> 
> The problem isn't Islam. The problem isn't Christianity or any other religion either. The problem is ideology. When an ideology splits the world between us and them, same and other, human and dehumanized, it enables violence.*


----------



## Frostbite

There are some folks, I suppose, who forgot why we bombed Serbia.

Jogging those memories......there was a little *massacre of Muslims* at Srebrenica. More than 8,000 ethnic Bosnians were killed by Serbian troops led by infamous war criminal Ratko Mladić.

Oh yeah, but somehow the *American Media seem to blame it all on Muslims.*

Face it......most Americans are *brainwashed* by their own Media........Media owned by the ultra-rich who have a stake in.....what?

Eternal war......and the ensuing *eternal profits.*

While good young American men and women *die and and lose their limbs* to provide those profits.


----------



## Frostbite

Can't prove it from the Koran, Denton?

Ah, but I already did earlier in the thread.



> *Sura 109:
> 
> In the name of the merciful and compassionate God.
> 
> 1 Say, 'O ye unbelievers! 2 I do not serve what ye serve; 3 nor will ye serve what I serve; 4 nor will I serve what ye serve; 5 nor will ye serve what I serve. 6 Ye have your religion, and I have my religion!' *


That's what the Koran says.

Yes, Muslim terrorists disregard the Koran......just as Christian terrorists disregard the words of their "Christ."

Point is, both the Christian terrorists and the Muslim terrorists are equally wrong......both psychotic murderers. Both representing a sick minority among a vastly larger religion.

Which is why we should try to take a more rational stance and begin the process of actually solving the problem.



Frostbite said:


> Another problem with the above hate quotes is that they are inaccurate.
> 
> The work of translating the Koran is FAR, FAR behind the work of translating other religious texts and many translations are actually intentionally twisted to promote hate.
> 
> While it is clearly a choice for some to embrace hate and ignorance (and that is their right) the opportunity to see correct translations is available to all through the wonders of the internet.
> 
> For those who wish to see accurate and non-hateful information, a thorough study of the below link will prove incredibly enlightening.
> 
> Yusuf Estes Correcting Quran Misquotes


Study that link and you'll find it a real eye-opener......you've been fed lies by the rich warmongers who get richer by using their lying MEDIA to promote hate and killing.

Eternal war brings them eternal profit and riches.


----------



## oddapple

You're an eternal child or maybe you know how myopic and goofy all that is. Either way, it's pretty irrelevant all considered. Those mutts will do their will and nature
Fine. So will others. Way overdue.


----------



## Denton

Dang. Didn't see this going on, Frosty. I am not at the house and am very slow on this tablet. I will get back with you as soon as I can.


----------



## Frostbite

An example of what you find at that link......it clearly shows that the Koran commands peace, justice and mercy--just as the Bible commands.


> Misquoted Verse #8
> 
> 9:5 Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
> 
> This verse, often called "the verse of the sword", has been misquoted in a manner similar to the previous verses. First, we shall provide the verse in its context:
> 
> 9:5-6 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and *then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.*
> 
> Having presented the verse in context, we can analyze it properly. Dr. Maher Hathout gives an explanation on the historical context of the verse:
> 
> This verse was revealed towards the end of the revelation period and relates to a limited context. Hostilities were frozen for a three-month period during which the Arabs pledged not to wage war. Prophet *Muhammad was inspired to use this period to encourage the combatants to join the Muslim ranks or, if they chose, to leave the area that was under Muslims rule; however, if they were to resume hostilities, then the Muslims would fight back until victorious. *
> 
> One is inspired to note that even in this context of war, the verse concludes by emphasizing the divine attributes of mercy and forgiveness. *To minimize hostilities, the Qur'an ordered Muslims to grant asylum to anyone, even an enemy, who sought refuge.* Asylum would be granted according to the customs of chivalry; the person would be told the message of the Qur'an but not coerced into accepting that message. Thereafter, he or she would be escorted to safety regardless of his or her religion. (9:6). (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, pp.52-53, emphasis added)
> 
> Therefore, this verse once again* refers to those pagans who would resume the fight* after the period of peace. It *clearly commands the Muslims to protect those who seek peace* and are non-combatants. It is a specific verse with a specific ruling and can in no way be applied to general situations.


Thus wisdom comes to those who walk in love rather than blind hate.


----------



## Frostbite

No hurry, Denton.

I'm old, but I'll hang on for a few more years (I hope).

I'm retired, so I can always use my computer, being always at home.

Tablets are the spawn of Satan.

:armata_PDT_12:


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> An example of what you find at that link......it clearly shows that the Koran commands peace, justice and mercy--just as the Bible commands.
> 
> Thus wisdom comes to those who walk in love rather than blind hate.


You are not telling the whole story, and the whole story is what happens when the non-Muslims is taken back to the "rear" and Islam is shared with him. He now has three choices; convert, be a slave or be dead. You see, reading the whole of the Verse of the Sword does not change that.

Regarding the second thought, we see through history of Islam that conquest is paramount, even if it means giving a three month period for inhabitants to either convert or flee. Did Islam spread throughout the Middle East, into Africa, Persia and even Europe as did Christianity, or did it spread through military conquest?

Now, we also have to look at the portion of the second thought that refers to land previously under Muslim rule. Islam teaches that the Jewish patrons and even before, all the way to Adam, were Muslim, even though Muhammad had not brought the change in divine policy, yet. What does that mean? That means all lands of the Jews and the Christians were Muslim even before Muhammad was born. As Allah is the Arab moon god, the Arab lands of Muhammad's family was also Muslim.

That isn't even the end of it. We are also to believe that Islam is not to go to war with the non-Muslim unless the non-Muslim commits an act of aggression. Then, it is permitted to go to war. Fact is, and this is also historical not only in Western history but also in the hadiths, simply rejecting the offer to become Muslim and become a part of dar al Islam, a nation is committing an act of war against it. One may see this in today's current events, as Muslim consensus throughout the world is the murders at Charlie Hebdo was righteous as Charlie Hebdo's magazine was heinous and worthy of war.

Yes, the hadiths are as important in the Muslim world as is the Qur'an. One cannot understand Islam without understanding what Muhammad said and did, and the hadiths are first hand accounts of Muhammad's words and deeds.

You want to compare Christianity with Islam, but there is no comparison. Jesus didn't preach peace only among Christians, allowing peace with the non-Christians until they have a little while to determine if they want to be a Christian or to accept the position of what Islam calls dhimmitude. In Christianity, one is to do unto others as one would have other do unto you. In Islam, one is to be merciful among other Muslims (Islamic history makes it clear that means those Muslims who are members of their particular way of believing) and to be forceful against unbelievers.


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> No hurry, Denton.
> 
> I'm old, but I'll hang on for a few more years (I hope).
> 
> I'm retired, so I can always use my computer, being always at home.
> 
> Tablets are the spawn of Satan.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


I HATE my tablet. That is why I try not to respond with it. I become enraged at it, and that sometimes makes it appear as if I am enraged at the board.

I still work, and the boss thinks I will be in, shortly. LOL!


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> Can't prove it from the Koran, Denton?
> 
> Ah, but I already did earlier in the thread.
> 
> That's what the Koran says.
> 
> Yes, Muslim terrorists disregard the Koran......just as Christian terrorists disregard the words of their "Christ."
> 
> Point is, both the Christian terrorists and the Muslim terrorists are equally wrong......both psychotic murderers. Both representing a sick minority among a vastly larger religion.
> 
> Which is why we should try to take a more rational stance and begin the process of actually solving the problem.
> 
> Study that link and you'll find it a real eye-opener......you've been fed lies by the rich warmongers who get richer by using their lying MEDIA to promote hate and killing.
> 
> Eternal war brings them eternal profit and riches.


Studying what others attempt to tell me is not as good as studying Islam on my own, thanks.

Now, look at surah 110:

When the victory of Allah has come and the *conquest*,
And you see the people entering into the religion of Allah in multitudes,
Then exalt [Him] with praise of your Lord and ask forgiveness of Him. Indeed, He is ever Accepting of repentance.

Yes, I brought out the word conquest.

Yes, I do not believe as the Muslims and they do not believe as I do. That is not what I would call earth-shattering by itself.


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> There are some folks, I suppose, who forgot why we bombed Serbia.
> 
> Jogging those memories......there was a little *massacre of Muslims* at Srebrenica. More than 8,000 ethnic Bosnians were killed by Serbian troops led by infamous war criminal Ratko Mladić.
> 
> Oh yeah, but somehow the *American Media seem to blame it all on Muslims.*
> 
> Face it......most Americans are *brainwashed* by their own Media........Media owned by the ultra-rich who have a stake in.....what?
> 
> Eternal war......and the ensuing *eternal profits.*
> 
> While good young American men and women *die and and lose their limbs* to provide those profits.


You are right, we went to war for the Muslims. What seems to be forgotten is that the "Ethnic Albanians" were conquering land that belonged to the Infidel. Then again, it was once under Muslim control as it is a part of lands previously conquered.

Now that you brought that up, do some research on how the Christians have been persecuted in their own land after the brilliant U.S. government insured they would be conquered. Churches have been destroyed, Christians murdered, and all of this ignored by the same government (U.S.) that made sure the Muslims would have the upper hand.


----------



## oddapple

I can't believe this conversation is even happening pfft!

On a better note, the little converter that attached his self to my fellas seems to be more "programmed" than anything, like he simply doesn't know what else to say.
Boys told me their house isn't so muslim after all either - more people come here to be us. All that crap they say is just that, because they're programmed and often seem to not be so fond of it as they pretend....

"Hey dumballah, we will sing a song and your victims will dance freely with us in droves and when all the world has abandoned ugly, there may come to be Persians again..."


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> Then there's this:
> 
> FOX NEWS: Only Muslims have ever killed anybody in the name of religion


You seem to be very confused, and you want to compare mountains to molehills.

Take, for example, the mentioned shooting at the Sikh temple. That was not inspired by Christianity, nor was it a Christian who did that.

Central African Republic should also be viewed in context: 'Dire' situation continues in Central African Republic :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)

Three Jews burned the Arabs alive, and it was condemned by Israel. No candy was handed out, Jews did not flood the streets to celebrate.

Jews killing Jews over views. In Alabama, people have killed others over the Alabama/Auburn rivalry. That does not mean that the students of either school are taught to do this.

I believe we can all see the difference in all of this. Whether it be the shooting of a Sikh, the bombing of an abortion clinic, or any other such action, none of it can be justified by word of deed of Jesus. On the other hand, the same can't be said of Muhammad.


----------



## oddapple

All that talk still going the same place. You tore it this time hadje, your leaders are the ones who betray you - just like the ones we have now.
The wars in the middle east occurred because of criss-cross finance deals and at least Christians know how full of it their leaders and clergy are. That puts them 2 ahead of dumb dumb


----------



## Frostbite

Denton said:


> Studying what others attempt to tell me is not as good as studying Islam on my own, thanks.
> 
> Now, look at surah 110:
> 
> When the victory of Allah has come and the *conquest*,
> And you see the people entering into the religion of Allah in multitudes,
> Then exalt [Him] with praise of your Lord and ask forgiveness of Him. Indeed, He is ever Accepting of repentance.
> 
> Yes, I brought out the word conquest.
> 
> Yes, I do not believe as the Muslims and they do not believe as I do. That is not what I would call earth-shattering by itself.


Conquest is what the Christians talk about in the Bible (people entering in their chosen religion in multitudes) so the Muslims talk about it, too. Not a big deal. Many Christian churches talk about and even name themselves names such as "World Dominion Church" but it doesn't mean they go out and force conversions or kill people (we hope).

You miss the point about Sura 109.



> In the name of the merciful and compassionate God.
> 
> 1 Say, 'O ye unbelievers! 2 I do not serve what ye serve; 3 nor will ye serve what I serve; 4 nor will I serve what ye serve; 5 nor will ye serve what I serve. 6 Ye have your religion, and I have my religion!'


*The point is that the Koran does not tell Muslims to force conversion on anyone.*

It very clearly allows for *separate religions *in Sura 109.

The fact that some Christians and some Muslims force conversions simply means they don't read their holy books very well.

It doesn't seem that "studying the Koran on your own" has been successful at all.


----------



## Frostbite

The Muslims, incidentally, revere Jesus as a great prophet.

One can't help but notice that a lot of people on this forum don't seem to respect or pay attention to Jesus at all.

Or......did Jesus tell you to "Nuke'em?"

:armata_PDT_12:


----------



## Frostbite

Denton said:


> FOX NEWS: Only Muslims have ever killed anybody in the name of religion
> 
> Now that you brought that up, do some research on how the Christians have been persecuted in their own land after the brilliant U.S. government insured they would be conquered. Churches have been destroyed, Christians murdered, and all of this ignored by the same government (U.S.) that made sure the Muslims would have the upper hand.


The point is--BOTH sides do massacres and ethnic cleansing.....as do the Jews (obviously, with the ongoing creeping genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestine).

The discussion is about how the Koran is misrepresented through poor translation to be a book commanding war of aggression instead of self defense......and how the Koran allows for other religions to co-exist with Islam.

I have shown that there is no evidence to support blaming the Koran when it is correctly translated.


----------



## Frostbite

Denton said:


> I believe we can all see the difference in all of this. Whether it be the shooting of a Sikh, the bombing of an abortion clinic, or any other such action, none of it can be justified by word of deed of Jesus. On the other hand, the same can't be said of Muhammad.


If you actually believe that......you must not have read my last post (where I destroyed that argument).

:armata_PDT_12:


----------



## Smitty901

Sheepdogs were born to protect the flock


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> Conquest is what the Christians talk about in the Bible (people entering in their chosen religion in multitudes) so the Muslims talk about it, too. Not a big deal. Many Christian churches talk about and even name themselves names such as "World Dominion Church" but it doesn't mean they go out and force conversions or kill people (we hope).
> 
> You miss the point about Sura 109.
> 
> *The point is that the Koran does not tell Muslims to force conversion on anyone.*
> 
> It very clearly allows for *separate religions *in Sura 109.
> 
> The fact that some Christians and some Muslims force conversions simply means they don't read their holy books very well.
> 
> It doesn't seem that "studying the Koran on your own" has been successful at all.


You are mistaken; Christians do not talk about conquest in the Bible. I believe you are confusing the OT with the NT. Even so, the conquests referred to in the Bible were specifically led by God. They were not continuous and up to man's decision.

Now, to be perfectly honest about the Crusades. Yes, in fact, they were responses to the jihads, but bad things did happen at the hands of crusaders. Ugly atrocities, where Muslims and non-Muslims alike were killed, raped and plundered.

No, to be perfectly honest about the honesty. Not all crusaders were Christians or noblemen with pure hearts. Some were bottom of the barrel scum of society who were promised absolution of things they did before the went on the Crusades as well as all things they did while fighting in the Crusades. Today, we are able to read the Bible in our own language. We know that no man has the authority to offer such an absolution.

As far as your assertion that my studies have not been successful on my own, I believe you are not only woefully lacking in your own studies, but you also rely on nothing more than taqyyia writings that are offered by Muslims who know better but are only attempting to cause deception so that people like you are not able to add history, current events and come up to the correct conclusion and understanding.

There is no "conquest" in Christianity. We are to emulate the example Jesus set while sharing the "Good News." If the word is accepted, we are to stay. If not, we are to shake the dust from our sandals and move on. There is, after all, freedom of choice, and it was given all humans by our Creator, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father of our Lord and Savior. We do not wage Jihad in the name of Jesus, we do not give the option of conversion, subjugation (dhimmitude) or death.

On the other hand, you will find in the Qur'an something you will not find in anything taught by Jesus:

Surah 009:029 _Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued._

You might even be one of those people who thinks he has Muslims friends; I don't know. Muhammad had something to say for that in Surah 4:144: _O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?_

On the other hand, Muhammad taught the people who joined his cult how to deal with those who didn't in Surah 9:123: _O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him._

I guess that is hard to understand. No, no it isn't. Oh, and again, your taqqyia sites do not seem to add the hadiths when they are confusing you. There is good reason for that. You'll find that out if you decide to learn on your own, rather than letting that site tell you what to think while you ignore a whole heck of a lot of history.


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> The Muslims, incidentally, revere Jesus as a great prophet.
> 
> One can't help but notice that a lot of people on this forum don't seem to respect or pay attention to Jesus at all.
> 
> Or......did Jesus tell you to "Nuke'em?"
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


Boy, you sure don't get much when it comes to the truth, do you?

Jesus, along with the Jewish patrons, were incorporated into Muhammad's cult, but that doesn't mean anything. Judging by your defense of Islam and in saying they "revere" Jesus, it is probably safe to say you don't know who Jesus is. The Jesus of the Muhammad's creation isn't the same as the Jesus who came to earth as God incarnate, who lived a perfect life and set the perfect example, who was crucified, suffered and died, and then raised from the dead to be witnessed by many before ascending to Heaven to be our defense attorneys in the face of continued indictments by Satan. As a matter of fact, Jesus was incorporated into Islam to be a minor prophet inferior to Muhammad and stripped of His divinity.

Muslims do not declare Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they do not confess their sins to them and then repent of them. They do not pick up their crosses and follow the examples of Jesus. This is self-evident. No more need be said.


----------



## Denton

Frostbite said:


> The point is--BOTH sides do massacres and ethnic cleansing.....as do the Jews (obviously, with the ongoing creeping genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestine).
> 
> The discussion is about how the Koran is misrepresented through poor translation to be a book commanding war of aggression instead of self defense......and how the Koran allows for other religions to co-exist with Islam.
> 
> I have shown that there is no evidence to support blaming the Koran when it is correctly translated.


The point is, only one side can point to their sacred texts to correctly justify massacres and ethnic cleansing. The only one doing this, today, is the adherents to Islam. No one has ever been able to correctly point to a thing said, done by Jesus, while there have been those who kept the language of the Bible to themselves for a time so they could mislead others to fight for them. Furthermore, Israel is not "obviously" conducting any sort of genocide in Israel, Gaza or Judea and Samaria. In fact, I have learned more about you having you said such a thing.

You have shown nothing more than the fact that you ignore history of when Muhammad was alive and waging war, the hadiths that are eye witness accounts of what he did and said that not only condone military conquest, but also other things such as slavery, wife-beating, lying, stoning adulterers, sex with minors...the list goes on.

Now, the question is, would you rather live in a nation where law is founded in Christian ethics, morals and principles, or would you rather live under sharia? If you aren't careful, you'll find yourself living under sharia, and it will be forced upon you through force. Don't worry, the violence will be defensive. Muhammad made it clear that to deny Islam is aggression, and the consequential violence will be defensive. Don't believe it? Study the hadiths.

Anyone else want to waste time with someone who denies hundreds of years of violence, oppression, slavery and death inflicted by those who have accurately followed the examples illustrated by Muhammad, feel free. Time is a wasting, and I have things to do.


----------



## Frostbite

Denton said:


> The point is, only one side can point to their *sacred texts* to correctly justify massacres and ethnic cleansing. The only one doing this, today, is the adherents to Islam.


LOL! The only one doing this today is.......YOU. Read again the discussion. The claim was that the KORAN was used to justify massacres.

Now that I proved this to be untrue, you switch to "sacred texts" instead of Koran. Hey, I already told you about the problems of the Hadith writings and the fact that many Muslims dispute them and most dispute the more bizarre Hadith writings (like the 99 virgins crap).

So your sudden switch from Koran to "sacred texts" has not gone unnoticed......and not gone unlaughed at.

Muslims simply don't use the Koran to justify aggression.....that's a myth.



> ...when Muhammad was alive and waging war, the *hadiths* that are eye witness accounts of what he did and said that not only condone military conquest, but also other things such as slavery, wife-beating, lying, stoning adulterers, sex with minors...the list goes on.


Yes, yes......Hadiths again. Already dealt with that....."many Muslims dispute them and most dispute the more bizarre Hadith writings (like the 99 virgins crap)."

Slavery? The Bible condones that. Sex with minors? Harems? Lying? Stoning? All common in the Bible because those practices were common and accepted in those times. Most Christians dispute these things just as most Muslims dispute many things written in these "Hadiths" you're so fond of citing.

But the original argument was the lie that the Koran commanded killing all unbelievers. You are demonstrating a habit of making a quick switch from Koran to Hadith when things go badly for you.

If your arguments were valid we wouldn't see all this waffling and flip-flopping.



> Now, the question is, would you rather live in a nation where law is founded in Christian ethics, morals and principles, or would you rather live under sharia?


No, that's not the question at all. Are you getting so desperate that you're making things up? The question was whether or not the Koran commanded killing all unbelievers.

:armata_PDT_12:



> Muhammad made it clear that to deny Islam is aggression, and the consequential violence will be defensive. Don't believe it? Study the hadiths.


That's absolutely false. You are again demonstrating your lack of understanding. The Koran is one thing. The Hadiths are another thing (and quite separate from the actual writings of Muhammad).

I have shown you several times in the above posts that Muhammad called for violence *only when attacked *and that the Hadiths were written by others.



> Time is a wasting, and I have things to do.


Time is a'wasting alright......and you're the one that has been a'wasting my time with your confused denial of fact.

You should simply admit that the Koran (Muhammad) does not call for the killing of all unbelievers.

I will not argue the Hadiths because they are not the writings of Muhammad, but of a large number of religious leaders, some legitimate and some not.

See how truth, facts and logic can work to clear up myths?k

:armata_PDT_12:


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## Denton

Sigh. Frosty, I see from the other thread that you are not a Christian. I am assuming your knowledge of Christianity is much like your knowledge of Islam and the history of Israel; it is all from what others wrote.

Christianity does not condone slavery, but it does tell the slave how he should behave when in such condition. On the other hand, Muslims today practice slavery, and this practice is not relegated to the newly formed I.S. This is condoned

Surah 4:24
_And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise. _

Even married slaves!

Again, Islam is understood by reading the hadiths and the Qur'an. Don't like it? Not my problem. By the way, things do not "go badly" for me. By the way, accusing me of making things up won't inflame me. I've been around the internet for quite some time and people who attempt to get me in a flaming contest have to really go out of their way. You might be retired and have all the time in the world to try, but I am still employed, am married, and have little time for such things. 

Through the Qur'an, I proved that Muhammad said to _fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do._

By the way, you might not know, but the Qur'an is not assembled in chronological order, but in length. The above cited is in the Qur'an, and it is one of the last commands given by Muhammad before his death.

By the way, the hadiths are recognized and accepted first hand observations of Muhammad's words and deeds not by unknown people but by "lieutenants," if you will, of his time. This is why they are worthy of study and emulation. I can understand why you would continue to deny their value.

For those who are still not understanding the difference between Christianity and Islam, this scholar of Islam will help you understand the historical difference. 
LISTEN: An Islam scholar politely unloads on President Obama?s ?terrible deeds in the name of Christ? remarks | TheBlaze.com


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## Frostbite

Denton said:


> Judging by your defense of Islam and in saying they "revere" Jesus, it is probably safe to say you don't know who Jesus is.


First of all, (you are SO confused) I have never "defended" Islam. It's just another religion. It's closely related to Christianity and Judaism and has many of the same problems.

Second, if you don't know that Muslims revere Jesus, you are more confused than I first thought. You see, there's a huge difference between Jesus and Christ.

Get this: Jesus and Christ are two totally different concepts.

Jesus was probably a real person (or persons). "Christ" is a mythical figure invented by the Jew Saul/Paul--who invented a whole new religion ("Christianity") based on Pagan superstitions. Saul/Paul never was a disciple or even met Jesus. He was just a creative thinker (much like the TV preachers of today who speak in tongues and claim to do "miracles" and heal the sick for money).



> The Jesus of the Muhammad's creation isn't the same as the Jesus who came to earth as God incarnate, who lived a perfect life and set the perfect example, who was crucified, suffered and died, and then raised from the dead to be witnessed by many before ascending to Heaven to be our defense attorneys in the face of continued indictments by Satan. As a matter of fact, Jesus was incorporated into Islam to be a minor prophet inferior to Muhammad and stripped of His divinity.


That's because the Muslims, like the Jews and Thomas Jefferson and MANY others around the world, saw through the lies of Saul/Paul and his followers. A lot of Muslims even see Jesus as a MAJOR prophet, but there again some of the problems of superstition are confusing the issue.

The followers of Saul/Paul followed the myth of "Christ" (which was a total fabrication of Saul/Paul that incorporated many existing superstitions of pagan history).

Thomas Jefferson and most of the rest of the world (including Jews and some Muslims) understood the reality of Jesus--who appears to have been a wonderful and gifted itinerant rabbi who had many Jewish followers and incurred the wrath of the Romans--and nothing more.

Jesus was real, but most of the world sees "Christ" as a myth.

Off topic, but you're the one that brought the Christ myth into the discussion.


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## Frostbite

Denton said:


> I am assuming your knowledge of Christianity is much like your knowledge of Islam and the history of Israel; it is all from what others wrote.


You should never assume.

I was a Christian for many years. Man and boy. Raised in it. Been there. Bought the T-Shirt. I know more about it than most Christians--by far.


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## Slippy

Mentally ill dip-shite. He is incapable of recognizing the truth and if by some miracle he recognized the truth, the truth would not matter. His mind is FUBAR.


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## Denton

Frostbite said:


> You should never assume.
> 
> I was a Christian for many years. Man and boy. Raised in it. Been there. Bought the T-Shirt. I know more about it than most Christians--by far.


Sorry, I simply go by evidence of understanding. You "were" a Christian indicates you were dragged to church as a kid, claimed to be a Christian as many Americans do by what they see as default, but never had the relationship or the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Congratulations! You have landed on this humble sinner's prayer list!


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## Frostbite

Denton said:


> Sorry, I simply go by evidence of understanding. You "were" a Christian indicates you were dragged to church as a kid, claimed to be a Christian as many Americans do by what they see as default, but never had the relationship or the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
> 
> Congratulations! You have landed on this humble sinner's prayer list!


Well, most of us were dragged to church as kids......we'd rather have been hunting or fishing. 

But......you still don't get it. I had many adult years as a serious Christian.

I have cast out demons. I have healed the sick. I've said all the same things you've said.

But after many years of study and learning some history......I got better.

:armata_PDT_12:


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## Frostbite

Slippy said:


> Mentally ill dip-shite. He is incapable of recognizing the truth and if by some miracle he recognized the truth, the truth would not matter. His mind is FUBAR.


And still so much better than yours!!!

Amazing!!

:armata_PDT_12:


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## 1skrewsloose

Denton said:


> The point is, only one side can point to their sacred texts to correctly justify massacres and ethnic cleansing. The only one doing this, today, is the adherents to Islam. No one has ever been able to correctly point to a thing said, done by Jesus, while there have been those who kept the language of the Bible to themselves for a time so they could mislead others to fight for them. Furthermore, Israel is not "obviously" conducting any sort of genocide in Israel, Gaza or Judea and Samaria. In fact, I have learned more about you having you said such a thing.
> 
> You have shown nothing more than the fact that you ignore history of when Muhammad was alive and waging war, the hadiths that are eye witness accounts of what he did and said that not only condone military conquest, but also other things such as slavery, wife-beating, lying, stoning adulterers, sex with minors...the list goes on.
> 
> Now, the question is, would you rather live in a nation where law is founded in Christian ethics, morals and principles, or would you rather live under sharia? If you aren't careful, you'll find yourself living under sharia, and it will be forced upon you through force. Don't worry, the violence will be defensive. Muhammad made it clear that to deny Islam is aggression, and the consequential violence will be defensive. Don't believe it? Study the hadiths.
> 
> Anyone else want to waste time with someone who denies hundreds of years of violence, oppression, slavery and death inflicted by those who have accurately followed the examples illustrated by Muhammad, feel free. Time is a wasting, and I have things to do.


A wise man never argues with an idiot, anyone watching will not know who is who.


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## 1skrewsloose

To be serious, the gal looks early 20's, my daughter just started college. Told her I would jump in front of train for her. If it was me, I might consider maxing out the C.C. and go looking to send all involved to Alluh. I think I'm a fairly strong guy, mentally, but would weep like I've never wept before! Is it not the Presidents duty and honor to protect and defend American citizens throughout the world!!?? Maybe I'm way off base on this Presidential duty thing, Don't think Regan, Bush, would have been so callous! Get Desert Storm, Stormin' Norman back and kick some butt. jmho


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## Frostbite

1skrewsloose said:


> To be serious, the gal looks early 20's, my daughter just started college. Told her I would jump in front of train for her. If it was me, I might consider maxing out the C.C. and go looking to send all involved to Alluh. I think I'm a fairly strong guy, mentally, but would weep like I've never wept before! Is it not the Presidents duty and honor to protect and defend American citizens throughout the world!!?? Maybe I'm way off base on this Presidential duty thing, Don't think Regan, Bush, would have been so callous! Get Desert Storm, Stormin' Norman back and kick some butt. jmho


Isn't that just exactly the response that the Media propaganda today has been trying to elicit???

Tearful relatives, pictures of the sweet innocent girl, tugging at the emotions.......trying so hard to inspire HATRED.

Sure. The Media work for the wealthy. The wealthy OWN the media (literally). The wealthy want you angry so you'll support their wars.....so they can get richer off war profits.

They're MANIPULATING you!!!

Is this so hard to see?


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## 1skrewsloose

How is having true and real emotions manipulative!?? What do they do about Teayvon Martin? That's all any media does, if it bleeds, it leads! Nothing new there.


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## 1skrewsloose

I was talking more to the panty waist tree hugger and freinds at the White House!


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## Frostbite

I guess it really IS that hard to see.

:armata_PDT_12:


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## ekim

I guess I'm the only one that is tired of hearing about a young American girl/young women that got caught up in doing good for people that care less about others life. Sorry she is dead but she went over there knowing(or should have known) that her life wasn't worth a plug nickle to most of the people there. She died because she put her life at grave risk and her family wants someone else to make it better because they couldn't / didn't stop her from doing something that was VERY dangerous. She isn't the first and won't be the last American to die for something they believe in, but is it a reason to put more American lives at high risk to get revenge. IMO, no. Now if you want to carpet bomb the middle east then I so go for it, but don't have American soldiers die for those that chose to all but throw their lives away to try and help those that don't want our help and wouldn't walk across the street to help an American. I also don't see where this has squat to do with a prepping forum other than to rile up the troops for nothing. What we should be doing is stopping those from the middle east from coming here, not worrying about Americans that go looking for a cause for martyrdom. She could have stayed here in America and helped people here, at least most people here don't want to kill us all.


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## Slippy

1skrewsloose said:


> How is having true and real emotions manipulative!?? What do they do about Teayvon Martin? That's all any media does, if it bleeds, it leads! Nothing new there.


1skrewsloose,
When FB types something, I find a better use of my time is to look at my "future firearms". He's a troll and a troublemaker. 
One of my wish list firearms below...


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## oddapple

Frostbite said:


> I guess it really IS that hard to see.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


No it isn't people don't give a crap. You're just trying to make it seem like everyone has to be stupid or blind as some lame excuse or something. Islam has one handful of people making a show of fighting Islamic state. What a joke.
People don't give a crap about all the arguments or the time wasted even fooling with them, I think that's the point. Not stupid or blind just fed up and done listening.


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