# How concerned are you about gangs when the SHTF?



## big al

How concerned are you with street gangs etc when the SHTF?

I saw a documentary recently on the Street gang MS13 and they seem well armed and with huge numbers across the country

I am sure the Bloods and Crips have serious numbers too

That said my friend tells me he thinks our biggest threat with WROL will be the biker gangs the 1%ers , they are organized, are not afraid to use violence and many of them have previous military experience

thoughts?


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## PaulS

Gangs will try to take control of pockets of populated areas like they do now. They will be a threat in population dense areas but less so in the outlying areas. By the time you get to "rural" America the gangs will have little to no chance of survival. The reasons:

less "goods" to control
more guns per capita
people who still believe their property belongs to them.


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## Nathan Jefferson

I think the 'current' gangs wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue as the new gangs that form after SHTF.


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## Rigged for Quiet

Nathan Jefferson said:


> I think the 'current' gangs wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue as the new gangs that form after SHTF.


I think this is true for those of us that do not live in close proximity to gang activity. For those in inner city, or very close to inner city, environments will likely be the first casualties as existing gangs go for low hanging fruit that requires little logistics to collect.


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## big al

Rigged for Quiet said:


> I think this is true for those of us that do not live in close proximity to gang activity. For those in inner city, or very close to inner city, environments will likely be the first casualties as existing gangs go for low hanging fruit that requires little logistics to collect.


well said


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## HuntingHawk

Rural areas will change little. A few thugs getting together & stealing. Difference will be citizens taking matters into their own hands.


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## Ripon

The current gang structure will likely focus on inner cities - at least until they run out of resources.


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## csi-tech

Groups will form everywhere. What they decide to do will be the problem. I'm not afraid of them at all. They will quickly move on to an easier target. I have a good selection of shovels, two thousand acres of land and a bible. I need to learn the poetic benediction in Latin though. Don't be the aforementioned low hanging fruit. If a mob shows up, give them incentive to leave.


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## retired guard

They are already in the rural areas(More privacy to make meth). The originals with little chain link steering wheels and low slung vehicles stood out pretty well. Now they make a much greater effort to blend in. Also don't forget Reservation Gangs or the Nortenos who started out amongst immigrant fruit pickers and still do part of their recruiting there. They are not as numerous as the Surenos but they are more selective and tighter knit.


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## BigCheeseStick

I'm afraid anyone who doesn't consider "gangs" a threat, hasn't had _any_ interaction with teenagers lately! Not your kid when their sitting at home. I'm talking about ANY group of them when mom & dad aren't around.

An isolated home / cabin can easily be in more danger than typical suburb houses. Inner city life I think most agree will be a total loss. _KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS!_ You don't have to be best friends. Just have an idea what their mentality is. Take your dog for a walk and stop to say "Hi" to people. Won't be long before you know who you'll be dealing with, and who you can trust.

My thoughts are that the safest home is one where several neighboring homes are close enough to hear a gun shot. If you isolate yourself, what are you going to do against any chimp smart enough to pick you off with a scoped rifle? Any given day someone in your family is going to step outside for one reason or another... BANG! The rest of the family comes running to aid the victim... BANG! BANG! BANG! Game over for everyone in your home. With a little luck (FOR YOU ANYWAY!) this happens to a neighbor first. You hear the shots and are made aware of the threat. How you handle it from there is a whole other thread! This is only ONE situation where your neighbors can be your shield.

My point is no matter where you are there _will_ eventually be _some_ level of "gang activity" sooner or later. If over time your neighbors become aware that your "a nice, neighborhood contentious guy", carry a gun, knife, various other goodies, and know how to defend yourself... As soon as ONE person finds out... People talk! The gangs will pick an easier target before they resort to messing with you. Giving you an opportunity to eliminate any threat before it eliminates you.

Still think there's ANY safety in isolating yourself (rural living)? Watch the movie "The Strangers"...


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## Deebo

I feel that any "world without law", there will be mobs of people, not an assosiated gang, just people "working together" to rob, steal and rape. They will loot pillage and burn..But, like someone stated above, they have plenty of land..
If it gets crazy wherever i am, be it Albequerque or Farmington, I hope to CHRIST my family is safe, for a few weeks or a month, it will be a shooting gallery.


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## Deebo

Yes BCS-interesting handle by the way, I personally would rather be in "the sticks" than the city. One of the reasons you mentioned were "snipers", and yes there will be snipers, but in a city, there is so much more area to conceal, in the country, most people cant walk without sounding like an elephant, so my chances are better. Plus, I would be a hermit if I could, SWISS FAMILY ROBINSON would be awesome to me and my little family..


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## big al

Some friends of mine are concerned with "rogue" police after the SHTF

Even in the film mad max some of the Lord Humungus gang have police uniforms on.


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## pakrat

I have no doubt there’ll be gang threats of various types depending on where you live. I spent half of my adult life living very rural with no neighbors for a couple miles each way down road. We experienced all kinds of lawless behavior (theft, poaching, reckless disregard for people or property, direct intent to do harm, etc) all because Law Enforcement was spread incredibly thin. Gangs won’t have to make it to the rural areas… there’s already people there that will use the opportunity to become animals. I wouldn’t want to live that rural in a SHTF situation… too easy to be singled out, burned out and taken out.

We now live in a small town in a fairly densely populated state, but half the men on our street are ex-military, hunters or fire and rescue types that help each other out when necessary on a regular basis. If gangs become aggressive in our area, they won’t be any worse than the brutal violent backwoods types we’ve encountered. I feel we have a much better chance of covering each other, whether it’s snipers or snatch and run thieves that happen through. We’re well armed, moderately trained, know our local LEO’s and are pretty closely knit. It’s a formula that works for me. I wouldn’t think of going rural again.


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## roy

Gangs, like other predators and scavangers, will seek out weak targets.


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## Prepadoodle

The only gangs I would be afraid of would be National Guard or Army units. If it gets to the point where they are no longer being supplied by the government, they would have little choice but to scrounge for food and supplies like everyone else. The only difference is that they would be equipped with body armor, serious weapons, and good communications gear, and have the skills, tactical training, and mindset to operate as a cohesive unit.


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## roy

What is the difference between the National Guard and The Boy Scouts? The Boy Scouts have adult leadership.


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## Deebo

True on the NG and/or Army, and probably a few "questionable cops", Like on Texas chainsaw Massacre's where he "becomes" sherriff. I cant worry, but I can be concerned, in fact, just ordered MORE .40 ammo a few minutes ago..With propper storage my precious metals investement should be ok until 2014.


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## bigdogbuc

They may be an issue at first, but the only thing that is keeping them alive now is the fact it's illegal for us law abiding citizens to simply shoot them. With that restriction removed, in your scenario, I think it will be open season on anyone who wants to act like a bunch of sh*t heads. 

I give them less than 3 weeks before people have had enough of them and begin the disposal process. Besides, the safest place you can be is in front of them. They can't hit what they're shooting at.


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## BigCheeseStick

big al said:


> Some friends of mine are concerned with "rogue" police after the SHTF
> 
> Even in the film mad max some of the Lord Humungus gang have police uniforms on.


AWESOME point! How easy are people going to fall in the trap if one or two guys show up knocking at your door wearing Police uniforms (real cops or not) saying something like. "Hello, Police. We're here to help. Please open the door so we can so we can make sure everyones ok, and we can offer you supplies and safety information." They then proceed to pop everyone inside in the head and loot the place.


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## PalmettoTree

roy said:


> What is the difference between the National Guard and The Boy Scouts? The Boy Scouts have adult leadership.


That is pure BS. I find the only people that make such statements could never cut it in any branch of the military.


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## Prepadoodle

PalmettoTree, the first time I heard that saying, I was in the 3rd Armored Cav, usually said TO the guard units who came to play with us. It wasn't meant to be a serious thing, and most of them would laugh and agree. 

By the way, there are many times in history that units have gone rogue. I read a book years ago (The Devil's Brigade) that told the true story of a German SS unit. As the 3rd Reich crumbled around them, they stopped getting resupplied and ended up breaking out of Germany as a unit, taking what they needed along the way. They eventually joined the French Foreign Legion and were deployed to French Indochina (Viet Nam) where their brutal "fight terror with terror" tactics earned them the name, "The Devil's Brigade." If you can find a copy, it's a good read.


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## bigdogbuc

big al said:


> Some friends of mine are concerned with "rogue" police after the SHTF
> 
> Even in the film mad max some of the Lord Humungus gang have police uniforms on.


A police uniform does not make them any more or less dangerous than anyone else if SHTF. I mean think about it, if S truly HTF and we had WROL, would you really care if they had a uniform on? I know that I for one would burn my uniforms to the ground. The last thing I would want anyone to know was I was law enforcement.

Yes police have weapons. So do we. There are more civilians with firearms than police. And in many cases, better weapons. Yes they have communications. So do we. If it were some "Coronal Mass Ejection" or "EMP Attack" or something of that nature, comm's are out the window. What next? Smoke signals?

I find it humorous that people look at us as some kind of super-human. I can't tell you how many injuries I have that give me trouble to this day. If I was super-human, I wouldn't have them.

I know some cops that I definitely wouldn't want to fight. I know kids in high school that THOSE guys wouldn't want to fight. A good friend of mine (who is a detective and defensive tactics instructor for his large department) and I had a conversation one day when he was the SRO at the high school where I also work. We picked out a dozen kids that could hand us our asses without even breaking a sweat.

That's why you always see "force in numbers". It's not as easy as you think, to take into custody, someone who is really determined not to be taken into custody. Especially when you're not allowed to injure them (reasonable force). People can talk all day long about how bad ass they are. There is always somebody badder.

I guess my point is if we have a TRUE, SHTF, every man for himself situation, cops as a whole, are the last people you'll need to worry about. Especially the A-Holes; they'll be running for the hills as payback is a real mother trucker.


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## Inor

roy said:


> What is the difference between the National Guard and The Boy Scouts? The Boy Scouts have adult leadership.


No offense intended sir, but I beg to differ. Our Minnesota Red Bulls were deployed in combat in Iraq longer than any unit since WWII. Guys may join the National Guard for all the wrong reasons: I.E. What can *I* get out of it. But when they are called upon, they stand up just like every other military unit - at least the Minnesotans.

It was also the equivalent of a National Guard unit, from Minnesota, that defeated the remnants of the Stonewall Brigade on the 3rd day of Gettysburg. Not that I am proud of the fact that Minnesota fought on the wrong side of that war, but it is still impressive that my people stood against the greatest military until the world had ever known to that point, and won.


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## Moonshinedave

Just a thought, I think if something like described (no law or order, every person for themselves) then a person would have to be careful not to become the very thing they are worried about, a gang member. 
Seems to me people would have to band together, for their protection and survival, also I could see groups of people even with the best intentions, at first, becoming a gang generally only looking out for it's "members". 
Perhaps that would be what we would involve into a country of small, or maybe no so small, groups, or gangs?


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## BigCheeseStick

Deebo said:


> Yes BCS-interesting handle by the way, I personally would rather be in "the sticks" than the city. One of the reasons you mentioned were "snipers", and yes there will be snipers, but in a city, there is so much more area to conceal, in the country, most people cant walk without sounding like an elephant, so my chances are better. Plus, I would be a hermit if I could, SWISS FAMILY ROBINSON would be awesome to me and my little family..


Your right about the "elephant in the woods" for sure. 

IMO, the best thing you can do in all the world if your going to give it a go in a remote location is to make your location "to much trouble to get to". Cut down _a couple_ large trees across your access road. Hopefully you've got a driveway long enough that nobody can see the house / cabin from your improvised road block. This way you've made your location "not worth investigating". Roving troublemakers or "gangs" will simply back out and go to the next driveway / side road looking for a victim.

The second part of this is something you'd want to do RIGHT NOW. Make sure you have a second, completely hidden route to and from the residence for yourself. If your surrounded by woods, make sure you have a hidden way through the trees where you may be running over some small saplings & going through some limbs that are cover, but you KNOW you can get to a main road without having to stop. If you maintain this second route properly only you know its there! VITALLY important!

I believe people who take this approach in rural areas, and those who band together in suburbs are the only ones who stand a chance in any SHTF situation lasting more than a few weeks. These people, and the "gangs" themselves unfortunately.

Things will be just like they are in nature right now. How do animals survive roving packs of wolves? Either in groups for safety, or by making sure the wolves can't get to them! ANY lone animal who thinks it can withstand an attack from a desperate pack = Dead lone animal every time. Pride and overconfidence can make us forget how nature works.


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## Fuzzee

I'm not worried about the current gangs we hear about in the news and word of mouth when the shtf. The only reason their around now is because when it comes down to it, their handled with kid gloves. How long do you think those gangs will last when the concern for lawfully bringing them to justice is not a concern anymore and the choice at hand for those in the community around them is simply whether to expend the ammo on them to put them down. Nobody's going to be in the mood to play around at that point. They'll be a threat and people will deal with them the way they should be dealt with now in my opinion. Put bullets in the them, burn down their hideouts, hunt them like dogs and bury the bodies so they don't smell up the place.

It's the gangs that will form afterwards from ex-military, ex-police and hardened criminals who survived that I'm worried about too. Groups trained, armed, determined, smart and capable, that have decided to prey on what's left of society instead of working with it. They'll be the hard fight. They'll be building strength as they go, expanding weaponry, and learning the best tactics for their numbers and equipment. People in communities damn well better organize defense forces quick or find out just how brutal life can be against real warriors looking to take and control an area.


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## Seneca

I think it depends on what you mean by gangs. If you are referring to the current crop of street gangs. I'd be very concerned early on and for some time afterwards. 

Gangs that would arise after the fact may vary greatly in composition and intentions. Fact is one could reasonably expect to encounter some form of a gang post shtf. Who they may be or what their intentions are is the big question mark. They could be remnants of former street gangs, neighborhood watch groups, or local militias. Any pre shtf organization has the potential to become a post shtf gang. 

I think it would be a good idea to having a protocol for meeting such groups, because you are going to encounter them. A fairly benign group may see you as a threat and shoot you just as dead as a group who's objectives are not so benign.


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## roy

PalmettoTree said:


> That is pure BS. I find the only people that make such statements could never cut it in any branch of the military.


Really, twenty years U.S. Army, retired here including some time in the National Guard. Rangers Lead the Way!


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## BigCheeseStick

Fuzzee said:


> I'm not worried about the current gangs we hear about in the news and word of mouth when the shtf. The only reason their around now is because when it comes down to it, their handled with kid gloves. How long do you think those gangs will last when the concern for lawfully bringing them to justice is not a concern anymore and the choice at hand for those in the community around them is simply whether to expend the ammo on them to put them down. Nobody's going to be in the mood to play around at that point. They'll be a threat and people will deal with them the way they should be dealt with now in my opinion. Put bullets in the them, burn down their hideouts, hunt them like dogs and bury the bodies so they don't smell up the place.
> 
> It's the gangs that will form afterwards from ex-military, ex-police and hardened criminals who survived that I'm worried about too. Groups trained, armed, determined, smart and capable, that have decided to prey on what's left of society instead of working with it. They'll be the hard fight. They'll be building strength as they go, expanding weaponry, and learning the best tactics for their numbers and equipment. People in communities damn well better organize defense forces quick or find out just how brutal life can be against real warriors looking to take and control an area.
> 
> View attachment 2313
> 
> View attachment 2314


I like your point. And I could easily be 100% wrong! But I just can't see this country getting that far down the rabbit hole. There are to many other governing bodies that would step in imo. To many other governments that would LOOOOOVE to jump in place of our current government. The scenario you describe sounds like much of the African continent and parts of South America. Militants and and Rebel groups control small regions only because there's no motive for another country to step in with their military force and take control. No profit to be made.

Another thing to consider is if the "United" States government completely fails to control their sheep (you, me), states will HAPPILY step in with their military / police control. Hell, Texas, South Carolina, and several other states have recently been trying to recede with enough effort that "the bama" finally responded and said any such attempts would be seen as "treason" and all people involved would immediately be squished out of existence. Our governor here in SC responded to that with an (in short) "I'll keep these turds in line sir! You can count on me!"

The United States, cut up, or remaining as a whole, is just to much of a cash cow for ANY governing body to pass up ANY opportunity to take over. We WILL NOT EVER be left to our own devises for very long. There's no profit in letting that happen. And PLENTY of countries with enough military force to control us if they handle things correctly (making us think we're in control when we're not... Ughum... CHINA!).


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## PalmettoTree

If we as a country fall apart I do not see our government being able to function. I do not believe any of our armed forces will take up arms against fellow citizens. Even during the civil war the men fighting on each side looked at the war as a defense against the other. 

Ask any service man or woman and they will tell you they are serving our country. The implied point is they are not serving a government. The chain of command leads to the President but only as far as lawful orders are issued.

When SHTF I expect our armed forces will endeavor to keep us safe from foreign enemies while we reorganize as a civilized society. I would expect the National Guard to serve under state governors to put down marauding gangs. I do not see those members attacking civilians holding and protecting their property.

There are isolated groups of misfit militias loosely organized today. No doubt they will rationalize their right to rape and pillage as they please. But, these are no different than gangs of thugs.

It will be the survivors challenge not to naïvely assume they can trust fellow citizens that stumble their way. This is where understanding guns, ammo and tactics used by skilled survivors will become important. 

Surviving will include building a safe homestead of some sorts some where. One with family cannot live off the land constantly on the move for very long. This is why a bug out location is the top practical, I say again practical, point of discussion.

If you and yours are truly going to survive. You must know who you can trust and if they can trust you. 

This is why I believe the skills of conventional use of assault weapons is pointless. Their only use will be by gangs on the attack. Survivor counter measures are going to be the skilled use of snipers. Regardless of the method of deployment snipers will be the only practical strategy. If you and trusted neighbors plan to attack a rogue group coordinated planned sniper attacks will be the only practical tactic. Having planed sniper locations and in position when strangers show up will be the only sustainable defense.

You better hope the National Guard stays intact if you ever want the person of when SHTF to return to the peaceful enjoyment of your private property.

That's my opinion.


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## pastornator

The tribal system that has allowed for human survival for the whole history of the human race until the past 100 or so years will simply return. Neighboring tribes will war, as always, for available resources and personnel. Some will win, some will loose. Ultimately those with honorable intentions will win because their ethical stance will be preservation of life instead of destruction of life and preservation is the only true long-range sustainable practice. 10,000 + years of human history point out that fact rather clearly. When non-sustainable tribes rise up they are stomped down by nature, nature's god, or people.


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## retired guard

BigCheeseStick said:


> I like your point. And I could easily be 100% wrong! But I just can't see this country getting that far down the rabbit hole. There are to many other governing bodies that would step in imo. To many other governments that would LOOOOOVE to jump in place of our current government. The scenario you describe sounds like much of the African continent and parts of South America. Militants and and Rebel groups control small regions only because there's no motive for another country to step in with their military force and take control. No profit to be made.
> 
> Another thing to consider is if the "United" States government completely fails to control their sheep (you, me), states will HAPPILY step in with their military / police control. Hell, Texas, South Carolina, and several other states have recently been trying to recede with enough effort that "the bama" finally responded and said any such attempts would be seen as "treason" and all people involved would immediately be squished out of existence. Our governor here in SC responded to that with an (in short) "I'll keep these turds in line sir! You can count on me!"
> 
> The United States, cut up, or remaining as a whole, is just to much of a cash cow for ANY governing body to pass up ANY opportunity to take over. We WILL NOT EVER be left to our own devises for very long. There's no profit in letting that happen. And PLENTY of countries with enough military force to control us if they handle things correctly (making us think we're in control when we're not... Ughum... CHINA!).


This is another case where I didn't put a like on
it because I didn't like this truth. But it does seem
true like it or not.


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## csi-tech

It's always a great idea to know your neighbors. Isolation certainly makes you more vulnerable insomuch as there is no one close to provide backup, medical attention, call for help etc. I'm one of those guys in my suburban neighborhood that when anything goes wrong anytime, around the clock, I get woken up. A tree just fell across the road, I have the chainsaw, Young girl's psychotic boyfriend violated his order of protection and is running around the neighborhood with a gun, I am the go to door until the Police get there. I like my odds up on the farm and I can't wait to move there. There will be security cameras, Anatolian Shepherds, Intercoms and perimeter alarms. We will also have protocols in place for every foreseeable situation as well as a fall back infirmary a la the Alamo. I will likely move to an apartment when I'm too feeble to live alone but hopefully that's 30 years away. Until then, I think I will relish in the isolation.


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## Fuzzee

BigCheeseStick said:


> I like your point. And I could easily be 100% wrong! But I just can't see this country getting that far down the rabbit hole. There are to many other governing bodies that would step in imo. To many other governments that would LOOOOOVE to jump in place of our current government. The scenario you describe sounds like much of the African continent and parts of South America. Militants and and Rebel groups control small regions only because there's no motive for another country to step in with their military force and take control. No profit to be made.
> 
> Another thing to consider is if the "United" States government completely fails to control their sheep (you, me), states will HAPPILY step in with their military / police control. Hell, Texas, South Carolina, and several other states have recently been trying to recede with enough effort that "the bama" finally responded and said any such attempts would be seen as "treason" and all people involved would immediately be squished out of existence. Our governor here in SC responded to that with an (in short) "I'll keep these turds in line sir! You can count on me!"
> 
> The United States, cut up, or remaining as a whole, is just to much of a cash cow for ANY governing body to pass up ANY opportunity to take over. We WILL NOT EVER be left to our own devises for very long. There's no profit in letting that happen. And PLENTY of countries with enough military force to control us if they handle things correctly (making us think we're in control when we're not... Ughum... CHINA!).


It depends just how bad it gets. Lots of people have had it up to here with our current governing bodies, with a fair amount of likeliness to tell them to go **** themselves when it's truly bad enough that society as we know it has collapsed. Those governing bodies will likely find themselves under attack early on when people want solutions and they don't have any. Afterall, why support leadership and governance that helped bring about the collapse. Many might find themselves swinging from tree's or shot dead on the ground. Governing bodies only exist as governing bodies, because the people let them. We've got a mass population that far outweighs officials, military and LEO in numbers. If it gets that bad, being in a uniform could be a death sentence as not all people will take kindly to a heavy hand in hard times.


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## Prepadoodle

What I'm wondering is this... 

If the SHTF, our "leaders" have plans to go hide in bunkers, where they will be safe and warm and have plenty of food, water, and anything else they might need. Meanwhile, chaos rules above ground, with riots, starvation, widespread looting, and lawlessness on a scale beyond imagination. Do they really think they can just crawl out a year or two later and get back to "business as usual?"

I mean, really? You hid while we starved and think you have some legitimate right to lead us now?

I hope it never happens, but if it does I'm convinced that our gov will have a rude awakening at the end.


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## BigCheeseStick

I REEEAAALLLLY hope and wish you guys are right about US citizens standing up for themselves. Using Katrina as an example... My confidence in that is _crushed_. US Police and US Military walked all over those citizens taking their supplies and weapons leaving them defenseless against looters. If they complained or resisted, they were simply beaten and arrested.

EXAMPLE: 




Now consider THIS. The bama just gave full written authority to China to move in military troops on the west coast to control US civilians in the case that we don't bow down to our leaders. Two weeks later gave full written authority to Russian troops to move in and take control of us on the east coast!!! Google it. It was on Fox news, CNN, and several other sources. My wife and I watched the CNN report as they filmed a train carrying dozens and dozens of Chinese tanks across California about two weeks ago. :/


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## roy

I Googled it, nothin'. What are you smokin'? Wanna share?


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## BigCheeseStick

https://www.google.com/search?q=chi...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

https://www.google.com/search?q=chi...n+troops+in+us&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

:/

Of course people are going to argue over the sources (Fox news is the top of the list), and "I didn't see that on cnn, so its a lie!". That's cool, I'm sure their right and the bama is TOOOTALLY trustworthy! 

And yeah, the youtube video is all probably fake. Just ask the people who lived through it. Unfortunately a BUNCH of them moved to the state I used to live in after the storm and told me all about it in person... They probably just lied to though.. (sarcasm implied...)

Don't ever forget the first thing said in that video! "No one will be able to be armed. We're going to take all weapons." Then they beat down an old woman for a rusted up old pistol.


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## PalmettoTree

I do not expect we will revert to tribal collections of people. There is no evidence that will take place amount populations that have the civilized experience.. Afghanistan never got past warlord government. Many African cultures also never adopted a civilized structure.

Western Europeans as well as USSR controlled plus remote locations in Russia all could have resorted to tribal survival. They still chose to accept a centralized form of government as oppressive as it might have been.


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## roy

BigCheeseStick said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=chi...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=chi...n+troops+in+us&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
> 
> :/
> 
> Of course people are going to argue over the sources (Fox news is the top of the list), and "I didn't see that on cnn, so its a lie!". That's cool, I'm sure their right and the bama is TOOOTALLY trustworthy!
> 
> And yeah, the youtube video is all probably fake. Just ask the people who lived through it. Unfortunately a BUNCH of them moved to the state I used to live in after the storm and told me all about it in person... They probably just lied to though.. (sarcasm implied...)
> 
> Don't ever forget the first thing said in that video! "No one will be able to be armed. We're going to take all weapons." Then they beat down an old woman for a rusted up old pistol.


Linkie no workie. The old lady is from New Orleans.


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## BigCheeseStick

The video is (as titled) after the Katrina storm. It's in reference to the fact that US citizens will NOT be allowed to resist. Watch it again. There's nothing any of us could have done but get shot or arrested if we'd resisted!

Google: "Chinese troops in California", or "Russian troops in US".

The permissions those two countries have been given are to "assist with crowd control, and help manage US citizens in the event of a disaster."


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## PaulS

So, you would rather live as a slave than die a free man?

What exactly is your freedom worth to you?

I choose to be free - I don't fly, take the ferries or travel by bus because it all of those situation you are unlawfully searched.

I don't use any Google products or services because they support reducing our rights and freedoms.

I am careful about where I shop so I don't do business with any group that is out to make me a servant of the government.

I am not a member of AARP because they pay to have our rights restricted. I am a member of AMAC because they support our rights.

I joined the NRA, SAF, and other organizations that fight for our rights.

I write letters - non-stop - to my representatives to make them aware that I am active in the protection of my rights.

I'll be wearing blaze orange on August 14th to support our fellow hunters and shooting sportsmen in New South Wales as they fight for their rights.

I am a licensed concealed carry person and I do it daily. When I am not allowed to carry concealed I carry openly.



It is not enough to complain or ignore what is going on - get involved and do something for yourself. Make a difference.


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## BigCheeseStick

Left out one of the most important things your doing though. 

"I try to make as many others as possible aware of the tyranny that's going on around them."

Thumbs up.


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## Rigged for Quiet

BigCheeseStick said:


> The video is (as titled) after the Katrina storm. It's in reference to the fact that US citizens will NOT be allowed to resist. Watch it again. There's nothing any of us could have done but get shot or arrested if we'd resisted!
> 
> Google: "Chinese troops in California", or "Russian troops in US".
> 
> The permissions those two countries have been given are to "assist with crowd control, and help manage US citizens in the event of a disaster."


No Chinese troops, those were Japanese troops practicing amphibious invasions at pendleton, which pissed off the Chinese. The Russian/FEMA association is an ongoing exchange of experts during disaster relief for training on response. We;re talking a handful of individuals.

Neither the President nor DHS has the authority to sign an "agreement" to allow foreign troops to occupy U.S. soil.

As for the Katrina gun confiscations, it remains a blight on our constitutional rights.


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## Smitty901

Concerned very worried no We can deal with them.


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## big al

Smitty901 said:


> Concerned very worried no We can deal with them.


which gangs? 1%ers? bloods and crips? all of them?


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## Smitty901

big al said:


> which gangs? 1%ers? bloods and crips? all of them?


I'm not picking they do not worry us.


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## Carp614

Strong communities (like mine) negate the power of armed gangs. We will stand together and protect each other's families. 

Gangs are populated by desperate, selfish, cowards.


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## rice paddy daddy

There's a reason my wife and I live on a dead end dirt road 6 miles outside a one stoplight town of 2,000.

Nope, I'm not worried about gangs at all.


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## 6811

big al said:


> How concerned are you with street gangs etc when the SHTF?
> 
> I saw a documentary recently on the Street gang MS13 and they seem well armed and with huge numbers across the country
> 
> I am sure the Bloods and Crips have serious numbers too
> 
> That said my friend tells me he thinks our biggest threat with WROL will be the biker gangs the 1%ers , they are organized, are not afraid to use violence and many of them have previous military experience
> 
> thoughts?


when those type gangs run out of supplies their members will be roaming around robbing and taking whatever they want. rape and murder will be on the list of their activities as well. Also, unorganized or newly organized groups such as neighborhood groups can do the same thing. it is really up to the individual, if he/she no longer feels that he/she will be held accountable for his/her actions, then the only thing that would prevent him/her from doing bad things is his/her concience.


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## rice paddy daddy

mhans827 said:


> ......... it is really up to the individual, if he/she no longer feels that he/she will be held accountable for his/her actions, then the only thing that would prevent him/her from doing bad things is his/her concience.


That, and the barrel of a gun.


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## Lucky Jim

big al said:


> How concerned are you with street gangs etc when the SHTF?....


At least they'll probably go wild in their own districts at first which will give us a breathing space to bug out or whatever, but don't forget to keep an eye on your neighbours too because they're liable to turn into violent crazed subhumans at the drop of a hat-

TWILIGHT ZONE episode 'THE SHELTER'- 
1- A happy neighbourhood birthday party, what could possibly go wrong?
2- Radio announcer- "Warning! Incoming enemy missiles! Get in your shelters!"
3- "Lemme in, I'm your mate!"...."Sorry, no room except for my own family!"
4- "None of us have got a shelter, let's bust into his!"









5- Radio announcer-"False alarm"
6- "Get out of my house!"


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## big al

Lucky Jim said:


> At least they'll probably go wild in their own districts at first which will give us a breathing space to bug out or whatever, but don't forget to keep an eye on your neighbours too because they're liable to turn into violent crazed subhumans at the drop of a hat-
> 
> TWILIGHT ZONE episode 'THE SHELTER'-
> 1- A happy neighbourhood birthday party, what could possibly go wrong?
> 2- Radio announcer- "Warning! Incoming enemy missiles! Get in your shelters!"
> 3- "Lemme in, I'm your mate!"...."Sorry, no room except for my own family!"
> 4- "None of us have got a shelter, let's bust into his!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5- Radio announcer-"False alarm"
> 6- "Get out of my house!"


one of my all time favorite episodes of the Twilight Zone! :mrgreen:


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## 9UC

big al said:


> How concerned are you with street gangs etc when the SHTF?.....


Short answer, Yes!


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## PaulS

That episode of Twilight Zone happened to me and my family when I was about 8 years old. My dad had built a shelter and there was a malfunction of the warning sirens. Our neighbors did break down the door........ it was one of the things that stuck in my mind - it's why I am against "off-grid" power supplies - just another neon sign that says "I have something worth taking". Good Christian people do very bad things sometimes.


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## Nathan Jefferson

Lucky Jim said:


> At least they'll probably go wild in their own districts at first which will give us a breathing space to bug out or whatever, but don't forget to keep an eye on your neighbours too because they're liable to turn into violent crazed subhumans at the drop of a hat-
> 
> TWILIGHT ZONE episode 'THE SHELTER'-
> 1- A happy neighbourhood birthday party, what could possibly go wrong?
> 2- Radio announcer- "Warning! Incoming enemy missiles! Get in your shelters!"
> 3- "Lemme in, I'm your mate!"...."Sorry, no room except for my own family!"
> 4- "None of us have got a shelter, let's bust into his!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5- Radio announcer-"False alarm"
> 6- "Get out of my house!"


+1 great episode!

And to clarify my previous response; I will be very afraid of gangs/groups if tshtf, but not so much from your current criminal gangs. I believe you could quickly see the forming of new gangs and groups who will loot and pillage - a lot of these could be people who you would never anticipate being in a gang during normal times.


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## PalmettoTree

PaulS said:


> That episode of Twilight Zone happened to me and my family when I was about 8 years old. My dad had built a shelter and there was a malfunction of the warning sirens. Our neighbors did break down the door........ it was one of the things that stuck in my mind - it's why I am against "off-grid" power supplies - just another neon sign that says "I have something worth taking". Good Christian people do very bad things sometimes.


My father would have shot them neighbor or not.

It is good it is stuck in your mind. You and your family are safer because of that mindset. That's my opinion.


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## PaulS

It wasn't until after that event that my dad got his first gun - a surplus .45 ACP. Then he got a surplus 30-06 - that I now own.


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## 9UC

PaulS said:


> It wasn't until after that event that my dad got his first gun - a surplus .45 ACP. Then he got a surplus 30-06 - that I now own.


Sounds like you don't want history to repeat itself.


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## PaulS

I won't allow that to happen to my family. Even if it is a mistake or error in the system. I will have no problem defending my property and our lives.
I am in the process of building a couple of out buildings - a garage and a shop and the neighbors have told me that they are the strongest buildings around and that if anything happens they will come to my place. I just told them to bring plenty of food and water. The shop will not have any running vehicles in it but it will have all my tools and equipment and a solid door that will be internally braced. There are no windows but plenty of lights and only one "man" door, a metal fire door with keyed locks on both sides. the walls have R20 insulation and the ceiling has R60. The foundation and floor is insulated with 2" solid foam so it will be comfortable in any weather without doing much to it.

I have enough land to see anyone coming and the property is posted so I don't expect anything more than curiosity from the neighbors.


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## big al

PaulS said:


> I won't allow that to happen to my family. Even if it is a mistake or error in the system. I will have no problem defending my property and our lives.
> I am in the process of building a couple of out buildings - a garage and a shop and the neighbors have told me that they are the strongest buildings around and that if anything happens they will come to my place. I just told them to bring plenty of food and water. The shop will not have any running vehicles in it but it will have all my tools and equipment and a solid door that will be internally braced. There are no windows but plenty of lights and only one "man" door, a metal fire door with keyed locks on both sides. the walls have R20 insulation and the ceiling has R60. The foundation and floor is insulated with 2" solid foam so it will be comfortable in any weather without doing much to it.
> 
> I have enough land to see anyone coming and the property is posted so I don't expect anything more than curiosity from the neighbors.


nice sounds like you are good to go!


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## Montana Rancher

Wow, 

I mean really WOW, a lot of conflicting views.

But not really, each person bases their SHTF stategy on their own circumstance, I could not imagine a subdivision type defense as I am rural, and a metro person only thinks of his own set of circumstances.

My point is there are a lot of valid plans out there based upon specific circumstances that don't make sense to every person. One person thinks snipers are the only way to go, the next is a community setup.

Here is my plan for SHTF and gangs.

Day one, block both the accesses to my area and get together with neighbors and discuss a strategy.

For the first 8 weeks I will stay on my property, behind sandbags, with full 24 hour watches.

Anyone that comes onto my property after dark is kill on sight, no exceptions.

Anyone in the day time can approach and will be dealt with on a case by case rationale. I have fresh water flowing through my property year round, I'm glad to share that but not at night.

But the point is we stay in a bunkered down posture for the first 8 weeks where in a real SHTF the population will be reduced by 50% around here and probably 90% in a big city.

Now it is time to stick your head up and start organizing communities for survival, any gangs that survive the first 8 weeks of attrition and disease will be known by all and a proper defense or offense against those can be dealt with.

So I am using a LOT of the above strategies, 
1. Deny access
2. Neighborhood cooperation
3. Defend in Force
4. Self sufficientcy

In a real SHTF people have no clue as to the die off from looting, dehydration, disease and hunger. Give it a few weeks and most of your problems go away.


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## Smitty901

We already live in a world where Gangs control parts of major cities. They import drugs at will and kill at will.
LEO is both unable and unwilling to stop it.
This will only get worst SHTF.. LE will not be lined up long on the streets protecting you they will have headed home to care for their own.


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## ajk1941

Most today are constrained by laws that will cause the defender of home and property to lose almost everything after protecting your self in civil suits filed by the families of the perpetrators. There will be no constraints after the SHTF! People in general will be more apt to take what ever steps are necessary for self protection.


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## retired guard

As mentioned by several posters the civil penalties for defending oneself will not exist in an extreme situation TEOTWAWKI however how do your actions change if it's a temporary break down such as hurricane blizzard etc. Also in TEOTWAWKI there wouldn't be civil suits but when would you be willing to start a feud, that could go on for generations?


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## Piratesailor

The only "gang" I'm worried about is the federal government.


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## 6811

Piratesailor said:


> The only "gang" I'm worried about is the federal government.


you are correct.... this is "the Gang" that will make it worst for all of us. they will screw things up and get people hurt. when these thugs roam and control the streets, things are going to get bad before it gets better


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## Ripon

My perception is that police will ban together and create their own gang. Initially that gang will serve only to defend itself and maybe neighbors. The street gangs that exist here today (2 Hispanic and one African American by nature) will likely avoid the police gang since they will live off their neighborhoods for a few weeks. During that time a third entity here will rise. Two very large churches in this community will formulate organized militias. My only question is will they merge with the police gangs and each other. If they do the street gangs don't stand a chance, but if they remain separate it will be a very ugly battle for neighborhoods.



Smitty901 said:


> We already live in a world where Gangs control parts of major cities. They import drugs at will and kill at will.
> LEO is both unable and unwilling to stop it.
> This will only get worst SHTF.. LE will not be lined up long on the streets protecting you they will have headed home to care for their own.


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## Smitty901

Have you ever noticed that LE and so called national Guard in civil defense do not protect the average citizen they are deployed to protect government assets and those that support the current agenda.
That is all they have been trained to do. They see the people on the street as the enemy .


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## Ripon

When on duty yes. In the case of "STHF" and "EOTWAWKI" these people will be on their own and not following orders. They will be protecting themselves, their families and extended families not the government. When society breaks down and their ranks have fallen they will likely all bolt for their homes and protect themselves/families. They may pack together for that purpose but I don't see them lining up for street duty to protect the govt.



Smitty901 said:


> Have you ever noticed that LE and so called national Guard in civil defense do not protect the average citizen they are deployed to protect government assets and those that support the current agenda.
> That is all they have been trained to do. They see the people on the street as the enemy .


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## Smitty901

Recently Milwaukee had 21 shootings in a short span of time. August 2 to August 7. Not uncommon for shootings in Milwaukee.
Most are gang on each other type shootings. Of that 7 have died. The general public gets involved when their shots go wild.
What does this mean to us?
We have a good chance of fighting them off we hit what we shot at. Seriously if this is pre- SHTF what will it be like post SHTF.
Subject we need to think about and honestly talk about.


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## Meangreen

Gangs are not the threat that they are made out to be in the media. When the SHTF everyone will have the gang mentality. When I deal with gang bangers and ask them what their doing they respond, "Just working for the neighborhood." In their eyes they are protecting the neighborhood from outside threats. Not to say their not criminals but most people who get jacked by gang bangers who are not gang bangers, is people in places where they shouldn't be buying narcotics.


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## pastornator

I work on the north side of Milwaukee where much if the violence occurs. And though not racist myself, I cannot say the same for many of the people on that side of the city and I'm not their flavor, so I'm a marked man. I've already picked up fired handgun bullets from the parking lot (a school) and there have been 6 murders within 6 blocks of my work address this year so far. It is getting worse not better. 

One if my fears us a bug out event... Anyway, I'm hoping I never have to fight but sooner or later it will be inevitable. I will probably loose because by law I cannot carry an equalizer. But, it won't be easy to defeat me and I will try to win, but far better due to the nature of any potential conflict would be to play the ninja and simply disappear quickly. It would be very difficult to go against men who do that often for the sport of it, especially when some of them are built like linebackers with friends.


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## BigCheeseStick

NICE setup! Consider a small quite generator to be installed in a small dog house on the roof. Even if it's just a backup for a larger generator. Keeps noise down so people aren't drawn to it, even if they are.. IT'S ON THE ROOF! Can't steal it! May consider a few industrial sky lights to. Their made of a STRONG semi transparent lexan. Some kind of way to get on the roof is pretty important for security anyway. (Industrial building steel trap door).

We had a BAD ice storm in michigan several years ago and the whole area was without power for a week. Half the generators in the town were stolen at one point or another! Especially if they were running anytime at night. The noise was like a magnet for the thieves. One of my neighbors said he had two locks and a heavy chain on his when it disappeared one night. Cops caught the guy with his wife and teenage kid in a pickup with my neighbors and two other generators driving around the neighborhood. They were from a town 20 minutes away.


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## BigCheeseStick

PaulS said:


> I won't allow that to happen to my family. Even if it is a mistake or error in the system. I will have no problem defending my property and our lives.
> I am in the process of building a couple of out buildings - a garage and a shop and the neighbors have told me that they are the strongest buildings around and that if anything happens they will come to my place. I just told them to bring plenty of food and water. The shop will not have any running vehicles in it but it will have all my tools and equipment and a solid door that will be internally braced. There are no windows but plenty of lights and only one "man" door, a metal fire door with keyed locks on both sides. the walls have R20 insulation and the ceiling has R60. The foundation and floor is insulated with 2" solid foam so it will be comfortable in any weather without doing much to it.
> 
> I have enough land to see anyone coming and the property is posted so I don't expect anything more than curiosity from the neighbors.


NICE setup! Consider a small quite generator to be installed in a small dog house on the roof. Even if it's just a backup for a larger generator. Keeps noise down so people aren't drawn to it, even if they are.. IT'S ON THE ROOF! Can't steal it! May consider a few industrial sky lights to. Their made of a STRONG semi transparent lexan. Some way to get on the roof from inside is pretty important for security anyway. (Industrial building steel trap door).

We had a BAD ice storm in michigan several years ago and the whole area was without power for a week. Half the generators in the town were stolen at one point or another! Especially if they were running anytime at night. The noise was like a magnet for the thieves. One of my neighbors said he had two locks and a heavy chain on his when it disappeared one night. Cops caught the guy with his wife and teenage kid in a pickup with my neighbors and two other generators driving around the neighborhood. They were from a town 20 minutes away.


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## pfwag

BigCheeseStick said:


> NICE setup! Consider a small quite generator to be installed in a small dog house on the roof. Even if it's just a backup for a larger generator. Keeps noise down so people aren't drawn to it, even if they are.. IT'S ON THE ROOF! Can't steal it! May consider a few industrial sky lights to. Their made of a STRONG semi transparent lexan. Some way to get on the roof from inside is pretty important for security anyway. (Industrial building steel trap door).
> 
> We had a BAD ice storm in michigan several years ago and the whole area was without power for a week. Half the generators in the town were stolen at one point or another! Especially if they were running anytime at night. The noise was like a magnet for the thieves. One of my neighbors said he had two locks and a heavy chain on his when it disappeared one night. Cops caught the guy with his wife and teenage kid in a pickup with my neighbors and two other generators driving around the neighborhood. They were from a town 20 minutes away.


As you pointed out, "quiet" is a relative term. When the power and most cars go kaput, a "quiet generator" can be heard for a long ways away. It and any cooking are going to send out a big message that you have power and food when most don't. In a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation, preppers need to go stealthy until the desperate and gangs die off. However, the zombies will be eating the dead and dying.


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## Tundra Dweller

It wont take long for the actual gangs (not the gov ones) to be out of ammo.. Good friend of mine is a RCMP up here. After raiding a few of the gang members places he was amazed the lack of ammo for their guns. Now this will vary.. but the less then 500 he told me gave me hope those gangs would be outta ammo quickly and feel powerless with out their guns.


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## BigCheeseStick

TWO of the things to note here. Teens charged after allegedly killing Australian student in Oklahoma for the 'fun of it' | Fox News

"This isn't supposed to happen in this community!" How many of you were thinking and even said the same thing about where you live?

Kid was killed with a .22 revolver. Some have said "Not a legitimate weapon". Yet....

"Many emergency room doctors will tell you that a .22 caliber gunshot is one of the worst to come in, because, quite often, a .22 LR will ricochet inside the body causing many small, hard-to-find wound channels. The surgeries for these wounds can take hours and as often as not, the victims bleed out and die."


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## roy

This was not a hate crime.


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## big al

roy said:


> This was not a hate crime.


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## 71Chevrolet

big al said:


> How concerned are you with street gangs etc when the SHTF?
> 
> I saw a documentary recently on the Street gang MS13 and they seem well armed and with huge numbers across the country
> 
> I am sure the Bloods and Crips have serious numbers too
> 
> That said my friend tells me he thinks our biggest threat with WROL will be the biker gangs the 1%ers , they are organized, are not afraid to use violence and many of them have previous military experience
> 
> thoughts?


Well, took me 20 minutes to read thru this thread. To the original question, I am not concerned with gangs were I'm at. If things ever really get bad ill be up in the hills on "the property." Unless ms13 and bloods 'n crips trade in their lowriders for 4wheel drives and the 1%ers trade their Harley's for dirtbikes, we'll be a ok!


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## ApexPredator

This is actually my chief concern if something like this happened in my area. I assume that others would act/think as I do because I generally follow the golden rule.


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## Old Man

For the rural area in Mississippi I live in, the gangs I will worry about will be a group of hungry people show up in numbers to take what they can. They more than likely didn't know each before the SHTF. That will be the ones to watch out for where I live.


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## Tundra Dweller

Old Man said:


> For the rural area in Mississippi I live in, the gangs I will worry about will be a group of hungry people show up in numbers to take what they can. They more than likely didn't know each before the SHTF. That will be the ones to watch out for where I live.


Thats about all that will show up here if they make it this far from the city... I'm sure if they get to pushy between the city and here they will get thinned out..


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## BeefBallsBerry

Gangs biggest down fall when s.h.t.f will be their over confidence. Hanging out on the street in well lit areas because they think they will own the area and will be over confident. If you need to move around them just go on the outskirts of a city or if you need to reclaim your take...well good luck


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## Smitty901

If recent events, mindless kills based on race do not result in a wake up call, what will.
Just a peek into what Could come.
DHS employees calling for an all out race war on whites.
This should concern people of all skin tones.


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## Rigged for Quiet

No worries Smitty, they put that guy on paid administrative leave. I'm sure this stern and earnest message has led to a change of heart for this indivisual and he has seen the error of his ways.


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## BigTex

Street gangs are something that I'm not too concerned about, I can't possibly imagine a group of guys from MS13 trying to make it out in a rural setting. They couldn't survive out there, and they sure as hell wouldn't drive hours out of city limits for resources that might not even be there. They'd be too busy trying to hold their pants up and figuring out how to hold their pistols right side up to shoot straight anyway.


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