# Solar max 5300+



## scottlwn

looking for a backup solar power solution for my home and came across the solar max 5300+ solution. Wondering if anyone has any experience or advice on this product as a backup power so,Union for my home..thx


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## spork

Why don't you introduce yourself in our intro thread. As for your solar questions...without more information, no one will be able to help you. What is your planned use? Where do you plan on lugging this thing around to? What are your power wants/needs?


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## 8301

Just looked up a solar max 5300. 
They say it has a Xantrax charge controller but the picture shows a TriStar controller.
The 5300 implies that it has 5300 watts worth of solar panels, especially by their claim of it only costing $1.09/watt. But actually it only has 720 watts worth of solar panels with 5300 watts worth of off brand inverters... so it's really $8.32/watt cost. Over double the price per watt of what I paid for the parts of my grid tied with battery backup solar system.

It's your money but I'd suggest you look for something else. 

If you give me some idea of what you're looking to do with it and a budget I can suggest a set of parts.


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## scottlwn

Guys..thanks for the replies. These use case is a backup power source in case the grid goes down. Ideally to power furnace, ac, fridge and a few other appliances. Live in a metropolitan area... If power is out for a week or two...would like to be able to stay at home.


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## 8301

My 1st system, about 2/3 the size of the one you posted on 1st post, cost about $1600 today to get all the parts and can run your refrigerator easily.


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## quinnbrian

FoolAmI said:


> View attachment 14048
> View attachment 14049
> 
> 
> My 1st system, about 2/3 the size of the one you posted on 1st post, cost about $1600 today to get all the parts and can run your refrigerator easily.


This guy has help me out a lot on this board, along with some others, great forum , with people that have been there, and done that. Maybe look at building your own system..its not that hard  ...with a little help....and you'll get all the help you need, right here on this board!! It will probably cost you less(or the same with better quality produces). But you'll learn so much...so if something happens to you system, you might be able to trouble shot your own system. And if S*it ever does hit the fan..you'll be even better equipped to help your family and friends.
Happy New Years
Cheers
Brian


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## 8301

quinnbrian said:


> It will probably cost you less(or the same with better quality produces). But you'll learn so much...so if something happens to you system, you might be able to trouble shot your own system. And if S*it ever does hit the fan..you'll be even better equipped to help your family and friends.


That's why I designed and built my own solar systems (have 2 now). Saves money and if something breaks I've got a much better idea about how it works and how to repair it although I've never had anything break, even after 2 serious lightening strikes that fried several neighbors electronics. One lightening strike was in my front yard but I have large surge suppressors on the solar system. The local solar installer charges $850/day, I built my system on weekends saving the cash. Quality solar equipment is very durable and comes with warranties between 5 and 25 years.


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## chocks141

I can tell you from experience, buying cheap and using the "trail & terror" method is not worth it. By the time I figured out the cheaper stuff didn't work out, I could have bought a complete Outback system with the money I had spent.

My advice is to buy quality from the start with plenty of expansion room.


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## I'd_last_a_day

FoolAmI said:


> View attachment 14048
> View attachment 14049
> 
> 
> My 1st system, about 2/3 the size of the one you posted on 1st post, cost about $1600 today to get all the parts and can run your refrigerator easily.


What inverter, batteries, and panels do you buy?


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## Maine-Marine

solar panels 
the 100 watt panels are a good deal
Zebra Energy

controller
https://www.google.com/?trackid=sp-006#q=morningstar+10+12v&tbm=shop

10 amp 12 volt


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## 8301

I'd_last_a_day said:


> What inverter, batteries, and panels do you buy?


Depends on your budget and long term realistic goals. $69 to $6900 or even higher.


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## Fl grandma

Hello Folks, I have been eyeing the Solar Max 5300 because it's supposed to power up most of your appliances. First of all, as a female, and not electrically inclined, I'm at a loss ok, the description of this system says 675 watts of Solar panels, 60 amp solar charge controller...5300 watts, and well the rest of the description is rather lengthy but my husband is an electronic technician, and it sounded good. Now since you have been there and done that, can you take a look at this equipment again, you posted back in 11/2014, & it's now 12/2016, they've changed their name, and is it possible that they've made improvements? if not, than is something out there better for less. I'd like to move on this as it's our next purchase. Also next purchase is a NOAA weather radio, but really want a short/long wave radio.


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## Targetshooter

Does anyone use the intro section anymore ? Just takes a few min. to tell a little about your self .


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## 8301

The SolarMax 5300 which isn't even available now did cost $5900, had 720 watts worth of panels, and a cheap 3000 modified sine wave inverter. Not sure about it's batteries.

It's a slow night so just for kicks I'm going to roughly design a better system for less money. Goals are to be able to run a modern house refrigerator, power 200 watts in lighting, radios, rechargeable batteries ect for 5 hrs a day. It must also be able to run your dishwasher and clothes washer, microwave, and toaster oven but only 1 at a time for at least 2 hrs per sunny day. 120v output only so no well pumps (conceder the Magnum inverter upgrade listed below). No super cheap parts like Aimes inverters or inefficient PPM controllers. Instead the parts must be at least medium quality able to work constantly for 3+ years (most parts should last 8 + years) and have 2 days worth of energy storage at 3.25kwh /day without discharging the batteries below 50% SOC (state of charge) for longer battery life. Balanced panel to battery to inverter strings for better system performance. Shipping not included in pricing.

panels... four Qcell 340 watt 47 VOC. Decent quality 20 year panel. 1360 watts total output $1000 4 panels will charge the batteries listed below at a C/10 rate so a perfect match. Q-Cell 325W Poly Module

charge controller... Midnight Solar 150 MPPT Classic, Top quality MPPT controller for maximizing solar harvest. At the 24v this system is going to run at this controller can handle 6 panels like the ones listed above so you can add panels if you want. $563 You could save $100 and get the lite version but this controller is much more programmable to extend battery life. https://www.solar-electric.com/mnclassic.html

Inverter... Samlex PST-2000 24v input This is the weakest link as far as quality goes in this system but the price is right, it can do the job, and the company has a good reputation. $647. https://www.solar-electric.com/samlex-pure-sine-wave-inverter-pst-2000-24.html Personally I'd prefer the Magnum MS 4024 with 120/240v but it costs $1400 more.

Batteries... Four Crown 395 amp/hr 6v batteries wired in series for a 24v battery bank. I purchased these batteries last year with water miser caps and free delivery from the local Crown distributor for $318 each. $1272

Well built wood panel rack that should last 10-15 years $150 for the materials

breaker combiner box for panels that mounts on the panel rack $122 You'd be wiring the panels in two strings of 2 panels per string and combining the wires in this combiner box It has the fuse holders and room for 2 more strings of panels. Grab some 15 amp fuses too. https://www.solar-electric.com/outback-power-ics-fwpv4-fh600-combiner-box.html

breaker/disconnect box allows you to connect and disconnect the different components safely and mounts close to the battery box, inverter, and charge controller. comes with the 125 amp battery to inverter breaker $122 https://www.solar-electric.com/midcdipocepl.html

two 60 amp DC breakers for power coming in from panels to charge controller and from charge controller to the battery bank $24 https://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-mnepv-60-amps-circuit-breaker.html A larger breaker will be needed between the controller and the battery bank if you use more than 4 solar panels.

6 ga THHN wire for combiner box (solar panels) to breaker disconnect box and then to controller 20' run 50' needed $60 
6 ga grounding wire 20' $20
8' ground rod $20
Six 2 ga 11' battery wires $80
0/2 ga battery neg to inverter neg wire 8' long $50
0/2 ga battery pos to breaker in breaker box and then one from breaker to inverter 5' long each $ 80 for both
battery box (home depot small garden box) $70
misc $200

Total $4358 for almost twice as much power and more reliability than the Solar Max 5300 system. Can it be built cheaper? defiantly, just some price shopping would probably save you $200. But beyond that cutting out things like a correct DC breaker box or using a PMW controller will affect power harvest, durability and safety.

If I was hell bent on spending the $5900 the Solar Max cost I would upgrade to the Magnum inverter. @ Fl grandma


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## Fl grandma

Hi Target shooter, I'm sorry, I think this forum is a bit confusing for the first time user like myself, and perhaps could be the reason others are having the same problem. I registered and immediately signed on but didn't see your introductions...another reason some people may feel hesitant to respond is due to the nature of site... #1 you never know who any of these people that come on here can be...so tonight I gave a very short description of self. BTW thank you for this site where we can come and ask questions. On Facebook, are you "The Preppers Forum"? looks like it...I have a question, if I want to either provide an email, or how does that email sign on the bag work. Is it my email I put there? So that person can email me? or do I click that and my message goes to the person I'm responding to? Like I said, I'm new here...so sorry for the Q. God bless


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## I'd_last_a_day

John Galt said:


> The SolarMax 5300 which isn't even available now did cost $5900...It's a slow night so just for kicks I'm going to roughly design a better system for less money...
> 
> ...Total $4358 for almost twice as much power and more reliability than the Solar Max 5300 system. *Can it be built cheaper?*... defiantly, just some price shopping would probably save you $200. But beyond that cutting out things like a correct DC breaker box or using a PMW controller will affect power harvest, durability and safety.


What an awesome post thanks for laying it out in detail!! Ok so for $4358 here we have a middle of the line quality setup that avoids going too cheap which would degrade performance. Question, what if you wanted to go in the opposite direction and put more money into it to have an even better lay out? I was wondering, in what order of importance would you improve upon it on a gradual monetary basis? For instance "If I had an additional $500 the FIRST thing I would improve is THIS...Now if I had an additional $1,000 I would change this...If I had an additional $2,000 I would...ect, etc." Thanks a lot, I'm gonna save this thread!!


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## 8301

First bump would be the better Magnum inverter as listed above. Next would be two more panels with the required larger breaker also as listed above. After that instead of a 24v system to maximize durability and cost efficiency you would need to scrap much of what is listed above and go with a 48v inverter and battery bank. The charge controller can handle up to 10 panels if feeding a 48v battery bank


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## I'd_last_a_day

John Galt said:


> First bump would be the better Magnum inverter as listed above. Next would be two more panels with the required larger breaker also as listed above.


Awesome, very easy upgrades!!


John Galt said:


> After that instead of a 24v system to maximize durability and cost efficiency *you would need to scrap much of what is listed above* and go with a 48v inverter and battery bank. The charge controller can handle up to 10 panels if feeding a 48v battery bank


Edit...John I looked up the Magnum inverter that you recommended as the upgrade, next thing I knew I was pulled into these all inclusive units on the site that I found the Magnum inverter on. Now I'd normally feel like I was thread stealing here but we not only declared the Solar Max 5300 as discontinued but also as not being worth it. Anyway, if you get a chance can you let me know if this all inclusive system is reasonably priced and/or good quality? Since I was throwing out $10,000 as a target I'll list this $9,285 unit...

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/18928...3.42-kw-12-panel-suniva-off-grid-solar-system


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## 8301

I'd_last_a_day said:


> Edit...John I looked up the Magnum inverter that you recommended as the upgrade, next thing I knew I was pulled into these all inclusive units on the site that I found the Magnum inverter on. Now I'd normally feel like I was thread stealing here but we not only declared the Solar Max 5300 as discontinued but also as not being worth it. Anyway, if you get a chance can you let me know if this all inclusive system is reasonably priced and/or good quality? Since I was throwing out $10,000 as a target I'll list this $9,285 unit...
> The Homestead 3.42 kW 12-Panel Suniva Off-Grid Solar System - Wholesale Solar


You're moving from a emergency system that can power a few things like the chest freezer in your garage using extension cords and can provide some emergency power to a system large enough that it needs to be hardwired into your home. Big difference.

First let me say I really like Wholesale Solar and they often have the best prices. now the bad.
That setup is the majority of the pieces you will need for a off grid (never to sell back to the grid) smaller super energy efficient home but depending on what you are looking for it is missing some expensive pieces.
Add $3000 for batteries and another $300 for heavy 4/0 gauge battery cables.
The panel racks are designed for roof mounting and assume you've got a shade free roof area that is generally South facing. You will need the rail to roof mounts (maybe $300). The type of mount will depend on what type of roof you have.
Depending on the county you live in there are electrical codes that apply if you hard wire the power into your home. Even if the inverter has dedicated circuits that never connect to the grid. If there is ever a fire your home insurance may not pay if you're not up to code and you will at the minimum need labeling, outside disconnects ect to meet NEC 2011. If your county is using NRC 2014 you also need some wire guttering to keep AC and DC circuits separate and a rapid shutdown system for the firemen.
Add another $450 for 6 ga and 4 ga wire and a few extra fuses at $25 each just for safety.
Add a new breaker box for the hardwired home circuits with breakers ($300 + ) and then pull the desired circuit wires from your old breaker box to the new box. That is the only part where I paid a professional. I paid a certified electrician a bunch of money ($900 for 21 circuits) (two guys 9 hrs) so I could always say it was professionally wired even though I did 90% of the wiring and the electrician was a bit scared because he didn't understand a solar system with 8000 amp potential DC current. In my county there was no need to have a building permit or electrical inspector according to the local solar guy so that saved me a $300 inspection fee... but that's rare. Still, I built to NEC 2011 requirements and am a whisker away from 2014 requirements. I will never risk my insurance company not paying if I have a house fire.

Need I go on??? While I'm still very happy that I made the jump to a whole house system it's a far cry from the Solar Max 5300 system. Think of a $700 portable generator with extension cords running through the house vs a $7500 hard wired Gentac whole home generator. What level are you looking to go to??? If it's grid tied it probably will qualify for a 30% Federal tax credit but you will either want a larger system or go with a grid tie battery backup system. You can do what I do and just flip the breaker and not be grid tied but you will still need that very expensive sub panel and NEC certified wiring setup.

footnote... got a call from a neighbor this morning asking if my power was out. the area was without power for 2 hrs today and I never noticed.


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## I'd_last_a_day

Oh wow a lot to chew on I'll be reading this a few times. The major thing that I'm taking away from this is that I should not play the middle ground and this unit is playing the middle ground. Either have a portable backup unit or go the whole 9 yards and have a home tied unit. Let's see if I'm following you, are you saying that after you get above a certain power level it becomes economically wasteful to NOT be selling excess power back to the grid? (Oh by the way I live in the US also)
My goal is to have a nice backup unit for the essentials if power is lost. Perhaps the power equivalent of a Honda EU3000. However I do realize how MASSIVELY larger a solar unit would have to be to match that sized gasoline inverter generator.

So ok let me come out and admit that I don't know what I'm talking about, and I find your replies daunting enough to realize that I am now definitely after a unit that is as close as possible to 'Good to go out of the box.' These Wholesale Solar 'Complete Systems' unfortunately as you pointed out are not fully complete. So these Wholesale Solar Units are the farthest I want to go with regard to do it myself work (not out of laziness but out of concern because in their videos they were cautioning about how you can mess things up if you set your system up wrong). I would like to KNOW it is set up professionally.

Ok let me digress for a second, I totally forgot I had this link saved, it's a fully portable complete solar generator. Now THIS is what I had in mind when I read 'Complete Systems' on the Wholesale Solar site...

Perigee Power Solutions

Now those are full blown portable units, literally inside of a cart (except for the panels of course). So now here's my thinking, if I do drop down a few levels and buy a smaller 'Complete Unit' from Wholesale Solar I wonder if I can rig it up in a similar portable way like these Solar Wedges? Then of course there's the option to just buy one of the Perigee Solar Wedges already in the cart...however, you said that Wholesale Solar has the best deals, so I don't want to go with 2nd best because I'm afraid to rig my own portable cart, I just don't know if it's possible or not to get it in a cart. Of course that's a mute point if you were to tell me that the Solar Wedge looks like equal value. But there's just something that makes me cautious of the Solar Wedges, isn't a 6,000 watt inverter too big for it's size? I think that it is and that kind of makes me not trust their expertise. I spent last night watching all of the Wholesale Solar vids and reading up on them and I feel like their expertise is top shelf (which you confirmed of course). But not sure about Perigee, what do you think, do their units look like good quality and a fair price? Thanks so much for the help!


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## csi-tech

I was looking at a Zamp 120 watt solar charger for my dual 12v battery bank. It is 669.00. There is a 120W solar charger with the controller and also uses polycrystalene panels for 299.00 on Ebay. The specs look the same, but what gives? Is Zamp stuff worth the extra money?


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## 8301

The start of this thread (solarmax 5300) was an emergency or occasional use solar system large enough to be a big help in a SHTF situation but not so big that it cost a ton of money. The unit I designed was a bit larger and more durable at a similar price. The Wholesale Solar system you suggested with all the additional needed parts costs about 3 times as much (and is 3 times the system). For that amount of money you really need to hardwire it into the house to help make if somewhat slightly financially justifiable. It's one thing to spend $5000 to run a few things with extension cords knowing that you have a SHTF backup. But with a $15,000 system that can run so much of your home you really don't want 20 extension cords running through the house. You want to use the house wiring for a system that large which means a sub panel and moving a lot of wire over to it.

So it really boils down to what are you looking to do with this solar system.

The Wedge really looks like a slick little package, a tight unit that looks well designed although I agree that the 6000 watt inverter is way too big for those batteries. It can easily burn the batteries out after a few months with heavy loads. A very rough calculation shows that you can duplicate the components (without the cart) of the $8500 wedge for about $5800.


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## I'd_last_a_day

That post makes complete sense! Now that I have been thinking it over I will admit that I am undecided because I will be searching for a new home within a year or 2. I'm starting to rethink paying good money for a portable unit as opposed to making grid tied solar a major part of my home criteria (so far the only SHTF criteria I really had in mind for my future home search was a wood stove). Actually not totally true, up until recently I have been somewhat contemplating a nice diesel generator as back up for my future house also...but now I'm torn between that and solar. So much to think over! 

Wow that thing about the 6000 watt inverter being WAY too big for the batteries and being a threat to burn out the batteries in a few months sounds unbelievably incompetent!!! I mean imagine me, a guy who is solar illiterate, having to order a Solar Wedge yet request a smaller inverter so that it is sized right lol, there's something seriously off about that. To tell you the truth, I do like to open links from people in here about complete solar systems and it seems like a LOT of them have oversized inverters, what's up with that?? The only reason that I even know this is due to a sticky that I read in this forum or maybe it was another one, about properly sizing inverters.


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## 8301

If you're drawing 6000 watts you really need at least a 48v 400 amp hr battery bank (19200 watt hrs) through at least 2/0 cables.
The $8500 wedge has a 24v 200 amp hr bank (4800 watt hrs) and pulling 6000 watts through at 24v requires 4/0 cables. The $7500 wedge battery bank is smaller.

If you only pull 1500-2000 watts with that smaller battery bank you'd be fine but pulling 5000 watts for more than a minute or two would begin to damage the batteries. In addition when you pull a battery too hard you get voltage ripples so you lose your 60 hz from the inverter which potentially can hurt delicate electronics and make clocks rum off speed.


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## 8301

csi-tech said:


> I was looking at a Zamp 120 watt solar charger for my dual 12v battery bank. It is 669.00. There is a 120W solar charger with the controller and also uses polycrystalene panels for 299.00 on Ebay. The specs look the same, but what gives? Is Zamp stuff worth the extra money?


I don't know anything about Zamp products. 120 watts is at best 10 amps but since solar panels rarely put out rated watts and the charge controller will loose a bit that 120 watts is probably closer to 7 amps. Since you want about a c/10 charge rate for the batteries if your batteries have a combined amp rating of over 70 amps that 120 watt panel is probably too small to charge the batteries if they are cycled very often.

charging voltage 14.4v controller passes through 100 watts. 100w/14.4v = 6.9 amps So perfect for charging a 69 amp/hr 12v battery.


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## saikat68

*Portable Solar Generators*

It's still a very heavy unit, and adding a wheeled transport option. This product can be more accurately described as a battery. The battery half of the previously listed Goal Zero Solar Generator kit. Life will be more reliable with this. You can reliable on this at your daily life.8 Best Reviewed Portable Solar Power Generators for 2016 - Jerusalem Post


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## 8301

I doubt that any of the units described on this thread qualify as easily portable.

About the best that may qualify as easily portable would be something like this with a 70 amp battery. https://www.amazon.com/ECO-WORTHY-P...3754&sr=8-9&keywords=100+watt+solar+panel+kit

I have a brother who really doesn't believe in prepping but he got one like it "just in case". His came with a padded soft case to protect it and it carries like a narrow suitcase with a little handle. It provides enough power to charge a few batteries and with a 12v car battery and 12v leds would allow him some light around the place.


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## RJAMES

I have not done anything other than some solar lights, solar vent fans for some buildings, portable 12 volt suit case solar unit for camping - I can use it with my camper or my jeep set up. 

For an emergency only system - not grid tied . I have thought about a solar power trailer- A trailer with a battery bank and panels mounted on it or at least loaded on it so they can be placed out when in use. I have seen a very expensive power trailer built for government/military use. Can be towed anywhere a military vehicle can go, can be moved with a helicopter. Had solar panels, battery bank, inverters , generator and fuel storage . I think it even had a wind turbine on it. Idea was get it to a remote area and try to use solar/ wind for power so as not to have to resupply with fuel quite as often. 

It would add to the cost of your backup home system setting that battery bank on a trailer rather than a frame. But I am not sure it would be a lot more those Harbor Freight trailers are not that much even with the batteries set into poly truck boxes . Might get lucky and find stuff used. I would think the trailer would still have a lot of usable payload and space even if you left the batteries on the trailer. You got your emergency back up at home, a small utility trailer granted with a lower payload do to the batteries and you got movable power along with some gear hauling capacity . 

Regardless of what you do you need a backup power system and solar is by far the way to go about it.


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## hany

Portable Solar Generators.

This is nice one .but i suggest you to buy a portable solar that give you great opportunity .Portable Solar Power Generators provide a wide range of power storage and outputs to run and recharge you important gear, devices and electronics. 
if you know about this,please visit this site .you will know more about this product .
i think this product is best product in the world .
.
thank youlain:


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## spork

hany said:


> Portable Solar Generators.
> 
> This is nice one .but i suggest you to buy a portable solar that give you great opportunity .Portable Solar Power Generators provide a wide range of power storage and outputs to run and recharge you important gear, devices and electronics.
> if you know about this,please visit this site .you will know more about this product .
> i think this product is best product in the world .
> .
> thank youlain:


Wow...

Sent from my crappy phone using Tapatalk


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## A Watchman

hany said:


> Portable Solar Generators.
> 
> This is nice one .but i suggest you to buy a portable solar that give you great opportunity .Portable Solar Power Generators provide a wide range of power storage and outputs to run and recharge you important gear, devices and electronics.
> if you know about this,please visit this site .you will know more about this product .
> i think this product is best product in the world .
> .
> thank youlain:


Now hold on just a darn minute Mr. Hany .... I am still trying to figure out just which Hany you are supposed to be? Would ya mind clearing up this little matter before we take your word on you being an expert and all?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Haney
Hany (2014) - IMDb
https://www.facebook.com/Real.Uncle.Hany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hany_Abu-Assad


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## Fl grandma

Hi John, Happy New Year to you and yours. I see you've been busy, while it's only the 7th, and this month I try to get as much of my things in order, I did want to take the time to say hello, and let you know we'll be talking some more. If you go up to the first line of the Forum, on the 2nd line there is a heading 'private message' and I think that also allows you to send a private message...will be back to go over the spec's you gave me last month. God Bless


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## Damskienet

interesting topic


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## stowlin

If you need a package to learn how it functions (I did) then buy as small and affordable package as you can. I have an expensive one stored on the boat that's a back up now. Later I bought two large panels, figured out how to secure them in a spot that gets lots of sun on the boat and charges up some batteries that I can run my electric gear from.


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## BellaCassels

Very intersting, I might need to get this for my family. Thanks.


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## 8301

You all know I love solar and have solar but for those of you looking to get by for 60 days using the same 6500/watt/hrs/day the system I suggested on page 2 (almost twice what the solar max 5600 actually makes) here is a less expensive solution with 120/240v so you can run a well pump. Just like all of the other units listed on this thread you will need to run power cables.

Propane powered so no fuel rotating. Modified sine wave so you wouldn't want to run motors or delicate electronics directly from the generator for months but the battery powered inverter listed will run all small electronics fine. Durable pieces only since it's for long term emergency use. I haven't super researched this but it looks like a good combination.

Generac 3250 watt generator $609 https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-EGD-LP3250KIT-Portable-Generator/p69178.html This generator will make the same amount of power on the average day as the solar system per average sun in the US day I speced out on page 2 using about 9 lbs (2.3 gallons) of fuel per day.

Many ways to go with the propane fuel but to keep things super simple I'll go with the most expensive but easiest to get propane, the prefilled 20 lb tank like you use for a grill. Roughly 1 tank every 2 days so 30 tanks at $54 each so $1,620. There are defiantly cheaper ways to get and store your fuel but let's keep this super simple.

Since the generator will only be running for 3-4 hrs a day let's add some high quality batteries for lower power loads what's needed to keep them charged up.

Two Trojan 6v batteries hooked in series for 12v $406 https://www.solar-electric.com/trt6vo225ahd.html
two battery cables to hook the batteries to make 12v $20
40 amp battery charger (also useful for general auto work) $130 https://www.amazon.com/CBC40E-Battery-Charger-Engine-Start/dp/B00PP6LJ1I/ref=sr_1_1?
ie=UTF8&qid=1487476052&sr=8-1&keywords=40+amp+battery+charger at 40 amps it's large enough to charge the batteries up in a few hours
and for maintain healthy batteries when not being used plug one on these into your house $28 https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tend...487476790&sr=8-2&keywords=12v+trickle+charger 
And to provide clean 120v pure sine wave power for when the generator is off =for a few lights ect. $172 https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GP-...7&sr=1-9&keywords=pure+sine+wave+inverter+12v

total price is $2957 
shopping around for propane using larger tanks ect can reduce this price. Get enough oil to change the generator oil out a few times. Keep a chain and lock so you can lock up the generator. From what I've read generators tend to get stolen during grid down events.


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## quinnbrian

John Galt,
Good point about the well pump and any bigger AC motors (not like, a little DC motor , running on AC) like a lot of the small stuff out there..hair dry...mixers...coffee maker...drill...etc.
I don't think I've ever run my well pump off the generator.., always though the inverter, while the gen was running....dirty generator power in....clean inverted power out. I know it does seem to make much sense...but the inverter I have is a pure sin wave inverter, and it clean everything up pretty good. In almost 6 years, haven't lost a well pump, furnace..TV laptop...you know , the thing that will take a hard hit on your pocket box , if needed to be replaced.
Cheers
B

I like propane...but I only uses it for 2 things, my propane stove/oven and furnace, I'd would never use it for a refrigerator, most will eat propane @ about a pound a day...your propane will go fast!! 
The gen I uses is diesel (Lister air cooled SR2 with 10 Kw head) eat about 1/3 a gal an hour, in the winter I run the gen in the evening sometimes...for around 3 hour to recharge batteries, when the snow is blowing, and the sun is hiding.
I would like to try a propane gen, but the difference in btu's in the 2 fuel, is alot, I can't remember, what it is exactly, but for some reason I'm think propane has about %20 less btu's per gal, compared to diesel. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## 8301

Not sure about diesel but I know propane has about 30% less energy than gasoline. And I agree, motors will last much longer when fed pure sine wave power.


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## quinnbrian

Hello John ,
Here is a wed page I just look up. http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf

BTU'S of gas : 112,114 to 116,090
BTU'S of diesel : 128,484
BTU's of propane: 84,250

It shows that a gallon of diesel has about 113% of the energy as a gallon of gas, and that propane has about 73% of the energy of a gallon of gas...so is it true.... well its on the net...so it has to be true LOL, 
So if I did the math right, it put propane at about 40% less energy then a gallon of diesel...sound right...maybe, but seem a little low to me.( So what it's saying is .... one gallon of propane only has 60% of the energy as a gallon of diesel??)
Know wonder it's cheaper then gas or diesel...or is it, by the above numbers, it's almost the same, if you add, another 40% on the price of a gallon of propane.
It all seem a little crazy to me.
In Ontario, Canada I just had my house propane tanks filled at a cost of .72 cents a liter, so 1 U.S. gallon is equal to 3.78541 liters (.72x3.78541= $2.73 per gallon) if you add the 40% to the price is like $3.82 a gallon. If I add 40% to the price,PER LITER ( as in I would pay for it) I get a $1.008 per liter of diesel...but wait..that's about what I'm paying for diesel, right now!
Yes I guess our government loves us too...NOT!!
I know Trump ,is your new number ONE now...but do you think there would be room for one more refugee for a bordering communist country...I speak english..well sort of...need help with the big words. Canada if not in a good place right now. We'll let anyone into the country!! And pay you to come here...most of the time , we'll pay you more then what the average person (in Canada) will make in a year, by working there ass off.
Dis-regard this last part..it's been a long day. 
Cheers
B


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