# OK Military guys & Veterans....talk to me



## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Last year as #3 was finishing up his high school, he decided he was going to join the Army. OK if that's what he wants to do, I'll support him and I think it would be good for him and his future, since he has no clue what he really wants to do. It would give him the confidence, training and direction he needs because he's more of a dreamer than a doer. Great......until he said he was going to be a Combat Engineer, so he 'could blow sh*t up'. I tried to be supportive of his choice, but damn....the Mom side won and I panicked. That's my baby getting shot at and/or blown up and I wasn't fine with it after all. Didn't help this was only a few months after losing hubs and the prospect of losing him too (either literally or figuratively) was more than I was ready to handle. He said he had second thoughts & didn't go. 

Fast forward to now and the subject has come up again. I'm sure he'd have to start all over from scratch and reapply, retake the tests which may provide more options of his interests, etc. As of now, he's talking Military Police, though he hasn't reapplied yet to know if he'd qualify. 

I guess I'm asking if this is such a good choice to go into the military as it 'seems' to be. Whether it's for 3 years or a career. Sounds like a good idea in many ways, but there's always those that come away either disillusioned or angry for being 'used' by the government. 

What has your own experience been and how do you feel about it? I'm not talking about having been in active war and the autrocities either you've been ordered to do, or have seen done or was done to you.......but did you learn valuable skills for working or living as a civilian? Is there anything that you wish you would have known before going in??? Did you enlist or were you drafted? 

*sigh*....I apologize if these are 'stupid, idealistic' questions that have nothing to do with the real world of military life, but I'll never know unless I ask....and I'm not even sure I know the right questions to ask. Any information would be greatly appreciated.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I was an MP. I’d suggest against it. 

I’d suggest an MOS that will translate into a good civilian job such as aircraft mechanic. 

Make sure he enrolls in the college benefit thing and take all the classes he can while serving.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

As far as being used by the government, that’s gonna happen. As long as he knows that when he joins, he won’t be disillusioned.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

A combat engineer is one of the most dangerous jobs worse than a rifleman.

As @Denton said, train in a civilian related job such as an aircraft mechanic, tell him to get into a position for an A&E or A&P.

I had an A&P a long time ago, but not from the military.

When I was in all I did was learn to kill with many different weapons, and how to survive.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

1st question to ask... what MOS'S GET PROMOTED THE BEST
2nd what MOS's offer the best translation to a GOOD paying civilian job


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

I was a helicopter mechanic for 20 years. I loved the first 16 years and parts of the next 4. Military intel analyst are where the money is at now. He can do 6 years and get out making 6 figures with any intel agency or contractor.


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## gyro_cfi (Jan 12, 2016)

dsdmmat said:


> I was a helicopter mechanic for 20 years. I loved the first 16 years and parts of the next 4. Military intel analyst are where the money is at now. He can do 6 years and get out making 6 figures with any intel agency or contractor.


This or counter intelligence in Marines. Get to play 007 all day. Combat engineer in the Army spends 90% of their time in the motor pool getting greasy and 10% time in the field getting hot, sweaty and dirty. The Recruitment Brochure is BS.

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## oldditchdoctor (Jan 1, 2016)

From the civilian side, as a college educator and academic advisor, look at what will translate to college credits. The recruiter and colleges have books that spell out what MOs translates into how many credits. 
Example: 18D - Special Forces Medic
As long as they have National Registry Basic, some of that training transfers. It has to be current upon admission, but it counts toward a degree in Paramedic. 
There are others, such as MP, that count towards a degree as well. 
Look also at return on investment. He will be investing in his life, what will give him an edge over the next person if he gets RIF’d. I have a buddy that was a tanker, he got RIF’d and went through hell finding a job. “Blowing stuff up only translates to a small percentage of civilian jobs,” was what they told him when he applied for jobs. Even as a “civilian employee” it was hard to get a job. It took over a year to find work, his family lived off of one income for over a year, stress that as he looks!
There are great jobs out there, military service helps when it’s on a resumé. 


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

JustAnotherNut said:


> I guess I'm asking if this is such a good choice to go into the military as it 'seems' to be. Whether it's for 3 years or a career. Sounds like a good idea in many ways, but there's always those that come away either disillusioned or angry for being 'used' by the government.
> 
> What has your own experience been and how do you feel about it? I'm not talking about having been in active war and the autrocities either you've been ordered to do, or have seen done or was done to you.......but did you learn valuable skills for working or living as a civilian? Is there anything that you wish you would have known before going in??? Did you enlist or were you drafted?


I think going into the military is a great choice. No other job gives someone so young so much responsibility. It makes you grow up as you just can't get mad & quit like in a normal job. You have to get tough... especially mentally.

I volunteered after the draft was cancelled. I had been thru 2 years of college & was disillusioned & didn't know what to do. I had been in the School of Wildlife Management at Mississippi State & was doing great. They offered me a scholarship to stay but I turned it down. So I transferred to Univ. of Memphis, because it was close to home & had an Air Force ROTC detachment. So my 3rd year of college was just taking more science & getting involved with the folks in ROTC. Met some great people & signed up for the professional part, where you commit to joining the Air Force as an enlistee if you don't graduate & get commissioned an officer. They also offered me a scholarship for my last 2 years, if I would become a Minuteman Missile Combat Crewmember. I volunteered to be stationed in Minot, ND.

Obviously. the skills I learned in the Air Force didn't translate well to civilian life. I did get to launch one of our missiles from the California test site, out into the Pacific. Two years later, as a 1st Lt. I was a commander responsible for 10 nuclear armed missiles in my flight. Those skills were of little use to me as a civilian however what did translate was confidence in myself. As a young 2nd Lt. I was given immense responsibility & the training I went thru was as tough or tougher than anything I experienced in college. Long story short, the Air Force made me a man. I never felt like the government "used" me. They paid my way thru 2 years of college & paid me well enough while I served. I got something from them... they got something from me.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I never served but my Ol' Dad did post WW2 and he didn't have to tell me, I saw it. 

He stood a little taller, straighter and with more confidence because of his time in the Army. And he was a big man anyway. 

He had good life stories that he would subtly tell; life lessons that he learned in the military. And this Man, a product of Blue Collar Steel Mill US Army Stock put the US Flag on his suit lapel (late in his career) and made damn sure he attended his grandson's Veterans Day festivities and local parades. He wasn't a wealthy man, but he provided for us and worked hard to give himself a helluva good life until his death. He made me proud and I figured out his US Army service was a big part of it.

That's all I know and wanted to share.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

We had a saying about combat engineers - they were infantry with a job.

Any MOS in the Army or Marines will build life skills needed to excell in life. A particular MOS may not have much civilian application, but the other things learned are invaluable.

Personally, I would suggest he join the Air Force, simply because their living conditions are so, so, much better than any other branch. 

When it comes to the Army, the combat branches build a cameraderie that is unlike anything found anywhere else. Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Cavalry.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> We had a saying about combat engineers - they were infantry with a job.
> 
> Any MOS in the Army or Marines will build life skills needed to excell in life. A particular MOS may not have much civilian application, but the other things learned are invaluable.
> 
> ...


Been there, done that, 3 years RA and 22 years guard.

Air force is good but IMHO too much chicken shit depending on what you are in.

Navy is good to for civilian prep, electronic schools are top grade along with the AF ones.


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## oldditchdoctor (Jan 1, 2016)

Coast Guard is another option!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

oldditchdoctor said:


> Coast Guard is another option!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Much respect for Coasties!


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Denton said:


> I was an MP. I'd suggest against it.
> 
> I'd suggest an MOS that will translate into a good civilian job such as aircraft mechanic.
> 
> Make sure he enrolls in the college benefit thing and take all the classes he can while serving.


Why do you suggest against an MP? Just wondering and like I said I don't know if he'd qualify from test scores....or is an MP available to all?


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

SOCOM42 said:


> A combat engineer is one of the most dangerous jobs worse than a rifleman.
> 
> As @Denton said, train in a civilian related job such as an aircraft mechanic, tell him to get into a position for an A&E or A&P.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's why I had the Mom moment and panicked.

What is an A&E or A&P?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

JustAnotherNut said:


> Why do you suggest against an MP? Just wondering and like I said I don't know if he'd qualify from test scores....or is an MP available to all?


I imagine he scored high enough for MP. 
The MP chain of command eat their young for sport. 
Being an MP doesn't do much toward becoming a civilian cop, either. 
There are much better choices. As a matter of fact, there are better services. The Navy's nuclear program comes to mind.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

JustAnotherNut said:


> Yeah, that's why I had the Mom moment and panicked.
> 
> What is an A&E or A&P?


Dunno what an A&E is, it A&P is airframe and power plant.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Thanks guys for the words of advice, it kinda makes me feel better if he does chose to go. He's very quiet and reserved, hiding behind a laugh as a cover for lack of confidence. He's not shy, just quiet, almost too quiet. The responsibility and training would give him focus and realize his strengths for him to 'blossom' so to speak. 

We'll see if he does follow thru with it this time and just what he chooses to do while there, and if so, this time I'll stay out of it (I hope)


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Denton said:


> Dunno what an A&E is, it A&P is airframe and power plant.


and what is that??

As you can probably tell, I don't have the first clue when it comes to military ANYTHING.....I just the cheering section


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Denton said:


> I imagine he scored high enough for MP.
> The MP chain of command eat their young for sport.
> Being an MP doesn't do much toward becoming a civilian cop, either.
> There are much better choices. As a matter of fact, there are better services. The Navy's nuclear program comes to mind.


I'm not sure why he chose the Army, or if there was a reason he couldn't join one of the others


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

JustAnotherNut said:


> and what is that??
> 
> As you can probably tell, I don't have the first clue when it comes to military ANYTHING.....I just the cheering section


Certification required to work on aircraft and aircraft engines. It's an FAA thing and not military but military aviation training makes getting the certs a cinch.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

JustAnotherNut said:


> I'm not sure why he chose the Army, or if there was a reason he couldn't join one of the others


There is nothing that would preclude him from choosing another branch if he can join the Army. It's simply his preference. 
It's an honorable choice; I'm just thinking about his future options in the civilian world. Ideals are one thing and the size of paychecks are another.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Denton said:


> There is nothing that would preclude him from choosing another branch if he can join the Army. It's simply his preference.
> It's an honorable choice; I'm just thinking about his future options in the civilian world. Ideals are one thing and the size of paychecks are another.


True enough.......personally I think he'd do better either as a desk jockey of some sort.....or better yet a paramedic. He's already shown himself to be great in emergency situations.

When he was about 5-ish, #2 had gotten stung by a bee and is anaphylactic to honey bees....and while #2 is screaming he was going to die and I'm trying to calm him down, #3 had already gotten the Epi-pen and phone and brought them to me.
Then just a few years ago when #2 was trying to weld something on the back deck with a torch that had a leak. All I seen was a bright flash of light from another room and #3 had crossed the livingroom & dining room to the deck in about 3 steps to put the fire out because #2 ran into the garage to get away from it.

Yep, life around here can be exciting and it's a wonder I have any hair left


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The A&E when I was around aircraft was for airframe and electrical, that was 55 years ago.

I got the hours required for the A&P working at the FBO.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Military is not for everyone. If he does it encourage him to go in with a plan to use ever benefit so in 4 years he walks out ahead of the game. If he decides to stay he is still ahead of the game. Combat engines is a wide field what you end up doing will depend on fate and skills you may adapt to. You have the light side and the heavy different missions. Blowing shit up is a very small part of it.
Today's Army is not yesterdays . Even in the infantry education is required to move up. MP mos is not the clamor many think it is. But nothing ever really is. Even the medical fields in the Army are not what many remember it to be 91B, 68W all a different game now.
Some times you just need to sign the paper take the oath and see where you end up. Many of us had a path laid out the day we took the oath , only to see that path altered for many different reasons. Life will often ensure you end up where you were meant to be rather than where you thought you wanted to be. Not one of us end the journey in the direction we had planned.
Military service has been a big part of this family for a long time. At times it was not easy but in all cases a worth while journey for us all.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

As @Smitty901 said you never know what will happen after taking the oath.

Myself, I went RA to get into the radio repair school, caught pneumonia in basic, was recycled and ended up in the infantry.

Got out after the Cuban missile crisis extension ended.

About ten years later joined the guard under the try one program and stayed for 20 years.

They pestered my ass to go to rotocraft school, seeing I was a pilot with ratings, wanted no part of that.

Would have been a transition program.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The MOS numbers have all changed, but tracked vehicle mechanic or wheeled vehicle mechanic would translate into a high paying civilian job.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

A friend of mine's son retired from the AF after 24 years, was stationed at MacDill AFB, Fl.

I don't know what he did there but the new officer in charge of his section was an asshole.

The fun thing was he took the same job back as a civilian out from under the idiots command.

He got 4X the pay in doing so, about a year later they relieved the idiot in charge.

I will have to ask what he does there.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

My neck was too big for army regs (at least that's what the recruiter told me, it was wrestling season) also told me my ASVAB scores were high enough to do anything I wanted. Lots of my friends and classmates (even ex-girlfriend) joined up to get college paid for (all Army I believe) that was 1998... just in time to get sent to the desert in 2001.. think the ex worked the mail in Iraq and eventually became a lawyer. Had a roommate in Minot ND join the AF and ended up fixing radios (sent from the desert) in shop in AZ. moved to SD then MN, married a stripper and got a job with the railroad after he got out.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I'm and ex Infantryman, Ranger, and a Green Beret (and no, by god, a Ranger ain't a Green Beret!!!!).... I wouldn't change anything about what I have done, but I also wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Its like the old prisoners who are institutionalized... prison has good memories, cause thats all they remember.

I have two sons that went into IT in the navy. They did 4 years and both have 85K a year jobs in the civilian world. My 3rd is an Airforce Cyber technician. My fourth is in College to be an egineer. He'll make less than the other 3 for many many years I'm sure.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> As @Smitty901 said you never know what will happen after taking the oath.
> 
> Myself, I went RA to get into the radio repair school, caught pneumonia in basic, was recycled and ended up in the infantry.
> 
> ...


 Once in a lot depends on you. Doors open if you are ready or crazy enough to step up. I hear so many times "all I did in the Army was stand around in a line". Well they were not in the Army I was. Every time I turned around I was off to another school and new adventure. There were time while finishing one course ,received orders to report to another one.
A young man enters the Army and starts out in one MOS. Needs of the Army, lack of slots for advancement ect that soldier ends up in another MOS and many more doors open. The higher up you go the more they want to see experience that covers a wide path.
Infantry today is not just a soldier with boots, ruck and a rifle. By the time you make E5 you better bring more to the table. The Army of today is not known for spending time on those that have no motivation to move up and expand their value.
full list of MOS. And with in them is more to the story.

https://www.operationmilitarykids.org/army-mos-list/


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The MOS numbers have all changed, but tracked vehicle mechanic or wheeled vehicle mechanic would translate into a high paying civilian job.


This kid isn't 'mechanic' material, as he doesn't like to get dirty and kind of a germaphobe. Mechanics is #2's field of expertise as that's what he's doing now for a national trucking company and loves it. Also can tear apart a car or truck and put it back together in a couple days, less if he's short on time and has to rush. About 5 or 6 years ago, when he was having alot of trouble in school I had mentioned it would be nice to have a mechanic in the family and he took to it like a duck to water. Transferred to a tech college to get his HS diploma while taking mechanics for college credits, but he got frustrated because the school kept jacking him around about getting the diploma (which he never did get) and after the first couple of semesters he wasn't learning anything. I tried to keep him in, to get whatever certs he needed for the future, but after hubs passed away and there was no way we could afford to live here on only my income, he quit the school and went to work. He had already proved to me he he had learned more from watching YouTube than the school had ever taught him, when he had taken apart an engine, fixed what was wrong and put it back in a weekend when the school was still teaching oil changes & checking tire pressure after 2 years in the program. Now, finally he's trying to get his GED for his job, so he can move into the shop and actually start working on the engines and includes a huge raise. Right now he's more of a 'lot attendant' that cleans up incoming trucks, fuels them up, maybe some tinkering under the hood, but not full fledged 'mechanic' yet. But he's happy to get to drive them around the yard and is sometimes sent out to pick up trucks at other locations to bring them in.

#3 just hasn't found his 'niche' yet and military may help him to do that. He's always lived under #2's shadow and hanging back. Then in his most important teen years, life in general just kept going sideways. First I had cancer, then 2 years later hubs was diagnosed & told he only had 2 months to live from a radiologist that should have kept his mouth shut and later was told just that. Hubs actually lived 3 years before passing just a few months before #3 graduated high school and turned 18. Hubs wasn't really 'available' to have some of those father/son moments or talks about life, work & whatever in the years #3 needed them most. He's now 19 and still flopping around like a fish out of water. I've tried to fill in where hubs wasn't able too, but gee, I'm Mom and what do I know about stuff like that. That's why I do think the military may be the best substitute in that regard, to help him 'man up' and build that confidence and identity


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I had a 1stSgt one time who was a EOD guy (Explosive Ordinance Disposal)

He said there was a very wonderful calculator for determining the amount of an explosion to bring down a tree or take down a bridge support.

once you put all the factors in and came up with the amount of explosives needed.. you then did the final step of the calculation - you multiplied the amount by 2.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I had a 1stSgt one time who was a EOD guy (Explosive Ordinance Disposal)
> 
> He said there was a very wonderful calculator for determining the amount of an explosion to bring down a tree or take down a bridge support.
> 
> once you put all the factors in and came up with the amount of explosives needed.. you then did the final step of the calculation - you multiplied the amount by 2.


Plenty is enough, more is better we use to say.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

In 1969, what ever our Brigade needed that day is what you became.
The guy who would become my best friend had just completed 26 weeks of radio repair school.
His job became being the guy who kept the big diesel generator running for the Tactical Operations Center bunker. He never touched a radio.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> In 1969, what ever our Brigade needed that day is what you became.
> The guy who would become my best friend had just completed 26 weeks of radio repair school.
> His job became being the guy who kept the big diesel generator running for the Tactical Operations Center bunker. He never touched a radio.


 Mission dictates roles. When Convoys were short on security. Soldiers from headquarters were tapped to fill roles as drivers and security if they were deemed up to it. If they were not ready they got some training quick.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Speaking of which, unless he is certain he is going to love his MOS, he needs to find out if it is a critical/shortage MOS. 
When I was in, military police was critical/shortage. I was stuck. My drinking buddies at Sierra Army Depot were EOD. With the olympics coming to L.A., they were in need of more. Their commander took a liking to me and did all he could to get me into EOD. It didn’t happen. 

There are many little but important things someone looking to join the army needs to know.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Medic/Corpsman. But really, go Navy. Best training ever... Of course I am partial. 
Many of my friends that went medical got out, and went down the path of PAs, LPNs etc.
First thing, make sure he is qualified to join first. Go to MEPPS, get physical, take ASVAB. ASVAB has many tests within it. They tell you , what you may be best able to do. This test is an awesome standardized test.. It has many many decades of data to show who will do well based off of Combined scores within ASVAB.
In the Navy, as well as others, their is another test. If he has a real good understanding of the English language, ask to take the DLAB test. Then, if you pass, you will be given the opportunity to become a linguist... Great career path...
But again, get qualified to join first. Otherwise, dont sell or buy a job.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

The biggest mistake I ever made in my life was not going into the service and spending 20+ years.

I graduated high school in 1973 and the war was ending. My Dad had gone to Nam twice...spent 32 years in the service. He never tried to steer me in that direction.

I had poon and other things on my mind at 18.

The young people I have a chance to talk with who are in the service, I try to convince them to stay in. See as much of the world as you can...take advantage of everything the military has to offer. Keep your nose clean and make the most of it.

Young folks have no idea how fast 20 years goes by. When you are 65, it's the blink of an eye.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The MOS numbers have all changed, but tracked vehicle mechanic or wheeled vehicle mechanic would translate into a high paying civilian job.


Not unless things have changed. You get out with very little knowledge useful today. Electronic fuel injection and all the computer stuff on modern vehicles isn't found on the military versions for the most part. The deep technical repairs are handled by civilians.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Here is my final words of wisdom on the issue. The military used to be good at maturing young men and women. Now a days it just breeds more #me too nuts. "Oh I served too.....Oh I'm a veteran....

so my advice... if your not sure what you want to do, then only sign up for a couple-or three years....damn the bonus money and damned the advice of your recruiters. I know several folks who have been in three services looking for their fit. "If your looking for a mountain...start moving and check your direction ever so often to make sure your not going in circles" thats the same advice I gave to Mohammad...or would have if he had asked me.

preference of service:
Coast Guard
Airforce
Navy
Salvation Army
Army
Marine Corp
Peace Corp - Just kidding...no one should ever join the peace corp....


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

In today's Army you can earn a living. Starting with Nixon pay raise life got better. Not great but better. The real issues is most that can reach the rank of SSG and above today would likely do every well outside the military. Those that make it to SFC and 1SG seem to be the type that would do well most any where. Those that retire often move into very well paying second lives. Even in today's military the paycheck or dream of a 20 year retirement is not a top of the list reason to stay. Much more to it than that.
You will give up a lot to make it 20-30 years. Much more than most jobs. Once you put in the first 10 it is hard to walk away. But many do. Often due to family.
To do well after leaving a soldier must take advantage of all they military offers . While degree may not be in your MOS field. By E7 it is hard to move up with out one. An associate goes along way in making you more attractive for promotion 4-5 and 6.
1SG and above bachelors pretty much required. Like all things in life there are exceptions.
You do a serious disservice to any young person if they think it is a easy ride to a 20 year retirement.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Mission dictates roles. When Convoys were short on security. Soldiers from headquarters were tapped to fill roles as drivers and security if they were deemed up to it. If they were not ready they got some training quick.


in the 1960's the Army doctrine said every soldier is a rifleman first, regardless of MOS.
And we were trained as such.'

In Vietnam, our Brigade commander praticed this, and even finance clerks got a turn on partol outside the wire.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Speaking of Army pay, as an E-5 with an additional $65/month combat pay and $13/month overseas pay I was making $335 per month. Total.
This was 1970.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Speaking of Army pay, as an E-5 with an additional $65/month combat pay and $13/month overseas pay I was making $335 per month. Total.
> This was 1970.


Uh-huh. And the price of a gallon of gas was in the .30's. 
Is there a museum named after you? :vs_laugh:


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

My Dad was in in the Army Air Corp before WWII started. He was making $18 per month.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> I had a 1stSgt one time who was a EOD guy (Explosive Ordinance Disposal)
> 
> He said there was a very wonderful calculator for determining the amount of an explosion to bring down a tree or take down a bridge support.
> 
> once you put all the factors in and came up with the amount of explosives needed.. you then did the final step of the calculation - you multiplied the amount by 2.


He did mention EOD the other day and I just said NO.

I don't think it's really what he wants to do....blowing shit up.....I think he just thinks it's cool. Kinda like the 'squirrel' of the moment


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> In 1969, what ever our Brigade needed that day is what you became.
> The guy who would become my best friend had just completed 26 weeks of radio repair school.
> His job became being the guy who kept the big diesel generator running for the Tactical Operations Center bunker. He never touched a radio.


Yeah, I understand that, though I'm not sure he does.

Sure, sign up for whatever you want, but we'll put you wherever we want.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Denton said:


> There is nothing that would preclude him from choosing another branch if he can join the Army. It's simply his preference.


Actually there is. Criminal record. And unfortunately when he was 11/12 pulled a stupid and costly stunt that gave him a class C felony. He broke several school windows with a friend. Final replacement costs were over $5000. I refused to pay for his choices and made him work it off to learn a lesson.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

JustAnotherNut said:


> Actually there is. Criminal record. And unfortunately when he was 11/12 pulled a stupid and costly stunt that gave him a class C felony. He broke several school windows with a friend. Final replacement costs were over $5000. I refused to pay for his choices and made him work it off to learn a lesson.


My supervisor has a juvvy felony. He was avionics in the Army. He was in Iraq. 
He has a good job and is surrounded by vets like me who take care of one another. 
Oh. That's something about joining the Brotherhood. We take care of one another. 
Brotherhood is gender-neutral, by the way. Cross one of our sisters and see how we circle the wagons.

The military/industrial complex is what it is.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Denton said:


> My supervisor has a juvvy felony. He was avionics in the Army. He was in Iraq.
> He has a good job and is surrounded by vets like me who take care of one another.
> Oh. That's something about joining the Brotherhood. We take care of one another.
> Brotherhood is gender-neutral, by the way. Cross one of our sisters and see how we circle the wagons.
> ...


As you'd said before, it probably was his choice for Army.....sort of. IIRC, recruiters came to the school for a 'career' day and it's possible Army may have been the only one there, not sure though. Since he's not fond of water or heights, he probably didn't bother with Navy or Air Force. Yes I know there are plenty of spots that don't put you on the water or in planes, but I'm not sure he fully realizes that.

And I'm not sure who did the severing.....if he told them no first or if they may have....because it all happened at the same time they found his record, which was after he had gotten his assignment for training in MO. Probably he did, since most if not all branches can overlook a young kid's stupid choice as long as it's not a repeat offender or a more serious crime.

Either way, it has to be his own choice and so far he's still looking for a civilian job......for now


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

JustAnotherNut said:


> Actually there is. Criminal record. And unfortunately when he was 11/12 pulled a stupid and costly stunt that gave him a class C felony. He broke several school windows with a friend. Final replacement costs were over $5000. I refused to pay for his choices and made him work it off to learn a lesson.


When I was a Navy recruiter, 96-99, I put in people that had felonys... The Navy can waiver certain felonys, and other crimes, especially if they were a minor. The whole expunged crap isnt really true, as we are able to get records. At least in South Carolina, on minors.
Every crime a person does, from speeding to manslaughter can be reviewed via BUPERS in TN. Trust me, there are some people that had done time. One of my co workers on a Submarine was ex Crip, shot and stabbed, time etc. He ended up retiring as an O5 after 30 years... 
Also, Marijuana. In the Navy, if you state you did it. Stick to that story the whole time. Just dont have it in your system for at least 2 months. If it is considered recreational, then you will more than likely be accepted. But, any crime you have, its still a waiver and some jobs may not be available to you.
Here is an odd one. You cant be a Military Police Dog handler if your appendix is gone? Something about disease that you can transfer to dog.
My point is, until said person goes to MEPPS, get looked at and screened, he will never know. Guidelines in the recruitmanual are always being changed.
PS, I put one person into the Navy that popped for THC in bootcamp for the Navy..


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Speaking of Army pay, as an E-5 with an additional $65/month combat pay and $13/month overseas pay I was making $335 per month. Total.
> This was 1970.


 Even at lower prices that was not much. Some here remember Honest johns rent to own furniture . And the we finance used car dealers , pawn shops out side post. Many here know some never will how you had to really work at getting by.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> in the 1960's the Army doctrine said every soldier is a rifleman first, regardless of MOS.
> And we were trained as such.'
> 
> In Vietnam, our Brigade commander praticed this, and even finance clerks got a turn on partol outside the wire.


 As it should be at all times.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Steve40th said:


> When I was a Navy recruiter, 96-99, I put in people that had felonys... The Navy can waiver certain felonys, and other crimes, especially if they were a minor. The whole expunged crap isnt really true, as we are able to get records. At least in South Carolina, on minors.
> Every crime a person does, from speeding to manslaughter can be reviewed via BUPERS in TN. Trust me, there are some people that had done time. One of my co workers on a Submarine was ex Crip, shot and stabbed, time etc. He ended up retiring as an O5 after 30 years...
> Also, Marijuana. In the Navy, if you state you did it. Stick to that story the whole time. Just dont have it in your system for at least 2 months. If it is considered recreational, then you will more than likely be accepted. But, any crime you have, its still a waiver and some jobs may not be available to you.
> Here is an odd one. You cant be a Military Police Dog handler if your appendix is gone? Something about disease that you can transfer to dog.
> ...


b

Yes, I'm sure exceptions can be made.....As for records being expunged, it doesn't happen automatically when they turn 18 like most people think. You have to get a lawyer and go to court to seal juvenile records. And da gubbamint (military) will find out anyway, cause nothing is hidden from them.

We have not went to court to seal his record......but it hasn't come up when he's applied for civilian jobs.....so maybe there's different levels of background checks, that most only catch what you've done as an adult vs a more thorough one that goes back further?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

JustAnotherNut said:


> Last year as #3 was finishing up his high school, he decided he was going to join the Army. OK if that's what he wants to do, I'll support him and I think it would be good for him and his future, since he has no clue what he really wants to do. It would give him the confidence, training and direction he needs because he's more of a dreamer than a doer. Great......until he said he was going to be a Combat Engineer, so he 'could blow sh*t up'. I tried to be supportive of his choice, but damn....the Mom side won and I panicked. That's my baby getting shot at and/or blown up and I wasn't fine with it after all. Didn't help this was only a few months after losing hubs and the prospect of losing him too (either literally or figuratively) was more than I was ready to handle. He said he had second thoughts & didn't go.
> 
> Fast forward to now and the subject has come up again. I'm sure he'd have to start all over from scratch and reapply, retake the tests which may provide more options of his interests, etc. As of now, he's talking Military Police, though he hasn't reapplied yet to know if he'd qualify.
> 
> ...


My Brother was in the Navy. He was going to join the Marinew when the Navy recruiter spotted him and convinced him if he joined the Navy instead he wouldnt need to learn how to March and could pick up more chicks. He said he really enjoyed his four years. He was stationed at Haiti for a while where he said the black ladies turned soldis white after you been there a while. He lost a stripe when he knocked a drunk Jyrene off the dock and into the barricuda infested water when the meanie tired to take his cute little sailor hat off his head.at Gitmo. .


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

He has since been offered a job installing and servicing high end appliances, with a small family owned company....and if he sticks with it, could eventually lead to getting his HVAC certifications/license. Which in a normal world of yesterdays would be a heck of a good career option. 

But in the current state of affairs, I'm wondering how those skills may be transferrable or used in a SHTF..........do any of you know or have such experience???


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

JustAnotherNut said:


> He has since been offered a job installing and servicing high end appliances, with a small family owned company....and if he sticks with it, could eventually lead to getting his HVAC certifications/license. Which in a normal world of yesterdays would be a heck of a good career option.
> 
> But in the current state of affairs, I'm wondering how those skills may be transferrable or used in a SHTF..........do any of you know or have such experience???


Absolutely a critical skill.
When our freezer went out, the VERY FIRST guy I called was an HVAC. The other freezer he fixed years ago is still running. He put in one part he had already on hand, and did not charge me one dime. He is now kept well supplied with eggs from the backyard.

In the near, and not so near, future I believe America will be forced to abandon the disposable product mentality get back to the WWII era concepts of making things last.
With products like refrigerators, AC units, freezers, etc becoming more expensive, and harder to find, HVAC techs will do well. ESPECIALLY working under the table on weekends.

HVAC is not easy, you have to be an electrician as well.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Absolutely a critical skill.
> When our freezer went out, the VERY FIRST guy I called was an HVAC. The other freezer he fixed years ago is still running. He put in one part he had already on hand, and did not charge me one dime. He is now kept well supplied with eggs from the backyard.
> 
> In the near, and not so near, future I believe America will be forced to abandon the disposable product mentality get back to the WWII era concepts of making things last.
> ...


True except if power goes out.........and union pay can be an easy 6 figures. But that would take him a few years to get to that level. Learning how to wire stuff up can be very useful


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Absolutely a critical skill.
> When our freezer went out, the VERY FIRST guy I called was an HVAC. The other freezer he fixed years ago is still running. He put in one part he had already on hand, and did not charge me one dime. He is now kept well supplied with eggs from the backyard.
> 
> In the near, and not so near, future I believe America will be forced to abandon the disposable product mentality get back to the WWII era concepts of making things last.
> ...


planned obsolescence


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## oldditchdoctor (Jan 1, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Absolutely a critical skill.
> When our freezer went out, the VERY FIRST guy I called was an HVAC. The other freezer he fixed years ago is still running. He put in one part he had already on hand, and did not charge me one dime. He is now kept well supplied with eggs from the backyard.
> 
> In the near, and not so near, future I believe America will be forced to abandon the disposable product mentality get back to the WWII era concepts of making things last.
> ...


Thank you brother, welcome home. My FIL was 3/9 USMC 1963-64. He was an S2 Scout Sniper.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Speaking of Army pay, as an E-5 with an additional $65/month combat pay and $13/month overseas pay I was making $335 per month. Total.
> This was 1970.


Damnit, that pisses me off.

Our damn government has spent so much money on useless crap and the vast number of taxpayer funded government employees who have gotten wealthy with huge benefits and retirement pensions and never did anything but be a pain in the ass to We The People and our government had the odacity to treat Wartime Soldiers like that?!?!?!

I was too young in 1970 to recollect any money earned, but around 1973 I began mowing/raking/maintaining neighbors yards and had a newspaper route. I think I made around $200 bucks a month. No one shot at me, I slept clean and dry in my bed and occasionally a pretty neighbor lady would serve me a glass of lemonade or sweet tea.

:vs_mad:


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Slippy said:


> Damnit, that pisses me off.
> 
> Our damn government has spent so much money on useless crap and the vast number of taxpayer funded government employees who have gotten wealthy with huge benefits and retirement pensions and never did anything but be a pain in the ass to We The People and our government had the odacity to treat Wartime Soldiers like that?!?!?!
> 
> ...


And to think the country wasn't protesting over you being there or spitting in your face for the hell you faced while there.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Let me chime in with my 2 cents. I went to military school and spent 5 years as a reserve officer. No one ever shot at me. All that said, I advise young people to carefully consider going into the military. I am EXTREMELY patriotic and rabidly support our soldiers. But since Vietnam our politicians treat our military people like shit. They have absolutely no regard for their lives but consider them as pawns to be sacrificed for political and monetary gain. They send them into shithole countries to defend interests that have no benefit for most American citizens.
They handicap our people with ridiculous ‘rules of engagement’. They spend tons of money on stupid shit like diversity training instead of buying modern equipment and providing them with training critical to their core missions. So yes, we need good soldiers, but beware before you enlist. You are putting your life in the hands of people that have ZERO regard for your safety and will sacrifice you in a second to protect their personal political and business interests.

Trump is different and has done much to protect and improve the lives of our soldiers. The Dems, on the other hand, will have us back in needless wars for stupid reasons if they gain control. Our troops will again be dying to benefit big business and corporate elites.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

In defense of the military (again)...as stated before, my Dad was making $18/month before WWII started. I'm not sure what he was making when he retired in 1973 as an E-9...forced retirement back then for a non-com, as he turned 55.

Most of the time we lived on base housing...quite comfortably. My parents had 4 kids and sent 3 through college. My Mom went back to work only when I (the youngest) was able to be trusted being alone after school. I was 8.

We always had what we needed. Grocery day was always on payday...every two weeks...and we never missed a meal. Always had 2 cars after my Mom went back to work.

One thing that I think was important to make all this happen.... my parents were committed to the kids PERIOD. They didn't go out and party. They sacrificed so the kids had what they needed. When my Dad was overseas...Labrador, Okinawa, Mactan Phillipines, Nam twice...he was back in his barracks at night. He wasn't a drinker/partier and stayed out of the NCO Club. He spent his nights reading or drawing schematics for some electronic gizmo he was going to make (and did) when he got home. I still have a lot of those schematics and Asian magazines with the plans (nothing in English).

He always had his little workshop in the corner of some room in the house and he was there...every night. My point being...he wasn't out spending money on wine, women and song.

I just checked for what Air Force pay is for an E9....



> Air Force Chief Master Sergeant Pay Calculator
> Starting pay for a Chief Master Sergeant is $5,472.90 per month, with raises for experience resulting in a maximum base pay of $8,497.50 per month.


Not bad.


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## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

As a military member who works with 5 of the 6 branches on a daily basis, please please please push him to talk to every different recruiter. Even just active duty members whos job isn't to rope people in, not just Army recruiters. 

I mean no offense whatsoever but 90% of the Army/Marines I ask "hey man hows it going, you staying in after your first tour?" is a "**** no, this is bullshit". We work in a much desired job/location so that isn't it. There is a reason Army has the biggest recruiting issues. Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and (I assume) Space Force all have good training programs in many fields. Hell I work in Intel/IT/cryptology and people have gotten out only after their first tour or two making six figures so you don't have to worry about "what do I do after the military?" if it isn't a career.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

PrepperLite said:


> As a military member who works with 5 of the 6 branches on a daily basis, please please please push him to talk to every different recruiter. Even just active duty members whos job isn't to rope people in, not just Army recruiters.
> 
> I mean no offense whatsoever but 90% of the Army/Marines I ask "hey man hows it going, you staying in after your first tour?" is a "**** no, this is bullshit". We work in a much desired job/location so that isn't it. There is a reason Army has the biggest recruiting issues. Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and (I assume) Space Force all have good training programs in many fields. Hell I work in Intel/IT/cryptology and people have gotten out only after their first tour or two making six figures so you don't have to worry about "what do I do after the military?" if it isn't a career.


I know growing up with a career Air Force Dad, the Army was always looked upon negatively. It just didn't seem they attracted the brightest. In their defense, the Army has and needs more personnel, so it's the law of averages. If I had to go in when I was 18 back in '73, the Army would have been my last choice.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

If it wasn’t for idealistic young men and women joining the military, we would not be the best country in the world.

I truly appreciate my younger Brothers and Sisters. Because of them this old man can sleep secure at night.

I did my time. Would I do it again? Let me put it this way - there’s not enough money in the world that would make me repeat my Vietnam service, but I am grateful to have experienced it. 
To be a member of a band of brothers that were willing to quite literally die for one another. That is something civilians will never have and actually can never understand.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I feel for my brothers...vietnam vets...now I am a vet of a war so long that people forgot it was a thing....I don't feel slighted.....I just feel disappointed. You are not worth the cost. 28 friends dead....its a hard decision point....but no....the America today isn't worthy of the loss.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

> .the America today isn't worthy of the loss.


I'm rarely at a loss for words.

I find myself guilty of that right now.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I love America.
The ideals that are America.
And I know the average American is OK.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I love America.
> The ideals that are America.
> And I know the average American is OK.


You are right RPD....but when good people do nothing, we get what we have now. All that evil men need is the indifference of his fellow man.


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## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

Spent the first 4 years in the Infantry and the the next 16 repairing and operating communication systems. After retiring from the Army I worked for one the cell phone companies. If I had to do it all again, I would. I tried to go back in after 9-11 but they told me that if the needed be they would give a call. Still waiting but I’m beginning to think it’s not going to happen (just kidding). I won’t pressure anyone to join the military under the present circumstances, but would sure support them if they wanted to join. One last thing, I’ve noticed that there seems to be a “connection” between those who have served that is missing between those who have and those who haven’t. Probably something to do with similar or shared experiences.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Old SF Guy said:


> You are right RPD....but when good people do nothing, we get what we have now. All that evil men need is the indifference of his fellow man.


Ahh, but I don't think I'll be the one to start shooting commies in the streets.
That didn't work well for Timothy McVeigh.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I will add my 2 cents. I went into the Army to be a tanker (19K). I wanted to be in combat arms and thought that playing with tanks would be fun. I also wanted to be stationed in Germany and get money for college so got the Army College Fund as well. I planned on college to guide me to a life career and not the military. Probably as important as anything else, I got away from home and the crowd that I was hanging out with. It was not out of the question that I would have ended up in prison at some point if I did not get away.
After my 4 year commitment was up, I discharged back home, but continued to serve in the National Guard and Army reserves for another 12 years.
My older Brother just retired from the Air Force as a Colonel after 33 years after starting off enlisted. He went to work right away for Lockhead Martin and had job offers from 3 others. He is making great money now. He said that there is a lot of money if you are an expert in nuclear weapons.
If I could do it over again, I would have went Air Force instead of Army and would have taken a path more like my Brother did. I am not saying that I have any big regrets, but could be in a much better place financially if I had.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

There is a bond between vets, and the bond between guys who served in the same unit in combat can not be described to civilians.


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