# What do You Personally Actually Do... not just read/talk about.



## tonybluegoat

About 7 years my wife and I bought a "homestead." What's a homestead, it's land that supports a diverse set of activities that all work together to support an independent lifestyle.

Garden/Farming, Small Animal Husbandry, Orchard, Water collection, Food Storage, Making your own products like soap and pottery, building, fencing, energy independence, medicine (traditional and modern), hunting, canning and preserving, etc.

I had read every homestead blog I could find, had dozens of books - both general and specific. It turned out that every homestead blog petered out after about 3 years and turned from a general homesteading blog into something else... what depended on the blogger.. or it just ended. I know why.

Homesteading is a dead end. Generalized self-sufficiency is a very expensive and impossible fantasy that has no basis in reality. We did it all, and have done it all. We did everything in the book over years of trying. It turns out you can't grow cell phone service or car insurance or gasoline (even though I did make ethanol/moonshine for a year). In the end it was all "possible" but none of it was "self-sufficient." It took so many inputs that had to be purchased it was easier and more logical to just purchase the final product.

That's why I went from a homesteading prepper to a storage prepper. How long will the emergency last? A year? Then store a year's worth of food, energy, have water collection, done... oh yea and guns/ammo. I have multiple of the same car, multiple of the same motorcycle, tractor, truck, all that. So just BUY IT!

*So here's the question. What prepper skills do you actually DO or HAVE DONE LONG ENOUGH that you are 100% confident that you have both the skills and resources to do them if you need to?*

*The next question is what do you KNOW based on ACTUAL FACTUAL experience that others (without the real experience) don't. 
*

I absolutely, positively know how to can food - particularly meat. It's my goto method of preservation. I've canned every type of meat from game to chicken. 3 times a year I can at least 100 lbs of meat at a time. It takes a lot of resources that if you don't already have them you are screwed. Energy, Big Canners, not the cheap junk, and lots of jars and lids already on hand.

I absolutely know how to raise goats, meat rabbits and chickens. But I also know that without FEED it is pretty much impossible to get any decent production. Of the three Goats are the most sustainable because they are the best at self-sufficiency... but I live in Texas where there is browse almost all year and no snow. The key resource to stockpile with goats is Wormer. They get worms pretty easily.

Finally, the actual factual thing I know that most people don't is that in the country there already exists a secondary economy beyond just bartering with your neighbors. There are multiple small animal auction houses and large animal auction houses that operate every week rain, shine or sleet. The most interesting one is the small animal auction. They sell everything from bags of potatoes to eggs to farm equipment to chickens, turkeys, goats and small cows. Plus thousands of more things. It is the place where you can BRING just about anything to sell and you can BUY just about anything (but guns). So in a true collapse there will be a working economy in the countryside. Money, no money, banks, no banks, the structure is already there and operates week in and week out. (look one up near you... they are fascinating). I have sold animals and bought lots of stuff at my local small animal auction house.

I also know that "homesteading" is a magazine fantasy that has no basis in reality. I don't think it ever did. The idea of being self sufficient as a family unit has never been true. The plains got homesteaded when the RAILROAD was laid. why? Because it could bring STUFF from other places and take farm produce TO other places for money. Homesteaders needed money and credit, manufactured goods, etc. just like everyone else. And they mostly just produced one or two products... just like having a job today. I guarantee they didn't make their own lye soap if they had an extra nickel for a bar of fragrant soap from the east. They made their own because they were mostly poor. Land rich, cash poor.

Thoughts?

Only stuff you, personally, do or have done to a pretty deep extent.

Here are pics from just one Spring on the homestead... stuff I actually do.








Raising "Naked Neck" chickens (called Turkens, large robust egg and meat birds... it was a bust)








Canning 50 lbs of chicken and stock - excellent results repeated often








Cutting wood to heat 100% wood based for the winter - it went really well I prefer wood heat and still do it, but my wife prefers electric heat (over wood or propane) so my winter electric bills aren't great... women! Funny story, that truckload of wood was given to me by a neighbor in exchange for a pie I made... a pie! Even though he has land he doesn't use wood heat. It turns out that most people who live in the country are all-electric. They aren't preppers. They are people with a job in town who want to be able to turn a thermostat on the wall.















I found it's easier to maintain a garden with a large tiller than with my giant tractor. It doesn't take much of a garden to make WAY MORE food than you can eat. If most people paid attention to how much it cost to garden and then preserve the food they might find (like I did) that it's cheaper and easier to just buy canned vegetables. Fresh Tomatoes, peppers and green beans are good. But you can literally grow those in your suburban back yard. 6 of each plant will probably produce more than you can eat over a summer.















lots of eggs for both eating and incubating. The idea of using chicken eggs or chickens as the basis of any sort of income is a dead end. You wouldn't think it but it is. Way too expensive to make and too hard to sell at any volume.

I'm out of attachments (only 7 allowed) I also milled my own wood and did other stuff. That was Spring of 2014.

The #1 prepper skill I developed over the past 7 years is the requirement to have very little MONEY. I call it being Poor on Purpose. I make money but I don't NEED money. Everything I own from my farm to my vehicles is paid for.... I have stockpiled the parts and skills necessary to keep what I have operational without money. I have food and energy required to live for a year on no cash. And no one is going to come try to foreclose. My property taxes are $308 per year. I always have the cash I need to get through a year if I can't work. In a non-emergency situation I can live on $800 per month - because I like to have cable TV and internet, etc. In an emergency where I have to cut back I can live on $450 per month. In a SHTF I can live on almost nothing and have enough cash on hand to cover whatever I can't ignore (like taxes and electricity - if it's still available).

My greatest fear was foreclosure, repossession or having an inability to sustain things because of debt. I fixed that problem. I know for many/most it's not an option they want to sacrifice for. But that doesn't mean you can't make a "lifeboat" that is paid off... a little land and a paid off RV to live on it.

I know a lady who was a prepper in the ghetto. Not inner city ghetto... the part of town where the poorest people live. She bought two vacant lots next to each other in a tax auction and she turned them into a homestead... composting toilet, animals, gardening, water collection. The whole 9 yards. I don't think it's sustainable in a "let's go shoot the lady with the chickens" type emergency. But it was interesting and she lived on almost no money.


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## hawgrider

> *About 7 years* my wife and I bought a "homestead." What's a homestead, it's land that supports a diverse set of activities that all work together to support an independent lifestyle.
> 
> Garden/Farming, Small Animal Husbandry, Orchard, Water collection, Food Storage, Making your own products like soap and pottery, building, fencing, energy independence, medicine (traditional and modern), hunting, canning and preserving, etc.
> 
> I had read every homestead blog I could find, had dozens of books - both general and specific. It turned out that every homestead blog petered out after about 3 years and turned from a general homesteading blog into something else... what depended on the blogger.. or it just ended. I know why.
> 
> *Homesteading is a dead end.* Generalized self-sufficiency is a very expensive and *impossible fantasy that has no basis in reality. *We did it all, and have done it all. We did everything in the book over years of trying. It turns out you can't grow cell phone service or car insurance or gasoline (even though I did make ethanol/moonshine for a year). In the end it was all "possible" but none of it was "self-sufficient." It took so many inputs that had to be purchased it was easier and more logical to just purchase the final product.
> 
> *That's why I went from a homesteading prepper to a storage prepper.* How long will the emergency last? A year? Then store a year's worth of food, energy, have water collection, done... oh yea and guns/ammo. I have multiple of the same car, multiple of the same motorcycle, tractor, truck, all that. *So just BUY IT!*


So you did 7 years of homesteading and failed. And you figure thats it nobody could possibly homestead without failure.

Thanks for the chuckle.


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## tonybluegoat

You are a Chuckle-head. For an old fart you sure are sensitive. Perhaps you should just ignore noobs... they are stupid and have nothing to add. Stick with the old men you already know and like. 

How many years of homesteading have you done. Spend a month not going to the store, ever, for anything. If you have share it. 

Oh no wait... you're scared someone will come steal your stuff.... go back in your hole. I'm going through your posts. It seems like what you have stockpiled the most are opinions and stupid pictures. Old men seem to like hoarding those. I like the one with the tar and feathers as a shelter. You must be the class clown.

oops. too pushy? damn it!

After reviewing more of your posts I get it... you think you're the Sheriff! (pathetic) Did you tattle on everyone in 2nd grade? Go ahead Barnie... you can troll along with my posts if you want. :vs_smirk: I would say you might learn something.. but some people never learn.


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## hawgrider

tonybluegoat said:


> You are a Chuckle-head. For an old fart you sure are sensitive. Perhaps you should just ignore noobs... they are stupid and have nothing to add. Stick with the old men you already know and like.
> 
> How many years of homesteading have you done. Spend a month not going to the store, ever, for anything. If you have share it.
> 
> Oh no wait... you're scared someone will come steal your stuff.... go back in your hole. I'm going through your posts. It seems like what you have stockpiled the most are opinions and stupid pictures. Old men seem to like hoarding those. I like the one with the tar and feathers as a shelter. You must be the class clown.
> 
> oops. too pushy? damn it!


Yes I have a sense of humor... don't like it.... Wah!

You come in here with a 7 year experience of failure and cut down the folks on this forum by insinuating nobody here has done anything? Nope you are right you're the smartest guy in the room nobody here has done the miraculous things you have done. You not only failed at homesteading for 7 years you fail at fitting in with the group. You don't have many friends do you.


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## soyer38301

So Mr. Bluegoat...you are saying that homesteading is impossible? That is what I am getting from your post. If so, are you stating that no one has ever successfully homesteaded?

Then how are we, the human race still here? What did people do before "stores" to just go buy what they need?

While I dont have a lot of personal experience yet, it has been done in the past, is currently being done, and will be done again. Sorry to burst your bubble...


Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## hawgrider

soyer38301 said:


> So Mr. Bluegoat...you are saying that homesteading is impossible? That is what I am getting from your post. If so, are you stating that no one has ever successfully homesteaded?
> 
> Then how are we, the human race still here? What did people do before "stores" to just go buy what they need?
> 
> While I dont have a lot of personal experience yet, it has been done in the past, is currently being done, and will be done again. Sorry to burst your bubble...
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


That is exactly what he said.

He figures he failed so it can't be done. So now he does nothing more than buy stuff and stock it. He wont last long with that skill set.

I can tell him why he failed at chickens by his picture of the eggs in his basket! But he doesn't deserve to know why or how I know why he failed at raising chickens for eggs.

Look at his egg basket and what do you see about the breeds of chickens he has and how many eggs a year those breeds lay is the hint.


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## tonybluegoat

I'm looking for someone who has done it... not who has an opinion about it... Opinions are like Hawgrinders (every forum's got one).

"Then how are we, the human race still here? What did people do before "stores" to just go buy what they need?

While I dont have a lot of personal experience yet, it has been done in the past, is currently being done, and will be done again. Sorry to burst your bubble..."

There have always been stores... That's what towns are... And the world has changed... you can't be a hunter/gatherer anymore. I know that some preppers have a fantasy about the complete collapse of everything and that they are going to king of the hill... History doesn't agree with that opinion. Entire nations have been bombed to rubble... there's still someone to arrest you, there are still people who distribute food.... There is never such a thing as a complete collapse. These aren't opinions (like Hawgrinder) this is based on actually reading dozens of actual history books on lots of different subjects.... not fantasy books about zombies.

There are no zombies. There have been thousands of earthquakes, volcanoes, financial collapses, wars, pestilences, political coups... through all the same elements still exists.

It's important to prepare. It's important to prepare for whatever you want to prepare for... but looking for people with real experience and not fantasy land experience is what I'm after. If I want to smoke a pork belly I'll ask Hawgrinder. He actually knows something about that. If I want to try to live a homesteader existence... so far I'll ask myself... because I haven't found any others who have actually done it.

THE SEARCH CONTINUES.... what have you actually done and what lessons would you like to share?


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## tonybluegoat

hawgrider said:


> That is exactly what he said.
> 
> He figures he failed so it can't be done. So now he does nothing more than buy stuff and stock it. He wont last long with that skill set.
> 
> I can tell him why he failed at chickens by his picture of the eggs in his basket! But he doesn't deserve to know why or how I know why he failed at raising chickens for eggs.
> 
> Look at his egg basket and what do you see about the breeds of chickens he has and how many eggs a year those breeds lay is the hint.



View attachment 82669

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STILL WAITING for someone to do something other than run their mouth....


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## hawgrider

Sums it up right here folks ^^ -


> While I don't have a lot of personal experience yet,


Zombies Really ? Wow you are out there!


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## soyer38301

Done...

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## hawgrider

tonybluegoat said:


> View attachment 82669
> 
> View attachment 82671
> 
> View attachment 82673
> 
> View attachment 82675
> 
> View attachment 82679
> 
> STILL WAITING for someone to do something other than run their mouth....


Thats better than a basket of pretty blue easter egger's and french copper maran eggs that don't lay for beans LOL!


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## tonybluegoat

Still waiting... results, not opinions





































I didn't come to this forum to listen to old men blather on about "liberals." And I didn't come here to listen to what people think they know.... I'm pushy? Push back.... What have you DONE.... WHAT ARE YOU GOOD AT.... What do you actually know from personal experience?

Gee I say I'm NOT Good at something that I have actually DONE. And the chicken heads want to tell me what I DON'T KNOW about it... when they haven't done it. Not even close...

Keep it coming... what have you actually DONE THAT CAN BE OF USE TO OTHERS ON THIS FORUM?


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## tonybluegoat

hawgrider said:


> Thats better than a basket of pretty blue easter egger's and french copper maran eggs that don't lay for beans LOL!


Do you know what copper Marans DO ACTUALLY DO? No, you don't. Because you haven't actually ever done anything with Copper Marans.

They SELL!!! you pontificating blowhard... They actually, factually SELL at the small animal auction for a price that makes it worthwhile to grow them... But you wouldn't know that. Because the internet and your lounge chair don't know what happens on a real HOMESTEAD... THAT IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO CREATE A RESULT.

Thanks for proving my point.

Ever been to an auction and actually sold food you made or animals you raised? I doubt it. I have!! Marans and Australorps make more money than Rhode Island Reds,... Yes.. you are an idiot. I just realized that the first response to my first post was YOU... and it was a snarky comment about Dallas. Do you know anything about Dallas... I doubt it.... Have you ever lived there? I'm sure not. But you chimed in right way. You are a child who has to tear other people down in order to feel good about yourself. You should be ashamed (but you have no shame). You seem old enough that your mother is probably dead. Good for her.. Save her the embarrassment that you have become...








(selling my stuff at the... wait for it... auction)

Still waiting.


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## Gator Monroe

I've done Initial CCW (Class & Range time with instructor ) 3 CCW Renewals (every 2 years with Class & Range time with Instructor ) Tactical Carbine fighting classes Level 1 and Level 2 (All at Mountain Tactical Training in French Gulch Ca. with Owner Instructor and Marine & Blackwater trained operator John Laws ) and 5 years of Militia (California State Militia /Northern California State Militia) reaching rank of Sergeant …)


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## tonybluegoat

Gator Monroe said:


> I've done Initial CCW (Class & Range time with instructor ) 3 CCW Renewals (every 2 years with Class & Range time with Instructor ) Tactical Carbine fighting classes Level 1 and Level 2 (All at Mountain Tactical Training in French Gulch Ca. with Owner Instructor and Marine & Blackwater trained operator John Laws ) and 5 years of Militia (California State Militia /Northern California State Militia) reaching rank of Sergeant &#8230


Thank you! So if I have questions about fighting with a gun I know someone who has actually done some training. I was in the Army but I was a Combat Engineer.. They didn't spend time teaching us how to fight. I do, however, know how to use explosives and clear landmines.

What did you learn that can't be learned by playing on the Internet?

If I were to guess something from Tac. Carb. is that's gear is heavy when you have to run around in the heat? Maybe I'm wrong.


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## hawgrider

tonybluegoat said:


> Do you know what copper Marans DO ACTUALLY DO? No, you don't. Because you haven't actually ever done anything with Copper Marans.
> 
> They SELL!!! you pontificating blowhard... They actually, factually SELL at the small animal auction for a price that makes it worthwhile to grow them... But you wouldn't know that. Because the internet and your lounge chair don't know what happens on a real HOMESTEAD... THAT IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO CREATE A RESULT.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point.
> 
> Ever been to an auction and actually sold food you made or animals you raised? I doubt it. I have!! Marans and Australorps make more money than Rhode Island Reds,... Yes.. you are an idiot.
> 
> View attachment 82693
> 
> (selling my stuff at the... wait for it... auction)
> 
> Still waiting.


Actually I do.

I have French copper marans the eggs are deliciously creamy. No Im afraid the idiot posted above my post.

I know why you failed.... you thought you could buy your way into your tainted idea of homesteading and you spent more money doing that than you could ever get in return therefore it was a failure for you. Sucks to be you!

Hmm yeah they sell for whoop tee doo 15 bucks a piece for POL(point of lay) big freakin deal! Most POL of 300 eggs a year breeds sell for 10 bucks a piece.

Whoa big money in Marans dipstick LMAO!


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## Gator Monroe

tonybluegoat said:


> Thank you! So if I have questions about fighting with a gun I know someone who has actually done some training. I was in the Army but I was a Combat Engineer.. They didn't spend time teaching us how to fight. I do, however, know how to use explosives and clear landmines.


I would recommend useful training , one thing I really want to do this Fall is a "Street Pistol " Class level 1 as the Level 2 class is super intensive and out of the box (Like the Tactical Carbine Fighting Level 2 was ,I went through that class with 2 Shasta County Sheriffs SWAT Members in a 3 Student class )


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## tonybluegoat

Gator Monroe said:


> I would recommend useful training , one thing I really want to do this Fall is a "Street Pistol " Class level 1 as the Level 2 class is super intensive and out of the box (Like the Tactical Carbine Fighting Level 2 was ,I went through that class with 2 Shasta County Sheriffs SWAT Members in a 3 Student class )


Very cool. How much did the classes cost? Were they 1 day or multi-day?


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## Illini Warrior

there's crossovers between prepping and homesteading >>> but they aren't interchangeable or even compatible sometimes - you can prep and be worlds apart from homesteading and vice versa ...


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## tonybluegoat

hawgrider said:


> Actually I do.
> 
> I have French copper marans the eggs are deliciously creamy. No Im afraid the idiot posted above my post.
> 
> I know why you failed.... you thought you could buy your way into your tainted idea of homesteading and you spent more money doing that than you could ever get in return therefore it was a failure for you. Sucks to be you!
> 
> Hmm yeah they sell for whoop tee doo 15 bucks a piece for POL(point of lay) big freakin deal! Most POL of 300 eggs a year breeds sell for 10 bucks a piece.
> 
> Whoa big money in Marans dipstick LMAO!


I'm guessing since I'm new I'm the only one who doesn't already know your deal. You've made it clear. You have Nothing to add... Time to ignore... bye bye :vs_wave:


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## Deebo

Two old bulls, standing on a hill...
One says "hey, you see all them cows down there? I'm going down there and screw one of them."
Other bull says "you go a head, I will go down there and screw ALL OF THEM"
You guys, should really ease up, obviously both of you have some very valid experience, and will but heads here and there, but in the end, I think we are all marching in the same direction, just to different beats.
I value all information, and at the same time, I love to watch a good fight, just as men do. As long as when its over, the winner shakes the loosers hand, and they both grow, then screw it, round four guys...
Lets go.


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## tonybluegoat

Illini Warrior said:


> there's crossovers between prepping and homesteading >>> but they aren't interchangeable or even compatible sometimes - you can prep and be worlds apart from homesteading and vice versa ...


That's what I found out! I thought the ultimate prep would be homesteading. What I found is that homesteading has lots of inputs that are just replacements for going to the store. Diesel for the tractor, feed for the animals, fertilizer, etc. The idea of making a closed loop where one provides what you need for the others is an expensive boondoggle. I raised meat rabbits - hundreds of them - to sell or to can as meat. You can't freerange them. If you feed them field clippings they get worms.

I built worm beds under the rabbit cages (books say it's good)... maybe... but it wasn't free and it created a real fly problem that wasn't worth the "worm castings".

The biggest thing it taught me is the difference between book/internet knowledge and actual experience. That's why I look for experience.









So now I'm more prepper and less homesteader (which is what I was before)... more storage, less production... more money input.. that sort of thing. I will say that living "in the country" with real resources is much better (I think) than the suburbs. More functional.


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## Gator Monroe

tonybluegoat said:


> Thank you! So if I have questions about fighting with a gun I know someone who has actually done some training. I was in the Army but I was a Combat Engineer.. They didn't spend time teaching us how to fight. I do, however, know how to use explosives and clear landmines.
> 
> What did you learn that can't be learned by playing on the Internet?
> 
> If I were to guess something from Tac. Carb. is that's gear is heavy when you have to run around in the heat? Maybe I'm wrong.


Wearing Level 4 Body Armor & Communication gear in an Area (Redding Region/Shasta County and Tehama County ) in Militia Training FTX activities year round (Summer Temps up to 118 and we had a Winter overnighter (Manned 2 Man Fighting positions we dug in Day Time temps in upper 60s and manned all night anticipating a Probing or Attack by other elements on a 24 degree low night ) Can you learn how to rappel down a Six Story Building on YouTube ? can you learn how go out in Rough Terrain on a moonless night and set up a night ambush with two fire teams (One of which is yours ) and have 6 other fire teams in two groups come from two other areas at differing times come search for you not knowing where you are ? The Hands on Training with instruction from Former Military and Law Enforcement or both was really squared away ,and we Marched in Redding Rodeo Parade with 65 Marchers in Uniform behind Mounted Color Guard and we Served Thanksgiving dinners in Uniform to the needy at the Mission in Redding , and we Liaised with the Sheriffs of 4Counties on Search & Rescue (Siskiyou , Shasta , Tehama , ...


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## tonybluegoat

Deebo said:


> Two old bulls, standing on a hill...
> One says "hey, you see all them cows down there? I'm going down there and screw one of them."
> Other bull says "you go a head, I will go down there and screw ALL OF THEM"
> You guys, should really ease up, obviously both of you have some very valid experience, and will but heads here and there, but in the end, I think we are all marching in the same direction, just to different beats.
> I value all information, and at the same time, I love to watch a good fight, just as men do. As long as when its over, the winner shakes the loosers hand, and they both grow, then screw it, round four guys...
> Lets go.


Look at his post history... he starts these fights, particularly with new members. So he is either running people off, he is making them become ghosts, or he is creating fights. Somebody needs to tell him to learn how to share the toys.


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## tonybluegoat

Gator Monroe said:


> Wearing Level 4 Body Armor & Communication gear in an Area (Redding Region/Shasta County and Tehama County ) in Militia Training FTX activities year round (Summer Temps up to 118 and we had a Winter overnighter (Manned 2 Man Fighting positions we dug in Day Time temps in upper 60s and manned all night anticipating a Probing or Attack by other elements on a 24 degree low night ) Can you learn how to rappel down a Six Story Building on YouTube ? can you learn how go out in Rough Terrain on a moonless night and set up a night ambush with two fire teams (One of which is yours ) and have 6 other fire teams in two groups come from two other areas at differing times come search for you not knowing where you are ? The Hands on Training with instruction from Former Military and Law Enforcement or both was really squared away ,and we Marched in Redding Rodeo Parade with 65 Marchers in Uniform behind Mounted Color Guard and we Served Thanksgiving dinners in Uniform to the needy at the Mission in Redding , and we Liaised with the Sheriffs of 4Counties on Search & Rescue (Siskiyou , Shasta , Tehama , ...


I love it!! I couldn't agree more. Bug out... in a rainstorm. Hike at night... with no flashlight. Camp for 3 days with no fire...

I know I sound like I think I've done everything.. but I know what you're talking about. Sounds like Bivouack at the end of Army Basic. Minus the CS gas attack...

(excuse me I just did something stupid an broke a water line gong to one of my building... where's the shovel?)


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## hawgrider

tonybluegoat said:


> Look at his post history... he starts these fights, particularly with new members. So he is either running people off, he is making them become ghosts, or he is creating fights. Somebody needs to tell him to learn how to share the toys.


Your history here is short and aggressive.

So for every action there is a reaction and you Mr Wizard got just a little taste of reaction. Keep up the good work !


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## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> That's what I found out! I thought the ultimate prep would be homesteading. What I found is that homesteading has lots of inputs that are just replacements for going to the store. Diesel for the tractor, feed for the animals, fertilizer, etc. The idea of making a closed loop where one provides what you need for the others is an expensive boondoggle. I raised meat rabbits - hundreds of them - to sell or to can as meat. You can't freerange them. If you feed them field clippings they get worms.
> 
> I built worm beds under the rabbit cages (books say it's good)... maybe... but it wasn't free and it created a real fly problem that wasn't worth the "worm castings".
> 
> The biggest thing it taught me is the difference between book/internet knowledge and actual experience. That's why I look for experience.
> 
> View attachment 82695
> 
> 
> So now I'm more prepper and less homesteader (which is what I was before)... more storage, less production... more money input.. that sort of thing. I will say that living "in the country" with real resources is much better (I think) than the suburbs. More functional.


In a perfect world, we'd all be homesteaders who were prepping. Sadly, we don't live in that world. Some of us live in neighborhoods, appartments, etc. We prep the best we can without having land, preferably land miles away from the nearest town.


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## Smitty901

What he fails to understand is some of us are 3rd generation on the land. 3 generations of both living in the past, present , and currently working toward the future. What seems like work to some is just another day.
The Blackberry's are producing well, and they are good.


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## Gator Monroe

Smitty901 said:


> What he fails to understand is some of us are 3rd generation on the land. 3 generations of both living in the past, present , and currently working toward the future. What seems like work to some is just another day.


Totally , the Military stuff was new to me ,but I hung in there and learned from folks like (A big German/American Lady who was US Army and a Guard at San Quentin ) She knew how to search people and find s*** they did not want found , a young Combat Marine who just months earlier was in the Sandbox , An older Retired Oakland California Parole Officer with thousands of arrests , 5th Generation Ranchers ,... Working with hundreds of folks from varying backgrounds ,One of our Leaders was Former Air Force Lawyer and a County Supervisor .


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## Smitty901

Gator Monroe said:


> Totally , the Military stuff was new to me ,but I hung in there and learned from folks like (A big German/American Lady who was US Army and a Guard at San Quentin ) She knew how to search people and find s*** they did not want found , a young Combat Marine who just months earlier was in the Sandbox , An older Retired Oakland California Parole Officer with thousands of arrests , 5th Generation Ranchers ,... Working with hundreds of folks from varying backgrounds ,One of our Leaders was Former Air Force Lawyer and a County Supervisor .


 23 years 11B. I can say that a lot of changes in what we did and did not do happened over the years. Education requirements changed , skills. I know that skills LEO use state side are not as effective in a military environment. It would take a long thread to beat that topic to a close.
But if you break it down to the basics, not much has changed. Old skills are better than no skills. Flawed skills can be improved . But no skills will never get the chance.


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## Gator Monroe

Smitty901 said:


> 23 years 11B. I can say that a lot of changes in what we did and did not do happened over the years. Education requirements changed , skills. I know that skills LEO use state side are not as effective in a military environment. It would take a long thread to beat that topic to a close.
> But if you break it down to the basics, not much has changed. Old skills are better than no skills. Flawed skills can be improved . But no skills will never get the chance.


We learned how to handle Prisoners (Detain People) and how to Set up Road Blocks (With Sniper Overwatch) and really search vehicles ,I know some posters at forum/boards rail against such concepts but we trained for SHTF and Societal Issues (Including collapse) but most of our stuff was Defensive .


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## jimb1972

I do a lot of canning as well, although I generally do more stews and soups. Straight meat like chicken seems like a lot of work without a lot of jars on the shelf as a result. 10# of chicken hindquarters only got me about 6 pints of chicken! I do more curing of meat than canning "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing" by Rytek Kutas is an awesome resource for stuff you will want to eat in any situation either good or bad.


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## tonybluegoat

Denton said:


> In a perfect world, we'd all be homesteaders who were prepping. Sadly, we don't live in that world. Some of us live in neighborhoods, appartments, etc. We prep the best we can without having land, preferably land miles away from the nearest town.


I know. That's why I said I lived in Dallas. I love the idea of city/suburban prepping... I probably did it wrong. I just had a room full of food and stuff.

What's something you actually learned that isn't obvious based on personal experience?


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## tonybluegoat

Smitty901 said:


> 23 years 11B. I can say that a lot of changes in what we did and did not do happened over the years. Education requirements changed , skills. I know that skills LEO use state side are not as effective in a military environment. It would take a long thread to beat that topic to a close.
> But if you break it down to the basics, not much has changed. Old skills are better than no skills. Flawed skills can be improved . But no skills will never get the chance.


23 years... you did a lot of training... I think we would agree that skill #1 is just being able to move from point A to point B without a car, or passing out. I know you know this, in basic we walked around with our AR-15's over our heads for a week at least... just basic strength. My guess is you spend a lot more time not fighting than fighting.

How would you go about securing a suburban home against armed intruders? Tactically.


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## tonybluegoat

Smitty901 said:


> What he fails to understand is some of us are 3rd generation on the land. 3 generations of both living in the past, present , and currently working toward the future. What seems like work to some is just another day.
> The Blackberry's are producing well, and they are good.


Thank you. Do you farm blackberries?


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## tonybluegoat

jimb1972 said:


> I do a lot of canning as well, although I generally do more stews and soups. Straight meat like chicken seems like a lot of work without a lot of jars on the shelf as a result. 10# of chicken hindquarters only got me about 6 pints of chicken! I do more curing of meat than canning "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing" by Rytek Kutas is an awesome resource for stuff you will want to eat in any situation either good or bad.


Question? I tried to can chicken soup and the noodles turned to mush. In the end I just canned chicken in one jar, stock in another, and figured I would incorporate the noodles from dry stock. What stew recipe for canning do you like best?

You actually got a little more than average out of your leg quarters. 100 lbs of leg quarters normally makes 50 pints for me, and 30 quarts of stock. But I've found them for as low as $2.90 or $3.60 for a 10 lb bag, so I get 100. If I can straight thighs for $0.69 per lb or even $0.89 I prefer it. I get twice the canned meat (almost) from thighs, so the extra cost is worth it. I don't can white meat. I prefer dark meat and think the extra fat is useful in a survival situation.


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## tonybluegoat

hawgrider said:


> Your history here is short and aggressive.
> 
> So for every action there is a reaction and you Mr Wizard got just a little taste of reaction. Keep up the good work !


To quote "Guardians of the Galaxy"... "I don't think anyone is 100% a dick." I'm sure you can probably add useful information to discussions. So far that hasn't been shown, but based on what you said about the chickens I have no doubt you have experience.

Try... "That's interesting, my experiences have been different. Here's what I did." instead of "... fill in everything you've said on this thread so far..."

I'm not going anywhere and I think we might be able to get along if we do a reset.


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## tonybluegoat

Gator Monroe said:


> We learned how to handle Prisoners (Detain People) and how to Set up Road Blocks (With Sniper Overwatch) and really search vehicles ,I know some posters at forum/boards rail against such concepts but we trained for SHTF and Societal Issues (Including collapse) but most of our stuff was Defensive .


Did you see my first post on "how you will die on your bugout" I know it's a bit fantasy extreme. I never actually did anything like that in the military. What are your thoughts on driving cross country in an SUV full of preps and the wife and kids in the car. Can you shoot it out? What would you watch out for?


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## hawgrider

tonybluegoat said:


> To quote "Guardians of the Galaxy"... "I don't think anyone is 100% a dick." I'm sure you can probably add useful information to discussions. So far that hasn't been shown, but based on what you said about the chickens I have no doubt you have experience.
> 
> Try... "That's interesting, my experiences have been different. Here's what I did." instead of "... fill in everything you've said on this thread so far..."
> 
> I'm not going anywhere and I think we might be able to get along if we do a reset.


Time will tell.

"Remember for every action there is a reaction."

I'm not the only one who will give you grief for being aggressive and demanding while knocking the forums experience and education. I was just the first to make you aware of it.


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## tonybluegoat

hawgrider said:


> Time will tell.
> 
> "Remember for every action there is a reaction."
> 
> I'm not the only one who will give you grief for being aggressive and demanding while knocking the forums experience and education. I was just the first to make you aware of it.


I'm aware.... now what do you have to add... other than my awareness? Sheriff.

Time will tell on you too, pumpkin.

:tango_face_smile:


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## Smitty901

tonybluegoat said:


> 23 years... you did a lot of training... I think we would agree that skill #1 is just being able to move from point A to point B without a car, or passing out. I know you know this, in basic we walked around with our AR-15's over our heads for a week at least... just basic strength. My guess is you spend a lot more time not fighting than fighting.
> 
> How would you go about securing a suburban home against armed intruders? Tactically.


 A soldier must be able to Shoot, move and communicate. A home owners first action is defend. Have a really Good Dog or two. A smart one not necessarily a mean one.
" securing a suburban home against armed intruders" first thing I would do is get the heck out of the burbs. It that is not possible. Good Dog. good locks , good doors and keep the Plant life cut back so you ave a good view.
Today's lesson a really good Dog is a valuable asset.


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## tonybluegoat

Smitty901 said:


> A soldier must be able to Shoot, move and communicate. A home owners first action is defend. Have a really Good Dog or two. A smart one not necessarily a mean one.
> " securing a suburban home against armed intruders" first thing I would do is get the heck out of the burbs. It that is not possible. Good Dog. good locks , good doors and keep the Plant life cut back so you ave a good view.
> Today's lesson a really good Dog is a valuable asset.


That's funny. Here's why. 10 years ago I called a buddy of mine and said "Hey, I just got this new home defense shotgun. I'm all set." He said, "OK."
An hour later I heard a car alarm keep beeping outside. I was in the bedroom. I looked out the window at the car then I walked out of the bedroom into the living room. When I turned the corner my buddy punched me in the back of the head.

(he was beeping his car alarm with his key fob from inside my house)

He was in the house because I generally don't lock my doors. SUBURBAN WHITE GUY.

He said, "No gun can help you because you're an idiot." Then he walked me around my house and said all the same things you just said. 
At one time he robbed houses... in his mis-spent youth of course..

Bushes give him somewhere to work on the window without being seen from the street.
I had no dog at the time... Later I got a mastiff. The next guy who came in the house without me at the door (an AC guy I said "Come on in" over the phone because I was in the bathroom) got pinned up against the wall 5 feet inside the door.

Now they have these autolocking dead bolts that automatically lock. AS long as they can be used in a blackout I'm OK with that. I need them... I still don't lock my doors... ever. But I do have dogs.


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## Gator Monroe

tonybluegoat said:


> Did you see my first post on "how you will die on your bugout" I know it's a bit fantasy extreme. I never actually did anything like that in the military. What are your thoughts on driving cross country in an SUV full of preps and the wife and kids in the car. Can you shoot it out? What would you watch out for?


If it all goes Down I will no doubt NEVER see my Daughter (Only Biological Child) and my two Grandsons 4 and 10 EVER AGAIN . (I'm in Far Nor Cal and they are in New Jersey ) so I will say again "What was learned in the Balkan Wars was that Large Armed & Committed Groups survived , small Groups and Individuals died " and Traveling long distances alone or in a small group is suicide ...


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## tonybluegoat

Gator Monroe said:


> If it all goes Down I will no doubt NEVER see my Daughter (Only Biological Child) and my two Grandsons 4 and 10 EVER AGAIN . (I'm in Far Nor Cal and they are in New Jersey ) so I will say again "What was learned in the Balkan Wars was that Large Armed & Committed Groups survived , small Groups and Individuals died " and Traveling long distances alone or in a small group is suicide ...


Thank you! (where's that dancing icon?) :vs_bananasplit:

"Traveling long distances alone or in a small group is suicide." That's the lesson I learned today. Life is good.


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## tonybluegoat

Gator Monroe said:


> If it all goes Down I will no doubt NEVER see my Daughter (Only Biological Child) and my two Grandsons 4 and 10 EVER AGAIN . (I'm in Far Nor Cal and they are in New Jersey ) so I will say again "What was learned in the Balkan Wars was that Large Armed & Committed Groups survived , small Groups and Individuals died " and Traveling long distances alone or in a small group is suicide ...


If you HAD TO get from your suburban house to a bugout location 2 hours away... obviously all situations are different... thoughts?

Wait for a large group to head that way? Sit off to the side of the highway until a State Trooper drives by and tail him as far as you can? I think it would be better to travel very early morning (3-5 a.m.) It seems like everyone is asleep at that time... even the bad guys. I know even the firewatch in our barracks was generally "head on the desk" by 4 am.

My son and his wife and kid live in Dallas - 2 hours away... You sound like the right guy to ask. Staying in the suburbs with no preps is a non-started so they will be coming if they can. I'm assuming cars still work.

P.S. the other thing I got from your post is to Be Nice To My Neighbors. I think we have a very defensible square mile of land. Most of the people inside that area are related and we all know each other pretty well. "Large Committed Group" theory.


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## hawgrider

tonybluegoat said:


> I'm aware.... now what do you have to add... other than my awareness? Sheriff.
> 
> Time will tell on you too, pumpkin.
> 
> :tango_face_smile:


Everyone here already knows I'm an a hole they almost expect it.

I'll add what I like when I like it. Not because you demand it thats where this started. People have and will share when they want. Its all here all you have to do is look for it.

Now try that reset button you speak of and do some reading and get to know the group before running yer yap that is what I will share with you for now.


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## jimb1972

tonybluegoat said:


> Question? I tried to can chicken soup and the noodles turned to mush. In the end I just canned chicken in one jar, stock in another, and figured I would incorporate the noodles from dry stock. What stew recipe for canning do you like best?
> 
> You actually got a little more than average out of your leg quarters. 100 lbs of leg quarters normally makes 50 pints for me, and 30 quarts of stock. But I've found them for as low as $2.90 or $3.60 for a 10 lb bag, so I get 100. If I can straight thighs for $0.69 per lb or even $0.89 I prefer it. I get twice the canned meat (almost) from thighs, so the extra cost is worth it. I don't can white meat. I prefer dark meat and think the extra fat is useful in a survival situation.


I like chicken or pork chili best, but I also do ham and bean soup, and chicken gumbo. Beans do a lot better than rice or noodles if you only cook them until they start to soften before canning. I have not had much luck with noodles, but rice added uncooked to the stew or gumbo sparingly only comes out a bit mushy. Fully cooked rice will turn into a white paste in the bottom of the jar.


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## tonybluegoat

jimb1972 said:


> I like chicken or pork chili best, but I also do ham and bean soup, and chicken gumbo. Beans do a lot better than rice or noodles if you only cook them until they start to soften before canning. I have not had much luck with noodles, but rice added uncooked to the stew or gumbo sparingly only comes out a bit mushy. Fully cooked rice will turn into a white paste in the bottom of the jar.


Cool. Makes sense. It would also be a useful way to prep some of the dry beans I keep for easier consumption.


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## RJAMES

I produce more beef than I could ever eat, same with my goats, chickens/eggs and hogs. I make several thousand a year and eat very well. I admit to being lazy and trading or buying some produce but I do have a garden and an orchard. Routinely can , dehydrate and freeze. 

I do buy chicken feed, worm medicine and salt blocks. There is a fine line with chickens / eggs and cost of feed. With housing cost I do not think there is a point where you make money. I buy Diesel for the truck and tractor. Some propane , gas for chainsaws . My neighbors - several hundred in a 40 mile radius use horses for farming and traveling locally. They have harness shops , wagon and implement shops. 

Been lazy with welding as I have a really good welder I trade work with. 

Most homesteads need a cash enterprise - quilts or some other craft to sell, sell excess meats, cheese, eggs, milk, bake goods or fruits. You just cannot be 100 percent self sufficient . Now days property taxes, internet, cable TV and phones are nice to have but cost a lot. 

I am very well set for the things that are likely to occur. As long as it rains and the sun shines I am good have not worked a regular job in 
three years but that is not to say I do not work. Just no 9 to 5 or withholding tax since most is barter or cash. I retired from the army in 2001 then worked 9 years till 2010 before taking a break for 2 years then back to work part time 2012 to 2015. My going back to work was so I could buy new vehicles for the grand kids. 

The biggest issue with homesteading as a life style is health insurance . How people pay for that is beyond me .


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## Sasquatch

> So here's the question. What prepper skills do you actually DO or HAVE DONE LONG ENOUGH that you are 100% confident that you have both the skills and resources to do them if you need to?
> 
> The next question is what do you KNOW based on ACTUAL FACTUAL experience that others (without the real experience) don't.


Hmmmm? This is a little tough to answer since I am fairly new to prepping. I've been hiking/camping/shooting for a long time so I guess I have those down pretty well. Storing food and water I think I have down as well. I've been learning to can food. I've taken quite a few basic first aid classes so the basics are covered. But really I, like many others here, came to this site to learn. So I take knowledge from people I trust here. The reason I trust some people here is because I have been here long enough to get to know them, at least as well as you can get to know someone online. One thing I absolutely know 100% from ACTUAL FACTUAL experience is if you need to find a new group of people for whatever reason coming in like a bull in a china shop, TALKING LOUDLY and making demands you aren't going to get very far with the group.

My .02


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## bigwheel

tonybluegoat said:


> About 7 years my wife and I bought a "homestead." What's a homestead, it's land that supports a diverse set of activities that all work together to support an independent lifestyle.
> 
> Garden/Farming, Small Animal Husbandry, Orchard, Water collection, Food Storage, Making your own products like soap and pottery, building, fencing, energy independence, medicine (traditional and modern), hunting, canning and preserving, etc.
> 
> I had read every homestead blog I could find, had dozens of books - both general and specific. It turned out that every homestead blog petered out after about 3 years and turned from a general homesteading blog into something else... what depended on the blogger.. or it just ended. I know why.
> 
> Homesteading is a dead end. Generalized self-sufficiency is a very expensive and impossible fantasy that has no basis in reality. We did it all, and have done it all. We did everything in the book over years of trying. It turns out you can't grow cell phone service or car insurance or gasoline (even though I did make ethanol/moonshine for a year). In the end it was all "possible" but none of it was "self-sufficient." It took so many inputs that had to be purchased it was easier and more logical to just purchase the final product.
> 
> That's why I went from a homesteading prepper to a storage prepper. How long will the emergency last? A year? Then store a year's worth of food, energy, have water collection, done... oh yea and guns/ammo. I have multiple of the same car, multiple of the same motorcycle, tractor, truck, all that. So just BUY IT!
> 
> *So here's the question. What prepper skills do you actually DO or HAVE DONE LONG ENOUGH that you are 100% confident that you have both the skills and resources to do them if you need to?*
> 
> *The next question is what do you KNOW based on ACTUAL FACTUAL experience that others (without the real experience) don't.
> *
> 
> I absolutely, positively know how to can food - particularly meat. It's my goto method of preservation. I've canned every type of meat from game to chicken. 3 times a year I can at least 100 lbs of meat at a time. It takes a lot of resources that if you don't already have them you are screwed. Energy, Big Canners, not the cheap junk, and lots of jars and lids already on hand.
> 
> I absolutely know how to raise goats, meat rabbits and chickens. But I also know that without FEED it is pretty much impossible to get any decent production. Of the three Goats are the most sustainable because they are the best at self-sufficiency... but I live in Texas where there is browse almost all year and no snow. The key resource to stockpile with goats is Wormer. They get worms pretty easily.
> 
> Finally, the actual factual thing I know that most people don't is that in the country there already exists a secondary economy beyond just bartering with your neighbors. There are multiple small animal auction houses and large animal auction houses that operate every week rain, shine or sleet. The most interesting one is the small animal auction. They sell everything from bags of potatoes to eggs to farm equipment to chickens, turkeys, goats and small cows. Plus thousands of more things. It is the place where you can BRING just about anything to sell and you can BUY just about anything (but guns). So in a true collapse there will be a working economy in the countryside. Money, no money, banks, no banks, the structure is already there and operates week in and week out. (look one up near you... they are fascinating). I have sold animals and bought lots of stuff at my local small animal auction house.
> 
> I also know that "homesteading" is a magazine fantasy that has no basis in reality. I don't think it ever did. The idea of being self sufficient as a family unit has never been true. The plains got homesteaded when the RAILROAD was laid. why? Because it could bring STUFF from other places and take farm produce TO other places for money. Homesteaders needed money and credit, manufactured goods, etc. just like everyone else. And they mostly just produced one or two products... just like having a job today. I guarantee they didn't make their own lye soap if they had an extra nickel for a bar of fragrant soap from the east. They made their own because they were mostly poor. Land rich, cash poor.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Only stuff you, personally, do or have done to a pretty deep extent.
> 
> Here are pics from just one Spring on the homestead... stuff I actually do.
> 
> View attachment 82655
> 
> Raising "Naked Neck" chickens (called Turkens, large robust egg and meat birds... it was a bust)
> 
> View attachment 82657
> 
> Canning 50 lbs of chicken and stock - excellent results repeated often
> 
> View attachment 82659
> 
> Cutting wood to heat 100% wood based for the winter - it went really well I prefer wood heat and still do it, but my wife prefers electric heat (over wood or propane) so my winter electric bills aren't great... women! Funny story, that truckload of wood was given to me by a neighbor in exchange for a pie I made... a pie! Even though he has land he doesn't use wood heat. It turns out that most people who live in the country are all-electric. They aren't preppers. They are people with a job in town who want to be able to turn a thermostat on the wall.
> 
> View attachment 82661
> 
> View attachment 82663
> 
> I found it's easier to maintain a garden with a large tiller than with my giant tractor. It doesn't take much of a garden to make WAY MORE food than you can eat. If most people paid attention to how much it cost to garden and then preserve the food they might find (like I did) that it's cheaper and easier to just buy canned vegetables. Fresh Tomatoes, peppers and green beans are good. But you can literally grow those in your suburban back yard. 6 of each plant will probably produce more than you can eat over a summer.
> 
> View attachment 82665
> 
> View attachment 82667
> 
> lots of eggs for both eating and incubating. The idea of using chicken eggs or chickens as the basis of any sort of income is a dead end. You wouldn't think it but it is. Way too expensive to make and too hard to sell at any volume.
> 
> I'm out of attachments (only 7 allowed) I also milled my own wood and did other stuff. That was Spring of 2014.
> 
> The #1 prepper skill I developed over the past 7 years is the requirement to have very little MONEY. I call it being Poor on Purpose. I make money but I don't NEED money. Everything I own from my farm to my vehicles is paid for.... I have stockpiled the parts and skills necessary to keep what I have operational without money. I have food and energy required to live for a year on no cash. And no one is going to come try to foreclose. My property taxes are $308 per year. I always have the cash I need to get through a year if I can't work. In a non-emergency situation I can live on $800 per month - because I like to have cable TV and internet, etc. In an emergency where I have to cut back I can live on $450 per month. In a SHTF I can live on almost nothing and have enough cash on hand to cover whatever I can't ignore (like taxes and electricity - if it's still available).
> 
> My greatest fear was foreclosure, repossession or having an inability to sustain things because of debt. I fixed that problem. I know for many/most it's not an option they want to sacrifice for. But that doesn't mean you can't make a "lifeboat" that is paid off... a little land and a paid off RV to live on it.
> 
> I know a lady who was a prepper in the ghetto. Not inner city ghetto... the part of town where the poorest people live. She bought two vacant lots next to each other in a tax auction and she turned them into a homestead... composting toilet, animals, gardening, water collection. The whole 9 yards. I don't think it's sustainable in a "let's go shoot the lady with the chickens" type emergency. But it was interesting and she lived on almost no money.


I mostly sit around having fun discussing prepping with real preppers such as yoursef. I actually dont do much prepping over here but have quite a bit of hardware and software and a few cans of canned beef. I thought we had 10 k gallons of drinking water in the small cement pond but some smarty pants say a few years back..the stablizers in the chlorine tabs with fry your kidneys and livers etc. REally let the air out of my sails. So I gave up. We are saving the last few rounds for ourselves.


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## Jammer Six

tonybluegoat said:


> THE SEARCH CONTINUES.... what have you actually done and what lessons would you like to share?


Hire someone to dig the ditches.


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## bigwheel

Jammer Six said:


> Hire someone to dig the ditches.


We dont dig no steenken ditches over here. That is why the Lord gave us undocumented democrats.


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## Jammer Six

bigwheel said:


> We dont dig no steenken ditches over here. That is why the Lord gave us undocumented democrats.


That was actually pretty funny. :vs_laugh:

If you don't need any ditches dug, you probably need some filled in. It always seems to be one or the other. It can never just be a peaceful Saturday.


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## jimb1972

Jammer Six said:


> Hire someone to dig the ditches.


You are on a roll, that's two days in a row that I can agree with one of your posts.


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## Jammer Six

It's not about what you can do. That's an extremely limited view with a very short life expectancy.

I don't know anything about farms, hogs or cattle. But I know how to walk out into the woods and create a watertight roof, start to finish. And RJAMES produces more meat than he can possibly eat. I'm sure we can come to an arrangement where we both sleep out of the rain and eat meat. The rest is detail.

It's worked for thousands of years.


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## rice paddy daddy

Well, don't need gasoline for mobility, if it comes to that we've got the horses.
Refrigeration? Electricity? Running water? These are all luxuries I learned to do without in the combat zone. Don't really NEED them for bare bones living, nice to have though.
Winter heat? We live in Florida.
Food? We raise it and grow it.

Nope. Ain't worried.
And frankly don't give a damn what someone may label me. Prepper? Homesteader? Who cares.


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## Jammer Six

tonybluegoat said:


> I'm not going anywhere and ...


Not the way I'd bet.


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## tonybluegoat

RJAMES said:


> I produce more beef than I could ever eat, same with my goats, chickens/eggs and hogs. I make several thousand a year and eat very well. I admit to being lazy and trading or buying some produce but I do have a garden and an orchard. Routinely can , dehydrate and freeze.
> 
> I do buy chicken feed, worm medicine and salt blocks. There is a fine line with chickens / eggs and cost of feed. With housing cost I do not think there is a point where you make money. I buy Diesel for the truck and tractor. Some propane , gas for chainsaws . My neighbors - several hundred in a 40 mile radius use horses for farming and traveling locally. They have harness shops , wagon and implement shops.
> 
> Been lazy with welding as I have a really good welder I trade work with.
> 
> Most homesteads need a cash enterprise - quilts or some other craft to sell, sell excess meats, cheese, eggs, milk, bake goods or fruits. You just cannot be 100 percent self sufficient . Now days property taxes, internet, cable TV and phones are nice to have but cost a lot.
> 
> I am very well set for the things that are likely to occur. As long as it rains and the sun shines I am good have not worked a regular job in
> three years but that is not to say I do not work. Just no 9 to 5 or withholding tax since most is barter or cash. I retired from the army in 2001 then worked 9 years till 2010 before taking a break for 2 years then back to work part time 2012 to 2015. My going back to work was so I could buy new vehicles for the grand kids.
> 
> The biggest issue with homesteading as a life style is health insurance . How people pay for that is beyond me .


Very cool. It's not that complicated. Sounds like you're in a flow.

$23,000 That's how you pay for health insurance. Make your taxable income $23,000. It's easy now that Trump made the standard deduction $24,000 for a couple. Not exactly $23k, make an odd number. Why? That will qualify you for Obamacare rebates. Get a silver plan not a bronze. At a taxable claimed income of $23k and some change that gets you high enough to not qualify for Medicare (which many states don't do) but low enough to qualify for the highest Obamacare subsidies. My premiums (for me and my wife) were $15 per month with a per person deductible of $500 and a total family out of pocket of $1,000.

Let's say you work part time and make $18,000 per year... bump it up on your taxes to $23k and some change. You still won't pay any income tax. If you make more and other people report your income for you then your S.O.L.

I did that for 3 years and then just went ahead and filed for Veteran's Benefits. So now I'm on VA healthcare. Sounds like you probably have VA healthcare too since you're retired.

If I made no taxable income I would still probably compare Medicare to Obamacare and decide whether I wanted to report $23,748 as my income. I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to claim more income than you make. Technically I make a lot more than my taxable income, but that's the beauty of self-employment. I set my home up 200 miles away from my clients. Every trip to a client is 400 miles round trip. That's over $200 in mileage deduction PER CLIENT. The govt doesn't care what you make when it comes to Obamacare. They care what your TAXABLE income is. It's the beauty of not working a regular job.

(time for the blah blah squad to respond... but you asked, so that's my answer for you.)


----------



## Jammer Six

Your solution is to lie?


----------



## tonybluegoat

Sasquatch said:


> Hmmmm? This is a little tough to answer since I am fairly new to prepping. I've been hiking/camping/shooting for a long time so I guess I have those down pretty well. Storing food and water I think I have down as well. I've been learning to can food. I've taken quite a few basic first aid classes so the basics are covered. But really I, like many others here, came to this site to learn. So I take knowledge from people I trust here. The reason I trust some people here is because I have been here long enough to get to know them, at least as well as you can get to know someone online. One thing I absolutely know 100% from ACTUAL FACTUAL experience is if you need to find a new group of people for whatever reason coming in like a bull in a china shop, TALKING LOUDLY and making demands you aren't going to get very far with the group.
> 
> My .02


One would think so. Then I received this private message:

_"Hey Tony,

I appreciate the time you've taken to post scenarios/thought provoking ideas and for sharing how and why you prep the way you do. I have found new motivation to take action and better my situation and preps because of you.

Keep up the good work and pay no attention to the grumpy old men who can't accept a way of doing something other than their own!

Stay strong..."_

So evidently there are people who understand what I'm trying to do. Some of them don't respond in the open because there's a group of Super-Friends who like to shit on new members. That's OK... there are lots of people who just simply ignore the snarking seniors.

My first post has 129 replies and almost 3,000 views.
And this is the most popular post since that one. over 600 view and 60 replies in less than a day.
It turns out that there are a lot of people who are actually interested in actual, factual prepping on a prepper forum. Not in pretending they are still the "cool kids" in the back of the bus that you have to cowtow to in order to be included in their little clique.


----------



## tonybluegoat

rice paddy daddy said:


> Well, don't need gasoline for mobility, if it comes to that we've got the horses.
> Refrigeration? Electricity? Running water? These are all luxuries I learned to do without in the combat zone. Don't really NEED them for bare bones living, nice to have though.
> Winter heat? We live in Florida.
> Food? We raise it and grow it.
> 
> Nope. Ain't worried.
> And frankly don't give a damn what someone may label me. Prepper? Homesteader? Who cares.


Nice! How big is your garden? Do you do a fall garden? I couldn't agree more about the refrigeration. I live in East Texas - similar humidity I bet - I would really rather have at least one room with a window AC unit I can run while I sleep. I'm really considering switching my 3.5k solar array from grid-tie to off-grid so for a long term emergency I can skip sleeping in a pool of sweat. I think it'll run about $5,000 to make the transition. It's hard to do, but that's my next big move I think.

What are your thoughts on that?


----------



## Inor

tonybluegoat said:


> About 7 years my wife and I bought a "homestead." What's a homestead, it's land that supports a diverse set of activities that all work together to support an independent lifestyle.
> 
> Garden/Farming, Small Animal Husbandry, Orchard, Water collection, Food Storage, Making your own products like soap and pottery, building, fencing, energy independence, medicine (traditional and modern), hunting, canning and preserving, etc.
> 
> I had read every homestead blog I could find, had dozens of books - both general and specific. It turned out that every homestead blog petered out after about 3 years and turned from a general homesteading blog into something else... what depended on the blogger.. or it just ended. I know why.
> 
> Homesteading is a dead end. Generalized self-sufficiency is a very expensive and impossible fantasy that has no basis in reality. We did it all, and have done it all. We did everything in the book over years of trying. It turns out you can't grow cell phone service or car insurance or gasoline (even though I did make ethanol/moonshine for a year). In the end it was all "possible" but none of it was "self-sufficient." It took so many inputs that had to be purchased it was easier and more logical to just purchase the final product.
> 
> That's why I went from a homesteading prepper to a storage prepper. How long will the emergency last? A year? Then store a year's worth of food, energy, have water collection, done... oh yea and guns/ammo. I have multiple of the same car, multiple of the same motorcycle, tractor, truck, all that. So just BUY IT!
> 
> *So here's the question. What prepper skills do you actually DO or HAVE DONE LONG ENOUGH that you are 100% confident that you have both the skills and resources to do them if you need to?*
> 
> *The next question is what do you KNOW based on ACTUAL FACTUAL experience that others (without the real experience) don't.
> *
> 
> I absolutely, positively know how to can food - particularly meat. It's my goto method of preservation. I've canned every type of meat from game to chicken. 3 times a year I can at least 100 lbs of meat at a time. It takes a lot of resources that if you don't already have them you are screwed. Energy, Big Canners, not the cheap junk, and lots of jars and lids already on hand.
> 
> I absolutely know how to raise goats, meat rabbits and chickens. But I also know that without FEED it is pretty much impossible to get any decent production. Of the three Goats are the most sustainable because they are the best at self-sufficiency... but I live in Texas where there is browse almost all year and no snow. The key resource to stockpile with goats is Wormer. They get worms pretty easily.
> 
> Finally, the actual factual thing I know that most people don't is that in the country there already exists a secondary economy beyond just bartering with your neighbors. There are multiple small animal auction houses and large animal auction houses that operate every week rain, shine or sleet. The most interesting one is the small animal auction. They sell everything from bags of potatoes to eggs to farm equipment to chickens, turkeys, goats and small cows. Plus thousands of more things. It is the place where you can BRING just about anything to sell and you can BUY just about anything (but guns). So in a true collapse there will be a working economy in the countryside. Money, no money, banks, no banks, the structure is already there and operates week in and week out. (look one up near you... they are fascinating). I have sold animals and bought lots of stuff at my local small animal auction house.
> 
> I also know that "homesteading" is a magazine fantasy that has no basis in reality. I don't think it ever did. The idea of being self sufficient as a family unit has never been true. The plains got homesteaded when the RAILROAD was laid. why? Because it could bring STUFF from other places and take farm produce TO other places for money. Homesteaders needed money and credit, manufactured goods, etc. just like everyone else. And they mostly just produced one or two products... just like having a job today. I guarantee they didn't make their own lye soap if they had an extra nickel for a bar of fragrant soap from the east. They made their own because they were mostly poor. Land rich, cash poor.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Only stuff you, personally, do or have done to a pretty deep extent.
> 
> Here are pics from just one Spring on the homestead... stuff I actually do.
> 
> View attachment 82655
> 
> Raising "Naked Neck" chickens (called Turkens, large robust egg and meat birds... it was a bust)
> 
> View attachment 82657
> 
> Canning 50 lbs of chicken and stock - excellent results repeated often
> 
> View attachment 82659
> 
> Cutting wood to heat 100% wood based for the winter - it went really well I prefer wood heat and still do it, but my wife prefers electric heat (over wood or propane) so my winter electric bills aren't great... women! Funny story, that truckload of wood was given to me by a neighbor in exchange for a pie I made... a pie! Even though he has land he doesn't use wood heat. It turns out that most people who live in the country are all-electric. They aren't preppers. They are people with a job in town who want to be able to turn a thermostat on the wall.
> 
> View attachment 82661
> 
> View attachment 82663
> 
> I found it's easier to maintain a garden with a large tiller than with my giant tractor. It doesn't take much of a garden to make WAY MORE food than you can eat. If most people paid attention to how much it cost to garden and then preserve the food they might find (like I did) that it's cheaper and easier to just buy canned vegetables. Fresh Tomatoes, peppers and green beans are good. But you can literally grow those in your suburban back yard. 6 of each plant will probably produce more than you can eat over a summer.
> 
> View attachment 82665
> 
> View attachment 82667
> 
> lots of eggs for both eating and incubating. The idea of using chicken eggs or chickens as the basis of any sort of income is a dead end. You wouldn't think it but it is. Way too expensive to make and too hard to sell at any volume.
> 
> I'm out of attachments (only 7 allowed) I also milled my own wood and did other stuff. That was Spring of 2014.
> 
> The #1 prepper skill I developed over the past 7 years is the requirement to have very little MONEY. I call it being Poor on Purpose. I make money but I don't NEED money. Everything I own from my farm to my vehicles is paid for.... I have stockpiled the parts and skills necessary to keep what I have operational without money. I have food and energy required to live for a year on no cash. And no one is going to come try to foreclose. My property taxes are $308 per year. I always have the cash I need to get through a year if I can't work. In a non-emergency situation I can live on $800 per month - because I like to have cable TV and internet, etc. In an emergency where I have to cut back I can live on $450 per month. In a SHTF I can live on almost nothing and have enough cash on hand to cover whatever I can't ignore (like taxes and electricity - if it's still available).
> 
> My greatest fear was foreclosure, repossession or having an inability to sustain things because of debt. I fixed that problem. I know for many/most it's not an option they want to sacrifice for. But that doesn't mean you can't make a "lifeboat" that is paid off... a little land and a paid off RV to live on it.
> 
> I know a lady who was a prepper in the ghetto. Not inner city ghetto... the part of town where the poorest people live. She bought two vacant lots next to each other in a tax auction and she turned them into a homestead... composting toilet, animals, gardening, water collection. The whole 9 yards. I don't think it's sustainable in a "let's go shoot the lady with the chickens" type emergency. But it was interesting and she lived on almost no money.


I am trying (unsuccessfully apparently) to understand the point of this post.

Is your primary point that trying to be 100% totally self-sufficient, without any trade or input from the outside world, is a very difficult if not impossible task? If so, I do not think you will find any disagreement here. What homesteading and/or prepper books are you reading that led you to that conclusion? Every book I have ever read on the topic(s) has made a pretty clear point saying that you MUST develop a community of people you trust enough to at least be able to trade with. - That includes trading in Federal Reserve Notes.


----------



## Sasquatch

tonybluegoat said:


> One would think so. Then I received this private message:
> 
> _"Hey Tony,
> 
> I appreciate the time you've taken to post scenarios/thought provoking ideas and for sharing how and why you prep the way you do. I have found new motivation to take action and better my situation and preps because of you.
> 
> Keep up the good work and pay no attention to the grumpy old men who can't accept a way of doing something other than their own!
> 
> Stay strong..."_
> 
> So evidently there are people who understand what I'm trying to do. Some of them don't respond in the open because there's a group of Super-Friends who like to shit on new members. That's OK... there are lots of people who just simply ignore the snarking seniors.
> 
> My first post has 129 replies and almost 3,000 views.
> And this is the most popular post since that one. over 600 view and 60 replies in less than a day.
> It turns out that there are a lot of people who are actually interested in actual, factual prepping on a prepper forum. Not in pretending they are still the "cool kids" in the back of the bus that you have to cowtow to in order to be included in their little clique.


Well since you are the worlds greatest prepping instructor and an obvious inspirer of men you could start a Prepping site of your own, right?


----------



## tonybluegoat

Inor said:


> I am trying (unsuccessfully apparently) to understand the point of this post.
> 
> Is your primary point that trying to be 100% totally self-sufficient, without any trade or input from the outside world, is a very difficult if not impossible task? If so, I do not think you will find any disagreement here. What homesteading and/or prepper books are you reading that led you to that conclusion? Every book I have ever read on the topic(s) has made a pretty clear point saying that you MUST develop a community of people you trust enough to at least be able to trade with. - That includes trading in Federal Reserve Notes.


Good points. I agree... My point isn't to have people agree with me. My point is to have people talk about what they actually do that works or doesn't work for their situation, as preppers. It always depends on what you are prepping for. If you are prepping for a year without electricity then you would do different things than if you are prepping for a regional emergency or a 3 month trucking strike.

I, personally, enjoy hearing different things but I would like to be able to ask people who do those things questions that might help me. Disagreement is great, different experiences are even better. A few want to just make stupid comments, but that easy enough to ignore. So what's my point? To find people who want to talk in detail about preparing for different scenarios without turning it into a 2 line joke contest or a running commentary on politics. I started by posting some of what I do or have done because the devil is in the details. My details may or may not be right. I'm not advocating doing what I do.

I think it started very poorly and is now starting to get a little steam. What do you think?


----------



## tonybluegoat

Sasquatch said:


> Well since you are the worlds greatest prepping instructor and an obvious inspirer of men you could start a Prepping site of your own, right?


I'm simply pointing out that some people are interested... I have made no claims to be the world's greatest prepper... I have disagreed with the Senior Snark Squad attitude, however. It won't make it go away, but maybe the moderators will see the difference between enthusiastic involvement in a forum vs a bunch of snide comments... maybe.

I started a distinct thread so I wouldn't be jumping into someone else's thread with lots of ideas they weren't really interested in. This way THIS THREAD can talk about THIS STUFF. Other threads can do what other threads do. Don't need a forum. Just a thread.


----------



## inceptor

Yeah @Sasquatch someone need to report you to a mod. Oh, wait...............................


----------



## tonybluegoat

inceptor said:


> Yeah @Sasquatch someone need to report you to a mod. Oh, wait...............................


You didn't catch the irony... that's OK. I guess it was too subtle. I know who Sasquach is.

or is it sarcasm... I can't tell the difference sometimes.


----------



## youngridge

I get where Tony is coming from. Enjoyed every post to the bottom of this thread of people contributing what they do that actually works and what they did that did not work. Thought the arguing was entertaining. There you have it. My second favorite thread behind the what was your prep of the day. Good information and entertainment all in one. 

I will however choose to contribute to the thread because aside from the arguing I thought every post had valuable information.

For a living I consult various farm operations on how to grow marketable crops. The majority of the crops are GMO, but I also work a lot with non GMO and organic folks too. My goal is to give them options and tools to make money. I raise both GMO and non GMO commodities for various reasons that make sense to the way my operation is set up. 

I would like to think that I have a knack to have an ability to grow vegetables and grains, but may lack when it comes to citrus and fruits, it is just something that I do not see a lot of.

I guess I can grow things, small scale garden or on 300 acre field. 

Edit to add: I can shoot straight, as I am sure most people can on here. I have a large family....some are 3 generations disconnected from the farm and live in large cities....you would almost be safer swimming with sharks than watching them handle a firearm. It’s not the fact that they are my relatives and don’t know how to handle a fire arm or shoot....it’s the fact that they live in cities with millions more people like that. You may not deem it as a skill, prep or even a trade, but that is something that you know how to do than a lot more people out there. That goes from shooting to cleaning them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## StratMaster

I plan to get by with barter... trading on my mad skills as a nude dancer. :vs_bananasplit:


----------



## BookWorm

@tonybluegoat I joined the group for similar reasons. I seek information to better prepare myself for whatever may come to pass in the future, or for what ever event may occur. While I had a career, (before the recession) I learned how to live off-grid for 3-4 days at a time while working in various deserts or dune locations. At that time I knew nothing about "prepping".

God brought me back to the midwest. I had no intention to come back to the town where I was born and raised. My career is worthless here because of the mindset of the locals. (my resume intimidates them, instead of seeing experience, they see someone who has more experience than they do and are afraid to look bad) But, I've learned things that I wouldn't have other wised learned. I feel this is why he brought me back. I honestly feel something is coming, a game changer on a global level.

I don't have 1 or 3 specific skills that nobody else has. I don't can, no longer reload, and after five years of failed attempts our gardening skills suck. However, I have spent a lot of time watching people, how they act, react and make decisions. I have put together a large pile of medical books. From EMT training to text books on anatomy, etc. I've done the same thing with history books, that were written before the lefty's have tried to re-write history.

In the last 5-6 years I've tried to no success to put together a group of like minded people to start working on a real plan of how to survive various events that may take place. My last attempt included finding this website.

I'm finding few people trust anymore. Our society has changed so much in the last 30 years, I almost don't recognize it. I don't know how long I'll survive after the event. I feel a certain level of ease that God will provide what I need. Not sure how, but my faith tells me not to worry. That doesn't mean I'm not getting ready for an event.

Skills are good to have. They need to be practiced to become efficient. Some people have more time than others to do this. I still work full time, with limited time to practice.

You mentioned your Mastiff keeping a man pinned against a wall. My wife was a dog trainer for 23 years in Houston. We had a neighbor in CA who had a Mastiff, it was not aggressive. The opposite in fact. Most people refer to that breed as a "gentle giant". Earlier this year, a friend invited me to photograph some old trucks in the back field of a local farmers plot of land. One of his customers said he could come take pics of them. What he didn't mention is that there was a pit bull on his porch, tied to it.

My friend isn't a dog person. Afraid of most and wasn't in a hurry to befriend this pitbull. When we got there, the dog started barking... a lot. It alerted the owner we were there. My friend tried to walk up to the door, but the dog wasn't going to let him. A few minuted later, we're at the barn getting started to take pics. Here comes the owner and dog. The dog wasn't on a leash. As it approached, I took a knee, extended one hand and said to the approaching dog... come here and say hi... (I used a calm voice, with a smile). This viscous dog instantly started wagging its tail and came to me as if we knew each other.

The farmer almost shit his pants. "I've never seen anyone take a knee to this dog and greet her like that" I smiled and replied, I'm a dog person and she knew that. I have a natural skill, to read dogs. I also know how to take them down, break their neck without getting bit or scratched. They can sense your fear. If God is in your heart, you shouldn't have much fear if any at all. (this doesn't mean you should sky dive without a chute).

I hope you find what you're looking for when it comes to this site. There are some good people here, who I've enjoyed talking with and exchanging thoughts on various subjects.


----------



## inceptor

tonybluegoat said:


> You didn't catch the irony... that's OK. I guess it was too subtle. I know who Sasquach is.
> 
> or is it sarcasm... I can't tell the difference sometimes.


I was playing on your post, but, you're right, I have no idea how this game works. Maybe when I grow up. Carry on.


----------



## Go2ndAmend

What do I actually do and not just read about? That's a good start to what has become a very interesting thread. Like many folks here, I believe in self-sufficiency, doing the best with what you have, and no government assistance/hinderance. That said, I've spent the better part of four decades living and doing a rural lifestyle. Up every morning feeding livestock and chickens, fixing farm equipment with wrenches and welders, repairing barns/houses and injured animals. I put an elk and a few deer in the freezer every year, grow a large garden, can food, smoke meat. I will soon be totally off-grid with a large solar/battery/generator installation. I have stores put away for hard times and continue to read and learn as much as time allows. However, I have to agree with the OP that doing all I do, at least from my experience, would be damn near impossible as a true "homesteader" who never went to town to buy diesel, fertilizer, soap, or most importantly, booze. I appreciate the comments of all, have learned from the and will continue to do so. However, I do agree with the premise of the OP that a true "homesteader" is like a unicorn or Bigfoot. I like to think they are out there and it makes me feel good, but I ain't never seen one.


----------



## tonybluegoat

youngridge said:


> I get where Tony is coming from. Enjoyed every post to the bottom of this thread of people contributing what they do that actually works and what they did that did not work. Thought the arguing was entertaining. There you have it. My second favorite thread behind the what was your prep of the day. Good information and entertainment all in one.
> 
> I will however choose to contribute to the thread because aside from the arguing I thought every post had valuable information.
> 
> For a living I consult various farm operations on how to grow marketable crops. The majority of the crops are GMO, but I also work a lot with non GMO and organic folks too. My goal is to give them options and tools to make money. I raise both GMO and non GMO commodities for various reasons that make sense to the way my operation is set up.
> 
> I would like to think that I have a knack to have an ability to grow vegetables and grains, but may lack when it comes to citrus and fruits, it is just something that I do not see a lot of.
> 
> I guess I can grow things, small scale garden or on 300 acre field.
> 
> Edit to add: I can shoot straight, as I am sure most people can on here. I have a large family....some are 3 generations disconnected from the farm and live in large cities....you would almost be safer swimming with sharks than watching them handle a firearm. It's not the fact that they are my relatives and don't know how to handle a fire arm or shoot....it's the fact that they live in cities with millions more people like that. You may not deem it as a skill, prep or even a trade, but that is something that you know how to do than a lot more people out there. That goes from shooting to cleaning them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do I add you my friends list. I have spent so much money trying to grow things. Some things grow like mad (cucumbers and melons) here Green beans, peppers and tomatoes. But potatoes are hopeless. My attempt at a fall garden was pathetic

Anyway, great info. I would love to know how to grow a "marketable" crop. I have no interest in sitting on the side of the road all day trying to sell watermelons like I see some people do around here. Can you talk more about that for small acreage (I have 10 acres but probably only 5 can be planted.

Thanks


----------



## tonybluegoat

BookWorm said:


> @tonybluegoat I joined the group for similar reasons. I seek information to better prepare myself for whatever may come to pass in the future, or for what ever event may occur. While I had a career, (before the recession) I learned how to live off-grid for 3-4 days at a time while working in various deserts or dune locations. At that time I knew nothing about "prepping".
> 
> God brought me back to the midwest. I had no intention to come back to the town where I was born and raised. My career is worthless here because of the mindset of the locals. (my resume intimidates them, instead of seeing experience, they see someone who has more experience than they do and are afraid to look bad) But, I've learned things that I wouldn't have other wised learned. I feel this is why he brought me back. I honestly feel something is coming, a game changer on a global level.
> 
> I don't have 1 or 3 specific skills that nobody else has. I don't can, no longer reload, and after five years of failed attempts our gardening skills suck. However, I have spent a lot of time watching people, how they act, react and make decisions. I have put together a large pile of medical books. From EMT training to text books on anatomy, etc. I've done the same thing with history books, that were written before the lefty's have tried to re-write history.
> 
> In the last 5-6 years I've tried to no success to put together a group of like minded people to start working on a real plan of how to survive various events that may take place. My last attempt included finding this website.
> 
> I'm finding few people trust anymore. Our society has changed so much in the last 30 years, I almost don't recognize it. I don't know how long I'll survive after the event. I feel a certain level of ease that God will provide what I need. Not sure how, but my faith tells me not to worry. That doesn't mean I'm not getting ready for an event.
> 
> Skills are good to have. They need to be practiced to become efficient. Some people have more time than others to do this. I still work full time, with limited time to practice.
> 
> You mentioned your Mastiff keeping a man pinned against a wall. My wife was a dog trainer for 23 years in Houston. We had a neighbor in CA who had a Mastiff, it was not aggressive. The opposite in fact. Most people refer to that breed as a "gentle giant". Earlier this year, a friend invited me to photograph some old trucks in the back field of a local farmers plot of land. One of his customers said he could come take pics of them. What he didn't mention is that there was a pit bull on his porch, tied to it.
> 
> My friend isn't a dog person. Afraid of most and wasn't in a hurry to befriend this pitbull. When we got there, the dog started barking... a lot. It alerted the owner we were there. My friend tried to walk up to the door, but the dog wasn't going to let him. A few minuted later, we're at the barn getting started to take pics. Here comes the owner and dog. The dog wasn't on a leash. As it approached, I took a knee, extended one hand and said to the approaching dog... come here and say hi... (I used a calm voice, with a smile). This viscous dog instantly started wagging its tail and came to me as if we knew each other.
> 
> The farmer almost shit his pants. "I've never seen anyone take a knee to this dog and greet her like that" I smiled and replied, I'm a dog person and she knew that. I have a natural skill, to read dogs. I also know how to take them down, break their neck without getting bit or scratched. They can sense your fear. If God is in your heart, you shouldn't have much fear if any at all. (this doesn't mean you should sky dive without a chute).
> 
> I hope you find what you're looking for when it comes to this site. There are some good people here, who I've enjoyed talking with and exchanging thoughts on various subjects.


That's a cool story. You sound like you're more interested in people than things. Funny enough I became a dog trainer around the time of the great recession. Lost my job as corporate VP. I like training dogs a lot better. The people are always happy to see me and I have no left over junk in my "IN" box the next day.

What's your plan?


----------



## tonybluegoat

Go2ndAmend said:


> What do I actually do and not just read about? That's a good start to what has become a very interesting thread. Like many folks here, I believe in self-sufficiency, doing the best with what you have, and no government assistance/hinderance. That said, I've spent the better part of four decades living and doing a rural lifestyle. Up every morning feeding livestock and chickens, fixing farm equipment with wrenches and welders, repairing barns/houses and injured animals. I put an elk and a few deer in the freezer every year, grow a large garden, can food, smoke meat. I will soon be totally off-grid with a large solar/battery/generator installation. I have stores put away for hard times and continue to read and learn as much as time allows. However, I have to agree with the OP that doing all I do, at least from my experience, would be damn near impossible as a true "homesteader" who never went to town to buy diesel, fertilizer, soap, or most importantly, booze. I appreciate the comments of all, have learned from the and will continue to do so. However, I do agree with the premise of the OP that a true "homesteader" is like a unicorn or Bigfoot. I like to think they are out there and it makes me feel good, but I ain't never seen one.


I never kept cows. Can you keep them without grain inputs or is that pretty much impossible at this point? Obviously anyone who can MAKE food will be king in a SHTF scenario. I always felt like if there was rationing of fuel Farmers and Ranchers would be on the "need to fuel" list. My neighbor keeps cows, so far it looks like just on graze and hay. He seems like he has way too many for his property. He has 50 cows on 20 acres. Isn't that too many? (not that it matters to me, they aren't my cows, I'm just curious.)

It seems like northern california would be be a really good place to prep. The weather is very stable and you get plenty of rain. Not like the So Cal. Am I right?


----------



## tonybluegoat

StratMaster said:


> I plan to get by with barter... trading on my mad skills as a nude dancer. :vs_bananasplit:


Is that a banana thong? :vs_box:


----------



## ilmostrog

Lots of good stuff here. Tony you have definitely contributed some of the more interesting info lately and ignited some good conversations. 

Skills. Professionaly I am an animator, I use 3D software to create product renders and animations for companies that cant get what they need with a camera. This will not be useful in most scenarios we prep for but it demonstrates one of my abilities in that I taught myself how to do this and then pursued gigs ( paying and non paying) to get real experience until I was able to actually make a living doing it. Prior to that I worked in advertising and before that in sales and before that bar tending and waiting tables. I know how to manage projects and work with a team towards a goal even when the team doesn’t all share the same priorities. 

I have some fire arms training. Have done several pistol courses all designed around conceal carry and self defense in different scenarios. I take formal training at least once a year and practice at least once a month at the range. Have also done a carbine class. Most of the training was through the GoRuck organization which I am a huge fan of. The trainers are all ex special operations guys with lots of years training other armies in the techniques they show us during the class. Go on line and check them out. They do some great stuff. 

Two or three times a week I do a five to eight mile ruck with my backpack loaded with about 45 lbs. I do this to get into better shape and a few times a year I do solo hikes into the mountains and practice camping and seeing what I do and don’t need to get by. I realize that camping isn’t the same as survival but I am slowly working on my skills and confidence and will be trying things like building ,y own shelter etc as a way to practice and learn. Biggest lesson I have learned is how easy it is to overpack and then struggle to make your way up the mountain. Took me 6 hours once to make it 4 miles and 2000 feet up but it was in the snow and I hadn’t ever used snow shoes and the snow was 4 ft deep in places. That was a real eye opener of a trip on many levels. Was never in real trouble but it was easy to see how quickly something could have gone very wrong. 

Working on my gardening skills. This was the first year in a few that I had some success due to only planting carrots and potatoes and focusing on getting success there and building on it. 

I don’t have any formal self defense skills but I have boxed in a USA Boxing sanctioned amateur match and during my days in the bar business have been in mor bar brawls than I want to think about. This doesn’t make me tough or even formidable but I know how I tend to react to the threat of violence and I also know what it feels like to be hit,kicked,stomped and that helps reduce the fear that a lot of people fear that have never been hit or in a fight. I am guessing that most of the folks here have been in row or two. 

I live in a city but I do what I can to increase our odds when trouble strikes be it laid off from my job or an earthquake. I need to do more towards building a community. We have friends that aren’t going to be preppers but I think could be counted on to be more prepared and to work together should it be needed on day. 

Like others I am here to learn but also enjoy the opportunity to interact with others who share my desire to be prepared for hard times. There aren’t a lot of opportunities to do that the people we know.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sasquatch

tonybluegoat said:


> I'm simply pointing out that some people are interested... I have made no claims to be the world's greatest prepper... I have disagreed with the Senior Snark Squad attitude, however. It won't make it go away, but maybe the moderators will see the difference between enthusiastic involvement in a forum vs a bunch of snide comments... maybe.
> 
> I started a distinct thread so I wouldn't be jumping into someone else's thread with lots of ideas they weren't really interested in. This way THIS THREAD can talk about THIS STUFF. Other threads can do what other threads do. Don't need a forum. Just a thread.


Well let me point this out, there are 385 pages with 20 threads each in the General Prepper Talk section. That's approximately 7500 threads, most of which cover what you are talking about in your "distinct" thread. Did you even bother to look? Did you use the search function? And most of the, as you refer to them, Senior Snark Squad have participated in a great number of those threads because they've been here a long time. Not only have they been here a long time but they have contributed heavily and helped build a community/family right here on this site.

We have a lot of new people come through here, some of which come in the door guns a blazin'. When a new person comes into this community they are typically welcomed with cautious enthusiasm. Enthusiasm goes right out the window and caution becomes a roadblock when someone comes in with a hard edge.

You are welcome here and, if you don't want to search out previous threads on topics that have been discussed ad nauseum, feel free to start your own. Just try to remember where you are and that you are new.


----------



## tonybluegoat

Sasquatch said:


> Well let me point this out, there are 385 pages with 20 threads each in the General Prepper Talk section. That's approximately 7500 threads, most of which cover what you are talking about in your "distinct" thread. Did you even bother to look? Did you use the search function? And most of the, as you refer to them, Senior Snark Squad have participated in a great number of those threads because they've been here a long time. Not only have they been here a long time but they have contributed heavily and helped build a community/family right here on this site.
> 
> We have a lot of new people come through here, some of which come in the door guns a blazin'. When a new person comes into this community they are typically welcomed with cautious enthusiasm. Enthusiasm goes right out the window and caution becomes a roadblock when someone comes in with a hard edge.
> 
> You are welcome here and, if you don't want to search out previous threads on topics that have been discussed ad nauseum, feel free to start your own. Just try to remember where you are and that you are new.


Thank you. I will.


----------



## tonybluegoat

ilmostrog said:


> Lots of good stuff here. Tony you have definitely contributed some of the more interesting info lately and ignited some good conversations.
> 
> Skills. Professionaly I am an animator, I use 3D software to create product renders and animations for companies that cant get what they need with a camera. This will not be useful in most scenarios we prep for but it demonstrates one of my abilities in that I taught myself how to do this and then pursued gigs ( paying and non paying) to get real experience until I was able to actually make a living doing it. Prior to that I worked in advertising and before that in sales and before that bar tending and waiting tables. I know how to manage projects and work with a team towards a goal even when the team doesn't all share the same priorities.
> 
> I have some fire arms training. Have done several pistol courses all designed around conceal carry and self defense in different scenarios. I take formal training at least once a year and practice at least once a month at the range. Have also done a carbine class. Most of the training was through the GoRuck organization which I am a huge fan of. The trainers are all ex special operations guys with lots of years training other armies in the techniques they show us during the class. Go on line and check them out. They do some great stuff.
> 
> Two or three times a week I do a five to eight mile ruck with my backpack loaded with about 45 lbs. I do this to get into better shape and a few times a year I do solo hikes into the mountains and practice camping and seeing what I do and don't need to get by. I realize that camping isn't the same as survival but I am slowly working on my skills and confidence and will be trying things like building ,y own shelter etc as a way to practice and learn. Biggest lesson I have learned is how easy it is to overpack and then struggle to make your way up the mountain. Took me 6 hours once to make it 4 miles and 2000 feet up but it was in the snow and I hadn't ever used snow shoes and the snow was 4 ft deep in places. That was a real eye opener of a trip on many levels. Was never in real trouble but it was easy to see how quickly something could have gone very wrong.
> 
> Working on my gardening skills. This was the first year in a few that I had some success due to only planting carrots and potatoes and focusing on getting success there and building on it.
> 
> I don't have any formal self defense skills but I have boxed in a USA Boxing sanctioned amateur match and during my days in the bar business have been in mor bar brawls than I want to think about. This doesn't make me tough or even formidable but I know how I tend to react to the threat of violence and I also know what it feels like to be hit,kicked,stomped and that helps reduce the fear that a lot of people fear that have never been hit or in a fight. I am guessing that most of the folks here have been in row or two.
> 
> I live in a city but I do what I can to increase our odds when trouble strikes be it laid off from my job or an earthquake. I need to do more towards building a community. We have friends that aren't going to be preppers but I think could be counted on to be more prepared and to work together should it be needed on day.
> 
> Like others I am here to learn but also enjoy the opportunity to interact with others who share my desire to be prepared for hard times. There aren't a lot of opportunities to do that the people we know.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Haha, the fighting part reminds me of a guy I pissed off in a Lowes parking lot by asking him to move his truck that he parked in the loading zone and then went in to shop. He blew a gasket and went into face off mode. I just kept poking his buttons (because I'm me). He never could get up the nerve to take a swing. My older brother was with me. He's 70 now but used to be an outlaw biker, so he has been in many serious brawls... Afterward he said, "I was interested to see when he hit you if you were going to fall down or just stand there dumbfounded.. because you have no idea how to fight." :vs_laugh: He's right. I don't mind getting punched in the head, but I have no idea what to do in return. Maybe it would come to me... I have since decided not to do that again because some people carry. I don't. No need to get shot over a parking spot, right?

I'm really interested in the GoRuck thing. This summer I spent running 5 miles a couple times a week. But 2 summers ago I would ruck 5 miles twice a week with my BOB - 42 lbs. I'm 49, so not as bouncy as I was... Is this a national organization? I'll have to look it up.


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## ilmostrog

GoRuck. Really interesting company and back story. Founder was a green beret decided to make a backpack that would stand up to abuse it would see in the field. As they started to promote the backpacks he and his buddies started showing up to events like tough Mudders and other races wearing the backpack with weight in them and they hit on the idea of the GoRuck challenge to help promote the gear which is a 12-13 hour team event. Everyone has to have a ruck with at least 20 -30 lbs in it depending on your weight. They have since expanded to three different levels-Light,Tough, and Heavy events. I did my first light this March and am doing my first tough in October. They have events all over the country. They do the challenge events, firearms training and some other events that are geared towards survival. Everything they do seems to be first class. There is a huge community of people who are into the events and most that I have met are really solid. The fire arms training was amazing. In April did a two day class and each day we covered more than I have done in other two day courses. Btw I am 52. Not a lot of running but lots of rucking with a heavy backpack on you back and hauling logs or bags of sand or blocks of cement. GoRuck.com. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## youngridge

tonybluegoat said:


> How do I add you my friends list. I have spent so much money trying to grow things. Some things grow like mad (cucumbers and melons) here Green beans, peppers and tomatoes. But potatoes are hopeless. My attempt at a fall garden was pathetic
> 
> Anyway, great info. I would love to know how to grow a "marketable" crop. I have no interest in sitting on the side of the road all day trying to sell watermelons like I see some people do around here. Can you talk more about that for small acreage (I have 10 acres but probably only 5 can be planted.
> 
> Thanks


Potatoes...keep them on sandy soil, if you take the soil at a 4" depth and rub it in your fingers wet and it kind of makes a ribbon that is about best. If it just ribbons and doesn't fall apart it probably is a little too heavy of ground. Lots of water and good drainage. Along with a lot of Potassium. Any kind of manure incorporated the last few years will help but Potash would be your best bet.

On your 5 acres....it is hard to have a easy crop that you can market at an elevator or a large buyer with that for the investment in the equipment you would need. Working with some one in the area who farms could help you out a bit. He has the equipment, trade work for a bit of custom farming and inputs. Could work out. A lot of smaller farmers would be willing to take that on, especially if they already farm some smaller pieces....or rent it out and hopefully make enough in rent to cover all your property taxes. Most of the crop will depend on where you are and what markets are in your area.


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## MisterMills357

tonybluegoat said:


> About 7 years my wife and I bought a "homestead." What's a homestead, it's land that supports a diverse set of activities that all work together to support an independent lifestyle.
> 
> View attachment 82655
> 
> Raising "Naked Neck" chickens (called Turkens, large robust egg and meat birds... it was a bust)
> 
> View attachment 82659
> 
> Cutting wood to heat 100% wood based for the winter - it went really well I prefer wood heat and still do it, but my wife prefers electric heat (over wood or propane) so my winter electric bills aren't great... women! Funny story, that truckload of wood was given to me by a neighbor in exchange for a pie I made... a pie! Even though he has land he doesn't use wood heat. It turns out that most people who live in the country are all-electric. They aren't preppers. They are people with a job in town who want to be able to turn a thermostat on the wall.
> .


That is an ugly chicken, and country people ain't a bit smarter than city people when it comes to heating the house. Wood burns, and they are surrounded by it, it seems like something would click. Everyone who lives in a place surrounded by wood, should have wood stove; it seems self-evident, but it is not.
What do I do to prepare? Nothing much really, there will be plenty of stuff laying around for me to get; and I all that I have to do, is live to tell about it. And I intend to live, and that is my plan.


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## tonybluegoat

MisterMills357 said:


> That is an ugly chicken, and country people ain't a bit smarter than city people when it comes to heating the house. Wood burns, and they are surrounded by it, it seems like something would click. Everyone who lives in a place surrounded by wood, should have wood stove; it seems self-evident, but it is not.
> What do I do to prepare? Nothing much really, there will be plenty of stuff laying around for me to get; and I all that I have to do, is live to tell about it. And I intend to live, and that is my plan.


I saw one of those "Extreme Prepper" episodes where the guy's wife was from Vietnam... The whole show she was looking at him like, "you've gotta be kidding me." You could tell by looking at her she would know exactly what to do to survive, because she had done it before. She didn't need preps. She could eat bugs or gather grasses. You could see it in her face. I thought it was funny.


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## tonybluegoat

MisterMills357 said:


> That is an ugly chicken, and country people ain't a bit smarter than city people when it comes to heating the house. Wood burns, and they are surrounded by it, it seems like something would click. Everyone who lives in a place surrounded by wood, should have wood stove; it seems self-evident, but it is not.
> What do I do to prepare? Nothing much really, there will be plenty of stuff laying around for me to get; and I all that I have to do, is live to tell about it. And I intend to live, and that is my plan.


When I lived in the suburbs I installed an old style fireplace insert in the fireplace. It turned it from a decoration to something that could functionally heat the entire house.









In 2008 I got it for $200 on craigslist in Dallas then cleaned it up. Most people don't buy them so they can bet got cheap... or at least they could. (The fan does need electricity, but it could easily be replaced with a 12 volt fan that can run off a battery that's charges with a small solar recharger.)


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## tonybluegoat

youngridge said:


> Potatoes...keep them on sandy soil, if you take the soil at a 4" depth and rub it in your fingers wet and it kind of makes a ribbon that is about best. If it just ribbons and doesn't fall apart it probably is a little too heavy of ground. Lots of water and good drainage. Along with a lot of Potassium. Any kind of manure incorporated the last few years will help but Potash would be your best bet.
> 
> On your 5 acres....it is hard to have a easy crop that you can market at an elevator or a large buyer with that for the investment in the equipment you would need. Working with some one in the area who farms could help you out a bit. He has the equipment, trade work for a bit of custom farming and inputs. Could work out. A lot of smaller farmers would be willing to take that on, especially if they already farm some smaller pieces....or rent it out and hopefully make enough in rent to cover all your property taxes. Most of the crop will depend on where you are and what markets are in your area.


I have sandy loam.. My problem with potatoes was these red bugs. They would eat all the plants to the ground. I couldn't stay ahead of them...

Thanks for the advice. My brother likes sitting around and talking to people. Maybe I grow watermelons and cantaloupes (is that really how that's spelled?) then have HIM sit on the side of the road.


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## Mad Trapper

tonybluegoat said:


> I have sandy loam.. My problem with potatoes was these red bugs. They would eat all the plants to the ground. I couldn't stay ahead of them...
> 
> Thanks for the advice. My brother likes sitting around and talking to people. Maybe I grow watermelons and cantaloupes (is that really how that's spelled?) then have HIM sit on the side of the road.


Red "bugs" (potato maggots) would be Colorado potato beetle larva.

You need to scout plants for adults (pea sized stripped beetles) and eggs (yellow clusters undersides of leaves).

When they are found squash them if <100 plants, need sprays for more. Spray with either BT or Neem. Use one or the other but not both in succession. CPBs get resistance to pesticides. Alternate sprays. Spinosad also works. These are all organically approved.

Some places have two generations. I'm in zone 4-5 so usually just one here.


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## youngridge

Mad Trapper said:


> Red "bugs" (potato maggots) would be Colorado potato beetle larva.
> 
> You need to scout plants for adults (pea sized stripped beetles) and eggs (yellow clusters undersides of leaves).
> 
> When they are found squash them if <100 plants, need sprays for more. Spray with either BT or Neem. Use one or the other but not both in succession. CPBs get resistance to pesticides. Alternate sprays. Spinosad also works. These are all organically approved.
> 
> Some places have two generations. I'm in zone 4-5 so usually just one here.


Some generic lamcap would be alright too, like mad trapper said keep rotating modes of action to avoid resistance.


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## tonybluegoat

youngridge said:


> Some generic lamcap would be alright too, like mad trapper said keep rotating modes of action to avoid resistance.


You're my BFF


----------



## tirednurse

tonybluegoat said:


> About 7 years my wife and I bought a "homestead." What's a homestead, it's land that supports a diverse set of activities that all work together to support an independent lifestyle.
> 
> Garden/Farming, Small Animal Husbandry, Orchard, Water collection, Food Storage, Making your own products like soap and pottery, building, fencing, energy independence, medicine (traditional and modern), hunting, canning and preserving, etc.
> 
> I had read every homestead blog I could find, had dozens of books - both general and specific. It turned out that every homestead blog petered out after about 3 years and turned from a general homesteading blog into something else... what depended on the blogger.. or it just ended. I know why.
> 
> Homesteading is a dead end. Generalized self-sufficiency is a very expensive and impossible fantasy that has no basis in reality. We did it all, and have done it all. We did everything in the book over years of trying. It turns out you can't grow cell phone service or car insurance or gasoline (even though I did make ethanol/moonshine for a year). In the end it was all "possible" but none of it was "self-sufficient." It took so many inputs that had to be purchased it was easier and more logical to just purchase the final product.
> 
> That's why I went from a homesteading prepper to a storage prepper. How long will the emergency last? A year? Then store a year's worth of food, energy, have water collection, done... oh yea and guns/ammo. I have multiple of the same car, multiple of the same motorcycle, tractor, truck, all that. So just BUY IT!
> 
> *So here's the question. What prepper skills do you actually DO or HAVE DONE LONG ENOUGH that you are 100% confident that you have both the skills and resources to do them if you need to?*
> 
> *The next question is what do you KNOW based on ACTUAL FACTUAL experience that others (without the real experience) don't.
> *
> 
> I absolutely, positively know how to can food - particularly meat. It's my goto method of preservation. I've canned every type of meat from game to chicken. 3 times a year I can at least 100 lbs of meat at a time. It takes a lot of resources that if you don't already have them you are screwed. Energy, Big Canners, not the cheap junk, and lots of jars and lids already on hand.
> 
> I absolutely know how to raise goats, meat rabbits and chickens. But I also know that without FEED it is pretty much impossible to get any decent production. Of the three Goats are the most sustainable because they are the best at self-sufficiency... but I live in Texas where there is browse almost all year and no snow. The key resource to stockpile with goats is Wormer. They get worms pretty easily.
> 
> Finally, the actual factual thing I know that most people don't is that in the country there already exists a secondary economy beyond just bartering with your neighbors. There are multiple small animal auction houses and large animal auction houses that operate every week rain, shine or sleet. The most interesting one is the small animal auction. They sell everything from bags of potatoes to eggs to farm equipment to chickens, turkeys, goats and small cows. Plus thousands of more things. It is the place where you can BRING just about anything to sell and you can BUY just about anything (but guns). So in a true collapse there will be a working economy in the countryside. Money, no money, banks, no banks, the structure is already there and operates week in and week out. (look one up near you... they are fascinating). I have sold animals and bought lots of stuff at my local small animal auction house.
> 
> I also know that "homesteading" is a magazine fantasy that has no basis in reality. I don't think it ever did. The idea of being self sufficient as a family unit has never been true. The plains got homesteaded when the RAILROAD was laid. why? Because it could bring STUFF from other places and take farm produce TO other places for money. Homesteaders needed money and credit, manufactured goods, etc. just like everyone else. And they mostly just produced one or two products... just like having a job today. I guarantee they didn't make their own lye soap if they had an extra nickel for a bar of fragrant soap from the east. They made their own because they were mostly poor. Land rich, cash poor.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Only stuff you, personally, do or have done to a pretty deep extent.
> 
> Here are pics from just one Spring on the homestead... stuff I actually do.
> 
> View attachment 82655
> 
> Raising "Naked Neck" chickens (called Turkens, large robust egg and meat birds... it was a bust)
> 
> View attachment 82657
> 
> Canning 50 lbs of chicken and stock - excellent results repeated often
> 
> View attachment 82659
> 
> Cutting wood to heat 100% wood based for the winter - it went really well I prefer wood heat and still do it, but my wife prefers electric heat (over wood or propane) so my winter electric bills aren't great... women! Funny story, that truckload of wood was given to me by a neighbor in exchange for a pie I made... a pie! Even though he has land he doesn't use wood heat. It turns out that most people who live in the country are all-electric. They aren't preppers. They are people with a job in town who want to be able to turn a thermostat on the wall.
> 
> View attachment 82661
> 
> View attachment 82663
> 
> I found it's easier to maintain a garden with a large tiller than with my giant tractor. It doesn't take much of a garden to make WAY MORE food than you can eat. If most people paid attention to how much it cost to garden and then preserve the food they might find (like I did) that it's cheaper and easier to just buy canned vegetables. Fresh Tomatoes, peppers and green beans are good. But you can literally grow those in your suburban back yard. 6 of each plant will probably produce more than you can eat over a summer.
> 
> View attachment 82665
> 
> View attachment 82667
> 
> lots of eggs for both eating and incubating. The idea of using chicken eggs or chickens as the basis of any sort of income is a dead end. You wouldn't think it but it is. Way too expensive to make and too hard to sell at any volume.
> 
> I'm out of attachments (only 7 allowed) I also milled my own wood and did other stuff. That was Spring of 2014.
> 
> The #1 prepper skill I developed over the past 7 years is the requirement to have very little MONEY. I call it being Poor on Purpose. I make money but I don't NEED money. Everything I own from my farm to my vehicles is paid for.... I have stockpiled the parts and skills necessary to keep what I have operational without money. I have food and energy required to live for a year on no cash. And no one is going to come try to foreclose. My property taxes are $308 per year. I always have the cash I need to get through a year if I can't work. In a non-emergency situation I can live on $800 per month - because I like to have cable TV and internet, etc. In an emergency where I have to cut back I can live on $450 per month. In a SHTF I can live on almost nothing and have enough cash on hand to cover whatever I can't ignore (like taxes and electricity - if it's still available).
> 
> My greatest fear was foreclosure, repossession or having an inability to sustain things because of debt. I fixed that problem. I know for many/most it's not an option they want to sacrifice for. But that doesn't mean you can't make a "lifeboat" that is paid off... a little land and a paid off RV to live on it.
> 
> I know a lady who was a prepper in the ghetto. Not inner city ghetto... the part of town where the poorest people live. She bought two vacant lots next to each other in a tax auction and she turned them into a homestead... composting toilet, animals, gardening, water collection. The whole 9 yards. I don't think it's sustainable in a "let's go shoot the lady with the chickens" type emergency. But it was interesting and she lived on almost no money.


You are wrong. I headed into work right now so don't have time for details or arguments but I've lived this way for 20 years. I raise my Pigs totally free. I have rabbits chickens turkeys geese ducks and goats that I raise for profit who also provide my food without costing me anything. I also grow all of the fruit and veggies I eat as well as what I Feed my animals. Cost is only the seeds I did not save from the year before. 
I make enough off my property to pay for the extras like electric and Internet. I've done it without having an outside job. However I do work to support my aging parents as well as my own future. 
Maybe you just need to do more research or give up trying to get rich and live a simpler lifestyle.


----------



## WhatTheHeck

I think location is what is dictating degrees of success. 

I have been raising chickens, cows, ducks, pigs and rabbits now for six or seven years now. 

During the outdoors months, with exception of the pigs, everyone else is strictly free range. No feed. Chickens, pigs and rabbits do get scraps. 
The pigs have to get some feed, about a five gallon bucket a day. The rest is what they eat out on pasture. If I did not give them feed, they would not come up to slaughter weight by November. I do not want to over winter them. Hence the feed.

I have several raised bed gardens in various stages. 

We do can. 

Winter time, the rabbits and chickens do require feed. Less than the dogs. 
In the summer, the rabbits make great lawn mowers. Never had an issue with worms. Again, I think location may dictate that. 

Honestly hay and wood are my most likely limiting factors. I can and have used a hand scythe to make hay. Over 90 days for six goats. 
Could I do it now with the additional livestock. Probably. Just take planning. Weather is a more important factor. 
Wood, I could harvest what we have on our own property. But the wife and I are more of the mindset, lets pay to take wood off someone else, and save ours for if SHTF. 

I try to do everything now as if S has already HTF.

EDIT: Wheat. We make our own bread once or twice a week. I have grown small plots of wheat and other grains, but not enough to last a whole year.


----------



## Elvis

From previous posts I've read I suspect that TiredNurse is the person on this site who lives the life the most.

In my case each morning I collect eggs and cook my breakfast in a solar power heated skillet and bread baked in my wood fired dome oven and covered with honey from my hives or jam we made using fruit from our property. Apple, plumb, and peach trees give us fruit in season and we dry and make apple butter with the apples. The milk is store bought but all electricity is made on the property. Supper is also often wood cooked. Well water and septic because there are no county water lines this far out. My and neighbors gardens provide some of what we eat along with hunting on my place. We don't raise farm animals for meat but have some ability to do so including a butchering area with clean water. I do most property repairs myself using my tools and skills but still need to purchase most of the materials to do larger repairs with but, I do keep a little extra lumber, pipe, ect around for smaller repairs and improvements.

Two wood stoves along with a dual head mini-split and ceiling fans keep the house comfortable year round using wood and power produced onsite except for the gas to run the saws. Since we can't make gasoline we keep a good supply of store bought fuel onsite.

Everyone in this house works full time, we buy most of our food, clothes, ect at local stores so we are by no means "self-sufficient".


----------



## Blendingin

tonybluegoat said:


> About 7 years my wife and I bought a "homestead." What's a homestead, it's land that supports a diverse set of activities that all work together to support an independent lifestyle.
> 
> Garden/Farming, Small Animal Husbandry, Orchard, Water collection, Food Storage, Making your own products like soap and pottery, building, fencing, energy independence, medicine (traditional and modern), hunting, canning and preserving, etc.
> 
> I had read every homestead blog I could find, had dozens of books - both general and specific. It turned out that every homestead blog petered out after about 3 years and turned from a general homesteading blog into something else... what depended on the blogger.. or it just ended. I know why.
> 
> Homesteading is a dead end. Generalized self-sufficiency is a very expensive and impossible fantasy that has no basis in reality. We did it all, and have done it all. We did everything in the book over years of trying. It turns out you can't grow cell phone service or car insurance or gasoline (even though I did make ethanol/moonshine for a year). In the end it was all "possible" but none of it was "self-sufficient." It took so many inputs that had to be purchased it was easier and more logical to just purchase the final product.
> 
> That's why I went from a homesteading prepper to a storage prepper. How long will the emergency last? A year? Then store a year's worth of food, energy, have water collection, done... oh yea and guns/ammo. I have multiple of the same car, multiple of the same motorcycle, tractor, truck, all that. So just BUY IT!
> 
> *So here's the question. What prepper skills do you actually DO or HAVE DONE LONG ENOUGH that you are 100% confident that you have both the skills and resources to do them if you need to?*
> 
> *The next question is what do you KNOW based on ACTUAL FACTUAL experience that others (without the real experience) don't.
> *
> 
> I absolutely, positively know how to can food - particularly meat. It's my goto method of preservation. I've canned every type of meat from game to chicken. 3 times a year I can at least 100 lbs of meat at a time. It takes a lot of resources that if you don't already have them you are screwed. Energy, Big Canners, not the cheap junk, and lots of jars and lids already on hand.
> 
> I absolutely know how to raise goats, meat rabbits and chickens. But I also know that without FEED it is pretty much impossible to get any decent production. Of the three Goats are the most sustainable because they are the best at self-sufficiency... but I live in Texas where there is browse almost all year and no snow. The key resource to stockpile with goats is Wormer. They get worms pretty easily.
> 
> Finally, the actual factual thing I know that most people don't is that in the country there already exists a secondary economy beyond just bartering with your neighbors. There are multiple small animal auction houses and large animal auction houses that operate every week rain, shine or sleet. The most interesting one is the small animal auction. They sell everything from bags of potatoes to eggs to farm equipment to chickens, turkeys, goats and small cows. Plus thousands of more things. It is the place where you can BRING just about anything to sell and you can BUY just about anything (but guns). So in a true collapse there will be a working economy in the countryside. Money, no money, banks, no banks, the structure is already there and operates week in and week out. (look one up near you... they are fascinating). I have sold animals and bought lots of stuff at my local small animal auction house.
> 
> I also know that "homesteading" is a magazine fantasy that has no basis in reality. I don't think it ever did. The idea of being self sufficient as a family unit has never been true. The plains got homesteaded when the RAILROAD was laid. why? Because it could bring STUFF from other places and take farm produce TO other places for money. Homesteaders needed money and credit, manufactured goods, etc. just like everyone else. And they mostly just produced one or two products... just like having a job today. I guarantee they didn't make their own lye soap if they had an extra nickel for a bar of fragrant soap from the east. They made their own because they were mostly poor. Land rich, cash poor.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Only stuff you, personally, do or have done to a pretty deep extent.
> 
> Here are pics from just one Spring on the homestead... stuff I actually do.
> 
> View attachment 82655
> 
> Raising "Naked Neck" chickens (called Turkens, large robust egg and meat birds... it was a bust)
> 
> View attachment 82657
> 
> Canning 50 lbs of chicken and stock - excellent results repeated often
> 
> View attachment 82659
> 
> Cutting wood to heat 100% wood based for the winter - it went really well I prefer wood heat and still do it, but my wife prefers electric heat (over wood or propane) so my winter electric bills aren't great... women! Funny story, that truckload of wood was given to me by a neighbor in exchange for a pie I made... a pie! Even though he has land he doesn't use wood heat. It turns out that most people who live in the country are all-electric. They aren't preppers. They are people with a job in town who want to be able to turn a thermostat on the wall.
> 
> View attachment 82661
> 
> View attachment 82663
> 
> I found it's easier to maintain a garden with a large tiller than with my giant tractor. It doesn't take much of a garden to make WAY MORE food than you can eat. If most people paid attention to how much it cost to garden and then preserve the food they might find (like I did) that it's cheaper and easier to just buy canned vegetables. Fresh Tomatoes, peppers and green beans are good. But you can literally grow those in your suburban back yard. 6 of each plant will probably produce more than you can eat over a summer.
> 
> View attachment 82665
> 
> View attachment 82667
> 
> lots of eggs for both eating and incubating. The idea of using chicken eggs or chickens as the basis of any sort of income is a dead end. You wouldn't think it but it is. Way too expensive to make and too hard to sell at any volume.
> 
> I'm out of attachments (only 7 allowed) I also milled my own wood and did other stuff. That was Spring of 2014.
> 
> The #1 prepper skill I developed over the past 7 years is the requirement to have very little MONEY. I call it being Poor on Purpose. I make money but I don't NEED money. Everything I own from my farm to my vehicles is paid for.... I have stockpiled the parts and skills necessary to keep what I have operational without money. I have food and energy required to live for a year on no cash. And no one is going to come try to foreclose. My property taxes are $308 per year. I always have the cash I need to get through a year if I can't work. In a non-emergency situation I can live on $800 per month - because I like to have cable TV and internet, etc. In an emergency where I have to cut back I can live on $450 per month. In a SHTF I can live on almost nothing and have enough cash on hand to cover whatever I can't ignore (like taxes and electricity - if it's still available).
> 
> My greatest fear was foreclosure, repossession or having an inability to sustain things because of debt. I fixed that problem. I know for many/most it's not an option they want to sacrifice for. But that doesn't mean you can't make a "lifeboat" that is paid off... a little land and a paid off RV to live on it.
> 
> I know a lady who was a prepper in the ghetto. Not inner city ghetto... the part of town where the poorest people live. She bought two vacant lots next to each other in a tax auction and she turned them into a homestead... composting toilet, animals, gardening, water collection. The whole 9 yards. I don't think it's sustainable in a "let's go shoot the lady with the chickens" type emergency. But it was interesting and she lived on almost no money.


I think your wrong. Even though we may not be homesteaders as those who settled here first, we still can be self sufficient. By this I mean make enough on our property to support our needs. That doesn't mean get rich but enough to get what we need.

Sent from my STV100-2 using Tapatalk


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## tirednurse

Here is an example of my way of doing things. 

Rabbits. One doe will have, on average, 10 kits. 
A doe can be bred and have a litter in about 4 weeks. When the kits are 2- 3 weeks old she can be bred again so when kits are weaned at 5 weeks she will have another litter at 6 weeks. 
Kits are grown out to 8-10 weeks and butcher at about 5 pounds. 
One rabbit will feed 4 or 5 adults. More if in soups or stews. So every 6 weeks at the most one doe will produce at least 40 adult portions of meat. In pounds this is about 30 pounds of meat. 
I personally keep 24 does and 6 bucks. This means a lot of extra rabbit meat. I sell this extra to people who found me. I did not advertise and put no effort into finding buyers. The butchered rabbit sells for $7 a pound. Average around $20 per rabbit. 
In my climate I can breed all year. So my does will have 8 litters a year and produce around 80 bunnies or about 240 pounds of meat. At $7 a pound this is $1700 each doe. Or for my 24 does...you do the math. 
Now out of this you will need to account for Feed, equipments and in my case shrink wrap freezer bags. Since I have been raising rabbits forever, I don't have any housing costs and my water system was installed years ago for less than $50. Biggest expense would be Feed. My garden supplies most of their food including extra apples etc from my trees. My rabbits are on a diet of multiple root veggies plus what I have extra of lettuce and cabbage families, strawberries tomatoes, zucchini, beet turnip radish and rutabaga tops (in addition to the root portion). I also grow a small plot of forage grasses and the seed cost is less than $50 a year and only because I choose to reseed. I don't really need to. I do buy hay every year to use as bedding and part of their diet. I might use 1 bale of hay every 2-3 weeks with my rabbits during the winter between November and March. So about 8-10 Bales @$3 each. Most of the time, unless weather is to nasty the rabbits live in tractors that are moved once or twice a week, so they eat a lot of grasses they pick themselves.
I replace my does about every 2 years and bucks at about 4. Since I have so many different lines in my breeders, I do not have to buy replacements just choose from my own stock. 
All said and done I can easily produce enough just on rabbits to pay for any extras I need here. Especially since I don't have a mortgage payment and try to live completely debt free. 
In addition to rabbits I also do the same with my chickens ducks geese turkeys goats and Pigs. If an animal can not produce enough to pay its way here they don't stay. 

In addition to animals I have my fruit trees and bushes and large Gardens that provide me as much fruit and veggies as we can eat over the year plus extras.

Edit because I forgot, I should also mention that all animals produce a byproduct called poop. Poop can be sold as an additional part of the profit. Rabbit poop especially can make you some money. I sell a 10 gallon size bucket full for $5, they supply the bucket. People will also by composted manure from other animals. Yes!!!!! people will pay for poop. who would have guessed? 

I also sell the rabbit hides since I have no time for tanning them myself. I also sell dead kits to people for use as snake food. 
there are all kinds of ways to make money on a farm. the problem most have is that they are stupid about what they do, get caught up in trying to get rich and have to much debt to start with, or spend way more than they can recover before they give up.


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## Jammer Six

I would bet it's skill, not location, that makes success.

For one thing, skill would know either how to make it in a substandard location, or to avoid getting stuck on such a location in the first place.


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## K7JLJ

> What do You Personally Actually Do... not just read/talk about.


I have / do:

raise chickens
take care of sheep (not for slaughter)
harvest rain water for ag and drinking
practice patrolling surrounding 200 acres of forest to know my AO pre-SHTF 
established early warning systems via trip wires and shotshell alarms
work HF comms from 50 miles away at work via NVIS
make sourdough from scratch with a hand grinder
cook in the sun oven on occasion as well as dry vegetables from the garden
competed for 10 years in IDPA/IPSC/3Gun as well as shot long range and competed in one Sniper Match
practiced clearing my house / property with white light and NV
etc.

The last few years have been learning HAM radio for post SHTF use.

My plan is to store food for a year for a MAG to be formed from neighbors, homesteading is not a real option IMO also, especially considering the magnet that you will become and amount of bodies needed to defend an obvious homestead.


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## mobius999

Sasquatch said:


> Well let me point this out, there are 385 pages with 20 threads each in the General Prepper Talk section. That's approximately 7500 threads, most of which cover what you are talking about in your "distinct" thread. Did you even bother to look? Did you use the search function? And most of the, as you refer to them, Senior Snark Squad have participated in a great number of those threads because they've been here a long time. Not only have they been here a long time but they have contributed heavily and helped build a community/family right here on this site.
> 
> We have a lot of new people come through here, some of which come in the door guns a blazin'. When a new person comes into this community they are typically welcomed with cautious enthusiasm. Enthusiasm goes right out the window and caution becomes a roadblock when someone comes in with a hard edge.
> 
> You are welcome here and, if you don't want to search out previous threads on topics that have been discussed ad nauseum, feel free to start your own. Just try to remember where you are and that you are new.


I'd like to chime in as a new member that came here more for the information than for the discussion (ie I lurk, I don't post). The general purpose of a forum is to POST stuff, and discuss it. Tony has it dead on that there are a few grumpy people on here that jump on every new person who posts an idea or opinion.

This is one of the slowest forums I've ever seen as far as new posts, new content, new ideas. Wonder why?

If you haven't been around forever a few grumpy aholes show up and bitch you out.

A moderator tells you to sift through thousand of dead threads instead of having a NEW discussion.

Really?

This thread is the best thing I've read on this website in some time. Thank you Tony for not just disappearing like most do when the old angry trolls try and shut you up and make you just read their musty old dead threads.


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## tirednurse

While I have to agree that new topics here are few and far between, that does not mean you should not research on your own prior to asking a question that has been discussed a thousand times already. It gets very old to watch new members come in that all say the same thing. either they claim to know it all, or know nothing. Asking questions that have been discussed endlessly is a waste of time. If you have read through the old posts on your subject and still have questions, ask in the old post. or if you have some brilliant new insight start a new thread with some actual content. 

Yes some of the old men on this sight can have a tendency to test the new ones. This is because you need to be tested. If you are unable to take it then how are you going to make it in real life? nobody wants to waste their time on people who are going to give up when things get tough. There also seem to be a large number of people sitting in their mother's basements that just join sites like this to cause trouble. Got to weed them out.


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## Slippy

mobius999 said:


> I'd like to chime in as a new member that came here more for the information than for the discussion (ie I lurk, I don't post). The general purpose of a forum is to POST stuff, and discuss it. Tony has it dead on that there are a few grumpy people on here that jump on every new person who posts an idea or opinion.
> 
> This is one of the slowest forums I've ever seen as far as new posts, new content, new ideas. Wonder why?
> 
> If you haven't been around forever a few grumpy aholes show up and bitch you out.
> 
> A moderator tells you to sift through thousand of dead threads instead of having a NEW discussion.
> 
> Really?
> 
> This thread is the best thing I've read on this website in some time. Thank you Tony for not just disappearing like most do when the old angry trolls try and shut you up and make you just read their musty old dead threads.


You should name those old angry trolls. Don't be a coward who says we have a problem then not offer a solution.


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## hawgrider

Slippy said:


> You should name those old angry trolls. Don't be a coward who says we have a problem then not offer a solution.


Im thinking the bloated goat brought a peanut gallery with him.

Thin skinned whiny cry baby people won't last 2 days let alone 2 weeks in a real event that requires survival and prepper skills. They need to put some preparation H on the butt hurt.

Toughen up newbies and take your dose of reality. You wont find any rainbows and unicorns here or in real life.


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## Jammer Six

Waitwaitwait...

You guys are claiming that "lasting" on a forum somehow equates to survival?

You need to get away from your keyboard more.


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## bigwheel

Slippy said:


> You should name those old angry trolls. Don't be a coward who says we have a problem then not offer a solution.


No need to get an FBI fact finding investigation going on this. I am apparently the guilty culprit aka alleged perp...judging from checking my private message account. I didnt not realize what an insensitive brute I have become. Hanging on here too much must be what causes it...cause I did not used to be like that. I apologized profusely an promised to never do it again..as I was trained. A person dont need any more enemies than necessary huh?


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## MisterMills357

Jammer Six said:


> Waitwaitwait...
> 
> You guys are claiming that "lasting" on a forum somehow equates to survival?
> 
> You need to get away from your keyboard more.


I survived a man who was high on coke; and he popped me in the head, and arm, with a tube leg from an old steel folding table. It went downhill from there, and I used a Buck knife to end it. I have bona fides, some people have those, so don't be tooo... quick in making assessments.

I understand that your comment was not directed at me, and I am not chastising you.

It is merely a note from me to you, and anyone who reads this. I have a knife on me at all times, and I carry a steel pole as a walking stick. And yes, I will kill anyone that tries to kill me. And I realize that society has become beastly, there are beasts amongst us now; and for that, I blame secular humanism and atheism; and all of those things that hate Christ.

And those are some things that I actually do, on an everyday basis, I am always ready for a fight to the death. I will kill anyone who shows up with a gun, and opens up, I will kill him.

Or he will kill me, and that is fine, but I won't be cowed by anyone or anything; because I am as brave as Hell in ways, and I don't care if I die trying to kill an attacker. There are worse ways to go.

PS: that avatar under my username, that Airborne tab was earned by me, at the age of 37. There are people here who are not keyboard commandos. OK I am done. God Bless.


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## hawgrider

Jammer Six said:


> Waitwaitwait...
> 
> You need to get away from your keyboard more.


Practice what you preach Jammies.


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## bigwheel

Good point hawgrider..how could be be blabbing at us if he wasn't on his keyboard too much?


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## Jammer Six

Well, there's the internet repeater thingie on the boat...


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## Prepared One

Slippy said:


> You should name those old angry trolls. Don't be a coward who says we have a problem then not offer a solution.


Honestly! I have no freakin idea what the hell he is talking bout old friend. :vs_lol:


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## K7JLJ

> WELCOME TO THE PREPPER FORUM / SURVIVALIST FORUM.
> Ask any question in regards to prepping or survival. Don't worry if its been asked before, we like new comers concerns.


At the top of this thread I see the above. Hmmmm... Forums are suppose to be interactive, not a book repository.

How about either answering the question the post asks or ignoring it? Instead people want to crap on it and the OP, why is that?


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## Sasquatch

mobius999 said:


> I'd like to chime in as a new member that came here more for the information than for the discussion (ie I lurk, I don't post). The general purpose of a forum is to POST stuff, and discuss it. Tony has it dead on that there are a few grumpy people on here that jump on every new person who posts an idea or opinion.
> 
> This is one of the slowest forums I've ever seen as far as new posts, new content, new ideas. Wonder why?
> 
> If you haven't been around forever a few grumpy aholes show up and bitch you out.
> 
> A moderator tells you to sift through thousand of dead threads instead of having a NEW discussion.
> 
> Really?
> 
> This thread is the best thing I've read on this website in some time. Thank you Tony for not just disappearing like most do when the old angry trolls try and shut you up and make you just read their musty old dead threads.


Hi @mobius999 thanks for being here and for posting! Now allow me to retort. I went back and read the OP and I suggest you do the same if you don't fully remember it. Tony came here and made a claim in his post. Another member called him on that claim. That's when Tony replied with an insulting name (that in itself is enough for an infraction). If a person can't back up their claim or do it without name calling I suggest that person not make the post.

You say you came here for the information more than the discussion. Let me ask you, what did you learn from the OP? I learned Tony tried to do something and failed. Okay, that's fine. I didn't learn how to can, raise livestock, garden, fish, shoot, give first aid, bail hay, drive a tractor, dig a well, raise a barn. I didn't learn any of that stuff from the OP because it wasn't there. What I did learn is the only thing to be learned, Tony had tried it. So I'm not really sure what information you were looking for in this thread. I read through the thread again and people, for lack of a better term, bragged about things they have done. Did I learn anything from that? No, except that those people did some stuff. Knowing people did some stuff doesn't help anyone prepping.

What I'm pointing out here is this post had no useful information. No "how to" instructions. Just pictures and words of what people did. Not saying people can't post a thread like this. Just saying you're not going to get much useful information from it. Now, as to those "dead threads" you spoke of, I know for a fact there are plenty of them that DO have "how to" instructions on many things. And many of those threads were started by the few grumpy aholes you mentioned.

You, Tony or anyone else is welcome to be here and ask questions. But what we long timers see when a new person shows up and doesn't bother searching through the archives of useful information is a person who wants someone else to do all the work for them. And sometimes when you ask a question that has been asked a hundred times before one of the old grumps will do the work of finding the old thread and linking it in his reply. But most of the time we don't like doing the work for other people.

Finally I'll say this. When anyone enters a new place its a good idea to show a little respect and humility to the people that already inhabit that place. Would you walk into a new job the first day being the loud guy making demands? Would you meet a significant others parents in their home for the first time and try to rule the roost? No, the right way to do things is like I mentioned...a little respect and humility.

Mobius I hope you and anyone else reading this reply sticks around and gets to know the angry old trolls and the knowledge they have already shared here. If not then I wish you the best of luck in whatever it is you do.


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## Jammer Six

I disagree with only one secondary facet, Sasquatch.

Perhaps the worst problem with the internet as a source of information is overload. There's too much information, and no way to tell which parts are good information and which aren't.

The information that someone has done something (or, actually, since this is the internet, that someone _claims_ to have done something) could be a valuable piece of information if it can be located in time.

If you want to raise a barn, a pro is, no doubt about it, your best choice. Following that, I would listen to someone who has done it, even if just to find out what not to do.

It's why I don't listen to anyone born after 1970 about Vietnam.


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## inceptor

Sasquatch said:


> Hi @mobius999 thanks for being here and for posting! Now allow me to retort. I went back and read the OP and I suggest you do the same if you don't fully remember it. Tony came here and made a claim in his post. Another member called him on that claim. That's when Tony replied with an insulting name (that in itself is enough for an infraction). If a person can't back up their claim or do it without name calling I suggest that person not make the post.
> 
> You say you came here for the information more than the discussion. Let me ask you, what did you learn from the OP? I learned Tony tried to do something and failed. Okay, that's fine. I didn't learn how to can, raise livestock, garden, fish, shoot, give first aid, bail hay, drive a tractor, dig a well, raise a barn. I didn't learn any of that stuff from the OP because it wasn't there. What I did learn is the only thing to be learned, Tony had tried it. So I'm not really sure what information you were looking for in this thread. I read through the thread again and people, for lack of a better term, bragged about things they have done. Did I learn anything from that? No, except that those people did some stuff. Knowing people did some stuff doesn't help anyone prepping.
> 
> What I'm pointing out here is this post had no useful information. Now "how to" instructions. Just pictures and words of what people did. Not saying people can't post a thread like this. Just saying you're not going to get much useful information from it. Now, as to those "dead threads" you spoke of, I know for a fact there are plenty of them that DO have "how to" instructions on many things. And many of those threads were started by the few grumpy aholes you mentioned.
> 
> You, Tony or anyone else is welcome to be here and ask questions. But what we long timers see when a new person shows up and doesn't bother searching through the archives of useful information is a person who wants someone else to do all the work for them. And sometimes when you ask a question that has been asked a hundred times before one of the old grumps will do the work of finding the old thread and linking it in his reply. But most of the time we don't like doing the work for other people.
> 
> Finally I'll say this. When anyone enters a new place its a good idea to show a little respect and humility to the people that already inhabit that place. Would you walk into a new job the first day being the loud guy making demands? Would you meet a significant others parents in their home for the first time and try to rule the roost? No, the right way to do things is like I mentioned...a little respect and humility.
> 
> Mobius I hope you and anyone else reading this reply sticks around and gets to know the angry old trolls and the knowledge they have already shared here. If not then I wish you the best of luck in whatever it is you do.


Well stated my friend. :vs_clap:

When I am considering something new, I do research. I usually hit multiple sources. When I have questions about that subject, I'll ask.

Yes in this information age, one can get overloaded. But conducting research (as in looking in past threads here or elsewhere) should be part of what you're doing. Just wanting someone to tell you how is lazy. What works for one person may not work for another. Sometimes when researching a subject the search results will take me to boards I've never heard of. Some of that information is years old but the info is still good.

I know we now live in an instant gratification age but to expect it constantly is not reasonable.

Don't get me wrong, asking questions is a good thing. Just don't expect others to do all of your research.


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## SGT E

I reload and make wine and make corn based biofuel...I have a very large stockpile of guns and ammo as well as food...I garden in the summer and dont in the winter (SCREW KALE) I have solar power and heat by wood and natural gas. Everyone needs one of these....Solves a lot of problems!

https://www.walmart.com/ip/8-Gal-30...ess-Steel-Boiler-Copper-Thumper-Keg/680583463


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## K7JLJ

> Knowing people did some stuff doesn't help anyone prepping.


Actually it does, it lets me know who I can ask questions of about certain topics. I'll show you right now...

SGT E,
I've never seen that shine setup before but it's a lot cheaper than ones I've looked at thanks for the link. Now that I' know you have made biofuel, can you point me to any resources that you recommend and since I know nothing about it, I'll ask a possibly stupid question.... Can it be used in a chain saw if oil is added for a 2 stroke?


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## SGT E

K7JLJ said:


> Actually it does, it lets me know who I can ask questions of about certain topics. I'll show you right now...
> 
> SGT E,
> I've never seen that shine setup before but it's a lot cheaper than ones I've looked at thanks for the link. Now that I' know you have made biofuel, can you point me to any resources that you recommend and since I know nothing about it, I'll ask a possibly stupid question.... Can it be used in a chain saw if oil is added for a 2 stroke?


I've ran a lawnmower engine from alcohol and a generator that's got a briggs on it but never a two stroke engine like a chain saw as of yet (See too many failures on Google LOL!)Back when Ethanol in gas 10% first came out it killed multiple weed eaters and leaf blowers and gaumed up a lot of older lawnmowers / Snowblowers. Today most 4 stroke engines have been modified factory wise to last on the ethanol as they even recommend "REGULAR" gas in the manuals.

The biggest problem I've encountered is heat!..Alcohol makes double the heat in a 4 stroke engine. Oil problems are pretty nil. Oil and alcohol don't mix well so lubrication problems of cylinders and valves are pretty much the same as gasoline. One other thing in an old gasoline engine...alcohol seems to be a heck of a cleaner and can remove deposits making it squeaky clean only to have the deposits wind up somewhere else. Lots of info on Google about the subject and even guys running mowers on rubbing alcohol (70%) keep in mind your pouring 30% water into your engine with this mix and it produces less power than the purest alcohol. While I know it would produce less heat rust would probably destroy a lot of stuff as well. I won't tell anyone it's fine to do but I will tell you its worthwhile experimenting with. I'm looking at water cooled engines at the moment and may purchase one soon to play around with. Running a generator in the cold winter would be no problem at all. You and your genny could sit and have a sip together!


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## tirednurse

inceptor said:


> Well stated my friend. :vs_clap:
> 
> When I am considering something new, I do research. I usually hit multiple sources. When I have questions about that subject, I'll ask.
> 
> Yes in this information age, one can get overloaded. But conducting research (as in looking in past threads here or elsewhere) should be part of what you're doing. Just wanting someone to tell you how is lazy. What works for one person may not work for another. Sometimes when researching a subject the search results will take me to boards I've never heard of. Some of that information is years old but the info is still good.
> 
> I know we now live in an instant gratification age but to expect it constantly is not reasonable.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, asking questions is a good thing. Just don't expect others to do all of your research.


 @inceptor, this is how I feel also. I don't mind guiding people through learning a new task, but I don't feel I should devote all my time to doing so. I am not getting paid for my time and I don't have enough of it to give out for free.

I learned what I know by research and lots of experience. Nobody handed it to me. I don't even think you really learn anything unless you are the one researching and then doing yourself. Just like when teaching children, we show them the task and explain as we go. Then we have them do it themselves and guide them as they make their mistakes until they know how to do it correctly. Learning a new task will not happen just by hearing how it is done. We need to be doing it to learn it.

I have taught many people how to do things like grow a garden, raise different animals with all included from birth to death. food storage methods, cooking, and cleaning. I have taught people how to knit, crochet, sew and mend. I have taught people to build simple buildings, repair them, wire electric and plumbing installation and repair of all kinds. I have even taught my children simple repairs and maintenance of their vehicles although I hate anything having to do with motors. Basically anything having to do with owning a farm. On the job, I teach others how to heal, comfort, protect life and guide patients and their loved ones through the process of death. I can honestly say I teach some one something daily. Today with my grandsons simple cooking at breakfast and then some dry food storage. They are 8 and 6 and follow me everywhere absorbing like sponges.

All that teaching doesn't matter though if the recipient doesn't have it in their heart to learn and retain it. Prove to me that you are willing and ready to learn what I have to teach and I will pour out every ounce of knowledge I have to give. I don't feel it is necessary to post teaching videos or tutorials here either, there are enough of those on every subject you could think of. That is called research.


----------



## K7JLJ

> I don't feel it is necessary to post teaching videos or tutorials here either, there are enough of those on every subject you could think of. That is called research.


Gotta disagree on this one. When I was trying to learn Digital Comms from the internet it was very frustrating and not having a local mentor I was stumped until I ran into a guy (OH8STN)that does exactly that, posts videos on how to do it precisely.



> Don't get me wrong, asking questions is a good thing. Just don't expect others to do all of your research.


There are some that want to be spoon fed, but many are just up against a roadblock and need some direction. The ones that keep opening their mouths like a baby bird waiting for food, get pushed out of the nest eventually. We had a guy in a radio forum doing just that until he was told to "do the work" after several spoon fulls and he turned into a great asset sharing what he was learning.

[RANT ON]
My point is... we don't want to beat up on newbs asking "obvious" questions. We are only limiting our potential future resources by making them feel small.

Only bullies act this way (berating people for lack of knowledge) and personally I can't stand bullies, which the OP obviously can't either. 
On the internet you get away with rude behavior, in meat space you get knocked out.

It costs us nothing to share our knowledge of what the topic is, even if you have before or someone else has. At the least, post that it's been covered and where, but just because there are 10 previous threads that are close to the questions being asked, usually it does not answer the specifics of the questions I'm asking or it is OLD info.

Forums die when OLD members get tired of sharing and badger newbs. I hope that's not the case here.[RANT OFF]


----------



## bigwheel

K7JLJ said:


> At the top of this thread I see the above. Hmmmm... Forums are suppose to be interactive, not a book repository.
> 
> How about either answering the question the post asks or ignoring it? Instead people want to crap on it and the OP, why is that?


Good point. I aint a good source for prepper information cause I aint read all that stuff either..but anybody want to hear what I dont know I be glad to tell em. lol.


----------



## Sasquatch

K7JLJ said:


> [RANT ON]
> My point is... we don't want to beat up on newbs asking "obvious" questions. We are only limiting our potential future resources by making them feel small.
> 
> Only bullies act this way (berating people for lack of knowledge) and personally I can't stand bullies, which the OP obviously can't either.
> On the internet you get away with rude behavior, in meat space you get knocked out.
> 
> It costs us nothing to share our knowledge of what the topic is, even if you have before or someone else has. At the least, post that it's been covered and where, but just because there are 10 previous threads that are close to the questions being asked, usually it does not answer the specifics of the questions I'm asking or it is OLD info.
> 
> Forums die when OLD members get tired of sharing and badger newbs. I hope that's not the case here.[RANT OFF]


As I stated in a previous post maybe you should go back and read the first 3 posts in the thread. A claim was made, the claim was challenged and then the name calling was started by the OP. If I'm going to come here and claim something I better be ready to back it up. And if I'm new I might want to do it respectfully.

The reason I mentioned respect and humility for senior members earlier is because I learned from experience. When I first came to this forum I was new to prepping and eager to learn. I was also cocky thinking I found this great new thing called prepping. I came into this forum "guns a blazin" and fought with senior members here. I got my ass spanked a few times. I soon realized these big ol' mean grumpy aholes weren't being mean grumpy aholes but rather protecting the community they helped build. The choice was then mine, did I want to butt heads and fight with people or did I want to take a step back and give them the respect they had earned long before I got here. I'm a mod now so answer that question for yourself.

We here give each other a hard time all the time. It's a friendly banter (like you'd see between brothers or old friends). If people, especially newbs, are serious about prepping for SHTF I suggest they start by growing a thicker skin because when an emergency rises one of the first things to go out the window is niceties.


----------



## K7JLJ

Summary of 1st three posts....

Post #1


> In the end it was all "possible" but none of it was "self-sufficient." It took so many inputs that had to be purchased it was easier and more logical to just purchase the final product.
> 
> That's why I went from a homesteading prepper to a storage prepper. How long will the emergency last? A year? Then store a year's worth of food, energy, have water collection, done... oh yea and guns/ammo.


Post #2


> So you did 7 years of homesteading and failed. And you figure thats it nobody could possibly homestead without failure.
> Thanks for the chuckle.


Post #3


> You are a Chuckle-head. For an old fart you sure are sensitive. Perhaps you should just ignore noobs... they are stupid and have nothing to add. Stick with the old men you already know and like.
> 
> How many years of homesteading have you done. Spend a month not going to the store, ever, for anything. If you have share it.


Post #4


> es I have a sense of humor... don't like it.... Wah!
> 
> You come in here with a 7 year experience of failure and cut down the folks on this forum by insinuating nobody here has done anything? Nope you are right you're the smartest guy in the room nobody here has done the miraculous things you have done. You not only failed at homesteading for 7 years you fail at fitting in with the group. You don't have many friends do you.


And then the PILE ON starts. Ok, the guy came off wrong, but the MATURE senior forum members got butthurt and kept it going instead of addressing the real issue they had with him (his attitude) and you end up with 12 pages of BS.

Each time someone tried to turn it back to the topic, more BS was added instead of ignoring it so it gets derailed over and over. If it's an issue with his attitude, put him in timeout as a mod, talk to him in PM, close the thread with "bad behavior won't be tolerated" and move on. Instead I see a bunch of people trying to defend their bad behavior like they should be allowed to get away with it because they are "founding fathers" or something.

Anyway, I'm out. Thanks for your consideration of what I'm trying to say, if you made one.


----------



## tonybluegoat

tirednurse said:


> You are wrong. I headed into work right now so don't have time for details or arguments but I've lived this way for 20 years. I raise my Pigs totally free. I have rabbits chickens turkeys geese ducks and goats that I raise for profit who also provide my food without costing me anything. I also grow all of the fruit and veggies I eat as well as what I Feed my animals. Cost is only the seeds I did not save from the year before.
> I make enough off my property to pay for the extras like electric and Internet. I've done it without having an outside job. However I do work to support my aging parents as well as my own future.
> Maybe you just need to do more research or give up trying to get rich and live a simpler lifestyle.


I would love to hear more if you want to share it.


----------



## tonybluegoat

WhatTheHeck said:


> I think location is what is dictating degrees of success.
> 
> I have been raising chickens, cows, ducks, pigs and rabbits now for six or seven years now.
> 
> During the outdoors months, with exception of the pigs, everyone else is strictly free range. No feed. Chickens, pigs and rabbits do get scraps.
> The pigs have to get some feed, about a five gallon bucket a day. The rest is what they eat out on pasture. If I did not give them feed, they would not come up to slaughter weight by November. I do not want to over winter them. Hence the feed.
> 
> I have several raised bed gardens in various stages.
> 
> We do can.
> 
> Winter time, the rabbits and chickens do require feed. Less than the dogs.
> In the summer, the rabbits make great lawn mowers. Never had an issue with worms. Again, I think location may dictate that.
> 
> Honestly hay and wood are my most likely limiting factors. I can and have used a hand scythe to make hay. Over 90 days for six goats.
> Could I do it now with the additional livestock. Probably. Just take planning. Weather is a more important factor.
> Wood, I could harvest what we have on our own property. But the wife and I are more of the mindset, lets pay to take wood off someone else, and save ours for if SHTF.
> 
> I try to do everything now as if S has already HTF.
> 
> EDIT: Wheat. We make our own bread once or twice a week. I have grown small plots of wheat and other grains, but not enough to last a whole year.


How many rabbits do you keep? Based on what I'm hearing I might get back into meat rabbits? I thought about growing grain, but it seems like the harvesting by hand is a bit more than I am interested in actually doing. Prepping flour in mylar and rotating it seems to work for me. But I understand why you do it. The only way to know how to do something is to do it. I'm interested in hearing more about free ranging your rabbits. To be honest my neighbor told me not to because of the worms. I never tried it. How do you keep them contained? Do you just keep them in a group? What about kitting?


----------



## tonybluegoat

Elvis said:


> From previous posts I've read I suspect that TiredNurse is the person on this site who lives the life the most.
> 
> In my case each morning I collect eggs and cook my breakfast in a solar power heated skillet and bread baked in my wood fired dome oven and covered with honey from my hives or jam we made using fruit from our property. Apple, plumb, and peach trees give us fruit in season and we dry and make apple butter with the apples. The milk is store bought but all electricity is made on the property. Supper is also often wood cooked. Well water and septic because there are no county water lines this far out. My and neighbors gardens provide some of what we eat along with hunting on my place. We don't raise farm animals for meat but have some ability to do so including a butchering area with clean water. I do most property repairs myself using my tools and skills but still need to purchase most of the materials to do larger repairs with but, I do keep a little extra lumber, pipe, ect around for smaller repairs and improvements.
> 
> Two wood stoves along with a dual head mini-split and ceiling fans keep the house comfortable year round using wood and power produced onsite except for the gas to run the saws. Since we can't make gasoline we keep a good supply of store bought fuel onsite.
> 
> Everyone in this house works full time, we buy most of our food, clothes, ect at local stores so we are by no means "self-sufficient".


That sounds great. Isn't it nice to live out where you have the space to do this? We have peach trees and I make pear butter from my neighbor's trees. It's funny even though they have land and trees they don't know how to can things. Did you install your own mini-split. We are using window units because the central AC was so old that it was incredibly inefficient. But I've been looking at mini-splits for years. My issue is that I would need a professional installer with vacuum pumps and such. What are your thoughts concerning those verses window units? What brand do you have/


----------



## tonybluegoat

tirednurse said:


> Here is an example of my way of doing things.
> 
> Rabbits. One doe will have, on average, 10 kits.
> A doe can be bred and have a litter in about 4 weeks. When the kits are 2- 3 weeks old she can be bred again so when kits are weaned at 5 weeks she will have another litter at 6 weeks.
> Kits are grown out to 8-10 weeks and butcher at about 5 pounds.
> One rabbit will feed 4 or 5 adults. More if in soups or stews. So every 6 weeks at the most one doe will produce at least 40 adult portions of meat. In pounds this is about 30 pounds of meat.
> I personally keep 24 does and 6 bucks. This means a lot of extra rabbit meat. I sell this extra to people who found me. I did not advertise and put no effort into finding buyers. The butchered rabbit sells for $7 a pound. Average around $20 per rabbit.
> In my climate I can breed all year. So my does will have 8 litters a year and produce around 80 bunnies or about 240 pounds of meat. At $7 a pound this is $1700 each doe. Or for my 24 does...you do the math.
> Now out of this you will need to account for Feed, equipments and in my case shrink wrap freezer bags. Since I have been raising rabbits forever, I don't have any housing costs and my water system was installed years ago for less than $50. Biggest expense would be Feed. My garden supplies most of their food including extra apples etc from my trees. My rabbits are on a diet of multiple root veggies plus what I have extra of lettuce and cabbage families, strawberries tomatoes, zucchini, beet turnip radish and rutabaga tops (in addition to the root portion). I also grow a small plot of forage grasses and the seed cost is less than $50 a year and only because I choose to reseed. I don't really need to. I do buy hay every year to use as bedding and part of their diet. I might use 1 bale of hay every 2-3 weeks with my rabbits during the winter between November and March. So about 8-10 Bales @$3 each. Most of the time, unless weather is to nasty the rabbits live in tractors that are moved once or twice a week, so they eat a lot of grasses they pick themselves.
> I replace my does about every 2 years and bucks at about 4. Since I have so many different lines in my breeders, I do not have to buy replacements just choose from my own stock.
> All said and done I can easily produce enough just on rabbits to pay for any extras I need here. Especially since I don't have a mortgage payment and try to live completely debt free.
> In addition to rabbits I also do the same with my chickens ducks geese turkeys goats and Pigs. If an animal can not produce enough to pay its way here they don't stay.
> 
> In addition to animals I have my fruit trees and bushes and large Gardens that provide me as much fruit and veggies as we can eat over the year plus extras.
> 
> Edit because I forgot, I should also mention that all animals produce a byproduct called poop. Poop can be sold as an additional part of the profit. Rabbit poop especially can make you some money. I sell a 10 gallon size bucket full for $5, they supply the bucket. People will also by composted manure from other animals. Yes!!!!! people will pay for poop. who would have guessed?
> 
> I also sell the rabbit hides since I have no time for tanning them myself. I also sell dead kits to people for use as snake food.
> there are all kinds of ways to make money on a farm. the problem most have is that they are stupid about what they do, get caught up in trying to get rich and have to much debt to start with, or spend way more than they can recover before they give up.


You are very vigorous and seem to be much better tied into people than I am. The most does I kept were about 16 and it was hell on wheels to keep up with them. I do have to take slight exception with the 10 kits per doe logic since does only have 8 teats. I'm not sure how the doe feeds 10 kits on 8 teats. It sounds like you have a very efficient operation with lots of great outputs and buyers. The fact that you are getting $7 per pound for rabbit meat is very impressive. The fact that you get 10 kits per doe at every breeding is unbelievable, if somehow these does actually raise 10 kits to weaning time is incredible... literally. I can't argue with your post, and wouldn't want to. You 24 does x 10 kits per doe x 8 litter per year x 5 lbs per carcass x $7 per lb... I will do the math. $67,200 per year for a 23 doe rabbitry. You are without question, the rabbit keeper of the Century. Truly unbelievable.. and I mean that literally. But I can't argue with your results.


----------



## tonybluegoat

K7JLJ said:


> I have / do:
> 
> raise chickens
> take care of sheep (not for slaughter)
> harvest rain water for ag and drinking
> practice patrolling surrounding 200 acres of forest to know my AO pre-SHTF
> established early warning systems via trip wires and shotshell alarms
> work HF comms from 50 miles away at work via NVIS
> make sourdough from scratch with a hand grinder
> cook in the sun oven on occasion as well as dry vegetables from the garden
> competed for 10 years in IDPA/IPSC/3Gun as well as shot long range and competed in one Sniper Match
> practiced clearing my house / property with white light and NV
> etc.
> 
> The last few years have been learning HAM radio for post SHTF use.
> 
> My plan is to store food for a year for a MAG to be formed from neighbors, homesteading is not a real option IMO also, especially considering the magnet that you will become and amount of bodies needed to defend an obvious homestead.


James Linch, Jr, right? KF5UGL here. Nice to meet you.


----------



## tonybluegoat

mobius999 said:


> I'd like to chime in as a new member that came here more for the information than for the discussion (ie I lurk, I don't post). The general purpose of a forum is to POST stuff, and discuss it. Tony has it dead on that there are a few grumpy people on here that jump on every new person who posts an idea or opinion.
> 
> This is one of the slowest forums I've ever seen as far as new posts, new content, new ideas. Wonder why?
> 
> If you haven't been around forever a few grumpy aholes show up and bitch you out.
> 
> A moderator tells you to sift through thousand of dead threads instead of having a NEW discussion.
> 
> Really?
> 
> This thread is the best thing I've read on this website in some time. Thank you Tony for not just disappearing like most do when the old angry trolls try and shut you up and make you just read their musty old dead threads.


:vs_box: :vs_love:


----------



## tonybluegoat

Slippy said:


> You should name those old angry trolls. Don't be a coward who says we have a problem then not offer a solution.


Hawgrinder, Supported by Sasquatch. I want to say Jammer Six... but I'm not sure why. Sasquatch is starting to use a little more cooperative language. His first post to me essential said... "if you don't like it here then make your own forum." I think he's coming around. Hawgrinder is obviously a lost cause.


----------



## tonybluegoat

hawgrider said:


> Im thinking the bloated goat brought a peanut gallery with him.
> 
> Thin skinned whiny cry baby people won't last 2 days let alone 2 weeks in a real event that requires survival and prepper skills. They need to put some preparation H on the butt hurt.
> 
> Toughen up newbies and take your dose of reality. You wont find any rainbows and unicorns here or in real life.


Who shook this old hen's cage? Go back to sleep. You have nothing of value to add to this thread. Go start a thread of your own how old people don't bitch enough.


----------



## tonybluegoat

MisterMills357 said:


> I survived a man who was high on coke; and he popped me in the head, and arm, with a tube leg from an old steel folding table. It went downhill from there, and I used a Buck knife to end it. I have bona fides, some people have those, so don't be tooo... quick in making assessments.
> 
> I understand that your comment was not directed at me, and I am not chastising you.
> 
> It is merely a note from me to you, and anyone who reads this. I have a knife on me at all times, and I carry a steel pole as a walking stick. And yes, I will kill anyone that tries to kill me. And I realize that society has become beastly, there are beasts amongst us now; and for that, I blame secular humanism and atheism; and all of those things that hate Christ.
> 
> And those are some things that I actually do, on an everyday basis, I am always ready for a fight to the death. I will kill anyone who shows up with a gun, and opens up, I will kill him.
> 
> Or he will kill me, and that is fine, but I won't be cowed by anyone or anything; because I am as brave as Hell in ways, and I don't care if I die trying to kill an attacker. There are worse ways to go.
> 
> PS: that avatar under my username, that Airborne tab was earned by me, at the age of 37. There are people here who are not keyboard commandos. OK I am done. God Bless.


This is why I don't argue with people in the Lowes parking lot anymore. More power to you. Airborne all the way!


----------



## tonybluegoat

Sasquatch said:


> Hi @mobius999 thanks for being here and for posting! Now allow me to retort. I went back and read the OP and I suggest you do the same if you don't fully remember it. Tony came here and made a claim in his post. Another member called him on that claim. That's when Tony replied with an insulting name (that in itself is enough for an infraction). If a person can't back up their claim or do it without name calling I suggest that person not make the post.
> 
> You say you came here for the information more than the discussion. Let me ask you, what did you learn from the OP? I learned Tony tried to do something and failed. Okay, that's fine. I didn't learn how to can, raise livestock, garden, fish, shoot, give first aid, bail hay, drive a tractor, dig a well, raise a barn. I didn't learn any of that stuff from the OP because it wasn't there. What I did learn is the only thing to be learned, Tony had tried it. So I'm not really sure what information you were looking for in this thread. I read through the thread again and people, for lack of a better term, bragged about things they have done. Did I learn anything from that? No, except that those people did some stuff. Knowing people did some stuff doesn't help anyone prepping.
> 
> What I'm pointing out here is this post had no useful information. No "how to" instructions. Just pictures and words of what people did. Not saying people can't post a thread like this. Just saying you're not going to get much useful information from it. Now, as to those "dead threads" you spoke of, I know for a fact there are plenty of them that DO have "how to" instructions on many things. And many of those threads were started by the few grumpy aholes you mentioned.
> 
> You, Tony or anyone else is welcome to be here and ask questions. But what we long timers see when a new person shows up and doesn't bother searching through the archives of useful information is a person who wants someone else to do all the work for them. And sometimes when you ask a question that has been asked a hundred times before one of the old grumps will do the work of finding the old thread and linking it in his reply. But most of the time we don't like doing the work for other people.
> 
> Finally I'll say this. When anyone enters a new place its a good idea to show a little respect and humility to the people that already inhabit that place. Would you walk into a new job the first day being the loud guy making demands? Would you meet a significant others parents in their home for the first time and try to rule the roost? No, the right way to do things is like I mentioned...a little respect and humility.
> 
> Mobius I hope you and anyone else reading this reply sticks around and gets to know the angry old trolls and the knowledge they have already shared here. If not then I wish you the best of luck in whatever it is you do.


See... I hadn't even read this before I outed him as one of the grumpy old guys. "Hey grumpy old guy... do you and Hawgrinder drink together?" The fact that you think others should put up with obvious and blatant abuse long enough to "get to know" assholes like Hawgrinder sort of backs up my point. I assume this is your forum... it sort of feels like you started it, but I don't know. I would respectfully request that you cut bait on Hawgrinder and get the forum back to talking about preps instead of how much respect is given to people who obviously troll new members because they are angry old men.
(but I'm just an arrogant newbie)


----------



## tonybluegoat

SGT E said:


> I've ran a lawnmower engine from alcohol and a generator that's got a briggs on it but never a two stroke engine like a chain saw as of yet (See too many failures on Google LOL!)Back when Ethanol in gas 10% first came out it killed multiple weed eaters and leaf blowers and gaumed up a lot of older lawnmowers / Snowblowers. Today most 4 stroke engines have been modified factory wise to last on the ethanol as they even recommend "REGULAR" gas in the manuals.
> 
> The biggest problem I've encountered is heat!..Alcohol makes double the heat in a 4 stroke engine. Oil problems are pretty nil. Oil and alcohol don't mix well so lubrication problems of cylinders and valves are pretty much the same as gasoline. One other thing in an old gasoline engine...alcohol seems to be a heck of a cleaner and can remove deposits making it squeaky clean only to have the deposits wind up somewhere else. Lots of info on Google about the subject and even guys running mowers on rubbing alcohol (70%) keep in mind your pouring 30% water into your engine with this mix and it produces less power than the purest alcohol. While I know it would produce less heat rust would probably destroy a lot of stuff as well. I won't tell anyone it's fine to do but I will tell you its worthwhile experimenting with. I'm looking at water cooled engines at the moment and may purchase one soon to play around with. Running a generator in the cold winter would be no problem at all. You and your genny could sit and have a sip together!


This is truly fantastic information. Thank you .


----------



## tonybluegoat

tirednurse said:


> @inceptor, this is how I feel also. I don't mind guiding people through learning a new task, but I don't feel I should devote all my time to doing so. I am not getting paid for my time and I don't have enough of it to give out for free.
> 
> I learned what I know by research and lots of experience. Nobody handed it to me. I don't even think you really learn anything unless you are the one researching and then doing yourself. Just like when teaching children, we show them the task and explain as we go. Then we have them do it themselves and guide them as they make their mistakes until they know how to do it correctly. Learning a new task will not happen just by hearing how it is done. We need to be doing it to learn it.
> 
> I have taught many people how to do things like grow a garden, raise different animals with all included from birth to death. food storage methods, cooking, and cleaning. I have taught people how to knit, crochet, sew and mend. I have taught people to build simple buildings, repair them, wire electric and plumbing installation and repair of all kinds. I have even taught my children simple repairs and maintenance of their vehicles although I hate anything having to do with motors. Basically anything having to do with owning a farm. On the job, I teach others how to heal, comfort, protect life and guide patients and their loved ones through the process of death. I can honestly say I teach some one something daily. Today with my grandsons simple cooking at breakfast and then some dry food storage. They are 8 and 6 and follow me everywhere absorbing like sponges.
> 
> All that teaching doesn't matter though if the recipient doesn't have it in their heart to learn and retain it. Prove to me that you are willing and ready to learn what I have to teach and I will pour out every ounce of knowledge I have to give. I don't feel it is necessary to post teaching videos or tutorials here either, there are enough of those on every subject you could think of. That is called research.


I agree with what you're saying but have found that much of the "standard" information - particularly in books on homesteading is retread information. I prefer to hear it from people who are actually doing it... which you obviously are... we may disagree on details... and in those disagreements the one with the most actual experience is probably always right. I defer to you even on things I don't believe (regarding rabbits in particular)... and would love to hear more... Starting a thread on it would be great if you aren't too tired.


----------



## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> I agree with what you're saying but have found that much of the "standard" information - particularly in books on homesteading is retread information. I prefer to hear it from people who are actually doing it... which you obviously are... we may disagree on details... and in those disagreements the one with the most actual experience is probably always right. I defer to you even on things I don't believe (regarding rabbits in particular)... and would love to hear more... Starting a thread on it would be great if you aren't too tired.


That this incredible woman even has time to visit blows my mind. She's never going to die because she doesn't have time for things such as death.


----------



## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> I agree with what you're saying but have found that much of the "standard" information - particularly in books on homesteading is retread information. I prefer to hear it from people who are actually doing it... which you obviously are... we may disagree on details... and in those disagreements the one with the most actual experience is probably always right. I defer to you even on things I don't believe (regarding rabbits in particular)... and would love to hear more... Starting a thread on it would be great if you aren't too tired.


That this incredible woman even has time to visit blows my mind. She's never going to die because she doesn't have time for things such as death.


----------



## tonybluegoat

K7JLJ said:


> Summary of 1st three posts....
> 
> Post #1
> 
> Post #2
> 
> Post #3
> 
> Post #4
> 
> And then the PILE ON starts. Ok, the guy came off wrong, but the MATURE senior forum members got butthurt and kept it going instead of addressing the real issue they had with him (his attitude) and you end up with 12 pages of BS.
> 
> Each time someone tried to turn it back to the topic, more BS was added instead of ignoring it so it gets derailed over and over. If it's an issue with his attitude, put him in timeout as a mod, talk to him in PM, close the thread with "bad behavior won't be tolerated" and move on. Instead I see a bunch of people trying to defend their bad behavior like they should be allowed to get away with it because they are "founding fathers" or something.
> 
> Anyway, I'm out. Thanks for your consideration of what I'm trying to say, if you made one.


You are 100% right, of course... I tried to push the thread back... and have enjoyed every post that actually adds information, even if I disagree with it. I came here to talk about prepping, not to have pissing contests.... Yes, I come across as arrogant but that's only because I share actual information in detail so that others can comment on it, add to it, or give alternate ideas on the content. You spotted what happens on these threads when the old hens think someone is scratching their dirt.

Why aren't more "new members" posting? Because there is a gate keeper called Hawgrinder with his overlord called Sasquatch. Others join in. It's a shame... because this site actually could have interesting conversations about interesting subjects. So much of it has turned into a chat room on non-prepper subjects... it's sad. Hang in there. I know I'll try.


----------



## tonybluegoat

I think I got all caught up.

I learned a lot both about prepping and about which people are really adding to the conversation and which are just sniping. TiredNurse is definitely the the Queen Bee! Thank you for posting... I still need photographic proof of your 10 nippled rabblts...  But I understand if you don't have time to follow up.









This week I took my pussy car Prius to Oklahoma City (5.5 hours away) and picked up a 3rd XJ650 (to add to the 2 I already have) for a parts bike... $400... couldn't pass up the deal plus it gave me an excuse to pass people on I-35 going 80 MPH in my pussy car pulling a trailer. Always good fun.

I'll be prepping more dry goods this week. My son and daughter in law are moving out onto the land... That'll add to the clan. It now includes me and my wife, plus my ex-biker brother and his wife in their cabin, and soon to be my son and his wife and 3 year old. They will build something on the North 5 acres over the next year. I had an article published this month on "Clan" living (not Klan... "Clan") and how shared resources are a valuable aspect of homesteading (At homestead.org). Trained over $2000 worth of dogs this week... pretty good haul since I live on less than $1,000 per month.

I will be moving my wood burning stove out into the "Ark" apartment. I added a room this month, so now it's a 2 room apartment (320 square feet total). Need to install the floors before I add the wood burning stove. I love heating with wood.

Great additions to this thread. I hadn't looked at it in a while.

To add information that might be useful I got this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018BD8F3G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Dektite silicone boot for sealing the stove pipe on corrugated metal roofing. The hard part with this is getting a good seal to keep water out. I haven't used it yet. Hopefully it will do the job. The metal ring around the boot can be bent to match the contours of a non-flat roof. Hopefully it will work for me. Anyone who has used it, I'm interested in your experience.


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## tonybluegoat

Adding to "what I have personally done" I would say - on canning that All American Canners are worth the money. I would also say that the bigger the better if you are canning in mass. I can 50 pints and 30 quarts at a time... It takes 10-12 hours and I have the biggest canner I can fit on my stove. Important tip: Be careful canning on Glass top stoves. The canner weighs 20+ lbs... Each quart weighs 2 lbs plus water etc. and a really large canner can get heavy enough to break a glass top stove. Also look at dimensions - particularly height - because my canner barely fits between the top of my stove and the exhaust hood.

I can chicken, a lot of chicken. I found it cheaper to buy it on sale than to grow it myself. I have gotten leg quarters as low as 29 cents per pound at Kroger. 100 lbs of leg quarters costs $29. Leg quarters will make 1/2 as much deboned meat. So 100 lbs of bone-in makes 50 lbs of boneless and skinless chicken meat. 1 quart hold about 1 lb of meat. That makes about 50 pints. I take the bones and skin and make stock (Onions and celery, Salt and Pepper). I don't add carrots because I feel the stock discolors after months in storage. It doesn't change the taste but I prefer not to use carrots. I strain it all but do not defat it. I think in both life and prepper situations fat is good.

If I can find thighs only on sale for 79 cents then that's the best... even 89 cents. Because less bone, more meat. 60 lbs of bone - in (or a little more) can render 50 lbs of boneless meat. Easier to deal with too. Deboning legs is a pain. Deboning thighs is a snap.

I do that at least twice a year, sometimes 3 times. So I've done it a bunch. Just follow any online directions for canning chicken. I don't boil my lids or sterilize my jars... 75 minutes in a pressure canner will kill anything. No need to precook the chicken. Be sure to put a teaspoon of salt in each jar and wipe the rim clean before adding the lid. Don't overtighten. 

The first time I canned I made the mistake of rapidly depressurizing the canner (by taking the rocker off where the steam vents), this causes an overpressure state INSIDE the jars. They will rapidly expel the fluid and in some cases the jars will burst (filling the canner with broken glass). So it's important to let the canner cool enough to release the pressure naturally. This takes a lot of time, which is why it takes 12 hours to can 80 jars of food. But it's very satisfying.


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## tirednurse

tonybluegoat said:


> You are very vigorous and seem to be much better tied into people than I am. The most does I kept were about 16 and it was hell on wheels to keep up with them. I do have to take slight exception with the 10 kits per doe logic since does only have 8 teats. I'm not sure how the doe feeds 10 kits on 8 teats. It sounds like you have a very efficient operation with lots of great outputs and buyers. The fact that you are getting $7 per pound for rabbit meat is very impressive. The fact that you get 10 kits per doe at every breeding is unbelievable, if somehow these does actually raise 10 kits to weaning time is incredible... literally. I can't argue with your post, and wouldn't want to. You 24 does x 10 kits per doe x 8 litter per year x 5 lbs per carcass x $7 per lb... I will do the math. $67,200 per year for a 23 doe rabbitry. You are without question, the rabbit keeper of the Century. Truly unbelievable.. and I mean that literally. But I can't argue with your results.


Well Mr Goat, I'm getting the impression you are saying I'm lying? you have a lot to learn. First of all reading comprehension.

first I gave you what my averages are. My rabbits have between 8 and 14 kits per litter. Average would be about 11 but I always round down. Number of teats has nothing to do with a doe's ability to raise kits. If you had issues it was your error. First mistake is poor breeding stock.

I butcher at about 5 pounds. not 5 pounds of meat. This is live weight. After butcher this is about 3 pounds. I'm pretty sure I specified this also. 
My price is lower than a person could buy rabbit meat from the store for and people appreciate getting clean meat not production meat. the cheapest you can find it here is $9 a pound and you can seldom find it. I sell 20 -30 rabbits a week and sell some live as well. However my family eats first. It takes about 3 rabbits to feed all of us one meal and I can a good supply also for convenience.

My aunt and her children are the ones that taught me. She used to have hundreds of does breeding and sold commercially. You just need to make things as automatic and routine as possible. It takes me about 20 minutes a day to feed and make sure auto water is flowing. about 2 hours to butcher every week and then a couple days later a couple more to package. It is not hard work, just more than most want to do.

Pictures of some of my grow outs, ready for butcher.


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## inceptor

tirednurse said:


> Well Mr Goat, I'm getting the impression you are saying I'm lying? you have a lot to learn. First of all reading comprehension.
> 
> first I gave you what my averages are. My rabbits have between 8 and 14 kits per litter. Average would be about 11 but I always round down. Number of teats has nothing to do with a doe's ability to raise kits. If you had issues it was your error. First mistake is poor breeding stock.
> 
> I butcher at about 5 pounds. not 5 pounds of meat. This is live weight. After butcher this is about 3 pounds. I'm pretty sure I specified this also.
> My price is lower than a person could buy rabbit meat from the store for and people appreciate getting clean meat not production meat. the cheapest you can find it here is $9 a pound and you can seldom find it. I sell 20 -30 rabbits a week and sell some live as well. However my family eats first. It takes about 3 rabbits to feed all of us one meal and I can a good supply also for convenience.
> 
> My aunt and her children are the ones that taught me. She used to have hundreds of does breeding and sold commercially. You just need to make things as automatic and routine as possible. It takes me about 20 minutes a day to feed and make sure auto water is flowing. about 2 hours to butcher every week and then a couple days later a couple more to package. It is not hard work, just more than most want to do.


:vs_clap: Bravo! :vs_clap:


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## hawgrider

Well well the blow goat was something special wasn't he. Seems I have a knack for being able to smell a pile of poop. Give a poop pile enough rope and they will hang themselves. 

Nice work who ever tightened the noose!


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## WhatTheHeck

tonybluegoat said:


> How many rabbits do you keep? Based on what I'm hearing I might get back into meat rabbits? I thought about growing grain, but it seems like the harvesting by hand is a bit more than I am interested in actually doing. Prepping flour in mylar and rotating it seems to work for me. But I understand why you do it. The only way to know how to do something is to do it. I'm interested in hearing more about free ranging your rabbits. To be honest my neighbor told me not to because of the worms. I never tried it. How do you keep them contained? Do you just keep them in a group? What about kitting?


My apologies, I was not clear.

I built small A-frames and then attached 1x2 weld wire to create a small run for them. Then I move them three or four times a day.

I cannot find the plans I used to build mine, but here is an example: All Wire Rabbit ?Tractor? for Safely Pastured Rabbits | Pocket Pause
But mine have a 1/2 plywood enclosure at one end for shelter from the rain.

In the winter, they go into the barn in a standard hutch.

I have a separate one with wire mesh on the floor of the plywood enclosed area so the kits cannot slip through. This "Kindling" hutch is specifically for the doe. I put her in there with straw and hay a few days before she kindles.

Currently we are down to three males and three females. As we are rolling into fall and winter, we stop breeding them. Of the males I will cull one more and keep the other two for breeding stock.

I have put them out in the field before, but have to put up temporary movable fencing with a 1J energizer to keep the coy out.


----------



## WhatTheHeck

Oh, concerning grains, according to Gene Logsdon book, Small-Scale Grain Raising, it take about 1/4 of a acre for a family of four for a year of wheat.

Again, I think location, climate, and the type of grain that grows best in a give region my dictate that number.


----------



## WhatTheHeck

Oh, concerning grains, according to Gene Logsdon book, Small-Scale Grain Raising, it take about 1/4 of a acre for a family of four for a year of wheat.

Again, I think location, climate, and the type of grain that grows best in a give region my dictate that number.


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## Elvis

tonybluegoat said:


> Did you install your own mini-split. We are using window units because the central AC was so old that it was incredibly inefficient. But I've been looking at mini-splits for years. My issue is that I would need a professional installer with vacuum pumps and such. What are your thoughts concerning those verses window units? What brand do you have/


We went with a 1 1/2 ton (18,000 btu) 21 seer LG model with 2 heads. Wanted the 2 ton version but also wanted to make sure the solar system batteries could handle it for a few hours each night when it's still 87 degrees at 10pm. Yes, I installed it in one long day but brought out a AC guy ($150) to suck the lines and commission the unit to keep the warranty valid. He said since I'd kept the caps on the lines as I ran them he really didn't think they needed the vacuum applied but we did it anyway.

Been running about 3 years now with no problems. As a test I used it all night to heat the house at different outdoor temperatures. It kept the house toasty when it was 35 degrees outside, did ok when it went down to 20 degrees outside, but was a little cool one night when it went down to 8 degrees outside. A larger unit probably would have been fine at 8 degrees.


----------



## The Tourist

Technically, nothing. Officially I retired two years ago. I just do knives for friends, long term clients and maybe a fellow forum member that has damaged or cannot successfully sharpen a knife he needs for hunting or work.

Truth is, I was a go-getter in my youth, now I just want 2:00PM naps. Funny how the human mind works. I'm now at the plateau of my career, and I don't want to do it anymore.


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## MisterMills357

tonybluegoat said:


> This is why I don't argue with people in the Lowes parking lot anymore. More power to you. Airborne all the way!


It was not an argument, the fool went on an unprovoked attack, and attempted to kill me. If it happened again, this very day, in Saint Pete, with 1 or more attackers, I would go down swinging.
I am as fearful as anyone else of the consequences and the danger of dying; but Jesus Christ in Heaven, it is not my function to be the one that dies, so that the fool may live.
Let the fool die.


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## The Tourist

MisterMills357 said:


> If it happened again, this very day, in Saint Pete, with 1 or more attackers, I would go down swinging.


You're a member, if I can help, I will. Do you need a knife?


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## MisterMills357

The Tourist said:


> You're a member, if I can help, I will. Do you need a knife?


.

That is what I like about the members here, an offer to help and sympathy too. No sir, I do not need a knife, I used to carry Buck or Gerber, etc. I lose them without fail, so I went the cheap route.

I have lost 2 Camillus K-Bars, over the years... 2!.... *0*%$$^&*^$# And, they were "jumped in", I had them with me on a Huey jump. They were irreplaceable, since I picked them up at Camp Dawson WV. I am hopeless in ways, and I will just lose a knife, sooner or later.

And, it gets worse, I let my Colt Mark 4 rust a little bit! I am Mister Potato Head in ways. I just recently picked up a Tramontina 12" machete, just in case I might need it, for inside the house. Now that is gory, but I will use it that way if needed. [If I ever get another decent knife, it might be a CRKT M16.]


----------



## The Tourist

MisterMills357 said:


> .[If I ever get another decent knife, it might be a CRKT M16.]


If your read the KimberTalk forum you'll find I bought a large number of Kershaw Barges, polished them, and sent them out to members at a break-even price. I paid 15.75 each, and I charged a bit to make sure they were sharp and some minor shipping. I don't think you can break them, I'm doing one now for a SEAL.

Click on it to make the picture bigger.


----------



## inceptor

The Tourist said:


> If your read the KimberTalk forum you'll find I bought a large number of Kershaw Barges, polished them, and sent them out to members at a break-even price. I paid 15.75 each, and I charged a bit to make sure they were sharp and some minor shipping. I don't think you can break them, I'm doing one now for a SEAL.
> 
> Click on it to make the picture bigger.
> 
> View attachment 83097


I have the CRKT M16 but would be interested in having a Kershaw Barge also.


----------



## The Tourist

I'll have to do a count. I know I will have some left over, but not enough to do a whole other forum!

I have to do two tomorrow, and then I'll make sure I'm covered. I will follow up with the good/bad news.

Of course, if Blue Ridge has more, I'll try to get them, but they are popular. Having said that, I think all preppers should have one. If you get the chance, look at the huge fasteners holding the knife together. It even has a prying tool on the butt end. If I didn't know better I'd guess a prepper designed it.


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## 23897

tonybluegoat said:


> I do have to take slight exception with the 10 kits per doe logic since does only have 8 teats. I'm not sure how the doe feeds 10 kits on 8 teats.


Because humans have two teats they'll not have triplets or quadruplets or quintuplets or sextuplets??
I do have to take exception to your logic.

Fangfarrier

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elvis

Make a paycheck, sometimes large like today, sometimes tiny which is often. Use a tiny amount to learn new skills doing practice.


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## inceptor

Elvis said:


> Make a paycheck, sometimes large like today, sometimes tiny which is often. *Use a tiny amount to learn new skills doing practice*.


Working on that right now. :vs_cool:


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## mobius999

hawgrider said:


> Im thinking the bloated goat brought a peanut gallery with him.
> 
> Thin skinned whiny cry baby people won't last 2 days let alone 2 weeks in a real event that requires survival and prepper skills. They need to put some preparation H on the butt hurt.
> 
> Toughen up newbies and take your dose of reality. You wont find any rainbows and unicorns here or in real life.


Thanks for proving the point you blowhard douche. It's an internet forum, not boot camp. Toughen up? I've heard worse from ten year olds playing video games Mr. Internet Tough Guy. You seem seriously detached from reality. Fossil. Go ahead and ban me Sasquatch, it's obvious your nose is buried up this troll's ass. There's better places to be than here.


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## Sasquatch

mobius999 said:


> Thanks for proving the point you blowhard douche. It's an internet forum, not boot camp. Toughen up? I've heard worse from ten year olds playing video games Mr. Internet Tough Guy. You seem seriously detached from reality. Fossil. Go ahead and ban me Sasquatch, it's obvious your nose is buried up this troll's ass. There's better places to be than here.


Dont let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## NotTooProudToHide

tirednurse said:


> Well Mr Goat, I'm getting the impression you are saying I'm lying? you have a lot to learn. First of all reading comprehension.
> 
> first I gave you what my averages are. My rabbits have between 8 and 14 kits per litter. Average would be about 11 but I always round down. Number of teats has nothing to do with a doe's ability to raise kits. If you had issues it was your error. First mistake is poor breeding stock.
> 
> I butcher at about 5 pounds. not 5 pounds of meat. This is live weight. After butcher this is about 3 pounds. I'm pretty sure I specified this also.
> My price is lower than a person could buy rabbit meat from the store for and people appreciate getting clean meat not production meat. the cheapest you can find it here is $9 a pound and you can seldom find it. I sell 20 -30 rabbits a week and sell some live as well. However my family eats first. It takes about 3 rabbits to feed all of us one meal and I can a good supply also for convenience.
> 
> My aunt and her children are the ones that taught me. She used to have hundreds of does breeding and sold commercially. You just need to make things as automatic and routine as possible. It takes me about 20 minutes a day to feed and make sure auto water is flowing. about 2 hours to butcher every week and then a couple days later a couple more to package. It is not hard work, just more than most want to do.
> 
> Pictures of some of my grow outs, ready for butcher.


That's interesting. When I was a child, around when I was between 9 and 12, my dad had us take care of rabbits kind of as a project. I remember breeding them and I remember litter sizes of say 6 to 8 but I don't remember having anything near 14 but then again I was a kid and could barely count beyond my fingers.

Rabbits are a very efficient and cost effective way to put meat on the table.


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## MisterMills357

hawgrider said:


> Practice what you preach Jammies.


YEAH! What he said!



bigwheel said:


> Good point hawgrider..how could be be blabbing at us if he wasn't on his keyboard too much?


His fingers are all cramped up, otherwise you would get an eyeful. You just wait though!



Jammer Six said:


> Well, there's the internet repeater thingie on the boat...


My Sherlock Holmes pipe is busted; what is that, what repeater are you talking about? Are you talking about an antennae, or a transceiver?



Prepared One said:


> Honestly! I have no freakin idea what the hell he is talking bout old friend. :vs_lol:


See, I have company, he does not know either. Please igplain.



K7JLJ said:


> At the top of this thread I see the above. Hmmmm... Forums are suppose to be interactive, not a book repository.
> Repository, uh oh, big words give me acid reflux...now you've done it!
> 
> How about either answering the question the post asks or ignoring it? Instead people want to crap on it and the OP, why is that?


They have a lifetime stock of cheap toilet paper? They gotta doo sumthin' with it!

This place has sparked up! It is about time. To everyone: please forgive any liberties that I have taken with your entries; it is all in good fun.


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## The Tourist

Ya' know, if you guys keep fighting I am going to start selling knives here. There are loud mouths and guys who know how to throw a punch. Spammer Sux couldn't hit himself in the @$$ with both hands and a canoe paddle.


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## tirednurse

NotTooProudToHide said:


> That's interesting. When I was a child, around when I was between 9 and 12, my dad had us take care of rabbits kind of as a project. I remember breeding them and I remember litter sizes of say 6 to 8 but I don't remember having anything near 14 but then again I was a kid and could barely count beyond my fingers.
> 
> Rabbits are a very efficient and cost effective way to put meat on the table.


I would guess that over the years as meat rabbits have developed things have changed for the good. I know in my personal rabbitry if a doe is not consistently producing large healthy litters and raising them successfully, she is culled from my breeding stock. I have been working with my current lines for about 30 years. I experimented with different breeds but always did the best with my New Zealands. Years ago I mixed my stock with some Florida white and Flemish giants and seemed to get a hearty slightly larger rabbit. Most of my does do 10 every litter and a few that do more, but unless it is an exceptional rabbit I don't feel 8 per litter is enough and they go. The only exception to this are my reds just because its my favorite color. Very pretty.

You are correct. Rabbits are a very efficient way to produce meat. Far easier and cheaper than beef, chicken, pork or turkey also.


----------



## inceptor

MisterMills357 said:


> YEAH! What he said!
> 
> His fingers are all cramped up, otherwise you would get an eyeful. You just wait though!
> 
> My Sherlock Holmes pipe is busted; what is that, what repeater are you talking about? Are you talking about an antennae, or a transceiver?
> 
> See, I have company, he does not know either. Please igplain.


Y'all really don't know what a repeater is?

Besides those used for 2m/440 they are a common thing for the internet. Lot's of folks use them in the home to fix dead spots. I haven't had a need to look into it but I see no reason that one couldn't be used for longer range internet.


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## MisterMills357

inceptor said:


> Y'all really don't know what a repeater is?
> 
> Besides those used for 2m/440 they are a common thing for the internet. Lot's of folks use them in the home to fix dead spots. I haven't had a need to look into it but I see no reason that one couldn't be used for longer range internet.


OH! That repeater!


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## 23897

inceptor said:


> Y'all really don't know what a repeater is?
> 
> Besides those used for 2m/440 they are a common thing for the internet. Lot's of folks use them in the home to fix dead spots. I haven't had a need to look into it but I see no reason that one couldn't be used for longer range internet.


Might the reason be the wavelength limiting the range? At 2.4ghz you'd have about 304.8m range in perfect conditions.

Fangfarrier

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Salt-N-Pepper

Where there are a ton of "All Hat, No Cattle" "preppers" out there, please don't lump all of us into that category.

I don't plug my blog much here because it's just not what I like to do, but if you want to see what it is we do, daily, we talk about it at Beans, Bullets, Bandages & You (CLICK ME).

The articles are about what we do, and what we have done, as well as what we have learned through education, experimentation and a whole lot of trial-and-error.

You've been homesteading for 7 years? We've been homesteading in one form or another for 32 years, and we are in the process of building a full-blown off-grid BOL homestead out in the hinterlands while maintaining and growing our in-town homestead. At various times we have raised chickens, rabbits & geese, as well as fish (in a pond, not a tank). I've milked goats, made cheese, you name it... killed and butchered our own animals, hunted, taken the game, field stripped, butchered & prepared the meat, froze it, jerked it, again you name it, we've done it.

I apprenticed with a gunsmith for a couple of years, yadda yadda yadda I could go on and on.

I've also got the pictures (on my blog) to prove I'm not full of bull.


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## The Tourist

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I've also got the pictures (on my blog) to prove I'm not full of bull.


Don't take it personal. The guys who blast you the worst will never come out from behind their mommie's computer screen.

You (and people with your experience) is the reason I came here. I don't even understand with what I don't understand. Back in the 1970s I figured preppers were like civilian mercenaries. So I hauled two tons of wheels weights out of a tire changing shop (it was "scrap" then), I bought lynotype, solder and a number of bullet molds. I learned how to polish knives--that was dumb luck. I hated my adult job and became a polisher.

But I do not know how to grow vegetables, slaughter large animals, build primitive shelters when black clouds swirl, and how to filter/sterilize large amounts of water.

You know how to do that. The answer to your issue is to teach guys like me. As for the loudmouths, they'll be lucky if they can correct your spelling.
_
I want to hear from you on survivalist items_. Tell that to the loudmouth that's on ya.'


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## WhatTheHeck

I know more than some, less than others.

I try to come at it with the idea of, "What if the Agway, TSC, or other big box store is no longer available? What then?"

Yes, I have done things the hard way, like scything 90 days worth of hay to feed six goats in the winter. 
But I now know it can be done. I can do it. And do it the right way.

In the Marines, we always did it the hard way first, then the easy way.


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## Slippy

The Tourist said:


> ....
> 
> But I do not know how to grow vegetables, slaughter large animals....and how to filter/sterilize large amounts of water.


 @The Tourist

Growing vegetables is something that we love to do and every year it gets easier and more productive.

Raised Beds are in my opinion the easiest and best way to get started. Raised Beds are easier on your back, easier to maintain and much easier to create a productive soil environment.

One method is to take some Stock Tanks, shoot holes (or drill holes...but shooting holes is funner!) in the bottom. Add some rocks or stones, then some sand then your soil. The height of the Stock Tanks are easy on the back and keep some of the critters out.

I suggest you start with plants your first year instead of seeds. Fertilizer is important and so is sun and water. If you cut enough drain holes in your tank it is hard to over water. Don't go crazy with water, some veggies like lots of water and some like less more frequently.

Tomatoes, Peppers and Cucumbers are in my opinion pretty easy. Maybe start there. Fertilizers are important but you'll learn after a few seasons which are best.

Check out some of the threads on raised bed gardening. Next year is just around the corner so get to it!

Good luck


----------



## The Tourist

@*Slippy*

Thanks for the info. We have a large deck off our kitchen window, and my wife was going to try growing vegetables in barrels or boxes. She tried some small, yellow tomatoes, and grew numerous ones, only to find out if I eat them for a day or two I get a red mouth.

Right now she's taking landscaping classes, with a large section for vegetables. I'm still working on the best system we can augment to our water system. As you know, the heavy rains in Madison have backed up lake water into the sewer system. I live in the 'burbs, and truthfully, I do not know where our water comes from. I'm considering one of those "osmosis systems" that cleans every drop that comes into the house.


----------



## youngridge

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Where there are a ton of "All Hat, No Cattle" "preppers" out there, please don't lump all of us into that category.
> 
> I don't plug my blog much here because it's just not what I like to do, but if you want to see what it is we do, daily, we talk about it at Beans, Bullets, Bandages & You (CLICK ME).
> 
> The articles are about what we do, and what we have done, as well as what we have learned through education, experimentation and a whole lot of trial-and-error.
> 
> You've been homesteading for 7 years? We've been homesteading in one form or another for 32 years, and we are in the process of building a full-blown off-grid BOL homestead out in the hinterlands while maintaining and growing our in-town homestead. At various times we have raised chickens, rabbits & geese, as well as fish (in a pond, not a tank). I've milked goats, made cheese, you name it... killed and butchered our own animals, hunted, taken the game, field stripped, butchered & prepared the meat, froze it, jerked it, again you name it, we've done it.
> 
> I apprenticed with a gunsmith for a couple of years, yadda yadda yadda I could go on and on.
> 
> I've also got the pictures (on my blog) to prove I'm not full of bull.


Can't open the blog on my phone but I am quoting your post so I can find it later when I get on a laptop. Looking forward to it, thanks salt!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tirednurse

NotTooProudToHide said:


> That's interesting. When I was a child, around when I was between 9 and 12, my dad had us take care of rabbits kind of as a project. I remember breeding them and I remember litter sizes of say 6 to 8 but I don't remember having anything near 14 but then again I was a kid and could barely count beyond my fingers.
> 
> Rabbits are a very efficient and cost effective way to put meat on the table.


 @NotTooProudToHide I thought you might like to see this pic. Not your 6-8 count litter. This one is 21 kits. Three times the number you used to get from your rabbits.


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## tirednurse




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## Prepared One

I have had rabbit before but it was at a restaurant. I am thinking I am going to track some down and throw it on the pit. As I remember Rabbit is very tasty. had no idea it was that expensive.


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## bigwheel

Ddnt know it was that high either. Back in the good old days cleaned fryers were a buck each. It just dont seem right. Now I never ate a tame rabbit but have knocked out many cottontails..which are mighty yummy and as the lebian frog told her friend..we do taste like chicken dont we? Anyway...Jack Rabbitts are closer to roast beef They need a about an hour to tangle with a pressure cooker...or maybe seethed for a day or so. The ones who get shot in the head are bettre the ones laying dead in the road.


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## Annie

I once (accidentally) chopped off the head of a little bunny with one of the old school hand push lawn mowers. It was dusk and I didn't see the creature. Pcheewww that little head went sailing up into the air several feet, body wriggling around right there in on the lawn.


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## Annie

tirednurse said:


> View attachment 93121
> 
> View attachment 93123


Wegmans is one of those highbrow stores. It's a 'money is no object' type of place, like Whole Foods or Kings, that sort of place.


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## tirednurse

Prepared One said:


> I have had rabbit before but it was at a restaurant. I am thinking I am going to track some down and throw it on the pit. As I remember Rabbit is very tasty. had no idea it was that expensive.


funny thing is, it is not that expensive to grow yourself. In fact it is by far the cheapest and easiest meat to grow. This is why I can sell for $8 a pound and have lots of buyers.

As for taste, it is very similar to chicken but I prefer rabbit. The meat is also much denser and fills you up faster than chicken. It is also a cleaner meat because rabbits are not nasty eating machines like chickens are. Chickens eat anything, and I mean anything.

Rabbit is best cooked low and slow. Cooking on a grill may make the meat tough. Some people use an instapot, but I don't have one so don't know anything about it. 
You can substitute rabbit for chicken in any chicken recipe.


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## Denton

tirednurse said:


> funny thing is, it is not that expensive to grow yourself. In fact it is by far the cheapest and easiest meat to grow. This is why I can sell for $8 a pound and have lots of buyers.
> 
> As for taste, it is very similar to chicken but I prefer rabbit. The meat is also much denser and fills you up faster than chicken. It is also a cleaner meat because rabbits are not nasty eating machines like chickens are. Chickens eat anything, and I mean anything.
> 
> Rabbit is best cooked low and slow. Cooking on a grill may make the meat tough. Some people use an instapot, but I don't have one so don't know anything about it.
> You can substitute rabbit for chicken in any chicken recipe.


Do they have more fat on them than their wild cousins?


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## Sasquatch

Annie said:


> I once (accidentally) chopped off the head of a little bunny with one of the old school hand push lawn mowers. It was dusk and I didn't see the creature. Pcheewww that little head went sailing up into the air several feet, body wriggling around right there in on the lawn.


*Psssst* Hey fella's. Think we may have a closet serial killer on our hands.


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## StratMaster

As Samwise once said " There's nothing like a brace O' Coneys with taters in a pot...


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## Prepared One

Annie said:


> I once (accidentally) chopped off the head of a little bunny with one of the old school hand push lawn mowers. It was dusk and I didn't see the creature. Pcheewww that little head went sailing up into the air several feet, body wriggling around right there in on the lawn.


Note to self: Stay away from Annie when she is mowing the yard. :tango_face_wink:


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## Elvis

tirednurse said:


> funny thing is, it is not that expensive to grow yourself. In fact it is by far the cheapest and easiest meat to grow. This is why I can sell for $8 a pound and have lots of buyers.
> 
> As for taste, it is very similar to chicken but I prefer rabbit. The meat is also much denser and fills you up faster than chicken. It is also a cleaner meat because rabbits are not nasty eating machines like chickens are. Chickens eat anything, and I mean anything.
> 
> Rabbit is best cooked low and slow. Cooking on a grill may make the meat tough. Some people use an instapot, but I don't have one so don't know anything about it.
> You can substitute rabbit for chicken in any chicken recipe.


Do you need any sort of inspection or permit to sell rabbit meat? Or are you just selling to friends and family? @tirednurse


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## CoffeePot

Elvis said:


> Do you need any sort of inspection or permit to sell rabbit meat? Or are you just selling to friends and family? @tirednurse


Tread carefully with raw meat. The FDA is not a big fan of people selling meat and dairy without their stamp of approval.


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## tirednurse

Denton said:


> Do they have more fat on them than their wild cousins?


only the older ones. Butchered at 12-16 weeks and they have very little fat


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## Denton

tirednurse said:


> only the older ones. Butchered at 12-16 weeks and they have very little fat


Fat is important.


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## tirednurse

Elvis said:


> Do you need any sort of inspection or permit to sell rabbit meat? Or are you just selling to friends and family? @tirednurse


Yes, legally to sell raw meat you should be licensed. However since I only sell raw meat for people using it to feed their "animals" I'm fine. I only sell to people who understand the rules of the game if you know what I mean. 
You can sell live animals all day long with no such issues. People can then butcher themselves or pay a fee to have it done also.


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## tirednurse

Denton said:


> Fat is important.


That is why God created pigs....


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## Denton

tirednurse said:


> That is why God created pigs....


We have a lot of wild pigs around here. Being wild, they off not enough fat for even to make bacon.


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## Prepared One

Did someone mention bacon???? :shock: I have some Jalapeno bacon that may have to go into the pan this week.


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## Blendingin

tirednurse said:


> @NotTooProudToHide I thought you might like to see this pic. Not your 6-8 count litter. This one is 21 kits. Three times the number you used to get from your rabbits.
> 
> View attachment 93115


Wow that is a lot of bunnies!

Sent from my STV100-2 using Tapatalk


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## StratMaster

tirednurse said:


> That is why God created pigs....


And my waistline...


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## AquaHull

tirednurse said:


> funny thing is, it is not that expensive to grow yourself. In fact it is by far the cheapest and easiest meat to grow. This is why I can sell for $8 a pound and have lots of buyers.
> 
> As for taste, it is very similar to chicken but I prefer rabbit. The meat is also much denser and fills you up faster than chicken. It is also a cleaner meat because rabbits are not nasty eating machines like chickens are. Chickens eat anything, and I mean anything.
> 
> Rabbit is best cooked low and slow. Cooking on a grill may make the meat tough. Some people use an instapot, but I don't have one so don't know anything about it.
> You can substitute rabbit for chicken in any chicken recipe.


I don't eat things that run around on pads any more, but Fluffy and Buffy always ran away in the 70's

maybe into here
https://honest-food.net/hasenpfeffer-recipe-dumplings/


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## StratMaster

AquaHull said:


> I don't eat things that run around on pads any more, but Fluffy and Buffy always ran away in the 70's
> 
> maybe into here
> https://honest-food.net/hasenpfeffer-recipe-dumplings/


Me either ... I wait until they stop running for awhile.


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## AquaHull




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## NotTooProudToHide

tirednurse said:


> @NotTooProudToHide I thought you might like to see this pic. Not your 6-8 count litter. This one is 21 kits. Three times the number you used to get from your rabbits.
> 
> View attachment 93115


That's a lot of fur!


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