# Medical



## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

So we all know the value of a good first aid kit. Hopefully you also know how to use it. Just putting it out there that since I'm a Paramedic and do this kind of stuff for a living, if anyone has any questions on medical related issues I'd be happy to try and help. Having the supplies is great, but the supplies are worthless without the knowledge of how and when to use them. For instance when I'm working I have some pretty powerful pain medications I can give to people. However due to my training and assessment not everyone who says their pain is a 10 out of 10 will get me to crack the med bag. So fire away and I'll try and help where I can.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

warrior4 said:


> So we all know the value of a good first aid kit. Hopefully you also know how to use it. Just putting it out there that since I'm a Paramedic and do this kind of stuff for a living, if anyone has any questions on medical related issues I'd be happy to try and help. Having the supplies is great, but the supplies are worthless without the knowledge of how and when to use them. For instance when I'm working I have some pretty powerful pain medications I can give to people. However due to my training and assessment not everyone who says their pain is a 10 out of 10 will get me to crack the med bag. So fire away and I'll try and help where I can.


People who've had kidney stones are living on a WHOLE OTHER SCALE from the rest of the world when it comes to "Pain level"! "Oh, an alligator bit my arm off? That's about a 6." :lol:

With a little checking, most towns, cities, colleges have Fist Aid / EMT training classes that are often FREE or very cheap.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Nice to have you on board, from a retired paramedic (hence the name)


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Welcome from the South-East. (SC)


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

warrior4 said:


> So we all know the value of a good first aid kit. Hopefully you also know how to use it. Just putting it out there that since I'm a Paramedic and do this kind of stuff for a living, if anyone has any questions on medical related issues I'd be happy to try and help. Having the supplies is great, but the supplies are worthless without the knowledge of how and when to use them. For instance when I'm working I have some pretty powerful pain medications I can give to people. However due to my training and assessment not everyone who says their pain is a 10 out of 10 will get me to crack the med bag. So fire away and I'll try and help where I can.


First Aid kits are one of my pet peaves. a store bought one is very inadequate most of the time. Doesn't have much more that a bandaid. I had to start putting together one on my own. I say started since, like to BOB it is ever changing as I add more that I think would be helpfull. Do you have a list of what you would suggest go in our kits?


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Here's the thing... first aid kits are good for first aid, but then what?

For example, let's say we are a month into a major SHTF scenario and someone gets shot through the chest. All I know to do is make sure they're breathing, stop the bleeding, maybe throw on an Asherman seal or 2, and treat for shock. Now what?

If I'm in the normal world, say at the range or something, that might be enough to hold them until real medical help gets there. But what if I know they aren't coming... ever?

First aid is great, but what about long term care? I don't have powerful pain killers or an endless supply of antibiotics. I don't have the skills or equipment to go in and sew them up or whatever. In short, you get hurt that bad, you're gonna die. Maybe not as fast as you would have, but all the first aid in the world isn't gonna make you better. Yes, some of us (like Fuzzee) would just slap fire to it and go on about their business, but what about the rest of us?

My point is that having first aid is great for some injuries, but more or less worthless for many of the types of wounds that would be likely in any Mad Max world, so what's the point in having stuff that will ultimately be ineffective?

And yeah, if I am all there is I'm gonna try to do what seems like the right thing. But if I'm your trauma surgeon, there's a real good chance you won't make it. Reality sucks sometimes, but there it is.


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

Silverbullet said:


> I've spent a lot of time working in pain management clinics and every patient that walks in the door is at a pain level 10! It's amazing that just a written prescription for opiates can relieve their pain so much that they are miraculously able to run to their car to get to the pharmacy!


Really? Right before I read your post, I was like, "Pshaw, who would ever admit to having a pain level of 10?" That, apparently, is a whole 'nother world I know nothing about. What happened to suck it up and keep going? I guess those pain pills must be pretty special.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> Here's the thing... first aid kits are good for first aid, but then what?
> 
> For example, let's say we are a month into a major SHTF scenario and someone gets shot through the chest. All I know to do is make sure they're breathing, stop the bleeding, maybe throw on an Asherman seal or 2, and treat for shock. Now what?
> 
> ...


We are collecting as much trauma response supplies as possible in case we find a Vet, PA, or Doc who has the training but may not have the kit. As for building a trauma kit, it's more for the here and now.

I'll always wonder if someone at a gun range with a trauma kit and some knowledge might have been able to save the Chief and/or his friend long enough for the pro's to get there.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

If someone is dealing with cancer, or any other internal injuries, what kind of painkillers do you stuck up on? 
Most powerful painkillers are prescribed (or illegal)...how do you get to build up a stockpile? 
Without dealing with any drug pushers?


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> Here's the thing... first aid kits are good for first aid, but then what?
> 
> For example, let's say we are a month into a major SHTF scenario and someone gets shot through the chest. All I know to do is make sure they're breathing, stop the bleeding, maybe throw on an Asherman seal or 2, and treat for shock. Now what?
> 
> ...


So I think youd be surprised what the body will and wont get over. Ive dealt with a lot of trauma Ive also been trained to deal with the long term effects. Case in point patient GSW to chest right upper quadrant bullet lodged in his scapula and the only thing he needed was the chest tube he got in the field and supportive care. I think every prepper serious about medicine needs to get the SOF medical handbook and PHTLS (pre hospital trauma life support) for military.


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## wesley762 (Oct 23, 2012)

Silverbullet said:


> I've known people that will set aside a few or more pills a month out of their prescription to stockpile. I've also seen people do it with their diabetes meds (Metformin) and their blood pressure meds as well. It's a sticky situation, and there are really no good answers.


That's great and all but what about us guys that are not on a regular perscription? Me personally I have been to a doctor about 3 times in the last 10 years. My Wife is on some meds for acid reflux but that is the only persciptions we have in the house. The only pain killers we would have is some tylenol and some 90 proof of pick you poison. We have a few months of Vitamins on hand but nothing with any kind of strength. We do have Antibodics on hand (The fish stuff) I would never think of trying to pick that stuff in the gray market either, as I am sure 99.9% of that stuff is fake or will do more harm than good. And I am not going to fake some pain just to try and score some pills.....

Kinda between a rock and a hard spot on this issue.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

For short-term disaster/events (#months up to a year), I make sure I've got enough Flu/Colds tabs, Cough syrup, throat lozenges, allergy pills, aspirin, extra strength Tylenol, Naproxen (which is a much cheaper version of Alleve, an all around pain killer), alcohol, peroxide, tums, multi-vitamins, vitamin C, and melatonin (we've been taking this for more than 15 years, it provides quality sleep even if I sleep only for 5 or 6 hours, helps with stress and strengthen immunity. It's not addictive). I'll have to get some antibiotic ointment (for scrapes and burns).

Those with allergies, don't forget your epiphen.

Come to think of it, even if we have no known allergies, it pays to have Epiphen anyway. You just never know.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> My point is that having first aid is great for some injuries, but more or less worthless for many of the types of wounds that would be likely in any Mad Max world, so what's the point in having stuff that will ultimately be ineffective?


In a complete shut down of services, there can and will be a lot of situations where people will die from causes that could have otherwise been remedied.

Without proper irrigation and dressing, you can also easily die from the infection caused by a small cut. I'd rather not, so I'll carry what I can.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

What's the first aid for bites from venomous bugs or animals?


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

charito said:


> What's the first aid for bites from venomous bugs or animals?


Benadryl or other anti histamines will work for those.. I keep benadryl with me in case our dogs get bit by a rattlesnake or somethin..


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Rigged for Quiet said:


> As for building a trauma kit, it's more for the here and now.


That's more or less the way I see it too. Our trauma kit rides around in the car so we have it at the range or if we happen upon an accident or something. I don't know a lot about medical stuff, but I do know that minutes count. If I am the only one there with any supplies at all, I gotta at least try to make a difference until someone more qualified gets on scene.

Our trauma kit now includes Asherman chest seals, Quikclot z-fold combat gauze, Israeli bandages, a nasopharyngeal airway tube, a CAT Tourniquet, a SAM splint, eye pads, and a variety of elastic bandages, rolls of gauze, tapes, pads, and other odds n ends. Like I said, I'm not a doctor, but have had a little training and am determined to do what I can if the situation arises.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> Our trauma kit now includes Asherman chest seals, Quikclot z-fold combat gauze, Israeli bandages, a nasopharyngeal airway tube, a CAT Tourniquet, a SAM splint, eye pads, and a variety of elastic bandages, rolls of gauze, tapes, pads, and other odds n ends. Like I said, I'm not a doctor, but have had a little training and am determined to do what I can if the situation arises.


I had to look a few of those first ones up, and they definitely look like good additions to the car kit. Thanks for sharing! BTW, earlier I wasn't saying that as if you were against kits, just a simplified reasoning as to why I carry one in both my car and my kit... it's extra weight, but who knows when that tiny little bit of extra weight might make all the difference.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

My trauma kit is loosely modeled after the US Army's Improved First Aid Kit (IFAK), with a few extras throw in for good measure. I didn't know what some of this stuff was for either, but figured if they think it's important, it probably is. A little research then showed me when to use (and when to not use) the items and at least gave me some idea of how they are employed.

I'm a little concerned about the Quikclot. I suspect it has a limited shelf life and being in my trunk can't help. If anyone knows how long this stuff is good for, I would appreciate the info.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

Ok sorry it's taken me a while to get back to this thread. I just turned off the TV after watching my Red Sox win the Series! Boston Strong!

When it comes to a medical kit things I would include would be stuff like band-aids (they work well for the small scrapes and the like), hand sanitizer, triple anti-biotic ointment, 4x4 gauze, 5x9 gauze pads, a few "Abdominal" size gauze pads for the really big stuff, a few triangle bandages (those things are like the duct tape of EMS, depending on how you fold them and your creativity there's almost no end to their usefulness), several ACE wraps, several rolls of roller gauze, a bottle or two of hydrogen peroxide, tweezers (splinters and ticks suck literally), a small penlight, a pair of trauma sheers (they'll cut through just about any piece of clothing you can think of), something to make a tourniquet out of, lots of latex free gloves in the size of people who are going to use your med kit, a CPR pocket mask for doing mouth to mask ventilations, some medical masks with eye shields, ice packs, warm packs, eye wash solution.

That is all really basic equipment that should take care of a lot of injury related medical issues. The comment about EMT classes being free or cheap, maybe in your area, but not around here. When I got my first EMT licence before I went onto Paramedic it was $1200 not including the fee I paid to actually test for and get my licence. My paramedic schooling cost around $8000. The Red Cross does offer First Aid classes that are significantly cheaper however and I would recommend those. Either the Red Cross or American Heart Association offer CPR or nowadays CCR (Continuous Compression Resuscitation) classes that include how to use an AED that I would also recommend. 

When it comes to medical emergencies it's best to remember the following. If they still have a pulse the order of importance is ABC. Airway, Breathing, Circulation. Open their airway, make sure they're breathing and if they're not breathe for them, then make sure their heart is still pumping and they're not losing a lot of blood.

If they don't have a pulse anymore it goes CAB. Circulation, Airway, Breathing. If their heart isn't pumping anymore just push hard and fast on their chest and what the American Heart Association is saying now is the for a layperson don't worry about breathing for them anymore. Just keep pushing hard and fast in the center of their chest.

Hope that helps for starters.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

If you are looking for training, http://www.me.ngb.army.mil/units/rti/resources/IS0871_Edition_C_ALMS.pdf is the course material for the Army's Cmbat Life Saver course. A whole lot more that your basic first aid. Combine that with a copy of The Ship's Medicine Chest and First Aid at Sea and you've got a very good start at being medically prepared for a serious downturn in society. The copy of the ships medicine chest had a very good what to stockpile in your kit


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

Another option would be to look into a Medic First Responder class. This is the level that a lot of Firefighters start out at at least. It'll give you all the fun first aid knowledge as well as more more things like how to take vital signs, oxygen administration, and a few airway devices that are fairly simple to use. In my area you also get a state licence with it and that requires continuing education to keep it up. But it's a good class that goes a little more in depth as to the wheres and whys of first aid/emergency medicine.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

SARGE7402 said:


> If you are looking for training, http://www.me.ngb.army.mil/units/rti/resources/IS0871_Edition_C_ALMS.pdf is the course material for the Army's Cmbat Life Saver course. A whole lot more that your basic first aid. Combine that with a copy of The Ship's Medicine Chest and First Aid at Sea and you've got a very good start at being medically prepared for a serious downturn in society. The copy of the ships medicine chest had a very good what to stockpile in your kit


Thanks! just downloaded both of those!


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