# ATF Soliciting Comments on Proposed Revisions to Firearms Transaction Record “4473"



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

*ATF Soliciting Comments on Proposed Revisions to Firearms Transaction Record "4473"*

Of course the changes are not positive.



> Fugitive from Justice: Any person who has fled from any State
> to avoid prosecution for a felony or a misdemeanor; or any person who leaves the State to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceeding. The term also includes any person who knows that misdemeanor or felony charges are pending against such person and who leaves the State of prosecution.
> 
> This seemingly suggests that if an individual were to cross state lines, even with the intent to return to their state while charges were pending, they are now a fugitive from justice for the purposes of the 4473. The potential implications of this interpretation are far reaching.


https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/04/12/atf-soliciting-comments-on-proposed-revisions-to-the-firearms-transaction-record-4473/

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2016-04-07/pdf/2016-07970.pdf


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## baldman (Apr 5, 2016)

Just wonderful. So you work out of state get in a scrape. You can't legally work until cleared up just great.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

It says any person who fled to another state to avoid prosecution. From a Federal standpoint US Marshals would have to prove that the person fled the state only to avoid prosecution before a UFAP (unlawful flight to avoid prosecution) warrant would issue. I would be opposed to this until they have been convicted of the felony with which they were charged. Once you are a CONVICTED felon you should never be allowed to possess or own a gun again.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> It says any person who fled to another state to avoid prosecution. From a Federal standpoint US Marshals would have to prove that the person fled the state only to avoid prosecution before a UFAP (unlawful flight to avoid prosecution) warrant would issue. I would be opposed to this until they have been convicted of the felony with which they were charged. Once you are a CONVICTED felon you should never be allowed to possess or own a gun again.


I disagree on the last part. If a person has served their punishment and can live in the community, then they should be able to own and bear arms.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

RedLion said:


> I disagree on the last part. If a person has served their punishment and can live in the community, then they should be able to own and bear arms.


How about someone who did time for murder? Assault with a deadly weapon? Armed car jacking? Attempted murder?


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> How about someone who did time for murder? Assault with a deadly weapon? Armed car jacking? Attempted murder?


What is the constitutional authority for revoking their rights forever?

If someone is too dangerous to own a gun then they are too dangerous to be freed from incarceration.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I am convinced that many people should NOT vote or own a firearm.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

RedLion said:


> I disagree on the last part. If a person has served their punishment and can live in the community, then they should be able to own and bear arms.


Free men have rights. If they aren't worthy of constitutional rights then they shouldn't be free.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> How about someone who did time for murder? Assault with a deadly weapon? Armed car jacking? Attempted murder?


They shouldn't be part of society.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Slippy said:


> I am convinced that many people should NOT vote or own a firearm.


And they should probably be turned into dog food.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

There are some felons who should be allowed to own firearms. I think it should be reviewed on a case by case basis. If a felon wants to own a firearm, let them go to their local LEO, case officer, whoever, so they can plead their case. I know a guy who made a dumb mistake a long time ago and got a felony because of it. I wouldn't have a problem with him owning a firearm. The law isn't always just.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

If your too dangerous to be rehabilitated or to become a productive member of society why are you walking the streets let alone worrying about voting or owning a gun? Some felonies are nonviolent like tax evasion or falling afoul of some obscure federal or state law which have ridiculous enough penalties without life prohibitions on basic freedoms. Or is it tax evasion is as bad as murder?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

People know that losing your right to vote and own firearms is part of the punishment for being a felon. It's not a secret or something new. It was your choice to do the crime so live with the consequences and stop whining.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

KUSA said:


> And they should probably be turned into dog food.


why not cat food ?


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Targetshooter said:


> why not cat food ?


It would take too long for the cats to eat them. Dogs would have them gone in a few days.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> How about someone who did time for murder? Assault with a deadly weapon? Armed car jacking? Attempted murder?


Yes. The key is safe enough to live in the community. If they are not then they should not be in the community.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

txmarine6531 said:


> There are some felons who should be allowed to own firearms. I think it should be reviewed on a case by case basis. If a felon wants to own a firearm, let them go to their local LEO, case officer, whoever, so they can plead their case. I know a guy who made a dumb mistake a long time ago and got a felony because of it. I wouldn't have a problem with him owning a firearm. The law isn't always just.


the state of Florida has this process. After a certain number of years a convicted felon can petition to have their rights restored.
I personally know a man who did, successfully.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

dsdmmat said:


> What is the constitutional authority for revoking their rights forever?
> 
> If someone is too dangerous to own a gun then they are too dangerous to be freed from incarceration.


What needed to be said was properly said here. ^^^

Also, the last sentence in the definition for a "Fugitive from justice" does not limit it to someone who claims they did it to avoid prosecution or to give testimony. It is far more vague, and we'd need to see the exact wording to know just how bad it could be.

*"The term also includes any person who knows that misdemeanor or felony charges are pending against such person and who leaves the State of prosecution."*
Half of Texarkana works across the border one way or the other. If we take the above statement in its broadest terms, if anyone is out on bail from a federal misdemeanor or felony, but have not had their day in court to settle it, they can't cross the border to shop, go to work, pick up their kid from daycare, etc...
Hell, let's imagine the crime took place in the state you work in, but not the state you live in. Are you allowed to return home? Would that simple act debar you the ability to purchase a firearm?

Horse-puckey!


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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

Delete it and the law that requires it.


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