# shtf alt energy best long term option



## bighunter

Hey everybody! I am new to the forum but I am not however new to the idea of prepping for a coming shtf situation, I am at this time only 17, and many people are not willing to listen to my ideas on prepping which is a shame because i am very adamant about it. my current project i have been working on for a few months is a alternative energy source in a shtf situation, a way to provide electricity and fuel for things like, radios, small survival based electronics, and household heat, water and vehicles. I have always been extremely intrigued at wood gassifiers and have thrown around the idea of using one as a piggyback to a genny which would provide electricity to the things i need. After doing some research, I fully understand how hard it would be to harvest the wood fuel to run the gassifier, which makes me think it might not be the best option for long term off grid electricity. I also have thrown around the idea of a alcohol still, which could be used to run a genny and vehicles, it could also double a good bartering tool for things that you might need. However a still needs a grain substance to yield alcohol, which could end up in disaster, considering a shtf situation could make raising these kind of crops extremely hard. I have not ever been very interested in solar power for long term usage, due to the fact that solar panels will not last forever and unreliable at best for your electricity needs. I am just looking for the best viable option to start making plans for my project. I appreciate any help and knowledge you guys could give me on this topic. :-D


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## PaulS

Solar, wind, and water power with Geo-sink for heating and cooling. With five acres in Jerusalem Artichokes you can produce 10000 gallons of alcohol each year so long as you can harvest the stalks before they flower twice each growing season. Leave the bulbs in the ground and you will have more plants in the following season. You also need a decent reflux still to get the highest yield for the lowest energy output. If you have enough waste you can make bio-gas and use it for heat and cooking. Use earth sheltered home for more heat retention and more comfort in winter and summer. Think like mother earth and waste nothing.


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## Smitty901

We are are kidding our self. Long term. Wood for heat and cooking. Even hot water for showers. But the generators LP,Gas and diesel are a short term item.
You can only stock pile so much fuel. 
IF and that is a big if SHTF and it gets so far gone there is no return. We will live as those that first settled this farm. No electric ,no gas.
The still will produce alcohol for burning and other uses but will not be relied on as a primary fuel.
Because growing food will be easy for us we are looking in to soybean oil.


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## bighunter

no im not kidding actually, I have methods of food, and heat. However i would have to disagree when you say gennys are short term. To some extent yes, if the shtf and the world was so far gone it wasnt going to come back for another 100 years to where it is now...or worse. Then for obvious reasons people would live without electricity. I should have been more clear in my post, in my shtf world i would want to be able to establish contact and keep it with my fellow prep community(radio). I also would want to have access to transportation if i needed it. both those things require energy and until i could establish a better communication method i would want these options readily available to me. Also i dont live near a large tributary but we have a well with plenty of clean fresh water but its deep so it runs off a electric pump


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## bighunter

Jerusalem Artichokes, now that is a new idea i shall have to look into that!


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## MrsInor

Welcome to the site.


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## HuntingHawk

Any type generator requires parts since they are mechanical & will break down.

Weak point of solar is the life of batteries.


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## Smitty901

We have such a small supply of on hand fuels that in short order it would be gone. If production were disrupted it is just not going to be available.
If refineries are not manned 24/7 and maintained they shut down quickly.
It will not take 100 years it will be days to weeks and fuel is something you tell you kids about in stories.
If you have even been in a country were STHF you would know how fast it is all gone, fuel food all the things you use everyday.
We have good generators and ones the use different fuels, they are still only a short term thing a week a month without power cut back run at a bare minimum even longer . The day will come they will shut down for the last time and no fuel truck will be coming. 
Wind stuff can supply some for awhile then it breaks along with the rest of it. Solar is still a joke for the most part you can get some out of it but not what they try to tell you.
I have been in countries a couple times in my life where SHTF big time. Those that could live off their land. The knew how to do without and survived. They had food they had water they stayed warm enough. There were many mostly in cities that just sat and waited suffering wondering when the power would come back. It don't come back as fast as it went off.
Fuel truck coveys miles long just to keep small parts of a couple cities running. And they could only move with full military protection.
Going to miss the chain saw cutting wood by hand will not be fun anymore. The wood stove hot water heat will provide hot showers life will not be all bad.


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## paratus

Best thing you can do if you don't expect civilization to ever return is take a lesson from Cuba.

They maintain 60+ year old cars with next to no replacement parts and make their own fuel. 

Even modern vehicles can be converted to operate without computers and fuel injectors. Got to have a lot of know how though.


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## budgetprepp-n

SMITTY901,
We usually agree on most things but I think solar power will bring some comfort to a lot of people. 
I'm not talking about the big set ups but rather the small ones. With a car battery and one solar panel to charge it I can run LED lights
for quite some time every night. I have LED lights in every room and with the flip off a switch I can run the regular lights,TV, and computer.
When the bright sunshine is hard to come by (like this time of year) I can still keep up with the LEDs and some small appliances.
I have a bunch of 1157 led standard tail light bulbs stored in my fairaday box and I pick up used solar panels when ever I can get them cheap.
In the summer I can run one 75 watt bulb and maybe some TV or computer time for about 10 hours and keep up and I have a small set up
compared to most. Only 300 watts of charging power and 6 batteries.

fairaday box <---- how do you spell that?


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## Montana Rancher

PaulS said:


> Solar, wind, and water power with Geo-sink for heating and cooling. With five acres in Jerusalem Artichokes you can produce 10000 gallons of alcohol each year so long as you can harvest the stalks before they flower twice each growing season. Leave the bulbs in the ground and you will have more plants in the following season. You also need a decent reflux still to get the highest yield for the lowest energy output. If you have enough waste you can make bio-gas and use it for heat and cooking. Use earth sheltered home for more heat retention and more comfort in winter and summer. Think like mother earth and waste nothing.


So much bullshit I can't really put forth a good rebuttal,

I am guessing a combination of book knowledge and optimum soil/water/weather combinations that make this even feasible.

If this was true we would give the freaking stiff arm to our Mideast partners and just grow our way out of the depression.

With all the spite and malice that I can put into a post, this is bullshit!


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## Seneca

Anything that requires heavy industry to produce or is complex is simply not going to go the distance in a long term SHTF scenario. 

Generators solar power are great in the short term. For long term they are just not going to be all that useful. Simple device and renewable energy sources can go the distance. A simple oil lamp and animal fat will still be making light long after the batteries and fossil fuel are gone.

Short to intermediate term I'd say go with the generators and solar panels, But a few of the simpler thing that were common place in the 1800's, oil lamps and wood stoves will go the distance.


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## HuntingHawk

1800s common folk used candles. Only weathier people could afford oil for oil lamps.


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## Seneca

I was thinking more along the line of the simple frontier style lamp with a bit of cotton string for the wick and some tallow or animal fat for the fuel. Candles are the better bet.

Wax for candle making would store longer than the fuel for a generator and still be useful long after the solar storage batteries die. One might even consider beekeeping for the honey and beeswax. 

When the infrastructure to support the technology is gone the technology it supported will follow, that is the harsh reality. 

That said I also believe generators and solar power would be good to have on hand for short or intermediate time frames.


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## budgetprepp-n

Can't you get wax from honey bees?


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## bighunter

Well guys this all good to hear, means i need to rething and replan. My goal is long term and if that means not relying on electricity then that means learning how to live off the land, to bad we are so reliant on electricity these days the people that dont know how to live off the land will die. I appreciate all the input you guys have put here. I need it. Althugh i still think a wood gas truck, with plebty of parts to maintain and fix over the years and a small supply of power to run some kind of post shtf communications is vital at the least, depending in the scenario it may or may not be best to keep in contact with some people that can aid you in time of need. While those people would need to be ones you trust your life with, i wouldnt want everyone knowing about my post shtf plans for very obvious reasons. Im now considering maybe a small genny with another small wood gas operation to run things like my ham radio and possibly short wave walkie talkie systems. I have a small group of pople i would want with me in a shtf situation. In case of emergency they would come into great habdy, my best friend for instense, a man i would trust with my life is very good with mechanics, something i am not and having people with alt skills is a must i believe, any thoughts?


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## bighunter

That is what i think im leaning to now, while general inftrastructure might be gone it could be helpful to keep in contact with some of my prepper buddies, to regroup and react


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## pheniox17

quality solar panels will last 25+ years, they have come a very long way in the past 20 or so years

if your talking longer than that most, if not all electronic goods will be r/s beyond repair by then and power storage is a dream, generator.. again unless it's a desal unit, it won't last 20+ year's of continuous use (if you magically solved the fuel issue) wind is another good technology, that if maintained will last, but for more than 25 years... doubtful

power should be looked at as a short term luxury in shtf events, and most shtf events are a few years tops, the generational ones are one part fantasy 3 parts we should prep for (if your prepared for zombies your prepared for anything) 

my 2 cents


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## BagLady

bighunter said:


> Well guys this all good to hear, means i need to rething and replan. My goal is long term and if that means not relying on electricity then that means learning how to live off the land, to bad we are so reliant on electricity these days the people that dont know how to live off the land will die. I appreciate all the input you guys have put here. I need it. Althugh i still think a wood gas truck, with plebty of parts to maintain and fix over the years and a small supply of power to run some kind of post shtf communications is vital at the least, depending in the scenario it may or may not be best to keep in contact with some people that can aid you in time of need. While those people would need to be ones you trust your life with, i wouldnt want everyone knowing about my post shtf plans for very obvious reasons. Im now considering maybe a small genny with another small wood gas operation to run things like my ham radio and possibly short wave walkie talkie systems. I have a small group of pople i would want with me in a shtf situation. In case of emergency they would come into great habdy, my best friend for instense, a man i would trust with my life is very good with mechanics, something i am not and having people with alt skills is a must i believe, any thoughts?


Get a horse for your traveling needs. Usefull for plowing too.


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## HuntingHawk

I'm confused about talking about long term yet talking communications electronics at the same time.


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## SARGE7402

HuntingHawk said:


> I'm confused about talking about long term yet talking communications electronics at the same time.


Hawk you've really hit the nail dead smack dab in the middle of the forehead. If we really do have a SHTF incident electric power is going to be one of those things that will tend to take a back seat. Remember the size of the network it takes to get from the southern states store to the farmer and then on to your grocery store for something simple like quaker oats. Not to mention the networks for water, electricity gas natural gas, and cell phone service. It's all well and good for each of us to prepare to live if a SHTF scenario arrives, but longer term plans need to be made to restore things on the local level. Where I live there are four - we'd have called them villages where I came from - small communities less than 500 families each in a six mile radius. And we've got some fairly decent truck farms close by. But each of these villages will need half a ton (over 1000 pounds) of Vegetables each just to survive. If the fuel supplies dwindle or the comm lines begin to die, these groups will all have to pull together just to prevent chaos from reigning.

Prep for the worst in the short term, but plan for your local to work together to pull your small area out of the 19th century.


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## HuntingHawk

Windmills are high maintenance. Solar electric panels are the way to go. Even if they only produce 50% after 30 years so what, they are still producing free electricity.


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## bighunter

extremely hard to maintain and they eat too much i dont believe its a viable source for transportation due to the fact that death is a serious factor. I have a uncle with horses and while working their over the summer to me a alt fuel truck or car i can repair and maintain would be well worth the time, to me a horse is out of the question


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## bighunter

the communication electronics wouldn't be used on a constant basis for long term anyways...My shtf plan would be to use those electronics to contact, collect information and for regrouping purposes.


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## pharmer14

I'm a fan of multiple sources if you can pull it off. I'd like to get a hydro-electric system running at my BOL. Unfortunately the water out of the spring I'd be using isn't always consistent, so that probably won't happen.

But think about it. If you were able to do solar, wind, and water power, that's 2 backup systems at any given time. 

Some people are a fan of geothermal for heat, but I'm a wood man if possible. Geothermal has a massive upfront cost associated with it. A lot of times that cost prohibits the investment. Wood is the complete opposite. You can harvest it for pennies and the wood stove won't cost much more. On top of that, you get some free exercise out of the deal.


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## quinnbrian

Have you looked into recycling plastic in crude oil? Look on utube. There will always be a lot of garage (plastics) kicking around after shtf.
I have built a wood gasifier worked great......but a lot of up keep. The good thing about a gasifier is the ability to co-gen , just rap a copper coil around the outside of the gasifier and you will have all the hot water you can uses, or run it into a rad to heat a space.
But I think the plastic recycling will work better in the cities or small towns where there will be a lot of produce kicking around.


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