# Opinions on bunkers



## Huzzah (Dec 28, 2018)

I have heard many different negative and positive opinions on bug-in bunker/shelters.
I personally believe that if you have the resources, in a SHTF situation, you should stay in your bunker as long as possible, through any situations.
But that's my idea, what's yours?

From me:vs_rocking_banana:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

To have a bunker means you aren't fluid. Come Hell or high water, there you are. I don't have a bunker and I never will.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Sort of like a place you can defend.

In a nuke situation, probably best idea. But then how long, where you go?


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

A nuclear bunker sure, but for TEOTWAWKI I'd rather not be boxed in so to speak. Many a castle has been taken by just sitting outside the walls until their food and water run out.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm more of a spider-hole guy. Rent a small trencher/backhoe and take a modern plastic septic tank (plumbed) out into the woods a distance. Plumb out breather holes to the bushes. Stock with sleeping bag, pad, water, scoped rifle, med supplies, Battery powered lantern, and food. If you get overrun, off to the spidey spot. Stay a couple days, then come back at night and snipe usurpers one at a time while they smoke or pee off the porch LOL.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

A bunker is all well and good if you happen to be near one when the missiles start flying. ( Hint: they are not going to tell you ) I have prepared to hunker down at my house, at least initially. This allows me more flexibility and the ability to adapt to the conditions. I am well fortified, well armed, and well informed. If necessary and conditions allow, I can sustain myself for well over a year.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I have a lower level which was to be a kid's bedroom. I'm thinking of hardening the walls and buying one of those metal doors. The room is also big enough to store ample food.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I prefer freedom of movement.
If any part of your bunker is visible, it would be a simple matter to root you out.
Perhaps engine exhaust gas thru the vent. Perhaps pouring gasoline in the vent followed by an ignition device (match, burning rag, etc).
Then it would be like Marines vs Japs in WW2. When you run out, you are gunned down.

Besides, you are in Orlando, dig down 10 feet and you’re in water. There’s a reason Florida homes don’t have basements.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

A bunker is only practical if you are able and willing to outlast the rest of humanity that's living outside your bunker.
If you aren't, time becomes another enemy. And it always wins.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

While bunkers have their place in prepping. I can afford it. There is no way I could move everything to BOL unless 
I get help, which might happen. While I think a nuke on my area is remote, my plans will entail diassembling my
concrete block fence (wall) around the house to build a fallout shelter. There is enough materials to do a sufficient job.
My basic plan, is to Bug In if at all possible. I have been saving electronics to throw out in the front yard to make it 
appear as if my house and the house next to me have been looted. I've created false signs, saying there is shelter, 
food, etc. that point scavengers and the like away from my subdivision. I'm looking at liberating a buch of sandbags 
from construction sites to build a sandbag wall by all my windows and doors as areas to defend my house if necessary.
Why, there is no way in hell that I can get out of Dodge if the highways are messed up.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Would be great to have underground shelter for nukes and tornadoes etc. Maybe even come in handy for various end of the world scenarios. As it stands now...it just aint in the budget. Thats why the Warden and I and fight on who gets the interior closet when a bad storm hits.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Bunker not really, darn good storm shelter you bet. While waiting on that storm it serves as a motorcycle room


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I'm looking at liberating a buch of sandbags from construction sites to build a sandbag wall by all my windows and doors as areas to defend my house if necessary.


Sandbags are probably available from your County before or during the rainy season... i.e June - July. Call the public works department. I have a County road maintenance sand/gravel yard just 2 miles away, normally not manned, they have a supply of already filled bags, and keep a supply of bundles of 100 bags in a 55 gallon barrel for flood control. I pick up a bundle or two every year, my tax dollars at work, price is right FREE.

Remember I am only about 90 miles from you.

*Rancher *


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

azrancher said:


> Sandbags are probably available from your County before or during the rainy season... i.e June - July. Call the public works department. I have a County road maintenance sand/gravel yard just 2 miles away, normally not manned, they have a supply of already filled bags, and keep a supply of bundles of 100 bags in a 55 gallon barrel for flood control. I pick up a bundle or two every year, my tax dollars at work, price is right FREE.
> 
> Remember I am only about 90 miles from you.
> 
> *Rancher *


How fortunate. Those County Barns have all kinds of cool things. In Texas they are normally always manned during bankers hours and its a good place to get skinned in a game of dominoes. Those guys work too hard.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Maybe the idea should not be to go 'down,' but go 'up.'

About twenty years ago I saw a story on TV where a a veteran bought an old water tower. He had a 360 degree view, the price was right, and except for radiation, it should deflect most attacks.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Having spent nights in a perimeter guard tower on Combat Base in Vietnam that is not a good idea.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well having been through a few tornadoes and helped pick up the pieces in others...it was amazing how all the round old round structures such as silos seemed to survive the winds just fine while the slab sided barns and houses got hammered. So hanging out in the water tower might be a good plan on that. Shooting bad guys from the inside should work. Now the walls might need some armor or something for when the bad guys shoot back. Now a metal water tower can repell quite a bit of small arms fire. \


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

My opinion on a bunker is it's just a fancy name for a coffin that you slowly die in.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I would agree with the "coffin" perspective, but not every day is the OK Corral. I've seen lots of water towers in my day, but I've never had the urge to check one for occupants. Wouldn't even a marauder assume the thing was full of stale liquid?

Just about every little burg in my area has a water tower bearing the town's name. However, those old towers were built decades ago, and now people have filtered, municipal water. People climb on them it's to spray paint their graduation year.

The problem with going 'down' in my area is that we had a summer of heavy rains and wet basements. Our home has those "piped tiles" but we do not have septic pumps. We're up a little bit and our suburb has an overflow acre with a wide, stone filled drainage spill-way. We stayed dry, but for the entire summer we figured bikers had about a dozen days to ride dry.

Would odd-ball weather flood or cause leaks in buried shelters?


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

The Tourist said:


> Maybe the idea should not be to go 'down,' but go 'up.'
> 
> About twenty years ago I saw a story on TV where a a veteran bought an old water tower. He had a 360 degree view, the price was right, and except for radiation, it should deflect most attacks.


Yeah, I remember eyeballing the huge concrete and steel tower at out local airport and thinking "Hmmmm... I gotta keep this location in mind just in case.


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## CoffeePot (Nov 9, 2018)

Could be good for riding out the initial chaos. But eventually you'll have to get out of it in order to find resources, or simply to keep from going crazy. A bunker is the last thing I would prep personally.
If its well hidden, it could be useful when hiding from raiders. Say a group of bandits overrun the town your in, you could theoretically wait until they leave to come out. This assumes that your very well hidden and that you have some form of surveillance. The biggest problem i see with a lot of modern bunkers is that people will put modern comforts in them, and then put a generator in them. A generator will draw in bandits like flies on crap. 
TLDR bunkers can be a good thing if you are smart about using them.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

StratMaster said:


> Yeah, I remember eyeballing the huge concrete and steel tower at out local airport and thinking "Hmmmm... I gotta keep this location in mind just in case.


I think it's the way to go. You can see trouble long before it comes. (I would fire all my stuff at various distances and mark each with a little, nondescript flag). You would be above flood stage. And most important, relatives would probably stay away--unless they were very hungry.

What ever happened to that compound Bo Gritz was building? I told my wife we should check it out, we had credentials. I'd set up a little sharpening and bullet casting shop, and my wife is a teacher. We were younger, and I was looking forward to it.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Everyone should at least have a tornado shelter / safe room. Sometimes all that can be is a small area in a closet reinforce walls and add a deceint door . But it you can make that room big enough to be a fall out shelter for nuclear. Building a home look at putting in a basement / partial basement with an outside door . Rig up an outside shower - simple as a palet and a house with sprayer. Look at building a mud porch entry way into the basement - either on a walkout or put a porch above a dorthy door . 

Lots of homes in my area are built like this - some families built then lived in the basement while they finishing the house above over time, sometimes years. Most put a canning kitchen in basement and use the area for storage anyway so turning it into a fall out shelter is not that hard as food storeage is already present. They grow and can as a way of living . The ceiling in those homes is just the underside of the subfloor so to provide better tornado survival the homes often have a corner that is concret blocked in to make a smaller room and they pour a concrete ceiling, add a heavy door. 


I have seen homes built such that 1000 sf of fallout, tornado shelter, safe room was built . The whole thing had in excess of 14 inches of concrete in the ceiling. Huge home - with a 4 car garage from one side of the home. exterior teh grage doors and a walkin door. You come in garage then it had a wide walkin door metal reinforced into a entryway with a shower follwed by anther metal reinforced door . Metal brakets in wall so bars can be dropped in place. Then they had that 1000sf area . I did not see it finished but a large wine storage rack was going in , assume other supplies , it had a bathroom with shower as well as plumbed up for a kitchen. 


Not exactly a bunker perhaps but a practical way to have a home and prep.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

StratMaster said:


> I'm more of a spider-hole guy. Rent a small trencher/backhoe and take a modern plastic septic tank (plumbed) out into the woods a distance. Plumb out breather holes to the bushes. Stock with sleeping bag, pad, water, scoped rifle, med supplies, Battery powered lantern, and food. If you get overrun, off to the spidey spot. Stay a couple days, then come back at night and snipe usurpers one at a time while they smoke or pee off the porch LOL.
> 
> View attachment 94475


Look at the directions that come with those plastic septic/water tanks . They will not withstand the wieght of surrounding soil without being filled with liquid. When you bury them you put 6 inches of sand/small gravel then 6 inches of water , layer more soil , fill some more water till you get it filled.

I have also seen folks who tried ot move one of those - it did not go well. They seemed to dig carefully , emptied it but still managed to ruin it lifting it out of the hole.

The price is pretty high since 2005 concrete has been cheaper or same price. The only time I have ever recommended a plastic tank is when you cannot get delivery truck to the location needed. I would advise looking at Norwesco products if you are thinking about plastic tanks. For septic concrete for water a round plastic water tank.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Fighting positions Look at digging a 4x4 x deep as you need it based on how tall you are. Use treated plywood to line it and treated 2x4 or 2x6 to brace walls . Make a cover for the top and camaflage it so it looks like your flower bed/ yard. To use lift cover and you got yourself a position Perhaps move some sandbags in front when needed. Plant some bushes to give yourself some cancealment when you are in the hole. You could use a hole like this for a short term hide but put a downed tree over top . You do not want someone failing in.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I guess to make this debate simpler is to first admit we will need a "safe place." In Mel Tappin's books he even chose an area to live where winds would not likely blow radioactive debris.

So having a bunker is better than not having one. The debate appears should it be up, down or mobile? I believe that choice depends on your personal condition, like age or mobility.

If I could, I would disguise mine as a brick wall or an already looted facility. Perhaps leave one can of dog food in plain sight so the looters see that it's the only thing left.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

RJAMES said:


> Look at the directions that come with those plastic septic/water tanks . They will not withstand the wieght of surrounding soil without being filled with liquid. When you bury them you put 6 inches of sand/small gravel then 6 inches of water , layer more soil , fill some more water till you get it filled.
> 
> I have also seen folks who tried ot move one of those - it did not go well. They seemed to dig carefully , emptied it but still managed to ruin it lifting it out of the hole.
> 
> The price is pretty high since 2005 concrete has been cheaper or same price. The only time I have ever recommended a plastic tank is when you cannot get delivery truck to the location needed. I would advise looking at Norwesco products if you are thinking about plastic tanks. For septic concrete for water a round plastic water tank.


Thanks... but I have several of these (as well as above ground tanks for water) and have been utilizing them for years. It's funny when you do something for a couple decades, and someone comes along and says "that won't work". Oh, and I bought ALL of my tanks from Norwesco.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

I have seen three non Norwesco collaspe when being backfilled when they did not follow manufacture recommendations to fill , backfill, fill, backfill in 3 to 6 inches at a time. I used to see 300 septic tanks and 10-15 water storage tanks go in a year for 15 years. Most of the septics were concrete only a few plastic ever used where a deliveryt ruck could get to. Plastic normally only used in this area where a truck cannot get in or out house, garage, fruit tree, prperty line , power line prevents the truck from getting in and setting a tank. In your area do you have heavy clay soil? Lots of water / soil moister or is it pretty dry. Many of my soils are heavy clay that can be very wet/ heavy most of the year. Those yellow tanks in the picture that was shown are worthless in my opinion. I got most of the retailers in my area to stop selling them . They were often shipped to the store without all the parts or instructions, usually the store had at least 4 contacts with the customer after the sale with lots of complaints.

Glad to hear those Norwesco products are working for you they have a 40 year reputation for well designed/ engineered products .


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

A bunker is practical in many applications. Tornado, fire, attack, etc. The goal should be clear up front. If your in it to avoid an immediate issue. then you have whats needed to live there that long.. waste removal, reclamation, of water etc would be major concerns for long durations. (you'd be surprised by how fast it accumulates). 

Also having a self contained air supply (fire/smoke, etc) and a transition point that is survivable (fire barrier/ hidden ventilation, etc) or adequate defense mechanisms, such as grenade traps, fuel traps (in the event someone wanted to try to force you out) and escape pathways could be needed.

Me...I'm a stay mobile kind of guy. Plan is to raid and plunder along my route. Supplement my diet of dogs and cats with cannibalism at a ratio that prevents Prion disease, yet also reduces competition for other foods out there. I will raid and plunder...staying in bunkers I locate along the way..... Are you getting one?....How much do you weigh? Just wondering is all.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

RJAMES said:


> I have seen three non Norwesco collaspe when being backfilled when they did not follow manufacture recommendations to fill , backfill, fill, backfill in 3 to 6 inches at a time. I used to see 300 septic tanks and 10-15 water storage tanks go in a year for 15 years. Most of the septics were concrete only a few plastic ever used where a deliveryt ruck could get to. Plastic normally only used in this area where a truck cannot get in or out house, garage, fruit tree, prperty line , power line prevents the truck from getting in and setting a tank. In your area do you have heavy clay soil? Lots of water / soil moister or is it pretty dry. Many of my soils are heavy clay that can be very wet/ heavy most of the year. Those yellow tanks in the picture that was shown are worthless in my opinion. I got most of the retailers in my area to stop selling them . They were often shipped to the store without all the parts or instructions, usually the store had at least 4 contacts with the customer after the sale with lots of complaints.
> 
> Glad to hear those Norwesco products are working for you they have a 40 year reputation for well designed/ engineered products .


Holy shit Rjames....Your in the Sewage business? And all this time I just thought you talked a lot of shit....didn't know you were in it professionally. Well done sir...well done.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

RJAMES said:


> I have seen three non Norwesco collaspe when being backfilled when they did not follow manufacture recommendations to fill , backfill, fill, backfill in 3 to 6 inches at a time. I used to see 300 septic tanks and 10-15 water storage tanks go in a year for 15 years. Most of the septics were concrete only a few plastic ever used where a deliveryt ruck could get to. Plastic normally only used in this area where a truck cannot get in or out house, garage, fruit tree, prperty line , power line prevents the truck from getting in and setting a tank. In your area do you have heavy clay soil? Lots of water / soil moister or is it pretty dry. Many of my soils are heavy clay that can be very wet/ heavy most of the year. Those yellow tanks in the picture that was shown are worthless in my opinion. I got most of the retailers in my area to stop selling them . They were often shipped to the store without all the parts or instructions, usually the store had at least 4 contacts with the customer after the sale with lots of complaints.
> 
> Glad to hear those Norwesco products are working for you they have a 40 year reputation for well designed/ engineered products .


No, just cheat. Fill in with a LOT of lightweight sawdust/chips rather than dirt. Cover up with pine needles. It won't collapse. But the bottom underneath should be carefully compacted and flat. Everything I have bought from Norweso has been great quality! Would you believe they had a sale about ten years ago, and I was able to order an 1100 gallon water tank for only $366 DELIVERED!?! Wish now I had bought THREE LOL. Oh, I forget to mention: the spiderhole concept is becoming a bit untenable as I age... getting pretty dang fat.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

A bunker, root cellar, cave, secret subterranean room all have a place in an over all plan. You just have to have additional options for when the challenges changes. No single plan works well for all possibilities circumstances.


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## CoffeePot (Nov 9, 2018)

The Tourist said:


> I guess to make this debate simpler is to first admit we will need a "safe place." In Mel Tappin's books he even chose an area to live where winds would not likely blow radioactive debris.
> 
> So having a bunker is better than not having one. The debate appears should it be up, down or mobile? I believe that choice depends on your personal condition, like age or mobility.
> 
> If I could, I would disguise mine as a brick wall or an already looted facility. Perhaps leave one can of dog food in plain sight so the looters see that it's the only thing left.


You could also build a false wall. Make bandits think they've found the bunker, when in reality there is another layer to it. Leave just enough supplies to fool em.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

CoffeePot said:


> You could also build a false wall. Make bandits think they've found the bunker, when in reality there is another layer to it. Leave just enough supplies to fool em.


Problem is..... if they take those supplies, you'll need to replenish them for the next band that comes through. Better to make it appear like there's nothing of value and it's already been looted.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Problem is..... if they take those supplies, you'll need to replenish them for the next band that comes through. Better to make it appear like there's nothing of value and it's already been looted.


That's where I meet the fork in the road. Do I make my "bug in" living area look deserted, or preempt their search by firing first? These are the questions that dog me in learning prepping. Just look at some of the photos from Ferguson. That was one part of one city, and the looters descended on shops with no remorse. Can you imagine that mindset on a national scale?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The Tourist said:


> That's where I meet the fork in the road. Do I make my "bug in" living area look deserted, or preempt their search by firing first? These are the questions that dog me in learning prepping. Just look at some of the photos from Ferguson. That was one part of one city, and the looters descended on shops with no remorse. Can you imagine that mindset on a national scale?


But how many were looting to actually survive (taking food, etc), and how many were looting for profit (they now wear a t-shirt that states, "I survived Ferguson and all I got was a lousy 96-inch flat screen")?


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> But how many were looting to actually survive (taking food, etc), and how many were looting for profit (they now wear a t-shirt that states, "I survived Ferguson and all I got was a lousy 96-inch flat screen")?


Sure, they were looting "toys" then. But do you think any of those guys work, or have a large amount of healthful food? In a crisis, they'll loot food, too.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The Tourist said:


> Sure, they were looting "toys" then. But do you think any of those guys work, or have a large amount of healthful food? In a crisis, they'll loot food, too.


In the beginning, there will still be some that will go after useless post-SHTF stuff. But when it comes to the _real_ preps, it's best to always remain silent, even now, as to what goodies you've got stashed away. Bragging about it to friends and neighbors, posting it all on your FaceSpace and MyBook pages, having your kids blabber at school... all just sets one up to lose it all rather quickly.

I know you know this. I'm just posting this for the benefit of those who are new to prepping.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> I know you know this. I'm just posting this for the benefit of those who are new to prepping.


Actually, I never thought of discussing prepping with someone over coffee. The subject has never come up.

But I do believe there is a social class or caste that believes some of my success in life should be given to them "to be fair." And if they don't get it exactly when they want it there will be a lot of shooting and threatening until someone complies.

In fact, in Madison if you're an ethnic under 21, even committing a felony, you can beat the rap by "apologizing." There's a name for this process, which has slipped from my memory, but it's something like "social justice" or something similar. The lunatics are actually running the asylum.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The Tourist said:


> Actually, I never thought of discussing prepping with someone over coffee. The subject has never come up.........


I have, but it's only with those I know will be loyal and faithful when SHTF. There's not too many, but there are those I trust and who trust me. A small, close-knit network where we can rely on each other.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Back Pack Hack said:


> In the beginning, there will still be some that will go after useless post-SHTF stuff. But when it comes to the _real_ preps, it's best to always remain silent, even now, as to what goodies you've got stashed away. Bragging about it to friends and neighbors, posting it all on your FaceSpace and MyBook pages, having your kids blabber at school... all just sets one up to lose it all rather quickly.
> 
> I know you know this. I'm just posting this for the benefit of those who are new to prepping.


in the early days of a serious SHTF the looting will be the same as always - looters are sheeple - they don't know any more about the seriousness of an EMP than the average Joe ....

stores will get partially looted before some looter decides to zippo the store >>>> all kinds of goods that would have SHTF useful will be burned & buried under the debris - when hunger sets in they'll be digging in the crapped out Kroger looking for the canned food aisle ....

it'll be the same with the residential looting that will start while the WalMart is still smoldering - if they aren't coming for you - they'll be after the usual goodies - won't be any concern about food or emergency gear >>> and you can be assurred there'll be plenty of arson ....


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Illini Warrior said:


> it'll be the same with the residential looting that will start while the WalMart is still smoldering - if they aren't coming for you - they'll be after the usual goodies - won't be any concern about food or emergency gear >>> and you can be assurred there'll be plenty of arson ....


While I know you're usually right, this is a time I hope you are wrong.

If looting and burning is going to be the general condition of a "riot," it only leaves us one choice. To protect what is saved and those who cannot run or walk, it leaves us with only one choice.

That being, shoot them all.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

StratMaster said:


> I'm more of a spider-hole guy. Rent a small trencher/backhoe and take a modern plastic septic tank (plumbed) out into the woods a distance. Plumb out breather holes to the bushes. Stock with sleeping bag, pad, water, scoped rifle, med supplies, Battery powered lantern, and food. If you get overrun, off to the spidey spot. Stay a couple days, then come back at night and snipe usurpers one at a time while they smoke or pee off the porch LOL.
> 
> View attachment 94475


Funny... I had the same idea, but I don't have the funds to pull it off. I've also wondered how one could be put underwater somehow, under a deck of a marina or similar place where nobody would think to look.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

BookWorm said:


> Funny... I had the same idea, but I don't have the funds to pull it off. I've also wondered how one could be put underwater somehow, under a deck of a marina or similar place where nobody would think to look.


That's over my little pointy head LOL...


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