# Seperation of church and state only applies to christians



## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Marine dad banned from school over Islam lessons fights back

Maybe their idea is that Islam isn't a religion after all


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm glad you brought this up Sarge, I haven't pointed out to the youngsters in a while that islam is NOT a religion. 

Rather it is a socio-poltical ideology of world domination through conversion under threat of death or simply by death. If you do not convert, they want you dead. Those who want you converted and are unwilling to kill you are also unwilling to denigrate those who want to kill you. And to make matters worse, they FUND those who are willing to kill.

But to your point, our propaganda laced government (re) education system will only use this false cliche of "separation of church and state" on Christianity.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Yeah. Because we all take Islamic holidays as paid vacations days, and start most sessions of Congress with Islamic prayers, and have fights over selling alcohol instead of abortions because no alcohol is an Islamic rule, etc. Truth is, intertwining of government and Christianity is so pervasive and habitual that people don't even notice it anymore ... until it's challenged. When entanglement with government is challenged, that's called 'persecution'.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Spice said:


> Yeah. Because we all take Islamic holidays as paid vacations days, and start most sessions of Congress with Islamic prayers, and have fights over selling alcohol instead of abortions because no alcohol is an Islamic rule, etc. Truth is, intertwining of government and Christianity is so pervasive and habitual that people don't even notice it anymore ... until it's challenged. When entanglement with government is challenged, that's called 'persecution'.


Amen!!


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Spice said:


> Yeah. Because we all take Islamic holidays as paid vacations days, and start most sessions of Congress with Islamic prayers, and have fights over selling alcohol instead of abortions because no alcohol is an Islamic rule, etc. Truth is, intertwining of government and Christianity is so pervasive and habitual that people don't even notice it anymore ... until it's challenged. When entanglement with government is challenged, that's called 'persecution'.


Christmas and what else?

And abortion is murder if the fetus can live outside the womb on its own.

But hey Islam is like th Slipmaster says no different than being a nazi


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Separation of Church and State.

Why are they teaching this class? There shouldn't be any public education focused on Religion at all. It's not necessary. School should focus on reading, writing, arithmetic, etc. And this class is a requirement at this high school...

If you want your kids to learn about religion in school, that's why we have private schools.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Spice said:


> Yeah. Because we all take Islamic holidays as paid vacations days, and start most sessions of Congress with Islamic prayers, and have fights over selling alcohol instead of abortions because no alcohol is an Islamic rule, etc. Truth is, intertwining of government and Christianity is so pervasive and habitual that people don't even notice it anymore ... until it's challenged. When entanglement with government is challenged, that's called 'persecution'.


Since Christianity was and still is the predominant religion (71% of the US identifies themselves as Christians as of 2014), and in Europe where most of the people came from and settled in the US, it was the norm for religion to be melded with government (coronations of kings, etc. was by a high ranking church officials), hence the swearing in ceremony using a bible.

Initially three southern states passed acts making Christmas a holiday. 
In 1870 Christmas was made a legal holiday: "An Act making the first Day of January, the twenty-fifth Day of December, the fourth Day of July, and Thanksgiving Day, Holidays, within the District of Columbia. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following days, to wit: The first day of January, commonly called New Year's day, the fourth day of July, the twenty-fifth day of December, commonly called Christmas Day, and any day appointed or recommended by the President of the United States *as a day of public fast or thanksgiving*, shall be holidays within the District of Columbia, and shall, for all purposes of presenting for payment or acceptance of the maturity and protest, and giving notice of the dishonor of bills of exchange, bank checks and promissory notes or other negotiable or commercial paper, be treated and considered as is the first day of the week, commonly called Sunday, and all notes, drafts, checks, or other commercial or negotiable paper falling due or maturing on either of said holidays shall be deemed as having matured on the day previous.

So you can see the enactment of the Christmas holiday was not created to honor or give worship to any god or credence to any religion. However over time the populace of the US (strongly pushed by advertising I believe over the last half century) changed the meaning of Christmas to more closely match the idea of the very popular song of 1934, "Santa Claus Is Coming to Town".

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/Federal_Holidays.pdf

The text of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

While I know that most people who feel that Christianity is a religion and therefore should not have any incorporation into any of the government proceedings like the ones you mentioned, I and I feel a majority of the US disagree with you. Yes I am a Christian, but my church, my religion is not known by its generic name of Christian, just as Fords and Chevy are automobiles but their name is not Automobile. Since the government does not push any one religion on you or anyone else, I feel that you are wrong in your interpretation of the meaning of the First Amendment. Also nowhere in the text of the First Amendment does it say anything about "the separation of church and state". This is how Obama has sent millions of dollars to rebuild destroyed mosques around the world. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd suggest you read and mull over the First Amendment before basing your opinion on popular misunderstandings.

Ok, I will relinquish my soap box so you can use it.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Saying Christianity is not a religion is a mere linguistic dodge. There are lots of varieties of Christianity, and all of them are religions. 'Christianity' is a basket term to hold all the others. They all have major religious tenets and some religious laws (such as the ten commandments) in common. In effect then, 'Christianity' is a super-set of religions; therefore entwining it with the government entwines religion with government.

As for 'the majority' argument...Yes, it's true. But our government was set up in part to protect the minority from getting steamrolled by the majority - else why have the First Amendment at all? 

I'm with Ark: Get all the religions out of the schools, out of the government period. 

And that includes not spending money to rebuild mosques. And it includes ignoring whether organizations choose to define themselves as 'religious' for purposes of taxation. And it includes ignoring whether a school club defines itself as religious for purposes of determining if it can use school facilities. And it includes making laws against behaviors that promote persecution of individuals, regardless of if those behaviors claim religious motivation. This is one more big area where we just Don't Need Government and should resist Every side's attempts to co-opt governmental power to further their own cause.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The separation of church and state was a concept penned by Thomas Jefferson.
It does not appear in any official document establishing these United States.
Its original context was to suggest that the state should have no say in matters of the church.
This sentiment is echoed in the first amendment, stating that congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion.

Injecting religion into state matters, however, was never a point of contention.
Official ceremonies were opened with prayer, God was mentioned in arguments for human rights and dignity, and religion played a large role in laying the foundation for this country.
It is when the roles are reversed, and the state injects itself into religion, that we can point to Jefferson's words and exclaim, "This shall not stand".

If the school in question held as its proclaimed stance that Islam was their chosen religion, and that they would teach it to the students, *THEN* we would have an official problem on our hands.
The authorities within the school seem to project such a stance, though no official evidence is present to argue it.
Until then, it is a matter of differing opinion on what should and should not be taught in school.
This would be similar to the fuss that came about when creationism was brought up as a potential school lesson.

For the record, the teacher crossed the line too many times for me to accept this was a "history lesson".
Forcing the female students to write down their inferiority toward men should have earned a boot in the ass from the Marine father.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Oh, Crap! I answered on a religious thread!!!

BAD SALTY! BAD SALTY! NO Biscuit! Bad boy!


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I'm sorry, this will piss some people off, but the most persecuted group in history is the white male Christian, who will be forever be punished for crimes of his ancestors, and for crimes perceived to have been comitted by his ancestors, despite all historical evidence to the contrary. 

The difference is that they won't be slaves, or subservient to women, or executed for their religion, (ok, actually every one of those is false, it's all happened)


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Yes, I like to look back to the foundational days of the nation to see how it is supposed to be.

“The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.” – United States Congress 1782 

Let me put it this way.

The federal government is not allowed to prefer one denomination over another. This crap of removing Christianity from public education is a lie, and the lie is part of an overall agenda.

So, let's look at this from the point of the founding fathers while pretending the lie that school is teaching is part of the overall Abrahamic religion. At very best, it is an extreme "denomination," and the federal government has no business pushing it. As "public education" accepts federal money, they can't do that. After all, isn't that the basis of the "no Christianity in school" lie?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Spice said:


> Saying Christianity is not a religion is a mere linguistic dodge. There are lots of varieties of Christianity, and all of them are religions. 'Christianity' is a basket term to hold all the others. They all have major religious tenets and some religious laws (such as the ten commandments) in common. In effect then, 'Christianity' is a super-set of religions; therefore entwining it with the government entwines religion with government.
> 
> As for 'the majority' argument...Yes, it's true. But our government was set up in part to protect the minority from getting steamrolled by the majority - else why have the First Amendment at all?
> 
> ...


As usual, we have a difference of opinion. As I said, you are entitled to it as am I. I do feel that injecting religious, any religious teaching into a publicly supported school, as apposed to a school owned and operated by a religious group is wrong. In doing so, I feel they are not following the part, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," unless they give equal time to all religious teachings.


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm glad to see that this guy is fighting back. I remember what I was taught in High School about Islam, and it sounds just like what the article talks about. It wasn't until I had, had some first hand experiance that I started to question it, and decided to look a little deeper. Guess what? Allah and Yahweh/Jehovah sure as heck ain't the same being.


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