# EMP protection, what I found



## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

All of what I've read about protecting your electronics from EMP as been conjecture, assumptions and myths mostly posted on forums, but I've seen nothing that gave a clear and concise answer, like, No an EMP will not take out your phone if you put it in a microwave, Faraday cage, Faraday bag, trash can .85843 nanoseconds before the EMP hits.
So I decided to search until I found something a little more tangible. 
I was in about 8 pages on the Google search before I got past all the prepper, survival, gun and flashlight forums when I ran across this apparently declassified DHS 96 page document.
The subjects seems to be a bigger GovCo secret then I thought it would be. I'm sure they've tested, at least against military equipment, they just don't want to share.

Scientifically it is pretty far over my head and I don't read scientist speak no so well.

https://info.publicintelligence.net/DHS-FacilitiesGuidelinesEMP.pdf


----------



## MikeTango (Apr 13, 2018)

At one point in my career... Dang it! I can’t talk about it... But I can say I’ve seen some pretty sweet EMP hardened equipment up close and personal. One device was enclosed in a very sophisticated faraday cage. Was super cool! 

Anyway...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

MikeTango said:


> At one point in my career... Dang it! I can't talk about it... But I can say I've seen some pretty sweet EMP hardened equipment up close and personal. One device was enclosed in a very sophisticated faraday cage. Was super cool!
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


^^^ Case in point


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

There's plenty of good info out there.






https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Preparedness-Attacks-Storms-Expanded/dp/1478376651


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Two of the best sources for EMP info that I have come across, including "Starfish Prime" which much of our current understanding is based off of.

http://www.group47.com/Starfish_Prime_and_Power_Of_EMP.pdf

http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf


----------



## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Cool
Thank for the links


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I too have found so much BS on websites. Unless the author has the letters behind his name to 
indicate he knows what he is talking about, I don't bother reading.
These are the websites I've found that appear to be accuarte.

E1 of EMP	http://www.futurescience.com/emp/ferc_meta-r-320.pdf 
E3 of EMP	http://www.futurescience.com/emp/ferc_meta-r-321.pdf 
EMP	http://fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm 
EMP	Electromagnetic Pulse - Nuclear EMP - futurescience.com 
EMP	Electromagnetic Pulse - Soviet Test 184 - EMP 
EMP	Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack 
EMP myths	Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com
EMP	http://www.doh.wa.gov/portals/1/Documents/Pubs/320-090_elecpuls_fs.pdf 
EMP Gounding	Grounding for Electromagnetic Pulse Protection - Futurescience.com - EMP
EMP on Vehicles	EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com
EMP protection	Electromagnetic Pulse Protection - EMP - Futurescience.com 
HEMP hardening	https://www.wbdg.org/ccb/FEDMIL/std188_125_1.pdf


----------



## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Paraquack,
That's what I kept running into. I'm depending on that kind of info for a piece of gear working when I need it most.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

@Lunatic Wrench Thanks so much for your work in finding that DHS document. I hadn't seen that one before. It is a goldmine of EMP information.

I've put a link to it in the Library so we can all find it when this post falls back into the board. Thanks again.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

@paraquack Hey para, FYI the last document on your list, "HEMP hardening" is a dead link.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> @paraquack Hey para, FYI the last document on your list, "HEMP hardening" is a dead link.


Thanks for the notice. Fortunately I download everything in case someone wants it. But it is pretty dry reading.


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

MikeTango said:


> At one point in my career... Dang it! I can't talk about it... But I can say I've seen some pretty sweet EMP hardened equipment up close and personal. One device was enclosed in a very sophisticated faraday cage. Was super cool!
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Didn't happen without pictures.

Joking

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

paraquack said:


> Thanks for the notice. Fortunately I download everything in case someone wants it. But it is pretty dry reading.


I might want it. What does the H stand for?

Edit: HEMP - HighAltitudeEMP. Got it. Yes, I'd like the article. Email? or? Thanks!


----------



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

This stuff is all Greek to me. Can you give us the readers digest version? What do you need to do to EMP proof something the right way?


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Annie said:


> This stuff is all Greek to me. Can you give us the readers digest version? What do you need to do to EMP proof something the right way?


Depends on what the 'something' is. A car and a pocket radio require vastly different methods.


----------



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Depends on what the 'something' is. A car and a pocket radio require vastly different methods.


Well, if possible I would like to know both.

Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


----------



## MikeTango (Apr 13, 2018)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Didn't happen without pictures.
> 
> Joking
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Even if I could've managed to get a camera past the full body X-ray scanners I probably wouldn't have risked snapping a photo. The security force escorting my group for the day carried locked and loaded select fire rifles. You just wouldn't have wanted to tempt one of those fellas...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Annie said:


> Well, if possible I would like to know both.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


I doubt there's an all-inclusive 'how-to handbook' on the subject.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

MountainGirl said:


> I might want it. What does the H stand for?
> 
> Edit: HEMP - HighAltitudeEMP. Got it. Yes, I'd like the article. Email? or? Thanks!


 Yall had me on that one I though the HEMP Harding meant everyone fire one up and soon forgot about the whole EMP thing.
The type of EMP we trained for years ago was only related to a side effect of a Nuke explosion. Of course now they have found other was to cause it with out blowing everything up.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

For Annie: protecting something small is fairly easy. From reading tons of material, I wrap my radios (an example) by putting in the smallest cardboard box it will fit into. The box is also electrical insulation. I wrap the box in aluminum foil, sufficiently large enough to create multiple folds of each seam. Each fold must be squeezed down as tight as possible. I usually put at least 3 folds per seam. Then I wrap this package in HD plastic film like that used in construction (4 mil or 4/1000's inch thick). I wrap this in aluminum foil again, the same way. I end up with a total of 3 layers of foil/plastic and always have plastic on the outside to protect the foil from tears. Any rip or tear in the foil is bad. Either replace the foil or seal the rip with aluminum foil tape (available from Home Depot). Then it goes into a garbage can Faraday cage. If it is a one of a kind or extremely important, I'll give it a fourth layer of foil/plastic. 























These bags are OK but very expensive compared to foil and aren't as good, if you do a good job of folding the seams.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Some new info for those interested, including that Trump is making preparation a priority and that an estimated cost to harden the U.S. grid would be about $2 billion.



> U.S. Urged to Rapidly Prepare for Electromagnetic Pulse Attack
> 
> World War II-style Manhattan Project needed for electric infrastructure protection


https://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-urged-rapidly-prepare-electromagnetic-pulse-attack/


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Ok, I am looking at making a 55 gallon drum faraday cage. The plan is to use an open top drum that is coated with pickup bedliner to prevent corrosion, lined with foam, and sealed with aluminum tape before the ring is put on. I am finding very mixed information on grounding. Some say grounding ads an antenna, some say ungrounded the cage is worthless. What have others here found?


----------



## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Does a 55 gallon drum have enough "metal" to take the impact of a lightning strike or just a 110 volt outlet? I've wondered about making the spare downstairs bedroom a "safe room" and simply add another layer (or two) of basement style bricks. I'm not sure that bricks like that could stop even a garden variety rifle shot.

I'm wondering if I should be on the look-out for old billiard ball tables. Will slate be enough, as well?


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The Tourist said:


> Does a 55 gallon drum have enough "metal" to take the impact of a lightning strike or just a 110 volt outlet? ......


120 volts from your house is nothing for a 55-gal drum. I may make a small pit and burn mark, but it'll survive easily.

Lighting? No way to tell. If the strike is strong enough, there's gonna be collateral damage.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Have you read any of Dr. Bradley's or Jerry Emanuelson? They have a lot of great info out there. Unfortunately Dr Bradley trys to sell a lot of "EMP proof" bags that can be better replaced with aluminum foil for a couple of pennies on the dollar. I've got a ton of their info, here is some great reading. I've watched a lot of Dr Bradleys videos on Youtube, and have found the aluminum foil is better and a ton cheaper.

Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com

Super Electromagnetic Pulse Weapons - Futurescience.com

EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com

http://www.ferc.gov/industries/electric/indus-act/reliability/cybersecurity/ferc_meta-r-320.pdf

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/ferc_meta-r-321.pdf

Electromagnetic Pulse Protection - EMP - Futurescience.com

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/771997.pdf

Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com

Super Electromagnetic Pulse Weapons - Futurescience.com

EMP Effects on Vehicles - Futurescience.com

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/ferc_meta-r-321.pdf

Electromagnetic Pulse Protection - EMP - Futurescience.com

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/771997.pdf

http://www.sunshineworks.com/faraday-cage-building-material.htm


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

paraquack said:


> Have you read any of Dr. Bradley's or Jerry Emanuelson? They have a lot of great info out there. Unfortunately Dr Bradley trys to sell a lot of "EMP proof" bags that can be better replaced with aluminum foil for a couple of pennies on the dollar. I've got a ton of their info, here is some great reading. I've watched a lot of Dr Bradleys videos on Youtube, and have found the aluminum foil is better and a ton cheaper.
> 
> Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com
> 
> ...


My problem is there is conflicting information from multiple sources. Some say to ground it, some say do not. Some say cardboard is a good insulator, some say it attracts moisture and should not be used. Some sources say you do not need to insulate things at all because the faraday cage only conducts on the outer skin. There is a whole bunch of information in the sources you listed, bit very little on how to build the most effective faraday cage. The most helpful was the guy with the signal generator and trash can/emp bags, but I have also seen reputable sources say that simply RF radiation does not provide a legitimate test method.


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

paraquack said:


> Have you read any of Dr. Bradley's or Jerry Emanuelson? They have a lot of great info out there. Unfortunately Dr Bradley trys to sell a lot of "EMP proof" bags that can be better replaced with aluminum foil for a couple of pennies on the dollar. I've got a ton of their info, here is some great reading. I've watched a lot of Dr Bradleys videos on Youtube, and have found the aluminum foil is better and a ton cheaper.
> 
> Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com
> 
> ...


My problem is there is conflicting information from multiple sources. Some say to ground it, some say do not. Some say cardboard is a good insulator, some say it attracts moisture and should not be used. Some sources say you do not need to insulate things at all because the faraday cage only conducts on the outer skin. There is a whole bunch of information in the sources you listed, bit very little on how to build the most effective faraday cage. The most helpful was the guy with the signal generator and trash can/emp bags, but I have also seen reputable sources say that simply RF radiation does not provide a legitimate test method.


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

The last link does not work. The second to last link would probably be the most useful if I were a mathematician, unfortunately I am not.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I only read articles and info from poeple who have the letteres after their name to indicate they actually know of what they speak. Both Jerry Emanuelson BSEE and Dr Bradely PhD have the credentials necessary.
All the info I trust says nothing about grounding. As far as cardboard, yes it will collect and hold moisture. I use 4 mil plastic sheeting, then a double layer of aluminum foil with then seams folded over 2-3 times and compressed as much as I possible can. Then a second layer of each and a third layer of each. Dr Bradley has videos of him "testing" his "EMP bags" using a two way radio, because an EMP is an Electromagnetic Pulse, same as a radio wave is an Electromagnetic wave. Being an Amateur Extra ham operator, I used 2 4-watt ham radios at 440+ MHz to recreate the DR's "tests". One layer of aluminum foil was superior to 3 of his "best" bags, one inside another inside another. Following Emanuelson's recommendation I use 3 layers of foil with HD plastic sheeting between each layer of foil. So, if my one layer of foil with insulating HD, plastic sheeting is as good as his 3 "best" bags, 3 layers of foil should offer many thousands of times the protection, if his figures of 90 dB protection for 3 bags is correct. His chart shows shows each of his bags as providing 18 dB of protection. But he says 3 of his bags should be about 90 to 100 dB of protection. And I put these foil, sealed packages in a metal garbage can sealed with foil tape See chart below. If you want more info, PM me, I've been studding EMPs since about 2005. I even made up a PPT for my local group and the prepper ham students I teach. But I would need your personnal email address. Ever see the cell phone in the microwave test. Don't believe it. It's an electonic trick. I can do the same thing with 2 Cheetos bags. It's in the PPT.


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

jimb1972 said:


> ........ but I have also seen reputable sources say that simply RF radiation does not provide a legitimate test method.


This is true. Just tossing your cell phone into an ammo can, calling it and not hearing it ring doesn't make the ammo can a good faraday cage. It may be a good one at the frequency the phone is operating at, but at other frequencies it will fail miserably.

I've seen people put a simple AM radio in their microwave and it quits picking up the local country rock station. Again.... it works _at a specific frequency_.

The _strength_ of the signal is another factor. An EMP that originates 20-30 miles right above you will have more of an effect than an identical source several hundred miles away.


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> This is true. Just tossing your cell phone into an ammo can, calling it and not hearing it ring doesn't make the ammo can a good faraday cage. It may be a good one at the frequency the phone is operating at, but at other frequencies it will fail miserably.
> 
> I've seen people put a simple AM radio in their microwave and it quits picking up the local country rock station. Again.... it works _at a specific frequency_.
> 
> The _strength_ of the signal is another factor. An EMP that originates 20-30 miles right above you will have more of an effect than an identical source several hundred miles away.


I have also read that proximity is not a reliable indicator of intensity either, and that the most damage would be delivered at an angle from the detonation site. The more I read the more theory resembles voodoo.


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

jimb1972 said:


> I have also read that proximity is not a reliable indicator of intensity either, and that the most damage would be delivered at an angle from the detonation site. The more I read the more theory resembles voodoo.


Long story short: There's scant reliable evidence due to lack of methodical testing. The only real way to get down to brass tacks is to start setting off EMPs at various frequencies, intensities, heights and angles from a test location.

Of course, that's going to go over about as well as Beto taking our ARs and AKs.


----------



## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

Not sure if this has been addressed as yet but......EMP's aren't always man-made. The sun can also produce an EMP if there's enough flare activity. Then there's the # of grids in the US that can be effected. We have 3 grid systems. East, West (I think the Mississippi River is the divider)…..then there's Texas (ERCOT). Not sure how they got their own but there it is. 



So if we are hit with an EMP, regardless of it's source, and only a small fraction of the population have successfully protected their electronics...….who ya gonna call??


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)




----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

An EMP will cover a frequency range from maybe a 100 MHz to 100 GHz or so. The protection needed should be as high as you can afford to do. 
That's why I use the triple foil wrap with insulating plastic between each layer and then everything goes into sealed, metal garbage can sealed 
with foil tape. Inspect the can. I found a can with hollow, riveted handles that had to be sealed with tape. I opted to solder the rivets closed. 
I removed the handles on the top of the garbage can lid and soldered the holes closed. That way I can stack the cans one atop another to save
space. 

As far as the sun, A CME can create a Magnetic storm. According to Dr. Bradley, as long as the elctronic device is not plugged into and outlet, it
will be fine.

One thing I was not originally aware of. Some lithium batterys have internal regulators to prevent over charging. This could be damaged by an
EMP, so I now triple wrap my lithium batteries with aluminum foil and plastic and store them in a good sized candy tin with full cover. I used a 
wire brush on a bench grinder to remove the paint for a metal to metal connection and seal it with foil tape so I can take them out and charge
and run them couple of times a year.


----------

