# What is the best load in .223 for hunting deer for a Model 70 rifle?



## GoodSam (Oct 1, 2018)

I recently bought a Winchester Model 70 bolt action rifle in .223 that I got a really great deal on at a LGS. The rifle looks new and came with a scope. In fact, I thought it was a brand new rifle until the guy behind the counter informed me that it wasn't. He said they had priced it so low as it had been sitting around for over a year, nobody wanted it due to it's small caliber. 

I'll admit that I am not that familiar with traditional deer rifles like this and I'm not a deer hunter but I wanted to get a start with something and hopefully go hunting someday and I love the way the Model 70 looks and it's a nice gun. I probably could never have afforded to get a Model 70 otherwise had I found one with a more respectable caliber. It would've been over twice the price and with no scope included. The gun is currently on layaway so I apologize that I cannot share any photos of it at this time.

I have been doing some research and it appears that you can hunt deer with the .223 if using the right load although it's not a very common practice. I wanted to know which are the best loads/brands to consider for deer hunting with this rifle.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I do not hunt. But a number of friends do.
None of them use anything lighter than a 25/08, which is a 25 caliber projectile loaded in a necked down .308 case.
Most use a .30 of some variety.
And deer in Georgia and Florida don't get real big.

You want something that is heavy enough to give a good, damaging, heart/lung shot and exit out the other side so you will have a good blood trail to follow.

Use the .223 for varmints, which was its original purpose before being turned into a military round.
Buy a Savage bolt action in .308 for deer.


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## GoodSam (Oct 1, 2018)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I do not hunt. But a number of friends do.
> None of them use anything lighter than a 25/08, which is a 25 caliber projectile loaded in a necked down .308 case.
> Most use a .30 of some variety.
> And deer in Georgia and Florida don't get real big.
> ...


I have heard of some people who hunt deer with AR-15's, meaning they are using a .223 or a 5.56 NATO which is not all that more powerful. They say it can get the job done in a pinch when using the right load. I have seen one potent .223 load touted as being good for dear but I don't know how effective they really are or if it's just hype.

Either way, I now have a nice Model 70 which I always wanted to train on and get familiar with in the meantime and then move up to a larger caliber rifle later. At this point it doesn't look like I will be going hunting anytime soon anyhow. Still, I want to keep my options open for now and get the most effective rounds I can if I ever need them.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The bare minimum I know of being used in North Florida/South Georgia is a 100 grain .243.
If you are going to shoot an animal, you at least owe it a quick death. And not running off to die a couple days later. "They say it can get the job done in a pinch" does not sound ethical, to me anyway.

The .223/5.56 is very dependent on rifling twist rates in barrels. There are people here who know way more about it than I, perhaps some will chime in.


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## GoodSam (Oct 1, 2018)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The bare minimum I know of being used in North Florida/South Georgia is a 100 grain .243.
> If you are going to shoot an animal, you at least owe it a quick death. And not running off to die a couple days later. "They say it can get the job done in a pinch" does not sound ethical, to me anyway.
> 
> The .223/5.56 is very dependent on rifling twist rates in barrels. There are people here who know way more about it than I, perhaps some will chime in.


Sorry to sound like a jerk but if I were in a real survival scenario I wouldn't be too concerned about the ethical treatment of animals. I personally don't enjoy killing animals but I want to learn some hunting/survival skills and make the most of what I have at the moment in case I ever need to make due with it in a pinch. Not everyone will have the optimum rifle/caliber available to them for a specific animal and right now that person is me.

In the meantime the Model 70 .223 will make a good trainer rifle and I will work on getting something larger in the near future.


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## Tango2X (Jul 7, 2016)

Deer are not hard to kill.
Bullets from 60 gr and up will do the job, depending on the twist.
Find out what your rifle shoot best. Will take some range time.
I would use 60 gr Nosler partitions if the rifle likes them.


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## WhatTheHeck (Aug 1, 2018)

I agree with Rice Paddy Daddy on all points.

And if you have ever had to track a wounded animal for hours, through brush, woods, marsh, swamp etc. you are going to understand the importance of an ethical kill.

Even more so in a survival scenario.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I am hunting deer with an AR this year, but in 450 Bushmaster. .223 is illegal for deer in most states and I wouldn't recommend it. Heavier soft point bullets would likely be best to decrease the chance of bullet deflection, if I needed to eat and .223 was all I had I would probably try to shoot a deer in the head.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

If your rifle will camber it correctly the 77gain would work best. A 5.56 will take deer . In Wisconsin most deer shot are less than 300 yards and more likely 100-150. Well placed shot will do the job. I don't recommend it but yes it can be used. To many low cost used 30-30's around.
Yes SHTF most rules go out with the trash.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Doesn't the military use the 556 to kill people? How much bigger is a deer without body armor?? Just use a quality 60 to 80 grain hollow point with good shot placement you'll be fine. The good ole 22 caliber has been taking deer for many years, even rim fire's. So I've been told. 

You don't need a fricken cannon to kill a deer. Heck just use a sharp stick and string which is legal, but a rifle isn't.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Chipper said:


> Doesn't the military use the 556 to kill people? How much bigger is a deer without body armor?? Just use a quality 60 to 80 grain hollow point with good shot placement you'll be fine. The good ole 22 caliber has been taking deer for many years, even rim fire's. So I've been told.
> 
> You don't need a fricken cannon to kill a deer. Heck just use a sharp stick and string which is legal, but a rifle isn't.


The military uses 5.56 to "kill people" although one of the sited advantages of the round when it was adopted was that it is far more likely to wound an enemy than the .308 round was (wounding an enemy takes away more combat power than killing him, because he needs to be cared for).

Having said that, you can legally hunt with a .223 in Wisconsin (the home state of the original poster). In many states, it is considered an inadequate round and therefore illegal for big-game hunting like deer.

I wouldn't personally hunt deer with a .223, I like a much more potent round for deer (I have two deer rifles, a 7.62x39 bolt gun and a .308) but you can do it.

Like the others, I would use the heaviest grain bullet the gun will shoot. One round I think would work OK (again, I wouldn't personally shoot a deer with a .223/5.56, but...) is the Hornady GMX. I've used them on coyotes and they don't explode on impact like a lot of hollow-point .223 rounds do (they stay together but expand to max penetration).

That's what you are looking for, a round that maintains it's integrity but yet expands.

I love the 7.62x39 for deer hunting, it's ballistics are nearly the same as the 30-30 and most of my hunting is within 100 yards. It hits like a ton of bricks and I don't have to track deer far.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Chipper said:


> Doesn't the military use the 556 to kill people? How much bigger is a deer without body armor?? Just use a quality 60 to 80 grain hollow point with good shot placement you'll be fine. The good ole 22 caliber has been taking deer for many years, even rim fire's. So I've been told.
> 
> You don't need a fricken cannon to kill a deer. Heck just use a sharp stick and string which is legal, but a rifle isn't.


But by using a larger bullet you'll increase your chances of a clean kill and increase your chances or finding the deer.

I'll use 5.56 for 150 lb hogs but I rarely want to collect the hog. For deer which I want to eat I use at least a 6.8.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

While I would use a larger caliber to hunt deer, here is an article that might help.



> Is the .223 Remington a Viable Deer Cartridge?





> Since we're dealing in facts-not what grandpa told you-let's reexamine the .223 Remington's real capabilities. Much of what the great hunting magazine gurus wrote decades ago, and what we often take as gospel, was made obsolete by the innovation of modern premium bullets. My preferred deer load for the .223 Remington is the ASYM 70gr. TSX Barrier/Hunting load. Out of my 18-inch Crane barrel, this load averages 2,620 fps of velocity and requires at least a 1-in-8 inches twist to stabilize.
> 
> This long-for-caliber bullet stays together and penetrates deeply. I've used this load successfully on three different whitetail deer this year and didn't recover a single bullet. I have used this same load on countless feral hogs, which are tougher targets than deer, and can't recall ever recovering a bullet on a broadside shot.


Is the .223 Remington a Viable Deer Cartridge? - North American Whitetail


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Elvis said:


> But by using a larger bullet you'll increase your chances of a clean kill and increase your chances or finding the deer.
> 
> I'll use 5.56 for 150 lb hogs but I rarely want to collect the hog. For deer which I want to eat I use at least a 6.8.


All depends on shot placement and your level of skill hunting. I've used a 222 Remington and killed numerous deer in my 45 years of hunting here in WI. Head or neck shot and a quick Bang Flop. Which IMHO is the definition of a clean kill. I don't like wasting my time and energy tracking a wounded animal. Let alone the waste of meat by shooting them elsewhere. Why make the animal suffer by wounding it and hoping it dies a little later?? See picture to the left.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Chipper said:


> All depends on shot placement and your level of skill hunting. I've used a 222 Remington and killed numerous deer in my 45 years of hunting here in WI. Head or neck shot and a quick Bang Flop. Which IMHO is the definition of a clean kill. I don't like wasting my time and energy tracking a wounded animal. Let alone the waste of meat by shooting them elsewhere. Why make the animal suffer by wounding it and hoping it dies a little later?? See picture to the left.


So many things can go wrong attempting a head or neck shot on a deer except at very close ranges.
In the fraction of a second betwee trigger squeeze and impact if the deer moves its head a few inches you could condemn that deer to a slow death. 
Ever see a deer with its jaw blown off? It ain't pretty. Head shots are not ethical in my opinion.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

If you want to try to hunt with a .223, a load like the Gold Dot would be good. 
One of these in the lungs should punch a deers ticket; and I think that it would punch a humans ticket too; or make them wish they were dead.
This is strictly my opinion, I do not have any hard facts to back it up.







https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-...ld-dot-le-55-grain-gdsp-soft-point-ammo-24446


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

460 Wthby mag.....Just in case I run into a bear. Or a wild Mack Truck....


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## WhatTheHeck (Aug 1, 2018)

RedLion said:


> While I would use a larger caliber to hunt deer, here is an article that might help.
> 
> Is the .223 Remington a Viable Deer Cartridge? - North American Whitetail


Interesting article.

I find his presumption an AR owner does shoot more to be purely subjective with no real evidence other than anecdotal. 
Does he mean the precision rifle shooter shoots less than a AR owner simply because shooting an AR is more fun? 
Could the same be said shooting my 10/22 over an AR?

Everything else in the article is, take the best broadside shot, at a range that is not excessive, but never says what excessive is.
His last few lines of,


> . . . be prepared to pass on an animal when the angle or distance isn't right.


is good advice.

Around here, that would be a lot of passes.


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