# Hardtack vs. pasta (in terms of shelf life)



## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

hi there
i just was wondering , why the hardtack has +50 years shelf life,
and dried pasta has maximum shelf life of 2 years ,although both of hardtack & dried pasta are made of wheat flour & water

thanks in advance


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Hi Eric .... I was just wondering who in the tarnation are you? Ya didn't say. :vs_karate: 

It would be proper of you if you posted an introductory "what I prep for" summary in the INTRO section.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

eric walter said:


> hi there
> i just was wondering , why the hardtack has +50 years shelf life,
> and dried pasta has maximum shelf life of 2 years ,although both of hardtack & dried pasta are made of wheat flour & water


Not really sure since I have not made either of them, but doesn't pasta sometimes have raw eggs in it?

*Rancher*


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Good question. We dont eat much boiled dough around these parts except for chicken and dumplings. Not sure of the shelf life of dried dumplings or chicken.


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## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

bigwheel said:


> Good question. We dont eat much boiled dough around these parts except for chicken and dumplings. Not sure of the shelf life of dried dumplings or chicken.


Dang it. Now I am gonna sit here craving chicken and dumplings. :tango_face_grin:


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The big difference is the hardtack is baked.

Semolina is formed into assorted pasta from wetted flour with whole egg added.

The egg, resident oils and no baking result in the shorter shelf life.

I would do the hardtack in Mylar with o2 absorbers, blocking moisture and oxygen.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Pasta shelf life... lol... why store pasta.. store flour and have a chicken you can make pasta anytime you want


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Pasta shelf life... lol... why store pasta.. store flour and have a chicken you can make pasta anytime you want


^^^ That ^^^

Pasta is a waste of storage space when it is so easy to make.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

The more you process an item, the shorter the shelf life. Adding ingredients to the items likewise shortens the shelf life.

The one item I store the most, by far, is hard wheat berries. It stores much longer than flour (been processed). I do have chickens but to be safe I also purchase the cans of dried eggs, with a long shelf life. So as others have stated, purchase & store the wheat berries (will need a grinder) and then make your pasta fresh.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Pasta will last longer than 2 years. I put up a ton for Y2K, and ate the last of it in 2006. It was fine.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> Pasta will last longer than 2 years. I put up a ton for Y2K, and ate the last of it in 2006. It was fine.


I was wondering where 2 years came from also - even for straight out retail packaging laying on a pantry shelf it's 4 years - egg noodles being the exception and for some reason some of the mac & cheese macaroni ...


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## spork (Jan 8, 2013)

The other day my brother was talking about some of his donated preps from an old trusted prepper. He said he'd been eating pasta put up in the 80's and the stuff tasted better than anything he could buy today. Take that for what you will. I'm not concerned one bit about shelf life of pasta when stored correctly. Having the stuff on hand to make pasta is also a good option as well, but I like a good mix of items that are instantly ready to eat (freeze dried, canned goods etc.), some with a little prep (spaghetti, rice, etc.) and others that take more prep (flour, wheat berries, dried beans, etc).

All that said, store both hard tack and pasta if you want (and you're willing to eat it).


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

******* said:


> The more you process an item, the shorter the shelf life. Adding ingredients to the items likewise shortens the shelf life.
> 
> The one item I store the most, by far, is hard wheat berries. It stores much longer than flour (been processed). I do have chickens but to be safe I also purchase the cans of dried eggs, with a long shelf life. So as others have stated, purchase & store the wheat berries (will need a grinder) and then make your pasta fresh.


whole wheat is the true manna from heaven - a percentage of the wheat they found in the Egyptian pyramids actually spouted after all these decades - it doesn't get much better than that ....


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

Illini Warrior said:


> even for straight out retail packaging laying on a pantry shelf it's 4 years - egg noodles being the exception and for some reason some of the mac & cheese macaroni ...


It's the plastic that used to make mac & cheese.

*Rancher*


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Egg Noodles have a shorter shelf life than other pastas. I prefer to make egg noodles fresh and would never purchase them. I am lazy and buy pasta in bulk but try and use it in my 3 year rotation for shelf stable items. I know not a normal way for most on the board to do things. 

For hard tack - have you tried it. People have eaten it and hated it for thousands of years. 

Why the either- or. Suggest you have some hardtack assuming you will use it early when you may have to eat on the go and store some pasta , not egg noodles, along with whole wheat . Very long term plan to grow your wheat and mill it yourself to make your own pasta and bake real biscuits that do not break your teeth.

As to the hard tack - now days there are so many options in individual wrapped protein / energy bars that are so much better nutritionally. Long term hard tack kept guys going but also led to scurvy without any vitamin C. Modern commercial energy/protein bars can get wet, if you crush them you can still tear open package and eat crumbs. Almost all are vitamin fortified .


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

If you are going to store spaghetti in mylar REMEMBER VERY IMPORTANT !!!!!!! Use a fine grit sand paper and round off the ends so it will not poke a hole in the mylar... after you do that post a few pictures and we will make sure you did it right.

I think slippy sells a pasta point rounder device for $19.95


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> If you are going to store spaghetti in mylar REMEMBER VERY IMPORTANT !!!!!!! Use a fine grit sand paper and round off the ends so it will not poke a hole in the mylar... after you do that post a few pictures and we will make sure you did it right.
> 
> I think slippy sells a pasta point rounder device for $19.95


That's Right Maine-Marine!

And for a limited time, GET NOT 1 BUT 2 Gen-U-Wine SlippyMade Pasta Point Rounders! BUT WAIT! THAT"S NOT ALL!! Call now and we'll throw in a Gen-U-Wine SlippyMade Pike to conveniently mount the already "Pointy Heads" of any Liberals who think they don't have to prepare and can come over to your house and eat your Custom Rounded Spaghetti Noodles!!! And you just pay Shipping and Handling!

Just Send $19.95 we'll rush you all these great SlippyMade Products!

(Terms and Conditions Apply) :vs_wave:


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> If you are going to store spaghetti in mylar REMEMBER VERY IMPORTANT !!!!!!! Use a fine grit sand paper and round off the ends so it will not poke a hole in the mylar... after you do that post a few pictures and we will make sure you did it right.
> 
> I think slippy sells a pasta point rounder device for $19.95


Not to cut into Slippy's business, or folks that have time to file spaghetti, but I get my spaghetti in the normal 1 lb packs and just make a few slits in the side of the packaging. This way the oxygen absorbers can still do their magic and the mylar is protected from those pesky points on the end of the spaghetti. The bulk boxes of spaghetti at Sam's Club have the 1 lb. bags inside.

Spaghetti is the only pasta I store, as since it is solid, I can get more lbs. in a pail than something like elbows.


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## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

thanks guys for helping me
i really appreciate all your replies :vs_closedeyes:..

in fact ,the conditions in my country (Egypt) are so bad , and i am preparing myself to face a massive starvation (or even a civil war)
i am a newbie in the preppers society and the good quality foods are not available here (this is not America :vs_no_no_no::vs_sob

also i didnt find oxygen absorbent or myler bags in the stores here

i have a bad memories with spaghetti , as i saw weevils in spaghetti package that was stored in my home for one year

i liked the idea of hardtack (its easy made , its contents are available and its shelf life is longer than my life span)
also i will take your recommendations in my consideration

i will store : white rice , wheat berries , some canned foods & dried beans:vs_smile:


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

eric walter, Just did a little research into the Egyption economy. I knew you guys had some social pressures but I had no idea how bad your economy was. Imports to exports ratio is really bad and 10% inflation along with IMF loans is scary. Sounds like you guys trade a lot with England and the weak pound's got to be hurting your exports. 

Think of things you use every day like toilet paper and matches,,,, the ability to purify water.. White rice stores well for 20 years.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

ERIC WALTER, If you intend on making hardtack, do the following.

Perforate the product before baking with a series of small (!/16") holes spaced 1/2 inch apart (12.7MM) in a grid pattern.

This is a must to make sure the core is properly cooked.

Here in the US, we have a product called Saltines, they like every other cracker has them in it for that purpose.

Most here have no clue about it and most likely never thought about the holes.

A board with nails spaced in it properly will do the job quickly, but they have to go through to work.

If you can put it up to your eye and see objects in front of you through the hole they are OK.

I made a perforating die for Natick Labs for that purpose in their military food research.

After I made it, I always noticed the holes in every cracker I ever ate afterward.

You don't try to gnaw on the thing, but break it up and add it to some broth or put it in a rice steamer until edible.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Sorry Eric if I had known you were in Egypt I would not have recommended the protein bars/ CLIFF bars. Hard tack given your situation might be best. While it would be best to make a broth as has been suggested you can if you have to eat them while moving . I would want several weeks of food that could be just eaten without cooking if I were in the middle east.

Some questions. 
Do you have access to plastic resealable / zip lock bags. 
Do you think your past problems with pest were because the pest were in the pasta when you bought it or because you had bugs that got into the pasta when it as in your cabinet. 
Do you have access to a freezer.

I think the pasta will work even if the pasta you buy has bugs. Leave the pasta in what ever box/bag it comes in , place in a plastic bag push as much air out as you can and seal it. Place in the freezer for at least a week. Lay out a clean towel spread the pasta out to let it warm up and dry from any condensate. Keep flies off of it by putting a cloth over if needed. Once dry put it back in the bag and seal it.

This will kill any insects that were in the pasta when you bought it . The plastic bags will provide some protection from insects in the cabinet. Placing the food in buckets with lids or plastic totes/ boxes with tight fitting lids will also protect against rodents and insects.

The thing about pasta is you need to be able to boil water so you have to stop, make a fire or use a stove in order to eat.

One tip with with pasta /noodles you can boil the water , add the pasta, bring the water back to a boil but you do not need to keep boiling for very long. A recipe might say 20 minute boil but if you turn the heat off after 5 and cover the pot with a lid as well as use a insulated cover you can leave them set in the pot to finish without continuing to boil. Saves fuel. Backpackers do this all the time in the US they obtain a piece of insulation that has two layers of foil with plastic bubbles in the middle. They use that and duct tape to make a cover for the pot. I have done this at a lunch break then put the pot in its cover and got back on the trail and hiked . Get to that nights stop pasta is still warm and ready to eat.

Look for video pictures on how to make it one example 




Hope this is more helpful for you . Good Luck to you.


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## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

John Galt said:


> Just did a little research into the Egyption economy .


your economic research is great, john



John Galt said:


> Think of things you use every day like toilet paper and matches


i am storing matches, toothpaste & some cleaning materials.



John Galt said:


> the ability to purify water


" water filtration"...i missed that good point , i will buy a water filter & many cartridge Replacements



John Galt said:


> White rice stores well for 20 years


by the way ..can i store white rice in a tight package (but without o2 absorbent ,which i have no access to)

thanks bro


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## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> If you intend on making hardtack, do the following.


thanks SOCOM42 for that valuable tricks about baking the hardtack



SOCOM42 said:


> Here in the US, we have a product called Saltines,


we don't have "Saltines crackers" product, but do you mean that i should add some salt to
the hardtack to enhance its flavor or increase the shelf life ?:vs_worry:



SOCOM42 said:


> I made a perforating die for Natick Labs for that purpose in their military food research.


ooooh that is great , i always liked the food supplies of US army , specially the yellow powder food packed with nano filter membranes (sorry i couldn't remember the name of that item but i have watched it on national geographic )



SOCOM42 said:


> You don't try to gnaw on the thing, but break it up and add it to some broth or put it in a rice steamer until edible.


or put it in coffee , like the veterans :vs_karate:

by the way , do you know any alternatives to o2 absorbent (they are not available in my country , also i couldn't buy it from amazon website , because my government has blocked those international money transferring due to the lack of US dollars in the central bank )


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## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

RJAMES said:


> Sorry Eric if I had known you were in Egypt I would not have recommended the protein bars


Never mind at all, bro:vs_no_no_no:



RJAMES said:


> I would want several weeks of food that could be just eaten without cooking if I were in the middle east.


That's the same ideology of me



RJAMES said:


> Do you have access to plastic resealable


Yes



RJAMES said:


> Do you think your past problems with pest were because ....


They were free from pest when i bought it ... but after storing for one year, i have seen the
weevil embryos inside the core of spaghetti rods (i think its due to the
corrupted wheat that was used in the manufacturing process)
also i left the spaghetti bag opened (that's my fault)



RJAMES said:


> Do you have access to a freezer.


Yes but the electricity providing is sometimes interrupted



RJAMES said:


> Hope this is more helpful for you .


it helped very well ,RJAMES

you have pointed me to great tips: removing the pasta weevils ,storing pasta ,
fuel supplement, Primitive stove, insulation pot & Pressure Cooker.

god bless you


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## spork (Jan 8, 2013)

If you can't use o2 absorbers for your rice, running it through the freezer like mentioned with the spaghetti will help as well. Also, can you get these? https://yaoota.com/en-eg/product/hothands-hand-warmers-40-pairs-price-from-yashry-Egypt. While they are no where as good as o2 absorbers in getting the last bit of oxygen out of a sealed container, they still would be helpful in reducing it. The key is still the mylar. Might have to get creative. Are there any online stores that we could search through to help you find what you need?

Lastly, when looking at water filters do you research and get the best you can. Even consider making one with buckets and look into what it takes to do that. If water becomes a problem, you're going to need lots of it that is clean to drink and wash up with. The bucket water filters will do a good job of keeping out the junk that then can be boiled to make clean drinkable water or use it to cook that rice or pasta.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

On the water- use homemade bucket filters to get water cleaner . Use the cleaner water to wash and cook. Then run water for drinking thru a bought filter. This helps your bought filter last a lot longer - less volume to filter, less particulate matter ' dirt' to filter out. Always start with the cleanest water you can find. Near the ocean think solar desalination. Solar stills work well for purifying water if you have sun and time to sit in one location . They can be made with plastic sheeting and a container to catch the water in . A 5x5 foot sheet of clear plastic and plastic bowls one to hold the dirty water and one to collect the water once it condenses, nasty water and sunlight.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

If I had to store rice without oxygen absorbers I'd get a 1 or 5 gallon pail with tight fitting lid and line it with a good plastic bag (mylar is best if you can get it). If I could find some desiccant packs like they ship stuff with (electronics, guns, some metal pieces ship with desiccant packs) I'd put them in my oven at 200 degrees for 30 minutes to assure they are fully dried out and toss them in the plastic lined can full of rice before sealing it as airtight as I could. No promises but it would probably store for over 10 years. If you can remove all moisture nothing can grow in it.

If you haven't already done so research the current crisis in Venezuela.

Read about surviving in Bosnia. A Survival Q & A: Living Through SHTF In the Middle of A War Zone 
This is a worst case but real life situation written by someone who lived through it. I'd strongly suggest that all members read this article if they haven't already done so.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

John Galt said:


> Read about surviving in Bosnia. A Survival Q & A: Living Through SHTF In the Middle of A War Zone
> This is a worst case but real life situation written by someone who lived through it. I'd strongly suggest that all members read this article if they haven't already don so.


I have read this before but I'm surprised you posted it. This was about people surviving in a city. You said everyone in the city would be dead.



John Galt said:


> God help people who live in a densely populated area if the food stops. * People in the cities will not survive.* And people in more rural areas get to enjoy the world as God made it every day.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

inceptor said:


> I have read this before but I'm surprised you posted it. This was about people surviving in a city. You said everyone in the city would be dead.


And at least half of those people did die. The ones who did survive were the ones in large low profile defensive groups and their life was barely worth living.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

John Galt said:


> And at least half of those people did die. The ones who did survive were the ones in large low profile defensive groups and their life was barely worth living.


Ahhh, but there is a big difference between half will die and all will die. He had no preps and had to improvise but he and others made it. NOW he preps. You stated that city people can only dream of prepping. It sounds like he is doing a pretty good job of it and still lives in the city.

I will agree that more than half will die in the city. Simply because they have no idea of how to be self reliant. Society is teaching they will be taken care of and many believe that. Others are capable of self reliance and DO prepare for it.

You also seem to have the impression that people in the country will have it made.



John Galt said:


> And people in more rural areas get to enjoy the world as God made it every day.


I got news for you. The rabble will spread out to the country and you will be affected. City rabble will think pickings are easy in the country. And do you think there are no bad guys in rural areas? Have you read "In Cold Blood"? That is a true story. They lived in the country.

There is no period in history where the cities have been taken out and country folks were unaffected. It will affect all, each area will be affected differently but no one will be untouched. Some will die and some won't. It's a fact of life for both the city and the country. I was going to quote people like James Wesley Rawles and William R. Forstchen but they write fiction. Still I think they have a pretty good idea on how it will play out and the scenario's are plausible.

The point is that you shouldn't lump everyone into one group or another. There are too many variables.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I live rural as it can be here, but a lot more dense lets say than Kansas or Nebraska or the Dakota's.

Yes there are criminal sorts out here, but proportionately less than in the cities.

I was on the PD here for 20 years, and saw my share of them, 

the outsider perps were generally, ethnic minorities black and brown more so than whites.

There will be predators, local and migrants from the cities.

Either, you will not know which, will need to be put down, permanently.

The ones from the cities tend to be more animalistic, especially the BLM types, but both are dangerous.

In this town I live in there is only two black people, a Jamaican and her son,

I personally know her and like her, son is a pre-teen minor, unrelated she works full time, not a gimme type. 

Now, the point here is, if a bunch of BLM types showed up here post SHTF,

they will not be selling Girl scout cookies, they die, that simple, they will get one warning, "LEAVE!".

I live quite a ways off the main road(secondary town road) and own the road on both sides including the road itself,

no one has any business here without my permission.

We have the firepower to execute our defensive fires, preemptively if needed.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

One tip I would give you.. canned fruit and veggies have the added bonus of containing water... especially things like peas, carrots, green beans


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## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

spork said:


> can you get these? https://yaoota.com/en-eg/product/hothands-hand-warmers-40-pairs-price-from-yashry-Egypt.
> Are there any online stores that we could search through to help you find what you need?.


really i cant find any word that can describe my feeling now.
you are searching and spend your time to help me and also the other great members here do the same.
you are really awesome guys , god bless you all.

the Hand Warmers is a creative idea from you , but as you said : the key is mayler.
fortunately, god helped me & i have found a way to buy from ebay ( my friend has taken Egyptian pounds from me , then he sent equivalent US dollars to my skrill account)...o2 absorbent & mayler bags will be no more problem :vs_OMG:



spork said:


> when looking at water filters do you research and get the best you can. .


i am planning to buy a simple filter & its replacment parts
also i will made a DIY bucket filter


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## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

RJAMES said:


> use homemade bucket filters ... Use the cleaner water to wash and cook... . .think solar desalination... .


bucket filters & solar desalination are excellent ideas i have never heard before :vs_clap:

fortunately i live in rural area & i have a water pump that brings good pure water from underground 
i will use the multi stages filter for only cook & drink
also the weather here is sunny most of the day:vs_closedeyes:


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## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

John Galt said:


> I'd get a 1 or 5 gallon pail with tight fitting lid and line it with a good plastic bag (mylar is best if you can get it).


nice trick,john . i will do it when mayler bags is out of reach/budget (actually i found a way to buy mayler from ebay:tango_face_smile



John Galt said:


> Read about surviving in Bosnia. A Survival Q & A: Living Through SHTF In the Middle of A War Zone
> .


excellent detailed article , thats what i was searching for , its a real simulation to what i may face (i hope that will not happen)


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

ERIC, 

what you can do as a replacement for the o2 absorbers is simple to use with 5 gallon sealable pails.

Fill the pail up to two inches from the top with whatever product you intend on storing including the hardtack.

Then, with a CO2 fire extinguisher, with the cone nozzle removed push the tube or an extension on it,

down to the bottom and fire it, count so many seconds like 10 then test the filling.

To test, use a butane lighter, light and hold over bucket,

saturation will be reached when flame goes out as it is lowered below the rim, if not refire till passage.

Try not to disturb the gas, close up bucket with lid.

You can make up your own O2 packets with powdered iron and salt mix.

If you can't find any powdered iron at least use the salt, it will remove any remaining moisture.

If you can make them use a coffee filter stapled into a packet, put a couple of drops of water to hasten the reaction.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Can't edit will not let me back in.

The best lighter to use for above is one of the BBQ grill lighters, causes little disturbance of the gas.


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## eric walter (Dec 30, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> ERIC,
> 
> what you can do as a replacement for the o2 absorbers is simple .....


i am very surprised with your creative ideas & knowledge base :vs_cool:

all the preparing processes became simple and not out of reach

but i have a last silly question :now we have decreased (if not eliminated) the concentration of o2 . and the gas in the sealable pail is

almost co2 , but can the co2 affect badly on the food material , or enhance growth of some micro organism , or co2 breakdown to c+o2 (hhhha sorry about that stupid chemical equation:vs_laugh: )


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

The co2 displaces o2 increasing shelf life. Bacteria - other than botulinum need o2 to live. Spoilage organism and most bacteria need oxygen to live. A few organism can live with or without . And again the bacterium I worry about when I pull a vacuum / loss of o2 is botulinum . Not a problem as your moister / water content is too low for it to live. 

Still always try and keep flies and soil off of foods to prevent introduction of harmful bacteria and spoilage organisms like yeast, molds and fungus.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Co2 and N (nitrogen) are inert gasses, will do nothing to the product.

I have used both for food preservation, started with bricks of dry ice 30 years ago.

Nothing can live in the container when there is no moisture or oxygen.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Another way to get oxygen out of a bucket is to put a piece of dry ice in the bucket and fill with rice ect. The dry ice dissolves into carbon dioxide gas which is heavier than oxygen. It will displace and air (oxygen) in the bucket. Then seal. 

I read about that method years ago.


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