# Better off with hollow points?



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I been looking at picking up some ammo -223 and I ran across some hollow points.
Would the hollow points be better in a SHTF scenario?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

The most important question is will they feed flawlessly in your rifle? They do expand more, better wound channel.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

I have no firsthand ballistic testing experience but from what I've heard, in .223/5.56, ball is plenty effective (or ineffective, depending on your POV) enough to not bother with HP's.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I keep HPs for my AR, but only for hunting. I want the animal to drop as quickly as possible.
If a marauder wanders away and dies hours later, I couldn't care less.
Feed reliability and shot placement are a higher priority than ballistics when your life depends on it.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I have not had any issues running hollow points or soft points through my ar. The biggest problem with them is that they are very expensive. Unless you load your own.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I use 5.56..... and store both green tips and hollow points in bulk......both have applications that are advantageous....... penetration or wound expansion. My advice, aim and you will disable your target. 

Stock tip of the day ..... search for good buys in ammo that will perform in your weapons because you have tried it before........ then buy bulk at low, then buy bulk at low, then buy bulk at low. When you have thousands of rounds, you may consider yourself stocked.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Depends what kind of hollow points.

Sierra Match King style bullets have a thin jacket,meant for target shooting.
Sierra Game King style have a thicker jacket designed for hunting and staying together

Barnes TSX bullets are solid brass designed for hunting

For SHTF I prefer M193 in a 20" barrel or M855 in a 16" barrel


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Shot placement will be more of a issue then an expanding 556. Shoot a game "animal" in the head or neck with a FMJ and it will be just as dead as a chest shot with hollow points. Plus destroy less meat.

I personally use FMJ only. Reason is everybody will have some type of body armor in a SHTF scenario. Whether commercial or homemade. So it would only make sense to have a round that will penetrate and be effective. However a hollow point is better than nothing. Just not MY first choice.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I don't want hijack the thread, but this is related. What about soft points?


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm pretty well stocked up om the 5.56 green tips. I was thinking of picking up some of the tula stuff in the 223.
I was thinking you never know might end up with a "223 only" gun in the future and I was going to get it in the
hollow point. Maybe I'll get half HP and half FMJ.

Anyone ever try out any of the armstrong shot gun ammo? The 00 buckshot is crazy cheap right now
like $110 with shipping for 250 rounds. That's hard to pass up even if it is the cheap stuff 

I live in a place where trading with the pepole and using ammo should be ok might even end up handing some
out to make my own place safer. 

I have a good bit of 9mm also but don't have a 9mm. But you just never know.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I don't want hijack the thread, but this is related. What about soft points?


My local range doesn't allow full jacket rifle ammo, so I have to keep softpoints for range time. Other than that, I don't stock SPs very deep.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

I've got a pile of these....










but they're not right for every situation, so there's no shortage of M855's and Hornady TAP's around here either.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

I don't think they are worth the extra cost in a rifle.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

What is your twist and the ammo grain?

I used to shoot .222 and either eye ball (55 gr), of a chuck could be hit at 200 yds, the wind not too bad. 700 DDL. Those were pointed soft points, The rem hit about one inch low and right of win.

Why do you need hollow points?

If you have a slower twist look at higher grain (65-79 gr). 

Sorry no advice on black guns, bolt or garand stuff for me.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> What is your twist and the ammo grain?
> 
> I used to shoot .222 and either eye ball (55 gr), of a chuck could be hit at 200 yds, the wind not too bad. 700 DDL. Those were pointed soft points, The rem hit about one inch low and right of win.
> 
> ...


A Slower twist, needs lighter/shorter bullets
1:12 is slow twist
1:7 is fast twist for common barrels:joyous:
I have a lead on a 556 1:14 20" pencil barrel


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> A Slower twist, needs lighter/shorter bullets
> 1:12 is slow twist
> 1:7 is fast twist for common barrels:joyous:
> I have a lead on a 556 1:14 20" pencil barrel


My bad 1-12.twist for my little remme.

Slower for big in .222, 1-8

I use huge bullets in BP guns, some > 550grs and they can shoot > 500 yds accurate.. The wind is less efficient on a little .222

The big guns have green moutain barrels and shoot real black powder.

BTW, I like the little 30s grarands, M!As, pre-64 M70s and BDLs (but don't trust a safe on a BDL)


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I just have the standard M-4 16" 1-7 I been running the 62gn 

I had a guy tell me I have a really rare AR-15 he said you don't see many bone stock.
To me it's more of tool than something to accessorize. 

I was going to pick up some 55gn just in case. You never know what the future holds.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Mad Trapper said:


> What is your twist and the ammo grain?
> 
> I used to shoot .222 and either eye ball (55 gr), of a chuck could be hit at 200 yds, the wind not too bad. 700 DDL. Those were pointed soft points, The rem hit about one inch low and right of win.
> 
> Why do you need hollow points?


I don't really know if I should get hollow points or not. That's why I asked

Usually the stupidest guy in the room is a guy afraid to ask because he thinks it might make him look stupid.
Lucky for me I have no shame about asking a stupid question.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Like Kauboy pointed out..... most indoor ranges will not allow green tips.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

A Watchman said:


> Like Kauboy pointed out..... most indoor ranges will not allow green tips.


 Why? Is that because a spark might cause un burnt powder to ignite? Think I red that or something


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## shooter (Dec 25, 2012)

Its a personal choice really. There are many advantages to HP round and SP rounds and there are many advantages to FMJ's. As for using FMJ because people might have body armor that should not be a major factor, as if the person has level 3A or less 223 hp and sp have a high chance of penetrating the body armor, if the person is in lvl 3 or higher armor neither will get though (maybe a a lucky shot will but that's about it) Could FMJ be better at getting though light barriers yes it will do better though walls and plywood, but the expansion of the round is a major benefit in damaging a vital organ or speeding up the bleeding out of a target. The military uses FMJ's because its what the Houge convention requires. (no expanding or exploding rounds) However many law enforcement groups use hollow points. The FMJ causes trauma via tumbling once it hits the target, while the HP/SP's expand. And while a tumbling bullet should create a wide wound channel the truth is many states and counties don't allow a FMJ for hunting as it tends to not kill the game animal as well as an expanding round. The FBI has done a few studies and seems to favor HP rounds. However HP rounds do cost more. And the truth is that if there is a true SHTF situation and rule of law falls apart all bullets will be deadly. As most wounds will be fatal over time as there wont be hospitals to deal with trauma wounds. And most peoples 1st ad skills are not up to par for dealing with more then the quick slow the bleeding down and get the person to a hospital level. After all thats all your IFAK does someone at some point has to go in and stitch up the organs ect.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

The backstops are not built to withstand the penetration capability for economic reasoning in up front construction costs.


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## mcangus (Jun 3, 2014)

With AKs and SKS, it seems like FMJ are always fair superior in reliability. Not sure about the ARs, but in the AK world, it is a given that you store FMJ for SHTF, simply because it feeds all the time. Not sure why a HP would feed less reliability....anyone know?


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## Billy Roper (Oct 5, 2015)

For deer hunting here, FMJ is illegal, you have to use hollow points.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

shooter said:


> Its a personal choice really. There are many advantages to HP round and SP rounds and there are many advantages to FMJ's. As for using FMJ because people might have body armor that should not be a major factor, as if the person has level 3A or less 223 hp and sp have a high chance of penetrating the body armor, if the person is in lvl 3 or higher armor neither will get though (maybe a a lucky shot will but that's about it) Could FMJ be better at getting though light barriers yes it will do better though walls and plywood, but the expansion of the round is a major benefit in damaging a vital organ or speeding up the bleeding out of a target. The military uses FMJ's because its what the Houge convention requires. (no expanding or exploding rounds) However many law enforcement groups use hollow points. The FMJ causes trauma via tumbling once it hits the target, while the HP/SP's expand. And while a tumbling bullet should create a wide wound channel the truth is many states and counties don't allow a FMJ for hunting as it tends to not kill the game animal as well as an expanding round. The FBI has done a few studies and seems to favor HP rounds. However HP rounds do cost more. And the truth is that if there is a true SHTF situation and rule of law falls apart all bullets will be deadly. As most wounds will be fatal over time as there wont be hospitals to deal with trauma wounds. And most peoples 1st ad skills are not up to par for dealing with more then the quick slow the bleeding down and get the person to a hospital level. After all thats all your IFAK does someone at some point has to go in and stitch up the organs ect.


The primary reasoning for police using hollow points it to reduce the chance of over penetration of the round.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Personally I would go with HP v.s. FMJ. With HP you can use it for a bad guy and for hunting. I wouldn't want to use FMJ for hunting as you get no expansion. If your worried about gun performance just buy a few boxes of hollow points or soft points and try them out target shooting. If you like the result then buy in bulk.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

No hollow point 223's will do little to nothing for you .


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I have personally shot animals with fmj. And goes right through and they run off only to be found by the buzzards. Core lock expanding lead or hollow point is the only way to go to kill an animal. Remember the logic of the military it was better to wound than kill. This is part of the reason for smaller cartridge and ball ammo. It is the nicest way to fight a war.

If I shoot an animal I want to kill it.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

FYI... Hornady Match BTHP are hollow point bullets that do not expand. They are great for target shooting but don't use them if you're looking for an expanding bullet. I don't know why they have a hollow point.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

mcangus said:


> With AKs and SKS, it seems like FMJ are always fair superior in reliability. Not sure about the ARs, but in the AK world, it is a given that you store FMJ for SHTF, simply because it feeds all the time. Not sure why a HP would feed less reliability....anyone know?


The different shape of the bullet and the feed ramp. It was designed for FMJ, sometimes the difference in the bullet tips are enough to making feeding less reliable. Different models have slightly different ramps and quality control could play a factor.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Billy Roper said:


> For deer hunting here, FMJ is illegal, you have to use hollow points.


 Where I don't know anyone that use hollow points for hunting. Other than in the hood.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

budgetprepp-n said:


> I been looking at picking up some ammo -223 and I ran across some hollow points.
> Would the hollow points be better in a SHTF scenario?


I'm a big fan of Hornady V-Max bullets instead of hollow points as they tend to explode on impact, unless someone is wearing body armor there isn't a better option.

So for a home defense round where someone is not wearing body armor you can stagger the V-Max with FMJ rounds for a 1-2 punch and cover all your bases, this is this .223 rounds.

For .308 defense I like 1 round of FMJ, 1 round of V-Max and, 1 round 146 grain tracer (winchester) for reference, that covers most of the bases. Stacking your rounds is the best option.

For instance if you use shotgun for home defense I like to start with a load of rubber buckshot, followed by 00 buckshot and then a slug. Any of those will disable an attacker but give me optioins as I reload and fire. The first round being less than lethal might give you some ground defending in a court case.

Of course in a shot gun the transition from less than lethal to lethal is about .4 seconds, so not much time lost there and the chances of killing someone reduced a bit... in the eyes of the law.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Reliability in functioning is paramount.
For my rifle caliber weapons, all primary ammo is FMJ to include 30AP.
I do have 308 Wini with soft point and 30/06 with core lokt for hunting if needed.
There have been two world wars that have proven the rounds that I have for my defense.
There also have been local conflicts that have proved the others.
HP for hand guns? you bet, as long as the feed right.
My full auto's, FMJ only.


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## XDs (Nov 24, 2015)

Boat tail open top in 5.56 does more than just offer better terminal effects. It gives it better external ballistics as well. It fragments at lower velocities than green tip does. 77 gr matchking is a pretty phenomenal bullet. Intermediate barrier penetration still sucks. But effects on living targets is amazing.

Now is it better for the price? That depends on how much cash you have to blow.


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## ReignMan (Nov 13, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> I use 5.56..... and store both green tips and hollow points in bulk......both have applications that are advantageous....... penetration or wound expansion. My advice, aim and you will disable your target.
> 
> Stock tip of the day ..... search for good buys in ammo that will perform in your weapons because you have tried it before........ then buy bulk at low, then buy bulk at low, then buy bulk at low. When you have thousands of rounds, you may consider yourself stocked.


Yes, this exactly. All types of ammo has its place and its application as long as your chosen weapon likes to eat it.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

i dont know why anybody would want FMJ .223 or 22-250 unless they was into some variant of target shooting and snagged them cheap. Hollow points work much better on people and other dumb animals. Ran thousands of them through my mini 14 of some real amateur reloading efforts. Never had a feeding or performance issue. One of my old gun nut bohunk pals loaded up some hot hollow points in his .222. Hit a rabbit with that it would rain guts and fur forever. Very explosive. Prob not good for people on that one..but the Federal 55 grain HPs would hang together well. Only had one exit on a deer in .22-250 and they was from a Nosler solid base that was running too slow. Little reloading experiment which was not repeated.


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## ReignMan (Nov 13, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> i dont know why anybody would want FMJ .223 or 22-250 unless they was into some variant of target shooting and snagged them cheap. Hollow points work much better on people and other dumb animals. Ran thousands of them through my mini 14 of some real amateur reloading efforts. Never had a feeding or performance issue. One of my old gun nut bohunk pals loaded up some hot hollow points in his .222. Hit a rabbit with that it would rain guts and fur forever. Very explosive. Prob not good for people on that one..but the Federal 55 grain HPs would hang together well. Only had one exit on a deer in .22-250 and they was from a Nosler solid base that was running too slow. Little reloading experiment which was not repeated.


This is good info.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

Two MUST WATCH videos when it comes to this question regarding rifle caliber and projectile selection:

Not sure what rank this guy is in the Army but he is currently enlisted from the best of my understanding and I believe he is a SFC E-7.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

where is here? Most hunters use a ballistic tip round or a soft point for medium to large game.


Billy Roper said:


> For deer hunting here, FMJ is illegal, you have to use hollow points.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

He is in Arkansas I believe, Mossinator.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

If theyre the same price then by all means get the hollowpoints. Ideally if you can get Ballistic tips even better (reliability and accuracy of a fmj, expansion of a hp). 

I stockpile hollowpoints and use fmj for practice.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sounds like a great plan. Hollow points is all I stockpile. I dont practice except once a year on the pistol to keep my packing card up to date. I have about two boxes of FMJ in .40 for the pistol but they was free. Cant see looking a gift horse in the mouth huh? Woops..do have a few boxes of solid nose .22 but that was back when they were real scarce and beggars could not afford to be choosers. lol.


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## XDs (Nov 24, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Sounds like a great plan. Hollow points is all I stockpile. I dont practice except once a year on the pistol to keep my packing card up to date. I have about two boxes of FMJ in .40 for the pistol but they was free. Cant see looking a gift horse in the mouth huh? Woops..do have a few boxes of solid nose .22 but that was back when they were real scarce and beggars could not afford to be choosers. lol.


Me? I'm a gun guy. But I don't have a lot of guns. I carried lots of firearms everything from .50 bmg to 5.56. Though now that I'm out I look to what can be used and what will be available after. I only have six firearms I'd rather put money into ammo than rifles.

Because I understand that shooting is a perishable skill. Shooting once a year will not keep you proficient.


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