# Video shows cop fatally shoot man with raised hands in Jersey No Less



## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Video shows cop fatally shoot man with raised hands | New York Post


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I saw the cop shoot after the passenger would not show his hands and ultimately come out of the car. 
The driver complied with commands, was cuffed and not injured.
I'm not sure what you are trying to show here. If the passenger had followed commands he would not have been shot.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

A few observations;

It appears to me that Officer Day (the officer who approached the passenger side of the car) tilted his handgun "gangsta style" as he ordered the suspect. 

I wonder f the officers knew that the suspect, Reid (the front seat passenger that got shot) was a convicted Cop Killer? EDIT CORRECTION: Reid was convicted of shooting at police officers not killing them.

It is evident that the people of the State of New Jersey have created such an over the top anti-gun environment that all sensibility is gone. There seems to be a sentiment in New Jersey that all firearms are evil. The Police know that most law abiding people ordinarily wouldn't drive around New Jersey with a firearm, so they make the assumptions that only criminals do. This is such a dangerous situation. Blame this on the fools in New Jersey who voted for this over the past 50 years or so. 

New Jersey is lost.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I wonder f the officers knew that the suspect, Reid (the front seat passenger that got shot) was a convicted Cop Killer?


From a different article I read, Day was present during Ried's first arrest for killing the trooper 13 years prior.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I saw the cop shoot after the passenger would not show his hands and ultimately come out of the car.
> The driver complied with commands, was cuffed and not injured.
> I'm not sure what you are trying to show here. If the passenger had followed commands he would not have been shot.


Just posting the video for discussion.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I thought the article said that Reid "shot at some troopers" didn't mention he was a cop killer. All the same he was a thug with a record of bad stuff. How hard is it to just comply with the officer? Yes the jersey laws are crazy and about as anti 2a as it gets, but all he had to do was show his hands and be still. If he would have listened he would still be on top of the dirt today. Probably behind bars but alive...


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> From a different article I read, Day was present during Ried's first arrest for killing the trooper 13 years prior.


Interesting.

I thought I heard Officer Day call Reid by his first name, Jarame, as he ordered him out of the vehicle. This would lead one to believe that there was some familiarity between the two. One might also make the assumption that Officer Reid was out looking for some vigilante justice?

Hmmmm...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I thought I heard Officer Day call Reid by his first name, Jarame, as he ordered him out of the vehicle. This would lead one to believe that there was some familiarity between the two. One might also make the assumption that Officer Reid was out looking for some vigilante justice?
> 
> Hmmmm...


Most cops know who the really bad guys are in the area they patrol.
In this case, knowing the thug could have been advantage for the cop. Remember what Sun Tsu always preached "Know your enemy".


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Note that its the NY Post article stating man shot with his hands raised. I saw no such thing.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I have very mixed emotions about this given my experience with NJ cops. This guy was no saint, but how many crimes would he have been able to commit if law abiding citizens were allowed to carry?


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Some things I have read about this one. 

1). Officers knew the deceased. 
2). Deceased previously shot at police officers though I have not read he killed one,
3). There was a firearm in the car though not near the deceased it wasn't that far either, it was in the front seat area. 
4). The deceased never raised his hand above his belt on one side. 

I never like to judge a case with media presentations. I trust, as difficult as it can be, the system to produce the facts. Like we learned in Fergoson yesterday those who get all of the facts can make informed decisions. They get all of the evidence, they get all of the time, and the cop gets an instant.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Ripon said:


> ...the cop gets an instant.


That's what it boils down to, right there.
Well put.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Whether it was a justifiable shooting or not we will never hear much about it, the cop was Black so Jesse and Al will have no interest.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Tragic out come. Common sense says that you follow the police directions or this can be the outcome. I am certain the cop only wanted to go home after his shift. NJ does not want armed citizens so storing a firearm in the glove box was begging to be arrested and viewed as armed and dangerous.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

To me, it appears that BOTH officers fired.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> Tragic out come. Common sense says that you follow the police directions or this can be the outcome. I am certain the cop only wanted to go home after his shift. NJ does not want armed citizens so storing a firearm in the glove box was begging to be arrested and viewed as armed and dangerous.


Actually it is the NJ cops who don't want armed citizens. Virtually all of our gun laws are justified as protecting police.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Diver said:


> Actually it is the NJ cops who don't want armed citizens. Virtually all of our gun laws are justified as protecting police.


I know, and this is what scares me in light of our (Pennsylvania) new governors recent announcement. We have a system that seems to work, and we don't need any "Jersey Boy" gun grabbing to start.

"Pennsylvania Gov.-elect Tom Wolf wants Maryland's top cop to become Pennsylvania's top cop, he said Thursday.

In a series of Cabinet announcements involving law enforcement and civil defense, Wolf said he has selected Marcus Brown, Maryland's state police superintendent, to take over the $145,025-a-year job as Pennsylvania's state police commissioner."

Wolf wants Maryland's top cop to head Pa. State Police | Politics - WTAE Home


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I know, and this is what scares me in light of our (Pennsylvania) new governors recent announcement. We have a system that seems to work, and we don't need any "Jersey Boy" gun grabbing to start.
> 
> "Pennsylvania Gov.-elect Tom Wolf wants Maryland's top cop to become Pennsylvania's top cop, he said Thursday.
> 
> ...


This is bad news. Time to crank out letters to the legislature to stop this stuff.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

It's hard to make much of a judgment based on this video. Given that the guy who was shot has a long criminal record and a history of shooting at cops himself, I'll give the police (and this particular officer) the benefit of the doubt on this one. 

That said, I think the reaction of the officer to simply seeing a gun was way over the top. I have multiple firearms in my vehicle at any given time (currently, I have a PS90 and 5.7 pistol). Having a gun in one's vehicle doesn't, by itself, make one a threat to law enforcement.


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## shootbrownelk (Jul 9, 2014)

HuntingHawk said:


> Note that its the NY Post article stating man shot with his hands raised. I saw no such thing.


 Well Hawk, do you want to bet that's NOT the way that Al Sharpton will see it! It'll be a re-run of the New York protests about a cop shooting a law-abiding Eagle Scout on his way to a bible reading after volunteering at the local soup kitchen. I can see a grieving widow on her way to a HUGE payday from the City. I'll bet Sharpton and Jackson are doing "Rock-Paper-Scissors" right now, to see who does the Eulogy.
The guy (from what I have read) is a thug with a long rap sheet going back to his teen-age years. I feel sorry for the cops.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I know, and this is what scares me in light of our (Pennsylvania) new governors recent announcement. We have a system that seems to work, and we don't need any "Jersey Boy" gun grabbing to start.
> 
> "Pennsylvania Gov.-elect Tom Wolf wants Maryland's top cop to become Pennsylvania's top cop, he said Thursday.
> 
> ...


And as another state loses its 2A rights you'll get the same support I get, i.e. well the folks in NJ/PA voted for this stuff so why should I worry? Move if you don't like it.

Then they'll think they are safe in TN or wherever until the whole country wakes up one day to no longer having a 2A.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> I know, and this is what scares me in light of our (Pennsylvania) new governors recent announcement. We have a system that seems to work, and we don't need any "Jersey Boy" gun grabbing to start.
> 
> "Pennsylvania Gov.-elect Tom Wolf wants Maryland's top cop to become Pennsylvania's top cop, he said Thursday.
> 
> ...


Very sad SideKahr,

The people keep voting for these evil socialists and this is what they get. Time to consider moving.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> And as another state loses its 2A rights you'll get the same support I get, i.e. well the folks in NJ/PA voted for this stuff so why should I worry? Move if you don't like it.
> 
> Then they'll think they are safe in TN or wherever until the whole country wakes up one day to no longer having a 2A.


I'll be in the ground before that happens.
Giving up the fight is for quitters.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Once the cops draw their weapons, play time is over folks. Anyone with half a brain would listen to their instructions very carefully and comply immediately. Anything else is suicide.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> Once the cops draw their weapons, play time is over folks. Anyone with half a brain would listen to their instructions very carefully and comply immediately. Anything else is suicide.


But should it be suicide? My hearing is not perfect. If I don't understand and immediately comply with some screaming expletive laced order, should that give a cop the right to gun me down while my hands are in the air?

I don't want to be siding with the thug in this case, but I am certainly under the impression that cops in general are killing people with inadequate cause.


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## turbo6 (Jun 27, 2014)

It's hard to tell from the video.

The guy should have put his hands up. Driver did and he lived to see tomorrow. 

Instead it seems like the passenger may have fidgeted around and then got out of the vehicle when instructed to stay still.

Tough judgement call, but there was a gun in the car and in no way was he told to step out of the car. Given his prior history, the officer took no chances.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> Once the cops draw their weapons, play time is over folks. Anyone with half a brain would listen to their instructions very carefully and comply immediately. Anything else is suicide.


and ten years from now when they come calling to confiscate your fire arms?


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Here is an oldie but a goodie. It looks like the man is complying and putting the rifle down but he is pulling a gun out of his back pocket hidden from the officer in the front. Officer in back sees this and yells "GUN" and they pop him.

Some think this is a staged video - and it may well be. But it does illustrate how even video accounts need to be scrutinized for all of the little details and nuances. Bear in mind that a cop is amped on adrenalin and making life altering decisions in the blink of an eye with limited information. The fact that they get this right, far more often than not is purely astounding and a credit to their training and dedication.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

alterego said:


> and ten years from now when they come calling to confiscate your fire arms?


If it comes to that, they will be leaving with my guns.

My choices at that point are to live through it or die trying to stop them.

If SWAT is stacking on your front porch, it's a little late to start fighting for your rights. The problem with the "from my cold dead hands" philosophy is that they don't have a problem with the idea. Maybe you will fight your way out, head for the hills, and carry on a one man war against an army armed with drones and tanks and night vision and full body armor. Maybe you will continue to fight until you kill them all. Here in reality land, that's not a viable option.

I'll keep fighting to make sure we never get to that point.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Diver said:


> But should it be suicide? My hearing is not perfect. If I don't understand and immediately comply with some screaming expletive laced order, should that give a cop the right to gun me down while my hands are in the air?


No, it shouldn't be suicide. No, they shouldn't have the right to gun you down.

I didn't see his hands in the air. Truth be told, if the cops believed they were in the wrong here, I believe the dash cam tape would have been destroyed. They would have claimed the cam wasn't working. I wasn't there, so hard to say exactly what happened.

I have said several times that we should disarm the most dangerous element in America... the police.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Very sad SideKahr,
> 
> The people keep voting for these evil socialists and this is what they get. Time to consider moving.


marcus brown is not going to mess with PA's 2A. if anything he will target PA troopers corrupt ways. even the new gov wont be able to do anything about 2A in PA. maybe in philly but not anywhere else. PA is a 2A state.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> I have said several times that we should disarm the most dangerous element in America... the police.


I'm sure there are countries where cops didn't carry firearms.... I'm sure the people didn't have them too.. after all if the police didn't have guns, why would the civilians need them right. if you disarm cops, you can kiss your 2A rights goodbye. :arrow:


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

All of my guns and ammo were lost in a tragic boating accident, so it's a moot point.

But I'm only semi-serious about disarming the police anyway. I do believe that many cops are out of control, but I don't think they should be totally disarmed.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Charles Martel said:


> It's hard to make much of a judgment based on this video. Given that the guy who was shot has a long criminal record and a history of shooting at cops himself, I'll give the police (and this particular officer) the benefit of the doubt on this one.
> 
> That said, I think the reaction of the officer to simply seeing a gun was way over the top. I have multiple firearms in my vehicle at any given time (currently, I have a PS90 and 5.7 pistol). Having a gun in one's vehicle doesn't, by itself, make one a threat to law enforcement.


true having a gun, even in your car, does not make you a criminal, or a threat to law enforcement or civilians. unfortunately that video is in new jersey where cops are trained to consider EVERYONE, even cops from other jurisdictions to be criminals if they are carrying a firearm. only the feds and new jersey cops are allowed to be armed in new jersey, no exceptions. this is the reason why cops from other states hate them. before LEOSA, if you are a cop and you got pulled over in new jersey and if the local cop there see you with a badge, they will automatically ask you if you are armed. cops don't usually lie to another cop, but when you tell them you are armed, get ready for some time in a new jersey slammer. and if your gun is loaded with hollow points, those new jersey clowns would act like they just saved america from a notorious criminal. I'm sure there are good jersey cops, I just haven't met one yet.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> No, it shouldn't be suicide. No, they shouldn't have the right to gun you down.
> 
> I didn't see his hands in the air. Truth be told, if the cops believed they were in the wrong here, I believe the dash cam tape would have been destroyed. They would have claimed the cam wasn't working. I wasn't there, so hard to say exactly what happened.
> 
> I have said several times that we should disarm the most dangerous element in America... the police.


Most dangerous element? Funny you should bring that up. Given the inadequate recordkeeping of police homicides it is difficult to tell, but by my estimate about 10% of all homicides are conducted by the police. I'm waiting for the Bloomberg group to figure this out and give us their numbers.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> Most dangerous element? Funny you should bring that up. Given the inadequate recordkeeping of police homicides it is difficult to tell, but by my estimate about 10% of all homicides are conducted by the police. I'm waiting for the Bloomberg group to figure this out and give us their numbers.


bloomberg group? is this group funded by mike bloomberg of nyc? I'm sure their record keeping will be top notch, specially if it has a hidden agenda against 2A.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> by my estimate about 10% of all homicides are conducted by the police.


can you share with us how you came up with your estimate of 10% of homicides are conducted by the cops....


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

mhans827 said:


> can you share with us how you came up with your estimate of 10% of homicides are conducted by the cops....


Thank you!!! I was just about to ask that! =)
Please do tell us your source.


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

Perp didn't listen. Got what he deserved. End of story. (For once, its a Black man shooting a Black man.....wow....usually we only see "White cop" shoots a "Black man", yeah because race has everything to do with it) I'm so sick of all the race BS, who cares. This is 2015, all races are equal IMO.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

jbrooks19 said:


> Perp didn't listen. Got what he deserved. End of story. (For once, its a Black man shooting a Black man.....wow....usually we only see "White cop" shoots a "Black man", yeah because race has everything to do with it) I'm so sick of all the race BS, who cares. This is 2015, all races are equal IMO.


Jbrooks, my young friend. I agree with the first part of your post. Your last sentence needs some clarification;

Sadly there are many evil socialists who believe all races and all people are NOT equal. They believe that some races and some people are too stupid to take care of themselves. So the evil socialists try and give them free stuff to make them more equal.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Mish said:


> Thank you!!! I was just about to ask that! =)
> Please do tell us your source.


The numbers on police homicides are incomplete with 461 confirmed from 750 out of 17000 police departments. Estimates I have seen range from 1000 to 1700 per year. Meanwhile gun deaths by homicide, not suicide or accidents run around 10000 to 11000 per year.

If anybody has better numbers, please provide.

I consider the fact that these numbers are not carefully tracked a clear indication that the law enforcement community does not care how many civilians they kill.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Diver said:


> The numbers on police homicides are incomplete with 461 confirmed from 750 out of 17000 police departments. Estimates I have seen range from 1000 to 1700 per year. Meanwhile gun deaths by homicide, not suicide or accidents run around 10000 to 11000 per year.
> 
> If anybody has better numbers, please provide.
> 
> I consider the fact that these numbers are not carefully tracked a clear indication that the law enforcement community does not care how many civilians they kill.


Where's my link to these numbers? 
Damn!!! You mean I'm going to have to look shat up?! Blah!! hehe


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> The numbers on police homicides are incomplete with 461 confirmed from 750 out of 17000 police departments. Estimates I have seen range from 1000 to 1700 per year. Meanwhile gun deaths by homicide, not suicide or accidents run around 10000 to 11000 per year.
> 
> If anybody has better numbers, please provide.
> 
> I consider the fact that these numbers are not carefully tracked a clear indication that the law enforcement community does not care how many civilians they kill.


you might want to clarify also if the homicides by cop were ruled murder. as you know, everyone does not know that a homicide ruling of the ME's office does not mean it was unjust or unlawful. to be honest with you, you're so bias against the police that you make it sound like homicide in the hands of a cop is always wrong. so please give us the full count of how many homicides, then list out how many are justified and how many are ruled murder. since you love to bash the police so much, you should have the stats and I hope it is from a credible source.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver knows that the numbers are not available from any source, credible or not.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I have to agree with mhans827. People are shot and killed all the time by law enforcement. The question is, out of all those shootings, how many were justified? I would be willing to guess that most were necessary to protect the life of the cop or citizens in danger. Just my opinion.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> I have to agree with mhans827. People are shot and killed all the time by law enforcement. The question is, out of all those shootings, how many were justified? I would be willing to guess that most were necessary to protect the life of the cop or citizens in danger. Just my opinion.


I would agree that some are justified and some are not. If we had a few cases per year where the shooting was ruled "not justified" and the officer held accountable, even if all that meant was removing him from his role as a cop, it might be possible to conclude that law enforcement was trying to do the right thing. Absent even a few cases of police being held accountable and that lack of recordkeeping, one is forced to conclude cops have a license to kill.

That is unacceptable in a free society.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> I would agree that some are justified and some are not. If we had a few cases per year where the shooting was ruled "not justified" and the officer held accountable, even if all that meant was removing him from his role as a cop, it might be possible to conclude that law enforcement was trying to do the right thing. Absent even a few cases of police being held accountable and that lack of recordkeeping, one is forced to conclude cops have a license to kill.
> 
> That is unacceptable in a free society.


with you, it is clear that it is not the "lack of record keeping" is the problem. what forces you to conclude cops have license to kill is simply your hatred towards cops. you don't like them and that is it. you sound exactly like Al sharpton... do you do anything else other than whining and crying? just about every post from you regarding cops, all you do is cry about it. please for the love of God do something, sue the police, go protest,you can even go looting... just please do something and stop whining.:76:


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Jbrooks, my young friend. I agree with the first part of your post. Your last sentence needs some clarification;
> 
> Sadly there are many evil socialists who believe all races and all people are NOT equal. They believe that some races and some people are too stupid to take care of themselves. So the evil socialists try and give them free stuff to make them more equal.


To me, all races are equal. People choose to live the way they do. If anyone works hard enough they can make their lives better. Work ethic, or, lack thereof, is IMO one of the biggest issues with our society today. Or, people get the attitude of entitlement because they are used to getting everything handed to them, so why work for it. People are lazy, thus that is what separates us, not race. Again, this is just my opinion.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

jbrooks19 said:


> To me, all races are equal. People choose to live the way they do. If anyone works hard enough they can make their lives better. Work ethic, or, lack of thereof, is IMO one of the biggest issues with our society today. Or, people get the attitude of entitlement because they are used to getting everything handed to them, so why work for it. People are lazy, thus that is what separates us, not race. Again, this is just my opinion.


You are right my buddy,

Probably the best way to describe this, (and I've written about it before) is the fact that it is really CULTURE not race that is the issue.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

lifes cheap on both sides of the law. i didnt like seein the 2 nyc cops murdered. i dont like cops doin murder either. but the only difference i see, is the cop almost always walk, the new orleans cops who did murder during katrina walked, this guy will too. dont like it. but thats the way america works. look at waco and ruby ridge, any cop do time?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Diver knows that the numbers are not available from any source, credible or not.


That is correct. We can only estimate. That is why I said "by my estimate" when I first mentioned numbers. Total gun related homicides are collected by the FBI. They've been declining steadily for decades and are a bit over 10,000. Total homicides by cops is at least 461 in the most recent year for which numbers are available, but that is only 750 departments and does not include entire states like NY, so the number has to be higher. Given those numbers the rate is at least 4% and how much higher depends on the estimate you use for the number of police homicides. My guess is 10%, but if you want to argue 7% or 17% I'm not going to argue the point. Any way you slice it homicides by police make up a significant percentage of overall gun homicides and these numbers are never backed out by the Everytown group, or any other gun control group, so they count as "gun violence" in the press. That's how you get stuff like the Boston Marathon bomber counted as a victim of "gun violence".

Now if we had say, 10 police homicides a year ruled as "not justified" and the cop at least fired, then I might trust law enforcement a bit more.

There is a federal law that requires DOJ to collect the statistics, but they haven't done it in the two decades the law has been on the books, so I'm not holding my breath. Bottom line is DOJ is breaking the law by not collecting the stats and there are some number of unaccountable unjustified killings by police.

This case may not be one of them, but I'd have an easier time believing the cops were justified in this case if there were some cases where cops were held to account.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

oldmurph58 said:


> lifes cheap on both sides of the law. i didnt like seein the 2 nyc cops murdered. i dont like cops doin murder either. but the only difference i see, is the cop almost always walk, the new orleans cops who did murder during katrina walked, this guy will too. dont like it. but thats the way america works. look at waco and ruby ridge, any cop do time?


when a cop murders a person, he will be charged with murder. he will then have his day in court where he will either be found guilty or not guilty. if he is found not guilty by the jury, he walks. when a cop is involved in a homicide or injuring a person, his/her case will be brought to the grand jury. if the grand jury believes that the cop acted illegaly, he is indicted. if not, there will be no charges. regardless if he is brought to court or grand jury, his case is not swept under the rug like most believe. it doesn't work that way. Also we need to know the difference between homicide and murder.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

and if you like your plan you can keep your plan.


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