# whats going on in ukraine and why are we getting involved?



## miho (Jun 10, 2012)

Trying to understand what's going on and why the President making threat that he know we can't afford to keep.Putin is not scared of Obama at all so why bother getting involved? If I was President everybody would think twice before messing with USA lol


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Check this thread out; we've been kicking the can around...

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/...7605-moron-runs-his-mouth-against-russia.html


----------



## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

miho said:


> Trying to understand what's going on and why the President making threat that he know we can't afford to keep.Putin is not scared of Obama at all so why bother getting involved? If I was President everybody would think twice before messing with USA lol


Western Europe is N.A.T.O.,the US is the backbone of that.Germany had us hand them The Balkans not long ago.Learn from history.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Many in Ukraine felt they were getting screwed by a pro Russia president among other issues they ran him off. Russia did not like their puppet being removed so.
Russia is moving in and we are not involved really. Obama pointed his finger got out the pen and phone He called the UN they hung up. He wrote a note to Kerry he just repeated it. 
Putin also pointed a different finger at Obama . 
If you have not figure this out yet Obama lives in a world all his own. And appoint idiots to advise him.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Google the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. In it the U.S. and U.K. promised to come to the aid of the Ukraine if they are invaded by Russia, and also the Ukraine could rearm their nuclear arsenal.


----------



## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Union.
The Ukraine is very important due to the seaports on the Black Sea.
We have been sending money (surprise) to Ukraine for some years.
We want them in the EU, Putin does not.
Putin is not afraid of Obama and the US.
We need to be very careful here.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

tango said:


> Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Union.
> The Ukraine is very important due to the seaports on the Black Sea.
> We have been sending money (surprise) to Ukraine for some years.


Putin has been talking about rebuilding the Soviet Union for a while now. If anyone can do it, he can.



tango said:


> We want them in the EU, Putin does not.
> Putin is not afraid of Obama and the US.
> We need to be very careful here.


I really believe Putin is hoping for a confrontation with the US. Obama's track record with our military is no secret. AND just like when Obama gave the Taliban our departure date and time, he just announced to the world he is gutting our military. That will be a big deterrent.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You must remember Putin was scared of Bush he said as much and Russia was never going to mess with Regan . Regan tied them up in so many knots it was years before they could see any light at the end of the tunnel.
They found their weak link Obama and now it is on The EU will never act without us paying the bill and leading the way. Obama has put us in a position we can do nothing. Putin does not even have to work with Obama on this.


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

And if we don't our word to any ally is ... We can protect you against anyone....but Russia, China, and....?

And if we do we risk global thermal nuclear war. Not a good option.



Notsoyoung said:


> Google the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. In it the U.S. and U.K. promised to come to the aid of the Ukraine if they are invaded by Russia, and also the Ukraine could rearm their nuclear arsenal.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Ripon said:


> And if we don't our word to any ally is ... We can protect you against anyone....but Russia, China, and....?
> 
> And if we do we risk global thermal nuclear war. Not a good option.


Our allies already know the score. This ain't rocket science. Ever since the king apologized for America, we have been on the down hlll run, picking up speed. Take a look at foreign news reports. There is almost nothing said that is nice about this country. Ridicule seems to be the name of the game now. Putin is just next up to bat.

ETA: Oh yeah, don't forget the king just replaced the generals in charge of SAC and the nukes among others.


----------



## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

in a word not the USAs problem

it reinforces the "world police" attitude that people in the world see the USA as... watch the UN on this one tho, the puppets are surprisingly quiet... (they maybe becoming puppet masters??)


----------



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

miho said:


> Trying to understand what's going on and why the President making threat that he know we can't afford to keep.Putin is not scared of Obama at all so why bother getting involved? If I was President everybody would think twice before messing with USA lol


There is a lot of false spin in the western press and also a little on RT.

Here is the lowdown.

There were some protests over a free trade deal with Europe being vetoed by the president of ukraine. Those protests became violent due to a police crackdown. Then protests against the president happened. These gained in strength with protestors becoming violent. This led to street battles between anti president forces and the police. About 1500 firearms and 100000 rounds of ammo were stolen from the military by the anti presidential forces. The protests were agitated. About 80 anti presidential rioters and 30 police officers were killed and thousands injured over 500 police were seriously injured.

The head of the military refused to intervene even though ukrainian national security the sbu outlined a plan to break up the riots with force.
The Us had funded the rioters with some 5 billion dollars.

The ukrainian parliment voted down the sbu plan to break up the riots.

polish and other european diplomats brokered a deal to hold early elections in around 6 months and a truce was agreed to.

the rioters didn't keep to the truce and continued their attacks.

apparently the european diplomats may or may not have held to their end of the deal.

Then about a week ago the rioters started to surround the parliament building, rada and set the presidents political party office on fire with molotov cocktails, and one person was killed in there.

snipers who have not been identified killed both police and the rioters.

The president fled the capital as the security situation broke down.

opposition parties with about 50 elected members - impeached the president - although other members of parliament had no safe access and were even attacked by the rioters. an armed group called euro maidan associated with neonasis and chechen islamists secured the rada for the oppoisition parties.

The president after a tour of sometype ended up in moscow. Meanwhile in crimea a southern region of ukraine which was part of russia in the 1960's but given to ukraine as a gift, (trojan horse?) --- started to create militas and were reinforced by other pro russian groups. The area is a majority russian ethnic area. Unidentified militants secured various areas of the peninsula. The head of the ukrainian navy pledged allegience to the crimean paliament. Meanwhile in the east and south which were prorussian and in support of the yanukivych government had rioters take over local administrative buildings not unlike in keiv and got rid of the forces that rioters sent there to secure those bulidings.

Now russian forces are reinforcing the crimea, and there is a slight fog of war regarding the totality of actual russian actions which are under the banner of protecting russians in ukraine as well as asset there, a leader installed by the crimean parliament asked the russians for help.

None the less the rioters which are seen as pro western, and nationalists bankrolled by the west have said they are having a presidential election on the 25th of may, likewise crimean authorities have set a referendum on independence for the 25th of may.

Now 20 years ago ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons inherited from the ussr on condition that it would not have its security violated. The problem herein is that it was technically a coupe that removed the president, that is a distruption in the normal operations. Effectively political forces took the oppourtunity in loss of the security for the president to remove him.

now the real issue is that most of ukraines military is in the east of the country which is where all the prorussian support is for a large part.

meanwhile in kiev, there is a unknown going on. while the west generally identifies itself as ukrainian.

The prowestern authorities installed by the armed rioters have asked the us britain and nato for military support. Meanwhile russia is trying to protect its interests and security.

The whole thing is poltical as effectively it is rule of force in ukraine right now not rule of law.

bear in mind the war over the last 10-15 years has been one implemented in the mid to late 1980's 
bear in mind also that nato was designed to destroy the soviet union...

ok now why would the us finance 5 billion worth of "democatic change" and just write off the losses an alienate their hard won ukrainian allies? will those who fought on the streets for a proeuropean government like it if europe i.e. nato just ignores the russian ivasion.

Russia who has been an ally to some regard supported bashar al-assad whose father was installed by the soviets. Russia stood by as Libya was toppled, also given gaurentees of security by the us if it gave up its chemical weapons.

none the less, iraq was also russian leaning and of course there is iran.

more or less russia always feels close bonds with its neighbours.

without ukraine the russian bread basket and ties to the caucuses are severed.

of course the riot installed government was also antirussian.

and the soviet era relics were looted and burned, statutes of soviet heros were toppled.

of course it isn't we are all ukrainian and pro-us proeuropean.. the other side is the russian speaking population which is many. the fact the installed government make ukranian the only language as opposed to russsian and ukranian.

there were beatings and murders of proyanukavych supporters.
robberies and potentially even rapes.

If russia had not acted it would have led to the oppression of the east and south of ukraine, and likewise it would have suppressed the party of regions, putins own political party which the ukranian president was a member of.

None the less, this was not a democratically elected government the west is backing nato is supporting regime change... it is slicing off the russians influence, neutering them as part of a greater geopolitical strategy that saw their old allies libya and syria be attacked. Now it is russia that is acting.... rather than isolation of iran.

Nato was putting russia in a much weaker position. this is like if russia funded 5 billion to canadian rioters and they overthrew the canadian government and installed their own government. the canadians thrown out of government by force fled to the us and asked for the us's protection, etc...

Now effectively Nato can't do anything to stop russia if it does it is WWIII. and the end of the UN as we know it.

Its plan is to add it to the bad guys list again.

basically there is a deadline of may 25th to see what happens.

It seems for now the ukraine will be broken up much like yugoslavia as a result. This will ultimately lead to more political stability... bear in mind ukraine is on the brink of default and can't pay its military anyway.

and of course it supplies gas to europe....thankfully for europe winter is almost over.. if this happened 5 month ago it might be a different story... it seems 2015's winter will be a very cold one if nato sanctions russia.

---

Either NATO does the deed or Russia will try to protect its interests which were effected by the coupe which is not fully resolved yet.noted by the defections in crimea of the head of border security and the navy among other officials.

Ukraine ran out of money officially and only has some foreign reserves. China may be asking for loans it gave ukraine back also. Russia has cancled 12 billion in loans. meanwhile the EU isn't paying out either is the us,they are only willing to pay for violence it seems not the bills.

And of course what the actual goals are are vague, but the g8 has turned to the g7 overnight this brings russia back 20+years. Things are deteriating quickly, however it may be a plan, it may not.

None the less this was not a bloodless coupe people were shot and injured, killed and raped.
This isn't russia invaded ukraine for no reason.

Russia has been a strategic partner of ukraine for decades. Its based in crimea was leased until 2040 now with an anti russian regime in kiev that is in jepordy, russia is in jepordy including plans to customs unions which have been around since the creation of the CIS.

ukraine was in Russia sphere of influence, but now there is a struggle between russia and europe.

and more so ukraine is bankrupt. .....

bear in mind however that democracy is a problematic word in most of the world, it is often some sort of fabrication of the institution and elites regardless of what they make it look like.

The us has positioned itself not to get involved. and is going to economically sanction.

britain the other party of the budipest memorandum isn't so kurt. this seems to be then Europe vs. Russia.

If the EU doesn't oppose Russia chances are ukraine will break up. which eu isn't necisarily against, as it makes controlling it easier and offers less competition.

If capitalism does not gain new capital it fails. you have to get it from somewhere.

This whole thing is on thin ice until the 25th of May, and the prowestern government has said russia has invaded it and they are at war with their 150000 strong military on standby and the call to 1 or 2 million reservists to go in for callup ---.

Meanwhile Russia is also moving 150000 of its own forces with reports of 250000 involved


----------



## Silverback (Jan 20, 2014)

Dam will... nice.


----------



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Silverback said:


> Dam will... nice.


this is suprising ... more than half a million ukrainians have already fled the ukraine.. for Russia
http://rt.com/news/ukrainians-leave-russia-border-452/

that is like 1/80th of the population of ukraine...

Not reported on one western station...



> An estimated 675,000 Ukrainians left for Russia in January and February, fearing the "revolutionary chaos" brewing in Ukraine, Russia's Federal Border Guard Service said. Officials fear a growing humanitarian crisis.
> 
> On Sunday, the border guard service said Russian authorities have identified definite signs that a "humanitarian catastrophe" is brewing in Ukraine.
> 
> "In just the past two months (January-February) of this year&#8230;675,000 Ukrainian citizens have entered Russian territory," Itar-Tass news agency cited the service as saying.





> On Saturday, Russian migration authorities reported that 143,000 requests for asylum had been sent to Russia within a two-week period.


you can contrast that with the US's annual requests for asylum



> sylees from the top three countries of origin for asylum seekers-China, Venezuela, and Ethiopia-made up 43 percent (or 10,784) of all asylees in 2011. More specifically, 8,601 persons from China received asylum in 2011, accounting for 34 percent of all individuals who received asylum that year. The next four largest origin groups were from Venezuela (1,107), Ethiopia (1,076), Egypt (1,028), and Haiti (878), accounting for another 16 percent. Together, nationals of these five countries made up more than half of all individuals who received asylum status in 2011.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Does the name "Neville Chamberlain" ring a bell?


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Remember the comments made by obamidiot to Medvedev back in 2012. Headline of Reuters news article below;

Obama tells Russia's Medvedev more flexibility after election

SEOUL Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:06pm EDT

U.S. President Barack Obama shakes hands with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in a bilateral meeting before they both attend the 2012 Nuclear Security Summit later today in Seoul, South Korea, March 26, 2012.

Credit: Reuters/Larry Downing


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Why get involved, maybe because of nobamacare, Bengazi, Fast & Furious, IRS. All those things are now taken a back seat in the media. Will the US go to war over this, not hardly, but we will spend more money we have to borrow from someone to pay for our stupid meddling in other peoples business. Let see, nobama, how can you help put the USA further in debt and hurt the American people ?????


----------



## Titan6 (May 19, 2013)

We have no Business to tell anyone what do in Europe...Russia is securing their bases and their ports nothing more we would do and did the same in Cuba


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Titan6 said:


> We have no Business to tell anyone what do in Europe...Russia is securing their bases and their ports nothing more we would do and did the same in Cuba


But how did the US get a military base in Cuba. Cuba was never an actual part of the US that I know of, were as the Ukraine was part of Russia.


----------



## Titan6 (May 19, 2013)

ekim said:


> But how did the US get a military base in Cuba. Cuba was never an actual part of the US that I know of, were as the Ukraine was part of Russia.


Also don't forget Russia Paid for the ports with half their fleet stationed there and big bucks to keeps the bases there....We ran Cuba til our puppet was dialoged by Castro.. in which then we should of went and took then would have saved allot of Cubans allot of heartache...Cuba is a good History Lesson on how Communism works and how long it takes a country to spend everyone else s money then go broke...


----------



## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Obama should keep his mouth shut and watch,this is getting scarier by the hour to me.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Titan6 said:


> Also don't forget Russia Paid for the ports with half their fleet stationed there and big bucks to keeps the bases there....We ran Cuba til our puppet was dialoged by Castro.. in which then we should of went and took then would have saved allot of Cubans allot of heartache...Cuba is a good History Lesson on how Communism works and how long it takes a country to spend everyone else s money then go broke...


We ran Cuba, sounds a lot like Russia ran the Ukraine. Cuba went with Russia and we stopped that right. I fail to see any logic for the US to even open it's mouth about a foreign country. We couldn't even stop Communism 90 miles from our shores but we want to get involved in a country thousands of miles away. Ok, now I understand??????? That also explains why we have a "US MILITARY" base in Cuba that is pro Communism.


----------

