# Family vs population of people



## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

I've had this theory for a while, but never shared it publicly. I hope it doesn't get me kicked off the site. 

In our society we have been raised to feel "blood is thicker than water" and "Family First". I may be the only person to have lived through some of these next details, but I doubt it. 

Have you ever worked at a place where the son/nephew/grandson of the owner got a management job even though that person was a total dip shit? Have anyone been forced out, because money got tight and your last name wasn't the same on the building outside so your salary got cut more than others? Have you not gotten the job because your resume intimidated the person hiring you (meaning that person didn't have as much experience as you did and they were afraid you'd make them look bad)

I've had all of these happen to me in the last 9 years, some more than once. How do we merger from a society where family comes before quality, or integrity or morality? How do we become a society that takes care of each other, just because your another human being, doesn't matter what side of the tracks you came from or what your last name is. 

But along that same line, how do we create a society where everybody pulls their own weight, has integrity, ambition, drive and morals? 
I can't even imagine what our country looks like in another 50 years if things don't change. 

Does anyone else feel the same on any of these areas?


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Sorry to inform you but nepotism has been going on for centuries. And most likely will continue to do so.

I have been victim to nepotism and the other things you talk about. Currently I have a boss (well, bosses because I work in government) that is a total dipwad. Thing is I kind of prefer it that way. How I handle him is by making him think my ideas were his ideas. He's happy to go along with them if he thinks he came up with it. I find that's the best way to handle morons like that.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Blood is always going to be the strongest bond over friendship or given word. Has always been that way and it will never change. Nothing you can do about it so adapt. At least your well aware of the situation. Live is to short to even worry about it.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

BookWorm said:


> Does anyone else feel the same on any of these areas?


No.

Blood has never been thicker than water. Most folks who were adopted know that, and marvel when folks who aren't adopted chatter about it, because they apparently don't realize just how thin, brittle and cheap a blood bond can be.

You might have a strong family, but it comes from the capital "F": Family. It has to do with the character of its members. It has nothing to do with blood or who came out of whom.

A real Family can take in an outsider and make him or her part of the Family. A fine Family can do it instantly, by declaration.

If that's not your Family, your Family thinks in terms of us and them or values blood over anything, well, good luck.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

interesting enough the History channel just started a new reality program - Blood Money - that kind of addresses this subject >>>> are family members working in the family business worthy of inheriting the business?

_*"America is at a crossroads. This country was built on the backs of industrious men and women who started their own businesses. And while family businesses have moved wealth and the value of hard work from one generation to the next, many fear that millennials of today don't have the kind of work ethic that will take their family business through this century."*_

https://www.history.com/shows/blood-money


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I tend to think that strong societies are formed by strong families. The reason our society is in such bad shape now is due to the breakdown of family life.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

Annie said:


> I tend to think that strong societies are formed by strong families. The reason our society is in such bad shape now is due to the breakdown of family life.


I agree with your point @Annie that our society has had a break down in family values.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

BookWorm said:


> I agree with your point @Annie that our society has had a break down in family values.


Hi again, BookWorm. You wrote:



> But along that same line, how do we create a society where everybody pulls their own weight, has integrity, ambition, drive and morals?


I think your question is interesting...You know, I'm really not sure that what you're looking for can happen without a return to religion. Sometimes I hear people talking about all the trouble and wars religion has caused, but really atheistic Communism and Fascism have caused countless more death and wars than religion ever has.

But anyway, I think for society to be restored we need a return to religion. Because if there's no god, then the greater good becomes what's best for you and yours, but if there is a God, then there's a total paradigm shift, and the greater good becomes whatever is best in God's eyes. Christianity is unique in that respect because Our Lord taught that everyone is our neighbor, and that was completely unheard of and new world view at that time, and I think it gets to the heart of what you're talking about in as much as it demands we possess the sort of morals you're talking about.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

The concept that there can be no greater good without a christian god is sad.

It implies that if you didn't believe in your god, you wouldn't be moral.

And no, no atheist has ever organized a standing army and then led a crusade with it to stamp out religion.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> The concept that there can be no greater good without a christian god is sad.
> 
> It implies that if you didn't believe in your god, you wouldn't be moral.
> 
> And no, no atheist has ever organized a standing army and then led a crusade with it to stamp out religion.


Not sad, but you'll learn different one day.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

@BookWorm, as @Sasquatch said, it's been this way forever. It's either kinfolk, good friends or boot-lickers. The quiet worker who carries the load is the one who will see the door.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> The concept that there can be no greater good without a christian god is sad.
> 
> It implies that if you didn't believe in your god, you wouldn't be moral.
> 
> And no, no atheist has ever organized a standing army and then led a crusade with it to stamp out religion.


 As a whole with out God mankind really sucks.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Denton said:


> Not sad, but you'll learn different one day.


You are wasting your breath and good band width there Denton.

The dipstick you were counseling has his head so far up his rear end, . . . he will never see the light. But as you said, . . . his day is coming, . . . and it will be a sad day for his eternity, . . . without some serious changes.

I'm surprised he doesn't have a "I love Bernie" sticker for his avatar.

But back to the original question, . . . yeah, Book Worm, . . . nepotism is alive and well, . . . I believe it was Maxine Waters who paid her daughter $750,000 to be the head of her "mailing" department, . . . and that is just one example, . . . it has always been that blood is thicker than water, . . . and while at times I don't like it any more than you do, . . . it has been an enhancing trait that seriously helped out for many of the inventions and creations we enjoy today.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Jammer Six said:


> The concept that there can be no greater good without a christian god is sad.
> 
> It implies that if you didn't believe in your god, you wouldn't be moral.
> 
> And no, no atheist has ever organized a standing army and then led a crusade with it to stamp out religion.


Sad you think this way. I think you need to studyexperience real history and religion. Your entitled to your opinion but your way off base. Man or government being the ultimate power always results in corruption, death and evil.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

As a Christian, I'm supposed to love and care for everybody. *sigh*

On my side there's just my brother and his wife. He's a professor, I sent him a knife once, I doubt he knows where it is, but I'd take him and his wife in.

Now, on my wife's side there's nothing but hooligans and users. Five nieces, every holiday one or the other was pregnant. One did hard time for being a drug mule. One is in and out of facilities for the "chronically confused," if you catch my drift. Oh, I have anxiety issues and PTSD, but I never took an axe to my parents' front door.

In the event of TEOTWAWKI, my wife would fight with me over "family." And by that time, there would be even more illegitimate children. Tough call for me...:vs_mad:


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

Annie said:


> Hi again, BookWorm. You wrote:
> 
> I think your question is interesting...You know, I'm really not sure that what you're looking for can happen without a return to religion. Sometimes I hear people talking about all the trouble and wars religion has caused, but really atheistic Communism and Fascism have caused countless more death and wars than religion ever has.
> 
> But anyway, I think for society to be restored we need a return to religion. Because if there's no god, then the greater good becomes what's best for you and yours, but if there is a God, then there's a total paradigm shift, and the greater good becomes whatever is best in God's eyes. Christianity is unique in that respect because Our Lord taught that everyone is our neighbor, and that was completely unheard of and new world view at that time, and I think it gets to the heart of what you're talking about in as much as it demands we possess the sort of morals you're talking about.


 @Annie I'm with you, our society is lacking God in their hearts. The idea of these groups of extremely wealthy families, starting in the 1800s with those who owned cotton, and tobacco crops and later oil and now one of many large corporations in pharmaceuticals, communications, banking, insurance, etc. Some of these families have had so many generations of success, they've replaced any religion they may have once had with family greed and power.

However, the only thing I can see (again, what do I know) that will change the world scales from tipping to family greed is a global event that resets the stage of society. And if then, God is once again looked at as our leader and source of inspiration then we may have a chance at some sort of world peace.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

Sasquatch said:


> Sorry to inform you but nepotism has been going on for centuries. And most likely will continue to do so.
> 
> I have been victim to nepotism and the other things you talk about. Currently I have a boss (well, bosses because I work in government) that is a total dipwad. Thing is I kind of prefer it that way. How I handle him is by making him think my ideas were his ideas. He's happy to go along with them if he thinks he came up with it. I find that's the best way to handle morons like that.


 @Sasquatch Are you assuming I was under the impression that this sort of thing just started happening in the world? I'm not the type of person who sees something happen once and then starts talking about a problem we have with society because I witnessed something I thought was wrong. I like to wait and see if a pattern develops, if I notice it time and again in different areas at times and places, so I know for sure if its a trend or just a one time thing.

This planet saw bad things/evil actions shortly after Man got here. Murder in the first family from the first set of brothers. I understand humans were not perfect by design, we have free will to choose on our own what choices we'll make.

I guess it just makes me sad that with all the religions in the world, we still can't seem to get along with all our neighbors. We need something to fight about and when it comes to families, if you're not in the right one, well you don't stand as good a chance of a better life. I don't know the Bible verse, but isn't there one that keeps it pretty simple, "Love God and Love you Neighbor".

Maybe I'm just saying I'l like a shot at living in that world... where we Love God first and our neighbors second. (and maybe naked Fridays) :vs_blush:


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Been thru all of that a few times and dealing with it now. Debating on whether or not to find new employment seeing I get 3 times as much work done when helping out on another guys (managers son) project that is 25 years my Jr. 
Not sure why I have to work so hard just because I've been been building houses more years then he's had birthdays.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> The concept that there can be no greater good without a christian god is sad.
> 
> It implies that if you didn't believe in your god, you wouldn't be moral.
> 
> And no, no atheist has ever organized a standing army and then led a crusade with it to stamp out religion.


That's not true, excluding Islam, it's godless that have killed the most.

https://carm.org/religion-cause-war



> The truth is, non-religious motivations and naturalistic philosophies bear the blame for nearly all of humankind's wars. Lives lost during religious conflict pales in comparison to those experienced during the regimes who wanted nothing to do with the idea of God - something showcased in R. J. Rummel's work Lethal Politics and Death by Government:
> 
> Non-Religious Dictator Lives Lost
> Joseph Stalin - 42,672,000
> ...


ETA: and you're right, without God I'm just a sinner not much else. God is good and any good I may do I credit to Him, not myself.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> As a Christian, I'm supposed to love and care for everybody. *sigh*
> 
> On my side there's just my brother and his wife. He's a professor, I sent him a knife once, I doubt he knows where it is, but I'd take him and his wife in.
> 
> ...


It's an important point you're bringing up, Tourist. How much charity is too much? Because none of us has infinite resources. Christ taught us to treat everyone as our neighbour, but He also said, "The poor we will always have with us." I think we have a moral obligation to care for any children, elderly and disabled family members. Beyond that, we do what we can for others within reason. If a person is single and wants to go and be another Mother Teresa, God's gonna reward them greatly in heaven, but if we have a family to support, it's not reasonable to think we can fix everyone's problems. God expects us to take care of the ones he's given us.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

And how far do you go with this blood tie thing?

Do you tolerate a family member who commits rape? Do you "take care" of a pedophile? (I didn't. I cut him loose.)

There is quite a number of things someone can do that will make me end our relationship, whether someone is "family" or not.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> That's not true, excluding Islam, it's godless that have killed the most.
> 
> https://carm.org/religion-cause-war
> 
> ...


The real math always tells the truth. So what does the math reveal, you might ask? The true nature of Man. 
A nature that can only find Grace and Redemption through God.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Oh, great, another thing to feel guilty about...

I don't think we keep as much in the house as we should, except for ammunition and pointy things. I doubt I could support five nieces for even a week.

I'd like you opinion on this. Just how benevolent must I be to rescue someone who is throwing their life away?


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

The Tourist said:


> Oh, great, another thing to feel guilty about...
> 
> I don't think we keep as much in the house as we should, except for ammunition and pointy things. I doubt I could support five nieces for even a week.
> 
> I'd like you opinion on this. Just how benevolent must I be to rescue someone who is throwing their life away?


I will give you my experience, not my advice.

I have a grown son who became addicted to heroin sometime around his college years. He cost me many, many, many thousands of dollars, a marriage, a house, and 53% of my Pension in a divorce settlement. He lies constantly, even about things of no consequence. He has become a career criminal and is responsible for at least 1 death that I know of. I have come to believe that he is a sociopath. He has no compassion or sense of guilt. In the end I chose to completely sever all contact with him. That is a very painful decision because a parent loves his children and will always hold out hope that things will turn around. But sometimes things don't change. Some people are inherently bad and no amount of hope will change that. So I was faced with continued heartaches and bankruptcy, or sucking up the hurt and walking away.

So in the end you will have to make the decision as to how much blood, treasure, and pain you want to invest in a lost cause. Only you can decide. How much is your security and mental health worth?


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

The Tourist said:


> Oh, great, another thing to feel guilty about...
> 
> I don't think we keep as much in the house as we should, except for ammunition and pointy things. I doubt I could support five nieces for even a week.
> 
> I'd like you opinion on this. Just how benevolent must I be to rescue someone who is throwing their life away?


@ The Tourist not sure who's opinion you were asking... but to offer an answer to your question: You can offer help, advice and show some love/affection towards them, but if they continue to repeat the same problem I feel you have to let go and let them fall on their face and get up on their own. They have to want to change their ways. If they don't want to improve themselves, you're just wasting time & effort.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Thanks, guys, you did answer my question by showing me slants I had not considered.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

Chiefster23 said:


> I will give you my experience, not my advice.
> 
> I have a grown son who became addicted to heroin sometime around his college years. He cost me many, many, many thousands of dollars, a marriage, a house, and 53% of my Pension in a divorce settlement. He lies constantly, even about things of no consequence. He has become a career criminal and is responsible for at least 1 death that I know of. I have come to believe that he is a sociopath. He has no compassion or sense of guilt. In the end I chose to completely sever all contact with him. That is a very painful decision because a parent loves his children and will always hold out hope that things will turn around. But sometimes things don't change. Some people are inherently bad and no amount of hope will change that. So I was faced with continued heartaches and bankruptcy, or sucking up the hurt and walking away.
> 
> So in the end you will have to make the decision as to how much blood, treasure, and pain you want to invest in a lost cause. Only you can decide. How much is your security and mental health worth?


 @Chiefster23 for what it's worth, I think you made the right choice. I can't imagine how hard it was and how much it hurt, but I think it was justified.


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## woodchipper518 (May 9, 2016)

Yes. I once worked for a family business who were in Corinth, MS. Bad eggs. President of company was a cheater. Wife was a drunk. Brothers were dumbasses worked in sales never made their quota in the year I worked there. I was naive too. They only hired people of color for warehouse or foreman jobs. Over 31 yrs ago and I can still recall some inappropriate policies that applied to them not others. I left before they had an EEOC audit. They should be glad, too. I also knew where they kept their financial records behind the pallet of 55gal Tolulene. 

Nepotism is fine if the moral fiber and character are consistent with your values. But it should not be a deciding factor when corrective action is needed. People know when fair ain't fair.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Chiefster23 said:


> I will give you my experience, not my advice.
> 
> I have a grown son who became addicted to heroin sometime around his college years. He cost me many, many, many thousands of dollars, a marriage, a house, and 53% of my Pension in a divorce settlement. He lies constantly, even about things of no consequence. He has become a career criminal and is responsible for at least 1 death that I know of. I have come to believe that he is a sociopath. He has no compassion or sense of guilt. In the end I chose to completely sever all contact with him. That is a very painful decision because a parent loves his children and will always hold out hope that things will turn around. But sometimes things don't change. Some people are inherently bad and no amount of hope will change that. So I was faced with continued heartaches and bankruptcy, or sucking up the hurt and walking away.
> 
> So in the end you will have to make the decision as to how much blood, treasure, and pain you want to invest in a lost cause. Only you can decide. How much is your security and mental health worth?


There's a limit, Chiefster. It sounds like you made the right choice albiet a hard one.


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## modfan (Feb 18, 2016)

I've worked for family companies where the son, cousin, daughter, or someone with family ties was a dumb A** and I had to carry them. I have also worked other places where a person was hired because they were the same color, went to the same school, was drinking buddy, or just had a good story and I had to carry them. There are no shortage on unqualified people in business. I think if it wasn't a common last name it would be something else.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

One has only to look at trumps daughter and son in law in the white house handling classified info without a clearance and his daughter filling in for him in meetings with foreign governments to see it. In a private company not right but it is their company NO way should it be in government . But that is the terrible state our nation is in.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Chiefster23 said:


> I will give you my experience, not my advice.
> 
> I have a grown son who became addicted to heroin sometime around his college years. He cost me many, many, many thousands of dollars, a marriage, a house, and 53% of my Pension in a divorce settlement. He lies constantly, even about things of no consequence. He has become a career criminal and is responsible for at least 1 death that I know of. I have come to believe that he is a sociopath. He has no compassion or sense of guilt. In the end I chose to completely sever all contact with him. That is a very painful decision because a parent loves his children and will always hold out hope that things will turn around. But sometimes things don't change. Some people are inherently bad and no amount of hope will change that. So I was faced with continued heartaches and bankruptcy, or sucking up the hurt and walking away.
> 
> So in the end you will have to make the decision as to how much blood, treasure, and pain you want to invest in a lost cause. Only you can decide. How much is your security and mental health worth?


Hang in there Chiefster and continue forward, one step at a time.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

RJAMES said:


> One has only to look at trumps daughter and son in law in the white house handling classified info without a clearance and his daughter filling in for him in meetings with foreign governments to see it. In a private company not right but it is their company NO way should it be in government . But that is the terrible state our nation is in.


Sour grapes.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie, this is not a new screed in the government vs. nepotism.

When Carter became President, he had to turn over his peanut farm to a blind trust--he could not even get reports. However, he had a brother who was in love with fame--and beer--and there's no doubt in my mind that rumors and gossip reached Carter anyway and short-circuited the same idea.

Trump is a billionaire, he gets reports. Most times from the friendly neighborhood ninja, but he gets reports.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Other than my wife, the only people I have ever been willing to die for wore the Red Diamond shoulder patch of the 5th Infantry Division in Northern I Corps, Republic of Vietnam.
Those two bonds are thicker than any blood family for this guy.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, this is not a new screed in the government vs. nepotism.
> 
> When Carter became President, he had to turn over his peanut farm to a blind trust--he could not even get reports. However, he had a brother who was in love with fame--and beer--and there's no doubt in my mind that rumors and gossip reached Carter anyway and short-circuited the same idea.
> 
> Trump is a billionaire, he gets reports. Most times from the friendly neighborhood ninja, but he gets reports.


Billy Beer!


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> The concept that there can be no greater good without a christian god is sad.
> 
> It implies that if you didn't believe in your god, you wouldn't be moral.
> 
> And no, no atheist has ever organized a standing army and then led a crusade with it to stamp out religion.


Hitler was either an atheist, or a pagan, or a pantheist, who can tell sometimes; and he formed Nazi Germany. Which then formed the SS and Einsatzgruppen, to eliminate the Jews. He eliminated the Catholics and Protestants who got in his way too; he put priests and nuns into death camps. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was hanged at the Flossenberg concentration camp, and he was there because he opposed Hitler ;and because he was a Christian, who would not bend the knee.
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf , where he stated his aims to conquer the East, and to fight the Jews. I believe that you are wrong.

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: 'by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.' _-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf) 
Adolf Hitler about the Jews - Quotes from Mein Kampf

_


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, how's this for a view of religions.

Revelation states that when Christ comes, he will be greeted by "the remnant." As an SDA, we take that to mean that all the people who are still alive, who believe in the mercy of God and strive to spread faith and charity.

Yeah, I know, I know. I do "prom camel" jokes. But it is not out of the realm of possibilities that the man standing next to me at the end of carnal time, crying his eyes out in joy, might be wearing a keffiyeh and calling me brother.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Actually, well, you know, Godwin.

Thank you.


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