# Finally happened!



## taps50 (Sep 28, 2013)

I was driving home from work tonight and got pulled over with my sidearm on my hip. First time I have been pulled over since I've had my CCW. Overall it was a good experience, the officer didn't ask me to step out or did he make a big deal of me having it, just asked me to hand over my license, both drivers and CCW, and after he checked them out proceeded with giving me a warning for my headlight. After he gave me the warning he told me that he appreciated that I informed him of my CCW and the firearm right away and that he is a big fan of CCW. I'm actually glad that it finally happened to get it over with and see the correct way that an officer want me to inform them of my CCW. So overall it was a good experience.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Awesome...now just be prepared for the officer that is not a fan and know your rights.


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## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

Good to hear it all went well.


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## taps50 (Sep 28, 2013)

Old SF Guy said:


> Awesome...now just be prepared for the officer that is not a fan and know your rights.


I definitely should reread the laws, I read them when I first got my CCW but I sure wont hurt to reread, and maybe there is a new part of the law that I can get up to date on.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Yay! A good cop experience on the board for a change.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I had about the same experience in KY they just asked if I was carrying a gun and I said yes but they didn't ask to see my CCW. Just my driver's licence, actually I don't know why they would need to see if you had a ccw licence anyway because as soon as they run your plates it shows that you have a ccw. I had another experience in a park that I was hiking in and a young lady came up to me and said some children said a man was chasing them. I called the police and they said they would be there in a few minutes and I told them over the phone that I was carrying and they just said ok. When the police showed up they never said a word about me carrying in the park. They told the young lady that they already looked into it and it was just a bunch of children that their parents told them not to go to the park and that they just got scared over nothing.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

taps50 said:


> I was driving home from work tonight and got pulled over with my sidearm on my hip. First time I have been pulled over since I've had my CCW. Overall it was a good experience, the officer didn't ask me to step out or did he make a big deal of me having it, just asked me to hand over my license, both drivers and CCW, and after he checked them out proceeded with giving me a warning for my headlight. After he gave me the warning he told me that he appreciated that I informed him of my CCW and the firearm right away and that he is a big fan of CCW. I'm actually glad that it finally happened to get it over with and see the correct way that an officer want me to inform them of my CCW. So overall it was a good experience.


I'm glad it went well, and you seemed to have a good experience... but you live in a state where you don't need to inform. Next time, let him or her do their job and don't bother them with details that are none of their business.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

taps50 said:


> I was driving home from work tonight and got pulled over with my sidearm on my hip. First time I have been pulled over since I've had my CCW. Overall it was a good experience, the officer didn't ask me to step out or did he make a big deal of me having it, just asked me to hand over my license, both drivers and CCW, and after he checked them out proceeded with giving me a warning for my headlight. After he gave me the warning he told me that he appreciated that I informed him of my CCW and the firearm right away and that he is a big fan of CCW. I'm actually glad that it finally happened to get it over with and see the correct way that an officer want me to inform them of my CCW. So overall it was a good experience.


Had the same experience I guess it was about 2 years ago. Pulled over on my mc. The cop even said the same stuff to me about being a fan of CC. One thing of note: They probably already know you have a permit when they first approach your car, as they for sure have already run your plate number. Therefore ..... to not immediately tell them would be a big mistake. Just don't say "I have a gun"


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> Therefore ..... to not immediately tell them *would be a big mistake*. Just don't say "I have a gun"


Sorry, but I'm myth busting this one. Unless you live in a state where it's the law to inform (sorry if you do) then there is no mistake made.

Do you announce when you're exercising your 1st amendment rights? Any other rights that need to be announced before hand? In most cases this is a form of conditioning; a lot of people who carry guns for their first time at some level feel like they are doing something wrong, and as such feel obligated to inform law enforcement that they are doing so. There's absolutely no reason to, just like you wouldn't tell him the contents of your glovebox or your wallet, it's none of their business and irrelevant to their job.

Further, it won't go well every time. You will get a punk rookie some day that has no idea what the law is (because they don't teach them all, and as we all know there's a lot of misconceptions floating around), and you're going to wind up at gun point, or at the very least making the officer very nervous for no beneficial reason.

It isn't a matter of "being polite". If an officer approached you out of the blue (didn't pull you over for a traffic infraction, didn't have any reason to approach you) and asked for your ID, would you hand it over, because why not, you're not doing anything wrong? I hope not, because you shouldn't. It's the same thing.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> but you live in a state where you don't need to inform. Next time, let him or her do their job and don't bother them with details that are none of their business.


I disagree. An LEOs job is risky as hell -- and none more so than when he approaches a car for the first time. He will already know that you have a permit, and there is a good likelihood you are carrying. While 99% of CC people are upstanding citizens, there is always the outlier -- the one that goes against the odds. If you immediately notify the officer that you A) have a permit, and then B) that you are in fact carrying, 
it greatly diffuses the anxiety with the officer. And -- quite often, if the reason you will pulled over in the first place is something minor, there is a good chance the officer will just give you a warning. As stated earlier -- many of these officers truly believe in the right to carry and they feel a kinship to a law abiding citizen who also carrys.

I do not see any downside to this approach - unless of course your main concern is "need to know" insofar as the strict letter of the law in your state. This is one of those times where I think common sense trumps.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> I disagree. An LEOs job is risky as hell


So why are you intent on making his or her night even more tense by telling them there's a gun?

This is a matter of much debate on defensive carry and open carry forums. The benefits have not been found to outweigh the negative; some people have had extremely poor experiences doing what they thought was the common sense and polite thing to do. If it's the law in your state, by all means. It does however seem odd that a group of people who readily lose their firearms in boating accidents would be so willing to give up their rights to privacy.

When you walk in to the grocery store, do you tell the manager? Just for his safety? When you've been pulled over because your tail light is out, your gun has no bearing on the situation. It has no relevance. Just like when you go shopping.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I wouldn't tell the officer unless specifically asked. There is always a chance that the Leo is having a bad day or is just a dick in general. The best thing to do when interacting with police is to be polite and remember your rights.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> I wouldn't tell the officer unless specifically asked. There is always a chance that the Leo is having a bad day or is just a dick in general. The best thing to do when interacting with police is to be polite and *remember your rights*.


This. A right not exercised is a right lost.

In the interest of disclosure, I'm not anti law enforcement. This doesn't fuel my answer. When I get pulled over, and trust me I have been for everything from speeding to broken tail lights (funny story about that one I'll have to reminisce on some day), I am extremely polite. I find a safe spot for both of us to pull over (even if this means leading the officer at a high rate of speed for a few miles down the freeway), turn off my engine immediately and lower my window and any that are tinted, so he can see that there are no threats in my vehicle. I know their job is hard. I just don't volunteer anything that isn't important to the situation.

I don't hold it against anyone who decides to act differently. That's your choice. Just be careful, because you could wind up in a much more dangerous situation if the officer decides to disarm you and isn't comfortable with your firearm.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> So why are you intent on making his or her night even more tense by telling them there's a gun?


I thought I already explained that. Once again -- the officer already knows you MOST LIKELY are carrying. IMO (and that is all it is because I am not an LEO, nor have I ever been one), the officer's anxiety would go UP if you didn't immediately open the conversation with your CC status.

I've been carrying for too many years and talked with too many LEO friends to change my mind on this. Love to have some LEO input on this on the forum.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> I thought I already explained that. Once again -- the officer already knows you MOST LIKELY are carrying. IMO (and that is all it is because I am not an LEO, nor have I ever been one), the officer's anxiety would go UP if you didn't immediately open the conversation with your CC status.


That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. If the officer is aware of the local statutes then there is no reason for him to be any more or less cautious with you than anyone else he may encounter, period. If his demeanor changes due to knowing that you are carrying, you may have a problem long before you even disclose any information to them.



DerBiermeister said:


> I've been carrying for too many years and talked with too many LEO friends to change my mind on this. Love to have some LEO input on this on the forum.


Everyone is different, and as I mentioned above you are more than welcome to your approach. I've been pulled over at least a few times since I started carrying and never once informed. Never once had an encounter that didn't end with "Have a good day!" either, and on all but one or two occasions, usually left with a warning.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I find it funny CCW classes are advertised everywhere up here


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. If the officer is aware of the local statutes then there is no reason for him to be any more or less cautious with you than anyone else he may encounter, period. If his demeanor changes due to knowing that you are carrying, you may have a problem long before you even disclose any information to them.
> 
> Everyone is different, and as I mentioned above you are more than welcome to your approach. I've been pulled over at least a few times since I started carrying and never once informed. Never once had an encounter that didn't end with "Have a good day!" either, and on all but one or two occasions, usually left with a warning.


To carry this one step further -- if you do happen to be in a state that doesn't require informing and an officer asked you if you are carrying -- would you actually tell the LEO *"that question has no bearing on why I was pulled over"*?

Btw -- I just did some research, and the following states require informing:

•Alaska (Alaska Stat. Ann. §11.61.220)
•Arkansas (Ark Admin. Code 130.00.8-3-2(b)
•Delaware (Griffen v. State, 47 A.3d 487)
•Illinois (430 ILCS 66/10)
•Louisiana
•Michigan (MCL 28.425f(3))
•Nebraska (Neb. Rev. Stat. §69-2440)
•North Carolina (N.C. Gen. Stat. Ann. §14-415.11)
•Ohio (Ohio Rev. Code Ann. §2923.16)
•Oklahoma (Okla. Stat. Ann. tit. 21, §1290.8)
•South Carolina (§23-31-215)
•Texas (must provide permit when asked for ID, §411.205)


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

In Florida the Concealed Firearm or Weapon license (Florida's term for it) is run by the Dept of Agriculture and your license is not listed in the DMV and not tied to your plate. The officer would not have this information simply by "running" your plate.
Also, there is no "must inform" here either.
That said, I have asked several LEO's what would be the proper way to handle things. They all said, with one exception, that the best thing was to simply hand your weapon license and drivers license together to the officer. The one officer who was the exception said he expects everyone he stops as being armed.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

DerBiermeister said:


> To carry this one step further -- if you do happen to be in a state that doesn't require informing -- would you actually tell the LEO *"that question has no bearing on why I was pulled over"*?
> 
> Btw -- I just did some research, and the following states require informing:
> 
> ...


Here is a case where informing went wrong. I notice that new jersey is not on the list you provided.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/1...illy-mother-facing-three-years-on-gun-charge/

Edit: the article states the officer knew the gun was there. If she kept it out of sight and kept her mouth shut about it would he still have known?


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> Here is a case where informing went wrong. I notice that new jersey is not on the list you provided.
> 
> 'Honest mistake' leads to Philly mother facing three years on gun charge | Fox News
> 
> Edit: the article states the officer knew the gun was there. If she kept it out of sight and kept her mouth shut about it would he still have known?


New Jersey --- what can I say?

That story pisses me off on so many fronts I can hardly begin. But let me at least say HOW callous does an officer have to be to arrest a nice mother who made an honest mistake by crossing over into NJ? Geezums!


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)




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## taps50 (Sep 28, 2013)

Overall I'm happy with the way I, and the Officer, handled the situation. When I took my CCW class I was told that I was obligated to inform an officer, I'll have to double check that for next time, and I'm pretty sure when an officer pulls you over in Wisconsin it doesn't show that I have a CCW. Like I said earlier I'll have to read up on the laws here in Wisconsin.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> To carry this one step further -- if you do happen to be in a state that doesn't require informing and an officer asked you if you are carrying -- would you actually tell the LEO *"that question has no bearing on why I was pulled over"*?


The simple answer is yes, I would.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

taps50 said:


> Overall I'm happy with the way I, and the Officer, handled the situation. When I took my CCW class I was told that I was obligated to inform an officer, I'll have to double check that for next time, and I'm pretty sure when an officer pulls you over in Wisconsin it doesn't show that I have a CCW. Like I said earlier I'll have to read up on the laws here in Wisconsin.


Apologies for hijacking your thread to discuss that issue. An excellent resource to check when travelling or just reviewing your own state statutes is handgunlaw.us - in your case http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf

Handgunlaw.us does an amazing job of keeping current, but it is a third party resource and you should always verify it with current state statutes. Wisconsin's statute concerning "must inform" status is 175.60(2g)(c):

_Unless the licensee or out-of-state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out-of-state licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her out-of-state license and photographic identification card to a law enforcement officer upon the request of the law enforcement officer while the law enforcement officer is acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority._

This is exactly the same way your drivers license works. You have no duty to present it or inform anyone of it's existence unless it's in direct relation to an official capacity (such as a traffic stop). This also mans by extension that unless your gun is relevant to the reason you were stopped, you have no legal obligation to inform the officer that you have one on your person.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The argument can rage from both sides from here to eternity.

Do what you feel is right, and don't tell others that they have to follow your example.

As for me, I would always inform the officer regardless of the legal need or not.
He will find out once he runs your license, so informing him before that takes away all doubt.
If you say nothing, and he runs your license and finds you can carry, a seed of doubt and worry can enter his mind as he approaches your vehicle a second time. (whether it should is another discussion)
Anytime an officer encounters an unexpected weapon, they get a bit nervous.
I see no reason to add any stimulus to the situation.
I prefer for all cards to be on the table. I know he's armed, he knows I'm armed, we're square.
I've only been pulled over once while carrying, and it went swimmingly... aside from the speeding ticket.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> Do what you feel is right, and don't tell others that they have to follow your example.


I hope I wasn't telling anyone what to do. I'm sure it came across that way; I'm expressing my opinion on the subject and discussing it with you folks. Short of states where you must inform, I don't see either as being wrong or right, I see them as a choice you make. People are welcome to do what they feel best, but more importantly they should be familiar with the law. Know your states statutes first, and if you plan on travelling with a weapon, be well aware of those in any state you intend to pass through.



Kauboy said:


> He will find out once he runs your license, so informing him before that takes away all doubt.


In your state, yes. Not hardly in all of them.



Kauboy said:


> Anytime an officer encounters an unexpected weapon, they get a bit nervous.


For what reason would he encounter it? So far the hypothetical has been a traffic stop. I have no reason to vacate my vehicle, and he has absolutely none to be searching it.



Kauboy said:


> I see no reason to add any stimulus to the situation.


From my perspective, that's what _you're_ doing. This is where our opinions differ the most.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

When My wife and I went down and took the CCW class they told the class that there is no need to tell the officer you have a permit, he knew it when he ran the plate as other posters have stated.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Florida is one of the states where you can have firearms in your vehicle with no permit whatsoever. Therefore, if pulled over by a cop, he most likely assumes you have a gun in the car (I have more than one, myself).
I am not going to add to his already heightened sense of alert and simply hand him my permit. That, plus my wonderfully personable attitude will work wonders, no doubt.
Seriously, in the rare instances I have been pulled over I treat the cop the way I wish to be treated and it has worked fine so far.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> In your state, yes. Not hardly in all of them.


In any state where the same entity that issues your drivers license also issues your carry license(if it does).



dannydefense said:


> For what reason would he encounter it? So far the hypothetical has been a traffic stop. I have no reason to vacate my vehicle, and he has absolutely none to be searching it.


An encounter does not have to be visible. He now knows it exists, and he didn't suspect anything prior.



dannydefense said:


> From my perspective, that's what _you're_ doing. This is where our opinions differ the most.


Offering him a piece of plastic that legally confirms that my state agrees that I am capable of safely carrying a firearm, and that I have ZERO record of violence, is not stimulus.
It is quite the opposite.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> An encounter does not have to be visible. He now knows it exists, and he didn't suspect anything prior.


I must not be following. How does he know it exists?



Kauboy said:


> Offering him a piece of plastic that legally confirms that my state agrees that I am capable of safely carrying a firearm, and that I have ZERO record of violence, is not stimulus.
> It is quite the opposite.


I think that's the other place where we disagree then. You're conceding that it's alright for the state to restrict your right to carry until you prove competence. I don't; I'm pushing for my state and others to adopt constitutional carry.

My zero record of violence is already available. My zero record of anything at all other than two traffic violations (coincidentally enough within 3 weeks of one another) is already available. Showing your permit does nothing to reinforce this fact.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Offering him a piece of plastic that legally confirms that my state agrees that I am capable of safely carrying a firearm, and that I have ZERO record of violence, is not stimulus.
> It is quite the opposite.


My thoughts as well. And that of the cops I have spoken with.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I work with a leo, he says do not offer info other than what is asked. I read somewhere where lawyers say the same thing. I may be wrong, frequently I am. They know more about you before you say one word than you think. New computers in cop cars access all info, they ask questions to see if you're lying. They already know the answer.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> You're conceding that it's alright for the state to restrict your right to carry until you prove competence. I don't; I'm pushing for my state and others to adopt constitutional carry.


A worthy exercise. I happen to also believe in -- let's just call it greatly reduced carry restrictions. The Constitution doesn't address (as far as I can remember) the issue of competence in owning or carrying a weapon. I for one do NOT want the mentally impaired or convicted criminals having access to weapons. So, I support some amount of "laws" governing our Constitutional right to bear arms. Do we need 20,000 laws? Of course we don't. We need sensible laws and nothing more. Maybe 20,000 could be reduced down to a couple for each state ... say 100 laws.

Having said that -- I am pretty sure that, during a traffic stop, this is not the time to make an issue of your Constitutional rights. When you are in your car, driving on a road, and pulled over ... you are in the domain of the LEO. He is in control. I personally am going to do everything I can to diffuse any potential tension. If it is night, I am going to turn on my interior lights and my hands will be at the 10 and 2 position on the steering wheel. Even if I am pissed at the cop, he'll never know it. I will be very polite and start out by saying "good evening officer". I will already have retrieved my driver's license, my car's registration, and my CC permit -- no matter what State I am in. (I am not going to fine-tune my actions based on different State laws ... nor would I even try to differentiate between them.)

I will hand these three documents to him and await any questions. I expect the first question will be: "are you currently carrying?". I will answer that truthfully and he will probably then ask "where is your weapon right now?". I will then answer that question truthfully and await his next questions.

Of course there is always the possibility that I could run into a cop having a bad night and this could end up with me being handcuffed or something. But I would guess that possibility at maybe 1%. I like those odds, just like when I had similar odds with open heart surgery.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

First time I got pulled over while carrying I was doing 90 on a lonely stretch of highway. I had a shoulder holster under my jacket and rather than chance him getting nervous if something showed I just handed him my ccw permit with everything else and told him what I was carrying and where it was because I did not want anyone getting excited. The state trooper let me off with a warning which is pretty rare. Usually if you get pulled over by the state police, your getting cited. 

You do need to know the laws of the particular state/locality your traveling in so as not to run a foul of the law. Places like NYC your doing a year for violating the Sullivan Act. So if you do not know exactly what the law is during your encounter I would shut up and not announce anything that might incriminate me being as firearms laws are nowhere near uniform. Huge penalties exist for being wrong. Monetary as well as personal freedom.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> You do need to know the laws of the particular state/locality your traveling in so as not to run a foul of the law. Places like NYC your doing a year for violating the Sullivan Act. So if you do not know exactly what the law is during your encounter I would shut up and not announce anything that might incriminate me being as firearms laws are nowhere near uniform. Huge penalties exist for being wrong. Monetary as well as personal freedom.


I am a long distance rider. I've even been to Alaska and back. The only laws I paid attention to were you can't bring a weapon into Canada, so my guns stayed home. In the states, I sometimes browse the reciprocity laws between states .. like I know my permit from VA ain't worth squat in Georgia. So when I ride in Georgia, my weapon gets off my body, unloaded and locked in my saddlebag, magazine in the other bag. If I get stopped, and that ain't good enough, I am just going have to suffer the consequences.

I wish to hell the states would ONCE AND FOR ALL get their act together on this stuff. But other than that, I don't usually dig any deeper. You almost need a law degree to decipher a lot of the state laws. But -- I respect what you say about NYC. Almost the same situation in DC. Thankfully, I don't intend on frequenting either place any time soon. I only do DC when I do the Ride To The Wall and that's been a few years.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

DerBiermeister said:


> A worthy exercise. I happen to also believe in -- let's just call it greatly reduced carry restrictions. The Constitution doesn't address (as far as I can remember) the issue of competence in owning or carrying a weapon. I for one do NOT want the mentally impaired or convicted criminals having access to weapons. So, I support some amount of "laws" governing our Constitutional right to bear arms. Do we need 20,000 laws? Of course we don't. We need sensible laws and nothing more. Maybe 20,000 could be reduced down to a couple for each state ... say 100 laws.


SO wrong. The only thing we need is the 2nd amendment



DerBiermeister said:


> Having said that -- I am pretty sure that, during a traffic stop, this is not the time to make an issue of your Constitutional rights. When you are in your car, driving on a road, and pulled over ... you are in the domain of the LEO. He is in control. I personally am going to do everything I can to diffuse any potential tension. If it is night, I am going to turn on my interior lights and my hands will be at the 10 and 2 position on the steering wheel. Even if I am pissed at the cop, he'll never know it. I will be very polite and start out by saying "good evening officer". I will already have retrieved my driver's license, my car's registration, and my CC permit -- no matter what State I am in. (I am not going to fine-tune my actions based on different State laws ... nor would I even try to differentiate between them.)


You don't make an issue of your constitutional rights, you exercise them.



DerBiermeister said:


> I will hand these three documents to him and await any questions. I expect the first question will be: "are you currently carrying?". I will answer that truthfully and he will probably then ask "where is your weapon right now?". I will then answer that question truthfully and await his next questions.


I don't think either of these questions would be asked if you simply didn't tell the officer you were exercising your right to bear arms.



DerBiermeister said:


> Of course there is always the possibility that I could run into a cop having a bad night and this could end up with me being handcuffed or something. But I would guess that possibility at maybe 1%. I like those odds, just like when I had similar odds with open heart surgery.


Not sure of the percentage. I think your odds are better if the officer doesn't know you're armed.


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## mcangus (Jun 3, 2014)

I don't get it, why did OP mention is CCW? I don't believe you should unless maybe some places require it by law?


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Danny I see your point in not giving away rights that you have...but I also see that an officer will appreciate your candor and not be antagonistic...just because you have a CCW doesn't mean your packing...its a friendly thing to do to let the officer know...yes...on this day I have it so don't be alarmed if you see it...But your point is valid on a principled stand point.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

I said "I for one do NOT want the mentally impaired or convicted criminals having access to weapons. So, I support some amount of "laws" governing our Constitutional right to bear arms."

You said:


Arklatex said:


> SO wrong. The only thing we need is the 2nd amendment


Your response seems to advocate a care-free attitude with regard to those two groups of people. Now I know that criminals, for the most part, are going to have access to weapons -- I didn't get off the boat yesterday. Just like any law, enforcement of it is always minimal. But that doesn't mean our society shouldn't at least try to restrict weapons with these two groups. Let me make that clear -- ONLY those two groups.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

I said: "I will already have retrieved my driver's license, my car's registration, *and my CC permit*"

You said:


Arklatex said:


> You don't make an issue of your constitutional rights, you exercise them.


Alright -- let me put the onus on you. Why did you even go through the exercise of getting your CC permit in the first place if you truly believe your Constitutional rights is all you need?

I can answer that -- it is because, while you may be a principled person (as I am), you also have to come down from the clouds and face reality. The reality is that you happen to live in a state that has firearm laws -- like it or not. If you feel so strongly against those laws, then it is imperative that you get involved in the political process and either run for office yourself, or heavily support candidates that represent your ideals.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

I had a similar positive experience before I got my CWP, in a state other than SC. I think I have told the story so I will not bother you with it again.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> I must not be following. How does he know it exists?


He knows because his check on your DL will reveal it (again, if both are handled by the same entity, like it is in TX)
But he will only know AFTER he's already interacted with you. Now he will re-approach your vehicle with the idea that a gun is likely to be present.
*SHOULD* he worry about this? From a law-abiding citizen's point of view, no. From an officer's perspective, who meets criminals all day everyday, it will raise some neck hairs.



dannydefense said:


> I think that's the other place where we disagree then. You're conceding that it's alright for the state to restrict your right to carry until you prove competence. I don't; I'm pushing for my state and others to adopt constitutional carry.


I didn't say I was alright with anything. I'm merely offering information to put him at ease.



dannydefense said:


> My zero record of violence is already available. My zero record of anything at all other than two traffic violations (coincidentally enough within 3 weeks of one another) is already available. Showing your permit does nothing to reinforce this fact.


Your records *is* available, but if the first interaction is within 2 minutes of being pulled over, he doesn't know who is behind the wheel yet to run a check on you, thus asks for your DL to check. If he gets an additional card that immediately reveals that I've never had a felony charge, again, it puts him at ease before he ever runs a check.

I'm not telling you you're wrong for not offering it.
I'm just providing the opposite opinion on the situation.
I choose to inform, you choose not to. Neither is wrong.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Old SF Guy said:


> Danny I see your point in not giving away rights that you have...but I also see that an officer will appreciate your candor and not be antagonistic...just because you have a CCW doesn't mean your packing...its a friendly thing to do to let the officer know...yes...on this day I have it so don't be alarmed if you see it...But your point is valid on a principled stand point.


I'd like to point this out again, because there are two type of people on my side of the fence; those who believe as I do, that what is none of their business stays that way until it becomes their business, and those who wish to antagonize and force police officers into a situation so they can post the whole bullshit exercise on youtube. I am the former. I have been pulled over on a few occasions, and never had anything less than a courteous conversation with the officer involved. At no time did it ever become tense, and at no time did my lack of informing him ever seem to cause any problem. I have absolutely no intention of displaying or handling my firearm during a routine stop, so I see no reason to even make it a subject. That's all.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> A worthy exercise. I happen to also believe in -- let's just call it greatly reduced carry restrictions. The Constitution doesn't address (as far as I can remember) the issue of competence in owning or carrying a weapon. I for one do NOT want the mentally impaired or convicted criminals having access to weapons. So, I support some amount of "laws" governing our Constitutional right to bear arms. Do we need 20,000 laws? Of course we don't. We need sensible laws and nothing more. Maybe 20,000 could be reduced down to a couple for each state ... say 100 laws.


I can't really argue that. The problem as I see it is the fact that we already have so much restrictive, redundant or outright ridiculous legislation on the subject, that the only way I see out is to topple it (legally) and rebuild it with the basis being the second amendment and nothing else. Again, that doesn't mean hand out guns like candy, it just means getting everyone on board and working together, similar I believe to what you are suggesting.



DerBiermeister said:


> Having said that -- I am pretty sure that, during a traffic stop, this is not the time to make an issue of your Constitutional rights.


That I can and will argue. It is _always_ time to make an issue of your rights. We lose them when we don't exercise them. They are rights, why would anyone temporarily renege them?



DerBiermeister said:


> When you are in your car, driving on a road, and pulled over ... you are in the domain of the LEO. He is in control.


Does that make them above the law? I always thought they should be cardinals of the law, and there is no greater "law" than our constitution.



DerBiermeister said:


> Of course there is always the possibility that I could run into a cop having a bad night and this could end up with me being handcuffed or something. But I would guess that possibility at maybe 1%. I like those odds, just like when I had similar odds with open heart surgery.


This isn't my biggest concern. It's tertiary to my rights and my privacy. Yet it has happened, and will happen again.


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