# What is the DHS preparing for?



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

According to this article the Department of Homeland Security has purchased over 2 billion rounds since 2012. That's enough to wage continuous war for over 20 years by some estimates. What do yall think?

DHS To Purchase 62 Million Rounds Of AR-15 Ammo | Market Daily News


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Interesting isn't it? A department that has no military troops attached to it feels a need to have that much ammo on hand. Even more interesting? How many AR's do they have on hand? If none or few, why so much Ammo?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Must have been on this site and heard about September.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

The Department of Homeland Security's Mission Statement (from their website) is as follows;

Mission
Our duties are wide-ranging and our goal is clear: a safer, more secure America, which is resilient against terrorism and other potential threats.

Mission | Homeland Security

By keeping arms, The DHS's actions are consistent with their written mission, correct? Since the DHS is part of the Federal Government and WE THE PEOPLE own the Federal Government than by extension, this supports WE THE PEOPLE keeping and bearing arms for a safer and more secure America?

That's the logical assumption but the more realistic take away is that if DHS keeps buying rounds it creates a strain on supply and WE THE PEOPLE get screwed.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

According to the reliable source I have, intell reveals that DHS has assesed that they need millions of rounds and great preparations to hopefully get a maximum 2 percent chance of success if they invaded the Slippy compound.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

They will never do it! To arms! Defend the Slippy compound to the death! more Pikes!


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Slippy said:


> The Department of Homeland Security's Mission Statement (from their website) is as follows;
> 
> Mission
> Our duties are wide-ranging and our goal is clear: a safer, more secure America, which is resilient against terrorism and other potential threats.


Securing our borders would be a great start for a safer, more secure America, that would be more resilient to terrorism and other potential threats...



Slippy said:


> That's the logical assumption but the more realistic take away is that if DHS keeps buying rounds it creates a strain on supply and WE THE PEOPLE get screwed.


Yep I agree. Apparently they get any ammo they want first before it's released to the civilian market. So they buy as much as they can to try and keep the shelves bare. Either that or they are gearing up for something more sinister.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

Pretty simple explanation, folks.

The whole DHS "ammo grab" was orchestrated by the Obamanistas in their "back door gun control" campaign.

It obviously didn't work.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I the past arms and ammo have been purchased for the Department of Eucation also. Two possiblities1) driving down availabilityammo to the public while driving up pricesby DHS and 2) preperation for internal threats what ever they are deamed to be. These purchases are not for overseas or to repeal invaders. This government is more concerned about controling Joe average than any amount of Jihad.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Since every federal agency is now armed, and most have military grade SWAT teams, even those agencies like EPA, that is a lot of AR15's.
If every member burns 400 rounds a year to qualify and stay proficient, that is a lot of ammo.

Edited to add: Since the only rifle I have in 5.56 NATO/.223 Remington is my Mini 14 varmint rifle, I do not feel your pain. :joyous:
Maybe you need to go COMBLOC.:armata_PDT_36:


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## Quietsurvivalist (Apr 26, 2015)

This comes up every 6 months or so

So from someone who actually did the research- This is a contract for OPTIONS to buy at a fixed price over a certain number of years. No where in any of the requests for purchase does it guarantee any purchases, it just locks a company to a fixed price for the contacted years

And I continue to be amazed at the fear mongering about ammunition contracts

And 400 rds isnt even close to what gets burned a year, per rifle and armed officer. Just saying from the user end


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

Quietsurvivalist said:


> This comes up every 6 months or so
> 
> So from someone who actually did the research- This is a contract for OPTIONS to buy at a fixed price over a certain number of years. No where in any of the requests for purchase does it guarantee any purchases, it just locks a company to a fixed price for the contacted years
> 
> ...


Your explanation makes no sense at all.

If these ammo purchases were just for "options" to lock in a certain price for a certain number of years, then WHY did we have this huge shortage of virtually ALL types of ammo for so long?

Some ammo is STILL in short supply.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> Your explanation makes no sense at all.
> 
> If these ammo purchases were just for "options" to lock in a certain price for a certain number of years, then WHY did we have this huge shortage of virtually ALL types of ammo for so long?
> 
> Some ammo is STILL in short supply.


We have had ammo shortages because every time an article like this hits the internet, there is a mass stampede of sheeple buying every last bit of ammo on the shelves like locusts descending on a wheat field.
Anyone who goes out and buys another thousand rounds on top of the 10,000 they already own is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Whenever ammo inventory stabilizes, BAM we have another internet rumor and the cycle is repeated.

As Pogo used to say: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> Your explanation makes no sense at all.
> 
> If these ammo purchases were just for "options" to lock in a certain price for a certain number of years, then WHY did we have this huge shortage of virtually ALL types of ammo for so long?
> 
> Some ammo is STILL in short supply.


His explanation *does* make sense. He researched it and found that it was not a purchase order, but an agreement to hold a price for the coming years up to a certain amount of rounds, if needed.
Your reaction to this was based solely on the *ASSUMPTION* that the government is causing ammunition shortages due to massive bulk buying. You aren't presenting any evidence to support that claim, you're just using it as a rebuttal. That isn't much of a case, if you ask me.

Thanks for looking deeper into that for us Q!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I remember being assigned to set up a land nav course with booby traps and I was given 2 fire teams for opforce. (I was a Sgt)

a Gunny ask me if he could lend me a hand (Gunny had several purple hearts, and a bunch of other medals from Vietnam)..HELL YA GUNNY

I learned some tricks about making people go where you want them to go and about setting up traps.... 

#1.. do not set it up to get the point man... set it up to get those 25-50 yards behind him

-----------------
anyway...having a ton of ammo is nice... but you have to know how to use it....and be willing to use it


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

We the people are labeled the enemies of the state. Every government has to repress its own citizens to remain in power. The ammo is there in order to repress the citizens.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

6811 said:


> According to the reliable source I have, intell reveals that DHS has assesed that they need millions of rounds and great preparations to hopefully get a maximum 2 percent chance of success if they invaded the Slippy compound.


The Slippy compound is a false front, his real hideout is on an Indian reservation, under a formation called Black Mesa, unlimited coal reserves, lots of deer, and turkey to hunt, and the indian maidens are really beautiful.

*Rancher *


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

DHS includes a lot of agencies. 216,000 employees. If half are training with firearms it's easily 200 million rounds a year. So ten years...yes 2 billion rounds.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

I agree with the part it is to dry up ammo for regular Joes.
it may be a contract for specified amount over xxx years @ xxx price but if you take away the bullets the gun becomes a paper weight.

gad durn it rancher now you spilled the secret now I can't just say I'm going to slippys to sit on the porch sip bourbon and shoot the breeze anymore.


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## Quietsurvivalist (Apr 26, 2015)

Do a micro study if you think we arent what is causing the shortages then

Im sure you know someone who works in a GS or a big box store

Talk to them and get numbers about 1 simple thing 22lr

I did. Turns out the caliber no one can get, is being shipped at an all time high number of rounds and people are running it out of the store as fast as they get it

We are in fact our own worst enemy and that continues Thanks RPD, Kauboy and especially Ripon who was able to do basic math all on his own to see the truth


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Here is another article. http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/2014/q2/the-facts-on-dhs-and-government-ammo-purchases/ I'm not sure how reliable of a source it is but they cite figures from reliable sources within the article.

Internet searches from many different sources are citing 1000 - 1200 rounds are used annually for training purposes and the number of armed agents is around 100,000. Using those estimated numbers we can figure 120 million rounds annually for training. With a 2 billion round stockpile that's enough training for 16 years. Maybe some of those figures are conservative about how many training rounds per agent, and the number of armed agents but there is still way more ammo than they could ever use. And why do some of these agencies need armed agents at all? NOAA? Department of Agriculture? Department of housing and urban development? IRS-CI? And many others...


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

They are preparing to kill us...


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

If the military uses 5.5 million rounds per month while we were at war a few years ago and federal agencies have purchased 2.11 billion rounds of ammo since 2012 then the government has enough ammo to fight a Middle East level action for 32 years stockpiled.

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has176250.000/has176250_0.HTM


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

They NEVER buy the amount they reserve. They lock the price in for cheap ammo so if they need to buy it is available at that price.
A couple of years ago congress got involved and told them they were buying too much ammo - because their voters were screaming bloody murder about the reserve purchase orders. The numbers released were well below what the purchase orders were asking to be held and congress dropped the issue. 

The amount of ammo sold to the government - at all levels is less than 5% of the ammo manufactured. We, the people are buying and stock-piling ammo and it is causing a sudo-shortage. Combine that fact with the fact that over the last four years more people are buying guns for the first time and buying more than one gun and as much ammo as they can get - at ANY price and you can understand why there is less ammo on the shelves than ever before. CCI, who makes most of the 22 RF ammo is about six months behind and will catch up with demand in the next year. To do this they invested in a new line for the 22 ammo and another line for primers. They are now producing 3 times as much 22 RF ammo than ever before.
The other lines are also running 24/7 and catching back up with demand. The ammo "shortage" will be gone in a year.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Two years ago they said we would be "caught up" within a year. 

I agree that most of the ammo shortage is from Americans stocking up but the real question is why does the average American feel the need to stock up now? We've been looking at major gun control laws the last 30 years (probably longer but I'm too young to remember).

I remember buying cans of 7.39 X 39 ammo and extra mags 25 years ago because we thought the government was going to take our high mag capacity guns away and ban "armor piercing" ammo from China at $2 for a 20 rnd box which drove the ammo to $6 a box. 

At this point in our preps the ammo shortage with it's overpriced ammo doesn't overly hurt us except for practice. 1200 rnds per main "battle" rifle and 500 per pistol so we only purchase to replace what we use. Our shortage is really the fact that we don't practice enough, in part because of ammo cost, the cash goes towards other preps at this point. first aid... the ability to cook with limited if any electricity,,, ect....

So why are we as Americans stocking up on ammo and weapons? Food and water makes much more sense.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

It is primarily the number of new gun owners. There are more people - almost 50% more people buying ammo now. 
CCI started the process of installing their new lines a year ago and they got them on-line and producing about six months ago. I hope production gets caught up before I run out... I am using a lot of 22 ammo for competition and practice.As of yet I have not paid more than $25 a brick. (500) (I only paid that much once - it is normally just under $20)


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## Riot (Feb 1, 2014)

Quietsurvivalist said:


> This comes up every 6 months or so
> 
> So from someone who actually did the research- This is a contract for OPTIONS to buy at a fixed price over a certain number of years. No where in any of the requests for purchase does it guarantee any purchases, it just locks a company to a fixed price for the contacted years
> 
> ...


Last year purchase we were told it was for practice and training. However they bought hollow point. Why use the most expensive rounds for target shooting if it's a bulk purchase to save money? Not sure about you but I don't practice with expense hollow point rounds.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

So why are we as Americans stocking up on ammo and weapons? Food and water makes much more sense.[/QUOTE]

2 reasons for me. I'd rather have them and maybe not need them than the other way around. I also like to have various caliber handguns and
long rifles to practice with and stay proficient with. I don't know what is going to be around after SHTF but I think for awhile the more common calibers will be around for
awhile and that is mainly what I store and practice with.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

They are preparing to repress the governments own citizens in order to remain in power. Prepare to be dominated.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

James m said:


> They are preparing to repress the governments own citizens in order to remain in power. Prepare to be dominated.


They don't have that many soldiers, . . . or that much ammo, . . . thank you.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

They are already in control.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

James m said:


> They are already in control.


There was a discussion in the office during lunch, yesterday. As usual, it was political in nature. I was doing my best to stay out of it and play spider solitaire on my damnable Verizon tablet, but when I heard someone say, "As long as we have the second amendment we won't see tyranny."

When I heard that, I slammed the tablet to the desk, took off my reading glasses, and sternly stated, "Bull ****. Do you even have a clue as to the meaning of _tyranny_? As far as the founding fathers would be concerned, we are living under tyranny and arbitrary rule, today. Our present state has been a long time in the making, and due to the incremental increase of it, you don't even recognize what is right before your eyes. The second amendment doesn't have the ability to prevent the nation from being blind and ignorant, and it can do nothing in and of itself. The nation has elected the lesser of two evils for so long that evil is in total power and we are too stupid to realize we have been played. Now, how is the second amendment going to fix that?"

I then went back to playing spider solitaire. After all, I was talking to a room of people who have all been voting for evil.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Liberty Rules! Freedom is necessary! Rights are owned by the individual and if the government does not protect them then it is time to feed the tree of liberty!


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> His explanation *does* make sense. He researched it and found that it was not a purchase order, but an agreement to hold a price for the coming years up to a certain amount of rounds, if needed.
> Your reaction to this was based solely on the *ASSUMPTION* that the government is causing ammunition shortages due to massive bulk buying. You aren't presenting any evidence to support that claim, you're just using it as a rebuttal. That isn't much of a case, if you ask me.
> 
> Thanks for looking deeper into that for us Q!


I did not make any assumptions. Millions of people believed the same thing I did.............that the federal government was involved in a massive ammo grab.

RPD had the best explanation I've seen so far.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

PaulS said:


> They NEVER buy the amount they reserve. They lock the price in for cheap ammo so if they need to buy it is available at that price.
> A couple of years ago congress got involved and told them they were buying too much ammo - because their voters were screaming bloody murder about the reserve purchase orders. The numbers released were well below what the purchase orders were asking to be held and congress dropped the issue.
> 
> The amount of ammo sold to the government - at all levels is less than 5% of the ammo manufactured. We, the people are buying and stock-piling ammo and it is causing a sudo-shortage. Combine that fact with the fact that over the last four years more people are buying guns for the first time and buying more than one gun and as much ammo as they can get - at ANY price and you can understand why there is less ammo on the shelves than ever before. CCI, who makes most of the 22 RF ammo is about six months behind and will catch up with demand in the next year. To do this they invested in a new line for the 22 ammo and another line for primers. They are now producing 3 times as much 22 RF ammo than ever before.
> The other lines are also running 24/7 and catching back up with demand. The ammo "shortage" will be gone in a year.


Excellent explanation, Paul. Seems to make perfect sense to me. At least we know that the ammo shortage is due to private citizens stockpiling the ammo, and not the feds.

It would also make sense that there is still a shortage of .22 LR, since that is the cheapest ammo to buy, and therefore the cheapest to use for target practice.

I know that I simply can't afford to take my AK or my 30-30 to the rifle range very often, simply because of the COST of the ammo, especially the 30-30.

I like it that we have a more well-armed citizenry than before, and that these "new" gun owners are taking the hijacking of our freedoms so seriously.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Preppers are buying up the 22lr


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> gad durn it rancher now you spilled the secret now I can't just say I'm going to slippys to sit on the porch sip bourbon and shoot the breeze anymore.


Not a problem we can go south of the border where there are no guns, we will have to drink tequila, is that OK?

*Rancher*


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

When i retire I'll get a job with DHS. I'll let you know what the real deal is.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

How do we know we can trust you?


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## Quietsurvivalist (Apr 26, 2015)

Riot said:


> Last year purchase we were told it was for practice and training. However they bought hollow point. Why use the most expensive rounds for target shooting if it's a bulk purchase to save money? Not sure about you but I don't practice with expense hollow point rounds.


OK, I have NEVER fired a ball round in my 23 years of wearing a badge

NEVER

You qual and practice with what you carry, not what is cheaper. Period. I burn a minimum of 1200 rds a year, all of it duty carry ammunition. And the lockers empty very quickly in qual months. Not mention duty ammo gets cycled out every qual as well.

Civil liability and ease of supply chain is the reason.

Way to many "experts" who dont know their butt from a hole in the ground post the very same thing every time this subject comes up.

And, again, read the contract, instead of the internet hype.

OH wait a minute, then you couldnt look like an uneducated troll..........


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

While I rarely look like an uneducated troll, I can see a need to practice with light loads. It reduces the chances of picking up a flinch and some people can't afford to shoot the same ammo that they carry to practice with.

I help new comers to guns learn the safety and shooting techniques that they need to become comfortable with their new guns. Most of these are from "Women on Target" classes where I RSO and help out. While these ladies are getting comfortable with their guns or looking for a gun that feels good to them they are shooting low recoil loads. We have the normal loads available so they can experience that but for most the reduced recoil and muzzle blast loads are better for them. As they get more comfortable with a particular gun they will have time to develop the muscles and technique to use the standard loads. There is no need to learn to shoot a 357 with full power loads when you can learn the basics and practice the skills to shoot accurately and consistently with 38 wadcutter loads.

I would not consider it practice for me to shoot 38 wadcutters in my 357 but I have been shooting it for 45 years. I am comfortable with it but there was a time - shortly after I started shooting that I had to go to 38 wadcutters and start over because I had developed a very severe flinch. I loaded three rounds randomly in the cylinder and fired at a target just 10 feet away until I could put all six rounds in a single ragged hole. I dry fired constantly at home and practiced pulling double action with a dime balanced on the front sight until it would not fall when I rapidly pulled the trigger six times. I had to work hard for a year to get to the point where I could comfortably shoot without flinching.

I agree that once you are comfortable with your gun and you are carrying it for defense that you should practice with the ammo you are going to have in an emergency. I shoot only one round out of my 357 - it is a 140 HP bullet that leaves the muzzle at nearly 1600 fps. By today's standards it is a 7% overload but it is the same round that I worked up many years ago when I was competing in "Hunter's Pistol Silhouette" when the SAAMI standard load was still 45000 psi. It has been lowered twice and the SAAMI standard is now 33000 psi. I never changed and my pistol is just fine at the higher standard. It is the most accurate round I have ever found ant is would be fine for hunting, plinking, target shooting, and defense. 

Don't even talk to me about the liability of using hand loads for defense - that is a non-starter from mythology and fear.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

Back when I had my own practice range, I used to take my AK-47 out back and blast away, just to let off some steam. :armata_PDT_36:


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## Quietsurvivalist (Apr 26, 2015)

My post wasn't pointed at you Paul

And there have been multiple lawsuits won against departments qual policies using other than carry ammo. 

And I really dont care what I qual with, I dont care if I hit the target or not and I clean all 3 courses of fire we have


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## luminaughty (Dec 16, 2014)

I believe the federal government thinks organizations such as dhs, irs, fbi, cia, nsa, tsa, batf, and so on will be more likely to follow unconstitutional orders than most in the military. At the very minimum the federal government probably thinks these organizations will have a higher percentage willing to aid foreign troops in any attempt to control the citizens. After all it seems many of these organizations already have a track record of fabricating evidence, using questionable informants, and changing the interpretation of laws and policies already in place.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

How many LEO ask why they are arresting someone? They get a warrant that says to pick up the person and they do it. 
They could come to my house tomorrow and arrest me for terrorism... Nobody would question it, a few that know me would say he's no terrorist! but then as fabricated evidence turned up - like the information I have on guns and how they work chemical combinations that might be explosive - even though I have no materials with which to make these thing people would readily accept that I was a terrorist. It would be in the news that I had plans for such and such bombs and for rocket launchers and a host of other things that I play with in my down time to relax.

I do have a rocket launch controller - it has six stations and it is for model rocket that are quite legal.

I also have my guns and all that ammo - and enough gun powder to ??? So it would be easy to make any one of us into a psycho-terrorist in the eyes of most of the American public. Who in their right mind would "play" with designing bombs or booby traps or designing things that most people hardly ever think about?


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

they are preparing to raid bin ladens grandmas underwear drawer.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

They are waiting for hell to come to them! I work with a LEO, told him if he ever comes for my guns, he'll be face down in the mud!! He took me serious as I was! Orders or no, I hope the mil and leo don't think they will push aside the Constitution.


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## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

Well, interesting thread for sure. I always find it odd where forums have so many people with extremely varying points of view when it comes to a "like minded site" (prepping). I would have to agree with Paul's last post where as government & press would quickly label each of us based on the forums we belong to and the likelihood that each of us have multiple weapons, reloading supplies and ammo. I would have never dreamed growing up that those assets would make me suspect. When I was growing up - what we call prepping today was just what we did in everyday living.

1895gunner


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## Quietsurvivalist (Apr 26, 2015)

luminaughty said:


> I believe the federal government thinks organizations such as dhs, irs, fbi, cia, nsa, tsa, batf, and so on will be more likely to follow unconstitutional orders than most in the military. At the very minimum the federal government probably thinks these organizations will have a higher percentage willing to aid foreign troops in any attempt to control the citizens. After all it seems many of these organizations already have a track record of fabricating evidence, using questionable informants, and changing the interpretation of laws and policies already in place.


Well, Ive been inside much longer than anyone else here is admitting

I think you and many others will be shocked at the percentages who dont agree. You would also be shocked at the number who are preppers.

It takes a small percentage to make the entire group look like morons. Those same percentages are the ones who want to be promoted because they are too lazy or incompetent, or usually both to do the job of the Journeyman.

So they sell out, self respect and soul to be a "Manager".

But under no circumstance believe because its the party line its being swallowed .


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

1895gunner said:


> Well, interesting thread for sure. I always find it odd where forums have so many people with extremely varying points of view when it comes to a "like minded site" (prepping). I would have to agree with Paul's last post where as government & press would quickly label each of us based on the forums we belong to and the likelihood that each of us have multiple weapons, reloading supplies and ammo. I would have never dreamed growing up that those assets would make me suspect. When I was growing up - what we call prepping today was just what we did in everyday living.
> 
> 1895gunner


Love your post, but what good would it do them? Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Japan knew we had boo-coo weapons in civilian hands. Are the feds thinking they will take us by storm......I highly freaking doubt that will happen. But some folks might think they are over powered by the feds and give up ship!


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

What happens when they start taking the guns one person at a time? Will anyone notice? Will anyone get the brains to resist? Will the population rebel?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

PaulS said:


> What happens when they start taking the guns one person at a time? Will anyone notice? Will anyone get the brains to resist? Will the population rebel?


Frog in pan.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Well, if I hear that they are arresting the folks I know I will be raising a stink so big they will have to kill me to shut me up.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I think most local PD's will not join in.
many are oath keepers.
I know many who are prepper's and see what is coming, further, they plan on staying with their families when the time comes. 
It will be the mindless composite pieces of the federal monolith that will violate the public, much as they do now.
They (DHS) are the twenty first century Waffen Schutzstaffel! and another alphabet has evolved into the Gestapo.
The secret service (SS) has under the emperor has turned into the SS (Schutzstaffel) of the 30's and 40's. 
Which agencies looks like the dreaded GRU? NKVD? KGB? Way too many agencies have modeled themselves after these butchers with federal approval.
Why does DHS pull spot check road blocks in the heartland? They are unlawful and unconstitutional. NO PROBABLE CAUSE! 
They are not even authorized to do so, since when did that stop the feds???


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