# Anti-vax movement listed by world health organization as a threat



## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

https://www.newsweek.com/world-heal...C1EUImrW0FPChq7IP3wwGp4uGfxltvG5jgmnj_kU9s0uU

From the Article:

The World Health Organization (WHO) has listed vaccine hesitancy-the delay in acceptance or refusal of vaccines despite their availability-as one of its top 10 health threats facing the world in 2019.

The phenomenon has taken hold in a number of countries around the world in recent times, and notably in the U.S. as well. Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that while coverage of most recommended vaccines remained relatively stable and high in 2017 for American children aged 19 to 35 months, the percentage who have received no vaccinations has quadrupled since 2001.

According to a recent study published in the journal PLOS ONE, increasing numbers of people in many U.S. states now hold anti-vaccination views.

"Since 2009, the number of 'philosophical-belief' vaccine non-medical exemptions has risen in 12 of the 18 states that currently allow this policy: Arkansas, Arizona, Idaho, Maine, Minnesota, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Utah," the PLOS ONE study authors wrote in their paper.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Many people have strong and varying beliefs on this topic. Should be fun! :icon_surprised:


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

WHO is a very progressive lot. Consider this always when considering any WHO statement or position. I believe like the CDC that many times politics weigh more in the objectives than actual science. Caveat emptor.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Like everything else, sometimes I'm for it, and sometimes I'm against it.

I never take the "free" flu shot. I get symptoms of the flu because of the shot, so why bother.

However, if there was a shot to make me invulnerable to the murder attempts by redheads, I'd buy that med with my last pennies!


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Like everything else, sometimes I'm for it, and sometimes I'm against it.
> 
> I never take the "free" flu shot. I get symptoms of the flu because of the shot, so why bother.
> 
> However, if there was a shot to make me invulnerable to the murder attempts by redheads, I'd buy that med with my last pennies!


Gingers are soulless. You can't trust them, but, oh, they can be fun!!


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

While I can see this being a legitimate concern in the U.S. given that so many unvaccinated illegal aliens enter the U.S. every year, the bigger problem for the WHO is that the slaves are not doing as they are commanded to do by their lefty elite betters....


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

If nothing else, read the letter...
https://www.theorganicprepper.com/association-of-american-physicians-and-surgeons-opposes-mandatory-vaccines/

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You can believe the world is flat but that don't make it any less close to round. You can listen to the nut cases and not get the shots but people are going to get some horrible results from it. I am old enough to have now a few people who's parents did get them the polio vac sad truly sad. 
My family has theirs so go a head don't get them get sick disfigured die. Have the heck at it . Good luck.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> You can believe the world is flat but that don't make it any less close to round. You can listen to the nut cases and not get the shots but people are going to get some horrible results from it. I am old enough to have now a few people who's parents did get them the polio vac sad truly sad.
> My family has theirs so go a head don't get them get sick disfigured die. Have the heck at it . Good luck.


Look, vaccinate yours if you want to. Then they will be safe from mine, right? Just don't be telling anyone else what to do. Mine is none of anyone else's business. Thank you.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> Look, vaccinate yours if you want to. Then they will be safe from mine, right? Just don't be telling anyone else what to do. Mine is none of anyone else's business. Thank you.


It is not that simple. No vaccine is 100% effective, the reason they have worked as well as they have is because those who don't develop an immunity are rarely exposed to the virus if vaccination rates are high enough. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids fine, but don't send them anywhere around mine. Maybe we could have an isolated area for all the antivaxers.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> Look, vaccinate yours if you want to. Then they will be safe from mine, right? Just don't be telling anyone else what to do. Mine is none of anyone else's business. Thank you.


 But when yours get sick you will be first in line screaming someone should have done some thimng. happens every time


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

jimb1972 said:


> It is not that simple. No vaccine is 100% effective, the reason they have worked as well as they have is because those who don't develop an immunity are rarely exposed to the virus if vaccination rates are high enough. If you choose not to vaccinate your kids fine, but don't send them anywhere around mine. Maybe we could have an isolated area for all the antivaxers.


Or maybe we could just brand them and put them in concentration camps? Maybe we could have big government force parents to inject poisonous substances into their children's bodies against their wills (you know, for the greater good?). Another great idea would be to put all the kids whose brains and bodies have been damaged from vaccinations into a special class at school where they cannot disturb the other students.....unless that already exists?


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> But when yours get sick you will be first in line screaming someone should have done some thimng. happens every time


I take responsibility for me and mine. Like I said you do what you feel is right for your kids and I will do what is right for mine. I don't need groupthink to make my decisions.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

As the sheep line up to the watering trough for whatever the goobers decide is best to put in the trough... drink up! 

Thats OK I'll drill my own well!


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## jmc (Mar 5, 2019)

There's definitely no shortage of unequivocable evidence that ( at least some ) vaccinations work.

Historical data on measles cases has an incredibly dramatic cliff edge at the time the vaccination was introduced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_vaccine

And we owe the extinction of small pox to a vaccination campaign as well.

So there are indisputable benefits to vaccination.

Still...I wonder to what extent vaccinations might also have negative side effects.

Allergies have skyrocketed as of late and allergies are the result of an inappropriate immune response. As far as I'm concerned vaccines are a suspect in my book for the rise in alergies.

So while the benefits of vaccines are indisputable, I sometimes wonder whether the cost side of the cost-benefit of vaccinations has been fully and honestly explored.


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## jmc (Mar 5, 2019)

The Vaccine Safety Commission is obviously a biased organization, and I seem to remember carefully reading the Nakayama paper [9] and questioning whether the results really do indicate that vaccines increase allergies (but it was a almost a decade ago now so I can't remember exactly what it was, some kind of selection bias? )

Anyway every organization is biased, and one can only read a bunch of different biases and try and balance them against each other. But here's their take on vaccines and allergies.

https://vaccinesafetycommission.org/pdfs/08-2015-Journal-Food-Allergies.pdf


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> Or maybe we could just brand them and put them in concentration camps? Maybe we could have big government force parents to inject poisonous substances into their children's bodies against their wills (you know, for the greater good?). Another great idea would be to put all the kids whose brains and bodies have been damaged from vaccinations into a special class at school where they cannot disturb the other students.....unless that already exists?


Too extreme, but how about anyone who has a child contract measles is charged with negligent homicide or attempted homicide depending on the outcome?


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

Yup...

Genetic sequencing science breakthrough just proved that measles "outbreaks" are caused by the measles vaccine
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-03-06-genetic-sequencing-science-breakthrough-just-proved-that-measles-outbreaks-are-caused-by-the-measles-vaccine.html

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> If you choose not to vaccinate your kids fine, but don't send them anywhere around mine. Maybe we could have an isolated area for all the antivaxers.


Are you suggesting that I have to limit my activities in order to make your children safe. Should we require that children with shots wear a dot on their head to show they are safe or are you advocating for non vaccinated children get a tattoo and carry a sign?

---------------------------------------------
Riddle me these 2 questions

How many Deaths or long term disabilities due to MEASLES the last 10 years?

How many Deaths or long term disabilities due to MEASLES SHOT in the last 10 years?

I do not CARE about worldwide numbers.. because bad sanitation in shit hole countries skyrocket all illnesses... hell diarrhea kills a ton of people in many countries while in the USA it is a minor inconvenience


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> Too extreme, but how about anyone who has a child contract measles is charged with negligent homicide or attempted homicide depending on the outcome?


another wonderful democratic idea.... lets just cut to the end and arrest all conservative home schooling Christians right now


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

A little more...

Roll Up Your Sleeves for Your Shots
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/03/bill-sardi/roll-up-your-sleeves-for-your-shots/

Peace,
Michael J.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Are you suggesting that I have to limit my activities in order to make your children safe. Should we require that children with shots wear a dot on their head to show they are safe or are you advocating for non vaccinated children get a tattoo and carry a sign?
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> Riddle me these 2 questions
> ...


How many died of smallpox? How many died of Polio? I could share the NIH numbers but I am sure you would dismiss them as government propaganda. Would you refuse a tetanus shot if you suffered a puncture wound? If you are a Marine you have had every one of these vaccines and then some, did you suffer any negative reaction? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain–Barré_syndrome https://www.additudemag.com/vaccines-addadhd-and-autism/


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> How many died of smallpox? How many died of Polio? I could share the NIH numbers but I am sure you would dismiss them as government propaganda. Would you refuse a tetanus shot if you suffered a puncture wound? If you are a Marine you have had every one of these vaccines and then some, did you suffer any negative reaction? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain–Barré_syndrome https://www.additudemag.com/vaccines-addadhd-and-autism/


Comparing vaccines of 50 some years ago to the slurry of concoctions they call vaccines today is like comparing apples to oranges.

And yes I would refuse the tetanus shot that is now combined with whooping cough. In fact I did refuse it and the nurse had a fit that she had to go and get a tetanus without whooping cough in it. They were not happy with me but ask me if I care!


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

I survived all my childhood vaccinations with no ill effects. 
I think a lot of this stems from TV personalities spouting out falsehoods and ignorant statements, and shepeele believing them because they're a TV personality, then there are the conspiracists adding their 2 cents.

As far as the rise in childhood allergies, I think parents are living to clean with all the antibacterial soaps, wipes, hand sanitizers etc. shielding their children from every possible grem, thus resulting in a weak immune system. I've not seen anything about a unproportionate rise in allergies and illnesses in the children of our military personnel. I would think if this whole vaccination thing was a real problem, we would see a larger rise here then in the private sector. 

It's said not to use a wood cutting board because it holds onto germs. I've been using one all my life, never ended up in the hospital from it. I'd wager I have had a touch of e coli or the like from my wooden cutting board a time or two, but having a strong immune system helps me fight off things like this. 

Many civilizations were brought to their knees from being exposed to none native illnesses they had no immunity to contracted from visitors or conquerors from far off countries.
Do people not know one of the tactics used to take this country from the Native Americans, handing out blankets contaminated with smallpox.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Isn't this alarming to anyone who thinks on their own? Even my children 30 years ago were not subject to this ridicules amount of vaccines.

Read here and then tell me your going to line right up for this ridicules amount of chemical slurry's for your children.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

hawgrider said:


> Isn't this alarming to anyone who thinks on their own? Even my children 30 years ago were not subject to this ridicules amount of vaccines.
> 
> Read here and then tell me your going to line right up for this ridicules amount of chemical slurry's for your children.
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html


Measels, mumps, rubella, smallpox, tetanus, whooping cough, petusis, polio, ....are you just dumb or stupid. Sorry for an insult.

I have not contracted any or all.

The swine coming across our border have these and TB too. Well SPox MIGHT be gone, I'm vacinated


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> Measels, mumps, rubella, smallpox, tetanus, whooping cough, petusis, polio, ....are you just dumb or stupid. Sorry for an insult.
> 
> I have not contracted any or all.
> 
> The swine coming across our border have these and TB too. Well SPox MIGHT be gone, I'm vacinated


How about we just shoot the asshats that are coming across the border? I will donate the ammo, and my children don't wind up zombies. Win/win?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

As you all already know, vaccines are not my thing. @hawgrider explained why. I shared what a former girlfriend/pharmaceutical doctor told me, as well. There is one vax I'll get and this is the reason why:
https://www.foxnews.com/health/oreg...n-medical-bill-after-57-day-hospital-stay-cdc

Thanks to @hawgrider, I know to ask for the shot with only the tetanus stuff.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Its a tough decision to get vaccinations for your loved ones. I had all mine as a kid, and I am 51. Nowadays their is a plethora of information nd misinformation, and government over reach..
Some people just fear what is being put into their kids is causing many diseases. Some illnesses are caused by vaccines.
So what do you do? You get educated..
And the antibacterial soaps etc etc. Damn it people, send your kids outside and let nature build up antibody's. We used to play outside, drink from garden hoses etc etc. Try that now a days, and the health Nazis will freak out.
To each his own.
And, the small pox blankets was chemical warfare, but not the first time a country sent diseases to the enemy. Catapulting diseased bodies to the enemy's happens many years before that.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Denton said:


> As you all already know, vaccines are not my thing. @hawgrider explained why. I shared what a former girlfriend/pharmaceutical doctor told me, as well. There is one vax I'll get and this is the reason why:
> https://www.foxnews.com/health/oreg...n-medical-bill-after-57-day-hospital-stay-cdc
> 
> Thanks to @hawgrider, I know to ask for the shot with only the tetanus stuff.


I wonder about this story. Tetanus typically comes from deeper wounds that are not easily cleaned. The bacteria needs an low oxygen environment to multiply. Cuts on the head are shallow by nature and due to the profusion of blood vessels in the scalp, tend to bleed profusely. It seems highly unlikely that the kid would have contracted tetanus from a cut on the head. I guess anything is possible, though.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> Measels, mumps, rubella, smallpox, tetanus, whooping cough, petusis, polio, ....are you just dumb or stupid. Sorry for an insult.
> 
> I have not contracted any or all.
> 
> The swine coming across our border have these and TB too. Well SPox MIGHT be gone, I'm vacinated


You didn't insult me! I think on my feet and draw my own conclusions based off my research not whats being shoved at me from TV.
Im almost 60 years old I don't need any vaccinations. if you want to join the agenda for letting them inject you with the medical money makers line right up and get them your choice. My choice is they can try my new brand of bubble gum called "Just blow me!"


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

hawgrider said:


> You didn't insult me! I think on my feet and draw my own conclusions based off my research not whats being shoved at me from TV.
> Im almost 60 years old I don't need any vaccinations. if you want to join the agenda for letting them inject you with the medical money makers line right up and get them your choice. My choice is they can try my new brand of bubble gum called "Just blow me!"


I keep a ready supply of the gum to hand out as well!!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> How many died of smallpox? How many died of Polio? I could share the NIH numbers but I am sure you would dismiss them as government propaganda. Would you refuse a tetanus shot if you suffered a puncture wound? If you are a Marine you have had every one of these vaccines and then some, did you suffer any negative reaction? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain–Barré_syndrome https://www.additudemag.com/vaccines-addadhd-and-autism/


FIRST - NOT all vaccines are BAD - but some are

SECOND -lets stick with Measles and not try to argue the boat load of stuff out there...

I do not have issues with polio, or tetanus.... I have issues with MMR and I have issue with anybody telling me I MUST have my kids vaccinated

AND suggesting that you and I had shots so it is ok.. logically is akin to saying we played russian roulette and lived so it is safe... or pointing to the vets that came back from Vietnam and suggesting it was all good

I am not going to debate every damn shot they have... lets focus on MMR and the illness in the USA

answer my 2 questions from before

How many Deaths or long term disabilities due to MEASLES the last 10 years?

How many Deaths or long term disabilities due to MEASLES SHOT in the last 10 years?


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## jmc (Mar 5, 2019)

Yes, the whole vax/anti-vax argument is a gross over-simplification.

There is certainly evidence that some vaccines work (and indeed the Nature news article said only 2% of measle outbreaks in Germany are caused by vaccines)

But what is a vaccination?

Answer: Something you inject directly into your bloodstream.

And if you inject something straight into your bloodstream...you better be damn careful about what it is.

The fortress-like mentality the vaccine industry and the government are adopting against the anti-vax movement is very disturbing.

The public has a fundamental right to scrutinize what is injected into their bloodstream and to hold those who inject them accountable for any harmful effects to their health that they cause.

THAT is the best way to enforce quality control on vaccinations.

Censoring all studies that are critical of vaccinations or the ingredients they contain is a recipe for declining vaccine quality and declining vaccine safety.

It really freaks me out that the U.K. government censors studies that are critical of vaccinations that get published on the internet.

https://johnmccone.com/2019/01/15/how-free-should-speech-be/


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

@jmc, they are injected into muscle. I get what you are saying, though.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Odd thing came to mind about our experience;

When our Son1 had childhood cancer, he had not been vaccinated with many of the "normal" vaccines of the time. Chicken Pox was one that I recall because during chemo he came down with Chicken Pox not once, not twice but 3 FREAKIN TIMES! 

He was quarantined in the hospital for something like 5 days and each time the Oncology Staff gave him something that "arrested" the Chicken Pox. So he was not immune and of course a few months later some kid came down with the Chicken Pox at school and Son1 got it again...and then again.

I wish I could find the hospital records to find out what it was. But it kinda blew our minds...plus when he was quarantined Mrs S or I had to stay with him in the Quarantine Unit of the Hospital. That was freaky.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> FIRST - NOT all vaccines are BAD - but some are
> 
> SECOND -lets stick with Measles and not try to argue the boat load of stuff out there...
> 
> ...


Lets be realistic, 1956-1960 averaged 450 Measles related deaths per year, that's just deaths not permanent damage/disability. You can't honestly use the last ten years because most people were vaccinated. If you adjust this for the increase in population the result if no one got vaccinated would be closer to 900 today, and thats just the fatal outcomes.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I just was at my doctor's office for a pre-surgery check-up. We discussed my vaccinations and lack of them. My doctor understood why I avoided some, and utilized others. For my personal condition, he backed the choices I had made. And I go to him a few times a years just for a once-over.

I don't think there is a good medical regimen in the global sense. You talk to your doctor, and you make good decisions.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> Lets be realistic, 1956-1960 averaged 450 Measles related deaths per year, that's just deaths not permanent damage/disability. You can't honestly use the last ten years because most people were vaccinated. If you adjust this for the increase in population the result if no one got vaccinated would be closer to 900 today, and thats just the fatal outcomes.


listen to me... most people are vaccinated so I can use CURRENT stats.... because most people will get the shot... you are arguing that ALL people should be forced to get the shot...

I am saying that if the sheep line up to let the pharm experiment with their kids... not all the people need to get the shot....

so lets debate today not 1960 and lets discuss MMR not all shots

adjusting the numbers to make it seems like nobody gets the shot is incorrect and inaccurate... I thought you wanted to discuss current facts and figures not skew them based on twisted number make your side look better


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> listen to me... most people are vaccinated so I can use CURRENT stats.... because most people will get the shot... you are arguing that ALL people should be forced to get the shot...
> 
> I am saying that if the sheep line up to let the pharm experiment with their kids... not all the people need to get the shot....
> 
> ...


Ok, so how many people died from the MMR vaccine? About 2 people in 1000 die from measles, not a huge number but as the number of unvaccinated people goes up the number of deaths and cases will go up as well. I am betting the number killed by the MMR vaccine is much lower. https://vaxopedia.org/2017/11/19/how-many-people-die-in-the-usa-every-year-from-being-vaccinated/


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> You can believe the world is flat but that don't make it any less close to round. You can listen to the nut cases and not get the shots but people are going to get some horrible results from it. I am old enough to have now a few people who's parents did get them the polio vac sad truly sad.
> My family has theirs so go a head don't get them get sick disfigured die. Have the heck at it . Good luck.


My thoughts exactly. I don't think the government has any business making any vaccines mandatory but it's pretty stupid to die from a disease when the cure is right there ready to be had.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> My thoughts exactly. I don't think the government has any business making any vaccines mandatory but it's pretty stupid to die from a disease when the cure is right there ready to be had.


 And at the same time spreading it to others. The BS the anti quote and come up with is just that . The money the government paid out was just to shut them up they had no science behind the claims . Just a pay day.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> And at the same time spreading it to others. The BS the anti quote and come up with is just that . The money the government paid out was just to shut them up they had no science behind the claims . Just a pay day.


It cracks me up when people assume the government is good when it is supportive of their arguments and are certain that it is corrupt and evil the rest of the time. Here is a hint: The government is lying to you ALL the time. They do NOT have your best interests at heart. If you allow them to mandate that they can inject one substance into your body by force, then they can inject any substances they want into your body by force. Get your head out of the sand. Or don't. Just keep your hand clean for the barcode....wouldn't want the site to get infected....


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> It cracks me up when people assume the government is good when it is supportive of their arguments and are certain that it is corrupt and evil the rest of the time. Here is a hint: The government is lying to you ALL the time. They do NOT have your best interests at heart. If you allow them to mandate that they can inject one substance into your body by force, then they can inject any substances they want into your body by force. Get your head out of the sand. Or don't. Just keep your hand clean for the barcode....wouldn't want the site to get infected....


 Travel and see the people that suffering and die from the things we have controlled. Work with a man that had his parents not been anti vax type he would never had suffered the life long effect of Polio . The Mandate is to attend public school . Don't get them don't go. I have one good test for stuff like this the Doc advising me to have them has them and so do his children and grandchildren. When I got my first anthrax vac. The senior medical office was right their getting his.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Travel and see the people that suffering and die from the things we have controlled. Work with a man that had his parents not been anti vax type he would never had suffered the life long effect of Polio . The Mandate is to attend public school . Don't get them don't go. I have one good test for stuff like this the Doc advising me to have them has them and so do his children and grandchildren. When I got my first anthrax vac. The senior medical office was right their getting his.


My sister is a physician. She will tell you that just because you graduated medical school, it does not mean you are wise or have common sense. Sometimes if just means that you test well. Look how many educated people raise their children to be liberals. That is one of the worst things you can do for a child, but you will see high-ranking and highly educated people doing it anyways. Just saying.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Travel and see the people that suffering and die from the things we have controlled. Work with a man that had his parents not been anti vax type he would never had suffered the life long effect of Polio . The Mandate is to attend public school . Don't get them don't go. I have one good test for stuff like this the Doc advising me to have them has them and so do his children and grandchildren. When I got my first anthrax vac. The senior medical office was right their getting his.


You're right. Doctors are smart. Peruse this site and see what some have to say. 
You won't be able to hear what Dr. Gore has to say, as he died from Yellow Fever vaccine.

https://www.learntherisk.org/doctors/


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Denton said:


> You're right. Doctors are smart. Peruse this site and see what some have to say.
> You won't be able to hear what Dr. Gore has to say, as he died from Yellow Fever vaccine.
> 
> https://www.learntherisk.org/doctors/


 But latter how many lived he would have died anyway. In many of these case they have no idea what they died from . Just easy to place blame . Remember the autism claims prove science lawsuits . turns out not one single bit of truth.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> But latter how many lived he would have died anyway. In many of these case they have no idea what they died from . Just easy to place blame . Remember the autism claims prove science lawsuits . turns out not one single bit of truth.


https://www.ageofautism.com/us-italian-courts-award-millions-for-vaccine-autism-cases.html


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Argument that MMR vaccine doesn't cause autism:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-mmr-vaccination-autism-controversy-260556


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Denton said:


> You're right. Doctors are smart. Peruse this site and see what some have to say.
> You won't be able to hear what Dr. Gore has to say, as he died from Yellow Fever vaccine.
> 
> https://www.learntherisk.org/doctors/


You don't die from organ failure in minutes, it takes days for toxins to build up enough to kill you.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

I can't help but feel this story is relevant to this topic.



> A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
> 
> Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."
> 
> ...


https://truthbook.com/stories/funny-god/the-drowning-man


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> I am betting the number killed by the MMR vaccine is much lower. https://vaxopedia.org/2017/11/19/how-many-people-die-in-the-usa-every-year-from-being-vaccinated/


and this is the problem - you are too damn lazy to actually do some real research - instead you find a post that backs your preconceived idea and post it.. in this case VAXOPEDIA!!!!!

*VAX oh F'ing Pedia... really???*

If you want to get your kid a shot wonderful.. nobody is saying not to do it... we are saying do not force us to risk our child....

AND if you get your way to force people to have their kids injected.... before you send the police out to kick down doors, handcuff parents at gun point, hold the little kids down with straps and force them to be injected... make sure the local government has stocked up on ammo and coffins!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The choice should be up to the family. 
With one caveat: if the child gets sick because a vaccine was withheld by the parents, those parents should be charged with reckless child endangerment. And prosecuted.

Oh, and keep your kids away from school and the playground where other kids are.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The choice should be up to the family.
> With one caveat: if the child gets sick because a vaccine was withheld by the parents, those parents should be charged with reckless child endangerment. And prosecuted.
> 
> Oh, and keep your kids away from school and the playground where other kids are.


If your Holy Vaccines are effective, you shouldn't need to worry that my kids will get your kids sick. How about we just stick with your first sentence: The choice should be up to the family.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> and this is the problem - you are too damn lazy to actually do some real research - instead you find a post that backs your preconceived idea and post it.. in this case VAXOPEDIA!!!!!
> 
> *VAX oh F'ing Pedia... really???*
> 
> ...


I have not seen you share one credible link to support your views so who's really lazy? I looked at about 20 sites and none of them support your views. The closest thing I could find was that the risks of the MMR-V vaccine carried a higher rate of risk.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> How about we just shoot the asshats that are coming across the border? I will donate the ammo, and my children don't wind up zombies. Win/win?


Wow!! So, you advocate murder of women and children? But, in true liberal fashion you want someone else to do the actual dirty work?

No, Skippy, don't worry about me, you have enough issues as is.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Here ya go. There are reported, not confirmed incidents with the MMR vaccine for the last 12 years. 72 deaths in 12 years, that are not confirmed as vaccine related. https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Wow!! So, you advocate murder of women and children? But, in true liberal fashion you want someone else to do the actual dirty work?
> 
> No, Skippy, don't worry about me, you have enough issues as is.


I think anybody that needs shooting can get shot. You can take your "in liberal fashion" and put it where you got that last vaccine injected.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I do think they vaccinate the babies for far too much--and too early. So I take the middle road. Vaccinate them yeah, but not so much so soon. Newborns who don't leave the house and their mama's breast don't need all that stuff in their tiny systems unless there's some legitimate reason and they're actually at risk somehow. 

Personally I don't go for flu shots, because I don't get sick all that often. But the grannies do get flu shots because they're far more susceptible to the kinds of complications that can occur. I allow my older kids (13 years and up) to decide for themselves with regard to flu shots...Their choice.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I wish I still had my military shot record. I'm curious as to what I was given.
Dengue fever, plague (that SOB hurt), cholera, typhus/typhoid, there were 8 or 10 in all before heading to Nam, and then again before you could get on the plane home.
That is in addition to the assembly line shots with the air guns processing into the Army.

I don't get flu shots, but yes to the shingles vaccine and yes to the pneumonia vaccine, both in the last two years. At the VA. They offered, I accepted.

Y'all can do what you want with your bodies. But please put money into a health savings account so I don't have to pay for you through my health insurance money.
In other words, if ya get sick from a preventable disease , don't be lookin' for handouts.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The choice should be up to the family.
> With one caveat: if the child gets sick because a vaccine was withheld by the parents, those parents should be charged with reckless child endangerment. And prosecuted.
> 
> Oh, and keep your kids away from school and the playground where other kids are.


Did you peruse the link I shared? Doctors are concerned with the vaccines of today.
You are right to avoid the flu shot, according to the pharm research doctor I dated told me years ago. She also warned me about the HPV vaccine. She was adamant about that one.

Anecdotal, I know, but my dive buddy had a healthy, normal baby son until the boy had a batch of shots. The next day, the boy was obviously different. Sure, you can say it was some sort of coincidence but my life's experience tells me there are very few coincidences.

Rather than being staunchly pro-vax, consider that there is a problem. Yes, the idea of vaccination is a good one. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the vaccines or the number of vaccines given together.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Denton said:


> Rather than being staunchly pro-vax, consider that there is a problem. Yes, the idea of vaccination is a good one. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the vaccines or the number of vaccines given together.


Oh no. That would be RATIONAL: to investigate and inquire further, rather than dig in the heels and take sides. What are you thinking????

I get the flu shot now because I have emphysema... and the flu can kill me. Used to be, I would rather get the flu. My risk assessment changed. Might be making me stupider... But I have likely already dropped below a threshold by which it will make any difference.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

StratMaster said:


> Oh no. That would be RATIONAL: to investigate and inquire further, rather than dig in the heels and take sides. What are you thinking????
> 
> I get the flu shot now because I have emphysema... and the flu can kill me. Used to be, I would rather get the flu. My risk assessment changed. Might be making me stupider... But I have likely already dropped below a threshold by which it will make any difference.


I hate you have emphysema. That is no joke. I hate that.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Denton said:


> I hate you have emphysema. That is no joke. I hate that.


Self inflicted I'm afraid, if we're being accountable. But thanks for your thoughts! And it's just the lead horse LOL! Heart arrhythmia is moving up on the turn, neurological disorder is vying in the 3rd lane, as the jocky's whip their steeds to the yet to be determined finish in the "nobody gets out alive" Kentucky Derby! I don't have to like it, but I accept our mortality as the price for this often wonderful life we have had. I'll kick and scream like everyone else on the way out, but I really have no right to complain. I lived to see the apex of human achievement (if you believe we are on the way down now) and grew up while the world was still relatively clean. The billions which came before us suffered in ways we never had to. In many ways, we lived the very best lives possible in the history of our species.


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

Kids got 11 vaccines in 1986 and 53 in 2017&#8230; why? The answer is all about Big Pharma profits
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-03...e-answer-is-all-about-big-pharma-profits.html

Why the vaccine industry REFUSES to conduct clinical trials using a genuine placebo control group
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-03...ls-using-a-genuine-placebo-control-group.html

Peace,
Michael J.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Michael_Js said:


> Kids got 11 vaccines in 1986 and 53 in 2017&#8230; why? The answer is all about Big Pharma profits
> https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-03...e-answer-is-all-about-big-pharma-profits.html
> 
> Why the vaccine industry REFUSES to conduct clinical trials using a genuine placebo control group
> ...


Post of the day ^^

::clapping::


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The choice should be up to the family. With one caveat: if the child gets sick because the parents *did not act they way I wanted them to to act* , those parents should be charged with reckless child endangerment, And prosecuted. *and then the children should be removed from the home and raised to be good little socialists who hate God, America, and the founding fathers*
> 
> Oh, and keep your kids away from school and the playground where other kids are.


Fix it for you - @rice paddy daddy


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The choice should be up to the family.
> With one caveat: if the child gets sick because a vaccine was withheld by the parents, those parents should be charged with reckless child endangerment. And prosecuted.
> 
> Oh, and keep your kids away from school and the playground where other kids are.


This is what you are really saying....

you do not have to have your kid vaccinated
but if you don't and my kids vaccine does not work
and my vaccinated kid gets sick
The government MUST punish YOU and YOUR children
Because my kids vaccine did not work 100%

reductio ad absurdum


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Fix it for you - @rice paddy daddy


Attempting to change someone else's words simply shows me your arrogance, selfishness, and total lack of manners.

Have a nice day.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

IMHO, children should be vaccinated when their immune system is mature enough to give them an immune response, and not cause complications. Don't give them many types of shots at once, space them out over a period of months, to let their immune system work.

What I'm talking about are things like: measeles, mumps, whooping cough, rubella, tetanus, polio....... That is those diseases that were major problems before vaccinations were available, and vaccines that are well tested and of low risk. I don't do flu vaccines, hpv, or Hep.

Why? Because we have global travel from $#!t hole countries that have little healthcare, porous borders with no screening for diseases, even among those that enter legally. That is compounded by the government relocating criminal aliens throughout the country, with no thought to the health consequences. How many children have been introduced to our schools that have TB? No vaccine for that ,but ALL children should be tested before admission.

Just my 2 cents worth....

P.S. I'm glad I'm old enough to have been given a smallpox vaccine. I'm sure there are still viable cultures stored by governments....


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> IMHO, children should be vaccinated when their immune system is mature enough to give them an immune response, and not cause complications. Don't give them many types of shots at once, space them out over a period of months, to let their immune system work.
> 
> What I'm talking about are things like: measeles, mumps, whooping cough, rubella, tetanus, polio....... That is those diseases that were major problems before vaccinations were available, and vaccines that are well tested and of low risk. I don't do flu vaccines, hpv, or Hep.
> 
> ...


A simple solution is CLOSE the freakin borders and build the wall !


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Attempting to change someone else's words simply shows me your arrogance, selfishness, and total lack of manners.
> 
> Have a nice day.


I was just helping you to clarify that you want to remove kids from their parents and have them raised by the government..

Was I wrong, you said....... "if the child gets sick because a vaccine was withheld by the parents, those parents should be charged with reckless child endangerment. And prosecuted."


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

hawgrider said:


> A simple solution is CLOSE the freakin borders and build the wall !


Not quite so simple....

All you need is 1 or 2 disease carriers to start things going.

Think of someone with two children who comes over in a plane ( say an unimmunized US citizen), then rides the subway in NYC, goes into a few supermarkets, attends some concerts and sporting events.....the kids go to school.....

I think you can see my point?


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

A touch more info...there's SO much out there!

Medical MYTHS: You've been lied to about the history of vaccines vs. mortality &#8230; Now learn what the dishonest vaccine establishment doesn't want you to know
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-03-19-the-history-of-vaccines-vs-mortality.html

Peace,
michael J.


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## Donkey (Mar 18, 2019)

Only idiots not getting vax will be the issue.


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

The more they research, the more they should be avoided...

Stunning: Vaccines cause 4 to 5 times WORSE outcomes for measles, scientific study reveals
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-03-20-vaccines-cause-4-to-5-times-worse-outcomes-for-measles.html

peace out,
Michael J.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Donkey said:


> Only idiots not getting vax will be the issue.


I disagree


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

Always more to post...

Congressman Dr. Mark Green raises alarm over CDC fraud and health dangers of vaccine ingredients
https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-03...nd-health-dangers-of-vaccine-ingredients.html

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

yup:

More proof that vaccines are bad for you: Getting vaccinated makes you MORE likely to infect others
https://medicine.news/2019-03-15-getting-vaccinated-makes-you-more-likely-to-infect-others.html

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Michael_Js said:


> yup:
> 
> More proof that vaccines are bad for you: Getting vaccinated makes you MORE likely to infect others
> https://medicine.news/2019-03-15-getting-vaccinated-makes-you-more-likely-to-infect-others.html
> ...


Chew on this:

"How contagious is it?

Measles is so contagious that 90 percent of unvaccinated people who come in contact with an infected person will get the virus, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The virus can linger in the air for up to two hours after an infected person coughs or sneezes. The virus can spread four days before and after symptoms appear. "

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2019/03/27/measles-outbreak-rockland-county-new-york-what-know/3286414002/

"These outbreaks are linked to travelers who brought measles back from other countries such as Israel and Ukraine, where large measles outbreaks are occurring. Make sure you are vaccinated against measles before traveling internationally."

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

What are the symptoms of measles?

Measles is a highly contagious respiratory disease that is serious for small children but is easily preventable with a vaccine. Symptoms usually appear 10 to 12 days after exposure.

The first symptoms of measles typically include:

High fever
Cough
Runny nose
Red, watery eyes

Two or three days after the first symptoms, tiny white spots may appear inside the mouth. Then comes a rash that usually begins as flat red spots on the face at the hairline and spread downward to the neck, trunk, arms, legs, and feet.

Serious complications from measles can include pneumonia or encephalitis (brain swelling), leading to blindness or deafness, and in some cases death.

"Every new case is a roll of the dice" that could lead to life-threatening complications, Day said.
How does measles spread?

The measles virus is transmitted through the air when an infected person sneezes or coughs.

It is extremely contagious - much more so than Ebola, tuberculosis or influenza. The virus can live and be passed to someone for up to two hours after an infected person has left the room.

The disease is so contagious that 90 percent of people who are not immune will get sick if they're exposed to the virus.
The importance of the measles vaccine

One dose of the MMR vaccine - which protects against measles, mumps and rubella - is 93 percent effective, and two doses are about 97 percent effective.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/measles-outbreak-rockland-county-new-york-state-of-emergency/


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> Chew on this:
> 
> "How contagious is it?
> 
> ...


My brother had measles when we were kids. I didn't get it, and neither did my parents. Our house was small.
I had mumps as a kid. Two times, actually. I know; they say you can't get it two times. They are wrong. We both lived.

I'm not against vaccines, but I do see there is a problem. Don't you? There's a problem. We know it and _they_ know it. My aforementioned friend who had a normal child until the vax knows it. My aforementioned doctor/pharm-reseaarcher-girlfriend knows it, assuming she is still alive. Such people have a tendancy to die prematurally.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't see the problem as vaccines per se, but the problem being Big Pharma don't give a rats azz about healthcare, just about lining their pockets with loot. They don't want cures, they want you on expensive medications, for life. Lots, but not all, of doctors are in on the gravy train too. A lot of good could be done, if greed was not the ONLY motivation.

Big business in general, has little to no concern for people nor America. After industries fouled their own nests here, that they knew they were crapping in, they fled the coop overseas where they are pooping more with impunity and cheap labor. That would include Big Pharma. I don't want my medicines to come from China/3rd world crap holes.

Nothing is going to get better, with the current puppets running the circus, that is the legislative branch of our Government.


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

check the list of poison in vaccines...are they necessary? Don't think so...
Have you *actually *ever read the labels/ingredients of what big pharma connected doctors put in you?

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Michael_Js said:


> check the list of poison in vaccines...are they necessary? Don't think so...
> Have you *actually *ever read the labels/ingredients of what big pharma connected doctors put in you?
> 
> Peace,
> Michael J.


I've had high blood pressure since junior high school, even though I exercise and eat well.

My doctor wanted to medicate me. I eat LOTS of red meat almost every day. So He checked my blood, and cholesterol and fat levels were WAY BELOW levels of concern. I still will eat as much bacon and sausage as I want. No meds for that....

He still wants me on BP meds, no way. I'll keep on eating well and exercising, BP is about the same it was in high school, "high" but NORMAL for me.

What is "in" medications, not much of what I want to ingest. I still will take doxy if I get bit by a tick, and get a tetanus shot every few years. I burned the crap out of my hand last fall, I used silvadine, I hope it did not come from China.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

While we are talking about what goes in our bodies, have a look at Big Agribusiness, and what you are eating.

Most of the corn and soy is GMO crap and has glyphosphate residues in it. The reason the apples and produce look so "perfect", at the "garden" that is the supermarket, is because they are grown with a slathering of pesticides and herbicides.

Does Big Agribusiness care? NOPE!!! As long as they rake in loot. And food prices are rising fast......

I need to go work on my orchard............I'll cut out or chew around any worms in my apples.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

If you listen to the mainstream news the world is going to end and you are going to die if you don't get the MMR vaccination shot.

FUNNY how the times change and so does the truth!

THE MEASLES COULDN'T KILL THE BRADY BUNCH




https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/71908/the-measles-couldnt-kill-the-brady.html


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

Big Pharma controls the media...There's NO profit in good health, only in sickness - short term and prolonged...doctors are in bed with big pharma...it's been proven over and over again. Look at the top executives in the 3-letter US health corporations: FDA, AMA, etc...they are run by big pharma executives...duh!!

Yes, doctors are useful and needed (yes, all the rest of the health staff too!). Just avoid the drugs they push...Yup, it's just tin foil hats, crushed up aluminum in your vaccines...nothing to see here. Enjoy your primordial poison cocktails...

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

It's a common symptom/greed with any big business. They killed our manufacturing base. The real scary thing about meds is lots are no longer made in USA. I know the Chi-Coms have no problem selling offal. I've taught chemistry and biochemistry so I have a good handle what should not be in a vaccine/medication. Some meds you are lucky killing the pathogen before the patient.

I still think vaccines have usefulness, but there is dangers associated with them. I avoid any influenza shots. And I live healthy so I also won't take hep or pappilloma vaccines as I'm not at risk.

In the 1950s they had bad batches of polio vaccine. I'm glad to be vaccinated for that, with the safe vaccine. I also caught the end of the smallpox vaccine. Although it's thought to be eliminated I suspect some governments may have a viable stash, and only older folks have been vaccinated/some immunity. Also farmers who have had cowpox.

I'm not certain how much immunity still lasts? I've had chickenpox twice (not shingles), my GF got shingles and I got the pox from her, even though I had it as a child.

I won't lump all doctors with Big Pharma as I've been treated by some wonderful men and women who care about the patient not $$$$


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