# Reference/Defense against snipers



## CWOLDOJAX

I'm old Navy so I will need some Army/USMC advice on this.
Is there a manual or reference I can read on dealing with snipers?

Two things merging together got me thinking:
1.) I watched the Purge movie and realized the possibility of snipers in an urban/suburban setting could be a real deal. 
So in SHTF or WROL snipers could be an issue.

2.) Mexican cartels are shooting at US across the border. ISIS is already here and I know they train snipers.

As a survivor without a group and possibly searching for resources... I fully intended to avoid snipers.


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Deploy a better sniper than the bad guys, use NIGHT VISION, and hope the bad guys don't have night vision also.


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## Jakthesoldier

Search "counter sniper operations"


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## Maine-Marine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-sniper_tactics


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## keith9365

Pretty much a battery of 155's to neutralize the threat. If you dont have that, dont look like a high value target. There are some things you cant prepare for. If there is someone out there with the mindset to stalk to a firing position and wait for you to walk outside or in front of a window you are pretty much screwed. I dont think there are many who could stalk to a firing position and wait for you unnoticed though.


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## ekim

keith9365 said:


> Pretty much a battery of 155's to neutralize the threat. If you dont have that, dont look like a high value target. There are some things you cant prepare for. If there is someone out there with the mindset to stalk to a firing position and wait for you to walk outside or in front of a window you are pretty much screwed. I dont think there are many who could stalk to a firing position and wait for you unnoticed though.


Probably a lot more than you / most would think, but then it only takes one to really mess up your day. Just think about how many hunters sneak up on wild game every year, kind of like a sniper!


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## duncan1371

Concealment is one of the most important aspects for a sniper. Said sniper typically needs to stalk and a good one doesn't need to much to conceal himself but if you can limit some of the terrain with which he has to work with or at least limit it to one sector of fire and observation you have a better shot. This is one of the hardest things to prepare for. Multiple rings if defense is your best bet.


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## AquaHull

In a WROL setting, a "Sniper" would only have to be 100 to 200 Yards from most rural homes to be effective.

I can see about 100 yards into the woods, from the woods I can see my yard from 200 yards away in the right spot.

That would make most "Locals" a possible Sniper, since they all have riffles for deer hunting. Even the wimmen.

One of my buddies from MGO has a .338 Lapua Bolt he custom loads for........
Another has a 300 RUM, a 300 WSM and the lowly .308 WIN

I'm old skool with 30/06 's


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## AquaHull

duncan1371 said:


> Concealment is one of the most important aspects for a sniper. Said sniper typically needs to stalk and a good one doesn't need to much to conceal himself but if you can limit some of the terrain with which he has to work with or at least limit it to one sector of fire and observation you have a better shot. This is one of the hardest things to prepare for. Multiple rings if defense is your best bet.


I wood(sic) need to log out several hundred oaks to get even a 200 yard clearing and then all a sniper wood need to do is move North or South 60 yards or so to conceal on the properties on either side of me.


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## duncan1371

I completely understand it is hard for that to be feasible to many I was just trying to give a realistic opinion. That is one of the few things those that live in states where you can watch your dog run away from home for weeks have a small advantage but it is also a disadvantage.


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## Slippy

I suspect that any properly motivated sniper could do his job in most places.

I said "most places"...which is why we employ;
The Beaz
View attachment 12386


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## Prepared One

Funny thing. I was just thinking of this situation after watching something last weekend on Snipers in the battle for Leningrad in WWII. Something I had not given much thought to. Not sure there is a fool proof plan. If he is good and motivated he will get you I guess. Best thing to do is stay off the radar as much as possible. Which, coincidentally enough, is my plan. At least in the beginning stages.


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## TacticalCanuck

Accurate long range shooting is a skill developed over time and a science. People thinking they can grab a scoped .338 and go kill from 2-300 yards with no practice are a special breed are they not!? Long range shooting is a developed skill. If you shot long range before then you will know how. Otherwise there will be a lot of wanna bes wasting ammo causing panic and giving up their positions faster than beads at Mardi Gras.


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## SecretPrepper

2 to 300 is not that complicated especially if you are not trying to win a match shoot. It is after that distance that more and more factors have to be compensated for. I am not a long distance shooter and can consistently score hits on target at 800. Adding any real distance to 800 and I am Off target more than on. I know that I am not a long distance shooter but I can shoot what some consider to be long distance. I say all of this because there are a lot of people like me. I have met them at many different ranges over the years. Most rifle hunters are deadly far beyond the max distance they set for themselves while hunting. They also tend to be good a slipping through the woods undetected. I do not believe that the majority of that crowd are the one you or I will ever have to worry about thankfully.


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## Hemi45

Unless you're sitting in a glass bottom boat in the middle of the ocean - someone can always sneak up on you. I believe in mitigation to a point but when it's your time ... it's your time.


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## Mad Trapper

Don't be a target.

Think like an animal being stalked. Hide, find cover. Ever hunt? Touch a deer?

Counter the enemy. You can snipe them if prepared. When they know they are hunted, that changes things a lot. Turn them into scared bunnies.

P.S. We had the best armored forces, when our men and women, used AND OWNED guns, hunted, almost every day. That has changed. 

We have sheeple that are complacent. Baa Baa Baa...........sheeple.

P.P.S. find an OLD woodsman, then learn a lot


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## AquaHull

Mad Trapper said:


> Don't be a target.
> 
> Think like an animal being stalked. Hide, find cover. Ever hunt? Touch a deer?
> 
> Counter the enemy. You can snipe them if prepared. When they know they are hunted, that changes things a lot. Turn them into scared bunnies.
> 
> P.S. We had the best armored forces, when our men and women, used AND OWNED guns, hunted, almost every day. That has changed.
> 
> We have sheeple that are complacent. Baa Baa Baa...........sheeple.
> 
> P.P.S. find an OLD woodsman, then learn a lot


I D K what is considered old, but I live in the forest. OK next to it. All a sniper needs to do is set up 200 yards away while I go out mowing the weeds, cleaning out gutters, washing the car etc.


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## Mad Trapper

AquaHull said:


> I D K what is considered old, but I live in the forest. OK next to it. All a sniper needs to do is set up 200 yards away while I go out mowing the weeds, cleaning out gutters, washing the car etc.


Well I'd consider SHTF at that point. Hope all the fields were mowed for no towelheads hiding there. I just fixed the tractor.

Point is moot if you are open and alone.

But I'd counter, given the oprertunitry, and I know where to set up. It could be 06, 308, or a .222. They will all hit an eyeball at 100.

SOB hiding will get you anyway. Find them first.


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## RevTracy

As some have said, sniping is a learned skill developed over many hours of practice. Very few people, other than retired or discharged military snipers, have that skill. However, many people who hunt on a regular basis are capable of making kill shots out to 300 yards. They will have difficulty getting out to sniping distances (800-2000 yards), but they could be a real threat in an urban setting. Personally I have made kill shots (deer) out to 300, but I would certainly not consider myself a distance shooter and nowhere near the level of a trained sniper. The bottom line, as some have said, is to be as low profile as possible and not become a target. Also, developing the skills necessary to spot threats at a distance would be helpful to some extent. However, a skilled sniper intent on taking someone out is a formidable foe.


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## 6811

The best way is to learn the ways of a sniper, then counter it. Know your area and set up tell tale markers. It's not fool proof but you have a chance against short range shooters.


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## GTGallop

Avoiding sniper fire is a lot like avoiding being struck by lightning.

Don't go out in a storm.
Don't stand up in a field.
Stay low.
Keep covered.
Move quick.


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## Stick

I have clear fields of fire for hundreds of (over a mile in one) yards in all directions but one, and the Dog pretty much has that covered. Any shot would by necessity have to be pretty long, but still, I'd be a sittin duck. I'm counting on the Dog and a first shot miss. Or a clean kill, hehehe. If I know where the sniper is, I can keep his head down with a .22 pistol out to a couple hundred yards. I practice regularly at unknown but very long ranges (I need a range finder) with appropriate calibers...there's not much cover, and I can't run very well, so I'm making my stand here. Fortunately, no one ever comes by here for weeks and months at a time, so when someone does drive up the road it's a very big deal, Dog gets all agitated and bent and I usually have a few minutes notice. They don't see me until they are right on top. Haven't seen anyone since late May...there will be a few during hunting season, and then again in spring, looking for sheds.


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## Medic33

there are alot of thing out there that can help bring down a sniper -basic infantry tactic manuals ect.
but as a sniper 
the things that frocked me up the most was when they screened -used smoke terrane ect.
it doesn't do me any good with a super maga blaster that can tag someone on the moon if i can't see and identify them.
i can also tell you that sometime just the old fashin bum rush works too present so many targets that they can shoot and shoot but they just don't stop -you only have so many rounds before you have to reload.
the hardest thing is locating the SOB usually it takes a couple shots from them to figure it out at that time the freak is yours even if you are an average shot and have something availible that can take it. 
so after the first shot take cover and wait -time is your friend- eventually the sniper will get impatient and make a mistake. find the guy and then figure out what you need to do to eliminate it -maybe a simple as setting the building on fire or something.


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## Medic33

and yes slippy dogs suck
but they don't live long when emoloyed in that capacity 
i use to keep a vz61 scorpion on top of my butt pack just for dogs.


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## PaulS

Snipers are virtually impossible to counter. They choose their spot with stealth, conceal their position, and fire when they have a good shot and the possibility of a follow up shot.
Sometimes you can use IR or UV to detect them and sometimes you can't - if they are really good you won't see them on IR or UV. Dogs can find them but are easy to stop, although they run the risk of discovery.
There is no defense that will protect you if you have to go outside to tend crops or animals or to get to other buildings. Tunnels can get you from one building to another or even around your property but if you don't know there is a sniper or even if you do but don't know where he is then you are forced to remain hidden.
A sniper can remain in position for a long time but you should be set up to remain indoors for six months or more. A sniper will only make as many shots from one location as he feels he can without discovery. His worse nightmare is an advance from multiple directions by many adversaries. I like the idea of a large pack of bear dogs say 8 or ten released to find him.


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## NotTooProudToHide

I'll leave the specifics to those that know a lot more than I do but I think in most situations in WROL/SHTF your best defense is to be aware of your surroundings. Honestly there aren't going to be many trained snipers out there but there could be a lot of people who can shoot accurately at long ranges and who have money to blow on good systems.


***EDIT***

I'm more concerned about the Tyler Smith's///Sons of Anarchy types that would attempt home invasions to get your food/water than I would be about snipers


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## PaulS

In Eastern Europe folks were mostly confined to a city while the war played out. It was a hell on Earth and there were snipers in some of the groups that targeted people moving from one location to another. It was uncommon to have a group attack another group at their home. Since that is history, I try to use it to plan for myself. Being out of the city I stand a better chance of no conflict but it is still a real threat in my mind. And a sniper could have a real advantage without dogs that are trained. Bear dogs are a good alternative because they naturally separate and attack from different directions. It works on bears, big cats and snipers. If the sniper uses a tree then he will be out of reach but not free from discovery.


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## AquaHull

***EDIT***

I'm more concerned about the Tyler Smith's///Sons of Anarchy types that would attempt home invasions to get your food/water than I would be about snipers[/QUOTE]

There are people "Out There" that are training for that all the while saying that they are here to protect.


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## Low_crawl

Pretty good reference. Ultimate Sniper: Updated & Expanded Edition by Major John Plaster | 9781581604948 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble

To answer your question, if a trained sniper with a half decent scoped rifle is set up in a hide with the intent to take you out there is nothing you can do short of barricading yourself inside and never coming out.


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## Farmboyc

You will never even know they are there unless they miss their first shot.


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## Medic33

Low_crawl said:


> Pretty good reference. Ultimate Sniper: Updated & Expanded Edition by Major John Plaster | 9781581604948 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble
> 
> To answer your question, if a trained sniper with a half decent scoped rifle is set up in a hide with the intent to take you out there is nothing you can do short of barricading yourself inside and never coming out.


I will disagree you got to want to kill that bastage with a vengeance-most snipers that stick around are either lost amateurs or have a death wish, so give their wish. the hardest part is figuring out wear they are. once that is know the rest is gravy.


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## Slippy

Farmboyc said:


> You will never even know they are there unless they miss their first shot.


And even then, a good sniper can most likely adjust and make the second shot count...before most people figure it out. Especially if your working in the garden or something like that and are tired and slow to react. Its usually not everyday that someone is taking shots at you so reaction is critical if the first shot misses.


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## PaulS

That's what the dogs are for! they will let you know that you have an unwanted guest whether he's in a ghillie suit or just blue jeans.


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## Farmboyc

No too sure I believe a dog would alert you at 200+ yards. Any that we have ever had didn't.


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## PaulS

Bear dogs roam a long ways when given the freedom or lessons to do so. They are not your typical house pets.


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## CWOLDOJAX

A long, long time ago I queried this forum about bridges since I have many to cross just to get home from my job downtown.

My thought is that certain bridges could be guarded by snipers but the neighborhoods may not.
This is affecting my primary and alternate route home in case the city core turns into civil unrest intro to the "Purge".
As you know, protestors in Ferguson are/were blocking the freeway/interstate. In JAX, if they block a few of the bridges, there could be a violent mess `cuz the city core is surrounded by country folks and soccer moms and I just see them playing nice as they hold family members (commuters) hostage on the bridges. 

A sniper changes that dramatically. Sooo I am gonna re-think my get-home routes away from bridges surrounded by buildings. 

I like being the grey-man in both scenarios.

I have a primary and an alternate route... I need a tertiary one now.


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