# Verdict



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

I just saw that a verdict has been reach. Will be announced soon. 

Could be interesting. 

My prediction:

I’ll bet the jury felt pressure and will return the max. 

And on appeal it will be overturned.


----------



## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Interesting....two pretty smart guys.



shipwreckedcrew

@shipwreckedcrew
·
5m


It won’t get that far. The Sixth Circuit will reverse if the Minn Courts do not.
Quote Tweet



Jack Posobiec

@JackPosobiec
· 1h
DERSHOWITZ: What Maxine Waters did, coupled with the judge refusing to sequester the jury, will lead to the US Supreme Court ultimately reversing any conviction for Derek Chauvin 

And this....

In an unusual and shocking move, Joe Biden openly endorsed one side in the highly politicized Derek Chauvin case.
“I know George, I’m just going to answer that one question on George and his death. I have come to know George’s family,” Biden stated. “I’m praying the verdict is the right verdict. It’s, it’s overwhelming in my view.”
Speaking with reporters at the White House on Tuesday, Biden endorsed the family of George Floyd and appeared to firmly align with their agenda.
Critics said Biden’s political statements may influence jurors and illegally change the outcome of Chauvin’s trial.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Popcorn is ready.


----------



## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

I think Not Guilty based off of reading this daily, Law of Self Defense
But, Jurors were/are scared in my opinion..
We shall see.


----------



## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Denton said:


> Popcorn is ready.


Ever seen the nightime aerial view of Tokyo burning when incendiary bombs were dropped on them?

Picture that x 10....imo.


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

I'm loading up a truckload of fire extinguishers and headed to _The Land of 10,000 Petersons_.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Guilty of all charges.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

There will now be celebratory rioting, looting and burning.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

There is no way this doesn't get overturned on appeal.
Manslaughter maybe, but none of this ever came close to meeting the definitions for murder.

So dumb.
Justice is dead; murdered by the mob.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> There is no way this doesn't get overturned on appeal.
> Manslaughter maybe, but none of this ever came close to meeting the definitions for murder.
> 
> So dumb.
> Justice is dead; murdered by the mob.











How is second-degree murder different from third-degree charges in Minnesota?


Charges were upgraded to second-degree murder Wednesday against former Minneapolis police Officer Derek Chauvin, who is accused of keeping his knee on George Floyd for more than eight minutes on May 25.




www.google.com


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I can see the verdict overturned on appeal, with a new trial to follow.
With the same results.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> How is second-degree murder different from third-degree charges in Minnesota?
> 
> 
> Charges were upgraded to second-degree murder Wednesday against former Minneapolis police Officer Derek Chauvin, who is accused of keeping his knee on George Floyd for more than eight minutes on May 25.
> ...


Can you elaborate on the reason for providing this link?
I provided the state's definitions for all charges in another thread. I know what they are.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I honestly did not follow the trial.
I’m at the age and stage where something that far outside my perimeter, like more than a thousand miles outside, I just don’t let bother me.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I can see the verdict overturned on appeal, with a new trial to follow.
> With the same results.


Perhaps I'm not familiar with this... but how could an appeals court overturn a jury's conviction... and then the accused face a new trial for the same crime?
That would violate the 7th amendment.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Perhaps I'm not familiar with this... but how could an appeals court overturn a jury's conviction... and then the accused face a new trial for the same crime?
> That would violate the 7th amendment.


Let me rephrase that.
I can see a decision that the cop did not receive a fair trial due to Maxine Waters, and perhaps other influences, and a new trial ordered.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I can see the jury being afraid of being targeted also.


----------



## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Burn the country down.
Yahoo.


rice paddy daddy said:


> Let me rephrase that.
> I can see a decision that the cop did not receive a fair trial due to Maxine Waters, and perhaps other influences, and a new trial ordered.


...and Turnip brain in my WH.


----------



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

I’m now of the opinion that the appeal court won’t touch this. I’d be surprised I’d the overturned the verdict.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I agree.
The cop is toast, the mob rules. 
Society as I knew it 60 years ago is dead.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Don't make the black people, LGBTQ people, muslime people, Brown People, Trans People etc, mad. It will not end well for you white devils.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Can you elaborate on the reason for providing this link?
> I provided the state's definitions for all charges in another thread. I know what they are.





> A person also can be charged if a death is caused without intent “while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection.


I can see them using that angle. That's what attorneys do; they twist and warp to get their way.
Also, I trust Keith Ellison about as far as I can throw him.

The case would have been perfect for a 3rd degree murder conviction. Chauvin was dead-wrong and he knew that. Still, 2nd degree murder is a very long stretch.

@rice paddy daddy is correct about an appeal. The appellate court doesn't retry the case but rules on whether the trial was proper. Were the court toss this one out and have another trial, it would end in the same way. The next jury will also fear for their lives and for the destruction of cities.

From now on, even righteous shooting involving black folks will ignite "peaceful protests" and justice won't be served, anymore.


----------



## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

My question is- 1 person died, why 3 different guilty verdicts for 1 death. 

Its like throwing mud on the wall and seeing what sticks In appeals.

The 2 murder raps just to appease BLM? Then goes down to the 2nd degree manslaughter, which may be justified. 

I don’t think he got a fair trial. It could have been a black cop kneeling on a white guys neck. “I can’t breath” means you have an enough airway to speak and are not suffocating.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

2020 Convert said:


> My question is- 1 person died, why 3 different guilty verdicts for 1 death.
> 
> Its like throwing mud on the wall and seeing what sticks In appeals.
> 
> ...


I agree. That's called _stacking charges _and I'm totally against that. 

As far as not being able to breathe yet are saying "I can't breathe," breathing can be restricted while you can still talk. That one can still talk doesn't mean one isn't going to die from lack of oxygen.


----------



## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

The cop used excessive force and didn’t follow police protocols. A guy died because of it. Of course he is getting convicted of murder. One can argue the details and politics of it all, but the cop deserves what is coming.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

theprincipal said:


> The cop used excessive force and didn’t follow police protocols. A guy died because of it. Of course he is getting convicted of murder. One can argue the details and politics of it all, but the cop deserves what is coming.


Two questions that are being pondered are, was 2nd degree murder excessive and, were the jury members influenced by the violent mob, including Mad Maxine.


----------



## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

Denton said:


> Two questions that are being pondered are, was 2nd degree murder excessive and, were the jury members influenced by the violent mob, including Mad Maxine.


The second degree murder (unintentional) charge essentially says that he commit assault and someone died. Considering that his knee to the neck was excessive and outside of the accepted procedures of his position, it makes sense to me that he would be charged with that.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

theprincipal said:


> The second degree murder (unintentional) charge essentially says that he commit assault and someone died. Considering that his knee to the neck was excessive and outside of the accepted procedures of his position, it makes sense to me that he would be charged with that.


There is more to the elements than simply _unintentional._ On the other hand, 3rd degree murder IAW Minnesota law fits, precisely.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Denton is quite correct about the mob mentality and future trials..
Any trial like this in the future will be highly influenced by it. Would YOU want to be on such a jury? What if "they" found out your name and where you lived?
Would a juror be frightened enough to say "guilty" even if he or she had reasonable doubt?


----------



## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

Right now, I am happy I had good friends.
My kid throughout HS went back and forth between being a chef or being a cop. 
I was friends with several on the city police force and asked them to talk to him about it. They all basically told him not to specialize in it in college. 
These people included a guy that retired(because they mandated he live in the city to be promoted), he retired, got a job with the Sherrif as head of court security, retook a job with the city to be head of homicide, and retired again when the mayor wouldn't even interview him for chief. He is now head of the state police commission.
Another who was a division head, and recently got turned down by the same mayor to fill the chiefs job. Another who is a legal immigrant from The Dominican Republic and is a school resource officer in one of the roughest HS. (I always told him he should have his All-American wrestling certificate lower, where the kids could see it).
I am so happy my kid listened to my contacts and didn’t become a street cop after today’s verdict. He is a CO, so it is in line of what he wanted to do.

You are not going to see better cops anymore, only dregs, they have tied their hands.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Denton is quite correct about the mob mentality and future trials..
> Any trial like this in the future will be highly influenced by it. Would YOU want to be on such a jury? What if "they" found out your name and where you lived?
> Would a juror be frightened enough to say "guilty" even if he or she had reasonable doubt?


You just made a good point. Even if departments hunted rioters and looters with sentry dogs, the jury members will still be at risk.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

theprincipal said:


> The cop used excessive force and didn’t follow police protocols. A guy died because of it. Of course he is getting convicted of murder. One can argue the details and politics of it all, but the cop deserves what is coming.


Did you watch or read any of the testimony from the trial? What Minneapolis "police protocols" did Chauvin not follow? Minneapolis trained police to use the knee to the neck. As far as "used excessive force," Chauvin's LT say that Chauvin did not have his knee on GF's neck for any inappropriate amount of time, and an expert from the trial not only said that deadly force was not used, but that the police acted appropriately given the situation.

A national use-of-force expert testified on Tuesday that Officer Derek Chauvin DID NOT use deadly force on George Floyd during his arrest. Barry Brood, the national use of force expert, also testified why Minneapolis police were justified in keeping George Floyd face down, handcuffed outside Cup Foods. He says it was safer for the police and the suspect.

Floyds resisting arrest necessitating being restrained was also a reason that the paramedics "were not allowed" to treat him sooner.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Regardless how it has played out, our nation is going to suffer big time. Homicide is already up 33% in many dem controlled cities, crime will continue to rise, the police will be less invested and less effective and our liberties will continue to be violated at an increasing rate.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Did you watch or read any of the testimony from the trial? What Minneapolis "police protocols" did Chauvin not follow? Minneapolis trained police to use the knee to the neck. As far as "used excessive force," Chauvin's LT say that Chauvin did not have his knee on GF's neck for any inappropriate amount of time, and an expert from the trial not only said that deadly force was not used, but that the police acted appropriately given the situation.
> 
> A national use-of-force expert testified on Tuesday that Officer Derek Chauvin DID NOT use deadly force on George Floyd during his arrest. Barry Brood, the national use of force expert, also testified why Minneapolis police were justified in keeping George Floyd face down, handcuffed outside Cup Foods. He says it was safer for the police and the suspect.


Think about it. Chauvin had his knee on the addict's neck until the addict died. 
The criminal was cuffed behind his back and even an onion could see that he was in crisis.

Holding Floyd down by keeping a knee to the neck was convenient until it wasn't.


----------



## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

I hate to sound pessimistic....I really (really do)
I'm 66...
I'm glad i witnessed the glory days.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The REAL victims here are the innocent people who have to live in these crime ridden cities.
Without cops who care, after they all walk away.


----------



## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

Denton said:


> There is more to the elements than simply _unintentional._ On the other hand, 3rd degree murder IAW Minnesota law fits, precisely.


Of course there are more elements than “unintentional”. I figured that I would skip the full legal brief and call it what everyone else is calling it.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Regardless how it has played out, our nation is going to suffer big time. Homicide is already up 33% in many dem controlled cities, crime will continue to rise, the police will be less invested and less effective and our liberties will continue to be violated at an increasing rate.


Right on the mark!
The false claim of White supremacy is being used to divide and conquer this nation. 
Alleged racism is being used as a weapon to kill an innocent society.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> Think about it. Chauvin had his knee on the addict's neck until the addict died.
> The criminal was cuffed behind his back and even an onion could see that he was in crisis.
> 
> Holding Floyd down by keeping a knee to the neck was convenient until it wasn't.


I have thought about it. I even watch the video introduced by the defense that showed that Chauvin only had his knee on GF's neck for a very short amount of time. Vast majority of the time his knee was on GF's shoulder and back. Did you see this video?


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> I have thought about it. I even watch the video introduced by the defense that showed that Chauvin only had his knee on GF's neck for a very short amount of time. Vast majority of the time his knee was on GF's shoulder and back. Did you see this video?


Yup. I saw the video.


----------



## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

RedLion said:


> Did you watch or read any of the testimony from the trial? What Minneapolis "police protocols" did Chauvin not follow? Minneapolis trained police to use the knee to the neck. As far as "used excessive force," Chauvin's LT say that Chauvin did not have his knee on GF's neck for any inappropriate amount of time, and an expert from the trial not only said that deadly force was not used, but that the police acted appropriately given the situation.
> 
> A national use-of-force expert testified on Tuesday that Officer Derek Chauvin DID NOT use deadly force on George Floyd during his arrest. Barry Brood, the national use of force expert, also testified why Minneapolis police were justified in keeping George Floyd face down, handcuffed outside Cup Foods. He says it was safer for the police and the suspect.
> 
> Floyds resisting arrest necessitating being restrained was also a reason that the paramedics "were not allowed" to treat him sooner.


Excessive force means more force than is necessary. Do you need to have a knee to the neck of a guy handcuffed behind his back for 9.5 minutes, while he wasn’t fighting back? Absolutely not. Once you go beyond what is necessary, you’re responsible for what happens due to the excess. In this case, a guy died.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

From the time that I worked in juvenile corrections, I would have checked on GF more frequently and likely sought medical aid sooner, but Chauvin followed Minneapolis police protocol. Paramedics are not allowed to treat those detained if they are resisting, or if there is other outside threat present. There was another outside threat assessed as being present, protestors video taping and agitating during GF"s arrest.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> Yup. I saw the video.


So you then disagree with the expert that I quoted and Chauvin's own LT?


----------



## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

The verdict that was reached is what I expected. 

Not surprising at all.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

theprincipal said:


> Excessive force means more force than is necessary. Do you need to have a knee to the neck of a guy handcuffed behind his back for 9.5 minutes, while he wasn’t fighting back? Absolutely not. Once you go beyond what is necessary, you’re responsible for what happens due to the excess. In this case, a guy died.


For starters stop the lie that there was a knee to the neck for 9 minutes. Proven a mistruth during the trial. Knee to neck for a much shorter time. Knee to the shoulder and back a vast majority of the time.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I not only judge by what I would have done but also by what other former L.E. personnel (friends of mine) would have done.
To a man, none of us would have handled it that way. A couple of friends said that they would have kicked out Chauvin's teeth and then sat Floyd up against the car.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> From the time that I worked in juvenile corrections, I would have checked on GF more frequently and likely sought medical aid sooner, but Chauvin followed Minneapolis police protocol. Paramedics are not allowed to treat those detained if they are resisting, or if there is other outside threat present. There was another outside threat assessed as being present, protestors video taping and agitating during GF"s arrest.


OK?


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Ranger710Tango said:


> The verdict that was reached is what I expected.
> 
> Not surprising at all.


I am not surprised as well. Disappointed to say the least. Just means that I carry a rifle with me in my vehicle all of the time in addition to carrying a sidearm on me 24/7. Also means that I can expect no fair hearing or justice if I am forced into a situation where I have to use deadly force if my life or that of my daughters is in danger. Some may say that you might as well go all in.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> OK?


It is policy of not only the Minneapolis PD, but others across the nation that if there is an outside threat, such as protestors, agitators or otherwise people creating an unsafe situation for police during an arrest/and or restraint, that others such as paramedics are kept out of the situation to help ensure their safety. This delays assessment and treatment.
This is a large reason that GF was not treated sooner.


----------



## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

RedLion said:


> For starters stop the lie that there was a knee to the neck for 9 minutes. Proven a mistruth during the trial. Knee to neck for a much shorter time. Knee to the shoulder and back a vast majority of the time.


Splitting hairs by trying to count the minutes his knee was on his neck doesn’t change the reality that a suspect, handcuffed behind his back, was being pinned in a manner that caused him to die..... I can assure you that if I had you in the same position, I could keep you there without touching your neck or killing you.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

theprincipal said:


> Splitting hairs by trying to count the minutes his knee was on his neck doesn’t change the reality that a suspect, handcuffed behind his back, was being pinned in a manner that caused him to die..... I can assure you that if I had you in the same position, I could keep you there without touching your neck or killing you.


No confronting you about perpetuating a lie. I guess I should take your "expert" opinion versus the actual video and the testimony of an expert then? How many times have you tried to restrain an aggressive person? When I was younger and during training I got to play the aggressive teen that staff did a forced room entry on with shield and restraints. Even 5 staff had a tough time getting a hold of me in a confined space. This included a staff that weighed over 400lbs.


----------



## ErickthePutz (Jan 10, 2021)

Denton said:


> I not only judge by what I would have done but also by what other former L.E. personnel (friends of mine) would have done.
> To a man, none of us would have handled it that way. A couple of friends said that they would have kicked out Chauvin's teeth and then sat Floyd up against the car.


Oh utter BS! They no more would have “kicked out chauvins teeth” than they would turn down their paycheck.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I am not holding my breath on this, but....

Alan Dershowitz: We certainly can’t be confident that it didn’t. We have to assume that the jury heard what Maxine Waters said, what Sharpton said, what Crump said, what others said. I think jurors knew that if they came out with a verdict, other than murder, the top charge there would be violence on the streets. Every mayor was prepared for that. Every police chief was prepared for that. Why do we think the jury didn’t know that and didn’t allow it to enter its consideration? After all, the jurors were potential targets. Their names were released. If they had come to “the wrong verdict” they might be expected to be treated the way one of the witnesses was treated… painted in blood. I think the jurors learned that if they didn’t come up with the right verdict there businesses would suffer, their schools, their neighborhoods… That’s why I believe the case may very well be reversed.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> It is policy of not only the Minneapolis PD, but others across the nation that if there is an outside threat, such as protestors, agitators or otherwise people creating an unsafe situation for police during an arrest/and or restraint, that others such as paramedics are kept out of the situation to help ensure their safety. This delays assessment and treatment.
> This is a large reason that GF was not treated sooner.


I would agree if there weren't other cops on the scene and the upset civilians at the scene had been aggressive. There were and they weren't. The civilians were worried about Floyd's life. Seems they were right. I am certainly not saying Chauvin should have conducted himself according to what the civilians were saying; I'm saying that Chauvin should have considered Floyd's well-being, considering Floyd was in his custody.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

ErickthePutz said:


> Oh utter BS! They no more would have “kicked out chauvins teeth” than they would turn down their paycheck.


Says you. Some people put life over a paycheck. Furthermore, you are assuming they would have lost their jobs.

Thanks for your opinion, though. For what little it is worth, Putz.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> No confronting you about perpetuating a lie. I guess I should take your "expert" opinion versus the actual video and the testimony of an expert then? How many times have you tried to restrain an aggressive person? When I was younger and during training I got to play the aggressive teen that staff did a forced room entry on with shield and restraints. Even 5 staff had a tough time getting a hold of me in a confined space. This included a staff that weighed over 400lbs.


Yet, the drug-addicted criminal was already cuffed and obviously in crisis.


----------



## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Was it ever discussed why they kept him in the street for so long ? What were the police waiting on ?


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Ranger710Tango said:


> Was it ever discussed why they kept him in the street for so long ? What were the police waiting on ?


EMT's and a van.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

This is only going to further the flow of officers leaving the force and increase response times.

Straight from the mouth of an officer friend of mine:
"_*We no longer quickly respond to 3rd party calls(I saw somebody smoking crack across the street) in hopes that when we finally show up, the accused criminal is long gone.*_"
"*I have a hiding spot that I park my cruiser in until I get a call to respond. We don't patrol anymore. I sit there and watch Netflix or play my XBOX remotely on my phone. If it's a life or death situation, we get there as fast as possible, but the rest? Nah... It's just not worth it anymore.*"
I replied, "*If you had told me that two years ago, I would have said you're a terrible cop, but I kinda understand that now.*"
His response, "*I feel like a terrible cop. All I ever wanted to do since I was a kid was put bad guys in jail. Now, none of us are in a hurry to respond. We can't win no matter what.*"

That was yesterday, before the verdict.
Today following the verdict, from his wife, he no longer wants to put on the uniform. He's praying for another opportunity to come along that pays the same and doesn't put him out on the street to deal with this. He has young kids to take care of, and his dream of being a police officer feels shattered.

Hurl whatever arrows you want to at him since he isn't here to defend himself, but I saw his face when he said the words "I feel like a terrible cop." It's crushing him and he doesn't see a better way yet.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> This is only going to further the flow of officers leaving the force and increase response times.
> 
> Straight from the mouth of an officer friend of mine:
> "_*We no longer quickly respond to 3rd party calls(I saw somebody smoking crack across the street) in hopes that when we finally show up, the accused criminal is long gone.*_"
> ...


Your friend is a normal, human being. What else is he to do? Sure the good people who need him suffer but he has to think about his own family.
I would suggest he look at getting an A&P. Work on aircraft. Make more money. Live a better and safer life.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Here's another question for all the smart people, here.
Regardless of he did or didn't violate decent codes or morality, did Chauvin get a fair and impartial trial?


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Denton said:


> Here's another question for all the smart people, here.
> Regardless of he did or didn't violate decent codes or morality, did Chauvin get a fair and impartial trial?


And that is going to become the pivotal question in the days and weeks to come.


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Here's another question for all the smart people here:

Have you seen/heard ALL the evidence, or just what the media has reported on?


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Here's another question for all the smart people here:
> 
> Have you seen/heard ALL the evidence, or just what the media has reported on?


Oh; I know this one!
Even if you watched the entire trial, you didn't get to see all the evidence. You saw all the evidence that was _allowed_ to be presented.


----------



## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Denton said:


> Here's another question for all the smart people, here.
> Regardless of he did or didn't violate decent codes or morality, did Chauvin get a fair and impartial trial?


In my opinion, most likely not.


----------



## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

Did you know you can smell trains? Or at least the railroad.


----------



## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Here's another question for all the smart people here:
> 
> Have you seen/heard ALL the evidence, or just what the media has reported on?


Absolutely not, I didn’t even see/hear all the evidence that the media reported.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)




----------



## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

If Chauvin is granted a new trial on appeal could he opt for a bench trial ?


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Just wanted to balance out this conversation with a white victim of the dead, black victim.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Ranger710Tango said:


> If Chauvin is granted a new trial on appeal could he opt for a bench trial ?


Sure, but would the judge be any less afraid?


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

With the jury not being sequestered, and all of the open calls to violence we heard from BLM and their supporters, not to mention the mayor or Minneapolis and Maxine "Raging" Waters, I can't see how anyone could consider this trial to be impartial, even if we assume the jurors held no preconceived notions going in.


----------



## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Denton said:


> View attachment 113521


I did know about this. Not all the details but some. Can’t remember who reported on it.


----------



## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

Denton said:


> Sure, but would the judge be any less afraid?


Maybe, maybe not. I’d also want the trial moved out of the city....

I think he’d fair better with a bench trial, but that’s just my opinion.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> Here's another question for all the smart people, here.
> Regardless of he did or didn't violate decent codes or morality, did Chauvin get a fair and impartial trial?


I do not think Chauvin got a fair and impartial trial and I believe the jury was threatened, scared, racially or politically motivated.


----------



## Alteredstate (Jul 7, 2016)

Tried, and found guilty in the kangaroo court of public opinion.

What say ye.

Thumbs down.


----------



## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

RedLion said:


> No confronting you about perpetuating a lie. I guess I should take your "expert" opinion versus the actual video and the testimony of an expert then? How many times have you tried to restrain an aggressive person? When I was younger and during training I got to play the aggressive teen that staff did a forced room entry on with shield and restraints. Even 5 staff had a tough time getting a hold of me in a confined space. This included a staff that weighed over 400lbs.


Floyd didn’t look like he was resisting much when pinned to the ground for an extended period of time, stomach down, with his hands cuffed behind his back. We can both brainstorm a bunch of different scenarios, but I would prefer to discuss what actually happened..... If the force used and technique was not aligned with the threat, it would be deemed both excessive and not aligning with protocol. Once the officer goes over these thresholds and is acting out of bounds, he becomes accountable for his actions; In this case death.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Justice died yesterday along with this republic and the constitution. It is now mob rule. You are now going to be judged by socialist media and their agenda. Who are we going to get to police our streets or be our jurists? Police recruitment is plummeting across the nation and will you answer your next jury summons?

Whether the cop was guilty or not is irrelevant to me. The more important issue is the socialist and the MSM determined the outcome. A bat shit crazy congresswoman and even the Puppet in the white house came out and swayed the outcome. He was not judged by his peers. The man did not receive a fair trial. 

The socialists have managed to idolize a known criminal, drug addict, and thug, while at the same time dismantled our justice system and rendered the constitution irrelevant. Socialism won big yesterday.

Get ready people, the train is on the track and heading straight for us and there is nothing we can do to stop it now.


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

theprincipal said:


> The cop used excessive force and didn’t follow police protocols. A guy died because of it. Of course he is getting convicted of murder. One can argue the details and politics of it all, but the cop deserves what is coming.


Not even close to being accurate or true. But.....as William Munny said..Deserves got nothing to do with it....


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

theprincipal said:


> The second degree murder (unintentional) charge essentially says that he commit assault and someone died. Considering that his knee to the neck was excessive and outside of the accepted procedures of his position, it makes sense to me that he would be charged with that.


Again vapidly untrue.


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The REAL victims here are the innocent people who have to live in these crime ridden cities.
> Without cops who care, after they all walk away.


Innocent of what? Did they vote these politicians in? Well, I guess with the immense corruption we saw in the last election there is a reasonable chance that they DID NOT vote them in, but they can still vote with their feet. Good people should not live in bad places.


----------



## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

stevekozak said:


> Again vapidly untrue.


Being a blowhard doesn’t give you instant credibility... You should back up your opinion with some amount of reason or evidence.


----------



## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

theprincipal said:


> Being a blowhard doesn’t give you instant credibility... You should back up your opinion with some amount of reason or evidence.


Who are you again?


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Denton said:


> Here's another question for all the smart people, here.
> Regardless of he did or didn't violate decent codes or morality, did Chauvin get a fair and impartial trial?


I can answer that one. Here is my voluminous answer: 

No.


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

theprincipal said:


> Being a blowhard doesn’t give you instant credibility... You should back up your opinion with some amount of reason or evidence.


I have seen how you respond to evidence. Just more asinine horseshit. I hope your day is great and you get a chance to witness true justice in action.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> Innocent of what? Did they vote these politicians in? Well, I guess with the immense corruption we saw in the last election there is a reasonable chance that they DID NOT vote them in, but they can still vote with their feet. Good people should not live in bad places.


Innocent people who live in the inner city do not have the choice to “vote with their feet.” The vast majority of them are too poor to do so.
Everyone is not as fortunate as you.


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Innocent people who live in the inner city do not have the choice to “vote with their feet.” The vast majority of them are too poor to do so.
> Everyone is not as fortunate as you.


No disrespect intended, but while God has smiled down on me, it is my efforts that he has smiled upon. I am fortunate, yes, but not in the way of saying "you are lucky". I made my luck. I came from a VERY poor family growing up. I had great parents and they taught me to get out in the world and do things to get where I wanted to be, and to not make excuses for why I didn't get there. I have worked very hard for all that I have. I don't accept that these inner city people have no choice. It is simply untrue. There were many people that came to this country over the last two centuries with literally nothing more than the clothes on their backs who, through hard work and sheer determination, made something of themselves and provided for their families. The "too poor to do so" is utter horseshit. Even more especially these days when the .gov is pouring money out to people. There are probably some poor old widow women who who would find it nearly impossible to change their circumstances at their juncture in life, but for the rest of them it is a choice. It may be a very hard choice that making the right decision would involve vast amounts of planning and WORK, but it is a choice none-the-less. Again, no disrespect to you or your opinions meant here.


----------



## theprincipal (Mar 18, 2021)

stevekozak said:


> I have seen how you respond to evidence. Just more asinine horseshit. I hope your day is great and you get a chance to witness true justice in action.


I see how you respond too; For some reason you think that your tough guy tone holds any weight on the inter-webs. It only makes you look myopic and cowardly.... You have a good day, as well.


----------



## 65mustang (Apr 4, 2020)

Robie said:


> Interesting....two pretty smart guys.
> 
> shipwreckedcrew
> @shipwreckedcrew
> ...


Don't bet on the "Supreme Court" to do a damned thing. Chauvin was doomed from the get-go. How a person can be convicted of 3 different counts of killing one man is confusing. IMO Floyd was a waste of oxygen and the world is a better place without the drug addicted felon.


----------



## Ranger710Tango (Feb 27, 2021)

The a federal a government could always put Mr Chauvin on trial. He’s pretty much doomed IMO unless God intervenes.


----------



## Megamom134 (Jan 30, 2021)

Crime, not cops, is by far the largest threat to black lives Just saying. Here lies the real problem.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Megamom134 said:


> Crime, not cops, is by far the largest threat to black lives Just saying. Here lies the real problem.


And if you want the problem to only get worse, defund the police.

We saw a major step in a dangerous direction yesterday. Validity given to a mob mentality, and a lurch toward labeling all cops as bad actors. The "ACAB" acronym isn't just a simple slogan. It's a mantra to march to on the way to their goal.
What is their goal?
Depends on which "they" you're referring to.
To the general rabble of Antifa and BLM, their goal is better policing via less violent police activity. The common basement dwellers that venture out to these marches think they are fighting for actual change in policing.
To the power brokers that drive the Antifa and BLM movements, they want something else entirely. They want a new police force. One controlled by a federal entity. One that is uniform and omnipresent. One that is easier to control as a unit, and not fragmented across thousands and thousands of departments with widely varying protocols.
For lack of a better example, they want a Gestapo. They want a heavy-handed force that will secure their agenda, round up the state's enemies, and not ask pesky questions about rights or legality.
The useful idiots will serve their purpose once they've accomplished the goal of "dismantling the institutions". They fail to see that the new institutions they will give birth to will be so much worse.

History is a brutal bitch of a teacher.
Too few ever learn from her lessons.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> I can answer that one. Here is my voluminous answer:
> 
> No.


Damn, son; anyone ever tell you that you type too much?


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> Here's another question for all the smart people, here.
> Regardless of he did or didn't violate decent codes or morality, did Chauvin get a fair and impartial trial?


Murder in any degree as convicted? I don't see it.

Consider:

Chauvin knew the criminal and had full knowledge of his drug use and violent criminal past. He had worked with him in an off-duty job and likely did not like him, but intent to murder was not proven in the trial.
Did he take it easy on him? Likely not but intent to murder... likely not.
The suspect was at the time in the process of being arrested as a known criminal for attempting to pass illegal currency possession of illegal drugs, and suspicion of swallowing said illegal drugs, as well as fighting being arrested.
It could be argued he overdosed on fentanyl after swallowing his stash as he was in the process of being arrested.
He was a big guy and resisting arrest.
I am an above-average guy in size myself in both in height and weight. Regardless of my skin color if I behaved in the same manner with a known violent criminal past, I would expect it to end badly. Murdered? Absolutely not, one can and should conduct themselves in an intelligent manner while dealing with the LEO.
This criminal is now being called a martyr and hero for racial injustice. ****** is being prosecuted in the name of a cancel culture. I have been on this board a long time and posted over and over my stance on current affairs of the global agenda and the road to biblical prophesy being unfolded no longer in the darkness of night, but in clear view, while we watch. I have been consistent without waiver what I see, while a watch and research.

Know this.., we do not have a racial war being engaged in, rather it is a culture war being manipulated for gain by certain individuals of a certain financial class. The reality is... it is ****** who is under siege for his beliefs and culture.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Murder in any degree as convicted? I don't see it.
> 
> Consider:
> 
> ...



FYI .... A slang word starting with W for the caucasian race was edited by the forum.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> Murder in any degree as convicted? I don't see it.
> 
> Consider:
> 
> ...


This link should help.
Intent isn't necessarily needed for 2nd and 3rd degree murder in Minnesota.






Minneapolis Murder Attorney | Ryan Garry - MN Criminal Lawyer


There are three degrees of murder. They are governed by Minnesota Statutes: 609.185 (first degree murder), 609.19 (second degree murder), and 609.195 (third degree murder). These offenses are complicated and the stakes are extremely high. You need a skilled Minneapolis Murder Attorney to...




ryangarry.com




.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> This link should help.
> Intent isn't necessarily needed for 2nd and 3rd degree murder in Minnesota.
> 
> 
> ...



It doesn't help. The suspect was resisting arrest while committing multiple crimes right before and during the arrest. He was in the act of presenting himself as a threat considering his known criminal history by at least one arresting officer.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> I would agree if there weren't other cops on the scene and the upset civilians at the scene had been aggressive. There were and they weren't. The civilians were worried about Floyd's life. Seems they were right. I am certainly not saying Chauvin should have conducted himself according to what the civilians were saying; I'm saying that Chauvin should have considered Floyd's well-being, considering Floyd was in his custody.


It does not matter what your view or my view of how others at the scene presented and how the scene was assessed. Only matters how the police assessed it.


----------



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> Yet, the drug-addicted criminal was already cuffed and obviously in crisis.


And your point?


----------



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> And if you want the problem to only get worse, defund the police.
> 
> We saw a major step in a dangerous direction yesterday. Validity given to a mob mentality, and a lurch toward labeling all cops as bad actors. The "ACAB" acronym isn't just a simple slogan. It's a mantra to march to on the way to their goal.
> What is their goal?
> ...


If memory services Obama mentioned a national police force but it never came about. I think he may have changed tactics and control the various forces via regulations.


----------



## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

I guess the score on this one is 1 to 1.
A cop was taken off the street and so was a no good, society sucking thug.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm good with De-Funding the Poe-Leece in inner-city urban areas. 

Change my mind...


----------



## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

I like their idea of sending in well-intentioned, weaponless social workers.

Here ya go ladies...the city is all yours.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Robie said:


> I like their idea of sending in well-intentioned, weaponless social workers.
> 
> Here ya go ladies...the city is all yours.


Yeah, I've been ready to watch that when they brought it up. It could prove quite interesting.

I think @Kauboy was correct in an earlier assessment. 

Obummer said it clearly.


----------



## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

Robie said:


> I like their idea of sending in well-intentioned, weaponless social workers.
> 
> Here ya go ladies...the city is all yours.


Until they start getting raped or killed. Then some leftist minds will change.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> It doesn't help. The suspect was resisting arrest while committing multiple crimes right before and during the arrest. He was in the act of presenting himself as a threat considering his known criminal history by at least one arresting officer.


Yes, I understand those valid points but what my point is that there are intentional and unintentional murders of 2nd and 3rd degree in that state. Also, his criminal background and attempts at resisting arrest are moot points once he is cuffed and in the custody of the cops.


Slippy said:


> I'm good with De-Funding the Poe-Leece in inner-city urban areas.
> 
> Change my mind...


You are good with it but the vast majority of residents in those areas want MORE policing. Those are the people who aren't represented by the anti-police, anti-order idiots.
Democrat policies have created the inner-city problems, and those problems hurt the people. Defunding the police will only hurt the good citizens.
Defund the Democrat politicians. That'll help get things back on track.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> And your point?


do I have to spell this out, again?
Floyd was in police custody and clearly in a state of crisis. 
Once in custody, the policeman is responsible for the person's safety.
This was an egregious failure to do so.

I thought my point was clear the first time.


----------



## Megamom134 (Jan 30, 2021)

I am old enough to remember when cops really practiced brutality and taking a slow elevator ride with a policeman was dangerous. Remember NY cops being under control of the mob. I suppose it still goes on but people don't realize how much better it is. I remember real racism also. Now they are creating it again against white people. Still racism. We are sliding back 60 years.Police Murder White Man, Tony Timpa, Same Way As George Floyd!! (Video) This happened to a white man also. What happened to the outrage.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Megamom134 said:


> I am old enough to remember when cops really practiced brutality and taking a slow elevator ride with a policeman was dangerous. Remember NY cops being under control of the mob. I suppose it still goes on but people don't realize how much better it is. I remember real racism also. Now they are creating it again against white people. Still racism. We are sliding back 60 years.Police Murder White Man, Tony Timpa, Same Way As George Floyd!! (Video) This happened to a white man also. What happened to the outrage.


You white devils amuse me. Nobody care if Whi-Tee get zapped...


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Megamom134 said:


> I am old enough to remember when cops really practiced brutality and taking a slow elevator ride with a policeman was dangerous. Remember NY cops being under control of the mob. I suppose it still goes on but people don't realize how much better it is. I remember real racism also. Now they are creating it again against white people. Still racism. We are sliding back 60 years.Police Murder White Man, Tony Timpa, Same Way As George Floyd!! (Video) This happened to a white man also. What happened to the outrage.


I'm pushing 70 and this has been going on for as long as I can remember. It didn't matter if you were black, white, tan, orange or polka-dotted. If you got aggressive with the cops, you paid dearly for that. The old Franklin County jail had several quirks, the elevator taking you up would sometimes jerk to a stop causing the prisoners to fall and get all bloodied up. Then there was the stone stairs. Many a prisoner sort of fell down the stairs and needed medical attention afterwards. I wasn't the sharpest tack in the box but I did learn early on that if you kept you mouth shut those accidents didn't happen to you.


----------



## Megamom134 (Jan 30, 2021)

We had a 12 year old black boy shot to death by a 18 year old black boy in my state, haven't seen BLM or Maxine Waters show up there yet


----------

