# How long is too long?



## [email protected] (Aug 7, 2016)

I live in an apartment on the suburban side of the DFW metroplex. While I'm not downtown or anything, my area will certainly feel any kind of disruption. I have enough food and water stashed to get me through 2 months or so. 

I'd like some people's insights and opinions on these thoughts...

I can barricade myself in and rely on my provisions for awhile. However after a few days of no food deliveries to the stores etc people are going to start getting desperate. I plan on staying inside as much as I can and keeping myself barricaded and low key. Less attention the better. I can fight off a few raiders but eventually mobs will get more organized and more violent. I think I'll run out of "safety time" before I'll run out of food and water to be honest.

Now at this point of the shtf scenario if I'm having to leave my home base I'm assuming it's atleast within Week 2, I'm willing to bet it may not be safe to be driving at this point. Anyone that has a movable vehicle with gas is an easy target seen for miles around. That being said, I'm going with the assumption I'm having to travel on foot.

With the shtf happening, and most of the surrounding city dwellers already having wandered through most directions leaving the metroplex, there won't be any food left to scavenge. Most stores and homes will have been picked clean. Another dilemma I face... I have an INCH bag. If I have to leave my place, I"m looking at it that i'm leaving for good. If I get to come back home to my life, sweet! But if it's bad enough where I'm eating my emergency rations, I'm probably never gonna see my ceiling again once I leave. 

So with my INCH bag I can't blend in as easy as the grey man. But this is week 2 so Idk how many people may still be walking that's not geared up as best they can. So now I think I have to avoid major hwyways and interstates (or atleast walk parallel with them but from a distance). I don't want to be an easy lone target walking by myself on a hwyway or major road where I can be spotted from miles. Also I don't know how many other "refugees" will be on the hwyways and how desperate they'll be.

I might deem it only safe enough to travel by night until I get far enough away from the surrounding cities. Necessity may dictate that I have to hide out during the day and only scurry from shadow to shadow by night until I lose any predatory gangs of marauders that are still roaming the cities. Another reason I keep a infared lens for my flashlight in my INCH bag so as not to broadcast my location when traveling at night. 

Most people count on their bag to get them thru 72 hours. I think 72 hours falls into "best case scenario". I'm trying to gear up more for when things are "worst case scenario" and how am I gonna deal with it... I could very easily spend the first 48 hours just ducking detection as I get out of the dfw area and that's with no time to forage or scavenge food or fish or set snares or whatever. That's just getting out of suburbia undetected. That's not dedicating any time to fishing or securing food for yourself.


Another factor to think about is that while big cities are eventual death traps, smaller towns will close off their "borders" eventually. I can stay barricaded in my homefor a month but when its time to leave due to violence or resources running out, smaller towns will have already been tapped to the brink. They'll close off their borders and roads. They won't not be physically capable of taking on more stragglers thus only to have to turn them away (most likely to starvation or murder) by force. So to wait too long in the safety on my own home could screw me long term by not securing a spot in a small town. 


If I leave my place too early, then I become just one of 1000s of refugees that are trodding along. I either get mugged, robbed or killed for my backpack and gear. If I don't have my backpack and gear then I become just as desperate as everyone else. 
I have the food and water to last longer than most at my place. But if I wait too long I can get fall victim to larger gangs going door to door. Waiting too long means every house store etc has been looted like locusts gon wild. It also means opening up chances of being targeted walking by yourself such as falling behind the pack if the main mob has already passed a few days ago. 

But while there's somewhat safety in numbers, I also think one can go stealth mode and get to where they need to while avoiding large crowds. It's also easier to forage for oneself. Dandelions grow everywhere! Especially if it's been a couple weeks since anyone cared about mowing their lawn. So that's easy nutrients you can pick up on the go by yourself.

Anyways, I'd like to hear back about people's thoughts and opinions on this. Any side solutions or different perspectives I missed will be appreciated.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Welcome to the forum. Just so you know it is customary to first post in the introduction area so all the good folks here can get to know you a little bit.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> I live in an apartment on the suburban side of the DFW metroplex.
> 
> Anyways, I'd like to hear back about people's thoughts and opinions on this. Any side solutions or different perspectives I missed will be appreciated.


I'm glad you took the time to run the scenario in your head, but I promise you, if you live in a suburban/urban area your primary concern is going to be to get away from people as soon as you possibly can. You can bug out and come back if it was nothing, but once you are stuck, you are stuck.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Do you had a destination in mind? Someplace where you can get away from the masses and survive. Have a cache or two of supplies pre positioned? Hard to rely solely on what is strapped to your back. Depending on how early you recognize SHTF and what it is very early bug out could be advantageous I would think the first twelve hours would be the most civil.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Hey synthelll,

So you live in the suburban area of the DFW metroplex ......... that could be east , north, further north, south, west, further west, even further west, and then start all over again when you hit Ft. Worth. Nonetheless you live in a metromess.

You do not speak of what type of event you are prepping for? Being prepared is not a one size fits all, nor a one even fits all. Too many variables inclusive of logistics.

You do mention food, an inch bag, and a flashlight. However, you do not mention any type of self defense or weapon. So my step #1 advice is this:

If you are not armed and prepared to defend you, yours and what you own ........ You better give your soul to God, because your ass is theirs.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

eazy enough guy ... you have 2 months of supplies to stay independent - plan on using every bit of a month's worth staying VERY local - after the looting starts after a few days and the absolute violence follows - you'll see for yourself traipsing around isn't safe ...

.... work with your fellow apartment building residents and possibly some of the surrounding neighbors establishing some security - you'll get mixed cooperation but followers after they see you have a plan - even more followers if you can break out some critical tools & supplies for implementing the plan ... no way do you stay safe in an isolated apartment with the front door wide open ....


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> Hey synthelll,
> 
> You do mention food, an inch bag, and a flashlight. However, you do not mention any type of self defense or weapon. So my step #1 advice is this:
> 
> If you are not armed and prepared to defend you, yours and what you own ........ You better give your soul to God, because your ass is theirs.


A WATCHMAN is right.

The thing that stuck out with me frst is, a flashlight with an IR lens, is that correct, or do you mean a red filter?

Unless you have an NVD, the IR lens will be useless.

You have posted a lot of plausable scenario material, but there is a vacant area that I cannot put my finger on, yet.

Lets start with about you getting a good hand gun and ammo, man you are surley going to need it based on your post.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Maybe you're assuming too much. Your actions will depend on what kind of event caused the SHTF. 

If it's a slow descent into chaos caused by political effects, you may need to defend primarily against individual crime as the authorities will have suspended liberty, restricted travel, and are shooting looters. That could last for years. If DFW has been hit by a couple of nukes, which way is the fallout blowing? If Yellowstone has let go, do you want to be walking through 6 inches of lung-corroding ash? Bugging in looks safer in those circumstances.

Your scenario of 'barricade then bug out' might be the best in an EMP attack or a currency failure or many others. Travelling stealthily at night with a INCH bag could get you out of the city, if you can find clean water, but then what? You're right about established groups rejecting newcomers without essential skills.

You have obviously thought about this a lot. I personally think if you don't already live on a self-sufficient remote farm when the balloon goes up, your chances of survival are low. Let's face it, if the cities dissolve into chaos and we live there, it's going to be "a giant sh*t sandwich, and we're all going to have to take a bite".


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Fire is a concern for single family dwellings.. but even more so for apartment buildings.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Or you can take Bill Burr's advice: "Get some powdered food, plant some zuccini, buy a windmill; and that's all well and good, but if you don't know how to fight all you're doing is gathering supplies for the toughest guy on the block." LOL.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

you need six things to survive , food , shelter, protection , water , medical supplies , a way to start a fire . if you have that then you are on the right track . have a plan place to go to deep in the woods with what you have , if you can buy a wooded lot some were out in the county and set it up for a bug out place .


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Well, if he's in Dallas county, that is a place I expect things to fall apart. Dallas county is a dem stronghold. Getting outside of the loop (635) will be tough.

My questions have been already asked so I look forward to the answer.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Be aware of what's going on, when tensions build, leave before it pops. Watch the outcome from a safe distance, then decide if you can go back. 
Why does everyone always wait til after the balloon goes up?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Coastie dad said:


> Be aware of what's going on, when tensions build, leave before it pops. Watch the outcome from a safe distance, then decide if you can go back.
> Why does everyone always wait til after the balloon goes up?


Because sometimes, crap happens.


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

I'm not sure you could escape a major metropolitan area too soon if you see things going to hell quickly.
You already acknowledge that waiting too long will make your vehicle a target, that is if you can negotiate the roadway during the aftermath of a mass exit.
If you see it coming dump the city and get out using side streets, avoid the major interstates. Have a plan and a back up route out, and a back up to your back up route.

If you wake up and SHTF is already knocking on the front door well then your stuck. Try or work with like minded neighbors to organize security but avoid tipping your hand about how much you have in reserve for yourself. Staying in the city will not be a viable long term solution. Once the short term chaos has began to quiet down get out with anyone you deem fit as a escape partner(s).

You guys in DFW already had a Ebola scare a few years ago. Did any of your co-workers or neighbors speak about what to do? These people could be candidates for you to start a small group for survival.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> I live in an apartment on the suburban side of the DFW metroplex. While I'm not downtown or anything, my area will certainly feel any kind of disruption. I have enough food and water stashed to get me through 2 months or so.
> 
> I'd like some people's insights and opinions on these thoughts...
> 
> ...


Welcome from a fellow resident of the Metromess. One of my conspriacy theory chums says the sanitary sewers will not be operational when the lights and pumps go out. Where do an apt dweller make poo?


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## preponadime (Jun 15, 2016)

I read your post twice you mention food, water, INCH Bag but I don't see anywhere where you have a plan. Hell I live 100 miles from nowhere and feel pretty secure up on this mountain but we still have a bug out plan, as a matter of fact, we have a backup plan to our backup plan. You can have all the preps to hold you for months they won't do you any good if you don't have a plan. My Advise GET A PLAN


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Denton said:


> Because sometimes, crap happens.


Yeah, to me often.
But if I can see it coming first , I ain't about to wait around and shake hands.

An early evacuation plan is something to add in to your scheme. Now, if you don't have a BOL in mind, work on that, too.


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## [email protected] (Aug 7, 2016)

Camel923 said:


> Do you had a destination in mind? Someplace where you can get away from the masses and survive. Have a cache or two of supplies pre positioned? Hard to rely solely on what is strapped to your back. Depending on how early you recognize SHTF and what it is very early bug out could be advantageous I would think the first twelve hours would be the most civil.


I have 2 separate destinations in mind in different directions. 3 but the third is kind of flimsy. I don't have any supply caches along the way tho. However, if there's no running vehicles or the roads are blocked or not safe, it could very easily take me 10-12 days of walking to my destinations (depending on how safe traveling was etc.) I have my INCH bag set up with 8 days of emergency nutritional food as well some oatmeal packets and a couple freeze dried meals. I also have several snares and passive fishing gears (speedhooks and yo-yo reels) so if I set a camp near water I can fish overnight. My thoughts being that once I'm around 50 miles away from the city and if I see a good spot, I may post up for a day to try to fish or hunt. But I do have about 2 weeks worth of food in my bag. Water, however, is constantly on my mind. That's a different beast all together and probably the one that stresses me out the most.

In my original post I mentioned infared and I meant just a red lens/filter.

As far as what type of event I'm trying to have a general game plan for all. I have a couple of emergency radios (emp protected) so a lot of the planning has to do with what the details are. Are we being attacked from the gulf? Are we hit with EMPs? Did a sun flare just cripple the world? Is it a viral epidemic? Was DFW hit with a bomb? Did a random earthquake just rip Dallas in half? I try to have all my bases covered as well as I can. Decent amount of food and water. Means of protection with firearms as well as a gameplan on how to barricade myself in if need be. I have a good cache of basic medical supplies. Nothing fancy but enough to help out with minor injuries etc. I have a good supply of candles and batteries (no generator). I also have a few shtf books covering edible wild plants, building shelters etc. bc once the shtf, there's probably going to be more boring time than we think, so with books I can atleast continue to learn.

As far as human waste, only thing I can think of is poop in bags and carry it out. Same as with a house but without the security and privacy of a fenced in yard.

Something that I've been looking into a bit more is trying to find a small spot of wooded land I can "fortify" with a shack/small home and supplies.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

If you've go a friend along your potential escape route stashing a box of supplies and a bicycle or 4 wheeled gardener's wagon at their place would go a long ways towards helping you get to a backup location. If no friend and you can afford it renting a tiny self store locker may be an option.

Some people here must live in a metropolitan area for their jobs. If I did I'd consider maintaining a stash location part of the cost of living in a city. A old small 5'x5' storage room 50 miles outside the city cost's $31/month around here.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Welcome from a fellow resident of the Metromess. One of my conspriacy theory chums says the sanitary sewers will not be operational when the lights and pumps go out. Where do an apt dweller make poo?





[email protected] said:


> I have 2 separate destinations in mind in different directions. 3 but the third is kind of flimsy. I don't have any supply caches along the way tho. However, if there's no running vehicles or the roads are blocked or not safe, it could very easily take me 10-12 days of walking to my destinations (depending on how safe traveling was etc.) I have my INCH bag set up with 8 days of emergency nutritional food as well some oatmeal packets and a couple freeze dried meals. I also have several snares and passive fishing gears (speedhooks and yo-yo reels) so if I set a camp near water I can fish overnight. My thoughts being that once I'm around 50 miles away from the city and if I see a good spot, I may post up for a day to try to fish or hunt. But I do have about 2 weeks worth of food in my bag. Water, however, is constantly on my mind. That's a different beast all together and probably the one that stresses me out the most.
> 
> In my original post I mentioned infared and I meant just a red lens/filter.
> 
> As far as human waste, only thing I can think of is poop in bags and carry it out. Same as with a house but without the security and privacy of a fenced in yard.


Here are some poo plans in a SHTF event.

Survival Sanitation: How to Deal with Human Waste


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

if you have to ask then it is already too long.


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## carrierpigeon (Aug 8, 2016)

The 72 hour rule is to accommodate for government evacuation. In minor SHTF this is sufficient however in major incidences 72 hours, especially those that hit the government, is not enough. 

The post stating layered clothing should cover you in most non extreme weather. Of course with clothing you need food and water. Having some heating can be beneficial. In an extreme emergency of extended length you probably won't be heating the entire area. The main issues with burning are smoke, and fire risk from heat. A building fire is much worse than non extreme cold weather.


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## jagular (Feb 6, 2016)

Fire is a real concern in low to medium rise apartments. A good place to start would be how to escape your apartment, immediate neighborhood and then the city. If your apartment building is on fire, can you get out safely? If you are barricaded in your place for a week or two who's to say armed thugs will not attempt to raid every unit to get what they need. I forget the name of it but there is a fire escape ladder designed for medium to high rise buildings. Something like this might be necessary to save yourself before you even think about getting out of your neighborhood.

Water is essential but it's heavy. You should identify water sources that can be purified along whatever route you take. This may be critical if you plan to survive past a week, including any water you may carry initially. 

This can all seem like you're chasing your tail just because we don't know what the trigger/event could be. For al we know, the super volcano in Yellowstone could blow and no place would be safe.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Listen to your gut!
If it tells you to go--- go!


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## imranhossain (Oct 8, 2016)

We’re testing the folks of Chicago, USA on their Guinness World Records knowledge with our host Jono. What's the longest chocolate sculpture? And the longest ramp jump in a monster truck


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Welcome from a fellow prisoner of a suburban area of the Metro Mess. Having gave a lot of thought to possible bug out locations have found it a hard choice. Only place we could go where anybody might be glad to see us is Arkieville. Course a person have to drive through Dallas and Little Rock to get there..so not sure how wise that is. My big brudder lives in a hick town about 90 miles away. Heck a person could hunt enough to live down there. I am start getting him ready for an influx if things go South. Thanks.


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