# Mosin Nagant



## TacticalCanuck

Hi all,

Still relatively new to prepping and to firearms as well. 

A week ago i got my hands on a mosin M44 carbine and took it out to the farm to see what the fuss was. 

After some site adjustments we were hitting sidewalk chalk with this thing in the low 40 yard range. We really were stupified at how amazing and accurate this old rifle was. 

I took it home cleaned all the goop off and cleaned the bore and chamber really well. Then i used crud cutter and some steel wool and cleaned it right up. I then put tung oil on it over the last week 1 coat a day and treated with steel wool between with a wipe down. 

The results are amazing. 

For the low cost of these guns and there incredible big game and long range protection capabilities i would like to hear what seasoned preppers think of these ole guns and there viability as a preppers weapon. 

I have to admit i got it with the intent to bring it into the bush for deer hunting. And the accuracy and power of this rifle left me thinking i should have few.


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## Camel923

Awesome rifle that will function under the worst imaginable conditions. It get some knocks for not being modern, the most accurate and not the smoothest bolt manipulation. The Russians fielded millions of M44m in ww II and the standard Mosin Nagant in WWI and II. These held up for an army of illiterate peasants so maintenance was probably not good, yet they functioned well in the dust, mud, extreme cold and snow.


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## Arklatex

The last thing I need right now is another rifle. But you guys are doing a good job of selling me one... I heard ammo is cheap but hard to find? I have heard in the past that one of these and several hundred rounds can fit into a length of pvc pipe for cache purposes, any truth to that?


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## Sarkus

I've looked at the Mosin off and on quite a bit but never bitten. Yes, its an accurate and reliable gun, especially for the money. But there are some negatives to consider.

First, this is a pre 1900 design, at least as far as the more common and less expensive rifle version is concerned. Its a long and relatively heavy rifle to be hauling around. There is a lighter and shorter carbine model (which is what the OP) was shooting but those are more expensive and Chinese made versions of that are more common than the Russian ones.

Second, the ammo is only cheap if you get the surplus cans online. Otherwise you are going to be paying roughly the same as you would for most other 30 cal ammo. And from a prepper point of view 308, etc., are going to much more common. Only the Mosin uses its particular ammo.

A lot of big retailers have Mosins now, including Cabelas in their used racks. I'd suggest handling one if you are interested, but personally I only think it makes sense as a prepper rifle if you can handle the size and are able to invest in a nice size stockpile of surplus ammo.


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## Hemi45

I bought an M44 online a couple years back and promptly parted with it but that was just a "me thing." It's a fine rifle for what it is but not my cup of tea. Also keep in mind that the surplus ammo is corrosive and requires you to clean the gun almost immediately after firing it.


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## mcangus

Although the prices have gone way up, still a great deal. Yes it is heavy and old. But it is almost impossible to break, which is what makes this a great prep rifle, not your main rifle however. No mags needed, after SHTF I promise you guys will be dropping and losing mags running away from the zombies. Cheap and cheap ammo(surplus ammo). More accurate than most shooters.

Has a bayonet, which is almost useless but freaking awesome.


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## Dalarast

I have fired them in the past and if the OP was amazed at what it can do at 40 yards wait until your looking at 400 yards. I was able to pick up an M44 prior to deploying and fired a few rounds through it. But to combat the lack of it being a "modern" rifle I have been contemplating putting a new stock on it and some other tweaks (timney trigger has already been delivered as well as a bent bolt) and make it a nice long distance shooter. You can pick up 440 rounds for under $100 and sometimes you can find the crate of ammo (880 rounds) for under $200. 


I purchased over two thousand rounds of 7.62x54r and have started looking at rounds that I can eventually reload down the road too. I heard the spam cam ammo I have been getting doesn't reload or temperamental about the amount of powder so may have to invest in higher quality ammo for a longer lasting rifle. 

Does this rifle replace a 30-06 or a .308? No... .. well maybe (sorry I thought about the answer as I typed that). For me it doesn't though I could use this as hunting rifle just as easily as the .308 (once stock was swapped out to make it lighter).... so once more does it replace a modern bolt action rifle... my answer is "no... well maybe".


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## Camel923

Arklatex said:


> The last thing I need right now is another rifle. But you guys are doing a good job of selling me one... I heard ammo is cheap but hard to find? I have heard in the past that one of these and several hundred rounds can fit into a length of pvc pipe for cache purposes, any truth to that?


Yes, given the correct diameter and length. Cap and seal the ends after cosmolining or greasing the rifle well and sealing in plastic. Ammo should be sealed too (just in case of a leak). Use a fence post digger and drop that tube straight down. Harder to find with a metal detector.


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## poriggity

I bought a Mosin Nagant 91/30 a while back, before prices went up, along with a 440 round spam can of surplus ammo. They are great rifles, that's for sure. I love mine. I don't shoot it much anymore, as I don't have time, but it will make a great prep addition.


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## SDF880

I have several M-44's and one 91/30. I like M-44's I picked them up cheap and added to my SHTF collection. One of the M-44's was an un-issued un-fired
1952 Polish model and it looks brand new. I haven't had any problem finding ammo on-line and Our local Cabela's has a lot on the shelf.

Takes a 7.62X54R round.


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## Notsoyoung

I have a Russian 91/30, and I think it is a great rifle. To me what makes a great rifle is accuracy and dependability. Personally if don't consider it overly heavy, but then one of my favorite rifles is a M1903/A3 in 30-06. It is an extremely accurate rifle. I was very impressed with the tightness of the shot group I had with at 100 yds. As for dependability, it was made to be used by people who would little if any maintenance on it and keep functioning. As for ammunition, surplus ammunition can be found in the area that I live, but there are 4 Western manufacturers who presently produce or will shortly produce 7.62 x 54 ammo because of the popularity of the Mosin-Nagant, so ammo will become more available. It will be more expensive, but it will also be more suitable for hunting. 

Although I do like the Mosin-Nagant allot, but I have to say that it's safety SUCKS. Other then that I have little complaints about the rifle as is, but I have been considering some of the same changes that Dalarast has mentioned to take it to the max. I personally think that it would be a welcome addition to anyone's arsenal. I know that many people feel differently but then there are many who would totally disregard any bolt action rifle as an addition to their collection. I am not one of those. Although I do have magazine fed semi-auto centerfire rifles, I also like bolt action rifles and believe that would be very useful in both a SHTF situation, or for hunting and sharpening skills now. Would it be my choice if I could have ONLY one rifle? Probably not, but you have to start somewhere and sometimes you have to go with what you can afford instead of what you want. If I could have what I wanted I would not be driving a 4 year old Explorer, but it is what I can afford and it works for me. Also, for me, if I can have only 1 rifle then things have gone very wrong for me. I plan on having a minimum of a .22 rifle, a semi-automatic magazine fed centerfire rifle, a .30 cal bolt action rifle, a pump 12 ga shotgun, a .22 pistol, a semi-automatic centerfire pistol (1911), and a .357 magnum pistol. That's just for me. It seems like allot, but to me that would cover most situations both for defense and acquiring food. Between me and my family members, there is a place for a Mosin-Nagant.


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## Dalarast

Notsoyoung. You know that trigger I mentioned has it's own safety.... Just saying.... Oh and I hear the trigger response is so much lighter to allow for better groups..... Just saying. .

Also I think if anyone can afford the extra 100-150 for a nagant (sometimes more) I would recommend it hands down. It's cheap but very reliable. Good as an m1? No. But your saving that extra "grand" for ammo or other preps....


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## hardcore

best bang for the buck in a bolt, and the ammo is still in production! here is a few of mine ready for issue


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## oldgrouch

I want to get a Mosin but will have to wait until next gun show. However, I do have an SVT-40 which is a WW II Russian semi-auto that fires the 7.62 x 54. It has a 10 round mag. Surplus ammo is not expensive. I like the old surplus military rifles. I've got two enfields: .303 and .308. THese inexpensive arms are good "starter" guns for preppers.


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## csi-tech

As anyone who has seen my post knows, I love my Chinese type 53. Just shot it a week ago and had a ball. I'm going to a gunshow next Sunday and I'm hoping to see a few Russian M44's.


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## Foxfire

I Love my 91/30. I start my cleaning routine after my last shot, while the barrel is still warm.
Then daily for 2 more days. (corrosive ammo)
BTW- From the breach with a dewy coated rod. Nothing goes in the muzzle, only out.

Edward


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## rice paddy daddy

I like surplus rifles, and in Mosin Nagants I have a 1943 Izhevsk 91/30 and a 1948 Izhevsk M44. I have laid in a supply of ammo ranging from modern Wolf to 1954 Bulgarian surplus.
I enjoy mine as shooters, I have better choices for serious work. But if they were all I had, I could make do just fine.


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## LunaticFringeInc

Arklatex said:


> The last thing I need right now is another rifle. But you guys are doing a good job of selling me one... I heard ammo is cheap but hard to find? I have heard in the past that one of these and several hundred rounds can fit into a length of pvc pipe for cache purposes, any truth to that?


The guns are reasonably cheap at about 179.99 each at Cabela's, and similar prices else where although I am sure if you scrounge long enough youll find one cheaper. Ammo can still he had for about 100-130 bucks a 440 round tin and its out there. You just got to look a little. Here locally Academy and Grander Mountian has a butt load of it in all of their local stores! No its not a plentiful or nearly as pathetically cheap as it once was about 15 years ago. 49 bucks would have got you a nice M-44 then and 35 bucks would have gotten you a tin of ammo!


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## LunaticFringeInc

The biggest thing you have to remember about these guns is entry level guns are just about a 100-150 more and usually shoot a bit better accuracy wise off the shelf. They are also available in a number of calibers at about the same price that 20 round boxes of 7.62x54r is retailing for. Mosins do have great potential though, no doubt about that!!! Get one with a good well cared for bore and shoot some decent ammo out of it and they can definitely make you take notice. Another thing you have to think about is ALL of the ammo is imported...remember Democrats have a pen and a phone not to mention a disdain for the 2nd Amendment. The Winchester ammo is nothing more than Sellers and Bellot packaged in Winchesters box! All it takes is an EO and there aint nothing you can do. Reloading it...the brass cases are about 3 times what 308 or 30-06 brass will cost and only last about 3 loads before having to discard them.

I do however like them though and I wished 18 months ago when I got mine for 119.00 on sale at Cabela's I would have bought about 9 more of them!!! I love to robust and simplicity of the design. One thing for sure is they aren't getting any cheaper and neither is the ammo. If your going to get them, get them now and stack the ammo for them deep while its still reasonably priced!!!


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## Moonshinedave

Foxfire said:


> I Love my 91/30. I start my cleaning routine after my last shot, while the barrel is still warm.
> Then daily for 2 more days. (corrosive ammo)
> BTW- From the breach with a dewy coated rod. Nothing goes in the muzzle, only out.
> 
> Edward


I think people get all freaked out over "corrosive ammo" from what I've learned it is salt in the gun powder that makes it corrosive. Using an ammonia based cleaner with remove the salt residue, heard Windex is one of the best things to use, other than that clean and oil as normal. Cleaning should be done the same day you fire it, but don't most of us do that anyway?


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## TacticalCanuck

Hey some great info here thanks guys. I really like my mosin taking it out for a date tomorrow. 100 yards and a couple of cases of really cheap soda. Cant wait! Corrosive ammo dont phase me i have had 0 issues with my SKS but it is chrome lined. 

The bolt on mine is super smooth but then again ive not shot a 2000 dollar boutique rifle either. The owners tend to be more worried about finger prints than hitting their targets from what ive seen. 

For me, when i pull the trigger and it goes boom and hits what i am pointing it at i am a happy man. 

They are a little heavy but id rather have this and 100 rounds with me to get home than a 10/22 and 500 rounds. The only advantage of .22 is small game. If i get that desparare in a get home situation ill just aim for the head and simply not have to remove it when cleaning lol. 

If its all i had i would imagine me doimg well with it. If i came under serious attack from many assailants having full auto wouldnt help much unless they were standing in a perfect line.


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## Dalarast

Has anyone dropped any money into their Mosin? Such as changed the stock out or purchase a new trigger and bent bolt? Optics? 

Yes... the mosin is an amazing weapon on its own; but just as my wife is an amazing looking woman sometimes a nice outfit and shoes makes her jaw dropping. Same idea with the nagant. Opinions on what works and what doesn't work? 

Has anyone tried the tacti-cool arch-angel stock? Monte Carlo?


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## Notsoyoung

If the SHTF I think that the Mosin-Nagent will be a very useful rifle to have in your arsenal. I have one, and although it is not my primary "go-to" rifle, it is still a viable and lethal firearm. I figure if nothing else, it is entirely possible that someone will show up with special skills but on weapons who will end up joining our family/group. If we armed them with a Mosin-Nagant I don't think that they would be at a terrible disadvantage, especially if you have allot of stripper clips on hand.


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## Tennessee

If the SHTF and I can only choose one of the following 22 rifle, 12g shotgun or a Nagent. The Nagent would be my last choice. Not saying the Nagent isn't a capable weapon but would not be my first choice.


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## Moonshinedave

Dalarast said:


> Has anyone dropped any money into their Mosin? Such as changed the stock out or purchase a new trigger and bent bolt? Optics?
> 
> Yes... the mosin is an amazing weapon on its own; but just as my wife is an amazing looking woman sometimes a nice outfit and shoes makes her jaw dropping. Same idea with the nagant. Opinions on what works and what doesn't work?
> 
> Has anyone tried the tacti-cool arch-angel stock? Monte Carlo?


I haven't and will not spend a bunch of money on mine, I feel it defeats the purpose. If I wanna spend serious money on a rifle, there are much better choices out there.
Now, that doesn't mean I haven't spent some time working on mine. First off, I stripped and stained the stock and re-blued the barrel. I used jeweler's rouge and a bench buffer on the bolt and firing pin. A few other tricks I learned from YouTube (see below). Personally I think I have a pretty nice firing weapon, and still kept it inexpensive.
I noticed there are many more trigger fixes on YouTube now, but here is the one I followed:




Likewise there are tons of how to videos out there I see a few, but here is one that has some neat tricks I used.


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## csi-tech

All I have done to my type 53 is checked the headspace, cleaned the breech of baked on cosmoline, refinished the stock and touched up the bluing. While not my first choice for a survival rifle, if it's all I had, I wouldn't feel under gunned. I have an abundance of ammo for it and it can take a beating.


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## mcangus

Dalarast said:


> Has anyone dropped any money into their Mosin? Such as changed the stock out or purchase a new trigger and bent bolt? Optics?
> 
> Yes... the mosin is an amazing weapon on its own; but just as my wife is an amazing looking woman sometimes a nice outfit and shoes makes her jaw dropping. Same idea with the nagant. Opinions on what works and what doesn't work?
> 
> Has anyone tried the tacti-cool arch-angel stock? Monte Carlo?


I personally like the look and feel of a completely original Mosin. But I understand why people would want to customize their Mosin, especially if you have more than a few on hand. I think it is fun to customize a firearm but the Mosin Nagant isn't worth it from a particle sense. Spend the money on more ammo or save up for a better rifle.

So if you have more than one Mosin and have the cash, go for it! Otherwise practice with it and spend the money on ammo. Lots of guys are like girls, spending money on things just to make it look nice. You would think a "gun guy" is somewhat of a masculine man. Maybe I am over thinking it.


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## Notsoyoung

_"Lots of guys are like girls, spending money on things just to make it look nice."_ ...... Just because I glued some sparkly stuff to my rifle and painted the stock lavender doesn't mean I'm like a girl. (Just kidding).


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## Dalarast

mcangus said:


> I personally like the look and feel of a completely original Mosin. But I understand why people would want to customize their Mosin, especially if you have more than a few on hand. I think it is fun to customize a firearm but the Mosin Nagant isn't worth it from a particle sense. Spend the money on more ammo or save up for a better rifle.
> 
> So if you have more than one Mosin and have the cash, go for it! Otherwise practice with it and spend the money on ammo. Lots of guys are like girls, spending money on things just to make it look nice. You would think a "gun guy" is somewhat of a masculine man. Maybe I am over thinking it.


I agree if the mosin is the only rifle one may have; but I have two. One is my restored piece that I'm keeping stock and still will fire it now and than. The one I am buying the parts for, the one I got before I got over here, is the one I am considering playing with. I got the rifle in exchange for a ride and share of a rental car fee so in my mind its a free rifle. So if I invest $150 into it its in my head breaking even. I have an extra optic at the house I was going to throw on it anyway that cost more than the rifle... but its extra and if I pick up the .308 I want I can swap optics if needed.

Now as far as modifying any rifle.. be it a mosin, an AR, or an AK.... I hate people who put furniture on it that makes no sense other than to make it look tacti-cool. I'm a function guy... if a stock will reduce weight and recoil and make the rifle fire better and more accurate than it's worth it to me. If a rail system and light fixtures and bipod and gangster grip and laser sight and bayonet mount and can opener was attached to it.... why.

No... I do plan on chroming out the rifle and removing all the wooden furniture for gold plated diamonds and the bolt will end in a rhinestone and will have a diamond encrusted punisher skull on the buttstock. Oh and it will have led's that light up and say look at me after I fire it....

Moonshine - The trigger work I did in that video on my original mosin; but went with the timney to offer a better safety and reduced trigger pull. When I ever get home and get it put together I will offer up a compare and contrast to see if it was worth the 80 bucks.


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## Doc Holliday

I had a Mosin but unfortunately I gave it to my nephew... it was a fine rifle and very accurate
My favorite is the Mannlicher Schoenauer in 6.5 X 57 that is an accurate rifle!!!


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## TacticalCanuck

Im doing nothing other than keeping it clean. And shooting it as often as i can. I may buy one to play with in terms of stock finishing or what not saw a nice polished metal and glossy black one on youtube and though that would be a fun project.


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## csi-tech

I am considering buying a cheap 91-30 and just leaving it soaked in cosmoline in it's wrapper just in case.


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## mcangus

csi-tech said:


> I am considering buying a cheap 91-30 and just leaving it soaked in cosmoline in it's wrapper just in case.


I understand if some guy who already shoots a Mosin bought a whole case of Mosin decides to just let them sit but if you pick up just one, I think you should clean it up and shoot it a few times. It does take time to clean, in the "just in case" situation at lease the gun will be ready to go.


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## Notsoyoung

It was allot of work for me to finally get all of the cosmoline out of mine to where is could shoot it and eject the used cartridge. I don't think you want to be in the situation the chamber heats up, melts a thin coating of cosmoline in the chamber, and all of the sudden it's like the bolt is locked in place when you fire it. I cleaned it, got it to function correctly, oiled it, and take it out a couple of times of year to the range. I have fun shooting it so I don't think that I will store it somewhere "just in case". That's just me and my personal preference.


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## Moonshinedave

When I got mine, I disassembled it poured boiling water on the metal parts and let them soak a bit, used a degreaser on them, stripped the stock with paint stripper, then used a heatgun to heat the wood then wipe the cosmoline from it until none could be removed sanded and stained. The other work, I have already posted. Oh yeah, I also glass bedding one of them.


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## reloader7.62

About 7 years ago I bought my first Mosin a hand picked Russian M44 for $75 and 3 / 300 rd. tins of Bulgarian LB ammo for $29 each. I bought the rifle because I was looking for a cheap hunting rifle and the 54r runs in the range of the .308 and 30-06 and will take anything that walks around these parts.

I did refinish the stock several year ago that was peeling off when I was laid off for a time. It's fairly simple to remove the old Russian Shellac with denatured alcohol and fine steel wood and some clean rags with no real effort at all,I used a rub on Minwax stain similar to the original stock color. While I was at it I removed all the unblued metal parts and painted them a nice flat black and sealed them with a clear protective coating. The stock was sealed with several light coats of poly.

I also free floated the barrel inside the wooden barrel shroud and JB Weld bedded the action. In total I have had around 24 hrs. start to finish and 25$ worth of materials to do the job. Since my eyes are getting old and I don't see iron as well as I once did I decided to install a front sight scout mount and a long eye relieve scope. I install a S & K steel ring scout mount for around $60 which I've used for around 5 years now with no issues and a $40 3 x 7 pistol scope. The rifle was very accurate as it was but even more so now,MOA is easily obtained at 100 yds. with my handloads.

The mount can be removed with two allen wrenches and the original rear leaf sight and spring reinstalled in about 10 min. or less if need be.

As for ammo I've shot all kinds of surplus ammo but mainly Bulgarina 50's and 80's in brass and steel case Russian 80's steel case but my favorite is the Yugo 70's brass case ammo which I bought a stash of when it was available,it was made by Prvi Partizan in the mid 70's and is basically the same as the PPU FMJ ammo sold today but with corrosive berdan primers Yugoslavian 1976 7.62x54r Lead Core Heavy Ball

The biggest problem with the surplus ammo is consistency,some lots are better than others but differences in bullet weights,seating depths,powder charge weights,overall cartridge lengths and neck tension from one rd. to the next all contribute to overall accuracy. The rifle is important as well as to how much it was used and condition of the bore and how well it was taken care of and cleaned but even one in excellent condition is only going to shoot as well as the ammo you put into it. For the most part the surplus ammo is great for plinking and general purpose SHTF ammo but for good accuracy you need good quality factory ammo or to reload your own especially for hunting purposes.

As far as corrosive ammo it's not a big deal,humidity plays a bigger part on how soon you need to clean the rifle when shooting corrosive ammo than anything else. The berdan primer which contain the corrosive salts is the culprit not the powder,the salts which are deposited on metal surfaces attract moisture and start the rusting process. In dry climates the process takes a while sometimes days,in very humid climate it starts almost immediately. You don't need any fancy cleaners or chemicals to clean after using corrosive ammo plain old water works just fine,if you want to add a few drops of dish soap or use Windex because it's handy that's fine as well. All you doing is flushing the salts off the metal,then you can use your more expensive cleaners for the final cleaning.

As far as reloading for the 54r I've pretty much covered the gamut,in the old days when good reloadable brass wasn't available I Mexican Matched brass case surplus ammo to make good hunting ammo which wasn't available in my area. It's basically the process of tearing down the surplus ammo into components,replacing the factory FMJ with a commercial SP of equal or similar weight and diameter and adjusting the powder charge accordingly,usually loading down around 2 full gains seems to produce the best results since most surplus ammo is loaded on the hot side anyways. Resizing the case neck and seating the bullet to the proper OAL for that bullet type. I've been able to turn surplus ammo groups that shot 6" into 2" groups fairly easy without lots of extermination.

Some surplus rds. and Mexican matched rds.




I mainly shoot cast lead in my Mosin's these days as it more economical than even surplus ammo and I can load anything from 90 gr. subsonic plinker rds. at 1000 fps. for small game and pest to 2K fps. hunting loads. Cast loads are very accurate and kill game just as cleanly as jacketed bullets if you do your part.


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## bigdogbuc

Mosin fan here. Ammo for these comes and goes, generally pretty quickly on both sides. Good news; the Russians still produce it because they still have current issue weapons that shoot it. After however long, we see the ammo they take out of service as they rotate their stocks. Out with the old, in with the new. Generally speaking, when supplies run out off the shelf or online, it's back pretty quick. I only order online as the local gun shops (usually the only ones who carry it) have a pretty significant mark up. Even with shipping, it's a really good deal for a tin of ammo. 

I have a sporterized 91/30 that I cut down to just over 16" (keepin' it legal), crowned the muzzle, trimmed the stock, put a scout scope on and painted it. It shoots awesome groups at 100 yards, around 2" with surplus and the groups tighten up as the bullets get heavier, using the 180 grain Winchester and the 203 Grain Silver Bear. When I turned mine into a Scout Rifle, Brass Stacker was a start-up and didn't have the product line they do now or I would have kept my rear sight assembly in tact using their mount for a scope and purchased the front sight kit to replace what I lost when I cut the barrel.

I have owned a few 91/30's, a couple of M44's and a Chinese Type 53. Unfortunately, as things happen, had to sell them, but I've managed to keep this one. I guess mostly because folks think it's "ruined" so they wouldn't want to buy it. But every time I take it to the range, rattle the timbers while shooting fireballs and getting fist sized groups, I get "Wow. That's cool. I want one." Even if they tell me how I "ruined" it first.

Mosin's are tanks, they are simple in design, not a lot of moving parts, easy to work on, clean and maintain. Parts are plentiful and cheap. And as others have said before, don't get freaked out by "corrosive ammo". It's not like your shooting acid through it and your rifle will be a pile of dust before you get home. Hoppes, Windex, vinegar and water, soap and water, will clean it just fine. All you're doing is neutralizing the salts used in the primer. Clean your chamber, bore and bolt face and you're good to go. I keep a sandwich bag with some pre-soaked rags of Windex to run through it and wipe the bolt with at the range. I have yet to ever use them. I generally clean my guns same day, but not always. I went a week once before I could clean the Mosin. I did run a patch through it and wiped the bolt face as I knew it would be a bit, and had no issues.

Yeah, Mosins are heavy. But not unbearably heavy. They are battle proven rifles. And if you run out of ammo, you can use that steel butt plate to literally bash someones skull in, help open a door, take out a car window, drive tent stakes and so on. Then there's the bayonet...I love them and I think they are great rifles. Definitely worth consideration for a survival, shtf, back-up, even a go-to rifle, especially if you're on a budget.


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## bigdogbuc

As for cosmoline removal....I use my torch with a propane bottle. Metal and wood. Heats it up, liquifies it, wipe it off, done. I do the same thing on the wood to get it out of the pores, wiping it down with paper towels or newspaper. Heat is the key. I've done it ONCE with a rag and solvent, about three or four hours...never again. That crap is in every nook and cranny and "burning" it out is the way to go.

If you have a "sticky bolt", it's most typically old cosmoline in the chamber that has been heated up, dried and crusted, over and over. So make sure you get that chamber CLEAN. Get a chamber brush!


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## ApexPredator

All well and good but look at your personal situation first. Everything is all situation me I am going to be bugging out and need a really reliable accurate high rate of fire weapon that can take down large game. For me thats the SCAR but I have a thing aganst low grade firearms anyways you trust your life to one enough sometimes you want to see the little design details and quality production but thats a personal requirement.


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## bigdogbuc

ApexPredator said:


> All well and good but look at your personal situation first. Everything is all situation me I am going to be bugging out and need a really reliable accurate high rate of fire weapon that can take down large game. For me thats the SCAR but I have a thing aganst low grade firearms anyways you trust your life to one enough sometimes you want to see the little design details and quality production but thats a personal requirement.


I don't have $4000 to spend on a SCAR. But good on ya' if you can. A Mosin will take down big game, but it definitely lacks a high volume of fire. I subscribe to One Shot, One Kill. I just do it a little slower. :grin:


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## ApexPredator

it gets the job done but when you need to do some serious work the long action bolt is going to make life real hard and possibly a whole lot shorter. Fortunatly I enjoyed buying nice firearms and practicing with them even before I joined the army my cheapest gun is a marlin 22 at 350$ Just wanted to point that out alot of people skip that point


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## Dalarast

Weapon training is also not just range shooting which is forgotten about in both civilian and military units at an alarming level. Most units in the army now spend more time and money at the range just qualifying than they do with practical/functional.... Applying that to a mosin one should practice with reloading and follow-up shots as well as stalking with that weapon. Movement drills are always helpful and transition to a secondary. Most of this is good stuff with any firearm and is very useful for preps or just hunting.

And now. Mosin porn.


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## Notsoyoung

The Mosin is a very accurate and very reliable rifle. It was designed to work in some of the nastiest weather on Earth, and does so admirably. Frankly I have a hard time when I hear someone criticize someone who owns a Mosin and then says that they should own a firearm that costs 10 times as much as the Mosin. You do what you can with what you can afford. Yes, I have a semi-auto, centerfire, magazine fed rifle (AR), and yes, I would like to own a Springfield M1A someday, but that doesn't mean that the Mosin isn't a viable survival rifle. It isn't THAT heavy nor THAT long. Millions of Soviet troops humped them thousands of miles driving the nazis back to Berlin. They somehow managed it. I suppose that the whole weight, length, and amount of rounds you can quickly get down range is why every now and then you hear someone proclaim that their SHTF survival firearm is a Glock or equivalent 9mm pistol. 

I own a Mosin firstly because I wanted one and it was fairly inexpensive, if not downright cheap for a decent centerfire rifle. It is a fun and inexpensive centerfire rifle to take out to the range and just burn through a bunch of rounds. In addition, I plan on having family members and perhaps others showing up if the SHTF that for one reason or another are either unarmed or under armed, and I will want to give them a firearm that will make them a viable asset as far a providing for the common defense or hunting for large game. I have one Mosin and plan on getting at least 2 more. It won't break the bank for me to do it, and then I would be able to mess around with one of them to make whatever changes to it that I want without feeling too badly if I screw it up. 

In the end it comes down to what you can afford, what you have, your terrain, the population density of where you live, and the vegetation of the environment of where you will be. If you are going to try to make it in a apartment building, you probably would be better off with a 9mm pistol then a Mosin. On the other hand if you live out in the country and you can see anyone coming from a mile away, then a Mosin might not be a bad choice without spending one or two thousand. Ideally, you would be in the position that you have have both multiple firearms to chose from and would be able to use different ones for different situations.


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## Boss Dog

Love my M44, and the fireball. Love milsurps, wish I still had my Chilean 95-Mauser. 
One day I'll have another but, what I really covet is a 1903 Springfield. Want one B-A-A-A-D!
I prefer to keep them as original as possible, about the most I would do is add a bent bolt handle 
if it doesn't already have one. My Mosin has the bayonet cut off but, that's ok as I would never use it anyway.
Lee makes dies and molds for the 7.62x54R.


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## csi-tech

I have an M4, an AK 47, a host of modern sporting rifles and shotguns and a Mosin Nagant carbine. The rifle that I have the most fun with at the range is the Mosin. As for accuracy and practicality you would not want to draw my ire and be downrange. I am confident that at 200 yards I will hit a man sized target all day long. It can hold it's own against any modern semi auto rifle during controlled fire. I am still trying to figure out how to bumpfire it though.


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## ApexPredator

Dalarast 
Real skill with a weapon is being lost by alot couldnt agree more just bringing up the point that between to resonably matched shooters the one with a higher rate of fire and shorter distance to reset is most likely gonna take it in a shoot out.

Notsoyoung
I aint saying you got to have one just saying what I dont like about it and what I choose and why everything has ups and downs. The issue I see is the SCAR wins every category but one price but I already bought one before I started "Prepping" its alot like saying your gonna be stranded on a deserted island forever you can choose A)A cheap hooker B) Miss America (personality not included) and both get the job done but one has a whole lot more baggage. Like I said its a personal choice with regards to your personal situation if I was equipping a "Militia" price would be a much higher consideration. Since its just me and my family having a SCAR exponentially increases my lethality but again I also use and train with one at work and getting to put 20k-50k rounds through your bug out rifle every year is a huge consideration.


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## Notsoyoung

ApexPredator said:


> Dalarast
> Real skill with a weapon is being lost by alot couldnt agree more just bringing up the point that between to resonably matched shooters the one with a higher rate of fire and shorter distance to reset is most likely gonna take it in a shoot out.
> 
> Notsoyoung
> I aint saying you got to have one just saying what I dont like about it and what I choose and why everything has ups and downs. The issue I see is the SCAR wins every category but one price but I already bought one before I started "Prepping" its alot like saying your gonna be stranded on a deserted island forever you can choose A)A cheap hooker B) Miss America (personality not included) and both get the job done but one has a whole lot more baggage. Like I said its a personal choice with regards to your personal situation if I was equipping a "Militia" price would be a much higher consideration. Since its just me and my family having a SCAR exponentially increases my lethality but again I also use and train with one at work and getting to put 20k-50k rounds through your bug out rifle every year is a huge consideration.


 No, what you did was go to a thread about a Mosin-Nagant to tell everyone that you own a SCAR. Well, not everyone could afford a SCAR and not everyone would want one if they could afford it.

Hardly similar between a choice between a hooker or Miss America, or maybe there is. If all you are interested in is sex, maybe there is one that knows what she is doing and the other thinks that you should be happy because you can look at her..... As for the SCAR beating the Mosin in every category, really? Your Scar can beat a Mosin at 1,000 yds? Don't think so.

I have not said that a Mosin would be anyone's first choice as a firearm if the SHTF. What I said was that it is a good weapon, that there are times and more importantly places where it would a good weapon to have on hand, and that it is excellent as far as reliability goes when there is a possibility of using it in extreme conditions and when it is a possibility that you might have to go for decades without getting repairs or parts. As I said, my primary SHTF weapon is an AR. But that doesn't mean that I would discount other firearms. The one who can put the most bullets downrange in the shortest period of time does have a great advantage, but ultimately the one who hits his target first, wins. A thousand misses doesn't equal one hit.


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## bigdogbuc

Notsoyoung said:


> No, what you did was go to a thread about a Mosin-Nagant to tell everyone that you own a SCAR. Well, not everyone could afford a SCAR and not everyone would want one if they could afford it.
> 
> Hardly similar between a choice between a hooker or Miss America, or maybe there is. If all you are interested in is sex, maybe there is one that knows what she is doing and the other thinks that you should be happy because you can look at her..... As for the SCAR beating the Mosin in every category, really? Your Scar can beat a Mosin at 1,000 yds? Don't think so.
> 
> I have not said that a Mosin would be anyone's first choice as a firearm if the SHTF. What I said was that it is a good weapon, that there are times and more importantly places where it would a good weapon to have on hand, and that it is excellent as far as reliability goes when there is a possibility of using it in extreme conditions and when it is a possibility that you might have to go for decades without getting repairs or parts. As I said, my primary SHTF weapon is an AR. But that doesn't mean that I would discount other firearms. The one who can put the most bullets downrange in the shortest period of time does have a great advantage, but ultimately the one who hits his target first, wins. A thousand misses doesn't equal one hit.


I will have to say that a SCAR can smack 1000 yards all day long. In the hands of someone who can do it that is. SCAR's are extremely capable weapons for everything from high rates of fire, close quarters, long distance, devastating knock down power etc. I won't go so far as to say it's an "All Purpose" rifle, but it's close.

But the price tag makes me vomit and the biggest advantage it has over a Mosin, is the rate of fire and it's a little bit more precise in accuracy, but I don't necessarily need to thread the needle in a SHTF situation. That's about it as far as I can tell. The Mosin is a bolt action rifle that I have full confidence in regarding it's reliability, power and accuracy. I also know it's limitations, being rate of fire. Anyone who carries a bolt gun, would do themselves a favor by having a semi-auto mag fed rifle, and leave the bolt gun for longer range work. I trust my Mosin's ability out to 4-500 yards. Okay, my ability... And that's a lot of ground between me and them...


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## bigdogbuc

Notsoyoung said:


> "yes, I would like to own a Springfield M1A someday..."
> 
> Amen NSY!!! I'm torn between the Standard, Standard Loaded or the Scout Squad with the Walnut Stock. Something sexy about them. Especially since I'm apparently not getting my deceased uncle's M1 Garand. Seem's his wife has disappeared, along with the rifle that was mine. :evil: Sure gonna' miss the rifle.


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## Inor

Sorry to jack the thread, but I could use some of your advice:

The last few weeks, I have been thinking about possibly getting a commie gun to be able to take advantage of cheap commie ammo. I know I DO NOT want an AK. I shot a few of them and did not like the feel of them AT ALL!

So, the decision has come down to a Mosin-Nagant or an SKS. I do not know squat about either one as I have never shot either. (Until recently, I have had absolutely no interest in owning a commie gun.) My concern with the Mosin is whether Mrs Inor could handle it. I know she would be fine with the SKS as she handles her Garand and my FNAR without any problems. But I am concerned the bolt action and the larger cartridge might be a little heavy for her. (She is a smallish woman.)

On the flip side, the SKS's are getting expensive for a cheap commie gun.

So, to you commie gun aficionados: What are your thoughts?


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## mcangus

Inor said:


> Sorry to jack the thread, but I could use some of your advice:
> 
> The last few weeks, I have been thinking about possibly getting a commie gun to be able to take advantage of cheap commie ammo. I know I DO NOT want an AK. I shot a few of them and did not like the feel of them AT ALL!
> 
> So, the decision has come down to a Mosin-Nagant or an SKS. I do not know squat about either one as I have never shot either. (Until recently, I have had absolutely no interest in owning a commie gun.) My concern with the Mosin is whether Mrs Inor could handle it. I know she would be fine with the SKS as she handles her Garand and my FNAR without any problems. But I am concerned the bolt action and the larger cartridge might be a little heavy for her. (She is a smallish woman.)
> 
> On the flip side, the SKS's are getting expensive for a cheap commie gun.
> 
> So, to you commie gun aficionados: What are your thoughts?


For hunting, Mosin
For fun, Mosin
For defense, SKS
For project, Mosin
For value(bang for your buck), Mosin

Best answer both.

Yeah the Mosin is pretty heavy and large. Also it kicks pretty hard as well. So just tell her to workout.


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## bigdogbuc

Inor said:


> Sorry to jack the thread, but I could use some of your advice:
> 
> The last few weeks, I have been thinking about possibly getting a commie gun to be able to take advantage of cheap commie ammo. I know I DO NOT want an AK. I shot a few of them and did not like the feel of them AT ALL!
> 
> So, the decision has come down to a Mosin-Nagant or an SKS. I do not know squat about either one as I have never shot either. (Until recently, I have had absolutely no interest in owning a commie gun.) My concern with the Mosin is whether Mrs Inor could handle it. I know she would be fine with the SKS as she handles her Garand and my FNAR without any problems. But I am concerned the bolt action and the larger cartridge might be a little heavy for her. (She is a smallish woman.)
> 
> On the flip side, the SKS's are getting expensive for a cheap commie gun.
> 
> So, to you commie gun aficionados: What are your thoughts?


If she can handle a Garand or your FNAR, she can handle either one of the Commie guns. Just depends on what the intent for using it is. Mosins and their ammo are much cheaper than the SKS. Brass Stacker has some really cool goodies for the Mosin that can make it more "utilitarian" while keeping it in an original configuration. You can even shorten the barrel and still stick a front sight assembly on it, which I believe, with their rear scope mount (fits over the rear sight), you can use either. You just have to make sure the rear sight base is pinned and not soldered.

The Mosin is more accurate than the SKS and hits way harder. Ballistically, it is equal to, perhaps a smidge better than the .308, and performs just behind the 30-06. The biggest thing you need to look at with the Mosin is the bore. BORE, BORE, BORE. Which is why I would say "NEVER purchase one online!" unless you are familiar with the seller. You need to have it in hand and look at it. Our version and the online sellers version of a "nice bore" can vary greatly. Dark is okay. Pitting is not. And you want signs of good, strong, consistent rifling. You will never find one with crisp, sharp lands and grooves with bright bores. I've had a few that just needed a good cleaning and some bore paste to shine them up and show you a completely different (and very good) bore from what you may have seen in the gun store or gun show.

The other issue that Mosin's can have is bore dimension. Not a lot of consistency there, which is why one may shoot well, one may not. Bore diameter can have drastic differences, from .310 up to .313 or beyond. Mine is a Finish model and has a .308 bore (score!). Usually, if one is shot out (.312-.313), you'll see faint evidence of rifling. Put it down and walk away. Some guys will slug the barrel if they're reloading so they know what size bullet to buy. Generally though, not necessary.

Look very carefully at the muzzle. Most will need to be re-crowned; easy to do at home with some simple hand tools and a YouTube video or two to get the idea of what you're doing. The biggest thing here is to make sure the crown is 90 degrees to the axis of the bore. It's easy. You can even go to Brownell's and buy the tools. Not super expensive, but not exactly cheap and unless you're doing several, probably not worth the money. But who doesn't like tools? I used a hand file, a fine stone in a cone shape in my drill, same fine sand paper, a little steel wool and a brass headed screw. I have a great muzzle now with a beautiful crown.

Other's may need a counter bore, probably best for a gunsmith. Most Mosin's that are inaccurate, the problem lies at the muzzle. Some will be shot out and you didn't pay attention to the rifling. This is where you decide Gunsmith, or hacksaw and crown job? If you choose hacksaw, this is where Brass Stacker comes in with a front sight assembly. But check their chart first. You have to cut to specific lengths based on your barrel diameter for it to work properly. To far back, to far forward and it's 'No Bueno'.

You can add a Timney Trigger to it (super nice), you can get after-market stocks and bed them, you can Pillar Bed the action and so on. You can make a fine shooting rifle for next to nothing. I would go on YouTube and watch the multiple Mosin series at IRAQVETERAN8888. LOTS of good info, lots of How To, some really neat stuff there. You can build a rifle that will equal a Remington 700 SPS Tactical for at least a couple hundred less. And it's way cheaper to shoot!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=iraqveteran8888+mosin+nagant


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## bigdogbuc

Also Inor, take a bullet with you, just the bullet. I know they get a little weird at gun shows when you start handling guns and pull out live ammo. :lol: If it's okay with the seller, put that bullet in the muzzle and see where it sits. That will tell you tons. The further the tip of the bullet seats in the muzzle, the more the wear. The amount of "muzzle erosion" will give you a good indicator of the amount of "throat erosion" in the back end. A general standard is if the muzzle shows 1, the throat will likely be 2. The throat wears at about twice the rate of the muzzle. If the tip of that bullet goes in more than about 1/3, really look at the rifling. It may just need a counter bore, but it's an indicator of possible head space issues at worst, or a worn out chamber/rifling all together. And you just wasted your money.


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## ApexPredator

bigdogbuc said:


> Also Inor, take a bullet with you, just the bullet. I know they get a little weird at gun shows when you start handling guns and pull out live ammo. :lol: If it's okay with the seller, put that bullet in the muzzle and see where it sits. That will tell you tons. The further the tip of the bullet seats in the muzzle, the more the wear. The amount of "muzzle erosion" will give you a good indicator of the amount of "throat erosion" in the back end. A general standard is if the muzzle shows 1, the throat will likely be 2. The throat wears at about twice the rate of the muzzle. If the tip of that bullet goes in more than about 1/3, really look at the rifling. It may just need a counter bore, but it's an indicator of possible head space issues at worst, or a worn out chamber/rifling all together. And you just wasted your money.


Dam thats a good freakin idea how come ive never heard of that before.


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## bigdogbuc

ApexPredator said:


> Dam thats a good freakin idea how come ive never heard of that before.


It's a poor mans throat/muzzle erosion gauge. Not perfect, but it works to help you make an informed decision. If the bullet drops into the bore, you know you have an issue! :grin:


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## bigdogbuc

A set of Go/No Go or Field Gauge off of Ebay is a consideration as well. They're relatively inexpensive and you just slip it on the bolt face and close (or not close) the bolt...depending on what you're checking. If the bolt doesn't close on the Go, or closes on the no go, head space is no good. It's a small investment that can save headaches, time and money later on.

Here's a video; You can skip to at least the 4 minute mark on this one. He talks a lot and doesn't say much...


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## bigdogbuc

Here's a better one...


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## Inor

Damn Big Dog! This is great info! THANKS!


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## bigdogbuc

No problemo El Pero Inor...

that didn't work as intended. Good thing I don't really speak Spanish.


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## csi-tech

I love the SCAR. I can't afford to own one because when I needed a new roof that would be the first thing to go. I did not have, nor could I get my hands on go-no-go gauges for the Mosin so I set the rifle up in a lead sled and remotely fired the first few rounds. The spent casings were perfect with no bulging or malformation anywhere when compared to an unfired cartridge. Worked great.


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## bigdogbuc

There is but one El Pero Grande, and he is King of all things Monkey Porn...


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## Slippy

I, for one, am damn glad BigDogBuc is back! Thank you Sir! I just learned more from his posts than I have in a long while. 

I wish you were around when my buddy showed up to shoot his commie SKS. Still in the box with commie gunk on it, I cleaned it then commenced to drive myself crazy trying to adjust the sights and get it somewhat close, what a cheap piece of junk BUT, I wouldn't want to be on the business end of the damn thing. 

I got the thing sighted in pretty good but damn I burnt through a bunch of commie ammo. This gun was very inconsistent. I finally came to the conclusion that the rifling might have been off?


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## Inor

Slippy said:


> I, for one, am damn glad BigDogBuc is back! Thank you Sir! I just learned more from his posts than I have in a long while.


Ditto that!


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## bigdogbuc

Slippy said:


> I, for one, am damn glad BigDogBuc is back! Thank you Sir! I just learned more from his posts than I have in a long while.
> 
> I wish you were around when my buddy showed up to shoot his commie SKS. Still in the box with commie gunk on it, I cleaned it then commenced to drive myself crazy trying to adjust the sights and get it somewhat close, what a cheap piece of junk BUT, I wouldn't want to be on the business end of the damn thing.
> 
> I got the thing sighted in pretty good but damn I burnt through a bunch of commie ammo. This gun was very inconsistent. I finally came to the conclusion that the rifling might have been off?


Thanks you two! I missed you both terribly, as well as a few others 'round here.

That's an SKS for ya' Slip. Especially the sighting in part, even more so if you don't have a front sight adjustment tool. And to compound it, remembering that up is down and down is up and left is right and so on, it can be a real Mother F'er to sight in. Nothing easy about it and it's a total guessing game. It also doesn't help that the rear sight has a pretty narrow slit and the front post is as big around as a tree trunk. If you were sighting in with surplus ammo, it's a "Kind of Close" proposition. Though it has been my experience that the groups get tighter with higher end, more expensive ammo. And I mean VISIBLY TIGHTER. As in "No question it's more accurate..." but still mediocre.

That said, the real Russian SKS's are solid as can be and shoot well with surplus ammo. But when I say well, I'm talking 6" to 8" groups at 100 yards. Minute of Man. American Eagle ammo shot 4" groups and I can't remember the other ammo, maybe Winchester? but it was spendy (like $17 at the time) for 7.62x39 and gave me 2-3" groups. It was ammo designed more for the bolt guns like Ruger was putting out. Actual hunting grade ammo. But 2-3" groups was the best I could pull.

Chinese SKS's aren't any better by a long shot. But when you have a hundred million Chinese launching lead with these things at once, you're bound to hit something...kill by attrition they always say.


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## bigdogbuc

csi-tech said:


> I love the SCAR. I can't afford to own one because when I needed a new roof that would be the first thing to go. I did not have, nor could I get my hands on go-no-go gauges for the Mosin so I set the rifle up in a lead sled and remotely fired the first few rounds. The spent casings were perfect with no bulging or malformation anywhere when compared to an unfired cartridge. Worked great.


And this ladies and gentlemen is another way to do it. But also know this can possibly cause damage to your rifle that could have otherwise been prevented if there actually was a head space issue. Not likely on a Mosin as it takes roughly a half stick of dynamite to blow one up...so definitely look at your cases. They can also tell you everything you need to know if you know how to "read" them!

I like the ingenuity C-T...!!!!


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## Dalarast

bigdogbuc said:


> ALOT OF AWESOME INFORMATION


Great post and yeah.. what you said!

Inor -

As far as worrying about the wife shooting the Mosin there is, in addition to what bigdocbuc suggested, other stock accessories that will reduce the kick of the rifle as well. If you want to keep the weapon looking classic - a simple buttpad will do wonders for the kick.

I imagine your wife may have more firearms firing than my wife; but I know the mosin was a great rifle for my rifle to shoot (outside of a .22) due to she had to take her time for each shot. This was both due to it being a bolt and not semi and also to respect the kick. After each round, she would reset herself and let a round out, reset, and set up again until she got comfortable with it. When I get my other mosin setup properly I hope that it will be a smoother weapon for long range and hoping my wife doesn't take it from me


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## bernzzii

I enjoy taking out both my SKS and mosin. If I had to pick the one that I enjoy more I would have to go with the mosin. 
Might have to take mine out this weekend now that I'm thinking about it..


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## Notsoyoung

bernzzii said:


> I enjoy taking out both my SKS and mosin. If I had to pick the one that I enjoy more I would have to go with the mosin.
> Might have to take mine out this weekend now that I'm thinking about it..


I know what you mean, after this thread I find that I have a strong urge to take my Mosin out and firing off a few rounds.

One of the reasons, not the main one, that I like firing bolt action rifles is that you naturally focus allot more at hitting your target with every shot. I grew up and learned how to shoot using bolt action rifles and believe that helped a whole lot when I later started firing semi-autos. Getting allot of rounds down range may be important, but it is more important to hit what you are aiming at.

In a gunfight the winner is usually the one who hits the other guy first, not who fires the most rounds..... of course ideally you will be the one who does both.


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## Inor

Thanks all for the great info. I think I will definitely be buying a No-Go gauge before I go shopping though. That is a great idea. Also the idea of using heat to remove the commie goo (cosmoline)!

That is why I love you guys. Everything worth knowing (and some stuff not worth knowing) can be found on the Prepper Forums!


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## catfisherman

I have a Mosin Nagant that I traded for a few years ago . I also redone it all and it is simple to take apart and clean properly . Ammo is cheap and easy to find around here . 25 miles up the road Dunhams sporting goods sells 440 round cans for $99 and comes with the opener . If you shoot the old surplus ammo just make sure you clean the gun good after .


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## Boss Dog

You can get an AK for not much more than an SKS, that's how I went.

On the Mosin, I found a video on youtube on how to disassemble the bolt and cleaned it and the receiver with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. 
Then lubed it with Mobile-1 motor oil... smooth as silk!

If you use a lot of surplus ammo, you will need to clean the chamber fairly often to remove the lacquer that is applied to the steel cases.


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## bigdogbuc

Boss Dog said:


> You can get an AK for not much more than an SKS, that's how I went.
> 
> On the Mosin, I found a video on youtube on how to disassemble the bolt and cleaned it and the receiver with non-chlorinated brake cleaner.
> Then lubed it with Mobile-1 motor oil... smooth as silk!
> 
> If you use a lot of surplus ammo, you will need to clean the chamber fairly often to remove the lacquer that is applied to the steel cases.


With the older stuff in the tins, lacquer can be a consideration, but it takes awhile. Generally, if you clean your rifle after each outing (ideal), it doesn't become a problem. On newer production ammo, like Tula, Wolf, Silver Bear etc., even though it's steel cased, it has a Polymer based coating, not lacquer, and uses non-corrosive primers.


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## Dalarast

So I went ahead and ordered a Rock Solid Industries welded bent bold and scope mount from their site today. They finally had it in and it was the last item (besides a new stock) that I needed to complete my build on my nagant. Friends who used this company had nothing but good things about them and this product (superior to the ATI kit due to its welded and no "jiggle" or feel of give of the ATI). In a few months I will give a review


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## alterego

Well we went to the neighbors house this afternoon and he was showing me an M44 that a guy traded him for trading out a transmission. It was pretty cool. I like this version and have never handled one before. Always the longer version in the local gander mountain. I have been digging around the Internet Sales locations and most are 300 plus. Does any one know where an m44 is selling for less than 200 like the m91s are going for?


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## Diver

alterego said:


> Well we went to the neighbors house this afternoon and he was showing me an M44 that a guy traded him for trading out a transmission. It was pretty cool. I like this version and have never handled one before. Always the longer version in the local gander mountain. I have been digging around the Internet Sales locations and most are 300 plus. Does any one know where an m44 is selling for less than 200 like the m91s are going for?


The M44s around here are much more expensive than the 91/30s. They were $2-300 before Sandy Hook.


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## Smitty901

If you suspect you are firing corrosive ammo even Ammo with just corrosive primers the best way to clean your weapon is hot-warm soapy water and rinse. Dry than clean as normal. 
Long forgotten by some and others never had to deal with it but at one time it was common as most ammo was corrosive. We cleaned weapon everyday for 3 days after range days to make sure the corrosive powders did not damage them.

How to test it


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## Moonshinedave

They tell me Windex, because of it's ammonia base is what to use. Basically, it's the salt in the powder, or so I've been told.


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## reloader7.62

Moonshinedave said:


> They tell me Windex, because of it's ammonia base is what to use. Basically, it's the salt in the powder, or so I've been told.


With respect there are two problems with this statement,one the powder is not the corrosive component of the ammunition and two there is very little to no ammonia in Windex brand window cleaner.

Corrosive ammo has been around for a long time and the corrosive salts in the primer are what makes the ammo last and store so long under ideal conditions,the US didn't start to phase out corrosive ammo in the 30-06 and 45 ACP Ball ammo until the 1950's http://www.odcmp.org/1101/USGI.pdf

As far as corrosive ammo the primer is the culprit,when fired it leave behind a residue of potassium chloride and sodium chloride ie Salt which will attract moisture to anything it attaches itself to. This is what causes the corrosion and rust and the higher the moisture content of the air the faster the process takes place. In dry / arid climates it may take awhile in humid climates it can start within the hour.

The best way to remove the corrosive salts is to flush it off the metal surfaces and the most simple and effective way to do that is with plain old water with a few drops of dish soap added. Clean all the metal parts throughly with the cheap and basically free cleaner the use your more expensive commercial cleaners for the final cleaning. It also a god idea to go back and check behind yourself a day or two later to make sure you got it all especially if you plan on storing the firearm long term.

As to Windex brand cleaner as mentioned it basically 99% water with a little blue coloring and alcohol added to give it color and smell some of the off brands do contain some traces of ammonia but there is not enough to do much good if any other than just using it as a cleaning agent which is perfectly fine to do if that want you want to use.


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## Notsoyoung

If you use Windex, you need to get the Windex with ammonia, not just the regular one. The one with ammonia is not blue. I have used it to clean my muzzle loader if I don't have access to hot soapy water, like when I go hunting and spend a couple of days without access to hot running water. I just put some in a smaller plastic bottle.

I have long thought that learning to shoot as a kid using a bolt action rifle had at least one major advantage in that it taught you to make the first round count, and I therefore learned good marksmanship. 

IMO if there ever is a SHTF situation, 50 years later you won't see a whole lot of AK's or AR's, if you see any firearms at all. If you do you will see things like the Mosin, the 03's, the Enfields, and similar firearms. Those that are rugged as hell and seldom need replacement parts. I also think that it won't take that many years before firearms are used more for getting food then for self defense, although as long as there are more then 1 person in an area self defense will be a concern.


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## Moonshinedave

I am a big fan of YouTube, a lot of useful information out there, and of course, a lot of bs, just like in real life. I have seen many videos by IraqVeteren8888, he really seems to know his stuff. Matter of fact a lot of the tweeks I got for the Mosin I learned from his videos. Believe it or not it's your choice, but here's his video on cleaning corrosive residue from weapons.


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## Smitty901

Heading to town in a bit may just for the heck of it see what they are asking for Mosin's I know they normally have a few in the rack.
As for corrosive ammo and primers think about this,. Those of us that own older 1903's and M1's have weapons that fired a lot of corrosive ammo and primers. Why are they still to this day in great shape? Soap and water that is how they were cleaned. It was common to have wash barrels filled with hot water and soap then rinse barrels.
They were dried then oiled and cleaned. Most of my shooting life we never used any of that fancy stuff. In fact carb cleaners and the like remove the protective coat tha CLP leaves.


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## csi-tech

Always spray mine down with muzzleloader cleaner at the range when I'm done.


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## Smitty901

LGS shop aka Fleet Farm Mosin 91/30 everyday price is $139.00 in stock. Other large place Cabela's everyday price $199.00 sale price is $139.00


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## ghostman

I myself am looking in to getting a mosin I like the m44 instead of the others because its much more shorter and compact


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