# Starvation and Socialism



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/26/nicolas-maduro-donald-trump-venezuela-hunger

The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of opm (other people's money).


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

And yet there are still those who will line up to vote for "democratic socialism," because that's what all the other cool kids on campus are doing.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

warrior4 said:


> And yet there are still those who will line up to vote for "democratic socialism," because that's what all the other cool kids on campus are doing.


 Our education system has sold them a lie is why they fall for it. History has been rewritten by ignoring truth.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> Our education system has sold them a lie is why they fall for it. History has been rewritten by ignoring truth.


One of the main reasons I'm very glad I went to private Christian college that was actually pretty conservative when you asked around. Granted I don't know what the campus was like during the last election cycle. However I was a student when W Bush went into Iraq. While there were a few quite outspoken bleeding heart liberals on campus who tried to raise a fuss, the majority of the student body was in support of the President. It was a good thing.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

warrior4 said:


> One of the main reasons I'm very glad I went to private Christian college that was actually pretty conservative when you asked around. Granted I don't know what the campus was like during the last election cycle. However I was a student when W Bush went into Iraq. While there were a few quite outspoken bleeding heart liberals on campus who tried to raise a fuss, the majority of the student body was in support of the President. It was a good thing.


 Bush did not go To Iraq. (The second bush did actually go to Iraq) Bunch of us went on his orders, some of us more than once. You were served well by avoid a public university.


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## agmccall (Jan 26, 2017)

To quote Winston Churchill

_"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."_

al


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

All of the above pretty much sums it up, thanks....


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

agmccall said:


> To quote Winston Churchill
> 
> _"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."_
> 
> al


One of my many favorite quotes from Churchill.

@Smitty901 is correct in saying that our education system is partly culpable for the current trend towards socialism among our own younger generation. I say partly because we, as a nation, allowed it to happen.

Another quote that is more on point.



> "Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world."
> 
> ― Vladimir Lenin


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Ever notice that darn few of the so called leaders that sell socialism don't live it.
Bernie, rich load guy two huge homes lives off tax payers and those seeking favor from him through his connection and wife.
Al Gore you know the story
Pelosi while selling you a bill of goods on mortgages , her and her husband cleaned up on SF market
Obama both of them. Socialism for you but not us.
We could go on for days, but you should figure it out


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

70% of folks under 40 were completely brainwarshed by Liberal Progressive Socialist Teachers & Profs from pre school to post grad school .


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

You guys are confused we do not have socialism or politicians that are suggesting moving from a capitalist free market system to socialism . Widen your reading list understand you are getting a very narrow view that is extremely skewed. Skewed far left or far right is not a good view to have.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

RJAMES said:


> You guys are confused we do not have socialism or politicians that are suggesting moving from a capitalist free market system to socialism . Widen your reading list understand you are getting a very narrow view that is extremely skewed. Skewed far left or far right is not a good view to have.


Poor poor ignorant @RJAMES...

I suggest you study up on exactly what defines Socialism. Especially the definition of Democratic Socialism.

Areas of Study that may help you better understand;

FDR
New Deal
Government Ownership of the means of Production
Welfare State
Social Security
Government Pensions
Minimum Wage
Regulation of Labor
Government Schools
Medicaid/ACA

And did I mention Social Security? lain:

I could go on and on, but the above should get your started. However, I do have a querstion or three...

*No, Slippy; you aren't asking those questions. Been a while since you've been in the penalty box; are you homesick? :vs_laugh: *
Your friend, @Denton

Drats, spoiled again by @Denton...

Slippy :vs_wave:


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

@Slippy is correct. The USA does have a number of socialist schemes in place that we are required to participate in reguardless if is a good idea or not. These are ienforced by the threat of incarceration if one does not obediently participate. No freedom of choice. And there are many and I believe a majority that want more. More control and more of your individual labor, property, freedom and rights to make it all happen.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Our education system has sold them a lie is why they fall for it. History has been rewritten by ignoring truth.


Our SOCIALIST education system.

Frankly, when you put the government in charge of Education, how can you expect anything but "government is good, more government is better" to come out of the schools?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I catch a lot of hell on this point, but I don't say the "Pledge Of Allegiance".

It's not because I hate my country, or because I have some weird group I support... it's because I am anti-socialist.

The Pledge was written by a socialist, his name was Francis Bellamy (CLICKY) and the fact that he was an avowed socialist is not in dispute.

It was written not to show patriotism, but rather to sell flags. I kid you not. It was written as a cynical attempt, by a socialist, to generate business for the company he worked for, to sell US Flags to schools. If you don't know the story, click the link above, it's fascinating.

Basically, the kids were told to say the pledge while saluting the American Flag (the flag purchased from Bellamy's employer). He outlined a particular salute to be used, and it was used up until the 1940's in darned near every public school room in America:









That's not a German classroom, folks, that's in the good ole USA.

I'm not going to blindly pledge blanket allegiance to ANYTHING made by man, I'm sorry if that offends but it's the way it is.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I catch a lot of hell on this point, but I don't say the "Pledge Of Allegiance".
> 
> It's not because I hate my country, or because I have some weird group I support... it's because I am anti-socialist.
> 
> ...


I've said it before, and I'll say it, again. Had you asked Thomas Jefferson what he was, he would have quickly let you know that he was a Virginian.


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## 23897 (Apr 18, 2017)

Denton said:


> I've said it before, and I'll say it, again. Had you asked Thomas Jefferson what he was, he would have quickly let you know that he was a Virginian.


I thought he was born 13 April? That makes him an Aries.



Sent from my iPhone using Technology whilst it still exists.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

fangfarrier said:


> I thought he was born 13 April? That makes him an Aries.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Technology whilst it still exists.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Gator Monroe said:


> 70% of folks under 40 were completely brainwarshed by Liberal Progressive Socialist Teachers & Profs from pre school to post grad school .


For that statement to be true, 70% of the people under 40 would have to have made it into a post graduate program, and that's not even close to true.

87% of all statistics are made up on the spot.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I catch a lot of hell on this point, but I don't say the "Pledge Of Allegiance".
> 
> It's not because I hate my country, or because I have some weird group I support... it's because I am anti-socialist.
> 
> ...


That my friend was educational!


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Camel923 said:


> @*Slippy* is correct. The USA does have a number of socialist schemes in place that we are required to participate in reguardless if is a good idea or not. These are ienforced by the threat of incarceration if one does not obediently participate. No freedom of choice. And there are many and I believe a majority that want more. More control and more of your individual labor, property, freedom and rights to make it all happen.


Actually, we have a member of the Socialist party on our city council. Her name is Kshama Sawant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kshama_Sawant

Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. The United States does, indeed, have an active Socialist party, it just isn't very successful.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> Actually, we have a member of the Socialist party on our city council. Her name is Kshama Sawant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kshama_Sawant
> 
> Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. The United States does, indeed, have an active Socialist party, it just isn't very successful.


But I'm sure you have a plan to help further their agenda. :vs_closedeyes:


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I catch a lot of hell on this point, but I don't say the "Pledge Of Allegiance".


Not from me.

My objection is that it doesn't include atheist or agnostics, but the outcome is the same.

Not to mention that pledging allegiance _to a flag_ is un-American.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

inceptor said:


> But I'm sure you have a plan to help further their agenda. :vs_closedeyes:


Nah, I have NFL games to watch.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Where are all the SJW's demanding Venezuela feed it's people? Where are the celebrities wearing colored wristbands or ribbons in solidarity of Venezuela? Where is our media doing special coverage, or hell even writing regular articles about the plight of the people of Venezuela? 

You don't see that because it doesn't forward their agenda here. They don't care about the downtrodden or people in general. The Liberals and their lapdog media only care about their agenda of changing this country into a socialist paradise. They won't dare shine a light on Venezuela because it shows socialism does not work!


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Not only does it not work, it concentrates a greater amount of power in the hands of the police than the police have here.

City Hall needs to keep the lights on, the water flowing, the potholes filled and then shut up and leave us alone.


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

Jammer Six said:


> Actually, we have a member of the Socialist party on our city council. Her name is Kshama Sawant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kshama_Sawant
> 
> Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. The United States does, indeed, have an active Socialist party, it just isn't very successful.


Isn't that the totally unhinged lady being sued by some cops for publicly calling them murders?


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

She's actually dangerously intelligent, but yes, that's her.

She didn't actually call them murderers, she said they had carried out a "brutal murder".


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

Many of the totally unhinged ones are smart. Kind of like Kamala Harris who I suspect is just warming up for a run at destroying the country.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

White Shadow said:


> Many of the totally unhinged ones are smart. Kind of like Kamala Harris who I suspect is just warming up for a run at destroying the country.


Yeah. It's a mistake to underestimate them. I suspect that's one of the reasons Sawant got elected.

I don't know anything about Kamala Harris.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

I know about her and she makes Obama look middle right politically . Imagine Sheila Jackson Lee with three masters and a Ph.D. With a Maoist bent and a more sophisticated upbringing ...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> Not only does it not work, it concentrates a greater amount of power in the hands of the police than the police have here.
> 
> City Hall needs to keep the lights on, the water flowing, the potholes filled and then shut up and leave us alone.


My knees are weak; I may faint. We agree.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> For that statement to be true, 70% of the people under 40 would have to have made it into a post graduate program, and that's not even close to true.
> 
> 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot.


Not really, as they are doing a jam-up job, all the way into high school.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I certainly understand what my good friend @Salt-N-Pepper is espousing and agree with him.

However, in later times, having school children recite the Pledge of Allegiance, carried a certain amount of Patriotism toward a symbol of freedom.

But again, Salty is correct in a historical and ideological view.



Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I catch a lot of hell on this point, but I don't say the "Pledge Of Allegiance".
> 
> It's not because I hate my country, or because I have some weird group I support... it's because I am anti-socialist.
> 
> ...


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I certainly understand what my good friend @Salt-N-Pepper is espousing and agree with him.
> 
> However, in later times, having school children recite the Pledge of Allegiance, carried a certain amount of Patriotism toward a symbol of freedom.
> 
> But again, Salty is correct in a historical and ideological view.


I personally am not a fan of "patriotism".

Again, it's not because I don't like my country... I think my country is the best country in the world and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else... but to me, patriotism is a tool to be used to manipulate people.

Rather than teaching people to be patriotic, I would rather teach people to think about whether what the country is doing actually makes sense.

I make no bones about the fact that I am an anti-socialist person, that I think big government is a very, very bad thing and that I think we should start disbanding about 99 percent of what the government does. Right?

Patriotism leads people to set aside the search for the truth in favor of buying what people who want you to "think patriotically... you know, the RIGHT way..." are selling, whether it's actually morally right or wrong.

Patriotism lead us into several wars we never should have been in, and got a lot of good men and women killed or maimed for life, and a lot more than than those that had physical wounds it lead to a lot of our best and brightest young people coming home with post traumatic injury...

Me? I'll skip it, and evaluate everything on it's own merit.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I personally am not a fan of "patriotism".
> 
> Again, it's not because I don't like my country... I think my country is the best country in the world and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else... but to me, patriotism is a tool to be used to manipulate people.


I still consider myself a patriot. I am a patriot to the original idea of this country and the Constitution. But you are correct in that now patriotism is being used as a tool.



Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Rather than teaching people to be patriotic, I would rather teach people to think about whether what the country is doing actually makes sense.
> 
> I make no bones about the fact that I am an anti-socialist person, that I think big government is a very, very bad thing and that I think we should start disbanding about 99 percent of what the government does. Right?
> 
> ...


I disagree that patriotism got into several wars. That was egotism, politics and greed.

Egotism, politics and greed are also what has expanded government and control. They expand their control by telling many they are rightfully entitled to many things. Income, food and medical care are all now being touted as rights belonging to those who agree. Lincoln started the expansion of government control, FDR pushed it much farther then LBJ sealed the deal.

What is being past off now as patriotism is nothing more than political correctness.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I still consider myself a patriot. I am a patriot to the original idea of this country and the Constitution. But you are correct in that now patriotism is being used as a tool.
> 
> I disagree that patriotism got into several wars. That was egotism, politics and greed.
> 
> ...


Patriotism, as they defined it, whipped our countrymen into a froth. You were unpatriotic and weren't behind the troops if you didn't wave the flag until you snapped an arm bone. If you dared question if going to war in Afghanistan, and then out of the blue, Iraq, were good ideas and not knee-jerk decisions (or worse), you were viewed as being sympathetic to the other side.

Your idea of patriotism is the same as mind, but it is blind patriotism to which Salty refers.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Deriding patriotism seems trendy now too ( Like siding with the Palestinians / Arabs over Israel ) no matter how you guys spin it Your derision and eschewing of Patriotism is very telling of your Political leanings .


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Gator Monroe said:


> Deriding patriotism seems trendy now too ( Like siding with the Palestinians / Arabs over Israel ) no matter how you guys spin it Your derision and eschewing of Patriotism is very telling of your Political leanings .


I have never hidden my political leaning. I lean toward the Constitution. No party affiliation, I think they are all corrupt. I believe in Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and others. I don't believe that they weren't flawed people like the rest of us, just good, mostly honest, God fearing people.

But that's probably why they too will be wiped from history. Just like they are doing with Lee and Jackson.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

@Gator Monroe, what @inceptor said.

As far as my political leanings, did you guess Constitution Party?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Gator Monroe said:


> Deriding patriotism seems trendy now too ( Like siding with the Palestinians / Arabs over Israel ) no matter how you guys spin it Your derision and eschewing of Patriotism is very telling of your Political leanings .


I would hope that all of my opinions are very telling of my political leanings.

I've never hidden the fact that I am an anarchist-leaning-libertarian. I don't believe that empowering the government to piss on our rights is a good thing, I admit it freely. I also don't agree with the government's PR machines, of which selling patriotism to support the continued growth of federal power is a major part.

Some people want to honor our troops by waving flags and spouting pledges of loyalty... I want to honor our troops by getting them the hell out of the stupid wars they were placed in, and then KEEPING them out of more unnessary wars.

Truth is, we live in a hostile world and we will always have a need for self defense, and I am 100 percent behind that. Having said that, I've had several personal friends, including one young man I watched grow from a baby, come home in a casket from a war we should never have been in, and another veteran friend who took his own life because of how messed up he was mentally from post traumatic stress injury.

Enough.

That's not what America is supposed to be about... and that's what they are selling with all the patriotic flag waving....

Not for me, count me out.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

inceptor said:


> But that's probably why they too will be wiped from history. Just like they are doing with Lee and Jackson.


You gotta admit, Jackson was a bit of a flake... OK, let me rephrase that... he was a (mostly) highly functional raving lunatic...


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

Socialism works great just ask the third Reich or also know as National Socialist German Workers' Party OR AKA Nazi Germany, NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!
and to the guy who has NFL to watch -that excuse is exactly how these idiots stole your freedoms they just slipped in when you were not looking and took it from you!!!!


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I would hope that all of my opinions are very telling of my political leanings.
> 
> I've never hidden the fact that I am an anarchist-leaning-libertarian. I don't believe that empowering the government to piss on our rights is a good thing, I admit it freely. I also don't agree with the government's PR machines, of which selling patriotism to support the continued growth of federal power is a major part.
> 
> ...


For me the flag is the symbol of the ideals of America, not the government that is trying to destroy it. I can personally keep my flag waving separate from political parties, federal entities, warmongers, etc. I believe the symbol of the nation in the flag belongs to the people, not the government and should be respected. I can see where others have different opinions on what it represents, but I still want to stomp the snot out of people who burn, walk on, or otherwise desecrate the flag.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I think it's important to make the distinction between patriotism and nationalism, because they're essentially two different things. Nationalism focuses on the government. Patriotism is all about being grateful to those fellow Americans who have served us, and to whom we're forever indebted.

_"Today patriotism has come to mean blind support for the government and its policies. In earlier times patriotism meant having the willingness and courage to challenge government policies regardless of popular perceptions."_
Ron Paul


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## JTYCPA (Aug 28, 2017)

The "Cool Kids" will probably be among the first to go in a SHTF. They won't even know how to refill their Evian bottle or make a mocha latte. Pls forgive my spelling.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

White Shadow said:


> For me the flag is the symbol of the ideals of America, not the government that is trying to destroy it. I can personally keep my flag waving separate from political parties, federal entities, warmongers, etc. I believe the symbol of the nation in the flag belongs to the people, not the government and should be respected. I can see where others have different opinions on what it represents, but I still want to stomp the snot out of people who burn, walk on, or otherwise desecrate the flag.


I personally would never harm a flag in any way, it's rude.

BTW I DO fly an American flag at my house, the Bennington flag, because it's the last flag that flew over America that wasn't tainted by the gubbment's anti-liberty actions.









THAT is a flag we all can be proud of, a flag of freedom fight over oppression.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Annie said:


> I think it's important to make the distinction between patriotism and nationalism, because they're essentially two different things. Nationalism focuses on the government. Patriotism is all about being grateful to those fellow Americans who have served us, and to whom we're forever indebted.
> 
> _"Today patriotism has come to mean blind support for the government and its policies. In earlier times patriotism meant having the willingness and courage to challenge government policies regardless of popular perceptions."_
> Ron Paul


I would agree that is what Patriotism is SUPPOSED to mean, but the meaning of the word has been corrupted (as so many things are).


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I would agree that is what Patriotism is SUPPOSED to mean, but the meaning of the word has been corrupted (as so many things are).


Corrupted by who & how & when did this begin ?


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I would hope that all of my opinions are very telling of my political leanings.
> 
> I've never hidden the fact that I am an anarchist-leaning-libertarian. I don't believe that empowering the government to piss on our rights is a good thing, I admit it freely. I also don't agree with the government's PR machines, of which selling patriotism to support the continued growth of federal power is a major part.
> 
> ...


 But count you in to march behind The Black Bloc Flag (Along with Gay Rainbow Flags and a smattering of Palestinian/Arab and Mexican Flags ) carried by your fellow Libertarian Anarchists ...


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Gator Monroe said:


> Corrupted by who & how & when did this begin ?


Corrupted by LOTS of people, I'm not going to give an American History class here because it's been abused since the first days of the Republic until the present. War of 1812 largely caused by abused patriotism. Mexican war? Same. Civil War? Same on both sides. Spanish American war? Totally. US intervention in WW1? Check out the Sedition acts. I could go on and on and on.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Gator Monroe said:


> But count you in to march behind The Black Bloc Flag (Along with Gay Rainbow Flags and a smattering of Palestinian/Arab and Mexican Flags ) carried by your fellow Libertarian Anarchists ...


Seriously, dude, you are cracking me up here... me? March in a "movement" for some group I couldn't give a damn about? Seriously?

Thanks, that's the best laugh I had all day.

I DO NOT do politics in any way, shape or form. I don't watch the news. I don't give one flying $#%* who's marching about what, where or why.

I take care of my own, right here. The rest of y'all can take care of yourselves, or not, as you see fit. I sure as HELL am not going to try to convince you otherwise, that's your business.

Salty marching in a political march? Man, that's the funniest thing I have heard in a very long time. Thanks for the laugh.


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