# SHTF - Doing what needs to be done?



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

So as not to hijack the salvage V looting thread

here are my thoughts on people that say they will do ANYTHING or will DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE after SHTF

If you are "really prepared" (by this I mean 1 year of preps plus the ability and knowledge to be self sufficient) there will be no need to become a predator... or venture out during the early stages of the event

look at the events.

*Dollar collapse* - preppers are most likely going to stay home and be guarding their homes.... within a shorts period of time most if not all food, meds, water, etc will be gone and there will be a pile of bodies at walmart and sears

*Plague* - again..preppers are going to staying at home and away from the infected

*EMP* - again..preppers will be best served staying at home

Again if you are prepared -I can not think of a reason to venture into the confusion to risk being killed

the folks with no supplies will be killing others with few supplies - or in some cases they will find a prepper family and kill them.. but the more times a person or group attack a prepared family the more they will lose members until they are ALL DEAD

Most preppers I know will fight to the death to protect their family and supplies.. so there will be no making us leave empty handed to become one of the zombies...

Most preppers I know are not going to leave home during a SHTF event to go get ONE MORE can of Spam

Molon Labe is not just about guns.. it is also about our preps.. in SHTF event my family will be dead within a short period of time without supplies.. so if you want to take what I have... come big or stay home... you will have to kill me if you want to TAKE what I have....

Now I would gladly give you a peanut butter sandwich... But I will not bend my knee to a demand for food from people that failed to prepare.

So as to DOING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE - I am doing that today - because what needs to be done is prepare..Food, Water, Shelter, Security, Medical.

*in closing and my MAIN POINT.. there are three times to DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE

1. Before it happens - Smart and safe
2. As it is happening - Not Smart and Not safe
3. After it has happened and things have calmed down - most supplies (food, gas, water, meds, ammo, etc) will be gone, burnt, looted, broken.*


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I guess you have it pretty well and correctly covered.

But, I will have to go and get one last gallon of milk(joke).
As said before, I have enough put away for us for five years.
Have the skill's and ability to fix or build just about anything.
My plan is to stay put and defend it to the death.
I spend about 100-300 a month on whatever I think is needed to enhance the existing preps.
I don't think I will live much past that time anyways, based on family genetics.
Have already outlived the average male family members passings by 12 years.
If needed i can go off grid tomorrow and stay that way.
The only thing that would be missed would be the tv.
I don't need the computer or a cell phone which i have but never use, save about 5 min's a month.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Covered it pretty well. This needs repeating I will not come for what is yours . It will not end well for you if you come for what is ours. We will extend charity where we can .


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## THEGIMP (Sep 28, 2015)

Yep, it sickens me when I here posts touting "do what I gotta do". Sounds like a liberal retard to me. I'm sure we will see em on the news looting a Walmart with a 65" flat screen in hand and a big goofy grin. Fact is, when their poor starving kids have driven them to drive my neighbor's SUV through my house and burn it to the ground, they are gonna live for what? one extra day? They might as well start carving up our bodies and eating us too, or they are wasting a lot of resources. My bet is if you are too lazy to properly prepare, and don't have the ability to survive on you own without taking from others, you will not be making it 10 steps off your own property.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd make one last run to get what I can, before I can't. Wouldn't take any risks but I have a few ideas that I assume others haven't thought of in my area. I'm always looking. Extra supplies are always welcome. 

Once the Z's are out get home and quit messing around. Then like most lock and load and bar the door. Go into survival mode. Pretty much like others stated above.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Stop antagonizing. You clearly don't comprehend what we mean when we say we will do what needs to be done. Regardless of our descriptions of what we mean, you choose willful omission of the facts, and pretend to know some alternative to be true, as if you're omnipotent.
I will try one FINAL time to make it clear to you, and stop this witch hunt...
I will NOT be seeking to murder anyone. Period. End of statement.
Because I am not an omnipotent being, I do not pretend to know that my future is secure with the preps I have. Bad things can happen that wipe them out. I can't plan for all scenarios. No one can. To believe otherwise is arrogant and foolish.
To that end, if I no longer have the resources at my disposal to feed my family, I WILL seek out such resources, at varying degrees of acceptable risk, to ensure they survive. I will not attack others to take what they have, but if no owner is in sight, it is free game when my children are starving. Call it anything you like. Words are meaningless when my 4 year old is dying.
You took it as "smirky" in the other thread, but it is a cold and hard reality. You are willing to watch your family die a long and horrid death as their own body consumes them. You have your reasons.
I am not willing to do the same. If I can give them one more day of life, it is worth it.
I have never claimed that "what needs to be done" would include offensive attack. YOU fabricated that strawman, and tried to hang it on me. I stated that, if I needed to steal to feed my family, and faced death as a result(got caught), I would defend my life. I am no good to them dead, and would not just accept it.
I will not seek confrontation. I will avoid others at all costs.
But I WILL do what a father must to keep his children alive.

That is all. There is no more. Continue your witch hunt, or accept my position and move on. It makes no real difference.
I don't pretend to know the future. I don't limit my options based on unknowns
And I certainly don't claim to know what I will and won't do in a situation I've never faced before.
To believe such is dangerous and illogical. You cannot know what you do not know. This is a truth. It is irrefutable. You can hope. You can wish. You can expect. But you cannot know. Period.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

I won't hurt or threaten a person to take what they have. But let's be real. If I came across a house with no one in it I'm going into it. And I would not care. Since this is all what ifs and other such fiction what I say here is irrelevant. I do like the question it poses though I can't say for certain what I would do in this fictitious scenario any more than I would if a zombie infestation occurred. I think luck will have a big part in how the outcome goes regardless of the preparation level. If this scenario were say, a nuke, to your town? Nothing is going to save you. If the situation were a mob of 1000's? You join or you die taking a few sure. But your not going to make it. And if there are roving gangs they will work together to get a piece of the thing they can't get on their own. 

What ifs are good for personal reflection. But let's not try to hold water in it. Chances are you will go thirsty. Plans and all that make us feel good. But there are times where we simply are not in control. And we don't have a choice in it. And a years worth of food isn't gonna mean a damn.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

What is the point of this thread I missed the thesis?

Is this about morality in time of crisis in regard to people's property rights not being respected, as they will not be assumed but rather only enforceable by personal deterrence?


If you are dead without doing something then you do something, that is duress. I think that is universal with or without crisis as a guiding line of needs based actions when it deals with community unknowns.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I agree, if things go to hell, best to lay low, and let the crazies take care of each other.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

Pointless thread.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Will2 said:


> What is the point of this thread I missed the thesis?
> 
> Is this about morality in time of crisis in regard to people's property rights not being respected, as they will not be assumed but rather only enforceable by personal deterrence?
> 
> If you are dead without doing something then you do something, that is duress. I think that is universal with or without crisis as a guiding line of needs based actions when it deals with community unknowns.


Some one got his high and mighty hollier than thou panties in a wad over a series of comments made in another thread.

One thing that get's me is how many of you really and honestly think that you can go it alone in a SHTF scenario. I wish you all a lot of luck and no ill will, but you all need to stop and do a long hard reality check and honestly evaluate what you can realistically achieve.

M&M is right as far as when the SHTF occurs it's too late to start prepping. However K-Boy is correct that if your kids are starving, any farther will do what ever he needs to do to feed them.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I would say just agree to disagree, but there are too many variables and unknowns to even qualify a factual debate on a scenario that will be highly driven by human emotions for the survival of one's self and family.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

I like the idea of thinking this through for yourself. But its not fair to pass judgement on someone for a thought in a moment on a "what if" - its purely fictional. Its about as relevant as what a person thinks of the lord of the rings movies. Its pure fiction. 

I find the more bluster and fuss one makes the more they are trying to convince themselves. You certainly arent obligated to agree and or correct them.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

TacticalCanuck said:


> I like the idea of thinking this through for yourself.


me too - but it seems some others are disappointed I do not adhere to their way of thinking



TacticalCanuck said:


> But its not fair to pass judgement on someone for a thought in a moment on a "what if" - its purely fictional.


We chat about stuff on here.. and frankly MY POINT is the Main idea behind ALL PREPPERS... DO IT NOW... Who can disagree with the idea that it is better to prepared NOW!!!



TacticalCanuck said:


> I find the more bluster and fuss one makes the more they are trying to convince themselves.


I would like to see the stats on that...LOL - do you think pro gun folks and anti abortion people are just convincing themselves of their stand or are they already convinced
I find that the person)s) that resort to ad ho·mi·nem attacks usually have the weakest argument



TacticalCanuck said:


> You certainly aren't obligated to agree and or correct them.


Nope but debate and back and forth is how we learn, share, persuade, and better form our arguments...

and again I would encourage people to have at least 1 years worth of food and essentials in order to get to harvest season

Early on stay close to home and surround yourself with freinds and family


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

I agree with you MM now is the time to prepare. Without doubt. And i do like a good debate. Its almost lost now, the non personalization of debate. 

I have always loved the quote "small minds discuss people, mediocore minds discuss events and great minds discuss ideas" 

I dont care what so and so thinks of whomever. I notice events and discuss the implications. But i love ideas. Its one of the main reasons i love and play music. Its a limitless pool of ideas and a language in which to share them.


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## jdjones3109 (Oct 28, 2015)

I've watched enough movies to know that there's always going to be someone or something that screws up a good plan. Sure you have 99.9% of what you need, but you'll have to venture out eventually to get that .1%, chase after some family member who decided to take a stroll around the neighborhood, check the area because you think the coast is clear because you haven't seen another person in xx days, etc.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jdjones3109 said:


> I've watched enough movies to know that there's *always* going to be someone or something that screws up a good plan. .


Sorry i had to chuckle that you are basing reality on your history of film watching...

here is the thing..every day 1,000's of planes take of and land, 1,000,000's of people drive to work, etc....they do not make the news because they arrived safely


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

Maybe it's because I don't have any skin in the game in whatever seems to be between MM and Kauboy, but honestly I don't thin k that the CORE of what they are saying is very far apart from each other. I thin k (my personal opinion) that there may be some bad blood coloring their perceptions of what each other is thinking? Just a guess.

But they both seem to agree that prep is essential. Protecting their families, themselves, and their preps is essential. And that, when possible/safe enough to assume the risk, outside exploration is permissible/necessary. Maybe they go to different lengths on what/where/etc, but it seems like they line up a good deal?

Maybe I'm just waxing a little too philosophical this morning, but I think there is a LOT more common ground then these 2 think there may be.  :encouragement:

Edited to add....
When Kauboy saus he'll "Do what he has to do" I don't take that as "I'll go murder my neighbors for their beans". I take it ore as an admission that he values the lives of his family and himself, and will do what needs to be done to ensure their safety/continues living vs sitting there and watching them wither away, get raped to death, etc. Nothing sinister there.

When MM says there is no need for extreme action with proper planning, I think he is correct as well, to a point. We all know that plans are great. GOOD plans take into effect many variables, and can give you options that push off the need for any direct action by a significant amount. Most of us also agree that "invisibility" (as much as is possible) is one of the best defenses. However, MM I'm betting that you would have no issue, in that moment, making the tough call, even if it ends someone else's life, to protect you and your's. If your family was starving, I bet you would risk the danger to go fine that can of spam that will let you live another day. Honestly, I think that's the crux of what is being discussed here.

Will you KILL another person to take their SPAM in that moment, that's entirely up to you. Some people will, other's won't. I will not claim to know any of you enough to answer that for you. Thankfully, I have not seen anyone directly say that they would MURDER for a can of beans. I'm sure it's out there, but I have not read every post in either of these threads. But I think you guys could find some common ground if you tones back the EXPECTATIONS you have of what each other is thinking, vs what you are actually saying.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Egyas said:


> Maybe it's because I don't have any skin in the game in whatever seems to be between MM and Kauboy, but honestly I don't thin k that the CORE of what they are saying is very far apart from each other. I thin k (my personal opinion) that there may be some bad blood coloring their perceptions of what each other is thinking? Just a guess.
> 
> But they both seem to agree that prep is essential. Protecting their families, themselves, and their preps is essential. And that, when possible/safe enough to assume the risk, outside exploration is permissible/necessary. Maybe they go to different lengths on what/where/etc, but it seems like they line up a good deal?
> 
> ...


I take him at his word. He has stated he is unwilling to do certain things. I believe him, though I question the illogical leap to *knowing* what one will do when never having faced the presented situation. He relies on his faith, and that is good. But we are all fallible, and simply cannot *know* what we will do. Peter *knew* he would never forsake Christ. To pretend to know the future is foolish.

On the other hand, MM misconstrues my words, and believes I am willing to do certain things that I've never claimed I would. THAT is what I take primary offense to. He then inflates those incorrect assumptions, and attempts to characterize me as someone who would murder children.(yes, that has been said in a long ago thread, I am not exaggerating)
It was this topic, roughly a year ago(?) that started whatever "bad blood" he has for me. It has been his misunderstanding of my position, and his reinforcement of that misunderstanding, that has perpetuated the problem.
Add to it, the fact that he won't let things go (as evidenced by the many off-shoot threads he starts to hammer home his version of the truth), and it makes for a difficult situation where any common ground can be found.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I take him at his word. He has stated he is unwilling to do certain things.


I take kauboy at his word. He has stated he is willing to do ANYTHING. I believe him!!!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I take kauboy at his word. He has stated he is willing to do ANYTHING. I believe him!!!


I see... so when I informed the group about my wife's position on the subject, that she would die before letting her kids die, you wanted to "know what she meant".
However, when *I* make a general statement, you are fine to just accept whatever whimsical fancy your mind can contemplate with regard to it. No need for specifics. Easier to demonize.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I see... so when I informed the group about my wife's position on the subject, that she would die before letting her kids die, you wanted to "know what she meant".
> However, when *I* make a general statement, you are fine to just accept whatever whimsical fancy your mind can contemplate with regard to it. No need for specifics. Easier to demonize.


Not sure why you can not let this go... I take you for your word that you will do anything to survive and your upset, confused, amazed, disconcerted, and distressed

take the nail out...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

You started the thread... Talk about letting go.

You're right, though. I shouldn't stress about it.
Somebody on the internet thinks something is true that isn't.
Nothing I can really do to change that.

Time for a daily affirmation, with Stewart Smalley:


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Okay times up (thank the good Lord) ...... let's measure and see who pissed the furthest.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I am sorry there is animosity between two good members. I really wish you two would attempt to work together; y'all are more alike than different and I blame a lot of the arguing on the fact that written communication makes it difficult for most people to get the whole thought across.

I am quite certain that I would not do anything the would violate the laws of nature and nature's God in order to keep my family alive, but I have to also realize I have never been put into such a situation, before.

I am reminded of a documented incident of cannibalism in 70 AD during the Roman siege of Jerusalem. The Jews were being starved to death. Men were led to a woman's place with the smell of roasting meat to find she had roasted and eaten half of her baby son.

Do you think this woman would have even conceived of doing such a thing only a year beforehand? Do you think she could have ever imagined that one day she would be rationalizing why her son would be better off dead?
The Siege of Jerusalem, AD 70, by Flavius Josephus

I pray God never tests me in such a manner. I pray I never even have to consider doing something bad in order to keep my family alive. I am preparing the best I can, today, and pray He picks up my slack when times go that bad. All I can do is rely on Him to strengthen me and my family.

Y'all play nice. Think about it. You two who are more alike than different are snarling at one another on a good day and on a message board.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> Y'all play nice. Think about it. You two who are more alike than different are snarling at one another on a good day and on a message board.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> I am sorry there is animosity between *two good member*s. I really wish you two would attempt to work together; y'all are more alike than different


I will stand in Agreeance with Denton on this one..............*Both members are committed to preparing and surviving and valuable to this board *and the rest of the members. I like different worldviews as they provoke though and allow me to do a gut check. But, I also know a similar worldview can be misunderstood by logistical and cultural differences as well.

I also know both members are capable of taking the high road, mending fences, and getting back to leading.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

I like both of em. It don't bother me they is bantering texts on the site. What does bother me is cheap pizza sauce. Man does that upset the stomach. If you have cheap pizza sauce in your preps, and a meteor hits a volcano and causes a tsunami of rock and lava and water that overthrows the cores of all nuclear power plants causing world wide overload and we end up with some freak Chernobyl zombie mad cow flesh eating bovines running around in loin cloths mooing madly at the mouth - you can keep it. I'll take my chances with the cows. And if MM and Kau were alone in a room with a bottle of wisers and some bandaids - I'm sure they would be inseparable after both were used up.


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## Renec (Dec 21, 2012)

Ok..I've avoided chiming in on this thread,since the last time devolved into a fiasco..just as this one has.
1- If you think you are going to survive without a community...well,good luck to you. You need outside help and ideas..it's why you are here on this very forum,correct?
2 - The pentagon report on an EMP scenario claims we will lose the vast majority of our population within weeks.There will be a lot of abandoned infrastructure and supplies left. Yes,even the "prepared preppers" won't be immune to disease and bad fortune. 
You've spent years managing you preps and setting up your homestead..then a wildfire moves thru and burns EVERYTHING to the ground. Now what are you gonna do?
3 - Salvaging is reclaiming infrastructure or supplies that have been abandoned. OBVIOUSLY abandoned...not,hey,there is nobody here atm,let's take their stuff!
I tend to fall on the side of the fence with K.I'll do what needs to be done. I know in what direction my moral compass points. (do no harm to others).
I believe that it will take a community to survive. Which is why I've found that community. And why I joined up with the local Community Preparedness teams. And why I've devoted 1 night every week and 2 Saturdays a month to teaching a bunch of strangers how to operate ham radios. How was I rewarded,you may ask? 14 of theses folks went and took their ham tech test on last saturday. And 14 passed.
yep,I'll still be that guy "looting" abandoned stuff - as I said once before,if you are gonna take that shot from a few hundred yards,better pray it counts... your moral high ground my be your undoing in the end.
On another note..there is a reason that humanity gathered together in small walled villages for most of recorded history.Think about that for a while.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

DENTON QUOTE,
I am reminded of a documented incident of cannibalism in 70 AD during the Roman siege of Jerusalem. The Jews were being starved to death. Men were led to a woman's place with the smell of roasting meat to find she had roasted and eaten half of her baby son. END QUOTE


Cannibalism, was not uncommon during the second world war in Europe.
The Russians at the siege of Stalingrad and Leningrad carved up bodies and ate them. 
Both those cities suffered the longest and deadliest sieges in modern history.

It was a short hop for the New Guinea natives going cannibal.
At the turn of the century they were still eating enemy tribe member, members.
They ate oriental on a regular basis, partaking of the hated japs as we moved through the islands killing what needed killing.

This could well happen here in a nationwide crisis.
Would you not feed your five year old part of some dead person to keep your child alive?
We see what kind of animals these "people" turn into with most services still functioning.
How will they be with nothing working as with an EMP strike?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Renec said:


> .. your moral high ground my be your undoing in the end.


It is not MY moral high ground.. It is what is written

If survival (life) is the measure used to determine when it is ok to start harming others by taking there stuff by threat of force or killing them to take their stuff..

this is why I take the stand I take

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 
Mat 16:25 For whosoever would save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it. 
Mat 16:26 For what shall a man be profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? or what shall a man give in exchange for his life? 
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds. 

Here is the main difference between Christians who are surrendered followers of the King and Others

Others will tell you - They do not know what they will!

Christians will tell you - They know what they will not do!


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## Renec (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm amused that you knew exactly whom I was referring to,M&M....seems you don't forget easily either.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I would say that anyone that can't behave on a common interest forum like this one needs to try a little harder. You don't have to agree with someone to be respectful. You don't have to be rude to tell it the way you see it.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Renec said:


> I'm amused that you knew exactly whom I was referring to,M&M....seems you don't forget easily either.


I did not KNOW you were talking about ME - but if you were talking about AR15's I would also answer


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> It is not MY moral high ground.. It is what is written
> 
> !


you mean that piece of the fairy tale that the Roman Emperor decided was ok and not the rest that was banned and consigned as heresy/

But on a lighter note. You never did answer my question on your trip to Florida with your family


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I am sure REAL OLD MAN added a highly welcomed and thought provoking comment that would be sure to enlighten and add to the discussion...

HOWEVER


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Interesting... Maine's not on my blocked list. His insight into other areas is informative. We just don't see anywhere near eye to eye on this.
Oh well.
C'est la vie.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I am sure Kauboy added a highly welcomed and thought provoking comment that would be sure to enlighten and add to the discussion...

HOWEVER

View attachment 13509


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I am sure REAL OLD MAN added a highly welcomed and thought provoking comment that would be sure to enlighten and add to the discussion...
> 
> HOWEVER
> 
> View attachment 13509





Maine-Marine said:


> I am sure Kauboy added a highly welcomed and thought provoking comment that would be sure to enlighten and add to the discussion...
> 
> HOWEVER
> 
> View attachment 13509


Deleted.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I wonder if he'll keep doing that every time...

This is a test.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

OK, this has devolved into abject stupidity. 

The only reason I am not going to walk away from this place is because I am not going to leave RPD by himself.

I should have locked this thread when it was suggested I do so. Now, I am.


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