# Titanium Plate Vs AR500 Plate



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Seems way cheaper and way better than AR500

any comments on this?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Admit Nothing / Deny Everything / Make Counter Accusations


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Will2 said:


> Seems way cheaper and way better than AR500
> 
> any comments on this?


For what?


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Titanium is WAY better than AR500, much stronger.

As most you know, my little sister Doris (who I think is mildly retarded) has some pressure problems with her lower digestive tract. We first got her some underwear made from AR500, but it started showing signs of distress when Doris' colon was only at 35,000 PSI. We replaced that with titanium underwear and she has gotten it as high as 55,000 PSI and the titanium underpants are still as good as new!

In addition, being that titanium is a solid metal, my brother-in-law, Fred Garvin (not his real name) was able to rig up some brass fittings to the titanium underwear so we could mount a flute on Doris' backside so she could also play beautiful music as she digests Vienna sausages and Pabst Blue Ribbon. We have not yet gotten the pressure regulation on the flute quite worked out yet. So right now she just sounds like a freight train whistle at a train crossing. But we fully expect we will perfect the technology soon.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Will2 said:


> Seems way cheaper and way better than AR500
> 
> any comments on this?


I've seen atleast one video indicating that Titanium at 1 1/2 inches can stop 50 calibre






It seems likely even thin plate will work against all handgun rounds.






Has anyone bought Titanium in place of steel for inserts?

If so is there an antispalling forumula that can be made and applied?

Titanium is also way lighter than steel so I don't understand why people are buying steel inserts if titanium is available for less than steel is retailing.

There isn't a lot of info on this, what grade is required etc... 
It seems steel might be something like 50x as heavy as titanium but titanium is harder?
Anyone got an explanation for this?

Here is an unclassified doc but wondering if anyone has actual insight

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a951655.pdf

Point of interest from the doc


> In adlition, for the purpose of obtaininL comparable terminal
> ballistic data on conventional steel arror of thicknesses having the
> same weight/unit area as the .4900" and .67c" thick titanium pletes,
> 0.284" and 0.388" thick steel plates were prepared from a typical alloy
> steel armor plate" heat treated to a hardness of 320 Brinell.


Thickness on these was like half the thickness for titanium compared to steel for the same weight to ballistic values.



> The results of the impact tests (see Table IV and Figure 4) made on
> Plate No. S-296-157 and No. PS-255-403 from the Bureau of Mines showed
> higher energy values for the one-half inch sintered plate than for the
> three-quarter inch unsintered plate.


This saying sintering, (making by layers applied through heat, a bit like 3d printing) provides higher energy values.



> Tempering Treatment
> The effect of a one hour heat treatment at 1500*F (815C) in salt
> followed by an air cool on the Bureau of 141nes Plate No. 256-404 is
> shown in Table V. The impact energy was lecreased while the hardness
> rose slightly.


Appears that quenching this with salt can harden it a bit like steel.



> In every case, bothat Co and 450 obliquity, the titanium plates had ballistic limits somewhat
> in excess of those of the steel plates of equivalent weight/unit area (see Table I1)


Seems clear that titanium performs better than steel. Now I am wondeirng what grade will be a higher Brinel rating?
Based on
http://www.supraalloys.com/titanium-grades.php

Its seems grade 1,2,3 titanium are not appropriate for armour purposes, and grade 4 may be more appropriate. Anyone have a background in metallurgy?

I am curious if Ti 6Al is as usuable as grade 4 if so?


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

Will2 said:


> I've seen atleast one video indicating that Titanium at 1 1/2 inches can stop 50 calibre
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are aware that the energy from a .50 BMG round will transfer enough energy to bust you up inside as well as burst organs...but on the bright side your CRAP will still be in the "BAG" possibly. At 300 yards it has almost 4 tons of Energy and is moving over 2300 FPS....I'd rather get hit with a Ford F-150 at 70 MPH as a pedestrian.


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

Simply put, titanium plate at 1/8"x12"x12" is $500.

AR500 in 3/8"x12"x20" is $90.

Also, as was so eloquently put above, the weight and ductility of the steel allows for more energy to dissipate. 

Finally, titanium is brittle and can shatter as opposed to distorting. 

Just my opinion.


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

AR500.com gear is very nice.
I'm not just a fan but one of many who've put our money where our mouth is.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Hehe, secret squirrel! :mrgreen:


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

How do you explain the first video, it seems to be greatly outperforming the steel.

I'm also wondering about costs as titanium is selling for less than that on ebay which is why I am wondering about the grade that the titanium plate is.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Will2 said:


> How do you explain the first video, it seems to be greatly outperforming the steel.


If its on the internet, it must be true.

Admit Nothing/ Deny Everything / Make Counter Accusations


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Just need to add that it appears the Russian Special forces and FSB do use titanium for their helmets

DEPOTMILITARY.COM - your source for best Russian original army and special forces equipment directly from warehouses.

I am very currious on the material composition, what methods were used and the grade of titanium used.

The original helmets, presumably are being sold on ebay on average for around $1500

titanium itself is selling for much less than that.

ALTYN | eBay


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Hehe, secret squirrel! :mrgreen:


Well, we can't take ourselves Too seriously !


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Admit Nothing / Deny Everything / Make Counter Accusations


I've heard that's the secret to a successful marriage.


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

The different grades of titanium are specific to the hardness, chemical resistivity and temperature "rating". Basically the lower the grade the softer. 

When comparing the videos to AR500 plate, you just can't. 

One is 1.25 - 1.5" of unknown grade and the other is 3/16" of an unknown grade.

The first test the plate is resting against something that isn't technically rigid so the energy of the rounds is expended in moving the plate until you get to a round that has so much energy and hardness that it blows through it.

The second test was probably grade 2 and .223 FMJ rounds went through it like butter.

AR500 Plate is 0.26" of specially hardened and coated steel, which stops .308 ammo.

If I was to spend money, I would get the tried and true AR500. Why chance an unknown?

Granted I would just rather not have the need for any armor . . . But you never know.

FYI the only true experience I have with Ti is in the chemical industry in which I cared more about its ability to resist corrosion at high temperatures. So, YMMV.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

darsk20 said:


> The different grades of titanium are specific to the hardness, chemical resistivity and temperature "rating". Basically the lower the grade the softer.
> 
> When comparing the videos to AR500 plate, you just can't.
> 
> ...


thanks for some insight..

here is more info on the Russia Titanium Altyn Helmet






I am currious if this is not superior product, why did they give it to their elites?


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

Sorry man. I'm not strapping up with titanium from ebay. Just not gonna do it.



Will2 said:


> How do you explain the first video, it seems to be greatly outperforming the steel.
> 
> I'm also wondering about costs as titanium is selling for less than that on ebay which is why I am wondering about the grade that the titanium plate is.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

I would amend those three to include "what was that honey? I didn't hear you. (walks away)"



txmarine6531 said:


> I've heard that's the secret to a successful marriage.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

C.A.T.I. Level 3A shooters cut side plates and rear plate with linex coating.

Takes everything up until the guy pulls out the 300 Win Mag.


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## StephenGDavis (Dec 1, 2016)

Mosinator762x54r said:


> Sorry man. I'm not strapping up with titanium from ebay. Just not gonna do it.


That was my first thought . . . I don't want no armor from Ebay . . .


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## Fireman_25 (Jan 23, 2017)

I bought my CATI plates on Ebay and they are awesome. Made from AR500 steel.


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