# Its generator time ladies and germs



## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

One of my large holes in my preps is em emergency power. In my case we can have rolling black outs, storms, earthquakes that can take my power out. 

I've been researching generators but of course I thought I would bring it to the PF brain trust.

I'm looking for powerful enough to keep my fridge running and quite enough to not let people miles away know I got food.

So what you got? What do you recommend? And why?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Exactly what else do you plan on running outside of the fridge?

What I normally run is a 5,500 watt dual fuel electric start genset.

Normally it is fed from two 100 pound propane tanks, I have never put any gasoline in it.

It is run into the main shop panel with a plug in cable into a 50A welder outlet.

Backup to that is a 3,500 watt gas job to run just the burners and the refrigerator and freezer.

This one is 33 years old and always starts on the first pull,

and runs 8 hours on a tank of fuel that is just under 4 gallons.

Third gen is a 7,500 watt Coleman gas job in its own comm shelter, rarely used.

Fourth one is a 25KW diesel 3 phase for the shop, only used it once, it will power the house also if needed.

Now the 3,500 will start the burner and the fridge and also run all my house lights with ease.

I don't know if it would have the starting load capacity to do both motors at exactly the same time. 

Even two seconds would make a big difference in loading.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

I personally have a 5500kw, pull to start Coleman. I had it professionally wired to a transfer switch. I have a well and an oil-fired furnace that heats the water and warms the house...so it's very easy on power.
I can take a hot shower, light the kitchen and den, run the well, run the boiler, keep food cold or frozen. It's all I need for just me and the dog. It will wake the dead though even though it's enclosed in a small Rubbermaid shed.

My sister has a 22 kw propane Generac....
Her house is all electric and this thing will run the entire house...very quiet but $6000.00 installed.

If I had to do it over again, I would go with something that is automatic. Nothing worse than going out when it's miserable out and pulling on a starter rope.

I probably would go with Generac but with just enough power to keep the vitals going.


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## jmh033089 (Oct 23, 2012)

Following


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Exactly what else do you plan on running outside of the fridge?


Most important to me is the fridge and maybe a light or two. After that everything else is just a bonus. Maybe just charge some phones or laptops.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

A 120v 15a circuit works out to 1.8kw, so if you're judicious in your usage, you can easily get by with 3 to 5kw. No, it's not going to run your hot tub (I'd hate to see the hair clogs you leave in it), but you can manually cycle between critical loads like the fridge, freezer, furnace, sump, well etc. Not convenient, but possible.

Most folks want a set-and-forget installation, but gennies large enough to take the place of your utility, along with the requisite automatic transfer switches, exercise clocks etc, makes for a rather expensive set-up. And if you want it all fully automatic, you probably will need to upgrade the gas lines for either your LP or NG supply. 

Its been years since I've actually installed one as the final price gives most tire-kickers a coronary. 99% opt for a manual start system and transfer switch, and suffer through the constant monitoring required.

Make a list of the loads you want to have on the genset and find out how much each item actually consumes. From there, you can decide how involved you want to get when it comes time to fire it up. My 4kw solar setup is far more than I truly need, I just bought a 4kw inverter to not have up upgrade in the future should I decide to increase the overall system capacity.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

For what you listed there are many low cost units that will work. But like many things once you have it you will wish you went larger. Going to a whole house stand by unit is not as expensive as it seems


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

If 3kW will do

https://greenmountaingenerators.com/product/mep016d-3kw-diesel-generator-yanmar-l70-engine-old-mep016a/

5 kW

https://greenmountaingenerators.com/product/mep802a-5kw-military-diesel-generator/

Spider

https://greenmountaingenerators.com/product/new-hubbell-sbsb2-gfi-spider-boxes-nsn-6110-01-013-7639-50-amps-120-240v-single-phase/


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

We have two 2,000W Predator inverter generators. They can be daisy-chained and are so quiet that I can't hear them from 100 feet. I admit to being a bit hard of hearing. They also make a 3500W that's just as quiet. They go on sale frequently.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

T'were me, I'd first consider how it will be fueled... for both short term (week or more) or long term.
We have the HondaEU7000is as the backup for the solar system.
It's the batteries on the solar system that run the fridge; we start the gen to charge the batts if not enough sun. In winter, we go through 6-7 5gal cans of gas per month. In the sunny summer - one 5gal can will last us over a month, again just to top up the batteries.

To run a fridge and a few things directly off a gen - would mean the gen would have to run all the time so the fridge could do it's cycling thing. Our fridge kicks on maybe once every 2 hours, runs for a bit, stops. 

I've seen Generac commercials but I dont know how they're set up. If I were in the city where nat gas was available - I'd use that for fuel (constant supply unless quake or SHTF, I'd guess) - and if NG wasn't available then a big honkin propane tank (if you're allowed) and you'd have gen as long as the tank didn't run out. Again, though, it's a constant running unless there's some kind of auto-turn-on when your fridge needs to cycle.

Not sure if all that's helpful, but there it is.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Sasquatch said:


> Most important to me is the fridge and maybe a light or two. After that everything else is just a bonus. Maybe just charge some phones or laptops.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Anything under 4,000 will do for that, make sure it is 220/110 VAC and not a square wave generator.

As I said I can run two oil burners fridge and 2 freezers with the 3,500 and the house lights.

Like with any engine the smaller the less fuel used.

The burners also have large squirrel cage blowers to circulate the heat.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> T'were me, I'd first consider how it will be fueled... for both short term (week or more) or long term.
> We have the HondaEU7000is as the backup for the solar system.
> It's the batteries on the solar system that run the fridge; we start the gen to charge the batts if not enough sun. In winter, we go through 6-7 5gal cans of gas per month. In the sunny summer - one 5gal can will last us over a month, again just to top up the batteries.
> 
> ...


The military MEP016D sip fuel and have fuel pumps. If you heat with oil (275-gal tank) or have a diesel farm tank that's a lot of fuel.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

I'm not genny-guru but I've yet to see anything quiet power anything major. We have a Westinghouse 8000w that we got at Costco several years ago. It can run the one-ton master bed a/c while also powering the refrigerators and some additional interior lighting. Add to that list either the well pump or the hot water heater simultaneously. That little blue beast punches well above its weight! However, it's not quiet. Also, a wired-in transfer switch is a must in my book.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Mad Trapper said:


> The military MEP016D sip fuel and have fuel pumps. If you heat with oil (275-gal tank) or have a diesel farm tank that's a lot of fuel.


It is, yep.
We chose to NOT have large tanks up here on the mountain; no place to put one, fuel delivery would be problematic. 
And, nowayinhell I'm gonna look at a propane tank sitting in the views, lol.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Hemi45 said:


> I'm not genny-guru but I've yet to see anything quiet power anything major. We have a Westinghouse 8000w that we got at Costco several years ago. It can run the one-ton master bed a/c while also powering the refrigerators and some additional interior lighting. Add to that list either the well pump or the hot water heater simultaneously. That little blue beast punches well above its weight! However, it's not quiet. Also, a wired-in transfer switch is a must in my book.


Natural gas & always on?
(When the utility is down)


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

a fridge is not an energy hog.. it runs to cool and then shuts down.... same with a freezer
an average fridge uses 255 watts / 18 Amps per day.... so a full charged 105 amp hour battery would run it for a few days... (of course there is a start up draw which has to be figured in)


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Maine-Marine said:


> a fridge is not an energy hog.. it runs to cool and then shuts down.... same with a freezer
> an average fridge uses 255 watts / 18 Amps per day.... so a full charged 105 amp hour battery would run it for a few days... (of course there is a start up draw which has to be figured in)


There's a way to mitigate the start up draw. RVers do it so they can run their AC on smaller generators. They call it a soft start. I don't know if that's a made up name or a real name.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

paulag1955 said:


> There's a way to mitigate the start up draw. RVers do it so they can run their AC on smaller generators. They call it a soft start. I don't know if that's a made up name or a real name.


It's a real name.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> It's a real name.


That's good to know.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

What no AC? Sheeeet do it right and get at least a 8500 or a10,000 run plus surge and run the whole house.


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## Tango2X (Jul 7, 2016)

Generators are rated in Watts
Watts is Volts X Amps
Each unit has a data plate, it lists the starting and running amps, and the volts
List each unit by the volts,either 120, or 220, then list the starting amps for each, -- multiply.
Add that all and you have the total watts.
Add 10%, and buy the proper Gen set.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

We have had a Coleman Powermate 5,000 watt gasoline 110/220 for about 20 years.
A hurricane, or even tropical storm, often takes the power out for several days, and that's when the old girl gets fired up.

It's powered by a Briggs & Stratton, so it is as loud as a lawn mower. But we live in the country, so no big deal.

We have run our two freezers, a couple lights, a box fan, the wifi modem with no problem. It would handle more, I'm sure,.
I need to get an electrician to hardwire a 220 plug into our outside service panel (we live in a mobile home) with an anti backflow switch so I can just plug it in and be able to run our well pumps along with everything else.
Right now I just run exterior extension cords in thru the window.
I'm a very low-tech guy.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I have a Honda EU2000. It’s only 2000 watts but it is very-very quiet. It’s light...... the wife can carry it around. And it is very fuel efficient. It will easily run your fridge and a few led lites. If you rotate loads back and forth, you can also power a small chest freezer. Mine is modified to run on either gas or propane. I believe they make the EU series in largers sizes if you need more capacity. Honda’s are pricey, but they are a quality unit and start easily if you run non-ethanol fuel.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

1340 sq ft ranch my 5500 run 7500 surge will run my AC but with nothing else on. It does OK in the winter and runs my furnace frig frezzer and lights. But to run the well the frig and freezer has to be shut off while the well is running.

Point is go big or go home cycling stuff on and off sucks I've been doing it for a couple decades here we lose power with a 10 mph breeze. DTE sucks tell all your friends.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I run a 4500 watt Champion inverter with dual-fuel capability (propane or gas). I installed an interlock kit in my panel that manually isolates the main breaker and allows you to choose and use the existing breakers in tha panel as you need the circuit. I also have two 2000 watt Champion inverters that I do not use.

My next big purchase is a 5k Generac whole house generator permanently installed with an automatic transfer switch.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> Natural gas & always on?
> (When the utility is down)


No, it's gasoline powered but when it's time to replace I am thinking about buying a duel fuel model. Two years back we used it nearly non-stop for about five days. IIRC, we ran it through the night to keep the master bedroom cool while the whole family camped in there. I probably gave it an hour off each day. Keep in mind, this was due to a hurricane so it was in the crazy hot FL summer months. If we didn't have to battle heat and humidity - I'd only need to run it maybe a third of the time to keep fridges & freezers cold. Without AC I could have the well and the hot water tank going at the same time and would do that during scheduled running hours. It's the heat & humidity that gets ya here. Sometimes I'm amazed Florida was ever settled but damn sure shocked folks were tough/crazy enough to do it without modern conveniences


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Chiefster23 said:


> I have a Honda EU2000. It's only 2000 watts but it is very-very quiet. It's light...... the wife can carry it around. And it is very fuel efficient. It will easily run your fridge and a few led lites. If you rotate loads back and forth, you can also power a small chest freezer. Mine is modified to run on either gas or propane. I believe they make the EU series in largers sizes if you need more capacity. Honda's are pricey, but they are a quality unit and start easily if you run non-ethanol fuel.


Ours is the Honda EU7000, yes pricy ($5K 4yrs ago) and it's a great unit, pretty quiet for it's size. We ran non-ethanol for the first 100 hours, run it on regular ethanol since then. Oil change every 100, under cover so no snow on it (except for one sideways blizzard last winter). Totally recommend the line. Does yours have the Eco setting? It idles down when the draw is less; cool fuel saver.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

@Sasquatch

Whatever you get, go Dual Fuel....Ethanol sucks and will kill small engines.

Start low and work your way up. 2 is one and 1 is none. 3 is better. Get one with the inverter and one without then figure out the whole house thing.

Good luck!


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

A Watchman said:


> I run a 4500 watt Champion inverter with dual-fuel capability (propane or gas). I installed an interlock kit in my panel that manually isolates the main breaker and allows you to choose and use the existing breakers in tha panel as you need the circuit. I also have two 2000 watt Champion inverters that I do not use.
> 
> My next big purchase is a 5k Generac whole house generator permanently installed with an automatic transfer switch.


5K sounds a little small for a whole house....depending on what you need it for.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I know this will come as a surprise but it pretty much stays hot in Texas. I looked into a whole house generator with an automatic transfer switch. My issue was it was over 10k installed to run everything. Generac seemed to be the quietest.

There are many online calculators that will figure how much power you need. Here is a link to one of them.

https://homegenerators.cummins.com/generator-size-calculator


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Robie said:


> 5K sounds a little small for a whole house....depending on what you need it for.


5k is about 40 amps at 120v. If there's no 240v loads, you'd be in like Flynn.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Yeah, my well pump keeps me from charging more 'stuff".


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> One of my large holes in my preps is em emergency power. In my case we can have rolling black outs, storms, earthquakes that can take my power out.
> 
> I've been researching generators but of course I thought I would bring it to the PF brain trust.
> 
> ...


Last I checked Hondas are the caddie. Would be ideal to run on propane so the fuel dont go stale as I think we have discussed previously but havent researched who makes the best of those. Honda too maybe. 
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/t...4e&gclid=CJCDopPfkekCFRiPxQIdNsMG3g&gclsrc=ds


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Exactly what else do you plan on running outside of the fridge?
> 
> What I normally run is a 5,500 watt dual fuel electric start genset.
> 
> ...


Believe I would like to nominate you as our official Generator Guru around these parts. Congrats and thanks!


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Robie said:


> 5K sounds a little small for a whole house....depending on what you need it for.


Dollars, my friend .... 5k will buy a Generac system w/ transfer switch installed in my area through my wholesale connections.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> I run a 4500 watt Champion inverter with dual-fuel capability (propane or gas). I installed an interlock kit in my panel that manually isolates the main breaker and allows you to choose and use the existing breakers in tha panel as you need the circuit. I also have two 2000 watt Champion inverters that I do not use.
> 
> My next big purchase is a 5k Generac whole house generator permanently installed with an automatic transfer switch.


Thats' what I am looking at, a Generac system. For now I am running a 10,000 KW dual fuel electric start. It will run the whole house except the AC units, but I have two portable AC units I can utilize as needed. I run my system every six months or so to insure it functions, especially before hurricane season. I keep plenty of propane on hand and can stretch that fuel depending on the duration of need. It is loud however, so my neighbors and any unwanted guests can hear it. I am looking at different ways I can mitigate the noise.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> Ours is the Honda EU7000, yes pricy ($5K 4yrs ago) and it's a great unit, pretty quiet for it's size. We ran non-ethanol for the first 100 hours, run it on regular ethanol since then. Oil change every 100, under cover so no snow on it (except for one sideways blizzard last winter). Totally recommend the line. Does yours have the Eco setting? It idles down when the draw is less; cool fuel saver.


Yes, I have the 'eco' setting. Since it is an inverter, it supplies power to my lights and even my battery charger while on low idle. (Saving even more gas). I use non-ethanol gas because my unit starts so much easier with the good stuff. I also purchased and installed a conversion kit so I can run the genny on propane. This gives me a little more flexibility. Living in California, I don't think I would depend on a natural gas unit. An earthquake could break the underground gas lines putting you completely out of business.

A large 'whole house' unit with a transfer switch is nice, but expensive. Yes, with smaller units you may need to rotate loads, but you can save a ton of money going smaller. I installed a separate circuit in my house for generator use. The genny is placed on my back porch during use and plugged into a special recepticle outside. Then I ran an inside wire to a few special purpose plugs inside the house near the fridge and freezer. An extension cord or two covers power for lights.

$1000 for the Honda and maybe $100 for the special circuit and extension cords. Boom! You are in business with emergency back up power! And this setup "sips" fuel!


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

When possible I run the smallest set that I can, this is seasonal dependent.

During the summer I only use the AC about 3 days out of the season.

The 3,500 works well enough keeping things cool, freezer wise, during fair weather months.

Kitchen stove is propane so no load there, 

secondary heat is also propane but not from the same supply system.

The only time I need the 7,500 is when running one 7-1/2 HP air compressor that is single phase, 

use it for air tools along with the rest of the loads as needed.

The big one is 3 phase and 15 HP, no hard start there either, uses a downloader instead of a pressure switch.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Instead of getting a huge generator just for an air compressor, what about getting a smaller genny and complimenting it with a gas-powered compressor?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Instead of getting a huge generator just for an air compressor, what about getting a smaller genny and complimenting it with a gas-powered compressor?


I think you misunderstood me, let try it this way,

during a power outage, I use four different levels of aux power, depending on the need.

The system has been in place for around 30 years.

At the lowest level is the 3,500 watt gen., that is sufficient for summer/ fair weather use,

only runs the refer and freezers plus a few lights.

The propane 5,500 runs everything but the water heater during fall and winter times.

The 7,500 was put in as the first one 33 years ago, was more than enough power, uses a lot of fuel when not on idle.

Got a great deal on the 3,500 about 5 years later, it still is the summer run one.

About ten years ago I got the propane fired electric start one to run most of the fall and winter loads.

Now back to the 7,500, it gets used when all the stuff is on line, not just for the compressor which is a small 5 hp job.

But the loads make it needed at times.

Understand, I have a machine shop that gets some single phase power from these gensets for heater and lights during an outage.

There is a big compressor that is in its own outside room for supplying the shop with air for most work.

The 5 hp compressor is used for when I am working on the bench and no big CNC machines are running.

It is tied into the same main airline as the big one, airline main is shut off at the compressor by a Worcester Controls

remote 3/4" ball valve when not in use, tank purge is done in the same manor.

I have only used the big 3 phase diesel generator once to power the shop in 25 years.

And yes I do have a 5HP gasoline air compressor that has not been used since I retired.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Question for you folks that actually use your generators. What is the longest you have had one run without issue? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Ever had yours fail when needed?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

When I do use mine, I don't just let it run. I wait until it's needed, fire it up, do whatever I need it to do (heat the house, run the freezer/fridge etc), then shut it down until it's needed again.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Depending on the season, different times.

Summer about 1 out of 8 hours, just to keep freezers cool.

I use Aladdin lamps and regular oil lamps for light in spring- summer weather, when needed Coleman gas lanterns.

Dead of winter, 1 out of every 4 roughly, sometimes all night long or 24 hrs dependent on temp.

One winter I had to run one for two weeks when we were without power, it was not continuous though.

Have non electric propane wall heaters for #1 alternate heat but they do not keep the pipes from freezing.

Open some faucets to prevent it but not all work that way for some lines, so the oil has to come on.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Me? Maybe 7 hours during an outage. But I loaned the Honda to a friend who used it for 2-1/2 days continuously during an outage at his place.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Right now I just run exterior extension cords in thru the window.
> I'm a very low-tech guy.


last time we had a tornado go through I ran my gen with a couple of extension cords... fridge, some lights, a few other things... no need for fancy smancy failover switch


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> last time we had a tornado go through I ran my gen with a couple of extension cords... fridge, some lights, a few other things... no need for fancy smancy failover switch


We are in the country enough that our water comes from a well in the front yard.
Well is 225 feet deep, and the pump is 220.
I need to be able to plug a line from the generator 220 outlet into the breaker box for the house so I can run the pump.
And that would also require a back flow switch so I don't electrocute any linemen.
I've already priced it, about $700 total for the job.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> We are in the country enough that our water comes from a well in the front yard.
> Well is 225 feet deep, and the pump is 220.
> I need to be able to plug a line from the generator 220 outlet into the breaker box for the house so I can run the pump.
> And that would also require a back flow switch so I don't electrocute any linemen.
> I've already priced it, about $700 total for the job.


we had town water, luck us


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I have a mil-surplus 3kw diesel genset. This bad boy is heavy and LOUD! I installed it in my barn at distance from the house. I normally feed my barn with 220 volts off my basement breaker box. But I have all the necessary wire and supplies on hand to backfeed power into my home from this genset if necessary. This is a big no-no from a code standpoint. But the genny is not connected normally. I would only resort to its use in a long term outage situation. It would take me a short time to wire the generator to backfeed and I would have to pull my meter to prevent any possibility of backfeeding into the grid. I have a fuel oil furnace so I have a ready 250 gallon supply of fuel on hand.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

******* said:


> Question for you folks that actually use your generators. What is the longest you have had one run without issue? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Ever had yours fail when needed?


Never had any issues; 4-6 hrs in the winter if we're also doing other things (laundry, baking) while charging the batteries; we don't let them drop below 80%. The biggest draw on the system is the 220 well pump. Tom's got a separate gen in the garage/shop for his hobbies, lol; it's a noisy beast.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> we had town water, luck us


One pump brings it up from the well, and shoots it over to a 200 gallon aerator, which makes it taste better. And also gives us 200 gallons on hand.
Then another pump takes it from the aerator and into the house.
I have it plumbed so I can run it straight from the well into the house, and out to the stable and chicken pen, simply by manipulating a few valves. This makes one less pump to run.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

******* said:


> Question for you folks that actually use your generators. What is the longest you have had one run without issue? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Ever had yours fail when needed?


1 week.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> One pump brings it up from the well, and shoots it over to a 200 gallon aerator, which makes it taste better. And also gives us 200 gallons on hand.
> Then another pump takes it from the aerator and into the house.
> I have it plumbed so I can run it straight from the well into the house, and out to the stable and chicken pen, simply by manipulating a few valves. This makes one less pump to run.


That's the one thing we couldn't figure out how to do up here: water storage tank to gravity feed into the cabin. Couldn't bury it in the granite mountain; anything above ground would freeze. Oh well.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> last time we had a tornado go through I ran my gen with a couple of extension cords... fridge, some lights, a few other things... no need for fancy smancy failover switch


My manual interlock switch installs in the panel and simply allows the new 35 or 50 amp double pole breaker to be switched to the on position while keeping the panel main switch in the off position. Uses your existing house breakers and wiring as you only switch on what you need to utilize at any given time. Cost is $45.

You will also need to install an RV type box for your cord from your generator.

https://www.amazon.com/Square-Schne...88374815&sprefix=interlock+kit,aps,213&sr=8-8


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

MountainGirl said:


> That's the one thing we couldn't figure out how to do up here: water storage tank to gravity feed into the cabin. Couldn't bury it in the granite mountain; anything above ground would freeze. Oh well.


I once hauled a 400 gallon fiberglas septic tank up to the North Georgia mountains for one of the bosses where I worked.
On a hill above his vacation cabin was a natural spring, and he wanted to use the spring to fill the tank, then gravity feed the cabin.
It DOES get cold in the N Ga mountains, but I guess he wasn't there in the coldest times.

If your tank was big enough, it would have to be below freezing for quite a few days to freeze solid. As long as the pipes coming out were insulated it may work. 
But then, my experience with below zero weather was one winter in Colorado. Tent dwelling for a week at a time in the field when it's 20 below was not my cup of tea. (US Army)


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## Grinch (Jan 3, 2016)

We always had a PTO generator for the barn, have a big old beast of a thing we used to use for the house. Certainly glad I got away from that lifestyle, before I pose a question, I'll add I've heard the Generac's standby's are Frankenstein-ed and not worth the price. But my question is have you ever considered renewable? 

I've got two wind turbines in addition to solar panels on the roof of home, machinery shed, barn and main garage. Every month I get a fair check from the electric company and I never have to worry about not having electricity.


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## Gabridussel11 (Jun 17, 2020)

Following.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

MountainGirl said:


> That's the one thing we couldn't figure out how to do up here: water storage tank to gravity feed into the cabin. Couldn't bury it in the granite mountain; anything above ground would freeze. Oh well.


How about building a insulated building around the tank and heating it, does not need much heat to keep it above freezing.

A 250 gallon tank will take a long time to freeze over.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

SOCOM42 said:


> How about building a insulated building around the tank and heating it, does not need much heat to keep it above freezing.
> 
> A 250 gallon tank will take a long time to freeze over.


How long do you think it would take? I'm thinking about installing a rain chatchment system for my garden using a rain roof and 300+ gallon IBC totes, but worry about the water freezing in the winter is holding me back. I could partially shelter the totes in the hillside.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Champion 3100 remote start inverter generator. Tennessee had horrible storms recently. My Champ kept my freezer full of beef, my freezer/refrigerator and my Cpap running quietly until the power came back on. $785.00 and worth every quiet penny. We even watched TV using the modem and router as well as a fan. So nice!


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

paulag1955 said:


> How long do you think it would take? I'm thinking about installing a rain chatchment system for my garden using a rain roof and 300+ gallon IBC totes, but worry about the water freezing in the winter is holding me back. I could partially shelter the totes in the hillside.


Hard to say, too many variables, but still water in that volume @ 32 degrees more than a week.

If the tank was in a greenhouse structure it probably never freeze dependent on your location.

I keep a case of bottled water in each jeep, only when the temps go to 20 does it freeze over.

The greenhouse effect keeps it liquid above the 20 mark.

If I need it and it is frozen, there is a butane burner and a pot to melt snow in to thaw the bottles.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I can't justify a generator given the cost. 

A generator's wonderful for comfort sake but will do no earthly good in the event of an EMP. Which is one reason why I don't like them. If there's a power outage that would last at most a week or so, I've got the propane heaters for that, plus alternative ways of cooking and plenty of lanterns etc.... Been there, done that during Sandy, among several other storms. But running a generator simply to keep the fridge going is, imho a waste of money. Eat what's in there and then go for the shelf stable food once it's consumed. 

Am I missing something? Cold showers? I know not comfy but...It's good for you.


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## Alteredstate (Jul 7, 2016)




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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

U.S. G.I. 3kW Diesel Generator MEP-831A


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> I can't justify a generator given the cost.
> 
> A generator's wonderful for comfort sake but will do no earthly good in the event of an EMP. Which is one reason why I don't like them. If there's a power outage that would last at most a week or so, I've got the propane heaters for that, plus alternative ways of cooking and plenty of lanterns etc.... Been there, done that during Sandy, among several other storms. But running a generator simply to keep the fridge going is, imho a waste of money. Eat what's in there and then go for the shelf stable food once it's consumed.
> 
> Am I missing something? Cold showers? I know not comfy but...It's good for you.


I don't think You have bases covered Annie. Power/heat might be down MUCH longer. What then? Pipes freeze no water. Where to pizz/poop? hygine w/no water?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Annie said:


> I can't justify a generator given the cost.
> 
> A generator's wonderful for comfort sake but will do no earthly good in the event of an EMP. Which is one reason why I don't like them. If there's a power outage that would last at most a week or so, I've got the propane heaters for that, plus alternative ways of cooking and plenty of lanterns etc.... Been there, done that during Sandy, among several other storms. But running a generator simply to keep the fridge going is, imho a waste of money. Eat what's in there and then go for the shelf stable food once it's consumed.
> 
> Am I missing something? Cold showers? I know not comfy but...It's good for you.


Don't fall for this 'EMP-will-destroy-everything-electric' myth. A basic, simple genny won't be affected much by an EMP. Yeah, if you've got a remote start, or there's GFCIs, those electronics _may_ get fried. _May_ is the operative word. But motors and basic wiring are beefy enough and the parts are far enough apart to survive.

If you're so close to an EMP event that ALL electronics and ALL electrical wiring is destroyed, you probably aren't much for this world at that point.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Its time to seriously look, for me at least. I think a 3K and safety cut out on my panel, so no juice flows back into the grid, is all I need.
I will grill on a propane grill, and all I need is the fridge to stay cool and keep the meat frozen...
My house is on the Hospital grid, which supposedly has priority to get back up and running.
I have been here 10 years, rarely have I had an outage. 
But, Charleston SC has Not had a hurricane like Hugo in a long time..


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Annie said:


> I can't justify a generator given the cost.
> 
> A generator's wonderful for comfort sake but will do no earthly good in the event of an EMP. Which is one reason why I don't like them. If there's a power outage that would last at most a week or so, I've got the propane heaters for that, plus alternative ways of cooking and plenty of lanterns etc.... Been there, done that during Sandy, among several other storms. But running a generator simply to keep the fridge going is, imho a waste of money. Eat what's in there and then go for the shelf stable food once it's consumed.
> 
> Am I missing something? Cold showers? I know not comfy but...It's good for you.


I love solar, propane, gravity, rain and hydro. As long as I can use a genset, I'm down!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Doesn't seem quite right, because 100 years ago there were no generators. Then what do you do once you've run out of propane or gas, if things really get that bad?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Annie said:


> I can't justify a generator given the cost.
> 
> A generator's wonderful for comfort sake but will do no earthly good in the event of an EMP. Which is one reason why I don't like them. If there's a power outage that would last at most a week or so, I've got the propane heaters for that, plus alternative ways of cooking and plenty of lanterns etc.... Been there, done that during Sandy, among several other storms. But running a generator simply to keep the fridge going is, imho a waste of money. Eat what's in there and then go for the shelf stable food once it's consumed.
> 
> Am I missing something? Cold showers? I know not comfy but...It's good for you.


 Try cold showers for a year or more. Diesel generators run for years longer than LP or gas ones. During short term disruptions they can be a life saver for many. Having something around is generally a good idea. Of course the world as we know it ends . yea mad max time fuel will be gone in weeks.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

If you have a diesel generator and 250 gallons of home heating oil, you can run the genny a couple hours a day and keep a freezer going for months. If it all goes to hell, the trick is to survive until after the major die off is over. The vast majority of the sheep won’t survive much longer than 3 months or so. That genny, your fuel, and your supplies can keep you sheltered in and hunkered down until the major chaos is over. By then your freezer and fridge will be empty anyway.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Prep so that you can get used to the loss of one item as you transition into another.
Gas to diesel, to fire wood and wind/water power. 
Fire wood works, and has for quite some time.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Annie said:


> Doesn't seem quite right, because 100 years ago there were no generators. Then what do you do once you've run out of propane or gas, if things really get that bad?


If things got that bad...... that was the norm back then. They were I believe realists
, We have become such a catered society where every thing is at our beck and call at any time! Whole lot of folks will feel "woke" and cry cause they got the poop end of the stick. I try to feel sorry for them but I can't.They don't seem to be able to look past their noses.

I envy no measure folks that live off the grid, long for the simple life, not have to put up with this B.S., just leave me alone!!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Try cold showers for a year or more. Diesel generators run for years longer than LP or gas ones. During short term disruptions they can be a life saver for many. Having something around is generally a good idea. Of course the world as we know it ends . yea mad max time fuel will be gone in weeks.


Cold showers are quick showers. Or heat the water up in a pot to a bath temp and wash up with a sponge. I'm not against generators, but there are things I believe are more essential--for me and mine.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I took many of those after what I thought was a hot date.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Annie said:


> I can't justify a generator given the cost.
> 
> A generator's wonderful for comfort sake but will do no earthly good in the event of an EMP. Which is one reason why I don't like them. If there's a power outage that would last at most a week or so, I've got the propane heaters for that, plus alternative ways of cooking and plenty of lanterns etc.... Been there, done that during Sandy, among several other storms. But running a generator simply to keep the fridge going is, imho a waste of money. Eat what's in there and then go for the shelf stable food once it's consumed.
> 
> Am I missing something? Cold showers? I know not comfy but...It's good for you.


Stop and think about it. If an EMP hits we will be back to the 1800's in the blink of an eye.

Even 100 years ago they did not have anything near to what you do now. Read up on how they lived, both in the 1800's and early 1900's. Both will give you an idea of what to expect in either a grid down or an all out war. CW2 will be nearly as bad as being invaded.

A lot will depend on how things go. We probably will be all back to manual labor for everyday needs and fighting to keep fed and alive.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

1skrewsloose said:


> If things got that bad...... that was the norm back then. They were I believe realists
> , We have become such a catered society where every thing is at our beck and call at any time! Whole lot of folks will feel "woke" and cry cause they got the poop end of the stick. I try to feel sorry for them but I can't.They don't seem to be able to look past their noses.
> 
> I envy no measure folks that live off the grid, long for the simple life, not have to put up with this B.S., just leave me alone!!


It's amazing the luxuries this great country produces of which many people simply take for granted. Normalcy bias up the kazoo. It won't take much to put many into shock, and it won't take loss of the electric grid, no water coming from the pipes, or dead bodies in the streets. Maybe just the first time they can't go down to the local 7-11 for a chili cheese dog at 3 A.M. "CLOSED? My GOD! What is to become of civilization?!?"


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

A lot will depend on how things go. We probably will be all back to manual labor for everyday needs and fighting to keep fed and alive. 

When growing up I really don't remember us having much for luxuries, spoiled now. 

Like the animals, spend all day trying to find something to eat, that's their number 1 goal in life. How does that go "you don't know what you've got till its gone"


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

People are too reliant on conveniences today. Look at drive throughs during lunch and dinner. Insane. 
Who cooks anymore? Seems allot of people are going to have it rough if food, water and power go bye bye.


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## Alteredstate (Jul 7, 2016)

Steve40th said:


> Its time to seriously look, for me at least. I think a 3K and safety cut out on my panel, so no juice flows back into the grid, is all I need.
> I will grill on a propane grill, and all I need is the fridge to stay cool and keep the meat frozen...
> My house is on the Hospital grid, which supposedly has priority to get back up and running.
> I have been here 10 years, rarely have I had an outage.
> But, Charleston SC has Not had a hurricane like Hugo in a long time..


City water or well pump?


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Alteredstate said:


> City water or well pump?


City water. But, I have streams and a lake to get water and plenty of filtration..
Once I get fancy and get a berkey filter, water wont be my main worry.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Inverter generators also provide pure sine energy which is what fragile phones, Cpaps and electronics need. They are also significantly quieter than frame mounted generators.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

Go solar @Sasquatch no really go solar, it's ideal for smaller needs, quiet, no fuel and actually works a little under the clouds.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I have two 150w solar panels, a 160w portable solar panel and they power my two deep cycle marine batteries. I have a 350w Go Power inverter connected and a solar charger in line with 1 ought cables. I can watch TV all night, charge phones and tablets, run my CPAP machine all night and all my lights. That's about it though. If you want a fridge, stove, oven or heat propane and propane accessories are king Bobbie. If you want cold A/C? a microwave? The Genset is your answer. At least 3100 watts. To run both at the same time or a hair drier? You will need a boss hoss generator.


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## Tanya49! (Jun 20, 2020)

Had to run my generator for 9 days after hurricane Erma.


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## Tanya49! (Jun 20, 2020)

Sasquatch said:


> One of my large holes in my preps is em emergency power. In my case we can have rolling black outs, storms, earthquakes that can take my power out.
> 
> I've been researching generators but of course I thought I would bring it to the PF brain trust.
> 
> ...


Try a Predator 3500 watt inverter generator by Harbor Freight. Runs about $799.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

stowlin said:


> Go solar @Sasquatch no really go solar, it's ideal for smaller needs, quiet, no fuel and actually works a little under the clouds.


I'm torn on this. I almost bought a house that had solar but after looking into I saw solar can have many drawbacks as well. Still looking into it though. I would like to have some type of solar as an alternative.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Sasquatch said:


> I'm torn on this. I almost bought a house that had solar but after looking into I saw solar can have many drawbacks as well. Still looking into it though. I would like to have some type of solar as an alternative.


I hope to have solar, wind and maybe a water turbine if I find a property with a stream running through it. These are pretty cool.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> I'm torn on this. I almost bought a house that had solar but after looking into I saw solar can have many drawbacks as well. Still looking into it though. I would like to have some type of solar as an alternative.


We don't have enough deck space on our boat to #go solar" but we still carry 4-240 watt panels we can put out there which is adequate for lighting, device charging and most critical the desalination required. It won't power the diesel or any electric equivalent but it sure makes life easy. Don't ask it to do it all just look and see what it can do.


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## Swrock (Dec 14, 2018)

I have a predator 2000 inverter generator. Very quite. I built a small well insulated room in the corner of my garage with a little window unit in it. Put bunk beds in for me and the wife. The little predator runs the window unit fine so we have a cool place to sleep after a hurricane or tropical storm. Boat holds 75 gallons of gas that I can siphon out to run the generator. Pool holds 15,000 gallons of water so we should be fine on water.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Sasquatch said:


> I'm torn on this. I almost bought a house that had solar but after looking into I saw solar can have many drawbacks as well. Still looking into it though. I would like to have some type of solar as an alternative.


Please excuse the late reply; I've been gone awhile LOL
Did you ever decide on a generator or solar, Sasq?


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> Please excuse the late reply; I've been gone awhile LOL
> Did you ever decide on a generator or solar, Sasq?


Well I have decided yet. A generator is going to happen for sure. Solar maybe something extra down the line.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> ......... solar can have many drawbacks as well. .......


Such as?


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Such as?


Such as equipment becoming obsolete quickly.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> Such as equipment becoming obsolete quickly.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


If you build a system properly, it becomes a non-issue. Yeah, it might get 'old', but it still works and performs as intended.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> If you build a system properly, it becomes a non-issue. Yeah, it might get 'old', but it still works and performs as intended.


Until it doesn't. 
Obsolescence isn't an issue, but failure can be. Had to have the fan replaced in a 2yr old inverter.
Overall though, the system's lack of 'moving parts' is a bonus.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Well, we could build one that runs off of steam. Make a boiler, then a pit under neath it to burn wood.. Boiler, steam, and a generator.. Old school, but, our Ships and Subs run off the same principal, with exception of Nuclear plant to heat the water..


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> Until it doesn't.
> Obsolescence isn't an issue, but failure can be. Had to have the fan replaced in a 2yr old inverter.
> Overall though, the system's lack of 'moving parts' is a bonus.


And what would cause that obsolescence? Perhaps.... the user making changes? That's not obsolescence.

If you design a system to do so much (keep the fridge, freezer, furnace and sump pump running), then it will not become obsolete. Adding another freezer, or a second sump pump, or converting to geothermal.... that's not making the system obsolete. It's the user simply adding more loads.

If I dropped 10 tons of rock in the bed of my truck, is the failure of my truck a result of obsolescence? I think not.


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## Smit974 (Mar 15, 2020)

Guy’s if ur looking for help with Solar check us out on Facebook @ SF Solar2020. The preppers family will receive a huge discount and I can do all of the required engineering and Nec code requirements for installation. Anyways if ur on the fence don’t hesitate as we are a new company and I must grow the business.

As far as items becoming outdated yes that maybe true but a solar panel will last the 25 year warranty they have from the factory as long as hail doesn’t destroy it. For the DIY’ers on here it’s not hard to install and I can help. Hit me up if u have questions or need help with ur existing system.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> And what would cause that obsolescence? Perhaps.... the user making changes? That's not obsolescence.
> 
> If you design a system to do so much (keep the fridge, freezer, furnace and sump pump running), then it will not become obsolete. Adding another freezer, or a second sump pump, or converting to geothermal.... that's not making the system obsolete. It's the user simply adding more loads.
> 
> If I dropped 10 tons of rock in the bed of my truck, is the failure of my truck a result of obsolescence? I think not.


You misread my post. My point was that new things can fail.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Steve40th said:


> Well, we could build one that runs off of steam. Make a boiler, then a pit under neath it to burn wood.. Boiler, steam, and a generator.. Old school, but, our Ships and Subs run off the same principal, with exception of Nuclear plant to heat the water..


Sounds cool but complicated lol.
Our backup plan is to not need it to survive.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> You misread my post. My point was that new things can fail.


Anything can fail. Everything can fail. If you dismiss any method because of the possibility of failure, you're left with zero choices.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Anything can fail. Everything can fail. If you dismiss any method because of the possibility of failure, you're left with zero choices.


Who said anything about dismissing a method? LOL

Yer jus wanting to spar and I'm not into that so... :vs_wave:


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> Who said anything about dismissing a method? LOL
> 
> Yer jus wanting to spar and I'm not into that so... :vs_wave:


Not trying to spar. Just got confused with your immediate injection of failure into a discussion about obsolescence.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

So did @Sasquatch get a dang generator or not? :vs_mad:


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Slippy said:


> So did @Sasquatch get a dang generator or not? :vs_mad:


Sheesh! No I haven't bought one yet. If any of you fine folks would like to buy one and send it to my home you are more than welcome.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> If you build a system properly, it becomes a non-issue. Yeah, it might get 'old', but it still works and performs as intended.


I'm not saying solar isn't any good. Just stating all energy sources have their drawbacks and each must be weighed to your personal situation.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Solar’s weak link is batteries. Even lead-acid batteries are expensive and don’t last a very long time. I have 6 golf cart batteries that are 5 years old and they are getting very close to replacement time. Replacement cost is around $700 for 600 amp-hrs.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> I'm not saying solar isn't any good. Just stating all energy sources have their drawbacks and each must be weighed to your personal situation.


Then, choose all of them. I have a 8kw genny, solar, inverters in both vehicles, plus two small portable inverters for small loads.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Then, choose all of them. I have a 8kw genny, solar, inverters in both vehicles, plus two small portable inverters for small loads.


Lomg term that is the plan. I just bought a house and got married, You think I have any money?


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## Smit974 (Mar 15, 2020)

Started this 10.2kw solar project today should have this completed by end of day tomorrow. Solar has its draw back which is when their is no sun... as far as all other issues they can be corrected by the proper size and storage capabilities. Remember you don't have to chose off grid or grid tie systems you can design a system to do both.


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## modfan (Feb 18, 2016)

Just curious, how well do the solar panels hold up to large hail? baseball or softball size


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

modfan said:


> Just curious, how well do the solar panels hold up to large hail? baseball or softball size


My guess is it would depend on the manufacturer's quality.


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## Smit974 (Mar 15, 2020)

modfan said:


> Just curious, how well do the solar panels hold up to large hail? baseball or softball size


Solar panels are designed to withstand up to 1" of hail at a falling speed of 50mph.


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## sakuragaming (Aug 24, 2020)

Time to be ready for any disaster!


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## sakuragaming (Aug 24, 2020)

I wanna know more about this!


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## sakuragaming (Aug 24, 2020)

Interested with this topic.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

sakuragaming said:


> Time to be ready for any disaster!


Gee..... now _there's_ a novel idea! :vs_smile:


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Yep! And you can improve your readiness by purchasing his math games apps.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Chiefster23 said:


> Yep! And you can improve your readiness by purchasing his math games apps.


You never know when your survival depends on manually calculating the square root of 19.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Chiefster23 said:


> Yep! And you can improve your readiness by purchasing his math games apps.


Yup the new twit is a spammer upping its post count.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> Lomg term that is the plan. I just bought a house and got married, You think I have any money?


Yer wifes a nurse, they make lots.


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## shooter (Dec 25, 2012)

Look at the Honda EU generators. they have them from 1000w to 2200w and 3000w plus a 7kw one. The 2200w is a tank. There are videos on line on how to convert them to propane or natural gas as well. The can survive on almost no up keep if needed as more then once I have talk to contractors who use them daily and service them once a year with fresh oil and a new spark plug. and with eco mod they can be fairly quite for a generator.


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