# Firearm Safety; Never assume



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Recently I invited a friend to shoot. He is in his mid 50's has been a somewhat successful deer hunter for years and has owned a small number of bolt action rifles and a revolver for many years. In the last couple of years, through our friendship, he has purchased a couple of AR15's and a few semi-auto handguns.

I made the assumption that he would be safe but I was totally wrong. His muzzle control was haphazard, his finger was constantly moving back to the trigger and his mind wandered to other subjects when he should have been concentrating on the firearm.

I noticed this within the first 2 minutes and went to work immediately on the safety rules. I stayed hyper-vigilant the entire time and we ended the shoot safe and in-tact. We shot for about 1.5 hours and by the end of the shoot, he had drastically improved his habits. He promised to work on the firearm safety rules before coming back and I was pleased to hear that.

The point of this thread, You can never be too safe when around firearms and you can never assume that someone is safe. Be aware and always be safe;

*Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety

*_ 
_ *RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED*
*RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY *
_*RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET*
*RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET*
 
_ [HR][/HR] _*RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED*
_ *There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it;e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.*
_*All guns are always loaded - period!*
_*This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"*
[HR][/HR] _*RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY*
_ *Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)*

[HR][/HR] _*Rule III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET*
_ *Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger.*

[HR][/HR] _*RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET*
_ *Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.*


_*SUMMARY:*
_*Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?*
*Excerpted from: The Modern Technique of the Pistol, by Greg Morrison, Gunsite Press, Paulden, Arizona, ISBN 0-9621342-3-6, Library of Congress Number 91-72644, $40*


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Safety can never be over stressed. Just last week I picked up a loaded Colt 1911 from its ready position, and to my surprise the safety was off. Fortunately, my finger never touched the trigger. This was the first mishap I have had in a long time. I like to think that I am hyper safe with firearms, but I messed up this time. Served as a wake up call, everyone makes mistakes.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Good reminder Slippy. I just bought my 12 yo nephew a SIG pellet hand gun for christmas and I immediately went to work teaching him gun safety. He has shot a pellet rifle but the pistol was something he need to learn. Especially finger off the trigger.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> Safety can never be over stressed. Just last week I picked up a loaded Colt 1911 from its ready position, and to my surprise the safety was off. Fortunately, my finger never touched the trigger. This was the first mishap I have had in a long time. I like to think that I am hyper safe with firearms, but I messed up this time. Served as a wake up call, everyone makes mistakes.


Never rely on the engagement or effectiveness of "safeties".
Your brain is the safety. A modern firearm will not fire unless you pull the trigger.
There is no such thing as an "accidental discharge". The gun does not "accidentally" fire if your finger is on the trigger.
That is an intentional, though grossly negligent, discharge.

Your rules 1 and 3 are always the first two when reviewing firearm safety with my family.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

A few months ago, I had a visit from an older gentleman who is ex-military, a successful big game hunter, former security officer/guard in a super-max prison. He has been around firearms his whole life. He has designed and built hunting rifles and even has a special hunting bullet named after him. He has a CCW and was happy to know that I had gotten interested in guns. He brought a few of his newer guns with him to show me. That's where the S almost HTF. First he pulled out a handgun and without clearing it first, he waved the muzzle past my chest - WITH HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER!!!!!!. I jumped away and he then swung the muzzle past my daughter who was standing off a ways, against a building. He THEN cleared the gun to show me it was unloaded. I just about wet my pants and I am still shaken to this day, just thinking about it. He invited us to go shooting with him - which will NEVER happen. Furthermore, he drove with several weapons in the car through tribal land (not just through it on the hiway, but actually INTO tribal land to look at some property he has.) If he had been stopped for any reason, the Tribal Police would have impounded his car and locked him up. He did this through 2 states - NM and AZ. 

Make no assumptions - either about the firearm itself or the person holding it!


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Muzzle control of handguns is by far the biggest problem I see, particularly in a gun store. It's downright scary.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Back in the old day, it was explained like this; Treat every gun as if it is loaded, never point a gun at anything you are not wanting to shoot, never shoot anything, you are not willing to eat, (of course the last one was, with the unspoken understanding,was with quite a few exceptions.)


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Pir8fan said:


> Muzzle control of handguns is by far the biggest problem I see, particularly in a gun store. It's downright scary.


 I agree that it is hard to handle a gun in a gun store or sporting goods store. There is a salesman in front, customers on each side, and in back. I always feel very awkward trying to handle a gun in that situation. So the salesman hands me a rifle with the muzzle pointed up (there is a second story at my Sportsmans Warehouse - duh????) I take the rifle and then what do I do? I want to have it pointed at the floor, but in order to do that, I have to swing it past something I don't want to shoot.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> I agree that it is hard to handle a gun in a gun store or sporting goods store. There is a salesman in front, customers on each side, and in back. I always feel very awkward trying to handle a gun in that situation. So the salesman hands me a rifle with the muzzle pointed up (there is a second story at my Sportsmans Warehouse - duh????) I take the rifle and then what do I do? I want to have it pointed at the floor, but in order to do that, I have to swing it past something I don't want to shoot.


The point isn't whether you can follow them 100% of the time, and if not, you've failed and must leave.
The point is, you must always be mindful of the rules, and abide by them at every possible opportunity.

When my gun is in a case, it is sweeping everything covered by that side of the case.
Have I violated the rules? Yes.
Does the case have some magical protection? Nope.
Do I deserve to lose my firearms because of it? Nope.
Always be mindful of the rules, and apply them at every opportunity.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

I used to work with a guy we'll call Teddy four fingers. He tried to put a 1911 into a shoulder holster. Unfortunately he had his finger on the trigger and blew the pinky finger of his left hand off.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I shoot at an unsupervised, state owned range in a Wildlife Management Area. There are quite a few Bubba's I have seen there over the years.
An example - I'm on the pistol range, engaging my target, when out of the corner of my eye I catch sight of this goober going DOWN RANGE to check his target. While the range is hot!! There are only 6 lanes on this range, it wasn't like he was 40 yards away.
Yes, my adrenaline got such a jolt that I corrected him in very unsportsman like language. Then I had to leave before I got shot, accidentally or on purpose. I try to go early in the morning now to avoid crowds, a crowd being more that one other person.

Another safety rule I have read, and it makes sense, is if you are firing a variety of weapons to only have the box of the caliber you are firing at the moment open.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

One day this past summer, my son and I spent a morning shooting handguns. After our shoot, my son agreed to clean our guns since he did not bring any ammo and was "bummin' ammo off me. So I settled into my chair to relax while the smell of solvent filled the room...I could see him across the room cleaning it and assumed since he had cleaned firearms hundreds of times, that all was well. 

A few minutes later, he walks over and hands me the gun and announced it was clean. Like a damn dumbass rookie foolish idiot, I take the handgun from him and point it toward the ceiling to get a good sight down the top of the weapon...to make sure he had reassembled the firearm correctly. 

Then it hit me like a box of hammers, I DIDN'T CLEAR THE GUN!!!!! 

So I look at the gun and to my surprise he had inserted the magazine, so I drop the mag and DAMNIT, I find out its a fully loaded magazine! OH CRAP, I'm getting a bit worried and embarrassed now...so I pull back the slide and (Thank The Lord) no round! 

I was relieved but still mightily pissed at myself (and truth be known, pissed at him as well). 

My finger never passed through the trigger guard but there was a moment, that I thought about dry firing it to make sure all is well...but I didn't. I immediately felt like a dipshit, apologized to him and announced I had clearly broken a safety rule. Then I lit into him to remind him to NEVER pass a gun to someone with a loaded mag or worse, a round in the chamber.

We both had a big safety reminder; My son; to never hand a weapon to another person with a round in the mag or in the chamber. Go ahead and drop the mag and clear the action before you hand a gun to another... And me; to never accept a weapon without clearing that weapon and inspecting it thoroughly.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

True gun nuts don't trust anyone but themselves to ensure the weapon is clear.
A common scenario - Gun nut #2 is interested in gun nut #1's revolver. #1 opens cylinder, visually inspects revolver to ensure it is empty, hands it to #2 with the cylinder open. #2, even though the revolver has just been ensured to be clear before his very eyes and the cylinder is open, still inspects the revolver to make sure it is clear.
Sound absurd? Maybe to casual gun owners, but not to me. I do the very same thing.

Just like Slippy said in his last sentence, he does too. But all it takes is one moment of inattention.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Age doesn't automatically mean common sense. Just look at all the older people in our government and the decisions they make. 

That's one of the bad things about having a range and allowing people over to shoot. You never know what you going to get. It's your property and guess you is going to be held responsible. After a little while I guarantee you will be down to a small list of "trusted" people that will be allowed on your range.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Legally I can shoot on my own property. But I do not wish to be an annoyance to others who live nearby so I drive 35 miles to the free range.
About 5 years ago one guy down around the bend would get 10 or so of his buddies over on a Sunday afternoon and it sounded like WWII for hours.
He must have gotten foreclosed on or someone took him to task, but it's been quiet for the last 4 years or so.


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## knfmn1 (Dec 2, 2014)

I have a buddy who had a couple of beers to drink one night and decided he wanted to do some dry fire practice with his M1917. He picked it up and promptly "dry fired" a .45 caliber hole in the wall. I try to learn from others mistakes.  don't mess with guns when you drink and always, always triple check to make sure they're empty before dry firing.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Thanks for the reminder slip. Glad everything turned out ok and your buddy learned a valuable lesson.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I once was checking out an M-1 carbine in a gun shop. First thing I did was to check the action to make sure its empty. The shop keeper started telling me its empty and unnecessary as I eject a round across the store. We both just about craped ourselves.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> True gun nuts don't trust anyone but themselves to ensure the weapon is clear.
> A common scenario - Gun nut #2 is interested in gun nut #1's revolver. #1 opens cylinder, visually inspects revolver to ensure it is empty, hands it to #2 with the cylinder open. #2, even though the revolver has just been ensured to be clear before his very eyes and the cylinder is open, still inspects the revolver to make sure it is clear.
> Sound absurd? Maybe to casual gun owners, but not to me. I do the very same thing.
> 
> Just like Slippy said in his last sentence, he does too. But all it takes is one moment of inattention.


Agree with that. When I shoot with others I always check the chamber before passing it to someone or 1st thing when someone passes a weapon to me. Sometimes I get an odd comment from them but I've found shells in the chambers of supposedly empty weapons twice.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

FoolAmI said:


> Agree with that. When I shoot with others I always check the chamber before passing it to someone or 1st thing when someone passes a weapon to me. Sometimes I get an odd comment from them but I've found shells in the chambers of supposedly empty weapons twice.


It should be normal to do.
Anyone who looks at you funny for checking a weapon they just checked isn't being careful enough.

If I ever hand over a firearm, I do so only after opening the chamber and locking it back. All rounds are confirmed removed, and the gun is handed over in that manner for inspection.
I fully expect them to confirm again.


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