# Pocket full of spending currency post SHTF



## budgetprepp-n

Ok we all know that gold and silver have held value since the beginning if time. But awhile after the SHTF the dust will settle.
People will start sticking there head out when they think it won't get it blown off. And the trading will start. Where I live it's
mostly farmers and a few hog farms and lots of cattle. If you are in the city the trading will start sooner. NO FOOD. 
People are going to do some crazy chit. You may laugh now but in the city rat on a stick might end up looking good.
So what can you carry that would be like having cash? Little packets of Salt, Pepper, Honey or packets of hot sauce.
And they are free (sort of) When ever I hit a fast food place I get 1 or two packs of something 
and put it in my mason jar at home. They ad up faster than you might think. 
Think about were our spices come from. 
Most people have no idea of how to make any spices.


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## StratMaster

The spice trade was really something in the distant past, with spices (and even salt) usually only available to the very wealthy. There is an antiquated term "below the salt" which described somewhat your station in life in general, or specifically your station in a household. At the long feeding tables, the master of the house and family would crowd at one end, various mid-level members seated along the middle, and down to the lowliest scalawag in the house at the end. There was a point at the table where which the salt could not be passed further down... those further down being "below the salt". So I agree with your plan and think it a good one... as I myself have bulk spices stored and rotated. Buckets of salt and sugars! Jars of pepper, basil, oregano. and the like. 
Gold and silver will not be traded IMO, only presently useful/needed commodities and services. Gold and silver are to protect your wealth from a currency collapse, and will still reflect the value of your wealth when the economic SHTF finally passes and a new currency issued.


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## stowlin

Capacity to make soap and the supplies needed too in order to make soap will be useful,
Paracord and or wic material may have good barter potential, and I’ve read here many times about TP but also rubbing alcohol as well as whiskey.


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## budgetprepp-n

StratMaster said:


> The spice trade was really something in the distant past, with spices (and even salt) usually only available to the very wealthy. There is an antiquated term "below the salt" which described somewhat your station in life in general, or specifically your station in a household. At the long feeding tables, the master of the house and family would crowd at one end, various mid-level members seated along the middle, and down to the lowliest scalawag in the house at the end. There was a point at the table where which the salt could not be passed further down... those further down being "below the salt". So I agree with your plan and think it a good one... as I myself have bulk spices stored and rotated. Buckets of salt and sugars! Jars of pepper, basil, oregano. and the like.
> Gold and silver will not be traded IMO, only presently useful/needed commodities and services. Gold and silver are to protect your wealth from a currency collapse, and will still reflect the value of your wealth when the economic SHTF finally passes and a new currency issued.


 You'r right about silver and gold and I do think that silver and gold will be the first true currency. Think about it the guy over seas is still making stuff that
he would like to sell to the U.S.A. But he not going to want our paper money. YEP Silver or gold and the man that buys there stuff with silver and gold
how do think he would prefer to be paid? Old US silver or gold coins will be king of the currency. For a while.


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## budgetprepp-n

stowlin said:


> Capacity to make soap and the supplies needed too in order to make soap will be useful,
> Paracord and or wic material may have good barter potential, and I've read here many times about TP but also rubbing alcohol as well as whiskey.


That's true but I can carry a lot of salt and sugar packets without showing it.
Like carrying a little spending money. And right now there free. < Good tip for a new prepper on a budget
How many rolls of paper you going have in your pockets?


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## budgetprepp-n

stowlin said:


> Capacity to make soap and the supplies needed too in order to make soap will be useful,
> Paracord and or wic material may have good barter potential, and I've read here many times about TP but also rubbing alcohol as well as whiskey.


That's all grade A stuff for a trading post.


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## Jammer Six

Maybe.

Ripping off people now for something that might happen in the future isn't my style.


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## WhatTheHeck

What kind of SHTF event has taken place? 

If the JIT food delivery system has shut down, food will be at a premium. 

Salt. It is the one mineral humans need to maintain our bodies. Can be used for curing various things.

Vitamin C. To prevent scurvy. Those little drink mix packets. 

Depending how long the SHTF crisis lasts, will determine what has value. In the beginning, cash, gold and silver will hold value. As the crisis continues, the grocery store shelves empty or worse, looted and burned to the ground, food and fresh water will be priorities.


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## Denton

budgetprepp-n said:


> You'r right about silver and gold and I do think that silver and gold will be the first true currency. Think about it the guy over seas is still making stuff that
> he would like to sell to the U.S.A. But he not going to want our paper money. YEP Silver or gold and the man that buys there stuff with silver and gold
> how do think he would prefer to be paid? Old US silver or gold coins will be king of the currency. For a while.


For centuries, gold was for international trade and silver was for domestic trade. I like to think that after the dust settles, we'll be smart enough to not allow fiat currency destroy lives and nations again and will go back to the tried and true money, gold and silver, and hang anyone who suggests we use currencies, again.


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## Camel923

Gold and silver ingots are wealth preservation vehicles for when a profound and prolonged crisis of currency happens. That could just be economic collapse or emp amoung other things. Junk silver, US currency that has degraded so has not to have collector value with be the gap between debt notes we now possess and true barter. Tins of meat, medicine, means to make fire, tobacco, alcohol, means to repair things such as a cobbler or roofer will have value for barter. That gold and diamond necklace, not so much.


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## Jammer Six

What's wrong with currency?

I thought the basic principle was sound, and it's always discipline that fails.


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## Denton

Jammer Six said:


> What's wrong with currency?
> 
> I thought the basic principle was sound, and it's always discipline that fails.


Currency has always led to the downfall of nations. 
Look at the Roman Empire. Those who like to collect coins from the Roman Empire will attest to the fact that the older coins will be in better shape than the coins made in the latter days. Why? Because the older coins were actual money while the latter coins were made from worthless metals that deteriorate. In other words, Rome started using "currency" that was backed by nothing than the expectation of value.
The USD is now the same and has been so for decades. There was a time when we could exchange a note for money (gold and silver). That was when the notes were backed by gold and silver. Today, the USD is backed by nothing more than the expectation of value and nothing else. Your spending ability is influenced by the actions of the government and the Federal Reserve. When the day comes when there is economic collapse, the USD dollar won't even be worth heat-generation as it doesn't even burn with a darn.


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## paraquack

IMHO, I don't believe in stocking precious metals. 
Trading for non-useful things like PM won't last very long.
I like dollar bills, at least I can wipe my @$$ with it. 
But I do stock up on semi precious metals like brass and copper plated lead.


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## Denton

paraquack said:


> IMHO, I don't believe in stocking precious metals.
> Trading for non-useful things like PM won't last very long.
> I like dollar bills, at least I can wipe my @$$ with it.
> But I do stock up on semi precious metals like brass and copper plated lead.


You'd be better off stockpiling toilet paper. The USD is not even good for that.
By the way, there are several "hobby farmers" around here who'll laugh at you when you bring dollars for food after the SHTF, but they'll take silver for food.
Don't think you'll use your brass and lead to take what you want. They and their friends, families and neighbors are well armed and most are vets.


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## Smitty901

With in seconds of you pulling out gold or silver to barder anything, It will be on. A gun to your head if you were not shot already. Darn few will give ypu a leg of lamb or side of beef for your sliver or gold. They will take your gold and silver and their lamb and beef on home.


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## Denton

Smitty901 said:


> With in seconds of you pulling out gold or silver to barder anything, It will be on. A gun to your head if you were not shot already. Darn few will give ypu a leg of lamb or side of beef for your sliver or gold. They will take your gold and silver and their lamb and beef on home.


Do you think that will be different with anything of value? That lamb or cow will make you a target.
So, silver and gold will be worthless yet people with them will be shot for them?
Don't attempt to use gold or silver because they are valuable and will get you killed?
None of it makes sense.
One would be more of a target while carrying bags of food bak to the house than one would be when carrying a few ounces of silver in one's pocket while traveling to a friend's farm or some barter market. Simply having a means of transportation other than boots will make one a target, yet you are worried about items in one's pocket making one a target?

I wish people would think a little deeper.

Highwaymen stole and murdered the weak back in the days, but they didn't do that to the strong. Furthermore, they were caught and hung.

It boggles my mind how people think precious metals will magically get you killed while those items you want to buy with the precious metals are somehow safe.

Bottom lines is, whatever you have of value isn't really yours if you can't protect it and yourself.


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## WhatTheHeck

It appears to me, several people are making different assumptions based of the original post.

Is the SHTF event a short or long term one?

How many people have survived or, have passed on?

What does the current society look like or is there even one?

Some people may take gold or silver in trade. But what will it be worth? Will a dozen eggs still cost $3.99 a dozen? If there are no grocery stores who is to say what a dozen eggs cost?

If there is a massive die off, will there even be enough people left around to build an economy? I have read through various articles suggesting a 90% die off if a real SHTF event were to occur.


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## stowlin

budgetprepp-n said:


> That's true but I can carry a lot of salt and sugar packets without showing it.
> Like carrying a little spending money. And right now there free. < Good tip for a new prepper on a budget
> How many rolls of paper you going have in your pockets?


My pocket has no TP but my attic has a bunch it's more costly then insulation but works about the same and storage is both easy and currently valuable.


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## Denton

WhatTheHeck said:


> It appears to me, several people are making different assumptions based of the original post.
> 
> Is the SHTF event a short or long term one?
> 
> How many people have survived or, have passed on?
> 
> What does the current society look like or is there even one?
> 
> Some people may take gold or silver in trade. But what will it be worth? Will a dozen eggs still cost $3.99 a dozen? If there are no grocery stores who is to say what a dozen eggs cost?
> 
> If there is a massive die off, will there even be enough people left around to build an economy? I have read through various articles suggesting a 90% die off if a real SHTF event were to occur.


10% of 7 billion is, what? 70 million? 
In 1 AD there were an estimated 170 million. Even before then, using precious metals as well as barter was the way it was done.
As far as what is valued at what level, the marketplace will sort out all that.


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## ekim

Have gun will travel and live to fight another day. With the gun you can hunt for food and protect it from others who don't want to hunt for themselves. At least the gun should give you a chance /choice! Gold/PM not so much.:tango_face_smile:


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## Denton

ekim said:


> Have gun will travel and live to fight another day. With the gun you can hunt or food and protect it from others who don't want to hunt for themselves. At least the gun should give you a chance /choice! Gold/PM not so much.:tango_face_smile:


I'd say being armed goes without saying.
I'd also suggest those who can't or won't provide their own food are unprepared in just about every other area of survival and have nothing of value.

Bottom line? Prepare now, and network now. We are. We get together once a month for training and relationship-building.


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## WhatTheHeck

Denton said:


> 10% of 7 billion is, what? 70 million?
> In 1 AD there were an estimated 170 million. Even before then, using precious metals as well as barter was the way it was done.
> As far as what is valued at what level, the marketplace will sort out all that.


Where I live, if 90% of the population were to die off, there is a good chance I might see the only ones left a few times a month, assuming whatever fuels in the tanks are gone and the primary means of transportation is walking.

Do not recall the article, but I seem to recall a study where a large % of the human population lives within so many miles of the coasts. I think it was the Joint Operations Environment.

Is there even enough gold and silver in private hands to develop an economy? Live in a rural community of say one thousand people, nine hundred die off, we are just passing the same few coins around to each other.


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## inceptor

The first year will be the hardest. Bartering will be on a limited basis as people will try to take whatever they want or need. It's when things settle down that bartering will begin.

But what if someone has what you want or need but you have nothing they want or need? Will you just try to take it? That's when PM's come in handy. It gives you extra barter. Currency will begin again. It always has. Then you can trade your PM's for whatever currency is available.

If you think PM's have been worthless in the past, you have not studied history. Currencies come and go but gold, silver and gems have had and will always have value. It won't in a grid down situation but once things settle down, and they always do, then you have something of value.


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## A Watchman

WhatTheHeck said:


> It appears to me, several people are making different assumptions based of the original post.
> 
> Is the SHTF event a short or long term one?
> 
> How many people have survived or, have passed on?
> 
> What does the current society look like or is there even one?
> 
> Some people may take gold or silver in trade. But what will it be worth? Will a dozen eggs still cost $3.99 a dozen? If there are no grocery stores who is to say what a dozen eggs cost?
> 
> If there is a massive die off, will there even be enough people left around to build an economy? I have read through various articles suggesting a 90% die off if a real SHTF event were to occur.





Denton said:


> 10% of 7 billion is, what? 70 million?
> In 1 AD there were an estimated 170 million. Even before then, using precious metals as well as barter was the way it was done.
> As far as what is valued at what level, the marketplace will sort out all that.


The "elitist" have made it no secret that they desire that the Earth's just under 8 billion population needs to be reduced to 3 billion. How they plan to do it &#8230;.. well, they aren't telling us.


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## Slippy

I'm "banking" on there being a lucrative market for "Severed Heads on Glorious Handmade Pikes"!


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## Jammer Six

Denton said:


> I'd also suggest those who can't or won't provide their own food are unprepared in just about every other area of survival and have nothing of value.


Except for medical doctors.


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## Jammer Six

Jammer Six said:


> Except for medical doctors.


And people who know how the get the creek to spit out electricity.


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## Jammer Six

Jammer Six said:


> And people who know how the get the creek to spit out electricity.


And people who know how to repair the roof.


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## Jammer Six

Jammer Six said:


> And people who know how to repair the roof.


And the town slut.


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## Jammer Six

Jammer Six said:


> And the town slut.


Oh, and all the children of those folks. The doc doesn't concentrate when her kids are missing.

And just about everyone else.

Very, very few people honestly have nothing to offer, and those by personality flaws, not ability. Even the least among us can stand a two hour fire watch.


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## Jammer Six

Here's one of the things that has always baffled me: let's say anyone in the U.S. can, at any time, walk into a bank and exchange a twenty for twenty bucks worth of gold.

What have you accomplished? Why is the ability to trade paper for metal (a reasonably useless metal, as far as uses for survival independent of money go) important?

The note represents some changing amount of gold. Fine. It also represents payment for the ditch you dug to get it, or the fruits of the purse you snatched. None of those representations really matter, either.

So why, _exactly_, does the gold matter?

You come to me with gold, and you're going to have to go away, change the gold into currency and come back.


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## inceptor

Jammer Six said:


> Here's one of the things that has always baffled me: let's say anyone in the U.S. can, at any time, walk into a bank and exchange a twenty for twenty bucks worth of gold.
> 
> What have you accomplished? Why is the ability to trade paper for metal (a reasonably useless metal, as far as uses for survival independent of money go) important?
> 
> The note represents some changing amount of gold. Fine. It also represents payment for the ditch you dug to get it, or the fruits of the purse you snatched. None of those representations really matter, either.
> 
> *So why, exactly, does the gold matter?
> *
> You come to me with gold, and you're going to have to go away, change the gold into currency and come back.


Because paper money comes and goes. They can change it in a very short time span. Let's say our economy crashes (not a big stretch there) and the dollar becomes worthless. There has been talk of the Amero for years so we will use that in this example.

So the dollar becomes like the Bolivar, not worth the paper it's written on. The govt decides to implement said Amero backed by who knows what. What value do the dollars you own have now? Where as gold and silver will still maintain the market value associated with it. That's not just a US value but a world wide value since it has value in all countries.

Do some research. This is why many countries have been trying to get the gold they stored in the FED for years. Last I heard they had not made any headway.

China on the other hand has been buying up all the gold they can get their hands on. China will be on the gold standard in the near future. The point being that their currency will have value in any country like the dollar has had.

In Venezuela now a chicken can cost 14.6 million Bolivars but with US dollars it's $2.22. This was reported recently in the UK. Venezuela used to back their money with oil but since they have all but destroyed that industry they are now looking at 1m% inflation for this year. On the other hand, gold and silver will get you whatever you want.


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## jimb1972

Jammer Six said:


> And the town slut.


Terminology is important, if she is trading sex for something she is not a slut, sluts give it away.


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## stowlin

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/09/germany-brings-its-gold-stash-home-sooner-than-planned.html

Germany has taken much of its gold out of the US and it was reported so in 2017 as noted in the link,

I have long viewed gold as essential to investing and growing wealth in a time of crisis and silver for the perishables, labor to be hired / paid and smaller investments.



inceptor said:


> Because paper money comes and goes. They can change it in a very short time span. Let's say our economy crashes (not a big stretch there) and the dollar becomes worthless. There has been talk of the Amero for years so we will use that in this example.
> 
> So the dollar becomes like the Bolivar, not worth the paper it's written on. The govt decides to implement said Amero backed by who knows what. What value do the dollars you own have now? Where as gold and silver will still maintain the market value associated with it. That's not just a US value but a world wide value since it has value in all countries.
> 
> Do some research. This is why many countries have been trying to get the gold they stored in the FED for years. Last I heard they had not made any headway.
> 
> China on the other hand has been buying up all the gold they can get their hands on. China will be on the gold standard in the near future. The point being that their currency will have value in any country like the dollar has had.
> 
> In Venezuela now a chicken can cost 14.6 million Bolivars but with US dollars it's $2.22. This was reported recently in the UK. Venezuela used to back their money with oil but since they have all but destroyed that industry they are now looking at 1m% inflation for this year. On the other hand, gold and silver will get you whatever you want.


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## StratMaster

Denton said:


> For centuries, gold was for international trade and silver was for domestic trade. I like to think that after the dust settles, we'll be smart enough to not allow fiat currency destroy lives and nations again and will go back to the tried and true money, gold and silver, and hang anyone who suggests we use currencies, again.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wish I could like that comment 100 times...


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## jimb1972

Jammer Six said:


> Here's one of the things that has always baffled me: let's say anyone in the U.S. can, at any time, walk into a bank and exchange a twenty for twenty bucks worth of gold.
> 
> What have you accomplished? Why is the ability to trade paper for metal (a reasonably useless metal, as far as uses for survival independent of money go) important?
> 
> The note represents some changing amount of gold. Fine. It also represents payment for the ditch you dug to get it, or the fruits of the purse you snatched. None of those representations really matter, either.
> 
> So why, _exactly_, does the gold matter?
> 
> You come to me with gold, and you're going to have to go away, change the gold into currency and come back.


During economic collapse like in the Wiemar Republic in Germany after WWI a wheelbarrow full of paper money would not buy a loaf of bread, while an ounce of gold would probably buy the bakery, and the bakers daughter. Paper money is only as good as the faith in the currency of those who trade it, because it is based on rainbows and unicorn farts.


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## Denton

Jammer Six said:


> Except for medical doctors.


Surgeons. Surgeons who have their proper implements of destruction. And bourbon. Plenty of bourbon.

As far as regular doctors, I'd prefer an accomplished herbalist. I know one, and he is worth his weight in gold.


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## Jammer Six

That's my point-- the only value gold has in an emergency is the same as the paper money.

_It's only valuable because people place an artificial value on it.
_
Just like paper money, it has no value on its own. At least you can burn paper money.


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## Jammer Six

Denton said:


> Surgeons. Surgeons who have their proper implements of destruction. And bourbon. Plenty of bourbon.
> 
> As far as regular doctors, I'd prefer an accomplished herbalist. I know one, and he is worth his weight in gold.


Yup.

Most folks are worth feeding, even if they didn't prepare to feed themselves.

People are the ultimate resource; leadership the ultimate survival skill.


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## jimb1972

Jammer Six said:


> That's my point-- the only value gold has in an emergency is the same as the paper money.
> 
> _It's only valuable because people place an artificial value on it.
> _
> Just like paper money, it has no value on its own. At least you can burn paper money.


I don't believe any population in recorded history has lost faith in gold, it's value may decline but not disappear entirely.


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## StratMaster

Jammer Six said:


> That's my point-- the only value gold has in an emergency is the same as the paper money.
> 
> _It's only valuable because people place an artificial value on it.
> _
> Just like paper money, it has no value on its own. At least you can burn paper money.


You don't have a point. 
Your every sentence demonstrates you do not understand even the most basic properties of money... either fiat OR real money i.e. gold and silver. AT ALL. Yours are the very same erroneous observations and comments made _over and over and over _ad nauseam... and then corrected time and again year after year by those with only basic knowledge on the subject. And yes, I could write you many, many paragraphs or pages explaining the errors you have made, but It's already been done thousands of times and isn't worth the effort for receipt of another of your one - two sentence responses/assertions/denials without your bothering to substantiate. You'll have to educate yourself or continue on ignorant.
Here's some words you might want to look up to get you started understanding the storage of productive efforts in money form:
Fungible
Durable
Portability 
Rare
Divisibility
Only PM's retain ALL these qualities when a currency collapses. They are not REMOTELY the same as paper money, which does not.


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## Denton

Jammer Six said:


> Here's one of the things that has always baffled me: let's say anyone in the U.S. can, at any time, walk into a bank and exchange a twenty for twenty bucks worth of gold.
> 
> What have you accomplished? Why is the ability to trade paper for metal (a reasonably useless metal, as far as uses for survival independent of money go) important?
> 
> The note represents some changing amount of gold. Fine. It also represents payment for the ditch you dug to get it, or the fruits of the purse you snatched. None of those representations really matter, either.
> 
> So why, _exactly_, does the gold matter?
> 
> You come to me with gold, and you're going to have to go away, change the gold into currency and come back.


Remember my post a few hours ago? About Rome and its coins? Rome was fraudulent in that it didn't tell its people it was coining crap. At least it was known that the U.S. was detaching the dollar from actual value.

Both gold and silver have value, and have always had value. Gold was mentioned in Genesis, even. Down through the ages, gold and silver have had mystical qualities. Today, we not only see the intrisic value of them, but we also know the fantastic electrical properties of them.

Do I understand why they have stood the test of the many centuries? No. What I do know is that they have.

Do I know why I am a horrible silver bug? No. I guess it doesn't matter as I can conceal twenty dollars of silver in my pocket but I can't do that with twenty dollars worth of vegetables.


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## Denton

I'd like to remind us all that rather than wondering if we should collect gold and silver, we should be thinking about what we can do to take gold and silver when the day comes when the currency of our country becomes worthless.


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## Jammer Six

Yup.

The value people place on it, nothing more.

Here's the thing with gold (or any such substitute).

If you and I are trying to trade, and you whip out your gold for some of the food I have, if you and I can't privately agree on what the gold is worth, it has no value. I keep my food, you keep your gold, _because the necessary agreement about it's artificial value is not present.

_So I guess you'll keep your gold, and I'll keep my food.

Any value placed on the gold requires voluntary participation by all parties in the fantasy.

You should just put your shinies away. Come on in, and I'll feed you. Bring your family.


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## Denton

jimb1972 said:


> I don't believe any population in recorded history has lost faith in gold, it's value may decline but not disappear entirely.


Did its value decline, or did confidence in currency inflate?


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## inceptor

Jammer Six said:


> That's my point-- the only value gold has in an emergency is the same as the paper money.
> 
> _It's only valuable because people place an artificial value on it.
> _
> Just like paper money, it has no value on its own. At least you can burn paper money.





StratMaster said:


> *You don't have a point.*


Actually he does. His point is that he is sure he'll be fine without it. And that's ok by me. Different strokes for different folks.

You probably know quite a few people who you can't talk into prepping for much of anything. I gave up talking to people like that a long time ago. And hopefully, if things get bad, they won't remember me trying to get them to stock up.

Many (not all but enough) of those same people wouldn't own a gun if you gave them one. That's their choice and they are the ones who have to live with their decisions.


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## Jammer Six

inceptor said:


> Actually he does. His point is that he is sure he'll be fine without it. And that's ok by me. Different strokes for different folks.


Exactly.

We'll be prepared to feed you, but we won't need to trade with you, at least not for gold. We'll find something you can do that really matters.


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## inceptor

Denton said:


> I'd like to remind us all that rather than wondering if we should collect gold and silver, we should be thinking about what we can do to take gold and silver when the day comes when the currency of our country becomes worthless.


All ready working on that one.



Denton said:


> Did its value decline, or did confidence in currency inflate?


According to people much smarter than me, gold still has the purchasing power it did back several millennia ago. What makes gold and silver go up and down here is the value of our dollar. Right now both are down due to a slightly stronger dollar.


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## stowlin

My father said boats were only good for fishing and never appreciated or wanted anything to do with sailboats. When I got my first sail boat and he was still alive I got him to go out with me, and he found it an awesome experience as do I so I revisited his earlier comment. It turned out the WWII navy veteran never understood sailing so he never appreciated it. I find those who don't appreciate good don't have it and probably shouldn't because they don't appreciate it.



Jammer Six said:


> That's my point-- the only value gold has in an emergency is the same as the paper money.
> 
> _It's only valuable because people place an artificial value on it.
> _
> Just like paper money, it has no value on its own. At least you can burn paper money.


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## stowlin

A chart I've seen says $100 in 1880 would get you 5-$20 gold pieces which of course is now valued at $6,000 at $1200 an ounce, but the same chart says inflation from 1880 to date puts a $100 at about $2600. One could say gold is a bit over valued if in fact it was evenly valued in 1880.



inceptor said:


> All ready working on that one.
> 
> According to people much smarter than me, gold still has the purchasing power it did back several millennia ago. What makes gold and silver go up and down here is the value of our dollar. Right now both are down due to a slightly stronger dollar.


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## Denton

Jammer Six said:


> Yup.
> 
> The value people place on it, nothing more.
> 
> Here's the thing with gold (or any such substitute).
> 
> If you and I are trying to trade, and you whip out your gold for some of the food I have, if you and I can't privately agree on what the gold is worth, it has no value. I keep my food, you keep your gold, _because the necessary agreement about it's artificial value is not present.
> 
> _So I guess you'll keep your gold, and I'll keep my food.
> 
> Any value placed on the gold requires voluntary participation by all parties in the fantasy.
> 
> You should just put your shinies away. Come on in, and I'll feed you. Bring your family.


You'll take some of my precious metals because I'd respect you that much. I'll figure you'll learn thousands of years of history, eventually. Me, however; my job is to make sure I am not in a position where my metals are how I survive. That's not what it is about. It's about money and not survival. Not to someone who is prepared.


----------



## inceptor

Denton said:


> You'll take some of my precious metals because I'd respect you that much. I'll figure you'll learn thousands of years of history, eventually. Me, however; my job is to make sure I am not in a position where my metals are how I survive. That's not what it is about. It's about money and not survival. Not to someone who is prepared.


PM's should only be a part of your preps, not your only prep.

IMHO PM's won't be useful until at least a year has gone by. Much of the population will have died off and those left should be willing to trade. Not everyone can stock all things. Items will need to be bartered by necessity. PM's will only be one of many possible barter items. PM's will also be useful when a new govt is organized and can issue a new currency.


----------



## Denton

inceptor said:


> PM's should only be a part of your preps, not your only prep.
> 
> IMHO PM's won't be useful until at least a year has gone by. Much of the population will have died off and those left should be willing to trade. Not everyone can stock all things. Items will need to be bartered by necessity. PM's will only be one of many possible barter items. PM's will also be useful when a new govt is organized and can issue a new currency.


Absolutely. Doing nothing but buying precious metals is stupid. No other way to say it. Question is, is anyone eally doing that?
You won't have to wait a year for your precious metals to be valuable, but it'd be smarter to be the guy who is in demand so you can earn the precious metals.


----------



## inceptor

Denton said:


> Absolutely. Doing nothing but buying precious metals is stupid. No other way to say it. Question is, is anyone eally doing that?


Actually I'm pretty sure I know someone who is doing exactly that, with gold.


----------



## Jammer Six

If a disaster occurs here that lasts a year, we won't be here. We'll be long, long gone.


----------



## Denton

Jammer Six said:


> If a disaster occurs here that lasts a year, we won't be here. We'll be long, long gone.


If you make it this far, ask for Denton. If they don't know me, ask to be pointed toward Jack Alabama and ask around. Eventually, the name will mean something.


----------



## StratMaster

Denton said:


> Absolutely. Doing nothing but buying precious metals is stupid. No other way to say it. Question is, is anyone eally doing that?
> You won't have to wait a year for your precious metals to be valuable, but it'd be smarter to be the guy who is in demand so you can earn the precious metals.


Yes, gold is the LAST thing to buy... if, after every other imaginable prep - land guns ammo food water supplies etc... - is fulfilled twice over and you STILL have SUBSTANTIAL paper assets, then gold. There might be some who are ONLY buying PM's , but they are commodities speculators, not preppers. A guy could get pretty hungry waiting a year or two for a new currency system to form and for his gold to have value again.


----------



## Smitty901

Denton said:


> Do you think that will be different with anything of value? That lamb or cow will make you a target.
> So, silver and gold will be worthless yet people with them will be shot for them?
> Don't attempt to use gold or silver because they are valuable and will get you killed?
> None of it makes sense.
> One would be more of a target while carrying bags of food bak to the house than one would be when carrying a few ounces of silver in one's pocket while traveling to a friend's farm or some barter market. Simply having a means of transportation other than boots will make one a target, yet you are worried about items in one's pocket making one a target?
> 
> I wish people would think a little deeper.
> 
> Highwaymen stole and murdered the weak back in the days, but they didn't do that to the strong. Furthermore, they were caught and hung.
> 
> It boggles my mind how people think precious metals will magically get you killed while those items you want to buy with the precious metals are somehow safe.
> 
> Bottom lines is, whatever you have of value isn't really yours if you can't protect it and yourself.


 Gold and silver ammo , guns ect have a different value. That alone will cause more extreme action from many. Kind of like a pair of shoes or an I phone in the hood today.


----------



## jimb1972

Denton said:


> Did its value decline, or did confidence in currency inflate?


Actually the only reference I could find to gold being devalued was biblical. According to the bible Solomon brought so much wealth into Israel at one time that silver was worthless and gold of little value because there was such an abundance. I suspect the value elsewhere was the same or increased due to scarcity.


----------



## inceptor

Denton said:


> I'd like to remind us all that rather than wondering if we should collect gold and silver, we should be thinking about what we can do to take gold and silver when the day comes when the currency of our country becomes worthless.


Well, I'm about to start another way to pick up things. AND it's all @bigwheel's fault.

I already can my laundry soap 10 gal at a time. I'm about to make liquid hand soap also. But Bigwheel got me thinking about another option, root beer. So I've ordered a book to see how hard it's gonna be. Besides, I like root beer. So, if nothing else. it will be a treat for me.


----------



## jimb1972

I am not a fan of rootbeer, but you got me thinking because I love ginger ale.


----------



## Jammer Six

After thinking about it, I can see root beer as a diversion.

Given a fairly good quake, no way to get out until at least morning, no electricity, no natural gas, no internet, I'm always on the lookout for stuff you can gather the neighborhood kids together with their parents and do to relax for evening. (In this neighborhood, it seems like there's _always_ half a dozen kids under ten running around. They grow up, they go away, and then it seems like there's always a new one just learning to walk, who isn't big enough to be good for anything yet.) We've been storing (and rotating) enough canned Stagg chili to have a neighborhood chili feed if things get real bad. It seems like making root beer would fit that category perfectly. Not only that, it would take up two evenings.


----------



## budgetprepp-n

Jammer Six said:


> Maybe.
> 
> Ripping off people now for something that might happen in the future isn't my style.


Then ask them put some extra stuff in the bag. 
That way it was given to you. Sleep better?


----------



## Jammer Six

I'm sure that would help you sleep.


----------



## tonybluegoat

budgetprepp-n said:


> Ok we all know that gold and silver have held value since the beginning if time. But awhile after the SHTF the dust will settle.
> People will start sticking there head out when they think it won't get it blown off. And the trading will start. Where I live it's
> mostly farmers and a few hog farms and lots of cattle. If you are in the city the trading will start sooner. NO FOOD.
> People are going to do some crazy chit. You may laugh now but in the city rat on a stick might end up looking good.
> So what can you carry that would be like having cash? Little packets of Salt, Pepper, Honey or packets of hot sauce.
> And they are free (sort of) When ever I hit a fast food place I get 1 or two packs of something
> and put it in my mason jar at home. They ad up faster than you might think.
> Think about were our spices come from.
> Most people have no idea of how to make any spices.


The basis of society will not change. There is a reason money exists. I cannot trade a pair of shoes to someone for a load of firewood IF THEY DON'T WANT SHOES. So, they might want A DIVORCE. So now I have to go find a lawyer who wants a pair of shoes so I can give him my pair of shoes, so he can give the guy with the wood a divorce, so I can get a load of wood from the guy.

The basis of your question is getting into Adam and Eve type prepping. How do you build a society from scratch? The answer is that it has been done thousands of times over 10,000 years at least. And you are assuming that not a single politician, banker or police chief survived the SHTF. Because politicians, bankers and police chiefs already know how to re-establish the normal mechanisms - assuming they fell apart to that extent. Bankers don't make money by letting people trade Soy Sauce Packets or even Gold. They will get people back on a Currency standard real quick. People will still need to work and get paid... even if it's cleaning up the bricks left after all the buildings are bombed into ruin. Who pays for that... the Govt. How? With Paper. Why? Because they can make paper for free.

So the answer is the govt will make paper, the bankers will trade paper, and the police chief will force everyone to use paper ("No black market, profiteers here, gentlemen.") The main thing is that people who run things get rich by running things. They won't let amateurs do it for very long!

Money survived WWII, WWI, and the Second Peloponnesian War of 404 BC (You may know it by it's common name, "The Great Poloponnesian War") If money survived all that then it will survive a little war in America or a Tsunami or a Solar EMP or the Yellowstone Caldera or a Cyber Attack.


----------



## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> The basis of society will not change. There is a reason money exists. I cannot trade a pair of shoes to someone for a load of firewood IF THEY DON'T WANT SHOES. So, they might want A DIVORCE. So now I have to go find a lawyer who wants a pair of shoes so I can give him my pair of shoes, so he can give the guy with the wood a divorce, so I can get a load of wood from the guy.
> 
> The basis of your question is getting into Adam and Eve type prepping. How do you build a society from scratch? The answer is that it has been done thousands of times over 10,000 years at least. And you are assuming that not a single politician, banker or police chief survived the SHTF. Because politicians, bankers and police chiefs already know how to re-establish the normal mechanisms - assuming they fell apart to that extent. Bankers don't make money by letting people trade Soy Sauce Packets or even Gold. They will get people back on a Currency standard real quick. People will still need to work and get paid... even if it's cleaning up the bricks left after all the buildings are bombed into ruin. Who pays for that... the Govt. How? With Paper. Why? Because they can make paper for free.
> 
> So the answer is the govt will make paper, the bankers will trade paper, and the police chief will force everyone to use paper ("No black market, profiteers here, gentlemen.") The main thing is that people who run things get rich by running things. They won't let amateurs do it for very long!
> 
> Money survived WWII, WWI, and the Second Peloponnesian War of 404 BC (You may know it by it's common name, "The Great Poloponnesian War") If money survived all that then it will survive a little war in America or a Tsunami or a Solar EMP or the Yellowstone Caldera or a Cyber Attack.


No.

Silver and gold were, and is, money. That was the case long before fiat currency came about, and fiat currency is a pretty new concept. In the beginning of the note notion, they were backed by precious metals and weren't floated on nothing as the central banks do, today. Even today, the nations who are vying to be the next major superpowers are buying gold in a serious way. That should be a clue for all of us.

You called currency "money," and that is where you erred. "Currency" is not money. When today's economic system fails, the "currency" does, too. It'll be the reason it fails. When that happens, my ammo cans of silver will be worth a lot more than a billion "dollars" of fiat currency notes.

Maybe we will learn from our past. Maybe we won't allow fiat currency and all its economic manipulation to rule the day.


----------



## tonybluegoat

Denton said:


> No.
> 
> Silver and gold were, and is, money. That was the case long before fiat currency came about, and fiat currency is a pretty new concept. In the beginning of the note notion, they were backed by precious metals and weren't floated on nothing as the central banks do, today. Even today, the nations who are vying to be the next major superpowers are buying gold in a serious way. That should be a clue for all of us.
> 
> You called currency "money," and that is where you erred. "Currency" is not money. When today's economic system fails, the "currency" does, too. It'll be the reason it fails. When that happens, my ammo cans of silver will be worth a lot more than a billion "dollars" of fiat currency notes.
> 
> Maybe we will learn from our past. Maybe we won't allow fiat currency and all its economic manipulation to rule the day.


Can't argue with you. I remember when gold was $300 an ounce (in the late 1990's). Not that long ago. But I also have a feeling that "the system" created by people in power that collapses will be quickly replaced by another system by people in power. I'm not saying that normal people won't get creamed or that gold isn't the answer. I am saying that we won't be trading soy sauce packets as currency - or bottle of whiskey - for very long. Germany collapsed but they aren't on a gold system. Venezuela collapsed and they aren't on a gold system. Having gold is the answer, but there will always be currency, especially now.

There was a time when the idea of using gold as currency was a very new idea. Gold has no intrinsic value. It can't be used for much. You can't make a sword out of it or eat it or mate it to your goat or plant it in the ground. It's pretty useless stuff. Prior to electronics it had no actual use. But through a thing called an "inter-subjective order" people convinced both themselves and each other that they would trade stuff that mattered for a piece of metal that didn't. It is "Inter-subjective order" upon which ALL of our establishments rest. A corporation is a made up entity, but the employees, stock holders, bankers, lawyers and CEO all believe it's a real thing.... and so do the customers. Why? shared delusion (Inter-subjective order). Religion, Nationality, Borders, Governments, Economies, Institutions, even the idea that the car coming at you on the road will stay on "their side" of the road and not just drive over and hit you. This are all shared delusions. None of them have any more or less meaning than a dollar bill or a reserved parking place for handicapped people. We all believe it... we pay people to enforce it (lawyers, bankers, politicians, clergy).

I will also say that the most important thing anyone can do is actually own their home and at least one car outright, because I don't care how bad the system collapses if you don't keep making your mortgage or car payments you will get booted. It's like the old saying... "I may get so drunk or high that I cheat on my wife, but I'll never get so drunk or high that I would tell her." The people who actually own your house and cars won't forget that they own them, and when the SHTF they will want them back so they can sell the again to whoever comes out of it with the money.

Fiat currency might be a pretty new idea, but so is electricity and the internal combustion engine. Just because something is new doesn't mean people will go back to the old way. At one point there was a guy saying, "This agriculture thing is a fad. It wasn't that long ago that we were hunting and gathering... there's no way this system will last. It's too complicated. Too centrally managed. It takes to much infrastructure." It turned out that once some things happen they stick around.

Congrats on the ammo cans full of silver. They will be worth a lot when the currency collapses. I believe one day the dollar will collapse. Every currency ever created either has collapsed or is destine to. I just think it will be replaced not by something more tangible (real) but by something less real... Crypto currency probably. Why? Because the trend has been going that way for a few hundred years to less and less real "money." One day a man convinced the world to accept a useless metal disk in exchange for real food and labor. Then the next guy convinced the world to accept a useless piece of paper. At some point a man convinced people that a "stock certificate" was worth something. Then the next guy convinced the world to accept a piece of plastic. It think the next guy will convince the world to accept the IDEA of money in the form of crypto currency.


----------



## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> Can't argue with you. I remember when gold was $300 an ounce (in the late 1990's). Not that long ago. But I also have a feeling that "the system" created by people in power that collapses will be quickly replaced by another system by people in power. I'm not saying that normal people won't get creamed or that gold isn't the answer. I am saying that we won't be trading soy sauce packets as currency - or bottle of whiskey - for very long. Germany collapsed but they aren't on a gold system. Venezuela collapsed and they aren't on a gold system. Having gold is the answer, but there will always be currency, especially now.
> 
> There was a time when the idea of using gold as currency was a very new idea. Gold has no intrinsic value. It can't be used for much. You can't make a sword out of it or eat it or mate it to your goat or plant it in the ground. It's pretty useless stuff. Prior to electronics it had no actual use. But through a thing called an "inter-subjective order" people convinced both themselves and each other that they would trade stuff that mattered for a piece of metal that didn't. It is "Inter-subjective order" upon which ALL of our establishments rest. A corporation is a made up entity, but the employees, stock holders, bankers, lawyers and CEO all believe it's a real thing.... and so do the customers. Why? shared delusion (Inter-subjective order). Religion, Nationality, Borders, Governments, Economies, Institutions, even the idea that the car coming at you on the road will stay on "their side" of the road and not just drive over and hit you. This are all shared delusions. None of them have any more or less meaning than a dollar bill or a reserved parking place for handicapped people. We all believe it... we pay people to enforce it (lawyers, bankers, politicians, clergy).
> 
> I will also say that the most important thing anyone can do is actually own their home and at least one car outright, because I don't care how bad the system collapses if you don't keep making your mortgage or car payments you will get booted. It's like the old saying... "I may get so drunk or high that I cheat on my wife, but I'll never get so drunk or high that I would tell her." The people who actually own your house and cars won't forget that they own them, and when the SHTF they will want them back so they can sell the again to whoever comes out of it with the money.
> 
> Fiat currency might be a pretty new idea, but so is electricity and the internal combustion engine. Just because something is new doesn't mean people will go back to the old way. At one point there was a guy saying, "This agriculture thing is a fad. It wasn't that long ago that we were hunting and gathering... there's no way this system will last. It's too complicated. Too centrally managed. It takes to much infrastructure." It turned out that once some things happen they stick around.
> 
> Congrats on the ammo cans full of silver. They will be worth a lot when the currency collapses. I believe one day the dollar will collapse. Every currency ever created either has collapsed or is destine to. I just think it will be replaced by a new currency and the system won't stay metal system for long.


There's a lot to address, there, so I'll be succinct. That's the best way.

As I said, currency is a new concept, but gold as money is timeless. Call it worthless, but history proves you wrong.

Yes, electricity is new, as is the internet, selfies and cablevision. All these things are irrelevant. Were this not the case, there'd be no market for precious metals and certain governments would not be buying them.
Yes, there will come a day when people throw them out in the streets because they will be worthless, but that is Biblical prophesy. Another discussion.


----------



## tonybluegoat

Denton said:


> There's a lot to address, there, so I'll be succinct. That's the best way.
> 
> As I said, currency is a new concept, but gold as money is timeless. Call it worthless, but history proves you wrong.
> 
> Yes, electricity is new, as is the internet, selfies and cablevision. All these things are irrelevant. Were this not the case, there'd be no market for precious metals and certain governments would not be buying them.
> Yes, there will come a day when people throw them out in the streets because they will be worthless, but that is Biblical prophesy. Another discussion.


If you believe that Biblical Prophecy is real then I can understand your inability to see beyond your own opinions. See you in the next discussion. Governments buy dollars too. So if governments buying something is what makes them real, dollars and Treasury debt is more real than gold. But, again, nothing trumps religious ignorance. You win.


----------



## hawgrider

tonybluegoat said:


> If you believe that Biblical Prophecy is real then I can understand your inability to see beyond your own opinions. See you in the next discussion. Governments buy dollars too. So if governments buying something is what makes them real, dollars and Treasury debt is more real than gold. But, again, nothing trumps religious ignorance. You win.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Fiat currency will come back, but you will have to have a MARK on your forehead or hand to use it... just saying!

it will be hard to track gold and silver or salt and pepper


----------



## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> If you believe that Biblical Prophecy is real then I can understand your inability to see beyond your own opinions. See you in the next discussion. Governments buy dollars too. So if governments buying something is what makes them real, dollars and Treasury debt is more real than gold. But, again, nothing trumps religious ignorance. You win.


Gee, I can't see beyond my (backed by thousands of years of history) opinions, yet you insinuate I am ignorant because I point out that there will come a time when you are correct?

What is the bolivar worth? Would you rather have a sack of bolivars or a brick of gold?


----------



## WhatTheHeck

Historically speaking PMs have had value.

But I have yet to see anyone mention a real SHTF event. 

Venezuela, I have yet to read any articles of anyone trading goods for PMs. 
Even if they were, would a 1oz gold coin buy $1205 worth of food? Due to supply, or the lack thereof, and high demand, I might trade a dozen eggs for a 16oz bar of gold. 
Might being the key word.


----------



## Denton

WhatTheHeck said:


> Historically speaking PMs have had value.
> 
> But I have yet to see anyone mention a real SHTF event.
> 
> Venezuela, I have yet to read any articles of anyone trading goods for PMs.
> Even if they were, would a 1oz gold coin buy $1205 worth of food? Due to supply, or the lack thereof, and high demand, I might trade a dozen eggs for a 16oz bar of gold.
> Might being the key word.


I read such an article a few months ago.

Now, let's say a currency is removed and is replaced with another. What is the worth of the old currency? What is the worth of the case of precious metals? Example - I have DMs I brought home when I left Germany in '89. What are those DMs worth, today? Other than memorobilia from my Army days in Germany, nothing.


----------



## WhatTheHeck

Denton said:


> I read such an article a few months ago.
> 
> Now, let's say a currency is removed and is replaced with another. What is the worth of the old currency? What is the worth of the case of precious metals? Example - I have DMs I brought home when I left Germany in '89. What are those DMs worth, today? Other than memorobilia from my Army days in Germany, nothing.


Could you post the link? 
I would be interested. Seriously.

In a true SHTF event, I do not expect any currency, or PMs to be worth anything if the JIT food supply system has collapsed.


----------



## Denton

WhatTheHeck said:


> Could you post the link?
> I would be interested. Seriously.
> 
> In a true SHTF event, I do not expect any currency, or PMs to be worth anything if the JIT food supply system has collapsed.


I should have posted it here so it would have been kept, but I didn't. I remember it because I found it interesting (that is to say, it reinforced my own thoughts) but I don't remember the source or anything else. Sorry.


----------



## inceptor

What most forget or don't bother with is this. During a SHTF event, some barter will happen out of necessity. That will be need for need. PM's won't become a commodity until things settle down some.

PM's should only be part of your overall plan. If you have something I want but I have nothing you want then there is the possibility that silver or gold could come into play. If there is an economic or governmental collapse, currency will not be much of an option. Such is what's happening right now in Venezuela. If your currency is worthless, how does one intend to use it anyhow? 

PM's are a world wide commodity. I can take some silver to another country and it will still have value. If your currency is worthless, then it won't matter where you take it, it's value is nonexistent. I have some peso's in my drawer that I picked up in the 80's. The only value there is the memories from that trip. Period. Yet the silver ring I bought at the time would still have value because of the silver, if I could find it.


----------



## WhatTheHeck

Denton said:


> I should have posted it here so it would have been kept, but I didn't. I remember it because I found it interesting (that is to say, it reinforced my own thoughts) but I don't remember the source or anything else. Sorry.


That is unfortunate. It truly would of been interesting.

SELCO wrote an article concerning PMs during a SHTF event: https://www.theorganicprepper.com/selco-precious-metals-collapse/

It reinforced my ideas when it came to the value of PMs when food availability was questionable.

There is a book called Genghis Khan, and the Making of the Modern World. In it the author describes how the Khan's forces would encircle a region, drive the locals into the regions city capital. He would seal off the city and begin the siege. 
Someone in this thread mentioned how a single piece of gold could buy not only a bakery but the baker's daughter as well. 
In a city that was the Khan's objective, the month before the siege, that might have been true. 
A month after the siege began, a gold coin may have bought five loaves of bread. 
After six months, a gold coin may have bought one loaf of bread.
After a year, when the Khan's forces entered the city, there was not a dog, cat or rat to be found. Even insects were absent. 
The value of food had sky rocketed to the point gold was worthless.

That is the kind of SHTF event I am imagining here in the US if the JIT food system were to fail.


----------



## inceptor

WhatTheHeck said:


> Could you post the link?
> I would be interested. Seriously.
> 
> In a true SHTF event, I do not expect any currency, or PMs to be worth anything if the JIT food supply system has collapsed.


Here is one article I found.

https://srsroccoreport.com/srsrocco...oz-silver-buys-6-months-of-food-in-venezuela/


----------



## WhatTheHeck

inceptor said:


> Here is one article I found.
> 
> https://srsroccoreport.com/srsrocco...oz-silver-buys-6-months-of-food-in-venezuela/


Thank you.

But, that reads more like an ad. 
And while he says silver will buy six months of food, has anyone actually, boots on the ground, done it?


----------



## Denton

The one I read was more of reporting from the ground. It was commenting on bartering as well as the use of precious metals because of the lack of value of the currency.


----------



## inceptor

I agree with what Selco wrote.



> So as an exception, yes, you can have, and even deal (trade, collect)precious metals when everything collapses and wait for a better time and better rate, but you need organization for that.
> 
> But if your whole prepping plan is having PMs and hoping that when the SHTF some kind of trade system will jump in where you are gonna buy stuff with your silver coins like you do with money today, then your planning is wrong.


Again, my point is that PM's should only be a part of your preps, not based on your preps. Prepping should be multifaceted.


----------



## inceptor

WhatTheHeck said:


> Thank you.
> 
> But, that reads more like an ad.
> And while he says silver will buy six months of food, has anyone actually, boots on the ground, done it?


Unfortunately there is not that much out there right now. Or at least they are buried pretty deep.


----------



## Maine-Marine

WhatTheHeck said:


> Historically speaking PMs have had value.
> 
> But I have yet to see anyone mention a real SHTF event.
> 
> Venezuela, I have yet to read any articles of anyone trading goods for PMs.
> Even if they were, would a 1oz gold coin buy $1205 worth of food? Due to supply, or the lack thereof, and high demand, I might trade a dozen eggs for a 16oz bar of gold.
> Might being the key word.


LOL.. first you have to have something people need... the people who have the food... THE GOVERNMENT are not interested in Gold or silver...


----------



## okey

anyone with any grain or legumes had better get lots of it buried within a few days of shtf, cause it will be taken at gunpoint by SOMEBODY. if it's a real, long term shtf, currency will be worthless. It might be a generation before gold and silver coins are worth anything, too. But I still stockpile them.  Once you've got a year's supply of food,meds, seeds, etc, there's no better place to put surplus cash, in small amounts, than such coins. Who says you have to use a 1 oz gold coin, anyway? they have `1/10th oz gold coins, you can cut them in half. In fact, you can cut in half a silver dime and it will still be accepted as 5% of an oz of silver. You dont buy a loaf of bread. Instead, you buy a bushel of grain, crack it and make porridge out of it.


----------



## Mx201er

I'm surprised by the lack of discussion about ammunition as a currency, aside from a couple brief mentions. I do have a modest amount of gold and silver, mostly as a hedge against inflation, but it seems to me that ammo would be one of the best forms of currency if shtf. Obviously food would be the best, but ammo has a much better 'value density' and shelf life.

It meets the criteria fairly well:
Fungible
Durable
Portability (depending on quantity)
Rare (when compared to number of people, and will be getting more rare each day)
Divisibility

The best part is that you can use it for hunting and protection as well. In a shtf scenario I would much rather have ammo cans full of ammo, than ammo cans full of gold and silver.


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## RJAMES

Not thinking much of the idea of storing a supply of fast food packets. I do think you need to maintain a cash supply in local currency , small bills. Every house in the U.S. should have at least a hundred in ones and fives. Stores don't operate now days without electricity and internet connectivity. Still a chance that a store would sell something for cash if you had it but the machines to utiilize cards are down as are the ATM's. 

Long term look at the gold and silver. For the things that occure every year , in fact almost every month somewhere on the planet, keep a couple hundred in small bills , again in local currency, would be more helpfull than mustard packets.


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