# If the shit hits the fan how long will it be before people band together and form set



## Flint'n'steel (Mar 29, 2017)

Also it we have any volunteers for the reinstated Pony Express?


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## Flint'n'steel (Mar 29, 2017)

The title is supposed to end with the word settlements in case it's been cut off which on my device it has.


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## Dubyagee (Nov 9, 2012)

Depends on the environment. Loose populated, similar minded people will coalesce faster then tightly packed hardheads.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Flint'n'steel said:


> Also it we have any volunteers for the reinstated Pony Express?


Here is a documentary on the EXACT topic of reinstating the Pony Express. Very educational, I suggest you watch it.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

So after SHTF You will start working together to provide protection and fill needs. And how is it you put any trust in these new found caring souls? If you plan on teaming up it had better be long before SHTF.
You really need long term almost life time relationships if you are putting you and your families life in their hands .
Small groups that have survived will in time bind with other small groups to form larger power bases . This will allow more common projects to get done and provide better security. Alone with that will begin the specializing in task by some.
Of course we have to define SHTF . SHTF at Katrina but it was not the end of the world and it did get worked out. It quickly turned in to a living hell for many . Those of us that just happen to be there had a different view than those 500 miles away. Those of us that have been in countries where it really hit the fan, often wonder if things could ever get normal again.
If you have figured out alone you are dead , make dam sure those you bond with are worth it. Know their soul before you put everything in their hands.


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## Flint'n'steel (Mar 29, 2017)

Sasquatch said:


> Flint'n'steel said:
> 
> 
> > Also it we have any volunteers for the reinstated Pony Express?
> ...


 What are you doing here bigfoot? Don't you need to be in the forest somewhere letting campers take blurry photos of you?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

> If the shit hits the fan how long will it be before people band together and form settlements


Some of us started years ago.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

This country has been thru cataclysmic events in its over 240 years of existence.
Never have we seen anything like certain "preppers" envision - total breakdown of law and order, roving gangs raping and pillaging, etc.

The ONLY thing I personally think would bring that about is nuclear war, which given North Korea and Iran may not be far fetched. 
But if nukes start raining down, the last thing I'll be worrying about is forming a militia group.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

have to have ponies for the pony express.. and they will be used for work instead.....


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> This country has been thru cataclysmic events in its over 240 years of existence.
> Never have we seen anything like certain "preppers" envision - total breakdown of law and order, roving gangs raping and pillaging, etc.
> 
> The ONLY thing I personally think would bring that about is nuclear war, which given North Korea and Iran may not be far fetched.
> But if nukes start raining down, the last thing I'll be worrying about is forming a militia group.


Sorry, but that mindset is so old school. Our own government studies have shown that 1-3 EMP weapons exploded high in the atmosphere would result in 90% of the population of the US dead within a year or so. In my book, that would mean chaos. A cyber attack on our grid, by folks like North Korea or Iran, who already have the access & capability, would not be as extreme but would be cataclysmic all the same. Point being, our entire society is dependent on electricity & communication. Without those, fuel isn't pumped & transportation quickly stops. Imagine a major city with no food delivery for weeks. To destroy a society, one no longer has to pound it into submission. Can do more damage with a few keystrokes. That is the new world we live in. I sure hope our leaders plan properly if we proceed with a preemptive strike on North Korea.

To the original point of the thread, all my prepping is based upon building a small community. I don't think it possible to survive long term without one.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

******* said:


> Sorry, but that mindset is so old school. Our own government studies have shown that 1-3 EMP weapons exploded high in the atmosphere would result in 90% of the population of the US dead within a year or so. In my book, that would mean chaos. A cyber attack on our grid, by folks like North Korea or Iran, who already have the access & capability, would not be as extreme but would be cataclysmic all the same. Point being, our entire society is dependent on electricity & communication. Without those, fuel isn't pumped & transportation quickly stops. Imagine a major city with no food delivery for weeks. To destroy a society, one no longer has to pound it into submission. Can do more damage with a few keystrokes. That is the new world we live in. I sure hope our leaders plan properly if we proceed with a preemptive strike on North Korea.
> 
> To the original point of the thread, all my prepping is based upon building a small community. I don't think it possible to survive long term without one.


And several years ago the computers were going to crash and bring about chaos.
And there was gas rationing.
And riots all over the United States during the sixties. 
And threats of nuclear war with Russia.
And the Cuban missile crisis.
Etc.
Etc.

Not going to say it can't happen, but as I drive cross country, while I may see little pockets of what the media claim is widespread, I don't see the world around me looking significantly different than the last 50 or so years off the top of my head. 
So don't be so critical of the old school thinking, especially from someone who lived through several of those events. Too many people fantasize about this bold new adventure not realizing the truth of it. I think video games and TV has glamorized the apocalyptic world to the point the basement dwellers find the idea more than mildly erotic. 
Now, will I continue Prepping? Of course. But I'm going to bear in mind that the basic ideas we as real preppers aspire to are an old school way of thinking and doing.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> have to have ponies for the pony express.. and they will be used for work instead.....


Or food.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

Is this another Wild One rehash? Yall are suspect...

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> This country has been thru cataclysmic events in its over 240 years of existence.
> Never have we seen anything like certain "preppers" envision - total breakdown of law and order, roving gangs raping and pillaging, etc.
> 
> The ONLY thing I personally think would bring that about is nuclear war, which given North Korea and Iran may not be far fetched.
> But if nukes start raining down, the last thing I'll be worrying about is forming a militia group.


 Days of rage, Detroit burning, Watts riots ect all local events but just as real SHTF for those in the middle of it.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> Or food.


Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Whinnyburgers!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

******* said:


> Sorry, but that mindset is so old school. Our own government studies have shown that 1-3 EMP weapons exploded high in the atmosphere would result in 90% of the population of the US dead within a year or so. In my book, that would mean chaos. A cyber attack on our grid, by folks like North Korea or Iran, who already have the access & capability, would not be as extreme but would be cataclysmic all the same. Point being, our entire society is dependent on electricity & communication. Without those, fuel isn't pumped & transportation quickly stops. Imagine a major city with no food delivery for weeks. To destroy a society, one no longer has to pound it into submission. Can do more damage with a few keystrokes. That is the new world we live in. I sure hope our leaders plan properly if we proceed with a preemptive strike on North Korea.
> 
> To the original point of the thread, all my prepping is based upon building a small community. I don't think it possible to survive long term without one.


Do you REALLY think that another country would explode a nuclear warhead 300 miles above Kansas (that is what it would take for an EMP to affect the whole US) without a MASSIVE nuclear ICBM response by the United States? At that point, joining a "militia" or "settlement" would be so far down my priority list as to be a mere footnote.

We have crops in the ground, we have livestock, we can get by without electricity. We live on a dead end dirt road 6 miles outside a one stop light town. 
I'm not worried by an event of such low probability.

Now, city folks, and those in suburbia will most likely be in for the proverbial screwing over if the stock market really crashes, or groups of muslim terrorists perform coordinated strikes.


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## Flint'n'steel (Mar 29, 2017)

Sasquatch said:


> ND_ponyexpress_ said:
> 
> 
> > have to have ponies for the pony express.. and they will be used for work instead.....
> ...


 Is there anything a squatch wont eat?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Days of rage, Detroit burning, Watts riots ect all local events but just as real SHTF for those in the middle of it.


That's why we live at the corner of 40th and Plum.

40 miles out, plum in the middle of nowhere. :vs_bananasplit:


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## Sir Publius (Nov 5, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Do you REALLY think that another country would explode a nuclear warhead 300 miles above Kansas (that is what it would take for an EMP to affect the whole US) without a MASSIVE nuclear ICBM response by the United States? At that point, joining a "militia" or "settlement" would be so far down my priority list as to be a mere footnote.
> 
> We have crops in the ground, we have livestock, we can get by without electricity. We live on a dead end dirt road 6 miles outside a one stop light town.
> I'm not worried by an event of such low probability.
> ...


Saying that the ONLY way to affect the U.S. with an EMP is detonating a nuclear bomb 300 miles above Kansas shows a misunderstanding, or incomplete understanding of EMP in its various forms. We could have a NATURAL EMP via a coronal mass ejection that could collapse power grids not just in the whole of the U.S., but around the world. It may not fry computers, phones, cars etc...but it would fry the power grid and collapse society, rendering most of those other things a moot point after a while. One could also through more crude means set off an EMP over the U.S., not as high, say over the east coast, and still collapse the grid. Just saying. Saying your scenario is the ONLY way for it to happen...I disagree.

Also, its great that you have livestock and crops in the ground. When massive population centers however, who don't, leave the concrete jungle, and potentially gangs of dozens or hundred of people sweep through the countryside, starving and desperate...depending on where you live, at that point, you might not be as safe as you thought you were. Just some food for thought.

Personally I think we are at a very very unique time in history. Electricity is no longer a convenience. It has become a necessity, for most Western powers that is. Maybe not everyone. Losing it would not mean simply going back to the 1800's. People in the 1800's after all knew how to be people of he 1800's. People today, most, don't. We aren't SET UP for that anymore. I don't think people appreciate how delicate a system we have that has been created. The more refined it gets, the more complex, the more we are set up for the domino's to fall, like never before, because of that dependency. Just my opinion.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I don't see as rosy a picture as some here. War? Maybe so. Terror attacks? Most assuredly. Economic collapse? Likely. That crazy ass bastard in North Korea? Real problem. Do I want to keep living the way I do in relative comfort and ease? Hell yes. Do I want to play army, struggle to survive, and possibly die an ugly death, or live like they did in the 1800's? That would be no. I am simply prepared, Better then most on this planet I would say, to make the best of it should SHTF become a reality. 

I like my AC, my cold beer, BBQ, and football on the weekends. I have no delusions of grandeur if it ever comes down to SHTF. I keep my eyes on it, I prepare for it realistically and as best I can with what I have. I live my life and enjoy.

As to the OP's question? Best you have a group in place before things get ugly. Not always feasible but best.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Prepared One said:


> I don't see as rosy a picture as some here. War? Maybe so. Terror attacks? Most assuredly. Economic collapse? Likely. That crazy ass bastard in North Korea? Real problem. Do I want to keep living the way I do in relative comfort and ease? Hell yes. Do I want to play army, struggle to survive, and possibly die an ugly death, or live like they did in the 1800's? That would be no. I am simply prepared, Better then most on this planet I would say, to make the best of it should SHTF become a reality.
> 
> I like my AC, my cold beer, BBQ, and football on the weekends. I have no delusions of grandeur if it ever comes down to SHTF. I keep my eyes on it, I prepare for it realistically and as best I can with what I have. I live my life and enjoy.
> 
> As to the OP's question? Best you have a group in place before things get ugly. Not always feasible but best.


Hmmm .... are we talking the NFL kind of football or lingerie football?


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> Hmmm .... are we talking the NFL kind of football or lingerie football?


You mean....there is such a thing as lingerie football???? Wait! We are talking about WOMEN in lingerie playing football, right? :devil:


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## Flint'n'steel (Mar 29, 2017)

Well not to ruin anyone's fantasy of being the lone wanderer but ten or twenty years post shtf most people will have either figured out how to survive or died off. And people are pack animals. They will band together. They'll eventually figure out farming and once they do they will begin to rebuild a sort of society. All human expansion was based on the food supply. Once there is a more or less steady supply of food people will began to migrate and spread. Not saying it will happen in our lifetimes but it will happen.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Ahh the world of pretend... 

I do not like green eggs and ham.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Coastie dad said:


> So don't be so critical of the old school thinking, especially from someone who lived through several of those events. Too many people fantasize about this bold new adventure not realizing the truth of it. I think video games and TV has glamorized the apocalyptic world to the point the basement dwellers find the idea more than mildly erotic.
> Now, will I continue Prepping? Of course. But I'm going to bear in mind that the basic ideas we as real preppers aspire to are an old school way of thinking and doing.


Hey I'm old school myself. I grew up expecting a nuclear war & in school we had the drop & cover drills if you saw a bright flash of light. I was a Minuteman Missile Combat Crew Commander in the early 80s, where I was trained to fight the old war where you expended hundreds or thousands of nuclear weapons to beat down your opponent. I served in an underground launch control center which hung from the ceiling of the concrete capsule by four huge shock absorbers, so that we might survive near misses in an all out exchange. But even then, prior to personal computers, prior to smart phones, prior to the internet, and prior to everything controlled by computers, we had a fusing option called a high altitude fusing burst, where our nuclear warhead would explode high up in the atmosphere... not on the ground or a few thousand feet off the ground. You see, even way back then the war planners found out an extra "benefit" of a nuclear explosion was the EMP and they had determined that such a high altitude explosion would do great harm to communications & other electronics.

Nowadays, our society's complete dependence on the computer has only made us more vulnerable to such an EMP attack, or like stated a similar solar event. When our own government states 90% would die, that ought to tell you something about how vulnerable we are to just such a few weapons. But that is not the only change because the weapons themselves have changed. Now we have super EMP weapons that are designed not for blast damage but to generate EMP and they can make a whole lot more. One of the last North Korean underground detonations was considered a failure because it was not as large an explosion as expected. However, if they were testing an EMP device, that would be the expected result.

Times change & the military always has to adjust to the new world... to new technology & new strategy. The next war will not be fought like WWII. The nuclear exchange we planned for back in the 60s, 70s & 80s is still possible but no longer necessary. That is what I mean by old school.



rice paddy daddy said:


> Do you REALLY think that another country would explode a nuclear warhead 300 miles above Kansas (that is what it would take for an EMP to affect the whole US) without a MASSIVE nuclear ICBM response by the United States?


In the past, our nuclear deterrence kept us safe all these years based upon MAD... mutually assured destruction. Each power's ability to destroy the other kept the weapons in check. Why would Russia or China attack if we could still destroy them? What is different now, and why I think these times are so dangerous, is that we have folks that would attack us & could care less what happened to their own country. You think that crazy fat man in North Korea cares what happens to his citizens? You think those religious zealots in the middle east care if they or their people die? MAD does not work against them. Once again, thinking retaliation would keep them from attacking is old school, in my book.

If we conduct a preemptive strike on North Korea, be it nuclear or not, do you think they would hesitate to retaliate... if possible? Can we stop their cyber units from unleashing an attack? I sure hope so. Does one of their satellites orbiting over the US has an EMP weapon in it? If so, I assume we have plans to stop or destroy it. Problem is, if we are not 100% things could quickly go very bad. If ISIS gets a dirty bomb or pays to get access to our grid, you think a massive nuclear attack on them would keep them from using their weapons? Where do you want us to target? What about the fallout impacting us & our allies?


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## Flint'n'steel (Mar 29, 2017)

******* said:


> Coastie dad said:
> 
> 
> > So don't be so critical of the old school thinking, especially from someone who lived through several of those events. Too many people fantasize about this bold new adventure not realizing the truth of it. I think video games and TV has glamorized the apocalyptic world to the point the basement dwellers find the idea more than mildly erotic.
> ...


 North Korea has sattelites? I did not know that.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Sir Publius said:


> Also, its great that you have livestock and crops in the ground. When massive population centers however, who don't, leave the concrete jungle, and potentially gangs of dozens or hundred of people sweep through the countryside, starving and desperate...depending on where you live, at that point, you might not be as safe as you thought you were. Just some food for thought.


How are they going to get here? It's a long walk from the city, and with no gasoline to fuel vehicles, "they" will have to walk. And it would be a long, long walk for them.
But you are quite correct on how the MAJORITY of Americans have become dependent upon electricity and modern inventions. Those will be dead in the first few months. The cities will become hells of putrefying, stinking flesh.
But again, I'm not worried. Wife and I are of the generation that were birthed and raised by men and women who went through the Great Depression and WW2. We are they type who purchase and use things from Lehmans catalog. https://www.lehmans.com/


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> How are they going to get here? It's a long walk from the city, and with no gasoline to fuel vehicles, "they" will have to walk. And it would be a long, long walk for them.


Plus I believe even if they are driving, that the suburbs will very quickly set up barriers to prevent this mass exodus from destroying their own communities. I just don't think folks will be able to drive or walk wherever they wish after a SHTF event.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

As an earthquake , blizzard, forest fire , tornado is happening people help when where they can as it is ongoing. After the immediate danger is passed people will travel to your area to help their friends and others. Tornado did damage near Kansas City 3 weekends ago and for several days after and for every weekend after individuals have volunteered to help cleanup debris and repair roofs. 

Electrical grid down many folks will initially help out each other assuming it will just be a day or two . Weeks into it especially if it is much of the country things will change. 

For a longer term power outage, nuclear war, conventional war or economic collapse many small communities / neighborhoods will try and pull together to help each other out it is what humans have done for thousands of years in small family/ tribes / nation states . It is what they will do again it may or may not work just saying that is what they will do as it is human nature. Read all the fantasy books about end of the world as we know it and there is always a group of bad guys. You defeat a group of bad guys with a group of good guys. 

Starts with one neighbor checking on anther and grows from there. Just in America you see since before we were a nation a home guard/ militia / posse structure that is stil in place in many areas of the country. No reason not to think this will not continue. Volunteer fire departments and ambulance companies will do what they can and then take on more recruits as the crises goes on in many areas of the country. Most people will pitch in were and when they can. 

Should contact by normal phone, satellite phone , internet , radio be down to the rest of the country - no National or State government still functioning then folks will start picking themselves and families up then reaching out and working with neighbors to help each other out. If the existing town , township , county government is not functioning then they will reestablish it. 

After Katrina there were horrible events - there were also many bass fisherman from northern Louisiana or from East Texas that took their private boats down and pulled people from roofs. It was not a coordinated effort , was not pretty or official but those guys saved lives. For all the talk about New Orleans you do not hear much about the rest of the effected area where a lot of people helped each other out. Many homes were rebuilt by folks going down for a week or two and helping out. I took a camper down to a family to use prior to FEMA getting anything moved to the area . Spent a couple days getting small water system set up for a neighborhood and working on some roof repairs. They did not sit around and wait for the government to do anything they started where they could and worked from where they where. 

There are many faith based disaster relief groups, Red Cross and veterans groups if anyone is interested in that type of prepping and helping others communities out.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

******* said:


> Plus I believe even if they are driving, that the suburbs will very quickly set up barriers to prevent this mass exodus from destroying their own communities. I just don't think folks will be able to drive or walk wherever they wish after a SHTF event.


Additionally, lets say these folks make it out of the city/burbs out to where there is a two lane country road. OK, now what. Keep going till you run out of gas? Turn off at an even smaller road? Then what? Sooner or later (sooner) you they are going to get to a place with a roadblock, and country folk with guns who (at best, if they are good people) will just order the city peeps to turn around and go back the other way. At worst? Bad things, man... bad things.

I figure as long as it isn't an EMP type event where all cars newer than the 1970's flat out die, you have 3 days TOPS to get to wherever it is you are going.

If you choose to shelter in place, then you have 3 days max to get ready to defend your island.

If you choose to bug out, you have 3 days max to get to where you are going and get set up.

Any significant disruption that is on a national scale will turn ugly FAST... much faster than most would think.

IMHO.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Flint'n'steel said:


> North Korea has sattelites? I did not know that.


NK has starved the citizens to fund their weapon building. They have manufactured weapons and copies of others weapon for export all over the world to fund their misdeeds. Bill Clinton the scumbag. Gave them food and oil to get by on. Of course the money was not his it was the taxpayers. He claimed they would stop their Nuke program if we did. What Clinton did was then stop all monitoring for them and allowed them to spend like crazy on it. 
Traders like Clinton and Obama have provided them with technology they needed to build their systems. All in the name of thier new world order.
NK indoctrination system makes Hitler look like a saint.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Flint'n'steel said:


> North Korea has sattelites? I did not know that.


Two of them, and they cross the US from the south... the opposite direction of a normal nuclear attack. We have basically no sensors looking that direction.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

It will depend on the people--


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## Gaffer57 (Jun 20, 2013)

In the event of a major SHTF the only ones who survive long term will be those who can work within a community. Ever since the dawn of civilization people have organized themselves together for mutual protection, production and diversification of skills. We need doctors, mechanics, teachers, technicians, farmers, etc. in order to not only survive but thrive. America would never have been anything other than a primitive backwater if the vast majority of its citizens had remained self-reliant but isolated subsistence farmers.


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