# Check your ammo



## Megamom134 (Jan 30, 2021)

I copied this from another group because I think it is important. "For all of you out buying ammo? The two pictures are a recent purchase at a walmart. After purchasing the ammo it was noticed that the neck was cracked on one of the shell casings. So every round was inspected and 13 out of 60 of the shells had cracked necks. This isnt walmarts fault. This is the fault of the new manufacturer of remington ammo since post bankruptcy purchase. Vista outdoors purchased Remington ammunition post bankruptcy and seems to have no quailty control. Please check your ammo before purchasing. A cracked shell casing will cause the firearm to exploded and cause severe injury..even death. Just wanted to pass along this info. A lot of first time gun buyers out there and dont know what a danger this is! Please inspect your ammo!"


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Thanks for the heads up!
I've not seen any Remy ammo on the shelf since they came back from bankruptcy, but I'll keep this in mind and pass it along.

I am a bit skeptical that so many necks cracked in supposedly first load brass, and got passed QC. But it's better to be safe and check.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

*so many necks cracked*

I think this is simply mass shipping from cartridge companies and suppliers. Let's suppose that a company runs off a segment of 10,000 brass cartridge cases. Considering that machines now run the blanks through mechanical dies, there is probably few individual checks for perfection.

I used to buy empty brass cases in lots of 1,000 pieces. On average I would find 3 to 5 split cases--an amount I simply tossed and *never contacted* the supplier to complain. After all, I am just a target shooter not a government agent.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> *so many necks cracked*
> 
> I think this is simply mass shipping from cartridge companies and suppliers. Let's suppose that a company runs off a segment of 10,000 brass cartridge cases. Considering that machines now run the blanks through mechanical dies, there is probably few individual checks for perfection.
> 
> I used to buy empty brass cases in lots of 1,000 pieces. On average I would find 3 to 5 split cases--an amount I simply tossed and *never contacted* the supplier to complain. After all, I am just a target shooter not a government agent.


You bought fired brass.
These are new.
It is unacceptable to consider this "mass shipping from cartridge companies and suppliers", as numerous other companies don't have this failure rate. When dealing with an explosive product, there is ZERO excuse for this many to make it out to the public.
Fired brass served its purpose once, and it's then up to the reloader to do their own QC. Cartridges from new brass should NOT do this, and should never leave the factory in such condition.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Megamom134 said:


> I copied this from another group because I think it is important. "For all of you out buying ammo? The two pictures are a recent purchase at a walmart. After purchasing the ammo it was noticed that the neck was cracked on one of the shell casings. So every round was inspected and 13 out of 60 of the shells had cracked necks. This isnt walmarts fault. This is the fault of the new manufacturer of remington ammo since post bankruptcy purchase. Vista outdoors purchased Remington ammunition post bankruptcy and seems to have no quailty control. Please check your ammo before purchasing. A cracked shell casing will cause the firearm to exploded and cause severe injury..even death. Just wanted to pass along this info. A lot of first time gun buyers out there and dont know what a danger this is! Please inspect your ammo!"
> View attachment 113712
> View attachment 113713


There is little danger of the gun exploding. the bulk of the obturation is between the neck and shoulder. 99% of the neck is closed off, balance is between the shoulder and case body.
The crack renders the case useless for reloading though.
From the picture it appears there was no annealing, usually there is no tumbling after annealing.
Another thing, splitting does not occur as the projectile is loaded in, it may take months for the stress to crack the case.
Cases during the manufacture are annealed several times in the draw process of the cases, depending on how much brass is moved in the process. the cases could have been pickled to remove the annealing color, but I doubt it.
This ammo is fine to shoot, just make sure the bullet has not moved down into the case.
You will also have to watch for the bullet walking in the mag when firing.
All bottlenecked cases are or should be annealed as the final operation before loading.
Brass workhardens as its shape is changed, normally the neck is annealed to eliminate stress cracks as shown here.
The bad side is the ammo is useless for storage.
In much of the LC 5.56 brass they carry the anneal too far down the case, you can't miss the color change.
I once got a lot of 30/40 Kraig ammo, 100% of the necks were cracked, shot it anyways, no problems.
In the past I have made dies for transfer presses for 50 BMG, all the way down to progressive dies for POP RIVET bodies.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> You bought fired brass.
> These are new.
> It is unacceptable to consider this "mass shipping from cartridge companies and suppliers", as numerous other companies don't have this failure rate. When dealing with an explosive product, there is ZERO excuse for this many to make it out to the public.
> Fired brass served its purpose once, and it's then up to the reloader to do their own QC. Cartridges from new brass should NOT do this, and should never leave the factory in such condition.


As I said in my posting, it takes time for the cracks to appear,
could have been weeks or months after leaving the factory, seen it before.
Obviously no one did a Brinell test on the case/neck prior to loading.
Visual inspection will NOT show anything pending as in a crack.
When I professionally reloaded back in the late 60s, I used a gas fired motorized conveyor to anneal cases for reloading.

You can take my posting either as fact or discard them as outright wrong, and me being just an arrogant ass.
I don't care in either way, at least there are no knives in my postings.
I now only post when I feel the subject needs practical information, not just amature speculation. If there is an objection to my opinions, I will not post
at all.
Mods can ban me at anytime, I don't care.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> As I said in my posting, it takes time for the cracks to appear,
> could have been weeks or months after leaving the factory, seen it before.
> Obviously no one did a Brinell test on the case/neck prior to loading.
> Visual inspection will NOT show anything pending as in a crack.
> ...


Nobody has questioned the voracity of what you posted.
Your insight is appreciated.
Why the animosity? Why on earth would you get banned?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Remington ammo has been a crap shoot for years. Most there 22lr is a bang, pop, BANG and is some of the most inaccurate inconsistent junk on the market. Actually cleaned out my whole stock pile and sold the Remington garbage off.

Have a box of 44mag ammo with 4 out of 25 that didn't fire. Primer has a nice dent but nothing. Kind of the reason I started reloading. At least I KNOW what and how my ammo is loaded. Why spend big bucks and just get junk??

Thanks for sharing, good info.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Nobody has questioned the voracity of what you posted.
> Your insight is appreciated.
> Why the animosity? Why on earth would you get banned?


I say stuff like that if I’ve been drinking a lot.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

KUSA said:


> I say stuff like that if I’ve been drinking a lot.


I don't drink and do not do drugs of any sort other than what is prescribed.
I have my reasons for posting what I said, leave it at that.
If I feel like it, I will reiterate it in another posting if I do post.
I don't like having sentences removed from postings, I assume they are not PC.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> I don't drink and do not do drugs of any sort other than what is prescribed.
> I have my reasons for posting what I said, leave it at that.
> If I feel like it, I will reiterate it in another posting if I do post.
> I don't like having sentences removed from postings, I assume they are not PC.


Loosen up bro. You are among friends here.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> I don't like having sentences removed from postings, I assume they are not PC.


Can you point to the post you believe was edited?
I checked the posts you've made in this thread, and the only editors have been from your account.
Another thread, perhaps?

If you do believe a mod is altering your posts and you'd like to know why, please send a PM and we can investigate.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Can you point to the post you believe was edited?
> I checked the posts you've made in this thread, and the only editors have been from your account.
> Another thread, perhaps?
> 
> If you do believe a mod is altering your posts and you'd like to know why, please send a PM and we can investigate.


You remove my sentences. I even edit your edits and you edit it back.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> As I said in my posting, it takes time for the cracks to appear,
> could have been weeks or months after leaving the factory, seen it before.
> Obviously no one did a Brinell test on the case/neck prior to loading.
> Visual inspection will NOT show anything pending as in a crack.
> ...


i, for one, find your posts most informative.
You have been in the firearm business a long time, and have a wealth of knowledge to share.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

KUSA said:


> You remove my sentences. I even edit your edits and you edit it back.


I did indeed do that.
Certain things aren't permitted, and misrepresenting a mod's actions will be corrected so as to not misunderstand said actions.

But we don't wonton edit posts unless there's a rule violation in play. Insofar as SOCOM's posts in this thread, I cannot see that any editing has been done by a mod.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Nothing was deleted in this thread.
It happened back a few months.
Two entire posting were deleted, a couple others edited, by admin.
I do not remember what the nature of the post's were or dates.
It has happened, and at times threatened with banning, as I said, do it.
Don't waste your time on it, I do not need an explanation.
I really don't think I post anything offensive,
save the talk about the commie crud north of the border.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

*You bought fired brass. These are new.*

Yes, Kauboy, I know, I was there. What I found when firing lots of a thousand and then some, that a brass case that actually looked "smoked" on one complete side might last for dozens of full-charge rounds.

The first time I tried "_scolded, 1/2 side flat, charged brass_" I was told that I would be lucky to get 3 or 4 loaded rounds before everything split. Well, this was the age of what we called "combat shooting." We would find full size pictures of criminals or businessmen and sometimes we would paste the picture of a gun on some of their hands, and sometimes nothing at all. Some guys would get so trigger-happy they would fire without checking for "weapons." Naturally, some loud-mouthed guys would claim "bare-hand is as good as a weapon." Then the administrators would offer them fifth place or even worse.

It was common to find brass all over everything. Some guys thought "virgin brass" was more accurate and other guys (like me) said that careful handloading would make dinged brass look as tight as the new.

Oh, sometimes you had to carefully and slowly settle the die on some really squirelly brass, then lightly oil the brass again, rotate it 180 degrees and then slide the die carefully down once more. Now, I'm sure younger guys might sneer at anything shot in someone else's firearm, but most of our groups settled down to "five touching and one outside." Early in the game the guys were firing standard Colt 1911 automatics. Of course, one rich kid had a special 1911 built and so ends the tale. From that moment it was "the gun" that provided the groups, not the shooter.

I just checked, and my 1911 is a Kimber--it has been a while, and I forgot, honest. It has a very faint "mar" near the muzzle that looks like a "polished hair" to me, that's all the dings I did on my little 1911. I often took that little 1911 with me, but my friends never let me shoot it for 'serious.' There's a spooky admonition that some guys carry, that being, if he has been beaten by one 3-inch 'girlie' little .45 ACP, chances are another one will beat him, too. Heck, some of these old guys won't shoot their wife's gun if theirs malfunctions, even if it means they won't compete.

My Kimber is 99% tight, being that if I place the unloaded pistol to my ear and shake it, it will make a tiny rattle. Supposedly the old hands claim that a pistol must be a tad loose so the pistol cycles smoothly. However, there are just as many guys with +5,000 rounds through a horribly loose firearm, and they usually place at the top. However, you cannot convince a sore loser!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Yes, Kauboy, I know, I was there.


You may have been there, but I'm not sure you're here...
You seem to have missed the point of my post, and went off on a tangent. Fired brass will have already been stressed. Properly treated new brass should NOT have this problem.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Loading virgin brass is not a problem concerning stresses.
Once fired, the internal pressure causes the brass to move towards the mouth or neck.
In the correct sizing of say, 38 Special cases, the cases are run through a resizing die first,
Then, if done correctly, a neck sizing die is used for the first 1/8 of an inch,
that is for a place to seat the bullet properly in the case.
Then the bullet is seated and crimped into place.
Each one of these actions work harden the brass,
without annealing you will usually get about 3 loading before cracks start showing.
This is a rough estimate, life may vary by case manufacture, powder charge and other factors.
When you start loosing resistance inserting primers, time to six the case.
That looseness is an indicator of the brass moving forward, a precursor to a split or case separation.
The condition is critical in auto cases that HS on the mouth of the case.
Cases need to be trimmed to a correct length or the gun will not go into battery.
This trimming is done after sizing. It is best to anneal autoloader cases.
They go through the same sizing process as the rimmed cases, but have to contend with OAL.

At one time back in the late 60s I reloaded from 5,000 to 10,000 rounds a month for different police dept. training. All cases were annealed in the process.
They were 38 special rounds, no one had change to auto's at that time.
It was the changeover to 9MM that was one of the reasons I stopped commercial loading.
The second reason was I was doing a lot of flying, which was more fun than in front of a press.
Smith & Wesson 9MM auto's were a big thing, Mod 39-2 in particular.
Hell, I carried a Mod. 66 .357 Smith right up to 1998, then I carried a Smith 639.

I loaded with two automated Star presses.
Converted one to 9MM PARA. for my personal use.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

*Fired brass will have already been stressed.* 

I agree, no question about it. However we were practicing for time and accuracy in that era. In most cases guys just left the brass fall where it may so another contestant would be ready to compete. Then again, I never really saw "virgin brass" at these contests. 

Now, I did buy some brand new virgin brass--once. Yikes, some of it was out of round, the mouths were a tad longer than spec, and I had to bevel the inside and the outside of these mouths, all with a little hand held device. Yeah, yeah, I know. I saw those "newer" lathe devices. But I wanted to shoot and I was glad I was still flush enough to use what I had on the shelf. After all, I was young and in my 20s and could not really afford 8-pound cannisters of the "premium" stuff.


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## Elimotorx (Sep 3, 2021)

Megamom134 said:


> I copied this from another group because I think it is important. "For all of you out buying ammo? The two pictures are a recent purchase at a walmart. After purchasing the ammo it was noticed that the neck was cracked on one of the shell casings. So every round was inspected and 13 out of 60 of the shells had cracked necks. This isnt walmarts fault. This is the fault of the new manufacturer of remington ammo since post bankruptcy purchase. Vista outdoors purchased Remington ammunition post bankruptcy and seems to have no quailty control. Please check your ammo before purchasing. A cracked shell casing will cause the firearm to exploded and cause severe injury..even death. Just wanted to pass along this info. A lot of first time gun buyers out there and dont know what a danger this is! Please inspect your ammo!"
> View attachment 113712
> View attachment 113713


This is a 45 round pulled right out of a brand new box. Stay safe everyone inspect your ammo before you shoot.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Elimotorx said:


> This is a 45 round pulled right out of a brand new box. Stay safe everyone inspect your ammo before you shoot.
> View attachment 113924


You got yourself a free training round!


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## Garand (11 mo ago)

Just one of the reasons that I reload 95% of the 15 calibers I shoot. For me factory ammo comes only in .22LR & 12 gauge. And some of that is sketchy at times.


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## Davehb (7 mo ago)

I’ll add to this post.
These were locking in the riflings before fully in the chamber.
if had a heavy recoil spring you/I would have never known it.

I returned them where I got them. 
They refunded. I left the one in the barrel so they could get it out themselves and see how bad they were locking up in the chamber. 
He said they had sold a bunch and I was first one to bring any back. Guessing others, are just storing them, or don’t know any better. 🤷🏼‍♂️
















I returned them where I got them. 
They refunded. I left the one in the barrel so they could get it out themselves and see how bad they were locking up in the chamber. 
He said they had sold a bunch and I was first one to bring any back. Guessing others, are just storing them, or don’t know any better. 🤷🏼‍♂️


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