# When the SHTF will you be a bandit,neutral,or savior?



## NoahGoldFox (Sep 3, 2013)

Like when the SHTF and its the apocalypse, will you be a bandit (kills everyone on site) a neutral (avoids people unless they seem nice and only kill bandits that go after you) or a savior? (kills ALL bandits,gives food to survivors, helps everyone, just do as much as you can to help everyone). i will probably be a neutral, il stay in a safehouse most of the time and i will stay away from people unless im CERTAIN there nice.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

I plan on being a survivor, don't know where that fits in your descriptions? Probably a little of all to do it though.


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## Eternal_Prepper (Nov 12, 2013)

I like to think I would try to be helpful to those that needed help. Just because the worlds had gone to s**t doesn't mean that we have to turn our back on humanity. There will always be good people out there that will help others in need.

Eternal_Prepper :mrgreen:


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## Vamppire (Oct 21, 2013)

Silverbullet said:


> I will be whatever I need to be to keep my family safe and fed.


Same goes for me here


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

All of the above.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Depends on the situation, probably a bit of all of them. Nothing will be as clearly defined in practice as it is in your mind before everything goes to hell.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

Silverbullet said:


> I will be whatever I need to be to keep my family safe and fed.


Same here.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

ekim said:


> I plan on being a survivor, don't know where that fits in your descriptions? Probably a little of all to do it though.


That's the first thing that came to my mind too. A survivor. I don't want to be a bandit unless it's taking from those that obviously took from others. In turn I'll likely put bullets into them, that being the main objective to keep them from doing it again. Unless there more than I can handle. I will probably stay neutral in many affairs. Like thugs killing thugs for instance. We're better off without them. I may be a savior, but I'm no fool either and will not get involved in a loosing fight. I'll do what I can, what I know to be right and what will keep me alive.


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## Stevenc90 (Sep 16, 2013)

I will be the guy you don't see .. get to close and you will be bird feed...


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## Doomsday (Jun 25, 2013)

Whatever it takes to take care of me and mine!


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

I think the decisions and preps you make today will determine what you will become after the SHTF.


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## Titan6 (May 19, 2013)

I plan on helping my community ..If things get to bad and out of control then bug out and hit the cabin...


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Like the tale of the ant and the grasshopper, hope not to see folks in dire need. My preps allow for my family only. I've raised my daughter to have compassion, not sure if I could refuse someone help and have her not look at me the same way as before. Guess I'm a softie, but when small children are involved it makes it really tough for me to be the real hardass.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

I see myself as a neutral. Protect me and mine, let people wipe themselves out (thugs,gangsters,thieves)

Then after a while, help where I can. 

Unfortunately, I can't stay hunkered in for a long time. I see myself as security. Every time my dogs bark, I HAVE to look. My dogs do NOT bark at the wind. They bark because something is there. So for my piece of mind, if SHTF and it gets crazy, I'll be the one doing rounds around my and my grammas house. I just couldn't sleep at all knowing that the dogs barked and I ignored it. I'm not machismo at all, and am actually a tad cautious at bumps in the night, but that doesn't stop me from investigating. 

But I think it all depends on what scenario and events take place. I don't think anyone can say with any amount of certainty what they will do without a specific scenario. I know if I were in a situation with 100+ people mobbing my street/house, I would do it differently than 10+ people. I would be neutral with 10+ versus 100+. 100+, I'd shoot to kill


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

neutral due to water,food and meds being limited and resupply is not guaranteed.... ammo is plentiful so if bad guys are in range, the temptation will be hard to resist.


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## nurseholly (Oct 7, 2013)

As a nurse one would expect me to be the savior. However, I'm a damn good shot and have witnessed death enough that I would do anything it took to keep my family safe and fed.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Can I be a Wizard?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I'll go along with Stevenc90. I'll be in hiding unless..


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Stevenc90 said:


> I will be the guy you don't see .. get to close and you will be bird feed...


That will only work so long if you have friends / family!


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## Mic (Jul 19, 2012)

I think neutral for the most part. Depending on the scenario, I envision that in most situations where things go crazy, we won't really know when help or normalcy is right around the corner.
So, while I may want to help people, I won't know that the food I share with them today will not come from my kids mouth 2, 3, or 4 weeks from then. 

I would feel crappy about denying somebody that I wanted to help food/water they really needed and wind up with plenty of excess when normalcy returns. But that would be nothing compared to my kids going hungry and suffering because I miscalculated and figured we'd have more than enough.

As far as protecting others.....if I am pretty certain I can do so without risking me or mine, I will likely help others who I believe deserve it.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

kevincali said:


> I see myself as a neutral. Protect me and mine, let people wipe themselves out (thugs,gangsters,thieves)
> 
> Then after a while, help where I can.
> 
> ...


Dogs like that are a treasure, mine, the little rat terrier, only barks at folks coming on to our property, he knows the boundaries. He won't even step off the curb when outside if someone walks by. Love that little guy to death, might bring him along instead of the wife.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

1skrewsloose said:


> Dogs like that are a treasure, mine, the little rat terrier, only barks at folks coming on to our property, he knows the boundaries. He won't even step off the curb when outside if someone walks by. Love that little guy to death, might bring him along instead of the wife.


Yeah my dogs are something else. It's tough feeding the 2, but without them, who knows what I'd have missed. They DO bark at anything that goes in front of or back of the house. Even neighbors kids. I keep telling the kids to just go up to the fence and let the dogs sniff them. A couple of times of doing that, and the dogs will know them. That way it's a couple less times I have to look out the window lol. But I guess a 100# shepherd and a husky/wolf/coyote mutt is kind of intimidating.

Now to teach the puppy not to chew on everything and dig everywhere haha


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Had the terrier before getting into the prepper mode, next I think will be a gr. shepard. Have to think back on the terminator thing. No small wonder their man's best friend!!!


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## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

With the 3 options you gave, I would prefer being neutral as long as possible. I would rather not be the one who takes a life and hope I can provide without having to resort to stealing, but if the situation is bad enough I will do what needs to be done to help my family/group to survive. Before anyone thinks that I am not capable of pulling the trigger, I have been trained in using deadly force and have had to such in the line of duty before. I've done it before, could do it again but don't want to do it again unless I absolutely have to.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I'll be the same person then as I am today just in different set of circumstances.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

I pray I would also be the same as I am today, but obviously less trusting. Todays decision to lend someone $20, is greatly outwieghed by a gallon of water in "end times". Circumstances and scenerios all have to taken as they come, train, prepare, learn, practise, but no matter what we say, when the "TIDE IS HIGH", we cant anticipate our responses. Training dictates the "fight or fright" response. 
For a young man your age, you ask some very grownup questions.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I'll be sort of a ninja turtle.

I'll probably pretty much stay out of sight in my shell eating bacon until I have to come out and kick some ass.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

As long as I can be I will be the guy everyone knows get find what they need. That has the potential of real support. But I will also be the guy with friends who are quick to bring judgement too. 

I have done that before and it was surprising that after getting the word out that if someone stole from me I wasn't likely to call the cops but "take care of it myself" the local trouble makers became my friends.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

My plan is to organize my neighborhood and be a savior. I have a year round creek, the only one I the area and that will be a lifesaver after it hits the fan. Also have excess food stored that I will trade for services of my neighbors that do now, like wood, labor, metals, gas etc.

I live in a rural area with about 30 people in a 1 /2 mile area but I see them as an asset rather than a liability. The first day after the SHTF I will be visiting my neighbors for a neighborhood meeting and working out a defense plan, a food plan (which includes slaughtering my older horses for food) and a sanitation plan which means learn to burn your garbage and dig a shitter to avoid disease.

But I'm a leader and have gotten to my current readiness by using those skills to thrive and prepare. I feel sorry for the people that deny the American strengths of humanity and Christian love for some demented calling to just survive regardless of their fellows suffering.


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## NordicWarrior94 (Aug 20, 2013)

:twisted: Bandit :twisted:

You suckers better watch out!

LOL


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. I would venture to say the same holds for guns.....


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

neutral... I wouldn't pick a fight with me though. ill spend a lot of my time minding my own business unless something is really wrong going on I n front of me. id neutralize that situation right away. like I said... neutral. lol


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I have worked up a letter to give to each of my 13 neighbors and here it is

Hello Neighbors
Well strange things are happening, as of now I have no power and I don't expect it to come on in the next few days or even weeks.

This letter is my attempt at organizing our community so that everyone has basic needs met and to make enduring this problem with as little stress as possible. I have prepared this letter in advance and printed it out in anticipation of this exact problem occurring. My Christian beliefs make it clear to me that I am to love my neighbor as myself, and to this end I am motivated to do so for all of you. Together we can make this ordeal a lot more bearable.

I would like to have a neighborhood meeting and dinner at my home at this time:

During the meeting we can discuss the immediate needs of our community which will include but not be limited to:
Security
Waste Disposal
Water and food
Communications

This first meeting is for information purposes only, you will not be required to join anything or commit the resources you have. My feeling is we can get a lot further and be a lot safer as a community over a bunch of individual homes and people fighting over the resources we have.

For instance I have a year round water source on my property and want to make that available for anyone that needs it. You can use this water for washing, flushing and if boiled drinking (the people that home steaded my property drank it without treatment) We can work out access points for you to get this water if you need it. If anyone has easily accessible drinking water I am hoping we can establish a system for people that do not have it to get it. Hauling water is heavy and several access points are better than one.

Also I have planted several acres of wheat and barley on my property, depending on the time of year this may be a next years crop or something we can harvest soon. My irrigation system is gravity fed so we can expect this crop to be available for the community if we can get it to maturity and harvest it. This will take a community effort to protect it and harvest it by hand and I intend on sharing this with all who help. Depending on the time of year we can also take some land to plant gardens and use the same irrigation system to water it.

Things you can do NOW:

1. Disease is a big threat, create a system to dispose of waste while you have the time and freedom to move around. 
Toilets: you can dig an outhouse or haul water and flush your toilets manually. To flush just pull the lid off the back of the toilet and fill with water, you can now flush as before but need to refill the reservoir each time. If you choose to dig an outhouse make sure it is at least 3 feet deep and 50 feet away from your water well. Please keep your neighbors in mind and not put it upwind from them as much as possible. 

Garbage, make plans now to dispose of garbage. Do NOT stack it outside your house or on the road!! This will only attract vermin, smell terrible, make a mess and spread disease. Get a burning barrel or set up a fire pit to burn paper. Use the fire to also burn the unused food in cans and jars. Dig a pit and dispose of solid waste that cannot be burned like cans, bottles, etc. You may want to recycle as much of these items by washing them and saving them for future use. Uneaten food can be fed to chickens, dogs, cats or composted. 
This is a very serious issue, don't threaten the health of your family or your community by being a slob, the garbage man isn't coming so plan accordingly.

Water: you can only live for 3 days without water and you will need a clean source. If you are using creek water or open source water make sure you treat it before drinking. You can add bleach to water, about 10 drops per gallon and let it sit for 30 minutes. If the water does not smell like bleach after 30 minutes, RETREAT the water. If after 2 treatments it does not smell like bleach find a different source. If you let it sit overnight the bleach will evaporate and remove the taste. 10 drops per gallon will not be dangerous if consumed. You can boil water for 6 minutes at 160 degrees to kill bacteria, this is not a full boil so don't waste fuel. Work with your neighbors that have clean sources of water, I know of 1 artisan well and one person with a spring, we have a lot of it around and no sense wasting wood or fuel cooking water if we can prevent it.

I will have an example of a "rocket stove" which is easily the most efficient wood heater you can build. It is easy to start, burns hot with very little fuel (and smoke). I will show people how to construct one if they want. There is a picture of the concept at the end of this booklet.

Also I show a Dakota Fire Hole drawing which takes no special tools to construct and uses the same basic concept. Both of these ideas are to give you maximum heat for a minimum amount of wood and smoke.

Food: 
With the electricity gone you need to eat or preserve the food you have frozen or refrigerated. Save your canned food for later and consume anything that will spoil first. There are a lot of different ways to preserve the food you have frozen and I will mention a few.
1. A LOT of food you currently have in your refrigerator does not need to be there. Even if the label recommends it you can store catsup, mustard, anything pickled, sauces like soy, teriyaki, lemon juice, pickles, etc in a cool place for weeks. 
2. Don't open the freezer door any more than you have to, the food in there will keep for a few days if you don't waste the cold by checking on it.
3. Move your freezer to a cooler spot, in the winter move it outside, in the summer into the basement. You can increase the hold time by insulating the outside of the freezer in warm weather (Cover with additional blankets etc.) or opening and spreading out the food in cold weather. 
4. Preserve what you can as rapidly as possible. You "can" meat in glass jars easily by fully cooking it, putting it in jars, filling with broth and pressure cooking it. It takes about 3 hours to pressure cook so plan accordingly for fuel. Of course you need canning supplies which you may not have.

Dry Curing:
Another way to preserve meat by curing it with salt and nitrates (curing salt). This has been done for hundreds of years before refrigerators, bacon and ham are dry cured meats. Take the meat and hand rub in liberal amounts of salt, Pack the meat into a food grade 5 gallon bucket with some holes in the bottom for the water to leak out put it somewhere cool where it can cure. The curing process removes the water from the meat and the lack of water inhibits the growth of microorganisms. Meat cured this way will keep for months without refrigeration. I have some curing salt available at the meeting for those that do not have any. It is critical that we don't have meat wasted so take some time and get this done.

Jerky is another way to preserve meat. Cut meat into strips, lay out flat and sprinkle a meat seasoning on it not heavy but not lightly (I like to use Lawry's chicken rub on my wild game but have also used other steak seasonings). You can also do wet brines with curing salt or by adding soy, teriyaki, steak sauce about 1/2 and 1/2 with water. Allow to sit for 8 hours in the coolest place you can find, then dry it. You can dry it by hanging it over a fire, setting it in the sun on a hot day (put pepper on the meat to repel insects if needed). The meat is "cooked" by the salt in the seasonings and the drying takes the water out of it. 50 lbs of meat can be reduced to 5-8 lbs of jerky saving the nutritional value for weeks. I use a variety of meat seasonings that you would usually cook with as well as simple table salt and pepper if you have nothing else. Store in a cool dry place for maximum life.

Get your food preservation going even if you had the foresight to have a generator and plan on keeping your food frozen. It will take about 30 gallons of gas a week to keep a generator going enough to keep food frozen depending on the time of year.

If you don't have any food in your house, or have a small supply:
This section is for you and don't feel bad, a majority of people only have about 3 days of food in their home. The purpose of the planned meeting is to find out how we stand and how we can help. If you do not have food resources we need to get moving very fast and come up with a barter system to trade skills-for-food. If someone has extra food they can trade for something they do not have and need. Obvious examples is firewood, water or water hauling labor, help in gardens or in defense, waste disposal etc. 

If transportation is available, you should already be out to the local stores getting everything you can afford. Check out the grocery stores, the gas stations, the fast food places in the area. Don't waste money on perishable items unless that is all that is left. Obviously salt, curing salt like "Tender quick", sugar, pickling salt, spices, bleach, matches or lighters, gas, propane, canned food, canning supplies, batteries, camping supplies, are some ideas besides food. Toilet paper, sanitary napkins, soap, pet food, etc. Bring a flashlight as you will probably need it to get around the stores. 

Also there are a lot of food sources in our area that can be used including wild game, edible plants such as cattails and dandelions, domestic animals, chicken eggs, etc. The point I want to stress is I am willing to help but I'm not willing to create dependency. Everyone has a skill they can give back to the community even if that is simple labor in trade for what you need. If you want to wait for FEMA be my guest, but until then God helps those that help themselves. This means be ready to pitch in and help out where ever needed.

Pets:
Pets may be a luxury you cannot afford. Unless you have several bags of food stocked away, your cute little companion may very easily become a overwhelming burden. Lewis and Clark on their way across the country found dog to be a preferred meal and often traded with the natives for dogs to eat. You don't have to eat "fluffy" but if you don't have much food, get rid of him or her. Stray dogs will kill livestock and get into garbage and spread disease. On my place stray animals will be quickly put down and probably butchered. Tie them up or lose them, any roaming dogs weather they are hurting anything or not are now open season. The old adage good fences make good neighbors applies here.

Rule of Law
This is a subject we need to discuss now. 

Without electricity we need to realize there is no fire department or police department and we are on our own. This isn't the old west but we are not far from it and we are sure to be confronted with people that think that no police means no law. I propose that we organize into a town, with a simple charter and some simple easy to understand laws that everyone agrees to abide by.

Here is a proposed list. I am putting them here for you to ponder before the meeting.

1. Respect Private Property. There will be no stealing of private property, this includes people inside the community and outside as well. We need to set a moral code for how we will treat and respect other peoples property. Keep in mind the house you loot may have its owners arriving the next day. If you steal their property you could be killing them indirectly by denying them the resources they need to live. 

2. All movement in the neighborhood will be done in the daylight, anyone moving around in the dark will be considered a hostile. During the daytime if you use force or deadly force against another person you will be held accountable. The purpose for this law is simple, at night you don't have the ability to take the time to learn the intentions of another person, during the daytime you can usually see if they are a threat. We need to be able to move around in the light to do our chores, it is expected people will be active in the daylight hours so don't start shooting before asking questions.

3. Everyone has the right to keep and bear arms anytime, anywhere, and if you are smart you will.

4. We need a ruling council to oversee disputes, negotiate with outside parties and organize community projects like harvesting and foraging parties.

5. We need to organize a defense and agree what that looks like. Obviously I have some thoughts on this but it will take a consensus for it to be effective. I will suggest that we close road access to our area and take steps to enforce that security. Looting and riots will start very soon in the city and that will spread into the rural areas once people realize there is no longer any law.

6. We need a means of communicating with each other, I have stored some GMRS 2 way radios with rechargeable batteries. For those that join the town, we will use them to establish a system for secure communications. 

You may be thinking this is really extreme and I am over reacting, that is fine but you should attend the meeting anyway. I have a lot of information available and it didn't take a lot of mental work on my part to understand that our country spending 40% more than it was taking in on taxes was going to end badly. 

When you combine that with all the presidential orders that have been signed to establish marshal law in America then 2+2=4 and I'm going to put some thought into this. 

I would rather sit down with my neighbors and make sure we are all safe and cared for. I don't have near the supplies it would take to support a tenth of the population in our neighborhood but WE do have the resources to work together and survive.

If this whole thing blows over, then you can laugh at me and we all got to know each other a little better. If it does not blow over, it never hurts to plan, what else have you got to do?


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Montana, I would love to have someone with your mindset in NM. Hopefully next door. Very well thought out.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Gah, anyone can do this, just copy and paste and take the lead.

Trust me when the SHTF people will look for leaders.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

nice very well done


Montana Rancher said:


> I have worked up a letter to give to each of my 13 neighbors and here it is
> 
> Hello Neighbors
> Well strange things are happening, as of now I have no power and I don't expect it to come on in the next few days or even weeks.
> ...


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## Eternal_Prepper (Nov 12, 2013)

jimb1972 said:


> Depends on the situation, probably a bit of all of them. Nothing will be as clearly defined in practice as it is in your mind before everything goes to hell.


Tha'ts true. You always seem to think situations out many times but nothing can prepare you for the actual event.

People behave much differently when they are put under pressure.

You gotta keep your cool 

Eternal_Prepper


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

NoahGoldFox said:


> Like when the SHTF and its the apocalypse, will you be a bandit (kills everyone on site) a neutral (avoids people unless they seem nice and only kill bandits that go after you) or a savior? (kills ALL bandits,gives food to survivors, helps everyone, just do as much as you can to help everyone). i will probably be a neutral, il stay in a safehouse most of the time and i will stay away from people unless im CERTAIN there nice.


I'll lean towards neutral but be quick to change to the bandit side. In a true SHTF situation, unless someone can bring skills or resources to the table, they'll get little to no help. My primary obligation is to my family, not those that failed to prepare.


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