# Small scale Hydro Electric Power



## Reconone (Dec 23, 2019)

Good morning patriots....I recently purchased a 6 acre property with an existing residence. There is a seasonal creek located about 300 ft behind the house that runs along my property line. During periods of rain, the creek runs fast with at least a couple of feet of depth. I'm located in central Arkansas, so there is the potential of rain for most of the winter. The creek stops flowing in the summer months, but never really dries up all the way.

Does anyone have knowledge of, or suggestions for a small scale hydro electric unit or other means of generating power by means of the flowing water? I have sufficient electrical skills to wire and install residential & commercial electrical systems and equipment, but I'm just not familiar with what's available for this scenario.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Serious violation of the law in most place with out permits from Army Corp eng. State and like a few others depending on State law. Takes a lot of water flow to really generate usable power. a low draw can slowly charge a battery.


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## Reconone (Dec 23, 2019)

Thanks for the info Smitty. Something for me to research in my new state, I sure do not need to invite any trouble from "the man" Society has turned me into enough of a law breaker as it is.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

You might be able to construct a non-permanent sustem and only install it when the "need" arises.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Could just run a pipe for the water to flow through off a small dammed up area. Using the weight of the water more then the current to turn a wheel for a more consistent flow. Gear reduction to your alternator/generator for power. Provided you have some drop in the level of the creek bed, aka a small water fall. Goggle is your friend for this one. 

It's up to you but if you ask the answer will be no. So at your own risk just do it and ask forgiveness after the fact, IMHO. Try to do as little damage as possible and make it easy to return the creek back to normal. Hopefully it will go unnoticed, keep it small and well hidden.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Reconone said:


> Thanks for the info Smitty. Something for me to research in my new state, I sure do not need to invite any trouble from "the man" Society has turned me into enough of a law breaker as it is.


 Army corp of ENG has more power that all of them to hang you. I kid you not. I went through 3 years of hell over cleaning a ditch we had a permit to do. And it was the State that put the ditch in 1951.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

While possible to make power from a flowing stream you really need to get some vertical drop in the water to reasonably make power. Even 18" of head driving a squirrel fan turbine can make 15+ watts. Usually it's easier to just buy a solar panel.

As far as the permits goes it's difficult unless you and prove to the water board that you have historic rights such as maybe there was an old mill at the site 50 years ago.
For a small "run of the river" power generation I wouldn't ask for permission in a rural area. Many of my customers didn't with no problems (I used to build water turbines). 
I live in a rural area that barely has a building inspector so when I converted my home to solar power I didn't ask. I just built the system. Years later when the county noticed I walked them through the system and explained how it was in compliance with NEC 2014 giving out lots of details. The inspector had no idea about half of what I was saying and since I'd brought in a certified electrician to look things over before I turned the system on for the first time the building inspector was satisfied. 

I brought in an electrician so that if I ever had an insurance claim I could show that a certified electrician had inspected the system. The electrician also had no idea how the DC portion of the solar system was wired but agreed that all wiring looked good and the system had plenty of breakers ect.


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## 0rocky (Jan 7, 2018)

I'd suggest a water wheel type of construction. You'll need to get some gears to speed up the rpm's of the final output shaft and I'd look into PM Alternators (Permanent Magnet). They have advantages over generators. (I'm thinking automotive type/style). You can get some nice 12V systems otherwise, depending on your budget, you can start thinking inverters and 120V A.C. Good luck. Sounds like a nice project.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Great idea on the Hydro-Power but sounds complicated...:vs_worry:

With an over-supply of illegals, get you a gaggle of them and tie them up to a series of treadmills hooked up to the proper alternators/invertors and then to a battery bank you might be able to supply adequate power to your homestead. You'll need to set a timer every couple of hours to remind you to scream IMMAGRACION, IMMIGRACION to help motivate the illegals. :vs_closedeyes:

But keep in mind that making burritos and chimmichangas to feed the little ******* bastards uses valuable energy...lain:


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

OK, . . . a little math:

One horsepower is 550 ft lbs of energy, . . . it is also 750 watts. The average house uses something less than 3KW of power PER HOUR while folks are up and about, . . . less when they are sleeping.

Not allowing for any depreciation of effort, . . . needing 3000 watts, . . . that means 4 horsepower is required to make that amount of electricity.

4 times 550 means you have to have 2200 pounds of water dropping 1 foot and applying that force to some type of mechanical device that will convert the mechanical motion into electricity.

2200 pounds of water is a little over 300 gallons, . . . per hour, . . . or 5 gallons per minute, . . . or one gallon every 12 seconds.

I know, . . . that is "pie in the sky" engineering, . . . but it is a place to begin the decision making process on "can I do this?".

If you cannot create this flow on a 24/7/365 basis, . . . then you have to think about batteries as a storage medium and devices to turn 12 VDC into 120 VAC.

If you CAN CREATE this flow, . . . reliably, . . . you are good to go.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> OK, . . . a little math:
> 
> One horsepower is 550 ft lbs of energy, . . . it is also 750 watts. The average house uses something less than 3KW of power PER HOUR while folks are up and about, . . . less when they are sleeping.
> 
> ...


 Dam now my head hurts again . Heat rises water flows down hill. For the most part , there are exceptions.


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## modfan (Feb 18, 2016)

Oh if it were only that easy. Calculating electrical energy is not quite that easy. That's why watts are used instead of horsepower. First you need to figure out what voltage you need and how many watts. For those of you who like math I (Current) X V (Voltage) - P (Watts) and you ask why is the important. Because 1 Volt X 1 Amp =1 Watt. So to get to the mythical 3kw of power there are a number of ways to do it. Take your 3000 watts/12 volts =250 amps or 3000 watts/ 100amps=30 volts. There are a number of ways to skin the cat. Then depending on whether you have an inductive load heating elements or resistive load you can play around with frequency.

I've been building industrial generators for quite awhile now and there are a lot of creative ways to do things. If you do build one here is a bit of advice use a heavy flywheel.



dwight55 said:


> OK, . . . a little math:
> 
> One horsepower is 550 ft lbs of energy, . . . it is also 750 watts. The average house uses something less than 3KW of power PER HOUR while folks are up and about, . . . less when they are sleeping.
> 
> ...


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

modfan said:


> Oh if it were only that easy. Calculating electrical energy is not quite that easy. That's why watts are used instead of horsepower. First you need to figure out what voltage you need and how many watts. For those of you who like math I (Current) X V (Voltage) - P (Watts) and you ask why is the important. Because 1 Volt X 1 Amp =1 Watt. So to get to the mythical 3kw of power there are a number of ways to do it. Take your 3000 watts/12 volts =250 amps or 3000 watts/ 100amps=30 volts. There are a number of ways to skin the cat. Then depending on whether you have an inductive load heating elements or resistive load you can play around with frequency.
> 
> I've been building industrial generators for quite awhile now and there are a lot of creative ways to do things. If you do build one here is a bit of advice use a heavy flywheel.


Well, . . . there never was an effort to calculate the electrical energy needed, . . . I took that straight from a Google search on average household usage of electricity in the US, . . . and looking at several different answers, . . . a 3000 watt load was the mid-range.

Using AC electricity, . . . with a 208/110 or a 240/110 alternator, . . . that produces 3KW, . . . that is all we need to know electrical wise.

One horsepower of mechanical energy (in a perfect world) produces 750 watts of electricity. Needing 3000 watts, . . . it is simple that it takes 4 horsepower to produce that 3000 watts (again, . . . in a perfect world).

When I wrote my original piece, . . . my brain went out for a doughnut or something, . . . I was not thinking correctly, . . .

That 3000 watts requires mechanical energy at the rate of 4 (for the 4 horsepower) X 550 ft lbs per second. That is in reality, . . . 2200 ft lbs of energy, . . . which would be equal to about 300 gallons dropping 1 lineal foot per second.

Deciding to use hydroelectric would require a high head of water flow, . . . but it could be managed if one had the water available.

AND, . . . yes, . . . 100% agreement on the heavy flywheel, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

In the 1930s, my grandparents farm was still without electricity. They had two small streams running off the mountain through the property. One fed a series of cisterens that gravity fed the farm with water 24/7.

One of my uncles was a genius, they bumped him from 9th grade to a senior in high school (14 years old). He fabricated a system using a truck generator and 6V lead/acid battery bank for a small hydro power system. It wouldn't power a washing machine or appliances, but everyone was happy just to have electric lights in the evening, instead of oil lamps.

We lost that uncle to cancer when he was just 18.

What I'm getting at , SHTF, just having something simple as lighting is a wonder.

I'm sure something similar using a HD automotive alternator could be fabricated cheaply today. Damming up a small pond would be a way to store power above the capacity of a battery bank.


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