# Lead acid batteries



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Does anyone store lead acid batteries? Electrolyte is not terribly expensive and I was thinking a battery that was drained and the acid neutralized might last indefinitely. Anyone know anything about this topic? I know ATV/MC batteries used to come dry and you added the acid and charged them before use.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

How long are you wanting to store the battery?


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Denton said:


> How long are you wanting to store the battery?


until I need it, a decade? who knows.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

jimb1972 said:


> until I need it, a decade? who knows.


We store aircraft batteries on pallets for months before they are used. When cycled out of an aircraft, they are conditioned and recharged. Acid is added as necessary. Before SLABs. It's easier, now.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Denton said:


> We store aircraft batteries on pallets for months before they are used. When cycled out of an aircraft, they are conditioned and recharged. Acid is added as necessary. Before SLABs. It's easier, now.


Lead acid batteries can be stored for 5-7 years with the correct charger/maintainer, I would like to have batteries available to me past that 5-7 year window.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

jimb1972 said:


> Lead acid batteries can be stored for 5-7 years with the correct charger/maintainer, I would like to have batteries available to me past that 5-7 year window.


We don't store them that long. A lot riding on them.

Why not condition/recharge during good times, rather than spending energy charging them during bad times?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Maybe what the OP is wanting is a inert battery with an extended shelf life that can be 'turned on' and used after SHTF. I recall seeing C and D batteries once that had two chemicals seperated internally and were mixed by twisting two halves of the battery to create a working battery.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Most off grid power systems require batteries, batteries have a finite life span. I would like to have batteries for solar and vehicles available for longer than than 5 years in the case of long term disaster.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I looked at NiFe batteries, but WOW those things are expensive.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Ahhh, pertinent topic since I was teaching some people about lead acid batteries today at my place for their solar system.

Short answer is no. The mostly lead plates in batteries begin to age the day they are made. For shipping purposes you may find some batteries arrive with the electrolyte solution (about 32% Sulphuric acid) separate but this is for shipping purposes.

Some calcium based batteries can be stored dry but they are very limited in the number of cycles they can do when activated so not a good choice for a long term SHTF battery.

Storing full batteries without cycling them any, keeping them on a constant trickle charger is good but not the best choice either although it's better than heavily cycling them. For the longest battery life keep them relatively cool and once a month cycle then down about 20% before recharging them to full. If you store the batteries for many months without cycling them the electrolyte will separate so a high sulpheric acid level in the bottom of the batteries and mostly water covering the top of the lead plates. This is not good for the top of the plates sitting in plain water so by cycling (use some power and then give it a strong recharge) you mix the electrolyte monthly minimizing stratification.

For the longest storage potential the Lithium batteries generally will last longer but an expensive choice. Also the BMS (battery monitoring system) lithiums require may not survive an EMP.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Elvis said:


> Ahhh, pertinent topic since I was teaching some people about lead acid batteries today at my place for their solar system.
> 
> Short answer is no. The mostly lead plates in batteries begin to age the day they are made. For shipping purposes you may find some batteries arrive with the electrolyte solution (about 32% Sulphuric acid) separate but this is for shipping purposes.
> 
> ...


Ok, my thought was draining the electrolyte and keeping it separate, rinsing and drying the internals, and then throwing a hand warmer into the case before sealing it to absorb any oxygen might keep a battery viable for long term storage.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

jimb1972 said:


> Ok, my thought was draining the electrolyte and keeping it separate, rinsing and drying the internals, and then throwing a hand warmer into the case before sealing it to absorb any oxygen might keep a battery viable for long term storage.


I've never considered or heard about the possibility of storing a FLA (flooded lead acid) battery in an oxygen free environment so perhaps possible, I just don't know.

But conceder 2 things. Man's ability to harness and use energy promoted the Industrial Revolution. The ability to harness energy and use it is a huge advantage when others are stuck using muscle power; especially gas and electricity.

1. One gallon of gasoline is considered to make the same amount of energy as a man's labor for 3 1/2 days. A strong well fed young man can push a 3800 lb car about 34 miles down the highway (3 1/2 days work); the same distance as a gallon of gasoline.

2. Prepping for long term emergencies has some cost, Some long term storage food and cooking oils must be rotated every 3-5 years, other foods may last 20 years. But it all must be rotated and replaced. If you're looking for long term energy storage it also will need to be rotated occasionally, maybe every 10 years for high quality batteries. The batteries I recently purchased have a 10 year warranty (Rolls 5000 series)


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Elvis said:


> I've never considered or heard about the possibility of storing a FLA (flooded lead acid) battery in an oxygen free environment so perhaps possible, I just don't know.
> 
> But conceder 2 things. Man's ability to harness and use energy promoted the Industrial Revolution. The ability to harness energy and use it is a huge advantage when others are stuck using muscle power; especially gas and electricity.
> 
> ...


Those are good points, my concern is something happening when I am 7 years in on a 10 year battery. There is not any way to predict some events, timing is everything, and one of the things we have little control over. Trying to find a way to preserve batteries is just an attempt to increase the odds I am prepared to deal with circumstances I cannot control. Perhaps I will attempt it with an ATV battery and see if it works.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

jimb1972 said:


> Those are good points, my concern is something happening when I am 7 years in on a 10 year battery. There is not any way to predict some events, timing is everything, and one of the things we have little control over. Trying to find a way to preserve batteries is just an attempt to increase the odds I am prepared to deal with circumstances I cannot control. Perhaps I will attempt it with an ATV battery and see if it works.


If you're going to run a test on a dry battery for say 1 year than I'd suggest that you get and charge the battery. Then test the battery by putting a known load on it (12v heater like you can plug into a cigarette lighter $12) and time how long the battery can support the load (heater fan keeps running). A 12 amp hour ATV battery and it should go for about 60-70 minutes.

Now recharge the battery before draining the battery and store for 1 year. Refill, top off the charge and run the test again to see if the battery has lost capacity.

I know this is common sense but wear safety glasses when draining and refilling the battery and wash your hands after.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

A few years ago I saw a 1962 Delco car battery that was new never charged. It came with some powder and acid.
I was told it would be "As new" after charged.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

If you by new ones without the electrolyte in them they should store a good long time. Might want to plug the vents as lead will oxidize over time.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Some batteries still come dry and you ad the acid when your ready to put it in your bike I think that's what he's asking about. I bet a
battery stored like this would last a really long time.

Buy a battery for your bike or lawnmower and some come dry and the battery juice is in a 
squeezable bottle. No reason a full size car battery wouldn't do the same.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Store up on big capacitors.


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

KUSA said:


> Store up on big capacitors.


Ok, so I have never heard that....where would those go in a wiring diagram?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

To my limited knowledge capacitors are for short term high output storage. Not a good choice to replace a battery.


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

Thanks. Did not know that. Guess you can teach an old dog new tricks 

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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

soyer38301 said:


> Ok, so I have never heard that....where would those go in a wiring diagram?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Capacitors aren't quite a replacement for a battery but some people have had some interesting results with them. Check out the video.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

KUSA said:


> Capacitors aren't quite a replacement for a battery but some people have had some interesting results with them. Check out the video.


I like it, but I am not sure I can get capacitors with enough capacity to start a diesel in cold weather. It would probably work in my car.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

KUSA said:


> Capacitors aren't quite a replacement for a battery but some people have had some interesting results with them. Check out the video.


Nice but as you probably noticed when watching the video that while the capacitors could put out a strong current for a few seconds to crank the engine they were unable to sustain even a low current output for more than 20-30 minutes. Thus the additional LSA battery he had to add to play the radio for 10 minutes with the engine off and still have the power to start the engine.

Capacitors are great for relatively short term storage of a lot of energy but aren't so good for a low current draw for more than a few minutes.

I've seen caps still holding a strong charge 2-3 days after being disconnected from their charging source but I suspect that rarely will a capacitor hold more than half it's charge for more than a week.


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