# New preppers, Consider these when defending your property.



## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Lately, I've noticed a few newbies, some younger than me and some with no military background.

This first video is very interesting and can be helpful to know when you act or practice what the second video teaches.

I live in NE FL and I do not trust my life to the pine trees. However, I am curious about palm trees. Palm trees were instrumental in deflecting the British Navy's bombardment of Fort Moultrie during our first Revolutionary War.
We have several oak trees in North FL but they are much farther apart than the pines.

Just something to think about....






I've mentioned this tactic before. Here is a video describing it better than I can.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I got big red oaks around me.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I think you would get different results with a wet living tree and a dry dead standing tree. I think a dead tree will fare worse.


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## topgun (Oct 2, 2013)

I suppose I'm a nitpicker in my old age, but in the first video the guy lost all credibility with me when he measured the tree's circumference, and then told us it was the tree's diameter. He said the first tree was 3 and a half feet in diameter, when clearly it was about a foot in diameter. I thought he would correct himself on the second tree, but he made the same mistake.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Without looking at the videos (I will later) as a WWII history buff let me say the Japanese were well served by bunkers built from palm tree logs during the fighting in the Pacific.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

topgun said:


> I suppose I'm a nitpicker in my old age, but in the first video the guy lost all credibility with me when he measured the tree's circumference, and then told us it was the tree's diameter. He said the first tree was 3 and a half feet in diameter, when clearly it was about a foot in diameter. I thought he would correct himself on the second tree, but he made the same mistake.


Good point. However, that made him lose all credibility? I forgive him for that blooper. I think the video is still informative and relevant.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Without looking at the videos (I will later) as a WWII history buff let me say the Japanese were well served by bunkers built from palm tree logs during the fighting in the Pacific.


This is why the Pacific war after 42 was fought almost exclusively on the ground with CAL.30 AP M-2 and tracer, M25.
AP M-2 will punch through 12"D palm logs and more.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

All white and red oak around here. But I have shot a 500 grain Hornady XTP through 28 inches of live red oak, bounced off the ground and kept going. With a 500 mag handgun, turns cover into concealment.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

well I don't think I'm going to have to worry about looters with that kind of fire power


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

How do concrete block walls stand up?


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## trips-man (Apr 26, 2015)

I don't think i'll every have enough trees (ever have thick ones) anyway. I would have to at least consider what boards to use to "board up" my house if we are talking about ballistic protection (off topic a little....sorry). Any ideas?


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

RNprepper said:


> How do concrete block walls stand up?


Concrete blocks - stack one top of the other (shaming myself for this reply but I couldn't contain it..  )

handgun calibers can pass through cinder blocks and exit a home... at closer range than 20 yards.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

SOCOM42 said:


> This is why the Pacific war after 42 was fought almost exclusively on the ground with CAL.30 AP M-2 and tracer, M25.
> AP M-2 will punch through 12"D palm logs and more.


The AP M-2 performed well against the cinder blocks in this thread... or not well... depending on which side of the block you're at.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

you know what surprised me the most -it's only a 1 off but it stopped a .50 bmg from a barret is a 20 gallon fish tank filled with water of course the round never made out the other side it was still in the tank


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## topgun (Oct 2, 2013)

CWOLDOJAX said:


> Good point. However, that made him lose all credibility? I forgive him for that blooper. I think the video is still informative and relevant.


I didn't mean to discredit him in everyone's eyes. Everyone is free to believe whomever they want to believe, and whatever they want. It's just that if my "teacher" doesn't even understand simple geometry terms, I don't trust him that much to teach me elementary ballistics either. He just lost all credibility to me, the old nitpicker.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

basic geometry or not, he still demonstrated a methodical approach to evaluating the various rounds, so sorry, I do think you are nit picking. just my opinion.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

From TV gun shows, the smaller .223/5.56 did the least damage to the block per round but made it thru. But that's why the make sand bags. But wife warned me that if I get sand on her carpet (I want the bags inside to conceal them) I better have some way to vacuum it up. And at least I have enough sand to fill all the bags I have. I would only guess that hollow block filled with sand might stand up better than unfilled.
View attachment 11629


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

paraquack said:


> From TV gun shows, the smaller .223/5.56 did the least damage to the block per round but made it thru. But that's why the make sand bags. But wife warned me that if I get sand on her carpet (I want the bags inside to conceal them) I better have some way to vacuum it up. And at least I have enough sand to fill all the bags I have. I would only guess that hollow block filled with sand might stand up better than unfilled.
> View attachment 11629


Sand bags are still among the best bullet stoppers... and flood diverters. too bad their not in vogue.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

CWOLDOJAX said:


> The AP M-2 performed well against the cinder blocks in this thread... or not well... depending on which side of the block you're at.


I used to buy standard 8X8X16 concrete blocks for targets, back in the day. My Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt firing regular 250 grain round nose lead slugs will reduce one to rubble in just 3 or 4 shots.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

paraquack said:


> From TV gun shows, the smaller .223/5.56 did the least damage to the block per round but made it thru. But that's why the make sand bags. But wife warned me that if I get sand on her carpet (I want the bags inside to conceal them) I better have some way to vacuum it up. And at least I have enough sand to fill all the bags I have. I would only guess that hollow block filled with sand might stand up better than unfilled.
> View attachment 11629


That weren't no GI or Marine that stacked those.
Take it from a sand bag fillin, sand bag stackin' pro. :armata_PDT_25:


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Why don't they make sandbags prefilled. Am I missing something? It needs to be loose the settle properly doesn't it? I think the 5.45 did better because it had less resistance being less diameter (!!??)


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## topgun (Oct 2, 2013)

paraquack said:


> From TV gun shows, the smaller .223/5.56 did the least damage to the block per round but made it thru. But that's why the make sand bags. But wife warned me that if I get sand on her carpet (I want the bags inside to conceal them) I better have some way to vacuum it up. And at least I have enough sand to fill all the bags I have. I would only guess that hollow block filled with sand might stand up better than unfilled.
> View attachment 11629


I saw an outdoor show where they had sandbags hanging from rope on a tree limb. The guy shot the sand bag with a 30-06 and the projectile didn't penetrate. Then he shot it with a 50# bow and arrow with a field tip, and the arrow when clean through.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

has to do with mass topgun 
you do know that you don't have to put sand in a sand bag, james? regular dirt works just a s good -and it saves on shipping if they are empty.


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## hardcore (Jan 13, 2013)

on the second video.....
.. he says basically not to stand and fight . I disagree.. not to say my fight is against the police government (I think it will be from the have nots) I will make my stand here, sure I cant take out the 9,000 police the guy says...but I am sure I can take a couple out before I get it. MAKE YOUR STAND INPLACE.. just my 2 cents


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

hardcore said:


> on the second video.....
> .. he says basically not to stand and fight . I disagree.. not to say my fight is against the police government (I think it will be from the have nots) I will make my stand here, sure I cant take out the 9,000 police the guy says...but I am sure I can take a couple out before I get it. MAKE YOUR STAND INPLACE.. just my 2 cents


They way I understood the video is that if you know ahead of time an overwhelming force is approaching your home then take a position outside your home to give yourself an fighting advantage. Your pics seem to confirm that.

Surely a handful of looters, a small gang can be subdued... but you may not fare well against a trained military unit.

Often people think of defending there home to the death. Noble, but ineffective to the point of survival.

For example if you are in a one-on-one fight and the other guy is bigger than you. He grabs you rifle - do let him take it or do you fight to keep him from shooting you?
I say let him take it, draw my sidearm and neutralize the threat.

In relation to defending your home, do you let them take it, give yourself a fighting advantage, and recover your property on your terms?

I cannot remember the name of the town on Maine whose residents burnt their own homes stores town to the ground. When the British troops came they thought another unit had already been there and returned to their headquarters. They had to rebuild, of course, and they were alive to do so.

A key point in that town is they knew the overwhelming force was coming.

Perhaps those who have not considered these elements of home defense could now think of of it from a S.E.R.E. (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape) or O.O.D.A. (observe-orient-decide-act) loop viewpoint.

By the way, one point not mentioned is any of the videos is your health and ability. Women, children, elderly and lame. Maneuvering for evasion gets more complicated.

Like I said in the OP, "Something to think about"


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Personally, I will not stand and fight unless confronted with only a very few aggressors. And even then, maybe not.
I will either fade away unseen to fight on my own terms, or shoot one or two to provide me with a few moments of confusion to get away.
Does anyone want to take a round to the body with no medical help nearby? And a half trained person with a first aid kit won't cut it.


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## hardcore (Jan 13, 2013)

yall go ahead and withdraw to fight another day. I wont die tired, my fight will not extend beyond my property line. I wont leave. to old and to much crap to give up.
just kick in a few sand bags over me....and maybe whistle Dixie in my honor.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Fighting from a "fortified" position always sounds good but the best bet is guerrilla tactics. Hit and run because they have to spend time trying to find you and you can continue to hit them and go a different direction.

Anyone can be tracked but the guy you're tracking will know where you are and you will not know where he is. 

If you fight from your home you are at a disadvantage. The attackers know where you are and you have no clue where they are. A home can be bombed, burnt, or just surrounded and occupied. It is never as safe to fight from a "fortified" position as it is to hit and run.


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## hardcore (Jan 13, 2013)

hit and run....no thanks. yall go for it. I want to get this over quick. I don't want to be carrying crap all around and eating cold food and not to mention sleeping on the ground and getting all sweaty. na, let me go in one of my fortified positions. if its in my home..and they make it past my m1a, i will go down swinging a hammer against my depth charge...should take a few with me


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

An over whelming force?
Dude run away, no shit. maybe ambush a few but you will die eventually and so will your family, I do not care how much bang bang boom boom you got they are coming to kill you.
2 peeps can take you down in your castle 1 with a 22 single shot and the other with a 1/2 full 5 gallon gas can. 
I' m saying not to bug in but your giving what if's that purposely are set up for a fail no matter what answer is given.


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## hardcore (Jan 13, 2013)

listen guys...no [email protected] now.....ive seen what happens to refugees both in 3rd world countries and here in the usofa ...that aint for me. you got to die sometime..my life is toward its end. yall go on and haul ass and fight another day, I agree for a young buck..best action ... not hardcore...my fight starts and ends on my property.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

hardcore said:


> hit and run....no thanks. yall go for it. I want to get this over quick. I don't want to be carrying crap all around and eating cold food and not to mention sleeping on the ground and getting all sweaty. na, let me go in one of my fortified positions. if its in my home..and they make it past my m1a, i will go down swinging a hammer against my depth charge...should take a few with me


Are you the only one in your fortified position? 
It's one thing for the captain to go down with the ship, it is a completely different matter to destroy your loved ones because you didn't want to seek safety in the woods..


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I think the point that was being made was straight forward......you can't "shoot, shovel, and shut up" if the two guys coming to your door have already reported their destination to their 9000 co-workers.


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## RevTracy (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> That weren't no GI or Marine that stacked those.
> Take it from a sand bag fillin, sand bag stackin' pro. :armata_PDT_25:


Yep...I noticed that too. Not a bad job for an amateur though.


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## triem (Jun 18, 2015)

ignorant, poverty stricken peasants, with no access to proper gear and nothing cached, that's one thing, but a proper set up, used by a knowledgable man, that's a totally different thing entirelu


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