# Brainstorming emergency scenario uses for a solar generator



## LDSreliance (Sep 2, 2014)

*Preface:* I am an entrepreneur and have been involved in starting several small companies, two of which are still in business today. I am always thinking of new business ideas and ways of doing things better and cheaper.

*Idea:* My best friend, who is an electrical engineer, and I are interested in getting into the solar market and are thinking about making a solar generator designed specifically for preppers. There are a number of solar generators on the market right now and I won't bore you with all the market research but we believe that there is a niche market waiting to be tapped for an affordable, portable, solar-powered generator.

*Brainstorming:* What I need from you all are some ideas on what might need to be powered by a small generator in an emergency or SHTF scenario. In other words, realistically what devices might a prepper need to be powering or recharging in a grid down situation? I will accept all ideas, but I want to keep things realistic so powering refrigerators, air conditioners, microwaves, computers, water heaters, and other high energy loads is not going to happen. The purpose of this is so that I can get an idea of what the average prepper would use this for so I can size it appropriately.

*My take:* For me, there is a bug in scenario and a bug out scenario. For the bug in scenario, I would probably be recharging a portable DVD player and/or laptop for entertaining the kids, recharging batteries for flashlights, powering a lamp or two, and possibly powering a small fan for comfort. In a bug out scenario, I would probably be charging a couple cell phones and a tablet for entertaining the kids, recharging batteries for flashlights, and powering or recharging some communications equipment such as walkie talkies or a small ham radio.

Any and all ideas and feedback would be appreciated. Also, how much would you be willing to pay for such a device?


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I know you said no refrigerators, but that is the most important thing to some.
Keeping medications that require refrigeration is a must in some preps. If power goes out for a week, this is a big deal for those folks.
The generator should be able to support a mini-fridge at the very least. Perhaps not much else in addition, but that would be a big one.

The ability to keep communication avenue open is always a big one too.
Can it charge a handheld radio? Can it keep a HAM base station operating, even if just a few minutes a day?

When it comes to needs, these are what I would put in the top priority.
The rest (lighting, fans, electronics) are more in the luxury category. Nice to have, but won't be plugged in first.


----------



## LDSreliance (Sep 2, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I know you said no refrigerators, but that is the most important thing to some.
> Keeping medications that require refrigeration is a must in some preps. If power goes out for a week, this is a big deal for those folks.
> The generator should be able to support a mini-fridge at the very least. Perhaps not much else in addition, but that would be a big one.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you are saying that refrigeration is very important but the amount of solar panels and batteries that it would take to even run a small mini-fridge around the clock makes it immobile, very heavy, and very large. If you are worried about disaster refrigeration you are much better off buying a small propane fridge like this one Porta-Gaz PG-35G Portable Propane/12vDC/120vAC Compact Refrigerator for $350 and call it a day.

The other suggestions are helpful, thanks!


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I checked out the little 3-way frig. Cute, I wish they specified the current draw at 12VDC. I have a small Norcold fridge that draws 4 amps at 12VDC. It would be my main concern.


----------



## LDSreliance (Sep 2, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I checked out the little 3-way frig. Cute, I wish they specified the current draw at 12VDC. I have a small Norcold fridge that draws 4 amps at 12VDC. It would be my main concern.


4 amps might be doable. Have you ever measured how many watt hours it consumes in a day?


----------



## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I know you said no refrigerators, but that is the most important thing to some.
> Keeping medications that require refrigeration is a must in some preps. If power goes out for a week, this is a big deal for those folks.
> The generator should be able to support a mini-fridge at the very least. Perhaps not much else in addition, but that would be a big one.
> 
> ...


Don't forget that there are already some fairly small-draw 12 volt coolers out there. They are sold for car day trips,,but thanks to their relatively low wattage, they're a good part of any bov/bol scenario. The one I have cost under $60.

As for what's needed in a bugout solar setup, I would think a minimum of a solar panel (or 3), a 12 volt rechargeable battery, and a rectifier to take it to 120 volts. At that point, throw in like 2 120 volt sockets and maybe 4 USB charging sockets. Any way you slice it, it's not going to make you light on your feet. Now, if the person has one of those folding rough terrain wagons, it becomes possible. In Kauboy's situation, it becomes one way to keep his meds fresh. Ham radios will depend a great deal on whether you're talking a hand-held mobile or a base unit. Mobile units will be okay with a few amps in at 12 volts. Base units take much more. The trade-off is in range. Mobiles to 20 miles maybe, but base units can talk globally, given the right antenna. So, as I said, you trade low power, low range for high power, long range. Fortunately for you, LDSreliance, few other things will soak up power like a base ham radio and a fridge. I figure on loading my generator in the old bov if I have to bug out. I found out I can run it on moonshine, so I don't worry about getting gasoline.

I think I'll go see how much a repeater costs. I'd like to be able to set up a local radio net. I guess I could use one of your solar rigs to power it (it's 12 volt).

You want to make something else? Design and build a water-wheel powered generator that's portable. Set it up in any running stream and get 12 volts out. You should be thinking along the lines of a car alternator putting out 100+ amps.


----------



## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Small size, high power output, light yet strong, sitting at 18vdc output so any battery can be used with a light inbuilt solar regulator... 

Small light and strong, small light and strong, long lasting, small light and strong, say it with me...


----------



## LDSreliance (Sep 2, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> Don't forget that there are already some fairly small-draw 12 volt coolers out there. They are sold for car day trips,,but thanks to their relatively low wattage, they're a good part of any bov/bol scenario. The one I have cost under $60.


Good point. Those would be good for bugging out and I guess if that is all you have for bugging in then it is better than nothing.



thepeartree said:


> As for what's needed in a bugout solar setup, I would think a minimum of a solar panel (or 3), a 12 volt rechargeable battery, and a rectifier to take it to 120 volts. At that point, throw in like 2 120 volt sockets and maybe 4 USB charging sockets. Any way you slice it, it's not going to make you light on your feet. Now, if the person has one of those folding rough terrain wagons, it becomes possible. In Kauboy's situation, it becomes one way to keep his meds fresh. Ham radios will depend a great deal on whether you're talking a hand-held mobile or a base unit. Mobile units will be okay with a few amps in at 12 volts. Base units take much more. The trade-off is in range. Mobiles to 20 miles maybe, but base units can talk globally, given the right antenna. So, as I said, you trade low power, low range for high power, long range. Fortunately for you, LDSreliance, few other things will soak up power like a base ham radio and a fridge. I figure on loading my generator in the old bov if I have to bug out. I found out I can run it on moonshine, so I don't worry about getting gasoline.
> 
> I think I'll go see how much a repeater costs. I'd like to be able to set up a local radio net. I guess I could use one of your solar rigs to power it (it's 12 volt).


I have my HAM license but I have never actually operated one. I can't afford another expensive hobby/prep right now so any information you can provide about what power requirements these mobile and base units need will be helpful.



thepeartree said:


> You want to make something else? Design and build a water-wheel powered generator that's portable. Set it up in any running stream and get 12 volts out. You should be thinking along the lines of a car alternator putting out 100+ amps.


That would have to be one heck of a current to generate enough force to crank out over 100 amps! I think the best you could get with a small stream/creek and a light, portable hydro power plant would be 1-2 amps max.


----------



## LDSreliance (Sep 2, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> Small size, high power output, light yet strong, sitting at 18vdc output so any battery can be used with a light inbuilt solar regulator...
> 
> Small light and strong, small light and strong, long lasting, small light and strong, say it with me...


You got it. That is why I am trying to do plenty of research and get plenty of opinions on likely loads so that I can make it as minimalist as possible. No sense packaging (3) 20 watt panels when 40 watts will cover it. No sense providing 100ah and 40 pounds worth of batteries when 50ah will do it.


----------



## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Oh, I don't insist you go by my recommendations. I've presented them and it didn't cost me anything, so you're welcome to ignore them. But take a look in the owners' manual for your car, first. I guarantee that you'll find out that your alternator cranks out between 80 and 100 amps at 12-14 volts d.c. After all, it has to charge the 600 or so amp-hour battery under the hood. As for me, I may or may not need that much power, but having freshly charged car batteries to run my ham radio is a real good idea.

As for the 'expensive' hobby, so far it's cost me $43. That's $5 for the Kenwood TS-940 transceiver and $38 for a subscription to CQ magazine. I'm heading to eBay for the rest of the gear. I figure a max of around $200 for the 3 things I need to complete the base station. Might be less if I get lucky at another yard sale


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I a SHTF situation do think cell towers will be working? Do you want kids playing on a computer using up energy that could be used for lighting?

I think you have an idea but are not realistic of what would be useful.

You can get a decent solar panel and make a universal battery charger using radio shack components. Then you need the properAAA-9V batteries. That IS PORTABLE. A system like this might work for small electronics too. But I know I would rather have lights than kids playing mindless game on a computer.

Want to do much else you need a HUGE panel and/or a battery bank perhaps with an inverter.

I would like to keep my freezer cold and be able to run my well pump. SHTF I will eat all my frozen food first and have > 1000 gallon rainwater system with a purifier. I don't see solar doing either of those for me without a huge investment.

P.S. the pear tree, my uncle lived on my grandparents farm in the 1930s before they were on grid. He made a water paddle wheel that ran two truck generators to a battery bank, they had electric 6V lights. Modern 12V alternators would be MUCH better as would some large capacity batteries like they use in golf carts. With a large enough inverter refrigeration and well pumps are feasible. They did not need a well pump, they had spring fed cisterns with about 150' of head for pressure. Never a lacking for clean cool water.


----------



## pharmer14 (Oct 27, 2012)

LDSreliance said:


> I agree with what you are saying that refrigeration is very important but the amount of solar panels and batteries that it would take to even run a small mini-fridge around the clock makes it immobile, very heavy, and very large. If you are worried about disaster refrigeration you are much better off buying a small propane fridge like this one Porta-Gaz PG-35G Portable Propane/12vDC/120vAC Compact Refrigerator for $350 and call it a day.
> 
> The other suggestions are helpful, thanks!


Depending on the medicine, some are stable for up to a month at room temperature anyways (I'm thinking of some insulins here). But the bigger discussion with chronic diseases is that in a long term SHTF scenario, the drugs will run out anyways. You won't have any medication to store in the refrigerator in the first place.


----------



## LDSreliance (Sep 2, 2014)

Great discussion folks. I appreciate everyone's input.

To be successful, a new product has to be as flexible and broadly marketable as possible. In other words, it needs to do a lot of things for a lot of people. Yes, we are currently on a prepper forum so most on this forum are concerned with SHTF and doomsday scenarios. However, being brutally honest preppers are the extreme and would only be a small market to tap into. So I need to make this product marketable to people for a 72 hour kit or for camping, too. So things like being able to charge a phone or laptop as well as the more important necessities of life as we know it are just as important.


----------



## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

What is affordable?
How big is portable?
Those are two important questions.
There are units out there which will run a small freezer indefinitely. (theoretically, at least)
One in particular weighs ~150# in its wheeled box with rolled up solar panels and costs over $2K.
There are others.
What are your parameters?


----------



## thesean75 (Oct 5, 2014)

In a SHTF scenario power isn't a necessity in most climates if certain preps are taken beforehand, many people as far north as Alaska get by without power, using woodburning stoves for heat, IMO, when SHTF, a very small solar panel or wind turbine would be enough as it would only be used as nightime lighting or emergency situations.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

A whole house standby generator and a large number of solar panels/regulators/inverters/batteries is a hell of a lot better than 1 small solar panel.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Slippy,
A whole house generator is going to wake the dead and alert everyone in a two mile radius that you have power and fuel. A large number of solar panels will also tell the world that you have what they want.

I am not saying that it would not be useful, just that it comes with some serious drawbacks. What are you going to need power for in a SHTF event? If it is a local, temporary thing you still open yourself up to looters. In a national, long term event you are a big target for raiders and looters alike if you have that kind of setup. Are you prepared to defend it 24/7?


----------

