# when the economy collapse will it cause the grid to go down?



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

When the dollar finally collapses and the food riots start and stuff starts getting ugly will it affect the grid?


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Does anyone know the answer to that? Who can tell?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Possibly.


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## homegrownrose (Mar 24, 2016)

This is something I have been wondering as well. You'd have to really look at all scenarios, causes, and effects. In short, yes, and no. 

The economy collapsing isn't something that individually would make the lights go out. HOWEVER, let's consider why it collapsed. Without going into a LOT of details, it is possible that we could lose trade relations with other countries, and thus lose access to fuel. This could mean rolling black outs, limited power, or none at all.

Personally speaking, if the economy crashes, and fuel becomes premium, could you afford it? With electricity being at a ridiculously high cost, I imagine we would all be looking at ways to avoid having to pay more on the bill than is absolutely necessary. We are not in an economic collapse right now, but I can tell you that during the summer my AC bill is so high that I hang dry all my clothes to help offset the cost a wee bit from running the dryer. I have a feeling in an economic collapse we will all be counting the kwh to see what we can get by with.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> When the dollar finally collapses and the food riots start and stuff starts getting ugly will it affect the grid?


With a economy collapse, how do we pay our electric bill, I'm sure the grid will be operational as Long as its employees are willing to work for nothing, after that is anyone's guess


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Yes, no money, no pay, no workers

no money, no coal, no gas, no steam, no power

no money, no workers, no trains to transport coal/gas



so YES.. the power will go out.... no in DC but other places


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

The grid requires constant attention and maintenance, if the people who operate and maintain it are not there keeping an eye on things and making repairs then it will eventually fail. Short answer yes if nobody is there to monitor it, it will go down, maybe not right away but at some point it will.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Great question, man i really hope we keep power. Even though you prep for it it would lighten the load so much if gas & electric was ok. Were power losses a problem during the great depression (besides not paying the bill)? I don't think unemployment would be a factor, IMO some jobs would be very safe after a collapse, during the great depression people who kept their jobs gained purchasing power, i think public utility employees will be in that boat. If shelves run dry AND people have no power or gas bodies will pile up like the friggin black plague.


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## Joe Smith (Aug 21, 2015)

My opinion is no, the grid will not go down. Why? Based on what I've studied of history, and one of my great interests , the Great Depression, conditions were far worse than most any situation we could face now and the grid, did not disappear.

There will still be people that can afford anything, and some will get rich during this period. 

My grandfather was around during this time and had the exalted title of sewer inspector in NYC. Sometimes the city would pay it's employees, and sometimes it wouldn't. They would do what they could, maybe you would get a turkey, but if you left the job, you now have no job. With unemployment so high no one would want to leave.

Our family was the recipient of a lesson which I carry through even today; always have something on the side-a second job. He could play musical instruments and had a small band to play at weddings, barmitzvahs, etc. I know they don't teach that in school anymore but that's what it was like then.

The only problem is that you, and I, will not be able to afford electricity if things get that bad. It might as well be down if your neighborhood is blacked out from lack of funds. I'm now on the hunt for my third job, the second stops over the summer, and 1st job's slow season is beginning.

Good luck, don't trust the banks, have cash hidden to carry you through.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Joe, you are telling me that if you worked for the electric company and they weren't getting 
the money from its customers to pay you, you would keep on working for no pay out of the 
goodness of your heart just so the wealthy could keep the lights on in their mansions while 
your family goes without electricity, food, etc.? Dang, you are a better man than I Gunga Din!


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

lots of factors to consider.. a lot may hinge on fuel, food, and water.. if there is no fuel to get to work= no workers, if there is no food= no workers... if there is no power= no water= no order after 3 days or so. 
of course this would all be dependent on widespread effects and not localized..


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

if it's food riots... and other such turmoil.. would you leave your family home to put in a 9-5? (especially if they aren't even paying you)

Sometimes I wonder if the bulk of preppers won't make it a sort of self fulfilling prophecy.. several dominoes fall, on their own they aren't a trigger for a collapse, but those in-the-know responding to said dominoes cause the cascade chain reaction (run on banks, no-show for work, ammo/food shortage etc..).
picture 30 people with carts full at 4am at walmart.. all with tactical gear.. all knowing why the other is there.. ahead of the Dumb masses.. just a few nods and glances and smiles...


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## Joe Smith (Aug 21, 2015)

Paraquack,
No, I'm not saying that you would work out of the goodness of your heart. If you don't get payed every week, do you quit? Then what do you do if 25 people are lined up to take your job? Do you think you will just get another great job, or would you file for an unemployment claim and collect for the next 99 weeks?.

If you have a family to feed you'd more than likely stay. Yes there will always be millionaires in their mansions, and the electric company will not close.

Do not expect to find another job, or collect anything from the Gov't. Do you really think guys like you and me will have a lot of choices? I'm just telling you what happened last time around, human nature doesn't change all that much, and don't count on much of that "goodness of heart " stuff.


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## C.L.Ripley (Jul 6, 2014)

I can't agree with the comment that the Great Depression conditions were worse than most any situation we could face now. Under the same situation I believe it would be FAR worse. Back then you had a lot less people, plus many of them, unlike today, were part of an era that grew up knowing how to deal with harsher conditions. A large segment of Americans today wouldn't know how to survive without a society and government that supports them. When the food stamp program and other government programs collapse, there will be blood in the streets. All you really have to do is look at how some people behave today in relatively normal times to understand just how bad it would be. Far as the grid going down I agree with what has already been said, it all depends. But if it ever got bad enough how many of those workers would decide to stay home and protect their families rather than go to work?


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

I agree with Seneca's answer.
Short answer is yes, eventually, But it would be a while and sporadic as different areas as different power company employees disappeared when the pay stopped.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

The best place to answer this question is the 3rd world. Many of those nations exist in a condition that we westerners would consider an apocalyptic scenario.

And the answer is: Yes! In those little piss-soaked nations the utilities and infrastructure are badly broken, as well as archaic and corrupt. 

So if the dollar crashed then yes, absolutely, thee grid could become unreliable.

But I should also mention that in these 3rd world nations there are many who find ways to provide their own energy. You've heard of micro-breweries, try to imagine micro-power companies, like a neighbor who sells black market electricity. Apocalyptic scenarios make for some interesting entrepreneurial opportunities.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

just watch how it IS happening in Venezuela.... and take notes


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

Joe Smith said:


> My opinion is no, the grid will not go down. Why? Based on what I've studied of history, and one of my great interests , the Great Depression, conditions were far worse than most any situation we could face now and the grid, did not disappear..


the questions was "When the dollar finally collapses and the food riots start and stuff starts getting ugly will it affect the grid? "

it was NOT FAR WORSE..back then they had morals and a good compass to guide them.. today, within 72 hours of a disaster people are stealing, hell they kill people for a sale of cheap Chinese stuff at walmart

Now under those conditions, do you think Joe Smith is going to leave his family unprotected and walk or ride a bike 10 miles into town in order to toss coal into a hopper for 8 hours


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

Ralph Rotten said:


> micro-breweries - - - Apocalyptic scenarios make for some interesting entrepreneurial opportunities.


good idea


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

C.L.Ripley said:


> I can't agree with the comment that the Great Depression conditions were worse than most any situation we could face now.


Yeah i agree that comment is big time wishful thinking, i don't think many would agree with it. It's crazy how the further technology advances the more hopeless the general population would be surviving on their own. Man can we even survive without smartphones? 21st century America might be the worst populous in all world history at survival skills, starting with myself.


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

Joe Smith said:


> Yes there will always be millionaires in their mansions, and the electric company will not close.


Supply Chain failure does not care if you are rich or poor.. when the coal and gas stop... electric will stop


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

When the grid goes out ,, lock & load ,, you go in protection mode ,, you protect what you have . That's why we prepp.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

No one knows for certain. Rest assured there will be a power center somewhere to run the fema camps etc.


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

TacticalCanuck said:


> No one knows for certain. Rest assured there will be a power center somewhere to run the fema camps etc.


Every hear about this thing called a generator??? If things are as bad as OP suggests.. there will be no central power...the operators will be in the FEMA camp with the rest of the blue collar workers


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

Slippy's-Attorney said:


> Every hear about this thing called a generator??? If things are as bad as OP suggests.. there will be no central power...the operators will be in the FEMA camp with the rest of the blue collar workers


Gas storage requires a lot of space. In a community that generator will be easily found if its on. I know some are "quieter" than others but people will here it in adjacent back yards.

I went with solar. May not run my stove but i can cook many other ways. May not provide a fridge but i habe natual freezing 4-5 months a year.

There are ways


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

TacticalCanuck said:


> Gas storage requires a lot of space. In a community that generator will be easily found if its on. I know some are "quieter" than others but people will here it in adjacent back yards.
> 
> I went with solar. May not run my stove but i can cook many other ways. May not provide a fridge but i habe natual freezing 4-5 months a year.
> 
> There are ways


I was talking about FEMA having generators


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

Slippy's-Attorney said:


> I was talking about FEMA having generators


For sure they will. But i figure those places will run on a smaller localized version of the grid that would be hard to tap into.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

The power grid and the economy are so closely intertwined that if one is damaged, the other is damaged. It cuts both ways, a sure sign that the SHTF is the government stepping in declaring martial law and nationalizing utilities, including the internet.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

Seneca said:


> The power grid and the economy are so closely intertwined that if one is damaged, the other is damaged. It cuts both ways, a sure sign that the SHTF is the government stepping in declaring martial law and nationalizing utilities, including the internet.


The loss of control will be a slow spiral i think and we are already starting, in the outter edges of the whirlpool if you will. A chance to get out maybe but its not looking good.


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

what to see how things go when the government takes over power companies.... look at Venezuela


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

TacticalCanuck said:


> I went with solar. May not run my stove but i can cook many other ways. May not provide a fridge but i habe natual freezing 4-5 months a year.
> 
> There are ways


Won't run your fridge? Is it a very small set up? Yeah solar is so expensive, batteries are the weak link of technology. At one point I was excited about the Lifepo4 batteries, OMG the prices are insane. If the prices of Lifep04s kept going down like the prices of TVs I wonder how many more people would have solar. Battery technology is garbage.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> Won't run your fridge? Is it a very small set up? Yeah solar is so expensive, batteries are the weak link of technology. At one point I was excited about the Lifepo4 batteries, OMG the prices are insane. If the prices of Lifep04s kept going down like the prices of TVs I wonder how many more people would have solar. Battery technology is garbage.


Direct sun to device and sun to battery. Those batteries can charge a gps phone iPod radio whatever a few times each. Low tech but reliable and sustainable and I use it today for recreational camping so I know it's limits. I can keep a family of 4 going indefinitely with a radio shortwave a scanner 2 cell phones 4 2 way radios kobo readers and yes even the Nintendo ds


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

The grid for all it's benefits is both complex and fragile, it requires a lot of people with expertise working behind the scenes to keep it up and running smoothly. One of the things that got me into prepping was the notion of just how quickly it could all go away.


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## Montana living (Mar 31, 2016)

Who cares I have Solar power & Plenty of Ammo.


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## Montana living (Mar 31, 2016)

Look at Rolls Surrette Batteries, Yea they cost more than Walmart Batteries but have a 15 year life. Good solar panels and charge controller you are set. after that get a good Pure Sine inverter to keep from killing your phone & Computer Batteries. I live 100% off grid other than my On Demand Propane Water heater, Propane Stove & Frige. Wood stove for heat, some cooking and keeping the coffee hot.


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## Montana living (Mar 31, 2016)

I t really amazes me the amount of Sheeple that rely 100% on the Govt and the power company. Ive been off grid since 2002,


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## Free (Mar 13, 2016)

If it gets really bad then yes just about everything will be down. If it's comparable to the depression or a little worse then the "grid" would be for the most part ok. I work for an electric utility that generates around 4,000 megawatts and maintains about 1000 miles of transmission lines and countless miles of distribution. The company as a whole is 1500 employees and of that only about 600 are what you call hands on the system guys like lineman, operators, dispatchers and so forth. We have emergency plans of operating our system with as little as 200 people before things start to get shaky. We keep 90 days of solid fuel on site but our gas units would be at the mercy of the pipeline operators. There would be a lot of industry cut off of gas long before they would let generation run dry.
Me personally, I would rather loose electricity than water.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Free said:


> If it gets really bad then yes just about everything will be down. If it's comparable to the depression or a little worse then the "grid" would be for the most part ok. I work for an electric utility that generates around 4,000 megawatts and maintains about 1000 miles of transmission lines and countless miles of distribution. The company as a whole is 1500 employees and of that only about 600 are what you call hands on the system guys like lineman, operators, dispatchers and so forth. We have emergency plans of operating our system with as little as 200 people before things start to get shaky. We keep 90 days of solid fuel on site but our gas units would be at the mercy of the pipeline operators. There would be a lot of industry cut off of gas long before they would let generation run dry.
> Me personally, I would rather loose electricity than water.


electricity brings the water.... unless you have an artesian well...


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Free said:


> Me personally, I would rather loose electricity than water.


You're right water's more important but I'd rather loose water than electricity because water is a way less expensive problem to solve.

...well actually, that's assuming your heat isn't reliant on electricity and you don't live in a cold area


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## Free (Mar 13, 2016)

Our water district has natural gas powered backup power and I have a spring fed stream about 200 yards from the house. Before we had the backup pumps we would loose water after major storms and lugging water was a PITA.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> You're right water's more important but I'd rather loose water than electricity because water is a way less expensive problem to solve.
> 
> ...well actually, that's assuming your heat isn't reliant on electricity and you don't live in a cold area


Not me I would rather loose electricity. Lots of ways to stay warm,, You die without water (just a few days)


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

I say i'd rather lose water because I have that base covered for only a couple thousand dollars for like 3 years worth, drinking & cooking water that is. Compare that to how much it would cost to replace grid electricity for 3 years! Running a generator for 3 years (the fuel, the maintenance, etc)...and solar/wind is even more expensive.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

point is.. you can live without electricity..... people have done it for eons!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

No Electric will be easy.... We heat with wood, we can cook with wood... go to bed early wake up early...

with no electric...we will be tired by end of day.


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## Grinch (Jan 3, 2016)

Ralph Rotten said:


> The best place to answer this question is the 3rd world. Many of those nations exist in a condition that we westerners would consider an apocalyptic scenario.
> 
> And the answer is: Yes! In those little piss-soaked nations the utilities and infrastructure are badly broken, as well as archaic and corrupt.
> 
> ...


If the US dollar was to collapse given the debt we owe I highly doubt there would be anything short of utter chaos in the U.S, I mean not like 3rd world wherever type disaster I'm talking people 12 people getting murdered in the wal-mart parking lot for a box of crushed up ritz crackers. Like Slippy's attorney mentioned within 72 hours people start to freak out, there's going to be mass murder. There won't be any civilities during this time.

We as Americans depend too heavily on the value of the dollar, sure other countries that are 3rd world have grown used to a near nuclear waste-land type environment, why ? Because they have never been able to take say an eighth of their minimum wage and buy a cheeseburger with it. Not to be harsh here but rats don't lose their minds when they get kicked out of the dump and are forced to live in the sewers, now kings would cut one another's throats if forced to go live in a ramshackle shed. I mean Joe-Bagofdonuts down the street is going to come out with his AK when the water gets shut off, why ? Because he's not used to not having running CLEAN water coming from his sink. An economic collapse would cause the entire grid to be wiped out.


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## Draq wraith (Oct 25, 2015)

budgetprepp-n said:


> When the dollar finally collapses and the food riots start and stuff starts getting ugly will it affect the grid?


Most certainly all you have to do is read up on Venezuela as it is happening now.
They are in a severe drought the economy which was based on oil collapsed again, and the government has reduced the number of workdays to two to conserve electricity. Food is very perishable.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

I don't know if the grid will go down...but I prep for it as a possibility! 

You'll need: 
light (candles, oil lamps, lamp oil). 
heat (fireplace, wood stove, cloths, blankets) 
Fire for cooking your food & boiling water. 

Refrigeration is going to be a problem...have alot of salt on hand & build a smoker.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Ronaldinyo said:


> I don't know if the grid will go down...but I prep for it as a possibility!
> 
> You'll need:
> light (candles, oil lamps, lamp oil).
> heat (fireplace, *WOOD STOVE*, cloths, blankets)





Ronaldinyo said:


> Fire for cooking your food & boiling water.


ALSO accomplished by a wood stove. DAMN i friggin want a wood stove so bad!!! I already know who I would buy off of I really like the reviews I see for Woodstock Soapstone Company. Do you guys suggest that I check out another company as well? Who makes the best quality stoves??


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> No Electric will be easy.... We heat with wood, we can cook with wood... go to bed early wake up early...
> 
> with no electric...we will be tired by end of day.


Maine Marine,,,, You have no solar?


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

I want a woodstove as well (I have a fireplace)...but the chimney is more expensive than the stove.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> When the dollar finally collapses and the food riots start and stuff starts getting ugly will it affect the grid?


Speculation here.

Physical activities like hurricanes, earthquakes, ternaders (tornados for you people with paved driveways) all have a sudden and immediate impact on the grid. There one minute - gone the next.

But an economic collapse cause a situation where money is tight and things get expensive real quick and the grid decays. I think after a long term global economic failure it may take 10 to 15 years for the US Grid to look like the Haitian Grid.

Without people paying, there is no income to support and maintain the grid. Parts wear out or become damaged and slowly the super redundant grid becomes more susceptible to risk. In some places people may even contribute to the grid failure by stealing parts of it (copper) to sell for scrap to feed their families. So yes, our fiscal health as a nation has a lot to do with our grid health but if the banks run out of other peoples money tomorrow, then the power plants won't just shut off immediately.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

If the grid goes down long term, water will be next. 

They use pumps that run on ELECTRICITY to pump the water up into the water towers...Once the towers run dry, no more water will be flowing out of your taps. 

The water treatment plants also depend on electricity and chemicals being delivered regularly.


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