# Malaysian 777 reported down MAS flgiht 17



## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Malaysian 777 reported to have crashed in Ukraine. CNN, FOX are
reporting this now. FOX had a few distant pictures and whatever it was 
producing a huge smoke plume. Not good! Shot down?


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

I want to know how many stupid Americans are going to go to the Ukraine for a vacation and then cry because they got hurt / arrested for doing something stupid and then the parents of said stupid people complains for the American government to help they're loved ones. Not even maybe, let the stupid American rot in a foreign country, the price of being stupid can be very high!


----------



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm sorry, but was the Jet Route over Syria busy??? Why would you even consider a flight over a war zone???


----------



## Sharkbait (Feb 9, 2014)

They are now reporting that it was most likely shot down by a BUK Russian high altitude surface to air missile.The plane fell to the ground in pieces.It did not crash.295 reported dead.

This could get quite interesting as we increased sanctions on Russia's non-compliance with the UK,plus a Ukraine military jet was also shot down,all just less the last 24 hours.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

IMO, it's not our fight and the US will only loose if America gets involved. American soldier's lives and and American money will be wasted by nobama and the Federal government sticking our noses where it doesn't belong. It's they're civil war we have no skin in this game.


----------



## omegabrock (Jun 16, 2014)

do they know definitively if this is not the 'missing' plane?


----------



## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Meanwhile Benjamin and Judah have begun a major operation into the Gaza Strip as of 03:35 EDT


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

omegabrock said:


> do they know definitively if this is not the 'missing' plane?


This one took off from Amsterdam. So...
I heard that the Air Traffic Control in the Ukraine said they lost radio contact with the aircraft for some time before it went down. Could create all sorts of scenarios with that.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

So the US Intelligence service has confirmed it was a missile and now Ukrainian gov has recording of Russian GRU officers saying, OPPS." I wonder what Obummer is going to do, stop the export of Coke to Russia.


----------



## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

No americans were aboard. Still sucks though.


----------



## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

9 Brits were known to be on the plane, along with 105 Dutch who were on the way to a conference, 27 Aussies and 80 children.


----------



## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

I could be wrong, but going on what i've seen in news snippets so far, it looks like the rebel SAM operators goofed bigtime and made a genuine mistake.
Putin gave them the launcher to defend themselves against Ukrainian fighter-bombers, but didn't give them enough training, and if you give sophisticated weapon systems to monkeys you're just asking for trouble.
I gather there was supposed to be a designated "safe corridor" for airliners through the war zone, and that's just asking for trouble too, because airliners should be routed AROUND war zones!
Nevertheless,the plane should have been relatively safe at over 30,000 feet, because Ukrainian fighter-bombers come in much lower than that and the SAM operators should have known it, but maybe they panicked and/or misread the altitude readout on the SAM radar, or even accidentally pressed the 'fire' button..









LiveLeak.com - Ukraine: *VERY GRAPHIC* MH17 crash site- charred bodies lie among burning debris

PS- I see that airlines are now going to re-route their airliners around the war zone which they should have done in the first place! I hope the relatives of the victims sue the socks off the airline.
Obviously, the penny-pinching airline didn't want to re-route because it would have added a few more pennies to the fuel bill, that's always been typical of airlines, it takes a crash or an incident like this before they'll take action and introduce safeguards, there's even a term for it in the industry- "tombstone technology"


----------



## shootbrownelk (Jul 9, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> No americans were aboard. Still sucks though.


 Smokin, they're saying now that perhaps 29 americans were aboard. O'bummer doesn't give a rat's ass. He's out raising money!


----------



## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

shootbrownelk said:


> Smokin, they're saying now that perhaps 29 americans were aboard. O'bummer doesn't give a rat's ass. He's out raising money!


It depends on your sources. No Americans were aboard.


----------



## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

PS- Speaking of Ukrainian fighter-bombers, this wounded Russian woman and her pal were "collateral damage" when FB's attacked rebel positions in Lugansk a while back, so no wonder the rebel SAM operators have got itchy trigger fingers when their radar detects incoming planes, even airliners.


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I don't know but those clothes look nice for being blown up at 30,000 feet and at 600 mph. Just saying. 
But on a brighter note gas prices are going down a little.


----------



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Reported in the news this morning. Phone intercept between the separatist and Russian intelligence indicate that the separatists shot down the plane.


----------



## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

shootbrownelk said:


> Smokin, they're saying now that perhaps 29 americans were aboard. O'bummer doesn't give a rat's ass. He's out raising money!


29 AUSTRALIANS 
I think 9 from Queensland

Mr Abbott is banging the war drum (locally) I doubt anything will come from it

AIDS experts/researchers were on the plane

claim is a surface to air missile (Sam) @ 3300 ft or 33000 (I can't remember)

underground news sources claim NATO sam (3 hand info)

another Malaysian air plane... can't hide this one

but surprise surprise a plane flying in a war zone gets shot down, and no more #puckfalistine crap on the newswire  good on Malaysian stupidity to allow Israel to do what needed to be done in 2001


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Airline companies are like stupid Americans going to a foreign country that doesn't like Americans, then wonder why they are injured / killed or arrested / kidnapped. Flying a commercial airplane over a war zone is not a good idea, you could get blown out of the sky! Dumb ass airline and dumber passengers. I wonder if future airline and passengers will say "spend the extra money and fly around the war zone"!

And no I don't feel sorry for the dumb people that died, they took a chance and lost.


----------



## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

never a good idea to fly a civilian aircraft over a war zone no matter what altitude its flying at! even some village idiot knows that so I wonder why an educated pilot didn't?? or was he just doing what he was told to by the people who pay his salary?


----------



## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

ekim said:


> And no I don't feel sorry for the dumb people that died, they took a chance and lost.


Wow, aren't you a sweetheart!


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I am sure the pilot or folks at the ticket counter didn't tell the passengers about flying over a war zone.


----------



## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

God Dam shame I say,no matter who died,its a shame...I would like to get my hands on that shmuck that pushed the button and his 1st in command.plane must be full of spies,because its over our airspace....BULLSHIT!.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Mish said:


> Wow, aren't you a sweetheart!


No I'm not but you can eat crap and die. You are my first and only one I will ignore.


----------



## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

ekim said:


> No I'm not but you can eat crap and die. You are my first and only one I will ignore.


Suck a dick.


----------



## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

You get on an airplane you don't know what the flight plan or path will be.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

On a more geopolitical note, this is another destabilizing factor in an already loopy world. Taking all things into consideration, I think there is good reason for getting nervous.


----------



## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Denton said:


> On a more geopolitical note, this is another destabilizing factor in an already loopy world. Taking all things into consideration, I think there is good reason for getting nervous.


Amen Brother, I just spent my entire paycheck on more ammo! Knee jerk reaction to some one turning on a fan, but there's too many monkeys around the world.


----------



## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

ekim said:


> Airline companies are like stupid Americans going to a foreign country that doesn't like Americans, then wonder why they are injured / killed or arrested / kidnapped. Flying a commercial airplane over a war zone is not a good idea, you could get blown out of the sky! Dumb ass airline and dumber passengers. I wonder if future airline and passengers will say "spend the extra money and fly around the war zone"!
> *
> And no I don't feel sorry for the dumb people that died, they took a chance and lost*.


So when one of your family members gets blown out of the sky, are you willing to choke on those same words!


----------



## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> You get on an airplane you don't know what the flight plan or path will be.


You can now see the pre-planned path and what your flight flew past 90 days or so. There are several tracking sites now try out FlightAware - Flight Tracker / Flight Status / Flight Tracking
All you need is your airline 3 letter code example DAL 599 Type that in the ID box and you'll get the info on a display screen map.
If you are taking a flight you can usually see 3 hours or more before the flight what the airline dispatcher has filed with air traffic control. This is a cool tool
to see your route and the current weather along and near the route. Here is a link to my home airport showing all flight. Individual flights can be checked on the left side.

Louisville Intl Airport (Louisville, KY) KSDF / SDF Flight Tracker ? FlightAware


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

jro1 said:


> So when one of your family members gets blown out of the sky, are you willing to choke on those same words!


I won't choke, but yes, if they are that stupid to be in a part of the world where there is a war going on and they aren't there fighting then they will suffer from their stupidity and I won't mourn their passing.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jul 8, 2013)

ekim said:


> Airline companies are like stupid Americans going to a foreign country that doesn't like Americans, then wonder why they are injured / killed or arrested / kidnapped. Flying a commercial airplane over a war zone is not a good idea, you could get blown out of the sky! Dumb ass airline and dumber passengers. I wonder if future airline and passengers will say "spend the extra money and fly around the war zone"!
> 
> And no I don't feel sorry for the dumb people that died, they took a chance and lost.


I listened to a news story regarding the flight path. It was not intended to fly over the country however due to bad weather they had to change there flight path. I do wonder if they were flying very high or not? I mean if they were flying 40,000 ft. could they have still been targeted with the low tech weapons they had on the ground?


----------



## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

No such thing as "low tech" now-a-days my friend.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jul 8, 2013)

Smokin04 said:


> No such thing as "low tech" now-a-days my friend.


haha I guess your right! I keep thinking back to old war videos of terrorists with the rockets over there shoulder. That and it's not like an airliner can dodge anything haha sure would make for some upset customers even if they did successfully dodged a ground to air rocket!


----------



## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Some news snippets are saying the airliner was being "escorted" through rebel airspace by two Ukrainian warplanes.
If that's true, the sight of 3 blips on their radar might have panicked the rebel SAM operators into firing at what would have looked like an incoming airstrike.

Also here's a theory of mine- perhaps the "escorts" were not escorts at all but were bombers trying to penetrate rebel airspace using the airliner as a "human shield"..


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Lucky Jim, while your theory is possible, bomber/fighter bombers wouldn't be of much use at 33,000 feet. World War II proved that. From the original Tweets, they screwed the pooch, thinking it was another Ukrainian aircraft.

Ekim, when you fly somewhere, do you call the airline and ask them what route they're flying so you can check to see if you're flying over hostile territory? If the people knew they were putting themselves in harm's way that's one thing. If the airline puts them in harm's way is another.

IMHO Russia is responsible either directly or indirectly if the truth is being told on TV news. And we all know how much we can trust TV to tell the truth as long as it gets ratings.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

paraquack said:


> Lucky Jim, while your theory is possible, bomber/fighter bombers wouldn't be of much use at 33,000 feet. World War II proved that. From the original Tweets, they screwed the pooch, thinking it was another Ukrainian aircraft.
> 
> Ekim, when you fly somewhere, do you call the airline and ask them what route they're flying so you can check to see if you're flying over hostile territory? If the people knew they were putting themselves in harm's way that's one thing. If the airline puts them in harm's way is another.
> 
> IMHO Russia is responsible either directly or indirectly if the truth is being told on TV news. And we all know how much we can trust TV to tell the truth as long as it gets ratings.


I don't fly anywhere any more and I don't go to foreign countries, America has all that I need to see thank you. And if I did go overseas it sure wouldn't be near a country in the middle of a civil war. And knowing what we have learned so far, yes, I would ask the route they intend to fly. Don't think I would ever consider flying on a Malaysan<sp? airlines plane.


----------



## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

paraquack said:


> Lucky Jim, while your theory is possible, bomber/fighter bombers wouldn't be of much use at 33,000 feet..


Yeah, tactical bombers usually come in much lower than that for better accuracy, for example the standard Ukrainian Su-25 close support aircraft can only get up to about 16,000 feet, but they've also got Mig-29's (multirole) and Su-24's (tactical bomber) which can both get up to well over 30,000 ft and could have been using the airliner as a "human shield" to penetrate rebel airspace..


----------



## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

I don't travel abroad, haven't since 1977 when I went to Canada, I don't even have a passport, England has everything I want.


----------



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I doubt Malaysia air is booking many passengers. I don't know which incident is worse. Not knowing what happened to loved ones as with the Malaysian air liner that disappeared over the Indian ocean, or knowing loved ones died a horrific death from being shot down with a missile. Both involving the same carrier. What are the odds? 
It looks as if they are now routing air traffic around was zones. Sadly it appears to have taken a horrific incident such as this to bring that about.


----------



## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

As part of my job I went to countries and parts of countries others feared to go. I was well paid for it. I went to Germany several years ago. I was already retired then. I like England best. I considered buying a second home there before buying at the beach. I refuse to buy something that I do not own the footprint at a minimum.

It never crosses my mind to be fearful. That is not to say I'm brave. There is a difference.

I think if I were on that plane I would expect my country to get retribution very quickly. I would expect that regardless of my citizenship.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Not knowing the fate of a loved one would be worse than death. Nothing ever heals. Moving forward makes loved ones feel guilty. A quagmire.


----------



## lancestar2 (Jul 8, 2013)

PalmettoTree said:


> As part of my job I went to countries and parts of countries others feared to go. I was well paid for it. I went to Germany several years ago. I was already retired then. I like England best. I considered buying a second home there before buying at the beach. I refuse to buy something that I do not own the footprint at a minimum.
> 
> It never crosses my mind to be fearful. That is not to say I'm brave. There is a difference.
> 
> I think if I were on that plane I would expect my country to get retribution very quickly. I would expect that regardless of my citizenship.


I would hope some retribution would be inorder however I'm not sure what an Malaysian army could do.. I thought they were already rerouting air traffic! Guess not all of them pretty sad to see that happen hope they are also rerouting air traffic from Gaza too... though it's much smaller so it would be less costly anyways.


----------



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Denton said:


> Not knowing the fate of a loved one would be worse than death. Nothing ever heals. Moving forward makes loved ones feel guilty. A quagmire.


I believe you are right, and yet knowing loved ones died a horrible senseless death that could have easily been avoided, makes moving forward a tough thing to do. I honestly believe the governments involved in this will sweep it under the rug and move on far too quickly and that those responsible for so much suffering will not be held accountable.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Obama has been pointing his finger and his phone and pen are in his pocket Russia better take notice.


----------



## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

Cameron and Merkel are talking Sanctions but there isn't a hell of a lot they can do without harming our respective economies.


----------



## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Putin should go into 'damage limitation mode' and come clean by admitting he supplied SAMS to the separatists so they could defend themselves.
He should then hold up a photo of that civilian woman who's had her legs blown off by a Ukrainian aistrike (on page2 of this thread) and say something like- "This is why they need SAMS", and world opinion would possibly sway a little in his favour.

PS- the Ukrainians have been flying troops into the separatist area in big transport planes, so maybe the SAM operators mistook the airliner for one of them.
Putin's being too quiet about the whole thing at the moment, so people naturally think he's got something to hide.


----------



## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

For some reason, I'm reminded of the lucitania(sp?)

Could both planes have been carrying a certain type of "cargo" not just passengers? 

Hmm


----------



## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Seneca said:


> I believe you are right, and yet knowing loved ones died a horrible senseless death that could have easily been avoided, makes moving forward a tough thing to do. I honestly believe the governments involved in this will sweep it under the rug and move on far too quickly and that those responsible for so much suffering will not be held accountable.


I just heard that the administration is saying there is no evidence pointing at Russia in the shoot down of this plane. Why would anyone think that Russian sponsored/equipped/trained fighters who are trying to seize part of a country and join the country of Russia would use a Russian made SA-11 missile to shoot down a plane? It's not like they have shot down any other planes over this area. No wait, yeah they did.


----------

