# A Question about Faith and Israel and Russia



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I heard a murmur about this, . . . wanted to kick it up for discussion:

1. Vladimer Putin is a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian ( https://www.economist.com/europe/2018/02/03/vladimir-putin-embraces-the-russian-church )

2. Putin and Trump agreed on one thing for sure, . . . the protection of Israel's sovereign borders and people.

Could it just be that this is the forerunner to the "7 year peace agreement" that brings on the end of the world???

Could it be that Putin heard God's word that says "Those that bless Israel, I (God) will bless, . . . those that curse Israel, I (God) will curse"???

I'm sitting here with a smirk on my face because I'm just beginning to believe this is looking to be the case.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Hmmm …. don't leave me hanging here.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

You are much more knowledgeable about the bible than myself.
And I am very interested in your opinion on this.

Myself, even though I was raised in The Word, and am 70 years old, I still consider myself a baby Christian.


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

dwight55 said:


> I heard a murmur about this, . . . wanted to kick it up for discussion:
> 
> 1. Vladimer Putin is a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian ( https://www.economist.com/europe/2018/02/03/vladimir-putin-embraces-the-russian-church )
> 
> ...


I'm thinking that Israel is more of a reference to a people than a place.


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

The Resister said:


> I'm thinking that Israel is more of a reference to a people than a place.


Can't think, you have to quote scripture.

Just make sure you are using an older Bible. Apparently some of the new Bibles even the King James version they are changing the wording. things that Christ spoke that should be in letter red have been either change or totally erased.

I saw a YouTube video where the guy went verse by verse and the deletions or changes and I compared it with my Bible and he was right on the spot.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> You are much more knowledgeable about the bible than myself.
> And I am very interested in your opinion on this.
> 
> Myself, even though I was raised in The Word, and am 70 years old, I still consider myself a baby Christian.


You can never be too old to be a baby Christian. Two old is 6 feet down and no turning back.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Hope thats right. Most of the Orthodox type European "Christians" I have been around..which dont total many...seem to not like Jews too good. Hopefully Pooty Poot loves them a lot..which dont seem very likely..but a person just never knows. Still trying to figure out how Hitler could murder so many of them in a country packed to the gills with Catholics and Lutherans. Any clues on that? Who has heard of replacement theology? 
https://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

That's my whole problem with religion. Which bible or version of said bible are you basing your faith in?? Don't forget all the books of said bible that have been removed over the course of history. To get to whatever the church wants you to believe at this point.

With this in mind how does this mean the end of the world will be coming anytime soon?? Just asking, not trying to start a big fight.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well I feels your pain. If a person cant bring themselves to trust the veracity of the Bible..guess there is no hope for them to expect to gain eternal life. Its way too sad.


----------



## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

Sadly you could look upon it as Putin playing trump on that topic for what difference does it make if putin says he supports Israel when he wouldn’t stop Syria from crushing Israel if they could.


----------



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> I heard a murmur about this, . . . wanted to kick it up for discussion:
> 
> 1. Vladimer Putin is a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian ( https://www.economist.com/europe/2018/02/03/vladimir-putin-embraces-the-russian-church )
> 
> ...


I believe Russia's been chosen by God and has a pivotal role to play in the days ahead. How this will come about or why Russia was chosen I can't tell you, but it's all part of the Fatima prophecies that Russia will be converted and Our Ladie's Immaculate Heart will triumph.


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Can't think, you have to quote scripture.
> 
> Just make sure you are using an older Bible. Apparently some of the new Bibles even the King James version they are changing the wording. things that Christ spoke that should be in letter red have been either change or totally erased.
> 
> ...


The AKJV is probably the easiest to double check along with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible since the AKJV is translated from the Greek and Hebrew with many tools to double check for errors.

In 1516, IIRC, Erasmus published his Greek and Latin version of the New Testament. This one is probably one of the more error free translations. It contains errors, but fewer than the AKJV.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

stowlin said:


> Sadly you could look upon it as Putin playing trump on that topic for what difference does it make if putin says he supports Israel when he wouldn't stop Syria from crushing Israel if they could.


I don't think there is any danger of Syria crushing Israel, . . . Syrian ********* only know the tactics of "overwhelm with artillery, tanks, then bodies", . . . which is an all too easily defeated strategy.

Next to the US (possibly they are even-Steven) the IDF is the best trained and uses some of the best tactics of any army in the world. Their people are dedicated, motivated, trained, and will do the job. Syrians are just bodies with AK's.

But actually, . . . I am very excited about this new "wrinkle" in the battle lines being drawn there. Russia will not of course, send troops to the area to defend Israeli borders and soil, . . . but he seems that he will dedicate material resources, . . . and political blustering (for what that is worth), . . .

He also may be "playing" Trump, . . . one never knows, . . . but I'm just about inclined to give him the benefit of an "atta boy" for this little bump on the geopolitical stage.

This is one article that got me to thinking hard about this:

https://www.debka.com/secret-helsin...-role-along-syrias-israeli-jordanian-borders/

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> I don't think there is any danger of Syria crushing Israel, . . . Syrian ********* only know the tactics of "overwhelm with artillery, tanks, then bodies", . . . which is an all too easily defeated strategy.
> 
> Next to the US (possibly they are even-Steven) the IDF is the best trained and uses some of the best tactics of any army in the world. Their people are dedicated, motivated, trained, and will do the job. Syrians are just bodies with AK's.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it makes me hopeful because the mainstream media and Dems went into spasms over that meeting between Trump and Putin.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

We look at the scene through Cold War tinted glasses, but the M.E. Christians have a different way of looking at it, according to Walid Shoebat. He suggests the Bad Guy is Turkey. There is good reason to believe this, as Turkey is abandoning its secular form of government under Erdogan's rule, and Erdogan is taking it to the hardline Islamic extreme.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Resister said:


> The AKJV is probably the easiest to double check along with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible since the AKJV is translated from the Greek and Hebrew with many tools to double check for errors.
> 
> In 1516, IIRC, Erasmus published his Greek and Latin version of the New Testament. This one is probably one of the more error free translations. It contains errors, but fewer than the AKJV.


I've enjoyed surveying the Geneva Bible here lately. Its the worlds first study Bible. It tells you what the Lord has to say..then it gives an opinion from a smart guy as to what it means. It was published in 1599 prior to the KJV by forty years or so and with not as much input from the Pope. Its commonly called the Breeches Bible cause in Genesis it says Adam and Even made themselves Breeches out of fig leaves as opposed to Aprons in the KJV. 
https://www.biblegateway.com/versions/1599-Geneva-Bible-GNV/


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> I heard a murmur about this, . . . wanted to kick it up for discussion:
> 
> 1. Vladimer Putin is a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian ( https://www.economist.com/europe/2018/02/03/vladimir-putin-embraces-the-russian-church )
> 
> ...


Doesn't the Tsar have to be a Russian Orthodox Catholic??


----------



## allen530 (May 6, 2018)

The Resister said:


> I'm thinking that Israel is more of a reference to a people than a place.


I believe it is the land because God gave it to the Israelites because he made a promise to Abraham Isaac and Jacob to bring them into a promised land. There is no other sliver of land that has been fought over for thousands of years. Just my thoughts. Have a blessed evening!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Not anything I'd bother prepping for.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

allen530 said:


> I believe it is the land because God gave it to the Israelites because he made a promise to Abraham Isaac and Jacob to bring them into a promised land. There is no other sliver of land that has been fought over for thousands of years. Just my thoughts. Have a blessed evening!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Amen! Preach on Brother. Heard a famous TV preacher..forget who right now..say.."All the blessings of the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants have now been bestowed on Christians also..except..the right to possess the Holy Land. That is reserved strictly for the Jews to call home." Paraphrasing and in a nutshell. Sounded sorta plausible to me but my wife argues with me about it. What do you think?


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

allen530 said:


> There is no other sliver of land that has been fought over for thousands of years.


The mind boggles when you consider that the fate of that one sliver of land is one of the _smaller_ problems caused by religion.


----------



## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> The mind boggles when you consider that the fate of that one sliver of land is one of the _smaller_ problems caused by religion.


Please go drown in your own diarrhea..


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

allen530 said:


> I believe it is the land because God gave it to the Israelites because he made a promise to Abraham Isaac and Jacob to bring them into a promised land. There is no other sliver of land that has been fought over for thousands of years. Just my thoughts. Have a blessed evening!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He promised the Israelites that they would own the land forever. He did not say that land would be the promised land.

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/winthrop.htm

Also check these links out:

http://www.kimmillerconcernedchristians.com/Unsealings/1425.pdf

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/explanation/puritans.html

Massachusetts Bay - "The City Upon a Hill" [ushistory.org]

New Jerusalem | Religion-wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

http://usa-the-republic.com/sheldon emry/old jerusalem not new jerusalem.html


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> He promised the Israelites that they would own the land forever. He did not say that land would be the promised land.
> 
> https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/winthrop.htm
> 
> ...


Ha! Personally, I don't have to click on any of the links as I can read the Bible for myself. I am aware of the blood covenant between God and Abraham. More importantly, I am able to read the prophesies and am able to understand where is going to be the center of an upcoming conflict and exactly why.
Jerusalem is the center of it, geographically.


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Denton said:


> Ha! Personally, I don't have to click on any of the links as I can read the Bible for myself. I am aware of the blood covenant between God and Abraham. More importantly, I am able to read the prophesies and am able to understand where is going to be the center of an upcoming conflict and exactly why.
> Jerusalem is the center of it, geographically.


It's still just a place and there is NO promise that it will be the New Jerusalem prophesied about in the Bible. Our forefathers thought that way and look at the fact they created the greatest nation in the annals of history. We are the only nation on the planet that acknowledges *unalienable* Rights and has a Constitution guaranteeing people that those Rights are protected from the government. Insuring that the guarantee is kept is up to people like you and I.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Amen! Preach on Brother. Heard a famous TV preacher..forget who right now..say.."All the blessings of the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants have now been bestowed on Christians also..except..the right to possess the Holy Land. That is reserved strictly for the Jews to call home." Paraphrasing and in a nutshell. Sounded sorta plausible to me but my wife argues with me about it. What do you think?


The "great divide" is not over IF there is an Abrahamic covenant, . . . or Davidic covenant, . . . but rather _to whom it applies_.

The Davidic is later, . . . so if we determine to whom the Abrahamic pertains, . . . we have a done deal.

First off, . . . Abraham had a number of sons, . . . and the covenant MUST BE made concerning ONE of them, . . . that is Bible 101. All but the first two sons were basically cut out of any covenant inheritance by Abraham himself, . . . by sending them away.

The sons left were Isaac and Ishmael. Ishmael was the elder sons by some 14 or so years.

Jews and (most) Christians, . . . disregard Ishmael (many, many Biblical references to this), . . . on the grounds he was a son of a slave, a concubine, . . . NOT OF his wife, Sarah.

Isaac was the son of his wife Sarah, . . . and according to the Bible, . . . was THE SON of the Abrahamic covenant.

Moslems and a few non-descript Christians argue that Ishmael should have received the Abrahamic covenant.

The Jews, . . . have from what I understand, . . . unbroken chains of geneological references in their family trees that connect them in an unbroken line back to old Abraham.

The Arabs, Palestinians, and the rest of the moslems in the area, . . . are simply a bunch of mutt bred (and in many cases, seriously INBRED ) folks who happened to be living around the area.

When the "world" set aside a portion of land for Jews to return to in 1948, those who belonged to the Bible based Abrahamic covenant were allowed to "come home".

God has blessed those people beyond the wildest dreams of the originators of the idea. Many, many folks who visit there come back with a profound understanding and visual understanding of the blessings God has bestowed upon the people there, . . . obviously, those of His covenant with Abraham.

Surrounding them are those of the Moslem understanding, . . . living in squalor, filth, and basically subsisting on welfare handouts from Israel, the US, the UN, and the neighboring Moslem nations who harbor a detest for Israel.

AND, . . . it is all too easy to see who is being blessed by God, . . . and who is a hanger on. The land of the Israelites has been blessed to grow crops beyond the wildest dreams of those living there 80, 90, or 100 years ago. The "green" of the Israelite crops goes up to a line in the sand where the mutts take over, . . . and there are no crops, no trees, nothing but sand, rocks, lizards, and hatred.

Yes, . . . God has blessed the Abrahamic covenant, . . . through Isaac, . . . and now down to the Israelites, . . . as His chosen people. Christians, under the New Testament Covenant, are His spiritual people, . . . Jews under the Abrahamic covenant, . . . are His chosen natural people.

As I pointed out in the OP, . . . I truly hope Putin understands this, . . . and steps into the camp that blesses the land of Israel, . . . it would certainly be to the benefit of Russia for him to do so.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> It's still just a place and there is NO promise that it will be the New Jerusalem prophesied about in the Bible. Our forefathers thought that way and look at the fact they created the greatest nation in the annals of history. We are the only nation on the planet that acknowledges *unalienable* Rights and has a Constitution guaranteeing people that those Rights are protected from the government. Insuring that the guarantee is kept is up to people like you and I.


Huh? Looks like you are mixing man and God, or something. Are you suggesting America is the real Israel?


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Denton said:


> Huh? Looks like you are mixing man and God, or something. Are you suggesting America is the real Israel?


According to the Bible and many authorities, it is the New Jerusalem. Are you just wanting to argue about it *OR* would you rather consult the links?

I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but the United States was founded by a people who believed that they were the Israelites and America is the New Jerusalem. It is a *fact* of which I have no control over. Don't argue with me; I'm just the messenger and I don't believe in arguing over what I do and do not believe. It is NOT Christian to do so.

I can tell you that the United States Supreme Court said a woman has a right to an abortion. Whether I believe that the high Court is right is highly disputable. So, don't try to go down that rabbit hole with me. I have copies of well over 200 sermons preached during the founding era, by various ministers and America was founded and built on the premise that we are the New Jerusalem. *IN MY OPINION*, that presupposition is what made America great. The links will speak for themselves.


----------



## allen530 (May 6, 2018)

The Resister said:


> According to the Bible and many authorities, it is the New Jerusalem. Are you just wanting to argue about it *OR* would you rather consult the links?
> 
> I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but the United States was founded by a people who believed that they were the Israelites and America is the New Jerusalem. It is a *fact* of which I have no control over. Don't argue with me; I'm just the messenger and I don't believe in arguing over what I do and do not believe. It is NOT Christian to do so.
> 
> I can tell you that the United States Supreme Court said a woman has a right to an abortion. Whether I believe that the high Court is right is highly disputable. So, don't try to go down that rabbit hole with me. I have copies of well over 200 sermons preached during the founding era, by various ministers and America was founded and built on the premise that we are the New Jerusalem. *IN MY OPINION*, that presupposition is what made America great. The links will speak for themselves.


Sounds like Replacement theology, what man believes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> According to the Bible and many authorities, it is the New Jerusalem. Are you just wanting to argue about it *OR* would you rather consult the links?
> 
> I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but the United States was founded by a people who believed that they were the Israelites and America is the New Jerusalem. It is a *fact* of which I have no control over. Don't argue with me; I'm just the messenger and I don't believe in arguing over what I do and do not believe. It is NOT Christian to do so.
> 
> I can tell you that the United States Supreme Court said a woman has a right to an abortion. Whether I believe that the high Court is right is highly disputable. So, don't try to go down that rabbit hole with me. I have copies of well over 200 sermons preached during the founding era, by various ministers and America was founded and built on the premise that we are the New Jerusalem. *IN MY OPINION*, that presupposition is what made America great. The links will speak for themselves.


Thanks for clarifying the nature of the links. I'm glad I didn't waste my time.

Argue with you? Why would I waste my time arguing with someone who simply read other people's anti-Biblical opinions? I'll stick to what the Bible says.

I'm not sure what Roe-v-Wade has to do with this and I don't care. I'll say this; I'll go down any rabbit hole I think needs exploring and you aren't going to tell me which are off limits.

Jeremiah Write has a few sermons out there, by the way. Is he an authority? He must be an authority as he is a "minister."

When the blind lead the blind, both fall into the ditch. Now, go forth and follow whatever man you feel knows best or supports your view. In the end, you'll learn the truth.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

The "replacement theology" that the US is Israel, . . . or the church is Israel, . . . was drummed up by ministers who did not see the possibility of a future land mass which would be named Israel, . . . which would occupy much of the land mass of the original Israel.

Two points on that idea: 

1) it was a sort of "positive step forward" similar to when Sarah told Abraham to have a child by Hagar, . . . as Sarah did not believe God could intervene and help her to have a child. (And that is THE REASON, . . . HANDS DOWN, . . . ONE AND ONLY that we have the ********* and ************* hollering Allahue Ackbar today.) While good intentioned, . . . it made for much more trouble farther down the road. In the same manner, . . . the replacement theology got the ministers some accolades, pats on the back, and an "A" for effort, . . . but likewise in their short sighted disbelief in what God could do, . . . they invented a replacement for Israel. Unfortunately, their ministerial descendants have not made any concerted effort to disown or disclaim the ignorance and untruth of "replacement theology".

2) it was (and still is) a serious step backward, because it denies the ability of God to do what HE wants to do, . . . it makes what he did (in May of 1948) in reclaiming Israel for His people as a "Meh" event, . . . instead of the rejoicing that should have been going on by the Christian church, . . . including TODAY for the nation of Israel, . . . we have a bunch of Obama-like "apologists" trying to sell books, . . . DVD's, . . . monthly lessons, . . . etc. for their brand of EOTWAWKI theology that either discounts or trashes the actual statements in the Bible.

Truth is, . . . we are two events from the possibility of the EOTWAWKI event: the erection of Israel's "Temple of God" from Revelation 11, . . . and the "man of sin revealed" from 2 Thessalonians 2 and the book of Daniel.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

allen530 said:


> Sounds like Replacement theology, what man believes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's also what the Mormons believe. They believe that New Jerusalem will be built in Missouri,


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

inceptor said:


> It's also what the Mormons believe. They believe that New Jerusalem will be built in Missouri,


Show me. :tango_face_grin:


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

allen530 said:


> Sounds like Replacement theology, what man believes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds like projection on your part.


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

dwight55 said:


> The "replacement theology" that the US is Israel, . . . or the church is Israel, . . . was drummed up by ministers who did not see the possibility of a future land mass which would be named Israel, . . . which would occupy much of the land mass of the original Israel.
> 
> Two points on that idea:
> 
> ...


ROTF LMAO Replacement theology? Obama? Judge not lest that thou be judged.


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

inceptor said:


> It's also what the Mormons believe. They believe that New Jerusalem will be built in Missouri,


That is true - but, many other denominations have believed this for many centuries


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> Show me. :tango_face_grin:


From Wiki



> Discussion
> Tower Hill at Adam-ondi-Ahman, Missouri USA
> 
> In one interpretation, Zion refers to a specific location to which members of the millennial church are to be gathered together to live. Stipulated by what is believed by the Latter-day Saints to be the revelation of Joseph Smith (D&C 57:1-5, LDS Church ed.), this is said to be located in Jackson County, Missouri, and its county seat, Independence. The region of Kansas City Metropolitan Area remains important today in the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) and the Community of Christ, as well as many smaller branches and offshoots of the Latter Day Saint movement, who view it as having a crucial role to play in their Christian Millennialist theology.


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

"_11 The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit.

12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honor is humility.

13 He that answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame to him_." Proverbs 18 :11 thru 14

Thank you for having examined the links left and respecting a point of view other than what you've been programmed to believe.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Resister said:


> "_11 The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit.
> 
> 12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honor is humility.
> 
> ...


Still havent quite figured out the point your making. Mormon apologist maybe? Will agree replacement theology is rampant in a bunch of Christian denominations and has been for a long while. If thats the point..look no further than Methodists..Church of Christ..Episcopals..Catholics..Lutherans and Mormons? lol


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Denton said:


> Thanks for clarifying the nature of the links. I'm glad I didn't waste my time.
> 
> Argue with you? Why would I waste my time arguing with someone who simply read other people's anti-Biblical opinions? I'll stick to what the Bible says.
> 
> ...


See my previous post. The basic point was / is, you judge me and the facts without examining them. I even showed that the Mormons believe in the basic idea, as did the* founders of this country*, that they have a familial link to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel.) The notion that Jews comprise the whole of Israel is simply not biblical; the Muslims came from Ishmael (who descendants were to be as a wild man with their hand against man and every mans hand against them... perpetual warfare among themselves and the biblical Israelites.)

In showing that the belief is much older than the current thinking, it was analogous to Roe v. Wade. At least when I told you that was the law, you didn't judge me for pointing to a well known fact. Like it or not, the belief that America is the New Jerusalem was believed by most of those who were responsible for the founding of this country.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The Resister said:


> "_11 The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit.
> 
> 12 *Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honor is humility.
> *
> ...


And we know what a humble person you are. Humility being one of your strong points. :vs_laugh:


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

bigwheel said:


> Still havent quite figured out the point your making. Mormon apologist maybe? Will agree replacement theology is rampant in a bunch of Christian denominations and has been for a long while. If thats the point..look no further than Methodists..Church of Christ..Episcopals..Catholics..Lutherans and Mormons? lol


I made a simple point that the founders believed the proposition I put forth and it was predicated upon beliefs going back a few centuries ago. Calling something you don't understand some emotion laden buzz word and trying to judge me does not and will not make you right.

Until you've studied all sides of the issue, you are not qualified to judge it. And I'm not getting into a pissing match over the Word of God. None of you on this board has a monopoly on human virtue NOR understanding. Judging me without reading the *facts*, instead of parroting some cow dung that is so fragile it cannot withstand serious scrutiny is not biblical and is wholly unjustifiable.

There is no replacement theology except for the modern churches that teach a message that prohibits society from obeying the Word of God.

"_Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another_" Proverbs 25 : 9

It doesn't say to ignore what you disagree with personally; doesn't say to judge your brother; doesn't say to make idiotic allegations without a knowledge of the relevant facts. It doesn't say to have a popularity vote nor censor people for speaking out. It's easier to believe a lie told a thousand times than a plain and simple truth nobody every heard before. But, it's all good. Since there was not a single question, but mere judgments, you've certainly said more than I can - even in a thousand paragraphs. So I leave you to your discussion and hope that you have enough class to leave me out of it now - as if I'd never posted on this thread. It's a closed discussion and you don't need me. Just show enough class to say no more about me relative to this.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well now the New Jerusalem is very interesting. It will be coming down from Heaven and measures 1500 miles long..wide and high. It has to be a pyramid or a cube..to fit the described dissensions...which do you think? Hal Lindsay says unless God changes up the laws of physics..anything that big will conform itself into a sphere. Most TV preachers seem to think its still under construction..in fact Jesus is busy working on getting it ready for many mansions..aka resting places. Whatcha think? Folks quoting the old Judge not passage usually make me nervous because they are liberals and can only remember that one verse from Sunday School...usually used in the context of excusing some form of sinful conduct..which it not what the passage means at all. Everybody whould do a word search on judge..judgeth..etc. Lot of info about judging in the Book not counting that one..lol. 
1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Resister said:


> I made a simple point that the founders believed the proposition I put forth and it was predicated upon beliefs going back a few centuries ago. Calling something you don't understand some emotion laden buzz word and trying to judge me does not and will not make you right.
> 
> Until you've studied all sides of the issue, you are not qualified to judge it. And I'm not getting into a pissing match over the Word of God. None of you on this board has a monopoly on human virtue NOR understanding. Judging me without reading the *facts*, instead of parroting some cow dung that is so fragile it cannot withstand serious scrutiny is not biblical and is wholly unjustifiable.
> 
> ...


Think I understand where your coming from. Your a nagger. I know about those cause I used to be married to one.


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Mutts?

Okay, dwight, everything I read from you just fell into place.


----------



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Amen! Preach on Brother. Heard a famous TV preacher..forget who right now..say.."All the blessings of the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants have now been bestowed on Christians also..except..the right to possess the Holy Land. That is reserved strictly for the Jews to call home." Paraphrasing and in a nutshell. Sounded sorta plausible to me but my wife argues with me about it. What do you think?


Spot on.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> Mutts?
> 
> Okay, dwight, everything I read from you just fell into place.


Now calm down Jammer, you don't always have to take the mutt thing personal.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Resister said:


> See my previous post. The basic point was / is, you judge me and the facts without examining them. I even showed that the Mormons believe in the basic idea, as did the* founders of this country*, that they have a familial link to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel.) The notion that Jews comprise the whole of Israel is simply not biblical; the Muslims came from Ishmael (who descendants were to be as a wild man with their hand against man and every mans hand against them... perpetual warfare among themselves and the biblical Israelites.)
> 
> In showing that the belief is much older than the current thinking, it was analogous to Roe v. Wade. At least when I told you that was the law, you didn't judge me for pointing to a well known fact. Like it or not, the belief that America is the New Jerusalem was believed by most of those who were responsible for the founding of this country.


Judge you? Don't pretend to be the victim, what say? Of all people, I expect you to read the original text (the Bible). I judge not you but the BS you suppose. That being the case, don't pretend to be a victim.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> Mutts?
> 
> Okay, dwight, everything I read from you just fell into place.


You got a problem with mutts? I'm a mutt. Want to tangle? Want to meet somewhere? I'm feeling frisky. Does the term "mutt" bother you? You too good to be a mutt? The word bother you? Why?


----------



## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

No one is going to overthrow the Jews. Ideology will not be eradicated, therefore Israelis wont be defeated by anyone.
You cant make religions go away unless you eradicate and reducate


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Denton said:


> You got a problem with mutts? I'm a mutt. Want to tangle? Want to meet somewhere? I'm feeling frisky. Does the term "mutt" bother you? You too good to be a mutt? The word bother you? Why?


It's an insult when it's applied to a human being, The basis of the insult is the mixing of races, and the fantasy that there's a "pure" race left. We're all mutts. The people Dwight is referring to are no more mutts than he is.

Dwight knows these things, and the insult is why he chose that word in that sentence. (If you twist the meaning around to anything but an insult, his sentence makes no sense.)

The word gains strength only when used by former oppressor to or about the oppressed. If, for instance, I call you a mutt, all it does is make you frisky.

Take the argument over using that word (and other common words in a similar fashion) up with him, all I did was shine a light on his choice. You understood the issue, you understood my post, and we're talking calmly about it because such language and sentiments are perfectly acceptable on this board.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

The Resister said:


> He promised the Israelites that they would own the land forever. He did not say that land would be the promised land.
> 
> https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/winthrop.htm
> 
> ...


We're talking about a group of bigots that if you didn't buy into their theology you were a heratic and should be burned at the stake. Roger Williams and one of my ancestors - a Quaker - left and set up a place where all religions would be respected. (RI & PP)


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

The Resister said:


> According to the Bible and many authorities, it is the New Jerusalem. Are you just wanting to argue about it *OR* would you rather consult the links?
> 
> I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but the United States was founded by a people who believed that they were the Israelites and America is the New Jerusalem. It is a *fact* of which I have no control over. Don't argue with me; I'm just the messenger and I don't believe in arguing over what I do and do not believe. It is NOT Christian to do so.
> 
> I can tell you that the United States Supreme Court said a woman has a right to an abortion. Whether I believe that the high Court is right is highly disputable. So, don't try to go down that rabbit hole with me. I have copies of well over 200 sermons preached during the founding era, by various ministers and America was founded and built on the premise that we are the New Jerusalem. *IN MY OPINION*, that presupposition is what made America great. The links will speak for themselves.


Sounds like you are a member of the Church of the ORD https://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> It's an insult when it's applied to a human being, The basis of the insult is the mixing of races, and the fantasy that there's a "pure" race left. We're all mutts. The people Dwight is referring to are no more mutts than he is.
> 
> Dwight knows these things, and the insult is why he chose that word in that sentence. (If you twist the meaning around to anything but an insult, his sentence makes no sense.)
> 
> ...


Is mutt worse than zebra? I sometimes use the zebra term and once upon a time I was engaged to a black chick that was pregnant.

You on the left need to stop being Pansy Asses and stop worrying about pointless verbage. If you cannot grow a pair of balls then...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

The only people who think language is harmless are those who have never been harmed by its use.


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> The only people who think language is harmless are those who have never been harmed by its use.


That's a lame reply.

Yeah there is straight out being a dick but come now, there is being a pussy and liberals are hitting that factor more every day.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> It's an insult when it's applied to a human being, The basis of the insult is the mixing of races, and the fantasy that there's a "pure" race left. We're all mutts. The people Dwight is referring to are no more mutts than he is.
> 
> Dwight knows these things, and the insult is why he chose that word in that sentence. (If you twist the meaning around to anything but an insult, his sentence makes no sense.)
> 
> ...


Does a shiny badge come along with being the PC police?

Just curious, and not that I buy your B.S., just who do you think @dwight55 has oppressed?

Glad you picked out the most important part of Dwight's very informative post, though. Keen eye, you have. Go straight to something you could muster up a reason to feign offense.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> The only people who think language is harmless are those who have never been harmed by its use.


Why, just the other day I saw someone get an eye poked out by a noun. It was horrific. I'm just glad it wasn't a verb that was used. Can you imagine the damage a verb could have caused? The Christians and Jews who have been persecuted and slaughtered in the Middle East and even in their own countries in Europe have no idea the damage Dwight inflicted upon the so-called "Palestinians."


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

"Feign"?

Oh, I see. Like you're feigning support for him.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Is mutt worse than zebra? I sometimes use the zebra term and once upon a time I was engaged to a black chick that was pregnant.
> 
> You on the left need to stop being Pansy Asses and stop worrying about pointless verbage. *If you cannot grow a pair of *balls then...
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Now see, their ya go. Don't you know there are 112 genders now? Since you can't keep up, here is the current list.

https://www.wattpad.com/341462536-complete-list-of-genders-the-complete-list-of-all

By saying he can't grow a set of balls, you're assuming he is male. That's not very politically correct. It can be anything it chooses to be.

Why you can't even say baby anymore about a newborn. The correct term is theyby's. It's only fair since the child has yet to state it's gender.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/apr/26/steven-pooles-word-of-the-week

So you had better be getting with the program here! :vs_rocking_banana:

ETA: See what I mean??? You've caused damage to his psyche.



Jammer Six said:


> The only people who think language is harmless are those who have never been harmed by its use.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Lord seems to be sending godless liberals strong delusions so they will believe lies.
2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie,


----------



## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Denton said:


> Why, just the other day I saw someone get an eye poked out by a noun. It was horrific. I'm just glad it wasn't a verb that was used. Can you imagine the damage a verb could have caused? The Christians and Jews who have been persecuted and slaughtered in the Middle East and even in their own countries in Europe have no idea the damage Dwight inflicted upon the so-called "Palestinians."


I am glad indeed no one has ever assaulted me with a dangling participle... though I hear it happens a lot in prison.


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

The funny part is all I did to trigger Denton was type... words.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> The funny part is all I did to trigger Denton was type... words.


That's why we are here. Typing words. There's pictures and videos, but we mainly type words.

Speaking of typing words, tell me who you think Dwight has oppressed. Tell all of us as this is a forum and we all read.


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Oh, man, Denton, let it go.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> Oh, man, Denton, let it go.


So, you're saying you type words that mean nothing and you can't defend or explain them?

Let it go? I thought the PC police would appreciate my tenacity. Especially when it is about words. Is it because I am not a pure-breed, by chance?


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> So, you're saying you type words that mean nothing and you can't defend or explain them?
> 
> *Let it go?* I thought the PC police would appreciate my tenacity. Especially when it is about words. Is it because I am not a pure-breed, by chance?


You see @Denton, it's not about the reality of words. It's about feelings and safe spaces. You're driving him to places that shouldn't be delved into. This causes a crisis that can only be cured by a safe space with a teddy bear, coloring books and listening to Maxine Waters, James Clapper and James Comey for hours in order to calm ones self.

So shame on you for being such an insensitive brute.


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Sure, Denton, that's exactly what I'm saying. You understand my position perfectly, and your positions about words, PC, language and oppression look just fine on you. I'm certain that if you put up a poll, you'd find lots of folks here who think you look good here.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> You see @Denton, it's not about the reality of words. It's about feelings and safe spaces. You're driving him to places that shouldn't be delved into. This causes a crisis that can only be cured by a safe space with a teddy bear, coloring books and listening to Maxine Waters, James Clapper and James Comey for hours in order to calm ones self.
> 
> So shame on you for being such an insensitive brute.


What? It's not like I used an adjective. I hear those are the most dangerous of all words.


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> Sure, Denton, that's exactly what I'm saying. You understand my position perfectly, and your positions about words, PC, language and oppression look just fine on you. I'm certain that if you put up a poll, you'd find lots of folks here who think you look good here.


Denton is a pretty handsome guy not trying to sound gay unlike you. Your like an infected pimple on my ass.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

dupe........


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

It's okay to sound gay if you are gay.

I take it you think you're straight? (Worrying about sounding gay is sort of like worrying about drinking too much-- if you're worrying about it, well...)


----------



## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Jammer Six said:


> Sure, Denton, that's exactly what I'm saying. You understand my position perfectly, and your positions about words, PC, language and oppression look just fine on you. I'm certain that if you put up a poll, you'd find lots of folks here who think you look good here.


 Let's do a poll for BOTH of you, since it's your idea... I like it! Hope you have the courage of your convictions, or I'll be very disappointed... 
Here's the choices:
1) sage
2) wise
3) might have a point
4) meh... don't think so
5) jackass


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Jammer Six said:


> Sure, Denton, that's exactly what I'm saying. You understand my position perfectly, and your positions about words, PC, language and oppression look just fine on you. I'm certain that if you put up a poll, you'd find lots of folks here who think you look good here.


You and I have something in common in that we don't care about how we look in a crowd. Somewhat of a commonality, although I am sure you use all the right and PC-acceptable words.

I see what you are doing, by the way. Rather than discuss the topic, you figured it'd be fun to feign offense while derailing the conversation. With the above-quoted post, you attempt to deflect from my insistance that you explain exactly who Dwight has oppressed.


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

No need to think, I know. When I was a few years younger, I was known to not turn down multiple women sandwich.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Denton is a pretty handsome guy not trying to sound gay unlike you. Your like an infected pimple on my ass.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


LOL! Handsome? Me? That is just too funny!


----------



## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

MaterielGeneral said:


> No need to think, I know. When I was a few years younger, I was known to not turn down multiple women sandwich.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Which gets a tip of the hat from The Stratman... :vs_cool:


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

StratMaster said:


> Which gets a tip of the hat from The Stratman... :vs_cool:


True story

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

That's close, but there's only one way to really know.


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> That's close, but there's only one way to really know.


Do you want to scratch and sniff?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> LOL! Handsome? Me? That is just too funny!


I've seen you're vid's. Sorry but you don't do anything for me. :vs_cool:


----------

