# Are you prepped for a LIMITED nuclear exchange?



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Assume some missiles fly, but cooler heads prevail and just a few cities are hit with air bursts before it ends. Do you drive into the city after the firestorm burns out to help your neighbors? Or do you batten down the hatches on the homestead for the inevitable onslaught of refugees?

Or say there is an accidental launch and retaliation in kind, and just one local military target is taken out, but you live downwind of the ground burst. You have one hour before the fallout reaches you. It will expose you to >1000 rads in the first hour, which would be certain death. What do you do?


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I’ll answer this one myself because it’s so interesting.

If you’re downwind of a ground burst, such as would be used on a silo complex, naval port, or hardened bunker, your options are limited. You need shelter from the fallout, FAST, or you need to get out, EQUALLY FAST. For those folks who are prepped to bug out quickly, a 60 minute crosswind drive at 60 MPH will probably keep you alive. Whether you can gather everyone in your family on a work/school day to flee is problematical. If you can’t leave, you probably cannot shovel enough dirt against your basement windows (if you have a basement), and tape plastic on all the doors and windows of your house in one hour. So shelter in place is viable only if you have a bunker already prepared, and few of us are lucky enough to have that.

As far as helping the wounded victims if no radiation danger is present, we must each make our own decision. The authorities may not allow you inside the disaster perimeter to help, even if you wanted to. Perhaps making it known that your house is a place of refuge (you can always replace your preps, later), or volunteering at the town church/fire station might be the thing to do.

The combinations and permutations are endless. Any way you slice it, it would be SHTF, and I hope I never experience it.


----------



## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

"a 60 minute crosswind drive at 60 MPH will probably keep you alive"

I dont think that would be doable after a nuclear attac, people would try to get everywere and roads will be blocked. 

Personally, I would report for duty asap since Im a member of our military home defecence forces. From there I would follow orders.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

If the nukes were launched by Russia my wife and I are goners. Our place is about 50 air miles from the only East Coast port for the Trident nuclear submarines. Which I would assume would be a very high priority target for Russia or China.

If the nukes are launched at an American city, perhaps by Iran, I would not go out to help anybody. Anything that happens outside the perimeter of Answered Prayers Farm is not my concern. My concern lies inside the perimeter.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

We would hunker down, since absolutely NOBODY would be nuking anything near us. There are no big targets west of us for a very, very long way so fallout wouldn't be an issue most likely. 

My best way to help would be to shelter any of our family that were refugees, but they would need to get to us because driving into something like a blast zone only works in Hollywood movies.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

There are a lot of variables in such a scenario, so it is hard to say what I would do, assuming I were able to do a thing.

Let's take RPD's case. Fifty miles is a good distance from a potential target with regard to the heat, blast and initial radiation. The wind direction and weather conditions will determine how well he and his wife fairs, afterward. As a matter of fact, I would feel pretty good about his scenario. Problem is, he is east of the Farley nuclear reactor outside of Dothan, Alabama. Will that be a target? If so, his problems have just gotten a lot more numerous.

Me? I am west and a little north of Farley, so I will be better. Only problem is, I am next to Ft. Rucker, the "Home of Army Aviation." Is the training center for rotor wing capabilities a target? If so, will the attack be from a large yield aerial detonated attack? If so, I'll see y'all on the other side. If it is a small yield attack on Cairns AAF (airfield capable of handling heavy lifters located a few miles on the other side of Rucker), I might be OK short term.

Radiation is a problem, of course, but then the usual, logistical nightmare kicks in for all of us. You know, food getting to the shelves, ATMs not working, etc.

Longer term is the weather and what targets got hit upwind in other regions.

All in all, I'd rather be fishing.


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

in this type of scenario I don't think it is going to matter, in a major nuke strike it will be over in a few hours do you really want to b around after that? better to just get it over with as quickly as possible.
if you do survive I don't know if I would say your the lucky one. last man on earth (last showing) phil's brother in the space station trying to call Huston comes to mind.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Medic33 said:


> in this type of scenario I don't think it is going to matter, in a major nuke strike it will be over in a few hours do you really want to b around after that? better to just get it over with as quickly as possible.
> if you do survive I don't know if I would say your the lucky one. last man on earth (last showing) phil's brother in the space station trying to call Huston comes to mind.


What is your suggestion? Take a lead pill as soon as the bombs strike?

An exchange is survivable.

I'm not planning on getting anything over-with as soon as possible, except for a gun fight or a common cold.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I would not be driving into a city to help - 
1. I do not go to cities on good days 
2. What I am going to do 
3. Me not going and staying off the roads is more of a help then anything I could do onsite

If a bomb goes off an hour away - I would get my car inside the garage and make sure my water hose was also inside (so i can wash things off later) 
Close all my windows and blinds
check weather forecast
If it was an air burst not much stuff will fall


----------



## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

The prevailing winds are from the west to east, a nuke on the west coast would eventually spread fallout across the country.
There are prime targets everywhere in the US.
Look up the ash cloud from Mt. St Helens, it went around the world, from the west.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

With the fall of steel I doubt Pittsburgh would be a target in the parameters of this fictional scenario. I live too close to flee without prior warning of a detonation. I am also downwind. If I was given the right info with enough time, fleeing would be my choice as home would be too radioactive.


----------



## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Interesting question, I am not sure what we would do. It would depend on where it hit or where it was headed. I would not go into a nuclear zone, they give people special training for that. They have a lot of safety equipment to use, I am not sure that it is adequate. I would however, take in anyone we know and trust that came to us for help.


----------



## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

this is a fictional senario and were you live dont exclude the possibillyt of a nuclear detonation. Something secret might have been there or the missile was damaged and did not explode were expected.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Weather would be a big variable. There are no basements in the housing around here so I would have to evac if a fallout cloud were coming my way. If a 25 megaton or smaller hit the local air base (the bone yard) I would be ok.


----------



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

It depends on the location and type of burst, aerial or ground. A close by ground burst, I'd probably be bugging out, likewise if it were a near earth aerial burst as the likelihood of massive fires in the area would be the danger. If it were an EMP, then I'm probably not going anywhere, at least by car.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Down here in AZ, I see a lot of older cars and trucks in good shape. I'll have to look into one, just to have.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Denton said:


> There are a lot of variables in such a scenario, so it is hard to say what I would do, assuming I were able to do a thing.
> 
> Let's take RPD's case. Fifty miles is a good distance from a potential target with regard to the heat, blast and initial radiation. The wind direction and weather conditions will determine how well he and his wife fairs, afterward. As a matter of fact, I would feel pretty good about his scenario. Problem is, he is east of the Farley nuclear reactor outside of Dothan, Alabama. Will that be a target? If so, his problems have just gotten a lot more numerous.
> 
> ...


I like your last line.:joyous:

A friend of mine once described survival in combat being a matter of "inches and angles". As in why a guy next to you gets hit and you don't. 
In other words, it is just something you can not control.
This scenario is just like that, but on a huge scale.
I have no control over it, and I'm not going to worry about it. Am I in a hurry to die? Not at all. But I could be killed in a car wreck before dark tonight, too. Remember - it's all about inches and angles.


----------



## beach23bum (Jan 27, 2015)

Due to my level of knowledge I have to watch what I say, but say the nukes do hit from china or russia. given the fallout seen in tv shows like jericho, and I live 10 minutes from the largest naval base in the world I would be done. 25% of my preps are also done. but if it was Iran, it wouldn't be missiles more likely is would be one of two nukes on a small cargo ship pulling in to port in one of our larger population cities(New York, LA, Seattle) that would leave our military 99% untouched and the middle east would be a glass parking lot. we would have a the largest crisis ever seen on this planet due to all the people with radiation damage.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Lock and load and hit the basement. No one will be dropping nuclear weapons in my area. Nothing of any value for miles. Twin Cites is a 100 miles away which maybe a target. That's why I live here. Lots of "fresh" water, low population and really cold winters to keep the do duh's out.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Type of blast and weather would be the biggest concerns.
Despite their shock value, surviving a nuclear blast isn't as dire as it is often portrayed.
If it was an air burst, fallout would be almost non-existent. Only those in the blast radius and heat radius would be affected. Even then, if you're inside a solid building, the shockwave will take out your windows, and the heat blast will cause severe burns, but they won't necessarily be terminal. If you see the flash through a window, leave immediately and put as many layers of brick/concrete between you and that direction. You should be fine. You won't have time to react if you're actually in the blast radius though. Your death could be quick, or it could last a few days.
If it was a ground blast, wind patterns become extremely important. If the EMP didn't take out your radios, you'll want them on ASAP to get weather information. You can survive in the fallout zone, but your activity will be severely limited, and any outside contact will require extensive protocol to decontaminate and stay safe.
It would be best to leave that area, if possible.

Now... if it were me. I'm south of the DFW area, and don't consider it a primary target. Dallas is a business and travel hub, but not anything I'd consider a primary target. If anything, Austin would get it first simply to disrupt state guard response and government actions. I consider myself safe from any potential attack scenario.
That is certainly a positive outlook. Things can change. If a nuclear attack happened within 20 miles, burst type will need to be determined.
If air burst, I'm gathering all family and what we can carry, and bugging out to the folks' place. If the cars don't work, we each have packs to get us out there on foot, but the walk will take a few hours. Once there, they have horses we can use to return and load up on supplies. (assuming they haven't been scavenged) It just occurred to me that we have a LOT of farmers and ranchers out in our area that all have old tractors. It would be my guess that these will still function, and could be used as improvised vehicles for moving about. (more thought is needed on this, as my folks have a decent one)

If a ground burst, and fallout is incoming, we may not have those few hours to be fully exposed. I do what I can to gather the family, we seal off all access to the home, fill everything we can with water, check the radios every hour, pull out my U.S. Armed Forces Nuclear, Biological And Chemical Survival Manual, and sit tight.
Unfortunately, my current water collection system is fully exposed. If I had time, I'd attempt to seal it off and rig a shielded hose into the house. I really need to seal that thing anyways...


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Kauboy, I'm thinking along the same lines as you.

BUT (and there's always a but), our actions must be vastly different depending on whether it is an air burst or a ground burst. HOW WILL WE KNOW? We may just see a bright light, or a cloud, depending on how far away we are. Radio/TV is probably off the air. In 'the fog of war' it may take hours for the military or FEMA to inform the public what has happened. By then the fallout may be in our lungs, and we've had it.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

True. Best way to know quickly is to find someone who saw it.
If there is no way to know, hunker down. Better safe than sorry.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

All the more reason to have the necessary equipment when you need it. If you are not in the blast area, get out of the potential fallout cloud. Look at the clouds to get an idea of which way the fallout is going. If you think you will be in it, travel 90 degrees to that direction. Seek the best shelter you can find. Hopefully you have some N99 dust masks or a NBC mask to prevent breathing in any fallout. Inhaling or ingesting fallout is the worst. Only medical treatment will help you. The farther you are away from the fallout the better, so get to the center of a building and at least be on the ground floor.

I found this web site helpful but there is a lot more info out there. WHAT TO DO IF A NUCLEAR DISASTER IS IMMINENT!


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Lock the gates and sharpen up a few more Pikes...


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Paraquack, those KI4U folks that you reference also have a site with plans for a homemade radiation meter that contains no electronic circuitry, and will survive an EMP attack. I've built one of these, it's not that difficult. The meter can accurately measure dose rates from 30 mR/hr up to 43 R/hr. Plans for the Kearny Fallout Radiation Meter can be found here:

KFM Kearny Radiation Fallout Meter Kit, free plans


----------



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> Assume some missiles fly, but cooler heads prevail and just a few cities are hit with air bursts before it ends. Do you drive into the city after the firestorm burns out to help your neighbors? Or do you batten down the hatches on the homestead for the inevitable onslaught of refugees?
> 
> Or say there is an accidental launch and retaliation in kind, and just one local military target is taken out, but you live downwind of the ground burst. You have one hour before the fallout reaches you. It will expose you to >1000 rads in the first hour, which would be certain death. What do you do?


This makes me smile. Assuming this is between France and England, perhaps I am prepared but in general, there is no way I could respond to this issue.

Have I specifically prepped to survive nuclear war - no. Do I have some nuclear war surival capabilities - yes - for a week or so. I would suspect that the government will be in crisis mode should that happen. I would suspect that fallout would be my only major concern if I survived the exchange itself. I have minimal protective clothing and air filteration, rubber gloves etc.. I know how to protect myself by layering clothing, and how to move, the timeline etc.. but I do not have radiation detection equipment, and don't think I'd be able to build one. I've read nuclear war survival skills, US field manuals and other materials on nuclear war and civil defence. I do not think I am prepared for nuclear war, but I think I would fare better than many.

I have access to baking soda, KI tabs, bleach and some other decontamination materials but I suppose it all depends, the whole thing is getting out of any radiated area or the drift. Decontaminate yourself etc..


----------



## Robb_b (Aug 3, 2015)

I love within a 30 mile radius of the Catawaba nuclear plant and with in 15 miles of another nuclear plant under construction. I'm screwed if either of those are ever hit


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

I figure that if I get radiated and start glowing I won't need a glowstick or flashlight to see at night.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

From the US Army CBR Field Manual, FM123-45A:
In case of nuclear attack,
(1) Loosen belt
(2) Drop trousers
(3) Place head between legs
(4) Kiss your butt goodbye
:armata_PDT_15:


----------



## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Does anyone really think it would be "limited"?
Once it starts---it's on--


----------



## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

Took up yoga awhile back, trying to get back the flexibility to kiss my ass goodbye.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Swedishsocialist said:


> this is a fictional senario and were you live dont exclude the possibillyt of a nuclear detonation.


Do the Marvel Superheros get involved at any point in time? I could definitely hang with Captain America. Hulk? Not so much.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Took me a while to find this old link:
How to shelter from fallout after a nuclear attack on your city
It's a very good read. Over the years of reading and from Civil Defense/ESDA training years ago, they believed that even in an all out exchange between the super powers only 1/3 of the population (the big cities and close suburbs) would be killed in the initial blasts. Another 1/3 would (living about 150 miles down wind) would die from heavy radiation from fallout. That leaves 1/3 of us who would survive, if they know how to take shelter and where, can monitor the radiation so the know when they can leave, how to survive short forays outside if absolutely necessary if the radiation levels aren't too bad. The nuke disaster planners feel an all out exchange would cause a nuclear winter that could last for up to 2 years. Others think all it would take was a 100 MT exchange to cause a nuclear winter.

Personally, I worry more about terrorists, N. Korea, and Iran than I do about Russia. This is the biggest reason I try to prepare for a nuke strike. 
Here's another read you might find interesting: Page 45 covers terrorist nukes.
http://fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/7906/790604.pdf


----------



## Dirk Pitt (Apr 21, 2015)

No, I am not


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A "limited" nuclear exchange...

I am in a non-target area, down wind of nothing under "normal" conditions, and know that modern nukes are clean when detonated at the "best area affected" height so, yes, I'm ready. Any air burst detonation will be between 1.5 and 5 miles above the target - depending on yield. There will be extremely limited fallout under those conditions. Within 72 hours "ground zero" will be habitable. If it rains within 72 hours I know better than to drink the water and to shower to clean any possible contaminants off of me and out of my clothes.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

This guy explains the relevant possibilities extremely well and puts the nuclear scenario in perspective. This is what we are dealing with


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks, very good presentation. I hope everybody watches it.


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I don't think anyone can actually be prepared for nuclear.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

If your in the blast zone, you're dead. If you're in the HEAVY fallout zone, you're probably going to die. If you're not in one of those two zones, you might get sick, but according to all the "research and planning" you will survive. The last group will be about 1/3 of the US population. But as we all know, survival won't really work if we are not prepared to survive. So the odds are 1 in 3 that I'll survive and so I prep. I also prep the equipment that might up my odds a little. A nuke is not a death sentence by any means. Research about surviving a nuke and read. Knowledge is life.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

paraquack said:


> Took me a while to find this old link:
> How to shelter from fallout after a nuclear attack on your city
> It's a very good read. Over the years of reading and from Civil Defense/ESDA training years ago, they believed that even in an all out exchange between the super powers only 1/3 of the population (the big cities and close suburbs) would be killed in the initial blasts. Another 1/3 would (living about 150 miles down wind) would die from heavy radiation from fallout. That leaves 1/3 of us who would survive, if they know how to take shelter and where, can monitor the radiation so the know when they can leave, how to survive short forays outside if absolutely necessary if the radiation levels aren't too bad. The nuke disaster planners feel an all out exchange would cause a nuclear winter that could last for up to 2 years. Others think all it would take was a 100 MT exchange to cause a nuclear winter.
> 
> ...


That is scary could you imagine how many hundreds of dollars in damage a nuclear weapon would do if it hit Detroit.


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Not to worry, the Democrats would find a way to bail it out.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

PaulS said:


> A "limited" nuclear exchange...
> 
> I am in a non-target area, down wind of nothing under "normal" conditions, and know that modern nukes are clean when detonated at the "best area affected" height so, yes, I'm ready. Any air burst detonation will be between 1.5 and 5 miles above the target - depending on yield. There will be extremely limited fallout under those conditions. Within 72 hours "ground zero" will be habitable. If it rains within 72 hours I know better than to drink the water and to shower to clean any possible contaminants off of me and out of my clothes.


I think for most people the minimum you would want to be somewhat prepared for a nuclear exchange is #1An actual knowledge about nuclear fall out. #2 Enough provisions that you can stay in a sheltered place for several days 
depending on the radiation level a basement may be adequate. # 3 It would be extremely useful if you had a way to measure the radiation level.
If a person took the time to look around his area he may find there are several places that would give him the necessary protection like basement in large building, under ground parking lots, mines and quarries even natural structures like caves and rock houses.
I have often thought one of the best SHTF items a person could have is a truck load of sand and a lot of sand bags. They could easlly be used for radiation shelter, putting out fires, and protection from firearms.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

PaulS said:


> A "limited" nuclear exchange...
> 
> I am in a non-target area, down wind of nothing under "normal" conditions, and know that modern nukes are clean when detonated at the "best area affected" height so, yes, I'm ready. Any air burst detonation will be between 1.5 and 5 miles above the target - depending on yield. There will be extremely limited fallout under those conditions. Within 72 hours "ground zero" will be habitable. If it rains within 72 hours I know better than to drink the water and to shower to clean any possible contaminants off of me and out of my clothes.


Not so. Whether the detonation be above surface, surface or subsurface, as well as yield, is dependent upon the target.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Any AIR burst... that is not the only type of targeting data but it is the one that would be used on major metropolitan areas. Targeting silos, and nuclear storage yards would likely be done with surface or subterranean detonations. If you hit a silo or a cache of nuke bombs with an air burst it does little damage but hit it with one of the other two and you at least make them useless and you might be able to turn them into a "dirty bomb". When an air burst is used it is detonated at an altitude that allows it to cover the widest possible area. That way it does the most damage and kills the most people.

I have, what will be, an unpopular comment on the video. The speaker described a ground level burst in the middle of a bunch of skyscrapers and then used the destruction ranges for an air burst. The buildings would absorb most of the blast and radiation and deflect the heat and blast upward limiting the damage and immediate death to an area much smaller than he showed in his presentation. he made another mistake when he said the radiation from the fallout of a ground burst would dissipate in 72 hours. In a ground burst the ground and closest buildings are vaporized and irradiated so that when they condense as fallout they are sources of long term highly radioactive elements. (Gamma and energetic X-ray sources) that take hundreds of years to dissipate. The thing he got right was to get away as fast as you can - shower and then get farther away and seek medical help once you are at least 100 miles from the down wind area.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Well, not sure about all the physics of what happens exactly when a nuke goes off, other then your pretty much screwed if your in the vicinity when it does go off. :joyous: People will have a bad day. I was more interested in his threat assessment and what was most likely in today's world. The likelihood of a terrorist or rogue nation using a nuclear device is, in my opinion, more likely then a super power confrontation. ( Although that could still happen ) Technically speaking he may have been oversimplifying I agree.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The two biggest nuclear threats we face in the US are a terrorist bomb (either nuclear or "dirty bomb") and an HEMP from a terrorist group or a rogue or powerful nation. 

A "dirty bomb" is a conventional small explosive device wrapped in a highly radioactive material. It would effect a very small area (for the most part) but the effect would be long lasting and a constant reminder of our vulnerability. The clean up of such an event would take about three years and the radioactive materials removed would have to be placed in permanent containment vessels and buried.

The HEMP we have discussed many times but know this. It would take the better part of fifty years to get 80% of the repairs done. Some areas would be without power for decades longer.

Between the two the dirty bomb is more terror raising and is the most likely route that terrorists would take. The HEMP is something that, whomever used it would have to have the ability to place the bomb in orbit. They would also need the technology to detonate it from the ground. It would have to be over Kansas to effect the entire country from low earth orbit. If it was too high then it would affect more than just the USA and if it was too low it would only affect part of the country.

The Soviets or North Korea would be the most likely suspects for this kind of attack but there are several other countries that are capable.

Either way to us, as individuals, the worst would be the "dirty bomb" because it is a reminder of our vulnerability and a local horrendous event that would be used to take more of our rights and freedoms from us in the name of "security".


----------



## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Bugging out would be a bit difficult when you won't have the intelligence of where to go to be safe.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> Bugging out would be a bit difficult when you won't have the intelligence of where to go to be safe.


Where ever you live there are usually predominate wind directions. Those are the directions you don't want to go. 
Your plan should include a plan to get out of the area in a manner that keeps you away from prevailing winds. This will help you avoid nuclear, biological, and chemical agents. It doesn't matter whether you are trying to avoid a particularly strong version of the flu, the fumes from a spill from a railroad accident, or radiation from a nuke. Move at right angles to the prevailing winds. Include the detail in your plan. Prevailing winds can be different in summer and winter but if you look it up and record it you have the knowledge required to stay safe.


----------

