# SHTF Moonshine



## TGus

I've successfully made some moonshine, and wines from grapes, pears, dandelion flowers, and mulberries, but always felt that it wasn't practical during SHTF. I would never waste so much cornmeal and/or sugar to make alcohol when those ingredients would be far more nutritionally useful for my family. Additionally, other ingredients recommended for ensuring wine quality would be unobtainable at that time.

Maybe someone could help me out with an idea I have for making moonshine without cornmeal and sugar next Fall.

I have 9 fruit trees in my yard, -cherries, Asian pears, and mulberries. Those of you who have fruit trees know how much produce goes wasted because of squirrels, birds, and insects, -and sometimes disease. I plan to take all the fruit I would throw away, mix it with acorn meal and rain water, and see if it ferments in gallon jugs with fermentation traps. If it does, I plan on waiting until the fermentation stops, then distill the alcohol out of it, as I would for moonshine. I don't plan on adding yeast or sugar.

I got this idea from videos of squirrels drunk on naturally fermented acorns.

Does anyone here have any useful suggestions about how to improve this process? For example, should I cold-leach the acorns first? It seems that whatever yeast ferments the acorns naturally isn't bothered by tannins.


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## Coastie dad

Cornmeal?

Whole corn is $12/100# down here. Was 10 until greedy bastids bumped the price for winter.


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## SOCOM42

Coastie dad said:


> Cornmeal?
> 
> Whole corn is $12/100# down here. Was 10 until greedy bastids bumped the price for winter.


Greedy? hell they get that here for a 50# sack of dent corn.


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## Real Old Man

Remember that corn likour will keep a whole lot longer than dent corn. and it's easier to transport


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## hawgrider

"100 pounds of yeast and some copper line. "


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## Steve40th

Pálinka was made when wheat production went low in Romania and Hungary, for example. Its basically brandy, but very easy to make, keeps you warm and has pretty good alcohol content. easy to make, like Meade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pálinka


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## Smitty901

People here have been making Wine, beer, a so called Moon shine from the day they got here. Many some high quality stuff. In Wisconsin it is legal to make it for personal use. Don't drink it myself but it has other uses. SHTF sugar is a problem but sugar beets can be a work around.
100 acre corn filed out the back door . Whole cob corn store in a vented crib last a long time .


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## Slippy

Mile Hi Distilling?

https://milehidistilling.com/


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## A Watchman

Slippy said:


> Mile Hi Distilling?
> 
> https://milehidistilling.com/


Screw all the shiny jugs and things, how much for the hooker?


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## TGus

Steve40th said:


> Pálinka was made when wheat production went low in Romania and Hungary, for example. Its basically brandy, but very easy to make, keeps you warm and has pretty good alcohol content. easy to make, like Meade.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pálinka


I just researched ways to make Palinka, and you're right, -it's easy, you just use fruit, don't have to add sugar or yeast, and it's strong. Thanks! Think I'll make some next Fall too.


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## sideKahr

I've made every kind of wine, but never distilled it to moonshine status. 

My Uncle Dave did; he made some kickass white lightning, and my Mom used to hate visiting there because my Dad would get stupid blasted and insist on going skinny dipping after dark. Us kids would sneak peeks through the curtains when we were supposed to be sleeping.

Uncle Dave and my Dad fought the Japanese in the South Pacific, so their antics got a pass with me.


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## bigwheel

Slippy said:


> Mile Hi Distilling?
> 
> https://milehidistilling.com/


Would be highly reluctant to buy any distilling equipment from a retail outlet. Think I already told the sad story about buying some equipment from a local company only to figure out later the Feds had put the bite on the guy and coerced him to give up the names and other pertinent info on who his purchasers were. Everybody who bought got a nasty letter from whatever crazy bureaucracy is in charge of regulating the hobby along with an application for an ethanol production permit. Fortunately Texas doesn't have any laws governing possession of the equipment and it only becomes illegal to actually use it to make the stuff. On the other hand Florida and sure other states attempt to regulate the equipment. Having said all that sugar washes are much more feasible than trying to to "mash" plant material for the available fructose. 
https://www.whiskeystill.net/blogs/whiskey-still-co-blog/13096785-sugar-and-moonshine


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## Smitty901

bigwheel said:


> Would be highly reluctant to buy any distilling equipment from a retail outlet. Think I already told the sad story about buying some equipment from a local company only to figure out later the Feds had put the bite on the guy and coerced him to give up the names and other pertinent info on who his purchasers were. Everybody who bought got a nasty letter from whatever crazy bureaucracy is in charge of regulating the hobby along with an application for an ethanol production permit. Fortunately Texas doesn't have any laws governing possession of the equipment and it only becomes illegal to actually use it to make the stuff. On the other hand Florida and sure other states attempt to regulate the equipment. Having said all that sugar washes are much more feasible than trying to to "mash" plant material for the available fructose.
> https://www.whiskeystill.net/blogs/whiskey-still-co-blog/13096785-sugar-and-moonshine


 It is legal here they can call the FEDs all they want. Long as you don't sell it and do not make over the limit.


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## bigwheel

Federal laws regulating the production of ethanol applies to all states in the union and invariably supercede any state statutes which say otherwise. ..last I checked. Now a person can make beer and wine till they get blue in the face in Texas anyway. Used to be 200 gallons a year limit but never heard anybody nag about making too much. Now sale of alcoholic beverages is a whole nother ball of wax. 
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...-at-home-is-on-the-rise-but-its-still-illegal


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## bigwheel

Meant to say NPR is full of crap about the dangers of methanol poisoning. The danger from shine is non existent. The process will not increase the methanol content any higher than was in the underlying mash or wort..wash or whatever a person want so call it. The only way to get more is to add it yourself. It fact thats why most commerical liquors are good for getting a hangover because they dont remove it from the finished product. Its a process called making cuts. The first cut..gets rid of he nasty stuff..since the undesirable alcohols have a lower distillation point than does the good stuff... and usually smells like paint thinner combined with nail polish remover. Now back to the operation of using wine to run off a batch..that would surely work without using additional sugar if the fruit was high enough it sugar to promote a good ferment. That would be called brandy last I checked. lol.


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## hawgrider

> Federal laws


What mama doesn't know won't hurt her.

Simply distilling water to refill the banks of batteries.


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## Smitty901

bigwheel said:


> Federal laws regulating the production of ethanol applies to all states in the union and invariably supercede any state statutes which say otherwise. ..last I checked. Now a person can make beer and wine till they get blue in the face in Texas anyway. Used to be 200 gallons a year limit but never heard anybody nag about making too much. Now sale of alcoholic beverages is a whole nother ball of wax.
> https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...-at-home-is-on-the-rise-but-its-still-illegal


 So how does that work with POT.
Down town Gatlinburg TN you can buy all the real moon shine you want. in many flavors.


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## Redneck

TGus said:


> I've successfully made some moonshine, and wines from grapes, pears, dandelion flowers, and mulberries, but always felt that it wasn't practical during SHTF. I would never waste so much cornmeal and/or sugar to make alcohol when those ingredients would be far more nutritionally useful for my family. Additionally, other ingredients recommended for ensuring wine quality would be unobtainable at that time.
> 
> Maybe someone could help me out with an idea I have for making moonshine without cornmeal and sugar next Fall.
> 
> I have 9 fruit trees in my yard, -cherries, Asian pears, and mulberries. Those of you who have fruit trees know how much produce goes wasted because of squirrels, birds, and insects, -and sometimes disease. I plan to take all the fruit I would throw away, mix it with acorn meal and rain water, and see if it ferments in gallon jugs with fermentation traps. If it does, I plan on waiting until the fermentation stops, then distill the alcohol out of it, as I would for moonshine. I don't plan on adding yeast or sugar.
> 
> I got this idea from videos of squirrels drunk on naturally fermented acorns.
> 
> Does anyone here have any useful suggestions about how to improve this process? For example, should I cold-leach the acorns first? It seems that whatever yeast ferments the acorns naturally isn't bothered by tannins.


I don't understand the point to distill the product into moonshine. Why not just ferment the fruit juice into wine or cider? Then, if you wish, some could be allowed to go to vinegar... another valuable product. I doubt if much of the damaged fruit would be ripe enough to have enough juice & sugar to produce product that would ferment much at all. IMO, a better use for the damaged fruit would be to feed it to the farm animals... which we do even during good times.

Now maybe your intent is to be able to get a usable product from damaged fruit that might have poisons or harmful microbes in it. That sounds logical but when you consider much of this damaged fruit will not be properly ripened, that means there will be much less sugar to ferment into alcohol. I just really doubt, for all the effort, that you would get much moonshine from this process.

I laugh my ass off when I see drunk squirrels in the orchard. The drops start fermenting naturally and smell rather nice. My gravel drive down to the horse barn runs next to the orchard fence. Once while driving down to the barn, I saw the largest, fattest squirrel under the first row of apple trees. He saw me & took off running and kept banging into the fence. He would hit, back up, run downhill a bit more & hit again. Stupid drunk did this all the way down the orchard. I guarantee you, I have some of the fattest, best tasting squirrels in the world.


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## The Tourist

I'd be careful. Get your no-brother-good-inlaw to drink some first.

Spirits, especially moonshine, can have something called fusel oil, drink too much of that and you are DRN.

Here's the formal definition:

_fu·sel oil.
[ˈfyo͞ozəl ˌoil]

NOUN

a mixture of several alcohols (chiefly amyl alcohol) produced as a byproduct of alcoholic fermentation._


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## bigwheel

Smitty901 said:


> So how does that work with POT.
> Down town Gatlinburg TN you can buy all the real moon shine you want. in many flavors.


Same here on the legal shine but legal is the operative word. If anybody ever had any Titos Hand Made Vodka from Austin..they was drinking white dog corn mash shine. Texas just dispensed its first jug of CBL type cannibis oil a few days ago...available only with a script and for kids with epiepsy. We are way behind the curve on that. Seagrams and Bud donate way too much money to crooked politicians to keep it illegal. Then the churchy folks like to nag about it too.


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## hawgrider

Smitty901 said:


> So how does that work with POT.
> Down town Gatlinburg TN you can buy all the real moon shine you want. in many flavors.


I wouldn't call whats for sale in Gatlinburg real...
Its legal shine. 
Real shine is made without government regulations and taxes. We can get the same legal moonshine up here. Its OK but it not the real deal.

Ive had real deal from both North Carolina and Tennessee. Back woods Tennessee is the best hooch. Nice and smooth and plenty of corn taste.

Store bought doesn't hold a candle to back woods recipes.


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## bigwheel

******* said:


> I don't understand the point to distill the product into moonshine. Why not just ferment the fruit juice into wine or cider? Then, if you wish, some could be allowed to go to vinegar... another valuable product. I doubt if much of the damaged fruit would be ripe enough to have enough juice & sugar to produce product that would ferment much at all. IMO, a better use for the damaged fruit would be to feed it to the farm animals... which we do even during good times.
> 
> Now maybe your intent is to be able to get a usable product from damaged fruit that might have poisons or harmful microbes in it. That sounds logical but when you consider much of this damaged fruit will not be properly ripened, that means there will be much less sugar to ferment into alcohol. I just really doubt, for all the effort, that you would get much moonshine from this process.
> 
> I laugh my ass off when I see drunk squirrels in the orchard. The drops start fermenting naturally and smell rather nice. My gravel drive down to the horse barn runs next to the orchard fence. Once while driving down to the barn, I saw the largest, fattest squirrel under the first row of apple trees. He saw me & took off running and kept banging into the fence. He would hit, back up, run downhill a bit more & hit again. Stupid drunk did this all the way down the orchard. I guarantee you, I have some of the fattest, best tasting squirrels in the world.


Hear you on that. In an end of the world barter scenario wine would surely be the way to go. Making shine is labor and fuel intensive. The extractor I peddled here while back operated on electric water heater elements which is very handy if you got electric. Otherwise break out propane turkey fryer burner. A typical 10 gallon batch requires 10 gallons of a beer..wine..wort..wash or whatever alcoholic sub strata you got and should cough up about a gallon of 185-195 proof white dog providing the base material is about 10% to start with..on a reflux still or a flute. One trip through a pot still will bring it to about 140 proof. Lot of folks take that and water it down to below 80 proof and run it again to to get a higher alcohol content or ABV as its called. Trying to re run higher than 80 proof is dangerous they say.


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## Ragnarök

TGus said:


> I've successfully made some moonshine, and wines from grapes, pears, dandelion flowers, and mulberries, but always felt that it wasn't practical during SHTF. I would never waste so much cornmeal and/or sugar to make alcohol when those ingredients would be far more nutritionally useful for my family. Additionally, other ingredients recommended for ensuring wine quality would be unobtainable at that time.
> 
> Maybe someone could help me out with an idea I have for making moonshine without cornmeal and sugar next Fall.
> 
> I have 9 fruit trees in my yard, -cherries, Asian pears, and mulberries. Those of you who have fruit trees know how much produce goes wasted because of squirrels, birds, and insects, -and sometimes disease. I plan to take all the fruit I would throw away, mix it with acorn meal and rain water, and see if it ferments in gallon jugs with fermentation traps. If it does, I plan on waiting until the fermentation stops, then distill the alcohol out of it, as I would for moonshine. I don't plan on adding yeast or sugar.
> 
> I got this idea from videos of squirrels drunk on naturally fermented acorns.
> 
> Does anyone here have any useful suggestions about how to improve this process? For example, should I cold-leach the acorns first? It seems that whatever yeast ferments the acorns naturally isn't bothered by tannins.


I would think a decent tasting wine or spirit could be valuable as a bartering item.

You could look at beets to make a spirit. The high sugar content you can make rum with them. You could do the same with carrots and sweet potatoes. You could use honey suckle as a natural yeast.

Yeast Strains ? SouthYeast Labs

There are many options to start with. It is a skill so practice is everything if you want a good product.

When you say you do not want to add sugar and yeast...do you mean store bought? There are lots of natural occurring sources of both that you could grow or harvest from the forest. Safe flowers are a good source of yeast strains.... honeysuckle is one of my favorites.


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## bigwheel

The Tourist said:


> I'd be careful. Get your no-brother-good-inlaw to drink some first.
> 
> Spirits, especially moonshine, can have something called fusel oil, drink too much of that and you are DRN.
> 
> Here's the formal definition:
> 
> _fu·sel oil.
> [ˈfyo͞ozəl ˌoil]
> 
> NOUN
> 
> a mixture of several alcohols (chiefly amyl alcohol) produced as a byproduct of alcoholic fermentation._


Right. its a by product of fermentation. Distillation removes it if a person wants it gone. Good "cuts" gets rid of it. All the crappy alcohols have a lower boiling point than ethanol..so they come out first and are called "heads." On a ten gallon run that should be about a half pint of liquid. Smells horrible like acetone and should be discarded or used for starting a fire or something. Many commercial operations dont bother to remove it..and that gives a bad head ache. After the heads come the hearts..which is the goal. By the same token at the end of the run the distillate gets weaker and starts smelling like dirty gym socks. That starts at about 70 proof. Dont hurt a thing to drink it and it can sometimes be allowed to dissipate by leaving a jar full of the stuff exposed to the air. The tails are also included in several brands of cheap whiskey.


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## Smitty901

Well I don't drink but will make some for other uses when the time comes . There is a difference in making high proof rot gut and good worth while stuff.


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## bigwheel

Think TG said last time the Ruskie economy collapsed..Vodka was on the top of the desirable barter items. Ranking up right near cigarettes and toilet paper.


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## Redneck

With normal cider, made from safe product, one can boost the alcohol level greatly by making applejack, thru a process called freeze distillation. You let the hard cider freeze & throw out the ice. You continue the process until ice no longer forms. Cider is usually under 10% alcohol but applejack can run around 25-40%.

IMO, having a fruit orchard is a grand thing... and just perfect for prepping. Drops and damaged fruit feeds the farm animals, the apples produce a large amount of healthy calories and making cider is a natural process... as is the next step when it when it naturally wants to go to vinegar. I have mostly apples but also peaches, pears, muscadines, blueberries, blackberries & raspberries. Just strung the wire this afternoon on my new blackberry trellis & worked in the bed where the raspberries will go this spring.

This is me grabbing incredible blueberries while cutting grass.


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## Ragnarök

******* said:


> With normal cider, made from safe product, one can boost the alcohol level greatly by making applejack, thru a process called freeze distillation. You let the hard cider freeze & throw out the ice. You continue the process until ice no longer forms. Cider is usually under 10% alcohol but applejack can run around 25-40%.
> 
> IMO, having a fruit orchard is a grand thing... and just perfect for prepping. Drops and damaged fruit feeds the farm animals, the apples produce a large amount of healthy calories and making cider is a natural process... as is the next step when it when it naturally wants to go to vinegar. I have mostly apples but also peaches, pears, muscadines, blueberries, blackberries & raspberries. Just strung the wire this afternoon on my new blackberry trellis & worked in the bed where the raspberries will go this spring.
> 
> This is me grabbing incredible blueberries while cutting grass.


Had applejack recently it was pretty damn good.

Your garden is impressive man. I'm jealous a bit to be honest. My garden right now is a cactus and a baby sequoia


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## bigwheel

Nice looking farm stead. Good job. I tried the freeze distillation trick on some fruit wine I made one time. Left in the freezer for a week or so and never could get it to slush up enough to separate the wheat from the chaff. It must have been pretty strong to not like to freeze very well.


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## TGus

******* said:


> I don't understand the point to distill the product into moonshine. Why not just ferment the fruit juice into wine or cider? Then, if you wish, some could be allowed to go to vinegar... another valuable product. I doubt if much of the damaged fruit would be ripe enough to have enough juice & sugar to produce product that would ferment much at all. IMO, a better use for the damaged fruit would be to feed it to the farm animals... which we do even during good times.
> 
> Now maybe your intent is to be able to get a usable product from damaged fruit that might have poisons or harmful microbes in it. That sounds logical but when you consider much of this damaged fruit will not be properly ripened, that means there will be much less sugar to ferment into alcohol. I just really doubt, for all the effort, that you would get much moonshine from this process.
> ...


Well, I have 2 choices, ferment the fruit into a drinkable wine, or make alcohol and distill it out. Making wine from fruit requires decent fruit, sugar, a champagne yeast, an acid balancer, and possibly a clarifier. As I said, I don't want to waste good fruit and sugar on wine, I wouldn't be able to store the yeast for long, and I wouldn't be able to find more acid balancer or clarifier if I ran out. I could make primitive wine without these ingredients, but it probably wouldn't reliably taste good.

With distilling, I can make a good tasting alcoholic drink by mixing it with fruit juice. Another advantage of alcohol is that it doesn't matter what temperature I store it at; I can always have it. Another factor is that I plan to use damaged fruit, and fruit dropped by squirrels and birds. My defective fruit is always ripe. I was worried that the fruit I use may not be sweet enough, so I thought to add starch via acorn meal. The person who suggested Palinka above, gives me hope that fruit alone may work, -though I intend to experiment with acorn meal too.


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## TGus

bigwheel said:


> Right. its a by product of fermentation. Distillation removes it if a person wants it gone. Good "cuts" gets rid of it. All the crappy alcohols have a lower boiling point than ethanol..so they come out first and are called "heads." On a ten gallon run that should be about a half pint of liquid. Smells horrible like acetone and should be discarded or used for starting a fire or something. Many commercial operations dont bother to remove it..and that gives a bad head ache. After the heads come the hearts..which is the goal. By the same token at the end of the run the distillate gets weaker and starts smelling like dirty gym socks. That starts at about 70 proof. Dont hurt a thing to drink it and it can sometimes be allowed to dissipate by leaving a jar full of the stuff exposed to the air. The tails are also included in several brands of cheap whiskey.


That's a really good point you made about Methyl alcohol having a lower evaporation point than Ethyl, so it comes out of the distiller first. Methyl alcohol is actually poisonous and it has a very slight bluish color. Don't include it with the rest of your distillate. It's crazy that I rarely see moonshiners warning about this.


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## TGus

Ragnarök said:


> I would think a decent tasting wine or spirit could be valuable as a bartering item.
> 
> You could look at beets to make a spirit. The high sugar content you can make rum with them. You could do the same with carrots and sweet potatoes. You could use honey suckle as a natural yeast.
> 
> Yeast Strains ? SouthYeast Labs
> 
> There are many options to start with. It is a skill so practice is everything if you want a good product.
> 
> When you say you do not want to add sugar and yeast...do you mean store bought? There are lots of natural occurring sources of both that you could grow or harvest from the forest. Safe flowers are a good source of yeast strains.... honeysuckle is one of my favorites.


Again, if I can use something to feed my family, I'm not going to waste it on making spirits.

I _do_ wish we had honeysuckle, but it's banned in several New England states, including mine, -so I've never even seen it.


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## azrancher

TGus said:


> Maybe someone could help me out with an idea I have for making moonshine without cornmeal and sugar next Fall.


I've seen some good comments on the Head, Hearts, and Tails of distilling, but need to clarify one thing here, cornmeal will never make moonshine, you use corn, and you've heard of branch water, well you throw the bag of corn in the branch (creek), and let it set for several days, the corn sprouts and that's what converts the carb to sugars, then you can distill it. Moonshiner's use cornmeal to flavor what is basically rum, i.e. sugar fermented.

*Rancher*


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## TGus

azrancher said:


> I've seen some good comments on the Head, Hearts, and Tails of distilling, but need to clarify one thing here, cornmeal will never make moonshine, you use corn, and you've heard of branch water, well you throw the bag of corn in the branch (creek), and let it set for several days, the corn sprouts and that's what converts the carb to sugars, then you can distill it. Moonshiner's use cornmeal to flavor what is basically rum, i.e. sugar fermented.
> 
> *Rancher*


I'm confused. I mixed 5 lbs. cornmeal, 5 lbs. sugar, 5 gal. water, and a pkg of bread yeast at 95 degrees for 4 days, and it produces quite a bit of distilled moonshine. Are you talking about the sugar-less method?


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## Redneck

TGus said:


> I'm confused. I mixed 5 lbs. cornmeal, 5 lbs. sugar, 5 gal. water, and a pkg of bread yeast at 95 degrees for 4 days, and it produces quite a bit of distilled moonshine. Are you talking about the sugar-less method?


I'm confused too. Post SHTF, when folks are starving, you really want to use up all those food items for booze? You think I'm gonna use my sugar stores and corn to make alcohol? NOT A CHANCE. I'll use ripe fruit from my 150+ fruit trees, if I don't need them to feed folks. Corn product (even acorn meal) & sugar provides nutrition and calories. Food on the table comes first.


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## azrancher

TGus said:


> I'm confused. I mixed 5 lbs. cornmeal, 5 lbs. sugar, 5 gal. water, and a pkg of bread yeast at 95 degrees for 4 days, and it produces quite a bit of distilled moonshine. Are you talking about the sugar-less method?


No I'm saying cornmeal will not make ethyl alcohol, or at least not very much it may even make methanol (wood alcohol, you can make it out of logs), which you don't want, you must convert the carbohydrates in all grains to sugars before they will ferment into ethanol, there are MANY good videos on YouTube on how to do it and the chemistry behind it all. To make beer you must malt the Barley before roasting and fermenting, you don't just ferment the Barley. What I said was... in the "movies" they add cornmeal to the sugar fermentation process to add a corn flavor, 180 proof should really have no flavor, and more than 180 proof is real hard to make because it absorbs water out of the air.

_And don't ask me how I know all this..._

*Rancher*


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## azrancher

******* said:


> You think I'm gonna use my sugar stores and corn to make alcohol? NOT A CHANCE. I'll use ripe fruit from my 150+ fruit trees, if I don't need them to feed folks. Corn product (even acorn meal) & sugar provides nutrition and calories. Food on the table comes first.


For preps... I have lots of sugar, because I have no way other than honey bees to get sugar, I over ruled sugar beets when I learned how many I would need to grow!

*Rancher*


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## Inor

Why are you concerned about bakers yeast? Yeast is about the easiest thing there is to grow. A TSP of a decent quality IPA has enough active yeast to start a culture in a 1 oz mixture of sugar and water for a 5 gal carboy of beer. Use a TSP of that to start the next culture and so on. If you cannot spare 1 oz of water and sugar to keep a culture going, booze ain't gonna help you anyway.


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## Redneck

Inor said:


> Why are you concerned about bakers yeast? Yeast is about the easiest thing there is to grow. A TSP of a decent quality IPA has enough active yeast to start a culture in a 1 oz mixture of sugar and water for a 5 gal carboy of beer. Use a TSP of that to start the next culture and so on. If you cannot spare 1 oz of water and sugar to keep a culture going, booze ain't gonna help you anyway.


Yes, yeast is everywhere, but there are zillions of strains... all with their own characteristics & taste profiles. That is why, thru trial & error folks have saved specific varieties for specific purposes. That being said, pretty much any wild yeast will make bread & alcohol... just may not taste as you are accustomed.

IMO, the making of alcoholic drink is not a SHTF task. During a SHTF crisis, all resources need to be applied to feeding folks. Now if/when we start coming out of the crisis, alcohol will be in great demand & will be a valuable commodity. Those that have the resources already in place, will benefit greatly IMO.


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## The Tourist

I do know you can buy some off brands of Russian Vodka for a few dollars per gallon. I've heard that professional cleaning ladies use it for stains.

What would be wrong with buying a few gallons of it now to use it as a disinfectant, a cleaner or even barter bait? Just because you own it that doesn't mean you have to drink it.


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## Redneck

azrancher said:


> For preps... I have lots of sugar, because I have no way other than honey bees to get sugar, I over ruled sugar beets when I learned how many I would need to grow!


Same here. Lots of sugar in storage plus corn syrup. Bee hives are in storage in the barn for a long term crisis. Would split some of my neighbor's hives


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## azrancher

The Tourist said:


> I do know you can buy some off brands of Russian Vodka for a few dollars per gallon. I've heard that professional cleaning ladies use it for stains.
> 
> What would be wrong with buying a few gallons of it now to use it as a disinfectant, a cleaner or even barter bait? Just because you own it that doesn't mean you have to drink it.


Without a source, it doesn't exist.

And if you can buy it mail order it is probably de-natured, i.e. contains Methanol.

*Rancher*


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## 1skrewsloose

This^^^^, I was born at night, but not last night.


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## The Tourist

azrancher said:


> Without a source, it doesn't exist.


I understand. I went to Bing and typed in "*cheap bulk vodka gallon*." This popped up. Now I'm not a drinker or a cleaning lady, but am I on the right path of research?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Package-...hash=item460c97e8ab:m:mSJsu0mBscTewVaK28dt9dw


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## bigwheel

TGus said:


> Well, I have 2 choices, ferment the fruit into a drinkable wine, or make alcohol and distill it out. Making wine from fruit requires decent fruit, sugar, a champagne yeast, an acid balancer, and possibly a clarifier. As I said, I don't want to waste good fruit and sugar on wine, I wouldn't be able to store the yeast for long, and I wouldn't be able to find more acid balancer or clarifier if I ran out. I could make primitive wine without these ingredients, but it probably wouldn't reliably taste good.
> 
> With distilling, I can make a good tasting alcoholic drink by mixing it with fruit juice. Another advantage of alcohol is that it doesn't matter what temperature I store it at; I can always have it. Another factor is that I plan to use damaged fruit, and fruit dropped by squirrels and birds. My defective fruit is always ripe. I was worried that the fruit I use may not be sweet enough, so I thought to add starch via acorn meal. The person who suggested Palinka above, gives me hope that fruit alone may work, -though I intend to experiment with acorn meal too.


In dire straights a person might need to forget the fancy stuff and make Cowboy wine. Thats sugar..water and how much fruits or veggies a person can acquire. One pinch of bread yeast will bring it to 12%. Can make folks howl at the moon. lol. 
A pal o mine and his neighbor built one of the these by following the directions. He says it works well. I have the bottom half to make one all I need is the plumber to sober up and get on the stick. On mine..it will have the fittings to insert screw in water heater elements. NTP fittings or whatever they are called. Boiler be a 15 gallon SS beer keg. Sitting it up on a turkey burner makes it way too tall...and need a ladder to tend it. I already bought the kit to connect it and the welder pal wallowed out the whole where the check valve thing used to reside. 
He got squirted by some rottone old beer trying to get that thing out..and still gripes. lol 
http://moonshine-still.com/


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## MountainGirl

bigwheel said:


> In dire straights a person might need to forget the fancy stuff and make Cowboy wine. Thats sugar..water and how much fruits or veggies a person can acquire. One pinch of bread yeast will bring it to 12%. Can make folks howl at the moon. lol.
> A pal o mine and his neighbor built one of the these by following the directions. He says it works well. I have the bottom half to make one all I need is the plumber to sober up and get on the stick. On mine..it will have the fittings to insert screw in water heater elements. NTP fittings or whatever they are called. Boiler be a 15 gallon SS beer keg. Sitting it up on a turkey burner makes it way too tall...and need a ladder to tend it. I already bought the kit to connect it and the welder pal wallowed out the whole where the check valve thing used to reside.
> He got squirted by some rottone old beer trying to get that thing out..and still gripes. lol
> Moonshine Still ? A Step by Step Guide to Building a World Class Home Distillation Apparatus


I _knew_ we were missin something up here... Thanks for the link bigwheel!


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## TGus

bigwheel said:


> In dire straights a person might need to forget the fancy stuff and make Cowboy wine. Thats sugar..water and how much fruits or veggies a person can acquire. One pinch of bread yeast will bring it to 12%. Can make folks howl at the moon. lol.
> A pal o mine and his neighbor built one of the these by following the directions. He says it works well. I have the bottom half to make one all I need is the plumber to sober up and get on the stick. On mine..it will have the fittings to insert screw in water heater elements. NTP fittings or whatever they are called. Boiler be a 15 gallon SS beer keg. Sitting it up on a turkey burner makes it way too tall...and need a ladder to tend it. I already bought the kit to connect it and the welder pal wallowed out the whole where the check valve thing used to reside.
> He got squirted by some rottone old beer trying to get that thing out..and still gripes. lol
> Moonshine Still ? A Step by Step Guide to Building a World Class Home Distillation Apparatus


Gone are the days of copper tubing attached to pressure cookers!


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## bigwheel

Some dummies still try it. Learned a log time ago folks get into the shine hobby for different reasons. Some like to tinker..some likes to drink. lol. Some are math major injuneers who carry slide rules. On that particular blue print it calls for a 4" diameter chunk of copper pipe which is higher than a kite and hard to find. Pal finally found me a length of the stuff free but the first plumber who was supposed to build it but didnt..stole the pipe. Thinking since its just for the condenser shroud an empty tin can should work just as well. The rest of the materials is pretty easy to find. Now if you want to connect it to the keg you will need a kit. 
https://milehidistilling.com/product/2-inch-diameter-copper-pipe-to-keg-kit/


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## TGus

The Tourist said:


> I do know you can buy some off brands of Russian Vodka for a few dollars per gallon. I've heard that professional cleaning ladies use it for stains.
> 
> What would be wrong with buying a few gallons of it now to use it as a disinfectant, a cleaner or even barter bait? Just because you own it that doesn't mean you have to drink it.


I have a strong feeling that, come SHTF, I'm going to need to *drink *it occasionally.


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## SOCOM42

bigwheel said:


> Some dummies still try it. Learned a log time ago folks get into the shine hobby for different reasons. Some like to tinker..some likes to drink. lol. Some are math major injuneers who carry slide rules. On that particular blue print it calls for a 4" diameter chunk of copper pipe which is higher than a kite and hard to find. Pal finally found me a length of the stuff free but the first plumber who was supposed to build it but didnt..stole the pipe. Thinking since its just for the condenser shroud an empty tin can should work just as well. The rest of the materials is pretty easy to find. Now if you want to connect it to the keg you will need a kit.
> https://milehidistilling.com/product/2-inch-diameter-copper-pipe-to-keg-kit/


Copper is used for its reaction to neutralizing certain chemicals bad for you.

On flea bay you can get copper washers for filler in a reflux still.

Most math kids today have never seen a slide rule, I gave up mine for a HP scientific calculator in 1986 I think.

pipe; https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-COPPER-P...309172?hash=item2f1061d234:g:WOoAAOSwbF1aKCls

filter; https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Liter-Ra...495826&hash=item19ea42a2b2:g:xcIAAMXQydtTKyoN


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## TGus

The Tourist said:


> I understand. I went to Bing and typed in "*cheap bulk vodka gallon*." This popped up. Now I'm not a drinker or a cleaning lady, but am I on the right path of research?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Package-...hash=item460c97e8ab:m:mSJsu0mBscTewVaK28dt9dw


That bucket reminds me of how my wife makes 5 gal. buckets of rice wine at a time. It's easy. Throw in a few pounds of well-cooked rice, and a starter ball you can buy cheap at any oriental goods store. Let it sit for a few weeks, and when it tastes the way you like it, strain it and wring out the rice in a cloth bag. Tastes pretty good, and has a surprising kick to it. You can also eat the rice as a breakfast porridge. It's a great way to start the day, -unless you'll be driving.


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## Ragnarök

TGus said:


> That bucket reminds me of how my wife makes 5 gal. buckets of rice wine at a time. It's easy. Throw in a few pounds of well-cooked rice, and a starter ball you can buy cheap at any oriental goods store. Let it sit for a few weeks, and when it tastes the way you like it, strain it and wring out the rice in a cloth bag. Tastes pretty good, and has a surprising kick to it. You can also eat the rice as a breakfast porridge. It's a great way to start the day, -unless you'll be driving.


Do you have a recipe for the rice wine? Just tried soju a few weeks ago it's better than sake imo.


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## TGus

Ragnarök said:


> Do you have a recipe for the rice wine? Just tried soju a few weeks ago it's better than sake imo.


I'll ask my Chinese wife, and I promise to get it for you soon. I should know how to make it, since I drink it, but we parcel out our tasks around here.


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## bigwheel

The rice wine sounds like a good plan. Found this recipe until TGus can get Mama to give us the scoop. Sorta wondering why a person couldnt use regular old yeast and skip the yeast ball...unless it has some kinda secret properties of which we is unaware. 
https://www.splendidtable.org/recipes/rice-wine


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## Maine-Marine

wine will be the easiest to make....


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## TGus

Ragnarök said:


> Do you have a recipe for the rice wine? Just tried soju a few weeks ago it's better than sake imo.


Making Rice Wine

Ingredients: "glutinous" or "sticky" rice, and 2 Chinese yeast "wine" balls. (Both ingredients are very cheap.)

1.	Pour 10 lbs. of rice into a 5 gal. bucket
2.	Keep adding and pouring out water to fill the bucket while using your hands to rinse the rice until the water is close to clear. (If you don't wash the rice well, the wine will be sour.)
3.	Leave the rice in the water for less than a day.
4.	Cook the rice thoroughly. (We steam it in batches.) 
5.	When the grains are soft, but not mushy, let the rice cool on a cookie pan.
6.	Crush 2 Chinese yeast "wine" balls into powder. (You can put them in a baggie, and hit them with a mallet.)
7.	Thoroughly mix the powder with the rice.
8.	Crush the mixture down into the 5 gal. bucket, and put a dimple in the center of the mixture.
9.	Loosely cover the bucket, so dust doesn't get in and carbon dioxide can get out. (My wife just puts the cover on without tightening it down.)
10.	Put the bucket in the warmest place in your house. (Room temperature is OK.)
11.	After a few weeks, the wine will form at the bottom, and the rice will liquefy and float on top.
12.	After a couple weeks, taste the wine every few days, until you want to bottle it. (It will go from sweet to neutral to sour. If this is your first time, just keep trying it until it gets to the point where you don't like it. This way, you can figure out what you like best. )
13.	When you decide to bottle it, strain it through a strainer and muslin cloth, then wring the rest of the wine out of it. This will get you about a gallon of wine.
14.	Put it in the refrigerator to store it. (You can eat the leftover rice too.)

(If the wine is too strong, my wife said that you can put as much water as you have rice in the bucket after a few days of fermenting.)

If you want to, you can probably find pictures of the process using Google.


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## Ragnarök

TGus said:


> Making Rice Wine
> 
> Ingredients: "glutinous" or "sticky" rice, and 2 Chinese yeast "wine" balls. (Both ingredients are very cheap.)
> 
> 1.	Pour 10 lbs. of rice into a 5 gal. bucket
> 2.	Keep adding and pouring out water to fill the bucket while using your hands to rinse the rice until the water is close to clear. (If you don't wash the rice well, the wine will be sour.)
> 3.	Leave the rice in the water for less than a day.
> 4.	Cook the rice thoroughly. (We steam it in batches.)
> 5.	When the grains are soft, but not mushy, let the rice cool on a cookie pan.
> 6.	Crush 2 Chinese yeast "wine" balls into powder. (You can put them in a baggie, and hit them with a mallet.)
> 7.	Thoroughly mix the powder with the rice.
> 8.	Crush the mixture down into the 5 gal. bucket, and put a dimple in the center of the mixture.
> 9.	Loosely cover the bucket, so dust doesn't get in and carbon dioxide can get out. (My wife just puts the cover on without tightening it down.)
> 10.	Put the bucket in the warmest place in your house. (Room temperature is OK.)
> 11.	After a few weeks, the wine will form at the bottom, and the rice will liquefy and float on top.
> 12.	After a couple weeks, taste the wine every few days, until you want to bottle it. (If this is your first time, just keep trying it until it gets to the point where you don't like it. This way, you can figure out what you like best. )
> 13.	When you decide to bottle it, strain it, then put the rice in a cloth bag and wring the rest of the wine out of it. This will get you about a gallon of wine.
> 14.	Put it in the refrigerator to store it.
> 15.	(If the wine is too strong, my wife said that you can put as much water as you have rice in the bucket after a few days of fermenting.)
> 
> If you want to, you can probably find pictures of the process using Google.


Awesome. I'll write this down in my recipe journal. Thank you for taking the time to find this.


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## TGus

Ragnarök said:


> Awesome. I'll write this down in my recipe journal. Thank you for taking the time to find this.


I didn't have to go far; my wife lives with me.


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## bigwheel

Thanks a lot. Gonna give this a spin. We dont live far from a part of the metromess called Litle Saigon. I bet they have the ingredients.


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## Mad Trapper

This thread has been an interesting read, there are a lot of misconceptions concerning the distillation and fermentation processes.........

Methanol is not bluish , but it does have a higher vapor pressure ( lower b.p. = 65 oC) than ethanol ~ 78 oC. It is not real easy to fractionate two liquids with such similar boiling points, but the early run will contain more of the methanol if present.

The reason you can only distill "grain" ethanol out to 95% alcohol (190 proof), is because it forms an azeotrope with water of that composition. That is the 95% mixture behaves as a pure liquid and re-distillation will give no further purification. The azeotrope has about the same b.p. as pure ethanol.

The amount of methanol produced in fermentation is related to the nature of the materials being fermented and also the strains of yeast and other microbes present performing the fermentation.

Materials high in pectins tend to produce more methanol, as the pectins are methyl esters, and can be hydrolyzed by reaction with water to produce methanol.

This hydrolysis can occur more rapidly from pectin containing material when it is heated ( e.g. distilled), so it would be best to clarify any mother liquor of pectins before distillation.

There are also enzymes in yeast, bacteria and fungi (pectin methyl esterase, PME) which catalyze the same, methanol producing hydrolytic process, on pectins. The PME enzyme content can vary significantly among yeasts, wild and commercial. The use of a standard commercial yeast with low PME enzyme content would reduce the amount of methanol produced, in particular if the material was Pasteurized/boiled before fermentation to eliminate the: wild yeasts, bacteria and fungi present.

There is also a slew of other volatile compounds produced in mixed culture fermentation, some are quite toxic, while others may contribute to the "flavor" of the brew.

Note that many types of mash are boiled prior to fermentation, and allowing the fermentation to take place, using commercial yeasts, in sterile containers with air locks, will minimize methanol formation.


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## Annie

I've never tasted moonshine. Does it put hair on your chest? On my bucket list: how to make dandelion wine.


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## Annie

TGus said:


> Making Rice Wine
> 
> Ingredients: "glutinous" or "sticky" rice, and 2 Chinese yeast "wine" balls. (Both ingredients are very cheap.)
> 
> 1.	Pour 10 lbs. of rice into a 5 gal. bucket
> 2.	Keep adding and pouring out water to fill the bucket while using your hands to rinse the rice until the water is close to clear. (If you don't wash the rice well, the wine will be sour.)
> 3.	Leave the rice in the water for less than a day.
> 4.	Cook the rice thoroughly. (We steam it in batches.)
> 5.	When the grains are soft, but not mushy, let the rice cool on a cookie pan.
> 6.	Crush 2 Chinese yeast "wine" balls into powder. (You can put them in a baggie, and hit them with a mallet.)
> 7.	Thoroughly mix the powder with the rice.
> 8.	Crush the mixture down into the 5 gal. bucket, and put a dimple in the center of the mixture.
> 9.	Loosely cover the bucket, so dust doesn't get in and carbon dioxide can get out. (My wife just puts the cover on without tightening it down.)
> 10.	Put the bucket in the warmest place in your house. (Room temperature is OK.)
> 11.	After a few weeks, the wine will form at the bottom, and the rice will liquefy and float on top.
> 12.	After a couple weeks, taste the wine every few days, until you want to bottle it. (It will go from sweet to neutral to sour. If this is your first time, just keep trying it until it gets to the point where you don't like it. This way, you can figure out what you like best. )
> 13.	When you decide to bottle it, strain it through a strainer and muslin cloth, then wring the rest of the wine out of it. This will get you about a gallon of wine.
> 14.	Put it in the refrigerator to store it. (You can eat the leftover rice too.)
> 
> (If the wine is too strong, my wife said that you can put as much water as you have rice in the bucket after a few days of fermenting.)
> 
> If you want to, you can probably find pictures of the process using Google.


This post deserves a printing out for a hard copy for hard times.


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## Mad Trapper

Some references:

A good general reference to distilling: https://homedistiller.org/intro/intro

Methanol in fermented beverages: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5028366/

Pectin content: https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/download/22783/PDF

Some good fermentation chemistry: http://http://www.uvm.edu/~dmatthew/Beer-Green_Mt_ACS.pdf

And found in the last reference ( D E Matthews), observations taken from the "bible" of sophomore Organic Chemistry, the text of Morrison and Boyd:

Morrison and Boyd, 
Organic Chemistry

The first chemical synthesis by man was the production of ethanol by fermentation

Ethanol production preceded the synthesis of soap

Conclusion:

Man's desire for intoxication precedes man's desire for cleanliness


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## Redneck

Annie said:


> This post deserves a printing out for a hard copy for hard times.


That's the thing I don't get about this discussion. *In hard times*, who would trade the food value of 10 lbs of rice to get one gallon of wine? Even then, where you gonna find Chinese yeast wine balls?


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## Annie

******* said:


> That's the thing I don't get about this discussion. *In hard times*, who would trade the food value of 10 lbs of rice to get one gallon of wine? Even then, where you gonna find Chinese yeast wine balls?


Depends on _how_ hard the times are, I suppose. But your point is well taken. :tango_face_smile:


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## Mad Trapper

******* said:


> That's the thing I don't get about this discussion. *In hard times*, who would trade the food value of 10 lbs of rice to get one gallon of wine? Even then, where you gonna find Chinese yeast wine balls?


For my ciders and meads I keep a few packets of champagne yeast in the fridge/freezer. You don't need the whole packet, take a pinch and nurse it along with some yeast nutrient to get it going then dump it into what you'll be brewing. Champagne yeast is good as it will keep going even when the alcohol concentration of the ferment gets so high it would pickle other yeasts

I store what apples I can by canning/cold cellar/drying, but I' "save" some as hard cider. That cider can be converted vinegar easy, and the "mother" from either can be used to start the next batch of brew.

Have not distilled any cider but have made applejack.

A friend makes great wines and his Grappa is outstanding. Has been know to "blind" people, but they do recover in a few hours........


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## Redneck

Mad Trapper said:


> For my ciders and meads I keep a few packets of champagne yeast in the fridge/freezer. You don't need the whole packet, take a pinch and nurse it along with some yeast nutrient to get it going then dump it into what you'll be brewing. Champagne yeast is good as it will keep going even when the alcohol concentration of the ferment gets so high it would pickle other yeasts
> 
> I store what apples I can by canning/cold cellar/drying, but I' "save" some as hard cider. That cider can be converted vinegar easy, and the "mother" from either can be used to start the next batch of brew.


I too keep champagne yeast in the freezer but unless you have campden tablets or similar to kill of the native yeast, airlocks, etc. the stored yeast won't do much good.

I just don't see the making of alcoholic drink a wise utilization of resources during a SHTF crisis... especially distilled booze. At least with wine & cider, you still get a lot of the natural vitamins & minerals. When you distill this, you take away all the goodness & get alcohol.

IMO, the making of alcoholic drink will come after the crisis passes, or mostly passes. During the crisis, most of my apples & fruit would be used for nutrition. The only exception would be to make vinegar, to be used for food preservation... important in warm climates like mine. Thing about making apple cider vinegar is, you can forget about all the fancy yeasts, fermentation devices & airlocks. You can just cover a large container of fresh cider with cheesecloth, to keep out the bugs & whatever, and let the sugar in the juice ferment naturally using whatever wild yeasts you have. Once they make enough alcohol, the natural acetic acid bacteria will transform the alcohol into acetic acid. Granted, you can use the fermentation tools to make a more consistent product, which I personally prep to do. To me this is the skill preppers need. How to make alcohol/vinegar to help you survive... not get drunk.

From https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com

_Cover the top of the jar with your cloth and secure with a large rubber band. Place the jar in a warm and dark place, such as a warm kitchen cupboard above the refrigerator. Let the mix ferment for about 1 week, stirring gently once or twice a day. It will start to fizz and bubble, and smell like a microbrewery, as the sugar ferments into alcohol. It will also start to cloud and thicken, making a viscous liquid. You've now made a very coarse if somewhat weak hard cider, known as scrumpy in the West Country of England. Agricultural workers there, and where there used to be an abundance of apple orchards, were once paid-in part-with flagons of scrumpy. It's very nutritious and lightly alcoholic.

After about another 7 to 9 days, often when the apple pieces no longer float but sink to the bottom of the jar, the apple cider is ready to be converted to vinegar. It's perfectly acceptable to leave the jar to ferment for much longer, say 6 weeks, and as every batch is different, it's good to experiment. You will end up with different flavors and strengths of apple cider vinegar.

Stage 2: From apple cider to apple cider vinegar- the secondary fermentation

The apples have done their work, so strain off the pieces by pouring the cider through a sieve into the 4 x 1-quart glass jars. If you like, you can mash up the apple pieces and press their juices out, and add this to the jars. Cover each jar with a fresh piece of cloth and secure with a rubber band.

Leave alone in a warm, dark environment for another 3 to 4 weeks to allow the acetic acid bacteria to transform the alcohol into acetic acid. During this secondary fermentation the odor will shift from a sharp alcohol to tart vinegar, and some sediment will form at the base as well as, thrillingly, a culture known as the mother. You see the mother as threads in the liquid and perhaps as a disk on the surface of each jar. The mother of vinegar is a living thing, perfectly harmless to consume and formed of apple residues, enzymes, and acetic acid bacteria.

From 3 weeks onward, gently push aside the mother to taste your apple cider vinegar to see if it is ready. Once it has the right level of sourness for you, remove the mother, if one has fully formed, keeping her immersed in a jar of apple cider ready for the next batch. Most commercially produced apple cider vinegars have a declared acidity (pH) of 4.5 to 5, where in pH terms, 7 is neutral and 0 is most acidic.

Pour off the vinegar, leaving behind the residue, which you can compost. Store in clean glass jars with secure lids or snap-top bottles._


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## bigwheel

Annie said:


> I've never tasted moonshine. Does it put hair on your chest? On my bucket list: how to make dandelion wine.


Well moonshine can be as strong as you want it up to 190 proof or thereabouts. Just mix it with distilled water till you hit however strong you want on the downward scale. If a person wants to make pretend bourbon or scotch out of it using wood chips or scorched barrels etc. it needs to be at least 140 proof to leach out the flavorings within a reasonable time frame. Depending on what is in the wash or mash it can have subtle flavor nuances...or it can be made absoloutely tasteless. There is one recipe floating around which uses Tomato paste as a yeast nutrient. Makes a vodka as smooth as Stolis. Favorite among the licensed ethanol fuel makers too. Now Tomato sauce do not work. Kindly dont ask how I know that..lol. 
Distill It


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## A Watchman

Or ..... in a SHTF scenario, the liquor store is gonna be one of the last places to close shop. Booze has always traded well in the dark.


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## Mariano

Guys, if someone need information about making alcohol, please just let me know. In Poland many people make an alcohol as an hobby. So do I. My favorite is made of european plums and aged for one year in oak barrels.

There's also plenty of internet forums to learn from. One of my friends invested a lot of money into proffesional equipment and his stuff is extremely good


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## jimb1972

Smitty901 said:


> People here have been making Wine, beer, a so called Moon shine from the day they got here. Many some high quality stuff. In Wisconsin it is legal to make it for personal use. Don't drink it myself but it has other uses. SHTF sugar is a problem but sugar beets can be a work around.
> 100 acre corn filed out the back door . Whole cob corn store in a vented crib last a long time .


There may not be any state laws, but it is still (pun intended) illegal under federal law. Iowa is the same way.


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## Smitty901

jimb1972 said:


> There may not be any state laws, but it is still (pun intended) illegal under federal law. Iowa is the same way.


 Pot aint legal by feds but they high as a kite in a few states now and getting worst. No laws any more on suggestions.


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## BerryTaylor

Great Post


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## bigwheel

jimb1972 said:


> There may not be any state laws, but it is still (pun intended) illegal under federal law. Iowa is the same way.


How true. Make beer and wine all you want and its total legal around here. Production of ethanol is illegal without a Federal permit which cost 35 bucks and takes sixth months to get one all over the US. As far as we learned in moonshine making school. The equipment is total legal in Texas..but in Florididdy and other states most likely the equipment has to registered with the State. The folks who make the stills were and maybe still are under orders from the bureaucrats to turn over the names and info on anybody who buys there equipment. Thats why I got a nasty letter from the infernal revenooers or whatever they currently call themselves. They sent me a nasty letter. Made me sell my stuff to a Gypsy for cash at a loss. Buy a used one young man. Or make your own if you know how to use a solder gun and have some large bore copper or SS pipe laying around. SS stack needs copper packing. The product mustg come in some contact with copper to remove the sulfides at some stage of production. Or so they say.


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