# Number of guns...



## JanerichoC18 (Jul 4, 2013)

Recently I put together an owned/want list. As I put the list together I realized I only owed 2 guns which is my .22 long rifle and my .30-06. My goal is to have two of every weapon for 2 reasons, one for my girlfriend and one for me, also to have a backup for every gun if one goes down. Ultimately I want 2 of each of these weapons which are, .22 long rifle, .22 hand gun, .45 hand gun, AR-15, .30-06, 12 Gauge, and just in case cross bows. I know this is a lot and will probably be a few years before I can get them all but the fact is I am young and don't have whole lot else to spend my money on so I may as well plan for the future. These weapons I figure give me common ammo/hunting and varmint with the .22, short range combat with the .45, mid range combat with the AR-15, long range combat/hunting with the .30-06, and big game/door busters with the 12 gauge. I want to get one of each first then try to double up. The Crossbow is the Plan B of it all I can't run out of ammo and it isn't loud. What would you take off this list or add to this list, and at what point am I going overboard with the guns. I have an ammo breakdown for each weapon but I think I should figure out the weapon part first and the ammo part second.

::redsnipe::


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I hate to rain on your dreams but at this point I would suggest stocking up on ammo for the 2 guns you do have before you add more guns. 

So once you have 5000 rounds of .22 and let us say 400 rounds of 30-06 (great gun) then you can buy your next one on your list (hint 12 gauge)

Then stock up on ammo for that, 

Then go the next gun etc.

IMO the only thing you lack right now is a sufficient supply of ammo and a 12GA riot gun.


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## JanerichoC18 (Jul 4, 2013)

Montana Rancher said:


> I hate to rain on your dreams but at this point I would suggest stocking up on ammo for the 2 guns you do have before you add more guns.
> 
> So once you have 5000 rounds of .22 and let us say 400 rounds of 30-06 (great gun) then you can buy your next one on your list (hint 12 gauge)
> 
> ...


.30-06 is close to being stocked up, .22 is far from it however that is probably the easiest gun to get ammo for, but I will work on that first. I think I tend to get too excited over the gun to think to full stock enough ammo. So basically load up for the .22 and the .30-06 get a 12GA- load up on that next then anything after that is icing on the cake I take it?


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Of course not!

Fool 

HEHE

Here is the dealo

.22 is great for harvesting small game and training

30-06 is great for taking game and the occasional bad guy

12ga is great for close quarters combat and dropping them where they stand.

What is lacking is your "OMG mutant zombie attack' which is a different can of worms.

If you expect to engage the zombies at decent range (country living) then get a .223 AR, if you expect closer ranges (city living) then get a "AK" or "Mac90"


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## AvengersAssembled (Dec 13, 2012)

My want list for guns is way too long, and grows longer each day lol As it stands, I currently have the following : 1) Rossi Youth single shot .22/.410; 2) Westernfield M832 bolt action .22; 3) Ruger Mini-14; 4) M1 Carbine; 5) Mossberg 464 .30-30; 6) Ruger American .308; 7) Ruger Blackhawk Convertible .357/9mm. I get ammo for them when I can at a decent deal, I've been working on extending my ammo stores before adding another gun to the family, which can be hard! My want list, realistically and as of now, are a Ruger 10/22, pump action 20 gauge, 1911, and a semi-auto 9mm I can carry. But yes, I say try to add on ammo at this point in tie, but I am not really willing to pay crazy and sky high prices.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I recently considered adding another caliber to my stock. You may have notices I didn't mention the actual gun or caliber as it is not relevant to my post. 

If you want to "add" a gun then you need to "add" ammo, reloading dies, powder, primers, bullets, gun safe space, cost of optics, cases, PRACTICE TIME, cleaning and re-zeroing every year at the least.

So the gun costs... example $600, you need to add $1200 to the price to cover all the other items, so your $600 gun is really a $1800 investment.

So my advice for the new preppers is to concentrate on FEW guns with really good logistics rather than a gun safe full of guns with no support whatsoever

Avengers, WTF you really want a 30-30?!!!

I marvel at the number of people that focus on the 30-30, what a total piece of crap when the SHTF. Do the ballistics, figure the rate of fire, look at the options for mounting optics and then you will see The only possible redemption for a 30-30 is that there will be so many rounds pilfered off of dead bodies that it will be cheap to shoot.


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## AvengersAssembled (Dec 13, 2012)

The .30-30 was a present from my husband while he was deployed in the middle east last summer on my 20th birthday, and the M1 a present from my grandpa on my 21st. The way I see it, a free for me gun is fine to have fun with for the time being. Is the .30-30 my go to gun for an emergency? No way. But is it fun to mess around with on family shooting days? Oh yes. I know it's ballistics are terrible at any long distance, but it sure can make a milk jug explode


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I am like you.. My fiance is a former police officer and loves here guns.. So whenever I buy myself one, she is usually lookin at me like she wants one too.. Which is good. At least she isn't the kind of woman who bitches about spending money on guns,ammo and other good stuff..
Our main calibers are .45,.308,.5.56/223,12 guage and .22 rifle/handgun... I also have a 22-250 and a 220 swift. For each of those calibers I will say we are stocked pretty heavily.. I also have a 22-250 and a 220 swift and am about to acquire a 300 win mag or 300 norma.. Haven't decided just yet.. Then I have the guns I have been aquiring over the years such as a few single shot 12 guages older .22 rifles and a few I am not goin to mention here... Like Montana Rancher said.. Ammo Ammo Ammo and it is a good idea to invest in reloading supplies..

Just don't forget other off grid things you will want...It's not all guns,ammo and self defense.. You still have to eat and have shelter and have quality water!


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

A gun without ammo is an expensive club. And not a good club at that. I think you're better off buying a gun, than some ammo to feed it, another gun, some ammo to feed it and so on till you have what you want. That way at least you've always have guns and ammo, instead of guns and no ammo. I know quite a few people like that. Who are a few boxes away from having their guns empty when the times comes. I'm sure as hell not giving them mine. I like to stay to the most heavily used calibers in relation to societies use, the police and the military for commonality purpose and the higher possibility of keeping them feed when the country falls apart. To me that's .22lr, 9mm, .223/5/56x45mm, .308/7.62x51mm and 12 gauge. Others are simply extra's, but still not the most common.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Montana Rancher said:


> I hate to rain on your dreams but at this point I would suggest stocking up on ammo for the 2 guns you do have before you add more guns.
> 
> So once you have 5000 rounds of .22 and let us say 400 rounds of 30-06 (great gun) then you can buy your next one on your list (hint 12 gauge)
> 
> ...


I completely agree with this logic although I would choose a defensive handgun first over the shotgun. I used to be of the same opinion on the shotgun until I read Ferfal's post on the collapes of Argentina. His reasons for choosing a handgun first made a whole lot of sense when I sat back and gave it some serious thought...he made a lot of good points!!! Dont get me wrong the shotgun is a great tool for many situations and most definitely deserves a spot in everyones collection, it just wouldnt be one of my first three priorities.

I will most definitely second the motion on getting ammo for the 2 guns you already have. It does you no good to have guns without the ammo. It relegates you to having an expensive club for all intents and purposes. I mean really...Does a plumber put a faucet in the wall and not connect it to any pipes? I would get in the habit of buying a box or two of something every pay day. You see the state of ammo availability today and this is the second major drought in ammo we have had in the last 5 years. Dont think for a second its the last and it might not be even worse next time, its a very real possibility that faces gun owners today. I got caught with less ammo than I felt comfortable with the last time we had a ammo shortage and I had a lot on hand and easily made it through unlike many of my compadres. But I learned a valuable lesson in the process and when the last ammo shortage hit...I wasnt sweating it at all. Despite as soon as this drought on ammo eases, I will go back to buying several boxes a pay day until I think I have enough to last me a life time! Many laughed at me and thought I was a little out there, but after this drought hit they werent laughing anymore and many of them were almost willing to sell both their testicles to buy enough ammo off me to do their annual re-qual. Many of them are now telling me they are going to take a page from my "Play Book" and start doing the same once the shortage eases. I would suggest you do the same.

I think too it would be wise after getting both of you a defensive handgun that you work on getting one of each of your selection first. This will allow you to work as a team and have multiple tools available to compliment each other. IE...one working the AR taking on intermediate threats while the other takes up a defensive posture with the 12 guage to zero in on up close immediate threats that may have slipped past the person using the AR that need to be neutralized right here right now! Then you can work on getting another fire arm of each selection so that you have 2 of each type.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Fuzzee said:


> *A gun without ammo is an expensive club. And not a good club at that. I think you're better off buying a gun, than some ammo to feed it, another gun, some ammo to feed it and so on till you have what you want.* That way at least you've always have guns and ammo, instead of guns and no ammo. I know quite a few people like that. Who are a few boxes away from having their guns empty when the times comes. I'm sure as hell not giving them mine. I like to stay to the most heavily used calibers in relation to societies use, the police and the military for commonality purpose and the higher possibility of keeping them feed when the country falls apart. To me that's .22lr, 9mm, .223/5/56x45mm, .308/7.62x51mm and 12 gauge. Others are simply extra's, but still not the most common.


Ya beat me to it.

I know some that have multiple calibers with only a few boxes of each. Slow and steady. Build up your ammo so if something does go wrong you won't be out of the fight early on. Buying into the most common calibers will help you replenish later.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Ammo issue dose become a big part . However you can get it just not all at once.
I would add an AR 5.56 in the mix it is a double duty weapon 
Hand gun while not the best defense weapon you should have one or two around
Hard call budget time all come into play something is better than nothing


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

LunaticFringeInc said:


> I will most definitely second the motion on getting ammo for the 2 guns you already have. It does you no good to have guns without the ammo. It relegates you to having an expensive club for all intents and purposes. I mean really...Does a plumber put a faucet in the wall and not connect it to any pipes? I would get in the habit of buying a box or two of something every pay day. You see the state of ammo availability today and this is the second major drought in ammo we have had in the last 5 years. Dont think for a second its the last and it might not be even worse next time, its a very real possibility that faces gun owners today. I got caught with less ammo than I felt comfortable with the last time we had a ammo shortage and I had a lot on hand and easily made it through unlike many of my compadres. But I learned a valuable lesson in the process and when the last ammo shortage hit...I wasnt sweating it at all. Despite as soon as this drought on ammo eases, I will go back to buying several boxes a pay day until I think I have enough to last me a life time! Many laughed at me and thought I was a little out there, but after this drought hit they werent laughing anymore and many of them were almost willing to sell both their testicles to buy enough ammo off me to do their annual re-qual. Many of them are now telling me they are going to take a page from my "Play Book" and start doing the same once the shortage eases. I would suggest you do the same.


Just before this shortage hit I bought 2 new calibers. It's taken me a long time to acquire enough ammo to make me comfortable with the amount I have and still have enough to practice with. Practice is a must to become decent with any kind of firearm. Practice and training, I just can't stress that enough. Just owning a firearm does not make you proficient. Get some training. That requires a fair amount of ammo. Now we are back to the beginning. Having enough ammo.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I own a 30.06 for big game, an AK 47 for two legged stuff, an AR 15 for two legged stuff, a .45 for off duty, a .45 for on duty, a .38 for backup, a .50 caliber muzzleloader and an awesome 12 gauge. Plenty of ammo for whatever comes along. between 400-1000 rounds for each gun and growing.

If you are on a budget I would recommend a WASR AK47 ($599.00) 1000 rounds of 7.62x39=$275.00, a Mosin Nagant rifle $119.00 and 880 rounds of surplus 7.62x54R in 440 rd. tins=$200.00. Then, buy a Glock 19=$499.00 and a few hundred rounds of 9mm ball ammo. $300.00. You will be set for any eventuality.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

See if you agree with the following:

Must have guns for survival situations: (in the order of need)

1. Shotgun - It is capable of taking game that is difficult to hit with any other gun. It has more stopping power than any pistol and most rifles (within its limited range). At close range - from a few feet to 70 or more yards - it is capable of killing up to medium sized game. It can defend against any North American animal in close defense. A 12 gauge shotgun is the most versatile weapon in the arsenal although ammo is bulky and heavy. (nothing is perfect)

2. 22 rim-fire rifle that can reliably shoot any of the short, long and long-rifle ammo. The 22 is economical, light weight easy to learn to shoot and can be effective to supply "camp food" or defend against small feline and canine attackers. It has about the same effective range as the shotgun but is quieter, though not as quickly lethal, and is more useful for stationary targets. Ammo is "universal" and most often available anywhere - not so much right now but it will come back - it is light and you can carry a lot of ammo without much weight or bulk.

3. A "hunting" rifle in a caliber selected for its ability to put down large game at long distance and with common availability of ammo. The 308 and 3006 are my choices here but some places the 7x57 Mauser ammo is more readily available. Stay away from calibers that are magnums - the advantage of the extra 200 fps is not great enough to counter the disadvantages of noise and recoil. It should be a bolt action with a sighting system that is good to 300 yards. Ammo is moderately heavy and bulky but one can carry the few rounds it takes to be effective in the field.

4. A magnum revolver that has a good availability of ammo. Where I live this limits one to the 357 magnum. There is the added versatility of using the 38 special ammo, 38+P ammo, and the magnum ammo. It has an effective range similar to the 12 gauge with slightly better accuracy out to at least 100 yards. With the right ammo it has excellent stopping power on animals from 30 pounds to 300 pounds and it is hard to beat against a man. Ammo is light and small so it is easy to carry more than enough for field work. In close defense it is easy to handle with very low recoil. It does have a surprising muzzle flash in low light but less that the larger magnums.

The rest of the guns you own are for more single purpose uses. A semi-auto in 223 or 7,65x39 have the same power as a 30-30 and are for close to medium range use against a large number of attackers. They tend to use a lot of ammo because people tend to shoot faster and less accurately. This is not to say that they cannot be accurate but they are unlikely to print shot groups of sub MOA accuracy like a bolt action rifle. 
Semi-auto hand guns fall into two groups; small caliber (up to 9mm) and large caliber .40 and up. The most common small caliber is the 9mm which has less favorable ballistics than a 38+p ammo in the same bullet weight. The only "advantage" it has over the old 38+p ammo is the number of rounds that a magazine holds. That again causes a lack of shooter accuracy in most cases. (if you only have one round you tend more to make it count) Semi-autos are sometimes a bit finicky unless the correct ammo is used and the gun is kept conspicuously cleaned. Having said that the large bore pistols, specifically the 40 S&W and the 45ACP are two of the best self-defense ammunition ever devised. They are made to stop a person - not to kill - even when on a dead run at you. They are effective in that job but they are not particularly good for anything else. They are not good hunting rounds and not usually accurate enough for small game. 

Last note: If you plane to have enough ammo on hand for ANY event that should arise it would make sense to reload. To reload your brass after it has been fired requires that you have that brass. It can be very difficult to find your brass at the range and almost impossible in the field when using any semi-auto weapon. Military weapons are used in battles where ammo is kept supplied by the military. You won't likely have that advantage in an emergency - even if you might be able to take ammo off the dead it is unlikely to replace the ammo you expend.

Ultimately what you choose to have in your gun rack will reflect what you feel is best for you and how you envision the position you will be in under the circumstances of the events you consider. The choices are yours.

In my "weapons locker" I have several 12 gauge and a couple 20 gauge shotguns, a few 22 bolt action rifles, several hunting rifles in both 3006 and larger bores that shoot sub-MOA groups (MOA= 1" at 100 yards), a few magnum handguns, and some semi-auto 22's and a couple of SKS rifles. I stock the cheapest ammo for the SKS's because that way it is "throw-away" ammo usually with steel cases that cannot be reloaded. I also have some "specialty" guns that are great for hunting but lack the stopping power, capacity, or lethality for a firefight at all but the closest range. Feel free to discuss and or defend your choices.


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## vandelescrow (Nov 17, 2012)

JanerichoC18 said:


> Recently I put together an owned/want list. As I put the list together I realized I only owed 2 guns
> 
> ::redsnipe::


How does it take putting together a list to "realize" you only have 2 guns? I take it these are closet queens and what you lack is practice and training. It doesn't matter what caliber or how much ammo you have, with out that your more of a danger to your self then what your trying to hit.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

My best advice would be to minimize the amount of different calibers of ammo that you have to store by trying to limit the different caliber guns that you have. Try to have as many guns as you feel necessary, but try to keep common calibers. You can have 100 guns, and thousands of rounds of ammo, but try to stick to about 5 different calibers. For instance, you can have a long shotgun, and a pistol grip riot gun, but make them both 12 guage. If you have a 9mm pistol sidearm, think about a 9mm carbine long gun. Just my 2 cents.


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## JanerichoC18 (Jul 4, 2013)

vandelescrow said:


> How does it take putting together a list to "realize" you only have 2 guns? I take it these are closet queens and what you lack is practice and training. It doesn't matter what caliber or how much ammo you have, with out that your more of a danger to your self then what your trying to hit.


Thank you for dissecting my post.

Actually I used to be in the army where I didn't need to own that many guns since an M-4 with virtually unlimited ammo was supplied for me. I sold a rifle and 2 shotguns, the .22 I don't shoot all the time but the 30-06 I shoot every chance I get since it is a more difficult gun to stay proficient in. If you want to talk about weapons training I can tell you that at no point are my weapons dirty, I've shot expert on numerous occasions and know more than enough safety regulations and rules with weapons

Rather than picking apart posts and making assumptions, constructive criticism would be great. Thank You.


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## JanerichoC18 (Jul 4, 2013)

sparkyprep said:


> My best advice would be to minimize the amount of different calibers of ammo that you have to store by trying to limit the different caliber guns that you have. Try to have as many guns as you feel necessary, but try to keep common calibers. You can have 100 guns, and thousands of rounds of ammo, but try to stick to about 5 different calibers. For instance, you can have a long shotgun, and a pistol grip riot gun, but make them both 12 guage. If you have a 9mm pistol sidearm, think about a 9mm carbine long gun. Just my 2 cents.


I though today about (again well down the line) replacing the .45 and the AR with a FN P90 since the 5.7×28mm is more common and more common in handguns. This would reduce stopping power but make an ammo stock and finding weapons far easier in the future.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Ammo availability must be a consideration, stick with common calibers


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

After careful examination of all the factors, I came up with 5 "should have" guns for me. Your needs may differ.

1... 1911 type .45. I have a lot of years with this type. If I didn't, I would probably gone with a high capacity Glock in .40 S&W

2... A light rifle in .22LR. I went with a Ruger 10/22 with synthetic stock.

3... A "battle rifle." Mine is a Troy 5.56mm carbine with a red dot (technically a red or green T dot) sight.

4... A long range/hunting rifle. I went with a Remington 700 in .308 Win.

5... A weapon for home defense. I went with the Remington 870 12 gauge pump.

All of these calibers are "standard" calibers that are in widespread use and should be fairly easy to obtain. If 300 Win Mag were more common (it's getting there), I would have opted for that in my long range selection because of its better ballistic performance.


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## vandelescrow (Nov 17, 2012)

JanerichoC18 said:


> Thank you for dissecting my post.
> 
> Actually I used to be in the army where I didn't need to own that many guns since an M-4 with virtually unlimited ammo was supplied for me. I sold a rifle and 2 shotguns, the .22 I don't shoot all the time but the 30-06 I shoot every chance I get since it is a more difficult gun to stay proficient in. If you want to talk about weapons training I can tell you that at no point are my weapons dirty, I've shot expert on numerous occasions and know more than enough safety regulations and rules with weapons
> 
> Rather than picking apart posts and making assumptions, constructive criticism would be great. Thank You.


No criticism intended. I read it as you don't shoot very often and that's why didn't know what you had till recently.

I am also ex military and thank you for your service.

some people are commenting about consolidating calibers, I.E. 9mm for pistol and rifle. Only problem with that is it is still a pistol round. the 5.7x28 is a rifle round that FN also makes a pistol for, I think this scenario would be better but that ammo is hard to find right now.

You are ex military so you are very familiar with the M16 (cleaning, clearing, maintenance etc) Id recommend an AR-15, a bull pup chambered in .223 and a pistol variant of the AR-15. The latter will be cumbersome for a pistol but you will only need 1 ammo for all 3, till you get into projectile weights and all that.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> After careful examination of all the factors, I came up with 5 "should have" guns for me. Your needs may differ.
> 
> 1... 1911 type .45. I have a lot of years with this type. If I didn't, I would probably gone with a high capacity Glock in .40 S&W
> 
> ...


All good choices for firearms and you have the basics well covered. Even the "battle" rifle is a good choice as far as I'm concerned. Our personal preference in handguns varies but as long as you have ammo or can get ammo it will serve the purpose.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

Doubling up your weapons sounds ok but I would take the girlfriend out and let her touch off a few rounds of .30-06 and before I spent the money on one for her. The .30-06 while a great cartridge can be kind of punishing to those that are not used to the recoil. I would also have her fire any .45ACP I planned on buying her before I plunked down the cash on one for her, she may find the .45ACP hard to control. Of course if she's competent with the 06 then by all means go ahead and pick one up for her.

-Infidel


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

If it were I, my next weapon would be a shotgun. for a lot of reasons.


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## JanerichoC18 (Jul 4, 2013)

Infidel said:


> Doubling up your weapons sounds ok but I would take the girlfriend out and let her touch off a few rounds of .30-06 and before I spent the money on one for her.


I just had a flash back to when I got my 30-06 put my eye right behind the scope and had a nice black ring around my eye for a few weeks. I'm very glad you said that!


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## JanerichoC18 (Jul 4, 2013)

vandelescrow said:


> No criticism intended. I read it as you don't shoot very often and that's why didn't know what you had till recently.
> 
> I am also ex military and thank you for your service.
> 
> ...


I like that idea far better. After my non productive day at work (recovering from 4th of July) I spent a lot of time today finding sites that sold various parts to guns. Another reason I wanted 2 of every weapon was for spare parts in case things broke down. This idea would allow me to get a general set of spare parts to fix 2 weapons. Obviously some parts wouldn't cross over but finding spare AR parts really isn't that hard and the ease of switching parts out also plays a big factor, .223 may be the way to go.

On a side note, what branch were you in/where did you serve?


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## vandelescrow (Nov 17, 2012)

JanerichoC18 said:


> On a side note, what branch were you in/where did you serve?


I'm retired Air Force, Mostly served in Germany and the Middle East.

I saw your previous post where you mentioned the PS90. I have the USG model, sweet shooting gun but if you have facial hair, it hurts when it gets between the magazine and the stock while shooting.

If your into reloading, I'm reloading .223 with 55 grain FMJ and I found a recipe for those projectiles for the PS90 and they are working great. I don't have the hand gun in 5.7x28 so I don't know how these reloads are in that.

The reason I got the PS90 is because my AR-15 with a 1 point sling, the muzzle almost reaches my ankle when I let it hang, the PS90 almost reaches my knee. I love the AR-15 platform but the PS90 is more compact and much lighter. It is my first "plastic" gun so I'm skeptical about how well they hold up.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

I would recommend you start off by buying a 12 gauge shotgun first. A Remington 870 Express synthetic stock can be had for around $325, and ammo can be found almost anywhere, including at Wal-Mart. Ammo is also inexpensive and was still available during the ammo panics. A 12 gauge is a great choice for self-defense, and will also shoot waterfowl and game to keep you fed in an emergency. And if you have to use it, nothing beats a shotgun for home/self-defense.

Then I would buy an AR-15 because it can be used to take on multiple attackers both in close quarters (within legitimate self-defense distances). You were in the service (thank you for that) and know how valuable these weapons can be. An AR-10 may be a better choice if money is tight; could scratch off two guns off your list with one purchase. Otherwise, get an AR-15/M4.

Then I would look at the sidearm in .45 ACP. Because if your primary goes down, you need to transition. And you want a common caliber that can stop a fight.

You definitely might want to consider a Garand from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. You can get a great all-around weapon and ammo for less than $700.

And you should get a Ruger 10/22 for plinking and small game. These are also available at around $325 to $450 just about anywhere.

And buy ammo anytime you can afford to. Then start buying your spare guns, and more ammo. And set aside some water, food and first aid items ASAP....


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> After careful examination of all the factors, I came up with 5 "should have" guns for me. Your needs may differ.
> 
> 1... 1911 type .45. I have a lot of years with this type. If I didn't, I would probably gone with a high capacity Glock in .40 S&W
> 
> ...


 Covers a lot of bases. I surely will never list what we have anywhere. 
I have limited calibers to 380..38.357,9mm..45 and 45 Colt long . for hand guns The Colt long is not a serious part of the program. I just wanted it.
223 for bolt action . The 5.56,308. 30.06 and 30-30. The 30.06 and 30-30 are left over from old program and still relevant. When you have the weapon already you may as well stock ammo for them.
Then of course 12 ga and .22

The 300 mag has been on my list for sometime I may make the leap one day. It will out preform the 308 at longer distance.
Also I swore I never needed another acp .45. Then 4 July range day I shot 200 rounds through a XD .45 3.3 subcompact.
I was impressed that such a small 45 could shoot as it did.
Guns and Harley are a sickness


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## JanerichoC18 (Jul 4, 2013)

I think from this post this may be my course of action:
Ammo and lots of it to start.
12 gauge next and while I am stocking up on more ammo and this gun I will apply for my carry conceal (Yeah I didn't get that far).
Third move will be a pistol that can shoot .223.
Next is probably an AR after that since I will be stocked up on .223 pretty good by then.

In the meantime we will do the girlfriend shooting the 30-06 experiment, she is a decent shot but the recoil on that gun is a bit of a whore so we'll see how that goes. It seems like everyone here has the same general ideas for guns it's just the preferences and styles that vary. I'm a bit of a gun nut (SHOCKER!) I miss having virtually unlimited range access. Either way this topic has shown a great way to prioritize what guns you should get and when you should get them... still no one mentioned the cross bow wildcard hahaha


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Not every weapon you buy needs to break the budget.
The Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 are outstanding shot guns.
But the Mossberg Maverick model 88 can be had at 159-200 now and will serve anyone well for a 12 ga.
Bolt action 308,270. 30.06 like the Remington 700 and Ruger 77 can still be had a fair price.
Hand guns while not first on my list Hi point will work, Taurus revolvers have proven them self worthy.
Charter Arms all sold at discount prices compared to others.
A bit of home work a bit of saving can lead to a well stocked armory with out a trip to the poor house.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> After careful examination of all the factors, I came up with 5 "should have" guns for me. Your needs may differ.
> 
> 1... 1911 type .45. I have a lot of years with this type. If I didn't, I would probably gone with a high capacity Glock in .40 S&W
> 
> ...


Man I really like this list and the order its in and this definitely mirrors my selections very closely. I think one would be hard pressed to beat a list like this one!!!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

AvengersAssembled said:


> The .30-30 was a present from my husband while he was deployed in the middle east last summer on my 20th birthday, and the M1 a present from my grandpa on my 21st. The way I see it, a free for me gun is fine to have fun with for the time being. Is the .30-30 my go to gun for an emergency? No way. But is it fun to mess around with on family shooting days? Oh yes. I know it's ballistics are terrible at any long distance, but it sure can make a milk jug explode


Nothing wrong with a lever action 30-30. In fact, with the Zimmerman verdict due anytime I've got a Winchester on the back seat of my commuter car along with my standard load of two 357 magnum revolvers (I work inside the perimeter of cracktown in the murder capitol of Florida). I have the means to carry a variety ranging from a Mini 14 to a Garand to an AKM to an M1A but I choose the Winchester 94.
Fast handling, short enough to be deployed inside a vehicle, and the round is a proven killer at self defense distance.
What make is your M-1 Carbine? I've got a 1943 Inland and commercial Auto Ordnance. And I can tell by your Grandpa's gift that he loves you. Is he by any chance an old soldier?


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm an advocate of the five gun system. A high power rifle, a handgun a shotgun and a .22RF, and the fifth being either a military style shotgun or center fire rifle. Stick to common calibers and stock sufficient ammo.

A person who is buying firearms as a prep and who is not going to do anything firearms wise beyond that needs to be able to get the most use out of what they purchase. 

As anexample a basic five gun set up might possibly but not necessarily be...

Centerfire rifle....A Ruger M77 I like the Gunsite scout in .308 
Centerfire pistol...A 1911 I like the Springfield Mil Spec
Shotgun...A Mossberg I like the 500A in 12 ga.
Rimfire......A Ruger 10/22
Military style...A springfield M1A in .308

This is a system I use and it is adaptable, It addresses the issue of what to get by category and leaves the specifics decided by the individuals need taste and budget.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

> As anexample a basic five gun set up might possibly but not necessarily be...
> 
> Centerfire rifle....A Ruger M77 I like the Gunsite scout in .308
> Centerfire pistol...A 1911 I like the Springfield Mil Spec
> ...


I couldnt agree more Seneca and its hard to argue your line of thinking there.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

I see many good solid choices here any of them should serve you well. Avengers Assembled don't under estimate that 30-30 there is not a type of game four legged or two legged on the North American Continent that hasn't gone down before it.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I almost forgot.. I have a 17hmr with a bull barrel setup that I am very happy with.. I was able to pick up several thousand rounds for a good price a while back. It is a very accurate and fast shooting round!


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Montana Rancher said:


> Of course not!
> 
> Fool
> 
> ...


Great words of Wisdom, here.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If the zombies show up I can put together some pipe bombs that will take out more than a few at a time. The reason I don't have them made up in advance is because I don't believe in zombies.
A mob of sheeple on the other hand are easy to deal with. It takes a lot longer for them to cover 100 yards than it does for me to fire my 3006, and it has a good 1000 yard range - not that I could hit anything that far but I can hit a man at 600. (well I used to be able to - with my back injury and not having fired it in 8 years I might not be that good anymore). I should find out next weekend after the small bore silhouette match. The rifle range is right next to the range we use.


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## Lazerus2000 (Jun 15, 2013)

Decades ago I was a contributor to *SURVIVE *magazine. Wayyyyy back then, I almost [ ALMOST ] wrote an updated/ follow up book to Mel Tappan's classic book, *Survival Guns*. 
Aside from the fact that I can word monger on demand, on deadline, for money, my credentials for writing such a book were : 
1.] former infantry officer
2.] over a decade as a professional gunsmith
3.] over a decade as a competitor at practical shooting
4.] have personally owned hundreds of various pistols, rifles, and shotguns

I SERIOUSLY considered writing that book, and then I didn't.
WHY?

Because in my opinion, too many so called survivalists or retreaters or preppers put far too much emphasis on firearms in their planning.

YES,
it is so much better to have a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it.
I have been there both ways, and from personal experience [ being shot at without a gun and being shot at with a gun in my hands ] can not fault the logic of gun ownership. And having a gun can be a comfort and possibly a life saver on those rare occasions when you actually need one. But, with firearms especially, the wrong mental attitude can bite you, or get you killed.

IMHO, too many people are too addicted to the gear, especially GUNS, and not serious enough about TRAINING how to use the gear properly. Just because you bought a guitar, it does NOT mean you are a rock star, or even a decent musician. And just because you bought the best darned gun in the world, it does not make you a gun fighter. And, if you are genuinely serious about "prepping" or "survival" or "retreating", why would you want to be a gun fighter any way?

A short story to illustrate the point.
I was building custom pistols and rifles and shotguns for the Practical/Tactical market. For real gun fighters and serious gamesmen who competed in IpSC and otherthree gun *GAMES.* So I had a local reputation as the go to guy for such stuff. One day, I am down in the basement of the gun shop, working away on some magic wand or other, and the counter clerk comes down to drag me upstairs to talk with a customer, who didn't know what gun he "needed".

OK fine &#8230;
I ask the guy a few questions to figure out his "needs".
All part of the process for picking the right gun for the job at hand.

His first words to me were,
*"What kind of a gun should I buy to shoot my neighbors with?"*

Here was an EX-American who had seen the light, sold everything, and moved to a small isolated Canadian Gulf island to prepare for the Apocalypse. A GENUINE survivalist, who had made a serious commitment, picked his location wisely, and then proceeded to invest his time and money into building a bunker/bomb shelter. And now he needed advice on which guns to shoot his neighbors with?

WHY?

Because he had been bragging to the neighbors about how he had a bomb shelter, and they didn't AND about how he was the ant,they were the grasshoppers, and he was NOT going to share with them. So, much to his surprise, our intrepid survivalist hero was NOT doing so well. Sugar in the gas tank of his heavy equipment &#8230; tires slashed &#8230; people pointing at him and snickering when he went to the grocery store, etc. He was such a pariah, that he probably would not survive long enough on this tight knit little island to need his bomb shelter, before being run off by his irate neighbors. Not exactly a winning strategy.

My advice to him was that what he needed was better relationships with his neighbors, rather than guns. The best part of living on a small island should be the neighbors, and the sense of community, self sufficiency, and mutual support they could provide him &#8230; if [ and ONLY IF ] he was a part of the community. So I sent him away without selling him a gun, and with him vowing to do better at making friends with the neighbors.

Island people are not the only neighbors who can be touchy that way. And bragging about your guns/food/bomb shelter, and how you do NOT intend to share them, is never a good way to make friends and influence people. And believe it or not, in any REAL survival scenario, long term or short term, friends might be much more useful to you than guns. Especially LOTS of friends with enough guns. But hopefully, no "army of one/Rambo/legend in their own minds" wannabees who look for fights rather than try to avoid them. I mean, realistically, how many gun fights can you hope to win before the odds inevitably turn against you? *Co-operation rather than confrontation should be a big part of any realistic survival/retreat/prepper philosophy and strategy.*

SO, while IMHO it is counterproductive to over-emphasize guns, *enough* guns and *enough* ammunition are not to be disregarded either. So I have guns &#8230; just enough guns &#8230; and just enough ammo &#8230; but not too many guns &#8230;. Welllll maybe too many guns and too much ammo. Every time I go to the range to practice, I am painfully reminded of this fact when I make several trips back and forth to the van to load them in and out..
*[;{)*

As an ex-military guy, I almost always prefer ex-military gear. In most cases the govt spent a lot of your money testing to find the very best gear for the job [ before they sent the supply contract out to the lowest bidder ]. As an ex-gunsmith, I like gear that doesn't break easily. As an ex-competitor at practical shooting, I like gear that goes fast &#8230; and doesn't break easily. And as a cheap SOB on a budget, I like gear that goes fast, doesn't break easily, and doesn't cost too much &#8230; gear that provides good value ... the proverbial "best bang for the buck."

Here is my short list, based on years of experience and hundreds of trial and error attempts to find the best blend of the above.

*PISTOL: * First choice, Glock of course. 








Simply the most reliable and durable pistol I know of.









I prefer Glocks in .40 Cal, the models 23, 22, and 35. A .40 cal Glock can be easily converted with an aftermarket barrel and magazine to shoot 9mm ammo, which is a must have for long term SHTF. The 9mm Glocks, while excellent, do not share the easy conversion to other calibers that the .40 models have. These .40 cal model Glocks can also be converted to the ultra fast .357 SIG cartridge again with a simple barrel swap. .357 SIG basically duplicates the ballistics of .357 MAGNUM and for some scenarios a .357 SIG pistol [ or carbine ] might the perfect gun for the task at hand. And here is one option you might like if it is legal in your jurisdiction &#8230; a G35 Glockenspiel ?carbine? with a .357 SIG barrel.
















And of course, there are several various .22 LR rimfire conversion kits for these various Glock pistols. Having one pistol that can be quickly converted to shoot FOUR calibers make sense to me.

Colt Govt Model type.
I used to build custom Govt model type pistols for genuine tactical shooters and also for "practical pistol" competition. During my 12 years as a pro gunsmith and serious IPSC competitor, I saw every single part of a Govt type pistol break or fall off. And I saw an awful lot of Colt type pistols that were simply NOT RELIABLE. That being said, a PROPERLY BUILT Govt model pistol can be almost as reliable and durable as a Glock. And for the very well trained, with lots of practice, the Colt Govt model is the standard which all other pistols are judged by for go fast shooting. So if you want to invest the time , money and practice a PROPERLY BUILT an TUNED Govt model would be my second recommendation for a pistol .

I personally have both &#8230; currently a Glock 23 in .40 with a 9mm conversion barrel, and a Norinco Commander that I did up myself EXACTLY the way I like them [ $ 800 worth of add on parts to a $ 350 pistol ].









The Commander is more accurate, shoots .45 ACP [ bigger holes are always nice ] and the trigger pull is SUPERB. The Glock 23 is my favorite for real world scenarios, providing the best compromise between concealability and accuracy, and the best balance and feel of any Glock I have tried. Both the Glock and the Commander are great guns &#8230;for me.

Keep these facts firmly in perspective when choosing a defensive pistol. It is critical that the pistol you choose feel RIGHT in your hands. The most important function of any defensive pistol should be close range, short time frame, INSTINCTIVE scenarios, so "FEEL" is a critical component to pistol choice. And the "instinctive" part of your response will NOT happen if you don't practice, Practice, PRACTICE, until handling your pistol is truly instinctive. Much better to start practicing with a pistol the feels right from the start.

SO, while practicing, think carefully about what type of practice you are doing. Some people feel that IPSC od IDPA shooting is great practice for the "real thing" I know I started out that way myself. Long before IDPA arrives, I shot every IpSC match, as tactical/practical as I could. I never won much, but I did shoot my way into B class with an ultra shoirt, eminently PRACTICAL little Detonics Combat Master. I even shot the Canadian IpSC championships with that little pistol, from under a mountain parka, using a small of back holster, and ammo with a 200 Power factor. Can't get much more tacticool than that.

If you play games with a pistol, where long ranges and massive round counts are the norm, be well aware that engaging hordes of assailants, or charging into a house single handedly to "clear rooms", is fantasy, not reality. The last IpSC match I shot had one stage where a minimum of 50 rds was required, and the targets were lined up at ranges from 7 to 20 yds. The scenario required running across the range in front of all these target. Shooting FIFTY rounds as you ran parallel to a horde &#8230; now how "practical" or "tactical" is that?? As an ex-infantry officer, I would not choose to engage that scenario, unless I had a squad of automatic riflemen with me. And even then I would not CHOOSE to be there if retreat was an option. To put it simply, the wrong kind of pistol practice, or GAMING, can train you in ways that will get you killed in the real world.

Always keep in mind the true tactical role of a pistol &#8230;as a DEFENSIVE weapon of last resort. As some one wise once said, "A pistol is what you have with you when you are NOT expecting a gun fight". Or to put it another way, " A pistol is what you use to fight your way to a long arm

So that is all for now about Survival gun choices &#8230; and pistols.
I will add more to this later regarding rifles and shotguns.
TTFN
LAZ 1
[;{)


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