# China Has More Subs Than Does the U.S.



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

> China is building some "fairly amazing submarines" and now has more diesel- and nuclear-powered vessels than the United States, a top U.S. Navy admiral told U.S. lawmakers on Wednesday, although he said their quality was inferior.
> 
> Vice Admiral Joseph Mulloy, deputy chief of naval operations for capabilities and resources, told the House Armed Services Committee's seapower subcommittee that China was also expanding the geographic areas of operation for its submarines, and their length of deployment.


China submarines outnumber U.S. fleet: U.S. admiral



> U.S. military officials in recent months have grown increasingly vocal about China's military buildup and launched a major push to ensure that U.S. military technology stays ahead of rapid advances by China and Russia.


Could it be that those who wish to see the U.S. marginalized, if not altogether conquered, are hastening their plans and abilities?


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

I believe most of China's subs are based on 1950's and 60's soviet boats. They are so loud in the water they will die before they know they are targets.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I don't disagree they lack quality, but that could just be a matter of time. Most of America has forgotten billy jeff didn't have any trouble with the ChiComs buying silent propeller technology from US co's in the 90's. Anything for a campaign contribution right....he also let toshiba sell them missile targeting technology so they can hit bases and cities....wouldn't want them to miss and accidentally get DC after all.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and others.........They see a weakness. And in seeing weakness they prepare for oppertunity. Funny how other countries see and percieve it and the guy who is living in the white house has no clue.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

China has already passed us and is the world's largest economy. It is only a matter of time before they surpass us militarily. They have a larger standing army, and will have more powerful forces of all types over time.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

This is what happens when you have amoral and/or non native leaders deciding what is best (for themselves, not us).


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> This is what happens when you have amoral and/or non native leaders deciding what is best (for themselves, not us).


No, it is what you get when people vote for free cell phones.


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## oldgrouch (Jul 11, 2014)

Is there any truth to the story that one of their subs launched a missile of the California coast several years ago? Taunting us I guess.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

China may have quantity but what about quality?


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Quality v Quantity


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Our fast attack boats are by far the best in the world. I wonder if China's are diesel or nuclear. I know the Diesel subs are very quiet because underwater they use batteries. They have to come up to snorkel and recharge though and they are easy picking. Russia's subs (obviously) were terrible.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Yeah, those boats are no match for our navy. 

Wait a minute. Wasn't it a Chinese boat that popped up in the middle of a carrier group a handful of years ago?

We know Clinton gave them nuclear weapons secrets as well as delivery systems technology; I wonder what else they have been given.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

We have the worlds greatest Navy until China hacks into the computers systems.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

True enough. They can't match our technoligy and quality but they sure as hell are trying. They see complacency in our leadership. They see the door opening.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

My dad was a submariner, he used to say the most dangerous part of being on one of the diesel boats was surfacing to recharge the batteries.
I was stationed with a former nukie-submariner while assigned to Tinker AFB, OK, who said they feared the diesel boats for one reason, they're small.
You can hide a diesel in places today's nukie boats cannot go.

While supporting oceanographic survey in Indonesia, (in the late 80s), we discovered a few places a smaller shell submarine could actually hide under coral reefs.

I feel the same way about old boats as I do the No. Koreans old bullets. They still kill.

Imagine my disappointment when my Commander-In-Chief, in the 90s, gave the ChiComs missile tech, Long Beach Naval Station, and a promise to cutback. Yeah, I'm certain they know where to hide those old boats.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Denton said:


> China submarines outnumber U.S. fleet: U.S. admiral
> 
> Could it be that those who wish to see the U.S. marginalized, if not altogether conquered, are hastening their plans and abilities?


OR could it be that China recognizes the threat that the US submarine fleet poses to them and is doing what every nation that has the resources should do, protecting it's shore by countering our advantages?

One thing to remember, the military must justify the astronomical cost of their budget to congress. No Admiral is EVER going to go before congress and say "Yeah, well, no worries, we kick their asses in every way so we can just cut forces back to X level".

One other way to look at this: The US spent $618.7 billion on it's entire military last year, 3.8 percent of our GDP. China spent $171.4 billion, or 2 percent of their GDP. SO... if they are kicking our asses, heads need to roll and people need to be fired, because outspending them 3-1 SHOULD do the trick.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> OR could it be that China recognizes the threat that the US submarine fleet poses to them and is doing what every nation that has the resources should do, protecting it's shore by countering our advantages?


Yep. Sounds reasonable.



> One thing to remember, the military must justify the astronomical cost of their budget to congress. No Admiral is EVER going to go before congress and say "Yeah, well, no worries, we kick their asses in every way so we can just cut forces back to X level".


I used to think so too until the current POTUS has restacked the Joint Chiefs and Secretarys... now... We might see this by 2017.



> One other way to look at this: The US spent $618.7 billion on it's entire military last year, 3.8 percent of our GDP. China spent $171.4 billion, or 2 percent of their GDP. SO... if they are kicking our asses, heads need to roll and people need to be fired, because outspending them 3-1 SHOULD do the trick.


The govt no longer fires people for lying or failing. 
The real irony is thinking they are spending the $$ we owe them so they can build their military against us. Ahhh politics.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Those of you who actually believe that China's military is 'lost in the fifty's need to do some investigating. They have spent the last five years updating their military. They have nuclear subs and aircraft carriers, stealth fighters and bombers and a network of satellites that give them GPS location and aiming technology. They are on a par with the USA even to the point of UAVs.


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