# Citizen pulls over cop and issues warning



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Thoughts?


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Yeah I have seen this before. I don't know the law in Washington state, but in my jurisdiction we do drive some unmarked cars for traffic enforcement. The officer must be a rookie to be intimidated by the guy who thinks he can pull over a cop. I can tell you if some bozo pulled me over demanding to see my drivers license, registration and proof of insurance. I would be giving him my full name, badge number, work address written in a big piece of paper. Included in the paperwork is my statement of probable cause and the charges for impersonating an officer. That guy will be going to jail and his car towed away.

I suspect this video is bogus, or the cop just don't know how things work.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> Yeah I have seen this before. I don't know the law in Washington state, but in my jurisdiction we do drive some unmarked cars for traffic enforcement. The officer must be a rookie to be intimidated by the guy who thinks he can pull over a cop. I can tell you if some bozo pulled me over demanding to see my drivers license, registration and proof of insurance. I would be giving him my full name, badge number, work address written in a big piece of paper. Included in the paperwork is my statement of probable cause and the charges for impersonating an officer. That guy will be going to jail and his car towed away.
> 
> I suspect this video is bogus, or the cop just don't know how things work.


Excuse me, but are you suggesting that a citizen is impersonating a cop by making contact with a cop who he believes is violating a law, statute, code or regulation?


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> Thoughts?


Busted for sure but.... Cops are above the law we know that right?


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> Excuse me, but are you suggesting that a citizen is impersonating a cop by making contact with a cop who he believes is violating a law, statute, code or regulation?


No, making contact is great. Citing the cop of his violations is great too, specially if the citizen follows through and makes the complaint via proper channels. But for the citizen to demand license, registration and proof of insurance.... Well that's when the citizen crossed the line. The citizen has no authority to demand for it, only cops could do that or other authorized representative of the state, meaning law enforcement. What he did was OK in the beginning, but when he asked for DL, Regs, and POI I am authorized to arrest him and charge him with impersonating a police officer.

Besides, if the officer surrendered his DL, Regs, and POI, what is the citizen going to do with it. There is no way for him to check its validity. Also, notice the way he demanded for it, he sounded like a traffic cop. That dude was playing police trying to intimidate police. He was very lucky...


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

6811 said:


> No, making contact is great. Citing the cop of his violations is great too, specially if the citizen follows through and makes the complaint via proper channels. But for the citizen to demand license, registration and proof of insurance.... Well that's when the citizen crossed the line. * The citizen has no authority to demand for it*, only cops could do that or other authorized representative of the state, meaning law enforcement. What he did was OK in the beginning, but when he asked for DL, Regs, and POI I am authorized to arrest him and charge him with impersonating a police officer.


Bunk! In Mi. we have a rash of impersonators the uniform doesn't mean squat. If you pull me over in a unmarked car you can bet your going to show me Police ID or I will let you follow me to the nearest precinct while on the phone with 911.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

6811 said:


> No, making contact is great. Citing the cop of his violations is great too, specially if the citizen follows through and makes the complaint via proper channels. But for the citizen to demand license, registration and proof of insurance.... Well that's when the citizen crossed the line. The citizen has no authority to demand for it, only cops could do that or other authorized representative of the state, meaning law enforcement. What he did was OK in the beginning, but when he asked for DL, Regs, and POI I am authorized to arrest him and charge him with impersonating a police officer.


You may be, . . . but I have a sneaking hunch when your department pays out several thousand dollars for legal wranglings, . . . fines, . . . and awards to the citizens, . . . you might find working the graveyard alone in the hood on foot may not be what you anticipated.

Any prosecutor worth the salt on his BLT would take your ticket, . . . toss it, . . . haul you to his office, . . . chew you good about being cooperative, . . . and remind you that you "serve at the discretion", . . . and that discretion can be removed.

Attitudes like yours are the attitudes that embolden people to hate cops.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

hawgrider said:


> Bunk! In Mi. we have a rash of impersonators the uniform doesn't mean squat. If you pull me over in a unmarked car you can bet your going to show me Police ID or I will let you follow me to the nearest precinct while on the phone with 911.


Like I said everything the guy did was good, except we he demanded for DL, regs and POI. As far as not pulling over for unmarked cars, that's good too, you just either have to call it in via 911 before stopping, or just keep driving to the nearest station.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> No, making contact is great. Citing the cop of his violations is great too, specially if the citizen follows through and makes the complaint via proper channels. But for the citizen to demand license, registration and proof of insurance.... Well that's when the citizen crossed the line. The citizen has no authority to demand for it, only cops could do that or other authorized representative of the state, meaning law enforcement. What he did was OK in the beginning, but when he asked for DL, Regs, and POI I am authorized to arrest him and charge him with impersonating a police officer.
> 
> Besides, if the officer surrendered his DL, Regs, and POI, what is the citizen going to do with it. There is no way for him to check its validity. Also, notice the way he demanded for it, he sounded like a traffic cop. That dude was playing police trying to intimidate police. He was very lucky...


What Hawg said.

So, the cop was a cop. The cop knows the dude was not a cop. The dude knows the cop knows he was not a cop. The dude was a citizen, he knows he was a citizen, and he knows the cop knows he was a citizen who knows he was a citizen.

Follow me? The point is there was no intent of anything but being a citizen who is a tad tired of law enforcement giving the appearance of not holding themselves to the proper standard.

Intimidation. That is only allowed to go one way, I suppose.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

dwight55 said:


> You may be, . . . but I have a sneaking hunch when your department pays out several thousand dollars for legal wranglings, . . . fines, . . . and awards to the citizens, . . . you might find working the graveyard alone in the hood on foot may not be what you anticipated.
> 
> Any prosecutor worth the salt on his BLT would take your ticket, . . . toss it, . . . haul you to his office, . . . chew you good about being cooperative, . . . and remind you that you "serve at the discretion", . . . and that discretion can be removed.
> 
> ...


Actually, I was on the midnight shift my entire career in patrol, in the hood. That's my norm. Also, I have no problems with people making complaints about police. In fact, I encourage it. But if you impersonate a police officer, I guarantee you I will lock you up in a heart beat. Regardless if people are going to hate me for it. Like I said, I got no problem with the guy citing the cop with laws. But when he demanded for other things he isn't authorized, he crossed the line. And DA's would not show mercy for impersonators. I guarantee you if I arrested a guy like that, I will be just fine.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Is there a code, regulation or statute that states a citizen is not allowed to ask an officer for such documents?


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> What Hawg said.
> 
> So, the cop was a cop. The cop knows the dude was not a cop. The dude knows the cop knows he was not a cop. The dude was a citizen, he knows he was a citizen, and he knows the cop knows he was a citizen who knows he was a citizen.
> 
> ...


I understand the citizens frustration. But why did he demand for the cops license,registration and proof of insurance? What is he going to do with it and how is he going to verify said documents?


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> Is there a code, regulation or statute that states a citizen is not allowed to ask an officer for such documents?


You can ask for his badge number, police ID, and his police commission card. But his DL, regs and POI, no... He is not authorized to do that and doing so he is impersonating a police officer.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> I understand the citizens frustration. But why did he demand for the cops license,registration and proof of insurance? What is he going to do with it and how is he going to verify said documents?


Cross verification of the documents and his identity. Why not? The citizen is pursuing his own investigation of a government official and an agency not abiding by a statute, code or regulation. As a matter of fact, the very same agency that enforces those very things (and occasionally, constitutional laws when they have the time) on us.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> You can ask for his badge number, police ID, and his police commission card. But his DL, regs and POI, no... He is not authorized to do that and doing so he is impersonating a police officer.


Again, is there a statute, code or regulation that declares such documents are not to be requested by a citizen, and if he does request those document, he is impersonating an officer?

Notice, I am not asking for an opinion but a statute, code or regulation.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Luckily for the motorist whom he pulled over was not some hopped up gangbanger with a gun.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> Again, is there a statute, code or regulation that declares such documents are not to be requested by a citizen, and if he does request those document, he is impersonating an officer?
> 
> Notice, I am not asking for an opinion but a statute, code or regulation.


I don't know the statute by heart, I don't deal with traffic. But I know it falls on the law against impersonating police.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> Cross verification of the documents and his identity. Why not? The citizen is pursuing his own investigation of a government official and an agency not abiding by a statute, code or regulation. As a matter of fact, the very same agency that enforces those very things (and occasionally, constitutional laws when they have the time) on us.


Cross verification and other proofs the citizens need can be accommodated by internal affairs. and that is not done in the streets. The guy could have wrote the tag number of the car, he got the guy pulled over and he got his name and I believe his police ID right? That's all he needs and that is within his rights to ask the cop. He should take all that info to internal affairs, or attorney general's office for complaints. I also suggest sending through DOJ.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> I don't know the statute by heart, I don't deal with traffic. But I know it falls on the law against impersonating police.


So, there is some statute that declares a citizen can't request those documents from a cop. A cop who knows the citizen is a citizen and knows the citizen knows he is not a cop but is a citizen.

I am not a traffic cop, either. I suppose that means I should know all codes by heart, right, though legally speaking, I am not to be held to the same level of knowledge?

You are not a traffic cop, but you have stated you'd arrest him for impersonating, though you do not know the statute by heart?

Considering the dude, while not conducting himself the way I would, was not attempting to impersonate a police officer but was clearly conducting himself as a citizen. You are suggesting you'd manipulate a code, statute or regulation in order to pursue retaliation against a citizen who observes law enforcement disregarding codes, statutes and regulations?

Sigh.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> Cross verification and other proofs the citizens need can be accommodated by internal affairs. and that is not done in the streets. The guy could have wrote the tag number of the car, he got the guy pulled over and he got his name and I believe his police ID right? That's all he needs and that is within his rights to ask the cop. He should take all that info to internal affairs, or attorney general's office for complaints. I also suggest sending through DOJ.


Coulda, woulda, shoulda. I am aware of all that. Again, though, that he did not do it that way doesn't mean he was attempting to impersonate a cop, and it is clear he wasn't attempting to be anything but a citizen.

So, now, you are asserting citizens are supposed to know how internal affairs operates, and the citizen is supposed to know to go to IA?

Now, here is a question; was the cop using a city vehicle assigned to the PD to be used as a cop car? Was the op assigned a vehicle that violates existing codes, statutes or regulations of that jurisdiction, and is it to be assumed that the PD would be keenly interested in policing itself?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Denton, most officers will conduct an arrest without full knowledge of the law in question. It isn't their place to determine guilt, or even ascertain as to whether a real law has been broken. That's why there is oversight via the DA who actually has to file charges.
Many officers don't push lines they don't know, but some do. Some choose to arrest simply to give the person a bad time. They'll let the DA handle the details, and if no charges are filed, no penalty on the arresting officer. He'll be right back out there afterwards.
Until an "unlawful arrest" charge can stick, they don't normally change this line of thinking.

Again, only *some* officers follow this pattern of action.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

6811 said:


> You can ask for his badge number, police ID, and his police commission card. But his DL, regs and POI, no... He is not authorized to do that and doing so he is impersonating a police officer.


I don't think asking for those documents qualifies as impersonating an officer.

It seems to me he is using the exact same tactics LEOs use on citizens (citing laws, codes, regs, etc) to make his point. That they are in violation of the law for making traffic stops in an unmarked car. I don't think he was trying to intimidate the officer. He is letting him know that police have to follow the law same as everyone else.


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## duncan1371 (Apr 27, 2015)

I am allowed to ask for anything I want to ask for. You are inclined not to give it to me but that does not mean I am impersonating anything. Just because you went to a class for a few weeks doesn't mean you are more or less of a citizen than I. You are just trusted to uphold the standards set. If you are not then you should be held accountable. There once was I time when you could talk to the PEACE officers and now it is always behind closed doors. I'll take you to jail for asking questions. Crazy world we live in


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Just checked the Texas statutes, and the only charge directly related to pretending to be a police officers is found in Penal Code Chapter 37, Section 37.12: "FALSE IDENTIFICATION AS PEACE OFFICER"
(a) A person commits an offense if:
(1) the person makes, provides to another person, or possesses a card, document, badge, insignia, shoulder emblem, or other item bearing an insignia of a law enforcement agency that identifies a person as a peace officer or a reserve law enforcement officer; and
(2) the person who makes, provides, or possesses the item bearing the insignia knows that the person so identified by the item is not commissioned as a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer as indicated on the item.

Nothing in that statute says anything about asking for documentation from a peace officer.
However, there is another statute that *could* apply, depending on who you tick off.
Sec 37.11: IMPERSONATING PUBLIC SERVANT. (a) A person commits an offense if he:
(1) impersonates a public servant with intent to induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely on his pretended official acts; or
(2) knowingly purports to exercise any function of a public servant or of a public office, including that of a judge and court, and the position or office through which he purports to exercise a function of a public servant or public office has no lawful existence under the constitution or laws of this state or of the United States.

Technically, peace officers are public servants, and if the DA could make the case that asking for documents somehow "induced" an officer to believe the person was some kind of official authority, you *might* have a bad time.
Still, unless the person tried to identify themselves as ANYTHING other than a normal citizen, it's unlikely anything would actually stick.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

In all fairness, I should let y'all know that 6811 is driving to work and can't respond. I, too, am about to pull chocks. 

I have no doubt he will respond as soon as he can beat up a geek and steal, er, commandeer, his laptop at the nearest donut shop. :21:


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> So, there is some statute that declares a citizen can't request those documents from a cop. A cop who knows the citizen is a citizen and knows the citizen knows he is not a cop but is a citizen.
> 
> I am not a traffic cop, either. I suppose that means I should know all codes by heart, right, though legally speaking, I am not to be held to the same level of knowledge?
> 
> ...


No manipulation... if that is done, then it is clearly out of retaliation which is unethical. As for me not knowing the statute by heart, I meant that I dont know the code numbers because I do not have it memorized, I have to look it up. what I know is the elements of the crime of impersonating a police officer. once I arrest him I could look the number codes to put on the charges.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

6811 said:


> No manipulation... if that is done, then it is clearly out of retaliation which is unethical. As for me not knowing the statute by heart, I meant that I dont know the code numbers because I do not have it memorized, I have to look it up. what I know is the elements of the crime of impersonating a police officer. once I arrest him I could look the number codes to put on the charges.


Based on the verbatim statute I quoted above, would you arrest this citizen for the actions in the video?


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> I don't think asking for those documents qualifies as impersonating an officer.
> 
> It seems to me he is using the exact same tactics LEOs use on citizens (citing laws, codes, regs, etc) to make his point. That they are in violation of the law for making traffic stops in an unmarked car. I don't think he was trying to intimidate the officer. He is letting him know that police have to follow the law same as everyone else.


but it is not tactics, LEOs are authorized to demand DL, Regs and POI and the guy was not. as for the guy letting the officer know that he and his agency is in violation, that is cool and there is nothing wrong with that. but to say I need to see your DL, Regs and POI because you drive and unmarked car and use it for traffic enforcement, that is wrong and he is not authorized to do that.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

duncan1371 said:


> I am allowed to ask for anything I want to ask for. You are inclined not to give it to me but that does not mean I am impersonating anything. Just because you went to a class for a few weeks doesn't mean you are more or less of a citizen than I. You are just trusted to uphold the standards set. If you are not then you should be held accountable. There once was I time when you could talk to the PEACE officers and now it is always behind closed doors. I'll take you to jail for asking questions. Crazy world we live in


asking questions and demanding to produce documents you are not authorized demand is very different. in any ways, if an arrest is made, the courts will decide if the officer is right or wrong.


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## duncan1371 (Apr 27, 2015)

That is correct now since we are discussing the video. Did he attempt to arrest him was he in uniform impersonating anyone. Nope. He asked a question. I can walk up and ask for a dollar if I'm short one or a quarter. Does that make me a vagrant or a beggar no. Seems that things always get spun way out when people want to be big and bad. He wasn't impersonating a thing simply trying to make the point that some officers seem to think they are above the law. Us lowly citizens aren't privy to the IA and all that good stuff.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> In all fairness, I should let y'all know that 6811 is driving to work and can't respond. I, too, am about to pull chocks.
> 
> I have no doubt he will respond as soon as he can beat up a geek and steal, er, commandeer, his laptop at the nearest donut shop. :21:


donut shop..... I dont even drink coffee:dispirited:


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

duncan1371 said:


> That is correct now since we are discussing the video. Did he attempt to arrest him was he in uniform impersonating anyone. Nope. He asked a question. I can walk up and ask for a dollar if I'm short one or a quarter. Does that make me a vagrant or a beggar no. Seems that things always get spun way out when people want to be big and bad. He wasn't impersonating a thing simply trying to make the point that some officers seem to think they are above the law. Us lowly citizens aren't privy to the IA and all that good stuff.


IA is for the citizens sir. that is what they are for, now you may not trust cops like most people do, but that is what IA is for. And I assure you if this incident occurred in my jurisdiction and the officer decided to arrest, he will be within the law. I understand Kauboy pulled up statutes in Texas, and based on the statutes, he is correct.


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## duncan1371 (Apr 27, 2015)

The statutes that he pulled up were about as grey as they get. You could cite someone for impersonating a janitor at the courthouse. And I have no problem trusting peace officers. I just don't understand why they need to hide. What do you need an undercover unmarked car for traffic. There is no reason for it. If I have to call 911 which was advice given. While leading an unknown car to the precinct. What was the point when had it been marked I would have stopped. It serves no purpose.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> Based on the verbatim statute I quoted above, would you arrest this citizen for the actions in the video?


if this was in TX, probably not without asking the duty DA. I will make sure that my probable cause is good based on the statutes.


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## duncan1371 (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm not bashing, hating, or anything else I just seems like another overreach. And the attitude of well a citizen won't question me or ask me for documents otherwise I will haul him off is a huge over reaction. And the reason most have a dislike or distrust in the first place


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

duncan1371 said:


> The statutes that he pulled up were about as grey as they get. You could cite someone for impersonating a janitor at the courthouse. And I have no problem trusting peace officers. I just don't understand why they need to hide. What do you need an undercover unmarked car for traffic. There is no reason for it. If I have to call 911 which was advice given. While leading an unknown car to the precinct. What was the point when had it been marked I would have stopped. It serves no purpose.


I agree, I think it is unsafe for the citizens and police to be using unmarked vehicle for traffic work. can you imagine being pulled over by an unmarked car, and you dont stop because you think it could be a roberry so you speed up trying to get to a police station. the cop speeds up and passes you and cuts you off. can you ram his car to get away? that can be argued as something a scared person would do. if you believe that who ever is driving this unmarked car with lights but no markings can harm you, hell yeah...


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## duncan1371 (Apr 27, 2015)

Well we can agree on something then. It is just getting a little out of control on both sides.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> but it is not tactics, LEOs are authorized to demand DL, Regs and POI and the guy was not. as for the guy letting the officer know that he and his agency is in violation, that is cool and there is nothing wrong with that. but to say I need to see your DL, Regs and POI because you drive and unmarked car and use it for traffic enforcement, that is wrong and he is not authorized to do that.


That you are authorized to ask for that does not mean we can't do the same to you.
Again, you are bouncing all around my question without answering it.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> asking questions and demanding to produce documents you are not authorized demand is very different. in any ways, if an arrest is made, the courts will decide if the officer is right or wrong.


Exactly. The little, annoying gnat is to be swatted. It doesn't matter the burden it places on him. It's just that easy to disrupt the life of an uppity citizen who doesn't know his place in the police state.

Yazzer; I bes be steppin' correct, Mazzer!


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

dwight55 said:


> You may be, . . . but I have a sneaking hunch when your department pays out several thousand dollars for legal wranglings, . . . fines, . . . and awards to the citizens, . . . you might find working the graveyard alone in the hood on foot may not be what you anticipated.
> 
> Any prosecutor worth the salt on his BLT would take your ticket, . . . toss it, . . . haul you to his office, . . . chew you good about being cooperative, . . . and remind you that you "serve at the discretion", . . . and that discretion can be removed.
> 
> ...


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

slewfoot said:


> Show me the law that says a citizen has the right to pull over an officer and ask for his DL. In., and registration.
> If it was me I would show him at the booking office right after I arrested him for impersonating an office,


He never made a claim that he was an officer, nor was he wearing any articles that could lead folks to believe he was an officer. So that argument doesn't work.

As far as I know there is no law against asking to see an officers documents. He did not force the LEO in the video to show them. The officer volunteered to show him his DL.

The main point of the video can be summed up with an old phrase well known to criminal justice:

Ignorance of the law is no excuse...

It applies to all. Even LEOs.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> He never made a claim that he was an officer, nor was he wearing any articles that could lead folks to believe he was an officer. So that argument doesn't work.
> 
> As far as I know there is no law against asking to see an officers documents. He did not force the LEO in the video to show them. The officer volunteered to show him his DL.
> 
> ...


yes ignorance is no excuse... as for the LEO volunteering his DL, thats on him. He can do that if he want to. I guess we will see when something like this happens in my jurisdiction. in this case, the argument will be, did the guy ask or demand for the officers papers.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

slewfoot said:


> dwight55 said:
> 
> 
> > You may be, . . . but I have a sneaking hunch when your department pays out several thousand dollars for legal wranglings, . . . fines, . . . and awards to the citizens, . . . you might find working the graveyard alone in the hood on foot may not be what you anticipated.
> ...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> yes ignorance is no excuse... as for the LEO volunteering his DL, thats on him. He can do that if he want to. I guess we will see when something like this happens in my jurisdiction. in this case, the argument will be, did the guy ask or demand for the officers papers.


On the other hand, intimidation, threat, coersion and duress is implied when a cop "asks" for a citizen's ID. Not so much implied with you, huh?

What do you call it when a community servant can't handle being questioned by a citizen? A citizen who is clearly not in thevwrong, is not a criminal, and is confronting what appears to be an officer in the wrong?

Yeah, let's pretend he is impersonating a cop. Clearly, this citizen is why people are losing faith. Don't question so we can all close our eyes and keep the faith in the governments that control us.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811, brother; you know I am pulling your chain. Be careful at work.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Denton said:


> It can only be because of those uppity citizens. :excitement:


I see what you've been trying to imply for several posts now. "US versus THEM" is only going to further divide the argument IMO...


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

On a lighter note, Denton really sucks at typing on his tablet!


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I have a lot of respect for the boys in blue. I understand that they have to deal with the lowest of the low in our failing society. They never know what type of person they're dealing with in a traffic stop or when responding to a call. It could be a sociopath or it could be an upstanding citizen who screwed up. I get that. It's a tough job that someone has to do. I'll bring out the statement once more: let's not make it "US versus THEM" LEOs that trample on rights should not be defended by other LEOs simply because they are LEOs.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> 6811, brother; you know I am pulling your chain. Be careful at work.


Just got back from the hospital for a case... I know fellas, we are just discussing a topic that is actually going on out there. you have cops that dont like to be called out and what is worst is the cops that have broken the law and gets pissy when a citizen makes a complaint. and then you have citizens who makes complaints but going on the wrong route on their complaints. its a lot going on out there. But what the heck is this hanging out in a donut shop bs... you may catch me in a sushi bar, but never in a donut shop:stick:


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> I have a lot of respect for the boys in blue. I understand that they have to deal with the lowest of the low in our failing society. They never know what type of person they're dealing with in a traffic stop or when responding to a call. It could be a sociopath or it could be an upstanding citizen who screwed up. I get that. It's a tough job that someone has to do. I'll bring out the statement once more: let's not make it "US versus THEM" LEOs that trample on rights should not be defended by other LEOs simply because they are LEOs.


The way I look at it, LEO or not, if you are wrong, you're wrong. no covering up for that. You may be LEO now, but you wont be LEO forever. Also, not everyone in your immediate family are LEO, they are civilians that if In contact with other LEO's, you want LEO's to treat them fairly and with respect. Basically dont do things to other people you dont want done to you...


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

6811 said:


> No, making contact is great. Citing the cop of his violations is great too, specially if the citizen follows through and makes the complaint via proper channels. But for the citizen to demand license, registration and proof of insurance.... Well that's when the citizen crossed the line. The citizen has no authority to demand for it, only cops could do that or other authorized representative of the state, meaning law enforcement. What he did was OK in the beginning, but when he asked for DL, Regs, and POI I am authorized to arrest him and charge him with impersonating a police officer.
> 
> Besides, if the officer surrendered his DL, Regs, and POI, what is the citizen going to do with it. There is no way for him to check its validity. Also, notice the way he demanded for it, he sounded like a traffic cop. That dude was playing police trying to intimidate police. He was very lucky...


I am pretty certain that if you pull over a teenager with an attitude that wants to see your ID, you can not charge him with impersonating a police officer.

If you listen carefully, this guy requested ID he didn't demand it, and he also provided a reason why he was requesting it.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

6811 said:


> Just got back from the hospital for a case... I know fellas, we are just discussing a topic that is actually going on out there. you have cops that dont like to be called out and what is worst is the cops that have broken the law and gets pissy when a citizen makes a complaint. and then you have citizens who makes complaints but going on the wrong route on their complaints. its a lot going on out there. But what the heck is this hanging out in a donut shop bs... you may catch me in a sushi bar, but never in a donut shop:stick:


Sushi bar?
Man, am I glad I made career changes. Seems that profession has taken a turn for the worse.
I still can't pass a donut shop.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> On a lighter note, Denton really sucks at typing on his tablet!


They day I retire you'll see me playing tablet frisbee.


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## OctopusPrime (Dec 2, 2014)

If it is real, the cop is a good cop in my book because he showed restraint. The officers responses and attention were what I would want from my deputy. He was watching for any possible physical ambush and yet he was reaching an understanding with the guy. 

I think the citizen was pushing his luck in some ways such as reaching inside the vehicle, and the way he was phrasing his questions and stating law to a officer was disrespectful. He showed a lack of tact imo. 

I'm sort of on 6811 side here except arresting the citizen is too much. I would have explained to the citizen that he was dangerously close to impersonating a officer.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> I am pretty certain that if you pull over a teenager with an attitude that wants to see your ID, you can not charge him with impersonating a police officer.
> 
> If you listen carefully, this guy requested ID he didn't demand it, and he also provided a reason why he was requesting it.


yes you are correct... you cannot charge a citizen for impersonating a police officer if he ask to see your police ID or police credentials. just dont ask for the cops drivers license, registration and proof of insurance. thats the part we are discussing if that is crossing the line of impersonating a cop or not. you can ask for badge number and police ID, Police certification cards all day long and no problem with that...


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> Sushi bar?
> Man, am I glad I made career changes. Seems that profession has taken a turn for the worse.
> I still can't pass a donut shop.


I grew up in Asia where fish and rice are cheap. Donuts on the other hand are food of the rich people, they are expensive. same as our homes, we have wood floors because they are cheap. rich folks have carpets on their floors...


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Asking for proof of insurance sounds strange, wouldn't most police forces self insure?


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> Asking for proof of insurance sounds strange, wouldn't most police forces self insure?


I believe they are self insured...


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

6811 said:


> yes you are correct... you cannot charge a citizen for impersonating a police officer if he ask to see your police ID or police credentials. just dont ask for the cops drivers license, registration and proof of insurance. thats the part we are discussing if that is crossing the line of impersonating a cop or not. you can ask for badge number and police ID, Police certification cards all day long and no problem with that...


catch 22, I am not a police officer, I have no idea what a police ID looks like, but as a citizen I know what a drivers license looks like.


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## duncan1371 (Apr 27, 2015)

OctopusPrime said:


> If it is real, the cop is a good cop in my book because he showed restraint. The officers responses and attention were what I would want from my deputy. He was watching for any possible physical ambush and yet he was reaching an understanding with the guy.
> 
> I think the citizen was pushing his luck in some ways such as reaching inside the vehicle, and the way he was phrasing his questions and stating law to a officer was disrespectful. He showed a lack of tact imo.
> 
> I'm sort of on 6811 side here except arresting the citizen is too much. I would have explained to the citizen that he was dangerously close to impersonating a officer.


Apparently he was informing the officer of a law that he was violating. I don't know if the is a law I'm not from there. But the statement I want to make is that you are trying to put them above us. There is no line we are all citizens subject to the same laws. If I'm ignorant of a law guess who informs me. The officers. Should be a two way street


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## turbo6 (Jun 27, 2014)

I certainly see the concern with unmarked cars and safety as people have pretended to be cops and taken advantage of others.

However, there's plenty of avenues to use to change this. He found a young deputy who listened to his pompous ranting.

Certainly other police may have not been so patient with him....


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> catch 22, I am not a police officer, I have no idea what a police ID looks like, but as a citizen I know what a drivers license looks like.


That is so true, no way to know what police ID looks like. You may know what your state drivers license look like, obviously because you have one yourself, but how are you going to check if it's valid and its information to be true?


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## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

So if 2 citizens have a wreck and citizen 1 asks citizen 2 for his insurance info, is he impersonating an officer then?


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

midtnfamilyguy said:


> So if 2 citizens have a wreck and citizen 1 asks citizen 2 for his insurance info, is he impersonating an officer then?


No.... Also citizen 2 should be asking citizen 1's for his insurance info as well. You guys may do it on your own, or call for police and the cop can verify for each other that both of their DL, veh.regs and insurance are valid.

But you can't stop a cop and demand for his DL, veh regs and proof if insurance. Those documents contain personal info. If you have a problem with a cops actions or you believe he has violated laws, you can get the tag number of his police vehicle, the time and date, location where you saw him. If you are able to talk to him, get his badge number, police ID, and police commission ID info. You take all the info to his dept. IA, you can take it to your state AG, and all the way to DOJ. But you have no business demanding for his DL, Veh regs and POI.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

6811 said:


> That is so true, no way to know what police ID looks like. You may know what your state drivers license look like, obviously because you have one yourself, but how are you going to check if it's valid and its information to be true?


Any citizen with a brain can make sure the ID. matches the uniform and the jurisdiction of the alleged cop. In michigan most unmarked cars will be marked on the passenger side of the car. Otherwise they would have to call a black and white to write the ticket.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

hawgrider said:


> Any citizen with a brain can make sure the ID. matches the uniform and the jurisdiction of the alleged cop. In michigan most unmarked cars will be marked on the passenger side of the car. Otherwise they would have to call a black and white to write the ticket.


Well, if you happen to be an impersonator it would be wise to match up the uniform to your fake credentials or else, your career will be cut short real quick. In 24 years I have seen one impersonator, the sumbitch even got himself a ford crown Vic with police interceptor package. According to the guy the uniform was acquired from personal vehicles and laundromats. Also, he was caught by IA from a complaint generated by a citizen taking down his tag number.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

6811 said:


> Well, if you happen to be an impersonator it would be wise to match up the uniform to your fake credentials or else, your career will be cut short real quick. In 24 years I have seen one impersonator, the sumbitch even got himself a ford crown Vic with police interceptor package. According to the guy the uniform was acquired from personal vehicles and laundromats. Also, he was caught by IA from a complaint generated by a citizen taking down his tag number.


In my state a uniformed officer driving an unmarked car may pull over and issue a ticket. If the officer is in plain clothes he is not allowed to issue citations. He has to call for a uniformed police to issue citations and have the plainclothesman listed as witness.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

6811 said:


> Well, if you happen to be an impersonator it would be wise to match up the uniform to your fake credentials or else, your career will be cut short real quick. In 24 years I have seen one impersonator, the sumbitch even got himself a ford crown Vic with police interceptor package. According to the guy the uniform was acquired from personal vehicles and laundromats. Also, he was caught by IA from a complaint generated by a citizen taking down his tag number.


Old state police cars are sold at auction every year to regular citzens. Most are still in original paint only the stickers removed.


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