# Better Learn How to Farm!



## Grim Reality (Mar 19, 2014)

I tend to look at survival as a long term disaster. My plans revolve around the premise that the grid (once
it has crashed) isn't going to come back any time soon. Therefore, with that bleak thought in mind...

Eventually all stored foods, no matter what they are, will be either consumed or will deteriorate and need to
be tossed into the trash. Sugar is one with a very LONG shelf life, likewise honey, salt, and perhaps a few
more. But if you are fortunate, and depending upon your particular circumstances, you (and I) will find that
you cannot, no matter how hard you try, store enough supplies to last forever. Our larders will (hopefully)
tide us over until we can resupply. But where are these "supplies" going to come from if there is no gasoline
being produced to run machinery and transportation (such as railroads , planes, trucks, tractors, etcetera).

We need to all become farmers/gardeners at some point. The fly in the ointment is that the amount of crops
needed to recreate a basic society is far larger than most think. You have enough farmland to feed your horse,
or perhaps a cow? This is after feeding your family naturally. You have food available for trading? Wheat can
be stored, but eventually, to resupply us, it and other crops, must be GROWN. The quantities involved are large
and will require acres of land...which is one reason why a horse (or even a mule) will be of great assistance in 
any future agrarian culture. And I only mention wheat because today, right now, it is common. Many, many
other items will also be needed.

Getting fuel will be a major undertaking. I don't see any refinery 100 miles away from me as being any sort
of realistic restart project. Eventually maybe...but not soon enough to keep us from looking for other fuel
supplies.

One of the simplest will be alcohol. Yet even that will require large investments. Can anyone tell me the
amount of sugar beets needed to produce 10 gallons of alcohol from a still? It's a lot! Far more crops will
need to be grown.

Our return to farming is unavoidable if we are to sustain ourselves. If you don't make your own food then
you either get it from someone else...or you don't get it at all. End of story.

I personally believe that (working together as a community) after establishing a continuous supply of water,
food (gardens) and defense the most beneficial project we should apply ourselves to will be the reestablishment
of some sort of electrical power. Along with that it could become possible to recreate some of the luxuries we
have today. I'm not talking about the internet. Lights, tools, cooking, industry and so on come to mind. The
internet may return...but not right away.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Grim


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

My greatest fear, Grim, . . . is the latest generation (s) we have turned loose on the world.

This will sound wrong to many, . . . but I believe that in the last 4 or 5 decades, . . . we have gurgitated fewer and fewer self reliant types who can and will do as you suggested, . . . but rather many, many more of the type who will be content to be roving bands of thieves, rapists, and murderers.

ALL, . . . and I emphasize ALL, . . . urban areas have these latent thugs, . . . today just being the local trash talking thug who lives on handouts, welfare, cash jobs, and whatever he can steal and fence/pawn. Let the 72 hours go by that will empty out ALL local groceries, . . . all fast food places, . . . and 90% of the kitchens in urban America, . . . and you are going to have literally millions of latent thugs who just turned into Attila's grandchildren.

I am not sure civilization is prepared to or capable of surviving these modern day Attila's. 

They will have enough gasoline/diesel to get them out to the suburbs, . . . where they will ply their hun trade upon the yuppie preppers, . . . whilch will re-arm and re-fuel them for their forays out into the countryside. By the time they make my house, . . . they will be armed, nasty, smelly, and hungry. 

I don't paint a rosy picture, . . . because I don't see one, . . . I see some few pockets of life possible, . . . but they will be only out in the more rugged, . . . more unforgiving, . . . more unreachable areas where the thugs will die off on the way.

YMMV

May God bless,
Dwight


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Farming without oil, electricity, pesticides, pumped irrigation, and fertilizer will be much less productive and extremely labor intensive, and with no long distance transport the produce will have to be locally consumed. People living in areas of the country where farming is unproductive will have to relocate or starve. The first few years will see mass famine. This is one of the reasons experts say the die-off rate will approach 90% in a grid failure SHTF.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I have been looking for hand implements to garden with at flea markets, garage sales and estate sales. I have some property. I feel I can produce enough fruit, nuts and vegetables for personal consumption. I would like to add a green house. I think goats would help with dairy and meat. And perhaps ducks or other fowl for eggs and meat. I have a few farmers nearby to swap with.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Grim Reality said:


> I tend to look at survival as a long term disaster. My plans revolve around the premise that the grid (once
> it has crashed) isn't going to come back any time soon. Therefore, with that bleak thought in mind...
> 
> Eventually all stored foods, no matter what they are, will be either consumed or will deteriorate and need to
> ...


as has been mention ad infinitum on here....

sustainability!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

It has been done for thousands of years and it will become the norm again. Though the population was a lot smaller. Guess history will repeat it's self again. Learn, adjust and adapt or die.

I believe Dwight55 hit the nail square on the head. Can we survive the hoards of scum long enough to start to farm? I'm thinking the first year will be out of the question as most will be fighting just to survive. Maybe the second year I hope things will be thinned out enough to try. But can you or me last two years??


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

I have done some reading on this subject , if you just use top of the ground beds it's a lot easier , " that's for people who don't have large places to plant . Farming = large lots of land . you need tractors , trucks , ect. . When SHTF your not going to have that stuff useable very long " unless you start stock up on fuel, oil, antifreeze , grease , spare parts . For a family of five my neighbor has six , 4x10 above ground planters in his back yard . He and his wife freeze , can for prep 2/3's and the other they use in the winter .


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Targetshooter said:


> I have done some reading on this subject , if you just use top of the ground beds it's a lot easier , " that's for people who don't have large places to plant . Farming = large lots of land . you need tractors , trucks , ect. . When SHTF your not going to have that stuff useable very long " unless you start stock up on fuel, oil, antifreeze , grease , spare parts . For a family of five my neighbor has six , 4x10 above ground planters in his back yard . He and his wife freeze , can for prep 2/3's and the other they use in the winter .


first of all instead of reading about it you need to get out there and start doing it. I gardened for years with only hand tools and have always turned over the ground 2 shovels deep to promote good root growth. this is extremely important when planting any type of root crop (also the ones that store best in the winter) and the heavy drinkers like tomatoes. 
you don't have to have huge amounts of land to produce enough food unless you have 30 people living in your home. planting crops that grow in the same space or can be planted several times a year will increase your harvest. Corn takes a lot of room to grow and is really a waste of space in my opinion, unless you plant other crops with it. In the space you plant corn you can also plant peas and beans with squash and pumpkins between the rows. the peas and beans will use the corn to climb on and the squash will cover the ground and keep the soil moist and prevent weeds from growing. Tomatoes use the top of the ground and potatoes use the soil underneath. 
Rabbits are an excellent source of meat since they are low profile. quiet, contained and pretty much odor free if you keep up on it. they will eat very well on just the weeds and garden scraps you can give them. Chicken are ok for eggs but are not realistic for meat production unless you have a lot of them. just a few for eggs and they will pretty much fend for them selves and find their own food, especially if kept with the rabbits. 
with a little land or access to it you can also have goats, pigs, geese, which are higher risk and require more food. but also are higher in fat. we need to have some fat in our diet. 
The problem with most people is that they talk about it but when it comes down to it will never actually do it. you can not expect that if we had an EMP today that you will suddenly be blessed with a usable garden space and farm animals. It isn't going to happen. Gardens take years of good management to get them to the point of being able to produce for a family. the only way you are going to get an animal is to risk your life for it. I would never let an animal go if SHTF unless I was trading it for more food. But people like me have lived for years on what is produced in our own yards. I don't need what you have to barter.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Farming with tractors will still be doable. The making of ehtanol will be way more important then feeding horses, and tractors can run on ethanol if modified, or biodisel or something. The benefit of a tractor is huge. 

And using corn to make ethanol is just totaly moronic, there are way better plants for that. So even if your system of making ethanol sucks, well, there are better ways


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

We need to read and reread what tired nurse just wrote.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

If TSHTF big time a lot will die a lot will survive. Younger people today are more delicate than they used to be. It will cost a lot of people their lives IMO. I'M 60 years old when I was a child I knew nobody who was allergic to anything other than perhaps poison ivy. People/kids now aren't accustomed to germs like we used to be I fear that too will cost many their lives.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> We need to read and reread what tired nurse just wrote.


I just wish people would Denton. but doubt they will


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

These are some fast pics of my food sources. This is all done by me with no help from anyone AFTER I work my 60 hour a week job away from home.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

tirednurse said:


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Impressive & inspiering


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I have my parents old farm. Established orchards, berrys, perennial foods. Half woods half fields. Have all the old hand tools for timber harvesting building and growing. Will be tough without having the tractors and power saws. 

Grandpa had draft horses and plowed, hayed etc. with them. They are gone as are the harnesses and horse drawn equipment. There may come a day when we are back to that.

What will be more of a problem is fighting off the have nots from looting and pillaging. Even if well armed you need a large group to watch over things as you can't be there 24/7


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

tirednurse said:


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You are way ahead of most, including me.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Moonshinedave said:


> You are way ahead of most, including me.


I started with a 10 x 10 ft garden hand dug with a shovel and add to it every year.

I have taught my sister to produce food from her postage stamp yard. she has 8 rabbits and 8 chickens that use a corner of the yard about 10 ft square. she has raised beds half the back yard (kids get the other half) and more raised beds in the front. 
I plant a lot of low maintenance foods and don't fuss with them much. fruit trees, berries of all kinds and things like squash that you dont ever have to mess with after you plant the seed. There is always some type of food growing every day of the year.


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

tirednurse said:


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And now we know why you are tired, and it ain't just from nursing.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

darsk20 said:


> And now we know why you are tired, and it ain't just from nursing.


Yup. T/N is more than simply amazing.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

After the garden laid fallow for the last 5 years, last summer my wife got it up and going again.
It still needs a LOT of work. We have decided that due to her disabilities we need things fairly small, no more row crops.
We built 10 raised beds, each one 4 feet by 8 feet with enough room between to get a wheelchair through. She's not quite at the chair level yet, but the day is coming. 
There is a green house in there, plus I scrounged four 3 X 6 windows that will be modified and hinged to fit 4 of the beds and make cold frames.
Also there is a 24 foot by 40 foot area that we tried corn in, but we are going to switch over to fruit trees, more pumpkins, and more watermellon. 
All of this garden space is heavily fenced against rabbits and electrified to keep the horses out.

The horses are stalled each night, and the stalls provide excellent matter to make beds - the manure, plus the hay they scatter about while munching, plus the clean sand we keep in there as a base layer (some gets scooped up when mucking out the stall).

We also keep chickens, both hens and roosters. We are up to 35 now. We don't use them for meat birds until they are too old to lay.

We have about an acre and a half out back still wooded with planted pines (this whole area used to be a tree farm) and this is the year I'm going to thin out the center and put in a deer feeder and food plots for the woodland creatures. :joyous:

The "raider bands" will be pretty well thinned out by the time they make it out here. If they make it.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> Yup. T/N is more than simply amazing.


Gosh Denten, I'm blushing 
I am just not the kind of person to leave things to chance. Also I fear for what could happen in our uncertain future. If we don't do what we can to protect ourselves nobody will. I have found you can't count on anyone but yourself. No matter who it is. 
I know I will never lack for food or a way to obtain it because of my knowledge. I can grow just about anything and have raised all types of animals. I can butcher and process every one of them too. I hunt, and fish, wish I knew more about trapping but maybe someday. It isn't always about what you have stored under the bed, but what you have stored in your head that counts. You can't just say if TSHTF I am going to grow a garden or raise some chickens. It just doesn't work that way. there is no magic wand you can use to make it happen. It is hard work and lots of it. It is dirty and sweaty and usually involves a lot of poop. No way to get around it. It is all worth it if I can keep these babies safe. There is nothing worse in my mind that to see your babies slowly starve to death and they can't eat bullets.

how could you not do everything in your power to protect your family?


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

tirednurse said:


> Gosh Denten, I'm blushing
> I am just not the kind of person to leave things to chance. Also I fear for what could happen in our uncertain future. If we don't do what we can to protect ourselves nobody will. I have found you can't count on anyone but yourself. No matter who it is.
> I know I will never lack for food or a way to obtain it because of my knowledge. I can grow just about anything and have raised all types of animals. I can butcher and process every one of them too. I hunt, and fish, wish I knew more about trapping but maybe someday. It isn't always about what you have stored under the bed, but what you have stored in your head that counts. You can't just say if TSHTF I am going to grow a garden or raise some chickens. It just doesn't work that way. there is no magic wand you can use to make it happen. It is hard work and lots of it. It is dirty and sweaty and usually involves a lot of poop. No way to get around it. It is all worth it if I can keep these babies safe. There is nothing worse in my mind that to see your babies slowly starve to death and they can't eat bullets.
> 
> ...


Hell Sweetie, with all you have going on. I am surprised you had the time, or energy, to make a family, hats off to ya. Fine looking youngins you got there.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Moonshinedave said:


> Hell Sweetie, with all you have going on. I am surprised you had the time, or energy, to make a family, hats off to ya. Fine looking youngins you got there.


I already raised my kids Dave. There are no men in my life but my sons and my grand sons. These are my treasures. My grandsons who are my little shadows. Since they live on my property they tag along doing what ever I do. they are learning all I can teach them. they plant with me and harvest. the older one just turned 6 and can feed can tell you how to feed every animal on the property and when. he can get the goats in the stands and milk like a pro. If someone shoots me in the head maybe they will still have a chance.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> ................What will be more of a problem is fighting off the have nots from looting and pillaging. Even if well armed you need a large group to watch over things as you can't be there 24/7


I do not plan on putting their heads on pikes along my driveway, . . . but the bodies will pretty much lay where they fell.

I ain't burying scum, . . . especially when they may be just the ticket to encourage the next band to find some place else.

That is, . . . unless of course there are so many of them that they become a health hazard themselves, . . . then we just drag em further down the road and put em in piles.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> I do not plan on putting their heads on pikes along my driveway, . . . but the bodies will pretty much lay where they fell.
> 
> I ain't burying scum, . . . especially when they may be just the ticket to encourage the next band to find some place else.
> 
> ...


You have no choice but to bury them. God makes it clear that bodies not buried makes the land unclean.

Sorry, but the word is the word.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

tirednurse said:


> I already raised my kids Dave. There are no men in my life but my sons and my grand sons. These are my treasures. My grandsons who are my little shadows. Since they live on my property they tag along doing what ever I do. they are learning all I can teach them. they plant with me and harvest. the older one just turned 6 and can feed can tell you how to feed every animal on the property and when. he can get the goats in the stands and milk like a pro. If someone shoots me in the head maybe they will still have a chance.


It is great that they follow you around and learn what you know.
My grandmother was amazing. No matter where she was, she grew food. I didn't have the good sense to learn what I needed to know; I just picked what I was told to pick. Now, I am only good for your unskilled labor in the field.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

These people are amazing and are a good example of what can be done in anyone's back yards.

How One Family Grows 6,000 lbs Veggies On 1/10th Acre In Los Angeles - Tiny House for UsTiny House for Us


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## T-Man 1066 (Jan 3, 2016)

I do rowcrops, and in the event of a supply chain failure (SHTF, fuel becoming scarce), methods for farming will regress about 75 years. Pesticides / herbicides will probably not be there, as well as fuel to run tractors, or even seed stocks. If you live in snow country, and plan to have animals, which you should, you will need winter feed. If you can't buy feed, you will need hay/grains for feed, as snow is pretty weak on nutrients / calories. I wonder if someone retrofit a small 30-50 hp tractor with a steam engine, as long as you have water and wood or coal, you could still farm with limited or no gas/diesel supplies. Someone mentioned about horses to farm, but unless there is a 540 pto sticking out their butt, they aren't worth a darn for running a sickle mower, hay baler, corn picker, auger or feed grinder. Better have a cultivator, as glysophate / dicamba will be a thing of the past. 
Watering animals, stock tank heaters are useless without 110AC, wonder how one of them magnifiers from a big screen projection TV would work to thaw out 80 gallon water tanks each day?

Lots to think about. it has been said before, if you wait until SHTF to prep, you are about 4-8 years late to the party.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We are farmers....and no we don't sell insurance. We come from a long line of framers. We will eat with food left over.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I agree with tirednurse 100% You gotta get out NOW and learn about raising food! There are too many things that can go wrong. Better to learn the hard lessons in good times than wait till your family's life is on the line! Start small and work your way up. Even just raising up a salsa garden in pots on the front porch is a learning experience. Real world experience trumps booklearning everyday and twice on Sundays!


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm trying to locate places on the farm to plant food plots and a garden. I pulled all of my implements out of the weeds and am getting ready to refurbish them. My plow needs two new draw pins, de-rusting and a coat of paint. The disk harrow will be more labor intensive with cleaning, repacking, preloading and greasing all of the bearings. I brought two pieces of the harrow home on a trailer. Farm implements are heavy as S#$^. Once the areas are established it's bush hog time.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> I agree with tirednurse 100% You gotta get out NOW and learn about raising food! There are too many things that can go wrong. Better to learn the hard lessons in good times than wait till your family's life is on the line! Start small and work your way up. Even just raising up a salsa garden in pots on the front porch is a learning experience. Real world experience trumps booklearning everyday and twice on Sundays!


So true. every time something doesn't go quite as planned I think about what would happen if my life depended on what I can produce. in the last 24 hours I had a sow have a litter of pigglets. she had a total of 21, but despite me spending hours down there with her trying to protect the little ones from getting squished I have lost 6 so far. This isn't going to kill me now, but if I was depending on this for my food source and for trade value, a loss like this could be huge. learn now and always have a back up plan if things go wrong.


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## Olaf (Feb 5, 2016)

We lived in the city but last year we bought small piece of land and build there a small house. Actually this were our dreams. And this year after winter will be gone we have in plan to start to create a garden and try to have some vegetables. We have in plan also to build a greenhouse. I always thought that it is very easy to start and that there is nothing to think about. Ups... I was so wrong. But now it is still time to do all the work in peace and rationally. If there would be already system collapse I think we would not be able to grow food in time to survive. So as it was already mentioned - to grow food takes quite long time and sooner you begin better it is. So I hope that in next two or three years we will have nice garden and plenty of food.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Olaf you will also need to think of how you will preserve the food that you grow. Will you freeze, can, or dehydrate the vegetables?


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> Farming without oil, electricity, pesticides, pumped irrigation, and fertilizer will be much less productive and extremely labor intensive, and with no long distance transport the produce will have to be locally consumed. People living in areas of the country where farming is unproductive will have to relocate or starve. The first few years will see mass famine. This is one of the reasons experts say the die-off rate will approach 90% in a grid failure SHTF.


I have an establised farm. Orchards, vines, barns, sheds, HAND TOOLS to mend them all. I can make lumber and everything I need without petrol. I have been farming quite a while, canned goods, root cellar........

To protect things I have myself and many friends with various "tools".


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## Olaf (Feb 5, 2016)

Auntie said:


> Olaf you will also need to think of how you will preserve the food that you grow. Will you freeze, can, or dehydrate the vegetables?


Our plan for now is mainly just to eat to have some fresh vegetables. For shorter storage we will freeze. Like paprika, tomatoes, beans, carrots, etc.. Also to have onion, garlic and spices like basil, oregano, marjoram, caraway seed, etc. Only thing (for now) that we have in plan to dehydrate for longer time of use are beans. (red, white, green or brown) I don't know what else to grow on a garden that would be suitable for dehydrate and to use for long time. We have stored rice but this we can not grow on garden although we have very wet soil and plenty of water around. Do somebody has some suggestion what is easy to grow and it is suitable for dehydration and long time storage? Many thanks for all tips I do appreciate them.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Tomatoes, kale, spinach, onions, garlic, potatoes, all types of berries, melons, peppers, carrots these are a few things you can dehydrate.

Freezing: all vegetables and fruits.


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## Plumbum (Feb 1, 2016)

dwight55 said:


> ALL, . . . and I emphasize ALL, . . . urban areas have these latent thugs, . . . today just being the local trash talking thug who lives on handouts, welfare, cash jobs, and whatever he can steal and fence/pawn. Let the 72 hours go by that will empty out ALL local groceries, . . . all fast food places, . . . and 90% of the kitchens in urban America, . . . and you are going to have literally millions of latent thugs who just turned into Attila's grandchildren.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


Exactly my point of view, thats why I have farmed pleanty of lead to greet them!


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## Olaf (Feb 5, 2016)

Auntie do you have some experiences with growing plant in green house? We have in plan to make on garden small kitchen with stove and smokehouse. Greenhouse will be beside it and there is thought to give some pipes that would bring warm air to greenhouse from the kitchen. So I presume we would be able to use greenhouse till late autumn and early on spring. Bud I'm thinking what kind of vegetables to have there. Do somebody has some idea? Many thanks.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

The OP, MadT and T/n all make very great points. The time to start farming is right now. No read about it, but start doing it. It's also the time to reach out into the community and make those connections needed for all to survive long term. We're very lucky here. Our property sits between two small farms (less than 500 Acres Each), but there are larger tracts used for industrial farming (soy beans, field corn etc) and several farms that raise cattle goats and horses. While we o farm on a small scale, we have the ability to reach out and pull together a working community that stands a petty good chance at long term survival.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I'm trying to locate places on the farm to plant food plots and a garden. I pulled all of my implements out of the weeds and am getting ready to refurbish them. My plow needs two new draw pins, de-rusting and a coat of paint. The disk harrow will be more labor intensive with cleaning, repacking, preloading and greasing all of the bearings. I brought two pieces of the harrow home on a trailer. Farm implements are heavy as S#$^. Once the areas are established it's bush hog time.


Plowing will take all the rust off on the plow and harrow, mine shine each spring. Paint will poison your garden, paint the frames.


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