# No sun for 3 days, Solar back up plane



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Back up plane? LOL just saw what I did 
It finally happened,, No sun for 3 days and the batteries were not happy about it. I use my solar
for all my lighting and for small appliances. As a back up plan I had bought one of those $99 generators 2 cycle
and a battery charger from harbor freight. It was all in my solar room packed away under the batteries.
The gas was about a year old and due to be changed. But I figured "what the heck" If this was a real 
emergency I would use that gas so why not? I had put stabilizer in the gas and the 2 cycle oil was
already mixed in it. As I poured the gas in the generator I was thinking,,

" I'm not going to be happy when I'm dumping this gas out and draining the carburetor" 

The last time I used the generator the tank was low and i shut the gas off to the carb.
I pulled choke all the way on and gave it pull. It started and then stalled. I set the choke to 1/2
and much to my surprize it started right up with next pull. It ran like crap until it got warmed up
to where I could turn the choke off. 

This generator has a motor like a weed eater and it will run a very long time on a quart of gas.
After about 3 hours the batteries were in good shape. Ran it on 10 amps the cord got a little warm 

Note: I also use the soar power to pump all our water for 6 people 

I'm going to call this back up test run a success


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Yea, My batteries got down to 55% SOC and I had to put off doing stuff like laundry and minimizing other activities when we got so little sun for 3 days last week. With a few hours of wiring I've got the ability to hook the generator up to my inverter/charger but I've never done it.

Two days of sunshine so I did things like run the dehydrator and caught up on clothes washing ect. before the clouds rolled in today for 2-3 days of cloudy skies and a bit of rain. I'll still get 2-3 kwhs of power on a very cloudy/rainy day so the batteries get a bit of a charge.

Living on solar during the winter without cranking up the generator has it's challenges, but also it's rewards.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I've got a one battery / inverter system right now, . . . and a generator I've had for 5 years that has never ran yet. 

Probably should get it out and make sure it will work, . . . just know then I have to test run it every 60 days or so, . . . and I hate to tie myself to those things as they invariably get put off 'till it is too late.

But glad to see I'm not alone in the slow prep dept. Gonna be looking to add solar panels maybe next spring and a few more batteries.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Good thread, putting on a new metal roof in the spring, along with solar panels. Good to have more of an idea of what I'm stepping into.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm going up to charge my batteries with my 3100 W inverter genset Monday. It takes quite a while because the power is routed through a converter. I think they are under 50% at the moment but what can you do?


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> I've got a one battery / inverter system right now, . . . and a generator I've had for 5 years that has never ran yet.
> 
> Probably should get it out and make sure it will work, . . . just know then I have to test run it every 60 days or so, . . . and I hate to tie myself to those things as they invariably get put off 'till it is too late.
> 
> ...


I fire up my generator 3 or 4 times a year Dwight, just to make sure all is good to go. I make a special point of it just before Hurricane season. I am going to add another smaller Gen set as well just as a back up.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Prepared One said:


> I fire up my generator 3 or 4 times a year Dwight, just to make sure all is good to go. I make a special point of it just before Hurricane season. I am going to add another smaller Gen set as well just as a back up.


I simply cannot afford a "full house" gen set at this moment, . . . mine is a little 3500 watt unit from the local farm store.

My battery outfit will be only for lighting, . . . as my wife and I are just too old to mess with candles and flashlights.

When I finish doing my electrical panel, . . . I'll have a set of breakers that are on the emergency panel only, . . . I'll be able to plug in the battery unit there, . . . it'll be only for lighting, . . . a receptacle for a radio and the computer.

I'll have a total of 3 systems: normal, . . . gasoline backup, . . . and solar / battery backup. Should keep me at least in lighting and radio / TV / computer for news.

Not a perfect system, . . . but a workable system.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

For you guys running solar of one form or another, is there any protection from EMP? My Sunmodule 285 panels are not connected & are just currently in storage in my barn. For the present, their use is to power my Grundfos well pump & my two Humless solar generators during an extended outage. The pump & generators are in Faraday enclosures but I've done nothing with the panels. I've read unconnected panels should be fine but it is the "should" that concerns me. I'm considering getting some 16 mesh wire from TWP & building a cage for at least a few of them. That make sense or is it unnecessary?


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

EMP.
The panels will probably be fine but the inverter and charge controller may be fried. But since they are on much shorter wires than the wires that come in from the grid they may survive EMP. You pick your disaster potential and you take your risks. If the EMP is able to take out the solar electronics it will also take out a generator's built in controls and inverter.

Mesh would provide little if any protection against EMP. Well grounded high quality surge protectors may provide some protection.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

John Galt said:


> Mesh would provide little if any protection against EMP. Well grounded high quality surge protectors may provide some protection.


Talking about building a mesh Faraday cage in the barn to store my panels in... not active panels mounted outside. You still say mesh can't make a Faraday cage?


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

******* said:


> Talking about building a mesh Faraday cage in the barn to store my panels in... not active panels mounted outside. You still say mesh can't make a Faraday cage?


Yep,, I thought you were discussing protection after you mount the panels but the answer is still the same. Unless the mesh is woven super tight like fabric it won't stop most of the energy burst. Even if it is as tight as window screen 90% of the energy will get through.

disclaimer, I'm no EMP expert but as I understand EMP you're not looking at an electric bolt looking for a ground. You're dealing with an omnipresent energy wave that will saturate the air.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

John Galt said:


> Unless the mesh is woven super tight like fabric it won't stop most of the energy burst. Even if it is as tight as window screen 90% of the energy will get through.


You know, there is no part of prepping that confuses me more than EMP, as if you talk to 10 folks... you can get 10 different answers. Most literature I've studied says mesh is fine and is used in many applications... even in the glass doors of microwave ovens. Just that the openings have to be significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation. There are formulas used to determine the size of an EMP wavelength & seems all agree 16 wires per inch is enough to block the EMP.

Guess I'll stay confused. Sorry to have taken this discussion off topic but EMP concerns impact my use of solar.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

******* said:


> You know, there is no part of prepping that confuses me more than EMP, as if you talk to 10 folks... you can get 10 different answers. Most literature I've studied says mesh is fine and is used in many applications... even in the glass doors of microwave ovens. Just that the openings have to be significantly smaller than the wavelength of the radiation. There are formulas used to determine the size of an EMP wavelength & seems all agree 16 wires per inch is enough to block the EMP.
> 
> Guess I'll stay confused. Sorry to have taken this discussion off topic but EMP concerns impact my use of solar.


EPM puts out several different wavelengths, some of which are very small and others which may be over 100 yards in length. I just counted my nylon window screen and it is 16 wires per inch but I believe metal screen is a larger weave which may provide some measure of protection. Paul S. who was a member here for years was the expert and in some of his posts he pushed how important to have complete coverage if you wanted to block EMP.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

******* said:


> For you guys running solar of one form or another, is there any protection from EMP? My Sunmodule 285 panels are not connected & are just currently in storage in my barn. For the present, their use is to power my Grundfos well pump & my two Humless solar generators during an extended outage. The pump & generators are in Faraday enclosures but I've done nothing with the panels. I've read unconnected panels should be fine but it is the "should" that concerns me. I'm considering getting some 16 mesh wire from TWP & building a cage for at least a few of them. That make sense or is it unnecessary?


 That's a thing,, Even scientist disagree on what a solar panel would do in a EMP suwation.
I sure do wish that they would run some test with that EMP machine they have out west somewhere
and post the results.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

I am learning something new here , thank you guys .


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I'm going up to charge my batteries with my 3100 W inverter genset Monday. It takes quite a while because the power is routed through a converter. I think they are under 50% at the moment but what can you do?


Our temporary housing (31' travel trailer) at the retirement place in the mountains has 525Ah of batteries at the moment and the solar does well to keep that charged, but when we're there for several days without sun, it needs some help. For a while we just started the generator, but as you're seeing, the converter/charger does it's job at a rather slow rate. I picked up some 2awg cable and some 175 amp Anderson Polepole connectors. I wired one side of the connector directly to my truck's battery (fused, of course) with the powerpole connector (in a weatherproof boot) coming through by the front grille and wired the other end directly to the trailer's battery bank (also fused, of course). When the batteries need some assistance, I now plug them into the truck and let its 200 amp alternator do the work. It charges MUCH fater than solar or generator... from uncomfortably discharged to fully charged in 3-4 hours at an idle.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

The info from Jerry Emanuelson seems to be pretty good according to a couple of electrical engineers who've read the info.
FROM: Electromagnetic Pulse Protection - EMP - Futurescience.com
Getting Prepared for an Electromagnetic Pulse Attack or Severe Solar Storm
© 2009-2014 Jerry Emanuelson
If you have solar panels that are now in use, you can obtain some EMP protection by proper shielding and transient protection on the wires going to the panels, and by surrounding the panels with aluminum wire cloth (also known as hardware cloth). Aluminum wire cloth is somewhat difficult to find, but it is available. Aluminum wire cloth with openings of 0.4 to 0.5 inches will not only supply a certain amount of EMP protection, but can provide some protection against larger hailstones that can cause damage in severe weather. The wire cloth will block some of the sunlight, but the right size of wire cloth will block less than 15 to 25 percent of the sunlight. If you are making a new solar panel system, some consideration should be given to putting the solar panels inside of a cage made of aluminum wire cloth. This is much easier to do during the original installation. The cage of aluminum wire cloth should completely surround the panels. If your solar panels are mounted just above the ground (as opposed to a rooftop system), don't make the mistake of assuming that the soil below is a mystical perfect ground into which EMP magically vanishes. In a ground-mounted solar panel system, the wire cloth enclosure needs to go underneath the system, preferably underground.
Remember that in a complete solar photovoltaic system, the inverters and battery chargers, as well as the solar panels, need to have proper shielding and transient protection.
The best solution for shielding a solar panel is 20 mesh, high-transparency, aluminum or stainless steel wire mesh. Since this is a product that currently has to be made to order, the best alternative for most people may be the 8 mesh galvanized steel hardware cloth with 27 gauge wires. This is available from some of the Internet suppliers of wire mesh. An 8 mesh hardware cloth will let through some of the higher frequency components of nuclear EMP, but unless you receive a maximally effective EMP strike, this material should protect a solar panel. Unless you can afford to have some of the 20 mesh, high-transparency, wire mesh custom-made, the EMP protection of your installed solar panels will be a matter of compromise using less than optimal solutions, but solutions that are likely to work in most cases.
The wire mesh used for shielding should be either welded mesh or galvanized mesh.
If you plan to use solar cells or battery power, you will probably want to keep a small inverter under shielding. Inverters that can step up ordinary 12 volt DC power to a few hundred watts of household AC are not terribly expensive. For people who own protected photovoltaic solar cells, a number of DC-powered appliances have recently become available. There are also a number of DC appliances that are designed for recreational vehicles, but that can be used elsewhere. Transient protection (capable of reacting to the fast E1 pulse) must be supplied on the electronic components of any solar cell system, such as the inputs and outputs of charge controllers and inverters. Any wire runs of any length should be shielded.
If you're trying to protect an existing solar panel system, protecting the wiring (even if it is shielded) from transients will require the services of someone knowledgeable in EMP transient protection. In most cases, the most economical solution is to keep spare components, especially inverters and charge controllers, stored under electromagnetic shielding.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

well I layered it out at point A BOL = I have a 400 watt wind turbine and a generator and my secret weapon a old Chinese bicycle human powered generator I picked up 2 of them at a surplus store for about 400 bucks they suck cause they will tired your azz out but they will produce electricity. Now at the primitive BOL point B no power it is all off grid except for a few solar motion lights.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Yep, making just 100 watts for more than a minute or two is serious work unless you are in great shape. I used to have a seriously fit friend pull the wheels to test gearing platforms hooked to PMAs making about 100 watts..


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