# Which handguns will survive the nasty conditions of SHTF?



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm reminded of Eddie Rickenbacker, WW1 Ace fighter pilot, whose transport ditched in the Pacific in WW2 and who spent 21 days in a raft. He tried to keep his revolver in working condition for as long as possible by lubricating it with oil from behind his ears. But it eventually rusted solid, and he threw it overboard.

Which automatic or revolver will last the longest in brutal conditions with no oil or cleaning kit?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

S&W stainless revolver. 2nd choice would be a Glock.

I would put my money on a Remington 870 Marine Magnum. I've had one out in my unheated shop through -20 winters and 100 degree summers with 95% humidity for almost 10 years. Never oiled or cleaned and it still looks like new. Functions great never had a problem. Of course it's not a handgun., but it does have a pistol grip if that counts.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

S&W Stainless Steel 1911. 

I have one and carry it whenever it is applicable.

Also use Wilson Combat Stainless Steel mags with it.

With it, S&W Stainless Steel revolvers Like the ones I have, 629, 60, 66, 63, 642.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Most certainly the firearm made of Stainless Steel.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Agree with the above. Stainless steel revolver or 1911, Glock. Hard to imagine not being able to scrounge some sort of lubricant.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

here's an article that was bouncing around the net the other day .....

Top 9 Reasons Why You Need a Revolver for Self-Defense - The Prepper Journal


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)




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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Sasquatch said:


> View attachment 47482


Pfft ....


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The problem today is not just the lone stickup guy, but 2 or 3 BLM types shaking you down.

You will most likely expend 6-12 round on three perps if it comes to it.

I carry either a S&W Mod. 60 or a S&W Mod. 642 as backup to either a 1911, commander or a SIG 228.

There is a Mod. 66, 2-1/2 inch in the headboard of my bed and my kid has its twin in hers.

Both are loaded with the now banned Black Talon.

My primary midnight bang on door gun is a S&W 629, 4 inch, also loaded with black talon.

I prefer stainless steel guns, 

all my non stainless auto loader carry handguns have been retrofitted with stainless steel barrels.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I would have to agree you can't go wrong with a SS revolver. The Remington 870 Marine Magnum is on my short list.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

With the exception of a salt water environment, a Colt Government Model 45 will be functioning for a long, long time.
I only own one stainless steel handgun, but then I'm not a commercial Atlantic fisherman. A Charter Arms Bulldog 44 Special.

A stainless steel weapon goes against my natural, Army honed instincts to avoid anything bright and shiny in the event I need to not draw attention to my position.


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## Redwood Country (May 22, 2017)

I carry S&W Revolvers. .38, 357 & 44

I carry Glock Semi Auto's. 45ACP

I own these because of this exact question. Every other handgun that I own is for sport or hobby.

I also like Chipper's Remington 870 Marine Magnum rec. Not a handgun but as far as reliability... yep, all day, every day.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

If you have the cleaning supplies then any quality manufactured pistol would serve you well. If you don't then the simpler the gun the more use you will get out of it. I'd say you would probably get the most use out of a single shot TC contender type or a cap n ball pistol. Other than that I'd say a single action revolver would probably last the longest.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

I might know a bad man with a SS 642 stashed in Tupperware in the bilge of his boat. 2 years in the Tupperware, one in the bilge. He will carry it tomorrow just because.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

The example given by the OP is a nonsensical example as none of us are going to ditch our B17's and have to stay afloat in the Pacific.

We are for the most part land dwellers, . . . and even for those who are boat inclined, . . . they probably eat meat. If the stuff is dripping off the fan blades big time, . . . we'll still be eating some kind of meat, . . . which has some kind of fat, . . . which can grease any firearm known to man.

Yeah, . . . stainless might be alright, . . . and a Glock probably beats a brick, . . . but I'll take my 1911, . . . grease it with possum fat from this morning's kill, . . . gnaw on the bones, . . . and continue to hunt.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

I know the OP said handgun, but lets be honest in a long term survival situation your primary means of putting food on the table and defending whats yours is going to be a long gun. Its hard to argue against a WW2 mil sup bolt action rifle with a good supply of ammo. A good old fashioned single shot or double barrel 12 gauge shotgun would be a good pick as well. The movies claim the Colt Single Action Army tamed the west, while historians will tell you it was the simple shotguns that where found in almost every homestead.


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## Mrs. Spork (Jan 30, 2017)

Y'all got it all wrong, it's the purty guns like mine what's gonna last! ;-) seriously tho the gun you properly care for and maintain will last









Sent from my SM-G530R7 using Tapatalk


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

I don't know how many of you watch the mud tests that Inrangetv do on youtube but they've had some interesting results with pistols. The Luger and 1911 both performed much better than a modern Glock 19


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Unless I missed it, nobody has mentioned a very basic fact. In a world gone to Hell there are going to a million abandoned vehicles. Each of them with enough motor oil to lube a gun for the rest of one's life.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> Which automatic or revolver will last the longest in brutal conditions with no oil or cleaning kit?


Same answer as the rest.
Any SS revolver or Glock.
If you can't lube or clean the gun, these two will run forever under normal wear conditions.
Add any environmental conditions you like, and time will turn any firearm into a fancy paperweight.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I gotta go with the others and a SS revolver! In my case S&W627 8 shots of .357MAG and/or Ruger Super Redhawk 44MAG.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You may be shocked most of the current weapons will do just fine. As for lube . You can use Lard, grease it does not have to be modern magic oils.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

Any gun that John Browning came up with!


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

I would start to think about what effect ATF and motor oil would have on polymer frames.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

jim-henscheli said:


> I would start to think about what effect ATF and motor oil would have on polymer frames.


 Lot of people use ATF, SYN engine oil . Read up on the silly special mixes some come up with looking for a magic lube. Of things tha concern me post SHTF . My weapons lasting is not one of them every one of them will be around long after I am gone and a generation after that.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

All the votes for stainless guns got me doing a little research. Turns out S.S. isn't the corrosion king we thought it was; the sailing industry has known for a while.

The following is an excerpt from Brion Toss's book "The Complete Rigger's Apprentice - Tools and Techniques for Modern and Traditional Rigging" (International Marine; Camden, Maine 1998):

"Stainless steel...is susceptible to its own special form of decay: crevice corrosion, also known as oxygen starvation. Stainless steel contains significant amounts of chromium. When exposed to the atmosphere the surface oxidizes slightly and a thin film of chromium oxide forms, preventing any further oxidation. If exposed to water, salt or fresh, without the presence of air, this film will not form and the metal will corrode. If the water in question is salt water, the process is accelerated."

Grade SAE 316 is the stainless most resistant to corrosion and used in marine applications, but I can't discover if firearms are constructed from it. (They do use it for medical implants and to clad nuclear reactor fuel.)

http://www.bosunsupplies.com/Corrosion/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_grade_stainless


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

@sideKahr, 316 is no good for gun parts, too soft and not hardenable.

There is a trade off, the more resistance the softer the steel.

The two key materials additives used to create stainless are nickel and chromium.

Nickel is the resistance key, but kills hardening, chromium ads hardness but takes away ductility.

The new mixes over the last 20 years have come a long way in solving the problems.

Those steels used in firearms are not true stainless steels but are of greater corrosion resistants.

Another common stainless is 304, which I just spent the last four days making parts out of.

Regardless of its short comings, I prefer those made from stainless over non (carbon) stainless.

SIG mags are made from the poorest crap carbon steel, you can almost watch them rust.

I modified S&W stainless steel mags to fit my SIG because of the problem.

I had even Parkerized them to MIL SPEC with little result for the effort.

That surface film you described can be produced, it is called passivating, been applied to military components now for almost 60 years.

Basically it makes the surface non reactive.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Thanks, @SOCOM42 . I was certain you would have a handle on the problem.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Hey, @SOCOM42 , what is your opinion on the DLC coating (Diamond Like Coating, LOL) that Kahr uses on their stainless pistols?


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Aside from salt water--Glock


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## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

SS revolver. When talking about harsh conditions, little or no maintenance/lubrication, over an extended period of time, it seems the obvious choice in handguns.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Ruger P series many have been around a long time they have not turned to dust or vanished into thin air. My old P89 DC sat in a box for 15 years never touched until son got it out and found out how nice a full size it was. Now he has it.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

sideKahr said:


> Hey, @SOCOM42 , what is your opinion on the DLC coating (Diamond Like Coating, LOL) that Kahr uses on their stainless pistols?


It is a nitride process which gives a good surface hardness.

There are several brand names for it, but all add carbon to the surface mix.

You have to be careful, that surface can gall based on the substrate.

Those guns are made 15 miles from me, and we use the same company for bluing!


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

If you look closely at a S&W revolver, you will see a slight difference in the color between the cylinder, 

barrel and frame.

They are different steels, cylinder is darkest because it has the least nickel for strength,

barrel the whitest, more nickel.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Any 1911 and any Glock.

I'd make the 1911 a .45 ACP, and the Glock a 9x19mm. If this is TEOTWAWKI, (or unless you're a bullet caster and reloader) ammunition choices might be limited. Those are the most common after the .38 SPL.


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## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> All the votes for stainless guns got me doing a little research. Turns out S.S. isn't the corrosion king we thought it was; the sailing industry has known for a while.
> 
> The following is an excerpt from Brion Toss's book "The Complete Rigger's Apprentice - Tools and Techniques for Modern and Traditional Rigging" (International Marine; Camden, Maine 1998):
> 
> ...


That is from salt water and SS lasts much longer then non SS.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Oh, I forgot to add one thing. When it came to making my choice, I bought Kimber UC2.

They offer a .22LR kit. Field strip the .45 ACP, slide on the 22LR kit, and insert the .22LR magazines. I bought four of them because most stoppages are causes by the magazines.


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## BlackDog (Nov 23, 2013)

SOCOM42 said:


> Both are loaded with the now banned Black Talon.


Nothing to add really to the thread and nothing personal to SOCOM42, but just wanted to attempt to clear up this longstanding urban legend. Black Talons were never banned. They were taken off the market due to bad publicity and replaced with the Ranger SXT. Which is pretty much identical except for the lack of the Lubalox coating which gave the bullet it's black color. The coating never gave the bullet any armor piercing capability but was just an oxidizer creating the color.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

They were banned from sale here in this state.

I could not move any of the inventory on my shelves.

Just like the East German 7.62X39 which was also banned from sale leaving me with 30 cases of it.

However you are correct, the SXT is the same ammo minus the coating.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Contrary to what many like to think the M9 held up very well to harsh condition and abuse. Wish they were made by an American owner company but fact is they took a lot of abuse.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> the SXT is the same ammo minus the coating.


Rumor has it that the anagram of "SXT" actually means "same exact thing."


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

yes I would agree with smitty there I have carried and used an m9 is some pretty disturbing conditions -disgusting ones too and it seemed to always work as well as the ancient 1911 I carried in my earlier service years.
one thing you also have to think a bit about is revolvers are a bit more complicated than auto's so if you really bang one up(the revolver) and it just happens to go out of time or you crack the Crain on it in a shtf it's done were as a auto you can possibly replace a few things and it's salvageable. In my opinion.
but just for some FYI a stainless ruger Blackhawk convertible in 357/38-with extra cylinder in 9mm would be about the ideal survival hand gun for the simple reason of ammo you got 357 mag,38special family, 9mm,380acp all that can be used in the same handgun kind of neat isn't it the down side it is single action and there is no real fast reload.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Any new pistol has significantly better corrosion resistance to back then.
Sigs phosphate coated parts will no doubt help. P226 M11A1, and then you have to think of the ammo. Brass vs nickel.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

I'll take my CZ75


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

You don't want any weapon that claims to function without cleaning or lubrication.

Read history, it's happened before. The Black Rifle.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Its been mentioned in the past, so I believe its worth mentioning again. Most of us here have invested money into a firearms collection as well as stocking up some ammo. Why not go ahead and spend a little bit more and stock up on cleaning supplies. I haven't priced , but I imagine a couple hundred bucks would get you quiet a few patches and quiet a bit of oil and solvent. That way you can have whatever gun your heart desires and have the ability to keep it clean and ready to go.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Jammer Six said:


> You don't want any weapon that claims to function without cleaning or lubrication.
> 
> Read history, it's happened before. The Black Rifle.


I'd love to read up on this history.
Do you have a link to any such weapons promoted to never require cleaning or lubrication?


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> I'd love to read up on this history. Do you have a link to any such weapons promoted to never require cleaning or lubrication?


It is rumored that during development, Gaston Glock to the prototype out every morning and fired numerous rounds through it.

The final report was that it went +100,000 rounds without cleaning, and the group opened up an inch from wear.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Fact Huldra gas piston (Adams arms) Ar 15 4800 rounds with no cleaning or lube before first fail to feed
Many of the modern hands guns will fire a lot of rounds without cleaning if need be.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Stevens, R. Blake., and Edward C. Ezell. _The black rifle: M16 retrospective. Ontario, Canada: Collector Grade, 2004._


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## Rabies (Jun 22, 2016)

If your worried about rust, there is a special coating called paint! It was invented hundreds of years ago! It's been used on batlle ships, boats, cars, houses, tools guns and God knows what else!!! Rust olium paint was invented to work on metal to fight off rust! Who would've thought!

It's amazing to me that on a prepper forum a simple can of spray paint is so over looked!


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Rabies said:


> If your worried about rust, there is a special coating called paint! It was invented hundreds of years ago! It's been used on batlle ships, boats, cars, houses, tools guns and God knows what else!!! Rust olium paint was invented to work on metal to fight off rust! Who would've thought!
> 
> It's amazing to me that on a prepper forum a simple can of spray paint is so over looked!


You've got to be joking! You spray paint your firearms?


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## Rabies (Jun 22, 2016)

sideKahr said:


> You've got to be joking! You spray paint your firearms?


I have an muzzle loading carbine made in Austria in 1830.....it still has the original paint on it! this was very common during the Crimian Wars!
was also done in the Civil War, WW1, WW2. Look at any original Lee Enfield, if it is truly original it is painted!

So yes some of my goto firearms are painted, my car is painted too! so is my boat and my house! many firearms come from the factory with paint on them......they just give it a fancy name but paint is paint

have you ever seem a CZ 75? guess what.....its painted!


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm speechless.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

From the factory, my Galil's are manganese phosphate processed then painted over, except for the barrel assembly.

S&W aluminum frames are coated with a paint form.

My #4 MK2 Enfields have all the metal minus the bolt and rear sight painted.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Take an old weapon clean it coat it with plain old CLP put it away a few years it may surprise you.
Enfield was brought up. This is my #4 MK1 Had it a long time. been sitting in vault untouched for many years now. Took a couple deer with it had some fun cleaned it CLP coat and put away. Had not though about until reading the last post.
Not a spot of rust any where.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Illini Warrior said:


> here's an article that was bouncing around the net the other day .....
> 
> Top 9 Reasons Why You Need a Revolver for Self-Defense - The Prepper Journal


Only problem is it's a bear to reload if you've only got one hand working. We lost a really good guy about 20 years ago cause he was required by state law to carry a revolver.


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