# Bugging Out or Staying Put?



## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

I have been struggling with this for quiet some time. So have been planning for both, I tried searching the forums for threads about this as I am certain it has come up but couldn't find them, sorry.

*Which is better to Bug Out or Stay Put?*

I have spent my entire adult life learning skills, rather than hoarding equipment, cause equipment can break, can be stolen, can be lost, wear down, be damaged etc. Skills stick with you, and increase if you use them on a daily basis, they are weightless, and when combined with other things like common sense, survival instinct, experience, and etc, well your mind is the most important tool in your kit.

But there is pros and cons to both staying put and staying on the move. I myself am definitely a scavenger, and believe eventually by staying put I risk meeting an overwhelming force which I am unable to defend against. Not only this but having what others want is a big red target on your back. Where if you are extremely resourceful and unlike most have the opportunity as I have to spend a huge chunk of your time learning skills, and getting training through various resources, well you can live off nearly nothing, keep under the radar and be extremely lethal in your resolve to survive.

So you know what my bias is, what is your bias, and why? Not looking to debate against you, merely learn from you and see outside perspectives.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Life is a fluid situation and shtf will certainly not make it change. People will lose stability like nickels in a pocket with holes in it. You'll have to decide just like the rest of us depending on what happens and the homefront is like. If it's chaos here, too dangerous, or environmentally hazardous, the foods run out, the chances of survival are better elsewhere, I'm gone.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I've lived off the land enough to know I am staying put and if it comes to it dying in place. Bugging out to scavenge and live off the land may look or sound romantic, but the reality is it will be a brutal existance. 
IMO everyone will have to contend with other people killing you for your stuff, it doesn't matter is that is a stocked house or a stocked backpack. The advantage of staying put is security, comfort, fellowship with family's members and friends, food, shelter, knowledge of the terrain, edible local plants, neighbors, I could go on for a long time.
Bugging out with a good setup gives you a small food stock, enough ammo for 2 good fire fights and very little room for error. If you get the flu, sprain an ankle, infected wound or a freak winter ice storm/hurricane/natural disaster that could be all it takes to turn the tide. 
You could offset some of these disadvantages with a couple cashe's to prolong your misery, at a minimum I would do that.
With all your skills it would be smarter to find a stocked prepper that needs some extra manpower and start a conversation.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Location, Location , location 
Depends where you are, We are buging in. Away from major cities and even a ways from some smaller ones. Plenty of room ,good shelter we can defend.
Everything we will need can be gad here.
The requirement to defend is why we have chosen to prepare as we have, it has been number one on the list.
If I lived in Milwaukee or Madison I would RUN.


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## jc-hunter (Nov 13, 2012)

At 54 yrs. old, and for several reasons, I have come up with this plan/plans:
A. Bug in as long as possible, with as much as possible. I have planned for 6 adults so there are hopefully enough people to defend the home.
B. Even though Plan A is in place, plan B is mobile with (3) 4wd vehicles to bug out with and try to take the basic survival items onboard. But with no real destination other than "the backcountry".
C. Plan C is in the worst case scenario of, vehicles wont run and home is undefendable or on fire. That would be to bug out on foot with weapons and bug out bags. Same , no real destination.
I dont know what else I could add to these, other than trying to find a bugout destination. But any other homes would likely be in the same situation as why we left ours, so the backcountry seems like the best destination. Especially since 3 of us know it well. Far enough out to be secure, but close enough to come in and try and scavenge without harming innocent people. I have no problem harming evil people to get what we need, but we will not take advantage of good innocents.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

^^^^ this.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I strongly feel that my current homestead is the bug out location, so I intend to defend it as a last refuge, unless nuclear fall out were involved at which point we would load up in the F350 and GTFO.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I've spent a lifetime hoarding equipment....and practicing skills...lol

True things can be lost or stolen, and I accept that as a chance I take. Prepping is nothing more than taking the necessary steps to give yourself the best shot at surviving a disaster or crisis. Everybody starts in a different place. Urban or rural, own or rent. Apartment or house. Good neighbors bad neighbors...no neighbors. Single or married with or without children. Wealthy middle class or poor. Pro gun or no gun. 

That said, If my starting place is in an inner city one room flat next to gangbanger central...I'd be bugging out to a second location ASAP! provided I had a safe or safer place to go to and a safe way to get there. On the other hand, If I was in a stable rural community then what would be the point of bugging out.


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## JPARIZ (Feb 25, 2013)

I've given this quite a bit of consideration myself. If I "bug out" it's going to happen long before TSHTF or long after. This is for several reasons. #1. Most normal means of getting out of Dodge will be impossible and I'm NOT getting stuck via accidental or intentional roadblock with too many eggs in my basket.
#2. My BOL is secure for as long as necessary. It will wait for me.
#3. Everything I need is right here and it's defensible. 
#4. Home is one heck of a lot more comfy.
#5. I have pets.
#6. Over time the population will decrease which increases my chances of escape.
Bottom line is I have both options. I'll hold out here until it is impossible to remain. The trick is invisibility.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

We don't have a personally owned bug out location, but we do have locations that are of significant distance away that we are welcomed at, and are expected, if we had to get the hell out in a hurry. If we had to walk out, we have a few places, but I have minimal confidence in getting everyone moving in stereo, if you will, for a forced march.

I hope that by the end of summer a recently aquired RV will be through the planned renovations and updates that we could head for more remote areas. Lotta work to do before that though.


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## JPARIZ (Feb 25, 2013)

Might want to consider alternate methods of travel.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Indeed. It's but another option, even if a preferred option.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

We will be staying put. Although, we will be on several thousand acres in Montana with friends and family near so it makes it much easier that way. We have cattle,chickens and sheep. One I get there and we get our stuff straight I would like to add quail,pheasant and rabbits. We also have a very large garden and several water sources. Not to mention the elk,deer, pronghorn and the rest of the wild animals. I am also planning on adding some dairy cows and hogs into our situation.
We are working on solar,wind and geothermal setup also. My goal it get get off grid as much as possible. The sheep will even give us wool.
We also have several fuel tanks on the ranch that would last a while if the power were to go out for an extended amount of time.Most of the gas and on road diesel is used in the vehicles for running to town and stuff. So if SHTF we would stay out of town for a while and that would save fuel for us to use on generators and other things we needed. The off road diesel we would still use for the machinery to cut and gather hay for the animals and since the DOT man wont be around we could still use off road diesel in the vehicles.But we are trying to get things set up where we need the least amount of fuel as possible.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

PrepConsultant said:


> We will be staying put. Although, we will be on several thousand acres in Montana with friends and family near so it makes it much easier that way. We have cattle,chickens and sheep. One I get there and we get our stuff straight I would like to add quail,pheasant and rabbits. We also have a very large garden and several water sources. Not to mention the elk,deer, pronghorn and the rest of the wild animals. I am also planning on adding some dairy cows and hogs into our situation.
> We are working on solar,wind and geothermal setup also. My goal it get get off grid as much as possible. The sheep will even give us wool.
> We also have several fuel tanks on the ranch that would last a while if the power were to go out for an extended amount of time.Most of the gas and on road diesel is used in the vehicles for running to town and stuff. So if SHTF we would stay out of town for a while and that would save fuel for us to use on generators and other things we needed. The off road diesel we would still use for the machinery to cut and gather hay for the animals and since the DOT man wont be around we could still use off road diesel in the vehicles.But we are trying to get things set up where we need the least amount of fuel as possible.


how much will all this cost?


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## JPARIZ (Feb 25, 2013)

What is your life worth?


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## Kidzthinkimahoarder (Feb 11, 2013)

Staying put. We live in a rural community about 20-30 miles from 3 different towns. Our little mountain top is covered with friends and family and I feel that several of us would pull together and stick together.

As a 42 year old woman, I've never thought about the way I was raised or have chosen to live as skills of a prepper, it was just the way we lived. So.. between my husband, boys, family, and the few friends we'd band with... we have our bases covered.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

alterego said:


> how much will all this cost?


 Who cares? It will be a little expensive but it is worth it to me! I have a friend that has a ranch that we are going to live next to. We help with the ranch and we get some benefits in return. We have helped build a few of their places and they are going to help us build ours. We have a sawmill and everything. The insulation and roofing materials will be about the most expensive part. I have worked as a diver on the oil rigs and overseas security contractor and able to save over the years. I did lose quite a bit when the market crashed in 08 but still have a little to play with.
But who cares what it costs. Like someone just said, how much is your life worth? We have most of the stuff set up already. Not quite everything but enough to get things rolling. I don't go out drinking on weekends and stuff like i used to. I used to spend WAAAYYY too much money partying, I learned to slow down and spend my money a little better.. Others should do the same. 
The main question is. How much are you willing to spend to save yours and your families life??


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Big part of being prepared in making as much as you can a part of your life. It becomes your norm.Another reason we are staying put.
Planting trees for the fuel. Whatwe need will be here.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

JPARIZ said:


> I've given this quite a bit of consideration myself. If I "bug out" it's going to happen long before TSHTF or long after. This is for several reasons. #1. Most normal means of getting out of Dodge will be impossible and I'm NOT getting stuck via accidental or intentional roadblock with too many eggs in my basket.
> #2. My BOL is secure for as long as necessary. It will wait for me.
> #3. Everything I need is right here and it's defensible.
> #4. Home is one heck of a lot more comfy.
> ...


I'm of the same mind. I'll stay as long as possible. All situation are different so decisions have to be made at time of impact; what ever that might be. I'm 20 miles south of a major city but the evacuation routes in pretty much any scenario are to the north. Out BOL in our case is 8 mikes south of us with 6 different routes of access.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm a city feller and will be using the PIBE strategy (Play It By Ear), because it all depends on what kind of Apocalypse hits us.
Basically I'll hopefully stay snug and safe in the city and will only get out into the countryside to forage for brussel sprouts etc and live in my tent if I HAVE to.
_"It's a dangerous business going out your door"- Bilbo Baggins _
Here's my Doomsday List in no particular order-

1- *Chernobyl-type nuclear plant accident*, but on a much bigger scale, poisoning an area as big as the USA or the whole of Europe and Asia.
2- *Massive meteor or asteroid strike *wiping out millions with blast and tsunami, and kicking up enough dust to black out the sun for years like what clobbered the dinosaurs.
3- *World War 3 exchange of nuclear weapons *poisoning virtually the entire planet.
4- *A plague *wiping out most humans on earth after accidental release from a bio research lab, or a deliberate release by terrorists to wipe out the population of a specific country, or perhaps a virus naturally evolves that has no cure.
5- *EC Event (Economic Collapse)* triggering total breakdown of law and order resulting in looting gangs etc. 
6- *EM pulse (from a solar flare or nuclear bomb)* blows out the electricity grid and electronics, it'll be bad but hopefully the govt will have contingency plans to get relief food and medicine convoys up and running.
7- *Mega-earthquake *bigger than anything the earth has experienced before, demolishing a whole bunch of cities across countries or continents.
8- *Mega-tsunami *triggered by gigantic quake at sea, wiping out coastal areas for a hundred miles or more inland.
9- *Runaway volcano *that carries on spewing out dust and ash for months, throwing a grey wind-carried shroud around the planet blocking out sunlight and triggering subzero temperature drops.
10- *Haywire weather *(nonstop storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards, floods etc) caused by global warming, pollution, ozone depletion etc


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

We are not going anywhere. Our homestead is in a rural area, on a dead end dirt road six miles outside a one stoplight town of 2,000.
I grew up and lived for many years in the megaopolis of South Florida. We had an opportunity to get out in the 90's and we took it.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Bug out to where? Where someone else already is? Someone else's property? Unless prior arrangements are made to be somewhere else you are probably best to sit still. There are things you can do to help make the situation better like making a safe room. Water collection & storeage system, etc.

So many I see post they will just burn wood to cook on. That smoke is a signal to everyone that sees it that food is ready. LP gas is a good choice.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I've never seen bugging out as a long term solution, unless it's done to get to a second location that is safe, stocked up and ready to go. I do see myself possibly having to bug out for short periods of time due to temporary problems or hazards in my immediate area. 

I think having several remote locations away from ones primary location with plans to return when the situation eases is worth consideration. Yet is at best a risky, when all else fails, save your life, last ditch measure and as such should be considered carefully and not undertaken unless absolutely necessary.


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## snork (Mar 4, 2013)

I plan on both. Initially i will stsy home but we have a nuclear power plant 10 miles away, so if it loses power and nack up power then the plan is to head 50 miles away where family owns a house on an acre of land in the country. That location is further from population, but also further from my preferred food source (seafood from the ocean). Although we can bike or even hike the 50 miles if we had to, i prefer my current location as i have stuff stored here and have been making plans if shtf.


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## jc-hunter (Nov 13, 2012)

I am thinking that after the first 30 days, a fair number of people will be dead and therefore a lot of empty houses across the USA. Depending on the type of scenario and your part of the country, if you are bugging out, it may not be too hard to find an unoccupied house. You may have to bury, or burn some bodies, but eventually a place could be found, here and there.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

We plan to stay put and hunker down, but we also have BOBs and BOVs if the situation requires it. We now live in what was our BOLs, so we plan to defend them. 

Nukes or a wildfire might make us have to roll out, but anything short of that can't, and anything coming into our 360 degree field of view faces an uphill battle against crack sharpshooters. 

If it cannot fly, it cannot get to us. If it can fly, it better know how to crash land....


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I just moved from a big city into a small town surrounded by grain and vegetable farms, Apple and cherry orchards and vinyards. There is plenty of running water and the folks are ok so far. I am getting to know my neighbors and trying to find a group for support. A man and wife alone won't last long but if you can find folks you can trust then you might have a decent chance to make it through the tough times. 
Right now I am building a shop and next is a garage. Once the shop is up it will make everything easier on me. (I do have family in the area and may need to support them or get support from them when times get tough. The nice thing is that I own the whole thing outright - no loans.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

So I read through the replies and I very much appreciate them all. If it helps any of you to answer to my situation specifically, I live in Colorado Springs, in an apartment where 50 - 60% of my neighbors are military. The guy above me is the maintenance guy, his is a proper creeper, and while he would be useful I would never turn my back to him. My neighbor across from me is a 22 y/o mil kid, not bad, been helpful, probably best bet. The apartment above that is vacant, the guy above that is ex military but then he found Jesus and wants to bless everything from your dog to the napkins on your table, which is fine but just not sure if he would swat flies now. The guy on third floor above me not even sure about him, I know his wife is military and he seems decent, haven't met her.

I have a sliding glass patio door, and its on the first floor, really hard to secure, and being a mile or less from downtown it just seems like it would be hard to make defensible. The redeeming factor is that there is a pond about 300 yards away where you could draw water from to make potable. I'm working hard to save up for a 1 acre plot some where well outside of town to build a house, but all things take time, and time is something none of use have guaranteed.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Sar-1L,
Your sliding glass door can be hardened using steel brackets that you can slide a 2x4 through. Leave as little space between them as you can and stack the brackets on both sides of the door all the way to the top. Keep some twenty 2x4s handy to slide in when you want to be fully protected. That will leave about 7/16" inch between the 2x4s on a standard 78" door. If you want more protection the put it on the inside of the 2x4s after they are in place. Painting the 2x4s with Sodium Silicate solution will make them nearly fire-proof (several coats and let it dry between coats). The 20 2x4s will cost less than $40 and the brackets and lag bolts will run about twice that. Ypou can use OSB to protect your windows if you don't mind living in the dark or you can buy Lexan sheets 1/4" thick and mount them like storm windows on the outside (removable). It isn't bullet proof but it can deflect a molotov cocktail or anything tossed your way by hand. You can baracade your doors the same way as the sliding glass door but use just four 2x4s per door. It will slow someone down when they are trying to get in and give you a chance to get a gun to defend yourself. The window treatments with Lexan are expensive but well worth it if you have a lot of entries that can be plugged.


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## grinder37 (Mar 1, 2013)

For me and my family,bugging out isn't really a viable option due to medical reasons,so what does one do?You build a fortress out of what you have and defend it the best that you can.Thank goodness I live out in the country with great water,two giant plus's for me


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The only drawback is that you might not have the help you need to stand watch or to fight a small or medium size group. Fortresses are no match for a determined force. Take a look at the castles in Europe. They couldn't stand up to the low tech armies of the day or even the peasants revolts. If you had neighbors who could band together it might make the difference between living and dying.


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## grinder37 (Mar 1, 2013)

PaulS said:


> The only drawback is that you might not have the help you need to stand watch or to fight a small or medium size group. Fortresses are no match for a determined force. Take a look at the castles in Europe. They couldn't stand up to the low tech armies of the day or even the peasants revolts. If you had neighbors who could band together it might make the difference between living and dying.


Luckily,I only have two niegbors and both are like minded prepping families that have their own skills along with mine and we are organised to assist each other as need be rather it be gardening,drinking a beer or helping defend each other with an ultimate plan of all three families falling back to one house should the need arise.Both of them have family members as well with medical issues.We'll fight as long as we can,we are not short on defenses,ammo or able bodies,including some of the kids.When you can't run,you make sure you become a damn good shot.I mentioned in an earlier thread of my two nieghbors/friends,my 13 yr old son and myself has now "robin hooded" arrows at 40 yds (my son got his right around two weeks ago).And we all just took up archery around one year ago,they all use compounds,I use a crossbow due to my neck/shoulder injury.So unless it's a large organised well armed gang,we fight till we win or we die trying.


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## jc-hunter (Nov 13, 2012)

(QUOTE)the guy above that is ex military but then he found Jesus and wants to bless everything from your dog to the napkins on your table, which is fine but just not sure if he would swat flies now. [/QUOTE]

I cant speak for him, but I would talk in detail to him about how things might go down. I, personally have given all of my being to Jesus. In an SHTF scenario, I would not blink an eye at defending my home and my family, and any innocent ,good people. I see evil as evil, and have no problem doing Gods work to eliminate vermin.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Every situation is different and there is no clear cut answer to what is best. We don't know what is going to happen nor when and we cannot predict the response of the people or agencies around us.


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## vulf (Feb 8, 2013)

I am fortunate that I have finally established a property where I plan to stay put and friends will bug out to me, but I do need to plan on a place to bug out to if SHTF where I live.


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## Wquon (May 9, 2013)

i would like to stay at my place once i get it set up, BUT depentding on situation i will up & leave. i do not wanna be that guy that endangers everyone else just cause im more confortable at the house. that being said ive done alot of looking for my i.n.c.h. bag & am bruching up on skills that will alow me not to be the guy lugging around a camper bad, haha.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

SAR-1L said:


> .... specifically, I live in Colorado Springs,.....................


I feel your pain! :-o
In 1969 I volunteered for Vietnam to get the hell out of Fort Carson and Colorado Springs. It was the pits then, probably still is.


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## PrepperDogs (May 12, 2013)

When the wife and I discussed bugging out or staying put, we decided to stay. The deciding factor? Water. If we lived in a city, we would definitely leave. Since we're staying we have adjusted our plans accordingly.

We live on a waterway with a unlimited supply. That being said, we also have to be extra vigilant from raider attacks.


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## Hardknocks24 (Nov 8, 2012)

I put this in thought when I got my second home close to a river between my house is deep woods then a river after that 3 loc is a another house with still bars on every door and window and a 360 view on a hill with well water and more country . I think if the Shtf !!!! I stand a decent chance of survial I hope. if all fails cut lose baggage and let it all burn so nobody gets anything


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