# So much for global warming.



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

The science I've read says we are heading into a grand solar minimum. The facts seem to back that up. A friend sent me this today. It covers much of the US and it ain't pretty.









Texas Could Be Hit AGAIN: mid-range Weather Models see more Record Cold engulfing the Lone Star State by the final week of March - Electroverse


But prior to that, residents of the Central United States should brace for feet upon feet of historic mid-March snow.




electroverse.net


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

Snow was starting at 1800ft on the left coast this morning. 

I hadn’t seen it this winter or last winter.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Say it ain't so!!!
Guess I'll keep the winter clothes out for one more month... BUT THAT'S ALL!
YA HEAR ME!
Can't take no more of this frizzle frazzle cold _grumble_ _grumble_.......


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Just wait for the Texas summer, it will be hotter than Hell, as usual. You won’t even remember that it was cold.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> Just wait for the Texas summer, it will be hotter than Hell, as usual. You won’t even remember that it was cold.


Yeah but we gotta get through this first.

Some are expecting blackouts due to the damage done to the grid. That will be fun in the 100+ degree weather.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Weather always changes. It’s only a crisis for idiots and a tool to control idiots. All four ice ages in the history of this planet ended with global warming. 3rd grade science solves the mystery.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> Weather always changes. It’s only a crisis for idiots and a tool to control idiots. All four ice ages in the history of this planet ended with global warming. 3rd grade science solves the mystery.


True but it's good to know what's heading your way. I hate surprises.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

inceptor said:


> Yeah but we gotta get through this first.
> 
> Some are expecting blackouts due to the damage done to the grid. That will be fun in the 100+ degree weather.


I foresee a 100% probability of Texas getting through the next round of winter. Maybe Texas needed it, because weather is a brutal taskmaster, and it is always ready, to teach us humility. It comes to us and we manage as best we can. God made us equal to that challenge, but it can overcome us, at least for a little while.

Texas needs to learn from it, and then spend the money that it takes, to upgrade. If that is the answer, then they need do that.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Don't worry I put my plow away for the winter. Spring is here.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> I foresee a 100% probability of Texas getting through the next round of winter. Maybe Texas needed it, because weather is a brutal taskmaster, and it is always ready, to teach us humility. It comes to us and we manage as best we can. God made us equal to that challenge, but it can overcome us, at least for a little while.
> 
> Texas needs to learn from it, and then spend the money that it takes, to upgrade. If that is the answer, then they need do that.


Actually it may really have done some good. ERCOT was commisioned to upgrade our system 10 years ago. They didn't and it failed big time. Some stepped down and others were let go. The SHTF in Austin and hopefully they'll do something about it now and upgrade the ancient equipment.


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## NMPRN (Dec 25, 2020)

Not to be controversial, but in a world that's falling apart due to a lack of truth, someone has to throw the bulls#it flag on that article. It's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. The author just stung a bunch of tinfoil hat techno-babble together in hopes no one would know any better.

The solar minimum was over and we were well into solar cycle 25 long before the storm hit Texas.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

It's winter. So it's cold and dark.
It's summer. And it's hot and bright.
That's all I need to know.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

NMPRN said:


> Not to be controversial, but in a world that's falling apart due to a lack of truth, someone has to throw the bulls#it flag on that article. It's the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. The author just stung a bunch of tinfoil hat techno-babble together in hopes no one would know any better.
> 
> The solar minimum was over and we were well into solar cycle 25 long before the storm hit Texas.


You may be right and NOAA may not know what they are talking about.









Global Cooling? NOAA Confirms ‘Full-blown’ Grand Solar Minimum - 21st Century Wire


21WIRE + Elecroverse | Unfortunately, history repeats: climate is cyclic, never linear.




21stcenturywire.com





Some scientists think we are going into a Maunder Minimum.









Physicist: Upcoming Grand Solar Minimum Could Wipe Out Global Warming for Decades


Unknown to most people except those with an interest in solar science, the sun is about to shut down. Well, not completely – we’ll still have plenty of sunlight and heat, but the small dark blotche…



www.climatedepot.com





It could be that Greta has it right and cow farts are causing all of this. I just don't remember a storm that massive this late in the year and covering so much territory. If you read the whole article then you saw that even the National Weather Service commented on this storm.



> This is what the *National Weather Service in Colorado* (NWS) has to say regarding the most recent models: “a large storm system is still on track to bring snow to the Front Range mountains, foothills, urban corridor and Eastern Plains. There is a chance for prolonged significant snowfall…”
> 
> Scott Entrekin of the NWS goes further: “If the largest projections come true, *it may be Denver’s biggest snowstorm ever*. It is coming on the heels of the city’s biggest snowmaker in five years, which dropped a foot of snow on Denver two weeks ago.”


Now granted it is a model and there are dozens of weather modeling programs out there. Each has a little different model. This is projected, not fact. Weather forecasting is some computer modeling and some guesswork. I'm a prepper for a reason. I don't just say someone is blowing smoke up my butt without verifying if he has a cigarette lit. I am also not a sycophant of Alex Jones or any of his off shoots. I do my own research.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Denver Could Get One of Biggest Snowstorms Since 1885 | AccuWeather 

"AccuWeather forecasters on Wednesday continued tracking the potential for a monster snowstorm to pound the Denver area in the coming days and possibly become one of the biggest snowstorms in the Mile High City’s history. The looming storm threatens to be a long-duration event that could result in snowfall totals that could reach 2 feet in Denver and pile as high as 3 feet in places west of Denver, such as Boulder and Fort Collins. Heavy snow will stretch north into Wyoming as well."

Boulder could get three feet of snow. They are saying it could be the biggest storm since 1885.


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## NMPRN (Dec 25, 2020)

inceptor said:


> You may be right and NOAA may not know what they are talking about.
> https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/09/05/global-cooling-noaa-confirms-full-blown-grand-solar-minimum


 (link to a 2017 NASA article written for school kids that just talks about the upcoming typical solar minimum of 2019) _many times before, albeit quietly. _(quietly my ass, he's just trying to make a conspiracy theory out of nothing. NASA, and NOAA, are anything but quiet about solar data. google "solar weather")_ But as one would expect in the current political epoch, any talk of ‘global cooling’ is not likely to generate headlines. _(more total nonsense, ever since they renamed "global warming" to "global climate change" every snow storm, heat wave, hurricane or mudslide gets plastered in the headlines because it's Trump's fault because he supported evil fossil fuels)

Sorry for the long winded rant but reading this guys article was like listening to liberal politicians talk about 30 round magazine clips with the thing on the stock that goes up


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

inceptor said:


> Actually it may really have done some good. ERCOT was commisioned to upgrade our system 10 years ago. They didn't and it failed big time. Some stepped down and others were let go. The SHTF in Austin and hopefully they'll do something about it now and upgrade the ancient equipment.


Austin is comparable to DC at least in the way that things are done, it just a smaller version of a government Capitol. 

I can guarantee you, that the ERCOT report was talked about in the Texas legislature. It was surely held up to be comparable to the New Testament in it wisdom. Then it was stuck on a shelf and forgotten about.

Politicians really are reprehensible skunks, and that is the reason that the power system, is not up to the job.
No one did the right thing, they did the convenient thing.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Denton said:


> Denver Could Get One of Biggest Snowstorms Since 1885 | AccuWeather
> 
> "AccuWeather forecasters on Wednesday continued tracking the potential for a monster snowstorm to pound the Denver area in the coming days and possibly become one of the biggest snowstorms in the Mile High City’s history. The looming storm threatens to be a long-duration event that could result in snowfall totals that could reach 2 feet in Denver and pile as high as 3 feet in places west of Denver, such as Boulder and Fort Collins. Heavy snow will stretch north into Wyoming as well."
> 
> Boulder could get three feet of snow. They are saying it could be the biggest storm since 1885.


I hope that Denver gets 5 or 6 feet of that fluffy white stuff; and then when the mini-crisis begins, of trying to function in it; I hope the plows break down. And then I hope that the electric goes down for a week. 

That is how character is built, by working you butt off just to stay warm. And a real shutdown of services, versus some cupcake near-miss: that would show Denver that living in the middle of the Rockies, comes with some drawbacks. And I am certain that the current residents are unaware of that possibility.

(The bitter old bastard feels better now.)


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> I hope that Denver gets 5 or 6 feet of that fluffy white stuff; and then when the mini-crisis begins, of trying to function in it; I hope the plows break down. And then I hope that the electric goes down for a week.
> 
> That is how character is built, by working you butt off just to stay warm. And a real shutdown of services, versus some cupcake near-miss: that would show Denver that living in the middle of the Rockies, comes with some drawbacks. And I am certain that the current residents are unaware of that possibility.
> 
> (The bitter old bastard feels better now.)


I don't feel that way. My son lives in Boulder and the company's office is in Denver.


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## VigilantTexan (Feb 26, 2021)

MisterMills357 said:


> Just wait for the Texas summer, it will be hotter than Hell, as usual. You won’t even remember that it was cold.


I'll take the heat over the cold any day all you need is shade.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

VigilantTexan said:


> I'll take the heat over the cold any day all you need is shade.


This member who was born and raised in Southeast Alabama but, thanks to Uncle Sam, spent many years in Germany, prefers the chilly over the sweltering.
I've been back in the Southeast for decades and I am looking forward to retiring and moving into my son's basement in Colorado.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> This member who was born and raised in Southeast Alabama but, thanks to Uncle Sam, spent many years in Germany, prefers the chilly over the sweltering.
> I've been back in the Southeast for decades and I am looking forward to retiring and moving into my son's basement in Colorado.


You won't like that part of CO. Your head will explode within a week.


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

While blackouts continue increasing I will be laughing my arse off as I sit here drink coffee, watch the sun come up and my current numbers goes up through my charge controller. Damn I love my off grid living. Ordered (22) 400W bifacial panels last week, can't wait to get them up with the rest.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Denton said:


> I don't feel that way. My son lives in Boulder and the company's office is in Denver.


I feel that way.

I feel that 5 or 6 feet of snow, would do wonders for Denver and Boulder. And I feel that a Cat 3 would do wonders for Tampa/St Pete. , maybe it would build a toughness into people, or it maybe it would humble them. Or maybe it would harden their hearts, we wouldn’t know until after the event or series of events.

Call me crazy, but America has dodged so many bullets; that it deserves a few right in the chest. All that the ease of life has done, is to allow the people to become removed from reality. And a lot of them are hateful to boot.

Maybe a few revivals would break out, where they could serve some humble pie. America needs that, and it doesn’t need any more leisure, it needs some reality lessons.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> I feel that way.
> 
> I feel that 5 or 6 feet of snow, would do wonders for Denver and Boulder. And I feel that a Cat 3 would do wonders for Tampa/St Pete. , maybe it would build a toughness into people, or it maybe it would humble them. Or maybe it would harden their hearts, we wouldn’t know until after the event or series of events.
> 
> ...


You are trying to wriggle away from your initial intention.

I think your line of reasoning is ludicrous. I would never wish meteorological havoc on your city, town, county; whatever. St. Pete doesn't need a hurricanes. 
We have hurricanes, floods, droughts and snowstorms. Seen any revivals breaking out? No. 

By the way; got any children who live away from where you live? Where? I'd like to know so that I can hope conditions can become threatening to their lives so that I may hope those conditions threaten their lives. Not that I would as that is not how I am. 

You want a revival. Of course. I do, too. We've learned that storms don't cause them, though.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Denton said:


> Denver Could Get One of Biggest Snowstorms Since 1885 | AccuWeather
> 
> "AccuWeather forecasters on Wednesday continued tracking the potential for a monster snowstorm to pound the Denver area in the coming days and possibly become one of the biggest snowstorms in the Mile High City’s history. The looming storm threatens to be a long-duration event that could result in snowfall totals that could reach 2 feet in Denver and pile as high as 3 feet in places west of Denver, such as Boulder and Fort Collins. Heavy snow will stretch north into Wyoming as well."
> 
> Boulder could get three feet of snow. They are saying it could be the biggest storm since 1885.


They are saying at this point that it may end up not being so bad. I hope they are right but when are weather people ever right?



MisterMills357 said:


> I hope that Denver gets 5 or 6 feet of that fluffy white stuff; and then when the mini-crisis begins, of trying to function in it; I hope the plows break down. And then I hope that the electric goes down for a week.
> 
> That is how character is built, by working you butt off just to stay warm. And a real shutdown of services, versus some cupcake near-miss: that would show Denver that living in the middle of the Rockies, comes with some drawbacks. And I am certain that the current residents are unaware of that possibility.
> 
> (The bitter old bastard feels better now.)


You would think people here would be better prepared but they aren't. I am always amazed at the run on the stores. gas stations and complaining that happens. 

This one is supposed to be heavy and wet snow. Power outages are being predicted so there will be more complaining that usual.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Auntie said:


> They are saying at this point that it may end up not being so bad. I hope they are right but when are weather people ever right?


I have watched meteorologists use 10-12 modeling programs at the same time. Some are right a fair amount of the time but none are consistently correct. Weather is one of the least accurate sciences known.



Auntie said:


> You would think people here would be better prepared but they aren't. I am always amazed at the run on the stores. gas stations and complaining that happens.
> 
> This one is supposed to be heavy and wet snow. Power outages are being predicted so there will be more complaining that usual.


Year after year, snow storms, hurricanes and floods occur in many of the same places. I agree people should learn and be better prepared. It seems they forget the moment things are normal again. But a toilet paper shortage because of a virus??? REALLY????


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

I’ve watched meteorologists try to predict what comes over the Great Lakes, so in otherwords Snowstorms that never came. To be fair, Snowstorms that snuck up on us Too.

Most accurate weather forecast- Springfield IL, look what happened in Denver 36 hrs ago.

No science is exact, otherwise Faucci would be 100% correct or 100% wrong. Should we ”Believe in the Science?”


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> You won't like that part of CO. Your head will explode within a week.


Brother, I'm on my third wife and was in the Army for many years. It won't be my head that explodes.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Brother, I'm on my third wife and was in the Army for many years. It won't be my head that explodes.


That should prove interesting. Give me a heads up and I'll youtube it.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Brother, I'm on my third wife and was in the Army for many years. It won't be my head that explodes.


I still got one on ya. I got rid of wife 3 at age 25. 10+ years single, it was kinda nice. This time around though I've been married 32 years.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

The only reason the term Global Warming was changed to Climate Change, was so the scam artists could say, "See, we saved the world." Then, when it gets cooler, they can say, "The sky is falling, the sky is falliing! We need to prevent the world from freezing!!!"


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Auntie said:


> They are saying at this point that it may end up not being so bad. I hope they are right but when are weather people ever right?
> 
> You would think people here would be better prepared but they aren't. I am always amazed at the run on the stores. gas stations and complaining that happens.
> 
> This one is supposed to be heavy and wet snow. Power outages are being predicted so there will be more complaining that usual.


The weather forecasts are notably better than they were 50 years ago: back then, it was the blind leading the blind.

And people are seldom prepared for a bad storm, much less a catastrophe . I don’t think that the modern American believes that a catastrophic weather pattern can even occur; it’s just some thing far away that gets talked about.

And I am as guilty as anyone of that, but I am leaving open certain acts of God, which will come as destruction. I think that will happen, plus I am being purposefully vague: because I don’t know what is coming, anymore than anyone else.


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## VigilantTexan (Feb 26, 2021)

Denton said:


> This member who was born and raised in Southeast Alabama but, thanks to Uncle Sam, spent many years in Germany, prefers the chilly over the sweltering.
> I've been back in the Southeast for decades and I am looking forward to retiring and moving into my son's basement in Colorado.


I'm like the the birds migration enjoy the north in the summer and get the heck out of dodge in the winter.


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## VigilantTexan (Feb 26, 2021)

MisterMills357 said:


> The weather forecasts are notably better than they were 50 years ago: back then, it was the blind leading the blind.
> 
> And people are seldom prepared for a bad storm, much less a catastrophe . I don’t think that the modern American believes that a catastrophic weather pattern can even occur; it’s just some thing far away that gets talked about.
> 
> And I am as guilty as anyone of that, but I am leaving open certain acts of God, which will come as destruction. I think that will happen, plus I am being purposefully vague: because I don’t know what is coming, anymore than anyone else.


I know what's coming and you can too, there's a book that can tell the future it's called Holy Bible.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

VigilantTexan said:


> I know what's coming and you can too, there's a book that can tell the future it's called Holy Bible.


I’ve read it, all of it, but thank you all the same. I have a pet part in Revelation, where Abaddon the angel of the bottomless pit is given a key, to open the pit. And a black smoke roils out, and in the smoke are evil creatures, and the have stings in their tails. They sting all people who have the Mark . 

That is a wild ride, and a lot of people don’t accept it as truth. What do you think about it? Is it true,are there evil beasts in the bottomless pit? I have no doubt that there are myself.


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## VigilantTexan (Feb 26, 2021)

MisterMills357 said:


> I’ve read it, all of it, but thank you all the same. I have a pet part in Revelation, where Abaddon the angel of the bottomless pit is given a key, to open the pit. And a black smoke roils out, and in the smoke are evil creatures, and the have stings in their tails. They sting all people who have the Mark .
> 
> That is a wild ride, and a lot of people don’t accept it as truth. What do you think about it? Is it true,are there evil beasts in the bottomless pit? I have no doubt that there are myself.


I know there is alot of symbolism used in revelation and I know when Gods seven vials of wrath are poured out you better have Gods mark not the beasts, also alot of christians believe in a pre tribulation rapture but the bible doesn't support it, Gods says those who endure to the end shall be saved and are tested to be accounted worthy for the kingdom. As for your question yes the abyss or bottomless pit is where demons will be released at the end of the age and the fallen angels are bound there until judgement day.


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## Murby (Jan 29, 2017)

The solar minimum you're talking about isn't going to have any real affect.. It just means there are fewer sun spots.. its like claiming there's a difference between shooting a water balloon with a 22 caliber or a 50 caliber... its not going to make any significant difference in what happens to the balloon. 

Global Warming is a misleading name. Never trust a scientist to name something.. let them figure it out, let someone else come up with the name for public consumption. They should have called it "Global instability". 

The sun does not change its radiance on human scales.. it takes millions of years for any real change to occur and it is based on helium buildup within its core. But what does happen is that the Sun goes through sun spot cycling every 11 years. Sun spots send more charged particles our way, which interact with our atmosphere to sort of "puff it up".. and since the atmosphere is puffed up a bit, the surface area facing the sun increases, which means an increase in solar absorption, which means an increase in temperature... Normally this is barely measurable because the earth radiates the thermal energy right back into space at night.. But since we've increased the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere, it means the earth will retain more of that heat. 

This is all complicated by ocean currents and the ice breaking free in Antarctica. Every time one of those massive chunks floats into the ocean, it lends us a giant air conditioner to cool things off.. so long as glaciers are breaking off, we're good.. when we run out of glaciers to break off, we're screwed...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Murby said:


> This is all complicated by ocean currents and the ice breaking free in Antarctica. Every time one of those massive chunks floats into the ocean, it lends us a giant air conditioner to cool things off.. so long as glaciers are breaking off, we're good.. when we run out of glaciers to break off, we're screwed...


The planet has been through periods where those areas had no glaciers at all, and in fact supported plant and animal life.
The only folks who might be screwed would be those too proud to leave their beachfront property.
It won't happen in my, nor my children's children's, lifetime.
We will adapt. We will survive. Thousands of species did before.
Our greatest arrogance will be those who think we can oppose or prevent it. Yeah, we might be getting there faster than before, but that doesn't make it any less inevitable. I'll do my part to slow it, but it won't be at the cost of becoming a guilt-slave to those in power who do nothing to change their own ways.


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## Murby (Jan 29, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> The planet has been through periods where those areas had no glaciers at all, and in fact supported plant and animal life.
> The only folks who might be screwed would be those too proud to leave their beachfront property.
> It won't happen in my, nor my children's children's, lifetime.
> We will adapt. We will survive. Thousands of species did before.
> Our greatest arrogance will be those who think we can oppose or prevent it. Yeah, we might be getting there faster than before, but that doesn't make it any less inevitable. I'll do my part to slow it, but it won't be at the cost of becoming a guilt-slave to those in power who do nothing to change their own ways.


With respect, the argument "the environment has changed before and therefor we'll be fine" is dead wrong. Its disturbingly and utterly wrong. In fact, its so wrong that its not even an argument as I suspect it's oil company propaganda pushed for public consumption.

And as with most BS propaganda, it needs to contain an element of truth in order to pass the smell test for those who don't know any better... So ya, the environment has changed before, but such changes take place over tens of thousands and millions of years... this gives the various lifeforms time to adapt to the environment. Problem is, humans are doing it in a time span of just a couple hundred years.

Its like shooting a bullet at you. If I shoot a bullet at you and the speed of the bullet is going 1 foot per second (LOL), then you have time to adapt.. move out of the way, catch it, or even outrun it.. But if that bullet is traveling at 1200 feet per second, there's nothing you can do.. you're screwed. Strangely enough, my metaphor doesn't even scale up with global warming as we've reduced the rate of change from 1 in millions to 1 in hundreds.

Most of the US population are scientifically ignorant. Whenever I get into one of these face to face discussions with someone and they disagree with me, the first thing I do is draw them a picture of three atoms.. A carbon atom, nitrogen and an oxygen atom, then ask them to pick out which is which.. If they can't perform such a fundamental and basic thing, then what the hell are they doing forming an opinion on an issue they know nothing about? Its like talking to a plumber and asking their opinion on how to remove a brain tumor..

Natural climate change isn't something to worry about, but man made climate change is going to destroy us. In fact, the issue is so serious that astrophysicists are now beginning to suspect that it is the reason we don't see evidence of extra terrestrial civilizations. Certain aspects of any society seem to most likely be universal.. The invention of the wheel, control of fire, manipulation of chemistry, etc, etc. And it is thought that the learning progress of pretty much any society will follow along the same general path. With this in mind, we now think that something called "The great filter" is the cause of our being so alone. Over billions of years, societies have popped up and killed themselves off.. and now its our turn.

The vast majority of Americans, like 99%, are scientifically illiterate, and because of this, they are prone to believing things that aren't true and are put out there to manipulate public opinion for the benefit of a few who's fortunes are made from oil. And of course, there's always the occasional con-artist who has legit credentials but would rather take a fat check to spew lies.

They pulled this same trick with Acid Rain in the 50's and 60's, Chlorofluorocarbons (the ozone debate of the 70's and 80's), the tobacco causes cancer debate of the 80's and early 90's, and now with global warming. In each and every case, scientists and researchers sounded the alarm, propaganda pushed back, and the scientists were found to be correct and society adjusted. (Ya, I'm old)
Acid rain was a minor inconvenience in the bigger picture, Chlorofluorocarbons almost killed all of us, and smoking, along with sugar, has turned our healthcare industry into an expensive mess.

When people are ignorant of something specific, they are easy to manipulate within that subject. Its gotten so bad that we have people dressing up as vikings with horns on their head and storming our government based on garbage information.

If you want the truth, you have two options: 1) Be lazy and just listen to the science community. This is easy, simple, reliable, and works. 2) Go to college, get a science degree and study the issue yourself. This requires hard work but pretty much assures you'll have a comprehensive understanding of the issue regardless of what anyone says. 

I'm a prepper, I'm also a retired engineer, amateur astronomer, and study astrophysics. Global warming is not a hoax.


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## Black 5 (Apr 6, 2020)

Damn. I thought I could be condescending.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Black 5 said:


> Damn. I thought I could be condescending.


Well, so far he has informed us that global warming is real, the vaccine is your friend and if you believe in God, you can't be logical. We're getting educated here. Thank goodness! There may be hope for me after all. Naw, I'm doomed.


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## Black 5 (Apr 6, 2020)

He does sound like an expert.


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

Murby said:


> With respect, the argument "the environment has changed before and therefor we'll be fine" is dead wrong. Its disturbingly and utterly wrong. In fact, its so wrong that its not even an argument as I suspect it's oil company propaganda pushed for public consumption.
> 
> And as with most BS propaganda, it needs to contain an element of truth in order to pass the smell test for those who don't know any better... So ya, the environment has changed before, but such changes take place over tens of thousands and millions of years... this gives the various lifeforms time to adapt to the environment. Problem is, humans are doing it in a time span of just a couple hundred years.
> 
> ...


If was the 60’s, I would agree with you. Look at pictures of LA smog back then. 
In the late 60’s a teacher had us do a play for the school. The main character was sniffing fresh air from a can and getting sunshine from a can because of the pollution. As an elementary student, I believed. 

Fast forward to living in LA in 2012, hey it’s not as bad as what it was or they painted out to be. 

FF to what the date was in the play, I remember the date cause I calculated how old I would be and am a couple of years past that now. I am not getting my sunshine out of a can.

Alarmists have been around for at least 50 years. Am I going to listen to an autistic HS girl or a Bartender about Global Warming/Climate Change? NO. I won’t ever listen to the former VP whose wife got the word dam banned from a song. What does he know?

Was acid rain a real thing, maybe. But one has to look at all the coniferous trees surrounding those lakes as a potential source too.

Look at old photos from 1880s-1910. Cities were dull and dingy. Hills and mountains were void of trees. I would agree with you, if things still looked like that.

We should be mindful, but not be intimidated by alarmists. In 10 years, their clock is going to be another 10 years out.

I am a retired salesman of such evil things as tobacco, chemicals (even saw a guy squirt Glyphosate in his mouth), and outdoorsman, now rancher. What you are being sold is a hoax.

Oh, and I have gone to school.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Since you seem to know so much perhaps you could enlighten the uneducated masses and tell us what will happen. What we can do to prevent it from getting worse. Please use words we don't have to look up. Dumb it down for us so we can comprehend your sentences. 

The American education system has let us all down. I don't want to live through what happened in 1816.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

*Scientists seeking funding and journalists seeking an audience agree: panic sells.
“Global cooling is going to kills us all!” “No, wait: global warming is going to kill us all!”
Here's the list - an amazing chronology of the last 120 years of scare-mongering on climate*



*1895* - _Geologists Think theWorld May Be Frozen Up Again_ – New York Times, February 1895
*1902* - “Disappearing Glaciers…deteriorating slowly, with a persistency that means their final annihilation…scientific fact…surely disappearing.” – *Los Angeles Times*
*1912* - _Prof. Schmidt Warns Us of an Encroaching Ice Age_ – New York Times, October 1912
*1923* - “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada” – Professor Gregory of Yale University, American representative to the Pan-Pacific Science Congress, – *Chicago Tribune*
*1923* - “The discoveries of changes in the sun’s heat and the southward advance of glaciers in recent years have given rise to conjectures of the possible advent of a new ice age” – *Washington Post*
*1924* - _MacMillan Reports Signs of New Ice Age_ – New York Times, Sept 18, 1924
*1929* - “Most geologists think the world is growing warmer, and that it will continue to get warmer” – *Los Angeles Times*, in _Is another ice age coming?_
*1932* - “If these things be true, it is evident, therefore that we must be just teetering on an ice age” – *The Atlantic* magazine, _This Cold, Cold World_
*1933* - _America in Longest Warm Spell Since 1776; Temperature Line Records a 25-Year Rise_ – New York Times, March 27th, 1933
*1933* – “…wide-spread and persistent tendency toward warmer weather…Is our climate changing?” – *Federal Weather Bureau* “Monthly Weather Review.”
*1938* - Global warming, caused by man heating the planet with carbon dioxide, “is likely to prove beneficial to mankind in several ways, besides the provision of heat and power.”– Quarterly Journal of the *Royal Meteorological Society*
*1938* - “Experts puzzle over 20 year mercury rise…Chicago is in the front rank of thousands of cities thuout the world which have been affected by a mysterious trend toward warmer climate in the last two decades” – *Chicago Tribune*
*1939* - “Gaffers who claim that winters were harder when they were boys are quite right… weather men have no doubt that the world at least for the time being is growing warmer” – *Washington Post*
*1952* - “…we have learned that the world has been getting warmer in the last half century” – New York Times, August 10th, 1962
*1954* - “…winters are getting milder, summers drier. Glaciers are receding, deserts growing” – *U.S. News and World Report*
*1954* - _Climate – the Heat May Be Off_ – *Fortune Magazine*
*1959* - “Arctic Findings in Particular Support Theory of Rising Global Temperatures” – *New York Times*
*1969* - “…the Arctic pack ice is thinning and that the ocean at the North Pole may become an open sea within a decade or two” – New York Times, February 20th, 1969
*1969* – “If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000″ — *Paul Ehrlich* (while he now predicts doom from global warming, this quote only gets honorable mention, as he was talking about his crazy fear of overpopulation)
*1970* - “…get a good grip on your long johns, cold weather haters – the worst may be yet to come…there’s no relief in sight” – *Washington Post*
*1974* - Global cooling for the past forty years – *Time Magazine*
*1974* - “Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age” –*Washington Post*
*1974* - “As for the present cooling trend a number of leading climatologists have concluded that it is very bad news indeed” – *Fortune* magazine, who won a Science Writing Award from the American Institute of Physics for its analysis of the danger
*1974* - “…the facts of the present climate change are such that the most optimistic experts would assign near certainty to major crop failure…mass deaths by starvation, and probably anarchy and violence” – *New York Times*
Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age

*1975* - _Scientists Ponder Why World’s Climate is Changing; A Major Cooling Widely Considered to Be Inevitable_ – New York Times, May 21st, 1975
*1975* - “The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind” Nigel Calder, editor, *New Scientist* magazine, in an article in International Wildlife Magazine
*1976* - “Even U.S. farms may be hit by cooling trend” – *U.S. News and World Report*
*1981* - Global Warming – “of an almost unprecedented magnitude” – New York Times
*1988* - I would like to draw three main conclusions. Number one, the earth is warmer in 1988 than at any time in the history of instrumental measurements. Number two, the global warming is now large enough that we can ascribe with a high degree of confidence a cause and effect relationship to the greenhouse effect. And number three, our computer climate simulations indicate that thegreenhouse effect is already large enough to begin to effect the probability of extreme events such as summer heat waves. – *Jim Hansen*, June 1988 testimony before Congress, see His later quote andHis superior’s objection for context
*1989* -“On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but – which means that we must include all doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climate change. To do that we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, means getting loads of media coverage. *So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have.* This “double ethical bind” we frequently find ourselves in cannot be solved by any formula. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both.” – *Stephen Schneider*, lead author of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change,*Discover* magazine, October 1989
*1990* - “We’ve got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing – in terms of economic policy and environmental policy” – *Senator Timothy Wirth*
*1993* - “Global climate change may alter temperature and rainfall patterns, many scientists fear, with uncertain consequences for agriculture.” – *U.S. News and World Report*
*1998* - No matter if the science [of global warming] is all phony . . . climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” —Christine Stewart, Canadian Minister of the Environment, *Calgary Herald*, 1998
*2001* - “Scientists no longer doubt that global warming is happening, and almost nobody questions the fact that humans are at least partly responsible.” – Time Magazine, Monday, Apr. 09, 2001
*2003* - Emphasis on extreme scenarios may have been appropriate at one time, when the public and decision-makers were relatively unaware of the global warming issue, and energy sources such as “synfuels,” shale oil and tar sands were receiving strong consideration” – *Jim Hansen*, NASA Global Warming activist, Can we defuse The Global Warming Time Bomb?, 2003
*2006* - “I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis.” — Al Gore, Grist magazine, May 2006
*2006* – “It is not a debate over whether the earth has been warming over the past century. The earth is always warming or cooling, at least a few tenths of a degree…” —*Richard S. Lindzen*, the Alfred P. Sloan *professor of meteorology* at *MIT*
*2006* – “What we have fundamentally forgotten is simple primary school science. Climate always changes. It is always…warming or cooling, it’s never stable. And if it were stable, it would actually be interesting scientifically because it would be the first time for four and a half billion years.” —*Philip Stott*, emeritus professor of bio-geography at the *University of London*
*2006* - “Since 1895, the media has alternated between global cooling and warming scares during four separate and sometimes overlapping time periods. From 1895 until the 1930’s the media peddled a coming ice age. From the late 1920’s until the 1960’s they warned of global warming. From the 1950’s until the 1970’s they warned us again of a coming ice age. This makes modern global warming the fourth estate’s fourth attempt to promote opposing climate change fears during the last 100 years.” –Senator James Inhofe, Monday, September 25, 2006
*2007*- “I gave a talk recently (on fallacies of global warming) and three members of the Canadian government, the environmental cabinet, came up afterwards and said, ‘We agree with you, but it’s not worth our jobs to say anything.’ So what’s being created is a huge industry with billions of dollars of government money and people’s jobs dependent on it.” – *Dr. Tim Ball*, Coast-to-Coast, Feb 6, 2007
*2008* – “Hansen was never muzzled even though he violated NASA’s official agency position on climate forecasting (i.e., we did not know enough to forecast climate change or mankind’s effect on it). Hansen thus embarrassed NASA by coming out with his claims of global warming in 1988 in his testimony before Congress” – *Dr. John S. Theon*, retired *Chief of the Climate Processes Research Program* at*NASA*, see above for Hansen quotes









The List Of 120 Years Of Climate Scares By Scientists | 710 WOR | Mark Simone


Get the Latest Info!




710wor.iheart.com


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

I have a question....pick me, pick me.....

What exactly is the optimum temperature for planet earth?


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## Murby (Jan 29, 2017)

Auntie said:


> Since you seem to know so much perhaps you could enlighten the uneducated masses and tell us what will happen. What we can do to prevent it from getting worse. Please use words we don't have to look up. Dumb it down for us so we can comprehend your sentences.
> 
> The American education system has let us all down. I don't want to live through what happened in 1816.


Every question you just asked has been answered ad nauseam and pre "dumbed down" for the masses and is freely available everywhere and anywhere. People either understand it, or they don't.

Our nation has a specific demographic of people who don't believe the science.
These people use a power source, created by science, to turn on a device, created by science, to connect to a network, created by science, to then log onto a website, also created by science, to then proclaim they don't believe the science.
And when they need medical attention, they run to the nearest hospital and beg the doctors to use all their science to save them.. that is, the science they don't believe.


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

Wow, what happens when a troll finally remembers his password after 3 years. 

Here I will help you out with a big word.

*coniferous*

Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
*con·i·fer*
(kŏn′ə-fər, kō′nə-)
_n._
Any of various mostly needle-leaved or scale-leaved, chiefly evergreen, cone-bearinggymnospermous trees or shrubs of the order Coniferales, such as pines, spruces, andfirs.
​[Latin cōnifer, _cone-bearing_ : cōnus, _cone_ (from Greek kōnos; see kō- in Indo-European roots) + -fer, _-fer_.]


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Robie said:


> I have a question....pick me, pick me.....
> 
> What exactly is the optimum temperature for planet earth?





Murby said:


> Every question you just asked has been answered ad nauseam and pre "dumbed down" for the masses and is freely available everywhere and anywhere. People either understand it, or they don't.
> 
> Our nation has a specific demographic of people who don't believe the science.
> These people use a power source, created by science, to turn on a device, created by science, to connect to a network, created by science, to then log onto a website, also created by science, to then proclaim they don't believe the science.
> And when they need medical attention, they run to the nearest hospital and beg the doctors to use all their science to save them.. that is, the science they don't believe.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Murby said:


> Every question you just asked has been answered ad nauseam and pre "dumbed down" for the masses and is freely available everywhere and anywhere. People either understand it, or they don't.


And all of those scientific predictions of doom and gloom came true.


*1970* - “…*get a good grip on your long johns, cold weather haters – the worst may be yet to come…there’s no relief in sigh*t” – *Washington Post*
*1974* - *Global cooling for the past forty years* – *Time Magazine*
*1974* - “*Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age*” –*Washington Post*
*1974* - “*As for the present cooling trend a number of leading climatologists have concluded that it is very bad news indeed*” – *Fortune* *magazine, who won a Science Writing Award from the American Institute of Physics for its analysis of the danger*
*1974* - “…*the facts of the present climate change are such that the most optimistic experts would assign near certainty to major crop failure…mass deaths by starvation, and probably anarchy and violence*” – *New York Times*





Murby said:


> Our nation has a specific demographic of people who don't believe the science.
> These people use a power source, created by science, to turn on a device, created by science, to connect to a network, created by science, to then log onto a website, also created by science, to then proclaim they don't believe the science.
> And when they need medical attention, they run to the nearest hospital and beg the doctors to use all their science to save them.. that is, the science they don't believe.


And what are those new-fangled devices you speak of? An unwashed people might be able to understand some of it.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Robie said:


> I have a question....pick me, pick me.....
> 
> What exactly is the optimum temperature for planet earth?


It's been a while since I've read up on this, but I think the optimum temp is higher than what we now have.

I hate saying that since I absolutely despise Summer, but I have to report what the geeks said.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> I hate saying that since I absolutely despise Summer, but I have to report what the geeks said.


Isn't that why God invented A/C????


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> Isn't that why God invented A/C????


Ain't figured out how to climate-control the flight line.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Ain't figured out how to climate-control the flight line.


Well get on the maintenance department. Isn't that what they are there for?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> Well get on the maintenance department. Isn't that what they are there for?


Are you kidding me? For years, I've been petitioning the military design sound suppressors for aircraft, but does it listen to me? No.
No longer matters. While I ask people to repeat themselves all the time, the aircraft aren't as loud as they once were.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Murby said:


> Every question you just asked has been answered ad nauseam and pre "dumbed down" for the masses and is freely available everywhere and anywhere. People either understand it, or they don't.
> 
> Our nation has a specific demographic of people who don't believe the science.
> These people use a power source, created by science, to turn on a device, created by science, to connect to a network, created by science, to then log onto a website, also created by science, to then proclaim they don't believe the science.
> And when they need medical attention, they run to the nearest hospital and beg the doctors to use all their science to save them.. that is, the science they don't believe.


Well gosh, I don't know who to believe anymore. Is it the sun, carbon dioxide, cow farts, coal, the internet, beach houses, pollution of the oceans, plastics, over population, lithium mining, factories that make solar panels and wind turbines or something else? Oh that's right it isn't the sun you said that earlier.

Oh wise one please tell me what is causing the hotter summers and colder winters. I also need to know what I can do about it. 

Science is the answer according to you. Okay, which science do you want me to believe?


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

OMD (Oh my dog)! I am loving this thread! Please don't stop!


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

I just googled 1816 and it was was I thought. Great job @Auntie


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

ItsJustMe said:


> OMD (Oh my dog)! I am loving this thread! Please don't stop!


Fantastic contribution - NOT!

CONTRIBUTE!


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

2020 Convert said:


> I just googled 1816 and it was was I thought. Great job @Auntie


I enjoy research. There are a few things tucked away in this uneducated, addled old brain of mine.


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

It 


Auntie said:


> I enjoy research. There are a few things tucked away in this uneducated, addled old brain of mine.


It was tucked away in mine, just was thinking 1830s. And I don’t how I would know it. 
must be too much Jeopardy. 😀


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Murby said:


> If you want the truth, you have two options: 1) Be lazy and just listen to the science community. This is easy, simple, reliable, and works. 2) Go to college, get a science degree and study the issue yourself. This requires hard work but pretty much assures you'll have a comprehensive understanding of the issue regardless of what anyone says.
> 
> I'm a prepper, I'm also a retired engineer, amateur astronomer, and study astrophysics. Global warming is not a hoax.


I didn't claim a hoax. You can lay that strawman right back down where you found it.

The flaw in your entire argument is glaringly obvious.
You think I/we don't pay attention to science. In fact, you also fall into that category.
I pay attention to the science that reinforces my preconceived notions, and you pay attention to that which does the same for you.
We both gleefully ignore the views of scientists who OPPOSE our ideas... only... you won't admit it, and I freely do.

Consensus is not science.
Predictions are not fact.
Science is NEVER "settled".

You've provided your background, and it didn't include "climatologist", nor any other field related to the climate of this planet.
That must mean that you are "lazy and just listen to the science community".
I am and do too. 
Surely you're aware that there is a growing number of scientists who are returning to the actual science of climate, and finding serious flaws in the original assumptions, models, and procedures that lead to the "consensus".
These folks would sure love to hear from you: The Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change
You can tell them all just how wrong they are. Be sure to emphasize that, "The vast majority of Americans, like 99%, are scientifically illiterate", so they should reconsider their own positions, no matter how well-educated and reasoned they might be.
Be sure to also look up all of the smear campaigns against them so you can feel smug in your assumption that they are wrong and you are right. After all, it's easier to discredit than to disprove, right?

Just a friendly FYI...
Since I'm "lazy and just listen to the science community", and by admission you're not part of that community, you're wasting your effort on me.
You have no credibility, nor authority on the topic. But you're exceptionally well-versed in the parroting of ideas from those you agree with and admire, and all with a generous helping of condescension on the side.

I would like to echo the sentiments of others, and thank you for gracing us with your presence once again, and providing these pearls of what you no-doubt consider wisdom.

How you make the leap from a disagreement about planetary temperature fluctuations to accusing us of not "believing the science" of our personal computers or cell phones is astounding. You're putting on a true master class in pretentiousness. I hope you sold tickets.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

@Murby. So since you’re so gung ho about the impending climate disaster, why don’t you tell us about your electric car and how you heat and cool your home without emitting any of those nasty greenhouse gasses. I’ll wait.........


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## Murby (Jan 29, 2017)

Chiefster23 said:


> @Murby. So since you’re so gung ho about the impending climate disaster, why don’t you tell us about your electric car and how you heat and cool your home without emitting any of those nasty greenhouse gasses. I’ll wait.........


Just bought an electric golf cart for very local travel purposes around the neighbors and our own property. It has a 40 mile range on a full charge. We've also upgraded some yard tools to do away with the two stroke engines and switch over to battery power. Makita makes some good stuff, and I got sick of rebuilding carburetors and having to hunt for non-ethanol gas.

I actually like the battery power stuff better.

Electric vehicles are next.. but for now.. 

Home heating and cooling is done with solar which provides 150% of our energy needs.. System can go completely off grid as well when needed. When the grid goes out, as it frequently does here in the countryside for a week at a time, we just flip a couple switches and the grid-tied solar goes into off-grid mode.... and life continues as normal. The grid tie portion of the solar has a 5 year payback, of which we have a little over a year to go. Pretty good investment. 

We also keep another 5 kW worth of system in a Faraday cage for the remote chance an EMP were to happen.

If anyone needs advice or help with their solar questions, I'm happy to answer questions. We designed and install all this ourselves.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Murby said:


> Just bought an electric golf cart for very local travel purposes around the neighbors and our own property. It has a 40 mile range on a full charge. We've also upgraded some yard tools to do away with the two stroke engines and switch over to battery power. Makita makes some good stuff, and I got sick of rebuilding carburetors and having to hunt for non-ethanol gas.
> 
> I actually like the battery power stuff better.
> 
> ...


Now _THAT_ is an impressive system!
That engineering background is serving you well in this regard.
I don't want to derail the thread, but I'd love to see an expansion discussion started on your off-grid setup, how you designed this array, and your Faraday cage storage area.

I tend to agree that "the battery power stuff" is indeed better. Lower maintenance, higher torque, low noise... all good things. Expensive... but good.
To keep _somewhat_ on-topic with the discussion at hand, I do have a question about charging your various batteries.
Will this, or an expanded, solar array allow for the charging of an electric car?
Most people are under the flawed impression that their new electric car is "better for the environment" because it doesn't produce its own emissions directly. They ignore the fact that energy is energy, and is produced _somewhere_. Most don't know how the energy that powers their outlet to charge their car is produced, and disregard the evidence that their energy consumption is driven by power plants that emit all forms of pollution into the environment, overriding their assumed "savings" of their own emissions.
Have you taken this into account in your planning for buying an electric vehicle?
Based on your previous posts, I assume you have, and would like to know how.


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## Murby (Jan 29, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> Now _THAT_ is an impressive system!
> That engineering background is serving you well in this regard.
> I don't want to derail the thread, but I'd love to see an expansion discussion started on your off-grid setup, how you designed this array, and your Faraday cage storage area.
> 
> ...


Here's a picture of the battery system. Its 25 kWh of lithium storage, which can run the house for about 30 hours in normal mode, or up to three to four days if we shut crap off when we're not using it. Ya, we waste a lot of electricity around here.. If we conserved a bit, we could stretch things much further, but since we have an abundance of power, and its free, we don't do it.

Funny thing about the battery is that it will fit in the golf cart if I wanted it too.. The voltages are all good, and it would power the cart for almost 300 miles... LOL. 

Unfortunately for the battery powered lawn tools, I live on enough property to land an airplane, and they don't make an electric zero turn lawn mower that could even come close to mowing the grass here. Guess I'm going to have to wait on that for a while. On the positive side, the mower isn't a finicky two stroke engine so it doesn't experience the same problems.

Yes, the solar array could easily charge a car, but lets apply some real numbers because "easily" is pretty subjective. On an average sunny day, our array will make about 30 (winter) to 75 (summer) kWh of energy. Our home uses a daily average of 16 kWh's in the winter (without the electric heaters), and about 20 - 22 kWh's in the summer when I'm working in the shop using the plasma cutter, welder, air compressor, etc. 
Our basic needs are easily met, in fact, we have so much extra juice we tend to run the air conditioners and electric heaters to a higher comfort range. And even under these conditions, we are capable of running the freeze dryer machine and still have power to spare. The freeze dryer uses as much energy in 24 hours as the entire rest of the house, which is why freeze dried food is so expensive, its an energy intensive process. As we are getting maxed out on our food stores, the freeze dryer is about to be shut down permanently soon enough.

If I were to continue as normal, (waste + freeze dryer + high comfort range) we could charge a single electric vehicle for daily driving purposes of about 80 miles per day. but I don't think we could charge two of them and still enjoy the ability to waste power like we do.. maybe, but it would be tight... As I am retired and don't drive much, this isn't a problem. 

The average electric vehicle uses about 1 kWh of energy for every 3 miles. If one were to drive their Chevy Bolt (66 kWh battery) to its max 230+ mile range every day, then no, we wouldn't be able to keep up with that. We sure don't need that kind of range, I think very few people do.

That said, if I ever needed more energy, our two inverters have enough spare capacity to add another 3 kW of solar array to the system, which would equate to an extra 20 kWh of daily production. It would just be a matter of mounting them. 

Electric vs Gas cars: 
Even if your electricity was coming from an OLD coal fired power plant, an electric car would still save the world on a great deal of CO2 emissions as even the old coal power plant is far more efficient than an internal combustion engine. Its not even a remotely close call. Taking into account electrical transmission line losses, charging losses, and battery losses, the difference still isn't even close to being in the same ball park. 

Solar is a good investment. My wife has a degree in economics and finance and ran our investment through several models and none of them even came close to the payback of solar. Of course, the battery part of it is a luxury and prepper item so it doesn't really count... But the grid tied part is a far better investment than even a reasonably good stock pick, mutual fund, 401k, or pretty much any other investment.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Good points Kauboy. Lithium mining is much more complex than just extracting it from the ground.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

@Murby, that's an awesome battery!
I hope you never have to actually load that into your golf cart. Depending on the weight, the poor thing might not make it over a mole hill, haha.

As @Auntie pointed out, the creation of the electric car's components, that differ from those of a conventional vehicle, add a significant load to the emissions count.
Then it becomes a matter of trying to offset that load via usage and charging methods.
As the tech improves, this will become less and less of an issue. It's already running on par, with EVs doing slightly better over their lifetime (especially with the aftermarket use of used batteries increasing, thus elongating the useful lifespan of the heaviest CO2 emission generators) when compared to ICEVs.
At present, the difference is not anywhere near "world saving", but we are getting better, and I have hope it will become the norm without impacting daily life too much. You might not need to go 200+ miles a day, but you're also not the norm.
We need better tech before this becomes an acceptable solution for all areas of transportation. (long haul freight comes to mind)

I'm optimistic, but I need to see it work before I'm willing to see our society pressured to move that way.
We MUST find a way to break away from making everything political.
That probably starts when we stop accusing each other of "wanting to kill the planet because of greed" or "stomping on my liberty for the sake of your hippy fantasy".
Until then, we can expect contention and deep-rooted disagreement.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

After watching "The Planet of the Humans" documentary (produced by an environmentalist and tree hugger btw)....all this green energy is worse in the long-run for the planet than just using carbon-based fuels.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Murby said:


> With respect, the argument "the environment has changed before and therefor we'll be fine" is dead wrong. Its disturbingly and utterly wrong. In fact, its so wrong that its not even an argument as I suspect it's oil company propaganda pushed for public consumption.
> 
> And as with most BS propaganda, it needs to contain an element of truth in order to pass the smell test for those who don't know any better... So ya, the environment has changed before, but such changes take place over tens of thousands and millions of years... this gives the various lifeforms time to adapt to the environment. Problem is, humans are doing it in a time span of just a couple hundred years.
> 
> ...


HA! That's funny stuff right there! 

Self Righteous, Foolish, Condescending, Sheeple-ness, and multiple other descriptive words to express my view of your naive puppy love for another wealth distribution/taxation/confiscation government scam!

Good Lord, Son, how do you make it through the day without walking into a bus?

Your friend, 

Slippy!


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Denton said:


> Fantastic contribution - NOT!
> 
> CONTRIBUTE!


Nothing I would have to contribute would be nearly as good as what others have. This is seriously a real learning experience. All I have to contribute is my sincerest thank you.


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## Black 5 (Apr 6, 2020)

I love it when some rich liberal with lots of letters behind his name starts telling all of us po' folk how we should change and be more progressive not only in our voting, but general way of life.
Nice solar panels. Glad you can afford a golf cart to toodle around the neighborhood and socialize with the other landed gentry.

Don't let other's fascination with your shiny crap let your head swell any more.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Black 5 you seem familiar. Did you use to use different name?


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## Black 5 (Apr 6, 2020)

Yep. I couldn't get back in after a paradigm shift of some sort, and I told Denton I had used a different name to get in. Since the system didn't catch the doubled IP, I figured I had been totally lost and just stayed with Black 5.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Willing to share who you used to be or do I get to try to figure it out? I do love puzzles.


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