# Is it cheating....shouldn't we cheat?



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Ok, someone asks the question often. "If" you could only have one rifle, one handgun or even just two. We've all seen the post. 

So if someone asks about one hand gun I reply a 1911 in 9mm and my Kimber 22 conversion kit. 

So if someone asks about one rifle I replay with my AR 15 and cmmg 22 conversion kit. 

This answer seems to irritate some that suggest any firearm with a conversion kit to 22LR is somehow not one firearm....that it's cheating. Well I was thinking about my LE days and recall learning and teaching that when fighting for our lives you cheat if you have too....there is no such thing as a need for a fair fight when your life or that of your family is on the line. I figure it's not cheating to incl a conversion kit, but if it is so what.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

With the additional weight of the two conversion kits wouldn't you be better off to just add a 10/22 to your mix?


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

No I doubt if it's cheating. No more so than being able to fire 38 Special, 357 magnum, 38 long colt and 38 hort colts in your 357 revolver.

However some conversions just don't make the grade.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

All's fair, love and war! jmo.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I don't think that is cheating you are just using the versatility of the weapon.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

More weapons is not cheating it is enjoying life


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I believe that there is a saying that if your in a fair fight your tactics suck.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I used to have a convertible Thompson Contender which would swap itself from .357 Mag to whatever your heart desired down to .22 rim fires. Just have to swing another barrel in there and flippy the switch on the hammer over to .22. I always wanted one in 7mm 08. Only wound up with the extra .22 barrel. It shot great. Won me a turkey shoot one time..lol.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

A conversion kit is not a firearm and the availability of conversion kits is an advantage of that choice of firearm. I have a Glock 22 (.40) which also has barrels for 9mm, and .357 SIG and a conversion kit for .22. That strikes me as pretty handy.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Conversion kits only expand the ability of the firearm.
A Glock 19 with a Advantage Arms 22 conversion make perfect sense, -- and its cool!


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

The law says that the .22 unit is not a gun, so how is it "cheating", ? Besides, this is life or death. If I'm AROUND to be called a 'cheater" after the gunfight, tough loss for the other guy.


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

how do you figure that a 5 lb 1022 is less weight than a 3/4 lb conversion unit, for the AR15, for example? You don't change the upper receivers, just the bolt-chamber insert, and the magazine. Also, the sights, safety, general handling, bolt release, etc, of the 1022 are completely different from those of the AR, so your 1022 practice is doing you very little good towards building skill with the AR. However, using the 11.5" barreled AR, the 7.5" sound suppressor makes the 223 just as "tame" to use as the .22 unit (without the "can" being in place on the rifle) So, for sub 100m snap shooting practice, you get to save 30c per shot. That pays for the $200 conversion unit in just one weekend of fun.


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

yes, having local shops make the can (with about a day of your own labor) costs $100. then there's $200 each for the SBR stamp and the tax on the suppressor. So it takes another weekend of fun to pay for those, and another one to pay for the difference between the AR and the 1022. 3 weekends of shootiing and you've got about 10x the potential that the 1022 will ever have.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Actually having/using weapons may end up being a life or death matter (which makes rules beyond serious moral concerns stupid). Picking one for an internet conversation is not. Since the point of such posts is to get opinions on 'best'...yeah, kinda cheating to include a conversion kit, but in itself it makes a valuable point.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

This question is usually asked in relation to registration & legal limitations of how many you can own. No way in hell am I giving any up and there will be no guilt trip on this end. With well over 300 million guns in private hands in the U.S. it would be nearly impossible to find them all. For bugging, I'm in agreement with HH, just take a 22 rifle with you in addition to your major caliber. While you could do it if you truly had to, constantly breaking down your firearm to install/uninstall the conversion kit would be a pain and in the event of the arrival of urgency, possibly dangerous.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Spice said:


> Actually having/using weapons may end up being a life or death matter (which makes rules beyond serious moral concerns stupid). Picking one for an internet conversation is not. Since the point of such posts is to get opinions on 'best'...yeah, kinda cheating to include a conversion kit, but in itself it makes a valuable point.


As I meant to indicate, if you have two competitive firearms, one has a conversion available and the other does not, I would consider that a plus for the one with the conversion. If the firearms are different in other ways it may not be the most compelling difference, but it is an advantage.

In NJ we also have an absurd set of gun laws which many of you are tired of hearing about. However, one of those is the silly Pistol Purchase Permit and another is the One Gun a Month nonsense, both of which make buying another handgun a slow difficult process. Being able to purchase a conversion kit in this environment is a huge plus. It may not seem so compelling elsewhere, but it certainly is here.

I would consider a conversion kit to be a "feature" that you can use in your decision making, like a nicer trigger, or better sights, or whatever compels you to like one firearm over another.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

I dread the day that someone invents a weapon that does it all. Then what excuse will I have to hoard firearms? How will I justify my shopping?


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

you'll THINK pita, all right, when you have to lug a survival pack, with its 30 lbs of gear, water, food, etc, and TWO longarms, their ammo, scopes, etc, and a handgun or two. You'll jettison one of those longarms the first time you're shot-at. Urgency? You're worried about urgency, while having a noisy gun? or having one that offers little repeat hit speed? That noise is what's likely to create the urgency. Have you got luminous sight inserts? It's dark half of the time, you know. Will your longarm conceal in your pack? That could easily be necessary and it's necessary NOW if you don't have an attached garage, or if you ride a bike, etc. Letting others see your (cased) longarm is just asking to have your guns stolen, or asking for trouble with the cops, in some areas.


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

check out the prices of trigger jobs, luminous inserts, take-down conversions, folding stocks, scopes, and silencers. Now multiply all that by two, for no reason at all. Anything that you do to the 223 auto in the way of modification, is also, automatically done to the .22 unit. Thus, going with the .22 conversion can easily save you $1000(as vs having a separate .22lr rifle).


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

Ciener's .22 units, in AR's, group 1-2" at 50 yds, and if the one you get is not reliable, any decent smith can fix it in an hour. Best to not do biz directly with Jon, tho, cause he's an a hole. get your .22 unit from Dillon, Brownell's, Wideners, Midway, Cabela's, etc, so that you'll have somebody who'll fix it if it aint right. If you'll just fire a couple of 223 rds thru it, for every 200 rds of .22lr, you'll have no problems with fouling of the gas system. There's a lot of lies all over the net about .22 conversion units. Youtube is full of videos showing that they work just fine.

I do not know if the .22 unit works with 1 in 7" rifling, but it does fine with 1 in 9" or 1 in 12" rifling twist. AR-15.com is bound to have good info about the 1 in 7" rifling.


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

An AR takes down into 2 halves in 5 seconds, to be concealed in a pack, and reassembles to fire in 10 seconds. you can switch upper receiver groups in the same time, going from a 10" barreled "submachinegun" format to a 26" barrel that's fully capable of winning rifle matches at 1/2 mile of range. You can buy an AR in the mail, with nobody knowing about it, if you buy a parts kit and an "80% finished" stripped AR lower receiver, from Ares Armor, and do the simple, remaining machining yourself. No license is required to do so, and you need not put a serial number on the gun, altho I would do so, personally, just to keep away the jerks. Likewise, I'd bake on some gun-kote, etc, and not leave the receiver as "raw" looking aluminum. Why ask for trouble?


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## stillacitizen2 (Jan 30, 2015)

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

NOthing about what Big Bro does to us is fair, so we should take every possible advantage regarding anything that Big Bro doesn't like, specifically relating to guns.


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