# I was wrong on solar



## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

So I saw an article the other day about this billion dollar boondoggle in Nevada using the sun to create electricity. The article said it was going to feed 75,000 homes power. I thought that was stupid. A billion dollars for 75,000 homes? What were they smoking.

Well mathematically that's not all bad.

$1,000,000,000 / 75,000 = $13,333 per home

I'd pay $13,333 to have the power I need for 25 years. Thats not all bad. I think, if I read about this one right, they did it with private money too not tax dollars. Thats even better. Still I wonder what kind of break they got from uncle sammy?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Maybe I'm looking at another solar plant, but the one I read about was $2.2 billion for 140,000 homes. It also has natural gas fired boilers for when the sun doesn't shine. Unfortunately they didn't take into account that desert dust and sand would mess with the mirrors that reflect the sun to the boiler on the tower. Here's a chunk of what I read from:
World's largest solar power plant opens in Nevada desert | cleveland.com
*"According to U.S. Energy Information Administration data, the cost of building and operating a new solar thermal power plant over its lifetime is greater than generating natural gas, coal or nuclear power. It costs a conventional coal plant $100, on average, to produce a megawatt-hour of power, but that figure is $261 for solar thermal power, according to 2011 estimates. The figures do not account for incentives such as state or federal tax credits that can impact the cost."
*


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

paraquack said:


> Maybe I'm looking at another solar plant, but the one I read about was $2.2 billion for 140,000 homes. It also has natural gas fired boilers for when the sun doesn't shine. Unfortunately they didn't take into account that desert dust and sand would mess with the mirrors that reflect the sun to the boiler on the tower. Here's a chunk of what I read from:
> World's largest solar power plant opens in Nevada desert | cleveland.com
> *"According to U.S. Energy Information Administration data, the cost of building and operating a new solar thermal power plant over its lifetime is greater than generating natural gas, coal or nuclear power. It costs a conventional coal plant $100, on average, to produce a megawatt-hour of power, but that figure is $261 for solar thermal power, according to 2011 estimates. The figures do not account for incentives such as state or federal tax credits that can impact the cost."
> *


The one you reference was noted in the same article I saw, but a different plant. The cost of this one was expected to be $135 MW which is still more then Coal but that's a price point I can live with if were replacing arab oil and enjoying clean air.

World?s First 24/7 Solar Power Plant Powers 75,000 Homes


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

I've driven past that monstrosity a couple times. If the sun is at a certain angle (closer to dusk) it blinds drivers on I-15. The funniest part, that I'm sure wasn't in the article, is they built it on a bird sanctuary. Many of the birds are attempting to land on the mirrors or fly over them too closely and are being eviscerated from the heat coming off of them.

Sent from Tapatalk (aka Uranus)


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> I've driven past that monstrosity a couple times. If the sun is at a certain angle (closer to dusk) it blinds drivers on I-15. The funniest part, that I'm sure wasn't in the article, is they built it on a bird sanctuary. Many of the birds are attempting to land on the mirrors or fly over them too closely and are being eviscerated from the heat coming off of them.
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk (aka Uranus)


I had heard about the birds getting fried, they just fall out of the sky.

In many ways solar is a great choice for energy but only the fact that the government subsides solar in many ways is it close to affordable. Without government support solar isn't a financially viable option in my opinion, maybe someday but not yet. That's why I built my solar setup while the government was paying for 30% of my system using tax credits.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

stowlin said:


> So I saw an article the other day about this billion dollar boondoggle in Nevada using the sun to create electricity. The article said it was going to feed 75,000 homes power. I thought that was stupid. A billion dollars for 75,000 homes? What were they smoking.
> 
> Well mathematically that's not all bad.
> 
> ...


remember they have to make money and that is the start cost.. think about upgrades, repairs, labor, management, etc...............


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

You guys hear about the Aria hotel pool in Vegas ?

When it was first built for a few years at certain times of the day the sun would reflect and focus off a neighboring building...... 

If in the right location sunbathers bathing suits and hair could catch on fire !!!!


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Actually it wasn't the Aria, it was the Vdara hotel that's across from the Aria. All located in City Center, the largest private project in the United States at 9+ billion dollars invested and over 75 acres on the Vegas Strip.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I remember years ago someone left a jar of water in the back dash of a car and the sun shining through it set the car on fire.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I'm not sure why I reply in most cases the next cheeky remark sends my well though out response into obscurity.

That being said the cost of solar is reasonable on a personal level but doesn't make sense on a commercial level.

So let me explain.

If you do solar as a utility then there are all the costs involved to deliver that energy to you, wages (biggest cost), distribution (wires and the guys that put them back up after a storm) and administrative costs.

When you put a solar array on your roof you cut all of that out, so the $12K it takes to put a really decent solar system on a house is free of all the monetary drags (as mentioned above) you would expect.

My current solar system which is in the 12K range returns to me 5% a year ROI. Way better than the .1% the bank is giving me on the same money in the bank and I'm sure most investments in the stock market would hump you leg for a chance at that type of return.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

stowlin said:


> The one you reference was noted in the same article I saw, but a different plant. The cost of this one was expected to be $135 MW which is still more then Coal but that's a price point I can live with if were replacing arab oil and enjoying clean air.
> 
> World?s First 24/7 Solar Power Plant Powers 75,000 Homes


 We do not use mideast oil . Repeat we do not get our oil from the middle east Common myth spread by liberals. Screaming it's bout the oil.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> We do not use mideast oil . Repeat we do not get our oil from the middle east Common myth spread by liberals. Screaming it's bout the oil.


Actually as I understand it we do import some oil from the Middle East but we ship some of our oil to Europe. Crazy world out there.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

John Galt said:


> Actually as I understand it we do import some oil from the Middle East but we ship some of our oil to Europe. Crazy world out there.


It's like a big shell game isn't it ? Lol ! Follow the money.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

To expensive to ship Middle east oil here . It has always been a lie of the liberals .
US gets it's Oil form US, Mexico, Canada , Venezuela Less than 10% of petroleum products are middle east based. 
But we can go back to screaming Bush stole the oil BS it plays well. Not our oil it is the companies that pump and refine it. They sell it on a world market.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

Smitty901 said:


> We do not use mideast oil . Repeat we do not get our oil from the middle east Common myth spread by liberals. Screaming it's bout the oil.


Where The US Got Its Oil in 2013 | OilPrice.com

According to this in 2013 we got over 25% from the middle east. Less then a decade ago for sure, but still sizable sum.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm definitely going to look into a whole house solar and/or wind electrical supply operation.

Tired of the bills, . . . and tired of having to depend on someone else.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> I'm definitely going to look into a whole house solar and/or wind electrical supply operation.
> 
> Tired of the bills, . . . and tired of having to depend on someone else.
> 
> ...


Using solar and wind is like paying your power bill years in advance which means hefty up front costs. But now that the toll is paid I love the fact that my electric bill rarely exceeds $32 a month (I've still got the clothes dryer, oven, and one outdoor outlet on the grid). But solar isn't for everyone, if you look at it as a hobby it's great but you do have to maintain your power system occasionally for 20+ years.


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