# One for our resident cop hater



## slewfoot

Mom's Facebook post might make you reconsider stereotypes about the police
Not all are bad.


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## Slippy

Good story and I'd venture to say that thousands of cops across the country do great things and good deeds everyday. It would be nice to hear more of these good stories about LE but the mainstream media won't.

The complicit socialist evil media more often than not, decides to print lies to promote an agenda and sell news so incidents are blown out of proportion and the agitators and race baiters start these "brushfires" of lies. 

Honest Law Abiding citizens have nothing to fear from LE the vast majority of the time.


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## PatriotFlamethrower

C'mon now. Don't you all know that ALL cops in the United States are like the cops in New York and New Jersey?


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## SOCOM42

patriotflamethrower said:


> c'mon now. Don't you all know that all cops in the united states are like the cops in new york and new jersey?


right! Ask diver.
He has the lowdown on them all.


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## Denton

As I have shared before, I was arrested off of my own property by cops who were not invited onto my property by me. They followed a friend onto my property over a traffic code violation. No lights were turned on, no official pursuit. 
The charge was tossed, of course. Afterward, I went to the cop shop to have a sit-down with the asst head cop. Every reason imaginable was thrown at me. All of them good reasons except every one was no excuse for violating the constitution. It doesn't matter that pulling into a driveway is a common tactic, for example. That reason is still no excuse.

Now, the two cops were bad cops because they were bad guys... period, hands down. The asst. chief was the typical cop who needed more training in the rights of the citizens, but he was not a bad cop because he was not a bad guy. He was simply ignorant.

Do you get what I am saying? A man isn't bad just because he is a cop, neither is he good because of it. Good guys who are cops violate people's rights each and every single day. They do it out of ignorance. On the other hand, there are bad guys who are cops, and they enjoy their power and their "authority" and love to wield it over their fellow citizens. No amount of education in the world will change them.

Why is it that some people try and convince us that all are bad, while others have to point out that there are good guys, true heroes, who wear the uniform? Aren't we all smart enough to understand human nature?


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## SARGE7402

*Aren't we all smart enough to understand human nature?*

Ah. Doesn't seem like a lot of folks have the smarts necessary.


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## PaulS

Denton,
You are asking for a display of common sense... It's not as common as it once was.


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## bigwheel

Yep..cops can pursue traffic law violators onto private property. Been that way since Moby Dick was still just a Minner.


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## PaulS

They have to be in an active pursuit - if they are just following a car, they have no power to follow that car onto private property.


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## Diver

Denton said:


> As I have shared before, I was arrested off of my own property by cops who were not invited onto my property by me. They followed a friend onto my property over a traffic code violation. No lights were turned on, no official pursuit.
> The charge was tossed, of course. Afterward, I went to the cop shop to have a sit-down with the asst head cop. Every reason imaginable was thrown at me. All of them good reasons except every one was no excuse for violating the constitution. It doesn't matter that pulling into a driveway is a common tactic, for example. That reason is still no excuse.
> 
> Now, the two cops were bad cops because they were bad guys... period, hands down. The asst. chief was the typical cop who needed more training in the rights of the citizens, but he was not a bad cop because he was not a bad guy. He was simply ignorant.
> 
> Do you get what I am saying? A man isn't bad just because he is a cop, neither is he good because of it. Good guys who are cops violate people's rights each and every single day. They do it out of ignorance. On the other hand, there are bad guys who are cops, and they enjoy their power and their "authority" and love to wield it over their fellow citizens. No amount of education in the world will change them.
> 
> Why is it that some people try and convince us that all are bad, while others have to point out that there are good guys, true heroes, who wear the uniform? Aren't we all smart enough to understand human nature?


That's well put. For the record, I don't believe I have said that all cops are bad cops. Most of them are just incompetent, like the guy you had the sit down with.

What I have also said is that since NJS gun laws are unconstitutional, one cannot be a good cop in NJ. You either violates the Bill of Rights or don't enforce NJ law. Either answer is a fail.


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## Mad Trapper

Love my local cops. Went to school with them. Newer on the force, and State Nazis, SPOOKS, and GOBBERMENT, are. suspect, we cannot TRUST. EARN THAT!!!!


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## James m

The police deal with a lot of bad people day after day and that probably shapes a lot of their personalities. That said not everyone you deal with is a rapist or a murderer, and don't need to be treated like one.


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## SARGE7402

Actually if your believe NOW there is no such thing as consensual sex. It's all rape


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## James m

I don't understand. I can't have sex with my wife, because its rape?


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## 6811

Diver said:


> That's well put. For the record, I don't believe I have said that all cops are bad cops. Most of them are just incompetent, like the guy you had the sit down with.
> 
> What I have also said is that since NJS gun laws are unconstitutional, one cannot be a good cop in NJ. You either violates the Bill of Rights or don't enforce NJ law. Either answer is a fail.


So if most cops are incompetent, then most inmates are innocent and should be released.


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## tango

My stepson was a local police officer.
One day we went to lunch and a waitress (not ours) came to the table to thank him for what he did to get her brother out of wanting to become a gang member, and back into school.
Really made me proud.


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## SARGE7402

6811 said:


> So if most cops are incompetent, then most inmates are innocent and should be released.


You're new so I'll try and give you a slight insight into what makes D tick. First some years ago he had a run in with the Police and a Psycho. Claims Psycho beat him up and the cop with the Psycho broke into his home. Second his whine about the 2nd Amendment deals with NJ's laws on carrying a handgun in public. Seems that D can't get a CCW. Third he was stopped and searched at Grand Central or Penn Station and had his back pack randomly searched. His belief is that both are violations of the US Constitution and believes any cop worth his salt should not enforce these laws. Mind you that neither have had a constitutionality case filed on them that has gone to the SCOTUS. So these cops that enforce these laws are bad or incompetent.

How's that Drivel. Did I hit all the high points.


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## Diver

Mad Trapper said:


> Love my local cops. Went to school with them. Newer on the force, and State Nazis, SPOOKS, and GOBBERMENT, are. suspect, we cannot TRUST. EARN THAT!!!!


While everyone likes to misinterpret what I say as hating cops, what I have repeatedly said is I don't trust cops. Since I went to school in another state there is no one around here I went to school with.


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## 6811

SARGE7402 said:


> You're new so I'll try and give you a slight insight into what makes D tick. First some years ago he had a run in with the Police and a Psycho. Claims Psycho beat him up and the cop with the Psycho broke into his home. Second his whine about the 2nd Amendment deals with NJ's laws on carrying a handgun in public. Seems that D can't get a CCW. Third he was stopped and searched at Grand Central or Penn Station and had his back pack randomly searched. His belief is that both are violations of the US Constitution and believes any cop worth his salt should not enforce these laws. Mind you that neither have had a constitutionality case filed on them that has gone to the SCOTUS. So these cops that enforce these laws are bad or incompetent.
> 
> How's that Drivel. Did I hit all the high points.


So a psycho assault's him, then a cop breaks in his house? Man, this is why I hate going to NJ.

But really, why would a cop break in his home? Is it a burglary or the cop was there because of the assault. And when things did not go in his favor, the issue instantly became a break in by the police. You know I hear that happening a lot. I think its a trend these days, blame a cop for anything and everything you can think of. Also, People love to film cops, but when cops film people in public they bitch about it.


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## Diver

6811 said:


> So if most cops are incompetent, then most inmates are innocent and should be released.


That is a possibility:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...n-wrongly-imprisoned-murder-article-1.2230087

I see articles like this one from today's paper about once a week.

Then there is the recent scandal with the FBI forensics lab, the fact we have the highest incarceration rate in the developed world, . . .


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## Diver

SARGE7402 said:


> You're new so I'll try and give you a slight insight into what makes D tick. First some years ago he had a run in with the Police and a Psycho. Claims Psycho beat him up and the cop with the Psycho broke into his home. Second his whine about the 2nd Amendment deals with NJ's laws on carrying a handgun in public. Seems that D can't get a CCW. Third he was stopped and searched at Grand Central or Penn Station and had his back pack randomly searched. His belief is that both are violations of the US Constitution and believes any cop worth his salt should not enforce these laws. Mind you that neither have had a constitutionality case filed on them that has gone to the SCOTUS. So these cops that enforce these laws are bad or incompetent.
> 
> How's that Drivel. Did I hit all the high points.


Hitting them and hitting them accurately are two different things. a) you've got the description of the incident wrong. b) here is the latest case NJ has had ignored by SCOTUS. We have cases appealed to SCOTUS all the time.

Drake v. Jerejian : SCOTUSblog

The 4th amendment is a topic I am concerned about including not only stuff going on in NY, but also TSA, 80,000 SWAT raids a year, ad nauseam.

BTW: That "Drivel" stuff is an inciter. You really need to try something new.


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## 6811

Diver said:


> That is a possibility:
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...n-wrongly-imprisoned-murder-article-1.2230087
> 
> I see articles like this one from today's paper about once a week.
> 
> Then there is the recent scandal with the FBI forensics lab, the fact we have the highest incarceration rate in the developed world, . . .


So we take news articles as gospel now? Do you know that All news reports have inaccuracies in it. For example, in Baltimore a 21 year old mother killed her daughter a year ago. News said that it was a 15 month long investigation when in reality the detective solved the case in less than 3 weeks. During the Baltimore riots, CNN would only show Freddy Grey being picked up from the ground while he was pretending to drag his legs. CNN would not show him standing up, ducking down and stepping in the wagon. I got you figured out diver, you are no different than those anti police protesters who has no real facts, Just bogus information and a lot of hate.


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## Maine-Marine

I am not scared of police - I am cautious - they have the ability to arrest me and even if it is a bad arrest I still go to jail for x amount of time...(Hours - days)

I am not happy with the SHOW US YOUR ID mentality of some police officers..but after I tell them that I do not have to show ID unless they suspect me of a crime and have some responsible suspicion .. I will show them my ID.. why - because, I will pick and choose my battles and I have 3 kids under 7 in my house..and come SHTF - I want to be on their good side until - they no longer are maintaining proper and lawful order

I am not going to PUSH the limits until it is required...


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## Diver

6811 said:


> So we take news articles as gospel now? Do you know that All news reports have inaccuracies in it. For example, in Baltimore a 21 year old mother killed her daughter a year ago. News said that it was a 15 month long investigation when in reality the detective solved the case in less than 3 weeks. During the Baltimore riots, CNN would only show Freddy Grey being picked up from the ground while he was pretending to drag his legs. CNN would not show him standing up, ducking down and stepping in the wagon. I got you figured out diver, you are no different than those anti police protesters who has no real facts, Just bogus information and a lot of hate.


You've been here for a couple weeks and have me figured out?


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## SARGE7402

Diver said:


> You've been here for a couple weeks and have me figured out?


Doesn't take long to figure out that you have issues.

Course I think his pistol envy post was spot on. My guess i'ts something like penis envy for girls.

Oh and just so you know it also includes retired cops.


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## hardcore

i have worked along side of police for 25 years. i always liked action, so i tended to be station on the "northside of the tracks" low income high rate of trash. coming only from my own eyes...i can see where minority people say "#### the police!" the cops(not all) ive seen and worked with trampled rights and treated them unfair. so what ive learned is to keep my mouth shut and obey the fuzz ....for now


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## pheniox17

SARGE7402 said:


> Doesn't take long to figure out that you have issues.
> 
> Course I think his pistol envy post was spot on. My guess i'ts something like penis envy for girls.
> 
> Oh and just so you know it also includes retired cops.


Could be worse.. Remember your mate the resister


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## dsdmmat

Hmmm I guess this site has really gone down the tubes, when threads are created just to troll for a response. For the record I do not like cops either, never have, never will. I try to avoid all interaction with any type, flavor, and shade of law enforcement personnel. I think there are too many of them and too many unconstitutional laws that many will blindly enforce. 

Anyway that is my 2 cents.


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## Harry Cline

hardcore said:


> what ive learned is to keep my mouth shut and obey the fuzz ....for now




I think I understand where you are coming from, in the mean time don't ever feel like you are weak or coping out. Your smart and you understand that out on the street the cop who confronts you literally has your life in their hands and can either ruin your day, week, month or life. The problem with the youth today in the inner cities is with 'authority'. And it's become generational. And if that authority is coming from White to Black some have a real problem with it. And of course the media runs with it. They are as out of touch with the real world out here as the average politician is. They feed the racism argument when all you have to do is keep your mouth shut answer with a Yes or a No.

But the first time a White cop stops a Black person right away that 'inferiority complex' that has now been hardwired into their DNA's gets triggered. Most have that victim mentality. And when you dig into their backgrounds they are all 'criminals'. But then the 'progressive Liberals' want to give them a pass because they want White to feel guilty because of the past and now the poverty.

And yet had most Blacks had better upbringings and used affirmative action to their benefit they would have benefited. But some inner city Blacks are now realizing how they got screwed by the race pimps like Sharpton and all those who made it out of the ghettos and have never return to help out. 
When the day comes that the tax-payers a.k.a. the White person stops paying their rent and for their food it will be very interesting then. My gut says we will not see the rich dummy basketball or football players and the mega rich rap stars stepping up to cover that.

Now here's what angers me, those of us who have played by the rules all of our lives but because of our education level and or economic standing who have been trapped in poverty and having to live among and around the dregs of society get treated like scum ourselves.  You talk about biting your tongue. And it's because some of us know, the ghetto rats actually believe they are worthy of respect cause they earn an honest living by selling dope and whores.

I haven't had a Black friend since 1980, and don't care if I ever do again. Cause the Blacks today are far removed from the ones I came up with. Like White Americans they where Black Americans. Now they don't want to be part of America, they want to be African American, but have the White person pay for it all.

But make no mistake the White trash I live around now are no better and the Hispanic thugs I once lived around are no better either. I hope in my next life I come back with a little more money than my handsome looks and my debonair personality. Imagine being a cop working around all this s--t and then trying to leave it on the street so that you don't drag it home. There are reasons why police officers have one of the highest rates of divorce as well as suicide. You could not pay me enough to work around these malcontents it's bad enough I have to live among and around them. (even the pets here are not worth a damn)


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## Diver

SARGE7402 said:


> Doesn't take long to figure out that you have issues.
> 
> Course I think his pistol envy post was spot on. My guess i'ts something like penis envy for girls.
> 
> Oh and just so you know it also includes retired cops.


So you don't believe in the 2nd amendment either?

BTW: I know quite a few retired cops through the local range. Their view on current cops is they are lousy shots because they won't practice unless the get paid for the time spent at the range (union thing I guess) and that the current cops don't know the law.

In other words, even the retired cops think the active NJ cops are incompetent.

Oh yeah, that whole post is a bunch of inciters. 6811, if you read Sarge's post which is one long rant of insults and demeaning drivel (pun deliberate) you'll be able to identify multiple inciters. That will help you understand the term, whether you understand me or not.


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## Diver

hardcore said:


> i have worked along side of police for 25 years. i always liked action, so i tended to be station on the "northside of the tracks" low income high rate of trash. coming only from my own eyes...i can see where minority people say "fcuk the police!" the cops(not all) ive seen and worked with trampled rights and treated them unfair. so what ive learned is to keep my mouth shut and obey the fuzz ....for now


You mean you don't worship the heroes in their own minds?


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## pheniox17

Harry Cline said:


> I think I understand where you are coming from, in the mean time don't ever feel like you are weak or coping out. Your smart and you understand that out on the street the cop who confronts you literally has your life in their hands and can either ruin your day, week, month or life. The problem with the youth today in the inner cities is with 'authority'. And it's become generational. And if that authority is coming from White to Black some have a real problem with it. And of course the media runs with it. They are as out of touch with the real world out here as the average politician is. They feed the racism argument when all you have to do is keep your mouth shut answer with a Yes or a No.
> 
> But the first time a White cop stops a Black person right away that 'inferiority complex' that has now been hardwired into their DNA's gets triggered. Most have that victim mentality. And when you dig into their backgrounds they are all 'criminals'. But then the 'progressive Liberals' want to give them a pass because they want White to feel guilty because of the past and now the poverty.
> 
> And yet had most Blacks had better upbringings and used affirmative action to their benefit they would have benefited. But some inner city Blacks are now realizing how they got screwed by the race pimps like Sharpton and all those who made it out of the ghettos and have never return to help out.
> When the day comes that the tax-payers a.k.a. the White person stops paying their rent and for their food it will be very interesting then. My gut says we will not see the rich dummy basketball or football players stepping up to cover that.
> 
> Now here's what angers me, those of us who have played by the rules all of our lives but because of our education level and or economic standing who have been trapped in poverty and having to live among and around the dregs of society get treated like scum ourselves. You talk about biting your tongue. And it's because some of us know, the ghetto rats actually believe they are worthy of respect cause they earn an honest living by selling dope and whores.
> 
> I haven't had a Black friend since 1980, and don't care if I ever do again. Cause the Blacks today are far removed from the ones I came up with. Like White Americans they where Black Americans. Now they don't want to be part of America, they want to be African American, but have the White person pay for it all.
> 
> But make no mistake the White trash I live around now are no better and the Hispanic thugs I once lived around are no better either. I hope in my next life I come back with a little more money than my handsome looks and my debonair personality. Imagine being a cop working around all this s--t and then trying to leave it on the street so that you don't drag it home. There are reasons why police officers have one of the highest rates of divorce as well as suicide. You could not pay me enough to work around these malcontents it's bad enough I have to live among and around them. (even the pets here are not worth a damn)


I don't know about the rest of you old timers.... But I'm stating to like this guy... Or girl... Third post.... Great


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## Disturbed12404

I was just thinking that. All 3 of his posts thus far have been really interesting reads. Although I'm not a fan of the enlarged text.... only because switching back to the smaller comments takes a second to adjust. But man. Right on.


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## 6811

Diver said:


> So you don't believe in the 2nd amendment either?
> 
> BTW: I know quite a few retired cops through the local range. Their view on current cops is they are lousy shots because they won't practice unless the get paid for the time spent at the range (union thing I guess) and that the current cops don't know the law.
> 
> In other words, even the retired cops think the active NJ cops are incompetent.
> 
> Oh yeah, that whole post is a bunch of inciters. 6811, if you read Sarge's post which is one long rant of insults and demeaning drivel (pun deliberate) you'll be able to identify multiple inciters. That will help you understand the term, whether you understand me or not.


See I can agree that some cops are just bad. In fact they are so bad to the point that they are bullies. I can also agree that some of the cops are incompetent. Some don't know the law and some don't care about the law. And some do their job based on what they feel. But not all cops are bad or incompitent. As for someone who likes to cry "inciter", you are one. I was at the protest in Baltimore and I was disgusted by the protesters because they were inciters. They say blanket statements and label all cops as killers and constitutional violators. Like the cops go to work everyday to look for someone they could victimize. I see on your post that you are quick to judge and to label people. Yes, cops are people too.

Now for the important matter, how do we fix the problem with bad police, to include the ones who violate rights of the people. Take it up with their command. Make them accountable for it. Whining and labeling them all is not going to solve this. Also, when you make a complaint, don't be complaining that cops broke in your house unless the cop literally burglarized your house. People won't take you seriously when you do that. Just say what actually happened. The cop came in your house with out you saying they could come in.

You don't have to like the police and you don't have to support them, however you better make friends or get used to crime. That's what's happening in Baltimore right now. People said cops don't do anything but harass them. So, cops don't " harass" them anymore. They now have over 120 victims of non fatal shooting and over 40 homicides since the riots started. So now the people are complaining that crime is so high because the police don't "harass" (do their job) them anymore


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> .....
> You don't have to like the police and you don't have to support them, however you better make friends or get used to crime. That's what's happening in Baltimore right now. People said cops don't do anything but harass them. So, cops don't " harass" them anymore. They now have over 120 victims of non fatal shooting and over 40 homicides since the riots started. So now the people are complaining that crime is so high because the police don't "harass" (do their job) them anymore


All by design: 
You curtail people's right to defend themsleves, crime goes up.
You increase policing to the point it becomes unbearable. Crime goes down but hostility towards authoerity goes up.
You decrease police presence, crime goes up.
No win situation for the public, either accept crime or accept the police state.


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## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> All by design:
> You curtail people's right to defend themsleves, crime goes up.
> You increase policing to the point it becomes unbearable. Crime goes down but hostility towards authoerity goes up.
> You decrease police presence, crime goes up.
> No win situation for the public, either accept crime or accept the police state.


That police state crap is getting old. This is not Russia. Cops still need search warrant to search, unless you consent and you can still protest peacefully if you want to voice your grievances. If a cop does something wrong, make a complaint, make them accountable. Doing nothing and crying about it won't solve anything.


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> That police state crap is getting old. This is not Russia. Cops still need search warrant to search, unless you consent and you can still protest peacefully if you want to voice your grievances. If a cop does something wrong, make a complaint, make them accountable. Doing nothing and crying about it won't solve anything.


So you are one of those who refuse to see the chains. I guess you have been sleeping for a while. There have been a few court decisions in receint years that have watered down the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments.

Who says the people posting on this board are not doing anything besides posting on this board? Sounds like you have a projection issue.

The free exchange of ideas and airing grievences on the WWW and through social media is some of the most powerful ways to get things noticed. It is not whining or crying, it is connecting or would you prefer people shut up anf comply while filing their complaints to the agencies who are doing the wrongs in the first place?


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## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> So you are one of those who refuse to see the chains. I guess you have been sleeping for a while. There have been a few court decisions in receint years that have watered down the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments.
> 
> Who says the people posting on this board are not doing anything besides posting on this board? Sounds like you have a projection issue.
> 
> The free exchange of ideas and airing grievences on the WWW and through social media is some of the most powerful ways to get things noticed. It is not whining or crying, it is connecting or would you prefer people shut up anf comply while filing their complaints to the agencies who are doing the wrongs in the first place?


Yeah I see a lot of post about how bad things are, nothing about what was done about it. I get the social media thing or even the marches and protest. Yeah I get it, some police violate rights. What I need to hear is how do we fix this problem? When we were attacked in 911 we did not threaten Afghanistan with a severe post on social media saying how bad they are. We went there and bombed them back to the stone age. Talk is OK, but its better if it is backed up with action.


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> Yeah I see a lot of post about how bad things are, nothing about what was done about it. I get the social media thing or even the marches and protest. Yeah I get it, some police violate rights. What I need to hear is how do we fix this problem? When we were attacked in 911 we did not threaten Afghanistan with a severe post on social media saying how bad they are. We went there and bombed them back to the stone age. Talk is OK, but its better if it is backed up with action.


You are good at asking others what to do about it, let us hear some of your suggestions. Besides go file a grievence, since 90% of those end up in the trash anyway. I have filed grievences against police officers in the past, nothing ever happens and nothing seems to ever get solved that way.

Afganistan has nothing to do with the situation but it is a nice strawman argument. That was country vs country. People verse Force (government) is a much more delicate balance. You cannot go bomb the police station because they falsely arrested you. However, you can get on the local news and social media to draw attention to it though, which will apply the type of pressure, either political or social to get things moving in the right direction.

BTW: I have been to that Armpit twice and with the way things are going politically in this country the terrorist are going to be claiming victory over the paper tiger one day soon.


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## Therussianbear

dsdmmat said:


> You are good at asking others what to do about it, let us hear some of your suggestions. Besides go file a grievence, since 90% of those end up in the trash anyway. I have filed grievences against police officers in the past, nothing ever happens and nothing gets solved that way.
> 
> Afganistan has nothing to do with the situation but it is a nice strawman argument. That was country vs country. People verse Force (government) is a much more deicate ballance. You cannot go bomb the police station because they falsely arrested you. you can get on the local news and social media to draw attention to it though.


I went through the full worthless process with my complaints against one our local cops,it went no where even with the facts being pointed out,they just told me the officer did nothing wrong. 
I am not saying all cops get away with mistreating citizens of their cities, just many are allowed to just slip away with zero done about citizens complaints.
It take something BIG like in Baltimore to get something done and done quickly.


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## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> You are good at asking others what to do about it, let us hear some of your suggestions. Besides go file a grievence, since 90% of those end up in the trash anyway. I have filed grievences against police officers in the past, nothing ever happens and nothing gets solved that way.
> 
> Afganistan has nothing to do with the situation but it is a nice strawman argument. That was country vs country. People verse Force (government) is a much more deicate ballance. You cannot go bomb the police station because they falsely arrested you. you can get on the local news and social media to draw attention to it though.


In my experience, contacting internal affairs and documenting the contact is a must. Ask for results and ask to be notified with what's being done about your complaint. Let them know you are serious and you are taking the complaint all the way up. Call the Attorney Generals office, call the mayors office, call the council members and even get the community relations officers. Let all of them know that you will go all the way to DOJ to get results. Now when you make your complaints, be straight up about it. Don't exaggerate and say that the cops broke in your house when all they did was come in to talk to you. Obviously entering your domain without your invitation is not good, but don't make that as a burglary because it is not. IA will not take you seriously and your complaint will be trashed. Video record the officer, but when you do, do it lawfully and reasonable. Don't stick your cell phone in the officers face. You don't want that done to you so don't do it to others. Hen you video record, just say I am video recordingbto document this contact. Don't say stupid things that sound like you are inciting the cop to smash your head in. If you act intelligently, you will be treated as such, if you act stupid you won't very anywhere and you will be dismissed as an inciter or a cop baiter.


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## 6811

Bear not because you made a complaint, the officer will be punished. It does not work that way. If you are not satisfied with the complaint, take it up higher. A lot of people say that, cops cover up for each other, cops do this,cops do that. But during the complaint process, when internal affairs ask you to come in for an official statement, people don't follow through. This is why complaints get shelved. Same thing in civilian world. If you complain that a bad guy robbed you and the police arrested him, you still need to go to court to testify. If you don't, the judge will dismiss the case.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> ...... If you act intelligently, you will be treated as such.......


Yeah, not so much in my experience, which is why I now avoid contact with cops as much as humanly possible. I used to be a staunch supporter of LE but not so much anymore. I see them as a necessarry evil and prefer not to make any contact with them even socially.


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## Arklatex

What caused our resident cop hater to be banned? Just curious.


----------



## dsdmmat

Arklatex said:


> What caused our resident cop hater to be banned? Just curious.


 Probably the same thing that will get me banned, lol.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> Yeah, not so much in my experience, which is why I now avoid contact with cops as much as humanly possible. I used to be a staunch supporter of LE but not so much anymore. I see them as a necessarry evil and prefer not to make any contact with them even socially.


So you think that if you act intelligently cops will still abuse you? If so, then you are right, the best thing to do is avoid them at all cost. Do not call them for anything and I mean anything at all. I'm sure the cops won't mind you not calling them.


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## 6811

Arklatex said:


> What caused our resident cop hater to be banned? Just curious.


What? Diver got banned? For what?


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> So you think that if you act intelligently cops will still abuse you? If so, then you are right, the best thing to do is avoid them at all cost. Do not call them for anything and I mean anything at all. I'm sure the cops won't mind you not calling them.


No, what I think is not the story here. My dealing with the police left a sour taste in my mouth for them as that is the reason I do not deal with them.

Another Strawman argument, "Do not call them for anything and I mean anything at all." If you don't like cops don't call them? I suppose if you follow that theory to the nth degree, if you don't like congress don't call them is a viable thought process too? The police are a public service for everyone, not just the ones who lick their boots.

I don't call the police, I have not had a reason to call them. The police are a reactionary force not a preventative one. They have no duty to protect an individual. There is no sense in contacting them for help as it will not arrive in time. The only reason to call the police is to report a crime to get a report for your insurance company, and that is a requiremnt of the insurance company.


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## Salt-N-Pepper

We need to rename this POLICEFORUMS or something.

C'mon guys, this is PREPPERFORUMS, I've been mostly ignoring this crap for the last few weeks but it's really getting old.

If you want to talk about cops, why not go to a police related board and give it a rest here? Seriously. It kinda sucks having to dig through tons of threads threads of cops and politics (all beating the same dead horses over and over) to find any prepping stuff.


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## Prepared One

Arklatex said:


> What caused our resident cop hater to be banned? Just curious.


Diver got banned?


----------



## dsdmmat

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> We need to rename this POLICEFORUMS or something.
> 
> C'mon guys, this is PREPPERFORUMS, I've been mostly ignoring this crap for the last few weeks but it's really getting old.
> 
> If you want to talk about cops, why not go to a police related board and give it a rest here? Seriously. It kinda sucks having to dig through tons of threads threads of cops and politics (all beating the same dead horses over and over) to find any prepping stuff.


As I stated in my first post of this thread this place has gone down hill when there are threads created just to troll for responses.


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## Arklatex

Most of my threads are either prepping or firearms related. If yall want more prepping threads, nothing is stopping you from creating some...


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## Therussianbear

6811 said:


> Bear not because you made a complaint, the officer will be punished. It does not work that way. If you are not satisfied with the complaint, take it up higher. A lot of people say that, cops cover up for each other, cops do this,cops do that. But during the complaint process, when internal affairs ask you to come in for an official statement, people don't follow through. This is why complaints get shelved. Same thing in civilian world. If you complain that a bad guy robbed you and the police arrested him, you still need to go to court to testify. If you don't, the judge will dismiss the case.


In my crime infested cow town our police "internal affairs" is a sham there is no internal affairs just a few cops who when you come in to file a complaint stick on caps of internal affairs written on them. all our "internal affairs" ends up being our worthless mayor appointed Chief of police does is write his own police Dept. self serving report,calls in a Major and gets him to sign off on the worthless our police Dept. officers did everything by the book and so did nothing wrong. End of your internal affairs investigation.
Take the cop to court Ha! Ha! think any Judge will let it move forward? DREAM ON.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Arklatex said:


> Most of my threads are either prepping or firearms related. If yall want more prepping threads, nothing is stopping you from creating some...


I have been adding to prepping threads, a LOT, as have you, and revisiting and updating my ongoing threads. I don't start more because this is PrepperForums not SaltyForums.


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## Denton

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I have been adding to prepping threads, a LOT, as have you, and revisiting and updating my ongoing threads. I don't start more because this is PrepperForums not SaltyForums.


Maybe so, but we sure do enjoy the Salty threads.


----------



## Arklatex

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I have been adding to prepping threads, a LOT, as have you, and revisiting and updating my ongoing threads. I don't start more because this is PrepperForums not SaltyForums.


Point taken and I admit that you and Spices thread about your BOL is one of my favorites. Did you get the gate up yet?


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## csi-tech

James m said:


> The police deal with a lot of bad people day after day and that probably shapes a lot of their personalities. That said not everyone you deal with is a rapist or a murderer, and don't need to be treated like one.


This is very true. Have you ever gone to a doctor's office and they automatically assume you are a med seeking junkie? Perhaps you have gone into a cell phone store and everyone just assumed you were about to be a jerk so they launched a preemptive strike. It happens in my town all of the time because we are a community just a touch south of a great deal of wealth. We have the liquor stores, the cash advance joints, the pawn shops, the we buy gold stores and tobacco outlets. Our tax base is strongly dependent on Wal Mart, or biggest retailer. These are the people I deal with every single day. It can make you turn sour in no time. You just have to look beyond that and realize that these people, like you are just making a living. They are different from me socio- economically but no less deserving. It can be very hard not to dip everyone in the same vat of paint.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Arklatex said:


> Point taken and I admit that you and Spices thread about your BOL is one of my favorites. Did you get the gate up yet?


Will address where we are at when in that thread when she gets back from working on the place today. She stayed overnight last night for the first time, at the cabin.


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## Charles Martel

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. In my experience the power/authority that police wield over the civilian population eventually corrupts most cops to one degree or another. I think all positions of power, including police and civil leaders, should be limited in duration (term limits). There should be no professional police, politicians, judges, etc.


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## SARGE7402

While it doesn't necessarily have to there are a lot of folks that should never be in a position of authority. However the majority of folks in these positions do credible jobs and for the most part don't abuse their authority. Problem is you never hear any of the good things done by the almost 1 million law enforcement officers, the almost 3 million service members, the countless politicians from town council members up to those that serve in congress. 

And really what you and I think about term limits would never hold up in today's world. To deprive a group of folks their right to choose their village idiot would be seen as an affront to the 1st Amd


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## 6811

Therussianbear said:


> In my crime infested cow town our police "internal affairs" is a sham there is no internal affairs just a few cops who when you come in to file a complaint stick on caps of internal affairs written on them. all our "internal affairs" ends up being our worthless mayor appointed Chief of police does is write his own police Dept. self serving report,calls in a Major and gets him to sign off on the worthless our police Dept. officers did everything by the book and so did nothing wrong. End of your internal affairs investigation.
> Take the cop to court Ha! Ha! think any Judge will let it move forward? DREAM ON.


Try the state AG. If that doesn't work DOJ.


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## 6811

Charles Martel said:


> Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. In my experience the power/authority that police wield over the civilian population eventually corrupts most cops to one degree or another. I think all positions of power, including police and civil leaders, should be limited in duration (term limits). There should be no professional police, politicians, judges, etc.


Term limits on police is a very bad idea. It takes a life time to train homicide detectives, not to mention sex crimes and child abuse detectives. Politicians, most definitely and judges too. Baltimore did a forced rotation on police one time. resulted in a disaster, closure of cases suffered badly.


----------



## 6811

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> We need to rename this POLICEFORUMS or something.
> 
> C'mon guys, this is PREPPERFORUMS, I've been mostly ignoring this crap for the last few weeks but it's really getting old.
> 
> If you want to talk about cops, why not go to a police related board and give it a rest here? Seriously. It kinda sucks having to dig through tons of threads threads of cops and politics (all beating the same dead horses over and over) to find any prepping stuff.


It still is prepper forums, but this thread I believe is about cop haters which is why we are discussing LEO bashing.


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## 8301

Well I support the local police who generally do a good job considering how much their hands are tied by the rules politicians place on them. Yes, cops are human and are sometimes a bit lazy or make mistakes but the vast majority of them do a good job protecting life and property. 

And for those of you who don't trust the police who are you going to call if someone breaks into your house while you are away?


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## csi-tech

I can't stand Cops. Dirty bastards..........Wait a minute,...............

I'm not lazy! I'm working my keester off.


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## dsdmmat

FoolAmI said:


> ......And for those of you who don't trust the police who are you going to call if someone breaks into your house while you are away?


 another straw an argument? Man you guys are too easy.
You still have to call the police there is no alternative, you have to get a police report for the insurance. if there was an alternative I would call them. However just because you have to call the police to get a piece of paper saying your house was broken into doesn't mean you have to trust them. They provide a public service paid for by the taxpayers, that public service doesn't depend upon your trust or your respect.

As I have stated and your question iludes to, the police forces are reactionary not preventative.


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## pheniox17

dsdmmat said:


> Yeah, not so much in my experience, which is why I now avoid contact with cops as much as humanly possible. I used to be a staunch supporter of LE but not so much anymore. I see them as a necessarry evil and prefer not to make any contact with them even socially.


This will have to be the best line....

In my fire station I have a fed and a screw that I fight fires with.. Both are great people and also would support that line... Cops are a nessacery evil... Socially.... With limited dealings with state police, and ex state police I cant stand the arrogance.... Ahd the act of pretending to be above the law


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## 6811

We all hate getting tickets and being stopped by the police, hell there are times I wish there was no police. I just wonder sometimes, what would happen to america if all the cops disappear?


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## Harry Cline

That's not hard to find out now. Just take a walk through any hood in America and some hoods even in broad daylight.
Let's just hope when the SHTF is upon us the cops don't open up on all of us. Perhaps we can wear something around our necks that show we are friendlies. Actually that might not work cause the bad guys could get a hold of it and wear it. 

Implants that can be read from a distance for anyone convicted of a felony.
Can you imagine during a SHTF when some bad people open the doors to all the prisons. Just what we need uh, as if it won't be bad enough right.
And some of the ex-cons I met when I was homeless years ago you don't trust them even around a snake. :distrust:


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## Jakthesoldier

Denton said:


> As I have shared before, I was arrested off of my own property by cops who were not invited onto my property by me. They followed a friend onto my property over a traffic code violation. No lights were turned on, no official pursuit.
> The charge was tossed, of course. Afterward, I went to the cop shop to have a sit-down with the asst head cop. Every reason imaginable was thrown at me. All of them good reasons except every one was no excuse for violating the constitution. It doesn't matter that pulling into a driveway is a common tactic, for example. That reason is still no excuse.
> 
> Now, the two cops were bad cops because they were bad guys... period, hands down. The asst. chief was the typical cop who needed more training in the rights of the citizens, but he was not a bad cop because he was not a bad guy. He was simply ignorant.
> 
> Do you get what I am saying? A man isn't bad just because he is a cop, neither is he good because of it. Good guys who are cops violate people's rights each and every single day. They do it out of ignorance. On the other hand, there are bad guys who are cops, and they enjoy their power and their "authority" and love to wield it over their fellow citizens. No amount of education in the world will change them.
> 
> Why is it that some people try and convince us that all are bad, while others have to point out that there are good guys, true heroes, who wear the uniform? Aren't we all smart enough to understand human nature?


Ignorance of the law is not a defense to prosecution. That goes both ways. Don't be a cop if you don't know the law.
A bad cop is a bad cop. An ignorant cop is a bad cop. And cops aren't ignorant, they know full well they are doing illegal stuff, they do it because cops don't go to jail, they get protected by other cops. Kind of like how hillary isn't in prison, because politicians don't go to jail because other politicians save them.


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## Jakthesoldier

FoolAmI said:


> Well I support the local police who generally do a good job considering how much their hands are tied by the rules politicians place on them. Yes, cops are human and are sometimes a bit lazy or make mistakes but the vast majority of them do a good job protecting life and property.
> 
> And for those of you who don't trust the police who are you going to call if someone breaks into your house while you are away?


Insurance? And probably the morgue. Dogs don't like strangers


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## 1skrewsloose

And for those of you who don't trust the police who are you going to call if someone breaks into your house while you are away?[/QUOTE]

How would you know someone broke into your house if you were away? Sorry, you have cams! When seconds count, the police are only minutes away! Not bashing, the truth. jmo. Know your neighbors, we watch each others back.


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## Quietsurvivalist

With very few exceptions Ive noticed NOT ONE person understands what its like from the other direction.

You know what its like to chase down someone who just raped his grandmother? Or set 4 small children on fire with a can of gas? Or arrest the same person every week for the same things and no prosecution because he didnt confess? Or have someone off their meds try a suicide by cop when you KNOW his wife and kids?

Be thankful you dont know what we do, you will sleep better. BUt when you wonder why your nieghbor cop wont talk much when he's off duty perhaps its because your idea of a bad day and his are radically different.


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## 6811

Quietsurvivalist said:


> With very few exceptions Ive noticed NOT ONE person understands what its like from the other direction.
> 
> You know what its like to chase down someone who just raped his grandmother? Or set 4 small children on fire with a can of gas? Or arrest the same person every week for the same things and no prosecution because he didnt confess? Or have someone off their meds try a suicide by cop when you KNOW his wife and kids?
> 
> Be thankful you dont know what we do, you will sleep better. BUt when you wonder why your nieghbor cop wont talk much when he's off duty perhaps its because your idea of a bad day and his are radically different.


actually, because you are cop you are supposed to stop being human. Since you are paid with taxes paid by the people you are subject to physical and verbal abuse and no right to complain. You are held to a higher standards but you will be treated like a low life and that should be OK because you are held to a higher standard. You are not allowed to judge people but its OK for the people to judge you and label you corrupt and not trustworthy because you wear a badge. Its OK for the people to Monday quarter back your actions while you were in harmsway. Of course the person doing the critisism is doing it in the safety of their home. People will expect you to do things they would not dare do and again, criticize you for not doing it flawlessly.

Yeah, I wish ALL cops would stop working, just for a week. This way I get to see and hangout with my kids while we watch the people make friends with the criminals. That has not happened yet, what's going on in Baltimore is not near that. Cops still work in Baltimore, they still investigate and arrest criminals. The bad guys are becoming bold because city hall told them to stand down, hence the rise is shootings and homicides. I wonder what would happen if there are no cops working at all.


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## slewfoot

6811 said:


> So we take news articles as gospel now? Do you know that All news reports have inaccuracies in it. For example, in Baltimore a 21 year old mother killed her daughter a year ago. News said that it was a 15 month long investigation when in reality the detective solved the case in less than 3 weeks. During the Baltimore riots, CNN would only show Freddy Grey being picked up from the ground while he was pretending to drag his legs. CNN would not show him standing up, ducking down and stepping in the wagon. I got you figured out diver, you are no different than those anti police protesters who has no real facts, Just bogus information and a lot of hate.


Thank you, pushed the smoke away and saw the light.


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> actually, because you are cop you are supposed to stop being human. Since you are paid with taxes paid by the people you are subject to physical and verbal abuse and no right to complain. You are held to a higher standards but you will be treated like a low life and that should be OK because you are held to a higher standard. You are not allowed to judge people but its OK for the people to judge you and label you corrupt and not trustworthy because you wear a badge. Its OK for the people to Monday quarter back your actions while you were in harmsway. Of course the person doing the critisism is doing it in the safety of their home. People will expect you to do things they would not dare do and again, criticize you for not doing it flawlessly.
> 
> Yeah, I wish ALL cops would stop working, just for a week. This way I get to see and hangout with my kids while we watch the people make friends with the criminals. That has not happened yet, what's going on in Baltimore is not near that. Cops still work in Baltimore, they still investigate and arrest criminals. The bad guys are becoming bold because city hall told them to stand down, hence the rise is shootings and homicides. I wonder what would happen if there are no cops working at all.


Yeah it would be fantastic if all the cops quite for a week or even a year, then the people could figure out we don't need them to do what we should be doing all along. Being responsible for our own safety and security. Maybe then they would stop voting for the dumbasses that continue to pass laws that rob us from our rights.

Then our society can return to what it should be.


----------



## dsdmmat

Quietsurvivalist said:


> With very few exceptions Ive noticed NOT ONE person understands what its like from the other direction.
> 
> You know what its like to chase down someone who just raped his grandmother? Or set 4 small children on fire with a can of gas? Or arrest the same person every week for the same things and no prosecution because he didnt confess? Or have someone off their meds try a suicide by cop when you KNOW his wife and kids?
> 
> Be thankful you dont know what we do, you will sleep better. BUt when you wonder why your nieghbor cop wont talk much when he's off duty perhaps its because your idea of a bad day and his are radically different.


If you don't like what you do you can always find another line of work.

My idea of a bad day is radically different than yours because I have been all over the world and in the armpits of the world. Believe me nothing in the U.S. compares so please save your BS for your neighbors.

I don't hate cops, I just don't buy their BS or lick their boots.


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## Harry Cline

I was out in Orange county next store to L.A. country after the Rodney King riots. The cops stopped answering calls.
Over night murder and mayhem. The public was begging them to patrol again. There are some hoods out there that the cops won't even go into that's how dangerous they are.
They just seal the perimeter and let them kill each other. 

When the time comes it might serve us all good if we bomb the prisons and the hoods. Cause it will be bad enough dealing with the good people that have gone rogue.


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## James m

Police have the right to go home after a shift. If you don't like your job find a new one. No one forced you to do that for a living.


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## dsdmmat

Harry Cline said:


> I was out in Orange county next store to L.A. country after the Rodney King riots. The cops stopped answering calls.
> Over night murder and mayhem. The public was begging them to patrol again. There are some hoods out there that the cops won't even go into that's how dangerous they are.
> They just seal the perimeter and let them kill each other.
> 
> When the time comes it might serve us all good if we bomb the prisons and the hoods. Cause it will be bad enough dealing with the good people that have gone rogue.


I was assigned to the 7th ID then, the people in CA we're screwed over by their politicians and the liberal voters, the only businesses/ people that were not bothered by the rioters were the Koreans with with guns. The people of Southern CA were disarmed a long time before the riots and they were easy pickings for criminals because they believed those politicians who said they didn't have to worry for their safety that is why they had such a large police force. 
When there are no police around the sheep heard gets thinned and that is not really a bad thing.


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## Harry Cline

Oh yeah I remember seeing the Koreans on the news, they where ready for battle. Even on the roof of their stores with shotguns.
I lived out there for years and I only ever went through L.A. a few times but one thing I always remembered was how mean the cops are. But as I got older I realized what they have to deal with. Cali is a mess, multiple ideologies and not one of them can stand on it's own merits. I left over 20 years ago.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> If you don't like what you do you can always find another line of work.
> 
> My idea of a bad day is radically different than yours because I have been all over the world and in the armpits of the world. Believe me nothing in the U.S. compares so please save your BS for your neighbors.
> 
> I don't hate cops, I just don't buy their BS or lick their boots.


No one asked you to lick anyone's boots. You can also stop the BS, it is so obvious you hate cops. Judging by your reasons not wanting cops, you think cops made up the laws they enforce. You can blame your legislators for that.


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## dsdmmat

Harry Cline said:


> Oh yeah I remember seeing the Koreans on the news, they where ready for battle. Even on the roof of their stores with shotguns.
> I lived out there for years and I only ever went through L.A. a few times but one thing I always remembered was how mean the cops are. But as I got older I realized what they have to deal with. Cali is a mess, multiple ideologies and not one of them can stand on it's own merits. I left over 20 years ago.


I never went anywhere in CA without a gun. The last time I was there was 1993 I never plan on going back. The best thing that could happen to CA is it falls into the ocean.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> Yeah it would be fantastic if all the cops quite for a week or even a year, then the people could figure out we don't need them to do what we should be doing all along. Being responsible for our own safety and security. Maybe then they would stop voting for the dumbasses that continue to pass laws that rob us from our rights.
> 
> Then our society can return to what it should be.


7th ID, I'm sure you have been in the middle east. You remove cops in the US, living in that sand box will be a walk in the park compared to what will happen to the US without LEO. Yeah, you may do well in WROL but not everyone and you won't be able to protect all of them. Yeah scotus said cops don't protect, but they are a deterent and you know it.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> No one asked you to lick anyone's boots. You can also stop the BS, it is so obvious you hate cops. Judging by your reasons not wanting cops, you think cops made up the laws they enforce. You can blame your legislators for that.


Oh believe me I have no love for the liberals who vote for the criminals who make the laws or their henchmen who enforce them.


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## Harry Cline

If that happens they may have to bring all the tech. jobs back from China & India. Just think an Apple computer that truly is American design and made. :joyous:
(after the prisons and the hoods we bomb wall-street)


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> 7th ID, I'm sure you have been in the middle east. You remove cops in the US, living in that sand box will be a walk in the park compared to what will happen to the US without LEO. Yeah, you may do well in WROL but not everyone and you won't be able to protect all of them. Yeah scotus said cops don't protect, but they are a deterent and you know it.


The criminal element is not that large to where it will be worse than the Middle East, a majority of them would be dead in less than a year. The war on drugs created a whole new breed of criminals which would not be a problem once drugs were no longer illegal. Follow the money and that will tell you where the problems are. Get rid of 90% of the laws you can get rid of 90% of the law enforcement.

Cops only deter those who don't want to get caught up in the system. If cops were a deterrent there would be no crime. If laws stopped crime we would have no crime. The only deterrent to crime is situational awareness and the ability to stop it yourself ( traits which a lot of Americans are lacking in).


----------



## dsdmmat

Harry Cline said:


> If that happens they may have to bring all the tech. jobs back from China & India. Just think an Apple computer that truly is American design and made. :joyous:
> (after the prisons and the hoods we bomb wall-street)


Most of those on Wall-Street would not know what to do if the local coffee shop shut down for two days.


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## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> Oh believe me I have no love for the liberals who vote for the criminals who make the laws or their henchmen who enforce them.


Like I said, its very obvious that "you have no love " for the so called henchmen.


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## bigwheel

Well I love all cops..nearly. My big brother who lived in sunny CA for 40 years or so..say L.A. cop are out of control wild animals. Now just to be fair he is a left wing commie libtard who voted for Obummer twice..so not sure how much to believe him on that. Now the copping brochures say they nice and dedicated are just spread thin with a lot of wacky citizens to control..so they come to kick some coola and take names when they come. They try to give a little shock and awe in military jargon. Truth got to be somwhere in the middle of that somewhere. lol


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> Like I said, its very obvious that "you have no love " for the so called henchmen.


No love does not equal hate. I have already stated I don't like them.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> The criminal element is not that large to where it will be worse than the Middle East, a majority of them would be dead in less than a year. The war on drugs created a whole new breed of criminals which would not be a problem once drugs were no longer illegal. Follow the money and that will tell you where the problems are. Get rid of 90% of the laws you can get rid of 90% of the law enforcement.
> 
> Cops only deter those who don't want to get caught up in the system. If cops were a deterrent there would be no crime. If laws stopped crime we would have no crime. The only deterrent to crime is situational awareness and the ability to stop it yourself ( traits which a lot of Americans are lacking in).


For someone who is not a cop you claim to know a lot about criminals and how many they are or what goes on. Legalizing drugs is a good idea, and no that is not the only crime that happens in inner cities. Robberies and lootings are far less because cops are on the watch. Same with carjackings, with no cops, thugs would yank your ass out of you car so they could have fun and burn your ride. Do good deeds even when no one is looking, yeah that may apply to some of us but there are far more people who do not follow that.


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> For someone who is not a cop you claim to know a lot about criminals and how many they are or what goes on. Legalizing drugs is a good idea, and no that is not the only crime that happens in inner cities. Robberies and lootings are far less because cops are on the watch. Same with carjackings, with no cops, thugs would yank your ass out of you car so they could have fun and burn your ride. Do good deeds even when no one is looking, yeah that may apply to some of us but there are far more people who do not follow that.


I have been around the block a time or two. A majority of crime is driven by economics, legalizing drugs would deflate the economics that come along with them being illegal. Robberies and carjackings are driven by economics. The criminals that are not effected by economics are your serial killers, rapist and child molestors. Those are the ones who would need to be weeded out.

There are always going to be thieves and petty criminals. The numbers of car jacking a go down as the threat of violence to the car jacker goes up, just as crim has been on the decline for the past 20 years because gun ownership has gone up and CCW rates are up in every state. The major cities where gun ownership and CCW is limited to the rich and connected are always going to have problems until that changes.

We have way too many laws and way too many law enforcement agencies in this country.


----------



## dsdmmat

James m said:


> Police have the right to go home after a shift. If you don't like your job find a new one. No one forced you to do that for a living.


What does this have to do with anything? Nobody said anything about cops not going home after their shift.


----------



## James m

That's always the argument about a police officers safety after they shoot someone, that they have a right to go home. I'm saying that no one forced him to be a cop, he can go home any time he likes.


----------



## dsdmmat

James m said:


> That's always the argument about a police officers safety after they shoot someone, that they have a right to go home. I'm saying that no one forced him to be a cop, he can go home any time he likes.


Ahhh that wasn't too clear, which is why I asked. It is one of those strawman arguments that people like to throw out there.

Like every occupation if you don't like the heartaches that come with it there is always another line of employment looking for new blood. Most people that get into LE or the Military are type A and adrenaline junkies. So when you hear someone stating "you don't know how tough it is," how tough their job is, it makes you want to roll your eyes into the back of your head.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> I have been around the block a time or two. A majority of crime is driven by economics, legalizing drugs would deflate the economics that come along with them being illegal. Robberies and carjackings are driven by economics. The criminals that are not effected by economics are your serial killers, rapist and child molestors. Those are the ones who would need to be weeded out.
> 
> There are always going to be thieves and petty criminals. The numbers of car jacking a go down as the threat of violence to the car jacker goes up, just as crim has been on the decline for the past 20 years because gun ownership has gone up and CCW rates are up in every state. The major cities where gun ownership and CCW is limited to the rich and connected are always going to have problems until that changes.
> 
> We have way too many laws and way too many law enforcement agencies in this country.


For your information not everyone wants a gun or better yet qualified to have CCW. There are lots of people who choose not to carry or even own a firearm. As for robberies being economic crime, I'm sure jesie and al told you that. Believe it or not there are people out there that rather commit a crime than be a part of a good society. They refuse to go to school, learn and do the right thing. You need a job to be a part of the economy and you need an education to get a job.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> For your information not everyone wants a gun or better yet qualified to have CCW. There are lots of people who choose not to carry or even own a firearm. As for robberies being economic crime, I'm sure jesie and al told you that. Believe it or not there are people out there that rather commit a crime than be a part of a good society. They refuse to go to school, learn and do the right thing. You need a job to be a part of the economy and you need an education to get a job.


no one is responsible for your safety more than you. If you decide that you want to leave your safety in someone else's hands well the outcome of that decision is not my problem. I stated there are always going to be thieves and petty criminals, what is your point?


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> That's always the argument about a police officers safety after they shoot someone, that they have a right to go home. I'm saying that no one forced him to be a cop, he can go home any time he likes.


You obviously don't understand what that means.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 are you a cop or just a cop supporter?


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> no one is responsible for your safety more than you. If you decide that you want to leave your safety in someone else's hands well the outcome of that decision is not my problem. I stated there are always going to be thieves and petty criminals, what is your point?


So who is going to watch out for the ones who cannot defend themselves? Not your problem..... Right?


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> 6811 are you a cop or just a cop supporter?


Does it matter if I was a cop or a cop supporter?


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> So who is going to watch out for the ones who cannot defend themselves? Not your problem..... Right?


Do they not have family?


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> Does it matter if I was a cop or a cop supporter?


Just wanted to know what level of dislike I should have for you.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> Just wanted to know what level of dislike I should have for you.


I am a trash man, does this make you hate all trashman now?


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> Do they not have family?


Are you an idiot?


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> Are you an idiot?


Are you a liberal?


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> I am a trash man, does this make you hate all trashman now?


Nope I don't hate people who haven't pointed a gun in my face.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> Are you a liberal?


No I'm not a liberal. I don't get my info from MSNBC, CNN or CBS. And, I don't wear tin foil hats, nor listen to Alex Jones.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> No I'm not a liberal. I don't get my info from MSNBC, CNN or CBS. And, I don't wear tin foil hats, nor listen to Alex Jones.


Then you have your answer.


----------



## James m

6811 said:


> You obviously don't understand what that means.


If he doesn't want to get shot or put his life on the line he can go home.


----------



## James m

Were waiting on more riots. Each side keeps reacting to the other side, if it keeps going it'll boil over sooner or later. There's your SHTF.


----------



## bigwheel

Lot of good points being made around here. Thanks for the discussion. Most all the Libertarian oriented folks seem to be big supporters of legalizing drugs which is surely coming. Can only hope its done right. Heard this hippy say the other day aint nobody buying the nice legal pot up in Colorada except the tourists. The Guv'ment approved vendors are too dang expensive..so for the local tokers its back to the same old illegal supply chain. Oh well they have been making a living off Texas touristas for many moons huh? Dang money grubers.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> If he doesn't want to get shot or put his life on the line he can go home.


Exactly. That's not what it means.


----------



## James m

OK do tell.


----------



## dsdmmat

bigwheel said:


> Lot of good points being made around here. Thanks for the discussion. Most all the Libertarian oriented folks seem to be big supporters of legalizing drugs which is surely coming. Can only hope its done right. Heard this hippy say the other day aint nobody buying the nice legal pot up in Colorada except the tourists. The Guv'ment approved vendors are too dang expensive..so for the local tokers its back to the same old illegal supply chain. Oh well they have been making a living off Texas touristas for many moons huh? Dang money grubers.


There is always going to be a black market for goods when the government has their hands in the pot ( pun intended). Moonshine is another area where there is a flourishing underground economy.


----------



## Harry Cline

Of course very few will kill over the moon shine. You ain't seen nothing yet.


----------



## dsdmmat

James m said:


> Were waiting on more riots. Each side keeps reacting to the other side, if it keeps going it'll boil over sooner or later. There's your SHTF.


Unfortunately I believe you are on the right path. There are people who make money from unrest and as long as it keeps going they will keep spewing their message which incites it even more. Politicians also take advantage of the situation to restrict the right of the honest citizen. It is impossible to lord over an honest man, so they have to continue passing laws until everyone is a criminal.


----------



## dsdmmat

Harry Cline said:


> Of course very few will kill over the moon shine. You ain't seen nothing yet.


The war on drugs brought a lot of violence into this country.

Just like prohibition did in the 20s.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> OK do tell.


OK. Let me give you an example so you can get your answer. So, you are driving a car on a one lane road one road going south, the other going north. Now, a cat runs out in front of your car and there is no chance you can stop to prevent running over the cat and if you swerved to your left you will hit a big trash truck head on and if you swerved to your right you fall because there is a ravine. What do you do? Go straight and kill the cat or would you go left or right? Or do we say, hey if you don't want to get into an accident don't drive?


----------



## Harry Cline

That's one of the great myths. It's never been a war. Only a containment. As it stands today if you took away the prescription drug addictions you would still have roughly 35% of the population strung out on drugs.
America has fast become a nation of dopers, deviants and malcontents.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> The war on drugs brought a lot of violence into this country.
> 
> Just like prohibition did in the 20s.


I agree with the above statement. Decriminalization of drugs will actually not stop the violence. Complete legalization will.


----------



## dsdmmat

Harry Cline said:


> That's one of the great myths. It's never been a war. Only a containment. As it stands today if you took away the prescription drug addictions you would still have roughly 35% of the population strung out on drugs.
> America has fast become a nation of dopers, deviants and malcontents.


 True, like the war on poverty isn't really a war it is a program to make people dependent on government for their daily lives.

It is funny the talking heads in government calls their actions against drugs, poverty and other social programs "Wars on ----". Yet Vietnam and Korea were police actions or hostilities in foreign lands.


----------



## James m

That's an inevitable situation. A situation there is no way out of, and on purpose. Let's say the cop decided to be a hairstylist instead, he could get into the run over the cat accident on his way to the salon. Sh*t happens but you don't get out and shoot the garbage truck driver and cut down an innocent tree. Its not a good analogy of a cat. You want to compare human life to a cats life?


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> I agree with the above statement. Decriminalization of drugs will actually not stop the violence. Complete legalization will.


Yeah unfortunately there is still a lot of money to be made by keeping it taboo.


----------



## Harry Cline

When it become legal it will be 10x the amount made. Look at Colorado. Too bad it's all gone into the pockets of the politicians.
I did here though that a couple of schools got new pencils this school year. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention some police dept.'s got new government surplus.
Noting like seeing a tank in the annual memorial day parade uh.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> That's an inevitable situation. A situation there is no way out of, and on purpose. Let's say the cop decided to be a hairstylist instead, he could get into the run over the cat accident on his way to the salon. Sh*t happens but you don't get out and shoot the garbage truck driver and cut down an innocent tree. Its not a good analogy of a cat. You want to compare human life to a cats life?


No I'm trying to give you an example that you could easily understand. The next thing will be... Try to be a cop in the inner city and see how you feel then. I will not trade my life for a potential criminal. This is about cops shooting unarmed people isn't it?


----------



## dsdmmat

Harry Cline said:


> When it become legal it will be 10x the amount made. Look at Colorado. Too bad it's all gone into the pockets of the politicians.
> I did here though that a couple of schools got new pencils this school year.


Didn't Colorado have so much of a tax revenue surplus that they had to give refunds to all of their tax payers?


----------



## James m

Potential criminal? The cop decided to put his life on the line when he signed up.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> Potential criminal? The cop decided to put his life on the line when he signed up.


So because he signed up to be a cop he should just roll over and die? Exactly what al sharpton would say.


----------



## Harry Cline

That's what they where hoping for. I suspect it will fall under the 'trickle down theory'.:armata_PDT_42:


----------



## James m

So there is a lumber truck in the opposite lane. Then there is a blasted rock wall on the right. You're on your way home from work. When suddenly you see a boy scout helping a little old lady continue crossing the street. There is no way you could stop in time. What do you do hotshot????


----------



## James m

6811 said:


> So because he signed up to be a cop he should just roll over and die? Exactly what al sharpton would say.


Are you saying a policemans life is worth more than the life of a general citizen?


----------



## dsdmmat

Cops know the dangers of their job when they sign up, if they say they don't they have not been paying attention. They have to make split second decisions on the street, they have a right to defend themselves. They don't have a right to break the law. That is why transparency and honest investigations of their actions during that event is critical. This is where most of the police agencies which have problems with corruption have gone wrong and why law enforcement in general has lost or come pretty damn close to losing the confidence of the public. 

They have a lot of house cleaning to do, if they don't want to do it, someone else will do it for them and it is not going to be pleasant.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> Are you saying a policemans life is worth more than the life of a general citizen?


Define general citizen? Are you talking about Michael brown or Freddi gray type of citizen?


----------



## James m

I didn't know there were different types of citizens.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> So there is a lumber truck in the opposite lane. Then there is a blasted rock wall on the right. You're on your way home from work. When suddenly you see a boy scout helping a little old lady continue crossing the street. There is no way you could stop in time. What do you do hotshot????


You are from PA so it should not be to far for you. If you want I can get you in a ride a long in maryland, then you can answer your question.... Hot shot. Wanna give it a try cowboy?


----------



## James m

Are you saying you're going to run over grandma and a boyscout?


----------



## Arklatex

Can somebody explain to me why I should have any fear of the police? Never had any problems with them. I just treat them the way I wish to be treated and get the same in return. Oh, and I don't have to deal with them often since I generally obey the laws in my area. They have to work hard just to catch me speeding.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> Are you saying you're going to run over grandma and a boyscout?


No, what I'm trying to say is... You have never been a cop and you have no clue. So to get this discussion concluded I'm giving you an opportunity to be in a patrol car in Baltimore city. After that you can talk smack all you want. So, you wanna give it a try? You'll be alright, nothing to be scared about.


----------



## James m

But I get scared is my life worth more than a shoplifters.
OK I quit.


----------



## dsdmmat

Arklatex said:


> Can somebody explain to me why I should have any fear of the police? Never had any problems with them. I just treat them the way I wish to be treated and get the same in return. Oh, and I don't have to deal with them often since I generally obey the laws in my area. They have to work hard just to catch me speeding.


Depending on which state or communist republic you live in you may have noting to be concerned about. There are 6 "states" that the government has decided that unconstitutional laws were needed to control their populations and their henchmen have no problems enforcing these unconstitutional laws.


----------



## 6811

Arklatex said:


> Can somebody explain to me why I should have any fear of the police? Never had any problems with them. I just treat them the way I wish to be treated and get the same in return. Oh, and I don't have to deal with them often since I generally obey the laws in my area. They have to work hard just to catch me speeding.


I can answer this... You fear police if you are a criminal. Or you are a big fan of Jessie and al and you believe everything they say. If you act intelligently, they will leave you alone.


----------



## CourtSwagger

Arklatex said:


> Can somebody explain to me why I should have any fear of the police? Never had any problems with them. I just treat them the way I wish to be treated and get the same in return. Oh, and I don't have to deal with them often since I generally obey the laws in my area. They have to work hard just to catch me speeding.


Ark, you just keep doing it. Earning massive likes from me. Like x 1 billion. Amen and well said.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> I didn't know there were different types of citizens.


See... I told you, you don't know what you're talking about. You need to travel south on 83 and you will see what's it about.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> I can answer this... You fear police if you are a criminal. Or you are a big fan of Jessie and al and you believe everything they say. If you act intelligently, they will leave you alone.


Actually your general statement is completely false. 
There are a lot of criminals that don't fear the police and a lot of honest citizens that do. There are a good many citizens in saint Louis and Baltimore who genuinely fear the police even though they have done nothing wrong.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> Cops know the dangers of their job when they sign up, if they say they don't they have not been paying attention. They have to make split second decisions on the street, they have a right to defend themselves. They don't have a right to break the law. That is why transparency and honest investigations of their actions during that event is critical. This is where most of the police agencies which have problems with corruption have gone wrong and why law enforcement in general has lost or come pretty damn close to losing the confidence of the public.
> 
> They have a lot of house cleaning to do, if they don't want to do it, someone else will do it for them and it is not going to be pleasant.


Yeah that all sounds good but its very far from the truth. There are 2 types of citizens. Criminal and law abiding. Most of internal affairs complaints come from criminals, law abiding don't get much interaction with police. Its very seldom when they do.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> Yeah that all sounds good but its very far from the truth. There are 2 types of citizens. Criminal and law abiding. Most of internal affairs complaints come from criminals, law abiding don't get much interaction with police. Its very seldom when they do.


You claim to know a lot about the working of the police in the U.S. for a garbage man.

I have had the displeasure of dealing with quite a few police officers in several states and countries. The last bad encounter I had was when a K9 officer came into my bakery and harassed a patron in my because of the way he was parked in my parking lot. It was so bad I called his Sergeant and made a complaint about the officer harassing patrons in my store. I asked that they keep that officer away from my establishment. The encounter reminded me of Eastern Germany.


----------



## Arklatex

dsdmmat said:


> Depending on which state or communist republic you live in you may have noting to be concerned about. There are 6 "states" that the government has decided that unconstitutional laws were needed to control their populations and their henchmen have no problems enforcing these unconstitutional laws.


I keep hearing about these cops that wipe their butts with the Constitution. They all seem to be from the liberal north east. Is it ALL the cops or just a few bad apples? The media never seems to focus on any good things police do...



6811 said:


> I can answer this... You fear police if you are a criminal. Or you are a big fan of Jessie and al and you believe everything they say. If you act intelligently, they will leave you alone.


That is my experience as well. If you act like an idiot during an encounter with the law, expect them to wreck your day. Just be smart about how you deal with them and you'll be alright.


----------



## 6811

James m said:


> But I get scared is my life worth more than a shoplifters.
> OK I quit.


If you do your ride a long I will make sure you meet some fine citizens of bmore, BGF and the rest of them... If not, then you should quit because you are losing your credibility real fast


----------



## dsdmmat

Arklatex said:


> I keep hearing about these cops that wipe their butts with the Constitution. They all seem to be from the liberal north east. Is it ALL the cops or just a few bad apples? The media never seems to focus on any good things police do...
> That is my experience as well. If you act like an idiot during an encounter with the law, expect them to wreck your day. Just be smart about how you deal with them and you'll be alright.


The problem in the communist state's are that they use the State Police to enforce the laws even if the county Sheriffs do not agree with it. Most of my issues with police have been in the communist havens.

Cops around military bases tend to be real problems as well. It is a target rich environment for them and they tend to be real dicks around the 1st and the 15th of the month.

BTW family reunions tend to be really fun for my family because we have a few LE personnel in the mix. We tend not to talk about work because of it.


----------



## Harry Cline

Arklatex said:


> If you act like an idiot during an encounter with the law, expect them to wreck your day. Just be smart about how you deal with them and you'll be alright.


Yes indeed. My lesson came at 19 in Kansas City Missouri.
Needless to say I became a Yes Sir or a No Sir type of guy. (and only trust them as far as I can spit)
Best cops in America are the Highway Patrol, I can't even begin to say enough good things about them. From Illinois to Texas and beyond they are simply the best.

But in order to be a cop in any major city in America you will become jaded. It is what it is.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> The problem in the communist state's are that they use the State Police to enforce the laws even if the county Sheriffs do not agree with it. Most of my issues with police have been in the communist havens.
> 
> Cops around military bases tend to be real problems as well. It is a target rich environment for them and they tend to be real dicks around the 1st and the 15th of the month.


Yeah some agencies in rural areas do that. They write traffic tickets because they have quotas. This are the stat driven agencies. Now for the "police state" thing, that's getting old too. Cops don't just bust your door down for no reason, I know a lot claim that but again, thats the media trying to sell news. Do cops hit the wrong house? Of course they do... Do cops do illegal searches, yeah some of them do... Do cops murder people, hell yeah. But not all cops and every agency do that.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> Yeah some agencies in rural areas do that. They write traffic tickets because they have quotas. This are the stat driven agencies. Now for the "police state" thing, that's getting old too. Cops don't just bust your door down for no reason, I know a lot claim that but again, thats the media trying to sell news. Do cops hit the wrong house? Of course they do... Do cops do illegal searches, yeah some of them do... Do cops murder people, hell yeah. But not all cops and every agency do that.


I think you need to read that again, I said "State Police" not Police State there is a difference.


----------



## Arklatex

It's a shame what the liberals have done to our country.

Dsdmmat, have you considered moving?


----------



## 6811

Arklatex said:


> It's a shame what the liberals have done to our country.
> 
> Dsdmmat, have you considered moving?


I'm getting out of the northeast soon, I'm looking for a good state that won't tax retiree and has good gun laws. Specifically NFA friendly state... Any advice Ark?


----------



## dsdmmat

Arklatex said:


> It's a shame what the liberals have done to our country.
> 
> Dsdmmat, have you considered moving?


Do you mean out of the country I have defended for the past 32 years or out of the state I am currently residing in?
Where to? To paraphrase Ronny Reagan if we don't stop them here there will be no where else.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> I'm getting out of the northeast soon, I'm looking for a good state that won't tax retiree and has good gun laws. Specifically NFA friendly state... Any advice Ark?


Washington State, Florida don't tax retirements, there are a few others that don't tax retirements (or income) but some of them like the PRNY have the worst gun laws in the Country.


----------



## Arklatex

6811 said:


> I'm getting out of the northeast soon, I'm looking for a good state that won't tax retiree and has good gun laws. Specifically NFA friendly state... Any advice Ark?





dsdmmat said:


> Do you mean out of the country I have defended for the past 32 years or out of the state I am currently residing in?
> Where to? To paraphrase Ronny Reagan if we don't stop them here there will be no where else.


Come on down fellas.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> I think you need to read that again, I said "State Police" not Police State there is a difference.


Yeah I know. The state police likes to give tickets on the 1st and 15th of every month. And I did say the"police state" thing is getting old. I know the difference.


----------



## dsdmmat

Arklatex said:


> Come on down fellas.
> 
> View attachment 11214


I am looking at my options. I figure I have 5 more deployments before I can retire from my current position then I should be able buy a second home. My wife won't move from this communist place as long as her folks are alive so I will need to maintain two households for a minimum of 10 years after I retire.


----------



## 6811

Arklatex said:


> Come on down fellas.
> 
> View attachment 11214


I used to live in Dallas long time ago. Then I enlisted in the army and ended up in the northeast.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> Yeah I know. The state police likes to give tickets on the 1st and 15th of every month. And I did say the"police state" thing is getting old. I know the difference.


The communist state reference? Or the State police reference? 
The communist state reference If you cannot see as long as the progressives are in control of the legislature and governors office they will continue to tax us to death and pass unconstitutional laws then I guess you will continue to think everything is hunky dory. 
The State police reference. 
The state police are the governor's police force who will enforce the state laws when the sheriffs refuse to do so I am not sure what you are talking about. 
the PRNY is far from a free state and it closely resembles a communist country.


----------



## SARGE7402

Arklatex said:


> It's a shame what the liberals have done to our country.
> 
> Dsdmmat, have you considered moving?


Ark: No offense, but if he and Drivel aren't smart enough to move to a place where they are comfortable, then I don't think I want them moving into the farm next to mine.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> The communist state reference? Or the State police reference?
> The communist state reference If you cannot see as long as the progressives are in control of the legislature and governors office they will continue to tax us to death and pass unconstitutional laws then I guess you will continue to think everything is hunky dory.
> The State police reference.
> The state police are the governor's police force who will enforce the state laws when the sheriffs refuse to do so I am not sure what you are talking about.
> the PRNY is far from a free state and it closely resembles a communist country.


No I don't think its hunky dory. Unfortunately, people voted for those legislators who are screwing up your state And whether you like it or not, that is part of democracy. We have to vote them out to get this country back.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> No I don't think its hunky dory. Unfortunately, people voted for those legislators who are screwing up your state And whether you like it or not, that is part of democracy. We have to vote them out to get this country back.


Never going to happen in this state, too many freeloaders in NYC and Upstate The only hope for this state is NYC falls into the ocean or becomes its own state.


----------



## Arklatex

SARGE7402 said:


> Ark: No offense, but if he and Drivel aren't smart enough to move to a place where they are comfortable, then I don't think I want them moving into the farm next to mine.


I wish I could agree with you but it's not so cut and dried when you are established. With a family and friends to boot. Relocation ain't easy!


----------



## Arklatex

dsdmmat said:


> Never going to happen in this state, too many freeloaders in NYC and Upstate The only hope for this state is NYC falls into the ocean or becomes its own state.


That is the exact reason I advised bugging out. It's a lost cause up there. But I know it ain't easy as I stated above.


----------



## dsdmmat

SARGE7402 said:


> Ark: No offense, but if he and Drivel aren't smart enough to move to a place where they are comfortable, then I don't think I want them moving into the farm next to mine.


No offense taken I woudn't want to live anywhere near you either. Remember I don't like cops.


----------



## pheniox17

Reading through this latest round of posts...

Dsd dose not fear the police....
I don't fear the police

This newish generation of pigs dose not believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty (the core of our legal system)
Treats all like a criminal even if they have no record

And gets really upset if they can't pin wrong doing on you... 

They approach aggressively.... They look for a fight or a chase. . And they want you....

There are a few (a minority) that are exempt to this pattern.... Most are long on the tooth, ex military, or country boys.... That's locally here anyways....

But that dose not make me fear them... Dislike them... Well yes.... If they do their job of serve and protect... It won't be a problem... But they are shifting to more a military doctrine... Defend against the enemies of the state.....


----------



## dsdmmat

Arklatex said:


> That is the exact reason I advised bugging out. It's a lost cause up there. But I know it ain't easy as I stated above.


There is a plan, it will just take some time to execute it.


----------



## 6811

pheniox17 said:


> Reading through this latest round of posts...
> 
> Dsd dose not fear the police....
> I don't fear the police
> 
> This newish generation of pigs dose not believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty (the core of our legal system)
> Treats all like a criminal even if they have no record
> 
> And gets really upset if they can't pin wrong doing on you...
> 
> They approach aggressively.... They look for a fight or a chase. . And they want you....
> 
> There are a few (a minority) that are exempt to this pattern.... Most are long on the tooth, ex military, or country boys.... That's locally here anyways....
> 
> But that dose not make me fear them... Dislike them... Well yes.... If they do their job of serve and protect... It won't be a problem... But they are shifting to more a military doctrine... Defend against the enemies of the state.....


Where did you get this info?


----------



## SARGE7402

dsdmmat said:


> No offense taken I woudn't want to live anywhere near you either. Remember I don't like cops.


Let me tell you all a little story. On mother day this year grand ma or maybe mommy was taking a shower when little gimmy did a number two in the commode and flushed it. Not a big deal until the number two stuff was running between grandma's toes. Yep it came back up thru the tub/shower drain. Dad called the land lord to fix the problem. 10 days later old grumpy here gets a call to investigate a home unfit for human habitation. Nice letter, several calls, finally a call that the property was to be condemned before the owner - a city deputy - got the plumbing fixed.

to the city deputy I was a "bad peace officer". To the tenant - disabled - we were something else.

For every person that believes the cops are bad, there are those that see them as the only way to make life safe for them.

Same story goes for those brave 6' plus hee men that beat the snot out of their 5'2" 110 lb wives every friday. If it weren't for the police and laws that require us to lock the hee men up more women would be victims.

And just so you know Police work isn't a popularity contest. Most of us don't really care if you like us or not.


----------



## dsdmmat

SARGE7402 said:


> Let me tell you all a little story...... Most of us don't really care if you like us or not.


Want a cookie?


----------



## Harry Cline

@ SARGE,

You make a very good point. I had to call the cops, reluctantly mind you, and not cause I hate them but one learns over time from observation if you can avoid getting the police involved you are better off.
However, I was at the end of the line with the young White trash the slum lord property mangers move in above me. (these slum lord property owners always seem to live conveniently out of State) I will say my apt. is the best I've ever had it's just the people they move in here. Anyway, after the cop visit I note a uhaul a couple of weeks later. My guess is they got evicted.
I'm also guessing the property mangers got a call from someone and it wasn't me.

I note also that I'm being shown more respect now from these slum lord managers.


----------



## James m

dsdmmat said:


> Never going to happen in this state, too many freeloaders in NYC and Upstate The only hope for this state is NYC falls into the ocean or becomes its own state.


Thought about Pennsylvania? If you're in New York it would be closer. This particular area has a lot of New York and Jersey types already. Or perhaps you would like further out of the way. I believe Pennsylvania is one of the few nfa states in the Northeast. Just a suggestion.


----------



## pheniox17

6811 said:


> Where did you get this info?


Between first hand experience, and with others I deal with in other activities ... Its quite open to see it first hand....


----------



## 6811

pheniox17 said:


> Between first hand experience, and with others I deal with in other activities ... Its quite open to see it first hand....


wow, so you are saying that it is first hand experience that you get to deal with bad cops. you have to be internal affairs detective to have an experience like that. and which agency has a problem like that?


----------



## SARGE7402

dsdmmat said:


> Want a cookie?


Nah had a piece of pound cake.


----------



## SARGE7402

Harry Cline said:


> @ SARGE,
> 
> You make a very good point. I had to call the cops, reluctantly mind you, and not cause I hate them but one learns over time from observation if you can avoid getting the police involved you are better off.
> However, I was at the end of the line with the young White trash the slum lord property mangers move in above me. (these slum lord property owners always seem to live conveniently out of State) I will say my apt. is the best I've ever had it's just the people they move in here. Anyway, after the cop visit I note a uhaul a couple of weeks later. My guess is they got evicted.
> I'm also guessing the property mangers got a call from someone and it wasn't me.
> 
> I note also that I'm being shown more respect now from these slum lord managers.


We - and I work in Property Maintenance Code Enforcement - take little steps and correcting problems in the neighborhoods we serve. We have the powers of arrest if needed, but it's definitely a last resort.

We've deal with slum land lords, and slum tenants.. Minor problems to those that cause us to condemn entire apartment complexes.

No one deserves to be treated like second class citizens


----------



## dsdmmat

SARGE7402 said:


> We - and I work in Property Maintenance Code Enforcement - take little steps and correcting problems in the neighborhoods we serve. We have the powers of arrest if needed, but it's definitely a last resort.
> 
> We've deal with slum land lords, and slum tenants.. Minor problems to those that cause us to condemn entire apartment complexes.
> 
> No one deserves to be treated like second class citizens


On That Note, I can agree with you on. It happens way too much in our society from all sides, government and private.


----------



## SARGE7402

dsdmmat said:


> On That Note, I can agree with you on. It happens way too much in our society from all sides, government and private.


In today's society too many folks are just plain shit heads who care little or nothing about their fellow Americans.

That is definitely the downer side to being a peace officer, you very seldom get to see Americans at their very best.


----------



## Denton

SARGE7402 said:


> In today's society too many folks are just plain shit heads who care little or nothing about their fellow Americans.
> 
> That is definitely the downer side to being a peace officer, you very seldom get to see Americans at their very best.


And there is the dilemma.

A peace officer is one who abides by the constitution. He is not enforcing codes or regulations. He does not make contact with citizens over misdemeanors unless there is an injured party, a written, signed and sworn-to affidavit and a warrant signed by a judge, or if he witnesses a felony.

What happens when society is swarming with rogues who care little about other people? What happens when self-discipline is no longer the rule of the day? What are we to do when pop culture glorifies stupidity and selfishness, and peer pressure is now considered to be bullying and "judging?"

An example occurred at midnight, last night. I had taken two GABA capsules at 2150hrs and I went to bed at 2200hrs. My intention was to hit the road running, this morning. Guess what happened at 2358hrs. The neighborhood was levitated by some piece of dung and his mobile sound system.

Now, do I want a peace officer to wait around for me to get out of bed, determine who the idiot is, swear to an affidavit, etc., or do I want a cop to issue a citation?

We can discuss for hours about how this nation became a nation of selfish degenerates, but it doesn't change the fact that is what has happened. I do not like where we are, now, but we are at a place where cops are required to rule an undisciplined society. Sheriffs assisted by deputies along with posses mustered from the citizenry is no longer adequate for our society.

We have ignored each and every admonishment of our founding fathers. Because we ignored this one from John Adams, the good citizens need police officers and not peace officers:

"*Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other*."


----------



## dsdmmat

SARGE7402 said:


> In today's society too many folks are just plain shit heads who care little or nothing about their fellow Americans.
> 
> That is definitely the downer side to being a peace officer, you very seldom get to see Americans at their very best.


Well it also sucks for the general public who has to deal with the cops on a sporadic basis. You never know if you are going to be dealing with Dr Jeckle or Mr. Hyde.


----------



## SARGE7402

No different than dealing with the general public. When a peace officer stops to deal with a citizen, we have no idea if he is off his meds, just killed someone, robbed a bank or just a plain klutz who's done something very stupid


----------



## slewfoot

pheniox17 said:


> Reading through this latest round of posts...
> 
> Dsd dose not fear the police....
> I don't fear the police
> 
> This newish generation of pigs dose not believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty (the core of our legal system)
> Treats all like a criminal even if they have no record
> 
> And gets really upset if they can't pin wrong doing on you...
> 
> They approach aggressively.... They look for a fight or a chase. . And they want you....
> 
> There are a few (a minority) that are exempt to this pattern.... Most are long on the tooth, ex military, or country boys.... That's locally here anyways....
> 
> But that dose not make me fear them... Dislike them... Well yes.... If they do their job of serve and protect... It won't be a problem... But they are shifting to more a military doctrine... Defend against the enemies of the state.....


I have read your post several times trying to understand where you get this kind of stuff, bad dreams, smoking funny stuff, or is it just part of life down under? Please show me stats on all of the above.
It really irritates me, a man who spent 30 years as a sworn deputy sheriff and sworn deputy coroner , to see posts that have absolutely no truth in them.
Let me tell you my friend I started in corrections, went to road patrol and finally into homicide. All those years I can proudly say I never manhandled any one beyond what it took to effect an arrest, never beat anyone, never violated anyone's rights, I treated every person I came in contact with just the same as I would want to be treated.
You and your kind have no idea what I or any other law enforcement officer has been thru or what we face on a daily basis. Walk a mile in our shoes then come on here and let us see what you have to say.
I am very proud of my service to the public and do my best not to fire up when I see this crap but sometimes in my old age it gets the best of me.
That's my rant.


----------



## dsdmmat

SARGE7402 said:


> No different than dealing with the general public. When a peace officer stops to deal with a citizen, we have no idea if he is off his meds, just killed someone, robbed a bank or just a plain klutz who's done something very stupid


Also very true. So is there really is no solution to the general public police trust issues?


----------



## SARGE7402

dsdmmat said:


> Also very true. So is there really is no solution to the general public police trust issues?


It's not really a trust issue. It's a prep issue. Not knowing what a person has or has not done when you walk up to interact with them, for one to safely go home at the end of the shift you must always be vigilant. To do other wise is to leave your family open to footing the bill for a cheap funeral


----------



## dsdmmat

SARGE7402 said:


> It's not really a trust issue. It's a prep issue. Not knowing what a person has or has not done when you walk up to interact with them, for one to safely go home at the end of the shift you must always be vigilant. To do other wise is to leave your family open to footing the bill for a cheap funeral


Well it is a trust issue where the public is concerned. When the public cannot trust the public servants to treat them properly ( ie not like a human) then there will always be issues.

But we will get no where here. I will never again trust anyone with a badge, it is just the way the cookie crumbles.


----------



## slewfoot

dsdmmat;290657
I will never again trust anyone with a badge said:


> How sad.


----------



## dsdmmat

slewfoot said:


> How sad.


Yep you can thank your brothers for that, but hey that is life.


----------



## pheniox17

slewfoot said:


> I have read your post several times trying to understand where you get this kind of stuff, bad dreams, smoking funny stuff, or is it just part of life down under? Please show me stats on all of the above.
> It really irritates me, a man who spent 30 years as a sworn deputy sheriff and sworn deputy coroner , to see posts that have absolutely no truth in them.
> Let me tell you my friend I started in corrections, went to road patrol and finally into homicide. All those years I can proudly say I never manhandled any one beyond what it took to effect an arrest, never beat anyone, never violated anyone's rights, I treated every person I came in contact with just the same as I would want to be treated.
> You and your kind have no idea what I or any other law enforcement officer has been thru or what we face on a daily basis. Walk a mile in our shoes then come on here and let us see what you have to say.
> I am very proud of my service to the public and do my best not to fire up when I see this crap but sometimes in my old age it gets the best of me.
> That's my rant.


Long in the tooth = older generation....


----------



## SARGE7402

dsdmmat said:


> Well it is a trust issue where the public is concerned. When the public cannot trust the public servants to treat them properly ( ie not like a human) then there will always be issues.
> 
> But we will get no where here. I will never again trust anyone with a badge, it is just the way the cookie crumbles.


Am truely sorry to hear that.


----------



## 6811

slewfoot said:


> I have read your post several times trying to understand where you get this kind of stuff, bad dreams, smoking funny stuff, or is it just part of life down under? Please show me stats on all of the above.
> It really irritates me, a man who spent 30 years as a sworn deputy sheriff and sworn deputy coroner , to see posts that have absolutely no truth in them.
> Let me tell you my friend I started in corrections, went to road patrol and finally into homicide. All those years I can proudly say I never manhandled any one beyond what it took to effect an arrest, never beat anyone, never violated anyone's rights, I treated every person I came in contact with just the same as I would want to be treated.
> You and your kind have no idea what I or any other law enforcement officer has been thru or what we face on a daily basis. Walk a mile in our shoes then come on here and let us see what you have to say.
> I am very proud of my service to the public and do my best not to fire up when I see this crap but sometimes in my old age it gets the best of me.
> That's my rant.


Hey Slew just to let you know all this public mistrust is all BS. its not happening. I tell you where it came from.... CNN. unfortunately people are too slow to say that they need the police and they are satisfied with the job they do or it never makes it in the news. All you hear is the BS about public mistrust or how black lives matter. you know what, I'm going to say it. black lives only matter when cops has something to do with their demise. other than that, it does not matter. in Baltimore there are 100+ non fatal shootings and 37 homicides since the riot started. did anyone protest about the black on black killings? but if you watch the news, the police are bad, the police is too militarized, the police and swat this and swat that. too much BS. and the sad thing is people buy that crap, specially the young ones. protesting against the police the "in thing" nowadays. look at what these idiots are protesting for, Michael brown and freddi grey. both are scumbags and no potential to be a contributor for their community. it is sad because young people believe that crap, but in the actual neighborhoods, they do thank the police for being there.


----------



## Denton

dsdmmat said:


> Well it is a trust issue where the public is concerned. When the public cannot trust the public servants to treat them properly ( ie not like a human) then there will always be issues.
> 
> But we will get no where here. I will never again trust anyone with a badge, it is just the way the cookie crumbles.


I met a cop the other night. His name is Josh. Very personable and polite while still very much a professional. Gonna get back with him about getting a narc detection dog. I have a few extra dollars and he is trained in the current handling techniques. He is the type who sees people as humans with flaws, frailties and fears. He sees them as not being evil, but as the fallen entities that we truly are.

He wouldn't hate you or harm you for not trusting him. It'd make him sad, I think.


----------



## pheniox17

Denton said:


> I met a cop the other night. His name is Josh. Very personable and polite while still very much a professional. Gonna get back with him about getting a narc detection dog. I have a few extra dollars and he is trained in the current handling techniques. He is the type who sees people as humans with flaws, frailties and fears. He sees them as not being evil, but as the fallen entities that we truly are.
> 
> He wouldn't hate you or harm you for not trusting him. It'd make him sad, I think.


My guess country born and raised??


----------



## Denton

pheniox17 said:


> My guess country born and raised??


As a matter of fact, he grew up at a cross road half an hour up the paved road from here.


----------



## slewfoot

6811 said:


> Hey Slew just to let you know all this public mistrust is all BS. its not happening. I tell you where it came from.... CNN. unfortunately people are too slow to say that they need the police and they are satisfied with the job they do or it never makes it in the news. All you hear is the BS about public mistrust or how black lives matter. you know what, I'm going to say it. black lives only matter when cops has something to do with their demise. other than that, it does not matter. in Baltimore there are 100+ non fatal shootings and 37 homicides since the riot started. did anyone protest about the black on black killings? but if you watch the news, the police are bad, the police is too militarized, the police and swat this and swat that. too much BS. and the sad thing is people buy that crap, specially the young ones. protesting against the police the "in thing" nowadays. look at what these idiots are protesting for, Michael brown and freddi grey. both are scumbags and no potential to be a contributor for their community. it is sad because young people believe that crap, but in the actual neighborhoods, they do thank the police for being there.


Not only Cnn but a few of the others. They fall over each other to be the first to put the bs out.


----------



## slewfoot

pheniox17 said:


> Long in the tooth = older generation....


As I thought.


----------



## oldmurph58

dsdmmat said:


> Probably the same thing that will get me banned, lol.


after 2 bans at survivalist boards for "cop bashing" I stopped goin there they are a cop site not a prepper site. with all you guys sayin how great the cops are and how diver and dsdmat and others are so evil for not trustin cops on sight well this place is startin to sound like its all cops too. show some balls call a spade a spade the fbi aint gonna raid your house for saying a certain cop behaived like a asshill my brother and cousin are both cops they don't like cops either they know they sometimes lie just like everuone else cops aint saints! go on you tube type in cops behaivin badly you will find thousands of video's


----------



## pheniox17

slewfoot said:


> As I thought.


What you want to compare numbers on how things were and how things are today with policing.... Even if I got hold of the articles or the state funded statistics.. On a state funded organization.... And take that as gospel when I spend some of my time on a prepper site.... Rightio....

But a small challenge for you slew that will take a few hours (and no this dose not change my stance on the issue or influenced.... Just noticed it recently) watch a old episode of the tv show cops (early 90s will do) and look at the body language, and the crims....

Get another around mid to late 90s any will do...

Get one around 3/4 years old .....

They done a local special here over a few nights and 1 was a old episode.... The difference in interaction.... (yes cops is overly dramatized but worth those few hours) was almost a prefect example of what many of us are saying


----------



## SARGE7402

oldmurph58 said:


> after 2 bans at survivalist boards for "cop bashing" I stopped goin there they are a cop site not a prepper site. with all you guys sayin how great the cops are and how diver and dsdmat and others are so evil for not trustin cops on sight well this place is startin to sound like its all cops too. show some balls call a spade a spade the fbi aint gonna raid your house for saying a certain cop behaived like a asshill my brother and cousin are both cops they don't like cops either they know they sometimes lie just like everuone else cops aint saints! go on you tube type in cops behaivin badly you will find thousands of video's


Murph My problem with these two fine fellows is their comments that they trust no cops. That's like saying everyone from NJ is an a hole. or all blacks are on welfare


----------



## SARGE7402

pheniox17 said:


> What you want to compare numbers on how things were and how things are today with policing.... Even if I got hold of the articles or the state funded statistics.. On a state funded organization.... And take that as gospel when I spend some of my time on a prepper site.... Rightio....
> 
> But a small challenge for you slew that will take a few hours (and no this dose not change my stance on the issue or influenced.... Just noticed it recently) watch a old episode of the tv show cops (early 90s will do) and look at the body language, and the crims....
> 
> Get another around mid to late 90s any will do...
> 
> Get one around 3/4 years old .....
> 
> They done a local special here over a few nights and 1 was a old episode.... The difference in interaction.... (yes cops is overly dramatized but worth those few hours) was almost a prefect example of what many of us are saying


So TV's shows are how you draw your opinions of how all cops work.


----------



## slewfoot

pheniox17 said:


> What you want to compare numbers on how things were and how things are today with policing.... Even if I got hold of the articles or the state funded statistics.. On a state funded organization.... And take that as gospel when I spend some of my time on a prepper site.... Rightio....
> 
> But a small challenge for you slew that will take a few hours (and no this dose not change my stance on the issue or influenced.... Just noticed it recently) watch a old episode of the tv show cops (early 90s will do) and look at the body language, and the crims....
> 
> Get another around mid to late 90s any will do...
> 
> Get one around 3/4 years old .....
> 
> They done a local special here over a few nights and 1 was a old episode.... The difference in interaction.... (yes cops is overly dramatized but worth those few hours) was almost a prefect example of what many of us are saying


This is where you go to get all your expert advice????? TV ?????? You are kidding right????????


----------



## dsdmmat

SARGE7402 said:


> Murph My problem with these two fine fellows is their comments that they trust no cops. That's like saying everyone from NJ is an a hole. or all blacks are on welfare


I don't see it as a problem. Do you trust politicians? Do you trust criminals?


----------



## 6811

slewfoot said:


> This is where you go to get all your expert advice????? TV ?????? You are kidding right????????


ok slew.... now tell me, am I right with what I said on the post. all these hatred and so called mistrust is based on how these people feel. and all these feelings they are feeling was manipulated by either Hollywood or the media... CNN baby!!!. by the way another protest is brewing in Baltimore... the reason this time is going to blow you away. cops are supposedly on a slow down and not doing their jobs that's why crime went up. and when they say crime, they meant 100+ non fatal shooting and almost 40 murders since the riots. so in the beginning the protest was about the police not doing anything but harass them in their neighborhood and kill them, and now the police basically is not harassing them enough. what the news is not saying is that after the indictments of the Baltimore 6, there was mass retirements and new recruits resigned because the idea of being told to stand down while the fine citizens were allowed to throw rocks at them did not sit well with their beliefs on self preservation. in a district there maybe 6 to 8 police at one given shift, when the standard is about 21 cops on the street in each district. so for all of those who thinks that cops are bad, this is your chance to change all these bad policing and corruption. Join the Baltimore Police Department, make a difference and show the people of what you could do and how it is done. since you all know who is bad, and you think you are good. I'm sure dsdmat and pheniox can be good cops and they will follow the constitution and serve the people well. this way the people might start trusting the police again if both of you are in the force. benefits are not very good, but hey, its for the service of the community and you can carry your gun anywhere in the U.S.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> Join the Baltimore Police Department, make a difference and show the people of what you could do and how it is done. since you all know who is bad, and you think you are good. I'm sure dsdmat and pheniox can be good cops and they will follow the constitution and serve the people well. this way the people might start trusting the police again if both of you are in the force. benefits are not very good, but hey, its for the service of the community and you can carry your gun anywhere in the U.S.


You just keep on coming with the strawman arguments don't you? If I wanted to be a cop 32 years ago I would have joined the police force. I joined the Army instead I have done my duty to the country 20 years in unifrom and 12 as a deployable civilian (spent 3/4 of 2011 and 2014 in Afganistan as an Army Civilian). Go bark up another tree.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> You just keep on coming with the strawman arguments don't you? If I wanted to be a cop 32 years ago I would have joined the police force. I joined the Army instead I have done my duty to the country 20 years in unifrom and 12 as a deployable civilian (spent 3/4 of 2011 and 2014 in Afganistan as an Army Civilian). Go bark up another tree.


I'm not barking anywhere... just hoping I could recruit someone who has a potential to be the solution to all policing problems. since its obvious you know nothing about LE maybe you can follow your own advice and do the barking elsewhere.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> I'm not barking anywhere... just hoping I could recruit someone who has a potential to be the solution to all policing problems. since its obvious you know nothing about LE maybe you can follow your own advice and do the barking elsewhere.


So since I don't like cops and dont trust them based upon my own experiences and dealings with them: you think I am the one who has to come up with the solution to the problem? Uh yeah I suppose that makes a lot of sense to you.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> So since I don't like cops and dont trust them based upon my own experiences and dealings with them: you think I am the one who has to come up with the solution to the problem? Uh yeah I suppose that makes a lot of sense to you.


yes it does...


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> yes it does...


I guess you win, big guy. All hope is lost because I wont join the police forces and save the day.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> So since I don't like cops and dont trust them based upon my own experiences and dealings with them: you think I am the one who has to come up with the solution to the problem? Uh yeah I suppose that makes a lot of sense to you.


I served in the ArmyNG long time ago and I loved the military. worked with this awesome guy, lots of knowledge and the skills are top notch. we were sent everywhere and had lots of fun. the unit gave the guy lots of commendation for simply just being a good soldier. 3 years ago the guy was picked up by the FBI while doing his monthly drill. he was soliciting little boys for sex on the internet. I trusted that guy, hell I would run in a burning building to save him. so now do I not trust the Army any longer based on my personal experience with the guy? I felt that my friendship was betrayed by this one career military man and most of all he disgraced the uniform. nah, I still trust that most of our military troops are good men and women.... the best in the world


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> I served in the ArmyNG long time ago and I loved the military. worked with this awesome guy, lots of knowledge and the skills are top notch. we were sent everywhere and had lots of fun. the unit gave the guy lots of commendation for simply just being a good soldier. 3 years ago the guy was picked up by the FBI while doing his monthly drill. he was soliciting little boys for sex on the internet. I trusted that guy, hell I would run in a burning building to save him. so now do I not trust the Army any longer based on my personal experience with the guy? I felt that my friendship was betrayed by this one career military man and most of all he disgraced the uniform. nah, I still trust that most of our military troops are good men and women.... the best in the world


want a cookie?


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> want a cookie?


I got ya... I knew that it would not be long til you resort to your juvenile ways.... have a nice day Mr. mat... thanks but no thanks for the cookie, I'm not much into sweet stuff.


----------



## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> I got ya... I knew that it would not be long til you resort to your juvenile ways.... have a nice day Mr. mat... thanks but no thanks for the cookie, I'm not much into sweet stuff.


It was easier than just answering the endless strawman arguments from you. You win, Yay for you!!!


----------



## Denton

6811 said:


> I got ya... I knew that it would not be long til you resort to your juvenile ways.... have a nice day Mr. mat... thanks but no thanks for the cookie, I'm not much into sweet stuff.


Well, I will take the cookie if it is peanut butter.

By the way, I have served in the Army, the ANG as well as the A.F. Reserve. The earliest date was 1982, and the last enlistment ended in 2014. At no time or place that I served did I experience an atmosphere where such activity was condoned in the slightest. The comparison is very bad.

Even those of us who believe today's society requires more than what was expected by the founding fathers understand that in many, many cities, there is an atmosphere of a heavy hand being used when dealing with citizens. This is in no way the same as an individual of any organization soliciting sex with little boys. Unless it is NAMBLA, in which case it is to be expected.


----------



## 6811

dsdmmat said:


> It was easier than just answering the endless strawman arguments from you. You win, Yay for you!!!


not a strawman argument... just hoping you would "put your money where your mouth is"


----------



## Denton

I still want that cookie if it is peanut butter.


----------



## 6811

Denton said:


> Well, I will take the cookie if it is peanut butter.
> 
> By the way, I have served in the Army, the ANG as well as the A.F. Reserve. The earliest date was 1982, and the last enlistment ended in 2014. At no time or place that I served did I experience an atmosphere where such activity was condoned in the slightest. The comparison is very bad.
> 
> Even those of us who believe today's society requires more than what was expected by the founding fathers understand that in many, many cities, there is an atmosphere of a heavy hand being used when dealing with citizens. This is in no way the same as an individual of any organization soliciting sex with little boys. Unless it is NAMBLA, in which case it is to be expected.


I agree... In any organization we are expected to do the right thing. and if one does the wrong thing, we don't usually condemn everyone. Air Force reserve cool. my 3 kids are in the Air Guard. A10 mechanics


----------



## dsdmmat

Denton said:


> Well, I will take the cookie if it is peanut butter.
> 
> By the way, I have served in the Army, the ANG as well as the A.F. Reserve. The earliest date was 1982, and the last enlistment ended in 2014. At no time or place that I served did I experience an atmosphere where such activity was condoned in the slightest. The comparison is very bad.
> 
> Even those of us who believe today's society requires more than what was expected by the founding fathers understand that in many, many cities, there is an atmosphere of a heavy hand being used when dealing with citizens. This is in no way the same as an individual of any organization soliciting sex with little boys. Unless it is NAMBLA, in which case it is to be expected.


We served in the same uniform for aprox 20 years. Mine was all regular Army, Aviation (Above the Best). Right after my first tour in Afghanistan the Division PMO was arrested for child porn. It happens in the Army just like every other profession. Will it cause people to not trust the Army? Of course it will.

I guarentee there are a lot of folks who live near military bases who do not like/trust the military one bit based upon their experiences. 
Should someone be badgered because they don't like/trust the Military? Nope you are never going to change their mind by badgering them.


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## dsdmmat

Denton said:


> I still want that cookie if it is peanut butter.


PM me your mailing address.....:armata_PDT_25:


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## dsdmmat

6811 said:


> not a strawman argument... just hoping you would "put your money where your mouth is"


so many straws so little time.


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## Denton

6811 said:


> I agree... In any organization we are expected to do the right thing. and if one does the wrong thing, we don't usually condemn everyone. Air Force reserve cool. my 3 kids are in the Air Guard. A10 mechanics


True, we don't usually condemn everyone. The problem is when behavior is viewed as tolerable due to various flavors of reasoning. This is not the same as attempting to hook up with little boys.


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## pheniox17

SARGE7402 said:


> So TV's shows are how you draw your opinions of how all cops work.


I did try and convay a example on how things have changed.... A example not gospel... Not the foundation of my view, not the core of what I was saying or my view, but a example that takes a few hours to view that if observant could pick up on the arguments that have been portrayed by myself and others regarding police and our modern life.... And how things are changed.....

And a few hours of viewing a example beats months of digging through questionable media reports on the topic, looking through government statistics, and digging out reports that were publicly released that will be difficult to used to support the argument that the police have changed how they operate over the past few decades....

A cop show (as b grade and dramatised as the example given) is one of may long running shows that can be used as the same example to the argument given.... But remember a example....


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## Slippy

I just saw this article on the Drudge report. Is this an increasing trend in certain neighborhoods where crowds of people are attacking LEO an interfering during arrests? What do you do if you come upon something like this and see an officer make a traffic stop and a crowd of folks descend upon the officer? 
Police: Crowd attacked officer during arrest | Local News - WESH Home


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## Kauboy

Slippy said:


> I just saw this article on the Drudge report. Is this an increasing trend in certain neighborhoods where crowds of people are attacking LEO an interfering during arrests? What do you do if you come upon something like this and see an officer make a traffic stop and a crowd of folks descend upon the officer?
> Police: Crowd attacked officer during arrest | Local News - WESH Home


Tough call. Many of us would like to say that we'd step in and help the officer, but that can lead to more trouble.
The officer may not trust your intentions, or be able to discern them quickly enough to not consider you a threat.
You could easily get caught up in a brawl with a group looking to hurt you and the officer.
Many bad scenarios.
I'd likely keep my distance and watch how it played out. Officers are trained to deal with crowds. If it became obvious that he was being attacked and losing all control, a few rounds into the dirt from my sidearm would disperse the crowd quickly, and I'd help the officer up.
Aside from seeing the officer go down, or a gun drawn, I would not get involved, but rather be a good witness.(phone recording the entire interaction)


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## James m

They should just let Dog the bounty hunter take care of the nations policing.
Pulling out a gun near an officer in trouble may seem like a good idea but its a good fantasy. There are so many variables. Plus he's got his own gun anyway.


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