# More bunker questions



## Betterbeready35 (Mar 31, 2015)

As my previous post stated I said that I was building an underground bunker. How thick should I make the walls and also the ceiling? What are your thoughts on the depth of the bunker? I'm wanting to make it as impenetrable as possible.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

What type of incoming are we anticipating expecting? Heard on Fox today the Iranians are hiding their nukes thousands of feet under mountains. I suspect the deeper the better for most scenarios. If your worried about tornadoes...just make sure its under the dirt with a stout door.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Did you see my suggestion on your other thread?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I just heard the greatest idea ever... Put a air vent up though a fake bee hive next to a real bee hive


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sounds like a good way to inhale some bees. What are we missing here? I will have to tell yall the story of when my bohunk pal and I decided to go rob the honey out of his hives which some city slicker had dumped out on his Alfalfa patch a decade or so earlier and never did come back to check on his investment. It was a cold dark whiskey infested night as best can be recalled. I got bit on every square inch of skin and when the dust had settled stuck my hand down in the pocket of my bib over hauls and crazy bee stung me on the tip the finger. Those creatures are not right. Cant believe dumb yups buy that kinda stuff.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Betterbeready35 said:


> As my previous post stated I said that I was building an underground bunker. How thick should I make the walls and also the ceiling? What are your thoughts on the depth of the bunker? I'm wanting to make it as impenetrable as possible.


I'd suggest you learn about engineering, particularly underground engineering.

The shape and thickness would depend what you are using it for.

example a fallout shelter vs. a bomb shelter.

You may also consider it as a safe room as opposed to a shelter, for instance against small arms attacks. In generally though the proliferation of metal cutting devices would require you to have a very thick or very hard door (eg. tungsten etc..) as cutting devices, hydraulic rams etc&#8230; can get through most doors. So any sort of swat or marauder type group that has or knows special forces breaching tactics will make piece meal of your shelter unless you inbuilt secrecy or defenses into it.

If you want a fallout shelter, it will be wise to use earth to add fallout protection. Using things like rebar and the right type of contraction will render it more earth quake and explosion resistant. A fall out shelter will need to have other things like air purification.

You should aim to have at least 3 feet from the surface of ground, the more distance you add the better. 
http://a3c60c44c40f930691ce-1f7cabe...ackcdn.com/How-to-Build-a-Fallout-Shelter.pdf

If you aren't a P.Eng you might want to consult with one. If you know structural engineering and have skills with cad etc.. you can probably design something, but the laws of your locality will cast a light on any activities you preform. Know your local law.

--- THE ANSWER IS AS MUCH AS YOU HAVE, AS THICK AS YOU CAN MAKE IT  Just realize that if it collapses with you in it, that is what you have to deal with. Seriously consider rebar.

http://nicholsonconstruction.com/te...und Basements Final with edits - 10-14-03.pdf

Bear in mind Civil defense used a lot of basement and subway structures as "CIVIL DEFENCE" fallout shelters back in the day of civil defense. This is where dedicated command bunkers were not built. The idea of a fallout shelter is to get as far away from surfaces holding fallout as possible.

A bomb shelter on the other hand is to get as deep as you can, however most modern munitions of major nations have been developed to have ground penetration - depending on the type of munition the depth they can deliver a blast will vary. Unless you are building for armed invasion, or black swan government attacks against "domestic terrorists etc.." you likely should have to worry about bomb shelters as most smalls scale terrorists can't get enough explosives transported to do anything than blow up selected buildings. If you have a reinforced basement it should suffice if it can take the weight of the structure above it plus added explosive or blast force. a sub sub basement or sub basement would suffice if it can take earthquake force and survive the upper structure collapsing on it, and still have escape routes. As for a safe room, it is easier to build internal defenses, but don't depend on a metal door, they can be pried open in minutes to any skilled breaching team.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> Sounds like a good way to inhale some bees. What are we missing here? I will have to tell yall the story of when my bohunk pal and I decided to go rob the honey out of his hives which some city slicker had dumped out on his Alfalfa patch a decade or so earlier and never did come back to check on his investment. It was a cold dark whiskey infested night as best can be recalled. I got bit on every square inch of skin and when the dust had settled stuck my hand down in the pocket of my bib over hauls and crazy bee stung me on the tip the finger. Those creatures are not right. Cant believe dumb yups buy that kinda stuff.


were also drinking when you wrote the above?? you do not put the vent in an active hive... you make it look like a hive but sealed with filters and no inserts..come on...


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## Betterbeready35 (Mar 31, 2015)

When asking about prefab I'd feather build it my self and know every squat inch or the place in my own.


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## Betterbeready35 (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm wanton to build a multi room bunker for at least 20 people to live for 9 to 12 months. I have the general lay out of what I want it has just come down to what supplies to build it out of. I want it to be build down into the ground so that if there is fallout we would be safe. In the design I have put space aside for air and water purifiers. I was originally thing the shipping containers but now I'm leaning to concrete cinder blocks reinforcerd by rebar. I ways also thinking about adding at least 3ft of concrete to the out side to better fortifie the walls. Is that enough? Or no. I want to install a blast door at the main entrance.


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## Big Country1 (Feb 10, 2014)

OH, OH, OH............. Pick me, Pick me!!!!!

Alright, thanks now I only have 1 question, (well more than one but all related):

If SHTF, And its that bad on the surface of earth, Why would you want to live in the ground? Are you a gopher? How long can one live underground before going insane?

Don't get me wrong, if a Stormshelter is what your looking for I completely understand. But with that your not going to be living in it for 2 years either. If its a Bomb Shelter, and your planning on bugging in your "underground fortress" then How bad are things really going to be, that your going to need to worry about a massive bomb blowing its top, right above your "shelter?"

And one last thing to remember.... You will eventually have too come to the surface.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

"
If SHTF, And its that bad on the surface of earth, Why would you want to live in the ground? Are you a gopher? How long can one live underground before going insane?"

Build it none the less as if you would be living in it a long time and your short times will be better. You will also be better prepared for long hauls that may come for one cause or another. But being able to get underground some is a valuable thing and if it ever did go flat awhile, make a great cellar/cider/grow whatever.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I just heard the greatest idea ever... Put a air vent up though a fake bee hive next to a real bee hive
> 
> View attachment 10530


This gives you 1) cover and 2) BEES! Bees are good!


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I can't really wrap my head around what you are trying to do.

Are you worried about fallout? If so, DEEP is important but actual impact-resistance is not so much.

Are you thinking of building something that can withstand bunker-buster bombs? If so, then don't bother. If somebody has precision guided anti-bunker munitions and wants you dead, unless you build in the middle of a granite mountain, don't bother. You are toast.

Are you thinking raider attacks? If so, then the most important part is your entry/exit and concealing what you are doing. Hide with pride. 

Without knowing what you are most concerned about, it's hard to give any kind of specific thoughts on your project.


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## Big Country1 (Feb 10, 2014)

oddapple said:


> "
> If SHTF, And its that bad on the surface of earth, Why would you want to live in the ground? Are you a gopher? How long can one live underground before going insane?"
> 
> Build it none the less as if you would be living in it a long time and your short times will be better. You will also be better prepared for long hauls that may come for one cause or another. But being able to get underground some is a valuable thing and if it ever did go flat awhile, make a great cellar/cider/grow whatever.


Trust me I understand that for a short term event, underground would be a good option. but I don't see how living underground could be healthy for a long term event. Mentally, and physically. I mean the world just went to hell in a hand basket, and you are in your gopher hole. Your already in a "panic" state, and now your going to go under ground? Doesn't sound like a good option for long term, but that's my opinion.

My other thing would be your worried about a bunker buster type bomb? If someone knows your little hole in the ground is there, they will want it as well for the same reasons you do. Who are you thinking is going to bomb you? The military? I just don't see it, IMO The tinfoil is starting to cut the circulation off to someone's brain. I tend to run into this problem from time too time, Getting a fresh roll, and refitting it to said head will help with this problem. And Good luck with the INPENATRABLE bunker. :rulaiz:


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

First, you must realize, there is no such thing as impenetrable. You need to get in and out so there are ways for others to get in and out.

For a long stay you need a lot of area for each person to live. You will need recreational and exercise areas and a good supply of nutritious food with added vitamin D which you won't be getting without the sun. Air filters and replacement filters for your air supply and a gravity fed well for your water supply. It will take little to heat the area because you will only have to heat the air from 55F up to the more comfortable 68F of room temperature. The down side is you will be heating more air because it will have to be circulated 24/7-365.

You can't produce food so all your food will have to be stored - than can be a problem in space and to keep people (within your group) from taking more than they really need. You will have to mimic the light and dark stages of the solar day in order to maintain your health so lighting is going to require electricity and that means a way to generate it for the period of time you plan to be under ground.

You need to consult with engineers to get good answers to all your questions.

If I was building such a structure I figure 100 pounds per each two feet of depth for dry dirt and double that for wet dirt. That means your walls and ceiling have to support 1600 pounds per square foot at a minimum. (figuring on a 16 foot depth) I would want to build in at least a 50% safety margin which would require a structure that would support 2400 pounds per square foot. In a semi-spherical structure I would want at least 4 feet of steel reinforced waterproof concrete. In a flat type structure you would need 3 or 4 foot I beams with the concrete poured around them in 40 foot span. (these numbers are just "off the top of my head" figures) You need to consult an engineer to get good information. A 50 x 50 foot flat roof would be supporting roughly 6 million pounds of earth on top of it.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

If you are serious, then spend the money and buy a copy of *Principles of Protection*. The book is written by an authority on bunkers (his company builds bunkers for the government and other rich people.) He has tables on fallout, wall thickness, and even plans for the air-pressure valve you will need to install in the air shafts to keep from being killed by rapid depressurization.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

What are you trying to duplicate? NORAD!


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Norad, but with more hot chicks.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Betterbeready35 said:


> As my previous post stated I said that I was building an underground bunker. How thick should I make the walls and also the ceiling? What are your thoughts on the depth of the bunker? I'm wanting to make it as impenetrable as possible.


Welcome:

If you want some details on building a bunker I'd go to us joint services manuals and scroll down til you get to FM 5-103 dated 1985. A bit dated but for those with no engineering experience it's a good starting place


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