# Government "allowing citizens to have arms"



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Ok, since this was such a hot topic, on the mall shooting thread, I wanna restart it here. 
I have some questions for all the Concieled carry permit people here.
How much information is needed to complete the task(I know it probabaly varies state by state, so just what YOUR experience was).
How much did it cost?
Are there "renewal fees"? 
How many years is it?
Now, some hypotheticals.
If, tommorrow, it was a felony to CC, even thou you had the permit, would you?
Would your CC permit "shine a light" on you during a bad scenerio? (NEW ORLEANS?)
Do you register what gun you carry? My fiance is armed guard level 3, and she has to certify withg and carry the same weapon.
I thought registration lead to confiscation.
I hear that ths CC class is harder to pass than most police force qualifications (shooting accuratley wise)?
Now, my thoughts..
My research shows that conceiled carry laws became law after slavery ended, to justify "searching colored people", who may have a gun. And another explanation is after the "tammanny" stuff which had to do with unions?
More questions to follow.


----------



## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Deebo said:


> How much information is needed to complete the task(I know it probabaly varies state by state, so just what YOUR experience was).


At the time we got ours, it was handled on a county by county basis. In our case, they did not require much of anything. Just fill out a form with basic demographic information, present the certificate that we completed the class and a few weeks later the card showed up in the mail.



Deebo said:


> How much did it cost?


I do not remember exactly. It was either $50 or $75.



Deebo said:


> Are there "renewal fees"?
> How many years is it?


In Minnesota you have to reapply every 5 years. Each time, it is like you are getting it for the first time again.



Deebo said:


> If, tommorrow, it was a felony to CC, even thou you had the permit, would you?


Depending on where I was going, yes. As liberal as Minnesota is, most of the Sheriffs outside of Minneapolis and St Paul proper are pretty strong 2nd Amendment types. From a couple conversations with the Sheriff of the county where we live now, the only reason he enforces the current CCW laws is because it is now so easy to get a permit. We go into Minneapolis and St Paul so rarely, it would not be much of a change to avoid them entirely.



Deebo said:


> Would your CC permit "shine a light" on you during a bad scenerio? (NEW ORLEANS?)


Probably. I do not care about that too much. I have no intention of handing over my guns regardless of the situation.



Deebo said:


> Do you register what gun you carry? My fiance is armed guard level 3, and she has to certify withg and carry the same weapon.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I have a few pistols that I carry. Two are registered, one is not. If I take one with me on a business trip, I ALWAYS carry one that is registered. It is too much hassle with the airlines otherwise.



Deebo said:


> I thought registration lead to confiscation.


Not so far, but as Ted Kennedy would say: "We'll drive off that bridge when we come to it."



Deebo said:


> I hear that ths CC class is harder to pass than most police force qualifications (shooting accuratley wise)?


Boy I hope not... I thought qualification was almost too easy to be useful in determining whether you are capable shooter.



Deebo said:


> Now, my thoughts..
> My research shows that conceiled carry laws became law after slavery ended, to justify "searching colored people", who may have a gun. And another explanation is after the "tammanny" stuff which had to do with unions?
> More questions to follow.


I really never gave it much thought until this evening. I have always just figured that sitting through a one-day dumb-dumb class, firing 50 rounds at targets at various distances and paying my fee was a small price to pay to avoid the headaches of carrying a pistol without a permit. But I will say that one of the Resister posts on the other thread has given me far too much to consider in a short time. I'll get back to you on it.


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Excellent answers. thank you.


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Oh, how much was "the class?" 
Who operated the class?
If tommorrow, someone "from the governement" came to your house and said that "during a recent Doctors questioning during your physical, you replied yes to feeling of "whatever", and now we are revoking your permit, what is the recourse?
If you get caught carrying conceiled in a state that doesn't have "reciprosity", couldn't that result in a felony?


----------



## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Oh, how much was "the class?"


It was around $100 per person.



Deebo said:


> Who operated the class?


It was an individual that was NRA certified. I assume he also had to have some accreditation from the state?



Deebo said:


> If tommorrow, someone "from the governement" came to your house and said that "during a recent Doctors questioning during your physical, you replied yes to feeling of "whatever", and now we are revoking your permit, what is the recourse?


At least for now, that is not possible in Minnesota. We became a "shall issue" state a few years back. They can only revoke it if I commit a crime or get involuntarily committed to a mental institution. If that should change, then I guess I will be putting a few more of my attorney's kids through college.



Deebo said:


> If you get caught carrying conceiled in a state that doesn't have "reciprosity", couldn't that result in a felony?


Speeding tickets aside, I am very careful to follow the laws. I am not at the point where I believe open rebellion serves any meaningful purpose. In fact right now, I think it does more harm to our cause than good.


----------



## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

I think my original permit was $75 here in Florida. Didn't have to take a firearms course as I'm prior military. My permit was for 5 years. No restriction on what I carry as long as its concealed.


----------



## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

In Texas you must take the class, which is from a certified instructor. I think they can charge whatever they want but it's usually around $65 plus the cost of ammo. The license cost I'm not sure, for Vets it's only like $25 every 5 years. You can qualify with whatever you want so long as it's .380 or above and can be a revolver or a semi auto. There are no restrictions on what you carry once qualified.

What do you mean by registered? In Texas I don't have to 'register" any firearm beyond a 4473 if purchased from an ffl.


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

My fiance is "qualified" with her XD .40, and thats supposedly the only weapon she can "on duty carry", but granted that it is a work situation.
I ask becouse the old saying was "we dont wanna know what guns you have, just that your ok to have them". Supposedly, when you purchase a firearm from an ffl, the information stays with the ffl?


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Doing the little bit of digging, seeing when laws were enacted, I am sure I have upped my TSA rating.


----------



## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

A 4473 is supposed to stay with the ffl for as long as the ffl holds his license. At such a time the ffl no longer holds the license, or sells/closes his business, all of his 4473's are sent to the government and warehoused.

The question is, are these records then digitalized and databased, or are they truly entombed in a massive government warehouse never to be seen again?


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Exactly my point. I have learned so much lately, privacy act of 1974, tsa ratings, no knock warrants, anal cavity searches, DHS checkpoints. I JUST CANT SEE WHY ANYONE WOULD TRUST OUR CURRENT GOVERNMENT.


----------



## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

in Pennsylvania it cost $21.00 for a 5 year CCW permit. it takes about a week to get one from the sherrif's office. you have to give name address and Drivers license and they take your photo for the CCW card. open carry is permitted in york county,but the sherrif's office suggest just to get CCW so that you will be covered all the way around. obviously, a background check will be done before getting issued a CCW card. thats pretty much it for Pennsylvania CCW permit. no BS, no hastle... by the way, you dont have to register a weapon or you have to use a certain weapon while carrying concealed or open carry. CCW allows you, the person, to carry a weapon. you dont have to have a specific weapon you could carry. Unlike the police departments, their officers are limited to carry only the authorized weapon they have qualified on.


----------



## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Ok, since this was such a hot topic, on the mall shooting thread, I wanna restart it here.
> I have some questions for all the Concieled carry permit people here.
> How much information is needed to complete the task(I know it probabaly varies state by state, so just what YOUR experience was).
> *1.* How much did it cost?
> ...


1. $50
2. $50
3. 5 years
4. Not sure.
5. Maybe, i am not sure if they ran checks to see if people actually had a permit or just confiscated guns in that scenario. Either way i would not be giving them up.
6. No registration
7. In VA there is no requirement (to my knowledge) fire a gun to obtain a Concealed Handgun Permit. You can take a course in a classroom setting or on the internet. If you are Military you don't even have to take a safety course. All you do is fill out the form, show them your ID, pay your $50 and receive your permit in about 3 weeks via mail.

If and when i travel through a state with no reciprocity i carry it in the appropriate manner prescribed by law. (i.e in a closed or locked container outside of my reach)


----------



## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Deebo said:


> Ok, since this was such a hot topic, on the mall shooting thread, I wanna restart it here.
> I have some questions for all the Concieled carry permit people here.
> How much information is needed to complete the task(I know it probabaly varies state by state, so just what YOUR experience was).
> How much did it cost?
> ...


In NC we must complete an 8 hour course and a shooting component. The class contents are regulated by the state and the shooting component has minimum standards. Then we complete an application with our local sheriff, including finger prints. Cost of the class runs $75-$100 and the application is $80. The permit is good for 5 years and there are renewal fees. The permit is also tied to our driver licenses.
To answer the hypothetical, I'll take what ever steps I deem necessary to protect myself and my family.
I will never register a gun. Period.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I just finished that class for CC in Illinois last week. The requirement is for two eight hour classes, one eight hour class if you are prior military with an Honorable Discharge or are a former LEO with a training certificate. The cost if you take both classes is $250, and $150 if you only take the 2nd. After the class you have to qualify with a pistol, not a specific one that will be the only one you can carry. As of now, all you have to do is qualify with any pistol. The actually qualification is very easy IMO. The target is a B-57 silhouette and all rounds have to be inside of the 7 ring. You fire 10 rounds from 5 yards, 10 from 7 yards, and 10 from 10 yards, and 80% (21 out 30) have to hit inside the 7 ring. I am not sure if that is more difficult then what is required for the LEOs, but I did see some of the local police qualifying and I CAN say that it is not any harder. Then you have to pay another $150 for the actual permit which is good for 4 years. So if you need both classes it will cost you a total of $400. As for letting everyone know that you own a firearm, there is a law in Illinois requiring that if you own or use a firearm, or buy ammunition, you have to have a Firearms Owner Identification Card (FOID). If you are a resident of Illinois, it is illegal for you to even HANDLE a firearm. There are some gun stores that will not even allow you to enter them unless you show them your foid card.


----------



## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Florida issues a Concealed weapon permit, you can carry any legal weapon. Do not have to register the weapon.
If you are prior military, just send a copy of your DD214 along with the required paperwork. No class or "range" time.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

The Government "Allowing citizens to have arms"
Big problem there, That implies that our rights come from the Government 
The truth is the main purpose of the Government is to make sure we are able to keep our rights. (in which they fail miserably)
The rights of the Government come from the people. But that seems to have been forgotten.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

In WI your hunters safety course is good enough. Prior military service or take a class. No registration of firearm, no range time and it's good for 5 years.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

tango said:


> Florida issues a Concealed weapon permit, you can carry any legal weapon. Do not have to register the weapon.
> If you are prior military, just send a copy of your DD214 along with the required paperwork. No class or "range" time.


This is the way it works in Florida. ^^^
In Florida it is a Concealed Weapon Or Firearm License. It covers not only guns, but knives, etc. Some states don't cover knives.
As a vet my DD-214 was sufficient to show I knew how to operate a firearm. If you are not a vet a course is required, done by a qualified instructor, average cost $35 and up. I don't believe there is a requirement to actually fire a weapon.
I have also taken additional tactics/weapon courses from our local county LEO training officers - this would have qualified me as well.
The actual licensing is done through the Department of Agriculture and the application can be done by mail or at a regional office. I went to the local office, had to fill out a multipage form on the computer, have fingerprints and a mug shot taken and go through an instant background check. I passed, paid the fee ($117 for the initial license plus application fee) and in about 2 weeks my license came in the mail. It is good for 7 years.
But while most other states recognize my license, it is up to me to know the rules in, say, North Carolina. Not all states are as liberal with their concealed WEAPON laws as Florida. Especially with knives. And where guns are not allowed.
I go across the border into Georgia every day and I'm always packing heat. No problem.


----------



## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

tango said:


> Florida issues a Concealed weapon permit, you can carry any legal weapon. Do not have to register the weapon.
> If you are prior military, just send a copy of your DD214 along with the required paperwork. No class or "range" time.


For former military, you still have to get finger printed at local LEO & send two pics of yourself (passport size) with the form & DD214 copy. Biggest cost for us is we have to pay for a FBI backround check.
BTW, I called & ask that finding an old DD214 might take some time so would a copy of my retired military ID work & they said sure.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Ohio says take a 12 hour class, . . . finish up with 2 hours range time, . . . when I took mine, it was put "most" of your weapon load into a 9 inch white paper plate at 7 feet, or something thereabouts.

Nobody gets a pass, . . . military, . . . boy scouts, . . . whatever, . . . take the course. They range anywhere from $75 to $150, . . . sometimes staggered, . . . sometimes all in one sitting.

It cost $40, . . . good for 4 years. First renewal went up to $50, . . . but good for 5 years.

The only caveat I have found to the Ohio CHL, . . . it specifies on the back that the bearer may carry "A" weapon. I asked a ranking deputy sheriff about it, . . . was told in no uncertain terms that it meant one weapon, . . . no backup, . . . no backup for the backup, etc.

Most of the class was defining and determining the when/if a person should unholster/shoot. Also got a lot of safety reminders from one old cop who dropped his piece one day in the john, . . . it went off, . . . grazed one of his lower cheeks, . . . we all got a laugh out of that.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

HuntingHawk said:


> For former military, you still have to get finger printed at local LEO & send two pics of yourself (passport size) with the form & DD214 copy. Biggest cost for us is we have to pay for a FBI backround check.
> BTW, I called & ask that finding an old DD214 might take some time so would a copy of my retired military ID work & they said sure.


If I remember correctly the application said that a copy of an honorable discharge from the military would work as well.
But every vet should have a bunch of photocopies of their DD-214 for a variety of reasons.


----------



## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

In Michigan, we have what is called a CPL,(concealed pistol license).you have to take a minimum of 8 hours training,(NRA personal protection in the home course at least),and there are other levels of training to be had here ranging from $100.00 up,a CPL application from the county where you live (after course completion),$105.00 in fees,a passport quality picture(most counties can do this for you for an additional $10.00),and prints.you CPL is good for 5 years and you do not have to re-take a course to renew,(the re-new form asks though if you have had 8 hours of instruction before renewal though, and you say yes because you have practiced anyway right?).you can carry anywhere except,federal bldgs,copshops,hospital etc,your MI. CPL is good for any pistol you own.although,registration of handguns is required,I would rather have my CPL than not be able to carry and protect myself.I wish we and the whole US had constitutional carry though.


----------



## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

I carry as a retired peace officer. This required a $25.00 class no fee from the county. The qualification was nothing major and I'm good what ever state I am in. I do have to follow that states laws so before crossing state lines I study up on prohibitions particular that jurisdiction, signs having force of law etc. I must qualify annually with whatever type of arm I wish to carry pistol or revolver in my case both. This is what Nevada requires depending on your location YMMV.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

In Washington state, It has been a long time since I got my first permit - but it was $5 for finger-printing and $25 for the permit. (I think) The last time I renewed it was $35? plus a fingerprint charge of $5. Good for five years, no classes, and no photos. The reason I had to have finger-printing was I moved to a new county in the same state. There is a waiting period to go through the background check of about a week. The concealed pistol permit is mailed to your home. (no PO Boxes it has to be the address of your residence) You don't report what, if any, gun you will carry and it covers any pistol concealed. You don't need a permit to open carry.


----------



## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Exactly my point. I have learned so much lately, privacy act of 1974, tsa ratings, no knock warrants, anal cavity searches, DHS checkpoints. I JUST CANT SEE WHY ANYONE WOULD TRUST OUR CURRENT GOVERNMENT.


I dont
As to the questions in your original post.
Gotta love Arizona.
Cops tend to not be able to shoot for shit.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Arizona Infidel said:


> I dont
> As to the questions in your original post.
> Gotta love Arizona.
> Cops tend to not be able to shoot for shit.


Trust me, there are more places where the typical LEO can't shoot well. I was a member of the Seattle Police range and I watched the cops do their 50 rounds a month. Most were lucky to get them on the 2x2 foot backer at 25 yards.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

IMO, the government should have nothing to say about who has guns and the Constitution =(Bill of rights says I can bear arms already) so we don't need a cc permit/license. The government does not give / grant rights, period.

And I/we shouldn't have to "pay" for any right.


----------



## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

Deebo said:


> Ok, since this was such a hot topic, on the mall shooting thread, I wanna restart it here.
> I have some questions for all the Concieled carry permit people here.
> How much information is needed to complete the task(I know it probabaly varies state by state, so just what YOUR experience was).


Basically in NY you need to provide a reason why you want it and 4 references who have to fill out a form and have it notarized. You then need to submit finger prints and a background check is done.


Deebo said:


> How much did it cost?


I think the total cost with the fingerprinting was around $100


Deebo said:


> Are there "renewal fees"?


There wasn't until the pistol permit holders in NY state were given the shaft by King Cuomo. Permits were good until revoked or death whichever came first.


Deebo said:


> How many years is it?


Permits now need to be renewed every 5 years and I don't remember what the renewal fee is
Now, some hypotheticals.


Deebo said:


> If, tommorrow, it was a felony to CC, even thou you had the permit, would you?


Under the advice of counsel I am invoking my fifth amendment rights. (I will tell you that my family's safety comes before any law)


Deebo said:


> Would your CC permit "shine a light" on you during a bad scenerio? (NEW ORLEANS?)


I think generally law enforcement around here looks pretty favorably at permit holders, I don't really see this as an issue. I think everyone got a real wake up call with Katrina, I doubt law enforcement will be collecting firearms of law abiding citizens if the SHTF but I could be wrong. They won't get mine I can tell you that.


Deebo said:


> Do you register what gun you carry? My fiance is armed guard level 3, and she has to certify withg and carry the same weapon.


New York is a bit different than most other states, you need a permit to own a handgun of any sort here and all handguns must be listed on your permit.


Deebo said:


> I thought registration lead to confiscation.


It does but if you live in New York this is the price you pay, I'm fairly certain there won't be any confiscation in the upstate communities since the country boys will fight back.


Deebo said:


> I hear that ths CC class is harder to pass than most police force qualifications (shooting accuratley wise)?


I'm the wrong guy to ask about this, do to my line of work I didn't need to take a class. I get 16hrs of firearms training every year which is a whole lot more than the 6hr class they used to require to obtain the permit here. NY issues 2 types of permits to ordinary citizens either full carry or premise permits (I think they call the premise permits something else now but it's the same thing). Basically if you have a premise permit you can only carry while hunting, camping or back and forth to the range, gunsmith, FFL, etc. My county only used to issue full carry permits but now I understand they've changed things a bit and now you have to go before a judge and unless you take a dedicated CC class you only get a premise permit. By the way permits issued outside of NYC are no good inside NYC although I have been told you can go down to police plaza and get a rider to carry in NYC but I have never tried it.

-Infidel


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

ekim said:


> IMO, the government should have nothing to say about who has guns and the Constitution =(Bill of rights says I can bear arms already) so we don't need a cc permit/license. The government does not give / grant rights, period.
> 
> And I/we shouldn't have to "pay" for any right.


My point exactly. They are selling you something you already have, and adding lots of stipulations with it.


----------



## jeff70 (Jan 29, 2014)

Utah is pretty simple, 4 hour class, then you turn your app, photo, and fingerprints into BCI, along with a $65 fee. if all goes well within 60 days you have your permit. With permit you can conceal or open carry a Loaded firearm, You don't have to qualify with a certain gun, and the permit is good for 5 years and the $15 to renew.
Vehicle carry is legal without a permit, and open carry is also legal without permit as long as there isn't a round in the firing position. 
I'm not to worried about my guns being taken as they were all lost in a boating accident a few years ago.


----------



## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

$35 or $40 bucks. They take your fingerprints (unless it's a renewal), you answer basically the same questions as you do when buying a gun at the gun store. I would not conceal carry if it was against the law, because I am a law abiding gun owner. We're not required to demonstrate firearm proficiency here because our state constitution says "shall not be infringed" and the courts uphold it so we are a "shall issue state". And in our state, anytime you purchase a handgun using your concealed pistol permit, it is listed with the agency that issued your permit via Dept. of Licensing. Any firearm you carry concealed must be on that list.


----------



## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

It's good in Florida for 7 yrs now I believe..


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

A lawful (de jure) government in a constitutional Republic has no authority to issue me a license for an act that I have a Right to do. Compliance with any such requirements to get a permit or a license takes me out of the jurisdiction of the constitutional Republic and puts me under the jurisdiction of dictators.

"_Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God"_ Thomas Jefferson


----------



## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

These are MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!!


----------



## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

South Carolina



> How much did it cost?


 class = $80, extortion fee = $40



> Are there "renewal fees"?


 $50



> How many years is it?


 4 years



> Now, some hypotheticals.





> If, tommorrow, it was a felony to CC, even thou you had the permit, would you?


 No comment.



> Would your CC permit "shine a light" on you during a bad scenerio? (NEW ORLEANS?)


 don't know.



> Do you register what gun you carry? My fiance is armed guard level 3, and she has to certify withg and carry the same weapon.


 some states do, SC does not. 



> I thought registration lead to confiscation.


 They will try.



> I hear that ths CC class is harder to pass than most police force qualifications (shooting accuratley wise)?


 Our class was ridiculous easy, simply a hoop you have to jump so the state can collect it's fee and put you on a list.

This is where I took the class.
Aerotech Firearms Inc. Instructors


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Resister said:


> A lawful (de jure) government in a constitutional Republic has no authority to issue me a license for an act that I have a Right to do. Compliance with any such requirements to get a permit or a license takes me out of the jurisdiction of the constitutional Republic and puts me under the jurisdiction of dictators.
> 
> "_Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God"_ Thomas Jefferson


So, strap on a .45 and go down to the nearest federal courthouse and tell it to the judge. I'm sure he'll see your side of things.:-D


----------



## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

The Resister said:


> A lawful (de jure) government in a constitutional Republic has no authority to issue me a license for an act that I have a Right to do. Compliance with any such requirements to get a permit or a license takes me out of the jurisdiction of the constitutional Republic and puts me under the jurisdiction of dictators.


Says the guy who lives in a state with constitutional carry.

My state doesn't have speed limits on the roads, but all the rest of you are gay because you obey your speed limit signs. Not the best analogy, but I'm sure y'all can see where I'm going with that.


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

dannydefense said:


> Says the guy who lives in a state with constitutional carry.
> 
> My state doesn't have speed limits on the roads, but all the rest of you are gay because you obey your speed limit signs. Not the best analogy, but I'm sure y'all can see where I'm going with that.


You know, for a wannabe American with a big mouth, you've shown nothing but stupidity. You know, I am willing to do exactly what RPD suggests if the circumstances dictate... Oh, have done it BTW:

Militia movement will be packing heat at gun rally on the Potomac


----------



## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

The Resister said:


> You know, for a wannabe American with a big mouth, you've shown nothing but stupidity. You know, I am willing to do exactly what RPD suggests if the circumstances dictate... Oh, have done it BTW:


That hurts me big guy, right here. Hurts.

Notice how he didn't deny it, again?


----------



## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

dannydefense said:


> That hurts me big guy, right here. Hurts.
> 
> Notice how he didn't deny it, again?


So, now you want an apology because we did what you cannot or will not do??? Your dumb a55 thinks that I have not challenged anti - gun laws. Of course, you're wrong. You think I won't challenge gun laws with passive resistance and / or civil disobedience? You got to be kidding... yourself and others as well.

Dude, I carried a firearm in my car for over 20 years when employers could tell you that you could not have a weapon in your car while on company property. That law was not changed until just a few years ago. You see, you delight in trying to make people think that I would advocate a position that I can not or will not do myself. The proven history of the past proves you wrong. And if you weren't so sorry that you might do likewise, I'd come to your state (at your request) and fight alongside you even though I can't stand you as a person.


----------



## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

The Resister said:


> So, now you want an apology because we did what you cannot or will not do???


Where did I ask for an apology? Your avoidance skills are legendary.


----------



## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

just from what i have read i would say the less the gov. knows about your guns the better off you are in an emergency situation here in mass i had a little heart attack in june and the cop who came to rubber neck saw 2 muzzleloaders with trigger locks in my home, and confiscated them. my wife told him muzzle loaders dont need a gun permit, but he said "no permit, no gun" they did have to give them back, but it was a big hassle. imagine if it was a pistol? here in mass i would be in jail.


----------



## kevin108 (Jan 16, 2014)

Deebo said:


> *How much information is needed to complete the task?*
> In VA I had to fill out a lengthy form and get fingerprinted then wait 45 days for the sheriff and a judge to approve it.
> 
> *How much did it cost?*
> ...


12345


----------

