# The Worthless Education



## Lady_Husker

I graduated with my bachelor's of psychology back in May. I spent five years and thousands of dollars while being under the impression it would be worth the investment. From the time I was a young child, my family and the school systems told me that a college education is the only way to make a good living when you lack trade skills. So here I sit, three months after graduating with hardly any money, no job, and loan debt. Despite putting in dozens and dozens of applications for everything from retail to government jobs, I remain unemployed even in a red state that has relatively low unemployment.

I don't regret learning because I love learning, but if I had known that my B.A. was going to be so useless, I would have followed my dreams. Everyone told me I could never make a good living doing what I wanted to do so I picked the next best thing. So to all the preppers on here who are considering pursuing higher education, don't pick a field you think you will be successful in...pick a field you will love. You may not have a job at the end of it, but at least you will not have wasted your time and money on something you didn't care much for.

This is the price that is being paid for the crappy economy that our government has made.


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## Slippy

The Federal Government is responsible for raising the cost of college education while artificially "socially" promoting many people into college who shouldn't be there in the first place. It was the same scam that they played on the Housing Market, getting people loans for homes they couldn't afford. I honestly feel for your generation.

I'm curious, what is your degree major?


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## James m

I'm going back to college next week. I have no problem lining up real jobs in the IT industry. I have a problem getting a college job. I put out 140 applications and even KFC and Burger King wouldn't hire me, but I have worked for a fortune 500 pharmaceutical company in-between college. I need something that will work with college hours. I was told that if you don't have a job your job is finding a job. Crank out those applications. There's always loan deferment.


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## Lady_Husker

Slippy said:


> The Federal Government is responsible for raising the cost of college education while artificially "socially" promoting many people into college who shouldn't be there in the first place. It was the same scam that they played on the Housing Market, getting people loans for homes they couldn't afford. I honestly feel for your generation.
> 
> I'm curious, what is your degree major?


I majored in psychology and minored in Environment Studies. I wanted to major in Environmental Studies because that is the pathway to a masters and P.h.D. in paleontology. I love my dinos <3


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## Slippy

Lady_Husker said:


> I majored in psychology and minored in Environment Studies. I wanted to major in Environmental Studies because that is the pathway to a masters and P.h.D. in paleontology. I love my dinos <3


Lady Husker,

I like you, I really do, but I cannot help myself so bear with me OK? Please don't get mad.

First... dinosaurs have not been around for, what, like a thousand years or so?

Second...Psychology...Really?

And C...Environment Science? What in the world is that?

Thoughts?...and please stay with me. I want to help.

Your new friend,

Slippy

PS Let us know if we can help.


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## Lady_Husker

Slippy said:


> Lady Husker,
> 
> I like you, I really do, but I cannot help myself so bear with me OK? Please don't get mad.
> 
> First... dinosaurs have not been around for, what, like a thousand years or so?
> 
> Second...Psychology...Really?
> 
> And C...Environment Science? What in the world is that?
> 
> Thoughts?...and please stay with me. I want to help.
> 
> Your new friend,
> 
> Slippy


Hey, I made a friend! Mommy would be so proud :glee:

First, I am a Christian but I believe in deep time. It is a long, detailed thought process that I don't feel like typing here lol

Second, yes, really. The best way to fight an enemy is to understand the enemy. You would not combat a person who is merely mentally ill the same way you would a terrorist who is so far beyond help that a bullet is all you can do.

And Environmental Studies is the new liberal field aimed at tricking gullible youth into blindly following the climate change and EPA crowd. Unfortunately, they grouped geology under this field and geology is key to obtaining a higher degree specialized for paleontology. So many hoops in the education system all designed to warp the minds of American youth. Sadly, it is working all too well.


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## keith9365

I have a few friends with psychology degrees. For the most part you have to have a masters in psychology to get a job in it.


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## Lady_Husker

keith9365 said:


> I have a few friends with psychology degrees. For the most part you have to have a masters in psychology to get a job in it.


Which my family and professors conveniently forget to mention when I decided to major in it. I have full intentions of getting my P.h.D. at some point just because I don't quit. What I have seen happen is that the rising minimum wage has caused a dramatic decrease in jobs available to those who have some education and some skills but aren't quite professional yet. The middle step in the job chain is almost non-existent. When my aunt got her B.A., she had people almost begging for her to work for them...in the course of just ten years, this has taken a complete 180 degree turn. And minimum wage jobs won't take people with degrees because of the over qualification and therefore expectancy for higher wage.


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## Slippy

Lady_Husker said:


> Hey, I made a friend! Mommy would be so proud :glee:
> 
> First, I am a Christian but I believe in deep time. It is a long, detailed thought process that I don't feel like typing here lol
> 
> Second, yes, really. The best way to fight an enemy is to understand the enemy. You would not combat a person who is merely mentally ill the same way you would a terrorist who is so far beyond help that a bullet is all you can do.
> 
> And Environmental Studies is the new liberal field aimed at tricking gullible youth into blindly following the climate change and EPA crowd. Unfortunately, they grouped geology under this field and geology is key to obtaining a higher degree specialized for paleontology. So many hoops in the education system all designed to warp the minds of American youth. Sadly, it is working all too well.


I hear you and you seem to have your head on your shoulders.

The advice that we gave our sons (24 and 22) was simple. Go to college if you must as that was our lifelong dream for them, but if you notice something wrong, get out. We trust your instincts. Son1 is now a Firefighter/Paramedic and is working on some various HazMat Training and Tactical Paramedic courses. He did 2 years at a large state 4 yr college and figured out it was a waste of time. He is gainfully employed, he may never make lots of money but his skills are transferable and needed.

Son 2 did 1 year at a smaller state run 4 yr college and after that year he saw the liberal mindset and left. He enrolled in Tech School, got the necessary certificates to start an Electrical Lineman Apprenticeship Program, earned his Commercial Drivers License Class A and is now gainfully employed with a large Publicly Traded Power Company making what I call, "Real Man Money". He had multiple offers as soon as he turned 21 and earned his CDL and got to pick his company from a small list. That is pretty cool in today's environment.

Many family members and friends criticized their decisions, (not to their faces mind you because both are bona fide MEN) yet many of the critics had sons and daughters with no jobs and worthless degrees.

I don't say this to rub it in, I say this because I think there are plenty of jobs available but our society has stigmatized many of them and consequently young people are in big trouble with worthless degrees.

Who wants to be on a high line in crappy weather dealing with thousands of volts of electricity? Someone who saw an available opportunity and wasn't afraid to face society's misquided illness.


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## Charles Martel

Lady_Husker said:


> I majored in psychology and minored in Environment Studies. I wanted to major in Environmental Studies because that is the pathway to a masters and P.h.D. in paleontology. I love my dinos <3


That's a really strange path to an advanced degree in Paleontology. You should have done a paleontology, geology, Biology, or even an ecology undergrad if you wanted to pursue a masters and PhD in paleontology. You'd have to do ALOT of additional coursework in order to get from an undergrad degree in environmental studies to being accepted into a masters program in paleontology.

How much student debt do you have? It's a tough situation to be in...psychology is a really hard field to crack into with just a bachelors degree. I wish colleges provided actual counseling with regards to job prospects and career paths with certain degrees instead of encouraging kids to go tens of thousands of dollars into debt for degrees that will never pay for themselves. If I were in your position, and I didn't have staggering amounts of student debt, I would take my psych degree, study like crazy for the LSAT, and apply to the best law school I could possibly get into.

Tragically, your psych degree is almost worthless by itself.

I feel for you. I really do.

Edit: I have advanced degrees in Earth Science and Geology, and I've taught at the major university level. I know how frustrated you probably are. I know a fair amount about how to manage student debt, and I know how to advance towards academic and career goals. I'd be happy to lend you whatever expertise I have.


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## darsk20

Sounds like you received some poor advice and/or didn't research well prior to picking your course of study.

What I've seen is that most of the generations that started college in the '90's and later do not understand that they are a commodity. You have to have the right skills and marketing capability in order to sell yourself once you graduate. I knew going into college that a Psych or Social degree was a non-starter without a master's or PhD. I knew Phys Ed was a non-starter along with most of your liberal arts. There are no markets around those types of degrees and/or they were saturate to begin with to such a level that you have to have some "thing" to set yourself apart.

I hate to hear that this happened to you, and it sounds like you're trying to figure it out and going after what you really like. That's usually where I would start with my suggestions to the younger generations, but with the caution that they may not have the success that their family has. You may also be limiting yourself on location. Not sure how needy a Psych degree is in Nebraska. Though the corn has ears, most of them are deaf. 

Have you looked at relocating to a larger metropolis in order to expand your options?

Given the military a thought? Degrees = higher grade, if I remember the Navy recruiter correctly. Granted, they came to me way to late in my college career.

Good luck and welcome if I haven't said it yet.


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## Lady_Husker

Slippy said:


> I hear you and you seem to have your head on your shoulders.
> 
> The advice that we gave our sons (24 and 22) was simple. Go to college if you must as that was our lifelong dream for them, but if you notice something wrong, get out. We trust your instincts. Son1 is now a Firefighter/Paramedic and is working on some various HazMat Training and Tactical Paramedic courses. He did 2 years at a large state 4 yr college and figured out it was a waste of time. He is gainfully employed, he may never make lots of money but his skills are transferable and needed.
> 
> Son 2 did 1 year at a smaller state run 4 yr college and after that year he saw the liberal mindset and left. He enrolled in Tech School, got the necessary certificates to start an Electrical Lineman Apprenticeship Program, earned his Commercial Drivers License Class A and is now gainfully employed with a large Publicly Traded Power Company making better money than most of the recent college graduates that we know. He had multiple offers as soon as he turned 21 and earned his CDL and got to pick his company from a small list. That is pretty cool in today's environment.
> 
> Many family members and friends criticized their decisions, (not to their faces mind you because both are bona fide MEN) yet many of the critics had sons and daughters with no jobs and worthless degrees.
> 
> I don't say this to rub it in, I say this because I think there are plenty of jobs available but our society has stigmatized many of them and consequently young people are in big trouble with worthless degrees.
> 
> Who wants to be on a high line in crappy weather dealing with thousands of volts of electricity? Someone who saw an available opportunity and wasn't afraid to face society's misquided illness.


The issue I ran into is I have horrible horrible health. My asthma is so bad that I can't even run from one end of my house to the other without needing my inhaler. I wasn't born with this disease; I acquired it when I fell in a lake at 3 years old and nearly drown. I will never outgrow this type of asthma. Additionally, I have broken both of my ankles and I had rods holding my right hip together. Being on my feet for long periods or lots of physical activity results in agonizing pain in my hip. Hell of a body to have for being a prepper eh? There are some options I have for managing my pain, but I don't want to become dependent on more medications (especially pain meds) when I'm already dependent on my asthma meds. A desk job is about my only option for long-term employment.

Currently, I'm working with my doctor to better manage my asthma without such a heavy use of medications, but the progress has been slow. I don't at all stigmatize jobs like those you have mentioned; I am just physically unable to perform them at the present time. The good news in all this is that I managed to spend five years in a liberal hot zone and came out more red than ever haha


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## SOCOM42

LADY HUSKER,

It is too bad you are in the situation you are in.
I have many friends who have kids in the same dilemma.
Today and for several decades my blue collar skills have served me well.
In my early 40s i got a degree in mechanical engineering, not that i needed it, i wanted to see if i could do it.
I attended classes on a part time basis.
I have been self employed for almost fourty years.
The last twelve, i have been in semi-retirement.
For what i still do i charge $60.00 an hour, I turn work away.
Perhaps you have some hobby skill you could convert.
Another option is a night school in a trade environment.
Don't give up yet.
My daughter who is somewhat disabled from a debilitating disease, was house ridden for four years,
got a job from a friend of mine 5 years ago, He was hesitant about hiring a GIRL for the job!
It was a simple gopher job, breaking down boxes, dumping trash and every other low skill task.
One day the computers would not come on line, she asked if she could help, frustrated the owner said "OK",
In a few minuets the company was back on line. today she handles, the computers, billing, programming, advertising, advertizing art, 
and a lot of other duties for which she had no training, but had a knack or propensity for. 
The ad art and boilerplate she writes are used on a national scale.
She is well regarded and makes $25.00 in a small company.
Not bad for an art major. It is her first job.
She is planning to become self employed in the future.

Point is look at yourself, see what you have a knack for, get some formal training, then market that skill.


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## Mish

keith9365 said:


> I have a few friends with psychology degrees. For the most part you have to have a masters in psychology to get a job in it.


THAT!!!!!
You had to know that about the degree you were going for. You go all the way or you have nothing with that degree.
Don't blame the government on this one. You chose your major.


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## Ripon

Ma'am as much as I despise the place I'd look into San Fran Wacko....they hire and have need for lots of psych degrees.


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## GasholeWillie

Have you considered enlisting in the military? Seriously, talk to a recruiter, find out if there is a need for your degree, at the very least look into the Reserves. You may even be able to get that additional schooling you seek PAID FOR. You may find out that the lifestyle agrees with you. You never know until you try or look into it. If you do go for it and hate it, 2 years, you could do that standing on your head. This job market for your position in life right now is awful, reminds me very much of the mid 90's when I struggled mightily.


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## SOCOM42

GasholeWillie said:


> Have you considered enlisting in the military? Seriously, talk to a recruiter, find out if there is a need for your degree, at the very least look into the Reserves. You may even be able to get that additional schooling you seek PAID FOR. You may find out that the lifestyle agrees with you. You never know until you try or look into it. If you do go for it and hate it, 2 years, you could do that standing on your head. This job market for your position in life right now is awful, reminds me very much of the mid 90's when I struggled mightily.


If you read her background, her extensive medical problems, they would not let her join the girl scouts.


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## keith9365

GasholeWillie said:


> Have you considered enlisting in the military? Seriously, talk to a recruiter, find out if there is a need for your degree, at the very least look into the Reserves. You may even be able to get that additional schooling you seek PAID FOR. You may find out that the lifestyle agrees with you. You never know until you try or look into it. If you do go for it and hate it, 2 years, you could do that standing on your head. This job market for your position in life right now is awful, reminds me very much of the mid 90's when I struggled mightily.


The best years of my life were spent in the military. Nothing in civilian life compares to it. There is no brotherhood or comradery that will compare to brothers who pledge to fight to the death for you. I miss it.


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## Camel923

I remember having a frank discussion with my daughter a decade ago about that very same major. She was upset about what I told her to expect for employment and salary prospects with a four year degree in psychology. She eventually decided on marketing and has done well with it and now has her MBA. I feel for students who get taken because colleges advise students to take what they like and to not worry about the rest. It is criminal in my opinion. Wish you luck.


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## GasholeWillie

SOCOM42 said:


> If you read her background, her extensive medical problems, they would not let her join the girl scouts.


Did not read any further than the thread, no BG at all.


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## James m

Social work?


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## SOCOM42

GasholeWillie said:


> Did not read any further than the thread, no BG at all.


Read post no. 12 bottom.


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## Lady_Husker

While I appreciate everyone's advice and admit I deserve the criticism, I want to point out this thread wasn't intended on being a pity party for myself. My original post was advice to others about higher education and life goals. I simply want to encourage others to learn from my experience and do what they want to do with their lives. I feel like my experience is a good lesson in not being a sheep following others around. This concept can be extended to coming out as a prepper to one's family. My father thinks is absolutely stupid to be a prepper, but I decided (in part, thanks to my college experience) I did not care what his opinion was and that I was going to prep regardless. Or am I the only one who doesn't have a family that encourages prepping?


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## Gunner's Mate

The Best education I got I got was from Dad followed by the Navy followed by OU. My continuing ED is now done the local coffee shop (JJ's College of Knowledge)


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## Gunner's Mate

I just opened a Dos Equis with a staple remover


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## Stick

The psych degree caught my eye. I worked in the woods in the 70's (my twenties) and had a little boy. Took nine years to get through two years of school due to work and distance from school. But I got AA's in wildlife management, forestry, natural resources management. Another son was born. Kept working in the woods but by the time I was 33, I'd had it. Went back to school, majored in recreation administration, with an eye towards dude ranching. Lots of sociology and psychology in leisure studies, so then I double majored in psych and rec, then psyche major and rec minor. My dad had a psyche PhD from Stanford and I'd always found his text books to be fascinating when I was a kid. Thinking the BA wouldn't be much good, I thought as long as I had some momentum going I'd go for the MA in counseling. Get licensed. You know, work with the walking wounded, the worried well, the seasonally and chronically bummed out, charge a lot and soak the insurance companies. While writing my thesis I worked graveyard shift on a locked acute psychiatric unit. Two years of intense education that was, boy howdy. Another son was born. Then off to MT for a good job in day treatment/clubhouse models (emphasis by that time on "day") with outstanding hunting and fishing and just shooting in general. Two sons make Eagle Scout (can't skip that)...then, I got to help pioneer an effective rural/mobile treatment team/program that is becoming standard. That was the best job I ever had. Retired now, I look back and remember the people and the families' lives where I've made a positive difference. There's a lot of them. It was worth all the work that went into it, so go for the MA or MS. Psychiatric social work always needs good people. Get comfortable with people with schizophrenia and other psychotic and mood disorders and you will always have work. And you will have stories that Stephen King couldn't dream up.


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## Prepared One

Well, there are a lot of people with a lot of different degrees out there that are out of work. ( Thanks Oblunder! ) I never went to college. Life and circumstances took over. Then again, I really never wanted to go to college. I wasn't particularly enamored with school in the first place. There is a long story of woe here but I will keep it short. Speaking from to many years of experience........Find what you like to do and do it. No matter the money or where. If your dream is college then go. Although, I would suggest a degree that will allow you to make an actual living. ( My sister got a degree in sociology and she is in a go nowhere job making no money. She is up to her eyeballs in debt years later ) Otherwise you better have a plan. You will be working the rest of your life most likely. You may as well enjoy it. Pick the career before it picks you!


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## Hemi45

Psychology is one of those cupcake degrees (I have a similar cupcake degree, so I know firsthand) that on it's own only gets one so far. The good news is that it can be a nice springboard to getting a JD (lot's of money and time spent sitting in an office) or the glaringly obvious MSW. I mention that since you like higher learning. Moreover, having a BS/BA gets somebody an interview in most any field, related or otherwise, that folks lacking the sheepskin simply wouldn't. You have more options than you likely realize and with determination and out-of-the-box thinking you'll make good on the investment. 

I happen to agree that college isn't what it used to be and simply going down that path because conventional wisdom says so can be a poor choice. Not that it's applicable to you with your health concerns but the trades are looking better and better as are specialized tech fields. I also believe the military, with a good plan and little luck, is one of the best opportunities to set a course for a rewarding and fulfilling future.


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## rice paddy daddy

Lady_Husker said:


> I graduated with my bachelor's of psychology back in May. I spent five years and thousands of dollars while being under the impression it would be worth the investment. From the time I was a young child, my family and the school systems told me that a college education is the only way to make a good living when you lack trade skills. So here I sit, three months after graduating with hardly any money, no job, and loan debt. Despite putting in dozens and dozens of applications for everything from retail to government jobs, I remain unemployed even in a red state that has relatively low unemployment.
> 
> I don't regret learning because I love learning, but if I had known that my B.A. was going to be so useless, I would have followed my dreams. Everyone told me I could never make a good living doing what I wanted to do so I picked the next best thing. So to all the preppers on here who are considering pursuing higher education, don't pick a field you think you will be successful in...pick a field you will love. You may not have a job at the end of it, but at least you will not have wasted your time and money on something you didn't care much for.
> 
> This is the price that is being paid for the crappy economy that our government has made.


There is one employer who will always be in need of psychologists. The VA. Especially now, with the perfect storm (for you) of an angry Congress, an angry public, and more vets than ever in need of counseling for PTSD and related issues.

Not every one should attend college, as someone noted above. I was (am) one. I had my shot before all these loans and grants, but even on the second go-round using the GI Bill I still couldn't keep up. I suppose that if things then were like today, some psychologist would have labeled me with ADD, or ADHD, or some other alphabet diagnosis.:joyous:

Seriously, try the Department of Veteran Affairs.


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## Medic33

you are not the only one that feels that way Mrs. Husker, lots of college grads find it hard to find work most wind up taken jobs unrelated to he field which they studied.
I keep winding up around engineers and physists most of my friends have some kind of engineering degree and my wife's most have physics those guys have like PHD's and have trouble not only finding work but keeping it too.
take my best friend he has a PHD in electrical engineering, has been driving a Truck OTR for the last 10years I got him the job and warned him that it sucked<he said I don't care I need a job.


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## paraquack

My niece graduated from college with a BA in teaching. That was four years ago in 
Chicago area. Could only get part time teacher positions in grade schools to fill in 
as necessary. Gave up and got a job as a nanny. The so called "recovery" of our
economy is a bald faced lie.

Down here in AZ, they need teachers, but her husband, a teacher has tenure and of 
course doesn't want to move and who can blame him. He's working on masters, so 
maybe later.


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## Slippy

One of the saddest things that I see on a regular basis is young people unwilling or unable to find a good "Entry Level Job" to help them prepare for life...AND also seeing older, educated and more experienced Americans working in "Entry Level Jobs".

I've posted this before and I'll post it again...remember the TV show with Mike Rowe called Dirty Jobs? I read an interview that Mike Rowe did and he said that the 1 thing that EVERY Company that he featured on the show had in common was...They all had a HELP WANTED sign on the door.


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## Mish

Great read!!
Why Sally can?t get a good job with her college degree - The Washington Post

To sum it up...
Sally needs more education or needs to pick a new career.

BTW...I believe a teaching degree has become way too easy to get! Maybe that's why there are no jobs?! Everyone graduating from HS wants to be a teacher!


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## Gimble

Slippy said:


> One of the saddest things that I see on a regular basis is young people unwilling or unable to find a good "Entry Level Job" to help them prepare for life...AND also seeing older, educated and more experienced Americans working in "Entry Level Jobs".


Most young people were sold "Go to college, its the only way to get a high paying job". At the end of college, they believe they are fully educated and deserving of a high paying job. And who can blame them, for the most part they were programmed with this cause and effect by their parents... clean your room and we'll go do X or if you're good, we'll do Y... Its a problem that is larger than just kids and can probably be fixed by getting the gov't out of the micro-management position it is in now.


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## Mish

AskSteve said:


> Most young people were sold "Go to college, its the only way to get a high paying job". At the end of college, they believe they are fully educated and deserving of a high paying job. And who can blame them, for the most part they were programmed with this cause and effect by their parents... clean your room and we'll go do X or if you're good, we'll do Y... Its a problem that is larger than just kids and can probably be fixed by getting the gov't out of the micro-management position it is in now.


Steve, let me ask you something. hehe
How is it the government's fault that college grads aren't getting high paying jobs?


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## James m

I'm sure all of the electrical engineers are happy they have a job over in China. Or maybe they don't like the long hours. Americans kill themselves with China. I took my next best option for college. My first option was a dream of powered flight. But I guess that's just a childhood dream. Then I thought about flight mechanical person.

Try the insane asylum. Couldn't hurt. 6th floor too.


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## rice paddy daddy

Mish said:


> Steve, let me ask you something. hehe
> How is it the governments fault that college grads aren't getting high paying jobs?


Silly, don't you know that personal failure of any type is the government's fault?
Or your parent's fault.
Or, maybe it's "the system."


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## Gimble

From a fairly high level... DOE sets up school curriculum. Schools are taught to teach kids "Go to college, its the only way to get a high paying job". Gov't says that you can only discriminate against the things you can change, so all jobs say you have to have a BS degree. Then with gov't backs student loans, everybody can get into whatever school where they are accepted. Because the gov't backs the student loans, the price of tuition goes up.


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## Mish

James m said:


> I'm sure all of the electrical engineers are happy they have a job over in China. Or maybe they don't like the long hours. Americans kill themselves with China. I took my next best option for college. My first option was a dream of powered flight. But I guess that's just a childhood dream. Then I thought about flight mechanical person.
> 
> Try the insane asylum. Couldn't hurt. 6th floor too.


What's your major?


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## James m

Mish said:


> What's your major?


Computer Information Systems - Network Tech.


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## Prepared One

I majored in life.


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## rice paddy daddy

AskSteve said:


> From a fairly high level... DOE sets up school curriculum. Schools are taught to teach kids "Go to college, its the only way to get a high paying job". Gov't says that you can only discriminate against the things you can change, so all jobs say you have to have a BS degree. Then with gov't backs student loans, everybody can get into whatever school where they are accepted. Because the gov't backs the student loans, the price of tuition goes up.


That is where parents come in.
"Son, don't waste your time getting a liberal arts degree in lesbian studies. Go to welding school, make $42,000 a year to start."

Or be like my youngest step son - worked his way thru college, got a degree in engineering with no debt, has done contract work for the Navy for the last decade, makes enough money to own an air plane and fiddle with a classic car.

Or be like my oldest daughter - worked a full time job simultaneously with a part time job and going to school full time. Took her 6 years for a 4 year degree, but she owes nothing.

Our kids were not raised with an entitlement mentality, nor were they spoiled. Those two things right there are what is the biggest hurdle facing a lot of kids today.


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## Mish

AskSteve said:


> From a fairly high level... DOE sets up school curriculum. Schools are taught to teach kids "Go to college, its the only way to get a high paying job". Gov't says that you can only discriminate against the things you can change, so all jobs say you have to have a BS degree. Then with gov't backs student loans, everybody can get into whatever school where they are accepted. Because the gov't backs the student loans, the price of tuition goes up.


No one is forced to go to college and no one is forced into a certain degree path. Those are personal choices. 
Let's stop blaming everything and accept what really is the problem...over-saturation of specific job markets or unrealistic expectations of a career path.

Teachers are a dime a dozen anymore. It's an easy degree...summers off. Everyone wants that job!! hehe


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## SGT E

Gunner's Mate said:


> I just opened a Dos Equis with a staple remover


The open hollow bottom area of an M-4 or AR-15 bolt makes one heck of a bottle opener......You gotta be fast in a firefight though! Beer may get warm!


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## Gimble

Mish said:


> No one is forced to go to college and no one is forced into a certain degree path. Those are personal choices.
> Let's stop blaming everything and accept what really is the problem...over-saturation of specific job markets or unrealistic expectations of a career path.


I hear you loud and clear... and I agree with you. The problem is that you and I are the smart ones and there aren't many of us. If you were 14-18 and had no real plans for your life, no real interests (or even if you did) and you walked into the high school guidance counselor's office and she said "College!" prep and all the ads on TV said "College!" and all your friends were headed to "College!" and so on and so on... you'd begin to think that "College!" was the only way to go.

If you looked at the job postings in your local paper or online or wherever and saw that most of them (that weren't waiter or fast food) required a "College!" degree... What would you think at that point?

If this didn't get started with the gov't setting school curriculum, then where did it start from?

I'm not complaining about me, but like so many others in this thread I feel for the current generation.


----------



## Slippy

Mish said:


> Steve, let me ask you something. hehe
> How is it the government's fault that college grads aren't getting high paying jobs?


Excellent querstion my good friend Mishie!

Here's my answer and its is a two-part answer;

First; The Government is NOT at fault...
And B; The Government is to blame in a HUGE way.

But Slippy, you can't have it both ways!

I know but here are some of the reasons why the Feds are to blame. The main reason is that the Feds have passed thousands of regulations on business, the environment, banking, and education resulting in an environment where the US has lost millions of high paying productive jobs and left millions of jobs where the last thing you hear from an employee is..."Would you like Fries with that?

Plus Corporate Taxes are the Highest in the World and minimum wage laws have motivated an elimination of human resources and an environment where small businesses are not focused on growth, but focused on maintaining a margin position to keep them in business. Less people doing more and the owners paying more taxes and experiencing an increase in CGS (Cost of Goods Sold) due to regulations.

WE the People are at fault because we voted these socialists in to increase regulations.
Make sense?


----------



## paraquack

Don't forget all the big corporations getting visa for foreigh employees to come in to the US and work for peanuts, like MicroSoft.


----------



## Joe Smith

Hello, new guy here.

1st-You're in this for the long haul, so be patient and make steps to get where you want to go.
2nd-I fully understand how you feel, I have graduated a long long time ago, and never did find a job in my field. The economy has undergone "fundamental change".

Employment, I would suggest that you apply for a job(s) as substitute teacher at all the school districts in your area. I know it's not what you want but it is something. If the kids annoy you just yell at them, and threaten them with referral/suspension. Yes you are qualified to be a sub.

Perhaps you might apply as a teacher in your field, if a school doesn't have someone to fill the job they might take someone without a teaching license. Take the test (if you have the money) for this endorsement area, called a PRAXIS. -cost is about 100-130 dollars. Subbing is flexible, you work when you want, and would give you some money.

Debt/college loan- apply for the income based repayment plan (IBR). This is based on your income, my payments are $0. The deferments can last for three years but I would start the IBR now, as the loan lasts for 10 years and you might want to start making $0 payments now. I can't say what will happen with the law and school debt in the future, you might have to pay tax on the "earned income" of your unpaid debt, but that will be in 10 years.

Take a deep breath, things just are not the way they were. If teaching is acceptable to you, you can take some classes and be done in 1 year and have a license. let us know how it goes, ask more questions if we can help.


----------



## Slippy

Hey New Guy,

You just pissed me off.  But I'll let it slide this time. The reason you pissed me off is the bullshat called the Income Based Repayment plan.

That's my #$%& money that I lent you (via the US Government who confiscated it from me through threat of incarceration). You took out the loan, you need to pay it back. Period, end of story.

I'll let it slide because you didn't create the policy, the #$%& that I helped elect set this policy. So do me a favor and don't bring up how you were complicit in taking my hard earned money so you could @#$%& off in some liberal bullshat dorm room.

Thanks



Joe Smith said:


> Hello, new guy here.
> 
> 1st-You're in this for the long haul, so be patient and make steps to get where you want to go.
> 2nd-I fully understand how you feel, I have graduated a long long time ago, and never did find a job in my field. The economy has undergone "fundamental change".
> 
> Employment, I would suggest that you apply for a job(s) as substitute teacher at all the school districts in your area. I know it's not what you want but it is something. If the kids annoy you just yell at them, and threaten them with referral/suspension. Yes you are qualified to be a sub.
> 
> Perhaps you might apply as a teacher in your field, if a school doesn't have someone to fill the job they might take someone without a teaching license. Take the test (if you have the money) for this endorsement area, called a PRAXIS. -cost is about 100-130 dollars. Subbing is flexible, you work when you want, and would give you some money.
> 
> Debt/college loan- apply for the income based repayment plan (IBR). This is based on your income, my payments are $0. The deferments can last for three years but I would start the IBR now, as the loan lasts for 10 years and you might want to start making $0 payments now. I can't say what will happen with the law and school debt in the future, you might have to pay tax on the "earned income" of your unpaid debt, but that will be in 10 years.
> 
> Take a deep breath, things just are not the way they were. If teaching is acceptable to you, you can take some classes and be done in 1 year and have a license. let us know how it goes, ask more questions if we can help.


----------



## Smitty901

Truth is college has been a scam for a long time. half of the laborers on our crews have degrees . Most of the people I know with degrees do not work in that field.


----------



## Camel923

it appears to me that high school diplomas are passed out like birth control at Planed Parenthood. Depending of the degree and major, college ends up being what high school should have been. This necessitates going further to make higher education worth it. AskSteve is right that the Federal government allowing more borrowing just allows colleges to raise tuition 10% a year regardless of product. When Classes are not filled perhaps the financial insanity will stop and graduates will actually have something marketable.

In regards to high school, I don't give a hoot about everyone. Only give diplomas to those who earn it. The rest are headed to the jobs illegals will do that those on welfare or unemployment turn their noses up at.


----------



## Prepared One

The other part of this whole equation is young people now a days want instant gratification. They come out of college with their diploma tightly in hand waving it to anyone who will look at it and demand to start at a top level position. Case in point, we hired this kid straight out of school for an entry level sales position about 3 months ago. This kid still calls his Mommy 2 or 3 times a day and can barely figure out how to get on the freeway. As one of his trainers and a territory sales manager I had the pleasure of taking this kid around and evaluating his knowledge of the product offering and his general sales abilities. At lunch one day he blurts out, for no particular reason, he expects to be the general sales manager in about 6 months. Dumb ass! I lean back in my chair, watch the pretty lady walk by, and inform him that the owner is the general sales manager and I am the senior regional manager of the last 15 years and one of your bosses. Then kindly informed him that since he has sold nothing in the three months since he has been with us that it would be prudent that he at least sell something before he expects to be promoted to anything more then a truck driver out in the warehouse. He is not going to make it. Dumb ass!


----------



## Lady_Husker

Wow, this thread really took off in a big hurry didn't it? Well here are a few of my personal bits in regards to other's comments:

First and foremost: I DO NOT BELIEVE I AM ENTITLED TO ANYTHING. While a good portion of my generation does, I am not a member of that crowd. I just find it a little bit sad that a person with a degree has a harder time landing a job than a person without one. For example, I had no trouble finding retail jobs prior to my graduation but now retail won't touch me. Why? Three store managers, whom I've called to follow up on applications, all told me that I was over qualified. Fast food gave me the same answer.

Second: Yes, it was my personal choice to pursue college and a degree in psychology. It was my personal choice to be the second person in my entire family to hold a college degree. It was my personal choice to want better for my life. It was my personal choice to attempt to be a productive member of society rather than a welfare leech (like so many in the community I came from). Even more importantly, it was my personal choice to pick a field that offers a chance at helping other people.

Third: While I mentioned above that I did make the personal choice to purse psychology and accept all the responsibility that came with my choice, anyone who does not think that the government has a hand in the fate of college graduates is, frankly, delusional. As I had previously mentioned, my aunt (the only other person in my family to graduate college) graduated with a B.A. roughly ten years ago. She had to turn down employers. The opportunities that existed ten years ago no longer exists today. A little bit of detective work on the subject clearly points to the government. They don't want people to be self-sufficient anymore. They want everyone on the welfare system...they want everyone dependent upon them.

Fourth: Although I made another post about this, I am going to say it again because I feel it is important: I am not throwing a pity party for myself or anyone else in my generation. My only goal here was to encourage others not to buy into the "Go to college" bullsh*t unless going to college was already something he/she wanted to do. Furthermore, talking about my life experiences is not something I'm overly good at and the only reason I talk about them here is I felt comfortable with a lot of the people here. I was confident that people would see my post for what it was and not as some excuse or otherwise.

Fifth: I'm not a moron, people. I know that I have to continue in my education in order to do anything significant with a psych degree. No one is going to let a B.A. walking in and become chief psychologists at a mental health hospital. Likewise, no university is going to hire and tenure someone with on a B.A. For crying out loud, don't assume I'm stupid because I find it sad I don't have a job. I never, for one moment, thought I would get some high-grade job with only a B.A. Really, I would like a job at a bakery or a craft store. So yes, I knew damn well I wasn't going to hit the ground running with a B.A. but I sure as hell wasn't expecting to be denied jobs I would have easily landed prior to graduation.

Finally, I appreciate the suggestions that have been given, and (if I am able) I have been looking into them. I may be some wet-behind-the-ears 20-something, but I sure as hell am not a quitter. Learned my lesson about sharing my own experiences though.


----------



## Prepared One

Lady_Husker! Please don't take any offense to what we say here. I like you and the way you think. You keep swinging till you hit somebody! We have the advantage of experience and time. Some of us can be direct and to the point at times ( Me included ) and as preppers we tend to be aggressive and say what is on our mind. For the most part, most of the people here are highly intelligent ( Me not included ) and thoughtful. Generally, most will share the knowledge, experience, and yes, their opinions. I think you have the smarts to discern the malicious from the well meaning.


----------



## Slippy

Hang in there Lady Husker, I think you got what it takes. You've simply got to change your mindset a bit, get healthy and figure it out.

I'll leave you with two things;

One; A story about two of my lifelong buddies. Growing up I had two neighbors that were a few years older than me and took me under their wings as a young boy. These two buddies of mine took different routes. One was a straight A student all his life, went to college, med school and has been a world class and well known Orthaepedic Surgeon for the past 25+ years. He is very well off and has skills that are out of this world.

My second buddy dropped out of high school, but as a young boy was the kind of kid that all the neighborhood men accepted. He drank and skipped school but if you needed a tree cut down, he was your guy even at 12-13 years old. After he dropped out of high school, he went to work at a paper mill during a Union strike. He got hassled by the union for breaking the picket line and in the process whipped 3 union men who got in his way...at 17 years old. He worked for the mill for a few years and figured out they needed someone to help the with their waste run off. He studied waste water run off from a paper mill, quit the mill and hired on with a contractor who supplied them with the service. He became their best superintendent then borrowed as much money as could to buy his boss out. 30 years later he's worth millions of dollars and still has no high school or college degree. His business is doing well and he fishes the gulf coast most days out of his big boat from his multi million dollar home.

I saw him at a funeral a few years back and I told my wife I thought he was the smartest person I knew when I was in the 5th grade and he still is the smartest man I know now that I'm in my mid 50's. 

The 2nd thing I'll leave you with is this; I'll say a prayer for you and hope you'll do the same. I pray that you wake up early and one day find something or someone. Nothing wrong with a woman being a wife either.

Your friend, 
Slippy


----------



## Mish

Lady_Husker said:


> Wow, this thread really took off in a big hurry didn't it? Well here are a few of my personal bits in regards to other's comments:
> 
> First and foremost: I DO NOT BELIEVE I AM ENTITLED TO ANYTHING. While a good portion of my generation does, I am not a member of that crowd. I just find it a little bit sad that a person with a degree has a harder time landing a job than a person without one. For example, I had no trouble finding retail jobs prior to my graduation but now retail won't touch me. Why? Three store managers, whom I've called to follow up on applications, all told me that I was over qualified. Fast food gave me the same answer.
> 
> Second: Yes, it was my personal choice to pursue college and a degree in psychology. It was my personal choice to be the second person in my entire family to hold a college degree. It was my personal choice to want better for my life. It was my personal choice to attempt to be a productive member of society rather than a welfare leech (like so many in the community I came from). Even more importantly, it was my personal choice to pick a field that offers a chance at helping other people.
> 
> Third: While I mentioned above that I did make the personal choice to purse psychology and accept all the responsibility that came with my choice, anyone who does not think that the government has a hand in the fate of college graduates is, frankly, delusional. As I had previously mentioned, my aunt (the only other person in my family to graduate college) graduated with a B.A. roughly ten years ago. She had to turn down employers. The opportunities that existed ten years ago no longer exists today. A little bit of detective work on the subject clearly points to the government. They don't want people to be self-sufficient anymore. They want everyone on the welfare system...they want everyone dependent upon them.
> 
> Fourth: Although I made another post about this, I am going to say it again because I feel it is important: I am not throwing a pity party for myself or anyone else in my generation. My only goal here was to encourage others not to buy into the "Go to college" bullsh*t unless going to college was already something he/she wanted to do. Furthermore, talking about my life experiences is not something I'm overly good at and the only reason I talk about them here is I felt comfortable with a lot of the people here. I was confident that people would see my post for what it was and not as some excuse or otherwise.
> 
> Fifth: I'm not a moron, people. I know that I have to continue in my education in order to do anything significant with a psych degree. No one is going to let a B.A. walking in and become chief psychologists at a mental health hospital. Likewise, no university is going to hire and tenure someone with on a B.A. For crying out loud, don't assume I'm stupid because I find it sad I don't have a job. I never, for one moment, thought I would get some high-grade job with only a B.A. Really, I would like a job at a bakery or a craft store. So yes, I knew damn well I wasn't going to hit the ground running with a B.A. but I sure as hell wasn't expecting to be denied jobs I would have easily landed prior to graduation.
> 
> Finally, I appreciate the suggestions that have been given, and (if I am able) I have been looking into them. I may be some wet-behind-the-ears 20-something, but I sure as hell am not a quitter. Learned my lesson about sharing my own experiences though.


Good for you, sweetheart!! Fight on!! I love your determination! I hope to god you get your PHD and help people!!


----------



## Lady_Husker

Prepared One said:


> Lady_Husker! Please don't take any offense to what we say here. I like you and the way you think. You keep swinging till you hit somebody! We have the advantage of experience and time. Some of us can be direct and to the point at times ( Me included ) and as preppers we tend to be aggressive and say what is on our mind. For the most part, most of the people here are highly intelligent ( Me not included ) and thoughtful. Generally, most will share the knowledge, experience, and yes, their opinions. I think you have the smarts to discern the malicious from the well meaning.


Oh, sorry, I should have clarified: I am not offended. And I certainly didn't mean to sound like I was. I was just setting the record straight...and not all of the comments I addressed in that post were comments made in public.


----------



## Prepared One

Lady_Husker said:


> Oh, sorry, I should have clarified: I am not offended. And I certainly didn't mean to sound like I was. I was just setting the record straight...and not all of the comments I addressed in that post were comments made in public.


No worries. I think you have made a couple of friends here. Don't let that statement go to your head now! Get out there and kick some ass.

Now, I am going to go outside, get drunk, float in the pool naked, and piss my neighbors off. :shock:


----------



## Mish

Prepared One said:


> No worries. I think you have made a couple of friends here. Don't let that statement go to your head now! Get out there and kick some ass.
> 
> Now, I am going to go outside, get drunk, float in the pool naked, and piss my neighbors off. :shock:


I'm getting my drone with a camera ready!! Thanks for the warning!!


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## Lady_Husker

I need to get a pool...


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## Mish

Lady_Husker said:


> I need to get a pool...


You need a job first....BAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!

lol


----------



## Slippy

Mish said:


> I'm getting my drone with a camera ready!! Thanks for the warning!!


PO nekkid and afraid...of Mishie's camera drone!

PS Bring that drone around Slippy Lodge and....:rant:


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## SGT E

Delete...sorry!


----------



## Mish

SGT E said:


> Delete...sorry!


Boooo!!!


----------



## Ralph Rotten

Maam, you have been out of college for 3 months....I've had boners that lasted longer than that.

You are looking for a career job, not burger king. It takes time to find a good job. Find yourself an ugly job at Walymart to pay the bills and keep searching for your dream job. The jobs worth having are usually already occupied (because they're good jobs) so you have to wait for an opening. Keep plugging away, and that degree will yield results eventually.

BTW: College does not mean you will be raking in the bucks right away, but down the road your high-end will be higher than if you had not obtained a degree. Also, your degree will help to tilt the balances in many promotions (even if it is a totally inapplicable field.)


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## preppermama

I could have written this post. 

College was the biggest waste of money ever. I grew up in poverty and dreamed of going off to college for years. I was ineligible for financial aid for years because my parents never did their taxes. When I was 25 and declared independent and I could get aid. My feet hit the ground running and I graduated from college in 3 years with honors.

My degree did not qualify me for a better job. I continued working in the same line of work I always had and to this day I regret buying into the big college lie. I will not encourage my kids to attend college unless they plan to become a doctor or a engineer.


----------



## Farmboyc

preppermama said:


> I could have written this post.
> 
> College was the biggest waste of money ever. I grew up in poverty and dreamed of going off to college for years. I was ineligible for financial aid for years because my parents never did their taxes. When I was 25 and declared independent and I could get aid. My feet hit the ground running and I graduated from college in 3 years with honors.
> 
> My degree did not qualify me for a better job. I continued working in the same line of work I always had and to this day I regret buying into the big college lie. I will not encourage my kids to attend college unless they plan to become a doctor or a engineer.


What degree did you get?


----------



## Slippy

preppermama said:


> I could have written this post.
> 
> College was the biggest waste of money ever. I grew up in poverty and dreamed of going off to college for years. I was ineligible for financial aid for years because my parents never did their taxes. When I was 25 and declared independent and I could get aid. My feet hit the ground running and I graduated from college in 3 years with honors.
> 
> My degree did not qualify me for a better job. I continued working in the same line of work I always had and to this day I regret buying into the big college lie. I will not encourage my kids to attend college unless they plan to become a doctor or a engineer.


I hate to hear that preppermama. But Farmboyc asks a good question; what is your degree? and I'd like to know how long ago it was that you attended college?

There was a time that college was GREAT. I was the first in my entire extended family to not only walk onto a college campus but to walk off with a degree. At the time it was affordable, worth the money, and opened many many doors of opportunity for me. I am proud and blessed to have worked my way through college and of my degree.

Times have changed and We The People and the evil Government are to blame for the downfall of colleges and universities.

On a side note, a trivia querstion for those who follow me on twister...what famous governor signed Slippy's diploma?

Answer; George C Wallace! Ain't that something?


----------



## Smitty901

The problem with college today is it has no interest in turning out people with valuable skills. It is just an extension of the public schools indoctrination plan. Even the engineers we hire are more versed in being PC than anything else. Most of them fail are sent packing early on. If you are going to seek advanced education, training then go for something that is needed and has value in the market. 
You have a degree it is not worthless it is a foot in the door use it . Your future may not include working in that field, the time and money you spent was just a delay in joining the real world. Welcome to the real world now run with it .


----------



## Jakthesoldier

Maybe you should have gotten a degree in something useful?


----------



## Smitty901

3 children college we all worked to pay for it and get it done. Not 1 in the field they went for. All three agreed early on it was nothing but a liberal cesspool. We wanted them to do it so they could see that for their self.


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## tinkerhell

some bachelor degrees like engineering and IT is all that you need to work in industry. in fact, proceeding to a Masters or a doctors is a waste of time unless you want to work in research/education.

other bachelor degrees are a bad idea....for some people. The BA student that doesn't go on to be a doctor will get lab technician jobs. I'm a technician in my field so I don't think that a tech position is all that bad. However, I think people that take a Bachelors degree in biology might have romanticized about being a doctor, and may be disappointed when they find themselves testing blood in lab. Ofcourse, there are many lab jobs filled by people that truly enjoy their work.

on the other hand, I know a person that has a bachelors degree that worked in a veterinary clinic, she lost 10 years trying to gain entrance into the vetrinary doctors program in Canada, then eventually headed off to morocco of some weird place to get her doctors degree. I have to question the wisdom in this, because her degree will be costing her her entire life savings and putting her into debt. Once she is done, she will probably come back to work in the same clinic that she always worked in. Unless she wants to run her own practise, is this really a good decision to reboot her life like this? I'm not convinced that it is. Personally, it sounds as bad an idea as me going back to school to be an engineer. just my opinion. it isn't perfect


----------



## Mish

I gotta disagree with you guys. I still believe that a college degree is something to work towards! You better believe I'm going to push my son to seek a higher education out of HS! BUT, I'm going to do my best to teach him that the fluffy, dime a dozen degrees aren't where his focus should be. ( I think we also ruined our kids by telling them to do something they like...lol What we like doesn't always translate into a great career path!!)
Study: Income Gap Between Young College and High School Grads Widens - US News


----------



## Slippy

Mrs Slippy is one of the smartest people that I know. Shortly after we married she came skipping up to me and handed me her student loans which we (I) paid off. Then she got her Masters Degree in Statistics which we (I) paid for. She worked for a couple of years then got pregnant and retired back in 1990 while still in her late 20's. Looking back on that it was a marvelous and clever use of not just 1, but 2 Degrees. She not only got us (me) to pay for them, she didn't even use them! 

I would often call her while working out of town (when our boys were young) and ask her if she was using this advanced degree in Stats that we (I) paid for? It was an ongoing joke and she would answer something like..."Yes dear, the probability that one of our children will crap their diaper or draw on the wall with a crayon is 100%. How is your day going?"

EDIT; I would usually bite my tongue and not reply but in my head I was saying, "Well dear the probability of me getting a good meal, drinking a 6 pack and watching sports in my hotel room while in my underwear and nobody bothering me is 100%...so Na Ne Na Ne Boo Boo.


----------



## SGT E

SGT E said:


> Delete...sorry!


Was too Inebriated at the time and caught myself before I screwed up!


----------



## Mish

SGT E said:


> Was too Inebriated at the time and caught myself before I screwed up!


That's no fun!!! lol 
I like smacking drunk people around!! hehe


----------



## Slippy

SGT E said:


> Was too Inebriated at the time and caught myself before I screwed up!


What is this foreign gibberish that my good friend SGT E speaks of?

"Too Inebriated" and "Catching oneself BEFORE they screw up"? This makes absolutely no sense to me! :icon_smile:


----------



## Farmboyc

I do not regret my degree even though I have spent more than half my working career to-date in another field.

I would say that there is a major issue with how most high school students pick their college majors IMO. They do what people here have eluded too they either go with what their parents want or pursue a fantasy dream job that has been glorified by Hollywood. 

What they don't do is an actual career investigation with realistic starting wage/position availability, benefits, and talk to people in the industry. 
I initially wanted to be a wildlife officer but upon further investigation I found out that there were very few entry level positions avaliable and the pay sucked?

I then settled on forestry because the prospects were better and chose a co-op degree to increase my exposure to the field and make contacts. Graduated walked into a job with one of my co-op placements and worked there for 5 yrs.

Industry took a downturn and things became unpleasant at work so I jumped into the environmental side of the oilfield. Been through some ups and downs with the patch and have found myself mowing grass, building fences, loading and delivering building materials, and now climbing incinerator stacks to measure emissions.

Through it all I believe my degree has given me an ability to consume and understand the information required to begin in a new field(s). Had I went the wildlife officer route I think I would have ended up working in a campground or in retail but tough to tell really.


----------



## Stick

Lady_Husker said:


> Wow, this thread really took off in a big hurry didn't it? Well here are a few of my personal bits in regards to other's comments:
> 
> First and foremost: I DO NOT BELIEVE I AM ENTITLED TO ANYTHING. While a good portion of my generation does, I am not a member of that crowd. I just find it a little bit sad that a person with a degree has a harder time landing a job than a person without one. For example, I had no trouble finding retail jobs prior to my graduation but now retail won't touch me. Why? Three store managers, whom I've called to follow up on applications, all told me that I was over qualified. Fast food gave me the same answer.
> 
> Second: Yes, it was my personal choice to pursue college and a degree in psychology. It was my personal choice to be the second person in my entire family to hold a college degree. It was my personal choice to want better for my life. It was my personal choice to attempt to be a productive member of society rather than a welfare leech (like so many in the community I came from). Even more importantly, it was my personal choice to pick a field that offers a chance at helping other people.
> 
> Third: While I mentioned above that I did make the personal choice to purse psychology and accept all the responsibility that came with my choice, anyone who does not think that the government has a hand in the fate of college graduates is, frankly, delusional. As I had previously mentioned, my aunt (the only other person in my family to graduate college) graduated with a B.A. roughly ten years ago. She had to turn down employers. The opportunities that existed ten years ago no longer exists today. A little bit of detective work on the subject clearly points to the government. They don't want people to be self-sufficient anymore. They want everyone on the welfare system...they want everyone dependent upon them.
> 
> Fourth: Although I made another post about this, I am going to say it again because I feel it is important: I am not throwing a pity party for myself or anyone else in my generation. My only goal here was to encourage others not to buy into the "Go to college" bullsh*t unless going to college was already something he/she wanted to do. Furthermore, talking about my life experiences is not something I'm overly good at and the only reason I talk about them here is I felt comfortable with a lot of the people here. I was confident that people would see my post for what it was and not as some excuse or otherwise.
> 
> Fifth: I'm not a moron, people. I know that I have to continue in my education in order to do anything significant with a psych degree. No one is going to let a B.A. walking in and become chief psychologists at a mental health hospital. Likewise, no university is going to hire and tenure someone with on a B.A. For crying out loud, don't assume I'm stupid because I find it sad I don't have a job. I never, for one moment, thought I would get some high-grade job with only a B.A. Really, I would like a job at a bakery or a craft store. So yes, I knew damn well I wasn't going to hit the ground running with a B.A. but I sure as hell wasn't expecting to be denied jobs I would have easily landed prior to graduation.
> 
> Finally, I appreciate the suggestions that have been given, and (if I am able) I have been looking into them. I may be some wet-behind-the-ears 20-something, but I sure as hell am not a quitter. Learned my lesson about sharing my own experiences though.


I wonder if there are still BA level case management jobs in community mental health settings. Keep plugging away at the Masters. Class here, another one there, the credits add up. And keep your mind open...I have always been of the notion that, if you haven't changed your major at least twice, then you haven't really been to college.:cheerful:


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## Mish

Here, I found you a job! hehe
Working


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## Smitty901

Mish said:


> I gotta disagree with you guys. I still believe that a college degree is something to work towards! You better believe I'm going to push my son to seek a higher education out of HS! BUT, I'm going to do my best to teach him that the fluffy, dime a dozen degrees aren't where his focus should be. ( I think we also ruined our kids by telling them to do something they like...lol What we like doesn't always translate into a great career path!!)
> Study: Income Gap Between Young College and High School Grads Widens - US News


 Mish I know laborers that are making 100K a year plus benefits. Studies like the one you posted have an agenda They leave out a large part of the skilled crafts.


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## Mish

Smitty901 said:


> Mish I know laborers that are making 100K a year plus benefits. Studies like the one you posted have an agenda They leave out a large part of the skilled crafts.


Oh, I'm not against learning a valuable trade instead of college!! That's great! I just want my son to realize he's going to have to LEARN HOW TO DO SOMETHING after HS if he wants to be paid well.

As for the study, yeah, they all have an agenda. I had one posting it. Hehe But, I also agree with the angle it was presented.


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## Denton

Lady_Husker said:


> I graduated with my bachelor's of psychology back in May. I spent five years and thousands of dollars while being under the impression it would be worth the investment. From the time I was a young child, my family and the school systems told me that a college education is the only way to make a good living when you lack trade skills. So here I sit, three months after graduating with hardly any money, no job, and loan debt. Despite putting in dozens and dozens of applications for everything from retail to government jobs, I remain unemployed even in a red state that has relatively low unemployment.
> 
> I don't regret learning because I love learning, but if I had known that my B.A. was going to be so useless, I would have followed my dreams. Everyone told me I could never make a good living doing what I wanted to do so I picked the next best thing. So to all the preppers on here who are considering pursuing higher education, don't pick a field you think you will be successful in...pick a field you will love. You may not have a job at the end of it, but at least you will not have wasted your time and money on something you didn't care much for.
> 
> This is the price that is being paid for the crappy economy that our government has made.


I'm sorry, but I'll not go along with the notion that your educational choice has anything to do with the government. You know what? Had you spent two years and a fraction of the money pursuing airframe and powerplant cetificates, you would have had a job right after obtaining them.

You know, Denton wasted a few years chasing a bachelors in criminal justice. It made sense as I was already in the field. A few years later, I attended a local aviation college, which got me a job with Sikorsky. That got me experience, and I used that to get a job only fifteen minutes from the house.

A&P or avionics isn't the only way to go. There are other technical jobs that require formal training. Jobs that will pay you over 100k/year.

A whole lot of people have run down the wrong educational path, but it is difficult to blame the government or counselors. Considering we all have the ability to research everything on the internet, there is even less excuse.

You might be saying, Denton, you jerk, I really want to be a psychiatrist!" Well, fine. I really wanted to be a beach bum, and had you asked the 20 year old Denton if he would ever be working on helicopters in the heat and humidity of Alabama 20 year old Denton would have asked you if you were doing drugs. Still, Denton is doing it, making good money and prepping for bad days because he can afford it.

As a matter of fact, gotta go to work, now. See y'all!


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## Smitty901

Mish said:


> Oh, I'm not against learning a valuable trade instead of college!! That's great! I just want my son to realize he's going to have to LEARN HOW TO DO SOMETHING after HS if he wants to be paid well.
> 
> As for the study, yeah, they all have an agenda. I had one posting it. Hehe But, I also agree with the angle it was presented.


 Nothing wrong with that and if college is the path then make it count avoid the most liberal ones and pick something of value not a feel good degree. Last understand that the degree is just the foot in the door you actually have to do something not just show up. (unless you land a government job).


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## Smitty901

Also life is not all about money. My daughter's goal was to teach public school. But when she found out what it really was she walked away. She has devoted her life to serving others and trust me Unless your are Hilary' charity does not pay well. She however will be ok family will see to that. I respect her even more for standing her ground.
Her bothers filled my requirement of attend college also, then promptly joined the Army infantry. Something else I respect and support.


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## MisterMills357

It gets worse, society seems to have become deviant or evilish. Those weirdos that you read about, have become plentiful out here in America.
I ain't sayin' that all is lost, but I am sayin', get a 9mm and keep it handy.:smug:


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## tinkerhell

Psychology, eh?

I suggest that you apply for an apprentice as an electrician.

You will get the job if you say the say the following in the interview "the light bulb can change itself, but it will take a long time, and it will have to want to change"


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## Urinal Cake

Slippy said:


> Lady Husker,
> 
> I like you, I really do, but I cannot help myself so bear with me OK? Please don't get mad.
> 
> First... dinosaurs have not been around for, what, like a thousand years or so?
> 
> Second...Psychology...Really?
> 
> And C...Environment Science? What in the world is that?
> 
> Thoughts?...and please stay with me. I want to help.
> 
> Your new friend,
> 
> Slippy
> 
> PS Let us know if we can help.


Slippy she sounds cute, right?


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## Arklatex

College ain't for everyone. I'm making big bucks as a millwright. All I had to do was pass a written and hands on test at a factory. A lil of that rare common sense goes a long way. Just the thoughts of a blue collar man. I make a lot more than most of my kin that's been college edumacated. In case you missed it Mrs. Mish put up a link to a job you could get. Good luck!


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## NotTooProudToHide

Lady_Husker said:


> I graduated with my bachelor's of psychology back in May. I spent five years and thousands of dollars while being under the impression it would be worth the investment. From the time I was a young child, my family and the school systems told me that a college education is the only way to make a good living when you lack trade skills. So here I sit, three months after graduating with hardly any money, no job, and loan debt. Despite putting in dozens and dozens of applications for everything from retail to government jobs, I remain unemployed even in a red state that has relatively low unemployment.
> 
> I don't regret learning because I love learning, but if I had known that my B.A. was going to be so useless, I would have followed my dreams. Everyone told me I could never make a good living doing what I wanted to do so I picked the next best thing. So to all the preppers on here who are considering pursuing higher education, don't pick a field you think you will be successful in...pick a field you will love. You may not have a job at the end of it, but at least you will not have wasted your time and money on something you didn't care much for.
> 
> This is the price that is being paid for the crappy economy that our government has made.


My brother and I totally feel your pain. I got mine in history back in 2006 and the only jobs I've been able to even get interviews for have been public safety or service industry management. I lucked out and got a decent job as a 911 dispatcher but it still only requires a high school diploma. Now my only real option is to go back for an advanced degree so I can teach or go to law school

***EDIT***
I guess I'm not totally being fair, between the time I graduated and now I've had several good paying jobs but they all require shift work including weekends and holidays. I'm just getting burned out on working on Christmas and turning my life upside down working midnights. I'm ready for that Monday-Friday day hours with holidays off making what I make now. I guess I'm kind of spoiled but thats what I want and thats what I'm working for. Not to meantion the fact that after working with the public in the service industry and public saftey you find out that people suck lol.


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## PaulS

The one thing that I learned in college was how to find the information I need to complete a task. (I learned a lot about religion and how it "progressed" through the centuries too)
What a degree tells me is:
1. you stuck with a task long enough to get it completed.
2. you need to work - to support yourself and pay off the loans - that means you are likely to stick around.
3. you know that you know less than you want to know and more than most of the people with your age and work history.

So, the degree has value outside it's limited scope. People with a two year psych degree scare the crap out of me! I was there once and I know now how ignorant I was then - but I thought I had enough knowledge to deal with other peoples problems - Now I know I can't deal with other peoples problems but I might be able to get them to find a way that works for them.


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## NotTooProudToHide

I'd say part of the issue to is your much more likely to land a good job if your qualified and you know the right people. Building your network is more important than getting the degree itsself. I've found this out first hand. You can't discount the degree though because even once you start to know people you still need to meet the basic qualifications.


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## Gimble

Those goes back quite a few messages, but if you're having trouble getting a job due to "over qualification", remove the over qualifications from your resume and apply again. There is no reason that your local retail store needs to know that you have a college degree.

I tailor my resume to every job I apply for, with good results. I'm not saying to lie or to violate your integrity, just to be the person the employer wants... and if they don't want a college grad, then don't tell them you are one and disqualify yourself.


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## dsdmmat

Just a thought.

The V.A. Will hire you as a counselor, you will work under a doctor and be managed by a person with a Master's Degree but at least you will be using your degree and getting paid while you go for your Master's. In some cases you can even get the V.A. To pay for your Master's courses while you are working in the field. There is a great need of psyc care in the VA system.


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## shooter

It tough out there. 

First off don't think of the degree as a bad thing and ignore anyone who thinks you wasted time getting it. If nothing else you learned valuable time management skills while in collage. Your probably also learned how to deal with a chaotic bureaucracy while dealing with the school and getting classes which will come in handy many times in your life. And these are just the beginning of some of the skills you learned, that you may not have realized you learned while at school. 

Secondly, A psychology degree is not a waste like many people think it is. You have a better understanding of how people think, and behave then most people. This give you a huge advantage in dealing with people. If you do things right you will quickly be able to turn conversations into a direction you prefer or that might show off your straights. This can come in super important in job interviews and in many of your work and personal situations. 

Third, Maybe looking for work in your home state is the wrong place to work. Many of my friends from collage had problems finding work in the area we went to school. However once they started looking else where they found plenty of job opportunities. Some of which where even willing to may for their relocation. 

Fourth, While you may not use your degrees as employment right now they can come back to help you at a later date. I had a friend who had a masters in Art History. After teaching for a few years he realized he hated teaching and without a doctorate he did not qualify for many of the jobs he wanted at museums or working with archaeologist. So he got a job working with the art department on film set. (despite its name it has nothing to do with art.) It is a physical job but pays well and he enjoyed the work. One day he was hurt on the job and it was pretty bad. There was no way to return to being on his feet for 10-12 hours a day 6 days a week. So he started looking for a new career/job. He was amazed how many interviews he got even for fields that had nothing to do with art history. And after he finally had a job offer he thought he would enjoy and took it he asked what got him the edge to be offered the job. His boss said by having his degrees it showed he could stick though something, and that having 2 career changes you are willing to learn new skills and work in a wide variety of positions, and I can teach you the skills I need of you quickly but the skills of commitment and being able to stick though things and adapt are things he found more valuable that can't be shown. 

Be smart with getting loans and and work a few extra shirts a starbucks if that's saves you from another loan. Look for jobs that will pay for higher education. Look at non-profit an civil service places as they might not pay the best but sometimes they have deals where if you work there for x amount of years your collage dept can be forgiven. And lastly don't be afraid to loom out of state. You don't have to live where ever that job is forever but it might get you started and then later on when you have more experience you can find other jobs closer to where you want to live.

Hope this helps a bit.


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## Real Old Man

Lady_Husker said:


> Hey, I made a friend! Mommy would be so proud :glee:
> 
> First, I am a Christian but I believe in deep time. It is a long, detailed thought process that I don't feel like typing here lol
> 
> Second, yes, really. The best way to fight an enemy is to understand the enemy. You would not combat a person who is merely mentally ill the same way you would a terrorist who is so far beyond help that a bullet is all you can do.
> 
> And Environmental Studies is the new liberal field aimed at tricking gullible youth into blindly following the climate change and EPA crowd. Unfortunately, they grouped geology under this field and geology is key to obtaining a higher degree specialized for paleontology. So many hoops in the education system all designed to warp the minds of American youth. Sadly, it is working all too well.


Actually there aren't all that many folks that are truely mentally ill. Oh there's a lot that have been tried and convicted as such because a justice system seems to leave them a way to avoid responsibility. But most at the pace I used to work are just as sane as you or I. Maybe not as sane as MM or Denton or Mish, but most can dance better.

As for environmental jobs I'm working with an Environmental INspector and we're dealing with the owners of a housing complex and a deliberate diversion of raw sewage.

Come on out and get your hands dirty. And I guarentee you'll see some really wacked - sane folks

Welcome aboard


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## LunaticFringeInc

I feel you on that. I have a friend that got a BA in that and I am making more than she is as a Drivers Ed instructor and I aint even working full time! How screwed is that? So Called "Higher Education" is often times not worth the paper the degree is printed on not to mention debt I am sure she will be strapped with for the next couple of decades at least.


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## Real Old Man

dsdmmat said:


> Just a thought.
> 
> The V.A. Will hire you as a counselor, you will work under a doctor and be managed by a person with a Master's Degree but at least you will be using your degree and getting paid while you go for your Master's. In some cases you can even get the V.A. To pay for your Master's courses while you are working in the field. There is a great need of psyc care in the VA system.


Don't know where you live, but USAJOBS lists over 1000 psychologist positions


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## Charles Martel

I've been thinking about your situation. Here's what you need to do.

-Your minor in Environmental Studies is more valuable than your major in Psychology (the environmental field is growing rapidly, and there is a significant demad for qualified environmental professionals). I would leverage that minor, and any environmental experience I had, if I were you.

-Rework your resume to emphasize your environmental minor (including all applicable coursework) and any environmental experience you have. 

*Seriously...embellish and exaggerate a little bit if you have to (fake it until you make, baby!). If you need a reference backing up your claimed experience, I'll go out on a limb for you. I'm a senior/principle geologist with an geo-environmental firm. That will carry some weight. 

-Get your environmental certs. Find a place that teaches the Hazwoper 40 hour training course, take your state's soils and groundwater certification class, and get licensed to do sampling for LUST/UST closures in your state. These certs will make you far more attractive to an employer looking to hire an environmental/sampling technician. 

-Once you have those certs, hop online and make a list of all the environmental and geotechnical firms in your area. Take your reworked resume to them in person so that you are not just another anonymous candidate, then follow up like crazy. Get to know the hiring managers of each firm.

I'd be surprised if you didn't land an environmental/sampling technician job within a couple months if you did that. Those jobs can pay anywhere between $16.00 and $25.00 per hour right out of the gate. You can earn a good wage in a rewarding field while you pay down your student debt and re-think your educational/career path. Because you DO have a college degree, there's a good chance you could work yourself into a supervisory position fairly quickly.


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## rice paddy daddy

Denton said:


> Had you spent two years and a fraction of the money pursuing airframe and powerplant cetificates, you would have had a job right after obtaining them.
> 
> You know, Denton wasted a few years chasing a bachelors in criminal justice. It made sense as I was already in the field. A few years later, I attended a local aviation college, which got me a job with Sikorsky. That got me experience, and I used that to get a job only fifteen minutes from the house.


Is Sikorsky still part of United Technologies?
My Dad came of age during the Great Depression. Going to college was unheard of at that time for all but a few. So Dad went to a two year aeronautical school (Wentworth Institute in Boston), graduated in 1938 and went right to work for Pratt & Whitney as a mechanics helper. Where he stayed his entire working career, rising through the ranks to the highest level you could get without an engineering degree.
He made, and saved, enough to enjoy a comfortable retirement.

Another big money career that does not require college, but does require specialized training, is factory automotive mechanic. Those guys and gals that work in the shop at dealerships. Many manufacturers will pay for the schooling in exchange for a commitment to work for that brand (Ford, BMW, whatever).
If I had life to do over again, I would have made that choice. But I'm glad I don't have to do life over again. Once is fine.
As Bob Dylan sang: "I sit here so patiently, trying to find out what price, you have to pay to get out of, going through all these things twice. Oh! Mama! Can this really be the end? To be stuck inside of Mobile, with the Memphis blues again?"


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## James m

I had a friend that now makes parts for Sikorsky. On some computer generated machine. Technically you don't need anything to work in IT. My $300 certification tests got me more than my college work. My 2 years in carpentry and woodworking got me $10.


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## warrior4

I'm one of the success stories about my college education. While I've always been smart and I'm also lazy and developed poor study habits in high school. So when I went to college I majored in something I enjoyed as a way to help with my studying. It's easier for me to work or study something I enjoy. Four years later I graduated with a Bachelors of Science (that's right I really did get a BS degree) in Community Recreation. Used it for a few years too working for the Boy Scouts and a few different YMCA's. However my childhood dream was always to be a Firefighter. Due to health concerns that option was closed to me. So after getting to a major transition point I said to myself, "Self, what else gets to go screaming down the streets with lights and sirens blazing?" The answer of course EMS and PD. Nothing against cops but I never wanted to be a cop. Which left EMS and going back into class for EMT and later Paramedic. About three years later and with a lot of assistance from my family I got my Paramedic licence. Now three years after that I'm married, have paid off the balance of paramedic school, make enough money to pay my bills and loans along with some extra to save and splurge, and am within four months of paying off the first of my Bachelors loans. 

There is hope. My wife has 7 years of higher education under her belt. She came out of school with a clinical doctorate in Psychical Therapy. Yes I know she had to go onto grad school before getting her current job. However there are jobs out there. Three months out of school yes it can be hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Keep on working like you are now and hopefully in a few months you'll find something .


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## Denton

rice paddy daddy said:


> Is Sikorsky still part of United Technologies?
> My Dad came of age during the Great Depression. Going to college was unheard of at that time for all but a few. So Dad went to a two year aeronautical school (Wentworth Institute in Boston), graduated in 1938 and went right to work for Pratt & Whitney as a mechanics helper. Where he stayed his entire working career, rising through the ranks to the highest level you could get without an engineering degree.
> He made, and saved, enough to enjoy a comfortable retirement.
> 
> Another big money career that does not require college, but does require specialized training, is factory automotive mechanic. Those guys and gals that work in the shop at dealerships. Many manufacturers will pay for the schooling in exchange for a commitment to work for that brand (Ford, BMW, whatever).
> If I had life to do over again, I would have made that choice. But I'm glad I don't have to do life over again. Once is fine.
> As Bob Dylan sang: "I sit here so patiently, trying to find out what price, you have to pay to get out of, going through all these things twice. Oh! Mama! Can this really be the end? To be stuck inside of Mobile, with the Memphis blues again?"


I believe they were recently sold to Lockheed/Martin. I don't think that will be good for Sikorsky.


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## James m

I forgot who makes the osprey v22. At least Sikorsky didn't go to Boeing. Boeing sucks!! I always wondered what Igor Sikorsky thought about the cold war....

But anyway it is really hard to break into any industry until you have something on your resume. A former employer in the industry. Can't your college help? Don't they have a career services center. Hey they owe you the way I see it, you probably spent $20,000 with them at least.


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## rice paddy daddy

Back when my Dad was with P&W, United Technologies was P&W, Sikorski Helicopter, Hamilton Standard Propeller, and Otis Elevators.
My Dads last assignment, and the reason we moved to Florida in the late 1950's, was in High Altitude Test, developing the engines for the SR-71 Blackbird. My Dad was a small part of that.


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## phrogman

James m said:


> I forgot who makes the osprey v22. At least Sikorsky didn't go to Boeing. Boeing sucks!! I always wondered what Igor Sikorsky thought about the cold war....
> 
> But anyway it is really hard to break into any industry until you have something on your resume. A former employer in the industry. Can't your college help? Don't they have a career services center. Hey they owe you the way I see it, you probably spent $20,000 with them at least.


Boeing makes the plopter.


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