# The Bolt Action Rifle



## Darza44 (Nov 19, 2015)

A few guys at work and I where talking about firearms in today's world. The guys at work claim the AR-15 to be the end all be of firearms(in a civilian context). While my own views are of a old way of thinking. I think that the bold action rifle, while not perfect excels in many areas that the AR-15 style of rifles cannot match it(and vise-versa). The bolt-action is the rifle of a time when craftsmanship was reprized and the rifles made were the symbols of a nations might and standing in the world. It is a weapon that if put in the hands of a trained individual, can be a devastating force. 

Also the same can be said of an AR-15 as far as a trained user. The "rifles" of today lack the craftsmanship of the past and has generally become a symbol of people who feel they can throw money at there poor abilities.

The AR-15 style rifle shows how dependent people of our society have become upon technology. This is most evident in the fact that most AR rifles do not come with iron sights or are considered an afterthought. They say that the AR is there go to gun in a SHTF type scenario, yet you see these people with there ACOGs and Aimpoints. But what will they do when it breaks of the batteries die? They rely on these things to much to the point of ineptitude with regards to iron sights.

How ever it is not all negatives to the AR. It excels in areas that the bolt-action cannot compete. The AR is good for closeup type engagements and being highly changeable but little else. The AR shooter tends to waste his ammunition and fires without thinking in terms of precision. 

While the bolt-action is good at long-medium ranges. It is poor for close-up roles. However it makes up for it in a number of areas. 
- Conservation of ammo. ( 30 rounds in a bolt-action and last a patent shooters months)
- The trained shooter thinks about every shoot he fires ensuring that he will find his mark with every pull of the trigger.
- There is a comfort in knowing that the rifle of wood and iron was used by thousands of men in battle and knowing that they were able to do thing unmatched be today's standards.

In closing the bolt-action rifle is like that of a sword or spear. Taking much time to master and can do unparalleled things in the hands of a true marksman.
While the AR is more like a "Tactical Knife" that is a weapon that tries to do it all.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Different tools for different jobs. Up close nothing beats an AK. Long range ARs and AKs fail. Bird hunting and up close 12 gauge is great. Bolt actions have their place.


----------



## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

If I need 3 MOA at 100 yards or less I use my AR.
If I need 1 MOA at 100 yards or more I use my .270 Win. bolt action.

If I need anything over 500 yards I disengage.


----------



## Darza44 (Nov 19, 2015)

I agree the AK is the perfect weapon for a close-up fight as well as the best modern rifle ever made.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Darza44 said:


> A few guys at work and I where talking about firearms in today's world. The guys at work claim the AR-15 to be the end all be of firearms(in a civilian context). While my own views are of a old way of thinking. I think that the bold action rifle, while not perfect excels in many areas that the AR-15 style of rifles cannot match it(and vise-versa). The bolt-action is the rifle of a time when craftsmanship was reprized and the rifles made were the symbols of a nations might and standing in the world. It is a weapon that if put in the hands of a trained individual, can be a devastating force.
> 
> Also the same can be said of an AR-15 as far as a trained user. The "rifles" of today lack the craftsmanship of the past and has generally become a symbol of people who feel they can throw money at there poor abilities.
> 
> ...


Chill out dude. Do you over-think everything?


----------



## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

There's always a place at the table for a good bolt action rifle ... always! If, however, I had to take one to gunfight (inside 200 yards) it would be the AR every time. I feel much better having 30 rounds on board versus five. Moreover, I shoot my AR's as well with irons as I do with optics. Not as fast, mind you, but as accurately.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I have more than one wrench, screwdriver, and hammer......... I also have more than one pair of pants.


----------



## Darza44 (Nov 19, 2015)

I would op for an AK though due the lack of maintenance required. However a weapon should be cleaned regardless if it isn't required. I guess I just have an older way of thinking.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Darza44 said:


> I would op for an AK though due the lack of maintenance required. However a weapon should be cleaned regardless if it isn't required. I guess I just have an older way of thinking.


Or........ your not really that into guns as you will only allow yourself to suffer through owning just one.


----------



## Darza44 (Nov 19, 2015)

No. I own many guns, but I just feel that some excel more that others


----------



## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Hey man whats that stuff called...










Labador


----------



## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

The age old struggle...

My wife thinks I have too many and my friends say I don't have enough. :armata_PDT_36:



Darza44 said:


> Or........ your not really that into guns as you will only allow yourself to suffer through owning just one.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The idea that AKs don't require as much maintenance is an internet myth. Yes, they work in more adverse conditions due to lower tolerances, but without proper maintenance, those tolerances begin to greatly affect accuracy.

The primary reason an AR would be the ideal SHTF rifle is not due to its superiority over any other option. The primary reason is that they will be the most readily available option for resupply in whatever scenario you encounter. They are in every police department and military base in the country and compatible ammunition is ubiquitous.
AR users will outlast all others when supplies run out.
You may start out with a bolt gun or AK, but you'll end up with an AR eventually.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Darza44 said:


> No. I own many guns, but I just feel that some excel more that others


Do you have a favorite for target practice at goat jockeys?


----------



## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

The one that causes the most amount of pain and the least amount of instant death.

I want them to hurt. And I want them to hurt for a long time.



A Watchman said:


> Do you have a favorite for target practice at goat jockeys?


----------



## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

I do believe Slippy nailed it, but my 2 cents. . . 

1. Whichever I have when I need one is better than any I don't. 

2. Pistol < shotgun < rifle

3. What I can train with consistently and use well is better than what is a safe queen that I only pull out once a year to ring that 1000 yard gong because it or the ammo or both are expensive.

All the firearms I own are meant to be tools and they all have their uses. Some overlap, while others are specialized. That's what makes them fun - learning and shooting each.


----------



## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

There is a place for the bolt rifle when shtf happens. Among the other guns in my safe are 2 Mauser's in 8 mm. One was made in 1917! It still shoots and probably better than I can. Old world craftsmanship just can't be beat.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

OP......... you threw this out there........you going to join in?


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I own several of both. Most of the AR's are just as accurate as the bolt guns. Aren't we splitting hairs when the AR will shoot 1 MOA and the bolt guns shoot .5 MOA. Plan is to sell off the bolt guns as I don't need a 5 or less shot rifle when I can have 20-30 rounds.


----------



## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I hope any opposition looks at the nestalga of the sharp stick and the blunt stone over any AR. 

I wish you lived closer I would take you to my back deck steel course and time who is first with lead on target at the different distances. Their is a good reason three gun is not shot with a bolt action.


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

My Brookfield Precision built M25's will shoot sub MOA, 7.62 nato, 20 rounds.
They will cover a lot of ground, but an AR, AK, Galil AR is needed for 2 and under.
No tool covers all.
I even have a 03a4 in mint condition, the only thing it has over the M25 is it can use APM2.
I have all bases covered anyways.


----------



## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

Heres a five shot group with my inferior AR and a Shepherd Scope






and here is another at 2 hundred


----------



## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

Now to be fair I shoot a lot, I also shoot f-class with an AR usually between 135-145 points, out of 150 points against other rifles that cost 4 to 5 times what mine costs, I also love my bolt guns, i find most "Bad" shooting rifles are either the owners bad habits, a poorly set up platform, or their ammo selection.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

There are many semi auto rifels that can shoot right along side most bolt action today. If you move on to very high end custom rifles few ever have the chance to use them to their fullest. While my AR would not be my first choice to take a deer. Shtf my AR will be in my hand. The AK will be against the wall just in case they get inside.


----------



## 2000ShadowACE (Jan 14, 2014)

I have a smpling of both AR style fireams and bolt action rifles. The AR is capable out to 800 yards according to my training with the Marines. However, I prefer the bolt action 30 cal rifles for anything over 300 yards. I feel the bolt is a much more stable platform for distance shooting. However, I have seen trained marksmen drop targets at 1k yards with the 5.56. That being said, In a shtf scenario the first gun I'm likely to reach for is my 20 ga. pump. It's idiot proof unlike the AR it is capable of dropping a 200 lb target at 200 yards with sabots and it can engage multiple targets at once with heavy bird shot as in number 2 or bb shot. It also has advantages over the 30 cal bolt in that a box of shell is about half the cost.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Mosinator762x54r said:


> The age old struggle...
> 
> My wife thinks I have too many and my friends say I don't have enough. :armata_PDT_36:


My wife doesn't know how many I own. She has never seen them together all at once. All she knows is when I go to the range, I usually take a dozen.
Or more. :joyous:

As far as bolt actions, I have a few, mainly milsurps. The best shooting/slickest action one I have is a Mauser K98k. Beats the snot out of my Remington Model 1903A3.

Most likely no one here will ever be in a gun fight with their life on the line (although some already have), but think about this for a moment: The US Rifle, Cal 30, M1 in the hands of American GI's always proved to be superior to German and Japanese bolt action rifles. :armata_PDT_25:


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> My wife doesn't know how many I own. She has never seen them together all at once. All she knows is when I go to the range, I usually take a dozen.
> Or more. :joyous:
> 
> As far as bolt actions, I have a few, mainly milsurps. The best shooting/slickest action one I have is a Mauser K98k. Beats the snot out of my Remington Model 1903A3.
> ...


 I might add a weapon you are fond of the M14 will shoot right along side many Bolt action 308's all day long, with a heck of a lot more rounds down range.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> I might add a weapon you are fond of the M14 will shoot right along side many Bolt action 308's all day long, with a heck of a lot more rounds down range.


I have a 1994 Springfield Armory M1A. 
Standard Model, the only accessories I have added are a USGI OD Green web sling, and a USGI M-6 bayonet.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Hemi45 said:


> There's always a place at the table for a good bolt action rifle ... always! If, however, I had to take one to gunfight (inside 200 yards) it would be the AR every time. I feel much better having 30 rounds on board versus five. Moreover, I shoot my AR's as well with irons as I do with optics. Not as fast, mind you, but as accurately.


Must be cheap optics as nearly all ARs have cheap irons.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> Must be cheap optics as nearly all ARs have cheap irons.


If you rely on optics, you're planning for failure.
My irons are as good as my optics out to 100 yds. I haven't found a longer range nearby to test additional distance.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> If you rely on optics, you're planning for failure.
> My irons are as good as my optics out to 100 yds. I haven't found a longer range nearby to test additional distance.


For irons I really like the lyman 57 peep or garand/M14 peeps.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Gunner's Mate said:


> Now to be fair I shoot a lot, I also shoot f-class with an AR usually between 135-145 points, out of 150 points against other rifles that cost 4 to 5 times what mine costs, I also love my bolt guns, i find most "Bad" shooting rifles are either the owners bad habits, a poorly set up platform, or their ammo selection.


For bad habits I'd add filthy barrels and actions.


----------



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

We still field Service members on the Modern Battlefield with Bolt Action Rifles as thier primary firearm and a sidearm as their secondary. Most of them return from their Tour of Duty. So I'll give the OP a little backup that "Spray and Pray" firearms aren't the end all of the "Battlefield". But Bolt Actions sure are easier to transport than the crew served weapons used to ferret out Snipers. :lol:


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

M118LR said:


> We still field Service members on the Modern Battlefield with Bolt Action Rifles as thier primary firearm and a sidearm as their secondary. Most of them return from their Tour of Duty. So I'll give the OP a little backup that "Spray and Pray" firearms aren't the end all of the "Battlefield". But Bolt Actions sure are easier to transport than the crew served weapons used to ferret out Snipers. :lol:


 Contrary to what movies show those few that have bolt action rifles are not at the lead they are most often in an over watch position and generally better protected that the grunt walking in. 
There are far more designated Marksman in the field than snipers and most of them use the M14 when filling those duties.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

M118LR said:


> We still field Service members on the Modern Battlefield with Bolt Action Rifles as thier primary firearm and a sidearm as their secondary. Most of them return from their Tour of Duty. So I'll give the OP a little backup that "Spray and Pray" firearms aren't the end all of the "Battlefield". But Bolt Actions sure are easier to transport than the crew served weapons used to ferret out Snipers. :lol:


And the sniper's whole purpose is to whack the opponent when the opponent is not only not looking, but doesn't even know the sniper is there.
Change that dynamic, and everything else changes too.


----------



## reartinetiller (Feb 26, 2015)

Grew up as a kid hunting with a single shot rifle. Now I got Autos and Bolt actiions. Still make the shots as if it was a single action. Roy


----------



## Springsprepper (Oct 25, 2015)

I look at guns like they are my chess pieces. They all have there purpose and areas they excel at. I think we should all have a rifle, and shotgun for close combat, a pistol for a secondary. A long range rifle for hunting, and a .22 for small game. Plenty of ammo and a back up of each one.


----------



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Contrary to what movies show those few that have bolt action rifles are not at the lead they are most often in an over watch position and generally better protected that the grunt walking in.
> There are far more designated Marksman in the field than snipers and most of them use the M14 when filling those duties.


Sorry Smitty901, the Primary component of the Forward Observation Group just happens to be the Guy armed with a Bolt Action Rifle. By the time a Marine (Grunt) or Army Infantry Soldier walks into a Combat Zone, the Guy with the Bolt Action Rifle has already been there and has probably moved further forward. Even the Tanks come up from the rear of those Bolt Action Toting Forward Observers. Ever heard the Motto First in and Last Out? For the USMC Folks, the motto sounds like "Death from afar". I can promise you that the M25/M-14 NM/M-14 is a support weapon for a Sniper/Forward Observer at best, at least since Nam. JMHO

Rice Patty Daddy, Professionals don't let the Battlefield Dynamics turn against them. To Quote "It's not your choice", Could be a Motto in there somewhere?


----------



## Viper (Jun 4, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Chill out dude. Do you over-think everything?


LMFAO. Be careful Slippy. Someone could take exception to your statement and plaster it all over the forum.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

M118LR said:


> Sorry Smitty901, the Primary component of the Forward Observation Group just happens to be the Guy armed with a Bolt Action Rifle. By the time a Marine (Grunt) or Army Infantry Soldier walks into a Combat Zone, the Guy with the Bolt Action Rifle has already been there and has probably moved further forward. Even the Tanks come up from the rear of those Bolt Action Toting Forward Observers. Ever heard the Motto First in and Last Out? For the USMC Folks, the motto sounds like "Death from afar". I can promise you that the M25/M-14 NM/M-14 is a support weapon for a Sniper/Forward Observer at best, at least since Nam. JMHO
> 
> Rice Patty Daddy, Professionals don't let the Battlefield Dynamics turn against them. To Quote "It's not your choice", Could be a Motto in there somewhere?


 I am sorry but were does this stuff come from.


----------



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Motto's like "Death From Afar", "It's not your choice", etc...? Google USMC Sniper Patches Smitty901, think Ya'll will find it interesting in a Military History kind of way. Here is another spot for a real quick link: http://www.freewebs.com/genericdraven/snipermottos.htm

https://www.google.com/search?q=sni...X&ved=0ahUKEwiU36zyl6PJAhUE6iYKHcKwBs0QsAQILg

http://cf.mp-cdn.net/55/96/e093a2847de9aa0cc95ac9b1a95c.jpg

Who knows how these Military Unit's come up with the Motto's/Creeds/Slogans or Unit Patches? They do add a little color to the "Esprit de Corps".

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/...ilitary-morale-3D-PVC-Velcro/1736804874.html#


----------

