# OK: Need canning help



## dwight55

I'm at a quandry, . . . hoping for some experience or super knowledge.

I'm a retired sailor, . . . but went yard sailing yesterday (or is that yard saleing???), . . . found several things. Among them were 4 each large mouth quart jars for a buck apiece, . . . with lids, . . . and a box of 36 pint jars, . . . got them for a quarter each. Also got an almost brand new Presto 6 quart pressure cooker.

The pressure cooker book says it cooks at 15 lbs pressure with a "rocker", . . . no gauge.

I have always canned my meat at 10-11 pounds, . . . and it has always been good.

Out on the "official" USDA or some such alphabet outfit, . . . they said not to use these cookers, . . . they would not get the food up to the right temperature. 

Yet 15 lbs pressure is 250 degrees, . . . 15 degrees higher than the 10-11 pounds I can at on my gauge canner.

Anyone got any real insight into this????

I'm really wanting to use this little guy as it holds 4 pints really nicely, . . . and would be just the thing for short runs on this or that from the garden, . . . but I also do not want to put myself and my family at risk.

Anyone????

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Blendingin

can you post a picture of what you bought? maybe find a item number or other identifier on the bottom? 
a lot of "canners" use the rocker bells so that is not the problem. however not all "cookers" can be used to can with.


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## Operator6

So the only difference is that one uses a gauge and one uses a "rocker" ? 

If so I would assume without a gauge the alphabet website determined the rocker is not reliable enough. 

Can you add a gauge or check the end product by another method ?


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## Operator6

http://foodsafety.wisc.edu/consumer/fact_sheets/pressurecannerandcooker.pdf

4th paragraph last sentence. They want a gauge on it if you're going to can with a cooker. .


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## Blendingin

^^^ that is not the way it works.. having a gauge or having a rocker or having both is not the issue. One of my cookers has only a rocker and is specifically made for canning, not cooking. 
there is a lot more involved than just adding a gauge which would be impossible without ruining the cooker anyway. If it was not specifically made for canning it should not be used to do so. a canner is designed to raise the temp and hold it at that temp long enough to kill off the bacteria in the food. using a cooker for this and it may not hold the temp high enough or consistently enough to do the job which would put you at risk for potential botulism poisoning.

Got anything else to say? @Operator6


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## Operator6

Blendingin said:


> ^^^ that is not the way it works.. having a gauge or having a rocker or having both is not the issue. One of my cookers has only a rocker and is specifically made for canning, not cooking.
> there is a lot more involved than just adding a gauge which would be impossible without ruining the cooker anyway. If it was not specifically made for canning it should not be used to do so. a canner is designed to raise the temp and hold it at that temp long enough to kill off the bacteria in the food. using a cooker for this and it may not hold the temp high enough or consistently enough to do the job which would put you at risk for potential botulism poisoning.
> 
> Got anything else to say? @Operator6


Yes @Blendingin I certainly do........

I posted a link to explicit information as to why a canner without a gauge isn't safe.

I never claimed to agree......take the info or not, I don't care.

Pressure canners and cookers all in
One unit do exist. 
https://www.amazon.com/Presto-01781-23-Quart-Pressure-Canner/dp/B0000BYCFU

I own a complete manufacturing facility and and build anything out of metal. I'll add a gauge to anything you can put on my bench.

You say " having a gauge or having a rocker or having both is not the issue "........Then what is the issue ?

You say you have a COOKER that has a rocker that is specifically made for canning, NOT COOKING"........so you cooker is not made for cooking........ Ok I guess I understand.....lol
!


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## A Watchman

Now, I have been a judge in many a pissin contests here at PF, but I gotta confess ....... I ain't quite sure how to measure this one ..........


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## OSOKILL

A Watchman said:


> Now, I have been a judge in many a pissin contests here at PF, but I gotta confess ....... I ain't quite sure how to measure this one ..........


guess you will just have to choose between the gauge judgin method and the rocker judgin method eh


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## Blendingin

Operator6 said:


> Yes @Blendingin I certainly do........
> 
> I posted a link to explicit information as to why a canner without a gauge isn't safe.
> 
> I never claimed to agree......take the info or not, I don't care.
> 
> Pressure canners and cookers all in
> One unit do exist.
> https://www.amazon.com/Presto-01781-23-Quart-Pressure-Canner/dp/B0000BYCFU
> 
> I own a complete manufacturing facility and and build anything out of metal. I'll add a gauge to anything you can put on my bench.
> Well lau de da! aren't you something special!
> 
> You say " having a gauge or having a rocker or having both is not the issue "........Then what is the issue ?


Well lau de da! aren't you something special!

As I explained in a prior post a COOKER that is not designed to be a CANNER, may not hold the temps at the proper temp at a consistent time period to kill bacteria. I have never said that a COOKER can not also be a CANNER, but it has to be designed to do both


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## Blendingin

A Watchman said:


> Now, I have been a judge in many a pissin contests here at PF, but I gotta confess ....... I ain't quite sure how to measure this one ..........


 @A Watchman Why do you imagine that Operator6 feels the need to follow me through the site to every post I make and start a fight? I don't understand it myself and have never had a problem with any other member here. He is the prime example of why so many good members have left or gotten banned and ended up on the orange site. I do not understand why the admins will never show they have a set and do anything about the people making this site into a facebook forum


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## Operator6

Blendingin said:


> Well lau de da! aren't you something special!
> 
> As I explained in a prior post a COOKER that is not designed to be a CANNER, may not hold the temps at the proper temp at a consistent time period to kill bacteria. I have never said that a COOKER can not also be a CANNER, but it has to be designed to do both


Yes that's why we concluded that a cooker without a gauge shouldn't be used for pressure canning. That's what the link I posted stated.

You say you have a cooker with just a rocker and it's specifically designed for canning, not cooking.

That's what the article link I posted was warning about. They want that gauge !!


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## A Watchman

Blendingin said:


> @A Watchman Why do you imagine that Operator6 feels the need to follow me through the site to every post I make and start a fight? I don't understand it myself and have never had a problem with any other member here. He is the prime example of why so many good members have left or gotten banned and ended up on the orange site. I do not understand why the admins will never show they have a set and do anything about the people making this site into a facebook forum


Beats me. Maybe he's just lonely, but what do I know?


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## Operator6

Blendingin said:


> @A Watchman Why do you imagine that Operator6 feels the need to follow me through the site to every post I make and start a fight? I don't understand it myself and have never had a problem with any other member here. He is the prime example of why so many good members have left or gotten banned and ended up on the orange site. I do not understand why the admins will never show they have a set and do anything about the people making this site into a facebook forum


So by clicking on new posts and responding with correct information I'm some how following you and starting fights ?

I never mentioned your name.....you quoted me. Go back to page 1 and read. How did my first two posts offend you ?

You posted wrong information and I posted links to correct information.......you offer nothing but opinion and resort to personal attacks instead of the subject.


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## Blendingin

Operator6 said:


> So by clicking on new posts and responding with correct information I'm some how following you and starting fights ?
> 
> You posted wrong information and I posted links to correct information.......you offer nothing but opinion and resort to personal attacks instead of the subject.


I did not post wrong information. I asked the OP for further information and let him know they were not all suitable to do both jobs. You of course see that I have posted something and attack like a rabid chihuahua.
I did not attack you and my "opinions" are based on a life time of knowledge. How long have you been canning? Can you even cook? But of course nobody could ever be right about anything but you, right? or am I wrong yet again?


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## Operator6

Blendingin said:


> I did not post wrong information. I asked the OP for further information and let him know they were not all suitable to do both jobs. You of course see that I have posted something and attack like a rabid chihuahua.
> I did not attack you and my "opinions" are based on a life time of knowledge. How long have you been canning? Can you even cook? But of course nobody could ever be right about anything but you, right? or am I wrong yet again?


You claimed you have a cooker with a rocker that's made specifically for canning, not cooking.

^^^^^ you still sticking with that ?

It's wrong info. You do not have a cooker that's specifically made for canning and not cooking.

If you would've read the original post, he stated he had the cookers manual and it explained how to infact can with the cooker. It's just that not everyone agrees that canning without a gauge can be dangerous.

He was getting info off an alphabet website that says you must use a gauge. Probably more current info than the cooker manual has, so there's your issue.


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## admin

Blendingin said:


> @A Watchman Why do you imagine that Operator6 feels the need to follow me through the site to every post I make and start a fight? I don't understand it myself and have never had a problem with any other member here. He is the prime example of why so many good members have left or gotten banned and ended up on the orange site. I do not understand why the admins will never show they have a set and do anything about the people making this site into a facebook forum


It is not up to mods and admins to determine which information is or isn't correct. We only determine if rules are being violated or not.

This community is for discussions. We don't have to agree on things. In fact, it would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything. As a community, we simply share our thoughts and then the readers can determine on their own as to what makes the most sense to them - they use what they can, and simply ignore the rest.

If you have an issue with a specific member, please take advantage of our *ignore* function.


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## A Watchman

Cricket said:


> It is not up to mods and admins to determine which information is or isn't correct. We only determine if rules are being violated or not.
> 
> This community is for discussions. We don't have to agree on things. In fact, it would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything. As a community, we simply share our thoughts and the the readers can determine on their own as to what makes the most sense to them - they use what they can, and simply ignore the rest.
> 
> If you have an issue with a specif member, please take advantage of our *ignore* function.


Darn it!!! Common sense prevails once again. How's a watchman to have any fun?


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## admin

A Watchman said:


> Darn it!!! Common sense prevails once again. How's a watchman to have any fun?


I actually like the fact that we don't agree on everything here. It's how I learn...


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## A Watchman

Cricket said:


> I actually like the fact that we don't agree on everything here. It's how I learn...


^^^^^ Smart Lady.


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## inceptor

Blendingin said:


> You of course see that I have posted something and attack like a rabid chihuahua.


First mistake, a chihuahua is not macho enough. It should be either a pitbull, rottweiler or something equally macho.



Blendingin said:


> I did not attack you and my "opinions" are based on a life time of knowledge. How long have you been canning? Can you even cook? But of course nobody could ever be right about anything but you, right? or am I wrong yet again?


Second mistake, you offered an opinion after he told you that you were wrong. He is a master of most if not all things. Just ask him and he will give you the correct opinion.


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## Operator6

How does the relief valve differ on a canner vs a cooker ?

The relief valve lets the pressure off...... The pot is sealed otherwise. 

Some pressure canners only use a weighted relief while other utilize a dual approach with a weight and a gauge.


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## inceptor

Operator6 said:


> How does the relief valve differ on a canner vs a cooker ?
> 
> The relief valve lets the pressure off...... The pot is sealed otherwise.
> 
> Some pressure canners only use a weighted relief while other utilize a dual approach with a weight and a gauge.


See, that's useful info. This is the reason I'm following this thread.


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## Operator6

inceptor said:


> See, that's useful info. This is the reason I'm following this thread.


All my info is useful for those that wish to receive it. Thanks for reading.....


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## rice paddy daddy

I believe I have gone off MY rocker.
It is time for bed.
Good night, y'all.
(Don't hurt each other, now)


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## Chiefster23

Just an FYI. I have worked with pressure gauges all my life. Unless specifically calibrated, most are very inaccurate. Especially the cheap gauges like those on pressure cookers. I will take the simmering weight method of measuring pressure in a pot over a cheap gauge any day.


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## Chiefster23

My mother, 88 years old, always used a canner that didn't have a gauge, only the weighted pressure release. I started my canning career with a cheap canner that only had a gauge, no weight. It was a pain in the a-- to constantly baby sit the canner and constantly adjust the gas stove to maintain exactly 10 psi in the canner. I've since traded up to an All American canner that has both. But much easier to use as I adjust the stove so the weight simmers once or twice every minute and let it go for the recommended time. No more constantly adjusting the flame.


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## Operator6

Chiefster23 said:


> Just an FYI. I have worked with pressure gauges all my life. Unless specifically calibrated, most are very inaccurate. Especially the cheap gauges like those on pressure cookers. I will take the simmering weight method of measuring pressure in a pot over a cheap gauge any day.


Exactly, I agree. The gauges they're using are crap.

I understand the idea though of having a dual set up. Have a gauge and have the weight and between the two checks you'll be safe but with the crap gauges........you know they're not consistsnt for long if at all.

I'd go with the weight pressure relief any day and I would install my own gauge if I wanted one.


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## SOCOM42

I have an All American 21.5 qt. canner, has both gages.
I follow the specs by the maker for pressure canning.
I use this one for canning only.
I do not do any hot water bath type canning.
I prefer to monitor both gages using the dial gage to control the burner setting.
With the gage you can make sure that the pressure does not drop below the safe ranges.
When the weight vents you can look at the dial and verify its accuracy.
Further, they compliment each other for safety.
This process is too dangerous to screw around, bacteria wise.
As you all know, pressure cooking and eating the product quickly is quite different than long term storage of same, no margin for error there.
I would use the non gaged unit for cooking only, and I have two just for that purpose.


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## Auntie

I would like to interject into this conversation that it is important to look at your location and know how far above sea level you are. I know that where I live I have to increase the pressure. If a recipe calls for 10 I have to use 14.


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## Operator6

Auntie said:


> I would like to interject into this conversation that it is important to look at your location and know how far above sea level you are. I know that where I live I have to increase the pressure. If a recipe calls for 10 I have to use 14.


Very good point @Auntie

I'm about 15' above sea level right now and if I walk 100 yards south I'd be about knee deep.......


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## Operator6

If a pressure cooker is used at a higher altitude the PSI drops and the cooking time has to be extended. 

This would also hold true for canning at altitude. Longer cook times. 

Ideally I would want to be able to adjust the pressure relief rather than extend time IMO. 

Standard pressure on the USA models are 15psi at sea level.

So once you hit 15psi I believe that's the heaviest weight that they come with. If you could cook at 20-25 psi you could reduce the cook time.


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## Auntie

We are at 5K. Everything is different here, recipes, canning, gardening :vs_sun:, yogurts explode when you open them if you are not careful.


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## rice paddy daddy

The topo map shows Answered Prayers Farm to be 39 meters above sea level.
Canning is the wife's job, I know absolutely nothing about how to do it.
I DO know she has a pressure cooker, and a pressure canner, but I do not know the difference.


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## Operator6

rice paddy daddy said:


> The topo map shows Answered Prayers Farm to be 39 meters above sea level.
> Canning is the wife's job, I know absolutely nothing about how to do it.
> I DO know she has a pressure cooker, and a pressure canner, but I do not know the difference.


There really is no difference between a cooker and a canner, at least in how they function.

They both are pressure vessels and the standard in the USA is 15 psi at sea level.

Some canners have gauges and weighted reliefs and some canners have both weighted reliefs and a gauge.

I've never seen a cooker with a gauge..... Usually if it has a gauge it's a canner.

Not sure how digital canners control its variables.....I'm sure it has some sort of mechanical relief.

From what I've read, all canners can be cookers but not all cookers should be used as a canner. Some believe a gauge is necessary to insure your cooking at the proper pressure for the lenght of time for your application.


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## Operator6

Most electric pressure cookers while heating up reach 15 psi but cook at around 11.6 psi.


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## rice paddy daddy

These are not electric - but stove top type.
Heck, I've never even heard of an electric pressure cooker.


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## Operator6

For every 1,000 ft above 2,000ft of elevation,increase your cooking time by 5% rounding up the the nearest minute.

Average atmospheric pressure averages 14.7 at sea level. 

A standard USA pressure cooker reaches 15 psi + atmospheric pressure of your location. 

The higher the pressure the higher temps can be reached before boiling.

So at altitude your cooking/canning at a lower temp than the same set up at sea level.


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## hawgrider

rice paddy daddy said:


> These are not electric - but stove top type.
> Heck, I've never even heard of an electric pressure cooker.


A quick search will reveal there are electric pressure cookers. These are the ones that should not be used for canning.

Analog gages suck and must be tested every year to ensure they are accurate. The county extension service is one place to get your gages tested.

A weighted gage pressure canner is the only way to go for consistent results as far as accuracy. Sometimes these weighted gages are called jigglers.

There is so much bullshit and fail in this thread its making my head spin. More than half those that piped up in this thread are full of crap. Wow people how do you find your way to work in the morning and successfully wipe your own ass?

Have a nice evening. Good luck finding your way to work in the morning. Remember wash your hands after you wipe your butt.


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## Operator6

At sea level both the gauge type and the weights work great. 

At altitudes above 1,000 feet the weights are not as accurate as the gauge assuming it's calibrated. 

You can over process more easily at altitude by just using the weights.

Pressure canning you adjust your pressure according to your altitude.

For hot water canning you adjust the cook time. 

That's what some folks say.......


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## hawgrider

Operator6 said:


> At sea level both the gauge type and the weights work great.
> 
> At altitudes above 1,000 feet the weights are not as accurate as the gauge assuming it's calibrated.
> 
> You can over process more easily at altitude by just using the weights.
> 
> Pressure canning you adjust your pressure according to your altitude.
> 
> For hot water canning you adjust the cook time.
> 
> That's what some folks say.......


Low acid meats and veggies are canned at 10 psi at or below sea level. Everything above 1000 ft sea level to 10,000 feet is canned at 15 psi with a weighted gage jiggler. From the Ball blue book.


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## Operator6

hawgrider said:


> Low acid meats and veggies are canned at 10 psi at or below sea level. Everything above 1000 ft sea level to 10,000 feet is canned at 15 psi with a weighted gage jiggler. From the Ball blue book.


Right that's all you can do when you don't have a gauge. If you had a gauge you could process at a lower pressure.

I understand it might not matter to you but it does to some.

Here is what the educated folks at Oregon University has to say....

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/fc...documents/sp_50_649_pressurecannerusecare.pdf


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## Operator6

The article also says that saucepans are no longer recommended for canning and that a canner must hold at least 4 quart jars to be large enough to safely can low acid foods.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/fc...documents/sp_50_649_pressurecannerusecare.pdf


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## hawgrider

Operator6 said:


> Right that's all you can do when you don't have a gauge. If you had a gauge you could process at a lower pressure.
> 
> I understand it might not matter to you but it does to some.
> 
> Here is what the educated folks at Oregon University has to say....
> 
> http://extension.oregonstate.edu/fc...documents/sp_50_649_pressurecannerusecare.pdf


When is the last time you had your analog gage tested? 
How many here have ever had their gage tested? 
Most people will not test their gage or dont know that they should.
So most people are at risk for using a untested gage vs people who use a weighted gage (jiggler)
I know what my choice for safety is! 
Botulism kills.


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## Operator6

hawgrider said:


> When is the last time you had your analog gage tested?
> How many here have ever had their gage tested?
> Most people will not test their gage or dont know that they should.
> So most people are at risk for using a untested gage vs people who use a weighted gage (jiggler)
> I know what my choice for safety is!
> Botulism kills.


I'm at sea level so if my gauge matches my relief weight at 10psi and at 15 I know my gauge is accurate.

Then if I want to process at different pressures I can do so.

It's all in what you'd like to do. The information is available for anyway you'd like to roll.


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## Operator6

Here s a great link that answers most of the why and how.

It explains why small pressure cookers shouldn't be used for pressure canning.

It seems researchers got inconsistent results while using pressure cookers that will not hold at least 4- one quart jars.

Pressure Canning Guide & FAQ: put 'em up! ? hip pressure cooking


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## Annie

For meats, I use the presto 23 quart. If you're not sure how many pounds of pressure you need, call your country cooperative extension office and they'll have all that for you. They'll also test your gauge.









I won't do water bath unless I have to because the power goes out. We have this.


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## OSOKILL

rice paddy daddy said:


> These are not electric - but stove top type.
> Heck, I've never even heard of an electric pressure cooker.


I really like my electric pressure cooker its the best way to boil eggs that I have found.... 
put something in the bottom to keep the eggs off the bottom of the pan 
add as many eggs as you wish
a cup of water 
6-7 min on low pressure
manually release the pressure when its done
put eggs directly into an ice bath
tada easy to peel perfect boiled eggs lol


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