# This is what you get when folks take the law into their own hands



## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

News from The Associated Press


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Not sure what this has to do with folks taking the law into their own hands.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> Not sure what this has to do with folks taking the law into their own hands.


Right - two gangs fighting has Nothing to do with the Thread title


----------



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I want to know the gangs involved. It doesn't elaborate. Texas has quite a few that fester there including Outlaws, Banditos and Hell's Angels.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

In all due respect. What do you get when you wait for police when your life/property is in danger? They have no duty to protect you, SCOTUS has affirmed that. 

Might as well have some Eunuch show up for help. 

But if some of LE smell blood and they can do the Nazi dance, they are wolves and predators. Yes , been there done that.

Sorry to good LE, but that's a fact Jack


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Hmmm. I wonder if the bikers passed a back ground check to buy their guns, and had the necessary permits/licenses to carry them.
Because, after all, gun control laws work.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Wait, there were "at least" 12 cops on the scene and that's citizens taking the law into their own hands?

Sorry, man, that's crazy talk. IF you have a diner full of cops and a gun battle breaks out between outlaws, and the cops join in, what on earth does this have to do with the citizens?


----------



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Mad Trapper said:


> In all due respect. What do you get when you wait for police when your life/property is in danger? They have no duty to protect you, SCOTUS has affirmed that.
> 
> Might as well have some Eunuch show up for help.
> 
> ...


A fact in your experience perhaps. I have shown up on calls and drawn the fire from scumbags who would otherwise have been shooting at the innocent or in some cases other scumbags.


----------



## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

If my sole experiences with police officers were in New York and New Jersey, I am sure I would have a bad opinion about cops, too.

New York and New Jersey are two of the biggest armpits in the United States (I'm being kind, so I don't get banned again).

What about the HEARTLAND of this country? What about the south? What about the plains states? 

How can you possibly have an educated opinion about ANYTHING, based solely on what happens in TWO Godforesaken liberal hellhole states?

Diver, you need to get out more. Maybe rent a motorhome and take a long trip.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> If my sole experiences with police officers were in New York and New Jersey, I am sure I would have a bad opinion about cops, too.
> 
> New York and New Jersey are two of the biggest armpits in the United States (I'm being kind, so I don't get banned again).
> 
> ...


Other than the fact I haven't yet posted anything in this thread so I have no idea why this is here, I completely agree.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

If the cops were already there and waiting for something to happen and it does and there are only 9 dead then the cops did a very poor job of defending those not involved and themselves. Sounds like they need to go back to the gun range and practice some more. Or to look at it from another point of view, yea, I'll call the cops, they were already there and still nine are dead, so much for preventing crime when your already there, much less if you have to call and wait for them to show up. I guess most didn't try to run away so the cops couldn't shoot at them and they didn't resist so none got choked to death or suffered deadly spinal injuries, just sayin..... I guess they didn't have probable cause so they could check to see who was carrying and who was legal to do so. Got to protect the gang members rights but not the law abiding citizen on the street!


----------



## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm all for the dregs of humanity offing each other. Unfortunately innocents get caught in the middle a lot of times.


----------



## jeff70 (Jan 29, 2014)

You guys crack me up, The story just comes out, not many details released yet, and Already the Police are at fault.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

jeff70 said:


> You guys crack me up, The story just comes out, not many details released yet, and Already the Police are at fault.


If your referring to my post, then no, I didn't say they were at fault, they just did a piss poor job for being there before hand knowing / expecting trouble and then letting it get out of control by what actually happened. If it had been a legal citizen walking down the street swat would have had the citizen arrested and booked before anything could even be said / argued! But known rival biker gangs meeting, no problem.


----------



## jeff70 (Jan 29, 2014)

I Actually agree with you ekim, I wasn't referring to any single post I just find it funny that alot of people here automatically blame the cops without any details on what happened,


----------



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I'm sorry, but I'm going with the first response.
this has nothing to do with citizens taking the law into their own hands.
this has to do with a turf war, which isn't "law" it's biker law. If citizens had taken the law into their own hands, they (the everyday average Joe's at the restaurant) would have banded together and forced the bikers to leave. THAT would be taking the law into your own hands. Performing a citizen's arrest is taking the law into your own hands. And each of these examples is legal. There is nothing whatsoever with taking the law into your own hands.

Now going for revenge when someone shot your dog/mom/brother etc, that's NOT taking the law into your own hands, it's acting outside the law being a vigilante. 
Having a massive biker brawl/shootout isn't inside the law to begin with, and therefore cannot be considered taking the law into one's own hands.


----------



## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Meanwhile, another TX cop at a cartoon contest did a damn fine job of crime prevention as I recall!


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

They should take them out of town allow them to fight all they want. Go back any still standing get shot or goes to jail


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Hemi45 said:


> Meanwhile, another TX cop at a cartoon contest did a damn fine job of crime prevention as I recall!


I agree. However, I wonder how many people were carrying at that event. It strikes me as a place one should carry.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> They should take them out of town allow them to fight all they want.


Exactly. I don't care if these guys want to fight and shoot it out or whatever, just do it out of town where innocent folks don't get hurt.


----------



## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

When I referee a game, I can't stop players from committing fouls, even if I know they're going to. Therefore, if a bunch of people show up intending to have a shootout, there's probably little the cops can do to stop it from occurring -- little that would be legal, and I'd prefer they stuck to 'legal' even in such circumstances as these. So I for one am not going to get on the cops' cases for not stopping it. So long as the cops didn't shoot any innocents (and I saw no hint that they did that), I'll save all my blame for the guys who showed up wanting to kill each other.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

ekim said:


> If the cops were already there and waiting for something to happen and it does and there are only 9 dead then the cops did a very poor job of defending those not involved and themselves. Sounds like they need to go back to the gun range and practice some more.


Are you perhaps forgetting one of the four cardinal rules of gun safety?
Make sure of your target AND EVERYTHING BEHIND IT.
This was a populated area, a public area. Civilians could have been all around. I can't say for sure, but the "after" pictures I saw on the NBC local affiliate in Waco showed a lot of people standing around.
This was not a biker bar in the middle of nowhere.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

*ng the street*



csi-tech said:


> A fact in your experience perhaps. I have shown up on calls and drawn the fire from scumbags who would otherwise have been shooting at the innocent or in some cases other scumbags.


Sorry Sir, if you happen to be one of the good LEO.

If my life or property depends on it, 911 is an afterthought. Hell, I saw an officer take 9 rounds to put down a road almost killed deer. I could have brained with a stick.

And in my experience there are too many bad apples patrolling the streets who watch police dramas. Yes I have been helped by the good, and there are many. But I have seen what the rotten do and it is sickening. I won't go into details.......


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I don't understand why the law is mad at the twin peaks management. If I owned a business I wouldn't want anyone telling me to turn away customers for any reason. I'll make that decision on my own. 

For those that don't know, that place is just a better version of hooters. Think about the name... 

Hope no innocents were hurt or killed.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> A fact in your experience perhaps. I have shown up on calls and drawn the fire from scumbags who would otherwise have been shooting at the innocent or in some cases other scumbags.


The perfect scenario would be for you to show up, I offer you a cup of coffee to enjoy while you do the paperwork, and we talk about what an awesome shot I am.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I want to know the gangs involved. It doesn't elaborate. Texas has quite a few that fester there including Outlaws, Banditos and Hell's Angels.


_Multiple police sources told the Waco Tribune it was a fight between the Cossacks and the Bandidos. Based on their leathers, it appears the Scimitars, Los Pirados, the Veterans, and the Leathernecks were also involved._

At least nine dead after huge gun battle between rival biker gangs at Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas | Daily Mail Online


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Are you perhaps forgetting one of the four cardinal rules of gun safety?
> Make sure of your target AND EVERYTHING BEHIND IT.
> This was a populated area, a public area. Civilians could have been all around. I can't say for sure, but the "after" pictures I saw on the NBC local affiliate in Waco showed a lot of people standing around.
> This was not a biker bar in the middle of nowhere.


Yes you are right this was in Texas, it's NYC were they shoot by standers.


----------



## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

jeff70 said:


> I Actually agree with you ekim, I wasn't referring to any single post I just find it funny that alot of people here automatically blame the cops without any details on what happened,


But I do blame the cops, they knew it was going to be bad, that's why they were there to begin with and just watched it go down. I'm sure 1 or 2 of the gang members probably had an arrest record and they could have searched for weapons and drugs like they do if your a white citizen minding your own business or doing something legal like walking down the street in Ohio, OCing with your wife and child. No I'm not against all cops but they sure don't get a pat on the back for this farce in Waco.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Denton said:


> _Multiple police sources told the Waco Tribune it was a fight between the Cossacks and the Bandidos. Based on their leathers, it appears the Scimitars, Los Pirados, the Veterans, and the Leathernecks were also involved._
> 
> At least nine dead after huge gun battle between rival biker gangs at Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas | Daily Mail Online


Yes. It was a negotiation set up to resolve a long standing feud between the Bandidos and the Cossacks. ( 2 of the worst ) Supposedly the other gangs were there to mediate the issue. That many bad people in one place will not end in a group hug.


----------



## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

It seems that biker gangs lack disipline and basic tactis, and most of all, the ability to think about the consequense of thier actions. Starting impuslive/unplanned/unneccary firefights when cops are around will only inflickt losses on all sides. even if you "win " the fight, well, you lose crew to jails. So incredible amaturish.


----------



## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Arklatex said:


> I don't understand why the law is mad at the twin peaks management. If I owned a business I wouldn't want anyone telling me to turn away customers for any reason. I'll make that decision on my own.
> 
> For those that don't know, that place is just a better version of hooters. Think about the name...
> 
> Hope no innocents were hurt or killed.


from what I've read the "restaurant" has had continual problems .... at this incident the restaurant management refused entrance to coppers to watch over the biker conference .... all the cops were out in the parking lot when the fight started in the bathroom ....

what a strange azz place for a place like that .... even stranger place for the bikers to meet ....


----------



## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> It seems that biker gangs lack disipline and basic tactis, and most of all, the ability to think about the consequense of thier actions. Starting impuslive/unplanned/unneccary firefights when cops are around will only inflickt losses on all sides. even if you "win " the fight, well, you lose crew to jails. So incredible amaturish.


you kidding? .... the skinhead biker gangs in Europe fling hand grenades at each other


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> I don't understand why the law is mad at the twin peaks management. If I owned a business I wouldn't want anyone telling me to turn away customers for any reason. I'll make that decision on my own.
> 
> For those that don't know, that place is just a better version of hooters. Think about the name...
> 
> Hope no innocents were hurt or killed.


Well, in that case I would have been safe.
I do not patronize establishments like that.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I've heard the news announcers say things like "the shootout between rival gangs sent family's fleeing from the restaurant..."

WHAT? If I'm at the Twin Peaks with my wife and young children after church and 5 or 6 rival biker gangs come in to negotiate drug territories and former fueds, I'm ordering another round of shots for the family, pinching the waitress on the behind and settling in to watch?

UPDATE: Fox News just reported that the Police in Waco,TX have announced that they have learned that the biker gangs have put out "hits" on the Waco police department. Should get interesting.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I've heard the news announcers say things like "the shootout between rival gangs sent family's fleeing from the restaurant..."
> 
> WHAT? If I'm at the Twin Peaks with my wife and young children after church and 5 or 6 rival biker gangs come in to negotiate drug territories and former fueds, I'm ordering another round of shots for the family, pinching the waitress on the behind and settling in to watch?
> 
> UPDATE: Fox News just reported that the Police in Waco,TX have announced that they have learned that the biker gangs have put out "hits" on the Waco police department. Should get interesting.


I think we are about to see a hard-core military style reaction to that threat...

(Placing tin hat firmly on noggin) NO, WAIT, I HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS JADE HELM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I think we are about to see a hard-core military style reaction to that threat...
> 
> (Placing tin hat firmly on noggin) NO, WAIT, I HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS JADE HELM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You may be right my good friend Salty...But...I really can't be bothered with this nonsense, I'm taking the kids to the Kitty Kat Tat Club for pre-happy hour to meet up with my bandido buds.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Slippy said:


> You may be right my good friend Salty...But...I really can't be bothered with this nonsense, I'm taking the kids to the Kitty Kat Tat Club for pre-happy hour to meet up with my bandido buds.


You mean the one right outside of where they are setting up the FEMA concentration camp? I'll see you there, perhaps after we get done with our drinking we can beat up a few of those blue-helmeted UN guys...


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

3-5 different biker gangs showed up at one establishment.
The owner knew they were coming, and WANTED them there.
Law enforcement knew they were coming and advised the owner on the issue.
The owner ignored advice.
Law enforcement was on scene, expecting an altercation.
A verbal argument evolved into a fist fight which escalated to melee weapons being produced and culminated in a gun fight.
Officers were fired upon and returned fire.
9 scumbags dead, no officers or civilians injured.
170 additional scumbags arrested.
Sounds like a good day to me.

OP has not returned to defend his claim.
Hit the 'Submit' button a hair too quickly there, did we Sarge?


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

OK so which biker gang won?


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

James m said:


> OK so which biker gang won?


Hell's Angels.

They weren't there.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Today's update on this story:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...shootout-retired-det-busted-article-1.2228941


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

1 of 170 there is probably 1 of every profession.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

James m said:


> 1 of 170 there is probably 1 of every profession.


He's probably one of the good ones.


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I heard he shot the 9 other bikers....


----------



## Quietsurvivalist (Apr 26, 2015)

Stupid people

doing Stupid things

in Stupid places

And why is this a discussion?


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Quietsurvivalist said:


> Stupid people
> 
> doing Stupid things
> 
> ...


We have a lot of cops on the forum and they enjoy this stuff.


----------



## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> We have a lot of cops on the forum and they enjoy this stuff.


Does this qualify as a statement coming from an inciter?


----------



## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> We have a lot of cops on the forum and they enjoy this stuff.


By the way, how are the cops in this forum? Since you said there are a lot in this forum, which ones are bad so I know to avoid them....


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

6811 said:


> Does this qualify as a statement coming from an inciter?


That's not quite how the term is being used here. Inciters are actions, not people. Inciters are used by people, particularly cops.

Inciters are used by cops to stimulate arrests. The tactic is to scream, insult, invade the personal space, etc. of some random individual, e.g. someone stopped at a traffic stop. Some cops will go so far as to push or spit on their victim. If this triggers the fight or flee response, the cop then gets to take what might have been a simple traffic stop and escalate it into assault on an officer, resisting arrest, and whatever else he can figure out for charges. He also can have some fun beating up the poor sucker who falls for this tactic.

The use of inciters by cops is highly unethical but extremely common. It works best and is therefore used the most on young men, especially blacks, but can be used on anyone. You may have experienced it yourself and not known what was going on.

If you observe the behavior of several of our cop forum members what you will see is their method of dealing with someone who disagrees, is essentially inciters. Insults, etc. are the norm. You can find a bunch of examples by searching on the term "inciter". The expected response is the person will leave, start swearing, or blow themselves up in some similar fashion. Since we don't really have moderators, there is no check on this tactic. The cops are free to insult anyone and everyone, just like they do in day to day real life.


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Oink oink.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> That's not quite how the term is being used here. Inciters are actions, not people. Inciters are used by people, particularly cops.
> 
> Inciters are used by cops to stimulate arrests. The tactic is to scream, insult, invade the personal space, etc. of some random individual, e.g. someone stopped at a traffic stop. Some cops will go so far as to push or spit on their victim. If this triggers the fight or flee response, the cop then gets to take what might have been a simple traffic stop and escalate it into assault on an officer, resisting arrest, and whatever else he can figure out for charges. He also can have some fun beating up the poor sucker who falls for this tactic.
> 
> ...


Sounds like drivel from someone who lost their cool and assaulted a police officer?


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

James m said:


> Oink oink.


It looks like you understand completely.


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Diver said:


> It looks like you understand completely.


I'm always here to start trouble one way or another. It keeps me busy. Police actually have a hard job. I just wish they wouldn't get 6 months paid time off after they kill somebody. Its not fiscally responsible.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Sounds like drivel from someone who lost their cool and assaulted a police officer?


Nope, my method in real life is to listen to the cretin make a fool of himself. It is great entertainment when you understand the game. 

Of course the umpteenth time this occurs you begin to realize that there are a lot of cops who are too incompetent to make real arrests, so they run around doing this stuff.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

James m said:


> I'm always here to start trouble one way or another. It keeps me busy. Police actually have a hard job. I just wish they wouldn't get 6 months paid time off after they kill somebody. Its not fiscally responsible.


It is a hard job, especially when you are expected to bring in a quota of arrests, aren't particularly talented, and there aren't enough real criminals. That creates a lot of pressure.


----------

