# Our off-grid system & life



## MountainGirl

Hi, this first post will be a pretty much non-technical brief summary about why we did what we did. 

When I met my husband (2015) he'd already had and lived on the 8 acres for about 6 years, built a small one-room cabin by hand out of scrap lumber, donated windows, etc. He hauled water from a lake nearby, filled drinking water jugs at friends, and for power - propane stove for cooking, woodstove for heat, a little windmill up on the high spot that had recently seized up (high windstorm), an old generator to charge up 2 car batteries, and a 1000w inverter to run a couple lights and a TV for a few hours a day. We lived like that for a year; loved it.

Our second year, we decided to make this place our permanent home...and to 'improve' it to make life a little easier so we could stay here when we got really old & feeble, lol, in our 60's now. Briefly considered having power run in - but it would have been over $35K for this far out, so nope. Mostly though, just wanted to stay 'un-hooked', so stand alone system was the choice.

First was to have the well drilled - so we'd know depth & therefore pump requirements... and what kind of power was needed to run it. Ended up at 200'. Too many options/choices...and my knowledge was general rather than deep enough to make a good selection - so I called in a pro to help design based on our needs. Over the summer of 2016, we built an addition on to the cabin and incorporated a 'power room' in that, for the battery bank (16 Rolls 6v, 428AMH, configured for 24V) and all the component parts. Also built a treated 4x4 framework for the 9-panel array (crystalline, 235w each), which is 100' up above the cabin. 

Though comfortable doing all the house wiring, etc, we decided to have this system installed by a pro. We did all the build & trenching; he did the hookup. Also having him come up once a year to give everything a good check-over; we maintain the 2 ton (lol) worth of batteries, checking every 6wks for h2o levels, topping them off, and if they need to be equalized we do that then. Been over a year now, so far all good.

It was likely an over-build. I dont care, even though the pro said we could get by with a smaller system. The main thing was and is - sufficient watts coming down the hill to keep an oversized battery bank charged (it only dropped once below 90% after a week-long rain last summer, so we fired up the gen to top them up) to meet our needs. 

Our needs? 220v Water pump. Efficient (480kw/yr) GE fridge/freezer <-and that can be shut off, if needed.
Our extras? Lights, TV, Washer(110), fans
Our biggest surprise? There was so much power coming down in the full sun over this last summer that we were able to use a stand up window vented air conditioner - for the few days it got over 90 up here - and the batteries didn't drop off 100% while using it. 

I'll post some pics later, and happy to answer any questions. I think I still have the spec sheet somewhere on everything in the system, and can post more particulars if anybody wants. 

And since you're probably curious as hell - the 'parts' ran just over $12K and the 'labor' was $4K. The labor included not only the install - but the design, ordering, receiving, hauling everything way up here, and working with us to do it spread out over several months...as we got the needed infrastructures built. 

All comments welcome.


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## MountainGirl

Not sure how many pics I can put in one post - but here are 5.
1. Hubby building the array structure.
2. Finished structure. Had to offset the third one, ran out of flat. lolol
3. Panels installed, not yet wired. By this time, power room was ready to go, still needed to trench for wires. 
4. Batteries in place, waiting for hook up; components ready to install.
5. Pro hooking up system.


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## rstanek

I think I can honestly say you and your husband may be the envy of many here, how fortunate for you to be able to set yourself up as said, I for one are looking forward to learning about your gardening and food preservation methods,I assume you heat and cook with wood and propane backup or how are you setup? Feel free to share , there is also much to learn from many here.....


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## Chiefster23

Love your post. I explained my solar set-up a while back but it is nothing like yours. Please keep your posts coming. Also, what kind and size generator do you have? Gas or diesel?


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## MountainGirl

rstanek said:


> I think I can honestly say you and your husband may be the envy of many here, how fortunate for you to be able to set yourself up as said, I for one are looking forward to learning about your gardening and food preservation methods,I assume you heat and cook with wood and propane backup or how are you setup? Feel free to share , there is also much to learn from many here.....


Hi rstanek.

I sure hope there'd be no envy, but IF there was it should only be of our lack of fear to try and live the way we want to live. It would be so much safer and easier, and definitely smarter, to live in town... especially at our age. We might die up here, who knows. And, it's a LOT of hard work. But the good parts are sooooo good, especially the peacefulness of it all. Living remotely is not for everyone though - especially with young families and work obligations or those who are very society-inclined. Everything up here was bought with our savings; by having no debts (paid off through hard work) we can do this on very small soc sec income. And, if SHTF/WROL hits and/or soc sec stops?...we'll get by fine, until we don't, and then whatever comes will be okay. 

I have TONS to learn about doing this, especially food preservation/storage/gardening. Right now we're buying ahead from the stores - with little place to keep things...so one of the projects for next summer is to configure a 'root-cellar' of sorts. Most of the 'looks like dirt' spots have solid granite about a foot down...so will need to get creative! Especially with any fencing, without post holes, lol

We heat with wood; cook & hot water with propane. Two 100lb propane tanks, hooked up separately to its use. The kitchen one lasts 6 months, the water one 2 months. We haul them down for re-fill when going for supplies & always have a 3rd one here, full. When/if propane is no longer available, it all switches back to wood only.

Thanks for your reply - and all ideas/suggestions are very much appreciated. We're always learning as we go and we don't even know yet what we don't know!


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## Prepared One

I live in Houston, among the crazy people. You live in the mountains, away from the crazy people, but I am not envious, not me, because I......oh screw it. I am enviouse as hell.............:vs_mad:


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## Coastie dad

Oh, I may be a little green....we can't live too secluded due to wife's health and a growing multitude of grandkids, but good for y'all. Seriously. To be able to do this, you should be very proud of yourselves.:vs_clap:


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## 1skrewsloose

You should write a book, being off-grid and making a go of it. Its damn hard work, everything is manual, labor intensive. Not sure at my age if I could do the same, good to see that peoples dreams can still be had.


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## MountainGirl

Chiefster23 said:


> Love your post. I explained my solar set-up a while back but it is nothing like yours. Please keep your posts coming. Also, what kind and size generator do you have? Gas or diesel?


Hi Chiefster, we picked up a Honda EU7000is. One great feature is the 'eco' setting that lets it idle slow and when there's a demand surge it kicks up the rpm.









That 2016 pic shows it in its temp location...with a power cord plugged into the 240 side, to run the well-pump. It was so nice to have water up here, even before plumbing was in. And power for the tools to finish the addition build, without having to keep the old gen running, lol, which is now in storage as a backup. It's gas. Decided that way as everything else here is gas: chainsaws, splitter, etc.

Where can I find your solar set-up thread? I love reading how others are doing it. Thanks!


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## rstanek

MountainGirl said:


> Hi rstanek.
> 
> I sure hope there'd be no envy, but IF there was it should only be of our lack of fear to try and live the way we want to live. It would be so much safer and easier, and definitely smarter, to live in town... especially at our age. We might die up here, who knows. And, it's a LOT of hard work. But the good parts are sooooo good, especially the peacefulness of it all. Living remotely is not for everyone though - especially with young families and work obligations or those who are very society-inclined. Everything up here was bought with our savings; by having no debts (paid off through hard work) we can do this on very small soc sec income. And, if SHTF/WROL hits and/or soc sec stops?...we'll get by fine, until we don't, and then whatever comes will be okay.
> 
> I have TONS to learn about doing this, especially food preservation/storage/gardening. Right now we're buying ahead from the stores - with little place to keep things...so one of the projects for next summer is to configure a 'root-cellar' of sorts. Most of the 'looks like dirt' spots have solid granite about a foot down...so will need to get creative! Especially with any fencing, without post holes, lol
> 
> We heat with wood; cook & hot water with propane. Two 100lb propane tanks, hooked up separately to its use. The kitchen one lasts 6 months, the water one 2 months. We haul them down for re-fill when going for supplies & always have a 3rd one here, full. When/if propane is no longer available, it all switches back to wood only.
> 
> Thanks for your reply - and all ideas/suggestions are very much appreciated. We're always learning as we go and we don't even know yet what we don't know!


I realize envy is a sin if taken to an extreme , a little bit can be productive in motivating one to better themselves....


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## Chiefster23

Mountaingirl. Click on my my nickname “chiefster23” and view my previous posts. Back in March 2017, the thread is titled ‘my solar project’ 
I also have a Honda genny but it’s only a 2000watt. I also bought an army surplus 3kw diesel genny that I can run on my furnace fuel oil. I would love to have a remote location and a setup like yours, but I am too old to go back into debt and start a project like yours. Keep us posted.


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## MountainGirl

Chiefster23 said:


> Mountaingirl. Click on my my nickname "chiefster23" and view my previous posts. Back in March 2017, the thread is titled 'my solar project'
> I also have a Honda genny but it's only a 2000watt. I also bought an army surplus 3kw diesel genny that I can run on my furnace fuel oil. I would love to have a remote location and a setup like yours, but I am too old to go back into debt and start a project like yours. Keep us posted.


Found it, thanks, really nice set up! Is it doing everything you want pretty much?


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## Smitty901

One down side to some areas deep water. My second sons well is 400 feet. On this place it can be 10 two 90 depending where you want one and a sand point will work in some parts of the land. I could not ever see us living in town. I remind myself that family settled this area and for a generation had no electric, another generation had darn little. They did well. Just a different life than what most live today.


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## Chiefster23

Yes, it does pretty well. Actually, I think I could power up more if I had a bigger battery bank. Maybe that will be a future project.


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## Slippy

@MountainGirl

Great job! Y'all got it going on up in the mountains!

Most certainly, SLIPPY APPROVED!:vs_closedeyes:


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## 8301

MountainGirl, If I may make a suggestion about "balancing" your system...

It's great that you rarely go below 90% SOC to maximize battery life. I'm assuming that you're using a hydrometer occasionally to verify the SOC meter. We tend to drop to about 80 - 84% SOC most evenings (more electronics including a teenager and a mini-split) but we have more panels so it works.

The thing is while it's best to not cycle the batteries too deeply often it's better if they drop down to about 80% occasionally to give the electrolyte a good stir with a hard charge. But from what I've read in your OP considering the 77% panel/controller efficiency factor most solar professionals assume when designing a system you can only recharge those batteries at about a C/25 rate which is way to gentle (slow) to maintain battery health. A general rule of thumb is for a weekend cabin a C/20 charge rate is considered the bare minimum(C/13 is much better) for healthy batteries and a C/10 rate is better for a system that is cycled daily. With those Rolls you can safely charge them at up to a C/8 rate.

This means that you may want to conceder either doubling your panels or pulling one string out of that battery bank. (I understand that pulling a string of batteries at this point is not a realistic option.) In an effort to help make your batteries cycle a bit more you may want to at least double your panels and maybe once a week turn the panels off for a day so the batteries cycle a little deeper, but you still need more panels. In your case you are way over on the batteries.

Go to this site and you will learn a lot. Recent Discussions ? northernarizona-windandsun 
It would be a shame to lose that $7500 battery bank in only 6 years.

I've been running some solar for about 8 years and designed and installed the system my home runs on as I type tonight over 2 years ago.

18 (and adding more) SW285 panels
Conext 80-600 controller (working on adding Conext 60-150)
Schneider 6848 XW+ inverter (more inverter than needed but I've seen it peak at over 9200 watts, well, microwave, clothes washer, ect all kicked in at once while the mini-split was heating).
16 Crown 395 amp/hr 6v batteries
Conext battery monitor @MountainGirl


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## Chipper

I do like the setup but only 8 acres, seriously?? Must have a lot of neighbors/friends close by. Are they on the same page or a liability?? Envy not hardly, you'll burn up those few pine trees the first hard winter. Hows the garden going??


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## MountainGirl

John Galt said:


> MountainGirl, If I may make a suggestion about "balancing" your system...
> 
> It's great that you rarely go below 90% SOC to maximize battery life. I'm assuming that you're using a hydrometer occasionally to verify the SOC meter. *Yes, and we go more by the voltage on the Trimetric, using the ranges from Rolls* We tend to drop to about 80 - 84% SOC most evenings (more electronics including a teenager and a mini-split) but we have more panels so it works.
> 
> The thing is while it's best to not cycle the batteries too deeply often it's better if they drop down to about 80% occasionally to give the electrolyte a good stir with a hard charge. But from what I've read in your OP considering the 77% panel/controller efficiency factor most solar professionals assume when designing a system you can only recharge those batteries at about a C/25 rate which is way to gentle (slow) to maintain battery health. A general rule of thumb is for a weekend cabin a C/20 charge rate is considered the bare minimum(C/13 is much better) for healthy batteries and a C/10 rate is better for a system that is cycled daily. With those Rolls you can safely charge them at up to a C/8 rate. *I don't know what "C/25" means, sorry, can you advise what it refers to? *
> 
> This means that you may want to conceder either doubling your panels or pulling one string out of that battery bank. (I understand that pulling a string of batteries at this point is not a realistic option.) In an effort to help make your batteries cycle a bit more you may want to at least double your panels and maybe once a week turn the panels off for a day so the batteries cycle a little deeper, but you still need more panels. In your case you are way over on the batteries.
> 
> Go to this site and you will learn a lot. Recent Discussions ? northernarizona-windandsun
> It would be a shame to lose that $7500 battery bank in only 6 years.
> 
> I've been running some solar for about 8 years and designed and installed the system my home runs on as I type tonight over 2 years ago.
> 
> 18 (and adding more) SW285 panels
> Conext 80-600 controller (working on adding Conext 60-150)
> Schneider 6848 XW+ inverter (more inverter than needed but I've seen it peak at over 9200 watts, well, microwave, clothes washer, ect all kicked in at once while the mini-split was heating).
> 16 Crown 395 amp/hr 6v batteries
> Conext battery monitor @*MountainGirl*


John Galt, thanks so very much for your post and suggestions. I looked at the link and will be definitely spending time there; thank you. If you don't mind me asking, along with my question above, Until we get things figured out a little better - could we occasionally drain the batteries down to 80% (or whatever % you'd recommend) to give them a good stir, then run the gen to give them a hard charge back up? How often would you suggest?

I'm listing below some of the components we have (copied from a pdf I'd saved of the bid); and we live up here 24/7 - rather than it just being a week-end cabin.

Schneider Conext SW 4024 4000 watt Off-Grid Inverter/Charger 120/240VAC 
DC Disconnect 
SW System Control Panel 
Trimetric 2030-A Meter kit w/500amp shunt
FM-80 Charger Controller MPPT 
MNPV3 combiner box 
15 amp 150v dc Single Pole DIN
Delta LA602DC Lightning Arrester 
Delta LA302R AC Lightning Arrester 
80 amp 125VDC panel mount ¼ stud

You are right that re-configuring the battery bank is not really an option, and, sadly we cannot add more panels. There is no more room up there - and we had to soldier them in a row to keep the array height down (high winds).

Thanks again, your input is very much appreciated.


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## 8301

Smitty901 said:


> One down side to some areas deep water. My second sons well is 400 feet. On this place it can be 10 two 90 depending where you want one and a sand point will work in some parts of the land.


At my place we got into wet dirt at 45' and rock at 50",,, not so good for a year round well...... but deeper into that we hit about 2gpm at 95'. Finally at 390' we hit 100+ gpm. We hung the pump at 200' down because the water at 390' was so pressurized that it pushed back up to the 50' level. I wanted a well that would never go dry.

When drilling in SC we hit wet sand at about 55' and went down to 90' (hitting the bedrock) which gave us water year round,,, sand and seashell coming up all the way.


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## 8301

Lot to cover so I'm just going to hit the high points. 
Battery maintance is almost as much art as science, lots of opinions out there.

If you are running sixteen 6v batteries with a SW 4024 then you are running four strings of batteries. Almost impossible to keep four strings balanced. The fact that you haven't noticed this means you guys aren't using a SG (specific gravity) meter and instead are totally relying on your battery monitor. Battery monitors drift off within a few weeks of being reset and should only be used as a rough estimate. Get a SG meter and use it, many types out there but this is the one I use. https://www.solar-electric.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Hydrovolt Always rinse a SG meter out with water before storing to avoid buildup inside. A clamp meter that can read DC current will also help you see problems with uneven current flow in the battery cables.

After testing all cells (full charge should show a SG of about 1.277) look to see if there if the maximum variance between all cells is more than .020. If not then you don't need to EQ (equalize). EQing is hard on the cells, you're basically making them shed metal, so you only EQ when needed. Automatically EQing monthly with a well maintained battery bank usually isn't needed. Maybe every 3 months or whenever you see the cells too far out of balance (more than about .020). Unfortunaly with your running 4 strings of batteries (especially with such a soft absorb amperage) makes me suspect that you are going to find that the batteries are out of balance unless your frequent EQing has forced them back inline. But many EQing cycles are only one hour, sometimes you may need 3 or more hours to get things straight or reasonably close.

To properly EQ fully charge batteries using Absorb (SG around 1.277). If batteries are badly out of balance (some cells not getting above about 1.255 using absorb) EQ and check SGs every 30 minutes or hour. Continue EQing until the weaker cells stop rising. This may take several hours. If the batteries are older or have been damaged from chronic under charging don't wear out the stronger cells by EQing too often or long. Rolls batteries have a wonderful warranty but ONLY if you have documented their SG readings occasionally. Great warranty but hard to get a warrant claim approved. Be sure to review the Rolls charging suggestions.

By having a SG meter you can adjust your absorb time to assure fully charged batteries while minimizing battery heating.

part two is next post. @MountainGirl


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## Chiefster23

John. Please explain; what do you mean by a C/10 rate?


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## 8301

FLA (flooded lead acid) batteries, especially tall ones like yours, need to charge hard enough to stir the electrolyte occasionally. If not it stratifies making accurate SG readings impossible and reducing battery capacity. This means you need to have enough charging current to bubble the electrolyte well occasionally. With your limited number of panels charging your large battery bank you probably aren't capable of really bubbling those cells well. The 7000 watt generator can do it but from your posts I suspect you guys have only used the generator once or twice in the last year.

Simplifying this but.... as I said earlier throughout the day panels rarely put out full rated power. In addition the charge controller loses about 2% of the energy so when designing a system solar professionals assume that panels/controller will put out about 77% of the panels rated power into the batteries.
Your system 2115 watts in panels X 77% = about 1628 watts (*68 amps* at 24v) going into the batteries.

At 24v your battery bank capacity is *1712 amp/hrs*. 
1712 / 68 = 25.3 so your solar charging at a C/25 rate

If you had double the panels (136 amps at about 24v) it would look like this
1712 / 136 = 12.6 so you'd be charging at about a C/12 rate.
you can get the same effect by reducing the battery bank size.

*Most if not all reputable battery manufacturers have a minimum charge rate to maintain the warranty*, usually at least C/20 (Iron Edison minimum charge rate is C/10). This is because it you don't charge the batteries hard enough you can't properly stir the electrolyte (bubble the batteries) resulting in uneven battery charging and stratified electrolyte inside each cell.

A C/13 charging rate is generally the accepted rate for a full time system. Most FLA (flooded lead acid) batteries do not do well if charged at faster than a C/8 rate because it makes them heat up too much. Heat is a battery's enemy. Solar panels put out more power when it's colder outside. @Chiefster23 @MountainGirl


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## Redneck

John, you do a great job of making a complex process understandable. Thanks for taking the time to explain so well.


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## A Watchman

Slippy said:


> @MountainGirl
> 
> Great job! Y'all got it going on up in the mountains!
> 
> Most certainly, SLIPPY APPROVED!:vs_closedeyes:


Yea, she may just turn out to be the real deal ...... might have to let her into our good ole' boy club here, huh? (she could bring the bourbon)


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## Redneck

A Watchman said:


> Yea, she may just turn out to be the real deal ...... might have to let her into our good ole' boy club here, huh? (she could bring the bourbon)


Wonder if she realizes ole @Slippy doesn't approve of much. To get his seal of approval is something to be proud of.

Hey @MountainGirl, you drink bourbon?


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## Chiefster23

Thank you John. I use crown golf cart batteries. Just visited their site and yes, according to their guidelines I am not charging the batteries hard enough. They say 10 to 20% of total AH (20 hr rate). I have six 205 a-hr, six volt batteries connected in series/parallel to produce 615 amp-hr of 12 volt power. So I guess I should be charging at 60 amps or greater. My 600 watts of panels probably never do better than 40to 45 amps. Adding panels is not an option at this time. How about charging with a 55amp charger once a month? Still not ideal but maybe better than nothing?


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## MountainGirl

John Galt said:


> Lot to cover so I'm just going to hit the high points. ....


John Galt, first, thank you for taking the time to go into such detail. I wish my husband and I had your aptitude for this, we do not. What I can do, however, is print out your posts and run this by Randy (my solar pro) - for his input and suggestions. There were concerns, when choosing options for the system, that this type of monitoring and maintenance of lead acid batteries was above our skill-set; we did consider silicon-salt, but the cost was prohibitive. If, as things stand, we'll lose them way too soon, perhaps that would have been the better choice - but, that's water under the bridge. So... maybe what we'll do is have Randy come up to handle this aspect. We should have some nice venison steaks for trade. 

Thanks again for all your help!


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## Chiefster23

Mountaingirl. John hasn’t weighed in yet but might I make the following suggestion. It should be relatively easy to divide your battery bank into two separate banks with a few switches. Simply alternate, running one bank on even days and the other on odd days. This would double your charging rate while you would still have the same total battery capacity ( just half held in the reserve bank). I may have to do something like that with my bank because more panels are not an option right now.


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## MountainGirl

Chipper said:


> I do like the setup but only 8 acres, seriously?? Must have a lot of neighbors/friends close by. Are they on the same page or a liability?? Envy not hardly, you'll burn up those few pine trees the first hard winter. Hows the garden going??


Hi Chipper, 8 acres out here are probably a lot different than 8 acres where you are. Nearest neighbor is half-mile away (as the hawk flies) and the handful of folks around here (5-mi radius) sing in the same choir, if ya know what I mean.  Luckily, there's more wood within reach than we could burn in a few lifetimes...some pine, but mostly fir. Thanks for your reply!


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## 8301

Chiefster23 said:


> Thank you John. I use crown golf cart batteries. Just visited their site and yes, according to their guidelines I am not charging the batteries hard enough. They say 10 to 20% of total AH (20 hr rate). I have six 205 a-hr, six volt batteries connected in series/parallel to produce 615 amp-hr of 12 volt power. So I guess I should be charging at 60 amps or greater. My 600 watts of panels probably never do better than 40to 45 amps. Adding panels is not an option at this time. How about charging with a 55amp charger once a month? Still not ideal but maybe better than nothing?


615 amp/hr batteries charging at 40 amps = C/15 rate or at about the 7% rate.

Golf cart batteries have some (can't remember the name but it starts with an A) mixed into the lead plates to make them harder and more resistant to being bumped around. But this additional element makes them less wiling to accept a charge. Because of that they require a stronger charging current.


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## MountainGirl

Slippy said:


> @*MountainGirl*
> 
> Great job! Y'all got it going on up in the mountains!
> 
> Most certainly, SLIPPY APPROVED!:vs_closedeyes:


Thanks, Slippy means a lot. Truly.

_(Dang! How do I get that 'mention' tag thingy to work, like you did up there to 'MountainGirl'??)_


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## 8301

MountainGirl said:


> John Galt, first, thank you for taking the time to go into such detail. I wish my husband and I had your aptitude for this, we do not. What I can do, however, is print out your posts and run this by Randy (my solar pro) - for his input and suggestions. There were concerns, when choosing options for the system, that this type of monitoring and maintenance of lead acid batteries was above our skill-set; we did consider silicon-salt, but the cost was prohibitive. If, as things stand, we'll lose them way too soon, perhaps that would have been the better choice - but, that's water under the bridge. So... maybe what we'll do is have Randy come up to handle this aspect. We should have some nice venison steaks for trade.
> 
> Thanks again for all your help!


Checking SGs and writing down the results isn't hard but it takes a bit of time (maybe 45 minutes with your 48 cells) but is worth doing every month or two.. Using a clamp meter on the battery cables only takes a minute. Neither test is rocket science and by having a record you can sometimes spot trends at the individual cell level.
If 2-3 cells become a more resistant to taking a charge (low SG in those cells) that energy goes into other cells potentially overcharging your best cells and eventually damaging your best cells. This is how a premium battery bank can be fried in less than 3 years

@MountainGirl , the fact that you are running 4 battery strings makes testing even more important. Put an hour in with a SG meter and learn.
When a person buys their 1st set of batteries many installers suggest that they start with a cheap set as they learn. Shame to kill a high dollar set while learning.


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## MountainGirl

******* said:


> Wonder if she realizes ole @*Slippy* doesn't approve of much. To get his seal of approval is something to be proud of.
> 
> Hey @*MountainGirl* , you drink bourbon?


Bourbon? Wouldn't touch the stuff. 
.
.
Scotch, is another story. 
And after reading this morning's posts, might start early. Right after chores, lol.


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## 8301

MountainGirl said:


> Luckily, there's more wood within reach than we could burn in a few lifetimes...some pine, but mostly fir. Thanks for your reply!


Ugg, I hate burning Fir, Pine, and Elm. The chimney and spark arrester gets buildup inside it too fast with those woods.


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## MountainGirl

Chiefster23 said:


> Mountaingirl. John hasn't weighed in yet but might I make the following suggestion. It should be relatively easy to divide your battery bank into two separate banks with a few switches. Simply alternate, running one bank on even days and the other on odd days. This would double your charging rate while you would still have the same total battery capacity ( just half held in the reserve bank). I may have to do something like that with my bank because more panels are not an option right now.


Hi Chiefster, I wondered about doing that... keeping the off bank in reserve, switching each month. 
@*John* ? Any input on this idea?

edit: well hell, i just sent that post to some other John. lolol


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## MountainGirl

John Galt said:


> Ugg, I hate burning Fir, Pine, and Elm. The chimney and spark arrester gets buildup inside it too fast with those woods.


No hardwoods up here to speak of; we seem to have this part figured out though.


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## 8301

MountainGirl said:


> Delta LA602DC Lightning Arrester
> Delta LA302R AC Lightning Arrester
> .


Rereading your post. Those Deltas are just caps that aren't considered very good. For the money you've got in that setup I'd conceder these instead. https://www.solar-electric.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=midnight+solar+surge

Take 10 minutes and watch this video about SPDs (surge protection device). A cap of the type you are using is tested at about the 5:30 mark.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...4DFF7935DF348CEF1E834DFF7935DF348CE&FORM=VIRE


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## Urinal Cake

I live in a high wind area due to the Atlantic ocean, down the shore. I want to set-up a wind system wiring into my solar inverter with interior wall plug array and paddle switch to run off grid when it's either strong sun or higher winds. My consultant says all very doable for around $6k (3kw) BUT $1250 per year in sRECs, would actually pay for itself in 4 years while continuing to receive sRecs for a total of 15 years.


----------



## 8301

Urinal Cake said:


> I live in a high wind area due to the Atlantic ocean, down the shore. I want to set-up a wind system wiring into my solar inverter with interior wall plug array and paddle switch to run off grid when it's either strong sun or higher winds. My consultant says all very doable for around $6k (3kw) BUT $1250 per year in sRECs, would actually pay for itself in 4 years while continuing to receive sRecs for a total of 15 years.
> View attachment 59226


If you use a VAWT like the one in the photo your repayment rate may be much longer. They aren't as efficient at a 3 blade horizontal turbine.


----------



## MountainGirl

John Galt said:


> Rereading your post. Those Deltas are just caps that aren't considered very good. For the money you've got in that setup I'd conceder these instead. https://www.solar-electric.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=midnight+solar+surge
> 
> Take 10 minutes and watch this video about SPDs (surge protection device). A cap of the type you are using is tested at about the 5:30 mark.
> https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...4DFF7935DF348CEF1E834DFF7935DF348CE&FORM=VIRE


And...the good news just keeps coming. So, basically, the system was designed wrong, with bad choices made. Fair enough. It was the best we could do with the money we had and the skill levels available. I do appreciate your input, John Galt, please don't think otherwise.

That said, I stated earlier we tested the SG of the cells, you said we didn't and just relied on the trimetric instead. Pfffft. We spend the time and have the readings. Because we might not fully understand (yet) what those numbers mean, or what to do about it, doesn't mean we sit on our ass and hire it out. Good to know, now, that a closer watch by Randy is warranted - or maybe not, since he's the one who put together the system so perhaps he no longer warrants our comfort and confidence level any more. Too bad you're not here, then everything would be done the right way.

Guess all I can say at this point is if (or as you suggest, when) things rodeo out on us - we can survive without any of it. That's the basic idea anyway... surviving independently of things that can fail and often do.


----------



## Urinal Cake

John Galt said:


> They aren't as efficient at a 3 blade horizontal turbine.


Illegal we have migratory birds here...
we avg 8 mph winds.


----------



## A Watchman

MountainGirl said:


> Bourbon? Wouldn't touch the stuff.
> .
> .
> Scotch, is another story.
> And after reading this morning's posts, might start early. Right after chores, lol.
> 
> View attachment 59210


We were not going to ask you to partake in the bourbon drinking, only to bring a bottle or two, huh?. We are fully aware that such an endeavor should strictly be indulged in .... only by us professionals. Now as to your Chivas Regal ...... way back in my wilder days a little Chivas and water with a lemon was my drink for a spell. Sorry, but I simply never acquired a true appreciation for the taste and moved on.

I think you have figured it out by now, but a member gets a notification both; if you quote them or tag their full member name with the @ symbol preceding the bolded and underlined name. :vs_wave:


----------



## MountainGirl

A Watchman said:


> We were not going to ask you to partake in the bourbon drinking, only to bring a bottle or two, huh?. We are fully aware that such an endeavor should strictly be indulged in .... only by us professionals. Now as to your Chivas Regal ...... way back in my wilder days a little Chivas and water with a lemon was my drink for a spell. Sorry, but I simply never acquired a true appreciation for the taste and moved on.
> 
> I think you have figured it out by now, but a member gets a notification both; if you quote them or tag their full member name with the @ symbol preceding the bolded and underlined name. :vs_wave:


LOL sure, I can bring a bottle or three...but you professional-Bourbon-drinkers will have to advise what brand, etc. I can BMOB, and wont need accoutrements; _pour moi_, straight shot, no fruit or aqua in any state required. 

Thanks for the tagging tip! How about the folks with spaces in their nicks? Like... Old SF Guy ? Doesn't the @ in front of Old stop at that first space? Maybe in the advanced editor I can highlight OSFG's nick, and click that little tag thingy...

Test1: @*Old SF Guy* 
Test2: @*Old SF Guy* 
Test3: @*Old SF Guy*

Oh well, I'll just keep quoting for some of you.

****
Edit: Oops, looks like the first two worked. HI Special Forces!







(Sorry 'bout that.)


----------



## A Watchman

MountainGirl said:


> LOL sure, I can bring a bottle or three...but you professional-Bourbon-drinkers will have to advise what brand, etc. I can BMOB, and wont need accoutrements; _pour moi_, straight shot, no fruit or aqua in any state required.
> 
> Thanks for the tagging tip! How about the folks with spaces in their nicks? Like... Old SF Guy ? Doesn't the @ in front of Old stop at that first space? Maybe in the advanced editor I can highlight OSFG's nick, and click that little tag thingy...
> 
> Test1: @Old SF Guy
> Test2: @Old SF Guy
> Test3: @*Old SF Guy*
> 
> Oh well, I'll just keep quoting for some of you.


It works just as you typed it. Good luck and carry on!


----------



## 8301

MountainGirl said:


> And...the good news just keeps coming. So, basically, the system was designed wrong, with bad choices made. Fair enough. It was the best we could do with the money we had and the skill levels available. I do appreciate your input, John Galt, please don't think otherwise.
> 
> That said, I stated earlier we tested the SG of the cells, you said we didn't and just relied on the trimetric instead. Pfffft. We spend the time and have the readings. Because we might not fully understand (yet) what those numbers mean, or what to do about it, doesn't mean we sit on our ass and hire it out. Good to know, now, that a closer watch by Randy is warranted - or maybe not, since he's the one who put together the system so perhaps he no longer warrants our comfort and confidence level any more. Too bad you're not here, then everything would be done the right way.
> 
> Guess all I can say at this point is if (or as you suggest, when) things rodeo out on us - we can survive without any of it. That's the basic idea anyway... surviving independently of things that can fail and often do.


Ouch! :sad2: Guess I deserved that.

While having the list of your last SG levels would be nice it'd take you a long time to type out. Can you send me a few of the highest and a few of the lowest?
example: 1.275, 1.281, 1.278, 1.255, 1.247, 1.262
Meanwhile here is a handy SG chart with corresponding battery resting voltages.








Hey, I've yet to design and build a solar (or hydro, or wind) setup that within a few months I didn't wish I'd done something different.


----------



## Redneck

John Galt said:


> Ouch! :sad2: Guess I deserved that.


Not IMO for someone offering free advise. Just saying, but maybe I took the comments wrong. Just seemed a bit harsh to me.


----------



## 8301

Not meant to be harsh but as I said in an earlier post "Lot to cover so I'm just going to hit the high points".

Carefully crafting my words to make something that is complicated easier to understand tends to make me a little more direct in my statements. But I shouldn't have assumed that MountainGirl wasn't monitoring their SGs. I figured that if she was she would have seen uneven cell and string charging and mentioned it.

...or maybe I'm wrong and all cells are well balanced which would be unusual in a setup like that. On the site link I posted earlier I read the other day about a guy with 4 battery strings who burned out his 24v battery bank in 2 years from unbalanced strings. People having 3 or more strings resulting in short battery life (unbalanced strings) is a common topic on that site.


----------



## MountainGirl

Rented a trencher for the wire run; much easier than a 100' of digging uphill.


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## MountainGirl

Last winter. As long as we keep the snow from piling up below the array, it slides off just fine. My fave snowshoe trail goes off right behind it up there, so doing this is a joy. 

Even still, it would be nice if Jake would dig it out, lol. See the dog?


----------



## Old SF Guy

I think you guys have done awesome, now yur at the point of learning more about it and can improve the duration of your batteries with this additional knowledge. Your pro may have other idea that he is doing or he may have to learn a little more. as long as he answers the questions in a positive way that makes since . It can only help you since he may be the guy who continues to work on the projects for you. Bottom line is there are many ways to skin a cat...my way and the cats way differ greatly, but that doesn't mean we are both wrong.


I am impressed with your minimal living setup and your enjoyment doing it...thats 90% of it to me...getting out of the city, social mind set and learn to exist and enjoy what god has given us.


----------



## Prepared One

A Watchman said:


> We were not going to ask you to partake in the bourbon drinking, only to bring a bottle or two, huh?. We are fully aware that such an endeavor should strictly be indulged in .... only by us professionals. Now as to your Chivas Regal ...... way back in my wilder days a little Chivas and water with a lemon was my drink for a spell. Sorry, but I simply never acquired a true appreciation for the taste and moved on.
> 
> I think you have figured it out by now, but a member gets a notification both; if you quote them or tag their full member name with the @ symbol preceding the bolded and underlined name. :vs_wave:


Tried the Scotch thing in my early days as well. Never could acquire the taste for it. No worries. I can keep my professional status in high standing quite well with a nice Bourbon. :vs_cool:


----------



## 8301

MountainGirl said:


> Last winter. As long as we keep the snow from piling up below the array, it slides off just fine. My fave snowshoe trail goes off right behind it up there, so doing this is a joy.
> 
> Even still, it would be nice if Jake would dig it out, lol. See the dog?
> 
> View attachment 59338


In heavy snow areas if a person has a building with a roughly south facing wall I've seen them mount panels on the vertical wall minimizing snow on the panels. The panels aren't as efficient with no tilt but it's a compromise. When doing something like this it's usually best to put the vertical panels on a separate controller.

I've even seen people build a shed with a large south facing wall specifically for mounting the panels on.


----------



## tango

Scotch? YUK!
That stuff is like trying to drink carbeurator cleaner


----------



## 8301

Urinal Cake said:


> I live in a high wind area due to the Atlantic ocean, down the shore. I want to set-up a wind system wiring into my solar inverter with interior wall plug array and paddle switch to run off grid when it's either strong sun or higher winds. My consultant says all very doable for around $6k (3kw) BUT $1250 per year in sRECs, would actually pay for itself in 4 years while continuing to receive sRecs for a total of 15 years.
> View attachment 59226


What are sRecs? But I'd go for it.


----------



## Urinal Cake

John Galt said:


> What are sRecs? But I'd go for it.


https://blog.heatspring.com/how-do-srecs-work/


----------



## MountainGirl

John Galt said:


> In heavy snow areas if a person has a building with a roughly south facing wall I've seen them mount panels on the vertical wall minimizing snow on the panels. The panels aren't as efficient with no tilt but it's a compromise. When doing something like this it's usually best to put the vertical panels on a separate controller.
> 
> I've even seen people build a shed with a large south facing wall specifically for mounting the panels on.


Hi John, those are really good ideas. One downside to our place is lack of sunny spots. Husb had to thin out many trees just for the cabin site all those years ago, so even the sheds (existing and planned) get _maybe_ an hour or two of spotty sun. There is one area now (the new septic drain field), about 150' away that's a gentle slope and gets 5-6 hours in the summer... but eventually that will be gardens/greenhouse/etc. Maybe. LOL

I sent Randy a (positive, lol) email with your thoughts about having a balanced system, and my idea of running the batteries down for a hard generator charge-back, etc - and should hear back from him soon. I think a good resolution can be found - and, even though my post didn't sound like it, I am very grateful for your words and concern. You have so much more knowledge on this than we do; it wasn't that I was insulted or butt-hurt because of that... more like... I dont want, and cant have, complicated things and systems in my life anymore, and you made it complicated. Well, ok, _you_ didn't make it complicated; the system is inherently such.

I wanted to ask your opinion on Silicon Salt batteries. Do you think that might have been a workable choice in our configuration? Maybe I'll swap the Rolls out. Would that be possible? Now _there'd_ be a good barter/trade. 

Thanks (And it just started snowing here. First of the season! yay!)


----------



## MountainGirl

@Old SF Guy 
kind words, thanks


----------



## Redneck

MountainGirl said:


> (And it just started snowing here. First of the season! yay!)


I really wonder about some of you folks. 

If I never saw another flake of snow or never experienced another day below freezing, I'd be tickled pink. I'm already ready for summer.


----------



## hawgrider

Im just here for the Bourbon.


----------



## Chiefster23

After operating my solar system for 2 years, I am ashamed to say I took my first set of S.G. Readings on my batteries today. Thankfully the seem ok. Not great, but not bad. I am ordering a better hydrometer today. More research backs up John’s advice that I have too few panels for my battery bank. So this afternoon I am cutting out 2 of the 6 batteries. Short term I will be devising a system that periodically rotates out 2 of the batteries but balances the wear on all 6. Eventually I will probably buy 2 more batteries and and have 2 banks and alternate their use. Thanks to all for your input cause “ I didn’t know what I didn’t know.” Please keep us posted MountainGirl.


----------



## MountainGirl

John Galt said:


> Meanwhile here is a handy SG chart with corresponding battery resting voltages.
> View attachment 59282


Ok, I'm trying to catch up with you a little bit. At this moment, with nothing running or cycling -

The Trimetric meter says: Battery charge: 91%, Voltage:24.6
I just measured SG on three cells in three diff batteries on two (strings): (1.247, 1.250) (1.275)

Here's the chart from the Rolls Manual
% Charge -- Specific Gravity (SG)

100% 1.255 - 1.275

 75% 1.215 - 1.235

 50% 1.200 - 1.180

 25% 1.165 - 1.155

 0% 1.130 - 1.110


Ok, so my take is that the cell/batts in one string are pretty close, but way lower than the other string. Just trying to learn what all this means, and what we should do about it. Haven't heard back from Randy; might not until this evening.

Thanks!

Edit to add: I _kinda_ know what it means...just not sure what to do about it.


----------



## MountainGirl

Chiefster23 said:


> After operating my solar system for 2 years, I am ashamed to say I took my first set of S.G. Readings on my batteries today. Thankfully the seem ok. Not great, but not bad. I am ordering a better hydrometer today. More research backs up John's advice that I have too few panels for my battery bank. So this afternoon I am cutting out 2 of the 6 batteries. Short term I will be devising a system that periodically rotates out 2 of the batteries but balances the wear on all 6. Eventually I will probably buy 2 more batteries and and have 2 banks and alternate their use. Thanks to all for your input cause " I didn't know what I didn't know." Please keep us posted MountainGirl.


Hi Chiefster. Hope your plan works for you! I'm a tad disillusioned at the moment and don't like the feeling of having to depend on someone else (Randy) to manage this. I applaud you for building your own and being able to make the changes to your system as you discover better ways of doing. Frankly, if it wasn't needed to run the well pump, I'd put the whole thing on Ebay. I'm about ready to tear it all apart, find out how it all works, and then put it back together and see if everything runs! Better, maybe, if I remember its not a '67 Chev with a 327, 4bbl Holley carb...and just keep my pickin hands off of it. :-D

I threw the switch on the panels. Soon as (something) looks like 80% I'm going to fire up the generator. We'll see what that does.


----------



## 8301

tango said:


> Scotch? YUK!
> That stuff is like trying to drink carbeurator cleaner


Back in collage the guy in the next dorm room often got sloshed on Cutty Shark Scotch. I tried some of his Scotch, nasty... So later I asked Dad why people drank Scotch. 
My father said people start drinking Scotch when they've drunk so much booze in their lives that the taste buds are dead.


----------



## 8301

MountainGirl said:


> I wanted to ask your opinion on Silicon Salt batteries.


Silicon Salt batteries, Pretty close in charging and maintance to AGMs but may last a few years longer (unproven, only Chinese manufactures claims). Great choice if the batteries are stored in a room that gets below freezing since their capacity doesn't drop nearly as much as the LA batteries you have now. LA batteries will freeze if discharged but usually not if they are charged over 50% at 0 degrees Fahrenheit while Silicon Salt batteries can go much colder before freezing and hold a lot more power at cooler temps. Cycle life at 20% DOD (depth of discharge) is a "claimed 4400 cycles or about 12 years. Keep in mind that these are manufactures claims with no track record of over 3 years that I'm aware of. Warranty is 3 years so even the manufacturer is a little weary with their unproven "4400 cycles".

Back Woods Solar has an article after a 2 year test and sells them. Backwoods Solar | Silicon Salt Batteries
Chinese manufacturer Silicone Rechargeable Battery 
I understand that US manufacturer Aquion went out of business last March.

Salt batteries are expensive (6v 229ah $292) That's about half the capacity of the Rolls you now have. Also I'm not aware of any larger (or lower voltage) salt batteries on the market so lots of battery strings for a large system and we know where that leads.

Schneider (Conext) is about to come out with a Lithium choice that may be worth considering. Conext Bridge for XW+ Li-ions from LG and Hoppecke announced for 2nd half 2017 ? northernarizona-windandsun

final thought, I find the Sodium Salt batteries very interesting but if they were much of an improvement over the AGM and LA batteries why aren't the major manufacturers building them?


----------



## MountainGirl

John Galt said:


> ...
> Salt batteries are expensive (6v 229ah $292) That's about half the capacity of the Rolls you now have. Also I'm not aware of any larger (or lower voltage) salt batteries on the market so lots of battery strings for a large system and we know where that leads.
> 
> ...
> 
> final thought, I find the Sodium Salt batteries very interesting but if they were much of an improvement over the AGM and LA batteries why aren't the major manufacturers building them?


That's a very good question. Backwoods Solar are great folks, in our neck of the woods; some of our components came through them. One person (not Backwoods or Randy) suggested using one fork-lift battery, (1,000+ lbs?) but the dynamics of how and where to put it, or move it to replace it, we weren't sure about. But at least there wouldn't have been 4 strings.  
Thanks for your reply, and I'm enjoying reading the old threads too; learning a lot.


----------



## MountainGirl

Prepared One said:


> Tried the Scotch thing in my early days as well. Never could acquire the taste for it. No worries. I can keep my professional status in high standing quite well with a nice Bourbon. :vs_cool:


I never acquired the taste for Scotch either, lol. I drank my share of beer (teens & 20's) and wine (30's & 40's) and around 50 pretty much quit drinking altogether...although I will enjoy a beer or two on the rare times we go dancin down in the valley. That half-empty bottle of Chivas in my earlier pic above has lasted since it was given to me 3 years ago, when mom died. Sometimes, but not often these days, a girl just needs a shot of Scotch. :angel:


----------



## 8301

MountainGirl said:


> Ok, I'm trying to catch up with you a little bit. At this moment, with nothing running or cycling -
> 
> The Trimetric meter says: Battery charge: 91%, Voltage:24.6
> I just measured SG on three cells in three diff batteries on two (strings): (1.247, 1.250) (1.275)
> 
> Here's the chart from the Rolls Manual
> % Charge -- Specific Gravity (SG)
> 
> 100% 1.255 - 1.275
> 
> 75% 1.215 - 1.235
> 
> 50% 1.200 - 1.180
> 
> 25% 1.165 - 1.155
> 
> 0% 1.130 - 1.110
> 
> 
> Ok, so my take is that the cell/batts in one string are pretty close, but way lower than the other string. Just trying to learn what all this means, and what we should do about it. Haven't heard back from Randy; might not until this evening.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Edit to add: I _kinda_ know what it means...just not sure what to do about it.


Mountain Girl,,, you can do this. :tango_face_grin: Having said that I'm going straight into "teaching mode" so please excuse my briskness.

Resting battery voltage means the batteries have no load or charging for at least 3 hrs, and 5 hrs is better. Having said that as you can see on the chart I put up in an earlier post your "resting voltage" indicates that your battery bank is actually about 65% charged (assuming it had rested at least 3 hrs before that measurement was taken). Batteries take a few hours for load and charging strains between the cells (surface voltage) to even out giving accurate voltage readings. In that case I'd conceder making your absorb time (charge controller settings) longer (bumping battery absorb voltage may be needed later). The Trimetric is a wonderful meter but as stated earlier all charge meters drift off with time.

As far as the "Rolls chart" even they agree that 1.277 is a full charge. About 1.258 is 90% SOC (state of charge) This is shown on the earlier posted chart picture. And your 1.247 cell reading is about 85% charged. I suspect that more readings will show a wider variance since your "resting voltage is 24.6".

At this early point of both of us learning about your solar system (just 3 SG readings)I'm suspecting that you have to many battery strings causing uneven charging. The cure is distasteful and a lot of work. In the long term get down to 2 strings of batteries (One string of twenty-four 2v batteries may be a better choice).

But working with what you have I'd now suggest breaking your battery bank into 4 strings of 4 batteries each. letting the sun run an absorb cycle and then the generator until your absorb amps drops to under 2% of the battery bank capacity (about 17 amps total battery bank or 4 amps for a single string of 4 batteries). This may take 6+ hours generator time but what we are doing is getting the battery bank as fully charged as absorb can. Now make sure the water is good in all cells and go to Equalize. Keep checking the SG in the weaker cells and EQ until they stop rising (check once an hour). This may take 3 hours but EQ no longer than 3 hrs (protecting the batteries). Stop the EQ early if battery temperatures get above 105 degrees.

I just don't know what to say Girl, with 4 you've just got an unmanageable number of battery strings. Before you conceder doing the above go to Home Depot and get a clamp meter that can read DC voltage. Put it on the different strings as they are charging hard (or under heavy load) and you'll see the imbalances. You can change battery cable lengths to increase resistance in an effort to balance the charging but it usually doesn't work well.

Can you do nothing and get a few more years out of the current batteries,,, yep. Will you get the expected 8-10 years out of those premium Rolls batteries as currently setup, probably not.


----------



## MountainGirl

Wow.
Okay.
Need to read this a couple of times for it to absorb.

We're heading into the closest city tomorrow to pick up a few things while we still can; will buy a DC voltage clamp meter. Resting voltage - means we shut off the whole system (so there's no load); can do that this weekend coming (Or maybe the EMP test on Nov4th will do that for us, lol) or probably wait until we get this understood a bit more. I'll send a few pics of how they're set up after we get back up here later tomorrow. Glad you think I can do this. There's a lot I can do and do well. This??? Dunno. Kinda scares the bejeezus out of me.

Back soon, & thanks again


----------



## Back Pack Hack

MountainGirl said:


> .............We're heading into the closest city tomorrow to pick up a few things while we still can; will buy a DC voltage clamp meter. ...........


DC voltage clamp meter? Never heard of such. Yes, a DC ampere clamp meter, but not voltage.

FYI, DC ammeters are fairly rare critters. You're not going to find any at Home Cheapo, Blowe's and Untrue Value. Plenty of AC ammeters, but DC ammeters you'll likely need to go to an electrical supply house or order online.


----------



## 8301

Back Pack Hack said:


> DC voltage clamp meter? Never heard of such. Yes, a DC ampere clamp meter, but not voltage.
> 
> FYI, DC ammeters are fairly rare critters. You're not going to find any at Home Cheapo, Blowe's and Untrue Value. Plenty of AC ammeters, but DC ammeters you'll likely need to go to an electrical supply house or order online.


Oops, yep, I meant a DC Amp clamp meter. But Yes, Home depot does sell several models that can be switched to DC. One of mine came from Home Depot.


----------



## Back Pack Hack

John Galt said:


> Oops, yep, I meant a DC Amp clamp meter. But Yes, Home depot does sell several models that can be switched to DC. One of mine came from Home Depot.


DC amp meter at Home Depot? Make & model? All the ones here are AC amps only.


----------



## 8301

Back Pack Hack said:


> DC amp meter at Home Depot? Make & model? All the ones here are AC amps only.


It's sealed in the EMP bags, bought it maybe 2 years ago, tested it and tossed it in the bag, It is a GreenLee. Does Home Depot not carry them anymore?


----------



## Redneck

Why not just order from Amazon & let them deliver? I have an Amprobe ACDC-100 1000A AC/DC Clamp Meter that I got from them. I'm no electrical wizard but works fine for me. I'm sure you could find whatever you need.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001C6P38U/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Back Pack Hack

John Galt said:


> It's sealed in the EMP bags, bought it maybe 2 years ago, tested it and tossed it in the bag, It is a GreenLee. Does Home Depot not carry them anymore?


I've been both to the stores and their website. No DC ammeters to be found.


----------



## MountainGirl

What we've decided to do is just relax about this a little bit. With the panels shut off since yesterday, the Trimetric read had dropped down to 82% by the time we got home a few hours ago. Fired up the gen right away (up to 92% now) and will let it run till fully charged. Then...it's back to what we usually do, only will make sure it gets a good drop/charge at least once a week, until we figure out if re-configuring is the way to go. Will keep closer watch on SGs, picked up a better filler in town, Tom says he has a volt-meter that will work, and we got 6" of snow in the last 24hrs. 

Such goes life on Peaceful Mountain.









Thanks everyone for all your input, most appreciated!


----------



## Chiefster23

MountainGirl. I love this website. I learn so much here. That said:
As I posted a couple days ago, I checked my battery SG and the readings were fair, but not good (not equal). I panicked thinking I was damaging my bank. So more research and reading. I have CROWN golf cart batteries and CROWN recomends at least a 10% charge rate. (We already covered this). So I charged the bank from my grid powered charger, equalized the bank from my panels, corrected the water level, AND LEFT THE BATTERIES REST OVERNIGHT. Then I retested the SG. All cells measure very very close to equal now. ????

So I have decided to just continue as I have been doing for 2 years. No disrespect to John (I very much appreciate his input). I will start to pay much better attention to the battery bank. Test monthly and keep records. And if I notice unequal readings I will repeat my labors of the last 2 days. But basically, I’m with you. For now pay closer attention but just continue the course and see how it all plays out. If my bank needs replacing prematurely I will be kicking myself in the a—! But for now I’m going to quit stressing. Enjoy your early snowfall!


----------



## 8301

Chiefster23 said:


> I have CROWN golf cart batteries and CROWN recomends at least a 10% charge rate. (We already covered this). So I charged the bank from my grid powered charger, equalized the bank from my panels, corrected the water level, AND LEFT THE BATTERIES REST OVERNIGHT. Then I retested the SG. All cells measure very very close to equal now. ????
> 
> So I have decided to just continue as I have been doing for 2 years. No disrespect to John (I very much appreciate his input). I will start to pay much better attention to the battery bank. Test monthly and keep records. And if I notice unequal readings I will repeat my labors of the last 2 days. But basically, I'm with you. For now pay closer attention but just continue the course and see how it all plays out. If my bank needs replacing prematurely I will be kicking myself in the a-! But for now I'm going to quit stressing. Enjoy your early snowfall!


That's the way to do it.. Stressing over every .005 SG reading is too unproductive but occasional checking and cycling is the trick.


----------



## Chiefster23

I have two generators. A Honda 2kw inverter/generator and a military surplus 3kw diesel genny. The Honda is of course portable. The diesel is hardwired to feed into my breaker box.


----------



## MountainGirl

I'm bumping this up, after reading through the whole thing. 
@*paulag1955* - for some reason, I thought you might enjoy seeing it; and Chiefster - you might get a kick out of it too. LOL
And maybe some of the new folks might find it interesting as well..just so you know how crazy we are. Start at the first post. :vs_smirk:

For an update, and some of it will only make sense to some here, we left the battery bank wired up in 4 strings, and it's doing just fine. Had to replace a faulty inverter fan in the 2nd year (still under warranty, no cost to us) and the system is still meeting all our needs. It might be the over-build meant less stress on things not having to work so hard; and in the heat of summer there's enough power coming down to run an air conditioner at night. Also - we switched out the propane HW heater last year for a 20gal 110 unit, and in the low-sun winter just switch it on when we want to shower/whatever, it takes less than an hour to heat up, and if the batts drop below 90% start up the gen. Not having to plow out to run down to fill propane tanks is a gift!! Tom maintains the battery bank, Randy still comes once a year to check everything out, all good.

And, as always, if the whole solar system goes belly up - we'll be just fine. 
The hand-pump was installed last summer so we'll always have water; we heat with plentiful wood; game abounds.
Life is still good on Peaceful Mountain.

Hey @Chiefster23 - any major changes on your mountain since your last post here?


----------



## MountainGirl

The Tourist said:


> Well, Mountain Girl, my wife and I have a simpler system.
> 
> Once per month a shiny black limousine shows up, and a guy in a pinstriped suit rings our doorbell. We give him our monthly bills, and they don't ever seem to come back. My wife says this guy must be a relative of one of my uncles, but my uncles are all swarthy and dark haired--this runner is a blonde.
> 
> I think this guy is from Publishers' Clearing House. My wife says he might run a Girl Scout Troop. What the heck would a troop leader do with a 1911 in a shoulder rig? I mean, the magazines come in the mail without a runner, so I'm confused...


I think you're being paged over in the knife forum. Pickman04 is asking for help with a blade.


----------



## Chiefster23

No changes to my system in a while now but some may be coming soon. I have 1000 watts of panels going into a charge controller max rated for 1000 watts. With the crappy winter weather I’m getting squat from my array. So I’m considering adding a couple hundred watts more panels to be used fall thru spring and switched out in summer so as not to overload the controller. My batteries are five years old and getting tired. Their replacement is going to be a nice sized bill.


----------



## MountainGirl

Chiefster23 said:


> No changes to my system in a while now but some may be coming soon. I have 1000 watts of panels going into a charge controller max rated for 1000 watts. With the crappy winter weather I'm getting squat from my array. So I'm considering adding a couple hundred watts more panels to be used fall thru spring and switched out in summer so as not to overload the controller. My batteries are five years old and getting tired. Their replacement is going to be a nice sized bill.


We have 2115 watts of panels - and even on the brightest noon summer day, I never saw more than 2k coming down. Line loss? Rating overstatement? Who knows. 
Yeah...the battery replacement will be tough here. Gotta start saving up for it. Doubt we'll get the 10years I was hoping for. :vs_laugh:


----------



## paulag1955

MountainGirl said:


> I'm bumping this up, after reading through the whole thing.
> @*paulag1955* - for some reason, I thought you might enjoy seeing it; and Chiefster - you might get a kick out of it too. LOL
> And maybe some of the new folks might find it interesting as well..just so you know how crazy we are. Start at the first post. :vs_smirk:
> 
> For an update, and some of it will only make sense to some here, we left the battery bank wired up in 4 strings, and it's doing just fine. Had to replace a faulty inverter fan in the 2nd year (still under warranty, no cost to us) and the system is still meeting all our needs. It might be the over-build meant less stress on things not having to work so hard; and in the heat of summer there's enough power coming down to run an air conditioner at night. Also - we switched out the propane HW heater last year for a 20gal 110 unit, and in the low-sun winter just switch it on when we want to shower/whatever, it takes less than an hour to heat up, and if the batts drop below 90% start up the gen. Not having to plow out to run down to fill propane tanks is a gift!! Tom maintains the battery bank, Randy still comes once a year to check everything out, all good.
> 
> And, as always, if the whole solar system goes belly up - we'll be just fine.
> The hand-pump was installed last summer so we'll always have water; we heat with plentiful wood; game abounds.
> Life is still good on Peaceful Mountain.
> 
> Hey @Chiefster23 - any major changes on your mountain since your last post here?


Yes, ma'am, I am interested! There is a ton of information here to read and digest!


----------



## MountainGirl

paulag1955 said:


> Yes, ma'am, I am interested! There is a ton of information here to read and digest!


There is that, yes. More info than I'll ever need for sure, lol.

Re-reading about my beginning times (in the OP), and learning curves since then - reminded me of your posts, about your beginning times coming in Coulee. 
Such a wonderful adventure, this, and I wish you the best on yours. :tango_face_grin:


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## paulag1955

MountainGirl said:


> There is that, yes. More info than I'll ever need for sure, lol.
> 
> Re-reading about my beginning times (in the OP), and learning curves since then - reminded me of your posts, about your beginning times coming in Coulee.
> Such a wonderful adventure, this, and I wish you the best on yours. :tango_face_grin:


Solar would be a slam dunk in GC, as long as you could avoid wind damage.


----------



## Crunch

Thanks for bumping this thread @MountainGirl, I searched back through a couple years of posts when I joined but somehow missed this one entirely. Great setup, and not just the solar power but the whole offgrid home solution. Reading through it was almost funny how much our homes have in common; amount of acreage, generator selection, wood heat, propane appliances, batteries, 24v system, well hand pump, and even how you guys started out on the adventure. We got a couple years on you, offgrid since late 2006, wouldn't worry much about the banned guy's comment's on your batteries (or the config) either - ours are still the originals and every year since about 2013 I tell the wife "we'll need new batteries in a year or two", but they just keep going, and going, and going like the Energizer bunny


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## MountainGirl

You're most welcome @Crunch Glad you enjoyed the read, and yes, it's cool how things parallel with us folks who do this... it kinda gives me hope that the choices _we_ made were good ones, lol.. and we're most def doing the Energizer Bunny dance here too.


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## The Tourist

A Watchman said:


> might have to let her into our good ole' boy club here, huh?


Sure, we can't bring knives and guns into the forum clubhouse, but a pretty girl with liquor gets in on a whim!

On second thought...


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## bigwheel

Very cool. Thanks for sharing.


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## Back Pack Hack

Inor said:


> ......... Yes, he posts some pictures of some cheap shit-bag knives that he has supposedly sharpened to razors edge. ............


I didn't even believe they were that sharp.... he just likes bragging about using 100,000,000,000,000,000-grit to _polish_ the edge.


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## Inor

Back Pack Hack said:


> I didn't even believe they were that sharp.... he just likes bragging about using 100,000,000,000,000,000-grit to _polish_ the edge.


Agreed, more likely, he is polishing his knob... :devil:


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## Inor

MountainGirl said:


> Maybe when all this sorts itself out, however things go, the Mods/Admin could delete posts #... 93, ..., 95, any new related ones, and this post - to clean up the thread? It would be nice to get back to topic without having all this on it.
> 
> Thanks, most appreciated. :vs_wave:


I'm crushed! :vs_frown:


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## Denton

MountainGirl said:


> Ok ok kudos to you!!
> No hurry on the clean up, I'll be busy with another little project.
> All good!


:vs-kiss:
Good luck with your project. I hope you find a lawyer who is pro-freedom who will stay true to procedure and not be afraid of being disbarred.


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## The Tourist

Actually, this is a blessing. I joined a forum a few weeks ago where we actually talk about the hobby in question and not the forum members. I like this new radical forum and it's more mature members.

So delete my handle and threads all you want--I don't want to be associated with you either.


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## Denton

The Tourist said:


> Actually, this is a blessing. I joined a forum a few weeks ago where we actually talk about the hobby in question and not the forum members. I like this new radical forum and it's more mature members.
> 
> So delete my handle and threads all you want--I don't want to be associated with you either.


As I explained to you the last few times you said this, we aren't about "deleting" accounts and all associated posts as it makes responses disjointed. 
Mature? You mean like your nonsensical post about a black limo in this thread? That is merely one example of immature and, convoluted and unneeded and unwanted responses. 
Good luck with your new forum. Don't act like you did at this forum and you might now wear out your welcome. If you do, you'll still have your mall friends, your coffee shop buddies and your bikers buds.


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## Old SF Guy

Back Pack Hack said:


> I didn't even believe they were that sharp.... he just likes bragging about using 100,000,000,000,000,000-grit to _polish_ the edge.


I'm a show me sort of fella.....he never seemed that sharp, so I suspected the blades weren't either....now I'm not a knife connoisseur...but a folding knife is a folding knife is a folding knife....and like sun glasses...I expect to loose them well before I wear them out, so I have several lying around... but I ain't about to pay someone to put an edge on em.

Now as far as the other stuff.... Everyone here should know to play by the rules of decorum. Anyone found trolling the group or members should be called out. Once it continues, then it should fall into the Admin's realm. As for me....I treat every person on here as though they were a 49 year old balding fat guy.....at least thats what I have in my mind....especially if someones acting demure and all winky winky.... .. Naw...fat dude.

Keeps us all safer that way.


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## Deebo

Old SF Guy said:


> I'm a show me sort of fella.....he never seemed that sharp, so I suspected the blades weren't either....now I'm not a knife connoisseur...but a folding knife is a folding knife is a folding knife....and like sun glasses...I expect to loose them well before I wear them out, so I have several lying around... but I ain't about to pay someone to put an edge on em.
> 
> Now as far as the other stuff.... Everyone here should know to play by the rules of decorum. Anyone found trolling the group or members should be called out. Once it continues, then it should fall into the Admin's realm. As for me....I treat every person on here as though they were a 49 year old balding fat guy.....at least thats what I have in my mind....especially if someones acting demure and all winky winky.... .. Naw...fat dude.
> 
> Keeps us all safer that way.


I'm only 45 till Monday, then I'm only 46..


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## A Watchman

Denton said:


> As I explained to you the last few times you said this, we aren't about "deleting" accounts and all associated posts as it makes responses disjointed.
> Mature? You mean like your nonsensical post about a black limo in this thread? That is merely one example of immature and, convoluted and unneeded and unwanted responses.
> Good luck with your new forum. Don't act like you did at this forum and you might now wear out your welcome. If you do, you'll still have your mall friends, your coffee shop buddies and your bikers buds.


It took 5083 posts to get to this conclusion? :vs_unimpressed:


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## Back Pack Hack

Old SF Guy said:


> .........I treat every person on here as though they were a 49 year old balding fat guy..............


Kewl. I just lost 11 years.


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## Denton

A Watchman said:


> It took 5083 posts to get to this conclusion? :vs_unimpressed:


You know me. I'm long-suffering before I get fed up.


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## A Watchman

Denton said:


> You know me. I'm long-suffering before I get fed up.


All you had to do was ask, huh? :tango_face_wink:


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## Inor

Old SF Guy said:


> I treat every person on here as though they were a 49 year old balding fat guy.....at least thats what I have in my mind....


Thanks for the compliment!


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## hawgrider

Can I interest you in a cappuccino at the mall?


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## RubberDuck

hawgrider said:


> Can I interest you in a cappuccino at the mall?


Coming right up Sir...









Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Prepared One

Here we would be discussing matters of high importance like @Denton chasing butterflies while naked in a field of flowers and the tourist would interject some such nonsense like how sharp his knives are, the food court at a mall, black limousines, aunt Clara, or making creepy comments to the gals. When I did actually read his posts I always found myself scratching my head and asking WTF?????

Adios amigo.


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## rstanek

When he posted, I would start to read it and quickly lose interest, as time went on I just didn’t bother, side note, Not to brag, but I know how to sharpen a knife......


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## Chiefster23

Chico obviously has mental issues. I don’t say this to be mean or attack him. But from his chaotic and obsessive posts it seems pretty sure that the man has problems. But I hope he stays gone. Stalking and creeping out our female members is NOT acceptable.


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## hawgrider

Chiefster23 said:


> Chico obviously has mental issues. I don't say this to be mean or attack him. But from his chaotic and obsessive posts it seems pretty sure that the man has problems. But I hope he stays gone. Stalking and creeping out our female members is NOT acceptable.


Yes pretty much crossed the line Pming the lady folks here pushing his phone number.

Ummm thought he was married? Maybe his wife needs to keep a better leash on him? Oh wait maybe she is club property?



> C.C. Rider, see what you done now


----------



## Inor

Chiefster23 said:


> Chico obviously has mental issues. I don't say this to be mean or attack him. But from his chaotic and obsessive posts it seems pretty sure that the man has problems. But I hope he stays gone. Stalking and creeping out our female members is NOT acceptable.


It's okay to be mean and attack him. He is a douchebag; he deserves it.


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## Slippy

Prepared One said:


> Here we would be discussing matters of high importance like @Denton chasing butterflies while naked in a field of flowers and the tourist would interject some such nonsense like how sharp his knives are, the food court at a mall, black limousines, aunt Clara, or making creepy comments to the gals. When I did actually read his posts I always found myself scratching my head and asking WTF?????
> 
> Adios amigo.


^^^^^Nailed it!^^^^^


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## Annie

Goodbye and God bless for now, Tourist. I for one enjoyed a lot of your crazy posts. I think they're creative and original.


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## Inor

Annie said:


> Goodbye and God bless for now, Tourist. I for one enjoyed a lot of your crazy posts. I think they're creative and original.


He was just a dipshit until he started stalking our little sister. Then, the gloves had to come off.


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## hawgrider

Annie said:


> Goodbye and God bless for now, Tourist. I for one enjoyed a lot of your crazy posts. I think they're creative and original.


That's why you have us .... we see right thru that crap.


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## 1skrewsloose

Ever since I caught him in a lie about making his own knives from parts in the junk drawer I didn't have much time for him.


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## Annie

1skrewsloose said:


> Ever since I caught him in a lie about making his own knives from parts in the junk drawer I didn't have much time for him.


Okay, I just finished deleting a whole bunch of posts as per @MountainGirl's request. Let's get back on topic. Thanks.


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## Slippy

Annie said:


> Okay, I just finished deleting a whole bunch of posts as per @MountainGirl's request. Let's get back on topic. Thanks.


My bad, I thought our topic was bashing douchebags? :vs_smile:


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## Back Pack Hack

Slippy said:


> My bad, I thought our topic was bashing douchebags? :vs_smile:


Just change the title to the thread.
_
Our Off-Grid System & Life
Or, How We Bash Douchebags_


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## MountainGirl

Back Pack Hack said:


> Just change the title to the thread.
> _
> Our Off-Grid System & Life
> Or, How We Bash Douchebags_


 Yeah, I dont think so.
@Annie - thanks for the cleanup, and if you (or another Mod) would please get rid of the rest of the new offtopic posts *starting with #88 down through this one.. *we can really get back on topic. No reason to wash just half your face.

Major thanks!!


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## A Watchman

Annie said:


> Okay, I just finished deleting a whole bunch of posts as per @MountainGirl's request. Let's get back on topic. Thanks.


I protest in the name of standardization. This means that several posters have wasted their time and energy in continuing dialogue to only disappear.

Historically we have only cleaned up vulgar or inappropriate posts in threads. If Mods are going to start cleaning up threads that go sideways upon request by an OP, you better get up earlier in the morning. To whom should I send my request list to?


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## hawgrider

MountainGirl said:


> Yeah, I dont think so.
> @Annie - thanks for the cleanup, and if you (or another Mod) would please get rid of the rest of the new offtopic posts *starting with #88 down through this one.. *we can really get back on topic. No reason to wash just half your face.
> 
> Major thanks!!


Hey you know we are the Hierarchy of thread jacks. Since when are we all purists? delete 4 pages of posts?


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## 1skrewsloose

offtopic posts starting with #88 down through this one.. we can really get back on topic. No reason to wash just half your face.

What skin is it off your teeth if the posts remain?

Make life simple, just delete the whole thread.


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## Denton

A Watchman said:


> I protest in the name of standardization. This means that several posters have wasted their time and energy in continuing dialogue to only disappear.
> 
> Historically we have only cleaned up vulgar or inappropriate posts in threads. If Mods are going to start cleaning up threads that go sideways upon request by an OP, you better get up earlier in the morning. To whom should I send my request list to?


I agree with your thought however, this thread was a very good and specific thread that we took horribly off track. Sure, the braggart initiated it but we took it to the nth degree. 
Imagine someone attempting to read this thread to learn only to run into pages of what we did to this thread.

I hope we can get back to the topic and I hope we didn't irreparably taint it.


----------



## A Watchman

Denton said:


> I agree with your thought however, this thread was a very good and specific thread that we took horribly off track. Sure, the braggart initiated it but we took it to the nth degree.
> Imagine someone attempting to read this thread to learn only to run into pages of what we did to this thread.
> 
> I hope we can get back to the topic and I hope we didn't irreparably taint it.


The action would insinuate that this thread has more importance or relevance than other threads. The appropriate action would be a request to get back on topic. I stand by my comment and do not apreciate my energies being discarded as irrrelevant upon the request of others.


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## RubberDuck

Would it be just as easy to split the thread with a new name keeping both topics intact rather the deleted?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## 1skrewsloose

Deleting requested posts by the OP in any thread would set precedence, meaning the OP would decide what is and is not relevent to their thread. Is this the road we want to go down?

Don't even know if I've ever read any truly "clean" threads.


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## MountainGirl

1skrewsloose said:


> offtopic posts starting with #88 down through this one.. we can really get back on topic. No reason to wash just half your face.
> 
> What skin is it off your teeth if the posts remain?
> 
> Make life simple, just delete the whole thread.


The 'skin off my teeth' - is that I'd like to sustain something that myself and others have put a lot of effort and good information into, while others like to just destroy things - claiming indignation and their own false worth.


----------



## MountainGirl

1skrewsloose said:


> Deleting requested posts by the OP in any thread would set precedence, meaning the OP would decide what is and is not relevent to their thread. Is this the road we want to go down?
> 
> Don't even know if I've ever read any truly "clean" threads.


What's your problem?


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## 1skrewsloose

Whatever.


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## Back Pack Hack

If ya don't like the path this thread is headed down, simple solution: Stop reading it.


----------



## Chiefster23

Consider this. Deleting another person’s posts is a form of censorship.


----------



## MountainGirl

Chiefster23 said:


> Consider this. Deleting another person's posts is a form of censorship.


And hijacking threads is rude.

Look - I'm not going to fight with you guys since you helped me (and the forum) out with that creep.
Do what you want, trash it all you want.
Peace out.


----------



## Chiefster23

Looking for a little input from others having a solar system. How big is your array (watts) and vs the size of your battery bank (amp-hours)?


----------



## Back Pack Hack

MountainGirl said:


> And hijacking threads is rude.
> 
> Look - I'm not going to fight with you guys since you helped me (and the forum) out with that creep.
> Do what you want, trash it all you want.
> Peace out.


So I should be raising a big stink because 'my' 2A meme thread is currently hijacked with a long discussion about what year a rifle in a meme is?


----------



## hawgrider

A split thread like RubberDuck said would make everyone happy its no big deal if a mod knows what they are doing. 
No need for whiney in fighting. Geesh somebody needs to hit the bourbon and take a break from the www. Or not!


----------



## rstanek

It amazes me they when someone gets harassed here in my opinion it’s the job of the administrators to watch over this behavior and deal with it, and when it is dealt with an accusation of censorship comes up......for what it worth, the person being harassed is like a sister to us, that makes her family, and with administration deleting and giving the boot the perpetrator, well , go riddance, harassment is not protected under the 1st Amendment.....Some of these attitudes piss me off.....


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## Back Pack Hack

Compromise time. Take the 'off-topic' posts and move them to their own thread.

Yes, mods can do that.


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## hawgrider

Back Pack Hack said:


> Compromise time. Take the 'off-topic' posts and move them to their own thread.
> 
> Yes, mods can do that.


Isn't that what RubberDuck said and I just clarified 2 posts ago? Its called split thread.


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## Slippy

Me and my 6 other "associates" who have made up the "Slippy Brand" here-by and there-to-fore request that at least 18,000 posts of our bull-shat be deleted! (Or split up into multiple threads mostly entitled "Bashing" something or another..muslimes, douchebags, libtards, dumbasses, retards (see libtards) etc etc etc...)

:vs_lol:


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## Annie

If I could split the thread, I would. Sorry, but I don't see how to do that. I can merge, but I don't see any tools for splitting. If any of you know how and want to, go for it.
In the meanwhile in accordence with Cricket's instructions:



> Respect For Others In The Community
> In this community members are expected to treat each other with respect at all times.
> 
> There will always be disagreements and fusses between members. It is simply human nature.
> We truly encourage members to discuss and openly share their thoughts on a topic. It is how we all learn and life would be pretty boring if we all felt the same way.
> 
> That being said, this is not grade school. We don't gang up in little groups to take sides or encourage others to do the same.
> 
> If you were at a local get together and got into a disagreement with someone, I am guessing you would take it outside instead of ruining the party for everyone. We expect the same here.
> 
> If you are not able to discuss a topic respectfully then you need to remove yourself from the topic.
> 
> If you are unable to discuss a topic with a specific member then you need to choose to ignore that member or take the discussion off the boards.
> 
> If you are unable to do either of these things, we will help you to do so.


It's one thing to go a little off topic, have some fun or tell someone to knock it off. But this thread is over the top, because we're making a quilt out of @MaountainGirl's great thread. Why? Just stop.


----------



## A Watchman

Annie said:


> If I could split the thread, I would. Sorry, but I don't see how to do that. I can merge, but I don't see any tools for splitting. If any of you know how and want to, go for it.
> In the meanwhile in accordence with Cricket's instructions:
> 
> It's one thing to go a little off topic, have some fun or tell someone to knock it off. But this thread is over the top, because we're making a quilt out of @MaountainGirl's great thread. Why? Just stop.


Are you sure you just posted on the right forum? Asking for a friend. :vs_lol:


----------



## hawgrider

Annie said:


> If I could split the thread, I would. Sorry, but I don't see how to do that. I can merge, but I don't see any tools for splitting. If any of you know how and want to, go for it.
> In the meanwhile in accordence with Cricket's instructions:
> 
> It's one thing to go a little off topic, have some fun or tell someone to knock it off. But this thread is over the top, because we're making a quilt out of @MaountainGirl's great thread. Why? Just stop.


The terminology here may be called move posts. Every forum known to man can spit threads. You just need a mod who has the experience.


----------



## Denton

hawgrider said:


> The terminology here may be called move posts. Every forum known to man can spit threads. You just need a mod who has the experience.


Don't look at me.


----------



## A Watchman

Denton said:


> Don't look at me.


Honorable Leader, you would then have us look to Squatch in times like these? :vs_shocked:


----------



## hawgrider

Denton said:


> Don't look at me.


I'm not for hire Lmao! I already have one of these thankless payless jobs :vs_lol:


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Back Pack Hack said:


> I didn't even believe they were that sharp.... he just likes bragging about using 100,000,000,000,000,000-grit to _polish_ the edge.


Actually, they are.
Tourist sent me a Tops brand folder that he had spent some time on. It is seriously sharp. In fact, I'm reserving it from regular use and keeping it for self defense only. 
Yeah, I know, a good USA made field knife should be used, but dang, I will never be able to get that kind of edge again.

If you haven't heard of Tops, they are very high quality, made in the USA, and the main customer base are guys headed down range. They make fixed blades, and folders.
And, they ain't cheap!

The one I received has an MSRP of over $200. Lightweight aluminum frame, 1095 steel blade. www.topsknives.com/mil-spie-3-5-t-06 A serious knife for serious use. Check it out.

Yes, Tourist is eccentric, but ain't none of y'all got your shit 100% together. I know I don't. There was only one perfect person in the history of this world, and I don't think Jesus Christ is a member here.


----------



## Annie

rice paddy daddy said:


> Actually, they are.
> Tourist sent me a Tops brand folder that he had spent some time on. It is seriously sharp. In fact, I'm reserving it from regular use and keeping it for self defense only.
> Yeah, I know, a good USA made field knife should be used, but dang, I will never be able to get that kind of edge again.
> 
> If you haven't heard of Tops, they are very high quality, made in the USA, and the main customer base are guys headed down range. They make fixed blades, and folders.
> And, they ain't cheap!
> 
> The one I received has an MSRP of over $200. Lightweight aluminum frame, 1095 steel blade. www.topsknives.com/mil-spie-3-5-t-06 A serious knife for serious use. Check it out.
> 
> Yes, Tourist is eccentric, but ain't none of y'all got your shit 100% together. I know I don't. There was only one perfect person in the history of this world, and I don't think Jesus Christ is a member here.


Still looking to split the thread @MountainGirl.

I don't think The Tourist has ever been unkind to anyone here.


----------



## Denton

A Watchman said:


> Honorable Leader, you would then have us look to Squatch in times like these? :vs_shocked:


I'd rather lock the thread and let it meet its demise than call on the cryptozoological oddity and have him crash the site!


----------

