# economical guns



## gunnut69 (Nov 27, 2012)

i have a pretty good idea of solid guns for a good price but lets see if you folks can help me figure out some others


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

An acog scope alone cost more then $1000 dollars.


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## gunnut69 (Nov 27, 2012)

yeah i dont have any optics like that i have Bushnell tasco ect.... they preform good enough for my needs and they wont break the bank


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I believe the rifle that you get the best bang for your buck would be the sks.


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## jgriner (Nov 27, 2012)

Yeah but post-Obama ak are getting pricey, sks same round, just as dependable and about halve then price as an ak.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

jgriner said:


> Yeah but post-Obama ak are getting pricey, sks same round, just as dependable and about halve then price as an ak.


Read my post again above yours I picked the SKS over the AK, for the fallowing reasons, same round as the ak-47 the SKS was designed to be a semi-auto. stainless parts and chrome barrel and you can get the 10 shot clips very cheaply. I haven't compared the two but many say the SKS is more accurate. Too bad you can no longer buy them at $100 dollars each.


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## badey (Nov 9, 2012)

jgriner said:


> Yeah but post-Obama ak are getting pricey, sks same round, just as dependable and about halve then price as an ak.


They're all going up in price. I remember 8 years ago, a local gun store was selling SKSs for $125. Now it is hard to get them for under $300.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

I've never been one to worry about a budget for guns. I basically just buy what I need when I can afford to. I love guns and shooting but don't really have a lot of guns as I don't really have the need. I'm going to bugout if things are bad enough when shtf and I don't like the idea of leaving firearms behind. At all whether in a safe or in a closest. So that limits my personal needs seeing as I'm not married anymore and don't stock guns as handouts for friends and family. Most of my family is girls anyways and most can only use a pistol sadly enough to any usefulness of personal protection. I've tried to teach them, but we're pretty spread out in distance now also so if shtf really hard, I've acccepted that fact sadly that I'm going to have to write them off. If there's no communication and travel is difficult, the distance makes it so. This year I plan to buy another M1A/M14 feeling a little empty since selling my Scout and having only my fullsize left. Maybe another Adams piston AR setup, but that's not a definite since AR's are only so important to me. Maybe a Beretta 92FS compact if I find a good deal at the right time, but that's not a necessary either as I CCW a fullsize just fine at my size of 6'4" 250lb. For thread sake though, that would be a budget of over $1000. Especially with parts and ammunition thrown in. Probably over $5000 atleast if I buy them all.


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## punch (Nov 6, 2012)

badey said:


> They're all going up in price. I remember 8 years ago, a local gun store was selling SKSs for $125. Now it is hard to get them for under $300.


Back in the day when most everyone turned their nose up at these rifles you could pick them up at Woolworths for $70.00 they kept them in a wooden barrel and we just picked the ones that were the least boogered up. I thought I was just cheap, turns out I was a little smart too.

punch


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

punch said:


> Back in the day when most everyone turned their nose up at these rifles you could pick them up at Woolworths for $70.00 they kept them in a wooden barrel and we just picked the ones that were the least boogered up. I thought I was just cheap, turns out I was a little smart too.
> 
> punch


Yup. I almost bought a few cases of them for 79 bucks a rifle. I changed my mind, I couldn't figure out why anyone would want those tacky little rifles.
Oops.

My son has one. I have a MAC-90 (Clintonized AK). I would never even think of trading my rifle for one of those SKSs.


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## Liberty1963 (Nov 27, 2012)

I picked up a nice one plus 400 rounds of ammo for it for $400,plus original 10 rd magazine as well as a couple of 30 rd magazines.


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## jgriner (Nov 27, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Read my post again above yours I picked the SKS over the AK, for the fallowing reasons, same round as the ak-47 the SKS was designed to be a semi-auto. stainless parts and chrome barrel and you can get the 10 shot clips very cheaply. I haven't compared the two but many say the SKS is more accurate. Too bad you can no longer buy them at $100 dollars each.


Sorry I seem to remember someone talking about the ak must have been from another post. 
Don't get me wrong I love the ak, I own a ak would not give it up for anything, but the subject of cheap guns sks is about as cheap as you can get, and it's nearly the same as the ak

I've never heard anyone compare the accuracy of the SKS vs ak, I think if you're talking about accuracy your barking up the wrong tree with the 7.62 x 39 platform, I've always considered that laying down some lead round not trying to snipe with.

My 2 cents


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Jgriner
Most people don't understand the meaning of accuracy. If I shot at a target at 100 yards with my SKS an my M1A Supermatch and the Supermatch put 10 rnds in a 1 in circle 3 inches below the bullseye and then shot the SKS An every shot was placed evenly around the bullseye but none closer than 10 inches from the bullseye then the SKS would be more accurate.


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## jgriner (Nov 27, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Jgriner
> Most people don't understand the meaning of accuracy. If I shot at a target at 100 yards with my SKS an my M1A Supermatch and the Supermatch put 10 rnds in a 1 in circle 3 inches below the bullseye and then shot the SKS An every shot was placed evenly around the bullseye but none closer than 10 inches from the bullseye then the SKS would be more accurate.


Guess I don't understand stand accuracy either cause I would say your supermatch is accurate just needs to be zeroed in.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Yes the Supermatch just needed to be dialed in and the Supermatch was very precise so its precision was very good but every shot was 3 inches off. Where as the SKS the overall accuracy was good (the average of all 10 shots would equal out) but its precision was terrible. So what people really want is a precision rifle over an accurate rifle.


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## TLock762x51 (Nov 14, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> Jgriner
> Most people don't understand the meaning of accuracy. If I shot at a target at 100 yards with my SKS an my M1A Supermatch and the Supermatch put 10 rnds in a 1 in circle 3 inches below the bullseye and then shot the SKS An every shot was placed evenly around the bullseye but none closer than 10 inches from the bullseye then the SKS would be more accurate.


 IMO, you're way off base here. The M1A is obviously more accurate. Your assertion that shot placement translates into accuracy is incorrect.

First of all, you claim that the M1A placed its rounds 3 inches below the POA (Point Of Aim), and the SKS placed none of its rounds closer than 10 inches from the POA. I don't see how rounds striking 10 inches from POA is supposedly more accurate than rounds striking 3 inches from POA.

Let's look at a different scenario. Let's say your theoretical M1A placed all of its rounds 4 inches above the POA at 100 yards, in a 1 inch circle, for a 1 MOA (Minute Of Angle) group. Now let's say your theoretical SKS placed all of its rounds right at the POA at 100 yards in a 4 inch circle, for a 4 MOA group. I say the M1A is more accurate than the SKS, apparently you believe that the SKS is more accurate. Now let's move the target out to 200 yards. Now the M1A places its shots right at the POA in a 2 inch group, but the SKS places its rounds in a 8 inch group, but the rounds are striking 7 inches below the POA. Now which is more accurate? By your reckoning, I'm guessing you now believe the M1A is more accurate. So, the rifles have changed positions in terms of which is more accurate?

You're mistaking accuracy, or lack thereof, for zeroing. I mean, if I buy a new gun, and shoot it at 25 yards, and it prints a 1 inch group, but the rounds are 2 inches left and 3 inches low, do I return it to the factory because it's not accurate? No, I just adjust the sights.

I understand that, if the weapon is not properly sighted in, its accuracy is not particularly useful, if you can't strike the target with it. But you can't fault a firearm if the user hasn't zeroed it properly.

Tim


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

TLock762x51 said:


> IMO, you're way off base here. The M1A is obviously more accurate. Your assertion that shot placement translates into accuracy is incorrect.
> 
> First of all, you claim that the M1A placed its rounds 3 inches below the POA (Point Of Aim), and the SKS placed none of its rounds closer than 10 inches from the POA. I don't see how rounds striking 10 inches from POA is supposedly more accurate than rounds striking 3 inches from POA.
> 
> ...


You are getting Precision and accuracy mixed up. The Supermatch may have a 1 MOA and The SKS may have 10 MOA, but MOA is a measurement of Precision, Accuracy takes in the average of the shot placement, if 4 shots for the SKS are 1st 5 in high 2nd 5 in low 3rd 5 in right 4th 5 in left the average would be a bulls-eye with a precision of 10 MOA Maybe this helps.
http://www.velaction.com/difference-between-precision-and-accuracy/


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## Alaska (Nov 28, 2012)

gunnut69 said:


> i have a pretty good idea of solid guns for a good price but lets see if you folks can help me figure out some others


Guess I dont quite understand what your asking?

Cheap guns is way to open
pistols? rifles? carbines?

and what do you want to accomplish?
They all have their pros and cons.

break down ruger 10/22 = 300 bucks ease of use, fits in a bag. cheap ammo. can provide food, great starter gun for introducing kids & new shooters

mosin nagant = 100 or so bucks. rugged. can take big game and at distance at that.

highpoint carbine = 300 or so bucks 9mm,.40, .45. cheap and goes bang everytime,compatability of ammo w/ EDC weapon.can "mall ninja it with all the crap you desire as it has rails all over it so ugly probably wont ,get stolen lol

mossberg 500. 500 bucks goes bang everytime, kills any & everything, lots of ammo choices, can take any kind of game you want especially if you get a bird barrel with it. its basically the glock of the shot gun world.


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## shadownmss (Nov 13, 2012)

As far as an inexpensive hand gun I prefer Ruger. I have a P95, SR9C, MarkIII 22/45 and a Single Action Blackhawk revolver in .357 Now as far as a rifle you cant go wrong with an old Mosin Nagant (7.62 x 54) $125.00 all day long at the local gun store and a tin of 440 round surplus ammo for about $85.00


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## cannon (Nov 11, 2012)

SKS-AK or third choice...

Saiga at +/- $370 is built on the military AK line but is semi only and comes with standard rifle stock. Low cost, reliable and doesn't scare the nannies by looking like an evil assault rifle.


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## TLock762x51 (Nov 14, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> You are getting Precision and accuracy mixed up. The Supermatch may have a 1 MOA and The SKS may have 10 MOA, but MOA is a measurement of Precision, Accuracy takes in the average of the shot placement, if 4 shots for the SKS are 1st 5 in high 2nd 5 in low 3rd 5 in right 4th 5 in left the average would be a bulls-eye with a precision of 10 MOA Maybe this helps.
> Difference Between Precision and Accuracy


 I guess I'll try this one more time.

I understand your notion of the difference between accuracy and precision. However, the difference has nothing to do with the firearm. In your example, the only reason the M1A isn't _*precise*_ (by your definition) is because the operator has not properly zeroed the firearm for that specific distance. Once the operator correctly adjusts the sights, the M1A is obviously much more "precise." Has the firearm changed? No, the sights have simply been adjusted. For a firearm to ever be fired with "precision", the operator must certainly be aware of the range at which the firearm was zeroed, and when firing at any range other than that, the operator must compensate for that (either by adjusting the sights, or by employing the proper amount of "hold-over".)

To quote from the article you referenced:_ "So, in practice, the difference between precision and accuracy is irrelevant. You need both for a process to be effective. A widely spread shot group that is 'accurate' is just as useless as a 'precise' process that is well off the mark."_

So, a firearm that produces a "precise" grouping can be adjusted to also produce an "accurate" grouping...but a firearm that is only capable of an "imprecise" grouping, cannot be improved upon. In your example, the M1A can be zeroed to the proper distance, and will then be more "precise", while the SKS can never be made to be "precise", it simply lacks the ability to deliver tight groups.

Again...to quote from the article which you referenced:"*...the difference between precision and accuracy is irrelevant*." Your notion that we must distinguish between accuracy and precision is, as your article states, "irrelevant." Either the firearm is accurate, or it isn't...its "precision" is completely dependent upon the shooter.

So, with that...I'm done with this discussion of accuracy vs. precision. Either people "get" it, or they don't. At this point, no amount of additional explanation is warranted. I'm sorry that this has gone so far off topic. So, I'll quickly address the OP's original concern.

As others have mentioned, the question can't really be answered without having some additional information. What purpose are you envisioning for these firearms? What is your budget?

For ultra-inexpensive rifles, the Mosin Nagant in 7.62x54 can actually be found for as little for $80. While ammo prices have gone up, it's still relatively affordable, and it's quite powerful. For a quiet, small game-getter, there are plenty of inexpensive .22 rifles out there...used .22 bolt rifles and tube-fed semi-autos can be found for anywhere from $75 to around $150. For a bit more, the Ruger 10/22 is a fine choice in a semi-auto. Ammo for .22s is dirt cheap. If you need a center fire semi-auto, you're pretty much talking about an SKS. Not to be confused by the previous discussion...the SKS is actually quite accurate out to 300-350 yards.

Inexpensive handguns would be Makarovs/CZ82s/P64s/PA-63s in 9x18mm Makarov, or used police trade-in Rugers/S&Ws/Glocks/etc. in 9mm or possibly .40S&W. Another decent choice is used and/or police trade-in revolvers in .38/.357, usually S&W & Rugers.

In order to give any better answers, more information would be needed.

Tim


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

As many guns as I own, its hard for me to justify yet another one when about half of the ones I have now havent been shot in a year or two. So I am for all intents and purposes down to under a 1000 a year on guns and looking for very specific things most of which would not be likely to be found in most folks collection.


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## mvan70us (Nov 24, 2012)

Im gonna say shotguns will give you a lot of bang for the buck....my son just bought a remington 870 express magnum that will shoot a 3 1/2 inch shell for 300...very impressive gun indeed. Any shotgun would make a good all around gun IMO.


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## gunnut69 (Nov 27, 2012)

cool well thx everyone for the info i found that you can get 100 federal 223 rounds at walmart for 34$ and 100 9mm 45 or 40 rounds for 34$ fmjs of course, in winchestor also at walmart
i think im going to go with another ar 15!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> An acog scope alone cost more then $1000 dollars.


 Well it was more like 1300 .
Nothing wrong with having a few weapons that are good in close and pack some knock down , firing cheap ammo. Budget AK,SKS have a place 
You still need some quality. Most good AR will shoot 2 MOA out of the box with military rounds, good to go.
Many of you better AR's will shoot 1 MOA not a big difference to some but better
Really good ones will shoot sub MOA with match rounds that is good if you need to impress the guy next door or shoot bubba at 700 meters with an AR. But your going to need to work on that it aint going to do it by it's self.
Shot Gun in the house and yard to acquire food
AK SKS in the yard and short range food
AR in the yard end of long drive away and down the street
M24,M14 , Rem 700 ect When you look out there and the Bg is the size of a postage stamp and that Deer that is just to smart to come close.
Cover your must haves first build up and then shock up rounds for them all


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## Bluegill (Dec 2, 2012)

Marlin model 60 is always good for small game


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## fedorthedog (Feb 28, 2012)

At 79.00 dollars I figured everyone should have one and took a lot of my friends along, happy i did now.


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