# Airport "security"?



## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Okay I was talking to one of the paramedics at my station today and we talked about airport security. He was saying how it's and infringement on everyone's civil liberties. He was saying how you shouldn't have to do some of the things you do like; random searches, body scan, x-ray your packs, and more. If this is an infringement on everyone's civil liberties then why is it legal, and why doesn't someone try and change it? ':/


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

What's airport security? Isn't that what you call an oxymoron?

Army Iraq War Verteran/Soldier beaten at McCarran&#8230;: 




Thats old but its what goes on in their little brains.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

They claim that it is because you don't "have" to fly. It is optional, therefore, if you choose to fly, you must also choose to accept the searches. It's the same argument made about DUI checkpoints.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

If by airport security you mean the TSA? I believe that they violate my 4th Amendment Rights every time I attempt to travel freely by air within the US.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I enjoy hearing about the people who somehow find themselves on the "no fly" list, and can never find out why, so they can't off! I'd love to find out how that is justified.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

We fly a lot and I am damn glad they do the searches they do, infringe on my rights or not. At least I can be pretty sure there is not a nut case on my flight.


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## hotpig27 (Dec 24, 2013)

Actually the TSA track record has been dismal. I have been lucky enough that most of my flights are from smaller places and the Mall Security Guards, sorry TSA agents try hard to keep things moving. Even Lambert St Louis is not bad,Ft Meyers is good. I also use regionals like Abraham Lincoln in Springfield IL to Charlotte County in Punta Gorda FL.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

I wouldnt fly if they didnt have such tight security. if you have nothing to hide why is it a problem?


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

nightshade said:


> I wouldnt fly if they didnt have such tight security. if you have nothing to hide why is it a problem?


See that's what I said, but what happens when some guy gets past the security and trys something. Then they try adding more security, and what would that be? Full body checks, emptying your bag all together, not aloud to have carry on bags? "he who gives an ounce of liberty for and ounce of security deserves neither and will get neither."


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

nightshade said:


> I wouldnt fly if they didnt have such tight security. if you have nothing to hide why is it a problem?


LISTEN UP PEOPLE!
That's why we are screwed!


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Slippy said:


> LISTEN UP PEOPLE!
> That's why we are screwed!


Yup but just think my generation in much worst.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

I do many kinds of searches on prison inmates. I expect people outside of prison to have more freedom.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

firefighter72 said:


> Yup but just think my generation in much worst.


Yes, your generation is much worse.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

Slippy said:


> LISTEN UP PEOPLE!
> That's why we are screwed!


Bingo, we have a winner!!

Here is the thing. I can go thru all the checkpoints you want. Then buy myself a few bottles of whiskey at the "duty free" and can have a molotov cocktail or 3 on the plane. So really, the checkpoints are pointless.... It is all for people to FEEL safe... You can bet your sweet ass if someone wants to do bad shit on a plane, they will!!


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Yes, your generation is much worse.


Please be aware that I am NOT like the majority of my generation.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I'll write a response to this tonight. I did not get to my hotel last night until way late yesterday (because of the ridiculous TSA/Airlines/Rental Car mutants).


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

hotpig27 said:


> Actually the TSA track record has been dismal. I have been lucky enough that most of my flights are from smaller places and the Mall Security Guards, sorry TSA agents try hard to keep things moving. Even Lambert St Louis is not bad,Ft Meyers is good. I also use regionals like Abraham Lincoln in Springfield IL to Charlotte County in Punta Gorda FL.


Correction, It is Ft. Myers, this is where we fly out of.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

firefighter72 said:


> Please be aware that I am NOT like the majority of my generation.


So far, I am aware. To quote one of our future leaders, "Now go out and punch a hippy in the face".


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

nightshade said:


> I wouldnt fly if they didnt have such tight security. if you have nothing to hide why is it a problem?


I can fully understand, anyone getting on a plane wanting to feel as safe as possible, but "if you have nothing to hide why is it a problem"? Really, is that your logic? Does the same hold true for random no warrant house searches? I mean after all, if you have nothing to hide....? How about the LEO stopping people on the street for no reason and searching them? is that ok too?
I don't mean to rag on you, but "if you have nothing to hide" pops up a red flag for me, like big brother is just around the corner, and people are so scared, they will pay any price, or give up any freedom to feel the government is keeping them safe and warm. How far behind is "Show me your papers!"?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

I meant that statement strictly for airports. Obviously there are boundaries that can not be crossed. I believe currently our security measures in airports are reasonable given the worlds situation. think back to 2011..would you have gotten on a plane a week after this event with no security? compare our differing logic once again. in my opinion they can not go any further than they have without infringing on our rights. This discussion is about airport security nothing else. I should have elaborated but i was short in my response that day.


I see this site as more politics than survival talk...peace


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## Eagles700LvL (Apr 10, 2014)

The TSA at Philly International is terrible. I've always wondered why we put the burden of extra security on the millions when it would seem improving airplanes would be the logical answer.

Maybe I'm being too simple and I know that there are thousands of scenarios, but IMO if you made the cockpit unbreachable from either side you would deter 99% of what you are trying to accomplish with TSA.

I was on a flight from Philly to Tampa and got the opportunity to sit in first class each way. During both flights the pilots took a restroom break. It was easy to determine the process. Flight attendant picked up phone. Flight attendant blocked the first class bathroom/cockpit door foyer with refreshment cart. Pilot opens cockpit, exits, closes door. Pilots switch places. Second pilot reenters cockpit.

Cockpit door opened 3 times. Barrier to cockpit was a refreshment cart, middle aged flight attendant and restroom using pilot. Regardless of how good the TSA did that day if someone with hand to hand combat training wanted into the cockpit, they could probably get in.

If you gave the cockpit a toilet and a minifridge there would seem to be no reason to exit the cockpit while the plane is in motion. Put a bank safe door there and you are done. 

Would probably cost the airline a row of seats plus the one time rehab cost. Personally I'd pay an extra $20 a flight to not have to deal with TSA.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

nightshade said:


> I meant that statement strictly for airports. Obviously there are boundaries that can not be crossed. I believe currently our security measures in airports are reasonable given the worlds situation. think back to 2011..would you have gotten on a plane a week after this event with no security? compare our differing logic once again. in my opinion they can not go any further than they have without infringing on our rights. This discussion is about airport security nothing else. I should have elaborated but i was short in my response that day.
> 
> I see this site as more politics than survival talk...peace


nightshade,
I have to call you out on that one. Have you researched some of the excellent threads on this forum? There is a plethora of information from gear, to guns, to food prep, to camping, to cars/trucks, not to mention religion, farming, animals, immigration (illegal ), hand to hand combat/self defense, ****/******/straights...and yes POLITICS and more.

As far as I'm concerned (and it appears others from the volume of thread participation might agree with me) that politics may be a huge contributing factor to our desire to be more prepared. If I'm wrong, tell me...peace through strength!


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I have been traveling by air about 40 weeks per year since well before 9/11. I can say without a doubt that the TSA not only does not keep you safer, they actually make you MORE vulnerable.

Firstly, the people they hire are utter incompetents. At least 6 times I have forgotten that I had a pocketknife in my briefcase. Never once did they even notice it, much less question me about it. Just yesterday, I was flying from MSP to Harrisburg, PA. In the Minneapolis airport, I was randomly selected for an ammonium-nitrate screening. The test is quick enough; they wipe down your palms with a cotton pad and put the pad into a machine to detect explosive residue. Yesterday, mine came back positive for explosives. When they asked me about it, I told them that I had used some of the hand lotion given out by hotels. That satisfied their curiosity. I am POSITIVE they would accept the same answer from a Mohammed with no additional screening. (Note: The hand lotion that hotels give out does indeed set off the explosive detectors.) If I know that, do you think the Mohammeds do not?

Second, in most major airports, the only folks that are armed are the airport police that usually position themselves well BEHIND the TSA screeners. Since the TSA monkeys are such retards there is usually a pretty long line of passengers waiting to be screened. If a Mohammed wanted to cause death and destruction, they do not need to get PAST security to do it. They would be much more effective standing outside of security with their suicide vest or even just a rifle. (That is what happened at LAX a couple years ago.) Having a hundred passengers standing around waiting like cattle going to slaughter, knowing they are fully disarmed has to look pretty tempting to your average Muslim shit-bag.

Thirdly, most of the TSA employees are shit-bags themselves. A good many of them are even Muslims themselves. (The fox guarding the henhouse anyone?) I have had them ask me for bribes. I have had them steal money from me. Most of them are too damn stupid to be dangerous, but they sure are a pain in the neck for no good reason.

I can understand why politicians authorized them in the beginning because it was a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11. But in the several years since, with all of the corruption and incompetence that has been widely shown, any politician that re-authorizes them should be thrown into a wood chipper on national TV, to quote my friend Beach Kowboy.


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## hotpig27 (Dec 24, 2013)

I think a lot of people have forgot what the TSA does. They are there to give people a "feeling" of safety. People had to have the perception that flying was safe after 9-11 or the country would have been in trouble. For real airline safety we are dependent upon random armed Air Marshalls, random armed Pilots, Secured cockpit doors and increased awareness by employees and passengers.

When profiling is allowed then you will know we are actually getting serious about safety.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

This past Christmas Eve, they made my fiance throw out here bottled water and didn't say anything about the several .45 rounds she forgot in her jacket pocket.. Don't let the water through though, it's dangerous.. No they just want to make money selling stuff at the airport to help pay for the TSA. It is a viscous circle!


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

hotpig27 said:


> I think a lot of people have forgot what the TSA does. They are there to give people a "feeling" of safety. People had to have the perception that flying was safe after 9-11 or the country would have been in trouble. For real airline safety we are dependent upon random armed Air Marshalls, random armed Pilots, Secured cockpit doors and increased awareness by employees and passengers.
> 
> When profiling is allowed then you will know we are actually getting serious about safety.


I am all for profiling!! Every one of the assholes from 9-11 were of the exact same description. Granted, I'm sure there are all other kinds but the ones that have no problem blowing themselves up, are pretty much the same.. It's not usually a 70 yr old white grandmother with a cane or an 8yr old kid with a baseball cap.. OR even a 30yr old attractive woman with a 36c cup size!! TSA really likes checking them though..lol


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Beach Kowboy said:


> This past Christmas Eve, they made my fiance throw out here bottled water and didn't say anything about the several .45 rounds she forgot in her jacket pocket.. Don't let the water through though, it's dangerous.. No they just want to make money selling stuff at the airport to help pay for the TSA. It is a viscous circle!


In the Denver airport, they actually have "amnesty boxes" where you can dispose of your pot. Gee, I wonder what happens with that?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I'd like to know how the 16 year old kid got past airport security, got into the nose wheel well of an aircraft. That he lived thru the flight to Hawaii is amazing, but how did he not get caught. Really instills confidence in the TSA and airport security and the people working the ramp.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Anal cavity searches for EVERYONE. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. DROP EM!!!


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Anal cavity searches for EVERYONE. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. DROP EM!!!


That's part of Obummer's new ObummerCare. Nothing like a *free colonoscopy*!

On a serious note, it just struck me that if our airport security is so lacking, that kid could have just as well placed a small device with a pressure sensing device to detonate a small device at altitude. This isn't the first airport incursion by unauthorized idiots. A couple of years ago at the big Oshkosh airshow, an idiot had climbed the fence on the north side, and was crossing the runway, right in front of a large group of old warbirds taking off for the airshow. The one warbird was able to pull up before striking the idiot and of course reported it to our people who drove out and grabbed him. The notion that this country is secure is nonsense. If any idiot can get thru our security measures, it scares the crap out of to wonder what's been coming thru our southern border beside drugs.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

In fact the TSA has never once stopped a terrorist from boarding a plane. They are there to make people feel safe and erode our fourth amendment rights.
I don't fly at all unless it is on a private plane where guns are allowed. And yes, I do occasionally fly - I feel a lot safer flying with my 357 magnum then I do with a plane full of sheep - with or without a trained "air marshall". 

Profiling is not required - Israel does not use profiling - they talk to people and those who are reactive in a certain way are questioned further. They have kept many terrorists from getting on their planes.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Why can't we take a lesson from the Israeli's. Would be a lot cheaper, and a lot safer. But isn't that process of talking with people profiling. I don't mean racial or ethnic profiling, I mean terrorist profiling!


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Funny this comes up, I purchased 2 new toys a weekend ago, and I paid extra, becouse the seller was able to deliver. He asked me, if I could meet at the airport, I said, sure, but to get there, you have to drive right by my work, he explained he was FLYING in.
I met him, at the "fuel sale area", right on the other side of the runway fence, and he walks out with two cased Taurus's wich are now mine.
Sits in the truck, counts his money, goes back into the fence and flys off.
I guess private pilots and private planes have way different rules than commercial.
And, yes, I have a new friend that has a PLANE.


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## SF340_Driver (Aug 2, 2013)

sparkyprep said:


> They claim that it is because you don't "have" to fly. It is optional, therefore, if you choose to fly, you must also choose to accept the searches. It's the same argument made about DUI checkpoints.


If I recall correctly, airport security was challenged re: 4th amendment back in the '70s. It was found constitutional due to the fact that the security searches were not being conducted by the government. I am surprised it hasn't been challenged post TSA...


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## Casie (Feb 26, 2014)

Screw the TSA. I don't fly anymore.

I used to fly Shreveport to Raleigh-Durham every year (sometimes twice a year). Now I drive. The last time I went through security, it was such a freaking joke. Can TSA agents be any more nasty and ignorant? I don't think so! 

I had my long hair twisted up and held in a large metal and wood barrette. It set the retardo-metal detector/ex-ray thing off. The woman said, "Do you have something in your hair?!" I thought, "No. It grows like this naturally, you idiot." But I didn't say that. Instead I popped the clip on the barrette with a quick smooth motion and held it out for her to inspect. 

Did she look at it and let me continue on? Nope. Do you know what that fat psycho woman did? She started screaming at me! "Don't touch it! Don't touch it! You're not suppose to remove any items from your person!"

I said, "You want me to put it back?" 

She shouted, "No! Don't move!"

I stood there holding the barrette while she called for other idiot agents, who brought that hand held metal detector to "wand" me. They "wanded" the hell out of the barrette. Then they asked me to place it in a tray. I got the long version of the molestation pat down: around my bra, down the front of my jeans, all along my thighs and butt. pat,pat,pat,pat,rub,pat,pat,pat,pat

I only made two comments. I said, "You guy's have never seen a hair clip before?" and then later as I was leaving I said, "This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. It was just a freaking barrette." Other than that I was pretty darn polite, yet I still got treated like crap.

If I saw a TSA agent injured on the side of the road, I'd slow down just enough to flip them the bird.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

My wife and I have flown out of O'hare in Chicago most of our lives. The last time we flew out, my wife was carrying her CPAP machine and like always turned it over to TSA for the Medical Equipment Inspection. These highly trained (i'm being sarcastic) TSA inspectors who are supposed to know what they are looking at spotted the small metal plate on the bottom of the clear plastic water tank. They too went bazerk. The woman took the whole kit and cabooddle back for x-ray, and spent a good 5 minutes holding up everyone in the line and of course us, while she and the other person examined the x-ray picture before coming back. Finally she comes back, "I can't allow this to be taken on board because of the modifications you've made, it could be dangerous." After suppressing the urge to call her an ignorant bitch ( I already had my colonoscopy 2 months earlier on another flight) I calmly explained that no modification had been made, everything was factory original. She walked off with the tank and offending metal heating pad to humidify the air going to the person. After waiting another 10 minutes and about 15 people standing behind us another woman comes up and starts checking the equipment of the people in line. After 20 more minutes, the new woman asks what we are waiting for. We explain and she rolls her eyes and picks up a phone. The first woman comes back, talks with the new woman and then says, "Well we'll let it go thru this time." The new woman standing behind her just about laughed out loud at her remark. We made the flight with 10 minutes to spare.


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## Casie (Feb 26, 2014)

Paraquack, you made the best point ever!

TSA vermin are NOT qualified to examine our bodies or any medical equipment. You want to feel my breasts? Let me see your qualifications! You better be a freaking DOCTOR.

You want to touch someone's very expensive insulin doser or artificial leg or CPAP machine? You better be a freaking DOCTOR!

The TSA is a bunch of high school drop outs, mall cops and meter maid failures, pedophiles, perverts and thieves.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Casie said:


> Screw the TSA. I don't fly anymore.
> 
> I used to fly Shreveport to Raleigh-Durham every year (sometimes twice a year). Now I drive. The last time I went through security, it was such a freaking joke. Can TSA agents be any more nasty and ignorant? I don't think so!
> 
> ...


Damn Casie,

That was YOU? Small World...advise to the youngsters...behave when you're out of town.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Casie said:


> The TSA is a bunch of high school drop outs, mall cops and meter maid failures, pedophiles, perverts and thieves.


I think they recruit the those scary guys that hang out all day breathing heavily near the public restrooms at the shopping mall.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Casie said:


> Paraquack, you made the best point ever!
> 
> TSA vermin are NOT qualified to examine our bodies or any medical equipment. You want to feel my breasts? Let me see your qualifications! You better be a freaking DOCTOR.
> 
> ...


More advise for the kiddies...if you wanna feel some breasts, stay in school and get your M.D.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Slippy said:


> More advise for the kiddies...if you wanna feel some breasts, stay in school and get your M.D.


They seem to be really cracking down on the teachers that are doing that now...


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## ordnance21xx (Jan 29, 2014)

My wife and I just boarded an plane and came home yesterday. Security both at San Diego and Columbia, SC was no problem in and out. it was great. We had a great time. plane time was 1:10 pm afternoon.


MOLON LABE


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

ordnance21xx said:


> My wife and I just boarded an plane and came home yesterday. Security both at San Diego and Columbia, SC was no problem in and out. it was great. We had a great time. plane time was 1:10 pm afternoon.
> 
> MOLON LABE


Thanks


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Slippy said:


> More advise for the kiddies...if you wanna feel some breasts, stay in school and get your M.D.


Unfortunately you also have to examine the 80 year old breasts that the husband has to hold up so she can fasten her belt as well.


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