# 3 Things to avoid poverty



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I was recently attending a SAFE FAMILIES class (it is church program that provides short term -usually less then 3 months - housing for children of families in crisis ) - like a mother that has to attend a program or is going in rehab or surgery or even short jail terms

Any way one of the instructors said that people in poverty tend to stay in poverty for 20 years....

during break, I approached him and ask him "Do you know why MOST of them stay in poverty 20 years?" he said he did not know (which surprised me)

I explained there are three things you can do that when done will almost guarantee you will not end up in poverty.... 
1. Finish high school 
2. Get a job 
3. Do not have children until you are married

I also pointed out that not finishing high school means you have to start at the BOTTOM of the work food chain and work your way up..this takes many years

having kids before you are married will effect you for 20 years


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Popping out little munchkins isn't a good idea until you're financially stable. Married or not. But I agree with your post. 


It used to be kids grew up, got married and had kids. They do the same thing these days, but not in that order.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Good post OP. I would add that from my work with homeless veterans and past work with families with children, that drug and alcohol abuse is also a very common factor that gets folks into poverty and keeps them there.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> I was recently attending a SAFE FAMILIES class (it is church program that provides short term -usually less then 3 months - housing for children of families in crisis ) - like a mother that has to attend a program or is going in rehab or surgery or even short jail terms
> 
> Any way one of the instructors said that people in poverty tend to stay in poverty for 20 years....
> 
> ...


Excellent post MM
Most welfare rats do not get this.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

It saddens me there are people who’d laughingly Call this racist or mock it as conservative old fashioned ways. It’s great advise but I’ll take it one step further, and that is question do you really need to reproduce ? For some yes, my choice was not too, and I grew up with 31 nephews and nieces it wasn’t needed. Being the rich uncle is kind of cool.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> I was recently attending a SAFE FAMILIES class (it is church program that provides short term -usually less then 3 months - housing for children of families in crisis ) - like a mother that has to attend a program or is going in rehab or surgery or even short jail terms
> 
> Any way one of the instructors said that people in poverty tend to stay in poverty for 20 years....
> 
> ...


This is good advice. I followed it myself, but adjusted it upward:
1) Finish High school, and go right into a high paying trade school, or get a college degree with massive income potential... no synchronized poetry / swimming degrees.
2) While getting the very best grades possible, network and intern so as to segue into your field seamlessly... PLAN!
3) Don't have kids until you are SUCCESSFUL, not just married. Around the turn of the century, men used to wait until their 30's to get married... after they had started a business and established themselves. I got married and had my son when I had a great job, money in the bank, and my third rental duplex already purchased. I had added two more properties before my daughter was born.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

I have a daughter who finished HS, couldnt make it in college, and had a baby at 27. She chooses not to marry him, due to snap/wic etc etc benefits. He chooses to not get a second job to better the situation. He does have a decent job, but its not going anywhere.
Getting out of poverty requires hard work and sacrifice to your lifestyle. Its a choice, a victims choice.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

StratMaster said:


> This is good advice. I followed it myself, but adjusted it upward:
> 1) Finish High school, and go right into a high paying trade school, or get a college degree with massive income potential... no / swimming degrees.
> 2) While getting the very best grades possible, network and intern so as to segue into your field seamlessly... PLAN!
> 3) Don't have kids until you are SUCCESSFUL, not just married. Around the turn of the century, men used to wait until their 30's to get married... after they had started a business and established themselves. I got married and had my son when I had a great job, money in the bank, and my third rental duplex already purchased. I had added two more properties before my daughter was born.


So, I went to college for 6 years and your telling me only now, that my synchronized poetry degree is no good! Damn! :vs_lol:


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Steve40th said:


> I have a daughter who finished HS, couldnt make it in college, and had a baby at 27. She chooses not to marry him, due to snap/wic etc etc benefits. He chooses to not get a second job to better the situation. He does have a decent job, but its not going anywhere.
> Getting out of poverty requires hard work and sacrifice to your lifestyle. Its a choice, a victims choice.


It's not always as simple as a choice. Not everyone is good at school/collage for various reasons in the same ways not everyone is good at math, fixing cars, brain surgery.

If you don't have the mind of a surgeon or an accountant, looks like you might be a mechanic, it's a good job, but doesn't pay as much.

I came from poverty, I wasn't particularly good at school. I worked my butt off to make a decent living as a carpenter, and I'm a very good carpenter and I love what I do. The cost of living here has climbed much much faster than the pay scale for a construction superintendent. As a lead carpenter years ago I was comfortably lower middle income, now with my notably increased pay I'm not to far above the poverty level for where I live. Moving out of the area is not really a good choice because traffic here is so bad that going from my 30-45min commute to a 1.5-3hr commute will send my fuel expensive thru the roof, thus tanking any housing savings gained by moving well out of town.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Best chance is to stay away from the government. The biggest downfall to man on earth.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Once they get out of poverty..and want to become a millionaire..dont be getting any divorces...and dont be buying a bunch of fancy cars..hourses or man toys. That is from the book the Milliionare next door. Might also apply to ladies some way or another. They prob should not buy a bunch of high dollar girl toys etc.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

bigwheel said:


> Once they get out of poverty..and want to become a millionaire..dont be getting any divorces...and dont be buying a bunch of fancy cars..hourses or man toys. That is from the book the Milliionare next door. Might also apply to ladies some way or another. They prob should not buy a bunch of high dollar girl toys etc.


Yes ^^^
And lay off the hookers and cocaine.lain:


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Slippy said:


> Yes ^^^
> And lay off the hookers and cocaine.lain:


You mean they don't come with your millionaires club card, that's a rip off lain:


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## Lowtechredneck (May 7, 2018)

If you measure poverty only in the context of material wealth it might all be true. A man can be rich while having very little however.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> It's not always as simple as a choice. Not everyone is good at school/collage for various reasons in the same ways not everyone is good at math, fixing cars, brain surgery.
> 
> If you don't have the mind of a surgeon or an accountant, looks like you might be a mechanic, it's a good job, but doesn't pay as much.
> 
> I came from poverty, I wasn't particularly good at school. I worked my butt off to make a decent living as a carpenter, and I'm a very good carpenter and I love what I do. The cost of living here has climbed much much faster than the pay scale for a construction superintendent. As a lead carpenter years ago I was comfortably lower middle income, now with my notably increased pay I'm not to far above the poverty level for where I live. Moving out of the area is not really a good choice because traffic here is so bad that going from my 30-45min commute to a 1.5-3hr commute will send my fuel expensive thru the roof, thus tanking any housing savings gained by moving well out of town.


Gee, I was gifted, straight As math and science, highest honors high school . Then no money for school. But I loved my other skills. I could fix most any thing: cars, trucks, chainsaws..... Don't let that fool you. Working with your hands is a good thing. I've done it, still do. I did all those jobs to finish school.

I did school , got a pH D Science, taught college . Was not easy on the way.

But those other "jobs" , I like better, done well for myself by myself.

Don't give up your dreams.


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## Lunatic Wrench (May 13, 2018)

Mad Trapper said:


> Gee, I was gifted, straight As math and science, highest honors high school . Then no money for school. But I loved my other skills. I could fix most any thing: cars, trucks, chainsaws..... Don't let that fool you. Working with your hands is a good thing. I've done it, still do. I did all those jobs to finish school.
> 
> I did school , got a pH D Science, taught college . Was not easy on the way.
> 
> ...


I didn't realize it at 17 when I got a job as a carpenters apprentice, but it turned out that is was my dream. I've done lots of other things for a paycheck, but now I can't imagine being happy doing anything else.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Lowtechredneck said:


> If you measure poverty only in the context of material wealth it might all be true. A man can be rich while having very little however.


How true.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Once married, have as many babies as possible. Don't wait until you're rich, but be ready to make sacrifices. It was the best thing I ever did; to have every single one of mine.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Lunatic Wrench said:


> It's not always as simple as a choice. Not everyone is good at school/collage for various reasons in the same ways not everyone is good at math, fixing cars, brain surgery.
> 
> If you don't have the mind of a surgeon or an accountant, looks like you might be a mechanic, it's a good job, but doesn't pay as much.
> 
> I came from poverty, I wasn't particularly good at school. I worked my butt off to make a decent living as a carpenter, and I'm a very good carpenter and I love what I do. The cost of living here has climbed much much faster than the pay scale for a construction superintendent. As a lead carpenter years ago I was comfortably lower middle income, now with my notably increased pay I'm not to far above the poverty level for where I live. Moving out of the area is not really a good choice because traffic here is so bad that going from my 30-45min commute to a 1.5-3hr commute will send my fuel expensive thru the roof, thus tanking any housing savings gained by moving well out of town.


caterpillar was hiring and training


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Lowtechredneck said:


> If you measure poverty only in the context of material wealth it might all be true. A man can be rich while having very little however.


it is hard to buy bread with love... I understand the nice idea of being rich in family and friends...etc.... but the way to measure how well a person or group is doing is by how well they can feed, cloth, and care for their families

a family that is rich in love is not poorer for having money


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> it is hard to buy bread with love... I understand the nice idea of being rich in family and friends...etc.... but the way to measure how well a person or group is doing is by how well they can feed, cloth, and care for their families
> 
> a family that is rich in love is not poorer for having money


Children means PROVIDING. I had already purchased two duplexes and was closing on a triplex when I found out I was going to be a father at 30. Wayyyyy back in the day, it was common for men to wait until their 30's, with a good business established, before having kids. It's a good idea still.


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Work hard in whatever you do, do not depend or count on others to financially support you. Build an emergency fund. Do not have kids. That's it.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Excellent post MM
> Most welfare rats do not get this.


Most welfare rats DO NOT WANT to get this. That is the issue.


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## Toefoot (Jun 21, 2017)

I would like to know who thought they could rid the world of poverty. We will always have poverty. Not that I am soulless when it comes to the poor but today's poor is not the same poor during the birth of this Nation, the civil war or the Great Depression.

Today we have institutional poor, groomed by policy and the education system.

My dad had a saying, The harder I worked the luckier I became. He meant both by using your back and brain cells. 

I have no solution for today's poverty except to tell them to look in the mirror, look at your spouse and look at your children. If this does not motivate........then you are the institutional poor that I have no time for.

Sounds harsh but I am OK with my belief over the governments perpetual solutions.


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## Toefoot (Jun 21, 2017)

Yavanna said:


> Work hard in whatever you do, do not depend or count on others to financially support you. Build an emergency fund. Do not have kids. That's it.


Do you plan on having children?


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

Don't spend more than you make...(take home);

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Michael_Js said:


> Don't spend more than you make...(take home);
> 
> Peace,
> Michael J.


Drats! Now you tell me! :vs_mad:


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Toefoot said:


> Yavanna said:
> 
> 
> > Work hard in whatever you do, do not depend or count on others to financially support you. Build an emergency fund. Do not have kids. That's it.
> ...


By any means, NO. kids are not just an expense, they are a life long responsability. Also, this world is a bad place, raising kids is a very complicated thing.


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I was recently attending a SAFE FAMILIES class (it is church program that provides short term -usually less then 3 months - housing for children of families in crisis ) - like a mother that has to attend a program or is going in rehab or surgery or even short jail terms
> 
> Any way one of the instructors said that people in poverty tend to stay in poverty for 20 years....
> 
> ...


While that is a good start to explaining why the poor stay poor I do no believe it is that simple.

1. The area you are born
2. your intelligence
3. motivation to exceed average preformance
4. Bad habits are huge! This one is often over looked. Do not buy tobacco, alocohol, junk food, gambling...there are many in this section.
5. Health...this ties into bad habits and lack of hygiene...it gets expensive quick.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Yavanna said:


> By any means, NO. kids are not just an expense, they are a life long responsability. Also, this world is a bad place, raising kids is a very complicated thing.


Au Contraire Mon-Ami

(Slippy is pretty proud that he communicated with @Yavanna in her native language...:tango_face_smile

Yavanna,

I hate to break it to you BUT...Children were so dang EASY!

After the first year or so of them lying around eating, crapping, crying and crapping some more, I figured out you can get children to do stuff you don't want to do!

Cleaning the floor by eating crumbs and stuff that the dogs don't eat off the floor for one thing, then later all the vacuuming and dusting and yard work and shit.

And don t get me started about cleaning toilets, just give the little rug rats their favorite stuffed animal, pour some cleaner in the toilets and tell them to take little Fluffy on swim! Splash little Fluffy all around as much as you want sweetie! Clean toilet City! :vs_smirk:

Then if you do it right, they are ready to get the hell out by the time they are 18 or so... none of this lifetime responsibility stuff as you think! :vs_smile:

I should write a book on bringing children on up! :vs_lol:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Yavanna said:


> By any means, NO. kids are not just an expense, they are a life long responsability. Also, this world is a bad place, raising kids is a very complicated thing.


What the hell?
Children are the future. Children reared properly will be the good future.

You are in this world....why? To take up space, enjoy your own life and that's it? How sad and selfish.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Denton said:


> What the hell?
> Children are the future. Children reared properly will be the good future.
> 
> You are in this world....why? To take up space, enjoy your own life and that's it? How sad and selfish.


I think that is a very judgmental view, Denton. If Yavanna does not want to bring children into a chaotic world, then she does not have to. As long as she is not killing any unborn (or these days born...) children, then I say that is her choice and it is as good as anyone else's. Judge not, lest you be judged. I think someone important said that once.... if only I could remember Whom......


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> I think that is a very judgmental view, Denton. If Yavanna does not want to bring children into a chaotic world, then she does not have to. As long as she is not killing any unborn (or these days born...) children, then I say that is her choice and it is as good as anyone else's. Judge not, lest you be judged. I think someone important said that once.... if only I could remember Whom......


She suggested her point of view for everyone. I didn't say she must have children but she advocated others didn't do the right thing. See the difference?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Yavanna said:


> By any means, NO. kids are not just an expense, they are a life long responsability. Also, this world is a bad place, raising kids is a very complicated thing.


Unfortunately, you will have missed out on one of life's great treasures and experiences. In addition the responsibility to reproduce yourself and culture.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> What the hell?
> Children are the future. Children reared properly will be the good future.
> 
> You are in this world....why? To take up space, enjoy your own life and that's it? How sad and selfish.


Psst...(Slippy whispers, not wanting to offend anyone)...,

_*MANY MANY MANY PEOPLE JUST SHOULD NOT PROCREATE!*_

the world would be a much better place!


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Denton said:


> Yavanna said:
> 
> 
> > By any means, NO. kids are not just an expense, they are a life long responsability. Also, this world is a bad place, raising kids is a very complicated thing.
> ...


yep, I take up space in this world, and my point is not to make any more people to use up the space and resources in this planet. 
No kids popping out from here.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Ragnarök said:


> While that is a good start to explaining why the poor stay poor I do no believe it is that simple.
> 
> 1. The area you are born
> 2. your intelligence
> ...


sure those can factor in... BUT the three main reasons poor folks stay poor... kids/education/work

have kids before marriage no education and no work.... get ya every time

read this

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Denton said:


> She suggested her point of view for everyone. I didn't say she must have children but she advocated others didn't do the right thing. See the difference?


I reread this entire thread (it is a very interesting thread!) to make sure what I remember Yavanna saying here. I think she suggested that having children can cause poverty (it can) and also stated her reasons for not personally wanting to have children (valid ones). She did not call anyone selfish or sad because they chose to have children. I know many people who are/were selfish in having children. Sometimes that results in the children being sad.....


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## Toefoot (Jun 21, 2017)

stevekozak said:


> I reread this entire thread (it is a very interesting thread!) to make sure what I remember Yavanna saying here. I think she suggested that having children can cause poverty (it can) and also stated her reasons for not personally wanting to have children (valid ones). She did not call anyone selfish or sad because they chose to have children. I know many people who are/were selfish in having children. Sometimes that results in the children being sad.....


OK?

Her choice, maybe she is afraid of life long commitment or being intimate, maybe failure. Who knows with people that write with anonymity. No bigs


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Kids can cause poverty, but also poorer people are the ones that have more kids, and have they children earlier in life, wich causes an endless circle of poverty. And most of the times they are "married" with a partner. It seems to be such a difficult thing to convince them to consider their conditions before having another child.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Yavanna said:


> Kids can cause poverty, but also poorer people are the ones that have more kids, and have they children earlier in life, wich causes an endless circle of poverty. And most of the times they are "married" with a partner. It seems to be such a difficult thing to convince them to consider their conditions before having another child.


Here in the US the vast majority of black and hispanic people have children out of wedlock. I applaud your decision not to have children and I pray that BILLIONS of others follow your lead! SALUTE!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> I reread this entire thread (it is a very interesting thread!) to make sure what I remember Yavanna saying here. I think she suggested that having children can cause poverty (it can) and also stated her reasons for not personally wanting to have children (valid ones). She did not call anyone selfish or sad because they chose to have children. I know many people who are/were selfish in having children. Sometimes that results in the children being sad.....


No need in telling me what you think she said. She can say it for herself:


> yep, I take up space in this world, and my point is not to make any more people to use up the space and resources in this planet.
> No kids popping out from here.


Post #36, if you don't believe me.

The post to which I responded suggested nobody should procreate, as if God's favorite creation is the scourge of Earth. @Slippy is correct in suggesting there are some who shouldn't procreate and I agree with that. If @Yavanna wants to place herself in that group, that's her choice but she is wrong to suggest nobody should procreate.
Think about it for a moment. Starting today, nobody procreated.


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Many people have children out of a wedlock here too (white, black, indigenous, etc), but mostly they at least live together (our law recognize this kind of union as being similar to a marriage). for a while before splitting up. Most of the single mothers are so because their husband (or the father's child) left her. The poorer a woman is, the less likely she is to get a pension from the father to the children. It also worsens the poverty situation for this family. 
One city nearby mine once put up an outdoor near the hospital, saying that before having children, one shouls consider its financial, familiar and psychological conditions. It met furious backlash, mostly from "lefts" that claimed they wanted to forbid poor people from procriating. 🙄🙄


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> No need in telling me what you think she said. She can say it for herself:
> 
> Post #36, if you don't believe me.
> 
> ...


Like immigration...for at least 10 Years....:vs_peace:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Like immigration...for at least 10 Years....:vs_peace:


That would include people like you and me. There wouldn't be people like our children in this world. 
Our children aren't the same as immigration.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Denton said:


> No need in telling me what you think she said. She can say it for herself:
> 
> Post #36, if you don't believe me.
> 
> ...


Well, until she actually weighs in on exactly what it is you are interpreting her words to mean, I am going to believe otherwise. I do not think she is suggesting that nobody should procreate. I think she is definitely saying she does not intend to procreate, for reasons that are important to her. I doubt that she cares that anyone here, including you or I, has procreated (well, there might be a few she feels should not.... :tango_face_wink: ). I suspect she sees many people in her country that really should not procreate. I see many in mine that should not procreate. I think her general thesis, with which I agree, is that there would be less people in poverty if less people procreated. The numbers bear that out. I am fine with you procreating like a bunny-rabbit if you wish to, as you seem to be the type that is able to provide for those you create without relying on others. I think that was her point.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Intending to have a child out of wedlock is in my opinion child abuse and borders on evil.

If parents do not intend on staying together then don't have babies. Most of the out of wedlock births could be avoided if the male were to get a vasectomy and the female to get her tubes tied.

That is one of the platforms that I will be running on for the upcoming election...lain:



Yavanna said:


> Many people have children out of a wedlock here too (white, black, indigenous, etc), but mostly they at least live together (our law recognize this kind of union as being similar to a marriage). for a while before splitting up. Most of the single mothers are so because their husband (or the father's child) left her. The poorer a woman is, the less likely she is to get a pension from the father to the children. It also worsens the poverty situation for this family.
> One city nearby mine once put up an outdoor near the hospital, saying that before having children, one shouls consider its financial, familiar and psychological conditions. It met furious backlash, mostly from "lefts" that claimed they wanted to forbid poor people from procriating. &#55357;&#56900;&#55357;&#56900;


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> Well, until she actually weighs in on exactly what it is you are interpreting her words to mean, I am going to believe otherwise. I do not think she is suggesting that nobody should procreate. I think she is definitely saying she does not intend to procreate, for reasons that are important to her. I doubt that she cares that anyone here, including you or I, has procreated (well, there might be a few she feels should not.... :tango_face_wink: ). I suspect she sees many people in her country that really should not procreate. I see many in mine that should not procreate. I think her general thesis, with which I agree, is that there would be less people in poverty if less people procreated. The numbers bear that out. I am fine with you procreating like a bunny-rabbit if you wish to, as you seem to be the type that is able to provide for those you create without relying on others. I think that was her point.


Uh, did you read her responses, particularly post #36 (her words and not my interpretation).


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Sorry if my words can cause missinterpretation, please remember I am not a native english speaker. 
I do not intend to ever have children 
Poor people would be way less poor if they had less children
You guys have as many kids as you wish, I never said you should not have any


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Yavanna said:


> Sorry if my words can cause missinterpretation, please remember I am not a native english speaker.
> I do not intend to ever have children
> Poor people would be way less poor if they had less children
> You guys have as many kids as you wish, I never said you should not have any


Thanks Yavanna!

On another note, I wish that all followers of islam would adopt the "No Child Ever" philosophy!:tango_face_smile:


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> sure those can factor in... BUT the three main reasons poor folks stay poor... kids/education/work
> 
> have kids before marriage no education and no work.... get ya every time
> 
> ...


I read through the article and those are excellent points. Single parent households are far less likely to instill morals and work ethic into a child.

If you come from this background you will need to find self discipline and find it fast.

Education is huge. Yet our system setup is geared towards short term monetary gain by the colleges and schools. They raise the cost of tuition and seek as many applicants as possible. Most people have no business being in university/college...it is now watered down to a large pool of the mentally insufficient. Trade schools are not encouraged enough for American youth. In middle school our educational system should be offering classes that build skills for a career after entering a trade school or apprenticeship. There should be two types of high schools that require testing to enter. The first geared towards careers in science, engineering, etc. The second geared towards trades.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Denton said:


> Uh, did you read her responses, particularly post #36 (her words and not my interpretation).


Uh, yes I did. Read post 49. Her words. :vs_wave:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> Uh, yes I did. Read post 49. Her words. :vs_wave:


I read that post, Steve. Liked it, even. You should have seen that.

Again, her words, as if there is doubt:


> yep, I take up space in this world, and my point is not to make any more people to use up the space and resources in this planet.
> No kids popping out from here.


I logically deduced her position is that procreating creates people who are going to take space and use resources and that it is wrong. It is logical to think she thinks that _anyone_ having children is a bad thing.
She is technically correct. People do take up space and they do use resources. That doesn't have to be a bad thing. She seems to be a really good person. I have reason to believe she would rear a child into a great adult. She seems smart. Her child might grow up to the scientist who comes up with the way to perfect renewable energy. Who knows? Same goes with other people.

Colin Powell was one of many children of a broken family. He grew up to be a fine leader. I think the same goes with Ben Carson.

I've done good things and I'm glad my parents had me. The best thing I did was to procreate.


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## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

Nope Denton.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

SGG said:


> Nope Denton.


Great response. Huh?


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## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

"Logically"

I've decided not to have kids either, for selfish reasons. They are a lot of work and responsibility. I'm not poor but I'm not rich.

I don't force these views on anyone, and Yavanna hasnt either. You misunderstood and are having a hard time admitting it. No biggie.









Sorry for the stupid short response earlier


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

SGG said:


> "Logically"
> 
> I've decided not to have kids either, for selfish reasons. They are a lot of work and responsibility. I'm not poor but I'm not rich.
> 
> ...


Your answer is a good one.

My logic is clear considering what she said. By the way; I know what the word means and I used it well.


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## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

Assumption isn't the same as logic.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm not saying it is wrong for you to not have kids. I am saying it is wrong to suggest having kids is wrong.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Having kids is a wonderful thing for some people. As long as they understand the work, devotion, patience, and realities of raising a child then go for it. 

I chose not to have kids, not because I don’t like them, but rather, I didn’t think I had what it takes to raise a child. When I was younger I was barely able to keep myself out of harms way and support me, let alone a child. Having kids then would have been a disaster. As I got older, and more stable, financially and mentally, I came to the realization that I wasn’t cut out for it. I didn’t have the patience or the want really. 

I saw first hand how raising kids can go bad and given my disfunctional family and my mind set I decided it wasn’t for me. Fortunately, I met and married a woman who already had a great kid by a previous marriage and didn’t want any more children so it worked out. I have no regrets.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Denton said:


> I read that post, Steve. Liked it, even. You should have seen that.
> 
> Again, her words, as if there is doubt:
> 
> ...


Hey, Denton, I am glad your parents had you too!! :tango_face_smile:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

stevekozak said:


> Hey, Denton, I am glad your parents had you too!! :tango_face_smile:


I'm glad yours had you, too. The tax man is glad about us, too!


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I am glad my parents had me too. It’s been my extreme pleasure pissing everyone off for these past 60 years. :devil:


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> I am glad my parents had me too. It's been my extreme pleasure pissing everyone off for these past 60 years. :devil:


Must be from the same batch- 


> Occupation- Pissing people off since 1960


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

hawgrider said:


> Must be from the same batch-


The owner of my company asked me the other day how I was doing. I said surviving. He looked at at me and asked, Surviving? Just surviving? I said yeah, surviving. When I was young I survived because I had my whole life ahead of me and had the world by the ass. He looked at me funny and asked, and now? I smiled, :tango_face_grin: and said, now I am surviving just to piss you off.


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