# Water Guns Full of Hot Sauce



## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Anyone who knows me knows that I love my firearms. When it comes to self-defense, there really isn't anything better. I wouldn't advise any preppers to plan on not having them in SHTF. But there may be times when lethal force isn't advisable or required. In my group there would likely be people such as my very liberal sister in law and mom who would refuse to use firearms for their own stubborn reasons. There would also be young kids who wouldn't have any firearms experience and be too young to teach. Even if you stockpile lots and lots of bullets, during a long term TEOTWAKI situation bullets may eventually run out. There would also be the real prospect of gun confiscation in a long term civil conflict of any kind. For all these reasons, I think it makes sense to have some kind of nonlethal self-defense tech on hand.

Anyone who has used bear mace or pepper spray knows that they actually pose a threat to the user. In the wrong wind someone using spray could easily end up disabling their own vision and ability to fight back.

Water guns are cheap. You can get a decent one for ten bucks. Hot sauce in your eyes is just as disabling as pepper spray. It seems like stocking up on several restaurant sized bottles of hot sauce and enough water guns to arm a small army could be done for about a hundred bucks. Another great thing about hot sauce is that it is a renewable resource. The ghost pepper, one of the hottest peppers in the world, was developed by the Indian military to be used as a source of pepper spray. Peppers are easy to grow and produce prolifically. The capsaicin in the peppers acts as a natural preservative. Ghost pepper juice, due to it's incredibly high capsaicin content, will keep for the better part of a decade if stored properly. So as long as your water guns hold up, if you had a place to grow the peppers, you could have a renewable source of ammo and a lot of hot sauce, which will likely be a valuable trading commodity in SHTF. Nothing makes beans and rice taste better than some hot sauce. 

It's likely that murder would remain a criminal offense even in a long term SHTF situation. The local governments would still do their best to prosecute and make examples of murderers. You can't ever get a murder or attempted murder charge for spraying someone with a water gun full of hot sauce. You could put a water gun in the hands of a small child and they would be way better off against attackers than if they remained unarmed. 

Of course, in any kind of self-defense situation it is way preferable to have actual firearms at your disposal. But what about people who you don't trust enough to hand a firearm? In SHTF every person you give a firearm or bullets to could end up being a threat to you or your family. There could be someone with valuable skills, like a doctor, who you need in your group. You may encounter someone who you are moved to help for whatever reason. A water gun full of hot sauce would be a weapon you could put in their hands on day 1 and you could know that they could at least try to aid in defense if such a situation arose. Even if the government started confiscating guns, you could bet that they wouldn't be enacting water gun control.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

May not work well in below freezing temperatures. I am not arming anyone I do not trust with anything. They die, they die. You really need pepper spray for your mom and sister in law? In most imaginable SHTF situations if I have to use force, I have no intention of playing around.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

saw this stupid crap on DoomsDay Preppers - next to throwing bottles of vodka for a weapon it was dumb as hell ....

if I had no intention of killing anyone - got squirted by some dumbazz - you'd be dead and it wouldn't even have to be SHTF time ....


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

OK now Jayhawker,

You just messin' with us!?!?

I've written and said some pretty stupid crap but for real? Not a good idea.

Thanks for listening,

Slippy!:vs_wave:



Jayhawker said:


> Anyone who knows me knows that I love my firearms. When it comes to self-defense, there really isn't anything better. I wouldn't advise any preppers to plan on not having them in SHTF. But there may be times when lethal force isn't advisable or required. In my group there would likely be people such as my very liberal sister in law and mom who would refuse to use firearms for their own stubborn reasons. There would also be young kids who wouldn't have any firearms experience and be too young to teach. Even if you stockpile lots and lots of bullets, during a long term TEOTWAKI situation bullets may eventually run out. There would also be the real prospect of gun confiscation in a long term civil conflict of any kind. For all these reasons, I think it makes sense to have some kind of nonlethal self-defense tech on hand.
> 
> Anyone who has used bear mace or pepper spray knows that they actually pose a threat to the user. In the wrong wind someone using spray could easily end up disabling their own vision and ability to fight back.
> 
> ...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I wonder if a capsaicin/water mix would work or would it clog the gun.


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Well I can't say I'm surprised at the general reaction. LOL. I haven't seen that particular doomsday prepper episode. Obviously real guns are preferable, but I honestly do think this idea has some merit. You need a backup plan for your backup plan. If this was someone's primary plan I would laugh, but it's a backup plan. This post is not a troll. I really think it isn't a horrible idea to have some water guns and hot sauce around. Even if not for defense, hot sauce will be highly sought after during any long term food shortages. So if you've got a bunch of hot sauce anyway, why not have some water guns? That being said, I of course expected a bit of heehawing at this.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> I wonder if a capsaicin/water mix would work or would it clog the gun.


Anyone who is contemplating filling a squirt gun with hot sauce and wondering if it will clog the gun....know this...that there is someone who is not giving a second thought that his 12 gauge shottie will clog or not....


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

That wasn't the question. Jerk. 
Play along, for once in your cranky life. 
Another thought - all my squirt guns leaked. I don't think I'd want it in my pocket.


Slippy said:


> Anyone who is contemplating filling a squirt gun with hot sauce and wondering if it will clog the gun....know this...that there is someone who is not giving a second thought that his 12 gauge shottie will clog or not....


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> That wasn't the question. Jerk.
> Play along, for once in your cranky life.
> Another thought - all my squirt guns leaked. I don't think I'd want it in my pocket.


At our age, a leaky squirt "gun" in our pocket is...oh nevermind...:vs_blush:


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm not going to poo poo the idea but I will say it would be my last resort.

As for the kids, I could already see them squirting each other. Then you have a bunch of crying kids to beat...uh I mean, deal with.

If you're going to store hot sauce just be advised it does deteriorate over time. So you may load a water gun with hot sauce thinking it'll by you some time and really you're just hitting a bad guy in the eye with red water.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> At our age, a leaky squirt "gun" in our pocket is...oh nevermind...:vs_blush:


Hey! We ain't that old, yet!


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I don't think having a squirt gun full of hot sauce would make a very good weapon. But I can think of at least 1001 practical jokes I could play with one. Thanks for the idea @Jayhawker!


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Hmmmm... if only B there were L some common E household chemical A which would C be more H effective...


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

They got this stuff now called "liquid ass" which fits in there somewhere between deterrent and lethality...


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Not endorsing it, but if you really wanted to get sadistic with it you could always do like the muslims in Europe have gotten fond of doing and load it up with draino. That's some truly barbaric next level chemical warfare. Personally, I don't think I would want to burn the face off of even my worst enemy. They'd be getting the Mozambique drill long before I'd resort to draino. From a psyop perspective if dealing with a large group of hostile marauders camped nearby, it may potentially make sense. Once one guy came back with his face burned off the rest of the group would likely decide that it just isn't worth risking it. I probably wouldn't have the stomach for it, but potentially getting your face burned off and living the rest of your life deformed may be more of a deterrent than getting shot to death. I've heard in London that muslims are driving up on scooters with coffee cups full of the stuff and just throwing it in the faces of innocent passers by. It's hard for me to conceptualize a more evil crime. But depending on the situation the moral calculus may change if SHTF.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

When I use to teach rape prevention to dependent wives in the Marines, I use to talk about filling a lemon juice container with ammonia


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I prefer this &#8230;..


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

A quick slice with a knife in "non-lethal" and makes everyone back up. And a good knife doesn't leak in your pocket, either.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

In all seriousness, I believe in the same "escalation of violence" the cops do. That being, if attacked, you move one step up the escalation list.

If grabbed or threatened to get hit with something, yes, I'd cut the attacker. Even though I work-out, I've reached the age of "disparity of force."

I've even purchased a special knife for this. Legal to carry, the blade is designed to slash or stab, and the handle is heavier than brass knuckles.

...oh, after that warning, there is the Kimber, too...


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Load it with what you want but I like those spray water bottles better than a squirt gun. A lot less likely to leak and some of them shoot a long way.

Fortunately everyone here is comfortable with a rifle and hunting.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

A squirt gun as a back up??? Nawww, I think if I run out of 5.56 I will switch to 308 or 9mm or 45 or 12 gauge.................


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Jayhawker said:


> Anyone who knows me knows that I love my firearms. When it comes to self-defense, there really isn't anything better. I wouldn't advise any preppers to plan on not having them in SHTF. But there may be times when lethal force isn't advisable or required. In my group there would likely be people such as my very liberal sister in law and mom who would refuse to use firearms for their own stubborn reasons. There would also be young kids who wouldn't have any firearms experience and be too young to teach. Even if you stockpile lots and lots of bullets, during a long term TEOTWAKI situation bullets may eventually run out. There would also be the real prospect of gun confiscation in a long term civil conflict of any kind. For all these reasons, I think it makes sense to have some kind of nonlethal self-defense tech on hand.
> 
> Anyone who has used bear mace or pepper spray knows that they actually pose a threat to the user. In the wrong wind someone using spray could easily end up disabling their own vision and ability to fight back.
> 
> ...


Good plan on the water pistol full of hotsauce. Straight ammonia also works well. The mailmen used to carry it back when I was a kid to fend off mean dogs. Now having clowned around with modern oleo resin capsicum pepper spray quite a bit it tends to come out in what is called a ballistic narow pencil stream..meanng its not bad about getting onto the wrong target. Now back in the old days we had some crap called Mace which was a tear gas derivative I think. It came out in a wide aresol spray which got on everybody involved. Fortuantely it wasnt very incapacitating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(spray)


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

If you don't have any water guns laying around, use your imagination...Rubber bands dipped in hot sauce could do the trick, or how about hot sauce "water balloons"? Hot sauce tennis balls is another possible option. :devil:

Sorry, Jayhawker, just funning you. Couldn't help it!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

We used to fill these to 150psi and soapy water, then blow shitting feral cats off our porch.

Might be unwieldy but you could certainly deliver a blast of pepper spray. 

But would not be my first choice.....


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> If you don't have any water guns laying around, use your imagination...Rubber bands dipped in hot sauce could do the trick, or how about hot sauce "water balloons"? Hot sauce tennis balls is another possible option. :devil:
> 
> Sorry, Jayhawker, just funning you. Couldn't help it!


Ah ha!!! I told ya you were one of the guys! :tango_face_wink:


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I tried driving squirrels out of the attic of the man cave with Tennis Balls soaked in ammonia just like the cute dog catcher lady said to do. They are still up there having hootenannies.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Ah ha!!! I told ya you were one of the guys! :tango_face_wink:


Please. I'm your little sister. That's all.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

I guess I'm the outlying boogyman here. For whatever reason, ***** come from miles around to crap on OUR roof... so much that it has to be regularly SHOVELED off, and the gutters clogged with **** poop as well. I see a **** on the roof, I don't squirt, spray, shout, or toss a balloon. They get jacklighted with a .22 rifle.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

StratMaster said:


> I guess I'm the outlying boogyman here. For whatever reason, ***** come from miles around to crap on OUR roof... so much that it has to be regularly SHOVELED off, and the gutters clogged with **** poop as well. I see a **** on the roof, I don't squirt, spray, shout, or toss a balloon. They get jacklighted with a .22 rifle.


What is it about your roof that attracts them? I can understand them liking your garbage cans, but the roof? That's odd....I've been told they like shiny things. They also like to wash their food. Here's a cute clip of a racoon trying to wash off cotton candy,


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Most States would consider that a weapon. And treat it as any other pepper spray device . Get caught with it use it and not being in compliance with the law could get messy.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I tried mixing hot sauce and water to use on plants to prevent damage from deer. The mixture clogs the sprayer. It doesn’t work. A complete waste of time and it ruins the sprayer.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Chiefster23 said:


> I tried mixing hot sauce and water to use on plants to prevent damage from deer. The mixture clogs the sprayer. It doesn't work. A complete waste of time and it ruins the sprayer.


Yea some stuff does not mix well. I tried zest soap as some recommended. Deer just figured it was bath time and all showed up.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

To be honest, I'd check local laws, and then if it's legal, I would call Cold Steel and get some of their 8% gel spray.

I believe that "gray men" should have "gray toys." For example, I have a perfectly polished TOPS C.U.T. 4.0, and I'll never carry it. Oh, in the hands of a guy with the slightest bushido familiarity, he could easily kill everyone in a saloon. But the weapon would look "odd" to the police officers who would show up. Not good.

You put raspberry jelly and razor blades in Super Soaker and abrade the neighbor's pit bull, trust me, you'll go to jail.

I've purchased the Cold Steel gel for my wife and one of her friends. And while I 'modify' the edges of my knives for clients and personal use, they all look like what they are--jackknives. Now I finally found the folder that had it all, at a close-out section of my monthly catalog from Blue Ridge, and I bought two of them.

My wife has a common, manufactured product, and I have a jackknife. Let the screaming attacker come up with his own story.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well as a faithful listener to all the gardening shows on the radio...the Dirt Doctor recommends hot pepper garlic tea to repell chewing bugs. Its not designed to scare off deer. Somebody musta been confused to think that. Or perhaps lingering too long over the wine. It dont plug the sprayer for them who knows how to make it right. 
https://www.dirtdoctor.com/garden/Garlic-Pepper-Tea-Recipe_vq2545.htm


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Human piss?
Just adding to the dog pile.
Id save the hot sauce for the *****. 
I prefer lead....
If I need a weapon, I want it to END the need for a weapon.
If I don't trust someone enough to carry a weapon, I will leave them in a safe place..
Look at the pretty flowers....HA


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)




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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

That's definitely true. But if you're dealing with desperate unarmed thieves or neighbors, using a nonlethal spray would be far less likely to get you booked into prison. Even if you shoot a robber and don't kill them, they tend to book you into prison these days in most states. One could also imagine that a partial breakdown of law and order might change the calculus of those still trying their best to maintain it. In a long term famine scenario for instance it's likely murders would increase and severely strain the capabilities of law enforcement to go after people for comparatively minor crimes. Of course if law and order completely breaks down the pepper spray idea would be likely dumb. But in the case of a partial breakdown of law and order it could prove to be useful in certain circumstances.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Jay my boy,

While I appreciate your tenacity and steadfastness toward your ridiculous idea, the first step to redemption is admitting you had a bonehead idea. :crying:

Go ahead son, just admit it. The truth will set you FREE! :tango_face_smile:

Your new friend,

Slippy! :vs_wave:



Jayhawker said:


> That's definitely true. But if you're dealing with desperate unarmed thieves or neighbors, using a nonlethal spray would be far less likely to get you booked into prison. Even if you shoot a robber and don't kill them, they tend to book you into prison these days in most states. One could also imagine that a partial breakdown of law and order might change the calculus of those still trying their best to maintain it. In a long term famine scenario for instance it's likely murders would increase and severely strain the capabilities of law enforcement to go after people for comparatively minor crimes. Of course if law and order completely breaks down the pepper spray idea would be likely dumb. But in the case of a partial breakdown of law and order it could prove to be useful in certain circumstances.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

We just got a libtard governor and he has a gun and red flag mentality. The nice thing about our CCW provision is that former governor Walker added that felons who were shot cannot sue the victim. Now that might be repealed.

Our only hope in Wisconsin is that our senate and congress is mostly GOP. But there's going to be a fight centering on guns and our rights.

Unless mandated, I'm not going to carry any form of spray gel. If attacked by fist or a stick I'll rely on knives. If the attacker has a weapon that will inflict lots of damage, he'll just be shot.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well as has been mentioned prevously...if time and conditions permit..following a continum of force is a good plan for all concerned. For cops it works like this:
1. Verbal commands
2. Soft hands
3. Pepper spray
4. Asp
5. Gun 
Never had a tazer but suspect that could be placed in the pecking order right after the Pepper spray and prior to the club. Now if the alleged perp engages in deadly conduct either due to a weapon or attempting a fatal blow..which is usually considered to be an attempted hit to the head or a kick to the groin...a preson can jump direct to the gun. It sorta conveys to the jury all non lethal remedies were exhausted before being forced to pop a cap.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

It would serve convenient when dining out and having your personal hot sauce dispenser...


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

They may not be the SHTF solution, but they sure would be fun to take to an ANTIFA rally !!


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Demitri.14 said:


> They may not be the SHTF solution, but they sure would be fun to take to an ANTIFA rally !!


While I would never go near one of their rallies, like anyone else, I run errands and this being Madison, the rally might come to me.

I'm a believer about what Col. Jeff Cooper said, and that relates to his "color system" for recognizing dangerous situations. For me and ANTIFA, the deal would automatically be "Condition Orange" and I'd grab my wife and make an exit. The reason I have my 'special chair' at the coffee cafe' is that I can see all three exits and my back is to the wall. The modern world.


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## Krystof (Nov 6, 2020)

Hello all. I used to frequent a "survivalist" forum full of over-armed "shotgun & pickup" types as epitomized in the original "Tremors" film. I thought "preppers" were supposed to be more the under-armed "VW minibus" types. As epitomized in the "Utopia" web series. But--judging by the largely dismissive responses to this pepper spray discussion--it looks like the same narrow-minded gun-huggers rule this forum. Here are my comments and questions.

* I came here hoping to find people who know more than I do about pepper spray. Instead they seem mostly not knowing and not wanting to learn to the point of taking the time to make inane dismissive comments. Which makes me wonder just how much they know about the guns that they think they know.

* If anyone cares to Google "DIY pepper defense," there are prepper sites which do seem knowledgeable and interested.

* However--my conclusion after surfing there and here is that a lot of experiments need to be done if anyone is serious.

* Also--just as everyone practices their guns--everyone should practice with their cayenne even if it is a reliable commercial product. You need to know how well and how far you can aim, and how well you can function if the wind blows some back at you or drips a lot on your hand. Commercial sprayers generally expire in 1-2 years. So use the expired ones for practice.

* All my statements assume that those spending huge time and resources in "surviving" or "preparing" will also go out of their way NOT to walk into dark alleys or bar fights. I.e. if you behave consistent to the goals of surviving or prepping--it should be very unlikely that you will ever need to use a gun. Any time you allow yourself to get into such a situation--you are by definition doing something or living somewhere that lowers your life expectancy. Similar to the logic that--if you hope to live longer than average--drive your car a little slower than average. Of course, several statements made in the discussion indicate that humans are consistently not consistent in their logic.

* For 24/7 portability and effectiveness, I would suggest not going DIY. Get a second-smallest "gel" type sprayer with dye added. Gel is most resistant to the wind. Also, the dye prevents an attempted rapist or murderer from getting away for several blocks and then claiming he is not the guy. "Second smallest" because you should never have to use it. So I suggest a pepper spray and folding combo-knife always on the belt--no more of a nuisance than a second cell phone. Or for beltless women--on the keychain and pull it out of the purse every time you step into the parking lot etc.

* Why a "folding combo knife"? Because most are very flimsy but--some are well made that the knife is a good as tactical knives--and with a box cutter or other tools at the other end. So firstly it is much less of an annoying wasted effort than carrying and cleaning a gun all your life which is likely never used. Secondly a cop or security guard might more often see this as "a tool" than "a weapon." Thirdly--if you manage to hit a shooter with your pepper spray--the first choice for your next move should be to run. But if you are on the highway or in the woods he might recover and come after you with far better preparation against your spray. Or there might be children or others around that you do not want killed as he shoots randomly while blinded by the spray. So if necessary--your second choice is to grab a chair and break every bone in that head and hand holding that gun while he is blinded by the spray. Or--third choice is frantically and repeatedly stab the arm and hand--until you can grab the gun--then kick and stomp the knees. All of which might be practiced monthly on a used store dummy.

[Please be clear that I am talking about response to a mass killer on a shooting spree who probably has more weapons in his pockets and possibly is backed up by other shooters. This is not about a mugger who you can better just hand your wallet and walk away.]

* I welcome input as to whether stabbing the arm repeatedly will reliably disable the arm? If so I believe this would be far less stressful than the more standard move of slitting the throat.

* I agree that a concealed-carry is better. And as with James Bond can be quite small. Also note that the nuisance of maintaining the CC permit is much less than studying martial arts for 20 years. And much better. Especially after you get too old to kick.

* However.... outside of the movies... I often saw mass killers wearing Kevlar but never gas masks. So it is quite possible that the pepper-and-knife defense may succeed where the Bond style popgun will fail.

* Also...... a bottle of high-scoville cayenne capsule.... and small empty plant sprayer.... and some mineral water that you boubht in the airport lounge.... might even be taken on the plane. So if your plain is hijacked.... you may be 5 minutes away from being locked and loaded with an effective weapon. (Drinking water with 1 tsp cayenne is also said to blast open arteries in case of a heart attack. Also to staunch bleeding in case of injury.)

* Also..... a true prepper should be prepared to defend the home decisively against an entire gang. In normal times, i would agree with most experts who suggest a shotgun with buckshot and as semi-auto as possible. I like buckshot because it gives a good chance to hit the legs--thus being less lethal as well as less protected. Secondly if you can afford it--and semi auto rifle with a .50 calibre adapter. Thus enable shock-and-awe to achieve both escalation and de-escalation. By first demolishing their motorbikes or vehicles. Thus maybe scare them off.

* Also.... some people suggested throwing bleach or drano which are quite dangerous.... and another suggested a flare gun...... I would suggest the flare gun with a long-distance slide-sprayer and several jerrycans of kerosene. Then maybe you can just drench the baddies and their vehicles with kerosene. They might get the message and run. Otherwise, fire a warning flare in the distance. Then shout, "If you don't start running the next flare goes on your fuel soaked bodies." Then if necessary fire the flare at the baddest looking baddie. (Experiment needed. If you fire a flare at a clothed dummy drenched in kerosene, will it ignite? Once ignited, can the fire be put out with blankets? If not, you might try fuel grade alcohol. Do not use gasoline. Which, once ignited, unstoppably kills everything including you and your house. Kerosene smells scary and might blind them temporarily--but is actually not much more dangerous than olive oil.)

* Also.... before you "shoot first and let God sort it out" according to the Hatfield and McCoy types here.... consider that the more justified you are in killing someone...... the more likely that his relatives are equally sociopathic and likely to come back for your family...... Killing unnecessarily is an unnecessary risk factor.

* More on-topic here..... 1 million scoville pepper powder can probably be stocked up in quantity. And using a cordless paint sprayer or power washer--you probably can figure out how to disable people from 100 feet--or to create such a fog that devastates an entire biker gang with helmets on.

* Some recipes add garlic oil. But this might damage the eyes. Cayenne can kill people who have breathing problems. But is actually an ingredient in herbal eye washes. So in general--spraying people with pure cayenne in water is probably less likely to result in lasting damage or messy lawsuits than punching someone in the face.

* Good point someone made here that pepper SAUCE goes bad. I got some that went brown right here. Also once had cayenne powder that got full of cobwebs from worms. Also you can NOT get "sauce" with 1 million scovilles.

* Some sites suggest commercially-made pepper spray that is available in "economy refill" sizes.

* However you can certainly make your own stuff from scoville-rated bulk pepper powders. Evidently 500k scoville might be good enough--and 1 million scoville is a commercial defense grade. The best name-brand sprays seem to be 3 million scoville and some sites suggest insisting on that. However I suspect 1 million scoville is fully adequate and safer to handle.

* Most recipes suggest vinegar as the solvent. But I suspect water would be effective and more practical. Experimentation is needed.

* According to many herbalists--ordinary cayenne burns and blinds temporarily but is actually good for the eyes. Not sure if this is true with 1 million scoville.

* You might need rubber gloves and a gas mask to safely broadcast the cayenne solution.

* But ceyenne sprays have proven stopping power. And are not stopped by leather or kevlar. Not so for airguns or defensive paintballs which another discussion mentions here. I would say those are a waste of time.

* But it doesn't hurt to have a few crossbows.

* But aside from a kerosene sprayer--the most likely alternative weapon to be worth developing might be a nail gun. Which has been known to kill workers after accidentally going through 1/2 inch plywood. A carpenter told me that as is, even with safety features disabled, a nail gun cannot shoot a significant distance. But it might be possible to beef this up, especially with the pneumatic hose style, not the "cordless" style. A large nail could potentially punch through kevlar. And the main reason to focus on the nail gun is they are designed to be fed with nails in an endless belt.

* There is a "dart" style projectile for paintball guns. However its body is wide and its needle is not long. It has good penetration on naked flesh but I don't think it can get through a leather jacket.

* However, one more possibililty is a tranquilizer gun that game wardens use on big animals. These are never semi-automatic but some do have quite a long needle. Advantages:

1. Probably can penetrate Kevlar.
2. Certainly less violent than any option you would have with any conventional weapon.
3. You might accidently kill someone by overestimating the dose. But it would be difficult to argue in court that you were intending to kill them. Indeed your use of such a weapon indicates your strong desire to avoid killing.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Many years ago I use to teach a rape prevention class (back when I was an MP in the Corps)

I use to tell the ladies. A ReaLemon full of ammonia was a wonderful deterrent... trying to see or breath with it in your face.... awful


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

Illini Warrior said:


> saw this stupid crap on DoomsDay Preppers - next to throwing bottles of vodka for a weapon it was dumb as hell ....
> 
> if I had no intention of killing anyone - got squirted by some dumbazz - you'd be dead and it wouldn't even have to be SHTF time ....


Throwing a bottle of vodka should pretty effective, especially if you stick a rag in it and light it first !


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Krystof said:


> Hello all. I used to frequent a "survivalist" forum full of over-armed "shotgun & pickup" types as epitomized in the original "Tremors" film. I thought "preppers" were supposed to be more the under-armed "VW minibus" types. As epitomized in the "Utopia" web series. But--judging by the largely dismissive responses to this pepper spray discussion--it looks like the same narrow-minded gun-huggers rule this forum. Here are my comments and questions.
> 
> * I came here hoping to find people who know more than I do about pepper spray. Instead they seem mostly not knowing and not wanting to learn to the point of taking the time to make inane dismissive comments. Which makes me wonder just how much they know about the guns that they think they know.
> 
> ...


I quit reading this juvenile idiocy around the 59000th paragraph. Stay in school kid. You are not going to learn anything but communism, but it will keep you off of here. :vs_wave:


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Demitri.14 said:


> Throwing a bottle of vodka should pretty effective, especially if you stick a rag in it and light it first !


More effective is to feed it to ex-wife and let her mean-nag the enemy to death.....


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## Krystof (Nov 6, 2020)

p.s. Every good prepper should immediately set up 2 P.A. systems--one for all-inside and one for all-outside the home...... Firstly so you can shout ultimatums to clear out or else.... Secondly so you can don earplugs and then activate ear-shattering sounds.

So to summarize the most promising alternative non-firearm non-regulated non-budgeet-breaking defensive backups in order from most certain to least certain:

For 24/7 carry-with:
1. Second-smallest name-brand gel type pepper spray with dye. Plus a sturdy folding combo-knife. (And sharpener.)
For the home:
2. DIY cayenne spray from 1M scoville powder in water. With cordless power washer or paint sprayer. With double-filter gas mask and gloves. 
3. Double barreled P.A. system. With ear-piercing sound maker. Plus ear protection for yourself and family.
4. Kerosene in jerrycans feeding into long range slide-pump action tree sprayer. And 3+ flare guns.. 

Added notes.

* I DO NOT CLAIM THAT ANY OF THE ABOVE ARE A PROVEN VIABLE OPTION. That is what I am here to find out and to develop. Shared development of shared ideas is what I assume this forum is for. But if nobody is interested then maybe this style of forum is obsolete. If so I will move on--find a Youtube channel centered on someone who is already testing and developing such ideas.

* One subject I neglected: does the fact that everyone now carries anti-covid face masks--and which burglars will probably put on--make ceyenne weapons less effective? I don't know. But there are probably youtubers testing it out.

* It's amazing to me that the police all over the world use pepper spray to subdue crowds...... And there are prepper sites that have studied how to make sure your DIY spray is just as powerful...... but half the people in this forum think it's such utter nonsense as to make ridiculous anyone who mentions the idea.... Whereas for me personally, in a true breakdown of social order, you will be defending your home against gangs armed with AKs and molotovs, not against individuals..... And my father comes from a place where well-off people traditionally live in fortress-like compounds...... But today that just becomes a deathtrap because someone in every crowd has become adept with firebombs.....

Also my neighbor's 18th century house has perhaps the ultimate defense: an escape tunnel from pioneer days......

So what are people thinking who assume that they and their latest wife will single-handedly fend off gangs with their AKs and shotguns....... And do not even want to hear about an unlimited supply of gas or fire or sound......? And the enemy might not even be well armed. It just might be a crowd of desperate starving people. Anyone whose only plan is to mow everyone down--really is just planning to make sure they end up on somebody's s**t list...... Including the local police...... Or whatever style of local militia replaces the local police.....

Not to mention the fact that a total breakdown of society is unlikely to last long. And meanwhile there are already a number of nuanced threats from burglars--to escaped convicts--to a desperate neighbor who got hooked on heroin because his or her doctor gave out oxy prescriptions exactly as labeled by the pharmacy-pressured FDA. And guns, bullets, grenades and RPG's are never exactly cheap or risk-free.

Anyone who refuses to think "outside the box" of the stereotypical survivalist--is statistically much less likely to ever experience the situation they are prepping for--than to find out that they themselves, and their bank balance, and their social alienation, are their own worst enemies.

If you read Hemingway's story, "To Have and Have Not," you may find it is really very close to the stereotypical present-day prepper. A man very skilled with guns and at surviving. The ending goes something like this.

"His final words were the lesson it had taken his entire life to learn. "A man alone ain't got no chance.""


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

This is going to be fun.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

@Krystof 
Like you I try to think "outside the box" and look for other alternatives but as "preppers" we generally prepare for a time without hospitals and the ability to call the police. Chasing a bad guy away with pepper spray may work for a few hours which is ok if you can immediately have the police show up and arrest the guy but most people here prepare in case the police are unable to show up and we must provide our own long term defense against dangerous looters.

As preppers many of us keep a bit of extra food, something likely to attract desperate people if food becomes scarce.

Don't bring pepper spray to a gun fight; you'll never get close enough to use your pepper spray.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Jayhawker said:


> Anyone who knows me knows that I love my firearms. When it comes to self-defense, there really isn't anything better. I wouldn't advise any preppers to plan on not having them in SHTF. But there may be times when lethal force isn't advisable or required. In my group there would likely be people such as my very liberal sister in law and mom who would refuse to use firearms for their own stubborn reasons. There would also be young kids who wouldn't have any firearms experience and be too young to teach. Even if you stockpile lots and lots of bullets, during a long term TEOTWAKI situation bullets may eventually run out. There would also be the real prospect of gun confiscation in a long term civil conflict of any kind. For all these reasons, I think it makes sense to have some kind of nonlethal self-defense tech on hand.
> 
> Anyone who has used bear mace or pepper spray knows that they actually pose a threat to the user. In the wrong wind someone using spray could easily end up disabling their own vision and ability to fight back.
> 
> ...


Interesting topic. I was pretty well trained on continuum of force escalating violence and anything short of lethal that gets the job done works for me. The mailmen carried water pistols full of ammonia back when I was a kid so it not a new idea. Most crappy water guns leak so be careful..also tiny flecks of caynenne pepper can plug up a tight conduit quick. Learned that when I added red pepper to my nasal spray. Two quirts was it. Would venture to point out a big difference in Mace and pepper spray..other than the ingredients. Mace comes out as an aerosol and can get on everybody. Pepper spray comes out as a pencil thin ballisic stream. Stays pretty much where it lands. Recall when they first stated passing out pepper spray..aka Oleo-resin Capsicum to the cops around DFW early to mid 90s. Guys at Hurst got it before us and said.."We aint had to fight anybody since they gave us that stuff." We got it shortly after. Never did squirt a human with it but it dont work worth a caca on dogs.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

I think the hot sauce should be saved for when all the food runs out. It would make the democrats taste much better.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Jayhawker said:


> Anyone who has used bear mace or pepper spray knows that they actually pose a threat to the user. In the wrong wind someone using spray could easily end up disabling their own vision and ability to fight back...
> Water guns are cheap. You can get a decent one for ten bucks. Hot sauce in your eyes is just as disabling as pepper spray.


Yeah, a solid jet of liquid can be aimed with precision and has a longer range than a spray, and the liquid can be anything that makes somebody's eyes water bad.
Many years ago I filled a water pistol with watered-down vinegar to snipe the cheeky kids next door from my snipers nest in bushes and they ran off rubbing their eyes.
I still feel a bit guilty about doing it, but at least I never used full-strength vinegar..

(PS- and I suppose vinegar would also be good at breaking the hold of a pitbull on our leg)


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## TenMileHunter (May 20, 2017)

I’m usually a nice guy but if provoked I quickly turn into the
“Glock Nest Monster “.

TMH 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

TenMileHunter said:


> I'm usually a nice guy but if provoked I quickly turn into the
> "Glock Nest Monster ".
> TMH


Yeah a man's gotta do..
In 'Panic in Year Zero' (1962) Ray Milland shows us how to do it when nuclear war hits the fan, turning from a mild-mannered family man into a born survivor.
Dunno if it's on youtube any more apart from a few clips like this one-


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Eyeball said:


> Yeah a man's gotta do..
> In 'Panic in Year Zero' (1962) Ray Milland shows us how to do it when nuclear war hits the fan, turning from a mild-mannered family man into a born survivor.
> Dunno if it's on youtube any more apart from a few clips like this one-


Great old movie. Demonstrates how panicked people will struggle and fight for resources if they are unprepared.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Here's another great piece of advice for a SHTF situation-


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

Talk about an interesting thread. Let me suggest adding some dishwashing soap to the water to the spray would cling on a surface. Not my idea but something to consider if you were caught in a kitchen without a sidearm.


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