# Thoughts about killing



## Swedishsocialist

I think people of today are more ok with shooting other people then before. 

I have read about survievs from WWII that showed about 10% of the soliders acutally tried to hit the enemy, were many was no ok with killing another human beeing and tried to avoid it. 

Today I think it is diffret, people of today are spoon feed violence from tv were people constntly is beeing shot, and more importantly, sits huge amont of time in fronts of screens and shooting others in videogames. 

This I think make killing others an easier thing to do for lots and lots of people. 

So when shtf in some way or another, people are prepared to kill way more then before, and way to many dont have that many skills that they can survive on - but they are fine with shooting others. 

So when the lights go out, well, there will be blood in a lots of places.


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## James m

This is why we need to elect Hillary Clinton so she can ban all guns.


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## dwight55

Swedishsocialist said:


> I think people of today are more ok with shooting other people then before.
> 
> I have read about survievs from WWII that showed about 10% of the soliders acutally tried to hit the enemy, were many was no ok with killing another human beeing and tried to avoid it. ...............


That must have been the reason the Germans lost the war, . . . and the French got run over before that.

I never heard one American express such sillyness, . . . but I did hear a few of them voice sentiments much to the effect that the sooner they killed em all, . . . the sooner they would get back home, . . . and a whole bunch of them got back home. Musta been a bunch of the other guys who didn't, . . .

And I can safely say I have met hundreds of Vietnam combat troops, . . . none of them shared that sillyness either.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Smitty901

Only those need killen. No apologies if they do things that require it then they ask for it. They have every chance to avoid being killed lay down yurt weapon and go.


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## Swedishsocialist

dwight55 said:


> That must have been the reason the Germans lost the war, . . . and the French got run over before that.
> 
> I never heard one American express such sillyness, . . . but I did hear a few of them voice sentiments much to the effect that the sooner they killed em all, . . . the sooner they would get back home, . . . and a whole bunch of them got back home. Musta been a bunch of the other guys who didn't, . . .
> 
> And I can safely say I have met hundreds of Vietnam combat troops, . . . none of them shared that sillyness either.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


Men Against Fire: How Many Soldiers Actually Fired Their Weapons at the Enemy During the Vietnam War | History Net: Where History Comes Alive ? World & US History Online | From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher

True or false: "Soldiers tend to intentionally fire over the enemy's head, or not to fire at all." - Straight Dope Message Board

http://www.milsf.com/psychology-of-killing/

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/hope_on_the_battlefield

And the germans lost 80% of their soldiers against the russians, not many at all against the us during WWII.


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## AquaHull

Due to the high cost and availability of ammo , I will no longer fire a warning shot.

Yes I have fired warning shots.


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## csi-tech

I agree 100% that video games have desensitized many people to the actual act of taking a life. When I saw my son playing GTA for the first time and his character was bludgeoning a prostitute to death to get his money back I immediately and forever banned that game from my home. All others were vetted for content. Until you have seen a gunshot victim lying on the ground looking through you, the steam rising from the wound, the profuse bleeding coagulating into a thick mass around them and the agonal breathing and expirated blood ejecting with every breath you can't understand. Then knowing that you or your partner did it is pretty rough, even if they needed killing in the worst way. You render your futile efforts to save the life as it slips away, realize it was the only option and move on. It sucks. It sucks even worse to watch your shipmate die in a helicopter crash, then have to wheel him in a body bag to the dead man cooler on the ship. 

There is a very fundamental element to killing and being around death that is de=programmed and replaced by a religious tennet that makes it a just act.......Just like killing a hooker to get your money back.


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## TacticalCanuck

I read those stats before as well. Only about 10% actually fighting. It lead to many tests and studies about why and how to get rid of it. It worked. In Vietnam they had way more soldiers firing to kill.

The American bravado expressed above is what they are taught to do. I'm not knocking American soldiers their bravado or their sacrifice. They are some of the finest bravest men and women on the planet. The techniques devised to make men ok with killing are well documented and available for public consumption. Read the book I have included below to learn about the studies their techniques and the effects. I've read it.

http://www.amazon.ca/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/0316040932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1450305645&sr=8-1&keywords=on+killing+the+psychological+cost+of+learning+to+kill+in+war+and+society

I agree with your sentiments 100%.


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## csi-tech

They soften the blow for Police by saying "Shoot center mass" and "Only shoot until there is no longer a threat". That's liability insulating speech, If I put one of these .45 caliber cannon balls through your engine room you are going to die. I have seen some peripheral shots end up with paralysis or deformity but one through the bread basket is probably going to end the gunfight.


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## Swedishsocialist

csi-tech said:


> They soften the blow for Police by saying "Shoot center mass" and "Only shoot until there is no longer a threat". That's liability insulating speech, If I put one of these .45 caliber cannon balls through your engine room you are going to die. I have seen some peripheral shots end up with paralysis or deformity but one through the bread basket is probably going to end the gunfight.


newspeak/ dehumanisation is one tool that is used to make it easier for the grunts to kill people yes, works kind of everywere, "barley even human"


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## reartinetiller

If and when the time comes, never hesitate. Roy


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## 8301

I don't play video games.


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## Kauboy

There is no evidence that violent media causes violent behavior.
British kids:
Study finds no evidence that violent video games make children aggressive
American kids:
Different study, same conclusion

Unless it happens in the real world, it doesn't have the personality altering impact that too many wish to attach.

The first time ANYONE kills another person, it changes them. (disregarding actual sociopaths)
You may feel the first shot was necessary, but following shots will NEVER feel as easy as the first one was. A soldier has to cope with the fact that he is *expected* to kill someone, and that can plague them before the first shot. Most well-meaning folks are never faced with this reality until after the fact. Even bad folks aren't expecting the aftermath, and most regret their decision to kill.
I do not believe we are raising a society of sociopathic killers.
I look at the evidence, or lack thereof, to any link between fictional violence and actual violence when making my mind up on this. There is a "casual" link AT BEST, and even that is always qualified further to exclude the majority of cases.
When TSHTF, there won't be roaming hordes of bloodthirsty and remorseless people coming for you. The overwhelming majority will be frightened and looking for guidance.

If you want to be scared of a group of people, look for ANYONE acting under the direction of a supposed "authority". Research has shown that people will do just about anything they are told to do when given an order from their superior. I recall a research study that placed a person in a room with a dial and an indicator. They were told to turn the dial up, and when they did, they heard the painful screams of someone being electrically shocked in the adjacent room.
When told to turn it up further, they complied, and the screams got louder, followed by cries to stop. When instructed to go beyond the previously instructed "safe" point, which would be considered a lethal shock, they STILL DID IT! The screams from the other room were horrendous, and then silent.
Believing they had killed the person, each of them would break down.
When asked why they followed orders to kill another person, they all responded the same. They felt the person telling them to do so was an authority figure, and they assumed they could not be held responsible.
Very few refused the final instruction.
That should scare the life out of you.

In the end, the person in the other room was an actor and the screams were pre-recorded.
A very telling psychological experiment: The Milgram experiment


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## Chipper

With the population increase since WW2 there will be a lot more targets. Plus now we all have AR's and 17 shot pistols. Not revolvers, lever actions or 5 shot surplus WW1 bolt guns.

One has to remember back in the 20's and 30's when the people that fought WW2 grew up. Most didn't have electricity let alone a TV to get brainwashed to kill. Plus religion was a larger part of their upbringing so they respected life. So your not really comparing apples to apples. How can you compare a 18 year old boy in 1941 to the POS punks that are being brought up in our cities.


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## Swedishsocialist

Kauboy said:


> There is no evidence that violent media causes violent behavior.
> British kids:
> Study finds no evidence that violent video games make children aggressive
> American kids:
> Different study, same conclusion
> 
> Unless it happens in the real world, it doesn't have the personality altering impact that too many wish to attach.
> 
> The first time ANYONE kills another person, it changes them. (disregarding actual sociopaths)
> You may feel the first shot was necessary, but following shots will NEVER feel as easy as the first one was. A soldier has to cope with the fact that he is *expected* to kill someone, and that can plague them before the first shot. Most well-meaning folks are never faced with this reality until after the fact. Even bad folks aren't expecting the aftermath, and most regret their decision to kill.
> I do not believe we are raising a society of sociopathic killers.
> I look at the evidence, or lack thereof, to any link between fictional violence and actual violence when making my mind up on this. There is a "casual" link AT BEST, and even that is always qualified further to exclude the majority of cases.
> When TSHTF, there won't be roaming hordes of bloodthirsty and remorseless people coming for you. The overwhelming majority will be frightened and looking for guidance.
> 
> If you want to be scared of a group of people, look for ANYONE acting under the direction of a supposed "authority". Research has shown that people will do just about anything they are told to do when given an order from their superior. I recall a research study that placed a person in a room with a dial and an indicator. They were told to turn the dial up, and when they did, they heard the painful screams of someone being electrically shocked in the adjacent room.
> When told to turn it up further, they complied, and the screams got louder, followed by cries to stop. When instructed to go beyond the previously instructed "safe" point, which would be considered a lethal shock, they STILL DID IT! The screams from the other room were horrendous, and then silent.
> Believing they had killed the person, each of them would break down.
> When asked why they followed orders to kill another person, they all responded the same. They felt the person telling them to do so was an authority figure, and they assumed they could not be held responsible.
> Very few refused the final instruction.
> That should scare the life out of you.
> 
> In the end, the person in the other room was an actor and the screams were pre-recorded.
> A very telling psychological experiment: The Milgram experiment


the studies showed that the kids did not become more agressive. Im ok with that. My thoughts were more that they would be more ok with acutally shooting someone after have shot a never ending number of people on the screen, I think it might be easier for a lot of people to pull the trigger IRL.


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## Yeti-2015

I'm at that age where I played violent games most of my life, and I dont feel like that made me more desensitise to violence. I was tought at a young age what the differnce was between tv, games and real life. I have personally never seen anyone die from a bullet wound or ever had to use a gun in self defense. I hope that I never have have to, but if its my life or my families life and someone else I have no doubt that I could. It would probably suck afterwards.


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## ReignMan

I think it really depends on the circumstances. While I would in no way ever look forward to killing someone, if said someone was threatening my family ... well, I would not hesitate to end them with extreme prejudice. And frankly, I wouldn't feel sorry about it in the least. The day I had to bury one of my children or my wife because I didn't do everything in my power to defend them is the day I could no longer call myself a man, a husband, or a father.


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## Urinal Cake

Swedishsocialist said:


> I think people of today are more ok with shooting other people then before.
> 
> I have read about survievs from WWII that showed about 10% of the soliders acutally tried to hit the enemy, were many was no ok with killing another human beeing and tried to avoid it.


That my friend is total bullsh!t!
They fought just as hard as we did and were extremely brutal about it. The U.S. overwhelmed them with our (Not Sweden) manufacturing capabilities and their lack of fuel to run their war machine....Technologically they were way ahead of us.


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## SOCOM42

SS quote;

"And the germans lost 80% of their soldiers against the russians, not many at all against the us during WWII.'

This was due to several reasons, the Russian were fighting a war of extermination and the huge masses of troops involved.

These battles occurred mostly before the US engaged in the second front in June of 44.

Butchery on an industrial scale occurred in places like Kursk 1943, Leningrad 1943, Stalingrad 1942, roughly five million were lost in these three battles alone.

The US did not fight a war of extermination against Germany like they did the japs.

The japs brought extermination upon themselves, the atrocities committed by them against civilians and combat troops, steeled the fighters 

to exterminate them. 

Those in combat in the Pacific weren't relegated to that 10% number, The US Marines would take offense with that accusation.

I can tell you of one engagement where 100% of those on the line fired to kill those yellow bastards, the USMC battle of the Tenaru.

I can also point out a major operation that held the same, Merrill's Marauders in China-Burma.

The European War was fought with white man's values and rules of engagement, the kill ratio of numbers engaged to deaths was a lot different than in 

the Pacific where the norm was no quarter asked or given to those little yellow bastards.

You can bet your ass that all the gunners on the American bombers did their job.

As far as killing here in defense of self and family, I have no qualms, It will be done if needed.


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## rice paddy daddy

TacticalCanuck said:


> The techniques devised to make men ok with killing are well documented and available for public consumption.


I have no experience with modern training methods, but I can say that those employed by the US Army in the late 1960's was geared toward producing men able to kill.
In 1992 I attended a symposium on PTSD and the effects of war where the featured speaker was the author of the book you linked to. He was not famous at the time.


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## Slippy

Dear Lord My Savior, I pray that I do not have to use my weapon today. But if I have to, I pray my aim is true.


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## Smitty901

What has changed is how we value life as a whole. Many openly support the killing of an unborn child at any stage for any reason. Many have been killed because some one was unsure of the health of that child, because they would just be a problem to some one. We then began turning a blind eye to doctors kill babies already born because they may not have a quality life. After some years of that we started to discount the old. To a point where even the president of the country said give grandma a pill and send her home...to die.
To judge weather a person should live or die is based on another's view of what is a quality life. That view is a justified greed.
We have brought this on our self. The lives taken in the streets everyday are taken by a generation raised with no value for life. 100% selfishness is the rule of the day. When we discount the life of those that need us the most the rest have no chance.
To take a life is not a joke, not the subject of punch lines. It is some times a necessary task. Even the trained are not always ready for it.
A soldier kills because they believe in the cause they serve . To much exposure to killing can make some unstable. It is a leaders task to see that coming and remove them. Sadly not all leaders live up to their calling. No one values life more than the LEO, the Soldier that puts theirs between you and evil. 
Want to see the killing reduced place real value back on life.


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## Maine-Marine

Swedishsocialist said:


> And the germans lost 80% of their soldiers against the russians, not many at all against the us during WWII.


You realize that the germans and russia were at war longer then the US and Germany... and they had some of the worse fighting...


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## Doc Holliday

I dont know about everyone else but if someone is trying to take my life then you can bet your @55 that I will be trying to take theirs instead... My signature line reads the gun owners prayer..

"Lord, make me fast and accurate, let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who seek to destroy me, grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine, let not my last thought be - 'If I only had my gun'- and Lord if today is truly the day you call me home, let me die in a pile of warm brass,
Amen"


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## rice paddy daddy

Smitty901 said:


> What has changed is how we value life as a whole. Many openly support the killing of an unborn child at any stage for any reason. Many have been killed because some one was unsure of the health of that child, because they would just be a problem to some one. We then began turning a blind eye to doctors kill babies already born because they may not have a quality life. After some years of that we started to discount the old. To a point where even the president of the country said give grandma a pill and send her home...to die.
> To judge weather a person should live or die is based on another's view of what is a quality life. That view is a justified greed.
> We have brought this on our self. The lives taken in the streets everyday are taken by a generation raised with no value for life. 100% selfishness is the rule of the day. When we discount the life of those that need us the most the rest have no chance.
> To take a life is not a joke, not the subject of punch lines. It is some times a necessary task. Even the trained are not always ready for it.
> A soldier kills because they believe in the cause they serve . To much exposure to killing can make some unstable. It is a leaders task to see that coming and remove them. Sadly not all leaders live up to their calling. No one values life more than the LEO, the Soldier that puts theirs between you and evil.
> Want to see the killing reduced place real value back on life.


Right on, Smitty!!


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## TacticalCanuck

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have no experience with modern training methods, but I can say that those employed by the US Army in the late 1960's was geared toward producing men able to kill.
> In 1992 I attended a symposium on PTSD and the effects of war where the featured speaker was the author of the book you linked to. He was not famous at the time.


I believe the techniques were refined and in practice for that era. He refers alot to vietnam and ww2 and the changes made between them leading to a higher rate of men that fire to kill for the vietnam war.

It really is akin to brainwashing. He tries to be unbiased but he leans towards it being wrong and he really wants to fix it and help those effected by it.


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## shootbrownelk

James m said:


> This is why we need to elect Hillary Clinton so she can ban all guns.


 Yeah...Hilabeast...that way the only blood spilled will be from folks who disagree with her. At this point, what difference does it make?


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## Mozingo

James m said:


> This is why we need to elect Hillary Clinton so she can ban all guns.


This is the most ignorant thing I have read today


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## Quietsurvivalist

You do understand Grossman has good idea but no data to back it concearning the violent video games and desensitization of youth.

What there is evidence of is statistically there are more people on mind altering substances which have side effects of violent behavior.

But socialists don't want to know that, it doesn't fit in their agenda

Personally, Ive never had issues with the whole topic, but unlike most who drink the kool aid I have a post grad degree in Psychology , which beets a socialist in Sweden trying to make political strife in America


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## Salt-N-Pepper

Swedishsocialist said:


> I think people of today are more ok with shooting other people then before.


You need to read more history if you think this is true.

It's not.


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## DadofTheFamily

Those who served in the modern military know the psychological conditioning for killing. People who have grown up in a culture of violence are conditioned by exposure to killing. IMO, the average "unacquainted" person today will have a hard time killing. Easier said than done. Sometimes the hardest thing is living with yourself after it's all over.


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## Quietsurvivalist

Sleep the "sleep of the just" here

No issues at all in fact, except I missed a bunch apparently


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## Kauboy

Mozingo said:


> This is the most ignorant thing I have read today


That's just James. You hang around long enough, you learn to insert your own "/sarcasm" tags into his posts.


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## Salt-N-Pepper

This is in response to the following quote: _Quote Originally Posted by Swedishsocialist: And the Germans lost 80% of their soldiers against the Russians, not many at all against the us during WWII._



Maine-Marine said:


> You realize that the germans and russia were at war longer then the US and Germany... and they had some of the worse fighting...


Maine-Marine, exactly right. By the time that the United States invaded (D-Day) the siege of Leningrad (September 1941-January 1944) had been over half of a year, Stalingrad (August 1942-February 1943) had been over nearly a year-and-a-half, and the USSR had been at war with Germany fighting it out to the death for FOUR full years before we hit the beaches at Normandy.

When we landed, the USSR had fought hundreds of bloody battles including Kursk (July-August 1943) and had driven the Germans back all the way into Germany and East Prussia by then...

We (the US & Great Britain) didn't beat the Germans in WWII, the Soviets did. We did help, A LOT, via our invasions of North Africa, Italy, D-Day and with the staggering amount of war materials we sent them, but make no doubt about it, they did nearly all of the fighting... in the west, we tend to give ourselves the spotlight like we actually won the war... we didn't, the Soviets did and we were very helpful.

Now, in the Pacific, the US won the war with a bit of help from the British empire... but that was our show.

Sweedishsocialist, would you like to compare the number of Japanese killed in WWII by the USA vs the number killed by the UK or Australia? You will find that most of them were killed by us. This argument uses the same logic that you are using in your question.


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## csi-tech

Some things that have crossed my mind since Trump started saying "Ban all of the Muslims!". We can't do that. As easy as it sounds it's just not part of our ethos. I am fine with more extensive vetting of military aged men and women but make it across the board, just not with Muslims. Place a moratorium on acceptance and filter refugees through some of these abandoned military bases, barracks and useless FEMA camps until they have been thoroughly vetted (including social media for God's sake!), inoculated and indoctrinated. They should be given temporary, conditional Visas requiring a return to their country of origin upon cessation of hostilities. If they decide to climb the mountain, learn our ways and language, embrace our culture, take the required citizenship courses and denounce their prior allegiances and embrace America, they should become citizens of the United States with all of the rights and privileges I enjoy. 

I don't recall reading: "Give me your weak, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free........Except them Muslims, You keep all of them, we don't trust them."

Americans are collectively afraid, I understand that. The Police are under constant fire today and having to hire thugs and crooks to fill their ranks. The good Cops are leaving in droves because it just doesn't make sense to take that oath anymore. Good people can get better paying jobs in the private sector with better benefits, Do I still consider it an honorable and noble profession? You bet. Am I alone in that sentiment? Looks more like it with each passing day, It's just all I know and I'm too old to change.

Americans are going to have to take up arms and defend themselves now. It is the new normal. It's not the Muslims that are after us. We should just drop the religious implications like we do for criminals. I don't give two s%^s why someone is trying to kill me, I just know they are trying to kill me. Does anyone really want to delve into the mind of a Dahmer, a Geen, a Gayce or a Manson? I don't, I just want them eliminated. Same with terrorists.

Everyone needs to prepare themselves to take a life.


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## bigwheel

DadofTheFamily said:


> Those who served in the modern military know the psychological conditioning for killing. People who have grown up in a culture of violence are conditioned by exposure to killing. IMO, the average "unacquainted" person today will have a hard time killing. Easier said than done. Sometimes the hardest thing is living with yourself after it's all over.


Hear you on that. No military experience on this end but around forty years as a cop..it does seem to boil down to psychological conditioning..training..muscle memory if you will. When the targets turn and presents a threat the training takes over..its like going on autopilot. When the real deal shows up...everything goes into slow motion and Mr. Gun starts barking.


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## Quietsurvivalist

Yes we can do it

We did it in WWII, no german or Japenese immigrants

We did it until 1974, lock the number of visas and list countries of origin as a source terrorism country

Its every bit of ok, and legal. Too many think we are the saviors of the world. We are not, we are killing our childrens future and those words came from DD Eisenhower when he rounded up 1 million illegals and threw them out in 1959

We need to stop paraphrasing history here. Ellis Island sent more back than admitted into the country. Time to wake up and get the real history of Immigration to this country. The Immigrant had to prove they were usefull to the US, not the other way around. 

Liberal thought is infiltrating you all if you think locking out specific groups has never happened. There is a lot of precedent Doesn't require a special visa, money to round them up later. Nancy Reagan bless her heart said it best. JUST SAY NO!!!


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## bigwheel

Looks like the muzzie immigrants in Sweden are trying to thin out the homos. We might better let the Socialist Swede know about this.

Sweden: Muslim Migrants Batter Gay Man to Death, Wrap Snake Around His Neck » Infowars Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


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## M118LR

This is one of those I'll just quote the qualification manual moments.
FM 23-10 1-4 "The sniper must be able to calmly and deliberately kill targets that may not pose an immediate threat to him. It is much easier to to kill in self-defense or the defense of others than it is to kill without apparent provocation." 
Now all Ya'll have to do is learn to sleep well with this. JMHO.


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## bigwheel

Right. Snipers are special. Think "without apparent provocation" might be the key phrase. Nearly sure they don't kill folks for fun. Any variant of killing is not prone to producing a good nights sleep..for normal folks anyway. Dig deep and find the provocation.


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## M118LR

bigwheel said:


> Right. Snipers are special. Think "without apparent provocation" might be the key phrase. Nearly sure they don't kill folks for fun. Any variant of killing is not prone to producing a good nights sleep..for normal folks anyway. Dig deep and find the provocation.


For God, For Country, So that the Folk's Back HOME don't have to, and because one must have the discipline to follow orders before they can become worthy of giving Life & Death Orders. JMHO.

Not quite sure special is the proper term, calloused or taciturn might be more descriptive. JMHO.


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## bigwheel

Great descriptive adjectives in my book. Thanks.


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## Kauboy

csi-tech said:


> Some things that have crossed my mind since Trump started saying "Ban all of the Muslims!". We can't do that. As easy as it sounds it's just not part of our ethos. I am fine with more extensive vetting of military aged men and women but make it across the board, just not with Muslims. Place a moratorium on acceptance and filter refugees through some of these abandoned military bases, barracks and useless FEMA camps until they have been thoroughly vetted (including social media for God's sake!), inoculated and indoctrinated. They should be given temporary, conditional Visas requiring a return to their country of origin upon cessation of hostilities. If they decide to climb the mountain, learn our ways and language, embrace our culture, take the required citizenship courses and denounce their prior allegiances and embrace America, they should become citizens of the United States with all of the rights and privileges I enjoy.
> 
> I don't recall reading: "Give me your weak, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free........Except them Muslims, You keep all of them, we don't trust them."
> 
> Americans are collectively afraid, I understand that. The Police are under constant fire today and having to hire thugs and crooks to fill their ranks. The good Cops are leaving in droves because it just doesn't make sense to take that oath anymore. Good people can get better paying jobs in the private sector with better benefits, Do I still consider it an honorable and noble profession? You bet. Am I alone in that sentiment? Looks more like it with each passing day, It's just all I know and I'm too old to change.
> 
> Americans are going to have to take up arms and defend themselves now. It is the new normal. It's not the Muslims that are after us. We should just drop the religious implications like we do for criminals. I don't give two s%^s why someone is trying to kill me, I just know they are trying to kill me. Does anyone really want to delve into the mind of a Dahmer, a Geen, a Gayce or a Manson? I don't, I just want them eliminated. Same with terrorists.
> 
> Everyone needs to prepare themselves to take a life.


CSI, Trump didn't declare that we ban all Muslims.
He proposed a temporary moratorium on allowing them into this country until out policy makers can get a better understanding of what we are dealing with.
I think we used to call that "doing our own due diligence".
It's right in line with what you're suggesting, but with a hiatus at the outset to "reset" the board.
However, the visa process is currently horribly flawed, and the people we allow in can go missing with relative ease. That's a big problem. Until we can address these kinds of things, I think it is prudent to deny entry from any country with open hostilities to the US.


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## csi-tech

Being a counter-sniper for 6 years It never occurred to me that if I pulled the trigger that action would not save an innocent life. It was just mechanical. "You have a green light to engage the target." On a sniper initiated assault: Stand by, Stand by, Stand BOOM.At the end of the evolution all I cared to hear was "All Eagles up." I never wanted to do it and If anyone looks forward to it they need to find a new job. Shooting a human is not the same as shooting my favorite golf balls at 100 yards, but if you were some asshole taking hostages, or an active shooter, you had Titleist written all over your forehead.


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## csi-tech

Kauboy my like button disappeared. I thought he originally did say ban them all and later backtracked. In any case that;s fine by me and please, accept my "Like"


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## M118LR

csi-tech said:


> Being a counter-sniper for 6 years It never occurred to me that if I pulled the trigger that action would not save an innocent life. It was just mechanical. "You have a green light to engage the target." On a sniper initiated assault: Stand by, Stand by, Stand BOOM.At the end of the evolution all I cared to hear was "All Eagles up." I never wanted to do it and If anyone looks forward to it they need to find a new job. Shooting a human is not the same as shooting my favorite golf balls at 100 yards, but if you were some asshole taking hostages, or an active shooter, you had Titleist written all over your forehead.


I never had a problem when authorized to break the trigger csi-tech. The things that haunt my night's are when I was told to stand down.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Quietsurvivalist said:


> Yes we can do it
> 
> We did it in WWII, no german or Japenese immigrants


Well, yes, and we also destroyed the lives of 120,000 people by illegally stripping them of their homes, businesses and livelihoods and shipping them off into concentration camps, including a LOT of American citizens born right here in the USA...

Let's also not forget the MS St. Louis, either... Jews who we refused to let enter the country in 1939, many of whom ended up in Hitler's death camps.

Perhaps using that era of immigration isn't the best examples of our better nature... we didn't just shut down Germans and Japanese during 41-44, we pretty much shut down EVERYBODY, no matter if they were escaping from death camps or not.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Kauboy said:


> CSI, Trump didn't declare that we ban all Muslims.
> He proposed a temporary moratorium on allowing them into this country until out policy makers can get a better understanding of what we are dealing with.
> I think we used to call that "doing our own due diligence".
> It's right in line with what you're suggesting, but with a hiatus at the outset to "reset" the board.
> However, the visa process is currently horribly flawed, and the people we allow in can go missing with relative ease. That's a big problem. Until we can address these kinds of things, I think it is prudent to deny entry from any country with open hostilities to the US.


I can't believe anybody takes a word that idiot Trump says seriously. I mean, this is the guy that gave us such intellectual gems as "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes every day..." and of course that great foreign policy position statement of I do know what to do, and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table or, beyond that, defeat ISIS very quickly,and I'm not gonna tell you what it is tonight." I guess he learned from Nixon's fictitious secret plan to end the Vietnam war.


----------



## Slippy

I'm telling you people STOP all from entering the USA for approximately 10 years...that means everyone...legal, illegal, visa's etc, nobody gets in. 

If you are a citizen and out of country, by all means you can return anytime. But no one else. Build the wall, patrol the border, nobody gets in on foot or by plane, by boat, tunnel or by parachute. 

When an illegal is discovered they are shipped out, when a person is discovered who is overstaying a visa, ship them out. Many ills will be cured by this plan. This, I shit you not.


----------



## bigwheel

Haters will hate. That's what they do.


----------



## Quietsurvivalist

I been saying that since I started working this border Slippy


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Slippy said:


> I'm telling you people STOP all from entering the USA for approximately 10 years...that means everyone...legal, illegal, visa's etc, nobody gets in.
> 
> If you are a citizen and out of country, by all means you can return anytime. But no one else. Build the wall, patrol the border, nobody gets in on foot or by plane, by boat, tunnel or by parachute.
> 
> When an illegal is discovered they are shipped out, when a person is discovered who is overstaying a visa, ship them out. Many ills will be cured by this plan. This, I shit you not.


I suspect you don't work in the travel industry... or cruise industry... or hospitality industry... or you don't work in a port where, you know, foreign ships enter every day to discharge cargo...


----------



## Gunner's Mate

I have some expertise here, I have killed about 608140 beers +/- to date about 57,000 gallons of beer about 1/5 of an olympic size swimming pool


----------



## Slippy

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I suspect you don't work in the travel industry... or cruise industry... or hospitality industry... or you don't work in a port where, you know, foreign ships enter every day to discharge cargo...


You bring up an excellent point Salty, that's why we need increased tariffs. In a Slippy Administration other countries will pay dearly to send their goods to the US. If they don't then it gives us an opportunity to produce them here like we used to.

Regardless, Ports should be secured. No entry from foreign nationals outside the gates of the port.

Regarding tourism, If a cruise ship stops at a port to do whatever they do, the people without US Passports stay on the ship. Simple. I would guess that most cruise ships originate in the US and go to other countries for the most part.

As far as I'm concerned, if the hospitality industry is hurt, we can make it up with manufacturing as my tariffs will certainly reduce a lot of the chicom crap that comes over and we'll need to make more of our own.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Slippy said:


> You bring up an excellent point Salty, that's why we need increased tariffs. In a Slippy Administration other countries will pay dearly to send their goods to the US. If they don't then it gives us an opportunity to produce them here like we used to.
> 
> Regardless, Ports should be secured. No entry from foreign nationals outside the gates of the port.
> 
> Regarding tourism, If a cruise ship stops at a port to do whatever they do, the people without US Passports stay on the ship. Simple. I would guess that most cruise ships originate in the US and go to other countries for the most part.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, if the hospitality industry is hurt, we can make it up with manufacturing as my tariffs will certainly reduce a lot of the chicom crap that comes over and we'll need to make more of our own.


You do realize that other countries would block access to American citizens in retaliation, right? We would basically be unable to travel anywhere in the world because of Slippy's policy...

We would, basically, be North Korea.

You would be Slippy Jung Il, glorious leader for life? Instead of borders we would have DMZ's. Minefields. We would build a new wall all the way around all of the great lakes, there would need to be a wall the entire coast of all the great lakes (else you could hop in a boat in Canada and just motor across the lake into the US and tie up at Sturgeon bay... can't have that, we would have to have a 20 foot high wall along every inch of sea shore inland....

I'll pass on your vision of paradise, my good man...


----------



## Kauboy

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I can't believe anybody takes a word that idiot Trump says seriously. I mean, this is the guy that gave us such intellectual gems as "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes every day..." and of course that great foreign policy position statement of I do know what to do, and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table or, beyond that, defeat ISIS very quickly,and I'm not gonna tell you what it is tonight." I guess he learned from Nixon's fictitious secret plan to end the Vietnam war.


I'm a bit perplexed as to why you lambaste someone for taking seriously his words, and then turn around and take his words seriously as support for such a position.
His positions on key matters resonate with a lot of people who've borne witness to the ineptitude of this current administration, their negotiations to pay terrorists, and their complete dismissal of our immigration law. From Trump, they hear a strong message that puts our country's interests first. To some, it's reminiscent of a proud past, to others, they've never heard such a message, and find it inspiring.
I don't care if you don't care for him as a person. Lord knows we've had detestable people in that office. But how good of a LEADER is he? Does he take advice when he should, can he make the tough decisions, can he look a foreign power in they eye and command respect without saying a word?
Some think he can.
As for me, the jury is still out.


----------



## jim-henscheli

About the killing, very few people taking life, no one wants theres taken, and they will take life to preserve their own, its a practical choice. why are we so numb to killing? I do not suppose it has anything to do with an establishment, fighting and nail to convince us its not killing, no, it was unviable. its not murder if its a fetus! come on, how can you not support a womans right to facilitate mur- I mean, get a breast exam at planned parent hood, thats all they do there...wait..


----------



## Quietsurvivalist

"
We would, basically, be North Korea."

Ahh that's so wrong I cant believe you posted it.

North Korea doesn't have the consumer economy we do, and countries stomp each other to market their goods here. 

Heres the reality of your post, freeze imports from countries sympathetic to Islam and watch how fast THEY starve. Saudi Arabia for example. They need to eat more than we need their oil. 

Want to make a difference, stop funding them, stop feeding them and stop bowing to them.


----------



## Kauboy

Kauboy said:


> However, the visa process is currently horribly flawed, and the people we allow in can go missing with relative ease. That's a big problem. Until we can address these kinds of things, I think it is prudent to deny entry from any country with open hostilities to the US.


Man, I'm on a roll. Twice now, in two days, I've made a statement here, and the next day had a new article proving it.
Missing foreigners with revoked visas due to terror threats
I don't like being proven right on such topics, but there it is. :chargrined:


----------



## Carp614

On Killing:
In the service I had the good fortune of being deployed when it was quiet. But there is not question in my mind about what I would do when I was patrolling dark empty warehouses pierside in Kuwait. 

That said, I was involved in an accidental death a month after I got out of the service that had a profoundly negative impact on my life. I still see his broken body in my nightmares. 

I will take a life if there is absolutely no other way to protest myself or my family, but only if there is not other way.


----------



## Quietsurvivalist

As long as you are hesitating when dealing with another who has already decided, you loose.

Violence is the first option, last choice for the professional. Anything else and you are behind the OODA loop. Waiting to decide if they are "really" going to kill you and yours is too late.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Kauboy said:


> I'm a bit perplexed as to why you lambaste someone for taking seriously his words, and then turn around and take his words seriously as support for such a position.
> His positions on key matters resonate with a lot of people who've borne witness to the ineptitude of this current administration, their negotiations to pay terrorists, and their complete dismissal of our immigration law. From Trump, they hear a strong message that puts our country's interests first. To some, it's reminiscent of a proud past, to others, they've never heard such a message, and find it inspiring.
> I don't care if you don't care for him as a person. Lord knows we've had detestable people in that office. But how good of a LEADER is he? Does he take advice when he should, can he make the tough decisions, can he look a foreign power in they eye and command respect without saying a word?
> Some think he can.
> As for me, the jury is still out.


I take no words Donald Trump says seriously, I apologize to you if it seemed that way or if I implied that I did. I would rather eat bugs than take a word that man says seriously. A stopped clock is right twice a day, but that doesn't mean I point to it as an accurate source.

Donald Trump is the PT Barnum of politics, and I don't mean that as a compliment.

He has nearly as much credibility for accuracy as The Onion. No, he's not even CLOSE to being as accurate as The Onion.

Supporting Donald Trump is absolutely the best way to insure that Hilary Clinton is the next President of the United States, because he is entirely un-electable.


----------



## CWOLDOJAX

One can go to the library and collect several books that feed a certain "bent" one has and get affirmation on any topic.

On the topic of killing, I suggest you stand close to a dying relative and hold their hand. 
Pick up pieces of someone who accidentally walked through an aircraft propeller. 
debrief a sailor who just returned from sifting through the rubble at the OKC bombing recovering pacifiers, school papers, and maybe someones lunch ... after they barfed it... maybe.
and then let a bad guy with a gun run by you, as you discover a badly beaten woman, unconscious, by a dumpster... your high school art teacher.

Then read Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's "On Combat."

Finally, go look in the mirror and ask yourself and honest question... While looking at the man in the mirror, "Do I know what evil is and what am I willing to do about it?" 

If you don't know how to define evil YOU are a problem to everyone who loves you.


----------



## Kauboy

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I take no words Donald Trump says seriously, I apologize to you if it seemed that way or if I implied that I did. I would rather eat bugs than take a word that man says seriously. A stopped clock is right twice a day, but that doesn't mean I point to it as an accurate source.
> 
> Donald Trump is the PT Barnum of politics, and I don't mean that as a compliment.
> 
> He has nearly as much credibility for accuracy as The Onion. No, he's not even CLOSE to being as accurate as The Onion.
> 
> Supporting Donald Trump is absolutely the best way to insure that Hilary Clinton is the next President of the United States, because he is entirely un-electable.


Trump is an easy target. He takes the jabs, and shrugs them off. Obama took offense when people commented on his ears and Hillary doesn't like the word "cankles".
I'll take a thick skin over a sappy wuss any day.

That said, it's no difficult task to attack Trump. So, who's your choice?


----------



## RedLion

In my time in the Army and in Iraq, I never personally killed any enemies. My tank certainly did during GWI, I had a hold on an Iraqi in Southern Iraq during GWI while my LT talked with him about touching ordinance on the side of the road by our checkpoint and I fired to suppress during Iraqi Freedom during convoys. With that said, I know that I can shoot to kill if it was required.


----------



## csi-tech

I know whenever the shooting starts and I go into full pucker factor the gun is up and ready and I never remember how it got there.


----------



## shootbrownelk

Mozingo said:


> This is the most ignorant thing I have read today


I think it was meant tongue in cheek with a liberal dose of sarcasm.


----------



## csi-tech

CWOLDOJAX said:


> One can go to the library and collect several books that feed a certain "bent" one has and get affirmation on any topic.
> 
> On the topic of killing, I suggest you stand close to a dying relative and hold their hand.
> Pick up pieces of someone who accidentally walked through an aircraft propeller.
> debrief a sailor who just returned from sifting through the rubble at the OKC bombing recovering pacifiers, school papers, and maybe someones lunch ... after they barfed it... maybe.
> and then let a bad guy with a gun run by you, as you discover a badly beaten woman, unconscious, by a dumpster... your high school art teacher.
> 
> Then read Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's "On Combat."
> 
> Finally, go look in the mirror and ask yourself and honest question... While looking at the man in the mirror, "Do I know what evil is and what am I willing to do about it?"
> 
> If you don't know how to define evil YOU are a problem to everyone who loves you.


I was on a fueling station on a flat top as we were short handed and I watched a new guy grab a fuel nozzle and start pulling the hose towards a Huey. Head looking down at the padeyes as he pulled the hose straight towards tail rotor. Completely oblivoious. I grabed the hosereel and stopped it. He flipped square on his back looking at the sky. I got a letter of commendation he got reassigned to X division pushing papers. It can happen. Keep yout head on a swivel means just that!


----------



## csi-tech

The old saying went something like: "Flight quarters, Flight quarters, all hands man your flight quarters stations beware of jet blast, beware of rotors check chocks, chains tiedowns...Muster on the bow for a FOD walkdown." He didn't pay attention evidently.


----------



## James m

Wow 7 pages. Who could have predicted that??


----------



## M118LR

csi-tech said:


> The old saying went something like: "Flight quarters, Flight quarters, all hands man your flight quarters stations beware of jet blast, beware of rotors check chocks, chains tiedowns...Muster on the bow for a FOD walkdown." He didn't pay attention evidently.


I remember something like: Sweepers,Sweepers, man your broom? Ready on the right, ready on the left, ready on the firing line? But the "Old saying" that ring's with the most clarity is "Trust Me with Your Life, not Your money or your wife!" :lol:


----------



## BuckB

Swedishsocialist said:


> newspeak/ dehumanisation is one tool that is used to make it easier for the grunts to kill people yes, works kind of everywere, "barley even human"


I hear tell you got some real pretty women over there is Sweeden. Do you sell them? If so, how much?


----------



## Swedishsocialist

BuckB said:


> I hear tell you got some real pretty women over there is Sweeden. Do you sell them? If so, how much?


yes and no. We are free and they do as they like. You dont tell a swede what to do no matter the gender.


----------



## Gunner's Mate

well to kill the village idiot you may need to kill the whole the village, thats why we the USA have B 52s 
Carpet bombing may not be Poltically correct but it is effective


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six.


----------



## Swedishsocialist

Gunner's Mate said:


> well to kill the village idiot you may need to kill the whole the village, thats why we the USA have B 52s
> Carpet bombing may not be Poltically correct but it is effective


Effective in that its really motivates the enemy to fight on no matter what. You really never learn do you?

And speaking of willage idiots


----------



## dwight55

Gunner's Mate said:


> well to kill the village idiot you may need to kill the whole the village, thats why we the USA have B 52s
> Carpet bombing may not be Poltically correct but it is effective


And, . . . as well, . . . 16 inch guns from a BB can ruin the whole day for the house, . . . compound, . . . village, . . . even the whole dang city.

AND, . . . when it's over, . . . snipers don't usually try to sneak out of their hut and try to ambush the BB as it is patrolling away.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## rice paddy daddy

dwight55 said:


> And, . . . as well, . . . 16 inch guns from a BB can ruin the whole day for the house, . . . compound, . . . village, . . . even the whole dang city.
> 
> AND, . . . when it's over, . . . snipers don't usually try to sneak out of their hut and try to ambush the BB as it is patrolling away.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


USS New Jersey. Stationed on the Gun Line off the Vietnam DMZ.
GET SOME !!!!!!!

Left in '69, but the Destroyers were still there with their 5 inch guns.
As it was said of Destroyers in another war, when the small ships closed to within point blank range to eliminate German bunkers on Omaha Beach, June 6, 1944, "Thank God for the United States Navy!" Major General Leonard Gerow, US Army, in his first message back to Gen Bradley after landing on Omaha.


----------



## Operator6

Swedishsocialist said:


> Effective in that its really motivates the enemy to fight on no matter what. You really never learn do you?
> 
> And speaking of willage idiots
> o]


How motivated were the Japanese after Nagasaki and Hiroshima ?


----------



## stevekozak

Swedishsocialist said:


> Effective in that its really motivates the enemy to fight on no matter what. You really never learn do you?
> 
> And speaking of willage idiots


I was going to post a thoughtful response to the original post, but now all I can say is, after watching that video, I am defenitely capable of killing someone.


----------



## gambit

stevekozak said:


> I was going to post a thoughtful response to the original post, but now all I can say is, after watching that video, I am defenitely capable of killing someone.


that nasty thing looks like she walks the streets at night or day time and fine a guy to take into a dark area and clean a pipe
that thing should be destroyed in my opinion she is not a mother or even a sick dying animal and her comment about not regretting anything she just did is proof enough 
I'm right or wrong or likely mentally ill I stand by my opinion


----------



## BuckB

Swedishsocialist said:


> You dont tell a swede what to do no matter the gender.


Except when your government tells you to pay over 50% of your income in taxes, plus adds a 25% value added tax on top of that. Those are demands Swedes are happy to obey.


----------



## Denton

And, here is a fine way the Swedish government is spending some of the money...

Why is the Swedish government training Muslim invaders, posing as ?refugees,? to be snipers? - Walid Shoebat


----------



## Gunner's Mate

dwight55 said:


> And, . . . as well, . . . 16 inch guns from a BB can ruin the whole day for the house, . . . compound, . . . village, . . . even the whole dang city.
> 
> AND, . . . when it's over, . . . snipers don't usually try to sneak out of their hut and try to ambush the BB as it is patrolling away.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


somebody is going to kiss the donkey


----------



## MisterMills357

I believe that you are right and I believe there is a blood lust in society; I think that there are people who would relish a chance to kill someone else, if they could get away with it.
I can tell by the way drivers are indifferent to pedestrians. If they run someone over, I am sure that they would enjoy it in ways. There is a lot of hostility out there, looking for an outlet.
There is something missing in most people born after 1970, it was trained out of them somewhere along the line. It is empathy and most young people don't have it.
I live my life with as much fearlessness as I can, I am just not afraid. They may still kill me, but Lord willing I will send them to Hell, while on my way to Heaven.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

The devaluing of human life is both shocking and scary. You see more outrage over an animal getting killed than you do a human being.


----------



## Swedishsocialist

Operator6 said:


> How motivated were the Japanese after Nagasaki and Hiroshima ?


they were already defeted. And you dont carpetbomb with nukes. Nukes are used to ensure everyone and everything dies nowdays. Im not really into that, few are. And my guess is that if someone is to start a nuclear war it would be the us.


----------



## reartinetiller

If you want to go home at night, never hesitate to shoot. Roy


----------



## tango

If I eve have to kill another, in defense of me or mine-- I am sure that there will be no ill effects for me-- 
will I regret it? Surely. Will I dote on it? NO!


----------



## Operator6

Swedishsocialist said:


> they were already defeted. And you dont carpetbomb with nukes. Nukes are used to ensure everyone and everything dies nowdays. Im not really into that, few are. And my guess is that if someone is to start a nuclear war it would be the us.


You do not need to carpet bomb when you have nukes and want to destroy a city and its occupants. They were not defeated. After the second bomb the Japanese leader decided to throw the white flag.

Keep in mind that if it was not for the United States there would not be a Sweden. You would be taken by China,Russia or even the Boy Scouts could probably take over your country.


----------



## Swedishsocialist

Operator6 said:


> You do not need to carpet bomb when you have nukes and want to destroy a city and its occupants. They were not defeated. After the second bomb the Japanese leader decided to throw the white flag.
> 
> Keep in mind that if it was not for the United States there would not be a Sweden. You would be taken by China,Russia or even the Boy Scouts could probably take over your country.


well, you see, Sweden has been around for about a thousend years. Swedes even founded russia once upon a time. China has been around for about 5 000 years and kind of never or extremly rarely has attaced another country (but really have had som bloody civil wars). you have been around for 300 years. We have been at war with Russia several times and really chrushed them from time to time. and have had our losses.

As an example of a Swedish victory, the battle of Narva, the year 1700. For every swede there were four or five russians. They had dug in in anticipation of the swedish armys advance. The entier russian army was swiftley chrused under the lead of king Charles XII and The russians lost all their artillery pieces, all muskets and all supplies. Against an enemy one fifth of its size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)

Your lack of knowledge about Sweden, Russia, China & world is depressing. You really need to step down from your high horse and get a grip. The US have had its peak, do not worry about Sweden, worrie about your own contry.


----------



## Operator6

Swedishsocialist said:


> well, you see, Sweden has been around for about a thousend years. Swedes even founded russia once upon a time. China has been around for about 5 000 years and kind of never or extremly rarely has attaced another country (but really have had som bloody civil wars). you have been around for 300 years. We have been at war with Russia several times and really chrushed them from time to time. and have had our losses.
> 
> As an example of a Swedish victory, the battle of Narva, the year 1700. For every swede there were four or five russians. They had dug in in anticipation of the swedish armys advance. The entier russian army was swiftley chrused under the lead of king Charles XII and The russians lost all their artillery pieces, all muskets and all supplies. Against an enemy one fifth of its size.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)
> 
> Your lack of knowledge about Sweden, Russia, China & world is depressing. You really need to step down from your high horse and get a grip. The US have had its peak, do not worry about Sweden, worrie about your own contry.


Russia and China could take you at anytime we gave them the green light. Think what you want.

And now back to your comment about killing the village idiot just makes the village want to fight.......that was proven wrong. Japan begged for mercy after two of their "villages" where basically vaporized. With a warning first of course.


----------



## Swedishsocialist

Operator6 said:


> Russia and China could take you at anytime we gave them the green light. Think what you want.
> 
> And now back to your comment about killing the village idiot just makes the village want to fight.......that was proven wrong. Japan begged for mercy after two of their "villages" where basically vaporized. With a warning first of course.


well, then russia must also take Finland first. you see, Russia and Sweden dont have a common border, and they really dont have the navy capacity to take over the hole of us.

China has no possible way to even attack Sweden, because geografi. Check some maps before you contine to make a fool out of yourself. They are no military threat what so ever. (well, for Sweden that is).


----------



## SGT E

Swedishsocialist said:


> I think people of today are more ok with shooting other people then before.
> 
> I have read about survievs from WWII that showed about 10% of the soliders acutally tried to hit the enemy, were many was no ok with killing another human beeing and tried to avoid it.
> 
> Today I think it is diffret, people of today are spoon feed violence from tv were people constntly is beeing shot, and more importantly, sits huge amont of time in fronts of screens and shooting others in videogames.
> 
> This I think make killing others an easier thing to do for lots and lots of people.
> 
> So when shtf in some way or another, people are prepared to kill way more then before, and way to many dont have that many skills that they can survive on - but they are fine with shooting others.
> 
> So when the lights go out, well, there will be blood in a lots of places.


We hit the ground in Afghanistan right bout the time the base got attacked...I drew ammo and killed two attackers immediately .....

Then mom yelled dinners ready and I shut down my PS2...


----------



## Operator6

Swedishsocialist said:


> well, then russia must also take Finland first. you see, Russia and Sweden dont have a common border, and they really dont have the navy capacity to take over the hole of us.
> 
> China has no possible way to even attack Sweden, because geografi. Check some maps before you contine to make a fool out of yourself. They are no military threat what so ever. (well, for Sweden that is).


Russia and China both could vaporize Finland and Sweden with the flip of a switch. 
Make no mistake, the United States provides your freedom.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


----------



## Swedishsocialist

Operator6 said:


> Russia and China both could vaporize Finland and Sweden with the flip of a switch. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


they can actually vaporise the entier globe, including the US. So what else wisdom can you share with us today (wery) young padwan?


----------



## Operator6

Swedishsocialist said:


> they can actually vaporise the entier globe, including the US. So what else wisdom can you share with us today (wery) young padwan?


Not without consequence. We have a nuclear triad. Look it up......Sweden doesn't have jack.


----------



## Swedishsocialist

Operator6 said:


> Not without consequence. We have a nuclear triad. Look it up......Sweden doesn't have jack.


oh, you mean they cant vaporise the whole globe withot any consecuenses... thats... I kind of lack words, but I do thank you for enlighting me in this area. A was enterly shure that blowing up the globe was perfectly safe if the Russians or chinese did it


----------



## Operator6

Swedishsocialist said:


> oh, you mean they cant vaporise the whole globe withot any consecuenses... thats... I kind of lack words, but I do thank you for enlighting me in this area. A was enterly shure that blowing up the globe was perfectly safe if the Russians or chinese did it


You lack words and your country lacks a military that can defend itself against the super powers of the modern world. Your country exists in 2016 because we allow it to.

That is all. Have a wonderful day.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

Operator6 said:


> You do not need to carpet bomb when you have nukes and want to destroy a city and its occupants. They were not defeated. After the second bomb the Japanese leader decided to throw the white flag.
> 
> Keep in mind that if it was not for the United States there would not be a Sweden. You would be taken by China,Russia or even the Boy Scouts could probably take over your country.


Sweden has been around for a long time and they most defiantly carved out their place in history when they where part of greater Scandinavia back in the days of the Vikings, don't ever forget that. They've adapted a policy of neutrality in modern times which seems to have worked out nicely for them. I imagine they would hold their own in a fight if they got into one.

All that being said, I'm still proud to be an American, but I do think we should follow their policy of neutrality. Anymore I think we should take a step back and focus our resources on fixing our economy, our infrastructure, and all the other problems our nation faces today. There's no telling what we could do with all the money thats wasted in foreign affairs and other frivolous government spending.


----------



## gambit

sorry mister swedish but japan gave up almost 2 weeks to china before we drop the bombs
they have no more air force but a few planes and they where pretty much grounded and the navy had hardly had any ships left most of their solders didn't want to fight any more and was abandoned their post and others was stuck on other locations because they had no transport to return to homeland thou they still had some hard core troops who want to fight till the very end and still was but not even enough to take over a play ground
how do you think our ships and planes not just got close to the border but then made the trip inland to drop the bombs with no issues from japan 
we pretty much wanted to return the flavor of pearl habor and to make a big statement " its over" and make sure they could not regain any kind of momentum to go back on the attack which they did plan on doing by retrieving all the troops back and start rebuilding the military with in 1 month to go back on the attack , America pretty much said NOPE and nailed the coffin shut for good instead of rebuilding military they now the build TV's computers and make freakish anime with girls with big boobies and gaint robots

sorry I wanted to say this history is one of my favorite subjects
they really need to teach full history and not part of it in schools and not wait till collage
if they did this we wont have allot of blacks claiming babies was brought here to America when children or women with child could not make the trips and never was send instead the tribes who did the trapping just made them into slaves or just killed them
now I am ranting sorry every one
ill head back to my kiddie pool of shame


----------



## Operator6

NotTooProudToHide said:


> Sweden has been around for a long time and they most defiantly carved out their place in history when they where part of greater Scandinavia back in the days of the Vikings, don't ever forget that. They've adapted a policy of neutrality in modern times which seems to have worked out nicely for them. I imagine they would hold their own in a fight if they got into one.
> 
> All that being said, I'm still proud to be an American, but I do think we should follow their policy of neutrality. Anymore I think we should take a step back and focus our resources on fixing our economy, our infrastructure, and all the other problems our nation faces today. There's no telling what we could do with all the money thats wasted in foreign affairs and other frivolous government spending.


Japan was around for quite a while before we all but destroyed them.

The United States affords Sweden the luxury to stay neutral and where may I ask is the honor in neutrality when the world is full of oppression and evil.

God bless America land of the FREE and home of the BRAVE


----------



## Swedishsocialist

Beeing a necromancer now, but here is a relevant video that has lots of good points and info about the present situation regarding this subject.


----------



## stowlin

The 24 hour news cycle, cable news, Internet streams and youtubes make it all more real. However if you look at 30 to 40 years ago a lot more people were being killed then today - especially by firearms. Murder rates in NYC and Chicago are WAY down from decades ago. Its just they are hyped far more today than - then.


----------



## Swedishsocialist

stowlin said:


> The 24 hour news cycle, cable news, Internet streams and youtubes make it all more real. However if you look at 30 to 40 years ago a lot more people were being killed then today - especially by firearms. Murder rates in NYC and Chicago are WAY down from decades ago. Its just they are hyped far more today than - then.


yes, but how is that relevant to this tread?

and regarding kills, there would be a lot more deaths today if we still had the same medical as they had then. They are way better at saving lives nowdays.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Swedishsocialist said:


> I think people of today are more ok with shooting other people then before.
> 
> I have read about survievs from WWII that showed about 10% of the soliders acutally tried to hit the enemy, were many was no ok with killing another human beeing and tried to avoid it.
> 
> Today I think it is diffret, people of today are spoon feed violence from tv were people constntly is beeing shot, and more importantly, sits huge amont of time in fronts of screens and shooting others in videogames.
> 
> This I think make killing others an easier thing to do for lots and lots of people.
> 
> So when shtf in some way or another, people are prepared to kill way more then before, and way to many dont have that many skills that they can survive on - but they are fine with shooting others.
> 
> So when the lights go out, well, there will be blood in a lots of places.


this will explain a lot... Today almost 100% of fighters fire their weapon.. much has changed since WWII....

Men Against Fire: How Many Soldiers Actually Fired Their Weapons at the Enemy During the Vietnam War | HistoryNet


----------



## SAR-1L

As always some great opinions, and some great facts in this forum.
I don't always agree with everyone, but I would like to offer up a bit of my mindset.

As an instructor, teaching people how to survive threats to their life.

I immediately teach, de-escalation, verbal judo, body language training, and avoidance.
This is for two purposes.

1. We don't have bloodshed, where it could have been avoided.
2. When we find a situation that requires use of force, we know we have done what we could, and the use of force is warranted.

I then teach people the following, hand-to-hand, improvised, and less than lethal options.
As not everyone wants a permanent solution to the problem, especially if there is a chance to be wrong.

I do this for three purposes.

1. I am providing people with a tool belt and skill set for a variety of appropriate levels of necessary force.
2. This helps protect us from liability, and we can communicate what methods we deployed, or why we didn't deploy them before using lethal force.
3. People who haven't shot someone before often hesitate, due to doubt. I want people to know when they pull that trigger, that based on all available information
that they have, they are making the best choice available to them, as they within the limit of time have explored all other options.

Finally you know when it escalates to this point, this is under your best perception a matter of life or death. If you don't you die. 

Using mental preparedness before an event, helps remove the need for additional thinking during the event, when it is primarily a reaction based situation.


----------



## stowlin

Swedishsocialist said:


> yes, but how is that relevant to this tread?
> 
> and regarding kills, there would be a lot more deaths today if we still had the same medical as they had then. They are way better at saving lives nowdays.


Relevance is in the numbers. Perception is a lot more people are killed now then in the past and that just isn't. You suggest modern meds are saving more - probably
but shootings are down too so its not just the meds. We just hear, see, know about them so much more.


----------



## M118LR

I am torn on who to answer first. I did the BDA and post strike targeting during the Red Brigades run back to Iraq. Carpet bombing with a couple of active hunter killer craft, the face of the moon has less craters and no carnage. So I'll testify that it's effective at least outside of triple canopy jungles. SAR-1L, could you take a moment to explain how your training syllabus of de-escalation effects my sight picture at say 1200 Meters? What are you training folks to do during the shock and awe when my first round strikes?


----------



## Jakthesoldier

Every vet I have ever spoken to has said if some bastard is trying to kill you, or your mates, you kill them first. Not one ever said otherwise.

Germany lost 80% of the troops it sent to Russia to the Russians, not 80% of all its troops.


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> I am torn on who to answer first. I did the BDA and post strike targeting during the Red Brigades run back to Iraq. Carpet bombing with a couple of active hunter killer craft, the face of the moon has less craters and no carnage. So I'll testify that it's effective at least outside of triple canopy jungles. SAR-1L, could you take a moment to explain how your training syllabus of de-escalation effects my sight picture at say 1200 Meters? What are you training folks to do during the shock and awe when my first round strikes?


Yes, we all know you want us to believe you are the baddest hombre around. Anyone who isn't smart enough to understand that is probably too stupid to use a computer. 
Verbal deescalation is obviously not for someone shootin at you from 1100 meters. 
Tools in the toolbox.


----------



## Jakthesoldier

Operator6 said:


> Japan was around for quite a while before we all but destroyed them.
> 
> The United States affords Sweden the luxury to stay neutral and where may I ask is the honor in neutrality when the world is full of oppression and evil.
> 
> God bless America land of the FREE and home of the BRAVE


Yup

The only thing needed for evil to prosper is good men to do nothing.


----------



## M118LR

Denton said:


> Yes, we all know you want us to believe you are the baddest hombre around. Anyone who isn't smart enough to understand that is probably too stupid to use a computer.
> Verbal deescalation is obviously not for someone shootin at you from 1100 meters.
> Tools in the toolbox.


Denton, strapping the leash on the Hound of the Baskervilles made you One Bad Hombre! while taking the dog for a walk. But you have neglected to mention how much time you have spent with a pooper scooper. 
I'll equate this to time behind the glass when Uncle Sam didn't authorize any action. 
I'm pretty sure I've hooked up more static lines than most handlers have snapped on leashes, so it's time you let this false Bad A$$ thing rest. 
Survivors will pull the trigger when faced with life or death, those that won't ain't heard from again.
Now could you explain why most of the folks suddenly killing people that have no chance of defending themselves end up taking thier own life? Perhaps that is of more interest than belittling the actual combat experience of others?

As a side note: This is a EKIA Thread, so since I have already lost to Chris and Carlos guess I'm never going to make Bad A$$!


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> Denton, strapping the leash on the Hound of the Baskervilles made you One Bad Hombre! while taking the dog for a walk. But you have neglected to mention how much time you have spent with a pooper scooper.
> I'll equate this to time behind the glass when Uncle Sam didn't authorize any action.
> I'm pretty sure I've hooked up more static lines than most handlers have snapped on leashes, so it's time you let this false Bad A$$ thing rest.
> Survivors will pull the trigger when faced with life or death, those that won't ain't heard from again.
> Now could you explain why most of the folks suddenly killing people that have no chance of defending themselves end up taking thier own life? Perhaps that is of more interest than belittling the actual combat experience of others?


I wasn't a bad hombre; the dog was. 
When my job required the M-21, OBVIOUSLY no amount of talking would be heard. Bringing that up would be nothing more than boasting.
On the other hand, I have used verbal communication skills to deescalate many a situation. 
Again, tools in a tool box. Verbal communication skills are just as useful as any other tool and can prevent other tools from being needed.


----------



## Denton

By the way, I am not belittling combat experience; I am making plain that you are a boring braggart who wants everyone to think he is the baddest boy on the Internet. 
As far as you attempting to belittle one of my many jobs and duties, I don't care. It isn't my identity and my whole meaning isn't wrapped up in it.


----------



## M118LR

Denton said:


> By the way, I am not belittling combat experience; I am making plain that you are a boring braggart who wants everyone to think he is the baddest boy on the Internet.
> As far as you attempting to belittle one of my many jobs and duties, I don't care. It isn't my identity and my whole meaning isn't wrapped up in it.


Somehow my response got lost. But things that have been done are facts, things that could have been done are bragging. But Super Moderators are allowed to write history as they see it. JMO.


----------



## M118LR

Denton said:


> By the way, I am not belittling combat experience; I am making plain that you are a boring braggart who wants everyone to think he is the baddest boy on the Internet.
> As far as you attempting to belittle one of my many jobs and duties, I don't care. It isn't my identity and my whole meaning isn't wrapped up in it.


This is your opinion of history. Just like the Democrats you have the power to rewrite truth. I expected better of you. But perhaps you have not digressed to strike this statement along with my others?


----------



## SGT E

sorry


----------



## M118LR

SGT E said:


> So none of you have ever cleared bunkers in the Iraqi Desert with an M1911 and a Grenade
> 
> Shoot the moaners after the grenade is tossed asshole.... Real Easy! .......I did it over 62 times in 100 hours...and slept for a total of 8 hours..
> 
> It would take me about 5 minutes to Dehumanize in SHTF!


Last time I was a tunnel rat ......... is so long ago that it need not be mentioned here.........
The folks that have never experienced it would only call you a Bad A$$ed Braggart. 
Dehumanize? Friend or Foe?


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> This is your opinion of history. Just like the Democrats you have the power to rewrite truth. I expected better of you. But perhaps you have not digressed to strike this statement along with my others?


History?
Wriggling, aren't you?


----------



## Denton

Supermods can't rewrite history, either. Then again, that is just more wriggling.


----------



## bigwheel

Couldnt quite figure the point the young man was trying to make in the movie other than folks can get buck fever..scared..exhausted and many other conditions which could influence good marksmanship skills..so that seems a no brainer. As far as Germans getting froze trigger fingers sure that prob really happened. Leningrad looks mighty cold in the movies. Concerning soldiers intentionally trying to miss the enemy...sounds highly reasonable. Recall a big survey they did of some US Airforce bases done in the Viet Nam era..in which it was discovered that a big percentage of the troops vowed they would not fight even if their own base was under attack. Thinking the figure was somewhere around 25%.


----------



## M118LR

Denton said:


> Supermods can't rewrite history, either. Then again, that is just more wriggling.


So perhaps this time you could explain how it is that you claim to have used a M-21 to it's full potential, yet you profess to being less than a Bad Ass? Or is this just another in the I claim to be a Bad Ass and won't just state real facts that I did what needed to be done! Perhaps you shouldn't berate those that just state the facts of what they did because they had to, and call them "Bad Assed"?


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> So perhaps this time you could explain how it is that you claim to have used a M-21 to it's full potential, yet you profess to being less than a Bad Ass? Or is this just another in the I claim to be a Bad Ass and won't just state real facts that I did what needed to be done! Perhaps you shouldn't berate those that just state the facts of what they did because they had to, and call them "Bad Assed"?


Again you want to play with words. Never have I said "full potential." You are the non-stop braggart; the one who always looks to write a sentence in a way to convey you are the badass. Man, it gets boring.


----------



## Denton

For example, it is clear to anyone that one isn't afforded the opportunity of dialogue with a sniper, but you felt the need to make you self-aggrandizing comment. Not even third person, but written first person. It'd take an idiot or a skimmer to miss it.


----------



## M118LR

Here is boring, folks that can't accept what is required to get a task done and try to berate those that have as braggart's or bad asses. Either you did what was required to make the mission a success or you are a failure that wants to minimize what it took to make the mission a success due to your failures. Got it, get some, or get off the soapbox. Want something anymore factual?


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> Here is boring, folks that can't accept what is required to get a task done and try to berate those that have as braggart's or bad asses. Either you did what was required to make the mission a success or you are a failure that wants to minimize what it took to make the mission a success due to your failures. Got it, get some, or get off the soapbox. Want something anymore factual?


Oh, now if one doesn't accept your boring self-aggrandizement, one is unwilling to accept what is required. Thank goodness you are here to explain it all in such a manner. After all, without you, we'd have no idea it is difficult to verbally deescalate a situation with a sniper.


----------



## M118LR

Try talking to a Sniper, I can read your words while you are under my glass. Don't forget that I have no second thought's of any operation that allowed me to finger the trigger. It's only the moment's that I wasn't allowed to end the conflict that I agonize about.


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> Try talking to a Sniper, I can read your words while you are under my glass. Don't forget that I have no second thought's of any operation that allowed me to finger the trigger. It's only the moment's that I wasn't allowed to end the conflict that I agonize about.


Oh, I forgot. You are that guy.

You just proved two points, again. One is you either don't get the concept of verbal deescalation or are just twisting it around to say, "I'm a badass!" The other being you can't help but be "that guy" in every thread.


----------



## Coastie dad

Geez....weasels getting hair waxed off....

Let me be the first to admit.....I am a coward.
Yes, I said it. I'm afraid of getting hurt, shot, or especially dead. Therefore, every punch, kick, or bullet needed to count for something. I've been hurt, cut, shot, but not dead.
But, the chest beating, penis waggling behaviors on the forum today is KILLING me.

:vs_lol:


----------



## M118LR

Perhaps you just don't understand the psychological effects of a Sniper Attack upon a highly trained military hunter killer element. Perhaps you should take a little time to converse with the WWII, Korean, Nam, or other Combat Infantry Forces that actually came under Sniper Fire. How is it that one Sniper with a bolt action rifle could halt the progress of an entire Battalion? As the lost segment stated, I already lost to Chris and Carlos so how could I ever be considered a Bad A$$?


----------



## A Watchman

Coastie dad said:


> Geez....weasels getting hair waxed off....
> 
> Let me be the first to admit.....I am a coward.
> Yes, I said it. I'm afraid of getting hurt, shot, or especially dead. Therefore, every punch, kick, or bullet needed to count for something. I've been hurt, cut, shot, but not dead.
> But, the chest beating, penis waggling behaviors on the forum today is KILLING me.
> 
> :vs_lol:


Coastie, like you I tire of internet hero play and the chest beating......... but may I inquire as to whats wrong with a little penis waggling?


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> Perhaps you just don't understand the psychological effects of a Sniper Attack upon a highly trained military hunter killer element. Perhaps you should take a little time to converse with the WWII, Korean, Nam, or other Combat Infantry Forces that actually came under Sniper Fire. How is it that one Sniper with a bolt action rifle could halt the progress of an entire Battalion? As the lost segment stated, I already lost to Chris and Carlos so how could I ever be considered a Bad A$$?


Perhaps I do, but you are missing the point. Or maybe you aren't missing the points. Maybe you just can't help but make sure everyone has to see how bad you are, even if you have to interject with crap that is not connected.


----------



## M118LR

A Watchman said:


> Coastie, like you I tire of internet hero play and the chest beating......... but may I inquire as to whats wrong with a little penis waggling?


Watchman & Coastie, I find it admirable that Y'all tire of internet hero play. But I shall ask both of you a rhetorical question, have you survived incoming Sniper fire and what was your role in the solution? If you want to share your real world experiences to such a dilemma I'd be mute to listen. If you have no such experience, why would you bother berate?


----------



## Coastie dad

A Watchman said:


> Coastie, like you I tire of internet hero play and the chest beating......... but may I inquire as to whats wrong with a little penis waggling?


It's the little penis being waggled thinking it's a big one being shaken that gets old, too.

Crap....I feel a warning in my future......Gambit...move over, here I come in my speedo....


----------



## Denton

Coastie dad said:


> It's the little penis being waggled thinking it's a big one being shaken that gets old, too.
> 
> Crap....I feel a warning in my future......Gambit...move over, here I come in my speedo....


A warning? Being a boring braggart is not worthy of a warning. Threatening us with a speedo, on the other hand.....


----------



## M118LR

Denton said:


> Perhaps I do, but you are missing the point. Or maybe you aren't missing the points. Maybe you just can't help but make sure everyone has to see how bad you are, even if you have to interject with crap that is not connected.


It may not be me missing the point. You are giving advice to others that have never experienced such a traumatic event. Don't forget that all those that count on them expect them to be able to overcome such an event. So the feces you spout will be all they have to live by in order to overcome such an event.


----------



## Auntie

:vs_peek: yep everything is under control. Avoids looking at the kiddie pool of shame.


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> It may not be me missing the point. You are giving advice to others that have never experienced such a traumatic event. Don't forget that all those that count on them expect them to be able to overcome such an event. So the feces you spout will be all they have to live by in order to overcome such an event.


Again, you are way off the mark. Do you even recall how this got started?


----------



## M118LR

Yes, a socialist declared that it is to easy for folks to descend into arbitrary murder. It is obvious to the common layman that the OP has never pulled the trigger on another fellow human being. Furthermore the clarification of living with such a deed, isn't even within the OP's Concepts. But those of US that have and suffer because of it are mincing words that the OP could never comprehend. Is that about the jest of it Denton?


----------



## A Watchman

M118LR said:


> Watchman & Coastie, I find it admirable that Y'all tire of internet hero play. But I shall ask both of you a rhetorical question, have you survived incoming Sniper fire and what was your role in the solution? If you want to share your real world experiences to such a dilemma I'd be mute to listen. If you have no such experience, why would you bother berate?


You pose simple questions this time with the noted absence of your historical attempt to wordsmith a life or death situation. Therefore, I will respond as follows:

No, I have not survived sniper fire, or at least the type you refer to . My survival skills have been honed by mental battles in the corporate board room and private business sectors. There, death can come quickly as well.

I must respond because I know every one of life's battles, or one's attempts to prepare for the unknown are not a simulated war zone scenario. I also am aware that I need not analyze what I would do if I was to be whisked away to Antarctica or some other barren land. Should your own battles fought be true and accurate, I am most deeply thankful for your sacrifices and service. However, while they contribute to the freedoms I have enjoyed, they are irrelevant to my methodologies and choices in preparing to the best of my abilities.


----------



## M118LR

A Watchman said:


> You pose simple questions this time with the noted absence of your historical attempt to wordsmith a life or death situation. Therefore, I will respond as follows:
> 
> No, I have not survived sniper fire, or at least the type you refer to . My survival skills have been honed by mental battles in the corporate board room and private business sectors. There, death can come quickly as well.
> 
> I must respond because I know every one of life's battles, or one's attempts to prepare for the unknown are not a simulated war zone scenario. I also am aware that I need not analyze what I would do if I was to be whisked away to Antarctica or some other barren land. Should your own battles fought be true and accurate, I am most deeply thankful for your sacrifices and service. However, while they contribute to the freedoms I have enjoyed, they are irrelevant to my methodologies and choices in preparing to the best of my abilities.


Thank You for a response to a rhetorical question. I didn't ask for this to be public. I also didn't expect others to have been faced with the options that my profession exposed me to. Each chooses his own and draws conclusions from thier everyday experience. However, financial failure is merely a setback, loss of life is completely unrecoverable! This is more than just my opinion.


----------



## inceptor

Coastie dad said:


> Gambit...move over, here I come in my speedo....


Now there's a picture I don't need :vs_smirk:


----------



## Coastie dad

Very simple:
Everything in moderation. I don't think of it as berating, but I like to read about prepping, and some real life experience added. If I want to constantly read about your tales of daring do, I'll buy your book. If I want to hear them in person, we'll sit down and swap stories. I know yours will be more interesting than mine. 
Since you're asking questions, why is it when you bring up an interesting topic or idea, (which I apparently take time to read) must you almost always go out of the way to place yourself and experiences in the limelight? Why do you insist everyone know how well you are trained, how strategically superior you are, and challenge everyone to see if they meet your stringent requirements of some elite warrior class? People like you could not have done what they did without people like me. You know, team members. I've never known a sniper like you. The few I've known and worked alongside were very introverted. But that was before the internet.
And no, the sniper fire killed me.


----------



## Coastie dad

And let me be clear, Denton, I was not referring to your little penis being waggled....

Wait...that didn't come out quite right....:vs_whistle:


----------



## Coastie dad

inceptor said:


> Now there's a picture I don't need :vs_smirk:


It's actually better than my Bikini pic.

My speedo has the Texas flag on it !!!!


----------



## M118LR

Coastie dad said:


> Very simple:
> Everything in moderation. I don't think of it as berating, but I like to read about prepping, and some real life experience added. If I want to constantly read about your tales of daring do, I'll buy your book. If I want to hear them in person, we'll sit down and swap stories. I know yours will be more interesting than mine.
> Since you're asking questions, why is it when you bring up an interesting topic or idea, (which I apparently take time to read) must you almost always go out of the way to place yourself and experiences in the limelight? Why do you insist everyone know how well you are trained, how strategically superior you are, and challenge everyone to see if they meet your stringent requirements of some elite warrior class? People like you could not have done what they did without people like me. You know, team members. I've never known a sniper like you. The few I've known and worked alongside were very introverted. But that was before the internet.
> And no, the sniper fire killed me.


Coastie dad, I am a survivor of a time that Uncle Sam has forbade to publish. I am not a S.E.A.L. yet I have been a Team Member of highest acclaim. My expectations are drawn from those that have completed BUDS and gone on into the Big Pond. As less than one percent of those that entered the Military, combined with less than one percent of those in the USMC, I have exceeded the requirements to achieve these unspoken skills and become a Qualifier of Instructors to Teach these skills. It is not realist to expect that those I correspond with could ever attain that with which I considered a Minimum Specification.Should I be like those that came before me and never pass along things that Y'all couldn't qualify for????? Yehp, I could maybe should remain silent! Many think that I should be banished into silence. Some forums have, much to the chagrin of thier members. I post not what you conceive or prepare for, I spoil all your prepared plans. What is it that you didn't conceive of that comes to me as a Battle-plan? How deep into the Dark Recesses of the unacknowledged Warrior Class are you willing to delve before Uncle Sam Silences all your kind are you willing to go????????


----------



## Coastie dad

Oh, Lord.

Do you stand on a marble pedestal when you orate?


----------



## M118LR

Coastie dad said:


> Oh, Lord.
> 
> Do you stand on a marble pedestal when you orate?


Just a common man deceived by a duty to God, Country, and my fellow American. A little naive skill behind a rifle coupled with High School Letters in wrestling, track, football, baseball, swimming, and cross country, led me into a life of deception sponsored by my richest Uncle Sam.

PS. It's not my loss if I decide not to share anymore. Ask Denton to answer the questions he has never experienced!


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Just a couple of military truisms:
Those who talk the loudest usually have done the least.
The difference between a war story and a fairy tale - one starts out "there I was", the other "once upon a time."

And for the record, I was never a hero, but I proudly served with some.


----------



## Auntie

rice paddy daddy said:


> Just a couple of military truisms:
> Those who talk the loudest usually have done the least.
> The difference between a war story and a fairy tale - one starts out "there I was", the other "once upon a time."
> 
> And for the record, I was never a hero, but I proudly served with some.


I didn't think a like was enough. I LOVE this post.:vs_cool: I tip my hat to you Sir. Your sacrifices are very much appreciated.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

CWOLDOJAX can vouch that I don't tell war stories.
(He knows me personally)


----------



## Denton

rice paddy daddy said:


> CWOLDOJAX can vouch that I don't tell war stories.
> (He knows me personally)


I enjoy hearing war stories told by humble. thoughtful brothers. I also enjoy listening to humorous anecdotes


----------



## Coastie dad

M118LR said:


> Just a common man deceived by a duty to God, Country, and my fellow American. A little naive skill behind a rifle coupled with High School Letters in wrestling, track, football, baseball, swimming, and cross country, led me into a life of deception sponsored by my richest Uncle Sam.
> 
> PS. It's not my loss if I decide not to share anymore. Ask Denton to answer the questions he has never experienced!


Not my loss if I never wanted or asked for it.
But please, by all means, keep that challenge coin polished and handy.


----------



## Boss Dog




----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> Just a common man deceived by a duty to God, Country, and my fellow American. A little naive skill behind a rifle coupled with High School Letters in wrestling, track, football, baseball, swimming, and cross country, led me into a life of deception sponsored by my richest Uncle Sam.
> 
> PS. It's not my loss if I decide not to share anymore. Ask Denton to answer the questions he has never experienced!


Brother, you just don't get it.

You don't impart much knowledge. You are more interested in making yourself appear to be all that and a bag of grits, and that is nothing but annoying. I looked back at your relatively recent posts, and it is more of the same and not much of what you think you offer. A shame.

Knock off your "look at me! I'm a real badass!" crap. None of us care. If you are here just to build your ego, you won't be missed. If you want to be an embraced member, stick around.

By the way, I am not a baddass and have not even thought of portraying myself as one. I've known the baddest of them of my time, and they'd never talk or write the way you do. Take that for what you think it's worth.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Don't feed the troll, he/them are trying to get under everyone's skin. Not really sure if the same person is posting all the time. Contradictions in the posts.


----------



## Slippy

My Son2 had a friend in middle school and high school named JS. JS was a good kid, happy go lucky was how we described him, full of smiles and a bit of comic mischief. And we enjoyed the times that JS spent at our home with our son. 

One beautiful fall day, JS ran a red light and T-boned a car with 2 men in it and killed them both instantly. JS is not the same young man. He is a tormented soul. 

In this case, our friend JS could not handle the responsibility of killing another man.


----------



## stevekozak

I see the John Rourke/Bob Lee Swaggart Hybrid has been on the loose again. Amused to see tunnel-rat has been added to the resume. :vs_shocked:


----------



## Operator6

Why do some people get offended by listening to others speak of their own success or accomplishments ? 

When I hear of others accomplishments, I'm happy for that person. 

There is certainly not a jealous bone in my being..........

If someone has better training or is accomplished in certain aspects of any subject that's being discussed, I cherry pick the info I believe will help me and that applies to my application and LEAVE the rest. 



Now, thoughts on killing. It's to be avoided, even with just cause. 

I wish you fine individuals a wonder Saturday.


----------



## Targetshooter

NO WARNING SHOTS HERE . I put up two signs trespassers will be shot on sight .


----------



## Operator6

Targetshooter said:


> NO WARNING SHOTS HERE . I put up two signs trespassers will be shot on sight .


That sign could quite possibly help convict you of murder. It may sound cool but believe me, it's not.


----------



## A Watchman

Operator6 said:


> Why do some people get offended by listening to others speak of their own success or accomplishments ?
> 
> When I hear of others accomplishments, I'm happy for that person.
> 
> There is certainly not a jealous bone in my being..........
> 
> If someone has better training or is accomplished in certain aspects of any subject that's being discussed, I cherry pick the info I believe will help me and that applies to my application and LEAVE the rest.
> 
> Now, thoughts on killing. It's to be avoided, even with just cause.
> 
> I wish you fine individuals a wonder Saturday.


Offended? No

Bored after hearing the same self promoting theme repeatedly? Yes

There are many here on PF who have had successes in life. Many are never stated. Most state them once.


----------



## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> Offended? No
> 
> Bored after hearing the same self promoting theme repeatedly? Yes
> 
> There are many here on PF who have had successes in life. Many are never stated. Most state them once.


Use the ignore function. Easy solution for those who want a solution.


----------



## A Watchman

Operator6 said:


> Use the ignore function. Easy solution for those who want a solution.


I choose not to use the ignore button. Everyone gets to have a voice, some are just undesirable. I responded to a direct question to me individually in this thread and I responded with the truth. The same to the question you posed.


----------



## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> I choose not to use the ignore button. Everyone gets to have a voice, some are just undesirable. I responded to a direct question to me individually in this thread and I responded with the truth. The same to the question you posed.


Ok, if everyone gets a voice then what is your complaint ? You don't like what some people say ? Lol !! That's not legit.


----------



## A Watchman

Operator6 said:


> Ok, if everyone gets a voice then what is your complaint ? You don't like what some people say ? Lol !! That's not legit.


Are you this thick headed every Sat morning? Reread my comment below.



A Watchman said:


> I choose not to use the ignore button. Everyone gets to have a voice, some are just undesirable. I responded to a direct question to me individually in this thread and I responded with the truth. The same to the question you posed.


I stated I responded to questions asked. I did not log a complaint, well not until your last pompous post.


----------



## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> Are you this thick headed every Sat morning? Reread my comment below.
> 
> I stated I responded to questions asked. I did not log a complaint, well not until your last pompous post.


I don't think you understand. Have a great day !


----------



## Slippy

I think back over my life and fondly remember my school years. I really enjoyed the 7th Grade. 

That's why I like the forum so much, it's like the 7th Grade! :vs_smirk:


----------



## Prepared One

I thought we were discussing penis waggling and speedos?........... No? ( mumbles walking away clutching his............speedos )


----------



## Coastie dad

Because I grow tired of braggarts. To include people who like to flaunt wealth.

If I wanted to ignore someone, I wouldn't even come to this forum.

Would I say this to the face if we were all together? Believe me, y'all get the edited version.

There's not a person on here I ignore. Nor do I plan to do so. I come here to learn. Am I perfect? Hell no. I'm sure I've pissed people here off. I know I have, because I've sent some PMs apologizing because I thought I may have offended unintentionally.
If I tell an army story, I like to tell the funny ones. I've mentioned a couple things in passing that weren't so fun, but I don't dwell on that crap.

I want to learn about prepping and survival. Not kneel at anyone's altar.

Now, I've detracted from this thread enough. If you don't agree with me, fine. There's a military sub forum where we can all get together and blow smoke or cry in our beers, or laugh at each other's Foxtrot uniforms.

So just drop it, ok?


----------



## stevekozak

Coastie dad said:


> Because I grow tired of braggarts. To include people who like to flaunt wealth.
> 
> If I wanted to ignore someone, I wouldn't even come to this forum.
> 
> Would I say this to the face if we were all together? Believe me, y'all get the edited version.
> 
> There's not a person on here I ignore. Nor do I plan to do so. I come here to learn. Am I perfect? Hell no. I'm sure I've pissed people here off. I know I have, because I've sent some PMs apologizing because I thought I may have offended unintentionally.
> If I tell an army story, I like to tell the funny ones. I've mentioned a couple things in passing that weren't so fun, but I don't dwell on that crap.
> 
> I want to learn about prepping and survival. Not kneel at anyone's altar.
> 
> Now, I've detracted from this thread enough. If you don't agree with me, fine. There's a military sub forum where we can all get together and blow smoke or cry in our beers, or laugh at each other's Foxtrot uniforms.
> 
> So just drop it, ok?
> View attachment 19921


I'm stealing that meme as soon as I figure out how! :vs_wave:


----------



## Slippy

stevekozak said:


> I'm stealing that meme as soon as I figure out how! :vs_wave:


I'm still trying to figure out exactly when the word MEME became a word? :vs_worry:


----------



## bigwheel

I vote for the combatants to give each other a shirtless cyber hug.


----------



## Denton

bigwheel said:


> I vote for the combatants to give each other a shirtless cyber hug.


It's OK if everyone keeps their socks on, right?


----------



## Coastie dad

Socks and sunglasses so no one recognizes you.


----------



## Urinal Cake

Deleted


----------



## SOCOM42

If Americans are such wimp asses, then how did the Eighth Air Force do its job?

You can bet your ass that those aerial gunners did their job and well.

Even with high losses the Eighth NEVER TURNED BACK because of enemy opposition! 

How about the guys on the beaches of Normandy? FIVE THOUSAND DIED in the first 12 hours, it took American riflemen to take the ground, the American Infantry,

it would have never happened if it went your descriptive way, how dare you denigrate the American soldier! AHOLE.

Sure there were a few who did not do what they needed to do, it is always that way, but too few to mention unless you want to shit on the American Fighting

Man.

You bullshit keyboard commandoes are just a-holes who have neither balls or a clue or ever served in the combat arms. GFY.

The guys in my father in laws unit of the First Marines, had no such slackers on Guadalcanal, they fought hand to hand with the jap bastards.

You can piss out your crap to your socialist turd friends, don't push that crap here on us here that served.

I once said you were welcome here for my part, now keep the hell out,

go spend your time watching you family get raped and butchered by your culture-enrichers, you deserve no less, AHOLE.

Makes me sick to think I am of the same heritage as you.


----------



## SOCOM42

If the time comes again, I will not have any reservation.

SS, best you not decide to join the EU or NATO OPFOR, American riflemen will be waiting in force.

It will be a war of extermination, like none other ever seen. the theme song, like Gary Owen of troopers past will now be the Deguello

Light blue makes an outstanding contrasted target, MOLON LABE!


----------



## rice paddy daddy

SOCOM, ever been to the National Museum Of The Mighty Eighth Air Force in Savannah?
It is an outstanding place full of interactive exhibits, surround-sound videos, even a complete B-17 inside the main hall.:vs_love:
It is right off I-95. I have been there twice, but with my old bone-on-bone arthritic knee I was in bad pain after just a couple of hours.
With my new chrome knee I need to go back for a full day. Or two. It is about 1.5 hour ride for me.
As a WWII enthusiast, I HIGHLY recommend a visit.
National Mighty Eighth Museum


----------



## preponadime

I spent 21 years of my life as a United Staes Marine guess I still am once a Marine but that's not the question. I never enjoyed having to kill another human. It's what I was trained to do and I did it well it was my job but like most jobs you don't have to like it. I agree that today's youth have grown up with violence with video games and TV. There is no doubt in my mind that my 19-year-old daughter would not hesitate for a second to pull the trigger if her or anyone if the need should arise. Not because of any video game but because she grew up around men and women who respect the human life, their country and their flag who could and would use violence to protect it at any cost including taking another life like it or not.


----------



## SOCOM42

rice paddy daddy said:


> SOCOM, ever been to the National Museum Of The Mighty Eighth Air Force in Savannah?
> It is an outstanding place full of interactive exhibits, surround-sound videos, even a complete B-17 inside the main hall.:vs_love:
> It is right off I-95. I have been there twice, but with my old bone-on-bone arthritic knee I was in bad pain after just a couple of hours.
> With my new chrome knee I need to go back for a full day. Or two. It is about 1.5 hour ride for me.
> As a WWII enthusiast, I HIGHLY recommend a visit.
> National Mighty Eighth Museum


I would love to go, however it is out of the question.

For one it is too far away for me.

I have studied the Mighty Eighth's history, in detail like those of 91'st and 100th bombardment group, Maj. "Rosie" Rosenthal, Col. John Bennett, hero's all.

The missions to Regensburg, Berlin, Schweinfurt.

They lost between the eighth and fifteenth AF over forty four thousand killed!!

Then we get some foreign A-HOLE coming here and degrading our brothers


----------



## Urinal Cake

rice paddy daddy said:


> SOCOM, ever been to the National Museum Of The Mighty Eighth Air Force in Savannah?
> It is an outstanding place full of interactive exhibits, surround-sound videos, even a complete B-17 inside the main hall.:vs_love:
> It is right off I-95. I have been there twice, but with my old bone-on-bone arthritic knee I was in bad pain after just a couple of hours.
> With my new chrome knee I need to go back for a full day. Or two. It is about 1.5 hour ride for me.
> As a WWII enthusiast, I HIGHLY recommend a visit.
> National Mighty Eighth Museum


Deleted


----------



## 1skrewsloose

I am proud to be in association with the folks on this forum. You guys rock!!!


----------



## A Watchman

Hey Swede you still here ? (likely already slipped quietly out the back door, as he should have done)


----------



## Prepared One

Most of what the Swede has posted in the past was simply America bashing. He rather enjoyed it.


----------



## inceptor

I wonder if in Sweden they have "Press 1 for Swedish, press 2 for Farsi"?


----------



## Urinal Cake

Deleted


----------



## SOCOM42

inceptor said:


> I wonder if in Sweden they have "Press 1 for Swedish, press 2 for Farsi"?


Soon it will be Farsi only.

The Swedish language will be as extinct as the Vikings along with any testosterone that might remain.


----------



## SOCOM42

Back in the early fifties, the first publicized American sex change was Christine Jorgenson.

It was done in Sweden, apparently plenty of the sweed's had gone through the conversion prior to.

I remember it, it was all over the news, but I did not understand what was going on , and that confusion is what caused me to remember it.

It is probably better for them all to go from M-F, make it easier for the muzzies, 

can you imagine their thoughts if they grab a tranny and find a diminutive hawg hanging there?

Seeing they have given up their race to the "culture enrichers", so be it.


----------



## Urinal Cake

Deleted


----------



## SOCOM42

Urinal Cake said:


> Would that be considered "Pork"?


Somewhere in my vocabulary, a hoe bag was also called a PIG, so I guess it would qualify as such, a tranpig or a hoetran???

I am sure some of those heathen won't mind getting between some "pork loins" so to speak.


----------



## Denton

Let's keep this a little less disgusting, please.


----------



## Urinal Cake

Delete


----------



## Denton

Urinal Cake said:


> Ok, but I didn't draw 1st blood....


No, but you did lose discipline. As a matter of fact, your response was way overboard. The articles did nothing but suggest people have an aversion to killing. I just reviewed each of them and found no attack against the military.


----------



## Slippy

Denton said:


> No, but you did lose discipline...


One can argue that I lost discipline years ago. :vs_wave:


----------



## Smitty901

How can we not admit Abortion has gone a long way in making killing more acceptable.


----------



## SAR-1L

M118LR said:


> SAR-1L, could you take a moment to explain how your training syllabus of de-escalation effects my sight picture at say 1200 Meters?


Hello M118LR, first sorry for not answering sooner, you didn't quote me so I didn't realize anyone had replied to my post.
Second your question is loaded, and the answer your looking for is that it doesn't.

However the "syllabus of de-escalation" that you are criticizing as ineffective vs your scenario is equal to asking how 
waving a flower at an incoming hydrogen bomb would protect them from annihilation.



M118LR said:


> What are you training folks to do during the shock and awe when my first round strikes?


Now before I answer the next question please consider that it is a tier I level training program,
for a civilian audience, for the benefit of a civilian without prior training or exposure to subject matter. 
What I can cover within limited time, will always be limited, and there will always be that scenario where you just don't win.

For instance if you are the first person he shoots, without any prior warning, you are most likely dead. That is a reality, and I relay that fact to my students.

Now what I do cover is in depth in regards to active shooter, and has nothing to do with de-escalation at this point.
We know a shooter is in for a kill count, there normally is *no* talking him down, or begging for your life which will be effective.

That is the first lesson that students learn, then we cover peoples responses, we hear run, hide, fight, what we don't hear often is posturing and what people do most which is freezing.
I teach people how to mentally condition themselves to not freeze. I then give them all the tools to properly react, as those who freeze often do so cause they are not prepared for the
situation, do not believe it would ever happen to them, etc. etc.

Now my counter question to you is the following: "Why does the training I offer appear as useless to you from your standpoint, as you make it out to be in the scenario you have created?"


----------



## Denton

SAR-1L said:


> ...
> Now my counter question to you is the following: "Why does the training I offer appear as useless to you from your standpoint, as you make it out to be in the scenario you have created?"


That is how he rolls; he picks what someone says and then twists the scenario around to where he is the expert badass.


----------



## inceptor

@M118LR so what your saying is that unless you're a sniper, in position 24-7, a persons situation is hopeless.


----------



## SOCOM42

Inceptor, you don't have to worry, he only operates on tidal flats with sand crabs.


----------



## inceptor

SOCOM42 said:


> Inceptor, you don't have to worry, he only operates on tidal flats with sand crabs.


Whew! Good to know, I was worried.


----------



## New guy 101

Swedishsocialist said:


> yes, but how is that relevant to this tread?
> 
> and regarding kills, there would be a lot more deaths today if we still had the same medical as they had then. They are way better at saving lives nowdays.


Well this is a one year old thread that's getting a lot of attention so let me dust off my 2 pennies and flip em out.

First the idea that soldiers are intentionally missing is horse shit. The idea that they aren't taking enough time to aim center mass is true. If you have never heard rounds cracking past your head or hitting a berm or rock or tree your behind you will never understand the fear that it brings.
Many just point and firing hoping to hit or to at least supress gun firing at them. Incoming rounds sound very close even when they aren't.
I agree about 1 and 10 have the internal off switch to face that fire and make well placed shots. But its not intentional...its a fear/survival instinct move....just as the fetal position is for the true coward or wounded and dying. It provides them emotional security and some comfort.
As far as the rest of the horse shit being spewed...I'm going to just read and address as I get to it.


Swedishsocialist said:


> newspeak/ dehumanisation is one tool that is used to make it easier for the grunts to kill people yes, works kind of everywere, "barley even human"





A Watchman said:


> You pose simple questions this time with the noted absence of your historical attempt to wordsmith a life or death situation. Therefore, I will respond as follows:
> 
> No, I have not survived sniper fire, or at least the type you refer to . My survival skills have been honed by mental battles in the corporate board room and private business sectors. There, death can come quickly as well.
> 
> I must respond because I know every one of life's battles, or one's attempts to prepare for the unknown are not a simulated war zone scenario. I also am aware that I need not analyze what I would do if I was to be whisked away to Antarctica or some other barren land. Should your own battles fought be true and accurate, I am most deeply thankful for your sacrifices and service. However, while they contribute to the freedoms I have enjoyed, they are irrelevant to my methodologies and choices in preparing to the best of my abilities.


----------



## New guy 101

M118LR said:


> So perhaps this time you could explain how it is that you claim to have used a M-21 to it's full potential, yet you profess to being less than a Bad Ass? Or is this just another in the I claim to be a Bad Ass and won't just state real facts that I did what needed to be done! Perhaps you shouldn't berate those that just state the facts of what they did because they had to, and call them "Bad Assed"?


Well truth be told...every lurid tale on here is not fact...simply conjecture until backed up with documented information. So its easy to see why some don't call themselves bad asses for doing their job and there are some who claim bad ass status using stories that cannot be validated...

Sort of like if you had a female icon and a flirty way about you....I'd immediately assume your a mid forties fat ass balding sexually confused white guy, while you might claim to be a sex goddess.....just two points of views crossing in the night....neither are factual. Let's get back on topic instead of playing liberals and pretending that once written its automatically a fact beyond contestation.


----------



## New guy 101

And as a former soldier...it pretty much makes my stomach turn to see other soldiers talking down to our fellow members because..."you ain't been there or done that" its an argument that says you hold them as lesser beings and one that frankly goes against the very reasons I fought.

I fought because it was what I wanted to do. I am no better a human, citizen, or patriot because of it. If you studied history at all you would find countless equally patriotic civilians who never fought, but served in other ways... to me the best way they can show it is through continued support of our service men and women...and with dickheads like some of you chest thumping degenerates....your preventing or degrading that...so shame on you....and all so you can feel more heroic or brave....real heroes and brave people don't go around telling people how heroic or brave they are...its something said about them by others from what they see....not what you tell them.

Learn a little humility...and shut your mouth once in a while.


----------



## SOCOM42

For a moment I will make a statement, I am familiar with sniper training and techniques.

We all get to be a has been, some face it, other carry on a fantasy of their prowess, refusing to recognize the ticking clock with our name.

I end this here and decline further discussion.


----------



## hawgrider

rice paddy daddy said:


> Just a couple of military truisms:
> *Those who talk the loudest usually have done the least.*
> The difference between a war story and a fairy tale - one starts out "there I was", the other "once upon a time."
> 
> And for the record, I was never a hero, but I proudly served with some.


And there it is the quote from the respected Veteran that I used a couple weeks ago on another bragger.


----------



## RedLion

I do think that younger generations of today does in an overall sense have less empathy for others and a larger sense of entitlement. This is a product of helicopter parenting, getting a trophy for showing up, the socialist attack on values and morals, and technology. A combo platter.


----------



## M118LR

SAR-1L said:


> Now before I answer the next question please consider that it is a tier I level training program,
> for a civilian audience, for the benefit of a civilian without prior training or exposure to subject matter.
> What I can cover within limited time, will always be limited, and there will always be that scenario where you just don't win.
> 
> For instance if you are the first person he shoots, without any prior warning, you are most likely dead. That is a reality, and I relay that fact to my students.
> 
> Now what I do cover is in depth in regards to active shooter, and has nothing to do with de-escalation at this point.
> We know a shooter is in for a kill count, there normally is *no* talking him down, or begging for your life which will be effective.
> 
> That is the first lesson that students learn, then we cover peoples responses, we hear run, hide, fight, what we don't hear often is posturing and what people do most which is freezing.
> I teach people how to mentally condition themselves to not freeze. I then give them all the tools to properly react, as those who freeze often do so cause they are not prepared for the
> situation, do not believe it would ever happen to them, etc. etc.
> 
> Now my counter question to you is the following: "Why does the training I offer appear as useless to you from your standpoint, as you make it out to be in the scenario you have created?"


First, Thanks for an apropos response SAR-1L. De-escalation either verbal or by posture, is only effective if it's used from a supposed position of control.
What are you using to simulate the experience of an active shooter? 
Provided you have enough repetitions you may be able to modify the reactions during an actual situation? But even Battle hardened Vets have been known to freeze at the most inopportune moments.


----------



## M118LR

New guy 101 said:


> And as a former soldier...it pretty much makes my stomach turn to see other soldiers talking down to our fellow members because..."you ain't been there or done that" its an argument that says you hold them as lesser beings and one that frankly goes against the very reasons I fought.
> 
> I fought because it was what I wanted to do. I am no better a human, citizen, or patriot because of it. If you studied history at all you would find countless equally patriotic civilians who never fought, but served in other ways... to me the best way they can show it is through continued support of our service men and women...and with dickheads like some of you chest thumping degenerates....your preventing or degrading that...so shame on you....and all so you can feel more heroic or brave....real heroes and brave people don't go around telling people how heroic or brave they are...its something said about them by others from what they see....not what you tell them.
> 
> Learn a little humility...and shut your mouth once in a while.


New guy 101, the thoughtless concept of this thread is that killing has become easier somehow! 
Now to those not accustomed to slaughtering and butchering their own food, even something as basic as taking the life of an animal to put food on your table is a foreign concept. 
To most Professional Soldiers, the concept of taking a life without being actively engaged in mortal combat, isn't a consideration. 
There are reasons why so few actually become the finished product at the end of Sniper Training. 
So only those that haven't had the actual experience even ponder such an absurd concept. Those that have, ponder how to deal with the events for the remainder of thier days. 
If that garnishes me the title of "chest thumping degenerate" in your jargon, so be it. I'll add it to "Baby Killer", "Assassin", and all the other derogatory terms that have been hurdled at Veterans since the day they returned Home.


----------



## M118LR

SOCOM42 said:


> For a moment I will make a statement, I am familiar with sniper training and techniques.
> 
> We all get to be a has been, some face it, other carry on a fantasy of their prowess, refusing to recognize the ticking clock with our name.
> 
> I end this here and decline further discussion.


I can't concur with your concept SOCOM42. Those without the original prowess, never live to become has been's.


----------



## SAR-1L

M118LR said:


> First, Thanks for an apropos response SAR-1L. De-escalation either verbal or by posture, is only effective if it's used from a supposed position of control.


Without going into a full blown class on Alpha/Beta relationship behavior, de-escalation does not require a position of control.
Control is often #1 perceived, and #2 requires submission by the opposing party. You can have a gun to my head, and if you haven't pulled 
the trigger before I have had a chance to speak then you haven't killed me cause you want something from me.

From there I can choose to escalate the situation and potentially have a mind blowing experience, or I can de-escalate.
Most would argue that the man with the gun is in control of the situation. However if you can't obtain what you need from
any other source, and if no other chip is in play then it is the man with the desired object holding the gunman at ransom.



M118LR said:


> What are you using to simulate the experience of an active shooter?
> Provided you have enough repetitions you may be able to modify the reactions during an actual situation? But even Battle hardened Vets have been known to freeze at the most inopportune moments.


If you would like to know more about how I train for mental students conditioning I recommend taking my training.


----------



## M118LR

SAR-1L said:


> Without going into a full blown class on Alpha/Beta relationship behavior, de-escalation does not require a position of control.
> Control is often #1 perceived, and #2 requires submission by the opposing party. You can have a gun to my head, and if you haven't pulled
> the trigger before I have had a chance to speak then you haven't killed me cause you want something from me.
> 
> We seem to be having a distance and gun-smoke problem. This is a thread about how it's easier for folks to kill nowadays.
> 
> From there I can choose to escalate the situation and potentially have a mind blowing experience, or I can de-escalate.
> Most would argue that the man with the gun is in control of the situation. However if you can't obtain what you need from
> any other source, and if no other chip is in play then it is the man with the desired object holding the gunman at ransom.
> 
> If you would like to know more about how I train for mental students conditioning I recommend taking my training.


I don't believe that either of US would garnish much enjoyment if I acquiesced to your proposal. But are you offering this pro bono? Or is this just a blatant commercialism scheme?


----------



## SAR-1L

M118LR said:


> I don't believe that either of US would garnish much enjoyment if I acquiesced to your proposal. But are you offering this pro bono? Or is this just a blatant commercialism scheme?


It is neither, I am merely stating that I am not going to sit here and offer up more information to you for free over forum.
Hopefully you are done trying to twist my words, as I try to keep things positive, and a thread derailing pissing contest really doesn't suit my new style. 

P.S. No need to be a dick when you don't like my answer.


----------



## Coastie dad

Wise man say,
"Just because you have one, doesn't mean you have to be one."


----------



## M118LR

SAR-1L said:


> It is neither, I am merely stating that I am not going to sit here and offer up more information to you for free over forum.
> Hopefully you are done trying to twist my words, as I try to keep things positive, and a thread derailing pissing contest really doesn't suit my new style.
> 
> P.S. No need to be a dick when you don't like my answer.


Have you ever herd the mantra "It's not your choice"? (as information and experience is commonly shared pro bono on this forum) 
As your answer seems to be self serving, and you seem to expect monetary compensation, it appears that blatant commercialism is your sole motivation. So I don't believe that this Richard Cranium should share with you anything further without compensation. We can swap credentials on a secure net if need be.


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## Denton

> We can swap credentials on a secure net if need be


.

Good idea. Go find one. Until then...

this thread is locked. It'll be the last thread that is locked due to this crap.


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