# Water and Sewage during SHTF



## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

A while back, I researched this topic because I wanted to know: Will my faucets still run and will toilets still work after SHTF? The prepper consensus warns that faucet drinking water will probably cease and that, unless you have a septic tank, toilets will eventually back up somewhere along the line, if your area has no electricity. The actual answer is not so simple.

Water

Some areas pump their water from reservoirs into either aboveground towers or, as is true in my case, into gigantic underground cisterns located in a relatively high area. This allows water to flow downhill to homes, even when there is no electricity to pump it. Such areas might have some amount of faucet water weeks after electricity has ceased.

Sewage

In a municipal sewer system, the sewage from your house discharges into a central drain, which may directly flow downward to your area's sewage treatment plant, or, if it needs to go uphill, it will be electrically pumped there by a "lift station". If the sewage does arrive at a treatment plant, the plant cannot process the sewage and it will be discharged into the nearest large non-reservoir body of water or into a drainage field. If a lift station is required to pump it uphill to the sewage treatment plant, and the plant is not working, the sewage may build up and flow into an emergency discharge pipe, to the nearest large body of non-reservoir water or into a drainage field. If there isn't an emergency discharge pipe at the lift station, it may overflow into the street around it, or back into the lowest drain in your house if your house is on low ground. Some lift stations have backup generators, which would only be a temporary solution to the overflow problem.

So, in a municipal system, your water may still run and your toilets may still work, -but your waste is definitely going somewhere. And that somewhere is NOT a good place. If this happened in my city, Boston, the sewage would be discharged untreated directly into the ocean, bacterially polluting all sea life in our harbor. I would not eat it, -but I guarantee you there will be hundreds of thousands of people fishing/clamming there. A secondary runoff would be into our Charles river, where the population of inner Boston would go to get fresh water. Dysentery will be rampant from both sources.

It's a good idea to call your Water/Sewer Department to ask what would happen to your house if a blackout occurs for several weeks and generators fail, so you can plan ahead.

If anyone has better information about how municipal water and sewer systems would be affected during a "permanent" power outage, I'd like to hear what you know.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

Here’s a suggestion of what to do if sewage appears in your house’s lowest drain or toilet:

1)	Figure out a way to block your house’s main sewer line. (You might have a plumber’s “test ball” specifically for this purpose, or a mid-sized rubber ball you can inflate inside the sewer line, or plastic bags stuffed with cloth, etc.)
2)	Surround your main sewer line access hatch with rags to absorb overflow.
3)	Open your main sewer line access hatch.
4)	Stuff the blocking material into the side of the sewer line facing the street.
5)	Clean up the sewage spilled around your access hatch.
6)	If you want to continue to use your house’s sink drains (not your toilets) after that, dig a hole under the access hatch to catch and absorb your sink water that will flow into it from the open hatch.
7)	Tape a plastic sheet over the hole and the open access hatch to block its smell.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

My septic system will operate the same as it does now. Gravity system so no issue with having to block sewer lines. 

Potable Water from the rural water system will stop a week after the grid electricity goes down . The Water District has some generators but long term I do not expect them to continue to run unless it is just a local event. The gas will run out and water in the towers will be dry about that time perhaps a couple days longer. 

After that it is water from onsite well, ponds or rain catchment. No worries just hassle having to filter.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

RJAMES said:


> After that it is water from onsite well, ponds or rain catchment. No worries just hassle having to filter.


You have the tool to pull the pitless adapter from a well? IMO, any rural prepper should have one & know how to get down to that pure, cool water. A well bucket will come in mighty handy. Now I also keep solar panels & a flex well pump in storage, but that is a much bigger expense than a well bucket.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

We have one of those ole hand well pumps in storage. Along with plastic pipe to put down the well for fresh water. Could always get spring water with a little digging or just use the creek. 

Septic will be the old fashion way our fore fathers used. 

I somewhat feel sorry for the sheople in town. What a fricken disease ridden mess that will be in a week once power is gone.


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## Brettny (Apr 26, 2017)

Not all municipal water will stop. For instance NYC is mostly gravety feed water...but if you live there you got many other problems.

Not all wells have a pitless adapter. My casing comes out in a basement on my property. I had to install a well seal to stop it from flooding when the water table got high.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

The well is an older one with a "new" hand operated pump . It has never had a modern pump in it . Unsure if it is a much older well with a cap put on in 1965 or if the well was constructed in 65 . I think it was older and they poured a new cap for it. 

The house used a rain water collection system supplemented by water hauled in a truck from a nearby town when needed when I bought the place. The hand pump was broken. I but a new pump on , hooked up to rural public water as the water collecting cistern cracked and started leaking pretty bad . 

Have not done it yet but plan to place a plastic tank inside the old concrete tank so I can collect rainwater to at least use in the garden . I have barrels above ground now but no winter collection storage.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Water we have water the ground supply here will last until the end of the world and it is easy to get. Septic will work just fine with no power all I have to do is dig a small hole and open two values that by pass part of the modern system and convert it right back to gravity.
3 wells on property. Sand points will work here . some wells will flow on their own. Nothing is hooked up to city systems and never will be.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I have a creek and an old well if the municipal goes. Would like to add a cistern at some point. No public sewage. Just a septic tank. Lots of property to place an outhouse.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

We've discussed this before @TGus . No one could answer the basic question of: if the power goes out, is there enough fresh water stored in the supply system, that when it's all eventually down the drain, will it overfill the sewage system and come up into people's basements?

Older combined sewage and storm drain systems, like in Pittsburgh and probably Boston, will certainly overflow in the first heavy rain. Such systems have auto valves that open to the creeks (resulting in EPA fines), but who knows if the populace floods anyway.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

TGus said:


> A while back, I researched this topic because I wanted to know: Will my faucets still run and will toilets still work after SHTF? The prepper consensus warns that faucet drinking water will probably cease and that, unless you have a septic tank, toilets will eventually back up somewhere along the line, if your area has no electricity. The actual answer is not so simple.
> 
> Water
> 
> ...


See bolded comments above. I have owned and managed public water and wastewater systems.

The situation described will become dire very quickly and sanitary and health issued will arise immediately. You will not be able to depend on the utility company and should have an alternative water supply or back up stores, including a fillable bath tub bag or bob, that you fill as soon as the event occurs and before the water flow stops. You can utilize trash bags and lime to use in your existing toilet, however extreme discretion should be used in disposing the waste. Or ..... get a 5 gallon bucket. Either way, this is not a pretty situation.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Brettny said:


> Not all municipal water will stop. For instance NYC is mostly gravety feed water...but if you live there you got many other problems.
> 
> Not all wells have a pitless adapter. My casing comes out in a basement on my property. I had to install a well seal to stop it from flooding when the water table got high.
> View attachment 56562


I've always been under the impression that NYC water to high rises is pumped to the small water tower 
on the roof of the building (I see them in all the movies). My grandson's mother went thru Hurricane 
Sandy and was on 22 floor and lost all water. So with no power how does the water get up to those tanks 
so gravity will get it to you 30th floor apartment?


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

TGus said:


> Here's a suggestion of what to do if sewage appears in your house's lowest drain or toilet:
> 
> 1)	Figure out a way to block your house's main sewer line. (You might have a plumber's "test ball" specifically for this purpose, or a mid-sized rubber ball you can inflate inside the sewer line, or plastic bags stuffed with cloth, etc.)
> 2)	Surround your main sewer line access hatch with rags to absorb overflow.
> ...


I just pump out the septic tank


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

paraquack said:


> I've always been under the impression that NYC water to high rises is pumped to the small water tower
> on the roof of the building (I see them in all the movies). My grandson's mother went thru Hurricane
> Sandy and was on 22 floor and lost all water. So with no power how does the water get up to those tanks
> so gravity will get it to you 30th floor apartment?


During the 2 blackouts NYC experienced since 1964, once those tanks were used up, people above the 2nd floor had to fetch water from ground level.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I've always been under the impression that NYC water to high rises is pumped to the small water tower
> on the roof of the building (I see them in all the movies). My grandson's mother went thru Hurricane
> Sandy and was on 22 floor and lost all water. So with no power how does the water get up to those tanks
> so gravity will get it to you 30th floor apartment?


Brettny may have meant that the water falls from the reservoirs in the mountains in upstate NY, down to the city without electric power.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

A Watchman said:


> See bolded comments above. I have owned and managed public water and wastewater systems.
> 
> The situation described will become dire very quickly and sanitary and health issued will arise immediately. You will not be able to depend on the utility company and should have an alternative water supply or back up stores, including a fillable bath tub bag or bob, that you fill as soon as the event occurs and before the water flow stops. You can utilize trash bags and lime to use in your existing toilet, however extreme discretion should be used in disposing the waste. Or ..... get a 5 gallon bucket. Either way, this is not a pretty situation.


Thanks for the emboldened supplement. Did you see the first reply to this thread? Do you think that's the best way to do it?

Yeah, good idea. I'll line all my trash cans with cloth and double trash bags, and fill them with water as soon as possible. I already have 3 rain barrels.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

TGus said:


> Thanks for the emboldened supplement. Did you see the first reply to this thread? Do you think that's the best way to do it?
> 
> Yeah, good idea. I'll line all my trash cans with cloth and double trash bags, and fill them with water as soon as possible. I already have 3 rain barrels.


Here is what I recommend doing in all bathtubs to insure a supply of fresh water for use, when the existing water source is expected to cease to function. I would store rainwater as well outside.

https://waterbob.com/


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> Here is what I recommend doing in all bathtubs to insure a supply of fresh water for use, when the existing water source is expected to cease to function. I would store rainwater as well outside.
> 
> https://waterbob.com/


But...but...but...I don't have a tub.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> But...but...but...I don't have a tub.


Well, by Gosh .... get ya one, huh?


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## Brettny (Apr 26, 2017)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_water_supply_system


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I've got the Mississippi 2 miles away and a lake 4 blocks away. Humans have to have water, live where there is some.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

TGus said:


> Thanks for the emboldened supplement. *Did you see the first reply to this thread?* Do you think that's the best way to do it?


Please see above. It wasn't about a bathtub.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

1skrewsloose said:


> I've got the Mississippi 2 miles away and a lake 4 blocks away. Humans have to have water, live where there is some.


- Unless raw sewage is going into it.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Great. Now the Dear Teacher doesn't understand how a house in the U.S. works.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

TGus said:


> Thanks for the emboldened supplement. Did you see the first reply to this thread? Do you think that's the best way to do it?
> 
> Yeah, good idea. I'll line all my trash cans with cloth and double trash bags, and fill them with water as soon as possible. I already have 3 rain barrels.





TGus said:


> Please see above. It wasn't about a bathtub.


The first reply was from a guy on a septic tank and a private well. You my friend, will be knee deep in Bostonian sewage.


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## yooper_sjd (May 14, 2017)

TGus said:


> - Unless raw sewage is going into it.


Dearest Teacher; you can make a filter system using natural materials. Prepping 101 needs: Fire, Water, Shelter. IF you have a fire you are making a component for already for your filtering system, charcoal. And with this throw away society there is plenty of cast off trash for making a filtration system, plastic bottles, buckets, pails, cloth, ect....... some helpful info for you here Practical Primitive | Skill of the Month: Improvised Charcoal Water Filter

And once again referring back to what I consider the Prepping 101 needs Fire, water, shelter in just that order of priority, with the fire you can boil your water. And yes there are other ways to kill biological contaminants. bleach, iodine (tabs), ect......

Humans as a whole have survived for millennia, problem is with modern society the basics of primitive living are forgotten! And yes even biological waste contaminated water can be sanitized. Hell where do think the fish and animals go to the bathroom at??? I have made coffee from a spring where porkypine droppings were present in the water. Best coffee I ever drank! Oh that's right, the water gets boiled..........


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Water will be my biggest problem in a long term event. I wish I could justify having a well drilled, but there are just too many things that need to be done around here. A person has to live in the world that IS first, and then plan for what MIGHT BE second, least that is how I have it figured out.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

A Watchman said:


> The first reply was from a guy on a septic tank and a private well. You my friend, will be knee deep in Bostonian sewage.


The first reply was a description I wrote about how to deal with sewage coming up through the lowest house drain.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

yooper_sjd said:


> Dearest Teacher; you can make a filter system using natural materials. Prepping 101 needs: Fire, Water, Shelter. IF you have a fire you are making a component for already for your filtering system, charcoal. And with this throw away society there is plenty of cast off trash for making a filtration system, plastic bottles, buckets, pails, cloth, ect....... some helpful info for you here Practical Primitive | Skill of the Month: Improvised Charcoal Water Filter
> 
> And once again referring back to what I consider the Prepping 101 needs Fire, water, shelter in just that order of priority, with the fire you can boil your water. And yes there are other ways to kill biological contaminants. bleach, iodine (tabs), ect......
> 
> Humans as a whole have survived for millennia, problem is with modern society the basics of primitive living are forgotten! And yes even biological waste contaminated water can be sanitized. Hell where do think the fish and animals go to the bathroom at??? I have made coffee from a spring where porkypine droppings were present in the water. Best coffee I ever drank! Oh that's right, the water gets boiled..........


I completely agree with you. I was just alluding to the fact that the Mississippi is a looong river, and there'll be sewage entering it all the way from its source down to where 1skrewsloose lives. I wouldn't want to filter out all the turds floating by or chemically treat it, then drink that, even if it was boiled. If I got thirsty enough, maybe, -or used a ceramic filter. Better to collect rain water to drink. The lake might be a possibility, especially if it's a reservoir.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

Jammer Six said:


> Great. Now the Dear Teacher doesn't understand how a house in the U.S. works.


Sorry, I don't get what you meant. Could you explain yourself more clearly, so I can either disagree with it or learn something I don't know from you?

By the way, I only answer to the name "Shirley" now.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

Moonshinedave said:


> Water will be my biggest problem in a long term event. I wish I could justify having a well drilled, but there are just too many things that need to be done around here. A person has to live in the world that IS first, and then plan for what MIGHT BE second, least that is how I have it figured out.


"A person has to live in the world that IS first"

Good point, because you never know what extras you won't be able to keep.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

A Watchman said:


> The first reply was from a guy on a septic tank and a private well. You my friend, will be knee deep in Bostonian sewage.


I live in a relatively high area outside Boston, and as I said, Boston's sewage is going into the harbor and Charles river.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

TGus said:


> Sorry, I don't get what you meant. Could you explain yourself more clearly, so I can either disagree with it or learn something I don't know from you?


No.

You're the one who came here to teach. I came here to learn.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

Jammer Six said:


> No.
> 
> You're the one who came here to teach. I came here to learn.


We're ALL here to teach what we know and learn what we don't from each other.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

TGus said:


> We're ALL here to teach what we know and learn what we don't from each other.


But among us, you alone start threads to "teach". Then the rest of us point out that you're full of shit, particularly when you post about sewage.


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## yooper_sjd (May 14, 2017)

TGus said:


> I completely agree with you. I was just alluding to the fact that the Mississippi is a looong river, and there'll be sewage entering it all the way from its source down to where 1skrewsloose lives. I wouldn't want to filter out all the turds floating by or chemically treat it, then drink that, even if it was boiled. If I got thirsty enough, maybe, -or used a ceramic filter. Better to collect rain water to drink. The lake might be a possibility, especially if it's a reservoir.


The source of Mighty Miss is in central Minesotta, possibly able to scoop a cup and drink it with no problem. Have done this at a few lakes in the Upper Peninsula where I grew up. But then again swam in a mercury polluted river from mine run off as a kid, and there is no heavy metal poisoning in my system to this day. And actually your better off drinking from a lake than a reservoir where the water is restricted in flow. But once again, do you know how to make your own filter from charcoal from a firepit??? your cermic filter will only last so long ya know!


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

yooper_sjd said:


> The source of Mighty Miss is in central Minesotta, possibly able to scoop a cup and drink it with no problem. Have done this at a few lakes in the Upper Peninsula where I grew up. But then again swam in a mercury polluted river from mine run off as a kid, and there is no heavy metal poisoning in my system to this day. And actually your better off drinking from a lake than a reservoir where the water is restricted in flow. But once again, do you know how to make your own filter from charcoal from a firepit??? your cermic filter will only last so long ya know!


You're right; our "stuff" won't last forever. I've never done it, -and I DO need to work on that skill.


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## preppermyA (Aug 19, 2017)

I'm good for the short term at least. Well and septic. Have a small (8k) standby genset which runs off my 400 gallon propane tank for my floor furnace.
Runs the water pump, kitchen and one bedroom circuit. 
I don't know how long 400 gallons of propane will last; but I can always shut the gen off and only run it occasionally to keep the fridge and freezer going, and to fill up the tub, etc.
Still working on a manual pump setup.


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