# base of operations



## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

So the world is coming to an end.... some folks will bug out, some will bug in, some will perish some will marauder - what will you do long term?

This question has been on my mind recently and as a theoretical exercise, I started to think - what if along with my friends and family (those that I trust and bring in proper skills) want to setup a base of sorts. Quite a few of us live fairly close to each other, but not close enough to be of direct support. This puts us in a precarious position of folks either camping out together around a house, taking over neighbouring houses or something along those lines.

But what if we took over a motel or small apartment complex? The first is probably going to be easier as the likelihood of it being abandoned is higher then an apartment complex. What I'm thinking about (and started paying attention to places in my area) is something that tends to be naturally setup for a small compound. Built in a rectangular shape, with the ability to bring in cars into the inside of the rectangle, few to no windows to the outside of the rectangle, and most openings to the inside. This would give ability for multiple households to live there. Give you ability to defend it against marauders.

Downsides? Probably no kitchen, so if you wanted to run a mess you'd have to build something up. No workshops etc.... I'd have to move all my supplies, tools and the same goes for all the folks that'd join me. Also our houses would now be exposed to looters.

Anyways - wondering if anyone else was thinking about something along those lines


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Wedrownik said:


> So the world is coming to an end.... some folks will bug out, some will bug in, some will perish some will marauder - what will you do long term?
> 
> This question has been on my mind recently and as a theoretical exercise, I started to think - what if along with my friends and family (those that I trust and bring in proper skills) want to setup a base of sorts. Quite a few of us live fairly close to each other, but not close enough to be of direct support. This puts us in a precarious position of folks either camping out together around a house, taking over neighbouring houses or something along those lines.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it would make a nice book..but I dont dig too deep into following all the rabbit trails avaiable in speculating about hypothetical scenarios. My wife and the guy across the street love to ponder on it for long periods of time but us simple minded folks cant do it. Thanks. Im bugging in and saving the last round for myself.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I hear you, but if it's a scenario that will be long term - how long can you live in your house and keep guard and forage and hunt and provide security? There is a benefit to a small group of like minded folks banding together which brings the question of where and how


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

While I can't argue that bugging out has it benefits, so does bugging in. My supplies are already here. I have thought many hours about how to keep looters out. So far my plans are to strew about the front yarn my old computer, digital TV, old close I can't wear, and lastly I have placards warning of quarantine for my house and those next door. I live in the dessert, I have plenty of sand to fill bags to lime my walls. Other than that, stealth. Yes, I know if the water is lapping at the back door, I will have to bug out. But since I live about 2000 feet above the valley, I hope I won't have. Another plan to prevent people from sight seeing is to post FEMA signs, to lure them away from my subdivision.


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## ErickthePutz (Jan 10, 2021)

What about the people already there..?
You going to kick them out? Maybe they’ll just kill YOU and take YOUR stuff.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Long term will look more like pioneer living and less like The Walking Dead.
Apocalyptic fantasies have set our minds to think there will be bands of robbers "Mad Max-ing" it across the plains.
No... We will revert to simpler times when an unwelcome stranger was given a warning shot, followed up with a command to your oldest to have the shovel ready.
You'll know your neighbors again because they've been there as long as you and won't be leaving. Newcomers to town will get a sideways glance from everyone. Local law enforcement will be trustworthy or hanging high.

You don't have a claim to any hotel/motel, or other houses for that matter. Somebody does, and they won't much care about your reasons.


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## Crash5291 (Sep 18, 2019)

I'll bite as i spend my down time reading and enjoy getting others point of view on the subject. 

Another of your downsides would be that while each room is equipped with plumbing chances are high that it would not work. 

Here most hotels and apartment complexes are on municipal plumbing, so things like water would have to be sourced that's not to harsh most places, but waste would have a limited time before the sewage system was full. At that point you are then needing to build a sewage system. 

From a marauder standpoint an enclosed place like that would most likely be fairly easy to flush you out of, all it would require is fire. While windows may be to small to pass through, piercing a wall and injecting fire is not a tough thing to accomplish. 

For a group looking to find and secure a place my suggestion is a manufacturing facility. Sure you wont have individual rooms and such but that can be built up. What you do get is a taller building generally with a flat roof that is secured easily. Most of them have a decent wall height from the stone to the top of the wall to obscure movement. its simpler to add protection to. The roof allows for water catchment, and you can garden on it. Roof will allow a decent place to have an antenna or 2. The building will have few windows excluding the office area that will need blocking. It can be fairly simple to remain inconspicuous. The walls are generally protected from vehicles to an extent, with points of entry large enough to bring vehicles inside. They generally have ample cleared land all the way around making a little tougher to sneak up on. 

A warehouse would be akin to a store, it will be a target for gathering supplies for those who know of it. 

But it all comes down to your area, maybe you don't have much manufacturing, or the large lots are not a necessity as its wide open land with little in the way of trees and bush. you could be in a low population area, with little traffic.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

When the millions of city idiots swarm the country side like a wave of locust. All those plans will go out the window. I'm with Bigwheel.


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

Yea like one of those cement buildings that they put Satalite Communication equipment in. Or maybe a deserted Prison, Lots of way to secure people from getting in.


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## wraithofroncollins (10 mo ago)

Wedrownik said:


> So the world is coming to an end.... some folks will bug out, some will bug in, some will perish some will marauder - what will you do long term?


Whatever it takes... Here is my basic plan, 1. I am starting now. I write books and am focusing on the Survival Aspect of my books. I am also setting up a Network Marketing Program, so that I can we can spread the prepper philosophy by selling prepping books and other gear locally out of your house or at flea markets etc. And, your gear is a tax wrote off. 2. This network is planned to be able to become a local network for mutual defense, aid and assistance come SHTF. 



Wedrownik said:


> This question has been on my mind recently and as a theoretical exercise, I started to think - what if along with my friends and family (those that I trust and bring in proper skills) want to setup a base of sorts. Quite a few of us live fairly close to each other, but not close enough to be of direct support. This puts us in a precarious position of folks either camping out together around a house, taking over neighbouring houses or something along those lines.


Start by reaching out to your neighbors, using neighborhood watch and so on form small teams and, organize around that...



Wedrownik said:


> But what if we took over a motel or small apartment complex?


 Why? how many trips to move everything there and how will you sustain this community? Why not all you band together, buy some land in a rural area and put up pre-fab cabins and, market it as an LLC. Campsite and make some money off the place (now), compared to when/if SHTF (then).


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

wraithofroncollins said:


> ... Why? how many trips to move everything there and how will you sustain this community? Why not all you band together, buy some land in a rural area and put up pre-fab cabins and, market it as an LLC. Campsite and make some money off the place (now), compared to when/if SHTF (then).


You mean like this?






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## wraithofroncollins (10 mo ago)

I was thinking more like this... not remodeled AHAs.








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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

My biggest concern is that if I thought a certain place would be ideal someone else is probably thinking the same thing. We intend to stay stay where we are. We have worked very hard to get everything perfect for us. 

Our closest neighbor on both sides are elderly so we might borrow some of their land if they are gone. We have keys to both of the houses so we can care for their animals when they are away.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I hear y'all. Optimally I would not want to move. Practically I can see staying put problematic long term.

Neighbours... Well.... I can see some being engaged and adding value and others leaching. 

This is why I starting thinking through options of where to move to when SHTF where myself and folks that I know could setup the proverbial shop. 

Oh yeah: why post? To talk this through, to think it through so that when something happens I have a basis of discussion already done and I have a starting point to go forward in the plans.


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## Crash5291 (Sep 18, 2019)

Wedrownik said:


> . . . This is why I starting thinking through options of where to move to when SHTF where myself and folks that I know could setup the proverbial shop. . . .


While NONE of my family/friends are preppers, any most won't broach the subject the ones that will at least have some semblance of an idea. A few even have a half arsed plan should it be needed to get out of the high traffic/people area to somewhere they know that is remote(ish), luckily i guess they all agree on that location and its viable. They have the needed skills and even a decent run of general gear just no savings of supplies outside their standard stocking at home. 

I think in reality though the largest hurdle will be the loss of internet lol, even for myself in that regard. For that i have stored away a setup to access and play over 980 movies, and 250 different tv shoes consisting of over 7500 episodes. Just need 12v power. Packed away safe with some coms gear. 

I find it interesting to see the mindset others have being in forums, books or TV/Movies. To me its all a learning resource into the mindset of how one thinks it will play out. Some ideas being comical and some holding plausible merit. 

I think there is merit to the "what if" scenario as it puts you into thinking about a certain mindset and having other inject ideas and problems to challenge your thinking. 

My largest problem, my one kid lives just over 3500km away (~2200 miles) . . . no real tangible solution to solve that.
Cheers


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## Sherpa Bill (Dec 11, 2017)

Demitri.14 said:


> Yea like one of those cement buildings that they put Satalite Communication equipment in. Or maybe a deserted Prison, Lots of way to secure people from getting in.


Deserted Prison. That is a great idea however you would need a larger group.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

We worked hard for decades to be able to have our little farm in a rural area.
My wife and I will stay right here.
The only ones welcome would be our children and their families.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Interesting ideas. The prison one is a good one, but I think there the group would have to be sizeable to hold the compound. 

What I'm envisioning is a place where one could have group of three or four families live. 

Yes - preferred would be stay at home where you have all the supplies. But what if that becomes a problem? Fire, natural disaster, unrest could force your hand. Also not all of us are in a position where we could live on a farm or have a farm as backup in an area that's easily reachable. So hence this theoretical excercise. As I drive around over the last few days I started looking at the area in the vicinity of my house a little bit differently.

Anyways, getting back to the theorizing - I started eyeing schools. In theory when SHTF, schools will be abandoned. Quite a few have full blow kitchens setup, they have showers and classrooms that could be converted to living quarters. You have some perimeter security with inner and outer fences at some and the fields could be converted for agricultural needs. Assuming that water is not interrupted, you have watering capacity. If water is not available from the city infrastructure, couple schools in my area are near canals that have water flowing in them most of the year (contaminants could be an issue but that's a different topic).


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## wraithofroncollins (10 mo ago)

I'll live in a cave before I live in a prison...


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Been in a numerous prisons, some ain't so bad. Remember to check them for food and supplies. Most have a stock pile or large warehouse for emergencies. 

Food service semi driver, somebody will ask.


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

Without AC power cities would become HELL-HOLES quickly. Too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. Without AC power, where to get gasoline would be a problem the first day. Water and sewer would become a problem the 2nd or third day. It would take a team of 10 to 20 men to take and hold an apartment complex, in just a week think of how much food you would need to keep those men active. Sorry, I just don't see that working. As people flee the cities, they will find the country people don't take to strangers crossing their land, messing with their livestock or food crops. These country people have been living with guns since they could ride a bicycle, and they have tractors to help bury the bodies. Living out in the country I know all my neighbors, what cars or trucks they drive and their kids and dogs names. Who you know, who you can trust, will make the difference as our modern life falls apart.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

All valid points, but if you live in the city (without getting into specifics of my case, I have to live in the city) you have to make plans for that.

Regarding power: if there is solar, you can get power during the day. Some apartments in my neck of the woods have really nice solar setups. Also it does not get that cold in winter (does not drop below freezing  ) though granted - summers get hot.

So let's look at it a different way: if you have 3 to 4 families that live close enough to each other to be able to link up but they are not in the same neighborhood, how would you proceed in SHTF situation?


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## wraithofroncollins (10 mo ago)

Wedrownik said:


> All valid points, but if you live in the city (without getting into specifics of my case, I have to live in the city) you have to make plans for that.
> 
> Regarding power: if there is solar, you can get power during the day. Some apartments in my neck of the woods have really nice solar setups. Also it does not get that cold in winter (does not drop below freezing  ) though granted - summers get hot.
> 
> So let's look at it a different way: if you have 3 to 4 families that live close enough to each other to be able to link up but they are not in the same neighborhood, how would you proceed in SHTF situation?


OK here we are at a glance;
1. Get a 4x4 post and drill Holes in it, slide in some dowels to make it look like this...







You Need 3 minimum and if you drill out the holes now you can just add the screws by hand if your power drill doesn't work SHTF. Add some barb wire and you can isolate the ends of a hall in the apartment building, leaving on for you front door... This can fortify your position.

2. Add some hydroponics made from PVC pipe, fish tank pumps and a 5-gallon bucket. Or some variation there of.

3. Solar is one thing but, what about wind? If you have access to the roof you can set up a wind turbine & you can collect water in buckets or a barrel and, use a pressure valve to make a hydro-generator. Just use a screen to keep some of the mosquitos from laying eggs in the water.

4. Everyone needs to learn and practice some basic tactical skills, urban combat stuff and, run a drills together. Use airsoft guns to practice low key and, develop an SOP for falling back to to and from your homes. There are 4 right..? We'll call them H1, H2, H3 and H4. How will you abandon H1 and move to each one under threat of civil unrest? High crime? Nuclear fallout? The point is you need a plan, you need to drill your plan, you need to communicate (radios) and you need to practice everything before SHTF. Run different scenarios... Bug-Out from work on foot and get back to your home (H1?) stopping at other Houses along the way to get there. Who will be there if anyone during such a thing..?

5. Connect with your neighbors, find some people who are like minded and see what you can do as Neighborhood Watch or HOA, whatever...


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

Wedrownik said:


> Interesting ideas. The prison one is a good one, but I think there the group would have to be sizeable to hold the compound.
> 
> What I'm envisioning is a place where one could have group of three or four families live.
> 
> ...


I Was being sarcastic, There were 1 or 2 seasons on Walking Dead where they held up in a prison 

I want to be someplace where the likelihood of someone finding me would be minimal. Prisons will attract attention.


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## Crash5291 (Sep 18, 2019)

Another thought to apartment buildings is you need to control the high ground, and buildings in he vicinity give others a place to hide for recon on your group and also a place to shoot from. The first few shots will be deadly as they will have the cover and seclusion to take their time and set the shots up.

I spent a while looking Kingston Ontario that is a ways from me, and there are a couple options BUT it requires a decent group size to secure mainly as you are securing multiple buildings.

One spot is a 3 building cluster, good layout to use the southern balconies for solar. open clear roofs with good sightlines (after a few trees are removed) they are 13/17/17 stories and close enough you could string wire between for hardline coms with a basic PBX setup, or a little more work a voip setup. Would also allow for a couple decent size end fed antenna's for HF comms. Decent grounds to the south in the sun for gardens and the lake is right there for unlimited water. possibility is also there to make a wind powered water pump setup (think old school farms) Golf course to the north for more green space and open viewing from the roofs. The draw back to this setup is the securement of the bottom floors of the buildings so much glass it would be a major effort to sort out. 

There is also a group of 6 building over off 15hwy that would provide great coverage for a large group with water nearby. few guys with saws/axes and horses could clear out good sightlines pretty decent. again you'd need to secure lots of glass on the bottom floors no easy way to make this work really. you'd be looking at something like 20 men per shift to give basic security to this place. Lots of floors to you'll get your exercise lol something this sized would need decent coms to secure too 

As for the prisons mentioned above, Kingston has a few, one ins empty now the Kingston Penitentiary (max security) its fully stone walled, at the edge of the lake and has roughly 12-13 acre inside the walls. The draw back is that some of the walls are open to simple attack from a vehicle. has towers BUT they are not designed for keeping the outside out, but the inside in. so you would have to augment them to keep your guys safe from attack. 

Then you have Collins Bay, currently active (medium security). with a walled in area of roughly 27 Acre and lots of open green outside the walls to grow whatever. Water is not far away 


Anyways as was said by others big places require more manpower to secure, how many can you afford? 

Cheers


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