# Should we revert to wood power?



## BritishPrepper (10 mo ago)

With the rising costs of household bills in America and Europe, should we be thinking about installing wood fired boilers and heating systems in our homes and take one step off the grid without actually being off the grid? I've looked into wood gas generators but they don't seem particularly efficient. 

Does anyone have an actual heating system that they add wood to to heat the home, and cook the food on top of it? Is there anything that has been invented, or that could be created bespoke, that burning wood creates electricity - such as boiling water that turns a steam turbine? 

You would have no electric or gas bills, and all you would have to do is ensure you have enough wood stored, which would be free. 

Looks as if the UK government is trying to prohibit the population from using certain kinds of wood.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I assume you've never felled a tree, cut and then split the wood, all by hand. I did it for a week when I was a teen. You might be lucky and be able to find downed limbs to burn, but you still have haul whatever you get, beack to your shelter. Stacked it to dry for a year. While some people have the necessary trees to use, some of us do not.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Been burning wood to heat the house for nearly 40 years. 50 years if you count helping dad when I was a kid. It's not a big deal if you know what your doing.

In fact the house is currently 72 degrees with free wood heat, NO electricity. LMAO every time I see the propane truck go by.

They make solar panels for electricity.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Years ago, I spent one winter in a high mountain cabin. We heated the small house with wood/fireplace. I was careful not to burn much during the days when I was home alone. As soon as the kids came home from school, I stoked up the fire. We burned a cord of wood every three weeks. By the end of winter, we resorted to burning green wood because it was all we could get our hands on. We had a permit from the national forest service to cut, fell, and haul dead and fallen trees. But the snow became so deep, it was very difficult to get, even though we stocked up well before the first snow.

If enough people turn to wood, it will eventually run out just like any other fuel.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

i would love to have a wood stove to heat the house, but my wife has asthma and escaping smoke would probably kill her.


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## wraithofroncollins (10 mo ago)

Have fun the Green People will probably try to carbon tax you for it...


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

If we all started burning wood tomorrow, how long before there's nothing left to burn?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

On my property we've been burning for 50 years and there is still more going to waste then I'm using. I'll never burn it all up in my life time. 

Problem isn't the tree's or amount of them. It's these idiots that NEED a 3000 plus square foot house. 

100 years ago we did all burn wood.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Chipper said:


> On my property we've been burning for 50 years and there is still more going to waste then I'm using. I'll never burn it all up in my life time.
> 
> Problem isn't the tree's or amount of them. It's these idiots that NEED a 3000 plus square foot house.
> 
> 100 years ago we did all burn wood.


But what was the population back then? And not everyone did. Some used petroleum products or coal. I grew up in a house built in 1912 that had heating oil for the furnace. It had been converted from coal because the old coal chute was still on the side of the house.


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## BritishPrepper (10 mo ago)

Yeah this is the thing, but I mean preppers really as the general population isn't going to have the impetus to do all that kind of work, they probably think the gas and electric bills will return to normal at some stage. I think there's quite a lot of trees around whichever country you live in, except Iceland maybe, and anyone should be able to find enough if not that many people are doing it. One large tree would last a fair while I think, and as for the time and effort to chop it and transport, well it has to be good for the body. One of you mentioned stacking it for a year, so this is something you'd have to get on top of well before any SHTF event I'm assuming.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Have you ever cut down a tree? Cut it up, chopped it, stacked it and burned it?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> If we all started burning wood tomorrow, how long before there's nothing left to burn?


Trees are a renewable resource.
Where we live pine trees are grown in rows like corn.
Tens of thousands of acres.
All to make paper and those bags of mulch everyone buys for their suburban yards.

Yes, i realize that pines can not be used in fireplaces or stoves due to high creosote, but hardwoods are grown like this as well for lumber. There's some nice oak and poplar that are cut up and used to build pallets.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

To be fair, if we all burned wood, we all won't become lumberjacks. There will be those who will, and convert their skill into a marketable trade.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Trees are a renewable resource.
> Where we live pine trees are grown in rows like corn.
> Tens of thousands of acres.
> All to make paper and those bags of mulch everyone buys for their suburban yards.
> ...


Yet we are still losing forests.


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## BritishPrepper (10 mo ago)

Auntie said:


> Have you ever cut down a tree? Cut it up, chopped it, stacked it and burned it?


No, but in SHTF when you don't have anything else to do if you've already got your food and water and shelter sorted it wouldn't really matter how much effort was required as you could do it over several days and rest when you wanted. Plus if you have family members or a group to help, or a horse to pull etc. A chainsaw would make quick work of the whole task if there was fuel for it (but I have seen electric ones too which could be solar charged from generator) or if not a two-man saw would be possible. Don't really need to process a giant redwood here, there's millions of little ones that would work just as well and use far less energy. I mean, it's only to fuel your fire.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

The house I grew up and currently live in, had the coal furnace in it. Took up half the basement. We never burned coal in it. We burned the free wood on our property. Yes the coal chute is still there. 

You could say I've cut up a few tree's. This is next years supply on the far end and about 3-5 years more stock piled. With many decades in reserve just behind it.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

We use about 3 to 4 cords a year. This takes more than a few hours and a lot of energy. Waiting until you have to do it will be a problem because you need dry wood.

@Chipper Very nice! I can only dream of that much.


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## ErickthePutz (Jan 10, 2021)

Guess you haven’t factored in the immediate increase in air pollution and respiratory problems.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

BritishPrepper said:


> No, but in SHTF when you don't have anything else to do if you've already got your food and water and shelter sorted it wouldn't really matter how much effort was required as you could do it over several days and rest when you wanted. Plus if you have family members or a group to help, or a horse to pull etc. A chainsaw would make quick work of the whole task if there was fuel for it (but I have seen electric ones too which could be solar charged from generator) or if not a two-man saw would be possible. Don't really need to process a giant redwood here, there's millions of little ones that would work just as well and use far less energy. I mean, it's only to fuel your fire.


You're not going from 30-40ft standing tree to fireplace logs off anything that is charged via solar. Let alone anything as tall as a Pine.
I can only assume you're close to what we call "a city boy", and don't have a clear concept of what manual labor actually takes. You have an idea, but no real application.
Felling a decent tree by hand and chopping it to cord wood, despite determination, would take an unskilled person well over a week. You'll hurt in places you didn't know could hurt. Your blisters will have blisters. You'll eat anything you can get your hands on and drink 5 gallons of water a day. You'll sleep like a rock too, regardless of your watch duties. It will take all of your time and you'll be useless for much else.
One tree will cost you way more than you know.
You'll get better with practice. But will your supplies last?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

What Kauboy said!


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

BritishPrepper said:


> I think there's quite a lot of trees around whichever country you live in ... and anyone should be able to find enough if not that many people are doing it.


First, "quite a alot of trees around" is a very broad statement. A few people on here are fortunate enough to have that kind of access; I would venture to say most do not. If it is a SHTF/grid down scenario, getting access and hauling it would probably be a HUGE problem for most people. I have 2/3 of a cord stored in a locked shed. I notice a neighbor has about 8-10 cords on their property, easily visible and accessible from the street. When people start running out, I am certain they will be helping themselves to that wood. When I consider buying several more cords, the problem is where to store it on my small lot that isn't visible and is protected from weather and thieves.

As for the work involved, as others here have stated, been-there-done-that -- 40 years ago. The words "a wedge and a sledge" give me the shivers!


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## BritishPrepper (10 mo ago)

No, not a city boy at all, just have never had the need to cut for a fire other than at grandparents house over the summer where we used to process a fair bit of wood. Was talking about smaller trees not something of that height and here in the UK we're not allowed to just cut down whatever we want as most of the land is privately owned in some form. Nope I didn't mean a solar chainsaw, an electric chainsaw that can be charged up again I was meaning, so as not to use fuel. For example a tree with a diameter of 20 inches or less (like the majority where I live) and a height of maybe 20ft would only require a handful of chainsaw cuts up its length and then split with an axe or even the chainsaw still. The hard physical labour you're talking about is only if you have nothing like that to help you and you just have to use a hand saw or something similar.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

BritishPrepper said:


> No, not a city boy at all, just have never had the need to cut for a fire other than at grandparents house over the summer where we used to process a fair bit of wood. Was talking about smaller trees not something of that height and here in the UK we're not allowed to just cut down whatever we want as most of the land is privately owned in some form. Nope I didn't mean a solar chainsaw, an electric chainsaw that can be charged up again I was meaning, so as not to use fuel. For example a tree with a diameter of 20 inches or less (like the majority where I live) and a height of maybe 20ft would only require a handful of chainsaw cuts up its length and then split with an axe or even the chainsaw still. The hard physical labour you're talking about is only if you have nothing like that to help you and you just have to use a hand saw or something similar.


I know what you meant with the electric chainsaw, and my point was, you're not getting through an entire tree with such a device. The charging alone will take more time than the cutting. And the subtle irony will be that you'll have to convert the DC power of the PV cells to AC power for the battery charger, which converts it back to DC for the battery, losing power during the conversion.
That chainsaw will only last as long as its power, lubrication, and sharpness are maintained. If any of these fail, and they will in the course of just one tree, you're in a bind (maybe literally).
The only long-term solution to wood gathering will be hand tools that can be fashioned and sharpened without specialty equipment. Days of labor should be expected.

Most places don't allow cutting down whatever you want. Nearly all land is privately owned or government protected. If we're talking post-SHTF, those parks will be overrun with people pretending they can "live off the land" with the rest of their herd of city evacuees. Foliage will be stripped bare within weeks.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Being a wood carver, I am all in favor of wooden devices, even armor. I mean, did you ever listen to "Davy Crockett" or his kin "Daniel Boone"? Yeah, it's the same guy, but anyone else here ready to back up The Alamo? Yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking. Crockett took on all of Mexico and my friends were only brave with Tequila. 

I'll tell you this, I do know how to carefully man-handle wood for carving. Truth is, it takes me the morning and/or into the afternoon to finish properly angling a blade for wood. So, give a cutler some wood and a decent knife, and I'll show the "_meanness, mightist, fightenist man the frontier ever knew..._"


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## Sherpa Bill (Dec 11, 2017)

Back Pack Hack said:


> But what was the population back then? And not everyone did. Some used petroleum products or coal. I grew up in a house built in 1912 that had heating oil for the furnace. It had been converted from coal because the old coal chute was still on the side of the house.


Q. What would be the population if we were at the point of needing wood to survive? Answer: About 95% less than now.


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## Crash5291 (Sep 18, 2019)

Rechargeable saw, maybe for limbing in your yard. One you start biting into real processing you will be kicking yourself. 
Been doing firewood for over 30 years, burning a face a week on the warmer weeks double if its bitter cold. 90% of that burnt was green. Thinking about what we cut, its likely a LOT more then a face as we cut wood in the 30-36" lengths for anything under 12-14" across, and 24" lengths when its larger and needs split. 

I'd never take on firewood like that without a chainsaw. we tried to avoid stuff that needed splitting and generally that worked out fine on 75 acre, with little visible "deforestation" we move areas yearly and are reworking area's we already did. 

Do i recommend our way, hell no. 

Wood fired steam for hydro generation isn't a task for the general population, steam under decent pressure to drive that generator is not a thing to be trifled with. Now that said steam could be used for a lot of useful things. Heating, hot water, Engines to drive pumps, mills and various tools. I imagine you could also build a fridge with it as well using it similar to a propane fridge. Might be worth looking into burning corn for fuel as well, not sure how well that would work though. 

I could see the headlines now "corn fired tractor harvests its own fuel" lol 
When i looked into it a few years back corn and wood were close to the same BTU/LB 
Corn is 8000-8500 btu/lb with wood being roughly the same, 1lb of anthracite is roughly 12k btu/lb


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## PreparenowLastout (Jul 11, 2021)

BritishPrepper said:


> With the rising costs of household bills in America and Europe, should we be thinking about installing wood fired boilers and heating systems in our homes and take one step off the grid without actually being off the grid? I've looked into wood gas generators but they don't seem particularly efficient.
> 
> Does anyone have an actual heating system that they add wood to to heat the home, and cook the food on top of it? Is there anything that has been invented, or that could be created bespoke, that burning wood creates electricity - such as boiling water that turns a steam turbine?
> 
> ...


had this idea because these wood burning stoves are for people with money:

garbage can filled with dirt
dig out a south dakota fire pit (chimney part might need finaggling)
find something for the smoke to exit out of (not sure about this, hard, I have a lot of pvc pipping tho lol)
cut into top of can and have outlet run out of that for the smoke
(you'll have to get the smoke to clear out far away from sidding of the house

I think food, hot water should be doable from that


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## PreparenowLastout (Jul 11, 2021)

paraquack said:


> I assume you've never felled a tree, cut and then split the wood, all by hand. I did it for a week when I was a teen. You might be lucky and be able to find downed limbs to burn, but you still have haul whatever you get, beack to your shelter. Stacked it to dry for a year. While some people have the necessary trees to use, some of us do not.


doesn't need to dry for a year come on


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## Spenser (5 mo ago)

*BP *first i want to talk about the elephant in the room & the irony, as your Initials is same as BP gasoline/oil company and you are wanting to switch from gas to wood. Now that's humorous...

I was not raised as a city boy as the people here refer them as. Downing a tree without a lot of experience is a great way to kill yourself. You just don't start cutting away with a chainsaw or axe and expect it to fall where you want or fall in general (trying to cut straight through like a noob and getting the blade sandwiched within the tree).

You are cutting the tree on opposite sides at different heights. Even experienced tree cutters have had now n then the tree jackknife as it fell.

SO you have a chainsaw so getting firewood will be easy right? Ok it takes time to cut down a tree, then to clear the branches, then it takes time to start cutting the tree into sections. But that is pretty much where the chainsaw ends and the splitting axe or wedge comes into play.

Not knowing how to swing an axe is liable to get you seriously hurt. If you are smart you have a log horizontal in front of your feet so if you miss your target the axe swings into the log vs your leg. Next you get a section of the tree and use it as a base. Then you put another section on top of it, this is what you are going to be splitting. This is 3 different jobs, 1st splitting it in half, and then halving the remaining two pieces.

Now you are hauling this back to your home.

You want to save the trees closest to your home for winter time so never use the trees close to home any time other then your winters. When it snows, that just made your life much harder to cut wood.

Now let's not forget maintenance: sharpening the chainsaw chain & the axe, and learning how to replace the handle to the axe as being a 1st timer, you are definitely going to crack the handle.

I spent a month in December in the Catskill Mountains at our family log cabin in the mountains that was built partially on stilts that had no electricity or running water with a fireplace and wood burning stove/heater.

I spent hours a day pulling large sections of trees down the hill, cutting them into smaller sections then splitting the wood and then piling them near the cabin. This was a daily chore to remain warm, and i lost like 10 lbs. that month from all the manual labor.

If you think it is easy, think again it is hard work. I remember while i was doing all this work cutting & splitting of an 18 hour day I had in the Moving business and thinking to myself, wow this is so much more work then that 18 hour day, (and that day also included a Grand Piano, frig, freezer, and stairs).


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