# Masks



## rmcmurry (Jan 29, 2016)

So with the shortages of medical masks during the coronavirus, I see a lot of people on FaceBook talking about sewing cloth masks for donation to doctors offices, EMT's, and family and friends. My wife, who is an RN and works in ICU, doesn't think much of the idea. I know I have read that home made masks, mostly made from cotton, are not sanitary. The natural holes in the material will allow microscopic contaminates to pass through. So what's the truth? Would you trust a homemade mask?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

(Shrugs) Can't hurt. I figure it beats having someone sneeze in my face--or me sneezing/coughing into someone else's space.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

rmcmurry said:


> So with the shortages of medical masks during the coronavirus, I see a lot of people on FaceBook talking about sewing cloth masks for donation to doctors offices, EMT's, and family and friends. My wife, who is an RN and works in ICU, doesn't think much of the idea. I know I have read that home made masks, mostly made from cotton, are not sanitary. The natural holes in the material will allow microscopic contaminates to pass through. So what's the truth? Would you trust a homemade mask?


I guess I would say get more information on what is needed. There is no reason to make masks that will not protect anyone. Or even worse, make them and someone wears it thinking it's safe and it's not. They are practically throwing themselves in harm's way.

I love that you want to help, but I wouldn't make it from the information you see on Facebook. Let us know if you find any good information on the topic.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Any port in a storm, as they say.
Better'n nothing, as they say.
Whatever works, as they say.
Can't hurt, as they say.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Sorry, I disagree with the doesn't hurt idea. People will have a false sense of protection if the mask isn't made of these proper materials. Do your homework before you handout masks. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Mish said:


> Sorry, I disagree with the doesn't hurt idea. People will have a false sense of protection if the mask isn't made of these proper materials. Do your homework before you handout masks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


If you hand someone a basic cloth mask and tell them, "Here, wear this and you're perfectly safe", yeah that's a problem.

If you hand someone a basic cloth mask and tell them, "Here, wear this. It's not perfect, but it's the best we've got right now".

Huge difference.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

This shit just gets stupider and stupider every day.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Surgical masks aren't expected to filter out airborne germs. That isn't their purpose.
Their purpose is to block spray, droplets, and squirts. They are only intended to protect from a cough/sneeze to the face, or blood spray from a wound.

Respirators, on the other hand, are fully intended to block airborne pathogens according to their raiting.

Homemade masks, known not to be respirators, should work just as well as normal paper masks. If they get saturated, they should be replaced.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> Surgical masks aren't expected to filter out airborne germs. That isn't their purpose.
> Their purpose is to block spray, droplets, and squirts. They are only intended to protect from a cough/sneeze to the face, or blood spray from a wound.
> 
> Respirators, on the other hand, are fully intended to block airborne pathogens according to their raiting.
> ...


Agree.

Ya know, it's not like the virus is made of microscopic metal attracted to your magnetic personality.. fighting it's way in to you. 

IMO, if a mask is 'tight enough' to keep the covid's carrier (sneeze droplet whatever) off your face, it's doing a decent job. 

If nothing else, any mask will help you keep your own pickin hands away from your nose/mouth.​


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

The Providence system was actively recruiting home sewists to make surgical masks from materials they provided, so there must be some need for them. (A local business stepped up and offered to manufacture all the needed masks so the home sewists are on standby.) I heard somewhere that health care workers can wear surgical masks over the N95 masks so that the N95s don't have to be discarded after every patient.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Some of the millions of Americans who*remain relegated to their homes due to shelter-in-place orders*are using that time to sew and assemble masks out of spare and recycled fabric, elastic and other materials.*

Experts advise, however, that while the homemade alternatives can create a loose-fitting barrier that may mitigate the spread of some germs, they are not designed to block the spread of COVID-19, the official name of the pandemic that has swept the globe.

"The only mask that the CDC considers safe from you getting the coronavirus, the only way to actually prevent you from inhaling it, is the N95 mask,"*Captain Michael Doyle, a U.S. Army New York National Guard physician assistant, told USA TODAY. Doyle is the commanding officer at the drive-in coronavirus testing site in New Rochelle, New York.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...sks-do-they-actually-block-spread/2899622001/

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Mish said:


> Some of the millions of Americans who*remain relegated to their homes due to shelter-in-place orders*are using that time to sew and assemble masks out of spare and recycled fabric, elastic and other materials.*
> 
> Experts advise, however, that while the homemade alternatives can create a loose-fitting barrier that may mitigate the spread of some germs, they are not designed to block the spread of COVID-19, the official name of the pandemic that has swept the globe.
> 
> ...


Masks are needed for the entire industry. Not just those dealing with COVID patients.
We aren't discussing making masks to prevent infectious disease workers from spreading COVID. We are discussing supplying an entire industry with replacement masks for their regular duties.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> This shit just gets stupider and stupider every day.


A friend told me there wasn't even cat food at the Troy Walmart.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Denton said:


> A friend told me there wasn't even cat food at the Troy Walmart.


Being a die hard prepper, I have plenty on hand for the cat, enough to run into the end of September.

That is just canned food, comes in 48 can cases, then there is the dry food.

Now with the dogs, an even longer supply of food a year plus I would guess,

longer if they eat any intruders that were terminated in whatever manner, fang or HS projectile.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I stocked up on masks well before this pandemic. Going to donate most of my stash to our local healthcare providers. Never saw this shortage coming. Keeping a couple dozen for ourselves.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Denton said:


> A friend told me there wasn't even cat food at the Troy Walmart.


Ya know somtimes us old folks on a limited income have to resort to cat food right?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

hawgrider said:


> Ya know somtimes us old folks on a limited income have to resort to cat food right?


If it came down to it, I would share either way,

I do have hundreds of cans of sardines, mackerel and oysters,we can all eat if needed.

I hate freshwater fish, and I live on a lake,

it would take a lot of hunger and Texas Pete for me to eat the bass and pike in the lake.

I would clean out the snappers first, after the turkeys and ducks.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

hawgrider said:


> Ya know somtimes us old folks on a limited income have to resort to cat food right?


Hawg, really now..After all those delicious looking pics you've shared of your smoked/bbq meals? All I ca n say is: what?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> If it came down to it, I would share either way,
> 
> I do have hundreds of cans of sardines, mackerel and oysters,we can all eat if needed.
> 
> ...


My puppy dogs loves them some sardines. It make their coats shiny.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Just don't feed your best friend "Old Roy", or he will be dead in a year. For sure.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Annie said:


> My puppy dogs loves them some sardines. It make their coats shiny.


We give each a teaspoon of coconut oil every day to them for that reason and it helps the GI track.

Would not touch old roy with a stick either.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Coconut oil is also an anti fungal, so it's good for dogs that have yeast issues.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

SOCOM42 said:


> Being a die hard prepper,
> Now with the dogs, an even longer supply of food a year plus I would guess,


With my year long experiment of dry dog food I found that of the 4 major brands tried the longest lasting was Purina 1, It went 10 months in 60-80 degree tempature in the house tempature before the oils went bad and the dogs refused to eat it and began to lose weight. The other brands of dry dog food began to go rancid within 6-8 months As I'm sure you know a dry dog food has oils in it which go rancid with time.

What brand of dog food do you use that lasts for over a year? 
I have the same problem with chicken feed going bad after 6-7 months so any suggestions with chicken feed would also be useful.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Elvis said:


> ...........What brand of dog food do you use that lasts for over a year? .....


I walked down the dog & cat food aisle at WalMart once, and every bag of dry food had a date that was at least 1 year away. Some were 18 months out.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Elvis said:


> With my year long experiment of dry dog food I found that of the 4 major brands tried the longest lasting was Purina 1, It went 10 months in 60-80 degree tempature in the house tempature before the oils went bad and the dogs refused to eat it and began to lose weight. The other brands of dry dog food began to go rancid within 6-8 months As I'm sure you know a dry dog food has oils in it which go rancid with time.
> 
> What brand of dog food do you use that lasts for over a year?
> I have the same problem with chicken feed going bad after 6-7 months so any suggestions with chicken feed would also be useful.


I use the purina for mine,

The difference here is that the bags are subjected to freezing and near freezing conditions for 6 months out of a year.

There is only 2 days worth of food for them in the home at any time.

They, the bags, are marked and used in date order and don't run much over 16 months storage if that.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Mish said:


> Some of the millions of Americans who*remain relegated to their homes due to shelter-in-place orders*are using that time to sew and assemble masks out of spare and recycled fabric, elastic and other materials.*
> 
> Experts advise, however, that while the homemade alternatives can create a loose-fitting barrier that may mitigate the spread of some germs, they are not designed to block the spread of COVID-19, the official name of the pandemic that has swept the globe.
> 
> ...


We've kept a good supply of the 3M 1860 medical masks the last few years and have mailed or delivered some to our older family members the last 2 weeks. At this point we are keeping the remaining masks for our personal use. immediate family only at this point.

Preppers prep. Instead of fancy vacations we took lessor vacations, ate out less. and used the cash to buy preps like good N-95 masks.


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## WolfBrother (Mar 15, 2016)

Everything I've read has not indicated that the Wuhan virus is airborne. As in the virus itself is floating in the air.
Everything I've read has indicated that the Wuhan virus is aerosol borne. As in the tiny droplets and such that are sneezed and coughed out.
Everything I've read has indicated that the primary way of transmission of the Wuhan virus is from contaminated hands touching the face (mouth, nose, eyes).

The homemade masks at the very least keep dirty hands from mouth and nose.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> I walked down the dog & cat food aisle at WalMart once, and every bag of dry food had a date that was at least 1 year away. Some were 18 months out.


I literally just got out of bed and looked and the bags of dog food we have here don't have a Use By date on them, and I've never seen a Use By date on any dog food I've ever purchased. I can't even imagine trying to store a year's worth of food for my dogs. They go through about 50 pounds a month and I just don't have the room. I fed the dogs kibble that was at least nine months old. It didn't smell rancid. The dogs ate it and it didn't make them sick.


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)




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## rmcmurry (Jan 29, 2016)

Well this tread bounced around! LOL. As to the dog food, back 15 years ago when I had a black Lab, we would buy big plastic boxes of Milk Bones at Sams. Several times we had to throw away 1/2 to 3/4 of a new box because they developed some little critters! Some type of bug looking thing and also something like fruit flies. And these containers closed tightly and seemed to have a gasket. Didn't happen every time though.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

paulag1955 said:


> I literally just got out of bed and looked and the bags of dog food we have here don't have a Use By date on them, and I've never seen a Use By date on any dog food I've ever purchased. I can't even imagine trying to store a year's worth of food for my dogs. They go through about 50 pounds a month and I just don't have the room. I fed the dogs kibble that was at least nine months old. It didn't smell rancid. The dogs ate it and it didn't make them sick.


Maybe you need to look a little harder. These were taken Sept 17 2016.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Maybe you need to look a little harder. These were taken Sept 17 2016.
> 
> View attachment 104747


I may have missed it in the past, but there is definitely no Use By date on the bags of kibble I have here now.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I have a niosh respirator with new cartridges. I wonder if it will stop a virus. I bet it will. It's for painting cars.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

csi-tech said:


> I have a niosh respirator with new cartridges. I wonder if it will stop a virus. I bet it will. It's for painting cars.


Same, but I'm not going to wear that to the supermarket.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

paulag1955 said:


> Same, but I'm not going to wear that to the supermarket.


Yeah, don't want to look like Darth Vader. I have lots of disposable masks. Nice to have on hand though.


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## WolfBrother (Mar 15, 2016)

Demitri.14 said:


> View attachment 104727


??? a Thong repurposed ???


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

WolfBrother said:


> ??? a Thong repurposed ???


Better than a jock strap.....lain:


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Better than a jock strap.....lain:


Not really. Equally disgusting either way.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Went to the emergency room yesterday and they made me put on a flimsy little paper mask to check in, not much thicker than a paper towel that didn't seal well to my face so apparently that's enough to seriously minimize coughing spread. But in the ER room the nurse came in with a serious thick mask wearing a face shield and paper robe.

I've given some of our good masks to older family members. After the mask shortage ends we intend to get more high quality medical masks.
3M 8020 mask


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## OrneryOldBat (Feb 10, 2017)

This is the best DIY mask pattern I've seen. It's not as good as a N95 mask, but it still is head and shoulders above a simple cloth mask. You can use non-woven interfacing for the filter media - which most sewers are likely to have on hand.

Important- Make sure you make the sides from different material. You need to be able to tell at a glance which side is clean (towards face) and which side is dirty (towards everyone else)

Directions
Pattern


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

OrneryOldBat said:


> This is the best DIY mask pattern I've seen. It's not as good as a N95 mask, but it still is head and shoulders above a simple cloth mask. You can use non-woven interfacing for the filter media - which most sewers are likely to have on hand.
> 
> Important- Make sure you make the sides from different material. You need to be able to tell at a glance which side is clean (towards face) and which side is dirty (towards everyone else)
> 
> ...


People are clever.
My mother decided to set out on making her own masks. She found a plan that includes a HEPA certified vacuum bag as a component. For those unaware, HEPA certification is granted when a material can block 99.97% of particles that are 0.3 microns in size. Yes, that makes it an "N99" equivalent.
So, she is making pretty much the same masks shown in the links you gave, but adding a cut out filter from the vacuum bag in between the layers.
It's just cloth, so "sealing" isn't possible. But they will certainly do more than cotton alone.
I think she found the idea on Pintrest.

People are clever...


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> People are clever.
> My mother decided to set out on making her own masks. She found a plan that includes a HEPA certified vacuum bag as a component. For those unaware, HEPA certification is granted when a material can block 99.97% of particles that are 0.3 microns in size. Yes, that makes it an "N99" equivalent.
> So, she is making pretty much the same masks shown in the links you gave, but adding a cut out filter from the vacuum bag in between the layers.
> It's just cloth, so "sealing" isn't possible. But they will certainly do more than cotton alone.
> ...


I'm not clever so here's my plan - 







and I might rob a stagecoach on the way to town.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I thought that sandwiching a coffee filter between two layers of cotton would be better than cotton alone.

The filters are real cheap.

That virus, and all of them, are so small that the space between the cotton weave looks like the holland tunnel to it.

I can't even see them at 2,000 power on my microscope, not even projected onto a flat screen.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

SOCOM42 said:


> I thought that sandwiching a coffee filter between two layers of cotton would be better than cotton alone.
> 
> The filters are real cheap.
> 
> ...


Good thing they're not made of metal - fighting their way to our magnetic personalities!
We're the delivery system. Hand to mouth.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I still have plenty of factory masks for the wife and I. I donated a hundred and when we run out I have two Niosh respirators with new filters. We may look creepy but they are very good. People are making cotton masks with a filter pocket in them. I have seen them at stores. If they feel safer, more power to them.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> People are clever.
> My mother decided to set out on making her own masks. She found a plan that includes a HEPA certified vacuum bag as a component. For those unaware, HEPA certification is granted when a material can block 99.97% of particles that are 0.3 microns in size. Yes, that makes it an "N99" equivalent.
> So, she is making pretty much the same masks shown in the links you gave, but adding a cut out filter from the vacuum bag in between the layers.
> It's just cloth, so "sealing" isn't possible. But they will certainly do more than cotton alone.
> ...


I saw that. I've been sewing masks, too. It was on Youtube. Then over in the comment section somebody was saying there's a warning that the hepa bags can cause cancer. Then someone else was saying, "They're made in Cali, and everything that comes from Cali has to say 'causes cancer', even if it doesn't." That may be true, I dunno.

I've been using the thickest fabric I have in my stash and layering it three times. I think its probably good enough.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

New advice from the CDC:


> In a departure from previous advice, the Trump administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Protection (CDC) now recommends that *all Americans wear face coverings* when they go to the grocery store, pharmacy and other public places. (source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzann...sk-whenever-you-leave-your-home/#509986286a39)


Screw you, foreigners!
:devil:


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

I ordered a set of 1800 count microfiber sheets to use as a middle layer in masks. In the meantime, I'll go with two layers of tightly woven cotton. I have either quilting cotton or muslin.


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## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

I will absolutely not be wearing a face mask at all times.


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## Alteredstate (Jul 7, 2016)

Yesterday they were just interviewing a doctor on the radio who advised that "with the new knowledge of the way the virus spreads that a shirt, scarf, housemade mask of any kind is advised. Anything is better than nothing at this point"


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## Tango2X (Jul 7, 2016)

My wife made cloth masks, with a pocket into which you can put a coffee filter (recommended).
One use on the filters, of course.
Mad them for all family and some friends.


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## Tmaxx (Mar 31, 2020)

Not sure if this has been said in this thread, my apologies I have not had time to read through it.

The coronavirus measures between 0.5 and 0.2 microns making it very hard to catch with regular materials, this includes cotton, in fact the n95 mask only stops viruses down to 0.3 micron making it possible but unlikely that the virus can squeeze through.

Bottom line do not rely on a homemade mask at all, instead rely on distancing and isolation if you can. Wash everything you bring from outside with water and dishsoap it is very effective as the coronavirus is pretty fragile and a fat enveloped virus easily destroyed by substances that attack organics like fat such as dish soaps.

For a little context an average coffee filter caches at 20 microns.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Mask are not to protect you.. they are to protect others from you


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I actually wore a mask out today to get some gasoline. I was the only person anywhere wearing one. Oh well. You do you, I'll do me.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

I read an article today that said that even a mask made out of an old t-shirt is better than nothing. Depending on the type of material used, DIY, surgical style masks can be up to 60% effective and they get MORE effective when they are damp from use. I'm sorry, I lost the link so don't ask where I saw it, but it it did seem to have been written by someone who had done the research (they "fired [some sort of bacteria] at the masks they were testing). So I felt confident that they weren't just blowing smoke.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm sure multiple layers or tighter weave would be better. The old Shemag with a couple of coffee filters would be pretty good.


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## Tmaxx (Mar 31, 2020)

There is so much information out there right now it is hard to sort it all out. Much of the confusion is outgoing vs ingoing. Wrapping at-shirt around your face will help protect those around you as it slows the velocity of your breath and so the range of the virus if you were infected. That same t-shirt sure is better then nothing for incoming but very ineffective, and then there is a danger of people thinking they are somewhat protected and being less careful.

The mask wet thing I have heard before, but as far as I know is actually incorrect. The fibers of the mask being wet actually compresses them, opening them up space and letting stuff pass that it would normally not.


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## OrneryOldBat (Feb 10, 2017)

Here's a better mask. 




I'm happy enough with the design of this one, that I'm making some for some friends working in ICUs.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

OrneryOldBat said:


> Here's a better mask.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like that people are trying new things, but I am always skeptical.
My mother used these bags when making hers, but put the filter layer inside two-ply cotton fabric. I'm also curious about the seams being used here. When Hoover makes their bag seams, they thermo-seal them. They are literally melting the bag's edges together. Is there any reason to think that a sewn edge is going to mimic that same seal? This pattern should include a folded seam to be safer.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Look up how many billions our Congress authorized to give away to shit-hole countries who hate the US.

Then calculate how many masks, ventilators etc we could have provided ourselves. Or better yet, let we the people and we the business owners keep more of our own earned wealth so we can buy our own stuff.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> I like that people are trying new things, but I am always skeptical.
> My mother used these bags when making hers, but put the filter layer inside two-ply cotton fabric. I'm also curious about the seams being used here. When Hoover makes their bag seams, they thermo-seal them. They are literally melting the bag's edges together. Is there any reason to think that a sewn edge is going to mimic that same seal? This pattern should include a folded seam to be safer.


I think it's going to get too bulky if you try a flat-felled type seam. Any mask you make at home will be better than nothing, but none of them are going to equal the performance of an N95 mask.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

For outgoing mucus (in case you are a non-symptomatic carrier) a thin light mask is usually sufficient and easy to breath through. It also provides a small amount of protection to you.

As we've all heard a high quality N-95 mask provides you with good protection assuming you use common sense about not rubbing your eyes and being careful when you take it off. But breathing through a properly fitting N-95 mask is rather restrictive and you'll build up a lot of breath moisture. 

Because N-95 masks have some electromagnetic charge to help capture tiny particles you should never spray a mask with Lysol or bleach to "clean" it. To "clean" a N-95 or N-98 mask put it in a oven at 157 degrees for 30 minutes according to some medical school (I can't remember which one). 
I've read several places where hospital workers who have limited masks put their mask in a paper bag (moisture can evaporate) for 36+ hours and use a different mask the next day at work. This is because the virus can only live so long in a dry environment.

Thus far we aren't wearing masks when we go out or work. But as part of our preps we do have a good supply of medical grade N-95 masks so we have given many to older family members and the local doctor's office. At this point I wish we had prepped a box of the thinner easier to breath through masks. Fortunately a family member is making us some up.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paulag1955 said:


> I think it's going to get too bulky if you try a flat-felled type seam. Any mask you make at home will be better than nothing, but none of them are going to equal the performance of an N95 mask.


I keep hearing that "better than nothing" line everywhere, and that's all well and good for us. But if people are making masks for donation to healthcare facilities, I think folks should shoot for more than "better than nothing", don't you?

If I have a false sense of safety from a homemade mask and get sick, that's just me and perhaps my family that suffer.
If a healthcare worker thinks their mask is sufficient, but it isn't, and they get sick, that potentially affects many dozens of people who will no longer have that individual available to care for them.

*If* I decide to dust off the ol' sewing machine, I'll happily take "bulky and safer" over "better than nothing".
I've considered firing up the 3D printer to try my hand at a few designs I've seen popping up. Talk about bulk, lol. Those masks are made from hard plastic.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> I keep hearing that "better than nothing" line everywhere, and that's all well and good for us. But if people are making masks for donation to healthcare facilities, I think folks should shoot for more than "better than nothing", don't you?
> 
> If I have a false sense of safety from a homemade mask and get sick, that's just me and perhaps my family that suffer.
> If a healthcare worker thinks their mask is sufficient, but it isn't, and they get sick, that potentially affects many dozens of people who will no longer have that individual available to care for them.
> ...


Don't you think health care workers are smart enough to know the the limitations of a DIY mask?

I don't know what kind of sewing machine you have. but what you're talking about could be beyond the capability of some machines. I wasn't talking about comfort.


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

rmcmurry said:


> So with the shortages of medical masks during the coronavirus, I see a lot of people on FaceBook talking about sewing cloth masks for donation to doctors offices, EMT's, and family and friends. My wife, who is an RN and works in ICU, doesn't think much of the idea. I know I have read that home made masks, mostly made from cotton, are not sanitary. The natural holes in the material will allow microscopic contaminates to pass through. So what's the truth? Would you trust a homemade mask?


For front-line workers, maybe a face shield is a lot better than a mask. Something like this:











As an *added* protection - they could also wear a home-made mask along with it.

For the part that rubs against your forehead, you'll want to use something that won't irritate your skin
_(if you're going to use that steadily throughout the day like health workers do)._
I think using hard plastic will eventually hurt. 
You've got to pad it with something (like flannel?) Use soft materials that won't give your skin blisters.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paulag1955 said:


> Don't you think health care workers are smart enough to know the the limitations of a DIY mask?
> 
> I don't know what kind of sewing machine you have. but what you're talking about could be beyond the capability of some machines. I wasn't talking about comfort.


Absolutely, but what if they have no other option but the DIY?
Do you just avoid treating the COVID patients? Do you risk the exposure with a shoddy mask because it's better than nothing?
I'd hate to make that choice...

I don't know the technicalities of the seam you're envisioning, but I'm only encouraging people to roll the seam before stitching to ensure there is no pathway between the two layers pancaked together and stitch.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> Absolutely, but what if they have no other option but the DIY?
> Do you just avoid treating the COVID patients? Do you risk the exposure with a shoddy mask because it's better than nothing?
> I'd hate to make that choice...
> 
> I don't know the technicalities of the seam you're envisioning, but I'm only encouraging people to roll the seam before stitching to ensure there is no pathway between the two layers pancaked together and stitch.


Maybe I'm picturing the HEPA fabric as being thicker than it is. I think for most people, the stitching is going to be over at the sides, not running right over where they're speaking or breathing, so I don't think it will be an issue. (Unless you're making one of those crazy masks that have the seam running right down the middle of the nose; then it could make a difference.)


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paulag1955 said:


> Maybe I'm picturing the HEPA fabric as being thicker than it is. I think for most people, the stitching is going to be over at the sides, not running right over where they're speaking or breathing, so I don't think it will be an issue. (Unless you're making one of those crazy masks that have the seam running right down the middle of the nose; then it could make a difference.)


I disassembled a Filtrete "True HEPA" filter today to see just what could be done with that fabric, and was surprised how thin it was. (AND HOW MUCH THERE WAS!!!)
From this little thing (~10"x8")








I got something close to 20 feet!
It was delicate work. They use a type of hot glue to hold the pleats together. It's easy to take apart, but time consuming and you have to be careful when removing the glue lines.Nothing overlaps, so they are getting that much filtration from a single ply of the stuff.
It's designed for an air purifier, so it has to be safe to breathe through.
I think it has some good potential to work as a mid layer between cotton.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> I disassembled a Filtrete "True HEPA" filter today to see just what could be done with that fabric, and was surprised how thin it was. (AND HOW MUCH THERE WAS!!!)
> From this little thing (~10"x8")
> View attachment 105119
> 
> ...


I was thinking of HEPA vacuum cleaner bags, which I think are thicker. So I was picturing something completely different. I'm still planning on sandwiching microfiber fabric between cotton. It should be thin relatively thin and not too warm.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Just tossing this out there:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

Short version: The infection rate difference between an N95 respirator and a standard surgical mask was about 1%.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html

Short version: Homemade masks are an option of last resort, best used with a face shield. But still a viable option not be be discounted.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Just tossing this out there:
> 
> https://www.cheneyfreepress.com/sto...spect-in-west-plains-home-invasion/26554.html
> 
> Short version: The infection rate difference between an N95 respirator and a standard surgical mask was about 1%.


That link points to an article entitled: "Homeowner shoots suspect in West Plains home invasion"
I suspect that wasn't the link intended.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> That link points to an article entitled: "Homeowner shoots suspect in West Plains home invasion"
> I suspect that wasn't the link intended.


Copy doesn't work well on my keyboard. It's been corrected.


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## Tango2X (Jul 7, 2016)

Masks are to protect others from you?
BS
We wear our masks every time we leave the house.
I am not the one who coughs and sneezes!!


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## T-Man 1066 (Jan 3, 2016)

Back in the day tractors and cars used oil bath air cleaners. Would spraying vegetable or olive oil on a DIY mask be worth it?

For the record between cleaning dusty chicken coops for 30+ years, welding, grinding, machine shop coolant mist, baling hay, etc, I figure if I aint dead now I am doing ok.


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## Rellgar (Sep 25, 2018)

I would suggest using 2 layers of those blue shop towels to make masks with. Specifically Zepp and Toolbox brands. They will stop 93% of all particles down to .3 microns.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Rellgar said:


> I would suggest using 2 layers of those blue shop towels to make masks with. Specifically Zepp and Toolbox brands. They will stop 93% of all particles down to .3 microns.


How do you know that?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Copy doesn't work well on my keyboard. It's been corrected.


Thanks!

After reading the study, I must say that your "short version" is a drastic over-simplification of the findings, and of what the study was intending to show (healthcare worker improper use leading to higher infection rates).
Based on efficiency of masks, the N95 is superior. (by ~5% according to a referenced study in that one: https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/54/11/1569/321689
What both studies found was, if you don't wear the mask/respirator correctly, you undermine the effectiveness of either one.

Neither one will overcome poor implementation.
Whatever you wear, make sure it seals well, or you lose ~30% of potential effectiveness.



> *Tightly sealing a mask* to the face blocked entry of 94.5% of total virus and 94.8% of infectious virus (n = 3).
> A *tightly sealed respirator* blocked 99.8% of total virus and 99.6% of infectious virus (n = 3).
> A *poorly fitted respirator* blocked 64.5% of total virus and 66.5% of infectious virus (n = 3).
> A *mask** documented to be loosely fitting* by a PortaCount fit tester, to simulate how masks are worn by healthcare workers, blocked entry of 68.5% of total virus and 56.6% of infectious virus (n = 2).
> (source: the link above)


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## OrneryOldBat (Feb 10, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> I like that people are trying new things, but I am always skeptical.
> My mother used these bags when making hers, but put the filter layer inside two-ply cotton fabric. I'm also curious about the seams being used here. When Hoover makes their bag seams, they thermo-seal them. They are literally melting the bag's edges together. Is there any reason to think that a sewn edge is going to mimic that same seal? This pattern should include a folded seam to be safer.


I agree, best case would be to close off those holes. I used some high-temp silicone seal on mine.


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## OrneryOldBat (Feb 10, 2017)

Another thing to consider with masks is that dose matters. A healthcare worker is more likely to be constantly exposed to people actively shedding large quanitities of virus in a contained space. They need the better masks to protect them as well as surgical masks to put on the infected to limit the droplet spread. Most of us will be fine with a lower quality mask, hand washing and good mask putting on/taking off technique. My #1 protection is still staying far away from people and not going out. I'm making the HEPA masks for nurse friends who are having to make do with people's DIY cotton masks of uselessness.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

OrneryOldBat said:


> I agree, best case would be to close off those holes. I used some high-temp silicone seal on mine.


I did see a YT vid where the person went to great lengths to ensure every seam they stitched received a coating of low-temp hot glue across it for a final seal. I thought that was a good step. Low heat was needed due to the fabric's tendency to melt at certain temperatures.
The silicone seal is probably more durable though. Good idea!


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> I did see a YT vid where the person went to great lengths to ensure every seam they stitched received a coating of low-temp hot glue across it for a final seal. I thought that was a good step. Low heat was needed due to the fabric's tendency to melt at certain temperatures.
> The silicone seal is probably more durable though. Good idea!


I wonder what kind of fabric they were using. Cotton won't melt at any temperature.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paulag1955 said:


> I wonder what kind of fabric they were using. Cotton won't melt at any temperature.


This person had found a source for what she referred to as "filter fabric", which looked nearly identical to the stuff I pulled out of that HEPA filter that I disassembled.
If it's the same thing, that fabric is made from extruded plastic fiber, and would surely melt under an iron.

I need to follow up on that. She said she had a video showing where/how she acquired this resource by the yard.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> This person had found a source for what she referred to as "filter fabric", which looked nearly identical to the stuff I pulled out of that HEPA filter that I disassembled.
> If it's the same thing, that fabric is made from extruded plastic fiber, and would surely melt under an iron.
> 
> I need to follow up on that. She said she had a video showing where/how she acquired this resource by the yard.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/133360706910


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paulag1955 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/133360706910


Found the video, and found her source.
https://filti.com/product/filti-face-mask-material/

The company, known for making washable and reusable home air filters, transitioned their production to be a full time N95 filter material maker.
That link allows for purchase of 3 sizes of fabric, and the cost seems reasonable (assuming their estimated mask output is accurate).
50-80 masks from material that costs $25 sounds pretty good, but you do have to add in the additional materials and labor, I suppose.

EDIT: Well, that price creeped up a bit since last night... now $29.89
I've got a screenshot from the webpage in the early morning hours showing $24.99


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> Found the video, and found her source.
> https://filti.com/product/filti-face-mask-material/
> 
> The company, known for making washable and reusable home air filters, transitioned their production to be a full time N95 filter material maker.
> ...


I mean...for most people (i.e., people who live in a city or suburbia), if they're stuck at home, how valuable is their time? Can you add a link to the video, please?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paulag1955 said:


> I mean...for most people (i.e., people who live in a city or suburbia), if they're stuck at home, how valuable is their time? Can you add a link to the video, please?


Indeed, and for experienced folks, they might be able to crank out a few an hour!

For the videos, your wish is my command...
She normally posts tips on bridal stuff. Let's not get into the details about why/how I found this... m'kay? :vs_awed:

Her mask making video: (she does a decent job of it, and takes many things into consideration along the way, might not be the best way though)





Her video on sourcing the fabric:


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> Indeed, and for experienced folks, they might be able to crank out a few an hour!


Thanks for the links. Those masks to look to be pretty well thought out. I'm a slow sewist but I think that even I could probably make four to five an hour after a little practice.

The only thing that bothers me about them is that they can't really be laundered.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

paulag1955 said:


> Thanks for the links. Those masks to look to be pretty well thought out. I'm a slow sewist but I think that even I could probably make four to five an hour after a little practice.
> 
> The only thing that bothers me about them is that they can't really be laundered.


I'd bet a UV light box could be assembled easily to disinfect masks that can't be laundered. The practice is already being used in large scale at many institutions across the country to disinfect masks hung on lines in a room dedicated to UV disinfection. There was a paper posted here somewhere detailing the practice, and its effectiveness.

For personal use, a 1'x1' opaque box, lined with reflective foil, with a UV light inside, and a hinged door, could be used to clean the baddies from a mask that caught particles on the surface.
It would be less effective at disinfecting masks where the filter media is inside a pocket, or between layers.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kauboy said:


> I'd bet a UV light box could be assembled easily to disinfect masks that can't be laundered. The practice is already being used in large scale at many institutions across the country to disinfect masks hung on lines in a room dedicated to UV disinfection. There was a paper posted here somewhere detailing the practice, and its effectiveness.
> 
> For personal use, a 1'x1' opaque box, lined with reflective foil, with a UV light inside, and a hinged door, could be used to clean the baddies from a mask that caught particles on the surface.
> It would be less effective at disinfecting masks where the filter media is inside a pocket, or between layers.


Yes, I thought about UV light but assembling something like that is not in my skill set. I think I'm going to stick with cotton masks that I can bleach. Trips to the supermarket probably aren't the most likely place I'd be exposed. It's more likely to happen at home after my husband has been exposed at work.


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## Rellgar (Sep 25, 2018)

It's been researched and tested. https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-mask-using-hydro-knit-shop-towel-filters-better-2020-4


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Rellgar said:


> It's been researched and tested. https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-mask-using-hydro-knit-shop-towel-filters-better-2020-4


Those will be one use masks, though. It might be possible to augment a cotton mask with the shop towel, though.


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## Rellgar (Sep 25, 2018)

Yes use the shop towels as filter inserts. They still good for about a week of everyday use, like N95 masks.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Do Muslim women have to wear a mask over their mask?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)




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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Started 3D printing some masks today.
I'm a bit unsure about the outflow, but we'll see how they work. They have a square opening in the front where you place the filter material, and close it up with an insert to seal the filter.
They also offer instructions on how to heat up and mold the mask to your own face to give a custom fit.

For any interested: https://engineering.rowan.edu/research-centers/mask/index.html

I have a large and a medium printing now. We'll see how they come out.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> We give each a teaspoon of coconut oil every day to them for that reason and it helps the GI track.
> 
> Would not touch old roy with a stick either.


Finally getting back to you on this. My one dog has alopecia. He's mostly bald and has to wear little t-shirts. His skin gets dry, so I thought of this post and thought if your dogs do alright with it, why not try it for my dog? I've started greasing him down with coconut oil.

Coincidentally, coconut oil is one of my fave products. It's all natural, great for my own skin--and especially my hair. Good in coffee on occasion. They call that bullet proof coffee when you put a teaspoon in and stick it in the blender. Good stuff.

Sophia Loren uses olive oil to wash her face. She said "Everything you see I owe to spaghetti."


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I posted this on another thread but I guess it belongs here......


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Annie said:


> Finally getting back to you on this. My one dog has alopecia. He's mostly bald and has to wear little t-shirts. His skin gets dry, so I thought of this post and thought if your dogs do alright with it, why not try it for my dog? I've started greasing him down with coconut oil.
> 
> Coincidentally, coconut oil is one of my fave products. It's all natural, great for my own skin--and especially my hair. Good in coffee on occasion. They call that bullet proof coffee when you put a teaspoon in and stick it in the blender. Good stuff.
> 
> Sophia Loren uses olive oil to wash her face. She said "Everything you see I owe to spaghetti."


Sophia did what her ancestors did in Roman times.

In bathing they would cover their bodies in olive oil and scrape it off with a wooden knife, the oil was their soap.

Slaves would be employed by the well to do for the process.

Lye based soap was invented in the middle east around 2,500 -3,000 BC.

It was harsh on the skin which kept it from popular usage for personal hygein, but was used to clean cloths mostly by slaves.

It is best if you give the dosage as said orally to the dog along with the topical treatment.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

non-woven interfacing, either fusible or sew-in, between layers of cotton actually makes a reasonable masking solution. nothing's perfect, but it will control aerosol disbursement to some degree.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Started 3D printing some masks today.
> I'm a bit unsure about the outflow, but we'll see how they work. They have a square opening in the front where you place the filter material, and close it up with an insert to seal the filter.
> They also offer instructions on how to heat up and mold the mask to your own face to give a custom fit.
> 
> ...


Success!
Both masks printed with minimal cleanup needed. I still need to try the custom fit steps, but I'm very happy with the result.
I cut a square of my HEPA filter material and pushed in the filter holding bracket, and it snapped in place perfectly.
I'm very happy with this.
I am going to drill a hole for an exhaust flap, since this thing seals TIGHT. I will affix a rubber flap to this place that will seal up when inhaling, and allow outflow when exhaling, like a respirator does.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

My daughter made some out of T shirts with two layers of coffee filters in between.

They were sterilized with UV-B and C light, both sides.

They fit well but you can't breath heavy in them, air flow is restricted.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

you just need to know how to make a proper mask is all.....


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Sasquatch said:


> Do Muslim women have to wear a mask over their mask?


double double.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Sasquatch said:


> Do Muslim women have to wear a mask over their mask?


Muslims can only wear muslin masks, or so I'm told.

I'm still making masks and I'm wondering if there's some kind of double sided sticky tape that could hold them down to the skin around the edges?


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Annie said:


> Muslims can only wear muslin masks, or so I'm told.
> 
> I'm still making masks and I'm wondering if there's some kind of double sided sticky tape that could hold them down to the skin around the edges?


I've seen them use that in hospitals before. Not sure what it is called or where you might find it.

https://www.amazon.com/Removable-Clear-Double-Sided-Sticky/dp/B07CNWXG5X/ref=sr_1_38?crid=1F6ZW60SW19KN&dchild=1&keywords=double+sided+medical+tape&qid=1587323989&sprefix=double+sided+medical%2Caps%2C193&sr=8-38


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Sasquatch said:


> I've seen them use that in hospitals before. Not sure what it is called or where you might find it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Removable-Clear-Double-Sided-Sticky/dp/B07CNWXG5X/ref=sr_1_38?crid=1F6ZW60SW19KN&dchild=1&keywords=double+sided+medical+tape&qid=1587323989&sprefix=double+sided+medical%2Caps%2C193&sr=8-38


Just purchased it. (shrugs.) Can't hurt.


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## IHope (Apr 21, 2020)

I found a face mask at an online store. Can't post links here tho. 
I ordered myself one.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

I've always considered a pandemic to be a likely cause of a great crisis. This one, at least so far, does not cause enough fatalities to reach that level. But since I know these type viruses can mutate many times, anything is possible. For that reason, I'm holding on to my stash of cases of n95 masks and not donating them. Wish I could say the same for my wife, as she is passing them out like candy. We were shopping together a week or so ago, and danged if she didn't hand a couple to some stranger in the store. I 'bout bit my tongue off to keep from saying something. Good thing the wife doesn't have a key to my storage room.


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## Shelterinplace1963 (Mar 9, 2020)

My neighbor asked me if I had any masks and I gave her 4 out of my stash. These are good N95's that are probably selling for $50.00 each online. Her husband had given all he had (a 30 count box) to the Children's hospital. I still have about 20 left.

I just keep using the same one over and over. I spray it down with 70 proof alcohol when I come home every day. It don't stink too bad.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

My wife has made some masks for frinds and family that consist of two layers of cotton material with a layer of non-woven "interfacing" in the middle. This blocks most of what normally just pass through the woven cotton alone and still stays soft and edge breathable. Still falls into the "better than nothing" category, but far better than just a bandana or something like that.

Of course, should a c'rona fog descend upon us we've got proper respirators with spare cartridges, but then I'd have to shave the beard I've been working on for the past 6 weeks.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Finally got a pick of my printed masks.
Red was the only color I had that I know the quality to be good. Added some paracord with tautline hitches for easy removal.
The left one is the medium size, the right is large. They don't look like it based on how I flipped them.








Still need to drill and cover the exhaust port. I'm thinking just above the filter will be a good spot.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Finally got a pick of my printed masks.
> Red was the only color I had that I know the quality to be good. Added some paracord with tautline hitches for easy removal.
> The left one is the medium size, the right is large. They don't look like it based on how I flipped them.
> View attachment 105733
> ...


Looks like my protective cup when I played baseball.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> Looks like my protective cup when I played baseball.


Oddly similarly shaped...
Rubberized seal around the edges...
Holes for breath-ability...
Add a little bit of filter material...

I'll uh... be right back...


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I went out without a mask a few weeks ago, and people were yelling at me. I went out wearing a mask, and people still got upset.


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