# Going cold turkey!



## tirednurse

One of my personal pet peeves is wasting money. I have considered paying an electric bill a waste of money for years and have been trying to figure out all the in's and out's of converting to solar for a long time. I actually could do a combination of solar, wind and hydro power on my property. Have been holding back due to not wanting to make a mistake, spend money and waste on a system that doesn't work for my household. 
In the last 15 years I have watched my electric bill climb from $74 a month to the bill I received last week of $1390. I do not use electric for heating. most of the electric goes to lights, hot water and clothes dryer. So I know there is a problem with this bill
I decided enough is enough and called the electric company once again to complain. conversation of course was a waste of time. They act like you are crazy and don't know what you are talking about and wont listen to what you say. 
so after hanging up the phone I started taking pictures of our meter daily to calculate usage. Coming no where near what the electric company says we are using. I went in person on Tuesday, with pictures in hand to state my case. Got nowhere again. their explanation was that I was modifying use for the pictures or that the pictures were inaccurate. Accused me of lying basically. 
So enough is enough. I told them to shove their electricity up their butts, I will no longer pay for another day of their electricity and made them disconnect it that morning. 
SO....... have been OFF GRID since Tuesday and we are doing awesome. some things to adjust here and there. but for going cold turkey we were more prepared than I had thought. We are using the generator about 4 hours a day for the fridge and freezers and the well pump. (2 hours in the am and 2 in the pm)
I am converting kitchen range and hot water heater and clothes dryer to propane asap and have found some nice used one for a total less than $200. just need to plumb for the gas lines and have propane company set up tank and we are set. Until then we are using one of the RV's as a bathhouse, and kitchen and drying clothes by the wood stove on a clothes rack (which I will probably continue even with propane dryer). 
I am able to use the washer to do laundry during the hours the generator is running, charge computer, work on the internet and every thing else we need for electric. our average is less than 1 gal of gas a day, so at current use is less than $100 a month. 
once the propane is installed I will be collecting items needed for solar and hope to have completely set up by the end of this summer. 
I am feeling very excited about my new adventure and very happy all who live in my household have put up with my plan so far. Crossing my fingers that there will be no major problems ahead of me.


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## kevincali

I wish you the best of luck!

I'll b in the same boat when I move to KY. I'm buying a piece of property and might have a manufactured home put on it. It will not have utilities. At least for a little while. Thinking of propane. 

Keep us updated!


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## Ripon

A $1390 utility bill? Wowza you running growth lamps? That seems like a commercial bill....I know my ice cream shop would hit $5k in the summer but my residence bill never wort over $300. 

Solar panels are at all time lows, and if they elevate rates and reduce the dollars value that may not get any better until technology advances them further. 240 watts panels for $200 is not out of line today and I paid upwards of $500-600 for mine 4-5 years ago. Though I had no utility options at my location it was solar or generator....


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## csi-tech

1390.00 per month? Hell No!


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## Slippy

I've taken "Wasting Money" to new heights, I will assure you of that! 

But seriously, $1390 for one month? Not good. Do you mind sharing what you averaged the last 12 months both in KWH per month and dollars per month? It sounds as if there is a problem and your power company can and should help you isolate the problem. 

For us, we average about 1200 Kwh/mo which includes a main house and outbuildings. Our power company will also average our bill on a 12 month "rolling average. The past 12 months we average $180/month.


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## tirednurse

Slippy said:


> I've taken "Wasting Money" to new heights, I will assure you of that!
> 
> But seriously, $1390 for one month? Not good. Do you mind sharing what you averaged the last 12 months both in KWH per month and dollars per month? It sounds as if there is a problem and your power company can and should help you isolate the problem.
> 
> For us, we average about 1200 Kwh/mo which includes a main house and outbuildings. Our power company will also average our bill on a 12 month "rolling average. The past 12 months we average $180/month.


I do not have the bills in front of me slippy. I usually shred them when I see them. while we were taking pics of the meter our readings were 17-20 KW a day. so at the high with running several loads of laundry etc the max our bill should be is for about 600 kwh/month correct? our local rates are .05/KWH or in our case about $30 a month plus the .55 a day they charge for the service. for a total of $46.5 a month and some taxes I'm sure. So why my bill is so high. I don't know. I would have had to be using almost 900 KWH a day to get a bill that high
My bills have ranged between $500 about a year ago and steadily climbed to my current bill. 
I have asked them several times over the years to come take a look and they say they know it is not their equipment it would have to be in the house. I am pretty sure it all started getting bad when they took the human element out of it and changed the meter to a digital one that can be read in their office. Technology never fails though does it. It is all my human error. But I'm not making that mistake again


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## kevincali

Any chance someone is stealing power?

Is your bill tiered? Price jumps once you've used x amount? 

Maybe when the put the meter on, the RFID signal is registered to a neighbor? Maybe they put your meter on a neighbors place and your neighbor is using that much. Makes sense because they could be getting $50-$60 bills and they just keep upping their usage because their bill isn't getting any higher?


Edit: did they turn the power off at your house or over the computer? If they shut it off at your house, if you get a bill for energy used, then you KNOW that your meter is on someone else's pole. 

I'd ask for them to confirm that the meter on YOUR property is meant for YOUR property!


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## tirednurse

kevincali said:


> Any chance someone is stealing power?
> 
> Is your bill tiered? Price jumps once you've used x amount?
> 
> Maybe when the put the meter on, the RFID signal is registered to a neighbor? Maybe they put your meter on a neighbors place and your neighbor is using that much. Makes sense because they could be getting $50-$60 bills and they just keep upping their usage because their bill isn't getting any higher?
> 
> Edit: did they turn the power off at your house or over the computer? If they shut it off at your house, if you get a bill for energy used, then you KNOW that your meter is on someone else's pole.
> 
> I'd ask for them to confirm that the meter on YOUR property is meant for YOUR property!


No it has never reached the tiered price. I have said for years that I think I am paying for the neighbors power, but again they say their equipment is not the issue. I had them come and disconnect their equipment at the house. So I better not be getting another bill


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## csi-tech

I think tired nurse is running a hydroponic grow operation or powering the Hoover Dam.


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## tirednurse

csi-tech said:


> I think tired nurse is running a hydroponic grow operation or powering the Hoover Dam.


It is legal in Washington now, but I'm not close to the dam


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## Ripon

Something is wrong at $1390. I would demand an audit that includes a survey. I'm going to guess you really are paying for the neighbor. When a utility charges $0.05 you should buy it. That is CHEAP and solar will cost you $.13-18 easy.


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## bigwheel

tirednurse said:


> One of my personal pet peeves is wasting money. I have considered paying an electric bill a waste of money for years and have been trying to figure out all the in's and out's of converting to solar for a long time. I actually could do a combination of solar, wind and hydro power on my property. Have been holding back due to not wanting to make a mistake, spend money and waste on a system that doesn't work for my household.
> In the last 15 years I have watched my electric bill climb from $74 a month to the bill I received last week of $1390. I do not use electric for heating. most of the electric goes to lights, hot water and clothes dryer. So I know there is a problem with this bill
> I decided enough is enough and called the electric company once again to complain. conversation of course was a waste of time. They act like you are crazy and don't know what you are talking about and wont listen to what you say.
> so after hanging up the phone I started taking pictures of our meter daily to calculate usage. Coming no where near what the electric company says we are using. I went in person on Tuesday, with pictures in hand to state my case. Got nowhere again. their explanation was that I was modifying use for the pictures or that the pictures were inaccurate. Accused me of lying basically.
> So enough is enough. I told them to shove their electricity up their butts, I will no longer pay for another day of their electricity and made them disconnect it that morning.
> SO....... have been OFF GRID since Tuesday and we are doing awesome. some things to adjust here and there. but for going cold turkey we were more prepared than I had thought. We are using the generator about 4 hours a day for the fridge and freezers and the well pump. (2 hours in the am and 2 in the pm)
> I am converting kitchen range and hot water heater and clothes dryer to propane asap and have found some nice used one for a total less than $200. just need to plumb for the gas lines and have propane company set up tank and we are set. Until then we are using one of the RV's as a bathhouse, and kitchen and drying clothes by the wood stove on a clothes rack (which I will probably continue even with propane dryer).
> I am able to use the washer to do laundry during the hours the generator is running, charge computer, work on the internet and every thing else we need for electric. our average is less than 1 gal of gas a day, so at current use is less than $100 a month.
> once the propane is installed I will be collecting items needed for solar and hope to have completely set up by the end of this summer.
> I am feeling very excited about my new adventure and very happy all who live in my household have put up with my plan so far. Crossing my fingers that there will be no major problems ahead of me.


Wow that was a heck of an electric bill for normal sized residential house. Hope nobody is running the previously mentioned grow light things. Those can make it spin I heard. I cant imagine why it would be that high. Call an electrician out there and get a free estimate what is wrong there. Propane aint cheap. I got Arkie kin who live in the sticks in a double wide of course...and the price of propane is very painful. They try to heat with electric when they can. Best of fortunes on doing without the electric and kindly keep us updated on how things go. You may need to keep a little journal diary thing or whatever. That could be turned into a best selling book. Take a bunch of pics and movies. Thanks.


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## tirednurse

bigwheel said:


> Wow that was a heck of an electric bill for normal sized residential house. Hope nobody is running the previously mentioned grow light things. Those can make it spin I heard. I cant imagine why it would be that high. Call an electrician out there and get a free estimate what is wrong there. Propane aint cheap. I got Arkie kin who live in the sticks in a double wide of course...and the price of propane is very painful. They try to heat with electric when they can. Best of fortunes on doing without the electric and kindly keep us updated on how things go. You may need to keep a little journal diary thing or whatever. That could be turned into a best selling book. Take a bunch of pics and movies. Thanks.


Big W, I would never use propane to heat. I use wood. I would like to eventually also get a wood cook stove but I have cooked many meals on the wood stove I have so I'm not worried about it. I would only use propane for cooking and hot water in an effort to maintain some normalcy. I have a prepper friend who switched years ago. she has her tank filled once every 12-16 months at a cost of around $400 which would break down to less than $40 a month


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## bigwheel

Makes sense on the propane. Not sure what it cost to get the Hill Billy branch refilled..but I know they do a lot of tee teeing and moaning when the bill comes due. Good luck on the wood heating. Hope yall own your own forest..and have some guest workers on hand to do the lumberjack chores..lol.


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## GasholeWillie

Yes something is waaaaaaay out of whack at your house. Your monthly bill is twice what I pay a YEAR! 1800sq ft house single story, unfinished basement, NG furnace, whole house AC. Last months bill was $60. I run exterior lights dusk till dawn, a few interior lights 24/7, 1 fridge and freezer, line dry 50% of my clothes in the basement, NG dryer, NG water heater, 1 TV/audio system. And that $60 bill, IN THE DEAD OF WINTER when my furnace runs quite a bit. You need to take this much further up the food chain to the Public Utility Commission or your local State Representative. And if you thought electric was expensive, propane is possibly worse. Then again I have no idea how your situation with electric could get worse.


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## paraquack

I too would ask for an audit. Something is seriously haywire. 
I had a scheduled appointment with local solar company and they canceled. My local electric company wants the the state to change how much the company has to pay for the power I put into the grid. So now I sit and wait..


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## Diver

Clearly the utility is blowing off your complaints. Contact your state public utility commission and file a complaint.


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## BagLady

Wow. I've never heard of anyone having so much hassle with what is obviously a mistake.
I'm glad it's working out off grid, but I wouldnt let it slide.
Fight Girl!! We got your back...:armata_PDT_23:


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## cobracon2

Holy crap!!! Maybe there is a watch dog group you could contact.


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## bigwheel

We need to immediately forward this info to Ted Cruz. The Cruz Man can fix it. Kindly tell him where you heard it. Thanks. I would also do a CC to Sarah Palin. They will get to the bottom of this rotten kettle of fish. Tell Sarah I said hi...blush blush.

https://www.facebook.com/sarahpalin
Ted Cruz | U.S. Senator for Texas


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## wallyLOZ

I admire your spirit tirednurse! Wouldn't be a pretty transition with my girls! Hang in there and keep us posted on the progress.


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## jackmobes

Good luck to you! I wish I had the courage to do that also. The misses things like you but I'm the one holding back until I figure out the details


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## Ralph Rotten

It'd have to be a plantation. Even when I lived in Yuma, with an old school tar roof, my electric bills never got that high, and Yuma is so damned hot that Satan himself tells new arrivals "It'll be a cold day in Yuma before they ever get outta there."

Someone just invented a new solar cell that even works on cloudy days, well better than current cells (I get only about a 3rd of the energy on an overcast day.) They are in the 40% effectivity range (compared to the current 18% cells on the market.)


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## tirednurse

wallyLOZ said:


> I admire your spirit tirednurse! Wouldn't be a pretty transition with my girls! Hang in there and keep us posted on the progress.


It actually hasn't been a struggle at all, thanks to all the things we have done in advance. We have a generator which is set up to run what ever we need in the house, out buildings and the well. We have several RV trailers that are fully equipped with every modern convenience. Have one parked about 10 feet from the front door that we are using as "the bathhouse" so we have nice hot showers. as well as kitchen facilities when needed. the washer will run on the generator and we are hanging clothes to dry in front of the wood stove which is always going anyway.

What else could we need? we just time all activities needing electricity at the same time and run the generator for a couple hours. the only real inconvenience is no lights 24/7 with the flick of a switch. so with it being still winter and limited daylight we have set up camp lanterns in major rooms like bathrooms and kitchen.

we have tried to live simple for a long time so not really a huge adjustment.


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## Ralph Rotten

Make sure the genny is well ventilated. Folks die every year from CO poisoning.


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## tirednurse

Ralph Rotten said:


> Make sure the genny is well ventilated. Folks die every year from CO poisoning.


I haven't gotten this far in life being stupid. The generator is about 20 from the house out behind the garage in an enclosed locked yard made specifically for it. the fencing insulates the noise and keeps it from thieves.


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## Arklatex

Solar landscaping lights might be an idea for ambient light. Bring them in at night. It's worked for me in the past during extended outages.


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## Murphy

$1390! Wtf!!


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## Slippy

Tired Nurse, 

While I salute and support your "off grid" endeavor, propane is usually much more expensive then electricity. 

I'm hoping that your power company researches the problem, and I do believe there is a huge problem, and takes steps to correct it. For a residential bill to be $1390/month, the amount of electricity consumed had to be HUGE. 

In a normal home Water Heater, HVAC, Refrigerator/Freezers, Washers/Dryers, Small Appliances like clothes irons, toasters, ovens etc are the biggest consumers of electricity. Lights generally consume much less and CFL Light bulbs consume much less than traditional bulbs.

I'm afraid that even running your generator sporadically will still result in a higher monthly bill vs electricity...provided your power company fixes the problem.


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## kevincali

Not trying to add insult to injury, but here's my bill for last months use. I use 99% LED lights, basic standard fridge, sometimes I leave outdoor lights on. I occasionally run an air compressor. Occasionally ran an electric space heater.

Been watching more TV the past 3-4 days that my back has been out. Except today. I was out and about chasing .22's lol.


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## alterego

I know you know this. But the numbers you stated on your bill for kwh usage and charges make no sense. The bill isn't combined electric and natural gas are they. 

Any way God bless you in your endeavour. For 34 thousand you could have a complete off grid battery solar system which will produce 740 kwh a month.

I have received a recent quote from a reputable contractor with sunpower 285 cells. I am seriously considering. 

We are working on switch out appliances and making provisions to switch on a slower scale.

Our electric bill was 100 a month on 640 kw hours. If it was 1300 I would have a solar system for 34 thousand next week.


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## bigwheel

We have to get her on the Doomsday Prepper show.


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## tirednurse

alterego said:


> I know you know this. But the numbers you stated on your bill for kwh usage and charges make no sense. The bill isn't combined electric and natural gas are they.
> 
> Any way God bless you in your endeavour. For 34 thousand you could have a complete off grid battery solar system which will produce 740 kwh a month.
> 
> I have received a recent quote from a reputable contractor with sunpower 285 cells. I am seriously considering.
> 
> We are working on switch out appliances and making provisions to switch on a slower scale.
> 
> Our electric bill was 100 a month on 640 kw hours. If it was 1300 I would have a solar system for 34 thousand next week.


This is for electric only. I am not connected to natural gas, it is not even available in my area. They are claiming I am using almost 900 KWH a day. No way it is possible. 
According to several people in my area who use propane for their kitchen range and hot water heater, and are spending around $300 a year.

Unfortunately there are no solar contractors in my area. a few in the Seattle area, but I'm hours from there. If there was, I would have done this years ago. I will have to buy and install it all myself. not a bad thing because at least by the end of it I will be able to repair it if something goes wrong. The hard part is trying to figure out what I need and how to put it all together so that is works. Not really a step by step guide with a shopping list out there that I can find. I will not buy anything until I am sure to get what will work for me long term


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## tirednurse

Slippy said:


> Tired Nurse,
> 
> While I salute and support your "off grid" endeavor, propane is usually much more expensive then electricity.
> 
> I'm hoping that your power company researches the problem, and I do believe there is a huge problem, and takes steps to correct it. For a residential bill to be $1390/month, the amount of electricity consumed had to be HUGE.
> 
> In a normal home Water Heater, HVAC, Refrigerator/Freezers, Washers/Dryers, Small Appliances like clothes irons, toasters, ovens etc are the biggest consumers of electricity. Lights generally consume much less and CFL Light bulbs consume much less than traditional bulbs.
> 
> I'm afraid that even running your generator sporadically will still result in a higher monthly bill vs electricity...provided your power company fixes the problem.


I have done my research and looked at people bills for propane. they are averaging about $300 a year for my size family and using only the kitchen range and hot water heater. I have a friend with 3 kids that only fills her tank about ever 18 months and is paying about $400 to do so. much cheaper than my electric bill.

My generator is a temporary crutch while we get set up for solar and hydro power. if I had a choice I wouldn't use that either, but my job requires hours of time on the computer which takes electricity. Every day we run it less and less. 
As for cost of running the generator....I don't give a flying F*** if it costs me $2000 a month to run it until we are set up with an alternate power source. At least I will never send that electric company a dime of my money again. 
May sound crazy to some people but I have had enough of cheating lying scum and big corporations robbing us blind and not having any choice but to pay what ever they say we have to. I am done dealing with them.


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## Slippy

tirednurse said:


> I have done my research and looked at people bills for propane. they are averaging about $300 a year for my size family and using only the kitchen range and hot water heater. I have a friend with 3 kids that only fills her tank about ever 18 months and is paying about $400 to do so. much cheaper than my electric bill.
> 
> My generator is a temporary crutch while we get set up for solar and hydro power. if I had a choice I wouldn't use that either, but my job requires hours of time on the computer which takes electricity. Every day we run it less and less.
> As for cost of running the generator....I don't give a flying F*** if it costs me $2000 a month to run it until we are set up with an alternate power source. At least I will never send that electric company a dime of my money again.
> May sound crazy to some people but I have had enough of cheating lying scum and big corporations robbing us blind and not having any choice but to pay what ever they say we have to. I am done dealing with them.


Sounds like you've done your research and are making a rational decision . Let us know how your solar and hydro project works out, you may end up having a great return on your investment. Good Luck and I hope those evil, thieving corportists rot in the worst type of hell imaginable.

Here is a link to a solar company that has some very good info; http://www.backwoodssolar.com/


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## CWOLDOJAX

WOW! big bill!.

I know that the water heater can be about 30 percent of the electric bill. Several folks around here put their water heaters on a timer. 
The water heater is off while everyone is at work/school all day then on untill they all go to bed then off again through the night. 

I don't do this because we babysit grand babies... but I would if we did not do that.

Good thread Tired Nurse.

We recently had some friends over for dinner and they brought the off-the-grid subject up. 
Woohoo! My city-girl sweetheart is curious now!


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## GasholeWillie

So what ever happened to the king size electric bill?


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## slewfoot

Good for you an d good luck.
A true story, A few years ago my son's bill started running around a $1000 a month up from around $150,. he had the power company out trying to figure out why, they even changed the meter but to no avail. A few months went buy and one day the next door neighbor came to him and told him he spotted the renter that lives in the house behind him sneaking over about sundown and plugging in an extension cord to an outlet on the back of the house. So that night he hid and was watching when he caught the renter red handed plugging into his house. The power company filed charges against that man for theft of electricity and he ended up having to pay back my son.


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## alterego

tirednurse said:


> I have done my research and looked at people bills for propane. they are averaging about $300 a year for my size family and using only the kitchen range and hot water heater. I have a friend with 3 kids that only fills her tank about ever 18 months and is paying about $400 to do so. much cheaper than my electric bill.
> 
> My generator is a temporary crutch while we get set up for solar and hydro power. if I had a choice I wouldn't use that either, but my job requires hours of time on the computer which takes electricity. Every day we run it less and less.
> As for cost of running the generator....I don't give a flying F*** if it costs me $2000 a month to run it until we are set up with an alternate power source. At least I will never send that electric company a dime of my money again.
> May sound crazy to some people but I have had enough of cheating lying scum and big corporations robbing us blind and not having any choice but to pay what ever they say we have to. I am done dealing with them.


My generator burns about 3/4 gallon an hour. If you run 4 hours a day 3 gallons a day. Gas is less than 2.50. So 7.50 per day times 30 days. Would be 225 a month and that would be on the high side right now.


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