# What are the rules of engagement post SHTF in WROL?



## ciprep

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but this is a question I've thought about a lot here recently. After a sustained "situation" in which things don't bounce back, how does this community view the rules during an engagement where there is no rule of law? I value human life quite a lot, but I realize that not everyone will in a scenario where's there is conflict at any level. There will be those that are lawless that will prey upon the weak (and just about anyone else for that matter). In the military obviously there's ROE, but at which point is lethal force justified? I recently got into a strong "discussion" with someone in which he argued that if someone showed up on his doorstep demanding food or water, he'd prefer to use lethal force out of fear that they may go and get a mob and return to his home. I just don't can't imagine killing people out of fear of what may happen, but then again, if we're truly in a WROL scenario, if you're stupid enough to make demands you may not live.

Just curious how others have processed their views on basic rules of engagement. Curious if there's been any good articles, forum threads or blog posts on this issue anyone has found (or has their own opinion on the matter).

Thanks!


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## inceptor

You do understand that WROL means without rule of law? So are you asking what rules will apply?


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## Sonya

ciprep said:


> he argued that if someone showed up on his doorstep demanding food or water, he'd prefer to use lethal force out of fear that they may go and get a mob and return to his home.


I don't think people will show up and "demand" anything. Instead they will show up with a sob story and play on people's sympathies/politeness. At that point maybe they are harmless and really asking for charity or maybe they are getting ready to shoot/barge through your front door, kill your family and take everything you have.

I wouldn't want to shoot some poor guy that was just looking for a handout, but it would be too dangerous to risk engaging with strangers against our will, and approaching someone's home doesn't give them a choice in the matter. Personally if the situation was becoming WROL I would be likely to put a very clear sign up that basically said "Do not stop here, move along".

That should prevent misunderstandings and if people do stop they will be considered hostile. They saw the sign which means I don't have to explain, or be polite, or warn, or do anything other than shoot if necessary.


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## Back Pack Hack

Sonya said:


> I don't think people will show up and "demand" anything. Instead they will show up with a sob story and play on people's sympathies/politeness. .........


Or else just shoot you and take your chit.


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## Inor

Maybe reassess your assumptions...

If you found somebody breaking into your house today and called the police, that period of time between when they started to break in and when the police actually arrived on the scene, you are living in a world WROL. Maybe consider how you would react today...

So what changes if the police are coming in 10 minutes or not coming at all?


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor

If they threaten you kill them, simple

...also, dont go booty raping anyone that dont need booty raping

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## bigwheel

Well we are born again Bible Beliving Christians. We will share till it runs out. Thats what Jesus would do most likely. We try to be like Him. He is our Big Brother ya know?


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## inceptor

bigwheel said:


> Well we are born again Bible Beliving Christians. We will share till it runs out. Thats what Jesus would do most likely. We try to be like Him. He is our Big Brother ya know?


A few verses for you to consider also.

1 Timothy 5:8 - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Luke 10:30 Jesus replied, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. 32 So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. 34 He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 And the next day he took out two denarii[a] and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, 'Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.' 36 Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?" 37 He said, "The one who showed him mercy." And Jesus said to him, "You go, and do likewise."

So much to consider. You must take care of your family but also help when you can.


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## Boss Dog

If you want a verse...


> Judges 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.


This is pretty much how it would be in a world WROL. When things get desperate, (even if they were previously morally centered) you don't know what someone will do. Follow my own conscience in defense of you & yours. If the Holy Ghost has control of yours, all will go according to His plan.


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## A Watchman

I live in Texas, you live in California ... your mileage may vary.


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## Targetshooter

I understand as a Christian you need to live by God's law , as a person in todays world you need to live by man's law to . I would post signs , give warnings , if they still want trouble , well then they have it . I have the right to protect me and my family . If it became WROL , then there is no police coming to aide you . So you protect , or die . There are signs I would put up " NO handouts at this house " ," If you can see this sign your in range " , " No trespassing " , " beware of dog " , " There is nothing here worth dying for ". If you have friends that live around you set a plan to be able to talk to them by a 2-way radio , everyone in our group has 2-ways so we can keep in touch when SHTF , or any other thing that may happen .


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## Jackangus

A bit of common sense will see you right. Don't just shoot people because you think the rules don't apply anymore.
Easier said than done i'm sure, but don't be some paranoid idiot who thinks any stranger that wanders into your property is there to take all your stuff and kill your family.
There seems to be a lot of those types on this forum, shoot first, ask questions later.


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## Slippy

Excellent question, Einstein,

I take my Rules of Engagement from The Book Of Slippy, chapter 4 verse 12;

"If ye shall stumble upon a field of heads rotting upon shiny, well made sharpened Pikes of Steel, heed thy warning, LEAVE, and ye shall LIVE. Ignore thy warning and suffer ye consequences of ye retarded action. Let it be written, let it be done".

Thanks for asking! :vs_wave:



ciprep said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed before, but this is a question I've thought about a lot here recently. After a sustained "situation" in which things don't bounce back, how does this community view the rules during an engagement where there is no rule of law? I value human life quite a lot, but I realize that not everyone will in a scenario where's there is conflict at any level. There will be those that are lawless that will prey upon the weak (and just about anyone else for that matter). In the military obviously there's ROE, but at which point is lethal force justified? I recently got into a strong "discussion" with someone in which he argued that if someone showed up on his doorstep demanding food or water, he'd prefer to use lethal force out of fear that they may go and get a mob and return to his home. I just don't can't imagine killing people out of fear of what may happen, but then again, if we're truly in a WROL scenario, if you're stupid enough to make demands you may not live.
> 
> Just curious how others have processed their views on basic rules of engagement. Curious if there's been any good articles, forum threads or blog posts on this issue anyone has found (or has their own opinion on the matter).
> 
> Thanks!


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## Chipper

Threaten or trespass and bang flop. Pretty simple.


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## Camel923

I prefer to feint epidemic to keep others away. I am not willing to sacrifice my families survival so the answe to the question is to move them along as quickly as possible. Ignoring this will put me on alert to alterior motives. Who knows if this is an act to scout you, getting someone in your midist for an unseen pending attack or so on. In nondesperate times you get burned trusting others, I only see that magnified in the parameters of this discussion but with very deadly/adverse consequences.


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## A Watchman

Jackangus said:


> A bit of common sense will see you right. Don't just shoot people because you think the rules don't apply anymore.
> Easier said than done i'm sure, but don't be some paranoid idiot who thinks any stranger that wanders into your property is there to take all your stuff and kill your family.
> There seems to be a lot of those types on this forum, shoot first, ask questions later.


Jack,
Just curious and realize you may not want to disclose ... but do you store guns and ammo as part of your preparedness and Patriot planning?


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## Smitty901

Each of us will act according to our moral beliefs. As God has commanded charity will be extended. If you approach with hostel intend then you will be dealt with. We, due to our prepping and experience will have room to give you a chance but will act went required. You are asking will those that approach with evil intend will die yes.
If we lose our humanity , if the holy sprit in us goes dark then we have already lost .


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## Denton

Jackangus said:


> A bit of common sense will see you right. Don't just shoot people because you think the rules don't apply anymore.
> Easier said than done i'm sure, but don't be some paranoid idiot who thinks any stranger that wanders into your property is there to take all your stuff and kill your family.
> There seems to be a lot of those types on this forum, shoot first, ask questions later.


Interesting.

Common sense. How does common sense work when determining threats? Shoot/don't shoot situations?


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## A Watchman

Denton said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Common sense. How does common sense work when determining threats? Shoot/don't shoot situations?


The worldview of common sense when applied to self defense situations can quickly redefine themselves, depending if one is looking up or looking down.


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## Sonya

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> If they threaten you kill them, simple


I see the question as one of being approached, not just picked off from a distance (as the later would be obviously hostile and not a matter of debate).

In the real world they DON'T threaten! Just like robbers today they approach in a friendly manner so the victim allows them to come close, opens the door, walks over to talk to them at the gate or whatever. When they decide to act they already have the advantage and you are playing catch up.

IMO the only way to win is simply not to play. That means avoid engaging with strangers all together, but don't let the residence appear empty. Besides the less they know about the inhabitants the less likely they are to target the residence.



Targetshooter said:


> There are signs I would put up " NO handouts at this house " ," If you can see this sign your in range " , " No trespassing " , " beware of dog " , " There is nothing here worth dying for ".


And forget printed signs, I have "No Tresspassing" and "Beware of Dog" signs now on the gate and people still think it doesn't apply to them. Workmen try to enter, or strangers that want directions think if they stay outside the gate and force me to come out to greet them it is okay. Sheesh I am pretty darn unfriendly now, it won't be much of a change to become completely antisocial after a disaster.

Hand painted (and crudely worded) signs blocking their path would be the best.


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## A Watchman

Sonya said:


> Sheesh I am pretty darn unfriendly now, it won't be much of a change to become completely antisocial after a disaster.


So I hear ...


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## 6811

ciprep said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed before, but this is a question I've thought about a lot here recently. After a sustained "situation" in which things don't bounce back, how does this community view the rules during an engagement where there is no rule of law? I value human life quite a lot, but I realize that not everyone will in a scenario where's there is conflict at any level. There will be those that are lawless that will prey upon the weak (and just about anyone else for that matter). In the military obviously there's ROE, but at which point is lethal force justified? I recently got into a strong "discussion" with someone in which he argued that if someone showed up on his doorstep demanding food or water, he'd prefer to use lethal force out of fear that they may go and get a mob and return to his home. I just don't can't imagine killing people out of fear of what may happen, but then again, if we're truly in a WROL scenario, if you're stupid enough to make demands you may not live.
> 
> Just curious how others have processed their views on basic rules of engagement. Curious if there's been any good articles, forum threads or blog posts on this issue anyone has found (or has their own opinion on the matter).
> 
> Thanks!


If someone shows up on my doorstep, it's time for me to pull the plug. That means I have been over run by the enemy. At about 1000 yards, you will be sent a message to discourage your approach to my doorstep. At 700, it means you have ignored my message and you have shown disregard for your own life.


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## Hemi45

I hope to God I never learn, firsthand, what I *will* do. However, I'm pretty sure what I *would* do is address any threat with overwhelming violence. I'm not paranoid but neither am I trusting by nature. Now that we have a baby, I won't suffer a fool and his threats in the parking lot at Publix much less in a WORL environment. Despite how the majority of us grew up understanding the Ten Commandments, the intent is actually "Thou shall not murder" as opposed to "kill." Be it today, during a Katrina/NOLA disaster or in the zombie apocalypse I will put down any threat to my family. God willing, though, I'll never have to.


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## SOCOM42

Simple answer, in WROL, you make your own rules, and have to live by and with them.

Remember, others will make theirs also, maybe to your detriment.


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## Illini Warrior

Jackangus said:


> A bit of common sense will see you right. Don't just shoot people because you think the rules don't apply anymore.
> Easier said than done i'm sure, but don't be some paranoid idiot who thinks any stranger that wanders into your property is there to take all your stuff and kill your family.
> There seems to be a lot of those types on this forum, shoot first, ask questions later.


I wouldn't exactly depend on your everyday normal "common sense" in a "shoot or be shot" type serious SHTF - more like some pre-thought & determined judgement point .... the trouble with your normal common sense is that applies to normal scenario and people acting normal - both sooooo freaking skewed & twisted that it no longer applies .... somewhat comparing your Leave It To Beaver waspy suburban neighborhood to surviving after your Family Truckster stalls in Chicago's Southside Shooting Gallery - where even 80 year great grandmas are armed to survive ....

you mention that people on the site have a pre-conceived idea that they'll be shooting people ... one of advantages of prepping and communicating with other preppers is having a mental sort of boot camp of what can be expected .... the vast majority of US citizens have absolutely no idea of what REAL hardship entails - even the homeless street people don't starve .... hard to conceive the chaos and desperation we'll be experiencing - but full scenario preppers at least are somewhat mentally accepting of what will be necessary to survive ....


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## Coastie dad

One word, hand painted on a board at the end of the road:

Quarantined.


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## MisterMills357

My rule of thumb is, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you", and "Love thy neighbor as thyself." But, that has limits; and like everything in life,
you have to make the best decision that you can.

I will put it all over a mob, if a mob show up, and likewise, I will shoot a killer if a killer shows up. And that is discretionary---what little I might be able to employ.
{Certain circumstances are inimical to discretion and mercy. One cannot be merciful to the stone-hearted for instance.}
I do not murder, because I do not want to be murdered; and I will aid anyone in need. Because it might be me, who needs help, and you reap what you sow.:vs_love:
Having said that, no one in their right mind wants to mess with me, I am what you would call, The Real McCoy.:vs_cool:


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## Maine-Marine

we will give out either peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or hot lead depending on how we are approached. 

We will be charitable but cautious

we will have a plan to kill everybody we meet...if we do it depends on them

We will be sad if if have to kill..but we will sit down to a good supper anyway

we will not murder


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## MisterMills357

Maine-Marine said:


> we will give out either peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or hot lead depending on how we approached.
> 
> We will be charitable but cautious
> 
> we will have a plan to kill everybody we meet...if we do it depends on them
> 
> We will be sad if if have to kill..but we will sit down to a good supper anyway
> 
> we will not murder


A man after mine own heart right there; feed them if you can, and kill them if you have to.


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## Prepared One

Rules? No rules. You survive.


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## inceptor

Part of your approach will depend on where you live. Rural vs Urban. If you live in BFE, then you're options are different than if you are an Urban dweller.

I'm in Suburbia. In my area, so many have moved in and out I have little idea who many of my neighbors are. This used to be a neighborhood of snowflakes. I don't think there are many snowflakes left. The wife and I are the old people here. The rest with kids get to know each other because of the kids. I pretty much stay to myself. Most know I'm into ham radio and some have asked me about it. But if things go downhill, I think many will band together. I will be a part of that. Roadblocks and screening people is part of my plan.


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## Maine-Marine

MisterMills357 said:


> A man after mine own heart right there; feed them if you can, and kill them if you have to.


I like it "feed them if you can, and kill them if you have to."


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## inceptor

Prepared One said:


> Rules? No rules. You survive.


Re-reading your post brought another thought. If things get that bad here, it may take a while but the state will kick back into gear. In the past 3-5 years the talk of Texas independence has grown stronger. It used to be dismissed out of hand in the legislature but now it has gained a foothold. It may take time but I think we will be one of the first one's back on their feet. We are one of a few states that have our own state guard.


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## A Watchman

inceptor said:


> Re-reading your post brought another thought. If things get that bad here, it may take a while but the state will kick back into gear. In the past 3-5 years the talk of Texas independence has grown stronger. It used to be dismissed out of hand in the legislature but now it has gained a foothold. It may take time but I think we will be one of the first one's back on their feet. We are one of a few states that have our own state guard.


And that we can .... but with 5 of the Country's most populist cities within our borders .... how much of the real peril is within our own borders?

Houston
San Antonio
Dallas
Fort Worth
Austin
El Paso (teeters in and out of the top 20 and would make 6 cities)


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## inceptor

A Watchman said:


> And that we can .... but with 5 of the Country's most populist cities within our borders .... how much of the real peril is within our own borders?
> 
> Houston
> San Antonio
> Dallas
> Fort Worth
> Austin
> El Paso (teeters in and out of the top 20 and would make 6 cities)


Several points to consider.

1. Texas by itself is ranked as the 12th largest in the world.
2. Texas provides the US government more money than it receives back.
3. Not long ago many states began the process to create their own monetary system. Texas was among them.
4. Texas is only one of two states that could survive on their own WITHOUT govt assistance.

But the biggest point is do you really think all the freebee lovers and snowflakes will last long if it ever does get that ugly?


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## A Watchman

inceptor said:


> Several points to consider.
> 
> 1. Texas by itself is ranked as the 12th largest in the world.
> 2. Texas provides the US government more money than it receives back.
> 3. Not long ago many states began the process to create their own monetary system. Texas was among them.
> 4. Texas is only one of two states that could survive on their own WITHOUT govt assistance.
> 
> But the biggest point is do you really think all the freebee lovers and snowflakes will last long if it ever does get that ugly?


I suppose in a real SHTF scenario the snowflakes could be used as soylent green huh?


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## inceptor

A Watchman said:


> I suppose in a real SHTF scenario the snowflakes could be used as soylent green huh?


I suspect either that or fodder.


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## inceptor

@A Watchman, don't forget God brought us here for a reason.


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## preponadime

We believe in helping everyone and we will if we can however if we are in an SHTF situation and rule of law does not exist once you cross onto our land you are under our rules.
We live at the end of a 5-mile private road the road dead ends at our gate. You will most likely have been challenged by someone along the road before you get this far. If there is any sign of hostile intent there are are no rules of engagement and it probably won't go well for you.


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## inceptor

The biggest issue all will have to face is there will be bands of bad guys out there. Some will have learned they can survive better by being part of the gang.

These gangs will also have people they send out to test/infiltrate to see how strong you are and what you have. This will be the hardest part. For if they send out a woman with a couple of kids, they are hard to refuse.


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## Jackangus

A Watchman said:


> Jack,
> Just curious and realize you may not want to disclose ... but do you store guns and ammo as part of your preparedness and Patriot planning?


Absolutely have weapons and ammo. I'm ex military like a lot of you guys too.


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## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Common sense. How does common sense work when determining threats? Shoot/don't shoot situations?


Of course you need common sense when or not engaging another human. Would you shoot a child who trespassed on your land? Would you shoot a 12 year old kid who threatened to steal what you had if you did not give him food? 
Another person stumbles on to your property disorientated and hurt. Common sense would say any these scenarios would not warrant shooting the person. Of course at the back of your mind you may be thinking is this a trap or a recce to see how your defenses are. Shooting the person could make things worse for lots of reasons. 
If you think you don't need common sense that is worrying.


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## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Of course you need common sense when or not engaging another human. Would you shoot a child who trespassed on your land? Would you shoot a 12 year old kid who threatened to steal what you had if you did not give him food?
> Another person stumbles on to your property disorientated and hurt. Common sense would say any these scenarios would not warrant shooting the person. Of course at the back of your mind you may be thinking is this a trap or a recce to see how your defenses are. Shooting the person could make things worse for lots of reasons.
> If you think you don't need common sense that is worrying.


That is threat assessment. It takes more than "common sense." While that child is at your front door, begging for food, her accompanying adults are about to break down your back door and roll through your house, shooting everything that moves.

You made the assertion that a lot of people on this board are willing to "shoot first and ask questions, later." On the other hand, there are those who are going to be dead, not because of a lack of common sense, but because they are lacking in situational awareness and are unable to think outside of their usual box.


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## Jackangus

Denton said:


> That is threat assessment. It takes more that "common sense." While that child is at your front door, begging for food, her accompanying adults are about to break down your back door and roll through your house, shooting everything that moves.
> 
> You made the assertion that a lot of people on this board are willing to "shoot first and ask questions, later." On the other hand, there are those who are going to be dead, not because of a lack of common sense, but because they are lacking in situational awareness and are unable to think outside of their usual box.


There are a lot of people that will shoot first ask questions later. This is my point: " While that child is at your front door, begging for food, her accompanying adults are about to break down your back door and roll through your house, shooting everything that moves".
That border lines on paranoid. And if you think like that, you are going to shoot everyone on sight. Like I said, have that in the back of your mind, but I would not be thinking that is the norm.
Is much as this is possible, it seems really walking dead type stuff to me.

Preppers have a crazy name the world over, because of this everyone one is out to get me and steal my stuff attitude. Maybe it would be like that, but probably not is bad as you may think. 
I am not naive, and I am more than competent of protecting myself and family. If you start killing everyone that comes on your property, it wont be long before you get killed.


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## Denton

Jackangus said:


> There are a lot of people that will shoot first ask questions later. This is my point: " While that child is at your front door, begging for food, her accompanying adults are about to break down your back door and roll through your house, shooting everything that moves".
> That border lines on paranoid. And if you think like that, you are going to shoot everyone on sight. Like I said, have that in the back of your mind, but I would not be thinking that is the norm.
> Is much as this is possible, it seems really walking dead type stuff to me.
> 
> Preppers have a crazy name the world over, because of this everyone one is out to get me and steal my stuff attitude. Maybe it would be like that, but probably not is bad as you may think.
> I am not naive, and I am more than competent of protecting myself and family. If you start killing everyone that comes on your property, it wont be long before you get killed.


Did I say shoot the child? Nope. You are simply enjoying painting people with your brush.

That you see someone's ability to consider the tactics of those who want to kill and steal as a paranoid desire to shoot first is your problem and not mine.


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## Targetshooter

Jackangus said:


> Of course you need common sense when or not engaging another human. Would you shoot a child who trespassed on your land? Would you shoot a 12 year old kid who threatened to steal what you had if you did not give him food?
> Another person stumbles on to your property disorientated and hurt. Common sense would say any these scenarios would not warrant shooting the person. Of course at the back of your mind you may be thinking is this a trap or a recce to see how your defenses are. Shooting the person could make things worse for lots of reasons.
> If you think you don't need common sense that is worrying.


No I wouldn't kill a 12 y/o , but I would fill there azz with rock salt .


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## inceptor

Jackangus said:


> Preppers have a crazy name the world over, because of this everyone one is out to get me and steal my stuff attitude. Maybe it would be like that, but probably not is bad as you may think.
> I am not naive, and I am more than competent of protecting myself and family. If you start killing everyone that comes on your property, it wont be long before you get killed.


It's that way in cities now. Look at NY City, Chicago, LA, SF Philly and others. They want to take what you have and things are not bad yet. Imagine how bad it will be WROL.
















And you think it won't get worse when the SHTF?


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## Denton

From MPD:

"At approximately 7:00 PM in the 1800 block of Newton Street, NW, a group of juveniles ranging in age from 10 to 17, robbed an adult male. They beat him badly and took his wallet and cell phone. Concerned citizens who observed this happening quickly called 9-1-1. Officers quickly responded and located 4 juveniles running in the south alley of the 1800 block of Newton Street, NW. The juveniles had the victims credit cards and cell phone. They also had blood on their clothing. All 4 were arrested."

?a group of juveniles ranging in age from 10 to 17, robbed an adult male. They beat him badly? | PoPville

Oh, yeah; it'll be a lot worse were we to fall into a WROL situation.


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## SOCOM42

What many of you may not realize is that a 12 YO is quite capable of killing your ass.

Ask those who were on the ground in NAM what the kids did. 

This could be debated forever.

The simple solution, kill everything you think may be a threat or not, err in either way and you may die.

Jakangus, have you ever been in a large scale riot lasting days??? Well I have, the Watts riots of 1965.

People turn into animals, given the right time and location during one, you will get killed over a pack of cigarettes.

Those you say scoff at prepper's are closed minded assholes who will be the first to go after begging or trying to steal food.. 

You speak that, and I think of the metroturds and other Hillary followers, all better than us, they think.

I don't care what people the world over think of prepper's or of what I do, and yes if I think a threat exist post SHTF I will deal with it.

Very simple, post SHTF, people will either be begging or stealing, not much else in between.


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## ekim

I'll take the back lash for profiling, but the op is from the heart of komiefornia and is IMO asking a question that should be a no brainer for the situation he is talking about. I would hope he doesn't have sharp objects or guns yet because he doesn't seem to know what he should do in a "bad" situation. I don't go to the internet to tell me what to do or get advice from who knows whom it's coming from. And yes that would include me also.


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## inceptor

Jackangus said:


> There are a lot of people that will shoot first ask questions later. This is my point: " While that child is at your front door, begging for food, her accompanying adults are about to break down your back door and roll through your house, shooting everything that moves".
> That border lines on paranoid. And if you think like that, you are going to shoot everyone on sight. Like I said, have that in the back of your mind, but I would not be thinking that is the norm.
> Is much as this is possible, it seems really walking dead type stuff to me.
> 
> Preppers have a crazy name the world over, because of this everyone one is out to get me and steal my stuff attitude. Maybe it would be like that, but probably not is bad as you may think.
> I am not naive, and I am more than competent of protecting myself and family. If you start killing everyone that comes on your property, it wont be long before you get killed.


Let me explain something here. I grew up in the inner city. I grew up around and with these types of people. I never expected to live to see 30. And that was back in the late 60's into the 70's. Things weren't nearly as bad as they are now.

I don't care what you believe but I'm going tell you my truth. At 29, God gave me a second chance. I took it and ran hard with it. I've never looked back.

Do I look forward to a SHTF or WROL scenario? Not one bit. I have a good life, married way above my pay grade (28 years last month) and I live a life that I could have never even considered growing up. I am in my mid 60's and have a very comfortable existence. Given a choice, I would rather not give up my lifestyle. I don't own a BMW, I drive a 14yr old 4Runner I bought new. It may need a paint job now but I'm happy with it. I live in middle class suburbia and like it here. I retire in 1.5 yrs. My wife is retired and went back to work. Our plan is travel, not to fight off punks who want what we have. I will if I have to but would rather not.

I have not forgotten my roots and can go from 0 to a$$hole in 1.6 seconds if pushed. (It used to be 1.2 seconds but then I got old) I have not forgotten how people were then and that type has not changed. If anything, it has gotten worse.

So no, I'm not itching for a fight, I avoid that if at all possible. I did all my fighting in my younger days and am getting to old for that stuff. Still, I'm no snowflake that's going to be run over either.

Do I believe in charity? You bet. I also prep for charity. But you can bet I will be wary and watching.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Did I say shoot the child? Nope. You are simply enjoying painting people with your brush.
> 
> That you see someone's ability to consider the tactics of those who want to kill and steal as a paranoid desire to shoot first is your problem and not mine.


Bore off Denton.
You are clearly one of the shoot first ask questions later.
Maybe you will survive longer than me but I bet there will be a shit load of innocent people dead in the process.
You are why most of the world think preppers are paranoid loons.


----------



## Jackangus

inceptor said:


> Let me explain something here. I grew up in the inner city. I grew up around and with these types of people. I never expected to live to see 30. And that was back in the late 60's into the 70's. Things weren't nearly as bad as they are now.
> 
> I don't care what you believe but I'm going tell you my truth. At 29, God gave me a second chance. I took it and ran hard with it. I've never looked back.
> 
> Do I look forward to a SHTF or WROL scenario? Not one bit. I have a good life, married way above my pay grade (28 years last month) and I live a life that I could have never even considered growing up. I am in my mid 60's and have a very comfortable existence. Given a choice, I would rather not give up my lifestyle. I don't own a BMW, I drive a 14yr old 4Runner I bought new. It may need a paint job now but I'm happy with it. I live in middle class suburbia and like it here. I retire in 1.5 yrs. My wife is retired and went back to work. Our plan is travel, not to fight off punks who want what we have. I will if I have to but would rather not.
> 
> I have not forgotten my roots and can go from 0 to a$$hole in 1.6 seconds if pushed. (It used to be 1.2 seconds but then I got old) I have not forgotten how people were then and that type has not changed. If anything, it has gotten worse.
> 
> So no, I'm not itching for a fight, I avoid that if at all possible. I did all my fighting in my younger days and am getting to old for that stuff. Still, I'm no snowflake that's going to be run over either.
> 
> Do I believe in charity? You bet. I also prep for charity. But you can bet I will be wary and watching.


I completely agree with this.
I will do everything to avoid a fight, but if it comes to it I certainly can defend myself.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Bore off Denton.
> You are clearly one of the shoot first ask questions later.
> Maybe you will survive longer than me but I bet there will be a shit load of innocent people dead in the process.
> You are why most of the world think preppers are paranoid loons.


Hmmm, seems you are simply looking for a fight. Either you came here for that, maybe after some prompting, or you are simply lashing out because of your poorly constructed assumptions and accusations. Either way, you do not disturb me.

On the other hand, you are showing bad judgement and the desire to antagonize. Yeah, your hands will be clean. Sure. Poor judgement always leads to better outcomes.


----------



## Sonya

SOCOM42 said:


> What many of you may not realize is that a 12 YO is quite capable of killing your ass.
> 
> Very simple, post SHTF, people will either be begging or stealing, not much else in between.


Agree. The belief that "every situation needs to be evaluated and pondered until they do something violent" is BS. Set boundaries and stick to them (and hopefully let any that may cross them _accidentally_ be warned off).

For most of us it won't be easy to use deadly force (especially in WROL when we have to do our own cleanup or deliver unexpected followup kill shots when they aren't dying as promptly as expected), but one thing that will sure as heck make it much harder and lead to fatal hesitation will be talking to them, hearing their voice and sob story, getting a good look at their face, seeing them as regular joe's etc... Don't humanize or identify with threats you may need to kill.

It will lead to hesitation, and hesitating for most of us won't just mean we will forfeit our lives for our stupid mistake. It means those we love will die horrible deaths because of our mistake.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Hmmm, seems you are simply looking for a fight. Either you came here for that, maybe after some prompting, or you are simply lashing out because of your poorly constructed assumptions and accusations. Either way, you do not disturb me.
> 
> On the other hand, you are showing bad judgement and the desire to antagonize. Yeah, your hands will be clean. Sure. Poor judgement always leads to better outcomes.


Not sure about the bad judgement. I only said I would not be so quick to shoot someone. Your saying that is poor judgement.
I am not antagonizing you at all, I just don't agree with you.

You can't say i'm wrong and your right, there are a million different scenarios that could play out, and a million different outcomes to those scenarios depending on the action you take.
So you have no right to say I have poor judgement over a few posts I have made, you know nothing about me, or my background.
Obviously you and I have completely different ways of doing things, but who is to say your right, or i'm right, just different ways of thinking


----------



## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> So you have no right to say I have poor judgement over a few posts I have made, you know nothing about me, or my background.
> Obviously you and I have completely different ways of doing things, but who is to say your right, or i'm right, just different ways of thinking


We have every right to say it.

Denton is right and you are wrong.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Not sure about the bad judgement. I only said I would not be so quick to shoot someone. Your saying that is poor judgement.
> I am not antagonizing you at all, I just don't agree with you.
> 
> You can't say i'm wrong and your right, there are a million different scenarios that could play out, and a million different outcomes to those scenarios depending on the action you take.
> So you have no right to say I have poor judgement over a few posts I have made, you know nothing about me, or my background.
> Obviously you and I have completely different ways of doing things, but who is to say your right, or i'm right, just different ways of thinking


Really? 


> Bore off Denton.
> You are clearly one of the shoot first ask questions later.
> Maybe you will survive longer than me but I bet there will be a shit load of innocent people dead in the process.
> You are why most of the world think preppers are paranoid loons.


Let's skip the "bore off," crap.
You don't know me or my past. If you did, you'd now how stupid your assertion that I'd shoot first, is. 
My possible living longer will have nothing to do with the death of innocent people. Again, nothing but a baseless assertion.
Your last comment? Same as the other two.

Now, back to the topic, if you think you can manage doing so in a rational manner. Got a problem with situational awareness and the ability to think of the potential strategies of potential bad guys, or do you think your "common sense" will somehow make you a better man, as you get caught by surprise and left with no other response but panicked bullet-launching - assuming you are able to even do that before being killed?

You claim to know what I would do, even though I didn't offer any actions.


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> Agree. The belief that "every situation needs to be evaluated and pondered until they do something violent" is BS. Set boundaries and stick to them (and hopefully let any that may cross them _accidentally_ be warned off).
> 
> For most of us it won't be easy to use deadly force (especially in WROL when we have to do our own cleanup or deliver unexpected followup kill shots when they aren't dying as promptly as expected), but one thing that will sure as heck make it much harder and lead to fatal hesitation will be talking to them, hearing their voice and sob story, getting a good look at their face, seeing them as regular joe's etc... Don't humanize or identify with threats you may need to kill.
> 
> It will lead to hesitation, and hesitating for most of us won't just mean we will forfeit our lives for our stupid mistake. It means those we love will die horrible deaths because of our mistake.


You are crazy. You sounded pretty hateful on this post.
I expect that mentality with men, but not so much with women.

I don't know if your are saying this to sound really tough and impress the men on here, or you really are a nasty piece of work.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Really?
> 
> Let's skip the "bore off," crap.
> You don't know me or my past. If you did, you'd now how stupid your assertion that I'd shoot first, is.
> My possible living longer will have nothing to do with the death of innocent people. Again, nothing but a baseless assertion.
> Your last comment? Same as the other two.
> 
> Now, back to the topic, if you think you can manage doing so in a rational manner. Got a problem with situational awareness and the ability to think of the potential strategies of potential bad guys, or do you think your "common sense" will somehow make you a better man, as you get caught by surprise and left with no other response but panicked bullet-launching - assuming you are able to even do that before being killed?
> 
> You claim to know what I would do, even though I didn't offer any actions.


You are a complete idiot Denton, just like your friend Sonja.


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> We have every right to say it.
> 
> Denton is right and you are wrong.


Pipe down woman, have you ever been in combat? I bet not.


----------



## A Watchman

Something tells me this pissin contest just hit a DEFCON 2 level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON


----------



## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> You are crazy. You sounded pretty hateful on this post.
> I expect that mentality with men, but not so much with women.
> 
> I don't know if your are saying this to sound really tough and impress the men on here, or you really are a nasty piece of work.


LOL. Not sure what kind of touchy feely metrosexual males are the norm where you come from, but if you are an example that says a lot.

The ******* men around here are most certainly a whole lot tougher than I am, but the women also have common sense and know where to draw the line, which is something you obviously lack.

BTW buying a shotgun doesn't make you any sort of great "male defender" most especially when you lack the gonads to use it. I don't think you would stand a chance against hard core predators, unless of course you just plain panicked and got lucky.


----------



## ekim

Sounds like, posts like, good chance it's a troll.


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> LOL. Not sure what kind of touchy feely metrosexual males are the norm where you come from, but if you are an example that says a lot.
> 
> The ******* men around here are most certainly a whole lot tougher than I am, but the women also have common sense, which is something you obviously lack.


I'm Scottish, not really known for being soft. You sound like you have bigger balls than most of the men on here, But I think that's a front, just wanna impress.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> You are a complete idiot Denton, just like your friend Sonja.


There you go, again. Not able to support your assertions, so you go straight to attacks. I'm thinking I know why. You're going to be a hero, aren't you. I hear immaturity is cool to some.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> There you go, again. Not able to support your assertions, so you go straight to attacks. I'm thinking I know why. You're going to be a hero, aren't you. I hear immaturity is cool to some.


Denton I hope you have seen combat to be lecturing me about bullets flying.
At least tell me you know how it feels to hear a whizz and a crack.


----------



## Hemi45

Well, damn. This is breaking down nicely


----------



## tango

Right now, many folks have absolutely no regard for human life.
In a WROL situation, does anyone really think that will not increase throughout the population?

Do what YOU think you have to do.
Isn't that why "protection" is a part of being ready for whatever comes?


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Denton I hope you have seen combat to be lecturing me about bullets flying.
> At least tell me you know how it feels to hear a whizz and a crack.


I've been on the receiving end of bullets, and that has what to do with this?

Lecturing? You seem to have it backwards, pal. You're the one who came here, looking to tell us how we are going to be the ones killing innocent people. As a matter of fact, this is another example of you attempting to flip things around and duck points. Between that and going to insults, you are a piece of work.


----------



## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> I'm Scottish, not really known for being soft. You sound like you have bigger balls than most of the men on here, But I think that's a front, just wanna impress.


I know my weaknesses and vulnerabilities therefore I will do my best to compensate for them. I also have a lot of respect for the hard core sociopathic and often very persuasive predators in our society, they cannot be underestimated.

The saying "Don't fight with old people; they will just kill you" also applies to smart aware females.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> I've been on the receiving end of bullets, and that has what to do with this?
> 
> Lecturing? You seem to have it backwards, pal. You're the one who came here, looking to tell us how we are going to be the ones killing innocent people. As a matter of fact, this is another example of you attempting to flip things around and duck points. Between that and going to insults, you are a piece of work.


"as you get caught by surprise and left with no other response but panicked bullet-launching - assuming you are able to even do that before being killed"

There is one of your quotes.
You have lectured me all the way through. I even extended an olive branch by saying neither of us is right nor wrong, but you didn't agree.
I said YOU would shoot first, not everyone.

I am not a novice in combat, I have done five tours between Iraq and Afghanistan, so don't treat me like I know nothing about when the bullets start flying.


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> I know my weaknesses and vulnerabilities therefore I will do my best to compensate for them. I also have a lot of respect for the hard core sociopathic and often very persuasive predators in our society, they cannot be underestimated.
> 
> The saying "Don't fight with old people; they will just kill you" also applies to smart aware females.


I want to apologize Sonja, I know nothing about you and this is getting a little out of hand. I only jumped on you cause you jumped in and I felt a little ganged up on. 
I am a decent guy and don't want to argue with you guys. you are fellow preppers. We don't have to agree on everything. 
I apologize again.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> "as you get caught by surprise and left with no other response but panicked bullet-launching - assuming you are able to even do that before being killed"
> 
> There is one of your quotes.
> You have lectured me all the way through. I even extended an olive branch by saying neither of us is right nor wrong, but you didn't agree.
> I said YOU would shoot first, not everyone.
> 
> I am not a novice in combat, I have done five tours between Iraq and Afghanistan, so don't treat me like I know nothing about when the bullets start flying.


And, you immediately took issue with situational awareness and contemplating the strategies of those who will mean you harm. No, you simply wanted to assert we're just a bunch of shoot-first kind of folks.

Now, you are a combat vet, and one who takes issue with the very things all soldiers and cops know to do.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> I want to apologize Sonja, I know nothing about you and this is getting a little out of hand. I only jumped on you cause you jumped in and I felt a little ganged up on.
> I am a decent guy and don't want to argue with you guys. you are fellow preppers. We don't have to agree on everything.
> I apologize again.


Then, rationally discuss. It is quite simple. That is how new concepts are offered.


----------



## inceptor

Sonya said:


> The saying "Don't fight with old people; they will just kill you" also applies to smart aware females.


Roger that.

Underestimating anyone would get you killed. Thinking that people won't change for the worse in a SHTF or WROL situation will also get you killed.

Try really studying what happened during Katrina. People were killed for really stupid stuff. It was a predators dream.

Here is just one tale.

Stadium Hurricane Refuge Like a 'Concentration Camp' | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> And, you immediately took issue with situational awareness and contemplating the strategies of those who will mean you harm. No, you simply wanted to assert we're just a bunch of shoot-first kind of folks.
> 
> Now, you are a combat vet, and one who takes issue with the very things all soldiers and cops know to do.


I said some people on this forum, not everyone.
Again, not sure what you mean. Cops and soldiers do not get trained to shoot first ask question later.
That is my only issue. Why are we even arguing about what i feel like the right thing is to do?
That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. You are like a dog with a bone.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Then, rationally discuss. It is quite simple. That is how new concepts are offered.


Why are you even responding to this post? It has nothing to do with you.
I was apologizing to Sonja, not you.


----------



## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> Why are you even responding to this post? It has nothing to do with you.
> I was apologizing to Sonja, not you.


As far as your apology, you were noticeably rude to me on your shotgun thread and I figured it was because you had a problem with women. Thought maybe I was jumping to conclusions but heck, turns out I was right!

And that is one of the reasons I jumped in. I am not apologizing or implying that I will let bygones by bygones and play nice. If you have a problem with women I will do my best to give you a few more reasons to dislike us.


----------



## inceptor

Sonya said:


> If you have a problem with women I will do my best to give you a few more reasons to dislike us.


And you're good at it too :vs_laugh:


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> I said some people on this forum, not everyone.
> Again, not sure what you mean. Cops and soldiers do not get trained to shoot first ask question later.
> That is my only issue. Why are we even arguing about what i feel like the right thing is to do?
> That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. You are like a dog with a bone.


Sure, you are entitled to your opinion.

You said a lot, not some...



> A bit of common sense will see you right. Don't just shoot people because you think the rules don't apply anymore.
> Easier said than done i'm sure, but don't be some paranoid idiot who thinks any stranger that wanders into your property is there to take all your stuff and kill your family.
> There seems to be a lot of those types on this forum, shoot first, ask questions later.


You were triggered by the notion of situational awareness and planning; something a cop or a soldier would have understood. Still, it triggered you. Beats me why it did.

Common sense is nothing more than knowledge learned by either observation or first hand experience. Placing one's hand in a fire, for example. That goes against common sense.
Sure, some things will be common sense. Stay off the street. Lock the doors. The obvious things. 
Common sense can be a dangerous thing, though. An example would be the child. Examples were offered where children are already predators, and this isn't a WROL situation. Sure, common sense tells us to be wary of a gang of seedy looking thugs, but not taking into consideration that there are kids without conscience can endanger one's life and the lives of one's family.
Understanding this doesn't make one trigger-happy, as you asserted.

Why are we arguing? You tell me.

Oh, and I am entitled to my opinion, too; right?


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Why are you even responding to this post? It has nothing to do with you.
> I was apologizing to Sonja, not you.


Simple, or it should be. I was offering you a way to conduct yourself in a manner where you won't have to apologize, anymore.


----------



## Sonya

inceptor said:


> Roger that.
> 
> Underestimating anyone would get you killed. Thinking that people won't change for the worse in a SHTF or WROL situation will also get you killed.


Plus I have watched a fair number of real crime videos where people are attacked on the street, or in their homes or whatever. In most cases it happens so darn fast! People that think they are "situationally aware" and can prevent it, or they can read people because perp will give off threats or other signs are kidding themselves.

It doesn't play out the way the good guy imagines that it will. The predators have the plan and that always gives them the advantage most especially when the victim allows them to approach.

IMO folks need to ask themselves "what would a sociopath do in this situation?" as that removes the emotion and takes the analysis down to the bare bones of risk/reward.


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> As far as your apology, you were noticeably rude to me on your shotgun thread and I figured it was because you had a problem with women. Thought maybe I was jumping to conclusions but heck, turns out I was right!
> 
> And that is one of the reasons I jumped in. I am not apologizing or implying that I will let bygones by bygones and play nice. If you have a problem with women I will do my best to give you a few more reasons to dislike us.


Wow, you are a yucky person. I bet your ugly too.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Wow, you are a yucky person. I bet your ugly too.


There you go again with the personal attacks. Lovely.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Sure, you are entitled to your opinion.
> 
> You said a lot, not some...
> 
> You were triggered by the notion of situational awareness and planning; something a cop or a soldier would have understood. Still, it triggered you. Beats me why it did.
> 
> Common sense is nothing more than knowledge learned by either observation or first hand experience. Placing one's hand in a fire, for example. That goes against common sense.
> Sure, some things will be common sense. Stay off the street. Lock the doors. The obvious things.
> Common sense can be a dangerous thing, though. An example would be the child. Examples were offered where children are already predators, and this isn't a WROL situation. Sure, common sense tells us to be wary of a gang of seedy looking thugs, but not taking into consideration that there are kids without conscience can endanger one's life and the lives of one's family.
> Understanding this doesn't make one trigger-happy, as you asserted.
> 
> Why are we arguing? You tell me.
> 
> Oh, and I am entitled to my opinion, too; right?


You are clearly a know it all. I bet you have never seen combat. probably a cop or something.
I'm still right, but there is no way I will get you to admit I might even be remotely right.

Sorry guys, but there is a reason the rest of the world think Americans are dumb, and gun ho, Because most of you are.
You are so inward looking, and not really concerned with the rest of the world.
I would never admit I was a prepper cause it's embarrassing, everyone thinks we are crazy. Mainly down to the gun toting all the gear no idea yanks.
I am sure if the SHTF you will kill each other.
If your Denton or Sonja you will probably kill anything that moves, and get great pleasure from it.

Clear to say this is my last post.

Only saying what the rest of the world is thinking.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> There you go again with the personal attacks. Lovely.


You really are a queer Denton aren't you.


----------



## warrior4

In such a situation I think there are some strategies that will help. Round the clock watch with multiple people on watch at all times. Never let anyone past certain checkpoints without clear identification of who they are. Always operate with at least one other person, never go anywhere alone. Make sure everyone able to bear arms is capable of doing so, they don't have to always be on watch, but should be able to pick them up when needed. Do your best to avoid attracting attention. Remain vigilant at all times. If there are clear signs of hostile intent than meet force with enough force to stop force being used against you. I've no interest in becoming a raider and taking from others. I've also no interest in laying down and not defending my family and life. That's my personal take.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> You are clearly a know it all. I bet you have never seen combat. probably a cop or something.
> I'm still right, but there is no way I will get you to admit I might even be remotely right.
> 
> Sorry guys, but there is a reason the rest of the world think Americans are dumb, and gun ho, Because most of you are.
> You are so inward looking, and not really concerned with the rest of the world.
> I would never admit I was a prepper cause it's embarrassing, everyone thinks we are crazy. Mainly down to the gun toting all the gear no idea yanks.
> I am sure if the SHTF you will kill each other.
> If your Denton or Sonja you will probably kill anything that moves, and get great pleasure from it.
> 
> Clear to say this is my last post.
> 
> Only saying what the rest of the world is thinking.


I know what I think of you, that is for sure. You are an insecure want-to-be-know-it-all, who is not capable of rational discussion but only insult and twisting of words. Probably a poser, as well. Strong women scare you, too.
As far as your opinion of Americans, understand we do not care, and you are pretty arrogant to think we care.


----------



## Hemi45

Jackangus said:


> You are clearly a know it all. I bet you have never seen combat. probably a cop or something.
> I'm still right, but there is no way I will get you to admit I might even be remotely right.
> 
> Sorry guys, but there is a reason the rest of the world think Americans are dumb, and gun ho, Because most of you are.
> You are so inward looking, and not really concerned with the rest of the world.
> I would never admit I was a prepper cause it's embarrassing, everyone thinks we are crazy. Mainly down to the gun toting all the gear no idea yanks.
> I am sure if the SHTF you will kill each other.
> If your Denton or Sonja you will probably kill anything that moves, and get great pleasure from it.
> 
> *Clear to say this is my last post.*
> 
> Only saying what the rest of the world is thinking.


Well ... bye, Jackanus.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> I know what I think of you, that is for sure. You are an insecure want-to-be-know-it-all, who is not capable of rational discussion but only insult and twisting of words. Probably a poser, as well. Strong women scare you, too.
> As far as your opinion of Americans, understand we do not care, and you are pretty arrogant to think we care.


America are the most arrogant country there is. I know you don't care. The rest of the world knows as well.
You Denton, have never seen combat I am sure, but you like to make out you would know what to do if the SHTF. You watch lots of TV and movies. I bet you love the walking dead.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> You really are a queer Denton aren't you.


Oh, there you go, again. You just can't help it. Probably a confused thirteen year. That'd be my guess. That'd explain not being able to discuss a topic in a rational way.

I also see why you think we are crazy, gunslingers. We are able to openly carry weapons. They aren't theoretical for us.


----------



## Jackangus

Hemi45 said:


> Well ... bye, Jackanus.


Bye ****, I mean Hemi.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> America are the most arrogant country there is. I know you don't care. The rest of the world knows as well.
> You Denton, have never seen combat I am sure, but you like to make out you would know what to do if the SHTF. You watch lots of TV and movies. I bet you love the walking dead.


Ist person shooting games take a lot of your time, kid?


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Bye ****, I mean Hemi.


You know, it looks to me as if you are trolling for a date.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Oh, there you go, again. You just can't help it. Probably a confused thirteen year. That'd be my guess. That'd explain not being able to discuss a topic in a rational way.
> 
> I also see why you think we are crazy, gunslingers. We are able to openly carry weapons. They aren't theoretical for us.


Maybe one day you will get to use one in anger Denton. I'm sure you can't wait for that.


----------



## Jackangus

Catch you later Benton.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Maybe one day you will get to use one in anger Denton. I'm sure you can't wait for that.


I'm sure you are sure, kid.


----------



## Hemi45

So much for his "last post" ... outstanding follow through!


----------



## Denton

Hemi45 said:


> So much for his "last post" ... outstanding follow through!


Kind of like an STD; a gift that keeps on giving.


----------



## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> You really are a queer Denton aren't you.


LOL. If anyone is coming off as queer it's you.

You dislike and insult women yet you talk about impressing men, you only want advice from men etc... It is more than a little odd. No doubt you hoped a prepper forum would be a bastion of male sweat, muscle flexing and machismo.

There are plenty of websites devoted to that theme but prepper sites don't exist for that errrm...purpose. KWIM?


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

This is an interesting philosphical debate, and this isn't the first place I've seen it. There are tons of videos on youtube where they discuss this topic. It is mainly situational, what isn't a threat to your life now may be a threat to your life when it hits the fan. An example, now car thieves hardly get any time in jail especially if its their first offense, back in the old west horse thieves where summarily hung because the reasoning was if you stole a mans horse out in the frontier you condemned him to death so you where a murderer. That apply s today as well. If I catch somebody breaking into my shed or siphoning gas from my car I call the police and they come and take him away and I'm out the cost of repairs or a gas refill. If this occurs when SHTF that gas may power the generator that keeps my perishable food cold and those tools in the shed are essential to growing food or performing maintenance around the house. In effect that act that was a misdemeanor offense is now threatening my very life.

In my state the law is that one is justified in using deadly force when any reasonable person would think there was a bonifide threat of death or grievous bodily injury. In other words they where in my house, they tried to rob/hurt me outside of my house, or they tried to burn my house down and I was in fear for my life. There is some gray area there because there is no duty to attempt to retreat. That's good enough for the law of man but like others here have stated I believe in the law of God and I want to be able to look him in the eye when judgement is passed on me knowing I did everything to prevent situations like that and if there was one I couldn't then there was nothing more that I could do.


----------



## Coastie dad

I miss all the fun, tonight!

Is the sheepshagger still with us?
He reminds me of someone I miss, and I feel late to the party...


----------



## inceptor

Jackangus said:


> You really are a queer Denton aren't you.


I'd have @Denton at my side anytime :vs_laugh: The same goes for a few others here.

ETA: I think you've been the ass but that just my personal opinion.


----------



## Denton

inceptor said:


> I'd have @Denton at my side anytime :vs_laugh: The same goes for a few others here.
> 
> ETA: I think you've been the ass but that just my personal opinion.


I'd be honored to be there, with you.


----------



## Denton

Coastie dad said:


> I miss all the fun, tonight!
> 
> Is the sheepshagger still with us?
> He reminds me of someone I miss, and I feel late to the party...


He got all butt-hurt and left. He couldn't rattle us with insults and we stayed on target, showing where he couldn't. Bless his heart.


----------



## NobleSKS

I remember a pod cast "the prepper podcast " mentioning how selfless a prepper is or can be, if you consider: the prepper is self sufficient, not needing community resources; conscientious and preps for the neighbor or friends in need (cheap food : beans, rice; cheap meds/first aid) by giving a little in rations-hopefully received with gratitude and reservations about imposing again by recipient. May prevent being strong armed by someone who knows/thinks you have prep. 
Another point made in same episode: they talked about knowing your neighbors and if it did GO DOWN, ideally turn your street,block or neighborhood into a FRIGGN SWEET COMPOUND. 
As for survivin and how far I think I'd be willing go if it were that bad. Always joked with my backpacking buddies ; " I'd eat your arms first, that way you'll still be able to walk and I wouldn't have to carry your carcass." 
I'd be pretty desperate and selfish. I'd be pretty paranoid as well and wouldn't doubt someone coming back with a crew. I'd eat his arms first, so that he could still pedal my bicycle powered generator. 


James 1:22


----------



## NobleSKS

Too bad I wasn't here to meet Jackanus, he seemed fun. 


James 1:22


----------



## SOCOM42

He might be back after he Band-Aid's his but.

Was only referencing this thread, he will say.

I can't believe how he went after Denton.

He could not catch on at all.


----------



## SOCOM42

I just went through his postings, he is not from here.

Most likely that is why he is pissy towards Americans and women.


----------



## Ragnarök

1. How many are approaching and how are they walking? Are they spread out or are they single file ect? If it is a large group spread out they are there to kill you and take your stuff. On the other hand if it is one person I would read into body language, what they say, and what their eyes tell me.

2. Are they armed visibly? If there are up to 3 people visibly armed I will most likely shoot first and handle the situation without wasting too much time over thinking it. Visibly armed in my mind is way too aggressive to be approaching a home. If there are more than three I will try to escape if I am by myself. 

I will help children, and the elderly. In a world where people are killing others for food,medicine, whatever....everyone else is there to kill me until they prove otherwise.


----------



## Inor

To Denton and all of the rest of my friends here that have known me for years -

You guys disappointed me tonight. You guys know me well enough to know that retards like Jackoff (or whatever his name is) are SO much fun to me, I did not check back on this thread until just about 20 minutes ago and find it is 12 pages long and the last 6 of which are nothing but Jackoff insulting ya'll and nobody thought to invite ol' Inor to the party?!? Is a one-sentance PM that freakin' hard to write?!?

Thanks a lot...

-I-

P.S. Call your mother! She misses you dammit!


----------



## Denton

Inor said:


> To Denton and all of the rest of my friends here that have known me for years -
> 
> You guys disappointed me tonight. You guys know me well enough to know that retards like Jackoff (or whatever his name is) are SO much fun to me, I did not check back on this thread until just about 20 minutes ago and find it is 12 pages long and the last 6 of which are nothing but Jackoff insulting ya'll and nobody thought to invite ol' Inor to the party?!? Is a one-sentance PM that freakin' hard to write?!?
> 
> Thanks a lot...
> 
> -I-
> 
> P.S. Call your mother! She misses you dammit!


My bad. I promise to not forget about you the next time a group Christmas present comes early.

Your son,
Denton

PS - Tell Mom I love her.


----------



## inceptor

Inor said:


> To Denton and all of the rest of my friends here that have known me for years -
> 
> You guys disappointed me tonight. You guys know me well enough to know that retards like Jackoff (or whatever his name is) are SO much fun to me, I did not check back on this thread until just about 20 minutes ago and find it is 12 pages long and the last 6 of which are nothing but Jackoff insulting ya'll and nobody thought to invite ol' Inor to the party?!? Is a one-sentance PM that freakin' hard to write?!?
> 
> Thanks a lot...
> 
> -I-
> 
> P.S. Call your mother! She misses you dammit!


I KNEW IT! Inor's misguided child.


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> I miss all the fun, tonight!
> 
> Is the sheepshagger still with us?
> He reminds me of someone I miss, and I feel late to the party...


Rather be a sheepshagger than a dumb fat yank.


----------



## Jackangus

SOCOM42 said:


> I just went through his postings, he is not from here.
> 
> Most likely that is why he is pissy towards Americans and women.


I like woman, but your right, yanks suck balls.


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> LOL. If anyone is coming off as queer it's you.
> 
> You dislike and insult women yet you talk about impressing men, you only want advice from men etc... It is more than a little odd. No doubt you hoped a prepper forum would be a bastion of male sweat, muscle flexing and machismo.
> 
> There are plenty of websites devoted to that theme but prepper sites don't exist for that errrm...purpose. KWIM?


Whatever chubbs.


----------



## Jackangus

There is a reason why people think preppers are nuts, you guys.
You are a bunch of paranoid losers that can't wait for the world to implode.
The problem is, Americans are fat. If the SHTF you wont be able to get out of your rocking chairs to fight back. Probably best to do some cardio.
Before you give me I hate America bs, its true, America is one of the obese countries in the world.
You guys couldn't fight diabetes never mind each other.


----------



## Coastie dad

Awww...it's back...how precious.

So. Should we have intelligent discourse, or would you prefer I go directly to your level and call you a sheep shagging fop?
You said you were in the military, so I assume you're the 'roo screwer that heard "Roger that" over the radio, and began humping the first goat you saw?
You call Denton queer, but you're the one talking about yank this and yank that, wanker.
So, since you apparently have nothing intelligent to add to this thread, and neither do I, how about we adjourn this little love fest to a more appropriate location, or do you need an audience here to help your testes not draw up so far inside you choke on the dried up little things, hm?


----------



## Coastie dad

Oh, and I really don't care how you feel about Americans. It looks like all you want to follow tonight is stir up a fight. 
Like I said..you remind me of another turd we flushed.


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> Oh, and I really don't care how you feel about Americans. It looks like all you want to follow tonight is stir up a fight.
> Like I said..you remind me of another turd we flushed.


It's not just me that feels this way about Americans, it's pretty much the whole world. Including your good friends the Brits.
We used to joke about the yanks, all the gear no idea. 
Soldier for soldier us Brits are ten times better soldiers.


----------



## Coastie dad

Calling us fat....talk about teenage attempts at hurting our feelings.
C'mon guy. Really? What are you, 14? 15?


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> Calling us fat....talk about teenage attempts at hurting our feelings.
> C'mon guy. Really? What are you, 14? 15?


I bet you are fat though.


----------



## Ragnarök

I saw some fatties in London Town last time I visited that cesspool. There are idiots everywhere jackangus. Congratulations for being the representation for England.


----------



## Coastie dad

Yeah, yeah...whatever.

Sounds like intramural insults amongst soldiers. I trained some of your British soldiers in recon 30 some years ago. Nice guys. I liked them. I don't believe you could make a pimple on any of their asses. 
But, what else should we expect from a snot nosed little acne ridden poodle shooter like you, all geared up for your next round of call of duty just as soon as yo mammy gets the hot pockets out of the oven?:vs_smirk:


----------



## Coastie dad

Oohh....that hurt...I bet if you'd eat some fudge that you packed you wouldn't be so scrawny..:vs_smirk::vs_lol::vs_laugh:


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> Yeah, yeah...whatever.
> 
> Sounds like intramural insults amongst soldiers. I trained some of your British soldiers in recon 30 some years ago. Nice guys. I liked them. I don't believe you could make a pimple on any of their asses.
> But, what else should we expect from a snot nosed little acne ridden poodle shooter like you, all geared up for your next round of call of duty just as soon as yo mammy gets the hot pockets out of the oven?:vs_smirk:


There is no way a yank could train a British soldier, that would be impossible.


----------



## Coastie dad

Come on opie...you're a little slow on the response time...


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> Yeah, yeah...whatever.
> 
> Sounds like intramural insults amongst soldiers. I trained some of your British soldiers in recon 30 some years ago. Nice guys. I liked them. I don't believe you could make a pimple on any of their asses.
> But, what else should we expect from a snot nosed little acne ridden poodle shooter like you, all geared up for your next round of call of duty just as soon as yo mammy gets the hot pockets out of the oven?:vs_smirk:


A yank could maybe train an Afgani or Iraqi or something of that caliber, and thats a big maybe.


----------



## Coastie dad

Jackangus said:


> There is no way a yank could train a British soldier, that would be impossible.


Well, with you maybe. They were great guys. We learned a lot from each other and they were fun. But, they, unlike you, were men.


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> Come on opie...you're a little slow on the response time...


Give me a break, i'm beating one off at the same time. It's quite tricky.


----------



## Coastie dad

And that yank thing again...you a tugboy?


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> Well, with you maybe. They were great guys. We learned a lot from each other and they were fun. But, they, unlike you, were men.


I bet they bummed the hell out of you.


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> And that yank thing again...you a tugboy?


What's a tugboy?


----------



## Coastie dad

Jackangus said:


> Give me a break, i'm beating one off at the same time. It's quite tricky.


See? I knew you liked this stuff..:vs_laugh:


----------



## Coastie dad

Damn. Here I sit, an old fat Yank, and I'm Jacks masturbatory Fantasy! Whoo hoo!


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> See? I knew you liked this stuff..:vs_laugh:


Tell you what, you guys stick together i'll give you that. Have a disagreement with one guy and you need to take cover.


----------



## warrior4

Can we just stop now? This is getting old and childish. Take it to PM and let's get back on topic.


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> Damn. Here I sit, an old fat Yank, and I'm Jacks masturbatory Fantasy! Whoo hoo!


Its not gay if you just think about the fatness and leave the gender out of it.


----------



## Coastie dad

I asked him to go elsewhere. 
But he needs an audience. I will, however, refrain.


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> I asked him to go elsewhere.
> But he needs an audience. I will, however, refrain.


Take some responsibility you baby.
You were enjoying this as much as me.


----------



## Coastie dad

Never denied that.:vs_smirk:
But there are better places for it.
So, :vs_peace: for now, k?


----------



## Jackangus

Coastie dad said:


> Never denied that.:vs_smirk:
> But there are better places for it.
> So, :vs_peace: for now, k?


I better stop with the yank shit, I might get murdered.
I actually really like Americans.
Most of what I have said on this thread has been in jest.


----------



## Coastie dad

Don't pick on Denton. He's a real deal type. I'm more harassable.
He may want to kick my butt for the way I acted, but....there are better places for these shenanigans. P.M. me later and I'll point you down the yellow brick road.


----------



## A Watchman

Coastie dad said:


> Don't pick on Denton. He's a real deal type. I'm more harassable.
> He may want to kick my butt for the way I acted, but....there are better places for these shenanigans. P.M. me later and I'll point you down the yellow brick road.


(A Watchman smiles with his crooked grin) ... Aint Christmas grand? Especially an early one!


----------



## Smitty901

I as some others here know being forced to threaten or take another life is very seriously. Being forced to take a life is some thing that can not be undone. The life you take will never have a chance to change. The life you live will always show some effect from it. There are bad people in this world, when the time comes to face them there is no time to worry about how they got that way. Not a subject to be taken lightly. Doubt cause delay, delay causes failure.


----------



## Urinal Cake

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> If they threaten you kill them, simple
> 
> ...also, dont go booty raping anyone that dont need booty raping
> 
> sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


Soooo Skull F'ing is out?


----------



## Sonya

Smitty901 said:


> *I as some others here know being forced to threaten or take another life is very seriously. Being forced to take a life is some thing that can not be undone. The life you take will never have a chance to change.* The life you live will always show some effect from it. There are bad people in this world, when the time comes to face them there is no time to worry about how they got that way. Not a subject to be taken lightly. Doubt cause delay, delay causes failure.


That is one of those universal "truthisms" in our society that I really question. Maybe it is partly a Christian thing because they think they are sending a bad person to hell without another chance for redemption? I have a strong belief in the afterlife and whether they are good or evil I expect they will be just fine, so that may factor into it.

Obviously there are people that take multiple lives and don't seem to have a problem with it. Yet our society as a whole keeps pushing the concept that most "will be horribly changed forever" and I don't think it is true for many.

I don't say this lightly, I have really thought about it and am old enough to know how I react to things. Maybe there is some quirk in the human brain that will fire off and cause severe remorse after it happens? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it. I will say I think taking an animal's life would be very hard for me simply because I feel a strong desire to protect/nurture all animals, wild or domestic, but I don't feel the same regarding humans. Though even in the case of an animal if I had to do it I would get over it (unless it was one of my own).

Would be interested to hear other's thoughts. There are veterans here so I assume some have first hand experience.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> There is a reason why people think preppers are nuts, you guys.
> You are a bunch of paranoid losers that can't wait for the world to implode.
> The problem is, Americans are fat. If the SHTF you wont be able to get out of your rocking chairs to fight back. Probably best to do some cardio.
> Before you give me I hate America bs, its true, America is one of the obese countries in the world.
> You guys couldn't fight diabetes never mind each other.


Well, lookie what mom let out of his room! Good morning, kid!

All these pages and you finally said something worth reading. For once, you are making some sense.

I'm 53, 6'00" tall and 180 pounds. I'm not in the shape I once was, but I'm no longer in the army and chronic pain from those days slows me down quite a bit. Still, I'm in better shape than a lot of my coworkers who are 20 to 25 years younger than me. Why? Overall, our diet is terrible. Why? People eat way too much processed garbage containing less nutrients and more empty calories.
Wifey gets comments from cashiers as they are ringing up our groceries. They are amazed at how we eat. Fresh veggies, fruits and nuts. Nothing in a box. Absolutely no soft drinks! I look at what other people are buying and I see why we are the oddballs. Too me, it appears as if everyone else is trying to slowly kill themselves.

Vegetables are the main components of a meal, while it seems everyone else is concentrating on carbs. Wheat products, mainly.

Years ago, a friend who is Shin Bet took a trip to Chicago. One of the things she couldn't stop talking about was the rampant obesity. She'd been in many countries, but she'd never seen so many obese people. "Government sanctioned diet" was my response. The FDA's food pyramid encourages it.

As far as the rest of your, "You are all paranoid people making us all look bad" crap, you are still looking for a fight. Got things to do, today, and no time for it.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> I better stop with the yank shit, I might get murdered.
> I actually really like Americans.
> Most of what I have said on this thread has been in jest.


We don't go around shooting people, Jack. We don't like depleting our inventories. You have us confused with the Chicago Gang Bangers Club forum. :vs_cool:


----------



## Coastie dad

Denton has a point on the diet thing.
I'm a lot heavier than I was when playing army. But, I'm in better shape still yet than a lot of people 20 years younger, even thirty years younger.
I've tried to hire teenagers to help around the farm as an extra set of hands. They usually don't last because we work too hard.


----------



## Sonya

Denton said:


> I'm 53, 6'00" tall and 180 pounds. I'm not in the shape I once was, but I'm no longer in the army and chronic pain from those days slows me down quite a bit. Still, I'm in better shape than a lot of my coworkers who are 20 to 25 years younger than me. Why? Overall, our diet is terrible. Why? People eat way too much processed garbage containing less nutrients and more empty calories.
> Wifey gets comments from cashiers as they are ringing up our groceries. They are amazed at how we eat. Fresh veggies, fruits and nuts. Nothing in a box. Absolutely no soft drinks! I look at what other people are buying and I see why we are the oddballs. Too me, it appears as if everyone else is trying to slowly kill themselves.


You are on a paleo diet right? Yeah that will keep the fat off especially if people don't eat 3+ meals a day. Diets high in carbs encourage frequent eating because the blood sugar spikes fast, then crashes and causes hunger pangs for another meal.

I don't eat paleo but eat a heck of a lot healthier than most southerners (plus smoke to even out the health effects). Usually have 1 or 1.5 meals a day which keeps the weight off and lets me eat whatever I want with no thought about the amount of butter, fat, desserts etc.... Though I was surprised when I finally moved to a rural area, the ******** out here are NOT fat. They don't eat well but are all outdoorsmen that garden, hunt, fish, run around in the woods etc...and that keeps them in surprisingly good shape.

Carbs really do pack on weight, I can see why poor people are fat when they buy a bunch of processed carb junk instead of sales shopping. Even small hi carb meals will add pounds.


----------



## Coastie dad

Truth. I radically cut back carbs over the summer. Dropped thirty pounds in a little over a month.


----------



## Denton

Sonya said:


> You are on a paleo diet right? Yeah that will keep the fat off especially if people don't eat 3+ meals a day. Diets high in carbs encourage frequent eating because the blood sugar spikes fast, then crashes and causes hunger pangs for another meal.
> 
> I don't eat paleo but eat a heck of a lot healthier than most southerners (plus smoke to even out the health effects). Usually have 1 or 1.5 meals a day which keeps the weight off and lets me eat whatever I want. Though I was surprised when I finally moved to a rural area, the ******** out here are NOT fat. They are all outdoorsmen that garden, hunt, fish, run around in the woods etc...and that keeps them in surprisingly good shape.
> 
> Carbs really do pack on weight, I can see why poor people are fat when they buy a bunch of processed carb junk instead of sales shopping. Even small hi carb meals will add pounds.


Try and explain that to those people. You'd think you were suggesting they sell their TV sets - which is another rant I could start.

I avoid the break rooms, preferring to sit outside and read during breaks, because I don't like the noise, and I can't stand watching fat-bodies waddle up to the junk food machine for a couple honeybuns and a cinnamon roll or two. Suicide should be performed in private settings; I don't want to watch it.


----------



## Sonya

Denton said:


> Try and explain that to those people. You'd think you were suggesting they sell their TV sets - which is another rant I could start.
> 
> I avoid the break rooms, preferring to sit outside and read during breaks, because I don't like the noise, and I can't stand watching fat-bodies waddle up to the junk food machine for a couple honeybuns and a cinnamon roll or two. Suicide should be performed in private settings; I don't want to watch it.


They may also do it to relieve stress. Hi carb foods increase serotonin in the brain and produce a calming effect, hence the term "comfort foods". That is why some stressed or depressed people pig out on junk food while others drink. Both carbs and alcohol temporarily raise serotonin and some other feel good brain chemicals.


----------



## Denton

Sonya said:


> They may also do it to relieve stress. Hi carb foods increase serotonin in the brain and produce a calming effect, hence the term "comfort foods". That is why some stressed or depressed people eat while others drink.


Guess who has to do the confined space jobs where I work, while the "stressed" people watch. Yeah, I can imagine the stress they feel. :vs_mad:


----------



## A Watchman

Denton said:


> Guess who has to do the confined space jobs where I work, while the "stressed" people watch. Yeah, I can imagine the stress they feel. :vs_mad:


If ya need some advice on that confined space thing .... well you know yourself .... pick one of the other two positions, and leave the entrant position to a liberal coworker.


----------



## A Watchman

Denton said:


> Try and explain that to those people. You'd think you were suggesting they sell their TV sets - which is another rant I could start.
> 
> I avoid the break rooms, preferring to sit outside and read during breaks, because I don't like the noise, and I can't stand watching fat-bodies waddle up to the junk food machine for a couple honeybuns and a cinnamon roll or two. Suicide should be performed in private settings; I don't want to watch it.


If ya think for one damn minute that we will skip the fish fry at our little PF get together with Cricket in Texas ....


----------



## SOCOM42

Hey monkey glands, learning to speak Farsi yet ?

Seems like all the MP's are being replaced by muzslime bastards.

Little history lesson, if it wasn't for the US, you would be speaking German.

It took the US and all the armor we gave England to kick the Afrika Korps out of North Africa, Monty would have fallen on his bloody face.

Not one Lancaster, Spitfire, Hurricane, Beaufighter or other would have gotten off the ground without American avgas.

And you all would have starved to death if American convoys didn't bleed to bring you food and ammo.

Further, the Falklands would probably be called the Malvinas today without our help. 

I do concede, far too many people here are fat cows, it is disgusting, I see it every day.

Me, I am 5'8" @ 173 pounds.

Now back to you and your abbo relatives, no one here gives a damn what you think about us prepper's.

In another era or two we were all gangsters or ***** killing cowboys.

There has always been some demeaning commentary coming from you euroturds,

a bunch of unthankful bastards who have no clue to our generosity,

three quarters of Europe would not be alive today if not for the Martial Plan. 

Assholes like you will always remain assholes, up with you.


----------



## Denton

SOCOM42 said:


> Hey monkey glands, learning to speak Farsi yet ?
> 
> Seems like all the MP's are being replaced by muzslime bastards.
> 
> Little history lesson, if it wasn't for the US, you would be speaking German.
> 
> It took the US and all the armor we gave England to kick the Afrika Korps out of North Africa, Monty would have fallen on his bloody face.
> 
> Not one Lancaster, Spitfire, Hurricane, Beaufighter or other would have gotten off the ground without American avgas.
> 
> And you all would have starved to death if American convoys didn't bleed to bring you food and ammo.
> 
> Further, the Falklands would probably be called the Malvinas today without our help.
> 
> I do concede, far too many people here are fat cows, it is disgusting, I see it every day.
> 
> Me, I am 5'8" @ 173 pounds.
> 
> Now back to you and your abbo relatives, no one here gives a damn what you think about us prepper's.
> 
> In another era or two we were all gangsters or ***** killing cowboys.
> 
> There has always been some demeaning commentary coming from you euroturds,
> 
> a bunch of unthankful bastards who have no clue to our generosity,
> 
> three quarters of Europe would not be alive today if not for the Martial Plan.
> 
> Assholes like you will always remain assholes, up with you.


Dang it, man; you are always so subtle. I never quite know where you stand! :laugh:


----------



## SOCOM42

Denton said:


> Dang it, man; you are always so subtle. I never quite know where you stand! :laugh:


Grumpy old man syndrome, I guess.

Being self employed for 4 decades kind of makes you independent, outspoken and unrepentant,

plus I don't give a shit, I say it like I see it.

This asshole has the crown's thumb on him and he has no clue, a minion.


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

Urinal Cake said:


> Soooo Skull F'ing is out?


Still on the menu 

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

I seem to always fall of these threads thinking they'll die and they turn really fun...I even missed eurotrash commentary, damn!

Here are some more thoughts on a situation like this, especially since I saw kids get mentioned - I think pretty much everyone heard of teenagers in Afghanistan/Iraq being enlisted as suicide bombers or shooting up convoys, it is an uncomfortable topic for a lot of people, especially if they have kids themselves, however it is still a topic that needs to be covered.

Before I left the SOF world and went into the 101st, the unit I would eventually go into went on a deployment, cowered in their FOBs are is usual for conventional forces post 2011 and still took one casualty - a FO got stabbed in his neck by a 13 year old kid selling CDs on the FOB, doesn't matter how much older/stronger/quicker/armored you are - this comment goes with those cops who got blasted by that car jacker - underestimation in threat assessments will get you killed. Does that mean get ready to kill everyone you see in the real world? No, but don't get complacent and think a band of Children of the Corn who shows up in a SHTF situation won't kill you dead.

For those who are bugging in/fortifying, or even bugging out, if it gets that bad there are plenty of us on this forum who saw what evil looks like, by all estimation a mass kill-off/EMP event will bring us back to about the 2nd Industrial Revolution levels of tech/development (1860ish) - Afghanistan, parts of South America, Iraq, Africa...these countries are like that, that is why people are crazy and desperate over there.

I have laid a few anecdotes from my time spent with SOCSOUTH in support of counter-narcotic missions in South America, those rotations were always filled with death - people getting raped (dudes raping other dudes) over generators or rice, kids murdering each other, killing their parents, cartels quelling villages...that is an everyday thing down there.

If anyone is under the delusion that people here in America will be civil, and loving, and work in communities in any sort of SHTF event you are dead wrong; panic and fear are the things that will turn society into a maelstrom of chaos and evil, it never fails to succeed. You see how desperate people get in Wally World if a bad storm is coming, running each other over and getting into fist fights over Cheetos - and that is knowing they have their 3-series BMWs to get in to go back home and watch reruns of Mob Wives and having running water/electricity....

Now take those same people, except set their BMW on fire, blow up their house, take their money...and all their supplies, it'll turn anyone desperate. I am distrustful by nature, you had to be growing up in NYC, in a SHTF the people that will die are the ones who 1) take the brunt of the 'event' i.e. whoever gets nuked/patient zero'ed/killed in a disaster 2) unprepared people will die off in 30-45 days 3) people who are nice/let their guard down

Kids have been killing people forever, it is no different at the end of the world - so yes, if I see some people - women, children, men...they get in my perimeter and I get a funny feeling about them - they're dying...not taking that chance. You hesitate, you die, I have seen it first hand...check points of Colombian SF get blown up or operators get killed by kids, women or people they think aren't a threat. It might make you uncomfortable, or you might thing that it won't happen, but if a SHTF situation does happen it can and it will.

So boom, there are my ROEs - you look funny you die, age and gender is just a thing that you have been socially conditioned to disregard, not me.


----------



## Prepared One

SOCOM42 said:


> Hey monkey glands, learning to speak Farsi yet ?
> 
> Seems like all the MP's are being replaced by muzslime bastards.
> 
> Little history lesson, if it wasn't for the US, you would be speaking German.
> 
> It took the US and all the armor we gave England to kick the Afrika Korps out of North Africa, Monty would have fallen on his bloody face.
> 
> Not one Lancaster, Spitfire, Hurricane, Beaufighter or other would have gotten off the ground without American avgas.
> 
> And you all would have starved to death if American convoys didn't bleed to bring you food and ammo.
> 
> Further, the Falklands would probably be called the Malvinas today without our help.
> 
> I do concede, far too many people here are fat cows, it is disgusting, I see it every day.
> 
> Me, I am 5'8" @ 173 pounds.
> 
> Now back to you and your abbo relatives, no one here gives a damn what you think about us prepper's.
> 
> In another era or two we were all gangsters or ***** killing cowboys.
> 
> There has always been some demeaning commentary coming from you euroturds,
> 
> a bunch of unthankful bastards who have no clue to our generosity,
> 
> three quarters of Europe would not be alive today if not for the Martial Plan.
> 
> Assholes like you will always remain assholes, up with you.


Well, that about sums things up nicely. :vs_cool: It appears jack anus makes friends as well as Willie2


----------



## Urinal Cake

I would think the pretorion guard is the one that needs to worry the most as their gear vests full auto weapons etc. would make them a target for their equipment/gear.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Post SHTF I will carry a firearm everywhere I go and keep one next to me on those special shower days when we have extra water.

I know that a kid can kill you... I heard stories from Marines who had served in vietnam. 

I am glad I live in a snow and cold area.. it will reduce the amount of zombie motorcycle gang members. As it is now the powers that be forget to plow my road from time to time. the unprepared here will be lucky if shtf is not in the winter time. I see those that are not ready heading into town or larger cities THINKING there will be more help there from the government.

The folks that live the nearest to me (the guy is an banker) spend their money on new cars, new clothes, and toys for their kids...

I stock things because I care about my family...instead of the coolest jeans we buy good jeans, instead of steak all the time we buy burger and hot dogs, we use coupons and do not take expensive vacations.... we have fun, live well, work hard, and worship weekly........ I will not give up my property easily - to punks or government raiders 
And I will protect my family (and Friends) with my last breath....

to try and take my property would be an error... and as Marines know "To Err is Human, To Forgive Divine: However Neither is Marine Corps Policy"

Goodnight Chesty Puller.........


----------



## A Watchman

Maine-Marine said:


> Post SHTF I will carry a firearm everywhere I go and keep one next to me on those special shower days when we have extra water.
> 
> I know that a kid can kill you... I heard stories from Marines who had served in vietnam.
> 
> I am glad I live in a snow and cold area.. it will reduce the amount of zombie motorcycle gang members. As it is now the powers that be forget to plow my road from time to time. the unprepared here will be lucky if shtf is not in the winter time. I see those that are not ready heading into town or larger cities THINKING there will be more help there from the government.
> 
> The folks that live the nearest to me (the guy is an banker) spend their money on new cars, new clothes, and toys for their kids...
> 
> I stock things because I care about my family...instead of the coolest jeans we buy good jeans, instead of steak all the time we buy burger and hot dogs, we use coupons and do not take expensive vacations.... we have fun, live well, work hard, and worship weekly........ I will not give up my property easily - to punks or government raiders
> And I will protect my family (and Friends) with my last breath....
> 
> to try and take my property would be an error... and as Marines know "To Err is Human, To Forgive Divine: However Neither is Marine
> Corps Policy"
> 
> Goodnight Chesty Puller.........


Threat of motorcycle gangs ya say? I always wanted a bike ..... or a few. There are enough deer rifles in my territory to pick em off as they loudly approach. Unless of course they intend on pushing them around place to place.


----------



## Jackangus

SOCOM42 said:


> Hey monkey glands, learning to speak Farsi yet ?
> 
> Seems like all the MP's are being replaced by muzslime bastards.
> 
> Little history lesson, if it wasn't for the US, you would be speaking German.
> 
> It took the US and all the armor we gave England to kick the Afrika Korps out of North Africa, Monty would have fallen on his bloody face.
> 
> Not one Lancaster, Spitfire, Hurricane, Beaufighter or other would have gotten off the ground without American avgas.
> 
> And you all would have starved to death if American convoys didn't bleed to bring you food and ammo.
> 
> Further, the Falklands would probably be called the Malvinas today without our help.
> 
> I do concede, far too many people here are fat cows, it is disgusting, I see it every day.
> 
> Me, I am 5'8" @ 173 pounds.
> 
> Now back to you and your abbo relatives, no one here gives a damn what you think about us prepper's.
> 
> In another era or two we were all gangsters or ***** killing cowboys.
> 
> There has always been some demeaning commentary coming from you euroturds,
> 
> a bunch of unthankful bastards who have no clue to our generosity,
> 
> three quarters of Europe would not be alive today if not for the Martial Plan.
> 
> Assholes like you will always remain assholes, up with you.


America would have followed suit with the speaking German or Japenese. What do you think Germany would have done after taking over Europe if that ever happened? you guys would have been next. 
If pearl harbour never happened you would never have even joined the war. Fair enough, you helped with supplies, but it was in your interest, sentence above.
As far as the Falklands are concerned I am sure you guys helped with some resupply and logistics, but that is it. We kicked the Argentinians arses. And we would have, regardless of America. 
If there is one country you can't call wimps it's Britain, we punch well above our weight. I don't think there are any countries on the planet that would like to have a dust up with Britain.


----------



## Denton

Of course no nation wants a dust-up with GB. The US has its back. I don't imagine that ever changing.


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> As far as your apology, you were noticeably rude to me on your shotgun thread and I figured it was because you had a problem with women.


Could you quote me on when I was rude to you on my shotgun post? 
I have never been rude to anyone apart from this thread.


----------



## SOCOM42

Jackangus said:


> America would have followed suit with the speaking German or Japenese. What do you think Germany would have done after taking over Europe if that ever happened? you guys would have been next.
> If pearl harbour never happened you would never have even joined the war. Fair enough, you helped with supplies, but it was in your interest, sentence above.
> As far as the Falklands are concerned I am sure you guys helped with some resupply and logistics, but that is it. We kicked the Argentinians arses. And we would have, regardless of America.
> If there is one country you can't call wimps it's Britain, we punch well above our weight. I don't think there are any countries on the planet that would like to have a dust up with Britain.


As far as us entering the war is concerned, it was only a matter of time either way, the pearl attack shortened the time by 6 months to a year.

One or two US flagged ships sunk would have done it.

We were kept out because of asshole isolationist, and more so, the industrial shift to war production, timing.

What many don't know is, the US had started the build up in 1938,

they knew the war was coming, new battleships, carriers, destroyers and cruisers were already on the ways, contracts for B17's, B25's, B26's, P40's,

and a lot of others were handed out, the two ocean navy law in 1940 opened up a plethora of ship building.

We were not going in with a half empty gun or ship, that supply line was not going to be short, that is what the Industrial Production Board was all about.

We, in the Argentine conflict mid air refueled the Vulcan bombers both ways, refueled warships in mid Atlantic, provided SATINTEL on Argentine movements.

Yeah, you did a great job kicking their asses, and I was rooting for your side. You would have suffered more losses without our help, which by the by was covert.

I worked with guys from SAS and SBS who operated there, top grade fighters.

I would never call the Brit military wimps, they never have been, leaders that is another thing, just because your some royal, does not make you a leader.

The guys on the line suffered badly from poor/incompetent leadership over centuries, Flanders and Gallipoli ring a bell?

I am wondering, are they going to start carrying prayer rugs replacing tea time with prayers to allahole?

I wonder how long it will be before Bow Bells are shut up because they insult the muzslime bastards?


----------



## Jackangus

SOCOM42 said:


> As far as us entering the war is concerned, it was only a matter of time either way, the pearl attack shortened the time by 6 months to a year.
> 
> One or two US flagged ships sunk would have done it.
> 
> We were kept out because of asshole isolationist, and more so, the industrial shift to war production, timing.
> 
> What many don't know is, the US had started the build up in 1938,
> 
> they knew the war was coming, new battleships, carriers, destroyers and cruisers were already on the ways, contracts for B17's, B25's, B26's, P40's,
> 
> and a lot of others were handed out, the two ocean navy law in 1940 opened up a plethora of ship building.
> 
> We were not going in with a half empty gun or ship, that supply line was not going to be short, that is what the Industrial Production Board was all about.
> 
> We, in the Argentine conflict mid air refueled the Vulcan bombers both ways, refueled warships in mid Atlantic, provided SATINTEL on Argentine movements.
> 
> Yeah, you did a great job kicking their asses, and I was rooting for your side. You would have suffered more losses without our help, which by the by was covert.
> 
> I worked with guys from SAS and SBS who operated there, top grade fighters.
> 
> I would never call the Brit military wimps, they never have been, leaders that is another thing, just because your some royal, does not make you a leader.
> 
> The guys on the line suffered badly from poor/incompetent leadership over centuries, Flanders and Gallipoli ring a bell?
> 
> I am wondering, are they going to start carrying prayer rugs replacing tea time with prayers to allahole?
> 
> I wonder how long it will be before Bow Bells are shut up because they insult the muzslime bastards?


You are preaching to the converted about Muslims. I live in New Zealand now. I could not stand to live in the UK now. Muslims have more rights than us Brits.
It absolutely disgusts me how the UK is going to shit. 
Being ex army I have to agree about our officers being bad. I would follow my corporals into battle rather than my captain. They are not the best that's for sure.


----------



## Smitty901

Jackangus said:


> You are preaching to the converted about Muslims. I live in New Zealand now. I could not stand to live in the UK now. Muslims have more rights than us Brits.
> It absolutely disgusts me how the UK is going to shit.
> Being ex army I have to agree about our officers being bad. I would follow my corporals into battle rather than my captain. They are not the best that's for sure.


 I had the honor of serving side by side with British troops. I trusted them .


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> You are preaching to the converted about Muslims. I live in New Zealand now. I could not stand to live in the UK now. Muslims have more rights than us Brits.
> It absolutely disgusts me how the UK is going to shit.
> Being ex army I have to agree about our officers being bad. I would follow my corporals into battle rather than my captain. They are not the best that's for sure.


I find the situation to be very sad. The home of common law, going the way of sharia.


----------



## A Watchman

That damn Jack Angus just might pull off a come back here huh?


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> I find the situation to be very sad. The home of common law, going the way of sharia.


Trump has it right in a lot of ways. We need someone like that, instead of the usual stick up the ass political correct Muppet.


----------



## Jackangus

A Watchman said:


> That damn Jack Angus just might pull off a come back here huh?


The only thing i'm pulling off is myself. But joking aside I would be grateful for a little mercy after my slightly over the top rant. My butt is still red and kicked.
I completely deserved it though.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Trump has it right in a lot of ways. We need someone like that, instead of the usual stick up the ass political correct Muppet.


Nigel Farage seems to be the British Trump. He's said some great things, taken great stands, does it with grand humor and seems to be unafraid of contest.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

Jackangus said:


> You are preaching to the converted about Muslims. I live in New Zealand now. I could not stand to live in the UK now. Muslims have more rights than us Brits.
> It absolutely disgusts me how the UK is going to shit.
> Being ex army I have to agree about our officers being bad. I would follow my corporals into battle rather than my captain. They are not the best that's for sure.


Brexit is the first step to making things right.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Nigel Farage seems to be the British Trump. He's said some great things, taken great stands, does it with grand humor and seems to be unafraid of contest.


Britain is in so much trouble. We have towns that are almost completely Muslim. They have their own signs in Arabic, and even cops are not keen on going in. They rule with their own Sharia law.
It makes me sick these scum talk about honor when they will happily kill their own Daughter for some jealousy they have over dating a white man or even less.
Islam is a barbaric religion. If they had there way we would all be executed.


----------



## Slippy

You be awright @Jackangus.

Slippy got no problemo with you. A little bump and run with some of the folks now and then is OK.

Be well,

Slip



Jackangus said:


> The only thing i'm pulling off is myself. But joking aside I would be grateful for a little mercy after my slightly over the top rant. My butt is still red and kicked.
> I completely deserved it though.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> Britain is in so much trouble. We have towns that are almost completely Muslim. They have their own signs in Arabic, and even cops are not keen on going in. They rule with their own Sharia law.
> It makes me sick these scum talk about honor when they will happily kill their own Daughter for some jealousy they have over dating a white man or even less.
> Islam is a barbaric religion. If they had there way we would all be executed.


Our last two administrations have been importing Islam. Saudi Arabia has been peppering our cities with mosques. There is an attempt to do the same thing to us. In some places in the states, they are gaining ground, but those areas are locally controlled by the democrats, and gun control makes it difficult for the law-abiding people to own weapons. Like you left GB to get away from insanity, I have no idea why the good people remain in the democrat-controlled cities so that their women can be raped by those creatures.
It'll be more difficult for the creatures to behave in such manner in south Alabama. A good deal of us are former military, own and carry weapons and are more than willing to not only protect our women but also our way of life.

There's only one reason to disarm the people of a nation, and it is not for their own safety. Europeans have been disarmed, yet the invaders managed to bring in weapons. Dark day for the Europeans, thanks to their sick, twisted leaders such as Merkel.


----------



## A Watchman

Slippy said:


> You be awright
> @*Jackangus*
> .
> 
> Slippy got no problemo with you. A little bump and run with some of the folks now and then is OK.
> 
> Be well,
> 
> Slip


One more time for some of you rookies .... "If ya aint rubbing it aint racing".


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Our last two administrations have been importing Islam. Saudi Arabia has been peppering our cities with mosques. There is an attempt to do the same thing to us. In some places in the states, they are gaining ground, but those areas are locally controlled by the democrats, and gun control makes it difficult for the law-abiding people to own weapons. Like you left GB to get away from insanity, I have no idea why the good people remain in the democrat-controlled cities so that their women can be raped by those creatures.
> It'll be more difficult for the creatures to behave in such manner in south Alabama. A good deal of us are former military, own and carry weapons and are more than willing to not only protect our women but also our way of life.
> 
> There's only one reason to disarm the people of a nation, and it is not for their own safety. Europeans have been disarmed, yet the invaders managed to bring in weapons. Dark day for the Europeans, thanks to their sick, twisted leaders such as Merkel.


I like you Denton. If I had any idea you thought like me I would never have been such a douche bag. 
I wasn't sure what you could say on this forum about the religion everyone is scared to mention. Clearly it's fine to speak your mind.

The douche baggery meter is dialed down to 1, but i'm not turning the pilot light out. Gotta keep some balls about me.


----------



## Denton

Jackangus said:


> I like you Denton. If I had any idea you thought like me I would never have been such a douche bag.
> I wasn't sure what you could say on this forum about the religion everyone is scared to mention. Clearly it's fine to speak your mind.
> 
> The douche baggery meter is dialed down to 1, but i'm not turning the pilot light out. Gotta keep some balls.


Figured you were worth the headache. Figure I was right.

The ideology to which you refer as a religion doesn't get much respect, around here. We recognize it for what it is and will not submit. Personally, I pray for the individual Muslim's salvation, and will even share the Gospel with a Muslim if he is so inclined to listen. If pushed to kill, however, I will afterward run a patch through the bore of the rifle and sleep well, that night.


----------



## Jackangus

Denton said:


> Figured you were worth the headache. Figure I was right.
> 
> The ideology to which you refer as a religion doesn't get much respect, around here. We recognize it for what it is and will not submit. Personally, I pray for the individual Muslim's salvation, and will even share the Gospel with a Muslim if he is so inclined to listen. If pushed to kill, however, I will afterward run a patch through the bore of the rifle and sleep well, that night.


I reckon they are brainwashed idiots. They still live in the medieval days where we were all pretty barbaric. They get force fed that shit from when they so young, what else would you believe if that's all you have ever known.
Pisses me off that there are still heaps of people including non Muslims that say Islam is the most peaceful religion around. Do these people watch the news. Muslims will be the end of this world.


----------



## inceptor

Jackangus said:


> I reckon they are brainwashed idiots. They still live in the medieval days where we were all pretty barbaric. They get force fed that shit from when they so young, what else would you believe if that's all you have ever known.
> Pisses me off that there are still heaps of people including non Muslims that say Islam is the most peaceful religion around. Do these people watch the news. *Muslims will be the end of this world.*


I believe that is true. I don't know what, if any, your religious beliefs are but I think the anti-christ will be from the middle east.


----------



## A Watchman

inceptor said:


> I believe that is true. I don't know what, if any, your religious beliefs are but I think the anti-christ will be from the middle east.


Yep. Agreed.


----------



## Jackangus

inceptor said:


> I believe that is true. I don't know what, if any, your religious beliefs are but I think the anti-christ will be from the middle east.


Filthy Muslimes.


----------



## A Watchman

Jackangus said:


> Filthy Muslimes.


Now their ya go again..... Denton will edit and substitute a real nice word for the Muslimes. Likely not your intent. Try to keep a line in the sand with the cussin', maybe end it at SOB? Or just utilize the English language with all its offerings?


----------



## Jackangus

A Watchman said:


> Now their ya go again..... Denton will edit and substitute a real nice word for the Muslimes. Likely not your intent. Try to keep a line in the sand with the cussin', maybe end it at SOB? Or just utilize the English language with all its offerings?


Getting carried away, sorry. 
Just out of curiosity, do you get Muslims on here? Surely if you did they would go crazy about what some people say.


----------



## Smitty901

Jackangus said:


> I like you Denton. If I had any idea you thought like me I would never have been such a douche bag.
> I wasn't sure what you could say on this forum about the religion everyone is scared to mention. Clearly it's fine to speak your mind.
> 
> The douche baggery meter is dialed down to 1, but i'm not turning the pilot light out. Gotta keep some balls about me.


 There are some of us that have spent time in the middle east. We have come by the views we hold from personal experience. For some here that experience goes back a bit farther than just current events since 9/11. You will not find me at any Muslim fellowship rally. 
We are given a lot of room here. We must always keep our comments and calls to justice with in the law. And of course related to events we may see a need to be prepared for.
Where the heck is Mish, she is suppose to be our antagonist ?


----------



## inceptor

Jackangus said:


> Getting carried away, sorry.
> Just out of curiosity, do you get Muslims on here? Surely if you did they would go crazy about what some people say.


What fun we could have if one or more showed up! Most of us would end up with a Fatwa.


----------



## A Watchman

Jackangus said:


> Getting carried away, sorry.
> Just out of curiosity, do you get Muslims on here? Surely if you did they would go crazy about what some people say.


Can you send us a few to toy with?


----------



## SOCOM42

Jackangus said:


> Getting carried away, sorry.
> Just out of curiosity, do you get Muslims on here? Surely if you did they would go crazy about what some people say.


Who cares? they can all go _____k themselves.

It is the left winged bastards that pander to them.

I have had no use for them for 50+ years.

Sure, sure, there are some nice ones, but all it takes is a fanatical core of muzslime bastards to lead the rest.

Just like Hitler with the SA and the SS, core fanatics that brought death and destruction to millions leading their sheeple.

What the western world needs is a pogrom to deal with the muzslime bastards, they start pushing here in Dixie and it will start.

It is disgusting what a cancer has grown out of Memphis due to their infestation.

Personally, I am happy that I directly contributed to the demise of hundreds if not thousands of those muzslime bastards.

If they come on here and don't like what is said, they can shove their prayer rug up their ass then swallow a grenade.

You will notice that I have a different spelling for muzslime's and always, bastard follows,

that is the defining word to those who are sheltered sheep.


----------



## Jackangus

A Watchman said:


> Can you send us a few to toy with?


Don't you hate it when you see a ginger muslim?
I have ginger hair and it rocks me to the core.


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

Jackangus said:


> Getting carried away, sorry.
> Just out of curiosity, do you get Muslims on here? Surely if you did they would go crazy about what some people say.


We get a few apologists every once in a while, I am sure there are liberal lurkers who report back to DU or Barfcom to talk about us crazy loonies over here

Like Top (Smitty) mentioned, there are quite a bit of veterans here, as well as like minded civs...Im sure I am not the only New Yorker here either who had witnessed the towers get hitting firsthand

We cant call for a Crusade here but we can def speak out minds, a lot of people who call it "the religion of peace" are a bunch of pandering, politically correct drones who know not of what they speak

When they have to pull bodies of women and kids out of the rubble of a mosque, drag decapitated bodies out of wadis or get their ass blown out of the top of their GMV I dont think theyll EVER understand

Islam hasnt really changed its optempo from the early 400s, and when you are destitute, living in a 3rd world cesspool and indoctrinated about your faith in its rawest form and then that enemy is made to be America/the West it isnt a suprise they act the way the do.

No one seems to want to play ball...we let these savages come here, rape our women, steal our land, pillage our works and kill our men and children and give em slaps on the wrist and welcome them with open arms? The Britons didnt spread their cheeks for the Vikings, the Indians didnt give us a prize cow when the colonists arrived...theyre invaders plain and simple

Hell, bastards set up Little Mogadishu here in West Columbus...gonna have to convert to Islam or Fundamental Mormonism myself and get me some more wives to act as trigger pullers here before long lmao

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

Jackangus said:


> Don't you hate it when you see a ginger muslim?
> I have ginger hair and it rocks me to the core.


Checens...

Damn good figthers, probably the best next to central africans that AQ and ISIS employs

The cartels in SA employ em too that should tell you something

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


----------



## Sonya

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> We get a few apologists every once in a while, I am sure there are liberal lurkers who report back to DU or Barfcom to talk about us crazy loonies over here
> 
> Like Top (Smitty) mentioned, there are quite a bit of veterans here, as well as like minded civs...Im sure I am not the only New Yorker here either who had witnessed the towers get hitting firsthand


I am no apologist, I just call it like I see it. Pure Quranic Islam is the only religion I have ever considered practicing. Most all of the BS is cultural and came after the fact in the form of the Hadiths (anecdotes about Mohammed's life written after he was dead).

Seeing as how I am pretty much a hedonist I looked into the actual restrictions put forth in the Quran and there really aren't any that would have crimped my lifestyle. There is no prohibition on alcohol, or keeping dogs as pets, no specific dress code other than general modest attire based on cultural norms, heck it even allows for casual sex in the form of "temporary marriage". It also has a very inclusive view of the animal kingdom and their relationship with God, which is something Christianity lacks completely.

In addition the Quran dictated an extremely radical pro-feminist view on women, marriage, and money. The western world wouldn't come even close to the equal monetary rights dictated in the Quran for another 1400 years. Women were guaranteed a specific percentage of inheritance, in addition men/husbands could not touch one penny of a woman's personal property. The concept of selling off women, or marrying women in order to claim their personal property was done away with in the Muslim world. Dowries went directly into the brides personal accounts. Compare that to Western laws up until a hundred years ago or so.

If anyone doubts what I am saying regarding Sharia law and marriage/property rights please just google it. I don't feel like taking the time to cut/paste a bunch of sources for folks that really don't want to read it or appreciate the time it takes to present it here.

A woman convert to Islam once said to me "Islam is perfect, unfortunately the followers are not".

This video is an amusing glance into an Iranian divorce court where couples battle it out in what is often a very dramatic fashion. In most cases the husbands don't want to agree to a divorce unless the wife agrees to give up some or all of her dowry (big money that the husband will have to fork over).

Much of it is really funny especially the case at the 14:30 mark, the wife accuses the husband of being impotent and sues for divorce.


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## Denton

I'm not going to play tit for tat with copy/pastes, either. I can tell you after studying the Qur'an as well as the hadiths, there is nothing worthy in that system of oppression. Speaking with pious Muslims solidify my position. Islamic history, before Muhammad's death as well as after, makes it clear what it is.

Romanticize all you want. True Islam is, once again, marching.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor

@Sonya basing your assessment on something you admit has been waylaid 1 and a half millenia ago is a little asinine.

Dont presume to think youre the only one who has studied the Qur'an and/or the Hadiths, which regardless of the fact they were written after Mohammed died, they were written by his sucessors and close companions and embodied the precepts from the Qur'an as well as cultural/historically important factors

You read it as a 'hedonist' and got what you wanted out of it, a mini false consensus bias...I read it hoping to make sense of nearly a decade of horror I witnessed and to gain jnsight on the mind of my opposition, and I am not sure where you got those romanticized ideas of feminism and equality from

Saying that Islam is a great faith and downing Western culture is a bit suspicious...and based on the fact that romanticized ideas havent been around since the 400s/500s...that is like buying a set of platemail and citing it is good because it was good a thousand years ago

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## Sonya

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> You read it as a 'hedonist' and got what you wanted out of it, a mini false consensus bias...*I read it hoping to make sense of nearly a decade of horror I witnessed* and to gain jnsight on the mind of my opposition


Perhaps I was biased when I got what I wanted out of it, but then again you read it to understand the "horrors" that you witnessed, which means you had plenty of bias too.

Looking at it as a purely religions doctrine the Hadiths absolutely can (and some say should) be taken out of the equation. They are based on culture and not on the Quran, which states it is the "final word". Not the "final word with addendums in the forum of the Hadith's to be published soon". The Quran also clearly states what is not forbidden is allowed, yet the Hadiths go on to "forbid" a whole lot of stuff that the Quran did not!


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## Denton

Sonya said:


> Perhaps I was biased when I got what I wanted out of it, but then again you read it to understand the "horrors" that you witnessed, which means you had plenty of bias too.
> 
> However from the position of being a purely religions doctrin the Hadiths absolutely can (and some say should) be taken out of the equation. They are based on culture and not on the Quran, which states it is the "final word". Not the "final word with addendums in the forum of the Hadith's to be published soon". The Quran also clearly states what is not forbidden is allowed, yet the Hadiths go on to "forbid" a whole lot of stuff that the Quran did not!


The horrors, those which started in Muhammad's days and continues to this day, are based in the Qur'an. The hadiths merely give witness of how Muhammad conducted himself based on his creation.


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## inceptor

Sonya said:


> Perhaps I was biased when I got what I wanted out of it, but then again you read it to understand the "horrors" that you witnessed, which means you had plenty of bias too.


So pure Islam is good. They said that too about communism. That worked well for the Soviets, Cuba and Hugo Chavez, didn't it?

Venezuela is still in the pits and there's no recovery in sight for the near future.


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## Inor

Slippy must be taking a few weeks off from spreading the truth so I will do it...

islam is NOT a religion. There is a sick, twisted quasi-religion associated with it, but islam is not a religion only. islam is no less than a complete and total political, social, economic and quasi-religious system of sanctioned subjugation and murder. After nearly 1300 years of steeping in this stew of evil, muslims are barely recognizable as human anymore. They send their own kids to blow themselves up for crying out loud!

I have read the koran (or qur'an or jacuzzi or however the hell you spell it) and the hadiths. Their description of the end times are almost identical to the descriptions in Daniel and Revelations, except it is coming from the exact opposite perspective. So I ain't too interested in swapping spit with those pricks.

muslims are either terrorists themselves or they are financing the terrorists. That is all.


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## Jackangus

Inor said:


> Slippy must be taking a few weeks off from spreading the truth so I will do it...
> 
> islam is NOT a religion. There is a sick, twisted quasi-religion associated with it, but islam is not a religion only. islam is no less than a complete and total political, social, economic and quasi-religious system of sanctioned subjugation and murder. After nearly 1300 years of steeping in this stew of evil, muslims are barely recognizable as human anymore. They send their own kids to blow themselves up for crying out loud!
> 
> I have read the koran (or qur'an or jacuzzi or however the hell you spell it) and the hadiths. Their description of the end times are almost identical to the descriptions in Daniel and Revelations, except it is coming from the exact opposite perspective. So I ain't too interested in swapping spit with those pricks.
> 
> muslims are either terrorists themselves or they are financing the terrorists. That is all.


I like the cut of your gib Sir.


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## A Watchman

As I have warned repeatedly here:

Islam is not a religion. It is an ideology rooted in an objective to conquer all others by murder. All true Muslims have a role, murder, finance, or support. You cannot romanticize it and sit on the sidelines for long. Its intent is to devour all infidels. That is you, unless you support the agenda.

The practice of Islam is indeed foretold and forewarned in our Bible. It is the work of the Enemy as we march towards the true Revelation.


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## A Watchman




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## Sonya

A Watchman said:


> Islam is not a religion. It is an ideology rooted in an objective to conquer all others by murder. All true Muslims have a role, murder, finance, or support. You cannot romanticize it and sit on the sidelines for long. Its intent is to devour all infidels. That is you, unless you support the agenda.


In all fairness for the last 1300 years or so they were staying in the middle east and keeping the conflicts amongst themselves. They have every right live as they like and do as they please _*in their own homelands*_.

They were neither a problem nor a threat to the West until the West started messing with them again and again in the last century. They weren't spreading Islam with the sword, they were minding their own business and keeping their disagreements amongst themselves.

Overthrowing most all of their governments/dictators has consequences, just like kicking a hornets nest. The west went out of their way to kick that hornets nest and now we are somehow claiming to be the victims when there are hornets flying all over and attacking everything they see? Seriously?

We are not the "innocent victims" in this mess. Like a bunch of idiots that kick the nest and then say "Why did the hornets attack the baby? The baby didn't do anything, he was just sitting there! Those things are evil!". No, they aren't evil, they are freaking hornets! Their behavior is predictable!


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor

Sonya said:


> In all fairness for the last 1300 years or so they were staying in the middle east and keeping the conflicts amongst themselves. They have every right live as they like and do as they please _*in their own homelands*_.
> 
> They were neither a problem nor a threat to the West until the West started messing with them again and again in the last century.
> 
> Overthrowing most all of their governments/dictators has consequences, just like kicking a hornets nest. The west went out of their way to kick that hornets nest and now we are somehow claiming to be the victims when there are hornets flying all over and attacking everything they see? Seriously? And we claim the hornets are evil?
> 
> We are not the "innocent victims" in this mess and those that pretend we are must be delusional.


One of the first things Islam did was attack the "west" - they put every non Muslim to the sword and pushed way into the caucauses. Byzantine, Roman, Arab Christians, and Jews were all killed indiscriminately.

Moors held Spain (then Iberia) for nearly 800 years, it took the Spaniards until the early 1600s to fight them back out of the country, did the Visigoths and Iberians provoke them too?

After the moors hit Iberia the Umayyad Caliphate also took Gaul and Transaxonia, modern day France and Luxemborg and parts of Germany - those damn barbarian hedonists and animists sure deserved that!

Then the Muslims also occupied India various times starting in the late 700s under the Umayyad Caliphate and lasted until the late 1400s before the British came there...through the various conflicts millions were put the sword and raped in the name of Islam - the deadliest were the Dehli Sultanate and the Turco-Mongol invasion under Timur who killed and raped 4.5M Hindus in the northern part of the Indus before his campaigns even began fully

And do you not remember the Ottoman Empire/Caliphate?! 600 years of additional conquest and invasion that didnt end until 1922...

You have drank the peaceful religion koolaid it seems

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## RedLion

ROE will be up to the individual person and/or group. With that said, I do believe that people will likely tend to "shoot first and ask questions later."


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## Sonya

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> And do you not remember the Ottoman Empire/Caliphate?! 600 years of additional conquest and invasion that didnt end until 1922...
> 
> You have drank the peaceful religion koolaid it seems


That was during the age of conquest and colonialization. EVERYONE that could was building empires or colonizing! The Romans did it, the Persians, Ghengis Khan, the Ottomans, the Brits, Dutch, French, Spanish etc... Please don't even suggest that the Moors or Muslims in general were the only "offenders". The Western powers were the main players engaging in that activity for the last 400 years. I am not judging, just stating fact. Might is right.

We can't claim to have been persecuted by Islam for the last 1000 years. They have left us alone while we continually messed with their countries in order to control their land/resources over the last century, long after the concept of "colonies" was abandoned.

Short video showing the history of conquest and empires over the last 3 thousand years:


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## NobleSKS

Not bible thumping here. Just thought it was interesting in my reading of Judges 18 yesterday about the Danites over taking land from the Sidonians. "living carefree, peaceful and secure, land was very fertile. And they lived a great distance away from Sidon and had no allies nearby " They lost their land (Sidonians); just reminds me of importance of community. Seems as if original post here, the hypothetical scenario, dude was alone to defend his prep. So just a thought. 


James 1:22


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## Sonya

NobleSKS said:


> Not bible thumping here. Just thought it was interesting in my reading of Judges 18 yesterday about the Danites over taking land from the Sidonians. "living carefree, peaceful and secure, land was very fertile. And they lived a great distance away from Sidon and had no allies nearby " *They lost their land (Sidonians); just reminds me of importance of community. *Seems as if original post here, the hypothetical scenario, dude was alone to defend his prep. So just a thought.


The one thing people seem to forget when discussing TEOTWAWKI is that long term the survivors will NOT be left to create their own little communities and thiefdoms (unless of course the whole world was devastated at the same time).

Initially it will be chaos and anarchy. Basic pillaging and looting for the first few months. But shortly after the Empire Builders *will* show up.

Maybe 6 months later, or a year later, but they will come. Most likely the Chinese would be the first to arrive to "offer aid" and start laying the groundwork for a takeover. Course if most of the population was already dead they wouldn't have much interest in controlling the piddly personal resources of the remaining survivors, they would be want to bring in their own people create new communities, industry, and harvest the natural resources. Heck they would probably give the survivors some rice in exchange for not being shot at.


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## RedLion

Sonya said:


> The one thing people seem to forget when discussing TEOTWAWKI is that long term the survivors will NOT be left to create their own little communities and thiefdoms (unless of course the whole world was devastated at the same time).
> 
> Initially it will be chaos and anarchy. Basic pillaging and looting for the first few months. But shortly after the Empire Builders *will* show up.
> 
> Maybe 6 months later, or a year later, but they will come. Most likely the Chinese would be the first to arrive to "offer aid" and start laying the groundwork for a takeover. Course if most of the population was already dead they wouldn't have much interest in controlling the piddly personal resources of the remaining survivors, they would be want to bring in their own people create new communities, industry, and harvest the natural resources.


Absolutely. A theme very common in survivalist novels like "The Patriots" and Max Velocity books.


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## Sonya

RedLion said:


> Absolutely. A theme very common in survivalist novels like "The Patriots" and Max Velocity books.


I haven't read those books.

But in reality, if most of the US population has died then fighting to preserve a lost culture and system of government is pointless.

Best case scenario is that the "invaders" bring stability with them, and the conquered/conquerors get along well enough to create a new blended culture and system of government that respects the traditions of the indigenous population, much like the successful empires of the past (the Romans, Persians, etc...).


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## RedLion

Sonya said:


> I haven't read those books.
> 
> But in reality, if most of the US population has died then fighting to preserve a lost culture and system of government is pointless.
> 
> Best case scenario is that the "invaders" bring stability with them, and the conquered/conquerors get along well enough to create a new blended culture and system of government that respects the traditions of the indigenous population, much like the successful empires of the past (the Romans, Persians, etc...).


I do not think that you can call yourself a prepper is you have not read "Patriots" and the other off-shoot books by James Wesley Rawls including "Founders" and "Survivors." :tango_face_wink:


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## Sonya

RedLion said:


> I do not think that you can call yourself a prepper is you have not read "Patriots" and the other off-shoot books by James Wesley Rawls including "Founders" and "Survivors." :tango_face_wink:


LOL...after reading a synopsis I think I will pass. I prefer true crime or at least colorful twisted dark fiction. No morality plays for me.

I haven't even read One Second After because I suspect it is very one dimensional character wise. I have heard the Zombie Survival Guide is good though.



> The main characters of the book never get past being two-dimensional. There are no grey area characters. Either they are good, or bad. They are either a Harley Riding Biker that kills men, rapes women, smokes pot, drinks alcohol, sexually molests little boys, and tortures children, or they are a "God Fearing" "Good Christian" who prays every night after dinner, if not every few minutes and does not have premarital sex or use profanity. Jews are apparently ok though - whew!
> 
> Bikers, Cannibals, and Fornicators! Oh my! - In The Rabbit Hole


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## Denton

Sonya said:


> In all fairness for the last 1300 years or so they were staying in the middle east and keeping the conflicts amongst themselves. They have every right live as they like and do as they please _*in their own homelands*_.
> 
> They were neither a problem nor a threat to the West until the West started messing with them again and again in the last century. They weren't spreading Islam with the sword, they were minding their own business and keeping their disagreements amongst themselves.
> 
> Overthrowing most all of their governments/dictators has consequences, just like kicking a hornets nest. The west went out of their way to kick that hornets nest and now we are somehow claiming to be the victims when there are hornets flying all over and attacking everything they see? Seriously?
> 
> We are not the "innocent victims" in this mess. Like a bunch of idiots that kick the nest and then say "Why did the hornets attack the baby? The baby didn't do anything, he was just sitting there! Those things are evil!". No, they aren't evil, they are freaking hornets! Their behavior is predictable!


Staying in the Middle East, until they had either converted, enslaved or slaughtered the non-Muslims. They then turned toward Europe.

Their homeland? You are discounting countless Christian and Jewish communities that were destroyed by Muhammad and his thugs. You are forgetting that the caliphate was finally dismantled after centuries of conflict.

You think the latest Great Jihad is due to our meddling. I am not disagreeing with your position that our influence in many countries was a very bad idea, that isn't what allowed for the Third Great Jihad; wealth is what fueled it. Their complaints are merely expedient. Oil is what is fueling this Great Jihad.

Who is the primary benefactor of the most recent jihad? The clan that has benefited most by a relationship with the West - the House of Saud. They accumulated great wealth, much of which has been spent on their lavish lifestyle, but much has been spent funding madrassas to teach Islam and organize the adherents. As a matter of fact, through the Clinton emails, we have learned that the pious, Muslim nations Saudi Arabia and Qatar have been funding ISIS.

Islam wasn't set back to marching because of our meddling, it was set back to marching because of funding. It stopped only because after its last defeat, the rest of the word around it grew wealthier and stronger.


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## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> In all fairness for the last 1300 years or so they were staying in the middle east and keeping the conflicts amongst themselves. They have every right live as they like and do as they please _*in their own homelands*_.
> 
> They were neither a problem nor a threat to the West until the West started messing with them again and again in the last century. They weren't spreading Islam with the sword, they were minding their own business and keeping their disagreements amongst themselves.
> 
> Overthrowing most all of their governments/dictators has consequences, just like kicking a hornets nest. The west went out of their way to kick that hornets nest and now we are somehow claiming to be the victims when there are hornets flying all over and attacking everything they see? Seriously?
> 
> We are not the "innocent victims" in this mess. Like a bunch of idiots that kick the nest and then say "Why did the hornets attack the baby? The baby didn't do anything, he was just sitting there! Those things are evil!". No, they aren't evil, they are freaking hornets! Their behavior is predictable!


Sonya you seem very taken with this sham religion, but you might want to get all your facts right before writing, there are obviously some people who really know there stuff. You have also said "They have every right live as they like and do as they please in their own homelands". I completely disagree.
So you think it is right they can murder, rape, and torture their own people in the name of Islam. And the rest of the world should just stand back because it's their country, let them do what they please, I don't think so.

What they do to their own people is absolutely disgusting, and it is up to the rest of the world to get involved and help. It really annoys me people who say If you are not Islamic you will never understand the religion. Stoning a woman to death for looking at another man is wrong, I don't need to be a Muslim to understand that, This is not subjective. Lots more ludicrous barbaric things they do as well, but you get the picture. 
Woman get treated slightly better than dogs in that religion. I don't know where you get this romantic idea from, but you are wrong.
Islam has one real agenda, take over the world, kill every non believer. Islam the most peaceful religion on the planet, WHAT A JOKE. 
Probably not a good idea to give us a history lesson you are clearly getting wrong.


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## ReignMan

I think (or hope perhaps) that most people are fundamentally good people who are social and just want to get along. And frankly I've found in life that those that are truly piece of shit wastes of human being are usually pretty easy to spot; they are just a bit off and give you bad feelings just being around them. Those people will require a bullet to the head swiftly and without mercy. The rest will be decent human beings just trying to get by and deserve to be treated as such. Everyone needs friends and allies. Those that understand this fundamental truth survive together ... those that do not die alone. Such is the human condition.


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## Jackangus

Looks like they have struck again. This time in Berlin Germany. At least 9 dead, 50 injured. 
Ploughing a truck in innocent Christmas shoppers. What is wrong with these scumbags. Cowards the lot of them.
They just don't care if it's kids, women. Pure evil. But of course they will say it's not Islams fault, it's just a small minority. Well the majority of Islam are irrelevant because they do nothing, they say nothing. 
If they thought these atrocities were so wrong, do something about it, at least tell someone. Deep down the majority believe the same as the minority, that is why they say and do nothing. Cowards the lot of them.


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## Prepared One

Denton said:


> Figured you were worth the headache. Figure I was right.
> 
> The ideology to which you refer as a religion doesn't get much respect, around here. We recognize it for what it is and will not submit. Personally, I pray for the individual Muslim's salvation, and will even share the Gospel with a Muslim if he is so inclined to listen. If pushed to kill, however, I will afterward run a patch through the bore of the rifle and sleep well, that night.


I don't know that I would care to share anything with a Muslim except a bullet and a shinny new Slippy Pike. Those that aren't killing and raping are supported by those who do not speak out. When they have the numbers the dynamics will change quickly.


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## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> So you think it is right they can murder, rape, and torture their own people in the name of Islam. And the rest of the world should just stand back because it's their country, let them do what they please, I don't think so.


Yeah, their homeland, their culture, their rules. I do not believe in policing the world. I also don't care if they want to mutilate females in Africa, though for the sake of the wildlife we need to stop sending food and vaccines to encourage the overpopulation that is decimating the continent like a plague of locusts.

We don't want them telling us how to live, yet you think we have the right to run around spreading "democracy" and telling THEM how to live? And then invade their countries and kill a few million of their people when we disagree with how they run things? The arrogance is astounding.


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## A Watchman

Prepared One said:


> Those that aren't killing and *rapping* are supported by those who do not speak out.


If there is one thing that royally pisses me off ... its a Muslim Rapper! :vs_mad:


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## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> Yeah, their homeland, their culture, their rules. I do not believe in policing the world. I also don't care if they want to mutilate females in Africa


I have to say, there isn't many females who think like you Sonya, or males for that matter. You are one in a million.
These are innocent people you are talking about, kids and woman who have done nothing wrong.


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## inceptor

Sonya said:


> Yeah, their homeland, their culture, their rules. I do not believe in policing the world. I also don't care if they want to mutilate females in Africa, though for the sake of the wildlife we need to stop sending food and vaccines to encourage the overpopulation that is decimating the continent like a plague of locusts.
> 
> We don't want them telling us how to live, yet you think we have the right to run around spreading "democracy" and telling THEM how to live? And then invade their countries and kill a few million of their people when we disagree with how they run things? The arrogance is astounding.


You are correct, they should be left alone. We have no right to tell them anything they do is wrong.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.co...oy-swimming-pool-because-of-sexual-emergency/

Cologne: Reports of New Year's assaults spark firestorm - CNN.com

Saudi Court Sentences Gang Rape Victim to 200 Lashes And Custodial Sentence - Breitbart

One Million Child Victims of Muslim Rape Gangs in the U.K.? | Frontpage Mag


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## 8301

In a long term SHTF situation my narrow road will be partially blocked where it comes off the larger road with a serious no trespassing sign so that only people who belong on this road travel on this road and people who don't belong on the road have been warned. There will be many "no trespassing signs" around the property. If someone shows up, neighbor or stranger there will be a bell at the end of the driveway and by banging on it announce that they want something. They will be safe as long as they stay off the property unless they are invited.

If an uninvited person is on the property after all of those warnings I can only assume that they are there to steal something.

If I lived in a more densely populated area I'm not sure how I would handle things if someone was on the property and may be trying to take something my family needed. In a urban environment your neighbor may take a few steps on your property to grab something he dropped ect and you have a much smaller empty zone around your building.

But since I'm in a rural area there are additional security items that will be put out around the property and up the road to inform us if someone in in the area further expanding our security warning zone.

I'm no Rambo. I really don't want to seriously hurt someone but... if they still insist on coming on the property uninvited after all the above we will protect what is ours.


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## Medic33

rules of engagement post SHTF? what freaking rules? there are none! - this isn't call of duty, dude.
about the only one I can think of you see heads on pikes turn around a go back the way you came.


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## inceptor

Medic33 said:


> rules of engagement post SHTF? what freaking rules? there are none! - this isn't call of duty, dude.


And there are no re-do's.


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## hag

Sonya said:


> Yeah, their homeland, their culture, their rules. I do not believe in policing the world. I also don't care if they want to mutilate females in Africa, though for the sake of the wildlife we need to stop sending food and vaccines to encourage the overpopulation that is decimating the continent like a plague of locusts.
> 
> We don't want them telling us how to live, yet you think we have the right to run around spreading "democracy" and telling THEM how to live? And then invade their countries and kill a few million of their people when we disagree with how they run things? The arrogance is astounding.


So if you knew there was a little girl down the street that every time she went home, her mom's new boyfriend would rape and sodomize her,would you step in and help or call the cops? Or would you just say "their house, their rules?"
I bet you would say something if the neighbors dog was mistreated!
I personally would trade the life of every animal in Africa to save the life of one innocent child.

You are one sorry individual


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## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> Yeah, their homeland, their culture, their rules. I do not believe in policing the world. I also don't care if they want to mutilate females in Africa, though for the sake of the wildlife we need to stop sending food and vaccines to encourage the overpopulation that is decimating the continent like a plague of locusts.
> 
> We don't want them telling us how to live, yet you think we have the right to run around spreading "democracy" and telling THEM how to live? And then invade their countries and kill a few million of their people when we disagree with how they run things? The arrogance is astounding.


You sound a bit like one of those crazy Muslim terrorists. You make human life sound so cheap.
You seem to Romanticize Islam so much, why don't you go join them over in the desert? see how they treat you.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor

Well we got a liberal AND an ISIS sympathizer on the forum?

Shit man I havent had any coffee yet I cant deal

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## Prepared One

A Watchman said:


> If there is one thing that royally pisses me off ... its a Muslim Rapper! :vs_mad:


Yea! me to! And apparently, they also rape as well. But their rapping, as I said, is awful. :laugh:


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## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> I have to say, there isn't many females who think like you Sonya, or males for that matter. You are one in a million.
> These are innocent people you are talking about, kids and woman who have done nothing wrong.*You have some serious hate in your heart.*


LOL...so saying you hate f---ing muslimes isn't hate! Wanting to invade their homelands, and in the process kill a million or so of mostly women and children because you disagree with their governmental policies, isn't hate!

But when I am pragmatic and say they have the right to live by their own cultural standards and be left alone in their own homelands that is _ultra-hateful._

The fact you actually believe that shows how twisted your thought processes are. You are no different than the "muslimes" you despise. They (some, certainly not all of 'em) want to invade your culture and destroy your way of life, and you advocate doing the exact same thing to them!


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## inceptor

Sonya said:


> LOL...so saying you hates f---ing muslimes isn't hate! Wanting to go kill a million or so because you disagree with their governmental policies isn't hate!
> 
> But when I am pragmatic and say they have the right to live by their own cultural standards and be left alone in their own homelands that is _ultra-hateful._
> 
> The fact you actually believe that shows how twisted your thought processes are. You are no different than the "muslimes" you despise. They (some, certainly not all of 'em) want to invade your culture and destroy your way of life, and you advocate doing the exact same thing to them!


Well it seems the courts agree with you. The judge in the case where the 10yr old boy was raped declared it was a sexual emergency and let the guy go free.

Most to the rapes in Europe haven't even been investigated.

So at least in Europe, they understand cultural differences.


----------



## Sonya

inceptor said:


> Well it seems the courts agree with you. The judge in the case where the 10yr old boy was raped declared it was a sexual emergency and let the guy go free.


In all fairness, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and probably quite a few other Muslim countries would have executed the guy for that.

I believe the guy was Syrian, not sure if Syria would have executed him (since they do not practice Sharia law) but the punishment would have been very bad. The guards in Syrian prisons have a reputation for torture, he probably wouldn't have survived the prison sentence.

He wouldn't have even thought about doing that in Syria, he basically said as much. He did it because he believed it would be accepted in Germany, and it was!


----------



## Jp4GA

Come a SHTF situation and there are no rules, then we will take it on a case by case basis--- We plan to stay put and will assume that those roaming around are probably out of supplies or looking for trouble. We won't have supplies to share and we don't want trouble so it will be best for all involved if they avoid us as we will not let things go easily and will fight to protect group from all invaders. If we end up leaving and going to our secondary location we will avoid others and stay away from private property knowing that getting too close may cost us our lives.


----------



## Medic33

Sonya said:


> In all fairness, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and probably quite a few other Muslim countries would have executed the guy for that.
> 
> I believe the guy was Syrian, not sure if Syria would have executed him (since they do not practice Sharia law) but the punishment would have been very bad. The guards in Syrian prisons have a reputation for torture, he probably wouldn't have survived the prison sentence.
> 
> He wouldn't have even thought about doing that in Syria, he basically said as much. He did it because he believed it would be accepted in Germany, and it was!


no they wouldn't, sex with young boy over there is common -now sex between two adult ****'s men or women- yep they hang a person for that.

but I figure sonya this thread is about rule of engagement when shtf and society completely breaks down -I don't care what YOU or anyone else thinks people will become less than animals -I have seen it so if you look like food, if you act like food, you will be eaten. my land my rules -you don't like them join the heads on the pikes.


----------



## Sonya

Medic33 said:


> but I figure sonya this thread is about rule of engagement when shtf and society completely breaks down -I don't care what YOU or anyone else thinks people will become less than animals -I have seen it so if you look like food, if you act like food, you will be eaten. my land my rules -you don't like them join the heads on the pikes.


Huh? What are you talking about? Jackangus is the bleeding heart liberal that wants to get warm and fuzzy with every potential maurader that comes his way.

Sheesh some are accusing me of being a cold hearted sociopath, while you imply I am a snowflake that doesn't understand the harsh realities of TEOTWAWKI.

I do not care what they do over there. That isn't any of my business and I most certainly am not in favor of killing a few million of them in an effort to correct their moral deficiencies. As far as what happens here during the SHTF, you are absolutely right, people will become food and I have researched basic field dressing to prepare for that contingency.


----------



## Arklatex

Sonya said:


> Sheesh some are accusing me of being a cold hearted sociopath, while you imply I am a snowflake that doesn't understand the harsh realities of TEOTWAWKI.





Sonya said:


> As far as what happens here during the SHTF, you are absolutely right, people will become food and I have researched basic field dressing to prepare for that contingency.


And now we can add cannibal to the list. Lmao!!!


----------



## Sonya

Arklatex said:


> And now we can add cannibal to the list. Lmao!!!


LOL, I wouldn't want to eat it. Not only is it disgusting but also a disease risk. Cooking doesn't destroy brain eating prions. Though it should be pretty safe for dogs or chickens. Plus from what I have read human flesh is very fatty (though that may not be as much of a problem after the SHTF).

Not all of us have 3 years of food stored away, it wouldn't be right to waste good protein.


----------



## Denton

Sonya said:


> LOL...so saying you hate f---ing muslimes isn't hate! Wanting to invade their homelands, and in the process kill a million or so of mostly women and children because you disagree with their governmental policies, isn't hate!
> 
> But when I am pragmatic and say they have the right to live by their own cultural standards and be left alone in their own homelands that is _ultra-hateful._
> 
> The fact you actually believe that shows how twisted your thought processes are. You are no different than the "muslimes" you despise. They (some, certainly not all of 'em) want to invade your culture and destroy your way of life, and you advocate doing the exact same thing to them!


And there is where we have missed the boat. If nothing else, that was the cruise line voyage we were sold. Spread Democracy voyage, stopping at all countries in the Middle East.

The dictators were the ones keeping a lid on the spread of Islam by the sword. Toppling their regimes released the demons.

Interesting how the West picked the regimes to be toppled, though. For example, Saudi Arabia is not a democracy. Christians are executed simply for having a smuggled Bible or speaking to a cousin about Jesus. Family members of Christians are executed in front of the Christian in the attempt to get the Christian to renounce Jesus. Saudi Arabia has been the Islamists' primary benefactor. Have we attempted to touch the House of Saud? Of course not.

No, it has nothing to do with the spread of democracy.


----------



## Targetshooter

How did we get off of the topic of the OP ? lets get back on it , so I can catch up with it . " I am a little slow here " lol


----------



## Inor

Sonya said:


> LOL...so saying you hate f---ing muslimes isn't hate! Wanting to invade their homelands, and in the process kill a million or so of mostly women and children because you disagree with their governmental policies, isn't hate!
> 
> But when I am pragmatic and say they have the right to live by their own cultural standards and be left alone in their own homelands that is _ultra-hateful._
> 
> The fact you actually believe that shows how twisted your thought processes are. You are no different than the "muslimes" you despise. They (some, certainly not all of 'em) want to invade your culture and destroy your way of life, and you advocate doing the exact same thing to them!


My hatred of muslims absolutely IS hate on the most visceral level. It seems like a natural and healthy human reaction to hate those who have openly stated they are going to kill you just because you breath. So if we are going to fight them anyway, I would much rather have the fight in their backyard rather than ours so it is their stuff that gets broken, not ours. Germany learned that the hard way yesterday.


----------



## Denton

Inor said:


> My hatred of muslims absolutely IS hate on the most visceral level. It seems like a natural and healthy human reaction to hate those who have openly stated they are going to kill you just because you breath. So if we are going to fight them anyway, I would much rather have the fight in their backyard rather than ours so it is their stuff that gets broken, not ours. Germany learned that the hard way yesterday.


All the Western European nations have learned this. The lesson is immaterial, though. The adherents to Islam are not there to assimilate, but to conquer. The indigenous populations are unarmed and overwhelmed. You and I knew what would happen, and I am certain the leaders of the European nations knew it, too.


----------



## SOCOM42

During the WW-2 battle for Leningrad, and before lake Ladoga froze over enough to bring in supplies, the people starved.

In their desperation they ate the horses and all sorts of other animals, scraped the potato starch off of stripped wall paper for food.

Bread was made with 50% sawdust.

And when most else ran out they ate hundreds of dead people, Russians and Germans.

The same thing will happen here post SHTF, it is a common event, but not much of a topic worldwide.

Common, in the last century in the Amazon basin, Central Africa and New Guinea in the south west Pacific.

These locations are of traditional consumption, not from the stress of survival as we would relate or submit to.

Most metroturds here(US) would starve if they had to gut a chicken, let alone cut up a thigh of a human carcass.


----------



## Denton

Not even with taters could I eat those who die off in the first weeks of WROL. Way too much fat.


----------



## SDF880

Survival of the fittest!

Note the "Slippy Pikes" at 00:59


----------



## Coastie dad

That sounded more like they would be more likely to eat the animals instead of you. Which is probable. Most people would eat domestic pets before humans.


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

Can't say in my travels I have seen humans canniabalized, but I have sure heard of it...now, as far as "domestic" animals...yeah, been there done that, our gracious SOF partners in south america fed me some dog on my first rotation...can't say it tasted bad

I would definitely chow down on fido if it gets bad, which it probably will depending on SHTF/WROL situations...I don't really like dogs anyway, so I have no qualms loading pooch with some 10mm and making burritos


----------



## Moonshinedave

Halt, do not move or i will shoot!


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> Huh? What are you talking about? Jackangus is the bleeding heart liberal that wants to get warm and fuzzy with every potential maurader that comes his way.
> 
> Sheesh some are accusing me of being a cold hearted sociopath, while you imply I am a snowflake that doesn't understand the harsh realities of TEOTWAWKI.
> 
> I do not care what they do over there. That isn't any of my business and I most certainly am not in favor of killing a few million of them in an effort to correct their moral deficiencies. As far as what happens here during the SHTF, you are absolutely right, people will become food and I have researched basic field dressing to prepare for that contingency.


I think if you read some of my posts you would see I'm no bleeding heart liberal. Most of the stuff I have said about giving people a chance, or being a little careful not to shoot to quick is about women and children, especially kids.
I have two of my own children and I could never imagine hurting a kid. I'm sure like the rest of you if I had to I could, but I would feel sick about it.
After some thinking about some of the stuff I said on this thread, I was wrong and naive, I admit that.

On the other hand, you seem so blase about woman and kids getting mutilated and hurt if it is somewhere else. 
From what I have read on here, you completely come across like a cold hearted sociopath.

I'm still waiting for you to quote me on the shotgun thread where I was really rude to you.


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

This thread needs Operator6 in it 
@Denton, I give you 5000 pesos from my nigerian cousin to bring him back for 24-29.5 hours por favor

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


----------



## Coastie dad

Damn. Opie6 and M118lr. 
".....those were the days....."


----------



## Sonya

Coastie dad said:


> That sounded more like they would be more likely to eat the animals instead of you. Which is probable. Most people would eat domestic pets before humans.


I didn't misconstrue the comment, there was some prior history so believe me it wasn't an innocent misunderstanding.

And yes of course domestic animals will be preyed upon by the starving masses. That would be a huge concern for me and cause a lot of sleepless nights along with a great deal of stress, so I would try to turn a negative into a positive given the opportunity.

Plus once evidence was seen strewn on the road in front of my house I am pretty sure most of the neighbors would leave me the heck alone. I can't claim credit for that idea, saw it on a youtube prepper video and it is a good one. Great psychological warfare.

:vs_shocked:

@Jackangus it isn't what you said, it is what you didn't bother to say. Dumb Question thread. On the upside perhaps this thread has opened your eyes, don't assume all females are harmless little angels, but do assume we are all good at pretending to be when we want to. People see what they want to see and that makes it easy.


----------



## Jackangus

> @Jackangus it isn't what you said, it is what you didn't bother to say. Dumb Question thread. On the upside perhaps this thread has opened your eyes, don't assume all females are harmless little angels, but do assume we are all good at pretending to be when we want to. People see what they want to see and that makes it easy.


So you are pissy with me cause I did not like, or say thank you. You come across like you have pretty thick skin so I am really surprised that bothered you. I bet you have not replied or liked every single person that has replied in one of your threads. 
I am very new to this, So if that caused you offence I certainly did not mean it to. I know exactly how devious a woman can be, I have been married for 15 years.


----------



## Pir8fan

Even in a WROL situation, there will be one rule I'll always follow. Me, family and friends first. No one else need apply.


----------



## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> I bet you have not replied or liked every single person that has replied in one of your threads.


If I ask for advice then I do my best to thank every reply, even if the advice they gave was rather stupid. They took the time to reply to my request, so I can take the time to acknowledge it. In that shotgun thread if you had actually read my reply/s you would have realized it explained a whole heck of a lot and was in fact valuable information.


----------



## Coastie dad

Gee, @Sonya, you seem awfully upset about something. And hinting to leave if you don't like what someone says?

For a tough, independent woman, you sure are painting a stereotypical portrait of yourself with your words, falling for the bait and giving emotional responses.


----------



## Jackangus

Sonya said:


> If I ask for advice then I do my best to thank every reply, even if the advice they gave was rather stupid. They took the time to reply to my request, so I can take the time to acknowledge it. In that shotgun thread if you had actually read my reply/s you would have realized it explained a whole heck of a lot and was in fact valuable information.


I did read it, just forgot to say thank-you.
No reason to chew my ass over it.


----------



## admin

This is a lesson that took me many years to learn. Now and then I need a reminder...

*"You don't have to attend every argument to which you are invited."*

Life is way too short to get hung up on the little stuff.

Let's move on.


----------



## Sonya

Coastie dad said:


> Gee, @Sonya, you seem awfully upset about something. And hinting to leave if you don't like what someone says?
> 
> For a tough, independent woman, you sure are painting a stereotypical portrait of yourself with your words, falling for the bait and giving emotional responses.


I'm a stereotype? Okay. Regardless, some lines don't get crossed. Making comments advocating the killing or raping of poster's own kids or pets falls into that category. That isn't a radical new concept, even the roughest forums on the Internet know that is where the line is drawn.

But on the upside, just for you Coastie Dad, if it keeps happening instead of quietly leaving I will go out in a banned blaze of glory just to defy the stereotype! I am sure that would be more fun for the onlookers.


----------



## admin

Sonya said:


> I'm a stereotype? Okay. Regardless, some lines don't get crossed. Making comments advocating the killing or raping of poster's own kids or pets falls into that category. That isn't a radical new concept, even the roughest forums on the Internet know that is where the line is drawn.
> 
> But on the upside, just for you Coastie Dad, if it keeps happening instead of quietly leaving I will go out in a banned blaze of glory just to defy the stereotype! I am sure that would be more fun for the onlookers.


Respectfully, when the admin says that it is time to move on, that means it is time to move on.

It does NOT mean to get one more comment in to keep dragging on the argument.


----------



## Inor

Cricket said:


> Respectfully, when the admin says that it is time to move on, that means it is time to move on.
> 
> It does NOT mean to get one more comment in to keep dragging on the argument.


Good! Now we can get back to talking about topics of substance.

So when ya'll punch a hippie, do you lead off with a gut shot first or do you go straight for the head?

Personally, I ALWAYS go for the mouth with the intent of knocking out his two front teeth. That way, until he gets them fixed he will be talking with a lisp. I mean who's day is made a little brighter watching some smelly hippie running around screaming "Thonald Thrump Thucks!" It makes me grin just thinking about it.


----------



## A Watchman

Inor said:


> Good! Now we can get back to talking about topics of substance.
> 
> So when ya'll punch a hippie, do you lead off with a gut shot first or do you go straight for the head?
> 
> Personally, I ALWAYS go for the mouth with the intent of knocking out his two front teeth. That way, until he gets them fixed he will be talking with a lisp. I mean who's day is made a little brighter watching some smelly hippie running around screaming "Thonald Thrump Thucks!" It makes me grin just thinking about it.


Head shot ... always. One swing whether it knocks out his teeth or not, and he is usually gone leaving behind his hippie chick, I claim her and consider them spoils of war.


----------



## A Watchman

Coastie dad said:


> Damn. Opie6 and M118lr.
> ".....those were the days....."


Ahh yes .... the good ole days of the high seas and the tall trees.


----------



## Sonya

Cricket said:


> Respectfully, when the admin says that it is time to move on, that means it is time to move on.
> 
> It does NOT mean to get one more comment in to keep dragging on the argument.


Cricket I get the point. Coastie calls me a stereotypical wimp in case Hag's comment wasn't bad enough, then Hag and Hawgrider make sure to "like" his post to encourage it.

In response you tell *me* I had better watch my step. Your point is pretty ####### clear. You win and I am outta here.


----------



## admin

Sonya said:


> Cricket I get the point. Coastie calls me a stereotypical wimp in case Hag's comment wasn't bad enough, then Hag and Hawgrider make sure to "like" his post to encourage it.
> 
> In response you tell *me* I had better watch my step. Your point is pretty ####### clear. You win and I am outta here.


The only point is there is simply a time to fuss and a time to move on and let things go.

Cussing me, will in fact earn you a vacation though.


----------



## Denton

No cussing. I had to clean up the original as well as the quoted. 
Think of the children.


----------



## admin

Most of y'all know that I am pretty easy going. (I do have limits though.)

I am slow to intervene in situations (people fussing in a thread) because it is important that people are able to speak their thoughts, even when I don't necessarily agree.

I may not know the best rules of engagement post SHTF in WROL (mess with one of my kids and we are likely to find out) BUT I do know the *rules* of engagement here in this community.

I don't want to close this thread. I want for us to discuss it in an adult manner.

Now, let's get back to the topic at hand.


----------



## A Watchman

Yep ..... this month here at PF has been just like old times. ( A Watchman senses his infamous crooked ....... well you guys know the rest of the routine)


----------



## admin

A Watchman said:


> Yep ..... this month here at PF has been just like old times. ( A Watchman senses his infamous crooked ....... well you guys know the rest of the routine)


Dang it, now ya went and made me laugh. :vs_laugh:


----------



## A Watchman

Cricket said:


> Dang it, now ya went and made me laugh. :vs_laugh:


Of course I did. During these trying and stressful times we live in, we all should never lose hold of the fact that finding a little humor in life .... is good for the soul (and your own sanity).


----------



## admin

ciprep said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed before, but this is a question I've thought about a lot here recently. After a sustained "situation" in which things don't bounce back, how does this community view the rules during an engagement where there is no rule of law? I value human life quite a lot, but I realize that not everyone will in a scenario where's there is conflict at any level. There will be those that are lawless that will prey upon the weak (and just about anyone else for that matter). In the military obviously there's ROE, but at which point is lethal force justified? I recently got into a strong "discussion" with someone in which he argued that if someone showed up on his doorstep demanding food or water, he'd prefer to use lethal force out of fear that they may go and get a mob and return to his home. I just don't can't imagine killing people out of fear of what may happen, but then again, if we're truly in a WROL scenario, if you're stupid enough to make demands you may not live.
> 
> Just curious how others have processed their views on basic rules of engagement. Curious if there's been any good articles, forum threads or blog posts on this issue anyone has found (or has their own opinion on the matter).
> 
> Thanks!


I don't have a magic answer for you. The best we can do, in my very humble opinion, is to be prepared for whatever may be, for our individual situations.

In the end, it doesn't really matter what others may or may not do, it only matters what YOU decide is right for YOU and your family.

Just my 2 cents...


----------



## A Watchman

Thank you Cricket. ^^^^


----------



## hawgrider

Is this the "chicks" thread? My ears were ringing...

But back on topic "Rules of engagement " Mine are do unto others before they do unto you.


----------



## A Watchman

hawgrider said:


> Is this the "chicks" thread? My ears were ringing...
> 
> But back on topic "Rules of engagement " Mine are do unto others before they do unto you.


Hawg My Man! (A Watchman continues to muse as Hawg maneuvers through life as a natural southern ******* ... in cognito)


----------



## Coastie dad

I'm going to say this:
As some of you know I work in a hospital for mental health issues.
Every, and I do mean EVERY situation where a decision must be made to either deescalate verbally or intervene physically is different. There is NO ONE ANSWER.
However, there are various techniques that may be applied to those different situations.
So the best answer in my opinion is to be able to quickly evaluate a situation based on parameters that have been pre established, then choose the best option from your menu of skills available.

Vague answer? Only if you don't have parameters set already, and limited or no skills.


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

...did I miss ANOTHER banhammer?! 

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


----------



## Coastie dad

Look! Look!

Up above!

I made a serious post without insulting someone or using vulgarity!
@Cricket done drove the demon outta me!


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Coastie dad said:


> Look! Look!
> 
> Up above!
> 
> I made a serious post without insulting someone or using vulgarity!
> @Cricket done drove the demon outta me!


You gave a reasoned response to a question very few on this board has ever faced. And most likely never will face.

I had already typed up, and deleted, several responses to some of the other posts.
Thankfully, only a small percentage of Americans have had to engage in close combat. It is something that WILL affect a person for the rest of their life.
If it doesn't, their moral compass it broken.


----------



## inceptor

Coastie dad said:


> I'm going to say this:
> As some of you know I work in a hospital for mental health issues.
> Every, and I do mean EVERY situation where a decision must be made to either deescalate verbally or intervene physically is different. There is NO ONE ANSWER.
> However, there are various techniques that may be applied to those different situations.
> So the best answer in my opinion is to be able to quickly evaluate a situation based on parameters that have been pre established, then choose the best option from your menu of skills available.
> 
> Vague answer? Only if you don't have parameters set already, and limited or no skills.


Honestly there is no one size fits all answer. You have to deal with each situation as it arises. If you try to just kill everyone, sooner or later you run out of ammo. Then it's your turn.


----------



## A Watchman

In a SHTF scenario, one can be certain adversity will rule. This thread and its participants, have been a case example of how our emotions regarding personal worldviews can (will) drive our ability to persevere ... or flameout.


----------



## Mungus50

Coastie dad said:


> I'm going to say this:
> As some of you know I work in a hospital for mental health issues.
> Every, and I do mean EVERY situation where a decision must be made to either deescalate verbally or intervene physically is different. There is NO ONE ANSWER.
> However, there are various techniques that may be applied to those different situations.
> So the best answer in my opinion is to be able to quickly evaluate a situation based on parameters that have been pre established, then choose the best option from your menu of skills available.
> 
> Vague answer? Only if you don't have parameters set already, and limited or no skills.


I also work on the same line of work. You put it perfectly

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## 8301

inceptor said:


> And there are no re-do's.


Re-Do's something to seriously think about in a post -- SHTF condition. Because there are no Re Do's I keep pepper spray in my less than mature boy's nightstand. When a person I don't know extremely well because there are no Re Do's I suggest pepper spray or a 12 ga with birdshot.

In today's litigious society it's something to think about.


----------



## 8301

rice paddy daddy said:


> Thankfully, only a small percentage of Americans have had to engage in close combat. It is something that WILL affect a person for the rest of their life.
> If it doesn't, their moral compass it broken.


deleted


----------



## inceptor

I am not nor ever have been a soldier. I have never had to kill anyone but I have been shot at a few times. I really hope I never have to but, when it comes to my family or them............


----------



## SOCOM42

John Galt said:


> Re
> 
> The full post quote should have been here, something wrong with site, three computers and the same thing happens..
> 
> Your last line referencing law, there may be none.
> 
> However, In a shooting situation, it is best to have no perp left to testify against you.
> 
> With the courts the way they are, Perp could be out in six months and looking to ambush you somewhere of his choosing.
> 
> "He shot me only because I kicked in his door for a cup of sugar, and I only wanted my ax sharpened".
> 
> If there is no forensic evidence to show other than your statement, you will be the final statement.
> 
> Trust me you don't want to go through a trial.
> 
> The most less lethal weapon I keep next to me in the bedroom is a 38 special, the biggest a 308 Galil.


----------



## Medic33

Ok perp is when there is law around to worry about. In a SHTF complete societal meltdown what law is there? THERE ARE NO LAWS ANYMORE EVERYTHING IS COMPLETE CHAOS.
now do I think this type of scenario will ever happen?-not really, sure but has about as much chance as winning the lotto while falling out of an airplane that was just struck by a meteor and landing face first in an erupting volcano while it is raining flounders. 
forensic evidence -hey if that ass clown is in my house at 3 am I not going to worry about forensic evidence and that is about all that is likely to happen -why? castle doctrine baby, castle doctrine . maybe in your state that means jack schitt but out here were I live it means a lot especially when coupled with the stand your ground /make my day laws.
as far a rules -I will say it again -there are no rules. you do what you got to and that is that.


----------



## Nick22N

@Jackangus @AnotherSOFSurvivor @A Watchman
Have you all noticed that those idiots who blow themselves up are all Muslims? Every Single terrorist is a muslim. I know Islam has some really good teachings but are they followed? Why is it that it is the most barbaric? I feel disgusted by it. @Sonya, u mentioned that women have rights, they are entitled Dowry and all that, but is it really happening in the real world? Hell no. Women are treated worse than animals. And yeah, Islam itself has so many restrictions. It is a very dominating religion. My country has faced oppression from those Muslim rulers of the past. I don't know if Trump is good or bad for the future of America, but he's view on treating Muslims with suspicion, I completely agree with. True, you have some really good muslims but I feel its not because of the religion, its because he is a good person at heart. But I would still not trust him immediately because these muslims have been known to stab in the back.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


----------



## A Watchman

Hey *@Nick22N *.... terrorism is a style of warfare easily identified by its cowardly strategies. It is also carried out and planned by chicken shits.


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

A Watchman said:


> Hey *@Nick22N *.... terrorism is a style of warfare easily identified by its cowardly strategies. It is also carried out and planned by chicken shits.


No man, not chicken shits...theyre lethal and calculating, underestimating the enemy that is Islam is mistake that has been made since the 70s, we shouldnt repeat it

Terrorism is the easiest tactic employed by any foreign adversaries; too easy to paralyze the populace by blowing some idiots up and flaying or beheading people

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


----------



## Nick22N

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> No man, not chicken shits...theyre lethal and calculating, underestimating the enemy that is Islam is mistake that has been made since the 70s, we shouldnt repeat it
> 
> Terrorism is the easiest tactic employed by any foreign adversaries; too easy to paralyze the populace by blowing some idiots up and flaying or beheading people
> 
> sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


I agree. They are cold hearted and dangerous. Underestimating them (Islam following terrorists) is a mistake. I have seen the death and destruction they leave in their path. Mumbai terror attacks, they slaughtered every single non muslim. Americans, Indians, everyone blown apart by grenades and riddled with bullets. I can never ever trust a person following a barbaric religion.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


----------



## Denton

Nick22N said:


> I agree. They are cold hearted and dangerous. Underestimating them (Islam following terrorists) is a mistake. I have seen the death and destruction they leave in their path. Mumbai terror attacks, they slaughtered every single non muslim. Americans, Indians, everyone blown apart by grenades and riddled with bullets. I can never ever trust a person following a barbaric religion.
> 
> Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


Then, you know that any of the pretty suras found in the Qur'an are nothing but garnish on a turd.


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## Medic33

I have a question -if that suicide blowing one self up is suppose to be so great and the fastest way to their heaven with special honors -why are their leaders not jumping on that band wagon -I mean is it not the real point they are trying to get across -how to get to heaven with the most glory?


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## Nick22N

Medic33 said:


> I have a question -if that suicide blowing one self up is suppose to be so great and the fastest way to their heaven with special honors -why are their leaders not jumping on that band wagon -I mean is it not the real point they are trying to get across -how to get to heaven with the most glory?


They all are cowards. Brainwash kids and other teenage guns, train them and raise them up as a sacrificial fanatics army. Disgusted to see them using kids as young as 7-11 years old blow themselves up as suicide bombers. I read the book "no Easy day" and it was written in the book that when Osama Bin laden knew there were navy Seals in his house to kill him, he didn't even pick up a gun to defend himself. Coward.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk


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## RJAMES

You have to write your own ROE. For me it has always been I never attack anyone. Try and avoid a fight- move away if you can or talk yourself out of the situation. If they start it you finish it, quickly/violently. If it is a group you can often get them to stop their attack by wounding rather than killing those in front. Sometimes killing outright just enrages them, wounding can cause them to stop and take care of the wounded. 

Who knows you might end up trading with them or having to band with them to stop other attackers.


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## RJAMES

Sonya said:


> And forget printed signs, I have "No Tresspassing" and "Beware of Dog" signs now on the gate and people still think it doesn't apply to them. Workmen try to enter, or strangers that want directions think if they stay outside the gate and force me to come out to greet them it is okay. Sheesh I am pretty darn unfriendly now, it won't be much of a change to become completely antisocial after a disaster.
> 
> Hand painted (and crudely worded) signs blocking their path would be the best.


Just a suggestion for normal times - many are just lost looking for the correct address make it easy for them by posting / marking your address. Try and get your neighbors to mark there lane/ house as well. Many I talk to think posting your address has something to do with getting mail and a mail box. Now days many rural homes do not have a mail box at all. Some get mail in town at work, use a post office box or simply do not get any snail mail. However the FEDEX guy needs help finding a place you can put a sign with your address or have them stopping asking for directions. If you do not have it already put up your address.

At your gate small sign with a phone number or plastic bag with note pad and pencil so people can leave you a note. Workman Gas Company , Water or Electric company have valid reasons make it easy for them and you.

In most states even if you have No Trespassing signs the Law allows people to walk up to the door and knock. They are not trespassing if all they do is walk up a lane or walkway to what appears to be the front door. The address at the end of the lane and the note pad will stop most of the people coming up to the house.

One Question is the gate locked or just shut . I have defeated locked gates to put out a fire in a house or barn but other firefighters I know would find the gate locked and stop . Neighbor called on the house burning so the truck rolls but with the gate locked they stopped; the house , barn and several outbuildings lost . What you can do is give the Fire Department a key to the gate. Many will tell me I am wrong but If you have 500 gallons of gas setting in a shed tell the fire department or at least mark the shed so they know if they ever have to be out at your place. Couple no smoking within 50 feet would warn them but not tell them all your business.


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## A Watchman

Ummm ... Huh?


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor

Note to homeowner:

Im gonna put your head on a pike and rape your cows

Love,
Plunderers

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## tc556guy

It would seem to be that if there is no law ( that last letter in the acronym WROL ) that is likely to be reinstated at any time soon, you'd be left to your own moral compass on levels of force and what actions you take in a given scenario.


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## Slippy

(How in the hell did I miss this? :vs_mad


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