# South Koreans Hit on How to Survive Cold Winters with No Heat



## voodoo (Dec 29, 2015)

I thought about this one for a while and was pleased to find that others seem to have come to the same conclusion independently! Prepper scenario: bitter cold winter, you live in a city apartment, no heat, no electricity or oil and gas deliveries for whatever reason. I guess this is a senstive spot for me because on the way home I always see poor souls sleeping outside in the cold New England winter. I count my blessings and wonder what it must be like to be outside at night when it is ten degrees. But if your heat is knocked out, it will be ten degrees inside too.

No woodstove, no fireplace, not unusual for city living. So I went down the line with my thinking cap on, researching and web surfing. Burn a hobo stove indoors? Don't even think about it. You'll asphyxiate yourself and your family, or burn down the only shelter you have. Kerosene heater? Kerosene is a fairly expensive way to heat, and city dwellers can't stock gallons of flammable liquid in a closet. See the dilemma?

Make a long story short, I finally took the problem from the other end. Instead of thinking of a way to heat a big space, and even if you are only heating one room for everyone to sleep in, a lot of it winds up by the ceiling, how can you make the space you need to heat even smaller? Let's see, that could mean sealing off part of a big room with plastic, and hunkering down there burning maybe a few candles or cans of sterno. But a-ha, thinks I, what is made for this sort of thing? A four season tent!

People stay alive in bitter cold at night all the time. They are winter campers, and they sleep on a mountainside in January and don't wake up as icicles. Tents made for cold shrink the space you must heat to a handful of square feet, small enough for your body heats alone to raise to a comfortable temperature. Combine that with good winter sleeping bags, another essential piece of gear if the heat goes out.

All you are doing is what winter campers do to stay warm when they sleep. You are just doing it indoors. Lo and behold, came across this article that says that is exactly what folks in South Korea are doing after taking two dozen nuclear power plants off line: Making tents that fit the bed!

Would you use an indoor tent to save money on heating costs? : TreeHugger









As for burning a fuel source for heat, I have come to the conclusion that the only safe, practical methods is either an alcohol burner or a special kind of candle and candle holder which can generate nearly 4000 BTU:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...ep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg
Running down this rabbit hole was as interesting for finding out what NOT to do as what to do. Turns out all those deaths you read about in the cold snaps each year are mostly not from freezing, but from people trying to burn BBQ charcoal indoors, so the carbon monoxide kills them.

Please visit PreppedNtation.net, prepping made easy for city folks.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Better drain the water from your pipes. Sewage?


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I was just toying with the idea to get a generator or a ventless heater for just such situations. Good thread! Really don't need to heat the whole stinkin house! Sleep like cabin spoons.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Looks like a person could just stay in bed an cover up. Thats how we did it back in the good old days.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

The love of beautiful leader keep us warm. That and our dog. Where he at?


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## voodoo (Dec 29, 2015)

1skrewsloose said:


> I was just toying with the idea to get a generator or a ventless heater for just such situations. Good thread! Really don't need to heat the whole stinkin house! Sleep like cabin spoons.


I think what most people don't realize is your body itself is a big heater, runs at close to 100 degrees. The trick is keeping that heat all on one small place, or combining it if there are more than one of you. These tents are high tech and do a difficult trick: which is to breath so moisture can get out but at the same time keep the heat in. The fact is you only need the small space where you sleep to be warm. The book shelves and HD tv don't care : )


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

There are many videos on hot tent camping and using different types of bags to survive below zero. The MSS is one of many ways to survive extreme cold. I have one, but the coldest it has been is 39 in my camper and my hunting buddy turned on the central heat and it was like 80 all night. I was miserable.


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## voodoo (Dec 29, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Looks like a person could just stay in bed an cover up. Thats how we did it back in the good old days.


Good point. Some of the ultimate survalists are homeless people in the northern US. I have heard them talking about the importance of insulating BELOW you as well as above you, where a lot of heat can escape. That's why you want to sleep with a blanket UNDER you as well as those on top. The homeless guys say cardboard is one of the best insulators below you. Anything which keeps you off the cold ground which sucks away your body heat. In a bug out situation cardboard will be something to have. You see all the homeless guys with it because it works.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> The love of beautiful leader keep us warm. That and our dog. Where he at?


Beautiful leader is North Korea not South. Think the dog thing goes for either side.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

I just get out the wool blankets.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Shoot, throw some quilts over the top, space blankets inside, you'd be toastie! Forgot all about wool blankets, best choice. jmo. Going to buy mil surp blankets very soon and sow them together. They're never big enough, my feet always hang out!


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I feel I have food,water, cooking in order, staying alive in the cold is something I guess I never really considered. Good heads up! Well, considered, but blew off, how stupid off me!!


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I have went out coyote hunting in my carhart's in the fence row overlooking the field east of here. With the proper clothes on you can take a nice nap laying on the ground at zero degrees with no problems. If you have a couch and blankets you would be good to 20 below. What's the big deal. Heat is great if you need to bathe. Heat up a rock and put it in bed and that high livin.

Don't get me wrong I never want to do this so I have three different means to heat our house.
Propane forced air furnace has not been on since 2013
Wood furnace forced air ducted into house.
Kerosene 23 thousand btu will heat the whole place.

Then the gas stove candles torpedo heater. As back up to back up to backup.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Sounds like a 3 dog night.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

When I lost power in the winter, I put on more clothes and lit a fire.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

and then what?

If you are waiting for heat to be restored things like this can help. However its not a solution for living in an environment. IMO you don't want to be in a frozen land in a survival situation. It is just too lethal. If you are hunting or have some other reason for being there sure. Keeping heat in is good, as long as you have ventilation things are good. Electric heating is still probably one of the best options indoors if you have it as long as the elements are working. It tends to be costly with electric rates up though. 

I've found the key is to keep movement but not break a sweat.

You burn a lot of calories trying to stay warm though. So if you plan on heating with your body realize it needs fuel too. There is a maximum oil intake and other digesibilities so make sure you plan according to your needs for an increased calorie intake. Also take into account you just can't lay in bed all the time otherwise atrophy will set in, make sure you build in a good exercise regime too, and start this well in advance so you have endurance.

Once slow hypothermia sets in it gets more difficult to leave it because you just get more and more tired until you fall asleep.

bear in mind winter in texas ain't winter in Northern Ontario.

I need to deal with minus 40 temperatures. Anything around freezing is ok without heat. Once you start getting below -5 (23f) or -10 (14f) you need to start planning due to needing to get airflow too. These tents are a way of keeping the air heated a little more around your face which should help with managing your face from getting frostbitten. It is very compelling to cover ones face when the air is freezing, but it will likely hamper airflow. The way people sleep needs to be taken into consideration with clean air supply. So that people don't sleep longer than good quality airflow is available based on the volume of the shelter.


No heat for you guys down south is a bit of a joke.
If you arn't in the double digets freezing there is no safety risk with adequette clothing. (by double digets I mean less than about 15 f.)

The real problem is if you wake up from hypo and it has gotten colder you need to fight confusion and find ways to warm up toes and other things like nose etc... before a deep freeze sets in on them, as you arn't suppose to dethaw if there is a chance that it will refreeze. Mentally that is a challenge too because you want your body not to be frozen but unfreezing it could mean lost limbs if you fall asleep again.

Any and all measures to increase temp without compramising air quality to a point of lethality should be a priority.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

be leave it or not a few years ago we lost electric in a ice storm my wife and I were very cold that night so we put our 80 lb. dog { lab - chow mixed } in between us and put on nice heavy blanket and in mins. we were warm .


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Will2 said:


> and then what?
> 
> If you are waiting for heat to be restored things like this can help. However its not a solution for living in an environment. IMO you don't want to be in a frozen land in a survival situation. It is just too lethal. If you are hunting or have some other reason for being there sure. Keeping heat in is good, as long as you have ventilation things are good. Electric heating is still probably one of the best options indoors if you have it as long as the elements are working. It tends to be costly with electric rates up though.
> 
> ...


Excellent post Will2,

You are indeed very knowledgeable about winter survival situations and I appreciate your input on this subject.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

Good post indeed Will2,us southern boys don't cotton to really cold weather to well.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Just laying still with layers can keep you alive for strange amounts of time.

Swedish man survived for two months in snowbound car thanks to 'igloo' effect - Telegraph


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## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

We find that having three large dogs in our room heats up the room quite bit. So, I'd go with the OP of this thread (tent), and just pack as many bodies in there (including pets)!


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## voodoo (Dec 29, 2015)

Will2 said:


> and then what?
> 
> If you are waiting for heat to be restored things like this can help. However its not a solution for living in an environment. IMO you don't want to be in a frozen land in a survival situation. It is just too lethal. If you are hunting or have some other reason for being there sure. Keeping heat in is good, as long as you have ventilation things are good. Electric heating is still probably one of the best options indoors if you have it as long as the elements are working. It tends to be costly with electric rates up though.
> 
> ...


This is invaluable insight into the process of hyperthermia, Will2, thanks. My worry isn't losing a night or two of sleep because you are too darn cold but over the long term, when your body temperature is going steadily down. Now your immune system is challenged and you might not be that well-nourished in the first place, bringing it down more, if you have been surviving on a diet of rice and beans. Maybe you don't actually freeze to death but you get sick and get pneumonia and die.

If I had little kids I don't think I'd have much choice. Their body heats are a fraction of an adult's, and they lose heat fast at night. That's a problem they are always having in Afghanistan with refugee babies freezing at night. I say hang an LED light at the top of the tent and put one of these outside a partly open flap of the tent, to heat things up, and you can have a nice little party with the kids. Play cards, read. I would put a reflector behind it, made of a car windshield shade that is reflective or just tape foil across it.

Moda Flame Vigo Tabletop Ventless Bio Ethanol Fireplace Black | eBay









One question I have, for Will2 or anyone, are there any tents billed as three-season tents that are so good they are actually four-season tents, that you know of? A budget four-season seems to run about $400-500. Of course they make these things which will sleep in the North Pole for a few thousand, expedition tents. I sure don't have that kind of money for a tent. Between three-season and four there seems to be a jump of about $300. I see a lot of tree-season for maybe a hundred, but once it's called a four-season it's a lot more.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Did I read in here that an alcohol stove is carbon monoxide safe?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

What are yall smoking?


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## cdell (Feb 27, 2014)

Most 3 season tents have a lot of mesh at the top for ventilation, are taller, and less resistant to wind. I'm sure there is a suitable one out there that isn't too expensive but most winter tents are made to be used outdoors on the side of a mountain so the standards are much higher then what you require in a house.


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## voodoo (Dec 29, 2015)

cdell said:


> Most 3 season tents have a lot of mesh at the top for ventilation, are taller, and less resistant to wind. I'm sure there is a suitable one out there that isn't too expensive but most winter tents are made to be used outdoors on the side of a mountain so the standards are much higher then what you require in a house.


Yes a 4-season is meant to get you through a blizzard and freezing sleet and rain, not something you worry about in the middle of your living room. Since your house is now a big rain fly all the tent has to do is keep in body heat. I have read of a couple of models which say 3 season but some owners swear they are fine at 0 degrees (F). Here's one with good reviews.

Alps Mountaineering Lynx 2 Backpacking Tent 2 Person 5224617 | eBay


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