# The face of pre-SHTF ...



## Will2

can you imagine what this would look like in the US?

Wonder how much this has to do with Russian forces diversion for Sochi.






ps. that is a beautiful building... sad to see the palisade cracked.

Is this why the US gov considers some preppers national security risks?






Is this impossible in a city near you?






There are knowledgable agitators... some methods such as sound agitation tactics, use of envirometal agitations are geared to create anger. environmental psychology tactics.


----------



## oldmurph58

What were the cops rioting for?


----------



## Will2

oldmurph58 said:


> What were the cops rioting for?


heating fuel and their parents?






*



*


----------



## Arizona Infidel

With an old communist as president of Russia, and a communist sympathizer and pro soviet as the president of the USA the rise of the old Soviet Union is coming along nicely.


----------



## PrepperLite

A trebuchet, badass......


----------



## Smitty901

Coming to a country near you. Don't get me wrong not today but we are head that way. Look how they just played the FCC media thing. They rolled it out .
They tested the water then rolled it back in. Now behind the sense it will keep going. Just like they did with the NSA and DHS. we will wake up one morning and right in front of us a new beast working to enslave us.
Think what it would be like in the south west if this happened in Mexico. can't happen ? Think about that a bit.


----------



## PrepperLite

If there is an uprising against the govt i think things would get interesting and unlike any uprising we have seen before. How long would it take unarmed / rock throwing protests to turn into high speed armed battles? I think the main thing on how long these battles will last is how many people the Govt will actually have. You will have a split in the police/military, the ones that follow and the ones that take their oaths seriously.


----------



## Silverback

"The natural tendency is for rights to be whittled away bit-by-bit. Rights are never restored bit-by-bit. Once lost, they are gone until the next revolution" -unknown


----------



## Smitty901

If you can find some video of the Watts riots LA and days of rage in Detroit. That have not been sanitized for PC use in college and schools you maybe shocked
If an uprising were to happen here it would not start as one against the government. It would be Race related, cultural
Like a three sided issue blacks so called white and Hispanic all fighting for a bigger say and a bigger peace of the pie 
Obviously economic status will play a part. Class wars will fuel this.
The War with government directly will come as a response to the action either taken or not taken by the government. 
Once it breaks it is to late. No madder what they do one or more sides is going to feel cheated.
Get out of town if you except a chance, but not now you have time , we can turn this around if you would see socialism for what it is.


----------



## Will2

Smitty901 said:


> If you can find some video of the Watts riots LA and days of rage in Detroit. That have not been sanitized for PC use in college and schools you maybe shocked
> If an uprising were to happen here it would not start as one against the government. It would be Race related, cultural
> Like a three sided issue blacks so called white and Hispanic all fighting for a bigger say and a bigger peace of the pie
> Obviously economic status will play a part. Class wars will fuel this.
> The War with government directly will come as a response to the action either taken or not taken by the government.
> Once it breaks it is to late. No madder what they do one or more sides is going to feel cheated.
> Get out of town if you except a chance, but not now you have time , we can turn this around if you would see socialism for what it is.







massive fog of war


----------



## Deebo

coming to your neighborhood soon. 
5/16/2014 operation spring.


----------



## Smitty901

Please take a minute if you are not old enough to have seen it to look at the 15 pictures on this sight. Now the text is always subjective. History is rewiten all of the time look at the 15 pictures. The go back and look at he videos that were posted of Kiev.
Just a small sample

Detroit Riots 1967: Powerful TIME images show aftermath of race riots | Mail Online

Long video slow old


----------



## Ripon

I was listening to M. savage on the radio yesterday suggest that George Soro's is, in a big way, behind this "movement" in the Ukrain, and that ultimately it's a pro socialist movement against the Moscow elites? Anyone know?


----------



## oldmurph58

Arizona Infidel said:


> With an old communist as president of Russia, and a communist sympathizer and pro soviet as the president of the USA the rise of the old Soviet Union is coming along nicely.


 Just saw the news the commies lost, this morning, dollars to donuts, a lot of commie politians and cops are throwing up. Oh, and the U.S. is gonna find billions to send them. Still watchin the news a deal made commies didnt lose


----------



## Will2

looking like a controlled to some extent coupe... good that winter is half done now.

If neonazi militias took over the us capitol building I would expect more of a response...definately a lot more going on behind the scenes. gov seems to be intent on just allowing political process to prevent escalation.

It is a bit of fog of war imo

btw I don't know if it is neonasi so I apologize if it is not.


----------



## AquaHull

Smitty901 said:


> If you can find some video of the Watts riots LA and days of rage in Detroit. That have not been sanitized for PC use in college and schools you maybe shocked
> If an uprising were to happen here it would not start as one against the government. It would be Race related, cultural
> Like a three sided issue blacks so called white and Hispanic all fighting for a bigger say and a bigger peace of the pie
> Obviously economic status will play a part. Class wars will fuel this.
> The War with government directly will come as a response to the action either taken or not taken by the government.
> Once it breaks it is to late. No madder what they do one or more sides is going to feel cheated.
> Get out of town if you except a chance, but not now you have time , we can turn this around if you would see socialism for what it is.


I don't need to search for DeToilet footage, I seen it first hand,although only as a pre-teen onlooker


----------



## Smitty901

AquaHull said:


> I don't need to search for DeToilet footage, I seen it first hand,although only as a pre-teen onlooker


 Some of us are old enough to know. But many others never even heard of it. It is not even mentioned in schools and what is out there has be rewritten.
We could have easily slipped a few of the pictures in to the first post and few would have noticed.
The only thing that stopped the Watts riots and Detroit burning was cash. We went in and offered big money to the so called leaders a pay off and we never stopped paying. 
I am not say there were not injustices that need to be dealt with. To many people tell me it can't happen here.

LA 1965 14,000 troops


----------



## Will2

Yanukovych is a good example of what a prepper on the wrong side of a mob might do...he seems to have bugged out.
I'm geussing some preppers might act to just go loco and start shooting people.


so what would you do if you were in gov on the gov side right now?


----------



## Smitty901

Will said:


> Yanukovych is a good example of what a prepper on the wrong side of a mob might do...he seems to have bugged out.
> I'm geussing some preppers might act to just go loco and start shooting people.
> 
> so what would you do if you were in gov on the gov side right now?


 If I was on the government side. Leave considerate and reorganize from a safe distance. Let them start fighting among themselves. When they get hungry and are hurting come back in force as their savior . Take a few of the leaders out back ,explain how it is going to go and declare victory.
I know simplistic , but what else can you do. It is to far gone to deal at this point.


----------



## Will2

why would they get hungry if the EU and US are funneling 1/20th of the whole country's annual gdp into the protest organizers?

and caviar is cheap in Ukraine.

----

This sort of makes sense of why independent candidates support workers are being labled as national security risks in the US.

Under the ""tyranny"" of a two party system there is stability.. once you have a whole bunch of factions power sharing under mutliple banners there is a lot more risk of instability or capability due to loyalties and critical mass.

The problem only starts to exist when the public finds a common cause, and has the will to dissent rule by force with force.

Of course the idea of dissent against two party rule being viewed as terrorism is probably problematic for a portion of non card carrying members of those two parties.

I'm geussing you might say that just isn't true, just look at the tea party, right, greens or libertarians, they surely arn't labled as terrorists by the gov.

http://swampland.time.com/2014/02/12/rand-paul-makes-a-risky-grand-standing-play/

http://www.academia.edu/1449301/_20..._Strategy_Targeting_Direct_Action_Activis ts

https://www.google.ca/url?http://ww...rs-say-congress-needs-to-rein-in-the-nsa.html

http://news.yahoo.com/unite-liberals-tea-partyers-nsa-131134539.html

I think the trick may be looking at it the other way around -who is not being monitored as a terrorist? hmm.

from what I can tell the nsa doesn't monitor its monitors until they defect. who else?

or has this policy changed since snowden?

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-v...16-senate-panel-advances-surveillance-funding

but who watches the monitors monitors?

I know I know the secret service right...

wow ukraine got 50% of the NSA's black budget ....

to put that in perspective.. the nsa for the us got only 2 times as much for its black budget as protestors in ukraine from us gov....

I'd hate to see the people making this stuff explain it to a psychiatrist.

it also has me wonder if paranoid delusionals are prescreened from the suspicious activity reporting hotline. (and how that might prevent callins from security personnel - my guess is a referral is required for the job 
where is the line exactly, and in Obama's unsaid words, does it really matter anymore? Change is coming. Prepare.

but not in a terrorist like way, mkay.

Just once I want to hear obama end a speech with mmkay. ok way off topic, back to ukrainian political crisis part 2: a decade later

also where are the reports of the other 5 billion being pumped into syria's "protest movement" 

surely this type of pre-shtf can't happen in America, or is that was the non black budget is for? .................... 

those protestors in syria are totally being repressed.










what is going on with Ukraine's military????

serious stuff. hopefully by contrasting Ukraine and Syria you can see the difference between pre-shtf and shtf






It seems that the military is nothing to be heard of... totally political issue at this times it seems..

gotta like the guys prepping style though... even a farm full of animals.

Yanukovych was a mad prepper maybe that's why he is still alive right now even when things started going to the fan.

He deserves his own doomsday prepper's segment 

where is SouthernPrepper1 to rate Yanukovych's preps?






Hi, I'm Viktor and I'm prepping for fascist overthrow.

brave son's of the land\\






can you see american nationalists/partiots... not sure what that is in America... rolling in with the military gear?

Perhaps this is why the US gov aims to supress preppers and militias for fear they organize against unpopular rule or atleast unpopular to the protest



> Hagel spoke with Defense Minister Pavlo Lebedev Friday afternoon, after several days in which the Pentagon could not reach military officials in Ukraine.


 ....

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/02/21/breedlove-ukraine/5683117/



> ountry has been focused on protecting defense facilities and equipment, and that his forces would not use arms against the Ukrainian people,"


 seems like the military is taking a play from the egyptians playbook.

.....?

is this for real? Olympics end tommorow...

"youtube.com/watch?v=ks5K3lg_utI"


----------



## Will2

This could be bad news for anyone who is from the missing thousands of party of regions and staff at goverment installations..

command and control???

if real


----------



## Smitty901

So your were PM and they took you out and locked you up for 2 1/2 years. Now the streets are a mess and they get you out. Do 
A: let bygones be bygones and all get along
B: invite the people that locked you up to be part of the new government
C: None of the above make them pay.


----------



## inceptor

Smitty, a lot will depend on Russia and what's left of the current govt in the east. They are talking about splitting the Ukraine.


----------



## Will2

inceptor said:


> Smitty, a lot will depend on Russia and what's left of the current govt in the east. They are talking about splitting the Ukraine.


who is they?

parliament voted down a split...






shit may have hit the fan... not fully but the shit is there


----------



## inceptor

Will said:


> who is they?
> 
> parliament voted down a split...


I had just heard on the news that the current govt was holing up in the east. The talk was that Russia would back them but no one knows for sure.

And no, I have no actual source there. This is just what I am getting on Fox.

Also, here is the latest from *C*ommunist *N*ews *N*etwork.

Ukraine's president calls efforts to push him from office a 'coup' - CNN.com


----------



## Will2

Smitty901 said:


> So your were PM and they took you out and locked you up for 2 1/2 years. Now the streets are a mess and they get you out. Do
> A: let bygones be bygones and all get along
> B: invite the people that locked you up to be part of the new government
> C: None of the above make them pay.


D.) I'd go on Vacation in Latin America and the Caribean

Maybe that's why I'm not a leader.


----------



## Smitty901

It would not to far fetched for Russia to help split the country in two. And wait until latter to take back the rest


----------



## inceptor

Smitty901 said:


> It would not to far fetched for Russia to help split the country in two. And wait until latter to take back the rest


Don't put anything past Putin.


----------



## Will2

inceptor said:


> Don't put anything past Putin.


this is unbelievable






this inclines in less than two weeks shit will hit the fan.

unbelievable.

this inclines us forces are being deployed to the black sea...AND that marines are in Ukraine...

in other news...

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...=-5dHXd868jBWEd7ipaMGdA&bvm=bv.61725948,d.bmk


----------



## inceptor

A nuclear war would be useless. We both would make the biggest part of our respective countries uninhabitable for many generations to come.

Now a conventional war is different. This scenario is more likely. The winner would have all the spoils. 

One must remember though that the US has not won a war since WWII.


----------



## Will2

inceptor said:


> A nuclear war would be useless. We both would make the biggest part of our respective countries uninhabitable for many generations to come.
> 
> Now a conventional war is different. This scenario is more likely. The winner would have all the spoils.
> 
> One must remember though that the US has not won a war since WWII.


traditionally Russia doesn't leave spoils, remember... although yes I know, Stalin was a Soviet from Georgia, not Russia per se he did leave Georgia for a carear in Russia.






It is hard to win a war if you don't declare one.

I think the last US declaration of war was on anyone who wasn't a government but was militant.

and before that it was on anything the US thought was a bad deal or trip or something like that.

The DEA just got Guzman I think, however, that still doesn't end the war.


----------



## inceptor

Will said:


> traditionally Russia doesn't leave spoils, remember... although yes I know, Stalin was a Soviet from Georgia, not Russia per se he did leave Georgia for a carear in Russia.


Even Russia has never left a land uninhabitable. That is the effect of a thermonuclear blast. What do you think hundreds of bombs will do?

We both have a multitude of subs with nuclear warheads off each others coasts. These will be put into play regardless of who strikes first. The other side will have plenty of warning, enough time to launch hundreds of missiles with nuclear warheads. Both countries will be toast.

What do you think the Soviet Union was, just Russia? The Soviet Union was a group of conquered countries bound together, ruled by Russia until they collapsed financially. Russia has recovered and wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. Ukraine was a major part of the original.


----------



## Will2

hWilliam Hague warns Russia not to intervene in Ukraine | World news | theguardian.com

Wow. A little unexpect. Can you imagine that, that is like Russia telling the UK to not interfere in Ireland or Scotland.



> ." In his next post, he added, "A summit took place here of five [Ukrainian] regions against violence, chaos and collapse."
> 
> The part of the summit's resolution that will worry the West, however, was its call for citizens to form militias in the Crimea and eastern Ukraine "in cooperation with the regional security structures." On the eve of Saturday's summit, Kolsenichenko, the Crimean lawmaker, suggested that such militias were needed to resist what he characterized as a "fascist rebellion prepared by Western instructors." In an interview with Russia's state-run paper of record on Friday, he posed a rhetorical question: "If I were to tell you that after the opposition comes to power&#8230;Nazi terrorist groups will appear on the border with Russia, would you believe me?"
> 
> Many of the people at the rally in Sevastopol were not just ready to believe. They were convinced of the imminent nationalist invasion. What scared them most were the right-wing political parties and militant groups that have played a role in Ukraine's revolution. "What do you think they're going to do with all those weapons they seized from police in Kiev? They're going to come here and make war," said Sergei Bochenko, who identified himself as the commander of a local militia group in Sevastopol called the Southern Russian Cossack Battalion.
> 
> In preparation, he said, his group of several hundred men had armed themselves with assault rifles and begun to train for battle. "There's not a chance in hell we're going to accept the rule of that fascist scum running around in Kiev with swastikas," he said. That may be overstating the case. Nowhere in Ukraine has the uprising involved neo-Nazi groups, and no swastikas have appeared on the revolution's insignia. But every one of the dozen or so people TIME spoke to in Sevastopol was certain that the revolt was run by fascists, most likely on the payroll of the U.S. State Department. That message has long been propagated in Russian state-run media, which millions of people in the Crimea and eastern Ukraine rely on for information.
> 
> Read more: Crimea: The Russian Stronghold in Ukraine Ready to Fight the Revolution | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2014/02/23/th...paring-to-fight-the-revolution/#ixzz2uAVXST00


It is interesting to note time seems to be denying both that the US through its 5 billion slush fund was paying each protestors 50$ a day plus meals and second that the Maiden groups are known far right "fascist" neonazis.

Fascist isn't a bad word to fascists btw.

note average income in Ukraine is 3000$ per year so people could make equiv to their annual income in 60 days.

and whats this from a ccouple months ago

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...=wW3d2RUVzjsbudACFYI_Bg&bvm=bv.61725948,d.aWc



> it was "armed thugs" (hired mercenaries) - and not police -who arrived in black helicopters and started killing protesters en masse.


----------



## inceptor

Will said:


> hWilliam Hague warns Russia not to intervene in Ukraine | World news | theguardian.com
> 
> Wow. A little unexpect. Can you imagine that, that is like Russia telling the UK to not interfere in Ireland or Scotland.


If I was Putin, I would be scared. The pres did the same thing to Syria and look what happened there!


----------



## ekim

All I will say is this, the people fight with the thugs from the government and government NEVER does any of their own fighting, it's always the people getting hurt/killed. If they want to actually win the fight, then those in government must be the ones to die. To fight each other on behalf of the government just means the government lives to continue causing the problems! Could it happen here, hell yes. I just hope if it does start here that those in government pay the price for causing the problems in the first place!


----------



## Will2

ekim said:


> All I will say is this, the people fight with the thugs from the government and government NEVER does any of their own fighting, it's always the people getting hurt/killed. If they want to actually win the fight, then those in government must be the ones to die. To fight each other on behalf of the government just means the government lives to continue causing the problems! Could it happen here, hell yes. I just hope if it does start here that those in government pay the price for causing the problems in the first place!


heh. Canada is threatening RUSSIA with sanctions... Russia is G8.... Canada threatens sanctions if Russia disrupts peace in Ukraine as U.S. warns sending troops would be ?grave mistake? | National Post

the largest russian naval base for the black sea fleet is located there alredy, you don't thing there are "troops" there or troops going there?

to put this in perspective 1/3rd of the whole canadian military is already in ukraine.. and canada can only field 1/7th of that number of troops at any one time ,...

also this isn't about peace it is somewhat about the conditions in ukraine..who wants to wage war against ukraine?

this is about protecting people there are people canada is supporting that appeared to commit extrajudicial execution of previous members of the legitimate government and 4 in 5 members of parliament don't have safe access to parliament.. is that NATO's democracy... the same staged elections that occured in afghanistan and iraq.

what has occured in kiev has to been to some extent by people who used violence to disrupt police rule. now conditions may be another matter perhaps however once again these methods of creating peace through paramilitaries that beat and execute people on whim as seen in libya also seems to scream that the previous police that must put the most brutal governments to shame.

although I think there are legitimate concerns... the fog of war in effect here and sheer insult of the western propaganda machine is disguting and tarnishes the legitimacy in the process.

They are doing what they are doing... however we should feel no need to insert lies in all this or manipulate the internal process of ukraine through propaganda, the world deserves the truth.

If war were to break out the ability to trust any information that was sourced to western media would issued if even before conflict they were lying and spinning.


----------



## Will2

Ukraine protests. Êèåâ 18 ëþòîãî | Óêðàèíñêàÿ ïðàâäà


----------



## Will2




----------



## Will2

wow still some heavy images of what occured and is going on






so much cultural genocide going on.


----------



## Will2

wow first the russian flag being raised and the ukranian flag being take down

now


> Russian military vehicles, at least in small numbers, were deployed Tuesday in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol


perhaps they are still within the leased area.

mad ma...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ea-city-against-fascist-threat-from-Kiev.html

They are forming their own security service.



> SBU is a successor of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic's Branch of the Soviet KGB


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Service_of_Ukraine

although if there is a sign up list.. what would stop the sbu from using that list to know who is a threat?



> the city would guarantee the wages of officers from the Berkut riot police unit, which the post-revolutionary parliament in Kiev has voted to disband.


retro---machine

19-02-2014, 22:01

According to the SBU, activists have gained access to 1.5 thousand guns and 100 thousand cartridges.

"We are witnessing purposeful violence, arsons, and murders, hostage-taking and heartening. Fire arms are being used for it. These are not signs of terrorism - these are real terrorist acts!" the statement says.

The Ukrainian Security Service, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Ministry of Defence, Border Service and central and local authorities will take part in the operation. The Ukrainian President has been informed about it.

source: http://udf.by/

"heartening" I have the feeling that this have been lost in translation "make more cheerful or confident."

http://rt.com/news/weapons-protesters-kiev-police-745/



> he recent events in Ukraine have shown "the escalation of violence and a massive use of firearms by the extremist groups. In many parts of the country, public authorities, military installations and depots with munitions are being seized. Court buildings are burning, the vandals are destroying private property and killing peaceful civilians,"


now forward two days..

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/uswo...cle_64d1fa57-0151-5a01-b775-82d9b9ecebce.html





> he European Union imposed sanctions on those deemed responsible for the violence





> In an effort to defuse the situation, the national parliament late Thursday passed a measure that would prohibit an "anti-terrorist operation"


well lets see what caused the violence....

now it could have been worse but wouldn't a failure to act be against maintaining rule of law and public order where murders are heartening were happening.

back one day


> Violence escalated on the 18th of February after Right Sector Neo-Nazi rioters and thugs attempted to take over the Ukrainian parliament building (Verkhovna Rada). They were repelled by the anti-riot police. According to RT "the move came despite the agreement on amnesty finally reached between the government and the opposition."
> 
> The rioters then stormed and looted the nearby unprotected office of the ruling Party of Regions, also setting it on fire. One office worker was later found dead in the devastated building, with reports saying he died from smoke inhalation. The clashes soon grew bloody, with footage showing masked rioters firing rifles and pistols at the police in central Kiev and reports describing dead protesters with gunshot wounds. (RT, February 20, 2014)
> source: http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukrain...ilians-as-a-pretext-for-regime-change/5370705









> at least 21 protesters were killed in the space of a few hours"&#8230;"&#8230; ten corpses were laid out on the pavement beneath the awning of a cafe on the northern edge of Independence Square, where thousands of demonstrators are still camped. At least three of the bodies displayed single bullet wounds to the heads.
> 
> The report suggests that the deaths were the result of a precise targeted killing operation pointing to the work of professional snipers:
> 
> One demonstrator, who gave his name as Andreiy, carried in one body on a green military stretcher. "He died between 90 minutes and two hours ago," he told a Telegraph reporter. "These are all live rounds. You can see what they do. He and all the others were shot in the head, the neck or the heart. None were shot anywhere else like in the legs." (Telegraph)
> 
> There were reports of snipers on rooftops using automatic weapons, but the identity of the snipers remains


who was the sniper(s)?

1.? http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/uk...rotesters-detain-beat-suspected-sniper-n36196

how does yanukovych link to that man, so as for him to be responsible for the deaths?

http://www.dw.de/sniper-fire-around...ares-again-in-ukraine-capital-kyiv/a-17444506

now here is the weird thing.. after prohibiting the antiterror operation... they disband the riot police berkut and set to establish "anti terrorist police"

whose murders is yanukovych being tried for... at the ICC?



> Upon the launching of the anti-terrorist operation on February 19, police forces became actively involved in clearing out the Maidan and dismantling the barricades, leading to a confrontation between police forces and protesters.
> 
> While live ammunition was used by police against Neo-Nazi gunmen, the Western media acknowledges that the riot police used rubber bullets in its confrontation with rioters in Maidan square.


This raises the point, in a fog of war come SHTF or pre-SHTF..how will you know what actually happened, what is more important is knowing what is important. That is essential information for your survival, as opposed to information being true or not true. Government will lie, and media can be linked to political motivations.

human rights abuse... the people are beating a suspect

http://www.news.nom.co/ukraine-protesters-detain-beat-suspected-8137294-news/

and parading him through the streets.

if anyone should be sent immediately to the ICC it is that man or atleast refuge somewhere.

In most countries armed insurrection against government isn't legal or democratic.

none the less you can understand that rule by force can be instigated by oppression however it is just that rule by force.

It shouldn't be passed off as anything else.

how does this man link to the president?
2. http://ruptly.tv/vod/view/9828/ukraine-kiev-police-detain-suspected-sniper

back to what lead to violence... europe said don't use force..



> We must be guided only by the interests of the people, this is our only chance to save people's lives," he said, adding he would continue to fulfill his duties as long as he had the people's trust.
> 
> Another influential member of the ruling party, Serhiy Tyhipko, said both Yanukovych and opposition leaders had "completely lost control of the situation."
> 
> "Their inaction is leading to the strengthening of opposition and human victims," the Interfax news agency reported him saying


from what i have seen Yanukovych has showed far more restrain than western governments would.

rioting has a life sentence in Canada. firing a gun or throwing lethal objects would get you shot.

I'm not sure about other peoples neck of the woods.

you don't follow police instructions to move, they arrest you, you resist arrest they will kill you if needed.

there is a fine line between protest and blocking roads for long periods of time. It is a right of way. If you start endagering other people, forcibly occupying buldings etc... not sure if that would still be protest.

too little force was used not too much.

the validity of a coupe is an entirely different issue.

if the footage and info is valid... then there is a definate attempt to decieve and misrepresent what occured by western media.

he has pretty saggy eyes for a sharpshooter.

you would think he would have very well mannered eyes not saggy eyes. who is he?

If you pay careful attention at the start of this video.. an actual bullet hits a tree "behind" the "protesters" http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/20/sniper-fire-brings-disturbing-new-dimension-to-ukraine-violence/

check the tree between 1 and 2 seconds.

the bullet hits between all those "protestors"...

they later get shot from, an unknown direction..thinking it is coming from the police they are chasing.

at 8 seconds the "white object" rubber bullet perhaps bounces off the other side of the tree from the angle of their lines and hits his sheil.

what I'm quite astounded by throughout this whole thing the people armed for medieval war with atleast 1500 guns and 100000 rounds of ammo are refereed to as demonstrators by the announcer throughout.... what are they demonstrating, ineffective policing?

In that same footage you have "protestors weilding rifles firing at?" well judging by the tree being hit in the middle of all the other "protestors".... freindly fire, bad aim or intentional or both..



> re in possession of fire arms. On February 19, Itar Tass quoting official sources confirmed that "Nine Ukrainian law enforcers died of gunshot wounds. 371 policemen turned for medical aid in departmental medical institutions, 349 of them were taken to hospital."
> 
> ,,,,
> 
> ukraine ""protesters capture[d]"" 67 police as brief truce comes to a bloody end with at least 70 killed in latest clashes"
> 
> ...
> 
> "three policemen were killed Thursday [Feb 20] and 28 suffered gunshot wounds, Interior Ministry spokesman Serhiy Burlakov told the AP"
> 
> ...
> 
> EuroNews quoting official government sources said that police were also being targeted by unidentified snipers.





> According to the Guardian, armed gunmen belonging to the Svoboda party "prowled the upper floors of the hotel [Ukraina] with pistols, saying they were looking for police snipers."


shouldn't they have them?

who was the guardian source that has svoboda party gunmen at the hotel?


----------



## Will2

I'm not going to read too deeply into what this means; however,

BBC News - Russian parliament approves troop deployment in Ukraine


----------



## Slippy

Will,
Honest question...do you consider yourself to be an anarchist?


----------



## Will2

no. I consider myself a legalist in a world of poor legislators and corrupt governments.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/chinas-agricultural-deals-with-ukraine-in-jeopardy/

I am politically of minarchist persuasion and a moderate. Minarchism is a form of libertarianism not anarchism. Likewise my political position jurisidictionally varies based on the services that that particular jurisdiction is responsible for.

I do believe in equal rights though, and those guided by reason.

In that sense I support rule by the wise.

Philospher kings know how rule should apply.

I'm not for totalitarianism, I support liberty within reason.

I believe reason should be guided by those fundamental human rights any good person should be aware of and all others who fight against those values should be summarily executed.

I am a freedom fighter not an anarchist.

I would however say, i am freedom.

There are a lot of things that really don't matter as far as government should be concerned. Totalitarianism is overreach and the death of the human spirit that should be governments task to foster.

The spirit matters not the life.

None the less SLIPPY how does this relate to the thread, would it not be more appropriate to PM me than ask a completely unrelated question in here?


----------



## Smitty901

Anarchy a society without a publicly enforced government. Not a bad dream but highly unworkable.
The concept of no power or authority over gets to be more of a problem as the numbers of ideas introduced increases .
Enter some form of government. We had it right LIMIT the power of Government put checks and balance in place. We fired the king and did it our way.
For the most part it was a struggle we fought a war among ourselves over it but we made it work.
Then we got lazy we stumbled but kept it going. 
Then we elected a King and started heading right back to the place we left.
We need to fire the King and all his staff and get back to basics


----------



## inceptor

So Will, you believe in non-violent freedom fighting?


----------



## Will2

I think that is a bit oxymoronic but once again, I think these would be better left to an introduce me thread or pm.

A little off topic with this pre-SHTF thread.

I also believe in diety and am a dieist,although I believe the laws of nature are gods intervention and there are no limits on that...anything is possible since observation is not absolute we do not know the full extent of possibility, we reasonably outside that non constraint act within what we do understand and know..

just to put this back on track.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/02/chinas-agricultural-deals-with-ukraine-in-jeopardy/

"Until philosophers rule as kings or those who are now called kings and leading men genuinely and adequately philosophise, that is, until political power and philosophy entirely coincide, while the many natures who at present pursue either one exclusively are forcibly prevented from doing so, cities will have no rest from evils,... nor, I think, will the human race." (Republic 473c-d)

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldn...ne-troops-authorized-20140301,0,3015804.story


----------



## inceptor

Will said:


> I think that is a bit oxymoronic but once again, I think these would be better left to an introduce me thread or pm.


I was just curious considering your views on Americans with guns.


----------



## Will2

hopefully not pointed at me followed by a trigger pull?

Weapons arn't a problem, its peoples misuse of weapons that can be.

responsible public carry is also a consideration. some people feel threatened by peoples carrying weapons in public especially if loaded because it can be a public safety risk. further if people are out to get you are carrying guns it is an immenent threat to personal security.

reason needs to be used contextually in how you use and transport weapons to insure public safety.

the same rationality applies to explosives, radioactive and other hazmat.

it shouldn't be about access, it should be about how that fits with the world to insure public safety is maintained as much as can be reasonable given the overall environment.


however back to Ukraine.


----------



## inceptor

Will said:


> hopefully not pointed at me followed by a trigger pull?


Isn't that why you bought the helmet? Just in case?



Will said:


> Weapons arn't a problem its peoples misuse of weapons that can be.


So you aren't anti-gun, your just against Americans with guns?


----------



## Arizona Infidel

Will said:


> no. I consider myself a legalist in a world of poor legislators and corrupt governments.
> 
> China?s Agricultural Deals with Ukraine in Jeopardy | The Diplomat
> 
> I am politically of minarchist persuasion and a moderate. Minarchism is a form of libertarianism not anarchism. Likewise my political position jurisidictionally varies based on the services that that particular jurisdiction is responsible for.
> 
> I do believe in equal rights though, and those guided by reason.
> 
> In that sense I support rule by the wise.
> 
> Philospher kings know how rule should apply.
> 
> I'm not for totalitarianism, I support liberty within reason.
> 
> I believe reason should be guided by those fundamental human rights any good person should be aware of and all others who fight against those values should be summarily executed.
> 
> I am a freedom fighter not an anarchist.
> 
> I would however say, i am freedom.
> 
> There are a lot of things that really don't matter as far as government should be concerned. Totalitarianism is overreach and the death of the human spirit that should be governments task to foster.
> 
> The spirit matters not the life.
> 
> None the less SLIPPY how does this relate to the thread, would it not be more appropriate to PM me than ask a completely unrelated question in here?


So in other words you are for a monarchy that is a benevolent RULER. You are a subject and happy to be so, as long as your overlord rules you the way you wish to be ruled.

You are confused as to the meaning of being Free.


----------



## Will2

inceptor said:


> Isn't that why you bought the helmet? Just in case? So you aren't anti-gun, your just against Americans with guns?


No. Its not an American, non American thing. I'm not anti gun. I am for responsible gun use. The helmet is part of my prepping gear which includes ballistics protection. It is part of my fitness gear also, so that if I need to wear a helmet I am use to it. I feel as though you are mining personal information at this point so if I don't respond to any more questions in this thread it is because I feel you are detracting from the thread topic. Ask me via pm if you have anymore questions for me.


----------



## Will2

Arizona Infidel said:


> So in other words you are for a monarchy that is a benevolent RULER. You are a subject and happy to be so, as long as your overlord rules you the way you wish to be ruled.
> 
> You are confused as to the meaning of being Free.


No. Read plato. I support equality based on individuals personal merits and fundamental human rights.

Like the above kindly refrain from posting questions about myself in this thread that is "pre-shtf" as it applies to ukraine not "about me".

I havn't confused anything. Improve your paraphrasing but not here. Kindly keep on topic.


----------



## inceptor

First this threads title is The face of pre-SHTF ... One thing that would happen is gun confiscation. Attitude towards this can help that cause.



Will said:


> responsible public carry is also a consideration. some people feel threatened by peoples carrying weapons in public especially if loaded because it can be a public safety risk. further if people are out to get you are carrying guns it is an immenent threat to personal security.
> 
> reason needs to be used contextually in how you use and transport weapons to insure public safety.
> 
> the same rationality applies to explosives, radioactive and other hazmat.
> 
> it shouldn't be about access, it should be about how that fits with the world to insure public safety is maintained as much as can be reasonable given the overall environment.
> 
> however back to Ukraine.


Being a Canadian you don't have the 2nd amendment. But it seems that you are saying the 2nd should be abolished and few should be allowed to have guns because people may feel threatened by them. So by seriously restricting guns you would be insuring public safety.


----------



## Will2

inceptor said:


> First this threads title is The face of pre-SHTF ... One thing that would happen is gun confiscation. Attitude towards this can help that cause.
> 
> Being a Canadian you don't have the 2nd amendment. But it seems that you are saying the 2nd should be abolished and few should be allowed to have guns because people may feel threatened by them. So by seriously restricting guns you would be insuring public safety.


Dude first off don't type cast me. Second, I have the ancestorial right to bear arms that was granted to my family and clan.

Sadly you are wrong. I do have the right to use guns. As far as the federal government having laws regulating use of guns that is their matter. 
This isn't about me though this is a topic about the ukrainian situation.
My consitutional right preempts the Canadian Constitution and has the same force and effect and cannot be retracted unless the Canada Act is repealed.

I am partly Ethnically English I am not a Canadian National, I hold legal Canadian Citizenship and Commonwealth Citizenship. I have German ethnicity also, and French and Dutch. I was born befor Canada was a nation. Of my own accord I would be a British protected person at law, if not self recongized. However I am me, we can leave it at this and save the book for never.

Kindly stop turning this thread into one about me. I will not be replying to anymore ad hominem creations.

People having guns is fine... they just need to use them responsibly, people who can't shouldn't have them. 
Stealing guns from military bases as done in Ukraine is problematic because it is theft. Blanket restriction of firearms is not sound, it is authoritarian policy without sound judgement behind it. Cars are dangerous and cause deaths too so is food, you don't confiscate that stuff so why guns?


----------



## Arizona Infidel

Will said:


> No. Read plato. I support equality based on individuals personal merits and fundamental human rights.
> 
> Like the above kindly refrain from posting questions about myself in this thread that is "pre-shtf" as it applies to ukraine not "about me".
> 
> I havn't confused anything. Improve your paraphrasing but not here. Kindly keep on topic.


I said exactly what I meant to say will. I will also post anything I want anywhere I want and don't give a shit if you care or not. 
The face of pre-SHTF is much different to you than it is to an American. Pre-SHTF to an American that's paying attention will be the attempted removal of freedoms and liberties you don't have. This is what is amazing to me. Canadians always want to stick their noses into the business of America and sit on what they perceive as a high horse, but they don't even have a clue as to what they are talking about.


----------



## inceptor

Will said:


> Dude first off don't type cast me. Second, I have the ancestorial right to bear arms that was granted to my family and clan.
> 
> Sadly you are wrong. I do have the right to use guns. As far as the federal government having laws regulating use of guns that is their matter.
> This isn't about me though this is a topic about the ukrainian situation.
> My consitutional right preempts the Canadian Constitution and has the same force and effect and cannot be retracted unless the Canada Act is repealed.


I have not type cast you. I am not anti-gun either. In fact, if I hadn't lost all my guns in a boating accident, I would still be a proud owner.

I was recalling your comments about Americans with guns and decided to ask.


----------



## Arizona Infidel

Will said:


> Dude first off don't type cast me. Second, I have the ancestorial right to bear arms that was granted to my family and clan.
> 
> Sadly you are wrong. I do have the right to use guns. As far as the federal government having laws regulating use of guns that is their matter.
> This isn't about me though this is a topic about the ukrainian situation.
> My consitutional right preempts the Canadian Constitution and has the same force and effect and cannot be retracted unless the Canada Act is repealed.
> 
> I am partly Ethnically English I am not a Canadian National, I hold legal Canadian Citizenship and Commonwealth Citizenship. I have German ethnicity also, and French and Dutch. I was born befor Canada was a nation. Of my own accord I would be a British protected person at law, if not self recongized. However I am me, we can leave it at this and save the book for never.
> 
> Kindly stop turning this thread into one about me. I will not be replying to anymore ad hominem creations.
> 
> People having guns is fine... they just need to use them responsibly, people who can't shouldn't have them.
> Stealing guns from military bases as done in Ukraine is problematic because it is theft. Blanket restriction of firearms is not sound, it is authoritarian policy without sound judgement behind it. Cars are dangerous and cause deaths too so is food, you don't confiscate that stuff so why guns?


No, you don't have a "right" to own and use guns. You have the PRIVILEGE of having and using guns. 
PRIVILEGES are granted by your government. RIGHTS are granted by GOD.


----------



## Will2

Arizona Infidel said:


> No, you don't have a "right" to own and use guns. You have the PRIVILEGE of having and using guns.
> PRIVILEGES are granted by your government. RIGHTS are granted by GOD.


no idea what you are talking about brother. don't worry about explaining either.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms

The right is from the head of the executive it is equivalent to an executive order in force of law. Some Americans raised arms against the Monarch. None the less my family had that right bestowed and is embeded in the constitution under ancestral rights. I have no weapon prohibitions. I also don't smoke marijuana so stop insinuating it.

"Subjects' Arms.

That the Subjects which are Protestants may have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law." It doesn't say solely by statue of parliament, it says "by law."

Read the whole thing.. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/WillandMarSess2/1/2

http://www.rkba.ca/legal_basis_for_rkba.html

read it before running your mouth derailing the thread.

THEIR ANCIENT RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES -- rights are law.



> In the three preceding articles we have taken a short view of the principal absolute rights which appertain to every Englishman. But in vain would these rights be declared, ascertained, and protected by the dead letter of the laws, if the constitution had provided no other method to secure their actual enjoyment. It has therefore established certain other auxiliary subordinate rights of the subject, which serve principally as barriers to protect and maintain inviolate the three great and primary rights, of personal security, personal liberty, and private property. These are,
> 
> [1 ... 4]
> 5. The fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defense, suitable to their condition and degree, and such as are allowed by law. Which is also declared by the same statute I W. & M. st.2. c. 2. [English Bill of Rights] and is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.
> 
> ...
> ...
> 
> And we have seen that these rights consist, primarily, in the free enjoyment of personal security, of personal liberty, and of private property. So long as these remain inviolate, the subject is perfectly free; for every species of compulsive tyranny and oppression must act in opposition to one or other of these rights, having no other object upon which it can possibly be employed.
> 
> 29. Except as otherwise provided by this Act, all Laws in force in Canada, Nova Scotia, or New Brunswick at the Union, and all Courts of Civil and Criminal Jurisdiction, and all legal Commissions, Powers, and Authorities, and all Officers, Judicial, Administrative, and Ministerial, existing therein at the Union, shall continue in Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick respectively, as if the Union had not been made; subject nevertheless (except with respect to such as are enacted by or exist under Acts of the Parliament of Great Britain or of the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland,) to be repealed, abolished, or altered by the Parliament of Canada, or by the Legislature of the respective Province, according to the Authority of the Parliament or of that Legislature under this Act.
> 
> s Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948
> 
> Article 3.
> 
> Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
> Article 17.
> 
> (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
> (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.


charter
6. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed as denying the existence of any other rights or freedoms that exist in Canada.

As noted by Blair J.A., academic commentary lends support to the conclusion that "existing" means "unextinguished" rather than exercisable at a certain time in history... Once a statute has been validly enacted, it must be given effect. If its necessary effect is to abridge or entirely abrogate a common law right, then that is the effect that the courts must give it...We would conclude then that the Crown has failed to discharge its burden of proving extinguishment.

read this too: http://www.lowe.ca/Rick/FirearmsLegislation/RightToArms.htm The right predates 1689.

the firearms act exists to insure safe use and storage of firearms not prohibit ownership. The prohibition of classes of weapons to classes of people is principly public safety related. They are regulations not extinguishments.

4. The purpose of this Act is
(a) to provide, notably by sections 5 to 16 and 54 to 73, for the issuance of
(i) licences for firearms and authorizations and registration certificates for prohibited firearms or restricted firearms, under which persons may possess firearms in circumstances *that would otherwise* constitute an offence under subsection 91(1), 92(1), 93(1) or 95(1) of the Criminal Code,
(ii) licences and authorizations under which persons may possess prohibited weapons, restricted weapons, prohibited devices and prohibited ammunition in circumstances that would otherwise constitute an offence under subsection 91(2), 92(2) or 93(1) of the Criminal Code, and
(iii) licences under which persons may sell, barter or give cross-bows in circumstances *that would otherwise* constitute an offence under subsection 97(1) of the Criminal Code;
(b) to authorize,
(i) notably by sections 5 to 12 and 54 to 73, the manufacture of or offer to manufacture, and
(ii) notably by sections 21 to 34 and 54 to 73, the transfer of or offer to transfer,
firearms, prohibited weapons, restricted weapons, prohibited devices, ammunition and prohibited ammunition in circumstances that would otherwise constitute an offence under subsection 99(1), 100(1) or 101(1) of the Criminal Code; and

(c) to authorize, notably by sections 35 to 73, the importation or exportation of firearms, prohibited weapons, restricted weapons, prohibited devices, ammunition, prohibited ammunition and components and parts designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into automatic firearms in circumstances *that would otherwise* constitute an offence under subsection 103(1) or 104(1) of the Criminal Code.


----------



## Arizona Infidel

Will said:


> no idea what you are talking about brother. don't worry about explaining either.


That is what I was pointing out to you. You have no idea what any of us are talking about. Now go put on your helmet and go smoke a bowl.


----------



## Will2

So it seems things have been taken out of the civil sphere and into the martial sphere and state powers.

Cooler heads perhaps...

none the less people are saying one shot could start wwIII

with people creating an ultimatum for 10pm EST for a token surrender of two ukranian navy ships to militants in crimea.


----------



## Slippy

Will said:


> Dude first off don't type cast me. Second, I have the ancestorial right to bear arms that was granted to my family and clan.
> 
> I was born befor Canada was a nation. Of my own accord I would be a British protected person at law, if not self recongized. However I am me, we can leave it at this and save the book for never.


So Will, when did Canada become a nation? Also what clan are you in? Maybe we know some of the same people?


----------



## Slippy

inceptor said:


> In fact, if I hadn't lost all my guns in a boating accident, I would still be a proud owner.


Damn boats!


----------



## Will2

Slippy said:


> So Will, when did Canada become a nation? Also what clan are you in? Maybe we know some of the same people?


Kindly stay on topic. 
Here is a link for you to learn about Canadian history.
The Constitution

western news report that militants in crimea may escalate with use of force if ukrainian forces of the turchinov forces do not surrender by 10pm EST.


----------



## Slippy

Will said:


> Kindly stay on topic.
> Here is a link for you to learn about Canadian history.
> The Constitution


You never answered what year you were born? Also, what about your clan?

(You brought it up so fair game)


----------



## bad

The hatred for the russians goes back to at least the 1930's when Stalin forcibly starved 4 million Ukrainians, hardly any family was not untouched. This was a time that their land was growing record harvests and the crops were going to the mother country for export. 

If russia tries to control the steppes of the Ukraine there will be an ongoing civil war rather than just this short term event. There are probably still thousands of M44s floating around. And millions of empty wine bottles just waiting to be filled with gasoline and soap.


----------



## Will2

bad said:


> The hatred for the russians goes back to at least the 1930's when Stalin forcibly starved 4 million Ukrainians, hardly any family was not untouched. This was a time that their land was growing record harvests and the crops were going to the mother country for export.
> 
> If russia tries to control the steppes of the Ukraine there will be an ongoing civil war rather than just this short term event. There are probably still thousands of M44s floating around. And millions of empty wine bottles just waiting to be filled with gasoline and soap.


Curious youtube hasn't had a new video on ukraine or crimea for atleast the last more than an hour I think youtube is blocking both searches..perhaps a government censorship order. I've been following this isue for days, with constant new videos uploaded. There was a spike over the last day of diluting the not aligned with the western medias videos and western version videos from previous days news reals being uploaded to drown out new videos. then today blackout sometime around 8:30pm (which dates back to around 8pm) est an hour and a half behind the western created ultimatum deadline.

I made this video which also didn't show up for those terms although they were used as keywords. something is going on at youtue with an hour before the ultimatum.






I have been to Kyiv before and I cannot imagine a war there.

I had the feeling it in itself was enough to discourage NATO invasion of the USSR.

Here is the point here...\

The revelution will not be televised or on youtube... the revolution will be on tv screens controlled by your government . tm.

This also had me look up government demands of censorship on youtube and there are thousands of videos censored for what are deemed against the interest of the state.

In shtf this situation prooves Joe Blows won't have a clue what is really going on.

and these videos popped up since me questioning the censorship. mine hasn't appeared but these have for a search of "ukraine"

note that mesh is anti russian and for neoliberalism. meanwhile the upcoming event seems obvious.... something fishy is going on.

newsloop business was stated as being upped 32 minutes ago but it wasn't there 10 minutes ago.

meanwhile the senate foreign intelligence video is due to start at....10pm the same time as the ultimatum. but 12 hours later...

Putin Visits Simferopol
by Mesh Frequency4 minutes ago
Crowd cheer their new master.
NEW
Thumbnail 0:43 Watch Later
Toyota Sees 2014 Europe Sales At More Than 865,000 Units
by Newsloop Business32 minutes ago
Toyota Motor Corporation expects to sell more than 865000 vehicles in Europe this year, up from 847530 in 2013, helped by a ...
NEWHD
Thumbnail Watch Later
Joint Subcommittee Hearing: Iran's Support for Terrorism Worldwide
by House Foreign Affairs CommitteeStarts: 4 March 2014 10:00
Joint Subcommittee Hearing: Iran's Support for Terrorism Worldwide Subcommittee on Terrorism, Nonproliferation, and Trade, ...
UPCOMING EVENTNEW

/// just after 911 they started appearing normally again somewhat.... I still think something is going on.


----------



## Deebo

Sorry Will, I cant watch any more of your videos, UNTIL YOU PUT YOUR SHIRT BACK ON. No offense, I am just that way.


----------



## inceptor

And he looks so stoned that he can't even stand up in most of his vids. :lol:

My favorite line of his is where he said "Americans seem to think they need guns". Yessiree Bob, that is a fact. We certainly do. 

He got his helmet in case he runs into "Americans in Canada with guns or something." But you won't need wear your helmet unless you just want to, we won't be invading Canada. It's just too damn cold there.


----------



## Will2

American feet on the ground in Eastern Ukraine






putting down pro russian demonstrations.

We know that blackwater and its incarnates are very close with the USdod and the state department.

the fact they are americans using force to put down ukrainian internal decisions is not unlike Russia funding mercenaries to fight in Kiev or Lviv.

The US has no grounds to call for people to stay out of ukraines internal affairs, if it is allowing a us company they do business with and have legally registered there to attack ukrainians who are protesting against internal ukranian matters.

here is a western news story on this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lk-U-S-mercenary-outfit-deployed-Donetsk.html

note they are also equiped the same as the I think 80th airborn rapid response unit.. which is us military.

I've also raised previously that USSOF have operated without identification in the past even in civies and encourage aussies to do the same in afghanistan.

it could actually be USSOF.

this is another,... who is it.

If military is being used to put down the "independent decisions of ukrainians."

all dialogue is questionable as it equates use of military force, martial rule against the protestors.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/03/300-blackwater-mercs-lands-in-ukraine-2910184.html

Of course what is the intent of the mobilization?






http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...reated-artificially-geopolitical-reasons.html
and from RT

http://rt.com/news/popular-uprising-eastern-ukraine-314/


----------



## Slippy

Will,
If you can, please sum up your ramblings in a couple of sentences. I have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## jro1




----------



## Will2

Will said:


> American feet on the ground in Eastern Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> putting down pro russian demonstrations.
> 
> We know that blackwater and its incarnates are very close with the USdod and the state department.
> 
> the fact they are americans using force to put down ukrainian internal decisions is not unlike Russia funding mercenaries to fight in Kiev or Lviv.
> 
> The US has no grounds to call for people to stay out of ukraines internal affairs, if it is allowing a us company they do business with and have legally registered there to attack ukrainians who are protesting against internal ukranian matters.
> 
> here is a western news story on this.
> 
> Are 'Blackwater' now active in Ukraine? Videos spark talk that U.S. mercenary outfit has been deployed to Donetsk | Mail Online
> 
> note they are also equiped the same as the I think 80th airborn rapid response unit.. which is us military.
> 
> I've also raised previously that USSOF have operated without identification in the past even in civies and encourage aussies to do the same in afghanistan.
> 
> it could actually be USSOF.
> 
> this is another,... who is it.
> 
> If military is being used to put down the "independent decisions of ukrainians."
> 
> all dialogue is questionable as it equates use of military force, martial rule against the protestors.
> 
> 300 Blackwater Mercs Lands In Ukraine? | Alternative
> 
> Of course what is the intent of the mobilization?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tension in Ukraine builds as convoy of military trucks carrying soldiers heads for Crimea | Mail Online
> and from RT
> 
> http://rt.com/news/popular-uprising-eastern-ukraine-314/


Jro1

That is a good point. If the above were happening in US and Canada.

The Russians would be putting down pro american protests in British Columbia and complaining pro-america militia were operating in Alberta, after the elected government was overthrown by rioters in Ottawa that removed English as an official language.

If we arn't aware of what is happening elsewhere, then we won't be prepared should it happen closer to home.


----------



## Will2

This is an interesting story...

russia is complaining of lawlessness in the east as the vote in crimea nears.

meanwhile nato awacs planes are being used in ukraine.

and...

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-mp-abducted-threatened-882/


----------



## jro1

leave it to Russia to completely occupy a county without firing a single shot!


----------



## Will2

well shots were fired.

However, there is no occupation by the Russian Federation.

The coupe government in Kiev stated they will not intervene in Crimeas vote, arranged by the Crimean Parliament on independence.


----------



## Will2

another tense day - on the eve of the crimean independence vote

moves out of the crimean peninsula by a mobile company was reported "to protect infrastructure from terrorist attack"

likewise individuals in western ukraine were pegged with targetting russian communications satellites.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-attacks-television-satellites-990/

Tommorow is a relatively large day....

With the autonomous crimean republic vote on seperation from ukraine

Meanwhile in the East there is another planned pro-russian demonstration in Donetsk

meanwhile billions in funding into the pro western regime by the NATO block with another billion slated from the US and over 200 million from Canada amongst others.


----------



## oddapple

This whole thing is nothing but a money fraud and grab. The only thing that matters is how much damage can that kenyan turd do to us by it. There is nothing tense about it right now except whether or not omuzzy will be short fizzeled on crashing the dollar and getting us with a bomb.


----------



## Will2

oddapple said:


> This whole thing is nothing but a money fraud and grab. The only thing that matters is how much damage can that kenyan turd do to us by it. There is nothing tense about it right now except whether or not omuzzy will be short fizzeled on crashing the dollar and getting us with a bomb.


I'm not sure what kenyan turd you are talking abou etc... can you give more info on this

Cyber attack are gearing up with three NATO websites taken down today if indeed this wasn't an internal nato action false flag??

http://rt.com/news/nato-websites-ddos-ukraine-146/
and

presidential website of russia..

http://rt.com/news/kremlin-site-attack-hackers-790/


----------



## oddapple

Yes, it is hard to figure considering the credibility of the source.
Barry Sotero is from kenya. Mrs sotero called it his "home country". He made up a fake name and it suits because everything about him is fake. He is currently our most aggressive enemy. Haha yeah, our so-called "leader"


----------



## Will2

oddapple said:


> Yes, it is hard to figure considering the credibility of the source.
> Barry Sotero is from kenya. Mrs sotero called it his "home country". He made up a fake name and it suits because everything about him is fake. He is currently our most aggressive enemy. Haha yeah, our so-called "leader"


I understand a little more about what you are saying, do you have yet more info on what you are saying?

oh and not quite the reaction I thought. Looks sortof melodramatic after crimea opted to join russia.

probably better off for most anyway.

this is another things to look at...

what would US troops do if protesters blocked their path?

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-east-military-block-198/

this is an interesting note..



> however, seven young people dressed in uniforms of the Ukrainian armed forces, but without shoulder straps, armed with Kalashnikov rifles with silencers, began to force the unit commander to "obey orders" to disperse locals and dismantle the barricades.


could these be members of the new ukrainian national gaurd --- commanding the military?






who are the young people in uniform commanding the officers?

why silencers?

note

Kalashnikov AK rifle with PBS silencer, as used by Soviet Spetsnaz

what it ukraines spets order the unit commanders?

http://rt.com/news/crimea-russian-special-forces-560/



> "Many of [our] guys have relatives there. I myself spend summer in Evpatoria," he said. "Many among us don't understand whom we are fighting for and against in Crimea."


----------



## Will2

SHTF.....ukraine style atleast for ethnic russians..

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-forced-resignation-nationalism-674/

.... state of civil war...

low scale right now

but one solidier was killed and one injured today.

Russia says the facility was actually turning to Crimea... while snipers that were not with the Russians shot inside the base and were detained by the Russians although one of the snipers was killed or escaped.

meanwhile the west is reporting it as Russian forces stormed the base?

So why two dramatically different stories?

And now Ukraine is moving to ban "massive demonstrations" making it an act of treason

the same sort of demonstrations that led to the coup that installed the current government?

hmm odd.

So how does this differ from the last government? well it seems to be the same except it is cracking down even harder on ethnic Russians.

And what is with physically attacking the head of the state media corporation.

This is equiv to a bunch of people beating up and forcing the resignation of CBC or PBS or the BBC.

however this is a noticable political issue even for staff at RT


----------



## Will2

just thought I'd update as things seem to be possible to escalate.

nato is moving thousands of troops to russias borders

the faction in kiev has said they will use lethal force against groups acting against kiev rule

and militias are being put together

the deadline is upon us to see if or what will happen

russia has been pushing for federalization....

oh and the leader of the ukraine communist party was beaten up by other parliamentarians in kiev.

oh and russia /or rather gazprom wants money up front

we already know that there is a fog ofwar many don't see... media stations being censored on their reporting..and that weird youtube blackout on the eve of the crimea vote...

there are forces at work.. just most of us really don't know what the game plan is.

if the gas goes off though that is a big deal.

it isn't over just yet but the game is one of hardlove by all sides..

if ever there was tourism industry for shtf preppers it would be ukraine right now...

the picture on this link really test a story of its own
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26984799


----------



## Will2

So things have hit a bit of an impasse...

not sure what to say.

Ukraine is saying that the Russian General staff special operations units / GRU are operating in eastern Ukraine.

seems almost like they wanted to be known if intel is correct as perhaps a response deterrent.

none the less I can't really see how Russia can allow being beaten by Ukraine since a large chunk of its economy has been sacrificed, these are big stakes.

I think Russia seriously needs to consider nuclear options -- that should sober people up.

Russia I think would be better off testing natos resolve with a nuclear gun in their hand.

I think though the idea will be letting things play out on the 25th of may...about a month from now.

the problem is that is giving nato time to prepare a response.

I am not sure what Russia is planning if anything, but I have the sense nato is considering military options.

It could be a very big occurrence over the 30 days coming. I really think we are witnessing a massive change in the status quo ante dium.

Russia definitely has cards but I think nato may be more intent with taking Russia out --- as Russia is now on the blacklist in the same family as Syria, and north korea, it is now in that axis of evil. Russia needs to move.. missile defence noose is closing in.

Russia needs to move big or expect nato breathing down its neck. undoubtedly though the Russians are far more intelligent than myself and will likely patiently make their plays to look out for the ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

there is a lot going on imo, far more than I care to write here.

Russia is both the dark horse and the contender.

Nato is brewing this no doubt.

I think the thing is here nato is 10 times the size of Russia .. its old allies even Ukraine now under nato control with only Syria embattled and north korea and a few other scattered former cis... and a more and more neutral china.

Russia has one major card though, and that is it nuclear weapons...

but that is unthinkable especially in an America where only frige lunatics build bomb shelters, and preppers are a hobby as opposed to part of civil defence preparations.

none the less... I think this could just play out for 30 days or so before getting a better idea of any new major developments.

http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?fromval=1&cid=22&frid=22&eid=147376


----------



## jro1

I don't think Nato has the stomach to take on Russia, NK, And china all at once! I'm sure china and NK will wear them down before even making an appearance on the Russian scene! just my thoughts!


----------



## inceptor

China is watching. Maybe that is the reason behind this:

To buoy shaky Ukrainian government, U.S. pledging aid and sending troops to E. Europe - The Washington Post


----------

