# Battery question



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Hi, is it okay to connect 6v rechargeable lantern batteries in parallel? I have never seen it done and Google didn't help answer my question. below is a pic of the exact battery I am looking at.









My local hardware store is selling 2 packs of these for $15. They claim to be 5 amp hours. My plan is to build a portable power box with an inverter. I would recharge them with either A/C or a small solar panel. These projects generally use a different type of battery though. The price and size is right but I don't want to waste time of effort if it's a bad idea.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Good question. Your idea seems logical to me, but I do not know enough about electricity.. If you knew an electrical engineer, or called a local university you may get a good answer.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

yes.... just make sure the wire will handle it


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

6v in parallel - Google Search


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> 6v in parallel - Google Search


This is the same stuff I googled. There is no mention I can find of the specific type of battery I mentioned. Most are much larger size dimensionally and ah ratings...


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

You can connect them in parallel or series or a combination of both as many as you want. The 6v sealed lead acid battery is made up of 4 2.2v cells in series internally.
Such as you could have a set of 2 batteries hooked in parallel in series with another set of 2 batteries hooked in parallel to give you 12 volts with twice the current capacity of a single battery.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Just remember that you need a battery 10 to 11 times bigger (in amperage) than you want to get out of the inverter. Example: you have a 120 volt AC TV needing 60 watts or 1/2 amp at 120 volts per hour. The inverter needs a battery that is 5 to 5.5 amp hour to run the TV for an hour, at best.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I'm thinking 6 would fit nicely in a plastic ammo dry box. Can an inverter turn 6v into AC ? The reason I was thinking in parallel was to get more amp hours.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

12v = 15ah or 6v = 30 ah.... 

15ah is a good base size, as remember you need to charge it, a 20w solar setup running at optimum, will take roughly 15 hours to charge the 12v setup... (Its actually a little less as you may get 1.2a solar output if your lucky) as those ratings have a tolerance Lol and then quality of the light (thats charging solar, if charging from mains it depends on output of charger) 

And 12v to 120vac or 240vac seems safer, as if you go 6v you are doubling the current draw between bat and inverter... May not be as much a deal at 110vac (but last time I dealt with 110 was single phase electric mothers and they take double the current to operate than the 240 equivalent)

So in english, wire for 12v (and you can use items on 12v, yes usb is 5.5v but how much more car gear is out there....)


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Motor not mother


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> 12v = 15ah or 6v = 30 ah....
> 
> 15ah is a good base size, as remember you need to charge it, a 20w solar setup running at optimum, will take roughly 15 hours to charge the 12v setup... (Its actually a little less as you may get 1.2a solar output if your lucky) as those ratings have a tolerance Lol and then quality of the light (thats charging solar, if charging from mains it depends on output of charger)
> 
> ...


I was hoping you would see this thread. can you remind me what battery you went with on your ammo can build?

I may just scrap the idea on this battery type and go with better batteries. I was looking at doing this on the cheap.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Haven't gotten to it yet, going to go to a local battery store and ask for something around 15ah that will fit, as doing the math with solar charging, 2 days to have a full charge is a lot extreme and almost a waste of effort (thats why I put the solar numbers)


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I got the idea for these batteries from automatic deer feeder setups that charge via solar. May not be the best for my pou.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

This may be a better choice. But pricey.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000R...rect=true&ref_=as_li_tf_il&tag=amazonpower-20


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

PS, if those batteries will fit, use them, and easy to get replacements, as its small scale and not going to power a house, maybe charge a iPad a few times, run a night light, even charge smaller batteries (aa and AAA size) if really lucky let you watch the next EPP of biggest looser  

The one im building is focused around not only a self contained cell, but possability of extra input, larger power generation, basicly a hub (if i choose to build add ons, as a radio unit is a future debate, as not set in stone, but a car scanner powered by that cell, but do that i need more storage, then more power generation so thats made 3 more projects based off the one)


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Arklatex said:


> This may be a better choice. But pricey.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000R...rect=true&ref_=as_li_tf_il&tag=amazonpower-20


My price is around $40 how dose that compare to the 6 batteries you were going to buy??


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

6 batteries would run $45 plus tax. In parallel that would be 6v 30 AH. The other option would be appx $37 for 12 18 AH. But it's deep cycle. 2-3 would probably fit in my box of choice giving me 54 AH.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I'm sure some amp hours are gonna be lost in translation though.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

The purpose of this box would be to run and recharge small electronics such as radios, phones, laptops etc. Possibly to power a ham radio setup. Not trying to run power tools or motors. For the record I can already do that with the beastly inverter hooked up in my pickup. Just looking for a small portable setup that can be recharged fully by AC then maintained through a small solar panel. Even though it is inefficient I could also recharge it from a vehicle.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

You won't loose much, but you have 3 options (6v @ 30ah 12v @ 15 ah and 12 @ 18/54 ah +- 5%) 

Ditch 6v, as your going to end up making life way too hard, 12v easy to play with

But you have battery choices, look into charging choices to size (this is a nightmare, spent 3 days just looking at options...) As you want a full charge within a day, thats very important, no point having the storage if you can't fill it (think phone plans, if you have a $80 a month plan but only use $30 a month worth, would you keep the $80 a month plan) 

Thats going to be your biggest problem, working out charge... And how many hours of useable light you have (solar is a very easy way to charge, no external energy required, outside sun light) 

And 40-50 watt panels are expensive and get big and clumsy, option 2 with flex panels is still size.. And more $$ 

Cheaply if size available 20w panels aren't too badly priced but size sucks (so with battery sizes in mind, you need to really think how your going to keep it charged over days/weeks/years... Then decide on batt)


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Since most inverters use 12 or 24 volts DC, you would need to wire 2 batteries in series to make 12 volts. If you use 6 total batteries, you would make up 3 sets of batteries in series. Then you wire the 3 sets in parallel to triple the amperage of the 3 sets of batteries in series.
View attachment 6616


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm not sure I'd use an ammo box. Hydrogen gas will collect (not very much gas, but it will collect). Metal increases chance of shorting out and possibility of fire. If packed real tight, heat will cut the performance of the batteries.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

paraquack said:


> I'm not sure I'd use an ammo box. Hydrogen gas will collect (not very much gas, but it will collect). Metal increases chance of shorting out and possibility of fire. If packed real tight, heat will cut the performance of the batteries.


Here is a box identical to the ones I have and was thinking of using. It's not metal but it is sealed where gas could build up. I didn't even consider that. I'm thinking they could be a tight fit as well.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

The box


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Looks good to me, maybe a vent would help or open the box during discarge and especially charging.

My guess is the batteries you have in the start of the thread are of the VRLA type. This is an excerpt from IEEE regs:
The IEEE 484 says: 
“ ... 5.4 Ventilation 
The battery area shall be ventilated, either by a natural or mechanical ventilation system, to prevent accumulation of hydrogen. The ventilation system shall limit hydrogen accumulation to less than 2% of the total volume of the battery area. 
...” 
“... A battery area that meets the above ventilation requirements should not be considered a classified (hazardous) location; thus special electrical equipment enclosures to prevent fire or explosion should not be necessary. ...” 
There are a number of regulatory agencies and bodies that have established well defined standards and guidelines on proper ventilation design and facility requirements/ calculations for battery rooms and power systems, including OSHA, 
ANSI/ASHRAE, IEEE, NFPA, and others here in the US. While hydrogen has an LEL of 4%, it is a universal guideline to design proper ventilation systems that would view 2% hydrogen gas levels as the absolute upper limit, with 1% concentration maximum limits being specified in most cases. Ventilation systems are designed to maintain human safety, to ensure fire safety, and to promote maximum equipment reliability and safety, in that order. An additional consideration in the design of ventilation systems is the regulation of temperature, as higher room temperatures can significantly increase outgassing while 
reducing battery life. 
There is a wide difference in the outgassing rates between sealed VRLA batteries and flooded (vented) batteries. Flooded batteries outgassing levels can be at least 50 times greater than sealed VRLA batteries, particularly with its liquid electrolyte venting gas continuously under normal float operation. For this reason flooded batteries are typically located in dedicated battery rooms removed from personnel and most systems, and are installed in step or tier open battery racks for access and maintenance. Proper ventilation is critical for dedicated flooded battery rooms, both in terms of preventing gas buildup as 
well as to separate the battery room air from the rest of the facility. At a minimum, the general assumption is that dedicated battery rooms should have ventilation systems in place capable of moving or replacing room air two times per hour. 
In most cases, VRLA batteries do not require special ventilation considerations, and small to medium size systems can often be installed in system enclosures, racks, or cabinets using the available building ventilation system. This is primarily due to
the sealed design of the product, the growing use of internal recombinant catalysts, and the use of safety pressure valves to vent potential gas, particularly under abnormal or fault conditions. The VRLA will typically produce very low levels of gas under normal float and charge/recharge conditions. (One exception is in the event of a condition known as ‘thermal runaway’, which can be caused by a number of factors including improper charging, high temperatures, charger overvoltage failure, and internal cell failure. A VRLA battery in thermal runaway will continuously vent potentially significant levels of 
hydrogen gas until corrective action is taken to reduce the charging voltage or shut the system down. Flooded batteries are largely immune from the scenario of thermal runaway.)


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Ventilation... Hunt down some really old computers or order the power supply fans (they are like coinage worth) 

Computer power supply fans/case fans are 12vdc and you can change the polls to suit use (blow red to red, reverse the direction red to black) with some minor adjustments/moderfacation and you can't promote artificial air flow (I think they consume .5 or .2A


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