# commuting



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Well, I just got searched by NYPD while trying to make my usual evening commute home.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Did you consent?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

They didn't ask, but they did make it clear I could not continue on my way home without the search.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Interesting, did they say why they stopped you?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Interesting, did they say why they stopped you?


Yes. Totally random search, no justification except that I was in a public place.

You realize we are talking NYPD don't you? They believe they can search anyone for no reason whatsoever.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Diver said:


> Yes. Totally random search, no justification except that I was in a public place.
> 
> You realize we are talking NYPD don't you? They believe they can search anyone for no reason whatsoever.


did you let them search you? I would have started screaming "I can't breathe" lol You aren't black are you?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

My son lives in a free state and was stopped on his way to work last Sunday early am. He had his GHB in the back seat with (what I call his mini-machete) big ass knife strapped to his bag and his 9mm on his hip. He is a Fireman/Advanced EMT working on his full Paramedic status. The cop let him off with a warning but not before admiring his knife and GHB and shooting the breeze until Son1 had to go work his shift. 

The fact that Son1 is a first responder may have influenced the cop to let him off, I get that and it is a reality....like it or not... But the fact that he lives in a free state most likely played a much larger role. 

I really hate this happens to you Diver, but if it is a trend, you should probably consider a move to a free-er state.

But as long as you live in a socialist state, DO NOT...I repeat..DO NOT go for the cops gun.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

That is why good people need to stay out of NY


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> did you let them search you? I would have started screaming "I can't breathe" lol You aren't black are you?


No I am a white senior citizen commuting the same route I do every day. They surrounded me like a gang, informed me I would be searched and then did their search. If I had resisted I am sure they would have been more than willing to choke me to death.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> My son lives in a free state and was stopped on his way to work last Sunday early am. He had his GHB in the back seat with (what I call his mini-machete) big ass knife strapped to his bag and his 9mm on his hip. He is a Fireman/Advanced EMT working on his full Paramedic status. The cop let him off with a warning but not before admiring his knife and GHB and shooting the breeze until Son1 had to go work his shift.
> 
> The fact that Son1 is a first responder may have influenced the cop to let him off, I get that and it is a reality....like it or not... But the fact that he lives in a free state most likely played a much larger role.
> 
> ...


This stuff is going to spread over the whole country. Meanwhile, I am liking deBlassio more by the minute, despite the fact that on every other issue I am the polar opposite of the guy.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> That is why good people need to stay out of NY


Well, Abner Louima now lives in FL.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I saw a dead horse on the side of the highway the other day. Looked like somebody beat it to death.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

I'm guessing they are members here and have been reading your postings .....


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

at least this experience will sort out my Ignore list.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Damnit Diver,

I was not aware that you are a senior citizen. Since I was brought up to respect my elders and show respect, I was fixin' to apologize to you for ragging your ass and giving you a hard time on many posts before this one.

Then you throw this crap out there that you are "liking deBlassio more by the minute" and I have to call you an idiot once again. But I'll show you some degree of respect due to your age and call you "Mr. Idiot".

Thanks

Your friend Slippy


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Damnit Diver,
> 
> I was not aware that you are a senior citizen. Since I was brought up to respect my elders and show respect, I was fixin' to apologize to you for ragging your ass and giving you a hard time on many posts before this one.
> 
> ...


deBlassio has done more to restore people's rights in NYC than anyone in decades. The guy is a total bonehead on every other issue. I'd probably dislike deBlassio if the NYPD would just leave me alone, but NOOOOO they need to drum up support for that moron.

I see it as sort of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Diver said:


> at least this experience will sort out my Ignore list.


Hey you gotta admit that YOU starting a thread like this would lead to at least at couple of cheap shots. Some of us can't help it. lol.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps someone driving a vehicle just like yours had just committed a violent felony nearby?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Maybe you could have given a gleeful squeal and asked excitedly if it would include a cavity search. Perhaps they would have lost interest.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Did you ever stop to think that perhaps someone driving a vehicle just like yours had just committed a violent felony nearby?


We're not talking about a vehicle. I was in the middle of Penn Station in NY. Only an idiot would drive in NYC. I am also pretty sure I don't look like any violent felon. As I said, I am a white senior citizen. I also wear glasses and look about as threatening as a ham sandwich.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Diver said:


> We're not talking about a vehicle. I was in the middle of Penn Station in NY. Only an idiot would drive in NYC. I am also pretty sure I don't look like any violent felon. As I said, I am a white senior citizen. I also wear glasses and look about as threatening as a ham sandwich.


You were probably a quota they could check off. My mother travels a lot to visit my sister in CA or brother in PA. She is 80 years old with snow white hair. TSA pulls her aside for "random" searches EVERY time she flies. She is the one they can point to and say "see, we are not targeting middle eastern males"!


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

keith9365 said:


> You were probably a quota they could check off. My mother travels a lot to visit my sister in CA or brother in PA. She is 80 years old with snow white hair. TSA pulls her aside for "random" searches EVERY time she flies. She is the one they can point to and say "see, we are not targeting middle eastern males"!


Well, they aren't winning any public support with security theater. I hope your mother gives them a piece of her mind.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> Maybe you could have given a gleeful squeal and asked excitedly if it would include a cavity search. Perhaps they would have lost interest.


Remember Abner Louima? I don't think that would slow those perverts down.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I can understand how you feel. I ride my motorcycles a lot. 20-60K a year. I ride day or night where ever I choose. I have been stopped many times for no reason late at night or early morning. How much you been drinking boy crap. Search given a hard time no excuse for the stop. There are LEO that let the power trip get to them ,but it is a small percentage.
I have ridden my motorcycle allover Manhattan and NYC.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> I can understand how you feel. I ride my motorcycles a lot. 20-60K a year. I ride day or night where ever I choose. I have been stopped many times for no reason late at night or early morning. How much you been drinking boy crap. Search given a hard time no excuse for the stop. There are LEO that let the power trip get to them ,but it is a small percentage.
> I have ridden my motorcycle allover Manhattan and NYC.


You defend these thugs on most threads and expect me to buy this? No it isn't a small percentage, and the fact that no one removes whatever percentage it is means we should not trust any of them.

This wasn't even a power trip. They were bored by what they were doing. If you violate people's rights all day for a living even that gets tired.

This was just systematic turning people against the NYPD. It worked.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Well, I've had a day to cool off and have decided how I am going to minimize further harassment. I have to lose my backpack and for that I have to lose the bulk of my EDC. If it doesn't fit in my pockets, even during the summer, then I can no longer keep it with me. I have to treat Penn Station in NY like going through TSA in an airport. (I no longer use a carry on bag when I fly.)

Some stuff I can leave in my office in case something happens while I am there. I think what I'll do is prep a drawstring bag (cheap, not a good backpack) and leave it in a drawer at work. Here is what I will no longer carry: Water, Granola Bars, First Aid Kit, Multitool, Gloves, watch cap, paracord, bandanna, spare batteries, radio in anti-static bag, papers for office, train schedules, maps, pens, clips, etc. for office tasks, Kindle. I'll probably replace the Kindle with a cheap Android phone with a Kindle app.

What will I still carry? Wallet, keys on small carabiner with bottle carrier, cell phone, handkerchief, business cards, pen. If I am evacuating from the office, then I will grab the drawstring bag, but on a day to day basis that will stay in the office. I won't carry it as I have done up to now. Some of the stuff may fit in coat pockets in the winter.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Remember before it goes crazy that oby and a bunch of cops want them federal benefits, immunity and street judge power. That's the only thing behind this.
Good cop/bad cop is the unsolvable argument that keeps people stupid while these few were murdered to get better pay, powers, gratuitous profiteering and killing freedom as "safer" (muslim) federal cops.
Fight that if you can.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

oddapple said:


> Remember before it goes crazy that oby and a bunch of cops want them federal benefits, immunity and street judge power. That's the only thing behind this.
> Good cop/bad cop is the unsolvable argument that keeps people stupid while these few were murdered to get better pay, powers, gratuitous profiteering and killing freedom as "safer" (muslim) federal cops.
> Fight that if you can.


I'll settle for avoiding it.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Diver said:


> No I am a white senior citizen commuting the same route I do every day. * They surrounded me like a gang*, informed me I would be searched and then did their search. If I had resisted I am sure they would have been more than willing to choke me to death.


How many cops are we talking about?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Mish said:


> How many cops are we talking about?


Well three of them bracketed me, one old man, like a gang about to do a mugging. However, Penn Station is teeming with NYPD, MTA police, National Guard, State Police, and probably others that slip my mind, every single day. Just to walk from the train to the subway (less than 100 yards) I pass all of those groups, usually in pairs to groups of 4 or even more. I probably pass 20 or more armed security types in less than 100 yards, twice a day, every working day. Some of them are armed with carbines. They all appear to be wearing body armor, some including Kevlar helmets.

They are all a total waste of air as far as I am concerned. If you want to see the police state in action just go to NY and take a stroll through Penn Station.

What I am now going to do is treat that 100 yards like going through a TSA line.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Diver said:


> Well three of them bracketed me, one old man, like a gang about to do a mugging. However, Penn Station is teeming with NYPD, MTA police, National Guard, State Police, and probably others that slip my mind, every single day. Just to walk from the train to the subway (less than 100 yards) I pass all of those groups, usually in pairs to groups of 4 or even more. I probably pass 20 or more armed security types in less than 100 yards, twice a day, every working day. Some of them are armed with carbines. They all appear to be wearing body armor, some including Kevlar helmets.
> 
> They are all a total waste of air as far as I am concerned. If you want to see the police state in action just go to NY and take a stroll through Penn Station.
> 
> What I am now going to do is treat that 100 yards like going through a TSA line.


I'm assuming with the amount of police you regularly see there, you also see many searches going on. How long have you been traveling through Penn Station? How many times have you been searched?


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.607994857968045792&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0

Do you look anything like this kindly old gentleman?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Mish said:


> I'm assuming with the amount of police you regularly see there, you also see many searches going on. How long have you been traveling through Penn Station? How many times have you been searched?


I see searches from time to time. I never like it. This was a first time for me in that venue. The searches are always done by NYPD, not the other groups.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Why not go talk to someone who'll listen to you>>>>> https://www.popularresistance.org/group-organizing-to-disarm-and-displace-nypd/


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Diver said:


> I see searches from time to time. I never like it. This was a first time for me in that venue. The searches are always done by NYPD, not the other groups.


How long have you been traveling through Penn Station? How many years?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Mish said:


> How long have you been traveling through Penn Station? How many years?


Daily for the past year. Not so much in the past. My work takes me in different directions and the transit links change from time to time. When I was younger it was easier to go through the WTC. With the construction that has been a mess for the past ten years, but I've been working elsewhere. For a couple years after 9/11 you couldn't go through the WTC at all.

I don't recommend anywhere in the Northeast, but especially not NYC. It just isn't worth the hassle. The good news is it is slowly chasing away it's reason for existing.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> Well, I just got searched by NYPD while trying to make my usual evening commute home.


Maybe they thought you were cute and had to come up with a reason to feel you up.


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## Dubyagee (Nov 9, 2012)

Yeah, How many times have you traveled through that police state and seen or have been a victim of undue search and seizure? BS question.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> Maybe they thought you were cute and had to come up with a reason to feel you up.


and maybe they thought another Abner Louima had fallen into their perverted grasp.

It wasn't funny for Louima and it wasn't funny for me.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Dubyagee said:


> Yeah, How many times have you traveled through that police state and seen or have been a victim of undue search and seizure? BS question.


Speaking of which, I spent a year in Russia. I was never searched the entire time I was there, not did I see anyone else searched. They had plenty of police.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Why not go talk to someone who'll listen to you>>>>> https://www.popularresistance.org/group-organizing-to-disarm-and-displace-nypd/


Actually that led to a series of interesting links. I'm going to make a few contributions this weekend. Thank you.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Diver,
Are you going to file charges or are you going to do nothing more than complain?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

PaulS said:


> Diver,
> Are you going to file charges or are you going to do nothing more than complain?


I am going to shed my backpack and most of my EDC so I can get to work with a minimum of hassle. A lawsuit is pointless and with the political climate in NY opposed to stop and frisk and electing anti-police politicians things are moving in a good direction.

However that isn't enough, I am contributing money to Disarm NYPD and Copwatch. (Thank you Sarge 7402) I intend to do that every time I get hassled by the police. These characters have much bigger beefs than I have, and they will dedicate the time and attention needed to keep the pot boiling between NYPD and the people of New York. If the cops hassle me, I send off some checks to folks that will hassle them. Simple and easy.

In the past I have contributed to legal defense funds in NJ for people like Brian Aiken and Shaneen Allen. I am going to start doing that for NYC as well.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Diver said:


> I am going to shed my backpack and most of my EDC so I can get to work with a minimum of hassle. A lawsuit is pointless and with the political climate in NY opposed to stop and frisk and electing anti-police politicians things are moving in a good direction.
> 
> However that isn't enough, I am contributing money to Disarm NYPD and Copwatch. (Thank you Sarge 7402) I intend to do that every time I get hassled by the police. These characters have much bigger beefs than I have, and they will dedicate the time and attention needed to keep the pot boiling between NYPD and the people of New York. If the cops hassle me, I send off some checks to folks that will hassle them. Simple and easy.
> 
> In the past I have contributed to legal defense funds in NJ for people like Brian Aiken and Shaneen Allen. I am going to start doing that for NYC as well.


Why ditch the backpack amd most of your EDC? Do you think the bag is what caught their attention and led to the search?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> I am going to shed my backpack and most of my EDC so I can get to work with a minimum of hassle. A lawsuit is pointless and with the political climate in NY opposed to stop and frisk and electing anti-police politicians things are moving in a good direction.
> 
> However that isn't enough, I am contributing money to Disarm NYPD and Copwatch. (Thank you Sarge 7402) I intend to do that every time I get hassled by the police. These characters have much bigger beefs than I have, and they will dedicate the time and attention needed to keep the pot boiling between NYPD and the people of New York. If the cops hassle me, I send off some checks to folks that will hassle them. Simple and easy.
> 
> In the past I have contributed to legal defense funds in NJ for people like Brian Aiken and Shaneen Allen. I am going to start doing that for NYC as well.


WHAT???!!!???!!?
You are going to let them change your legal behavior of carrying a backpack? Baaaaaa Baaaaaa Black sheep have you any wool?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> Why ditch the backpack amd most of your EDC? Do you think the bag is what caught their attention and led to the search?


They mostly stop folks with bags. With no backpack and just what is in my pockets, if they stop me then they have a real problem, because that violates the end of stop and frisk. Stop and frisk is supposed to be over.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> WHAT???!!!???!!?
> You are going to let them change your legal behavior of carrying a backpack? Baaaaaa Baaaaaa Black sheep have you any wool?


So your suggestion is what? Spend all my money on lawsuits that won't go anywhere? Get searched regularly? Spend a small fortune and more time commuting by some other route? Unless you have a suggestion you're just being a jerk.


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## GasholeWillie (Jul 4, 2014)

Diver said:


> So your suggestion is what? Spend all my money on lawsuits that won't go anywhere? Get searched regularly? Spend a small fortune and more time commuting by some other route? Unless you have a suggestion you're just being a jerk.


I have to admit, I'm really confused by this thread. Deblasio is a documented communist. Stop and frisk from Gulianni was basicly profiling, which I prefer to this random nonsense, is now supposed to be done, yet gun crime in NYC area is rising rapidly, yet getting a NYC permit is impossible..... The constitutional rights violations seem endless yet you support deblasio or were you being sarcastic? Or communist?

Anyway, you need to change your method of carry to the old standard hard side brief case or leather computer bag. Carry nothing illegal and everything you want or need in case you need it. Your bag needs to fit your profile, business man on way home. Was your pack searched? Was anything they searched or found questioned? You're rolling over and playing dead vs being smarter. Choose being smarter, not helpless victim, which is becoming a NY thing to be.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

GasholeWillie said:


> I have to admit, I'm really confused by this thread. Deblasio is a documented communist. Stop and frisk from Gulianni was basicly profiling, which I prefer to this random nonsense, is now supposed to be done, yet gun crime in NYC area is rising rapidly, yet getting a NYC permit is impossible..... The constitutional rights violations seem endless yet you support deblasio or were you being sarcastic? Or communist?
> 
> Anyway, you need to change your method of carry to the old standard hard side brief case or leather computer bag. Carry nothing illegal and everything you want or need in case you need it. Your bag needs to fit your profile, business man on way home. Was your pack searched? Was anything they searched or found questioned? You're rolling over and playing dead vs being smarter. Choose being smarter, not helpless victim, which is becoming a NY thing to be.


Stop and frisk was more than profiling. They were stopping and frisking anybody anywhere whenever they got in the mood. What is going on in Penn Station, and possibly other transit hubs, is justified as an anti-terrorism tactic despite the fact stop and frisk is supposedly ended. My understanding is they can't stop you walking down the street and frisk you like they were doing, but they are still searching bags in transit hubs.

DeBlassio has, to the best of my knowledge, not proposed any new violations of basic constitutional rights, though I agree he is a tax and spend liberal. I won't even argue with the communist label to that extent. As a result of his anti-police stance, he won a larger proportion of the vote than any candidate for mayor in memory. There is not a prayer of seeing a Gulliani type in the mayor's office in the foreseeable future. Nobody wants more policing. People in NYC are voting for the most anti-police candidate and all other issues are secondary.

I switched to the backpack about a decade ago because the old style briefcases were causing pain in my old shoulders. They also search those, so I don't think that gets me anywhere. Yes my pack was searched. That's what the thread is about. I had nothing illegal on me and there was nothing worth questioning. The whole process is basically security theater, i.e. give the impression of doing something while really doing nothing useful.

I am not "rolling over and playing dead". I am donating to anti-police organizations and will do so each time I am harassed. I doubt many of the NY area commuters are doing that, but I am going to start suggesting it to folks. As for being smarter, the first smart thing to do is get home alive. These thugs will beat up anyone that crosses them and kill people from time to time. They don't care about age, skin color, or anything else. If caught in a confrontation with them the stupid thing to do is give them an excuse to say you were "resisting".


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Diver said:


> They mostly stop folks with bags. With no backpack and just what is in my pockets, if they stop me then they have a real problem, because that violates the end of stop and frisk. Stop and frisk is supposed to be over.


Even though I think it's crazy, it does make sense given your location. I'll probably take some flak for this but in my opinion profiling is what they should be doing. You say you are a senior white male with a backpack, what threat could you possibly be posing??? People who match your description generally do not sell or carry illegal drugs. Nor do they have a history of using backpack bombs, or go on shooting sprees. They are generally just law abiding citizens. People that do use bombs are generally of Arabic descent. Drug peddlers and mass shooters are usually young people with a certain predatory look about them. But profiling is racist right! Can't do that. The Israelis have figured it out. You don't even have to take off your shoes to get o one of their planes. They know how to profile. Last time I flew I was randomly selected for extra screening. The guy in line behind me was an Arab with a full blown beard. He looked like one of the scumbags that was involved with 9/11... He walked right on through security no problem. That's not how it should work IMO. NYPD should take a lesson from the Israelis.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

*These thugs will beat up anyone that crosses them and kill people from time to time. They don't care about age, skin color, or anything else. If caught in a confrontation with them the stupid thing to do is give them an excuse to say you were "resisting".*

So again with the cop bashing. I agree with Ark we should be profiling. We should stop everyone that poses a threat (gang members). Now if it was random - and your first time in 10 years - perhaps it's time to man up.

Back when I worked for the FEds, we had random drug testing. You guessed it I came up 8 times in a row. I didn't mind it was a nice walk down to the dept of the interior, the nurse and I got to be great friends and they had a great snack bar.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> *These thugs will beat up anyone that crosses them and kill people from time to time. They don't care about age, skin color, or anything else. If caught in a confrontation with them the stupid thing to do is give them an excuse to say you were "resisting".*
> 
> So again with the cop bashing. I agree with Ark we should be profiling. We should stop everyone that poses a threat (gang members). Now if it was random - and your first time in 10 years - perhaps it's time to man up.
> 
> Back when I worked for the FEds, we had random drug testing. You guessed it I came up 8 times in a row. I didn't mind it was a nice walk down to the dept of the interior, the nurse and I got to be great friends and they had a great snack bar.


Here is an example:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-hit-5m-lawsuit-jaywalk-arrest-article-1.1911226

and what does "man up" mean? Get myself beat up by three cops? Your reference to DisarmNYPD was much more useful. Thank you for that.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> Even though I think it's crazy, it does make sense given your location. I'll probably take some flak for this but in my opinion profiling is what they should be doing. You say you are a senior white male with a backpack, what threat could you possibly be posing??? People who match your description generally do not sell or carry illegal drugs. Nor do they have a history of using backpack bombs, or go on shooting sprees. They are generally just law abiding citizens. People that do use bombs are generally of Arabic descent. Drug peddlers and mass shooters are usually young people with a certain predatory look about them. But profiling is racist right! Can't do that. The Israelis have figured it out. You don't even have to take off your shoes to get o one of their planes. They know how to profile. Last time I flew I was randomly selected for extra screening. The guy in line behind me was an Arab with a full blown beard. He looked like one of the scumbags that was involved with 9/11... He walked right on through security no problem. That's not how it should work IMO. NYPD should take a lesson from the Israelis.


Ignoring the constitutional issues I still don't think these morons would actually find anything. TSA has never caught a terrorist. This is the same BS.


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## GasholeWillie (Jul 4, 2014)

Diver said:


> Stop and frisk was more than profiling. They were stopping and frisking anybody anywhere whenever they got in the mood. What is going on in Penn Station, and possibly other transit hubs, is justified as an anti-terrorism tactic despite the fact stop and frisk is supposedly ended. My understanding is they can't stop you walking down the street and frisk you like they were doing, but they are still searching bags in transit hubs.
> 
> DeBlassio has, to the best of my knowledge, not proposed any new violations of basic constitutional rights, though I agree he is a tax and spend liberal. I won't even argue with the communist label to that extent. As a result of his anti-police stance, he won a larger proportion of the vote than any candidate for mayor in memory. There is not a prayer of seeing a Gulliani type in the mayor's office in the foreseeable future. Nobody wants more policing. People in NYC are voting for the most anti-police candidate and all other issues are secondary.
> 
> ...


I think dB won election first off because a large percentage of voters did not vote, he crawled into bed with the teachers union and got big time backing from Blomberg. I don't recall hearing during the election process of him eliminating S& F or eliminating the mosque surveillance program. I certainly recall the outcry over doing this, considering the close proximity to the Boston attack. At the time I thought it was a fairly useful program. But I'll stand by my first comment, he bought the unions and bought the election.


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## GasholeWillie (Jul 4, 2014)

I just fact checked , 24 'effin % turnout, an all time low. Bought and paid for. Could have been worse, could have been Carlos Danger. NYC politics are a disgrace, the whole state for that matter.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

I will just stay out of N.Y., Chicago, N.J. and as soon as I move out of Ca. I wont ever come back... Get to a free state and start living


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

He only speaks Chinese and Spanish! Didn't assimilate well into USofA society. Ran a business in the big apple! Resisted arrest (from the original post). Now he wants to sue the city. Sees a big pay day?

Trust me don't follow the orders of a cop - and you pick the country of choice - and try and leave when they tell you in the language of the country and you will get detained. Try and pull away and they will use the necessary force to place you under arrest.

You seem to think that only "you" matter in our society. Your voluntary decision to be a part of that society means that you agree to the terms and conditions of that society.

Don't like the laws or actions of the authorities. Then when it comes to your chance to vote them out - oh wait you don't live in NY do you, you just visit. Don't like the rules then don't go.

And that is what I mean by being a man about things. Not sitting at you magical keyboard and whining to anyone who will listen to your pathetic wimpering.:armata_PDT_37::armata_PDT_37::armata_PDT_37:


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Well, I agree that NYC politics are a disgrace. Furthermore, the city having such a large population is the tail that wags the whole state. Nonetheless DeBlassio is anti-cop, the cops know it, and the people know it, and they elected him rather than some other liberal because of it. He did end Stop & Frisk and has been moving to settle some of the lawsuits against the police rather than put people through years of litigation in the hopes they'll just go away. I don't like NYC politics, but I'll give the guy credit for doing the right thing by ending Stop & Frisk. He has taken a lot of heat from the police and hasn't lost a bit of support within NYC despite that, regardless of what you may hear on national news, which really doesn't cover this stuff.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> He only speaks Chinese and Spanish! Didn't assimilate well into USofA society. Ran a business in the big apple! Resisted arrest (from the original post). Now he wants to sue the city. Sees a big pay day?
> 
> Trust me don't follow the orders of a cop - and you pick the country of choice - and try and leave when they tell you in the language of the country and you will get detained. Try and pull away and they will use the necessary force to place you under arrest.
> 
> ...


Well, I like the laws just fine. Too bad the cops won't obey them. I am also not just sitting at my keyboard whimpering (BTW: that would be another inciter, but we'll let it pass since you can't spell it right.) I have made my contribution to Disarm NYPD and another to Copwatch. Thank you for that link. I probably would not have thought of that without your help.  I'm feeling much better since taking those actions.

I'm still debating contributing to a DeBlassio re-election campaign. I think I'll wait on that to see if he continues to piss off the cops or caves to them.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

PaulS said:


> Diver,
> Are you going to file charges or are you going to do nothing more than complain?


If you don't like what he has to say then don't read the thread.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Doc Holliday said:


> I will just stay out of N.Y., Chicago, N.J. and as soon as I move out of Ca. I wont ever come back... Get to a free state and start living


I'm not too far from that, but then the question becomes where to go?

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids | Cato Institute

I guess North Dakota should be high on my list.


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Diver said:


> No I am a white senior citizen commuting the same route I do every day. They surrounded me like a gang, informed me I would be searched and then did their search. If I had resisted I am sure they would have been more than willing to choke me to death.


That's no ok!!! The people of NYC need to do something about that.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

firefighter72 said:


> That's no ok!!! The people of NYC need to do something about that.


They already did. They voted in the most anti-cop mayor of any big city in the country. I suspect there is more to come.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Diver said:


> They already did. They voted in the most anti-cop mayor of any big city in the country. I suspect there is more to come.


 How did that work out for them?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> How did that work out for them?


So far he has eliminated Stop & Frisk and the other day I saw on the news Bratton announcing that there would be 1 million fewer contacts between police and citizens in 2015 vs. 2014.

Unfortunately that isn't enough to return us to full respect for the Bill of Rights, but it is a start.

Some parts of the city are under court order to use body cameras. I wouldn't be surprised to see that spread.

I think one real test will be to see if police corruption settlements and litigation expenses start to decline. The city currently shells out about $100 million per year for lawsuits in police brutality, false arrest, and other corruption cases. Unfortunately most everything you read is case by case and when you see something that is about the level of settlements it tends to be about when the settlements occurred, not when the incidents occurred. I've heard that DeBlassio is trying to clear some of the backlog, so the settlements may actually go up for awhile for incidents that occurred several years ago. However, if one were to look back several years from now and find the number of incidents had declined around this time that would be a good indicator things started to change around now.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/14/nypd-paid-nearly-1-billion-to-settle-lawsuits/


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

EDC Progress. I decided to put some extra food and water in the backpack and leave it at the office, so if disaster strikes while I am there I put on the bag and go. On both 9/11 and during the blackout a few years later I was in the office when things went sideways. However, I still want to be as prepared as possible while in transit, but have no bag so there is no excuse to stop me.

I gave some thought to what were the most important items during my prior "escapes from NY" and concluded water and the small radio I have talked about before. I was able to get some water along the way each time, but not before getting a bit thirsty. Here is what I have in mind so far. During Fall, Winter & Spring I wear a suit so I have a bunch of pockets, but none to carry something as bulky as a water bottle. During the summer the office has "business casual" so no jacket required. I've decided that this summer I will wear a blazer to get the additional pockets.

I have a cheesy little AM/FM that is even thinner than the little Sony I've been carrying. It doesn't have a weather band, but it is even thinner than the Sony. It is so cheap it was actually a give away at some conference I attended years ago and it just sits in a drawer, so I am going to pull that out and carry it. That leaves me with the challenge of water. Water is heavy and most water bottles are too bulky to go into a pocket. I not only need something that will fit in a pocket, but light enough when full that it won't be like carrying a weight in one pocket which is then tugging at my clothes uncomfortably. Short term I decided to get some bottles of 5 hour energy. The little bottles hold about 2 ounces of liquid each so with about 4 of the bottles filled with water, I've got 8 ounces of water distributed about. I also saw some 4 ounce flasks that seemed rather flat on the internet that I may try out. If they don't tug at my clothes that will be a bit more capacity. That covers my two most important prep items.

The final item I wanted to deal with is I have been carrying a Kindle to read on the train. That's too big to fit in a pocket and my Blackberry phone is uncomfortably small to read on for lengthy periods, so I'm going to go into a phone store and try fitting Android phones into the breast pocket of a suit jacket. I can get a Kindle app for Android and I am going to pick out the phone with the most comfortable trade off between a large screen and light weight. With a little luck something as large as the Samsung Note may even be comfortable in the jacket. If not, certainly some smaller model will work.

I've already got a flashlight, a small blade and a small lighter on my key chain, so that will not change.

I've still got a bit of experimenting to do, but I am going to be pretty well equipped with just what is in my pockets if something happens during my commute.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

End Week 1: By the end of the week I was carrying around 10 oz. of water scattered between various pockets in little 2 oz. bottles and not noticing it too much, but on each of my prior "escapes" I went through two bottles of Poland Spring that I picked up along the way, i.e. 24 oz. of water. I'd like to get to at least 12 oz. of water on my person. This week I am going to try an 8 oz. flask I had sitting in a drawer. That looks a little thinner than the 5 hour energy bottles, but will put more weight in one place. We'll see how that works out. I am also going to add a couple granola bars.

I dropped several jackets off at the tailor to be let out. I don't want bulges to be printing all over the place and drawing attention. I'm also going to get a couple little belt pouches the size of cell phone cases. Ideally they will have belt clips so I can take them off at soon as I arrive at work without removing my belt and they won't print under a jacket. I'll use one of those for the radio and go back to my preferred Sony radio and probably another for batteries.

I've still got some figuring to do to get a FAK and some tools onto my person, but with a bit of luck I'll get to the point where I am giving up nothing except the pack, which I will leave in the office.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Middle of Week 2: I've just replaced my Kindle with an LG Android phone. I then installed the Kindle app onto the phone and downloaded a book to see how the reading experience worked. It seems okay, and the smaller device fits in a pocket, so I think I have solved one of the problems with shedding the pack. The LG is cheaper than a Samsung and seems to have a very nice screen. The screen should be adequate for reading on the train. I'll need to learn more about Android to do more than just use this as a Kindle substitute.

I then stopped into a local preparedness store and bought some Mayday bars. While there I noticed he had emergency water in 4 oz. pouches. These might be a solution to top off my water supply by dropping a few of these in various pockets. I didn't buy any of the water packets yet. I probably should have acquired one to just put in a pocket and see how it feels. As an impulse purchase there was a little donut shaped key fob made from paracord. Supposedly it is about 15 feet unwound, so I bought one and added it to my keychain. There is no way I am going to be wearing a paracord bracelet, but this thing will stay hidden in my pocket.

I put a few small first aid supplies in a ziplock and placed that in a pocket. It would be too much to call this a first aid kit, but it does include some stuff I use regularly like Advil and some anti-histamines. It's a start.

I've tried the flask and it works, and when combined with all the little 2 oz. bottles brings the total water up to 16 oz. That isn't as much water as I want, and the flask pulls on my jacket. I could live with it, but I want to do better. Unless I can solve the water problem, I am going to need some sort of carrier for a water bottle. I don't think they'll find searching a water bottle very interesting, so while that doesn't get to the goal of no bag whatsoever, it will probably be enough to eliminate searches.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

New Week, New Approach: I have concluded that I can't get everything I want in my pockets so I need some sort of bag. I am now trying out a Maxpedition Water Bottle Bag. What it is: This is a bag intended to hold a good sized water bottle and not a whole lot more. It does have a pocket n the outside in addition to the pocket for the water bottle itself. These come in two sizes. I bought the smaller one which is 10" high and 4" in diameter, plus it has the pocket. I also bought the optional shoulder strap. Pros: It does not go on my back so it won't attract attention of the Gestapo. It is also about 1/10 the size of a backpack. It meets my water requirements, which seemed to be my biggest issue with not having the backpack. I currently have a Kleen Kanteen 27 oz. bottle in the bag, and some MayDay bars and TP in the pocket. The main pouch could take a larger diameter bottle, but no taller. I wanted 24 oz. minimum, so the 27 oz. bottle meets my requirements. Cons: I still have a bit more stuff to get into my pockets, but I'll experiment a bit more and probably get there. I also think the strap is a bit short. I'd recommend the bag, but make my own strap in the future.

I also acquired a Maxpedition "Barnacle" pouch. This thing is really tiny but still kind of fat. I tried getting some first aid stuff into it and wasn't real happy, but it seems to be the perfect size for my little Sony radio. I could attach it to the water bottle, the strap, or my belt, so I'll probably play with it a bit more and may or may not stick with the pouch. It is well made if you need a pouch this size.

I think I've also figured out how they are setting up and nabbing people. They set up so they can catch you by surprise as you come around a corner. The halls in Penn Station are quite large so the thing to do is just stay in the middle of the hall until you can see around the corner. It's pretty much the same situational awareness you need to avoid muggers.

So overall I am now down to a bag 1/10 the size of what I was carrying before, plus I have more in my pockets. The bag isn't a backpack and should draw less attention. I've given up very little of what I was carrying and with either some additional pouches or some rearranging of my pockets, I expect to get the rest of my stuff on board.

With just this stuff I could certainly deal with the mixed bag of walking and mass transit I had available after 9/11 and the subsequent blackout. In a EMP with all the cars knocked out I could probably make it home in two days. I still have the backpack at the office, so if I started from there I would have more food, water and other supplies, but this should cover me if I get caught in transit.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Still fiddling: The water bottle carrier now has a 27 oz. bottle and 1600 calories of MayDay bars in it. The pouch on the front has the Sony radio, some batteries and headphones for the radio, a larger battery for recharging my cell phone (on 9/11/01 I pretty well drained mine just trying to get a connection before I got through) and a cable for that. I even tossed in a little paracord.

That leaves the little first aid kit to go in a pocket. It fits in most jacket pockets comfortably. The Android phone is in a pocket and my Blackberry stays on my belt. I still have my key ring with firestarter, Victoronix SD, compass and loop for another water bottle. I also have the full pack in the office. I'll have the water bottle carrier on me in transit and a full GHB in my car.

The Barnacle pouch was simply too fat. I need something skinnier if I am going to put anything on the strap or on my belt, but I think I am in pretty good shape now.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Diver now I much better understand your distrust of all things government.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I'm not sure if you are serious or joking, but I hope you are serious.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Here is a before and after look at what I am carrying:









I've gone from the backpack to the water bottle carrier and everything is still either in the water bottle carrier or in my pockets.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

You are a dedicated man. That's a huge difference. Do you think you'll continue to be stopped?


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I'm being serious


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

sideKahr: I don't know for sure, but that's the goal.  The other key is to have what I need if I have to escape from NY City again. In the past the things I needed the most were water, food, and communications. I've got those covered.

Jakthesoldier: Thank you. That pleases me. I don't expect folks to necessarily agree with me, but it is always nice when someone at least understands the point.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I distrust the government as well, and as far as the military goes I'm sure there will always be career minded patsies who will just follow orders. My issue is that when it comes down to every regular joe, I think there are more of us with the intestinal fortitude to stand up against tyranny. I know for me, my oath was to protect the US from enemies foreign and domestic. Unfortunately I just received my disability ratings today, so that oath, as far as the army is concerned, ends very soon.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I hope you're right because we need citizens who respect the Bill of Rights.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Well, maybe myself and the other past and present military on here can help you see we aren't all bad.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

You should be able to fit the big Kleen Kanteen in that pouch. I think they are 40 oz. I have the knock off of that pouch made by condor. I keep it in my truck. A gsi glacier cup will nestle on the bottom of it or a nalgene so you will have an extra container. Mine is setup as a survival kit though. Not urban edc like yours. Got the idea from Dave Canterbury. Google his water bottle kit to see what I'm talking about. BTW you can wear the paracord covertly around your ankle. Also I think you should add a flashlight to your kit. Maybe I missed it.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Jakthesoldier: I generally have high regard for the military. However, if they start operating on US soil against US citizens, then they will lose that high regard in a heartbeat. I find what went on in Watertown, MA highly disturbing and I have never heard who those units were, though I would guess MA National Guard. Any officer that gives orders to massively search US homes at gun point, without individual warrants, should be dishonorably discharged.

Arklatex: I haven't gotten into detail about what has been in my pockets, but I carry a key ring with a small flashlight and fire starting capability plus a number of other items. The challenge isn't to figure out what to carry, but how to carry it in sufficiently compact form that I won't be harassed.

The carrier would take a 40 oz. bottle, but I have 27 oz. bottle already and don't own a 40 oz. bottle. What I am carrying is also highly influenced by my past evacuations and the urban environment this is all taking place in. During both the 9/11 experience and the blackout a couple years earlier, I wound up doing a lot of walking but it was not an overnight experience. The things I really needed were water, a bit of food to snack on, and some clue as to what was happening so I could make good decisions on what to do to get home. I went through 24 oz. of water on each occasion. I figure a worst case is an EMP that disables all transportation while I am in NY, but not in the office where I have the pack. Then I still have the challenges of getting out of the subway, back across the river, and a long hike home with just what I have on my person. With what I have now I think I would be tired, thirsty, and hungry, but I would make it.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Diver what happened in Watertown, MA?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

After the Boston Marathon bombing massive numbers of LEO'S and military went door to door ordering people out of their homes and then searching those homes.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Here's one video about the martial law situation in Watertown, MA.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Gotcha, I didn't connect Watertown with the Boston bombing.


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