# Christmas



## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm trying to figure out the anti-Christmas people out there, they have holiday party's,holiday trees, etc. I don't mean to sound ignorant here but what are they celebrating other then the birth of Jesus Christ, they are offended by Christmas , but take the day off with pay, someone in the anti-Christmas crowd please explain this. Just curious. Hope I didn't offend anyone Merry Christmas


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Agenda, In order to move forward with the liberal, socialist agenda all that is good , all that is right must be done away with. Their goal has always been a new world order for man. Replace faith with government.


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

rstanek said:


> I'm trying to figure out the anti-Christmas people out there, they have holiday party's,holiday trees, etc. I don't mean to sound ignorant here but what are they celebrating other then the birth of Jesus Christ, they are offended by Christmas , but take the day off with pay, someone in the anti-Christmas crowd please explain this. Just curious. Hope I didn't offend anyone Merry Christmas


Merry Christmas  (or as we say in Swedish, GOD JUL)

It might be of interest to know that jesus was born in spring, but his birth is celebrated in december, because there were old roman / norse festivals that people wanted to contioue with. So all of the sudden, jesus was born i late december 

It might also be of intreset that people like and have a better life if we come together and share food, vine and gifts  Therefore, the reason to why we celebrate is way less important then we do celebrate! 

Same goes for any other feast of choise, like Midsummer, halloween, Easter, thanksgiving and so on.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I want to add a few words about this.. but have decide - silence is the better part of valor


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

I stand somewhat corrected, according to this site it is most likley he was born early fall, but absolutley not during winter 

When Was Jesus Born? | Bible Questions


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## jdjones3109 (Oct 28, 2015)

Don't assume that anyone who doesn't celebrate Christmas is a non-Christian, liberal, or atheist. I've met quite a few Fundamentalist Christians (read ultra conservative) who don't celebrate Christmas or any birthday for several reasons. I found this at a JW website and will use it to illustrate the point, but the view that Christians shouldn't celebrate Xmas/birthdays is not limited to just them. BTW... I'm just posting this for discussion purposes. Don't assume that I agree with it although I find the points valid on their face.

Consider four of these aspects and related Bible principles.

1. Birthday celebrations have pagan roots. According to Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend, these celebrations originated from the belief that on a person's birthday, "evil spirits and influences have the opportunity to attack the celebrants" and that "the presence of friends and the expression of good wishes help to protect the celebrant." The book The Lore of Birthdays says that in ancient times, birthday records were "essential for the casting of a horoscope" based on "the mystic science of astrology." This book adds that "birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes."

The Bible, however, condemns the use of magic, divination, spiritism, or "anything like this." (Deuteronomy 18:14; Galatians 5:19-21) In fact, one reason why God condemned the ancient city of Babylon was that its inhabitants practiced astrology, which is a form of divination. (Isaiah 47:11-15) Jehovah's Witnesses are not preoccupied with the roots of every custom; yet when the Scriptures give such pointed indications, we do not ignore them.

2. The early Christians did not celebrate birthdays. The World Book Encyclopedia says that "they considered the celebration of anyone's birth to be a pagan custom." The Bible shows that the apostles and others who were taught directly by Jesus established a pattern that all Christians should follow.-2 Thessalonians 3:6.

3. The only commemoration that Christians are required to keep involves, not a birth, but a death-that of Jesus. (Luke 22:17-20) This should not be surprising, for the Bible says that "the day of death is better than the day of birth." (Ecclesiastes 7:1) By the end of his life on earth, Jesus had made a good name with God, making the day of his death more important than the day of his birth.-Hebrews 1:4.

4. The Bible never refers to a servant of God celebrating a birthday. This is not simply an oversight, for it does record two birthday celebrations by those not serving God. However, both of those events are presented in a bad light.-Genesis 40:20-22; Mark 6:21-29.

"Early Christians [from time of Christ until the 4th century] frowned on [celebrating anyone's birthday], which was too closely linked with pagan customs to be given the approval of the church." - How It Started, Garrison, copyright 1972 by Abingdon Press, p. 213

The Christian Book of Why, by Dr. John C. McCollister (Lutheran minister and university professor, graduate of Trinity Lutheran Seminary), Jonathan David Publishers, Inc., 1983, tells us on p. 205:

"Christians of the first century did not celebrate the festival honoring the birth of Jesus - for the same reason they honored no other birthday anniversary. It was the feeling at that time by ALL Christians that the celebration of all birthdays (even the Lordâs) was a custom of the PAGANS. In an effort to divorce themselves from ALL pagan practices, the early Christians refused to set aside a date marking Jesus' birth. As a result, the first celebration of Christmas by Christians did not take place until the fourth century."�


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Swedishsocialist said:


> Merry Christmas  (or as we say in Swedish, GOD JUL)
> 
> It might be of interest to know that jesus was born in spring, but his birth is celebrated in december, because there were old roman / norse festivals that people wanted to contioue with. So all of the sudden, jesus was born i late december
> 
> ...


Which is why the OP should have put the question about why people celebrate Nimrod's Birthday on 12/25 in the SHTF In Prophecy section ,Nimrod was the husband and son of Semiramis, and builder of the tower of Babble .


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## Mancelona Man (Nov 27, 2015)

Merry Christmas!


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

That's the great thing about Christmas, it means different things to different people.
The hard liners at both end of the spectrum seem to fight to get recognition of their beliefs where most folks just like the happy memories of their childhood and the warm feelings of family & friends being close during this time of year.
But hey, there's always some prick that wants you to only celebrate it _Their way_ !

However the folks on the forum wish to celebrate this time of year, I wish them a happy holiday season.

And that's from the son of a former Baptist Preacher.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

LOL!
It isn't called "Warm and Fuzzy Memory Day;" it is called Christmas. Christ's Day.People can pretend it is whatever, but that is what it is.

On the other hand, I tend to think as J.D. Jones said, that it is a day rife with pagan symbolism from its origin and I don't place much emphasis on it. I say "much," because I have to play the game for the sake of peace within the the family.

Interestingly, Christmas wasn't allowed in the early days of our nation because it was viewed as pagan in origin. Today, it is a federal holiday, which means I get a paid day at the range after I do the family thing. :smug:

The attack on Christmas is all about Christ and nothing about Mas, which is why I find the agenda to be business as usual in this dying culture.


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

I'll have a drink and watch it die from the side lines as religions fight it out.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Not a religionist fight but one of rights. A serious one, once we lose this one the rest are done for.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Where I live, even the word 'Christmas' is being replaced by 'sparkle season'. Holidays evolve, but in my opinion this is devolution.


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## Billy Roper (Oct 5, 2015)

As someone who is going through a divorce and the dissolution of a family, I want to give a message of solidarity and hope to others who might be going through Christmas alone this year. Try to focus on the people in your life who are positive and who do care about you, and make plans for your future. God bless you all.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Billy Roper said:


> As someone who is going through a divorce and the dissolution of a family, I want to give a message of solidarity and hope to others who might be going through Christmas alone this year. Try to focus on the people in your life who are positive and who do care about you, and make plans for your future. God bless you all.


Billy, you hang in there. I'll be praying for you, as well as a bunch of other people, here. Many of us know the pain you are enduring. It'll pass. Meanwhile and afterward, be the best dad you can be, set a good example for the children and don't waiver in doing so. Your work will not be without a pay-off. My son, who about a year old when his mother divorced me, graduated Auburn this past Saturday and begins working for his new employer this coming Monday.

Work through the pain while focusing on the future.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I've always figured, the people who don't know Christ, there will be a time when he will return the favor.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

My celebration is based around family and being grateful for all that is good in life( I'm not a religious person). 
My son (age 9), who goes to church regularly, believes in a more religious reason for the holiday. We choose to support my son's ideas and encourage what he believes. 

We have a very open dialog in our house about religion. I'm hoping that it helps him to have a more open mind, and realize just because he chooses to believe in something, it doesn't mean that is the choice for someone else.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord". 

We like Christmas very much.

Thanks for listening,

Your friend,

Slippy:icon_smile:


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

We should all just celebrate "Life Day"!

10 points for anyone who gets the reference.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

GrumpyBiker said:


> That's the great thing about Christmas, it means different things to different people.


And as we all know, some beliefs are correct and some are incorrect.. and if that is the great thing? why are you critical of the HARDLILNERS?



GrumpyBiker said:


> The hard liners at both end of the spectrum seem to fight to get recognition of their beliefs where most folks just like the happy memories of their childhood and the warm feelings of family & friends being close during this time of year.


So your belief is that those that are opposed to your HAPPY MEMORY idea are hard liners



GrumpyBiker said:


> But hey, there's always some prick that wants you to only celebrate it _Their way_ !


and there is always the person that just wants people to know the truth.



GrumpyBiker said:


> However the folks on the forum wish to celebrate this time of year, I wish them a happy holiday season.


I agree



GrumpyBiker said:


> And that's from the son of a former Baptist Preacher.


My step dad was a master carpenter... you would not want me to build anything for you


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I'm an atheist who likes Christmas.

Far from protesting the Nativity scene set up in our local courthouse yard, I like it. Last year somebody stole baby Jesus, and I helped lead a town-wide search for the little guy (fortunately he was returned, anonymously, a few days later). I don't care that the ministerial alliance sets it up every year, it doesn't cost the taxpayers a dime so what difference does it make to me? As long as any other legitimate religious group gets equal opportunity if they want it (which our county allows, but nobody has taken advantage of) I have zero problem with it at all.

I went to our office Christmas party and I sang along with the Christmas songs (our office is actually exceedingly Christian, except for me...), I join right in singing Silent Night because it's a lovely song.

I find it distasteful that other Atheists seem to have a need to ban everything Christmas everywhere. Call me at my office and I will answer the phone Merry Christmas, although I will also wish people Happy Holidays if they prefer.

I must admit, I find the commercialization of Christmas appalling, I find it disgusting and degrading to the holiday.

Spice and I do not do gifts for specific days... not Christmas, not each other's birthdays, Valentines, etc. We stopped doing this years ago, because she was stressing out over the thought of getting me things that I would like, to the point of she would hand me a gift and burst out in tears in worry that I wouldn't like it (and she would never know because I am a NICE person, I would NEVER say that I don't like a gift, and I would never return it (with the exception of a sizing issue, for exactly the same item in a different size). Finally, about 15 years ago I said "ENOUGH! We are done with this" and we don't do gifts any more. This is a general rule and not Christmas specific.

SO...

*MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL!!!*

May you and yours have a great holiday, I wish you health & happiness in this holiday season.


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## DadofTheFamily (Feb 19, 2015)

I have a seminary background and can help with some of the discussion. Christmas on Dec 25 is simply a memorial date. It was first mentioned as a date to "celebrate" in the 4th century AD. Also, the Biblical account talks about the census of Augustus and movement of people "en mass". This would not have been done during the winter or rainy season in Roman Palestine since it would have been very difficult. We tend to think of things in Americanized terms. Winter in the Middle East is "muddy". Anyone who has been in Iraq has seen this. The official Roman church proclamation of Dec 25 was a way to super-cede the Roman Pagan holiday of Saturnalia with a Christian holiday. Also one last little nugget of interest: If you look at Luke's account of the birth of Jesus in the original Koine (common) Greek, the narrative does not say that Mary and Joseph could not "find a room in the Inn" but rather could not find an "appropriate place at the Inn" to spend the night. 1st century inns were not like today's Marriott's, but rather like hostels. No devout Jewish pregnant woman about to give birth and her spouse would want to have an "audience". A separate dwelling was more appropriate.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Someone said "merry holiday" to me the other day.wtf?.I said,"Merry Christmas!!" right back.


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

@ Maine-Marine

Believe what you want if that's what keeps you sane.
There are 5000 gods being worshiped at this very moment on this planet.
But don't worry, only your religion is the right one.

My Warm & happy memories have zero to do with anything religious.
I wasn't present at the time but I'm guessing a lighted conifer with colorful presents around its base wasn't part of the manger scene but it is part of my memories of the season.
And Santa wasn't there either. 
My memories of christmas have to do with family and modern traditions , nothing else.
Enjoy it your way, I & everyone else would like the same courtesy from the "hard liners ".
Though that never seems to happen as they bristle at the idea of someone not agreeing with their beliefs.

Peace on earth.... Not likely and one should ask themselves Why?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Slippy said:


> And the angel said to them, "Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord".


I know it's wrong, but I can't read these words without hearing Linus saying them in my mind.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Agenda, In order to move forward with the liberal, socialist agenda all that is good , all that is right must be done away with. Their goal has always been a new world order for man. Replace faith with government.


Well said Top.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I know it's wrong, but I can't read these words without hearing Linus saying them in my mind.


I didn't have that... until now... but now, I do.

I bet Slippy sounds just like Linus.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

I wish I could get into Christmas like I used to, my kids are grown and although I have 2 grandsons.. its hard to get into the spirit of Christmas when you suffer from depression, anxiety and anger issues.

I am Christian, but right now me and the big guy are having a little argument.... he wants to use me as his favorite kick toy and Im tired of dealing with all the pain. :miserable:


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

Doc Holliday said:


> I wish I could get into Christmas like I used to, my kids are grown and although I have 2 grandsons.. its hard to get into the spirit of Christmas when you suffer from depression, anxiety and anger issues.
> 
> I am Christian, but right now me and the big guy are having a little argument.... he wants to use me as his favorite kick toy and Im tired of dealing with all the pain. :miserable:


May I pray for you my brother


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Doc Holliday said:


> I wish I could get into Christmas like I used to, my kids are grown and although I have 2 grandsons.. its hard to get into the spirit of Christmas when you suffer from depression, anxiety and anger issues.
> 
> I am Christian, but right now me and the big guy are having a little argument.... he wants to use me as his favorite kick toy and Im tired of dealing with all the pain. :miserable:


I stand with you Doc in prayer, as you follow your journey.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

GrumpyBiker said:


> @ Maine-Marine
> 
> Believe what you want if that's what keeps you sane.


I do not believe WHAT I WANT... I believe what makes sense and what appears to be true based on evidence.

Merry Christmas

Oh.. and the fact that there are 6,000 gods being worshiped means that there are at least 5,999 people who are wrong...there could be 6,000 wrong..but there can not be 6,000 people correct


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## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not believe WHAT I WANT... I believe what makes sense and what appears to be true based on evidence.
> 
> Merry Christmas
> 
> Oh.. and the fact that there are 6,000 gods being worshiped means that there are at least 5,999 people who are wrong...there could be 6,000 wrong..but there can not be 6,000 people correct


or there might be the thing about humans lack of understanding of the divine realm. Like christianty, they claim there is only one god, and he is tree, The father, son and the holy spirit. That is kind of confusing (but fun), and then there are saint, angels, devils, demons and likevise, and they could be regarded as.. demigods I guess, people still pray to them or regard them as someting that can affect their lives.

Religion is strange, but you can never apply logic to it.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> or there might be the thing about humans lack of understanding of the divine realm. Like christianty, they claim there is only one god, and he is tree, The father, son and the holy spirit. That is kind of confusing (but fun), and then there are saint, angels, devils, demons and likevise, and they could be regarded as.. demigods I guess, people still pray to them or regard them as someting that can affect their lives.
> 
> Religion is strange, but you can never apply logic to it.


Logic you say....want to start a list Swede where logic is always applied by all and in the same manner? Might depend on one's definition of logic......... Well throw this post out the window, you might say....... for lack of logic.


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

Religious beliefs are based on faith .
Faith is the belief in things unseen, not facts.
People "believe" in Bigfoot, aliens visiting earth & government conspiracies to control us.
People are morons at times.
Especially when facts and logic are suspended .
Everyone is free to believe whatever they want as that's one of our fundamental freedoms.
But we're back to my previous statement ....
"Though that never seems to happen as they bristle at the idea of someone not agreeing with their beliefs."

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.

John Adams - 1735

*Merry Christmas*


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

GrumpyBiker said:


> Religious beliefs are based on faith . *One must believe to enable him to see*
> Faith is the belief in things unseen, not facts. *As is much of the certainty of our lives and crossroads not expected - jobs, families, laws, living location, our government*
> People "believe" in Bigfoot, aliens visiting earth & government conspiracies to control us. *Yep, sometimes there is a little truth in some though*
> People are morons at times.*Most of the times*
> ...


And just like yourself...... all this coming from the son of a Baptist preacher. (so it seems that your previous point about your Dad's occupation is really irrelevant to one's life choices..... its not on him).


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

Other than the _fact_ that I got an inside , up close look at Religion and saw it from a perspective most will never see.

To the OPs post & question about Anti-Christmas people...
I have never actually met someone who was anti-christmas.
Has anyone else? Actually met face to face a person who was against people celebrating christmas?

The officer I work with 5 days a week doesn't celebrate Xmas.
He has nothing against it, his kids are grown and 4 states away.
He like a lot of people believe its a holiday for kids so he works a bunch of OT during the holidays.
My wife & I on the other hand decorate our home, every room.
Put up three trees throughout our home even though we don't have kids (never have, never will).
But my partner , though he doesn't do anything to celebrate the holiday, supports everyone else who does.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Grumpy, I'm betting you would have liked my Dad. His weekend job was actually his passion, planting churches and teaching. He had a day job too, 28 years military, most of it as a drill Sargent making men from little boys with his crash course.....and I am talking back in the good old days, nothing watered down or politically correct.

Most graduated in a few weeks...... me, I guess I was a slow learner as my front row seat took me 18 years to get "most of it".

Yea, you would have liked him ..... a "better give your soul to God, cause your ass is mine" kinda guy.

Merry Christmas, my friend.....and thanks for your service to our Country.


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## jdjones3109 (Oct 28, 2015)

The thing that strikes me as odd is how people assume that others don't believe in God or worship Him in a way that's pleasing to Him simply because they don't identify as Christians. Let's take the Native Americans as an example. They've been here for at least 12,000 years. God created all of us, so He created them, too. They developed religions and morality based on their appreciation for the things God allowed them to perceive. Obviously God didn't have a problem with it because He didn't wipe them out with a flood, plaque, etc. Along comes the Bible, Jesus, and Christianity thousands of years later. They were no where near where all of that happened and didn't have access to CNN to hear the breaking news. Does that mean that they were automatically pagans who didn't care about God and were worthy of His and everyone's disdain just because they didn't know the Hebrew word for this or that, have access to the newly written Bible, etc.? I find that difficult to believe and I really find it difficult to believe that God would be pleased with us killing and raping them nearly out of existence. I'm a Christian, but I prefer not to throw stones at other religions. I don't presume to know God's plan for them and will leave it up to Him to execute it (and them if He sees fit). After all, I'd hate to stand before Him one day and have to explain why I did X, Y, or Z to His children when He allowed them to do things that I simply didn't understand. As for all of "them" being bad. Well, we don't exactly have a great track record for being so good, either.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Swedishsocialist said:


> or there might be the thing about humans lack of understanding of the divine realm. Like christianty, they claim there is only one god, and he is tree, The father, son and the holy spirit. That is kind of confusing (but fun), and then there are saint, angels, devils, demons and likevise, and they could be regarded as.. demigods I guess, people still pray to them or regard them as someting that can affect their lives.
> 
> Religion is strange, but you can never apply logic to it.


I will give you a few logical thoughts you can apply to religion...

There can be only ONE ALL Mighty God. (if there were two and one could not destroy the other, that god would not be ALL powerful)

All religions can be wrong, but they can not all be right.

A thing can not both be true and false at the same time.

Jesus was either who he said he was or he was lying.

If 2 religions describe their god and the attributes and general characters are different - their Gods are different...

If Jesus was who he said he was - that information is important


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jdjones3109 said:


> The thing that strikes me as odd is how people assume that others don't believe in God or worship Him in a way that's pleasing to Him simply because they don't identify as Christians. Let's take the Native Americans as an example. They've been here for at least 12,000 years. God created all of us, so He created them, too. They developed religions and morality based on their appreciation for the things God allowed them to perceive. Obviously God didn't have a problem with it because He didn't wipe them out with a flood, plaque, etc. Along comes the Bible, Jesus, and Christianity thousands of years later. They were no where near where all of that happened and didn't have access to CNN to hear the breaking news. Does that mean that they were automatically pagans who didn't care about God and were worthy of His and everyone's disdain just because they didn't know the Hebrew word for this or that, have access to the newly written Bible, etc.? I find that difficult to believe and I really find it difficult to believe that God would be pleased with us killing and raping them nearly out of existence. I'm a Christian, but I prefer not to throw stones at other religions. I don't presume to know God's plan for them and will leave it up to Him to execute it (and them if He sees fit). After all, I'd hate to stand before Him one day and have to explain why I did X, Y, or Z to His children when He allowed them to do things that I simply didn't understand. As for all of "them" being bad. Well, we don't exactly have a great track record for being so good, either.


You have some bad theology and logic

God did not wipe out hitler does that mean he approved of his actions??

If different groups describe God different then they are talking about a different god

there can only be ONE almighty God

you could know God's will.... jesus talks about it a lot

Jesus told his disciples.. go and make disciples..teaching them ALL that I taught you... have you been discipled and taught all he taught them

not all people are HIS CHILDREN... and God not LOVE everybody... I know people like to say that... but it is not biblical.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

Doc Holliday said:


> I wish I could get into Christmas like I used to, my kids are grown and although I have 2 grandsons.. its hard to get into the spirit of Christmas when you suffer from depression, anxiety and anger issues.
> 
> I am Christian, but right now me and the big guy are having a little argument.... he wants to use me as his favorite kick toy and Im tired of dealing with all the pain. :miserable:


I know...


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## jdjones3109 (Oct 28, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> not all people are HIS CHILDREN... and God [does] not LOVE everybody... I know people like to say that... but it is not biblical.


Wow! Are you a Christian who goes to church (and listens) and studies from a Bible that isn't in the first or second edition and translated by someone who doesn't know Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek? There's nothing wrong if you don't, but I'd be nice to know.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

My rich old uncle Jake didn't give presents for Christmas because he always said it was Jesus' Birthday and not a time to give gifts. No Christmas.


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