# PROOF the AK is junk



## Rwurbanwildlife

the AK is junk compared to the AR.

It is obvious the AR is superior to the AK.


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## SDF880

I have both and they do what I ask of them, no problems here! 
Many downrange shots and I have never had either fail me!


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## Smitty901

Having used both.
The AR / M4 is a better weapon The Ak has no range it is a close combat weapon only. While it is a 30 caliber the 7.62X39 has a fast drop and loses it's energy fast. The AK has earned it's due. It is a lose weapon that can take a lot of dirt ,sand and neglect. It is heavy and so is the ammo.
The AR is good up close but can reach out depending on shooter skills to 500-600 meters. Twice what the AK can and still make a kill .
The Modern M4/ AR function very well in a dirty environment. It does like a wet bolt. The gas piston version does away with any issue with that and runs much cleaner. The M4/AR is lighter and allow for much quicker and easier mounting of sights, scopes and night vision devices.
The AK like so many weapons is highly over rated the myth is lives by is built on hype and misinformation.
7.62X39 so much for the mythical 600 meter shot with one.


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## Smitty901

Having used both.
The AR / M4 is a better weapon The Ak has no range it is a close combat weapon only. While it is a 30 caliber the 7.62X39 has a fast drop and loses it's energy fast. The AK has earned it's due. It is a lose weapon that can take a lot of dirt ,sand and neglect. It is heavy and so is the ammo.
The AR is good up close but can reach out depending on shooter skills to 500-600 meters. Twice what the AK can and still make a kill .
The Modern M4/ AR function very well in a dirty environment. It does like a wet bolt. The gas piston version does away with any issue with that and runs much cleaner. The M4/AR is lighter and allow for much quicker and easier mounting of sights, scopes and night vision devices.
The AK like so many weapons is highly over rated the myth is lives by is built on hype and misinformation.
7.62X39 so much for the mythical 600 meter shot with one.
View attachment 4564


The next generation M4 should have a gas piston


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## Beach Kowboy

I have never been a fan of the AK myself. I hear guys say they will take an AK or SKS over an AR/M4 but I am not on that list. Although I don't think the 5.56 is the best round. I would much rather use it over the 7.62/39 especially in a combat situation.


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## Denton

I've had an AK for 20 years. I expect to be keeping it for another 20. Not concerned with opinions. I understand the limitations of the rifle, and it, like all weapons, has limitations as well as strengths. It works for me and for where I will employ it.


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## Just Sayin'

I don't want to get shot with either one of them. Both will do the job within 200 meters, no questions asked.
Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. When the chips are down, I'll take the AR over the AK.
I can still take the 400 meter shot with an AR and be pretty sure that it will be a hit. Can't say that with an AK.


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## HuntingHawk

Both have their strengths & weaknesses as does any firearm.


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## jimb1972

I own both, I have built both. The AR is easier to build, the AK uses a more effective round. I would not feel poorly armed with either, but if I needed to bring down a deer to feed my family I would prefer the AK. If I were being attacked by homicidal rodents the AR would be my pick. I can't see over 300 yards so any difference in accuracy is not a real benefit for me.


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## Montana Rancher

Rwurbanwildlife said:


> the AK is junk compared to the AR.
> 
> It is obvious the AR is superior to the AK.


I love (sic) quotes with no sense of concept

"the south will rise again"

"republicans are better than democrats"

"the M1911 will always be the militaries side arm"

"Global warming"

This is a stupid post, for every benefit to the AR there is a decent rebuff, can we all agree that each weapon had it's own useful purpose?

Of course not, that would be too... partisan.


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## dsdmmat

The sky is falling......

Having fired both military weapons not just the civilian versions. I can honestly say I would rather not be shot by either. I did manage to hit a steel ram at 500 yards with my AK 3 times out of 30 by walking it in on the target.


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## Smitty901

I have been shot at more than once with the AK 47 the 7.62X39 will not make the 500 meter shot .
One of the first things you learn is stand off range.
That is quickly defined as the range at witch my weapon will shoot you and yours a can not hit me.
M4/AK that is 250-400 meters advantage to the M4 platform.


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## sparkyprep

I have never owned an AK, but I have shot a few. This weapon, like any other, has values, and limitations. You have to respect the rifle that "turns peasants into rebels". I love my AR, and have had not one single malfunction in thousands of down range rounds. It is gas piston, and I am anal about keeping it clean and lubed.


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## Rigged for Quiet

Both will save your life if you know how to use them. A very telling statement in the linked thread was about how you will never see an AK in a 3 gun competition. 

If you have never shot a 3 gun competition it's well worth doing.


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## Rigged for Quiet

sparkyprep said:


> <snip> and I am anal about keeping it clean and lubed.


:-o I blame a fever and lack of quality sleep for my depravity.


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## The Resister

I think Lee Ermey has a video posted on YouTube wherein he pits the AK against the AR. In that test, the AK did better in most areas of close combat except accuracy. But, really it's an oranges versus apples issue. At close range the AK round performs better in terms of lethality. The AR is more accurate. The AK has the fewest FTF issues... but, maybe the gas piston versions eliminate the AK advantage there. 

Whatever you choose to carry to defend your life with, make sure you trust YOUR life with it and only YOU know which weapon meets your needs and what value you put on your life.


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## Tennessee

Don’t get me wrong I love my AR’s but you will never convince me that the AR is more reliable than an AK. If you like me to prove it to you just meet me at the range. People who think otherwise are looking through AR colored glasses.


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## Notsoyoung

I think that many of the arguments over which is better is immaterial. Yes, at 500 yds the AR is more accurate, but if in your area due to terrain or foliage or because of your limitations you would seldom if ever engage targets over 250 yds, just how important is that to you? Yes the AK is probably more reliable then the AR, but how often would you fire 500 rds through your AR without putting some oil on the bolt and just how long does it take to break down the AR and lube the bolt? At short range (under 250 yds) the AK round produces a higher kinetic energy, but it drops off very quickly. 

I will readily admit that I am biased in favor of the AR. Being able to engage targets out to 500 yds if needed is important to me. I feel that the 5.56/.223 round produces enough energy for my needs, and the ability to carry more of the lighter 5.56/.223 rounds is significant to me. I would like to point out that Russian troops are armed with the AK-74 with it's lighter rounds instead of the heavier AK-47. I really don't feel the need to have a rifle that I don't really need to clean for long periods of time. I think I can find 5 or 10 minutes every day or two to wipe off the bolt, put some oil on it, and run a patch down the barrel. I also believe that although the 7.62 x 39mm round is becoming more popular, it will never reach the same availability as the 5.56/.223 rounds here in the United States. In my case what is a major factor is that I used the M-16A2 or A3 during my 20 years in the Army so I am very familiar with the AR-15. I know it, I like it, and most importantly I can hit what I shoot at with it, but that is ME. I believe that in many cases it simply boils down to what you want your firearm to do, what it is like where you live, and how comfortable you are with a particular firearm. Sometimes it seems to me it's like two guys arguing which is better, a Ford or a Chevy (obviously the right answer is Ford).


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## Smitty901

I own more than one of both. I hope when they come for me they have Ak's I will carrying the AR.


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## rice paddy daddy

What is the obsession with 500yard shots? If I'm coming for you, you aren't even going to see me until much closer.
And if range and dependability are the major criteria my K98k Mauser beats them both. Plus added lethality.


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## Arizona Infidel

I don't really have a use for either. If they are "coming for me" I am sure I don't have much longer to be breathing anyway, so the trusty old Winchester, or the trusty old Remy 700, and a 1911 or a revolver will serve me just as well.


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## ekim

Arizona Infidel said:


> I don't really have a use for either. If they are "coming for me" I am sure I don't have much longer to be breathing anyway, so the trusty old Winchester, or the trusty old Remy 700, and a 1911 or a revolver will serve me just as well.


But you have to admit that the ability to throw 20/30 rounds many times over down range very quickly is somewhat of a deterrent. And either weapons platform will do that!


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## Smitty901

I want to go on record. I never said the AK was junk. Just disagree with comparing it to an AR. Different weapons .
I have burnt up many 7.62X39 in this one . My others tend to stay locked up. Disassembled and parts store in different locations


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## Denton

Smitty901 said:


> I want to go on record. I never said the AK was junk. Just disagree with comparing it to an AR. Different weapons .
> I have burnt up many 7.62X39 in this one . My others tend to stay locked up. Disassembled and parts store in different locations
> View attachment 4568


That's a beautiful rifle, Top!


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## Arizona Infidel

ekim said:


> But you have to admit that the ability to throw 20/30 rounds many times over down range very quickly is somewhat of a deterrent. And either weapons platform will do that!


A deterrent to what?


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## ekim

Arizona Infidel said:


> A deterrent to what?


Maybe rushing up to your front door!


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## Arizona Infidel

ekim said:


> Maybe rushing up to your front door!


Do you remember what happened to Randy Weaver and the Branch Dividians?


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## Smitty901

Denton said:


> That's a beautiful rifle, Top!


Meet her brother.


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## Smitty901

Arizona Infidel said:


> Do you remember what happened to Randy Weaver and the Branch Dividians?


Yep they murdered his wife and Randy gave them a very hard time.
Branch Dividians they just murdered them.


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## Arizona Infidel

Smitty901 said:


> Yep they murdered his wife and Randy gave them a very hard time.
> Branch Dividians they just murdered them.


Exactly.


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## csi-tech

I have both. The op referenced a post on another site that called the AK "junk". There are detractors and attributes to both platforms. Neither is remotely junk. For me, the AR15 is more versatile. I have my light and pressure switch on it, a vertical grip and can clean it without removing the scope. It is a perfect entry weapon and patrol carbine. It is reliable and accurate. I am not, however, a fan of the .223 round that it shoots. It is by no means a "tack driver" either. At 100 yards I can guarantee a solid head shot, but that's about it. The magazines are lightweight and not very durable.

My Century N pap Kalashnikov is reliable, accurate and fun to shoot. I have a side mounted red dot scope on it that has to come off every time I clean it. At 100 yards it shoots essentially the same groups as the Bushmaster. It is sort of a one trick pony and would make a terrible entry weapon as you can't mount anything on it and if you did, the bi metal 7.62x39 would sail through walls, cars, cargo ships and an entire redwood forest. I like the x39 much more than the .223 for general purposes. It would be overpowered for a patrol carbine but would be exceptional as a combat rifle. The magazines are rock solid and would double as great impact weapons.

In short: Both weapons excel inside 100 yards. I would grab the AR first though because it's so versatile. If I was told I was about to HALO into a jungle during monsoon season and be there for a while it's a no brainer. AK.


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## Scotty12

You can get a REAL Krebs custom for around 2000.00 I think. I'm not a fan of AKs either but I have a Polytech that is worth more than I paid for it. My MBR is a DPMS Recon .308. I have a cheap Romania AK that has never jammed. Problem is the front sight post is canted and I can't hit shit with it.


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## Maxxdad

I've trained people who were armed primarily with the AK. It's ease of use and durability are a plus when dealing with people of limited training or education. Or in situations where maintenance is lacking. Even through an interpreter teaching the AK or SKS is easy stuff. Graduated sights to 800 meters? Please... I prefer the AR myself. I do have some concerns with the 5.56. I have seen folks (with limited body mass) take a hit with the 5.56 and had them run or continue to shoot until hit again. Kind of like a hit by 9mm ball. Yes eventually they will hemorrhage and die. It's that eventually thing that bothers me.

The AK definitely has it's place.


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## Just Sayin'

Notsoyoung said:


> I think that many of the arguments over which is better is immaterial. Yes, at 500 yds the AR is more accurate, but if in your area due to terrain or foliage or because of your limitations you would seldom if ever engage targets over 250 yds, just how important is that to you? Yes the AK is probably more reliable then the AR, but how often would you fire 500 rds through your AR without putting some oil on the bolt and just how long does it take to break down the AR and lube the bolt? At short range (under 250 yds) the AK round produces a higher kinetic energy, but it drops off very quickly.
> 
> I will readily admit that I am biased in favor of the AR. Being able to engage targets out to 500 yds if needed is important to me. I feel that the 5.56/.223 round produces enough energy for my needs, and the ability to carry more of the lighter 5.56/.223 rounds is significant to me. I would like to point out that Russian troops are armed with the AK-74 with it's lighter rounds instead of the heavier AK-47. I really don't feel the need to have a rifle that I don't really need to clean for long periods of time. I think I can find 5 or 10 minutes every day or two to wipe off the bolt, put some oil on it, and run a patch down the barrel. I also believe that although the 7.62 x 39mm round is becoming more popular, it will never reach the same availability as the 5.56/.223 rounds here in the United States. In my case what is a major factor is that I used the M-16A2 or A3 during my 20 years in the Army so I am very familiar with the AR-15. I know it, I like it, and most importantly I can hit what I shoot at with it, but that is ME. I believe that in many cases it simply boils down to what you want your firearm to do, what it is like where you live, and how comfortable you are with a particular firearm. Sometimes it seems to me it's like two guys arguing which is better, a Ford or a Chevy (obviously the right answer is Ford).


I almost hit the like button, and then read the last line. You were making so much sense right up until then! :lol:


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## dsdmmat

Just Sayin' said:


> I almost hit the like button, and then read the last line. You were making so much sense right up until then! :lol:


Well he is right, Ford didn't take the Government Bailout...... :suppliesonforklift:


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## Seneca

I actually like both the AR and the AK, I also have both and don't happen to think either is junk. They are simply different that's all. So what's the point of slamming the AK? Somebody not getting enough fiber in their diet?


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## bad

I like both weapons. The AK has more impact. For those who say that the AR is too complicated to maintain, I would refer them to Youtube for videos of pre-teens tearing down their ARs.


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## ekim

To say the AK is junk is to say the AR was designed from junk, just modified, and it took quite a few years to fix what the AR became, more AK in design so it could be more dependable. I had an AR 36 year ago, lots of fun to shoot, pretty accurate, but dam would it go through the ammo with the happy switch in the right mode. Still sorry I got rid of it, but we all make dumb moves. I won't spend the money to replace it now though. Those poor ground hogs never knew what hit them. My AK now will do what my AR did back then and there is no comparison to the cost for what it will do, and it's fun to shoot also, but it doesn't have the happy mode the AR did, not as fast on the fire power, but it to will spit out the lead, just have to flex the trigger finger more. I love finger exercise!


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## ekim

To say the AK is junk is to say the AR was designed from junk, just modified, and it took quite a few years to fix what the AR became, more AK in design so it could be more dependable. I had an AR 36 year ago, lots of fun to shoot, pretty accurate, but dam would it go through the ammo with the happy switch in the right mode. Still sorry I got rid of it, but we all make dumb moves. I won't spend the money to replace it now though. Those poor ground hogs never knew what hit them. My AK now will do what my AR did back then and there is no comparison to the cost for what it will do, and it's fun to shoot also, but it doesn't have the happy mode the AR did. Not as fast on the fire power, but it to will spit out the lead, just have to flex the trigger finger more. I love finger exercise!

I wonder why the Russians seem to be converting many of their weapons to the same caliber as the US military though. There must be a place where they get together and talk over whats the best caliber for all to use. Strange how government controlled military's copy each other!


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## csi-tech

I saw a video of Russian kids field stripping an AK the other day too. It took me a matter of minutes to learn each weapon system the a few days of self-imposed drills to run them. Both guns have been modified to correct their perceived short comings. The Russians built the AK 74 effectively mimicking the AR 15s smaller round and the AR has been up chambered to shoot all sorts of larger rounds a la AK 47. None of the big battle rifles ever caught on because of their utter "uncontrollability" in full auto mode. The FN FAL and The H&K 91 are still being widely used but most find them unwieldy heavy and can't carry enough rounds.

The closest thing to perfection in my humble opinion would be a high quality AR chambered in .300 Blackout. You can carry as many rounds as you could in .223 because they use the same brass and they shoot a .30 caliber bullet. I prefer the .300 whisper but it is not SAAMI recognized. The only hole in my theory is that .300 Blackout is virtually impossible to find and is way more expensive than .223. I guess I'm stuck.


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## rice paddy daddy

bad said:


> I like both weapons. The AK has more impact. For those who say that the AR is too complicated to maintain, I would refer them to Youtube for videos of pre-teens tearing down their ARs.


Phhhhht! Can she do it blindfolded? With The Drill Sergeant From Hell standing over her and loudly berating and cursing her?
Or better yet, in the dark with a monsoon rain while bad guys are trying to kill her? 
At least with an AK, field stripping it in the heat of battle wouldn't even become an issue.


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## bad

I have been taking them (First the M16A1 and then the AR15) apart and back together since the good old days (not) in 1970. Nothing here says that she "can't" take it apart and put it together in the dark. Might be hard to film though. 

I am pretty proud to see young people being able to do it.


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## ekim

And this is proof that the AK is junk "HOW" so this prove what point? Can we get farther away from the origin of the post.


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## rice paddy daddy

ekim said:


> And this is proof that the AK is junk "HOW" so this prove what point? Can we get farther away from the origin of the post.


There never has been any "proof", just opinion.

"Mine's better than yours. Nananana".


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## ekim

rice paddy daddy said:


> There never has been any "proof", just opinion.
> 
> "Mine's better than yours. Nananana".


Thank you, now I know what to think, dam you are so smart.....:wink: I learn so much on internet forums, the hell with personal experience. What's the number, 60 million pieces of junk that have worked for how many years!


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## rice paddy daddy

ekim said:


> Thank you, now I know what to think, dam you are so smart.....:wink: I learn so much on internet forums, the hell with personal experience. What's the number, 60 million pieces of junk that have worked for how many years!


The M16 was forced upon the Army and Marines by Robert MacNamara, LBJ's secretary of Defense. It was originally adopted by the Air Force to be used by airmen guarding the flight lines. Hardly the type of duty it would be asked to perform in the jungles of Vietnam.
In the beginning its poor design for a tropical battlefield killed Americans.
As a result of 40 years of re-engineering we now have a weapon that is effective, somewhat anyway.
Personal experience? Yes, I have some experience with the M16A1. Because of that experience I do not care to own an AR. 
But I do not denigrate or deride others who own and enjoy them.


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## Seneca

csi-tech
Actually you are not stuck, if you reload and are willing to do a bit of work. There are a couple of good videos floating around about making 300 blackout cartridges from .223 brass. Looks to be a fairly simple and straight forward process. Since I'm interested in possibly getting a .300 blackout upper I did a little research on it.

One of many videos on the how to of making 300 blackout brass.


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## rice paddy daddy

I just came across this link while visting another forum, but it is recent (just 2 weeks ago) and speaks to current issues with the M4.
Troops left to fend for themselves after Army was warned of flaws in M4 carbine assault rifle - Washington Times
Contains several links in the text worth reading as well.


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## ekim

rice paddy daddy said:


> The M16 was forced upon the Army and Marines by Robert MacNamara, LBJ's secretary of Defense. It was originally adopted by the Air Force to be used by airmen guarding the flight lines. Hardly the type of duty it would be asked to perform in the jungles of Vietnam.
> In the beginning its poor design for a tropical battlefield killed Americans.
> As a result of 40 years of re-engineering we now have a weapon that is effective, somewhat anyway.
> Personal experience? Yes, I have some experience with the M16A1. Because of that experience I do not care to own an AR.
> But I do not denigrate or deride others who own and enjoy them.


I too had an M16 as a private citizen for a short time, but I never had an ounce of trouble. But I wasn't in a jungle fighting for my life and I didn't drag it through the dirt,sand,mud,rain etc. My AK (Saiga) was bought second hand for $200. I would never pay the current prices for a new AK or an AR. If the SHTF, I don't think it will be hard to acquire more good weapons for a lot less money if it comes to that. But I digress.


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## bad

How did you have an M16 as a private citizen? Maybe I shouldn't ask. That is too cool. Flip the switch over to bazaaro and let her rock.



ekim said:


> I too had an M16 as a private citizen for a short time, but I never had an ounce of trouble. But I wasn't in a jungle fighting for my life and I didn't drag it through the dirt,sand,mud,rain etc. My AK (Saiga) was bought second hand for $200. I would never pay the current prices for a new AK or an AR. If the SHTF, I don't think it will be hard to acquire more good weapons for a lot less money if it comes to that. But I digress.


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## ekim

bad said:


> How did you have an M16 as a private citizen? Maybe I shouldn't ask. That is too cool. Flip the switch over to bazaaro and let her rock.


There are still full auto/machineguns legal for sale in the US now, though they are very expensive now - more so than 36 years ago. With some money and some paperwork to the BATF it is all legal but time consuming. IMO, not worth the headaches now though, especially at my age.


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## 6811

I had 4 different AK's at one time. I had the chinese, romanian, egyptian and bulgarian. I also got the romanian dragunov at one time. I got rid of all of them to include the sks'... to me they were all junk, they were crudely made and inacurate. yes they do function in the worst conditions but if you cant hit anything with it, then what's the point. If a US manufacturer starts making an all US made AK, maybe I will consider getting one. other than that, I wont own one.

I feel comfortable with the ARs, I have 4 in my household. Armalite, Sig Sauer, and 2 DPMS (1 was modified to be piston and the other is gas operated.)




P.S. 

Ok I really felt guilty writting bad about the AK. Maybe I will acquire me a Yugoslavian AK and give that a shot and see if I would like it.


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## rice paddy daddy

mhans827 said:


> .........If a US manufacturer starts making an all US made AK, maybe I will consider getting one. other than that, I wont own one.


ioinc - Home
Made in the U.S.. I've never even seen one, don't know about them.
They also claim to make an AR "retro" featuring "ORIGINAL Vietnam era Colt parts".


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## SDF880

I believe Inter Ordinance makes US made AK's . There is another company that also makes them but I'm drawing a blank right now.

Inter Ordnance AK47, 7.62x39, Laminate Stock, 30 Rnd Mag - Impact Guns

I believe Kahr Arms purchased Inter Ordinance recently.


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## Smitty901

One of the the things that makes an AK work as it does is the slop if you want to call it that. The weapon has a lot of room for dirt . Not a fine tuned machine it is an early Mack truck. Not made to drive tacks but send 30 caliber lead out the barrel quickly in bad conditions with little maintenance.
It works. At the ranges it was designed for shooting sub to 3 MOA was not an issue. 
Just because I do not rate something near the top does not mean it has no place in the fight. 
If you sort out the BS about early M16 issue weapons one of the issues was it was made to well the tolerances were to tight for a weapon that was One not cleaned well and often and two being fed inconsistent ammo that was at times not the cleanest. There also was the politics that wanted it to fail . Soldiers often had not received proper training in the maintenance of the M16.
While both are infantry combat weapons they take different paths from there on.


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## ekim

Smitty901 said:


> One of the the things that makes an AK work as it does is the slop if you want to call it that. The weapon has a lot of room for dirt . Not a fine tuned machine it is an early Mack truck. Not made to drive tacks but send 30 caliber lead out the barrel quickly in bad conditions with little maintenance.
> It works. At the ranges it was designed for shooting sub to 3 MOA was not an issue.
> Just because I do not rate something near the top does not mean it has no place in the fight.
> If you sort out the BS about early M16 issue weapons one of the issues was it was made to well the tolerances were to tight for a weapon that was One not cleaned well and often and two being fed inconsistent ammo that was at times not the cleanest. There also was the politics that wanted it to fail . Soldiers often had not received proper training in the maintenance of the M16.
> While both are infantry combat weapons they take different paths from there on.


I agree 100% with this post. The M16 wasn't even issued as designed and then they changed the powder used in the ammo. It was doomed from the start. Then being told as not needing to be clean in the field, as a cleaning kit nor instructions were not even included. How stupid can a government agency be. I guess that's what you get when you put a bunch of dumb college kids in charge of something they know nothing about.


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## Deebo

Ok, I have no dog in this fight, but I will state, for the record, ANYONE that wants, can send me their AR or their AK, and I will treat either with love and respect. I promise.


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## ekim

Deebo said:


> Ok, I have no dog in this fight, but I will state, for the record, ANYONE that wants, can send me their AR or their AK, and I will treat either with love and respect. I promise.


And I'll take all the left overs. Even the crappy original M16's.


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## Montana Rancher

Ok, I know I dissed an earlier post but only because the AK platform has a reasonable use

1. if you want to build a combat rifle that is substandard in every instance, but you can turn said rifle out so cheap than any ignorant person can carry one and shoot it with reasonable accuracy then you would vote for he AK

2. If you want to build a combat rifle that has exceptional accuracy, needs to be better maintained, and has a superior sight system, then I would go with the AR

I have both weapons systems and when it comes to killing praire dogs at 300+ yards, my AR will do the job, my AK will only run them off their mounds.

I know that is a generic assessment of the capabilities, but I am secure in the thought that it is accurate.


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## csi-tech

The Centurion is a milled AK 47 made by Century. It is 100% USA made from US parts. I would avoid IO inc. If at all possible. The Centurion is also the least expensive AK with a milled receiver that I have ever seen. They also manufacture the Centurion with laminated black and blonde furniture. It's next on my want list.

Centurion 39 Milled AK 47 Rifle


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## Scotty12

I have a buddy who has a Romanian Dragunov knockoff (PSL 54). I was hitting soda cans at 300 yds. with it.


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## rice paddy daddy

The only reason I bought an AKM was when the Democratic nominees got down to Hillary and Obama in 2008, I figured whichever one got in they wouldn't want me to have one. So I got a Romanian WASR 10, a good one with out the dreaded sight cant or gas block cant, for $319. Complete with military issue cleaning kit, sling, bayonet, two magazines, magazine pouch.
It works just fine, too.

Oh, yeah - I got it at my local Ace Hardware. If your local Ace Hardware doesn't sell AK's and AR's you obviously live in the wrong part of the country.::clapping::


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## csi-tech

The political climate pushed me in that direction too. Diane Feinstein made her extensive list of the "weapons I want to collect" so I did my own collecting.


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## rickkyw1720pf

M16 and Ak47 were made for different types of soldiers. The M16 was made with tighter tolerances to be more accurate. The tighter tolerances require that the chamber be cleaner than the looser tolerance AK47. It also requires more training to get the best results out of it. It was designed to be fired mainly in semi auto with the ability for full auto hence the safety goes from safe to semi the auto. The Ak47 was made so that it could be handed out to the untrained and still be a viable threat to trained soldiers. Millions were given to any country that joined the old Soviet Union they were shipped with a case of 2000 rnds each. They were more a point and fire weapon hence the safety goes from safe to full auto then semi. The countries around the world that could afford it used AR-16's and the poor countries used AK-47. As for the debate which is a better rnd the 5.56x45 or the 7.62x39 I think that has been settled since both Russia and China and almost every modern army has switched to rnds that closely mach the 5.56x45.


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## rickkyw1720pf

mhans827 said:


> I had 4 different AK's at one time. I had the chinese, romanian, egyptian and bulgarian. I also got the romanian dragunov at one time. I got rid of all of them to include the sks'... to me they were all junk, they were crudely made and inacurate. yes they do function in the worst conditions but if you cant hit anything with it, then what's the point. If a US manufacturer starts making an all US made AK, maybe I will consider getting one. other than that, I wont own one.
> 
> I feel comfortable with the ARs, I have 4 in my household. Armalite, Sig Sauer, and 2 DPMS (1 was modified to be piston and the other is gas operated.)
> 
> P.S.
> 
> Ok I really felt guilty writting bad about the AK. Maybe I will acquire me a Yugoslavian AK and give that a shot and see if I would like it.


Probably the best AK made is the Israeli Galil which can be bought in either 5.56x45 or 7.62x51.


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## csi-tech

I wouldn't rule out the Yugoslavian O pap and N pap. The O paps have a reinforced trunnion/RPK receiver and the N pap is based on an AKM design. Both are beefy and very reliable. Like the early Armalite AR's they do not have chrome lined barrels. They are somewhat more accurate but need to be cleaned from time to time.


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