# Why Washington State Needs Military Vehicles



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Listen to this deputy talking about "taking fire from the _enemy_" and who the enemy is. It is you.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

It's shame that "constitutionalists" has been denigrated to equate to terrorist or extremist. Shouldn't every American be a constitutionalists? Is't it that document that expresses our God given freedoms and limits what Government can take away from us? 

To them, or at least this guy, it's not..It's the Government that grants freedoms for the people.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

this is a common site around here. I and a lot of other I talk with think more often and more of them.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Constitutionalist's? 

So if you believe in the Constitution, and those pesky little rights they guarantee us in it, you're the enemy? I'm not sure I follow, because it's my understanding, that the folks driving that piece of equipment actually took an oath to protect the Constitution as well as enforce the law. I did when I was sworn in. 

So if THEY took the oath, wouldn't that in essence make them "Constitutionalist's" and therefore, "enemies"? 

Anyone else here feel that they should be the first ones to experience that piece of equipment, since THEY too, are the enemy?


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## SquirrelBait (Jun 6, 2014)

Some one needs to remind that lunkhead that "The enemy" is paying his salary.

*SIGH*

When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail...


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## jeep123 (Nov 6, 2014)

What are they teaching law enforcement about the constitution that he would think that? 
Garbage.


I could contest this man's assumptions, but I would be using the common law and the constitution, which he doesn't respect.............


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Law enforcement is taught little about the constitution. The constitution is viewed through certain supreme court decisions search, seizure and arrest. The notion that cops are whiz-bangers at the constitution is outside the realm of practicality, considering what little time they have at academy. Besides, why would you instruct peace officers in all thing constitutional if you wanted them to be police officers who are more concerned with codes, regulations and unconstitutional statutes?

Yes, that "Anti-constitutionalist deputy took the same oath I and several others of us took. Guess what. All of us have violated that oath. All of us served masters we didn't recognize. This particular cat seems to be very secure in the notion that those who are pro-constitution are bad guys, and anyone who is against the "system" is not a citizen, but the enemy.

Paramilitary soldier cops. Really; did you think all of this was about protecting the constitution from enemies from the East?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Washington state you say?


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## jeep123 (Nov 6, 2014)

Denton,

I know, a little. I've read enough about statute and code to defeat traffic tickets, so I have a general appreciation for the appearance of law (traffic courts) and the difference between lawful and legal. I still register my car and pay insurance because although I know I don't have to, I expect every cop would seize my car - even the ones i know.

This is a little different though. If nothing else, it should be "constitution, good" and "socialists, bad". Ideally, honest cops would look at constitutionalists as allies.
So the question is, are these deputies ignorant and obedient? (obeying unjust commands) Or is it a "screw the law, we're the cops" mindset? Or finally, how many are "wise", and just have no conscience anymore?

No, i didn't think that.


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## OctopusPrime (Dec 2, 2014)

They should use those armored cars to reinforce the border with Canada. Those pesky Canadians are a dangerous breed . 

In all seriousness I am disturbed by this new trend of viewing certain segments of the population, who are patriots most likely, as "The Enemy".


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Denton,
I watched the video,
I kind of wished I hadn't. 
What a clueless fool, I bet (hope) somebody in his department sat the lad down and had a heart to heart talk with him after this video hit the net.


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## oldgrouch (Jul 11, 2014)

I must be a double threat: constitutionalist AND a "radicalized" Christian! Surely there must be some vets out there who have some ideas on how to take out these vehicles. Well. we are slowly losing the Constitution: 4th Amendment is about gone and there are constant attacks on the 1st and 2nd Amendments. THe 10 Amendment was neutered years ago. Taking property without due process ---- 5th Amendment? And the beat goes on.....


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Is it lost on anyone else that this guy is doing a meet and greet at wally world? Maybe it can also be overlooked that you can walk into that store and walk out with an ammo can filled with 500 rounds of .223


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I don't know why you all think this is odd. This is what most cops I have run into are like.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> I don't know why you all think this is odd. This is what most cops I have run into are like.


Diver my friend,

You have got to get the hell out of wherever it is in New Jersey that you live. I stand by my belief (based upon experience) that the further one gets from municipalities that are run by progressive democrat socialists, the much more Freedom Minded, Fair and Just are the Law Enforcement Officers.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

There you go . He is the kind of so called LEO push agenda and not being a LEO. He is why we have so many that are labeled anit LE. We are not against LE we are against HIM and his kind . He is what the education system is trying to turn LE into.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Think you may be missing some of his point. It's not that long ago on this site we had a gent that Identified himself as a constitutionalist, who had very severe anger issues who was himself linked to some very extremist and violent individuals.. And wasn't the lad that killed the State Trooper in PA a constitutionalist/survivalist. Or the two in Nevada that the folks confronting the feds on the grazing rights issue wanted no part of.

Are these folks representative of us? You tell me. Those are just four individuals that come to mind very quickly. Remember we are only a very few folks out of a very large country.

And let's not forget the North Hollywood bank robbery a couple of years ago.

Do law enforcement need these tools to help resolve situations. Town of Quantico population 700; 0.1 Square Miles (that right) = no. Fairfax county almost a million folks and 300 plus square miles = maybe.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Sarge,
The complicit evil media uses these labels to further their socialist agenda. 

We are still seeing incorrect headlines about the crap in Ferguson MO that usually say, "Unarmed Black Teen who was killed by White Officer" instead of the accurate headline, "Man who attacked Officer and tried to kill Officer with Officer's Weapon, Killed for being a stupid thug".


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Because I am a white male, that has faith in God, owns a weapon, goes to work most every day pays my bills and taxes. Does not depend on government hand outs to get by. A veteran I am the number one evil in America declared and still supported by DHS . The constitution is no longer relevant and does not apply anymore that was declared with the installation of king Obama. But the education system has been working up to it for years.
You point out one of two nut cases for everyone you can point out I will sight 100's of unconstitutional acts by LE and government that help to breed their kind. 
If it gets to the point we need US Army type entry and quick reaction teams in our cities . Socialism has already taken us down. Deal with the problems before they get that far. We have entire parts of major cities now run by gangs and all that is done about it is town hall meeting.
It is not people like me that are the problem and you will not get away with trying to say so.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

SARGE7402 said:


> Think you may be missing some of his point. It's not that long ago on this site we had a gent that Identified himself as a constitutionalist, who had very severe anger issues who was himself linked to some very extremist and violent individuals.. And wasn't the lad that killed the State Trooper in PA a constitutionalist/survivalist. Or the two in Nevada that the folks confronting the feds on the grazing rights issue wanted no part of.
> 
> Are these folks representative of us? You tell me. Those are just four individuals that come to mind very quickly. Remember we are only a very few folks out of a very large country.
> 
> ...


Absolutely not. No, I repeat, NO police entity needs a tank to use against American Citizens. The militarization of our police forces is the single biggest threat to our freedom when referring to "on the ground" problems.

We already have a massive problem with the training and attitude of police officers seeing the people they are sworn to serve as the "enemy", and you suggest that we give these jack-booted thugs tanks? What is next? Do we give them gunships to do drug raids? How about RPGs to do crowd control?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> Law enforcement is taught little about the constitution. The constitution is viewed through certain supreme court decisions search, seizure and arrest.


Yep... NEVER assume that the officer understand the laws better then you or even the police attorneys

The whole thing is good but from the 4:00 mark where they bring out 2 lawyers to TEACH the guy that he can not film in public... funny... the lawyers end up slinking away


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## cdell (Feb 27, 2014)

OctopusPrime said:


> They should use those armored cars to reinforce the border with Canada. Those pesky Canadians are a dangerous breed .
> 
> In all seriousness I am disturbed by this new trend of viewing certain segments of the population, who are patriots most likely, as "The Enemy".


We are just waiting for the right moment to invade from the North. Then we will impose stronger beer, poutine, maple syrup, and bacon upon our new citizens. Muahahahahahahaha


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I don't think all constitutionalist are radicalized, nor do I think all sheriff's deputies are bone heads. 

Yet there are some who meet that criteria.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

cdell said:


> We are just waiting for the right moment to invade from the North. Then we will impose stronger beer, poutine, maple syrup, and bacon upon our new citizens. Muahahahahahahaha


I will fully support the imposition of Canadian beer and definitely poutine. But if you try to mess with my good ol' American bacon, I will fight to the death!

As a side note: I am pretty sure poutine is one of the primary building blocks of the universe.


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## cdell (Feb 27, 2014)

Inor said:


> I will fully support the imposition of Canadian beer and definitely poutine. But if you try to mess with my good ol' American bacon, I will fight to the death!
> 
> As a side note: I am pretty sure poutine is one of the primary building blocks of the universe!
> 
> View attachment 8846


I was talking regular bacon, I think that Canadian bacon must be more of a Eastern thing, around here we call that ham or back bacon. I agree that poutine is definitely a building block of the universe! Some day NASA will prove this I am sure of it.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I have no problem pairing Poutine with a box of red or white table wine to impress my guests.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

cdell said:


> I was talking regular bacon, I think that Canadian bacon must be more of a Eastern thing, around here we call that ham or back bacon. I agree that poutine is definitely a building block of the universe! Some day NASA will prove this I am sure of it.


Then all is good. Come on down!


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

sparkyprep said:


> Absolutely not. No, I repeat, NO police entity needs a tank to use against American Citizens. The militarization of our police forces is the single biggest threat to our freedom when referring to "on the ground" problems.
> 
> We already have a massive problem with the training and attitude of police officers seeing the people they are sworn to serve as the "enemy", and you suggest that we give these jack-booted thugs tanks? What is next? Do we give them gunships to do drug raids? How about RPGs to do crowd control?


First it's not a tank - no more than an Armored Car that transports money is a tank. It's a way to protect the officers from high powered weapons - ie rifles. No more no less.

As far as being jack booted thugs, I really think you need to get your stories straight.

As far as training officers to see you as the enemy, they don't. Perhaps if you would care to look at a training program for police, you'll see that far from training officers to see you as the enemy. Heck my state even posts these standards VA DCJS -Virginia Criminal Justice Services Training Manual and Compulsory Minimum Training Standards .

Are there police that don't act appropriately? Sure. But you're going to see more folks that don't believe in our criminal justice system - just look at the protests on three civilian deaths two of which sitting grand juries found no basis to bring criminal charges against the officers. Instead of looking for officers that see you as the enemy how about looking at "Americans" that see our current system of government (including enforcement of the laws) as the enemy.

And one needs look no further that the POTUS to see the greatest enemy our country faces - a man that believes he and he alone is fit to decide what or laws should be.


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Some thermite could take these out. It would have to be in the right spot, and enough of it but it could take these things out.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

SARGE7402 said:


> First it's not a tank - no more than an Armored Car that transports money is a tank. It's a way to protect the officers from high powered weapons - ie rifles. No more no less.
> 
> As far as being jack booted thugs, I really think you need to get your stories straight.
> 
> ...


Please refer to-

Waco, Texas
California Highway Patrolman beats woman on side of road
Policeman shoots dead a 12 year old child with toy gun
Police raid on wrong house gravely injures infant in crib with flash-bang grenade
Police departments compiling unwarranted survailence data on innocents through use of liscense plate scanners.
Use of "Stingray" technology
1000% increase (approximately) in SWAT raids (now for minor infractions)

I could go on, but the propensity of stories and data could cause a system crash on the servers.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

SARGE7402 said:


> Instead of looking for officers that see you as the enemy how about looking at "Americans" that see our current system of government (including enforcement of the laws) as the enemy.
> 
> And one needs look no further that the POTUS to see the greatest enemy our country faces - a man that believes he and he alone is fit to decide what or laws should be.


Sarge -

I like you and I definitely will be buying you a beer the next time I am in Richmond. But you are really twisting yourself into a pretzel with the logic of your last two sentences. I think we can agree that our federal and some state governments are becoming the enemy of the American citizen. Depending on who you ask, they may already be our enemy. One needs to look no further than the corruption of the administration to acknowledge that. The police are becoming the enforcement arm of that corrupt government. It is not hard to see how a group of freedom minded folks would have a jaundiced eye towards the police.

Do I think all cops have transitioned to being the enforcement arm of the government? Absolutely not! I have stated many times here and will continue to state that I think the MOST important elected office in the country is the County Sheriff. As long as we elect Sheriffs that stand with the people and against the tyranny of big government, we will be fine. But it is disconcerting to see some of the city police departments becoming the enforcement arm of the city council and Mayors. That is why it made me VERY happy to read yesterday that the NYPD has disinvited Deblasio from attending NYPD funerals.

I feel bad for you guys; I really do. You are walking a fine line between trying to protect us and minimize crime, and being asked by federal, state and local governments to enforce laws that are borderline unconstitutional if not fully outside the bounds of the Constitution.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

No disrespect meant to LEO's in general (and those on this forum specifically), but most of the LEO's that I've spent time around haven't been the sharpest tools in the shed.

This militarization of the police is a scary prospect, as they for the most part will just 'follow orders', just like soldiers.

They have to 'armor up' to combat the worst possible thing they can imagine (and the feds will pay for it with grants). 

Then they have to use all that new hardware (or else why have it?).

So it is a self fulfilling prophecy that they will use more hardware/tactics than needed. 

What else would be expected?

One of my concerns after SHTF, is that I have a LEO in the neighborhood that would likely try to impose his 'leadership' on the area.

AJ


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Most LE will deny the class iii NFA exists. I always thought that was odd. Especially since there was a store selling mp5 by the grocery store. A block from the station.

And how do I sign up for a free mrap. Do they give them out free like diabetic testers. Does it come approved by Wilford Brimley? Do they have a toll free number?


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Diver my friend,
> 
> You have got to get the hell out of wherever it is in New Jersey that you live. I stand by my belief (based upon experience) that the further one gets from municipalities that are run by progressive democrat socialists, the much more Freedom Minded, Fair and Just are the Law Enforcement Officers.


Slippy, I sure hope you are right about this... I have lived here in Calif for the last 43 years and *every* LEO I have had met is exactly like the one in that video.

I want out of this police state, I want to go somewhere where my rights are not infringed every day by the people that were hired to protect my rights.

I have been told on many occasions to "shut up, I am the law" The LEO's around where I live actually think they are Judge Dred.

Unfortunately my move next year is only up to Oregon so Im sure I wont find the LEO's much better then here


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Think you may be missing some of his point. It's not that long ago on this site we had a gent that Identified himself as a constitutionalist, who had very severe anger issues who was himself linked to some very extremist and violent individuals.. And wasn't the lad that killed the State Trooper in PA a constitutionalist/survivalist. Or the two in Nevada that the folks confronting the feds on the grazing rights issue wanted no part of.
> 
> Are these folks representative of us? You tell me. Those are just four individuals that come to mind very quickly. Remember we are only a very few folks out of a very large country.
> 
> ...


The North Hollywood bank robbery was not a few years ago, but a few decades ago. It has been used as an excuse for turning cops into a domestic army ever since. Maybe someday there will be another such incident, but I don't think half of the currently serving LEOs can even remember the North Hollywood bank robbery. At this point, the North Hollywood bank robbery is ancient history.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Diver my friend,
> 
> You have got to get the hell out of wherever it is in New Jersey that you live. I stand by my belief (based upon experience) that the further one gets from municipalities that are run by progressive democrat socialists, the much more Freedom Minded, Fair and Just are the Law Enforcement Officers.


I agree that blue states are a mess, but guess what? I live in the USA and if you don't think my experience is headed your way, think again.

I live in a state where concealed carry does not exist for all practical purposes. There are even restrictions on transporting a firearm to the range. NJ cops enforce these clearly unconstitutional laws. Just being willing to serve in NJ essentially puts you in the same category with the guy in the video. This will happen everywhere eventually.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

None of this is good....


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> The North Hollywood bank robbery was not a few years ago, but a few decades ago. It has been used as an excuse for turning cops into a domestic army ever since. Maybe someday there will be another such incident, but I don't think half of the currently serving LEOs can even remember the North Hollywood bank robbery. At this point, the North Hollywood bank robbery is ancient history.


I guess our definition of a "few decades" isn't quite the same for you young whippersnappers - North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

And police having access to rifles isn't something new to this century. Seems like most officers had access to long guns all thru the 19th and early 20th Century.

As for who is the enemy: Man who ambushed cops had anti-government beliefs

Cops Ambushed Responding To Domestic Call (Video)

Ambush leaves 2 Vegas officers and Wal-Mart shopper dead; suspects also dead - LA Times

Eric Frein Update: Ambushed State Police Barracks Reopening To Public

Kentucky Cop Killed in 'Premeditated' Ambush - ABC News

Riverside police 'ambushed' by shooter, official says | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

? USATODAY.com


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I have nothing against cops having the same weapons I am allowed to own and carry. Their lives are worth as much as mine, no more, no less.

Oh yeah, I did mention there is no concealed carry, no open carry, etc. here didn't I and that they enforce those laws so they are essentially on the side of rendering everyone defenseless against their firepower.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

SARGE7402 said:


> I guess our definition of a "few decades" isn't quite the same for you young whippersnappers - North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
> 
> And police having access to rifles isn't something new to this century. Seems like most officers had access to long guns all thru the 19th and early 20th Century.
> 
> ...


I got to go with Diver on this one. By my calculations (on my fingers) the North Hollywood Massacre was about 18 years ago. Many of our soldiers, I mean _police_(it's getting hard to tell the difference) were children when that happened. Sarge, you rail against groups using things like the Sandy Hook Massacre to attack Second Amendment rights, but you are doing the exact same thing. The irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.


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