# When the dust settles and law arrives



## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

I want to tell you a true story. One that happened only a few weeks ago and after paying $2,000 in legal fees, is finally starting to get resolved.

It was 2am on a Saturday morning and I was taxi driving for Uber. I was about to go home when I received an alert. Someone needed to be picked up from a bar less than a quarter mile from my location. Hell, I figured this would be the last ride and I'd go home with good pay that night. Boy was I wrong....

I accepted the job, drove to the bar and picked up 2 illegal immigrants, man were they hammered...I figured It shouldn't be a problem. They only need to go 3 miles down the road, not bad for a last ride, so we buckled up and head out.

Not even 2 minutes into the ride they started throwing shit in the backseat of my BRAND NEW car. They were yelling and banging on the glass!

I kept my cool and stayed quiet. I wasn't about to enrage two grown men while my back was turned to them. So, I searched for place to park that was well lit and had an audience.

SCREEEEEEECH, I pulled over, near a hotdog stand, placed the car in park, got out of the car, opened the back door and forcefully spoke: GET THE [email protected]& OUT OF MY CAR!

Oh man were they surprised. But they were full of liquid courage too. They weren't about to let a ****** tell them what to do... and that's exactly what I expected...

The two men instantly started threatening me. As they got out of the car, I quickly got back in. But that wasn't enough... No, they had to come around to the driver seat while I was trying to get buckled in.

So, these drunkards thought they could drag me out of the car. They opened my door, punched me in the chin and thought they were gonna just have their way with me.

That's when they met my S&W M&P Performance Center 9mm. Oh man, the look on their face when I pulled that thing out. It was like the blood drained from their faces and their lips turned blue. They knew it was about to get sour

I knew that a blow to the head equals deadly force, and as such, can be met with deadly force. But, in the heat of the moment, I couldn't take the shot. Why?

*Because of what lay beyond my target.*

If I aimed center mass at the attacker and fired a shot, that bullet would have gone straight towards oncoming traffic and jeopardized the lives of innocent bystanders.

I had to act fast, but I had to act responsibly too. So I fired a shot... straight at his feet and watched him dance.

I was finally able to pull the car away. I pulled into a gas station across the street an instantly called the cops. When they arrived, they took statements from everyone and made sure they had a good understanding about what happened. I even gave them my dash-cam footage. I thought that was it, they'd arrest the cholo's and I'd get to go home...

Oh man was I wrong.

A female investigator showed up to the scene. One of the officers told me "she's not the one you want"... A little confused, I asked "what do you mean?" to which he replied "she's a big anti-gun nut"... I didn't think anything of it...

5 minutes later, that same officer came up to me and started to apologize.. that's when it hit me, I was about to get cuffed.

The Officer told me how he knew I was in the right, but he has to follow his orders. He tried to reassure me, but his words couldn't make those cuffs feel any better.

My hands stayed cuffed behind my back until 9am... 7 hours without relief. When they brought me to the station at 2:30am, they put me in a filthy cell, 4'x4', blood smeared all over the seat and walls. It looked as though this place had never been scrubbed down. They chained me to a steel pole on the bench, and there I sat until sunrise. It was torture

I later found out that they towed my car, no surprise there. But, because I had firearms in the trunk, they got seized. And by "seize" I mean they brought them to the station right in front of my cell. They started passing my guns to each other as if it were some kind of show and tell event. They didn't give a damn about my property, no respect whatsoever. Just passing my stuff around like it's a.... well, you get the point... I wasn't happy about it.

So, I go through booking, call my wife and she's freaking out because I didn't come home that night. She's gotta watch our baby, but can't get to me because the car was impounded.... she's a total wreck. No clue what to do, but somehow figures it out.

Around 4pm, I finally get bailed out of the hell hole!

$2,000, 2 months, and 2 court hearings later, the case gets dismissed. But this liberal investigator still wants to keep my guns. I had to get my lawyer to threaten her for violating my 4th Amendment right against unreasonable seizures... I should get my guns back tomorrow... the excitement is keeping me awake. Oh how I missed them. I'll be at the range AS SOON as they are placed back in my arms...

WHAT... A.... MESS!!

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention... I lost my job as result.

What's the lesson learned? We're guilty until proven innocent.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Verba Bellum said:


> What's the lesson learned? We're guilty until proven innocent.


OUCH............

Glad you lived thru the episode, . . . and while $2K isn't chump change, . . . at least it wasn't 30 or 40K.

Stay safe.......

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

@Verba Bellum

That is one helluva experience that many of us have run through our minds on countless occassions.

What happened to the illegals? Did they get deported or at least arrested for assault, vandalism and attempted murder?

I am not trying to reveal your 20 but are you rural Texas or big city?

Was the job you lost, Uber? Or did you lose your other job? Losing a job sucks but if it was only Uber, consider it a good riddance.

The old saying, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Rule number one. When LEO arrives keep your moth shut. Rule number two when LEO arrives repeat after me I am too shook up to talk right now. If you fail to follow one and two good luck.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> Rule number one. When LEO arrives keep your moth shut. Rule number two when LEO arrives repeat after me I am too shook up to talk right now. If you fail to follow one and two good luck.


ADD;

"I was in fear of my LIFE, I am too shook up to talk, may I have my attorney please before I say anything else?".


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Well, I know one thing. When the cops start asking me questions, before I invoke my right to keep my damn mouth shut, I simply say @Slippy did it. :vs_smirk:


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Verba Bellum said:


> ...........The Officer told me how he knew I was in the right, but he has to follow his orders........


Welcome to Germany, 1942.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Prepared One said:


> Well, I know one thing. When the cops start asking me questions, before I invoke my right to keep my damn mouth shut, I simply say @Slippy did it. :vs_smirk:


DRATS! Foiled again...:vs_mad:


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Ah, Texas, the new Cali....
Liberal punks, freaks, illegals and sissy ass local cops. 
Should have requested a sheriff.
I would look into pressing charges for being in cuffs, inside the police station, for that amount of time.
A good lawyer might wanna help you.


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

It crushed my spirit..


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

"A female investigator showed up to the scene. "

"5 minutes later, that same officer came up to me and started to apologize.. that's when it hit me, I was about to get cuffed. 
The Officer told me how he knew I was in the right, but he has to follow his orders. He tried to reassure me, but his words couldn't make those cuffs feel any better."

"$2,000, 2 months, and 2 court hearings later, the case gets dismissed. But this liberal investigator still wants to keep my guns."

'The three take aways from this story are this. 
1. There are officers on the command staff of police departments who don't like the rights granted to you by the constitution, and are willing to use the power of the state to try to take them from you.
2. The rank and file of these departments WILL follow the orders of their superiors to take your rights away because they will not risk their career and pension. Remember that with all the talk about 2nd amendment sanctuary states and counties. In the end they will follow orders.
3. If you are a nobody or don't have the money to fight back you will be thrown in prison and forgotten about.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

keith9365 said:


> "A female investigator showed up to the scene. "
> 
> "5 minutes later, that same officer came up to me and started to apologize.. that's when it hit me, I was about to get cuffed.
> The Officer told me how he knew I was in the right, but he has to follow his orders. He tried to reassure me, but his words couldn't make those cuffs feel any better."
> ...


The fourth take away, Pistol whip the MFER and drive home safely, without reporting nuthin.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

I missed something here. What were you charged with and consequently detained for?


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

KUSA said:


> I missed something here. What were you charged with and consequently detained for?


"Discharging a firearm in certain municipalities"


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Verba Bellum said:


> "Discharging a firearm in certain municipalities"


What happened to the ********?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Rule number one. When LEO arrives keep your moth shut. Rule number two when LEO arrives repeat after me I am too shook up to talk right now. If you fail to follow one and two good luck.


Exactly!!
I have taken a number of tactics and training classes from our County Sheriffs Office, one of which was "How to keep from going to jail."
The head instructor said exactly those two things, plus one other - tell them you do not wish to say anything without your lawyer present.
There was more involved, the class was an hour long, but those were the 3 big things.

These were the cops themselves saying this. Sitting right next to me was the Under Sheriff, who later went on to be Sheriff.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

lesson learned...don't let stangers into your car


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

Slippy said:


> What happened to the ********?


Not sure, they didn't show up to any of the hearings.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Bet your ass "they still cashing them assistance checks" and sending money Western Union to Mexico City.
I asked a local Walmart Employee how many Mex's send money to Mexico, she laughed and said ALOT.


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## modfan (Feb 18, 2016)

And this is why I have concealed carry insurance for my wife and I. If discharge me weapon, I have a card I hand to the first Leo on the scene. It says the card holder invokes is right pursuant to the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments. Any questioning of this person needs to be suspended immediately.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

This might make a chapter in one of Mookie Spalains crime books. Ya just never know.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mickey_Spillane

Vengeance is Mine! (1950)

The guy was dead as hell. He lay on the floor in his pajamas with his brains scattered all over the rug and my gun was in his hand. I kept rubbing my face to wipe out the fuzz that clouded my mind but the cops wouldn't let me. One would pull my hand away and shout a question at me that made my head ache even worse and another would slap me with a wet rag until I felt like I had been split wide open.

I couldn't think. I couldn't remember. I was wound up like a spring and ready to bust. All I could see was the dead guy in the middle of the room and my gun. My gun! Somebody grabbed at my arm and hauled me upright and the questions started again. That was as much as I could take. I gave a hell of a kick and a fat face in a fedora pulled back out of focus and started to groan, all doubled up. Maybe I laughed, I don't know.

Rainey, you've forgotten something. You've forgotten that I'm not a guy that takes any crap. Not from anybody. You've forgotten I've been in business because I stayed alive longer than some guys who didn't want me that way. You've forgotten that I've had some punks tougher than you'll ever be on the end of a gun and I pulled the trigger just to watch their expressions change.


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

bigwheel said:


> Vengeance is Mine! (1950) .


Looks like a good read. I'll have to check it out.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

If you dispense a freedom seed in self-defense, just tell the cops who you are and nothing more. Remember, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Any cop and prosecutors will use whatever you say against you. Right and wrong mean nothing to the anti gun crowd. You alive and ok but 2k poorer for the experience. The problems are laws and lawyers who will subvert common sense and the second amendment. This is why who you vote for and actively help get elected is important. The right people in positions of power and this doesn’t cost two grand and months of aggravation.

Fact is you have to watch what you say and how you say it. Delay making the statement by being shock up or needing medical attention until you get an attorney or speak to whom decides if you going home tonight. Being excited your story may differ between cops and that my friends means jail for you.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Just a thought here.. I’m in Texas, I use Texas law Shield for any potential instances like this one. It’s under $10 per month. If you carry it’s cheap insurance. 

The one thing that TLS does instruct there customers is after an incident, and when the police arrive, the only statement should be, “I want to talk to my lawyer” and NOTHING MORE. 

The order of calls should be 911 to report the incident, then hang up and call TLS or your lawyer. 

No matter the state, there are district attorneys who are liberal, anti-gun and try to make a name for themselves. They will, if possible, press forward with a grand jury. A grand jury legal fees can run up to $100k. 

Something to think about. 

And I’m glad it ultimately turned out well for you. You must not be in Terrant county....


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## Verba Bellum (Dec 8, 2019)

Piratesailor said:


> . You must not be in Terrant county....


El Paso


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## bgreed (Feb 26, 2014)

There are officers on the command staff of police departments who don't like the rights granted to you by the constitution, and are willing to use the power of the state to try to take them from you.

Let's get one thing straight. Rights are not granted to you by the US Constitution. You are born with these rights. That is why they are called unalienable rights. The US Constitution recognizes those rights.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

bgreed said:


> There are officers on the command staff of police departments who don't like the rights granted to you by the constitution, and are willing to use the power of the state to try to take them from you.
> 
> Let's get one thing straight. Rights are not granted to you by the US Constitution. You are born with these rights. That is why they are called unalienable rights. The US Constitution recognizes those rights.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk


True, I agree with you. But, that don't mean squat today. You have to have it in writing and that's what the constitution does. Prosecutors and certain cops will F you as much as they can and your constitutional rights are there to say wait a minute, back up. Its pretty sad todays criminal justice system considers you guilty until you are proven innocent and can bankrupt you at the whim of some POS prosecutor. Its a long story but the short version is I had a self defense incident and was guilty the whole process of the system until the jury came back with Not Guilty. I got over my hate towards cops but I still hate prosecutors.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Verba Bellum said:


> "Discharging a firearm in certain municipalities"


Pocket sized print off, laminate and put in your wallet/purse, vehicle, bedroom, near your most widely used exterior door. Basically put it where you will have access to it. Below is the statement and an abbreviated to do list. Familiarize yourself with the above to do list so you can better relate it to the abbreviated list.

Front
"I would like to speak to an attorney before 
I provide a written statement or answer any 
questions. But I want you to know that I am
the victim of this crime and that I was afraid 
for my life. I felt that if I did not defend myself
the criminal was going to kill me. I will fully 
cooperate with your investigation and I will sign
the complaint against the criminal. But because
the issue is so serious I would like to consult with 
an attorney before answering any additional 
questions."

Back
Stop the threat, kick the criminals weapon away
from him and do not touch. When scene is safe, 
make a brief video and pictures of the scene 
for your attorney. Forward email/text to 3rd party. 
Render 1st Aid to assailant/victims. Show officers 
evidence on scene. Any casualties and if you 
received wounds. Point out any surveillance 
cameras and any witnesses If witness leave take a 
picture of them/plate number. Get names of 
officers/badge# and the incident report number 
for attorney. Watch your words and actions. 
Watch for interrogation techniques Stand by 
your decision to remain silent until you speak to 
your attorney. You have a legal right to remain 
silent, hold your ground, do it firmly but with 
respect.

Try to video tape this statement and reactions.
1. I do not consent to searches.
2. I am not speaking to you or answering any questions and I want to speak to an attorney.
3. I do not agree to stay here with you for any reason. Are you detaining me or am I free to go?


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Verba Bellum said:


> Oh, and I almost forgot lesson learned? We're guilty until proven innocent.


Yes, you are guilty until you are proven innocent.


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## Big Boy in MO (Jan 22, 2018)

Verba Bellum said:


> El Paso


OR Bandera or Kerr


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Easy to be an armchair quarterback but here's my thoughts about this:
1. As everyone else said - keep your trap shut, ask for lawyer
2. Theory is that if you are safe enough to offer a warning shot, you are not in fear of your life. 
3. If he's charging you and way behind him are other folks are you that unsure of your shot placement that you can't do two to the body?
4. Next time drive to a local police station


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Wedrownik said:


> Easy to be an armchair quarterback but here's my thoughts about this:
> 1. As everyone else said - keep your trap shut, ask for lawyer
> 2. Theory is that if you are safe enough to offer a warning shot, you are not in fear of your life.
> 3. If he's charging you and way behind him are other folks are you that unsure of your shot placement that you can't do two to the body?
> 4. Next time drive to a local police station


Distance cuts both ways, and the farther away he is, the safer you are. And that is how people look at distance. But, the closer he comes to you the easier it is to use deadly & effective force. If he piled into me, I would put some bullets into him at point blank.

The attacker is risking life and limb when he closes in: but the common thought that people have, that they don’t want to get hurt. The defender typically does not want to be knifed, and that will paralyze a lot of people.

But what about you as the defender? A defender can stop an attacker if they keep their heads, and counter attack. Which in this case means shooting the bastards at close range.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Deebo said:


> The fourth take away, Pistol whip the MFER and drive home safely, without reporting nuthin.


That's the spirit! But keep in mind that a gun leaves marks on a body. I was watching a cop show, and it was a homicide. And on the guys head, we're perfect marks from a1911. 

The body marks were from the magazine well and magazine. Someone had beat the hell out of him and then shot him. Then they dumped the body, but it was easy for the cops to identify what kind of gun was used.

Anyway, I can’t remember if they found the attacker, but if he had the pistol on him, it would have been a clincher.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Never tried restarting an old conversation with a banned person. Good job.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

A very valid point - but there are important lessons to be learned here 😉


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Always wondered what happened. 
As I re read all the comments, in my rationing now, i would never pistol whip a person.(wink and touch nose).
I will start a new thread on a recent event. 
Lets try to nor get banned.


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## wraithofroncollins (10 mo ago)

Verba Bellum said:


> $2,000, 2 months, and 2 court hearings later, the case gets dismissed. But this liberal investigator still wants to keep my guns. I had to get my lawyer to threaten her for violating my 4th Amendment right against unreasonable seizures... I should get my guns back tomorrow... the excitement is keeping me awake. Oh how I missed them. I'll be at the range AS SOON as they are placed back in my arms...
> 
> WHAT... A.... MESS!!
> 
> ...


Let me tell you the reality of the legal system, its a joke... Not only are you guilty until proven innocent but, no one investigates. They charge you first and make you prove them wrong. Good luck bro.


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