# Immigration Crisis



## pharmer14

I'm well aware of the risk of this thread being hijacked by The Resister, but I'm gravely concerned about the wave of illegals coming across the southern border.

I think this is a very clear reason for us to continue prepping.

We aren't bringing engineers and doctors in folks. We're bringing in single moms with 5 kids. We're going to drown our public assistance programs even more. While doing that we're also freeing up space for the cartels to run more narcotics in as our Border Patrol agents are tied up playing nanny.

Dangerous times. We're walking the road to serfdom... hope you got some comfy shoes...


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## paraquack

don't forget the myriad of diseases they bring with them. This $hit scares me as much as nukes being brought over the border by unsuspecting "immigrants" for a grub stake.


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## SAR-1L

I myself have several concerns about illegal immigrants.

1. They have more rights than we do.
2. I walked into a Walmart 5 years ago in SoCal, and no one spoke english. ( btw I am learning spanish, next will be mandarin )
3. We have an army of unarmed women and children invading our country. What does that say to other countries?
4. Drug Cartels are the western hemispheres equivalent of ISIS, and other extremist groups in the Middle East.
5. Politicians want them here cause they can take 100 dollars from you and I and give 1 dollar a piece to 100 of them
which then allows them to buy votes and undermine how our nation was supposed to work.
6. Additionally how do we sort out an illegal immigrant from terrorists operatives of central american nationality?

We are in for a serious world of hurt, and this "crisis" can be described as nothing else other than an invasion or war
on our country. A war funded by cartels and our own politicians looking to solidify their power and the status quo.


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## pharmer14

SAR-1L said:


> I myself have several concerns about illegal immigrants.
> 
> 1. They have more rights than we do.
> 2. I walked into a Walmart 5 years ago in SoCal, and no one spoke english. ( btw I am learning spanish, next will be mandarin )
> 3. We have an army of unarmed women and children invading our country. What does that say to other countries?
> 4. Drug Cartels are the western hemispheres equivalent of ISIS, and other extremist groups in the Middle East.
> 5. Politicians want them here cause they can take 100 dollars from you and I and give 1 dollar a piece to 100 of them
> which then allows them to buy votes and undermine how our nation was supposed to work.
> 6. Additionally how do we sort out an illegal immigrant from terrorists operatives of central american nationality?
> 
> We are in for a serious world of hurt, and this "crisis" can be described as nothing else other than an invasion or war
> on our country. A war funded by cartels and our own politicians looking to solidify their power and the status quo.


Only disagreement is that the government doesn't spend $100 for every $100 in tax money they take in... it's more like $300 in spending for every $100 raised...

I'd bet that $100 that we're a 3rd world country easily within the next 50 years... probably much sooner than that...


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## Inor

paraquack said:


> don't forget the myriad of diseases they bring with them. This $hit scares me as much as nukes being brought over the border by unsuspecting "immigrants" for a grub stake.


The diseases they bring scare me MORE than nukes. The Mexican strain of TB that is running around now is immune to antibiotics. I have a friend that had it a few years back and he almost died from it. He was in his early 40's and healthy at the time. This is not going to end well.


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## Denton

I believe the reasons for such entry and transportation throughout the country is to spread disease, create financial stress and further destroy our social cohesion.

Call me what you want, but all of these things are known to those who are ultimately pulling the strings.


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## Inor

Denton said:


> I believe the reasons for such entry and transportation throughout the country is to spread disease, create financial stress and further destroy our social cohesion.
> 
> Call me what you want, but all of these things are known to those who are ultimately pulling the strings.


That may well be. George Soros (a Jew) did help the Nazis round up his own people after all. He even said it was the best time of his life.


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## Denton

Inor said:


> That may well be. George Soros (a Jew) did help the Nazis round up his own people after all. He even said it was the best time of his life.


That, in itself, should shut up those idiots that lump all Jews in the conspiracy. It won't. That's why they are idiots.


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## pharmer14

Yeah I don't speculate on motives... there are just far too many options from votes, to apologizing for America's greatness... the list goes on.

But I do know that it will not end well. 

We've desperately got to make our legal pathway better and get our economy moving again so people (including immigrants) can work instead of join the dependency class...


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## Purkeypilot

It's most definitely a bad, bad situation...I really don't see how it can end any way but bad at this point.


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## keith9365

1- Create chaos. Overwhelm communities and services with the flood of illegals. 2- Set up circumstances for pandemic. 3- Declare martial law, enforce travel restrictions, ban assembly of groups or protest to "contain" the outbreak. This all has to be planned.


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## Slippy

More Alinsky tactics.


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## Moonshinedave

Seems to me we have a president that hates United States, he is doing everything he can, both legally and illegally to weaken or destroy it. While we all just sit back and watch it sink. Also, he is creating a massive amount of voting democrats to keep politicians with his mindset in office in the future. If it isn't already too late, it is quickly heading that way IMO.
I honestly believe he, and the liberals like him wants to turn US into a country of, poor waiting in line for scraps to be handed out. Rich elite who are in control supplying the poor enough to keep them happy and thereby keeping the elite in office. Lastly just enough working class to pay taxes and foot the bill.


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## The Resister

pharmer14 said:


> I'm well aware of the risk of this thread being hijacked by The Resister, but I'm gravely concerned about the wave of illegals coming across the southern border.
> 
> I think this is a very clear reason for us to continue prepping.
> 
> We aren't bringing engineers and doctors in folks. We're bringing in single moms with 5 kids. We're going to drown our public assistance programs even more. While doing that we're also freeing up space for the cartels to run more narcotics in as our Border Patrol agents are tied up playing nanny.
> 
> Dangerous times. We're walking the road to serfdom... hope you got some comfy shoes...


I've never hijacked an immigration thread. We can stay on point and have a productive discussion. It's just that most people on this subject are so emotionally involved that they cannot deal with the truth.

For example, there is no such thing as an "_illegal alien / immigrant_." THAT simple truth precludes the possibility that you can effect a political / legal change in your favor. As a matter of fact, calling people an "_illegal_" any freaking thing, absent Due Process, is counter-productive to the cause of Liberty and works against you. Here's why:

IF the IRS can target the Tea Party; IF the system in general can call preppers enemy combatants, terrorists, etc.; WHEN there are connotations that prevent people from exercising their God given, *unalienable* Rights, then what better way for tyrants to do so when YOU help establish the precedent? When dealing with immigration law, we are dealing with *civil law*, *not* *criminal* law.

Last night I went to the fireworks show at the local courthouse. The audience was predominantly black and Hispanic. In 1983 the white people were 81 percent of this county's population. Today, the foreigners make up the bulk of this county and I suspect the same thing is happening in virtually every state in the United States at an alarming rate. Meanwhile, the Tea Party and most anti - immigrant organizations give you this bullshit line "_we don't care if they come here provided they do so legally" (sic)._

A recent report claims that of all the job growth in the U.S. since they year 2000 has gone to foreigners:

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Immigration - tool of the NEW WORLD ORDER

If that's the case, what freaking difference does it make HOW someone gets here? This whole argument has been about whether it's "_legal_" or not and the real issue is: once a foreigner becomes a citizen, they have the power to vote you out of existence. What the United States does not need is more citizens. What the United States does not need is more half educated people thinking they can deny to people their God given *unalienable* Rights. What the United States does not need is to reconstruct the Berlin Wall around the United States AND hem in their own citizenry while creating the ultimate *POLICE STATE*.

What we do need is to encourage employers to hire American workers over foreign labor. We need to encourage employers to pay their workers a living wage (and that's not some liberal, undefinable term.) Instead of worrying about what freebies the foreigner can come here and get (and most of that is a myth), we need to focus on getting government OUT of the welfare business AND also out of education. Let the states decide that matter. *NOBODY* ought to have a "_Right_" to a free public education. Welfare, for most people, ought to be a TEMPORARY, stop gap measure to help people get back on their feet; it need not be a lifestyle.

The immigration debacle is NOT a criminal issue. It is an issue that would be better served by acknowledging that it is a declaration of war by the Hispanics from south of the border. Their governments are trying to destroy us financially and con us into paying for our own destruction... BTW, my critics are the ones happy to shell out money, under the pretext of safety, in order to accommodate the foreigners. This is an issue that requires some real discussion - and you seem to worry that my input would require you to think.


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## Seneca

Moonshine, I don't think he hates the US rather that he is a modern day Nero and wants to reshape it into something more pleasing to his eyes. If Nero fiddled while Rome burned then history may recount that he fiddled while the US over run by illegal immigration got sick from the diseases the brought with them.


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## SAR-1L

I really don't care about the technicalities of civil/criminal law in regard to this topic, with all respect resistor.

My view is the following, if someone entered my home and I perceived them as a threat I would put them down.
They are entering the United States, the country I consider my home in a way which makes them a threat,
of bringing disease, instability, violence, drugs etc etc... I would put that threat down using force.

I understand good people come from everywhere, but so do bad people.


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## The Resister

SAR-1L said:


> I really don't care about the technicalities of civil/criminal law in regard to this topic, with all respect resistor.
> 
> My view is the following, if someone entered my home and I perceived them as a threat I would put them down.
> They are entering the United States, the country I consider my home in a way which makes them a threat,
> of bringing disease, instability, violence, drugs etc etc... I would put that threat down using force.
> 
> I understand good people come from everywhere, but so do bad people.


Part of being respectful is calling someone by their correct board name. Be that as it may, here is my point on that issue:

The anti - immigrant lobby has likened the U.S. to a "_house_" and they accuse the foreigners of trespassing and so forth. Additionally, the Tea Party and other anti - immigrant concerns want to impose draconian federal laws against states who offer safe haven for foreigners.

If we use the "_house_" analogy, then every state within that "_house_" [each state being a room in that house] has the Right to decide who is invited and who is not. Furthermore, each individual has the Right to associate with whomever they want to. When the immigration laws are being enforced so as to favor the anti - immigrant over those who would swamp this country with foreigners, the courts are bound to side *against* the anti - immigrant lobby. This the Tea Party and other groups in favor of draconian immigration policies cannot understand.

We tried the _rule of law theory_, but the laws did not favor the anti - immigrant position. Next, the anti - immigrant lobby tried to use economics as their arguing point. That failed miserably as well - the primary reason I have so many critics. Now, the anti - immigrant lobby is trying to use the fear of diseases as a lobbying tool.

We cannot resolve the issue of immigration because there are so many false presuppositions that float around as if they were manna from Heaven. At the end of the day, *every person is entitled to unalienable Rights*. Man does not derive his freedom from citizenship; it is not bestowed upon him by government; man owes no duty to anyone for his Life, Liberty and his pursuit of Happiness. So, how do we save our country from the inundation of Hispanics into the United States without creating the ultimate *POLICE STATE*?

We can regulate immigration, but we cannot prevent it. We could pass laws that would encourage employers to hire American workers, but you cannot tell the employer that he owes someone a job just because they are a citizen. If an employer could get a tax break greater than the difference in pay between cheap foreign labor and hiring Americans, employers would do what is most profitable. It makes sense for us as well:

An out of work American ends up on welfare or taxing the system because they engage in illegal activities (selling drugs, prostitution, etc.) Between welfare, increased incarceration costs plus the people it takes to dole out welfare and man the prisons, the tax break idea is much more cost effective. We should allow foreigners to come here as *guests*. They can work, travel, etc. without the expectation of becoming citizens. If the foreigner is not a citizen, they should NOT be entitled to welfare, a free public education, or any service that they cannot pay for. I assure you though, the Tea Party and then anti - immigrant's obsession with forced citizenship will bite them in the ass after the 2016 election. That's how close we are to an unavoidable defeat.


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## paraquack

We don't have an immigration crisis. We have a LEADERSHIP CRISIS in the worst way.


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## SAR-1L

The Resister said:


> Part of being respectful is calling someone by their correct board name. Be that as it may, here is my point on that issue:


You know I accidentally mistyped your name?
I will be honest I think your reply is shitty.

But...

I respect everyone on this forum even if I don't like them,
even if I don't like the things they say or do.

I wouldn't read into a typo as a sign of disrespect, if that is
all it takes to upset you then you need thicker skin,
I know I do at times as well.


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## The Resister

SAR-1L said:


> You know I accidentally mistyped your name?
> I will be honest I think your reply is shitty.
> 
> But...
> 
> I respect everyone on this forum even if I don't like them,
> even if I don't like the things they say or do.
> 
> I wouldn't read into a typo as a sign of disrespect, if that is
> all it takes to upset you then you need thicker skin,
> I know I do at times as well.


You say my response is "_shitty_," but you fail to acknowledge that it is both factual AND it is honest. It's incomplete, but you have to remember, people want the benefit of years of experience all wrapped up in ten sentences or less on these boards. Insofar as the spelling of my name, it's become a silent way of attacking me over this issue. Not mad at you or anything, just getting used to people throwing up roadblocks when a new idea is presented.

No matter what you think, I think OR the majority on either side think, at the end of the day the "_solution_" has to survive constitutional muster by three Jews and six Catholics that sit on the United States Supreme Court. The Tea Party and those with an anti - immigrant bias have not proposed such. I continue to add to the proposals on the table and put the SCOTUS on the defensive. "_Shitty_" responses? Yeah, right. Rely on that ill thought out political propaganda by the Tea Party and anti - immigrant groups in court and you'll go down in flames.


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## Notsoyoung

Here we go again, same old bs.


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## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> I've never hijacked an immigration thread. We can stay on point and have a productive discussion. It's just that most people on this subject are so emotionally involved that they cannot deal with the truth.
> 
> For example, there is no such thing as an "_illegal alien / immigrant_." THAT simple truth precludes the possibility that you can effect a political / legal change in your favor. As a matter of fact, calling people an "_illegal_" any freaking thing, absent Due Process, is counter-productive to the cause of Liberty and works against you. Here's why:
> 
> IF the IRS can target the Tea Party; IF the system in general can call preppers enemy combatants, terrorists, etc.; WHEN there are connotations that prevent people from exercising their God given, *unalienable* Rights, then what better way for tyrants to do so when YOU help establish the precedent? When dealing with immigration law, we are dealing with *civil law*, *not* *criminal* law.
> 
> Last night I went to the fireworks show at the local courthouse. The audience was predominantly black and Hispanic. In 1983 the white people were 81 percent of this county's population. Today, the foreigners make up the bulk of this county and I suspect the same thing is happening in virtually every state in the United States at an alarming rate. Meanwhile, the Tea Party and most anti - immigrant organizations give you this bullshit line "_we don't care if they come here provided they do so legally" (sic)._
> 
> A recent report claims that of all the job growth in the U.S. since they year 2000 has gone to foreigners:
> 
> Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Immigration - tool of the NEW WORLD ORDER
> 
> If that's the case, what freaking difference does it make HOW someone gets here? This whole argument has been about whether it's "_legal_" or not and the real issue is: once a foreigner becomes a citizen, they have the power to vote you out of existence. What the United States does not need is more citizens. What the United States does not need is more half educated people thinking they can deny to people their God given *unalienable* Rights. What the United States does not need is to reconstruct the Berlin Wall around the United States AND hem in their own citizenry while creating the ultimate *POLICE STATE*.
> 
> What we do need is to encourage employers to hire American workers over foreign labor. We need to encourage employers to pay their workers a living wage (and that's not some liberal, undefinable term.) Instead of worrying about what freebies the foreigner can come here and get (and most of that is a myth), we need to focus on getting government OUT of the welfare business AND also out of education. Let the states decide that matter. *NOBODY* ought to have a "_Right_" to a free public education. Welfare, for most people, ought to be a TEMPORARY, stop gap measure to help people get back on their feet; it need not be a lifestyle.
> 
> The immigration debacle is NOT a criminal issue. It is an issue that would be better served by acknowledging that it is a declaration of war by the Hispanics from south of the border. Their governments are trying to destroy us financially and con us into paying for our own destruction... BTW, my critics are the ones happy to shell out money, under the pretext of safety, in order to accommodate the foreigners. This is an issue that requires some real discussion - and you seem to worry that my input would require you to think.


A quick claim about never hijacking a thread and then line after line after line hijacking the thread. Same old bs.


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## Notsoyoung

By the way, NEVER follow the thread that he gives. He is just trying to drive up the numbers on his website. If he wants to say something he can do it here.


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## Slippy

My Great Grandfather Giuseppi Slippy came from Italy through Ellis Island in 1903. He came to the United States of America to work and start a free life. His old country was not free anymore and the future was facism, socialism or communism. He wanted Freedom. He spoke no English when he passed through Ellis but learned it quickly. He found work in the textile mills, then the steel mills and his son also worked in the steel mills for 50 years. Giuseppi became an American the moment he passed thru the gates and left Italy behind, never giving it another thought. The United States of America was Giuseppi's country. Say something bad about the US and Giuseppi would dot your ****ing eye.

That was the way of immigration for many years.

Today, the scum that cross our borders are not here to find true freedom. They come here to get free food, free money. They are not willing to work in the steel mills or textile mills (partially because most are gone). They are not willing to start a legit business.

No, the scum that enter through our southern border are here to do harm to the United States of America and her citizens. 
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...ag-Burned-at-Murrieta-Protests-on-4th-of-July
And that's really all I have to say about this.


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## inceptor

I always thought the idea of immigration was to join a new community and assimilate into that community. You asked to become part of that community. You learn the language, customs and become part of the community you joined.

Illegal immigration has been going on for years. A good example is the Chinese in the 1800's. Even then they did their best to assimilate into the country. They learned the language and customs. Some come here legally. A current example is Burmese refugee's. They have little to no education but are doing quite well for themselves here. They are doing their best to assimilate into our culture.

Now people enter this country in whatever manner. They left their own home for a variety of reasons. Many left because of persecution and/or economic reasons. They come to this country and expect us to learn their language and demand we change to their way of doing things. They demand that we provide for them the things that were lacking in their country. They break into our house, tell us we must change the furniture, provide them with food, clothing and medical care, speak their language and conform to their customs. The sad part is that this is the only country on the planet where the govt allows this to happen.

Many in this country, including a member or two here, tell us this is the way it must be. It is our civic duty to feed and care for these people. It is the right of these immigrants that we should provide for them even though the entered this country "covertly".

How many of these immigration champions have invited these people to live in their home?

How many of these "uninvited guests" are they willing to support?

How much of their hard earned money are they willing to donate to these "undocumented guests"?

Why do they demand that I take responsibility for these people when I didn't invite them? I believe in charity but I donate to charities I believe in, charities that ask, not demand.


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## Seneca

The simplest answer is often the correct answer.
Are you a citizen of the US. Yes/No
Did you enter the country legally? Yes/No
If we the people have to be patient and wait for our congress to come up with a solution, then so do you. 
Pretty simple really.


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## SAR-1L

The Resister said:


> You say my response is "_shitty_," but you fail to acknowledge that it is both factual AND it is honest. It's incomplete, but you have to remember, people want the benefit of years of experience all wrapped up in ten sentences or less on these boards. Insofar as the spelling of my name, it's become a silent way of attacking me over this issue. Not mad at you or anything, just getting used to people throwing up roadblocks when a new idea is presented.


There is nothing factual about your accusation of me "attacking" you by accidentally typing your name wrong by one *Fucking* letter.
Sir I strongly suggest you pack a pair of Prepper Diapers for your BOB: Prepper Diapers: Baby Care post collapse | The Great Northern Prepper










I have some seen strange *shit* on these forums but never have I heard a grown man *bitch* and whine like a small baby over a typo.
If I say something, and I say "with all respect" I mean with all respect. If everyone thought I was attacking them just
cause I had a *Fucking* typo in my posts then the entire *Fucking* forums would be greatly insulted on a daily basis.

Oh P.S. my grammar sucks at times to but I promise it isn't isn't all about you, and I am not sending a grammar nuke your way.


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## Slippy

SAR-1L said:


> There is nothing factual about your accusation of me "attacking" you by accidentally typing your name wrong by one *Fucking* letter.
> Sir I strongly suggest you pack a pair of Prepper Diapers for your BOB: Prepper Diapers: Baby Care post collapse | The Great Northern Prepper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have some strange *shit* on these forums but never have I heard a grown man *bitch* and whine like a small baby over a typo.
> If I say something, and I say "with all respect" I mean with all respect. If everyone thought I was attacking them just
> cause I had a *Fucking* typo in my posts then the entire *Fucking* forums would be greatly insulted on a daily basis.
> 
> Oh P.S. my grammar sucks at times to but I promise it isn't isn't all about you, and I am not sending a grammar nuke your way.


SAR makes me smile!


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## MrsInor

Sar makes me smile too. I don't think the prepper diaper is big enough though.

It is nice to see some folks actually fighting this mass of unwelcome people and turning away the buses. However that will make the government just become more sneaky.

I remember several years ago when the cities here "imported" tons of Hmong people. They gave them an apartment and expected them to get a job. A couple of guys that worked for me then were also on the fire department and told stories about calls they would get. The Hmong would start a fire in the oven, they hauled dirt onto the flat roofs of the building and started gardens, the men never looked for jobs just sat around outside in the summer and in the hallways during the winter. The building was actually condemned after a year because of multiple fire damage and the roof starting to cave. The schools and hospital had to hire more interpreters and crime escalated. 

Send them all back where they came from.


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## omegabrock

Moonshinedave said:


> I honestly believe he, and the liberals like him wants to turn US into a country of, poor waiting in line for scraps to be handed out. Rich elite who are in control supplying the poor enough to keep them happy and thereby keeping the elite in office. Lastly just enough working class to pay taxes and foot the bill.


but i thought that when obama was elected, money would fall from the sky and everybody...down to fast food cashiers...would make 100k a year so everybody would be rich!! That way, we wouldnt need government assistance and life would be fair and equal


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## omegabrock

Slippy said:


> My Great Grandfather Giuseppi Slippy came from Italy through Ellis Island in 1903. He came to the United States of America to work and start a free life. His old country was not free anymore and the future was facism, socialism or communism. He wanted Freedom. He spoke no English when he passed through Ellis but learned it quickly. He found work in the textile mills, then the steel mills and his son also worked in the steel mills for 50 years. Giuseppi became an American the moment he passed thru the gates and left Italy behind, never giving it another thought. The United States of America was Giuseppi's country. Say something bad about the US and Giuseppi would dot your ****ing eye.
> 
> That was the way of immigration for many years.
> 
> Today, the scum that cross our borders are not here to find true freedom. They come here to get free food, free money. They are not willing to work in the steel mills or textile mills (partially because most are gone). They are not willing to start a legit business.
> 
> No, the scum that enter through our southern border are here to do harm to the United States of America and her citizens.
> Pro-Amnesty Crowd Burns American Flag at Murrieta on 4th of July
> And that's really all I have to say about this.


because, that's all that needs to be said.

there are immigrants that come here with nothing and make something. there are immigrants that soak in as much American culture as they can...the problem is that the majority don't. "why bust my ass to have more when i can do nothing, get the bare minimum and it's still better than where i come from"...and THAT is truly how some people feel


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## omegabrock

MrsInor said:


> I remember several years ago when the cities here "imported" tons of Hmong people. They gave them an apartment and expected them to get a job. A couple of guys that worked for me then were also on the fire department and told stories about calls they would get. The Hmong would start a fire in the oven, they hauled dirt onto the flat roofs of the building and started gardens, the men never looked for jobs just sat around outside in the summer and in the hallways during the winter. The building was actually condemned after a year because of multiple fire damage and the roof starting to cave. The schools and hospital had to hire more interpreters and crime escalated.
> 
> Send them all back where they came from.


i remember when people from NO were evacuated to houston. the city spent a lot of money to provide transportation (i dont remember how many, but there were a lot of buses) and set up job interviews. 1 person showed up and everybody else didnt because they were getting supplements from the government. why work when you get a free handout? it's sickening


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## The Resister

SAR-1L said:


> There is nothing factual about your accusation of me "attacking" you by accidentally typing your name wrong by one *Fucking* letter.
> Sir I strongly suggest you pack a pair of Prepper Diapers for your BOB: Prepper Diapers: Baby Care post collapse | The Great Northern Prepper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have some seen strange *shit* on these forums but never have I heard a grown man *bitch* and whine like a small baby over a typo.
> If I say something, and I say "with all respect" I mean with all respect. If everyone thought I was attacking them just
> cause I had a *Fucking* typo in my posts then the entire *Fucking* forums would be greatly insulted on a daily basis.
> 
> Oh P.S. my grammar sucks at times to but I promise it isn't isn't all about you, and I am not sending a grammar nuke your way.


I didn't accuse you of attacking me. You just want to act like an idiot. Look at who you attracted. Mission accomplished.


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## The Resister

inceptor said:


> I always thought the idea of immigration was to join a new community and assimilate into that community. You asked to become part of that community. You learn the language, customs and become part of the community you joined.
> 
> Illegal immigration has been going on for years. A good example is the Chinese in the 1800's. Even then they did their best to assimilate into the country. They learned the language and customs. Some come here legally. A current example is Burmese refugee's. They have little to no education but are doing quite well for themselves here. They are doing their best to assimilate into our culture.
> 
> Now people enter this country in whatever manner. They left their own home for a variety of reasons. Many left because of persecution and/or economic reasons. They come to this country and expect us to learn their language and demand we change to their way of doing things. They demand that we provide for them the things that were lacking in their country. They break into our house, tell us we must change the furniture, provide them with food, clothing and medical care, speak their language and conform to their customs. The sad part is that this is the only country on the planet where the govt allows this to happen.
> 
> Many in this country, including a member or two here, tell us this is the way it must be. It is our civic duty to feed and care for these people. It is the right of these immigrants that we should provide for them even though the entered this country "covertly".
> 
> How many of these immigration champions have invited these people to live in their home?
> 
> How many of these "uninvited guests" are they willing to support?
> 
> How much of their hard earned money are they willing to donate to these "undocumented guests"?
> 
> Why do they demand that I take responsibility for these people when I didn't invite them? I believe in charity but I donate to charities I believe in, charities that ask, not demand.


I don't know who you directed your statements to, but I get the impression is was aimed at me. I can play along.

I did not invite any foreigner here. Whether they stay, come, go, become a citizen, etc. I don't give a shit. What I do know is this:

The obsession with those who have this anti - immigrant bias with forced citizenship will be answered shortly. It will end no differently than the seven or so "_amnesties_" that preceded it since 1986. This time, however, the anti - immigrant lobby will be outnumbered in the end and the end of the Republic will be inevitable. Demographics will forever be against you.

The left, as much as I despise them, have an equal Right to invite whomever they wish. Landlords rent to the foreigner; employers hire them; most of you here will go to stores and do business with the employers who hire the undocumented foreigner just to save a few dollars. A good example is Wal Mart. Most of you busting my chops are being hypocritical. You assist in the efforts to help the undocumented foreigner with your dollars while begging Uncle Scam to save you from yourself.

Some of you have implied that I'm a liberal, but I use the economic boycott and am responsible for my actions. I'm not up there with my hat in my hand begging Uncle Scam to protect me from myself. I'm not the one practicing National Socialism by implying that one must be a citizen in order to have God given *unalienable *Rights.

Some employers must be willing to support the people from south of the border. They keep hiring them. The foreigners must be invited or else the landlords would not rent to them. And while we might disagree with their actions, those people have a God given RIGHT to invite whomever they choose; have a Right to do business with whomever they choose; and yes, whether or not we like it, there is a *BIG FREAKING WELCOME SIGN OUT THERE TO INVITE THOSE PEOPLE HERE*. Allow me to quote it for you:

"_Give me your tired, your poor,
Your *huddled masses* yearning to breathe free,
The *wretched refuse of your teeming shore*.
Send these, the* homeless*, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door_!"

It's at the base of the Statue of Liberty

Don't get pissed at me. I didn't put it there.


----------



## Inor

The Resister said:


> "_Give me your tired, your poor,
> Your *huddled masses* yearning to breathe free,
> The *wretched refuse of your teeming shore*.
> Send these, the* homeless*, tempest-tost to me,
> I lift my lamp beside the golden door_!"
> 
> It's at the base of the Statue of Liberty
> 
> Don't get pissed at me. I didn't put it there.


Another good reason to hate the Goddamn French!


----------



## SAR-1L

The Resister said:


> I didn't accuse you of attacking me. You just want to act like an idiot. Look at who you attracted. Mission accomplished.


_Hands Resister his binky... "Aww the thread not going your way now you are getting all upset? You poor thing..."_

Get your silly ass back to bed, it is way past your bed time, and you obviously woke up on the wrong side of
the crib all damn week.

*Edit:* Btw if we always did whatever some French guy chiseled we would be bending over and taking
it up the ass every time an invading force headed our direction.


----------



## Inor

SAR-1L said:


> _*Edit:* Btw if we always did whatever some French guy chiseled we would be bending over and taking
> it up the ass every time an invading force headed our direction._


_

Hilarious!

I think I have a trip coming to Colorado Springs in the not too distant future. We have to grab a beer together._


----------



## SAR-1L

Inor said:


> Hilarious!
> 
> I think I have a trip coming to Colorado Springs in the not too distant future. We have to grab a beer together.


Definitely Inor, just let me know when, will definitely be good times.


----------



## keith9365

SAR-1L said:


> _Hands Resister his binky... "Aww the thread not going your way now you are getting all upset? You poor thing..."_
> 
> Get your silly ass back to bed, it is way past your bed time, and you obviously woke up on the wrong side of
> the crib all damn week.
> 
> *Edit:* Btw if we always did whatever some French guy chiseled we would be bending over and taking
> it up the ass every time an invading force headed our direction.


HA! Damn near spit my beer out of my nose laughing!


----------



## inceptor

Actually resister, my post had NOTHING to do with you and just put out my thoughts. If that was wrong then, well I just don't know what to say.

I will direct this question to you though. Where on the base of the Statue of Liberty (which by the way is close to Ellis Island. What was Ellis Island used for?) does it say "hey, y'all just get in any way you can and we will take responsibility for your well being. Don't worry about how you get here, just get here"? Isn't that a little unfair to the immigrants who spend a lot of time and money to do things the right way?


----------



## The Resister

SAR-1L said:


> _Hands Resister his binky... "Aww the thread not going your way now you are getting all upset? You poor thing..."_
> 
> Get your silly ass back to bed, it is way past your bed time, and you obviously woke up on the wrong side of
> the crib all damn week.
> 
> *Edit:* Btw if we always did whatever some French guy chiseled we would be bending over and taking
> it up the ass every time an invading force headed our direction.


You know, for a guy that hangs with fairies, you talk a good game of bullshit and prove you are even more full of it.

Emma Lazarus was not a man. It was a woman... a JEWISH woman. It all comes down to talk of taking it up the ass. Sounds like you have a lot of experience with that one given the people you attract as supporters.


----------



## PaulS

What happened to the rule against personal attacks?


----------



## SAR-1L

The Resister said:


> You know, for a guy that hangs with fairies, you talk a good game of bullshit and prove you are even more full of it.


*
THE GLOVES ARE OFF KIDS!!!! * ::redsnipe::

You know for a neurotic self centered blow hard like yourself, you sure are quick to slam everyone on the forums by calling them "fairies".
The same *dipshit asshole mother fucking cunt bag*, who gets so irreversibly butt hurt that someone mistyped his name by a single letter.

Why don't you just pack it up and go home if you can't play nice with others. 
You seem to have an issue with every single ****ing person you meet, and everyone
is sooo mean to you, mistreating you all the time, just cause they don't see it your way.

I tried to be nice to you initially but you went and threw that in my face not once, but twice.
Reminds me a lot of those guys over there in the sand killing our soldiers with weapons donated
from our dear and loving Muslim president.

I know you feel like a pretty tough keyboard warrior when you copy paste your links, and go on
rants trying to make everyone see shit your way, but all I see is a waste of a forum account
on a sad little punk advertising some other forum community in your siggy you self serving **** nugget.


----------



## SAR-1L

PaulS said:


> What happened to the rule against personal attacks?


While I respect the moderators and rules of the forums, Mr. Camp Wussy Pants started
accusing everyone in the thread of "attacking him". so I thought it only fitting I start
showing him what a personal attack really feels like, not some single letter typo of his forum name.

*Edit:* Just waiting for Mommy Resister to get on here any second and give us a good lesson about
how violent and horrific it is to mistype a persons name by accident, S could just HTF if we aren't careful.

*Edit V2:* Resister I would really like to treat you like a human being, and engage in real conversation
like I do everyone else on this forum, it isn't too late! However you really gotta stop taking shit so personal,
every time someone posts something you don't agree with, especially a typo!


----------



## inceptor

I don't think it could be said any better than this:

"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism&#8230; a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen.

Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

For an American citizen to vote as a German-American, an Irish-American, or an English-American, is to be a traitor to American institutions; and those hyphenated Americans who terrorize American politicians by threats of the foreign vote are engaged in treason to the American Republic. - *Theodore Roosevelt, 1915 speech to the Catholic group the Knights of Columbus*"


----------



## PalmettoTree

If our government wanted illegal immigration stopped it would be stopped. If the people of this country wanted illegal immigration stopped it would be stopped.


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> You know, for a guy that hangs with fairies, you talk a good game of bullshit and prove you are even more full of it.
> 
> Emma Lazarus was not a man. It was a woman... a JEWISH woman. It all comes down to talk of taking it up the ass. Sounds like you have a lot of experience with that one given the people you attract as supporters.


Again with the gay thing huh? Why is it that YOU are the one always calling or implying that anyone who disagrees with you is gay? As often as you do it, everyone wonders if in fact it is YOU who swing that way.

A "JEWISH" woman? Been a BIGOT long?


----------



## sparkyprep

What's wrong with being gay? Why is that an insult?


----------



## The Resister

inceptor said:


> Actually resister, my post had NOTHING to do with you and just put out my thoughts. If that was wrong then, well I just don't know what to say.
> 
> I will direct this question to you though. Where on the base of the Statue of Liberty (which by the way is close to Ellis Island. What was Ellis Island used for?) does it say "hey, y'all just get in any way you can and we will take responsibility for your well being. Don't worry about how you get here, just get here"? Isn't that a little unfair to the immigrants who spend a lot of time and money to do things the right way?


inceptor,

I'll presume you want a direct and honest answer. Let's see if you will deal with it.

When our forefathers came to this land, THEY were the immigrants. Since the Declaration of Independence calls the natives "_savages_" within that document, you know that we had a bad relationship with those already here. So, given the reality of history, inceptor, I'd say most here are descendants of "_illegal aliens / immigrants_" as you erroneously call them. Still, our forefathers stayed and through the right of conquest they founded a nation built upon our culture.

Most of the people here today would reject the principles upon which our country was built (at least publicly) because the early courts had this to say:

_The words "people of the United States" and "citizens" are synonymous terms, and mean the same thing. They both describe the political body who ... form the sovereignty, and who hold the power and conduct the Government through their representatives.... The question before us is, whether the class of persons described in the plea in abatement [people of Aftican ancestry] compose a portion of this people, and are constituent members of this sovereignty? We think they are not, and that they are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word "citizens" in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States. On the contrary, they were at that time considered as a subordinate and inferior class of beings, who had been subjugated by the dominant race, and, whether emancipated or not, yet remained subject to their authority, and had no rights or privileges but such as those who held the power and the Government might choose to grant them_.

"_it is too clear for dispute, that the enslaved African race were not intended to be included, and formed no part of the people who framed and adopted this declaration_. . . ." Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)

A lot has happened in the last 157 years since the Dred Scott case was in court. The greatest and most significant thing as it relates to this argument was the illegally ratified 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment did several basic things:

1) The 14th Amendment created *two classes* of citizens: Preamble Citizens (the whites who founded this country) and 14th Amendment citizens having limited "_privileges and immunities_"

2) The 14th Amendment began a process to divest Preamble Citizens of their God given *unalienable* Rights

3) The 14th Amendment erased all barriers, giving the illusion of Rights to *all persons*. Let's look at it:

"_All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_." 14th Amendment

So, all citizens(sic) are entitled to privileges and immunities while a *person* is entitled to life, liberty, and property.

After six years of working in immigration law, bearing in mind I came from YOUR side of the political fence, it became apparent that there were not all that many "_right ways_" into the United States save of citizenship. You and I have a very different concept of things. You see, the letter of the law is that *all persons* are entitled to Liberty. That is the current law (though I believe the 14th Amendment to be illegally ratified.) Since all persons are entitled to Liberty, there can be (and no law exists) making immigration a crime. It is either *proper* entry OR *improper* entry. There is this phony argument over whether a *person* comes here the "_right way_" when none exists. It's because there is this belief among people like you that one must be a citizen in order to come here, work and exist. That means that government grants us rights so *unalienable* Rights are scoffed at.

It's a fine line, inceptor. Once you've willingly forfeited your Rights, you can NEVER - legally or politically, argue that they were taken. IF you want to reclaim America, you have to work within the confines of the 14th Amendment to exert those Rights and begin a process to restore the Republic. If you claim that citizenship is the key to Liberty, then government is God and through the de facto Democracy, you WILL be voted out of power after the 2016 elections. It's that simple.

I have to work within the parameters of the law to preserve my Liberty. I will not join a cause that asks people to ignorantly vote with a majority because they won't come right out and say what the early courts said. That back door approach has not resulted in any significant wins over the past decade plus. I'm not giving the foreigners anything. As guests, they cannot vote. As forced citizens, they will rule and they will rule with a vengeance.


----------



## Notsoyoung

Just some thoughts:

1) People who do not follow our immigration laws to come here are ILLEGAL ALIENS just like when I park my car in a no parking zone my car is ILLEGALLY parked. Argue all the semantics you want, they are ILLEGALS. They are NOT "undocumented".

2) ILLEGAL aliens DO NOT have Unalienable Rights to be here. To claim that they do is ludicrous. Let's get real, when someone claims that ILLEGAL aliens have a right to be here what they are really saying is that anyone who wants to enter our or any other country has the right to do so, no matter what, no background checks, no health checks, no seeing if they will be a benefit or detrimental to our country. 

3) Saying that those who are for securing our borders are people in favor of big government and a police state. Another moronic post. Another time for a reality check. What these people are really saying is that they want open borders. One of the MAIN purposes that a federal government was created was to provide for the common defense, which includes securing our borders. 

4) People who claim that ILLEGAL aliens are not ILLEGAL, that they have an unalienable right to be here, and that we should not secure our borders, and then claim that they are not in favor of open borders either think the we are incredible gullible or in fact are incredibly asinine themselves.


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> inceptor,
> 
> I'll presume you want a direct and honest answer. Let's see if you will deal with it.
> 
> When our forefathers came to this land, THEY were the immigrants. Since the Declaration of Independence calls the natives "_savages_" within that document, you know that we had a bad relationship with those already here. So, given the reality of history, inceptor, I'd say most here are descendants of "_illegal aliens / immigrants_" as you erroneously call them. Still, our forefathers stayed and through the right of conquest they founded a nation built upon our culture.
> 
> Most of the people here today would reject the principles upon which our country was built (at least publicly) because the early courts had this to say:
> 
> _The words "people of the United States" and "citizens" are synonymous terms, and mean the same thing. They both describe the political body who ... form the sovereignty, and who hold the power and conduct the Government through their representatives.... The question before us is, whether the class of persons described in the plea in abatement [people of Aftican ancestry] compose a portion of this people, and are constituent members of this sovereignty? We think they are not, and that they are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word "citizens" in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States. On the contrary, they were at that time considered as a subordinate and inferior class of beings, who had been subjugated by the dominant race, and, whether emancipated or not, yet remained subject to their authority, and had no rights or privileges but such as those who held the power and the Government might choose to grant them_.
> 
> "_it is too clear for dispute, that the enslaved African race were not intended to be included, and formed no part of the people who framed and adopted this declaration_. . . ." Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)
> 
> A lot has happened in the last 157 years since the Dred Scott case was in court. The greatest and most significant thing as it relates to this argument was the illegally ratified 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment did several basic things:
> 
> 1) The 14th Amendment created *two classes* of citizens: Preamble Citizens (the whites who founded this country) and 14th Amendment citizens having limited "_privileges and immunities_"
> 
> 2) The 14th Amendment began a process to divest Preamble Citizens of their God given *unalienable* Rights
> 
> 3) The 14th Amendment erased all barriers, giving the illusion of Rights to *all persons*. Let's look at it:
> 
> "_All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_." 14th Amendment
> 
> So, all citizens(sic) are entitled to privileges and immunities while a *person* is entitled to life, liberty, and property.
> 
> After six years of working in immigration law, bearing in mind I came from YOUR side of the political fence, it became apparent that there were not all that many "_right ways_" into the United States save of citizenship. You and I have a very different concept of things. You see, the letter of the law is that *all persons* are entitled to Liberty. That is the current law (though I believe the 14th Amendment to be illegally ratified.) Since all persons are entitled to Liberty, there can be (and no law exists) making immigration a crime. It is either *proper* entry OR *improper* entry. There is this phony argument over whether a *person* comes here the "_right way_" when none exists. It's because there is this belief among people like you that one must be a citizen in order to come here, work and exist. That means that government grants us rights so *unalienable* Rights are scoffed at.
> 
> It's a fine line, inceptor. Once you've willingly forfeited your Rights, you can NEVER - legally or politically, argue that they were taken. IF you want to reclaim America, you have to work within the confines of the 14th Amendment to exert those Rights and begin a process to restore the Republic. If you claim that citizenship is the key to Liberty, then government is God and through the de facto Democracy, you WILL be voted out of power after the 2016 elections. It's that simple.
> 
> I have to work within the parameters of the law to preserve my Liberty. I will not join a cause that asks people to ignorantly vote with a majority because they won't come right out and say what the early courts said. That back door approach has not resulted in any significant wins over the past decade plus. I'm not giving the foreigners anything. As guests, they cannot vote. As forced citizens, they will rule and they will rule with a vengeance.


More pure BULL. Native Americans did not have immigration control. HOW DID THAT WORK OUT FOR THEM? Let me reiterate, PURE BULL!


----------



## The Resister

PalmettoTree said:


> If our government wanted illegal immigration stopped it would be stopped. If the people of this country wanted illegal immigration stopped it would be stopped.


The *FACTS:*

There is no such thing as unlawful or illegal immigration. Congress tried to pass such a law, but the bill *failed*.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr4437/text See Section 203. If entry were illegal or unlawful, *WHY* change the law?


----------



## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> Just some thoughts:
> 
> 1) People who do not follow our immigration laws to come here are ILLEGAL ALIENS just like when I park my car in a no parking zone my car is ILLEGALLY parked. Argue all the semantics you want, they are ILLEGALS. They are NOT "undocumented".
> 
> 2) ILLEGAL aliens DO NOT have Unalienable Rights to be here. To claim that they do is ludicrous. Let's get real, when someone claims that ILLEGAL aliens have a right to be here what they are really saying is that anyone who wants to enter our or any other country has the right to do so, no matter what, no background checks, no health checks, no seeing if they will be a benefit or detrimental to our country.
> 
> 3) Saying that those who are for securing our borders are people in favor of big government and a police state. Another moronic post. Another time for a reality check. What these people are really saying is that they want open borders. One of the MAIN purposes that a federal government was created was to provide for the common defense, which includes securing our borders.
> 
> 4) People who claim that ILLEGAL aliens are not ILLEGAL, that they have an unalienable right to be here, and that we should not secure our borders, and then claim that they are not in favor of open borders either think the we are incredible gullible or in fact are incredibly asinine themselves.


I'm going to repeat my post to inceptor after responding to you. Look, I didn't write the freaking laws. All I can do is work within the parameters of the law. IF immigration were unlawful or illegal, you still have to explain *WHY* Congress tried to change the wording of the law to reflect that and failed. As to what I personally believe, it is irrelevant. The people who matter are those with the power and authority to interpret the law. The current law is that it is NOT "_illegal_" as per the definition of the word for people to come here. I've cited the law many times before. Please don't go there. I can bury you with what the law says and will do so. But you need to quit blaming me for what the law is. I did not have a damn thing to do with it... not in any way, fashion, or form.


----------



## The Resister

inceptor,

I'll presume you want a direct and honest answer. Let's see if you will deal with it.

When our forefathers came to this land, THEY were the immigrants. Since the Declaration of Independence calls the natives "_savages_" within that document, you know that we had a bad relationship with those already here. So, given the reality of history, inceptor, I'd say most here are descendants of _"illegal aliens / immigrants_" as you erroneously call them. Still, our forefathers stayed and through the right of conquest they founded a nation built upon our culture.

Most of the people here today would reject the principles upon which our country was built (at least publicly) because the early courts had this to say:

_ "The words "people of the United States" and "citizens" are synonymous terms, and mean the same thing. They both describe the political body who ... form the sovereignty, and who hold the power and conduct the Government through their representatives.... The question before us is, whether the class of persons described in the plea in abatement [people of Aftican ancestry] compose a portion of this people, and are constituent members of this sovereignty? We think they are not, and that they are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word "citizens" in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States. On the contrary, they were at that time considered as a subordinate and inferior class of beings, who had been subjugated by the dominant race, and, whether emancipated or not, yet remained subject to their authority, and had no rights or privileges but such as those who held the power and the Government might choose to grant them.

"it is too clear for dispute, that the enslaved African race were not intended to be included, and formed no part of the people who framed and adopted this declaration_. . . ." Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)

A lot has happened in the last 157 years since the Dred Scott case was in court. The greatest and most significant thing as it relates to this argument was the illegally ratified 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment did several basic things:

1) The 14th Amendment created *two* classes of citizens: Preamble Citizens (the whites who founded this country) and 14th Amendment citizens having limited "privileges and immunities"

2) The 14th Amendment began a process to divest Preamble Citizens of their God given unalienable Rights

3) The 14th Amendment erased all barriers, giving the illusion of Rights to all persons. Let's look at it:

"_All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any *person* of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws_." 14th Amendment

So, all citizens(sic) are entitled to privileges and immunities while a person is entitled to life, liberty, and property.

After six years of working in immigration law, bearing in mind I came from YOUR side of the political fence, it became apparent that there were not all that many _"right ways_" into the United States save of citizenship. You and I have a very different concept of things. You see, the letter of the law is that all persons are entitled to Liberty. That is the current law (though I believe the 14th Amendment to be illegally ratified.) Since all persons are entitled to Liberty, there can be (and no law exists) making immigration a crime. It is either proper entry OR improper entry. There is this phony argument over whether a person comes here the "_right way_" when none exists. It's because there is this belief among people like you that one must be a citizen in order to come here, work and exist. That means that government grants us rights so unalienable Rights are scoffed at.

It's a fine line, inceptor. Once you've willingly forfeited your Rights, you can NEVER - legally or politically, argue that they were taken. IF you want to reclaim America, you have to work within the confines of the 14th Amendment to exert those Rights and begin a process to restore the Republic. If you claim that citizenship is the key to Liberty, then government is God and through the de facto Democracy, you WILL be voted out of power after the 2016 elections. It's that simple.

I have to work within the parameters of the law to preserve my Liberty. I will not join a cause that asks people to ignorantly vote with a majority because they won't come right out and say what the early courts said. That back door approach has not resulted in any significant wins over the past decade plus. I'm not giving the foreigners anything. As guests, they cannot vote. As forced citizens, they will rule and they will rule with a vengeance.


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Federal government is shipping illegal aliens all over the country. They have decided that they will no longer make public just where they are going to send them, and they are trying to keep from the public just how many diseases these people are infected with. On thin that they you CAN be sure of, they won't send any of them to Washington D.C..


----------



## Notsoyoung

ILLEGAL aliens are NOT "guests".


----------



## inceptor

The Resister said:


> inceptor,
> 
> I'll presume you want a direct and honest answer. Let's see if you will deal with it.
> 
> When our forefathers came to this land, THEY were the immigrants. Since the Declaration of Independence calls the natives "_savages_" within that document, you know that we had a bad relationship with those already here. So, given the reality of history, inceptor, I'd say most here are descendants of "_illegal aliens / immigrants_" as you erroneously call them. Still, our forefathers stayed and through the right of conquest they founded a nation built upon our culture.


First, by your statement, all people were illegal immigrants. What you are citing is a land that was not an organized country at the time. Even the "Native Americans" migrated here from Asia when there was a land bridge connecting Asia with the North American continent. That would mean that the Native Americans aren't really native.

So if we accept that premise, all people except those in modern day Iraq and Africa are illegal immigrants. Why Iraq and Africa? According to the Bible, human life began in the Garden of Eden which according to scholars was in modern day Iraq. The oldest skeleton found was named Lucy in Africa. This was not a complete skeleton but enough of one to determine it was female and carbon dating shows this is the oldest evidence of a human being.

Early on there were no countries and people migrated as needed. Those people evolved into organizational entities which became cities and countries. A civilized people make rules and laws for a peaceful existence. These people did organize countries and borders. Once countries became common place, some decided they wanted to expand and rule. Genghis Kahn, Napoleon and others sought to rule countries they did not possess at the time. So through "the right of conquest" nations were built and rebuilt.

Now, using your premise, there should be no borders since all lands had migration except Iraq and Africa. And since it appears life began in Iraq and Africa, all people have citizenship there. Or does your premise only apply to the US?


----------



## SARGE7402

Resister: You really ought to look up the Code section before you start pontificating about what's a crime and what is not. 

The federal statute is very clear in that it separates the Criminal (Punishments that can net you jail time ) and Civil (those that only result in a Fine) Penalties.
Now unless you know of another Code section in the US Code that addresses this point, it's about time that you own up to the facts.


8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code – Section 1325: Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;

misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States

at any time or place other than as designated by immigration

officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration

officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United

States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the

willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first

commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or

imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent

commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or

imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties

Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to

enter) the United States at a time or place other than as

designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil

penalty of -

(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or

attempted entry); or

(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of

an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under

this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not

in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be

imposed.


----------



## Slippy

IF the US did not have a welfare system that gives freely to others who enter this country;
IF every person that entered the US from another country worked, produced and lived off the fruit of their own labor;

IF the above was the case, then we would welcome all to the US. But that is not the case so I am in favor of closing the Southern border entirely and reducing the welfare budget by 10% immediately and by another 80% January 1, 2015. Spread the word to the rest of the world that the days of getting freebies from the US are OVER. Deport all that you can as fast as you can and that includes the scumbags incarcerated.


----------



## Seneca

I think that was the intention, to offer those who could live off the fruits of their labor access. What we have now is a free for all at the southern border. When the fear of being voted out for inaction is greater than the fear of not currying enough favor to get re elected. We may see some action in regards to curbing the mess along the southern border.


----------



## inceptor

Slippy said:


> IF the US did not have a welfare system that gives freely to others who enter this country;
> IF every person that entered the US from another country worked, produced and lived off the fruit of their own labor;
> 
> IF the above was the case, then we would welcome all to the US. But that is not the case so I am in favor of closing the Southern border entirely and reducing the welfare budget by 10% immediately and by another 80% January 1, 2015. Spread the word to the rest of the world that the days of getting freebies from the US are OVER. Deport all that you can as fast as you can and that includes the scumbags incarcerated.


That's a nice thought Slippy but not reality. I am watching This Week on ABC. Martha Radditz did an interview with Rick Perry. Perry was asked why Texas wanted to deport the illegal immigrants. Every time Perry gave an answer she interrupted him. Basically she condemned his actions. Then she was beating up Washington State and Texas because of gun laws. Now ABC is discussing legalized marijuana and what a good idea it is.

We are on a serious downward spiral. smh


----------



## Notsoyoung

When there was a time when the U.S. didn't have immigration laws, people who immigrated here could hardly be considered illegal aliens. Those who claim that they were are trying to make an idiotic point.


----------



## keith9365

inceptor said:


> That's a nice thought Slippy but not reality. I am watching This Week on ABC. Martha Radditz did an interview with Rick Perry. Perry was asked why Texas wanted to deport the illegal immigrants. Every time Perry gave an answer she interrupted him. Basically she condemned his actions. Then she was beating up Washington State and Texas because of gun laws. Now ABC is discussing legalized marijuana and what a good idea it is.
> 
> We are on a serious downward spiral. smh


Get as many illegal aliens here as possible and make grateful democratic voters out of them. Legalize dope and dumb down the school system to make gullible voters of them as well. Why should I learn to fish when the government will give me a fish for free? You have plenty of fish, I think you owe me some and the government should force you to share with me.


----------



## inceptor

keith9365 said:


> Get as many illegal aliens here as possible and make grateful democratic voters out of them. Legalize dope and dumb down the school system to make gullible voters of them as well. Why should I learn to fish when the government will give me a fish for free? You have plenty of fish, I think you owe me some and the government should force you to share with me.


Ain't it the truth. :sad:


----------



## Notsoyoung

keith9365 said:


> Get as many illegal aliens here as possible and make grateful democratic voters out of them. Legalize dope and dumb down the school system to make gullible voters of them as well. Why should I learn to fish when the government will give me a fish for free? You have plenty of fish, I think you owe me some and the government should force you to share with me.


And if you complain about it you are just some greedy uncaring sleezebag who probably did something either illegal or immoral to get all of those fish in the first place. By the way, on a related note I heard on TV this weekend that teaching U.S. History is no longer required in most High Schools in the U.S..


----------



## Deebo

I say we start a hands accros Texas similar to hands across America, and physically stop these mf's. You want in legally, that's fine, stand in line. Turn them around, send them back, see how damn fast Mexico takes care if them. And by the way, I did write something that involved heads and hammers, but it had to many Fbombs to post.


----------



## SARGE7402

Just to keep things honest the following are from Blacks Law Dictionary

LEGAL
1. Conforming to the law; according to law; required or permitted by law; not forbidden or discountenanced by law; good and effectual in law



Law Dictionary: L Information and Definitions from Black's Law Dictionary
ILLEGAL
Not authorized by law; Illicit ; unlawful; contrary to law.Sometimes this term means merely that which lacks authority of or support from law;but more frequently it imports a violation.



Law Dictionary: I Information and Definitions from Black's Law Dictionary


So if an alien comes to this country not in accordance with US Immigration Law they are by definition here illegaly


----------



## keith9365

SARGE7402 said:


> Just to keep things honest the following are from Blacks Law Dictionary
> 
> LEGAL
> 1. Conforming to the law; according to law; required or permitted by law; not forbidden or discountenanced by law; good and effectual in law
> 
> Law Dictionary: L Information and Definitions from Black's Law Dictionary
> ILLEGAL
> Not authorized by law; Illicit ; unlawful; contrary to law.Sometimes this term means merely that which lacks authority of or support from law;but more frequently it imports a violation.
> 
> Law Dictionary: I Information and Definitions from Black's Law Dictionary
> 
> So if an alien comes to this country not in accordance with US Immigration Law they are by definition here illegaly


Well there is only one explanation for this definition of legal vs illegal. It's racist, insensitive, part of the war on women, causes global warming, and harmful to animals.


----------



## Slippy

keith9365 said:


> Well there is only one explanation for this definition of legal vs illegal. It's racist, insensitive, part of the war on women, causes global warming, and harmful to animals.


AND the abortionists will also yell..."But it's for the children".


----------



## SARGE7402

You forgot to add that it's part of the New World Order of the Trilateral Commission financed by the evil bankers of the Fed and only meant to enslave the common citizen who don''t support the illegal government in place nor it's methods of stealing their hard earned money.


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Just to keep things honest the following are from Blacks Law Dictionary
> 
> LEGAL
> 1. Conforming to the law; according to law; required or permitted by law; not forbidden or discountenanced by law; good and effectual in law
> 
> Law Dictionary: L Information and Definitions from Black's Law Dictionary
> ILLEGAL
> Not authorized by law; Illicit ; unlawful; contrary to law.Sometimes this term means merely that which lacks authority of or support from law;but more frequently it imports a violation.
> 
> Law Dictionary: I Information and Definitions from Black's Law Dictionary
> 
> So if an alien comes to this country not in accordance with US Immigration Law they are by definition here illegaly


I find it ironic that an uneducated guy who pretends to be a cop had to be schooled on high school civics when you claimed the Constitution made the Supreme Court the highest authority in the land as per the Constitution.

So, now you've done and looked up a word in Blacks Law Dictionary. I did too... a long time ago. Here is a complete refutation of your position:

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Understanding the law 1

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Understanding the Law 2

The second link fully addresses the issue of whether or not things are legal or illegal, etc.

Finally, all of you should know that the most *liberal group in America is the American Bar Association*. They, like SARGE7402, interpret the law the same way. But, when a conservative Republican Attorney General went to admonish the ABA, he used the same arguments that I keep hammering away with. Attorney General Michael Mukasey said this to the ABA:

"_Not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime_"

The fact is, every time the issue has been brought up in courts, the courts have ruled that improper civil violations (and that is what improper entry is categorized as in the USC) they have been ruled *not to be* crimes; therefore, not illegal.

ANYONE who wants the facts should access the links in this post and get both sides of the story. You will not win at the polls NOR in the courts if all you have is majority sentiment that civil violations are crimes. It will take looking up more than one word in Blacks.


----------



## SARGE7402

Section 2

1: *The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States*, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;--between a State and Citizens of another State;10 --between Citizens of different States, --between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

That does make them the Arbitrator of whether or not a law or action is constitutional or not.

I never said that the SCOTUS was the supreme law in the land.

Perhaps we're not reading the same constitution. Is there a separate one for anti-lawyers.

And I'm very sorry if you don't agree with me or most of the USofA. That's a problem that you'll have to deal with not us.

And I guess that you didn't read the US Code . Or is it that you only read that portion of the code that suits your view of the world.

And how is it that I'm an uneducated pretend cop.

I guess that that's your way of deflecting folks attention from the flaws in your arguments. And if it works for you that makes you no better than most of the politicians that you rail against.

Have fun in Resister World


----------



## PaulS

The Resister said:


> I find it ironic that an uneducated guy who pretends to be a cop had to be schooled on high school civics when you claimed the Constitution made the Supreme Court the highest authority in the land as per the Constitution.


Again with personal attacks! We have rules against this kind of behavior.


----------



## MrsInor

Turtle.


----------



## SARGE7402

PaulS said:


> Again with personal attacks! We have rules against this kind of behavior.


Paul I don't mind, he's not going to change one bit. And besides I've been called a lot worse by much nicer and such folks than him.


----------



## sparkyprep

Makes for a boring thread.


----------



## Slippy

PaulS said:


> Again with personal attacks! We have rules against this kind of behavior.


PaulS
Some know of no other way.


----------



## Denton

Anyone else getting tired of threads being warped and hijacked - by both or either?

Anyway, has this been added to the fray?

BREAKING! FEDS TO BRING IN RIOT SQUAD AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROTESTERS! |



> Jeremy Oliver, a resident of Temecula, California-a town that neighbors Murrieta-told Breitbart Texas that local police officers warned the protesters that "it's going to get ugly."
> 
> Oliver said, "The feds are pissed that they haven't been able to use this facility. Officers out there warned people that federal agents will be in Murrieta on Monday-they are going to get the next bus through no matter what. Riot gear and shields will be used to push the crowd back."


That the citizenry are rightfully concerned about what is happening, the federal government is going to shove this crap down their throats. Even if they have to hurt our own citizens in the process.


----------



## Inor

Denton said:


> Anyone else getting tired of threads being warped and hijacked - by both or either?
> 
> Anyway, has this been added to the fray?
> 
> BREAKING! FEDS TO BRING IN RIOT SQUAD AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROTESTERS! |
> 
> That the citizenry are rightfully concerned about what is happening, the federal government is going to shove this crap down their throats. Even if they have to hurt our own citizens in the process.


They have also removed all of the updates to their web site on when and where they are shipping the illegals to. It seems the feds are hell bent to ship these people anywhere but where they came from. Not good...


----------



## Denton

Inor said:


> They have also removed all of the updates to their web site on when and where they are shipping the illegals to. It seems the feds are hell bent to ship these people anywhere but where they came from. Not good...


Call me paranoid, but I see this as being just one more act of destabilizing the nation.


----------



## Notsoyoung

Inor said:


> They have also removed all of the updates to their web site on when and where they are shipping the illegals to. It seems the feds are hell bent to ship these people anywhere but where they came from. Not good...


You can be sure of one thing, they WON'T ship any of them to D.C..


----------



## Notsoyoung

Arklatex said:


> Resistor, you keep posting links to your website. How many people on this forum have told you they are not interested in clicking on a link to another forum in which you are an administrator? If you wish to get your point across do it here on prepperforums.net. Or do it there, not both... you always bring up past insults that have been thrown at you by various members here like you're some sort of victim. You act like you're the best thing since sliced bread. Anybody that has a different viewpoint than you is a simpleton. If you don't like it here then kindly do not let the door hit you on the ass. We are not interested in what you post on another forum. BTW Inceptor brought to my attention something you may find useful:
> 
> View attachment 5948


He's just trying to get the numbers up on his loser website. DON'T FALL FOR IT!


----------



## Notsoyoung

Has anyone heard any of the Democrats or any other protectors of the ILLEGAL ALIENS claim that they are not actually here ILLEGALLY? Nope. Just one guy on this forum. They might claim that it is demeaning to call them ILLEGALS. They might say that there are too many of them to send back. They might claim that they are only here to better themselves and provide for their families. But none of them claim that they aren't here ILLEGALLY.


----------



## The Resister

PaulS said:


> Again with personal attacks! We have rules against this kind of behavior.


You know, for a guy that likes to keep pushing that point, you were amazingly silent when I was the one being on the receiving end.


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Section 2
> 
> 1: *The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States*, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;--between a State and Citizens of another State;10 --between Citizens of different States, --between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.
> 
> That does make them the Arbitrator of whether or not a law or action is constitutional or not.
> 
> I never said that the SCOTUS was the supreme law in the land.
> 
> Perhaps we're not reading the same constitution. Is there a separate one for anti-lawyers.
> 
> And I'm very sorry if you don't agree with me or most of the USofA. That's a problem that you'll have to deal with not us.
> 
> And I guess that you didn't read the US Code . Or is it that you only read that portion of the code that suits your view of the world.
> 
> And how is it that I'm an uneducated pretend cop.
> 
> I guess that that's your way of deflecting folks attention from the flaws in your arguments. And if it works for you that makes you no better than most of the politicians that you rail against.
> 
> Have fun in Resister World


I have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. The United States Supreme Court, of their own accord, decided to appoint themselves as the final arbiters of what the law is. So, yes, Of course, you've conveniently forgotten where we disagreed on that point, but it is irrelevant.

Whatever you think you've proven in your other quote from the Constitution has no bearing on what we were discussing. But, since we're talking Constitution, we can have a quote contest:

"_The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person_." Article 9

As of date, no STATE has been given a numerical number of people they can or cannot admit into their respective states. So, without advocating an ex post facto law, how are you going to go back and rectify the damage that's already been done?


----------



## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> Has anyone heard any of the Democrats or any other protectors of the ILLEGAL ALIENS claim that they are not actually here ILLEGALLY? Nope. Just one guy on this forum. They might claim that it is demeaning to call them ILLEGALS. They might say that there are too many of them to send back. They might claim that they are only here to better themselves and provide for their families. But none of them claim that they aren't here ILLEGALLY.


The word "illegal" has been bandied about quite liberally by the Tea Party and those with an anti - immigrant viewpoint. ALL I heard while working in immigration law is that the foreigners were not here illegally. Okay, Notsoyoung has heard it too, but he likes to cover ground we've covered at least a dozen times. Here you go:

"_Aliens in removal proceedings have no right to counsel, including Government-appointed counsel, under the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution because the Sixth Amendment_*applies only to criminal proceedings and removal proceedings are civil in nature."* Cite as 24 I&N Dec. 710 (A.G. 2009) Interim Decision #3632 710 Matter of Enrique Salas COMPEAN, Respondent File A078 566 977

That is a *ruling by the highest immigration official in the United States* on the interpretation of improper entry (8 USC 1325)





 - Rudy Giuliani, former PROSECUTOR

"_Illegal presence" as the offense is called {what it is called by laymen, not by statute}, is *not a violation of the U.S. criminal code*. A person cannot be sent to prison for being here without authorization from immigration authorities. It is, however, a violation of civil immigration laws, for which the federal government can impose civil penalties, namely deportation_. Chris Christie, former PROSECUTOR

Christie clarifies: 'Illegal' immigrants are in civil violation | NJ.com

"_And yes, when we find illegal workers, yes, appropriate action, some of which is criminal, most of that is civil, because crossing the border is not a crime per se_.." Janet Napolitano in her position as the head of the Dept. of Homeland (IN)Security

DHS Janet Napolitano claims illegal immigration "is not a crime" - Norfolk Crime | Examiner.com

I've quoted from the left; I've quoted from the right; I've quoted from down the center. The law is what those who interpret and enforce the law say it is. Shame on Notsoyoung. He consistently tries to dissuade you from researching the truth. He pretends that I write the freaking law or that I had some say in the rulings. Shame on him.

I worked my ass off to learn this stuff so that we could develop new strategies to deal with a serious problem. Instead, we are plagued by ill educated people that want a constant pissing match. Notsoyoung has had every opportunity to find the facts. The facts are that there is no crime called illegal immigration. That is the way the law is interpreted and enforced. You cannot change that by holding me responsible for what those in control of the system say.

It should dawn on people like Nosoyoung that after more than a decade of having their asses handed to them over and over in political fights they may want to invest a modicum of effort in learning the *facts* surrounding immigration. The reason I've never lost a case in my life is due to a simple strategy: BEFORE I get into it with the other side, I can argue their case better than they can. The anti - immigrant side has NEVER once tried that strategy. So, they lose and they lose BIG. They lose so big that Establishment Republicans have stooped to enlisting Democrats to help them beat Tea Party candidates.

I can do the same things the Tea Party *claims* they want to do without pissing the liberals off enough to side with Republicans and make it impossible for the Right to succeed. But, I'm not taking the heat for what the law says NOR will I let political propaganda prostitutes claim that because I tell you the truth, it is any indication of my own personal views.

Notsoyoung has been answered.


----------



## SARGE7402

First the last I looked the executive branch does not write the laws (Congress the legislative Branch does) nor do they rule on the Constitutionality of them (That's the Federal Courts). No what some executive flunky decides not to enforce or to babble about is not what the law says. The law says that the Civil penalties are separate from the other Jail penalties. 

Now most of us agree that this administration does not enforce the laws. Just cause they don't enforce them does that mean the law no longer exists?

And Can I get a show of hands: If you are sent to jail for six months for committing the offense of entering the USofA in a not legal manner would a reasonable man believe they have committed a crime?


----------



## SARGE7402

The Resister said:


> I have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about. The United States Supreme Court, of their own accord, decided to appoint themselves as the final arbiters of what the law is. So, yes, Of course, you've conveniently forgotten where we disagreed on that point, but it is irrelevant.
> 
> Whatever you think you've proven in your other quote from the Constitution has no bearing on what we were discussing. But, since we're talking Constitution, we can have a quote contest:
> 
> "_The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person_." Article 9
> 
> As of date, no STATE has been given a numerical number of people they can or cannot admit into their respective states. So, without advocating an ex post facto law, how are you going to go back and rectify the damage that's already been done?


Resister: Have you even read the constitution?

Article III says the Judicial Power rests with one Supreme court and it shall extend to all cases arising from this Constitution.

So if a question comes up on the legality of an issue, who decides it? The Supreme court. Whether it's does the president have the ability to legally make recess appointments while congress is still in session, or Does an individual need to be mirandized before he can be questioned while in custody, that power rests in the Judicial Branch and no where else.

It doesn't rest with the People. It doesn't rest with Congress. It doesn't rest with the Executive.

As with regards to how many can be admitted, If congress never said how many then the states can let migrate in however many they want. But that's not in fact what has happened. Congress has on numerous occasions set limitations on the number of folks that can legally come to this country. These include the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882; The Geary Act of 1892; the Immigration Act of 1917; the Emergency Quota Act of 1921 just to name a few. So to say that Congress has never weighed in is a crock of horse poo.

And remember it's only in Communist Countries that you have to be told what you can do. Here we're told what we can not do.


----------



## inceptor

SARGE7402 said:


> Just cause they don't enforce them does that mean the law no longer exists?


That would depend on who you ask. The AG would pretend they no longer exist.


----------



## SARGE7402

inceptor said:


> That would depend on who you ask. The AG would pretend they no longer exist.


Don't disagree with that. However the law is still the law. Just cause a bozo doesn't enforce it doesn't mean it no longer exists.


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> First the last I looked the executive branch does not write the laws (Congress the legislative Branch does) nor do they rule on the Constitutionality of them (That's the Federal Courts). No what some executive flunky decides not to enforce or to babble about is not what the law says. The law says that the Civil penalties are separate from the other Jail penalties.
> 
> Now most of us agree that this administration does not enforce the laws. Just cause they don't enforce them does that mean the law no longer exists?
> 
> And Can I get a show of hands: If you are sent to jail for six months for committing the offense of entering the USofA in a not legal manner would a reasonable man believe they have committed a crime?


The reality is, NOBODY has ever been sent to jail for entering the country without papers. You have the highest legal authorities in the nation saying so AND* YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE LEGAL REALITY WITH A SHOW OF HANDS OFF A DISCUSSION BOARD!*

If you bothered to read the damn law, a person can be caught entering improperly and NO criminal offense applies. However, if you *READ*Title 8, it specifically tells you that there are other things a foreigner can do that will be prosecuted under Title 18 of the Criminal Code. A few of the things listed:

1) Trying to elude authorities

2) Lying to Authorities

3) Using false identification documents

4) Marriage fraud

5) *Repeated* civil violations

That list of things CAN be prosecuted as crimes in conjunction with the improper entry (which is civil law not covered in Title 18.) Raise your hands all you want, but you cannot answer two questions without learning the truth:

A) Presupposing that improper meant illegal or unlawful, you would have to explain WHY Congress tried to change the wording. You ****ing can't "SARGE" and

B) IF improper entry were a crime, why is it not in the Criminal Code (Title 18?) How come Title 8 has to mention crimes a foreigner can be charged with in connection to the separate charge of improper entry?

Like I said, you have had your asses handed to you over and over again for more than a decade. The best you can do is a popularity vote by those who cannot cite a single WIN in the legislatures or courts since the spotlight has been on them???


----------



## pharmer14

Resister... Serious question:

Is there a border anywhere in the world that, in your view, is a good example of what you suggest the US/Mexico border should be?


----------



## Inor

The Resister said:


> The reality is, NOBODY has ever been sent to jail for entering the country without papers. You have the highest legal authorities in the nation saying so AND* YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE LEGAL REALITY WITH A SHOW OF HANDS OFF A DISCUSSION BOARD!*


Does this mean that I can start using my Mexicannon to shoot them back across the border? I am 99.999% sure that nobody has ever been sent to jail for shooting a Mexican out of a cannon before either.


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Resister: Have you even read the constitution?
> 
> Article III says the Judicial Power rests with one Supreme court and it shall extend to all cases arising from this Constitution.
> 
> So if a question comes up on the legality of an issue, who decides it? The Supreme court. Whether it's does the president have the ability to legally make recess appointments while congress is still in session, or Does an individual need to be mirandized before he can be questioned while in custody, that power rests in the Judicial Branch and no where else.
> 
> It doesn't rest with the People. It doesn't rest with Congress. It doesn't rest with the Executive.
> 
> As with regards to how many can be admitted, If congress never said how many then the states can let migrate in however many they want. But that's not in fact what has happened. Congress has on numerous occasions set limitations on the number of folks that can legally come to this country. These include the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882; The Geary Act of 1892; the Immigration Act of 1917; the Emergency Quota Act of 1921 just to name a few. So to say that Congress has never weighed in is a crock of horse poo.
> 
> And remember it's only in Communist Countries that you have to be told what you can do. Here we're told what we can not do.


You obviously have a reading comprehension issue. What Congress mandates for the nation, as a whole, has no bearing upon numbers that apply to an individual STATE.


----------



## inceptor

pharmer14 said:


> Resister... Serious question:
> 
> Is there a border anywhere in the world that, in your view, is a good example of what you suggest the US/Mexico border should be?


Don't feel bad. I asked a similar question and he ignored me too. At least I'm in good company.

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace ....... John Lennon

I think Lennon was and the resister is a one world govt supporter.


----------



## Inor

inceptor said:


> Don't feel bad. I asked a similar question and he ignored me too. At least I'm in good company.
> 
> Imagine there's no countries
> It isn't hard to do
> Nothing to kill or die for
> And no religion too
> Imagine all the people
> Living life in peace ....... John Lennon
> 
> I think Lennon was and the resister is a one world govt supporter.


Yeah... But Ringo is awesome!


----------



## inceptor

I happen to like Ringo ::clapping::


----------



## Inor

George is pretty cool too


----------



## inceptor

George was pretty good too but Ringo, he was just fun.


----------



## Inor

Indeed Sir! Ringo is by far my favorite. But George... He was good too.

Then you have the Stones, Jimi, CCR, Meat Loaf, Steppin' Wolf, Zeppelin...


----------



## Notsoyoung

John Lennon was like most liberals, a huge hypocrite. For all of his talk and songs about redistribution of wealth, he was a mufti-millionaire. When he and his ugly wife talked about the evil of wealth, they didn't mean THEIR wealth. By the way, they immigrated to the U.S. for tax purposes. As I said, HYPOCRITES.


----------



## The Resister

pharmer14 said:


> Resister... Serious question:
> 
> Is there a border anywhere in the world that, in your view, is a good example of what you suggest the US/Mexico border should be?


I think our country, as it was originally founded, exemplified a sound basis for free enterprise and Liberty. It's not necessary to try and replicate things that have failed in the past NOR is it wise to build up a POLICE STATE that has the power to tyrannize everybody with no recourse for the general citizenry.

Again, we could do a better job than what is on the table today, but it will take a serious discussion. If / when you get tired of trying to have that discussion here, there are always other places to catch up with me and get honest, well thought out ideas.


----------



## SARGE7402

Well it looks like Resister has put all of us that disagree with his positions in our place.


----------



## Lucky Jim

I like the Beatles music but I never cared much for them as people.
John liked putting people down, George went with that Harry Krishna shit, grouchy Ringo refuses to sign autographs, and McCartney is a mean tightwad.
Apart from that they're fine..


----------



## SquirrelBait

What irony if Paul is the last Beatle standing...


----------



## ekim

Time to leave some dead bodies on the boarder with a sign, enter the USA illegally at your own pearl, survivor's will be shot again!


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Well it looks like Resister has put all of us that disagree with his positions in our place.


I haven't even begun to put you in your place. It was just on the radio that Obama heard you and is acting accordingly. Now, all those who crossed the border improperly will not be sent home until they get a hearing. Critics of Obama are crying like babies. It will take YEARS and BILLIONS of dollars. Well, there you go. You done and got a criminal process started for a civil offense.

I guess Michael Mukasey had it right the first time when he denied the foreigners a taxpayer paid attorney because the offense is *civil*. When it remained a CIVIL matter, they either paid for their own attorney or got deported. Way to freaking go SARGE 7402.


----------



## Slippy

Resister,

What can this great Nation do to stop the improper border crossings?

Your friend,

Slippy


----------



## SARGE7402

The Resister said:


> I haven't even begun to put you in your place. It was just on the radio that Obama heard you and is acting accordingly. Now, all those who crossed the border improperly will not be sent home until they get a hearing. Critics of Obama are crying like babies. It will take YEARS and BILLIONS of dollars. Well, there you go. You done and got a criminal process started for a civil offense.
> 
> I guess Michael Mukasey had it right the first time when he denied the foreigners a taxpayer paid attorney because the offense is *civil*. When it remained a CIVIL matter, they either paid for their own attorney or got deported. Way to freaking go SARGE 7402.


Have fun young man. And if you think I have a direct line to BHO, you're even more delusional that I thought you were.

And I guess you really need to take a good hard look at how the criminal justice systems work here in the USofA. At least here in Virginia regardless of if the offense is Criminal, ABC, Traffic, Fish and Game, or Animal Control if the Commonwealth Attorney is seeking Jail time as part of a conviction - even if it's suspended - the Judges all advise the accused that they have the right to an attorney and have them fill out a statement of worth to see if they qualify for a court appointed one. Even if they elect not to hire an attorney and elect to represent themselves, they have to sign a waiver of their right to counsel.

Now I'm sorry that you still think an immigration violation that has the potential of getting the accused jail time is in your opinion a Civil Offense. Sorry Jimmy it's just not so. And no one in the Executive Branch can tell you otherwise.

Now what they can do - and it's usually within their authority - is to waive jail time as part of any sentence that may be handed down. If no jail time is involved then the right to a court appointed attorney goes away.

take care little fella.


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> I haven't even begun to put you in your place. It was just on the radio that Obama heard you and is acting accordingly. Now, all those who crossed the border improperly will not be sent home until they get a hearing. Critics of Obama are crying like babies. It will take YEARS and BILLIONS of dollars. Well, there you go. You done and got a criminal process started for a civil offense.
> 
> I guess Michael Mukasey had it right the first time when he denied the foreigners a taxpayer paid attorney because the offense is *civil*. When it remained a CIVIL matter, they either paid for their own attorney or got deported. Way to freaking go SARGE 7402.


And how many TENS of Billions of dollars not to mention the crime will it cost us to support these people for the rest of their lives if we let them stay?


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Have fun young man. And if you think I have a direct line to BHO, you're even more delusional that I thought you were.
> 
> And I guess you really need to take a good hard look at how the criminal justice systems work here in the USofA. At least here in Virginia regardless of if the offense is Criminal, ABC, Traffic, Fish and Game, or Animal Control if the Commonwealth Attorney is seeking Jail time as part of a conviction - even if it's suspended - the Judges all advise the accused that they have the right to an attorney and have them fill out a statement of worth to see if they qualify for a court appointed one. Even if they elect not to hire an attorney and elect to represent themselves, they have to sign a waiver of their right to counsel.
> 
> Now I'm sorry that you still think an immigration violation that has the potential of getting the accused jail time is in your opinion a Civil Offense. Sorry Jimmy it's just not so. And no one in the Executive Branch can tell you otherwise.
> 
> Now what they can do - and it's usually within their authority - is to waive jail time as part of any sentence that may be handed down. If no jail time is involved then the right to a court appointed attorney goes away.
> 
> take care little fella.


Your response is so much pious cant so as to be devoid of any meaning. WTF is with claiming I said you have a direct line to your buddy? I guess when you're getting spanked, it's time to throw B.S. on the wall and see what sticks. None of your shit is going anywhere. Oh, BTW, with that cheesy attack, where do you suppose PaulS is?

Sit back, SARGE. Light up a smoke. Read this carefully. You have misrepresented EVERY word of what I've said... and you continue to do so repeatedly. Then again, you like to hobnob with a segment of society (i.e. cops) that have little respect for the truth. But, here is the truth:

There is no such "_crime_" as illegal immigration. NOBODY ever goes to jail over such a nonexistent "_crime._" The *ONLY* statute that deals with improper entry states that the penalty is a maximum of $250 CIVIL FINE. In Title 8 (Civil law governing immigration) the specific statute that deals with improper entry, it contains many references to Title 18. *WHY* does Title 8 (EIGHT) reference Title 18 (EIGHTEEN?)

The reason is that Title 8 is CIVIL LAW and, as such, cannot impose criminal penalties. SO, the following "_crimes_" are contained in Title 8 and the law says that these infractions will result in a criminal penalty under Title 18 (EIGHTEEN.)

1) Trying to elude authorities

2) Lying to Authorities

3) Using false identification documents

4) Marriage fraud

5) Repeated civil violations

*NOBODY HAS EVER GONE TO PRISON FOR ENTERING THE COUNTRY IMPROPERLY*. Such a law does not exist, sir. The people in handcuffs, on their way to serve time *may have* entered the U.S. improperly, but the CRIMES were one or more from the list above which are covered in Title 18 (EIGHTEEN.) Mere entry is a civil offense with a maximum $250 fine.


----------



## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> And how many TENS of Billions of dollars not to mention the crime will it cost us to support these people for the rest of their lives if we let them stay?


WHY are you directing this at me? IF improper entry and unaccompanied minors were being treated as CIVIL LAW, things like Due Process would not apply and deportation would be a procedural issue, not one where we had to go through a long, drawn out criminal process.

Obama got you checkmated on this one, Notsoyoung. Take the spanking, wake your ass up, and figure out WHY you have hitched your wagon to a dead horse.

IF you and your ilk hadn't spent so much time trying to convince everyone this is a "_criminal_" issue, it would be treated as a mere civil process... go in front of a civil officer and if the foreigner don't have the money for a lawyer to throw up roadblocks, you deport the people. Works for me.


----------



## SARGE7402

Resister you are really something else. You claim my buddy listened to me (BHO) and then when I ask what makes you think I have a direct line to him you turn the statement around to imply I said you have a direct line. Lord you can't even keep your stories straight.

But to the point of my post. Crimes are listed in many portions of different statutes. If they carry jail time then ergo it's a crime even if the prosecutor elects not to seek jail time. Back many posts ago I posted the actual statute - not your paraphrasing of it - and it's quite clear that there is a criminal section - fine and jail time and a civil penalty - only a fine.

Just cause Jimmy stomps his feet and throws a tantrum can't change what the law actually says.

got a problem with the law take it up with congress. Don't know how to read the law take it up with those who allegedly taught you the law.


----------



## pharmer14

inceptor said:


> Don't feel bad. I asked a similar question and he ignored me too. At least I'm in good company.
> 
> Imagine there's no countries
> It isn't hard to do
> Nothing to kill or die for
> And no religion too
> Imagine all the people
> Living life in peace ....... John Lennon
> 
> I think Lennon was and the resister is a one world govt supporter.


To be fair, look up Revolution... I think even Lennon had a "come to common sense" moment.


----------



## The Resister

Slippy said:


> Resister,
> 
> What can this great Nation do to stop the improper border crossings?
> 
> Your friend,
> 
> Slippy


Slippy,

"_Our_" side, presuming that those who read this are constitutionalists (though few are) would have to get their excrement together and figure out WHEN, in modern times, this issue became the problem it is today.

Since 1986, the United States has granted seven opportunities for foreigners to become instant citizens via so - called "_amnesties_." According to the anti - immigrant website, NumbersUSA, those seven so - called "_amnesties_" resulted in 6 million new citizens. If you check NumbersUSA's site, roughly *FOUR* of the 6 million new citizens were given the green light by either Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush. Obviously, the Republicans did not have the answer. Everybody here knows where the sentiment of the Democrats lie. Be that as it may, Republicans get 75 percent of the blame IF you accept my critics explanations for the debacle... they put the Executive Dept. in full charge of immigration laws.

Unless and until "_our_" side is willing to shed their prejudices and get rid of strategies that have failed them for over a decade, they won't consider the obvious solutions, but for shits and giggles, here is an *EXAMPLE*. Bear in mind, this is only an *EXAMPLE*. It's *one of about twelve parts of the solution... so this is 1/ 12th of the solution*:

We go back to 2002. Militias and related type organizations were manning PRIVATE land on the border. In 2003 some Salvadorans tried to cross over into the U.S. via private land. This used to be called trespassing. Anyway, the group Ranch Rescue stopped these trespassers and an altercation ensued.

In the legal actions that followed, the courts ruled that Ranch Rescued violated the "_civil rights_" (sic) of the Salvadorans. Ranch Rescue members were sent to jail and the ranch owner lost his place to the Salvadorans in a civil suit:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/case-docket/leiva-v-ranch-rescue

That event began the snowball effect that has eventually brought us here today. Neither the ranch owner NOR the members of Ranch Rescue wanted to appeal the case and fight, so silence became consent. It was the anti - immigrant side that allowed the "_civil rights_" of foreign trespassers to trump the property rights of Americans.

So, the militia cannot help private property owners secure their property. We want to use the government to do that. I contend that if the American people had the unfettered Right to defend their property from trespassers, we would have more resources to spend on that section of the border that ought to be under the control of the government to protect (i.e. public lands.) How many people, Slippy, would want to ignore a NO TRESPASSING sign if the consequences meant you might get the shit shot out of you?

Instead, we have these ridiculous and idiotic arguments that we're dealing with "_criminal law_" and these same retards with their ill thought out anti - immigrant websites want the *military* to enforce what the anti - immigrants claim is a criminal enterprise... AND they complain about Martial Law in the process. You don't use the military to enforce domestic criminal laws. What we're talking about is not a crime. Trespassing on private property is a crime, but "_our_" side doesn't think we have a responsibility nor the Right to defend our own property lines. We want to leave that to the LEO community, but the people that *interpret and enforce* immigration law have ruled, improper entry is not a crime. And nobody with fifth grade or above reading skills could honestly disagree with the letter of the law.

Now, aside from that as a start, a few other things would have to be addressed... and these are just a *FEW EXAMPLES*:

1) We have to get the federal government out of the welfare business; it's better handled by the states

2) We have to get the federal government out of the education business and proclaim that NOBODY has a "Right" to a free public education

3) We have to have a Guest Worker program that does NOT have an automatic path to citizenship

4) You could legalize drugs and offer Mexico economic incentives to help patrol the border so that the governments get taxes from pot. Hmmm... Drug cartels get the profit or the government gets taxes AND Mexico is backed up by the mightiest police forces in the world? I know who I'd hedge my bets on.

Again, these are only mere examples... the start.


----------



## pharmer14

The Resister said:


> I haven't even begun to put you in your place. It was just on the radio that Obama heard you and is acting accordingly. Now, all those who crossed the border improperly will not be sent home until they get a hearing. Critics of Obama are crying like babies. It will take YEARS and BILLIONS of dollars. Well, there you go. You done and got a criminal process started for a civil offense.
> 
> I guess Michael Mukasey had it right the first time when he denied the foreigners a taxpayer paid attorney because the offense is *civil*. When it remained a CIVIL matter, they either paid for their own attorney or got deported. Way to freaking go SARGE 7402.


It's well documented that we're putting people on planes and buses anyways. "What difference does it make" if those planes are headed back to Guatemala or to New York City???

I mean in principle, I could agree to a view point that immigration should be handled by the states. I think if you put Texas in charge of the southern border, we'd be in much better shape as they would drastically stop the flow of undocumented workers above what the feds catch. Additionally, if each of the 50 states had different levels of openness to illegal immigrants, they would spare the rest of us from the consequences of a massive federal bill.


----------



## The Resister

pharmer14 said:


> It's well documented that we're putting people on planes and buses anyways. "What difference does it make" if those planes are headed back to Guatemala or to New York City???
> 
> I mean in principle, I could agree to a view point that immigration should be handled by the states. I think if you put Texas in charge of the southern border, we'd be in much better shape as they would drastically stop the flow of undocumented workers above what the feds catch. Additionally, if each of the 50 states had different levels of openness to illegal immigrants, they would spare the rest of us from the consequences of a massive federal bill.


We were deporting people; however, the community organizer has decided that every individual here without papers should now be brought to a hearing. It's back to that notion as expressed by Eric Holder (the same notion SARGE 7402 and his Cheering Section hold to) that we are dealing with a criminal enterprise and now we have to go through the motions with Due Process... taxpayer paid attorneys, holding people for hearing dates, etc., etc.

Of course, we can't hold all those people, so ultimately the feds won't enforce the laws because it will be cost prohibitive. We are not dealing with criminal law. Why can't the Tea Party and people like SARGE 7402 understand the English language?


----------



## pharmer14

The Resister said:


> We are not dealing with criminal law. Why can't the Tea Party and people like SARGE 7402 understand the English language?


How is a deportation a criminal punishment?

I don't think anyone is saying it's a criminal offense... What we're saying is that cars aren't allowed on airport runways.

If something doesn't belong, remove it.


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Resister you are really something else. You claim my buddy listened to me (BHO) and then when I ask what makes you think I have a direct line to him you turn the statement around to imply I said you have a direct line. Lord you can't even keep your stories straight.
> 
> But to the point of my post. Crimes are listed in many portions of different statutes. If they carry jail time then ergo it's a crime even if the prosecutor elects not to seek jail time. Back many posts ago I posted the actual statute - not your paraphrasing of it - and it's quite clear that there is a criminal section - fine and jail time and a civil penalty - only a fine.
> 
> Just cause Jimmy stomps his feet and throws a tantrum can't change what the law actually says.
> 
> got a problem with the law take it up with congress. Don't know how to read the law take it up with those who allegedly taught you the law.


You know, I agree with you in part. If YOU have a problem with the law, take it up with Congress. There is no crime called "illegal immigration" for the reasons cited in over half a dozen posts on this thread alone. "SARGE7402" is still stuck with the same problems:

1) IF the word improper meant illegal, why did Congress attempt to change the wording of that immigration statute?

2) IF Title 8 could be construed to be "criminal law" then why does that law reference Title 18 for the crimes listed?

Read between the lines. "SARGE7402" pokes fun at those who expose ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. Then he acts as if he's stuck on stupid with respect to the differences between civil law and criminal law... then, he advocates a military solution to what he proclaims is a criminal enterprise. Add it all up.

"SARGE7402" is letting you know what he is and what he really stands for.


----------



## The Resister

pharmer14 said:


> How is a deportation a criminal punishment?
> 
> I don't think anyone is saying it's a criminal offense... What we're saying is that cars aren't allowed on airport runways.
> 
> If something doesn't belong, remove it.


Did you read this thread? SARGE7402 and Notsoyoung have made their entire case on whether we are talking criminal law or civil law.


----------



## SARGE7402

Resister is hung up on these Aliens being here illegally. The statute does have two sections. One for handling the case as a civil issue - no jail time a simple review of the circumstances and then if they meet one of the criteria for not being deported the go on one course. Those that don't get on the bus back to the border.

What I've disagreed with Resister all along is that the statute has both a civil and a criminal (and yes Resister I can read the English language and I'm not a retard; nor do I want a police state and yes I have more than a fifth grade education) and if the detaining officer believes there is more to Jose's journey than just coming to America for a Better Life then Jose can be charged under the Criminal portion of the law.

Unfortunately folks like Resister like to point the blame at the folks in the Executive Office - as with President's Regan and Bush. What Resister fails to explain is that his tally of 7 Amnesites from that web site - well it doesn't paint that clear a picture. It doesn't actually make that claim in so many words. the other thing Resister forgets to explain is that only congress can pass the necessary legislation required to change immigration law. And only one statute dealt directly with Amnesty that was in 86 when congress was split. 

Resister: Just cause you say something doesn't make it so. 

I agree that all the illegal Aliens need to be sent back as soon as possible. 

The border fence needs to be built. Don't say it can't be built cause the soviets built a nice one and so did South Korea. Heck it might even provide a new line of work for you.

Those that are here need to be sent back - now. the process is in place.


----------



## PaulS

SARGE7402 said:


> Paul I don't mind, he's not going to change one bit. And besides I've been called a lot worse by much nicer and such folks than him.


Sarge,
you don't need me sticking up for you but Resister has complained of personal attacks in the past by others so I intend to point out that his MO includes personal attack regularly. I no longer argue with him - I would rather discuss topics with those intelligent enough to know that neither side has to have their mind changed but rather that each side should present as many points as they feel comfortable and in the end we have the ability to agree to disagree or more information than we had at the beginning and now have something to ponder.


----------



## SARGE7402

Read between the lines. "SARGE7402" pokes fun at those who expose ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. Then he acts as if he's stuck on stupid with respect to the differences between civil law and criminal law... then, he advocates a military solution to what he proclaims is a criminal enterprise. Add it all up. 

"SARGE7402" is letting you know what he is and what he really stands for. 

Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy: I don't poke fun at your that believe in the tin foil hat conspiracies. I think that they are pure hokem. I'm not stuck on stupid. I know the difference between criminal and civil. Read the statute jimmy it contains both. And I've never advocated a military solution to fixing the border - Unless you call turning the construction over to the Corps of Engineers to execute a military solution. 

And I've never claimed it's a criminal enterprise. I've also never called you a retard, nor said that you have less than a 5th Grade Education nor that English was your second language.

Resister your claims that these aliens that came here in a not legal manner are not here illegally really makes one scratch ones head.


----------



## Gunner's Mate

Obama and his croonies caused this problem by not enforcing current Immg laws and by defunding the border patrol. These Idiots Make The Weather and Then Stand Outside and Say Damn Its Raining


----------



## SARGE7402

PaulS said:


> Sarge,
> you don't need me sticking up for you but Resister has complained of personal attacks in the past by others so I intend to point out that his MO includes personal attack regularly. I no longer argue with him - I would rather discuss topics with those intelligent enough to know that neither side has to have their mind changed but rather that each side should present as many points as they feel comfortable and in the end we have the ability to agree to disagree or more information than we had at the beginning and now have something to ponder.


 Thanks big guy. Buy you a beer if your ever back this way


----------



## inceptor

pharmer14 said:


> To be fair, look up Revolution... I think even Lennon had a "come to common sense" moment.


Well, the lyrics sort of put them in the middle. It seems they wouldn't mind it as long as they didn't have to do anything.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Teddy Roosevelt once said _"A vote is like a rifle, wasted in the wrong hands"_

So if there are things we don't like in our countries, (such as immigration) isn't it the fault of the voters for putting incompetent politicians into power?


----------



## PaulS

SARGE7402 said:


> Thanks big guy. Buy you a beer if your ever back this way


I think I'll buy the first round. You deserve it more than I.


----------



## PaulS

Lucky Jim said:


> Teddy Roosevelt once said _"A vote is like a rifle, wasted in the wrong hands"_
> 
> So if there are things we don't like in our countries, (such as immigration) isn't it the fault of the voters for putting incompetent politicians into power?


That would be true if the politicians didn't say one thing and do another. It used to be that you could trust in a man's word... not so much today. My neighbors and I are like that - if we say something we stick to it - even if it's not convenient.

Most people in the US vote for the party in a popularity contest run by the polls. I choose to be informed and vote my conscience - sooner or later the rest of the population will come to their senses though I fear it will be much later.


----------



## Inor

inceptor said:


> Well, the lyrics sort of put them in the middle. It seems they wouldn't mind it as long as they didn't have to do anything.


I think John and Paul probably started out as decent guys. But they both married bat shit crazy women. I recall a commercial Linda McCartney did for PETA where she is lambasting anglers because the fish feel pain. WTF?!?! And Yoko's song: "Women are the ******* of the world"... HUH?!?! The Beatles would have been much better off if Linda McCartney and Yoko Ono were both shoved into a wood chipper.

Sarge: Listen to PaulS. He knows stuff - a lot of it.

PaulS: I owe you an apology. I meant to post a congratulations to you because I assume the ink finally dried on the adoption papers for your new grandkids. I actually keep a notebook in my briefcase to remind myself of what I need to do. I had written a note to myself to offer congratulations, then promptly did not look in my briefcase for the last two weeks I have taken off work. So congratulations and please accept my apologies for my tardiness in offering it.


----------



## pharmer14

The Resister said:


> Did you read this thread? SARGE7402 and Notsoyoung have made their entire case on whether we are talking criminal law or civil law.


I did read the thread. It's the very reason I asked the question. You made the point that crossing the border without papers is not a crime. Even if you believe that, you must admit that deportation is not a criminal punishment. So the punishment does indeed fit the infraction no?


----------



## pharmer14

SARGE7402 said:


> Resister your claims that these aliens that came here in a not legal manner are not here illegally really makes one scratch ones head.


Pretty clear to me that at the very least, they violated Mexican law when the crossed their southern border without papers and avoided the authorities down there...


----------



## pharmer14

Resister, you brought up several times in this thread that we'd spend too much money shipping these folks back. What's the tally for keeping them here? We're putting them up in facilities, feeding them, paying for their health care, and putting them on buses and planes to move them from Texas to other states. One of the long term concerns is that it could turn into a strain on our public assistance programs. 

I've personally seen folks come into my pharmacy with Honduran passports and Medicaid cards in the SAME HAND, so don't tell me it doesn't happen.

How can you believe it's more expensive to put them on a plane and fly them home than it is to take care of them as we are doing now?


----------



## PaulS

Inor said:


> I think John and Paul probably started out as decent guys. But they both married bat shit crazy women. I recall a commercial Linda McCartney did for PETA where she is lambasting anglers because the fish feel pain. WTF?!?! And Yoko's song: "Women are the ******* of the world"... HUH?!?! The Beatles would have been much better off if Linda McCartney and Yoko Ono were both shoved into a wood chipper.
> 
> Sarge: Listen to PaulS. He knows stuff - a lot of it.
> 
> PaulS: I owe you an apology. I meant to post a congratulations to you because I assume the ink finally dried on the adoption papers for your new grandkids. I actually keep a notebook in my briefcase to remind myself of what I need to do. I had written a note to myself to offer congratulations, then promptly did not look in my briefcase for the last two weeks I have taken off work. So congratulations and please accept my apologies for my tardiness in offering it.


Yes, the party ended up being two and a half days of fun. We tried to invite the judge too but he had to decline for reasons of propriety. We went fishing, shooting and ate and just welcomed the new additions into their "forever family". It was quite the ceremony and party. I couldn't post any photos - anonymity is still very important - so I just described it. They are two very special kids that we love as our own.

You owe me nothing my friend and thank you for your kind words. If I knew half as much as I felt I would be a lot smarter. I even have difficulty remembering that what I know and what I feel are two different things - but then the good people here help keep me in line.


----------



## RNprepper

Going back to the disease aspect - look up Chagas Disease. Pretty nasty. When these folks end up getting heart transplants, guess who is going to pay for it! Every one of these people should be screened - especially the women and children. It is transmitted by a parasite carried by kissing bugs, but also congenitally before birth. Very treatable in young children if caught early, but totally devastating if left untreated. There also remains the question of whether the central American kissing bugs could become established here. (Our local kissing bugs carry the parasite, but do not infect from their bites due to a difference in feeding habits. Basically they get their blood meal and then fly away. The Mexican and Central American varieties poop while they are feeding and the bug poop transmits the parasite into the wound.) But if some of those non native bugs get established here, it will be a public health nightmare. This is a serious situation.


----------



## SAR-1L

I know it is terribly inhumane, but why argue over the cost of deportation or keeping them here when you can just execute.
Bullets are a lot cheaper than any meal, or flight, plus if you hear that everyone that tries to get in is shot/executed would you
maybe think twice about traveling thousands of miles to die anyways?

I know it will be morally disagree-able with many of you, but at the end of the day I would do whatever to keep the border secure
and my neighbors safe, and sometimes the only way to solve an extreme problem is with an extreme solution.


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Resister is hung up on these Aliens being here illegally. The statute does have two sections. One for handling the case as a civil issue - no jail time a simple review of the circumstances and then if they meet one of the criteria for not being deported the go on one course. Those that don't get on the bus back to the border.
> 
> What I've disagreed with Resister all along is that the statute has both a civil and a criminal (and yes Resister I can read the English language and I'm not a retard; nor do I want a police state and yes I have more than a fifth grade education) and if the detaining officer believes there is more to Jose's journey than just coming to America for a Better Life then Jose can be charged under the Criminal portion of the law.
> 
> Unfortunately folks like Resister like to point the blame at the folks in the Executive Office - as with President's Regan and Bush. What Resister fails to explain is that his tally of 7 Amnesites from that web site - well it doesn't paint that clear a picture. It doesn't actually make that claim in so many words. the other thing Resister forgets to explain is that only congress can pass the necessary legislation required to change immigration law. And only one statute dealt directly with Amnesty that was in 86 when congress was split.
> 
> Resister: Just cause you say something doesn't make it so.
> 
> I agree that all the illegal Aliens need to be sent back as soon as possible.
> 
> The border fence needs to be built. Don't say it can't be built cause the soviets built a nice one and so did South Korea. Heck it might even provide a new line of work for you.
> 
> Those that are here need to be sent back - now. the process is in place.


SARGE,

You tell more lies than a liberal politician on acid. You twist the truth and just go from post to post making shit up about me. Still, you cannot hide the truth.

I think that most people here can access the information directly AND read my posts to see what was said and not said. For example, you claimed that *ONLY* the Executive department had jurisdiction over immigration. NOW you agree with me as if I never said that Congress determines what the legal language is or, in this case, is not.

Title 8 is a CIVIL STATUTE and it imposes NO CRIMINAL PENALTIES. What Title 8 does is to reference TITLE 18 when a crime is mentioned. It says that even if a person is found in violation of the civil statute, it is separate and apart from the crimes also listed, which a person can be tried for under TITLE 18. You can't get over the fact that TITLE 18 does not have any "crime" of illegal immigration.

Great, Congress passed the laws, but Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush signed off on them. Furthermore, of the 6 million NumbersUSA claims got instant citizenship, 2.7 million of those were done by Reagan alone. So, now you're siding with Clinton because????? If Congress was split in '86, common sense would tell you that if Reagan had not signed off, Congress could not overcome his veto. Or did you think the people on this board were too stupid to figure that one out?

I agree with you that just because I say something is so don't make it so. Your buddy also said that nobody else ever said that Title 8 was never interpreted the way I told him it was. Improper Entry is not a civil offense and not a crime because I said so; it's not a crime because those who write, interpret and enforce the laws say so. And that will never change just because you say so or you get several misguided posters on this board to agree with you.

There is no such thing as an "illegal" alien and my interest in that terminology don't have shit to do with foreigners... you know that.

The only fence that ought to be built is one around you, sir.


----------



## The Resister

SAR-1L said:


> I know it is terribly inhumane, but why argue over the cost of deportation or keeping them here when you can just execute.
> Bullets are a lot cheaper than any meal, or flight, plus if you hear that everyone that tries to get in is shot/executed would you
> maybe think twice about traveling thousands of miles to die anyways?
> 
> I know it will be morally disagree-able with many of you, but at the end of the day I would do whatever to keep the border secure
> and my neighbors safe, and sometimes the only way to solve an extreme problem is with an extreme solution.


Compromise - figure out that the majority here is wrong. The solution might be to have a Declaration of War against Mexico. A two week incursion into their country and a few of the people in their power structure getting taken out would be enough to get Mexico interested in keeping people from crossing into the U.S.

You'll still have to allow a Guest Worker program so as to force the liberals into voting for the Declaration of War.


----------



## The Resister

pharmer14 said:


> Resister, you brought up several times in this thread that we'd spend too much money shipping these folks back. What's the tally for keeping them here? We're putting them up in facilities, feeding them, paying for their health care, and putting them on buses and planes to move them from Texas to other states. One of the long term concerns is that it could turn into a strain on our public assistance programs.
> 
> I've personally seen folks come into my pharmacy with Honduran passports and Medicaid cards in the SAME HAND, so don't tell me it doesn't happen.
> 
> How can you believe it's more expensive to put them on a plane and fly them home than it is to take care of them as we are doing now?


I think you need to spend some time rereading my posts. "I" have never stated it costs too much to ship people home. I said it costs too much to apply a criminal penalty to a civil action and get caught up in Due Process over a maximum civil fine of $250. It's a TIME factor there, bud, not one about costs.

The issue becomes worse as TIME progresses. The longer this goes without resolution, the less likely it is you will win. Reread my posts, *NOT* what the Cheering Section claims I said.


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## The Resister

pharmer14 said:


> I did read the thread. It's the very reason I asked the question. You made the point that crossing the border without papers is not a crime. Even if you believe that, you must admit that deportation is not a criminal punishment. So the punishment does indeed fit the infraction no?


NO. The reason is you have a freaking WELCOME sign to come to America, but no credible Guest Worker program... only forced citizenship. The system does not allow an equal opportunity for entrepreneurs and business to compete with large corporations. It will ultimately be ruled as a violation of the 14th Amendment. That is why I advocate a Guest Worker program with NO AUTOMATIC PATH TO CITIZENSHIP.


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## Notsoyoung

We have green cards for guest workers. I guess it's not "credible" because you have to have a job to get one and they do a background check on you to make sure that you aren't a criminal.


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## Slippy

I don't think the majority of the scumbags crossing our Southern Border want to come here to work...unless selling drugs is considered "work". Or maybe they consider getting a "paycheck" from Uncle Sam to be "work" while they sell drugs.


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## Notsoyoung

There may be a silver lining to this who disaster. People are becoming fed up with what is taking place and are tired of it. Enough with the illegal aliens invading our country. So what if there are 11 million of them. It will be allot cheaper deporting them then it would be supporting them for the rest of their lives. If it takes 10 years to do then we had better get started.


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## Slippy

Notsoyoung said:


> There may be a silver lining to this who disaster. People are becoming fed up with what is taking place and are tired of it. Enough with the illegal aliens invading our country. So what if there are 11 million of them. It will be allot cheaper deporting them then it would be supporting them for the rest of their lives. If it takes 10 years to do then we had better get started.


I second this!


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## 2Tim215

It's funny. My wife's a registered ICU nurse with oncology and dialysis experience. I am self employed. We pay taxes and are law abiding (for the most part:lol yet for us to immigrate to the States is so costly and difficult that it's basically impossible. Yet they welcome uneducated laborers with open arms. Maybe we should move to Mexico and cross from there:lol:


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## Slippy

2Tim215 said:


> It's funny. My wife's a registered ICU nurse with oncology and dialysis experience. I am self employed. We pay taxes and are law abiding (for the most part:lol yet for us to immigrate to the States is so costly and difficult that it's basically impossible. Yet they welcome uneducated laborers with open arms. Maybe we should move to Mexico and cross from there:lol:


We The People do not welcome uneducated freebie suckers with open arms, I can assure you of that. However, I will admit that our government will say one thing and do another.


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## Piratesailor

Obama now want $2,000,000,000 to fix the crisis he started. Not one f'ing dime until he seals the border and sends them back. And until he starts to actually uphold the laws per his oath that he's violated time and again. Tipping point? Maybe. Hopefully. Impeach the bastard and his DOJ lackey. 

Yes, I'm pissed. Nixon is an angel companies to this guy.


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## Notsoyoung

Was watching a video of the protesters at Murrieta, Ca who are trying to stop the buses bringing them into their city. I noticed that many of the pro ILLEGAL alien protesters were carrying Mexican flags. Does that tell people something?


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## keith9365

It's going to take "the people" standing up. Politicians don't really care. All they care about is media popularity and how they can maintain their place at the trough.


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## Piratesailor

Notsoyoung said:


> Was watching a video of the protesters at Murrieta, Ca who are trying to stop the buses bringing them into their city. I noticed that many of the pro ILLEGAL alien protesters were carrying Mexican flags. Does that tell people something?


And the la raza thugs are there with covered faces like a jihadist. If they are so proud why do they cover their face? Unless they are criminals or going to do something criminal.. Or are illegal themselves.

I wish American citizens weren't mostly apathetic and would rise up against this illegal invasion. The problems is that the citizens not near the boarder don't think this affects them. Wrong. They'll find out sooner or later. We need to peacefully protest en mass like the left does.

Hey NSA, CIA, FBI... Catch all that?


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## Notsoyoung

Wait until people living in the middle of the country start having their relatives coming down with TB that is resistant to antibiotics or catch scabies from these illegal aliens. Then you will start hearing an uproar to stop these illegal aliens from coming into the country. One of the main purposes of Ellis Island was to give legal emigrants a physical to make sure that they weren't bringing diseases into the country. Now they are not only letting them across the border, they are also shipping them around the country. 

The Feds have been shipping allot of these people to military bases. Somehow I doubt if they are setting up tents in the middle of the base and putting the illegal aliens in them. That would be just toooooo cruel. Wanna bet that our military members are being moved out of their quarters and now find themselves in tents? After all, they are in the military and tents are more then good enough for them. I for one am glad that I retired from the Army years ago.


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## Lucky Jim

SAR-1L said:


> ..why argue over the cost of deportation or keeping them here when you can just execute.
> Bullets are a lot cheaper than any meal, or flight, plus if you hear that everyone that tries to get in is shot/executed would you
> maybe think twice about traveling thousands of miles to die anyways?
> I know it will be morally disagree-able with many of you, but at the end of the day I would do whatever to keep the border secure
> and my neighbors safe, and sometimes the only way to solve an extreme problem is with an extreme solution.


Right, beats me why the US Govt doesn't build a triple-line electric fence along the mex border with landmines between each line and watchtowers at every mile with snipers equipped with night-vision rifles.
Coastguard vessels could patrol the seas at each end of the fence in case the illegal invaders try to outflank the fence by boat.

Here in England we've got the 21-mile wide English Channel to protect us from illegal foreign invaders, but they still try to get across by boat like this dumb schmuck who set sail without a rudder..


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## Notsoyoung

Lucky Jim said:


> Right, beats me why the US Govt doesn't build a triple-line electric fence along the mex border with landmines between each line and watchtowers at every mile with snipers equipped with night-vision rifles.
> Coastguard vessels could patrol the seas at each end of the fence in case the illegal invaders try to outflank the fence by boat.
> 
> Here in England we've got the 21-mile wide English Channel to protect us from illegal foreign invaders, but they still try to get across by boat like this dumb schmuck who set sail without a rudder..


That took 3 weeks to build? Not only is he not very smart, but he doesn't seem to have a strong work ethic either.


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## omegabrock

pharmer14 said:


> Additionally, if each of the 50 states had different levels of openness to illegal immigrants, they would spare the rest of us from the consequences of a massive federal bill.


so you're saying that if california allowed any immigrant to come as they pleased it would have no effect on a federal level because the individual state allowed it? and then the individual state gives them federal citizenship and allows them to come and go as they please and take advantage of any federal subsidy they want.


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## SARGE7402

Funny thing, you'd think that DHS (Border Patrol and ICE) would know what or who an Illegal Alien is wouldn't you.

http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_09-15_Jan09.pdf


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## The Resister

2Tim215 said:


> It's funny. My wife's a registered ICU nurse with oncology and dialysis experience. I am self employed. We pay taxes and are law abiding (for the most part:lol yet for us to immigrate to the States is so costly and difficult that it's basically impossible. Yet they welcome uneducated laborers with open arms. Maybe we should move to Mexico and cross from there:lol:


I may not understand what you're saying, but in my experience it has become virtually impossible for anyone to get papers into the United States.

As you can see from the posters, they are hung up on this silly notion that one must become a citizen in order to do business in the United States. THAT is the whole reason they are losing, have always lost and always will be on the losing end until they wake up one morning and America will be ruled by people with foreign accents. They don't get it.

When I started working in immigration law, I wondered that IF our objection were that people did not come here legally, then why in the Hell did the people coming from Mexico (and south of there) not just go get the right paperwork. A few months into the job and it became apparent:

The only genuine way into America is to become a citizen. That is wholly unconstitutional, immoral and will never stand in the United States - not in my lifetime, anyway. The "_cure-all_" is for people to become citizens - unless they are seasonal workers. Being a seasonal worker requires the employer to put in for the paperwork many months in advance. Conversely, rich people have an almost instant "_in_" when wanting to do business here. If we are ever going to resolve the issue it will be to create a Guest Worker program with no automatic path to citizenship. Adding insult to injury, the reasons and the opportunities that most of those from south of the border are chasing simply are not covered in that "Green Card" scenario.

Rather than to look for workable solutions, _"our_" side has lowered themselves to lying to each other, having petty pissing matches over the issue and backing people who have a history of National Socialism and White Supremacy. The Tea Party and related organizations (to whom many of the posters here rely on for their information) have concocted the worse possible "_solutions_" (if you can call them that) and they have gone up in flames. There was a poll reported on WSB radio in Atlanta regarding the Tea Party today that stated the Tea Party has lost favor with the American people.

I keep saying it's time for a serious discussion, but the reality is, those who don't want the truth to come out will continue to oppress and censor those who tell you the facts.


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## Slippy

Hey, I've got an idea :idea:
What if we get ALL the Open Carry Rifle Guys to protest at the border?


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## Notsoyoung

SARGE7402 said:


> Funny thing, you'd think that DHS (Border Patrol and ICE) would know what or who an Illegal Alien is wouldn't you.
> 
> http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_09-15_Jan09.pdf


Maybe they just don't understand those folks aren't really illegals.


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> I may not understand what you're saying, but in my experience it has become virtually impossible for anyone to get papers into the United States.
> 
> As you can see from the posters, they are hung up on this silly notion that one must become a citizen in order to do business in the United States. THAT is the whole reason they are losing, have always lost and always will be on the losing end until they wake up one morning and America will be ruled by people with foreign accents. They don't get it.
> 
> When I started working in immigration law, I wondered that IF our objection were that people did not come here legally, then why in the Hell did the people coming from Mexico (and south of there) not just go get the right paperwork. A few months into the job and it became apparent:
> 
> The only genuine way into America is to become a citizen. That is wholly unconstitutional, immoral and will never stand in the United States - not in my lifetime, anyway. The "_cure-all_" is for people to become citizens - unless they are seasonal workers. Being a seasonal worker requires the employer to put in for the paperwork many months in advance. Conversely, rich people have an almost instant "_in_" when wanting to do business here. If we are ever going to resolve the issue it will be to create a Guest Worker program with no automatic path to citizenship. Adding insult to injury, the reasons and the opportunities that most of those from south of the border are chasing simply are not covered in that "Green Card" scenario.
> 
> Rather than to look for workable solutions, _"our_" side has lowered themselves to lying to each other, having petty pissing matches over the issue and backing people who have a history of National Socialism and White Supremacy. The Tea Party and related organizations (to whom many of the posters here rely on for their information) have concocted the worse possible "_solutions_" (if you can call them that) and they have gone up in flames. There was a poll reported on WSB radio in Atlanta regarding the Tea Party today that stated the Tea Party has lost favor with the American people.
> 
> I keep saying it's time for a serious discussion, but the reality is, those who don't want the truth to come out will continue to oppress and censor those who tell you the facts.


What a load of bull. Never heard of work visas? Watch Varney and Company on Fox business. He's been here for decades and is not a citizen. State Farm has thousands of Indians working for them who are here on work visas, some who have been here for decades. My wife has been working with a woman for 5 years who is here on a work visa. The whole claim that the only way you can get into the U.S. is if you want to be a citizen is bull.


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## SARGE7402

Notsoyoung said:


> Maybe they just don't understand those folks aren't really illegals.


Maybe we ought to tell them about Resister's facts and watch them change their tune


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## SARGE7402

Funny in 1996 I think Congress made it pretty clear that they were dealing with Illegal Immigration :http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ208/pdf/PLAW-104publ208.pdf

Got to scroll down to Division C. Perhaps we ought to send them the Resister Memo


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## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> What a load of bull. Never heard of work visas? Watch Varney and Company on Fox business. He's been here for decades and is not a citizen. State Farm has thousands of Indians working for them who are here on work visas, some who have been here for decades. My wife has been working with a woman for 5 years who is here on a work visa. The whole claim that the only way you can get into the U.S. is if you want to be a citizen is bull.


I guess in all your zeal to put me down, you forgot to find out what the cap is on these magnificent Visas, didn't you?


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## SARGE7402

The Resister said:


> I guess in all your zeal to put me down, you forgot to find out what the cap is on these magnificent Visas, didn't you?


Sure there is a cap, but some folks are not included in the cap - like spouses of US Citizens. Sometimes the marriage has to take place overseas before a visa will be issued, but I know of four and one on a work visa all tied to the same extended family group.

Course on a work visa you have to have a skill that's in short supply. Not ditch digger or tomato picker.


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## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Funny in 1996 I think Congress made it pretty clear that they were dealing with Illegal Immigration :http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ208/pdf/PLAW-104publ208.pdf
> 
> Got to scroll down to Division C. Perhaps we ought to send them the Resister Memo


It might not be a bad idea to send them my (?) memo if you are honestly relying on that as proof that a statute exists criminalizing immigration. That is no more proof than your buddies labeling me a domestic terrorist. Oh yeah, that was all in print too, but it lacked a statute to back it up. They lost and if you took that to court as some kind of proof of your position, you would get laughed out of court.

SARGE, you need to grow the Hell up. You don't have a single, solitary statute to back you up; you don't have a court ruling; you don't have the word of a single, solitary person in a position of authority to back up your position. I'll listed ALL of those categories. You pretend like I'm on the side of far left while you can't get enough of that ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT crap and spew it here for those too blind to dissect your posts.

IF you still contend that immigration is criminal law; if you persist in claiming that some law exists, you should post it. I've given you the ruling by the *HIGHEST IMMIGRATION OFFICIAL IN THE U.S*. His word is binding precedent unless the Supreme Court over-rules it or Congress passes a bill to change it. BTW, Congress tried and the bill failed.

You cannot escape the facts, SARGE. You've been on the losing side for over a decade. And you want to force the military to protect you from what you call domestic criminal law? You claim to be a cop? Are you ****ing joking me? The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the police from enforcing domestic criminal law. Immigration is not a criminal issue. You need to climb off my ass and do some serious research.


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## SARGE7402

Hold on there. I'm not the one that needs to get a grip. I guess that you didn't look at the DHS report.

And with Regards to Posse Comitatus it's not the Police it's the US Military. Or would you like me to find you a copy of the Act so you can read it.

Was to put an end to the abuses from Reconstruction. Guess you may not have heard that in you high school or college in Georgia.

They pounded that into us when we were prepping for riot duty for the 72 democratic convention.

Have a nice day. When you get your s - - - together come back for anothe go


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## Lucky Jim

The Resister said:


> ..I keep saying it's time for a serious discussion, but the reality is, those who don't want the truth to come out will continue to oppress and censor those who tell you the facts.


How can we find out what the truth about immigration is?
For example Britain is flooded with immigrants pouring in from eastern europe and the mideast etc, here's todays front page of one of our big rightwing dailies saying mass immigration is BAD-










Yet the lefty Brit papers say mass immigration is GOOD for the country, so what are we to believe?

Same with America, the bottom line is- are Mexican (and other) immigrants doing America good or harm? Anybody know?


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## Denton

You know, we can keep this crap up all day. What might should be considered is what is happening, and why.

It doesn't matter what the law is or is not; we have entered squarely into a lawless government on all fronts. 

The only thing this is about is flooding this country with people who are not of our culture, who are, without abate, bringing in disease, bringing in more gang members, and bringing in more people who are not only lacking in understanding with what the founding fathers intended, but also despise it. Think Terrorists. 

Through this invasion, another problem is created so that those who hate each of us can provide a "solution." Within the masses coming are those who might create the next "crisis" that require more of our rights be stolen. With further dilution of our nation, we come that much closer to the erasure of our borders; thus ending America and creating North America - without the constitution.

For all the reasons any nation has the right to control or restrict immigration, our government is allowing and supporting this invasion. This isn't by accident, any more than Obama was tapped to be the president for this.


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## SARGE7402

Short of Impeachment - which is a non starter due to democratic control of the senate, I guess that the Speaker's proposed law suit is the only alternative to forcing this government t0 obey the law.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> You know, we can keep this crap up all day. What might should be considered is what is happening, and why.
> 
> It doesn't matter what the law is or is not; we have entered squarely into a lawless government on all fronts.
> 
> The only thing this is about is flooding this country with people who are not of our culture, who are, without abate, bringing in disease, bringing in more gang members, and bringing in more people who are not only lacking in understanding with what the founding fathers intended, but also despise it. Think Terrorists.
> 
> Through this invasion, another problem is created so that those who hate each of us can provide a "solution." Within the masses coming are those who might create the next "crisis" that require more of our rights be stolen. With further dilution of our nation, we come that much closer to the erasure of our borders; thus ending America and creating North America - without the constitution.
> 
> For all the reasons any nation has the right to control or restrict immigration, our government is allowing and supporting this invasion. This isn't by accident, any more than Obama was tapped to be the president for this.


At least you're getting closer to the truth than the self appointed guru, "SARGE." Yes, the current situation was one that done by *creation*. It is not a crime nor is it an invasion as the *intent* of the overwhelming majority of those coming here is not to commit a crime NOR are the people coming here to "_invade_" a country. An invasion, according to Blacks Law Dictionary is "_The incursion of an army for conquest or plunder_."

What we have are peasants being driven out and encouraged by their governments to enter the United States and take advantage of the benevolent Americans. It's hardly an "_invasion_" upon which we can punish the people in general for.

At the other end of the equation, you have employers willing to hire the foreigner. You have landlords willing to rent to them. Big business sells to the foreigner and even targets that demographic. Since those concerns are in the majority, you and I will not see that day the xenophobes dream of... you know where we deport the people en mass. That was tried before.

We played that song back in the 1950s. In 1953 an idea was hatched to deport all Mexican Nationals who did not have papers. In 1954 we began the process and within five years of the idea's birth, our unemployment rate *doubled*! It's not as cut and dried as many simplisticists would have you believe. We, as a nation, have a right to regulate immigration, but that's not what we're doing. We are using an idea that was developed by liberal Democrats and intentionally designed to implode.

Today, the Tea Party and people that congregate around the likes of SARGE7402 really believe they are going to rid America of the Hispanics. It's reminiscent of the Ku Klux Klan and their efforts to ship all the blacks back to Africa. It sounds great on paper, but it isn't going to happen. We simply need to get our heads out of the sand and realize that all people... even SARGE7402 are doing things that encourage people from foreign countries to come here.

Had we rejected all forms of socialism: welfare, government provided educations, socialized medicine, etc. we would be way ahead of the game. IF we had a credible Guest Worker program we would be ahead of the game. Instead, we tax the living Hell out of our own citizenry so that if one does not want to work, they don't have to. If company X will pay a person $8 an hour, but you can make a better living off welfare, then why work? There are many, many Americans that subscribe to that train of thought.

The real key is getting those American people off their asses and back into the labor market. Obamacare has put many people on the streets because it's cheaper for employers to get foreign labor rather than to pay for dental insurance, medical insurance, unemployment insurance, etc. The anti - immigrants bitch about foreigners stealing jobs when the jobs belong to the employer, NOT the job seekers. So, if you want a job, you need to make it economically viable for the employer to hire you. That is accomplished by reducing the size, power and scope of government. The key is to take the burden off of job creators, give them a choice of who to hire and give the employer tax incentives that make hiring Americans more profitable.


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> I guess in all your zeal to put me down, you forgot to find out what the cap is on these magnificent Visas, didn't you?


No, I know that there is a cap on how many they allow in a year, but since the cap is hundreds of thousands a year it can hardly be called "virtually impossible" can it?


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> At least you're getting closer to the truth than the self appointed guru, "SARGE." Yes, the current situation was one that done by *creation*. It is not a crime nor is it an invasion as the *intent* of the overwhelming majority of those coming here is not to commit a crime NOR are the people coming here to "_invade_" a country. An invasion, according to Blacks Law Dictionary is "_The incursion of an army for conquest or plunder_."
> 
> What we have are peasants being driven out and encouraged by their governments to enter the United States and take advantage of the benevolent Americans. It's hardly an "_invasion_" upon which we can punish the people in general for.
> 
> At the other end of the equation, you have employers willing to hire the foreigner. You have landlords willing to rent to them. Big business sells to the foreigner and even targets that demographic. Since those concerns are in the majority, you and I will not see that day the xenophobes dream of... you know where we deport the people en mass. That was tried before.
> 
> We played that song back in the 1950s. In 1953 an idea was hatched to deport all Mexican Nationals who did not have papers. In 1954 we began the process and within five years of the idea's birth, our unemployment rate *doubled*! It's not as cut and dried as many simplisticists would have you believe. We, as a nation, have a right to regulate immigration, but that's not what we're doing. We are using an idea that was developed by liberal Democrats and intentionally designed to implode.
> 
> Today, the Tea Party and people that congregate around the likes of SARGE7402 really believe they are going to rid America of the Hispanics. It's reminiscent of the Ku Klux Klan and their efforts to ship all the blacks back to Africa. It sounds great on paper, but it isn't going to happen. We simply need to get our heads out of the sand and realize that all people... even SARGE7402 are doing things that encourage people from foreign countries to come here.
> 
> Had we rejected all forms of socialism: welfare, government provided educations, socialized medicine, etc. we would be way ahead of the game. IF we had a credible Guest Worker program we would be ahead of the game. Instead, we tax the living Hell out of our own citizenry so that if one does not want to work, they don't have to. If company X will pay a person $8 an hour, but you can make a better living off welfare, then why work? There are many, many Americans that subscribe to that train of thought.
> 
> The real key is getting those American people off their asses and back into the labor market. Obamacare has put many people on the streets because it's cheaper for employers to get foreign labor rather than to pay for dental insurance, medical insurance, unemployment insurance, etc. The anti - immigrants bitch about foreigners stealing jobs when the jobs belong to the employer, NOT the job seekers. So, if you want a job, you need to make it economically viable for the employer to hire you. That is accomplished by reducing the size, power and scope of government. The key is to take the burden off of job creators, give them a choice of who to hire and give the employer tax incentives that make hiring Americans more profitable.


"If we only had a guest worker program, these people would just come, work for a while, then leave". "They're not breaking the law". BULL. They aren't coming because all of a sudden things have gotten so much worse where they are from, they haven't. The level of violence hasn't changed in years. They ARE breaking the law, which is why they are called ILLEGAL ALIENS (http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_09-15_Jan09.pdf). They are coming here because they know that WE will take care of them for the rest of their lives. It *IS* an INVASION.

We need to send ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS back where they came from, and we need to SECURE our borders. It doesn't matter how much time it will take and it certainly doesn't matter how much it will cost because whatever the cost it will be cheaper then supporting these people and their progeny for generations not to mention that we will be enforcing our laws.


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## Slippy

Notsoyoung said:


> We need to send ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS back where they came from, and we need to SECURE our borders. It doesn't matter how much time it will take and it certainly doesn't matter how much it will cost because whatever the cost it will be cheaper then supporting these people and their progeny for generations not to mention that we will be enforcing our laws.


I do believe that this thread should be closed based upon the above plan. Thank you NotSoYoung.
Case closed...


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## SARGE7402

And all that are detained should be house in Sheriff Joe style tent camps


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> At least you're getting closer to the truth than the self appointed guru...The key is to take the burden off of job creators, give them a choice of who to hire and give the employer tax incentives that make hiring Americans more profitable.


Shortened your post for brevity.

First, I would like to address the nonsense.

Just because someone believes a nation has the duty to control immigration does not mean that person is bigoted toward any group. By the way, enough of referring to another member each and every single time you post. I am not him, I don't even bother reading many posts made by either of you, anymore. In my mind, you two have become a distraction, and my mind needs a reset.

Yes, yes, Jimmy; I know what you are saying. We all do. If you even suspect someone is referring to immigration, you have to run in and tell us all about it. I get it. We all get it. I understand what you are saying, and a lot of it makes sense to my constitutional mind. OK? However, let's look at the whole picture, including the socialism, to which you referred. As long as unemployment rate is sky-high and the numbers who are on government assistance is through the roof, we need no immigration for obvious reasons. Want government assistance? Tell you what, Mr. and Miss Able-Body; go pick tomatoes or work in a chicken plant, and we'll issue food stamps and other forms of assistance to help you along. Sure, that amounts to nothing more than subsidizing businesses, but it is better than doing nothing more than supporting dead beats.

Now, if after unemployment and welfare stats have dropped, bring in the uneducated and unskilled labor. Even then, document them, and do it in an expeditious manner so that business is not made to wait for a long time, and honest people wanting work are not made to wait a long time to gain entry. Oh, and they pay taxes like everyone else. Any business caught hiring illegal entrants under the table is shut down. Simple.

As far as the notion of erasing borders and allowing people to come (and not go) as they please, I think disease, crime and the increase in gang organizations speak for themselves.
The notion that all those flooding the border are good, decent people who merely want honest jobs for honest wages is ridiculous. The notion that they are all Hispanics is not factual, either.

We agree on a lot of things. We agree, most of all, on the fact that socialism is destroying this nation's character and treasury. We even agree that immigration is not a bad thing. I am all for immigration. A nation must be able to import skills as needed. We all understand that. Really, I believe we all do. However, immigration and socialism go hand in hand, as we both have discussed. Fix both.

However, all of this is a moot point in today's discussion. What is happening, today, is nothing more than a part of an overall agenda to take down this nation. At this point, your clinical argument about immigration amounts to someone criticizing a murderer's weapon handling skills as the murderer guns down the critic's family.

I don't think MS-13, the drug cartels, and those from other parts of the world who are coming here for reasons much more sinister than just taking American jobs aren't even the least bit concerned about our discussions about the constitution.

Savage is absolutely correct that language, culture and borders are critical pillars to a nation. Even as (controlled) immigration is a good thing, these pillars must be protected, yet all of them have been under attack for decades. The government, owned and controlled by global corporations and banks, is stepping up its assault against these pillars. If it has its way, our discussions on constitutional concepts will be nothing more than a waste of breath.


----------



## Denton

Some of the best investigative reporting books I have read were by Jerome Corsi. Here, he is being interviewed by David Knight. Very worthwhile.






By the way, when NAFTA opened the doors for the exodus of the textile industries across the border, those jobs were supposed to be replaced with better ones. It never happened. Now, why are people coming from homes of my neighbors' former jobs and flooding this country? Doesn't any of this sound hinky? It should.


----------



## omegabrock

Notsoyoung said:


> "If we only had a guest worker program, these people would just come, work for a while, then leave". "They're not breaking the law". BULL. They aren't coming because all of a sudden things have gotten so much worse where they are from, they haven't. The level of violence hasn't changed in years. They ARE breaking the law, which is why they are called ILLEGAL ALIENS (http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_09-15_Jan09.pdf). They are coming here because they know that WE will take care of them for the rest of their lives. It *IS* an INVASION.
> 
> We need to send ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS back where they came from, and we need to SECURE our borders. It doesn't matter how much time it will take and it certainly doesn't matter how much it will cost because whatever the cost it will be cheaper then supporting these people and their progeny for generations not to mention that we will be enforcing our laws.


and at the risk of sounding like an asshole, that includes minors. is it unfair to treat kids that way? yes. is it unfair to make honest citizens that work for a living be forced to pay taxes that are in turn given to a non citizen (directly or indirectly)? yes.

bottom line, my support goes to American citizens that are working and contributing over non-citizens who found a loophole around being a citizen and the politicians that support the non-citizen because it ensures they continue to sit in their chair and get money handed to them for not doing a damn thing


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## The Resister

Slippy said:


> I do believe that this thread should be closed based upon the above plan. Thank you NotSoYoung.
> Case closed...


That's American "Democracy" in action. We don't need any discussion, just a vote on a board to do something silly and not thought out.


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## PaulS

That isn't "democracy" or even close. A motion was made and seconded. Nobody voted.


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## Slippy

The Resister said:


> That's American "Democracy" in action. We don't need any discussion, just a vote on a board to do something silly and not thought out.


You ain't seen "silly and not thought out" until you've been to a NASCAR race with some of my buddies!


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## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> "If we only had a guest worker program, these people would just come, work for a while, then leave". "They're not breaking the law". BULL. They aren't coming because all of a sudden things have gotten so much worse where they are from, they haven't. The level of violence hasn't changed in years. They ARE breaking the law, which is why they are called ILLEGAL ALIENS (http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_09-15_Jan09.pdf). They are coming here because they know that WE will take care of them for the rest of their lives. It *IS* an INVASION.
> 
> We need to send ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS back where they came from, and we need to SECURE our borders. It doesn't matter how much time it will take and it certainly doesn't matter how much it will cost because whatever the cost it will be cheaper then supporting these people and their progeny for generations not to mention that we will be enforcing our laws.


The ONLY reason I will respond to this is due to the fact that there are others who think you sound good. There is no crime in the United States which makes anyone an "_illegal alien_." If you believe there is a group of people that are "i_llegal aliens_," I can only pray to God that you don't vote.

The failure of the Tea Party in Mississippi ought to be a warning signal that maybe, maybe, those who have chosen to criticize me without hearing all the facts don't know what they're doing. *WHEN* you're the underdog in a political vote, the worst possible thing to do is to give your enemies a reason to vote against you. Had the Tea Party listened to sound counsel, they would have won in Mississippi.

For once, you need to get above the political banter. Facts are a stubborn thing. For instance, the Chief Actuary at the Social Security Administration estimated that 75 percent of those in this country without papers had applied for a Taxpayer Identification Number and were paying the same income taxes that all of you are subject to. Adding insult to injury, the SSA states that foreigners without papers pay $12 BILLION DOLLARS per year into Socialist Security and they will never be able to draw out one thin dime. If you are honest and add up the facts, most of the Hispanics (who comprise the bulk of all undocumented workers) come here for a paycheck... nothing more, nothing less.

Instead of focusing on those people, some here play fear politics with gangs like MS13. There are less than six and half Salvadorans in the whole damn country of Salvador. In terms of numbers of undocumented people here, they are about 3 percent of the total of undocumented people in the U.S. That's not to say they aren't dangerous, but MS13 is NOT representative of the average undocumented alien in the U.S.

If I show how idiotic the MS 13 argument is, we will hear from someone else on a different problem. Yeah, we need to do something about inundating our country with children; yes the disease issue is something we need to address. We need proper regulation, but what we don't need is silly people like Notsoyoung and his ilk exaggerating the truth. Notsoyoung says that there are "_hundreds of thousands_" of Visas available to those undocumented workers. Bull ****ing shit people. The number of available Visas that address the Mexican laborers is *less* than the number of undocumented workers in the metro Atlanta area alone. Yet, there are an estimated 10 million workers that would gladly get papers. Let's quit bullshitting each other. That is not the issue and you know it.

America is stuck on stupid. In order to get even a job at MickeyDs, one must go through a background check. Most Americans under 35 have been caught for some petty "_crime_." Your representative on this board would laud that and say they deserve it. Then again, there are MILLIONS of lazy ass kids that can't get a job because they think dope is more important. They can't pass a background check and nobody wants to stop this nonsense of making every breach of the law a "_crime_." Millions of undocumented workers have no criminal record. Well, it's easier for the younger generation to get free SSRIs and a welfare check that they don't have to work for, so the undocumented workers step in and fill the void. That's reality. Blaming those undocumented workers for the situation is like blaming flies for garbage.

America, from the time of the Constitution to the first mass deportation, was the better part of 200 years old. BTW, in the 1950s, we only deported the Mexicans because Mexico wanted them back. We did excellent as a nation without walls and hundreds of thousands of armed federal mercenaries that will oppress you just as they promise to oppress the undocumented workers. Those who don't want to discuss this don't want a solution; they want a ****ing lynching. It's been said that a broken clock has the potential of being right twice a day. Well, with a decade plus of losing your ass on this issue, it should dawn on you that I may be right. I am... which is why Slippy wants to end this thread now. You can have your little board vote; lose your ass at the polls and, if you sneak a few people by, the United States Supreme Court will stop you dead in your tracks. Unfortunately, what they will keep is the Socialist loopholes that some are creating in the vain hopes of shipping the Hispanics south of the border.

IF you were smart, you would retrace your steps and begin a process whereby the undocumented workers would leave of their own accord... no walls, no National ID, no Constitution Free Zones, no gun control, no drones and no mega sized POLICE STATE to deal with. But, what the Hell. You have your fantasy and more than a decade of experience getting your collective asses kicked by left wing liberals that don't have the IQ of a shoe size between the lot of them. Personally, I'd be embarrassed if I belonged to a group with that kind of record. If someone DOES want to discuss the issue without all the votes to censor dissent, I'm pretty easy to find.


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## Notsoyoung

I won't bother printing out the whole thing here, just point out that the Federal Government considers them ILLEGAL ALIENS, http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_09-15_Jan09.pdf What's the title of that manual? "Removals Involving Illegal Alien Parents of United States". Hard as it may be to believe, I think you are full of BULL. The are here ILLEGALLY. They need to be kicked out of the country. They WILL NOT do it on their own.


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## PaulS

There is a difference between felonies and illegal. Speeding is a civil offense but it is still illegal.


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## Notsoyoung

PaulS said:


> There is a difference between felonies and illegal. Speeding is a civil offense but it is still illegal.


We have a winner!


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## SARGE7402

To say that the Mexican Gang Problem is minor compared to the other Socialist issues begs the facts.

Just a few of the really hard working folk that just want to earn a living in the US of A.

My tally for just these few is upwards of 75,000!

So don't say it's a minor problem.

LATINO PRISON GANGS: Mexikanemi

Mara Salvatrucha (commonly abbreviated as MS, Mara, and MS-13) is a criminal gang that originated in Los Angeles and has spread to Central America, other parts of the United States, and Canada. MS-13 is one of the most dangerous gangs in the United States. The majority of the gang is ethnically composed of Salvadorans, Hondurans, Guatemalans, and Nicaraguans.

Their activities have caught the eye of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), who in September 2005 initiated wide-scale raids against suspected gang members, netting 660 arrests across United States. ICE efforts were at first directed towards MS-13, in its Operation Community Shield. In May 2005, ICE expanded Operation Community Shield to include all transnational organized crime and prison gangs. ICE's Operation Community Shield has since arrested 7,655 street gang members. In the United States, the gang's strongholds have historically been in the American Southwest and West Coast states. Membership in the U.S was believed to be as many as about 50,000 as of 2005. MS-13 criminal activities include drug smuggling and sales, arms trafficking, auto theft, carjacking, home invasion, assault, aggravated assault, assault on law enforcement officials, drive-by shootings, contract killing and murder.
18th Street is considered the largest street gang in Los Angeles, California 18th Street is a group of loosely associated sets or cliques, each led by an influential member. Membership is estimated to be 8,000 to 20,000. In California approximately 80 percent of the gang's members are illegal aliens from Mexico and Central America. The gang is active in 44 cities in 20 states. Its main source of income is street-level distribution of cocaine and marijuana and, to a lesser extent, heroin and methamphetamine. Gang members also commit assault, auto theft, carjacking, drive-by shooting, extortion, homicide, identification fraud, and robbery.

Florencia 13 (F 13 or FX 13) originated in Los Angeles in the early 1960s; gang membership is estimated to be more than 3,000 members. The gang operates primarily in California and increasingly in Arkansas, Missouri, New Mexico, and Utah. Florencia 13 is subordinate to the Mexican Mafia (La Eme) prison gang and claims Sureños (Sur 13) affiliation. A primary source of income for gang members is the trafficking of cocaine and methamphetamine. Gang members smuggle multikilogram-quantities of powdered cocaine and methamphetamine obtained from sources of supply in Mexico into the United States for distribution. Also, gang members produce large quantities of methamphetamine in southern California for local distribution. Florencia members are involved in other criminal activities including assault, drive-by shooting, and homicide.
The Barrio Azteca is based in the El Paso-Juárez area and has an estimated 2,000 members. Of the more than 4,600 gangs in Texas, the Barrio Azteca "has historically had the strongest and most entrenched relationship with a Mexican cartel," stated the DPS report, referring to the gang's work with the Juárez drug cartel.
Mexikanemi is known as the Texas Mexican Mafia in the Texan penal systems. It functions separately from the original California Mexican Mafia (La eMe). The Texas branch identifies itself as "Mexikanemi," (Soldiers of Aztlan), or La EMI, while the California branch identifies itself as La EME. In addition, California's branch of the Mexican Mafia calls itself the Surenos (denoting set affiliation). Mexikanemi was formed as an offshoot from the Mexican Mafia in Texas by Heriberto "Herbie" Huerta and Jose Lopez in 1984. The prison gang operates in both prisons and the streets. The gang is involved in crimes such as drug trafficking, murder, extortion, robbery and loan sharking. The gang is highly organized and operates under a strict paramilitary structure. There is an estimated 2,000 Mexikanemi members in cities across the U.S. and Mexico.

Symbols: Mexican eagle w/sun and crossed daggers, La EMI, Mexikanemi, 13
Territory: Texas prison system, San Antonio, Austin, Laredo, Corpus Christi, Mexico
Allies: Mexican Mafia, Aryan Brotherhood
Rivals: Texas Syndicate, Nuestra Familia, Black Guerrilla Family
Members: 2,000
Ethnicity: Hispanic


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## SARGE7402

With regards to worker visas it right at 150,000 per year.

So while the number isn't as large as some would like it does add up especially when the H-1B visa can also be used as a stepping stone for dependents - I have that on good authority one H-1b and four dependents, so It can add up to quite a few folks

The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services said Thursday it received 172,500 petitions from companies seeking to hire skilled foreign nationals for the next fiscal year under the country’s H-1B visa program. This more than exceeds the 85,000 available visas, so for the thousands of companies that didn’t get their paperwork in on time: better luck next year. 

AGRICULTURAL (H-2A) AND NON-AGRICULTURAL (H-2B) TEMPORARY LABOR
United States (US) employers may petition for skilled or unskilled foreign workers to meet temporary or seasonal needs in positions for which qualified US workers are not available. The H-2 nonimmigrant classifications include H-2A for agricultural workers and H-2B for non-agricultural workers. IMPORTANT! Both the services for which the employer requests H-2 labor approval and the employer's need for such services must be temporary. Petitions of employers determined to have an ongoing or continuing need for the H-2 services sought will be denied.
Annual quota
There is an annual cap of 66,000 visas available for H-2B workers. There is no annual cap on visas for H-2A workers.


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## SARGE7402

Not hundreds of thousands of armed federal mercenaries,

US Immigration and Customs Enforcement = 19,000; and US Customs and Border Patrol = 64,000 or a total of right at 83,000.


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## SARGE7402

Immigration and welfare are two parts of the problem. They differ in two significant ways: Immigration - Illegal - requires the current administration (Executive Branch) to enforce the existing laws. Welfare requires basic changes to the system of benefits - and that requires Congress (both houses of the legislative Branch) to pass the required legislation to make the changes and the Executive Branch to sign it into law and enforcement.

The former is real easy - enforce existing laws. Those not here legally here get a ticket home with much of what they own.

It's not rocket science


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## SARGE7402

With regards to lawyers being hired for the children coming in right now. Since all are under 18 they legally can not represent themselves in any court unless they've been emancipated. So weither Resister or any one else likes it or not we are a nation of laws and rights and to deny that protection to this children would be criminal


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## Notsoyoung

The attitude that Border patrol agents are "armed mercenaries" says allot. The very FIRST step that needs to be taken is to secure our border to keep these ILLEGAL aliens from entering the country. Right after that, round them up and ship them out. Let me say it again, no matter how high the cost would be to do so would be much cheaper then keeping them here and supporting them for the rest of their lives.


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## Notsoyoung

Just a side note, yesterday Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Brown (D) said that the obama administration can't be held responsible for the colossal flood of ILLEGALS entering the country because it is caused by the civil war in Syria. Let me say it again, all of these ILLEGALS coming in from Central America are doing so because of the civil war in SYRIA. This is the same moron who thought that Neil Armstrong planted an American flag on MARS.


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## shootbrownelk

SARGE7402 said:


> With regards to lawyers being hired for the children coming in right now. Since all are under 18 they legally can not represent themselves in any court unless they've been emancipated. So weither Resister or any one else likes it or not we are a nation of laws and rights and to deny that protection to this children would be criminal


 What kind of consideration is Mexico providing the Marine who took a wrong turn? If the South American countries suddenly received a flood of American illegal immigrants, do you think they'd pony-up 3.7 BILLION dollars to deal with them? Mexico prison officials kicked the crap out of our Marine, how do you think that treatment of a Mexican would fly here in the States? We ought to treat ILLEGAL ALIENS from Mexico and all points south the same way they'd treat Americans. Throw them in Prison and then DEPORT A.S.A.P.! Just my $0.02.


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## SARGE7402

don't disagree with you, but I'm talking about children. and would you want your child facing a legal hearing with out a parent/guardian/or lawyer? 

And remember we're not some third world country with a tin plated dictator.


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## rice paddy daddy

SARGE7402 said:


> And remember we're not some third world country with a tin plated dictator.


Not yet, anyway. But Barrack HUSSIEN Obama is trying real, real hard to make it one.


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## Inor

SARGE7402 said:


> And remember we're not some third world country with a tin plated dictator.


I don't know about that. We have the tin pot dictator. About the only thing we are missing is the livestock riding public transportation and I expect that will be coming to Chicago real soon.


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## omegabrock

The Resister said:


> The ONLY reason I will respond to this is due to the fact that there are others who think you sound good. There is no crime in the United States which makes anyone an "_illegal alien_." If you believe there is a group of people that are "i_llegal aliens_," I can only pray to God that you don't vote.
> 
> The failure of the Tea Party in Mississippi ought to be a warning signal that maybe, maybe, those who have chosen to criticize me without hearing all the facts don't know what they're doing. *WHEN* you're the underdog in a political vote, the worst possible thing to do is to give your enemies a reason to vote against you. Had the Tea Party listened to sound counsel, they would have won in Mississippi.
> 
> For once, you need to get above the political banter. Facts are a stubborn thing. For instance, the Chief Actuary at the Social Security Administration estimated that 75 percent of those in this country without papers had applied for a Taxpayer Identification Number and were paying the same income taxes that all of you are subject to. Adding insult to injury, the SSA states that foreigners without papers pay $12 BILLION DOLLARS per year into Socialist Security and they will never be able to draw out one thin dime. If you are honest and add up the facts, most of the Hispanics (who comprise the bulk of all undocumented workers) come here for a paycheck... nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Instead of focusing on those people, some here play fear politics with gangs like MS13. There are less than six and half Salvadorans in the whole damn country of Salvador. In terms of numbers of undocumented people here, they are about 3 percent of the total of undocumented people in the U.S. That's not to say they aren't dangerous, but MS13 is NOT representative of the average undocumented alien in the U.S.
> 
> If I show how idiotic the MS 13 argument is,


i stopped reading at this point.

FBI ? MS-13 Threat Assessment


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## pharmer14

The Resister said:


> NO. The reason is you have a freaking WELCOME sign to come to America, but no credible Guest Worker program...


Yeah guest worker would be the way to go, but it's not gonna happen for 2 reasons. First is they keep jacking up the minimum wage. Formalizing these laborers will force people to pay them more, which defeats the purpose. Second, the only thing the people in charge care about is voters. If these people can't vote, there's no reason to change anything.



> The system does not allow an equal opportunity for entrepreneurs and business to compete with large corporations.


It does, but in different ways from what you view as "competition." The internet and automation for example are allowing entrepreneurs much more flexibility than before. You can publish a book without an editor or publisher today. All you have to do is put it in the Kindle book store for $0.99. The same is true for music.

3D printing is also taking off. In some places, they're piloting 3D printers to build friggin' HOUSES!

We have simply become a culture that doesn't need laborers as much any more. Like it or not, it's true. I personally disdain it.



> It will ultimately be ruled as a violation of the 14th Amendment.


Do you know why we have a 14th amendment? The only reason that amendment exists is because the progressive SCOTUS interpreted slavery as Constitutional in the Dredd Scott case. Heck, the 14th amendment itself re-states terms directly out of the preamble "life, liberty, and property" ("pursuit of happiness" was used in place of "property" because the founders didn't want to give slaveholders a constitutional argument... Check the Federalist Papers for the source on that).

It shouldn't be any clearer that the 14th amendment is a duplication of what the founders intended, but was destroyed by progressives in the 1800s.

Let's not pretend the 14th amendment is anything but what it actually is. It's a bandage on a gaping hole in the constitution that was put there by the very people who swore to uphold it.


----------



## pharmer14

shootbrownelk said:


> What kind of consideration is Mexico providing the Marine who took a wrong turn? If the South American countries suddenly received a flood of American illegal immigrants, do you think they'd pony-up 3.7 BILLION dollars to deal with them? Mexico prison officials kicked the crap out of our Marine, how do you think that treatment of a Mexican would fly here in the States? We ought to treat ILLEGAL ALIENS from Mexico and all points south the same way they'd treat Americans. Throw them in Prison and then DEPORT A.S.A.P.! Just my $0.02.


Yeah how's that for a good neighbor? We "turn around" or deport 400k of their citizens a year without putting them in jail, but they can't send us one person back???

I'd end aid to Mexico and start immediately until that boy is safe in San Diego with all 3 of his firearms and the rest of his belongings.


----------



## pharmer14

The Resister said:


> The failure of the Tea Party in Mississippi ought to be a warning signal that maybe, maybe, those who have chosen to criticize me without hearing all the facts don't know what they're doing.


Ha... Out of all the knee slappers you've ever wrote on this website, this one takes the cake... The story out of Mississippi isn't about the Tea Party. The story out of Mississippi is about the RINO's taking their mask off and climbing into bed with the Democrats...


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## pharmer14

Muslim Prayer Rug Found on Arizona Border by Independent American Security Contractors

Goes to show that this isn't just about "the children..."

This hole in the border is a serious national security issue as well... We need to know who's coming and going...


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## Notsoyoung

We are being invaded and the Government is standing by with it's thumb up it's butt.


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## SARGE7402

Notsoyoung said:


> We are being invaded and the Government is standing by with it's thumb up it's butt.


Now you must not call it an Invasion. Resister has spoken on that subject and laid don the law. We must not anger him.:lol:


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Federal Government has stopped stopped reporting just how many ILLEGALS are crossing the border. They do not allow pictures of the ILLEGALS, nor allow Journalists or even Congressmen to ask them questions. They make medical workers sign non-disclosure agreements not to speak about the diseases and other health problems that the ILLEGALS are bringing into the country with them, and GUARD the health care workers to make sure that they aren't taking any pictures. They do not inform local authorities when the Federal Government decides to dump a couple of thousand ILLEGALS in their area. The Federal Government is shipping these ILLEGALS who are infected with TB, scabies, measles, chicken pox, lice, and even leprosy, throughout the country on commercial airlines. Only idiots and ideologues aren't worried about this assault on our Country.


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## rice paddy daddy

We are being invaded. And Obama knows. And Obama is pleased.
Read this news article. You won't see THIS on CNN or any other government mouthpiece.
Mexican Train Derails With 1,000 Illegal Immigrants Riding On Top


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## rice paddy daddy

And the hits just keep on comin'.
This border crisis is about to get worse. Much worse.
What Mexico and Guatemala Just Did Could Make Our Border Crisis 10 Times Worse | Top Right NewsTop Right News


----------



## Arizona Infidel

Slippy said:


> More Alinsky tactics.


Everybody should read rules for radicals. 
Everything Obama does is right out of that book. Everything. Even Obamas organizing for AMERIKA was right out of that book. It was the last chapter. If everyone would read that book all would see exactly what every move obummer makes really is. Once you read the book you'll know.
The biggest thing is to learn how to counteract it.


----------



## SARGE7402

Arizona Infidel said:


> Everybody should read rules for radicals.
> Everything Obama does is right out of that book. Everything. Even Obamas organizing for AMERIKA was right out of that book. It was the last chapter. If everyone would read that book all would see exactly what every move obummer makes really is. Once you read the book you'll know.
> The biggest thing is to learn how to counteract it.


won't get an arguement from me on this one


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## shootbrownelk

Slippy said:


> Resister,
> 
> What can this great Nation do to stop the improper border crossings?
> 
> Your friend,
> 
> Slippy


 Slippy, watch the movie "The Coneheads" the border patrol official had a novel idea that would work great. You put a collar around the neck of every illegal alien apprehended, then send them back across the border. When they re-enter they cross under a wire that runs down the U.S. border with Mexico...and that blows their head off. Let's implement that ASAP.


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## SARGE7402

The border is only 2000 miles. Let's have the national guard at this year's summercamp install three coil three high concertina fencing along the border. At $34 for a roll of 50' we should be able to get the materials for less than $100 Million and since we've got to pay the troops for summer camp already let's use them and put the positive barrier in place before the Mid terms


----------



## Lucky Jim

And the Fab Four's 'Magical Mystery Tour' was a waste of celluloid apart from the great songs.
I mean, they went all round England on a coach, but we only got the tiniest glimpse of the cities and towns they passed through.
I can only suppose they and the cameraman were as high as kites..

Incidentally if you ever visit Plymouth England, you may occasionally notice tourists taking pictures of a piece of grass, or posing on it, or having picnics on it. That's because the Beatles sat on the exact spot for this pic during the making of Magical Mystery Tour, and the patch of grass has become something of a tourist attraction..










EDIT- oops have i posted this in the wrong thread? I could have sworn somebody was talking about the Beatles earlier on..


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## Smitty901

This is not a Crisis but a planned event. It was planned out and timed to happen . Every bit of it staged.


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## omegabrock

SARGE7402 said:


> The border is only 2000 miles. Let's have the national guard at this year's summercamp install three coil three high concertina fencing along the border. At $34 for a roll of 50' we should be able to get the materials for less than $100 Million and since we've got to pay the troops for summer camp already let's use them and put the positive barrier in place before the Mid terms


a couple pieces of 2x4 or a decent piece of plywood and the wire is useless


----------



## Notsoyoung

Smitty901 said:


> This is not a Crisis but a planned event. It was planned out and timed to happen . Every bit of it staged.


I believe that it was last year when the Administration was looking for contractors to escort an estimated 60,000 ILLEGAL alien children. That would seem to indicate that it was indeed planned.


----------



## Notsoyoung

omegabrock said:


> a couple pieces of 2x4 or a decent piece of plywood and the wire is useless


Not if there was someone with an automatic weapon waiting for someone attempting to cross. Shoot one or two of then and I think people would be shocked just how quickly ILLEGAL aliens would stop trying to invade our country.


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## Smitty901

Each of you will soon be getting a notice in the mail. Your child support payments will be deducted from you check each payday.
You were never notified of the hearing but you have been assigned responsibility for a child you never knew. According to this administration that means you must make support payments.
You will have no parental rights in this madder , The government will take care of education and indoctrination as they see fit.
Payroll deduction will insure payments are made on time and avoid legal cost for late payments.


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## PaulS

I would love to see that note!
I would be able to prove that not only was the child not mine but that we weren't event remotely related. 
Then I would (with the winnings from the suit) file a class action suit on behalf of the rest of the recipients.


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## Smitty901

PaulS said:


> I would love to see that note!
> I would be able to prove that not only was the child not mine but that we weren't event remotely related.
> Then I would (with the winnings from the suit) file a class action suit on behalf of the rest of the recipients.


 The King does not agree there for you lost your case.
Securing the boarder will do no good Obama is opening the gates and letting them in. He has had the DHS going to Mexico and picking them up.
Your Child support payments will come in the form of a TAX. You will have nothing to say about it.
By EO Obama no longer needs Congress to create a tax. Like our last Governor did. Just take the money from some where else use it, then raise the taxes to cover what he took. Obama is doing it as we sit here.


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## keith9365

Smitty901 said:


> This is not a Crisis but a planned event. It was planned out and timed to happen . Every bit of it staged.


^^^^^^^What he said!


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## SARGE7402

Illegals are law abiding folk. Mother of officer killed by illegal immigrant writes Obama - CBS 5 - KPHO

Can't tell you how many times this act has been played out over the almost two decades I've been a peace officer


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## Notsoyoung

Mexico, Guatemala fast-track delivery of illegals to U.S.

Mexico and Guatemala have signed an agreement making it easier and safer for citizens from Central America to travel through Mexico on their way to the U.S.. In other words, Mexico is helping those who are planning on entering the U.S. ILLEGALLY to do so. This is an invasion.


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## SARGE7402

Want to bet that as soon as LaRaza sees enough "Hispanics" in certain areas that they will ask the UN for a self determination plebesite. And don't think that BhO and is crowd won't go along. Viva sudetenland


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## Notsoyoung

Border Patrol Agent Hospitalized with Pneumonia Caught from an Illegal Immigrant, Expected to Have Lifelong Complications | National Review Online

A border patrol agent has caught bacterial pneumonia from processing ILLEGAL aliens. He spent 7 days in a hospital before being released and will have asthma like symptoms for the rest of his life.

This is an air born disease. We are sending these people on commercial airlines throughout the country. Anyone see a possible problem from this and other diseases that is being brought into the USA and then spread throughout the country?


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## Arizona Infidel

SARGE7402 said:


> Want to bet that as soon as LaRaza sees enough "Hispanics" in certain areas that they will ask the UN for a self determination plebesite. And don't think that BhO and is crowd won't go along. Viva sudetenland


I'm curious. Have you started connecting any dots yet? Or are you still calling those who do conspiracy nuts, thinking this is all just coincidence?


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## Notsoyoung

Arizona Infidel said:


> I'm curious. Have you started connecting any dots yet? Or are you still calling those who do conspiracy nuts, thinking this is all just coincidence?


You know, just because someone is a "conspiracy nut", it doesn't mean that they are wrong. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then. Remember that old saying that if it looks like a duck......... just maybe it's a duck.


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## Smitty901

What is going on now is NOT a conspiracy it is a Plan of action being carried out like an operation order.

1. Situation: Obama is running out of tine to destroy our system of Government action needs to take place now,
Enemy: US veterans,Tax payers not aligned with the Democrats
Friendly forces: Muslim nations, Democrats, socialist and many libertarians . MSNCB and friends
2. Mission:
Obama will use all government agencies to attack citizen not in agreement with him.
He will use IRS and NSA to discredit them in any way they can
DHS will take control of local LE
3.Execution : Water down the vote by allowing those that agree with Obama to vote as often as the can
Prevent any effort to stop voter fraud
Put as many people as we can on a government check
Flood the US court system with children from other countries.
Enlist other governments to help send in more children.
4. Service and Support : DHS to provide support to all agencies as needed including transportation.
AG Holder to help file supporting court cases and hinder all others
HHS to help import more children and take over Military bases to house them.
5.Command a signal: Leader Obama, location Golf Course
Communication to be handled by MSNbc with support from ABC,CNN.ESPN and all other 
Station except FOX .
Liberal dog whistles will be used to send covert messages.
If you were unable to figure out the Commander's intent from this Operation order then wake the heck up.
Obama will with this order disrupt and break down all social networks in America . He will replace them with his own. The system of Justice will be brought to it's knees and come under his control. 


Ok poor operation order, I really did not want to spend all day on it. But you get the drift. There is a plan something like this, it is being played out as we sit here.


----------



## Denton

Smitty901 said:


> What is going on now is NOT a conspiracy it is a Plan of action being carried out like an operation order.


You mean, it is not a theory. It is certainly a conspiracy, as two or more are working to conspire. Against our nation. Big time.


----------



## Notsoyoung

I was watching a news show this morning and they had a Democrat talking head who said that we need to have a comprehensive immigration bill passed, the 3 or 4 billion dollars that the President wants to process and house the ILLEGAL aliens crossing the border NOW, and THEN using the money that we will save by passing what is basically amnesty for the ILLEGAL aliens that are here, we can secure the border.

1st, WHAT money will be save. 2nd, while all of this is going on we will still have the flood of ILLEGAL aliens invading our country.

That makes as much sense as having a water pipe breaking in your house you decide to mop up the water before turning off the main water valve. What a load of crap, and just how stupid are these people?


----------



## Arizona Infidel

Notsoyoung said:


> I was watching a news show this morning and they had a Democrat talking head who said that we need to have a comprehensive immigration bill passed, the 3 or 4 billion dollars that the President wants to process and house the ILLEGAL aliens crossing the border NOW, and THEN using the money that we will save by passing what is basically amnesty for the ILLEGAL aliens that are here, we can secure the border.
> 
> 1st, WHAT money will be save. 2nd, while all of this is going on we will still have the flood of ILLEGAL aliens invading our country.
> 
> That makes as much sense as having a water pipe breaking in your house you decide to mop up the water before turning off the main water valve. What a load of crap, and just how stupid are these people?


Well, many of them are not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing. Stalin-Lenin styl Communism has turned into Democratic Socialism. 
You are addressing what they say from YOUR mindset, not theirs. They are working tword CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN, not LIBERTY and FREEDOM.. So from their viewpoint the sooner we can give these New Democratic Socialists, or Democrats for short, while I prefer to label them as demon rats, legal status then yes, it does save them money. 
Read Alinsky. Think from their viewpoint. Understand what they are doing and saying.


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## SARGE7402

Arizona Infidel said:


> I'm curious. Have you started connecting any dots yet? Or are you still calling those who do conspiracy nuts, thinking this is all just coincidence?


AI: I've been connecting the dots for quite some time. the difference between me and some others, I rate intelligence based on source and validity. Some sources are unknowns. Others are definitely suspect because of past unreliabilities.

And on some issues some folks are conspiracy nuts and on other issues they're not.

And in this case on this immigration issue there is more than a coincidence. There's just too many things that they all can not be independent coincidences.


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## Notsoyoung

Obama refuses to send the National Guard to the border to stop the invading flood of ILLEGAL aliens because it would only be a "temporary" fix. How stupid is that reasoning? That would be like a falling branch putting a huge hole in your roof and you say that you aren't going to throw a tarp over the hole until you can get some roofers to repair it because it would only be a "temporary" fix.


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## Denton

Blog: ICE lets contract for 42,000 pairs of oversized underwear

Really? 2X to 4X underwear? Wow! These must be some really huuuuge women children pouring over the border, huh?


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## Badcompany

I think this recent surge in illegal immigration is just the final PLANNED step for the new world takeover. I could sit here and speculate all day on who will take seats as head of the nwo, but I think that would be pointless on my part. I do believe however by the time everyone finishes claiming there prize (US) the states will look like a cut birthday cake.


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## keith9365

If thousands of illegal immigrants can walk across the border carrying backpacks, how many terrorists have crossed the border carrying backpacks? Are there cells forming? On a preplanned day and time will there be simultaneous attacks across the country? How many will die?


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## Lucky Jim

keith9365 said:


> If thousands of illegal immigrants can walk across the border carrying backpacks, how many terrorists have crossed the border carrying backpacks? Are there cells forming? On a preplanned day and time will there be simultaneous attacks across the country? How many will die?


My guess is that the muslim world is biding its time til it gets its hands on nuke weapons and can make "backpack nukes", that's when it'll REALLY hit the fan, because there are a zillion ways terrorists could get into the USA/Britain or any other country.
The Koran gives them the right to hit us-
_[Koran 17.33] "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, *except for a just cause*"
_
and at the moment they feel they have 'just cause' for two reasons-
1- Our support for Israel
2- Our military presence in the mideast


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## Notsoyoung

Lucky Jim said:


> My guess is that the muslim world is biding its time til it gets its hands on nuke weapons and can make "backpack nukes", that's when it'll REALLY hit the fan, because there are a zillion ways terrorists could get into the USA/Britain or any other country.
> The Koran gives them the right to hit us-
> _[Koran 17.33] "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, *except for a just cause*"
> _
> and at the moment they feel they have 'just cause' for two reasons-
> 1- Our support for Israel
> 2- Our military presence in the mideast


You have left out the MAJOR reason that they hate us, they believe that our culture is corrupting their people. This is according to them, no me. If we didn't have a military presence in the Middle-East or support Israel, they would still hate us, just for being alive. The West, and the U.S. in particular is hated by radical Muslims because of our culture.


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## shootbrownelk

Notsoyoung said:


> Obama refuses to send the National Guard to the border to stop the invading flood of ILLEGAL aliens because it would only be a "temporary" fix. How stupid is that reasoning? That's would be like a falling branch putting a huge hole in your roof and you say that you aren't going to throw a tarp over the hole until you can get some roofers to repair it because it would only be a "temporary" fix.


 Sending the National Guard to Iraq was a good idea? How about having the National Guard doing their one and only job, and actually Guard our country? Temporary fix my ass. Shoot some illegals and it'd be a permanent fix. Or, we could persuade some rifle bearing Starbucks patrons to vacation along the Texas/Mexico border. Shooting "coyotes" on jet-skis sounds like a pleasant way to spend a lazy afternoon.


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## Lucky Jim

Notsoyoung said:


> You have left out the MAJOR reason that they hate us, they believe that our culture is corrupting their people. This is according to them, no me. If we didn't have a military presence in the Middle-East or support Israel, they would still hate us, just for being alive. The West, and the U.S. in particular is hated by radical Muslims because of our culture.


Yeah, but at least if we stopped supporting Israel and got our boots out of the mideast they wouldn't hate us quite so much..

_[Koran 17.33] "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause"
[Koran 9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness"_

PS- to my Jewish friends I say you don't need Western support anyway because Israel is a nuclear power and well able to defend herself.
In fact, by being on America's payroll you're having to do what America tells you; for examp you want to nuke Irans reactors but America won't let you.
So by cutting ties with Uncle Sam you'll have a free hand to defend yourselves in any way you see fit without having to go running to America for a permission slip..


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## Notsoyoung

Lucky Jim said:


> Yeah, but at least if we stopped supporting Israel and got our boots out of the mideast they wouldn't hate us quite so much..
> 
> _[Koran 17.33] "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause"
> [Koran 9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness"_
> 
> PS- to my Jewish friends I say you don't need Western support anyway because Israel is a nuclear power and well able to defend herself.
> In fact, by being on America's payroll you're having to do what America tells you; for examp you want to nuke Irans reactors but America won't let you.
> So by cutting ties with Uncle Sam you'll have a free hand to defend yourselves in any way you see fit without having to go running to America for a permission slip..


The MAIN reason they hate us is because of our culture. If they don't hate us as much does that mean they won't kill us as dead?

Time for a reality check, there is NOTHING that we can do that will keep them from hating us unless we believe and act like they do.


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## Slippy

The islamist animals want us dead or converted. islam is a socio-political ideology of world domination. The liberal fools attempt to disguise it as a religion. The animals that are part of islam are gay, pedophilic, women haters who are obsessed with eliminating everyone who does not convert to their sick ideology.


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## inceptor

Lucky Jim said:


> Yeah, but at least if we stopped supporting Israel and got our boots out of the mideast they wouldn't hate us quite so much..
> 
> _[Koran 17.33] "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause"
> [Koran 9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness"_
> 
> PS- to my Jewish friends I say you don't need Western support anyway because Israel is a nuclear power and well able to defend herself.
> In fact, by being on America's payroll you're having to do what America tells you; for examp you want to nuke Irans reactors but America won't let you.
> So by cutting ties with Uncle Sam you'll have a free hand to defend yourselves in any way you see fit without having to go running to America for a permission slip..


They call Israel "Little Satan"

They call the US "Big Satan"

You have alluded to the fact on many occasions that if the terrorists take out Israel, they will be satisfied and stop. Do you really believe that?

Worldwide Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This also might be worth reading

http://www.alislam.org/topics/khilafat/khilafat-and-caliphate.pdf


----------



## The Resister

keith9365 said:


> If thousands of illegal immigrants can walk across the border carrying backpacks, how many terrorists have crossed the border carrying backpacks? Are there cells forming? On a preplanned day and time will there be simultaneous attacks across the country? How many will die?


I find something disturbing about the constant harping on this scenario:

Since before the United States was a country, people from south of the border have traveled freely from Mexico into the United States and back. Even when the U.S. invaded Iraq back in 2001, with all our troops committed to that region, you did not have terrorists crossing the border with suitcase nukes.

I don't think those with a vested interest will stop trying to sell that scenario until they themselves provide the backpacks and chase someone across the border into the U.S.

Presupposing that this "_invasion_" view is correct and the little brown people are "_stealing our jobs_" (sic) and taking the U.S., of what value would it be for them to allow Muslims to cross the southern border and attack the U.S. when a sizable number of the Mexicans would lose family members? Hmmm... Then, again, I've told you that those crossing the border were not "_invading_."


----------



## SARGE7402

Somali who smuggled Islamic extremists across U.S.-Mexico border gets 10 years in SA | Dallas Morning News

I'm sure glad Resister has explained to all of us just how safe we all are from Islamic Terrorists. Makes me feel way much better than listening or reading reports from the DEA, DHS or the UN.

And R: these sleeper cells, they're nothing more than one of your Militia groups right. Same background, same patriotic mind set; same devotion to America.

Feds Warn Of Terrorists Sneaking Into U.S. Through Mexico | Judicial Watch

Congressman says ISIS will use southern border to enter US: Muslim prayer rug found on Arizona border | Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com
Hezbollah terror threat on U.S.-Mexico border is real | Arizona Capitol Times
Uncle Sams Misguided Children ? US-Mexico Border: Open Door for Terrorism

Muslim Terrorists Caught Crossing US Border // Mr. Conservative
Foreign ?terrorists? breach U.S. border
Proof That islamic Terrorists Are Entering U.S. From Mexican Border | THE WAKING GIANT

http://www.kevinwebb22.com/wp-conte...errorist-network-in-america-sleeper-cells.jpg


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Somali who smuggled Islamic extremists across U.S.-Mexico border gets 10 years in SA | Dallas Morning News
> 
> I'm sure glad Resister has explained to all of us just how safe we all are from Islamic Terrorists. Makes me feel way much better than listening or reading reports from the DEA, DHS or the UN.
> 
> And R: these sleeper cells, they're nothing more than one of your Militia groups right. Same background, same patriotic mind set; same devotion to America.
> 
> Feds Warn Of Terrorists Sneaking Into U.S. Through Mexico | Judicial Watch
> 
> Congressman says ISIS will use southern border to enter US: Muslim prayer rug found on Arizona border | Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com
> Hezbollah terror threat on U.S.-Mexico border is real | Arizona Capitol Times
> Uncle Sams Misguided Children ? US-Mexico Border: Open Door for Terrorism
> 
> Muslim Terrorists Caught Crossing US Border // Mr. Conservative
> Foreign ?terrorists? breach U.S. border
> Proof That islamic Terrorists Are Entering U.S. From Mexican Border | THE WAKING GIANT
> 
> http://www.kevinwebb22.com/wp-conte...errorist-network-in-america-sleeper-cells.jpg


I find your constant cheap shots to be less than amusing. Still running for office, but don't want to tell us about your campaign again? You should give it a rest. Nobody said that Muslims are patriotic. I'm just asking a freaking question.

What does Mexico have to gain, allowing Muslims to enter the U.S. for terrorist activities when so much of Mexico is represented in the U.S.? Are you saying that the Mexicans would bite the hand that feeds them? Are you claiming that Hispanics are so far below the rest of the world that they would kill their own relatives just to spite the likes of you?

No amount of links to scare tactics changes the history of this war. When the Muslims - or any other group have had ample opportunity to strike the way you claim, they haven't. We've been neck deep now in this for at least a decade plus (not counting the prior years where the tension was sporadic.)

SARGE, is there a real reason that you feel so insecure that you have to be negative toward *everyone* that disagrees with your personal position?


----------



## SARGE7402

The Resister said:


> I find your constant cheap shots to be less than amusing. Still running for office, but don't want to tell us about your campaign again? You should give it a rest. Nobody said that Muslims are patriotic. I'm just asking a freaking question.
> 
> What does Mexico have to gain, allowing Muslims to enter the U.S. for terrorist activities when so much of Mexico is represented in the U.S. Are you saying that the Mexicans would bite the hand that feeds them? Are you claiming that Hispanics are so far below the rest of the world that they would kill their own relatives just to spite the likes of you?


Guess you didn't read the posts. Seems to be not the Mexican Govt, but the Narco trade. And any time there's lots of money to be made everyone wants a piece of the action.

And just who do you think is bearing the brunt of the Narco war in Mexico. Sure some government folks are being killed, but it's the every day peasant in Northern Mexico that's bearing the brunt.

And perhaps a small history lesson would be useful. The german population of Czech-Slovakia staged very violent demonstrations, riots, and so forth in 1937/38 and gave Nazi Germany the excuse to talk England & France out of the Sudetenland. What's to stop something similar from happening and Mexico asking to have a referendum for parts of California and NM and Arizona to be repatriated to Mexico.

So lets see, what does Mexico have to gain.


----------



## Slippy

The Resister said:


> What does Mexico have to gain, allowing Muslims to enter the U.S. for terrorist activities when so much of Mexico is represented in the U.S. Are you saying that the Mexicans would bite the hand that feeds them? Are you claiming that Hispanics are so far below the rest of the world that they would kill their own relatives just to spite the likes of you?


Resister,
The Mexican Federal Government has nothing to gain. However, I believe that damn near everyone in the Mexican government is easily bought. While the Mexican government may not sanction muslim's entering Mexico then the US via the Southern Border, individual Mexican's in position of power can be bribed by Al Queda and others.


----------



## Notsoyoung

Gee, sounds like someone wants open borders and believes that ILLEGAL aliens have an unalienable right to be here. They don't, and the idea of open borders is idiotic.


----------



## inceptor

Actually there is money to be made. Especially by those who run them across the border. For the avg illegal I heard on the news they pay around 6k per person. I imagine our friendly neighborhood terrorist is willing to pay a whole lot more. It's all about the money.


----------



## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> Gee, sounds like someone wants open borders and believes that ILLEGAL aliens have an unalienable right to be here. They don't, and the idea of open borders is idiotic.


I can't wait to hear your take on *unalienable* Rights. So, you don't believe in *unalienable* Rights? Let's stop the pretentious bullshit for once, Notsosmart and focus on the facts. You attack me for believing in *unalienable* Rights, so let's separate the issues and let you go at it. Forget borders for once and focus on *unalienable* Rights. You have a problem with them, don't you? Isn't that the reason you changed the subject and want to talk about "_open borders_" as opposed to what Mexico has to gain by allowing the Muslims an opportunity to attack us.

Besides, nobody answered the questions I had. How come you suppose Al Queada or someone of that philosophical mindset did not attack us when our troops were beating the crap out of So Damn Insane... or whatever his name was?

For once, let's focus on what it is you really want to sell.


----------



## SARGE7402

The Resister said:


> I can't wait to hear your take on *unalienable* Rights. So, you don't believe in *unalienable* Rights? Let's stop the pretentious bullshit for once, Notsosmart and focus on the facts. You attack me for believing in *unalienable* Rights, so let's separate the issues and let you go at it. Forget borders for once and focus on *unalienable* Rights. You have a problem with them, don't you? Isn't that the reason you changed the subject and want to talk about "_open borders_" as opposed to what Mexico has to gain by allowing the Muslims an opportunity to attack us.
> 
> Besides, nobody answered the questions I had. How come you suppose Al Queada or someone of that philosophical mindset did not attack us when our troops were beating the crap out of So Damn Insane... or whatever his name was?
> 
> For once, let's focus on what it is you really want to sell.


Boy oh boy. We seem to be a bit testy today. Let's get something straight. You are the individual who made mention of our long history of open borders. You seem to have no problem with that.

And you are right everybody has those unalienable rights. Only problem is they don't have that right to be here in the USofA. They want the same rights we have stay home fight your own government and take them the way we did. And I mean stay home.

America did have an open immigration policy as long as there was a lot of land to go around. But about the time we got to 100 Million folks some folks in Congress didn't much like the folks wanting to come here and tightened up the Immigration Laws.

Now from what we hear from you, is these poor folks don't pose any threat to our way of life.

Horse poop. Come here to Northern Virginia and I'll show you a CVS where English is the second language.

And between the drug cartel thugs, the Hispanic Gangs and the Muslim extremists, it seems like there's right at 80 to 100,000 violent thugs on our soil. If that's not an invasion, I don't know what is.

And you can take all the cheap shots at Notso, me and the others, but we're not the ones saying we should leave the borders open. We're not the ones saying these folks pose no threat - and we haven't begun to get a firm handle on the medical issues.

From your positions on this matter, it almost seems like you are out there trying to sell BHO's agenda; or is it Mexico's agenda you are trying to sell.

Come on fess up who are you rooting for?


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Boy oh boy. We seem to be a bit testy today. Let's get something straight. You are the individual who made mention of our long history of open borders. You seem to have no problem with that.
> 
> And you are right everybody has those unalienable rights. Only problem is they don't have that right to be here in the USofA. They want the same rights we have stay home fight your own government and take them the way we did. And I mean stay home.
> 
> America did have an open immigration policy as long as there was a lot of land to go around. But about the time we got to 100 Million folks some folks in Congress didn't much like the folks wanting to come here and tightened up the Immigration Laws.
> 
> Now from what we hear from you, is these poor folks don't pose any threat to our way of life.
> 
> Horse poop. Come here to Northern Virginia and I'll show you a CVS where English is the second language.
> 
> And between the drug cartel thugs, the Hispanic Gangs and the Muslim extremists, it seems like there's right at 80 to 100,000 violent thugs on our soil. If that's not an invasion, I don't know what is.
> 
> And you can take all the cheap shots at Notso, me and the others, but we're not the ones saying we should leave the borders open. We're not the ones saying these folks pose no threat - and we haven't begun to get a firm handle on the medical issues.
> 
> From your positions on this matter, it almost seems like you are out there trying to sell BHO's agenda; or is it Mexico's agenda you are trying to sell.
> 
> Come on fess up who are you rooting for?


Who am I rooting for? That's about the only question you've asked that is relevant. It's a good one. We should have a thread aimed at "_open borders_" and see if you can stay on point.

I'm a strict Constructionist / constitutionalist. I am rooting for those people who believe in the fundamental principles upon which this country was founded. One of those positions is simply this:

"_We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain *unalienable* Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness_.." (an excerpt from the Declaration of Independence)

This country was founded upon the principle that all people were born with a natural Right to Liberty. It is one of those foundational principles that led to this country becoming the greatest nation in the annals of recorded history. Our Creator (our God, whomever we deem that to be) bestowed upon every person *unalienable* Rights.

When we remove the facade that you and Notso hide behind, we find a couple of scared, paranoid people that have invested too much time buying into political propaganda. Barack Obama wants the same thing you do... not what I want. You are the one hiding behind the system and giving the benefit of the doubt to the system each and every time there is a controversy. You lobby day and night for a complete and total dependence on a government / God. That's one reason you have to change* every* statement I make *180 degrees opposite* so as to make it say exactly what I absolutely did not say. That makes you feel important on this board, but it isn't honest, so you question my loyalties and my motives along with who I support.

*You* have no problem with the Muslims provided they enter the U.S. the way you think the liberal Democrats (who crafted the current immigration laws) say is the _"right_" way while presuming to dictate to a wide segment of America who they may or may not associate with. You only pretend to be on the side of constitutionalists because you know that what you back is nothing but *LIES*. That's all you have and it's all you're ever going to have. You cannot reconcile foundational principles, history, and even reality so you have put me in your crosshairs. It's not a nice place to be, but sooner or later, a few people here and there will wonder how it is YOU end up parroting Barack Obama's agenda while accusing me of it and the Democrats have more of a problem with me than they have with the Tea Party and change agents such as yourself.

The reality is, you and your supporters believe that people like you are God and man gets his Liberty from the benevolence of cops and politicians. That and that alone is what this boils down to. Insofar as "_open borders_" are concerned, they are a reality of which you cannot escape. America became the greatest nation in the annals of history by supporting the notion that every human being is entitled to Liberty while you believe Liberty is a by-product of citizenship. So, let's cut through the shit here:

The Fourteenth Amendment being illegally ratified, blacks cannot be citizens; therefore, they too are not entitled to Liberty under your interpretation of law. Well, at least you and I have one thing in common: Not everybody can be a citizen. *You* choose to play semantics. You like to point to "millions" of Visas that foreigners can apply for, but won't tell the TRUTH and say it: There may be Visas for the family members of Americans, Visas for students, Visas for temporary seasonal workers, Visas for scientists, doctors and specially skilled people... but, for laborers from south of the border - well they barely exist. So, you want to exclude people for any reason or non-reason, whether it sticks or not.

The reality is, they are coming. Build your silly ass wall; they'll dig tunnels. The United States Supreme Court will rule you cannot keep families apart (it clearly violates that 14th Amendment.) You already know this, but you* LIE* and you *LIE* without a conscience. You do it to lead people into further ignorance and blindness. You know, without any question, that *I DO NOT FAVOR MAKING CITIZENS OUT OF EVERY TOM, SLICK AND HARRY THAT WASHES UP ON OUR SHORES*. That way I don't have to worry that they will some day rise up and vote us out of power. Citizenship and *unalienable* Rights are two completely different things. You know it, but you *LIE* and when you respond, you will *LIE*.

Whose side am I on? I'm hoping to be on God's side. Thanks for asking.


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## SARGE7402

This country was founded upon the principle that all people were born with a natural Right to Liberty. It is one of those foundational principles that led to this country becoming the greatest nation in the annals of recorded history. Our Creator (our God, whomever we deem that to be) bestowed upon every person unalienable Rights.
Hey Bud get off your high horse. I agree with you. There’s nothing to say they have any right to get those perks here in the USofA. 

we find a couple of scared, paranoid people that have invested too much time buying into political propaganda.
Don’t know where you get this idea that Notos and I are scared or paranoid. In fact it sounds just the opposite.
You are the one hiding behind the system and giving the benefit of the doubt to the system each and every time there is a controversy
I’m guessing the system that you are talking about is the one that the Constitution set up. You keep complaining about illegal this and illegitimate that; that certain amendments are not valid. Seems to me you’re the one that is constantly saying that our system of government – set up within the frame work of the constitution – is invalid and evil. Now I’m sorry I’m not hiding behind the Constitution claiming that everything set up IAW it is bad. Seems like you are.
you have to change every statement I make 180 degrees opposite so as to make it say exactly what I absolutely did not say.
I”ve always made darned sure that I copied your statements – more like ravings – exactly as you wrote them. If you have a problem remembering what you wrote perhaps you should keep copies for references. 
You have no problem with the Muslims provided they enter the U.S. the way you think the liberal Democrats (who crafted the current immigration laws) say is the "right" way
Pay attention there short one. I don’t have any problem with anyone that enters the USof A legally. However, I do have a problem with Radical Islam, Just like I have a problem with radical Militias; Radical Blacks. And Radical = those that would overthrow the legitimate Government of these United States. 
You cannot reconcile foundational principles, history, and even reality so you have put me in your crosshairs
Don’t flatter yourself about us targeting you. It’s more like you insist on jumping in front of the bus.

The Fourteenth Amendment being illegally ratified, blacks cannot be citizens; therefore, they too are not entitled to Liberty under your interpretation of law
So now Blacks can not be citizens. Isn’t that one of the basic tenants of the White Supremacists or the KKK. I’ve read the 14th Amendment and how it came to be. As far as being illegally ratified, seems that the courts have ruled time and again in it’s favor.

but, for laborers from south of the border - well they barely exist.
We exclude all low skill labor regardless of what country they come from. Sorry you’re not going to play the racist card on me. And remember it wasn’t south of the border that immigration was first targeted towards but Asians.
You already know this, but you LIE and you LIE without a conscience. You do it to lead people into further ignorance and blindness
Resister: I don’t lie. I don’t mislead. 
The only reason for your rant is that what was posted before destroyed your arguments for why we should just sit back and take our medicine like good little boys and girls. We should never challenge what the great resister says cause his word is gospel and to be believed at all costs.
You’re a little man with a big soap box and every time someone dares to disagree with you out come your little claws and your little tantrums and your hate.
Resister you need to get some help there buddy or one of these days they’re going to have to take you to Milledgeville.


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## The Resister

One has to hand it to SARGE. He is the most misleading, lying individual on this board. If he so desires to quote me, he should do so in a manner that does not require readers to try and figure out when HE is talking and when he is supposedly quoting me. Let me show the omnipotent SARGE an example of how to do this. SARGE wrote in an earlier post:

"_Now from what we hear from you, is these poor folks don't pose any threat to our way of life_."

Now, see how that quote is separated from my own words AND it is in quotation marks AND it is in italics so you cannot mistake who said what. I quote him there because SARGE just told you a whopper of a LIE.

What I've said is this:

The Tea Party type of anti - immigrants try to frame their complaints about foreigners so as to come up with a solution that only big government and an absolute POLICE STATE can fix. Then, as a result, the anti - immigrants have to LIE in order to obscure the truth. SARGE is a master at it. He's good... until you look behind his smoke and mirrors show. That's what's really behind his _"little man_" allegations. See, he cannot make a case without offending people and making snide remarks. So, what is the truth?

Just because those on the low end of the economic scale do not see any profit from cheap foreign labor does not mean it's not good for our economy. The last time we deported all the Hispanic laborers, the unemployment doubled *and* it never went back to the level it was in our nation's history. SARGE cannot overcome that small fact, regardless of what he tries to call me or say about me. He cannot deal with the FACTS.

So, does that mean foreigners are good for this country? Where is the evidence that I claimed such a thing? You mean the Muslims can wage a war against us and it's acceptable that they become citizens just because they complied with citizenship laws crafted by liberal Democrats? It would appear that SARGE needs to get his head out of his ass if he wants a serious discussion of the subject matter and IF he's sincere in saving this country.

Finally, with regard to the 14th Amendment:

SARGE is a proponent of treating one class of people different from the other classes. He should take a stand today. *IF* he supports the 14th Amendment, and his words falsely accusing me of being a part of his Ku Klux Klan organization, then HE has a bigger problem than what I've said.

Part of the reason the deport the Mexicans idea won't work is that it violates the 14th Amendment. Current immigration laws discriminate against temporary laborers from south of the border. For all the Visas out there, they don't fit any of the categories AND the Visa system presumes that everybody wants to become a citizen.


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## inceptor

Even Ray Stevens has something to say about this.


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## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> I can't wait to hear your take on *unalienable* Rights. So, you don't believe in *unalienable* Rights? Let's stop the pretentious bullshit for once, Notsosmart and focus on the facts. You attack me for believing in *unalienable* Rights, so let's separate the issues and let you go at it. Forget borders for once and focus on *unalienable* Rights. You have a problem with them, don't you? Isn't that the reason you changed the subject and want to talk about "_open borders_" as opposed to what Mexico has to gain by allowing the Muslims an opportunity to attack us.
> 
> Besides, nobody answered the questions I had. How come you suppose Al Queada or someone of that philosophical mindset did not attack us when our troops were beating the crap out of So Damn Insane... or whatever his name was?
> 
> For once, let's focus on what it is you really want to sell.


I do NOT believe unalienable rights means that anyone who wants has the right to come into our country whether they obey our laws or not. That makes as much sense as saying that anyone who wants has the right to come into my house whether I want them to or not.


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## SARGE7402

To refute Mr. R. Claim that deportation of illegals resulted in high unemployment. A Review Of Past Recessions

Funny thing none of the recessions - i.e. high unemployment - was tied to deportation of illegals.

Course R will claim that I'm lying again, or twisting his words or some such thing.

But I think we can all see R's position on a number of items.

Blacks don't deserve to be citizens because of the illegal passage of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

He does not favor the US Government securing our borders.

He feels that the poor of Mexico and other southern countries deserve special treatment.


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## Inor

SARGE7402 said:


> To refute Mr. R. Claim that deportation of illegals resulted in high unemployment. A Review Of Past Recessions
> 
> Funny thing none of the recessions - i.e. high unemployment - was tied to deportation of illegals.
> 
> Course R will claim that I'm lying again, or twisting his words or some such thing.
> 
> But I think we can all see R's position on a number of items.
> 
> Blacks don't deserve to be citizens because of the illegal passage of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.
> 
> He does not favor the US Government securing our borders.
> 
> He feels that the poor of Mexico and other southern countries deserve special treatment.


You have to be an anti-lawyer to understand it. You are obviously not, so you are not smart enough to discuss this topic. Why don't you go get some anti-lawyer training then come back and we'll talk, :lol:


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## SARGE7402

Inor said:


> You have to be an anti-lawyer to understand it. You are obviously not, so you are not smart enough to discuss this topic. Why don't you go get some anti-lawyer training then come back and we'll talk, :lol:


You're probably right.

I keep thinking that one day he will begin to think logically


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## machinejjh

I see we're still allowing Resister (see, I spelled it right) to bang his worn, tired drum. Although I do see some merit to a few of his points, it is easily outweighed by those I find fault with. I think, however, once he learns he isn't the be all, end all on the subject (or any subject, really), we may be able to hammer out something worthwhile. We are all in this boat, we're all sinking, and he's debating the merits of the damn lifeboat.


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## SARGE7402

You are right R does have one or two valid points, but it still doesn't address the problem.

there are in excess of 5 million aliens here illegally.

Their kinfolk are still coming.

Those coming are being robbed, beaten, raped, mislead and abandoned to die in the northern Mexico Desert.

Mexico and the current USofA administration are not doing their jobs to reduce the flow of illegals.

Those coming are of dubious virtue.

Those coming are seriously ill with diseases we don't see here on the scale seen across the border.

It's not time for immigration reform. If 750 US agents could return over 1 million illegals in a single year, then the 80 thousand ICE/Border Patrol should be able to pick up and return every illegal alien currently here in under a year. The problem is that no one has tried to do the job.

And as for building a fence and keeping folks out the south koreans have been doing right well for the last forty or so years.

So if they can do it, why can't we.


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## Notsoyoung

As someone who has spent some time at a guard post on the Korean DMZ I can say that a fence is NOT enough. It also takes men along that fence line to make sure people don't go over, under, or through the fence. People who keep saying "see, fences don't work" leave out the part that there aren't enough Border Patrol agents to make sure that people don't come over it. It can be done, and whatever it costs it will be cheaper then what these ILLEGAL aliens are now or will be costing us. The cost aside, every Country in the World worth the name controls it's border, and it is the law. 

Something else to bear in mind, these tens of thousands of kids, many with diseases such as measles, chicken pox, foot and mouth disease, scabies, TB, and even leprosy are being shipped all around the country WITHOUT medical screening other then being asked if they feel sick, will start going to public schools with other children in a couple of months. If a public school refuses to let them in because of a lack of immunizations they run the risk of the DOJ coming down on them, or the ILLEGALS have a history of obtaining false documentation, so why not fake immunization records. Think about THAT before sending your kids off to school.


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## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> Who am I rooting for? That's about the only question you've asked that is relevant. It's a good one. We should have a thread aimed at "_open borders_" and see if you can stay on point.
> 
> I'm a strict Constructionist / constitutionalist. I am rooting for those people who believe in the fundamental principles upon which this country was founded. One of those positions is simply this:
> 
> "_We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain *unalienable* Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness_.." (an excerpt from the Declaration of Independence)
> 
> This country was founded upon the principle that all people were born with a natural Right to Liberty. It is one of those foundational principles that led to this country becoming the greatest nation in the annals of recorded history. Our Creator (our God, whomever we deem that to be) bestowed upon every person *unalienable* Rights.
> 
> When we remove the facade that you and Notso hide behind, we find a couple of scared, paranoid people that have invested too much time buying into political propaganda. Barack Obama wants the same thing you do... not what I want. You are the one hiding behind the system and giving the benefit of the doubt to the system each and every time there is a controversy. You lobby day and night for a complete and total dependence on a government / God. That's one reason you have to change* every* statement I make *180 degrees opposite* so as to make it say exactly what I absolutely did not say. That makes you feel important on this board, but it isn't honest, so you question my loyalties and my motives along with who I support.
> 
> *You* have no problem with the Muslims provided they enter the U.S. the way you think the liberal Democrats (who crafted the current immigration laws) say is the _"right_" way while presuming to dictate to a wide segment of America who they may or may not associate with. You only pretend to be on the side of constitutionalists because you know that what you back is nothing but *LIES*. That's all you have and it's all you're ever going to have. You cannot reconcile foundational principles, history, and even reality so you have put me in your crosshairs. It's not a nice place to be, but sooner or later, a few people here and there will wonder how it is YOU end up parroting Barack Obama's agenda while accusing me of it and the Democrats have more of a problem with me than they have with the Tea Party and change agents such as yourself.
> 
> The reality is, you and your supporters believe that people like you are God and man gets his Liberty from the benevolence of cops and politicians. That and that alone is what this boils down to. Insofar as "_open borders_" are concerned, they are a reality of which you cannot escape. America became the greatest nation in the annals of history by supporting the notion that every human being is entitled to Liberty while you believe Liberty is a by-product of citizenship. So, let's cut through the shit here:
> 
> The Fourteenth Amendment being illegally ratified, blacks cannot be citizens; therefore, they too are not entitled to Liberty under your interpretation of law. Well, at least you and I have one thing in common: Not everybody can be a citizen. *You* choose to play semantics. You like to point to "millions" of Visas that foreigners can apply for, but won't tell the TRUTH and say it: There may be Visas for the family members of Americans, Visas for students, Visas for temporary seasonal workers, Visas for scientists, doctors and specially skilled people... but, for laborers from south of the border - well they barely exist. So, you want to exclude people for any reason or non-reason, whether it sticks or not.
> 
> The reality is, they are coming. Build your silly ass wall; they'll dig tunnels. The United States Supreme Court will rule you cannot keep families apart (it clearly violates that 14th Amendment.) You already know this, but you* LIE* and you *LIE* without a conscience. You do it to lead people into further ignorance and blindness. You know, without any question, that *I DO NOT FAVOR MAKING CITIZENS OUT OF EVERY TOM, SLICK AND HARRY THAT WASHES UP ON OUR SHORES*. That way I don't have to worry that they will some day rise up and vote us out of power. Citizenship and *unalienable* Rights are two completely different things. You know it, but you *LIE* and when you respond, you will *LIE*.
> 
> Whose side am I on? I'm hoping to be on God's side. Thanks for asking.


"Scared and paranoid" people? Big talk from a little man who has tried to form his own army of other delusional clowns who run around in cheap cammo and keep telling each other what a bunch of bad asses they are, if only in their own minds. One of the things the both Sarge and I have in common is that we HAVE been a real Army and have been in real war zones, unlike a poser like you.

The Declaration of Independence does not give ANYONE the right to break our immigration laws and come into our country ILLEGALLY. ON previously posts you have constantly referred to rulings of Federal Courts. Not ONE Federal court has ever ruled that ILLEGAL aliens have an unalienable right to be here. Not only that, but not one group has ever been stupid enough to try to bring it to a Federal court, or if they have they were laughed out of the courtroom.

Obama is asking for nearly 4 billion dollars just to deal with these folks flooding across our borders, never mind the 11 million already here. A large percentage, a very large percentage, in our prisons are ILLEGAL aliens. Much of our gang violence involves ILLEGAL aliens. Go to any emergency room of a hospital in the U.S. and see how many of the people in them are ILLEGALS. I have 2 sisters who are nurses who work in E.R's and they can attest to that. See how many people who are in government housing are ILLEGALS. See how many ILLEGALS are on food stamps. They are NOT a benefit to our society.


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## Denton

Resister, you do realize we understand what you are saying, right? You also understand that nations have borders for a reason, and that nations are to protect those borders for the reasons outlined time and again.

I don't think you are going to win a single person over to your side with your tactics. If anything, you are hardening other positions. 

Regardless of your stated (and stated, and stated) position, we understand that what is being choreographed at the border has nothing to do with constitutional law, the people pouring over the border knows nothing of constitutional law, and the agenda in play has everything to do with the destruction of the remnants of the illusion of rule by the constitution.


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## omegabrock

SARGE7402 said:


> ...everybody has those unalienable rights. Only problem is they don't have that right to be here in the USofA. They want the same rights we have stay home fight your own government and take them the way we did.


this *should* end the debate about open borders...

brb, reading why the debate isnt over yet


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> Resister, you do realize we understand what you are saying, right? You also understand that nations have borders for a reason, and that nations are to protect those borders for the reasons outlined time and again.
> 
> I don't think you are going to win a single person over to your side with your tactics. If anything, you are hardening other positions.
> 
> Regardless of your stated (and stated, and stated) position, we understand that what is being choreographed at the border has nothing to do with constitutional law, the people pouring over the border knows nothing of constitutional law, and the agenda in play has everything to do with the destruction of the remnants of the illusion of rule by the constitution.


I get a few, albeit a few, people who disagree with you and the Cheering Section. And *NO*, you don't know where I stand on the issue. The only thing you see is the choir playing the same tune, ignoring the one person who is asking why they continue to play that death rattle while following the liberals down the road to tyranny. All you see is imaginary points of the left because you're afraid to open your damn eyes and your mind. The mind is like a parachute. It only works when open.

You listen to this mindless chatter that "_they_" (meaning the Hispanics) "_don't belong here_." They don't? Why not? If Mr. Employer has a job that he wants to offer to a foreigner, how come you claim he has to give it to an American? Aren't we in America? Isn't the employer who created the job entitled to give it to whomever he chooses? If a landlord rents to a foreigner, it's the owner's house, right? OR are you now contending that the government owns and controls private property? I mean, quit being so chickenshit for once and answer the freaking questions. When the government owns and controls production and labor, isn't that the quintessential definition of socialism? Oh, but they don't belong here. Right. Rosa Parks disobeyed an unconstitutional law and now we have blacks not only on the front of the bus, but they own the damn things. Right?

Denton, you're taking the side of people that loathe and despise Liberty. The United States Supreme Court has opined:

"_The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land. The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land, and any statue, to be valid, must be in agreement. It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail. This is succinctly stated as follows:

The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it.

An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.

Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principals follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it . . .

A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one.

An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law.

Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the land, it is superseded thereby. _ *No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it*."

-- Sixteenth American Jurisprudence, Second Edition, Section 177. (late 2nd Ed. Section 256)

Tell me you understand that *NO ONE* (they did not say citizens), but* NO ONE* is obligated to obey an unconstitutional law. If America is this great freaking "_house_" (as used in the analogy), then citizens OTHER THAN SARGE, NOTSO... AND YOU should have an equal say since they pay the mortgage (taxes, if you missed that analogy), should they not? And, since the employers, the landlords and the people who voluntarily do business with foreigners, how come you never answer why the *RIGHTS* of those people are not equally protected as yours are?

Having been in this for many decades, I offered to solve the issue. Create a Guest Worker program with no automatic path to citizenship and move the hell on. But, Nooooo. "_They don't belong here_." Why? Because SARGE and Notso... say so? You've been very coy up until now, Denton. Are you telling me that those who willingly do business with the foreigners don't have the Right to associate with whomever they damn well choose? And are you saying that you support unconstitutional laws that stifle the free market?

It would be different* IF* there were some program that applied to the ten plus million foreigners that don't have the human registration papers. It don't exist. I'd be a ****ing millionaire if such a program / Visa / "in" existed. Are you as dumb as the xenophobes? Are you really? You think people put the equivalent of four months pay into the hands of a human trafficker where they risk being beaten, robbed, killed or forced to be a drug mule AND cross terrain that would intimidate a United States Marine if all they had to do were fill out some freaking papers?

Oh, but "_they don't belong here_." The Muslims, who will convert or kill you, can come... they have money and are welcome because the liberals created a Leeeeeggggguuuulll way for them to enter. What if I say they can't come because "_they don't belong here_?"

SARGE and the Cheering Section talk out both sides of their mouths. The trouble is, both the Republicans AND the Democrats have said they will not deport millions back across the border. Mark my words, the United States Supreme Court will not allow a mass deportation of undocumented workers who have a valid Taxpayer Identification Number, pay the unconstitutional income tax and obey the laws. It's not my opinion that the immigration laws are civil laws; they are. So, you won't get "_criminals_" out of undocumented workers. You can curse, swear, and call me every name in the book. It WILL play out the way I'm telling you. So, you damn well better have a back up plan. The current idea, either way, will include a pathway to citizenship. And if you think I've been an asshole, wait until you get 10 million more voting Democrats to feed that horseshit to. Then, tell them that we're a nation founded upon Liberty, but you have to kiss the ass of some politician to get your Rights.


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## Denton

Yeah, and you are certain I loathe liberty, yet ignore the points made. As your beloved immigrants are going to be used asI suggested.

Yes, you are right. You are always incredibly right, and that which you choose to ignore is meaningless.

Please, may I have one of your poignant insults so that I may learn my lesson?


----------



## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> "Scared and paranoid" people? Big talk from a little man who has tried to form his own army of other delusional clowns who run around in cheap cammo and keep telling each other what a bunch of bad asses they are, if only in their own minds. One of the things the both Sarge and I have in common is that we HAVE been a real Army and have been in real war zones, unlike a poser like you.
> 
> The Declaration of Independence does not give ANYONE the right to break our immigration laws and come into our country ILLEGALLY. ON previously posts you have constantly referred to rulings of Federal Courts. Not ONE Federal court has ever ruled that ILLEGAL aliens have an unalienable right to be here. Not only that, but not one group has ever been stupid enough to try to bring it to a Federal court, or if they have they were laughed out of the courtroom.
> 
> Obama is asking for nearly 4 billion dollars just to deal with these folks flooding across our borders, never mind the 11 million already here. A large percentage, a very large percentage, in our prisons are ILLEGAL aliens. Much of our gang violence involves ILLEGAL aliens. Go to any emergency room of a hospital in the U.S. and see how many of the people in them are ILLEGALS. I have 2 sisters who are nurses who work in E.R's and they can attest to that. See how many people who are in government housing are ILLEGALS. See how many ILLEGALS are on food stamps. They are NOT a benefit to our society.


I will only dignify your absolute rubbish with this response because you need to be spanked yet again:

I don't own any "_cheap cammo_" and I don't run around "_playing army_." Notsosmart, the only "war zone" you've ever seen is some silly video game. Now, let's move on:

You have not been able to answer a simple question, so let me ask you again:

IF immigration were unlawful or illegal (sic) as you claim, *WHY DID CONGRESS INTRODUCE A BILL TO CHANGE THE WORDING OF THE LAW WE'VE DEBATED SINCE I CAME ON THIS BOARD*? *IF* it's illegal, why do you have to change the wording of the law and include it in Title 18 (where there is no "crime" of "illegal entry???"

It's not, son. It won't be no matter if every swinging dick on this board says otherwise. It isn't... and since it isn't, you have to have a back up plan just in case I'm right and you're wrong - which you are. The choices will end up being fighting a fight you can't sustain or simply accepting forced citizenship for those 10 million undocumented workers. OR, you could use your freaking brain and settle for Guest Workers with no automatic path to citizenship... then figure out how to reduce the size, power and scope of government. If you got rid of the freebies ( a "free education" for example), and the Guest Workers did not vote, why would they want to keep staying?

Ignore my questions and I promise they will be citizens just after the next president is sworn in, if not, before.


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## jro1




----------



## The Resister

To the balance of you reading this:

If the anti - immigrant lobby wants me to support them, then they need to answer my questions. They live on fear and feed off of paranoia. The real problem we face is that the Guest Workers *ARE* economically profitable.

Laws are already in place so that those without papers cannot get welfare for the most part. There are few exceptions. Most of those here without the human registration papers DO have a Taxpayer Identification Number, pay the taxes and obey the laws. Of the 10 million, the Socialist Security Administration estimates the number to be around 75 percent of undocumented foreigners.

*WHEN* citizenship is offered, those who cop to having lived here for a time period (my best guess would be a year or two) and have their Taxpayer Identification Number, paid the taxes and have no criminal record will be afforded citizenship. In the Hispanic community, there are a number of programs that teach this and keep the Hispanic community in the loop and help them abide by all the laws so that they will become citizens.

If I have to do a short lesson in economics from a businessman's perspective, I can accommodate you and prove, unequivocally, that Guest Workers are a net profit for this country. It might not be the case for you, but as a nation...


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> Yeah, and you are certain I loathe liberty, yet ignore the points made. As your beloved immigrants are going to be used asI suggested.
> 
> Yes, you are right. You are always incredibly right, and that which you choose to ignore is meaningless.
> 
> Please, may I have one of your poignant insults so that I may learn my lesson?


You haven't made a point yet. Furthermore, you did not answer the questions. Let's start there.


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## Denton

You can't read? Guess not, as I have made points.
You are correct that I have asked you no questions.
Start wherever.


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> You can't read? Guess not, as I have made points.
> You are correct that I have asked you no questions.
> Start wherever.


The only thing you've remotely made is mistakenly thinking that you know what I'm talking about... Like I can cram thirty years of experience into a few posts. My library contains 1600 plus books. I've read most of them. The other possible point is that you think I should give up and kiss SARGE's royal ass. Now, did I miss something?

You know, contrary to what the gruesome twosome have you believing, I'm not claiming that I'm always right, but if I'm wrong, somebody is going to have to go somewhere we didn't go in the think tanks I participated in over the years. It ain't on this thread, sir.


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## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> I will only dignify your absolute rubbish with this response because you need to be spanked yet again:
> 
> I don't own any "_cheap cammo_" and I don't run around "_playing army_." Notsosmart, the only "war zone" you've ever seen is some silly video game. Now, let's move on:
> 
> You have not been able to answer a simple question, so let me ask you again:
> 
> IF immigration were unlawful or illegal (sic) as you claim, *WHY DID CONGRESS INTRODUCE A BILL TO CHANGE THE WORDING OF THE LAW WE'VE DEBATED SINCE I CAME ON THIS BOARD*? *IF* it's illegal, why do you have to change the wording of the law and include it in Title 18 (where there is no "crime" of "illegal entry???"
> 
> It's not, son. It won't be no matter if every swinging dick on this board says otherwise. It isn't... and since it isn't, you have to have a back up plan just in case I'm right and you're wrong - which you are. The choices will end up being fighting a fight you can't sustain or simply accepting forced citizenship for those 10 million undocumented workers. OR, you could use your freaking brain and settle for Guest Workers with no automatic path to citizenship... then figure out how to reduce the size, power and scope of government. If you got rid of the freebies ( a "free education" for example), and the Guest Workers did not vote, why would they want to keep staying?
> 
> Ignore my questions and I promise they will be citizens just after the next president is sworn in, if not, before.


You don't run around in cheap cammo playing army? Sorry, I thought one of your "big" claim to fame was belonging to some wannabe militia group. 
As for me, I did my 20 years in the U.S. Army, and I have been to war zones.

As for some bill introduced into Congress and why they did it, WHO KNOWS. Maybe it was attached to a bill making it national turnip day. Hardly a winning argument.

The Federal Government does consider them ILLEGAL aliens. http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_09-15_Jan09.pdf
Notice the phrase ILLEGAL in the title of that government pamphlet? Have a reading comprehension problem?

I AM NOT YOUR SON. Frankly I doubt that you are capable of fathering children, and I am over 5 feet tall.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> The only thing you've remotely made is mistakenly thinking that you know what I'm talking about... Like I can cram thirty years of experience into a few posts. My library contains 1600 plus books. I've read most of them. The other possible point is that you think I should give up and kiss SARGE's royal ass. Now, did I miss something?
> 
> You know, contrary to what the gruesome twosome have you believing, I'm not claiming that I'm always right, but if I'm wrong, somebody is going to have to go somewhere we didn't go in the think tanks I participated in over the years. It ain't on this thread, sir.


You, Jimmy, are one arrogant ass that is on a self-serving agenda. You can take your thirty years and shove them. You believe you are the most intelligent and most educated, and therefore worthy of insulting others. You are none of those. It is clear why you are here. You'd not dare try this crap in anyone's face. You are a punk, a distraction, and a troll. You look to derail any related topic with your same, l8ngwinded crap. You care nothing 8f the condition of the nation; you are nothing more than a La Raza supporter hiding behind parts of U.S. law.


----------



## Denton

You couldn't cram 30 grains of rice in the space your brain fills. Now, may your body sue your brain, as you say.


----------



## SARGE7402

The Resister said:


> The only thing you've remotely made is mistakenly thinking that you know what I'm talking about... Like I can cram thirty years of experience into a few posts. My library contains 1600 plus books. I've read most of them. The other possible point is that you think I should give up and kiss SARGE's royal ass. Now, did I miss something?
> 
> You know, contrary to what the gruesome twosome have you believing, I'm not claiming that I'm always right, but if I'm wrong, somebody is going to have to go somewhere we didn't go in the think tanks I participated in over the years. It ain't on this thread, sir.


First lets get one thing perfectly clear. Sarge does not have a royal ass, It stinks just like everyone elses does.

And no no matter how you plead and say you're sorry You don't get to kiss it.


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> The only thing you've remotely made is mistakenly thinking that you know what I'm talking about... Like I can cram thirty years of experience into a few posts. My library contains 1600 plus books. I've read most of them. The other possible point is that you think I should give up and kiss SARGE's royal ass. Now, did I miss something?
> 
> You know, contrary to what the gruesome twosome have you believing, I'm not claiming that I'm always right, but if I'm wrong, somebody is going to have to go somewhere we didn't go in the think tanks I participated in over the years. It ain't on this thread, sir.


Really? 1600? What's your favorite, your Archie collection or your Casper collection of "books"?


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## SARGE7402

Denton said:


> You, Jimmy, are one arrogant ass that is on a self-serving agenda. You can take your thirty years and shove them. You believe you are the most intelligent and most educated, and therefore worthy of insulting others. You are none of those. It is clear why you are here. You'd not dare try this crap in anyone's face. You are a punk, a distraction, and a troll. You look to derail any related topic with your same, l8ngwinded crap. You care nothing 8f the condition of the nation; you are nothing more than a La Raza supporter hiding behind parts of U.S. law.


You forgot to add that he sincerely believes that no blackman canbe a us citizen because he says the states illegally ratified the 14th amendment. That would put him right up there with the Knights of the white camelia


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## sparkyprep

Good God. I can't believe the Admin. Hasn't locked this thread yet.


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## SARGE7402

For those that weren't paying attention. U.N. seeking to intervene in U.S. border crisis


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## inceptor

Staying on this thread is like:






Anyone who does not agree with him is stupid and part of the cheering section.

Me, I can't be part of the cheering section, I look horrible in a short skirt. :shock:


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## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> You don't run around in cheap cammo playing army? Sorry, I thought one of your "big" claim to fame was belonging to some wannabe militia group.
> As for me, I did my 20 years in the U.S. Army, and I have been to war zones.
> 
> As for some bill introduced into Congress and why they did it, WHO KNOWS. Maybe it was attached to a bill making it national turnip day. Hardly a winning argument.
> 
> The Federal Government does consider them ILLEGAL aliens. http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIG_09-15_Jan09.pdf
> Notice the phrase ILLEGAL in the title of that government pamphlet? Have a reading comprehension problem?
> 
> I AM NOT YOUR SON. Frankly I doubt that you are capable of fathering children, and I am over 5 feet tall.


My "claim to fame" is damn well not being part of the militia. And, it was not "wannabe." One of the founding members was Lt. Col. (USA retired) Gordon "Jack" Mohr. Mohr was the first American captured during the Korean Conflict. He was beaten and tortured, even sentenced to death, but escaped and returned back to fight yet again. The program we used to train the militia was developed by Lt. Col. James "Bo" Gritz, a former Green Beret and CIA operative. Wannabe? While I had the least military experience of all the officers, the legal experience was complimentary to the training.

Okay, a pamphlet, report or even a financial document is not binding on any court or tribunal. It literally IS NOT LAW.

I ask you again, sir. IF the law means "illegal" WHY DID CONGRESS TRY TO CHANGE THE WORDING OF THE LAW? The facts are, the change was introduced by Tea Party supporter, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, a guy who sees this issue exactly like you do - except he is an attorney and realizes that we've not been dealing with criminal law.


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> You, Jimmy, are one arrogant ass that is on a self-serving agenda. You can take your thirty years and shove them. You believe you are the most intelligent and most educated, and therefore worthy of insulting others. You are none of those. It is clear why you are here. You'd not dare try this crap in anyone's face. You are a punk, a distraction, and a troll. You look to derail any related topic with your same, l8ngwinded crap. You care nothing 8f the condition of the nation; you are nothing more than a La Raza supporter hiding behind parts of U.S. law.


Denton:

I spent ten ****ing years... TEN of them having this discussion in front of audiences, challenging one and all to show me where I have it wrong. I'd love to be, but I'm not. That's the problem. NOBODY ever went head to head with me in public.

How many times have I *BEGGED* the omnipotent SARGE to just say it, give me the challenge, and I'd accommodate. I'd do it for him, but he'd claim I threatened him and they wouldn't let me post. I'm not chickenshit. There isn't a swinging dick among the Tea Party nor the likes of SARGE, his Cheering Section, the so - called "Minutemen" nor their offshoots that has ever met me on a level playing field. Know that.

None of those who spew shit have the courage to meet me in public or anywhere face to face on a level playing field. They, like you, accuse me of being with the ********... but, *NEVER* to my face. The guys you hang with are just like you... blind as hell. First, I'm a white supremacist and the very next moment, one of you accuse me of being La Raza. All it does is to reinforce the truth. You don't understand the issues. Let me give you a small clue:

When the 14th Amendment was ratified, it created two separate and distinct classes of citizens: Fourteenth Amendment citizens and Preamble Citizens. Preamble Citizens retained their God given *unalienable* Rights while those covered under the 14th forfeited their Rights in lieu of privileges and immunities. Further, the 14th makes certain guarantees to persons (as differentiated from citizens only.) This isn't pie in the sky, conspiracy philosophy, but material that was taught even at Harvard. The guys you hang with don't know which citizen they profess to be; don't acknowledge that the people are the legitimate final authority on what the law is; they don't have a clue what the legislators on THEIR side have done and are doing relative to the immigration issue.

It makes me an arrogant ass to keep abreast and to know, factually, what you don't? That's rich.


----------



## pharmer14

The Resister said:


> What does Mexico have to gain, allowing Muslims to enter the U.S. for terrorist activities when so much of Mexico is represented in the U.S.? Are you saying that the Mexicans would bite the hand that feeds them? Are you claiming that Hispanics are so far below the rest of the world that they would kill their own relatives just to spite the likes of you?


You really don't get it do you? It isn't like Mexico is facilitating the problem. They're much like the current administration. They just ignore the problem and hope it either goes away or gets big enough to become a crisis which they'd never let go to waste.


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## pharmer14

The Resister said:


> Besides, nobody answered the questions I had. How come you suppose Al Queada or someone of that philosophical mindset did not attack us when our troops were beating the crap out of So Damn Insane... or whatever his name was?
> 
> For once, let's focus on what it is you really want to sell.


Would you get on a plane and fly to Iraq to shoot somebody if an illegal immigrant broke into your house in the US and was threatening you? I don't think a terrorist would either...

The battle was over there when we invaded Iraq... One of the few Foreign Policy advantages under Bush. We weren't attacked here precisely because the military over there was an easier target than the homeland...


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## pharmer14

The Resister said:


> Barack Obama wants the same thing you do... not what I want.


You heard right folks... Those saying the complete opposite of what the POTUS are saying agree with the POTUS...


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## SARGE7402

*How many times have I BEGGED the omnipotent SARGE to just say it, give me the challenge, and I'd accommodate. I'd do it for him, but he'd claim I threatened him and they wouldn't let me post.*
First why would I waste my time with a loser like you. And for the record, you did threaten me and Notso and a couple of others. You can deny it all you like but I guess that is one thing you are very good at. Not accepting responsibility for your actions. And no none of us are afraid of you in one bit. We just have a few more important things to do that to humor some one like you. Taking a dump is way higher on my to do list than debating with Little Jimmy

*None of those who spew shit have the courage to meet me in public or anywhere face to face on a level playing field.*
What you call Shit is mostly facts that you tend to overlook when they don't support your line of BS. And there's never a level playing field for you. Remember one of your posts where you said you'd have your back covered by your wanna bees.

*They, like you, accuse me of being with the ********.*
So now you throw them under the bus and use the racist terms for them. And for the record we've all called for sending them back which is what the current law requires. Not some dinged up guest worker program.
*First, I'm a white supremacist and the very next moment, one of you accuse me of being La Raza.*
He double hockey sticks - no one ever said you were consistent. You plead the case for those poor folks with no skills from down south (sounds like what LaRaza is ranting about) and the next you say blacks have no right to be called citizens - sure sounds like a Knight of the KKK to me. 
*When the 14th Amendment was ratified, it created two separate and distinct classes of citizens: Fourteenth Amendment citizens and Preamble Citizens. Preamble Citizens retained their God given unalienable Rights while those covered under the 14th forfeited their Rights in lieu of privileges and immunities. Further,*
This is the reason that no one wants to discuss with you in a one on one situation. You argue that everyone has unalienable rights in one post and then the very next one you argue that the 14th made them forfeit them. Now I'm sorry if God give these rights there isn't a man on this planet that can force one to give them up. He can take them from you as in putting two rounds into your brain pan and killing you. But your rights are still there.

It makes me an arrogant ass to keep abreast and to know, factually, what you don't?

No there are several things that make you an arrogant ass. 
Keeping up with facts definitely isn't one of them.
Neither is your Knowledge of the law.
However you constant linking your posts to your own rambling web page that no one really gives a rats ass about does make you one.
And your I've already answered that - as if YOU - not what you base your statements on - but just YOU are the end all authority on every topic that you jump in on.

And Jimmy - there are only One class of American Citizens. And nothing your little tirade or link to some dingbatted kooks web page is going to change that.


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## SARGE7402

pharmer14 said:


> You heard right folks... Those saying the complete opposite of what the POTUS are saying agree with the POTUS...


If you are going to try and make sense out of what Little Jimmy register says, your head is going to hurt.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Denton:
> 
> I spent ten ****ing years... TEN of them having this discussion in front of audiences, challenging one and all to show me where I have it wrong. I'd love to be, but I'm not. That's the problem. NOBODY ever went head to head with me in public.
> 
> How many times have I *BEGGED* the omnipotent SARGE to just say it, give me the challenge, and I'd accommodate. I'd do it for him, but he'd claim I threatened him and they wouldn't let me post. I'm not chickenshit. There isn't a swinging dick among the Tea Party nor the likes of SARGE, his Cheering Section, the so - called "Minutemen" nor their offshoots that has ever met me on a level playing field. Know that.
> 
> None of those who spew shit have the courage to meet me in public or anywhere face to face on a level playing field. They, like you, accuse me of being with the ********... but, *NEVER* to my face. The guys you hang with are just like you... blind as hell. First, I'm a white supremacist and the very next moment, one of you accuse me of being La Raza. All it does is to reinforce the truth. You don't understand the issues. Let me give you a small clue:
> 
> When the 14th Amendment was ratified, it created two separate and distinct classes of citizens: Fourteenth Amendment citizens and Preamble Citizens. Preamble Citizens retained their God given *unalienable* Rights while those covered under the 14th forfeited their Rights in lieu of privileges and immunities. Further, the 14th makes certain guarantees to persons (as differentiated from citizens only.) This isn't pie in the sky, conspiracy philosophy, but material that was taught even at Harvard. The guys you hang with don't know which citizen they profess to be; don't acknowledge that the people are the legitimate final authority on what the law is; they don't have a clue what the legislators on THEIR side have done and are doing relative to the immigration issue.
> 
> It makes me an arrogant ass to keep abreast and to know, factually, what you don't? That's rich.


Yeah, you are all that and a bag of grits. You are something else, Jimmy! Why is it you are not known throughout the entire kingdom? We, the members of this little community of ignorant dumbasses, should feel so grateful that you bother to come here and attempt to enlighten our dumb assses! You are right; we are all blind and you are the only one who can see! I am so glad I am able to understand that!

Mr. Arrogant, you extreme dumbass, the 14th amendment did nothing but place all of us on the plantation.

You don't know what I know, little Jimmy. What I do know is you are nothing but an arrogant little man who hangs out on message boards because your stupid attitude would get your little ass kicked in real life. Here, you feel like a big, arrogant, smart man. You are none, other than the little part.


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## Denton

Jimmy-Do-Less, I don't care what your position on any subject is; you are the worst spokesman for any position.


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## Deebo

I keep trying to avoid this thread, but somehow keep looking at it.
I will state, for the record, that I feel this fiasco is gonna explode. Im talking "purge 3", since purge part two is out. I dont condone violence, but I also feel that America is being over run by ILLEGAL ALIENS. I am all for being a citizen, the right way.
I am AGAINST any person, be them 6 days old, or 60 years old, snaeking into the US, and not being immediately, right then and there, out on a waiting bus and shipped 500 miles back into Mexico.
I have spoken my thoughts, I have seen the thoughts of many people, but i am not gonna read 30 pages.
Can we shift the gears, what is Mexico's status on immigartion, do they have govt programs, do they allow undocumented Americans to invade their country?
If need be, lets start anothre thread?


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## Deebo

And, by the way, we have lost some good members of this forum, due to name calling, cussing, and release of private information, so if needed, lets move this to the "rated R" section, on rants and rave, cussing and discussing.
I dont wanna see anymore people drop off this forum,
MUCH LOVE- Deebo


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## Denton

Deebo said:


> I keep trying to avoid this thread, but somehow keep looking at it.
> I will state, for the record, that I feel this fiasco is gonna explode. Im talking "purge 3", since purge part two is out. I dont condone violence, but I also feel that America is being over run by ILLEGAL ALIENS. I am all for being a citizen, the right way.
> I am AGAINST any person, be them 6 days old, or 60 years old, snaeking into the US, and not being immediately, right then and there, out on a waiting bus and shipped 500 miles back into Mexico.
> I have spoken my thoughts, I have seen the thoughts of many people, but i am not gonna read 30 pages.
> Can we shift the gears, what is Mexico's status on immigartion, do they have govt programs, do they allow undocumented Americans to invade their country?
> If need be, lets start anothre thread?


Mexico, as well as all other sovereign nations, do not tolerate invasion.

This isn't about our laws, as little Jimmy Dumbass would have you believe. This is about the destruction of all pillars of our nation. This about the destruction of America and the formation of a North America, sans the constitution.


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## Denton

The only reason there'd be a need for a new thread is that this one is being hijacked by La Raza. Start another thread, and it will be there to stymie all conversation.


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## Deebo

You, once again, are right. Denton. Check your Pm's. I type slow..


----------



## The Resister

Arklatex said:


> Resister, do you believe that it is OK for an employer to pay an "undocumented worker" in cash without withholding the taxes that Americans pay every week? It's so good for the economy because the employee is willing to work for less than minimum wage! And tax free to boot! Maybe you have never worked construction but I have. I have seen it with my own eyes. Some even get tax returns off of an identety that has been used many thousands of times. Crooked contractors hire these people and pay them by the day in cash instead of hiring a worker the proper way. How does this help anyone other than greedy honchos? No doubt you will dismiss this post and label me one of the so called cheering section. Or you will spout off nonsense about no human is illegal, the 14th ammendment or police state. Is it really beneficial for the American economy to allow employers to hire these people? I think not. Can you answer the questions without demanding I answer a bullshit question about re wording an ancient bill? I think not. The solution to this problem is to hire Americans only. I'm not being xenophobic here, if the Immigrants come into our country properly no problem. It's the sneaking in and working cheap that bothers me.


With respect to your post:

1) Construction - my father owned a construction company. I'm a former Seabee

2) Taxes and immigrants - I went to work in immigration law just to make sure we had the equation right. Just like those who taunt me here, the immigrants shoot guys like you a line of shit. They make you think that they don't pay the unconstitutional taxes, but 75 percent of them DO have a Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the damn taxes.

Your viewpoint does not take into account that immigrants pay property taxes, sales taxes, ad valorem taxes, etc., etc. What your viewpoint tries to insinuate is that the income tax finances ALL government spending. It doesn't. All the income tax does is to pay unconstitutional interest on the federal debt AND pay for the IRS along with the agencies tied to it. Very little finances anything that reaches you, I or the immigrant. What pays for the federal government is the 40 plus cents per gallon on gasoline along with taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, etc.

3) This thread is way to short for a dissertation on economics, but here is *an example... example only*:

If Bubba builds a $100,000 house he charges $75,000 and his profit buys his large truck made in a foreign country and expensive electronic goodies... also bought in a foreign country. I have 75 k in a 100,000 k home.

If Pedro builds the same home, he charges $50,000. So, I now have $25,000 more in equity than I did if Bubba built it. So, I'm richer. I put the money into my IRA that was saved. The bank, because we have fractional reserve banking, can loan out $4 for every dollar they hold in assets. My $25,000 in equity just became $100,000 that a business can borrow for an expansion.

Granted, that transaction may not help you personally to get a job, but it damn sure helped the economy. BTW, the interest I will get off the savings is going to help me in later years to buy things for myself... which in turn, helps the economy. Ultimately, a job is created that you can fill.

You can still get employers to hire Americans over the Hispanics, but you are not going to completely eliminate competition. A couple of years ago, Bernie Marcus (co founder of Home Depot) gave a speech and said that taxes and over-regulation were the reasons business could not expand. What you are asking for does not result in lower taxes OR fewer regulations. The side you're standing on proposes socialistic "solutions" that were preplanned when this crisis was created. Today, the damage is done. It won't matter after this next forced citizenship effort is completed because then EVERY Mexican will have a relative that can get them in the U.S. properly.

The only chance we have of slowing down the process is to put the brakes on citizenship. Don't be afraid to compete against the foreigners. If employers got a tax break equal or greater to the pay difference between Hispanics and Americans, the employer might hire more Americans. This is only an example, not the entire idea. For that I would have to devote a long thread just for the things we'd have to implement.

Addendum: The fake ID angle went out years ago when National ID became law and secondly, IF we created a proper "in" for the Guest Workers, they would not "_sneak_" in. We are at an impasse. Congress will NOT deport 10 million Guest Workers. Each year the controversy goes on, the Guest Workers have children born here that can get them in properly. So, a smart man cuts his losses and cuts off the citizenship angle AND makes competition a reality.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Yeah, you are all that and a bag of grits. You are something else, Jimmy! Why is it you are not known throughout the entire kingdom? We, the members of this little community of ignorant dumbasses, should feel so grateful that you bother to come here and attempt to enlighten our dumb assses! You are right; we are all blind and you are the only one who can see! I am so glad I am able to understand that!
> 
> Mr. Arrogant, you extreme dumbass, the 14th amendment did nothing but place all of us on the plantation.
> 
> You don't know what I know, little Jimmy. What I do know is you are nothing but an arrogant little man who hangs out on message boards because your stupid attitude would get your little ass kicked in real life. Here, you feel like a big, arrogant, smart man. You are none, other than the little part.


Any time you'd like to test that theory, give me a call.


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> *How many times have I BEGGED the omnipotent SARGE to just say it, give me the challenge, and I'd accommodate. I'd do it for him, but he'd claim I threatened him and they wouldn't let me post.*
> First why would I waste my time with a loser like you. And for the record, you did threaten me and Notso and a couple of others. You can deny it all you like but I guess that is one thing you are very good at. Not accepting responsibility for your actions. And no none of us are afraid of you in one bit. We just have a few more important things to do that to humor some one like you. Taking a dump is way higher on my to do list than debating with Little Jimmy
> 
> *None of those who spew shit have the courage to meet me in public or anywhere face to face on a level playing field.*
> What you call Shit is mostly facts that you tend to overlook when they don't support your line of BS. And there's never a level playing field for you. Remember one of your posts where you said you'd have your back covered by your wanna bees.
> 
> *They, like you, accuse me of being with the ********.*
> So now you throw them under the bus and use the racist terms for them. And for the record we've all called for sending them back which is what the current law requires. Not some dinged up guest worker program.
> *First, I'm a white supremacist and the very next moment, one of you accuse me of being La Raza.*
> He double hockey sticks - no one ever said you were consistent. You plead the case for those poor folks with no skills from down south (sounds like what LaRaza is ranting about) and the next you say blacks have no right to be called citizens - sure sounds like a Knight of the KKK to me.
> *When the 14th Amendment was ratified, it created two separate and distinct classes of citizens: Fourteenth Amendment citizens and Preamble Citizens. Preamble Citizens retained their God given unalienable Rights while those covered under the 14th forfeited their Rights in lieu of privileges and immunities. Further,*
> This is the reason that no one wants to discuss with you in a one on one situation. You argue that everyone has unalienable rights in one post and then the very next one you argue that the 14th made them forfeit them. Now I'm sorry if God give these rights there isn't a man on this planet that can force one to give them up. He can take them from you as in putting two rounds into your brain pan and killing you. But your rights are still there.
> 
> It makes me an arrogant ass to keep abreast and to know, factually, what you don't?
> 
> No there are several things that make you an arrogant ass.
> Keeping up with facts definitely isn't one of them.
> Neither is your Knowledge of the law.
> However you constant linking your posts to your own rambling web page that no one really gives a rats ass about does make you one.
> And your I've already answered that - as if YOU - not what you base your statements on - but just YOU are the end all authority on every topic that you jump in on.
> 
> And Jimmy - there are only One class of American Citizens. And nothing your little tirade or link to some dingbatted kooks web page is going to change that.


You are consistent with your bullshit. Lies, lies and you ended with a knowing LIE. You know the deal about citizenship... or you are not who you claim to be.

"_The first clause of the fourteenth amendment made ******* citizens of the United States**, and citizens of the State in which they reside, and thereby created two classes of citizens, one of the United States** and the other of the state_."
[Cory et al. v. Carter, 48 Ind. 327]

http://www.dailypaul.com/136332/are-you-a-14th-amendment-citizen

BTW, you did not read the exchange I had, so you need to read it in context. I don't need to debate you about a damn thing.


----------



## SARGE7402

The Resister said:


> You are consistent with your bullshit. Lies, lies and you ended with a knowing LIE. You know the deal about citizenship... or you are not who you claim to be.
> 
> "_The first clause of the fourteenth amendment made ******* citizens of the United States**, and citizens of the State in which they reside, and thereby created two classes of citizens, one of the United States** and the other of the state_."
> [Cory et al. v. Carter, 48 Ind. 327]
> 
> are you a 14th Amendment citizen? | Peace . Gold . LOVE
> 
> BTW, you did not read the exchange I had, so you need to read it in context. I don't need to debate you about a damn thing.


I guess you have stopped begging.

Horse sh - - . So much for being a Constitutionalist.

More of your racist crap. Guess you really are what you say you are


----------



## Notsoyoung

"None of those who spew shit have the courage to meet me in public or anywhere face to face on a level playing field."

Correct me if I am wrong, but on another thread didn't someone offer to meet the little man with the big mouth in North Carolina and he replied that he wouldn't do it and if someone wanted to meet him they would have to come to his location? Not exactly what he is implying is it.

The person starting this thread mentioned that he was worried that resistor would end up hi-jacking the thread. Look what the thread is talking about now? Once again by posting page after page of the same thing over and over, accusing anyone who disagrees with him as being liars, uneducated, a cheering section, gay, in favor of big government, facists, nazis, and socialists, resistor has hi-jacked another thread. What is amazing is how often he actually believes that he has beaten someone on this forum when everyone else are laughing at him.

Don't take him too seriously, no one else does. He is like a hemorrhoid, not worth anything but a real pain in the butt.


----------



## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> My "claim to fame" is damn well not being part of the militia. And, it was not "wannabe." One of the founding members was Lt. Col. (USA retired) Gordon "Jack" Mohr. Mohr was the first American captured during the Korean Conflict. He was beaten and tortured, even sentenced to death, but escaped and returned back to fight yet again. The program we used to train the militia was developed by Lt. Col. James "Bo" Gritz, a former Green Beret and CIA operative. Wannabe? While I had the least military experience of all the officers, the legal experience was complimentary to the training.
> 
> Okay, a pamphlet, report or even a financial document is not binding on any court or tribunal. It literally IS NOT LAW.
> 
> I ask you again, sir. IF the law means "illegal" WHY DID CONGRESS TRY TO CHANGE THE WORDING OF THE LAW? The facts are, the change was introduced by Tea Party supporter, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, a guy who sees this issue exactly like you do - except he is an attorney and realizes that we've not been dealing with criminal law.


The first American captured during the Korean War was a LT. Col? Not an Enlisted man or Company grade officer on a recon patrol? Not someone in a Field Company? It was a Field Grade officer? What the hell was someone who was held the rank of a Battalion Commander doing in a place where he was the FIRST one captured?

As for your "legal experience", going to a non-accredited school, both a waste of time and money, and not being a member of the bar (we all believe that you didn't join because the ABA is "too liberal" and not because you couldn't pass the bar exam and didn't meet their qualifications) just shows what a bunch of wannabees that militia is.

By the way, if anyone wants to have a good laugh, go to google images and google Georgia Militia. What's with that picture of all of those guys with guns posing naked in the woods? What the hell is that all about? Is it titled "gays with guns"?


----------



## Slippy

Bo Gritz From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the American Army officer. For the Swedish theologian, see Bo Giertz.










An automated process has detected links on this page on the *local or global blacklist.* If the links are appropriate you may request whitelisting by following these instructions; otherwise consider removing or replacing them with more appropriate links. List of blacklisted links:[show]​ 
 
James Gordon Gritz Nickname(s)BoBorn January 18, 1939 (age 75)Allegiance







United StatesService/branch







United States ArmyYears of service1957-1979Rank Lieutenant ColonelUnitB-36, 5th Special Forces GroupBattles/warsVietnam War
Laotian Civil War (Secret War)AwardsSilver Star
Soldier's Medal
Bronze Star
Purple Heart
Air Medal
 *James Gordon "Bo" Gritz* (/ˈɡraɪtz/;[SUP][1][/SUP] born January 18, 1939) is a former United States Army Special Forces officer who served in the Vietnam War. His post-war activities - notably attempted POW rescues in conjunction with the Vietnam War POW/MIA issue - have proven controversial.
Gritz may be most notable for his two United States presidential campaigns in association with the white nationalist America First party in 1988 and 1992. In 1988, Gritz ran as vice president with former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke. A vocal advocate for re-institution of racial segregation in states that pass laws to allow it, Gritz ran in 1992 under the slogan: "God, Guns and Gritz," and published an isolationist political manifesto entitled "The Bill of Gritz". Among other things, the "Bill of Gritz" called for the complete closing of the border with Mexico, and dissolution of the Federal Reserve.[SUP][2][/SUP] Gritz lives near Sandy Valley, Nevada with his wife Judy.[SUP][3][/SUP]
Contents


1 U.S. military service
2 Attempts to locate prisoners of war
3 U.S. Government involvement in drug trafficking
4 Conspiracy theorist
5 Anti-war activities
6 Writings
7 Populist Party presidential tickets
8 Controversial activities
9 Subsequent activities
10 Involvement with Mormonism
11 Trivia
12 References
13 External links

U.S. military service Gritz was born in 1939 in Enid, Oklahoma. His father served in the Army Air Force in World War II and was killed in action. He was raised by his maternal grandparents on patriotic stories of his father's heroics in the war. He enlisted in the U.S. Army in 1957 and shortly thereafter attended Officer Candidate School (OCS). As a lieutenant colonel in Vietnam, he commanded detachment "B-36", U.S. Army Special Forces 5th SFG for a time.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] B-36 was a mixed American and South Vietnamese unit which operated in the III Corps area of Southern South Vietnam.[SUP][3][/SUP] He served in a variety of assignments until his retirement in 1979 at the rank of lieutenant colonel.
Gritz has claimed that he received an array of military awards, and this claim has been drawn into question. A memo regarding his awards and award recommendations during his time in Vietnam seems to indicate that Gritz was personally involved with the recommendation of some of his medals, including the Legion of Merit, and that some of his awards recommendations cited the same missions and incidents, effectively awarding Gritz multiple medals for the same missions, including the Legion of Merit, Air Medal, Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Army Commendation Medal.[SUP][6][/SUP]
Attempts to locate prisoners of war During the 1980s Gritz undertook a series of private trips into Southeast Asia, purportedly to locate United States prisoners of war which as part of the Vietnam War POW/MIA issue some believed were still being held by Laos and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam - e.g., at Nhommarath. Those missions were heavily publicized, controversial and widely decried as haphazard - for instance, as some commentators stated, few successful secret missions involve bringing to the border towns women openly marketing commemorative POW-rescue T-shirts.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP]
In the book _Inside Delta Force_, CSM Eric L. Haney, a former Delta Force operator, claims that the unit was twice told to prepare for a mission involving the rescue of American POWs from Vietnam. However, both times the missions were scrubbed, according to Haney, when Gritz suddenly appeared in the spotlight, drawing too much attention to the issue and making the missions too difficult to accomplish.[SUP][9][/SUP]
U.S. Government involvement in drug trafficking In 1986, after a trip to Burma to interview drug kingpin Khun Sa regarding possible locations of U.S. POWs, Gritz returned from Burma with a videotaped interview of Khun Sa purporting to name several officials in the Reagan administration involved in narcotics trafficking in Southeast Asia. Among those named was Richard Armitage, who most recently served as Deputy Secretary of State during George W. Bush's first term as president. Gritz believed that those same officials were involved in a coverup of missing American POWs.[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP]
During this period Gritz established contacts with the Christic Institute,[SUP][10][/SUP] a progressive group which was then pursuing a lawsuit against the U.S. government over charges of drug trafficking in both Southeast Asia and Central America.[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP]
Conspiracy theorist In 1989, Gritz established the Center For Action, which was active on a number of issues, mostly pertaining to conspiracy theories. Attempting to build bridges among conspiracy theorists and other activists of both the left and right, in 1990 he held a conference in Las Vegas, Nevada called "Freedom Call '90". Speakers at that conference included October surprise conspiracy researcher Barbara Honegger, Bill Davis of the Christic Institute, conspiracy theorist Eustace Mullins, and several others. This newfound interest in conspiracy theories proved to be as controversial as Gritz's earlier missions searching for POWs.
Anti-war activities During the 1991 Persian Gulf War, Gritz was an outspoken opponent of that war, and linked it to a conspiracy theory alleging plans to implement a one-world government, known as the "new world order." He appeared on Pacifica Radio stations in California as a guest several times, and for a short time was in demand as a speaker to left-wing and anti-war audiences. However, during this period he also became closely associated with the Christian Patriot movement on the right, and spoke at conferences sponsored by Christian Identity pastor Pete Peters. When these associations became known to those on the left, especially after the publication of a report by the Los Angeles-based group People Against Racist Terror calling Gritz a "front man for fascism",[SUP][11][/SUP] left-wing audiences lost interest in Gritz, and the Christic Institute and Pacifica Radio cut off any further association.[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP]
Writings Gritz is the author of three books. The first, _A Nation Betrayed_, was published in 1989 and contained Gritz's allegations of drug trafficking and a POW coverup, based on the Khun Sa interview. The second, _Called To Serve_, was published in 1992 and expanded on the previous book to cover a wide range of conspiracies, including the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and allegations of a conspiracy to establish a new world order. His third book is titled _My Brother's Keeper_ and was published in 2003.[SUP][12][/SUP]
Populist Party presidential tickets In 1988, Gritz was the candidate for Vice President of the United States on the Populist Party ticket, as the running mate of former Ku Klux Klansman David Duke. Gritz pulled out early in the race and ran instead for a Nevada Congressional seat.[SUP][13][/SUP] Gritz was then replaced with Floyd Parker on some ballots. Gritz has claimed he accepted the party's nomination with the belief he would be the running mate of James Traficant, and that sometime after learning it would be not be Traficant but Duke and sometime after meeting Duke, he decided to drop out.[SUP][14][/SUP]
In 1992, after failing to secure the U.S. Taxpayers' Party's nomination, Gritz ran for President of the United States, again with the Populist Party. Under the campaign slogan "God, Guns and Gritz" and publishing his political manifesto "The Bill of Gritz" (playing on his last name rhyming with "rights"), he called for staunch opposition to what he called "global government" and "The New World Order", ending all foreign aid, and abolishing federal income tax and the Federal Reserve System.[SUP][2][/SUP] During the campaign, Gritz openly proclaimed the United States to be a "Christian Nation", stating that the country's legal statutes "should reflect unashamed acceptance of Almighty God and His Laws."[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP] He received 106,152 votes nationwide, or only 0.14% of the popular vote.[SUP][2][/SUP] In two states he had a respectable showing for a third party candidate: Utah, where he received 3.84% of the vote and Idaho, where he received 2.13% of the vote.[SUP][2][/SUP] In some counties, his support topped 10%,[SUP][2][/SUP] and in Franklin County, Idaho, was only a few votes away from pushing Bill Clinton into fourth place in the county. His run on the America First/Populist Party ticket was prompted by his association with another far-right political Christian talk radio host, Tom Valentine.[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP] During his Presidential run, part of Gritz's standard stump speech was an idea to pay off the National debt by minting a coin at the Treasury and sending it to the Federal Reserve. This predates the 2012 Trillion dollar coin concept.[SUP][15][/SUP]
Also during 1992, Gritz attracted national attention as mediator during the government standoff with Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.[SUP][16][/SUP]
Controversial activities In 1993, Gritz changed his emphasis again and began offering a course called SPIKE (Specially Prepared Individuals for Key Events), where those events oppose the New World Order, which taught paramilitary and survivalist skills because he predicted that there would be a total sociopolitical and economic collapse in the U.S. He also established a community in Kamiah, Idaho (contiguous to the Nez Perce Reservation) called Almost Heaven.
Several times he used his influence and reputation in the Christian Patriot community in attempts to negotiate conclusions between legal authorities and far-Right activists. In August 1992, he intervened on behalf of Randy Weaver who, with his family, was holed up on his rural home in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, after U.S. Marshals attempted to arrest him for failure to appear in court. The 11-day standoff, which resulted in the deaths of a U.S. Marshal and Weaver's son and wife, ended after Gritz convinced Weaver to leave his cabin and place his faith and trust in the court system. In 1996, he unsuccessfully attempted to negotiate a conclusion to the stand-off by the Montana Freemen, a group of Christian Patriot activists who were wanted on a collection of charges. After speaking with the "Freemen," he left in frustration, stating that they presented him with what he called "legal mumbo-jumbo"[SUP][17][/SUP] to support their claims, and cautioned others in the Patriot movement not to support them (the stand-off ended when the "Freemen" surrendered after 81 days).[SUP][_citation needed_][/SUP]
He has been accused of white supremacy by some, although he renounced the belief in an interview with The Militia Watchdog, saying "I've served with black, white, yellow, brown, red; all religions; nobody ever asked you about your religion, your blood bleeds red the same as everyone else."[SUP][18][/SUP] As well, Gritz openly renounced racism during his "Spike" training courses, and welcomed all who wanted to join in the training regardless of race.
Subsequent activities In 1998, Gritz organized a fruitless search for the Centennial Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph in order to save Rudolph's life.[SUP][19][/SUP]
In 2005, Gritz became an active protester for intervention in the Terri Schiavo case. On 19 March 2005, when the tube was removed, he was arrested for trespassing after trying to enter the hospice where she lived.[SUP][20][/SUP]
As of 2010 Gritz remains active with a website[SUP][21][/SUP] and a radio broadcast called "Freedom Call" on The American Voice Radio Network [SUP][22][/SUP] via Internet Audio Streaming, Phone Bridge, Independent Am/FM and via the Free-to-air Ku band home satellite system on Galaxy 19.[SUP][23][/SUP] He is also active as the Commander of the American Legion Post 27 in Sandy Valley, Nevada.[SUP][24][/SUP]
in 2014, Lt. Col Gritz hosts a radio show on Americanvoiceradio.com known as Freedom Call. It is broadcast weekdays at 5pm EST.[SUP][25][/SUP]
Involvement with Mormonism In 1984, Gritz and his wife Claudia were baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).[SUP][2][/SUP] However, amid infidelity scandals, Gritz's stake president refused to renew Gritz's temple recommend until Gritz could prove that he had paid his federal income tax.[SUP][26][/SUP] In response, Gritz resigned his membership in the LDS Church.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][26][/SUP]
In 1999, Gritz and his second wife Judy became involved in the Church of Israel, a group that originated within the Latter Day Saint movement and has since become involved with the Christian Identity movement.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Trivia The character of John "Hannibal" Smith on the 1980s television series _The A-Team_ was loosely based on Gritz.[SUP][27][/SUP] In the early 1980s, actor William Shatner paid almost $15,000 for the entertainment rights to Gritz's life story.[SUP][28][/SUP] In the 1996 TV film about the Ruby Ridge incident, _Ruby Ridge: An American Tragedy_ (later re-edited as _The Siege at Ruby Ridge_), Bo Gritz was portrayed by Bob Gunton.[SUP][29][/SUP]
Gritz appears as himself in the 1998 BBC television documentary, Survivalists, part of the first series of Louis Theroux's Weird Weekends.[SUP][30][/SUP]
References


----------



## Slippy

Gordon "Jack" Mohr  
Gordon "Jack" Mohr

*Gordon Dwight Mohr* also known as *Jack Mohr* (January 1, 1916 - July 17, 2003) was born in Chicago, Illinois and grew up on a farm in Michigan. He enlisted in the US Army during World War II and later served in the Korean War where he was held as a prisoner of war. During his military career he rose from private first class to company commander. In 1964 he retired as Lieutenant Colonel. 
For a period of time he was member of the John Birch Society. He headed the Citizen's Emergency Defense System which was the militia of the Christian Patriots Defense League which he co-founded with John Robert Harrell.[SUP][1][/SUP] The Citizen's Emergency Defense System was based in Mohr's home town of Bay St. Louis, Mississippi. 
Mohr was a promoter of Christian Identity religion and a believed in the _Protocols_. 

Contents [hide]


1 Works by Mohr
2 See also
3 Notes
4 External links
 
 Works by Mohr 

 A Study in Anti-Gentilism
 The Hidden Power Behind Freemasonry A free ebook, available in HTML, PDF, EPUB, and MOBI formats.
 _The Undeclared War!_
 _Communist Terror in Peaceful Heaven_ (book)
 _Woe Unto Ye Fundamentalists!_ (pamphlet)
 See also 

 List of anti-Semitic American military officers
 Kenneth Goff


----------



## Inor

Notsoyoung said:


> "None of those who spew shit have the courage to meet me in public or anywhere face to face on a level playing field."
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but on another thread didn't someone offer to meet the little man with the big mouth in North Carolina and he replied that he wouldn't do it and if someone wanted to meet him they would have to come to his location? Not exactly what he is implying is it.
> 
> The person starting this thread mentioned that he was worried that resistor would end up hi-jacking the thread. Look what the thread is talking about now? Once again by posting page after page of the same thing over and over, accusing anyone who disagrees with him as being liars, uneducated, a cheering section, gay, in favor of big government, facists, nazis, and socialists, resistor has hi-jacked another thread. What is amazing is how often he actually believes that he has beaten someone on this forum when everyone else are laughing at him.
> 
> Don't take him too seriously, no one else does. He is like a hemorrhoid, not worth anything but a real pain in the butt.


Yeah - Jimmy is a real keyboard cowboy. He called me out by sending a PM to my wife. HAHAHA! Like I would waste a minute of my life on his dumb ass, let alone travel all the way to Georgia to do it. If I go to Georgia, it is only to run with the big dogs like RPD and Slippy. Jimmy Resistard ain't part of the plan.


----------



## SARGE7402

Inor said:


> Yeah - Jimmy is a real keyboard cowboy. He called me out by sending a PM to my wife. HAHAHA! Like I would waste a minute of my life on his dumb ass, let alone travel all the way to Georgia to do it. If I go to Georgia, it is only to run with the big dogs like RPD and Slippy. Jimmy Resistard ain't part of the plan.


He probably ought to give her a wide bearth. If she can ride herd on you he won't even be an ink spot when she get done chewing him out


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Slippy, thank you for posting what most Vietnam veterans already knew about Bo Gritz. 
I would not only refuse to be associated with him, I would refuse to even be in the same building as him.


----------



## SARGE7402

Register's mentor Bo Gritz


----------



## Inor

SARGE7402 said:


> He probably ought to give her a wide bearth. If she can ride herd on you he won't even be an ink spot when she get done chewing him out


Ditto that. She is a tough old broad.


----------



## SARGE7402

Notsoyoung said:


> The first American captured during the Korean War was a LT. Col? Not an Enlisted man or Company grade officer on a recon patrol? Not someone in a Field Company? It was a Field Grade officer? What the hell was someone who was held the rank of a Battalion Commander doing in a place where he was the FIRST one captured?
> 
> As for your "legal experience", going to a non-accredited school, both a waste of time and money, and not being a member of the bar (we all believe that you didn't join because the ABA is "too liberal" and not because you couldn't pass the bar exam and didn't meet their qualifications) just shows what a bunch of wannabees that militia is.
> 
> By the way, if anyone wants to have a good laugh, go to google images and google Georgia Militia. What's with that picture of all of those guys with guns posing naked in the woods? What the hell is that all about? Is it titled "gays with guns"?


Another one of Register's slight misrepresentations of the facts.

While working with the Korean Military Advisory Group in prewar Korea, he was captured during an abortive coup attempt against the government of president Sigmun Rhee in November 1948. He was tried by a Communist People's Court and sentenced to be shot by a Red firing squad

Korean War didn't begin until 1950.


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## machinejjh

And the puzzle pieces slowly come together, adding more nails to the respectability coffin.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

The Resister said:


> To the balance of you reading this:
> 
> ...


Get a grip, Jimmy. The balance of us don't read your crap. Personally I don't because your repetitious drivel causes my eyes to glaze over.
You, sir, are a buffoon.


----------



## Notsoyoung

Doctor: Border Crisis Is 'Absolutely a Health Threat' to Nation

Monday, 14 Jul 2014 08:56 PM

By Bill Hoffmann
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The U.S. is facing a major health threat due to the explosion of disease at detention centers holding thousands of illegal-immigrant children on the southern border, says Dr. Elaina George, who specializes in ear, nose and throat afflictions.

"It's absolutely a health threat,'' George, a board-certified otolaryngologist, told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV Monday.

Special: 9 Signs Your Immune System Is Dysfunctional

Story continues below video.

Note: Watch Newsmax TV now on DIRECTV Ch. 349 and DISH Ch. 223
Get Newsmax TV on your cable system - Click Here Now

"It's like a perfect pressure cooker &#8230; a culture medium if you really want to think about it in that manner - a 1700 mile track by foot, by train or however else they're coming up.

"They haven't been fed, they're dehydrated their immune systems have basically taken a major hit and you have to remember that they're young children so they don't have a lot of reserve to begin with.''

And the illnesses are plentiful, ranging from the common cold to tuberculosis.

"Frontline health professionals that say that they're seeing people with active TB who are coughing up blood, who are short of breath, who are physically in the throes of active TB and they are communicable,'' George said.

"Not everybody shows symptoms right away, but they could have the disease before it actually manifests or shows itself. So they're just as infectious.''

Just as serious is the fact that many of these sick youngsters are being jetted around the country to be placed in foster homes.

"They are putting them on commercial airliners. [The] TSA has been ordered to stand down and allow these children and adults to get on planes without ID. So they're arriving in Georgia, they're arriving in Maryland they're arriving all over the country,'' she said.

"In Maryland, there was an immigrant child who had TB and the parents just got a letter from their school stating that their children have been exposed. There's going to be a lot more letters like that going out if parents are lucky.''

TB, once fairly common to treat, is a menace again, George noted.

"That is the most frightening part about TB. In the past they had treatments for it, but now it's become so difficult to treat that even as a healthcare worker provider like myself we have to take tests every year and actually do questionnaires to make sure that we're not able to pass any diseases,'' she said.

"[And] there's mumps, there's chickenpox, which most of us have been vaccinated for, but infants haven't yet and the senior citizens are all at risk or people with HIV or other immune compromising diseases.

"Then you have &#8230; all sorts of tropical diseases that I, as a healthcare professional don't have a lot of facility with &#8230; People on the front line are really going to have to brush up on tropical diseases so that we know what we're looking at. It's just the tip of the ice berg, I'm afraid.''

Parents must take extra caution, George warned.

"Children are known vectors anyway. Runny noses, they play with each other they touch each other and touch their noses,'' she said.

"Just imagine how easily diseases could be transmitted through a family, for example. My problem with this is that the government has no regard for us as American citizens.

"My dad was an immigrant I am not against legal immigration at all, but the way this is being done, it is being done haphazard and it's all about winning at any cost and it's political strategy without regard for health.''


----------



## Notsoyoung

SARGE7402 said:


> Register's mentor Bo Gritz


Why am I not surprised? The other day he referred to some lady as "a JEWISH women" (he capitalized the JEWISH part).


----------



## rice paddy daddy

For someone to be so consumed with one issue surely would interest a psychiatrist.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Any time you'd like to test that theory, give me a call.


I assure you, it is not a theory. Of course, such invitations are meaningless, as little punks like you rely on the fact that people won't go out of their way to bother with the likes of you.

So, what's it like, attacking all those who get tired of your garbage? How does it feel, calling other people racists, just because they understand the need for a government to control the nation's borders? Of course, Not only are you light years more intelligent and better read than are we, you can even peer into our souls and divine our true feelings.

We should pass the hat and take up a love offering for you. Maybe, if we take up enough, you can take your seminars on the road.


----------



## Denton

U.N. seeking to intervene in U.S. border crisis



> UNITED NATIONS - Representatives of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, or UNHRC, are "intensely discussing in meetings" the possibility of extending U.N. protection to the thousands of Central Americans crossing the U.S. border with Mexico illegally by defining them as "refugees" who are seeking asylum from political and domestic violence in their home nations, WND has confirmed.


Read more at U.N. seeking to intervene in U.S. border crisis

I liken what is happening to us with what happened to Lebanon. At one time, Lebanon, the enclave carved out to be the safe haven for Christians in that region, was called the "Riviera of the Middle East." A little digging into history makes it clear what happened to that once peaceful country, nestled in a part of the world that is dominated by barbarians with only one sober, democratic nation on its border.

Our take-down is being choreographed, and the bill is being charged against the government's credit card, and the government cares not what you or I think. As far as its controllers think, the end game is too close to worry about our sentiment, anymore.


----------



## omegabrock

1 day -> 5 more pages of comments...


----------



## Slippy

omegabrock said:


> 1 day -> 5 more pages of comments...


And no one has changed their mind...


----------



## Denton

pharmer14 said:


> I'm well aware of the risk of this thread being hijacked by The Resister, but I'm gravely concerned about the wave of illegals coming across the southern border.
> 
> I think this is a very clear reason for us to continue prepping.
> 
> We aren't bringing engineers and doctors in folks. We're bringing in single moms with 5 kids. We're going to drown our public assistance programs even more. While doing that we're also freeing up space for the cartels to run more narcotics in as our Border Patrol agents are tied up playing nanny.
> 
> Dangerous times. We're walking the road to serfdom... hope you got some comfy shoes...


If you notice in the opening post, the discussion was not about that which La Raza Boy wanted, so he hijacked it.


----------



## Slippy

pharmer14 said:


> I'm well aware of the risk of this thread being hijacked by The Resister, but I'm gravely concerned about the wave of illegals coming across the southern border.
> 
> I think this is a very clear reason for us to continue prepping.
> 
> We aren't bringing engineers and doctors in folks. We're bringing in single moms with 5 kids. We're going to drown our public assistance programs even more. While doing that we're also freeing up space for the cartels to run more narcotics in as our Border Patrol agents are tied up playing nanny.
> 
> Dangerous times. We're walking the road to serfdom... hope you got some comfy shoes...


These people are being allowed to enter the US for the sole reason of breaking our system. More Allynsky tactics.


----------



## The Resister

rice paddy daddy said:


> For someone to be so consumed with one issue surely would interest a psychiatrist.


I feel the same way toward you and the Cheering Section. You're so consumed with me and what I might say... and trying to figure out ways to use the net to discredit me, that you misrepresent every sentence I type as you stay on this board all hours of the day and night. Wouldn't that indicate that some of you may genuinely need a psychiatrist?


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> If you notice in the opening post, the discussion was not about that which La Raza Boy wanted, so he hijacked it.


You've gotten your lips so tightly stuck to SARGE7402's ass that you have learned how to lie just like him. How many posts have popped up here about things not related to the subject? Oh, since I responded to Notsosmart's posting and he took the opportunity to talk about Lt.Col. Mohr and hijack the thread, I'm at fault??? Good one.


----------



## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> "None of those who spew shit have the courage to meet me in public or anywhere face to face on a level playing field."
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but on another thread didn't someone offer to meet the little man with the big mouth in North Carolina and he replied that he wouldn't do it and if someone wanted to meet him they would have to come to his location? Not exactly what he is implying is it.
> 
> The person starting this thread mentioned that he was worried that resistor would end up hi-jacking the thread. Look what the thread is talking about now? Once again by posting page after page of the same thing over and over, accusing anyone who disagrees with him as being liars, uneducated, a cheering section, gay, in favor of big government, facists, nazis, and socialists, resistor has hi-jacked another thread. What is amazing is how often he actually believes that he has beaten someone on this forum when everyone else are laughing at him.
> 
> Don't take him too seriously, no one else does. He is like a hemorrhoid, not worth anything but a real pain in the butt.


You're wrong, of course. Somebody may have asked me to come to North Carolina. If you want to call a man out, you say name the time and place. The challenger does the traveling, dumbass. Hey, I'd do it, but the candyasses who like to beat their keyboards would go crying, accusing me of threatening them. If somebody challenges me, I can name a time and a place. Anything goes from your nose to your toes.


----------



## The Resister

SARGE7402 said:


> Another one of Register's slight misrepresentations of the facts.
> 
> While working with the Korean Military Advisory Group in prewar Korea, he was captured during an abortive coup attempt against the government of president Sigmun Rhee in November 1948. He was tried by a Communist People's Court and sentenced to be shot by a Red firing squad
> 
> Korean War didn't begin until 1950.


I've not misrepresented any facts. I told what I believed to be accurate. You have to remember, I haven't had any contact with Jack because he's been dead over a decade. I genuinely don't know every detail about the who, what and when. The basics are correct. Finding an insignificant piece of the story that was recalled from memory to be off time-wise isn't a lie. Are you ****ing retarded or plain stupid?


----------



## The Resister

Notsoyoung said:


> The first American captured during the Korean War was a LT. Col? Not an Enlisted man or Company grade officer on a recon patrol? Not someone in a Field Company? It was a Field Grade officer? What the hell was someone who was held the rank of a Battalion Commander doing in a place where he was the FIRST one captured?
> 
> As for your "legal experience", going to a non-accredited school, both a waste of time and money, and not being a member of the bar (we all believe that you didn't join because the ABA is "too liberal" and not because you couldn't pass the bar exam and didn't meet their qualifications) just shows what a bunch of wannabees that militia is.
> 
> By the way, if anyone wants to have a good laugh, go to google images and google Georgia Militia. What's with that picture of all of those guys with guns posing naked in the woods? What the hell is that all about? Is it titled "gays with guns"?


You would be a millionaire if you would sue your brains for non-support. To begin with, you act like everybody on this thread is an idiot. I never claimed that Mohr was a Lt. Col. when he was captured. I told you he *RETIRED* as a Lt. Col. NOTHING in that indicates his rank at the time of capture.

Now, as for your shit concerning the Georgia Militia. I have never, in any way, shape, fashion, or form been involved with any group called the "_Georgia Militia_." I realize that you won't be mature enough to apologize, but the Georgia Militia is my arch nemesis. You and your buddies would be better served to learn how to read.


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## The Resister

It's been real and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun. This thread ought to be about immigration and since I would waste too much space correcting all the bullshit that's been aimed at me, it's better to let the retards get back to ****ing up the situation. WHEN you lose, you will still be remembering my parting shot: I told you so.

No need to attack me further because I won't visit this thread again.


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## rice paddy daddy

Yeah, sure.


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## keith9365

Slippy said:


> These people are being allowed to enter the US for the sole reason of breaking our system. More Allynsky tactics.


We're allowing thousands of these people to flood our country. They will live off the system most of their lives. They will grow up to be loyal democratic voters who will vote for more handouts.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money"

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; 
it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. 
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. 
From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates
who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, 
with the result that every democracy will finally collapse 
due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship"


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## Notsoyoung

The Resister said:


> It's been real and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun. This thread ought to be about immigration and since I would waste too much space correcting all the bullshit that's been aimed at me, it's better to let the retards get back to ****ing up the situation. WHEN you lose, you will still be remembering my parting shot: I told you so.
> 
> No need to attack me further because I won't visit this thread again.


Now aren't we all sorry for being so mean to him?


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## SARGE7402

The Resister said:


> I've not misrepresented any facts. I told what I believed to be accurate. You have to remember, I haven't had any contact with Jack because he's been dead over a decade. I genuinely don't know every detail about the who, what and when. The basics are correct. Finding an insignificant piece of the story that was recalled from memory to be off time-wise isn't a lie. Are you ****ing retarded or plain stupid?


No little man this is another one of you little ways to try and build yourself up as some one that folks out to look up to. He was captured in 1948 two whole years before the Korean War broke out. He was not the first POW of the Korean War. He was also a racist and a bigot. But I guess you didn't know that either. But then why would you. You don't think you are a racist either do you.


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## SARGE7402

Notsoyoung said:


> Now aren't we all sorry for being so mean to him?


Boy am I glad that that's over.

I did notice a story this afternoon that the UN want's to stick it's nose inside the tent and consider this a refugee issue.


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## Slippy

The Resister said:


> ...because I won't visit this thread again.


We'll see.


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> You've gotten your lips so tightly stuck to SARGE7402's ass that you have learned how to lie just like him. How many posts have popped up here about things not related to the subject? Oh, since I responded to Notsosmart's posting and he took the opportunity to talk about Lt.Col. Mohr and hijack the thread, I'm at fault??? Good one.


No, you idiot who thinks he is a cross between Don Rickles and Einstein, I am simply sick of the flames you bring to the board. I am sick of your hijackings. I am, in general, sick of you. It took a whole, but you finally got to me, too.

You offer no courtesy or respect, and you deserve none. Whatever you might think you bring to this community is far outweighed by the fact that you are here, bringing it and you, Einstein, are too stupid to grasp that. Yeah, I know; you are the poor little victim.

By the way, did I offend you by referring to you as Einstein? He was Jewish, after all, and not La Raza.


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## Notsoyoung

SHOCK VIDEO>>> Illegals Arrive in Bus and Shop at Walmart With EBT Cards | The Gateway Pundit

For those who claim that ILLEGALs can't get welfare. The same for obamacare. Yes it is illegal for ILLEGAL aliens to get it, but it is also illegal to ask for proof of citizenship. All someone has to do when asked if they are here legally is say "yes". Think someone who willingly breaks our laws just by being here might lie?


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## Notsoyoung

Reid: Southern border is secure | TheHill

Nothing to worry about, Harry Reid says our borders are secure.


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## Piratesailor

Notsoyoung said:


> Reid: Southern border is secure | TheHill
> 
> Nothing to worry about, Harry Reid says our borders are secure.


I think Reid was just in Colorado.. And smoking something.

This is not going to end well.


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## SquirrelBait

Discuss?

Edit: That sucked. Have to go to You Tube to see it.

Sorry.


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## Denton

No big deal. Just click on the "Watch this video on youtube" link. Watching it, now.


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## Denton

I would say he wrapped it all up in one neat package. 

I don't give a tinker's damn what someone's viewpoint on immigration should be; what is vitally important is what is happening and why. He spelled it out as good as anyone can.


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