# The SHTF, you have to leave your home on foot



## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

Here's the deal. The SHTF, you have to leave your home on foot. You and your family have to head out into the forest to escape. You get to a point in the forest that you feel safe. Winter is coming.

Conditions:


The natives are not friendly but if you don't travel far you are safe hunt and fish.
You cannot get to your cache or bugout location.
It's your immediate family only, if you have no children or wife then its just you.
The only tools, food, clothing and ammo are what you brought in your BOBs. Each member age above 5 has a bag. If you have a child under 2 then one adult cannot carry a bag.
Each adult over the age of 18 has a firearm.
Children can have bows and arrows.
State how many people are in your party in your answer. 
When you use a tool tell whose bag it came from




First Task.

Based on what you have in your BOBs now, explain what kind of shelter you are going to build and your plan for heating it. And the tools in your bags you use to build it.


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## RoyLanchester (Dec 10, 2014)

What region? If it's in my home state than heat isn't as important as shelter and water. Also the type of forest makes a difference in flora and fuana and what tools is bring.

Also do I have to bring my daughters husband or can I use him as bait?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

We start to set up camp and then are attacked by a mob of zombie ninja mutant bikers.. We die.....


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## Murphy (Oct 9, 2014)

Why Walk into the the forest? We will walk to the Motel 6 Where they will leave a light on for us


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

You guys are no fun!! I wanna hear some real answers. This is how I learn!


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## RoyLanchester (Dec 10, 2014)

The region plays a huge part. If I am in my own backyard I'd be in good shape, throw me in the attic or desert and I'd be screwed.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Re: Condition 2. I accept that I may not make it the same day. I do not accept that I cannot make it period. Our BOBs have tents, we make camp and move on the next day.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Its your game and you get to play it as you want, but I just can't accept #2 since I've made so many efforts to insure that is exactly the case (both caches on the way and the bug out location). I don't aim to / want too crap on your game and rules but if something was preventing me from "moving on" towards my bug out location its called death. Otherwise I keep moving with that in mind no matter how slow, how difficult or how seemingly impossible. In fact I enjoy (since planning is free) looking at all the different possible ways that reaching my bug out are possible.

Let me give you some examples of the extremes I've gone too in order to insure I don't get bogged down and have to 'sit" and shelter in the woods on the way to my BOL.

1) Boats,
2) Bikes,
3) Relationships with individuals that raise and train horses on the way,
4) Learn how to fly
5) BOV faraday protected components so even in an EMP I can get it running incl night vision so I can roll at night from 3 to 4:45 AM 
6) Every mapped route and several that are not.
7) Emergency caches of ammo, long term stored foods, and some other items I can't easily carry enough of at points that would be 
safe to stop with no more then 3 days in between them on foot (less on bike or by horse),

So the only way I get bogged down into having to make shelter in the woods is if I broke a leg, or my wife did, and we can't move.
In which case we'd still move.



Tennessee said:


> Here's the deal. The SHTF, you have to leave your home on foot. You and your family have to head out into the forest to escape. You get to a point in the forest that you feel safe. Winter is coming.
> 
> Conditions:
> 
> ...


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

plan on buggin out in the first place that way you can take a truck and trailer.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

#6 Children can have bows and arrows... are you nuts my 3 year old would end up shooting his brother in the buttocks


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Hell I will play. I'm bored.

I have 4 kids, but two will be in the Navy, so I plan for 2 kids, 13 and 16. They have bows and arrows and can use them to take an animal. I have the wife and then me. So 4 altogether.

Other than weaponry each bag has the same basics. Knives, first aid, fishing, shelter material, hatchet, cords and lashings, fire starting material and water purification. I have an ax head in mine as well as a shovel blade.

How do I live? I immediately conduct a recon for suitable water source and shelter, keeping a mind towards defense and egress routes. I find and improve upon or construct shelter. 

I locate secondary locations to egress to in all directions and ensure everyone knows where and when to go there.

I never start the days activities until I have conducted a recon and ensured no one is within ear shot of my location.

I put localized early warning up and long range trail activity indicators out on all trails and access routes that I will check daily.

The kids will rotate to an observation spot with bows to provide early detection and engage if needed. They are free to take shots at any game that comes by as long as it's not towards camp.

All hunting will consist of traps, snares and fishing. and hunting with guns will be done at great distances from camp.

All hunting parties will be me with one of the sons. While we are hunting Son 2 and wife will be on high alert at camp and OP position. Bug out according to earlier plan and activate bugged out indicator.

Bugged out indicator will be visible from a pre-defined location, that we will occupy prior to returning from hunt. Based upon which of the four signals are activated I know where they went.

We will never use the same route more than twice a week into or out of the camp and will leave it in an expanding spiral method so that no trails come direct into camp.

All fires will be below ground, preferably in a rotted tree trunk, with branches to diffuse smoke. Small fires only for cooking and also to produce coals for warmth. Coals brought into shelter over night and put into a pre-dug hole and in a fashion to last the night. 

Rotate to other sites on a weekly basis until I decide to stay at one longer.


Thats me just playin the game. Wow...I was bored.


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## videodork (Dec 8, 2014)

old sf guy said:


> hell i will play. I'm bored.
> 
> I have 4 kids, but two will be in the navy, so i plan for 2 kids, 13 and 16. They have bows and arrows and can use them to take an animal. I have the wife and then me. So 4 altogether.
> 
> ...


i pick old sf guy for my team!!!!!


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

I live in GA where it is fairly warm and would head towards NC if my home was compromised so large poncho with para-cord for shelter and a reflective blanket for heat along with wool socks. I also carry 6 fire cubes and a knife sturdy enough for making dry fire starting kindling and a lighter in my bag. Having said that since I live where I would plan on hunkering down my BOB is always in my vehicle so always close by when I travel.

Through family I have a 2nd safe location in NC 140 miles away.

Kids live far away so traveling solo.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

videodork said:


> i pick old sf guy for my team!!!!!


Sorry. I called "Dibbs" on him a long time ago. Go find your own....


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

bigdogbuc said:


> Sorry. I called "Dibbs" on him a long time ago. Go find your own....


Sorry videodork, but bigdog has my favorite buddy in the world that brings me happiness, and I gotta go with him on his team...


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Old SF Guy said:


> Sorry videodork, but bigdog has my favorite buddy in the world that brings me happiness, and I gotta go with him on his team...


Can me and the Mrs hang with ya'll? I promise we can keep BigDog subdued enough so the laughter from his jokes will not give us all away.


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Bidog is married - remember he has like forty six kids.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

OK I had to delete some posts cause that was a blatant hi-jacking of his thread...sorry....and back to your regularly scheduled what would you do if.... thread......


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Yep. Give them a glimpse of Mr. Sig. They are dumb but they aint stupid. They know the are fixing to get lit up.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Hmmm....I recognize these signs....me thinks they are like tracks I have made myself...in recent days...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Kahlan said:


> You guys are no fun!! I wanna hear some real answers. This is how I learn!


Playing survival Dungeons and Dragons isn't much of a way to learn. :-x


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Denton said:


> Playing survival Dungeons and Dragons isn't much of a way to learn. :-x


Not true denton...there are many folks who don't understand about not leaving trails directly into their hide site, or about establishing outer security before you do localized work..or about planning for where to go and how to signify you've gone there.

I usually don't play to many of these games, but when they offer me a chance to talk about some tactical considerations I will.

trust me the moment my forte of drinking becomes a topic for good prepper discussion...imma jump on that one too.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

There will be two adults (self included) and a dog in our pod. It is AZ so the days are nice, 80 Degrees - shorts and sandals weather (anyone got a margarita machine in the bob?). But nights are another story, 40 degrees - sometimes as low as 28.

We live near the edge of the Tonto National Forest. With in about a three day hike, I can make it to some Hohokam Indian ruins that will allow visibility from the Mesa and are near a stream. Hunting will be limited to small game like squirrels and bunnies.


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

Denton said:


> Playing survival Dungeons and Dragons isn't much of a way to learn. :-x


I'd much rather read and absorb as many different ideas and suggestions as I can before I decide to just go pack a bag and travel into the wilderness to learn that way with no skills, knowledge or experience. I think this is a great way to learn.


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## videodork (Dec 8, 2014)

bigdogbuc said:


> Sorry. I called "Dibbs" on him a long time ago. Go find your own....


Danggit


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Inor said:


> Can me and the Mrs hang with ya'll? I promise we can keep BigDog subdued enough so the laughter from his jokes will not give us all away.


And no one invites me 

Who is going to attract the ladies with their ruggered good looks and sexy Australian accent... NOT ME AS IM NOT A HIPPIE SURFIE...

To the game, would raid osfgs camp with beer and rum, and party, ask me what happens after the hangover... 

More seriously, adapt, overcome, survive.... If we (my family doesn't survive) shit happens, I done all I can do, and if my luck is that bad.... I die knowing I done all possible... So shelter is a "a frame" shelter, quick and easy  and I gave up with all the rules, no cool guns for me, no toys, just a bow (that only the kids are aloud...)


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

RoyLanchester said:


> What region? If it's in my home state than heat isn't as important as shelter and water. Also the type of forest makes a difference in flora and fuana and what tools is bring.
> 
> Also do I have to bring my daughters husband or can I use him as bait?


In the right conditions you can die from hypothermia in all 50 states. So being able to make fire and shelter is important to survival. Thinking that because you live in a warm clement and not preparing for all contingencies can get you and your party killed.

The region doesn't matter. It's how you would do it in your area.

Yes you can bring your daughters husband. If he is worthless then yes use him for bait.


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

Diver said:


> Re: Condition 2. I accept that I may not make it the same day. I do not accept that I cannot make it period. Our BOBs have tents, we make camp and move on the next day.


Not being able to adapt will get your killed!


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

Ripon said:


> Its your game and you get to play it as you want, but I just can't accept #2 since I've made so many efforts to insure that is exactly the case (both caches on the way and the bug out location). I don't aim to / want too crap on your game and rules but if something was preventing me from "moving on" towards my bug out location its called death. Otherwise I keep moving with that in mind no matter how slow, how difficult or how seemingly impossible. In fact I enjoy (since planning is free) looking at all the different possible ways that reaching my bug out are possible.
> 
> Let me give you some examples of the extremes I've gone too in order to insure I don't get bogged down and have to 'sit" and shelter in the woods on the way to my BOL.
> 
> ...


This is why people die in survival situations. Thy think they have all the answers and bases covered, When the situations differ they stay on mission and fail to adapt.


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

Old SF Guy said:


> Hell I will play. I'm bored.
> 
> I have 4 kids, but two will be in the Navy, so I plan for 2 kids, 13 and 16. They have bows and arrows and can use them to take an animal. I have the wife and then me. So 4 altogether.
> 
> ...


Good answer more than it asked for but good answer! Instead of bringing in coals have you ever considered using a Dakota fire pit in your shelter?


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

videodork said:


> i pick old sf guy for my team!!!!!


You will have to marry him see condition 3


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## videodork (Dec 8, 2014)

Tennessee said:


> You will have to marry him see condition 3


In my state, that's allowed. Unfortunately, in my house, it's not.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Tennessee said:


> Here's the deal. The SHTF, you have to leave your home on foot. You and your family have to head out into the forest to escape. You get to a point in the forest that you feel safe. Winter is coming.
> 
> Conditions:
> 
> ...


Not enough info! What kind of shtf are we talking? It makes a huge difference. Ditto for leaving house AND car behind? And why can't you grab anything besides the bob's? Answer some of these and maybe the answers we give will mean something.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

First off, . . . unless my fort is destroyed or made inhabitable by bio or nukey attack, . . . I'm staying put.

BUT, . . . if I do have to leave, . . . shelter will be a sleeping bag, . . . under some sort of tree, . . . along the south side of some kind of hill or knoll if I can find it.

Heat means fire, . . . means light and smoke, . . . both dead give aways of your presence. AND, . . . a tent of any kind deadens your sound catching capability, . . . I want to hear what is going on around me and mebbeeeeeee, be ready if I need to do more than just sleep off some of the tiredness.

We will not be hunting and fishing, . . . unless a prime opportunity presents itself, . . . that will not cause a serious time loss, . . . we will be moving. I'm too old to live out in the wilderness any more for much over a couple nights, . . . so I'm on my way to relatives or friends.

May God bless, 
Dwight


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## Prepp(g)er (Feb 18, 2014)

Kahlan said:


> I'd much rather read and absorb as many different ideas and suggestions as I can before I decide to just go pack a bag and travel into the wilderness to learn that way with no skills, knowledge or experience. I think this is a great way to learn.


A bag, even packed without skills or knowledge, is better than having nothing..every little thing counts imo


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

Prepp(g)er said:


> A bag, even packed without skills or knowledge, is better than having nothing..every little thing counts imo


Yes, I have a bag. And I'm not completely without skills or knowledge. I know the basics. My point was just that I wanted to hear people's ideas. It's been my experience here that everybody has a lot of different opinions and ideas and I enjoy hearing them all and learning from them. No such thing as too much knowledge.


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

Kahlan said:


> I'd much rather read and absorb as many different ideas and suggestions as I can before I decide to just go pack a bag and travel into the wilderness to learn that way with no skills, knowledge or experience. I think this is a great way to learn.


Thanks Kahlan,

This was what I was trying to do is let everyone see how other people would handle the same situation. Maybe someone would learn different ways to build and heat a shelter. Who knows where you will be when the SHTF. Maybe it was a bad ideal. I think it's makes people uncomfortable thinking out of their perceived box. They have put a lot of time and resources in the way they think the SHFT is going to happen and no one even the event itself is going to change it.


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

This is my answer 

There 13 of us so we are going to have more than one shelter. I have an ax, saw and shovel in my BOB. First I would dig a Dakota fire pit that ran the length of the shelter. The pit and the tunnel can be lined with flat stones that we got out of the stream and then covered with dirt/mud. The chimney can be made of rock and mud to. Then I would build a shelter over the pit using wood cut using the saw and ax. The roofs would be made using the tarps in my wife’s and my bag. The fire pit will act like a rocket stove and the smoke would be minimum inside and out. The heat from fire's exhaust will heat and dry the shelter floor so a small fire will do.


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## videodork (Dec 8, 2014)

Tennessee said:


> Thanks Kahlan,
> 
> This was what I was trying to do is let everyone see how other people would handle the same situation. Maybe someone would learn different ways to build and heat a shelter. Who knows where you will be when the SHTF. Maybe it was a bad ideal. I think it's makes people uncomfortable thinking out of their perceived box. They have put a lot of time and resources in the way they think the SHFT is going to happen and no one even the event itself is going to change it.


Yep, as a result of this thread, I'm learning what a Dakota fire pit is. I liked this thread even if _*some *_people didn't play along and wanted to be Susie Serious


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Tennessee

The situation you describe is at best temporary. While you may be safe if you don't travel too far, eventually somebody will either find you of figure out you are around. 

With winter coming on nights will be cooler so my shelter would be constructed fairly tight so as to, cut down on drafts and reflect or contain heat, cooking or heating can be accomplished inside with a small collapsible twig stove from the bob. The shelter would be made using the heavy knife or a hatchet from the bob and from natural materials, In an effort to stay concealed I want my shelter to blend in with the surroundings.

Since it is safe to hunt and fish, I would focus on fishing, though I would not pass up an opportunity to take game if the situation presented it's self. From the bob, yoyos and hooks for fishing, a wrist rocket for small game. I would be inclined to save my rifle ammunition for defensive use. 

My day would be split between two tasks procuring food and probing the obstacle or what ever it is that stands between me and where I need to go (BOL or cache). 

Where there is a will there is a way. It is a matter of using what I brought along in the BOB to help me adapt to the environment, while I look for a way to overcome the barrier that is keeping me from getting to where I am going. Because spending a winter in the woods living out of a BOB, is really not an option.


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## Dubyagee (Nov 9, 2012)

Im taking over a bridge. 50 cents or a can of soup to pass. Ill live forever. Muwahahaha


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

Last time I walked into a forest I was eaten by a grue...


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Yes, but more likely because people fail to plan.

As you can see I don't fail to plan. The scenario you present just includes a falsehood to my way of thinking. In no circumstance would I stay in a remote setting when I have a well planned BOL ahead of me. Every thing I do would be to get me there. Stopping and building shelter would thus not make sense. I can definitely see where it would to many and for those I can't help.

Think of it this way. Suppose your folks were alive, maintained a cabin in the woods that was more than 100% sustainable. Clearly you'd want to get there wouldn't you? Can you imagine a circumstance where you'd stop trying to get there? I can't. Other than death I can't see any reason why I'd want to stop and live anywhere else.



Tennessee said:


> This is why people die in survival situations. Thy think they have all the answers and bases covered, When the situations differ they stay on mission and fail to adapt.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I simply take the question at face value...something happened that prevents you from going where you wanted to go...and now you have to exist...for a time...in a specified area....how do you plan to do it.

I agree that this is a bad situation....but I accepted it as a SHTF situation within a SHTF situation...and I came up with my proposed actions based on simplified tactics and generalities...because in truth I know not what lies ahead...but I have prepared myself well in adaptation and basic skills, as well as advanced planning that at least gives me a solid foundation to adapt from.


a further SHTF would be...your now incapacitated...what do you do...it can go on and on and on.


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Tennessee said:


> Here's the deal. The SHTF, you have to leave your home on foot. You and your family have to head out into the forest to escape. You get to a point in the forest that you feel safe. Winter is coming.
> 
> First Task.


Your first task is easy .......

Hopefully you were smart enough to take my compass course here on the forum and have since purchased a quality Orienteering Compass. :cocksure:


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

In Nova Scotia, we are talking hundreds of years of people living here. This is not British Columbia where 85% of the land is crown land forests. In NS, it is more like 30% crown land,but it is much less than 30% near my home. Once, all the remote areas of Nova Scotia are factored in, we simply do not have enough forests within walking distance to make this a viable option. imo, the nearby crown land forests will be more dangerous than the roads. 

Besides, I have to deal with a wife with arthritis in her knees. We certainly are not playing grizzly adams and taking off into the forest unless it is a pre planned BOL which we can drive to.


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## longrider (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm still thinking this through. My brain hurts. I like the first post you made, Old SF Guy. I hadn't thought about the spiraling route in and out. Thanks! I have wrist rockets and bows and arrows. Guns too, but don't want anyone to know I'm out there. And yes. I'd try to get to BOL. Wouldn't want to stay in the woods indefinitely. Who knows who might stumble onto your camp?

Old SF Guy, what kind of signals would you use, to alert the family of danger approaching? How would you let them know what direction to head? I bought a couple of tree stands this year, at garage sales, for look-out towers in the trees. But they would be at my BOL. Actually, most of my stuff is at the BOL. My BoB is just for 3 days, tops, at running home. (OK, this chubby girl isn't running far or fast anywhere. I'm working on it, though.) I _am_ a fast walker, so can really knock down the miles. I have construction grade garbage bag for temp shelter, would do the cowboy trick of moving fire and sleeping over the warm spot. I gotta think more. Thanks for the metal exercise.

My brain really hurts now.:ambivalence:


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

Ripon said:


> Yes, but more likely because people fail to plan.
> 
> As you can see I don't fail to plan. The scenario you present just includes a falsehood to my way of thinking. In no circumstance would I stay in a remote setting when I have a well planned BOL ahead of me. Every thing I do would be to get me there. Stopping and building shelter would thus not make sense. I can definitely see where it would to many and for those I can't help.
> 
> Think of it this way. Suppose your folks were alive, maintained a cabin in the woods that was more than 100% sustainable. Clearly you'd want to get there wouldn't you? Can you imagine a circumstance where you'd stop trying to get there? I can't. Other than death I can't see any reason why I'd want to stop and live anywhere else.


The exercise was to see how you would survive/thrive in situation with the conditions given. And maybe someone can learn from you. Not to make the conditions and situation fit it your Bugout plan. To bugout to a location that you have stored food and equipment for years is not surviving it's moving. I think a lot of preppers are going to die like you said you will if you can't get to your Bugout location. Because they don't know how to survive when the situation doesn't work out as planned.

Say you and your family are on vacation and driving to Disney land and EMP hits. Your car is EMP proof. So you turn around and head to your Bugout location. About 1000 miles from your Bugout location you come across a road block. The people behind the road block shoots out your tires and engine. You and your family escape into the woods. You have no food or water. You only have your CC weapon and a knife. You are not dressed for the weather but you were able to get to one of your get home bags. What is your plan now?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Ripon said:


> Yes, but more likely because people fail to plan.
> 
> As you can see I don't fail to plan. The scenario you present just includes a falsehood to my way of thinking. In no circumstance would I stay in a remote setting when I have a well planned BOL ahead of me. Every thing I do would be to get me there. Stopping and building shelter would thus not make sense. I can definitely see where it would to many and for those I can't help.
> 
> Think of it this way. Suppose your folks were alive, maintained a cabin in the woods that was more than 100% sustainable. Clearly you'd want to get there wouldn't you? Can you imagine a circumstance where you'd stop trying to get there? I can't. Other than death I can't see any reason why I'd want to stop and live anywhere else.


I can imagine a circumstance easily: someone got there ahead of you, they're heavily armed, they have friends staying with them, and their plans don't include handing the place over to you! See? Hardly any imagination necessary.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

No time to answer now but I think these type of threads are a good way to brainstorm and get some ideas. Lots of good ones already in this one thread.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

It is nearly impossible to plan for every everything. In general yes, it's fairly easy to put together the basics and essential items. The road block may have been avoided by being hyper vigilant and scouting ahead. There are times when being paranoid is useful. 

In that scenario, by getting into the woods you have probably gotten past the obstacle, yet in doing so find yourself in a completely different set of circumstances to adapt to. Such factors as time distance and weather that were mitigated when you were traveling by car, are now stacked against you in such a way that your odds of survival are diminished. 

You would have to assume that the road blockers are aware that you got away and are likely to send out a search party. So if you were not hyper vigilant before the road block this would be a good time to reconsider taking it up a notch. 

A lot may depend on how much further you have to travel to reach your destination, if you pulled the keys or have a spare on you when you bailed out into the woods you may or may not try to reacquire your vehicle. A running vehicle post EMP may be valuable and worth sticking around for. Although I'd let them fix the tires they shot out before attempting to get it back. 

On the other hand if you are close enough to your destination to walk it out in a few days or weeks that may be the better way to go. If you have a bug out location that you are going to and it is not currently occupied. The longer it sits vacant the more likely it will be occupied. Probably by somebody who wasn't paying attention, encountered a road block and made it safely into the woods.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

I'd just grab my Bob and head to work. No one will be there, surrounded by 2 fences and we'll stocked with food/water. May not be my permanent residents but it'll do great until the dust settles and I can really assess the situation.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Great example.

In your original scenario I took it as though you suggested one should build / develop / prep their location for the "long haul" which was the mere premise I can't do. That is because my premise is to move, move and keep moving. I have no problem taking 3 years to get to my BOL if I have too in a horrid situation, but be assured each and every day my effort will be to continue moving in that general direction. We are all so different Tennessee for you couldn't know my BOL is my first home right now - its my house. I live in CA for work and spend every minute not there at my home in NV - which is also my BOL. And my BOL is not a bunch of stored goods its a sustainable residence complete with opportunities for advanced development and growth. The only thing better would be if it were still my fathers and he was there waiting for us to arrive but he passed some years ago.

To try and reply to your thinking please understand mine. I'm thinking of making a few feet, a mile if I'm lucky, or three miles if I am really lucky each day into my general direction. I'm pretty good at hunting, pretty good at gathering and great at avoiding others. I am a firm believer of moving when others are not - (late late night / early AM). I'd believe in hunkering down at first light and staying that way until the next pre dawn hour enables me to move ahead. I'm not afraid to study another party from a distance, for days if need be, and then make contact if it looks reasoned to try and barter for improvements simply to move on and get where I need to be. Ultimately I'd be better off in a territory where I would not come across anyone, but its likely that's not possible in CA heading to NV.

Surviving would be finding food, providing defense, and having clean water. Thriving would be making progress towards where I want to be.



Tennessee said:


> The exercise was to see how you would survive/thrive in situation with the conditions given. And maybe someone can learn from you. Not to make the conditions and situation fit it your Bugout plan. To bugout to a location that you have stored food and equipment for years is not surviving it's moving. I think a lot of preppers are going to die like you said you will if you can't get to your Bugout location. Because they don't know how to survive when the situation doesn't work out as planned.
> 
> Say you and your family are on vacation and driving to Disney land and EMP hits. Your car is EMP proof. So you turn around and head to your Bugout location. About 1000 miles from your Bugout location you come across a road block. The people behind the road block shoots out your tires and engine. You and your family escape into the woods. You have no food or water. You only have your CC weapon and a knife. You are not dressed for the weather but you were able to get to one of your get home bags. What is your plan now?


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

Ripon said:


> Great example.
> 
> To try and reply to your thinking please understand mine. I'm thinking of making a few feet, a mile if I'm lucky, or three miles if I am really lucky each day into my general direction. I'm pretty good at hunting, pretty good at gathering and great at avoiding others. I am a firm believer of moving when others are not - (late late night / early AM). I'd believe in hunkering down at first light and staying that way until the next pre dawn hour enables me to move ahead. I'm not afraid to study another party from a distance, for days if need be, and then make contact if it looks reasoned to try and barter for improvements simply to move on and get where I need to be. Ultimately I'd be better off in a territory where I would not come across anyone, but its likely that's not possible in CA heading to NV.
> 
> Surviving would be finding food, providing defense, and having clean water. Thriving would be making progress towards where I want to be.


I've only been prepping for a few years but I've been a survivalist for most of my life. I have no problems being in the woods. I have a hard time understanding when I hear that someone has got lost in the woods and died due to the elements or lack of food and water. Especially in the Appalachian Mountains where there are so many resources if you know how and where to look.

But I think people tend to get hung up on their BOL and all their preps and forget about bush craft and survival skills. In survival situations it's the comfort you have in your knowledge and abilities that will get you though not your preps.

Don't get me wrong I do understand what you are talking about and your desire to get to your BOL. And this exercise wasn't design to cast criticism on your bugout plans. I too have a BOL and items stored and within reason try to get there. Because having these things make survival in a SHTF a lot easier and with a lot less risk. But believe me when I tell you that I will not die or put my family in jeopardy trying to get to my BOL or my caches. My only worries in a SHTF event are the two legged kind, leave me alone in the woods or BOL and I will do just fine.


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## OC40 (Sep 16, 2014)

Well... I'm going to be no fun for this one. 
A. IF I need to bug out... I'm not approved to do so, at least for another 18ish months. 

B. IF I need to bug out on foot, I screwed up... I've been known to take impromptu camping trips (read into that as you will). When is the last time SHTF and we didn't see it coming? Seriously, between the net, news, and just good common sense 99% of the time we can see whats coming. Short of a NBC/CBR attack, 99% of us who are being honest with our loved ones should be acting/planning and aware of the "issues" days ahead that could cause a impromptu camping trip. 

I know this sounds crazy, but location, work, and every day life defines how you best wish to respond to SHTF. I'm moving my family for this very reason. I want to be able to better address the concerns I see as "strongly possible" in the near future. I've been through something as simple as losing everything to a house fire to hurricanes and even water outages. Have a plan, know the plan, execute the plan, but know you can't plan for everything so develop a plan that is flexible. As I've moved more from Prepping to Self sustaining I see two schools of thought. 

1. I'm going to plan for Armageddon and all these other Ultimate WAWKIT (world as we know it) theories. The only issue is they tend to only focus on the big picture. This sort of person has 10000k rounds of ammo but no cleaning kit for the firearms... or answers with "ill just hunt" or "grow food" but has never dressed out a deer let alone knows the growing seasons. 

2.The other school of thought and thankfully it seems to be a more common one is the "get through" approach. Short term: 3 days to 12 months of relying on stores put aside. They also understand that prepping is to get you through to "whats to come next". This brings us full circle to... find me an event that would cause a family to bug out on foot that we couldn't see on the horizon? Outside of NBC/CBR events which you are screwed if they occur anyway. 

Sudden police state?? News is going to be feeding us that debate for weeks if not months before it happens. 
Major storm? I'd be gone fast before they had to tell me to leave
Fire to the house? I'm insured and have assets to pay for immediate needs. (money talks)
Unrest in the city? See above... 
Flooding... don't live in a flood plain, pay attention to the weather. 
Earthquake...I've lived in earth quake country for two tours, be insured, have assets for immediate needs and have a cache stored outside of the home but on property. Hint Hint: yard shed. 

99% of the time you see people become dead because they didn't plan and needed to wander from the home during these events. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that as the head of the family, it is my job to ensure they are not sneaking out in the cover of darkness to the BOL on foot. We should be in "movement" by the best possible means that draws the least attention well before it comes to that. When you have kids movement becomes difficult, being on foot should be the last of your choices. Kids are going to be the most stressed out members of the "family team". 

A few months ago I stumbled over a comment that has become one of my guiding principals...

You are planning when others are ignoring 
You are moving when others are planning
You are digging in when others are moving
You are ONLY half a step ahead keep planning...


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

longrider said:


> I'm still thinking this through. My brain hurts. I like the first post you made, Old SF Guy. I hadn't thought about the spiraling route in and out. Thanks! I have wrist rockets and bows and arrows. Guns too, but don't want anyone to know I'm out there. And yes. I'd try to get to BOL. Wouldn't want to stay in the woods indefinitely. Who knows who might stumble onto your camp?
> 
> Old SF Guy, what kind of signals would you use, to alert the family of danger approaching? How would you let them know what direction to head? I bought a couple of tree stands this year, at garage sales, for look-out towers in the trees. But they would be at my BOL. Actually, most of my stuff is at the BOL. My BoB is just for 3 days, tops, at running home. (OK, this chubby girl isn't running far or fast anywhere. I'm working on it, though.) I _am_ a fast walker, so can really knock down the miles. I have construction grade garbage bag for temp shelter, would do the cowboy trick of moving fire and sleeping over the warm spot. I gotta think more. Thanks for the metal exercise.
> 
> My brain really hurts now.:ambivalence:


I would do things like bend over small trees and other secret squirrel stuff I don't want to talk about.


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## jeep123 (Nov 6, 2014)

I live in one of the 5 likeliest cities to be NBC'd, you guess which one. So if that happens, we may be on foot because my car won't start.

In any case, if I have to be on foot, I can't run out the door. I only have crappy packs right now, and my dad (who i assist) is not real mobile. Meaning, I can't leave quickly anyway, so I have time to pack my gear in whatever pack i do have.

Step 1: take grocery cart from store, because I have to move gear for at least 2 people. 
Step 2: put dad in cart or wheelchair, wear pack, carry tools, start moving toward higher ground. The closest to "chaos" my area has come is unforeseen blackouts. Its amazing how people panic when simple services are cut off. And the riff raff tend to move downhill

If I'm planning ahead, I should get us all some bikes. And plan to either get a carbureted stroke atv (that can tow a trailer) or figure out a way to protect my car from emp damage(not the likeliest of problems, but its on the list)


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

OC40 said:


> Outside of NBC/CBR events which you are screwed if they occur anyway. ..


That is exactly my point. Most people are going to be screwed when they can't get to their BOL in a NBC/CBR event. Time, distance and shielding will fix or lessen the effects or exposure to a NBC/CBR event. To achieve TDS you might have to head away from your BOL.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

This has gone 6 pages.... I am surprised


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## DerBiermeister (Aug 15, 2014)

Old SF Guy said:


> and I have about 5 more that I won't discuss.


Why not?


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

DerBiermeister said:


> Why not?


I'll tell you what...you give me your ATM pin number and I'll give you all five. this is not a private, secure location...that's why.


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## longrider (Mar 25, 2013)

Thank you OSFG for telling us one sign. I know you didn't want to, but did anyway. Thanks. I'll have to study on this some, and come up with some signals, code, etc.

The hardest part of the original scenario is my granddaughter. She likes to be noisy. Come to think of it, a lot of the noises she makes actually sound growly. It might not be a bad thing. :Yikes: I haven't yet heard from my "knitting group" about thoughts on the scenarios here. I hope to by this weekend. I'll be working on the PVC dog carts then. I'll post how they work out. If I could ever figure out how to post a picture here :roll: I will post pix.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

longrider said:


> Thank you OSFG for telling us one sign. I know you didn't want to, but did anyway. Thanks. I'll have to study on this some, and come up with some signals, code, etc.
> 
> The hardest part of the original scenario is my granddaughter. She likes to be noisy. Come to think of it, a lot of the noises she makes actually sound growly. It might not be a bad thing. :Yikes: I haven't yet heard from my "knitting group" about thoughts on the scenarios here. I hope to by this weekend. I'll be working on the PVC dog carts then. I'll post how they work out. If I could ever figure out how to post a picture here :roll: I will post pix.


Thank you


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

I would join friends, if the SHTF. 
granted, they may have a few steps ahead of me.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

longrider said:


> I'm still thinking this through. My brain hurts. I like the first post you made, Old SF Guy. I hadn't thought about the spiraling route in and out. Thanks! I have wrist rockets and bows and arrows. Guns too, but don't want anyone to know I'm out there. And yes. I'd try to get to BOL. Wouldn't want to stay in the woods indefinitely. Who knows who might stumble onto your camp?
> 
> Old SF Guy, what kind of signals would you use, to alert the family of danger approaching? How would you let them know what direction to head? I bought a couple of tree stands this year, at garage sales, for look-out towers in the trees. But they would be at my BOL. Actually, most of my stuff is at the BOL. My BoB is just for 3 days, tops, at running home. (OK, this chubby girl isn't running far or fast anywhere. I'm working on it, though.) I _am_ a fast walker, so can really knock down the miles. I have construction grade garbage bag for temp shelter, would do the cowboy trick of moving fire and sleeping over the warm spot. I gotta think more. Thanks for the metal exercise.
> 
> My brain really hurts now.:ambivalence:


If you look around on the net you can find different trip wire devices to alert you of a threat.

Here is a couple of links to some 12 gauge (flare/blanks) trip wire devices.

http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Gadgets.html

12 GA perimeter alarm

I have several of these as perimeter alarms.


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> If you look around on the net you can find different trip wire devices to alert you of a threat.
> 
> Here is a couple of links to some 12 gauge (flare/blanks) trip wire devices.
> 
> ...


Last year at our camping spot we had a few encounters with bears. The alarms that you get at the dollar store aren't loud enough and were not water proof. So I decided to build my own. Here's the parts list.

1.	9v battery (.99 cents)
2.	9v battery connectors
2.	102dB Piezo Siren ($5.19)
3.	Directed Electronics 8601 Magnetic Switch NO/NC (7.49)
4.	2" PVC cap and pipe.
5 I bolt

To build this you cut your PVC pipe approximate 4-6 inches. Wire the switch, siren and 9 v battery connector in series. Make sure you use the normally open connections on the magnet switch. Then hot glue the speaker and switch inside the pipe. Install a I bolt in the trigger cap. Sand the cap inside/outside of the pipe to make it pulls away easy. Glue the magnet part of the switch into the cap. You will need to test the position you glue the magnet to insure contact. Install battery and battery cap ( the other PVC pipe cap). Then tie a fishing line to the I bolts and when the line pulls the magnet cap away from the switch the alarm will sound.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

I don't like my chances that either our hunting or gathering abilities would keep us alive in northern Missouri until the spring thaw while we were simultaneously trying to camp out in the woods with a tarp, some paracord, and a couple of sleeping bags. Were we really caught in such a scenario, we'd be holing up inside an abandoned hay bale in an abandoned barn, eating an angus from a neighbor's herd. Those things we actually have around here in abundance. Sorry neighbor, I'll pay ya back when the scenario's over.

If it's a matter of a shorter period of time? Use big piles of leaves you find in the draws around here both for under-bedding (cold ground really sucks body heat) and to burrow into. Sleep in that draw on top of Lots of leaves over the ice -- keeps us out of sight and out of the wind. You can usually find a downed tree in those pretty quickly; that will let us rig a tarp over it easily to keep off the snow. Fire of downed wood (also plentiful) and we've got good tinder and lighters in the bag. Layer the good outdoor waterproof BOB clothes over our normal wear; that'll keep us pretty warm. The food in the BOB would stretch to a week; we've got bottles to melt ice in and purifiers to get the Giardia out of it afterwards.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

Here is my situation. We are surrounded by woods, scattered homes,40 miles to the everglades as the crow flies where we would work our way to. we walk everyday at least 5 miles have walked up to 9 miles, we walk a steady 20 minute mile. We do this not only to stay in shape but to stay prepared just in case we are on the run as in your game. ( But we have no plans of leaving our home. It is set up to bug in). We have two BOB's weapons are readily available to grab and go. We both were raised in family's that hunted a lot and did a lot of camping. We Camped out a lot in our younger years with the kids. We now go out and go to wilderness areas and camp. living in SW Florida we don't have the cold to deal with. So all in all we will do ok.


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## eferred (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm not building anything above ground. It's just too likely to be burned, found, shot up, etc. I'd use my hammock/tarp until I could finish a small dugout, if i could not get to the one that's already in place.


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