# How Low Will Silver Go?



## A Watchman

Silver has been below most investors buying point of $14.40 for several days. I just checked and it is at $14.10. The mints were out and backordered in late September, and now seem to be well stocked. I occasionally buy, any of you real precious metal hoarders have any other idea as to the maintained current low streak?

https://comparesilverprices.com/


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## Mosinator762x54r

I just bought my first silver last month. I need an education on this topic big time. I paid a little extra for something specific I was looking for on the first go round, but now I need quantity especially now that prices are low...suggestions!!! Please and thanks.


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## Montana Rancher

Its funny that the price is, where i first purchased my first serious silver and that was about 2009? I didn't really pay attention but I think when I first started investing was about that time.

The funny-ish thing I have noticed is when I first started buying silver I decided to get "junk" silver which are basically coins minted in USA having the date 1964 or lower, those are the 90% silver coins. (P.S Nickles and penney's dont count except in rare situations)

So in 2009 I was buying "junk" silver (which includes 120 year old Morgan silver dollars) for the melt value.

See Current Melt Value Of Coins - How Much Is Your Coin Worth? for current melt valuest

Although silver prices have been very flat, the prices of "junk" coins has continued to increase as the supply has dried up.

So now my 1890 Morgan that I purchased for melt value for $11 dollars a few years ago is now bidding in the $28 range. This is a nothing special coin except for its age and the fact that people are not selling them.

My Eagles are not nearly as much but this is a waiting game, eventually when the fiat currency fails I will be golden (in silver, sic)


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## PatriotFlamethrower

I've been involved in silver and gold buying for many years. I have been a "silver guy" for many years now, and silver is the only precious metal that I buy.

My advice is to not sweat the small decreases, or the small increases. I have stated this before in this forum, and I will state it again.............silver will NEVER go below $10.00 per ounce.

If you are buying silver as a hedge against the collapse of fiat currency, GOOD FOR YOU! If you are buying silver as a SHTF legitimate "currency", GOOD FOR YOU AGAIN!

Here are some simple rules to follow, when buying silver:

1. Do NOT buy Morgan Silver Dollars, Peace Silver Dollars, or any other "collector" coins. The premiums above melt value are ridiculous. Also, contrary to popular belief, Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars do NOT contain one ounce of silver each. They each contain 0.77 ounces of silver.

2. Do NOT buy silver bars, or silver rounds, or silver ANYTHING from private mints. In a SHTF world, you have no way of proving that the privately minted silver is really silver.

3. The best buy is, and has always been, the so-called "junk silver", U.S. minted pre-1965 half dollars, quarters, and dimes. You will are probably going to pay up to a 20-30% premium over spot price, due to the demand being very high right now, but you will still get the most bang for your buck with "junk silver". My favorite "junk silver" coin is the Franklin Half Dollar. ALL Franklin half dollars that were minted, are 90% silver, and they are usually in very good condition, because they were not circulated as often as quarters and dimes.

4. Silver American Eagles are a good investment also, but the premiums above melt value are always very high.

I buy all of my "junk silver" on e-Bay. I don't mess around with coin dealers.


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## sideKahr

Do not concern yourself with the paper-driven price of PMs. An ounce is an ounce. Hold PMs for insurance against a dollar collapse. In that event, the price will make you more than happy. If in the interim you can take a nice profit on a spike, do so and consider it a gift. As always, buy low: that's now.


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## tango

I don't know how low silver will go, but, I am buying some today.


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## A Watchman

sideKahr said:


> Do not concern yourself with the paper-driven price of PMs. An ounce is an ounce. Hold PMs for insurance against a dollar collapse. In that event, the price will make you more than happy. If in the interim you can take a nice profit on a spike, do so and consider it a gift. As always, buy low: that's now.


Agreed ^^^^^^^ Buy low, which is now and use it as a hedge against fiat currency (the collapse of the US dollar). Worst case you won't take a hit at $14 ish if all of a sudden the world turns rosy........... On second thought double up on your monthly buying allowance.


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## Arklatex

Looks like it's time for another purchase. Most of my silver was bought around the 18-20 dollar price. When I encounter pre 64 coins I keep them, but I just don't have it in me to spend the price per ounce ordering dimes and quarters online... Its a mental block. I stick with eagles.

By the way silver is not magnetic, that can help you verify that a private minted round is actually .999 fine silver.


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## Gimble

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> 2. Do NOT buy silver bars, or silver rounds, or silver ANYTHING from private mints. In a SHTF world, you have no way of proving that the privately minted silver is really silver.


Is there a reliable private mint to get bars from?


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## Denton

Gimble said:


> Is there a reliable private mint to get bars from?


I buy from NWTM. Silver Bars, Silver Coins, Gold Coins and Bars, Palladium and Platinum Bullion Available to Buy
I like the Stagecoach Silver because of the novelty ("For When You Have To Get Out Of Dodge") and that it breaks into quarter pieces).


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## Seneca

I've been watching the silver market closely over the past couple of weeks and the price of silver keeps dropping. I get psyched up thinking today is the day I'm going to buy silver and then the price drops a bit so I wait and the price drops a bit more so I wait to see if the price will drop some more. I'm nearly to the point of just saying screw it, and buying some damn silver.


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## Gimble

Seneca said:


> I've been watching the silver market closely over the past couple of weeks and the price of silver keeps dropping. I get psyched up thinking today is the day I'm going to buy silver and then the price drops a bit so I wait and the price drops a bit more so I wait to see if the price will drop some more. I'm nearly to the point of just saying screw it, and buying some damn silver.


You'll never be able to predict the lowest price it will go to... just go get it already ;-)


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## Gimble

Denton said:


> I buy from NWTM. Silver Bars, Silver Coins, Gold Coins and Bars, Palladium and Platinum Bullion Available to Buy
> I like the Stagecoach Silver because of the novelty ("For When You Have To Get Out Of Dodge") and that it breaks into quarter pieces).


I've never heard of them and if we crossed paths, you'd have to convince me that NWTN is legit. Right now I'm sure they are...but post SHTF if you have silver and I have beef that you want...well we're at an impasse.

In order for me to make an eagle, I'd have to be REALLY good at counterfeiting, in order for me to make an "unknown branded" bar, I'd just have to have a decent press and some pretty graphics. That's only because you and I both know what an eagle looks like, but only one of us knows what an NWTN bar looks like.

We all know what dollars look like and we've all used them for so long there is hardly a question in either of our minds. And if you gave me bad bills that I just accepted, the chances are that I could pass those bad bills along and somebody else would just accept them too.

For a hedge against the dollar collapsing, they are perfect. There will be somebody around who knows what to do with them and you'll be able to get whatever the new money is. But you've got a period of time between SHTF and infrastructure coming back before you can use them.

Am I missing something?


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## A Watchman

Seneca said:


> I've been watching the silver market closely over the past couple of weeks and the price of silver keeps dropping. I get psyched up thinking today is the day I'm going to buy silver and then the price drops a bit so I wait and the price drops a bit more so I wait to see if the price will drop some more. I'm nearly to the point of just saying screw it, and buying some damn silver.


Add up the difference.... unless you are dropping major dollars, the small difference does not matter. This is a hedge against our fiat currency collapsing available at the lowest price in months. Buy NOW.


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## A Watchman

Duplicated.


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## A Watchman

Gimble said:


> I've never heard of them and if we crossed paths, you'd have to convince me that NWTN is legit. Right now I'm sure they are...but post SHTF if you have silver and I have beef that you want...well we're at an impasse.
> 
> In order for me to make an eagle, I'd have to be REALLY good at counterfeiting, in order for me to make an "unknown branded" bar, I'd just have to have a decent press and some pretty graphics. That's only because you and I both know what an eagle looks like, but only one of us knows what an NWTN bar looks like.
> 
> We all know what dollars look like and we've all used them for so long there is hardly a question in either of our minds. And if you gave me bad bills that I just accepted, the chances are that I could pass those bad bills along and somebody else would just accept them too.
> 
> For a hedge against the dollar collapsing, they are perfect. There will be somebody around who knows what to do with them and you'll be able to get whatever the new money is. But you've got a period of time between SHTF and infrastructure coming back before you can use them.
> 
> Am I missing something?


No Sir, you are spot on.


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## A Watchman

Gimble said:


> Is there a reliable private mint to get bars from?


https://comparesilverprices.com/

All major suppliers and mints listed with pricing, links to their websites, and the always current spot price as well as a trending graph. Have fun.


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## sideKahr

Gimble, you are right about the American Silver Eagle. Not only have I bought them, but I have sold them, too. No questions are asked at my local coin shop. They will buy as many as I want to sell. The cost of the trip in and out is probably the smallest of any type of silver.


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## Dobe

new to silver. What do I need to know befor buying?


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## A Watchman

Dobe said:


> new to silver. What do I need to know befor buying?


Tell us about why you are here in the Intro thread, would be a good start to get some input


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## Dobe

Looking for safe investment for shtf scenario. And I think I found what I was looking for on another thread.


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## A Watchman

Want to share what you settled on?


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## Dobe

Junk silver coins for currency, rounds for investment. Buy when possible from e-bay (junk)


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## A Watchman

Agreed, but I do not use ebay.


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## sideKahr

Dobe, if you're open to some advice: buy locally, anonymously, for cash. Think about it.


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## Dobe

Im always open to advice. If I may ask< why cash?


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## Dobe

That may sound ignorant, but tracing silver purchases? I must admit, my search in this area has just begun.


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## sideKahr

The fewer number of people who know what you have, the better. Checks and cards leave records, who knows who sees them. Buying from your local coin shop creates a relationship that is invaluable. My dealer will buy my coins sight unseen, and pay me by check or cash, whatever I want.


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## Dobe

I suppose you're right. I'm a cautious person anyway.


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## Dobe

I have spent too much money on guns and ammo (fun stuff), and not enough on other things of importance, communications gear comes to mind.


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## 8301

Picked up a bit of bullion myself yesterday. Price was just too low to resist.


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## Dobe

I'm still doing my research.


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## alterego

This thread requires a bump this morning look at the price of commodities everything is on his way down due to the US currency dollar valuation going up


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## A Watchman

Yep, Silver is below $14.00 its been a while since we have seen that.


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## alterego

And a quick check of pm this morning.


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## A Watchman

alterego said:


> And a quick check of pm this morning.


Its black Friday, silver is on sale with a $0.20 cent sudden drop overnight compared to spot in recent days.


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## aaronliford07

Gimble said:


> Is there a reliable private mint to get bars from?


I mainly buy Silver Eagles from JM Bullion. I know that they sell bars as well.


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## 8301

This link has been posted on this site before but for those who missed it.
https://comparesilverprices.com/


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## DadofTheFamily

Personally, I think we're at the bottom or near it. A couple more San Bernidino's or an oop's in Syria and the system will start to wobble. The Yuan entry into the SDR basket is significant. China's strategic mining interests in Africa and Afghanistan are important to note too. I've read that in the future the if these is an amalgamation of corporate and sovereign interests (global fascism) the SDR may become a basket of not only fiat currencies but a combination of commodities as well. Makes sense since only a few corporations control the major commodities market. China will be in a good position to control a significant portion of strategic metal mining as well as having the lion's share of gold reserves plus their Yuan in the basket.


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## DadofTheFamily

Dobe said:


> I have spent too much money on guns and ammo (fun stuff), and not enough on other things of importance, communications gear comes to mind.


Dobe - You need to check out the Ham Radio thread from a few days ago. Comms are just as important as provisions.


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## A Watchman

DadofTheFamily said:


> Personally, I think we're at the bottom or near it. A couple more San Bernidino's or an oop's in Syria and the system will start to wobble. The Yuan entry into the SDR basket is significant. China's strategic mining interests in Africa and Afghanistan are important to note too. I've read that in the future the if these is an amalgamation of corporate and sovereign interests (global fascism) the SDR may become a basket of not only fiat currencies but a combination of commodities as well. Makes sense since only a few corporations control the major commodities market. China will be in a good position to control a significant portion of strategic metal mining as well as having the lion's share of gold reserves plus their Yuan in the basket.


Silver is bumping up and down right now.......... but I agree, if you are waiting for anything under $14 for a prolonged time I don't see it.


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## 8301

I suspect bullion will be up and down as the 16th approaches and the Fed considers raising the prime rate. I'm not sure how OPEC breaking up will affect the price.

Prices spiked late last week for both silver and gold but demand actually was a bit lower during the spike. see chart
https://www.texmetals.com/price-charts/

Possibly the mines are tired of loosing money and raised their prices a bit. If that is not the case then I suspect the price may drop a bit more.

2 points to keep in mind, Silver is often a byproduct of mining other metals such as lead and zinc so production costs can be hard to quantify.

Trying to time the market for the best price is largely a matter of common sense and luck. Now is certainly a better than average time to buy if you're in the mood for some silver.


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## A Watchman

FoolAmI said:


> I suspect bullion will be up and down as the 16th approaches and the Fed considers raising the prime rate. I'm not sure how OPEC breaking up will affect the price.
> 
> Prices spiked late last week for both silver and gold but demand actually was a bit lower during the spike. see chart
> https://www.texmetals.com/price-charts/
> 
> Possibly the mines are tired of loosing money and raised their prices a bit. If that is not the case then I suspect the price may drop a bit more.
> 
> 2 points to keep in mind, Silver is often a byproduct of mining other metals such as lead and zinc so production costs can be hard to quantify.
> 
> Trying to time the market for the best price is largely a matter of common sense and luck. Now is certainly a better than average time to buy if you're in the mood for some silver.


Agreed, if you are waiting for the under $10 an ounce days again...... I wouldn't wait.


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## Dobe

You are right. Been workin on my Ham ticket.


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## 8301

analysis report on silver future. 

They expect a short term increase in price but suspect that the price will then drop some, possibly lower than it is now.


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## LONE WOLF

Wow silver is at $13.82 right now!


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## Arklatex

LONE WOLF said:


> Wow silver is at $13.82 right now!


!!!

Ark slowly hangs his head in shame thinking of all those $18 - $25 silver eagles he's bought...


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## A Watchman

Arklatex said:


> !!!
> 
> Ark slowly hangs his head in shame thinking of all those $18 - $25 silver eagles he's bought...


A Watchman wonders how many dumbass friends Ark has that also bought silver at 18-21...... then he remembers he is at the front of the list.... he then tries to delete the post and slip back into obscurity, but the cancel button won't work. Mishy is monitoring his activity again.... no doubt, she is up to no good or trying to make another quick sale off the Watchman.


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## A Watchman

But A Watchman remembers also ............its gonna be worth a $100 an ounce........so what's a few bucks...... right? hello? right?


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## Operator6

I just made a significant purchase at 13.75. If it goes below 10.00 I'll buy in again.


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## A Watchman

Operator6 said:


> I just made a significant purchase at 13.75. If it goes below 10.00 I'll buy in again.


Below 10 you say.......it will be a while before you make another significant purchase then.


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## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> Below 10 you say.......it will be a while before you make another significant purchase then.


We shall see. Some thought it would never go below 20, the same ones who thought it would be 100 by now ? I don't know. I do feel like there is room to make money below 15 if you can afford to buy enough.


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## 8301

Yep,,, I've got some I paid $18.40/oz for and some I paid $14.18 for. 

I made good money selling silver about 6 years ago but this time around I suspect it will be a while before I make any money. Still, I like the slightly more secure feeling I get knowing that I've got some silver in the bank.


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## Operator6

Up almost 50 cents per oz in the last couple days. 14.24 as of now.


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## Operator6

Sitting at 14.44 on one of the warmest Christmas days ever. 

Anyone give or receive any silver for Christmas ?


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## DadofTheFamily

Silver dropping today, close to $14.00. I always buy when it dips below 14.


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## DadofTheFamily

*Here's a 1 year chart of silver prices against WTI crude*


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## Urbanprepper666

Buy low sell high is the name of the game. where the price is going and what you should buy is pure speculation. junk silver, bars and rounds, numistic doesn't matter unless you are collecting for a specific reason. Me I collect it all junk silver I have acquired for next to nothing as I have many friends that work registers across the usa and give me all of the junk silver they come across for pennies. silver bars and rounds are for my SHTF situation which most will say it wont be accepted because theres no telling if its real or not but most of us know. government minted coins from all over the world are very good looking coins and I like the way they look so I collect those purely for novelty. the common factor I buy it all when price is down. I have two sons ages 6 and 3 if silver never spikes in my life time it just might in theirs. so I really have no worries on where the prices are as long as they remain down for me to purchase more. I started purchasing with little knowledge at $18 an oz. now I only buy when its below 14.50 but that's just my comfort zone others may be higher or lower.

shop around compare prices. I have purchased some nice pieces of bullion off Craigslist for under spot many times over.


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## sideKahr

"The price of gold [and silver] is largely determined by what people who do not have trust in the fiat money system want to use for an escape out of any currency."

-Fed minutes, 1993


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## A Watchman

ALERT BUY BUY Silver is at 13.81 and you only have until February!

Seriously now...I have historically bought at 14.50, but here of late been moving at 14 and under.


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## Operator6

Operator6 said:


> I just made a significant purchase at 13.75. If it goes below 10.00 I'll buy in again.


For those who think I do not diversify my holdings need to read the post above.

I think I did ok, 13.75 wasn't a bad buy.


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## Operator6

Silver spot is 14.75 as I type. 

That's 1.00 over my last purchase.


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## 8301

Operator6 said:


> Silver spot is 14.75 as I type.
> 
> That's 1.00 over my last purchase.


Wish I had bought at $13.75


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## Operator6

Boom !!

Silver is $15.46


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## MisterMills357

The potential low price is about $5.00 an ounce, because silver is a fairly common metal. 
If you think that I am nuts, look at the price of gasoline, it is headed for $1.50 a gallon. It is almost there in Huntington WV, and how many people in America saw that coming? Oil is much more common than people think it is, and so is silver. It is much more common than gold and priced accordingly.

There have been some boondoggles in the silver market, when billionaires tried to manipulate the price. And lost their shirts when the bubble burst, so caveat emptor friends, be careful.
Here is blurb from an article about the Hunt brothers, when they drove the price of silver through the roof, only to have it crash. I am old enough to remember this, it caused instability in the metal market.
"The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market."
Educate Yourself - The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble


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## Operator6

MisterMills357 said:


> The potential low price is about $5.00 an ounce, because silver is a fairly common metal.
> If you think that I am nuts, look at the price of gasoline, it is headed for $1.50 a gallon. It is almost there in Huntington WV, and how many people in America saw that coming? Oil is much more common than people think it is, and so is silver. It is much more common than gold and priced accordingly.
> 
> There have been some boondoggles in the silver market, when billionaires tried to manipulate the price. And lost their shirts when the bubble burst, so caveat emptor friends, be careful.
> Here is blurb from an article about the Hunt brothers, when they drove the price of silver through the roof, only to have it crash. I am old enough to remember this, it caused instability in the metal market.
> "The collapse of the silver market meant countless losses for speculators. The Hunt brothers declared bankruptcy. By 1987 their liabilities had grown to nearly $2.5 billion against assets of $1.5 billion. In August of 1988 the Hunts were convicted of conspiring to manipulate the market."
> Educate Yourself - The Hunt Brothers and the Silver Bubble


What's the potential high ? You've stated the low. Where are we now ?

There's your answer as to why it's appealing.

It's a novelty for me, I like gambling and I like holding the chips.


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## Operator6

IN two months silver is up 2.06.


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## Prepper News

Operator6 said:


> IN two months silver is up 2.06.


It would trade that much in a day a few years back..up or down. The paper pushers will lose control at some point.


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## Operator6

Silvers riding at 15.25 this morning. Yes I look everyday :joyous:


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## ND_ponyexpress_

funny thing is.. last few years when gold was around 1250... silver was @ 20.. the gap has widened a bit.


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## tango

Silver went to about 14.54 today--- buying time


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## billt

Silver will continue to bounce up and down like a basketball on a concrete floor between $14.00 and $16.00 an ounce. It's the nature of the commodity. *It is a horrible investment, period.* If you buy it because you simply like the looks and feel of it, or are attracted to Silver Eagles and the like, that's fine. But don't ever purchase silver thinking you'll make a big profit on it. If you do it will be purely by mistake, not on purpose. I remember all of these guy a few years back standing in line to pay $34.00+ an ounce for it, thinking it was going to Pluto. Now they're dumping it for 40% of that. People think it will save them when, "the dollar collapses", and all this other nonsense. When people are broke and starving, who the hell is going to pay you for your silver?..... Or even want it for that matter? Let alone trade you their precious commodities like food and water for it?

If your preparing for an apocalypse store food, water, guns, and ammunition...... *NOT SILVER!* When SHTF necessities like food, water, ammo, etc. are better for barter than a bunch of shiny metal no one is going to want. Especially when all hell breaks lose. They'll kill you for your clothes and food.... Not your silver.


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## sideKahr

billt said:


> ?..don't ever purchase silver thinking you'll make a big profit on it. If you do it will be purely by mistake, not on purpose...If your preparing for an apocalypse store food, water, guns, and ammunition...... *NOT SILVER!*


If your (sic) preparing for an apocalypse store food, water, guns, and ammunition... AND silver. There, fixed it for ya.

Silver is not for barter during an emergency. That's a good way to get killed. Precious metals are for carrying part of your wealth THROUGH the emergency. Keep it safe until then. It has, and always will be, a desired and valued form of money.

Oh, and by the way, silver CAN be very profitable. My best investment to date has been silver. It's my only ten-bagger.


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## billt

sideKahr said:


> Oh, and by the way, silver CAN be very profitable.


And the Asteroid *CAN* hit tomorrow. Look at silver over the long haul. It is one of the poorest performing investments you can make. If you would have bought it 5 years ago, you would have lost your ass. If you bought it 36 years ago, (1980), you would have lost your ass even worse. The price of silver has zero bearing on the state of the economy. The only way you will ever make money with silver is if you get lucky. Luck has no place in anyone's investment strategy.


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## Operator6

If spot gets below 10 then I'm going to buy again. I made a significant buy at 13.75 and I'm holding there unless I want a coin or two for collection reasons.


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## Denton

billt said:


> And the Asteroid *CAN* hit tomorrow. Look at silver over the long haul. It is one of the poorest performing investments you can make. If you would have bought it 5 years ago, you would have lost your ass. If you bought it 36 years ago, (1980), you would have lost your ass even worse. The price of silver has zero bearing on the state of the economy. The only way you will ever make money with silver is if you get lucky. Luck has no place in anyone's investment strategy.


As a matter of fact, I made a good chunk of change during the last spike. Bought and sold Sprott ETFs.

Clarification on physical silver, as well as gold. They have been used for thousands of years. It is not currency; it is money.

Why would we go back to using precious metals? Because silver coins fit in pockets better than pigs or cows.

But, hey! Why look to thousands of years of history; just assume precious metals have no future.


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## billt

Denton said:


> *Why look to thousands of years of history; just assume precious metals have no future.*


They don't. Look at what silver has done in the last 3 years. *It's LOST money compared to most any other investment.* Spare me all this, "thousands of years" nonsense. Talk to any financial advisor that has a clue. Tell them you have $100,000.00 to invest. Ask him what he thinks you should invest in. *The LAST thing he'll tell you is silver.* The Dow, real estate, bonds, municipals, annuities, most anything will out perform it with far less risk. Remember, your money doubles every 7 years at 8% interest. You'll NEVER achieve that with silver on ANY kind of consistent basis. That is a FACT, not an opinion. All this nonsense of "thousands of years" means exactly zilch in the short term. The average human works for just 45 years, then retires for approx. 20 more.... If they're both smart and lucky. What happens, or what has happened, "for thousands of years" is immaterial. In the long run we'll all be dead.


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## sideKahr

Why must you be so contentious, billt? We're just having a discussion, and trying to learn. Chill. :cupcake:

The Dow, bonds, municipals, and annuities all have one thing in common. They are paper investments and they all have counterparties. We found out in 2008 what happens when the underlying company of an equity goes bankrupt, or your CMO insurer cannot pay, right? 

Now paid-for real estate, I'm on board with that. It's not just bits on someone's hard drive. And precious metals have a place in a balanced portfolio, also. They have no counterparty. Get it? Sure, they have no yield; because they have no risk.

Don't confuse the dollar value of silver with the VALUE of silver. The dollar may not be around forever.


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## Denton

billt said:


> They don't. Look at what silver has done in the last 3 years. *It's LOST money compared to most any other investment.* Spare me all this, "thousands of years" nonsense. Talk to any financial advisor that has a clue. Tell them you have $100,000.00 to invest. Ask him what he thinks you should invest in. *The LAST thing he'll tell you is silver.* The Dow, real estate, bonds, municipals, annuities, most anything will out perform it with far less risk. Remember, your money doubles every 7 years at 8% interest. You'll NEVER achieve that with silver on ANY kind of consistent basis. That is a FACT, not an opinion. All this nonsense of "thousands of years" means exactly zilch in the short term. The average human works for just 45 years, then retires for approx. 20 more.... If they're both smart and lucky. What happens, or what has happened, "for thousands of years" is immaterial. In the long run we'll all be dead.


Man alive, you simply don't get it.

I made money on silver by "investing" in silver ETFs. Good money. Buying physical silver is not for investing. You are mixing things up and not staying on the original topic.

Along with stores of other prepping supplies, I have silver. Physical silver, both in coins as well as rounds and bars. They are not for investing and I am not looking to make a profit from them unless the price spikes, again. If that happens, I'll sell it and buy when it is low, again. Even if that happens, that isn't the reason I have it. I have it to use as it has been used _for thousands of years_ or if this currency collapses in my lifetime in which case I'll use it to buy into the new currency.

As far as sparing you from history, feel free to ignore it.


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## tango

Silver, especially pre 64 coins are a must have for STHF, just like food, water, etc.

Hey, you do not want silver, good.
More for the smart folks.


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## billt

sideKahr said:


> The dollar may not be around forever.


It will be around far longer than you. Believe me.


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## sideKahr

billt said:


> It will be around far longer than you. Believe me.


I hope you're right. I really do.


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## billt

World Wide Tactical said:


> The price will go up *and is going up.*


Silver last April 2015 = $16.55.............. Silver today 2016 = $15.14

https://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/ag0365nyb.html


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## Denton

World Wide Tactical said:


> Everyone must buy only the purest silver possible at the current price. The price will go up and is going up. Suggestions are American Eagles 1 oz, Canadian Maple leafs or Australian Kangaroo 1 oz. Don't waste your Time chasing Down Old Currency The silver in these Coins is pure and a Good deal at todays prices. 15.09 is todays price but you cant get it for that because the demand is so high for silver. I am seeing current pricing at $18.80-$20.99 per oz. For 2016 silver
> Every day is different though.
> New Guy


Get it lower than that:

https://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver_nwtmintbullion.php


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## Denton

billt said:


> Silver last April 2015 = $16.55.............. Silver today 2016 = $15.14
> 
> https://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/ag0365nyb.html


You have a point. This is a good time to buy!


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## tango

Silver in April 2015 was $16.55
Silver in Mar 2016 was $16.00
Then it came down to under $15.00
That is why we buy on the dips


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## billt

Denton said:


> You have a point. *This is a good time to buy!*





tango said:


> Silver in April 2015 was $16.55
> Silver in Mar 2016 was $16.00
> Then it came down to under $15.00
> *That is why we buy on the dips*


Tell that to all the "Preppers" who stood in line to buy it just 5 years ago at $48.55 an ounce, because it was "going to go to $120.00". You'll be crying the same blues when it goes to $12.00. And it will. In the last 5 years silver has proven to be one of the absolute *WORST* investments in American history. No dividends. No profits. No nothing, just losses. If that's your idea of financial "security", I wish you luck!

Silver Price Chart: 5 Years | SilverSeek.com


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## sideKahr

billt said:


> Tell that to all the "Preppers" who stood in line to buy it just 5 years ago at $48.55 an ounce, because it was "going to go to $120.00". You'll be crying the same blues when it goes to $12.00. And it will. In the last 5 years silver has proven to be one of the absolute *WORST* investments in American history. No dividends. No profits. No nothing, just losses. If that's your idea of financial "security", I wish you luck!
> 
> Silver Price Chart: 5 Years | SilverSeek.com


It's not realistic to cherry pick dates and prices. That's what stock brokers do to dupe the unsophisticated investor. Sure, some people lost money in silver, on paper only if they haven't sold it. But you have a brain. If you are strictly interested in trading for profit, the object is to buy low, and sell high. Some people have done that, too. At one time silver sold for $4.50, and at one time it sold for $44.00. It is not a pure losing proposition, as you make it out to be. Silver is not an index fund.


----------



## billt

sideKahr said:


> It's not realistic to cherry pick dates and prices.


*Sorry, but a 5 YEAR AVERAGE is anything but "cherry picking".* The fact is silver over the long term has proven to be a terrible investment. Years of dormancy with wild swings in between makes it an unstable, totally unpredictable, fluctuating investment, with zero returns in either interest or dividends all the while you're holding it. Unlike stocks, bonds, annuities, along with most every other investment out there produces. Inflation increases constantly, while the value of silver doesn't. You lose even if it does nothing.

I get so sick and tired of listening to these people talk about, "fiat paper money". Along with how "worthless" it is. I started working and investing back in 1972. I retired at 62 a year and a half ago. "Fiat money" that I invested over the years in, "paper investments" paid off my house which is currently worth well into 6 figures. Still more "worthless fiat paper money" gives me a monthly income over twice what my Social Security monthly payment currently pays me. Still more "worthless paper dollars", just paid for a nice 200 sq. ft. addition to my house. And after all that, I wrote a check backed by still more "worthless paper" for $45,000.00+ for a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee to celebrate my retirement. All paid in full, with zero payments.

Now you tell me, what would I have had if all I ever did with my hard earned money was buy a bunch of shiny silver with it? The fact is I would have little to nothing over what I have today. I am no one special. Just a hard working average joe, who saved where I could, and invested cautiously and wisely. All of this nonsense about silver being, "the money of choice for thousands of years" is nothing but unrealistic, foolish nonsense.

If someone wishes to have a bit of silver on hand for one reason or another, (which I do), that is fine. But it is no "investment" that is going to finance your life in retirement, or any other way for that matter. All it is, and all it ever was, and all it's ever going to be, is nothing more than a imaginary hedge against inflation. And a piss poor one at that. That is because silver sits and does nothing for the majority of time. It pays you absolutely zero while you hold it. In the meantime you're missing out, and in the process *LOSING OUT,* to every other investment out there, (which is damn near every single one), that pay interest and dividends. Yes, they're "paper". I've just showed what that "worthless paper" has done for me, that in no way silver in ANY form could have come close to doing. I'm not going to waste earnings sitting on a bunch of metal that is going nowhere over time, to brace for some "economic apocalypse" that in all likelihood will never come in my lifetime. Simply put there are a great many ways to financially prepare for the future. Over the years silver has PROVEN to be one of the very worst. That is fact, not economic opinion. And I can all but guarantee you any financial planner or investor who knows ANYTHING would advise ANYONE not to heavily invest in it. Unless of course, they like to throw away money their "fiat paper" will be earning by working for them, so they don't have to. I don't know about you, but I've worked hard enough, long enough. I'm not going to do it anymore, just so I can look at a bunch of shiny metal, while I sit around waiting for an imaginary crash, that in all likelihood will never come to pass in my lifetime.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> *Sorry, but a 5 YEAR AVERAGE is anything but "cherry picking".* The fact is silver over the long term has proven to be a terrible investment. Years of dormancy with wild swings in between makes it an unstable, totally unpredictable, fluctuating investment, with zero returns in either interest or dividends all the while you're holding it. Unlike stocks, bonds, annuities, along with most every other investment out there produces. Inflation increases constantly, while the value of silver doesn't. You lose even if it does nothing.
> 
> I get so sick and tired of listening to these people talk about, "fiat paper money". Along with how "worthless" it is. I started working and investing back in 1972. I retired at 62 a year and a half ago. "Fiat money" that I invested over the years in, "paper investments" paid off my house which is currently worth well into 6 figures. Still more "worthless fiat paper money" gives me a monthly income over twice what my Social Security monthly payment currently pays me. Still more "worthless paper dollars", just paid for a nice 200 sq. ft. addition to my house. And after all that, I wrote a check backed by still more "worthless paper" for $45,000.00+ for a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee to celebrate my retirement. All paid in full, with zero payments.
> 
> Now you tell me, what would I have had if all I ever did with my hard earned money was buy a bunch of shiny silver with it? The fact is I would have little to nothing over what I have today. I am no one special. Just a hard working average joe, who saved where I could, and invested cautiously and wisely. All of this nonsense about silver being, "the money of choice for thousands of years" is nothing but unrealistic, foolish nonsense.
> 
> If someone wishes to have a bit of silver on hand for one reason or another, (which I do), that is fine. But it is no "investment" that is going to finance your life in retirement, or any other way for that matter. All it is, and all it ever was, and all it's ever going to be, is nothing more than a imaginary hedge against inflation. And a piss poor one at that. That is because silver sits and does nothing for the majority of time. It pays you absolutely zero while you hold it. In the meantime you're missing out, and in the process *LOSING OUT,* to every other investment out there, (which is damn near every single one), that pay interest and dividends. Yes, they're "paper". I've just showed what that "worthless paper" has done for me, that in no way silver in ANY form could have come close to doing. I'm not going to waste earnings sitting on a bunch of metal that is going nowhere over time, to brace for some "economic apocalypse" that in all likelihood will never come in my lifetime. Simply put there are a great many ways to financially prepare for the future. Over the years silver has PROVEN to be one of the very worst. That is fact, not economic opinion. And I can all but guarantee you any financial planner or investor who knows ANYTHING would advise ANYONE not to heavily invest in it. Unless of course, they like to throw away money their "fiat paper" will be earning by working for them, so they don't have to. I don't know about you, but I've worked hard enough, long enough. I'm not going to do it anymore, just so I can look at a bunch of shiny metal, while I sit around waiting for an imaginary crash, that in all likelihood will never come to pass in my lifetime.


So.. why are you on a prepper forum if you are not prepping for anything that isn't imaginary? you may be surprised that preppers are more heavily invested in lead than silver.. how much is lead worth?? a whole lot more when you need it!!!!


----------



## sideKahr

billt, you and I have similiar backgrounds. I, too, retired 3 years ago at age 60, just a working joe. I bought a nice car, cash, and have a nice home with no debt. I also invested in stocks, bonds, and insurance products, and I made a lot of money with them, and still hold them. I'm not saying that doesn't work. 

I'm just saying that you're cutting yourself off from potential profit by ignoring precious metals. That is in addition to the protection that real money affords in a currency crisis; which you don't believe can happen but many of us here, do. A five year average performance is not long term. Commodities (many people consider silver a commodity) run in 20 year cycles. I started investing in PMs 30 years ago. Granted, at age 63 I might not see the investment potential of PMs now in the same way as I did then. But younger people should.

I don't expect PM's to pay for my life of leisure in retirement; I doubt many people do. That's not realistic. I hold some PM as a diversification in my portfolio, and as a hedge against disaster. I hold bank deposits, too, and quite honestly I trust coins in my hand more than them. 

You admit you hold some silver, and that it is unwise to "invest heavily in it". I think I understand. I agree with you, my friend.

P.S. Your last post was excellent!


----------



## Slippy's-Attorney

billt said:


> Sorry, but a 5 YEAR AVERAGE is anything but "cherry picking" The fact is silver over the long term has proven to be a terrible investment. Years of dormancy with wild swings in between makes it an unstable, totally unpredictable, fluctuating investment, with zero returns in either interest or dividends all the while you're holding it. Unlike stocks, bonds, annuities, along with most every other investment out there produces. Inflation increases constantly, while the value of silver doesn't. You lose even if it does nothing.


why look at just 5 years... hell I have had silver for longer then that. I have a spare tire in my car, it does not really go up or down in price - but having it make me feel secure. I have several fire extinguisers, same thing, they make me feel secure WHEN i think about them

Silver is a security issue. Silver and gold have ALWAYS been worth something.



billt said:


> I get so sick and tired of listening to these people talk about, "fiat paper money". Along with how "worthless" it is. I started working and investing back in 1972. I retired at 62 a year and a half ago. "Fiat money" that I invested over the years in, "paper investments" paid off my house which is currently worth well into 6 figures. Still more "worthless fiat paper money" gives me a monthly income over twice what my Social Security monthly payment currently pays me. Still more "worthless paper dollars", just paid for a nice 200 sq. ft. addition to my house. And after all that, I wrote a check backed by still more "worthless paper" for $45,000.00+ for a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee to celebrate my retirement. All paid in full, with zero payments.


Past performance is no GUARANTEE of future returns.

Like you I Get sick and tired but I am sick and tired of people that are fecking clueless about the reason for things and that twist things to argue a point that NOBODY has made to make themselves seem wonderful and great...

Please show me ONE place where we have said fiat currency is worthless... most of us talk about a future event where it will be worthless... AND PAST PERFORMANCE of global currency shows a trend.. just like past performance of civilizations shows collapse and rebuilding. Your right, nothing may happen...and frankly I hope it doesn't because if it does, you will be dead



billt said:


> Now you tell me, what would I have had if all I ever did with my hard earned money was buy a bunch of shiny silver with it? The fact is I would have little to nothing over what I have today. I am no one special. Just a hard working average joe, who saved where I could, and invested cautiously and wisely. All of this nonsense about silver being, "the money of choice for thousands of years" is nothing but unrealistic, foolish nonsense.


if you were alive in the 1920's you would not be saying the things you are. If you had picked the wrong investments, you would be singing a different tune. AND frankly nobody is saying that the dollar today is WORTHLESS..although it is worth less

Who said you should *only* buy silver... If you have to pick one invest only, SLIPPY PIKES - historically they have gone up in value and are easy to trade and sell
Who said silver has been the money of choice...

enough of your feckless arguments that are based on you twisting facts and cherry picking crap



billt said:


> while I sit around waiting for an imaginary crash, that in all likelihood will never come to pass in my lifetime.


I do not know any prepper that is SITTING AROUND WAITING for a crash... the vast majority of us are people that get up, go to work, play with out kids, eat dinner with family, have friends, go to ball games...BUT prepare for the potential of bad events happening.

The big issue is you are looking at the past (and avoiding the fact we have had bad financial problems, pandemics, flood, fires, etc) and trying to make people that disagree with you look like idiots.

Turn off doomsday preppers!!! The vast majority of us are not like that.. we are not cowering in the basement stacking silver and caressing our M-16 as we drool over a case of MRE's

Frankly, you display the attitude of the people that will never be prepped and that look down on us that do. You will die, no doubt.. most likely you will die of starvation will sitting on your 10x20 porch holding a stack of worth less stocks and bonds drooling over a old copy of Forbes Financial mag

If you have ever purchased a brand new vehicle - you made the worst investment...understand

not everything is dollar and sense...


----------



## chocks141

I think some are getting off track. As for myself, and I think most others on this forum, are not buying silver to make a profit. I buy PM because I know someday you will be able to wipe your butt with $100 bills because they will have no value. If SHTF and silver goes to $4, it will still be worth more than the $20 bill you bought it with.


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> *So.. why are you on a prepper forum if you are not prepping for anything that isn't imaginary?* you may be surprised that preppers are more heavily invested in lead than silver.. how much is lead worth?? a whole lot more when you need it!!!!


"Prepping" is many things to many people. I don't believe an economic "crash" is going to happen in my lifetime. Could I be wrong? Of course, but it's doubtful. And even if it does, silver isn't going to do a damn thing for me, or anyone else if or when it happens. My "Prepping" has to do with more likely and realistic situations developing. Instead of all these complete SHTF scenario's so many on forums like this love to entertain. For example, look what has happened to the drinking water in Flint, Michigan. What would silver do for those people?

Some years back here in Phoenix we had a major gasoline pipeline break from Tucson to Phoenix. The result was most every gas station in the greater Phoenix Metro area ran out of gas in 24 hours or less. Again, what would silver do for those people, that keeping their gas tanks full would have? I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. You have to be somewhat realistic with "Prepping", just like everything else...... Including silver. You're comparison with lead I'm sure you meant as a joke. The only good lead is to anyone is in either ammunition, or else in the making of bullets. Which is useless unless you have the molds to cast them. I have both. But I have all but countless weapons to keep fed. Stockpiling lead because you think it "might be worth something" is pretty silly. There are other things to stockpile that you can barter with, that won't give you a hernia hauling around if you're forced to.


----------



## billt

Slippy's-Attorney said:


> why look at just 5 years... hell I have had silver for longer then that. I have a spare tire in my car, it does not really go up or down in price - but having it make me feel secure. I have several fire extinguisers, same thing, they make me feel secure WHEN i think about them Silver is a security issue. Silver and gold have ALWAYS been worth something. Past performance is no GUARANTEE of future returns. Like you I Get sick and tired but I am sick and tired of people that are fecking clueless about the reason for things and that twist things to argue a point that NOBODY has made to make themselves seem wonderful and great...Please show me ONE place where we have said fiat currency is worthless... most of us talk about a future event where it will be worthless... AND PAST PERFORMANCE of global currency shows a trend.. just like past performance of civilizations shows collapse and rebuilding. Your right, nothing may happen...and frankly I hope it doesn't because if it does, you will be dead if you were alive in the 1920's you would not be saying the things you are. If you had picked the wrong investments, you would be singing a different tune. AND frankly nobody is saying that the dollar today is WORTHLESS..although it is worth less Who said you should *only* buy silver... If you have to pick one invest only, SLIPPY PIKES - historically they have gone up in value and are easy to trade and sell Who said silver has been the money of choice...enough of your feckless arguments that are based on you twisting facts and cherry picking crap
> 
> I do not know any prepper that is SITTING AROUND WAITING for a crash... the vast majority of us are people that get up, go to work, play with out kids, eat dinner with family, have friends, go to ball games...BUT prepare for the potential of bad events happening. The big issue is you are looking at the past (and avoiding the fact we have had bad financial problems, pandemics, flood, fires, etc) and trying to make people that disagree with you look like idiots. Turn off doomsday preppers!!! The vast majority of us are not like that.. we are not cowering in the basement stacking silver and caressing our M-16 as we drool over a case of MRE's Frankly, you display the attitude of the people that will never be prepped and that look down on us that do. You will die, no doubt.. most likely you will die of starvation will sitting on your 10x20 porch holding a stack of worth less stocks and bonds drooling over a old copy of Forbes Financial mag If you have ever purchased a brand new vehicle - you made the worst investment...understand
> 
> *not everything is dollar and sense...*


No it isn't. But it is a FACT the more you have of it, (money), the better you can live. I don't know anyone who bragged about being poor. *NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING you've said changes the fact money invested in silver is dead money, period.* It will effectively earn NOTHING, regardless of how much or little you have invested in it. *It is worthless as an inflation hedge because it pays you nothing while you hold it.* That makes it an expensive asset to simply own. The only exception might be rare collector coins. And that has everything to do with their numismatic value, not so much the ounce or less of silver they contain. So why invest any more in it than you absolutely must? The silver I have I happened to inherit. It has more sentimental value than anything else. Otherwise I would have dumped it years ago.

I agree that investing in a vehicle is bad from a financial standpoint. But I don't like walking or taking the bus. So it becomes a necessary evil. And by paying with cash, (yes more of that nasty "paper"), I'm not making matters worse by paying interest for 5 years or more, by purchasing a depreciating asset with borrowed money. My point is I would not have been able to financially accomplish that if I invested the same money in silver. If you doubt anything I've posted, look at how many of the people on the Fortune 500 list made their fortunes in silver investing. Happy hunting.


----------



## Slippy's-Attorney

billt said:


> No it isn't. But it is a FACT the more you have of it, (money), the better you can live. I don't know anyone who bragged about being poor. *NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING you've said changes the fact money invested in silver is dead money, period.* It will effectively earn NOTHING, regardless of how much or little you have invested in it. *It is worthless as an inflation hedge because it pays you nothing while you hold it.* That makes it an expensive asset to simply own. The only exception might be rare collector coins. And that has everything to do with their numismatic value, not so much the ounce or less of silver they contain. So why invest any more in it than you absolutely must? The silver I have I happened to inherit. It has more sentimental value than anything else. Otherwise I would have dumped it years ago.
> 
> I agree that investing in a vehicle is bad from a financial standpoint. But I don't like walking or taking the bus. So it becomes a necessary evil. And by paying with cash, (yes more of that nasty "paper"), I'm not making matters worse by paying interest for 5 years or more, by purchasing a depreciating asset with borrowed money. My point is I would not have been able to financially accomplish that if I invested the same money in silver. If you doubt anything I've posted, look at how many of the people on the Fortune 500 list made their fortunes in silver investing. Happy hunting.


Frankly, I do not care if you buy silver, own silver, or stick it up your ....

What you do not get is that you are making silly arguments based on silly thinking...

Most investments do not PAY you anything until you cash them out. ups and downs do not matter until the day you cash out... there are lots of people that lost lots of money in their retirement accounts this year - of course that loss is only on paper

lets look at 2 things

Silver Purchased at $12 an oz
1 share of Stock X at $12 an oz

both go to $15 - you are =
both drop to $10 you are equal

there is no guarantee that either will go up or down =

the economy collapses and money is worthless... advantage SILVER

you keep making it sound like preppers are against the dollar.. we are not. we use the dollar all the time.. but we understand that it has the potential to loss its standing as the world reserve currency... and it is not just preppers... many main steam investment EXPERTS are concerned...

when to comes to stocks even large place like the Royal Bank of Scotland have issued warnings

again - I could care less if you have silver - but at least have sound logic and fair arguments against it...

To me your argument sound like this:

John was mean to me as a kid, john has silver, silver is bad

or

some preppers say silver will be selling for $1,000 an oz, so all preppers are crazy


----------



## Slippy's-Attorney

JP Morgan holds about 200 Million (maybe as high as 350 million) ounces silver

Warren Buffett Bought 130 Million Ounces of Silver

China Importing Silver at Record Pace


----------



## 1895gunner

I continue to buy sliver, however usually when I go to gun shows. I'm not a huge investor in it, just collect as I go!

1895gunner


----------



## Slippy's-Attorney

I am not sure who is worse

The "silver pumpers" or the "ya can't eat Silver" crowd


----------



## Denton

Slippy's-Attorney said:


> I am not sure who is worse
> 
> The "silver pumpers" or the "ya can't eat Silver" crowd


Equally annoying.

The anti-PM people are like militant atheists. They simply can't stand that we don't see it the way they do.


----------



## billt

Denton said:


> The anti-PM people are like militant atheists. They simply can't stand that we don't see it the way they do.


Absolute hogwash. I could care less what people want to own or invest in. *Just don't piss on my head, then turn around and try to tell me it's raining.* Go on ANY "Prepper / Survivalist" forum and talk with common sense fact, that every investment analyst uses every day of the week concerning PM's, and they'll fight you like you just kicked their decrepit, aging mother in her wheelchair. It's bull$h!t, nothing more. PM's have their place. But it's extremely speculative at best, outright dangerous in fact, for the average person to invest in them.

I was on the "Survivalist Forum" 5 years ago when silver was trading at over $48.00 an ounce. Everyone on that forum fought me tooth and nail, when I argued with them how horrifically over inflated silver was at that price. They ferociously argued with me how it was going to at least $120.00. Some called me "blind", and told me it was going to over $200.00. They also argued at the same time how stupid I was for investing with "fiat money" that was going to be worthless, because an impending "crash" was imminent. I finally got banned because I did nothing but go against their investment grain. They simply didn't like to listen to facts that told them information they didn't want to hear. What's changed, except for the FACT silver is now over 3 times cheaper than when they were buying it, and at the same time telling me how it was going to Pluto? The logic they tried selling me at the time, was like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels good when you stop.

Now each and every one of them is pounding their $48.00+ silver up their asses, pure and simple. The same thing is happening right here, right now. Granted it's doubtful it will drop over 3 times what it's selling for now. But it's a very real likelihood that it's going to sit dormant for years to come, *while inflation eats away at what little value it currently has.* Everyone on "Prepper Forums" just loves to talk about, "the history of silver". That alone should make you run away from it..... not stand in line like Lemmings to buy it.


----------



## Slippy's-Attorney

billt said:


> I could care less what people want to own or invest in.


You care a lot, you have spent a fair amount of time written against it



billt said:


> Go on ANY "Prepper / Survivalist" forum and talk with common sense fact, that every investment analyst uses every day of the week concerning PM's, and they'll fight you like you just kicked their decrepit, aging mother in her wheelchair. It's bull$h!t, nothing more. PM's have their place. But it's extremely speculative at best, outright dangerous in fact, for the average person to invest in them.


Which is it.. "PM's have their place" or "extremely speculative" or "outright dangerous" ????? pick one and stick to it....
you hate it so much you are frothing at the mouth.. did your wife run off with a prepper that was into silver



billt said:


> I was on the "Survivalist Forum" 5 years ago when silver was trading at over $48.00 an ounce. Everyone on that forum fought me tooth and nail, when I argued with them how horrifically over inflated silver was at that price. *They* ferociously argued with me how it was going to at least $120.00. Some called me "blind", and told me it was going to over $200.00. *They* also argued at the same time how stupid I was for investing with "fiat money" that was going to be worthless, because an impending "crash" was imminent. I finally got banned because I did nothing but go against their investment grain. *They* simply didn't like to listen to facts that told *them* information *they* didn't want to hear. What's changed, except for the FACT silver is now over 3 times cheaper than when *they* were buying it, and at the same time telling me how it was going to Pluto? The logic *they* tried selling me at the time, was like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels good when you stop.


who the hell is this "THEY"



billt said:


> Now each and every one of them is pounding their $48.00+ silver up their asses, pure and simple. The same thing is happening right here, right now. Granted it's doubtful it will drop over 3 times what it's selling for now. But it's a very real likelihood that it's going to sit dormant for years to come, *while inflation eats away at what little value it currently has.* Everyone on "Prepper Forums" just loves to talk about, "the history of silver". That alone should make you run away from it..... not stand in line like Lemmings to buy it.v


and again, those that bought it at $48 unless they sold it are not losing... we do not know what is going to happen in 3,5,8 years.... there are several events which could make preppers with silver - very well off



billt said:


> Everyone on "Prepper Forums" just loves to talk about, "the history of silver". That alone should make you run away from it..... not stand in line like Lemmings to buy it


not everyone LOVES to talk about it - but they ones that do really CHAP YOUR ASS don't *THEY*

I hope you get banned again because i find your hatred of preppers to be sad sad sad.. it is one thing to disagree with another prepper over certain things.. but you seem to lump us all into some SILVER CULT and the only cure is to listen to you---the voice of reason and sanity

heck i am going to start at 4 silver thread today....


----------



## Denton

billt said:


> Absolute hogwash. I could care less what people want to own or invest in. *Just don't piss on my head, then turn around and try to tell me it's raining.* Go on ANY "Prepper / Survivalist" forum and talk with common sense fact, that every investment analyst uses every day of the week concerning PM's, and they'll fight you like you just kicked their decrepit, aging mother in her wheelchair. It's bull$h!t, nothing more. PM's have their place. But it's extremely speculative at best, outright dangerous in fact, for the average person to invest in them.
> 
> I was on the "Survivalist Forum" 5 years ago when silver was trading at over $48.00 an ounce. Everyone on that forum fought me tooth and nail, when I argued with them how horrifically over inflated silver was at that price. They ferociously argued with me how it was going to at least $120.00. Some called me "blind", and told me it was going to over $200.00. They also argued at the same time how stupid I was for investing with "fiat money" that was going to be worthless, because an impending "crash" was imminent. I finally got banned because I did nothing but go against their investment grain. They simply didn't like to listen to facts that told them information they didn't want to hear. What's changed, except for the FACT silver is now over 3 times cheaper than when they were buying it, and at the same time telling me how it was going to Pluto? The logic they tried selling me at the time, was like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels good when you stop.
> 
> Now each and every one of them is pounding their $48.00+ silver up their asses, pure and simple. The same thing is happening right here, right now. Granted it's doubtful it will drop over 3 times what it's selling for now. But it's a very real likelihood that it's going to sit dormant for years to come, *while inflation eats away at what little value it currently has.* Everyone on "Prepper Forums" just loves to talk about, "the history of silver". That alone should make you run away from it..... not stand in line like Lemmings to buy it.


Yeah, I remember when silver spiked like big dog. That was when I sold my ETFs and made a good chunk of change.

Success is hogwash to a know-it-all, I am quite sure. That's OK; your "knowledge" doesn't impact my accounts.

Then, you continue try and yell that we are investing improperly when this isn't an investment site but a prepper site. If you think PMs are worthless in a SHTF situation, don't buy any. Good luck to you if you think FRNs will be good, and enjoy carrying a pig or a goat in your pocket when the rest of us are using ounces of silver due to the history-proven convenience of it. Yeah, I know; you see know reason to learn from history.

Now, respond with your usual so we can continue the circle.


----------



## billt

Denton said:


> Success is hogwash to a know-it-all, I am quite sure.


Buying silver at $48.00+ an ounce when it's currently selling for $15 and change may be called a lot of things. But "success" is hardly one of them.


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## billt

Slippy's-Attorney said:


> ......who the hell is this *"THEY"*............but they ones that do really CHAP YOUR ASS don't *THEY*


Keep talking in circles. You're smart boy, you'll figure it out.... Eventually.



Slippy's-Attorney said:


> *I hope you get banned again* because i find your hatred of preppers to be sad sad sad.


Quite the venomous little bastard, aren't you? I don't like silver as an investment. You do. Because of that I'm the guy, "filled with hate". Yet you're the one who "hopes I get banned". Take a Tylenol and relax before you $h!t yourself.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> Buying silver at $48.00+ an ounce when it's currently selling for $15 and change may be called a lot of things. But "success" is hardly one of them.


slippy's point was.. until you monetize it, you have lost nothing...... regardless of what it is currently at. but it will always be worth something.... my point as to earlier about how preppers invest in lead.. was a joke aimed at bullets.. which you claim to have plenty of.. I bought bricks of 22's for 8.99 back in the day and now they sell for around 40.. by your reasoning I should sell them.. by my reasoning.. they are worth *ZERO* until I *NEED THEM* many of us look at silver the same way! we aren't in it strictly for profit, we have it in case we need it to survive an event.. You own a computer,, what is it worth when the internet or power is out? what is a seed worth before it bears fruit? bullets, seeds, silver, MRE's, Cash, fuel stabilizer, bandaids.. they are all forms of a diversified investment in my future.. they are tangible and each are priceless when I need them.. telling someone one of their preps is a waste of time.. is a waste of my time.... if I am wandering across the wasteland and I run into people... will they take my silver or a printout of my assets? maybe neither.. but I just rely on *History before there were stocks and bonds* to be my guide..... good day sir!


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## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> slippy's point was.. until you monetize it, you have lost nothing...... regardless of what it is currently at. but it will always be worth something....


Every time someone picks a dog with fleas investment, that's what they say. But if it goes up they ranting and raving about, "how much they made". *When you buy something that is worth over 3 times LESS than what you paid for it, you're on the losing end, period.* No matter how much sugar you try to pour on a turd, all you'll wind up with is sweet $h!t. Nothing more.



ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> *I bought bricks of 22's for 8.99 back in the day* and now they sell for around 40.. by your reasoning I should sell them.


No, you're wrong. I would not sell them because I did much the same...... And I paid a dime less a brick for 50 more. To the tune of over 30,000 rounds. I would never sell them because I bought them cheap with the intention of *shooting them.* Ammunition is a consumable with a long shelf life. Why should I wait and almost certainly pay more? No, I didn't know they were going to go to $45.00+ a brick. But I was reasonably certain they would go higher. Let's be realistic, how much cheaper could they possibly get? Now, try to compare that to these guys who loaded up on silver at $48.00+ an ounce. The risk of it going down, was a hell of a lot greater than it continuing to go up. And that is exactly what happened. Just like it did in 1980 when the Hunt Brothers lured in all these people into a volatile silver market before it crashed. They didn't learn then, and they didn't learn 5 years ago when the same exact thing happened. And it will most surely happen again.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

*When you buy something that is worth over 3 times LESS than what you paid for it, you're on the losing end, period*
I would never sell them because* I bought them cheap with the intention of shooting them*

and after you use them they are worth ZERO... so you made a worse investment than the guy who bought an oz of silver for $48 and now it is worth 15..... what you don't seem to grasp is.. *we buy the silver to USE IT *later if we need to... same as you with your 22 brick..


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## ND_ponyexpress_

not everything is about making a profit.. as you so clearly point out in not selling your 22 brick for a substantial profit..... you bash us here, (most of us probably didn't buy silver @ $45 and sell it @ $15 as in your analogy)
many here may have bought it around 8 (when you loaded up on bricks of 22) and sold it when it was $40.. leaving us a nice profit (which you to say is impossible to happen) and if we are wrong and it drops to $5 we are out $3.. but if it goes to $100? (which neither of us knows but you claim to be certain of) we may take another (impossible to you) profit. and if you are wrong and it becomes money against a collapsed dollar? if you waste your time worshiping a god that doesn't exist, you are out your time... if you don't worship a god you don't believe exists that does exist? what do you stand to lose? call the worshipers crazy if you want.... but don't pretend it impossible for them to be right when you have no way of knowing (based on 60 years of economic data), at that point, you may as well preach about man-made global warming (with only 100 years of temperature data backing you up vs. history of manking)....


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## MisterMills357

The price can dip to $5 an ounce with no problem, I have the price up on Yahoo Finance, and it was not that long ago that it was at $5. 
I ain't trying to pretend that I know much, but at Monex.com, it is about $15 right now. Note: silver is a place where you can get your feelings hurt, be careful.
NOTE: some billionaire brothers in Texas went broke, trying to play the silver market. You should have seen the price! That was in the 1980's.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

MisterMills357 said:


> The price can dip to $5 an ounce with no problem, I have the price up on Yahoo Finance, and it was not that long ago that it was at $5.
> I ain't trying to pretend that I know much, but at Monex.com, it is about $15 right now. Note: silver is a place where you can get your feelings hurt, be careful.


and it can jump to $45 with problems... we are prepping for the problems....


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## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> .....and after you use them they are worth ZERO... so you made a worse investment than the guy who bought an oz of silver for $48 and now it is worth 15.


No because I didn't buy them as an investment, anymore than I "invest" in food, gas, or toilet paper. I purchase all of it to consume. If I had purchased them otherwise, I would have sold them.



ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> .... what you don't seem to grasp is.. *we buy the silver to USE IT *later if we need to... same as you with your 22 brick..


You can't consume silver. It's an investment. You buy it with the hope it will be worth more than you paid for it. Yes, you can "use it" to barter with, or sell it. But it's still an investment. You bought it because you want it to be worth as much as possible before you "use it", as you like to put it. I'll trade you $15.00 for $48.00. Then I'll "use" the $48.00 that I got for $33.00 less than I gave you for it. *That isn't "using silver". It's being used BY silver!* That's what you don't seem to grasp, because you simply want to ignore the loss that won't go away, regardless of how you try to look at it. It's worth less when you use it, "later if you need to".

Since you brought up the .22 ammo analogy, let's look at this another way. I'm "using" .22 ammo today I paid $8.88 for. The guy next to me who bought it on the way to the range paid $40.00+ for that same ammo. He's paying 4-1/2 times as much to "use" the same amount of ammo I am.

Now, let's look at your $48.00 silver you bought to "use". You paid over 3 times as much as the guy who bought it today to "use". No matter how you want to look at it, you lose.... Be it $40.00 a brick ammo, or $48.00+ silver.


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## Dobe

That analogy is correct. 
That aside, I'd like to get into some silver,since it is bottoming out. Since most seem to agree that the American Eagle is a good silver entity to own, how do I purchase?

You can probably tell I've never bought PMs.


“We used to carry knives,” he said. “Now we have to carry keys.” China Fences In Its Nomads, and an Ancient Life Withers; Andrew Jacobs; New York Times; July 12, 2015.


----------



## billt

Dobe said:


> That analogy is correct.
> That aside, I'd like to get into some silver,since it is bottoming out. Since most seem to agree that the American Eagle is a good silver entity to own, how do I purchase?


In spite of the fact these guys think I "hate" silver, (I probably own more of it than they do), I agree that it is bottoming out. It could go to $14.00, but it's unlikely. So without a doubt, if your going to buy, now's the time. If I were doing it, I would look into Maple Leafs over American Eagles. 3 reasons. 1.) They are usually priced cheaper for the exact same amount of silver, (1 ounce). Especially if you buy a mint sealed "Monster Box" of 500 coins. And 2.) they are .9999, (4 nine fine). American Eagles are slightly less pure .999, (3 nine fine). 3.) The Maple Leafs are of Canadian government $5.00 denomination. They can never be worth less, regardless of the price of silver. American Eagles are only backed for a buck. American Eagles are prettier, and because of that a bit more desirable and easier to sell. It's up to you.

As for where to purchase, check with your local bank for starters. Many times they being representatives of their company, (be it Chase, or whoever), can get a better price, and can get you quicker delivery. Some of these bullion brokers can take weeks for you to get your silver. Quicker means less worry, as you wonder if later will turn into never.


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## Dobe

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> In spite of the fact these guys think I "hate" silver, (I probably own more of it than they do), I agree that it is bottoming out. It could go to $14.00, but it's unlikely. So without a doubt, if your going to buy, now's the time. If I were doing it, I would look into Maple Leafs over American Eagles. 3 reasons. 1.) They are usually priced cheaper for the exact same amount of silver, (1 ounce). Especially if you buy a mint sealed "Monster Box" of 500 coins. And 2.) they are .9999, (4 nine fine). American Eagles are slightly less pure .999, (3 nine fine). 3.) The Maple Leafs are of Canadian government $5.00 denomination. They can never be worth less, regardless of the price of silver. American Eagles are only backed for a buck. American Eagles are prettier, and because of that a bit more desirable and easier to sell. It's up to you.
> 
> As for where to purchase, check with your local bank for starters. Many times they being representatives of their company, (be it Chase, or whoever), can get a better price, and can get you quicker delivery. Some of these bullion brokers can take weeks for you to get your silver. Quicker means less worry, as you wonder if later will turn into never.


WTF just happened here??? spend 2 pages arguing with us and calling all buyers idiots...


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## ND_ponyexpress_

I use JMBullion... to piss my money away on something that is worthless and always will be.........


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## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> No because I didn't buy them as an investment, anymore than I "invest" in food, gas, or toilet paper. I purchase all of it to consume. If I had purchased them otherwise, I would have sold them.
> 
> You can't consume silver. It's an investment. You buy it with the hope it will be worth more than you paid for it. Yes, you can "use it" to barter with, or sell it. But it's still an investment. You bought it because you want it to be worth as much as possible before you "use it", as you like to put it. I'll trade you $15.00 for $48.00. Then I'll "use" the $48.00 that I got for $33.00 less than I gave you for it. *That isn't "using silver". It's being used BY silver!* That's what you don't seem to grasp, because you simply want to ignore the loss that won't go away, regardless of how you try to look at it. It's worth less when you use it, "later if you need to".
> 
> Since you brought up the .22 ammo analogy, let's look at this another way. I'm "using" .22 ammo today I paid $8.88 for. The guy next to me who bought it on the way to the range paid $40.00+ for that same ammo. He's paying 4-1/2 times as much to "use" the same amount of ammo I am.
> 
> Now, let's look at your $48.00 silver you bought to "use". You paid over 3 times as much as the guy who bought it today to "use". No matter how you want to look at it, you lose.... Be it $40.00 a brick ammo, or $48.00+ silver.


as we have said repeatedly... we don't buy it hoping it will be worth more than we paid for it... we buy it in the hope it will be worth something to trade when the SHTF.. you use the 22 ammo and what do you have left after you use it? we use silver and maybe end up with some 22 ammo when we use it to barter... we aren't INVESTING it thinking we can retire and live like kings after Stuff gets bad (that is a side benifit when we feel we have enough that some of our holdings become expendable!)..... we are hoping to be able to swap if for something we can use if we need to.. it is merely a tool.... we are saying if stuff gets bad.. you won't be able to swap your investment portfolio for anything.. no matter how large it is!. it seems as though when the SHTF and all that is left is us preppers... we will trade among each other in silver and such. and you will be beside us with your vast stash of metal wealth.... and we will forget how crazy stupid you said we all were for buying it...


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## ND_ponyexpress_

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:


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## Denton

billt said:


> Buying silver at $48.00+ an ounce when it's currently selling for $15 and change may be called a lot of things. But "success" is hardly one of them.


Did I say I did that?


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## billt

Denton said:


> Did I say I did that?


You didn't, but many have and do. They made a mistake. We all have done it. That in itself isn't, "bad". It's called being human. By beef is when these guys take a bath on silver, like so many have, (not saying you personally), *they continue to defend it as a worthwhile investment.* You can see it right here in this thread. *That is because so many preppers allow themselves to become emotionally involved in their silver.* The worst thing you can do with *ANY* investment, is develop emotional ties to it. It's not a woman for Christ's sake! It's worse than the way these 1911 guys behave when you tell them there are better, more reliable pistols for concealed carry. A bad investment needs to be called exactly that, *BAD.* In many cases silver has proven not to deliver. When it doesn't, let the excuses start to flow. When it does, all of a sudden it becomes the greatest thing since Monday Night Football, and 3 men in the booth.


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## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> *we don't buy it hoping it will be worth more than we paid for it...* we buy it in the hope it will be worth something to trade when the SHTF.


That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Would you be happier if it's worth less? Why invest in a commodity, that has shown it's volatility in relation to it's actual worth, and experience such wild fluctuations in value? There are far more stable investments that will provide you with a healthy profit margin. Which you then can liquidate at a moments notice, and put into anything you want just as quickly. Thereby avoiding all of the extreme volatility associated with holding silver over a lengthy period of time. In short, why take the risk, when there is little to no reward? We're right back to the hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels good when you stop, analogy.


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## sideKahr

billt said:


> You didn't, but many have and do. They made a mistake. We all have done it. That in itself isn't, "bad". It's called being human. By beef is when these guys take a bath on silver, like so many have, (not saying you personally), *they continue to defend it as a worthwhile investment.* You can see it right here in this thread. *That is because so many preppers allow themselves to become emotionally involved in their silver.* The worst thing you can do with *ANY* investment, is develop emotional ties to it. It's not a woman for Christ's sake! It's worse than the way these 1911 guys behave when you tell them there are better, more reliable pistols for concealed carry. A bad investment needs to be called exactly that, *BAD.* In many cases silver has proven not to deliver. When it doesn't, let the excuses start to flow. When it does, all of a sudden it becomes the greatest thing since Monday Night Football, and 3 men in the booth.


"Don't marry the investment, just take it to the motel." That works for stocks, maybe even bonds when interest rates are moving. But it doesn't work for PMs unless all you want to do is just actively trade it. I heard it said once: trade stocks or whatever else you do, work and save, but CONCLUDE your wealth with precious metal. PM is something to hold for a lifetime, maybe even pass on down to the kids. Its portable, isn't taxed every year, cannot go bankrupt, has no counterparty risk, doesn't require maintenance and upkeep. Despite its ups and downs, you know you will get a fair price for it anytime, anywhere in the world. It is a worthy diversification in any portfolio.

What else is there with these qualities?


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## billt

sideKahr said:


> Despite its ups and downs, you know you will get a fair price for it anytime, anywhere in the world. *It is a worthy diversification in any portfolio.*


Diversification from what, profit? What do you determine to be a "fair price"? Pay $48.00 and sell for $15.00? Or buy it last year for $16 and change, and sell it today for $15 and change. *It all boils down to how much dead money are you willing to put into something, that is going to give you all but nothing on a return.* Remember, and this is important because there is no getting around it. If silver sits at the same price for a year, while you could have easily made 5% on another investment, *YOU JUST LOST 5% ON YOUR SILVER.* There is no other realistic way to look at it. *In this manner silver will cost you money to own, period.* If that sound like a worthwhile investment to you, then by all means go for it. Personally, I run away when I see losses. The fact you can say, "It will always be worth something" is meaningless. Thanks, but I worked far too hard for my money. I like getting dividends and checks every month I can use to enjoy life with. Not having a bunch of metal sitting around earning and producing nothing, other than to say, "It will always be worth something". That's too thin.


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## Seneca

For a while silver took a hike northward in price so I quit watching it. Now I'm back to watching it again, due in large part to this thread.


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## sideKahr

billt said:


> What do you determine to be a "fair price"?


You know as well as I that a fair price is what two participants to the transaction, under no stress, agree on. The point is there will always BE a price. What are you bid for Lehman Brothers today?



billt said:


> In this manner silver will cost you money to own, period.


Do you carry fire insurance on your house? Does it cost you money?



billt said:


> If that sound like a worthwhile investment to you, then by all means go for it.


We have already established that PM is not strictly an investment. There is an insurance component.



billt said:


> The fact you can say, "It will always be worth something" is meaningless.


Meaningless? Again, see Lehman Brothers. And Bear Sterns, Woolworths, Circuit City, and many other companies, bonds, CDOs, and CMOs, etc. etc. Worth? Zero.

Again, PM is portable, isn't taxed every year, cannot go bankrupt, has no counterparty risk, has no interest rate risk, and doesn't require maintenance and upkeep. What else is there with the desirable qualities possessed by PM?


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## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Would you be happier if it's worth less? Why invest in a commodity, that has shown it's volatility in relation to it's actual worth, and experience such wild fluctuations in value? There are far more stable investments that will provide you with a healthy profit margin. Which you then can liquidate at a moments notice, and put into anything you want just as quickly. Thereby avoiding all of the extreme volatility associated with holding silver over a lengthy period of time. In short, why take the risk, when there is little to no reward? We're right back to the hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels good when you stop, analogy.


if the power is out and I am bugging out and need gas to get me where I need to go... and the guy running the pump will trade me a tank of gas for an ounce of gold... I would do that trade in a heartbeat if my family's life depended on it.... by your math, I just traded a $1200 piece of metal for a $20 tank of gas... by my math.. I did what I had to do to save my family's life when I needed to.. I bought it for a specific purpose in case of emergencies.... the value or potential profit/loss is irrelevant.. if it's worth more for my kids in 50 years.. great...


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## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Would you be happier if it's worth less? Why invest in a commodity, that has shown it's volatility in relation to it's actual worth, and experience such wild fluctuations in value? There are far more stable investments that will provide you with a healthy profit margin. Which you then can liquidate at a moments notice, and put into anything you want just as quickly. Thereby avoiding all of the extreme volatility associated with holding silver over a lengthy period of time. In short, why take the risk, when there is little to no reward? We're right back to the hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels good when you stop, analogy.


power goes out permanently in an instant......... liquidate your paper all you want.... explain to the guy at the gas station that as soon as the power comes back on you will show him how much money you have... how many times do we have to tell you????? we don't buy it for a profit..... long-term profit potential may be a bonus to my grand kids who paid nothing for it!!


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## ND_ponyexpress_

Hell.. judas traded Jesus for silver.....


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## Denton

billt said:


> That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Would you be happier if it's worth less? Why invest in a commodity, that has shown it's volatility in relation to it's actual worth, and experience such wild fluctuations in value? There are far more stable investments that will provide you with a healthy profit margin. Which you then can liquidate at a moments notice, and put into anything you want just as quickly. Thereby avoiding all of the extreme volatility associated with holding silver over a lengthy period of time. In short, why take the risk, when there is little to no reward? We're right back to the hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, because it feels good when you stop, analogy.


Bless your heart, you can't seem to grasp the differences between money, currency, investing and preparing.

Buying silver for us is not an "investment." You continue to mix it all together and then focus on investing.

Now, take your time reading this; sound it out and even move your lips as you read it if you think it will help"

We are not talking about investing. We are not talking about stocks, bonds, bank accounts, or anything else that is part of a system that causes the fluctuations in prices of everything; a system that can cause all your "investments" to evaporate before you even get a chance to liquidate into FRNs that, at that time, won't even make good toilet paper or kindling.

We are talking about a metal that has a long track record of being used as money. Money; a means of storing wealth that has intrinsic value in itself and by using standardized units, needs can be bought from friends, neighbors or the markets that will pop up after the initial chaos of a serious SHTF scene passed.

See the difference? I hope so, because your tilting at imaginary windmills is getting very boring.

You don't get the value of silver and gold? Fine. We get that. At least try and grasp the notion that we are not talking about investing or trading. We all have separate accounts for that. We have them because we are also preparing for stability and old age. Prepping doesn't just mean preparing for disaster or TEOWAWKI but also for the possibility of living in a somewhat stable future, too.

You sound as if you are really into investing. It would be more productive if you started a thread about investing, trading, derivatives, etc. That sounds like or thing, and the conversation would be fun.

Now, regarding your disparaging comment about those of us who know for a fact that the 1911 is proof positive that there is a God and He used John Browning to design it...:spank:


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## billt

sideKahr said:


> You know as well as I that a fair price is what two participants to the transaction, under no stress, agree on. The point is there will always BE a price. What are you bid for Lehman Brothers today?


I have never, and I know of no one who has ever, "lost everything" on an investment. If you are so worried about all of this, "collapse and losing everything", shift your holdings to *insured investments*. There are many. Tax free, insured annuities, municipal bonds, and on and on. The people who "lost everything" on Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros. collapses were into high yield, high risk mutual funds, *they NEVER should have been involved with in the first place.* They took on additional, unnecessary risk, in order to achieve a better return. You don't invest in junk bonds or high risk mutual funds when you retire, unless you want to end up working at Home Depot. They did, and now are. You take a smaller, more secure return on an INSURED INVESTMENT.



sideKahr said:


> Do you carry fire insurance on your house? Does it cost you money?


Yes. I also buy food, toilet paper, and gasoline. I occasionally hire a plumber, or a roofer. Those are consumable products and services, much like house and car insurance. *They are not in the same class as investments.* Stop comparing canned Sardines to stocks.



sideKahr said:


> We have already established that PM is not strictly an investment. There is an insurance component.


Understood. All I'm telling you is there are far better ways to insure your investments for total losses. Which is the reason you're buying silver in the first place. *Why not select an insured investment that will give you a healthy return on your money, instead of just sitting there COSTING you money?* You're achieving the same goal with a better return. Why select to have dead money, when you can put it out there to work for you, and achieve the same goal?



sideKahr said:


> Again, PM is portable, isn't taxed every year, cannot go bankrupt, has no counterparty risk, has no interest rate risk, and doesn't require maintenance and upkeep. *What else is there with the desirable qualities possessed by PM?*


Everything I have just outlined. Why pay to have something that others are more than willing to pay you a healthy interest rate to have? And please spare me the "Walking Dead" scenario. We will never see that in your or my lifetime. Could we see war? Yes. Could we see terrorist attacks on our infrastructure? Yes. Could we see a repeat of 2008, or even 1929? Possibly. Silver is going to do nothing for you an insured investment like what I've outlined won't do better in any of those cases. And if you're worried about it getting worse, a gun will work better than silver. But now we've departed reality for fantasy. I'm not about to waste my money trying to "protect" myself from a fantasy scenario that will never take place. That is as sensible as building a space ship to escape the impending Asteroid strike.


----------



## billt

Denton said:


> Bless your heart, you can't seem to grasp the differences between money, currency, investing and preparing.
> 
> Buying silver for us is not an "investment." You continue to mix it all together and then focus on investing.
> 
> Now, take your time reading this; sound it out and even move your lips as you read it if you think it will help"
> 
> We are not talking about investing. We are not talking about stocks, bonds, bank accounts, or anything else that is part of a system that causes the fluctuations in prices of everything; a system that can cause all your "investments" to evaporate before you even get a chance to liquidate into FRNs that, at that time, won't even make good toilet paper or kindling.
> 
> We are talking about a metal that has a long track record of being used as money. Money; a means of storing wealth that has intrinsic value in itself and by using standardized units, needs can be bought from friends, neighbors or the markets that will pop up after the initial chaos of a serious SHTF scene passed.
> 
> See the difference? I hope so, because your tilting at imaginary windmills is getting very boring.
> 
> You don't get the value of silver and gold? Fine. We get that. At least try and grasp the notion that we are not talking about investing or trading. We all have separate accounts for that. We have them because we are also preparing for stability and old age. Prepping doesn't just mean preparing for disaster or TEOWAWKI but also for the possibility of living in a somewhat stable future, too.
> 
> You sound as if you are really into investing. It would be more productive if you started a thread about investing, trading, derivatives, etc. That sounds like or thing, and the conversation would be fun.
> 
> Now, regarding your disparaging comment about those of us who know for a fact that the 1911 is proof positive that there is a God and He used John Browning to design it...:spank:


So.... Tell me exactly what you think having all of this silver is going to do for you, if this giant apocalypse you so fear, ever transpires?


----------



## Denton

billt said:


> So.... Tell me exactly what you think having all of this silver is going to do for you, if this giant apocalypse you so fear, ever transpires?


Fear? I don't fear a kitchen fire but I do have a fire extinguisher. Yeah, I understand you were simply trying to be condescending.

Take a few minutes to read all the times many of us have explained it to you. Don't believe I am going to waste my time reiterating it. After all, you simply want to be argumentative and are intentionally being obtuse.


----------



## sideKahr

I think I've got it! billt is Will3.


----------



## Denton

sideKahr said:


> I think I've got it! billt is Will3.


Naw. Will wouldn't be able to make a post like billt's last one. Think about it; Will making a one sentence post. Can't see it happening.


----------



## sideKahr

Denton said:


> Naw. Will wouldn't be able to make a post like billt's last one. Think about it; Will making a one sentence post. Can't see it happening.


You're right. What was I thinking.


----------



## sideKahr

billt, how can you say, with a straight face, that an insured investment product has no counterparty risk? I think Denton is right; you are being intentionally obtuse. 

I'm out.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

He has already stated he probably owns more silver than the rest of us here... why do you own silver?


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> He has already stated he probably owns more silver than the rest of us here... why do you own silver?


As I already mentioned, it was given to me. (Inherited).


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

then why hold onto it? sell it for a profit!


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> then why hold onto it? sell it for a profit!


We've been over this before on this thread. Most of it is worth more because of it's numismatic value, not because of the silver it contains. I'm not going to sell C.C. Morgan's because of their silver content. Or Liberty Walking Halves. If all I had were rounds and bars worth spot, they would be gone.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

oh.. so you have a coin collection.... or what some like to refer to as "junk silver" . lucky for you that someone made the worst investment of their life... and then left it to you so you could hold on to it (even though it is practically worthless from an investment point of view).. if I had something that was worthless.. that I got for free (and I spent much of my time talking about making profitable investments) I would flip it for pure profit and invest in that fancy stock market for incredible returns on my Zero investment.... but that's just me..


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

I thought you were all about the profits? you paid nothing for it.. and can sell it for something worth x more than 0.. how is that not the perfect investment?


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

funny how you are smart enough to not sell your morgans for melt value.. yet think we are all stupid enough to have bought silver @45 and sold it at 15....


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> I thought you were all about the profits? you paid nothing for it.. and can sell it for something worth x more than 0.. how is that not the perfect investment?


I have several investments that are all worth "more than I paid for them". That alone is not a sole reason to sell.


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> oh.. so you have a coin collection.... or what some like to refer to as "junk silver".


Numismatic coins have value well beyond their silver content. There is less than one ounce of silver in a C.C. Morgan. Or about $15.00 worth. A mere fraction of the coins actual value. You're trying to compare raw metal to rare coinage. That is like trying to compare the value of bar steel to a mint condition Colt. One has absolutely no bearing on the value of the other.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> Remember, and this is important because there is no getting around it. If *MORGANS *sits at the same price for a year, while you could have easily made 5% on another investment, *YOU JUST LOST 5% ON YOUR MORGANS.* There is no other realistic way to look at it. *In this manner MORGANS will cost you money to own, period.* If that sound like a worthwhile investment to you, then by all means go for it. Personally, I run away when I see losses. .


THERE.. I edited that so you can see what you sound like.....


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> THERE.. I edited that so you can see what you sound like.....


Why are you so insistent on making invalid comparisons of bar silver to everything except wheelbarrows and old radiator cores? *Don't you see what you sound like?* First off, as I told you before.... Twice, *I paid NOTHING for my silver. It was given to me.* Second, and also AGAIN, rare numismatic coins cannot be compared to plain bar silver that you're so in love with. *Their rarity creates their value, not the silver in them.* No more than the paper contained in rare stamps makes them valuable. You are so insistent and desperate to justify the dead money you have in silver, you try comparing it to everything from soup, to nuts, to house insurance, and toilet paper.

You like silver. I get that part. You think it's going to save you when the world falls apart. And you can run around the countryside trading it for bullets, beans, a gallon of gas, a loaf of stale bread, or whatever. I get that part. What you're not getting, and all I am saying is *you are losing money holding it until that happens, period.* You think it's all worth it. You also seem to think the world is going to fall apart so badly, you won't have the time to convert anything else you might have into cash. And even then you want to believe your money will be worthless, as everyone will be jumping out of windows, with a trail of burning stock certificates and hundred dollar bills behind them as they plunge. And ALL of this is going to happen in 2 minutes flat.

I don't think that is going to happen in my lifetime..... If it EVER does. And I've got 240 years of history in this country on my side proving it. And spare me tales of the Great Depression. What did silver do for those people? The country was full of it, and gold as well. And IT had to be turned in *by law* for the paper currency you so love to hate. But of course, that could NEVER happen with silver, could it? I'm 63 years old. I'd do better worrying about the Asteroid hitting. What should we save and stockpile to "prepare" for that? You've got a far better, and much more realistic chance of being wiped out by a natural disaster. And I also believe if this financial calamity ever did occur, silver isn't going to do a damn thing for you. We may indeed go through some bad times. We have in the past, and we most likely will in the future. In the meantime I'll sleep nice and secure with what I've got coming in. Every wealthy person I've ever met. And every financial investor I've ever known throughout my working life, have all advised me not to walk, but to RUN AWAY from silver. There is a reason for that. As I said, and will keep on saying, it's dead money. And about the only thing worse, is holding dead money that you believe for whatever reason, won't come alive until, or even IF the, "world comes to an end". That's a hell of a loss to take waiting for something even worse to happen, just so you can break even. But whatever floats your boat.


----------



## Operator6

billt said:


> Why are you so insistent on making invalid comparisons of bar silver to everything except wheelbarrows and old radiator cores? *Don't you see what you sound like?* First off, as I told you before.... Twice, *I paid NOTHING for my silver. It was given to me.* Second, and also AGAIN, rare numismatic coins cannot be compared to plain bar silver that you're so in love with. *Their rarity creates their value, not the silver in them.* No more than the paper contained in rare stamps makes them valuable. You are so insistent and desperate to justify the dead money you have in silver, you try comparing it to everything from soup, to nuts, to house insurance, and toilet paper.
> 
> You like silver. I get that part. You think it's going to save you when the world falls apart. And you can run around the countryside trading it for bullets, beans, a gallon of gas, a loaf of stale bread, or whatever. I get that part. What you're not getting, and all I am saying is *you are losing money holding it until that happens, period.* You think it's all worth it. You also seem to think the world is going to fall apart so badly, you won't have the time to convert anything else you might have into cash. And even then you want to believe your money will be worthless, as everyone will be jumping out of windows, with a trail of burning stock certificates and hundred dollar bills behind them as they plunge. And ALL of this is going to happen in 2 minutes flat.
> 
> I don't think that is going to happen in my lifetime..... If it EVER does. And I've got 240 years of history in this country on my side proving it. And spare me tales of the Great Depression. What did silver do for those people? The country was full of it, and gold as well. And IT had to be turned in *by law* for the paper currency you so love to hate. But of course, that could NEVER happen with silver, could it? I'm 63 years old. I'd do better worrying about the Asteroid hitting. What should we save and stockpile to "prepare" for that? You've got a far better, and much more realistic chance of being wiped out by a natural disaster. And I also believe if this financial calamity ever did occur, silver isn't going to do a damn thing for you. We may indeed go through some bad times. We have in the past, and we most likely will in the future. In the meantime I'll sleep nice and secure with what I've got coming in. Every wealthy person I've ever met. And every financial investor I've ever known throughout my working life, have all advised me not to walk, but to RUN AWAY from silver. There is a reason for that. As I said, and will keep on saying, it's dead money. And about the only thing worse, is holding dead money that you believe for whatever reason, won't come alive until, or even IF the, "world comes to an end". That's a hell of a loss to take waiting for something even worse to happen, just so you can break even. But whatever floats your boat.


Just because your silver was given to you doesn't change the fact that you're losing money by holding it. According to your advice it should be sold.

Are you giving advice to only be smart with money that you work for ?


----------



## stevekozak

Could we please quit talking to the silver troll, so we can discuss silver?


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Operator6 said:


> Just because your silver was given to you doesn't change the fact that you're losing money by holding it. According to your advice it should be sold.
> 
> Are you giving advice to only be smart with money that you work for ?


glad somebody got my point.....


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

you holding onto the Morgans because they are so valuable... means you are losing money on them... that's what you told us about the silver..


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

stevekozak said:


> Could we please quit talking to the silver troll, so we can discuss silver?


I suggest going to the Slippy's attorney post about it..


----------



## billt

Operator6 said:


> Just because *your silver was given to you doesn't change the fact that you're losing money by holding it.* According to your advice it should be sold.


No. That is NOT the case. What you are failing to see, (and I've pointed it out several times), is *you cannot compare rare numismatic coins to plain silver.* Their value has far exceeded the performance of the raw metal they're made of. Look at the value of a Carson City Morgan Silver Dollar. The rarest of them can sell for over $60K.

1893 Morgan s$1 NGC PR 68 DCAM | eBay

Now, are you going to tell me you can compare that to the less than one ounce of silver they contain, that is currently trading for $15? That is ridiculous. The mere fact of how far you have to go with these silly comparisons, reflects the total weakness of your entire argument. *Rare coinage does not represent dead money.* Certainly not anywhere near to the degree raw silver does.


----------



## stevekozak

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> I suggest going to the Slippy's attorney post about it..


All right then. You all carry on with your arguing. Let me know if anyone changes their mind....:icon_smile:


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> *if the power is out* and I am bugging out and need gas to get me where I need to go... and *the guy running the pump* will trade me a tank of gas for an ounce of gold...


Back to your ridiculous scenarios and comparisons. Please tell us how this guy is going to run the gas pump, *if the power is out?* Does your silver generate electricity as well?


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

you seem to be banking all your value after a SHTF on people caring about the grade of your fancy coin... I could compare that to graded baseball cards... all of the value is in the High grade... and finding a sucker that cares about it being the nicest example.. if you are in the position to have to barter with your coin.. the guy on the other end likely won't care how much it was listed for on ebay... he will only care how much it is worth to him.. druggie breaks into your house and steals a fancy graded coin.. he is going to sell it to somebody for $200 because that's that is a great deal to him! Regardless of what it is worth to you.. it was worth $200 to him!


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> Back to your ridiculous scenarios and comparisons. Please tell us how this guy is going to run the gas pump, *if the power is out?* Does your silver generate electricity as well?


Hand-pump.. from a can..


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> Back to your ridiculous scenarios and comparisons. Please tell us how this guy is going to run the gas pump, *if the power is out?* Does your silver generate electricity as well?


please tell us how you are going to convince the guy how much your 1893 morgan is worth?


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

stevekozak said:


> All right then. You all carry on with your arguing. Let me know if anyone changes their mind....:icon_smile:


it's what I'm good at.. just ask my wife!


----------



## Operator6

billt said:


> No. That is NOT the case. What you are failing to see, (and I've pointed it out several times), is *you cannot compare rare numismatic coins to plain silver.* Their value has far exceeded the performance of the raw metal they're made of. Look at the value of a Carson City Morgan Silver Dollar. The rarest of them can sell for over $60K.
> 
> 1893 Morgan s$1 NGC PR 68 DCAM | eBay
> 
> Now, are you going to tell me you can compare that to the less than one ounce of silver they contain, that is currently trading for $15? That is ridiculous. The mere fact of how far you have to go with these silly comparisons, reflects the total weakness of your entire argument. *Rare coinage does not represent dead money.* Certainly not anywhere near to the degree raw silver does.


I'm telling you that investing in rare coins in preparation for a financial or natural disaster is stupid. Coin collections are basically useless and are not worth anymore than someone is willing to pay you so they can look at them. In other words you can't doing anything with the coins.........unlike land, houses, timber and various hard goods.

So you think it's good advice to hold rare coins as an investment ?? Do you really think any financial advisor would tell you to invest in a rare coin collection for an investment ? LMFAO !!!!

I mean sure people make money on rare coins but is more wealth made by investing in the stock markets,land, etc ???

I've only met a couple people who have made money on coins......I've met hundreds if not thousands that have made a substantial sum of money by investing in stocks,land,real estate.

So why do you continue to hold those rare coins when that money would be better invested elsewhere?


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

We collect radiators, you collect Bentley's (that have a radiator but is worth way more than a simple radiator) the flaw in your system is when everything turns to dust and people are dealing in radiators.... you need to find a Bentley collector or you simply have a Bentley priced radiator... We believe there will be more radiator traders than Bentley collectors..


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> you seem to be banking all your value after a SHTF on people caring about the grade of your fancy coin.


No, not at all. It's an investment like any other. What makes you think people will want your silver?


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> We collect radiators, you collect Bentley's (that have a radiator but is worth way more than a simple radiator) the flaw in your system is when everything turns to dust and people are dealing in radiators.... you need to find a Bentley collector or you simply have a Bentley priced radiator... We believe there will be more radiator traders than Bentley collectors..


I'm not even going to attempt to decipher this.


----------



## Denton

billt said:


> No, not at all. It's an investment like any other. What makes you think people will want your silver?


Because not all people are stupid.

We have already explained it. Why are you repetitive in your questioning?


----------



## A Watchman

Watching ......with a slight grin.


----------



## Denton

billt said:


> I'm not even going to attempt to decipher this.


What he is trying to tell you is expensive coins are worth no more than our coins and bullion when SHTF.

You mentioned a coin similar to yours that was valued at 60K. Similar. 59.8K or more can depend on a lot, so it means nothing that you have Morgans or anything else.

There is absolutely no reason to think your coins are going to increase in value in your lifetime or even your offspring's lifetime. So, keeping them is costing you money. If they are worth anything over spot, sell them and invest as you see fit.
If you have enough understanding and want to prepare for SHTF, use the currency for regular old silver.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> I'm not even going to attempt to decipher this.


OK. I will dumb it down for you.... Radiator= junk silver.. Bentley= 60k graded Morgan (with a radiator=silver content). you need to find someone who believes in a Morgan's graded 60k value after the dust settles... and we will be dealing with each other in junk silver. How many serious coin collectors are there in the US currently? And how many people could give a rats azz that the morgan is worth 60k? the numbers are on our side regardless of what you "know".....


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> OK. I will dumb it down for you.....


No need. You accomplished that quite well the first time around.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> I'm not even going to attempt to decipher this.


evidently not.... You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.....


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

cough..... silver almost to 17 today.. cough...


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

cough..... silver almost to 17 today.. cough... and that morgan still hasn't sold on Feebay.. guy could have bought 60k worth of silver at 15 when it went up for sale and sold it now...lol but that's impossible


----------



## beach23bum

Silver is jumping today... anyone know why? 70 cents up so far today


----------



## Dobe

Heard that China had a lot to do with it. China is buying a lot of gold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Operator6

Like the Jeffersons........movin on up !!!!!!! 

17.45 oz........BOOM.


----------



## billt

Operator6 said:


> Like the Jeffersons........movin on up !!!!!!!
> 
> 17.45 oz........BOOM.


......................................................................................................................................



ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> as we have said repeatedly... *we don't buy it hoping it will be worth more than we paid for it...... *





ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> *not everything is about making a profit....*





Slippy's-Attorney said:


> *not everything is dollar and sense...*


OK then, why all the celebration? All through this entire thread, all I've heard repeatedly from you guys was your continual harping about how silver, "isn't an investment". Usually coupled with sayings like, "We buy it to use like bullets", and assorted other claims. If you don't care what it's worth in a fiat currency market, that according to you is most likely doomed to collapse, *why are you jumping up and down like 3rd graders at a birthday party, just because it went up a buck?* If it went down and I posted it, you would be right back with all of your, "We don't care what it's worth", silly claims. It would appear, as evidenced by your own behavior, you care every bit as much as anyone who invests in anything, *that it matters to you that it goes up and not down.* I have no problem with that as an investor. I'm much the same. I'm just not so hypocritical about claiming to be otherwise.


----------



## sideKahr

The celebration of an upward movement in the dollar value of silver comes with the hope that it signifies the end to the official PM price manipulation. We're just so tired of it. 

Free Silver! Free Gold!


----------



## rthomp77

Hey Denton, just an fyi, I tried to check out that website and it is a large sign stating that NWTM has filed for bankruptcy. Just thought you would want to know.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> ......................................................................................................................................
> 
> OK then, why all the celebration? All through this entire thread, all I've heard repeatedly from you guys was your continual harping about how silver, "isn't an investment". Usually coupled with sayings like, "We buy it to use like bullets", and assorted other claims. If you don't care what it's worth in a fiat currency market, that according to you is most likely doomed to collapse, *why are you jumping up and down like 3rd graders at a birthday party, just because it went up a buck?* If it went down and I posted it, you would be right back with all of your, "We don't care what it's worth", silly claims. It would appear, as evidenced by your own behavior, you care every bit as much as anyone who invests in anything, *that it matters to you that it goes up and not down.* I have no problem with that as an investor. I'm much the same. I'm just not so hypocritical about claiming to be otherwise.


I'm just celebrating the fact it is up from 15.55 when you started your troll nonsense and hit 17.75 .. while your numismatic morgan on feebay you touted as the best investment still hasn't sold. so by your reasoning it has lost money... my last silver purchase was around 14.50... I have never bought it at 48.. and wouldn't sell it at 15..... so in summary.. I am celebrating your failure of an argument.. ::clapping::


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> I have never bought it at 48.


That's nice. Many did.


----------



## Operator6

billt said:


> ......................................................................................................................................
> 
> OK then, why all the celebration? All through this entire thread, all I've heard repeatedly from you guys was your continual harping about how silver, "isn't an investment". Usually coupled with sayings like, "We buy it to use like bullets", and assorted other claims. If you don't care what it's worth in a fiat currency market, that according to you is most likely doomed to collapse, *why are you jumping up and down like 3rd graders at a birthday party, just because it went up a buck?* If it went down and I posted it, you would be right back with all of your, "We don't care what it's worth", silly claims. It would appear, as evidenced by your own behavior, you care every bit as much as anyone who invests in anything, *that it matters to you that it goes up and not down.* I have no problem with that as an investor. I'm much the same. I'm just not so hypocritical about claiming to be otherwise.


What are you talking about ?

I made a post that silver is moving up and you comprehend that as celebration ? A few years ago I made a substantial gain when I sold silver and gold purchased in 2001. Lucky ? So F'n what, the money spends.


----------



## Operator6

Silver sitting at $17.38 this morning.


----------



## Denton

billt said:


> ......................................................................................................................................
> 
> OK then, why all the celebration? All through this entire thread, all I've heard repeatedly from you guys was your continual harping about how silver, "isn't an investment". Usually coupled with sayings like, "We buy it to use like bullets", and assorted other claims. If you don't care what it's worth in a fiat currency market, that according to you is most likely doomed to collapse, *why are you jumping up and down like 3rd graders at a birthday party, just because it went up a buck?* If it went down and I posted it, you would be right back with all of your, "We don't care what it's worth", silly claims. It would appear, as evidenced by your own behavior, you care every bit as much as anyone who invests in anything, *that it matters to you that it goes up and not down.* I have no problem with that as an investor. I'm much the same. I'm just not so hypocritical about claiming to be otherwise.


Follow along, now. I'll type slowly.

My physical silver is a store of wealth; just as PMs have been for a long, long time.

My silver ETFs, on the other hand, enjoy the ups and downs. Short term trading is fun.

Where's the hypocrisy?

Silver is down 3%, today. When you read that, did you take it as me mourning the fact that it is down, or as me celebrating? How can you tell from the typed words? I am doing neither; I am merely watching and waiting for what I think will be the right moment to bounce over to my fidelity page.

Your style of writing has an air of condescending ridicule. Do you think that has value? I don't. It simply means nobody wants to hear what you have to say. What good is that style of communication?


----------



## Arklatex

Denton said:


> My physical silver is a store of wealth; just as PMs have been for a long, long time.


And there it is. Summed up nice and simple.


----------



## billt

Denton said:


> My physical silver is a store of wealth; just as PMs have been for a long, long time.
> 
> My silver ETFs, on the other hand, enjoy the ups and downs. Short term trading is fun.
> 
> Where's the hypocrisy?
> 
> Silver is down 3%, today. When you read that, did you take it as me mourning the fact that it is down, or as me celebrating? How can you tell from the typed words? I am doing neither; I am merely watching and waiting for what I think will be the right moment to bounce over to my fidelity page.
> 
> Your style of writing has an air of condescending ridicule. Do you think that has value? I don't. It simply means nobody wants to hear what you have to say. What good is that style of communication?


What you're failing to address is it is *costing you money to store that "wealth".* While stock and annuity investments keep paying a monthly dividend. I'll go slow for you. I have over $4K a month coming in from my investments. Month in and month out. I'm retired and that money is working for me so I don't have to. Now... You tell me what I would have If I "invested" that money in a pile of silver to prepare for a SHTF scenario? Nothing, zip, nada. Why would I do that? It would be completely stupid. Money not invested, *is money LOST.*


----------



## 8301

deleted


----------



## billt

FoolAmI said:


> I suspect that the vast majority of the people who hold silver on this site have other investments and that the silver only makes a small percentage of their investments just as their expense for their preps is only a small percentage of their income.
> 
> Personally I've done quite well with bullion trading the last 35 years but it is only a tiny part of my investments. Still, I sleep easier having a bit of bullion and it costs me nothing to securely store it.


Having it as, "a tiny part of your investments", and having "a bit of bullion", is fine. But I wonder how many "preppers" fall into that category?


----------



## Operator6

FoolAmI said:


> I suspect that the vast majority of the people who hold silver on this site have other investments and that the silver only makes a small percentage of their investments just as their expense for their preps is only a small percentage of their income.
> 
> Personally I've done quite well with bullion trading the last 35 years but it is only a tiny part of my investments. Still, I sleep easier having a bit of bullion and it costs me nothing to securely store it.


Exactly, I'm well diversified and I make money no matter what. The amount I have in silver or anything else for that matter isn't going to make or break me. Metals are a small percentage of my wealth, but I have earned money.

I had some friends that went all in buying residential homes and got stuck with them and it bankrupted a few. One had 7 million worth of new homes he couldn't sell.

I've only went all in once or twice and at my age I will never do it again.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

we have been over this.... Billt's advice doesn't apply to sitting on numismatic graded coins......only non graded coins are worthless...


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> What you're failing to address is it is *costing you money to store that "wealth".* While stock and annuity investments keep paying a monthly dividend. I'll go slow for you. I have over $4K a month coming in from my investments. Month in and month out. I'm retired and that money is working for me so I don't have to. Now... You tell me what I would have If I "invested" that money in a pile of silver to prepare for a SHTF scenario? Nothing, zip, nada. Why would I do that? It would be completely stupid. Money not invested, *is money LOST.**This obviously doesn't apply to the Morgans you hold....*


fixed that for you


----------



## SittingElf

I get a kick out of this whole thread!

I am of the opinion that gold, silver, and other precious metals will be worth a great deal when the SHTF or TEOTWAWKI happens......for about 6 weeks at the outside.

After that, you can't eat it, smoke it, drink it, or shoot it. Who's going to be trading or bartering for it when they are after the same things you are...... I won't be bartering my stores for metal. Bullets, food, clothing, shoes, and other supplies I need.....maybe, but I ain't taking no metal!


----------



## 8301

deleted


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

and.. if you prep to survive whatever long-term calamity befalls us.. and you actually do. odds are the rebuilding process will need a standard form of money... most of us assume that will fall back to what it always has been... precious metals.. aka gold/silver.


----------



## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> fixed that for you


Why are you so concerned over my Morgan's? They're not enough for me to be concerned about. Why are they you?


----------



## billt

SittingElf said:


> I get a kick out of this whole thread!
> 
> I am of the opinion that gold, silver, and other precious metals will be worth a great deal when the SHTF or TEOTWAWKI happens......for about 6 weeks at the outside.
> 
> After that, you can't eat it, smoke it, drink it, or shoot it. Who's going to be trading or bartering for it when they are after the same things you are...... I won't be bartering my stores for metal. Bullets, food, clothing, shoes, and other supplies I need.....maybe, but I ain't taking no metal!


I'm surprised more "preppers" have not caught on to this small, but important bit of common sense fact. Metal, regardless of how shiny or valuable one may think it is, will be all but useless for the very reason all of these people are saving it for. In the meantime, it's costing them money to hold it.


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## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> we have been over this.... Billt's advice doesn't apply to sitting on numismatic graded coins......*only non graded coins are worthless...*


No, not worthless. Worth Less..... A lot less.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> No, not worthless. Worth Less..... A lot less.


and they cost less.... A LOT less!! 65k for a graded coin... no different than dealing in fine art...


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## billt

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> and they cost less.... A LOT less!! 65k for a graded coin... no different than dealing in fine art...


I have no coins worth $65K.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

billt said:


> Why are you so concerned over my Morgan's? They're not enough for me to be concerned about. Why are they you?


I am simply amazed how they defy the logic of your own argument... you say that holding anything instead of making money on it means you are losing money... just amazing how your morgans are exempt from this...


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## Denton

billt said:


> What you're failing to address is it is *costing you money to store that "wealth".* While stock and annuity investments keep paying a monthly dividend. I'll go slow for you. I have over $4K a month coming in from my investments. Month in and month out. I'm retired and that money is working for me so I don't have to. Now... You tell me what I would have If I "invested" that money in a pile of silver to prepare for a SHTF scenario? Nothing, zip, nada. Why would I do that? It would be completely stupid. Money not invested, *is money LOST.*


Maybe, but when my invested money is lost because of things go south, the silver will still be there. Thus, a store of wealth. *A store of wealth, not an investment. *

Place all your eggs in one basket if you like, but I think that is *completely stupid*.


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## billt

Denton said:


> Place all your eggs in one basket if you like, but I think that is *completely stupid*.


I'll tell you what's even more stupid. Forcing yourself to have to go back to work, there by ending a prosperous retirement. Because you took investments that were generating good monthly income, and tied them up in a bunch of shiny metal that is producing $h!t.


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## Denton

billt said:


> I'll tell you what's even more stupid. Forcing yourself to have to go back to work, there by ending a prosperous retirement. Because you took investments that were generating good monthly income, and tied them up in a bunch of shiny metal that is producing $h!t.


Have a wonderful evening; I'll be going to work, now. Yes; physical silver, investments and I work. Why not? I really enjoy what I do, have "Cadillac insurance" and am working toward a retirement pension which will simply be even more cash flow. I think it would be stupid to do anything else. As a matter of fact, I am looking at yet another endeavor for fun and profit!
Life is good; and with that, good night.


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## tango

I have bought silver-- I am not going back to work
Silver does not have to produce anything--- it is to protect---


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## FLPrepper

Silver finally has seemed to stabilize above $16. Now if only the powers that be would let natural supply/demand forces dictate market price.


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## FLPrepper

It's price jumps like today's that give me hope that silver will eventually trade at around at least $50 again!


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## sideKahr

FLPrepper said:


> Silver finally has seemed to stabilize above $16. Now if only the powers that be would let natural supply/demand forces dictate market price.


Silver is always at market price. The manipulators are part of the market. All prices are manipulated, and always have been. Take advantage of it.


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## Operator6

If you're a strong enough player you can move the line.


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## stevekozak

Hell, I want to see it drop to about $13 for awhile so I can do some stocking up.


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## Operator6

stevekozak said:


> Hell, I want to see it drop to about $13 for awhile so I can do some stocking up.


That's what I did around 13.75. I said wasn't buying anything else substantial until it goes below 10.

I might buy a few coins here and there for my kids but that's about it till it dips. Happy stacking @stevekozak @Denton @Slippy


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## FLPrepper

Another Snowden will surface one day exposing the breadth of this manipulation. JPMorgan, the feds...I am sure this reaches so far that we can't even imagine. Why is it they can so readily spy on us while continuing to perpetuate this deception? Might as well just rescind the 4th amendment.


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## Operator6

Silver sitting pretty at 17.83 as of now 6/24/16.


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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> Ok, yes silver is up a bit, maybe 35% the last 4 months. But the stock in a silver mining company I bought a few months ago is up 113% I figured that as people get worried about the market PM mining company stocks would rise much faster than the bullion itself. And the stock can be sold with much less in commissions than the bullion can.
> 
> In this case the commission on bullion price is how much extra you give in relation to spot for the purchase and later the sale so around $2/oz for bars by the time you buy it and later sell it. For $1000 worth of silver bullion (57 ozs at today's price) that's about $114 in fees or much more if you're dealing in minted coins.
> 
> Stock market, buy and then resell $1000 in mining company stock costs about $16.
> 
> I agree it's worth keeping some hard bullion around the place but don't try to defend it as an investment towards your retirement.


With stock you will be paying capital gains tax on your profits.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

Operator6 said:


> With stock you will be paying capital gains tax on your profits.


ahhh.. nothing beats paying the government for doing nothing.......


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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> If you're buying bullion as a prep it's fine to buy a few ozs worth at a time for prepping. If you're buying it as an investment it takes fairly large quantities to make it worth it, probably at least 100 ozs at a time and that will trigger a tax record.
> I don't buy or sell just a few ozs, and attempt to justify it as an investment; it doesn't make sense financially; just the gas to go sell a few ozs at a time adds to the cost.


Would buying 20 oz. a week x 52 weeks a year trigger a "tax record" ?

My only point was that you didn't compute capital gains tax into your stock vs physical holding silver. You can buy and sell physical silver in small quantities without income tax if you wished not to report it, which I'm not advocating but only pointing out the obvious.

If you had a few thousand ounces of silver bought at 12.00 , it wouldn't hurt a guy to sell some if it hits 30+ every week to pay a bill or two.


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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> True, You can sell a few ozs at a time but many places that buy small amounts of silver still record the sale in your name in case you sold them stolen silver.
> 
> Buying the silver they are much less likely to record your information.
> 
> And yes, I do compute capitol gains in my silver sales. I rarely sell, only once every few years, but when I do it's in a large enough quantity to possible catch the IRS attention and the silver broker I use does record it.


When was your latest sale of silver ? What price per ounce did you buy it for and what price did you sell it for ? How many ounces was it ?


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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> I then started buying again in 2010 until it rose to $15/oz.


John, silver never dipped below about 15.25 in 2010.


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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> I bought 160 ozs last year at $23


John, more bad news...... Silver never got above about 18.25 in 2015.


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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> Afraid you need to look up your numbers boss. Silver was $14.82 back in January 2010 But you're right about the 2015. Time flies, it was 2013 and instead of 160 ozs I got 180 ozs.


Ok, I looked up the numbers and you're still incorrect.

http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/monthly_graphs.plx

The link will take you to Kitco then you can select silver from the menu to the left. Select 2010 and you will see that silver never dropped below 15.00.


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## 8301

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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> Silver Price: Latest Price & Chart for Silver - NASDAQ.com
> 
> next objection? although I probably started that buying spree in late 2009. Over the years I've learned that sometimes it's not worth trying to discuss investments with some people. They'd rather argue their feelings than use their brain. I've got a friend like that, He buys crazy stocks like marijuana companies (he loves his pot) and looses his money every time.
> This topic got me thinking about that silver stock I mentioned earlier. I got some EXK on 10/23/15 and it has risen much better than the silver I hold. Wish I had bought more but at this point I'm considering shorting the position. I suspect that silver may steady out and perhaps dip a bit for a while.


Sure, my next objection is that your link is to a chart from 2011. We are discussing 2010.


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## 8301

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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> Yep, looks like that link automatically reverts back to 2016, not 2011. Try this one.
> January Silver oz Historical Prices Charts - Historical Commodity Futures Charts' : COMEX
> 
> I double checked it this time.


John, that's a chart for 5,000 ounces. So that wouldn't apply to our discussion.


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## 8301

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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> And that's what spot (price you see online or the TV news) is based on. Not what a minted collector coin may go for.
> 
> Why are you pushing so hard on this subject? Pushing an argument when you've been shown to be wrong and your pride won't let you acknowledge the truth makes you sound stupid.
> 
> I bought my first bullion (1 oz of gold) when I was 15 (summer job) and several more before I had finished collage. Later I switched primarily to silver because the numbers showed it was more volatile and offered a better ROI. I bought my 1st money market certificate at age 16 and my 1st stock while in collage. Trust me when I say that by now I have a fair idea about how it works.
> 
> If you really want to compare "dicks" why don't you tell us what your latest purchase and sale prices of silver were and in what amounts. Or perhaps you'd like to compare equity portfolio gains (although you're probably down this year) for this year.
> 
> Post it or shut up and sit down.
> 
> Money doesn't make a man but if you want to go there... There are many people on this site who are probably much stronger financially than I am but I suspect you are pure hot air.


Here is Kitcos historic charts link. Every year is listed and in 2010 silver didn't dip below 15.00. 
http://www.kitco.com/charts/historicalsilver.html?sitetype=fullsite

What's the problem with getting the facts straight ? Its real simple. No need to get upset about it.

You should request a refund from that " collage " you attended. What college was that ? :vs_lol:


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## Operator6

John, you posted a Comex chart of silver futures. 5,000 ounces being the standard contract. Comex silver futures isn't "spot"


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## Denton

John Galt said:


> Don't have time to argue this with you. Dinner date with a beautiful woman. I'm sure Rosy Palm and her 5 little friends can keep you company. Since you're full of hot air and bluster I'm sure the girls won't mind. : )


John, I suggest you think about your manners while you have your supper.

As far as your numbers, I am not going to bother with it; I'll just say this silver bug who buys silver but also short term trades silver ETFs and pays close attention to the price suggests you might want to check your notes.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

surprised Billt isn't still here saying silver is a loser... funny thing is.. when he was ranting about graded Morgan dollars being the bee's knees for 65k. but silver was around 15.75.. and if you had bought 65k worth of bullion then... pretty sure you would still be stuck with a 65k graded Morgan dollar.


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## Operator6

John Galt said:


> I am confident in my numbers but thanks, it was a very nice supper. But out of respect to you Denton I have removed the suggestions I offered to the other member as to how he can spend his evening.
> 
> But I still claim that Operator is full of hot air.


And I still claim and have posted proof that Silver spot never dropped below 15.00 an ounce in 2010.

You posted up a link to the wrong year......then you posted up a link to the Comex 5,000 ounce silver futures market......

Sorry John, the Comex 5,000 ounce silver futures are not " Spot " prices.

So you never bought on the way up to 15.00 in 2010 like you claim because it never dipped below 15.00.


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## FLPrepper

Spot silver closed at $15.02 on 2/8/10 - that is the lowest it went in 2010 and within a month it was well over $17.

Silver Prices Today - Live Silver Spot Price Chart & History


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## FLPrepper

And silver just keeps running! Prices have broken through resistance and could quickly climb into the low 20's. About time after having been depressed for the last couple years.


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## Operator6

Operator6 said:


> I just made a significant purchase at 13.75. If it goes below 10.00 I'll buy in again.


Boom ! Spot is 19.48


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## sideKahr

Pan American Silver (NASDAQ: PAAS) has jumped from 6 to 18 since January. 

It's raining soup; grab a bowl.


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## FLPrepper

Got a guy looking to sell $1000 for $14,600. Holding on until he comes down to $14,000. Would be a huge score.


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## sideKahr

FLPrepper said:


> Got a guy looking to sell $1000 for $14,600. Holding on until he comes down to $14,000. Would be a huge score.


Hope you mean 1000 ounces.


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## A Watchman

FLPrepper said:


> Got a guy looking to sell $1000 for $14,600. Holding on until he comes down to $14,000. Would be a huge score.


What type of silver? Mixed?


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## A Watchman

Sounds like he is talking 1000 silver dollars and hoping to buy at $14 with no spot.


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## Denton

John Galt said:


> look at the spot price. paying too much for a minted coin doesn't count it you're using the price for tax purposes.


Can you find a yearly chart that is not six years old?


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## Denton




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## A Watchman

Here is a great website that is fully interactive on dates or periods of silver pricing. You have a trend choice below and a time period choice above the chart. Silver Prices - 100 Year Historical Chart | MacroTrends


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## A Watchman

One more time Gents and Gals, 

Investing in silver is a hedge against fiat (worthless) currency in the event an economic collapse of the US dollar takes place. It is not to be viewed comparatively and side by side with your investments dependent on a fiat currency controlled by the Government.

Aside from tax penalties on your 401k, stocks, bonds, and social security, consider the government controls these funds and your access. The position you want to hedge against is one of not having access to your perceived funds or finding your fiat investments worthless.


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## stevekozak

M


A Watchman said:


> One more time Gents and Gals,
> 
> Investing in silver is a hedge against fiat (worthless) currency in the event an economic collapse of the US dollar takes place. It is not to be viewed comparatively and side by side with your investments dependent on a fiat currency controlled by the Government.
> 
> Aside from tax penalties on your 401k, stocks, bonds, and social security, consider the government controls these funds and your access. The position you want to hedge against is one of not having access to your perceived funds or finding your fiat investments worthless.


Yep! That is my position. It is fun to look at the rising silver prices each day right now and idily calculate what the current amount of my silver would bring, but I have no intention to sell this hedge. When silver drops back down to a set point, I will increase my hedge.


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## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> One more time Gents and Gals,
> 
> Investing in silver is a hedge against fiat (worthless) currency in the event an economic collapse of the US dollar takes place.


So the people who bought silver at 3,5,7,10,etc. and sold at 40.00 ended up with worthless US currency ?

I'm only asking because you seem to know a lot......


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## Maine-Marine

Operator6 said:


> So the people who bought silver at 3,5,7,10,etc. and sold at 40.00 ended up with worthless US currency ?
> 
> I'm only asking because you seem to know a lot......


Watchmen said "Investing in silver is a hedge against fiat (worthless) currency in the event an economic collapse of the US dollar takes place."

once a person sells, they are no longer holding it for a hedge against a future collapse and worthless fiat! so your example is invalid.

notice his reasoning takes a future VIEW, while your post talks about past events... go back reread his post and try again... also your post had an air of disrespect, you might consider apologizing to him


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## Operator6

Maine-Marine said:


> Watchmen said "Investing in silver is a hedge against fiat (worthless) currency in the event an economic collapse of the US dollar takes place."
> 
> once a person sells, they are no longer holding it for a hedge against a future collapse and worthless fiat! so your example is invalid.
> 
> notice his reasoning takes a future VIEW, while your post talks about past events... go back reread his post and try again... also your post had an air of disrespect, you might consider apologizing to him


And if you never sell it, it's worthless......

Are you sure you understand what your talking about ?


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## Operator6

The people who sold silver at 40.00 sure wasn't using silver as a hedge against the collapse of the US dollar. 

I know I didn't. 

I used it to make money.

Green U.S. Currency that I used to buy a new home with. .........a home that was being foreclosed on and I bought it at 50% of what it's worth today. 

So much for tough times...... 

A hedge against inflation maybe.... But that's a far cry from a hedge against the future collapse of the US dollar !!!!! LMAO !!'n. That's what beans and bullets are for......not silver !!!! Lmao !!! Good Lord !!!

Enjoy your day Maine-Marine, maybe buy a superman coin. ....


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## A Watchman

Operator6 said:


> So the people who bought silver at 3,5,7,10,etc. and sold at 40.00 ended up with worthless US currency ?
> 
> *Ridiculous question and off point. The only thing they lost by profiting on a silver peak, is their hedge against a FUTURE currency collapse.
> *
> I'm only asking because you seem to know a lot...... *I do know a lot. *


Try to keep up. Concentrate more on learning/sharing than starting arguments here on PF.


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## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> Try to keep up. Concentrate more on learning/sharing than starting arguments here on PF.


Trying posting your comments as opinion rather than fact if you do not like being corrected.


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## FLPrepper

Didn't mean to cause any confusion. Was looking to buy $1000 face value of 90% at $14,100 which is just a hair below melt.


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## A Watchman

Operator6 said:


> Trying posting your comments as opinion rather than fact if you do not like being corrected.


Operator ...... make no mistake you have not corrected myself nor anyone else on this thread (and other threads as well). However, we will allow you your opinions ...... I know this is going to be hard for you, but try a little humility. Let me know if I need to post the definition.


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## Operator6

Silver is a hedge against inflation, not collapse. Again, beans and bullets are for a collapse. 

Prepping 101 right there. Ask the people in Venzuala.


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## Maine-Marine

Operator6 said:


> And if you never sell it, it's worthless......
> 
> Are you sure you understand what your talking about ?


if you never sell it it is worthless???? I have an old 1923 Winchester rifles - I will never sell it - is it worthless


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## inceptor

He's right, silver is worthless. So just to show you what a nice guy I am, all you guys with worthless silver, I'll take it off your hands for you and even pay for the shipping. You can use the money you saved from shipping costs to buy beans.

I'll figure out something to do with it.


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## FLPrepper

Operator: 

If you never sell it you may consider it to be of no worth to you, but it will certainly be of worth to someone else who wants it! YOU do not dictate the value of items in the minds of others - try being a little less self centered for once!


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## Operator6

Maine-Marine said:


> if you never sell it it is worthless???? I have an old 1923 Winchester rifles - I will never sell it - is it worthless


If you don't shoot it, it's worthless to you, you're not willing to sell it. Maybe you'll trade it, if anyone wants It.


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## FLPrepper

Thank you for being more specific about it being worthless to YOU and for admitting that others may want it meaning that it is of worth to them.


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## Operator6

FLPrepper said:


> Operator:
> 
> If you never sell it you may consider it to be of no worth to you, but it will certainly be of worth to someone else who wants it! YOU do not dictate the value of items in the minds of others - try being a little less self centered for once!


It's a shame you had to explain that.......


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## inceptor

Operator6 said:


> If you don't shoot it, it's worthless to you, you're not willing to sell it. Maybe you'll trade it, if anyone wants It.


Didn't the Lone Ranger use silver bullets?

Aren't silver bullets good for vampires? Or was that werewolves?

Anyhow, to sweeten the pot for you, I'll even toss in the price of a couple cans of beans. :vs_cool:


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## sideKahr

Here's the strategy I used. I started buying silver about 20 years ago, and bought for a few years as the price went from $5.00 to $11.00 an ounce. I held until the most recent blow-off, and sold some at $44.00. I sold just enough to repay me all the cash I had put in. So I now still hold plenty of silver in case of SHTF, but at no cost to me.

Anyone can do this. The price moves in cycles. Buy low. Sell high.


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## Maine-Marine

Operator6 said:


> If you don't shoot it, it's worthless to you, you're not willing to sell it. Maybe you'll trade it, if anyone wants It.


Lets say I shoot it every weekend. but I never sell it??? is it worthless????

I have looked at other guns in the same caliber, the same age, and same make and model... they have sold for just under $2,000. But since I am not going to sell it, is mine worthless????? or is it priceless???


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## Maine-Marine

inceptor said:


> He's right, silver is worthless. So just to show you what a nice guy I am, all you guys with worthless silver, I'll take it off your hands for you and even pay for the shipping. You can use the money you saved from shipping costs to buy beans.
> 
> I'll figure out something to do with it.


I will provide a box and label to make it easier for you


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## Operator6

Maine-Marine said:


> Lets say I shoot it every weekend. but I never sell it??? is it worthless????
> 
> I have looked at other guns in the same caliber, the same age, and same make and model... they have sold for just under $2,000. But since I am not going to sell it, is mine worthless????? or is it priceless???


It's of no value other than personal satisfaction/use if you're not willing to sell or trade it. I already answered that question.

If you have a point to make, please get to it without taking up two pages of word play.


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## Operator6

Maine-Marine said:


> I will provide a box and label to make it easier for you


That's what the Royal Mint does for you when you get those cartoon coins you like .......


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## Maine-Marine

Operator6 said:


> It's of no value other than personal satisfaction/use if you're not willing to sell or trade it. I already answered that question.
> 
> If you have a point to make, please get to it without taking up two pages of word play.


 The most valuable thing is given away, although it will cost you everything once you accept it.

The big question is... what is more important - the gift or the gift giver


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## A Watchman

I started this thread last year and after 274 posts you will find the reasoning behind buying silver in these pages. You can also search many other silver related posts here on PF to find more of the same reasoning. Here are the facts and reasoning for those of you following along and watching from the sideline.

You will find that 99% of purchasers intentionally and predominately buy silver as a hedge against a future event, most notably the collapse of fiat currency here in the US or elsewhere. It is a hedge first and foremost and not an investment vehicle for the short term, but many have bought low and sold high realizing profits along the way with the potential to trade in obscurity and without regulation.

Having security brings comfort and is of great value to all of us. You never know when it might be your lifesaver, just like any other insurance you purchase as a normal course of your financial preservation actions.

It is not about value with every purchase, we all have our indulgences in life, some buy collectible silver commemorative coins, others lean towards pre 1964 90% US silver, some bars and/or bullion, and still some prefer Canadian Maples and US Eagles.

Know that your 401k, stocks and bonds, mutual funds, and even your social security is governed by the US government restricting your taxable rate and even your potential access. It is all tied to a fiat currency that is backed by absolutely no guarantees or anything of tradable vale.

Be aware of the following enabling you to be prepared to acknowledge the potential gains as well as the potential loss of your investments:

Stocks = using real money to buy fictional portions of a company that theoretically grows in theoretical value creating an assumed increase in theoretical value which is then sold for fictitious money that never actually existed and calling one's self richer.

The market is just money moving around, not money disappearing.

A stock only has a *perceived value driven* by optimism, greed, manipulation and fear making it subject to an uncontrollable fluctuation.


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## Operator6

You need to look up the definition of stock in a company. Stock is not " fictitious "........ Your definition of it is.

My stock pays dividends........yeah with Fiat currency......and I bought a new boat with that fiat currency. Is my boat fictitious ? Lmao !

You know what some peoples problem is ? They're too scared to make any money.......they don't have much and they're scared to death they'll lose it.

Most people utilize silver as a hedge against inflation, not preparing for a financial collapse. Fact, not emotional opinion.


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## Slippy

I can't believe I missed this thread. I must have been serving one of my bans.


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## A Watchman

Re read.....fictional portions.


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## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> Stocks = using real money to buy fictional portions of a company that theoretically grows in theoretical value creating an assumed increase in theoretical value which is then sold for fictitious money that never actually existed and calling one's self richer.


So you used real money to buy " fictional portions ". Then when it's sold the money become " fictitious ".

What you smokin bro ? Lol !



A Watchman said:


> Re read.....fictional portions.
> 
> View attachment 18233


Believe me, I read it.


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## A Watchman

Operator6 said:


> So you used real money to buy " fictional portions ". Then when it's sold the money become " fictitious ".
> 
> What you smokin bro ? Lol !
> 
> Believe me, I read it.


I'll go slower for ya ......

I am smoking ribs.
I am hedging sliver against an unstable currency.


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## FLPrepper

Humility is an elusive beast. Upon challenge, those unenlightened thump their chests and scream their wares. Most of us are here to exchange ideas and share knowledge, Operator is here to troll and antagonize. If not, I feel sad. I am not making my case or that of nearly all others here, I am simply pointing out the loneliness that comes with the inability to accept opposing opinions. Sad...I am truly sad.


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## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> I'll go slower for ya ......
> 
> I am smoking ribs.
> I am hedging sliver against an unstable currency.


Oh ok, well how are you hedging silver against an unstable currency ?


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## Operator6

FLPrepper said:


> Humility is an elusive beast. Upon challenge, those unenlightened thump their chests and scream their wares. Most of us are here to exchange ideas and share knowledge, Operator is here to troll and antagonize. If not, I feel sad. I am not making my case or that of nearly all others here, I am simply pointing out the loneliness that comes with the inability to accept opposing opinions. Sad...I am truly sad.


I'm a troll because I challenge B.S. ?

I think not. This guy A Watchman just posted that stock is bought with real money then when the fictitious stock is sold you get paid with fictitious money.........

That's CRAZY !

You can have your opinion but you can't have your own facts.


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## FLPrepper

Through how many unstable currencies has the value of precious metals persisted? Byzantines, Romans, Ottomans...they all valued gold and silver as WORTH, not hedges against instable currencies, which, by the way, is the REASON you purchase metals. Really, hedge against instable currencies is the best you have? You have absolutely no clue how to accept that others fell strongly that metals are part of a full prepper's list - you are just a complete blowhard wondering what life will be like alone when SHTF. Wait, you already know. Small islands do nothing but get smaller.


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## Operator6

FLPrepper said:


> Through how many unstable currencies has the value of precious metals persisted? Byzantines, Romans, Ottomans...they all valued gold and silver as WORTH, not hedges against instable currencies, which, by the way, is the REASON you purchase metals. Really, hedge against instable currencies is the best you have? You have absolutely no clue how to accept that others fell strongly that metals are part of a full prepper's list - you are just a complete blowhard wondering what life will be like alone when SHTF. Wait, you already know. Small islands do nothing but get smaller.


How many times in history has a few men had the power to destroy everyone and everything on this planet ?

How many times in history has there been trade between all the countries and people of the world ?

While history may be an indicator, you certainly can't ignore the world economy that we live in.


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## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> I am hedging sliver against an unstable currency.


 @A Watchman FLPrepper has a question for you. 


FLPrepper said:


> Really, hedge against instable currencies is the best you have?


 @FLPrepper I don't know, I'm wondering the same thing.


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## A Watchman

Operator6 said:


> Oh ok, well how are you hedging silver against an unstable currency ?


I'll leave you with these final thoughts:

If you want to know how I see silver as a prep, read all of my comments in this entire thread and you will have a basic summary of my world view on this topic of preparedness. Not a complete world view, but perhaps enough for your light bulb to come on.

You can't take a single sentence and try to rework its intent. Not with me or anyone else. This applies to silver or any prep that one may be inclined to add to his/her mindset of preparedness. I suggest you stop your daily routine of attempting to do so here.

I refer you back to the meme I sent you. It speaks loudly.

Finally, your usefulness in an intelligent discussion on this topic has vacated this board, and I am not going to stoop down to your level and play games. I suggest you check with your wife and see if she is willing to play for a while.

Out.


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## Operator6

A Watchman said:


> I'll leave you with these final thoughts:
> 
> If you want to know how I see silver as a prep, read all of my comments in this entire thread and you will have a basic summary of my world view on this topic of preparedness. Not a complete world view, but perhaps enough for your light bulb to come on.
> 
> You can't take a single sentence and try to rework its intent. Not with me or anyone else. This applies to silver or any prep that one may be inclined to add to his/her mindset of preparedness. I suggest you stop your daily routine of attempting to do so here.
> 
> I refer you back to the meme I sent you. It speaks loudly.
> 
> Finally, your usefulness in an intelligent discussion on this topic has vacated this board, and I am not going to stoop down to your level and play games. I suggest you check with your wife and see if she is willing to play for a while.
> 
> Out.


Ok, I'll leave you with some final thoughts.

You should stop posting your opinion as fact if you're going to get your feelings hurt when you're corrected.

As a final thought you suggest that " I check with my wife and see if she wants to play for a while "

That's kinda weird man.........you're one strange dude.

Then you dramatically.......like Ryan Seacrest state........."OUT". LMFAO, that's so cheesy !


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## 8301

deleted


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## leejack

I have no idea how low silver will go, but I love silver, there's just something about it.

Be it coins, rounds, bars, whatever, I just love it.

May or may not be good for barter one day, who knows.


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## Denton

leejack said:


> I have no idea how low silver will go, but I love silver, there's just something about it.
> 
> Be it coins, rounds, bars, whatever, I just love it.
> 
> May or may not be good for barter one day, who knows.


Worthless as barter. That is when you trade goods and services for goods and services. As silver is real money, you will be using it to make purchases. :vs_smirk:

Sorry to hear you have the disease, too. Whenever I pass a pawn shop, I can't help but wonder what pieces they have. Some of the pieces I have will NOT be used as money. Like my weapons, they can take them from my cold, dead hands!


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## A Watchman

You poor sapsuckers ....... glad I am not alone here. gotta run now and count my silver again.


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## leejack

When you pick up the coins and drop them in a container, it just makes a distinct sound.

I love the smell of silver in the morning! LOL!


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## mooosie

I bought some I ounce silver rounds a year ago for 14.00 an ounce ! Last time I checked it was a little over 20.00 an ounce! Not going to make me rich but not no loss either! It will go down and I'll buy a little more just to have for shtf! I also bought a thousand 9mm and 500 45 ACP that in an emergency would be better than money

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maine-Marine

My kids are convinced that the silver in the safe is PIRATE SILVER


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## mooosie

Well I bet it is

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## preponadime

We do have a few silver rounds and bars put away also some gold but lately my investments have been in copper and lead.


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## A Watchman

Perhaps its time to ask the question........ How high will silver go?

The link below is interactive to give you a historical look at either 5, 10, 20, 30, ...... to a 100 year valuation.

Silver Prices - 100 Year Historical Chart | MacroTrends


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## 8301

deleted


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## 8301

For all you bullion bugs out there the price of bullion has been dropping fast since Trump won. I don't think it's time to buy more gold or silver yet but gold has dropped about $100/oz and silver has dropped almost $3/oz in the last 2 weeks so worth watching.

For those of you who plan to flee from the city if SHTF happens having a handful of silver coins may go a long way towards buying supplies and fuel. For you more financially secure people a bag of gold and silver coins is a lightweight way to transport a lot of value if you need to bug-out.


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## A Watchman

Yea, I have been watching it drop too. Thinking about placing an order ..... but have more than just a few coins I can grab while headed out the door.


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## 8301

A Watchman said:


> Yea, I have been watching it drop too. Thinking about placing an order ..... but have more than just a few coins I can grab while headed out the door.


I'm in the same position but with the current political climate I may bump things up a tad when the price drops a bit more.

While I understand the benefits of silver and have a fair amount for everyday trading but it takes 22 lbs of silver to equal the value of 5 ozs of gold so a mixture of both metals may be a better choice if you ever had to carry wealth on your back as you bug-out.

As an investment metal I prefer silver because it has greater price swings.


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## inceptor

John Galt said:


> I'm in the same position but with the current political climate I may bump things up a tad when the price drops a bit more.


Kinda what I'm thinking.


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## 8301

Gold is down another $24 today to $1186 I'd say it's a buy if it drops to $1120
Silver is down another .30 to $16.44 I'd need to see it below $14.75 before I'd consider buying.
These buy prices may change as I watch things and see if the downward price slide slows or accelerates.

If I was new to prepping and didn't have any but wanted to get into bullion I'd start buying at a slightly higher price because it may not drop as low as the prices I listed above.

Three things are making the price of bullion drop so strongly.
1. Investors believe that the economy and stock market are going to do better under Trump so they are selling their bullion and investing in stocks.
2. Interest rates are slowly climbing making bonds a more attractive secure investment so fewer buyers for bullion.
3. Because Trump wants to renegotiate trade deals the dollar is getting stronger against other currencies making it cheaper to import foreign produced bullion.


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## stowlin

IDK and have never invested in silver (or Gold). I like them for a SHTF commodity for barter and am buying when I can for that reason. I am trying to replace what was lost recently so I'm constantly browsing ebay and craigslist for opportunity buys. But I have a different take on the price decline.

My two fears are: commodities are leading the way of the markets. As commodities go other markets will follow (stocks, then real estate, and products in general). Cyclical theories like mine suggest a recession is in order; fortunately I think Trump is the right guy to minimize the impacts of a recession and help us to turn it around quickly.

Bigger fear: We are headed into a state of deflation. Commodities like metals would decline if the all mighty dollar was to become worth more and become hard to get. Just like in the 1920's and we all know how that ends up.



John Galt said:


> Gold is down another $24 today to $1186 I'd say it's a buy if it drops to $1120
> Silver is down another .30 to $16.44 I'd need to see it below $14.75 before I'd consider buying.
> These buy prices may change as I watch things and see if the downward price slide slows or accelerates.
> 
> If I was new to prepping and didn't have any but wanted to get into bullion I'd start buying at a slightly higher price because it may not drop as low as the prices I listed above.
> 
> Three things are making the price of bullion drop so strongly.
> 1. Investors believe that the economy and stock market are going to do better under Trump so they are selling their bullion and investing in stocks.
> 2. Interest rates are slowly climbing making bonds a more attractive secure investment so fewer buyers for bullion.
> 3. Because Trump wants to renegotiate trade deals the dollar is getting stronger against other currencies making it cheaper to import foreign produced bullion.


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## 8301

I can see your commodes for the manufacturing angle but iron and steel prices are up the last 6 months. They are still nowhere near 2014 prices but up about about 50% from 2015 prices back when we really thought things were slowing down. Aluminum is up about 6% the past year. Plastic prices are more dependent on oil prices so I didn't check them.

As far as the potential for deflation if it were to be caused because a store can buy it's overseas made product cheaper (due to stronger US dollar) I see that as a good thing and the stronger dollar reduces the US trade deficit in the short term although it can also hurt US manufacturing in the long term.

If deflation was caused because there weren't enough shoppers buying because they couldn't afford to buy (1920s and 30s) then yes, I would be very concerned but that is not the case with a stronger US dollar. Other countries may see deflation from lower manufacture worker productivity as measured by $ made per hr of labor from a stronger dollar but not here.


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## A Watchman

Meanwhile, hookers are remaining steady.


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## azrancher

A Watchman said:


> Meanwhile, hookers are remaining steady.


What's the going price? Nothing kinky....

*Rancher*


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## paraquack

azrancher said:


> What's the going price? Nothing kinky....
> 
> *Rancher*


$16.37 at about 1:00 AZ time. Down 27 cents from opening price.


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## tango

Am watching the silver prices, if they keep going down, will make a buy.
It ain't gonna stay down--


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## A Watchman

tango said:


> Am watching the silver prices, if they keep going down, will make a buy.
> It ain't gonna stay down--


My buy point usually is around 14.50 ... what's yours?


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## 8301

about $14,75


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## A Watchman

Remembering in the weeks before Christmas last year ..... silver and gold dropped.


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## Smitty901

Are the hunt brothers buying yet?


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## stowlin

You know who else plays with silver: Soros



Smitty901 said:


> Are the hunt brothers buying yet?


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## inceptor

stowlin said:


> You know who else plays with silver: Soros


No surprise there. I think he is manipulating everything he can to get his way.

I do kind of wonder if Putin DOES have a warrant issued for his arrest. That could be very interesting if Putin pulls it off.


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## tango

I would like to see $14.50,or less, but don't think it is likely anytime soon


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## 8301

Silver hasn't dropped much the last 3 weeks but gold is down to $1128 today.


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## A Watchman

Silver watch. It is at a 6 month low this week. Currently at $15.89

https://comparesilverprices.com/silver-gold-coins-bars/


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## Inor

A Watchman said:


> Silver watch. It is at a 6 month low this week. Currently at $15.89
> 
> https://comparesilverprices.com/silver-gold-coins-bars/


The interesting part to me is American Eagles are still going for $18.39. That is still a $2.50 premium for each ounce you buy. I think the spot price may still fall some, but probably not a severe amount. I want the premium to fall below 10% before I am going to add to my stacks.


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## A Watchman

Good catch Inor, the premium is the real qualifier whether the "buy" price is right as silver approaches my $14.50 typical target.


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## 8301

Silver is holding steady the last 2 days at about 14.78/oz while gold has held steady for the last 11 days. I suspect we may be close to the bottom. Keep in mind that most bullion markets will be closing world wide for a few days for the new year. Trying to buy at the lowest price to the penny is impossible unless you are super lucky. I'd like to see silver get to 14.75 and gold to 1,120 but....

A thought. If governments don't conceder gold to be currency then why do governments keep buying gold to be locked away? Silver is the same but governments prefer gold because it is easier to ship and store. roughly 5 lbs of silver equals 1 oz gold.


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## A Watchman

I agree we are at/near the bottom as we see a repeat of this time last year. The premium is still generous ... for the sellers.


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## 8301

A Watchman said:


> I agree we are at/near the bottom as we see a repeat of this time last year. The premium is still generous ... for the sellers.


Agreed, seller premiums at pretty high right now. I visit this site and several others trying to find the best price. Silver Eagle Coin | Silver Eagle Coin Value USA | Silver Eagle Price Canada - Gold Price

Did you know that in 2013 (I think it was 2013) China bought about $48,000,000 in 400 oz gold bars, many of which were "salted" (not pure)? That's why I don't buy off craigslist ect. fun fact: Now days China requires that all gold they buy to be melted down and recast into 1 kilo bars as a way to assure the bars are pure.

When you conceder many orders are less than 10 ozs, the sellers have to handle and pay to ship each coin, and risk losing $ if the market turns a bit so I can see why sellers mark silver minted coins up 20% + over spot.
You can buy gold eagles with free shipping at roughly 5% over spot. Bars are closer to spot (as are silver bars) but harder to sell.


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## Marchosias

Not sure what the policy around here is on 'necroing' threads...Old threads that have been unused in awhile and then commenting on them, but I'll take a shot.

Funny how silver is STILL dropping and this thread was made years ago....Wheres the bottom? Imagine having bought around 2011?

Any guesses as to when it will stop? This is crazy..........


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## billt

Silver has always been, is now, and always will be, a dead monetary "investment", that is not worth messing with. If you have followed silver since the 70's, other than a few unpredictable meteoric rises and falls, it has done very little. With years wasted by having it remain in limbo, going nowhere. And even a few of those rapid moves were deliberately triggered by market manipulation. The most famous being the Hunt Brothers in and around 1980. And if you were unfortunate enough to buy into all of the silver hype, and bought it between 2011-2012, you have lost money big time.

Precious metals is a poor investment for the average working Joe. If you spend your life preparing for "SHTF" financially, by stacking up a bunch of shiny, dead metal, you will miss a lot of far more lucrative investments...... Which is just about all of them. And now with the economy going great guns, this is all going to prove to be even more true, as silver will languish for still more years producing nothing. No interest payments, no dividends, no nothing.

And before someone comes back, (as they always do), with the whole, "silver isn't meant to be an investment!" rant. It does not change the fact every dollar you invest in it is wasted, because you could have put it into something far more financially productive. And anyone who doesn't believe that fact, talk to someone who has held silver for the last 7 years. Because they've done nothing but flush hard earned money down the toilet. And if you've been holding it since 2006, congratulations, you've managed to break even.

https://silverprice.org/silver-price-charts/20-year-silver-price-history-in-us-dollars-per-ounce


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## MikeTango

Hopefully we will see $10 per 480 grains!


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## paraquack

Looks like NWTM has files for bankruptcy.
That be said, haven't you guys seen the commercials on TV? Silver is going to $100 per ounce? LOL


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## MikeTango

NWTM has been gone for a few years... I'm sure there are lots of articles about their shady business practices online. They did a lot of folks wrong...

https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2016/05/23/northwest-territorial-mint-scandal-000870


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## Denton

MikeTango said:


> NWTM has been gone for a few years... I'm sure there are lots of articles about their shady business practices online. They did a lot of folks wrong...
> 
> https://www.moneymetals.com/news/2016/05/23/northwest-territorial-mint-scandal-000870


Very good article that explains what happened and that the problem is not the metal, itself.


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## The Tourist

How low will Silver go? Hard to say, I'd guess he's about 17 hands at the shoulder.

But he has taste. I think he'd slink down to Kalamazoo, but never Detroit.

If you're talking about the metal, that's a different story. I'm buying solid silver dollars from Blue Ridge for about 22 dollars. But remember, silver is also used in industry, and industry is on the uptick. If it was going to fall as a precious metal but still used in manufacturing, I'd say 15 bucks on a bad day.


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## Denton

The Tourist said:


> How low will Silver go? Hard to say, I'd guess he's about 17 hands at the shoulder.
> 
> But he has taste. I think he'd slink down to Kalamazoo, but never Detroit.
> 
> If you're talking about the metal, that's a different story. I'm buying solid silver dollars from Blue Ridge for about 22 dollars. But remember, silver is also used in industry, and industry is on the uptick. If it was going to fall as a precious metal but still used in manufacturing, I'd say 15 bucks on a bad day.


You are paying a heavy premium. Check out the link @A Watchman provided in this thread from yesterday:
https://www.prepperforums.net/forum...e/112053-whats-your-buy-threshold-silver.html


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## The Tourist

Denton said:


> You are paying a heavy premium.


Actually, I'm cheating. You must hit a certain level to even get an order shipped. If I was low, I'd throw in a cheap knife I didn't want.

But my wife collects coins, so I buy her a silver dollar or two, happy wife, happy life, I can keep the knife...


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