# Newbie here...need opinions on a purchase



## Dragonfly4835 (Aug 23, 2013)

Heading to the gun show. Need to know which is best to purchase....AK-47 or AR-15?

L


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Dragonfly4835 said:


> Heading to the gun show. Need to know which is best to purchase....AK-47 or AR-15?
> 
> L


As someone who's handled a few dozen of each, and ownes one of each. If you want to shoot ground squirrel an AR is IDEAL! If you want a rifle that you can count on no matter what just laugh as you walk by an AR and get the AK.


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## Dragonfly4835 (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks Big Cheese....I will see what they have.

L


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## Dragonfly4835 (Aug 23, 2013)

BTW...like the bike. Just sold my HD Fatboy. But my favorite I purchased in PC Thunder Beach....Big Dog Mastiff...what a bike that was! Chick on a bike lol


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

BigCheeseStick said:


> As someone who's handled a few dozen of each, and ownes one of each. If you want to shoot ground squirrel an AR is IDEAL! If you want a rifle that you can count on no matter what just laugh as you walk by an AR and get the AK.


I have to disagree with your statement, somewhat. Both rifles are exceptionally reliable, as AR's have come a long way, and are far more versatile than the AK. The AR is much more customizable, and with the implement of the gas piston system, are pretty on par with the AK's in reliability.

All that being said, there is a reason that the AK is the most popular assault rifle in the world. No need to re-hash what has been said a thousand times.

Its personal choice, with the best option being what BigCheeseStick opted for-- own both!


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

A new AK-47 will shoot as good as a completely worn out AR-15.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

To different worlds.
AK cheap, short range ,not real accurate but good enough, good short range stopping power. The take a beating and keep on firing. Prices are going up with the hype
AR 900 and up more expensive does not mean better. Good stopping power from up close to 450 meters in most hands, out 600 in trained hands with optics to match. Reliable no madder what you have read. ammo is light weight easy to carry. To many add ons available for it.
Take your time do your research. Know what you want,need why and can afford before you lay down cash.
Good luck
Gun shows today are the most expensive place to buy weapons.


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## Dragonfly4835 (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks for your input sparky. What to you both think about the Bushmaster and M-16? I have shot the Bushmaster before. Got too close to the scope and it popped me right between the eyes.


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## Dragonfly4835 (Aug 23, 2013)

Smitty....I didn't realize that the gun shows were more expensive. What is the price range on an AK, AR, M16 and Bushmaster? What do you think is good to pay?


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## Dragonfly4835 (Aug 23, 2013)

Here is what I am most worried about and why I am asking you guys before I go. I am a female and don't want to be taken advantage of during my purchases. Any price range I need to look for?


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

For your first purchase, don't go too expensive. I like the M&P PSX, and got one with free add-ons for $1300.


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## Dragonfly4835 (Aug 23, 2013)

sparkyprep said:


> For your first purchase, don't go too expensive. I like the M&P PSX, and got one with free add-ons for $1300.


Thanks Sparky. Maybe I will just look around and get ideas. Then focus on what I want to purchase.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I had a couple of Bushmasters and they are good guns, check out Walmart prices before you go to a gun show. I agree with Smitty901 that gun show aren't the best value for new guns. 
PS: If the scope hit you in the eye while shooting an AR-15 you probably weren't holding the rifle firmly enough against your shoulder the normal distance between an Acog scope and the eye is usually under 2 inches.

Remember not to skimp on a scope as it is just as critical in getting a good scope as the rifle.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

See if you can shoot both so you'll understand more about them. The ak vs ar discussion had been going on for decades. Both good platforms and both good for different situations and reasons. My brother shoots an ar on a rifle team but after recently shooting my ak, he loves it. Same with me and his ar. 

Basically the ak is a close in a battle rife. I watched a video once that showed both platform shooting at a 50 gallon plastic drum full of water. I believe it was 100 yards. The 556 didn't penetrate all the way through. The 762 was thru and thru. 

Here is an example of a saiga 7.63 at 200 yards. Btw, that's 3 shots after zeroing. And yes, scope was used.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

As a female, an AK47 is probably not going to be the better rifle for you, fully loaded with a 30 round mag and carrying spares it's going to be heavier overall, with more recoil and more likely harder to handle for you than an AR. I've got a good buddy who has an AK (M10) that is too much for him. It's important to find what weapon is best for the individual than simply which weapon is best in peoples opinion. Having owned quite a few AR's over the years, I only use piston AR's now and you might truly consider one as Sparky is suggesting above. There going to run much cleaner, cooler, stay lubricated longer and being much easier to care for overall than a standard direct impingement AR. There are DI's cheaper, but you can get a good base piston AR for about $1100 and go up from there. A high quality rifle can be one of the most important buys should this world go to crap like it's looking. As mentioned in other threads, the AR is the most popular and common defensive/offensive rifle in the US, not the AK. And there are tons of directions you can go with one to best suit it for you. A PSX version piston M&P 15 though has the railed hand guard, which you may not like or need and can always put one on later if you do.

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3745

Smith & Wesson M&P Semi-Automatic 223 Remington/5.56 NATO 30 $1,154.00 SHIPS FREE


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm a Brit so what the hell do i know about guns, but I do know a little bit about the laws of physics, and those laws dictate that a bigger bullet hits harder.
Left to right:-5.56mm, .303", 7.62mm









Sure, a 5.56 flies faster, but it quickly loses its kinetic energy due to air drag making it useless at longer ranges.
Also, if the target is behind light cover such as a wood fence, car, saplings etc, much of the kinetic energy is lost penetrating that cover.
By comparison an AK-47 is a cannon and it's bigger round laughs at air drag and will go through light cover as if it's not there.
Hell, Charlie used AK's in Nam, but the US used 5.56's, there's a lesson there..

Also, AK's are rugged and simple to use, anybody can handle one-


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

Dragonfly:

Since you are new to assault rifles, you need to take some time to learn about them, and you need to handle and shoulder each type to see how each one feels, as each has different characteristics.

A little help for you on lingo - the M16 is the fully-automatic machine gun variant used by the military (sometimes called "select-fire") that are not sold commercially to civilians (although you can find "transferable" M-16s that a civilian can legally purchase, these cost over $15,000 if you can find one for sale). So don't say you are looking to buy an M-16. The civilian equivalent to the M-16 is the commercially available AR-15, semi-automatic only (one bullet is fired each time you pull the trigger). You will be looking at semi-auto AR-15s in that type of assault rifle.

AR-15s are generally lighter in weight and have better machined parts than an AK-47 or its variants, which are (generally) stamped steel rather than milled receivers. ARs are usually more accurate due to differences in design, machining, construction and barrel length. AKs are more robust in terms of needing less maintenance to keep running in the field - AKs handle exposure to mud, dirt, sand, muck, and water much better because the operating system is different, and it has looser tolerances so that mud, sand, etc., are less likely to cause the gun to jam or malfunction. 

Bushmaster makes AR-15s, which is probably what you shot when you got "scoped" in the eye.

All of the above is written in generalities, which is why I qualified the remarks. 

Since you are (obviously, I hate to tell you) a newbie, you are likely to get fleeced at a gun show. I would limit your gun show visit to browsing and not buying until you have a better idea of what you want and what you like.

The advice given here, by Fuzzee and Smitty and Ricky especially, among others, is good advice. A gas piston operated AR runs cleaner and cooler than a direct gas impingement AR, and thus offers the key advantage of the AK - less maintenance and cleaning is necessary in the field to keep the gun up and running. This is important if you have to shoot a lot of rounds (I am talking in the thousands, BTW) or if you have no tools or supplies to clean your weapons. 

AKs are surprisingly accurate for combat purposes (hitting a human-sized torso center mass) so AK inaccuracy is a bit of a myth in a firefight or gun fight. ARs are definitely more accurate (which is why Aghani and Iraqi fighters want an AR/M4/M16 instead of their AKs, usually) but AKs have killed a lot of people all over the world, so its accuracy is adequate to say the least. A trained shooter with an AK can kill a lot of adversaries in combat....

Since you are female, you should look at the AR platform first, and look for the more modern gas piston design - unless you like scraping baked on carbon and gunpowder residue for hours after you run a few hundred rounds through a direct gas impingement AR.

I would recommend you look at the gas piston ARs as you decide on what to buy, which mirrors the advice the other members here have given you, for the reasons above.

Good luck with your purchase and your research!


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Lucky Jim 
The bullets you show are a 5.56x45, a 30-30 Winchester and a 7.62x51 not a 7.62 x39 which the AK-47 uses which is just a little more powerful than the 5.56x45. Even Russia that developed the AK-47 knows the 7.63x39 is obselete and switched over to a 5.45x39 which is even smaller than what the AR15 uses.

What I would suggest from reading Dragonfly's post is an AR-15 with a reflex scope that doesn't need batteries and have someone sight it in at 100 yards. 

The reasoning is the 5.56 has very little recoil and a reflex sight she will not have to worry about the scope hitting her in the eye and the learning curve would be a fraction of the time and ammo it would take to learn an AK-47 with iron sights.
Even a child you can teach to use that setup in a few minutes and get good results just put the dot on where you want to hit just like the video games. Takes a lot of training to be able to use iron sights under stress and one of the reasons our soldiers have Acogs or Eotechs that sometime cost more than their rifle.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

OMG prices ranges vary dramatically. You have lots of homework to do.

As for AR or AK I'd strongly advise you set your budget, then shoot a few within your budget. I'm not able to give any advise on AK vs AR because I don't much care for the AK myself and am the AR. I own several AR's and no AK's,
but I'm really happy with my M1A and the 7.62x51 flat out destroys the 7.62x39 of the many AK's I've seen in this region.

Once you decide on what you want simply find a retailer and make note of his price in a spread sheet and look up 4 or 5 more until you have the best - then make your deal. Don't worry about someone having gotten one cheaper, its more important to have one then to be waiting for the best deal.



Dragonfly4835 said:


> Here is what I am most worried about and why I am asking you guys before I go. I am a female and don't want to be taken advantage of during my purchases. Any price range I need to look for?


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Personally, I would skip the AK-47 and go with the AK-74. The 5.45 x 39 performance wise, is much more comparable to the AR than the 7.62 x 39. The 5.45 is lighter (carry more) and the ammo is inexpensive (about half the price of 5.56/.223) when purchased in bulk. It's an AK platform so reliability isn't an issue and it doesn't need to be treated like a princess.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Dragonfly4835 said:


> Thanks for your input sparky. What to you both think about the Bushmaster and M-16? I have shot the Bushmaster before. Got too close to the scope and it popped me right between the eyes.


Avoid the carbon fiber ones.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Dragonfly4835 said:


> Smitty....I didn't realize that the gun shows were more expensive. What is the price range on an AK, AR, M16 and Bushmaster? What do you think is good to pay?


 All over the place right now.
AK 47 tricky it really depends on where and when it was made 600-1100 ball park 
Same with AR.
Entry level cheap carbon fiber bushy 700-900 right now
Better Ar's like Colt 6920 1059-1200 don't pay 1200 for it
Many real good AR's either DI or gas piston low of 950 to 1300
Some higher end bagging rights models 1300-2100 really not worth it
A lot depends on what is on the AR pain fore grip on most low cost higher end may have a good free float with rail system. Weather or not that is a big deal depends on you.
Either way if you buy an AK or and AR you going to need to do tour home work and learn to use the sights correctly.
Your cash but better to take your time get educated and then make the leap.


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

I like vz58, ak and sks platforms.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> I'm a Brit so what the hell do i know about guns, but I do know a little bit about the laws of physics, and those laws dictate that a bigger bullet hits harder.
> Left to right:-5.56mm, .303", 7.62mm
> 
> 
> ...


 7.62X39 is a 30 but has nothing behind it so it losses any advantage real fast. The reason there is so many of them cheap and no pays any royalty for copying them.
Stake dinner says I can make 500-600 meter shots all day with a 5.56.
I do own a couple 303 Enfields I enjoy shooting 1940's vintage have any spare mags around for them hard to come by.
That must be a 303 hunting round the issue was a sharp point.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

I thought I'd mention that while the AR-15 is the most commonly used defensive/offensive rifle in America, there are certainly other choices besides in rifles that atleast use the same round (5.56x45mm) and often use the same magazine. Some of them might be interesting to you like,

Rifles

FNH USA - Distinct Advantage :: Carbines

Bushmaster ACR

MSAR

Robinson Armament Co - [XCR-L]

Ruger® Mini-14® Ranch Rifle Autoloading Rifle Models


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## Prep4Worst (Aug 24, 2013)

All the usual true and questionable information has been stated. I am new here too, and have some simple advice. Find a local gun shop with a range. Often they are willing to help and let you try a few different options, you may have to rent the weapon and pay for ammo. After your purchase they will help with training if you'd like. You may save a few bucks at Walmart, but you will be buying from the lowest end of the spectrum. Like most items we buy in the states, you have a wide range to choose from. There are very inexpensive AR's and AK's that will need a decent trigger and additional work to make a platform you can trust. 

Visit a few range/shops in your area, let them know you goals. If they treat you with less than total respect, try another shop. Chances are there are several within the Walmart radius. You will be happy with the help a gun shop can offer for about the same investment. 

IMHO depending on your goals I would suggest the AR-15 in a medium quality range since ammo is more common than 7.62X39 and you will be able to fit the gun to your needs.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Smitty901
The center round is a 30-30 Winchester made to be shot in a lever action.
wikimedia.org/wiki/File:30-30.jpg


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Dragonfly, you can get new AR for $700 and up to as much as you want to spend.
Don't ask which is best--- you will get too many opinions.
Try to handle and shoot them if you can.
Buy what you like.


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## IngaLisa (Jan 31, 2013)

It's still pretty hard to get ammo around here for most common semi auto rifles. :/


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## Prep4Worst (Aug 24, 2013)

IngaLisa said:


> It's still pretty hard to get ammo around here for most common semi auto rifles. :/


Check the online shops. I get ads constantly with all calibers available. Also, Gander MTN has shipments regularly. Ask when your local Gander gets deliveries and be there soon after if you are having issues. What are you looking for?


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Yeah, there's 5.56x45mm/.223 out there these days on the net. Like these guys. I used to do lots of business with them. I say used to, because they raised their prices up quite a bit playing on the scare and I don't think I'll use them anymore because of it. Other companies didn't and just sold out what they had and again when they got new in and I'd rather shop with them from now on.

.223 / 5.56 : Ammo To Go


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## Prep4Worst (Aug 24, 2013)

Fuzzee said:


> Yeah, there's 5.56x45mm/.223 out there these days on the net. Like these guys. I used to do lots of business with them. I say used to, because they raised their prices up quite a bit playing on the scare and I don't think I'll use them anymore because of it. Other companies didn't and just sold out what they had and again when they got new in and I'd rather shop with them from now on.
> 
> .223 / 5.56 : Ammo To Go


I agree, just wanted to offer options. I prefer local gun shops (LGS) to either online or Big Box stores like Gander. Some of the LGS's did the price gouging too. I used Ammo to Go and they were great but that was before all of the shortage scares.


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## AvengersAssembled (Dec 13, 2012)

I can get ammo pretty easily in shops around here, the lowest I've seen for brass cased .223 is $8 per box of 20 rounds. Steel cased runs you around $0.28 per round in bulk. I'm glad to see more ammo on the shelves around me, with prices creeping lower. But as for being a female shooter, also, my advice is to just not get intimidated. I've shot AK-47's and AR-15's, and they've handled fine for me, but that's all based on you personally. It's best to try some out before considering a purchase, especially when making that kind of financial commitment. And do lots of research, ask tons of questions. That way you can know if you're paying a fair price, getting what would really fit your needs best, or if you're being taken for a ride.


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