# for those staying/bug-in What is your trigger/signal to start 24-7 security or defens



## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Just curious at what point those defending their "castle" would deem it necessary to run 24 hour watch? would it have to be a power outage? can you even do 24-7 watch for 3-5 days?


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

I could do 2 days with relative ease, 3 days would be pushing it. The second I know SHTF would be my trigger.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

With my system I can go for hours or even days and not know the local grid was down. I think about 3 days after the government nanny state checks stopped would be when I would expect things to get really ugly in the cities.

And yes, I can do a 24/7 watch within 300 yards of the house for several days, it's maintaining vigilance for several weeks that things would get rough, too many deer and turkeys (this time of year) tripping the motion sensors.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

There is no trigger to start. It's a ongoing situation now. With all the meth heads and break in's in the neighborhood do you really sleep soundly now??


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## baldman (Apr 5, 2016)

I am lucky to be out in the sticks closest neighbor is mile and a half as the crow flies.predators eating my small critters is more of a issue currently.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Chipper said:


> There is no trigger to start. It's a ongoing situation now. With all the meth heads and break in's in the neighborhood do you really sleep soundly now??


I live on a farm... an HR drive from any town with a population over 5k... I sleep pretty well


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

I'm not talking about watching out your windows to see if someone is coming. out here I can see for a mile in each direction without a building.. for me an LP/OP look-out post/observation post 24-7 would be needed to watch for incoming and engage if necessary. if it were just staying on the porch with a rifle it would be easy, but I don't want anyone within 800yds of my house. I am just wondering if the Power would need to go out before I sacrifice my sleep. cars could be driving by all day, do I need to man a post if I can still drive around and get the lay of the land? Hard to do other activities required if I have to watch the roads all day and night.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

I live in the city, so staying on my porch is all I'm gonna do.


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

When food/gas stops being delivered or 
bread/milk goes to $25 a loaf/gallon or 
power is out every where or 
pandemic is declared or
Obama declares martial law


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I figure people will start coming around asking for help, soon after that they won't be asking.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

also wondering if everybody was able to do 24-7 security.. I would think it would require at least 3 reliable shooters, otherwise you could be caught with your pants down catching some z's. Even at 6 hr shifts, that is going to be a strain. if i is just you and your wife/husband (i don't judge) even a few kids, how do you plan on watching your own ass and sleep/eat/piss/ work a garden, for a week? a year??


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I think I'd go into heightened awareness mode if n outage occurs and there is no radio or TV signal as well! I'll go to back-up
power and if no signal from the usual sources 24/7 mode we'll go. I have good back-up with no power as to perimeter ongoings


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> I'm not talking about watching out your windows to see if someone is coming. out here I can see for a mile in each direction without a building.. for me an LP/OP look-out post/observation post 24-7 would be needed to watch for incoming and engage if necessary. if it were just staying on the porch with a rifle it would be easy, but I don't want anyone within 800yds of my house. I am just wondering if the Power would need to go out before I sacrifice my sleep. cars could be driving by all day, do I need to man a post if I can still drive around and get the lay of the land? Hard to do other activities required if I have to watch the roads all day and night.


It depends on where you live. I'm not interested in in sitting out 20+ hrs a day searching for potential threats, if you are then more power to you. My immediate group (4 adults) is capable of posting someone 20+ hrs a day but life and maintaining the property needs to happen so to an extent we'll rely on neighbors 300+ yards away to assist in watching the area (neighbors are not part of the immediate group but instead more of an common interest group and live 300+ yds away). Radio communications will exist in addition to my motion sensors with rechargeable batteries ect. Even with a massive EMP I suspect it will take 7 - 21 days before people flee the cities in mass and my group will still have communications.

I don't think a 3 day grid power outage will cause a mass exodus from the cities as I think you are suggesting. If some radios or cell towers with generator backup still broadcast people will stay close to home even if their lights are out.

People with rifles walking down the paved road 800 yards away may just be hunting for supper, not looking to challenge your property. Even people with rifles walking 100 yards away on the gravel road in front of my home probably will not be challenging my property, they may just be looking for rabbits for dinner; I'll watch them but see no need to chase them off if I don't feel threatened.

If one walks on my property in a non-threating way we will still not physically challenge them but they will be verbally challenged, the kid may just be looking to take a pee but he will be closely watched by more than one person at that point.

Why look to hurt someone who is just enjoying a beautiful day and hunting for rabbits? There is no TV or Nintendo, the kids may just be hunting.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

I agree that communication is vital.. especially in rural areas.. I'm not shooting everyone that wanders by... but if they are on the road.. and walk around the sign saying do not go beyond this point... I may give a warning.. yes 24hr watch may be overkill.. but it's a small sacrifice instead of facing 4 bandits @ 3am with Molotov's outside your house.. while you and your group are inside getting shuteye...


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

motion sensors would be nice.. but I have simply too much ground to cover.. Also I don't want people that close to my family. Especially at night!!


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The probable causes of social decline are too varied to have any one plan.
The rate of decay and cause of the social order would have a large bearing on security application.
There will be 10 people here in a SHTF situation, security will be divided among us.
There will be trip wire defenses 100 yards out to provide early alert along with the seismic probes further out.
There is top shelf night vision to engage any intruders,
people coming through the woods in the middle of the night are up to no good, and will be engaged.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

when the lights go out.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> Just curious at what point those defending their "castle" would deem it necessary to run 24 hour watch? would it have to be a power outage? can you even do 24-7 watch for 3-5 days?


My children live fairly close to me the longest distance is about 150 miles. I have talked 1-1 with all of them and here is my suggestion:

1. If you see riots in the streets, pack your stuff and come out
2. If you go to the grocery store and the shelves are picked bare
3. When lines form around the gas stations
4. When the govment declares marshal law
5. If the banks close for a "holiday"

In any of those cases my children are encouraged to come to the ranch. Worst fly scenerio we will cook some elk, play some cards, spend a couple nights and if it is a false alarm they can head home.

Best fly I have everything I care about close at hand.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

thru the decades of my prepping I have yet to go on a 24 hr watch .... just notched up the alert status on occasions .... latest was the Ferguson and Baltimore troubles - never know when some local will get a wild hair up their azz .... 

under SHTF situations it'll be debatable whether it's a 24 hr watch or just a constant rush to complete "last minute" preps .... if you haven't stocked some energy drinks and/or caffeine pills for some additional zip - it'll be needed ....


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

I keep up on news local, world, financial, every day.
We will know when it is time.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

Great topic was hoping to see a little more participation on this one. I'm not a tactical genius and thoughts from a few who have seen some sort of combat go a long way with me.

If we are in WROL nobody is allowed on my property. Not without invitation. It will be sharp sticks first, questions later. And I can comfortably reach out to 200 yards with my sharp sticks for a 4 inch group.

I would sleep during the day and stay awake at night, getting family and day light time in from about 4 pm till they sleep. I'd sleep from about 8 am to 4. Most likely the scum will try at night. With my family safe behind a foot of concrete under ground I will keep watch out of the higher story windows.

There is another bloke in my area, I know we would watch out for each other, and have 2 way comms up as well, and the guy at the end of the road by the entrance would be part of the group to, he has a nice collection of sharp sticks as well, and we both have young families to protect. Common ground for a secure area. There's one more guy I know that has a double barrelled sharp stick and the guy down the way has a son that hunts so he has an actual gun! We would be ok here. The modus operandi would be to poke em with the sharp sticks first, and ask questions later.

Of course, I know a nutter who has one of these things:








I'm sure I could get my hands on it.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> I agree that communication is vital.. especially in rural areas.. I'm not shooting everyone that wanders by,


Ok, Sorry if I came on too strong in my previous post. We had a member here a few months ago who strongly indicated that he would start shooting at people 800 yards away even if they were on the other side of a wide waterway, maybe even if they were not armed, so I'm a bit touchy on the topic. People like that give people who like to be prepared like me a bad rep and only help Hillary when it comes to gun confiscation.

If you've got an extremely large area you can still set up an inner perimeter of motion sensors. The type I use work reliably at 300 yards (no hills in the way) and last 4 months on a set of batteries.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

If you are watching out for 800yds. you need watch towers with snipers at each one ,, so start building and learn how to be a sniper or train your family how to be a dead on shot . They do make elec. fence ,, put that up around were you will feel safe ,, that's a DIY project for ya .


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

The law doesn't stipulate how close a lethal threat has to be within in order for me to defend myself. 

It doesn't need to.......a lethal threat is a lethal threat at any distance. 

Shoot at me from 2 yards or 2,000 yards and I have the right to shoot back.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> The law doesn't stipulate how close a lethal threat has to be within in order for me to defend myself.
> 
> It doesn't need to.......a lethal threat is a lethal threat at any distance.
> 
> Shoot at me from 2 yards or 2,000 yards and I have the right to shoot back.


I fully agree that if someone is actively shooting at you you have the right to defend yourself but at longer ranges I think I'd instead choose to duck and run until the situation favored me in a defensive role.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

November 8th will be the deciding Trigger, The Dems win TSHTF starting then.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

FoolAmI said:


> Ok, Sorry if I came on too strong in my previous post. We had a member here a few months ago who strongly indicated that he would start shooting at people 800 yards away even if they were on the other side of a wide waterway, maybe even if they were not armed, so I'm a bit touchy on the topic. People like that give people who like to be prepared like me a bad rep and only help Hillary when it comes to gun confiscation.
> 
> If you've got an extremely large area you can still set up an inner perimeter of motion sensors. The type I use work reliably at 300 yards (no hills in the way) and last 4 months on a set of batteries.


you start shooting at everyone that comes your way and you won't have to worry about raiders - it'll be your neighbors and what's left of the local badges that'll come after your crazy azz .... with a lack of fuel - vehicle transportation will be down and people will be cutting crosscountry and down cowpaths to their destination ....


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

agreed,


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

As soon as family arrives, with just two us here there is no way to do 24/7 security. When is bad enough to cause the family to band together will be the trigger.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Targetshooter said:


> If you are watching out for 800yds. you need watch towers with snipers at each one ,, so start building and learn how to be a sniper or train your family how to be a dead on shot . They do make elec. fence ,, put that up around were you will feel safe ,, that's a DIY project for ya .


have an overlook position that can see everything. IMHO a tower is a target.. and whoever is in it is trapped.. I prefer the low-key observation until the rubber meets the road (hide in plain sight approach) . as for visitors.. there will be written warning on approach.. after that, a warning may be in order... after that.... who knows? I'm not so worried about a visitor or 2, but an armed group of 5 or convoy from Mad Max comes stormin over the hill... I would prefer to have somebody watching and alerting everybody else before they get within 300 yds... if you are not watching 24-7, what's the point of watching at all? like having a bouncer for half the night at a strip club and only on weekends..


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> Just curious at what point those defending their "castle" would deem it necessary to run 24 hour watch? would it have to be a power outage? can you even do 24-7 watch for 3-5 days?


Sounds like a great bridge to cross when a person happens to come to it.

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Illini Warrior said:


> you start shooting at everyone that comes your way and you won't have to worry about raiders - it'll be your neighbors and what's left of the local badges that'll come after your crazy azz .... with a lack of fuel - vehicle transportation will be down and people will be cutting crosscountry and down cowpaths to their destination ....


I block the road with a sign saying danger if you go around.... after that we may have to negotiate the right-of-way aggressively!


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Start of uncontained disease in neighboring states, 
inability of police to control riot in neighboring states,
failure of my state to pay its employees, 
no available cash as banks, 
grocery stores with less than normally full shelves,
no water, fuel or electricity for more than a day, 
sudden rationing of water, fuel or electricity, 
sudden call back to US of overseas troops or 
large call up of Nat. Guard and Reserves are a few of my triggers.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

As for me.. as long as the grid is up, I see no reason for large groups to wander in my direction. I guess the first time you see a stranger you think maybe.. see a group and you start to look for it.. start to see several groups, and you know it's time regardless of what the scenario playing out nationally is.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> I block the road with a sign saying danger if you go around.... after that we may have to negotiate the right-of-way aggressively!


Mary Ingalls is blind and her little sister can't read .... but PA and 20 of his friends have big ole guns and a rope for a guy that shoots little kids and innocent people ....


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Two new front tires, an air filter element and 8 quarts of rotella-T for the tractor. Now to remove the stump jumper on the Hawg.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Illini Warrior said:


> Mary Ingalls is blind and her little sister can't read .... but PA and 20 of his friends have big ole guns and a rope for a guy that shoots little kids and innocent people ....


dude... I live on a farm.. know all of my neighbors and a). there is no reason for anybody to be walking on my road. b). there is no reason for them to walk around the barricade and sign saying stay out. c). no reason to keep walking after being verbally warned. d). walk further after a warning shot.... but If I feel the need to shoot the neighbors blind and illiterate daughters, you bet your ass they had it comin!!! lol


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Since I plan to bug in, one thought if had was about re-directing the evacuating 
masses away from my area. These little signs will go up at major intersections 
in an attempt to steer the masses away.



















In case they do come into my neighborhood, I hope this may induce them to pass up my house.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Montana Rancher said:


> My children live fairly close to me the longest distance is about 150 miles. I have talked 1-1 with all of them and here is my suggestion:
> 
> 1. If you see riots in the streets, pack your stuff and come out
> 2. If you go to the grocery store and the shelves are picked bare
> ...


Great list. I think it is in need of a war addition.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Sig and Bane have been training on night watch for some time. I say come on Bane you are on first watch and out he goes. The hey pick up on everything from the hill top here. The idea here is so I can get some rest if I need it. 18 hours a day I am awake. I could have my wife or one of my daughter s assist of course but a good dog is hard to beat. When they sound the alarm they are on to something within a half mile. They are great.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

paraquack said:


> Since I plan to bug in, one thought if had was about re-directing the evacuating
> masses away from my area. These little signs will go up at major intersections
> in an attempt to steer the masses away.
> View attachment 15793
> ...


thats funny!!!!


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## Rider (Apr 16, 2016)

After Hurricane Sandy smacked the hell out of us, the power was out, wires and trees blocked roads. 24/7 armed security watch went into effect as soon as the storm finally passed. Thank god it was nothing like Katrina with looters and violent people running around, and our community pulled together to help each other. Even though people were "civil" for the most part after the storm, 24hour security watch was always done and taken in shifts by each person. 

Your home is first when it comes to security watch. But we also had a few elderly neighbors, and we made sure we kept an eye on them as well since they would be an easy target for thieves/looters.

*Also an important thing to note is if you are alone and must pull 24 hour watch, you will eventually have to sleep. After 48hours without sleep you will start to hallucinate, at around 72 hours it will intensify and you will start to see and hear things that are not really there. By day 4 without sleep you would be a mental wreck and on the verge of going completely insane.


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