# What is a Veteran?



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I served 5 years Regular Navy and deployed twice to the US 6th fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean on an amphibious assault ship. (LPH-2). I served from 1985-1989 then 2 years Inactive ready reserve before receiving my honorable discharge in 1992. 

Here, then, is what gets stuck in my craw: Most of the sailors with whom I served (Facebook friends) are touting their veteran status. There are many pictures of them in Navy T shirts, Veteran ball caps and all of the veteran regalia they can adorn themselves in. The issue is, they were all kicked out with bad conduct discharges, other than honorable discharges and even a dishonorable discharge for criminal behavior. I just let it go, but man does it piss me off! That honorable discharge is no easy thing to earn. The good conduct medal, the letters of commendation etc. not a gimmee. WTF? Should I just ignore it or say........Let us all post our Honorable discharge certificates and our lapel pins we were given? 

Many of them smoked dope because they could'nt hang. Very frustrating.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

I say take the high road. But that doesn't mean not posting yours and adding a caption that says something like "Proud of MY service, what about you?". I think they'll get the idea you're calling them on their bs.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

I gave up a long time ago giving a tinker's damn about what others do. It's their life... let them live it. Stop worrying about what you think of them and care more about what they think of you.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Life long losers. Those of us that know can tell a poser a mile away. You have nothing to prove, don't stoop to their level.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Interesting subject that got me to thinking.

There are suspicions that many gangs (Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, MS-13, etc) encourage members to join and serve in the military for the weapons and warfare training to become a "better" gang member once they leave the military.

Say a gang members serves in the military then takes his training to the streets against Law Enforcement Officials to wreak havoc, sell drugs, commit crimes, import illegals, rape, murder, steal etc etc. Should this person be "rewarded" with Veteran status?

https://greatamericanoutdoors.com/2...gs-that-have-infiltrated-in-the-u-s-military/
https://www.gangenforcement.com/gangs-in-the-military.html
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/gang-activity-in-the-u-s-military-3354199


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I served 5 years Regular Navy and deployed twice to the US 6th fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean on an amphibious assault ship. (LPH-2). I served from 1985-1989 then 2 years Inactive ready reserve before receiving my honorable discharge in 1992.
> 
> Here, then, is what gets stuck in my craw: Most of the sailors with whom I served (Facebook friends) are touting their veteran status. There are many pictures of them in Navy T shirts, Veteran ball caps and all of the veteran regalia they can adorn themselves in. The issue is, they were all kicked out with bad conduct discharges, other than honorable discharges and even a dishonorable discharge for criminal behavior. I just let it go, but man does it piss me off! That honorable discharge is no easy thing to earn. The good conduct medal, the letters of commendation etc. not a gimmee. WTF? Should I just ignore it or say........Let us all post our Honorable discharge certificates and our lapel pins we were given?
> 
> Many of them smoked dope because they could'nt hang. Very frustrating.


Kinda like a certain poser I know.

Never got closer to Vietnam than Germany, . . . heard he was given a convenience of the military discharge, . . . as a private, . . .

He parades all the Vietnam regalia he can pile on, . . . uses the excuse "I'm a Vietnam Era" veteran.

Makes me sick, . . . but I just take the high road, . . . knowing my 18 years were honorable, left as an E7, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I served 5 years Regular Navy and deployed twice to the US 6th fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean on an amphibious assault ship. (LPH-2). I served from 1985-1989 then 2 years Inactive ready reserve before receiving my honorable discharge in 1992.
> 
> Here, then, is what gets stuck in my craw: Most of the sailors with whom I served (Facebook friends) are touting their veteran status. There are many pictures of them in Navy T shirts, Veteran ball caps and all of the veteran regalia they can adorn themselves in. The issue is, they were all kicked out with bad conduct discharges, other than honorable discharges and even a dishonorable discharge for criminal behavior. I just let it go, but man does it piss me off! That honorable discharge is no easy thing to earn. The good conduct medal, the letters of commendation etc. not a gimmee. WTF? Should I just ignore it or say........Let us all post our Honorable discharge certificates and our lapel pins we were given?
> 
> Many of them smoked dope because they could'nt hang. Very frustrating.


did they have 3 years of good service then got kicked out.. or 6 months??

I knew a Marine, had 6 years of great service and was up for E-5. His grandmother (who raised him) passed away and he went home for the funeral. The day he came back the duty NCO for who knows what reason decided to screw with the guy because he had been on "VACATION".. The guy said screw it and left.. he was gone for over 6 months... end up getting discharged

is he a veteran

everybody has a story

one thing I hear a lot... "If I had stayed in" or "I would be retired now".. or the big one I "Thought" about joining

I did 21 years, went every place I was told to go and did what I was told to do.. closest I ever got to shooting was about 1 mile (I heard it but could not see it). I hold in high regard those that exchanged fire with people trying to kill them... however the veteran status is the same for all folks.... why because we were willing...

and for some folks they were willing but could not complete a contract...

just me rambling


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

"Title 38 of the Code of Federal Regulations defines a veteran as “a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service and who was discharged or released under conditions other than dishonorable.” This definition explains that any individual that completed a service for any branch of armed forces classifies as a veteran as long as they were not dishonorably discharged. However, with regard to applicable benefits, other considerations are important and will be covered in later sections."

Then you have Public law M21-1, Part III, Subpart iii, 2.K.3.
There are more that cover services and benefits a person may or may not be entitled do as a result of their veteran status.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Being in Madison, the entire town hated veterans, be they from Vietnam or Idaho.

But here's my take on this. The war is over. If you want to see what that war hath wrought, come with me to the Middleton VA Hospital, and we'll deliver some lunch and personal letters to the veterans who can still stand up. 

Taking a scared, clueless veteran to OPT/PT therapy is quite another facet. Speaking of that, it's been way too long since I did any volunteer work there. A few times I went to their little chapel by the side door, knelt down and cried until the tears stopped...


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## watcher (Aug 24, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Interesting subject that got me to thinking.
> 
> There are suspicions that many gangs (Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, MS-13, etc) encourage members to join and serve in the military for the weapons and warfare training to become a "better" gang member once they leave the military.
> 
> ...


There is only one reward for them...(the criminal types only)


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I really dislike posers and wannabes. In my opinion they are stealing valor from those who died in the service of our country.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I really dislike posers and wannabes. In my opinion they are stealing valor from those who died in the service of our country.


It really pissed me off when YouTube took Don Shipley (Buds131) down. Why? Because he told the truth.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> I served 5 years Regular Navy and deployed twice to the US 6th fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean on an amphibious assault ship. (LPH-2). I served from 1985-1989 then 2 years Inactive ready reserve before receiving my honorable discharge in 1992.
> 
> Here, then, is what gets stuck in my craw: Most of the sailors with whom I served (Facebook friends) are touting their veteran status. There are many pictures of them in Navy T shirts, Veteran ball caps and all of the veteran regalia they can adorn themselves in. The issue is, they were all kicked out with bad conduct discharges, other than honorable discharges and even a dishonorable discharge for criminal behavior. I just let it go, but man does it piss me off! That honorable discharge is no easy thing to earn. The good conduct medal, the letters of commendation etc. not a gimmee. WTF? Should I just ignore it or say........Let us all post our Honorable discharge certificates and our lapel pins we were given?
> 
> Many of them smoked dope because they could'nt hang. Very frustrating.


so I got this cousin. I love him like a brother. He was in the National guard for a bit but split because they didn't give him what he expected (promotion job assignmnt etc). So 35 years have gone by and they finally sent him a general discharge.

He talks about applying for benefits, etc. I just tell him, you should man, you should give it a go. Why? cause I love my cousin. And I don't care if he gets respect from others for his "service". It doesn't have any impact on me or my service, it just gives him something to talk to me about. Now a days I'd rather talk about his stuff than mine anyways.

He is the least of the pretenders out there. Everyone is a SPecial Ops guy/gal. EVen 90 year old women. ITs like meeting women online, I assume they are all 45 year old fat bald guys and it puts their words in a new context for me.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

csi-tech said:


> I served 5 years Regular Navy and deployed twice to the US 6th fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean on an amphibious assault ship. (LPH-2). I served from 1985-1989 then 2 years Inactive ready reserve before receiving my honorable discharge in 1992.


I served in the Regular Navy for 5 years too. I went in for 4 and extended a year. I served on CVN68 and CVN73. I made 2nd Class Petty Officer (AT2) in 3 years.

I'm glad I enlisted. It forced me to grow up and gain a better perspective of the world around me.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Old SF Guy said:


> so I got this cousin. I love him like a brother. He was in the National guard for a bit but split because they didn't give him what he expected (promotion job assignmnt etc). So 35 years have gone by and they finally sent him a general discharge.
> 
> He talks about applying for benefits, etc. I just tell him, you should man, you should give it a go. Why? cause I love my cousin. And I don't care if he gets respect from others for his "service". It doesn't have any impact on me or my service, it just gives him something to talk to me about. Now a days I'd rather talk about his stuff than mine anyways.
> 
> He is the least of the pretenders out there. Everyone is a SPecial Ops guy/gal. EVen 90 year old women. ITs like meeting women online, I assume they are all 45 year old fat bald guys and it puts their words in a new context for me.


Can someone with a General Discharge receive veteran benefits?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Can someone with a General Discharge receive veteran benefits?


 Yes .


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Yes .


I did not know that, thanks.

At least the VFW and American Legion still requires an Honorable to join.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I did not know that, thanks.
> 
> At least the VFW and American Legion still requires an Honorable to join.


They have restricted some VA benefits in more modern times but that is not in every case. This will give you a good over view . But will still leave questions. I have seen many upgraded.

https://www.operationmilitarykids.org/types-of-military-discharge/#general-discharge

VFW requirements:
"2: Honorable Service - must have served in the Armed Forces of the United States and either received a discharge of Honorable or General (Under Honorable Conditions) or be currently serving."


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> They have restricted some VA benefits in more modern times but that is not in every case.
> 
> VFW requirements:
> "2: Honorable Service - must have served in the Armed Forces of the United States and either received a discharge of Honorable or General (Under Honorable Conditions) or be currently serving."


VFW must be getting hard up.
They even allow certain Navy submarine vets in. And anyone who served in Korea at any time.

I just checked legion.org and an Honorable is still required, although the Legion just got Congress to authorize that anyone who served Active Duty since December 7, 1941 is eligible. The Cold War is now considered "a period of war" for Legion membership.

Vietnam Veterans of America has never considered type of discharge as a requirement for membership, only duty dates. A lot of Nam vets got "bad paper".

AMVETS requires an Honorable also.

For the record, my discharge is Honorable, and I received the Army Good Conduct Medal even though I did not serve the full three years usually required, since I served in a combat zone that requirement is waived.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> VFW must be getting hard up.
> They even allow certain Navy submarine vets in. And anyone who served in Korea at any time.
> 
> I just checked legion.org and an Honorable is still required, although the Legion just got Congress to authorize that anyone who served Active Duty since December 7, 1941 is eligible. The Cold War is now considered "a period of war" for Legion membership.
> ...


General is consider Honorable and is ok with VFW. The VFW rule number 2 explains it. general discharge is not a punishment. If a person servers less than 180 day in a training status they would not receive VA benefits. But that is by another regulation.
Example private smith finishes basic but fails to met standards following basic and is given a general with in 180 days. Private smith would not receive benefits of any kind.

Failure to maintain physical standards
Failure to meet professional qualification requirements, and
Any other failure to meet a military standard.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> I served 5 years Regular Navy and deployed twice to the US 6th fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean on an amphibious assault ship. (LPH-2). I served from 1985-1989 then 2 years Inactive ready reserve before receiving my honorable discharge in 1992.
> 
> Here, then, is what gets stuck in my craw: Most of the sailors with whom I served (Facebook friends) are touting their veteran status. There are many pictures of them in Navy T shirts, Veteran ball caps and all of the veteran regalia they can adorn themselves in. The issue is, they were all kicked out with bad conduct discharges, other than honorable discharges and even a dishonorable discharge for criminal behavior. I just let it go, but man does it piss me off! That honorable discharge is no easy thing to earn. The good conduct medal, the letters of commendation etc. not a gimmee. WTF? Should I just ignore it or say........Let us all post our Honorable discharge certificates and our lapel pins we were given?
> 
> Many of them smoked dope because they could'nt hang. Very frustrating.


Just let it wash off, and move on with life, I am a vet with 2 active terms, and a 6 year stint in the NG. I don't wear any regalia, such as hats or t-shirts with Airborne on them, because it is counter-productive to me. 
People would probably think that I was a poser anyway; and then I would have to knock some teeth out.:devil:

I don't care if people don't know that I am a vet. What I do is fly an American flag on my front porch, with some Trump banners too. I wear a MAGA hat, or a boonie hat, or a Georgia football hat, because my Army days are over.

I try my best to be the best American citizen that I can be and that is my service to country now. I will wear some camo though, but my only BDU camo is an Army field jacket. 
The rest is Mossy Oak and Chinese knock off stuff; and that works for me.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I wear a Vietnam veteran cap, or a 5th Infantry Division cap mainly as a tool to meet other vets and recruit them for membership in the VSO's I belong to. It's always great to meet another Nam vet.

Besides, I'm proud of my service. I volunteered when so many others ran and hid from the draft.
Less than 10% of men my age served in Vietnam.
Many, many became "professional" college students to maintain a Student Deferment. Many of these people became lawyers, politicians, professors, and in my opinion steered this country in the wrong direction.
Many, many got letters from their doctors for "medical conditions" that may or may not have been real. Trump is an example.

Those who did not have rich parents to stay in college or buy a doctors excuse ran away to Canada.
And don't even get me started on Ted Nugent dodging the draft.

Then, there were young men who believed in patriotism and their country, and either showed up for induction when they got the notice, or volunteered as I did.

2.5 million men and women actually served IN Vietnam. Of those, the VA estimates there are 850,000 of us left.

I'm DAMN PROUD to be a Vietnam Veteran.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

My old Dad served in the Army.

Growing up he didn't mention his time in the Army hardly ever. I don't even know the dates of his service but it was the early 1950's. I have no idea if he saw combat or anything. Mom cannot or will not talk about his Army years except for his fondness for his favorite base, Heidelberg Germany. Other than Heidelberg, I had no idea what places he went or where he was stationed, or were he did basic or anything.

Many many years later, I had the opportunity to visit Germany and he encouraged me, no he almost "demanded" that I visit Heidelberg. :tango_face_smile:

After I visited Heidelberg, he talked to me a couple of times about how much he enjoyed Heidelberg and Germany. It was more than fondness, it was almost joy. He loved the Hot Rod Muscle cars from the late 1940's and 1950's but when he returned from Germany, he brought with him a Volkswagen.

I'd like to think he smuggled it back but regardless, it wasn't the car that you'd associate my Dad with...55, 57 Chevy's and his last muscle car a 69 Camaro. Other than pictures with me and my sister as babies near the VW, I don't remember it.

When he did try and talk to me about things, I was a young man with my own life, wife, kids job etc and he was an old man, sick with cancer...shame on me, I didn't really listen like I should.

He always attended the local Veteran's Day parades and made it a point to travel and attend Veteran's Days events at our son's schools when they had a Veterans Day Celebration. Funny, he always wore a suit and tie to the kids schools.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I guess I shouldn't worry much about it. Last night we all signed on to a huge FB messenger conversation. There were about 12 of my shipmates who I spoke with. Good times. I guess it's none of my concern who made it to the finish line and received a good conduct medal and an honorable discharge.........It was just me and one other sailor though. Everyone else smoked weed and got the boot. OK, maybe I do care a little.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Can someone with a General Discharge receive veteran benefits?


Nope, but who am I to ruin his hopes. usually a general can be upgraded to an honorable after some period of time.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I guess I shouldn't worry much about it. Last night we all signed on to a huge FB messenger conversation. There were about 12 of my shipmates who I spoke with. Good times. I guess it's none of my concern who made it to the finish line and received a good conduct medal and an honorable discharge.........It was just me and one other sailor though. Everyone else smoked weed and got the boot. OK, maybe I do care a little.


A lot of us in Nam smoked weed too, but the officers looked the other way as long as we did our duty. 
If they busted everyone, there wouldn't have been any one left to fight their little war.

I don't know how it was in the big rear areas, though. Da Nang, Cam Rahn Bay, places like that. Guys probably did get busted back there.

The farther away you got from the generals, and the closer you got to the enemy, the rules became much more relaxed.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

A very dear and close friend of our family is a VA suicide prevention coordinator. She has heard a gun go off on the phone and it fall to the floor. She struggles with that one I know but in 12 years at the VA in this role she has lost only two Veterens. Talk to her and she will never tell you about those two. She will tell you:

About the transvestites that demand their undivided attention for not getting enough service connection,
The drug abuser that gambles his rent away and wants to know why the VA won't pay for it, 
The guy wanting more money out of the VA because his tinder girl friend is blackmailing him for $3k,

One of her favorites is the guy who runs off to Vegas and will kill himself if the VA doesn't pay for his Uber ride home to SF. That one is apparently a monthly occurrence.

My dad was in WWII, Brother in Vietnam and I know many of their friends great Veterans who deserve everything we can give them. There is a very dark group though draining our society with little actual service to it.



csi-tech said:


> I served 5 years Regular Navy and deployed twice to the US 6th fleet in the Eastern Mediterranean on an amphibious assault ship. (LPH-2). I served from 1985-1989 then 2 years Inactive ready reserve before receiving my honorable discharge in 1992.
> 
> Here, then, is what gets stuck in my craw: Most of the sailors with whom I served (Facebook friends) are touting their veteran status. There are many pictures of them in Navy T shirts, Veteran ball caps and all of the veteran regalia they can adorn themselves in. The issue is, they were all kicked out with bad conduct discharges, other than honorable discharges and even a dishonorable discharge for criminal behavior. I just let it go, but man does it piss me off! That honorable discharge is no easy thing to earn. The good conduct medal, the letters of commendation etc. not a gimmee. WTF? Should I just ignore it or say........Let us all post our Honorable discharge certificates and our lapel pins we were given?
> 
> Many of them smoked dope because they could'nt hang. Very frustrating.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

stowlin said:


> A very dear and close friend of our family is a VA suicide prevention coordinator. She has heard a gun go off on the phone and it fall to the floor. She struggles with that one I know but in 12 years at the VA in this role she has lost only two Veterens. Talk to her and she will never tell you about those two. She will tell you:
> 
> About the transvestites that demand their undivided attention for not getting enough service connection,
> The drug abuser that gambles his rent away and wants to know why the VA won't pay for it,
> ...


My Vet Center counselor retired after one of my best friends, a Marine tanker I knew for 20 years and his patient, committed suicide. The counselor just had enough.

I personally know several vets who are milking the heck out of the system. One, a female, joined in '73 and never left the states, but through what she learned as an American Legion Service Officer is now collecting 100% disability.
While guys dying from Agent Orange get nothing because they die before their cases get approved. "Delay, deny, until they die".


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> My Vet Center counselor retired after one of my best friends, a Marine tanker I knew for 20 years and his patient, committed suicide. The counselor just had enough.
> 
> I personally know several vets who are milking the heck out of the system. One, a female, joined in '73 and never left the states, but through what she learned as an American Legion Service Officer is now collecting 100% disability.
> While guys dying from Agent Orange get nothing because they die before their cases get approved. "Delay, deny, until they die".


Sorry about your friend, RPD. May his soul rest in peace.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> A lot of us in Nam smoked weed too, but the officers looked the other way as long as we did our duty.
> If they busted everyone, there wouldn't have been any one left to fight their little war.
> 
> I don't know how it was in the big rear areas, though. Da Nang, Cam Rahn Bay, places like that. Guys probably did get busted back there.
> ...


I once saw a documentary where the guys were taking hits from the barrel of a rifle.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> My old Dad served in the Army.
> 
> Growing up he didn't mention his time in the Army hardly ever. I don't even know the dates of his service but it was the early 1950's. I have no idea if he saw combat or anything. Mom cannot or will not talk about his Army years except for his fondness for his favorite base, Heidelberg Germany. Other than Heidelberg, I had no idea what places he went or where he was stationed, or were he did basic or anything.
> 
> ...


He was a handsome young guy. I bet his son is as good looking. :vs_smile:


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