# Knife fight,fixed blade. KaBar vs Buck.



## Oddcaliber

Got one of each. Go!


----------



## csi-tech

I keep a Bear Claw in my ballistic vest. If it ever comes down to a knife fight I just want to slash my opponents jugular vein and let him die from exhanguination. I also like a Tanto point fixed blade with a paracord wrapped handle.


----------



## AnotherSOFSurvivor

First and last time I had to pull a knife I got it stuck in a wall, got my stupid ass saved, but I like keeping around a KBar because its classic and can open chef boyardi cans

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


----------



## inceptor

I getting too old to be in a knife fight.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

I have two KaBar USMC fighting knives, and a Buck 119.
If I ever had to be in a "knife fight" I'd rather have an M6 bayonet. Firmly affixed to a Springfield M1A rifle.

"WHAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE BAYONET?"


----------



## Medic33

!!!!!!!!!BLOOD AND GUTS DRILL SGT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kabar all the way.


----------



## Targetshooter

I vote a fixed blade all the way . Hell I am smart , I will shoot them first when I see there knife .


----------



## Prepared One

inceptor said:


> I getting too old to be in a knife fight.


My preferred method as well. Classic scene.

I have a couple of BK -7's and a SP4-95 Navy fighting knife and one or two marine fighting knives around here but my experience with knife fighting is that it should be the last and final choice.


----------



## stevekozak

inceptor said:


> I getting too old to be in a knife fight.


This!


----------



## The Tourist

I wouldn't fight with a knife, if I have 21 feet I'm going to draw the Kimber.

If I have to "fend" to create space between myself and the aggressor, I polished a TOPS C.U.T. 4.0 that will cut you to the bone.


----------



## Grinch2

In the Ka-Bar vs Buck argument; I like both, I like my Buck synthetic handle Vanguard a lot, but I also adore my leather handled Hunter and Little Fin. I've never been in a genuine knife fight despite being stabbed 12 times on 5 separate occasions. As far as picking one, I would go with my Buck only one the basis on the handle might not slip due to the rubberized/ knurled plastic handle. 

On a side note I like Mora, Hultafors, Case, Elk Ridge and my Helle. But I agree with the many others where if I must engage in a knife fight; I'm not using a knife, either a gun or something heavy that I can swing for me: maybe an ax.


----------



## MisterMills357

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have two KaBar USMC fighting knives, and a Buck 119.
> If I ever had to be in a "knife fight" I'd rather have an M6 bayonet. Firmly affixed to a Springfield M1A rifle.
> 
> "WHAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE BAYONET?"


*The spirit of the bayonet is "To Kill!" I learned that in FA, practicing riot control.*


----------



## MisterMills357

I have had both knives and I do not have a preference that is hard and fast, but the Ka-Bar might edge out the Buck....then on the other hand....it might not.
But, seriously, here is my choice: 
1. Kabar 
2. Buck 119.


----------



## SOCOM42

Kabar and a Randal #1, but way too old for that crap. 1911 does better.


----------



## MisterMills357

csi-tech said:


> I keep a Bear Claw in my ballistic vest. If it ever comes down to a knife fight I just want to slash my opponents jugular vein and let him die from exhanguination. I also like a Tanto point fixed blade with a paracord wrapped handle.


I am not being a smart-aleck here, but I think that you meant exsangunation, or the loss of blood. In this instance the utter and complete dumping of it onto the ground.
OK, I am being a smart-aleck, please don't hate me.:laugh: BTW: I carry a knife at all times, right now it is a cheapo from Home Depot, brand-name of Coast.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

MisterMills357 said:


> *The spirit of the bayonet is "To Kill!" I learned that in FA, practicing riot control.*


Almost, but not quite.

"To Kill, Drill Sergeant"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!"

"TO KILL, DRILL SERGEANT!!!!"

"What makes the grass grow?"

"BLOOD, DRILL SERGEANT!!!!"


----------



## bigwheel

Only dummies bring a knife to a gun fight. lol.


----------



## SOCOM42

A long, long time ago, I took some fighting lessons from a Filipino scout,

that convinced me to keep the hell out of a knife fight, you have to be craze or harbor a death wish.

A machete works good along with a bolo, even a Katana, 

as long as the other guy has a 2 inch pocket knife, I still want a gun, a big gun.

My father in-law used a kabar on the canal, killing six japs with it after he ran out of ammo for his BAR.

The fight devolved into night hand to hand, that is what he got the Silver Star for.

He was pretty badly wounded, 

spent a lot of time in Hawaii recovering only to be shot up real bad on Okinawa went he went back.


----------



## Boss Dog

A trained fighter with a Walmart special will shred a wannabe with a Kabar.

As far as Buck vs Kabar, I think it's just personal preference, I'd like either one. 

No training here, I will do my utmost to stay out of a knife fight.


----------



## The Tourist

bigwheel said:


> Only dummies bring a knife to a gun fight. lol.


Clearly you didn't live in the Silver Spring neighborhood in Milwaukee during the 1950s...

Start practicing "The Tueller Drill." If I can get closer than 21 feet to you, you'll be cut before you can draw.


----------



## MisterMills357

rice paddy daddy said:


> Almost, but not quite.
> 
> "To Kill, Drill Sergeant"
> 
> "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!"
> 
> "TO KILL, DRILL SERGEANT!!!!"
> 
> "What makes the grass grow?"
> 
> "BLOOD, DRILL SERGEANT!!!!"


I am having flashbacks of May 1975,when I went through Basic at Fort Knox.I had a drill sgt with a borderline personality malfunction. 
I am happy to say that I matched him, when I went through Airborne at the age of 37. I can be borderline myself, but it can come in handy.:vs_laugh: 
The SPIRIT of the BAYONET is TO KILL!!


----------



## MisterMills357

SOCOM42 said:


> A long, long time ago, I took some fighting lessons from a Filipino scout,
> 
> that convinced me to keep the hell out of a knife fight, you have to be craze or harbor a death wish.
> 
> A machete works good along with a bolo, even a Katana,
> 
> as long as the other guy has a 2 inch pocket knife, I still want a gun, a big gun.
> 
> My father in-law used a kabar on the canal, killing six japs with it after he ran out of ammo for his BAR.
> 
> The fight devolved into night hand to hand, that is what he got the Silver Star for.
> 
> He was pretty badly wounded,
> 
> spent a lot of time in Hawaii recovering only to be shot up real bad on Okinawa went he went back.


*That pretty well sums up the matter, it can all turn into a nightmare, so be ready to fight to the death.*


----------



## rice paddy daddy

MisterMills357 said:


> I am having flashbacks of May 1975,when I went through Basic at Fort Knox.I had a drill sgt with a borderline personality malfunction.
> I am happy to say that I matched him, when I went through Airborne at the age of 37. I can be borderline myself, but it can come in handy.:vs_laugh:
> The SPIRIT of the BAYONET is TO KILL!!


My Senior Drill Sergeant was a Korean War combat veteran of the 7th Infantry Division.
You know, The Bayonet Division.


----------



## RJAMES

I carry a folding knife - it has a seat belt cutter, glass breaking tip and a 4 inch blade. i t has been used to help get at least 6 people out of cars. The glass breaker will work but other tools if you had them would be better. First time I used it I used the glass breaker tip to pry up the edge of a door and get a guy out. Gas leaking every where and the cigarette he was smoking glowing red on the floor in the cab. 

I carry it regardless of what I am wearing suit, slacks, jeans , shorts. In casual cloths I also carry a multi tool. 

I have a bayonet that I purchased to have on my web gear when I was in the Army I served in medical units and was not issued bayonet. I liked having a big knife while in he field and sometimes a big non-issue knife would get a CSM / SGM attention in a bad way. I never had any one ever ask about my bayonet or mention it. I kept a set of gear parade ready along with my field set. 

The best knife? The one you have on you.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

MrMills, you have to remember our issue rifles were M14's, real wood and steel.
Bayonet training was done almost daily in Basic. We practiced on dummies, on each other, and practiced the moves we learned in the pugil stick pit.There was even a bayonet assault course.
I don't know how things were done in the M16 era. I was not issued one until my two week POR training - Prior to Overseas Replacement. And we did no bayonet drill there.


----------



## sideKahr

No way! EVERYBODY looses in a knife fight. I don't plan on getting into one, I can outrun a knife.


----------



## RJAMES

Now that I started down memory lane-- let me tell you about a rambo knife. A commo specialist was assigned to me and he had a huge serrated half sword . Wish I had told him he could not have it. 

So we are a couple hours by helicopter from Panama city Panama in a pretty remote area doing immunizations, health screenings and dental care set up next to a school. I purchase a hog off of a local farmer and make arraignments for him to butcher it at is farm bring it up to the school where some village women were to cook it. I had also brought along a 50 lb bag of rice and the Village women were going to cook it as well and pitch in some side dishes and fruit . School kids do some singing, local music and some dancing . 

I am off helping the veterinarian do some hoof work on a horse. Get back to see the commo guy , the farmer, group of kids and a Doctor / Colonel who was assigned to me for the week with the hog snubbed up to a tree in the play ground. I was not happy as the blood was going to make a mess - one of my reason for letting the farmer do it at is place . Before I could get over there and make them move the pig starts squealing the kids start screaming then running . The doc who had been bending over stands up turns around his face white as could be takes about 5 steps and passes out. I am like what the hell!! 

Mean while the pig is screaming its head off . He has the big rambo knife/sword stuck in him with a good 3 to 4 inches sticking out of him as he thrashes around. Before it is done I end up having to shoot him as he was snubbed with a rope that he ended up cutting so that I now have a hog with a knife sticking out of is neck and a playground full of kids running around. Fun times. 

Back to the doc he is out cold and covered in blood . I do three surveys head to toe look / listen/ feel and cannot figure out what the hell is going on . Told myself to breath , relax, think. No cuts on him - not his blood . Elevate the feet and wait till he regained consciousness in a minute of two. He did turn out to be injured . He was the one who while I was gone told the farmer to bring the hog up to the school to be butchered. He used the serrated knife to slice the hogs throat but the serrations on the top of the knife were so big they hung up and he could not pull it back out . The hog in its thrashings had stuck the knife into the top of his foot right thru his boot. He then passed out and went into shock. I cleaned the foot , irrigated the wound and put him on oral antibiotics. We were leaving the area the next day so waited and put him on the first chopper. I told the pilots straight to the hospital with him then drop your other passengers and come back but take him to the ER as he needed IV antibiotics as soon as possible. 

I moved on after a resupply and switching out some personnel for anther 3 to 4 weeks thinking all in all it turned out not to be that bad. Nice party that night and the hog tasted great, none of he village kids got hurt. But here it is weeks later and I see this Doc limping up a hospital hall way. I ask him how he is doing and he tells me he had the pilots take him to the airfield where his car was, further he had not had any IV antibiotics just oral. Ended up having to get his Commander to order him admitted and treated. 

Not a fan of great big knives/ half swords especially with serrations.


----------



## SOCOM42

All my DI's were Korean War Vets, I went in Sept. 60, not that long after the armistice.

We did bayonet training in basic, AIT and BUT, we were issued M1 Garands.

Put some muscle behind a thrust with it or an M14, you are going all the way to the muzzle. 

You need to be young, dumb and hung to assault anything with the pointy thingy.


----------



## turbo6

Here's Kabar's most lethal fighting knife:


----------



## The Tourist

RJAMES said:


> Not a fan of great big knives/ half swords especially with serrations.


Neither am I. All of my knives are in the 3 to 4 inch length, no matter what they were designed for (food prep, EDC, camping, etc.)

The biggest knife I own in a 4.5 inch Bradford Guardian 4, which by the very ergonomic handle seems to be aimed at bushcraft. The rounded design of the handle and palm swells guarantees no "hot spots" form on your hands from extended use.

But like the old adage says, _"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."_

As a knife salesman, I do not understand the "tactical craze." If you read popular knife magazines, you'd think there would be knife dueling going on every night. Customers that bought "fighting knives" usually wind up storing them in a drawer and buying frame-lock, hard-use folder with a 3.5 inch blade.

Right now my two EDCs are the TOPS Mil-Spie 3.5T and the ZT0909. You'll notice both blades are made from superior steel and provide good edge retention.

I do believe knives (of any design) can be used as fending weapons. But like I tell my clients, if you tally up what you really do with a knife, 75% of its use is food prep and 25% is opening the mail and UPS boxes.


----------



## MisterMills357

rice paddy daddy said:


> MrMills, you have to remember our issue rifles were M14's, real wood and steel.
> Bayonet training was done almost daily in Basic. We practiced on dummies, on each other, and practiced the moves we learned in the pugil stick pit.There was even a bayonet assault course.
> I don't know how things were done in the M16 era. I was not issued one until my two week POR training - Prior to Overseas Replacement. And we did no bayonet drill there.


I had some hard-core bayonet training, when I was a 13B in Germany; we trained in riot control, and we used bayonets that were unsheathed, on at least one occasion.
The OIC put 1/2 of the guys in front acting as rioters, and then we switched places. It had a dramatic effect on me, I got out of the way, the bayonets were imposing.

The Commies were stirring up trouble everywhere, and Baider-Meinhoff was still around, if moribund. And we cannon-cocker's, were instructed on such matters as a butt-stroke, and killing them if we had to. It was pretty graphic stuff: stick it in hard, and yank it upwards, to gut them.

The butt stroke was instructed as, use the gun like a pivot, and sweep up in an arc. The M16 works very well as a mount for a bayonet; the knife had the top edge sharpened for about 3", so it was double-edged, and 7" long. I would like to have one, it was good quality steel, but nobody ever sharpened them. They were passed thru too many hands for that.

The pugil stick and dummies were not being used anymore, but there was still some pretty good instruction. It depended on who the OIC was, if he was gung-ho, the training was too. (The year was 1975/1976.)

The M16/AR15 has a butt that is reasonably stout, and it can deliver a killer stroke when needed; but on the other hand, a piece can be busted out of the plastic, simply by dropping it on a hard surface. 
It happened to me once, the gun still worked, but Jeez Louise, it should not have broken. To me it was unreasonably easy to break the plastic.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Ahh, yes.
Butt strokes, parry's, and the mother of all moves the Slash And Smash.
Bayonets are not as archaic as some may think. A friend of mine was shot and bayoneted in close combat by an NVA using an AK47.


----------



## SOCOM42

Here are some of my Ka-bars.

There are some Cold Steel blades in there also, top; big Bowie, SS Tanto, SRK.

There were made here in the 80's before they sent Mfg. to chinkland.

The Stainless Tanto was made in Japan, can shave with it.

The best one is the Randal #1 fighter.

The folders are my EDC knives, no intent to use any of them in a fight, gun first.

The double edge dagger style is what I carried in my boot when on the PD.


----------



## Damskienet

Got one of each


----------



## MisterMills357

rice paddy daddy said:


> Ahh, yes.
> Butt strokes, parry's, and the mother of all moves the Slash And Smash.
> Bayonets are not as archaic as some may think. A friend of mine was shot and bayoneted in close combat by an NVA using an AK47.


Sorry to hear it, that is something that would stay in the memory of a man. I was taught to stick it in hard, and to yank upwards; to gut them. And I was taught to smash their head with a butt stroke; it is a brutal business, that is for certain.


----------



## ben.goldberg

I have a buck reaper which has served me well. I have no combat experience with it except for some watermelons.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## Jakthesoldier

I call BS on all of you. Google 21 foot rule and tell me again how you would shoot someone before they stabbed you. 
Maybe if they came running at you from 50 yards holding the knife like a horror movie villain screaming at you, but in reality, most of you would bleed out like a stuck pig.
Sorry, not sorry.


----------



## jeager

In my not humble opinion blades will be much more useful than firearms.
Please. I didn't say blades should replace firearms.
I have a place for all TOOLS to help me survive whatever needs survival from.
Including assaults from Liberal Snowflakes. ( Ear muffs. ):vs_lol:


----------



## SOCOM42

Jakthesoldier said:


> I call BS on all of you. Google 21 foot rule and tell me again how you would shoot someone before they stabbed you.
> Maybe if they came running at you from 50 yards holding the knife like a horror movie villain screaming at you, but in reality, most of you would bleed out like a stuck pig.
> Sorry, not sorry.


Jak, I would only in desperation us a knife in a fight.

In at 21 you can't react fast enough.

I took a few lessons from a Filipino Scout, I decided then and there that my only advantage is my skill with a gun.

Those lessons were 56 years ago, nothing has changed my viewpoint since.

He could have cut out my liver and handed it to me before I knew it was out.

All my knives are for utility purposes, some shown are Christmas presents from several people over many decades.


----------



## The Tourist

SOCOM42 said:


> All my knives are for utility purposes.


In that case, might I recommend the TOPS Mil-Spie 3.5T, it would fit right into your collection.

It can easily serve as a camping or hunting knife. But because it's made from cobalt steel it's also a folder that's not going to fail under wilderness or prepping situations. I recommend the tanto profile because not everyone is a polisher. With two straight bevels, anyone can touch up the blade.

I own two of them. I would have had four, but I have greedy customers...


----------



## The Tourist

As to the concerns of the OP, I have also started carrying "urban fixed blades."

These are shorter, but sharper than most of the bigger stuff sold as combat knives. I have a 3-inch Bradford made from 3V, and I just bought myself another TOPS C.A.T black tanto with a red handle. This one will be polished to the max for the inside pockets of jackets.

TOPS makes some of the finest 1095 steel products I own. Everyone should own a C.U.T. 4.0, it does everything.


----------



## SOCOM42

The Tourist said:


> In that case, might I recommend the TOPS Mil-Spie 3.5T, it would fit right into your collection.
> 
> It can easily serve as a camping or hunting knife. But because it's made from cobalt steel it's also a folder that's not going to fail under wilderness or prepping situations. I recommend the tanto profile because not everyone is a polisher. With two straight bevels, anyone can touch up the blade.
> 
> I own two of them. I would have had four, but I have greedy customers...


Thanks for the input, however I am not buying any blades or guns, how many of either do I need?.

Those shown are about a third of what I have, now if could get back 30 years of my life I would be interested.

I have made several in the past out of D-2 steel, of which there was plenty of around here.


----------



## The Tourist

D2 is good steel, for example, most Medford knives are made from it.

Did you ever hear the old canard, "The cobbler's children have no shows." Well, that's how my knives usually look.

I solve the problem by buying tough alloys (S35VN, 3V or even VG-10), polish them, and then just put them in my jeans until they get reluctant to cut. I've used classic Whalers to cut Subway sandwiches. I'm my own worst enemy.


----------



## Aidjohn

This is realy good choice


----------



## ifithitu

I have a couple of K-BAR fixed blade knives and a Buck 119, all three are really very good knives in my opinion.


----------



## Smitty901

Buck 119 had it longer than my wife and Kids. Still as good today as it was over 40 years ago. No fancy special ninja steel or etching just a plan old solid reliable knife


----------



## The Tourist

I've also polished up a TOPS C.U.T. 4.0 for myself. I'm amazed at the way that alloy has improved over the decades. It used to be known as "soft steel" like used in a Marine's Ka-Bar so it would bend, but not break.

Those blanks were essentially slabs of old railroad tracks. But the density and the purity of the 1095 in this TOPS got it to polish like a CPM metal. I am very impressed.


----------



## homefire

I don't know a lot about knives, I have found this conversation entertaining...thank you.


----------

