# SssssssssNAKE! Bites



## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

How to Treat a Snake Bite
I’ve enjoyed most of the Rambo movies but there’s one scene that sticks in my mind, and has been parodied in the movie Hot Shots Part Deux! very well.

Yeah, it has to do with Rambo protecting himself from a snakebite. Unfortunately, not all of us can be like this reel-life icon as depicted in the tough guy one-man-army movies, and are susceptible to a snakebite especially if we are out in the jungle and on our own – with no prior experience.

In more cases than not, it becomes evident that you will not be able to escape the venom of a snake especially since it will catch you unawares with its speed and precision.

And since a snakebite is life-threatening, this means that you have to take steps to save yourself until you are able to find a hospital or even be able to find someone who can help you with a lasting cure.

Types of Snakebites
Usually there are two types of snakebites: venomous and non-venomous.

However, it is difficult for you to determine whether it is a venomous snakebite or not unless you use a particular method that will demonstrated in a video that you will find as a summary.

(Hint: It involves looking into the snake’s eyes… no fibbing here!)

Even though non-venomous snakebites are not life-threatening, they can be extremely painful for the person who has been bitten and can lead to infection later.

So you have ensure that you disinfect the wound with soap and water while also applying a disinfectant. Bandage it well so that any later infection is prevented. Remember to stay calm at all times…

How to treat a snakebite of the poisonous variety
So here are a few steps that you MUST keep in mind when dealing with a venomous snakebite:
Step #1: Get yourself or the person bitten away from the snake to prevent any additional snake bites.

Step #2: One important symptom of a venomous snakebite is the fact that the area swells up rapidly and severely. Ensure that you remove any constrictive clothing such as jewelry or clothing from the affected area.

Step #3: Ensure that the person rests as high activity increases blood flow, and the poison can spread faster throughout the body.

Step #4: Clean the wound with soap and water, and ensure that you tie a tight elastic bandage around the affected area so that you prevent blood from flowing to the heart but allowing blood to flow throughout the body from the heart.

Step #5: Very important, use a splint to restrict movement (to stop blood to the heart in doing this) of the affected area, especially since your legs are most susceptible to snakebites. Ensure that the level of affected area is kept below the heart even when in a resting position.

Step #6: Ensure that the victim is calm at all times, and if possible, give him or her to fluids to drink if they are conscious.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Get this book!

I knew Maynard Cox. He addressed our sailors on safety and survival many times in the 90s. (If your were in the Navy, you knew what a "safety stand-down" was) And he was used as a reference and consultant by special forces and FL hospitals before he died.

Besides being a Korea and Vietnam Vet he was a remarkable "Snake Man"

http://www.amazon.com/Protocol-Emergency-Procedures-Management-Snakebites/dp/B0024BAR0Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1439508087&sr=1-1&refinements=p_27%3AMaynard+H.+Cox

"POISONUS BITE SPECIALIST"

P.S. Unfortunately, I loaned mine out and forgot who had it.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

The medical experts here in diamondback country say to keep the limb at heart level and do NOT apply ice or any restrictive band. Keep the person calm and get them to medical care ASAP. (Call 911 - don't drive.) Many rattlesnake bites are dry bites and venom is not released. At the hospital, baseline coagulation labs will be drawn and the bite site monitored. If coags stay normal and the site stays normal, the person will be released within 24 hours. If there is evidence of venom injection,_ then_ the person will start receiving doses of antivenin. It can take a LOT of antivenin to treat someone. I remember a year when there was a national shortage. All the western states were borrowing from each other. Definitely NOT the year to get bit.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I bought snake boots for this very reason. Living in Texas snakes are a concern. This thread reminds however, I don't have a good snake bite kit or enough info on how to treat the bite. Another thing on the list. LOL

Thanks


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

RNPrepper,

If snakebit, would it be good to give a large dose of an anti-hystamine like Benydryl?


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Only a _very_ few eastern diamond backs here.

I have more issues with bees, wasps, and hornets. I have an epi-pen and benadryl.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> Only a _very_ few eastern diamond backs here.
> 
> I have more issues with bees, wasps, and hornets. I have an epi-pen and benadryl.


I have issues with wasps and hornets. Why exactly do they exist? I can deal with snakes, spiders, bees and scorpions. I hate wasps and hornets! LOL I kill them at every opportunity.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Slippy said:


> RNPrepper,
> 
> If snakebit, would it be good to give a large dose of an anti-hystamine like Benydryl?


The problem is not an allergic one, so Benadryl is not indicated. The problem is with hemolytic toxins and some with neurotoxins if a coral snake (VERY rare to get bit by one) or a Mohave rattler (has neuro toxins as well as hemolytic toxins.) I saw a cat one that had been bitten in the thigh. The entire leg looked like it had turned to blood colored jello from the hemolysis. (Cat died.) You are never supposed to cut the wound, suck the wound or do anything like that. Further tissue damage will result. The old snakebite kits with razor and suction cup are dangerous and not helpful. Toss 'em.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

Prepared One said:


> I have issues with wasps and hornets. Why exactly do they exist? I can deal with snakes, spiders, bees and scorpions. I hate wasps and hornets! LOL I kill them at every opportunity.


They also pollinate similar to bees....
Wasps | What Purpose do Wasps Serve


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Urinal Cake said:


> They also pollinate similar to bees....
> Wasps | What Purpose do Wasps Serve


Crap! I will keep killing them anyways. LOL


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> The problem is not an allergic one, so Benadryl is not indicated. The problem is with hemolytic toxins and some with neurotoxins if a coral snake (VERY rare to get bit by one) or a Mohave rattler (has neuro toxins as well as hemolytic toxins.) I saw a cat one that had been bitten in the thigh. The entire leg looked like it had turned to blood colored jello from the hemolysis. (Cat died.) You are never supposed to cut the wound, suck the wound or do anything like that. Further tissue damage will result. The old snakebite kits with razor and suction cup are dangerous and not helpful. Toss 'em.


RN, I have heard you should never cut the bite or try to suck the poison out like they do in the movies. So, what is the prescribed course of treatment? Does it depend on the venom or are there general rules to follow until you can get medical help? The better question would be what if there is no Medical help available? I am really ignorant on this issue in regards to treating the bite. The snakes I have come across I have manged to kill before they did any harm but a grid down situation will put people in proximity to these types of threats on a daily basis I imagine.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Sawyer Extractor is supposed to work on snake bites pretty good. I know it works on insect bites/stings.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

I'm much more worried about these Africanized bees than I am about snakes. We have more bee attacks here in AZ than snake bites. I've got a hive right now in a big saguaro cactus along our drive way, about 20 feet up. I cannot imagine the horror of having my animals attacked and covered with bees.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> RN, I have heard you should never cut the bite or try to suck the poison out like they do in the movies. So, what is the prescribed course of treatment? Does it depend on the venom or are there general rules to follow until you can get medical help? The better question would be what if there is no Medical help available? I am really ignorant on this issue in regards to treating the bite. The snakes I have come across I have manged to kill before they did any harm but a grid down situation will put people in proximity to these types of threats on a daily basis I imagine.


Read previous post about treatment. Be sure, however, that when SHTF and emergency services (source of antivenin) is unavailable, you will most likely sustain pretty bad damage from a hot bite. Losing a limb is not out of the question, or dying from gangrene. BTW, a good bite injects venom too deeply to be suctioned out.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

What about aspirin? Part of me says that a good sized dose could keep the swelling at bay, but another part of me says that aspirin thins the blood and could cause the poison to move.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

rule #1 get your azz to a emergency room pronto.
if you have allergies to bee's wasps ect get a damn eppi pen and keep it on you at all times period.
it the USA there is only one snake that can kill me if it bites me the coral snake 
any of the pit vipers very doubtful
I have been zapped by a copperhead, and a timber rattler neither killed me the copperhead did inject venom and yah I didn't feel so hot for a couple days the rattler did not 
get bit get to the hospital venom or no.
if for some reason there are no more hospitals it is going to be a waiting game and you'll have to do the best you can with out the proper anti venom there isn't much you can do -and the cut, suck ,spit is a fairy tail at the most you'll infect the bite more or wind up poisoning your self.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A constrictive bandage used to be the best "first aid" and keeping the patient calm and immobile. They had a syringe that had an open mouth for more suction but I have heard mixed answers as to whether or not that should be used. I know it can raise a blood blister on normal healthy skin and even pull blood through the skin.Aspirin is going to make hemolytic toxin do more damage and remember the swelling is from internal bleeding not from inflammation in most cases.

I would use a constrictive bandage, and use the syringe that I have immediately after the bite - trying to get as much of the toxin out that I could. Then remain as motionless as possible, while waiting for help. We do have rattle snakes so they could be a problem but I also know how to trap them using a 50 gallon barrel buried vertically in the ground with the bung open. Snakes can get in but they can't get out. In early spring you pour in a gallon of bleach and walk away.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Medic33 said:


> rule #1 get your azz to a emergency room pronto.
> I have been zapped by a copperhead, and a timber rattler neither killed me the copperhead did inject venom and yah I didn't feel so hot for a couple days the rattler did not
> get bit get to the hospital venom or no.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> The problem is not an allergic one, so Benadryl is not indicated. The problem is with hemolytic toxins and some with neurotoxins if a coral snake (VERY rare to get bit by one) or a Mohave rattler (has neuro toxins as well as hemolytic toxins.) I saw a cat one that had been bitten in the thigh. The entire leg looked like it had turned to blood colored jello from the hemolysis. (Cat died.) You are never supposed to cut the wound, suck the wound or do anything like that. Further tissue damage will result. The old snakebite kits with razor and suction cup are dangerous and not helpful. Toss 'em.


Good post RN. In fact you could do us all a fine service if you went back and rewrote that original post (UC where did you get that crap?)


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

I believe the reason for NOT using any kind of restrictive band is to avoid even further swelling and tissue injury, including a tourniquet effect that can result from increased swelling from what started out to be a simple restrictive band. That is for rattlesnake bites with hemolytic toxins.

Now that being said, snakes with neurotoxins, like coral snakes and the kind we had in the South Pacific, death adders, in particular, can be treated with a wide width constrictive band that keeps the neurotoxins from moving up the body. With death adders, a bitten villager would immediately wrap the area above the bite and then down the limb. The wrap would stay on until they could get to a hospital (possibly hours) and once the antitoxin was administered, the band would be unwrapped very slowly. In these cases, there is not the extreme tissue damage and swelling that there is with hemolytic toxins. The idea is to neutralize the neurotoxin before it reaches the diaphram.

But with rattlesnakes it's different. You really do not want to constrict the limb and you want to keep it at heart level which is the most neutral position. Keeping it higher will cause the toxin to go up the limb faster, but keeping it lower may cause even further pressure and tissue damage. I've heard of people giving their snake bit dogs both aspirin and Benadryl, but I don't understand the beneficial mechanism of either one in the case of a hemolytic toxin. I certainly would not do it for myself - I would get to the hospital ASAP.

The best bite treatment is to prevent bites in the first place. I've encountered many dozens of rattlers in AZ. They basically want to hide and avoid being seen or stepped on. They do not want to waste their venom on something they cannot eat. They are only going to bite when their feel their lives are threatened. So don't step on them! Carry a flashlight and don't wear sandals out at night. Don't get drunk and think you can play with a snake. (Nearly all hand and arm bites are in young drunk men.) Even then, large snakes will often bite defensively without injecting venom - they don't want to waste it. I've been out riding and hiking and have walked right past them under a bush or even stepped over them unknowingly. The ONLY ones that have threatened me are the ones I've had to kill because they were in the barn or backyard. At that point, they are literally fighting for their lives, because my intent is to kill them. In all my snake encounters, only a handful have ever actually rattled as a warning. Don't count on that.

My policy is to let them live and do their thing - killing rodents, for which I am very grateful. If they take up residence in an area where they could be dangerous to the family or equines, then they have to go, and I regretfully kill them. (Rattlers are territorial and will come back, even if you take them away from the yard. Taking them a few miles away is a slow death sentence as they are in other snake's territory and don't know the turf.) I would NEVER kill a snake that I encountered out in the wild, doing it's own thing in it's own habitat. It's not hurting me and it's doing a great service. In fact, there have been plague issues in communities that killed off the rattlers. Rodents and prairie dogs are notorious hosts for the fleas that carry the plague organism. Reestablishing rattler hibernation dens and snake populations keeps these rodents in check and protects the human population from a pretty nasty disease. We had a huge old rattler here several years ago that minded its own business and didn't threaten anyone. Even though it was on our property, it had lived long enough to know how to avoid humans and stay out of trouble. We never bothered that snake and didn't worry about it at all.

The most dangerous rattlers are the babies. They are virtually invisible, have no rattles, and will unload all their venom when they bite. (They don't have the experience to hold back and just give a dry bite. They are also so small that they are easily injured so they do everything they can to protect themselves.) The babies scare me, because where there is one, there are always more. We usually find them in October when they are active after the summer heat. I do kill those when they are around the house because they pose such a threat.

Snakes are beneficial, beautiful creatures that play a very important role in nature. We have seen 14 different species of snakes just on our 3.3 acre property here in Tucson. Like I said before, I've encountered a LOT of rattlers and have never been spontaneously threatened by one (unlike bees). Nor have I ever come close to being bit. You gotta keep your eyes open and watch where you step, especially in spring an fall when they are more active. Simple. They are to respected, but not feared. Fear makes you do crazy stuff like killing a snake just because it's a snake.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

thanks RN I too like the live and let live- 
fro those that live out on a farm an such 1 snake can wipe out the rodent population better than a whole team of cats.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> thanks RN I too like the live and let live-
> fro those that live out on a farm an such 1 snake can wipe out the rodent population better than a whole team of cats.


Rattlers hunt primarily at night when it is cooler. But amazingly, bull snakes (gopher snakes) will hunt in broad daylight. I've stood nearby and watched one go in and out of the holes of a packrat nest, hunting for those rodents. Also watched one go right into the nest hole of cottontails and pull out 3 baby rabbits, one at a time. Gulp, gulp, gulp. (Totally horrified some lady friends who were with me at the time.) But the bunnies were right outside the garden fence and the snake was saving my garden. 

We do our best to invite and keep bull snakes and king snakes around. Both eat rodents, and both will eat rattlers, too. We had a big old bull snake in our barn one summer. It just hung around and we actually could dangle dead mice and feed it from a stick. Then it left for a while and I was so happy to see it again, curled up against the wall. I talked to it all day and kept checking on it as I did chores. (It was curled up and I couldn't see head, tail, or even much of the pattern.) When my son came home he showed me that my friend was actually a rattler and not the bull snake! Oops! Point being, I didn't bother it, and it didn't bother me.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

pigs they will decimate snake population actually preform a search and eat on them.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

RNprepper said:


> Rattlers hunt primarily at night when it is cooler. But amazingly, bull snakes (gopher snakes) will hunt in broad daylight. I've stood nearby and watched one go in and out of the holes of a packrat nest, hunting for those rodents. Also watched one go right into the nest hole of cottontails and pull out 3 baby rabbits, one at a time. Gulp, gulp, gulp. (Totally horrified some lady friends who were with me at the time.) But the bunnies were right outside the garden fence and the snake was saving my garden.


I've seen huge coachwhips out in the open in the day time. Pretty ballsy.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

I did tree work back in collage and a buddy managed to get bitten twice by a copperhead (2 different occasions) picking up brush. Both times he went to the hospital, got IVs and stayed overnight before being sent home with a $500 bill. I was with him the 3rd time a copperhead got him. After slinging the snake off his hand he walked to the truck saying "I'm going home boys. No hospital for me this time. Got to get home before this makes me sick. Bring me Gatorade after work tonight" as he drove away.
By the time he got home 40 minutes later he said he could really feel it in his head and his lower arm was becoming swollen. By the next morning his upper arm was also badly swollen and you could see some swelling in his shoulder and almost into the chest and neck.
He was seriously ill for the next 30 hrs or so, vomiting and sweating, the whole nine yards. The 2nd day he was still sweating some but moving slowly around the place. Day 4 he returned to work but still a bit weak. We didn't have health insurance back then.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

FoolAmI said:


> I did tree work back in collage and a buddy managed to get bitten twice by a copperhead (2 different occasions) picking up brush. Both times he went to the hospital, got IVs and stayed overnight before being sent home with a $500 bill. I was with him the 3rd time a copperhead got him. After slinging the snake off his hand he walked to the truck saying "I'm going home boys. No hospital for me this time. Got to get home before this makes me sick. Bring me Gatorade after work tonight" as he drove away.
> By the time he got home 40 minutes later he said he could really feel it in his head and his lower arm was becoming swollen. By the next morning his upper arm was also badly swollen and you could see some swelling in his shoulder and almost into the chest and neck.
> He was seriously ill for the next 30 hrs or so, vomiting and sweating, the whole nine yards. The 2nd day he was still sweating some but moving slowly around the place. Day 4 he returned to work but still a bit weak. We didn't have health insurance back then.


By the third time he was probably developing some immunity. I know dogs that have been bitten multiple times. If they survive the first and second bites (with venom) they seem to have an easier go the next time. I know of two dogs that are completely immune now and go hunting for snakes with no fear. Although your friend survived, this is NOT something to try at home. Even if someone doesn't die, they may well lose their arm or leg.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

You can get your dog in a program here in AZ to train them to identify snakes and to be injected with very small amounts of venom to build a tolerance.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

GTGallop said:


> You can get your dog in a program here in AZ to train them to identify snakes and to be injected with very small amounts of venom to build a tolerance.


Yup, we took the lab to snake training twice. She still will go right up to a snake on the road. (Not the brightest bulb on the tree.) My son threw his ball cap at the little dogs whenever they approached a snake and now they are absolutely flee from any snake, dead or alive, including my pet corn snakes. They sure like to go after lizards, though. Hope they never find a Gila monster!


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> By the third time he was probably developing some immunity. I know dogs that have been bitten multiple times. If they survive the first and second bites (with venom) they seem to have an easier go the next time. I know of two dogs that are completely immune now and go hunting for snakes with no fear. Although your friend survived, this is NOT something to try at home. Even if someone doesn't die, they may well lose their arm or leg.


I had suspected that John was developing some immunity to copperheads. Thanks for confirming that thought.


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

My uncle (who at the time was in the early stages of Parkison's disease) thought he would be cool and keep a rattlesnake he found in a cage in his livingroom. He went to feed it a mouse and in nipped him, that spot on his hand turned purple and had a nasty sore on it forever. In fact by the time parkinson's got him the purple lump was still there.


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