# 4x4 Pickup suggestions?



## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Hey Folks,

This year, or next for sure, I'm trading up to a truck. Either way my research has begun in earnest. I'm 90% sure its going to be a Ford F150 with Toyota's Tundra as an outlier. That said, I didn't start this thread to brag on favorite brands, I'm more interested in features and functionality suggestions.

Requirements are 4WD and Crew Cab. Beyond that I'm debating XL v XLT modles and 2.7 v 3.5 EcoBoost motors. I've not had a pickup before but it seems like I can bolt on accessories over time. This will be my daily driver and daughter hauler, hence the need for four doors. On occasion it could also be the wife and dog along for weekend trips.

I'm not buying this to be the ultimate SHTF vehicle but I do want capabilities that exceed my Outback for life's "if's and when's."

Appreciate any thoughts you truck guys and gals share to enlighten and inform ultimate decision. I'm sure I don't know what I don't know applies to some aspects here. Thanks!


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I have owned many 4x4 vehicles. I presently drive a 2010 F-150 XLT crew cab 4x4. I have the larger V8 and it is a horse. It likes gas to, but if you want a dual purpose (daily driver and a hauler), ya gotta pay to play. I get 15 -16 mpg in town or highway.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

Get a RAM.... Get a Hemi


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

I drive the Toyota Tacoma double cab in 4x4. Plenty big for my uses around the farm & better (more economical) for my drive to work each day. Around 120,000 miles and never had a problem. If I occasionally need more space, IMO it is better to pull a trailer than have low gas mileage forever.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

whoppo said:


> Get a RAM.... Get a Hemi


Ha - never! Personally, I think Rams are the best looking trucks on the road but they get low marks for reliability and capability (Consumer Reports). My neighbor and one of his employees each have one and both tell me to run from Dodge trucks.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

Hemi45 said:


> Ha - never! Personally, I think Rams are the best looking trucks on the road but they get low marks for reliability and capability (Consumer Reports). My neighbor and one of his employees each have one and both tell me to run from Dodge trucks.


Really? Love my 2012 1500 Longhorn. Only problem I've ever had was a bad headlight wiring harness, which was replaced under warranty. I get 20MPG on the highway with Eco Mode and left my neighbor's kid in his Raptor with a beautiful view of my tail lights


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

There is a reason that Toyotas across the board hold their value better than others. I still get solicitations to buy my 2010 Corolla.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Friends don't let friends ride Rice!


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Lol, Toyota is as American made in many cases as Ford or others. I guess some prefer their Mexican made Fords? Quality and value are #1.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Pfffft! Jap Junk!


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

I have an F250 HD Crew cab 4X4 diesel. I get great mpg, but better yet it will probably pull my house off its foundation.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

RedLion said:


> Lol, Toyota is as American made in many cases as Ford or others. I guess some prefer their Mexican made Fords? Quality and value are #1.


This is true. My Subaru was built in Indiana.

Actually, its a damn shame Subaru doesn't make trucks because my Outback is one of the most capable, efficient and reliable cars on the road. Unless you need a truck its tough to beat their bang for the buck.


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## huntntrap (Feb 5, 2017)

Stay away from eco anything it is absolute garbage. Way to many moving parts where they don't need to be. Oil gets dirty and boom.

I have an 08 gmc 1500hd. It's a champ of a truck. Your going to find small issues with all brands imo

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I can't speak to 4x4 function, since my truck doesn't have it and my only 4x4 ever was an Isuzu Trooper. Pulled well, but we sold if after selling the boat.
My current truck is a 2012 F150 XLT with 4 full-sized doors and a 5.0 Coyote under the hood. She gets 17.1 average as my family's primary vehicle and my daily driver, so a mix of city and highway. I don't give much notice to MPG, but the dash shines the number in my face, so I know it.
Like you, I needed a daily driver for my 35 mile trip to work and as a better option for the family with my wife's car starting to wear out.
If I could change anything about it, it would be the bed length. With the 4 full-sized doors, the standard bed size loses some capacity. They do offer a full length bed version too, but it's huge, and tough to park most places. I am looking at adding a bed extender cage to remedy the length issue when needed. It is a truck, afterall, and I meant it to work like a truck. It needs to be able to carry me to work, the family to church, all of our gear to the campsite, and a trailer full of big boy toys to the family get-togethers, and all at the same time if I so choose. This truck can. Moving from a truck that only had the "suicide" doors to access the extended cab, I will NEVER go back to that design or anything less than 4 big doors. You will feel the same way.

I looked at the engine options, and after looking under the hood, the 5.0 was the only realistic option for me. The Ecoboost has the power(in raw numbers, it will out-pull my 5.0), and the economic driving, for sure. But, as a wise mechanic once said, you have to pick one. If you want the fuel economy, your horsepower will suck. If you floor it, rev those turbos, and get the horses going, goodbye gas. It does both, but never at the same time. Also, if you take a look at the engine, the Ecoboost is not intended to be messed with by the weekend mechanic. There are covers and panels installed to prevent direct access to most things. They prefer you take it to a shop. I would follow that advice if I was not completely comfortable with the inner workings. There is also the problem with carbon build up on the backs of the valves, due to the fuel being direct injected to the cylinder, and not across the valves themselves, as in previous models. Because of the recirculating system to re-burn un-burned hydrocarbons, they are passed back into the engine cylinder via the intake. Without that gasoline wash spraying over the backs of the intake valves, carbon build up can occur. Some smart folks have devised a way to prevent this by installing "catch cans" to gather that un-burned junk, and never send it back to the engine. This tweak can significantly reduce that problem. I don't know if this has yet been redesigned in the more recent models, but I know it was discussed as an improvement.

When it comes to the 5.0, anyone familiar with a standard V8 engine can do just about anything on it. It's smaller than the Ecoboost, allowing for easy access to just about any part of the engine, and it almost feels like it was meant to be tinkered with. That's why it is such a popular engine for kit car builders. They can "do stuff" to it a lot easier. The fact that it has no "red line" on the RPM gauge is another fun feature. It can sustain 7k RPM and not even break a sweat. Not that you'd need to in a truck, but it speaks to the durability of the engine.
Since I'm the kind of guy that changes his own spark plugs, oil, filters, water pump, thermostat, belts, coil packs, battery, radiator and fan, etc... I appreciate the ease of access and simple design I see in the 5.0.
Your experience may vary, and keep you from this model. That's perfectly fine. Just know what you're getting.

Pick the truck that works for your intended purpose, not one that other folks recommend.
If I had my druthers, I'd go with that Cummins Tundra with the Allison transmission. That thing is a beast. An expensive beast.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I have a 2007 GMC Sierra 1500 Crew Cab, 5.3 V-8, 4WD, with all the options available, except for sun roof. Off road package, towing package, locking rear axle, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Wife pulls a horse trailer, so hers is an 07 Chevy Silverado 2500 Heavy Duty, Crew Cab, 4WD, Duramax diesel, Allison transmission, heavy duty towing package (comes with built in trailer brake controller, etc). The trailer weighs almost 10,000 pounds without any horses, and driving the truck you don't even feel it back there.

I did look at Toyota Tundra when I was ready to buy, mainly for their optional I-Force V-8 with 385 HP and over 400 Ft Pounds of torque. But Toyota uses something called variable valve timing in order to improve gas mileage. I looked at a diagram of inside the front of the engine, and VVT uses a very complicated arrangement of timing chains (multiple chains), gears, pulleys, sensors, activators. As soon as I saw that, I saw a nightmare. I've been working on cars and trucks for 50 years and I personally would not have a VVT engine.

Ford trucks are OK, I've owned half a dozen, plus a number of Ford cars.

Dodge? Back in the 1960's we had a saying "You can work on a Mopar, but you can never fix it." Still true today. The people I personally know who have owned Dodge trucks got rid of them and vowed "never again".


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Screw all that fancy VVT and ecoboast BS. Just find a 2000 or older diesel and drive the fricken tires off it.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Chipper said:


> Screw all that fancy VVT and ecoboast BS. Just find a 2000 or older diesel and drive the fricken tires off it.


If it was an extra vehicle that would be great. In fact, in that case, I'd be looking at classics from the 1970's. Alas, as a daily driver, it needs to have all those state of the art safety features to keep our little one as protected as possible. Wife's orders and we all know ... 'happy wife, happy life'


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

One of the troubles of 25 and 30 year old trucks is the amount of time you spend either on your back underneath it, or leaning over into the engine bay.

I've paid my dues, and I'm at the stage I've had enough of wasted time.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

It’s tough to know your full situation/desire with a truck and there are many many options. Also depends on how long you want to own it and how frequently you buy new/used vehicles. 

Trucks are much better these days than in the old days although they were easier to work on back then. Now all the computer mumbo jumbo requires a computer degree or ME to work on them. If that doesn’t bother you then don’t worry about the VVT, computer, etc and get one that is comfortable, fits the need and has good reviews and reliability. 

Personally, I have a 2006 2500HD 6.6l Duramax with the Alison transmission. Big truck but comfortable and has given me 260k of reliability. I just now replaced some suspension parts and have replaced things that you’d suspect would wear out. I get 15mpg in the city and about 22+mpg on the highway. I’m now prettying it up some since I think I’ll get another 250K miles out of her. 

New... I’d be looking at the Silverado diesel or the Ford F150 diesel. Economy and pulling power combined plus all the creature comforts. If you are already looking at an F150 then the price range is not far off. Yeah, computer controlled to some degree and I hate the emissions crap but then again that’s on all trucks. 

Used, I’d look at either a Silverado 2500hd diesel or the F250 6.7. Both good full sized trucks. There are also some good used gas trucks as well.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> One of the troubles of 25 and 30 year old trucks is the amount of time you spend either on your back underneath it, or leaning over into the engine bay.
> 
> I've paid my dues, and I'm at the stage I've had enough of wasted time.


 I'm getting older and agree to a point. The newer stuff I can't work on and I'm not buying a computer scanner to work on the new crap. I prefer being able to work on my own stuff. Will your dealer be open to fix that fancy wiz bang truck once the SHTF??


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Son in law is dropping a 500 hp diesel in a 1968 us Army Jeep truck. Us Army HUMV wheels and tires. Last I saw frame is ready. Now that will be a fun truck.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Chipper said:


> I'm getting older and agree to a point. The newer stuff I can't work on and I'm not buying a computer scanner to work on the new crap. I prefer being able to work on my own stuff. Will your dealer be open to fix that fancy wiz bang truck once the SHTF??


I'm astounded that you're so good with your typewriter to get messages to post on here. Does the sound of your ticker-tape machine get annoying too?
:tango_face_grin:

The point of this thread is not a SHTF vehicle, so that's not a consideration that needs to be given. He needs a reliable vehicle for him and his family. A pre-2000 vehicle, unless extremely well kept, won't satisfy this need for very long, and will need significant work.

EDIT: Ask any mechanic if that internal computer you hook a scanner up to makes their job harder or easier. It's there for very good reason. Any system with a built in diagnostic system is always preferred over guessing and naval gazing.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

For me my Dream pick up truck would be a 1962-1969 Chevy or Ford With 4 wheel drive. A little improvement in ground clearance. An older 4 or 6 cyl diesel 4 speed. Setup with disk brakes. And the reason have nothing to do with SHTF I just would like a simple truck I would not care one bit if it got scratched of a dent in it.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

American Expedition Vehicles!

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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

AEV Chevrolet Colorado (soon to come)

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## modfan (Feb 18, 2016)

I have to say in the 270000 miles of hard driving my 2012 Ram 1500 has had it still runs like a top.



Hemi45 said:


> Ha - never! Personally, I think Rams are the best looking trucks on the road but they get low marks for reliability and capability (Consumer Reports). My neighbor and one of his employees each have one and both tell me to run from Dodge trucks.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

AAAAAH, for a work in the tire knife industry, I used to drive a; 2009 tundra crew cab, a ram 2500 Cummins and an S10 on random rotation bas d on the whims of the other company driver... they all were mostly reliable, the tundra was at 200k, the ram at 380k and the s10 at a shocking 211k when I left the company 4 years ago...
So, with fleet maintenance, most trucks will last a long while.. it comes down to what your willing to spend on upkeep.. 
I’m driving a golf now, but I wanted a Chevy 1500...😈


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

That F 150 is a very good truck . Especially if you are going to keep it a long time wait till spring and get the diesel engine if you can afford it. The truck boxes are now aluminum on a steel frame with the diesel you should be able to run it for 20 years. 

XL trim level , short bed 5 1/2, 4x4 , (diesel engine), set up for towing . I like everything but the price at 40K with a gas engine I would think diesel engine going to add 2 to 3 K to that . 

This truck with a camper or boat will be a lot of fun for your family. Pull a bumper camper and carry bikes or kayaks in the truck. I put a ladder rack on my truck that works well for a canoe. Front hitch and put a bike rack on it if you need that much room. 

For likely things- earth quakes, tornado, wild fires, floods this truck is very capable. EMP - NO but then just about everything else is going to be in the same situation.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Before I retired the company I worked for had a lot of working pick up trucks. So not to offend anyone we had, Chevy, Ford and Dodge.
This is what I saw.
Chevy went to the shop a lot but was back on the job quickly. Lot of annoying little stuff
Ford rarely went to the shop , but when it did it was there awhile, seemed like it was a waiting for parts thing.
The Dodges spent most of their life in the shop. Pick a part it was broke.

The people that drove the trucks like the ride of the Chevy's loved the brakes
The Ford drivers filed back injury claims hated the brakes
The Dodge drivers just wanted something else

When we sent them to retirement:
At auction the Fords brought the most cash by a long shot
The Chevy's always sold but cheaper 
Dodges went to scrap.

I am not joking when a person was told to drop their truck off clear out they were getting a new one, and they found out the were getting a Dodge two things happened . They ask to keep the old one and ask who did I piss off.


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## Redwood Country (May 22, 2017)

Personal Opinion: If you are going to get a 4x4 and you have never had one before consider getting a modified bumper with a tow winch. In my humble opinion 4x4's get you into trouble, tow winches get you out.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

******* said:


> I drive the Toyota Tacoma double cab in 4x4. Plenty big for my uses around the farm & better (more economical) for my drive to work each day. Around 120,000 miles and never had a problem. If I occasionally need more space, IMO it is better to pull a trailer than have low gas mileage forever.


OK, I suppose Toyota might make a decent truck ..... but Ima Texan, I gotta reputation to maintain, huh?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

A Watchman said:


> OK, I suppose Toyota might make a decent truck ..... but Ima Texan, I gotta reputation to maintain, huh?


(PSSST @A Watchman, isn't the Tacoma MADE in Texas? :vs_smirk: 20 Years of the Toyota Tacoma and Beyond: A Look Through the Years)


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Slippy said:


> (PSSST @A Watchman, isn't the Tacoma MADE in Texas? :vs_smirk: 20 Years of the Toyota Tacoma and Beyond: A Look Through the Years)


Maybe, but it sure don't look or smell Texan!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Redwood Country said:


> Personal Opinion: If you are going to get a 4x4 and you have never had one before consider getting a modified bumper with a tow winch. In my humble opinion _*4x4's get you into trouble, tow winches get you out.*_


Truer words have not been spoken...:vs_clap:


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

A Watchman said:


> Maybe, but it sure done look or smell Texan!


Son1 and Son2 both are Native Texans and throughout most of their lives SMELL was not their finest attributes!

This, I shit you not! :vs_laugh:


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## modfan (Feb 18, 2016)

Lets talk Ford vs. Dodge. I've never had a Chevy other than an Impala so I don't really have an opinion. 
1993 F-150 351W loved this truck only problem plugged fuel filter at around 100k miles. Pulled a 3500# race car twice a week for 3 years.
2000 F150 4.3L Pulled a 3500# race car for 4 years traded in at 175000miles. Replaced rear differential, fuel injectors twice, in tank fuel pump.
2008 F-150 5.3L no trailer pulling. Drove between Lubbock and Oklahoma City several times. Trans went out at 60,000 miles.
2012 Ram 1500 5.7L hemi Pulled a 5000#trailer between Oklahoma City and Texas/New Mexico once a week for 3 years. Replace Axle bearing at 180000 miles. 
Still driving the Dodge at 275000 miles avg 16-17 miles to the Gal empty, 14 loaded. 2 miles to the gallon better then my nephews 2012 Ecoboost loaded.

Needless to say, I was a diehard Ford person and if I could have got a salesman to talk to me at the local dealership I still would be.

On a side note DON'T ever buy a new model engine or transmission of any make. If you want the new Ford F150 with the diesel engine wait for it to be out for at least a year and half. You don't want to be a test subject.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Very good point on the winch.

For those with the desire to have something made in America you got to look way past the brand name. On a sold in the US vehicle the sticker will tell you what percentage of american made parts and the assembly plant .

You cannot go by a brand name. Car brands are international they make parts in a lot of different countries and assemble them in many others. No such thing as an American car company all international . Best you can do is try and get a vehicle regardless of brand name assembled in the US with as much US parts as you can. From what I see the F 150 is assembled in 3 plants 2 in Michigan and 1 in Kansas city.

I bought a Volkswagon in South Korea that was assembled in Ohio back it the mid 80's . Bought an India branded tractor, Mehendra that was made in South Korea in the US. Salesman is busy talking about India when I tell him I toured the plant - data plates on the tractor clearly say made in Korea. Loved a Ford I had in Germany was able to buy the same model in South Korea nice sedan but not able to import either from Germany or Korea and never sold in the US .

link to ford plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_factories#Current_production_facilities


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Yes, and may God bless all Ford truck owners.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Hemi45 said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> This year, or next for sure, I'm trading up to a truck. Either way my research has begun in earnest. I'm 90% sure its going to be a Ford F150 with Toyota's Tundra as an outlier. That said, I didn't start this thread to brag on favorite brands, I'm more interested in features and functionality suggestions.
> 
> ...


I dont hate Fords quite as bad as Chevys but am the proud possessor for a Toyoter Tundra 2 wheel drive. Quality control totally outstanding. Its closer to 3/4 ton..or heavy half. Tough as a boot. Cruises in style. 10k towing capacity etc. Little big to get in tight places in town. Best of Fortunes.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Hey now if you are serious about toting a load..all the genteel farmers in this area recommend the one ton Dodges with some kinda Cummings Turbo diesels. Dont make me come down there. Thanks. Four wheel drives are double the drive Shafts etc. Are you sure you want one? They drive the farmers in Wilbarger County crazy cause they get sand in the Shchlitz etc.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Checking back in ... I went with the F150. Having driven both, Toyota made the contest closer than I thought it would be but the fuel savings of the 2.7 Ecoboost vs the Tundra's 5.7 V8 was tough to ignore. Also, Ford was more aggressive with discounts at the bargaining table. I think I got a good truck and I know I got a great deal on it.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Hemi45 said:


> Checking back in ... I went with the F150. Having driven both, Toyota made the contest closer than I thought it would be but the fuel savings of the 2.7 Ecoboost vs the Tundra's 5.7 V8 was tough to ignore. Also, Ford was more aggressive with discounts at the bargaining table. I think I got a good truck and I know I got a great deal on it.


Yep, with Ford get a salesman and dealership that will work Ford's incentives.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

I bought a new Tundra 4x4 limited in 2014
Made in San Antonio, engines made in Alabama

I bought it for the towing (best in 1/2 ton), the ride ( it is a sweet ride), and the longevity.
I did not buy it for fuel mileage, but for towing my 26ft TT.

This is an awesome truck!


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

tango said:


> I bought a new Tundra 4x4 limited in 2014
> Made in San Antonio, engines made in Alabama
> 
> I bought it for the towing (best in 1/2 ton), the ride ( it is a sweet ride), and the longevity.
> ...


I liked the Tundra very well. If I owned a gas station I'd have been all over one with the 38 gallon fuel tank! Great rig and though many malign it's "dated" body, I think it's sharp.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

We love Jap cars and German guns.


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