# Where are Preppers on 9/11 Truth?



## voodoo

Really curious as to how the prepper movement in general stands on 9/11 truth. It would seem that of all people, preppers understand that the government or parts of it are perfectly capable of inducing mass disaster like economic collapse, that's part of why we became preppers. So why not 9/11 to fulfill a political agenda (get us into Middle East wars?) The preppers I talk to are aware and awake and have no problem talking about 9/11, in fact maybe realizing the depth of the corruption involved in 9/11 was one reason I became a prepper.

If these people can do that they can do anything.

PS Preppers and truthers should get to know each other, they will be two of the first groups of people to get rounded up if fascism comes down, imagine a lot of overlap. Comment like either "inside job 100%" or "NIST explained it" could suffice.

*How to Convince Someone of 9/11 Truth*


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## James m

Unfortunately even if the government were involved, the gov is "too big to fail" so to speak. Out gov can't ev6talk about intel they may or may not have had before 9/11. But lets talk about why Bill was too busy getting BJ's to deal with Osama then in the 90's. Osama has been on main stream media for decades.


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## voodoo

James m said:


> Unfortunately even if the government were involved, the gov is "too big to fail" so to speak. Out gov can't ev6talk about intel they may or may not have had before 9/11. But lets talk about why Bill was too busy getting BJ's to deal with Osama then in the 90's. Osama has been on main stream media for decades.


I remember Bubba telling Chris Wallace that he couldn't get a "certification" from the legal department to hit Osama when they knew where he was. lol like he would need that.


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## James m

But i think you'll get hit by a lot of negative comments here. Same with sandy hook.


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## Mancelona Man

The animals responsible for 9/11 were Osama and his crew. The animals were kept under control until a Muslim was voted into the WH.


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## Will2

prepping isn't really a movement it is a hobby. there is no political action behind it other than being able to survive threats to human life.

you are using "movement" as "political movement" in social sciences would be 

I can say quite clearly prepping is not a movement, it is far more cell based and it is about surviving disasters and other disorders.

the red cross is more of a political movement than prepping and that is saying a lot because the red cross is non-political.


There are networks such as SAFE etc.. however these groups are not "political" they don't have political rallies, they teach survival skills, they offer advice on how to surivive natural disasters, and how to protect yourself, etc... 

movement is an awfully bad term to use and seems intent on turning prepping into an ideology that isn't applicable at all, as there is no political identity behind all preppers. 

There are political preppers but one does not need to be politically motivated to be one.


Would you call the red cross "a movement"


hey are you part of the red cross movement?

seems like a poison pill post.

truther movement was seen as a bunch of crazies by the govstream then this person comes on and uses the term prepper movement.

I have my suspicions about this post and what it means.

I could be misreading.

but I've seen police use these same tactics to turn peoples activities into lumpsum ideoligical habits. 

meaning they can turn your association with an activity into a far wider ranger of behaviours that you in fact don't have.

prepping isn't a movement, it is an activity and it ain't political it is needs based.


preppers come from all political stripes.


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## voodoo

Will2 said:


> prepping isn't really a movement it is a hobby. there is no political action behind it other than being able to survive threats to human life.
> 
> you are using "movement" as "political movement" in social sciences would be
> 
> I can say quite clearly prepping is not a movement, it is far more cell based and it is about surviving disasters and other disorders.
> 
> the red cross is more of a political movement than prepping and that is saying a lot because the red cross is non-political.


well I guess if a lot more people are takiing up a hobby they start to call it a "movement." Either way people being more responsible is a good thing so I won't have to shoot them off my front lawn if they come after my food.


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## Will2

thats a dangerous apprehension and your opening posts is part of the reason for that.


you need to sleep sometime.

there are things that make putting people to sleep easier too, or what are you going to do when your house catches on fire? stay in there?

its a long bet but a gun doesn't make you god.

get over that.

there are lots of weaknesses plus you don't know if they are armed, overall defender generally will loose. learn the rules of tactical combat otherwise you fail and you clearly don't know those rules judging by your reply.


its all good but 

I don't hear people say the :ham radio movement:

or

:the chevy movement:

etc.. 

its like trying to brand something, once it is branded that is when it becomes politically branded. it ceases to be its foundation and is turned into a commercialized tool.

tools that malicious government use to brand people and make innocent people into suspects and enemies of state.

it ain't cool.

this is why politics is seperate from prepping.

sure there are people with political values many people share


lots of preppers support the constitution of the us particularly gun rights and free speech but so do tons of non prepping americans.


canadian preppers are within the spehere of their gun laws, while jealous of american gun laws respect their local laws.

english preppers tend to have bows or no weapons at all.

prepping is a global activity that has been going on since atleast WWII and was spurred by the cold war.


thinking this movement just appeared 5 years ago is nonsense.

hopefully you can get your facts straight and not aid bad people to attack good people or force more people underground for an innocent passtime with beneficial outcomes, preparedness.

much like the scouts and redcross these are just a way of saying what one does to prepare for surivival.


there is no political absolutes in prepping it is not a movement there is no agenda with government on the contrary in general it is not to depend on government but rather on being prepared on your own, although not always.


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## voodoo

James m said:


> But i think you'll get hit by a lot of negative comments here. Same with sandy hook.


I think the evidence in 9/11 is far more overwhelming than SH. In Sandy Hook I really don't know what happened, sure is interesting that for this "crime scene" there is not a speck of blood on the walls, all that pristine white paper and whote boards. But that proves nothing. All I really know about SH is they seemed all ready to go with a gun grab with 100 page laws all ready to put on the books.









9/11 is just simple physics:


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## voodoo

Will2 said:


> thats a dangerous apprehension and your opening posts is part of the reason for that.
> 
> you need to sleep sometime.
> 
> there are things that make putting people to sleep easier too, or what are you going to do when your house catches on fire? stay in there?
> 
> its a long bet but a gun doesn't make you god.
> 
> get over that.
> 
> there are lots of weaknesses plus you don't know if they are armed, overall defender generally will loose. learn the rules of tactical combat otherwise you fail and you clearly don't know those rules judging by your reply.
> 
> its all good but
> 
> I don't hear people say the :ham radio movement:
> 
> or
> 
> :the chevy movement:
> 
> etc..
> 
> its like trying to brand something, once it is branded that is when it becomes politically branded. it ceases to be its foundation and is turned into a commercialized tool.
> 
> tools that malicious government use to brand people and make innocent people in suspects and enemies of state.
> 
> it ain't cool.
> 
> this is why politics is seperate from prepping.
> 
> sure there are people with political values many people share
> 
> lots of preppers support the constitution of the us particularly gun rights and free speech but so do tons of non prepping americans.
> 
> canadian preppers are within the spehere of their gun laws, while jealous of american gun laws respect their local laws.
> 
> english preppers tend to have bows or no weapons at all.
> 
> prepping is a global activity that has been going on since atleast WWII and was spurred by the cold war.
> 
> thinking this movement just appeared 5 years ago is nonsense.
> 
> hopefully you can get your facts straight and not aid bad people to attack good people or force more people underground for an innocent passtime with beneficial outcomes, preparedness.
> 
> much like the scouts and redcross these are just a way of saying what one does to prepare for surivival.


Well maybe not my front lawn. But if someone is coming in my window armed or kicking down my front door I don't have much choice.


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## pakrat

voodoo said:


> they start to call it a "movement."


I'm not sure who "they" are, but I'm a private individual that chooses to make disaster preparations. I'm not a member of any group, movement or political advocacy. Each of us holds their own perspective on social, political and economic specifics and, while we may discuss issues, there's no "Prepper Consensus" on any of it.

I have suspicions regarding the intent of this thread and am not comfortable with it's implications.


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## Will2

> Well maybe not my front lawn. But if someone is coming in my window armed or kicking down my front door I don't have much choice.


yeah goodluck being armed when that happens.

none the less this conspiracy stuff shouldn't be in general talk it should be in the conspiracy subforum.

hey its whatever your local law is in terms of legal rights right. some states and localities are castle doctrine. hopefully yours is if that is your position. otherwise that is a dangerous position, as a home invasion may or may not be life threatening. if you know they are armed and will kill you more power to you but hopefully you realize that it would be safer to not be at the point of entry. but rather behind a door or some other barrier so that you can't be shot as easily, but can still fire on them if needed.

hopefully you are training for that if you think that is your threat, why not reinforce your doors and windows?

people on an assault entry if not flashbanging or other diversion if a group will enter from multiple points, may have body armour, and may have semi or full auto weapons. you will be outguned on any tactical entry.

people that arn't stupid will have done covert surviellance prior.

there could be some stupid theives but most likely the non organized ones may not be armed but if they are you don't want to be there to shoot them because they will be there to shoot you if they are armed, you want to be where you can shoot them and they can't shoot you.

also if this is life and death supply situation then you might want to hide and shoot them when they try to leave. or be ready if they poke their head under the bed.

you could also try not to be lethal and shoot them in the legs etc.. as they leave the scene. if you attempt an arrest and they don't comply as armed felons. eg. with their backs to you perform a citizens arrest if they turn around after being told not to, shoot but do so from cover from a tactical position.

outright confrontation is there.

while you may not be prepared for an assualt, the assualters will likely have the advantage if they ambushed you. but its your call to be armed, if you arn't a quick draw you are probably too slow.

most non stupid people would make their hit at night before sunrise, like 4 or 5am. I know here I think it is illegal for police to do night time raids. Criminals however can strike at any time.

this is secondary to the topic though, and I think that topic should be posted in another forum being the conspiracy forum.


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## Real Old Man

voodoo said:


> Really curious as to how the prepper movement in general stands on 9/11 truth. It would seem that of all people, preppers understand that the government or parts of it are perfectly capable of inducing mass disaster like economic collapse, that's part of why we became preppers. So why not 9/11 to fulfill a political agenda (get us into Middle East wars?) The preppers I talk to are aware and awake and have no problem talking about 9/11, in fact maybe realizing the depth of the corruption involved in 9/11 was one reason I became a prepper.
> 
> If these people can do that they can do anything.
> 
> PS Preppers and truthers should get to know each other, they will be two of the first groups of people to get rounded up if fascism comes down, imagine a lot of overlap. Comment like either "inside job 100%" or "NIST explained it" could suffice.
> 
> *How to Convince Someone of 9/11 Truth*


First I'ts doubtful if you have any idea of what you are talking about. I spoke with two eyewitnesses - not some jackass with a bull exrcrement you tube video- one who actually witnessed the plane plow into the pentagon. The other was part of the evidence collection team. No there was no Government Conspiracy. Government inepitude due to a stupid justice department concept of not sharing terrorist information with the folks that protect the nation from invasions and attacks.


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## SDF880

For me 2 things -

1, I was in the air that day! I made it to where I was going but was the last one off a 50 seat RJ and heard the captain almost yelling at the F/O to call dispatch and find out WTF is going on! Even tho I was a long way
away I can't stand to think I was in the air the same time the muzzies who took over those planes were too!

2, I have friends at United and American main operations centers and cannot imagine what it must have been like to be there on duty and see all this unfold! I work with a guy who lost his parents on AA77 the 757 that hit the Pentagon! Working at an airline operation myself I think about this everyday and my blood still boils! I'll never forget....ever!!!!

I prep fro a bunch of reasons and 9/11 does play into it! I went to the store late that afternoon and main staples were gone (milk, eggs, meats, etc) 
I have lived thru a bad tornado and a cat1 hurricane and those events helped point me in the prep direction as I got older.


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## Oddcaliber

The survivalist/ prepper " movement" goes back to the 1950's when Russia was still communist. Atomic bombs were the biggest threat than. Throughout the 60's and 70's we were labeled survivalist. The fall of the Soviet Union in the late 80's we again were labeled prepper. The times change,the name changed but the core of what we peppers do has not changed. Be it 9/11 or our own government I prep not as a hobby but as a way of life. I strongly suggest you study some history and you might learn something.


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## voodoo

Real Old Man said:


> First I'ts doubtful if you have any idea of what you are talking about. I spoke with two eyewitnesses - not some jackass with a bull exrcrement you tube video- one who actually witnessed the plane plow into the pentagon. The other was part of the evidence collection team. No there was no Government Conspiracy. Government inepitude due to a stupid justice department concept of not sharing terrorist information with the folks that protect the nation from invasions and attacks.


What does witnessing a plane crashing into the Pentagon have to do with the laws of gravity? No one said an aircraft didn't crash into the Pentagon. That was quite a flying job by a guy who couldn't land a Cessna, though.


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## Hemi45

If you can't say something nice about someone, then keep your trap shut. Therefore, all I have to add is; Happy New Year ... you crazy mo-fo!!!


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## voodoo

Hemi45 said:


> If you can't say something nice about someone, then keep your trap shut. Therefore, all I have to add is; Happy New Year ... you crazy mo-fo!!!


Never try to answer the argument because it will be shown that you have no answer. Simply resort to name calling.


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## I'd_last_a_day

Will2 said:


> none the less this conspiracy stuff shouldn't be in general talk it should be in the conspiracy subforum.
> 
> ...this is secondary to the topic though, and I think that topic should be posted in another forum being the conspiracy forum.


'Conspiracy Theory' is the adult version of the phrase 'Simon Says.'  It doesn't matter how credible or non-credible a claim is, once you claim something that goes against an official government explanation "Simon says you are a Conspiracy Theorist." It matters not what your points are. And the hypnotic state of this phrase is so powerful that people live in a state of self contradiction...ask 100 people if politicians are liars, they all answer yes. Ask the same 100 people if the government is made up of politicians, they all answer yes. Tell the same 100 people an alternative explanation for any government explanation and almost all will say 'Oh you're a conspiracy theorist!'

Now it's ok if your points suck but the crazy thing is that they will react like that before you can even make a point. So OP is basically asking a gravity question...the replies he gets is "(Simon Says) Hey Conspiracy Theorist you have your own section down below!"

Here's a definition...Conspiracy Theorist - A person who accuses confirmed pathological liars of lying.

I wish there was a way to figure out how to take this hypnotic power over to the poker table...create a table full of opponents who believe that pocket pairs are the best starting hands, yet they also believe that you're a conspiracy theorist if you believe that pocket pairs are the best starting hands.


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## Viper

voodoo said:


> *Really curious as to how the prepper movement in general stands on 9/11 truth.* It would seem that of all people, preppers understand that the government or parts of it are perfectly capable of inducing mass disaster like economic collapse, that's part of why we became preppers. So why not 9/11 to fulfill a political agenda (get us into Middle East wars?) The preppers I talk to are aware and awake and have no problem talking about 9/11, in fact maybe realizing the depth of the corruption involved in 9/11 was one reason I became a prepper.


Speaking of truth...I don't think you posted this because you are " Really curious as to how the prepper movement in general stands on 9/11 truth ". I think your here to push YOUR view as to what happened. Perhaps if you would have started your post "here's what I think happened with the twin towers on 9/11", you would have had better responses to this thread. Then you can push your view.

BTW, I think their are too many morons in DC that would have had to be involved that have proven unable to keep their yaps shut about other intelligence matters for this to have been a "false flag operation". Somebody would have talked.


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## voodoo

Viper said:


> Speaking of truth...I don't think you posted this because you are " Really curious as to how the prepper movement in general stands on 9/11 truth ". I think your here to push YOUR view as to what happened. Perhaps if you would have started your post "here's what I think happened with the twin towers on 9/11", you would have had better responses to this thread. Then you can push your view.
> 
> BTW, I think their are too many morons in DC that would have had to be involved that have proven unable to keep their yaps shut about other intelligence matters for this to have been a "false flag operation". Somebody would have talked.


I don't think it takes much to guess where I stand and I really AM curious. I was just thinking if you are a prepper you are likely to be a truther. Could be wrong.

The "someone would have talked" argument is neither here nor there. Either the official story is physically possible or it's not. I say it's not. You can take your pick of evidence. Four hijacked planes fly around unmolested by a single fighter interceptor for an hour and a half? F-16s are on an off-course airliner in 10 to 15 minutes. But the free fall speed argument is the biggest bust.


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## A Watchman

I'll just say....interesting, very interesting indeed.


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## I'd_last_a_day

Viper said:


> BTW, I think their are too many morons in DC that would have had to be involved that have proven unable to keep their yaps shut about other intelligence matters for this to have been a "false flag operation". Somebody would have talked.


I like this argument, i really love debates, about anything! What I don't like about people using the 'Conspiracy Theory' rebuttal is that it squashes debates. There are general claims/explanations and there are specific claims/explanations. What I don't like are general replies to 'Specific' questions! This is the epitome of what politicians do they are snakes they give general replies to specific questions. If someone says "The government is totally corrupt they were behind 911" then your post is an ok reply because it is a general reply against a general statement. But too often a 'Truther' with ask a 'Specific' question, and merely calling him a conspiracy theorist is a 'General' reply. The best thing that i've heard a few of these Truthers say is that they aren't so much freaked out that they know they are right but rather they are more freaked out that they get scolded for 'Just asking the question!' THAT is straight up mass hypnotism, to train society to resent a question rather than have a society that resents an 'illogical' question (and than refutes it!). That's the part that bothers me.


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## sideKahr

Whenever someone brings up 9-11, I just quietly ask, "Explain Building 7?" If they understand, they'll just nod. It's the crux of the conspiracy argument.


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## dwight55

Personal opinion: anyone who thinks the US government, . . . and / or president, . . . etc. knew about, was part of, intended for it to happen, participated in, or was any other way partially or wholly responsible for 9/11, . . . you're a kook, demented, silly, and haven't got brains enough to qualify you for a greeter position at a defunct Walmart store.

Now, . . . I've said my piece.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Targetshooter

I am not touching this one , I will get band if I say anything .


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## Slippy

sideKahr said:


> Whenever someone brings up 9-11, I just quietly ask, "Explain Building 7?" If they understand, they'll just nod. It's the crux of the conspiracy argument.


Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - World Trade Center 7, Building 7


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## Maine-Marine

sideKahr said:


> Whenever someone brings up 9-11, I just quietly ask, "Explain Building 7?" If they understand, they'll just nod. It's the crux of the conspiracy argument.


Footage that kills the conspiracy theories: Rare footage shows WTC 7 consumed by fire | Daily Mail Online


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## Maine-Marine

I hear people say that building steel can not be melted by the burning jet fuel.... Of course this is a misleading argument... The steel did not melt it was weakened..


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## SGG

My dad was a fireman for decades. On the morning of 9/11, as we watched, he told me without a doubt, that the first World Trade Center building was going to collapse, well before it actually did. He understood why. I've never given any credit or wasted any thought about this being a conspiracy, besides watching some videos and hearing some arguments. Personally I think it was a legitimate concern, but at this point, you gotta be a little bit crazy to think that these were rigged with explosives


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## Pir8fan

voodoo said:


> I remember Bubba telling Chris Wallace that he couldn't get a "certification" from the legal department to hit Osama when they knew where he was. lol like he would need that.


The Saudi's served Bin Laden up on a platter and Bubba turned that down too.


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## dwight55

There are times you "do" and times you "don't".

Having the bad guy in the sights, . . . and 99% sure, . . . sometimes just ain't enough to justify pulling the trigger. Ya gotta know, . . . and know you know.

Anyone who has been in country, . . . boots on the ground, . . . understands this.

Monday morning quarterbacks, . . . chair ninjas, . . . and those who got their SEAL tridents from the Cheerio's box, . . . never will. And I put the conspiracy theorists ALL in that same bunch, . . . 

May God bless,
Dwight


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## bigwheel

voodoo said:


> Really curious as to how the prepper movement in general stands on 9/11 truth. It would seem that of all people, preppers understand that the government or parts of it are perfectly capable of inducing mass disaster like economic collapse, that's part of why we became preppers. So why not 9/11 to fulfill a political agenda (get us into Middle East wars?) The preppers I talk to are aware and awake and have no problem talking about 9/11, in fact maybe realizing the depth of the corruption involved in 9/11 was one reason I became a prepper.
> 
> If these people can do that they can do anything.
> 
> PS Preppers and truthers should get to know each other, they will be two of the first groups of people to get rounded up if fascism comes down, imagine a lot of overlap. Comment like either "inside job 100%" or "NIST explained it" could suffice.
> 
> *How to Convince Someone of 9/11 Truth*


The Truther thing sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. I have Okie kin who live near Missouri...so somebody will have to show me. I also dont think Sandy Hook was a hoax. Where can you hide that many folks if they are really alive? I have a pal you need to be pals with.


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## AquaHull

I'd_last_a_day said:


> 'Conspiracy Theory' is the adult version of the phrase 'Simon Says.' It doesn't matter how credible or non-credible a claim is, once you claim something that goes against an official government explanation "Simon says you are a Conspiracy Theorist." It matters not what your points are. And the hypnotic state of this phrase is so powerful that people live in a state of self contradiction...ask 100 people if politicians are liars, they all answer yes. Ask the same 100 people if the government is made up of politicians, they all answer yes. Tell the same 100 people an alternative explanation for any government explanation and almost all will say 'Oh you're a conspiracy theorist!'
> 
> Now it's ok if your points suck but the crazy thing is that they will react like that before you can even make a point. So OP is basically asking a gravity question...the replies he gets is "(Simon Says) Hey Conspiracy Theorist you have your own section down below!"
> 
> Here's a definition...Conspiracy Theorist - A person who accuses confirmed pathological liars of lying.
> 
> I wish there was a way to figure out how to take this hypnotic power over to the poker table...create a table full of opponents who believe that pocket pairs are the best starting hands, yet they also believe that you're a conspiracy theorist if you believe that pocket pairs are the best starting hands.


It's like asking people what days are the weekend. They will 99.99 % of the time say Saturday & Sunday

Then tell them to actually look at a calendar. Sunday is the first day of the week,yet they will still argue.


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## rice paddy daddy

I have a "conspiracy theory". 
It has to do with newcomers who post stuff like the OP in their first few days of membership. Trolling for a bite, perhaps?


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## csi-tech

"chomp"


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## voodoo

SGG said:


> My dad was a fireman for decades. On the morning of 9/11, as we watched, he told me without a doubt, that the first World Trade Center building was going to collapse, well before it actually did. He understood why. I've never given any credit or wasted any thought about this being a conspiracy, besides watching some videos and hearing some arguments. Personally I think it was a legitimate concern, but at this point, you gotta be a little bit crazy to think that these were rigged with explosives


Then maybe he should have called NYC and told them he knew something that they didn't. I guess he knew better than all the firefighters who were still in the buildings, who could see it and hear it from the inside, and said they had the few fires under control. Like Battalion Chief Orio Palmer, who you can hear in audio saying that they can "knock down" the 78th floor fire in the South Tower with 2 hoses. Seven minutes before the demolition, Battalion Chief Palmer says:



> "Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines." New York Times Fire Department Tape Reveals No Awareness of Imminent Doom


The 78th floor was the crash zone, where the worst of the fires were. The rest of the building was fine. Suddenly the building starts blowing out sideways and pulverizing to dust. Amazing what people will believe.


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## voodoo

Maine-Marine said:


> I hear people say that building steel can not be melted by the burning jet fuel.... Of course this is a misleading argument... The steel did not melt it was weakened..


You are getting to the key point. If the steel was only weakened, it couldn't have come down at free-fall acceleration, because even weakened, that is much more resistance than thin air. Free fall acceleration can only happen through thin air, and 96,000 tons of frame, especially the 47 vertical core beams going from bottom to top, cross-braced all up and down, are not thin air.

The official story says, "yea, but it got heavier and heavier so it went faster and faster." But that is what Galileo disproved. Something has to be ALREADY in all pieces to fall through thin air at free fall acceleration.

You get slow, partial collapses in fires all the time, a wall, a floor truss, but what is beneath that always stops it. Gone from top to bottom in 14 seconds because of a jet hit and some small fires? Physically impossible.


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## A Watchman

I have studied this for years from an engineering perspective and looking from all potential sides....... none the less, I declare Slippy the winner *so far *based on having the longest post. Final awards to be presented at a later date.

PS

I did not "reply with a quote", so as to not make me the winner. That is a recognition I will not pursue.


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## I'd_last_a_day

A Watchman said:


> I have studied this for years from an engineering perspective and looking from all potential sides....... none the less, I declare Slippy the winner *so far *based on having the longest post. Final awards to be presented at a later date.





Slippy said:


> Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - World Trade Center 7, Building 7


How many people in here saw 12 Angry Men? The 2nd to last juror who changed his guilty plee...he said "The woman saw him do it, that to me is immovable evidence!" My 911 version of immovable evidence is the fact that the BBC reported that 'Building #7 has now also collapsed' BEFORE it collapsed. Not sure how high or low each person's 'Bullsh1t tolerance' is in here but that steps over the line for me. I'm the 11th juror, if you want me to change my vote please explain away that colossal problem!


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## dwight55

For all these butt-wipe theorists who believe it was anything BUT islamic terrorism:

Where are the thousands or at least hundreds of people involved who made this happen??? 

Where was the building security that allowed them to plant the explosives?

Where are the sellers of the explosives, . . . timers, . . . ??

Where are the people who planted the stuff??

C'mon, . . . get a grip, . . . in less than a week, we knew just about all there was to know about all the islamic nutjobs in the planes, . . . including where they spent their last nights on earth, . . . and probably a list of the drinks they had and the porno movies they watched.

Do you honestly believe that in the ensuing years since 9/11, . . . not one of the hundreds of perpetrators in would have taken has chosen to share his/her "secret" with a lover, a wife, a husband, or threaten an enemy with the same??? 

Only one coming forward, . . . would open up a can of worms impossible to silence, . . . the fact that NO ONE at all has even hinted of such a conspiracy (except the Democrat party and the US Liberals), . . . that alone proves the "truthers" and "conspiratory" groups are just sucking wind.

The boys from down in Joisey have a word for it: fugetabouddit, . . . your "theory" has more holes in it than the Hindenburg.

Or then again, . . . maybe you folks are just more of the Obama crew, . . . afraid of the words ISLAMIC TERRORISTS. 

May God bless,
Dwight


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## csi-tech

I have no doubt it happened, I have no doubt that it was masterminded by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and carried out by Mohammed Atta and his minions. Anyone who thought they would rest after the failed attempt to blow the WTC from underneath failed was kidding themselves. I expected an attack at some point. I just didn't think we would be that lax in security or that the towers would fall the way they did.


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## gambit

ok what can I say?
I know
I cant fine the study of it but a group of collage kids got bored I guess and wanted to see how much vibration can people in a group can make (Bi*CHSLAP who funded this research)
i cant recall how many or even where but after the numbers they crunched had like few hundred people in a front to back side to side not even fart gas cant get out tighten area
if my memories are right they had the vibration = same as a single locomotive (choo choo train) on the same scale or what ever sh*t they had so again they did it where a few thousand can do and it was equal to a small or mid size tremor
and when a train is coming you can not just feel the vibration on the rail but just standing on the ground even depending how long how much weight yada yada yada
a lot of people on the ground cars trucks dogs cats rats and it is NYC so roaches and not adding the thousands in the buildings shacking things up.
a lot of theory peeps forgot to add is the vibrations and also forget to add not just jet fuel but what is inside the buildings ,' such as people now a quick history on castle sieges , if the castle was higher up and the walls can not be taken and starving them out is also not working the attackers will have tunnels made and line them with straw sticks and PIGS big fat pigs , to cut story short look up Rochester castle in England with king john then you get the point fully.
now with the fats burning from people which is not that far from pigs paper rugs that there is a lot of heat alone
heat vibration blah blah blah , i wanted to say this because there is people who claim to be bunkers to debunkers who do not add those 2 simple equations that has a bigger part towards the theories that surrounds 9/11
i don't know which one to believe to be honest because there is to many flaw information being told by kooks wacks government robots the paperboy lil'jimmy and Kermit the frog ' i do love conspiracies because it makes me play detective (play it again sam)
I' thought ill waste a few hours of youre time trying to understand my grammar/spelling with out going insane for some of you's including myself its already too late .
i just wanted to say this before people believe in all links on this subject and that's only for twin towers and surrounding buildings. i am not touching the pentagon theory because knowing to much is like the brave warrior rushing into battle , he'll be the first to have his head leave his neck
thank you all for coming , this is Jerry Springer saying please Take care of yourself and each other.
kiddie pool of shame away
P.S if you just understood every word and sentence you are bonkers and need to seek help


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## voodoo

I'd_last_a_day said:


> How many people in here saw 12 Angry Men? The 2nd to last juror who changed his guilty plee...he said "The woman saw him do it, that to me is immovable evidence!" My 911 version of immovable evidence is the fact that the BBC reported that 'Building #7 has now also collapsed' BEFORE it collapsed. Not sure how high or low each person's 'Bullsh1t tolerance' is in here but that steps over the line for me. I'm the 11th juror, if you want me to change my vote please explain away that colossal problem!


My favorite is WTC owner Larry Silverstein slipping up and saying how they "pulled it" (a demolition term). Never put a criminal psychpath on camera you never know what he's going to say. What's right or wroing in our world is not the same right or wrong in theirs. Silverstein said:



> *"I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it." *


In case there was any doubt about what he means, then he says:


> "and we watched the building collapse."







So Building 7 was pre-wired for demolition. You can't wire a building in a few hours while it's on fire. That means they are lying about ALL of it. If one building was wired, all three were wired. Only the most hard core reality denier could just look past that.


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## A Watchman

I will take your advice Gambit and seek professional help.


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## voodoo

csi-tech said:


> I have no doubt it happened, I have no doubt that it was masterminded by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and carried out by Mohammed Atta and his minions. *Anyone who thought they would rest after the failed attempt to blow the WTC from underneath failed was kidding themselves.* I expected an attack at some point. I just didn't think we would be that lax in security or that the towers would fall the way they did.


You mean the 1993 WTC attack which the FBI helped plan, and knew about all along? Which we know because the informant the FBI planted in the middle of the plot had a tape recorder rolling on him the whole time he was talking to the FBI?

Informant said on tape:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem


> Salem: Okay. Alright. I don't think it was. If that's what you think guys, fine, but I don't think that because we was start already building the bomb which is went off in the World Trade Center. It was built by supervising supervision from the Bureau and the D.A. and we was all informed about it and we know that the bomb start to be built. By who? By your confidential informant. What a wonderful, great case!


Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast - NYTimes.com


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## Carp614

My tin foil is as tight as the next guys, and I don't trust the federal government for squat. But I can't think of myself as a truther. I don't know what happened, and I'm not sure I want to know.


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## gambit

A Watchman said:


> I will take your advice Gambit and seek professional help.


yes you should because I was buzzed last night I had 1 bottle of cider beer stuff not sure what u call it but like I say I am a cheap date and can not hold my booz .was stressed out abit my shoulder popped last night plus I am on a diet which like to say ( 9 days = 8.4 pounds ) no fad or starving and I cant work out really at all I will explain this after this post for those who wish to lose weight on the health thread note I am not no 75 100 over weight slob and it dose work put your faith in research I taken time to do.

ok I need to repair what I did wrong on that post
what I met by vibration is how heavy a human body can be in motion , people will say yes you are running and what not well go to your living room floor not outside but side with a open space between ground and floor itself
now walk at a fast pace you will notice the force increase in each step now at full speed the human body force with mass can make a a idea weight gambit who is post to be 240-250 pounds healthy weight ( take time to read my health thread later plz) 
now 250 then increase the force and weight I was make at full steam running for your damn lives! now how heavy is average human weigh now X that by just by 3 so a person weights at 175 is now525 pounds in a area of 2 feet round keep up with this you will get your minds blown that is by normal speed BTW when you run like the devil is behind you I am willing you will run a lot faster! now the truth is x3 is not right once so ever that's is only if you are about 120-135ish more weight = a lot more shacking so in my prime I was really fast and did out run track and field runners not to brag but listen , my ideal healthy weight drop it even more weight 230 now X it by 4 = 920 in a 2 foot area and again even that's not right because thy found that it can be up to X5 in force weight so on so on.
more weight = more vibration, now why would I say move with floor with dead space under you, well simple when you run outside is a earth or road it has no give regardless how big a man can get unless he a gaint of 100 feet tail and crap' so now you see you have shockwaves , when you stand on a bridge you can feel the fast vibrating it. dead space and force but wait there more! cars don't have much force going down unless its by bumps then you get small impact from that car so the good part of the vibration you feel is the bouncing of the cars not it passing. so 4 gambits x1 small car moving same speed ' gambits will have more vibration on the ground then that car that is 2-3-4-5x heavier . now you have sewers under those streets that 100 feet thick ground would be like a wooden deck at gambits pool of shame. and its not really if I am correct its about 20-30 max( need smart builder like person to explain) so again how many people on the ground? X that by anywhere from 3-even 5 times the weight/ impact and lest face it a 400 pounds slob knows if he don't move his ass is dead he will run like a rabbit!
people from few miles of the site said that picture frames jars what not where coming off the walls and it felt like small earth quake.
now whos been to that area? raise hands come on show them' (raises hand) there is a lot of people at all times of the day and even more during work hours.
now the buildings . NY buildings are not made to with stand earth quakes (small one hit think it was 3 maybe? long time ago and knocked 3-4 story buildings came down not completely but down so how tall are those buildings? how old? age matters as well back then NONE are ment to withstand even a tremor ( NY had a hiccup few years back and even then stuff fall off the walls.
higher ones = more weight they have and now the iron beams cement the toothpick tower jack the bank build has taken a nasty hit by planes or explosives ( dealers choice ) heat from the inside might not melt the beams but those a large group of smart like people who study this crap had agreed that chances are that the beams can weaken to even more then 80-90 percent or more for what they where met to hold up,
people inside running stairs hallways that just added more and more vibration on weaken floors that now have even more of a wave effect from the damage that just happen and it gets worse as time go's on.
I don't pick sides because I have a lot of theories myself and they can never be more then 100% like any of the ones coming out now!
regardless if it was planes bombs or a mega fart , most of the theories are not adding the 100% facts about what I said most of them are to busy the beams the beams or something else and forgot about basic math done in high school (has only 8th grade education)
so I figured this out with the IQ of a pet rock then the people who sending all the info about this and that says most of them are to closed minded . not saying if they are right or wrong again (dealers choice) but they have more loop holes then then Hillary has dimples on her A$$(looks like 2 golf balls next to each other)
if I recall 'A WATCHMAN ' will know more about how buildings work and all that stuff and can do a better explaining then the numb nut who typing this.
the person with a proper open mind is the one to gather the most knowledge then a close minded who walled himself in from the outside
again sorry for grammar / spelling me not smart me dumb
if you understood what I typed out then you need to seek help rite now!! its already too late for A watchman he understood me that poor soul!


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## rice paddy daddy

voodoo said:


> You mean the 1993 WTC attack which the FBI helped plan, and knew about all along? Which we know because the informant the FBI planted in the middle of the plot had a tape recorder rolling on him the whole time he was talking to the FBI?
> 
> Informant said on tape:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem
> 
> Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast - NYTimes.com


So, tell me, was 12-07-1941 an inside job? There are those who say Franklin Delano Roosevelt was behind it.

And, of course, there is the Gulf of Tonkin matter.

How many shots were fired from the Grassy Knoll in Dallas, November 1963?


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## Kauboy

I didn't take the time to read 5 pages.

No, 9/11 was not an inside job.
We have full evidence of the hijackers taking flight training. We have full evidence of the hijackers boarding these planes. We have recordings of phone conversations from passengers describing the events. We have eye witness accounts of the planes smashing into the buildings. We have video evidence of Osama Bin Laden claiming responsibility for the attack.
When jet fuel ignites, and starts an inferno that engulfs all other possible fuels inside of an office building, the temperature is far more than necessary to weaken the structure of a building. After the top collapsed onto the void created by the planes, the force of that mass slamming into each successive floor caused a domino effect, piling on more mass and more force for the next floor in the sequence. Watching the footage of the collapses, you can see clearly that the windows are blown out of the floors immediately below the collapsing portion. This is due to the interior of the building collapsing first, generating an air burst of pressure that blows out the windows, followed by a caving in of the external walls.
If you're looking for it to be a scripted and controlled collapse, that's what you'll see. That's just not what actually happened.

I do not give mind to asinine theories that would require massive amounts of participants to pull off and incredible timing to get right.
This isn't Hollywood. They didn't get another take because something failed. They don't get to just pay the actors and everybody goes home and never says a word about it.
Do you realize the organization that would have had to happen for any of this to be pre-planned? The logistics are impossible.

The conspiracies revolving around the events of that day are absolute and utter fiction. To give them any credit is to foment delusion and enable an unhealthy mental state where one must accept whimsy as reality, simply because one *wants* to believe in something.

Do I believe our government conducts false-flag operations, or misleads the public as to their actions, even when those actions are lethal?
The answer is a wholehearted YES!
Why? Because we have evidence of them doing it. We have "whistle blowers", and declassified documents detailing such events of the past happening in our own country and elsewhere in the world.

We have no such evidence with regards to 9/11. None. Just theory, assumption, and contradicting second hand accounts.


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## rice paddy daddy

Kauboy said:


> I didn't take the time to read 5 pages.
> 
> No, 9/11 was not an inside job.
> We have full evidence of the hijackers taking flight training. We have full evidence of the hijackers boarding these planes. We have recordings of phone conversations from passengers describing the events. We have eye witness accounts of the planes smashing into the buildings. We have video evidence of Osama Bin Laden claiming responsibility for the attack.
> When jet fuel ignites, and starts an inferno that engulfs all other possible fuels inside of an office building, the temperature is far more than necessary to weaken the structure of a building. After the top collapsed onto the void created by the planes, the force of that mass slamming into each successive floor caused a domino effect, piling on more mass and more force for the next floor in the sequence. Watching the footage of the collapses, you can see clearly that the windows are blown out of the floors immediately below the collapsing portion. This is due to the interior of the building collapsing first, generating an air burst of pressure that blows out the windows, followed by a caving in of the external walls.
> If you're looking for it to be a scripted and controlled collapse, that's what you'll see. That's just not what actually happened.
> 
> I do not give mind to asinine theories that would require massive amounts of participants to pull off and incredible timing to get right.
> This isn't Hollywood. They didn't get another take because something failed. They don't get to just pay the actors and everybody goes home and never says a word about it.
> Do you realize the organization that would have had to happen for any of this to be pre-planned? The logistics are impossible.
> 
> The conspiracies revolving around the events of that day are absolute and utter fiction. To give them any credit is to foment delusion and enable an unhealthy mental state where one must accept whimsy as reality, simply because one *wants* to believe in something.
> 
> Do I believe our government conducts false-flag operations, or misleads the public as to their actions, even when those actions are lethal?
> The answer is a wholehearted YES!
> Why? Because we have evidence of them doing it. We have "whistle blowers", and declassified documents detailing such events of the past happening in our own country and elsewhere in the world.
> 
> We have no such evidence with regards to 9/11. None. Just theory, assumption, and contradicting second hand accounts.


Shhhh!
How dare you introduce reality, and spoil my large investment in Reynolds Aluminum's Tin Foil Division!:glee::glee:


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## gambit

I feel when it did happen a theory nothing more
they didn't plan it to happen but after it did then the gears started to roll then they used it to it to get what they want even for the better or just to be dicks to American people they wanted to make it little more worse then what it really was 
I don't feel any higher people in charge (whom I do believe are real) used it for their aganda


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## Kauboy

gambit said:


> I feel when it did happen a theory nothing more
> they didn't plan it to happen but after it did then the gears started to roll then they used it to it to get what they want even for the better or just to be dicks to American people they wanted to make it little more worse then what it really was
> I don't feel any higher people in charge (whom I do believe are real) used it for their aganda


"Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Rahm Emmanuel

Who caused the crisis is often irrelevant.


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## dwight55

Kauboy said:


> "Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Rahm Emmanuel
> 
> Who caused the crisis is often irrelevant.


No, . . . Kauboy, . . . you are wrong on that point. It is most seriously relevant, . . . and just like that buttheaded bully you had to face when you were younger, . . . the longer you waited, . . . the worse the bullying became.

I still say that if we had turned Medina, Mecca, Tehran, Ryad, Bagdad, . . . and maybe a half dozen other ******* watering holes into craters, . . . this problem going on today, . . . would not be a problem.

It's not too late either, . . . yet.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## voodoo

Kauboy said:


> I didn't take the time to read 5 pages.
> 
> No, 9/11 was not an inside job.
> We have full evidence of the hijackers taking flight training. We have full evidence of the hijackers boarding these planes. We have recordings of phone conversations from passengers describing the events. We have eye witness accounts of the planes smashing into the buildings. We have video evidence of Osama Bin Laden claiming responsibility for the attack.
> 
> When jet fuel ignites, and starts an inferno that engulfs all other possible fuels inside of an office building, the temperature is far more than necessary to weaken the structure of a building. After the top collapsed onto the void created by the planes, the force of that mass slamming into each successive floor caused a domino effect, piling on more mass and more force for the next floor in the sequence. Watching the footage of the collapses, you can see clearly that the windows are blown out of the floors immediately below the collapsing portion. This is due to the interior of the building collapsing first, generating an air burst of pressure that blows out the windows, followed by a caving in of the external walls.


So what if they took flight training? Do you know what a patsy is? Of course we have eyewitness accounts of planes smashing into buildings. What do you think truthers are claiming?

Jet fuel is only kerosene.  Small kerosene and office fires do not weaken 100 stories of steel frame. But here is where you are really wrong: even if they did, there is no such thing as something going faster and faster because it gets heavier and heavier. That is the whole point of the video on Galileo, all objects fall to earth at the same speed regardless of weight. The top floors could only go slower and stop, not go faster and faster. If you think 9/11 was not an inside job you don't understand Galileo's Laws of Gravity.






Oh by the way bin Laden DENIED 9/11: The videos of him "confessing" are jokes. His face is different, his beard gets darker as he ages lol (dying the beard is forbidden)



> I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle...
> 
> The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the US system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity...


*Real bin Laden on right, "confession" video bin Laden on left*








http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_binladen01.htm



> *Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Ronald Reagan, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, former editor of the Wall Street Journal and the National Review, William E. Simon Chair for Economic Policy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies at Georgetown University, Distinguished Fellow at the Cato Institute, Senior Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What We Know and Don't Know About 9/11
> 
> by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts*
> 
> I will begin by stating what we know to be a solid incontrovertible scientific fact.
> 
> We know that it is strictly impossible for any building, much less steel columned buildings, to "pancake" at free fall speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false.
> 
> We also know for a fact that the Air Force somehow inexplicably failed to intercept the alleged hijacked airliners despite the fact that the Air Force can launch jet fighters to 29,000 feet in 2.5 minutes. We also know that the two co-chairmen of the 9/11 Commission have just written a book that reveals that the US military lied to the Commission about its failure to intercept the hijacked airliners.
> 
> There are various explanations for this second fact. The military could have lied to cover up complicity or to cover-up its incompetence. However, no investigation has been made to ascertain the true explanation for the failure.
> 
> This leaves us with the incontrovertible fact that buildings cannot "pancake" at free fall speeds.
> 
> The only explanation known to science for the free fall collapse of a building, especially into its own footprint, is engineered demolition, which removes the supports for each floor of the building at split second intervals so that the debris from above meets no resistance on its fall. To call this explanation a "conspiracy theory" is to display the utmost total ignorance. Any physicist or engineer who maintains that buildings can "pancake" at free fall speed has obviously been bought and paid for or is a total incompetent fool.
> 
> The WTC buildings are known to have collapsed at free fall speed into their own footprints.
> 
> This fact does not tell us who is responsible or what purpose was served.
> 
> Since the damning incontrovertible fact has not been investigated, speculation and "conspiracy theories" have filled the void. Some of the speculation is based on circumstantial evidence and is plausible. Other of the speculation is untenable, and it is used to protect the official explanation by branding all skeptics "conspiracy theorists." I would not be surprised if some of the most far-out "conspiracy theories" consist, in fact, of disinformation put out by elements in the government to discredit all skeptics. But I do not know this to be the case.
> 
> How could government complicity be kept a secret? It can be kept a secret, because so many Americans are scientifically ignorant and emotionally weak.



*US Military Officers and Officials Believe 9/11 Was an Inside Job*









General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) - Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army's Intelligence Center.


> "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army's Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, 'The plane does not fit in that hole'. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?"











Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. PhD in Aeronautics, Nuclear Engineering.



> "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story ... of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It's impossible. &#8230; There's a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don't want us to know what happened. Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? I think the case is pretty clear that it's highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney."











Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.



> "The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden."


----------



## Will2

since your comments are a reply to my words I'm posting back


I'd_last_a_day said:


> 'Conspiracy Theory' is the adult version of the phrase 'Simon Says.' It doesn't matter how credible or non-credible a claim is, once you claim something that goes against an official government explanation "Simon says you are a Conspiracy Theorist." It matters not what your points are. And the hypnotic state of this phrase is so powerful that people live in a state of self contradiction...ask 100 people if politicians are liars, they all answer yes. Ask the same 100 people if the government is made up of politicians, they all answer yes. Tell the same 100 people an alternative explanation for any government explanation and almost all will say 'Oh you're a conspiracy theorist!' Now it's ok if your points suck but the crazy thing is that they will react like that before you can even make a point. So OP is basically asking a gravity question...the replies he gets is "(Simon Says) Hey Conspiracy Theorist you have your own section down below!"


What? I think the problem is, is that in the mainstream conspiracy theorists are viewed as nuts who have delusional, non factual versions of events, which puts their mental faculty in question. They become easy targets of diagnosis such as schizophrenia, and if acting out against authority based on these can be deemed psychotic and out of touch. Oh he is just insane, he thinks the government is attacking and killing its own people, etc..

Posting this in general talk as opposed to the conspiracy/aliens/end of world etc.. subforum is exposing otherwise unsuspecting people who have light views of the events from being more easily labled as crazies. Lots of people don't know how the government uses KGBesque techniques to profile and silence people. Innocent discussion online turns into an eternal and unsuspecting source of secret police information databases, or non-police agencies in creating and profiling people. These systems themselves are transfered between groups who have all written fictionalized accounts of people based upon statements taken out of context can be fused to create totally false profiles that government systems then act on to engage with people. While this post seems innocent, it is being posted as a "serious" discussion, as opposed to one that is intended and acknowledged as "odd talk", entertainment or humourous in purpose. I am not saying a government agent or chicom or other organization posted this to bait people, but I really do think it was posted in the wrong forum and presents a liability, especially to those who think they are anonymous. When in fact the government, albeit very poorly attempts to determine identitites of posters on websites such as these. They also scour the internet for people in their investigation lists based on not only name but also metadata, images and other investigative techniques. People commenting on this, are possibly putting their mental credibility at risk, especially if they arn't engineering specialists.



> Here's a definition...Conspiracy Theorist - A person who accuses confirmed pathological liars of lying.
> I wish there was a way to figure out how to take this hypnotic power over to the poker table...create a table full of opponents who believe that pocket pairs are the best starting hands, yet they also believe that you're a conspiracy theorist if you believe that pocket pairs are the best starting hands.


I have no idea what you are saying.

I don't play poker. I've never been a gambler.

Do we have all the info, no.
Will we ever have that, no.

lets move on.

If the engineers of America can't have enough specialist power to proove this 15 years later, NO ONE IS GOING TO. Even if it was brought down good luck finding the people who did. The events that day, cannot have any credible outcome today because it is too entrenched in the public consciousness. It would be like trying to relearn the word I, and use Y instead. People wouldn't understand why they would do that, why it really matters, etc..

The people using Y would as minorities be viewed as "in the wrong". Weirdos. Afterall who uses a Y for themselves? I have no doubt at all there is no ability to act to change the social consciousness on this. Only God will be able to hold those accountable for what they ought to be.

Even if someone here did know exactly what happened, if their version deviates from the mainstream or even counter culture views it will just be a weirdos voice. The truth can't be know if it is not the line that already exists. People wouldn't accept it.


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## voodoo

Will2 said:


> since your comments are a reply to my words I'm posting back
> 
> What? I think the problem is, is that in the mainstream conspiracy theorists are viewed as nuts who have* delusional, non factual versions of events,.*.


Stopped reading you right there. What is "non-factual" about the fact that 99.5% of the steel was sent to China and India to be melted in record time? Depriving everyone of a way to reconstruct the crime? FACT CorpWatch.org *-*Issues *-*Beyond 9-11 *-*Articles *-*World Trade Center Scrap Lands in India

or the presence of molten steel, thermitic incendiaries, and evidence of an extreme heat reaction going beyond what kerosene (jet fuel) and office furniture fires can produce? FACTS

Context of 'September 12, 2001-February 2002: Witnesses See Molten Metal in the Remains at Ground Zero'


> Leslie Robertson, one of the structural engineers responsible for the design of the WTC, describes fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks.


9-11 Research: Active Thermitic Material

I could stop there and already given you more facts than you have given me in your whole string of posts, which is nothing but official story regurgitated. You have not answered a single point which I have made, least of all how mass goes faster and faster as it gets heavier and heavier.

It doesn't. That's why the official story has to be false.






Now give me just one eensy teensy fact with a real link. Cut and paste from the "debunker" sites don't count.

As for the rest of your post, wow I thought I was paranoid!


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## gambit

I wonder how much a lot of these people make off the theories they come up with
there has been a few professors and 2 of them asked to get on alex jones (he refused) i wonder why? ohh because like most 'entertainers' he makes money always never trust any one who is selling something and claiming its for a good cause (their own)
I will take time tomorrow to get the names of few and whom never get air time for some reason , yet I do know one did make it to coast to coast am
he was the one that said 90% of the people who are post to be adding numbers but they forgot to add all, not what I said about mass force blah blah blah
none of them add the other facts such as the damage being done by people running on towers that has now weaken beams by 80-90% depending on the location some spots they all feel that was under the impact of the jets would have most damage making those support and floor weaken to more then 95%(that's allot) 
again look at king john did with 40 pigs, he taken a huge chuck from a wall which the narrowest part was the top only by 4+ wide and the bottom was more then 16 feet wide and again its a wall its post to be long also note it was made to withstand catapults firing at them and they did. now again the tunnels he had made the top of the roof was more then 6 feet of stones dirt until they get to the castle walls itself . can you compare those walls to a twin towers walls? yes why because how thick are the walls on the outside how thick are support walls and beams? now rochcaster castle in England that wall went down like a 5 dollar street hooker
above the impact is now weaken as well and because of this the inside will give more then outside in few locations 
the beams have been proven to melt them it will take so much heat that the impact of the jets people on the ground will be able to feel the heat that's a lot of heat to melt but to weaken them not even close amount that it will take to melt and brings me back to what was inside the towers computers pens desk chairs chemicals of all kinds and human FAT which like pigs once they start to burn and catch fire you have a lot of heat and how many people are again in those towers. as the one professor said the floors would came down hard and it be one after anther from the weight from floors on felling on top of them and if the inside is stronger then the outside and the jets didn't bounce off the walls they went right into them and made it to half way or more to the middle of each tower
and again remind they never add the weight of people running dropping rolling over hell I bet a few knocked boots even . 100 pound man running at full speed on a floor with dead space can add up to 4-5 -6 X there weight on each step ( what comes up goes must come down) and it has gravity to add more weight more force even a brain dead man (such as self) knows this
now lets add the buildings that came down did they come down one after anther in seconds? no for what people said over a MILE away the walls shacked pictures cars TVs off the walls and stands again over a mile away from the location itself and none stop for long time, which is the shock that travels on the ground like a water waves the sewers under the buildings gave them dead space so they shock waves got stronger and you know the rest
if you can feel a single locomotive almost a mile away just touching the ground and not the rails now the amount of people in the buildings alone will out number 20+ single locomotives. now picture how much you will fell within 1 mile with that many going by and now add the people on the streets times that by 4-5 that's a lot of CHOO CHOO trains and this time they have deadspace to increase the shockwaves that will bring down any building regardless how its built and when.
if you can fell cars on a bridge standing their think of what those tiny little shockwaves are doing to support beams walls.
now to the people claiming this and that! they getting money from some where screwloose guys never did tell people how much they made after a few years of the seekers of truth they claim to be. yea hum here help you go look them up and see just what they are driving. no need to say more money is made some where regardless if they say its all free information 
the biggest one of them all is alex jones yes some things he said did came true but so did other people who said it way before he did and all he did was claim it as his own and how much money he has? in one broadcast he claimed people came and poisoned one of his dogs and one day a guy some how was able to show alex only had dog license for 2 and yet he claimed he loved all 3 of the dogs and when asked can he prove he had 3 alex pretty much hanged up on him after he going how dare you blah blah blah
then said he was a agent of evil and all this other sh*t, alex was caught red handed, and I am not a fan of some one in every sentence yells MEGA DEATH I bet he says that when hes doing the nasty or when he is making brown (pooping)
don't just go with any one who is advertising anything like when they say DR poopie face from brownstain who happens to work for? yea $$$$ any way to get it cheap or free they say pretty much anything thing to advertise 
and there are many other facts that are not being added to the math 
and who are the inside resources that wont show their face? odds are a good chunk of them will do or say anything to get in the spotlight so they will feel better or look more cooler to whom ever, never trust any one who can makes a profit out of a lie

this guy once said a good tactic to beat a enemy is to give them information a lie or don't tell them at all or the truth but not all of it! so think of a medieval knights was told by insider that their is only 20 footman over the hill. they charge and killed them and didn't know that they also had 40 archers on the side, the insider didn't lie he just didn't tell the whole truth,
the guy who said it was not a smart man just very open minded ( me )
people who want to seek the truth need to open their minds to all the facts and not by a few who obsessed with just a few things 
I only keep talking about vibration shockwaves and stuff only because in each link on here never talked about those facts which are not added when they should be

a closed mind is stuck in a room with 4 walls and no doors , a open mind has 4 walls and 4 doors and a few are not locked and truth is behind one of them so don't believe anything that people who has been known to say false tells and not the government either because well when have they not lied ( dealers choice )


----------



## tango

Just what is the 911 truth?


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## Medic33

the truth you want to hear is the truth that you will find.
the actual fact of truth is biased according to voodoo.
my truth, your truth, their truth, fact is most of it is an opinion not truth
and well opinions are like assholes every ones got one and most of the time they are full of crap.


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## Medic33

you bring this BS here and drop it on the table. After it all has been hashed and rehashed then debunked and driven over with a truck of fine toothed combs.
so were does that leave us?
every cover up the GOV has had eventually comes out in the sun
A. Bush is the greatest criminal master mind on the face of this planet-after all no one has even squeaked even a rumor about it including all the players and want-a-be players.
or
B. he's retarded.


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## Smitty901

If you are trying the liberal college BS That Bush and Cheney did . You won't get anywhere with me. The Muslims did and that is that.
No madder how many professors the University systems hires to teach different the facts are the same Muslims crashed the towers.


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## Slippy

So voodoo,

What is your goal with this thread in one or two short paragraphs? Just tell us what you think and try and be as direct and to the point that you can be. Are you hoping to change anybody's mind? Are you searching for answers?

Or are you just trolling for reaction?

I really have no idea what you are trying to accomplish so please help me? 

Thanks

Slippy


----------



## voodoo

tango said:


> Just what is the 911 truth?


A relatively small cabal of conspirators, many placed high in the government, especially CIA, DoD, Bush administration "Neocons" who were members of Project for a New American Century, pulled off a coup to change the direction of the US, in both foreign and domestic policy (Middle East invasions, Patriot Act.) People who weren't going along with program got threatened with death, like Sen. Tom Daschle and Sen. Pat Leahy, who were holding up the Patriot Act. Remember the anthrax attacks? Who got them? Leahy, Daschle, and each major news network. That's about as clear a message as you can get.

Anthrax attacks: http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/terror/anthrax.html









Project for a New American Century members who were in the Bush administration included Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Dov Zakheim, and Scooter Libby (list below.)

People who say "someone would have talked" don't understand how a violent mob works. They aren't ASKING you to shut up, they are telling you. They don't send an invitation to ask if you want to have a coup. They just do it, by surprise, and then anyone who doesn't understand there is a new program will have problems. The mafia sends its messages through violence, a fish head, a finger or a hand. People understand messages like that. Five people died in the anthrax attacks. A message like that says "we mean business." There are also a string of dead witnesses in 9/11, but most people don't know about them. Anyone care to look them up. *google 9/11 dead witnesses, you'll see.*

So now we get to invade Iraq and shut down the pesky Constitution, which gave all these people rights and such. Can't just throw a reporter in jail or make him disappear. But now if you say he was "associated" with terrorism you can. Remaking the map of the Middle East was always on the Neocon agenda, even when Clinton was in office. Read about Project for a New American Century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century PNAC once worte a paper which mentioned a "new Pearl Harbor" which would make it easier to do what they wanted.


> "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor."


But more importantly, 9/11 is the war profiteers dream come true. An invisible enemy and war contracts that go on forever, in a war that lasts forever. Best yet, you are using the peoples' own money to control them, if they don't like it, with cameras, drones, NSA spying, just like in George Orwell. You think all this is to catch terrorists?

Where Bush fit into all this is interesting. Historian Webster Tarpley speculates that he might have been given an ultimate to go along with the program, or be next to die. They left Bush like a sitting duck for 25 minutes in the Florida classroom on 9/11. Since it was an announced event, any terrorist knew exactly where he was. He should have got hustled off by the Secret Service after a minute at most, and told the kids he had important prezdent business to attend to. But no. They let him sit there and stew a little.






Bush administration members of Project for a New American Century:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...ation:_Project_for_t he_New_American_Century

Elliott Abrams Special Assistant to the President.

Richard Armitage Deputy Secretary of State (2001-2005)

John R. Bolton Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs (2001-2005), U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2005-2006)

Dick Cheney Vice President (2001-2009)

Zalmay Khalilzad U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan (11/2003 - 6/2005), U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (6/2005 - 3/2007) U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2007-2009)

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby Chief of Staff to the Vice President of the United States (2001-2005)

Richard Perle Chairman of the Board, Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee (2001-2003)

Peter W. Rodman Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security (2001-2007)

Donald Rumsfeld Secretary of Defense (2001-2006)

Paul Wolfowitz Deputy Secretary of Defense (2001-2005) 10th President of the World Bank (2005-2007)

Dov S. Zakheim Department of Defense Comptroller (2001-2004)


----------



## I'd_last_a_day

Maybe it's implied i'm a Truther but to be clear i'm an undecided guy who works at a place where these things (and everything under the sun) are argued everyday, it's fun and passes the time, and sometimes you just come out of the gate as a pure representative of a stance just to save time, but in reality I think I can argue both ways. So certain questions remain for me, certain points Truthers make have stuck with me as not yet resolved. Sorry guys but when I inquire about not yet resolved questions such answers as 'You are a Kook' will only cause me to conclude that there is no good answer, therefore increasing the strength of the Truther argument. I continue to have a problem with the news reporting that a building has collapsed BEFORE it collapsed! Now clearly in any aspect of your life news being reported to you as having already happened prior to it happening is a green light to be completely suspect of the entire situation. I've failed to ever see an example in my life where this logic should be suspended, can someone tell me why 911 qualifies as such a situation where I should suspend that logic?

The explosives in the building, the deafening silence of potential whistle blowers, etc...i want to be clear that although I feel like a case can be made for that stuff it is not on the same level as the psychic building 7 collapse report (for me). And even though it's not on that level I still don't think it merits an automatic Kook label. I think too much emphasis gets put on the complexity of the details as being way too complicated to hide, and not enough acknowledgement on the 'Turn a blind eye' aspect of false flags. Just think of all the little subtle things that governments are guilty of simply by ignoring intelligence. Just think about your own life when it comes to blatant lies vs lies of ommission, it's a huge liability difference. Even Kauboy acknowledged not letting a good crisis go to waste and he was one of the Truther bashers. Well that also applies to 'Allowing' a crisis to occur, and than not letting it go to waste. It doesn't need to be hundreds of planners involved.

Such a blind eye conspiracy would be much smaller, but also this theory that surely people would talk doesn't consider 2 things. #1 entire careers are, and have always been, based upon confidential sworn secrecy (CIA, FBI) to the grave, even to a spouse. #2 these people are vetted, these people believe in their 'Greater good' cause, they do not feel shame when they look at their kids they feel patriotic pride that their actions have kept their kids safe. The 'Someone would have talked' argument gets watered down the fewer the amount of people involved.

But can't the 'Too complicated to pull it off' argument also be turned around and be used for the hijackers? Someone said 'This isn't a movie.' I'm sorry but any way it went down was pretty damn close to a movie...whether a hands on conspiracy, a blind eye conspiracy, or 19 Muslims pulling all that off on their own...ANY of those 3 possibilities is mind boggling and required an insane amount of planning, and would make one hell of a movie.

Here's another Truther argument that has stayed with me as not yet resolved, I can't scratch my balls at a poker table without it being caught on camera yet a plane flew into the Mother F***ing Pentagon and there is zero video footage of the plane, just a fire ball??
My neighbor who makes $40K a year has surveillance on his house and his garage, in other words, had the plane flew into his house he would have had video of the plane coming in. So, time for me to stress in caps again lol, The MOTHER F***ING PENTAGON has an inferior surveillance system compared to my neighbor who makes $40K a year?? And being baffled by this bizaar unlikelihood merits me the label of a Kook lol?? Really?? Seems like a pretty legit question to me, why does my neighbor have better surveillance than the Pentagon?



Medic33 said:


> ... it all has been hashed and rehashed then debunked and driven over with a truck of fine toothed combs.


By all means set me straight, by all means hash out & rehash, debunk, and drive over my sticking points. If anything give me some good material to piss off the Truthers that I work with lol


----------



## txmarine6531

It's been 14 years. Get a life.


----------



## I'd_last_a_day

txmarine6531 said:


> It's been 14 years. Get a life.


'Get a life.' Lol another non-answer answer...it boggles the mind. Yet if confronted with a gun hating liberal who evades your questions i'm sure you'd be the first to scream 'Do you know how to answer a question!??'


----------



## txmarine6531

I'd_last_a_day said:


> 'Get a life.' Lol another non-answer answer...it boggles the mind. Yet if confronted with a gun hating liberal who evades your questions i'm sure you'd be the first to scream 'Do you know how to answer a question!??'


In other words, if there was a great conspiracy and cover up, we'll never find out about it in our life time. IF there was something like that, the people who know are either dead already or will be killed if they talk. I'm pretty sure they were given an incentive to keep quiet. So, we can beat a dead horse, or move on with our lives. Huddling in the basement with tin foil hats and discussing this till the cows come home won't bring forth anything but the same old tired shit. So by all means, don an apron, put on some safety glasses, grab your conspiracy bat and whack away.


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## voodoo

txmarine6531 said:


> In other words, if there was a great conspiracy and cover up, we'll never find out about it in our life time. IF there was something like that, the people who know are either dead already or will be killed if they talk. I'm pretty sure they were given an incentive to keep quiet. So, we can beat a dead horse, or move on with our lives. Huddling in the basement with tin foil hats and discussing this till the cows come home won't bring forth anything but the same old tired shit. So by all means, don an apron, put on some safety glasses, grab your conspiracy bat and whack away.


I disagree that 9/11 is a dead issue, since it still runs our lives every day when you consider that a new expansion of the right to spy on us or feel us up at the airport gets announced every day, and it all traces back to 9/11. If allowing your daughter to get groped by a stranger at the airport isn't the mark of a castrated sheep, I don't know what is, and that is the point of it. They want to remind us we are nothing more than farm animals, so tame you can handle their young.


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## Viper

*One of the stupidest effing threads ever*.

4th poster to make my ignore list.


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## voodoo

Viper said:


> 4th poster to make my ignore list.


Should I consider that a good sign?


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## I'd_last_a_day

Viper said:


> *One of the stupidest effing threads ever*.
> 
> 4th poster to make my ignore list.





txmarine6531 said:


> So by all means, don an apron, put on some safety glasses, grab your conspiracy bat and whack away.


Ouch I'm not gaining too many popularity points in here lol this is very one sided. Been awhile for me actually on 911 talk and it's usually at work never was in a forum about it. I didn't realize it'd be so one sided, maybe in forums there were just WAY TOO MANY threads about it over the years, is that it? Well, It's more fun when it's more evenly matched I think I'll watch some DVR'd basketball instead haha


----------



## Will2

voodoo said:


> Stopped reading you right there. What is "non-factual" about the fact that 99.5% of the steel was sent to China and India to be melted in record time?


Are there records for steel shipping? Do people track these things? How many WTC's have been previously knocked down, or even steel framed skyscrappers to compare this too? Realize what you are saying.

What the heck does debris removal times have to do with anything? It is non-evidence, not evidence. When you have giant piles of metal isn't the right course to remove that metal, clean up the site, allow probing for stuff underneath it? Where are you going to store that stuff? Really is there some giant empty space the City of NY owns to keep huge amounts of building debris? Why increase costs?



> Depriving everyone of a way to reconstruct the crime?


Did you want to pay the moving and storage bills? Data on the metal was obtained. None the less, non-evidence is not evidence, it is suspicion and speculation? Why create grounds for suspicion and speculation? That metal was analysed before it was shipped. Forensic teams were given access to it.

Dude there you go with labeling.

You are talking in circles.

You are also contradicting your statements. Why is the metal so important if you know what happened to it?

The sale of scrap metal makes sense because forensic teams were done with it, and it would end up costing money to store longterm. No further research on it was requested from the investigating authorities.


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## gambit

think we all should chill before the ignore buttons and name calling and acting like bunch of 12 year olds fighting with poop on a stick
pretty much people such as my self come here not to just shoot the sh*t but learn new things and theories as well but not to get arguments , a good debate is fun and challenge on good terns .
we are here to be preppers we all have something to learn novice such as myself is always get ideas and before I try them I check to see how many tried the same thing and did they get the same results 
already people using the ignore buttons what will happen if they need to ask something fast and the person on the ignore has the information and at the time people who don't know cant help you in the issue. and the one who did you cant see what they wrote.
like I said a open mind is the best mind don't be closed minded , if you do you can end up in the walls that you can not get out or nothing can get in such as important or good information .
lets keep good debates a good debate on even good terms and not into a damn kids fights with dookie on a stick!

ok now I feel I am stealing this thread but 
seeing WILL2 is back after a long period of time will we be seeing that debate between WILL2 and slippy? I haved looked forward to a good duel just between those 2 like the rules of the agreement stated 
I am not going to instigate it if it will turn into a fight like this thread did

now lets all of us be nice and put on are tin foils hats and remember we are all being watched by the government because we are consider to be terrorist soon we joined or peep at sites such as this




 you all know that this is cute


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Will2 said:


> Are there records for steel shipping? Do people track these things? How many WTC's have been previously knocked down, or even steel framed skyscrappers to compare this too? Realize what you are saying.
> 
> What the heck does debris removal times have to do with anything? It is non-evidence, not evidence. When you have giant piles of metal isn't the right course to remove that metal, clean up the site, allow probing for stuff underneath it? Where are you going to store that stuff? Really is there some giant empty space the City of NY owns to keep huge amounts of building debris? Why increase costs?
> 
> Did you want to pay the moving and storage bills? Data on the metal was obtained. None the less, non-evidence is not evidence, it is suspicion and speculation? Why create grounds for suspicion and speculation? That metal was analysed before it was shipped. Forensic teams were given access to it.
> 
> Dude there you go with labeling.
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> You are also contradicting your statements. Why is the metal so important if you know what happened to it?
> 
> The sale of scrap metal makes sense because forensic teams were done with it, and it would end up costing money to store longterm. No further research on it was requested from the investigating authorities.


Will is correct here.
There are, in fact, steel beams left here in this country as memorials.
Several tons was also used to re-cast to become part of the bow of the USS New York.


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## gambit

a brief history lesson 
japan bought a lot of are scrape metal before WW2 and pearl habor 
and they did return it just with out a receipt 
china did buy some of that metal , no I don't feel china will plan to invade America I just wanted to threw it out for giggles


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## jamisonbirdsong

There is a lot of evidence that the truthers may be on to something, but both sides have some coherent arguments. I personally am not a truther, but am open to evidence and logical arguments either way. I know I do not know everything and I do not blindly trust the Federal Government. I am a minimalist prepper and don't do it for political reasons. I feel it is common sense to prepare for hurricane (coastal urban dweller) and I'm realistic that another great depression could happen in my lifetime.


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## voodoo

Will2 said:


> Are there records for steel shipping? Do people track these things? How many WTC's have been previously knocked down, or even steel framed skyscrappers to compare this too? Realize what you are saying.
> 
> What the heck does debris removal times have to do with anything? It is non-evidence, not evidence. When you have giant piles of metal isn't the right course to remove that metal, clean up the site, allow probing for stuff underneath it? Where are you going to store that stuff? Really is there some giant empty space the City of NY owns to keep huge amounts of building debris? Why increase costs?
> 
> Did you want to pay the moving and storage bills? Data on the metal was obtained. None the less, non-evidence is not evidence, it is suspicion and speculation? Why create grounds for suspicion and speculation? That metal was analysed before it was shipped. Forensic teams were given access to it.
> 
> Dude there you go with labeling.
> 
> You are talking in circles.
> 
> You are also contradicting your statements. Why is the metal so important if you know what happened to it?
> 
> The sale of scrap metal makes sense because forensic teams were done with it, and it would end up costing money to store longterm. No further research on it was requested from the investigating authorities.


Why increase costs? This is the greatest crime in American history, which brought us into wars which costs trillions and which we are still paying for today.

Only some FBI agents were given access to the steel, not trained in metallurgy, science, physics, and engineering. When you preserve evidence you don't say "throw out all the bullet casings, just a handfull will do." You put a flag on the ground where every single one of them was found, then you save all of them forever in case a new technology is developed, the way DNA was, that can solve crimes there were unsolvable before.

In the case of 9/11 99.5% of the steel was scooped up and dumped on barges going to China and India for immediate melting. That is mind-boggling for an unprecedented event which cost 3000 lives. Fire Science professors were begging Giuliani to stop, but apparently he had his orders. You keep all evidence because all of it tells a story, and where one person might not see it, another might be able. It would have been obvious those beams were cut by explosives, or else why try to hide them? There are military bases out west half the size of Nevada. It should have been stored out there in hangars, for the best minds to examine.

It is obvious the towers were cut to pieces and blown out in a demolition, because you can see most of the cut frames in straight, clean-cut pieces laying one or two football fields away from the tower basements, in satellite photos after the attack. How did they get out there if the towers got soft and and twisted and fell in a gravity collapse? Last I heard gravity went downward, not sideways. Which will be the next thing that will be made up to explain it. Sideways gravity!

*Click on this photo to zoom in, taken on Sept. 23, 12 days after attack, while search for victims was still on. All those little straight sticks you see are pieces of tower steel frame.*












Here you can see those beams being cut and flung out by explosives:






Fire Science Professor says feds destroyed 9/11 evidence:


----------



## Kauboy

All of your idiocy has been debunked, but you won't read it.
You're convinced of something, and can't be persuaded.

You are the perfect "useful idiot".

This thread is done.
Please close it.


----------



## voodoo

Kauboy said:


> All of your idiocy has been debunked, but you won't read it.
> You're convinced of something, and can't be persuaded.
> 
> You are the perfect "useful idiot".
> 
> This thread is done.
> Please close it.


lol all you can do is repeat that something has been "debunked" as if closing your eyes and tapping your heels together and saying "There's no place like home" will make it come true. The definition of a sheeple denier. Please tell how, just to take one example, the last thing I posted has been "debunked."



> It is obvious the towers were cut to pieces and blown out in a demolition, because you can see most of the cut frames in straight, clean-cut pieces laying one or two football fields away from the tower basements, in satellite photos after the attack. How did they get out there if the towers got soft and and twisted and fell in a gravity collapse? Last I heard gravity went downward, not sideways. Which will be the next thing that will be made up to explain it. Sideways gravity!
> 
> *Click on this photo to zoom in, taken on Sept. 23, 12 days after attack, while search for victims was still on. All those little straight sticks you see are pieces of tower steel frame.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see those beams being cut and flung out by explosives:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fire Science Professor says feds destroyed 9/11 evidence:


----------



## bigwheel

Ok..he got twitted yesterday.


----------



## voodoo

waiting, kauboy



Kauboy said:


> All of your idiocy has been debunked, but you won't read it.
> You're convinced of something, and can't be persuaded.
> 
> You are the perfect "useful idiot".
> 
> This thread is done.
> Please close it.


lol all you can do is repeat that something has been "debunked" as if closing your eyes and tapping your heels together and saying "There's no place like home" will make it come true. The definition of a sheeple denier. Please tell how, just to take one example, the last thing I posted has been "debunked."



> It is obvious the towers were cut to pieces and blown out in a demolition, because you can see most of the cut frames in straight, clean-cut pieces laying one or two football fields away from the tower basements, in satellite photos after the attack. How did they get out there if the towers got soft and and twisted and fell in a gravity collapse? Last I heard gravity went downward, not sideways. Which will be the next thing that will be made up to explain it. Sideways gravity!
> 
> *Click on this photo to zoom in, taken on Sept. 23, 12 days after attack, while search for victims was still on. All those little straight sticks you see are pieces of tower steel frame.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you can see those beams being cut and flung out by explosives:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fire Science Professor says feds destroyed 9/11 evidence:


----------



## hawgrider




----------



## Kauboy

voodoo said:


> waiting, kauboy


Not sure what you have left to wait for.
All of your regurgitated idiocy was responded to in a link provided by our dear Slippy: Slippy's post on page 3

Go read that entire site.
You won't, and you'll continue to make an ass of yourself, but at least this is giving you another chance.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Let this be a reminder to preppers.
You never know the mental state of people you may run into after a calamity, or even now for that matter.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Kauboy said:


> Not sure what you have left to wait for.
> All of your regurgitated idiocy was responded to in a link provided by our dear Slippy: Slippy's post on page 3
> 
> Go read that entire site.
> You won't, and you'll continue to make an ass of yourself, but at least this is giving you another chance.


Alex Jones must be proud of his followers.:joyous:


----------



## Medic33

so mr voodoo,
WTF are you going to do about it?
nothing except flap your trap in the wind, am I right?
you going to start and finance a formal investigation?
or are you going to go to a alternative self help website and log in under conspiracy thread?
action has spoken.


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## paraquack

Makes for great story telling around the campfire at night.


----------



## sideKahr

People will still debate the cause of 9-11 fifty years from now, just like Jack Kennedy's death. Or the fall of the Roman Empire, for that matter. Not that we should stop. Debate is good, it keeps us sharp.

But let's not lose sight of the reason we come here; we're all preppers. We all desire to survive, and protect those we love. We can all agree on that at least.


----------



## voodoo

Kauboy said:


> Not sure what you have left to wait for.
> All of your regurgitated idiocy was responded to in a link provided by our dear Slippy: Slippy's post on page 3
> 
> Go read that entire site.
> You won't, and you'll continue to make an ass of yourself, but at least this is giving you another chance.


LOL you are linking a site which repeats Larry Silverstein's explanation that when he said "so we pulled it, and we watched the building collapse," he meant they pulled out the firefighters. But the firefighers had been pulled out many hours before. New York Times:



> By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from it for safety reasons.


WTC7 collapsed at 5:30. Not to mention there are not many ways to interpret "so we pulled *it, and we watched the building collapse."* If he meant firefighters he would have said "so we pulled *them.*" But never underestimate the things official story defenders are willing to overlook.

The better question is, why would someone take so much trouble to put these obviously false and deceptive websites, whose arguments can be seen through with just a little effort, like I just showed you? Because they have something to hide. Mass murder is serious. If it was just some crazy nutballs spouting obviously false theories about 9/11, they wouldn't bother. They would leave them alone. If you have committed mass murder, you had better have a serious cover-up and disinformation operation going, to which you seem to have fallen victim.

Moreover, saying "go read this website" is not a debunk. I asked a specific question. How do you refute the argument that none of the three buildings could have fallen at free-fall acceleration unless they had been demolished? Go ahead and take another dodge which doesn't answer the direct question, in your own words if you are capable of it. The official story is for the scientificly ignorant who cannot reason for themselves, and you fit into this catagory. Here it is again. It is a straightforward argument: nothing can accelerate to the ground unless it has been cut to pieces beforehand, even split seconds beforehand, which is what a demolition is. Something does not go faster and faster because it gets "heavier and heavier."


----------



## gambit

why dose this thread reminds me of george romero's night of the living dead movies or AMC the walking dead ?
it just keeps reminding me of them , tell me I am not the only one here


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## I'd_last_a_day

gambit said:


> why dose this thread reminds me of george romero's night of the living dead movies or AMC the walking dead ?
> it just keeps reminding me of them , tell me I am not the only one here


Because Kauboy still hasn't learned to aim for the head he keeps taking body shots at Voodoo lol, considering the fact that i'm usually drunk when i post i'm enjoying the level of anger in here haha...or wait a minute, maybe it's just that i'm usually drunk when i'm awake?? Oh sh1t do i have a problem lol


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## gambit

I have a new theory 
ok think about this
before 9-11 was the US having all kinds of issues already?
so what if soon after 9-11 happen some one in higher power said, hey we can use this put out off kinds of conspiracy theories and crap so people will be more distracted for the failing economy and what not and at the same time oil tycoons can make extra money 
in a way this makes more sense then half the stuff people will buy what they read or hear
on a side note ,
KRAZY GAMBIT has a deal for you! I am selling super mega ultimate fertilizer for a low price $300 for 1/2 pound and if you purchase now I will throw in anther 1/2 pound with corn , supplies are limited

beside aliens from mars did it DUH


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## jim-henscheli

why do people assume that if explosives were usd as a supplement to tbe planes, the goverment is involved en masse? these terrorist are smart, crazy, but smart. tbe planes pull the heart strings, and garner media attention, the explosives really brought the towers down.


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## Slippy

sideKahr said:


> ...just like Jack Kennedy's death....


SHUT THE F---RONT DOOR! JACK KENNEDY IS DEAD?

(Nobody tells me anything... :miserable


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## Medic33

so far on this thread the best post is --hogrider -got to love Richard Simmons and the gay post poster.
to the ones who says our GOV is responsible so me with out a doubt positive proof they did it -none of this my friends second uncles cousins grandma has a friend who says Larry retard on nbc news says it's true bullcrud.
and please stop post the same lame videos over and over again that tells me you got nothing.
here is a fact you get more flys with honey than salt BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT flys love chit ,that's a fact.


----------



## csi-tech

Believe whatever you like. Mohammed Atta and a group of dedicated terrorists selected aircraft based on low passenger counts with high fuel stores. They attacked the aircrew with box cutters and flew two aircraft into the WTC, one into a field in Shanksville, PA. and one into the Pentagon. This is the official account and there is no proof to the contrary. There is conjecture and intriguing coincidence but nothing in the way of proof. Everyone has a different reality and some have seen proof for what others only imagine. The last thing I would do is cast aspersions. Your reality is just a little different.


----------



## Ellipsis

voodoo said:


> Really curious as to how the prepper movement in general stands on 9/11 truth. It would seem that of all people, preppers understand that the government or parts of it are perfectly capable of inducing mass disaster like economic collapse, that's part of why we became preppers. So why not 9/11 to fulfill a political agenda (get us into Middle East wars?) The preppers I talk to are aware and awake and have no problem talking about 9/11, in fact maybe realizing the depth of the corruption involved in 9/11 was one reason I became a prepper.
> 
> If these people can do that they can do anything.
> 
> PS Preppers and truthers should get to know each other, they will be two of the first groups of people to get rounded up if fascism comes down, imagine a lot of overlap. Comment like either "inside job 100%" or "NIST explained it" could suffice.
> 
> *How to Convince Someone of 9/11 Truth*


I have nothing kind to say about truthers except they're very imaginative


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## LONE WOLF

Couple things here.... Does everyone believe an aluminum plane can cut through steel I beams like hot butter with no debris falling off? Also does everyone believe that with four planes down not one plane part was found. Look at some real footage of plane crashes and look at the debris. Come on really!!


----------



## hawgrider

Medic33 said:


> so mr voodoo,
> WTF are you going to do about it?
> nothing except flap your trap in the wind, am I right?
> you going to start and finance a formal investigation?
> or are you going to go to a alternative self help website and log in under conspiracy thread?
> action has spoken.


No kidding! Likes to hear themselves talk smack. I couldn't bear to read most of the gibberish.

"Monty pythons complete waste of time"


----------



## Real Old Man

LONE WOLF said:


> Couple things here.... Does everyone believe an aluminum plane can cut through steel I beams like hot butter with no debris falling off? Also does everyone believe that with four planes down not one plane part was found. Look at some real footage of plane crashes and look at the debris. Come on really!!


you are as loopy as Voodo. My boss watched in horror from I 395 the plane that crashed into the pentagon. Also are the videos of the planes before impacting into the WTC all fake. Perhaps if you two laid off the kool aid you could see things in a more rational manner


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## LONE WOLF

Real old man I just use common sense and am able to see things for what they are.


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## Kauboy

voodoo said:


> LOL you are linking a site which repeats Larry Silverstein's explanation that when he said "so we pulled it, and we watched the building collapse," he meant they pulled out the firefighters. But the firefighers had been pulled out many hours before. New York Times:
> 
> WTC7 collapsed at 5:30. Not to mention there are not many ways to interpret "so we pulled *it, and we watched the building collapse."* If he meant firefighters he would have said "so we pulled *them.*" But never underestimate the things official story defenders are willing to overlook.
> 
> The better question is, why would someone take so much trouble to put these obviously false and deceptive websites, whose arguments can be seen through with just a little effort, like I just showed you? Because they have something to hide. Mass murder is serious. If it was just some crazy nutballs spouting obviously false theories about 9/11, they wouldn't bother. They would leave them alone. If you have committed mass murder, you had better have a serious cover-up and disinformation operation going, to which you seem to have fallen victim.
> 
> Moreover, saying "go read this website" is not a debunk. I asked a specific question. How do you refute the argument that none of the three buildings could have fallen at free-fall acceleration unless they had been demolished? Go ahead and take another dodge which doesn't answer the direct question, in your own words if you are capable of it. The official story is for the scientificly ignorant who cannot reason for themselves, and you fit into this catagory. Here it is again. It is a straightforward argument: nothing can accelerate to the ground unless it has been cut to pieces beforehand, even split seconds beforehand, which is what a demolition is. Something does not go faster and faster because it gets "heavier and heavier."


Again, you didn't even read it.
The "pulled it" comment was fully and completely explained, AND SHOWN, to mean that they would attach cables to the potentially hazardous walls, and pull them over into the rubble to mitigate the danger of their random collapse.
It had nothing to do with firefighters or detonations.
Geez, you're an idiot.
And stop with the videos. They add ZERO credibility to anything you say, and nobody is watching them.


----------



## Kauboy

LONE WOLF said:


> Real old man I just use common sense and am able to see things for what they are.


You are aware that every major news organization in the country had choppers in the air circling the first tower after the initial hit, and ALL OF THEM captured the second plane hit the second tower, right?
Also, a documentary crew was following around some people that morning, and happened to record the first PLANE hitting the first tower.
Then there's the countless witnesses that all reported the same thing.

Seriously, you claim common sense, but I'm not so sure about it.


----------



## LONE WOLF

Kauboy said:


> You are aware that every major news organization in the country had choppers in the air circling the first tower after the initial hit, and ALL OF THEM captured the second plane hit the second tower, right?
> Also, a documentary crew was following around some people that morning, and happened to record the first PLANE hitting the first tower.
> Then there's the countless witnesses that all reported the same thing.
> 
> Seriously, you claim common sense, but I'm not so sure about it.


No need in getting all worked up about it. Just don't believe everything you see or hear on ABC news. 4 airplanes and 0 wreckage.....vanished into thin air! now tell me about common sense.


----------



## Kauboy

LONE WOLF said:


> No need in getting all worked up about it. Just don't believe everything you see or hear on ABC news. 4 airplanes and 0 wreckage.....vanished into thin air! now tell me about common sense.


Zero wreckage?
Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - The Planes
A chunk of the fuselage with passenger windows from Flight 175 that hit the south tower...
Read the rest. There's also wreckage at the Pentagon.

Honestly, I'm not sure where folks get this stuff...


----------



## Real Old Man

LONE WOLF said:


> Real old man I just use common sense and am able to see things for what they are.


not 5 minutes of work to locate:

9-11 Research: Engine Parts


----------



## LONE WOLF

Real Old Man said:


> not 5 minutes of work to locate:
> 
> 9-11 Research: Engine Parts


I have no need to argue with anyone about it. I just posted my opinion that's all.


----------



## Kauboy

LONE WOLF said:


> I have no need to argue with anyone about it. I just posted my opinion that's all.


You asked questions. You received answers.
Proper debate protocol was followed.
Good show all!


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## LONE WOLF

View attachment 14274

If those aluminum planes cant shoot straight through concrete and steel beams at the WTC. Then a aluminum plane should have went through the pentagon and flew away.


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## LONE WOLF

View attachment 14275


I make my point.
Nice show all.
Does this really look like a commercial aircraft crash site lol..


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## gambit

already said what I believe and it was what real facts everything from human bodies that burn to help aid the fire to and the shockwave/ vibration made by the amount of people running for their lives
I like playing detective but I am NOT a detective 
I enjoy conspiracy theories only because I will like to see if a simple minded perverted uneducated wacko such as myself can bunk or debunk other conspiracy theorist from what information that I can whip up on a fly , 
keep your mind open and you can gather more information , but most of the theorist are so damn closed mined to fact truth that they forget half the people they get the info from are selling it and making profit with the holes in it then my underwear 
"your mama has so many holes in her underwear she don't know which one to use to put her legs in" had to do a mama joke 
the fact is we was attacked by goat ****er! nothing more nothing less
note plz if the government THE GOVERNMENT has unlimited power and if they really wanted to the hide any truth they can do it. they just have any one who even fart killed or kill some one then tell them they are next so SHUT THE MOUTH its that simple
the only conspiracy is how the hell am I smarter then some of the truthers '" note a lot of truthers are going to collage or finished it and they will be the future of America ' we are ####!
alex jones going to say his dog got loose and ran into the street then got hit by a car and dies , from there he yell I was speaking mega death and they wanted to send me a message to shut up but I wont! all because he forgot to close his gate!
hell some of these people will fart and said it was the government telling them that they can blow them up if they to at anytime , even thou the last night they ate 2 cans of baked beans they wont accept it
again we was attacked by a group of people who get turned on by goats sheep and donkeys!! its that simple
and if it was not a bunch of inbreeding child /women rapist then it was the lizardmen I keep warring everybody about!
back to the kiddie pool of shame


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## gambit

my friend mister lone wolf 




add enough speed force and any other math stuff and even water can cut steel or stone
now only if I was witty enough to make a break wind joke here


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## LONE WOLF

Gambit are you saying the two planes that went all the way through the twin towers were water jets and the one that scratched the pentagon was a standard jet. What kind was the one in PA?


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## Real Old Man

LONE WOLF said:


> View attachment 14275
> 
> 
> I make my point.
> Nice show all.
> Does this really look like a commercial aircraft crash site lol..


Actually it looks not unlike one we got called to assist on when I was still in Korea. An F-16 pilot got misoriented as to which way was up and pounded it into the ground at about 800 knots.

When the recovery crew got there there was only a very small hole in the rice paddy. When they shone a light into it the found the ass end of the plane.


----------



## gambit

LONE WOLF said:


> Gambit are you saying the two planes that went all the way through the twin towers were water jets and the one that scratched the pentagon was a standard jet. What kind was the one in PA?


my friend add force to anything it can do a lot of damage how many pictures of plastic toys they font ledge into tree or even cars after a tornado ? few 
the difference between pentagon and the towers are
the towers are made to withstand powerful wind
pentagon was made to withstand pretty much more then a winds earthquakes a fart from the man across the room, and for the videos a security like specialist said something about lack of them I don't recall what he said but at the time I heard it I kind of agreed with what he was saying 
the PA one from what information I can get is that it made hole when it the ground they found pieces all over and I cant really look into that much for personal reasons, so I cant give any explanation so I willing to take hits from the other side


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## Kauboy

LONE WOLF said:


> View attachment 14274
> 
> If those aluminum planes cant shoot straight through concrete and steel beams at the WTC. Then a aluminum plane should have went through the pentagon and flew away.


I'm not sure you know what a reinforced defense structure is built from, but it isn't standard commercial grade material.



LONE WOLF said:


> View attachment 14275
> 
> I make my point.
> Nice show all.
> Does this really look like a commercial aircraft crash site lol..


Nope, because that's a cropped photo from a horizontal angle to the impact crater taken a day or two after cleanup had started.
But these sure as hell do:




































Plus, the debris scattered into the treeline from the blast and the recovery of the mangled cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder.

Also, notice the image with the dozer digging out the plane.
You don't seem to realize the forces at work when a 100 ton object made from aluminum smashes into a mostly immovable object at 800+ miles per hour. (think "hollow bullet meets steel plate" and think about how many intact pieces of the bullet you'll recover afterwards)
This plane didn't only get obliterated upon impact, it buried itself into the soil during the process, and kicked up significant amounts of dirt that resettled on top.

Sorry for the images and links. There's a 5 attachment limit per post, so I had to switch it up a bit.


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## LONE WOLF

Kauboy thanks for the pictures I have never seen them. Now that is what I wanted to see!


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## voodoo

jim-henscheli said:


> why do people assume that if explosives were usd as a supplement to tbe planes, the goverment is involved en masse? these terrorist are smart, crazy, but smart. tbe planes pull the heart strings, and garner media attention, the explosives really brought the towers down.


And how are the perps supposed to gain access to the towers and WTC complex without security badges and foremen all over the place and asking what they were doing? How do they get the floor plans, the blueprints to know exactly where to place?

You'd need to get into the elevator shafts to get at the core beams, and have free run of the complex 24/7 getting trucks and pallets in and out. *Oh looky looky, GUESS WHO HAD EXACTLY THAT? MARVIN BUSH, THE LITTLE BROTHER, AS A DIRECTOR OF SECURACON THE SECURITY CONTRACTOR! *

Marvin Bush


> *October 1996: Security Firm with Connections to Bush Family Acquires Security Contract for World Trade Center*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marvin Bush. _[Source: Eric Draper / White House]_A security company called Stratesec acquires an $8.3 million contract to help provide security at the World Trade Center. It is one of numerous contractors hired in the upgrade of security at the WTC following the 1993 bombing. Stratesec, which was formerly called Securacom, is responsible for installing the "security-description plan"-the layout of the electronic security system-at the World Trade Center.* It has a "completion contract" to provide some of the center's security "up to the day the buildings fell down," according to Barry McDaniel, its CEO. *
> 
> Involved with Airport Security - Another of Stratesec's biggest security contracts, between 1995 and 1998, is with the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority, providing electronic security for Reagan National Airport and Dulles International Airport. Its work includes maintaining the airfield access systems, the CCTV (closed circuit television) systems, and the electronic badging systems. American Airlines Flight 77-one of the planes hijacked on 9/11-takes off from Dulles.
> 
> Directors Include Bush Family Member - Marvin P. Bush, the youngest brother of future President George W. Bush, is a director at Stratesec from 1993 to June 2000, when most of its work on these big projects is done. Wirt D. Walker III, a distant relative of George W. Bush, is chairman of the board at Stratesec from 1992, and its CEO from 1999 until January 2002. Another of Stratesec's directors, from 1991 to 2001, is Mishal Yousef Saud Al Sabah, who is a member of the Kuwaiti royal family. Al Sabah is also chairman of an investment company called the Kuwait-American Corporation (KuwAm), which, between 1993 and 1999, holds a large, often controlling share of Stratesec. In 1996, it owns 90 percent of the company; by 1999 it owns 47 percent.


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## I'd_last_a_day

There must be different levels of 'Truthers' because i was never even aware of arguments that planes never hit the WTCs (no clue how anyone can argue that)...nor was i aware of arguments that Mohammed Atta and a group of dedicated terrorists were NOT involved, as i stated before i thought most Truther theories were based on the Gov turning a blind eye towards Mohammed Atta and a group of dedicated terrorists. Interesting that someone said they knew somebody who watched in horror as a plane struck the Pentagon...thank you for the specific reply to 1 of my 2 specific perplexing questions (for those who don't want to read 8,000 posts my 2 brain teaser questions were no video footage of a plane closing in on the Pentagon, and the BBC anouncing building #7 collapsed before it collapsed). 

By the way guys i'm really disappointed, someone really needs to go to 'Troll' school haha you should have somewhere along the line added in how angry u are about the Sandy Hook hoax...you really need to learn to maximize your troll skills lol...i kept waiting for it that would have been priceless lol


----------



## A Watchman

One of my favorite thing to do is get on PF and watch the occasional pissing contests. Unfortunately, instead of a winner being declared the contestants usually just end up pissing on each other.

Yes their are videos discounting the actual planes as alleged being involved, even some alleging holograms throwing up false visuals. I am not going to search for them and post them. Pick your theory or belief, and a video likely exists. Exactly what happened, I am not sure? Here is what I do know in a short summary.

911
Fear mongering
The passage of the Patriot Act and one of the most intrusive legislations ever.
The exchange of liberty and freedoms for alleged security in the US.
Terrorism becomes relevant to US citizens.
The next steps in a progressive and on going agenda..........


----------



## Medic33

my question is how old were you twurps when this happened?
you don't remember anything or your weren't born yet or something? if planes can't penetrate a concrete and steel building then how the hell does a lead bullet penetrate a steel car door?
also you do know the planes had fuel in them? I have heard that stuff is kind of explosive. 
show me evidence real evidence -concrete evidence to support you position -you can not win a blind argument without it-and before you try to reverse the tables and tell me to prove my point I am not the one trying to convince people to sway to my belief.


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## voodoo

A Watchman said:


> Here is what I do know in a short summary.
> 
> 911
> Fear mongering
> The passage of the Patriot Act and one of the most intrusive legislations ever.
> The exchange of liberty and freedoms for alleged security in the US.
> Terrorism becomes relevant to US citizens.
> The next steps in a progressive and on going agenda..........


It sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on it, why aren't you a truther? Don't these elements put together spell something for you? Sheesh next thing you know truthers will be saying they can now round us up and send us to military prison without trial, because of 9/11...oh wait...NDAA.


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## A Watchman

^^^^^^^^^


Voodoo,

I can guarantee you I have a pretty good handle on the events both past and present, inclusive of the lies, deceit, and an ongoing agenda, as I have stated here many, many times....I have been watching and researching for 30 years. You ask why am I not a Truther ? I had to google it to get the definition of your label, to tell you the truth. Here is my only label, I am a Watchman, and no jest nor pun intended.

Let me also add, I have no agenda and my worldview is not driven by any single event or theory.


----------



## voodoo

A Watchman said:


> ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Voodoo,
> 
> I can guarantee you I have a pretty good handle on the events both past and present, inclusive of the lies, deceit, and an ongoing agenda, as I have stated here many, many times....I have been watching and researching for 30 years. You ask why am I not a Truther ? I had to google it to get the definition of your label, to tell you the truth. Here is my only label, I am a Watchman, and no jest nor pun intended.
> 
> Let me also add, I have no agenda and my worldview is not driven by any single event or theory.


good nuff. When the Founding fathers said the price of liberty is eternal vigilance, shenanigans like 9/11 are exactly what they had in mind. They trusted the government about as far as they could throw it.


----------



## voodoo

I'd_last_a_day said:


> There must be different levels of 'Truthers' because i was never even aware of arguments that planes never hit the WTCs (no clue how anyone can argue that)...nor was i aware of arguments that Mohammed Atta and a group of dedicated terrorists were NOT involved, as i stated before i thought most Truther theories were based on the Gov turning a blind eye towards Mohammed Atta and a group of dedicated terrorists. Interesting that someone said they knew somebody who watched in horror as a plane struck the Pentagon...thank you for the specific reply to 1 of my 2 specific perplexing questions (for those who don't want to read 8,000 posts my 2 brain teaser questions were no video footage of a plane closing in on the Pentagon, and the BBC anouncing building #7 collapsed before it collapsed).
> 
> By the way guys i'm really disappointed, someone really needs to go to 'Troll' school haha you should have somewhere along the line added in how angry u are about the Sandy Hook hoax...you really need to learn to maximize your troll skills lol...i kept waiting for it that would have been priceless lol


There are no serious truthers who say no planes hit the towers, if they do they are either crazy or they are part of the disinfo operation. You always want to confuse legitimate questions with out in left field nonsense. That way when people hear "truther" they dismiss it. Obviously planes hit the buildings. Obviously the coup faction got the patsies - hijackers - through. It's easy to plant 19 dumb kids on planes with a promise they were on a "secret mission."

What serious truthers are saying is that the official explanation for how the towers came down violates the laws of physics, plain and simple. Not one of the deniers here has even tried to rebut the basic video, only a lot of doding with sarcastic remarks and insisting that everything has already been "debunked." So debunk this.* How does a tower accelerate toward the ground unless it has been cut to pieces? It cannot, because resistance would prevent any top pieces from accelerating. It could not "go faster and faster" because it got "heavier and heavier" from the floors accumulating. That is what Galileo proved wrong.*

Look at the picture. Common sense tells you the block on the right reaches the ground first, even if the left lower block is made out of clay. That is physical reality. On 9/11 the magical physical reality became that the block on the left and the one on the right reached the ground at the same time, within a few seconds. 









In the case of 9/11 the left block was not clay, but 96,000 tons of solid steel frame, not even dented by a plane hit, with the few fires cold and going out. Some of those vertical supports, which all ran from ground to tippy top, were nearly five feet wide.










*Suddenly the frames are cut to pieces and laying on the ground two footballs fields away from the nearest tower basement. *

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101031312/wtc.html









You can even see the steel beams getting cut and flung out like toothpicks in some views:






You can hear the demo charges going off, with the laughable explanation that this is floors hitting each other. People in the military know what an explosion sounds like, it has a deep signature boom:






*Now you've got all this, plus Dick Cheney sitting in the command bunker making sure nothing stops Flight 77, or whatever it was, from hitting the Pentagon. Sec. of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the command bunker and told the 9/11 Commission:*

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States


> [Mineta]: There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"


It is a simple matter to deduce that the "standing order" was a no-shoot order, because the plane did not get shot down. Right there Cheney could be tried on treason. And after him you could go after Rumsfeld who couldn't be found for 20 minutes, that's the Secretary of Defense in the biggest attack on American soil in history, and he winds up on the lawn of the Pentagon taking photo ops instead of directing the nation's defenses at a critical moment. How did he know there weren't ten more attack craft in the air and on the way to their targets? UNLESS HE DID KNOW.

*Round up all the Bushies who were part of Project for a New American Century, which wanted a "new Pearl Harbor" to achieve their goals in the Middle East, and ask them what they know about the controlled demolition of the twin towers.*

Order Cheney's Secret Service detail to arrest him on the spot and drag him to New York to stand trial for mass murder.

Here's another interesting tidbit for you. Companies had for some time before 9/11 been developing technology which would allow the control of airliners to be seized from the ground, in case of hijack, and the planes flown remotely. Guess who invented this technology? Dov Zakheim, CFO of the Pentagon on 9/11, when $2.3 trillion were announced missing, *and another member of Project for a New American Century.
*







> August 2001: Large Passenger Jet Flown and Landed by Remote Control
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Federal Express 727 lands in New Mexico in August 2001. _[Source: Associated Press]_US company Raytheon flies and lands a Federal Express 727 passenger jet six times on a military base in New Mexico, entirely by remote control and without a pilot on board. This is done to test equipment intended to make hijackings difficult, by allowing ground controllers to take over the flying of a hijacked plane.
> 
> http://patriotsquestion911.com/


*

US Military Officers for 9/11 Truth*






Bush administration members of Project for a New American Century:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...ation:_Project_for_t he_New_American_Century

Elliott Abrams Special Assistant to the President.

Richard Armitage Deputy Secretary of State (2001-2005)

John R. Bolton Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs (2001-2005), U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2005-2006)

Dick Cheney Vice President (2001-2009)

Zalmay Khalilzad U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan (11/2003 - 6/2005), U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (6/2005 - 3/2007) U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2007-2009)

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby Chief of Staff to the Vice President of the United States (2001-2005)

Richard Perle Chairman of the Board, Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee (2001-2003)

Peter W. Rodman Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security (2001-2007)

Donald Rumsfeld Secretary of Defense (2001-2006)

Paul Wolfowitz Deputy Secretary of Defense (2001-2005) 10th President of the World Bank (2005-2007)

Dov S. Zakheim Department of Defense Comptroller (2001-2004)


----------



## Kauboy

Voodoo, you reject sound logic and ignore facts. There was no freefall, you moron. You are an idiot that offers nothing of substance and are not welcome here.

Leave.


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## txmarine6531

I love the blurry, grainy pictures. Kinda like all the UFO pictures. And the "close up" videos of the buildings collapsing are just as great, all blurry and grainy. I have yet to see real proof of a demo job.


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## voodoo

Kauboy said:


> Voodoo, you reject sound logic and ignore facts. There was no freefall, you moron. You are an idiot that offers nothing of substance and are not welcome here.
> 
> Leave.


Pick a piece of steel falling along the side of the building and watch the demolition line alongside it, as it keeps pace with the falling steel. This is free-fall. What about this is still puzzling you?


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## Joe Smith

So, you're theory is that the planes were flown remotely from the ground, and the buildings were wired with demo charges? This was all done by GW Bush and his friends so they could have eternal war and sell lots of bullets n bombs?

Do you have your answer to your question, after 13 pages, or are you trying to convince us?


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## voodoo

Joe Smith said:


> So, you're theory is that the planes were flown remotely from the ground, and the buildings were wired with demo charges? This was all done by GW Bush and his friends so they could have eternal war and sell lots of bullets n bombs?
> 
> Do you have your answer to your question, after 13 pages, or are you trying to convince us?


I am trying to convince you. Why are you not convinced? What piece of evidence I have presented is not persuasive?

Hint: no sentence begininng with the words "you are a [fill in the blank here]" is responsive to this question, because it dodges the question and merely characterizes the asker of the question. I really want to know how I am not getting through to you.

- free fall speed, impossible
- field of straight, clean-cut beams across two or three football fields outside the tower footprints
- wtc7, not hit by a plane
-Larry Silverstein, "pull it."
- BBC, said WTC7 had fallen, was standing right behind her, on live TV.
- molten steel
-can see frame being blown out before your eyes in videos
-explosions

I have backed each one off these with mainstream media links. What are you not getting?

Better yet let's do this another way. Here is the documentary by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Watch it and tell me you are still convinced of the official story.


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## Kauboy

You are not "getting through" because we are able to use sound logic in our understanding of events, and you are not.

- free fall speed, impossible (debunked)
- field of straight, clean-cut beams across two or three football fields outside the tower footprints (not even sure what the hell this is... nobody carried beams anywhere and thermite wasn't used)
- wtc7, not hit by a plane (debunked)
- Larry Silverstein, "pull it." (debunked)
- BBC, said WTC7 had fallen, was standing right behind her, on live TV. (debunked)
- molten steel (debunked)
- can see frame being blown out before your eyes in videos (debunked)
- explosions (debunked)

Civil Engineers stake their claim: Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and controlled demolition - Structural and Civil Engineers against Controlled Demolition
Peer reviewed papers supporting the collapse story: Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - The Paper

Take a trip out of your bubble of idiocy, and read the facts presented. YES, ACTUALLY READ THE PAGES I LINKED. Don't just ignore them because they disagree.
Put your big boy pants on, accept the fact that you've allowed yourself to be duped for far too long, and begin the slow process of rejoining the sane population.

Or, continue to be a moron.
Your choice.

I'm done here.


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## Real Old Man

Kauboy said:


> You are not "getting through" because we are able to use sound logic in our understanding of events, and you are not.
> 
> - free fall speed, impossible (debunked)
> - field of straight, clean-cut beams across two or three football fields outside the tower footprints (not even sure what the hell this is... nobody carried beams anywhere and thermite wasn't used)
> - wtc7, not hit by a plane (debunked)
> - Larry Silverstein, "pull it." (debunked)
> - BBC, said WTC7 had fallen, was standing right behind her, on live TV. (debunked)
> - molten steel (debunked)
> - can see frame being blown out before your eyes in videos (debunked)
> - explosions (debunked)
> 
> Take a trip out of your bubble of idiocy, and read the facts presented. YES, ACTUALLY READ THE PAGES I LINKED. Don't just ignore them because they disagree.
> Put your big boy pants on, accept the fact that you've allowed yourself to be duped for far too long, and begin the slow process of rejoining the sane population.
> 
> Or, continue to be a moron.
> Your choice.
> 
> I'm done here.


How dare you use logic and science and proof and facts to repudiate a conspiracy theory that just has to be right???????


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## voodoo

Kauboy said:


> You are not "getting through" because we are able to use sound logic in our understanding of events, and you are not.
> 
> - free fall speed, impossible (debunked)


This "debunk" arrives at 13 or 14 seconds for the demolition line to accelerate toward the ground. But ANY acceleration to the ground through intact steel frame is impossible, in the place we call Earth with Earth gravity, It doesn't matter if it is 10 seconds or 13, and the difference is mostly due to the dust cloud making a clear view of when the last piece hit impossible.

What you are not understanding is that it is impossible for any mass, like the top floors of a building, to accelerate through a structure made of solid steel, with solid joints and cross-bracing, as if it were thin air. The mass getting "heavier and heavier" would not make it go "faster and faster." All objects regardless of weight fall to earth through air at the same speed, which is the acceleration of 10 meters/sec.^2.

You can prove to yourself that this is true here:






The car is MUCH heavier than the tire, right? A couple tons vs. maybe 20 pounds most? So why doesn't it hit the ground first? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH SOMETHING WEIGHS, IT FALLS TO THE GROUND AT EXACTLY THE SAME SPEED AS SOMETHING LIGHT. NOTHING CAN ACCELERATE TO THE GROUND UNLESS IT IS THROUGH THIN AIR.

There is no such thing as something going faster and faster because it got "heavier and heavier." They are literally taking you back to pre-Galileo. When a falling object meets resistance it has to slow, how much depends on how strong the resistance is. The towers and WTC7 were not tissue paper.

But what is truly amazing is your ability deny when you can see, right before your very eyes, *the building being blown apart, with pieces of frame hurtled like cannon balls across hundreds of feet. Each of the spinning toothpick-like objects below is a two to four foot wide piece of multi-ton steel beam, tossed out like they weighed nothing.* They could come up with video showing the demo charges being planted and you'd still say they were doing routine maintenance work. You need to believe what you believe so badly that you will trick yourself like I never could. Your heart needs to believe that elements within your government could never do something so truly evil, so your eyes deny what you can clearly see.






Will deal with the rest of your nonsense later.

The Big Lie


> ...the broad masses of a nation...more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, -Adolf Hitler


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## gambit

I am just going to put this out there because at this time this video makes more sense then this thread that is some how still alive
so being said , KILL IT WITH FIRE!!





watch part 2 if you dare but beware you might take a look inside my mind and lose what sanity


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## Slippy

OK voodoo,

Its time we all came clean. It was the best party prank EVER! 

We, the members of the Prepper Forum, all were drinking beer shootin' the crap back in August 2001. We were kinda bored and wanted to play a trick on somebody, anybody. Of course we knew voodoo would be gullible (we've seen the boy try and play some pickup basketball and damn!, he looks like the freakin' Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz), so we figured he wasn't too, you know, right in the head...So we staged 9/11 just to mess him.

It worked. 

Time to pay up. Who owes me a dollar?


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## Kauboy

Seriously Denton, can we ban this imbecile already?


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## Will2

voodoo said:


> Only some FBI agents were given access to the steel, not trained in metallurgy, science, physics, and engineering.


Absolute lie.
You are a liar or a dupe. Just stop posting until you actually know what you are talking about.

The Role of Metallurgy in the NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Towers Collapse

The WTC buildings were probably some of the most analyzed structures on the planet.

Stop posting if you are going to lie to people. I hate liars.


> The Recovery Effort and the Structural Steel Elements
> During the recovery effort after September 11, and before NIST began its collapse investigation, volunteers from FEMA, ASCE, NIST, the National Science Foundation (NSF), and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY) worked at the four steel recycling facilities to identify and collect steel members important to the investigation. They focused on identifying pieces that the aircraft struck or were obviously burned, as well as pieces from the fire and impact zone. The National Institute of Standards and Technology arranged to have these pieces shipped to its facility in Gaithersburg, Maryland. The National Institute of Standards and Technology investigation team members cataloged the items and attempted to identify their original locations in the towers, using their dimensions and markings.
> 
> In all, NIST cataloged 236 structural steel elements:
> 
> Ninety exterior column panels, of which 42 were unambiguously identified. Of those identified, 26 came from the fire and impact floors, and four of these had been struck by the airplane that hit WTC 1.
> Fifty-five core columns, of which 12 were unambiguously identified. Four of the identified columns came from the fire and impact zones.
> Twenty-three pieces of floor truss. Unfortunately, these elements had no identifying marks, so their original location in the towers is unknown.
> Twenty-five pieces of the channel that supported the floor trusses at the core; all are of unknown location.
> Forty-three miscellaneous pieces including bolts, pieces of aluminum facade, and elements from WTC 5.


Also learn about pulsed acceleration and momentum. Free fall is not the only force to influence descent speed.


> Terminal velocity in the maximum velocity something can fall based upon the weight of the object and the amount of resistance/drag and buoyancy it gives due to its shape *without any type of power or acceleration.* So if force is applied it will go faster.


What falls faster, a baseball or a baseball that is hit with a bat?

Learn physics and stop posting lies.

there were some definate kinetic forces as well as vibrational and other forces going on these. Free fall was not in effect, and never would be in a collapse where the building is taking itself down due to weight of upper floors falling on lower ones.

Regardless of whether thermite in the basement severed the cores or the vibration of a jet slamming into the building transfered vibrational energy that superheated the cores or WTC 7 was a CIA facility was rigged to be destructable in cases that top secret security was compramised. we don't know this and never will, what is important is that we know it happened, we will never know why it happened, as anyone can create a narrative. All we know is that if it was caused by people in the planes then they are dead, and you can't get a more severe punishment in the us than capitol punishment.

It was 15 years ago, can you not just understand that until time travel exists there is abolutely no way history will be changed.


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## Kauboy

I'm not sure I've ever "Liked" one of Will's post.
There's a first time for everything!


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## Maine-Marine

LONE WOLF said:


> Gambit are you saying the two planes that went all the way through the twin towers were water jets and the one that *scratched the pentagon* was a standard jet. What kind was the one in PA?


125 people DIED at the pentagon... and frankly if we were having this conversation in person - there is a chance that somebody would have to stop me from dragging your ass up to a tall building and tossing you off

you are the enemy.. why..because you refuse to see the truth... if I was in charge I would ban you from this site for 12 months

EDIT - xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx x x x xxx xxx

EDIT EDIT - Sorry I called you a Douche bag


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## voodoo

Will2 said:


> Absolute lie.
> You are a liar or a dupe. Just stop posting until you actually know what you are talking about.
> 
> The Role of Metallurgy in the NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Towers Collapse
> 
> The WTC buildings were probably some of the most analyzed structures on the planet.


From your own link:


> Although many of the individual recovered elements are rather large, the collection represents less than 0.5 % of the more than 200,000 tons of steel used in the buildings.


Again, at a crime scene, especially one as extraordinary and unprecedented as this, every bit of evidence would be preserved for extensive, unhurried analysis by scientists and experts from around the world, who would have come to the conclusion that the steel was cut, just like you see it being cut in this footage and just as you see it laying on the ground right afterwards. No amount of your frothing at the mouth changes that.






https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101031312/wtc.html









Every bit of evidence tells a story, and destroying 99.5% of it is feloiny destruction of evidence, pure and simple. If there is one way to start prosecuting the real perps, it is to put Rudy Giuliani on the stand, since the contracts to remove the evidence were signed under his authority as mayor of NY. We could start by asking him who ordered him to destroy the steel. That is how you unravel a mafia, put the low scumbags on the stand and make them lead you to the higher ups. I bet one of the first words out of his mouth would be "Cheney."

It wouldn't surprise me if someone as pig-headed as you would put your qualifications above those of fire science professors like the one below who was begging Giuliani to stop destroying evidence. Read more on evidence destruction 9-11 Research: Evidence Destruction

9-11 Research: WTC Steel Removal


> Four salvage yards were contracted to process the steel.
> 
> Hugo Nue Schnitzer at Fresh Kills (FK) Landfill, Staten Island, NJ
> Hugo Nue Schnitzer's Claremont (CM) Terminal in Jersey City, NJ
> Metal Management in Newark (NW), NJ
> Blanford and Co. in Keasbey (KB), NJ
> 
> FEMA's BPAT, who wrote the WTC Building Performance Study, were not given access to Ground Zero. Apparently, they were not even allowed to collect steel samples from the salvage yards. According to Appendix D of the Study...









Will2 said:


> What falls faster, a baseball or a baseball that is hit with a bat?
> 
> Learn physics and stop posting lies.


Now you are really showing your abysmal ignorance. So what is the bat that is pushing the mass downwards besides gravity?



Will2 said:


> there were some definate kinetic forces as well as vibrational and other forces going on these.


LOL. You sound like Archie Bunker trying to talk physics.



Will2 said:


> It was 15 years ago, can you not just understand that until time travel exists there is abolutely no way history will be changed.


History is changed all the time. Look at Egypt before Tahrir Square when it looked liked Mubaraek was untouchable. Now you have more and more congressmen calling for the release of the "28 pages" of the 9/11 report which seems to pin some of the blame on Saudi Arabia, probably for helping line up the hijacker patsies. Pulling on any thread at all will make the whole ball of yarn unravel.






You have well-known news figures like former Fox News anchor Ben Swann going full blown 9/11 truth, listen to him here, *he reports there are now more people who doubt the official story (42%) than who believe it (40%.)*






And Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth ALWAYS, ALWAYS raises the funds from ordinary people to finance its campaigns, like these billboards in major cities like this one in Dallas. Their are many people out there who care passionately about 9/11, they're just not telling you who they are:

Highway billboard in Dallas









Fear not, history is full of instances where previously high up, untouchable figures have had their comeuppance, not always but sometimes. Awareness of the truth will reach a critical mass then nothing can put the genie back in the bottle. Maybe that's why the Bushes have already bought 300,000 acres in Paraguay, in case it gets a little to hot in the U.S.

Why Did George Bush Buy Nearly 300,000 acres in Paraguay?

*High-Ranking US Military Officers for 9/11 truth *


> "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story ... of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It's impossible. " - Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) - Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions, *High-Ranking US Military Officers for 9/11 truth *


Does history change?

Mubarak then









Mubarak now LOL









Mussolini then









Mussolini now LOL


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## BuckB

Voodoo -

Boy is today your lucky day! Buck Bored is the name, physics instruction is the game! It just so happens I have a company that sells physics instruction. I have some of the best physics instructors that know all about things like vectors, quarks and EMCs. (That is insider talk for physics things.)

Feel free to give me a call to set up your physics education and take you career to the next level! I even have people that can work out government grant money so you won't have to finance it all yourself. Just send $1000 to reserve your spot before they all fill up.

Buck Bored

1-800-EMC-STUFF


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## voodoo

BuckB said:


> Voodoo -
> 
> Boy is today your lucky day! Buck Bored is the name, physics instruction is the game! It just so happens I have a company that sells physics instruction. I have some of the best physics instructors that know all about things like vectors, quarks and EMCs. (That is insider talk for physics things.)
> 
> Feel free to give me a call to set up your physics education and take you career to the next level! I even have people that can work out government grant money so you won't have to finance it all yourself. Just send $1000 to reserve your spot before they all fill up.
> 
> Buck Bored
> 
> 1-800-EMC-STUFF


Physics says a mass can only accelerate to the ground through thin air. You have yet to prove otherwise. But moving on, how about all the hundreds of reports and evidence of explosives? One great way to be able to say no evidence of explosives was found is to never test for explosives at Ground Zero. NIST never tested for explosives. NIST says:

FAQs - NIST WTC 7 Investigation


> 13. Q: Did investigators consider the possibility that an explosion caused or contributed to the collapse of WTC 7?
> 
> A: Yes, this possibility was investigated carefully. NIST concluded that blast events inside the building did not occur and found no evidence supporting the existence of a blast event.


So despite hundreds even thousands of different eyewitness/video/sound evidence of many, many explosions, they never did a single test if only to rule out "conspiracy theories." There are so many things that even taken one at a time would tell anyone the government is lying. Taken all together, you have to be a stark raving lunatic to NOT know it was an inside job.

Even if the government did believe there were no explosions, why would it leave the question open and allow people to believe there may have been a hideous conspiracy, rather than put it to rest with a few simple tests? Answer: they had far more to lose by testing. There is no way they could risk an honest expert saying "the ######s were blown up." Anyone else please add your favorite overwhelming evidence of explosions.


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## Prepper News




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## BuckB

voodoo said:


> But moving on, how about all the hundreds of reports and evidence of explosives? One great way to be able to say no evidence of explosives was found is to never test for explosives at Ground Zero. NIST never tested for explosives.


If you want exploding things, today is your lucky day! I just happen to be the owner and sole proprietor of Buck Bored's Fireworks Emporium! I have firecrackers, rockets, sparklers and Roman candles in all shapes and sizes. And although they don't exactly explode, I even have those spinny things you hang from a tree that the Chinese manufacturer calls "Happy Ramp".

I was even trying to import some exploding Muslims because how cool would that be for your 4th of July celebration to blow up your very own Muslim. Unfortunately, the Department of Homeland Security denied my import paperwork. So that one is on hold for now.

But let me know what you need because, as the say, I put the "boom" in "boom chug-a-lug-a boom chug-a-lug-a".

Buck

1-800-77-KA-POW


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## Prepper News

duplicate post


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## Real Old Man

Voodoo - some of the worst witnesses at any event are so called eye witnesses. None of the fire fighters you show in the video were part of the FDNY Fire Marshal's Office the folks who with ATF and the FBI did the forensic work on the tower site. And just for your information, my old outfit had the dubious chore of assisting with the removal of the debris taking it to a location over on Staten Island - I think - where everything taken from the site was examined not only for forensic information but possible DNA so that all the victims could be identified. 

But hey if you want to think little green men from Mars took the towers down, then I'm sure that we have a room for you in Building 39 at Central State Hospital in Petersburg


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## Real Old Man

Perhaps mr Voodoo you ought to read the actual report compiled by board certified engineers after the towers collapsed. FEMA 403, World Trade Center Building Performance Study (2002) | FEMA.gov Don't let the FEMA web site scare you the wonderful real engineers from ASCE did the actual review and analyses. Most will probably go way over your head, but that's what the low information crowd gets


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## Prepper News

duplicate


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## Real Old Man

You're voodoo's alter ego?

Lord you folks are really out to lunch.


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## Will2

voodoo said:


> From your own link: 0.5% of 200000 tons were analyzed.


 I am sorry is the analysis of the 1000 tons of steel not enough to get an accurate picture of how a few buildings collapsed? Do you expect the analysis of 200000 tons of steel? After seeing a couple airplanes fly into the buildings? Just prior to their collapse to get an idea of what caused the collapse?



> Every bit of evidence tells a story, and destroying 99.5% of it is a feloiny destruction of evidence, pure and simple.


Nah sorry, when investigating a car accident police don't take away the cars and inspect every inch of the vehicles. Your position is wholely false you look for relevant information and use that relevant information as evidence. You don't need to remark on totally insignificant pieces of information nor protect a whole sidewalk when only one area of it was used in a crime.

You don't seem to understand basic forensic evidence practices or crime scene laws.

All that metal didn't provide any new insight, while I would agree some pieces of debris were relevant, as well some things which should have been done were not such as testing for thermite or explosives. I don't think clearing the site to sift through debris or clear bodies was a felony, on the contrary, I think that in clearing the debris they should have determined what was unique and would provide new information, as opposed to wasting time looking through tons of metal that provided new information and delay access to other types of materials, and clearance of bodies for burial.

All in all, though you are wasting your time discussing a cosmic teapot story that is just going to be unprovable anyway, total fantasy. You can't prove anything without evidence. We need to leave this to God to judge. The lack of evidence is not evidence. Why are you wasting your time talking about this. If the official story was not the truth, you will never know the truth, why waste your time and energy building fantasy scenarios on what could have happened. Its not really the place for discussion on real world events. You should take it to the UFO, Mayans etc.. subforum.


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## Denton

There's been a lot of hoopla about how the buildings fell in a manner that would indicate a controlled demolition. Why do I not buy the assertion that it was a controlled demolition?

Some time before 9/11, I was researching asbestos. During that research, the twin towers were mentioned. Because asbestos use was halted partway up the buildings, the designers stated that if a plane struck a twin tower above the asbestos line, the resulting fire would cause them to pancake to the ground under its own weight once the beams melted.

That is exactly what they did.


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