# "Caseless Ammunition"



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I do not think it is if it will ever be, but when it will actually be. The advantages are undeniable and worth the quest for it.



> Caseless: The ammunition designer's holy grail, and the engineer's worst nightmare. It would obsolete the cartridge case overnight, resulting in cheaper, lighter, and more compact ammunition. Weapons would be able to carry 50, 60, or more rounds in slim, inexpensive magazines, and expel them at a rate of fire much higher than current weapons are capable of - not only because the ammunition is lighter and therefore more could be carried to feed such thirsty guns, but because the extraction and ejection cycles of the weapons themselves could be eliminated.


"It'll Never Happen" - Until It Does! Caseless Ammunition, and Looking Back - Brief Thoughts 002 - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

That sure sounds interesting, but what about reloaders?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Caseless ammo has been tried and failed before.

Too many problems in the field.

How do you get it out with a failed ignition?

Biggest problem is obturation, fail to and you have a catastrophic event..

A good example of caseless is the 16" 50 cal. naval rifles.

Daisy tried it in 22 cal about 45 years ago, failed.

The key would be to develop a whole new propellant that could be injection molded.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Dont they call those rockets?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Mag rail or rail gun. It won't be long and gun powder will be obsolete.

Truthfully I think a laser gun will be easier and smaller.

vhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8kZo2xByPY

https://www.engadget.com/2015/10/19/3d-printed-handheld-railgun/


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## Winston Smith (Oct 21, 2017)

Chipper said:


> Mag rail or rail gun. It won't be long and gun powder will be obsolete.
> 
> Truthfully I think a laser gun will be easier and smaller.
> 
> ...


The problem with most energy weapons is that even if you can make them man-portable, you'd need a truck to tote the power supply. 
But I do like the new rail guns the US Navy is testing. Still not practical for bagging Bambi, tho.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

This has been around for years. Military looked at it but had to many issue. Would have been great for weight reduction.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

as stated above from a couple poster the military looked at it found a few applications for it -HK looked at it real hard and made ammo and a rifle both didn't fly to well.
about the only military application I have seen is a remote perimeter security/ambush system it looks like a box( a big box) has the rounds stacked in tubes, uses electronic ignition, and when triggered sets off a volley of about 1000 rounds or something -it senses motion the problem it didn't know friend or foe.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

Chipper said:


> Mag rail or rail gun. It won't be long and gun powder will be obsolete.
> 
> Truthfully I think a laser gun will be easier and smaller.
> 
> ...


nope until they make a power supply that is small enough it is just a dream - they did use them for anti tank and aircraft and even mounted some on a drone the aquilla I think. and even when and if the first lazer gun become standard the AK will still be there and used in large numbers.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> This has been around for years. Military looked at it but had to many issue. Would have been great for weight reduction.


Yes weight reduction, but you well know the total weight would still be up there, you pack horse.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> nope until they make a power supply that is small enough it is just a dream - they did use them for anti tank and aircraft and even mounted some on a drone the aquilla I think. and even when and if the first lazer gun become standard the AK will still be there and used in large numbers.


We need to re-embrace the atomic world for power supplies, for small dense power! Remember pacemakers were at one time powered by a pellet of plutonium...

*Rancher *


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> Yes weight reduction, but you well know the total weight would still be up there, you pack horse.


Yep if we save a few pounds we would then carry more rounds. Weight was a never ending battle is putting out at packing list and making SOP for loads. By the book rifleman carried 210 rounds we know darn well he found some where to pack twice that. Plus he carried ammo for the automatic weapons gunner.
there was a issue with static causing power to ignite in some of the case-less ones.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

A related firearm that actually was.....The 2,000 round per minute hyperburst would certainly be fun.








> In the world of "might-have-been" small arms, a world of .276 Garands and NATO-standard EM-2s, none flew so high nor fell so far as the Heckler & Koch G11 caseless hyperburst assault rifle. Designed to out-match any contemporary small arm in a Cold War shootout across Central Europe, the G11 combined the aesthetics of a scifi plasma rifle with complexity of a Swiss watch. The result was a bullpup caseless wunderwaffe with a 2,000 round per minute hyperburst setting, and a price tag that, as the joke goes, compared unfavorably with reconstructing East Germany.


Meet the G11 Caseless Assault Rifle: Germany's Fallen Might-Have-Been - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Double post.


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