# Clovis people, are we better survivors?



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

One of the first cultures to inhabit America, the Clovis people were unable to survive. They had all the resources of a Virgin America yet the vast multitude of diverse game, fish, and plants where not enough for this small group to survive. Today we only spend a small portion of our time training and preparing for possible survival conditions, the Clovis people spent every moment honing theirs during the most plentiful of times and yet still were unable to make it. How have we managed to surpass the survival skills of the Clovis? Or are we just waiting for an overwhelming natural disaster to wipe US off the face of America? If we haven't surpassed the Clovis's skill, will it just be the shear number of US that saves US from extinction in America?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I believe you know the answer to that.

If most of us were honest about it, we would be a lot more interested in learning a lot more than what we know.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

That's why I try to read all the post I can ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so I can see all sides of the big picture ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I have learned a lot since I have been on this forum ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

The Clovis people DID survive. The American Indian is descended from them.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> The Clovis people DID survive. The American Indian is descended from them.


That's interesting sideKahr, but I haven't read of any DNA Studies that support that. The current theory is that the Clovis people migrated from an area around modern day France, and colonized the area around Chesapeake Bay before expanding westward. If you have any references to pass I would be interested and grateful. Thanks.

PS. The only DNA study I found didn't conform to a logical progression in tool making. The DNA sourced the infant skeleton found in Montana to Siberian origins. The tools fabricated by the Siberians are in sharp conflict with anything resembling Clovis Points.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm no archaeologist, but I thought it was common knowledge that the American Indian descended from the early Clovis people. Yes, the Clovis "culture" (their tool types being the main evidence) seems to have disappeared along with the megafauna at the end of the most recent ice age, but the people survived and interbred with others that possibly arrived via the Bering Straight route. It would be unusual for a people as widely dispersed as they were to die out; they were literally all over the Americas. I think the jury is still out on a lot of the particulars, though (the Solutrean Hypothesis). I haven't studied the field closely; most of what I know comes from visiting the Meadowcroft dig down in Avella, PA.

Waters, Michael; et al. (2007). "Redefining the Age of Clovis: Implications for the Peopling of the Americas". Science (315): 1122–1126. doi:10.1126/Science.1127166.

Sharon Bigley, "Ancient native boy's genome reignites debate over first Americans", Reuters, 12 February 2014


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks sideKahr. Seeing as how the entire DNA sequence of first Americans and their own cultural traditions still vary, it appears as if there may be more than one point of origin, and interbreeding during overlapping route crossings may contribute to each Tribes/Peoples Heritage. Without sparking a larger controversy, perhaps we can just consider the disappearance of those that used Clovis Points.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Are you suggesting that the prehistoric Clovis people migrated from France to North America?

I just looked it up. Damned long walk.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

It is interesting, isn't it. Perhaps the Clovis people didn't need those large points after the disappearance of the mammoths (due to overhunting or an impact event) and just stopped making them as they evolved into following cultures, Folsome? , that used similiar but smaller weapons.

What do you think happened to the Clovis, M118LR?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

About that over hunting, it seems to me that there were allot more people with much more proficient weapons still hunting Bison in America long after the Clovis People were gone. It took a deliberate act of war and huge monetary gain before the American Bison herd was decimated. I have a hard time swallowing that all the Mega fauna suddenly went extinct in mass due to a symbiotic predator. As to what Natural Disaster befell America at that time, perhaps an Air Explosion Tunguska style or a possible impact into the glaciation? Perhaps one of the favorite plants of the Mega fauna evolved a toxin that poisoned them faster than they could respond to with learned behavior? Or like the Neanderthals, supporting your initial statement, maybe the Clovis People just interbreed into another population and became indeterminable.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Nice talking with you. Gotta go.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'm not sure what I just read, or why I read it, but to answer your question...

With the loss of modern production, shipping, and technology, the vast majority of the United States *WILL* die.
My plan is to outlive half of them, build a throne from their skulls, die upon it, and be forever remembered in history when my bones are found atop a mountain of human skulls by the aliens that terraform and repopulate our planet one hundred thousand years from now..

When I go out, I'm goin' out big.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> I'm not sure what I just read, or why I read it, but to answer your question...
> 
> With the loss of modern production, shipping, and technology, the vast majority of the United States *WILL* die.
> My plan is to outlive half of them, build a throne from their skulls, die upon it, and be forever remembered in history when my bones are found atop a mountain of human skulls by the aliens that terraform and repopulate our planet one hundred thousand years from now..
> ...


Have you considered the possibility that the aliens will take no more notice of your exploits than we do of the critters that make up limestone? Well, perhaps they will mix you into the concrete that they pour for a cornerstone of one of their most architecturally amazing dwellings. :lol:


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

M118LR said:


> ...perhaps they will mix you into the concrete that they pour for a cornerstone of one of their most architecturally amazing dwellings. :lol:


Alas, a far more lofty goal than this poor human fossil can hope for.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Horses also died out in the Americas during the same period that Clovis civilization tapered off. 
Originally horses (and turkeys) were from NA, but died out. They were eventually reintroduced by Spaniards and Portugese.
Turkeys were taken back to Europe and Tim-Taylor'ed into something resembling the modern commercial turkey, then brought back and pumped up even more.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Not sure about the camel Rotten. But it is my fault that his thread has deviated from the original scope of the survival topic. Hope Ya'll don't mind to much? Perhaps the failure of the Clovis People can put the Task of surviving in America should SHTF into it's proper perspective? Wonder how many folks will become refuges pouring over the Canadian border? Can't even picture the scene at the fences leading into Mexico. I sometimes get confused when conversing in Spanish, could someone help me out as to the proper lingo for a ******* ******? I can still swim, but I don't think I'll be welcomed with open arms! Guess it's just going to depend on what and where the natural disaster is. I'm not sure if the Madrid fault will be as devastating as the Yosemite Super Volcano? But then again, the left coast has a few troubles awaiting also!


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Actually the Yosemite volcano will be relatively painless for those within a 1000 mile range. In all likelihood the thing will burp some night and everybody in the region will wake up dead. Like that lake down in South America a few years ago. CO poisoning is a sneaky bitch.

I never beeelieved that the clovis indians totally went extinct. I just figured they moved on for some reason, mebbe there weren't as many of them as before, but they moved to greener pastures. 

Fortunately horses had migrated across the siberian land bridge before becoming extinct here in America. Settling America without horses woulda been weird.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Still got a pulse. None the less, I think there are hardly anyone born before 1900AD that is still alive today.

There really isn't enough information to paint a clear picture on the Clovis. Remains are extremely limited.

For sure we have way more technology and knowledge today then they did, presumably; however, they likely had knowledge we do not.

None the less for the sake of argument, modern human society is more adapted to survival than the Clovis. We cannot in what is now our natural lifetime go back to that.

Beothuk.

http://dna-explained.com/2014/02/13/clovis-people-are-native-americans-and-from-asia-not-europe/

Findings above seem to indicate they migrated south, and also diffused throughout the Americas.


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## Dr. Prepper (Dec 20, 2012)

I have slept since then so please take that into account - but I seem to remember my studies from long ago that the Clovis research indicated that disease may have been a strong deterrent to their survival.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Montana is quite a distance from Chesapeake Bay, it is obvious that an Infant wasn't using Clovis Type Tools, don't get drawn in by the assumptions that the makers and users of Clovis tools had to come from Siberia because a burial of an infant from a nomadic tribe was found at a level below the actual tools found. So far there have been no DNA tests performed on the remains associated with the Clovis Points found within the Mammoths/Mastodons.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well...
Human Skeleton is One of Oldest Found in North America: Northwestern University News


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks bigwheel, was there any Clovis Style Tools found in the cave system? 

But about our modern technology, a simple sun spot or EMP sends US back to the stone age technology wise. All those years of OJT in survival can't be relearned as quickly as our modern technology can be rendered dysfunctional.


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