# Universal precautions



## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

With the ebola outbreak and the rise of Isis, it seemed like a good time to discuss universal precautions for avoiding a pandemic in our daily life. I am concerned that the next war will not be conventional warfare, but domestic terrorism across dozens of western nations. The way isis has been using social media to recruit for their caliph, it is only a matter of time before they start telling recruits to stay home and fight. These would be little attacks; ebola on an atm keyboard, or anthrax powder in the ventilation, or IEDs (i almost wrote IUDs). 

So the idea of this thread is to examine the little things we do that could get us killed in an NBC environment.

Touching our face. Studies say we do it an average of 24 times a minute. Wow.

Opening doors; most people use their palm. Better to use the back of hand or elbow.

After you wash your hands in the bathroom, use the paper towel to open the door. You ever seen that fat guy walk out of a stall and straight out the bathroom? He may have left hepetitis c, ebola, typhoid, black death, or tuberculosis. At minimum he left butt-wiping residue on the handle.

If you have touched something nasty, how aware are you of where you put your hands before you get to a sink? Do you touch a coffee cup, smoke, or put your hands in your pockets? All of these things either spread virus to your clothing, or things you put in your mouth.


Add your own observations. Some of these things may seem anal (pun intended) but if I am right about isis, then you will want to begin committing these practices to your daily routine or you will slip up when the time comes. This will be a protracted war, we will likely find ourselves under threat for a decade.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I treat public bathrooms as the contaminated areas they are. Paper towels are used to turn the water faucet off, as well as opening the door.

Want to see Denton immediately change course? See him when someone coughs or sneezes.

Oh, don't forget about gas pumps. I use disposable gloves when pumping fuel.


----------



## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

I bring a couple of those hand wipes (anti bacterial) with me and use those instead of paper towels. Much smaller to dispose of.


----------



## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

When should you start treating an infection as an imminent threat? I remember reading somewhere that your buffer zone should be 100 mile radius and if there is a positive infection within the radius it is time to implement your personal infection control measures.


----------



## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

rjd25 said:


> When should you start treating an infection as an imminent threat? I remember reading somewhere that your buffer zone should be 100 mile radius and if there is a positive infection within the radius it is time to implement your personal infection control measures.


Good question. I don't know.


----------



## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Yep, i carry 2 of those clorox wipes in my company truck. I touch a lot of equipment that a lot of others touch so i try to clean as soon as i finish work. 

Where i am AFU is the classic 'thoughtful head lean'. You know, where you rest your facethoughtfully on your the back of your fist...the same fist i use to open doors. 

My prediction is that a war of this type would change so many paradigms like rendering atms obsolete. RFIDs would quickly dominate our daily life.

I hate when im in a circle k and i go to buy something like peanuts and i carefully set the bag on my coffee cup so its not on that nasty counter with its sticky soda spills. Then the guy scans the bag and slides it across the counter. I was gonna eat those peanuts right out of the bag! Usually i just grab it first.


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

MrsInor said:


> Good question. I don't know.


We used to be able to rely on the HAN (health alert network) but after tb arrived in chicago a few years back, it sems like - altered, covered up. No ebola notices, not telling because it might show importation of multiple diseases etc. "Msm" now.

But it "used to be" if something popped within 200 miles of you, you got alerted to stock for it and watch.

If you are using commercial items you will have to go by those guidelines and watch over use.
With foods you can be constant.

The 100 mile line is a good one. 
At 50 miles you are guaranteed importation almost instantly.
200 miles I always guessed was "at least 2 days" because we used to get news 2 days before the public - now? Alex Jones beats the cdc to telling! Independents and people tell and the doctorganda swiftly publishes something to look like they were going to. 
That's how you know there is a lot of chicanery of some sort going on....


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Denton said:


> Oh, don't forget about gas pumps. I use disposable gloves when pumping fuel.


Good not only for germs but also to avoid God-only-knows what chemicals might be on the pump...


----------



## ntxwheels (Oct 25, 2014)

Ralph Rotten said:


> With the ebola outbreak and the rise of Isis, it seemed like a good time to discuss universal precautions for avoiding a pandemic in our daily life. I am concerned that the next war will not be conventional warfare, but domestic terrorism across dozens of western nations. The way isis has been using social media to recruit for their caliph, it is only a matter of time before they start telling recruits to stay home and fight. These would be little attacks; ebola on an atm keyboard, or anthrax powder in the ventilation, or IEDs (i almost wrote IUDs).
> 
> So the idea of this thread is to examine the little things we do that could get us killed in an NBC environment.
> 
> ...


There's that wind blowing again..


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I live life on the edge. I don't wash my hands after using public restrooms, tear the stickers off of my mattress, don't drink diet soft drinks, and run around holding scissors!

Seriously, an attack by a biological agent is the most likely means of attacking the U.S.. Why? Because it is cheap and doesn't take thousands of people working on it to develop it. All it really takes is a trained Biologist and a lab the size that would fit in a moderate to large size home. All of the preventive actions mentioned makes good sense, but to me the best thing that you can do is stay home. The problem is that before you are aware that there really is a problem it may already be too late. An example of this is ebola. It can take up to 3 weeks, and in rare cases longer, for the symptoms for ebola to appear. If the virus could be modified so that it was more drug resistant, that the carrier was contagious within a day or two after being infected but didn't start showing the symptoms until 3 weeks later, I could spread through most of the country before anyone was even aware of the disease was being spread. I guess that the only answer is to do the best that you can to prevent yourself from catching anything and hope for the best.


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

"likely means of attacking the U.S.. Why? Because it is cheap and doesn't take thousands of people working on it to develop it. All it really takes is a trained Biologist and a lab the size that would fit in a moderate to large size home."

......more like a high school student and the trunk of a car. 
We refer to "bio shielding" by having your body flush with protectors an hour before going around people or public places. 
I had to walk into "who knows what?" for years and only got hit when I got careless.
Must strive to look for ways to adapt at least as much as isolate. Isolation takes so much more money than most have, but most with some chance can grow container protectors or obtain them.


----------



## Daddy O (Jan 20, 2014)

ISIL or ISIS or whatever they are this week are scary. They have really done a frightening job of recruiting people from all over the world. I think the original poster is right that we may be dealing with a distributed war in the near future. After all, we saw what happened to alquaida when they took us on directly: we killed 3 generations of their leaders. So likely they are looking for a way to attack us that would circumvent our military. Alquaidas goal had been to make the US like Isreal, with armed soldiers in airports, malls, and schools. For a little bitty place, Isreal spends a large chunk of their GDP on internal security.


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Writing instruments, how often do you see someone pick up a pen at either a bank, credit union, etc. cough and bring the pen to their mouth!!?? I use my own pens and prefer to not actually touch keyboards at any place you have to enter a pin. My daughter at U of M says she sees folks waking around with the mask over the face thing all the time.


----------



## GutBag (Dec 5, 2014)

The thing is a terrorist wouldn't need to have ebola or something fancy and hard to smuggle in. You can get hepetitis C (incurable) and TB right here in the USA. Lots of other diseases and bloodborne pathogens. Spray it, smear it, splash it. Domestic terrorists could do just like Hadji did and make all kinds of improvised munitions (in fact if you google it, you can find ten links for the SF's TM on Improvised Munitions, copyright Uncle Sam.) 

So we have the Jihad Caliph over in Syria bring in volunteers from all over the world, and here in the United States we are having race relation issues that will only drive sympathizers over the line even faster. Up till recently my TEOTWAWKI plan was to head to the mountains, but then I started prepping. Now I'm wondering if the mountains wasn't such a bad idea after all.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I think by the time you get information that a communicable disease is close, it is likely already too late. People travel long distances all the time. 200 miles? 4 hours. Most diseases are most infectious before symptoms are noticed. Longer time yet until diagnosed, and way longer before being reported to the public, if at all. As the CDC has shown the information provided can be incorrect, outdated or just damned lies to keep the populace complacent or achieve a political agenda.


----------



## GutBag (Dec 5, 2014)

That's just it. How many of these attacks before you are exercising universal precautions and treating everyone and every foreign surface as contagious? 

Did you know that latex gloves will stop the aids virus, but nitrile will not. Some nurse with tig old bitties once told me that. When she worked with aids patients they would double glove because latex rips easier than the nitrile gloves.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

GutBag said:


> That's just it. How many of these attacks before you are exercising universal precautions and treating everyone and every foreign surface as contagious?
> 
> Did you know that latex gloves will stop the aids virus, but nitrile will not. Some nurse with tig old bitties once told me that. When she worked with aids patients they would double glove because latex rips easier than the nitrile gloves.


Never heard that before. Anyone have a source to independently verify that?


----------



## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> Never heard that before. Anyone have a source to independently verify that?


Viruses can indeed go through intact gloves. Gloves keep blood and dirt off your hands, but you still need to wash or use hand sanitizer when you remove soiled gloves. That is standard operating procedure for health care workers.


----------



## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

RNprepper said:


> Viruses can indeed go through intact gloves. Gloves keep blood and dirt off your hands, but you still need to wash or use hand sanitizer when you remove soiled gloves. That is standard operating procedure for health care workers.


So no difference between nitrile and latex gloves?


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Latex = medicine
Nitrile = tattoo shop (sorry I know stuffs expensive just to change a bed.....)


----------



## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

MrsInor said:


> So no difference between nitrile and latex gloves?


I'd have to look up the data, but I don't trust any of them. All gloves have micropores that are small enough to keep out blood and bacteria, but virues - not so much. I always wash after taking off soiled gloves. It's what we are trained to do. The only reason nitrile gloves are in use is that so many people are allergic to latex and no hospital wants to be sued for causing an allergic reaction. Hospitals are basically latex free now.

You know the best defense against bacteria and viruses? Your own clean, intact skin! But...._ intact_ is the key. AND we touch our eyes, nose, and mouth all the time with dirty hands. If the virus doesn't get through our skin, it surely gets into our systems through the mucus membranes. When SHTF, skin will be exposed to the sun and elements more, with more cuts, nicks, burns, abrasions. No one will have intact skin.

Anyway, the purpose of gloves is to keep the gross (large) contamination off your skin. You still have to wash with soap/water or use sanitizer when the gloves come off, if you were dealing with blood or body fluids.


----------



## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Yep, i carry 2 of those clorox wipes in my company truck. I touch a lot of equipment that a lot of others touch so i try to clean as soon as i finish work.
> 
> Where i am AFU is the classic 'thoughtful head lean'. You know, where you rest your facethoughtfully on your the back of your fist...the same fist i use to open doors.
> 
> ...


There are way too many unconscious habits to count. Of course the thing to put on top of your Eek! List is to think, then act. This is totally alien to the way most people live, but maybe it's something we can practice. Nose itch? THINK, then rub it with a tissue or piece of paper towel. Then dump that immediately.

The point is that this precaution should go into effect no later than a 200 mile alert. Ideally you want to simply make that pause a 24/7 habit.

Btw, they did a study not long ago on disinfectants at the consumer level. Lysol spray/wipes came out *better* than Chlorox bleach products.


----------



## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

MrsInor said:


> So no difference between nitrile and latex gloves?


Of course there is, MrsInor. The difference is huge. As RNP says, things can go through latex, though the gloves are a whole lot better than bare hands. That's why the ebola protocol says a minimum of 3 layers of laytex. The nitrile standard glove is a lot thicker (relatively). However, it doesn't hug the hand and it's not as flexible. Also, it has basic protection against almost all acids. I used those gloves in nasty conditions for many years. I've never heard that any germs could get through them. Of course that was before there was any known ebola. All I know is that I've had my hands in some hungry acids using single layer nitrile.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

The point is that if there is a pandemic from some weaponized virus or contagion it is theoretically possible for it to be engineered so that by the time the authorities even realize that there is a pandemic it is too late. Think about what would happen if ebola actually became a true airborne virus like the common cold or the flu only much more so?


----------



## GutBag (Dec 5, 2014)

I'm of the mind that if we had half a dozen of these random attacks around the country, people are going to start running scared because this kind of stuff could be done in any town. This won't just effect NYC, they will strike at all points, maybe even intentionally pick a few Mayberry RFDs in the middle of BFE just to make sure that EVERYONE is scared. 

The late Tom Clancy wrote of this in his books. He had one where terrorists had a plot to go to malls and shoot as many people as possible. The first one they go to a couple of federal agents kill them all, then after that Americans became aware of the plot and everybody started carrying concealed and the following attacks fizzled. I don't remember which book that was, but it was good. All of his stuff was excellent. I think he had an ebola book too but it's been twenty years since I read those books.


----------



## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Notso, how do you figure that anyone would miss large numbers of people all dying of the same disease? That's what defines a pandemic... If that happens, there won't be any doubt that something is happening. After the ebola scare, if more than 5 people come down with a cold it makes the news.


----------



## GutBag (Dec 5, 2014)

They don't need to start a pandemic. I am scared of HepC or hantavirus or TB. But it would be easy enough to get ebola into the country by infecting one of their own. If they'll wear a suicide vest, then they'll carry ebola on an international flight. Filter the puss until it's a mostly clear solution and wipe it on things and doors and stuff. That happens in 12 cities and you betcha I'd be gloved up everywhere I went. Maybe even carry a ten foot pole. 10'1" actually.

crap. I got to go to work.


----------



## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

I touch door handles. I don't like public bathrooms, but I've used them. People cough and sneeze all the time, I get the same amount of sick whether I'm around them or not (and that's not very much).

Our bodies are built to handle infections. Our bodies are built to attack viruses. It doesn't always work, but here's my line of thinking; I played in the sandbox as a kid; I played outside in the dirt, a lot; My body has a lot of practice fending off germs from door handles, and I don't get sick very often. Kids now-a-days, they play in little plastic bubbles with spray bottles of bleach nearby and little handy clorox wipes to clean everything they touch. They seem to get sick a lot. Maybe their bodies aren't getting any practice doing what it is they're supposed to naturally do.

There's some obvious places where you need to be pedantic. Hospitals come to mind. For the regular person, have you ever considered that you're spending so much time fending off any tiny little bug that maybe you're actually making yourself more susceptible to the big ones later on?


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

IMO the most safe way to protect yourself from a pandemic is isolation, although it probably wouldn't be practical for most people. As hard a it would be, go into total lock down, no one comes in, no one goes out. One of the problems I think that we would run into is that the Government would try to keep it quiet, and would not tell the population just how serious the incident is until it is already too late and the biological agent has already spread through the population.

IMO one of the things that would make a weaponized virus so frightening is that even though you may live in a small community, some one from that community catch it by coming in contact from that small community who has come in to contact with someone who recently visited a large urban center, and then unknowingly passed it on in the small community.


----------



## Daddy O (Jan 20, 2014)

I believe that germs and colds are just your bodies way of downloading the latest virus definitions. If you didnt stay current you could be killed by simple stuff. Happened to the Native Americans. 

But this thread is about how you would do it if we were under a series of attacks from AlAkbar. When the ebola outbreak first got out of hand i had my wife pick up gloves and quarantine supplies to complement the gas masks i have for the whole family. Figured buy that stuff now before prices spike like they will when there is an outbreak.


----------

