# How far from your doorstep is the tallest tree you can see?



## M118LR

I haven't heard allot of counter-sniper preparation, so perhaps many haven't given thought to how far away from the doorstep is the tallest tree that you can see?


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## Slippy

The Cabin at Slippy Lodge is surrounded by trees that are approximately 60-80 feet tall. These trees are anywhere from 100 to 400 feet away from the home. It is situated on the highest ridge on the surrounding square mile +/-.

The trees are predominantly hardwoods with some tall pines scattered. The underbrush is thick with brushes and blackberry bushes with thorns. 

There is a road system that winds it's way throughout the property. 

What is my best strategy?


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## dsdmmat

Slippy said:


> The Cabin at Slippy Lodge is surrounded by trees that are approximately 60-80 feet tall. These trees are anywhere from 100 to 400 feet away from the home. It is situated on the highest ridge on the surrounding square mile +/-.
> 
> The trees are predominantly hardwoods with some tall pines scattered. The underbrush is thick with brushes and blackberry bushes with thorns.
> 
> There is a road system that winds it's way throughout the property.
> 
> What is my best strategy?


claymore mines


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## rstanek

50 feet


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## M118LR

I believe that slippy has underestimated the distance to the tallest tree he can see from the doorstep. Take a sighting with a rangefinder or Mildot scope/bino to the top of the tallest tree, furthest away. 
Strategy is determined by actual distance. You are preparing for a 400 foot conflict, I am willing to bet that the actual distance shall be more than 1000 Meters. This is my first strategy suggestion.


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## NotTooProudToHide

Snipers are way down on my list of worries. Home Invasion/Mugging are far more likely scenarios


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## Smitty901

Sniper or raccoon in a tree dog don't care he will still go nuts .


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## NotTooProudToHide

Smitty901 said:


> Sniper or raccoon in a tree dog don't care he will still go nuts .


I was going to suggest dogs too. Mans best friend is a good friend when it comes to home security


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## M118LR

NotTooProudToHide said:


> Snipers are way down on my list of worries. Home Invasion/Mugging are far more likely scenarios


Actual professional Home Invaders don't make a move without Sniper Over Watch. You are far less likely to survive professional home invaders than you have considered. I do mean PROFESSIONAL HOME INVADERS.


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## M118LR

Smitty901 said:


> Sniper or raccoon in a tree dog don't care he will still go nuts .


Smitty901, a dog is mans best friend. A flock of geese are far better at raising an alarm. Neither can conceive of the distance to the tallest tree you can see. Tisk,tisk, you know better.


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## Chipper

I'm completely surrounded by tree's. I'm the only house for half mile. Guess I'm dead. 

But wait I can hide in those tree's also. Would this 300 win mag come in handy??


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## M118LR

Chipper said:


> I'm completely surrounded by tree's. I'm the only house for half mile. Guess I'm dead.
> 
> But wait I can hide in those tree's also. Would this 300 win mag come in handy??


Well Chipper, at what distance can you keep all your shoots inside of a ten inch circle at with that 300 Win Mag? And will it be far enough to reach the top of the tallest tree you can possibly see?


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## NotTooProudToHide

Well to play along the largest tree close to my house is the one in the neighbors back yard, maybe 50 feet away, big old oak tree. I think I could hit the squirrels in it from my deck with a wrist rocket if i wanted too. Your mileage may vary but in my particular situation snipers are down the list of concerns.


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## M118LR

NotTooProudToHide said:


> Well to play along the largest tree close to my house is the one in the neighbors back yard, maybe 50 feet away, big old oak tree. I think I could hit the squirrels in it from my deck with a wrist rocket if i wanted too. Your mileage may vary but in my particular situation snipers are down the list of concerns.


Thanks for playing, but how far away is the top of the tallest tree that you can possibly see? Snipers may be lowest on your list, but 1 sniper at the top of the farthest tallest tree you can see will be your surest demise NotTooProudToHide. The door-kickers come in after the snipers have paved the road.


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## SOCOM42

The tallest that I can see the top of is 25 feet from the door. 

The tree is 130 feet high, I am in the middle of maple and oak trees, the shortest is about 90.

It is so dense here that even in the winter you cannot see more than 50 feet into the wood line, or the tops other than when on the road.

Backside is facing the river with no opportunity for long range there either.

The sun only shines on my place during the winter, and I like it that way.

Solar is useless here unless I cut down trees.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

well.. tallest tree in the farmstead is 220 yds away.. but considering that would be within my defensive perimeter.. the tallest tree (and closest cover) from the farm is 1 1/2 miles away... there is also a abandoned church there (obviously a better sniper hide) but the trees in the farm are between the church and I... in a true SHTF I would have a hidden LP/OP, and 800-1200 yds of open country in all directions..


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## M118LR

SOCOM42 said:


> The tallest that I can see the top of is 25 feet from the door.
> 
> The tree is 130 feet high, I am in the middle of maple and oak trees, the shortest is about 90.
> 
> It is so dense here that even in the winter you cannot see more than 50 feet into the wood line, or the tops other than when on the road.
> 
> Backside is facing the river with no opportunity for long range there either.
> 
> The sun only shines on my place during the winter, and I like it that way.
> 
> Solar is useless here unless I cut down trees.


SOCOM42, we have both been to Indiana. What is the actual assessment of the distance that a trained military sniper could drop a round on your door handle from the furthermost point of tactical elevation? Any sniper can be in the middle of New York City's tallest buildings and have a line of sight longer than 50 feet. Either you have lost your ability to properly assess the situation, or you are mollycoddling the masses. Neither shall be considered acceptable for the purpose of this exercise. JMHO.


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## M118LR

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> in a true SHTF I would have a hidden LP/OP, and 800-1200 yds of open country in all directions..


I believe you are still underestimating ND_ponyexpress, but when was the last time you even attempted a 1200 yard shot. More or less practiced 100 rounds on a man sized target at that distance? But in a true SHTF situation you would have to be able to accomplish that feat with your first round while you where under fire.

Hope this is Denton Approved, even if it shakes the pants off the establishment, but there won't be a ME statement in the entire evolution.


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## NotTooProudToHide

I'm just trying to figure out why I should be worried about a military trained sniper in my neighbors tree targeting me so a professional home invasion force can break into my house


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## M118LR

Are you preparing for the day that the government comes to take away your foodstuff's or your firearms? When the world goes to SHTF, what makes you think that folks with this type of training aren't in your neighborhood? They might not be making much noise in today's dormancy, but when all of societies rules are removed and they need to survive... They shall fight like they trained.


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## Mad Trapper

M118LR said:


> I haven't heard allot of counter-sniper preparation, so perhaps many haven't given thought to how far away from the doorstep is the tallest tree that you can see?


A Fir , It touches my home. Then there are white pines about 75' away they are only 72" DBH and 100'


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## M118LR

Mad Trapper said:


> A Fir , It touches my home. Then there are white pines about 75' away they are only 72" DBH and 100'


Good luck Mad Trapper, dig out the cabin floor and cut firing slits at porch level. Hope you are given the opportunity for it to be "YOUR DECISION". At 75 feet you should be well prepared with a snub nosed .38 special. Give 'em hell before they take you.


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## M118LR

So is it time to go back to the top and respond to slippy after his reassessment? Or should I give the chest beaters a little more time to act out thier fantasies?


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## 8301

M118LR said:


> I haven't heard allot of counter-sniper preparation, so perhaps many haven't given thought to how far away from the doorstep is the tallest tree that you can see?


Well with binoculars I guess I could see the trees on the hills over 25 miles away.
But to answer your question in a more realistic way 350 yds with the potential danger on the ground. Worrying about a tree mounted sniper is getting a bit paranoid in my book. I'd rather be enjoying life than fantasizing about tree mounted snipers in the front yard.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

M118LR said:


> I believe you are still underestimating ND_ponyexpress, but when was the last time you even attempted a 1200 yard shot. More or less practiced 100 rounds on a man sized target at that distance? But in a true SHTF situation you would have to be able to accomplish that feat with your first round while you where under fire.
> 
> Hope this is Denton Approved, even if it shakes the pants off the establishment, but there won't be a ME statement in the entire evolution.


ahh... but I don't need to hit them at 1200 yds..why would I bother?.. my job would be to signal the rest of my defenders and make the attackers cross 1200 yds without cover to get to where the rest of us are (hidden).. that is a charge that would make Gen Pickett think twice...


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## rice paddy daddy

I do not have an obsessive fixation on snipers and sniping, as some other/others here have.

Have a nice day.


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## NotTooProudToHide

John Galt said:


> Well with binoculars I guess I could see the trees on the hills over 25 miles away.
> But to answer your question in a more realistic way 350 yds with the potential danger on the ground. Worrying about a tree mounted sniper is getting a bit paranoid in my book. I'd rather be enjoying life than fantasizing about tree mounted snipers in the front yard.


Plenty of other stuff to worry about. I won't totally dismiss the scenario M118LR is throwing out because it is feasible alibit you would run into a bubba with a deer rifle rather than a military trained sniper with a military rifle and military scope. Its not something I war game out on a daily basis or something that I prep for on a daily basis.


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## Slippy

M118LR said:


> I believe that slippy has underestimated the distance to the tallest tree he can see from the doorstep. Take a sighting with a rangefinder or Mildot scope/bino to the top of the tallest tree, furthest away.
> Strategy is determined by actual distance. You are preparing for a 400 foot conflict, I am willing to bet that the actual distance shall be more than 1000 Meters. This is my first strategy suggestion.


Since I designed and built Slippy Lodge, acting as my own General Contractor and supervising every aspect of the build, from land surveying and clearing to the final inspection, I know within a few feet exactly where the trees are from the home.

I'm sorry but I don't understand this at all.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

the only cover for a proper sniper (tree or church tower) is roughly 2600 yds away..... if the sniper that can make that shot in a ND wind just happens to be passing by my farmstead... guess we are screwed..


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## M118LR

John Galt said:


> Well with binoculars I guess I could see the trees on the hills over 25 miles away.
> But to answer your question in a more realistic way 350 yds with the potential danger on the ground. Worrying about a tree mounted sniper is getting a bit paranoid in my book. I'd rather be enjoying life than fantasizing about tree mounted snipers in the front yard.


John Galt, with 25 power binoculars you have a concept of what those that could do you harm have been trained to accomplish. You are the one that determines your level of preparedness, it has been suggested that I take the ME out of sharing actual experience, so I am just questioning what others have done to prepare for a situation far off the multi- hostile paradigm. What are your preparations for the challenge of confronting one lone trained shooter?


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## Camel923

20 yards and the tree is well over a hundred feet tall


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## bigwheel

M118LR said:


> I haven't heard allot of counter-sniper preparation, so perhaps many haven't given thought to how far away from the doorstep is the tallest tree that you can see?


Fifty feet.


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## bigwheel

Slippy said:


> The Cabin at Slippy Lodge is surrounded by trees that are approximately 60-80 feet tall. These trees are anywhere from 100 to 400 feet away from the home. It is situated on the highest ridge on the surrounding square mile +/-.
> 
> The trees are predominantly hardwoods with some tall pines scattered. The underbrush is thick with brushes and blackberry bushes with thorns.
> 
> There is a road system that winds it's way throughout the property.
> 
> What is my best strategy?


Well if Hillary gets elected I would climb the tallest tree and hang out with the deer rifle.


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## M118LR

Slippy said:


> Since I designed and built Slippy Lodge, acting as my own General Contractor and supervising every aspect of the build, from land surveying and clearing to the final inspection, I know within a few feet exactly where the trees are from the home.
> 
> I'm sorry but I don't understand this at all.


When you built slippy lodge, did you factor in any input from any of America's highly trained and practiced snipers (Scout or Senior)? While you contemplated and agonized over every possible multi-aggressor scenario, did you acquire any knowledge of what a single shooter with a precision rifle would easily accomplish at the SOCOM minimum specification range of 1500 meters? Or is this oversight something that would leave you and those you defend to be nothing more than targets on the one way range. Now that I have inquired, what is that you have done or are going to do to stop a single precision rifleman from eating crackers and picking Y'all off like metal plates on a target range! Unsettling, perhaps. But what do you think the chances are that you could face a lone trained rifleman instead of a herd of apocalyptic zombies? For every Trained Sniper you have ever even heard from, a hundred lie silent not willing to face the light of day. It's the nature of the beast. JMHO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipe


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## A Watchman

When I was in the 7th grade some older "friends" took me snipe hunting. As the opportunity arose I was known to reciprocate to a few unsuspecting and naïve young ladies. Never had any of them have any success in spotting one. Now almost 40 years later, still no reports of any snipes. I suspect they are darn near extinct in my neck of the woods by now.


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## M118LR

A Watchman said:


> When I was in the 7th grade some older "friends" took me snipe hunting. As the opportunity arose I was known to reciprocate to a few unsuspecting and naïve young ladies. Never had any of them have any success in spotting one. Now almost 40 years later, still no reports of any snipes. I suspect they are darn near extinct in my neck of the woods by now.


Maine Marine, or other experienced Maine Hunters have hunted and bagged snipe. Had a pair of Welsh Cockers that hunted the field and retrieved snipe till thier feet bleed. Sorry you never bagged a snipe, but that doesn't mean they are not out there. It just means that you went hungry.


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## Mad Trapper

:vs_moon:


M118LR said:


> Good luck Mad Trapper, dig out the cabin floor and cut firing slits at porch level. Hope you are given the opportunity for it to be "YOUR DECISION". At 75 feet you should be well prepared with a snub nosed .38 special. Give 'em hell before they take you.


Ithaca m37, Colt M1911A1, and Spring M1A match. If longer shit pre-64 M70 in 06 and 300 win mag, rem 700 BDL 222


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## bigwheel

A Watchman said:


> When I was in the 7th grade some older "friends" took me snipe hunting. As the opportunity arose I was known to reciprocate to a few unsuspecting and naïve young ladies. Never had any of them have any success in spotting one. Now almost 40 years later, still no reports of any snipes. I suspect they are darn near extinct in my neck of the woods by now.


My Mama told me all about the snipe hunting deal so I was not prepared to fall for it.


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## m14nm

I'm standing with my back to my 250 yard targets. Pictured is the back side of my house.(centered) An easy target for a trained sniper.


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## m14nm

M118LR said:


> Maine Marine, or other experienced Maine Hunters have hunted and bagged snipe. Had a pair of Welsh Cockers that hunted the field and retrieved snipe till thier feet bleed. Sorry you never bagged a snipe, but that doesn't mean they are not out there. It just means that you went hungry.


Jack a lopes might be easier to spot.


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## M118LR

Mad Trapper said:


> :vs_moon:
> 
> Ithaca m37, Colt M1911A1, and Spring M1A match. If longer shit pre-64 M70 in 06 and 300 win mag, rem 700 BDL 222


I Thank You Mad Trapper, about that longer? What are you using at 1500 to 2500 Meters? Not to mention how did you see your target if you couldn't possibly have a line of sight over 100 yards? Want to contemplate what 1/4 MOA adjustments on your scope equal at say 2000 Meters?


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## M118LR

m14nm said:


> I'm standing with my back to my 250 yard targets. Pictured is the back side of my house.(centered) An easy target for a trained sniper.
> 
> View attachment 20298


How far is it to the top of the long pole pine at the top of the crest? Think anyone could see you from there?


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## M118LR

bigwheel said:


> My Mama told me all about the snipe hunting deal so I was not prepared to fall for it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipe

Hope this helps bigwheel. Yes the really exist!


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## ND_ponyexpress_

I am confused...why do I need to shoot somebody from my concealed cover @ 1200 yds if they need to cross 1200 yds without cover to get to me and mine? if they are going to sit there and pick us off 1 by 1... they are going to be laying in the middle of a field for a damn long time (days) once we know there is a sniper out there... worst case we button up and stay out of site but on watch for a few weeks... what am I missing in this pissing contest?


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## acidMia

I am in awe. You guys think of everything. Will be taking these points in to consideration as I look for my property.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

acidMia said:


> I am in awe. You guys think of everything. Will be taking these points in to consideration as I look for my property.


most of us here will tell you to consider the things that will likely kill you before a sniper does.. namely water.... have a good source of water.. then look for sniper hides...


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## M118LR

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> I am confused...why do I need to shoot somebody from my concealed cover @ 1200 yds if they need to cross 1200 yds without cover to get to me and mine? if they are going to sit there and pick us off 1 by 1... they are going to be laying in the middle of a field for a damn long time (days) once we know there is a sniper out there... worst case we button up and stay out of site but on watch for a few weeks... what am I missing in this pissing contest?


Sir, this isn't a pissing contest. It's a question of what have you prepared for. I am just making you aware that every trained sniper graduating today has exceeded the minimum specification of engagement without failure at a range of 1500 Meters. So if you are 1200 Meters from certain death, what are your plans for eliminating the folks that have proven that 1500 meters is infallible? Prepare for the herd of zombies that you should fix bayonets for, as realistic as that is? Or consider how you would defend all you cherish from one of the many silent, trained and practiced folks that exist everyday in the real world. It is a shift in paradigm. But like the snipe, they really do exist. You can meet them if you have a shared concept. JMHO.


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## Denton

This is a darned good question. You have me thinking from the opposite direction I have been thinking. 

Considering school trained snipers are not only trained to shoot but are also trained to patiently get into position, this is something to think about.


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## M118LR

Sorry Denton if you are receiving pm's about this thread. Without specifics, I am doing my best to expose what folks shall really need to contemplate about those that have been trained by others of the tribe. No ME's.


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## 8301

M118LR said:


> John Galt, with 25 power binoculars you have a concept of what those that could do you harm have been trained to accomplish. You are the one that determines your level of preparedness, it has been suggested that I take the ME out of sharing actual experience, so I am just questioning what others have done to prepare for a situation far off the multi- hostile paradigm. What are your preparations for the challenge of confronting one lone trained shooter?


I suspect the better question is at what point does preparing for a potential disaster cross the line into video game fantasy? Rambo movies are just movies. Very good movies but reality, time, and budget requires that I live and prepare for the real world.

FYI, Trying to use 25X binoculars 60' up in a tree is almost impossible due to the tree's tiny movements. Try it sometime.


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## Denton

M118LR said:


> Sorry Denton if you are receiving pm's about this thread. Without specifics, I am doing my best to expose what folks shall really need to contemplate about those that have been trained by others of the tribe. No ME's.


Stay on target and knock off the apology crap. Go into instructor mode, please. 
When I get off work and can focus, I want to pick up what you are putting down. This is some good stuff. 
I also have questions about heavily wooded areas 
Should be home around 2300hrs


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## ND_ponyexpress_

M118LR said:


> Sir, this isn't a pissing contest. It's a question of what have you prepared for. I am just making you aware that every trained sniper graduating today has exceeded the minimum specification of engagement without failure at a range of 1500 Meters. So if you are 1200 Meters from certain death, what are your plans for eliminating the folks that have proven that 1500 meters is infallible? Prepare for the herd of zombies that you should fix bayonets for, as realistic as that is? Or consider how you would defend all you cherish from one of the many silent, trained and practiced folks that exist everyday in the real world. It is a shift in paradigm. But like the snipe, they really do exist. You can meet them if you have a shared concept. JMHO.


I haven't prepared for tanks, Ligers, comets, aliens or drone strikes either...... all have about the same odds of finding my farm in a true SHTF... after passing the numerous other farms between me and civilization.. and systematically sniping them 1 by 1 over the course of years.... like I said.. .if said sniper does show up.. he may kill us all.. but it is going to take him several weeks to do it while everyone within 15 miles looks for him... how many days does he wait to advance on a farm 1200yds away after shooting a few? how does he know he has got them all? he would have to guess right every time on every farm between me and him... sounds like days of laying and waiting.. weeks maybe.... and then do what? empty the farm of what he can carry and do it again to the next farm? if he is just the scout/sniper for a raiding party, what do they do for the week or so til he cleans out a farm of all defenders?


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## ND_ponyexpress_

Yes I am aware there are snipers that can kill me easily.... I am also aware there are mosquitoes that can do it too... how do snipers prepare for those?


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## M118LR

John Galt said:


> I suspect the better question is at what point does preparing for a potential disaster cross the line into video game fantasy? Rambo movies are just movies. Very good movies but reality, time, and budget requires that I live and prepare for the real world.
> 
> FYI, Trying to use 25X binoculars 60' up in a tree is almost impossible due to the tree's tiny movements. Try it sometime.


John Galt, at what point does actual minimum sniper specification cross the line into your video fantasy? (excuse me, I have now crossed into an area of monitoring that no longer allows me to correspond) Big Brother is monitoring me! For Y'all's sake I'll need to sit the pine. Sorry.


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## Maol9

slippy said:


> the cabin at slippy lodge is surrounded by trees that are approximately 60-80 feet tall. These trees are anywhere from 100 to 400 feet away from the home. It is situated on the highest ridge on the surrounding square mile +/-.
> 
> The trees are predominantly hardwoods with some tall pines scattered. The underbrush is thick with brushes and blackberry bushes with thorns.
> 
> There is a road system that winds it's way throughout the property.
> 
> What is my best strategy?


fire!!!


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## 8301

M118LR said:


> John Galt, at what point does actual minimum sniper specification cross the line into your video fantasy? (excuse me, I have now crossed into an area of monitoring that no longer allows me to correspond) Big Brother is monitoring me! For Y'all's sake I'll need to sit the pine. Sorry.


Bug,,, time to go back to your Nintendo game. Perhaps a valium will help settle your nerves.


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## m14nm

M118LR said:


> How far is it to the top of the long pole pine at the top of the crest? Think anyone could see you from there?


150 yards, and a clear shot to the house.

This picture shows what used to be a 30 acre field. ( about 1/3rd. of the field) The right of way, at the top of the field, goes to 350 yards and my furthest targets. From just about anywhere in the field, I'm a sitting duck.

Thanks for the thread. I never gave sniping any thought before now.


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## M118LR

Maol9 said:


> fire!!!


Are there all manors of things that shall take your life come SHTF? Yes. Have you prepared for a lone shooter that has trained to be precision accurate? Doubtful! Is this a failing? Did you succumb to his/her training? How do you intend to modify your perspective to deal with a higher percentage of probability than a Zombie Apocalypse? If there are folks picking you and all you care for off at a 100% rate at a distance of 1500 Meters, just what are you going to due about it? If your answer is "They will be dealt with" all folk's like me hear is "the sheep are making noise about being sheered" Now tell me how you are going to defend everything and everyone you love or care for! Otherwise, it's time to tell me what prayer I should bespeak on thier graves. But this isn't a me thing, this is about the tax dollars you have spent to make America's employees do what is needed. And everyone of today's snipers have to meet these minimum specifications to wear the patch. More than my opinion.


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## Mad Trapper

Trees also provide a lot of cover.

Thought of that at all? Here in the northeast hard to get a shot at a whitetail much over 50 yards. Shotguns and 30-30s rule these woods.


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## M118LR

m14nm said:


> 150 yards, and a clear shot to the house.
> 
> This picture shows what used to be a 30 acre field. ( about 1/3rd. of the field) The right of way, at the top of the field, goes to 350 yards and my furthest targets. From just about anywhere in the field, I'm a sitting duck.
> 
> Thanks for the thread. I never gave sniping any thought before now.
> 
> View attachment 20305


m14nm, I don't remember zeroing your weapon at less than 250 Meters. So if your longest shot is less than the qualifying distance to to earn an E on your service ribbon, talk to all the esteemed Veterans that give me (Grief) non-navy jargon. For folks like me needed to qualify as experts just to get into Basic Training. Like Friday, just the fact's.


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## SOCOM42

To engage anyone here the max is 300 feet. There is no high point, no spire, no hill, yes I have doped out the area as a shooter, a range card would be a waste.

All the trees are 90+ high, the water table allows the trees to really flourish. 

The under growth here among the trees has created a giant Bocage.

The longest presumptive shot would be 100 yards along the straight part of the access road, and that would not be at the home.

I googled my place about a year ago, all you can see is the dirt road, none of the home, shop or bunker, everything is covered by the trees..


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## M118LR

John Galt said:


> Bug,,, time to go back to your Nintendo game. Perhaps a valium will help settle your nerves.


I'll give Atenolol a nod, but I'll bet you can't pull a trigger between heartbeats. Without a drug. Nor have you ever attempted this like every sniper candidate to scratch the mark, or passed the test. But yet you want to beat your chest like someone that did the dirty deed. So now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of realism. All you never have been, think you could have made it, and want to express your opinions, to the folk's that made it and did it! .......
This is the time for Y'all to express your opinions. 
..............................................................................


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## M118LR

m118lr said:


> i'll give atenolol a nod, but i'll bet you can't pull a trigger between heartbeats. Without a drug. Nor have you ever attempted this like every sniper candidate to scratch the mark, or passed the test. But yet you want to beat your chest like someone that did the dirty deed. So now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of realism. All you never have been, think you could have made it, and want to express your opinions, to the folk's that made it and did it! .......
> This is the time for y'all to express your opinions.
> ..............................................................................


i'm so behind.


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## New guy 101

Well The tallest tree I can see is less than 400 meters and at that close distance I wouldn't worry a bit if he were in the top if it...cause he'll be swinging to and fro...bending that tree down a little bit. Plus, he'd look a little like a big ass squirrel nest in the top of the tree if he climbed that far up. I don't know of any sniper who climbs to the top of a tree....gets kind of flimsy up there...and sparse.


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## M118LR

SOCOM42 said:


> To engage anyone here the max is 300 feet. There is no high point, no spire, no hill, yes I have doped out the area as a shooter, a range card would be a waste.
> 
> All the trees are 90+ high, the water table allows the trees to really flourish.
> 
> The under growth here among the trees has created a giant Bocage.
> 
> The longest presumptive shot would be 100 yards along the straight part of the access road, and that would not be at the home.
> 
> I googled my place about a year ago, all you can see is the dirt road, none of the home, shop or bunker, everything is covered by the trees..


What was is it you wanted me to carry on SOCOM42. I'll give you a "Get out of jail free" card for time spent. Don't bother me with thing's for those other than your offspring. Nor should you expect more from any of the folks that came after me. They have no debt to any of US.


----------



## m14nm

M118LR:
For years, back in the eighty's and ninety's, I shot DCM high power with the M14 platform. Scores in the 480's is where I topped out. Not the best, but better than most. I still shoot several days a week with battle sights. Sometimes in low light conditions when it's tough to see the front sight. As for precision shooting, I have that covered. 

OSPEC tells me not to reveal more.


----------



## Coastie dad

Im sure there are those who view snipers as cowards, because they kill from hiding, and brag about it.

That said, don't think we need to always worry about professionals as much as experienced hunters used to taking long shots at their prey. 
Were I to choose being a marauder rather than the stay at home kind of guy I am, sneaking and sniping would be my first choice. And I don't think anyone, even a trained counter sniper, can totally control his environment on a constant basis and continue to function as necessary to care for himself or family members. So, while this is interesting, I don't plan on getting too wrapped up. I can't control or plan for everything. I can only be aware.

And how about that sneaky arse that is not a sniper, huh?
While we have the allure of the lone rifleman, that mysterious figure we are being told to dread that lurks in the shadows to steal our souls, as his prowess is unparalleled by all but the Norse gods, there is another....
The one that doesn't fire a shot, but watches and records movements, personnel, routines, etc. Then provides that information to others in exchange for a share of the plunder. While we have focused on the romantic figure of the lone harbinger of death to fuel both nightmares and egos, have we considered the scout, the spy, who brings the information to the evildoers?

Yeah....yeah.....there's more than one monster in the shadows of your nightmares...one may steal your soul...but one steals your secrets...your weaknesses....your fears....then sells them to the soul stealer....

Bwahahahahaaaaaaaaa.....:devil:


----------



## M118LR

Coastie dad said:


> Im sure there are those who view snipers as cowards, because they kill from hiding, and brag about it.
> 
> That said, don't think we need to always worry about professionals as much as experienced hunters used to taking long shots at their prey.
> Were I to choose being a marauder rather than the stay at home kind of guy I am, sneaking and sniping would be my first choice. And I don't think anyone, even a trained counter sniper, can totally control his environment on a constant basis and continue to function as necessary to care for himself or family members. So, while this is interesting, I don't plan on getting too wrapped up. I can't control or plan for everything. I can only be aware.
> 
> And how about that sneaky arse that is not a sniper, huh?
> While we have the allure of the lone rifleman, that mysterious figure we are being told to dread that lurks in the shadows to steal our souls, as his prowess is unparalleled by all but the Norse gods, there is another....
> The one that doesn't fire a shot, but watches and records movements, personnel, routines, etc. Then provides that information to others in exchange for a share of the plunder. While we have focused on the romantic figure of the lone harbinger of death to fuel both nightmares and egos, have we considered the scout, the spy, who brings the information to the evildoers?
> 
> Yeah....yeah.....there's more than one monster in the shadows of your nightmares...one may steal your soul...but one steals your secrets...your weaknesses....your fears....then sells them to the soul stealer....
> 
> Bwahahahahaaaaaaaaa.....:devil:


Coastie dad, I have only raised question. I have done no more than to ask you how you have prepared to meet such a challenge.

I have not raised a challenge to meet the monster in the shadows that brings forth your nightmares, and rules the moonless night. Yet leaves nothing but footprints. 



 But It is my opinion that you have the shoe on the wrong foot. I dream of moonless nights.


----------



## Coastie dad

M118LR said:


> Coastie dad, I have only raised question. I have done no more than to ask you how you have prepared to meet such a challenge.
> 
> I have not raised a challenge to meet the monster in the shadows that brings forth your nightmares, and rules the moonless night. Yet leaves nothing but footprints.
> 
> 
> 
> But It is my opinion that you have the shoe on the wrong foot. I dream of moonless nights.


Oh, you're missing the point there, buddy. I've done lots of night work...on foot...
Don't let my signature line deceive you with the pictures...you just ain't the only ghost out there in the haunted woods....


----------



## Denton

OK, here is the scene...
*
Scene removed for security purposes. Since M118LR isn't going to bounce his thoughts off this, why keep it out there?*

M118LR, what is your assessment and how would you prepare for the sniper or experienced rifleman who intends on violating the laws of nature and nature's God?


----------



## Coastie dad

And, aside from the challenge that you perceive, let me be clear. While we are looking at scenarios let's consider the spy and information gatherer. Let's think not only about where a shooter can hide, but where a watcher can stay and observe and record. 
How far away do you patrol from your AO? How familiar are you with your terrain and how it can be exploited? 
What about the unimposing guy with his head down that never gives cause for concern?

Oh, there are many scenarios to worry about other than just a sniper...


----------



## M118LR

Coastie dad said:


> Oh, you're missing the point there, buddy. I've done lots of night work...on foot...
> Don't let my signature line deceive you with the pictures...you just ain't the only ghost out there in the haunted woods....


Somehow you missed the fact that it's not about Casper, it's all about what you have done to ensure that Casper isn't going to ruin your party. I can expound on the way's that Casper shall ruin everything you prepared for. Perhaps that would be a better role for me? It would make everyone else rethink thier preparations. But that would drive the Moderators even farther into madness. So I must bypass your challenge Coastie dad. If for no other reason than my given word to Denton. But believe me when I say it is only my given word that keeps me from your challenge.


----------



## Mad Trapper

M118LR said:


> I Thank You Mad Trapper, about that longer? What are you using at 1500 to 2500 Meters? Not to mention how did you see your target if you couldn't possibly have a line of sight over 100 yards? Want to contemplate what 1/4 MOA adjustments on your scope equal at say 2000 Meters?


Unless I go to the ocean there is nothing like you mention for a shot.

6 X 18 redfields (USA Denver) and 6.5 X 20 leupolds on the bolts. They will walk left right and up and down 1/4 MOA. The 30 cal are nosler partition or ballsitic tip 180gr, 50 gr 222 speer. All the shots out of the M1A pretty much in the same hole at 100, sierra game kings 165. The Ithaca has taken deer at 100 yds with foster slugs. M1911A1 is just good for up close, the M29 44 will flip woodchucks out to 80 yards.

I'm a hunter, not a sniper.


----------



## Coastie dad

I told you I'm not challenging. Add in the observation end of it. Not just the shooty part. It's not just about the trigger, it's also about the setup. The plan. Please. When you are teaching this, talk about some camo and concealment. Discuss some of what areas to look for not only for a clear shot, but for where someone might be observed. 
Denton spoke of cattle. To me, that says that movement of cattle would help mask my movement. We know it's usually movement that gives away a hidden position. So I'm asking you to work stuff like that in to help people learn to prepare for your scenario.

Done tolja I read all your threads even if I do get irritated sometimes. 
So....


----------



## Jakthesoldier

M118LR said:


> I haven't heard allot of counter-sniper preparation, so perhaps many haven't given thought to how far away from the doorstep is the tallest tree that you can see?


probably because snipers are not a legitimate concern for 90% of the population of the planet in any type of situation. Complex ambush maybe, shooters in the woods maybe, but snipers no.


----------



## Mad Trapper

Jakthesoldier said:


> probably because snipers are not a legitimate concern for 90% of the population of the planet in any type of situation. Complex ambush maybe, shooters in the woods maybe, but snipers no.


Yes, I'd rather be a good hunter, and I think I am. And that would be a stalker/still hunter, not a tree stander. I've stalked up to deer and wild turkeys, with a bow.

Edit. And that will go to marksmanship also. Not shooting groups off a bench, but offhand in all types of weather, light, and wind, at targets that move run jump fly and I eat


----------



## Coastie dad

Jak, look at how I brought that up before. 
Shooter in woods, firing from concealment, sort of technically a sniper.

And since I don't seem to be communicating well tonight, I'm not disagreeing with you. Im not as concerned about a trained professional as I am the amateur who may employ techniques learned on a forum.


----------



## M118LR

Coastie dad said:


> I told you I'm not challenging. Add in the observation end of it. Not just the shooty part. It's not just about the trigger, it's also about the setup. The plan. Please. When you are teaching this, talk about some camo and concealment. Discuss some of what areas to look for not only for a clear shot, but for where someone might be observed.
> Denton spoke of cattle. To me, that says that movement of cattle would help mask my movement. We know it's usually movement that gives away a hidden position. So I'm asking you to work stuff like that in to help people learn to prepare for your scenario.
> 
> Done tolja I read all your threads even if I do get irritated sometimes.
> So....


I'll toss in Mad Trapper and Jakthesoldier, but Coastie dad you are the one that tripped the trigger. I do not know how to discuss the field craft you ask about. This has always been a show me not tell me area of training. If you alert the critters sharing the the land with you, it's a failure. You have to be able to move without the critters noticing you. Watch them and they will notify you of the failures of those that hunt you. Finding a shooting position is nothing more than distance vs your call up chart. Well, you might have to add in altitude, shooting angle, temperature, and wind speed/direction. But those are all factors that you learned while training at the one way range. Like my last friend that came to the range with me, I couldn't describe in words what the mirage in your scope was, but once he witnessed it, we could relate to how it effected his shooting. The best instructor for movement that I can give you, is the critters that live in the wild. When you can move without thier notice, then you have passed the test. The wilderness is a cruel taskmaster, but you need to fool them before you can deceive others. It may not be a help, but it is a fact. Please attempt to understand. Thank You.


----------



## SDF880

22 feet using the front door and 10 feet out the bottom deck door. My house is cut into the forest and I have no real useable yard, all trees!


----------



## M118LR

SDF880 said:


> 22 feet using the front door and 10 feet out the bottom deck door. My house is cut into the forest and I have no real useable yard, all trees!


Did you notice what position the sniper was in during your photo?

The support people I took hunting in Maine jumped out of a tree and slit a Bull Moose's throat with a blade when his rifle jammed do to sleet conditions. We picked on him mercilessly because we had to pack the Moose out 12 miles to the river to float it to the butcher. He still hasn't lived it down. When would you like to hunt with him armed with nothing more than your knife?


----------



## Coastie dad

Ok, LR, you've pretty much told me what I need to know.


----------



## SDF880

M118LR said:


> Did you notice what position the sniper was in during your photo?
> 
> The support people I took hunting in Maine jumped out of a tree and slit a Bull Moose's throat with a blade when his rifle jammed do to sleet conditions. We picked on him mercilessly because we had to pack the Moose out 12 miles to the river to float it to the butcher. He still hasn't lived it down. When would you like to hunt with him armed with nothing more than your knife?


There is a tree stand hiding in that pic! I do have motion detectors all around the perimeter with different tones for which sector and they work well! Not sure what else to do there?
Neighbor has NVG and it is interesting to see what goes on at night!


----------



## M118LR

If you ain't part of what goes on during the night, what use is it?

ps: Good Night All, I've filled my full of it quota.


----------



## SDF880

The coyotes are having one big party out back tonight! Hope they don't wake up the wife!


----------



## Mad Trapper

M118LR said:


> I'll toss in Mad Trapper and Jakthesoldier, but Coastie dad you are the one that tripped the trigger. I do not know how to discuss the field craft you ask about. This has always been a show me not tell me area of training. If you alert the critters sharing the the land with you, it's a failure. You have to be able to move without the critters noticing you. Watch them and they will notify you of the failures of those that hunt you. Finding a shooting position is nothing more than distance vs your call up chart. Well, you might have to add in altitude, shooting angle, temperature, and wind speed/direction. But those are all factors that you learned while training at the one way range. Like my last friend that came to the range with me, I couldn't describe in words what the mirage in your scope was, but once he witnessed it, we could relate to how it effected his shooting. The best instructor for movement that I can give you, is the critters that live in the wild. When you can move without thier notice, then you have passed the test. The wilderness is a cruel taskmaster, but you need to fool them before you can deceive others. It may not be a help, but it is a fact. Please attempt to understand. Thank You.


I started hunting when I was 5, BB guns bows and slingshots. We learned how to stalk before I got a 22lr. Hunting is a skill that takes a long time to master.
But you need to practice. I shoot traditional BP firearms, and have embarrassed quite a few black rifle shooters with BP cap/flintlock and opens at 100 yds.

I think you will find many of the best combat vets, were started as hunters.


----------



## Boss Dog

15 feet.
OK, let's hear it. What are your preps for an invasion with sniper cover? 
And what in hell makes any of us/you so important that "PROFESSIONALS" would bother?


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> If you ain't part of what goes on during the night, what use is it?
> 
> ps: Good Night All, I've filled my full of it quota.


Funny you say that...

As far as the quota being filled, I agree. The quota has been filled. You had the opportunity to impart information. I even said I'd be your wing man, and I tried. Thing is, you couldn't cough up the goods. Sure; you caused some good thinking, but that is all. You prefer to engage with antagonists in a mysterious, "expert from afar" manner rather than actually stepping up as an instructor.

No matter what, you are simply full of crap. Whether or not you are the real deal, you seem to be worthless to others in your pathetic search for attention.

What a total waste. Go find another place to put to sleep.


----------



## Jakthesoldier

I love when people associate all the "history channel" sniper tasks with a WROL sniper.

Who the hell would someone be reporting back to? Even then, he isn't acting as a sniper, he is acting as a forward observer. People who would be "snipers" post SHTF are the same people who think that they can take on the zombie apocalypse solo.

A "sniper" is a person who shoots from a concealed position, so yes, the group attacking your camp from the wood line are all "snipers" in a sense, but that is NOT what we are talking about.

We are talking about the fictional lone wolf, who stalks up and sets up a hide to observe your camp for days, and then takes out your entire group in a few seconds with perfect between-the-eyes head shots, then takes all of your supplies back to his hidden, hand carved cave, to shave with his kabar and wipe his ass with skunk grass and hooah wipes, and jerk off to ballistics charts while clutching a fistful of dog tags he got from Walmart.


----------



## Sasquatch

M118LR said:


> I haven't heard allot of counter-sniper preparation, so perhaps many haven't given thought to how far away from the doorstep is the tallest tree that you can see?


What if one LIVES in a tree?


----------



## Coastie dad

Jakthesoldier said:


> I love when people associate all the "history channel" sniper tasks with a WROL sniper.
> 
> Who the hell would someone be reporting back to? Even then, he isn't acting as a sniper, he is acting as a forward observer. People who would be "snipers" post SHTF are the same people who think that they can take on the zombie apocalypse solo.
> 
> A "sniper" is a person who shoots from a concealed position, so yes, the group attacking your camp from the wood line are all "snipers" in a sense, but that is NOT what we are talking about.
> 
> We are talking about the fictional lone wolf, who stalks up and sets up a hide to observe your camp for days, and then takes out your entire group in a few seconds with perfect between-the-eyes head shots, then takes all of your supplies back to his hidden, hand carved cave, to shave with his kabar and wipe his ass with skunk grass and hooah wipes, and jerk off to ballistics charts while clutching a fistful of dog tags he got from Walmart.


You know, I hate it when a man holds back. We're all friends here. Tell us how ya feel.
:!:::clapping::


----------



## Jakthesoldier

Coastie dad said:


> You know, I hate it when a man holds back. We're all friends here. Tell us how ya feel.
> :!:::clapping::


#nofilter


----------



## A Watchman

M118LR said:


> John Galt, at what point does actual minimum sniper specification cross the line into your video fantasy? (excuse me, I have now crossed into an area of monitoring that no longer allows me to correspond) Big Brother is monitoring me! For Y'all's sake I'll need to sit the pine. Sorry.


Or is it time to bug out?



acidMia said:


> I am in awe. You guys think of everything.


So are we Mia.


----------



## acidMia

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> most of us here will tell you to consider the things that will likely kill you before a sniper does.. namely water.... have a good source of water.. then look for sniper hides...


Water is definitely higher on my list than sniper hides


----------



## Slippy

Thanks @M118LR

I appreciate your insight and look forward to more.

Your friend,

Slippy:vs_wave:


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Denton said:


> Funny you say that...
> 
> As far as the quota being filled, I agree. The quota has been filled. You had the opportunity to impart information. I even said I'd be your wing man, and I tried. Thing is, you couldn't cough up the goods. Sure; you caused some good thinking, but that is all. You prefer to engage with antagonists in a mysterious, "expert from afar" manner rather than actually stepping up as an instructor.
> 
> No matter what, you are simply full of crap. Whether or not you are the real deal, you seem to be worthless to others in your pathetic search for attention.
> 
> What a total waste. Go find another place to put to sleep.


Somehow these threads remind me of places like this
www.facebook.com/groups/SFPoserPatrol

:tango_face_wink:


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Why does he have such a low opinion of snipers? to assume they would roam the countryside killing everyone they can and laying in a field for a week at a time because they can.. why wouldn't they be smart enough to find employment in a group and use their craft for good? seems like a much more lucrative and honest line of work than being an assassin of 1 for survival. I suppose after you kill enough women and children defending their farm from 1500meters you kind of become numb to life.. seems like a miserable way to ride out the SHTF.. why bother?


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Well, then there are the Chairborne Rangers of the 47th Recliner Brigade.


----------



## SGT E

106 yards
Black Walnut at 54 feet high


Bought to you by a 1000 Yard Laser Rangfinder and MATH!


----------



## Coastie dad

rice paddy daddy said:


> Well, then there are the Chairborne Rangers of the 47th Recliner Brigade.


Vision appears in my mind's eye of the crew served popcorn machine, and pulling the tabs from beer cans with your teeth...the clicking of the keyboard like the staccato rhythm of my m17, the 43 caliber brass clattering off the ground as my video screen becomes a playground of slaughter and pixelated gore!
Oh! The humanity of it all...
How shall I ever adjust to the duality of my life? Forever hiding my demigod status amongst the unwashed and unenlightened?
I know.....I'll get on the internet......:vs_karate:


----------



## Arklatex

So are we supposed to learn anything on this thread other than how far away folks trees are from their homes? OP, what exactly are you trying to teach here? Seems like all you do is reply vaguely about how you might have been a sniper at some point. So tell us. What have YOU done to prepare for it...


----------



## Denton

Arklatex said:


> So are we supposed to learn anything on this thread other than how far away folks trees are from their homes? OP, what exactly are you trying to teach here? Seems like all you do is reply vaguely about how you might have been a sniper at some point. So tell us. What have YOU done to prepare for it...


Don't question the Great And Mighty M118LR!


----------



## Tennessee

I don’t understand the need to worry about trained snippers (tree height LOL) when most homes in my area are not designed to be defended by anyone with a high-power rifle.

I’m more worried about the untrained/unprepared folks that will gather and try to take folks stuff by force. Most of them are too lazy to climb a tree.


----------



## hawgrider

I don't know I think he has a point .... we really should watch for tree Snipers.


----------



## Coastie dad

I wanna be a chair borne ranger,
Live my life without no danger.
Don't wanna go to Viet Nam,
Wanna stay in the basement under my mom....

(And variations of the above...)


----------



## Maine-Marine

NotTooProudToHide said:


> Snipers are way down on my list of worries. Home Invasion/Mugging are far more likely scenarios


On my list of worries, Snipers rate slightly above parachuting russian zombie motorcycle gangs


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Coastie dad said:


> I wanna be a chair borne ranger,
> Live my life without no danger.
> Don't wanna go to Viet Nam,
> Wanna stay in the basement under my mom....
> 
> (And variations of the above...)


Very good!!:devil:

You're showing your age, CD. :tango_face_smile:

(Only those who did Army Basic in the 60's would know that ditty):vs_music:


----------



## Denton

rice paddy daddy said:


> Very good!!:devil:
> 
> You're showing your age, CD. :tango_face_smile:
> 
> (Only those who did Army Basic in the 60's would know that ditty):vs_music:


Or, had drill sergeants who were in Vietnam.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

I'd say 2 people with some way to communicate would do well vs a single sniper especially if you know where exactly where he is. One person stays under cover and keeps his attention while the other takes the long way around, and flanks him. Then your sniper is in real trouble, two people two different directions both gunning for him.


----------



## SOCOM42

rice paddy daddy said:


> Very good!!:devil:
> 
> You're showing your age, CD. :tango_face_smile:
> 
> (Only those who did Army Basic in the 60's would know that ditty):vs_music:


Ahh, yup.


----------



## SOCOM42

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I'd say 2 people with some way to communicate would do well vs a single sniper especially if you know where exactly where he is. One person stays under cover and keeps his attention while the other takes the long way around, and flanks him. Then your sniper is in real trouble, two people two different directions both gunning for him.


If you know where he is, he deserves to be killed.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

SOCOM42 said:


> If you know where he is, he deserves to be killed.


If there's a sniper in my neighborhood taking shots at civilians minding their own business he deserves to be killed. Like I said before though I'm not worried about snipers and I'm really not worried about military trained snipers.


----------



## SittingElf

M118LR said:


> Well Chipper, at what distance can you keep all your shoots inside of a ten inch circle at with that 300 Win Mag? And will it be far enough to reach the top of the tallest tree you can possibly see?


1000 Yards minimum. (Barret 98Bravo Tactical 300WM with Nightforce glass that I use for F-Class comps)

As they say in Africa...."No Wahala" ("No Problem")


----------



## A Watchman

Maine-Marine said:


> On my list of worries, Snipers rate slightly above parachuting russian zombie motorcycle gangs


MM ....... um good buddy ....... you left off from the Southern States.


----------



## SittingElf

SGT E said:


> 106 yards
> Black Walnut at 54 feet high
> 
> Bought to you by a 1000 Yard Laser Rangfinder and MATH!


Geez...you need to cut that black walnut tree down for safety. Tell you what, I'll come and get it for ya! No charge....heh heh


----------



## Mad Trapper

SittingElf said:


> Geez...you need to cut that black walnut tree down for safety. Tell you what, I'll come and get it for ya! No charge....heh heh


Too far from me but I've got a mill.


----------



## jim-henscheli

FYI, Trying to use 25X binoculars 60' up in a tree is almost impossible due to the tree's tiny movements. Try it sometime.

The solution there is just to find a larger rack at the same distance:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


----------



## 8301

M118LR said:


> I'll give Atenolol a nod, but I'll bet you can't pull a trigger between heartbeats. Without a drug. Nor have you ever attempted this like every sniper candidate to scratch the mark, or passed the test. But yet you want to beat your chest like someone that did the dirty deed. So now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of realism. All you never have been, think you could have made it, and want to express your opinions, to the folk's that made it and did it! .......
> This is the time for Y'all to express your opinions.
> ..............................................................................


Actually back when I did a lot of target shooting I worked up to NRA small bore 4th level Masters badge and was well on the way towards getting the 5th level. It took about 3 years to work up to that level shooting at least 400 rnds a week which is both expensive and time consuming. That's also when I started reloading in an effort both to save money and to develop more accurate rounds for the 270 and 30 cal.

Target shooting is a great sport but can take a lot of time.

So Bug,,, When is the last time you climbed high up in a tree and shot at somebody?


----------



## Coastie dad

Denton said:


> Or, had drill sergeants who were in Vietnam.


And it's Denton for the win! Missed SEA, but all my DIs had been there and taught the tactics for surviving jungle warfare. That part of the world was still smoking in places. But all my infantry and recon training was taught by Viet Nam vets.


----------



## Slippy

Coastie dad said:


> I wanna be a chair borne ranger,
> Live my life without no danger.
> Don't wanna go to Viet Nam,
> Wanna stay in the basement under my mom....
> 
> (And variations of the above...)





rice paddy daddy said:


> Very good!!:devil:
> 
> You're showing your age, CD. :tango_face_smile:
> 
> (Only those who did Army Basic in the 60's would know that ditty):vs_music:


...Or those who saw some stupid movie called The Breakfast Club in 1985...:vs_blush:


----------



## Auntie

Okay, I just read 12 pages and I have a question. Why would a sniper want to hit someone in or around my little house? Why wouldn't they want to infiltrate a place that offered them more than my little homestead has. I am more concerned with the unprepared people.


----------



## Coastie dad

Slippy said:


> ...Or those who saw some stupid movie called The Breakfast Club in 1985...:vs_blush:


Negatory, red Ryder! That ditty was taught to me by a guy in od green who also taught me how to lure yellow birds to my window sill.....


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

Auntie said:


> Okay, I just read 12 pages and I have a question. Why would a sniper want to hit someone in or around my little house? Why wouldn't they want to infiltrate a place that offered them more than my little homestead has. I am more concerned with the unprepared people.


That question was posed to the OP who replied with something along the lines of professional door kickers wont attack you without an overwatch and what are you going to do when they come for your food and guns.


----------



## Auntie

Give them a nice home cooked meal with the special spices I have.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

Auntie said:


> Give them a nice home cooked meal with the special spices I have.


I was thinking about throwing them some athletic tape to splint their broken foot after kicking my door


----------



## 8301

Ok, While I doubt there will be any "snipers" looking to take a shot in my direction if things really got that bad and you needed to maintain strong security I guess whoever is providing "over watch" on the property could keep an eye out for trees that are shaking violently as some fool attempts to climb them.

So I guess we all need to build a church steeple on our houses so we can have a good over watch position. I think that's the wisdom Bug was trying to share with us. I think I'll add a recliner and coffee maker to the over watch room inside the steeple.

Ever treed a ****? They are generally stuck in that tree and an easy target.


----------



## Smitty901

John Galt said:


> Ok, While I doubt there will be any "snipers" looking to take a shot in my direction if things really got that bad and you needed to maintain strong security I guess whoever is providing "over watch" on the property could keep an eye out for trees that are shaking violently as some fool attempts to climb them.
> 
> So I guess we all need to build a church steeple on our houses so we can have a good over watch position. I think that's the wisdom Bug was trying to share with us. I think I'll add a recliner and coffee maker to the over watch room inside the steeple.
> 
> Ever treed a ****? They are generally stuck in that tree and an easy target.


 No Steeple, but do have range cards for every bit of the property


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

think snipers are bad? lightening can get you from a storm 10 miles away.... top that!!! Be Prepared!!


----------



## M118LR

Slippy said:


> Thanks @M118LR
> 
> I appreciate your insight and look forward to more.
> 
> Your friend,
> 
> Slippy:vs_wave:


Well slippy, the Strategy is to make the shot as difficult as possible. Whenever possible a shooter will maneuver into a direct upwind or downwind position. Crosswinds can be adjusted for, but they do complicate the shot. The object is to inject enough variables that a slight amount of error can have enough of an effect to allow the first shot to be errant. Low sun angles also complicate the shot, so early mourning stay east of prime hide locations. Likewise, late afternoon stay west of prime hide locations. A simple weather vane will let you know what the direction of the prevailing wind is, and it isn't going to divulge what the wind speed is. Police (Keep clean) up any items that will assist a marksman with determining wind speed. Blaze trees from your angle of vision every hundred yards towards a suspected hide location. With today's extra high power precision rifles many things that once where cover are now merely concealment, but a stone wall along a route into a position away from the most logical hide can be effective concealment. Glass suspected hide locations at least daily if SHTF. Never fall into a pattern of timed movement. Zig-zag instead of bee-lining when making movements. Utilize every exit to/from your abode every day, and don't repeat a sequence.

Standard infantry procedures such as bounding overwatch can be attempted if your group is large enough and you don't mind a few casualties. Of course the best counter sniper move is to have your own trained sniper, but they eat allot and are kind of grumpy. Hope this breaks the ice on the anti-sniper strategy Slippy.


----------



## Prepared One

So....13 pages...and we have learned...............


----------



## acidMia

Prepared One said:


> So....13 pages...and we have learned...............


 I learned I need to learn a lot more about being prepared


----------



## M118LR

Auntie said:


> Okay, I just read 12 pages and I have a question. Why would a sniper want to hit someone in or around my little house? Why wouldn't they want to infiltrate a place that offered them more than my little homestead has. I am more concerned with the unprepared people.


Auntie, how many people on these pages have a siege mentality? (whole up and pile up the brass until every last hostile is dead) Faked frontal assaults, allow all attention to be distracted from any sniper. If you have reason to believe that others shall want what's on your homestead, enough to adopt a siege posture, eventually some manner of sniper is going to be introduced to the scenario.


----------



## Prepared One

acidMia said:


> I learned I need to learn a lot more about being prepared


You will do fine. Worry more about the likely scenarios and immediate needs and less about the remote or unlikely. Prioritize.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

M118LR said:


> Auntie, how many people on these pages have a siege mentality? (whole up and pile up the brass until every last hostile is dead) Faked frontal assaults, allow all attention to be distracted from any sniper. If you have reason to believe that others shall want what's on your homestead, enough to adopt a siege posture, eventually some manner of sniper is going to be introduced to the scenario.


I think your mistaken, I'm sure some people have that mentality but its a foolish one to have. If it got to the point where I had to start worrying about snipers I would more than likely be on my way out of town unless it was a nation wide thing. I'd much rather be a Comanche than an Alamo defender.


----------



## M118LR

John Galt said:


> Ok, While I doubt there will be any "snipers" looking to take a shot in my direction if things really got that bad and you needed to maintain strong security I guess whoever is providing "over watch" on the property could keep an eye out for trees that are shaking violently as some fool attempts to climb them.
> 
> So I guess we all need to build a church steeple on our houses so we can have a good over watch position. I think that's the wisdom Bug was trying to share with us. I think I'll add a recliner and coffee maker to the over watch room inside the steeple.
> 
> Ever treed a ****? They are generally stuck in that tree and an easy target.


We have a resident historian, RPD would you care to enlighten John Galt on how the Japanese and Germans deployed thier snipers. Perhaps you could even dig up how the greatest generation responded.


----------



## SOCOM42

m118lr said:


> we have a resident historian, rpd would you care to enlighten john galt on how the japanese and germans deployed thier snipers. Perhaps you could even dig up how the greatest generation responded.


Army, ranger front, with an M1D or an 03A4 with Cal 30 APM2.

Marines, S/S with a 03A1 with a 10X Unertl target scope and CAL 30 APM2..

Secondary for both was either a 76MM mounted on a Sherman or a 37MM on a Stewart.

Both normally used AP shot for anti sniper roll.


----------



## Coastie dad

There were seven prepper angels at the altar of the son.
They were praying for the sniper, in the valley of the gun.
When the battle stopped and the smoke cleared,
There was thunder from the throne.
And seven prepper angels sent another sniper home.


----------



## Maine-Marine

NotTooProudToHide said:


> If it got to the point where I had to start worrying about snipers I would more than likely be on my way out of town unless it was a nation wide thing. I'd much rather be a Comanche than an Alamo defender.


I agree 
Why on God's green earth would a SNIPER spend days scoping out a place if he did not know they had food.. chances are they would starve before they found one worth sniping!!!


----------



## Operator6

Maine-Marine said:


> I agree
> Why on God's green earth would a SNIPER spend days scoping out a place if he did not know they had food.. chances are they would starve before they found one worth sniping!!!


Ambition and goals ? That's what keeps me going. I could understand a criminals reasoning if he has the opportunity/ability to kill a few people and maybe, just maybe make a big score. If not, so what, he just moves on or takes over the homestead for himself to use or sell.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

Operator6 said:


> Ambition and goals ? That's what keeps me going. I could understand a criminals reasoning if he has the opportunity/ability to kill a few people and maybe, just maybe make a big score. If not, so what, he just moves on or takes over the homestead for himself to use or sell.


He would have a very short life then. People tend to notice when this kind of stuff goes on and around here at least they don't take too kindly to murderers.


----------



## New guy 101

M118LR said:


> If you ain't part of what goes on during the night, what use is it?
> 
> ps: Good Night All, I've filled my full of it quota.


And filled most of ours too.


----------



## New guy 101

M118LR said:


> Auntie, how many people on these pages have a siege mentality? (whole up and pile up the brass until every last hostile is dead) Faked frontal assaults, allow all attention to be distracted from any sniper. If you have reason to believe that others shall want what's on your homestead, enough to adopt a siege posture, eventually some manner of sniper is going to be introduced to the scenario.


M118LR, To answer the overall question from my perspective is...I do not prep in my current location for a Sniper or any tactical ground assault. My plans involve immediately leaving and going to another place.

So let me forego the, I don't expect a sniper threat to top my list thought, and jump right to a scenario where I fear it. At that moment, I'm in a siege mentality and every step outside is a choice to risk my life. I will act accordingly. I cannot envision a reason I would ever dwell in a place where I suspected Snipers where out to get me...and I have alternate locations I would go to.

My number one anticipated assailant would be government. Where they will have armored vehicles, aircraft, etc, and a host of armed men to come for me...With that in mind it is not prudent for me to clear cut, out to a 1000 yards, any escape routes... It is preferable to have concealed routes from both across the ground and from the air, so trees are my friend.

I understand that a single individual with a mediocre degree of marksmanship could clip my wings from a good distance. I combat this by reducing any overt reason to come around me. I have a slew of things I can do to discourage the lone gunman...early warning, booby traps, etc.

SOme things you added make sense...Watching prevailing winds to understand where a gunman may be.

I would have liked to see this presented as a simple case study with points made to explain conditions and reactions...vice the "Your all gonna die...because your not me" manner it was presented.

In closing let me say that In a SHTF situation, if your alone or in a very small group, your best defense is to remain unnoticed and unworthy of attention. As a large group you can afford to expand your boundaries and patrol, yet you will always be at risk from a lone gunman. Other than that...stock up a cave with a lifetime of supplies and seal off the entrance....then your only worry will be a breaching team, or bunker buster missles, and of course, retaining your mind.

Thanks for giving us some incite (pun) into the problem set....please try to do that in the future somewhere closer to post 1, vice page 13. I nearly missed the good points you made due to the drama leading up to it...


----------



## M118LR

Well I'm glad Y'all logged aboard. I asked only what have Y'all done to prepare for the time when a Sniper crossed your path. Most all of Y'all whined, cried, sniveled, and demanded the magic pill that would keep you safe. The simple truth of the matter is Y'all ain't gonna be safe. Better expect a 15 to 1 causality rate if Y'all just take the time to inspect your property. Those like Denton that expected me to give him a silver bullet, it don't work that way. Those that expected me to tell them how to move undetected, gear up and jog a couple of miles from home. Now sneak your way back while having the children sit in the yard with a pair of Bino's. If any of the neighbors animals alert to your presence you fail, try again. If you get close but the children with bino's spot you, you fail start again. Now continue that until you can do it successfully 10 of 10 times. Those of you that demanded what I have done for anti-sniper measures, I have a fully trained sniper on staff and a precision rifle-person to back him up.
So if it's time to launch the ready?








This isn't about me or what I did, it's all about you and what you are going to do. Nothing in all these pages is of importance to my response to a sniper, perhaps you should take a moment to reflect on how this may assist you when and if you trip cross hairs with a Sniper. I can lead the horse to water, I shall not attempt to make it drink. Your failures could well be my gains. Just a little perspective. :vs_smirk:


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> Well slippy, the Strategy is to make the shot as difficult as possible. Whenever possible a shooter will maneuver into a direct upwind or downwind position. Crosswinds can be adjusted for, but they do complicate the shot. The object is to inject enough variables that a slight amount of error can have enough of an effect to allow the first shot to be errant. Low sun angles also complicate the shot, so early mourning stay east of prime hide locations. Likewise, late afternoon stay west of prime hide locations. A simple weather vane will let you know what the direction of the prevailing wind is, and it isn't going to divulge what the wind speed is. Police (Keep clean) up any items that will assist a marksman with determining wind speed. Blaze trees from your angle of vision every hundred yards towards a suspected hide location. With today's extra high power precision rifles many things that once where cover are now merely concealment, but a stone wall along a route into a position away from the most logical hide can be effective concealment. Glass suspected hide locations at least daily if SHTF. Never fall into a pattern of timed movement. Zig-zag instead of bee-lining when making movements. Utilize every exit to/from your abode every day, and don't repeat a sequence.
> 
> Standard infantry procedures such as bounding overwatch can be attempted if your group is large enough and you don't mind a few casualties. Of course the best counter sniper move is to have your own trained sniper, but they eat allot and are kind of grumpy. Hope this breaks the ice on the anti-sniper strategy Slippy.


Finally!
Akin to pulling chicken teeth.


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> Well I'm glad Y'all logged aboard. I asked only what have Y'all done to prepare for the time when a Sniper crossed your path. Most all of Y'all whined, cried, sniveled, and demanded the magic pill that would keep you safe. The simple truth of the matter is Y'all ain't gonna be safe. Better expect a 15 to 1 causality rate if Y'all just take the time to inspect your property. Those like Denton that expected me to give him a silver bullet, it don't work that way. Those that expected me to tell them how to move undetected, gear up and jog a couple of miles from home. Now sneak your way back while having the children sit in the yard with a pair of Bino's. If any of the neighbors animals alert to your presence you fail, try again. If you get close but the children with bino's spot you, you fail start again. Now continue that until you can do it successfully 10 of 10 times. Those of you that demanded what I have done for anti-sniper measures, I have a fully trained sniper on staff and a precision rifle-person to back him up.
> So if it's time to launch the ready?
> View attachment 20369
> 
> 
> This isn't about me or what I did, it's all about you and what you are going to do. Nothing in all these pages is of importance to my response to a sniper, perhaps you should take a moment to reflect on how this may assist you when and if you trip cross hairs with a Sniper. I can lead the horse to water, I shall not attempt to make it drink. Your failures could well be my gains. Just a little perspective. :vs_smirk:


No; I expected you to say something worthwhile instead of wasting time and many pages. This might blow your mind, but some of us don't have a lot of time to waste. 
For the amount of stupid crap, the knowledge could have been gleaned elsewhere by those who need it.


----------



## New guy 101

Remember the guy that asked about "how would you attack my Storage container castle with his paid up members within, and the unpaid peasants laboring about outside??? 
That was a good time discussion back in the day.....


----------



## Coastie dad

So in other words, you didn't teach anything, just another attempt at telling us how you are the end all to everything.
Does the crap you're full of soften the recoil ?

You couldn't give direct instruction without silly word games and a condescending attitude. Gee, I wasn't a sniper, so my life has been wasted.

You screwed over a perfectly interesting topic with your look at me, ain't I sumthin ways.

Why can't you just be a regular guy and share stuff without acting like a horse's behind? Denton, RPD, and a lot of other guys do. I didn't ask for instruction on how to do something I was trained to do, but I asked you to share from a different perspective than mine because you claim to be a professional and expert. 

Like I said, you told me all i need to know.


----------



## M118LR

Denton said:


> No; I expected you to say something worthwhile instead of wasting time and many pages. This might blow your mind, but some of us don't have a lot of time to waste.
> For the amount of stupid crap, the knowledge could have been gleaned elsewhere by those who need it.


Prior to this thread oh great and wonderful oz, had you bothered to take the time to confront what a single sniper could do to the years worth of preparing that you have labored upon? Yep, you prepared for that all along, that's why you expected me to give you the placebo that let you sleep well at night. There wasn't any waste of your time unless you are foolish enough not to act on the information that I have taken the time and abuse to share with Y'all. Now if you have decided to take a few days and trot out to the Red Cloud Range and show me how you intend to ward off a Sniper or two? Then I'll take notice of your unprepossessing criticism. Can you quote the elevation required on your best scope/rifle combo to reach 1500 Meters? Is your combo able to dial in that min spec range. These are rhetorical questions Denton. I already know the answers, but you can prove me wrong at the 1500 meter line at least once every month.


----------



## M118LR

Coastie dad said:


> So in other words, you didn't teach anything, just another attempt at telling us how you are the end all to everything.
> Does the crap you're full of soften the recoil ?
> 
> You couldn't give direct instruction without silly word games and a condescending attitude. Gee, I wasn't a sniper, so my life has been wasted.
> 
> You screwed over a perfectly interesting topic with your look at me, ain't I sumthin ways.
> 
> Why can't you just be a regular guy and share stuff without acting like a horse's behind? Denton, RPD, and a lot of other guys do. I didn't ask for instruction on how to do something I was trained to do, but I asked you to share from a different perspective than mine because you claim to be a professional and expert.
> 
> Like I said, you told me all i need to know.


Coastie dad you did receive direct instruction. You just failed to act upon it. Don't attempt to pin your failure to execute on me. Jog a few miles up the road geared up and sneak back home. When you succeed 10 of 10 times then we can converse again. Until then, it's your problem not mine. Comprehend. (Perhaps that's a bit to rough) You should explore the experience of stalking until you can perform it. It don't even cost you anything.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

M118LR said:


> Prior to this thread oh great and wonderful oz, had you bothered to take the time to confront what a single sniper could do to the years worth of preparing that you have labored upon? Yep, you prepared for that all along, that's why you expected me to give you the placebo that let you sleep well at night. There wasn't any waste of your time unless you are foolish enough not to act on the information that I have taken the time and abuse to share with Y'all. Now if you have decided to take a few days and trot out to the Red Cloud Range and show me how you intend to ward off a Sniper or two? Then I'll take notice of your unprepossessing criticism. Can you quote the elevation required on your best scope/rifle combo to reach 1500 Meters? Is your combo able to dial in that min spec range. These are rhetorical questions Denton. I already know the answers, but you can prove me wrong at the 1500 meter line at least once every month.


I don't have to shoot 1500 meters to defeat a sniper. Like I said one member keeps em distracted while the others flank and set up a cross fire situation. All the sudden you only have a couple hundred meter shot A couple guys properly positioned with AR-15's will wreck a snipers day. You might even try the Vasily Zaytsev glove trick to get em to show their position


----------



## M118LR

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I don't have to shoot 1500 meters to defeat a sniper. Like I said one member keeps em distracted while the others flank and set up a cross fire situation. All the sudden you only have a couple hundred meter shot A couple guys properly positioned with AR-15's will wreck a snipers day. You might even try the Vasily Zaytsev glove trick to get em to show their position


NTPTH, you got 1500 meters to traverse while under a Snipers glass, you better get 15 friends that are willing and able to sacrifice thier lives so that you have a chance to take one shot while under fire from the sniper you thought you were going to dispatch. You can say all you want, tombstones are filled with quotes. Better check with those folks that toted M-4's about how many snipers they dispatched in all thier tours. JMHO.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

M118LR said:


> NTPTH, you got 1500 meters to traverse while under a Snipers glass, you better get 15 friends that are willing and able to sacrifice thier lives so that you have a chance to take one shot while under fire from the sniper you thought you were going to dispatch. You can say all you want, tombstones are filled with quotes. Better check with those folks that toted M-4's about how many snipers they dispatched in all thier tours. JMHO.


Thats cool. Obviously we don't agree so I'll do my thing should the situation come up and you do yours.

I'd like to add that this scenario is an example of why a drone with an infrared camera might be a good investment for those with the money. A good drone with a camera mount is pricey and an infrared camera is really pricey but they would be perfect for counter sniper and counter intruder should you have an area to defend. Watch the camera while your in flight then analyze the data when after you land it. I believe you can program them to fly to predetermined way points as well so you don't have to expose yourself to enemy fire.


----------



## 8301

This thread is getting boring,,, the Bug seem to keep repeating himself. 
Maybe he just likes the sound of his voice.

Anybody got and Raid bug spray?


----------



## M118LR

John Galt said:


> This thread is getting boring,,, the Bug seem to keep repeating himself.
> Maybe he just likes the sound of his voice.
> 
> Anybody got and Raid bug spray?


I was just wondering how you have handled a situation like this, even on your Play Station Controller. But life in Mom's Basement is safe and comfortable. So type away bored kibitzer. Your in GA, I can and will travel to a point that you can lecture/school me.


----------



## M118LR

NotTooProudToHide said:


> Thats cool. Obviously we don't agree so I'll do my thing should the situation come up and you do yours.
> 
> I'd like to add that this scenario is an example of why a drone with an infrared camera might be a good investment for those with the money. A good drone with a camera mount is pricey and an infrared camera is really pricey but they would be perfect for counter sniper and counter intruder should you have an area to defend. Watch the camera while your in flight then analyze the data when after you land it. I believe you can program them to fly to predetermined way points as well so you don't have to expose yourself to enemy fire.


I am so sorry NTPTH, isn't any Arty or Air Support left that you can call upon. I was hoping that you had the sense to glean from simple combat infantry folks on how they handled the situation. Take the time to glean information from those veterans that survived said situations. Perhaps even serve thier families a pancake or two! I can't even muster the energy to give you a shaking head emoji. Disappointing.


----------



## 8301

M118LR said:


> I was just wondering how you have handled a situation like this, even on your Play Station Controller. But life in Mom's Basement is safe and comfortable. So type away bored kibitzer. Your in GA, I can and will travel to a point that you can lecture/school me.


OMG, My life's ambition is about to be fulfilled!!! A wanna-be terrorist sniper is going to visit. And to think this idiot posted a map with directions to his home on this site about 6 months ago. What an idiot!
I'm smiling so hard my face hurts; Laughing so hard I've got tears in my eyes. What an idiot!


----------



## 8301

If you show up here keep in mind that any coward can shoot someone in the back. I believe they used to call cowards "Yellow Bellied Back Shooters" didn't they?

Go back to your fantasies you flat footed wanna-be.


----------



## M118LR

John Galt said:


> OMG, My life's ambition is about to be fulfilled!!! A wanna-be terrorist sniper is going to visit. And to think this idiot posted a map with directions to his home on this site about 6 months ago. What an idiot!
> I'm smiling so hard my face hurts; Laughing so hard I've got tears in my eyes. What an idiot!


Stop up and see me sometime "Big Boy". You have an invitation to make your day. Bring it, don't sing it loser. But Combat Infantry don't get butt hurt. USMC 0311 riflemen don't badmouth 8541 Scout Snipers, but since you need to google all of the above, want a ten digit to lead you to my hide?


----------



## Denton

M118LR said:


> Prior to this thread oh great and wonderful oz, had you bothered to take the time to confront what a single sniper could do to the years worth of preparing that you have labored upon? Yep, you prepared for that all along, that's why you expected me to give you the placebo that let you sleep well at night. There wasn't any waste of your time unless you are foolish enough not to act on the information that I have taken the time and abuse to share with Y'all. Now if you have decided to take a few days and trot out to the Red Cloud Range and show me how you intend to ward off a Sniper or two? Then I'll take notice of your unprepossessing criticism. Can you quote the elevation required on your best scope/rifle combo to reach 1500 Meters? Is your combo able to dial in that min spec range. These are rhetorical questions Denton. I already know the answers, but you can prove me wrong at the 1500 meter line at least once every month.


Meeting you anywhere has nothing to do with the fact that you claim to be a grand sniper but all you do is expel gas while imparting little knowledge. 
For some reason you actually think you contribute a lot.

All you can tell us is how wonderful a shot you are but you say little else. You'd think you'd know the difference between a marksman and a sniper.

Call me up when you are perched at the top of a tree. I'll bring the camera. We'll all have a laugh.

This has been a waste, for the most part. Life is really too short for those who aren't entertained by blowhards.


----------



## M118LR

John Galt said:


> If you show up here keep in mind that any coward can shoot someone in the back. I believe they used to call cowards "Yellow Bellied Back Shooters" didn't they?
> 
> Go back to your fantasies you flat footed wanna-be.


You neglected to have the courage to give me your ten digit John Galt. So beat your chest all you dare. But small fry in the shallow pond aren't worth getting out of BUDS and hitting the big pond for. I told you where I could be found, balls in your court.


----------



## 8301

M118LR said:


> Stop up and see me sometime "Big Boy". You have an invitation to make your day. Bring it, don't sing it loser. But Combat Infantry don't get butt hurt. USMC 0311 riflemen don't badmouth 8541 Scout Snipers, but since you need to google all of the above, want a ten digit to lead you to my hide?


Gotta pass on this one. I've found your threats mildly amusing but like most adults I've learned that sometimes we must ignore what the children say. And didn't you offer to come up and teach me? Even I don't think you're that stupid.

I enjoy living life, not living in a fantasy world. People like you give people who prepare a bad name.

And what does my phone number have to do with this conversation? I already have enough telemarketers calling.


----------



## M118LR

Denton said:


> Meeting you anywhere has nothing to do with the fact that you claim to be a grand sniper but all you do is expel gas while imparting little knowledge.
> For some reason you actually think you contribute a lot.
> 
> All you can tell us is how wonderful a shot you are but you say little else. You'd think you'd know the difference between a marksman and a sniper.
> 
> Call me up when you are perched at the top of a tree. I'll bring the camera. We'll all have a laugh.
> 
> This has been a waste, for the most part. Life is really too short for those who aren't entertained by blowhards.


I offered you an opportunity to come to the Red Cloud Range and gain some hands on knowledge Denton, but you have proven yourself to be nothing more than a Charlatan. Want to explain why all the Rangers have a system to climb trees? Perhaps you should also hit the google function. Maybe even a couple of lessons on how to steady a rifle on or beside a tree would Humble you a little. Want the references to army manuals from a Navy guy? Pshaw!!!!!!!


----------



## Coastie dad

M118LR said:


> Coastie dad you did receive direct instruction. You just failed to act upon it. Don't attempt to pin your failure to execute on me. Jog a few miles up the road geared up and sneak back home. When you succeed 10 of 10 times then we can converse again. Until then, it's your problem not mine. Comprehend. (Perhaps that's a bit to rough) You should explore the experience of stalking until you can perform it. It don't even cost you anything.


You are so focused on your inflated self worth. I tried to get across to you I have stalked. 
You are the type that derives pleasure from argument to appease your own I secure nature. I tried. I wasted time with you. Go try to blow smoke up someone else's behind.


----------



## New guy 101

Just an ad from the internet...apropos of nothing whatsoever....

The latest in greatest in Noise suppression...


----------



## M118LR

Coastie dad said:


> You are so focused on your inflated self worth. I tried to get across to you I have stalked.
> You are the type that derives pleasure from argument to appease your own I secure nature. I tried. I wasted time with you. Go try to blow smoke up someone else's behind.


What trophy did you claim at the end of your stalk Coastie? How many teeth are on your necklace? I'm not dishing you, just questioning your Bona Fides.


----------



## M118LR

New guy 101 said:


> Just an ad from the internet...apropos of nothing whatever....
> 
> The latest in greatest in Noise suppression...
> View attachment 20377


Your loss. Can't answer a rhetorical to yourself. Didn't need to impress anyone. It was all about your learning curve. Fail as many times as you wish. Brag about it so many times that you think it's true. All I asked is what have you done, nothing more or less. It's your life, toss it away as you wish.


----------



## New guy 101

M118LR said:


> Your loss. Can't answer a rhetorical to yourself. Didn't need to impress anyone. It was all about your learning curve. Fail as many times as you wish. Brag about it so many times that you think it's true. All I asked is what have you done, nothing more or less. It's your life, toss it away as you wish.


I answered big fella...Trust me I got no issues with answering, and all the experience I need to back up what I say...I was just offering some advice of my own to some of my fellow forum members who Fecal-ometers end a few MPH short of mine...mine came off a crotch rocket so it loves the high pitch whine of red lining engine...

Not trying to pick a fight cause I left my Shakespearean to ******* pocket guide in the jeep outside, and I'm in my underoos going to bed. But if you have run out of fresh folks to debate with I'm here...but we gotta set some ground rules...what topic, what era, what location, and what super hero are we pretending to be?

Answer me that first puddin and I'll play patti-cake wit cha


----------



## M118LR

John Galt said:


> Gotta pass on this one. I've found your threats mildly amusing but like most adults I've learned that sometimes we must ignore what the children say. And didn't you offer to come up and teach me? Even I don't think you're that stupid.
> 
> I enjoy living life, not living in a fantasy world. People like you give people who prepare a bad name.
> 
> And what does my phone number have to do with this conversation? I already have enough telemarketers calling.


Can't help it if you don't know the difference between a phone number and a Geo coordinate. But you need to learn the difference between a threat and a chance to experience hands on training. As an adult I think you need to reassess your experience level. But your failures ain't my problems. Prior Planned Piss Poor Training ain't my problem, it's just your training. Too Bad So Sad, don't waste your dime calling Dad.


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## Coastie dad

M118LR said:


> What trophy did you claim at the end of your stalk Coastie? How many teeth are on your necklace? I'm not dishing you, just questioning your Bona Fides.


Ooohhh.....there's the tough talk again....sound like those teen boys in Juvie.

You know, I'm kind of enjoying this. You have to beat your own chest and play Billy badass on the keyboard.... like you having teeth on a necklace makes me want to provide my bona fide to you? 
Ha ha ha ha! You try to stir stuff up so someone will talk to you? 
You pathetic little man. Do you play at sniper as a way to make yourself feel superior to all those jocks in high school who made your life miserable? 
Is this how you prove to yourself you have some value?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.....
Yes, Im understanding more now....

All the best to you, sniper bug. All the best.


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## M118LR

New guy 101 said:


> I answered big fella...Trust me I got no issues with answering, and all the experience I need to back up what I say...I was just offering some advice of my own to some of my fellow forum members who Fecal-ometers end a few MPH short of mine...mine came off a crotch rocket so it loves the high pitch whine of red lining engine...
> 
> Not trying to pick a fight cause I left my Shakespearean to ******* pocket guide in the jeep outside, and I'm in my underoos going to bed. But if you have run out of fresh folks to debate with I'm here...but we gotta set some ground rules...what topic, what era, what location, and what super hero are we pretending to be?
> 
> Answer me that first puddin and I'll play patti-cake wit cha


I can't explain how grateful I am that you answered a rhetorical question New guy 101. Perhaps you should take a second to look this up. All I asked is what have you done to alleviate a sniper conflict. So Sorry that I can't get through to the hardest of headed folks. Conceptual thinking is so far out of the box.


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## Coastie dad




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## ffparamedic

Does anyone remember when I joined this forum and started calling this dumbass out on his bullshit??

Why hasn't someone kicked him Off of here already???

A sniper in my tree??? Really?? 

Bug I think your main concern should be stocking up on the meds you so desperately need, you barely maintain a realistic view of life now, imagine if/when shtf. I'm sure you've got some neighbors who intend to come to your basement and wipe your crazy ass out while you play video games and munch Cheetos....

Goodness, I've tried to leave you alone for a few months but your pathetic need for attention has gotten me today.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## M118LR

Coastie dad said:


> Ooohhh.....there's the tough talk again....sound like those teen boys in Juvie.
> 
> You know, I'm kind of enjoying this. You have to beat your own chest and play Billy badass on the keyboard.... like you having teeth on a necklace makes me want to provide my bona fide to you?
> Ha ha ha ha! You try to stir stuff up so someone will talk to you?
> You pathetic little man. Do you play at sniper as a way to make yourself feel superior to all those jocks in high school who made your life miserable?
> Is this how you prove to yourself you have some value?
> Ha ha ha ha ha ha.....
> Yes, Im understanding more now....
> 
> All the best to you, sniper bug. All the best.


The gentleman beating his chest isn't me. I'll give you all the leeway to expound upon every deed you have ever done. All Hands stand at attention while the Admiral reads of your deeds of accomplishment Coastie dad! So how boring a life do you want to expose to everyone on this forum? When you aspire to the accolades worthy of a pest (bug) please contact me.

But as I have only posed the question of what have you done? Not anything about what I have already done. What is your inferiority?


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## M118LR

ffparamedic said:


> Does anyone remember when I joined this forum and started calling this dumbass out on his bullshit??
> 
> Why hasn't someone kicked him Off of here already???
> 
> A sniper in my tree??? Really??
> 
> Bug I think your main concern should be stocking up on the meds you so desperately need, you barely maintain a realistic view of life now, imagine if/when shtf. I'm sure you've got some neighbors who intend to come to your basement and wipe your crazy ass out while you play video games and munch Cheetos....
> 
> Goodness, I've tried to leave you alone for a few months but your pathetic need for attention has gotten me today.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Thanks for kindness ffparamedic.


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## Auntie

:vs_mad: ENOUGH! :vs_mad: @M118LR

If you want to teach someone about something then do that. Quit being a condescending know it all blowhard. This is a prepper forum not your personal bashing, chest banging look at me playground. I am only going to ask one time for you to stop treating the people on here like they are blithering idiots.

I will help you out, the Boy Scouts use the E.D.G.E. method, Explain, Demonstrate, Guide and Enable. You are not explaining, you are demonstrating that you are a know it all, you aren't guiding anyone unless you count guiding them to the ignore button, you don't want to enable anyone you want to demean and trash anything that anyone says about your sniper theory.

My 13 and 15 year old nephew don't treat people the way that you are. You are supposed to be a trained grown up. ACT LIKE IT!


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## Coastie dad

Four isreal bandages....
Three ferro rods...
Two mini Sawyer's...


And a sniper in a bare tree.....

Thank you folks, thank you. Remember to tip your waitress....
And come back for our next matinee of "How to Muck a Stall While Maintaining 360* perimeter Security" starring the Bug.


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## Coastie dad

Whoops! Sorry Auntie...you posted before I did or I wouldn't have.


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## Ragnarök

:vs_wave:


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## New guy 101

M118LR said:


> I can't explain how grateful I am that you answered a rhetorical question New guy 101. Perhaps you should take a second to look this up. All I asked is what have you done to alleviate a sniper conflict. So Sorry that I can't get through to the hardest of headed folks. Conceptual thinking is so far out of the box.


Well, that's good M118 since we are all here for you... Honestly I didn't see it as rhetorical...because I just failed to grasp that there is only one obvious way to prepare for a Sniper in a tree...I told you what I did to alleviate a Sniper threat.... I retain my mobility...If some sniper is climbing a tree...that gives me 10 to 15 minutes. I can walk a mile in 15 minutes...then he's gotta come down...move a mile closer...climb another tree....giving me at least 20 minutes...and so on and so on...I'm just walking...he's sneaking and peeping and climbing trees like a koala bear...so I'm betting his arms get shakey before my legs do.

Plus..the top of that tress is swaying and such so even if I'm not walking...I'm swaying left and right just for the "damn" factor... Just as he gets ready to feel that recoil and watch the pink mist...Imma step behind a tree and then move out again under cover.....

My guess is he'll fall out of the top of the tree at some point and break his leg, neck, or scope...Now he's a short range threat, lacking mobility...and he's in my domain... 'm gonna start howling at him letting him know I'm coming... runing from one side to another to another... making him think he's surrounded...as I close in for the final confrontation I expect to hear his rifle discharge from being suck started by a scared sad sniper.

Now don't get me wrong...I love snipers....just not snipers who climb into trees to shoot me...they are cowards... A real sniper faces off in places where he is numerically disadvantaged and strategically hampered and through tactical knowledge, skill, and courage, turns that into a win. Real snipers don't hunt me, Bad guy snipers hunt me...so I'm just gonna go with the"mess with them until they fall out of the tree" technique.

I guess that makes me the Flash for this round of tete-a- tete...who are you....Batman or aqua man?


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## Auntie

Coastie dad said:


> Whoops! Sorry Auntie...you posted before I did or I wouldn't have.


No worries, I have enjoyed your ditties.


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## M118LR

Auntie said:


> :vs_mad: ENOUGH! :vs_mad: @M118LR
> 
> If you want to teach someone about something then do that. Quit being a condescending know it all blowhard. This is a prepper forum not your personal bashing, chest banging look at me playground. I am only going to ask one time for you to stop treating the people on here like they are blithering idiots.
> 
> I will help you out, the Boy Scouts use the E.D.G.E. method, Explain, Demonstrate, Guide and Enable. You are not explaining, you are demonstrating that you are a know it all, you aren't guiding anyone unless you count guiding them to the ignore button, you don't want to enable anyone you want to demean and trash anything that anyone says about your sniper theory.
> 
> My 13 and 15 year old nephew don't treat people the way that you are. You are supposed to be a trained grown up. ACT LIKE IT!


Auntie, how would you like me to explain that your 13 and 15 year old are nothing more than causalities because of your lack conceptional thinking. Did you really want me to tell them they don't have a chance of existence due to you nearsightedness. What are you going to explain to them was the reason they sacrificed thier lives do to your lack of action based on something that you couldn't conceive? I don;t talk harshly to gentlefolk as a rule. But if you can't learn from the experience of others, you and your's are doomed to failure. The things I draw into concept, I have performed for God and Country. All I ask is that you consider the things that have been paid for in blood. Not what I shall do, just what you can do. If that is to much to comprehend, I'll blow the Boatswains Whistle.


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## Denton

I'm struggling to see the benefit to this thread.


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## Auntie

M118LR said:


> Auntie, how would you like me to explain that your 13 and 15 year old are nothing more than causalities because of your lack conceptional thinking. Did you really want me to tell them they don't have a chance of existence due to you nearsightedness. What are you going to explain to them was the reason they sacrificed thier lives do to your lack of action based on something that you couldn't conceive? I don;t talk harshly to gentlefolk as a rule. But if you can't learn from the experience of others, you and your's are doomed to failure. The things I draw into concept, I have performed for God and Country. All I ask is that you consider the things that have been paid for in blood. Not what I shall do, just what you can do. If that is to much to comprehend, I'll blow the Boatswains Whistle.


You stopped being amusing or educational a long time ago. I learn from others, that are willing to teach and not from condescending ... that are full of themselves. You know nothing about my family or me. /done


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## New guy 101

Denton said:


> I'm struggling to see the benefit to this thread.


each word out of a person is a brick in his persona here.... from what they contain and how they are delivered one gains a mental picture of the fortress of ones soul.

I'm just waiting to see if there's going to be a brass handle on the door of M118's building..._ already know what books I'm gonna find inside for wiping_. Mostly poems and Plays....at least a gun review magazine and a self help book or three. But it's a multi- storied one with private privy on the grand master floor a top the lower ones for guests. so the advice on snipers in trees is useful there as well..."look up" for hazards coming your way.

its still a useful thread....


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## M118LR

Denton said:


> I'm struggling to see the benefit to this thread.


Perhaps it is better that none struggle with how this thread could benefit them Denton. The misguided thought that folks could or would prepare when faced with the actuality of meeting the folks that America Trains to protect the Homeland. It is readily apparent that the sheep are not able to talk to the wolves. Lock this up at the OP's request. I no longer care to even conceptualize with those that want to deny the factual. Speak of me as you will, but dare not hear the truth from the harbinger. Not my loss. End this Denton, I don't care to share anything further. Y'all know and have experienced it all.


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## Coastie dad

And the actor asks the curtain be brought down on the act.

May as well give him this, since he can't have what he truly desires.


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## New guy 101

BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!!


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## SGG

Prepared One said:


> Prioritize.


^^^

Literally, make a list


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## SGG

Denton said:


> No; I expected you to say something worthwhile instead of wasting time and many pages. This might blow your mind, but some of us don't have a lot of time to waste.
> For the amount of stupid crap, the knowledge could have been gleaned elsewhere by those who need it.


Or, already was.....waiting on this thread to impart direction.

I love this thread. Probably will never, ever, be an issue here. But I love how it made me think about something I hadn't before, myself.


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## SGG

M118LR said:


> Prior to this thread oh great and wonderful oz, had you bothered to take the time to confront what a single sniper could do to the years worth of preparing that you have labored upon? Yep, you prepared for that all along, that's why you expected me to give you the placebo that let you sleep well at night. There wasn't any waste of your time unless you are foolish enough not to act on the information that I have taken the time and abuse to share with Y'all. Now if you have decided to take a few days and trot out to the Red Cloud Range and show me how you intend to ward off a Sniper or two? Then I'll take notice of your unprepossessing criticism. Can you quote the elevation required on your best scope/rifle combo to reach 1500 Meters? Is your combo able to dial in that min spec range. These are rhetorical questions Denton. I already know the answers, but you can prove me wrong at the 1500 meter line at least once every month.


So hostile.

That is not how you impart knowledge


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## Denton

I think that is a good idea - closing the thread. A dozen pages later and one post with anything useful. Never one mention about trees. A lot of "Look at how great I am!" crap that you think somehow benefits others. 

If you were in the military, I think hanging out at the local VFW would be your thing. Of course, you might have to listen to others.


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