# The armed Samaritan.



## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

I often look at people throughout my day and can't help but constantly shake my head over our society. So many people unconcerned with others, self absorbed in there own lives, rude and cut throat that I just don't know whether I would actually want to get involved in any given situation to help them if I happened to be their with one being be voilent to another, and the other looking to be in harms way. Whether it was a parking lot argument that lead to gun fire or a maniac going off in a restaurant. I carry a gun everyday and I just don't know whether I want to be involved in a given situation or simply walk away. My carrying a firearm is primarily for my protection, my partners, family and friends. I was just wondering how some of you felt about it, who are also armed whether it's carrying or even if something came about around your neighborhood. And when the shtf and this country crumbles, which I see as an eventuality the way things are going and voilent acts will be much more common. I personally just don't know how much of an armed samaritan I am, whether their worth it and I want to get involved.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I carry everywhere I go. At this point I am sworn to protect every one of them. If some goofball starts shooting, I'm making sure my family is safe then pulling out the Kimber and going to work. Even when I retire in a couple of years I could never look at myself in a mirror remembering that I watched someone die at the hands of a criminal knowing I could have prevented it. Even at the cost of my own life. What greater way to end a life of serving others?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You see things as they are.
When it hits the fan how it will be


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Whether you serve in the military, Law Enforcement or both, you take an oath. You make a lifelong commitment to take up a weapon and protect and defend your country, your buddies and the innocent. I've had my low points where I wondered if it's all worth it. I just keep running towards the gunfire though.It's a mental problem we have. I don't want to die but I'm hardwired this way. From time to time I read this.

On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

I stand with csi-tech on this one. Evil only triumphs when good men do nothing.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

Yep, I'm in the same camp as CSI & Rigged. I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't get involved. I can't stand to see people preyed upon regardless of whether or not I think they deserve to live and I have no tolerance for the animals that prey upon the weak (or the weak minded for that matter).

-Infidel


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> Whether you serve in the military, Law Enforcement or both, you take an oath. You make a lifelong commitment to take up a weapon and protect and defend your country, your buddies and the innocent. I've had my low points where I wondered if it's all worth it. I just keep running towards the gunfire though.It's a mental problem we have. I don't want to die but I'm hardwired this way. From time to time I read this.
> 
> On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs


That was an excellent read. Thank you. I saved it to favorites though I don't feel a 100% about who is exactly innocent anymore. I know I'm a sheepdog, but I question exactly whether some are actually part of my flock.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Shortly after I left the military and entered Law Enforcement I watched a 7 year old boy slip away right in front of me. It tore me up. I resolved to leave the profession and never look back. On my way home the wife needed me to stop at the grocery store and pick something up, I don't recall what exactly but when I came out there was a little red post it note on the windshield of my patrol car. I figured somebody was pissed at me for whatever reason or just wanted to vent about cops in general. I snatched the note and read it. This is what it said:

I know you don't know me, but my name is Mary. I just wanted to let you know how important you are to me. I can't imagine what it must be like to put on a vest every night and not know whether or not you will make it home. Thank you.

I changed my mind and went to work that night.

That was 23 years ago and I tell that little story to every Officer I train.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I don't think anyone knows for sure what they would do in a situation like you described, unless you have been in it before. I have not, but I would like to think I would do something to help save a life if I could.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Fuzzee said:


> I often look at people throughout my day and can't help but constantly shake my head over our society. So many people unconcerned with others, self absorbed in there own lives, rude and cut throat that I just don't know whether I would actually want to get involved in any given situation to help them if I happened to be their with one being be voilent to another, and the other looking to be in harms way. Whether it was a parking lot argument that lead to gun fire or a maniac going off in a restaurant. I carry a gun everyday and I just don't know whether I want to be involved in a given situation or simply walk away. My carrying a firearm is primarily for my protection, my partners, family and friends. I was just wondering how some of you felt about it, who are also armed whether it's carrying or even if something came about around your neighborhood. And when the shtf and this country crumbles, which I see as an eventuality the way things are going and voilent acts will be much more common. I personally just don't know how much of an armed samaritan I am, whether their worth it and I want to get involved.


The biggest danger to we who are not sworn officers, . . . you may happen upon a situation where you really want to do something, . . . but you cannot because you do not know who is the good guy, and who is the bad guy.

IE: the 50 something white haired old guy and the 20 something young dude are going at each other. You hear names and "rapist" come out of their mouths, . . . did the young guy rape the old guy's daughter, . . . or is the old guy a pervert who raped the young guys 3 year old?

We also don't have the taser, . . . backup enroute, . . . or a K9 to help.

Bottom line? Be careful if you intervene in someone else's problem. You might pick the wrong side.

To the best of my ability, . . . I would go down defending anyone who needed defending, . . . I don't have the slightest problem with that, . . . I just don't want to forfeit my life for the wrong reason, . . . or worse, . . . rot in a jail cell because I chose the wrong side to help.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I have the luxury of being covered by massive municipal and state insurance policies as well. If I act under the color of law, provided I am following policy, I will be covered. Civilians who carry usually have to provide their own liability bonds. If you do take a life regardless of right or wrong there will be legal action against you. Under respodeat superior an officer will be named in the suit but they are going after the municipality. The deepest pockets we have as citizens are our own. Something to consider.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Common sense is important. Last week I saw two individuals pursuing a young boy outside of Save Mart. I shouted at them giving him an opportunity to get inside the store. Other patrons and myself confronted them verbally and told them we were calling Carson SO. The kid was safe they were deterred and the fact I was armed never became known let alone a factor.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I would never get more involved in a shouting match than to say something thought provoking - like "is it worth going to jail for?" or something similar. I have done that in the past and it usually works but other times I had to sit and wait for the cops to get there. Never, NEVER, lay a hand on someone who is "having a discussion" with another because you never have all the facts. As soon as you touch someone you have the possibility of going to jail for assault. 

If gun play is involved - I wait - check out who is shooting and why. You don't want to shoot somebody who is trying to stop a felony in progress or an off-duty officer. You have to know what is going on before you pull a gun. Besides you need the time to find the best cover and get the best shot - no one in the background, no one moving toward your line of sight and all the rest that makes your shot count without causing more harm.

The responsibility comes with the right so keep in mind that if you ever use your gun you will be in court over it, civil or criminal so take your time to make the right decission for you in that situation. Killing someone is a hard thing to do and harder still to live with afterwards. Killing the wrong person is ever worse.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I have the luxury of being covered by massive municipal and state insurance policies as well. If I act under the color of law, provided I am following policy, I will be covered. Civilians who carry usually have to provide their own liability bonds. If you do take a life regardless of right or wrong there will be legal action against you. Under respodeat superior an officer will be named in the suit but they are going after the municipality. The deepest pockets we have as citizens are our own. Something to consider.


I have taken several training courses put on by local law enforcement. The instuctors during the self defense, shoot/don't shoot portions all said the same thing. If you EVER have to shoot someone, even if it is righteous legally, life as you have known it is gone forever. And you will most likely be financially ruined, too. Florida's "stand your gound" law supposedly shields one from lawsuits, but when lawyers are involved things can get perverted quickly. And I go into Georgia almost every day, too.
We live in a small town/rural area where violent crime is almost unheard of. But I still carry everywhere, except at work. Although situations can be very fluid, I seriously doubt if I would fire on anybody that was not actively engaged in gunning people down.
Or attacking me or my wife personally.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Everyone should carry liability insurance but especially those who carry outside the home. Your home-owners liability might cover you but that would be rare.
You can get insurance through the NRA and other second amendment orgs so check them out.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

After I got my CCP, I thought about something like this:
It's late and you are on your way home, you decide to stop at the local 7-11 for a coke. While you are in the back, a guy walks in with a gun and puts it in the face of a 19 year old female clerk. What do you do?
One, you do nothing, the guy gets the money and leaves, no one harmed.
Two, you do nothing, the guy gets the money then shoots the woman in the face before leaving.
Three, you try to do something, which causes the guy who wasn't going to hurt anyone to shoot the woman.
Four, you shoot the guy before he maybe shoots the woman.
Anyone have the correct answer? I don't.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Moonshinedave, a very serious and thought provoking question.
My answer, I dont know, I hope and think I would cover and draw, access and hope to not have to shoot him.
My experience- being held up at restaurant after work one night, an employee went outside to get her cigarettes, and two masked people entered the door after her. One of them almost crashed into me as they came jumping in the door, with a pistol to the head of cigarette girl. For a split second, my brain said it was just a joke, until the one with the rifle pointed it at my chest and worked the bolt. Demanding to be taken to the safe...They really scared the manager, she was crying and freaking out, I honestly almost grabbed the rifle, becouse my mind was telling me "If I was going in to trouble, my rifle would be locked and loaded", but I knew the pistol pointed at cigarette girl looked real. They had us lay prone on the floor, and I stupidly was more worried about the tip money I had in my wallet than I was them shooting us..
Turns out, it was cigarrette girls roommates, they had planned it for when the safe was open. Her, her boyfriend, two room mates and a driver. 5 people, and a Saturday or Friday night, they only got like 2300. THe police eventually arrested everyone. We had to go to court, and I sat in the hallway across from them. Dont know the outcome, I had moved away shortly after this happened..
Also, watched four rich white young men that I knew get the shit beat out of them by a young black male that they had goaded into fighting. Didn't take much goading, they called him some choice names, and he took his shirt off and proceeded to beat the piss out of all four of them. I was leaning on a newspaper machine watching, and one of them said "why didn't you help us?" I told him they didn't need any help getting their buts whooped, that he had done a fine job..anyone pulling up to the scene might have assumed that the "young black guy was beating up a white guy for no reason."


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## longrider (Mar 25, 2013)

You guys all continue to inspire me, day after day. I'm so lucky I found this site. I admire you greatly.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Fuzzee said:


> ...I carry a gun everyday and I just don't know whether I want to be involved in a given situation or simply walk away..


A man's gotta do..
For example Peter carried a sword and sliced off the high priest flunkies ear with it when they came to arrest Jesus, so if a saint carried a weapon, so can we.

PS- Also you might need it to save somebody's life, for example if you see a psycho attacking people you can blow his head clean off.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Unfortunately, in real life, people are not wearing labels that tell whether they are the good guys or the bad guys. Sometimes it is readily apparent but not so all the time. It would be nice if people all wore hats like in the 1950s movies - you always new who the good guys were because they wore white hats and the bad guys always wore black hats. An undercover cop making an arrest in a latenight convenience store might look at first glace to be robbing the place and that thug that just through a woman to the ground might be a married couple playfully engaging in a scene. You have to act juditiously unless you want to become the "bad guy".


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## Tundra Dweller (May 18, 2013)

I have read this thread a few times.. I find myself nodding lots.. All i can add is, I can confirm i would use force, Deadly force if needed If my family was in harms way. I know my family and know them to not provoke others. With that said I am unsure of any other situations. case by case situation for me.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

The more I think about the outlook that some of our society are sheep, some are wolves feeding on the sheep and some of us are sheepdogs, vigilantly protecting the sheep no matter the case, it just isn't that simple. This is a complex world with complex aspects of human behavior and choices, right or wrong or somewhere in between. I don't really relate to the sheepdog with blinders on in relationship to the sheep. As I don't wholly care for the sheep. Their caught up with self importance, overly concerned about the grass to eat and how much they get, and have little respect for the sheepdogs that keeps them from harm. Some do, but all don't really deserve that protection and sacrifice from the sheepdogs. I am the lion. I'll fiercely protect my pride. I'll most certainly kill any wolves who stray too close or threaten my pride. I'm not actively going to feed on the sheep, but if they decide to grave in my hunting grounds greedily, they will be eaten. I respect the sheepdog, he is a diligent warrior though I may not understand why he cares for the sheep so much. If he threatens my pride with his overt aggression to protect the sheep though.............


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I carry, primarily for self defense and defense of my family. Would I employee my sidearm for reasons other than those two? Possibly, but the situations must be pretty clear, and the loss of life must be a certainty. There have been too many incidents where the good guy lost everything due to courts-gone-stupid.

I haven't carried a service weapon in years, and don't plan on doing it again. I carry for personal reasons, just like everyone else can. I highly recommend it to everyone.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Oh, and I also recommend staying out of stupid situations that can lead to periods of vulnerability, but I find people are drawn to them, anyway.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

I was reading the autobiog of a British WW2 army officer who said he hated wearing his service revolver through the years of the war because it changed his mindset and outlook on life for the worse even though he never had to use it.
He didn't explain but I think he meant that if you're carrying a gun it can affect your personality in a negative way.
i'm just guessing, but an armed person might subconsciously adopt a tough confident swaggering manner and body language that are like red rags to a bull and attract trouble to him if you see what i mean.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> I was reading the autobiog of a British WW2 army officer who said he hated wearing his service revolver through the years of the war because it changed his mindset and outlook on life for the worse even though he never had to use it.
> He didn't explain but I think he meant that if you're carrying a gun it can affect your personality in a negative way.
> i'm just guessing, but an armed person might subconsciously adopt a tough confident swaggering manner and body language that are like red rags to a bull and attract trouble to him if you see what i mean.


And of course the other side of that shilling, . . . a man carrying a weapon with which he is familiar, competent, and willing to use, . . . may exude a demeanor that the local thug may just decide to go find someone else less confident and more vulnerable.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> And of course the other side of that shilling, . . . a man carrying a weapon with which he is familiar, competent, and willing to use, . . . may exude a demeanor that the local thug may just decide to go find someone else less confident and more vulnerable.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


I think it's more this than otherwise. Thugs and punks look for weak, easy targets. An armed man/woman and the confidence to handle situations projects what the thugs and punks cower from. Most are cowards and bullies at heart and don't want trouble. If you come across those willing to mess with you, at least you're better equipped to handle it. Far better to have and not need than need and not have in my experience.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

It is always a personal decision and one that you will have to make in a split second. I have pulled my weapon off duty twice when people I didn't know approached in dark, vacated areas. I entered a combat stance and brought my weapon into low ready (actually sul). I issued a clear, unambiguous "POLICE,THAT'S CLOSE ENOUGH!" order. Both times the person turned and ran. I have no idea what their plans were. Maybe just panhandling, who knows?

I think it's important to let the suspect's actions dictate your moves. Think in terms of a continuum. When you can clearly articulate that that deadly force is or is about to be used against you, your family or an innocent third party it is time to act. I like to tell recruits that sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor. There are times when you may have to retreat from a situation and sadly, sometimes, it's just a bad day to be the hostage or victim. You have to know your own abilities. I am confident that at 25 yards I can put a handgun round in a suspect's head. Beyond that, I can only guarantee a center mass shot up to 50, beyond 50 yards it was just a bad day to be a hostage. If I have a carbine, bad day to be a suspect. 

Another curse about carrying a weapon and resolving to protect yourself, your family or innocent sheep is that you size everyone up and observe everything. You always sit with your back to a wall facing the entrance at a restaurant, You never enjoy a movie without Moscow or Denver going through your head, you never go to your kids school without thinking about Beslan, Sandy Hook or Columbine and you never go to sleep without thinking about what is on the other side of those walls. And when you do sleep, you have mostly nightmares about your gun shooting marshmallows instead of bullets (This one really sucks!).

It's a learned behavior and not for everyone. You can attach all of the cool eagle, sheepdog, hawk, lion metaphors in the world to it but the truth is I have worked hard for what I own, I love my life and my family, I care about what happens to people I don't know and there is nothing I hate more than someone who would prey upon them. 

Not to mention I'm a lousy gardener, plumber or carpenter. This is all I have ever been good at. I like what Hemingway said:

“There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.”


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Fuzzee got me to thinking. I guess I am a cross between a sheepdog and a Lion. I spent time on the streets in my youth and understand the mentality spoken of earlier. Criminals do look for easy prey. They don't see that here even though now I am just old and fat. It's the look you have and the way you carry yourself. But to add a little help to that, Texas just passed a law where you can now show your weapon to diffuse a confrontation.

That being said, I doubt if I would get involved in a situation without knowing what was going on. Too many ways for it to end badly for me. I carry except when I work. The reason I carry is to get me and mine, maybe others, out of a bad situation. I don't carry to fight a battle. I'm just too damn old to be a commando and my street fighting days are over. A battle is better fought with long guns, not handguns.


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## Tundra Dweller (May 18, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> Another curse about carrying a weapon and resolving to protect yourself, your family or innocent sheep is that you size everyone up and observe everything. You always sit with your back to a wall facing the entrance at a restaurant, You never enjoy a movie without Moscow or Denver going through your head, you never go to your kids school without thinking about Beslan, Sandy Hook or Columbine and you never go to sleep without thinking about what is on the other side of those walls. And when you do sleep, you have mostly nightmares about your gun shooting marshmallows instead of bullets (This one really sucks!).


I grew up in Laredo Texas, From a young age my father taught me to sit away from doors, back to a wall when possible, always facing doors. Car doors locked when driving, father was always packing. I have never lost those traits taught to me. My buddies all think i'm nuts.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I hate the term, sheep dog. People are not sheep, and they should not need dogs to steer the flock through the fields in daylight of guard them at night. People are sentient creatures. Things happen, and happen quickly. As the little saying goes cops are minutes away when seconds count. All sentimental wordage aside, cops and detectives do paperwork attempt to apprehend bad guys after the fact.

Carry. Carry and stay out of stupid situations and stupid places. Tell others. Maybe there'll be less bad guys if there are more carriers, and cops can kick back a little.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm not a fan of the macho aphorisms either. I think it's best not to wear it on your sleeve, be humble and keep your mouth shut. I see guys wearing Daniel Defense shirts, Black water crap, Glock hats and any number of gun related plumage. I think in doing that you just look like a tool. You would also be the first guy I'd puff if I went nuts. 

I like the idea of somebody just turning around and staring down the muzzle of a .45 and a blinding 100 lumen Surefire, then following the light to the great beyond.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

The sheep comparison stands however. If you watch this video of Samual Williams getting it done down in Florida just watch the people around him. Watch how when the shooting starts they are walking zombies. They neither engage nor seek cover. They just wander around covering their ears. (I guess they're more concerned about their hearing than their pulse.) It's not pretty and it's insulting but it's true. Yes they are sentient creatures, without a survival instinct.

Samuel Williams Shoots At Internet Cafe Robbery Suspects Duwayne Henderson, Davis Dawkins (VIDEO)


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Sheep is really a pretty fair comparison to me. If you really watch how people react to noises, bugs, cars coming their way as they walk across the street, etc. there really are a lot of oblivious, sheep like people out there. I have no doubt that when the world as we know it crumbles, whether from war, famine, societal collapse or mother nature, a huge amount of the population is simply going to die from lack of spine and sense. Their cuddled by our modern society and society babying them, and why the population is so large now compared to past times when the world was a much tougher place to live in.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

I ain't a sheep or a sheep dog or a wolf. I think of myself more as a bob cat.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I am just a man. When I started to carry concealed I was very young (21 was as young as you could own a handgun) but I was wise enough to understand that wearing the gun meant I had to stay out of situations and places that I was likely to have to use it. In 41 years I have never had to fire a shot and I have only had to draw it once.

I have and still do train to use it but it has never made me feel any different other than being more aware of where I go and what is happening in my surroundings. I too have learned to sit facing the doors with my back against the wall where I can see everything that is going on. Being aware of any potential threat is the first thing on my mind. Making sure that nobody knows I am carrying is the next. I like the element of surprise on my side and I like having reached 62 without ever having to use my gun. It means that I am staying out of the places I should.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

In all fairness, there was one woman holding her ears, and I doubt she had a clue who was firing or if she were about to take her last step. Same goes for the larger woman who wanders out from the right side of the room.

The one who had me scratching my head the first time I saw this was the slim dummy in the white clothing, who followed grandpa and then bolted back. I wonder if he suddenly realized what he was viewing was not a television program.

No, people are unpredictable and that sort of unpredictable behavior makes the zone even more dangerous - for the good guy who might hit an innocent. I'm still not going to call them sheep, however, and I am not their guard dog, and neither are the police. Feel free to do so, if you like. I understand what you are saying. I simply don't prefer the romantic notion of being society's watch dog.

Those hats, shirts and bumper stickers are what a friend at work calls, "Shoot me first!" paraphernalia. Not too smart, and doesn't prove any toughness. Grandpa in that video proves you don't have to wear a Ruger T-Shirt and tactical pants to scatter the dirt bags. It would have been better if some other good citizens had been prepared, too. I mean, come on people! It's just a few extra ounces to carry a .38 revolver! Sheesh! :|


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