# It is sad, I don't feel I can say what I want to



## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I have posted quite a bit recently from "short timers" that have been posting on very sensitive subjects....

And I am ashamed that here in the land of the free and the home of the brave I look at them with reservations.

Here are the posts I am thinking of...

"I just joined a militia"

"What do you think of Obama"

"I own a suppressor, how about you"

"How many dollars do you have"

"Where will you run when it hits the fan"

I can think of a thousand more, but my point is...

I don't feel comfortable replying and sharing with people that are "new" say less than 50 posts to the real questions that need to be asked.

I would consider it realistic opsec to ignore posts from people that are new.

Just me, I am probably overreacting, there couldn't be enough money in the federal guvment to waste its resources on tracking a website in the top 100.

Just saying.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

in general think about what I post. sometimes I have something to say, but am cautious about wording or I don't post nothing. I don't mind doing pictures of me or my boys. there's more to what I don't say than what I do say  I know we are all kinda like that.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Trouble makers come from the civilian world too, not just government Alphabet Agencies.
When this forum was small, whackos were very easy to spot and quickly run off.
Now we have more than 5,000 members.
Some of these posters could be liberals trying to bait us, some could be wannabe G-Men, some may be real G-Men, some could be teenagers with poor interpersonal skills, some could be the kind of teenagers that shoot up schools.

I'm a law abiding citizen who would never: join a militia, build a suppressor in my workshop, and I darn sure don't have extra cash laying around.
I'm pretty laid back about these newbies, unless they are fake veterans, THEN my blood gets going.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

im more worried about wierdos citizens than the gobmint.  I don't really do anything wrong but sit on the dang internet too much when im home on the weekends.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Trouble makers come from the civilian world too, not just government Alphabet Agencies.
> When this forum was small, whackos were very easy to spot and quickly run off.
> Now we have more than 5,000 members.
> Some of these posters could be liberals trying to bait us, some could be wannabe G-Men, some may be real G-Men, some could be teenagers with poor interpersonal skills, some could be the kind of teenagers that shoot up schools.
> ...


I totally agree with you, my last traffic ticket was when I was 17 years old... which is about 35 years ago. That is the total composition of my criminal history (running a stop sign)

Other than that I am a model citizen, but I fear my government, it is a sick feeling.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Montana Rancher said:


> I can think of a thousand more, but my point is...
> 
> I don't feel comfortable replying and sharing with people that are "new" say less than 50 posts to the real questions that need to be asked.
> 
> ...


There is a lot to be said for opsec. New or not, there are some posts I refuse to comment. Govt plants or not, I don't care. It's no one's business but mine what I do or don't do. Some things I don't mind sharing but other things........... not so much.

MR, you are not alone on this one.


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## Purkeypilot (Dec 21, 2012)

Ya...I've seen some pretty ridiculous threads titles/subjects and comments over the several months. This Forum is one that I frequent pretty often, but you'll notice my post count is really low, haha!


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## Mic (Jul 19, 2012)

I don't really get the concern. Whether a newb asks or a member with > 1K posts who has been around for 2 years, the info is still visible to the world. The newbs still see it. People who are not registered on here see it.
If you are worried about answering a question a newb asks, you probably shouldn't answer no matter who posts.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Montana Rancher said:


> ................ but I fear my government, it is a sick feeling.


Same here. I know that you, as former military, have been lied to by our government. But that is normal for them. Politicians and high ranking officers lie. It's just business, nothing personal.
But I have never seen such an US vs THEM situation ever before Jan 2009. I honestly don't know what else will happen before the 2016 election.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Mic said:


> I don't really get the concern. Whether a newb asks or a member with > 1K posts who has been around for 2 years, the info is still visible to the world. The newbs still see it. People who are not registered on here see it.
> If you are worried about answering a question a newb asks, you probably shouldn't answer no matter who posts.


That is not the point.
The point is there are a lot of far out posts, not only on this forum, but others like it that I frequent. i do not think it is random. And i'm not one of the tin foil hat guys, either.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Trouble makers come from the civilian world too, not just government Alphabet Agencies.
> When this forum was small, whackos were very easy to spot and quickly run off.
> Now we have more than 5,000 members.
> Some of these posters could be liberals trying to bait us, some could be wannabe G-Men, some may be real G-Men, some could be teenagers with poor interpersonal skills, some could be the kind of teenagers that shoot up schools.
> ...


We learned at a young age "*Don't do the crime if ya can't do the time*" besides being mrs somebody is not real high on my to do list. I also have a number of other reasons not to break the law. I work for the state govt, I do volunteer work for state agencies with federal affiliations but most important, I married a wonderful person that I would just as soon not leave for any length of time. Disappointing her would be the worst blow.

Add to that RPD, we're just getting too damn old for a lot of this shit anyhow. :lol:


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Same here. I know that you, as former military, have been lied to by our government. But that is normal for them. Politicians and high ranking officers lie. It's just business, nothing personal.
> But I have never seen such an US vs THEM situation ever before Jan 2009. I honestly don't know what else will happen before the 2016 election.


me too. I am exceedingly concerned. when I see the games played with my sons safety and well being. I have never imagined the vets would be treated the way they are today . I never would have imagined the division of the citizens. and the separation we have experienced from the government against us.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I know what ya mean. Here is the way I look at it. I have said it before. I used to be and still am a little into bodybuilding. I used to order 'hormones" online. I also used ot be a part of several of the first bodybuilding message boards on the net. I will say this. DO NOT be afraid of the newbies only. You will learn that even veteran members,mods and even admins/board owners can be feds or someone else out to "get you".. I have seen it before. There were a few boards back int he late 90's and around 9/11 that were actually owned by the DEA. They would allow you to order 'hormones" and collect a years worth of info or more then ona an order it would be a controlled delivery where they would bring a package,you would sign for it and then they would come kick your door in and take you to jail. I have seen it done at least a dozen times.. The closest I came was I got a few siezure letters from customs saying they siezed a package and I could take it to court to contest it. no thanks!! I'll take the loss..

My point it. Anyone of us on here could be with an alphabet group and we would never know.. I don't do illegal shit anymore so I'm not worried... But just because someone has 10000 posts, doesn't mean they aren't a fed..


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

The problem as I see it now is that it doesn't even matter if you did/do something "illegal" or not, you are guilty until proven innocent in the eyes of the government anymore and with the way lawyers/politicians write the laws it's hard to not be proven guilty if that's what they want!


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I am not a Fed.

I did have a bit of a revelation last week though. Last week and this week I have a training contract with a very large software company in Palo Alto, CA. When I am traveling, I make a concerted effort to NOT socialize with anybody from my client. I often get asked to go out for beers with them and always have an excuse ready why I cannot. I do not even go to lunch with them. It is just bad business.

Last week, I was at the client site and they have an awesome company cafeteria - four star head chef, decent prices, very nice outdoor patio with tables etc. So I went ahead and ordered food there. While I was waiting for my order, a bunch of guys from the class I was teaching came by and sat down around me. There was no way of getting out of this one. So I just sat there quietly listening to them, not adding anything to their conversation with the excuse that I was trying to save my voice for the afternoon session. What I heard, and even more importantly who I heard it from, absolutely floored me. These are not political operatives nor are they community organizers; they are a bunch of computer geeks that are making mid six figure salaries.

They were talking about how any large group of people, there is going to be some percentage of them that are "just plain evil". One of them gave the example that in their company there are about 30,000 people on this particular campus, and he guessed that at least a couple thousand were "evil enough to own guns". This same guy went to so far as to say they should just round up all of the gun owners and give them the choice of turning over their guns or give them an unconditional sentence of life in prison!

I may have been a bit slow on the uptake, but last week I finally realized there is no common ground that we share with these people. These were not Democrat talking-heads meant to rile the base at an Obama rally. These are the rank-and-file Democrats in Silicon Valley. I use to think liberals (and progressive Republicans) were misguided but at least I thought there were a few issues we could coalesce around. There are not. They will not be satisfied until we are locked up.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Inor said:


> I am not a Fed.
> 
> I did have a bit of a revelation last week though. Last week and this week I have a training contract with a very large software company in Palo Alto, CA. When I am traveling, I make a concerted effort to NOT socialize with anybody from my client. I often get asked to go out for beers with them and always have an excuse ready why I cannot. I do not even go to lunch with them. It is just bad business.
> 
> ...


Welcome.  Good to see when someone arrives where I am.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

M.R. - I'm with you. I avoid those posts, especially from those with less than 100 posts and a couple of months worth of membership here. Some of it sure seems like a fishing expedition to me. It's not like we aren't already being watched, monitored and cached, but if they want it, let them come and work for it.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

ekim said:


> The problem as I see it now is that it doesn't even matter if you did/do something "illegal" or not, you are guilty until proven innocent in the eyes of the government anymore and with the way lawyers/politicians write the laws it's hard to not be proven guilty if that's what they want!


You have always been guilty until proven innocent. They just tell you it's the other way around. Which is why a mere accusation can cost you your career, your friends and family. The other problem with our legal system is a jury will convict based on two things; 1) Retribution for having been inconvenienced by your legal rights to a trial by jury and 2) Because they would not have charged you if you weren't guilty, so you must be.

I was watching COPS last night with my wife. One of the episodes took place in Spokane Valley (?); it was in Washington. I am a part time police officer in Washington and after watching this particular "episode within the episode", I looked at my wife and said; "I hope that guy and that girls attorney gets to see this footage...that whole case should be thrown out." She asked why and I told her I watched them violate the rights of the two douche bags all over the place, starting with a vehicle search without a warrant. Everything after that point was fruits of the poisonous tree; it was tainted at its inception. Washington has a very strict constitution and it HEAVILY protects the right to privacy. Even though it was the "Meth Mother Load" and I love watching dopers get lengthy sentences, those guys violated the shit out those peoples rights and should be arrested themselves.

Point is; They'll wind up with a lazy public defender and probably get found guilty.


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## Shimmitysham (Jan 20, 2014)

Montana Rancher said:


> "I just joined a militia"
> 
> "I own a suppressor, how about you"
> 
> .


I'd like to read these two threads....


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

BINGO----we have a winner.^^^^^


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I fear our govt too, but not personally but for society as a whole. Our govt would have no interest in me and I can be quite political and still I don't worry about them for me. Like I said I worry about our govt for society.

Our responses to new members have been mostly good, but I notice a deal of grief when a newbie is here to offer a book or product.

I do have issue with individuals on this and other forums. Their rhetoric is dangerous and I want zero to do with them. Many of the threads you've noted I just ignore with no interest.



Montana Rancher said:


> I totally agree with you, my last traffic ticket was when I was 17 years old... which is about 35 years ago. That is the total composition of my criminal history (running a stop sign)
> 
> Other than that I am a model citizen, but I fear my government, it is a sick feeling.


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## sarge1967 (Dec 2, 2013)

Inor said:


> I am not a Fed.
> 
> I did have a bit of a revelation last week though. Last week and this week I have a training contract with a very large software company in Palo Alto, CA. When I am traveling, I make a concerted effort to NOT socialize with anybody from my client. I often get asked to go out for beers with them and always have an excuse ready why I cannot. I do not even go to lunch with them. It is just bad business.
> 
> ...


No Inor, there is no talking with them, there is no common ground, their thinking is contrary to the founding of this country and to the Constitution. They ARE the domestic enemy I swore an oath to defend the Constitution from.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

i hope it's a display of a sense of humor, it was well played


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## Vagabond (Jan 14, 2014)

So once I post 50-100 times you'd be more comfortable giving me info on sensitive topics? There's no amount of posting that would encourage me to share certain things with anyone online. That's just good sense IMHO. You're not going to be condemned for not responding to anything that may be potentially incriminating


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

Don't really care what someone posts new or not, I look at the title if not something I want to read I move on. The ones that might have some interest I look at their post, read it or part of it, not interesting or gobbly- **** I move on no big deal. 
Not going to spend my life worried about who or what someone may be.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

I ended up with an internet stalker from the sportbike forum. it was horrible. it was a girl that was dating another member, when I dumped my bf, he told her online that he'd rather date me and has loved me for quite some time, really just handed her a full plate of humiliation. I felt really bad for her. he shouldn't have treated her that way. shouldn't have assumed that I would think that is great. (nothing so special about me that would make me think he wouldn't do that to me. I watch how people treat their currents and ex's). here's the kicker. I barely knew him (a local- we all know each other in person on this board) and wouldn't date him ifn he were the last feller on earth.
that chick locked onto me and it was just awful for yrs. the games with my employer, restraining orders, showing up at my kids schools and their msg forums, making fake my space pages I couldn't get them to close... it was just awful.
I realized from this the internet isn't someone's back yard bbq.

the feds- ha! I couldn't laugh more... its the person next to you or some one you see from time to time on line that is scary. you can watch people closely in their posts and sometimes beable to pick up that they are whack jobs. the feds don't bother me. I have nothing to hide.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

We have entered a time in our nation's history where the government has the ability to watch and follow the actions of anyone they want, it collects data and makes lists all the time, and we make it really easy for this to happen. 
Someone I know who worked in an open source intel-gathering operation told me they knew a drug king pin dude in Mexico was going to get whacked two days before it happened, and they learned that by following social media entries made by those who did it. I found that to be interesting, and a bit concerning at the same time.

We put a lot of information out there. I cringe every time I see one of those "Let's See Pics of Your Rifles" threads, just to offer an example. I know there are a lot of gun enthusiasts out there, and I know there are a lot of people with no ill intentions in their posts, but I also realize there are a lot of people, many of them not even agency members but just contract workers, collecting, categorizing and disseminating information that is gathered on social media. This, obviously, is a form of social media.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Vagabond said:


> So once I post 50-100 times you'd be more comfortable giving me info on sensitive topics? There's no amount of posting that would encourage me to share certain things with anyone online. That's just good sense IMHO. You're not going to be condemned for not responding to anything that may be potentially incriminating


No, its just that we get some people with 2 posts asking about homemade landmines. If you look at their 2 posts, one is "HI, Im a prepper from oshkosh bygosh", and the 2nd one says "anyone know how to make homemade landmines"..We figure if your gonna infiltrate us, you should at least know the history of turtles, bacon, and one leggeg IHOP waitressess. Besides if you ask me any incriminating eveidence, I will just lie to you.
And, I lost all my guns in Hurricane Sandy, They flew away.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

No guns here. Despise the little agents of evil.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

sorry to hear you lost your guns during the hurricane. that has to be tough. I drove off and left mine when I got a call from my kid in ****edupistan. I have been replacing them, but the new ones just aren't the same as my old new ones  I think the new ones scare me


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Wow, I guess I should craft this post with extreme care. 

Really guys? This thread sounds like some reality show caricature of paranoid preppers. Do any of you really believe that the government is singling you out of 300 million or so U.S. citizens for what you post on this site? Who is going to come after you? The military? The ones with the tat's and 5 or 6 (or more) deployments who the military is "downsizing"? Is it the LEO's who are a large population of this and other sites? Can you imagine someone telling these groups "we're going to conduct a raid to take their guns and maybe imprison them because they are dissenting against the government"? I will grant you, a small percentage might be persuaded to participate in such an action, but the larger percentage would immediately tell them to go screw themselves and the word would be out. How long would it take, even if the government jammed all communications, for individual Americans who understand their rights and are willing to defend them, to either individually or as groups to stop such an action?

When I took my oath, it did not relieve me of my responsibility to "defend my country from all enemies, foreign and domestic" it reinforced it. I'm pretty sure that today's soldiers and law enforcement officers take their oaths just as seriously. The oath does not make us robots to the organization to which we belong. It actually requires that we use use discretion and forethought when carrying out any orders that are given us. A lawful order is to be obeyed, an unlawful order does not have to be obeyed, but should be questioned, and if still found to be unlawful, should be disobeyed. I choose to believe that the majority of those Americans that serve our country are honorable and believe as I do, that their loyalty belongs to the Constitution and its ideals, and to no other entity or person.

I possess knowledge of the weapons of war and destruction, compliments of the training recieved from our government and your tax dollars. Along with however many military veterans have followed behind me. The government already knows who we are, what training we recieved, and where we currently reside if they can access the IRS files. The training and knowledge we received was not for general dissemination then and is not now. I don't lay awake at night wondering when the government is coming after me because I know how to wire a demo device. I'm not going to share that with anyone who asks me on this or any other site. 

I don't fear my government, mostly because the majority of my government is inept in the ways that count most. The ordinary citizen, who truly cares about their duty as a citizen of the United States of America, is a huge counterweight to any abuses our government might contemplate. The conscientous citizen who is a part of, or apart from the government still has the ultimate freedom of choice.

We do still have the freedom of speech. And we should not be afraid to use our freedom to say what we believe. If you cannot say what you believe, then you have surrendered that right without a fight. The second amendment also guarantees the right to bear arms. If you surrender the right to free speech here or elsewhere, will you also surrender the right to bear arms? I still believe that our government is "of the People, by the People, and for the People". Others might try to use our government for their personal gain or advancement, but at the end of the day, an informed and active citizentry will prevail.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Just Sayin' said:


> Wow, I guess I should craft this post with extreme care.
> 
> Really guys? This thread sounds like some reality show caricature of paranoid preppers. Do any of you really believe that the government is singling you out of 300 million or so U.S. citizens for what you post on this site?


So you think the whole NSA thing is bogus? Made up by people with nothing better to do?

They are doing nothing different than J Edgar Hoover did. The real difference is the information is no longer stored in filing cabinets, it's housed on computers in Utah. When they decide to look at you for whatever reason, the info will be right at their fingertips. Or do you think that is smoke and mirrors too?



Just Sayin' said:


> I possess knowledge of the weapons of war and destruction, compliments of the training recieved from our government and your tax dollars. Along with however many military veterans have followed behind me. The government already knows who we are, what training we recieved, and where we currently reside if they can access the IRS files. The training and knowledge we received was not for general dissemination then and is not now. I don't lay awake at night wondering when the government is coming after me because I know how to wire a demo device. I'm not going to share that with anyone who asks me on this or any other site.
> 
> I don't fear my government, mostly because the majority of my government is inept in the ways that count most. The ordinary citizen, who truly cares about their duty as a citizen of the United States of America, is a huge counterweight to any abuses our government might contemplate. The conscientous citizen who is a part of, or apart from the government still has the ultimate freedom of choice.


Tell me why, if they trust you so much, did they declare that US Veterans were on the list for terrorist suspects? Maybe you should read this.
Napolitano stands by controversial report - Washington Times



Just Sayin' said:


> We do still have the freedom of speech. And we should not be afraid to use our freedom to say what we believe. If you cannot say what you believe, then you have surrendered that right without a fight. The second amendment also guarantees the right to bear arms. If you surrender the right to free speech here or elsewhere, will you also surrender the right to bear arms? I still believe that our government is "of the People, by the People, and for the People". Others might try to use our government for their personal gain or advancement, but at the end of the day, an informed and active citizentry will prevail.


First look at this, published by the ACLU of all people:
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-constitution-free-zone-map

While your at it, take a look at this:
1st Amendment-free zone faces high court review

I'm sorry, what were you saying about freedom of speech?


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Just Sayin' said:


> I still believe that our government is "of the People, by the People, and for the People". Others might try to use our government for their personal gain or advancement, but at the end of the day, an informed and active citizentry will prevail.


Good for you, but I believe you are mistaken


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Shimmitysham said:


> I'd like to read these two threads....


I believe you will find that when I responded to these threads I was saying "WTF stay away and don't post as these are bad"

Not suprising this was posted by a person with 1 (one) post to his/her name.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Just Sayin' said:


> We do still have the freedom of speech. And we should not be afraid to use our freedom to say what we believe. If you cannot say what you believe, then you have surrendered that right without a fight. The second amendment also guarantees the right to bear arms. If you surrender the right to free speech here or elsewhere, will you also surrender the right to bear arms? I still believe that our government is "of the People, by the People, and for the People". Others might try to use our government for their personal gain or advancement, but at the end of the day, an informed and active citizentry will prevail.


Oh, I almost forgot to add, check this out:
Obama signs new Executive Order expanding Homeland Security mission in the U.S. - National Finance Examiner | Examiner.com

That article is the simplified version of this:
Executive Order -- Establishing the White House Homeland Security Partnership Council | The White House


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

As president I would automatically cancel every presidential order ever enacted,

Plus I would abolish the department of education, which was enacted in Jimmy Carters reign, now could this be good?


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

The EPA would be the first on my chopping block. Then I would hire the Ramones to write a rock-and-roll song about it called: "The EPA Took My Baby Away".


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Most govt agencies need to go. Most things taken over by the feds should be handled at the state level. The federal govt looks like Chris Christie, overbearing and over weight.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Old SF Guy said:


> Amen...the department of Education is just the department of Propaganda...and re-education.


You are correct; and the re-education has been named "The Common Core Education Program". Check it out. It is an attempt to remove educational diversity and independent thinking while re-educating our children along socialist lines.

When I'm not playing Five-O, I'm the head of security at a high school and deeply entrenched in the "inner workings" of it all and it is sickening.


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

MR, if you don't believe that an informed and active citizentry will prevail, then what will? 

I still believe that a difference can be made by the average citizen. To believe otherwise goes against all my other core values. And I don't believe that I'm being Pollyanna in that respect.

Inceptor, I do believe that the NSA is capable of gathering an incredible amount of info. But again, who is going to act upon it? Montana, are you going to be reactivated, jump into an M1 and charge my house, just because the gov't told you to? What about the guy that's currently serving? What do you think the current LEO is going to do, if told to raid houses strictly on political views? All the ones I know, won't. 

Y'all can provide all the links to support your argument you want. Some of them are true, some are half true, some are somewhere inbetween, and some are just plain made up. I'm in no more a position to validate their claims, than I am to argue that they aren't true. I do believe that if the federal government were to try to restrict the freedom of speech of every outspoken citizen, or to deny them the right to bear arms, that there would be a severe and very demostrative reaction from the general citizentry. 

As far as lists go, if I am on one or more, so be it. It does not infringe on my rights to be included on some government agency's list. If they start rolling up folks on their "lists", I'm pretty sure that soon word will spread and it will become nearly impossible for the government to continue.

As I see it, we still hold the power in this country.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Just Sayin' said:


> MR, if you don't believe that an informed and active citizentry will prevail, then what will?
> 
> I still believe that a difference can be made by the average citizen. To believe otherwise goes against all my other core values. And I don't believe that I'm being Pollyanna in that respect.
> 
> ...


So you think the executive order is phony? Did you bother to read it? All the news reports held by Napolitano were made up? She really didn't say that and maybe it was really an SNL skit that MSM reported erroneously?

Ok, so the govt is in great shape and we have nothing to worry about. Nothing to see here, move along, move along.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Where did I say they would be kicking in your door?

What I asked was do you believe those are true? Did you read the executive order that was initiated by Bush but greatly expanded by your hero? Or did someone post spam on the White House website because it couldn't possibly be true?

And I had asked if you really thought Janet made that declaration or was that faked too?


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

inceptor said:


> Where did I say they would be kicking in your door?
> 
> What I asked was do you believe those are true? Did you read the executive order that was initiated by Bush but greatly expanded by your hero? Or did someone post spam on the White House website because it couldn't possibly be true?
> 
> And I had asked if you really thought Janet made that declaration or was that faked too?


All I can say is, "It's on the internet, it must be true".


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Just Sayin' said:


> All I can say is, "It's on the internet, it must be true".


Abraham Lincoln said that


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Bacon anyone?


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Too late the turtle ate it.


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## LANCERCO001 (Jan 20, 2014)

as everyone can tell i'm new here but id like to say something. when did this happen? when was it that we became fearful of our government. i can understand a level of reservation when talking to somebody new on these forums as knowledge is power and some times people tend to do destructive things with that knowledge. i understand that many a time someone might be a fool, or even a plant. but when was it that those of use state side decided to speak in whispers and not voice our opinion allowed? when was it that the term patriot now means terrorist? when was it that we became fearful of the men in black suits? when was it that we allowed our constitutional rights to be stripped from us one by one? we are swept up in fear and paranoia and in a way that saddens me.

truth be told i am a bit radical in my thought process and ill be the first to tell you that, and i am most likely younger then most here but i was raised on the belief that this was the greatest country in the world because of how our government was molded and created to protect the citizens from oppression and "we the people" had the rights, not the government. so why is it that we are fearful and not angry? why is it that we are not calling it what it is and why are we not calling these "elected" representative out on their bullshit?

in the end this is all just food for thought...

anyways i wish you all a pleasant evening and perhaps ill be on tomorrow for some more stimulating conversation. good night


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

the fear of government, it may seem we are fearful, we are fearful of a 6 by 8 cell with concrete floors and a room mate named bubba...

a lot of topics ring alarm bells like, how do you make mines, or how to make explosives or we are recruiting for a militia (as far as we know could be a modern terrorist cell) (another watch list mark for me)

we don't know the intention of the person on the otherside of a computer screen, (what this thread is all about) so with the current failures in society, we expect the worse (and quite rightly should)

some people have innocent questions and don't think before asking, others could be what we are worried about

good luck


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## machinejjh (Nov 13, 2012)

I've been here for about a year, I read a lot and post little. But some of these topics are a huge red flag to me. I come here to learn, so usually I shut my trap and pay attention.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Just Sayin' said:


> All I can say is, "It's on the internet, it must be true".


So even though it was release4 by the White House it can't be true because bad things can't happen to good people.

The DHS declaring US vets as terrorists can't be true either because Janet didn't sit down with me and tell me herself. The media made all of it up.

Ok, nooooooo problem. :roll:


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

FACT; The federal government and state government has information on most if not all of us. 

Most of us have filed taxes with the IRS, many are or have been in the Military, many are in or have been enrolled in government Schools, many work or have worked for the government. Ever filled out a Census form, if so you are on file with the Feds.

Do you have a drivers license, fishing, hunting, CC, marriage and even dog licenses? If so you are file with a local or state government. Have you bought a firearm in the last 30 or 40 years and filled out federal paperwork? Yep, the Feds have a file on it. Got a Birth Certificate? What about a Federally or State funded student loan? How about a Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac or HUD housing loans? Bingo, on file with the govt. Social Security number? You guessed it, on file with Uncle Sam.........

My point is--our government knows who you are and if someone in the government is willing to do some research they can find you. But we all know that for every intelligent person in the federal government, there are hundreds of bumbling fools as well. 

I'll take my chances but take them wisely.


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## LANCERCO001 (Jan 20, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> the fear of government, it may seem we are fearful, we are fearful of a 6 by 8 cell with concrete floors and a room mate named bubba...
> 
> a lot of topics ring alarm bells like, how do you make mines, or how to make explosives or *we are recruiting for a militia* (as far as we know could be a modern terrorist cell) (another watch list mark for me)
> 
> ...


poking a little fun there i see...

i see your point and it is a valid one. however it makes me ask the question a second time "when did the term Patriot's meaning change to domestic terrorist? don't get me wrong there are plenty *AND I MEAN PLENTY* of whack jobs out there. but you want to know the strangely sad thing is sometimes these whack jobs do have a point... let me be clear i in no way agree with the action taken by certain individuals i.e. Christopher Jordan Dorner and men such as himself, however there is a air of truth about corruption in local law enforcement "from time to time". in a sad way when pushed a unstable person pushes back a hell of a lot harder then he should.

"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day." -Joker

for some reason this quote seemed appropriate.

in my humble opinion the world is what we make of it or what we allow it to be made for us, and sadly in the states we have allowed a few people to make our world for us to *their* liking. i'd be lying if i didn't say i think it is about time we took our freedom back, but sadly i am just one man with a crazy opinion...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

LANCERCO001 said:


> poking a little fun there i see...
> 
> i see your point and it is a valid one. however it makes me ask the question a second time "when did the term Patriot's meaning change to domestic terrorist?


About 30 seconds after Barack HUSSIEN Obama told his first official lie - "I swear to protect and defend the Constitution................", January 2009.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

Just Sayin' said:


> Wow, I guess I should craft this post with extreme care.
> 
> Really guys? This thread sounds like some reality show caricature of paranoid preppers. Do any of you really believe that the government is singling you out of 300 million or so U.S. citizens for what you post on this site? Who is going to come after you? The military? The ones with the tat's and 5 or 6 (or more) deployments who the military is "downsizing"? Is it the LEO's who are a large population of this and other sites? Can you imagine someone telling these groups "we're going to conduct a raid to take their guns and maybe imprison them because they are dissenting against the government"? I will grant you, a small percentage might be persuaded to participate in such an action, but the larger percentage would immediately tell them to go screw themselves and the word would be out. How long would it take, even if the government jammed all communications, for individual Americans who understand their rights and are willing to defend them, to either individually or as groups to stop such an action?
> 
> ...


Spoken like a true American. Thank you.


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## jc-hunter (Nov 13, 2012)

This is caused by what both party's have been doing for decades. The " frog in the pot of hot water" scenario. You put a frog in a pot of cold water and he is happy. You turn the temp up very slowly and he wont even notice it , until its too late. That is exactly what our gov. has been doing for decades. Slowly getting us used to less rights, more gov. regulation, devaluing the dollar, etc. The average dumbed down American doesnt even notice because they are too busy texting , watching Honey Boo Boo, and worried about the next new phone that might come out.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

We as a society are gullible. We believe the political answer to problems is in a couple of parties that are clearly against us, against our liberties, for codes and regulations that were created to stifle and enslave us, for global corporations and central banks that own us, and answer to masters that are clearly not us.

We get our information from the "press" that is owned by corporations. Think about that for a minute when you realize the press never gives you the whole and real truth, never asks the real questions and always ignores those things that should be told to the public. If you determine the press is in collusion, that is simply because the press is owned by the corporations, therefore are merely the media outlets for those entities.

Think back to 9/11. Let's even ignore all the inconsistencies of the official story. This nation was never in any existential threat, and neither was the constitution - not from the alleged attackers, anyway. Shortly afterward, bin Laden and al Qaeda was fingered as being the bad guys; the same group of people who were trained and funded by the CIA. The same group that is, even today, sometimes funded, sometimes blamed and sometimes pursued. The leader, bin Laden, was determined to be hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan, whose leaders were only months before were being courted by the administration on behalf of Haliburton for access to the nation for the purpose of oil and gas pipeline construction, the same leaders who declined the offers because it didn't want to get entangled with the West and its offerings. Pakistan, meanwhile, the nation that is a fundamental Islamic and nuclear state that supported maddrassas that kicked out jihadists at a feverish pace, was declared to be our ally after it allegedly bent to political pressures and shut down the Islamic schools. This, the same country that was supposed to have been the final hiding spot of bin Laden before he was allegedly killed and then dumped way out to sea.
So, where are we with Afghanistan, today? 

Anyway....

So, somehow Hussein gets into the mix. Remember Hussein, right? The American trained graduate of the School of Americas, the dictator who was installed and supported by the U.S. government, the leader who was given the green light by the Bush administration to attack Kuwait only to find the U.S. government immediately rallying the world to stomp a mud hole in his country? Even though he was very much contained, he was linked to terrorism (by intel that then became bad intel...oops) and became the target of the U.S. military. What has become of Iraq, now? One thing is for certain, you do not want to be a Christian in that country. Not, unless you want to be martyred to Heaven post-haste. Speaking of which, have you noticed that every place that has caught the eye of the last two administration have become Islamic-controlled death zones for Christians? Meanwhile, the last two administrations have been good friends to the Muslims, preferring them as immigrants over the Christians of those same nations? One would almost think something is up, huh?

After all of this, tell me this; who has been the most devastating enemy to our rights and liberties? Since the Clinton administration, who has called Bible believing American the enemies of state, regaled them as being the ones who should be viewed with suspicion, has worked to minimize the ethics, morals and principles of such citizens in the governmental, military and judicial arenas of this nation, has treated all citizens as suspects while bending over backwards to give those who believe in the manner as the CIA-created "enemy" as good a reputation as possible, and tells us that all of this is for our own good? Is it al Qaeda that is collecting all communications by citizens (screw the 4th amendment), is it al Qaeda that is groping little old grannies of Irish descent for their knitting needles, has it been al Qaeda that has set up check points on interstates...I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

I find it very telling that the "Patriot" Act had already been assembled during the Clinton administration, only a few tweaks needed for the day it was to be delivered for our own good, to protect us from the new, shadowy enemy we weren't even to call by name. Wouldn't want to hurt any feelings, you understand. It should be a clear indicator of malice, when the government brings in immigrants who adhere to a countering system and philosophy in such a manner that those immigrants are altering the way of governance of sections of cities, but then violating the 4th amendment with impunity in order to watch and search anyone so that we are all safe from the enemy. I find it very interesting to notice that the definition of enemy is changing to include all those who believe as the founding fathers did. I find it very discouraging to see that there is no reason to believe there is going to be a correction in course.

We are gullible, we believe whatever story we are given through the corporate-owned media outlets, and we do not even see the train that is barreling our way. After all, we aren't told of a train, are we?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

As far as freedom of speech, be careful not to talk too loudly. The IRS might hear you. You don't want them to think you are speaking contrary to the Establishment line.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

The sad part is that we are NOT being singled out! They do the same thing to everybody....

Well then, that makes it better. (???)


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## Silverback (Jan 20, 2014)

I work in IT, it has been my trade for the better part of two decades and my lifestyle since I was learning to read on an apple playing Rod's Dungeon.

At my work, I know everything everyone does, As an admin I have collected syslogs of internet use that includes, bandwidth (by page visited), website time( time you stay on a state listed by name) down to your chat logs on MSN, Google talk or your favorite match making site. In a funny conversation I had at the end of last year one of our Accounting ladies was giving me a hard time over a short downtime that effected her. It was all in jest but I started listing off the things she does, the timeframes she does it and to the extent she does. I even started asking her how her dates with so and so (usernames here) were going. and I told her I should just forward this report to the boss and see how it helps her bonus.... Let me repeat, we were joking at each other. The sad truth was she was in shock at how much I knew by simple gateway packet inspection. 

Now throw in the mix I also have ran message boards much like this one, I know what is logged, the table structure. The ease of crawling the site (using a robot to collect information on usernames and post history) with no administration access. I know that with Database Admin access or even poor security client access I can get quite a bit of information on the users using SQL Injection techniques. 

I'll stop there, but let me just say that nothing you say on the internet under any encryption or layered under any Logless VPN gateway spoof or whatever technique on encryption you are using is completely safe. All you can do is add hurdles and slow a determined hacker down... Nothing you say or submit is safe. so only say that which you are willing to allow others to know.

So not feeling like you can speak completely open, In truth you cannot. What you can do is give good advice while holding some sense of anonymity. 

Remember that as I press this submit button, the site has the option to track when, where it came from (IP Region based track) and who up to and including my computer, operating system and logged in username. Welcome to the computer age and be afraid of those who truly understand it. 

Just not me, I am actually a nice guy.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Silverback said:


> I work in IT, it has been my trade for the better part of two decades and my lifestyle since I was learning to read on an apple playing Rod's Dungeon.
> 
> At my work, I know everything everyone does, As an admin I have collected syslogs of internet use that includes, bandwidth (by page visited), website time( time you stay on a state listed by name) down to your chat logs on MSN, Google talk or your favorite match making site. In a funny conversation I had at the end of last year one of our Accounting ladies was giving me a hard time over a short downtime that effected her. It was all in jest but I started listing off the things she does, the timeframes she does it and to the extent she does. I even started asking her how her dates with so and so (usernames here) were going. and I told her I should just forward this report to the boss and see how it helps her bonus.... Let me repeat, we were joking at each other. The sad truth was she was in shock at how much I knew by simple gateway packet inspection.
> 
> ...


Oh crap. Now you tell me!


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## Silverback (Jan 20, 2014)

Hehe I stopped before I got into cross site hacking, imagine gaining the user and password for one site... How many people use the same email/username password for all their sites with little or no variation. Get access to a simple message board suddenly you know their paypal, Citi Card or even (Russia) Target Card account info. Its a periviable snowball.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Welcome Silverback

For the rest of you, if you have not seen this one, make sure you have your speakers on (but NOT at work). Hilarious!


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Silverback said:


> Hehe I stopped before I got into cross site hacking, imagine gaining the user and password for one site... How many people use the same email/username password for all their sites with little or no variation. Get access to a simple message board suddenly you know their paypal, Citi Card or even (Russia) Target Card account info. Its a periviable snowball.


outside who I'm.shit stirring this week, a hand full of prepaid credit card numbers (that have sweet f all on them) and who is my "flirt of the month" they can have all that info, the worse I loose is $20 so be it, it's all accepted risks when using the interwebs


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)




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## Silverback (Jan 20, 2014)

Yup that sums it up, what I do for a living in a nutshell.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Silverback said:


> Yup that sums it up, what I do for a living in a nutshell.


Inor = middleware developer. I feel your pain.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

OK, the website is going down.

It will be back up in 20.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

shotlady said:


> im more worried about wierdos citizens than the gobmint.  I don't really do anything wrong but sit on the dang internet too much when im home on the weekends.


 wierdos citizens are the ones that gave us this government and they are breeding


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Denton for president


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Denton for president


He wouldn't be the first President to fall off Marine one though!


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## jc-hunter (Nov 13, 2012)

Deebo said:


> Denton for president


 I have read Dentons posts a lot, and even on other forums. I have never met him, but would shake his hand with HONOR and , YES would vote for him in a heartbeat. I know he has integrity, truth, patriotism, and a Christian/Founders/Constitutionalist mind. Luv Ya Bro.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Denton for president


You stole my line...just sayin


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## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

I am Starting a new Consulting Business
Lions Tamed, Widows Wooed, Golf Games Fixed, Bars Cleared, Wars Started, Wars Ended, Dictators Installed, Elections Rigged.


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Gunner's Mate said:


> I am Starting a new Consulting Business
> Lions Tamed, Widows Wooed, Golf Games Fixed, Bars Cleared, Wars Started, Wars Ended, Dictators Installed, Elections Rigged.


You forgot the Virgins part.

Sponsored by Cialis and Viagra :wink:


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Old SF Guy said:


> Inceptor...please list who this is for...Bush is far from my hero...


Ok, I've been called out. Here is the truth.

The President warned you about people like me. The low life uneducated ******** "they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion" or both. I admit it. That's me.

All the rumors about the vets being put on terrorist list, the faking of executive orders, the rumors about doing away with the 2nd amendment. We did that, not the government. The President said if you like your guns, you can keep you guns. You can believe him. All they hype about gun control, we made that up. The video with Biden and the shotgun talk, that was ringer.

We convinced the Republicans to shut down the govt to make your people look bad and it backfired on us.

The 18 trillion dollar debt, that was caused by Bush but we hid it until a democrat came to power. That's when we released it. Our fault.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

jc-hunter said:


> I have read Dentons posts a lot, and even on other forums. I have never met him, but would shake his hand with HONOR and , YES would vote for him in a heartbeat. I know he has integrity, truth, patriotism, and a Christian/Founders/Constitutionalist mind. Luv Ya Bro.


Wait, there are other forums?


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Wait, there are other forums?


He's cheating on us!!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I thought you guys were my friends. Why do y'all want to see me assassinated by "them?"

I appreciate the kind words, even with the veiled threat of death. This being the case, y'all would have to be in the cabinet.

Better yet, elect me temporary king. That way, I won't have to deal with screaming bought congressmen when I take a chainsaw to all those agencies that are stifling the American spirit, and all those unconstitutional statutes that are strangling our liberties.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

jc-hunter said:


> I have read Dentons posts a lot, and even on other forums. I have never met him, but would shake his hand with HONOR and , YES would vote for him in a heartbeat. I know he has integrity, truth, patriotism, and a Christian/Founders/Constitutionalist mind. Luv Ya Bro.


Love ya back, brother.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Mish said:


> He's cheating on us!!


Only with one other place - taurusarmed.net. It is the best gun forum out there. The people are always knowledgeable, friendly, and about as goofy as this one. I don't post as much as I used to because my shooting time is next to nill, and I feel I have nothing much to offer, there. They are a great bunch of folks, though.

I found this site through that site, as they are somewhat connected through the board brand. I am a Taurus nut, which is how I found that site.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Denton said:


> I thought you guys were my friends. Why do y'all want to see me assassinated by "them?"
> 
> I appreciate the kind words, even with the veiled threat of death. This being the case, y'all would have to be in the cabinet.
> 
> Better yet, elect me temporary king. That way, I won't have to deal with screaming bought congressmen when I take a chainsaw to all those agencies that are stifling the American spirit, and all those unconstitutional statutes that are strangling our liberties.


Wait a minute here... Leave the agencies to me. I like firing incompetent people. It would be even more fun to watch you take a chainsaw to the congressmen!


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

I'd vote for Denton.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

SF Guy, your thoughts make a lot of sense. I'd like to point out something, though.

That pendulum swings between the "left" side and the "right" side of that which we are told is center, but it has nothing to do with the constitution. No matter which way that pendulum swings, the ball is still being moved farther away from that which the founders built. Most people are not aware of it, and they get really angry when this is suggested.

I agree with you that things are going to be according to God's will. We all have choices to make, and we are going to be held responsible for those choices. Those entities that have been destroying out society, looting our coffers and using us (military people) to influence the world for their own profit. 

You know as well as I, the founding fathers would be shedding blood, right now, if they were awakened to see the scene of today. You, as I, also wonder who be their targets of anger, considering all of this has occurred because We, the People, preferred pleasure and entertainment over knowledge and vigilance. Shame on us, the stupid, carnal Americans!
In other words, is it God's will, are we going to get what we begged for, and will the nation see it for what it is and repent?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Arizona Infidel said:


> I'd vote for Denton.


Seems I have no friends who wish me to live.

Where's Ron Paul when I need him?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Inor said:


> Wait a minute here... Leave the agencies to me. I like firing incompetent people. It would be even more fun to watch you take a chainsaw to the congressmen!


When you say, "firing," is it what I hope it is?


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Denton said:


> When you say, "firing," is it what I hope it is?


You're the king... Whatever you wish my Liege.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Inor said:


> You're the king... Whatever you wish my Liege.


The magazines are wide open for your needs and convenience.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Inor said:


> Wait a minute here... Leave the agencies to me. I like firing incompetent people. It would be even more fun to watch you take a chainsaw to the congressmen!


Denton for president and Inor for VP................. points to ponder.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Inor said:


> You're the king... Whatever you wish my Liege.


Denton,
Either Inor thinks you are a city in Belgium or his feudal lord. (Liege. Good one Inor, had to look that one up!) ::clapping::


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Denton said:


> Seems I have no friends who wish me to live.
> 
> Where's Ron Paul when I need him?


I vow to defend and protect you night and day.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Coming back to the principle of the thread as MR started,just how many posts or how long does an op need to be here to be "allegedly trusted"?.I have been here a little under a year with only 336 posts.do you "trust" ME yet?.before I joined this forum,I observed a lot of the ops and decided that with this motley assortment of ops was actually a pretty good crew and that I would like to affiliate myself here.I am wary of some of the new posters here with 1-10 posts and are posting about the best weapon for zombies,which airsoft gun is the best or,my bov is better than yours.some of these posters are actually children I believe.but, you have to figure,they have to ask the questions and at least they are interested in preparedness to a certain degree,maybe.there are probably some that are "plants" and be what they may be,there are a lot of forums out there that have a lot more radical thinkers and that if we pick and choose our reading and ignoring different posters that "they" will probably just go away and play their extrapolated game elsewhere......BTW, Denton,I would not wish any political office on you or anyone here because I believe that would ruin the free thinking that we all share here.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Thanks, MI; it is nice to know I have one friend!

You also hit on a point. Post numbers don't really give an indication of anything other than whether someone is clumsy or if they are good at what they do.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Thank you Sir!,you do have friends!.Taurusgunner was beginning to wonder why you haven't been at the the other forum by the way.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I belong to some firearm forums as well. Probably more than 50. Some of them get obvious entrapment type posts, trolling for illegal activity. Like homemade silencers, how to convert semi auto to full auto, making 12 ga booby traps, short barreled shotguns, etc.
I mean, they are really obvious to those who know firearms and firearm laws.
I have not seen that here. Yet.
Well, except for the 12 ga booby trap guy back in 2012. I think he was reported and removed.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I belong to some firearm forums as well. Probably more than 50. Some of them get obvious entrapment type posts, trolling for illegal activity. Like homemade silencers, how to convert semi auto to full auto, making 12 ga booby traps, short barreled shotguns, etc.
> I mean, they are really obvious to those who know firearms and firearm laws.
> I have not seen that here. Yet.
> Well, except for the 12 ga booby trap guy back in 2012. I think he was reported and removed.


There was the landmine guy a couple weeks ago too.


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## longrider (Mar 25, 2013)

Just Sayin', I dissagree with your post, that the military and police officers can just say no to a direct order, if it's unlawful. Look what happened during Katrina. People got not only their guns, but their food confiscated. It wasn't other citizens that did that. And yes, I believe the gobberment would keep track of who has more guns, etc. 

Do you not believe that some people - including a good part of congress and the president - (no, I won't capitolize them) want citizens to be gunless? How else will they know what areas to look, if they don't keep track?


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Inor said:


> There was the landmine guy a couple weeks ago too.


I didn't want any part of that mess. Did that guy get shown the exit?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

longrider said:


> Just Sayin', I dissagree with your post, that the military and police officers can just say no to a direct order, if it's unlawful. Look what happened during Katrina. People got not only their guns, but their food confiscated. It wasn't other citizens that did that. And yes, I believe the gobberment would keep track of who has more guns, etc.
> 
> Do you not believe that some people - including a good part of congress and the president - (no, I won't capitolize them) want citizens to be gunless? How else will they know what areas to look, if they don't keep track?


I agree. While I was told (in 1968) that it was the duty of a soldier to disobey an unlawful order, the devil is in the details of what exactly is an unlawful order.
If an officer gives you a direct order to murder a civilian in cold blood, that obviously is an unlawful order.
If an officer gives you a direct order to disarm civilians? That probably would not be an unlawful order. Oh, if you refuse, it may come out at your Courts Martial that it was unlawful, but I seriously doubt it.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Arizona Infidel said:


> I didn't want any part of that mess. Did that guy get shown the exit?


He probably got a job as a navigator for Obamacare...


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Inor said:


> He probably got a job as a navigator for Obamacare...


Or flying drones over the USA with nobama's koran blessing!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

To start this thread, Montana Rancher wrote, "It is sad, I don't feel I can say what I want to"'.

Well that has been a trend that all of us have been witnessing in this great country for years, and it is damn sad. I started reading this forum because I saw that many of you think and do things like me (based on your posts). So I read posts for a while and finally decided to join. Because I had questions, because I had answers and because I liked the sense of humor and it was informative and fun. 

Common sense tells us not to say certain things or discuss certain subjects so we don't. When we see certain types of people we either ignore their posts and they die and leave or many give them hell and they straighten up or leave. Another good reason to be part of this forum. Anyway, just felt like saying that, no real point.

God Save this Great Republic


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Hell, I can say anything I want, some may not like it, but I just have to be able to live/die with what may happen after I say it!


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Y'all can speak freely, I'm here for ya!


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## Silverback (Jan 20, 2014)

PaulS said:


> Y'all can speak freely, I'm here for ya!


Protein Bars... really really.... you do not want to be around me and we bug out with these in my pack.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

One cannot speak freely nowadays. You can be ostracized, be ridiculed and people think you are a whack job. There are many things you need to keep to yourself in order to survive. Few think the way many here do. That's part of the reason we are here.

To those of you who think this country is fine, no problem, I feel sorry for you. If you think the way society is today is good and normal, we grew up in seriously different generations. We used to be able to have a civil conversation and still disagree. Now you get shouted down and ridiculed. These same people say they believe in the 1st Amendment. They do, that is until you say something they disagree with. Then you need to be shut down. 

Back in the early 70's, my best friend and I used to do okay selling and trading guns at the local flea market. No problems, no hassles. Now you would be targeted and probably arrested. Back then there were no mass shootings. Several guns shows in Texas, including one near me have been shutdown recently because the libs screamed long and loud. 

As to the trust issue. I don't care how long you have been here and how many posts you have. If I trust you, it's because you have earned it. Maybe some of them ARE really good agents doing their job. Well then, I've been had. But I don't think the people I like and trust are on the other side. You tend to get a feel for how someone thinks after a while and well, you know.................


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

inceptor said:


> One cannot speak freely nowadays. You can be ostracized, be ridiculed and people think you are a whack job. There are many things you need to keep to yourself in order to survive. Few think the way many here do. That's part of the reason we are here.
> 
> To those of you who think this country is fine, no problem, I feel sorry for you. If you think the way society is today is good and normal, we grew up in seriously different generations. We used to be able to have a civil conversation and still disagree. Now you get shouted down and ridiculed. These same people say they believe in the 1st Amendment. They do, that is until you say something they disagree with. Then you need to be shut down.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more! I actually just started a thread about this. Seems if you say something the left doesn't agree with. They ridicule you and want to boycott you until advertisers drop you. We need to start doing the same thing!! We outnumber them, we should be the ones they are scared of!!


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm not trying to scare anyone or really piss them off, but I might by what I say. Does anyone really care, is my opinion that important to someone else. I'm not a cop, but I do have a gun, I'm not a politician or president, but I vote, don't own a business/have employees and have no real power over anyone, so who cares if I say shit???? Wish I had 400 mariuana<sp? stocks though so I could make some money for prepping. :wink:


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

ekim said:


> I'm not trying to scare anyone or really piss them off, but I might by what I say. Does anyone really care, is my opinion that important to someone else. I'm not a cop, but I do have a gun, I'm not a politician or president, but I vote, don't own a business/have employees and have no real power over anyone, so who cares if I say shit???? Wish I had 400 mariuana<sp? stocks though so I could make some money for prepping. :wink:





ekim said:


> I'm not trying to scare anyone or really piss them off, but I might by what I say. Does anyone really care, is my opinion that important to someone else. I'm not a cop, but I do have a gun, I'm not a politician or president, but I vote, don't own a business/have employees and have no real power over anyone, so who cares if I say shit???? Wish I had 400 marijuana stocks though, so I could make some money for prepping. :wink:


Alright already. We heard you the first time.
:lol:


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

whoops, double post. I need the post count!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, I fixed it.


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## KYPrepper (Jan 17, 2014)

I'm a new member myself and when I first read the post I took it the complete wrong way. Then I went back and read again. I'm 24 with no military (or militia) experience for that matter, and was kind of thrown off by the original post. The reason I don't have military experience is mainly for the fact my dad served for the US Army during the Vietnam conflict. He was stationed there for about 9 months before being shipped to Germany. I don't think I have ever seen my father get as upset as he did the day I mentioned wanting to join the Army. Thinking he would be proud of me, I was met with the exact opposite reaction. From then on, without my father even elaborating on why he reacted that way, I knew he had witnessed something somewhere, maybe not even during his time in Vietnam, that had stuck with him forever. The way he acted, it's wasn't the horrors of war that made him that mad. My dad was a quite man, never really talked much. That day he didn't have to say a word. I never joined any government agency, and my dad quietly passed away in 2005. My mind took off from there. I will never act as if I know much(or anything really) about politics today, and I'am very aware that I should, but I do know one thing, If I can't reach out and touch you, I'll never trust you. And even if I can touch you, you still got a long way to go haha. Those questions are things I'm going to start keeping an eye on, and I believe like you fellas, I'm going to avoid them like the plague.


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## longrider (Mar 25, 2013)

I should say, Just Sayin', that I would think a lot of our military and police officers would Want to ignor a direct order, but probably dare not. The legal ramifications are scary. In a SHTF situation, maybe worse than Katrina, they just may ignore orders. Hopefully to the good of citizens. I guess I would have been tempted to say "I didn't see anything, no guns, no extra food." in the Katrina situation, but it depends on who is with you at the time. Could they be trusted to back you up...


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

longrider said:


> I should say, Just Sayin', that I would think a lot of our military and police officers would Want to ignor a direct order, but probably dare not. The legal ramifications are scary. In a SHTF situation, maybe worse than Katrina, they just may ignore orders. Hopefully to the good of citizens. I guess I would have been tempted to say "I didn't see anything, no guns, no extra food." in the Katrina situation, but it depends on who is with you at the time. Could they be trusted to back you up...


I agree with you, not all in the military or law enforcement will ignore direct orders that are either illegal or even immoral in alot of situations. But I do think that enough would, in most circumstances, and that would cripple any efforts that the government would promulgate through those two organizations. If it is a truly SHTF situation, I believe that even more would refuse such orders. I can only speak of how I would have behaved when I was active duty. I still think that most who are in these professions are there in a large part because of their sense of duty and honor, and because they are even more educated today, would react accordingly to an unlawful order much as I would. I could be wrong, but I hope for our all our sakes, I'm not.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Just Sayin' said:


> I agree with you, not all in the military or law enforcement will ignore direct orders that are either illegal or even immoral in alot of situations. But I do think that enough would, in most circumstances, and that would cripple any efforts that the government would promulgate through those two organizations. If it is a truly SHTF situation, I believe that even more would refuse such orders. I can only speak of how I would have behaved when I was active duty. I still think that most who are in these professions are there in a large part because of their sense of duty and honor, and because they are even more educated today, would react accordingly to an unlawful order much as I would. I could be wrong, but I hope for our all our sakes, I'm not.


Read this article. It explains just how it will happen.

*Gun grabs and grabs of anything else - children, money, real estate, raw milk - don't come down the chain of command as such. There is not an edict that comes out saying:

Obama Executive Order 666:

All federal, state, and local law enforcement officers and all active duty military personnel are hereby ordered and required to seize firearms from all persons whose only crime is non-compliance with the firearms transfer provisions contained in the Children's and Puppies' Omnibus Health and Safety Act of 2014. Operation Patriot Crush will commence at midnight on June 1, 2014. All will be required to participate from that date forward and to actively engage in door-to-door gun seizure operations against fellow Americans. Constitutional objections by officers will not be recognized and are hereby deemed meritless.*

Your 2nd Amendment Cop Buddy Will Take Your Guns by David Hathaway


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Denton said:


> Read this article. It explains just how it will happen.
> 
> *Gun grabs and grabs of anything else - children, money, real estate, raw milk - don't come down the chain of command as such. There is not an edict that comes out saying:
> 
> ...


Excellent read, but so scary. It's worked very well so far, why stop now. Like hillary says, what difference does it make now!!!! And it will get easier each time they do it.


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## Just Sayin' (Dec 5, 2013)

Denton said:


> Read this article. It explains just how it will happen.
> 
> *Gun grabs and grabs of anything else - children, money, real estate, raw milk - don't come down the chain of command as such. There is not an edict that comes out saying:
> 
> ...


It's never gonna happen the way that the link proposes. I'm sorry but I've got to disagree with the Big (or little) gov't roundup theory in the U.S.

First, the very first raid is going to go viral. Justin Bieber wishes he could get such internet publicity. I mean in like 5 minutes. Okay, unless the gov't shuts downs the entire civilian communications grid. It's gonna be out and then what? Do you really believe that my local SD is going to want to move on to me next? Regardless of what the "Feds" tell them? How long does it take to drive a 4 wheeler to my nearest neighbor? Think they can clear my house and property, and apprehend me (and my family) in less than 15 mins?

And that is assuming that my local SD is willing to participate. Remember, I shoot with them. They know I've got a lot cooler stuff than they do. And I do know how to use it. ummm, maybe they're not so hot on this idea now.

Let's say they make it past me, now they have Bubba with an AR, a six pack of PBR, and almost a hundred years of the South could have won the war. Are things looking any brighter for the "confiscators"? Okay, they make it past the first Bubba...Anyone catching my drift here?

Long and short of it is, there are not enough LEO's or military to make that scenario really happen where I live. Is it possible in places where gun control is the norm? 
Maybe. And I say that because the places where gun control are the norm, seem to have a disproporunately high rate of gun violence.

I don't see the government coming in and "taking" mine or anyone elses weapons without a hell of a fight. Kind of like nukes (smile for the NSA), the genie is out of the bottle. I'm not sure of the exact numbers (Paul S. help me out here) but I'm sure if you add all the LEO and military guys and gals together, it would still be less than 2% of the population. Not really great odds when you consider them. At some point very soon, the guys they tell to do these things are gonna say, if you want it done, do it yourself. I'll hold my breath for that.
JMHO


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Katrina. Boston bombing. Just two thoughts, right off the bat. There have been many individual accounts, on top of that. 

I was stationed in Germany for years. I never once heard of German robots looking like humans doing those things that happened in Nazi Germany. It was not just the Jews who found themselves in concentration camps.

Never say never. Especially when there are numerous examples of it happening, already.

Good night.


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## STAHL (Jan 24, 2014)

I agree. I retired from the Army last year and the guys I served with would absolutely question or out right refuse an order that went against the constitution or our moral beliefs. I can't imagine what the German soldiers where thinking when given orders that commit atrocities towards our fellow man. I was a medivac pilot and served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. I saw the after effects of our troops after an IED or fire fight. Let's just say the local people are not among my favorites. Regardless of how I feel towards them there is no way I could see treating the bad guys the way the Nazis treated the Jewish. I think our troops do have good moral values and would not carry out unlawful or immoral orders.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Then there was Waco and Ruby Ridge, we don't and never will know what really happen at Newtown. There is nothing our or any other countries governments won't do to keep or expand they're power and control. Hell, Lincoln started a war that killed over 650,000 American people just to keep the federal government in control over the states and then said it was for the black slaves, and the people still think it's true.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Just Sayin and STAHL -

I really want to believe you guys. But I also want to believe the IRS will abuse us all equally. I want to believe our Justice Department wants to catch criminals, not sell guns to them. I want to believe that I would be welcome to live in any state in the union as long as I can support myself. I want to believe our elections are free and fair. Our government and the people that work for it, have really not given me much lately that I can put my faith in.

'2016: Obama's America' Filmmaker Indicted for Violating Campaign Finance Laws - The Hollywood Reporter

Conservative activist O'Keefe claims Cuomo targeting his group | Fox News


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)




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