# Desiderata



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Desiderata
Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

© Max Ehrmann 1927


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A good reminder every once in a while...
Thank you Jak.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I have carried thia around with me since I was 18. At every job trailer I set up an office in. I print this out and hang it on the wall.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Is that the PAGAN quote of the day??????


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Is that the PAGAN quote of the day??????


If it were pagan, would it be any less true?

I believe it used "God" and "Him" as opposed to "god" and "him"

Your BS "holier than thou" routine got old a long time ago. I'd sooner sprout a reproductive organ from my forehead than believe you are 1/10th the "Christian" you claim to be.

Feel free to take your dissent elsewhere.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Thanks, Jak. I just read this to my wife and we both commented on its' eternal truth.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Such things need to be shared, I sent to my closest and dearest friends and family.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> If it were pagan, would it be any less true?
> 
> I believe it used "God" and "Him" as opposed to "god" and "him"
> 
> ...


I like my dissent right here thank you...

If it were pagan would it be any less true... well it is pagan

"Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be. "

Jesus ask a very important question... Who do you say I am.... it is important... Who we view him to be determines how we act in many different ways

Mark 8:27 
Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, "Who do people say I am?"
Mark 8:29 
"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"...............

As to truth... there are some truths in the poem...but there are also some heretical ideas...

The snake in the garden was truthful also

here is my question to you... if your friend is making brownies for you.. how much feces can they add to the mix before you refuse to eat them???


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Or, you pompous jack nugget, it could be referring to perception of God. As is benevolent, vengeful, loving. Or as an entity over watching his creation, the fiber of that very creation, Jesus himself, or as a separate entity as the father of Christ. Possibly ones perception as the universe, or a voice in one's head or someone to whom we can speak.

Jesus also warned of you. False holy men, spreading the word as it suits them. Twisting scripture to suit private vendettas.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Max Ehrmann and the Desiderata

A quick biography if you still doubt.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Ehrmann was a remarkable man. Another piece from his biography:

*A Prayer*

Let me do my work each day; and if the darkened hours of despair overcome me, may I not forget the strength that comforted me in the desolation of other times.

May I still remember the bright hours that found me walking over the silent hills of my childhood, or dreaming on the margin of a quiet river, when a light glowed within me, and I promised my early God to have courage amid the tempests of the changing years.

Spare me from bitterness and from the sharp passions of unguarded moments. May I not forget that poverty and riches are of the spirit.

Though the world knows me not, may my thoughts and actions be such as shall keep me friendly with myself.

Lift up my eyes from the earth, and let me not forget the uses of the stars. Forbid that I should judge others lest I condemn myself.

Let me not follow the clamour of the world, but walk calmly in my path.

Give me a few friends who will love me for what I am; and keep ever burning before my vagrant steps the kindly light of hope.

And though age and infirmity overtake me, and I come not within sight of the castle of my dreams, teach me still to be thankful for life, and for time's olden memories that are good and sweet; and may the evening's twilight find me gentle still.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

Jakthesoldier said:


> If it were pagan, would it be any less true?
> 
> I believe it used "God" and "Him" as opposed to "god" and "him"
> 
> ...


"As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons."

A little reminder to "practice what you preach".


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> Or, you pompous jack nugget, it could be referring to perception of God. As is benevolent, vengeful, loving. Or as an entity over watching his creation, the fiber of that very creation, Jesus himself, or as a separate entity as the father of Christ. Possibly ones perception as the universe, or a voice in one's head or someone to whom we can speak.
> 
> Jesus also warned of you. False holy men, spreading the word as it suits them. Twisting scripture to suit private vendettas.


If I am twisting scripture -then please point that out and stop the personal attacks against me... I did not attack you. I was pointing out that the poem was full of pagan ideas... defend it if you want but attacking me is not defending the poem...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> Max Ehrmann and the Desiderata
> 
> A quick biography if you still doubt.


Using a biography from a Wicca/Witchcraft/Paganism site does not your side aid... lol


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

PatriotFlamethrower said:


> "As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons."
> 
> A little reminder to "practice what you preach".


"without surrender" This animosity extends far beyond this thread.



Maine-Marine said:


> If I am twisting scripture -then please point that out and stop the personal attacks against me... I did not attack you. I was pointing out that the poem was full of pagan ideas... defend it if you want but attacking me is not defending the poem...


I'm not defending the poem, don't need to. Its truths have been around far longer than you have, and will remain long after you rot in a box.

I am taking aim at you personally, as you take aim at me on a regular basis.
I am targeting you for your nonsensical feigned hyper adherence to "biblical" teachings which you pick and choose from with minimal understanding. I'm targeting your lies and pompous nonsense for placing yourself on a pedestal and using that pedestal as a judges' pulpit. You are entirely hypocritical in your judgement and condemnation of everything that you see.

There is good in everything. There is even good in the Devil. EVERY darkness has a light to balance it. The fact that you were unable to see the truth in the poem and goodness in it just goes to show you are not seeking the light, but are seeking to label everything you can as darkness.

I find myself convinced you are the type of person who watches David Benoit tapes while flogging yourself with a full erection.

Rather than judging everything and seeking to condemn everything why not take a step back for a second? Why not try to see the good in things. Why not try to see the reasons to save those you can. God gave the Jews a very strict set of guidelines. He also stated that these laws were not for the Gentiles. Jesus said to love thy enemy, and they neighbor. We are supposed to love and support and save each other, so why not concentrate on that. Why not follow the teaching to live an example that will make others want what you have. I have to say, if you were my only example of what it means to be a Christian, I would NOT follow you. I would shun you. You are, in fact, the exact reason people shy away from Christianity. The judgmental, hypocritical, holier than thou snobs that give Christians a bad name. The type who are only interested in using the Bible as a weapon to lower other people to their own level to disguise the fact that they are well aware that they are so full of shortcomings. You, sir, have not just a log in your eye, you have a forest.

And let me be clear, I am among those who help "grace abound" I am no saint. I am aware I am far from perfect. I can educate you further than you ever thought possible about many things, and on others I have much to learn, and even more to actually apply. I am a hypocrite myself at times. I admit and acknowledge I am flawed.

I do not think I am better than you, but I know you are no better than me, or anyone else.

I ask this, either stop being a dick, or lets agree to disagree, and just stay off of my posts, and I'll stay off of yours, or both.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

It's kinda like "this land is your land" to me. The meaning in the eye of the beholder. I always like desiderata. It just means "things to be desired", not "law" or "gospel".

No need to go all "American Beauty" about it.....


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> "without surrender" This animosity extends far beyond this thread.
> 
> I'm not defending the poem, don't need to. Its truths have been around far longer than you have, and will remain long after you rot in a box.
> 
> ...


And I was not being critical of you, I was being critical of the poem. As a general rule I comment on ideas, principals, morals, etc... I try not to comment or attack a person...

I know that most people prefer their christian to be unread and half hearted in their convictions... that is not me... I am a full fledged fundamentalists Bible believing, follower of Jesus Christ...

Romans 6:1 
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

I have never said I am better then anybody... I often notice that people use that as an attack when they themselves are convicted in the heart.

and I would again ask - if you think I have misquoted scripture then take me to task and correct me here in front of our peers...

If you think I can make people walk away from Jesus you need to reread much of the bible

Darkness is not balanced by light... darkness is an absences of light!!!! there is a lot to be learned in understanding that

I think there are folks here that would say I do not condemn everything... there are many things I agree with....

It is not the outright wrong that gets people... it is the partial truth the soft nudge.... the "you will not surely die"

As for me - I am not important... I have never pointed a finger at me and said I am great.. I have always pointed to Jesus.... Find one time I have suggested that others should follow me.

remember .... Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.....


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I never stated you misquoted scripture, I stated it was used out of context to your own personal end.

You have directly attacked people, and I cite the thread about scavenging from food distribution centers.

You did imply you were better than others again in that same thread by stating you wouldn't steal to eat or feed your family, after many others stated they would, and condemned them for doing so.

You do cause people to turn from Christ. By being a pompous and self righteous, while claiming to be a Christian, you provide an example of everything that is wrong with Christians as a group, and reaffirm to people that they want no part of it. By being judgmental you intimidate and alienate the timid and remorseful. 

Tact is the key, and you lack it. 

It doesn't matter how delicious a cake is, if you smash it in someone's face, they will spit it out.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

We just want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by the Man.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)




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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Is that the PAGAN quote of the day??????


So what if it is? Pagan's can have a good idea too. If you go through life rejecting all art, advances in science, and turning down the lifeguard at the pool when you are drowning all because they are not of Christian origin, you are going to have a short unhappy life. Sometimes God puts people in our life because we need them, not always the other way around. I've prayed for miracles, for help, for intervention in the past and been sent non-Christians to answer my prayers.

We just bought a house because we were in a bit of a pickle at the old one (they started building the 20 acre pot farm). We prayed and were sent a Jewish real estate agent and bought a house from a Hindu family. All has worked out as it should...



> INVICTUS!
> Out of the night that covers me,
> Black as the pit from pole to pole,
> I thank whatever gods may be
> ...


That is the one that gets me through the dark times.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

If we ever have a prepper meet and greet, Jax would be easy to spot because he'd be the prepper with genitalia sprouting from his forehead. I think we've all felt that way over a response at one time or another, just a bit more circumspect as to what we ask for.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> I never stated you misquoted scripture, I stated it was used out of context to your own personal end.


Then explain to me the exact context it was used in and how I was wrong



Jakthesoldier said:


> You have directly attacked people, and I cite the thread about scavenging from food distribution centers.


 Please show me where I DIRECTLY attacked a person... and lets be open here.. asking a question like "Do you think it is ok to kill women and children in order to feed yourself?" is not an attack



Jakthesoldier said:


> You did imply you were better than others again in that same thread by stating you wouldn't steal to eat or feed your family, after many others stated they would, and condemned them for doing so.


Please show me where I condemned them... or was I just saying that murder is murder and stealing is stealing



Jakthesoldier said:


> You do cause people to turn from Christ. By being a pompous and self righteous, while claiming to be a Christian, you provide an example of everything that is wrong with Christians as a group, and reaffirm to people that they want no part of it. By being judgmental you intimidate and alienate the timid and remorseful.


NO man comes to the father unless he is called... are you suggestion that the Father's call is not strong enbough to overcome those times I may offend somebody???



Jakthesoldier said:


> Tact is the key, and you lack it.


 Actually I think you would prefer me to be a weak willed silent christian that never makes waves.... Sorry that is not me... I also think maybe you feel a little guilty or convicted???



Jakthesoldier said:


> It doesn't matter how delicious a cake is, if you smash it in someone's face, they will spit it out.


lol..anybody that is a Christian for the reward is not really a Christian.. you either understand and accept that Jesus is God and Savior or you do not...

You may not agree with my way of wording things or my stance on things...but I stand boldly in front my God - unashamed and unwavering... I am betting there are at least 20 people on this forum that would KNOW my stance on a topic without asking....

I will leave you with this

Galatians 1:10 .....do I seek to please men? For if I yet sought to please men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

and really this whole thing could have gone much different, I merely asked "is this the pagan quote of the day"... you decided to take it to the next level


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

GTGallop said:


> So what if it is? Pagan's can have a good idea too.  If you go through life rejecting all art, advances in science, and turning down the lifeguard at the pool when you are drowning all because they are not of Christian origin, you are going to have a short unhappy life. Sometimes God puts people in our life because we need them, not always the other way around. I've prayed for miracles, for help, for intervention in the past and been sent non-Christians to answer my prayers.
> 
> We just bought a house because we were in a bit of a pickle at the old one (they started building the 20 acre pot farm). We prayed and were sent a Jewish real estate agent and bought a house from a Hindu family. All has worked out as it should...
> 
> That is the one that gets me through the dark times.


Are you saying Jews are pagans???

GT - overall there was nothing wrong with the poem... well the any god you think thing was a little too much.... but besides that it was nice... I was just asking..if that was the PAGAN QUOTE OF The DAY... some people are just too easily offended...


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

Jakthesoldier Therefore be at peace with God said:


> I have had this part memorized for years and when things are not quite right and feeling a little down I will say it to myself. Find it a little easier to move on.
> Thanks Jak and don't let the resident naysayer get to you, he babbles a lot.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

slewfoot said:


> don't let the resident naysayer get to you, he babbles a lot.


Did hawgrider post here somewhere???? if so i missed it


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Are you saying Jews are pagans???
> 
> GT - overall there was nothing wrong with the poem... well the any god you think thing was a little too much.... but besides that it was nice... I was just asking..if that was the PAGAN QUOTE OF The DAY... some people are just too easily offended...


Not "any god you think" , "God, whatever you conceive Him to be". Again, "God" and "Him" not "god" and "him"


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> Not "any god you think" , "God, whatever you conceive Him to be". Again, "God" and "Him" not "god" and "him"


"God, whatever you conceive Him to be" pretty much what I paraphrased when i said ... "any god you think"

*conceive
verb con·ceive \kən-ˈsēv\

: to think of or create (something) in the mind*

SO whatever God you think.... feel free to worship your own made up God.... you can capitalize it all you want....


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Then explain to me the exact context it was used in and how I was wrong
> 
> Please show me where I DIRECTLY attacked a person... and lets be open here.. asking a question like "Do you think it is ok to kill women and children in order to feed yourself?" is not an attack
> 
> ...


I'll start from the bottom.

You started with a condescending asinine remark, entirely irrelevant to the spirit of the post and thread.

Using Paul's condemnation of the galatians to justify your misinterpreted version of the bible and it's teachings kills two birds with one stone.

There are more than 20. Everyone who reads this forum knows you will take the stance that makes you seem holler than everyone else. Even if you sound like a jackass doing it, even if it isn't actually scripturally sound.

You are doing it for a reward. You want to go to heaven. You also do it out of fear of hell. Even still, you missed the point. If you try to force something down someone's throat, they reject it. When you force your beliefs on others, even if they agree with your faith, they will reject it.

I don't care two tufts of fur off a cockroach about your will or faith. They are your own. I do care that you poison people's taste of the Christian faith by being boisterous, pompous, and intolerant.

No man comes to the Father except through Christ. ALL have been called.

And I'll just leave the top. If you can't figure out when you are attacking people against just stating your belief on a subject, you probably shouldn't be on the internet, much less talking about religion.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> I'll start from the bottom.
> 
> You started with a condescending asinine remark, entirely irrelevant to the spirit of the post and thread.
> 
> ...


Vague and lacks any true basis for my to offer a rebuttal.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier


I am still waiting for you to show evidence of things you have accused me of. Your vague comments lack any true evidence. Your thought feelings or what you think can not be present as evidence!

Show me ONE verse I took out of context - be specific 

Show me ONE time I attacked a person (not an idea)

It appears you like your Christians to be weak and silent... 

There is an old saying/question - "Are you following Jesus for the gift or the gift giver"... in a true followers world we follow for the gift giver - Jesus

I do not take out the trash, bring home the bacon, and work because my wife sleeps with me.... I do those things because I LOVE her and my family and it is the correct and proper thing to do

I say I will not murder or steal to feed my family because I love Jesus and it is the proper thing to do...

I understand you do not get it... very few people understand... 

Yes I am a Bible believing fundamental Follower of Jesus Christ... and everything I do I do in order to show my love for him (Do not get me wring, I screw up - but I quickly ask forgiveness) 

Jesus asked the question... WHO DO PEOPLE SAY I AM.... it is an important question.. Who do YOU say he is....


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I just gave you specific examples, yet you keep asking for them. 

This is really simple. 

I'm actually glad this is still going, because the more you continue to act a fool, the longer this post stays at the top of the activity feed, and the more people will see and enjoy the "pagan" poem that I posted for them to enjoy.

It doesn't matter if you love the gift, or the gift giver. In the end it comes down to the carrot and the stick. You don't love a skunk, because its gifts are stench. You love a dog because it gives you attention and companionship. You love your wife because she gives you companionship that you enjoy. No that isn't a euphemism. You love Christ and God because they offer you gifts in exchange for love and obedience. 

If God sent Jesus out to go tell people "believe in me and follow me and when you die you can be cast into hell" I doubt they would have gotten any where, no matter how much healing of the sick and lame they did.

If they said believe in me and you will go to heaven when you die, some might follow. More would be concerned simply with what is important right now.

When they said believe in me or go to hell, people sat up and paid attention.


You are not a fundamental bible believing follower of Christ.

You just bought a car. You have internet access. You have preps.

A TRUE FUNDAMENTAL FOLLOWER would have the clothes on his back and be out spreading the word as Christ commanded. He would abandon the pleasures of the flesh. He would render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. He would be a living example of the love of Christ. 

You have none of these qualities.

In fact, not once have you attempted to save me.

Not nearly 1/10th of your activity is "in the name of God", much less "everything you do"

Do you get dressed thinking "gee I hope God loves my new outfit"
Do you cook dinner thinking "God sure will love this steak I am making"
Do you practice making children thinking "God is sure going to love me doing this for him"
Do you brush your teeth thinking "God gave me this body and I'm going to honor him by caring for it" or "I really don't want a cavity"
Do you take a dump praising God? "Oh lord! Please accept this offering of piss and crap"

I doubt God finds your "sacrifice" of argument with me very pleasing.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

What amuses me most, is that I have yet to reveal my own religious beliefs, and you have made it clear what you think you believe.

Yet, when I tally this conversation up, one (1) person has agreed with one (1) thing you have said. 

You seem to believe me to be a pagan, (probably because of the quote in my signature) and yourself a Christian, yet, it seems your fellow Christians don't agree with your BS. 

Did you know, if you are the only person who believes something, and it isn't true, that just because you believe it is does not make it so, and it does make you insane?

Now since I've had to lay things out Kindergarten style for you before, let me do so again.

I am NOT referring to God, Jesus, or the Bible with that statement.

I AM referring to YOUR psychosis, and sociopathy. 

Let me further clarify that there is hope for you.

You can be a loud strong Christian, without being an asshole at the same time.

You can preach loudly to those who will listen. 

You can live loudly, showing everyone what a Christian should look like.

You can practice kindness. You can treat others as you would wish to be treated. You can give to the needy, and help them out of their situations by dedicating your time to teaching them trades, helping procure interview clothing, tutoring, etc. You can volunteer at drug and alcohol rehabilitation facilities. You could volunteer at hospitals and hospices. You could never pass a homeless man with his hand out, even if you know he is going to buy drugs or beer, because you have, and he needs. You could even be a Good Christian here, by running a religious thread of daily bible studies, or other related concepts. You could see things you disagree with and politely and tactfully disagree with reasons, not sounding like you are being condescending or condemning, or you could SHUT UP. 

Tact is not about giving in, sugar coating, or being wishywashy. It isn't about lying, concealing, or half truth. It is about presenting an argument in such a way that people don't want to argue back.

I have heard it described as thus: Tact is the ability to tell someone to "go to hell" in such a manor that he looks forward to the trip. Winston Churchill

Tact is what good salesmen have, and used car salesmen lack. UNK

Tact is the ability to make a point without making an enemy. Sir Isaac Newton

A man may lack everything but tact and conviction and still be a forcible speaker; but without these nothing will avail... Fluency, grace, logical order, and the like, are merely the decorative surface of oratory. Charles Horton Cooley


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

"Go merrily amidst the savage and the muslim and remember what great joy there is in slaying; as far as possible, without creeping other dudes out, do them the full tilt inglorious bast**d, for yea, they surely do it unto you; with all it's stupid, ignorant and beastly, the world still has potential; be careful; kill a commie for mommie."

Sorry just a break from the 119th conference of nicea


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

without creeping other dudes out...


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

What's creepier than gringos freaked out on bible when it's the devil coming for em? Plus, it couldn't stink up what was supposed to be a nice thread any worse. 
Bah.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I was just quoting the more amusing part of your post.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> What amuses me most, is that I have yet to reveal my own religious beliefs, and you have made it clear what you think you believe.
> 
> Yet, when I tally this conversation up, one (1) person has agreed with one (1) thing you have said.
> 
> ...


Off to work so will answer more later but..



Jakthesoldier said:


> "Did you know, if you are the only person who believes something, and it isn't true, that just because you believe it is does not make it so, and it does make you insane?"


 At one point one person believed the world was round and that it circled the sun... he was jailed and punished....

the real truth is - might and popularity do not make right

I do not think you are a pagan....I actually think you are a lost soul who rejects Jesus

you keep saying things about me without providing any evidence.... you might as well just say - Maine-Marine is a poopy head

the fact is that : Jesus is now living in your head because of this thread - you are thinking about him (and things i have said) well manly because I pointed out correctly that the concept of a god that you can create in your mind is pagan/heathen unholy incorrect and un-Godly

Saving you.... the word NEVER goes out void....

you will never like anything I say in regards to Faith or Religion because you HATE


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

The only saving that is going to be done here... is me saving the good people of this forum from seeing another religious battle. hehe

Let's pick a new topic, shall we?!! =)


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