# Faraday Cage / EMP Shielded Storage Container - Prototype Questions!



## adk (Dec 14, 2012)

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and this is my first post. 

Lately I have been intrigued with the concept of a worst-case-scenario EMP event. I consider the likelihood of such an event extremely low, though it got me thinking about how to protect items like flashlights, radios, etc. Since I store these items anyway, I figure it would be prudent to store them with some level of shielding.

I began my search on Google and on Amazon looking for a simple storage container that has between 40 - 80db of shielding. Besides the 'EMP-proof' bags (that have mixed results), I have only come across DIY articles using foil, plastic wrap, and galvanized steel. 

All of these solutions seem incredibly inconvenient and totally conspicuous. Does anyone else agree? 

Therefore, I have been working on a prototype that I consider to be a much more elegant solution. Essentially, I am creating a storage container that is much like what you probably already use for storage and organization in your house. The difference is that it will be shielded and offer protection for the contents inside. There are, of course, a few proprietary aspects of this that make it able to shield against an EMP.

I am posting because I would really like feedback on the idea:

- Does this sound like something you would be interested in buying? If so, what price point is the most you would be willing to pay?
- Does it solve a need?
- What other features/ ideas should I be considering?

If this seems like it has merit, I have a manufacturer lined up in the US (100% made on American soil!) and am ready to go into production. 

I would really like to get into detailed discussions with interested members ASAP so please PM me or post your comments here.

Lastly - let's not turn this into 'this is dumb an EMP won't happen' debate. I believe there is some market demand for an item such as this, and I would like to get feedback from the people who agree.

Thank you everyone!

Best,

Alex

P.S. - If this does go into production the people who provide quality information and truly want to help will get a free product out of the first batch!


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

At the moment old microwaves (below) make excellent anti-EMP storage boxes, but they're pretty small and can only take small items like a radio, so a bigger box would definitely be worth having..
Which raises the point as to what exactly do we need to protect apart from radios?


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

I believe any old microwave in good repair is an adequate emp shield as well as Jim has posted a cheap way to keep small objects shielded from emp. Could you sell some to average I have money prepper or sheeple in general. Prolly.

lolz Jim. Your on the ball aint ya.


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## adk (Dec 14, 2012)

Thanks for the responses!

Jim - agreed, a microwave is an effective shield for those who want to use it. I would say that the main differences in what I am proposing is:

- Storage space (families have a handful of flashlights, walkie talkies, an emergency radio, perhaps some fancy electronic weapons sites (that probably will be on the weapon to stay zero'd but some are expensive and people might prefer the extra protection), perhaps a spare laptop? All of these items are stored and organized as you want, versus fitting as much as possible into the microwave.

- Inconspicuous and easier to store - A microwave oven can't be stored under your bed (most likely). It could be stored in a closet, but that looks rather strange? Basement / garage = okay.

Asteroid - you are spot on with your analysis. I believe the target would be people who need more space to safely store the items mentioned above and they are the 'i have money to spend on prepping' and they keep clean, organized homes and organized preps. This container could be placed anywhere they already store items for prepping or normal things in containers like clothes or toys or books. It blends in and is more 'normal' versus a microwave.

Thank you for the candid responses! Keep 'em coming


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

AsteroidX said:


> ..lolz Jim. Your on the ball aint ya.


I've been a strategy and tactics wargame nut for years and it's taught me to automatically look at every possible angle, scenario and permutation that crops up in life, including hypothetical End of World survival situations. My motto is "Fight with your brain first and your weapons second"..

Just to digress slightly, an EM pulse will also blow out car and motorsickle ignitions but I don't recall ever hearing of a way of protecting them, so there's a definite gap in the market for some sort of protection there, maybe an EMP-proof garage?

PS-Or even better, some way of protecting the electronics while out on the road or parked in the open in case a pulse hits at those times.


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## hayden (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm confused on this subject. I see some of the people on here say the cage should be grounded and others say not to ground. I think not to ground. If there is no ground the voltage would not travel thru the cage at all. Put a ground on your cage and the voltage will want to travel thru your cage to get to ground. Why give the voltage a path thru your equipment?


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I haven't studied it much but I think there is a lot of confusion between a large electrostatic charge and and EMF. An EMF would be like taking a magnet across some wires and the voltage would be depended upon the speed of the magnetic wave and the amount of wires or metal it comes in contact with. So if you have a radio with the antenna out it would produce a much higher voltage than with the antenna unhooked. Same thing with having something plugged into the wall outlet, If you have something put in a metal container like a metal garbage can the induced voltage would short out on itself and just produce heat, probably not enough you could measure. A lot of solid state circuits could be effected because the EMF could short out their miniature circuitry or wipe out the memory.


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

I dont want to derail this thread so Ill pose this a possible audience for your FARADAY cage audience:

automobiles: modern will be fubar due to the amount of electronics in them.

older: I know my 70 Chevy pickup has at the most 5 electronic parts that I can think of off the top of my head. This includes radio and defrost.
parts that need to be in FARADAY secure location would be: points, alternator and starter.

feel free to correct this part list or update what a newer car would require to be FARADAY safe besides the garage idea.


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## Old Man (Dec 10, 2012)

I just thinking out load a wonder if my gun safe would work also.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Following net instructions, I EMP-proofed my radio like below by removing the batteries and wrapping it in a plastic bag, then wrapping it in kitchen foill. (The plastic bag is apparently needed to stop the foil from touching the radio) it now sits on a cupboard shelf waiting to be unwrapped and used on Doomsday.
Whether it's 'grounded' or not I don't know, but i don't see how a pulse will be able to get past the foil to fry it.
I'll research 'grounding' on the net and let you know what i find.


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

The difference between a microwave and a gun safe is that a microwave is designed to keep microwaves from exiting it therefore has the added benefit of not letting in waves as well. I do not believe a gun safe would offer the same protection.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Old Man said:


> I just thinking out load a wonder if my gun safe would work also.


I would think a gun safe would be extremely safe as the thicker metal would reduce the chance of the magnetic wave producing magnetic saturation and affecting the material inside.


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## shadownmss (Nov 13, 2012)

ADK......To answer your questions........I do think there would be a small market for a product like that. I think it would need to be the size of a small to medium storage tub that is stackable. I would be willing to pay around $30.00 each for such a product........Good luck with your project!


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Just a thought- with a proper EMP-proof box, the pulse would be travelling down around its walls, ceiling and floor, so I'd definitely keep the stuff inside away from touching any part of it, probably by standing the stuff on a phone book or whatever in the middle to lift it clear of the floor.
That's why i had to wrap my proofed radio in a plastic bag before wrapping it in foil, to keep the radio from touching the pulse-carrying foil.


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## PrepperThyAngus (Sep 30, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> I would think a gun safe would be extremely safe as the thicker metal would reduce the chance of the magnetic wave producing magnetic saturation and affecting the material inside.


The front panel alone would allow EMP radiation into the electronics. Unless drastic shielding is used on the front cover (sides and back are protected by the safe walls), which I'm sure is not use, the safe electronics could fail during EMP.

Also, grounds are not required for EMF shielded, just an all metal enclosure. For the tin foil users...not too sure about that thin stuff, I'd use several layers or thick foil, insulated from electronics of course.

To the OP, there are already several types of EMP proof enclosures used in industrial electronics. Hoffman enclosures is what my work uses to shield against background EMF radiation. The electronics inside are isolated used ceramic or synthetic non conducting standoffs.

Potential buyers would have an easier and cheaper time buying a product already on the market, then trying to engineer a similar thing from scratch then selling. You might be better off re-selling a modified electronics enclosure with build in isolation inside.


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## adk (Dec 14, 2012)

Thank you all for the responses!

The electronic gun safe is a thought I had too. I made sure to get a safe that also has a backup key that could be used because I do believe the electronics would be ruined.

Jim - thanks for the pictorial of what you did. Ideally, this product would allow you to store that radio and more easily without the wrap or phone book (everything inside would be fine and not touching any of the conductive material)

Shadows - thanks for the input and price estimate.

I believe that there is enough of an opportunity + defense/ military applications. 

However - let me throw a new question in to the mix. One option is to instead of selling an actual box, I could sell a special coating that you can use to coat ABS plastic containers of your choice. Would that be more valuable and give more flexibility for what you want to do?


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

adk said:


> ...let me throw a new question in to the mix. One option is to instead of selling an actual box, I could sell a special coating that you can use to coat ABS plastic containers of your choice. Would that be more valuable and give more flexibility for what you want to do?


Paint would certainly expand the available options (tell me if i've missed any out)-

1- Use an old microwave to store small items
2- Buy a larger proper Faraday cage or metal box to store larger items
3- Wrap items in kitchen foil
4- Coat plastic containers with EMP-proof paint


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

Mil surplus ammo cans... from the small 5.56mm variety up to the 30 & 40mm cans.. 
Watertight and good RF/EMP resistance.


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## nadja (May 1, 2012)

Myself, being a retired wood butcher (framer) I still have my two main boxes, and my 2 saddle boxes , which Tuesday, will insulate the inside and store my extra inverter and charge controllers inside. Then some other things come to mind as well, like an extra computer for my car as well as a few other small incidentals. The main thing in my understanding, is to keep any stored items well insulated from the sides of the box.


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