# Prepper forum?



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I have been reading some of the old threads and when ever someone ask about using a car part 
or extension cord or something that you can scarf to use on a solar set up they catch
flack from people about what they should be using and why there idea is not acceptable.
This is a prepper forum? When TSHTF --And it will. You will end up using what ever you
can get your hands on. Maybe I'm wrong --I'm sure you will tell me if I am--
I think we might be better off figuring what we can do with spit and hay bail wire. The
idea of buying the right part on line with your visa is fine for now. But that mentality
might cost you your life before it's over. 

Someone asked about using car parts for a solar controller?
Use a mid 80s Ford voltage regulator -- when I have time I'm going to try this one
someone know has already done it.

EMP fry your diode?
The diode trio out of an old school GM alternator with the built in voltage regulator
works great as a -in line- diode-
Also the old Ford have a in line diode in the headlight wiring 

So who's got an idea of what to use for power makers when the stores are gone?
And yes I'm self mediated


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> So who's got an idea of what to use for power makers when the stores are gone? And yes I'm self mediated


I've given this some thought. I'm hoping an old alternator will work. Hooked up to a bicycle it should provide some output.

Depending on were the EMP hits, not all components should be taken out.


----------



## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Good post, I've often thought of portable generators, there will be a time perhaps when you can no longer find anything to run them on. Well, they are still generators, all you have to do is separate it from the now useless gasoline engine (unless you want to figure out a way to make something for it to run on) and then figure out a way to spin the generator with enough power to make electricity. Hook it to a windmill, watermill, people powered, animal powered? who knows? Perhaps it would be best to keep the engine connected and make the fuel (alcohol) or hydrogen from burning wood?
Necessity is the motherhood of invention after all.


----------



## modfan (Feb 18, 2016)

I saw on another website about mounting an old fashioned car fan directly to the front of an alternator. Then mount it on a pole. It will spin until it catches wind and it will generate power. I thought it was great idea and I wish I would have thought of it


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Just remember, whatever way you drive that generator, it will be hard to rotate under a load.

I have modern military hand crank generators that I can crank for about two minutes while the X-mitter is running.

My long ranged plan was to build a 12 foot diameter water wheel for the river behind me as a last resort for electric.


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

modfan said:


> I saw on another website about mounting an old fashioned car fan directly to the front of an alternator. Then mount it on a pole. It will spin until it catches wind and it will generate power. I thought it was great idea and I wish I would have thought of it


Way too much resistance for that small a fan to work.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Gear reduction. Maybe using a multi speed bicycle chain and sprocket. Belt and pulley, whatever you have.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

budgetprepp-n said:


> I have been reading some of the old threads and when ever someone ask about using a car part
> or extension cord or something that you can scarf to use on a solar set up they catch
> flack from people about what they should be using and why there idea is not acceptable...


I posted on some of those threads. If I was negative or dissmissive of someone's ideas, I apologize. I can be abrupt in my speech patterns sometimes. I meant no disrespect.


----------



## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

budgetprepp-n said:


> I have been reading some of the old threads and when ever someone ask about using a car part
> or extension cord or something that you can scarf to use on a solar set up they catch
> flack from people about what they should be using and why there idea is not acceptable.
> This is a prepper forum? When TSHTF --And it will. You will end up using what ever you
> ...


the idea rejection you REALLY experience with any DIYing - is because you are violating the basic principal of prepping - preparation .... sure improvising, fabricating, scrounging and DIYing are fantastic talents for a prepper to have - but you don't go purposely into a SHTF - half-azzing an important element of your plan ....

*''Maybe I'm wrong --I'm sure you will tell me if I am--I think we might be better off figuring what we can do with spit and hay bail wire. The
idea of buying the right part on line with your visa is fine for now. But that mentality might cost you your life before it's over.'' *

if there's a mentality that'll cost your life - it's relying on a jury rigged project - you buy or build correctly with necessary spares - save the DIYing for the kid's science fair ....


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

The reason some of us told you that most auto alternator regulators would not work as solar controllers is because we know enough about the electrical principals and how different alternators and generators work, we are not just guessing and praying. The reason that some of us discuss proper battery sizing vs panel wattage is because we don't want to kill an expensive battery bank in half the time that a properly matched battery and panel combination would last.

But yes, the diodes in an alternator's rectifier probably will work well if needed to replace a panel's diodes.

Budget, You preform some interesting and often useful experiments, some have great results, others don't do so well and you tell us about them and we all learn from your testing. For that I thank you. But during SHTF when resources are limited and materials often irreplaceable wouldn't actually having firm electrical knowledge be better than "trying something to see if it works"; especially when you discover that you've damaged some irreplaceable electrical components? @budgetprepp-n


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

modfan said:


> I saw on another website about mounting an old fashioned car fan directly to the front of an alternator. Then mount it on a pole. It will spin until it catches wind and it will generate power. I thought it was great idea and I wish I would have thought of it


Saw that article and it does work but the fan isn't large enough to catch much energy plus the fan will rarely spin fast enough to get the alternators voltage over 12v. Most car alternators must spin at least 700-800 rpm before they even produce 12v (voltage goes up as they spin faster). Then as they spin faster and are hooked to a load (battery that needs charging) they require a lot of energy to continue charging at that 12+ volts, Once that alternator has a load put on it it can require up to 3 hp to keep it spinning and putting out a lot of power. For that alternator to put out 85 watts ( 7 amps @ 12v) It needs about .2 hp of energy to turn the alternator. (I can explain the math if needed but trying to keep this post simple.)

But let me give you a different idea.
Any DC permanent magnet motor can be made into a generator and there are probably a dozen PM motors in your house and more in your car. If you take the positive wire from a PM motor and hook it to the Neg terminal on a battery and take the Neg wire from the PM motor and hook it to the batteries Pos terminal the PM motor will run in reverse. So now you put a large diode on that wire from the PM motors Neg wire (which is hooked to the battery Pos) so the battery can't send power to spin the motor. But if you spin the motor by hand (or wind, bike, ect) very fast the PM motor will act as a generator and put power into the battery.

But you've still got the problem of how to spin the motor (or alternator) fast enough to get the output voltage over 12v. If the PM motor had a built in reduction gearbox (like the ones in your windshield wiper motor or power window motor do) then you wouldn't need to spin the input shaft very fast to make the motor spin fast enough to put out 12v. The reduction gearing when you turn them in reverse will now drive the PM motor faster.

For anybody wanting to play with PM gear motors you can buy them easily on E-Bay in all sizes and gear ratios. DC stepper motors are usually PM gear motors. For 12v battery charging I'd suggest something geared to run at less then 100 rpm, designed to run on 18v to 36v DC, and requires at least 2 or more amps. The more amps the PM motor was designed to run on the more amps it can produce without burning out.

There is a lot more to it if you want to make the PM motor "generator" as efficient as possible but you get the idea.


----------



## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

I don't mean to squash anybodys ideas but,automotive alternators are best left on cars.first,you need a charged 12 volt battery to energize the field (they have no permanent magnets to create their own field).second,how are you going to spin it fast enough?.an automotive engine has to spin one at least 1000 rpm to "turn it on",more rpm is obviously better.see attached, Using an Alternator in Renewable Energy Projects

As fars as using diodes from an old alternator,test them first,them make sure they are the correct.
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/semiconductors/chpt-3/diode-ratings/


----------



## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Way too much resistance for that small a fan to work.


It all depends on the load, charging a laptop, could be OK, running a microwave is not going to happen, the resistance of the alternator depends on the load it is connected to.

I agree a larger fan/mill would be better.

*Rancher*


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

azrancher said:


> It all depends on the load, charging a laptop, could be OK, running a microwave is not going to happen, the resistance of the alternator depends on the load it is connected to.
> 
> I agree a larger fan/mill would be better.
> 
> *Rancher*


I understand what you are saying, I also know an automotive fan will not turn over an alternator at all.

It you read my plan, 12 foot water wheel, would be "geared up" to spin alternator at operating speed.

The river here is fast enough to do what I need.

A 100 amp 12VDC alternator needs about 2HP for a 50% load, 4 for 100.


----------



## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

John Galt said:


> But yes, the diodes in an alternator's rectifier probably will work well if needed to replace a panel's diodes.





MI.oldguy said:


> As fars as using diodes from an old alternator,test them first,them make sure they are the correct.
> https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/semiconductors/chpt-3/diode-ratings/


The diodes in an alternator are not the same type as used in a solar panel, the ones in an alternator have a .7 volt forward voltage drop, the ones used in a panel have .2 volt forward voltage drop, yes the can be use, but you lose energy doing so.

*And as I have stated in the past you don't need any stinking diodes in your solar panels, just jumper the diode out and use a main circuit switch to disconnect the panels at night, re-connect in the morning.*

Now that said, the solar cell is also a diode, a PN junction, a rather big one, but it could fail also in an EMP event.

*Rancher*


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> It you read my plan, 12 foot water wheel, would be "geared up" to spin alternator at operating speed..


I've got your 12' water wheel. Finished it yesterday and delivering it to FL next week.


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

That will work!:vs_closedeyes:


----------



## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

I plan on being very low-tech. Not depending on electric if at all possible.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Boss Dog said:


> I plan on being very low-tech. Not depending on electric if at all possible.


I like the ability to microwave my food or use a hot plate without smoke and the smell of cooking food (outdoors) attracting unwanted attention. Not to mention the perimeter security battery powered sensors watching my back. How about clean water form a deep well?


----------



## Fish (Jun 27, 2016)

John Galt said:


> I've got your 12' water wheel. Finished it yesterday and delivering it to FL next week.
> View attachment 55290


<----------So jealous! I LOVE water wheels and the potential energy they can create. I hope one day to be able to have a place where I can have one


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> I posted on some of those threads. If I was negative or dissmissive of someone's ideas, I apologize. I can be abrupt in my speech patterns sometimes. I meant no disrespect.


What @sideKahr said...:vs_laugh:


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

John Galt said:


> I've got your 12' water wheel. Finished it yesterday and delivering it to FL next week.
> View attachment 55290


Bee-U-Tiful!

Have you ever made one out of Stainless Steel?


----------



## modfan (Feb 18, 2016)

Hmm, interesting a thread talking about ideas being shot down without explanation. What do I get "Way too much resistance for that small a fan to work." this without asking the size of the fan, pitch of the fan, how many watts are going to be pulled, or wind speed. My personal thought was a use a 26"fan with some type of weight(maybe a hoop around the outside of the fan) as a flywheel in a 10 to 20 mph wind only using a couple of watts to charge a flashlight, cell phone, or tablet. Your talking less then 1 amp out of a 105 amp alternator. Extrapolating this out a little further 10 watts is about .013 mechanical hp.

Just got curious. A 10mph wind produces .007hp from 1 sqft of wind area. a 26" fan is roughly 2 sqft. So .014hp from a 10 mph wind is very doable. 

Now doing this over about 5 minutes I could and probably am wrong on some aspect. So, feel free to check my work.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Bee-U-Tiful!
> 
> Have you ever made one out of Stainless Steel?


Actually was discussing SS and metal wheels with a fabrication shop this morning, It's a direction I've been investigating taking the business for a while now.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Fish said:


> <----------So jealous! I LOVE water wheels and the potential energy they can create. I hope one day to be able to have a place where I can have one


I used to build the gen packs to hook to the wheels but usually a turbine is a more cost effective way of making electricity.


----------

