# Precious Metals and survival



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Gold and silver are must have items but not for barter.

OK, that sounds crazy, after all what could be better than precious metals for barter. They have been used for milenia as currency and will always hold their value - except in a SHTF senario. Things that are good for barter are those things that are hard to come by and are necessary.

1. things that make you feel good. Alcohol, drugs, coffee, tea, and tobacco in small quantities are good because they make people feel good and those that need them will hold them in high esteem. They have real value in the present.

2. food - if you have enough plus some then you can use small amounts in barter. 

3. batteries - everyone will need them in all different sizes for all kinds of lighting and emergency needs.

4. BIC lighters - most people won't know how to start a fire without a lighter or matches so these are ideal barter items.

5. fishing line, needles and hooks - line in every weight from 4 to 20 pound has uses well beyond food gathering, needles can be used to do emergency stitches with the lighter weight line or fix clothing, the hooks are good for getting fish and small game.

the precious metals are a necessity but they should be stored for when things get back to "normal" - you don't see soldiers on the battlefield trading silver for a smoke or a meal. It doesn't have much value when you are thirsty or starving. You have to remember that the only people who will accept metals will be those who have more than enough of everything else and they will also be very powerful - folks you will want to stay away from for all but emergency situations - like if you need antibiotics or other special medicines. Keep just enough of the metals for those situation and NEVER let anyone know what you have back "home". do your trading away from where you have stuff stashed and farther away from where you want to feel safe.


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## kyletx1911a1 (Jul 16, 2012)

agreed but my precious metal are my weapons. when it slows down one can find money.. leagal that is..


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

I wonder what will happen to all the gold and silver when the governmental authorities outlaw it for use and begin to seize and confiscate it on sight? It is the first thing they plan to seize. But a lot of people do not know that - yet....

Ask the people in Europe how their gold and silver helped them out under their Nazi occupiers.

Ask the Kuwaitis how the Iraqis looted everything made of gold on sight.

Ask the jewelry store and pawn shop owners in downtown New Orleans how it felt to have armed packs of thugs holding them at gunpoint while they emptied out their stores and safes, while the police turned and fled because they were outnumbered and outgunned.

Bury it in the back yard, you say - meet ground penetrating radar. Better disperse it fast if it ever goes down....

Illinois already tried to put laws in place to register and confiscate guns and gold this legislative session.

Wonder why they thought of that as a plan?

The Feds sure have. They have outlawed its possession and transfer before. 

A little food for thought, anyway.


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## john10001 (Mar 20, 2013)

Good suggestions Paul!

I would also add things like Gillette razors to the list. These are expensive enough in good times but WTSHTF not many people will have stockpile of them, will become difficult to obtain and will become very valuable.

Cigarettes etc can be used as barter items or to get out of sticky situations possibly with LEO's. There will be a lot of bribery going on I such dire situations.

Agreed re precious metals. I would say that pure gold and silver bullion will be useful to put savings into and then get back a jump start again when/if things get back to normal.

I would suggest as an item to barter it would be better to have some "junk" gold and silver items to use. E.g. 9ct gold rings, and small silver items. In a SHTF situation the people you're likely dealing with on the black or grey market for food and other items will not know true value of your Eagle, Britannia, Maple Leaf etc, and will be measuring the Gold in terms of junk value (the low end of the market not pure Gold).

Verteidiger - Good points on confiscations! Happened in US once before and under Nazi Germany too. Look at Cyprus now. If you do go with Gold best to have it in small pieces, easily hidden. If value of gold and silver heads skywards in SHTF situation and under confiscations, civil disorder when people regularly getting robbed by gangs or individuals who get them by surprise, better they steal cigarettes from you and you get away with your life than anything more valuable.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I travel quite a bit for business and I do carry about $10 (face value) in pre-1965 quarters with me. They are small, easier to conceal than a stack of currency and easy to change into currency if the need arises (happened a couple weeks ago when I got stuck in Ottawa for a week longer than planned). But your point is well taken. These are "normal" times. Silver or gold would be about useless in the early stages of a long-term crisis.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Gold and Silver are for people that expect some form of normalcy to happen after SHTF and for those of top of "SH'ingTF" and can use it accordingly during that time. Rawles gave good examples of that on one his later books and the soldier trying to get home from Afghanistan post SHTF. His kind of story telling in that also follows that of Jewish families using gold bullion to buy their way out of a one way trip on trains to concentration camps but into Switzerland and off to Spain. In all seriousness I think most around here expect the US Dollar to collapse at some point - I may disagree with some as to when but I do agree that at some point in time the dollar will likely collapse. If you know what you are doing, at the time, with gold and silver it could be quite useful in securing exit from a city, or to procure something of "high value" should you be caught away from home. My wife has Irish blood and so wants to visit her "homeland" once in her life. We've saved for this for almost 10 years and will go next October. I clearly can't take my Kimber 1911 9mm with me or any other firearm for I am no longer permitted to carry outside the US. So I'll carry my two gold eagles, and my bag will have ten silver maples leafs on board. If "SHTF" while I'm in Ireland - I'll at least have that advantage - maybe for a ride home - maybe just as a years' rent in a farmstead. 

I hear the "you can't eat it" comment a lot. Of course not. You can use it so long as someone else will give you something for it - and time has proven that people will give you something for it. Our government may have banned it once, but I don't expect that step to happen again - in this day and age its not going to go over well - kind of like assessing savings accounts in Cyprus.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You must prepare as you see fit.
I do not see gold,silver as much use until the smoke has cleared for some time.
If you have it you would dare not try to use it, someone will just take it.
Defend what you have, acquire what you must have and get better at it. 
Most important pray and work to prevent it from hitting the fan in the first place, it is not going to be fun.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Most important pray and work to prevent it from hitting the fan in the first place, it is not going to be fun.


Once again, Smitty901 has won the prize for most profound thought of the day.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Some where I have picture of gold being loaded into 20 yard dumpsters in Iraq. It was not being thrown away just a way to haul it.
Gold plated AK47's ect. He had all the gold now someone else has all the gold. That is what will happen to it always does it gets taken from the ones that have it and then some one else has it. It was not taken by gold it was taken with a weapon.
The point is most of those that had nothing, living in their run down villages in the middle of no where, are still alive.
No reason for those in power to kill them.


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## ajk1941 (Feb 17, 2013)

The fiat money in your bank may disappear over night, while those same paper bills hidden in your dresser could be devalued by the Fed's after the stock exchange closes on any given Friday. As in Cyprus, with the banks and ATM's closed, the only real currency of any value would be the silver or gold in your hand. It doesn't pay to be unprepared in today's unstable world.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

The biggest problem with precious metals for me is now is not the time to buy any of them. You are buying at near peak prices. If you bought gold at $300 an ounce or silver at $6.00/oz. then today you are sitting pretty. But to buy now violates the fundamental buy low sell high principle. No offense to anyone, and finances are always personal, but to me I would rather own usable assets than own precious metals.
That is how I feel right now; if gold and silver take a dive, I would see things differently.

I invest in real estate and land with my money. Right now, the savvy investors are snapping up houses while mortgage rates are so low. They know when the economy rebounds (as it always does) real estate will increase in value. This assumes one has money to invest, naturally. But people in investment banking are buying farmland for very good reasons, and housing in former bubble markets like South Florida, California, New York, Phoenix and Las Vegas are all seeing outsider investors. That is where institutional investors are investing right now. Follow the money.

I agree paper money in a bank is a waste of earning power, and now it is even risky to have a savings account, using the Cyprus bank levy lesson. But owning land or a house or both free and clear you can live on and not pay a bank for is the new American Dream.

To each their own. Ideally you have both land-based assets and precious metals you own. As always, don't put all your eggs in one basket....


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

It is easier of for me to be a fan of silver since I bought most of my in the late 80's early 90's. 

As for concern about the government taking it - I don't. I just don't think our government would
try that. Yes I know they did once, but times are different today, communication being what it 
is, its just not going to "work" with people. It'd be like trying to confiscate guns - not going to
happen in our life time.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

Ripon said:


> It is easier of for me to be a fan of silver since I bought most of my in the late 80's early 90's.
> 
> As for concern about the government taking it - I don't. I just don't think our government would
> try that. Yes I know they did once, but times are different today, communication being what it
> ...


I am not so sure, Rip. The leftist Democrats in the State of Ill-Annoy have put legislation on the table this session that confiscates guns and gold.

If it really goes to hell in a handbasket, the governments can (and will) impose confiscation on both. What people fail to realize is the Bill of Rights can be suspended - those laws are on the books already.

You can run. You can hide. But if they catch you holding what is illegal to possess, well, we all know what happens next....

-Vert


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I'm a big believer in having an emergency fund that covers 6 months expenses and it is NOT all in the bank, in fact I'm close to closing my last savings account with about $14k in it. When I pull that out I will probably buy more silver, it's way better than keeping too much cash as silver does appreciate in value.

So I keep at home 5k in cash and the rest in junk silver, actually I'm over 6 months now as the silver has kept going up in value.

I'm not really done prepping, but I'm way ahead of most. So I put excess money into PM's and they serve a purpose in that regard.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Montana, I am interested in the idea of junk silver and have looked damaged Morgan dollars and such. Do you buy locally or ? Thanks in advance.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I got all of mine on eBay, the best way to buy them is in rolls to keep the postage down.

Current Melt Value Of Coins - How Much Is Your Coin Worth?

Is a good place to find out the current melt values. Dimes, quarters and halves are usually the best deal as dollars get more of a premium.

I don't buy anything that they don't show actual pictures of all the coins. I prefer the ones with aging as opposed to like new AU and BU because again they cost more over spot price.

Big keys are learn how to spot a fake and test anything you buy, the "ringing" is the easiest method, most of the fakes make a dull sound. If it rings good then check the thickness, if that is standard you should be good but there are other hints in ebays help page on the subject.

Another good bidding technique is to find sales that end at weird times like 3a.m. When less people will be online and often the bids are low.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I get them Craig's List as well. Just keep in mind that pre-1965 coins are 90% silver not 100%. Also, given that you are west of Chicago, it might be worth a trip to outstate rural Wisconsin to check some of the pawn shops. 

If you have read my other posts, you know that I am huge fan of having old silver coins on hand - not for SHTF, but for getting caught off guard during normal times. I was recently stuck in Canada for a week longer than I was planning. I am a small business owner, and since I could not get home to write a normal paycheck for Mrs. Inor, I had to get some cash to get by on for an extra week. My junk silver was a life-saver. (Mrs. Inor was able to move some cash from savings, but I would have been in a tough situation without it.)


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I have, in the past used craigslist want to buy ads to get junk silver or pre 64 coins. I just offer 75 to 90% of the coinflation.com value and do well


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice. Really appreciate it.


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## prep2death (Apr 10, 2013)

Op this is a fantastic post and you have hit everything on the money. Its funny how I never met you but your rationale/thinking is the exact same as mine. The only thing I would add to your list is hygiene items like antiseptic, bandages, hand sanitizer, along with common medicines as disease will be rampant post SHTF.


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