# On Bump Stocks



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

This guy is right on the money. I wish President Trump would watch this.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Saw somewhere, maybe even this site, a theory that maybe Trump is doing this knowing it will be challenged and will lose which will throw it back on Congress to write a new law.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> Saw somewhere, maybe even this site, a theory that maybe Trump is doing this knowing it will be challenged and will lose which will throw it back on Congress to write a new law.


:tango_face_wink:

They will be attempting to amend their "regulatory definition", which is supposed to act as an interpretation of the "statutory definition" that was passed by congress.
However, there is a protection built into this type of thing.
For the proposed section up for change, the CFR states:


> 27 CFR
> § 478.11 Meaning of terms.
> When used in this part and in forms prescribed under this part, *where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof*, terms shall have the meanings ascribed in this section. Words in the plural form shall include the singular, and vice versa, and words importing the masculine gender shall include the feminine. The terms "includes" and "including" do not exclude other things not enumerated which are in the same general class or are otherwise within the scope thereof.


So, if the regulatory definition is considered to be "incompatible" with the statutory definition, it is null and void.

Currently, the regulatory definition used by the BATFE matches almost identical to the statutory definition passed in the National Firearms Act. (only difference is that one uses the term "machinegun" and the other splits it into "machine gun")
Current regulatory definition: (what the rule change would affect)


> 27 CFR 478.11
> Machine gun. Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machine gun, and any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.


Current statutory definition: (definition passed by congress in the NFA)


> 26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions
> (b) Machinegun
> The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.


The proposed rule would add the following text to the regulatory definition:


> For purposes of this definition, the term ''automatically'' as it modifies ''shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot,'' means functioning as the result of a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism that allows the firing of multiple rounds through a single function of the trigger; and ''single function of the trigger'' means a
> single pull of the trigger. The term ''machine gun'' includes bump-stock- type devices, i.e., devices that allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger by harnessing the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm to which it is affixed so that the trigger resets and continues firing without additional
> physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter.


Can anyone reasonably claim these definitions would then still be "compatible"?
To claim that a legal term suddenly now "includes" a whole new category of item is to change the very nature of the original intent of the definition.

This will go nowhere.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Sasquatch said:


> Saw somewhere, maybe even this site, a theory that maybe Trump is doing this knowing it will be challenged and will lose which will throw it back on Congress to write a new law.


I personally don't believe Trump thinks that far ahead.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

As I have said before, Trump is making a mistake pursuing any sort of Bump Stock ban. Not only for the obvious reason that it will not save any lives, but it could open the door for future gun control via EO or bureaucratic regulation. He should be vocal about 2nd amendment cases being heard before the SCOTUS such as the NY case I posted yesterday.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I personally don't believe Trump thinks that far ahead.


I would contend that he's ALWAYS thinking that far ahead, which is why most of what he says and does isn't always clear to those of us living "in the now".

His Twitter rants, his constant media trolling, his saber-rattling, his pompous attitude. They are all *designed* to generate a certain response.
What have the results been?

North Korea denuclearized and actually seeking peace with SK and the world.
Mexico electing a pro-Trump president.
NAFTA being renegotiated into the USMCA with all parties happy.
China agreeing to renegotiate on trade.
Leaving the Paris Accords, and now the people of France are protesting the Accord's effects and chanting "We want Trump" in the streets.

He fires a huge shot across the bow, and then disarms his opponent with an offering of peace. He makes bombastic demands, so that by the time agreements are reached, he's "given up" on the crazy stuff, and gets exactly what he wants as "the compromise", leaving everyone feeling like they won.

He's loud, boisterous, obnoxious, and plays the media like a fiddle. It's all calculated.
I'm sure you simply think I give him too much credit. Time will tell.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> I would contend that he's ALWAYS thinking that far ahead, which is why most of what he says and does isn't always clear to those of us living "in the now".
> 
> His Twitter rants, his constant media trolling, his saber-rattling, his pompous attitude. They are all *designed* to generate a certain response.
> What have the results been?
> ...


If you are one to believe Rush Limbaugh, then Trump is very much thinking ahead and setting things up for the future.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Rush has also described Trump as being the most successful reality TV star with the most successful show. That Trump uses this experience and gamesmanship to play to mainstream media and non-stop haters.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I certainly hope he knows what he’s doing.
The fate of our country is hanging in the balance.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I certainly hope he knows what he's doing.
> The fate of our country is hanging in the balance.


 Probably as well as anyone in his position does. But he can only do so much by himself. Congress, local governments and the people have a say about a lot of what happens too.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I personally don't believe Trump thinks that far ahead.


I don't know how I missed this yesterday but its a coffee soaked keyboard morning here :vs_laugh: RPD you hit the nail on the head!


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

As stated in the article, this move certainly seems to be pre-emptive in nature regarding bump stocks and possibly other items like AR15 pistol braces (recent court case involving the ATF and pistol braces that went the way of the private citizen).



> Effective Immediately: ATF To Discontinue Accessory Classifications


https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/12/10/accessory-classifications/


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

Looks like trump administration will go ahead and publish rules to ban the stocks this friday . https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/poli...utm_term=link&utm_content=2018-12-18T17:36:02


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

RJAMES said:


> Looks like trump administration will go ahead and publish rules to ban the stocks this friday . https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/18/poli...utm_term=link&utm_content=2018-12-18T17:36:02


Big win on that one!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

I guess I'll be cutting the belt loops off all my pants and turning them in.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> I guess I'll be cutting the belt loops off all my pants and turning them in.


And no wood dowel rods in your possession either.

And don't even think about not holding that A2 stock very very tight to your shoulder...

Step right up felonies for everyone!!!!


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I'm buying as many stout, 1/2 inch wide rubber bands as I can find. The marauders and looters might have semi-autos during TEOTWAWKI, but I'll be ready to rock n' roll.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I relish the oncoming lawsuit storm.

This has no chance of survival.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Well it was signed by AG Whitaker and will take effect 90 days from this Friday, so in March.

https://apnews.com/6c1af80fb290472c89fb930e223505af


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I am pretty sure that there will not be very many bump stocks actually turned in....



> DOJ Defines Bump Stocks as 'Machineguns,' Gives Public 90 Days to Hand Them Over


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/18/bump-stock-ban-doj/


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'm thinking of printing one out. I've never been an overnight felon before, just for possessing something that was perfectly legal the day before. Sounds exciting.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Already at least two lawsuits on the way including one by GOA.

https://www.gunowners.org/goa-file-bump-stock-suit.htm

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/lawsuit-challenging-trump-bump-stock-ban


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

RedLion said:


> Already at least two lawsuits on the way including one by GOA.
> 
> https://www.gunowners.org/goa-file-bump-stock-suit.htm
> 
> https://www.firearmspolicy.org/lawsuit-challenging-trump-bump-stock-ban


That second link brings up an interesting point...
When originally thought up, Sessions was the duly appointed and confirmed AG. With him out, and Whitaker acting as temporary AG, does his signature to a rule change hold the same weight? Aside from the implications of the rule change itself, is there any precedent for a temp AG to sign off on such things?


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> That second link brings up an interesting point...
> When originally thought up, Sessions was the duly appointed and confirmed AG. With him out, and Whitaker acting as temporary AG, does his signature to a rule change hold the same weight? Aside from the implications of the rule change itself, is there any precedent for a temp AG to sign off on such things?


IMO, a temp AG should not make a ruling, regulation on anything that is to be prevailing law. Should be a talking head only to make reports on upcoming regulations..


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I do not own one but this is just wrong. 1) shall not be infringed 2) confiscation of private property without compensation If this stands the same thing could happen with high capacity magazines or so called assault weapons ... oopps...... it has in NJ, NY and other locals. I bet there is more than one person out there making a cache and not just for bump sticks.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Build the wall? Nope.
Deport all illegals? Nope.
Put Hillary in jail? Nope.
Get rid of Obamacare? Nope.

Ahh, but he got rid of bump stocks!!!!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Build the wall? Nope.
> Deport all illegals? Nope.
> Put Hillary in jail? Nope.
> Get rid of Obamacare? Nope.
> ...


Blame who for that? The Establishment Republicans of Congress.
President Trump has now had a lesson in politics. Establishment, Globalist, anti-American politics. Money before nation.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

The crazyness is not restricted to bump stocks. Look at the moron elected to led Pittsburgh.

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/894799/498

The law The is being pushed for is clearly in defiance of the state constitution as well as the Bill of Rights. What the hell happened to the fourth amendment? Does one really have to use the second amendment to preserve the other amendments? Evidently many are counting on the general populace not to have the guts to do so.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> Blame who for that? The Establishment Republicans of Congress.
> President Trump has now had a lesson in politics. Establishment, Globalist, anti-American politics. Money before nation.


Maybe RPD got spoiled on the powers of the president when Obama was in office. He might be under the impression that the president can do anything he wants, regardless of the other branches of government. If Trump said it, and hasn't done it, he's the only one blocking himself. He must not be using the office the way it's supposed to be used. Clearly he's an utter failure in the use/abuse of power.

:102:


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Does a law (of any kind) effecting bumpstocks cover only from the day of passage forward, or would all existing bumpstocks be made illegal?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Does a law (of any kind) effecting bumpstocks cover only from the day of passage forward, or would all existing bumpstocks be made illegal?


All existing bumpstocks are illegal with this executive order and in 90 days must be turned in (atf) or destroyed. No compensation to the owner.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

You never (or seldom) hear of a Class III owner commit a crime. Yet, plastic stocks must be confiscated and ground into dust. Your tax dollars at work.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> You never (or seldom) hear of a Class III owner commit a crime. Yet, plastic stocks must be confiscated and ground into dust. Your tax dollars at work.


Big difference between the average Class III owner and Billy Bob with his POS AR w/bump stock.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

After watching the video, it’s obvious we should outlaw and confiscate all rubber bands.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Big difference between the average Class III owner and Billy Bob with his POS AR w/bump stock.


But Billy Bob may have done what ever even with out a piece of plastic. The plastic didn't make him mentally ill, he already was.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Big difference between the average Class III owner and Billy Bob with his POS AR w/bump stock.


Oh, I agree. But the left never wastes a perfectly good corpse. I have known about mechanisms for semi-autos to fire in an "automatic" way for over 25 years. I think the first one I heard of was called a Hell-Fire.

No matter what the device, the left will chip away a little bit. And someday all of those "bits" will be disarmament.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Big difference between the average Class III owner and Billy Bob with his POS AR w/bump stock.


Legally speaking, no there isn't.
We don't hear about Billy Bobs using their bump stocks to break the law just as we don't hear about Class 3 owners using their automatic firearms to break the law.

Until harm comes to an innocent person, there should be no consequence.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

bump stocks... YAWN


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> bump stocks... YAWN


You may not care about bump stocks, but you DO need to care about them being taken away. If they take bump stocks, then what's next?


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

The 2017 Las Vegas massacre, the deadliest mass shooting ever by an individual in the United States, was what focused everyone on the bump stock... turns out Billy Bob used his while breaking the law. So what? Same argument applies: bump stocks don't kill people, people kill people.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

StratMaster said:


> The 2017 Las Vegas massacre, the deadliest mass shooting ever by an individual in the United States, was what focused everyone on the bump stock... turns out Billy Bob used his while breaking the law. So what? Same argument applies: bump stocks don't kill people, people kill people.


But did he actually use the bump stock........


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

ekim said:


> But did he actually use the bump stock........


Makes one think, doesn't it?

A man who left no manifesto, was "alone" in a suite which had a door that could only be locked from the side he was NOT found in, had a laptop with a hard drive that was removed before police could enter the room to find the dead man, and who had performed the necessary calculations to arc a bullet from various caliber rifles fired at a high rate of speed into a crowd beyond the normal engagement range of any of the found rifles. Two distinct rifle reports can be heard on the audio from multiple sources, meaning either more than one shooter, or dual-wielding bump-stock equipped rifles. Only problem with that is, you can't engage the functions of rapid fire with a bump stock unless you can apply forward pressure with the off-hand.

No reason for the shooting given.
Just a dead guy surrounded by guns... with bump stocks on them.

Makes one think...


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I could make something that would work better using a pressure switch, a battery, and a small DC motor in probably an hour. I don't think someone intent on mass killing is going to worry about legal/illegal simulated automatic rate of fire.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> Makes one think, doesn't it?
> 
> A man who left no manifesto, was "alone" in a suite which had a door that could only be locked from the side he was NOT found in, had a laptop with a hard drive that was removed before police could enter the room to find the dead man, and who had performed the necessary calculations to arc a bullet from various caliber rifles fired at a high rate of speed into a crowd beyond the normal engagement range of any of the found rifles. Two distinct rifle reports can be heard on the audio from multiple sources, meaning either more than one shooter, or dual-wielding bump-stock equipped rifles. Only problem with that is, you can't engage the functions of rapid fire with a bump stock unless you can apply forward pressure with the off-hand.
> 
> ...


It is absolutely suspect. I suppose it wouldn't be in the interests of the LVPD or associated muckity-mucks to admit he had a partner who wasn't caught. Can't say... but it sure doesn't add up. I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but the stink on this one just isn't going away.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Makes one think, doesn't it?
> 
> A man who left no manifesto, was "alone" in a suite which had a door that could only be locked from the side he was NOT found in, had a laptop with a hard drive that was removed before police could enter the room to find the dead man, and who had performed the necessary calculations to arc a bullet from various caliber rifles fired at a high rate of speed into a crowd beyond the normal engagement range of any of the found rifles. Two distinct rifle reports can be heard on the audio from multiple sources, meaning either more than one shooter, or dual-wielding bump-stock equipped rifles. Only problem with that is, you can't engage the functions of rapid fire with a bump stock unless you can apply forward pressure with the off-hand.
> 
> ...


....maybe he had a binary trigger and no one has figured that out.

Either way, the left found out about bump stocks and vilified them immediately.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

The people that hate this once great Republic and it’s citizens will do whatever it takes to ensure it’s downfall. As the Clnton’s would say: you have no evidence. However there are many odd circumstances that have not adequately been addressed. Those involved with any potential conspiracy and cover up are masters at it. Move along citizen. Nothing to look at here.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I wish I had a bump stock so I could dare the government to "Come and Take It!"

Molon Labe....


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well somebody needs to decide if the 2nd Ammendment was adopted because of hunting or protecting us from a tyrranical govenment. I think its answer two..but it dont seem fair that citizen soldiers should be able to have howtizers and a bombs etc. There are no rights which are without limitations. They will have to cancel deer season before they come take my thutty thutty. Thats all I know about that...except God is in charge of this mess. Trump is His man for the hour. Lets give him some room to work.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> You may not care about bump stocks, but you DO need to care about them being taken away. If they take bump stocks, then what's next?


I am not sure that bump stocks are really under the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

but to answer your QUESTION "Whats Next"... does anything have to be next.... I am sure people said they same thing when they made automatic weapons to be registered.

I do not think that bump stocks are a SLIPPERY SLOPE type of thing

bump stocks were a stupid idea and mostly used by people that wanted to waste ammo.

YAWN.... next topic


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> I am not sure that bump stocks are really under the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.....


Then scopes, mags, triggers, muzzle brakes, slings, bipods, ammo, ad infitum ad nauseum aren't either.



Maine-Marine said:


> ....but to answer your QUESTION "Whats Next"... does anything have to be next....


*Have you noticed what the left is doing lately?* Going after 'high-capacity' mags, muzzle brakes, bullets etc..... That's how they roll. If they ban enough parts, then there won't be any 2A left. ....



Maine-Marine said:


> ....I do not think that bump stocks are a SLIPPERY SLOPE type of thing....


 Complacency like this is what is eroding everyone's rights. Once 2A is gone, what are you going to fight with when they start dismantling the first, the fourth, fifth, eighth......?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I agree with @Maine-Marine that bump stocks are gimmicky but I do think it's a slippery slope. Kind of like what the Nazis did. They came for the Jews and no one did anything. They came for the gypsies and crippled and no one did anything. Also the gays, the communists, other political dissidents and no one did anything. The came after priest, ministers and unions and again no opposition. When they came for me no one was around to help. I butchered the writing but I am sure I conveyed the point. If you allow parts of the second you do not care about to be taken away, eventually what you care about will be taken away because you will be in such a self inflicted minority position that no one will care about your rights. Think about Nazis, communists and the left in this country. Never think it can not happen here. JMHO.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

One of the "conspiracy theory" pages as per Las Vegas Mass Shooting...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...cy-theory-las-vegas-shooting-dangerous-222576

Anyone else wonder why in he!! this guy would feel the need to risk transporting THIS MANY guns up to his room? Wouldn't a buttload of loaded mags be a better and simpler idea? What was gained by doing this?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Then scopes, mags, triggers, muzzle brakes, slings, bipods, ammo, ad infitum ad nauseum aren't either.


really, I dont mind debating this but really.. the only way they ban ammo and ALL mags is if they ban the guns, scopes...lol, think about it. bi pods... also sort of silly



Back Pack Hack said:


> *Have you noticed what the left is doing lately?* Going after 'high-capacity' mags, muzzle brakes, bullets etc..... That's how they roll. If they ban enough parts, then there won't be any 2A left. ....


I doubt he supreme court will let them ban ammo.... think about it



Back Pack Hack said:


> Complacency like this is what is eroding everyone's rights. Once 2A is gone, what are you going to fight with when they start dismantling the first, the fourth, fifth, eighth......?


Complacency... hell ya, lets not be involved with Complacency.... the sky is falling.....run for the hills

--------------------
you have my word if it comes to them starting to ban weapons that allow me to protect my family or those parts that are needed to do the same I will protest and push back like my forefathers did.... but I am not seeing it... I see them talk talk talk and a few places that liberals control have banned high capacity mags but anybody worth their salt will have friends in another states they can get resources from if the crap hits the fan- or they will get items from the UN supply store

Sorry, I have a hard time getting excited about this.... I just do not see it as a frog in the pot type of thing.... we lasted many years and fought many wars without bump stocks and kicked lots of ass... I just dont see it your way


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

StratMaster said:


> One of the "conspiracy theory" pages as per Las Vegas Mass Shooting...
> 
> https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...cy-theory-las-vegas-shooting-dangerous-222576
> 
> ...


 The government had to make it look really dangerous, what other reason could there be.......


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> ...........bi pods... also sort of silly..........


Yet.... still protected. Until the left finds out some mass shooter owned one.....



Maine-Marine said:


> ...........
> Complacency... hell ya, lets not be involved with Complacency.... the sky is falling.....run for the hills...........


This statement is absolutely hilarious. "Let's not be involved with complacency"........ and yet _that's exactly what you're doing._

"It doesn't affect me because I don't care about it". Well, I don't care about bump stocks either. I don't want one, I don't need one, and I don't see the attraction in having one. But that doesn't mean I should 'let the gun-grabbers take it' in hopes they'll be satisfied? Hell, they're NEVER satisfied. Know thy enemy!


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Zip to 2:50:


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> I agree with @Maine-Marine that bump stocks are gimmicky but I do think it's a slippery slope. Kind of like what the Nazis did. They came for the Jews and no one did anything. They came for the gypsies and crippled and no one did anything. Also the gays, the communists, other political dissidents and no one did anything. The came after priest, ministers and unions and again no opposition. When they came for me no one was around to help. I butchered the writing but I am sure I conveyed the point. If you allow parts of the second you do not care about to be taken away, eventually what you care about will be taken away because you will be in such a self inflicted minority position that no one will care about your rights. Think about Nazis, communists and the left in this country. Never think it can not happen here. JMHO.


Amen..a definite slippery slope.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

And after they get what they say they want, then what do they want to ban next? No to their stupid ban that will do nothing to stop violence.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

High capacity magazines should be next. Mr Sig holds only 13 so he should be good to go. Now the hoggy glock plastic guns which hold 17 just aint nice.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Yet.... still protected. Until the left finds out some mass shooter owned one.....
> 
> This statement is absolutely hilarious. "Let's not be involved with complacency"........ and yet _that's exactly what you're doing._
> 
> "It doesn't affect me because I don't care about it". Well, I don't care about bump stocks either. I don't want one, I don't need one, and I don't see the attraction in having one. But that doesn't mean I should 'let the gun-grabbers take it' in hopes they'll be satisfied? Hell, they're NEVER satisfied. Know thy enemy!


I understand how you think, I just think you are wrong.

I do not think we need to fight every time over everything!

I do not think giving a little is bad....

Machine guns must be registered and a license issued.. that was not a slippery slope

suggesting that everything is going to lead to jews being killed (IE if this happens it will cascade into the worse possible thing and we need to be outraged NOW!!!!) is just crazy

I give a damn about a lot of things, bump stocks is NOT one of them and frankly I am sure that nothing you or anybody else says will get me excited about them

Now if they start to take semi-auto rifles, I will be happy to join up with the protest - even though I am sure I can get one from one of the UN guys they bring in to enforce the new law

AND - I taught combat rifles skills.. and preached NOT firing on automatic or on burst.... well aimed single shots provide more hits and great effectiveness.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Zip to 2:50:


of course she says that... give us an inch we will take a mile.... It is a wonderful saying - just happens less then it is spoken...

I think the word is HYPERBOLE ....


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Maybe RPD got spoiled on the powers of the president when Obama was in office. He might be under the impression that the president can do anything he wants, regardless of the other branches of government. If Trump said it, and hasn't done it, he's the only one blocking himself. He must not be using the office the way it's supposed to be used. Clearly he's an utter failure in the use/abuse of power.
> 
> :102:


No, I made that point for two reasons:
1. There are people who like to say Trump has kept his promises. Perhaps a few, but not the big ones that got him elected.
2. Many people had overestimated his abilities as a deal maker, an excellent negotiator. Actually he is far from it.

We elected an amateur to hold the most important job in the entire world. At first, that seemed like the answer to our problems.
But it is turning out otherwise.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> None are so blind as those who refuse to see.


I have maintained a civil discourse on this discussion.. now you are starting to be a DICK suggestion first I do not care, and then I am willing to send people to their defenseless deaths, and now that I am blind. Make your case using logic and stop with trying to one up the insults or suggests of stupidity. I have said I understand where you are coming from I just disagree, *are you going to start acting like an asshole because I disagree with you on this, because that always wins people of my ILK over to the other side
*
REMEMBER, I am the guy that thinks the man of sin is showing up signing a peace treaty with many and starts killing christian and jews and taking over the world for satan and requiring people to take a mark to be able to buy and sell.. I stock silver and food and guns and weapons and water filters AND SOMEHOW YOU THINK I AM BLIND TO WHAT IS GOING ON

SERIOUSLY, MAYBE YOU NEED TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND NOT FIGHT WITH THE FOLKS THAT ARE ON YOUR SIDE....I AM WILLING TO BET WE AGREE ON 95% OF THINGS AND YOU WANT TO TAKE THIS ONE THING TO THE MATTRESSES

Have a good day sir!!!!


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> ........ Make your case using logic...........


That was tried, and by several others here as well. If you wish to ignore that logic, that's fine. I'm not telling you what to do. I've given you the facts. That's all I can do.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> That was tried, and by several others here as well. If you wish to ignore that logic, that's fine. I'm not telling you what to do. I've given you the facts. That's all I can do.


you are making a prediction of future events and proclaiming the sky is falling if bump stocks are banned... but YOU DO NOT KNOW that will happen.

so lay out some facts that prove that bumps stocks being restricted will lead to the end as we know it.. and not just some 17 year old girl spouting off lines written for her by some anti gun hack

seems as if you are being lead by emotion and not facts or logic...

ok, change my mind

*Lay out your top 5 facts about Why I should care about bump stocks
*


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

There is a case going before the SCOTUS around just this issue of Fed Agencies making law instead of enforcing the law made by Congress or the Constitution for that matter.
The dangers of the Trump Bump Stock ban.....



> Here is the greatest danger in all of this&#8230; they rewrote the legal definition of 'machine gun' which was put into place by congress.
> 
> The following language is added to the end of the current definition of a machine gun.
> 
> ...


Bump stock ban opens the door for literally anything to be declared to be a 'machine gun' - Gunmart Blog


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

RedLion said:


> There is a case going before the SCOTUS around just this issue of Fed Agencies making law instead of enforcing the law made by Congress or the Constitution for that matter.
> The dangers of the Trump Bump Stock ban.....
> 
> Bump stock ban opens the door for literally anything to be declared to be a 'machine gun' - Gunmart Blog


can you find an article NOT WRITTEN BY A* GUN MART* - - - - the article you quoted was written "By Eric at the Gunmart Blog on December 20, 2018"









_________________
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/bump-stock-rule-771259/

The NRA has been atypically muted in its response to the new rule. The gun lobby had previously backed a federal review to see if bump-stocks complied with existing law, writing: "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> can you find an article NOT WRITTEN BY A* GUN MART* - - - - the article you quoted was written "By Eric at the Gunmart Blog on December 20, 2018"
> 
> View attachment 94249
> 
> ...


I am certain that you can find other sources if you look, but I found the one I posted to have credibility.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> No, I made that point for two reasons:
> 1. There are people who like to say Trump has kept his promises. Perhaps a few, but not the big ones that got him elected.
> 2. Many people had overestimated his abilities as a deal maker, an excellent negotiator. Actually he is far from it.
> 
> ...


Again, it's amazing to me that we can see things so differently.
I don't discount your point of view, I just hold a different one.
He's doing a fantastic job, and I've listed a few of those in another unrelated thread.
Numerous campaign promises kept, numerous new deals struck.

Even his tariff trade war bluff is looking to pay off.
He tweeted last week:


> China just announce the there economy is growing much slower than anticipated because of our Trade War with them. They have just suspended U.S. Tariff Hikes. U.S. is doing very well. China wants to make a big and very comprehensive deal. It could happen, and rather soon!


That would be awesome.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

If you go back to the 1980s, there must be a dozen (and probably closer to 20) attachments that allow for what appears to be "automatic fire."

Each of these devices, and that includes the rubber bands, cannot fire the second round until the trigger is allowed to return to its forward position. Without the attachment, that same firearm will go "boom" just once.

Liberals should not be allowed to pass gun legislation simply because they do not understand firearms at all.

Here's a true story. I bought my HBAR at a former sporting goods store that closed twenty years ago. I noticed that the bayonet lug had been sawed off and painted over. I asked why.

Bruce Schengel, the gun sales manager laughed, _"They probably did that to stop all those 'drive by stabbings' you hear so much about..."_


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## John Grit (Jul 5, 2018)

Sasquatch said:


> Saw somewhere, maybe even this site, a theory that maybe Trump is doing this knowing it will be challenged and will lose which will throw it back on Congress to write a new law.


Bump stocks are not guns. To the NRA, this is like talking about knife control. Anyone can make those things at home!

They are nothing more than a sliding but stock with a place to rest your trigger finger to keep it in place, as the trigger comes forward and hits your finger and is pulled automatically. You push the rifle away from your shoulder with your other hand. The recoil pushes it back towards your shoulder, and your forward pressure from your off-hand pushes it forward again. Your finger catches on the trigger when you push it forward. When the gun goes off and recoils, the process starts all over again. With just the proper amount of forward pressure, it is like a full-auto gun. The harder you push forward, the faster it shoots.

Anyone can make a bump stock at home!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

DAMN!

I have talked to a number of people who I like and respect and used to think were Constitutionally Minded Conservative Patriots.

Sadly 90% of those who I casually have mentioned the "bump stock ban" do not care and think that nobody should need a bump stock and it is perfectly fine to ban them. 

SAD.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Slippy said:


> DAMN!
> 
> I have talked to a number of people who I like and respect and used to think were Constitutionally Minded Conservative Patriots.
> 
> ...


I'm not a bit happy about it! I can take or leave the bumpstock I do enjoy a few times a year down on the farm blasting thru a bunch of ammo we safely have fun
and stop before the barrel starts glowing. It's not the bumpstock but it is the Gubmint what the hell is next mags over 10 rounds and after that most ammo except 22's???
It's coming and we'd best not go the sleep!


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

Tragic...Every Bump Stock in America was lost in a boating accident.... https://babylonbee.com/news/tragic-...iJl-ofMjSsHGZtH6sA3VqNHwqVSwQhnRuZL6u6VCq8qsk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

> It's not clear why gun owners were taking their bump stocks boating. ........


Here's why: It's due to those tyrannical deer in the local waterways.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Sasquatch said:


> Saw somewhere, maybe even this site, a theory that maybe Trump is doing this knowing it will be challenged and will lose which will throw it back on Congress to write a new law.


There is probably more to this than you've said. My understanding is that the minute the rule is put into effect there will be filed two federal law suits in the most conservative us district court. and that word is going out to owners of these devices to not jump to hasty actions while this process is being worked


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

> FOIA Seeks ATF Documents after Technical Expert Admits 'Machinegun' Ruling Political


https://www.ammoland.com/2019/02/foia-seeks-atf-documents-after-technical-expert-admits-machinegun-ruling-political/#axzz5fPzqKyeP


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Let's just repeal the National firearms act of 1934 and the firearm owners protection act of 1986, then they can have their law (or regulation) against bump stocks.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Ban takes eff tomorrow 3/26 . I thought several groups (GOA) were fighting this apparently not?
What is next? Mags over 5 rounds, internet ammo sales? Rifle scopes/red dots? Bench rests? Stay tuned!


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Ban takes eff tomorrow 3/26 . I thought several groups (GOA) were fighting this apparently not?
What is next? Mags over 5 rounds, internet ammo sales? Rifle scopes/red dots? Bench rests? Stay tuned!


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Not only has Gorsuch written an opinion against a bump stock ban, but Trump appointed Judge says.....


> Another Trump-Appointed Judge Benchslaps the Trump Administration for Rewriting Federal Gun Laws


https://reason.com/2020/04/01/another-trump-appointed-judge-benchslaps-the-trump-administration-for-rewriting-federal-gun-laws/#comments


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## Alteredstate (Jul 7, 2016)

I bump fired today using my thumb and the pockets on my pants. I have seen fat guys bump fire against their bellies. Are we going to outlaw fat bellies and pockets?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Alteredstate said:


> I bump fired today using my thumb and the pockets on my pants. I have seen fat guys bump fire against their bellies. Are we going to outlaw fat bellies and pockets?


I've bumped with a belt loop on my pants. So let's ban belt loops too.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Don't forget rubber bands.


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