# Walmart is a prepper's friend



## rickkyw1720pf

I hear so much about Walmart, but from a prepper's point of view they have a lot going for them. When ammo became in short supply and some of our suppliers doubled their prices like Cheaper than dirt, they kept prices the same eventually forcing others to bring their prices back down. I walked through Walmart the other day and noticed they were selling federal 308 in 500 rnd boxs, I think it was $375. which isn't that bad of a price and they had a pretty good stock of AR-15 type rifles plus all type of cleaning supplies. They have a lot of camping equipment tent, stoves lanterns, propane tanks both 1lb and 20 lb, flash lights, knives etc. They also have a well stocked medical supplies, and if your Walmart is like mine it has a huge food store that you can buy just about all your food supplies at one place. They sell rice, beans, sugar, flour in bulk, plus powered milk and canned goods. I keep some cash on hand and if I thought SHTF is imminent that will be the first place I will be heading to top off my supplies. Also for the same reasons if the SHTF it will be one of the places to stay away from.


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## Ripon

Wal Mart gets a really ugly wrap from so many, but the fact is before my gardening took hold it was my food outlet and even on my meager budget I was able to accumulate more than I could eat there which is a good thing. I got decent gas "cans" there for $8.99 a while back (yes 5 gallon plastic jugs), use to buy totes there for 3.99 (18 gallon) which made bugging out a snap because the essentials could be stored in them and all I had to do was drop them into the vehicle and be on my way.


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## PrepConsultant

rickkyw1720pf said:


> I hear so much about Walmart, but from a prepper's point of view they have a lot going for them. When ammo became in short supply and some of our suppliers doubled their prices like Cheaper than dirt, they kept prices the same eventually forcing others to bring their prices back down. I walked through Walmart the other day and noticed they were selling federal 308 in 500 rnd boxs, I think it was $375. which isn't that bad of a price and they had a pretty good stock of AR-15 type rifles plus all type of cleaning supplies. They have a lot of camping equipment tent, stoves lanterns, propane tanks both 1lb and 20 lb, flash lights, knives etc. They also have a well stocked medical supplies, and if your Walmart is like mine it has a huge food store that you can buy just about all your food supplies at one place. They sell rice, beans, sugar, flour in bulk, plus powered milk and canned goods. I keep some cash on hand and if I thought SHTF is imminent that will be the first place I will be heading to top off my supplies. Also for the same reasons if the SHTF it will be one of the places to stay away from.


They do have a pretty good selection of medical supplies. Although, the last few months before we came to Montana we noticed that it seems that they werre almost always sold out of them. I guess we weren't the only ones preparing.


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## Inor

You'll never hear me complain about Walmart. Some of the Walmart shoppers, on the other hand...


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## ekim

I get tired of people bashing Wal Mart for selling items from china, like they are the only store that does that. Check the labels on the items in the mom and pop store and see where they get their goods. 

AK's are "cheap" russian,commie guns that go bang every time, but don't think about where the AR got it's basic design from? Both guns have good points and bad, you get what you pay for. The AK hasn't changed much in 60 plus years, can't say that about the AR. How many US soldiers died because their AR's wouldn't fire (to dirty) and the AK did? Cheap russian guns.... Made in the US doesn't mean it the best, but it sure will cost more usually. Buying smart isn't always buying expensive or made in the USA unfortunately.


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## Just Sayin'

Yeah, Walmart gets a bad rap, but you gotta admit that they were one of the first to get ammo back on the shelf, and while not at the old price, it was reasonable for what ammo was going for at the time. I do wish they would get the .22 problem fixed...maybe if we all email them...


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## rickkyw1720pf

Just Sayin' said:


> Yeah, Walmart gets a bad rap, but you gotta admit that they were one of the first to get ammo back on the shelf, and while not at the old price, it was reasonable for what ammo was going for at the time. I do wish they would get the .22 problem fixed...maybe if we all email them...


They are still getting .22 ammo in but there are people waiting on it, and buying all they get in. From what I read the ammo manufactures are making what they have the ability to make but aren't going to invest in more equipment that they are afraid they will be stuck with when the demand goes back down.


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## Just Sayin'

Yeah, can't blame them but it sucks big green weenies anyway!


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## MI.oldguy

We use them frequently,we like them.....they just need to stock items by demand instead of by what some office monkey wants to send them.....like .22lr.


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

The thing about American Made is the money you spend on that item stays in America, your money keeps people working here. The more people working here the better our economy becomes. When you buy china made stuff, your money goes to making the owner(s) wealthier. Then they invest in more china manufacturing which means job loss or no jobs here.

Business owners generate wealth, they can generate wealth for everyone by employing people here. Henry Ford knew that, he paid his employes double said something along the lines of 'someone has to buy my cars.' Anyways it just makes sense to buy American Made, however with that said it doesn't mean 'only' buy American Made if another country makes something better then buy that, if its equal then in my opinion buy American Made.

Wal-Mart is pretty good, they do offer some American Made products and are looking to expand that. Blackhawk is getting American Made manufacturing here too and is also looking to expand that, its about time!


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## scramble4a5

Inor said:


> You'll never hear me complain about Walmart. Some of the Walmart shoppers, on the other hand...


I don't complain about their shoppers. I just wonder where they come from.

I buy a lot of supplies there. I support Wal Mart because they piss off the grocery workers unions so much.


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## dannydefense

Inor said:


> You'll never hear me complain about Walmart. Some of the Walmart shoppers, on the other hand...


Bingo. Nothing wrong with Wal-mart, and good ol Sam was actually pretty pro-gun.

The problem with Wal-mart is the people who now work at most of them. They're stuck in limbo somewhere between given up on life, and wanting to abuse hardcore chemicals.


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## tango

Wal Mart is the best store ever.
Like 'em or not, they have just about everything needed.
When ammo was going up , a lot, in price, Wal Mart kept the line on prices as best they could.


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## PaulS

I'm sorry to dump on this parade but I would rather buy one thing of high quality from a store that appreciates its customers than four of something that cost a third the price from a store that treats you like a thief.

The last time I went to Walmart they asked to see my bag and receipt - I told them "NO" that what was in the bag was mine and they needed a warrant to search me. They tried to detain me and I kept walking. The manager met me as I left the store and asked that I not come back. I said hey, not a problem I told him that I wanted a refund for what I just bought. We went in, he gave me the refund and I haven't been back. 
That was in Seattle and since we moved there is a new Walmart - my wife tells me they don't check bags and receipts but I won't go in that store either.

If they watch someone go through the checkout counter why bother to search them on the way out. They don't search those without bags - those are the ones who shoplift! 

Sorry about that but I don't give up my rights for anyone - and a store that treats me like that I choose not to support.


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## Slippy

PaulS said:


> I'm sorry to dump on this parade but I would rather buy one thing of high quality from a store that appreciates its customers than four of something that cost a third the price from a store that treats you like a thief.
> 
> The last time I went to Walmart they asked to see my bag and receipt - I told them "NO" that what was in the bag was mine and they needed a warrant to search me. They tried to detain me and I kept walking. The manager met me as I left the store and asked that I not come back. I said hey, not a problem I told him that I wanted a refund for what I just bought. We went in, he gave me the refund and I haven't been back.
> That was in Seattle and since we moved there is a new Walmart - my wife tells me they don't check bags and receipts but I won't go in that store either.
> 
> If they watch someone go through the checkout counter why bother to search them on the way out. They don't search those without bags - those are the ones who shoplift!
> 
> Sorry about that but I don't give up my rights for anyone - and a store that treats me like that I choose not to support.


PaulS,

I have come to realize and respect the high level of dedication to the United States Constitution that you have. On one hand you can be direct, to the point in a simple sort of way and unwavering in your principles.

On another, I believe you to be more intelligent than most and often are difficult to follow. After the first pass of some of your posts, I sometimes disagree, but if I concentrate a bit harder on your writings I usually get to the meaning...not every time but most.

To me you are oddly similar to another man named Paul who wrote some pretty good parts of The Bible. Just wanted to say that as well as tell you that I appreciate your views and principled approach.

Sincerely,


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## Deebo

Paul, I MUST also state, that you have my respect and that i feel you are a man of HONOR. I never thought of the "receipt check" at Walmart as a "bad thing", but I can see your point.
Your point is very valid, stating that you "shouldn't have to prove your innocense". In may ways I agree with you, but just THIS morning, at 3:00 am my time, I was in Walmart to purchace soem things and almost bumped into a "shoplifter" as he was "tucking something in his pocket", I assume, he was stealing something, by his reaction. 
It is a broad subject, I know that my Sams Club glances at your reciept, circles somethings, and writes thank you on my receipt on my exit.
I have never taken it as proving my innocence. but I do see your point.
On to the OP post, I pretty much love Walmart, now like some stated, the customers and some of the employees, WOW. 
As far as prepper friendly, I think that almost all my "hands on" purchases come from Walmart.


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## Go2ndAmend

It's just one of those places no one likes to admit liking. They have great prices on a wide variety of goods and gear. Unfortunately, they also are also a free freak show. Most of the people working there also have a large supply of hammer handles in their cranium.


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## inceptor

The problem with buying American made is the lack of manufacturers here. The feds have so many stupid rules and regulations that they are forcing manufacturing overseas. Ya can't really blame the companies for that.


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## retired guard

On another forum a member was approached by a Walmart employee who wanted to search him. Some on that forum were go ahead then sue! If you have given consent for the search your suit is going nowhere. The other thing to consider is the Walmart employee has heard about being sued or maybe just wants to suck up to the boss. His planting something on you during the search is further protection from litigation and shows the boss he's on it. Screws your reputation but sucks to be you.


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## Montana Rancher

I do shop quite a bit at "the" Walmart, they really do have decent prices but I track FOOD prices a LOT and they are NOT the best deal in many cases.

For instance I needed to restock 12 cans of cream of mushroom soup and they are up to $1.58 per can, at Costco I can buy a 8 pack for $.72 cents a can, less than half.

Heck Costco will smoke the britches off of Walmart in every category as long as you want more than 1.

I also don't like their vehicle batteries, pieces of horse droppings that rarely exceed the warranty period, and is they do you are "pro rated" so you have to pay them to get a now less effective battery, not a good deal.

I did buy a pair of sweat pants there (my preferred lounge attire at the ranch) and they were a really good deal. 

But overall I get my stuff at Costco, you need to buy several can's/pounds/units at a time but the economy pays.


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## PaulS

Slippy and Deebo,

Wow. I am just a man so don't put me on any pedestal. I am nothing like the apostle - and I have failings like any man. My rights are a real hot button for me and because of that I have studied the constitution and its supporting documents. I embarrass my wife often (in a lot of ways) but it is part of why she loves me. 

Anyway, I thank you for your words of support but don't expect more than I am. I am just a man with my own convictions and no requirement for others to share in them. 

So, thanks for the vote of respect and bear in mind that respect most of the folks I have met here too. We are all very special people and we are all very different - that's what makes us great folks to be around.


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## Deebo

My fiance makes Walmart price match. My fiance has Three or four huge totes of school supplies, and about 20 or 30 boxes of notebooks, each item being price matched to sales, and costing between .01 and .10 each. But, she also worked as security, so she knew when to do the pricematches frm other employees and customers.


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## Deebo

Well spoken Paul.


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## PaulS

Deebo said:


> Well spoken Paul.


Thanks Deebo. It caught me way off guard and it made want to be careful how I post and that would take all the fun out of it.


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## Slippy

PaulS said:


> Slippy and Deebo,
> 
> Wow. I am just a man so don't put me on any pedestal. I am nothing like the apostle - and I have failings like any man. My rights are a real hot button for me and because of that I have studied the constitution and its supporting documents. I embarrass my wife often (in a lot of ways) but it is part of why she loves me.
> 
> Anyway, I thank you for your words of support but don't expect more than I am. I am just a man with my own convictions and no requirement for others to share in them.
> 
> So, thanks for the vote of respect and bear in mind that respect most of the folks I have met here too. We are all very special people and we are all very different - that's what makes us great folks to be around.


I've also learned plenty from the special people on this forum, and I thank everyone for their info and knowledge. I hope I've added a bit as well. Be well.


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## LunaticFringeInc

I really so hate shopping that place...nothing is rarely on the shelf in the right place with the right price tag making every purchase an adventure. But I will admit they have a lot of useful stuff and usually have it at the cheapest prices around town and will match someone elses price in a heart beat. My nephew as an employee has a discount card so getting 10% more off except for food is always nice too. Besides I workj nice and its the only place open late at night where I can peruse the store looking for things I can use that would be great to have. Now often times they don't have a lot of stuff I am looking for and for those things where I want something specific, I have to patronize the other stores for those items.


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## pheniox17

get use to looking in clearance sections, most of the time you find a nice buy with the only issue of damaged packaging (no Wal-Mart here, but we have large chains that are similar, slightly)


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## Cheesewiz

Walmart is based and founded in Bentonville ,AR not China . Very many of the goods are manufactured in China, Walmart dictates the price of goods sold in their stores .....they make the bulk of their margin on Gross product sales of said product . Almost all of the ammo is produced in USA with a few exceptions , then Mobil. One, Stanley tools, are made in the US and so on . Almost all goods in every store has products manufactured over seas .

It cracks me up when I read it's all made in China and all the profit goes there . Walmart pays squat for most of that stuff, the margin is made HERE IN THE USA . 

My wife has been in the retail business for over 20 years , Walmart being a big customer ,she knows this very well . If you have a product and want to make money on said product you make a trip to Bentonville and try your best to get it in their stores ...it's just simple math . 

If you don't like Walmart go elsewhere , me if they have it for less, the same exact thing , sorry it's going to get my money . No I don't like everything there, but some things it's just a price point .


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## tango

Some think that only Wal Mart sells China goods, --- shop Target, K mart, Sears, etc. 
Tell me what you find---
Wal Mart and other stores sell at the price point that consumers want to spend, just like the rest


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## paraquack

I don't think we will see any changes in where stores (in general) get their merchandise from (China, etc.) People are no longer willing to pay double the price to buy American. Most people are now used to buying cheap stuff.


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## PaulS

You can find quality goods anywhere you shop. Walmart is likely the place you can get the lowest price on what quality merchandise they have. I don't have a problem with the store, their merchandise or the prices. I do have a problem with them wanting to check my purchase as I walk from the checkout counter to the door. When I leave the checkout counter that stuff is mine and they have no power to search my stuff.

If we let a store do this to us it is no wonder that the TSA and police think they can do it. I refuse to give up my rights for any reason.


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## Mish

Paul, have you been in a Best Buy lately? Those guys are ready to jump you at the door if you try to get by them with a bag. They want to check your receipt before you leave the store. I've never really had a problem with Wal Mart that way. I do have a problem with the way Wal Mart gets it's low prices! Let's take their low prices on roses as an example. Wal Mart is buying their roses from a third world country that has no regulations on pesticides. The beautiful roses that we buy at a cheap price are coming at the cost of women's fertility. The pesticides are draining into the water and causing all kinds of health problems for the local folks! But hey, those roses sure are pretty and cheap!!


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## PaulS

There isn't a "Best Buy" within at least 60 miles of me..... There is a WalMart within ten miles. I would rather spend my money at a store that doesn't trample my rights than at one that does.

The avatar is a nice change.... it's a tease, but a nice change.


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## Meangreen

Another thing I don't like about walmart other than the typical "Walmart People" you find there is that they cut costs by having the manufactures not do quality control.


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## jimb1972

The wanting to search people must be a local thing, no one has ever asked to look in my bag or checked my receipt. I made the mistake of going to Walmart on Dec 4th, apparently that was the day the food stamps came (or EBT card was reloaded now) Stood in line behind a lot of people with much more expensive foods in their carts than I had, and not one non-food item to be seen.


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## Notsoyoung

PaulS said:


> I'm sorry to dump on this parade but I would rather buy one thing of high quality from a store that appreciates its customers than four of something that cost a third the price from a store that treats you like a thief.
> 
> The last time I went to Walmart they asked to see my bag and receipt - I told them "NO" that what was in the bag was mine and they needed a warrant to search me. They tried to detain me and I kept walking. The manager met me as I left the store and asked that I not come back. I said hey, not a problem I told him that I wanted a refund for what I just bought. We went in, he gave me the refund and I haven't been back.
> That was in Seattle and since we moved there is a new Walmart - my wife tells me they don't check bags and receipts but I won't go in that store either.
> 
> If they watch someone go through the checkout counter why bother to search them on the way out. They don't search those without bags - those are the ones who shoplift!
> 
> Sorry about that but I don't give up my rights for anyone - and a store that treats me like that I choose not to support.


If you take a bag into a business they have the right to inspect what's in it. Your Constitutional Rights in regards to a search warrant is in reference to the government, not a private business. You go into the business carrying a bag, expect someone to ask what's in it, and they are not stepping on your Constitutional rights doing so. If anyone would stop and think about shoplifters they would understand why a store would want to. You don't like it? DON'T GO THERE. Frankly if I was a business owner and someone had acted the way you did, I too would tell them never to come back. Most times a little common sense goes a long way.


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## tango

Been to a Sam's lately?
They scan every receipt and cart leaving the store.
None of the Wal marts in my area ask to check a bag when leaving.

Your area must have a shoplifting/theft problem.
Can't blame the store for trying to protect itself.


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## Mish

Shopping at WalMart is like selling your soul to the devil...lol The things that, that company does to get it's prices is criminal.


<Disclaimer> I bought some socks there on Saturday...I'm a hypocrite


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## jimb1972

Mish said:


> Shopping at WalMart is like selling your soul to the devil...lol The things that, that company does to get it's prices is criminal.
> 
> 
> <Disclaimer> I bought some socks there on Saturday...I'm a hypocrite


I don't know, from what I have seen they do a community service by hiring people who would be unemployable by most standards.


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## Arizona Infidel

PaulS. You have made some great posts in this thread. Food for thought. 
We do a lot of shopping at our local WalMart. Like anywhere else walmart has run the local competitors out of business. ( not for groceries, but for the other general merchandise) it's just the way of the world right now. Remember, Wal mart started out as just another General Store in Arkansas. There have been others. Coast to Coast was a chain general store also. So I don't have a problem with them in that respect. I do disagree with their corporate actions after the old man died. They took pride in American made when he was around, after he was gone it focused on the price only. But what you gonna do? Companies don't manufacture walmart only products overseas. They manufacture all their products overseas. So it doesn't matter what store you go to for that coffee maker, it's still made overseas.
Now, back to PaulS's point. I never thought about it before, but he is right. I have had my bags checked here and there. I never thought about it. 
Never again will I allow any store employee to rummage through my personal belongings.


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## PaulS

Notsoyoung said:


> If you take a bag into a business they have the right to inspect what's in it. Your Constitutional Rights in regards to a search warrant is in reference to the government, not a private business. You go into the business carrying a bag, expect someone to ask what's in it, and they are not stepping on your Constitutional rights doing so. If anyone would stop and think about shoplifters they would understand why a store would want to. You don't like it? DON'T GO THERE. Frankly if I was a business owner and someone had acted the way you did, I too would tell them never to come back. Most times a little common sense goes a long way.


I did not carry a bag into the Walmart store, I bought something and they put it in a bag when I paid for it. No one, not even I, have the "right" to search you or your possessions anywhere in public access property. If the public has free and open access - like a store - my rights are in full effect. Where I live i can walk into a business that has a "no guns" sign with my gun on because my rights are not legally diminished just because they have a sign in the window. Frankly if you ran a business where you searched (or tried to search) every patron then I would think that you would not be in business for long and I would not permit the search the first time and I would not be back.

God gave me my rights - if you have the power to take them away you must be very powerful.


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## Cheesewiz

The bag check is for Loss prevention . That store has a issue with shrinkage ( Shoplifting ) . Not all the Walmarts do this . My local does it on busy weekends sometimes . I always just hold my receipt in my hand and they very seldom even look at it or me . Now go to another part of town and they are checking or at least looking at your cart or bag . The loss, from stealing causes all of us to pay more . In some stores it's unbelievable what walks out the door . One of the top items taken are razor blades ! Geeze . They are on a lock rack in some stores .


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## slewfoot

If I was a business owner and you were still inside my store on my property and you refused to let me look in your bag, Don't ever bother coming back, simple as that. Now if you are out side my place of business that's a whole different story.
We will drive out of our way to not go to the Wal-Mart in our area for any reason. The reasons are endless but a few instances, along with other grocery's we bought a loaf of sliced bread when we got home and went to make a sandwich the bread was moldy. Bought a carton of strawberry's , got home opened them to was and clean most in the middle was rotten. Was walking down the frozen isle when a man took out a carton of some kind of frozen ice-cream balls, opened it and took a few out and when he went to replace it he dropped it, about that time an employee came around the corner picked up the spilled ones and put them back in the carton and placed it back in the freezer. Wal- mart not on my life.

The above instances were on different trips.


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## slewfoot

this is a perfect example.
Why they should be able to check.













. 
.







WBBH-TV 

updated 36 minutes ago 
Print 
Font: 





Deputies arrested a Tampa man on Saturday after he was found to have allegedly taken almost $1,000 worth of flash drives and other merchandise from the Punta Gorda Walmart Super Center. 

Shortly after 10 a.m. on December 4, the sheriff's office received a call from the Walmart, located at 5001 Taylor Road in Punta Gorda, that one of their asset protection employees was chasing a man who had taken items from the store without paying for them.

When the deputy arrived in the area, he saw the employee chasing Osmel Gonzalez-Gutierrez, 55, of 3309 Columbus Drive in Tampa, through the parking lot of the Pilot Gas Station on Jones Loop Road.

When confronted by the deputy, Gonzalez-Gutierrez stopped and was placed under arrest. The Walmart employee told the deputy he had witnessed Gonzalez-Gutierrez put several boxes of Gillette razor cartridges and some other items in a shopping cart.

While pushing the cart through the store, he watched as Gonzalez-Gutierrez hid the items under his shirt and jacket.

When deputies searched Gonzalez-Gutierrez, they found the razor cartridges, two bottles of Advil and 18 packages of San Disk flash drives and USB cards. The total value of the merchandise taken was $966.66.

Gonzalez-Gutierrez was charged with Retail Grand Theft and Resisting a Merchant. He was released on a total $15,000 bond.


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## slewfoot

Most business's down here have signs in the windows stating that they have the right to search all bags.


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## Notsoyoung

Good grief. Any business has the right to make sure that what you have in your bag is what you paid for. It is NOT a violation of your Constitutional nor God Given Rights. Why do they check what's in the bag against your receipt. Why would they do that? Because Wlamarts are large stores with multiple check out lanes, it's hard to keep an eye on every customer, and there has been a rash of people going into the store carrying an empty Walmart bag in their pockets, filling it merchandise,, then walking out without paying. Once again, none of your "rights" are violated when they want to see what's in the bag and your receipt.


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## PaulS

Their signs have no force of law. It is still unlawful search. It doesn't matter whether you are in the store or not. Your rights supersede their desire to stop shoplifters. (well MINE do)

When they can see you have gone through the checkout and have not witnessed you shoplifting they have no probable cause for a search. The fact that they search everyone makes no difference under the law.

It would be the same thing, legally, to have someone - even a cop - come up to you in a park or a restaurant and search you. Without a warrant I will refuse any search. When they have grounds to search me they can arrest me and search but until then my rights are in full effect. If they arrest me and find nothing I can make an attempt at suing for unlawful arrest, defamation of character and violation of my rights by searching me. At the very least I can humiliate them to the same extent that they humiliated me.

And yes, I stay clear of Walmart stores because I will not allow them to search me.


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## wesley762

Notsoyoung said:


> Good grief. Any business has the right to make sure that what you have in your bag is what you paid for. It is NOT a violation of your Constitutional nor God Given Rights. Why do they check what's in the bag against your receipt. Why would they do that? Because Wlamarts are large stores with multiple check out lanes, it's hard to keep an eye on every customer, and there has been a rash of people going into the store carrying an empty Walmart bag in their pockets, filling it merchandise,, then walking out without paying. Once again, none of your "rights" are violated when they want to see what's in the bag and your receipt.


This..... plain and simple.


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## PaulS

The views expressed that it is alright is exactly why we are watching our right erode away in front of us.

You are free to allow them to search you as often as you like. I will not go there. I do not fly commercial flights for the same reason - it is an unlawful search and I don't care how used to it you get it is unlawful.


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## dannydefense

I think the point isn't whether or not they have the right under the law, or under the constitution. The point is it's the exact same thing as traffic light cameras. It's a lazy way to do their job that implies everyone is a thief/guilty until proven innocent. It's offensive to be treated as such. Of course it's their right, running a private business. Of course if they had a valid suspicion that you were a shoplifter and you refused you could and should be barred from ever re-entering. However when I managed a retail store, I guess it's just me, but I would have felt like a huge asshole asking every customer on their way out if they could please prove to me they hadn't stolen anything.

I'm sure those of you who are okay with Wal-mart doing this are just fine with the police randomly checking your ID and maybe searching your vehicle... just to make sure of course, I mean you have nothing to hide right? It's not that big of a deal. They're just doing their job.


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## slewfoot

PaulS said:


> Their signs have no force of law. It is still unlawful search. It doesn't matter whether you are in the store or not. Your rights supersede their desire to stop shoplifters. (well MINE do)
> 
> When they can see you have gone through the checkout and have not witnessed you shoplifting they have no probable cause for a search. The fact that they search everyone makes no difference under the law.
> 
> It would be the same thing, legally, to have someone - even a cop - come up to you in a park or a restaurant and search you. Without a warrant I will refuse any search. When they have grounds to search me they can arrest me and search but until then my rights are in full effect. If they arrest me and find nothing I can make an attempt at suing for unlawful arrest, defamation of character and violation of my rights by searching me. At the very least I can humiliate them to the same extent that they humiliated me.
> 
> And yes, I stay clear of Walmart stores because I will not allow them to search me.


You fail to understand that you are on there private property, They have the absolute right to search your bags. That my friend is their lawful right and if push came to shove they can have you arrested.
We are not talking about a park or public place. Their store is their private property and you are allowed there by their discretion.


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## PaulS

Actually checking paying customers hasn't stopped shoplifting at all. They don't stop folks who don't go through the check-out lanes and unless you have a store bag they don't even stop you. The ones that by-pass the checkout counters and aren't carrying a bag are the ones who steel from the store. They only check you if you have a receipt. How does that stop the shoplifters?

It's just like TSA at the airports. They haven't prevented a single terrorist from getting on a plane. Since they adopted the search at the airports people on the planes have stopped three terrorists that got through the unlawful search at the security (oh I mean safety) checkpoint. 

OK, all you little sheeple line up so we can find the black sheep among you. We can't just search the black sheep we have to search you all. Oh, of course ms. Muslum youcan go right through because you can't be searched.

If the process wasn't so horrible it might be funny.


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## wesley762

PaulS said:


> Actually checking paying customers hasn't stopped shoplifting at all. They don't stop folks who don't go through the check-out lanes and unless you have a store bag they don't even stop you. The ones that by-pass the checkout counters and aren't carrying a bag are the ones who steel from the store. They only check you if you have a receipt. How does that stop the shoplifters?
> .


I have to disagree with you on this, I don't think you have ever worked retail. I have many years ago, We stopped plenty of people just trying to walk out of the store without paying for product even though they pruchased something, the biggest problem with that is you would have cashers ring a 2 dollar item up and have there buddy walk out with hundreds of dollars in product. You could not bring a personal bag to work without them searching it.


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## PaulS

I owned two businesses, one was retail goods and the other (2 others) was a shop. The shop was aftermarket automotive carburetion, distributors and transmissions and parts.


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## Arizona Infidel

slewfoot said:


> if push came to shove they can have you arrested.
> .


Yes. If they suspect me of committing a crime that is the proper channel to take. That is the only Chanel they have to take. The rest of your post is horsecrap.


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## Notsoyoung

PaulS said:


> Actually checking paying customers hasn't stopped shoplifting at all. They don't stop folks who don't go through the check-out lanes and unless you have a store bag they don't even stop you. The ones that by-pass the checkout counters and aren't carrying a bag are the ones who steel from the store. They only check you if you have a receipt. How does that stop the shoplifters?
> 
> It's just like TSA at the airports. They haven't prevented a single terrorist from getting on a plane. Since they adopted the search at the airports people on the planes have stopped three terrorists that got through the unlawful search at the security (oh I mean safety) checkpoint.
> 
> OK, all you little sheeple line up so we can find the black sheep among you. We can't just search the black sheep we have to search you all. Oh, of course ms. Muslum youcan go right through because you can't be searched.
> 
> If the process wasn't so horrible it might be funny.


This is ludicrous. It's PRIVATE property. They have the right to search your bags. Walmart isn't the only large store that do it, and more will start to do so. Accepting that someone will check your bag doesn't make anyone a "sheeple". It is not intrusive, it doesn't violate anyone's rights, and frankly if I saw anyone arguing about it the first thing that would come to my mind is that they are now, have in the past, or are planning in the future to steal from the store. Why not argue that them having concealed cameras watching customers violates your Right to privacy? It doesn't either.


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## Arizona Infidel

Notsoyoung said:


> This is ludicrous. It's PRIVATE property. They have the right to search your bags. Walmart isn't the only large store that do it, and more will start to do so. Accepting that someone will check your bag doesn't make anyone a "sheeple". It is not intrusive, it doesn't violate anyone's rights, and frankly if I saw anyone arguing about it the first thing that would come to my mind is that they are now, have in the past, or are planning in the future to steal from the store. Why not argue that them having concealed cameras watching customers violates your Right to privacy? It doesn't either.


 no, your ATTITUDE is ludicrous.


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## Notsoyoung

What about my "ATTITUDE" is ludicrous? The it's private property and they have the right to check your bag on the way out of the door? That you are NOT a "sheeple" if you don't have a problem with them checking to make sure that you aren't a shoplifter? That the TSA, a government organization has nothing to do with Walmart? Speaking of which, how safe would you feel if you regularly take a specific flight that EVERYONE knows the TSA DOESN'T check ANYONE before they board? If you don't like it so refuse to go to Walmart anymore, fine, just don't try to make it sound like it is some kind of standing up for Constitutional or God Given rights. I for one am tired of paying approximately 15% more for products from places from like Walmart because of low life scumbag shoplifters. As for them not ever catching someone by doing it, WRONG. I saw it happen this past weekend. The security people were taking some lady to the back office as I was walking in. She tried to walk out with stuff in a Walmart shopping bag without a receipt, and the security people told her they watched as she pulled and empty bag out of her purse and put stuff in it and then tried to walk out the store.


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## Arizona Infidel

Notsoyoung said:


> What about my "ATTITUDE" is ludicrous? The it's private property and they have the right to check your bag on the way out of the door? That you are NOT a "sheeple" if you don't have a problem with them checking to make sure that you aren't a shoplifter? That the TSA, a government organization has nothing to do with Walmart? Speaking of which, how safe would you feel if you regularly take a specific flight that EVERYONE knows the TSA DOESN'T check ANYONE before they board? If you don't like it so refuse to go to Walmart anymore, fine, just don't try to make it sound like it is some kind of standing up for Constitutional or God Given rights. I for one am tired of paying approximately 15% more for products from places from like Walmart because of low life scumbag shoplifters. As for them not ever catching someone by doing it, WRONG. I saw it happen this past weekend. The security people were taking some lady to the back office as I was walking in. She tried to walk out with stuff in a Walmart shopping bag without a receipt, and the security people told her they watched as she pulled and empty bag out of her purse and put stuff in it and then tried to walk out the store.


I don't care what you saw. Security's job is to observe and report. They do NOT have police powers and you CAN NOT show me anywhere that you have a right to violate someone else's rights.


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## PaulS

It is public access private property. You can no more lawfully search someone on private property than I could search you lawfully in my home. Our rights are not dependent on the location or who is trying to circumvent them. On private property - even public access private property you can ask a person to leave but you cannot lawfully search them. If your rights don't apply on private property then when you visit me I can tell you what to think, limit what you can say, tell you what faith you must practice, take away your right to defend yourself, and search your person and effects at my whim? 

the answer is no, I can ask you to leave but the rest is unlawful.

That is not what "rights" are. With the majority of the population believing the way you do is why we are losing our rights.


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## Cheesewiz

*I hate to burst a bubble here but this is the law here...check your own state*

Nevada Shoplifting Laws
NRS 597.850 Shoplifting: Merchant may request person on premises to keep merchandise in full view; detention of suspect; immunity of merchant from liability; display of notice.

1. As used in this section and in NRS 597.860 and 597.870:

(a) "Merchandise" means any personal property, capable of manual delivery, displayed, held or offered for sale by a merchant.

(b) "Merchant" means an owner or operator, and the agent, consignee, employee, lessee, or officer of an owner or operator, of any merchant's premises.

(c) "Premises" means any establishment or part thereof wherein merchandise is displayed, held or offered for sale.

2. Any merchant may request any person on his premises to place or keep in full view any merchandise the person may have removed, or which the merchant has reason to believe he may have removed, from its place of display or elsewhere, whether for examination, purchase or for any other purpose. No merchant is criminally or civilly liable on account of having made such a request.

3. Any merchant who has reason to believe that merchandise has been wrongfully taken by a person and that he can recover the merchandise by taking the person into custody and detaining him may, for the purpose of attempting to effect such recovery or for the purpose of informing a peace officer of the circumstances of such detention, take the person into custody and detain him, on the premises, in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable length of time. A merchant is presumed to have reason to believe that merchandise has been wrongfully taken by a person and that he can recover the merchandise by taking the person into custody and detaining him if the merchant observed the person concealing merchandise while on the premises. Such taking into custody and detention by a merchant does not render the merchant criminally or civilly liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, slander or unlawful detention unless the taking into custody and detention are unreasonable under all the circumstances.

4. No merchant is entitled to the immunity from liability provided for in this section unless there is displayed in a conspicuous place on his premises a notice in boldface type clearly legible and in substantially the following form:

Any merchant or his agent who has reason to believe that merchandise has been wrongfully taken by a person may detain such person on the premises of the merchant for the purpose of recovering the property or notifying a peace officer. An adult or the parents or legal guardian of a minor, who steals merchandise is civilly liable for its value and additional damages. NRS 597.850, 597.860 and 597.870.

NRS 597.860 Shoplifting: Civil liability of adult who steals merchandise from or damages property on merchant's premises.

1. An adult who steals merchandise from, or damages property on, a merchant's premises is civilly liable for the retail value of the merchandise or the fair market value of the other property, plus damages of not less than $100 nor more than $250, costs of suit and reasonable attorney's fees. An action may be brought even if there has been no criminal conviction for the theft or damage.

2. An action under this section may be brought as a small claim in a justice's court if the total amount sought does not exceed the statutory limit for such a claim.

NRS 597.870 Shoplifting: Civil liability of parent or guardian of minor who steals merchandise from or damages property on merchant's premises.

1. The parent or legal guardian, as the case may be, of a minor who steals merchandise from, or damages property on, a merchant's premises is civilly liable for:

(a) The retail value of the merchandise; and

(b) The fair market value of the damaged property, plus damages of not less than $100 nor more than $250, costs of suit and reasonable attorney's fees. An action may be brought even if there has been no criminal conviction for the theft or damage. Recovery under this section may be had in addition to, and is not limited by, any other provision of law which limits the liability of a parent or legal guardian for the tortious conduct of a minor.

2. An action under this section may be brought as a small claim in a justice's court if the total amount sought does not exceed the statutory limit for such a claim.


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## Cheesewiz

*Check your state laws . Here is a link*

Shoplifting Laws : Shoplifting Laws by State


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## pheniox17

he you can refuse, but it's not worth it.. they are not allowed to put their hands on your property, and for the sake of a few seconds it's not worth the drama, solved it by not carrying bags...


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## pheniox17

here not he, can't be bothered editing


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## PaulS

If the merchant has reason to believe that goods have been taken.......

I went into the store with nothing - no bags - nothing. I picked up the item(s) and purchased them. What would give the guy standing at the door reason to believe that I stole something? He didn't see me from the time I entered the store until I went through the checkout lane to buy the stuff and it was placed in the bag by a store employee who took my money in trade for the product. 

There is no reasonable cause to check my bags. There is no reason to think I took anything wrongfully. Nowhere in the law of Nevada does it say the store employee has any power to search me. He can detain me only if he has reason to believe that I took something I didn't pay for. There has to be a reasonable belief..... probable cause.... a hunch isn't good enough and he still can't search me. Read your own post!

He can require me to hold in open view his products prior to a purchase - after that it is my stuff.


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## Deebo

First of all, PAULS, I DID NOT authorize the use of my picture, so I will need my standard one half of one half of a percent, on any money you may have made using my picture as your avatar.
No, I just got back Paul, and I wanted to jump back into this thread.
Yes, I agree on both fronts, I, after careful thought, dont "like" that I get my purchases looked at, but after having worked at a home depot, where an employee was caught "pushing out a load of unpaid lumber", and the way things are now a days, I have just accepted the fact that some stores "check you" on the way out. I dont like it, I guess, I have condoned it. 
Paul, some people are thinking of "carry in bags" like backpacks and other store bags. Different thread all together, I also saw "aluminum foil" lined shopping bags to thwart the tag detectors.
Almost all the stores around here, ask you to "leave your backpack" or whatever, which also opens up a huge can of worms..What if someone puts something in your bag?


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## Deebo

One more little tidbit, At the walmart my fiance worked at, you werent considered shoplifting until you tried to leave without paying for something. Many times people would walk towards the door, and if they saw someone following them, they would throw down the "almost stolen" peice.
One more tidbit, when the walmart personell would call APD and catch someone, the police would cuff them, then walk them around the store for awhile while they waited for "so and so" to come make a report.


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## PaulS

Deebo, I understand that most people just line up to have their bags checked against the receipt. It is a natural thing for sheeple to do. They do the same thing at the airports and the bus depots around the country. If TSA set up a "safety checkpoint" in front of an office building the sheeple would line up to be searched just like at the airport. Sheeple are so accustomed to yielding their God given (natural) rights that they are willing to give them all up. It is destroying this country.

I do not and will not belong to that group. I will not relinquish any of my rights and someone will have to kill me to get me to give up my rights. I would rather die free than live as a slave.


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## Arizona Infidel

So many just don't get it.


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## PaulS

Freedom of choice. The other God given right.


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

WalMart looses around 3 billion a year to shoplifters. Being in retail shoplifting is the number 1 loss. Its easy for people to bring in there own walmart bags and put items in, or to toss items in the bags as they place them in their carts. People at walmart don't know you, they don't owe you anything, your choosing to shop there. They have rules(notices) just like all other businesses. Notify police after items have been shoplifted and caught on camera doesn't always work. Cops most likely wont even pursue it.

By your logic lets say as an example, if a "garden gnome" goes missing from your yard, and you see an unusual pedestrian walking down the road lugging something. None of your neighbors seen it happen, you didn't see it happen so you have no right to even drive by and check them.


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## PaulS

I certainly couldn't search or detain him. A citizen can't make a citizens arrest unless a felony has been witnessed by him/her. If you do you can be sued for false arrest. You can be charged with 3rd degree kidnapping if you detain someone against their will. I could drive by and see if there was some way to recognize my garden gnome but I really wouldn't care - he is always drunk and chasing the fairies.  

No, even if he had a garden gnome in his arms, unless I could prove it was my drunken gnome I couldn't do anything. Even if I could prove it was mine my recourse it to call the cops and let them handle it. I only have recourse if he is on my property. In Washington there is a gray area in the law that would allow me to detain him for the police on charges of criminal trespass and theft. The criminal trespass is a felony. Because it is a felony I have the option of using deadly force to stop the commission of a felony - but only on my property or in my home. Even then if the cop didn't believe that this frail old man was in fear for his life I could be hauled off to jail on a manslaughter charge. Like I said a gray area..... don't like gray areas. If my wife shot and killed him there wouldn't be any charges in 99.9% of the cases.

The reality of it is that the county cops would look at the dead guy and say, "were ya scared?" and my answer should be, "yes sir, scared to death." End of story. The county cops know me and we get along pretty well. However I wouldn't allow them to bend the law for me any more than I would let them get away with not giving me a ticket if I was speeding. I appreciate good cops and I want them honest - even if it means I have to pay a ticket or spend the night in jail. We are OK because we both understand the law is there for everyone and not just a few privileged people.


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## pheniox17

wow this topic has gone on a massive tangent....


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## PaulS

It has been a good discussion. Nobody called anyone names and we are all still friends.
Thank you for the discussion!


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## pheniox17

PaulS said:


> It has been a good discussion. Nobody called anyone names and we are all still friends.
> Thank you for the discussion!


as I said before surprisingly a majority act there age here


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

LiveLeak.com - Kids running wild in a store


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

PaulS said:


> I only have recourse if he is on my property.


Why doesn't walmart have the same property rights? why can't they search someones bags just to ensure something wasn't stolen, to make sure every item was paid for? They aren't doing it to stomp on rights, its just to make sure items they paid for(their property) isn't walking out in a bag.

3 billion a year of wealth is stolen... what else can that much money go towards?(of course after the gov gets half :???: ) and to think this happens to other retailers. Think about the stores that could be opened, more jobs that could be created... Its not just stolen from retailers, wealth is potentially being stolen from society.


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## Deebo

DAMN...Good video, so many things wrong, I dont know if i would have gotten involved, and I damned sure wouldn't put my hands on a mother, unless she was just out and out beating a child, but correcting a child is family bussiness, and you dont just jump into family bussiness.
As a security guard, you learn some "basic rules of fights"
two men fighting can usually be stopped. Two women fighting can usually be stopped. A man fighting a woman, sometimes both will turn on you. 
Anyway, that "could have been my son" wont be heard of by our potus, but honestly, if it were my son, I would have grabbed him by his ear, twisted it all the way out the door, where I would severly punish him.


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## PaulS

bhtacticaloutdoors said:


> Why doesn't walmart have the same property rights? why can't they search someones bags just to ensure something wasn't stolen, to make sure every item was paid for? They aren't doing it to stomp on rights, its just to make sure items they paid for(their property) isn't walking out in a bag.
> 
> 3 billion a year of wealth is stolen... what else can that much money go towards?(of course after the gov gets half :???: ) and to think this happens to other retailers. Think about the stores that could be opened, more jobs that could be created... Its not just stolen from retailers, wealth is potentially being stolen from society.


Walmart has opened their private property to the general public. I am not trespassing no law has been broken and I have certainly not committed a felony. I understand the losses - maybe more than you - but they have no legal or lawful grounds to search me unless they see me stealing or see suspect behavior that they can verbalize as justification for detaining me. They can ask me to leave - which is what I was doing but the have no lawful reason to search anyone - even if they know he stole something they can only hold him for the police and let them place the suspect under arrest. At that point the police can search, and they better find something or the store is in big trouble.


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

PaulS said:


> Walmart has opened their private property to the general public. I am not trespassing no law has been broken and I have certainly not committed a felony. I understand the losses - maybe more than you - but they have no legal or lawful grounds to search me unless they see me stealing or see suspect behavior that they can verbalize as justification for detaining me. They can ask me to leave - which is what I was doing but the have no lawful reason to search anyone - even if they know he stole something they can only hold him for the police and let them place the suspect under arrest. At that point the police can search, and they better find something or the store is in big trouble.


your making no sense, so walmart can issue a search warrant to police but have no authority to ensure their property isn't walking out the door?

Walmart doesn't know you, anyone can be a potential thief. Your choosing to go into their property. Regardless of it being 'open to the public' Their property rules still apply, and if you violate the rules it can be construed as trespassing.

You failed to follow their notice(or respond to their notice) and you continued to shop and pay for items, a legal term called 'latches' took effect. By your silence you accepted their notice on their property. So you then agreed for your bags to be checked before you leave the store.


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## PaulS

You are completely off base. A sign in a window or door has no legal strength in a public access space. The property is open to the general public. The rules are different. The store can't issue a search warrant - that has to come from a judge. The store personnel can't search because they have no authority. The state has given them power to detain a person they have reasonable cause to believe has shoplifted until police get there. At that point the police place you under arrest and have cause to search for weapons. If in that search they fine stolen merchandise they can arrest you for shoplifting. If they don't find anything then the store personnel apologize and everything has a new beginning. The ball is now in your court as to what you want to do about the situation. You can go public with the matter and embarrass the store, contact the regional manager and have the bum fired or take civil action to collect damages. You could also be gracious and accept the store's apology and walk away.

There is nothing in the law that gives them power over your fourth amendment rights. And there is no lawful way to suspend your rights under any condition.


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

You don't understand Notices. Latches is a legal term that takes effect. If you not respond to the notice its assumed that you agree to it so long as you're on their property. once you pay without saying a thing latches takes effect. At that point they can inspect what you have in their basket as your leaving the store. Its the same if you post notices on your property.

Now if they pat you down and strip search you that's violating rights. If they detain you because you refused to be patted down and strip searched that's a violation of rights. They have no right to accuse you of steeling items putting them on your person without some sort of evidence. They have every right to make sure their property isn't leaving the store in their basket.


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## dannydefense

bhtacticaloutdoors said:


> By your logic lets say as an example, if a "garden gnome" goes missing from your yard, and you see an unusual pedestrian walking down the road lugging something. None of your neighbors seen it happen, you didn't see it happen so you have no right to even drive by and check them.


Fail.

I'm going to keep this response super simple, because everyone keeps using arguments that don't apply to what the other person said.

Wal-mart is searching _everyone_. Not just the person with the garden gnome looking bulge.


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## Mish

I don't know what all the fuss is about...I like it when I get searched. :roll:


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## pheniox17

Mish said:


> I don't know what all the fuss is about...I like it when I get searched. :roll:


you will.like it more if you were searched, wile spoken to with a Aussie accent


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## Slippy

bhtacticaloutdoors said:


> LiveLeak.com - Kids running wild in a store


BH
What a video, that is all too common! Present and future voters.


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## slewfoot

Arizona Infidel said:


> Yes. If they suspect me of committing a crime that is the proper channel to take. That is the only Chanel they have to take. The rest of your post is horsecrap.


Well my friend here is the Florida law. I ask my neighbor who is retiring after 30 years in law enforcement and works for the county sheriffs Dept. he said that if a merchant calls them and a person is refusing to have there bags checked they will give them a choice, ether we look in them here or I will arrest you for refusal to obey and take you down to the substation and look in the bags.

3)(a) A law enforcement officer, a merchant, a farmer, or a transit agency's employee or agent, who has probable cause to believe that a retail theft, farm theft, a transit fare evasion, or trespass, or unlawful use or attempted use of any antishoplifting or inventory control device countermeasure, has been committed by a person and, in the case of retail or farm theft, that the property can be recovered by taking the offender into custody may, for the purpose of attempting to effect such recovery or for prosecution, take the offender into custody and detain the offender in a reasonable manner for a reasonable length of time. In the case of a farmer, taking into custody shall be effectuated only on property owned or leased by the farmer. In the event the merchant, merchant's employee, farmer, or a transit agency's employee or agent takes the person into custody, a law enforcement officer shall be called to the scene immediately after the person has been taken into custody.

Key words here are probable cause.


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

dannydefense said:


> Fail.
> 
> I'm going to keep this response super simple, because everyone keeps using arguments that don't apply to what the other person said.
> 
> Wal-mart is searching _everyone_. Not just the person with the garden gnome looking bulge.


actually it was to make a point. if you see something missing and an unusual person(aka someone you don't know) walking down the road, that appears to lugging something(could be a limp) but knowing human nature majority will assume that person is lugging something. Human nature would be to at least check it out, maybe drive by and see if they actually have something.

kind of like how walmart doesn't know you, and theif's come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. its normal for them to want to check whats leaving in their baskets.

Regardless of that 'latches' takes effect which is legal and is only valid on their property.

walmart has it posted, you buy items they check the basket before you leave, good on them.

you have 'trespassers will be shot' posted and you shoot a trespasser, good for you.

Its not like they weren't notified that 'hey this is going to happen'... pretty foolish on the person to expect otherwise on some other persons property.


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## dannydefense

bhtacticaloutdoors said:


> actually it was to make a point. if you see something missing and an unusual person(aka someone you don't know) walking down the road, that appears to lugging something(could be a limp) but knowing human nature majority will assume that person is lugging something. Human nature would be to at least check it out, maybe drive by and see if they actually have something.
> 
> kind of like how walmart doesn't know you, and theif's come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. its normal for them to want to check whats leaving in their baskets.


You're reaching, to say the least.

In the end, they have the right to run their business as they see fit. What they are doing is akin to random searches done by the police, which we all know are unacceptable. Not to mention immoral, which is why it's in the constitution. The rules are different for Wal-mart, but in the end if they wish to treat their customers in a way that even our law enforcement can't treat citizens, people have every right to be upset and refuse to do business with them. They should protest it, and Wal-mart should find a less intrusive way to protect themselves.

In the end it's getting the sheeple ready. The more comfortable you become with small intrusions the easier it will be to convince you the bigger ones are just to protect you, or somebody else.


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

dannydefense said:


> You're reaching, to say the least.
> 
> In the end, they have the right to run their business as they see fit. What they are doing is akin to random searches done by the police, which we all know are unacceptable. Not to mention immoral, which is why it's in the constitution. The rules are different for Wal-mart, but in the end if they wish to treat their customers in a way that even our law enforcement can't treat citizens, people have every right to be upset and refuse to do business with them. They should protest it, and Wal-mart should find a less intrusive way to protect themselves.
> 
> In the end it's getting the sheeple ready. The more comfortable you become with small intrusions the easier it will be to convince you the bigger ones are just to protect you, or somebody else.


You mistaking a Business for a government entity.... The Constitution is in place to restrain government, and to restrict people's rule to their own property.

You need to do some more research on notices... because what I'm getting from you is no one has the right to protect their property on their property.

Your turning a basket check into a fully body search, I'm not the one reaching here...


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## slewfoot

I don't give a rats behind if they want to look in my bag, I am not stealing anything so I don't have a thing to hide. what's a 30 second peak for gods sake.
As for not flying because you don't want them to search you or your bags, well that is your hang up. We have flown all over the world and thank god they do these screenings of persons and bags. I don't want to be on a plane that some dip is going to blow up or hijack.


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## dannydefense

bhtacticaloutdoors said:


> You mistaking a Business for a government entity.... The Constitution is in place to restrain government, and to restrict people's rule to their own property.


No, I'm not. You're not reading what I'm saying.



bhtacticaloutdoors said:


> You need to do some more research on notices... because what I'm getting from you is no one has the right to protect their property on their property.


No, I don't. You're not reading what I'm saying.

Every private business owner has the right to protect their business. How they do so is also their choice, and their right. I'm not debating that, but that's all you seem to want to hear. It's such a conditioned response, I'm not sure if there's any point debating it. Private entities can act as private entities wish. I get that. So can private citizens. Those who don't wish to be treated as criminals can choose to go elsewhere.

Please read the following and don't attach any underlying message or between the lines to it; Wal-marts actions are akin to treating their customers as criminals.

How come there are a plethora of other multi-million and multi-billion dollar businesses that can combat theft without doing the same? They probably make a wee bit less money sure, because they're spending more money on loss prevention (as a percentage ratio, not a dollar, please), but they're not insulting every one at the same time. Outside of being insulting, it's just lazy.


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## dannydefense

slewfoot said:


> I don't give a rats behind if they want to look in my bag, I am not stealing anything so I don't have a thing to hide. what's a 30 second peak for gods sake.


You probably also don't mind being stopped by the police and asked for your ID. After all, you've done nothing wrong.

Welcome to a Brave New World.


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## jimb1972

dannydefense said:


> You probably also don't mind being stopped by the police and asked for your ID. After all, you've done nothing wrong.
> 
> Welcome to a Brave New World.


They have a right to look, I have a right to do business elsewhere. It is not all that complicated. It has nothing in common with the police stopping you and asking for your papers, a store is private property, that is also why the police can't give you a ticket for running the stop sign in their parking lot.


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## dannydefense

jimb1972 said:


> They have a right to look, I have a right to do business elsewhere. It is not all that complicated.


In the end, that's all I'm saying, but...



jimb1972 said:


> It has nothing in common with the police stopping you and asking for your papers, a store is private property, that is also why the police can't give you a ticket for running the stop sign in their parking lot.


I disagree. It may not be the same on a legal basis, but it damn sure is on an ethical one.


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## slewfoot

dannydefense said:


> You probably also don't mind being stopped by the police and asked for your ID. After all, you've done nothing wrong.
> 
> Welcome to a Brave New World.


You are right, wouldn't bother me a bit.


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## dannydefense

slewfoot said:


> You are right, wouldn't bother me a bit.


You have no idea how sad that makes me. Carry on, friend.


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## slewfoot

dannydefense said:


> You have no idea how sad that makes me. Carry on, friend.


In Florida they must have probable cause to stop you and are required to point out the cause. Not a random thing. In my 54 years of driving and my wife's 50 years of driving we can proudly say we have never been stopped or been in an accident.
Now that I said that watch what will happen the next time I pull out of the driveway.lol.


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## tango

The thread has wondered, been led, off course.
The fact that they check receipts/ bags has nothing to do with it being a good store to get preps.
Don't wanna shop there-- don't.
I am sure they will not miss you.


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

dannydefense said:


> In the end it's getting the sheeple ready. The more comfortable you become with small intrusions the easier it will be to convince you the bigger ones are just to protect you, or somebody else.


Your implying that a business that is conducting a reasonable search(to prevent property loss on their property) in their basket that your using is in league with the government.

If they were conducting searches on your person without any cause then its a violation, you can take proper action. This is being made out as if walmart is conducting TSA style body scanner/cavity searchers on people, then searching their cars, and making a stop at their house. Or that they are pushing for this, all that is clearly unreasonable. Its also a huge difference compared to cross checking a receipt and glancing into a few bags.

You have a right to be sovereign on your property. Look up sovereign in blacks law dictionary.


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## PaulS

4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and
seizures, shall not be violated; and no Warrants shall issue,
but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and
particularly describing the place to be searched and the
persons or things to be seized.

Where in the fourth amendment does it give anyone the power to search me or my bag?

In WA. state a shop owner can put up any sign they want and it has no weight of law. They can even post "gun free zone" and I can walk in with my 357 on and it does not break the law. In order to have the weight of law the sign must reference the statute that confers the power of law to the store, organization, etc. - without a law to back up what the sign says it is meaningless. 

I saw nothing in the Florida law that gives them the power to search my goods. It did say that if you are asked to display their goods that you have to comply but after I purchase the stuff it is mine and they no longer have the power to force me to display the goods that I own. 
I do not shop there and that is my choice. What would the cop have for a reason to search me? what charge would I be arrested on? The fourth amendment is very clear. If you want to give up your right to privacy that is your choice, but it is not mine.


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## bhtacticaloutdoors

Their are also rights beyond the Constitution. 

The search conducted by walmart is reasonable.


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## PaulS

bhtacticaloutdoors said:


> Their are also rights beyond the Constitution.
> 
> The search conducted by walmart is reasonable.


Not unless they have reason to believe I stole something and the person standing between the checkout counter and the door has no reason to believe I stole anything.

I am an honest individual and I don't tolerate being treated like a criminal. I won't tolerate having my rights dismissed so the store can "feel good".


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## slewfoot

Well Paul their policy's will be in place for ever. If you don't like them don't go there. Simple.


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## PaulS

slewfoot said:


> Well Paul their policy's will be in place for ever. If you don't like them don't go there. Simple.


I won't shop there, just as I don't frequent "gun free zones" or commercial flights. I don't support those who would enslave me. You are also free to shop where your rights are worthless.


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## Mish

PaulS said:


> I won't shop there, just as I don't frequent "gun free zones" or commercial flights.* I don't support those who would enslave me.* You are also free to shop where your rights are worthless.


Not everything is about you. hehe There are some sacrifices that we make for the greater good. (no guns on planes) It's a shame that you can't see that.


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## PaulS

Since TSA started searching people three terrorists have been stopped. They were stopped in the plane not by the TSA. Do you still feel safe?
Even the ex-head of Israeli security said that the TSA was nothing that would stop terrorists. They know how to stop terrorists and they don't do body searches.


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## Mish

I feel* safer* knowing that not every person off the street can walk on a plane with a gun or sharp object. Do I believe it's a perfect system...no. =)


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## PaulS

I'm sad because if we were allowed to carry our guns on the planes no one would have a chance to hijack one.

The two planes that crashed into the twin towers were able to do it because nobody fought back. One plane that ended crashing into a field instead of another building because people fought back. If there had been just two men or women on those planes with guns none of it would ever have happened. It used to be if you were licensed to carry you could carry it on flights. Then DB cooper highjacked a plane - no gun was involved only a phony bomb - but guns were banned. I would easily climb on a plane with ten other folks who were licensed to carry - it would be safer than flying is now.


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## Meangreen

PaulS said:


> I'm sad because if we were allowed to carry our guns on the planes no one would have a chance to hijack one.
> 
> The two planes that crashed into the twin towers were able to do it because nobody fought back. One plane that ended crashing into a field instead of another building because people fought back. If there had been just two men or women on those planes with guns none of it would ever have happened. It used to be if you were licensed to carry you could carry it on flights. Then DB cooper highjacked a plane - no gun was involved only a phony bomb - but guns were banned. I would easily climb on a plane with ten other folks who were licensed to carry - it would be safer than flying is now.


Did they touch you in the naughty spot?


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## Mish

PaulS said:


> I'm sad because if we were allowed to carry our guns on the planes no one would have a chance to hijack one.
> 
> The two planes that crashed into the twin towers were able to do it because nobody fought back. One plane that ended crashing into a field instead of another building because people fought back. If there had been just two men or women on those planes with guns none of it would ever have happened. It used to be if you were licensed to carry you could carry it on flights. Then DB cooper highjacked a plane - no gun was involved only a phony bomb - but guns were banned. I would easily climb on a plane with ten other folks who were licensed to carry - it would be safer than flying is now.


If everyone was as trustworthy as you it would be a perfect world... BUT it's not and I don't trust the person next to me on a plane as far as I can throw them.

Wasn't that plane in Pa shot down?


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## PaulS

Mish said:


> If everyone was as trustworthy as you it would be a perfect world... BUT it's not and I don't trust the person next to me on a plane as far as I can throw them.
> 
> Wasn't that plane in Pa shot down?


Nope. it went down because although the guys got a couple of the terrorists they did not regain control of the plane. Those folks gave their lives to prevent another building from being hit. Four or five guys completely unarmed. They probably saved 1000s of lives.


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## Mish

That's what the government wants you to believe. ;-)


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## Meangreen

Mish said:


> That's what the government wants you to believe. ;-)


....


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## Mish

I look damn good in a foil hat...just sayin


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## Meangreen

Mish said:


> I look damn good in a foil hat...just sayin


The little boat hat is cute but I like to make mine into a bonnet like Little House on the Prairie.


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## Just Sayin'

Meangreen said:


> The little boat hat is cute but I like to make mine into a bonnet like Little House on the Prairie.


Please, Oh Please, don't tell me you're a cross-dresser!


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## Mish

Just Sayin' said:


> Please, Oh Please, don't tell me you're a cross-dresser!


I've seen pictures!! He looks cute in a little red teddy!


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## dannydefense

Just Sayin' said:


> Please, Oh Please, don't tell me you're a cross-dresser!


He's trisexual.

He'll tri anything.


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## Meangreen

Hey hey hey I was talking about tin foil hats! Trust me at 6'6" there is very little that actually fits me including little little red teddies!


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## Mish

Meangreen said:


> Hey hey hey I was talking about tin foil hats! Trust me at 6'6" there is very little that actually fits me including little little red teddies!


Don't make me post the picture!


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## nurseholly

Mish said:


> I've seen pictures!! He looks cute in a little red teddy!


Oh really???


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## Mish

**********


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## nurseholly

dannydefense said:


> He's trisexual.
> 
> He'll tri anything.


I think it's time for Mrs. Meangreen to intervene...


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## Meangreen

For the record that is NOT me. :roll:


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## nurseholly

Mish said:


>


Thankfully, this picture is not of my husband...


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## Meangreen

Besides red is so trashy!


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## Mish

Shit! Sorry! It was Denton that sent me this! My bad!


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## PaulS

Ah.... a breath of fresh air...
Mish, you are remarkable!


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## Just Sayin'

LMAO

:lol:


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## nurseholly

Meangreen said:


> Besides red is so trashy!


That's not the only thing that trashy...


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## Meangreen

You're gonna be in so much trouble!


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## PaulS

That was funny! It might have been funnier if it was played on me but it was still funny.


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## nurseholly

Meangreen said:


> You're gonna be in so much trouble!


yup!!!!


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## pheniox17

Mish said:


> This is what he sent me!


once this has been seen, it can't be unseen... (quick a sexy picture stat)


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## Mish

nurseholly...you are gorgeous, girl! Amazing smile.


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## Mish

pheniox17 said:


> once this has been seen, it can't be unseen... (quick a sexy picture stat)


Alright I must confess...this is a selfie I took the other night.


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## Meangreen

I think we may have crossed the line and that image should be deleted, unfortunately we can't do the same thing to our brains!


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## nurseholly

Mish said:


> nurseholly...you are gorgeous, girl! Amazing smile.


Too late to kiss my ass now....


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## Mish

Ok then.


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## pheniox17

Mish said:


> Alright I must confess...this is a selfie I took the other night.


nurseholly... please post your sexy ar again... please


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## PaulS

Nurseholly,
C'mon, that was funny and it didn't expose anyone. It would have been a lot funnier If it was me! but it's still was funny.


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## slewfoot

Thank you


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## dannydefense

You're all a bunch of illegal immigrants.


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## Donkey

nurseholly said:


> That's not the only thing that trashy...


Ha leg humpers


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