# How much should we worry about immigrants to America?



## Stanley Stupid (Aug 18, 2018)

We definitely need tight borders. But I'm wondering, as it stands right now, how secure are we and how much should we worry? Could potential terrorists currently be coming into the country or are things secure enough that no suicide-style Muslims could come in? I know Trump has done a lot of good work to keep them out, but I'm still not 100% sure that some dangerous terrorist couldn't still sneak in somehow.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Fair question. However many of us are big on protocol. Please write an introduction so we learn something about you. With no boarders or customs inspections, anything can come in or out. Drugs, slaves, terrorists, criminals, suit case nuke. The open boarders crowd would rather be in charge of 10 million survivors than out of power with 300 million plus citizens. Only a fool would think the current situation is secure.


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

Seems like bait. 
This is your first post, really?


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## Stanley Stupid (Aug 18, 2018)

That is my worry Camel. Even though our president is finally trying to take control of the situation we still can't feel like we are safe. I dont get how New Zealand gets no backlash for not allowing foreigners to buy land (which I agree with) but when America wants to be strict about who can move here for good people have a big problem with it. 

And my worry was mostly about religious terrorists who aim to harm as many people as possible, but you are right that they aren't the only thing to worry about from open borders. 


Sorry I didn't know people would care to learn about me lol. I am Brett and I am a farm hand and work part time for a roofing contractor in northwest Iowa and southern Minnesota.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

the foreign agents are mixed in there - they have been caught - not the dumbazz idiots that shoot up a bunch of sheeple >>>> the true pros that are trained & working full time for the foreign powers & terrorist orgs ....


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm in favor of allowing all American citizens the right to stop with extreme prejudice anyone crossing our boarders illegally. Any questions, don't cross the boarder.


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## MikeTango (Apr 13, 2018)

They’re already here... It’s just a matter of time!


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

This isn't the first time, but it is going very much the same.

Study Spanish. Teach your kids Spanish.

It might keep them off welfare.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

You know how they will learn English?
Then they get they tongues cut off for not speaking English...


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Jammer Six said:


> This isn't the first time, but it is going very much the same.
> 
> Study Spanish. Teach your kids Spanish.
> 
> It might keep them off welfare.


Great idea. They can be slaves to support the illegal immigrants that get welfare.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

After someone explained the "III" decal I began to see why no one was very concerned about immigration.

If only 3% of our soldiers go to war, that means most Americans never see the horrors. They reside in suburban communities and once per year they sell chocolate for the benefit of orphan kids. They have no contact with real crime or mindless violence.

Even if these suburbanites meet a guy from a foreign country, he has a job and a wife, he just talks with a funny accent.

Notice in all of the mall attacks and the school shootings, one citizen in the crowd is asked how she feels. The usual answer a reporter gets is something like, "I never thought it could happen here." I'm beginning to wonder if most Americans feel that violence is "for other people."

I was having a debate about knives on one forum. I showed them this picture:


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Urinal Cake said:


> You know how they will learn English?
> The they get they tongues cut off for not speaking English...


No, then the American people would end up pay all their bills forever and they would never have to even try to find work. Just stop them at the boarder. Gut shot works for me, then the others try to sneak in can hear them moan and stop before it's their turn to cross and drag their friend back with them.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Stanley Stupid said:


> We definitely need tight borders. But I'm wondering, as it stands right now, how secure are we and how much should we worry? Could potential terrorists currently be coming into the country or are things secure enough that no suicide-style Muslims could come in? I know Trump has done a lot of good work to keep them out, but I'm still not 100% sure that some dangerous terrorist couldn't still sneak in somehow.


Would seem prudent to worry as much about immigrants as we do about the muslims who have already infiltrated the Country...meaning we should be real worried..because they want to convert or kill us. Then we have the Feds paying millions to turn black criminals into muslims in the Federal Prisons. As Pogo said..We have met the enemy and he is us. 
https://weta.org/press/“homegrown-i...se-and-influence-muslim-faith-us-penal-system


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## Stanley Stupid (Aug 18, 2018)

I think this is a powerful message. do we need to not lose sight of those who are already here as those who are currently maybe crossing the border? But that's a tough question. how can we possibly find them (besides the FBI who hopefully has them tracked) and that's why I say we need to be as vigilant as ever about Americans carrying firearms.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Stanley Stupid said:


> We definitely need tight borders. But I'm wondering, as it stands right now, how secure are we and how much should we worry? Could potential terrorists currently be coming into the country or are things secure enough that no suicide-style Muslims could come in? I know Trump has done a lot of good work to keep them out, but I'm still not 100% sure that some dangerous terrorist couldn't still sneak in somehow.


Hezbollah and even HAMAS has been infiltrating for many years. They've already used are porous borders to come in, blend in and wait for the go-code. Don't assume the feds know where they are or know exactly where they will strike.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

In January of 2017, The Texas Department of Public Safety released a report that outlined their concerns about ISIS terrorists illegally crossing into the United States through the US-Mexico border. The report noted that since 2012, at least 13 terrorists have attempted to cross into Mexico through the border.

According to a report released in April of 2018, the border in Texas has become the number one point of entry for illegal Bangladeshi immigrants. As the third largest Muslim country by population, Bangladesh is known for being a hotbed for Islamic terrorism. In 2017, Border Patrol agents in Laredo, Texas apprehended 180 Bangladeshi nationals.

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/texas...im-men-from-bangladesh-illegally-entering-us/


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

And the 180 is just the number they caught. We're in trouble on the southern boarder for sure! What about coming in from Canada?


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Denton said:


> Hezbollah and even HAMAS has been infiltrating for many years. They've already used are porous borders to come in, blend in and wait for the go-code. Don't assume the feds know where they are or know exactly where they will strike.


You take the risk and live like free men or you cower behind sand walls that you built against the tide.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Denton said:


> Hezbollah and even HAMAS has been infiltrating for many years. They've already used are porous borders to come in, blend in and wait for the go-code. Don't assume the feds know where they are or know exactly where they will strike.


The Feds are to busy chasing politicians and their own to worry about the criminals coming across the boarders


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

911 was only the tip of a very large iceberg. As mentioned, they are already here and it's not if, it's when. Don't think they aren't planning something big. We are vulnerable and they know it.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I believe we're vulnerable because most Americans do not want to fight.

I mean, who would you go up against, The Ladies' Aid Society, or the local chapter of The Hells Angels?

If these guys want to die for Allah, give them their wish, but make sure it's a fruitless gesture. Rip the wires from the bomb and rip his arteries from his body. Make sure every attack is a deadly failure.

The Alamo was held with 110 men. Francis Marion held the entire southern front with two dozen men from the British trying to flank Washington. And sometimes these men came and went.

Either that, or surrender and start to bow to sharia law...


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

Before my career in journalism went to the crapper, I was able to "ride" with the border patrol 3 times in So Cal. On the 2nd ride it was 15 hours, 5pm to 8am. We caught 12 illegals crossing with 2 coyotes, almost stopped some drug runners and I came within 3 ft of being killed. The year was 2007. The lead agent told me on the record that there were already people on the watch list apprehended, well before 2007. People who were thought to be part of a terrorist network. 

While staying in a hotel in sept of 2014 I watched 20 minutes a Cspan while leaders of border patrol, HHS and one other group (I forget who) answered questions about illegal immigration. Apparently there were 1 million people from other countries who came here on a work or student visa, who never checked back in when it was time for them to leave. And our Govt. has no idea where they are or what they are doing. If only 1% of that group were "bad guys" that is a large enough force to do some serious damage to what we call normality. 

Just 2 weeks ago, CBS did story about how easy it is to cross into the U.S. from Canada. They showed several places that it could be done and nobody is watching. I also heard it's easier to fly into Canada from middle eastern countries than it is into Mexico City. 

I'd guess bad guys are already here, and have been here a long time. I'd bet some of them own businesses and operating right under our noses. I wouldn't be surprised if they've donated money to local groups to "blend in" with local society and to gain trust from us. 

There are going to be a lot of tree hugger and bleeding heart types that will be in for a very rude awakening. 

But what do I know...

Before my career in journalism went to the crapper, I was able to "ride" with the border patrol 3 times in So Cal. On the 2nd ride it was 15 hours, 5pm to 8am. We caught 12 illegals crossing with 2 coyotes, almost stopped some drug runners and I came within 3 ft of being killed. The year was 2007. The lead agent told me on the record that there were already people on the watch list apprehended, well before 2007. People who were thought to be part of a terrorist network. 

While staying in a hotel in sept of 2014 I watched 20 minutes a Cspan while leaders of border patrol, HHS and one other group (I forget who) answered questions about illegal immigration. Apparently there were 1 million people from other countries who came here on a work or student visa, who never checked back in when it was time for them to leave. And our Govt. has no idea where they are or what they are doing. If only 1% of that group were "bad guys" that is a large enough force to do some serious damage to what we call normality. 

Just 2 weeks ago, CBS did story about how easy it is to cross into the U.S. from Canada. They showed several places that it could be done and nobody is watching. I also heard it's easier to fly into Canada from middle eastern countries than it is into Mexico City. 

I'd guess bad guys are already here, and have been here a long time. I'd bet some of them own businesses and operating right under our noses. I wouldn't be surprised if they've donated money to local groups to "blend in" with local society and to gain trust from us. 

There are going to be a lot of tree hugger and bleeding heart types that will be in for a very rude awakening. 

But what do I know...


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

The Alamo was lost.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Jammer Six said:


> The Alamo was lost.


That my Friend was a single battle, however much was gained as a result of this battle &#8230;.. Oh yea, the war was indeed won. Maybe they don't teach much Texas history up in the Pacific Northwest, huh?


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

If you say so. I'm just the who pointed out that the Alamo wasn't held.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Jammer Six said:


> The Alamo was lost.


Yes, that often happens when standing against despots. Consider Thermopylae.

If Leonidas had not taken a stand at 'The Hot Gates' there might never have been another Senate elected free country. Yes, Spartans owned slaves and boys had to endure the agōgē schools, but their sacrifice is the reason that millennials get to yell all the stupid stuff they do.

I proudly wear his final words to the Persians on my vest:








And a jolly Μολὼν λαβέ to all supporters of freedom.


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## Tango2X (Jul 7, 2016)

More than we do !!


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)




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## Daddy O (Jan 20, 2014)

Our borders are too big, and the allure too great. We will never stop illegal immigration. I've lived in border towns for a total of 14 years, and another 30 in AZ, and it just cannot be done without turning the border zone into a DMZ (which it has already become on the southern border.) As it stands now, the 4th amendment is little more than a theory in the border zone. BP stops people (including white people like y'all) just because they _'didn't recognize your vehicle'_. They are supposed to have reasonable suspicion that you are actively in the commission of a crime, but they play fast & loose and make up their own rules. I get stopped all the time for the most insipid reasons. My survivalist friend Dan finally sold his house out near Douglas because he was so tired of BP driving across his private property, or showing up at his barn to ask for ID. Living within 50 miles of the southern border has become like something from a dystopian novel.

Oh, and I forgot the checkpoints.
Yep, federal checkpoints all along the border.
No, not AT the border. These are 40-50 miles inside of America. They run 24x7, Border Patrol stops everyone along major highways. Sometimes they actually tell you that your papers are not in order.
It's way past slippery slope.


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## Daddy O (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes, we need to control our borders, but we need to be mindful of how much power we give the government.
They have proven that they will abuse any power we cede to them.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Daddy O said:


> Our borders are too big, and the allure too great. We will never stop illegal immigration. I've lived in border towns for a total of 14 years, and another 30 in AZ, and it just cannot be done without turning the border zone into a DMZ (which it has already become on the southern border.) As it stands now, the 4th amendment is little more than a theory in the border zone. BP stops people (including white people like y'all) just because they _'didn't recognize your vehicle'_. They are supposed to have reasonable suspicion that you are actively in the commission of a crime, but they play fast & loose and make up their own rules. I get stopped all the time for the most insipid reasons. My survivalist friend Dan finally sold his house out near Douglas because he was so tired of BP driving across his private property, or showing up at his barn to ask for ID. Living within 50 miles of the southern border has become like something from a dystopian novel.
> 
> Oh, and I forgot the checkpoints.
> Yep, federal checkpoints all along the border.
> ...


Ya'll?


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

You can't stop them. We've done this before.

Learn Spanish.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Jammer Six said:


> Learn Spanish.


Ummm No! Speak English or get the **** out!


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

hawgrider said:


> Ummm No! Speak English or get the **** out!


Okay, don't bother.

In ten years, being mono-lingual will be the same type of handicap not being able to type is now.

You just won't be competitive as an employee.


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

Jammer Six said:


> You take the risk and live like free men or you cower behind sand walls that you built against the tide.


No one is free.


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

Take the money from the cuts on UN funding and create 5700 jobs for a new national militia overseen by the military paying $50,000 a year to active members whose sole purpose is to protect the border.


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## Daddy O (Jan 20, 2014)

hawgrider said:


> Ummm No! Speak English or get the **** out!


Agreed.
I refuse to speak Spanish north of the border, and I hate it when I'm in Nogales or some border town and I walk into a store and the clerk just assumes I speak Spanish.
If you wanna become an American, then the first step is learning the language.
When in Rome...

I worry about the check stations though. They are just the kind of slippery slope that could work against us.
The land they sit upon is ceded to the feds indefinitely.
Their mandate is very broad, and easy to change. Right now it's just Customs and BP manning the stations, but it could just as easily be ATF or DHS.

A few years ago Obama wanted to use the check stations to control the flow of firearms in both directions.
The story they were selling to the public was that they needed to help Mexico restrict the flow of inexpensive guns from the US to Mexico.
The only reason it got derailed was that details of operation gunrunner came to light about that time.

Since they re-upped the patriot act, they can add these checkpoints anywhere in the border security zone...and as you saw from the map I posted, that's all the way around the country.


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## Jammer Six (Jun 2, 2017)

Daddy O said:


> Agreed.
> I refuse to speak Spanish north of the border, and I hate it when I'm in Nogales or some border town and I walk into a store and the clerk just assumes I speak Spanish.
> If you wanna become an American, then the first step is learning the language.
> When in Rome...


If any of that were true, in Texas, you'd be speaking whatever the Commanche speak.

If your children are handicapped with only one language, they're going to have problems.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Stanley Stupid said:


> We definitely need tight borders. But I'm wondering, as it stands right now, how secure are we and how much should we worry? Could potential terrorists currently be coming into the country or are things secure enough that no suicide-style Muslims could come in? I know Trump has done a lot of good work to keep them out, but I'm still not 100% sure that some dangerous terrorist couldn't still sneak in somehow.







Fair enough, and it is highly likely that terrorists will make it into America, from Mexico. And it is likely that they will have bombs with them, already made and prepped, ready to go.
Do you recall this scene from Act Of Valor, where a Chechen terrorist smuggled explosive vests into Mexico? His intent was to send carriers into malls, and other packed places.

Then they would pick the right spot [pre-planned and chosen, and packed with people] to detonate the vest. That was not a made up scenario, that was a SEAL operation, as far as I know. 
I am going by the movie on that. What is stopping it from happening? Maybe we have been lucky since 9/11, and who saw that coming? Nobody, that is who. There are devils in the flesh, who would love to blow up a mall.

Who is there that can prove me wrong? But all that it will take to prove me right, is a detonation of a vest, inside a mall or any crowded place.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

*Man Charged In Chicago In Iranian Spy Plot: Feds*

Federal authorities said an Iranian-American man was spying on a Jewish center in Hyde Park.

https://patch.com/illinois/hydepark/man-charged-chicago-iranian-spy-plot-feds

the MOST interesting part >>>>>>

_
"Federal authorities said both men worked as foreign agents to "conduct covert surveillance" on the Mojahedin-e Khalq and Israeli/Jewish groups. The men then reported the information collected back to the Iranian government, the federal complaint states.

*The complaint said information was gathered about several U.S. Congressmen who have "overt ties" to the Mojahedin-e Khalq.* The information was found in a suitcase that was tied to Ghorbani and Doostdar, authorities said. *The names of the congressmen haven't been released."*
_


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

here's another one that Homeland ran down in the Chicago area >>>> another internet warrior in name only - but where's there's one >>> there's more .....

https://abc7chicago.com/north-side-chicago-man-charged-in-isis-terror-case/4519089/?sf200421285=1

educated in Jordan and then came walking thru that wide open immigration gate - apparently went to Malaysia for terrorist training after becoming a US citizen ...

guy needs to be GITMO bound and not some FED prison where he'll be converting the blacks ....


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

15 Saudis flew first class to the US on touriest visas or student visas they killed 3K and took down the towers. Immigrants, borders and walls had nothing to do with 9-11. The Saudias allhad visas of some sort. Most paperless immigrants arrive by plane on a tourist visa and stay rather than go home. 

Oklahoma city, Una bomber, Atlanta bombings, DC Sniper and the bombings in Texas last year , not to mention all the school shootings - nothing to do with immigrants. Does a peperless immigrant occasionally get drunk and drive killing someone, rape , murder. Yes . NO data on do they do that more often or less than other groups. Take 10 thousand mormans and you get a rapist or a murderer, same if you took 10 thousand Irish men or Frenchmen or folks from Brooklyn or you get the idea . Good and bad in every group.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

RJAMES said:


> 15 Saudis flew first class to the US on touriest visas or student visas they killed 3K and took down the towers. Immigrants, borders and walls had nothing to do with 9-11. The Saudias allhad visas of some sort. Most paperless immigrants arrive by plane on a tourist visa and stay rather than go home.
> 
> Oklahoma city, Una bomber, Atlanta bombings, DC Sniper and the bombings in Texas last year , not to mention all the school shootings - nothing to do with immigrants. Does a peperless immigrant occasionally get drunk and drive killing someone, rape , murder. Yes . NO data on do they do that more often or less than other groups. Take 10 thousand mormans and you get a rapist or a murderer, same if you took 10 thousand Irish men or Frenchmen or folks from Brooklyn or you get the idea . Good and bad in every group.


all the 911 attackers were in the US and living undercover for a good period of time before being activated >>> there was no evidence of any "commando team" coming in at the last minute ...


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

AGAIN,

STOP ALL IMMIGRATION TO THE US FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS. Systematically remove all illegal aliens found in the US. All illegals who are currently serving death sentences in US prisons need to be executed immediately. All other illegal alien prisoners should be removed from US prisons and returned to their country of origin. 

Build a border wall and defend the border with force as necessary. 

Concurrently, reduce welfare by a huge percentage immediately and stop all payments to other countries. Return the confiscated tax dollars to the American people. They will put the former welfare rats to work and they will all have a better life.

Problem solved.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We need to worry a lot. Most coming here now are not coming here to join us. They are coming to take America down at all cost.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RJAMES said:


> 15 Saudis flew first class to the US on touriest visas or student visas they killed 3K and took down the towers. Immigrants, borders and walls had nothing to do with 9-11. The Saudias allhad visas of some sort. Most paperless immigrants arrive by plane on a tourist visa and stay rather than go home.
> 
> Oklahoma city, Una bomber, Atlanta bombings, DC Sniper and the bombings in Texas last year , not to mention all the school shootings - nothing to do with immigrants. Does a peperless immigrant occasionally get drunk and drive killing someone, rape , murder. Yes . NO data on do they do that more often or less than other groups. Take 10 thousand mormans and you get a rapist or a murderer, same if you took 10 thousand Irish men or Frenchmen or folks from Brooklyn or you get the idea . Good and bad in every group.


Yes, the 9/11 terrorists are not in the same catagory as the illegals at the border. You are correct. Regardless, yes, it is documented that the illegals do commit more crime and sanctuary cities have more crime. Sure, there is good and bad in every group, but to point out that is nothing more than a cop-out or an attempt to cover for the destruction of what little remains of American culture.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

RJAMES said:


> 15 Saudis flew first class to the US on touriest visas or student visas they killed 3K and took down the towers. Immigrants, borders and walls had nothing to do with 9-11. The Saudias allhad visas of some sort. Most paperless immigrants arrive by plane on a tourist visa and stay rather than go home.
> 
> Oklahoma city, Una bomber, Atlanta bombings, DC Sniper and the bombings in Texas last year , not to mention all the school shootings - nothing to do with immigrants. Does a peperless immigrant occasionally get drunk and drive killing someone, rape , murder. Yes . NO data on do they do that more often or less than other groups. Take 10 thousand mormans and you get a rapist or a murderer, same if you took 10 thousand Irish men or Frenchmen or folks from Brooklyn or you get the idea . Good and bad in every group.


I don't blame the immigrants for wanting to come here illegally. It's a completely rational thing for them to attempt do, assuming their lives are in danger. The problem is that as a nation we can't support them. We don't have the funds to support them. It's not rational for us to allow the illegal aliens to take us down into further debt. Because then our children--for whom we do have an obligation--won't be spared. Our debt slave children will be swallowed up by the same sorts of corrupt governments the illegal aliens are leaving because we'll become what they are.

ETA: What I/we (if inclined) can do for these poor people at the border is pray. Prayers are free. God is good that way. He doesn't give us all the money to fix everyone's problems ('the poor you will always have'), but God can fix things.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Ragnarök said:


> Take the money from the cuts on UN funding and create 5700 jobs for a new national militia overseen by the military paying $50,000 a year to active members whose sole purpose is to protect the border.


Sure. But we already HAVE resources we are ALREADY paying for which can be utilized and therefore cost us NOTHING. How about all National Guard training now occurs on the border? From every "non-sanctuary" state willing to participate?


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Annie said:


> I don't blame the immigrants for wanting to come here illegally. It's a completely rational thing for them to attempt do, assuming their lives are in danger. The problem is that as a nation we can't support them. We don't have the funds to support them. It's not rational for us to allow the illegal aliens to take us down into further debt. Because then our children--for whom we do have an obligation--won't be spared. Our debt slave children will be swallowed up by the same sorts of corrupt governments the illegal aliens are leaving because we'll become what they are.
> 
> ETA: What I/we (if inclined) can do for these poor people at the border is pray. Prayers are free. God is good that way. He doesn't give us all the money to fix everyone's problems ('the poor you will always have'), but God can fix things.


Sorry, . . . Annie, . . . I have to disagree with your thinking. In fact, . . . I'll have to call it out as "shoddy" thinking. Immigrants coming here from any where know the difference between legal and not legal, . . . right and wrong.

There are many other places they could go, . . . some would not be illegal.

I'm ready, . . . willing, . . . but not able to call a time out here in the states, . . . shut down all in / out travel for 7 days (or however long it takes), . . . put the law and the military to checking every person, . . . period, . . . and ascertaining their status.

Illegals go to a local gulag, . . . for further processing, . . . send em somewhere, . . . anywhere, . . . just get rid of em, . . . all, . . . every last one, . . . no exceptions.

Anchor babies can stay, . . . or go back with the parents, . . . but the parents are going, . . . period, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> Sorry, . . . Annie, . . . I have to disagree with your thinking. In fact, . . . I'll have to call it out as "shoddy" thinking. Immigrants coming here from any where know the difference between legal and not legal, . . . right and wrong.
> 
> There are many other places they could go, . . . some would not be illegal.
> 
> ...


Harsh times call for harsh measures. Saving our nation comes first.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> I don't blame the immigrants for wanting to come here illegally. It's a completely rational thing for them to attempt do, assuming their lives are in danger. The problem is that as a nation we can't support them. We don't have the funds to support them. It's not rational for us to allow the illegal aliens to take us down into further debt. Because then our children--for whom we do have an obligation--won't be spared. Our debt slave children will be swallowed up by the same sorts of corrupt governments the illegal aliens are leaving because we'll become what they are.
> 
> ETA: What I/we (if inclined) can do for these poor people at the border is pray. Prayers are free. God is good that way. He doesn't give us all the money to fix everyone's problems ('the poor you will always have'), but God can fix things.


Oh Annie, its about so much more than future debt. Our culture is under an intentional assault with an intent to destroy it. The global elitists want nothing more than America to be Europeanized.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

At what point do we wake up and realize we are loosing this country without so much as a shot fired in her defense? After we have lost our homes, our families, our harritage, our freedoms, our constitution? 

Shut the borders down now.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

Some immigration is ok, the ones that contribute and respect our sovereignty are welcome, the rest can stay where they are at.....we have enough freeloaders without bringing in more.....my grandparents were immigrants, they learned English, changed their names to English names, worked and started their own business, no government handouts, they did just fine, raising nine children, all born at home by the way....


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

rstanek said:


> Some immigration is ok, the ones that contribute and respect our sovereignty are welcome, the rest can stay where they are at.....we have enough freeloaders without bringing in more.....my grandparents were immigrants, they learned English, changed their names to English names, worked and started their own business, no government handouts, they did just fine, raising nine children, all born at home by the way....


All well and good. I am all for controlled legal immigration. It is necessary to grow the economy and it is what this country was built on. However, as it stands now we have no control, no set process, and no idea who is coming across our borders and for what reasons. It is not legal immigration. Shut the borders down now. Shut it down till we have commen sense laws in place that will be enforced! I like @ Slippy 's idea of 10 years. What is approaching our borders now is not immigration, it is an invasion. Shut it down now!


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Annie said:


> I don't blame* the immigrants* for wanting to come here illegally. It's a completely rational thing for them to attempt do, assuming their lives are in danger. The problem is that as a nation we can't support them. We don't have the funds to support them. It's not rational for us to allow the illegal aliens to take us down into further debt. Because then our children--for whom we do have an obligation--won't be spared. Our debt slave children will be swallowed up by the same sorts of corrupt governments the illegal aliens are leaving because we'll become what they are.
> 
> ETA: What I/we (if inclined) can do for these poor people at the border is pray. Prayers are free. God is good that way. He doesn't give us all the money to fix everyone's problems ('the poor you will always have'), but God can fix things.


first of all - this posting concerns *ILLEGALS* - plain and simple >>> your entire posting goes into the garbage by equating "immigrant" and "illegal" >>>> and if your reason is pure semantics - makes it even worse ....

and thinking that the criminals - that cross the border - are immigrants - isn't worth the bother of an argument >>>> you can simply be dismissed on this site as just another troll ....


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

You know my stance. Bangers, muggers, jihadists and now illegal immigrants, are all cut from the same cloth. If I aim for a banger and hit a jihadist, eh, does it really matter?


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## Lowtechredneck (May 7, 2018)

Anyone crossing the border illegally is knowingly committing a criminal act. What are you when you knowingly break the law? A CRIMINAL! I believe however, that the "due process" argument only applies to those legally in our nation. I say grab every illegal, throw them on a prison bus, and drop them back in Mexico. Doesn't matter where they are from originally, they crossed through Mexico. If someone illegally touches out side of the border, give them one warning shot at their feet, and if they don't turn around, shoot them. Otherwise, why even have a sovereign nation?


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Stanley Stupid said:


> That is my worry Camel. Even though our president is finally trying to take control of the situation we still can't feel like we are safe. I dont get how New Zealand gets no backlash for not allowing foreigners to buy land (which I agree with) but when America wants to be strict about who can move here for good people have a big problem with it.
> 
> And my worry was mostly about religious terrorists who aim to harm as many people as possible, but you are right that they aren't the only thing to worry about from open borders.
> 
> Sorry I didn't know people would care to learn about me lol. I am Brett and I am a farm hand and work part time for a roofing contractor in northwest Iowa and southern Minnesota.


Foreigners can't buy land in Mexico either, but you don't hear anyone on the left mention that.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

*This response in some ways is against the group-think of this forum so please do not slam me until you've read and conceder the entire post.*

This country was founded and populated by immigrates. Immigrates often brought fresh ideas and once in a free country they often had the drive to succeed where before their ideas and abilities had been suppressed. Many of our ancestors came here because of religious suppression, lack of economic opportunity, repressive government in their home country, of just the ability to build a better life. Remember Ellis Island?

Add to this is the fact that throughout history countries that severely restricted immigration fell behind economically in the long run, probably from lack of innovation. Also the fact that countries that had very slow or no population increase (generally a highly developed society) also tend to become stagnant. The fresh new ideas required to stay ahead are no longer there.

Now the flip side. read this What If 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America? | Mexicans GO Home I'm not sure where they got some of their numbers but I'm willing to accept the numbers as being close.

---- I accept that we must have the ability to secure our boarders and that a wall is required along with a strict screening process for those we do accept. 
Currently I believe the US limits legal immigration to 500,000 people per year, that's about one new citizen for every 650 Americans per year. Is that enough "new blood" to keep the US fresh and innovative? Maybe not.

Perhaps we should build the wall (and remove the law allowing someone born in the US to be an instant US citizen) and at the same time do what Reagan did which was to give the illegals currently in the US a path towards citizenship. Finding and expelling the current illegal population in the US is very expensive and almost impossible. Instead let them apply for citizenship over a 1 year period, work legally paying taxes for a 3 year trial period. If they prove to be good citizens who commit no felonies, minimal public support claims, and learn English during that 3 year period let them take the oath to become US citizens. If they do not become US citizens after that 3 year period then expel them, no exceptions, no appeals. Just a bus ride to the border of their choice.

If after the 1 year sign up period they have not signed up they will be expelled automatically, no hearings, no exceptions, caught one day and gone the next with no rights. Just a bus ride to the border of their choice. This will allow us to avoid the lengthy and expensive appeal process for most of the illegals we currently catch.

After this process is instituted and we've stopped the illegal immigration and gotten the illegals either out or made them tax paying citizens using things like the wall and a no appeal deportation process we then can conceder raising the number of legal immigrates allowed to immigrate to the US bringing in fresh blood and ideas.

Personally I prefer a lower population density, fewer people around me and in the cities, but I know that without the attitude and ideas many immigrates bring to a country we will become complacent and stagnant. Yes, there are a lot of bad people wanting to come to the US for the wrong reasons but with a wall and a strong screening process we hopefully can weed most of the problems out.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Illini Warrior said:


> first of all - this posting concerns *ILLEGALS* - plain and simple >>> your entire posting goes into the garbage by equating "immigrant" and "illegal" >>>> and if your reason is pure semantics - makes it even worse ....
> 
> and thinking that the criminals - that cross the border - are immigrants - isn't worth the bother of an argument >>>> you can simply be dismissed on this site as just another troll ....


It was the wrong word, Illini.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> Sorry, . . . Annie, . . . I have to disagree with your thinking. In fact, . . . I'll have to call it out as "shoddy" thinking. Immigrants coming here from any where know the difference between legal and not legal, . . . right and wrong.
> 
> There are many other places they could go, . . . some would not be illegal.


Where can they go? What specifically would you say is "shoddy" on my part? Saying that if I were in their shoes I'd want to come to the United States? Or saying that we could offer prayers for them?



> I'm ready, . . . willing, . . . but not able to call a time out here in the states, . . . shut down all in / out travel for 7 days (or however long it takes), . . . put the law and the military to checking every person, . . . period, . . . and ascertaining their status.
> 
> Illegals go to a local gulag, . . . for further processing, . . . send em somewhere, . . . anywhere, . . . just get rid of em, . . . all, . . . every last one, . . . no exceptions.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't disagree with any of that.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Oh Annie, its about so much more than future debt. Our culture is under an intentional assault with an intent to destroy it. The global elitists want nothing more than America to be Europeanized.


Yes I know.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie, let's say you and I went out for coffee. Without warning, a dozen men of mixed races burst through the door yelling such uneducated English, we cannot understand a word, but we do see the glitter of weapons under every jacket.

After the smoke clears, you and I find a scapular on every single one of them. They are the militant arm of the "the caravan."

How would you feel? You have your life. We did the right thing. A scapular is popular in South America.

My point is that this mess has too many facets and not enough time to make any decision but to survive.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Annie said:


> I don't blame the immigrants for wanting to come here illegally. It's a completely rational thing for them to attempt do, assuming their lives are in danger. ......


My post where I suggested you used shoddy thinking comes from this line of reasoning.

Take a real good look at the pictures, . . . depending on the picture, . . . about 7 or 8 out of ten people are males in the 15 to 35 age frame. Very few women, . . . only a few kids.

NOT ONE PICTURE of the husband and wife and 4 kids, . . . 2 being carried, . . . 2 walking.

IF, . . . and I say IF there was a real problem with these people (?) and their lives in danger, . . . shouldn't it be a representative cross section of the population??? It is not a representative cross section of the population . . . it is something else.

Rumor has (can't verify it) that there were over a hundred weeded out by Mexico as being middle eastern types, . . . posssibly ISIS people.

Rumor has (can't verify it) that there were over a thousand of the men who were MS13 (or equivalent in the other countries) operators and an equal number if not larger, . . . of their mules carrying the "goods".

Rumor has (can't verify it) that there several prisons were basically evacuated, . . . and sent join the march.

And even if the rumors are not true, . . . tell my who all of those men "lost their wives and children in the upheaval", . . . but somehow managed to keep their cigarettes and cell phones.

Nahh, . . . look deeper, . . . pose questions to yourself as to WHAT you are seeing, . . . then the line of reasoning will be more in tune to actually what you are seeing.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> My post where I suggested you used shoddy thinking comes from this line of reasoning.
> 
> Take a real good look at the pictures, . . . depending on the picture, . . . about 7 or 8 out of ten people are males in the 15 to 35 age frame. Very few women, . . . only a few kids.
> 
> NOT ONE PICTURE of the husband and wife and 4 kids, . . . 2 being carried, . . . 2 walking.


Okay, I can understand that. Didn't know. Sounds like the same thing as what happened in Europe in 2015. A lot of young men, well dressed with cell phones?



> IF, . . . and I say IF there was a real problem with these people (?) and their lives in danger, . . . shouldn't it be a representative cross section of the population??? It is not a representative cross section of the population . . . it is something else.


I know a Colombian woman (legally here, well educated) who told me what all was going on in her country and on her family's farm. The government is owned by drug cartel. It's just a nightmare.



> Rumor has (can't verify it) that there were over a hundred weeded out by Mexico as being middle eastern types, . . . posssibly ISIS people.


I know, they kind of blend in.



> Rumor has (can't verify it) that there were over a thousand of the men who were MS13 (or equivalent in the other countries) operators and an equal number if not larger, . . . of their mules carrying the "goods".


Dwight, if you re-read my original post, you'll see that I don't want them here, any of them.



> Rumor has (can't verify it) that there several prisons were basically evacuated, . . . and sent join the march.


Wow.



> And even if the rumors are not true, . . . tell my who all of those men "lost their wives and children in the upheaval", . . . but somehow managed to keep their cigarettes and cell phones.
> 
> Nahh, . . . look deeper, . . . pose questions to yourself as to WHAT you are seeing, . . . then the line of reasoning will be more in tune to actually what you are seeing.
> 
> ...


Maybe part of the issue here, and what I was trying to get at in my original post (though evidently hadn't communicated so well for the reasons mentioned) _is that it's morally okay to close our borders even to those who have legitimate needs. That was my whole point.in posting what I had_ But in fairness, I don't think I've been following the story well enough to know these weren't families on the march.


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## Steven (Oct 30, 2017)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, let's say you and I went out for coffee. _*Without warning, a dozen men of mixed races burst through the door yelling such uneducated English, we cannot understand a word*_, but we do see the glitter of weapons under every jacket.
> 
> After the smoke clears, you and I find a scapular on every single one of them. They are the militant arm of the "the caravan."
> 
> ...


That is my biggest fear every single day! I worry constantly about sudden immigrant attacks where they communicate to each other in a language that others can't understand! That alone should motivate every single American man women and child to want to support the building of the wall. I think Trump should start a gofundme page for the wall so we can start raising the money it's going to take to get it started. Yes, yes, before Mexico refunds us for the cost of course!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, let's say you and I went out for coffee. Without warning, a dozen men of mixed races burst through the door yelling such uneducated English, we cannot understand a word, but we do see the glitter of weapons under every jacket.
> 
> After the smoke clears, you and I find a scapular on every single one of them. They are the militant arm of the "the caravan."
> 
> ...


I would have to agree.


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## Lowtechredneck (May 7, 2018)

My opinions are usually considered controversial and unpopular, but there is going to be a war in our streets over this. As much as we conservatives go out of our way to avoid confrontation, you can only push a group of people so far before things come undone. I don't know when or where, but something is going to eventually touch it off. The bad part is history seems to suggest it will not turn out well for anyone. Our society will just implode.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Hillsdale college has an article posted about America’s cold civil war. The author lists 5 possible outcomes. Four are ‘not likely’. The fifth is that the cold civil war turns hot.


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## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

To begin with, there is a big difference between immigrants and ILLEGAL ALIENS. Being against ILLEGAL ALIENS does not make you anti immigrant. To believe that there are no terrorists and criminals mixed with this invasion of ILLEGAL ALIENS is naive.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Lowtechredneck said:


> but there is going to be a war in our streets over this.


There should have been a war on the streets when BLM showed their faces for the first time. Being older, I remembr how law enforcement dealt with C.O.R.E., SNCC and the Black Panthers. Where are all these 1960s "social warriors"? Why, they're all dead, but their potential victims are now all grandparents.

When soldiers used to take an oath, the verbiage they used was that they would protect the USA from all enemies, "those without and within." Now we have stomped on this concept with ever more welfare and sanctuary cities. They should have been shot long ago. The fact that cities like Milwaukee and Chicago have lethal running gun battles while San Francisco gives them sanctuary is an abysmal joke.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Was this post an attack by a flame thrower? Seems like it to me.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> There should have been a war on the streets when BLM showed their faces for the first time. Being older, I remembr how law enforcement dealt with C.O.R.E., SNCC and the Black Panthers. Where are all these 1960s "social warriors"? Why, they're all dead, but their potential victims are now all grandparents.
> 
> When soldiers used to take an oath, the verbiage they used was that they would protect the USA from all enemies, "those without and within." Now we have stomped on this concept with ever more welfare and sanctuary cities. They should have been shot long ago. The fact that cities like Milwaukee and Chicago have lethal running gun battles while San Francisco gives them sanctuary is an abysmal joke.


The phrase you refer to is "I will will protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
That said, any one who would gun down unarmed men women and children at the border is morally bankrupt, in my own opinion. To give such an order to military troops would clearly be what the Army would term an illegal order and it would be the duty of a soldier to refuse such an order.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

You are correct. I used the verbiage dating back to probably WWI. I prefer it.

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/from-within-from-without.2364355/


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

For the record, I have never been relieved of the oath I took, which is one reason why I could never with clear conscience vote for a Democrat.


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

StratMaster said:


> Sure. But we already HAVE resources we are ALREADY paying for which can be utilized and therefore cost us NOTHING. How about all National Guard training now occurs on the border? From every "non-sanctuary" state willing to participate?


Your idea is better.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The phrase you refer to is "I will will protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
> That said, any one who would gun down unarmed men women and children at the border is morally bankrupt, in my own opinion. To give such an order to military troops would clearly be what the Army would term an illegal order and it would be the duty of a soldier to refuse such an order.


Your right of course, my idea of using B-52's not withstanding, :devil: but it will never come down to a conflict at the border. We will back down and allow them to cross as we always have, and in doing as we have always done, we will continue to loose more and more ground to the socialists. Interesting times we live in, arn't they?


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## deserth3 (Oct 11, 2015)

Watched some reporter interview

Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Have you noticed that as they march Flags are being carried? They are trying to get to America for a better life, because their own country SUCKS but not one America Flag. They are flee looking for asylum but flying the flag of the counrty they are running from.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Prepared One said:


> Your right of course, my idea of using B-52's not withstanding, :devil: but it will never come down to a conflict at the border. We will back down and allow them to cross as we always have, and in doing as we have always done, we will continue to loose more and more ground to the socialists. Interesting times we live in, arn't they?


Yes! Big news the other day when it was announced that Trump was sending troops to the border. Engineers, doctors, and lawyers! Big deal, no troops actually capable of securing our border. What a joke!


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## TallHate596 (Oct 24, 2018)

Stanley Stupid said:


> We definitely need tight borders. But I'm wondering, as it stands right now, how secure are we and how much should we worry? Could potential terrorists currently be coming into the country or are things secure enough that no suicide-style Muslims could come in? I know Trump has done a lot of good work to keep them out, but I'm still not 100% sure that some dangerous terrorist couldn't still sneak in somehow.


You do not mind that all of America has always consisted of immigrants. The police must be in charge of the rule of law. We already have enough Muslims)


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## Lowtechredneck (May 7, 2018)

TallHate596 said:


> You do not mind that all of America has always consisted of immigrants. The police must be in charge of the rule of law. We already have enough Muslims)


I smell troll.................


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

The idea all Americans but Indians are immigrants is utter horse pooey BS. I’d say if you were born in the US you are not an immigrant and just because maybe a parent or ancestor was does not mean you are. I immigrated to Ireland that’s an immigrant who made a change the rest are citizens born and raised.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

TallHate596 said:


> You do not mind that all of America has always consisted of immigrants. The police must be in charge of the rule of law. We already have enough Muslims)


First of all, American English must be a foreign language for you - that statement makes no sense.
My ancestors came here LEGALLY in the early 1700's.
I have no problem with any immigrant who goes thru the LEGAL process and becomes a citizen. In fact, those naturalized citizens have to pass a test which most natural born Americans under the age of 50 would fail.


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## Bigfoot63 (Aug 11, 2016)

Back in so. Ga. Surrounded by 11,000 acres of pine trees and Cypress bays... Home at last.
Worry about immigrants? Yes but more concerned with sleepers... Cleaned out a house a few years back that had been rented to some college age kids. Found computers in every room, not an exaggeration! Found note books full of strange " poems"?. They didn't make sense even for drugged out loonies. Lots of loose ammo scattered in the bed rooms and den, various calibers. Now, I know these things do not necessarily mean bad is afoot, but there was something about the way data cords and all the electronics had been cut or yanked out of the walls... And the kids left in a hurry during the night. Oh, by the way did I mention the fact that seval individuals left their ID cards behind... Same face on the card but one had four different names. Turned everything over to the police and after several months of research it was determined... Yes, they were Americans and Muslim... Yes they were coded notebooks... And yes it was a sleeper cell with as many as 12 individuals living and coming or going from the house. 11 males and 1 female. Worry about the immigration problem? Defiantly but keep an eye on the ones already living amongst us.


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## Daddy O (Jan 20, 2014)

Slippy said:


> AGAIN,
> 
> STOP ALL IMMIGRATION TO THE US FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS. Systematically remove all illegal aliens found in the US. All illegals who are currently serving death sentences in US prisons need to be executed immediately. All other illegal alien prisoners should be removed from US prisons and returned to their country of origin.
> 
> ...


The wall is an expensive idea that will do nothing but bankrupt the nation.
If the illegal immigrants are not deterred by going through hell-on-earth like the Barry Goldwater bombing range, then a wall will be insignificant to them.
Slippy, you should go and see the border areas some time. It is some harsh territory.

This is exactly why I say that we should just start using the immigrants.
If you can't stop the sun from beating down on your head, then get solar power.]
If you can't stop the illegals from flooding over the border then leverage them, use them, exploit them.
America was built on the back of cheap immigrant labor.

And before anyone starts saying "9-11...9-11..." keep in mind that those guys came in through airports, and were issued student visas. They came in the front door.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

How is 8 Billion for a wall gonna bankrupt America? 
I do see some valid points in your thoughts thou. I say "NO FINANCES", nothing, but a water bottle and a bus ride back across the border.
I do have a friend that is an active Border Patrol Agent in California, and he says the wall is effective, and a great tool, not the end-all, be-all, but a great tool.
He has seen 13 year old girls and boys raped, and all the horror stories you could imagine.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Daddy O said:


> The wall is an expensive idea that will do nothing but bankrupt the nation.
> If the illegal immigrants are not deterred by going through hell-on-earth like the Barry Goldwater bombing range, then a wall will be insignificant to them.
> Slippy, you should go and see the border areas some time. It is some harsh territory.
> 
> ...


I hear what you are saying regarding Student and other Visa's and many of my posts detail that I am for ZERO immigration both legal and illegal for at least the next 10 years. That MAY give us time to deport as many as we can, euthanize all that are in the prison system that deserve so, and grant citizenship to those that have earned it and will become American's.

As far as the Border Wall bankrupting the nation, that is totally a false presumption. Unfunded Liabilities on the Federal Financials will most likely bankrupt the nation. We can easily fund the wall through'

Eliminating multiple unnecessary departments of the federal government,
Cutting other departmental spending by 80% 
Eliminating aid to shithole countries that hate us 
Reducing freebies to the nation's teat suckers

Hell, Waste Fraud Abuse can be cracked down upon and that will pay for most of the wall itself.

I've only been to Laredo and Nuevo Larado and I agree, there are some pretty tough areas. But we can easily engineer a wall through any terrain that the US has.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Illegal immigration and Government maintenance programs will be this country's undoing. Most come here with little to no education, needing immediate government assistance, Medical, food, shelter, and that's just the beginning. Then, they refuse to assimilate and vote the same way they did that turned their old country into a shit hole. They vote for free shit. Add to that a large percentage of them are gang members or criminals that cost American lives and fill our prison systems. Shut the border down.

Just where do we think we are in this process?



> 1. The age of outburst (or pioneers).
> 2. The age of conquests.
> 3. The age of commerce.
> 4. The age of affluence.
> ...


https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/the-life-cycles-of-empires-lessons-for-america-today


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

Stanley Stupid said:


> We definitely need tight borders. But I'm wondering, as it stands right now, how secure are we and how much should we worry? Could potential terrorists currently be coming into the country or are things secure enough that no suicide-style Muslims could come in? I know Trump has done a lot of good work to keep them out, but I'm still not 100% sure that some dangerous terrorist couldn't still sneak in somehow.


Are you just worried about Muslims? Trump is proving to be the POS I thought him to be. You should be more worried about a wall that keeps you in.


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

They are all the same pieces of shit... remember that.


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