# Every House Every Structure Catches Fire At The Same Moment



## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Would you care to strech your mind & wargame this out with me? 

How could you draw up a survival plan for this scenario? 

Every house, every structure catches fire...POOF! 

Impossible you say? 

Read about the carrington event in 1859. 

The ONLY structures that had a cable leading into them in 1859 were telegraph offices. And the ONLY piece of equipment that cable was connected to was the single telegraph machine. 

Showers of sparks flew from those telegraph machines, shocking people & starting fires. 

Today almost every structure has 3 cables running into it (power, phone, cable TV)...and think of all the devices they are connected to. Light switches & fixtures, electrical outlets, phones, TVs, computers, stereos, lamps, glade-plug-ins, etc., etc. 

Even if only 10% of all structures caught fire, the fire dept. couldn't handle it & the entire block/neighborhood would go up in flames. 

What would you try to save? And how? 

Where would you go to breathe? 

Is anybody up for this challenge?


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

nope not really, and if everything catches fire I would save my family.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

How would you do that?


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Ok, do keep in mind electricity was very new back in those days and often ran on DC power rather than AC

So let us assume that every home in america has a grounded AC system.

Will an EMP affect the electrical power, yes

Will it fry all the electronics in your house, yes

Will it start your home on fire, no. The typical grounding will prevent that.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

If a significant percentage of structures in an urban area burned, then a firestorm would become possible. In that case ALL the structures would burn. Who knows what percentage of structures it takes to ignite a firestorm, but your scenario is extremely interesting. It's one I've never come across before. Great thinking, Ronald!

For those who don't know what a firestorm is, you can read about the firestorms caused by Allied bombing in WW2. They are tornadoes of fire as wide as a city. Temperatures hot enough to melt metal. Winds feeding the vortex over a hundred miles an hour. Even people in deep shelters died.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Montana, you are only addressing the electric cable...the cable TV/internet cable isn't grounded. Nor does it have a breaker box.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Everything I've ever read on the Carrington Event of 1859 mentioned some of the wooden poles of the long lines (telegraph) catching fire. There was an electrocution of an operator. BUT nothing was ever mentioned about the wholesale inferno of buildings with telegraph cable running into them. The long lines (the grid of high lines) would receive induced aural eddy currents that would generate huge amounts of current that could and would destroy destroy the huge and large transformers that reduce the high line voltage to voltages that are distributing the power to our communities and our homes. These transformers would then be destroyed. But the destruction of these transformers would limit the local damage. Here's a real good article.

https://www.lloyds.com/~/media/lloyds/reports/emerging%20risk%20reports/solar%20storm%20risk%20to%20the%20north%20american%20electric%20grid.pdf


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Destroying transormers...again, only electric cables are being addressed here. 

There are no transformers on cable TV/internet cables running into every structure.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I've never heard the argument that a single insulated 16 gauge wire will not only burn through its insulation but also start a fire at exactly the point where it enters your house?

I would argue if the current is strong enough that 16 gauge wire will melt somewhere along the line and pose not threat to a structure..

If you live in a city the odds are a spark may occur and start a firestorm, as I don't live in a city....


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Um... If every structure all caught fire at the same time I guess I would pat myself on the back for having enough foresight to put back some graham crackers, Hershey bars and marshmallows.

I guess a similar scenario might be to think about what you would do if all of a sudden the laws of physics changed and friction stopped working. All at once, nails and screws would become useless and everything would fall apart. You couldn't even get in your truck and drive away because your tires rely on friction to gain traction. Yep, we are kind of slaves to the laws of physics.

So how does any of this mental masturbation help anyone to prepare for an event that might really occur?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I'd move into my storage shed/pole barn. That was built away from my other building and doesn't have power of any type.


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

Not a scenario that I worry myself over. Too many more realistic things happening NOW to be worried about the neighborhood going up in smoke. But then again, I live in Florida, not on the Eastern side of Yellowstone......


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Is an EMP pure fantasy as well?

I'm not seeing that big of a difference between an EMP from a nuke and a CME from the sun.



> Many telegraph lines across North America were rendered inoperable on the night of August 28 as the first of two successive solar storms struck. E.W. Culgan, a telegraph manager in Pittsburgh, reported that the resulting currents flowing through the wires were so powerful that platinum contacts were in danger of melting and "streams of fire" were pouring forth from the circuits. In Washington, D.C., telegraph operator Frederick W. Royce was severely shocked as his forehead grazed a ground wire. According to a witness, an arc of fire jumped from Royce's head to the telegraphic equipment.


A Perfect Solar Superstorm: The 1859 Carrington Event - History in the Headlines


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I've read your article a long time ago when I was learning the difference between CME and EMP. Your quoted article and the article in its entirety say nothing about buildings catching on fire. A CME will most likely affect only the long lines of the grid, as I said before. An EMP will destroy micro circuits of unprotected electronics. I'd say the CME would be worse because it could take years to replace all the damaged transformers. Especially since the US and Canada have stopped manfacturing them and China is now the big producer.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

The more likely scenario for something like this would be more of an out of control wild fire similar to the big one burning up in Canada right now. In that case evacuation is probably the best bet for most people. There are ways to make one's property harder for wild fire to burn which include clearing brush away from the house and the like. However when it comes to firestorms the winds that those kinds of fires kick up can carry burning embers miles ahead of the main line of fire advance starting smaller spot fires which then merge into the main fire. It's one of the reasons why really big wild fires are so hard to combat. There's really nothing we can do until the weather changes. 

However most of the time fire authorities try to give as much advance warning to persons who might be in the path of a firestorm. The prudent person who lives in an area where such a wild fire could occur would be ready to evacuate on short notice. I know that common sense isn't really all that common anymore, but still that's the scenario that comes to mind for me.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

So let me get this straight Paraquack...

You say that *"streams of fire" were pouring forth from the circuits* leaves no chance of starting a house fire?

You remind me of my sister who tells me "nothing bad could ever happen here...this is AMERICA"!


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Ronaldinyo said:


> Would you care to strech your mind & wargame this out with me?
> 
> How could you draw up a survival plan for this scenario?
> 
> ...


 In a fire storm isn't there a also a problem with a lack of oxygen to breath? Didn't some forest fire fighters
dig in and cover up to let it pass over them and they dies from suffocation years ago? 
I red something on that long ago in high school but can't remember how it went,,,,,,

Man that's a tough question


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

That's a GREAT question Budget! Also the smoke involved.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

well since a reasonable answer would just offer another question , 
the only correct answer is we would die.
is this what your looking for?
other wise I do believe safety features were installed in the electrical grid to compensate for any emp or cmp or bfc you can think of that would cause a massive electrical fire no. the grid would shut down a soon as the power stops flowing. am I worried about the whole world going up in flames well dude only if the earth some how exits orbit for a collision course towards the sun do I think this would happen. I see no evidence or fact from your analogy to suspect different.
anyone can us the what if card so what if your giant flame storm comes at the same time massive flooding and rain storms persist for 40 days?
how would I save my family very simple any freaking way I can does it really matter? some of us live so far out in the boonies that the only fire would be our house so simply evacuate the house. the rest can be replaced in time my family can not.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Nope, I'm not looking for any answer...and once again medic, you are only looking at the ELECTRIC grid (not the other cables leading to several devices on every floor of your home).

As I said in post number 1...I'm looking to wargame this horrible scenario to see if there are some good ideas, so I would appreciate it if people have nothing to add (other than it's impossible), please stop trying to kill this thread.

If it's happened before (1859) it can happen again...And to my knowledge, the earth has never changed it's orbit & flew out into deep cold space.

The question I really want to lead to is...*If a solar storm can start this confligration...could an EMP do it as well?*

I doubt an EMP could be as strong as the carrington event...but I really don't know for sure.

Obviously the best place to get to would be high on a hilltop (to avoid the smoke) with no structures built on it...If that isn't available, a wide open area...maybe a park or a lake.

But a lake is likely a low lying area where smoke will gather, so maybe that's not such a good idea.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

no, I am looking at were I live house goes up in flame then I guess we get marshmallows -graham crackers and some Hershey's bars and have s'mores. 

nope I seriously doubt it could happen sorry -that's the best I got.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

But you offer that without any logical reason for why it couldn't happen. 

It happened in 1859...But then they had 1 building in each town with one cable that was connected to one device...and it STILL started fires. 

Luckily it happened while all the telegraph offices had people in them to quickly put out those fires. 

Today, every room on every floor in every structure have multipe cables and devices.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

How about a in ground swimming pool and a scuba tank? Take a long time to get that much water hot enough to cook ya


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

just look to that whole subdivision burning out just prior to Storm Sandy hitting Long Island - not much you can do in a case like that ....

short circuiting and power overloads are a EMP or Carrington Effect side effect SHTF possibility - not much you can with that much energy - spike protectors aren't up to that task ....

but in regard to wholesale fires and uncontrollable blazes I see arson as a more probable SHTF - mainly associated with social unrest and rioting - no big secret that destruction & mayhem is more the agenda than looting under some situations .... and that's a SHTF that's prepable & containable ....


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Ronaldinyo said:


> So let me get this straight Paraquack...
> 
> You say that *"streams of fire" were pouring forth from the circuits* leaves no chance of starting a house fire?
> 
> You remind me of my sister who tells me "nothing bad could ever happen here...this is AMERICA"!


Yes, I know bad things will happen in America. I saw the handwriting on the wall during Katrina. And your comments remind of of *Chicken Little!*
Yes, fires could certainly happen. That's why I have 9 fire extinguishers all over the house and I live in a stucco house so there is less chance of fire from a wildfire or neighbor's house causing mine to burst into flames from radiant heat. 
But if you are going to believe the accuracy of a 150 plus year old newspaper's account (probably sensationalized to sell more copies) fine with me. BTW, the *"fire"* would be a shower of sparks described by people who had no idea of what electricity was. Remember back then, electrical wires were strung out in the open or inside attics or walls on glass or porcelain insulators called "knob and tube" and the insulation material on the wires that were insulated was just *plain cloth*, so yes fires could have started, *even though your quoted article never mentioned buildings catching on fire.* BTW, I stopped looking at the History Channel (your source) as a unbiased, always tell the truth media. So if you want me to believe in your version of a what *will happen* scenario, please site me some reliable articles by engineers or other people with real knowledge that substantiate your claims.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

OK, I'm giving up on paraquack. He just wants to argue for the sake of arguing. 

I'm not saying it WILL happen, only that it's a possibility...and I already answered that fires were started but people were there to put out that ONE fire (not 2 in the basement, 1 on the main floor & 1 in the attic). 

The poole and a SCUBA tank would work...but out of my price range...nor do I have a root cellar. 

I do have a gas mask, which is a plus in this scenario. 

I have an open field and a bridge close by I could walk to. 

Saving some prep's in this scenario would be a MUST! 

If this were to happen, it would happen over a large part of the earth (maybe half) so there would be NOTHING left & nobody would be comming to help! 

I was thinking you could bury prep's...but that wont do metal very good long term & there wouldn't be time to bury them the moment it happens. 

Again, a root cellar would be good for that. Or an igloo made of dirt. Or drag everything you can with you to safety.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I don't argue for the sake of argueing. I said that what you posted, I had never read before. So I can only surmise you are fantasizing about something that is extremely unlikely. I am and will be more worried about lightning damage than what you suggest. But I am will to learn. So teach me.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

OH WOW! 

OK. 

I also find it unlikely...about as unlikely as an EMP or a new madrid quake. And an EMP is discussed here regularly. 

But it is a possibility (because it has happened before). 

I wanted to put our heads together to come up with some "best possible course of actions". 

How to survive it. (first hours, 1 day, 1 month, 1 year).
Saving preps. 

A prep that would be severly needed would be fishing line & fish hooks!!! 

If all the houses/structures in the USA went POOF in one day, the woods would catch on fire as well. 

Our only food source just might come from the water (or under the ground like worms...BLYUK). 

How could you/me/we save plastic sheeting to catch rain water in this scenario? 

What precautions could we take with fish hooks/line so they would survive? 

Things that burn easily (cloth-fishing line-plastic tarp-etc) would be unbelievably valuable because there would be no stores to replace them & there would be nobody comming to help!


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

As far as preps go...How about a 6 inch stove pipe, inside of an 8 inch stive pipe as shielding from the heat? 

As long as it was out in the yard and away from anything combustiable...it MIGHT give enough shielding. 

Throw some dirt on it & you are golden!!!


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Paraquack wrote 


> I said that what you posted, I had never read before.


Yup, it's all my idea.

Nobody has written about this (to my knowledge).

But I always go by the fact...if it happened before...it can happen again.


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## Draq wraith (Oct 25, 2015)

Ok op back then all the place ran on DC ccurrent.
Coils amplified the carrington effect. Today there are not a lot of devices other than TVs that use coils. 
We run on ac that has systems of fuses in place all over the land. Even if it pulsed the grid transformers would blow before it could hit up the houses very hard.
The lines leading to the houses for power have a ground wire wrapped with two live wires I have seen those wires fry out before a large event. Hits the weather hood.
I have seen limbs hit power wires with enough force to spark the power line. I have heard transformers blow up as well. It would be very suspicious to have that many house catch fire now.

To survive such an event well there is a space weather warning if it happens unplug everything with a motor and quickly.
Even then it may spark up some.
Don't count on power for at least three days.
Good luck.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Draq, you sound knowledgable about electricity. 

Even though they did use some batteries, it was a TELEGRAPH cable that caused the "showers of sparks". 

Would you be able to compare an 1859 telegraph cable to todays cable TV/internet cable? 

I don't know the similarities/differences between them.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

The idea of the whole neighborhood catching on fire at the same time is not entirely implausible. Just heard a story on NPR the other day about how these kids built a smoke detector that will work in a house where they cook over open fire, namely for India. See, they have these shanty towns a llot like you see in mexico, miles of impromptu housing built from dirt and Marlboro boxes and whatever they could find. These are people so poor that they built their house up against the next shanty because they can only afford 3 cardboard walls. Apparently fire is a big deal when you live in a shanty town, and once one house catches fire, they all do and thousands are displaced. The new fire alarms would not only beep locally, but they would send out a wireless signal to alert other nearby fire alarms as well so the whole neighbohood knew that someone's place was on fire. 

How is this relevant? In the apocalypse you could be living in a shanty town yerself. Never assume that you will be in your current digs. The event could just be that you are a refugee. So you could conceivably find yourself in that very same situation where the whole place essentially catches on fire at once. 

people in cardboard houses should have good fire alarms.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

the telegraph I think was bare wire no insulation was it not?
today everything is grounded ,insulated, and has safety fuses or switches to kill the power-not only that but if an emp -cme or what ever was big enough to fry all the wires what would happen to the power plant were the electricity is made? what, it just miraculously survived unscathed? I do think that if that scenario was even remotely plausible the power plant would either blow sky high or fizzle pop and everyone is now sitting in the dark.
I mean it would be like trying to power up your solar system with the moon on a cloudy night.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

TV and internet cables are grounded & have fuses? 

That's news to me!


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## spork (Jan 8, 2013)

May not be satellite or cable, but we use the ol' TV antenna. It is grounded. They make connectors to put inline with your cable that can then be put to ground. I drove a separate ground rod for mine. Problem should be solved. My phone line is buried cable as well...


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

nether is fiber optic cable Ronald, but hey never heard of a house fire being cause from the dsl or dish network cable or burning up a house have you? 
like I said before anything anyone says about nope won't happen you sir will argue that it could and use every lame angle to try and make you point with it happened once as your defense?
I do think that with the technology they had in the 1940's and 50's they figured it out not to mention the tech we have today we are not in the 1890's anymore so put the book The ROAD down and walk away, please.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Medic wrote 


> you sir will argue that it could and use every lame angle to try and make you point with it happened once as your defense?


I am not the one arguing. Nor am I defending myself.

You sir, have yet to give a logical reason as to why it is IMPOSSIBLE! Yet you keep repeating it as if the more you say it the truer it gets.

Did you search on "carrington event"? Did you bother to read the article I linked? (or even the quote from the article I posted)?

THE TELEGRAPH CABLE WAS *GROUNDED*!

One guy was shocked when he touched *THE GROUND WIRE*!

Now, please repeat another 6 or 7 times how grounding makes it impossible...because the more you repeat it, the truer it must be!


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

grounding makes it impossible, grounding makes it impossible, grounding makes it impossible, grounding makes it impossible, grounding makes it impossible, grounding makes it impossible, grounding makes it impossible.
how's that? lol
actually that was only part of the argument, today if you read properly (so just to cover it again) we have other safety devices and precautions in-service such as interrupters and fuses breakers burn out's ect ect ect. that they never even heard or thought of during this "Carrington event" that I am sure (but can speak for everyone) that a lot of us learned in a relatively new learning experience called the university you should try it, you can learn a lot at those places.
anyway unles you actually have a degree in electrical engineering I doubt this type of event is really worth the time it took to type this response. 
so good luck to you and cheers.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

lastly an emp works on a different frequency and level and a emp just kills everything that is not shielded magnetically a cme fries the circuits with excessive heat one is not even remotely close to the other.
thanks for letting me play now I must move on.


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Medic wrote 


> lastly an emp works on a different frequency and level and a emp just kills everything that is not shielded magnetically a cme fries the circuits with excessive heat one is not even remotely close to the other.


HOLY CRAP! Medic actually input something constructive! I'm stunned.

Even so...yes, please move on!

I'm sick of repeating that you are always referring to ELECTRIC cable and not phone or TV/internet cable (which do not have transformers and fuses and breakers).


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

And, for the record...I have spoken with an electrical engineer who has been incharge of all electrical jobs for most of the schools in his area for over 20 years. 

At my request he did some research on the carrington event and he was convinced that the electric cable had enough safeguards that widespread house fires shouldn't be a concern. 

However, he wasn't 100% certain, but had great concern about the TV cable.


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## deserth3 (Oct 11, 2015)

Common high voltage electrical construction today consists of a lightning arrestor and fuse leading into each transformer. The lighting arrestor will fail due to a high voltage and drain excess to ground. The fuse fails when too much current (too many electrons) crosses the fuse link.
Phone and cable are normally also supplied with such similar protection.
Now comes the IMO. 
Power lines will drain much of the over voltage through normal safe guards.
Most telephone, Ethernet and tv cable will vaporize. Their insulation is only rated for about 35 volts and the conductor is small and can not handle much current.
Cable TV wire has an 8 ohm leakage between the conductor and the shield which is grounded. But again it's relatively small and will most likely vaporize.
Can your house/city catch fire.... yes. And this should be part of your plan. 
But there are also many other reasons for a fire to happen.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

Thank you deserth3!

It is an unknown. That is all I've been saying from the first post. 

Since it's an unknown...it is possible!


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## Ronaldinyo (May 12, 2016)

This is what I mean by an unknown...



> In Washington, D.C., telegraph operator Frederick W. Royce was severely shocked as his forehead grazed a ground wire. According to a witness, an arc of fire jumped from Royce's head to the telegraphic equipment


An arc if fire jumps from the ground wire, to his forhead, to the telegraph machine.

Can we really be certain a circuit breaker box is going to prevent this?

If a proffessional can explain it to me...I'm all ears!

Please do!


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Ronaldinyo said:


> This is what I mean by an unknown...
> 
> An arc if fire jumps from the ground wire, to his forhead, to the telegraph machine.
> 
> ...


Well, they do make that paint-on electrical insulation - Maybe you should paint yourself down with that?

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Insulating-Spray-12-Ounce/dp/B001CGX8ZK/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1464497478&sr=8-6&keywords=electrical+insulation+paint


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## hag (May 19, 2016)

BuckB said:


> Well, they do make that paint-on electrical insulation - Maybe you should paint yourself down with that?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Insulating-Spray-12-Ounce/dp/B001CGX8ZK/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1464497478&sr=8-6&keywords=electrical+insulation+paint


Haha haha haha...............haha


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## Draq wraith (Oct 25, 2015)

Ronaldinyo said:


> Draq, you sound knowledgable about electricity.
> 
> Even though they did use some batteries, it was a TELEGRAPH cable that caused the "showers of sparks".
> 
> ...


Ok cable TV has an interesting thing trying to help get the signal down the pipe called shielded cable. 
Due to the internet most cable systems had to upgrade to double shielded cable to prevent noise on the system and maximize the signal. As to how it would react well both shields are suppose to be grounded but I wonder if this wouldn't make a crude capacitor in a carrington event. But if its grounded it should not affect it much.


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## Draq wraith (Oct 25, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> the telegraph I think was bare wire no insulation was it not?
> today everything is grounded ,insulated, and has safety fuses or switches to kill the power-not only that but if an emp -cme or what ever was big enough to fry all the wires what would happen to the power plant were the electricity is made? what, it just miraculously survived unscathed? I do think that if that scenario was even remotely plausible the power plant would either blow sky high or fizzle pop and everyone is now sitting in the dark.
> I mean it would be like trying to power up your solar system with the moon on a cloudy night.


No the wire was varnished to protect it from the elements otherwise copper corrodes too fast


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