# How bad could it get?



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Ever wonder how bad things might get when TSHTF? 
I was watching some footage of black Friday in some Walmart's and I thought
these people are crazy. They were fighting over stuff they really didn't need. They
just wanted it. So how are the same people going to act when they are trying to get
something truly important that they need for themselves or there children just to survive?

Do you know what a credit card is used for?
To buy things you don't need with money you don't have.
George Carlton


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Yeah, I've seen the same things on the tube here too. I've heard it said that our society is only three days away from breaking down. I've seen it first hand when a freak storm shut down most gas stations around here a couple years ago. Another great reason to prep, not only for the end of the world as we know it, but to tide you through these little bumps in the road, when the rest of the masses are freaking out.
Oh yeah, credit cards are great if you use them wisely, I buy stuff all the time with mine, but I pay them off in full before the interest in added on.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I have seen that as well. Every year. I stay out of all that. So much nonsense. In an all out grid down it will be so much worse. I suspect if it happens slowely it will take time for people to figure out what's happening but once they do all hell will break out. This will begin the die out. 6 weeks...maybe longer. My intent is to try and stay out of the frey if I can till it settles. Then assess the situation to determine if I need to bug out or not. I am thinking after the initial die out the nastiest and most adept of the population will have found a way to survive so I think it will be harder to survive. So many variables to consider. It will be a fluid situation when it happens depending on when, where, and how extreme. I just try to prepare as best I can, depend on my witts and adjust to the conditions as best I can. One thing for sure. Many, if not most, will not survive in a total grid down WROL situation.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

Oh,, There going to be some class A predators out there


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Ferguson times 10. Plus firearms will be involved, lots of them. If you can survive the first 30 days you "may" have a chance.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

I think it depends what kind of SHTF scenario you have in mind. Currently, many different countries are facing different levels/varieties of SHTF, it's not all about raiding and killing.


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## RoyLanchester (Dec 10, 2014)

Take away our power, TVs and stores and see how quickly we all revert to beasts.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

A lot depends on where you live. IE, class of people. 2004 hurricanes when the third one in a month was predicted to come threw I decided I best go & get more food supplies. Couldn't even get in the aisles where the canned meats were but there were no fights that I could see. I went on & got meat I could put in the freezer & filled gas cans on the way home for the generator.


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## RoyLanchester (Dec 10, 2014)

HuntingHawk said:


> A lot depends on where you live. IE, class of people.


That only matters for so long. Once the supplies start running low, CEO's will kill you for a can of dog food just as quickly as the ditch digger.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Glad I stock kibble rather then canned dog food then. :ambivalence:


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Fukushima disaster...... Japan citizens reacted by helping others without the looting, fighting, killing. I would like to think this would happen in America, but take Katrina for example and what went on there.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

RoyLanchester said:


> Take away our power, TVs and stores and see how quickly we all revert to beasts.


Uhh, . . . you forgot smart phones and internet. I know people who I think would go flat out bonkers if they could not access their facebook and twitter stuff 8 or 10 times a day.

THEY will be in panic mode.

And of course those who depend on their cheeze puffs, doritos, wavy potato chips and dip, and 2 liter pop bottles, . . . for their "sustenance", . . . they will go ape when all they can see is corn and beans and peas on the shelves.

And as an old sailor friend of mine was prone to say "And it won't be a pretty sight."

May God bless,
Dwight


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

It is hard to tell....power went out once and the new yorker just went outside and sat around - I think it is perception and class of people are factors to a point.
But it is perception with this one. "People" will be looking to survival. "Fergusons" will just be mindless as ever and grabbing resale tvs and stuff (which helps!) thinking it's going to be temporary. It won't.
Make those good choices now and I figure that first month will be more about defending your home than having to go out or forage.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

RoyLanchester said:


> That only matters for so long. Once the supplies start running low, CEO's will kill you for a can of dog food just as quickly as the ditch digger.


Just as in real estate, it is all about location, location, location.
Our place is on a dead end dirt road 6 miles outside a one stop light town. Off a side road that is off the highway, and 25+ miles from an Interstate.
By the time all the city and suburb places are looted, there won't be gasoline to get here. 
I grew up in the very large megalopolis that is South Florida. For all practical purposes one 90 mile long city. I firmly believe that God led my wife and I here to this spot in rural America. Why, I don't yet know.


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## sargedog (Nov 12, 2012)

In the times we are living in most younger people don't know how to be WITHOUT. I remember life before internet, cable, cell phones, when we played it was outside till dusk. I am thankful I have the skills to survive that my elders taught me. Most yougin's never had the pleasure of using a outhouse in 12 degree weather. All of the new technology is nice, but there is no app for surviving in the SHTF. You have to have the right mindset and skills to survive, too many things today are taken for granted. I do like life now with all the nice things we have, but I can survive without them.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Martha Stewart is polishing brass on the titanic. It's all going down.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I know I'm and old fart, but does anyone else remember the early days of TV news? My father operated a TV sales and repair shop in the mid 1950's when TVs were just out. We had 4 or 5 in the big living room of our house to showcase them. I remember a hurricane on the east coast where the news showed people raiding the grocery store. They shoveled anything that was food into a cart and didn't bother stopping at the register. A couple of women threw a wad of cash at the unmanned register and continued out to the parking lot. There were very few cars in the lot (I don't think second cars for the wife were in back then) and the people were just pushing the cart thru and out of the parking lot. At the end of the film, a fight was breaking out between 2 women about what was in the one's cart.

Everything I've seen since then seems to reinforce that people will go into panic mode and do whatever they think is necessary to secure what they want. I just hope that the real morons in the cities will attack the Best Buy's, etc. first and leave the food for the rest.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

Bad times can bring out the worst in people... they can also bring out the best in people.
It will be what we make it and hopefully we'll see the best in people.... if not, always shoot twice.


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## RoyLanchester (Dec 10, 2014)

whoppo said:


> Bad times can bring out the worst in people... they can also bring out the best in people.
> It will be what we make it and hopefully we'll see the best in people.... if not, always shoot twice.


Sadly tho the best people are also the ones who will fall victim to the bad people. Stop to help someone, boom dead. Woman in distress, it's a trap you're dead. Spare someone's life, they come back with their friends, boom your dead.

There are no nice lions, shark or wolves. Just the ones that are the strongest and most vicious.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

HuntingHawk said:


> A lot depends on where you live. IE, class of people. 2004 hurricanes when the third one in a month was predicted to come threw I decided I best go & get more food supplies. Couldn't even get in the aisles where the canned meats were but there were no fights that I could see. I went on & got meat I could put in the freezer & filled gas cans on the way home for the generator.


That's because everyone knew that it was a temporary situation lasting no more than a few days to a week. Once the situation becomes long term, all bets are off. When that happens, if there is something out there that will help your chances, you'd better be ready to get to it first and fast.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

RoyLanchester said:


> Take away our power, TVs and stores and see how quickly we all revert to beasts.


Not all SOME... I will bet that cities will be bad bad bad, farm communities and rural areas less problems...

When (NOT IF) it happens..I hope it is an EMP in the middle of winter time... - that way the dying will be over quickly and suffering will not linger for months.... gangs will haver a hard time raiding


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Bad to think about but, I concur.


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## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

Let's just hope there is enough warning for the people here who live in large cities, or folks you know in large populations, to get out
while they can.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Then they must be vigilant. Especially if disease is used as an excuse, there will be a no-escape effort. They want to control where people go and just every single thing.
But vehicles build up outside the city (all around) lots of feds around or other "not of here" looking sorts depending. 
But you will have to watch your perimeters, skies and streets for the earliest clues and get gone before the road blocks go up.


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## ghostman (Dec 11, 2014)

I think it depends on where you live. For example I live only two blocks from the jersey side of the Delaware river and Philadelphia is only a 20-30 minute drive from where I live so I definitely need to bug out because all the refugees that get out of philly will be becoming through the suburbs like mine. However if you live in the country in low populated areas I think it wont be as bad.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Of coarse it depends on the scenario. Not all poeple will resort to murder and mayhem intitially. And if they now the power will come back on eventually they will for the most Part behave. Short term scenarios....Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Floods...They know ROL will return. Short term it's a matter of having enough food, water, and supplies to hold out till help arrives or the situation returns to normal. I am thinking long term. If the situation will not return to normal and they figure out the lights will not be coming back on.....They use up thier supplies...getting desperate....That's when it gets bad. A pandemic, nuclear exchange, then the die out will be quicker for all. But the survivors will be, once again, some of the more adept and probably the more nastier ones. I realize also that there will be good people as well that survives...and maybe we make the come back, maybe we don't. One thing for sure.....the strongest most prepared will have the best chance at life and.......it will be interesting.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> .the strongest most prepared will have the best chance at life and.......it will be interesting.


Remember - God made Man, Colt made man EQUAL


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

This will probably be the only way to handle it!
View attachment 8951


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Moonshinedave said:


> Yeah, I've seen the same things on the tube here too. I've heard it said that our society is only three days away from breaking down. I've seen it first hand when a freak storm shut down most gas stations around here a couple years ago. Another great reason to prep, not only for the end of the world as we know it, but to tide you through these little bumps in the road, when the rest of the masses are freaking out.
> Oh yeah, credit cards are great if you use them wisely, I buy stuff all the time with mine, but I pay them off in full before the interest in added on.


I think the first survival item to go in Walmart is their scooters as so many are to fat to get out of town any other way.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

My neighbor (hope he joking) said something about wanting to make friends with "fat" people. Just in case food became scarce. I wonder how many people might resort to cannibalism if a SHTF event went on long enough?
View attachment 8954

Pickled head


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

RoyLanchester said:


> Take away our power, TVs and stores and see how quickly we all revert to beasts.


Truer words were never spoken. I was on the ground in New Orleans with the EPA a few days after Katrina. I can tell you how thoroughly bestial people become when they are scared, desperate, and hungry. My experience in post-hurricane New Orleans caused me to get very serious about my preparation. Particularly my security and personal defense preparations. It doesn't matter what you have if you can't retain possession of it.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

HuntingHawk said:


> Glad I stock kibble rather then canned dog food then. :ambivalence:


hey add choco milk and let them soak for half an hour and they're pretty good.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> But the survivors will be, once again, some of the more adept and probably the more nastier ones...One thing for sure.....the strongest most prepared will have the best chance at life...


No question about it. A true long term, grid down, SHTF/WROL scenario like a massive solar flare, a large scale nuclear exchange, a super volcano eruption, a massive meteorite impact, etc. would be the single largest natural selection event in all of human history. Only the smartest, most resourceful, physically fit, most aggressive individuals would survive.

Given the staggering amount of variability currently contained within the human population, the individuals that emerged from the evolutionary bottleneck could be practically superhuman (imagine what human beings would be like after several generations wherein only the cream of the genetic crop were left to breed). It would be incredibly interesting to see what particular new adaptations the human species would exhibit under such incredible environmental pressures and change.

In any event, you definitely got me thinking.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

paraquack said:


> My neighbor (hope he joking) said something about wanting to make friends with "fat" people. Just in case food became scarce. I wonder how many people might resort to cannibalism if a SHTF event went on long enough?


Remember to supplement with Vitamin C, ow wait hum forget what I said.
"Go ugly early you'll last longer" SERE Cadre.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Charles Martel said:


> No question about it. A true long term, grid down, SHTF/WROL scenario like a massive solar flare, a large scale nuclear exchange, a super volcano eruption, a massive meteorite impact, etc. would be the single largest natural selection event in all of human history. Only the smartest, most resourceful, physically fit, most aggressive individuals would survive.
> 
> Given the staggering amount of variability currently contained within the human population, the individuals that emerged from the evolutionary bottleneck could be practically superhuman (imagine what human beings would be like after several generations wherein only the cream of the genetic crop were left to breed). It would be incredibly interesting to see what particular new adaptations the human species would exhibit under such incredible environmental pressures and change.
> 
> In any event, you definitely got me thinking.


I think genetically there would be little change I honestly believe its about society I mean we are not far removed from the Civil War era those were all hard men but our society is 180 degrees different.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

People in general are so entitled, and helpless, that things will get bad real fast.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

Are you forking serious, I am about to tear your head off. How bad can it get. SMACK, look at other countries and they still have power and rescources. How bad can it get ? are you for real.


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## graynomad (Nov 21, 2014)

We had floods last year, it was quite clearly a temporary event with help on the way and the entire country's resources to help if needs be, AFAIK it never got violent but people were taking food from other's trolleys in the supermarket and some shops had to limit the amount of (for example) milk purchased by each person or they would have cleared the lot out and stuff everyone else.

If it gets real it will get ugly very quick. 

I'm in the "live far out of town" camp, hopefully the bad guys that are left won't have the fuel or energy to come looking out into the bush.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

In a way I can understand where Jeep is coming from. IMHO, the average person here in the US will probably figure the government is going to come rescue them and will quickly become to weak to be of any consequence. The gang bangers, etc (the ones that don't get killed off initially) will be the ones to watch out for and they will be as vicious as a junkyard dog. They will give no quarter and show no mercy. They are well armed and have a chain of command and don't seem to really fear death as most people. They will have to be handled as rabid dogs. They will be the zombies to fear.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I can get along fine for about a year with what I have. 

If people want to come take that they will get my ammunition first, and there is plenty of that


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

I think Katrina should have been a wakeup kick in the ass for every person in this country. It showed that less than 24 hours passed before leo's were out of the picture and chaos was appointed mayor of N.O. the worst part of the whole thing is that nothing is any better prepped down there. It WILL happen again. This time people will know what to expect and as soon as the windspeed is down to maybe 30 mph, it will be Walking Dead all over again. The sole difference is that they may clean it up faster once the local authorities are out of the loop.


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## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

thepeartree said:


> I think Katrina should have been a wakeup kick in the ass for every person in this country. It showed that less than 24 hours passed before leo's were out of the picture and chaos was appointed mayor of N.O. the worst part of the whole thing is that nothing is any better prepped down there. It WILL happen again. This time people will know what to expect and as soon as the windspeed is down to maybe 30 mph, it will be Walking Dead all over again. The sole difference is that they may clean it up faster once the local authorities are out of the loop.


 I can't understand anyone living below sea level anywhere after that fiasco!!!


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

BagLady said:


> I can't understand anyone living below sea level anywhere after that fiasco!!!


The area is mostly Democrats, what else could you expect? I know, I'm not nice today. But Katrina was the kick in my ass. As a retired paramedic, I sat all comfy cozy in my chair watching TV, assured in my knowledge that the government would come to my rescue if anything real bad happened. What a wake call!!!!!!!!!


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## PossumPie (Oct 2, 2014)

The liberal media would like us to believe the whole country would come together, hold hands, and cooperate. Movies like "Testament" show post Nuclear exchange towns all working together sharing the last crumb of food. Even the TV show "Jericho" showed most people working together in peace with an occasional bad guy coming to their peaceful town. 

The other side would like us to believe that them moment the govt collapses, Mad max type raiders on motorcycles will kill everyone in their way. I think the truth must be somewhere in the middle. Japan is a country of politeness and honor. After the tsunami, they DID work together. In America, after Katrina people were rude, selfish, thieving, and reliant on the system. 

I personally don't plan to share my food with anyone, but I also won't shoot on sight any family who stops to drink out of my stream.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

I think, in a real SHTF scenario, the levels of depravity and violence that the human race would sink to will be shocking to some. Instead of imagining a world where everyone helps each other for the greater good, think "Mad Max".


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## Coolwater (Nov 25, 2014)

I think this is the scariest thread i've ever seen on here. Makes me wish we were all out in the boonies somewhere and could all band together. Sure got me to worrying and realizing just how unready we are, I mean, my family personally.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Mad Trapper said:


> I can get along fine for about a year with what I have.
> 
> If people want to come take that they will get my ammunition first, and there is plenty of that


"One round at a time". :snipe:


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Coolwater said:


> I think this is the scariest thread i've ever seen on here. Makes me wish we were all out in the boonies somewhere and could all band together. Sure got me to worrying and realizing just how unready we are, I mean, my family personally.


Don't worry too much. First, the fact you are doing anything at all puts you ahead of 97% of the people in the country. Second, most disasters are not the apocalypse, but on any prepper forum the conversation goes there pretty rapidly.

I've been through earthquakes, a tornado, more hurricanes than I can count and was inside the WTC on 9/11. I remember urban riots and Three Mile Island having a hiccup, not to mention the Cuban Missile Crisis. Lots of temporary disasters or threats of disasters come and go. They aren't fun, but we haven't had TEOTWAWKI yet.

Keep prepping and you can get through an ever more serious assortment of problems. Try to move yourself from better off than 97% to better off than 99%.


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## CrossbowJoe (Dec 21, 2014)

PossumPie said:


> The liberal media would like us to believe the whole country would come together, hold hands, and cooperate. Movies like "Testament" show post Nuclear exchange towns all working together sharing the last crumb of food. Even the TV show "Jericho" showed most people working together in peace with an occasional bad guy coming to their peaceful town.
> 
> The other side would like us to believe that them moment the govt collapses, Mad max type raiders on motorcycles will kill everyone in their way. I think the truth must be somewhere in the middle. Japan is a country of politeness and honor. After the tsunami, they DID work together. In America, after Katrina people were rude, selfish, thieving, and reliant on the system.


Japan is a nation of one racial group. America is very racially fractured. What has been done to America over the past 50+ years will result in chaos if there is any type of collapse or upheaval. Look at us now. We're a 1st world nation, but the level of street violence in most cities and urban places resembles the 3rd world.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

How bad can it get????

During some of the plagues and famines a few hundred years ago, . . . Europe could have become a ghost town.

Plagues, . . . famines, . . . and just perhaps, . . . a thermonuclear thump that takes out civilization's heartbeat, . . . the computers, . . . they are the things which concern me. 

At the BAD stage of any one of them, . . . I'm thinking the Katrina fiasco will look like Sunday School compared to what happens then.

Earthquakes, . . . tornadoes, . . . even wars are generally local, . . . these things can go world wide in just a few weeks if the conditions are right.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

If I were to look for clues as to how well a community would pull through a disaster, I would look at the civic participation of individuals within the community. I think the more involved people are them more likely they are to pull together in the face of adversity. Civic minded people don't quit being civic minded just because a disaster strikes their community.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I hope you're right. But I wouldn't put money on it. Not unless you gave me big odds. I feel that the average person here only acts civilized because they fear reprisal from the law, once order is restored. Some people don't care, look at the looters in any city any time there is a riot or a big power failure, etc. Go past the few days of food and water the average person has in their pantry, and they get hungry and they won't care about what might happen in the future. They want food and water, and they want it now! By that time, food stores will be cleaned out by the first panicked people who saw the writing on the wall in the first hours. Most stores today operate on a just in time delivery system. They get shipment in everyday. Take out the grid or even the net and the store can't reorder even in a time of peace. Take out the grid, the Internet, or the supply system and you see shit you won't believe. I can even see cannibalism rearing its ugly head if and when the food supply line is down. If there is no electricity, there won't be water to drink or for sanitation. No water after 3-5 days, parents are going to be hearing their kids moaning for water and will soon see them start dying in front of their eyes. I guarantee you that will turn the mild mannered guy next door into a killer to get what he needs for his kids. Gangs will be worse, they have a chain of command, weapons, and don't care about your life and maybe their own for that matter. The big city will be in deeep $hit as the gangs move thru the neighborhoods looking for anything they want/need. The culture in the US is complete the opposite of Japan as an example.


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