# Violence in Jerusalem



## Denton

Israel is in a crisis situation. Hamas is launching mortar and rockets from Gaza. The so-called "Palestinians" and the Israeli Arabs are marching and rioting in the streets of Jerusalem over the murder of a so-called "Palestinian" teenager, which was committed in response of the murders of three Israeli Jewish teenagers. The situation in Israel has the potential to become really precarious, and you can certainly expect the world to continue holding Israel to a different standard of those expected of the creatures who demand the destruction of the tiny Jewish state.

Meanwhile, the "Islamic State" (ISIS) strengthens it hold on much of Iraq and part of Syria, enforcing sharia law. Being true to the tenants of Islam, it threatens to take jihad further, even claiming it will take the fight to Rome. Not only into Europe, the organization threatens to cross more borders, taking the "caliphate" to Jerusalem.

Is it just me, or do things seem to be happening at a quicker pace?


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## inceptor

It's not you. I'm waiting for the 7 year covenant. 

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I have tried to avoid watching the Sunday news programs but did this morning. There was a brief mention of the 3 Israeli teenagers that were killed but the focus was on 1 Palestinian boy that was killed and another that got beat up. Killing Israeli's I guess is ok but a Palestinian? Now that's taking it too far. One mustn't retaliate. Israeli's just need to accept the fact that it's ok if they are bombed or killed. That's just middle eastern sport. But to kill a Palestinian, well that's wrong.


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## firefighter72

Just start listening for the seven trumpets. There's something like this in a good book I remember reading about it during math class.


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## Slippy

The foot of destiny is firmly planted on the gas pedal of our ways. 

"It is not that the world is going to hell, it is that the world is going as planned." Mrs Slippy Summer of 2013


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## Rob Roy

Ah, I'm in good company here.


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## inceptor

Slippy said:


> The foot of destiny is firmly planted on the gas pedal of our ways.
> 
> "It is not that the world is going to hell, it is that the world is going as planned." Mrs Slippy Summer of 2013


Now I like Mrs Slippy a lot too ::clapping::


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## Inor

Things are happening at a much quicker pace now than 5 or 10 years ago. And we have not even kicked into overdrive yet. I find that I cannot even keep up with the news on the scandals in the U.S., to say nothing of international news.

But, Mrs Slippy is right and in the end we win, they lose.


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## Piratesailor

The world and nature abhors a vacuum. Thing are moving quicker because America, via our current admin, has created a vacuum. Into the vacuum, which must be filled, are the likes of Russia, China, ISIS and others. All to the detriment of the US and Israel and our allies. That big sucking sound is coming from DC.


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## Piratesailor

And just an observation. Not sure if it's cultural or for the media or any excuse to riot but notice how the Palestinians act after the murder of the kid vs how Israel acted? Notice that people have been arrested for the murder of the palestinian kid but no arrests for the murder of the three Israelis? In fact the Palestinians celebrated.


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## AquaHull

Denton said:


> Israel is in a crisis situation. Hamas is launching mortar and rockets from Gaza. The so-called "Palestinians" and the Israeli Arabs are marching and rioting in the streets of Jerusalem over the murder of a so-called "Palestinian" teenager, which was committed in response of the murders of three Israeli Jewish teenagers. The situation in Israel has the potential to become really precarious, and you can certainly expect the world to continue holding Israel to a different standard of those expected of the creatures who demand the destruction of the tiny Jewish state.
> 
> Meanwhile, the "Islamic State" (ISIS) strengthens it hold on much of Iraq and part of Syria, enforcing sharia law. Being true to the tenants of Islam, it threatens to take jihad further, even claiming it will take the fight to Rome. Not only into Europe, the organization threatens to cross more borders, taking the "caliphate" to Jerusalem.
> 
> Is it just me, or do things seem to be happening at a quicker pace?


Jacob had 12 sons


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## Denton

Piratesailor said:


> And just an observation. Not sure if it's cultural or for the media or any excuse to riot but notice how the Palestinians act after the murder of the kid vs how Israel acted? Notice that people have been arrested for the murder of the palestinian kid but no arrests for the murder of the three Israelis? In fact the Palestinians celebrated.


Those who kill Jews are hailed as heroes, candy is handed out it celebration, and little children are taught to do the same. "Palestinian" leadership is comprised of terrorists, and they lead inbred people who live not to make better the future of their own children or to build a productive society but to spill blood. Not to defend them as they have human minds that should be able to figure things out, but they are kept in their situation to be used as thorns in the side of Israel. Just as Israel took in all the Jewish refugees who were robbed of their possessions and kicked out of their homes in Arab countries in the region, Those same countries can take in those people who are misnamed "Palestinians."

You know all of this, I know. I'm just bouncing off of your thoughts.


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## pheniox17

and the world will turn its back on the holy land


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## Lucky Jim

pheniox17 said:


> and the world will turn its back on the holy land


Winston Churchill once said-
_"In war, one has neither friends nor enemies, only interests"
_
So maybe the world (including America and Britain) is beginning to think- "Is it in our interest to go on supporting Israel and making our homelands terror targets because we're Israel's friend? What has Israel ever done for us?"


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## pheniox17

Lucky Jim said:


> Winston Churchill once said-
> _"In war, one has neither friends nor enemies, only interests"
> _
> So maybe the world (including America and Britain) is beginning to think- "Is it in our interest to go on supporting Israel and making our homelands terror targets because we're Israel's friend? What has Israel ever done for us?"


and that's what's scary, yes Israel needs to be more active in the world, but let's say mexico and USA were disputing the state of Texas, and the world tells the USA to give mexico back the state of Texas (OK this is apples and oranges) what would the USA do? but the world is saying give it back!! give it back!!

sorry to say as much as Israel is a pain in the ass and we have no reason to stand by her, she is the last defendable point (personal opinion) in the war to end all wars (the war to end all wars is based on both Muslim and Christian beliefs/opinions)


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## Lucky Jim

pheniox17 said:


> ...sorry to say as much as Israel is a pain in the ass and we have no reason to stand by her, she is the last defendable point (personal opinion) in the war to end all wars (the war to end all wars is based on both Muslim and Christian beliefs/opinions)


If Israel was a Christian country I might be more sympathetic towards it.
But it's Judaism vs Islam, and therefore not our fight.
Muslims see Israel as a cancer in their midst and as I've said before, when the muslim world gets its hands on nuke weapons, it'll be "Adios Israel", and the world will become a more peaceful place after the dust has settled..


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## pheniox17

jim I will give you a Muslim prophecy that scares the shit out of me

one will rise to lead all, (Muslims) to deliver vengeance to all that have done wrong in the name of Allah

in their doctrine, WE ARE ALL THE ENEMY... they maybe just Jews but they are in the old testament and we as Christians are descendants of Jews, and we are the enemy, best know now before they come knocking on your door


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## Rob Roy

Lucky Jim said:


> If Israel was a Christian country I might be more sympathetic towards it.
> But it's Judaism vs Islam, and therefore not our fight.
> Muslims see Israel as a cancer in their midst and as I've said before, when the muslim world gets its hands on nuke weapons, it'll be "Adios Israel", and the world will become a more peaceful place after the dust has settled..


The prophecies kind of make it our fight, I believe.

In fact, your nuke vision is in there with the abomination that brings desolation. I have news brother, the world isn't more peaceful afterwards.

(Edited to remove quoted image)


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## Inor

Christians ARE Jews. Our messiah is a Jewish carpenter after all. Their fight is our fight.


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## inceptor

Lucky Jim said:


> If Israel was a Christian country I might be more sympathetic towards it.
> But it's Judaism vs Islam, and therefore not our fight.
> Muslims see Israel as a cancer in their midst and as I've said before, when the muslim world gets its hands on nuke weapons, it'll be "Adios Israel", and the world will become a more peaceful place after the dust has settled..


I'm glad to know someone has overruled God when He stated the Israeli's were His chosen people. So, who did you replace them with Jim? Did you just tell God He was wrong or did it take some convincing? I'm impressed that you got God to change his mind.

Islam has been at war with the Jews since the Battle of The Trench in 627AD. These were Jewish Tribes living in Medina. It was not Israel. But, it was probably Israel's fault anyhow. If they would have just converted to Islam, we would be having this mess. In fact, if the US would just convert, many of our problems would be solved.


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## dwight55

Those who bless Israel will be blessed by God, . . . those who curse Israel, . . . will be cursed by God. I for one prefer the blessing, . . . cause He really knows how to bless, . . . and He also really knows how to curse.

Look at the moslem world: mud huts, . . . sharia law, . . . can't feed their own people, . . . no jobs (except jihad), . . . wanting to live like a bunch of 7th century *************.

No thanks, . . . me and my AR will turn room temperature before becoming *********.

And besides that, . . . there is only one book that has never had ONE thing proved wrong in it, . . . the BIBLE, . . . and it says the Christians are the eventual winners, . . . hands down, . . . no contest, . . . far as I'm concerned, . . . turn the rest of the middle east into glass so Israel can live in peace, . . . lean back, . . . have a glass of lemonade, . . . enjoy life.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Lucky Jim

Maybe the Israelis (and their supporters) think "God will protect them".
Sure, the Jews may have been God's blue-eyed boys and gals in ancient Old T times, but then they went and spoilt themselves by killing his son, bad call..
Jesus said- _"Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)_

As I understand it, heaven is a luxury gated community for Jesus-ACCEPTERS, no offence to my Jewish friends, but if Jews and any other Jesus-rejecters were let in, it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood", so it ain't never gonna happen or am I missing something?..

_"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)_


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## inceptor

So when John wrote Revelation, he was wrong?

John's Revelation, chapter 4-19, is God dealing with Israel. Not once in these chapters is the Church mentioned. There are 144,000 Jewish, virgin, males who will go out spreading the Gospel of Christ during the 7 year tribulation. When Armageddon is over, Jesus returning to earth the second time, there will be a judgment of those who helped the Jews in the tribulation and those who did not. The Jews also will be judged, those who remain to the end of the tribulation, will believe in Jesus and will continue life into the millennial reign, never knowing sin. Those who disbelieve will be held in Gehenna until the millennial reign has ended.


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## Rob Roy

My wife works directly with Israeli investors. More than 1/2 of them are Christians (the other half Jewish) and they speak of the numbers in their country to be about the same. They may technically be majority Jewish, but they aren't by runaway numbers. Slightly irrelevant here, but important for the record.

Regardless, God is with Israel in the end, so says prophecy, so I'm guessing Jesus isn't quite done with them. I'm thinking it's our best bet to defend her, the Holy Land, stand by them til' the end, and let God worry about who gets in to the banquet and who gets the gnashing of teeth.


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## pheniox17

Lucky Jim said:


> Maybe the Israelis (and their supporters) think "God will protect them".
> Sure, the Jews may have been God's blue-eyed boys and gals in ancient Old T times, but then they went and spoilt themselves by killing his son, bad call..
> Jesus said- _"Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)_
> 
> As I understand it, heaven is a luxury gated community for Jesus-ACCEPTERS, no offence to my Jewish friends, but if Jews and any other Jesus-rejecters were let in, it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood", so it ain't never gonna happen or am I missing something?..
> 
> _"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)_


so you understanding the teachings but forget that god gave the Jews a promised holy land 

arguably its Israel, some scholars have made reference to the USA and Australia been promised lands but Israel is surrounded by enemies, and fit revelations very well...

but disregard the bible teaching for a min and go military, what countries in this world are well placed to defend the world with the current threat, at this rate Isis is almost at a stage where it fulfills the prophecy that one will rise to unite all.... there are Americans and Australians fighting for their cause, Iran may even be involved, the Saudi are preparing to fight them, and if Iraq is anything to go by if Saudi are beaten, they will join....

we live in troubled times and what a way to go, stand up for what you believe or not and be known as Mohammad or die


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## Lucky Jim

inceptor said:


> So when John wrote Revelation, he was wrong?...there will be a judgment of those who helped the Jews in the tribulation and those who did not..


Israel wanted to nuke Baghdad when Saddam fired 42 Scuds into Israel in the 1991 Gulf War, but America wouldn't give Israel permission to do it.
Likewise, Israel wants to nuke the Iranian nuke reactors, but America says "no".
So whose side are America on?..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scud


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## keith9365

Inor said:


> Christians ARE Jews. Our messiah is a Jewish carpenter after all. Their fight is our fight.


Yes it is. I hope to God America never turns it's back on Israel.


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## Denton

Lucky Jim said:


> Maybe the Israelis (and their supporters) think "God will protect them".
> Sure, the Jews may have been God's blue-eyed boys and gals in ancient Old T times, but then they went and spoilt themselves by killing his son, bad call..
> Jesus said- _"Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)_
> 
> As I understand it, heaven is a luxury gated community for Jesus-ACCEPTERS, no offence to my Jewish friends, but if Jews and any other Jesus-rejecters were let in, it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood", so it ain't never gonna happen or am I missing something?..
> 
> _"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)_


If one were to actually read and meditate on the word, one will find that Jesus was not rejected by the Jews, but by those Jewish leaders who were owned by the Roman empire. As a matter of fact, it is made clear by the Bible that the leaders could not move against Jesus for fear of being ripped to shreds by the people. The people were not Gentiles.

Still, Jesus showed mercy to the Gentile on more than one occasion while refusing to become the Jewish messiah the Jews thought He was there to be.

Do not even DARE attempt to judge those who were blinded so that you would have the opportunity to see. G-d has not forgotten His people. He made a blood covenant for them, and they are His. Do not even dare think otherwise. There will be 144,000 untainted who will preach to them at the right time and the scales will fall from the eyes from those who were blinded so that you may see.

Check, and you will see that my words are in accordance with the Bible. He said it, I believe it, and in my mind, that settles it.

I stand by my Jewish brothers, and vow to do my best to act as a brother who can see to protect those who cannot.


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## keith9365

Those who bless Israel will be blessed by God, . . . those who curse Israel, . . . will be cursed by God.

If you think America is getting F'ed up now, when we turn our backs on Israel we are done.


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## Lucky Jim

Denton said:


> ..There will be 144,000 untainted who will preach to them at the right time and the scales will fall from the eyes from those who were blinded so that you may see...


I don't buy that Jehovah's Witness stuff mate, Jesus has *already* preached to the Jews and got killed for his effort, so if he couldn't make them see sense, not even truckloads of 144,000 will be able to. 
God's not some wishy-washy social worker who keeps dishing out "second chances", they had their one and only chance (like the rest of us) and blew it unless they turn to Jesus of their own free will..

PS- my advice to my friends in Israel is to *cut your ties with America* because they're hindering you from defending yourself properly.
Without America, you'll have a *free hand* to defend yourself in whatever way you see fit, even if it involves using nukes, without having to seek a permission slip from Uncle Sam.
Remember, last year Obama stabbed you in the back when he sent Kerry to Iran to tell them they can keep building their nuclear reactors!


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## Inor

keith9365 said:


> Yes it is. I hope to God America never turns it's back on Israel.


Sorry Bucco, America the country, already has. Americans, the real people, never will.


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## inceptor

Lucky Jim said:


> *I don't buy that Jehovah's Witness stuff mate*, Jesus has *already* preached to the Jews and got killed for his effort, so if he couldn't make them see sense, not even truckloads of 144,000 will be able to.
> God's not some wishy-washy social worker who keeps dishing out "second chances", they had their one and only chance (like the rest of us) and blew it unless they turn to Jesus of their own free will..
> 
> PS- my advice to my friends in Israel is to *cut your ties with America* because they're hindering you from defending yourself properly.
> Without America, you'll have a *free hand* to defend yourself in whatever way you see fit, even if it involves using nukes, without having to seek a permission slip from Uncle Sam.
> Remember, last year Obama stabbed you in the back when he sent Kerry to Iran to tell them they can keep building their nuclear reactors!


I don't think John was a Jehovah's Witness. He did sit beside Jesus at the last supper though.

And when God said he would bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel, He probably meant everyone but Spike.


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## SquirrelBait

Lucky Jim said:


> Maybe the Israelis (and their supporters) think "God will protect them".
> Sure, the Jews may have been God's blue-eyed boys and gals in ancient Old T times, but then they went and spoilt themselves by killing his son, bad call..
> Jesus said- _"Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)_
> 
> As I understand it, heaven is a luxury gated community for Jesus-ACCEPTERS, no offence to my Jewish friends, but if Jews and any other Jesus-rejecters were let in, it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood", so it ain't never gonna happen or am I missing something?..
> 
> _"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:29-31)_


 Crucifixion was the Roman means of execution. If it had been the Jews we would be wearing rocks around our necks as stoning was the Jewish means of execution.

The Jews sin was denying Christ as the messiah.


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## Denton

Lucky Jim said:


> I don't buy that Jehovah's Witness stuff mate, Jesus has *already* preached to the Jews and got killed for his effort, so if he couldn't make them see sense, not even truckloads of 144,000 will be able to.
> God's not some wishy-washy social worker who keeps dishing out "second chances", they had their one and only chance (like the rest of us) and blew it unless they turn to Jesus of their own free will..
> 
> PS- my advice to my friends in Israel is to *cut your ties with America* because they're hindering you from defending yourself properly.
> Without America, you'll have a *free hand* to defend yourself in whatever way you see fit, even if it involves using nukes, without having to seek a permission slip from Uncle Sam.
> Remember, last year Obama stabbed you in the back when he sent Kerry to Iran to tell them they can keep building their nuclear reactors!


Jehovah's Witnesses? Man, you really are confused - mate.

Again, if one were to actually read and meditate on the word...

You'll find the 144,000 to be Jews, not people following false doctrine. You'll find this in Revelation.

As far as the Jews and the Gentiles, you might want to read Romans 11.

As far as the false and Satanic doctrine that the Jews are responsible for the death of Jesus, any of the Gospels will clarify that nonsense.


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## Denton

Oops. I see y'all already clarified all of this. I guess I should read entire threads before posting. :idea:


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## omegabrock

keith9365 said:


> Those who bless Israel will be blessed by God, . . . those who curse Israel, . . . will be cursed by God.


what about someone like me? i would consider myself agnostic, and not in the scapegoat, i dont want to think about it way. i KNOW there is a god, a creator. i just have to step back and admit that...i have no idea what his role is in anything. for all i know, we are simply an ant farm to him in the likes that a 6 year old has an ant farm and just likes to sit and watch it. maybe there are multiple gods, each with their own universes with their own 'mankind' they watch over. i have endless scenarios i have thought about but it seems the only constant i have found is this...people with faith understand that faith is all that they need. usually something has happened in their life to reaffirm their faith while people without faith have normally had something happen to reaffirm of their lack of.

i also believe in karma which i understand to be a fundamental flaw in christianity


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## pheniox17

omegabrock said:


> i also believe in karma which i understand to be a fundamental flaw in christianity


eye for a eye, love thy neighbor, there are a lot of "values" that are similar to kama, do on to others...


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## Rob Roy

omegabrock said:


> i also believe in karma which i understand to be a fundamental flaw in christianity


I completely respect your stance, but would you mind clarifying this part?


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## PaulS

Karma - in the truest sense is the premise that how you handle your life in the class in which you were born determines your class in the next life. It is not related to the "Western" concept of "you get what you sow" or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". The "Western" concept of Karma is the if you do something wrong you will have something wrong done to you - that's a very Christian way of interpreting the Karmic Laws. The Hindu culture was built on classes of people. There were Kings at the top, priests, warriors, peasants (farmers and ranchers), and the indigents, sick and cripples. Karmic Law dictated that since you deserved the class you were born to so you deserved nothing in the way of help or charity from anyone above you. As a matter of fact if a person in a higher class offered help then they were doomed to serve their next life in your class. You could not move into a higher or lower class from hard work - you were to live the best life you could in the class you were born.

The reasoning behind the class system and the Karmic Law was the the rich and well off could keep the wealth and position without sharing it among the less fortunate. The kept the powerful in power and the lesser classes in control. Although India passed laws that did away with the class system it still exists in the hearts and minds of the people.


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## inceptor

omegabrock said:


> i also believe in karma which i understand to be a fundamental flaw in christianity


Job 4:8 As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it. NIV


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## Lucky Jim

Denton said:


> ...Man, you really are confused - mate.
> ...As far as the false and Satanic doctrine that the Jews are responsible for the death of Jesus, any of the Gospels will clarify that nonsense.


Nothing confusing about this mate..-
Pontius Pilate found Jesus NOT GUILTY, but the snooty Jewish priests talked him into executing Jesus to cover his ass with Rome-

_"Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, 'If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar'
Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified, so the soldiers took charge of Jesus" (John 19: 12-16)
_


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## Piratesailor

Denton said:


> Those who kill Jews are hailed as heroes, candy is handed out it celebration, and little children are taught to do the same. "Palestinian" leadership is comprised of terrorists, and they lead inbred people who live not to make better the future of their own children or to build a productive society but to spill blood. Not to defend them as they have human minds that should be able to figure things out, but they are kept in their situation to be used as thorns in the side of Israel. Just as Israel took in all the Jewish refugees who were robbed of their possessions and kicked out of their homes in Arab countries in the region, Those same countries can take in those people who are misnamed "Palestinians."
> 
> You know all of this, I know. I'm just bouncing off of your thoughts.


What is interesting is that those Arab countries... Don't want the Palestinians. They are the hidden racists to to their own and use their religion to relegate these people to the condition they are in.


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## inceptor

Lucky Jim said:


> Nothing confusing about this mate..-
> Pontius Pilate found Jesus NOT GUILTY, but the snooty Jewish priests talked him into executing Jesus to cover his ass with Rome-
> 
> _"Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, 'If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar'
> Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified, so the soldiers took charge of Jesus" (John 19: 12-16)
> _


Part of that is correct. It was the leaders of the Temple and not Romans who instigated this. Pilate only gave in after he saw he had no choice. The Temple leaders said they would go straight to Caesar if need be.

The Temple leaders feared two things:

1. The people would crown Jesus king and start an uprising against the Romans. The leaders of the Temple were happy with the way things were. If Jesus was proclaimed King (like David) then there would have been war. The Romans seriously out numbered the Jews. They way of life they knew (money, power and privilege) would have been lost. Caiaphas stated it was better for one man to die than loose their way of life.

_John 18:12 Then the detachment of soldiers with its commander and the Jewish officials arrested Jesus. They bound him 13 and brought him first to Annas, who was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, the high priest that year. 14 *Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jewish leaders that it would be good if one man died for the people.*
_
2. They feared the Jewish people who would have followed Jesus anywhere. There were no Christians before Christ. Jesus was converting them by leaps and bounds from the Jewish people. It wasn't until after the Crucifixion that Peter and others were sent to convert the Gentiles.

So condemning the entire Jewish people for the acts of the leaders would be the same as now condemn all Americans for the acts of any administration in power at the time or condemning all Brits for what the Parliament does.


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## Denton

What is also forgotten is that Jesus never claimed to have come to be the King of the Jews. He came to die to pay the price for sin. All sin. The Jews didn't kill Him. The Romans didn't kill Him. We all made it necessary for Him to give up His life.


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## AquaHull

PP-Are you the King of the Jews ?
JC- You say I am


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## omegabrock

Rob Roy said:


> I completely respect your stance, but would you mind clarifying this part?





PaulS said:


> Karma - in the truest sense is the premise that how you handle your life in the class in which you were born determines your class in the next life. It is not related to the "Western" concept of "you get what you sow" or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". The "Western" concept of Karma is the if you do something wrong you will have something wrong done to you - that's a very Christian way of interpreting the Karmic Laws. The Hindu culture was built on classes of people. There were Kings at the top, priests, warriors, peasants (farmers and ranchers), and the indigents, sick and cripples. Karmic Law dictated that since you deserved the class you were born to so you deserved nothing in the way of help or charity from anyone above you. As a matter of fact if a person in a higher class offered help then they were doomed to serve their next life in your class. You could not move into a higher or lower class from hard work - you were to live the best life you could in the class you were born.
> 
> The reasoning behind the class system and the Karmic Law was the the rich and well off could keep the wealth and position without sharing it among the less fortunate. The kept the powerful in power and the lesser classes in control. Although India passed laws that did away with the class system it still exists in the hearts and minds of the people.


PaulS, i actually did not know about that and i have always based my Karma off of the western belief haha.

Rob, i have always been told Karma is against Christianity for a couple of reasons by different 'types' of christians...the one that always seems to be shared is that belief that it does not matter how good of a life you live, if you do not accept Jesus Christ into your heart then it is all good for nothing.

one actually gave me an analogy that said "if you are on trial for murder, does it help to tell the judge all of the good you did before murdering someone?". another guy told me "you defend Christians and that makes us good but it does not make you good with God".

i mean, it won't change my stance of defending anybody. obviously i don't do it to get a free pass or anything. i see something wrong (there is definitely a war on Christianity, especially in the media) and i call it out for the hypocritical points


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## Lucky Jim

inceptor said:


> ...condemning the entire Jewish people for the acts of the leaders would be the same as now condemn all Americans for the acts of any administration in power at the time or condemning all Brits for what the Parliament does.


I know, the ordinary Jewish people have always had a strong streak of decency..



















Jesus had a tremendous following among the decent Jewish people-
_"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25),
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12 :37)
And he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)_

But sadly the snooty priestly classes ruled the roost backed up by their lackeys, and no way were they going to let Jesus off the hook after he said stuff to them like-
_"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean" (Matt 23:27)
"The tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you" (Matt 21:31) _


----------



## Denton

AquaHull said:


> PP-Are you the King of the Jews ?
> JC- You say I am


Jesus was the king of demur. He answered a question by putting the ball back in the court. He knew what their fears were. They didn't understand His true mission, only feared they would lose their earthly power.


----------



## Denton

HAMAS makes it clear it will not de-escalate its attacks on Israel after launching over 170 rockets in a 24 hour time frame, and BiBi has told the IDF to take the gloves off.

HAMAS says, ""There is no place for talking about peace with the Israeli occupation," Hamas spokesperson Fawzi Barhoum stated. "If they want to protect their entity from Hamas's missiles, they will have to put an Iron Dome [missile defense system - ed.] on every home in Israel."

"The person who determines the price of conflict with Israel is Hamas, who is doing so with its capabilities and arsenal," he added."

Netanyahu Tells IDF to Toughen Gaza Operation - Defense/Security - News - Arutz Sheva

Who is giving HAMAS the green light for such activity, knowing Israel is being forced to respond by "taking the gloves off?"

I don't think this is happening in a vacuum. As HAMAS is trained and supported by Iran's government, could it be in concert with something else that is to occur?


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## Denton

Rockets intercepted over Tel Aviv, others strike Jerusalem and Haifa.

The muzzies celebrate - for now.


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## pheniox17

no bodies just a video of what's happening in one area


----------



## Eva Alla

firefighter72 said:


> Just start listening for the seven trumpets. There's something like this in a good book I remember reading about it during math class.


Yes I agree, the time is closer than we think...


----------



## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Hamas "Naval Commandos" try to assault a beach in Israel in broad daylight. Nice IDF naval gun camera footage.


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## PaulS

It won't be long before Israel retaliates - in spades!

I think they should treat the area within 1 mile around their borders with gamma radiation and then let the Palestinians have it.


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## Lucky Jim

Mad dog or America's puppy?
Israel could certainly talk tough in the past, but in recent years she's been hampered by wimpy US admins-

_The Samson Option is the name that some military analysts have given to Israel's hypothetical deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against nations whose military attacks threaten its existence.
In 2003, an Isreaeli military historian, Martin van Creveld, was quoted as saying-
"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. 
Most European capitals are targets for our air force. 
Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: *'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.'* 
I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. 
Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. 
We have the capability to take the world down with us. 
And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.

Samson Option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_


----------



## Lucky Jim

keith9365 said:


> Those who bless Israel will be blessed by God, . . . those who curse Israel, . . . will be cursed by God.
> If you think America is getting F'ed up now, when we turn our backs on Israel we are done.


Is that 'curse' bit in the Bible mate? I can't seem to find it in mine..
Anyway, the last I heard, Jews reject Jesus, so I honestly don't see how Jesus-rejecters (including atheists, other religions etc) will be in heaven,or it'd be a case of 'oops there goes the neighbourhood', or am I missing something?

(Don't get me wrong, as I've said before I've never met a Jew I didn't like, I've worked for two Jewish family firms in the past and they're mostly warm friendly people and I regularly vote Jerry Lewis's 'The Nutty Professor' as funniest film of all time in polls, and I've got a crush on Judge Judy)


----------



## Hawaii Volcano Squad

To a Jewish person like myself, Jesus was a nice Jewish man that was crucified by Romans, he was not the Son of God.
I leave it to God, not mortals or books written by mortals, to determine which people will be admitted to Heaven.
Quite simply, that is beyond our purview.

Meantime here is a huge secondary explosion of a Hamas missile site.


----------



## Alpha-17

Lucky Jim said:


> Is that 'curse' bit in the Bible mate? I can't seem to find it in mine..
> Anyway, the last I heard, Jews reject Jesus, so I honestly don't see how Jesus-rejecters (including atheists, other religions etc) will be in heaven,or it'd be a case of 'oops there goes the neighbourhood', or am I missing something?


Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
Numbers 24:9 Like a lion they crouch and lie down, like a lioness--who dares to rouse them? "May those who bless you be blessed and those who curse you be cursed!"
Exodus 23:22 If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you.

Many people, myself included, feel like there isn't an expiration date on God's promises. These verses are part of God's Covenant with Abraham/Jacob/Israel, and in my opinion extend to modern descendents. I don't feel that Judaism will "get you into heaven" so to speak, but the Jewish people will be saved one day (Romans 11:11 indicates that as well, as does Revelations). Either way, it's not my call, and I will never claim to know the mind of God, just opinions based on His Word.

OT: I know it's been covered before but the hypocrisy of the media is astounding. Three Israeli teens are kidnapped and executed, and it's business as normal. One Arab is killed, and another beaten, and it just shows that the Jews are evil people, and Israel is an apartheid state, etc. Social media is also pretty ridiculous, and even BBC did a piece on alot of the pictures and info being passed around being garbage. A lot of people are finding pictures from Syria, Ukraine, Iraq, or the last Israeli/Palestinian dust up and saying that they're pictures coming from Israel/Palestine now. Jeez.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Alpha-17 said:


> "Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you"
> Numbers 24:9 "Like a lion they crouch and lie down, like a lioness--who dares to rouse them? "May those who bless you be blessed and those who curse you be cursed!"
> Exodus 23:22 "If you listen carefully to what he says and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and will oppose those who oppose you"
> 
> Many people, myself included, feel like there isn't an expiration date on God's promises.


Thanks,those *Old T* verses certainly apply to the young Israel, but many people feel they _*have*_ now expired.
For example Jesus said in the* New T* _"Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)_
And- _"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. *You yourselves do not enter*, nor will you let those enter who are trying to" (Matt 23:13)_










In context therefore, early Israel was under God's protection so that it'd be a relatively stable place to send Jesus to later on.
And when he arrived at least he lasted 3 years and was able to get his message across to the ordinary decent Jewish people before the snooty priestly classes had him killed.


----------



## Inor

We do not need to get into a pissing content between Christians and Jews and more than we need to get into a pissing contest between Catholics and Protestants. We will have plenty of time to argue theology after we all stand together against the Muslims that want to kill all of us equally.


----------



## Denton

I certainly don't mind a rousing theological debate, but to be honest, I didn't mean to start it with this thread. The point is that Jerusalem is under siege and the Muzzies seem to be on the move - again.

However, as the thread has evolved, we are once again proving that we in this web community are deft enough to handle many angles in one thread! ::clapping:: Talented, intelligent, and good looking, we are! 

As far as the the replacement theology, Jim, that is not possible. God entered a blood covenant with Abraham. That is the strongest covenant possible. Even if one side violates the agreement, the other side is still bound by it. There is no time limit on it, either. That covenant stands. Anyone who subscribes to the notion that the Jews have been replaced and that the covenant does not still stand is ignorant of the covenant and is simply wrong. Don't be one of them.

Romans 11:25-27 makes a couple things clear. It is clear that the partial hardening of the Jews is so that the Gentiles may come to know Jesus. It also makes clear that all of Israel shall be saved after the "fullness of the Gentiles."

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

“and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Do not be wise in your own thoughts.


----------



## Denton

Lucky Jim said:


> Is that 'curse' bit in the Bible mate? I can't seem to find it in mine..
> Anyway, the last I heard, Jews reject Jesus, so I honestly don't see how Jesus-rejecters (including atheists, other religions etc) will be in heaven,or it'd be a case of 'oops there goes the neighbourhood', or am I missing something?
> 
> (Don't get me wrong, as I've said before I've never met a Jew I didn't like, I've worked for two Jewish family firms in the past and they're mostly warm friendly people and I regularly vote Jerry Lewis's 'The Nutty Professor' as funniest film of all time in polls, and I've got a crush on Judge Judy)


Genesis 12:3 (Part of that covenant to which I referred)

3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."


----------



## Denton

HAMAS, in the usual manner or using Israel's unwillingness to kill civilians, directs civilians to occupy targets.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Denton said:


> I certainly don't mind a rousing theological debate, but to be honest, I didn't mean to start it with this thread.
> As far as the the replacement theology, Jim, that is not possible...Anyone who subscribes to the notion that the Jews have been replaced and that the covenant does not still stand is ignorant of the covenant and is simply wrong. Don't be one of them..


You think I'm wrong, and I think you're wrong, so let's call a ceasefire and save it for a theo debate some other time, and get back now to the ongoing Israel v Muslims thing..

At the moment Hamas are blitzing Israel with rockets from Gaza, and Israel is airstriking back in a tit for tat strategy like a tennis match rally.
I once asked a Jewish friend of mine- "Why are Jews and Muslims always at each others throats, why don't they simply sit down together and negotiate?"
He pooh-poohed the idea by replying- "Ha ha, it'd be a complete WASTE OF TIME talking to the Muslims because they won't negotiate; they want one thing only-the destruction of Israel"

I'm not sure I buy that; for example maybe if Israel offered to withdraw from Palestine it'd bring peace back to the mideast?


----------



## keith9365

That would be suicide for Israel. If they gave up the area of the west bank, that would make the country somewhat shaped like an pointed hourglass with the narrow part about 8-10 miles wide. An attack into this area would cut the country in half dividing it into two weaker parts to be finished off in detail.


----------



## Denton

Lucky Jim said:


> You think I'm wrong, and I think you're wrong, so let's call a ceasefire and save it for a theo debate some other time, and get back now to the ongoing Israel v Muslims thing..
> 
> At the moment Hamas are blitzing Israel with rockets from Gaza, and Israel is airstriking back in a tit for tat strategy like a tennis match rally.
> I once asked a Jewish friend of mine- "Why are Jews and Muslims always at each others throats, why don't they simply sit down together and negotiate?"
> He pooh-poohed the idea by replying- "Ha ha, it'd be a complete WASTE OF TIME talking to the Muslims because they won't negotiate; they want one thing only-the destruction of Israel"
> 
> I'm not sure I buy that; for example maybe if Israel offered to withdraw from Palestine it'd bring peace back to the mideast?


Argue with God, not me. You didn't know where in the Bible God promised to bless those who bless Abraham and his bunch, and the blood covenant is wasted on you. We might disagree, but it isn't with me you are not understanding.

So, you think withdrawing from Judea and Samaria (I am assuming you mean that when you refer to some place called "Palestine") will bring peace? The so-called "Palestinians" (In 1967, Yasser Arafat began calling the Arabs in the area that so as to make it appear as if they were another race of sort with national ties to the area) have made it clear that not even a piece of land the size of a postage stamp for the Jews is acceptable. They mean to kill the Jews or to make them swim away.

Gaza is a perfect example of the inbreds' desire for peace or negotiation. Rather than taking that land and proving they are anything more than little monsters, they have used it for a position from which to attack Israel.

Remember, there is a reason the so-called "Palestinians" are separated from Israel, as it is, today. While remembering this, also remember there are Arab-Israelis, and they are even represented in the knesset. On the other hand, not even Christians are tolerated in areas controlled by the little inbred monsters unless they agree to live as dhimmis. All this, according to the Qu'ran.

As with the Israelis' preference not to kill civilians, any negotiation or allowance is viewed as weakness.


----------



## Denton

Palestinian Media Watch on Thursday posted a video of a broadcast on Hamas' Al-Aqsa television station from Wednesday which feature threats against Israelis in Hebrew.

"Zionists, wait and see stabbing attacks everywhere. Wait for suicide attacks on every bus, café and street. Wait for the rage and for revenge for Gaza, wait for the flames of the West Bank and inside you [Israel]," the broadcast threatens.

WATCH: Hamas steps up psychological warfare, threatens suicide attacks, rockets in Hebrew | JPost | Israel News


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## Denton

Heads up to the above-link provided; Jerusalem Post has some of the most annoying ads found on the internet.


----------



## Lucky Jim

keith9365 said:


> That would be suicide for Israel. If they gave up the area of the west bank, that would make the country somewhat shaped like an pointed hourglass with the narrow part about 8-10 miles wide. An attack into this area would cut the country in half dividing it into two weaker parts to be finished off in detail.


But some people are saying God will always protect Israel, so what are the Israelis afraid of?..


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## Lucky Jim

Denton said:


> ..Argue with God, not me. .


But I fully agree with God, so there's nothing to argue with him about..
_Jesus said- "Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)_

And those words were from God himself-
_Jesus said - "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but *the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak*" (John 12:49)_

Sorry, but I therefore can't see any "get out clause" for my Jewish friends as long as they go on rejecting Jesus..

PS- if God is still protecting them, why did he let the Romans sack Jerusalem in AD 70, and let Hitler do the Holocaust, and let Saddam Scud them, and is letting Hamas rocket them?
When Muslims get their hands on nukes we'll know once and for all whether Israel is under Gods protection..


----------



## Hawaii Volcano Squad

Until GOD POSTS on this thread stating otherwise, I will trust in him to judge us Jews fairly.

I do not trust the U.N. BBC CNN Aljazerra EU or random people on the internet.

I own a Tavor rifle because God takes care of those who take care of themselves AND because it's fun to shoot paper targets with.


----------



## Denton

Lucky Jim said:


> But I fully agree with God, so there's nothing to argue with him about..
> _Jesus said- "Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)_
> 
> And those words were from God himself-
> _Jesus said - "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but *the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak*" (John 12:49)_
> 
> Sorry, but I therefore can't see any "get out clause" for my Jewish friends as long as they go on rejecting Jesus..
> 
> PS- if God is still protecting them, why did he let the Romans sack Jerusalem in AD 70, and let Hitler do the Holocaust, and let Saddam Scud them, and is letting Hamas rocket them?
> When Muslims get their hands on nukes we'll know once and for all whether Israel is under Gods protection..


Are you suggesting the whole of Israel will not be saved? Again, remember the 144,000, that the Eyes will be able go see and the fulness of the Gentiles has not come. Yet.

You read and accept part of the Bible.

As far as th Romans and Hitler;what's your point? Do you not know that the Jews were cast into what is known as diasora? That didn't break the covenant, by the way.


----------



## Denton

IDF tells 100,000 Gaza civilians to move back from Israeli border ? sign of impending ground incursion

Uh-oh..........


----------



## Smitty901

For the last 6 years now Obama has been sending clear signals that it is ok to attack Israel and he will do nothing. And that is just what he has done nothing. Muslim's clearly understand inaction as a green light. Obama has also provide cash those those attacking Israel .
And they did just get their hands on so material to make a dirty bomb.


----------



## pheniox17

on topic, my Facebook news feed had a 9 news post about a UFO (space junk, was kinda fun)

but 4 different "free Palestine" dick heads were trolling pictures of dead children, woman, "innocents" 

my old man has a opinion on these civilian deaths...

if you seen someone set up and fire rockets, into Israel and the operator runs like hell, would you really hang around?? 

they use civilians as human shields, Israel protects its civilian population, with systems like the iron dome, bunkers, everything they can to protect their people

could this be avoided, **** yes... HOW?? if 3 school woman weren't kidnapped, tortured, killed, then another 3 Israeli boys weren't subjected to the same thing, and hamas attempted to quickly find the criminals not saying it wasn't us, and you deserve it... I would bomb the scummy mother ****ers too...


----------



## Alpha-17

Looks like things are about to get hot, really hot, in the MidEast. With Iraq and Syria down in a Civil War, Iran and Russia becoming involved, and Israel about to go up against Hamas for like the twenty-eighth time, I'd say that we're certainly living in the age of "wars, and rumors of wars. Hell, even in the US that's becoming true. I think we all should have seen this coming the moment the Fatah and Hamas reached the unity government deal. That made the Israelis walk from the table, and when that happens, the obvious solution by Hamas is to try and start a war.

I want to touch on the topic of "Replacement theology" one last time, and I'll be done with it.

If God can break, or at the very least, ignore his covenant with Israel, why can't he do the same with Christians? Why couldn't He say "well, crap, these guys are just sitting around Europe not doing anything, wasting away in a dark age. I know! Let's send an angel to a new group, and try again!". If Christianity is the "replacement", rather than the fulfillment/continuation of Judaism, wouldn't it be just as logical to assume that Islam Christianity's replacement? Or, baring that, Mormonism being Christianity's replacement? Something to think about the next time somebody wants to ignore the OT, and Israel's place in God's Eye.

God keeps his promises, even when the other members of the party does not. He may allow bad things to happen to them in order to get their attention, or draw them back to Him, but He never abandons them. Think about the OT stories, and the times God used the Philistines, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Egyptians, etc to judge His people. This was before Jesus, so obviously the Jewish people were still being protected by the Covenant. Since the Crucifixion, God has used the Romans, the Crusaders, the Spanish Inquisition, the Nazis, and now Islam, to do the same thing, to Judge his people in an attempt to draw them back to Him. Paul himself said as much. Sadly, we know from scriptures that the majority of the Jewish people will not come to Christ until the Tribulation, when the AntiChrist himself will turn on them, and persecute them in ways that even Hitler could only dream of.

Oh, and to any Jewish members of the board, I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a self righteous bastard, and insulting you or your faith by the above. The touchy thing about religion is telling somebody about your beliefs, and disagreeing with theirs while being respectful. Sorry if I crossed that line.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Denton said:


> Are you suggesting the whole of Israel will not be saved? Again, remember the 144,000, that the Eyes will be able go see and the fulness of the Gentiles has not come. Yet.
> You read and accept part of the Bible.
> As far as th Romans and Hitler;what's your point? Do you not know that the Jews were cast into what is known as diasora? That didn't break the covenant, by the way.


Problem is, the Jews have been trying to airbrush Jesus out of the equation for 2000 years because they regard him as some kind of spoilsport boogeyman.
He plainly said "Whoever rejects me rejects God", and that's the deal on the table for every human on earth including the Jews whether they like it or not, and it beats me why they don't like him?

PS- as this is a prepping forum all I'm saying is that it might be a good idea to get Jesus on our side as well as God..


----------



## pheniox17

Lmao this is funny


----------



## Denton

Lucky Jim said:


> Problem is, the Jews have been trying to airbrush Jesus out of the equation for 2000 years because they regard him as some kind of spoilsport boogeyman.
> He plainly said "Whoever rejects me rejects God", and that's the deal on the table for every human on earth including the Jews whether they like it or not, and it beats me why they don't like him?
> 
> PS- as this is a prepping forum all I'm saying is that it might be a good idea to get Jesus on our side as well as God..


The Jews loved Him. The leadership, owned by the Romans, are the ones who feared Him. Remember the times when they wanted to lay hands on Him but were afraid of being torn apart by the crowds? Those were not crowds of Gentiles. After the death and resurrection of Jesus, Jewish history left Him behind. Who was in control of writing history?

Paul was also written out of their books, too, by the way. It is clear why he was written out, too.

What you are saying does not negate the blood covenant, nor does it change the clear future of all of Israel. Why are you so against all of Israel, some time after fullness of the Gentiles, being allowed to see and accepting Jesus? If anything, you should celebrate and praise God for this.


----------



## Denton

Violence has not decreased. HAMAS is continuing rocket fire, even as Israel is striking at launchers and weapons caches they can hit without causing "civilian" casualties. Considering the terrorist tactic is to embed in civilian sites and structures, it is clear why Israel is having problems hitting all the targets.

HAMAS is also targeting BG airport.

More news....

07.10 BREAKING NEWS 21:00 ET: Possible Start of IDF Ground Operations in Gaza Tonight | Shenandoah


----------



## omegabrock

Lucky Jim said:


> He plainly said "Whoever rejects me rejects God", and that's the deal on the table for every human on earth including the Jews whether they like it or not


excuse my ignorance but what is meant by 'whoever rejects me'?


----------



## Lucky Jim

Denton said:


> The Jews loved Him.[Jesus] The leadership, owned by the Romans, are the ones who feared Him...Why are you so against all of Israel, some time after fullness of the Gentiles, being allowed to see and accepting Jesus?





omegabrock said:


> excuse my ignorance but what is meant by 'whoever rejects me'?


Jesus wants MATES..
_"You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends" (John 15:15)_









Therefore anybody who calls himself/herself a Christian has accepted Jesus.
Last I heard, Judaism, not Christianity, was the religion of Israel.
Absolutely none of my bizness of course, but it beats me why they don't want to be his pal..

PS- Is there a religious thread somewhere to discuss all this offtopic stuff?


----------



## Alpha-17

Lucky Jim said:


> Therefore anybody who calls himself/herself a Christian has accepted Jesus.
> Last I heard, Judaism, not Christianity, was the religion of Israel.
> Absolutely none of my bizness of course, but it beats me why they don't want to be his pal..
> 
> PS- Is there a religious thread somewhere to discuss all this offtopic stuff?


OK, since that seems to be where you are getting caught up, let me explain this again. I don't think either myself or Denton have said that Judaism/Jews are Christians. The vast majority of the Jewish nation still rejects Jesus in one way or another. What we're saying is that God hasn't abandoned them, or forsaken the covenant He has with them. Eventually, before the Second Coming, the Jewish people as a nation will accept God (that's very, very Biblical).

And yes, alot of this discussion should be moved to another off topic thread. Any Mods care to do that? Or should we just start a new one somewhere, and link it back here?

OT: Looks like the IDF will be going into Gaza, again. Actually, I think it's like "again, again, again" by this point.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Alpha-17 said:


> ..The vast majority of the Jewish nation still rejects Jesus in one way or another. What we're saying is that God hasn't abandoned them, or forsaken the covenant He has with them. Eventually, before the Second Coming, the Jewish people as a nation will accept God (that's very, very Biblical)..


Thanks mate but did you mean to say "the Jewish people as a nation will accept *Jesus*"?
If so can you give me a few verses so that I can interpret them for myself?

PS- I see on the news that Israel are warning civilians in Gaza to get out of certain areas of the city which are going to get zapped by airstrikes and/or artillery bombardments.
Also, I see Israel are also firing one small-calibre non-lethal shell at certain buildings in Gaza as an advance warning to the occupants to get out before the heavy calibre stuff starts arriving shortly afterwards.
So full marks to Israel for fighting in a civilised fashion, because if civvies do get hurt Israel will be able to say "We WARNED them to get out while they had the chance".
Seems fair to me..


----------



## pheniox17

Lucky Jim said:


> Thanks mate but did you mean to say "the Jewish people as a nation will accept *Jesus*"?
> If so can you give me a few verses so that I can interpret them for myself?
> 
> PS- I see on the news that Israel are warning civilians in Gaza to get out of certain areas of the city which are going to get zapped by airstrikes and/or artillery bombardments.
> Also, I see Israel are also firing one small-calibre non-lethal shell at certain buildings in Gaza as an advance warning to the occupants to get out before the heavy calibre stuff starts arriving shortly afterwards.
> So full marks to Israel for fighting in a civilised fashion, because if civvies do get hurt Israel will be able to say "We WARNED them to get out while they had the chance".
> Seems fair to me..


you got any links for this, I have been arguing with many that Israel protects civilians wile hamas use them as shields


----------



## Lucky Jim

Yeah the *"Knock on the roof' advance warning* has been used by Israel for years.
Sometimes a warning flare is fired from a drone instead, or even a phone call warns them to get out, and sometimes warning leaflets are dropped over a larger area that's going to be hit.

YOUTUBE: _Published on Jul 11, 2014
"Prior to striking a building in the Gaza Strip, the IDF warns its inhabitants using a procedure called "Knock on the roof," in which forces fire a small mortar at the target to indicate the imminent attack and signal those inside to flee before hitting it with full force"_






-------------------------------------------------------

WASHINGTON POST: _*'Roof knocking': The Israeli military's tactic of phoning Palestinians it is about to bomb'*

"What happens before the Israeli military bombs your house? For many Gaza Strip residents, it's a phone call. Sawsan Kawarea, a resident of Khan Younis, said she was in the house Tuesday when the phone rang. She answered, and on the other side was "David," who claimed he was with the Israeli military.
"He asked for me by name. He said: 'You have women and children in the house. Get out. You have five minutes before the rockets come,' " Kawarea said in an interview with The Post's William Booth.
She took her children and ran outside. A small rocket hit the house soon after, Kawarea said. It was apparently the final warning. Five minutes later, a larger missile hit, and the house was destroyed" _

?Roof knocking?: The Israeli military?s tactic of phoning Palestinians it is about to bomb - The Washington Post

--------------------------------------------------------

*Leaflets*-
July 12th 2014 _GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Israeli warplanes on Monday dropped warning leaflets in the northern areas of the Gaza Strip, witnesses and Israeli media reported.

The leaflets read: "To the people of the Gaza Strip: The terrorists and smugglers are well aware that their terrorist acts of digging tunnels to smuggle military ammunition is a target for the Israeli Defense Forces, but they keep working and taking cover near your residences.
"Do not stand still. You are being used by terrorists who will not be by your side when you get hurt. Take responsibility for your future!"_

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=710696


----------



## Lucky Jim

Incidentally America used to drop warning leaflets too, like this one-










Translation by Maki Evans-
_Declaration to the Japanese People:
"Do you wish to save the lives of your parents, brothers and friends? If you wish to save them, read this pamphlet carefully. 
Within a few days, the military compounds in four or five of the cities marked on the back of this pamphlet will be bombed by the American Air Force. Within these cities there are military facilities and factories which produce armaments - the things the military is using to prolong this war. 
The American Air Force will destroy all of them. Bombs have no eyes. As you might know humanitarian Americans do not wish to hurt innocent people. 
So please evacuate from the cities marked on the back of this pamphlet. You are not the enemy of America. Only the ones who are in the military and got you into the war are the enemy. 
The peace America desires is to save you from being under the pressure of the Japanese military. We would like to release you from this pressure. 
Then you can rebuild a wonderful new Japan. How would you like to have a new leader who will discard war and establish peace? 
There may be cities other than those listed on this pamphlet that will be bombed. However, at least four of these cities will be bombed for sure. 
We are warning you, so please evacuate these cities"

Fliers Dropped on Japan by B-29s--Schneider, Nickolaus Ancestry: Sixth Generation: Louis John Schneider_


----------



## 2Tim215

Lucky Jim said:


> Jesus wants MATES..
> _"You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends" (John 15:15)_
> Therefore anybody who calls himself/herself a Christian has accepted Jesus.


Only taking the part that is applicable to my comment on this. The truth is not everyone who "call's themselves a christian" has accepted Jesus as their Lord and savior, The bible is very clear on this. If you want verses then PM me. I happen to have studied to be a pastor if you need any qualification.



Lucky Jim said:


> Thanks mate but did you mean to say "the Jewish people as a nation will accept *Jesus*"?
> If so can you give me a few verses so that I can interpret them for myself?


Lucky Jim - PM me if you want verses and doctrine explaining the return of the Jewish nation to Christ.

Understand that both of these are both very simple yet very complicated doctrines (depending how argumentative and stubborn you are) so this might take some time explaining.


----------



## Smitty901

Obama offers to broke a peace deal.
1. Israel gives up 90% of the land
2. Israel kills off 90% of it's own people
3. Israel bows to their new Muslims masters
Obama announce it as a fair deal that will keep the peace


----------



## pheniox17

Smitty901 said:


> Obama offers to broke a peace deal.
> 1. Israel gives up 90% of the land
> 2. Israel kills off 90% of it's own people
> 3. Israel bows to their new Muslims masters
> Obama announce it as a fair deal that will keep the peace


that is so true, and in 2 weeks time the last 10% are rounded up and gassed... Obama throws a party to "honer the dead"


----------



## Lucky Jim

2Tim215 said:


> ..both of these are both very simple yet very complicated doctrines (depending how argumentative and stubborn you are) so this might take some time explaining.


That's me out then mate, I only do "simple"..
_Paul said "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)
"The more the words,the less the meaning,and how does that profit anyone?" (Ecc 6:11)_

For examp, we know Jesus said there are plenty of phoney "christians" around who'll be going up the spout (Matt 7:21-23) and we know he said whoever rejects him rejects God.(Luke 10:16)
So if and when the Jews accept him they'll be home free!

PS- I often hang in the Able2Know forums religious threads under the name 'Romeo Fabulini', it's a great "free speech" forum (like this one), not under the control of meddling moderators so look in sometime..

a2k Forum - a2k Questions & Answers, Discussions


----------



## Alpha-17

Lucky Jim said:


> Thanks mate but did you mean to say "the Jewish people as a nation will accept *Jesus*"?
> If so can you give me a few verses so that I can interpret them for myself?


Yes I did.

And here are a couple off of the top of my head:

Romans Chapter 11 is all about this (Romans 11 Parallel Chapters), but the key verses are 25-32. Revelations Chapter 7 also touches on this. That's where the "144,000" number people like to throw around comes from. There are also a couple OT references to Israel turning back to God when the Messiah returns, but I can't for the life of me recall them right now. Sorry.



Lucky Jim said:


> PS- I see on the news that Israel are warning civilians in Gaza to get out of certain areas of the city which are going to get zapped by airstrikes and/or artillery bombardments.
> Also, I see Israel are also firing one small-calibre non-lethal shell at certain buildings in Gaza as an advance warning to the occupants to get out before the heavy calibre stuff starts arriving shortly afterwards.
> So full marks to Israel for fighting in a civilised fashion, because if civvies do get hurt Israel will be able to say "We WARNED them to get out while they had the chance".
> Seems fair to me..


As others have said, the Izzies have been doing this or similar for a while. When you actually look into this, you typically find that the IDF goes out of it's way to avoid harming civilians, even to the point of hurting the effectiveness of their attacks.


----------



## Denton

Lucky Jim said:


> Thanks mate but did you mean to say "the Jewish people as a nation will accept *Jesus*"?
> If so can you give me a few verses so that I can interpret them for myself?
> 
> PS- I see on the news that Israel are warning civilians in Gaza to get out of certain areas of the city which are going to get zapped by airstrikes and/or artillery bombardments.
> Also, I see Israel are also firing one small-calibre non-lethal shell at certain buildings in Gaza as an advance warning to the occupants to get out before the heavy calibre stuff starts arriving shortly afterwards.
> So full marks to Israel for fighting in a civilised fashion, because if civvies do get hurt Israel will be able to say "We WARNED them to get out while they had the chance".
> Seems fair to me..


I've already given you the verses. I posted them, I gave you book and chapter. Are you merely skimming and then throwing out canned responses and pictures?

Do you not see the videos offered, where Israel does not attack buildings occupied by civilians? Do you not see that HAMAS is directing "civilians" to occupy military targets so Israel will not attack them?

As usual, some people ignore the continued attacks against Israel but come out of the woodwork to cry for the little monsters.


----------



## Denton

IDF Sees Children Near Target, Calls Off Airstrike - Defense/Security - News - Arutz Sheva



> The IDF Spokesperson's Unit has uploaded a video which shows how the IDF calls off Gaza airstrikes upon realizing that there are innocent civilians in the area.
> 
> In this video, showing a planned airstrike from Thursday, the airstrike was cancelled when the pilot realized that children were near his target.
> 
> During the current escalation, Hamas has openly boasted about the "success" of its strategy of using civilians as human shields, and the IDF has published extensive evidence of the practice.
> 
> Hamas has been encouraging as many noncombatants as possible to "protect" its positions with their bodies.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Denton said:


> I've already given you the verses. I posted them, I gave you book and chapter. Are you merely skimming and then throwing out canned responses and pictures?
> Do you not see the videos offered, where Israel does not attack buildings occupied by civilians? Do you not see that HAMAS is directing "civilians" to occupy military targets so Israel will not attack them?..


Problem is mate, people choose to interpret Bible verses differently, especially if they're from the Old T.
I'm more of a New T person myself because its got Jesus in it, and you know what he said-
_"You have* one* teacher,* me*" (Matt 23:10)_, so who am I to argue with him?

As for videos, they're interesting of course, but not always reliable because both sides put their slant on things, so we should never take them too seriously because Internet-Land is like Strawberry Fields where nothing is necessarily real.
However I will say I'm much more inclined to believe Israeli stuff than muslim stuff..

PS- a Jewish friend told me this joke to illustrate the muslim mentality-
A Muslim finds an old lamp, he rubs it and a genie pops out and says "I'll grant you one wish, you can have anything you want, money, fame, women, a palace, anything!""
"Thanks" replies the muslim, "I wish my Jewish neighbours goat would die"


----------



## Denton

Lucky Jim said:


> Problem is mate, people choose to interpret Bible verses differently, especially if they're from the Old T.
> I'm more of a New T person myself because its got Jesus in it, and you know what he said-
> _"You have* one* teacher,* me*" (Matt 23:10)_, so who am I to argue with him?
> 
> As for videos, they're interesting of course, but not always reliable because both sides put their slant on things, so we should never take them too seriously because Internet-Land is like Strawberry Fields where nothing is necessarily real..


Really? Then, why is it you do not understand Romans is NT.

So, you are suggesting that the OT is to be ignored? Sounds to me you prefer to pick and choose. Nothing said by me or anyone else with whom you disagree has conflicted with anything said by Jesus. However, not having the whole picture will certainly enable one to misquote.

So, from what I gather, you dismiss all of the OT, whatever was written by Paul, and Revelation. Seems to me we have no foundation for an informed discussion.

As far as Israel, it seems you also prefer to not take the whole of the situation. Not sure where to go from here, with you.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Denton said:


> ...So, you are suggesting that the OT is to be ignored?..


Not at all mate, many Old T prophets foretold the arrival of Jesus just like he said..
_"All things about me in the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)_


----------



## Arizona Infidel

Christ on a pony. Can anyone tell me when England became the new NAZI state? Since when did this hatred of Jews become so prevalent?



PaulS said:


> Karma - in the truest sense is the premise that how you handle your life in the class in which you were born determines your class in the next life. It is not related to the "Western" concept of "you get what you sow" or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". The "Western" concept of Karma is the if you do something wrong you will have something wrong done to you - that's a very Christian way of interpreting the Karmic Laws. The Hindu culture was built on classes of people. There were Kings at the top, priests, warriors, peasants (farmers and ranchers), and the indigents, sick and cripples. Karmic Law dictated that since you deserved the class you were born to so you deserved nothing in the way of help or charity from anyone above you. As a matter of fact if a person in a higher class offered help then they were doomed to serve their next life in your class. You could not move into a higher or lower class from hard work - you were to live the best life you could in the class you were born.
> 
> The reasoning behind the class system and the Karmic Law was the the rich and well off could keep the wealth and position without sharing it among the less fortunate. The kept the powerful in power and the lesser classes in control. Although India passed laws that did away with the class system it still exists in the hearts and minds of the people.


 That's a great post Paul. Very educational on the Caste system. Thank you.
Isn't it interesting, in a country that threw off this type of system, (USA) there are those who are trying to institute one(political "leaders" and those on the left) ?


----------



## SARGE7402

Arizona Infidel said:


> Christ on a pony. Can anyone tell me when England became the new NAZI state? Since when did this hatred of Jews become so prevalent?
> 
> That's a great post Paul. Very educational on the Caste system. Thank you.
> Isn't it interesting, in a country that threw off this type of system, (USA) there are those who are trying to institute one(political "leaders" and those on the left) ?


It's sad, but understandable


----------



## Alpha-17

Lucky Jim said:


> Problem is mate, people choose to interpret Bible verses differently, especially if they're from the Old T.
> I'm more of a New T person myself because its got Jesus in it, and you know what he said-
> _"You have* one* teacher,* me*" (Matt 23:10)_, so who am I to argue with him?


The problem is, it seems like you're completely discounting most of the OT, or anything that doesn't appear to be directly related to Jesus' first coming. Think about it like this; when Christ first came, he became well known for his knowledge of the Scriptures and the Law. What Scriptures were those? Certainly weren't the books by Matt, Mark, Luke, or Jonny Boy. In Timothy 3:16, when Paul wrote "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness", what was he referring to? It still wasn't anything in the New Testament. Any time the scriptures are mentioned at all in the Bible, they refer to the OT. It wasn't put together until well after they were all written, and the men who wrote them were in the grave (or in heaven, depending on when you believe the Resurrection will be). If Paul knew that the letters he would be writing would last almost 2,000 years, I have a feeling he would have included more, and left out things that even he admits were just his opinion.


----------



## inceptor

So when Jesus said: _Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." NIV_ He was just kidding?

Or is that just something that needs to be ignored?

So, let's say you let them have Israel. Do you think that will be enough for Islam and they won't want the UK?


----------



## lancestar2

inceptor said:


> So when Jesus said: _Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." NIV_ He was just kidding?
> 
> Or is that just something that needs to be ignored?
> 
> So, let's say you let them have Israel. Do you think that will be enough for Islam and they won't want the UK?


let's say you let the US have Afganastan's and Iraq's oil fields for "free" (they print IOU's on pretty green paper and pretend it has value) Do you think that will be enough for US and they won't want Iran's Oil fields too?

 see what I did there?

My point is sure everybody and every group wants more more more... Christians want to expand their reach that's why they are expanding in Africa to convert more people just like they did generations ago in Mexico that's why the Catholic church is so strong in south America! Islamic leaders wish to expand there message and there members just like any other church or government does... To claim that behavior is "Evil" or "wicked" is BullS***! ::clapping::


----------



## inceptor

lancestar2 said:


> let's say you let the US have Afganastan's and Iraq's oil fields for "free" (they print IOU's on pretty green paper and pretend it has value) Do you think that will be enough for US and they won't want Iran's Oil fields too?
> 
> Aw shit, here we go.
> 
> Ok, do you realize that we get the majority of our oil from the US, Canada and South America? Very little comes from the middle east.


----------



## Inor

lancestar2 said:


> To claim that behavior is "Evil" or "wicked" is BullS***! ::clapping::


Remember that when the Muslims are stoning you to death for being a gay man.


----------



## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> let's say you let the US have Afganastan's and Iraq's oil fields for "free" (they print IOU's on pretty green paper and pretend it has value) Do you think that will be enough for US and they won't want Iran's Oil fields too?
> 
> see what I did there?
> 
> My point is sure everybody and every group wants more more more... Christians want to expand their reach that's why they are expanding in Africa to convert more people just like they did generations ago in Mexico that's why the Catholic church is so strong in south America! Islamic leaders wish to expand there message and there members just like any other church or government does... To claim that behavior is "Evil" or "wicked" is BullS***! ::clapping::


Speaking of the woodwork...

Pure and unabashed stupidity. What else can be said?

Christianity is not spread by the government's activity.

Christianity can't even started to be compared to Islam, unless the spewer is totally ignorant of both. Christianity can't even be compared to the Catholic church's activities of the time to which you refer. You are merely trying to muddy the waters as any good troll would do in a thread.

I see what you did, there, and I realize it is again an illustration in ignorance. As Inceptor made clear, our government's meddling in everywhere from Iraq to Libya has nothing to do with the oil, per se, but about the _petrodollar_.

You pop in to remind everyone how little you know or add. And, yes, I am totally aware of the fact that you are aware of what I am saying is correct; regarding both the facts related to the topics, the facts offered as retort to your assertions not related to the topic in any manner whatsoever, and your agenda in this thread.


----------



## Smitty901

lancestar2 said:


> let's say you let the US have Afganastan's and Iraq's oil fields for "free" (they print IOU's on pretty green paper and pretend it has value) Do you think that will be enough for US and they won't want Iran's Oil fields too?
> 
> see what I did there?
> 
> My point is sure everybody and every group wants more more more... Christians want to expand their reach that's why they are expanding in Africa to convert more people just like they did generations ago in Mexico that's why the Catholic church is so strong in south America! Islamic leaders wish to expand there message and there members just like any other church or government does... To claim that behavior is "Evil" or "wicked" is BullS***! ::clapping::


 Not sure what you meant by that but US does not get oil from the middle east. And our so called wars there had nothing to do with us getting oil.
US does not get it's oil from the middle east that is just more liberals BS. Now China, Germany and France another story


----------



## Denton

Back to the topic, FNC reporter at the scene is reporting the offensive is intensifying. Small arms fire is being heard inside Gaza, while sea and ground shelling is picking up, along with helicopter gunships engaging targets.

Let's see how far into Gaza Israel is pulled, and what happens at Israel's other borders.


----------



## lancestar2

inceptor said:


> lancestar2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> let's say you let the US have Afganastan's and Iraq's oil fields for "free" (they print IOU's on pretty green paper and pretend it has value) Do you think that will be enough for US and they won't want Iran's Oil fields too?
> 
> Aw shit, here we go.
> 
> Ok, do you realize that we get the majority of our oil from the US, Canada and South America? Very little comes from the middle east.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, supply and demand of oil greatly affects oil prices throughout the entire world. You honestly think that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars was about spreading peace and NOT about oil supply and allowing private military complex companies to profit with huge government contracts? :shock: Your joking right?
> 
> 
> 
> Inor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember that when the Muslims are stoning you to death for being a gay man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Except I live in a country that does not allow religion into government laws... well unless it's a christian religion taking away my rights to marry, or equal protection under the law from hate crimes ect ect. in the name of god... but wait those are the "good guys" right? lol ..being muslim is NOT the problem the problem is using religion to dictate law.. I know there are many Christians wanting segregation of gay people or demanding there blood or to force them to repent blah blah blah..
Click to expand...


----------



## Inor

lancestar2 said:


> Except I live in a country that does not allow religion into government laws... well unless it's a christian religion taking away my rights to marry, or equal protection under the law from hate crimes ect ect. in the name of god... but wait those are the "good guys" right? lol ..being muslim is NOT the problem the problem is using religion to dictate law.. I know there are many Christians wanting segregation of gay people or demanding there blood or to force them to repent blah blah blah..


Then, maybe you should take a vacation to Detroit or Buffalo, NY some time.


----------



## Denton

lancestar2 said:


> inceptor said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 6102
> 
> 
> Yes, supply and demand of oil greatly affects oil prices throughout the entire world. You honestly think that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars was about spreading peace and NOT about oil supply and allowing private military complex companies to profit with huge government contracts? :shock: Your joking right?
> 
> Except I live in a country that does not allow religion into government laws... well unless it's a christian religion taking away my rights to marry, or equal protection under the law from hate crimes ect ect. in the name of god... but wait those are the "good guys" right? lol ..being muslim is NOT the problem the problem is using religion to dictate law.. I know there are many Christians wanting segregation of gay people or demanding there blood or to force them to repent blah blah blah..
> 
> 
> 
> Retardation, as expected. What Christian wants your blood, one way or another? Who calls for segregation?
> 
> As far as marriage, that is a dead issue.
> 
> Equal protection? Moronic, again, as you want special privilege.
> 
> Hate crimes? Again, stupid. Crime is crime.
> 
> Islam requires Islamic law; that is a part of Islam. If you weren't all type (poor typing; _there_ is not _their_) and more knowledge, you'd know better. What you can't do, more than anything else, is get over your hatred of God, Christians, and anything that might remind you that you are living in sin.
Click to expand...


----------



## Denton

There I go, getting dragged into a sty with a pig. I need to rethink this.


----------



## lancestar2

Denton said:


> Speaking of the woodwork...
> 
> Pure and unabashed stupidity. What else can be said?
> 
> Christianity is not spread by the government's activity.
> 
> Christianity can't even started to be compared to Islam, unless the spewer is totally ignorant of both. Christianity can't even be compared to the Catholic church's activities of the time to which you refer. You are merely trying to muddy the waters as any good troll would do in a thread.
> 
> I see what you did, there, and I realize it is again an illustration in ignorance. As Inceptor made clear, our government's meddling in everywhere from Iraq to Libya has nothing to do with the oil, per se, but about the _petrodollar_.
> 
> You pop in to remind everyone how little you know or add. And, yes, I am totally aware of the fact that you are aware of what I am saying is correct; regarding both the facts related to the topics, the facts offered as retort to your assertions not related to the topic in any manner whatsoever, and your agenda in this thread.


 um... are you serious? Don't you remember the manifest density? The belive it was there god given duty/right to populate the entire country and to convert the native people into there superior society and to educate them on god. Perhaps it was not the government's mission to do as such so I will give you that.

Although Europe being controlled by religious leaders had sentenced Galileo to death because of his science that went against the church (they later allowed him to live under house arrest until his death of natural causes) They intimidated and used there authority in much ways as the middle east does today.

My point is that such behavior evolved once separation of church and state happened such as the United states being born! SO with that said it would suggest that if you were to separate church and state in the middle east you most likely would have the same effect there by creating peace. Although I get the feeling that there is so much resistance because of fear. I think that fear steams from religions believing all other religions are naturally evil besides there own. Perhaps I am wrong but there is some reason why people like you would deny this logic. Surly you can see my point right?


----------



## Denton

Surely, you read my last post; right? Feeding the troll is moronic; I know better.


----------



## inceptor

Denton said:


> Surely, you read my last post; right? Feeding the troll is moronic; I know better.


----------



## inceptor

lancestar2 said:


> um... are you serious? Don't you remember the manifest density? The belive it was there god given duty/right to populate the entire country and to convert the native people into there superior society and to educate them on god. Perhaps it was not the government's mission to do as such so I will give you that.
> 
> Although Europe being controlled by religious leaders had sentenced Galileo to death because of his science that went against the church (they later allowed him to live under house arrest until his death of natural causes) They intimidated and used there authority in much ways as the middle east does today.
> 
> My point is that such behavior evolved once separation of church and state happened such as the United states being born! SO with that said it would suggest that if you were to separate church and state in the middle east you most likely would have the same effect there by creating peace. Although I get the feeling that there is so much resistance because of fear. I think that fear steams from religions believing all other religions are naturally evil besides there own. Perhaps I am wrong but there is some reason why people like you would deny this logic. Surly you can see my point right?


There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity.

Ignorance: This is nothing more than the lack of knowledge. Cured with education.

Stupidity: This is an incurable disease. There is no known antidote.


----------



## lancestar2

Denton said:


> lancestar2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Retardation, as expected. What Christian wants your blood, one way or another? Who calls for segregation?
> 
> As far as marriage, that is a dead issue.
> 
> Equal protection? Moronic, again, as you want special privilege.
> 
> Hate crimes? Again, stupid. Crime is crime.
> 
> Islam requires Islamic law; that is a part of Islam. If you weren't all type (poor typing; _there_ is not _their_) and more knowledge, you'd know better. What you can't do, more than anything else, is get over your hatred of God, Christians, and anything that might remind you that you are living in sin.
> 
> 
> 
> Pastor Charles Worley calls for segregation, Pastor Robert Anderson says homosexuality is worthy of death, and anybody who supports them is also worthy of death. Just to name a few there are many more simply search the internet if your interested in finding more who think in such a manor.
> 
> But in regards to your post about me trolling you, just because I have different belifs and opinions than you does not mean I am "trolling you" if you don't wish to discuss it then simply have a lovely day and don't respond if you wish. I always enjoy discussing issues it's how I learn and get more insight on topics and issues. I think you may be surrounding your self to much with people that think just like you down to a T. Having some diversity helps one think outside of the box a touch... doesn't mean you have to go all crazy and go way out there.
> 
> Also in regards to me "hating god" I actually have started reading up on more loving and accepting( accepting of the lgbt community) churches such as the Lutheran church, Episcopal church, United Church of Christ, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Community of Christ, Metropolitan Community Church, Old Catholic Church, and Presbyterianism. I really am surprised at how many churches and groups there are that are so accepting. So no your statement claiming I am living in sin is false or at best only a statement based on your specific religion (which I would be curious as to what church you identify with) There are many christian churches that don't view it as a sin. So my hatred of god is not as such, I was just born in the wrong religion.
> 
> but I will say what you view as my hatred I also see in you as you having hatred for the Muslim faith. I think it's natural instinct to hate/dislike the group that wants to change/kill/convert you. The fact they are over seas and not posing a intimidate threat gives me peace of mind while Christians are at home spewing there hate and calls for segregation, and death to minorites ect ect.
> 
> No I don't have hatred for god lets get the clear right now... I have anger towards the fools that claim to speak for god and claim they know what he wants when they are preaching hate and anger themselves. But this is going a bit off topic so I will leave it at that.. Denton if you wish to disucss this further feel free to PM me and we can talk there
Click to expand...


----------



## Badcompany

You also have to remember these bastards are pushing there sharia law shit up in the Dakotas and Wyoming as well. I remember awhile back they were beating the shit out of people coming out of bars and such.


----------



## pheniox17

Enough said


----------



## Lucky Jim

lancestar2 said:


> ..Christians want to expand their reach that's why they are expanding in Africa to convert more people just like they did generations ago in Mexico that's why the Catholic church is so strong in south America!..


So what? Jesus said _"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation" (Mark 16:15)_
Heck if we hadn't civilised the Americas they'd still be scalping and eating each other..

_The Pilgrim Fathers make landfall in the New World_









_The Spanish Conquistadores arrive in South America- 
"In the name of their Imperial Highnesses King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, we have come to civilise your heathen asses!"_


----------



## Lucky Jim

lancestar2 said:


> ..I was just born in the wrong religion...


Sorry mate, I'm new to this thread, what religion are you?
And if you don't like it you can shop around for a new one just like everybody else can't you?


----------



## Denton

An Egyptian brokered cease fire has been turned down by the so-called Palestinians. The Israelis were torn over it, but would have agreed to it.

What's next.


----------



## pheniox17

Denton said:


> An Egyptian brokered cease fire has been turned down by the so-called Palestinians. The Israelis were torn over it, but would have agreed to it.
> 
> What's next.


more proof that Israel is sick of war


----------



## pheniox17

A picture says 1000 words 

#****Palestine


----------



## Inor

Agreed #puckFalestine


----------



## Lucky Jim

Israel drop leaflets in Gaza urging civilians to get big bucks rewards for turning in Hamas terrorists, and maybe that's working to some extent, I don't know.
Maybe the civvies could be given a gentle prod if Israel knocked out the power plant (or power lines and substations) that supply power to Gaza.
That way more and more civvies would get fed up with Hamas and seriously think about turning them in for getting Gaza blacked out into the stone age.


----------



## slewfoot

Watching this closely, we are traveling there in October.


----------



## Denton

slewfoot said:


> Watching this closely, we are traveling there in October.


Slew, make sure to have plenty of shekels in case things go horribly wrong. In the past, Americans have been caught "penniless" when card machines went down.


----------



## Denton

Israel resumes operations.

Israel resumes airstrikes on Gaza after Hamas rejects cease-fire proposal | Fox News

I suppose there are some bright sides to this.

The Arabs have tested their newer rockets, and have found they can reach as far as Haifa with them. Israel, on the other hand, has been blasting launchers and caches, as well as getting the opportunity to put the Iron Dome to a decent test.


----------



## Denton

"A knock on the roof."

The first video shows the targeted building from a video camera across the street. First, the knock on the roof, to give notice to the inhabitants to un-ass the building.
Fifteen minutes later, the real strike to the building.

The second video shows it from the viewpoint of the fighter pilot.

Israel Matzav: What the 'knock on the roof' looks like from ground level


----------



## Denton

IDF confirms, it has started ground operations in Gaza.

Are thy being drawn to Gaza to be attacked from another side?


----------



## PaulS

I doubt that very much - the Israelis are very good and very well trained.


----------



## AquaHull

Denton said:


> IDF confirms, it has started ground operations in Gaza.
> 
> Are thy being drawn to Gaza to be attacked from another side?


Half the Holy City will fall.

That couldn't have happened until after Israel captured it. So that is a prophecy awaiting fulfillment. Maybe we're seeing it live on TV.


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## Denton

PaulS said:


> I doubt that very much - the Israelis are very good and very well trained.


I don't mean on the ground in Gaza; I mean some sort of strike from somewhere else.

Hezbollah, for example, has been resupplied with updated systems by Iran since 2006.

I still feel Iran is pulling strings.


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## Lucky Jim

I've just seen the latest news reports from Gaza, a lot of the city is blacked out but there are still too many lights for my liking.
If I was the Israeli commander I'd have blown the electricity substations to black out the city 100% before sending the troops in, because the Israeli forces have got night vision devices and Hamas probably haven't. 
Being able to see in the dark kinda gives you an edge..


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## Inor

Denton said:


> I don't mean on the ground in Gaza; I mean some sort of strike from somewhere else.
> 
> Hezbollah, for example, has been resupplied with updated systems by Iran since 2006.
> 
> I still feel Iran is pulling strings.


Ever since Entebbe, I have viewed the IDF as some kind of superman army. Their loss/stalemate in Lebanon a decade or so ago was due to political weakness in their Knesset, not unlike our own Vietnam or Iraq now. Their Knesset seems pretty strong now.

So I expect if Iran decides to attack from the north, the IDF will do what is necessary to repel it regardless of what the U.N. thinks.


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## rim

IDF has a hard on for Hamas tunnels and will blowing them in place and/or sending in tunnel teams plus robots, then blowing them.


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## inceptor

I just got this today and thought I would share.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. NIV


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## Denton

Amid protests and Erdogan's rhetoric, Israel brings home families of diplomats in Turkey | JPost | Israel News

Erdogan accuses Israel of "systematic genocide" and allows for protesters attacking Israeli embassy.



> One official said it was ironic that Turkey wants to now play a role in mediating a cease-fire.


I'm sure a nation of the old Persian empire can be really impartial, right?


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## Alpha-17

I hope I'm not resurrecting a thread people hoped had died, but I thought this was a very interesting story:



> *Hamas Terrorists Complain, 'Their God Changes The Paths Of Our Rockets In Mid-Air'*
> 
> As the conflict between Israel and Gaza escalates, Islamic terrorists are finding it more difficult to fire rockets towards Jerusalem, and the reason why is sure to give you chills.
> 
> Since Israel's Iron Dome only works 90 percent of the time, Israeli citizens have been desperately praying for a miracle - and they may have had their prayers answered.
> 
> Headlines in Israel claim the Jews are being protected from Hamas missiles by nothing less than the hand of God himself, but the claims actually stemmed from Hamas terrorists after an invisible force has stifled them from carrying out their attacks.


Full article: Hamas Terrorists Complain, ?Their God Changes The Paths Of Our Rockets In Mid-Air? ? Universal Free Press


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## Lucky Jim

As a longtime wargamer/armchair strategist I think both Hamas and Israel are playing it badly.
For a start, Hamas's rockets are a complete waste of time because they rarely hit anything!
And Israel's ground invasion has as its objective- "the destruction of Hamas tunnels".
But when Israel finally pulls out, Hamas will simply dig new tunnels and it'll all be back to square one with nothing achieved by either side!


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## Smitty901

Hamas fires rockets from schools and hospitals at schools and hospital and there is not a word said. After many attacks and no other option Israel fires back, instant call for war crimes. Not a word from Obama and Kerry when Hamas was firing rockets everyday at Israel, but let Israel try to pocket it's self they jump on them.


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## keith9365

I wish we would stand back and say do what you have to to protect your people.


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## Alpha-17

Lucky Jim said:


> As a longtime wargamer/armchair strategist I think both Hamas and Israel are playing it badly.
> For a start, Hamas's rockets are a complete waste of time because they rarely hit anything!
> And Israel's ground invasion has as its objective- "the destruction of Hamas tunnels".
> But when Israel finally pulls out, Hamas will simply dig new tunnels and it'll all be back to square one with nothing achieved by either side!


For Israel any way, they would have destroyed the Hamas tunnels already in existence, and prevent the large scale sort of terror attacks that could be launched from them. It's a short term fix, and will probably result in another war in 2-3 years, but that's better than a terror attack in 2-3 months, and another Gaza war.


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## Smitty901

Israel has dam good intel. They knew of the tunnels, they had underestimated how many . Israel won't make that mistake twice.
They will be watch closer and you can bet they have every new one mapped.


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