# Trump calls Syria chemical attack 'atrocious,' - U.S. to make 'majorDecisions'InHours



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

Front page news today on Fox News and other news outlets:

Trump calls Syria chemical attack 'atrocious,' says U.S. to make 'major decisions' in coming hours
Trump calls Syria chemical attack 'atrocious,' says U.S. to make 'major decisions' in coming hours | Fox News

What do you think? Continue down the ineffective path of sanctions, expelling diplomats and strongly worded tweets towards countries that consistently commit atrocities and acts well outside established norms and principles that are universal? Or finally get fed up and punch the country(s) in the nose, regardless of who they are just as you would a schoolyard bully who continues to take your lunch money everyday despite you insulting him and threatening him?


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Pull our kids out of that hellhole. If the muslims want to kill each other, let them. They've been killing each other for a thousand years, Trump isn't going to stop them. There isn't one guy over there that I would want my son to die for. If Russia wants it, let them have it. One less headache for us. Maybe this makes me a racist by modern standards. So be it.


----------



## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

I agree with at @sideKahr


----------



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

I get that many (but not all) of us on this forum are isolationists.

I had a good idea how a good portion of the responses would go but I am looking to be surprised. I'm sure there are some non isolationists out there (and even some isolationists) on this forum who are willing to stand up for the greater good of humanity (using chemical weapons on innocents or otherwise is a universal no no) even if it is NIMBY (not in my back yard). Especially since one of these countries just brazenly chemically attacked an allies innocent civilians on their own soil.

I am surprised however that even the isolationists appear to be in disagreement with President Trump who stated this:

"We are very concerned, when a thing like that can happen, this *is about humanity*. We're talking about humanity. And it *can't be allowed to happen*," he added."

Should those of us who are isolationist continue to hold the isolationist view in regards to taking out Hitler who was gassing millions of Jews in camps because, after all, it wasn't in our backyard and we are not Jews?

What should we do with modern day Hitler's, or should we just continue to NIMBY it, after all, we dont live in the middle east now, just as we didnt live in Germany and are not Jews in Hitlers time?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out- 
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out- 
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me.


----------



## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Iranians killed in strike ?


----------



## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

@SanAntonioPrepper. I agree that decent human beings should be outraged at the use of poison gas and want to take action against those who use such weapons. Where I take exception is, WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE US? The rest of the world has been free riding on our backs ever since WW2 ended. ENOUGH! Time for the freeloaders to step up and spend a little blood and treasure for a change. The Saudis need to step up once in a while. France and Germany are real good at running their mouths too, but not much on putting up. Everyone wants a seat at the big-boys table........... except when it comes time to pay the bill.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

This will start the last war mankind will ever see, says the Russians. If one of their soldiers gets killed by a US bomb. 

My question is what are we even fighting over?? Don't we all want to see isis killed off. So work together get the job done for fricken once and pull out. Guess isis will get what they want in the long run total destruction so they can have their caliphate.

The civilians should have stood up for themselves a long time ago. Hiding in the basement just got them killed anyway.


----------



## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

I know Israel has been updating their civilian civil defense preps - hope they have the gas mask part ready to roll - between Russia and Iran there won't be a gas warfare shortage ....


----------



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

Chiefster23 said:


> @SanAntonioPrepper. I agree that decent human beings should be outraged at the use of poison gas and want to take action against those who use such weapons. Where I take exception is, WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE US? The rest of the world has been free riding on our backs ever since WW2 ended. ENOUGH! Time for the freeloaders to step up and spend a little blood and treasure for a change. The Saudis need to step up once in a while. France and Germany are real good at running their mouths too, but not much on putting up. Everyone wants a seat at the big-boys table........... except when it comes time to pay the bill.


Cheifster, I completely agree with you.

It should not just be the US footing the bill or going this alone. It is time for the international community to band together and "spend a little blood and treasure for a change" as you say. The *international community* (multiple countries) should band together to "punch in the nose" any country(s) that consistently commit atrocities and acts well outside established norms and principles that are universal, regardless of the size of the opposing military? Yes, deliberately killing innocents with Chemicals (or any other means) is completely outside acceptable universal human principles. No, while the US could spearhead a international response/punch in the nose, in no way should it shoulder all or most of the costs. The US could (and should) enlist other nations that need to step up, proportionally (based on GDP size) contribute and enforce this redline for the greater good of humanity and they all act in a unified front.

Not enforcing boundaries and redlines enables and emboldens those performing the abuses/atrocities. Redlines need to be set (they are) and the severe consequences for crossing the red lines need to enforced, which, for the most part have not been significantly enforced up till this point. This needs to change. Significant (not just slaps on the wrists like sanctions and expulsions) actions now need to be taken to halt further abuses of the abusers. We have talked and talked. Sanctioned and sanctioned. Threatened and threatened. Tweeted and tweeted. These atrocities continue. A strong international punch in the nose is now what is required. Let the bullies know, that their behavior will no longer be accepted and their will be severe consequences. I am most certain the bullies/abusers will stop. If they do not, inform them that the next significant response will be more severe and continue this pattern until these abuses stop.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I usually post once on a thread, then let others speak. But I have to answer @SanAntonioPrepper .

Your analog of WW2, Hitler, and the Jews does not apply in the present day Middle East. I would not have been an isolationist in 1941. The issue then was clear cut: civilization vs. The Destroyer. You fight.

But today the Sunni's and the Shiite's slaughter each other over the interpretation of a few lines in a book. They stone rape victims to death while telling me that they are going to heaven, and I am going to hell because I eat bacon. Who would I align myself with? The faction that seeks to cut my head off, or the faction that wants to burn me alive in a cage, or the faction that would poison gas me in my sleep. I say none of them. They are all evil. I will not support any of them, regardless of how barbaric they become.


----------



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

sideKahr said:


> I usually post once on a thread, then let others speak. But I have to answer @SanAntonioPrepper .
> 
> Your analog of WW2, Hitler, and the Jews does not apply in the present day Middle East. I would not have been an isolationist in 1941. The issue then was clear cut: civilization vs. The Destroyer. You fight.
> 
> But today the Sunni's and the Shiite's slaughter each other over the interpretation of a few lines in a book. They stone rape victims to death while telling me that they are going to heaven, and I am going to hell because I eat bacon. Who would I align myself with? The faction that seeks to cut my head off, or the faction that wants to burn me alive in a cage, or the faction that would poison gas me in my sleep. I say none of them. They are all evil. I will not support any of them, regardless of how barbaric they become.


I understand you not wanting to defend people with those beliefs. It makes sense. Honestly, I really wouldn't want to defend a whole group of adults who carried out actions like that either.

However, you may be painting every human being over there with the same paint brush stroke so to speak. What we are talking about is very similar to Hitler and WW2 as we are talking about gassing/chemically attacking (or any attack) that kills innocent men, women and children deliberately. These attacks with chemical weapons is exactly what Hitler did, minus the gas chambers, as it is now being done with barrel bombs and with chemically laced doorknobs. Yes, some of them hold the terrible views you accurately describe but some do not. Regardless of the views, there are children involved who are not old enough to even know any better about anything and continuing to turn a blind eye to this vulnerable portion of society, any society of any culture is not humane or compassionate.

Even if we take the middle east out of it, have we also so soon forgotten that one of these offending countries also chemically attacked civilians in one of our allies home countries/soil? In fact, this attack not only affected the targets but put emergency responders in the hospital as well. What if that responder was your spouse, son or daughter? Continue to NIMBY it? This escalation and brazenness is a result of to two factors:

1. the person/group/country actually doing the atrocity is ultimately responsible
2. The NIMBY and isolationism of turning a blind eye until is escalated to that point and further escalation continues until it is IMBY (In my back yard) - look no further then the UK for an example

We are talking about humanity and enforcing universal basic human principles here. One of which is protecting innocent human life (especially children). Failure to act with significant consequences and allowing this train to continue gaining speed down the track will be catastrophic.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me.


----------



## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

SanAntonioPrepper said:


> Cheifster, I completely agree with you.
> 
> It should not just be the US footing the bill or going this alone. It is time for the international community to band together and "spend a little blood and treasure for a change" as you say. The *international community* (multiple countries) should band together to "punch in the nose" any country(s) that consistently commit atrocities and acts well outside established norms and principles that are universal, regardless of the size of the opposing military? Yes, deliberately killing innocents with Chemicals (or any other means) is completely outside acceptable universal human principles. No, while the US could spearhead a international response/punch in the nose, in no way should it shoulder all or most of the costs. The US could (and should) enlist other nations that need to step up, proportionally (based on GDP size) contribute and enforce this redline for the greater good of humanity and they all act in a unified front.
> 
> Not enforcing boundaries and redlines enables and emboldens those performing the abuses/atrocities. Redlines need to be set (they are) and the severe consequences for crossing the red lines need to enforced, which, for the most part have not been significantly enforced up till this point. This needs to change. Significant (not just slaps on the wrists like sanctions and expulsions) actions now need to be taken to halt further abuses of the abusers. We have talked and talked. Sanctioned and sanctioned. Threatened and threatened. Tweeted and tweeted. These atrocities continue. A strong international punch in the nose is now what is required. Let the bullies know, that their behavior will no longer be accepted and their will be severe consequences. I am most certain the bullies/abusers will stop. If they do not, inform them that the next significant response will be more severe and continue this pattern until these abuses stop.


Not to be a pain here, but you suggest we should enlist other nations "proportionally". It's never proportional! We always pay 90 to 95% in blood, material, and cost. Always! 
We are currently energy self-sufficient. That means we don't need to depend on the middle east for anything. Zip. Nada. Zilch. So why are we still there? I have traveled extensively in the middle east and the arab world and believe me when I say NO ONE THERE IS WORTH SACRIFICING A SINGLE AMERICAN LIFE FOR. Now the Israelies are a slightly different story. I still don't advocate spending Amercan lives to defend Israel. But give those Jews all the guns and bombs they need and let them defend themselves. The have a proven track record of taking care of business all by themselves.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

SanAntonioPrepper said:


> ...We are talking about humanity and enforcing universal basic human principles here. One of which is protecting innocent human life (especially children).


Do they seem to care about their own children? If so, let them sit down, talk, and make peace. It seems that every generation must learn the same lesson again and again.

They killed 3000 of us on 911. In the first and second Gulf Wars, our response killed over a million of them. Did it solve anything? Will killing another million?

Poison gas attack is no reason to risk nuclear war with a superpower. Dying from poison gas is no worse than slowly suffocating with your skin burned off after a fuel-air explosion, or drowning in the black belly of a sinking ship.

War is hell. Their war is their hell. Let them fight, or die, or quit. You're right about one thing, it's not in my backyard. And I don't want it brought here.


----------



## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

SanAntonioPrepper said:


> We are talking about humanity and enforcing universal basic human principles here. One of which is protecting innocent human life (especially children). Failure to act with significant consequences and allowing this train to continue gaining speed down the track will be catastrophic.


If the basic human principles you refer to were _actually_ universal, we would not be having this discussion, and there would be no need to consider any action. I'm afraid that's a very lofty platitude that has never been true.
Having the hubris to imagine ourselves the moral policemen of the entire planet comes at a great cost... one I no longer wish to pay. The actual LACK of basic human principals around the world will inexorably drain us out of existence.


----------



## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Many on this forum have spent time in uniform and many of those have been in combat. You guys cannot imagine the respect I have for these men and women. They truely understand the word sacrifice. So the following is in NO WAY meant as disrespect to anyone. But I have found in this life that many of those who advocate most strongly for military intervention are those who have never served or have sons and daughters in uniform now. No disrespect intended. JMHO


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

@SanAntonioPrepper:
Not meaning to be disrespectful, please feel free to send at least one of your children there to die or be maimed and permanently disfigured in the name of humanity.

When you wake up the morning after your last sight of that child is their back as they load onto the plane, let us know if you still feel the same way.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

SGG said:


> I agree with at @sideKahr


Me too.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

To avoid civilian casualties, those hiding amoung the civilian population must comply with the Geneva Conventions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions. Failure to do so does not obligate others to play by Marcus and Queensbury rules despite what the stench from the bench of the US Supreme Court said. JMHO. Chemical attacks are ghastly. But war itself is and civilians always get hurt by it.


----------



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

As a prior serviceman who has served in a war zone and was honorably and medically discharged from the military with medals due to being injured on active duty and due to the fact that police officers, military and fireman run throughout my family, NIMBY, isolationism and turning a blind eye to the helpless and vulnerable, regardless of if they are local or abroad, they hold different beliefs of me or different color of skin then me, does not sit well with me.

I have an innate desire to fight, protect and serve, not let innocents in any part of the world get slaughtered just because they believe something different then me, because they are not geographically close to me or because they have a different color of skin. These are freakin kids we are talking about turning a blind eye to. We are all humans. All innocent humans deserve to be protected and fought for, regardless of the country they are in. If that means I die upholding and protecting these innocents while others stand behind their doors and shout "NIMBY", "not my problem", "let the innocents get slaughtered till they figure it out" then fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion but Id rather die fighting for and protecting innocents then die sitting in front of the TV or in my house somewhere from diabetes or heart disease or whatever. Thats why I signed up and while I wasnt killed in the line of duty only injured, I can say I would continue to fight, not shout NIMBY and practice isolationism.

I have feelers out and I am happy to say that while isolationism is prevalent on this forum and many other people are also isolationists outside of this forum, fortunately, isolationism does not seem to be the majority but rather the minority.

One quote comes to mind that I love: "Evil prevails when good men do nothing". Turning a blind eye to the atrocities we see is doing nothing, is cowardly and its wrong in my eyes.

The use of chemical weapons and deliberately targeting civilians is not ok. Not now, not ever. Not if we do it. Not if anyone does it. Using chemical weapons and targeting civilians is becoming the new norm. Its becoming the new norm because of lack of severe consequences.

Nikki Haley just had a meeting at the UN and I find her words to be true, even if they are unpopular on this forum:

"We are on the edge of a dangerous precipice. The great evil of chemical weapons use that once unified the world in opposition is on the verge of becoming the new normal.
The *international community* must not let this happen. We have reached the moment when the *world must see justice done*.
History will record this as the moment when the Security Council either *discharged its duty*, or demonstrated its utter and complete failure to protect the people of Syria. Either way, the United States will respond."


----------



## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Rumours of War

Remember when the Duck said he wouldn't tell his opponents when he would invade.

He said today that we'll know more in 24 - 48 hours.
The guided missile destroyer is in position


----------



## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

@SanAntonioPrepper. Thank you for your service, sir. And I respect your opinion. Hopefully we can both respectfully agree to disagree.


----------



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

Chiefster23 said:


> @SanAntonioPrepper. Thank you for your service, sir. And I respect your opinion. Hopefully we can both respectfully agree to disagree.


Thank you sir for that comment. I am not claiming that my position or opinion is best or better then anyone else, just that I have it from my life experiences of seeing the vulnerable mistreated while some turned a blind eye because they felt it wasn't their place. When I had the power to intervene at times in different times of my life and I did intervene for different circumstances, it made an tremendously powerful impression on me and those I saved. Had I turned a blind eye and said "not my problem", "let them deal with it and sort it out", terrible things would have continued to escalate and ended terribly. I hold that close to my heart that I will uphold the innocent and intervene in the future, even if it means my life. At least I will die protecting those who couldnt protect themselves.

Yes Chief, I respect your opinion, even if it is much different then mind and I can agree to disagree.


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

It's different when YOU are willing to run into the flames. I would rather go than my children. I will sacrifice ME to protect others. On that we can agree. But to risk your children for people who could not care less for you? No. For people who would rather be refugees and let someone else fight their battles? No.
Sorry, I don't think of myself as an isolationist because I don't believe in futile sacrifice. But if that is the label you fell I fit, add it to the other labels I've been assigned.


----------



## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

Stop sanctioning Russia. Improve ties with Russia despite what the EU thinks. Draw clear lines with Russia on resource grabs in the Middle East. Split it up with them and make them a true ally.

In war people die. Those people who say how you can die in war are ignorant to reality. Assad is fighting to win...unlike how we manage our wars currently. 

We should not weaken our position by pulling out. We should be working with the Russians to stabilize the combat zones. Stabilize the governments which operate through ideology. 

Ideas are more dangerous than guns...I think some communist said that once.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Went into detail in this week's podcast. 
We broke down the players and why there is good reason to be concerned. Big time concerned. A misstep could really land the world in a mess of Biblical proportion. I do mean Biblical.


----------



## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

Denton said:


> Went into detail in this week's podcast.
> We broke down the players and why there is good reason to be concerned. Big time concerned. A misstep could really land the world in a mess of Biblical proportion. I do mean Biblical.


Misstep every day Denton. This is always possible and has been for decades. What makes this situation different than the rest of history leading up to this day? Biblically speaking I mean. Not being trying to be an ass...I'm curious


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I give not one rats ass about the slimeball goat humpers in Syria. Let 'em kill each other every damn day.

Mrs Slippy has reminded me that I should pray that every muslime accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour so I'll do that.

But send one more American soldier or one more American dollar to assist the forementioned goat humpers? Hell No! The pedophile fool muhammed and his moon god can kiss my ass.

I agree with @sideKahr on this one.


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

How about we play to win, or not at all? Screw glory and honor, we play for gain. Colonize Syria!


----------



## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

F... Syria. 

War costs resources. Time for bs is soon at an end. Just wait till the big dogs fight for resources for real.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Ragnarök said:


> Misstep every day Denton. This is always possible and has been for decades. What makes this situation different than the rest of history leading up to this day? Biblically speaking I mean. Not being trying to be an ass...I'm curious


Nutshell without going into specifics as, like I said, we went into detail on the last podcast/YouTube.
Russia, Turkey, and Iran are clear allies, today. They have a keen interest in Syria, and Iran and Turkey are united in the destruction of Israel. Short of nukes, the West cannot win an all-out war in the region if those three work as a team, and with China making it clear it will back Russia in a U.S./Russian conflict.
Israel is being blamed for yesterday's airstrike in Syria, and probably for good reason. In the Muslim world, it doesn't matter if the strike is justified; it is still provocation, and Iranians were killed in the strike. It doesn't matter if Assad is responsible for the chlorine gas (which I do NOT believe), Russia made it clear it won't tolerate more attacks by the U.S.
Today, Putin said the U.S. _wants_ war. He is almost correct. It isn't the U.S., but the Satanic Globalists who are wanting war. They are the ones who are demanding President Trump strike Assad over the chlorine gas release, even though there is no proof who released the gas.

This mess could be the cause of the Muslim nations, led by Turkey, converging against Israel. We know what that means.


----------



## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

nothing overnite to worry about - 24-48 hours til things pop - chess pieces still being moved around ....


----------



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

Denton said:


> ..... It doesn't matter if Assad is responsible for the chlorine gas (which I do NOT believe), Russia made it clear it won't tolerate more attacks by the U.S.
> ..... even though there is no proof who released the gas.
> .


Many people know the Russia government uses plausible deniability until they are literally caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They will say "I didnt do it!, the boogey man may have done it! You may have done it! Your wife may have done it!" until they are actually caught. Then they are like, yeah, ok, we were there, we did it, so, big deal. Until they are caught directly, they will sow discord, disinformation, doubt and accusations through various means just as they have shown to do multiple times prior. "History has a funny way of repeating itself". Or is the saying "old habbits die hard"? I cant remember.

If Assad did not gas his people multiple times with Russian blessings (the Russians work right alongside the Syrians with the Russians in close proximity), they sure as hell have a funny way of showing their innocence by all the vetoing they do. Especially when that vetoing has denied UN resolutions for an international team to be allowed to investigate and stay to continue to investigate crimes against humanity. Or vetoed UN resolutions for parties responsible for the attacks to be held accountable. Or UN resolutions for a peaceful resolution to the conflict by addressing the legitimate aspirations and concerns of the population. Or for a UN resolution for an end to all violence. All vetoed by Russia.

Keep in mind all those attacks, if done by someone staging it and its all a hoax, like the Russian government, the Russian Times (RT) and Sputnik have reported and like some claim the moon landing is a hoax, nothing really came from all of those "hoaxes"/staged events over multiple years except unenforced sanctions, nasty tweets and real dead people. Sometimes the tweets weren't even nasty. That is a lot of work to stage something/come up with a hoax just to have, well... nothing be done about it.

Heres a list of the vetos from Russia regarding Syria.

*4 October 2011*
The first time a UNSC resolution on the Syrian civil war failed to pass came six months after the beginning of the bloody conflict. The council drafted a statement "expressing grave concern at the situation in Syria," and stressing the only solution to the current crisis in Syria was "through an inclusive and Syrian-led political process with the aim of effectively addressing the legitimate aspirations and concerns of the population."
Vetoes: China, Russia

*4 February 2012*
The Russian and Chinese delegations both used their "no" votes again four months later, blocking a resolution which expressed "grave concern at the deterioration of the situation in Syria," and "profound concern at the death of thousands of people... calling for an immediate end to all violence."
Vetoes: China, Russia

*19 July 2012*
Later in 2012, the Russians and Chinese again voted against a draft resolution, "condemning the Syrian authorities' increasing use of heavy weapons... and armed violence in all its forms, including by armed opposition groups; Condemning the continued widespread violations of human rights by the Syrian authorities, and armed opposition groups."
Vetoes: China, Russia

*22 May 2014*
This resolution had sought to ensure "that perpetrators of violations, including those that may constitute crimes against humanity, are held accountable; Condemning the continued widespread violations of human rights by the Syrian authorities, and armed opposition groups." 
Vetoes: China, Russia

*8 October 2016*
Over two years later, as Assad's forces descended on the rebel-held city of Aleppo, the UNSC again attempted to register "outrage at the alarming number of civilian casualties caused by escalating level of violence and indiscriminate aerial bombings in Aleppo." 
The resolution referred the "grave.. distress" at the "deterioration of the humanitarian situation in Syria, and the fact that now more than 13.5 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance." Russia was alone in vetoing the draft, China abstained.
Veto: Russia

*5 December 2016*
As the humanitarian crisis in the besieged town of Aleppo worsened, a resolution called on all "parties to the Syrian conflict" to "cease... any and all attacks in the city of Aleppo to allow urgent humanitarian needs to be addressed for a period of seven days." 
It also called for all parties to give the United Nations and its partners "unimpeded humanitarian access."
Both China and Russia voted against the resolution.
Vetoes: China, Russia

*28 February 2017*
Despite passing a resolution in September 2013 which called for the verification and destruction of Syria's chemical weapon stockpile, China and Russia blocked a draft resolution this February that called for sanctions on parties involved.
Members had been asked to vote on the "imposition of sanctions on entities and individuals deemed to have been involved in the production or use of chemical weapons in Syria."
Vetoes: China, Russia

*12 April 2017*
The latest resolution to fail at the hands of Russia's veto power came in the wake of the gas attack on Khan Sheikhoun in Idlib province. The draft resolution condemned the attacks and called for an international investigation into the perpetrators. This time China abstained. 
Veto: Russia

Funny way of showing innocence by denying/vetoing international investigation into said atrocity and all the other vetoing Russia has been doing. New to me at least. I wonder if the word "veto" has been worn out and needs to be repainted on the Russian button.

Yes, the Russian government has culpability and has used plausible deniability multiple times unil it was found out and proved that they actually were involved in something. Anyone remember Crimea and the "little green men" that were "self defense forces" or "Russians on vacation" who "may have attained Russian looking uniforms" ?
Please read the Russian reactions and the plausible deniability they used until their actual hand was caught in the cookie jar. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Ukrainian_crisis)

Yeah, craziness. Russia denied it the whole time prior until they were actually caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They sowed discord, misinformation and accusations until caught. Then, when caught, they finally admitted it. No, it wasnt aliens or our spouse. Whew. I was worried for a moment. They are doing the same thing now.

What about the recent attempted attack on US forces in Syria. Russia to this day denies the attempted attack but yet up to 300 Russians died and their military families/spouses are furious the Russian government has been silent on their spouses death during their "spouses honorable service":
http://www.newsweek.com/total-f-russian-mercenaries-syria-lament-us-strike-killed-dozens-818073

Do we really have that short of memories about all the shady things the Russian government has done recently?

But let me guess, the people that died from all the chemical attacks in Syria in the past didnt really die. Or they did die but it was all staged and the all the nations that investigated and came to the same conclusion that Russia and Syria were responsible are all lying. Its all a big hoax, like the moon landing, and everyone is in on it despite Russia and China. They are the victims. Russia didnt invade another soverign country. Russia didnt poison allies. Russian mercenaries didnt try to attack US troops in Syria despite what the families of the deceased are saying. Russia is innocent. Completely. They are the victims. At least, that is what the governemnt and RT are saying. Well, they are innocent and the victims until they are not. Like has been shown over..... and over..... and over again.

Lets face it, the Russian government has had its hand in atrocities despite what the Russian government, Sputnik and RT are claiming. Whether or not they did the latest attack, based on their prior actions, they look guilty as hell. If their is smoke.....

Yes, an international team should be allowed to investigate and no, Russia should not veto it like they have done so many times in the past.

The US is no saint by any stretch of the imagination, but neither is Russia, despite what the comrades are saying on RT or what the Russian paid "troll farms" are spouting out in the comment sections of news articles.

Also, keep in mind, Russia is not just allied with Syria. Syria is allied with, Hezbollah (a known terrorist organization), North Korea (a pariah dictator state that terrorizes its people) and Iran (not much more needs to be said). 
http://www.newsweek.com/are-north-korea-syria-working-together-against-us-822564

How does that old proverb/saying go again? "A man is known by the company he keeps". Or maybe it was.... "Show me a man's friend's and Ill tell you the future".


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

SanAntonioPrepper said:


> I get that many (but not all) of us on this forum are isolationists.
> 
> I had a good idea how a good portion of the responses would go but I am looking to be surprised. I'm sure there are some non isolationists out there (and even some isolationists) on this forum who are willing to stand up for the greater good of humanity (using chemical weapons on innocents or otherwise is a universal no no) even if it is NIMBY (not in my back yard). Especially since one of these countries just brazenly chemically attacked an allies innocent civilians on their own soil.
> 
> ...


I wasn't always an isolationist.
I was a flag wavin' red blooded American patriot.
So, I volunteered for the Army, and volunteered for service in Vietnam, so I could go stop those godless communists from taking over the world.
Just like some now obviously want to stop those current terrorists that are 10,000 miles away from here.

But you know what? The military-industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned us about gets rich. The politicians in Washington get rich. The globalists drool.
And the poor bastards at the sharp end of the stick are the one's bleeding and dying. For what? For warm fuzzy feelings that "we are doing something against evil"?
And years from now, those goat humpers will still be killing each other, and all the Gold Star Moms sacrifices will be in vain.

Yeah, I wasn't always an isolationist. But now? If it's happening outside my perimeter (the Continental US, or CONUS for you old hands), to hell with it. Not my circus, not my monkey.

For the record, "they" hung some shiny things on my chest too. And every day I am reminded what happened so long ago and so far away.
Would I trade my experiences back? No, but neither do I want others to suffer for a wasted cause.
514 of the 58,282 KIA's in Vietnam were from my unit. And that war was not worth one of their lives. NOT ONE.


----------



## Joe (Nov 1, 2016)

Ragnarök said:


> Misstep every day Denton. This is always possible and has been for decades. What makes this situation different than the rest of history leading up to this day? Biblically speaking I mean. Not being trying to be an ass...I'm curious


 @Denton is referring to the following:Ezekiel 38-39 speaks of a great battle that will occur in Israel in the "latter days" and that will involve a people from "Magog" led by a king named Gog. Ezekiel described this war as being waged in the "mountains of Israel" against the children of Israel gathered to these lands. The Lord also told Ezekiel He would miraculously save His people from the armies of Magog so that all nations may "know that I am the Lord" (Ezekiel 38:23). Because of these descriptions, Ezekiel seems to be describing the great battle before the Second Coming, commonly known as "Armageddon."What can be confusing is that John the Revelator described a battle between good and evil at the end of the Millennium as the battle of Gog and Magog (see Revelation 20:7-9). So there are two battles referred to as Gog and Magog, the first right before the Second Coming and the other at the end of the Millennium. They are similar in that they will be massive battles involving great destruction that completely destroys the enemies of God and makes significant changes in the earth. That Mister Denton is a pretty smart guy and knows his scriptures.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Joe said:


> @Denton is referring to the following:Ezekiel 38-39 speaks of a great battle that will occur in Israel in the "latter days" and that will involve a people from "Magog" led by a king named Gog. Ezekiel described this war as being waged in the "mountains of Israel" against the children of Israel gathered to these lands. The Lord also told Ezekiel He would miraculously save His people from the armies of Magog so that all nations may "know that I am the Lord" (Ezekiel 38:23). Because of these descriptions, Ezekiel seems to be describing the great battle before the Second Coming, commonly known as "Armageddon."What can be confusing is that John the Revelator described a battle between good and evil at the end of the Millennium as the battle of Gog and Magog (see Revelation 20:7-9). So there are two battles referred to as Gog and Magog, the first right before the Second Coming and the other at the end of the Millennium. They are similar in that they will be massive battles involving great destruction that completely destroys the enemies of God and makes significant changes in the earth. That Mister Denton is a pretty smart guy and knows his scriptures.


From you response an argument can be be started between the pre, mid and post tribbers, but you get the point. Kudos to you!


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I wasn't always an isolationist.
> I was a flag wavin' red blooded American patriot.
> So, I volunteered for the Army, and volunteered for service in Vietnam, so I could go stop those godless communists from taking over the world.
> Just like some now obviously want to stop those current terrorists that are 10,000 miles away from here.
> ...


My father was with the 1st Cav in Vietnam. He doesn't talk much about it. My mother? She loves you all but has no kind words for those who got y'all into it.
This vet. My first NCOs were really screwed up Viet-Vets. I wonder how many are alive, today. How many drank themselves to death? How many are homeless?
They kill us. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. Either way, they kill us so they prosper. Damn them.
Carry on, Brother.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I can't be considered a dove by no means, but I think not one more American life wasted, nor a drop of American blood spilled, or a single dollar spent on that miserable hell hole called the middle east. They have been killing each other for centuries, we ain't changing that. Besides, it is my belief WWIII will come out of that pit from hell one day, one way or the other. Anything we do now will only hasten that eventuality. 

Trump needs to stay out of it but I fear he won't contain himself. As mentioned, one misstep and all hell will break loose.


----------



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

Things are eerily quiet right now regarding Syria in light of what Trump and Nikki said yesterday.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

US Navy destroyer with 60 cruise missiles onboard on station off Syria.

Hmmm. Reminds me of when Billy Boy Clinton was up to his eyeballs in the Monica Lewinski affair and he diverted attention by blowing the devil out of what turned out to be an aspirin factory.
As soon as Chicken Hawk John Bolton becomes National Security Advisor there is a "poison gas strike" to get everyone all whipped up to "do something". Good timing, eh?
And McCain and that guy from South Carolina are beating the war drum. Both are RINO losers.

Does anyone know who performed this dastardly poison gas event? ISIS? Asad? Russia? The US?

I love my country, but I sure as hell don't trust my government. No matter who is holding the reins.


----------



## SanAntonioPrepper (Apr 10, 2017)

I forgot to mention: Today "Russia has vetoed a U.S.-drafted U.N. resolution that would have condemned last weekend's suspected gas attack near Damascus and *established a new body to determine responsibility for Syrian chemical weapons attacks*.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018...s-resolution-on-syria-chemical-attacks-512514

We can add the current Russian veto today to the growing list of vetos Russia has performed to block international investigations to determine responsibility and to the other vetos Russia has done that where talked about up in post #32 above.


----------



## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I love my country, but I sure as hell don't trust my government.


^^^^^^What he said...^^^^^^^^


----------



## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

I am going to weigh in here. I spent 4 years of my life over in the Middle East in the 70's. The *ONLY* place I care about over there is Israel. They have helped us so many times I can't count. And 99.999% has been without the populations knowledge. I do not care how much munitions we give them, they can not do it by themselves.
If we do nothing, it will be here. People are saying not in my backyard? We will not be able to stop it. We designated ourselves to be the worlds police. The "Blues" can't and won't do anything but take our money.
Someone mentioned the Geneva Convention? We have *NEVER* completely complied with it. 
China will always back Russia. So lets just pull our panties down and bend over. Lets just invite them all in and we will put down our weapons. Because that is what will happen.
I am not really worried about Syria, but what happens after with the "Domino Theory". We have never really tried to win since WWII. I am not talking about we combat vets but the Government/Politicians. If we don't do something, it will be here. Mark My Words. And I mean on our soil. We can not stop it. We know now, we have terrorist here. There will be more coming. We do not have the stomach to stop it. Do I want my grandkids to go to war? No, but it will have to be done. The Sooner the better. This is my .02 worth. Most of you who have read my posts know I am a hard core conservative. BUT I LOVE MY COUNTRY. I do not want to see a minerate on every corner. But if we don't do something it will happen.


----------

