# Afteraction of a Self Defense Altercation



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Check out this video from J.J. of Reality Survival, What he would do after a self defense shooting.






In the video he gives an example of what you should say to the police and I really like it. Instead of just lawyering up you give a small explanation and show that you will cooperate while lawyering up.

"I would like to speak to an attorney before I provide a written statement or answer any questions. But I want you to know that I am the victim of this crime and that I was afraid for my life. I felt that if I did not defend myself the criminal was going to kill me. I will fully cooperate with your investigation and I will sign the complaint against the criminal. But because the issue is so serious I would like to consult with an attorney before answering any aditional questions."

He also gives some aditional advice that I thought was good and I added to it to further expand your actions that you should follow thru with.

As soon as you stopped the threat, kick the criminals weapon away from him and do not touch. You do not want your prints on it. When the scene is safe, make a brief video and pictures of the scene, do not speak while you are filming, your attorney may want to use your video in court. If there is a serious fact that should be pointed out then make a very quick secondary video. Holster your weapon when officers arrive to show you are not the threat. Show arriving officers any evidence on scene. Any casualties and if you received any wounds. Also point out any surveillance cameras in the area(some cameras are on a loop and if you do not remove the video it may get recorded over). Point out any witnesses that saw the incident happen. If anybody tries to leave before the police arrive ask them to stay. If they still insist on leaving then take a picture of them and/or their lisence plate number.

Forward text/email copies of your pictures and vidoes to another source that law enforcement cannot immediately seize like an email account that is not accessible from your phone for safe keeping your attorney would be a very good recipient. Keep your phone password protected and do not release your password until you speak to your attorney. Get the names of reporting officers, badge numbers and the report number of the incident for your attorney.

Somewheres in the process after the scene is safe you will want to provide first aid to other victims and the criminal or get a bystander(s) to assist you in rendering aid. Becareful that evidence will not be disturbed or destroyed. When the criminal tries to sue you for shooting him or her it will look better that you provided aid after you defended yourself from being attacked. Keep your mouth shut except to your spouse or your attorney. There is no statu of limitations for murder.

Something to consider is that 911 will try to keep you on the line until the cops get there. Either do your quick video before you call or politely but firmly tell them you have to go and hang up on them.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

At my age the first thing I say to the officer at the scene is I've got serious chest pains going on and should go to the ER please. And I'm not able to speak further. At the ER I ask them to call my wife. She knows the attorneys number.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

No words can be uttered by someone who is in shock. That's my plan. Might even be the truth, as I am getting more soft-hearted with age.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

Pretty much everyone I know has a "mushy brain" moment(s) after shock and adrenaline, Id be calling in a BDA and practically speaking English

Vids like this are good, but taking another person life sucks really bad, add the emotional and psychological trauma and remembering what to say and what to do becomes much harder.

I guess my plan is render aid if the guy/gal isnt dead, kick the weapon(s) away and wait for the cops, ask for a lawyer and take the ambulance to the hospital call the wife en route...dont think itll go as smooth but ther it is

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> Pretty much everyone I know has a "mushy brain" moment(s) after shock and adrenaline, Id be calling in a BDA and practically speaking English
> 
> Vids like this are good, but taking another person life sucks really bad, add the emotional and psychological trauma and remembering what to say and what to do becomes much harder.
> 
> ...


I am going to shorten what I wrote on the original post to the bare minimum and print it off and have several copies. My wallet and truck, wife's purse and KIA and a couple around the house. Besides a shooting it will still be useful for other incidents like bashing in the head of an intruder with a baseball bat or any other use of force self defense incidents firearm/non firearm related.

That way after the incident you have something to jog your memory and you basically have a script to go off of. Just have to remember that you have it, LOL.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> I am going to shorten what I wrote on the original post to the bare minimum and print it off and have several copies. My wallet and truck, wife's purse and KIA and a couple around the house. Besides a shooting it will still be useful for other incidents like bashing in the head of an intruder with a baseball bat or any other use of force self defense incidents firearm/non firearm related.
> 
> That way after the incident you have something to jog your memory and you basically have a script to go off of. Just have to remember that you have it, LOL.


Thats actually a good idea...like taping 9 line cards to my PSC5, I get really retarded after getting shot at...guess its better than during

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> I am going to shorten what I wrote on the original post to the bare minimum and print it off and have several copies. My wallet and truck, wife's purse and KIA and a couple around the house. Besides a shooting it will still be useful for other incidents like bashing in the head of an intruder with a baseball bat or any other use of force self defense incidents firearm/non firearm related.
> 
> That way after the incident you have something to jog your memory and you basically have a script to go off of. Just have to remember that you have it, LOL.


Not a bad idea having a reminder. The less said to the cops while appearing to be cooperative the better. Police, when in doubt, will often arrest everyone and let the judge sort it out.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

MaterielGeneral said:


> I am going to shorten what I wrote on the original post to the bare minimum and print it off and have several copies. My wallet and truck, wife's purse and KIA and a couple around the house. Besides a shooting it will still be useful for other incidents like bashing in the head of an intruder with a baseball bat or any other use of force self defense incidents firearm/non firearm related.
> 
> That way after the incident you have something to jog your memory and you basically have a script to go off of. Just have to remember that you have it, LOL.


mg
I'd like to see your wallet notes when complete.
cakes


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

MaterielGeneral said:


> I am going to shorten what I wrote on the original post to the bare minimum and print it off and have several copies. My wallet and truck, wife's purse and KIA and a couple around the house. Besides a shooting it will still be useful for other incidents like bashing in the head of an intruder with a baseball bat or any other use of force self defense incidents firearm/non firearm related.
> 
> That way after the incident you have something to jog your memory and you basically have a script to go off of. Just have to remember that you have it, LOL.


Don't forget your kids, teach them that if they get in a jam they do not speak unless you are present so that you can decide if they need an attorney or not. If they are older and handle weapons hunting or target shooting or self defense this is mandatory.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

stowlin said:


> At my age the first thing I say to the officer at the scene is I've got serious chest pains going on and should go to the ER please. And I'm not able to speak further. At the ER I ask them to call my wife. She knows the attorneys number.


you got it guy - don't be a sap and listen to this video BS ... there isn't a defense attorney on the planet that would agree with that strategy ... the DA will be interviewing every cop on the scene and looking for stupid moves like that to exploit ....

KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT !!!!! .... call 911 with care and look out for anyone else that's on the phone or taking pics .... *and watch out for dashboard & body cameras/audio * .... don't forget - absolutely EVERTHING gets used against you - you aren't a citizen anymore - you're the DA's enemy and target to be checked off on his professional prosecution record .... defense defense defense

remember what happened to Zimmerman - everything was OK until the soon-to-be BLM brought in the race card ... the law means nothing


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Urinal Cake said:


> mg
> I'd like to see your wallet notes when complete.
> cakes


Pocket sized statement, print off back to back. Laminate and put in your wallet/purse, vehicle, bedroom, near your most widely used exterior door. Basically put it where you will have access to it. Below is the statement and an abbreviated to do list. Familiarize yourself with the above to do list so you can better relate it to the abbreviated list.

"I would like to speak to an attorney before 
I provide a written statement or answer any 
questions. But I want you to know that I am
the victim of this crime and that I was afraid 
for my life. I felt that if I did not defend myself
the criminal was going to kill me. I will fully 
cooperate with your investigation and I will sign
the complaint against the criminal. But because
the issue is so serious I would like to consult with 
an attorney before answering any additional 
questions."

Stop the threat, kick the criminals weapon away
from him and do not touch. When scene is safe, 
make a brief video and pictures of the scene 
for your attorney. Forward email/text to 3rd party. 
Render 1st Aid to assailant/victims. Show officers 
evidence on scene. Any casualties and if you 
received wounds. Point out any surveillance 
cameras and any witnesses If witness leave take a 
picture of them/plate number. Get names of 
officers/badge# and the incident report number 
for attorney. Watch your words and actions. 
Watch for interrogation techniques Stand by 
your decision to remain silent until you speak to 
your attorney. You have a legal right to remain 
silent, hold your ground, do it firmly but with 
respect.

You will have to copy and past to Word or whatever. You will have to adjust the size also. #10 font seemed pretty good.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

Very good! Concise and to the point!


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

Sounds good as a hypothetical, but I have a feeling if I were ever in that situation, I'd be lucky to remember my name, let alone taking care of any details.

Also, I wonder how it would look to be so calm and collected as to take videos and notice evidence. I mean, in a situation where you really fear for your life and you've just killed someone, wouldn't it almost come across as premeditated if you're doing all of the things he suggested?


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

indie said:


> Sounds good as a hypothetical, but I have a feeling if I were ever in that situation, I'd be lucky to remember my name, let alone taking care of any details.
> 
> Also, I wonder how it would look to be so calm and collected as to take videos and notice evidence. I mean, in a situation where you really fear for your life and you've just killed someone, wouldn't it almost come across as premeditated if you're doing all of the things he suggested?


I don't trust Jack especially if they wear a uniform. Cover your *ss. Your almost guaranteed your going to jail and to trial. I don't care what others think. Only people I care about is the jury. I have no problem explaining how I followed my training and after the scene was safe I took a couple pics and a short video to give to my attorney.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

I have already had one self defense situation and I can tell you that the system is not your friend.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Toefoot (Jun 21, 2017)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Don't forget your kids, teach them that if they get in a jam they do not speak unless you are present so that you can decide if they need an attorney or not. If they are older and handle weapons hunting or target shooting or self defense this is mandatory.


This is a big issue. With Government and the school districts taking away parental rights some parents here in Colorado are requiring the children to carry this card and are instructed to keep quite and turn over the card. Some parents demanded that this card also be put into the students file:

*ATTENTION*

Due to my rights under the Constitution, I will not waive
my rights to have an Attorney and my parent(s) or guardian
present when a law enforcement officer or school official 
requests an interrogation of any indecent that takes place
at school, at home or any other location, public or private.

This all started with Colorado's bullying law. Seems school officials along with LE want carte blanche with minors in this state.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

*Amendment V*

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; *nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself*, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fifth_amendment

First, teach them the Fifth Amendment, they will thank you later. THEN: I would teach my kids to "zip it up" and wait for a mouth-piece, to do your talking for you. 
That is why God put them there.:tango_face_smile:

I would also advise them to talk to ME, the father, before they talk to the mouth-piece. Because it is legal for cops to impersonate lawyers. 
_The best policy, is to say nothing at all while in custody: because the legal system is adversarial, it is your opponent, not your friend. _


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

MaterielGeneral said:


> I don't trust Jack especially if they wear a uniform. Cover your *ss. Your almost guaranteed your going to jail and to trial. I don't care what others think. Only people I care about is the jury. I have no problem explaining how I followed my training and after the scene was safe I took a couple pics and a short video to give to my attorney.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


never forget that anything you collect as evidence or give as info to your attorney can still come back to bite you - that client/attorney relationship isn't as damn pure as it should be ....


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> *Amendment V*
> 
> No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; *nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself*, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fifth_amendment
> ...


Uh, since when can the police impersonate a lawyer?


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

MisterMills357 said:


> *Amendment V*
> 
> No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; *nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself*, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
> https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fifth_amendment
> ...


the cops & DA also use the old cellmate gambit - whether they are a dirtbag scum liar or a cop posing as a prisoner .....


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Denton said:


> Uh, since when can the police impersonate a lawyer?


It seems that in 2008: 
Monroe County Sheriff's Detectives Doug Brannon and Pat Henry actually posed as a federal defense attorney in an attempt to get incriminating information out of suspect John Edward Dawson, who was in jail on a host of charges, including theft and drug distribution. Not only that, but in doing so, they also talked Dawson into refusing to cooperate with his public defender and to plead guilty to the charges against him. They communicated with Dawson via a jailhouse informant.

Dawson's public defender was so taken aback by his assurances to her that he had a "federal lawyer" who had worked out all of his charges, that she actually asked for a psychiatric evaluation. When all this came to light, Dawson's (real) attorney asked for a continuance in his case so she could assess the damage. Remarkably, Tennessee Tenth Judicial Judge Amy Reedy refused the request, ruling that Dawson made "a real dumb decision" and that he had "picked his poison."
Tennessee Cops Posed as a Defense Attorney To Get Suspect To Incriminate Himself - Hit & Run : Reason.com

I will admit, it only happened once, and it was garbage police work. They used an informant, but it happened, and the judge refused a continuance! Are you kidding, how could he refuse that? And the guys lawyer thought that he had gone NUTS.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> OK, you got me, I can't remember; but I have heard of something very close to that. Always use caution when talking to cops.


Definitely, use caution, but pretending to be an attorney is a sure-fire way to lose a case and a job.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Denton said:


> Definitely, use caution, but pretending to be an attorney is a sure-fire way to lose a case and a job.


I was wrong, it wasn't a cop, it was a jail house informant.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Every bullet fired has an attorney attached
Shut up, call an attorney


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## Loed (Jul 9, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Check out this video from J.J. of Reality Survival, What he would do after a self defense shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At some point seem more like an advice for homicide then a self defense situation. ..

Inviato dal mio SM-G800F utilizzando Tapatalk


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Another statement.

Try to video tape this statement and reactions.
1. I do not consent to searches.
2. I am not speaking to you or answering any questions and I want to speak to an attorney.
3. I do not agree to stay here with you for any reason. Are you detaining me or am I free to go?

The rest will be Michigan specific self defense information.

MICHIGAN SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT) Act 309 of 2006
780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions. Sec. 2. (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies: (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual. (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual. (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual. History: 2006, Act 309, Eff. Oct. 1, 2006.

https://www.michigancriminallawyer-blog.com/2012/04/the-right-to-act-in-self-defen.html

https://www.cyabdolaw.com/5th-amendment-right-to-remain-silent.html

Michigan Legislature - Section 780.972

What does your state law say? Please reference the actual law.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Top Off , call 911 , then call Lawyer ...


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

If it happened to me again, today's time frame, I would need an ambulance for real or the coroner.

I don't have any heart condition, but the stress of another incident would probably bring it on.

At my age (76) there is no option of a retrograde action, fight, win or die or die post incident, only options.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

I like this guys channel. He is a cop and a trainer so he has some good prepping videos. He recently did some videos on taking prisoners. Here they are, you have to check the dates to get them in order:

Prepper Security: Include This in your Firearms Training to Stay Out of Jail





Prepper Security: Taking Detainees During SHTF - Tight Quarters Control





Prepper Security: Taking Prisoners During SHTF - Using an Arm Lock 





Prepper Security: Taking Prisoners During SHTF - Using the Figure 4 





What You Need to Know About Making a Citizen's Arrests


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

If you subscribe to his channel tell him Swamp Fox sent you. :vs_wave: Actually I hope you all do subscribe. He has a really good channel with a broad range of topics and most important is that he interacts with his viewers. I will cancel a channel in a heartbeat if they don't at least try to comment back here and there.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

I have posted this before but here it is. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/offers/5890b0827386f/join-the-uscca-today?tID=5997596ea811c

If you have car or house insurance why not something that will keep you out of jail or prison? The good thing is that it is not just CCW but open carry and home defense. Basically anything firearm related.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I've thought about this, and the one thing that concerns me is something called "disparity of force."

I have a Wisconsin CCW. If I'm attacked by a guy with a knife or a club, will the DA charge me because I used a .45 ACP to save my life?

The other side isn't bright either. Let's say the guy does attack me with a knife or a club. I'm a professional knife polisher, and some of my knives are 3.2 million grit where a stock jackknife is 320 grit, and your Schick razor might be 15,000 grit. Also, knife fights are bloody and grotesque. Would the use of the knife be worse?

Then again, look at us as a group. Preppers, bikers, blue-collar guys. I live within Dane County, Wisconsin. Most people in power (except for the Governor) are liberals. I'm not sure that a valid CCW license, or a switchblade sanctioned by Governor Walker repealing the 1958 law will mean a darn thing to those in power.

The victim does not cease being the victim if he becomes a victor--except in Madison.

https://www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/kunsan.asp


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

I'm in Shasta County Ca. (Our last four High Profile CCW involved shootings have ended with no charges being filed ,in four wildly varying incidents that almost cover the gamut )


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

MaterielGeneral said:


> I have already had one self defense situation and I can tell you that the system is not your friend.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


absolutely...the idea of a speedy trial is to allow folks to hear the issue soon and while ground truth is relevant. The new norm is that fast is a year later and the best you get is a monday morning quarterback analogy... folks do not comprehend the situation. Do not give them audio, to go along with the video, or recounting....


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## bigdogmom (Aug 28, 2015)

I took a class at the beginning of the year put on by Suarez International. The class had an extra day added to try out a new class they were considering adding to their lineup called Killing Within The Law.

Killing Within The Law was put together by a police officer and an attorney. The class was amazing and we only got the short version. They give you perspectives on things that you never think of from both sides - the police officer and your attorney.

I don't see that they have it listed on their current line up of classes, but I know they did do the class on its own several times last Spring/Summer. It is worth your time and money: https://suarezinternational.com/suarez-firearms-training/

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> I've thought about this, and the one thing that concerns me is something called "disparity of force."
> 
> I have a Wisconsin CCW. If I'm attacked by a guy with a knife or a club, will the DA charge me because I used a .45 ACP to save my life?
> 
> ...


Always assume that you will be charged, so be prepared to defend your actions in court. You know how dangerous a man with a knife is, so you will want to guide you attorney, since he doesn't know that. If he can flush out some cases, where a man with a gun used it in self-defense against a knife that would help. The jury must be made to understand, that there is only the appearance of disparity. Since, the knife wielder can kill with a single stroke, against the carotid artery. A club is no less dangerous, but the jury must be convinced of that, which can be done. If someone busts your skull, and spills your brains, you will be very dead. If they understand that, they will take your side.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

MisterMills357 said:


> Always assume that you will be charged, so be prepared to defend your actions in court. You know how dangerous a man with a knife is, so you will want to guide you attorney, since he doesn't know that. If he can flush out some cases, where a man with a gun used it in self-defense against a knife that would help. The jury must be made to understand, that there is only the appearance of disparity. Since, the knife wielder can kill with a single stroke, against the carotid artery. A club is no less dangerous, but the jury must be convinced of that, which can be done. If someone busts your skull, and spills your brains, you will be very dead. If they understand that, they will take your side.


When I was going through the Georgia Corrections Academy I visited the library. The academy is also for the state police just different sections.

There were knife videos showing the response time needed to protect yourself from attack. Very interesting and deadly topic. If it is a concern I would research the professional knife videos (recognized by law enforcement)and get copies.

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