# This is Real People!! Are you Ready??



## MikeyPrepper

Hey Guys read this article, very interesting..... I live in the NY area so this hits home..

"You can't handle the truth" says an Israeli Intelligence Agent


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## Zed

This is quite an eye-opener..
Carefull guys and keep your weapons ready


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## MikeyPrepper

Well the truth can be sometimes....I will make sure to give my family each walkie talkies as we are all within 20 miles of each other



Zed said:


> This is quite an eye-opener..
> Carefull guys and keep your weapons ready


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## James m

That was a good read. I did always think about Mumbai style attacks.


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## MikeyPrepper

No problem, just be preparred



James m said:


> That was a good read. I did always think about Mumbai style attacks.


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## Zed

James m said:


> That was a good read. I did always think about Mumbai style attacks.


Yeah...those were horrible attacks...the Jew family was butchered..that shows how demonic they are....btw..the mumbai attacks happened just 50 yards away from my office...and the station where I daily commute
Just for info brothers n sisters...the arrival of islam was predicted in "bhavishya purana"
Just google it..but carefull to read Hindu version...
I think coming days are going to get worse...
If govt doesnt do its part...we need to be hyper-vigilant. ..


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## Wise Prepper

Its coming. It has to. They aren't done with us till one of us is all dead..


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## Maine-Marine

We really need to pay a little game of Cowboys and Muslims....

and yes we need to get rid of all the Muslims in the USA and require them to leave the country...

Sort of like closing time at the bar..You do not have to go home- BUT you can not stay HERE


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## Zed

Buddhism (my faith) is all about non-voilence..//sad//
Hindus are more sheepish than sheep itself...
Jews are fighting to survive..
But only one religion gave heads on to Islam...and that is Christianity. ...
This time humanity needs it again...


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## MikeyPrepper

This is getting out of hand



Maine-Marine said:


> We really need to pay a little game of Cowboys and Muslims....
> 
> and yes we need to get rid of all the Muslims in the USA and require them to leave the country...
> 
> Sort of like closing time at the bar..You do not have to go home- BUT you can not stay HERE


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## Chipper

Maine-Marine said:


> We really need to pay a little game of Cowboys and Muslims....
> 
> and yes we need to get rid of all the Muslims in the USA and require them to leave the country...
> 
> Sort of like closing time at the bar..You do not have to go home- BUT you can not stay HERE


 We should have the attitude with ebola.


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## DerBiermeister

MikeyPrepper said:


> I will make sure to give my family each walkie talkies as we are all within 20 miles of each other


A word to the wise -- if you've never owned a set of those walkie talkies --- When they say 20 mile range, you'll be lucky to get a mile and a half in normal terrain (some woods, small hills, etc.). Only if you are talking mountain top to mountain top can you realize 20 miles.


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## Kauboy

Maine-Marine said:


> We really need to pay a little game of Cowboys and Muslims....
> 
> and yes we need to get rid of all the Muslims in the USA and require them to leave the country...
> 
> Sort of like closing time at the bar..You do not have to go home- BUT you can not stay HERE


This goes against the very idea of America...


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## MikeyPrepper

I bought 50 mile range ones.



DerBiermeister said:


> A word to the wise -- if you've never owned a set of those walkie talkies --- When they say 20 mile range, you'll be lucky to get a mile and a half in normal terrain (some woods, small hills, etc.). Only if you are talking mountain top to mountain top can you realize 20 miles.


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## DerBiermeister

MikeyPrepper said:


> I bought 50 mile range ones.


Ahhh ... forget what I said. 

Have you tested a distance yet? Just curious


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## BagLady

That was very informative. Thanks for posting it. I do agree with Maine Marine. The "home grown" muslims in our country cannot be trusted. They already proved that when they piloted our planes into the Twin Towers, etc.


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## Wallimiyama

Kauboy said:


> This goes against the very idea of America...


Islam goes against the very idea of America.

Islam is not just religion...it's Theocracy. It cannot abide our system of laws and way of life. It is not compatible.


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## Denton

Kauboy said:


> This goes against the very idea of America...


Not as much as one might think, but that is now beside the point.

Islam has heen recruiting within our prisons for decades. Our last two presidents have opened the floodgates so that those who follow a system contrary to that which the founders forged may gain a foothold. Our judicial system has become activist against our own foundation.

We are in deep trouble and we can't export it.


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## MikeyPrepper

Yea my mother in law is like 17 miles away and worked good



DerBiermeister said:


> Ahhh ... forget what I said.
> 
> Have you tested a distance yet? Just curious


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## DerBiermeister

MikeyPrepper said:


> Yea my mother in law is like 17 miles away and worked good


17 miles is fantastic. What brand? I ask because not all brands live up to their claims.


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## oddapple

(Edited a lot) I had to let that go I guess I not the one to really put to many fine points on things. But I think folks are getting "American" more and more everyday. Heh I can say that if I want to.


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## MikeyPrepper

Motorla



DerBiermeister said:


> 17 miles is fantastic. What brand? I ask because not all brands live up to their claims.


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## Maine-Marine

Kauboy said:


> This goes against the very idea of America...


I do not think so...can you explain how it is unamerican

-------------
Second suggestion... Muslims can not

move to the USA
use our colleges or flight schools for education
join the military


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## Kauboy

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not think so...can you explain how it is unamerican
> 
> -------------
> Second suggestion... Muslims can not
> 
> move to the USA
> use our colleges or flight schools for education
> join the military


It violates the very premise of our legal system.
You must first do something illegal before you can be punished.
To label an entire culture as criminal because they share a belief system with criminals is illogical, and farcical.

You are basically advocating a witch hunt.

America is the land of the free.
You are FREE to practice any religion you wish, as long as it complies with our laws.
To arbitrarily dictate that one religion is illegal, and its practitioners should be removed, is a direct violation of the 1st amendment.

Do I really have to teach this lesson to supposed patriots?
True liberty means that we won't always get along.
It does NOT mean that *opinions* should overrule the *rights* of others.

There must be a reason for an individual to be punishable.
If they violate law, they meet this criteria.
NOT BEFORE.
The concept is not a difficult one.

I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR MUSLIMS.
I AM ADVOCATING FOR FAIRNESS.
I do not condone witch hunts.


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## Sharkbait

MikeyPrepper said:


> Motorla


I bought the 20 mile ones myself (Motorola's too).

At best,standing on two hilltops on a clear cloudless day about 2 1/2 miles,lol.

I'm saving now for a better set.


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## Sharkbait

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not think so...can you explain how it is unamerican
> 
> -------------
> Second suggestion... Muslims can not
> 
> move to the USA
> use our colleges or flight schools for education
> join the military


Or collect welfare,social security or any other government benefits.


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## Arklatex

I got the midland 30 mile range WTs. I get about 2 miles. Seems to be the max range no matter what brand you buy. I think 2 miles is fine for walky talkies.


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## StarPD45

MikeyPrepper said:


> Motorla


Do you have the model number handy? Sounds good. Even my 5 watt units won't do that.


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## Camel923

This is something we all know. We are responsible for our own survival because when the SHTF all those political types will be running to/already hiding in the tall grass or ordering our eradication. Of course our government is reactionary. What bureaucracy isn't? The biggest problem is that the current regime is not only reactionary but too stubborn to change course to miss the on coming train because the political doctrine says not to change course, who cares about the on coming train.


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## Wallimiyama

Kauboy said:


> It violates the very premise of our legal system.
> You must first do something illegal before you can be punished.
> To label an entire culture as criminal because they share a belief system with criminals is illogical, and farcical.
> 
> You are basically advocating a witch hunt.
> 
> America is the land of the free.
> You are FREE to practice any religion you wish, as long as it complies with our laws.
> To arbitrarily dictate that one religion is illegal, and its practitioners should be removed, is a direct violation of the 1st amendment.
> 
> Do I really have to teach this lesson to supposed patriots?
> True liberty means that we won't always get along.
> It does NOT mean that *opinions* should overrule the *rights* of others.
> 
> There must be a reason for an individual to be punishable.
> If they violate law, they meet this criteria.
> NOT BEFORE.
> The concept is not a difficult one.
> 
> I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR MUSLIMS.
> I AM ADVOCATING FOR FAIRNESS.
> I do not condone witch hunts.


Ah...so the law's against gang activity and organized crime are un-American?

Limiting activities of groups and individuals that want to eliminate and replace the constitution is un-American?

Witches do not exist. Groups (Islam) that want to eliminate our way of life are real. This isn't a witch-hunt...it's self preservation.

Please remember that Islam isn't a "religion"...it's a Theocracy. To deny this is to deny the very fabric of Islam. Theocracy cannot co-exist with our constitution.


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## oddapple

Yeah i'm afraid wallimyama got ya there. Discussing and protesting foe redress of government is not conspiracy to commit mayhem. That is all they brag about?


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## Maine-Marine

Kauboy said:


> It violates the very premise of our legal system.
> You must first do something illegal before you can be punished.
> To label an entire culture as criminal because they share a belief system with criminals is illogical, and farcical.
> 
> You are basically advocating a witch hunt.
> 
> America is the land of the free.
> You are FREE to practice any religion you wish, as long as it complies with our laws.
> To arbitrarily dictate that one religion is illegal, and its practitioners should be removed, is a direct violation of the 1st amendment.
> 
> Do I really have to teach this lesson to supposed patriots?
> True liberty means that we won't always get along.
> It does NOT mean that *opinions* should overrule the *rights* of others.
> 
> There must be a reason for an individual to be punishable.
> If they violate law, they meet this criteria.
> NOT BEFORE.
> The concept is not a difficult one.
> 
> I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR MUSLIMS.
> I AM ADVOCATING FOR FAIRNESS.
> I do not condone witch hunts.


It is apparent to me that followers of Islam are not in line with the America I know and love. This is a matter of security..and while some folks do not get it...Islam is against the US...the Koran advocates killing us.

Common sense tells me that we need to get the foxes out of the hen house and keep them out.

Maybe my idea is unconstitutional..if so..SO WHAT....we can change that...

right now...
Can Your U.S. Citizenship Be Revoked?

Although rare, it is possible for a naturalized U.S. citizen to have his or her citizenship stripped through a process called "denaturalization." Former citizens who are denaturalized are subject to removal (deportation) from the United States. 
Grounds for Denaturalization

Membership in Subversive Groups: Your citizenship may be revoked if the U.S. government can prove that you joined a subversive organization within five years of becoming a naturalized citizen. Membership in such organizations is considered a violation of the oath of U.S. allegiance. Examples include the Nazi Party and Al Qaeda.

SO - we pass law that anybody who attempts to replace the constitution with SHARI Law or that joins or aids an ISLAMIC group will have their citizenship revoked.


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## Kauboy

Wallimiyama said:


> Ah...so the law's against gang activity and organized crime are un-American?
> 
> Limiting activities of groups and individuals that want to eliminate and replace the constitution is un-American?
> 
> Witches do not exist. Groups (Islam) that want to eliminate our way of life are real. This isn't a witch-hunt...it's self preservation.
> 
> Please remember that Islam isn't a "religion"...it's a Theocracy. To deny this is to deny the very fabric of Islam. Theocracy cannot co-exist with our constitution.


You are correct, it cannot.
But that is for them to accept and adjust to, not for us to violate the very fabric of what freedom is.
You hyperbole is unnecessary. Practicing Muslims are not, by definition, a gang of any kind.
Thugs who commit violent crimes while proclaiming to follow some religious doctrine are the ones who should be punished. (regardless of which doctrine they cite)

It boils down to this...
Sharia can never exist in this country as long as the 1st Amendment exists.
The 1st amendment will never be changed as long as the 2nd Amendment exists.
The 2nd Amendment will never be change as long as you and I are prepared to keep it.

Our system is built with safeguards to keep evil doctrine from taking hold.

Practice whatever crazy belief you want, but he SECOND you step on my rights, you will be stomped to dust.
Treat others as you wish to be treated.
I don't want my rights violated, thus I will not violate the rights of another.
Simple.


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## Arklatex

Maine-Marine said:


> right now...
> Can Your U.S. Citizenship Be Revoked?
> 
> Although rare, it is possible for a naturalized U.S. citizen to have his or her citizenship stripped through a process called "denaturalization." Former citizens who are denaturalized are subject to removal (deportation) from the United States.
> Grounds for Denaturalization
> 
> Membership in Subversive Groups: Your citizenship may be revoked if the U.S. government can prove that you joined a subversive organization within five years of becoming a naturalized citizen. Membership in such organizations is considered a violation of the oath of U.S. allegiance. Examples include the Nazi Party and Al Qaeda.


The keyword there is naturalized. It doesn't apply to natural born citizens. So if a muslim who was born here goes and fights for isis there is currently no laws in place that allow for the revocation of their citizenship. The only way for a natural born citizen to lose citizenship is to volunteer. There are some politicians trying to pass a bill that basically states going overseas to fight for a known terror organization is equivalent to voluntarily renouncing citizenship.


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## Jeep

I keep seeing Unconstitutional !, How many of these people are not citizens and how does are constitutional rights system apply to them....it doesn't deport forever those who are not citizens that have done wrong. Start sending South and Central Americans to the middle east if thats the next flight out. Not our problem


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## Kauboy

Jeep said:


> I keep seeing Unconstitutional !, How many of these people are not citizens and how does are constitutional rights system apply to them....it doesn't deport forever those who are not citizens *that have done wrong*. Start sending South and Central Americans to the middle east if thats the next flight out. Not our problem


I added emphasis to the important part. *THAT* is key to the discussion. Some are failing to recognize this.

As for why rights apply, the rights spelled out in our constitution are not granted to us by the document. They are provided in the text in order to dictate to a government that these are non-negotiable.
The rights themselves exist simply because we are human, not because we are American citizens, and thus apply to all people.


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## StarPD45

Arklatex said:


> The keyword there is naturalized. It doesn't apply to natural born citizens. So if a muslim who was born here goes and fights for isis there is currently no laws in place that allow for the revocation of their citizenship. The only way for a natural born citizen to lose citizenship is to volunteer. There are some politicians trying to pass a bill that basically states going overseas to fight for a known terror organization is equivalent to voluntarily renouncing citizenship.


Unfortunately, being former military is almost considered the same.
They can't take our citizenship, but they can put you in an internment camp. At least that's their plan.
'
As far as voluntarily renouncing your citizenship, the price now is $2350.00, plus a large chunk of your assets if they are over a certain amount.


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## chris135825

We DO no to start up an old American witch hunt, hang then from the white house and arm every American like the old days. Show the world usa will drop the hammer hard.


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## Deebo

So, when do you guys take the gloves off?
Let's just say, that my religion is txywnd, and my beliefs are that I should kill anyone that doesn't bow down and accept my religion. I have been taught, since birth, that the only way to achieve eternal life is to KILL AS MANY NONBELIEVERS as I can. 
I am sworn to KILL you, that is my calling. 
Would you live timidly next door to me?
Would you let me borrow a cup of sugar?
Obviously, I'm a GOD fearing man, but the scenario is the same. 
Sorry, your mission statement is to KILL me, and you think I'm gonna wait for you to draw on me?
Again, I ask you , how many more American beheadings will be enough, five, ten?
How many Christians lined up and shot dead in the streets?
Again, I ask you, how many babies getting their heads stomped in is enough?
It's war people, we might have been dragged into it, but it is STILL WAR. 
I will not fight fair. 
My gloves are off, my knives are sharp, my batteries are charged, and that's all I wanna add.


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## Titan6

Interesting article Thank for the posting!!


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## Zed

Kauboy said:


> It violates the very premise of our legal system.
> You must first do something illegal before you can be punished.
> To label an entire culture as criminal because they share a belief system with criminals is illogical, and farcical.
> 
> You are basically advocating a witch hunt.
> 
> America is the land of the free.
> You are FREE to practice any religion you wish, as long as it complies with our laws.
> To arbitrarily dictate that one religion is illegal, and its practitioners should be removed, is a direct violation of the 1st amendment.
> 
> Do I really have to teach this lesson to supposed patriots?
> True liberty means that we won't always get along.
> It does NOT mean that *opinions* should overrule the *rights* of others.
> 
> There must be a reason for an individual to be punishable.
> If they violate law, they meet this criteria.
> NOT BEFORE.
> The concept is not a difficult one.
> 
> I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR MUSLIMS.
> I AM ADVOCATING FOR FAIRNESS.
> I do not condone witch hunts.


Whatever you say is the most problematic attitude of all not-acting people..Muslims use the very basic tenets of Democracy against the native people...
Wait until they get 15-20% of population. Then i bet with my soul that you will cry blood tears.
The Thailand Jihad

This happened in India...
I will give examples..at independence Pakistan had 41% non-muslims...after 70 years there population is below 10%..they are attacked, raped, slaughtered like lambs..same with Bangladesh...same with Jammu and Kashmir State of India..same is going in Syria/Nigeria and same is going in ISIS...
Lets think of situation.....Ku-Klax Klan killed blacks..many whites condemned it..
ISIS is killing thousands of non-sunnis and raping, enslaving, slaughtering women, children, where is the condemnation?
Muslims ALWAYS support quietly or openly...
And in your life-time you will off-coarse see the examples of silent takeovers of western countries..and the very 'Right to religion' thing, you will regret.. 
Cause the OP said only for Muslims..not any other religion...and yes we all say only against muslims...do we say a thing against any other religion?


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## Zed

Kauboy said:


> You are correct, it cannot.
> Sharia can never exist in this country as long as the 1st Amendment exists.
> The 1st amendment will never be changed as long as the 2nd Amendment exists.
> The 2nd Amendment will never be change as long as you and I are prepared to keep it.


Even sharia is un-constitutional in Britain, France..then why those countries have Sharia-no-go Zones?
Whatever YOUR constitution says is NONE of there concern..They will use TAQIYYA to get in your country and when they have ample population..They will install what rules they want..its simple as that..


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## Maine-Marine

Kauboy said:


> The rights themselves exist simply because we are human, not because we are American citizens, and thus apply to all people.


I would argue that non-americans are not subject to our bill of rights and being non-americans are not entiltled to their protections


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## Kauboy

Maine-Marine said:


> I would argue that non-americans are not subject to our bill of rights and being non-americans are not entitled to their protections


Argue it all you want, but you would be arguing with the founders of our country, not with me.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that *all men* are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain *unalienable* Rights, that *among these* are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Three are explicitly provided in the Declaration, others are provided in the constitution, still others exist that are not explicitly defined.

Your rights don't exist simply because you are an American.
If things were so simple, your rights could be stripped from you simply by stripping your citizenship.

Our bill of rights was laid out in order to hold our government accountable when they violate the stated rights.
They were not laid out in order to grant any rights to us.
The rights predate all forms of government.


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## Kauboy

Zed said:


> Even sharia is un-constitutional in Britain, France..then why those countries have Sharia-no-go Zones?
> Whatever YOUR constitution says is NONE of there concern..They will use TAQIYYA to get in your country and when they have ample population..They will install what rules they want..its simple as that..


They can try.
You seem to have us confused with the limp-spined cowards of other countries.
We have a long history of fighting for what is right.
If they ever try, they will be met with a violence they haven't seen since the Crusades.
We will not go quietly.

But we should not stomp on the foundations of liberty and rattle our sabers for no actual cause.


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## Kauboy

Deebo said:


> So, when do you guys take the gloves off?
> Let's just say, that my religion is txywnd, and my beliefs are that I should kill anyone that doesn't bow down and accept my religion. I have been taught, since birth, that the only way to achieve eternal life is to KILL AS MANY NONBELIEVERS as I can.
> I am sworn to KILL you, that is my calling.
> Would you live timidly next door to me?
> Would you let me borrow a cup of sugar?
> Obviously, I'm a GOD fearing man, but the scenario is the same.
> Sorry, your mission statement is to KILL me, and you think I'm gonna wait for you to draw on me?
> Again, I ask you , how many more American beheadings will be enough, five, ten?
> How many Christians lined up and shot dead in the streets?
> Again, I ask you, how many babies getting their heads stomped in is enough?
> It's war people, we might have been dragged into it, but it is STILL WAR.
> I will not fight fair.
> My gloves are off, my knives are sharp, my batteries are charged, and that's all I wanna add.


I don't mean to call you out, but what exactly have you done?
Big words don't do much.
You ask us how much we'll take, you claim to be done waiting...
Yet you're waiting...
This kind of talk solves nothing.
Do something, or drop the act.

I have a feeling you won't do anything, since you see the truth of the matter that I'm speaking about.
The vast majority have done nothing to illicit a response.

As for your scenario, believe what you wish.
Violate my rights, get snuffed out of existence.
Capisce?


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## Deebo

Kauboy said:


> I don't mean to call you out, but what exactly have you done?
> Big words don't do much.
> You ask us how much we'll take, you claim to be done waiting...
> Yet you're waiting...
> This kind of talk solves nothing.
> Do something, or drop the act.
> 
> I have a feeling you won't do anything, since you see the truth of the matter that I'm speaking about.
> The vast majority have done nothing to illicit a response.
> 
> As for your scenario, believe what you wish.
> Violate my rights, get snuffed out of existence.
> Capisce?


First, "the gloves are off" referes to the way that Deebo will be posting on this forum, as stated earlier. No more p.c. biting my tongue , when and I'm sure not if, but when people get offended, tough.
Second, you literally just said to me, to put up or shut up, then make the same scenerio, that if they try to violate your rights, you will snuff them out.
Exactly what I was saying....
I am not suggesting we start killing every person*that is Muslim, I'm saying, their is no place in America, for true Muslims. 
I haven't read the Koran, but from my basic knowledge, the scenerio I described is Muslim, convert, or die? Is that not their tagline?
As far as what have I done, I have done the same thing you have done, worked my shifts, stocked some extra things I feel will insure my future, and and made peace with my GOD, knowing that I am trying to get to heaven.
Do I want war? Hell no, but would I go to war?
Yes. 
I don't have the answers, I'm sure our founding fathers couldn't imagine the plethera of scenerios that face is now, and, that's why they allowed for changes to be made, and set forth ways to change things.
I have enjoyed many conversations on this board, and I get a little heated sometimes, but I try to be respectful and mindful.
Thanks Kauboy.


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## Kauboy

I apologize for misinterpreting your post.
It sounded a lot like you were ready to start slitting throats.

Our founders were stewards of history. They knew of Islam even then. The Crusades happened long before America's founding.
Our constitution was written to safeguard our new country from ever being able to accept a form of government like Sharia.
However, it all hinges on "we the people's" ability to defend it.

Stay vigilant and never back down.


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## Denton

Kauboy said:


> Argue it all you want, but you would be arguing with the founders of our country, not with me.
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that *all men* are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain *unalienable* Rights, that *among these* are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
> Three are explicitly provided in the Declaration, others are provided in the constitution, still others exist that are not explicitly defined.
> 
> Your rights don't exist simply because you are an American.
> If things were so simple, your rights could be stripped from you simply by stripping your citizenship.
> 
> Our bill of rights was laid out in order to hold our government accountable when they violate the stated rights.
> They were not laid out in order to grant any rights to us.
> The rights predate all forms of government.


There is a flaw in your thinking, though. Those who you suggest are protected by the system the founders forged are the ones who are not in agreement with what you hold dear.

It isn't that they prefer the moon god of ancient Arabia over the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that causes them to be a threat to our way of life, but the governmental/military aspects of the belief system they embrace.



> They can try.
> You seem to have us confused with the limp-spined cowards of other countries.
> We have a long history of fighting for what is right.
> If they ever try, they will be met with a violence they haven't seen since the Crusades.
> We will not go quietly.
> 
> But we should not stomp on the foundations of liberty and rattle our sabers for no actual cause.


Really? No, we do not have that long history. Our government has a long history of getting us involved in wars, but We, the People, do not have that long history to which you refer. As a matter of fact, our history indicates we don't even have the fortitude to resist something as simple as protecting our culture from degradation. Had we possessed that internal fortitude, our culture would not be defined and molded by the filth that is spewed by the entertainment industry and the advertising companies, nor would the pied pipers of mega churches have best selling books have more sway on the "Christian" sectors of the nation than the true Author of liberty and His book.

No, our wars have been directed by those in power. Those in power, both this president as well as the last, have allowed those who view our system as something to conquer to flood into this country. Why is that, one must ponder. All the while, the God of our forefathers is told He has no place in our nation, and those who prefer to follow Him rather than the god of mammon are told they should shut up and keep to themselves. Again, one must wonder why that is.

Today, there are places in this nation where non-Muslims do not go because it is ruled not by the laws of nature and nature's God but by the Satanic mandates of Islam. This, just as in larger parts of Europe. When, exactly, do you think we are going to rise up and fight for what is right? Where is this going to happen? As this nation farther devolves into "limp-spined" carnal secularlism and with its ramparts overrun with those who have never even as much as heard of the Bill of Rights or have studied those things that compelled our founding fathers to forge a new nation meant to protect it Christian understanding of individual rights and liberty, how do you expect the citizens to stand up and confront those who have intentions to refashion the cultural landscape to better suit the desires of the Arab moon god?


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## Seneca

I would agree, the vast majority have done nothing to illicit a rash response. However I would not accept that behavior as the norm until it is proven. I think what we have here in the US is a peaceful yet uneasy coexistence between Christians and Muslims. 

That said, I will not convert to islam, I will not abide by Sharia law and I will not pay a tax for holding a belief other than islam. Besides I already have a belief, I live under a system of laws and am taxed to death as it is. So while I hold no animosity towards the Muslims, I view them with some concern.


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> I apologize for misinterpreting your post.
> It sounded a lot like you were ready to start slitting throats.
> 
> Our founders were stewards of history. They knew of Islam even then. The Crusades happened long before America's founding.
> Our constitution was written to safeguard our new country from ever being able to accept a form of government like Sharia.
> However, it all hinges on "we the people's" ability to defend it.
> 
> Stay vigilant and never back down.


The founders didn't understand Mohammadism as you might think. It wasn't until the problems with the Barbary coast pirates that Thomas Jefferson study Islam and become disgusted by it. Remember when Keith Ellison was sworn into office using the Qur'an owned by Thomas Jefferson? Jefferson read it, not because he was mildly interested in the religion, but because he wanted to better understand those who made themselves our enemy. Their was symbolism in that very book being present at Ellision's swearing into office. Islam is no longer on some foreign shore. It is making inroads in every aspect of our nation's being. How is this nation responding? It is bowing to PC pressure while turning its back on the very God that blessed our nation as it struggled to survive.

The first amendment was to insure the federal government did not prefer one _sect_ (denomination, in today's terms) over another. These same people who created this "experiment in society" expected this nation to be a Christian nation and expected it to remember its heritage and the origins of its freedoms. Also, they could not have envisioned the day would come when our people would not remember the truth and would believe the lies of those who are truly striving to stomp on the foundations of liberty. These particular people to which I refer are not the Muslims, by the way.


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> There is a flaw in your thinking, though. Those who you suggest are protected by the system the founders forged are the ones who are not in agreement with what you hold dear.
> 
> It isn't that they prefer the moon god of ancient Arabia over the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that causes them to be a threat to our way of life, but the governmental/military aspects of the belief system they embrace.


It isn't necessary to agree with the American way of life in order to still be offered the freedom she embodies. Where is that ever stated?
You are twisting the argument into one where freedom is conditional upon a belief system. It is not.
Freedom is open to all. This means that you are free to do as you wish, and I am free to do as I wish, as long as neither of us violates the rights of the other.
*IF* they ever decide to violate our rights, that is when they forfeit their freedom.



Denton said:


> Today, there are places in this nation where non-Muslims do not go because it is ruled not by the laws of nature and nature's God but by the Satanic mandates of Islam. This, just as in larger parts of Europe. When, exactly, do you think we are going to rise up and fight for what is right? Where is this going to happen? As this nation farther devolves into "limp-spined" carnal secularlism and with its ramparts overrun with those who have never even as much as heard of the Bill of Rights or have studied those things that compelled our founding fathers to forge a new nation meant to protect it Christian understanding of individual rights and liberty, how do you expect the citizens to stand up and confront those who have intentions to refashion the cultural landscape to better suit the desires of the Arab moon god?


No culture accepts despotism indefinitely. Some suffer it longer than others. History is full of civilizations who reached the same level of apathy as we have. It is not new.
I am not ignorant to the fact that it *could* happen here, but I won't be alive to experience it.
I will take my last breathe after bathing in the blood of those who wish to impose such a culture here.


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> The founders didn't understand Mohammadism as you might think. It wasn't until the problems with the Barbary coast pirates that Thomas Jefferson study Islam and become disgusted by it. Remember when Keith Ellison was sworn into office using the Qur'an owned by Thomas Jefferson? Jefferson read it, not because he was mildly interested in the religion, but because he wanted to better understand those who made themselves our enemy. Their was symbolism in that very book being present at Ellision's swearing into office. Islam is no longer on some foreign shore. It is making inroads in every aspect of our nation's being. How is this nation responding? It is bowing to PC pressure while turning its back on the very God that blessed our nation as it struggled to survive.
> 
> The first amendment was to insure the federal government did not prefer one _sect_ (denomination, in today's terms) over another. These same people who created this "experiment in society" expected this nation to be a Christian nation and expected it to remember its heritage and the origins of its freedoms. Also, they could not have envisioned the day would come when our people would not remember the truth and would believe the lies of those who are truly striving to stomp on the foundations of liberty. These particular people to which I refer are not the Muslims, by the way.


They knew history.
The events that lead to the fall of Greece and Rome were still taught, even then.
They fully understood that complacency could emerge, and tyranny could once again take hold.
The constitution was written to safegaurd against this, but a document cannot guarantee against it.
The expectation that America would last forever is foolish. No wise man would expect such.


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> It isn't necessary to agree with the American way of life in order to still be offered the freedom she embodies. Where is that ever stated?
> You are twisting the argument into one where freedom is conditional upon a belief system. It is not.
> Freedom is open to all. This means that you are free to do as you wish, and I am free to do as I wish, as long as neither of us violates the rights of the other.
> *IF* they ever decide to violate our rights, that is when they forfeit their freedom.


I am twisting nothing. Reread the exact words to which you responded. It isn't the worship of the Arab moon good that is the problem, but the rest of the system that is imported with it.



> No culture accepts despotism indefinitely. Some suffer it longer than others. History is full of civilizations who reached the same level of apathy as we have. It is not new.
> I am not ignorant to the fact that it *could* happen here, but I won't be alive to experience it.
> I will take my last breathe after bathing in the blood of those who wish to impose such a culture here.


As I made perfectly clear, it is happening here, already. Why are you not already covered in blood?


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> I am twisting nothing. Reread the exact words to which you responded. It isn't the worship of the Arab moon good that is the problem, but the rest of the system that is imported with it.


We are not forbidden from thinking a certain way.
Irrespective of whether the context is religion, or something else, we can think whatever we want to think.
The "system" is irrelevant until they try to make it official.



Denton said:


> As I made perfectly clear, it is happening here, already. Why are you not already covered in blood?


Which of my rights have they violated?


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> We are not forbidden from thinking a certain way.
> Irrespective of whether the context is religion, or something else, we can think whatever we want to think.
> The "system" is irrelevant until they try to make it official.


Did I say otherwise? Did I say anything about thinking? Who is twisting?

On the other hand, let's look at it from the point of what Muhammad instructed his followers to do. They are not only to spread Islam by open confrontation on the battlefield, but to also infiltrate dar al harb and attack the indigenous cultures from within while hiding the true motives though the practice of taqiyya. That is to say, military action as well as espionage and infiltration.

Again, and as I quite clearly said, the worship of the Arab moon god is not the problem.


> Which of my rights have they violated?


"I will take my last breathe after bathing in the blood of those who wish to impose such a culture here."

Again, who is twisting? I responded to what you said. Go forth to those areas within this nation where sharia is imposed, non-Muslims are intimidated, and bathe in blood.

Then again, and as I already pondered, why is it that those who believe and practice a countering system of rule are allowed to flood into this nation and set up footholds and beach heads? In who's blood should you bathe?

Meanwhile, this nation is spiritually corrupt and prefers self indulgence over the discipline and religion of the forefathers. That is to say, our spiritual immunity has been compromised, and that it was being compromised long before the invading body was being imported by our government.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Maine-Marine said:


> I would argue that non-americans are not subject to our bill of rights and being non-americans are not entiltled to their protections


Fine. Non Americans are not entitled to the protections of Cruel and Unusual Punishment and Due Process of Law. Its time to execute the next Canadian for a parking violation in NY.


----------



## dannydefense

Sockpuppet said:


> Fine. Non Americans are not entitled to the protections of Cruel and Unusual Punishment and Due Process of Law. Its time to execute the next Canadian for a parking violation in NY.


Why always with the Canadians?


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> Fine. Non Americans are not entitled to the protections of Cruel and Unusual Punishment and Due Process of Law. Its time to execute the next Canadian for a parking violation in NY.


A parking violation?

A traffic code? Are you wanting to debate the difference between traffic and commercial codes and the laws of nature and nature's God? :lol:

I agree with you about the syntax errors committed by our friend from Maine, though.


----------



## Denton

dannydefense said:


> Why always with the Canadians?


Somebody has to be that guy. :lol:


----------



## Sockpuppet

I never imagined the level of bigotry I just encountered on this thread.



> Bigot:
> A person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.
> A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group.
> A person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
> One who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Denton said:


> A parking violation?
> 
> A traffic code? Are you wanting to debate the difference between traffic and commercial codes and the laws of nature and nature's God? :lol:
> 
> I agree with you about the syntax errors committed by our friend from Maine, though.


It was an attempt to demonstrate the ridiculousness of the statement that there are no protections, or should be no protections for those without American citizenship.


----------



## Sockpuppet

dannydefense said:


> Why always with the Canadians?





Denton said:


> Somebody has to be that guy. :lol:


Take off, you hoseheads.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> I never imagined the level of bigotry I just encountered on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Bigot:
> A person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc.
> A person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group.
> A person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
> One who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance.
Click to expand...

Here, let me help you out...

Arab Terrorists Try to Burn Jews Alive in Capital - Defense/Security - News - Arutz Sheva

How a Jewish French Girl Joined ISIS - Jewish World - News - Arutz Sheva

Doubly damned as a Syrian and a Christian convert | Toronto Star

Court upholds death penalty of Aasia Bibi ? The Express Tribune

You are being redirected...

Husband kills wife with help of son in Fujairah - Emirates 24/7

Turkish football coach attacked by fans after trainer?s anti-ISIL tweets - TURKEY

Two Attempted Murders by Boko Haram Show Islamic Extremist Motives « Persecution News

Three Police Officers Among Eight Killed in New Xinjiang Violence

Danish imam calls Jews 'offspring of apes and pigs' | The Times of Israel

Muslims Vandalize De?ani Monastery with Islamic Threats and Islamic State Graffiti | Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

Witnesses Describe Jihadist Horror in Kobane, as ISIS Justifies Enslaving Yazidis

EXPOSED: Jihadi kidnap and murder handbook... and plan to infiltrate British Army and police | Daily Mail Online

Muslim Married British Woman, Killed Her, Sold Children into Slavery | FrontPage Magazine

http://www.crossmap.com/news/christian-women-raped-by-isis-12716

You are being redirected...

Nigeria: Boko Haram Torch 185 Churches in Captured Towns of Borno and Adamawa

Sorry about not offering enough examples of real bigotry; some of us are not retired and must still go to work. :lol:


----------



## oddapple

Bwahahaha! Thank you very much. That was a hoot!


----------



## Deebo

Sockpuppet said:


> I never imagined the level of bigotry I just encountered on this thread.


Sorry bubba, I'm a bigot I guess. 
When someone admits openly that their main goal is to KILL me, be it today, tommoro, or next year, and kill my family, and I am supposed to "just accept that", or I am intolerant?
Am I ready to out hunting and killing, no, but I won't be caught off guard.


----------



## Sockpuppet

To arbitrarily take an *entire group of people* and imprison them; or commit genocide upon them; or otherwise commit them to endure some form of cruel and inhumane treatment; simply because you believe the entire group, regardless of the individual, to be a danger to one's own preferences........that is by definition, bigotry.

However, if we're going to be bigoted, lets be fair in its execution.

First the Muslims, because they're only looking to bomb and decapitate us.

Next: I recommend that we imprison the entire Black and Hispanic communities, because those entire races are nothing more than thieves, murderers, prostitutes, dope dealers, and junkies. We can allow the Mexicans to work on the prison farms.

Furthermore, we also imprison everyone of Italian descent, because they are all mafiaso. The Germans, we lock up, because they're nothing more than a bunch of race hating Nazi wannabe skinheads and Klan members.

Because Westboro Baptists are Baptists, and all Baptists must be the same......so we should definitely exorcize the those practicing that entire religion from society.

I can go on, but you get the point.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Denton said:


> Here, let me help you out...(snip)
> 
> Sorry about not offering enough examples of real bigotry; some of us are not retired and must still go to work. :lol:


How many examples of those who purport themselves as "Christian", did you list? After all, David Koresh and Jim Jones certainly did what they did in the name of Jesus.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> How many examples of those who purport themselves as "Christian", did you list? After all, David Koresh and Jim Jones certainly did what they did in the name of Jesus.


Do I have to remind you of the fact that Koresh and Jones didn't have a large following of people who were abiding by the tenets of Christianity and were slaughtering people in order to 1- make everyone submit to their teachings, and 2- spread a military/governmental/pseudo religious system throughout the world?

Furthermore, those two you mentioned were about themselves and not Jesus. A study on those cases as well as an understanding of the teachings of Jesus makes this abundantly clear.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> To arbitrarily take an *entire group of people* and imprison them; or commit genocide upon them; or otherwise commit them to endure some form of cruel and inhumane treatment; simply because you believe the entire group, regardless of the individual, to be a danger to one's own preferences........that is by definition, bigotry.
> 
> However, if we're going to be bigoted, lets be fair in its execution.
> 
> First the Muslims, because they're only looking to bomb and decapitate us.
> 
> Next: I recommend that we imprison the entire Black and Hispanic communities, because those entire races are nothing more than thieves, murderers, prostitutes, dope dealers, and junkies. We can allow the Mexicans to work on the prison farms.
> 
> Furthermore, we also imprison everyone of Italian descent, because they are all mafiaso. The Germans, we lock up, because they're nothing more than a bunch of race hating Nazi wannabe skinheads and Klan members.
> 
> Because Westboro Baptists are Baptists, and all Baptists must be the same......so we should definitely exorcize the those practicing that entire religion from society.
> 
> I can go on, but you get the point.


I get the point, and understand that your point is erroneous at every angle.

Being Arab, for example, doesn't make one Muslim any more than one being German makes him a Nazi.

On the other hand, fully understanding Islam and the threat it poses to all other religions, cultures and philosophies (that is to say, those areas of the world considered dar al harb and not dar al Islam) doesn't make one a bigot. It makes one aware.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Its erroneous the believe Islam and with it, every Muslim is a threat. Lumping a radical within a group, to damn the entire group, is in fact, bigoted.

Fully understanding the Muslim religion, is a world of difference from understanding radical Islam. There are many good Muslims who follow the word of God, without practicing the radicalization that a minority purport.

Understanding radical Islam and the threat it poses, is merely sensible. Just as its sensible to understand the radical Christian fray.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> Its erroneous the believe Islam and with it, every Muslim is a threat. Lumping a radical within a group, to damn the entire group, is in fact, bigoted.
> 
> Fully understanding the Muslim religion, is a world of difference from understanding radical Islam. There are many good Muslims who follow the word of God, without practicing the radicalization that a minority purport.
> 
> Understanding radical Islam and the threat it poses, is merely sensible. Just as its sensible to understand the radical Christian fray.


I understand Islam. Islam is, in itself, what you call radical.

Radical Christianity? Do you really understand Christianity so little as to think that the isolated "radicals" are really cases of over the top Christianity?

I would learn more about the Christian faith as well as the Islamic system.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Denton said:


> I understand Islam. Islam is, in itself, what you call radical.
> 
> Radical Christianity? Do you really understand Christianity so little as to think that the isolated "radicals" are really cases of over the top Christianity?
> 
> I would learn more about the Christian faith as well as the Islamic system.


I understand both Christianity, Islam, and a whole number of other religions as well. I've prayed to the same God, conversed, and broken bread with men and women of all faiths. That said, each faith has both its good and bad people within it.

The KKK is an example of a terrorist organization that performed their deeds in the name of the Christian God. Why is it so hard to believe that they're just an evil as ISIS? Why would you separate the KKK from Christianity, but not ISIS from Islam?

Islam itself, is not intrinsically radical or evil, despite what we see in the news today. Neither is Christianity, despite the atrocities performed in its name, as well as endorsed by mainstream religions.

Correlation does not equate to causation, and the belief that Islam is evil is based little more than ignorance, speculation, and emotion.


----------



## Smitty901

No surprise
"Aviv recently created & executed a security test for our Congress, by placing an empty briefcase in five well-traveled spots in five major cities. The results? Not one person called 911 or sought a policeman to check the unattended briefcase out. In fact, in Chicago, someone tried to steal the briefcase! - See more at: http://www.your-poc.com/you-cant-handle-the-trust-says-an-israeli-intelligence-agent/#sthash.uk7ZpJFy.dpuf"

Islam at it's core is pure evil, there are NO moderate museums. The ones the pretend to be moderate are the bank rollers of the extreme.
Spent to much time in the middle east to convince me any different.


----------



## thepeartree

Denton said:


> Do I have to remind you of the fact that Koresh and Jones didn't have a large following of people who were abiding by the tenets of Christianity and were slaughtering people in order to 1- make everyone submit to their teachings, and 2- spread a military/governmental/pseudo religious system throughout the world?
> 
> Furthermore, those two you mentioned were about themselves and not Jesus. A study on those cases as well as an understanding of the teachings of Jesus makes this abundantly clear.


You're absolutely right. It's not fair unless you want to list christians in there. In the early 1300's they went through what is now Germany and Austria and told people to convert or die. I forget how many thousands were killed. Then you get to the Crusades. Well, you get the idea. The Bible says it: let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf

People need to realize that ISIS is following the Quran not the moderate Muslims if there is such a thing. The Christian religion never agreed with the KKK so stop trying to use it as a comparison. 
How are we ever to defeat our enemy if we aren't willing to even recognize them because it isn't PC. 
The Quran's Verses of Violence


----------



## Wise Prepper

thepeartree said:


> You're absolutely right. It's not fair unless you want to list christians in there. In the early 1300's they went through what is now Germany and Austria and told people to convert or die. I forget how many thousands were killed. Then you get to the Crusades. Well, you get the idea. The Bible says it: let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


That was the old testament. Almost all Christians are taught to live by the new testament. Nice try though~! BTW the joke of a book called the koran is a rewritten bible (old testament) So all muslims are at least ignorant..


----------



## oddapple

Wise Prepper said:


> That was the old testament. Almost all Christians are taught to live by the new testament. Nice try though~! BTW the joke of a book called the koran is a rewritten bible (old testament) So all muslims are at least ignorant..


What I never get about that phony argument is that right now, at this minute, islam is at jihad and saying anything about any other religion is like the "slave reparations" thing - childish, irrelevant and serving only to either justify jihad or apparently? Make people feel "guilty" like they should ever even consider giving up another thing to anyone? More "white/christian/moral guilt so you lose" black magic? Bah! Nobody gives up their place in evolution. They do lose it. Especially when any phony lie gets them to hand their own head away? I think that is called "darwin"
How does christianity's sins or islam's abominations equate to "the stupider, weaker one goes byebye" because that is what Americans are up against. G-d has been made the terrorist to cover for islam's ugly, dumb goals.


----------



## jro1

MikeyPrepper said:


> Hey Guys read this article, very interesting..... I live in the NY area so this hits home..
> 
> "You can't handle the truth" says an Israeli Intelligence Agent


I believe he is a fraud. Israelis don't tend to talk about this stuff, they act and move on to the next job. In fact the only thing they tend to discuss is the operations to capture Nazis, everything else is usually kept black....and he was never on the O'reily show or so he claims! He never predicted anything that Alex jones hasn't predicted...rite?!?! i can predict many things, and in time yes it may come true and i will say "I told you it would happen" years after i made the prediction! pull your heads out of your asses and quit feeding on the daily propaganda!

............mumbles to himself and goes back to prepping!


----------



## Zed

If My Bigotry helps me, my children and their children to live peacefully...
Hell i'm super bigot.


----------



## thepeartree

Wise Prepper said:


> That was the old testament. Almost all Christians are taught to live by the new testament. Nice try though~! BTW the joke of a book called the koran is a rewritten bible (old testament) So all muslims are at least ignorant..


Old testament? No, I use a book more powerful- recorded history. You do remember history, right? Anyway, I only mention these facts because any 'holier than thou' attitude by christians is usually shown by people with tenuous grasp of history.

tw, how do you feel about all the books left out of the new testament? They didn't make the cut (not pc of their day) when the bible was rewritten in about 410 ad. That includes the one about Jesus' wife Mary escaping to Egypt with their daughter.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Wise Prepper said:


> That was the old testament. Almost all Christians are taught to live by the new testament. Nice try though~! BTW the joke of a book called the koran is a rewritten bible (old testament) So all muslims are at least ignorant..


I would argue that all Christians should abide by the teachings in both Testaments. Otherwise, what is the point of Christians studying it?

Given the time it was penned, the Qur'an certainly has its influences from a number of other works as it draws upon both Jewish and Christian traditions and teachings, but it isn't really a plagiarized Old Testament.


----------



## Smitty901

Sockpuppet said:


> I would argue that all Christians should abide by the teachings in both Testaments. Otherwise, what is the point of Christians studying it?
> 
> Given the time it was penned, the Qur'an certainly has its influences from a number of other works as it draws upon both Jewish and Christian traditions and teachings, but it isn't really a plagiarized Old Testament.


 Yes it is.
My one sister lived the first 12 years of her life in the middle east English is her second language, I spent a fair amount of time in the Middle east.
Mark my words there are NO moderate Muslims. None. 
You will never get into an argument with Muslims with the old testament until the subject of Jesus comes up. The city of UR is the birthplace of Abraham and they know it . They are happy to tell you of it. 
So called Moderate Muslims many that come here are just the money support for the extremist and the ones that provide cover and safe house for them.


----------



## oddapple

That is the truth. C'mom "sockpuppet" - what loyalties and religion does the unseen hand that makes the puppet talk really have? It's always pro enemy in the name of ? ? ?
But yes, the kookran is not even a quality religious pilfery? Only the very stupidest believe truth and religion are "platitudes & poetry" with sword conversion the goal and the pitiful state of women the bribe.
But they do not need anything high and I am sure truth offends them greatly.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Smitty901 said:


> Mark my words there are NO moderate Muslims. None.





oddapple said:


> That is the truth. C'mom "sockpuppet"


The dozen or so people I am friends, had dinner with, prayed with, etc.; who just happen to be Muslim, will be greatly shocked that they don't advocate religious tolerance and embrace peace.

As a matter of fact, I should probably call them liars for being openly critical of the actions of Muslim extremists, doing so well before the grand re-opening upon the war on terror in September 2001.

When we start labeling all peoples for their religious affiliations and nationalities, instead of who they are.......just as the Muslim extremists do so about Christians and Americans.......the enemy has already won.


----------



## Smitty901

Sockpuppet said:


> The dozen or so people I am friends, had dinner with, prayed with, etc.; who just happen to be Muslim, will be greatly shocked that they don't advocate religious tolerance and embrace peace.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I should probably call them liars for being openly critical of the actions of Muslim extremists, doing so well before the grand re-opening upon the war on terror in September 2001.
> 
> When we start labeling all peoples for their religious affiliations and nationalities, instead of who they are.......just as the Muslim extremists do so about Christians and Americans.......the enemy has already won.


 Part of their game they will stab you in the back in a heart beat. No moderate Muslims not one. You can not be a Muslim and be Moderate. If they claim to be they are either liars or confused.


----------



## oddapple

Sockpuppet said:


> The dozen or so people I am friends, had dinner with, prayed with, etc.; who just happen to be Muslim, will be greatly shocked that they don't advocate religious tolerance and embrace peace.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I should probably call them liars for being openly critical of the actions of Muslim extremists, doing so well before the grand re-opening upon the war on terror in September 2001.
> 
> When we start labeling all peoples for their religious affiliations and nationalities, instead of who they are.......just as the Muslim extremists do so about Christians and Americans.......the enemy has already won.


Sometimes I get the idea you want everyone to think they already have? So gee, if I back you up and say you are all but right, then there's an aiding sympathizer and a serious critic saying the same thing "talk and passivity, both great lies, have all but given you over haven't they?"
Yes we can agree on that for sure.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> I understand both Christianity, Islam, and a whole number of other religions as well. I've prayed to the same God, conversed, and broken bread with men and women of all faiths. That said, each faith has both its good and bad people within it.
> 
> The KKK is an example of a terrorist organization that performed their deeds in the name of the Christian God. Why is it so hard to believe that they're just an evil as ISIS? Why would you separate the KKK from Christianity, but not ISIS from Islam?
> 
> Islam itself, is not intrinsically radical or evil, despite what we see in the news today. Neither is Christianity, despite the atrocities performed in its name, as well as endorsed by mainstream religions.
> 
> Correlation does not equate to causation, and the belief that Islam is evil is based little more than ignorance, speculation, and emotion.


You do not, in fact, understand Islam at all, do you? That you pray to the gods of other religions doesn't mean you understand any of them, nor does it mean anything that you ate with the members of many religions.

Would you like to go tit-for-tat with news articles about the KKK and Islam? While we do it, feel free to explain how any acts of violence committed by the KKK are in line with Christianity, and I will do the same with Islam. By the way, I have known a few Klansmen, and I have never heard any of them condone violence in the name of Jesus. As with Koresh and Jones, you are merely reaching. If you truly knew the first thing about Christianity, you would know this. Same goes with Islam. Had you studied Qur'an and the hadiths to any degree, you would know what I am saying is correct.

Amazing that you are able to connect odd dots between the likes of Koresh, Jones and the KKK, but miss the glaring and numerous atrocities committed in the name of Allah and in the actual keeping of the commandments of Muhammad (piss be upon him).


----------



## Denton

thepeartree said:


> You're absolutely right. It's not fair unless you want to list christians in there. In the early 1300's they went through what is now Germany and Austria and told people to convert or die. I forget how many thousands were killed. Then you get to the Crusades. Well, you get the idea. The Bible says it: let he who is without sin cast the first stone.


Show me in the Bible where people are to be given the choice of conversion or death. I'll wait.

The Crusades. Yes, we get the idea; the idea that you know a word but have no idea what caused them.

By the way, someone suggested that the conversion or death thing is Old Testament. It is not there, either.


----------



## oddapple

I always thought the crusades were what they were: Shaitan back in the pit for a thousand years and now "loosed again but for yet a little while.." just like the manual says? They were swelling up too big and other people needed the money. Darius found out the same sad thing when he took on Alexander and died on the run of his own generals - like I am thinking another muzzo king might end up doing?
Don't let those trifling affairs distract you from what G-d did say "Make ready and stand fast; for a sword will devour round about you" (Joel chap 2 - timely...)

I do not care about muslim affairs or how people deal with them? The one who pulls their head out and gets it together wins. Down to that. They sure are "sweetly" making every Trojan horse and mole network they can, while people get duped into circular, pointless philosophical arguments. They do not use "philosophy" they use eradication. Look around.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> The dozen or so people I am friends, had dinner with, prayed with, etc.; who just happen to be Muslim, will be greatly shocked that they don't advocate religious tolerance and embrace peace.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I should probably call them liars for being openly critical of the actions of Muslim extremists, doing so well before the grand re-opening upon the war on terror in September 2001.
> 
> When we start labeling all peoples for their religious affiliations and nationalities, instead of who they are.......just as the Muslim extremists do so about Christians and Americans.......the enemy has already won.


Let's get something straight, as you seem to enjoy calling people who have a better understanding of Islam bigots.

There are Muslims living right here in the good ol' South. From time to time, I see them in the stores or restaurants. For these people as with all people, I have a smile and a nod when I make eye contact with them. I wish them no harm and hope they live a peaceful day as they allow others to do the same. It is my natural tendency to do this and to feel this way. That doesn't mean I am ignorant or weak, however; nor does it mean I do not understand their system of belief. It means I tend to take _people_ as individuals.

People is the key word in that last sentence. However the individual behaves in public or sways your opinion with words or deeds does not change the system of belief they follow. Furthermore, this does not change how non-Muslims are treated in "peaceful" Muslim nations by "peaceful" Muslim people.

The peaceful Muslims of Europe seem to think this:



> The majority of Muslims in Europe believe Islamic Sharia law should take precedence over the secular constitutions and laws of their European host countries, according to a new study, which warns that Islamic fundamentalism is widespread and rising sharply in Western Europe.


Study: Clear Majority of European Muslims Pro-Sharia Fundamentalists

Sharia over the indigenous countries' legal systems. Feel free to learn about Sharia law. Pay particular attention to how the dhimmis are calculated into it, as well as women. Then tell me how lovely a "religion" Islam is.



> In May of this year, 29-year-old Coptic Christian Kirollos Atallah did what many of us do every day, he "liked" a page on Facebook. But for Kirollos, this "like" turned into death threats and a six-year long prison sentence!
> 
> Why? Because Kirollos is a Christian who "liked" a page for Christian converts from Islam. When a few radical Muslims heard this, they accused Kirollos of "blasphemy," or insulting Islam. Outraged, these Muslims attacked Kirollos's village, setting Christian-owned businesses on fire.
> 
> When the police arrived, they arrested the attackers, but they also arrested Kirollos! Though the attackers were set free the next day, Kirollos was sentenced to six-years in prison for "defaming" Islam and "inciting sectarian violence." All this because he had the audacity to like a Facebook page for Christian converts.


IDOP 2014 Petition

Institution bigotry in Islam, but you prefer to attack those of us who realize that by calling us bigots? Egypt is not IS and even moved to get the Muslim Brotherhood out of power, yet the Christians have been persecuted in Egypt before the Muslim majority ushered them into power.

Were you to take the time, you would find many examples of Christians being persecuted in Muslim nations - all of which is in accordance with Islam and the laws of dhimmitude.

Another relevant point to make about the numerous and continuous incidents of true bigotry and violence committed in "peaceful" Muslim nations and areas is the fact that there is no strong condemnation of such acts by those who are a part of the same system as the perpetrators.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Smitty901 said:


> Part of their game they will stab you in the back in a heart beat. No moderate Muslims not one. You can not be a Muslim and be Moderate. If they claim to be they are either liars or confused.


I've had more "Christians" stab me in the back, figuratively speaking of course. What does it make them?


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> I've had more "Christians" stab me in the back, figuratively speaking of course. What does it make them?


Back-sliders. That is to say, they are not abiding by the teachings of Jesus.


----------



## oddapple

Sockpuppet said:


> I've had more "Christians" stab me in the back, figuratively speaking of course. What does it make them?


You continuously repeat the sa me drone even tho it is irrelevant and just bottom line intended to "stupify, distract and make a stupid fish" of. Fish in a bucket for osama. Ahahaha! I don't know if you are like on a mission, obsessed or what, but you are circling continuously even after....nevermind. I guess you have to keep doing the same thing because all you got. ahahaha! 
"A good big one will always beat a rotten little one" - for the boobus americanus I hope that remains true. During this attack and invasion, that is really just "lovely goats coming to dinner" if we listen to plants, fools and sick people.

But, I believe or rather, have faith, that everyone is and will do what they are supposed to. The thing we are all watching is the same thing I have said since jr. High school "the human spirit will out" - it is going to be worse than people can get their head around. But....when they do....we will see. Spirit be with all that love it and in that "already won". 
We will see -


----------



## Sockpuppet

Denton said:


> Let's get something straight, as you seem to enjoy calling people who have a better understanding of Islam bigots. .......(snip)


A bigot is someone who takes an entire group of people with some common link, and then proceeds to otherwise denigrate them by any and all means. Certainly some can stereotype all blacks as being lazy, stupid, thieves, thugs, rapists, drug dealers, etc.; based upon the demographics and metrics of criminal activity that is compiled by the DOJ.

The left classifies all gun owners as irresponsible or criminal, because of the acts of a few dips***s. According to one family member, I'm either a lawless ******* owing back taxes and child support who recklessly hunts deer out the window my pickup truck with a can of beer or a mason jar of moonshine in my hand; or belong to a right fringe citizens militia who is on the verge to attempt to overthrow the government, otherwise known as the NRA. If one doesn't belong to the military or law enforcement, one doesn't require a firearm.

Again, correlation doesn't equal causation. Correlating extremist actions by some Muslims, does not make all Muslims extremists.

To single the Egyptian government out for their atrocities against Christians is disingenuous. Egypt has been committing atrocities against all people, regardless of their religious affiliation. The United States has been complicit with not only the Egyptians in this matter, but with at least 53 other governments in Extraordinary Rendition.

There are bad people in the world. Nobody denies that. But to classify 22% of the world's population, or 1.6 billion people as evil, simply for a religious affiliation.......doesn't pass the smell test.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Denton said:


> Back-sliders. That is to say, they are not abiding by the teachings of Jesus.


Then would it not be fair to state that those radical Muslims committing atrocities, are not only not abiding by the teachings of Muhammad, but by the commandments of a loving and merciful God?


----------



## Sockpuppet

oddapple said:


> You continuously repeat the sa me drone even tho it is irrelevant and just bottom line intended to "stupify, distract and make a stupid fish" of. Fish in a bucket for osama. Ahahaha! I don't know if you are like on a mission, obsessed or what, but you are circling continuously even after....nevermind. I guess you have to keep doing the same thing because all you got. ahahaha!
> "A good big one will always beat a rotten little one" - for the boobus americanus I hope that remains true. During this attack and invasion, that is really just "lovely goats coming to dinner" if we listen to plants, fools and sick people.
> 
> But, I believe or rather, have faith, that everyone is and will do what they are supposed to. The thing we are all watching is the same thing I have said since jr. High school "the human spirit will out" - it is going to be worse than people can get their head around. But....when they do....we will see. Spirit be with all that love it and in that "already won".
> We will see -


I really have to stop attempting to decipher your posts.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> A bigot is someone who takes an entire group of people with some common link, and then proceeds to otherwise denigrate them by any and all means. Certainly some can stereotype all blacks as being lazy, stupid, thieves, thugs, rapists, drug dealers, etc.; based upon the demographics and metrics of criminal activity that is compiled by the DOJ.
> 
> The left classifies all gun owners as irresponsible or criminal, because of the acts of a few dips***s. According to one family member, I'm either a lawless ******* owing back taxes and child support who recklessly hunts deer out the window my pickup truck with a can of beer or a mason jar of moonshine in my hand; or belong to a right fringe citizens militia who is on the verge to attempt to overthrow the government, otherwise known as the NRA. If one doesn't belong to the military or law enforcement, one doesn't require a firearm.
> 
> Again, correlation doesn't equal causation. Correlating extremist actions by some Muslims, does not make all Muslims extremists.
> 
> To single the Egyptian government out for their atrocities against Christians is disingenuous. Egypt has been committing atrocities against all people, regardless of their religious affiliation. The United States has been complicit with not only the Egyptians in this matter, but with at least 53 other governments in Extraordinary Rendition.
> 
> There are bad people in the world. Nobody denies that. But to classify 22% of the world's population, or 1.6 billion people as evil, simply for a religious affiliation.......doesn't pass the smell test.


Again, and pay attention this time; I judge the system as what it is. Got that, this time? Being black is not a system. Owning a weapon or being a poor white man in the south is not a system. Got it, so far? Islam, on the other hand, is a system with religious mandates. Attempting to compare all these does not pass the smell test, as you say.

What does pass the smell test is all that I have stated.

You have taken a few, isolated examples of those who are not abiding by the teachings of Jesus and compared them to the numerous, recent examples of Muslims abiding by the teachings of Muhammad and attempted to suggest there is no difference between the two, all the while attempting to suggest the likes of me are bigoted. I would suggest that, by ignoring the differences in the teachings and attempting to compare the incidents of Koresh and Jones with the persecution, and slaughter of non-Muslims as an institution of the Muslim system as being worse than bigoted.

Remember, nowhere in Jesus' teachings will you find the tactics of taqiyya. Remember this the next time your dinner buddies tell you how horrible those "extremists" are. I'll remember the recent story of an Iraqi family who were attacked by their "peaceful, tolerant" Muslim neighbors.

I'll also remember how the House of Saud, the keeper of Mecca and Medina, does not allow churches in Saudi Arabia, as they spend millions erecting mega mosques in the U.S. I'll also remember that those are viewed as Islamic advancements into dar al harb (house of war) and, in Islam, are centers for military command and control as well as places to worship the Arab moon god. This is why the Shi'ites and Sunnis attack each other's mosques when fighting. When a mosque is hit by American forces or by Israel, they scream religious persecution. This proves they have a better understanding of Western PC stupidity than we do their tactics, teachings and practice.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> Then would it not be fair to state that those radical Muslims committing atrocities, are not only not abiding by the teachings of Muhammad, but by the commandments of a loving and merciful God?


No, it would not.

The Arab moon god is not a loving and merciful god. You are attempting to assert that all religions worship the same deity. That is a false assertion.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Denton said:


> .......I judge the system as what it is.........


So you would agree that actions speak louder than words, and that those action are what the system would be judged upon?

Because there is a laundry list of actions and inactions by Christian churches, that violated the teachings of Jesus.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> So you would agree that actions speak louder than words, and that those action are what the system would be judged upon?
> 
> Because there is a laundry list of actions and inactions by Christian churches, that violated the teachings of Jesus.


You seem to be extremely bigoted against the Christian faith and extremely tolerant of the Muslim system, don't you think?

You have been asked to indicate how the few examples of bad Christianity is backed by the teachings of Jesus while I would do the same with Islam. Rather, you prefer to make general statements against Christianity while fervently defending Islam.

Yup. Not only are you a good example of bigotry, but you are ignoring the dangers to the West by the system you defend.

Think about it for one logical minute. Your defense of persecution and slaughter by those who are abiding by the teachings of Muhammad is to point out the back sliding of Christians.


----------



## dannydefense

thepeartree said:


> tw, how do you feel about all the books left out of the new testament? They didn't make the cut (not pc of their day) when the bible was rewritten in about 410 ad. That includes the one about Jesus' wife Mary escaping to Egypt with their daughter.


Dan Brown is an author, not a historian.

Just putting that out there.


----------



## oddapple

Sockpuppet said:


> So you would agree that actions speak louder than words, and that those action are what the system would be judged upon?
> 
> Because there is a laundry list of actions and inactions by Christian churches, that violated the teachings of Jesus.


Again, you use goofy tactics to do nothing but muddy water and justify jihad in the real and present, by irrelevant and unconnected events just to keep people talking until they are taken. You were out of any ammo but that long ago.
But....I guess I am to "confess"? Say "you are right! For the sake of the whole world I sure hope Christians get it together and finish the job this time once and for all, before they are."

Because I agree, you are right. That which should not have has taken on that which does not have such a history of pissing, whining and lying down.

That's really why - you, oby and the brotherhood got to bury that bible deep. If they read it and figure it out, all that bull crap is through. No matter what it takes. I mean not me, them. Oby fears most what he wants muslims to do. Use the abundant blessings of the knowledge of the religion of their fathers as is being used against them. How typical of that poor, wretched ilk


----------



## Sockpuppet

Denton said:


> You seem to be extremely bigoted against the Christian faith and extremely tolerant of the Muslim system, don't you think?
> 
> You have been asked to indicate how the few examples of bad Christianity is backed by the teachings of Jesus while I would do the same with Islam. Rather, you prefer to make general statements against Christianity while fervently defending Islam.
> 
> Yup. Not only are you a good example of bigotry, but you are ignoring the dangers to the West by the system you defend.
> 
> Think about it for one logical minute. Your defense of persecution and slaughter by those who are abiding by the teachings of Muhammad is to point out the back sliding of Christians.


Ad hominem, amongst other illogical statements.

I point to historical facts of atrocities by the Roman Catholic Church, among other Christian religions, to demonstrate that its not so much the institution, but the person who sins against God.....and sometimes the leadership which justifies the same in the name of God.

Yet you bash Islam and defend Christianity for the same reasons. Then you state that I am bashing Christianity at-large.

If you'll excuse me, I must be running off to do the Christian thing to collect a debt, by taking a man's wife and children. I've already let him slide on 77 payments.


----------



## Smitty901

Christian has it sins we know that. That has nothing to do with what Islam is. Having lived in Muslim countries I know the truth. And you had better watch your back.


----------



## Jeep

I don't seem to remember the other books not making the cut. What I do remember is people like Charlemange tossing out books they didn't want the peasantry reading.


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## oddapple

Jeep said:


> I don't seem to remember the other books not making the cut. What I do remember is people like Charlemange tossing out books they didn't want the peasantry reading.


It was said that there were over 200 accounts or "gospels" about christ. 200 stories of people near him. But the catholics said that would be a big book so they picked matthew, mark, Luke and John and put their paul in too even tho he never walked with jesus.
There is a little spin that can be put either way really. Many books are basically duplicates and while I do not know the whole of how what was chosen, I do know that.
There are also some "gospels" out there that don't match language, customs and such of the time they are supposed to be written, the "fools gospels" because any regular historian would have seen the oddities.
The masoretic text is where most of the law, the prophets and the writings come from and millenia later the brit chadesha of y'shua (the holy deal/new covenant of salvation). I like to think that no matter how they tried  G-d made sure the important stuff stayed.

Yes, lots of stuff uncomfortable to the king got ditched by kings, but....people don't need G-d for those things? He already wrote it in them? That is why every effort all day is made to ruin them. Competition.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Smitty901 said:


> Christian has it sins we know that. That has nothing to do with what Islam is. Having lived in Muslim countries I know the truth. And you had better watch your back.


Q: How many Muslim attacks, injuries, and murders have occurred within the United States since April 1972? 
A: 3,107 killed and 1,687 injured in 75 attacks, in 42 years.

According to DOJ, there has been an overall homicide rate of 7.4/100,000 within the U.S. during that time. That is 740,000 dead.

I'm more concerned about my government giving a free pass to a criminal to harm me or my family, and at the same time, prosecute me for protecting myself. That is really the truth here in America. If I'm going to watch my back, its going to be those most likely to do it.


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## oddapple

But...they are only criminalized so their guns can get taken so they can be over run by muslims? 
I mean, what a big crock? I don't do the insipid thing. You should look up insipid - that's the muslim word for you. They have been promised our country if only we weren't in the way. The deal is, people are going to be fighting over all they were promised after we're gone because of course they are all cheating each other even if in it together. Those of us who live longer will live to see them going at each other.


----------



## oddapple

I'm more concerned about my government giving a free pass to a criminal to harm me or my family, and at the same time, prosecute me for protecting myself. "

Then oppose immigration and the establishment of sharia law on us soil? (Haha yeah right)


----------



## Maine-Marine

I am not opposed to immigration... but lets limit it to those that are friendly to us and have something worth adding to out society.

the BOOKS that did not make it into the bible basically eliminated themselves...if you have 22 books that say X and 4 that say y and were written 115 year later... it figures right

judging a religion by those that follow it is wrong... the true test of a religion is its founder.... I would rather hang out with Jesus then Mohammad


----------



## oddapple

<I am not opposed to immigration... but lets limit it to those that are friendly to us and have something worth adding to out society.>>

Hard to disagree, need better standards and untying enforcement. Germany was so cool "We do not need a million stupid people" that was great!

Engineers however may expect a welcome mat ~


----------



## Notsoyoung

Sockpuppet said:


> Q: How many Muslim attacks, injuries, and murders have occurred within the United States since April 1972?
> A: 3,107 killed and 1,687 injured in 75 attacks, in 42 years.
> 
> According to DOJ, there has been an overall homicide rate of 7.4/100,000 within the U.S. during that time. That is 740,000 dead.
> 
> I'm more concerned about my government giving a free pass to a criminal to harm me or my family, and at the same time, prosecute me for protecting myself. That is really the truth here in America. If I'm going to watch my back, its going to be those most likely to do it.


So we go from comparing what Christians did 500 years ago to what Muslims are doing today, then jumping to comparing how many people are murdered by criminals and insane people to how many people are killed by muslims during the same period? Yeah, that's a good argument, if you are bending any way that you can to defend the defenseless.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Maine-Marine said:


> judging a religion by those that follow it is wrong... the true test of a religion is its founder.... I would rather hang out with Jesus then Mohammad


How many Christians actually got to hang out with Jesus? I certainly didn't. But lets get to the premise of your argument: A religion's founder, and how that is the best way to judge a religion.

Judaism with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were stand up guys. So much so, that God made some memorable promises to the Jewish people. Judaism then became corrupted by the leadership of the Jewish faith. Of course, then Jesus and his disciples left that church, and Jesus founded the Catholic (universal) church.

That led to Peter creating the Roman Catholic Church, become its temporal leader and then not much later, it became corrupted too.

During the Inquisitions during 1100 to 1808, in which the Catholic Church routinely arrested and tortured Jews, Muslims, and any number of other religions and religious sects and commanded to convert to Christianity or be executed. All who refused were tortured until they converted or dead, with no exceptions for the women, children, elderly, or crippled.

Then there are Medieval Witch Hunts which left upwards of 100,000 dead during 1480 to 1750.

Personally, no matter how altruistic a religion founding is, I'd rather hang out with those that are most in line with my perceived idea of what God would want. That doesn't include a faith that steps on people, in the name of Jesus.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Notsoyoung said:


> So we go from comparing what Christians did 500 years ago to what Muslims are doing today, then jumping to comparing how many people are murdered by criminals and insane people to how many people are killed by muslims during the same period? Yeah, that's a good argument, if you are bending any way that you can to defend the defenseless.


No, that was not the point. It was a response to the quoted post about "watching one's back".


----------



## thepeartree

dannydefense said:


> Dan Brown is an author, not a historian.
> 
> Just putting that out there.


Who mentioned Dan Brown? Yes, he has written some extremely popular books of fiction, but what I am referencing is historical FACT. Heaven help you if you can't tell the difference.

And I suspect that you misunderstand where I'm coming from. I don't like _any_ organized religion. I don't consider that there are many true believers in any one of them. I haven't read the Q'ran, so I reserve judgment. One thing I know is that people will use whatever they need in order to justify their behavior. Of course they'll use whatever is convenient, whether it's the Q'ran, or the bible, or the Torah. There is no organized religion that has no record of persecting people who are not part of their faith.


----------



## oddapple

thepeartree said:


> Who mentioned Dan Brown? Yes, he has written some extremely popular books of fiction, but what I am referencing is historical FACT. Heaven help you if you can't tell the difference.


Whoa! You believe the myths around kernels of things of which you have no knowledge and thereby judge them?
M-u-s-l-i-m


----------



## dannydefense

thepeartree said:


> Who mentioned Dan Brown? Yes, he has written some extremely popular books of fiction, but what I am referencing is historical FACT. Heaven help you if you can't tell the difference.


Please cite sources for said facts?


----------



## Maine-Marine

Sockpuppet said:


> How many Christians actually got to hang out with Jesus? I certainly didn't. But lets get to the premise of your argument: A religion's founder, and how that is the best way to judge a religion.
> 
> Judaism with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were stand up guys. So much so, that God made some memorable promises to the Jewish people. Judaism then became corrupted by the leadership of the Jewish faith. Of course, then Jesus and his disciples left that church, and Jesus founded the Catholic (universal) church.
> 
> That led to Peter creating the Roman Catholic Church, become its temporal leader and then not much later, it became corrupted too.
> 
> During the Inquisitions during 1100 to 1808, in which the Catholic Church routinely arrested and tortured Jews, Muslims, and any number of other religions and religious sects and commanded to convert to Christianity or be executed. All who refused were tortured until they converted or dead, with no exceptions for the women, children, elderly, or crippled.
> 
> Then there are Medieval Witch Hunts which left upwards of 100,000 dead during 1480 to 1750.
> 
> Personally, no matter how altruistic a religion founding is, I'd rather hang out with those that are most in line with my perceived idea of what God would want. That doesn't include a faith that steps on people, in the name of Jesus.


I think your statements are truthful but not complete...

God did not make promises because they were stand up or good guys...

I would argue that Peter did not start the Roman Catholic Church...

I would have to ask - if you know something is corrupt you first must know the truth or the uncorrupted way...DO YOU

Again judging a faith by those that abuse it is rather silly...and I never accept those judgments from people... Killing somebody in the name of Jesus is wrong and no where is it taught that WE are to do that...islam however..a central point for them is to kill non-believers...

Who YOU want to hang out with has no bearing on what the TRUTH is...
The fact that some folks abuse the name of Jesus to do evil does not change the the truth of Jesus
The fact that some followers of mohammed do not want to kill unbelievers does not change the teachings of the Koran
The fact that some churches accept gays and homosexuals as being saved does not change the truth of their perversion

You have the same error that many folks have...they want to have their perceived ideas of God over rule what has been written and understood for 1,000's of years...Not sure where you are getting your truth from accept you make it up as you go along... 
as with many people they want to move Jesus and the Bible to where they are at..instead of changing their lives to match the Bible and what Jesus wants....


----------



## Sockpuppet

Maine-Marine said:


> I think your statements are truthful but not complete...
> 
> God did not make promises because they were stand up or good guys...
> 
> I would argue that Peter did not start the Roman Catholic Church...
> 
> I would have to ask - if you know something is corrupt you first must know the truth or the uncorrupted way...DO YOU
> 
> Again judging a faith by those that abuse it is rather silly...and I never accept those judgments from people... Killing somebody in the name of Jesus is wrong and no where is it taught that WE are to do that...islam however..a central point for them is to kill non-believers...
> 
> Who YOU want to hang out with has no bearing on what the TRUTH is...
> The fact that some folks abuse the name of Jesus to do evil does not change the the truth of Jesus
> The fact that some followers of mohammed do not want to kill unbelievers does not change the teachings of the Koran
> The fact that some churches accept gays and homosexuals as being saved does not change the truth of their perversion
> 
> You have the same error that many folks have...they want to have their perceived ideas of God over rule what has been written and understood for 1,000's of years...Not sure where you are getting your truth from accept you make it up as you go along...
> as with many people they want to move Jesus and the Bible to where they are at..instead of changing their lives to match the Bible and what Jesus wants....


I believe that many Christians believe that the central point of Islam, is to kill non believers. Its within the Qur'an, so many believe it true.

Though if one believes such of Islam, why don't true Christians believe everything and act upon everything as dictated within the Scriptures? Or could it be that the Christian people have progressed beyond the stoning of a homosexual, or selling a debtor into slavery to repay a debt, and any other number of things contained within those pages? Just because Christians don't follow such, doesn't change the fact that its still within the Bible.

As such, I have to look to various teaching and a relevant history, to make my own determinations if that is what God wanted or meant. I know that not every Roman Catholic Cardinal, Bishop, and Pope was correct in their interpretation of what Jesus wanted. Martin Luther believed such, and placed to the church 95 theses, with 95 subsequent deviations to what church teachings advocated at the time.

So in contrast to accepted and popular modern Christian beliefs, would you like to know what I've found?

1. Just because God forgives, doesn't means he forgets. Neither should we. Uncle Pookie the child molester we may forgive, but lets not forget that he's still a child molester, so lets not leave our kids alone with him to watch.
2. We don't necessarily need to punish every sin. There are some things best left between them and God.
3. Everything doesn't have to happen for a reason. Sometimes chance just happens.
4. No matter how well one raises their children within a Godly home, its no guarantee that they won't become schmucks.
5. Faith and prayer cannot fix everything. Bad stuff still happens.
6. The dead don't necessarily end up in a better place. There is a Hell.
7. Good luck doesn't come with prayer and devotion. People are supposed to help themselves too.
8. Christians should judge. A lack of social stigma is why society is in the pickle it is.
9. God doesn't have an absolute blueprint for everyone's life. Thus is the reason we have free will.
10. That one's conscience isn't infallible. Too often ignorance taints it.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I'm not about to let a corrupted church dogma, based upon an unquestioned belief system for centuries, send me to suffer for what others say I should believe.


----------



## Arklatex

5500+ people have been murdered by isis alone in the name of islam since 6/2014

The number of people murdered in the name of Christianity must be negligible. 

The kkk murdered 3446 blacks between 1882 and 1968. 


It says in the koran that those who convert from muslim to any other faith should be killed. And the main goal of their faith is to convert the world to their religion and kill or subjugate those who do not.


Their book is chock full of things like this:

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"*
koran 8:12

These are a few of many examples.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Arklatex said:


> 5500+ people have been murdered by isis alone in the name of islam since 6/2014
> 
> The number of people murdered in the name of Christianity must be negligible.
> 
> The kkk murdered 3446 blacks between 1882 and 1968.
> 
> It says in the koran that those who convert from muslim to any other faith should be killed. And the main goal of their faith is to convert the world to their religion and kill or subjugate those who do not.
> 
> Their book is chock full of things like this:
> 
> "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"*
> koran 8:12
> 
> These are a few of many examples.


I'm not stating Islam is perfect, far from it. And the Klan killed a Hell of a lot more than Blacks too. They also murdered whites, Catholics, Jews, liberals (okay, that's not so bad), Communists, informers, LE, etc.

Though I'm convinced that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have done enough of their share of killing and other sins in and outside the name of God, to be as equally culpable in the eyes of God.


----------



## oddapple

! 
"What devil or witch was ever as great a killer as the blood that flows in these veins?"
- count dracula

And "heaven help you if you don't believe that!"

Ahahaha! Sorry having fun....


----------



## Maine-Marine

Sockpuppet said:


> I believe that many Christians believe that the central point of Islam, is to kill non believers. Its within the Qur'an, so many believe it true.


You are right - it is within the koran!



Sockpuppet said:


> why don't true Christians believe everything and act upon everything as dictated within the Scriptures? Or could it be that the Christian people have progressed beyond the stoning of a homosexual, or selling a debtor into slavery to repay a debt, and any other number of things contained within those pages? Just because Christians don't follow such, doesn't change the fact that its still within the Bible.


Because, as I am sure you know...we (non jews) were never under the old covenant... Now you could ask why the non-christian jews do not follow the old testament - and that would be a valid questions



Sockpuppet said:


> As such, I have to look to various teaching and a relevant history, to make my own determinations if that is what God wanted or meant. I know that not every Roman Catholic Cardinal, Bishop, and Pope was correct in their interpretation of what Jesus wanted. Martin Luther believed such, and placed to the church 95 theses, with 95 subsequent deviations to what church teachings advocated at the time.


I can use the bible as a rod to measure correctness...what do you use??


----------



## Kauboy

Sockpuppet said:


> I've had more "Christians" stab me in the back, figuratively speaking of course. What does it make them?


You just need to give it up man. The feelings our brethren are expressing run deep and are unlikely to change. Instead of raising your blood pressure over it, just let them be.


----------



## Notsoyoung

Sockpuppet said:


> I believe that many Christians believe that the central point of Islam, is to kill non believers. Its within the Qur'an, so many believe it true.
> 
> Though if one believes such of Islam, why don't true Christians believe everything and act upon everything as dictated within the Scriptures? Or could it be that the Christian people have progressed beyond the stoning of a homosexual, or selling a debtor into slavery to repay a debt, and any other number of things contained within those pages? Just because Christians don't follow such, doesn't change the fact that its still within the Bible.
> 
> As such, I have to look to various teaching and a relevant history, to make my own determinations if that is what God wanted or meant. I know that not every Roman Catholic Cardinal, Bishop, and Pope was correct in their interpretation of what Jesus wanted. Martin Luther believed such, and placed to the church 95 theses, with 95 subsequent deviations to what church teachings advocated at the time.
> 
> So in contrast to accepted and popular modern Christian beliefs, would you like to know what I've found?
> 
> 1. Just because God forgives, doesn't means he forgets. Neither should we. Uncle Pookie the child molester we may forgive, but lets not forget that he's still a child molester, so lets not leave our kids alone with him to watch.
> 2. We don't necessarily need to punish every sin. There are some things best left between them and God.
> 3. Everything doesn't have to happen for a reason. Sometimes chance just happens.
> 4. No matter how well one raises their children within a Godly home, its no guarantee that they won't become schmucks.
> 5. Faith and prayer cannot fix everything. Bad stuff still happens.
> 6. The dead don't necessarily end up in a better place. There is a Hell.
> 7. Good luck doesn't come with prayer and devotion. People are supposed to help themselves too.
> 8. Christians should judge. A lack of social stigma is why society is in the pickle it is.
> 9. God doesn't have an absolute blueprint for everyone's life. Thus is the reason we have free will.
> 10. That one's conscience isn't infallible. Too often ignorance taints it.
> 
> If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I'm not about to let a corrupted church dogma, based upon an unquestioned belief system for centuries, send me to suffer for what others say I should believe.


The fact is that Muslims are killing non-believers NOW. They are promising that they are going to come here and kill us NOW. They are beheading children NOW. They are raping and killing women NOW. They are doing these things NOW and to argue that hundreds of years ago Christians did the same things is not only bull, but immaterial.

There will be geniuses sitting at their computers defending muslims while one climbs through their window and cuts their throat.


----------



## Arklatex

They have declared war against the Infidel. If the caliphate gains enough power they won't be satisfied with the middle/near east. It will be Africa or Europe next. Not many moderate muslims are speaking against the caliphate. The ones who do are persecuted or they go missing.


----------



## Smitty901

Sockpuppet said:


> I'm not stating Islam is perfect, far from it. And the Klan killed a Hell of a lot more than Blacks too. They also murdered whites, Catholics, Jews, liberals (okay, that's not so bad), Communists, informers, LE, etc.
> 
> Though I'm convinced that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have done enough of their share of killing and other sins in and outside the name of God, to be as equally culpable in the eyes of God.


 There only goal is to wipe everyone out. They have never wavered from that. So called Muslims never really stand up against the extremist. Because they are their supporters. It is considered honorable to fool us by pretending to be a moderate. There are no moderate Muslims to think there is just means you have fallen for the liberal BS. Look around you open your eyes. Step out side the liberal education systems. better yet go live in the middle east awhile.


----------



## Notsoyoung

Radical muslims want to kill all of the Infidels....... Moderate muslims want the radical muslims to kill all of the Infidels.


----------



## alterego

ISIS is doing a good of killing the same ****s that we have been at war with for many years. Let them clear the channels over their. If we can isolate them let it go. How many persons have said. Bomb them into the stone age. This is nothing more than another un civil war. It will cost us less to let them kill each other.


----------



## Sockpuppet

alterego said:


> ISIS is doing a good of killing the same ****s that we have been at war with for many years. Let them clear the channels over their. If we can isolate them let it go. How many persons have said. Bomb them into the stone age. This is nothing more than another un civil war. It will cost us less to let them kill each other.


I have no problem with bombing ISIS ourselves, nor allowing their enemies to do the job themselves. Except that they're cowardly residing amongst civilian populations to protect themselves from that very thing.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Notsoyoung said:


> The fact is that Muslims are killing non-believers NOW. They are promising that they are going to come here and kill us NOW. They are beheading children NOW. They are raping and killing women NOW. They are doing these things NOW and to argue that hundreds of years ago Christians did the same things is not only bull, but immaterial.
> 
> There will be geniuses sitting at their computers defending muslims while one climbs through their window and cuts their throat.


The argument is that *all* Muslims are doing it, or at least passively advocating it. I take exception to that generalization, and as a counter argument, point to Christian atrocities in the past as well as biblical passages.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Kauboy said:


> You just need to give it up man. The feelings our brethren are expressing run deep and are unlikely to change. Instead of raising your blood pressure over it, just let them be.


My blood pressure isn't being raised. Though you're probably right that its an attempt in futility. Prejudices and ignorance notwithstanding, I was attempting that some level of objectivity would gain a foothold.

It would be comical if not so tragic, but these self-proclaimed Christians that I strongly suspect to be Baptists: The very founder of the Baptist religion, Roger Williams, who not only advocated for religious tolerance and freedom, but placed such as a very tenent of the institution. These views not only result in his banishment from the Massachusetts colony and the creation of the Providence colony which became a safe haven for the "dangerous" dissenters that included Baptists, Quakers, Jews, etc.; but subsequently an inspiration to the Framers when laying out the Constitution.

It just a matter of time before there will be an attack upon the Mormons and even Freemasons.

Its amazing how far we've come, to only let fear, ignorance, and prejudice drag us back 400 years.


----------



## Kauboy

Sockpuppet said:


> My blood pressure isn't being raised. Though you're probably right that its an attempt in futility. Prejudices and ignorance notwithstanding, I was attempting that some level of objectivity would gain a foothold.
> 
> It would be comical if not so tragic, but these self-proclaimed Christians that I strongly suspect to be Baptists: The very founder of the Baptist religion, Roger Williams, who not only advocated for religious tolerance and freedom, but placed such as a very tenent of the institution. These views not only result in his banishment from the Massachusetts colony and the creation of the Providence colony which became a safe haven for the "dangerous" dissenters that included Baptists, Quakers, Jews, etc.; but subsequently an inspiration to the Framers when laying out the Constitution.
> 
> It just a matter of time before there will be an attack upon the Mormons and even Freemasons.
> 
> Its amazing how far we've come, to only let fear, ignorance, and prejudice drag us back 400 years.


Indeed...


----------



## oddapple

It came first to us. There are many people whose family was around the last time and they have somewhat more adamant stance I think? 

Anyway, it makes me think of this guy that was here raving on the other night and it finally hit me I said "did you know whether or not Jesus had a wife don't have anything to do with whether gay people get in heaven? Jesus told guys that only gay people can understand they have a way with G-d and others can't? But muslims don't have that. They have beheading. Oh! Not sugar sweet homey baby cousin ones - just the ones that matter!


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## Sockpuppet

This is how I picture oddapple when he posts......

View attachment 7278


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## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> Ad hominem, amongst other illogical statements.
> 
> I point to historical facts of atrocities by the Roman Catholic Church, among other Christian religions, to demonstrate that its not so much the institution, but the person who sins against God.....and sometimes the leadership which justifies the same in the name of God.
> 
> Yet you bash Islam and defend Christianity for the same reasons. Then you state that I am bashing Christianity at-large.
> 
> If you'll excuse me, I must be running off to do the Christian thing to collect a debt, by taking a man's wife and children. I've already let him slide on 77 payments.


You have not answered one single question straightforward, yet declare ad hominem.

Now, you bring in the sins of the Catholic church, as if you have been doing this all along. You are like a an eel, writhing on hook, doing its best to release itself.

Again, give me examples of Christian atrocities that are based on the teachings of Jesus. I will, in turn give you the same for Islam, but they will be in accordance with the teachings of Muhammad.

You cannot do it, but you know I can.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> No, that was not the point. It was a response to the quoted post about "watching one's back".


Funny you would attempt to hold someone to a point, don't you think?

Pakistan Court Upholds Death Sentence Against Christian Woman Who Allegedly Drank Water From a Well Reserved for Muslims | sharia unveiled

This woman forgot her place as a dhimmi. Driven by thirst, she had the audacity to drink from a well reserved only for Muslims. She will be executed for her transgression. This, in a peaceful Muslim nation; one Bush declared to be an ally in the war on tactic...er...terror.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> I'm not stating Islam is perfect, far from it. And the Klan killed a Hell of a lot more than Blacks too. They also murdered whites, Catholics, Jews, liberals (okay, that's not so bad), Communists, informers, LE, etc.
> 
> Though I'm convinced that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have done enough of their share of killing and other sins in and outside the name of God, to be as equally culpable in the eyes of God.


Now, you drag Judaism into the mix. Tell me all about how the Jews have conducted themselves as Muslims.

You keep bringing up the KKK as if it is some Christian denomination, but let's look at it once again, shall we?

You bring up the murders committed by the Klan in the last year and I will bring up murders committed by Muslims. Heck, let's not even bother with whether or not they are condoned by any god, just run with with from a secular point of view.

Now, let's look at one particular sentence a little closer...



> Though I'm convinced that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have done enough of their share of killing and other sins in and outside the name of God, to be as equally culpable in the eyes of God.


You refer to the religions, rather than the followers of the religions. But, let's do that. Judaism does not call for territorial acquisition, nor does it call for the spreading of Judaism. As a matter of fact, there is a very lengthy and difficult process to becoming a Jew.

With Christianity, one is to share the "Good News" with the lost. After sharing the Good News, it is up to the lost to decide if he repent, ask forgiveness from God and accept Jesus as his savior. Again, there is no call for territorial acquisition and there is no demand that anyone who does not convert to Christianity be put to death or be forced to take a position of lower class citizenship.

On the other hand, Islam demands that the entire world be conquered in the name of Allah, in accordance with the teachings of Muhammad. The "house of war" dar al harb, must be conquered and brought into the "house of Islam," dar al Islam. People who are not Muslims are to be given three choices; convert, accept the position of dhummitude, or die.


----------



## Denton

I also notice that the Spanish Inquisition has been brought up time and again. Even though Islamists kill more people each year than was murdered in the entire 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition, I will once again ask where in the teachings of Jesus was this condoned or demanded.

The Spanish Inquisitions were not conducted by any teaching of Jesus. Obviously, as the primary target of the inquisitions were Jews, the inquisitions were not in accordance with Mosaic laws.

Even though one continues to connect the KKK with Christianity, and even though one could certainly argue that more people have been killed by Islamists in the last ten years or less that Klansmen have killed in the last 50 years, there is no teaching of Jesus that condones the behavior of the KKK, though Muhammad's teachings and conduct are what propels the Islamists to behave as they do.

As stated and proved time and again, there is no comparison; not even the feeblest, that can stand to scrutiny.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> My blood pressure isn't being raised. Though you're probably right that its an attempt in futility. Prejudices and ignorance notwithstanding, I was attempting that some level of objectivity would gain a foothold.
> 
> It would be comical if not so tragic, but these self-proclaimed Christians that I strongly suspect to be Baptists: The very founder of the Baptist religion, Roger Williams, who not only advocated for religious tolerance and freedom, but placed such as a very tenent of the institution. These views not only result in his banishment from the Massachusetts colony and the creation of the Providence colony which became a safe haven for the "dangerous" dissenters that included Baptists, Quakers, Jews, etc.; but subsequently an inspiration to the Framers when laying out the Constitution.
> 
> It just a matter of time before there will be an attack upon the Mormons and even Freemasons.
> 
> Its amazing how far we've come, to only let fear, ignorance, and prejudice drag us back 400 years.


Prejudiced and ignorance? You ignore everything to continue the mantra of all things and beliefs are equal. To further muddy the water, you now try and suggest that we who understand the tenets of the Islamic system will not rabidly attack Mormons and Freemasons. This is obviously intellectual dishonesty. Still, let's run with it, shall we?

How many people in the last year have been murdered by Mormons and in accordance with the teachings of Mormonism? Same thing with Freemasonry. I admit, I am not versed in either, but I do not recall any murders, nor do I recall anyone being forced to either join their group or accept a position of inferior status.


----------



## Sockpuppet

If you believe Islam is based upon everything that is written within the Qur'an, then you will also have to accept Christianity for the everything that is written within the the Scriptures.

I don't take what happened last week, or even the last 100 years to condemn or accept an entire religion. Instead I look at its entire history....the good and the bad. If you're going to condemn Islam for the actions of ISIS, then step up and condemn the Christianity for the actions of the RC Church and KKK.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Sockpuppet said:


> The argument is that *all* Muslims are doing it, or at least passively advocating it. I take exception to that generalization, and as a counter argument, point to Christian atrocities in the past as well as biblical passages.


please show me where in the bible Jesus advocates killing non-christians... 
I sure can show you in the koran where it says to kill non-muslims

the issue here is that when a "christian" kills somebody for Jesus they being disobedient
When a muslims kills somebody they are being obedient


----------



## Notsoyoung

Sockpuppet said:


> If you believe Islam is based upon everything that is written within the Qur'an, then you will also have to accept Christianity for the everything that is written within the the Scriptures.
> 
> I don't take what happened last week, or even the last 100 years to condemn or accept an entire religion. Instead I look at its entire history....the good and the bad. If you're going to condemn Islam for the actions of ISIS, then step up and condemn the Christianity for the actions of the RC Church and KKK.


Right NOW there are followers of Islam beheading, crucifying, and raping in the name of their religion. I can't think of another religion doing the same NOW. We are alive NOW and although it is possible that one of us will be murdered by a muslim, I don't think that any of us has to worry about the Spanish Inquisition grabbing us. Your arguments of "hundreds of year ago Christians did this so don't condemn muslims NOW" is asinine.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> If you believe Islam is based upon everything that is written within the Qur'an, then you will also have to accept Christianity for the everything that is written within the the Scriptures.
> 
> I don't take what happened last week, or even the last 100 years to condemn or accept an entire religion. Instead I look at its entire history....the good and the bad. If you're going to condemn Islam for the actions of ISIS, then step up and condemn the Christianity for the actions of the RC Church and KKK.


Again, the KKK is not a denomination, nor does it speak on behalf of Christianity or follow the teachings of Jesus. You also switch gears and offer the RC church and its conduct that was contrary to the teachings of Jesus as defense the continued conduct of those who have been following the teachings of Muhammad.

You condemn "Christianity" as if it is the same as Islam, while tossing the KKK into the fray to muddy the water.

For your information, Christians do condemn the activity of organizations such as the Westboro bunch and the KKK. By the way, when we condemn such activity, our condemnation is genuine. There is no such thing as taqiyya in the teachings of Jesus.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Sockpuppet said:


> If you believe Islam is based upon everything that is written within the Qur'an, then you will also have to accept Christianity for the everything that is written within the the Scriptures.


Yep.. of course we have to understand the difference between the covenant and the promise and the difference between those that accept Jesus and those that deny him as the messiah.

If you think we non-jewish followers of Jesus are supposed to follow the laws from the old covenant - you are a biblical illiterate.


----------



## Notsoyoung

Maine-Marine said:


> Yep.. of course we have to understand the difference between the covenant and the promise and the difference between those that accept Jesus and those that deny him as the messiah.
> 
> If you think we non-jewish followers of Jesus are supposed to follow the laws from the old covenant - you are a biblical illiterate.


Example: Most Christians I know have no religious objections to eating bacon or shrimp. Just saying.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Notsoyoung said:


> Example: Most Christians I know have no religious objections to eating bacon or shrimp. Just saying.


Of course we do not... do you know why..???


----------



## Maine-Marine

Galatians Chapter 3


1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Maine-Marine said:


> ........If you think we non-jewish followers of Jesus are supposed to follow the laws from the old covenant - you are a biblical illiterate.


So Christians aren't obligated to obey anything but Noah's 7 laws? So why is the Old Testament even included for Christians to read?


----------



## Sockpuppet

Denton said:


> Again, the KKK is not a denomination, nor does it speak on behalf of Christianity or follow the teachings of Jesus. You also switch gears and offer the RC church and its conduct that was contrary to the teachings of Jesus as defense the continued conduct of those who have been following the teachings of Muhammad.
> 
> You condemn "Christianity" as if it is the same as Islam, while tossing the KKK into the fray to muddy the water.
> 
> For your information, Christians do condemn the activity of organizations such as the Westboro bunch and the KKK. By the way, when we condemn such activity, our condemnation is genuine. There is no such thing as taqiyya in the teachings of Jesus.


No, I don't condemn Christianity, and unlike you, I have an open mind and don't arbitrarily condemn all of Islam and all its followers for the acts of a minority within it.

ISIS is not a denomination of Islam. Is ISIS an officially recognized branch of all of Islam? No. Are they recognized by some sect of the Islamic faith? Yes.

The KKK is not a denomination of Christianity. Is the KKK an officially recognized branch of all of Christianity? No. Are they recognized by some sect(s) of the Christian faith. Yes.

For your information, there are at least some Christians that don't condemn the activity of organizations such as the Westboro bunch and the KKK. And like any other organization with people leading it, not all condemnation is genuine.


----------



## Jeep

The Bible is subject to each persons interpretation. There are 100 million Morons in this country that do not even know what a denomination is, let alone be well versed like Maine. I am not. My wifes nephew was born Mormon, baptised Mormon, but he is Not Mormon by his own admission because he is Christian ! WTF ? What is the church of Jesus Christ of LDS.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Notsoyoung said:


> Right NOW there are followers of Islam beheading, crucifying, and raping in the name of their religion. I can't think of another religion doing the same NOW. We are alive NOW and although it is possible that one of us will be murdered by a muslim, I don't think that any of us has to worry about the Spanish Inquisition grabbing us. Your arguments of "hundreds of year ago Christians did this so don't condemn muslims NOW" is asinine.


So if Islam is as evil as you would claim it to be, it would be a moral thing for Christianity to annihilate that 22% of the world's population right now?


----------



## Jeep

Yep I would


----------



## NavySEAL

It sure would .......every one of them.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Sockpuppet said:


> So Christians aren't obligated to obey anything but Noah's 7 laws? So why is the Old Testament even included for Christians to read?


I did not say that Christians are to follow Noahs 7 laws (You brought that up), noah was before the risen Christ...and the old testament is included because it gives us an understanding of the results of having a hard heart towards God it also shows Gods compassion and his anger...It also helps us to make sense of things ...Jesus quotes it in Matthew 24...it gives us prophecy that shows Jesus is the Messiah, it explains end times.

There are some books out there that are just the new testament...and really...if all you want is to know what is required for salvation..it is all you need...IF HOWEVER you want to unlock history, study end times, understand creation, and see other things... it is a wonderful informational book


----------



## Maine-Marine

Sockpuppet said:


> So if Islam is as evil as you would claim it to be, it would be a moral thing for Christianity to annihilate that 22% of the world's population right now?


Show me the place where Jesus commands us to kill unbelievers.

Morals are not a Christian thing...Morals are a humanistic thing - they change every 20 years... it is not about Morals it is about holiness


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> So if Islam is as evil as you would claim it to be, it would be a moral thing for Christianity to annihilate that 22% of the world's population right now?


So, you claim to be versed in Christianity yet you ask such a question? Again, you minimize the threat while attempt to blow the "other side" out of proportion.

Yes, we are to defend ourselves. Sell a cloak and buy a sword. Sure. But, why are we Christians here in the first place? What is our "prime directive?"

Christians are not the ones in need of the Good News; we already have it. Those who are not saved are in dire need of it, and they have been receiving it.

Today, missionaries are sharing the Gospel in countries where Islam is the predominant religion. Today, those converts are facing persecution from those who have yet to accept Christ.

This is the great hope, that the adherents of a destructive and oppressive system may come to know the Lord and turn away from the road to destruction.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> No, I don't condemn Christianity, and unlike you, I have an open mind and don't arbitrarily condemn all of Islam and all its followers for the acts of a minority within it.
> 
> ISIS is not a denomination of Islam. Is ISIS an officially recognized branch of all of Islam? No. Are they recognized by some sect of the Islamic faith? Yes.
> 
> The KKK is not a denomination of Christianity. Is the KKK an officially recognized branch of all of Christianity? No. Are they recognized by some sect(s) of the Christian faith. Yes.
> 
> For your information, there are at least some Christians that don't condemn the activity of organizations such as the Westboro bunch and the KKK. And like any other organization with people leading it, not all condemnation is genuine.


No, you are, in fact, not operating with an "open mind" but are selective about what you prefer to believe. At the same time, you are doing your best to twist what is said while intentionally ignoring something as clear as show me where any of the few examples, be it from hundreds of years ago or within the last few years, where any denomination or even a non-religious group as the KKK has committed an atrocious act that was in keeping with the teachings of Jesus, and I will then show you how those sort of acts committed in the name of Islam is in keeping with the teachings of Muhammad.


----------



## Denton

Maine-Marine said:


> I did not say that Christians are to follow Noahs 7 laws (You brought that up), noah was before the risen Christ...and the old testament is included because it gives us an understanding of the results of having a hard heart towards God it also shows Gods compassion and his anger...It also helps us to make sense of things ...Jesus quotes it in Matthew 24...it gives us prophecy that shows Jesus is the Messiah, it explains end times.
> 
> There are some books out there that are just the new testament...and really...if all you want is to know what is required for salvation..it is all you need...IF HOWEVER you want to unlock history, study end times, understand creation, and see other things... it is a wonderful informational book


Understanding much of the New Testament requires an understanding of the Old Testament. References to traditions and other things go not understood or glossed over because Christians have a propensity to skim over those things. We really don't spend enough time in the Old Testament.

Still, I chuckle at Peter's response when the Jews (The first Christians were Jews who accepted Jesus for who He is) expected Gentiles to first become Jews before they could be a Christian.

Paraphrasing here, so you can see why I chuckle:

Come on, guys; don't expect or demand anymore than the ten commandments! They ain't to bright, but they are fun to watch! :lol:


----------



## Jeep

Before it gets ugly Sockpuppet, I am not advocating the extinction of all Muslims. I am advertising the wholesale destruction of those who want to kill me or make me submit. I already have blood on my hands and am more than eager to wash in more, if that is what it takes. I know there are decent muslims in the world. But I know there are several hundred thousand I would still like to meet, before I get too old.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Maine-Marine said:


> I did not say that Christians are to follow Noahs 7 laws.......


Excuse me. It was my understanding that you subscribed to that of a dual theologian that picks and chooses which parts of the Old Testament that he believes. Its abundantly clear that you have none, to include God's own word.


----------



## Sockpuppet

Jeep said:


> Before it gets ugly Sockpuppet, I am not advocating the extinction of all Muslims. I am advertising the wholesale destruction of those who want to kill me or make me submit. I already have blood on my hands and am more than eager to wash in more, if that is what it takes. I know there are decent muslims in the world. But I know there are several hundred thousand I would still like to meet, before I get too old.


With the exception of Kauboy and myself, you are the only one on this thread who doesn't advocate the extermination of Muslims, and actually admit that there are some decent people within the faith.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> Excuse me. It was my understanding that you subscribed to that of a dual theologian that picks and chooses which parts of the Old Testament that he believes. Its abundantly clear that you have none, to include God's own word.


There is no doubt someone is picking and choosing, and I think we all know who it is.

Now, feel free to give me those examples I have requested so that I can do the same. After all, isn't that what this has turned into? Whether or not Maine-Marine eats a live oyster doesn't kill many people, does it? Nor is he a threat to anyone's existence.


----------



## Denton

Sockpuppet said:


> With the exception of Kauboy and myself, you are the only one on this thread who doesn't advocate the extermination of Muslims, and actually admit that there are some decent people within the faith.


And, you lie again. Tell me where I have suggested the extermination of all Muslims. Take your time. While you are taking your time, feel free to stop ducking and twisting and get give me examples of how Islamic-like atrocities have been carried out by Christians in the keeping of Jesus' teachings, and I will then illustrate by using the Qur'an and the hadiths how the numerous and recent atrocities, not just by IS but by other Muslims, are in keeping with the teachings of Muhammad.


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## Denton

You probably think I am picking on you, but you called everyone who doesn't follow your way of thinking, _bigots_. After which, you have hopped, skipped and jumped away from facts while continuing the same mantra of Islam is the same as Christianity, and Christianity is the same as the KKK and the Spanish Inquisitions, Jim Jones and David Koresh. All the while, you prefer not to accept the fact that Islam, a system of religion, governance and military conquest, is quite different than any other "religious" system. You even threw in Judaism, which made absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

While I referred to the system and its teachings, you preferred to twist and reach for more mud to sling, refusing to admit that the system created by Muhammad not only condones but promotes these acts of violence against those who refuse to convert, and has done so since Muhammad's return to Mecca from Medina. No, Christianity does not do that, and neither does Judaism. To my knowledge, neither does any of the other major religions.

Today, just as it has been for hundreds of years, Islam is a threat to all other ways of life, cultures and religions. All the while, you make it seem that anyone who does not take your view on Islam is out to kill each and every Muslim. That is simply not true, either. Were it true, each and every one of us would have ample opportunity to kill a Muslim right here in the U.S.

As we not only look at the history of Islam as well as what it is, today, we see that wherever Islam is, there is trouble, death and oppression, and it is all in the name of Islam. Try as you may to make Christianity look as bad, that is not even close to being the case. As a matter of fact, attempting to compare the two is nothing short of intellectual dishonesty, and anyone can see that.

Here is an example of a recent Islamic convert. He is abiding by the teachings of Muhammad.

What happens when someone converts to Christianity and abides by the teachings of Jesus? Are they anywhere close to being the same? I'll answer that, as you will refuse to give an honest answer - of course not!

Missing Austrian Teen Surfaces on Internet Video as Islamic State Jihadi

A 16-year-old student whom Interpol reported missing has surfaced in an Internet video calling upon fellow Muslims to join the Islamic State terror group. The Viennese teenager said that killing "infidels" was now his main goal.


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## Denton

In closing, as this is a supreme waste of time, I will point this out...

Nobody is preparing for the day when Christian, abiding by the teachings of Jesus, will attack our nation's infrastructure. On the other hand, people are considering those who abide by Muhammad's teachings when they are preparing for bad times in the future.

I will rejoin this conversation when SP attempts to meet my request of giving me examples of Christians committing Islamic-type atrocities while abiding by the teachings of Jesus. At that time, I will give numerous examples of very recent acts of horror, and then quote from the Qur'an and/or the hadiths to show illustrate how those acts are condoned and promoted by Islam's founder, Muhammad.


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## Deebo

Shit, I stopped reading about page thirteen. 
I conceed , I am a bigot. 
I don't wanna know the difference between moderate, extreme, or jihady Muslims. 
I could care less, I serve GOD.
My only arguement, and statement is that if any religion was sporting a kneel or die promotion, in today's Deebo lifetime, I would fight against them. 
Will I actively go hunting, looking to hurt someone?
No, but like I said, a few more beheaded IN America, and I think some of the advocates will be in hiding. 
Right or wrong, that's how I feel. 
I respect your opinions, but I MORALLY AND SPIRITUAL Y stand behind mine. 
Love all y'all. Kinda.


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## Jeep

Sockpuppet you have chosen a very difficult subject. I for one am prejudiced against the faith as a whole. I am very against anyone who is extreme, whether that be a christian or a Muslim. I'll deal with a snake holding tongue talker the same as ISIS. If they wish. If you have not been in the sand you may want to reserve your opinion a bit. Some of these folks are just bad for the world. Hell I maybe too


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## Zed

Extermination? ?!!...Nope just deportation..
Go to your faith countries, and enjoy Halal meat...sharia law...and children and women slavery, infidel beheading. ...not here....not in our country. ..


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## Maine-Marine

Dear Sockpuppet...

It is apparent to me that you do not wish to have an honest debate of ideas... I have already said a couiple of times that non-jewish followers of Jesus Christs are not under the law and even post scripture. It is well know/understood among believers that we are not under the law but grace

It is hard to debate or discuss with people that misquote you and just plain have no understanding of things.... It is apparent that you are ignorant of the basics of my faith as a conservative Disciple of Jesus Christ.

AND I never advocated killing Muslims... i did and still do advocate for removing all of them from the USA and forbidding them from serving in the military or any intelligent service

as a minimum I would like to see all NON US muslims expelled... just like closing time at the bar...you do not have to go home - but you cant stay here.. no more student visas or work visas or vacation visas.... Want to visit...you would be subject to strict back ground check and must post a bond and not over stay or be subject to arrest


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## Arklatex

There is no point continuing this debate. It's obvious that minds will not be changed. If it ever does come down to it, I will not convert or accept dhimmitude. I believe that islam is an evil thing that is hell bent on world domination. Guess I'm a bigot too.


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## MikeyPrepper

Agreed on this



Arklatex said:


> There is no point continuing this debate. It's obvious that minds will not be changed. If it ever does come down to it, I will not convert or accept dhimmitude. I believe that islam is an evil thing that is hell bent on world domination. Guess I'm a bigot too.


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## chris135825

Just keep them away from me and I'll be personally happy


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