# Is no BOL a bad idea?



## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I live in a bedroom community of 6k people. I'm a 1hr commute from a city of 300k people. 

My home will definitely be my BIL, but I don't have a BOL for a SHTF situation. 

And, admitedly, I'm struggling with the need for a BOL. There are things that tell me that it sounds like a bad idea for me. 

For my situation, bugging out means I'll be evacuating into an agricultural area that is full of apple farms. There is no federal land to homestead on. I don't see myself affording a second mortgage. The only couple I know that lives out in the country lives on a secondary road that is the main artery for an entire valley. I think they are in a terrible defensive situation. 

I've also read that it takes a community to survive, and i think that is true for me. I am simply not rough and tough enough to be running around the bush like grizzly adams, even if I'm able to find somewhere to go.

Anyway, I hope you guys can be brutally honest and/or give me some more insight. I doubt that I'm the first to have these concerns. Thanks in advance.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I personally don't have one, just because of my living situation. But I am close to a river and train tracks, that I am sure could get me to some relatively isolated spots just in case.


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## Kahlan (Sep 16, 2014)

I don't have one. I wish I did. I'm not in the city but still too close and not secluded enough for my peace of mind. But it's just not a possibility at this time.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

No, you don't need a BOL as long as you are 100% sure no flooding, fires, tornadoes, etc will strike your area.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

For those that don't have a bug out location I hope you enjoy that FEMA camp.


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

HuntingHawk said:


> No, you don't need a BOL as long as you are 100% sure no flooding, fires, tornadoes, etc will strike your area.


How can you be 100% sure your BOL isn't hit by flooding, fires, tornadoes, etc. Do you have a BOL for your BOL ............


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

I don't have *A* BOL, I do have an entire network of friends within 30 miles in all directions. It would be very unlikely that a single event would cause all of our places to be un-livable. I've discussed TEOTWAWKI situations with a couple of them and we've decided that one of the friends that has a farm/barns/greenhouses etc. would be our "defend the zombies" spot, where we would consolidate our cache's if it ever came to that. Our 3 families capabilities and stores together would be pretty impressive regardless of which BOL we chose.

AJ


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Sometimes you have to make due with what you have. You are in a tough spot. Where do you think the people an hour away will flee to?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

The facts are that not everyone needs a bol. It 's a good idea to search for a place not too far away where you could go if your home was totally destroyed, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to buy a house or land. It just means that you could find shelter of some kind, or bring it with you, to let you ride out the troubles and get yourself reestablished.
That said, it should make you work out a list of what you'd need in order to live through that. I won't write it out because you can find plenty of them on the board. I've been through this and I'm still trying to figure out the best option for shelter. I'm quite certain I could build a log cabin of some kind. I've got several existing examples to study in this area.

Anyway, that's my take: no reason to bug out if you're fairly secure where you are.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

HuntingHawk said:


> No, you don't need a BOL as long as you are 100% sure no flooding, fires, tornadoes, etc will strike your area.


In all those cases, I see no problem showing up at the door step of my friends in the country. I have the means to arrive in an RV fully self contained but they would be incredible hosts if needed.

So, I guess I'm really thinking of a collapse where there are people that have formed gangs.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Jeep said:


> I personally don't have one, just because of my living situation. But I am close to a river and train tracks, that I am sure could get me to some relatively isolated spots just in case.


I know your area well enough to say that there are areas where privately owned land doesn't exist. Same goes for my old stomping grounds to the north of you. In BC, probably 95% of the countryside is crown land.

However, in my current - east coast - area, the crown land is about 20%. Take away the wilderness areas that will be swarming with too many hikers that will be "bugging out" and I'm not very optimist at finding my little piece of paradise


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

tinkerhell said:


> I know your area well enough to say that there are areas where privately owned land doesn't exist. Same goes for my old stomping grounds to the north of you. In BC, probably 95% of the countryside is crown land.
> 
> However, in my current - east coast - area, the crown land is about 20%. Take away the wilderness areas that will be swarming with too many hikers that will be "bugging out" and I'm not very optimist at finding my little piece of paradise


Well, if you're going to bug out, odds are it's because you're not coming back. That can actually expand your choices. In that case, you can tell 'the crown' to stuff it. FInd the right spot and practice getting to it. You should be able to find a safe spot.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Sometimes you have to make due with what you have. You are in a tough spot. Where do you think the people an hour away will flee to?


Now you are scaring me, the people fleeing the city, or at least a fair number of them, will be coming to my town or passing through it.

Also, there is a school less than 100 yards from me that could become a neighborhood wrecker if it is used to shelter desparate people. :-(


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

A J said:


> I don't have *A* BOL, I do have an entire network of friends within 30 miles in all directions. It would be very unlikely that a single event would cause all of our places to be un-livable. I've discussed TEOTWAWKI situations with a couple of them and we've decided that one of the friends that has a farm/barns/greenhouses etc. would be our "defend the zombies" spot, where we would consolidate our cache's if it ever came to that. Our 3 families capabilities and stores together would be pretty impressive regardless of which BOL we chose.
> 
> AJ


I envy you. Also, this highlights one of my problems...

I've only lived in this part of the country for 5 years. I don't know many people, and I don't know the countryside. And, my inlaws have been useless at showing me where to fish, hunt, camp, go for firewood, etc. Being local to they area, they have never had incomes to enjoy a normal life. Some are stereotypical white trash, not outstanding blue collar, not capable ******** either. Which brings me to another concern, I consider them all an OPSEC liability, if any of them catch wind of what Im doing, the white trash will hear about it, too......OMG, I'm screwed LOL


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Hmm. You could always move and leave and forget to post a forwarding address... . I'd sure give it serious consideration!


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

tinkerhell said:


> Now you are scaring me, the people fleeing the city, or at least a fair number of them, will be coming to my town or passing through it.
> 
> Also, there is a school less than 100 yards from me that could become a neighborhood wrecker if it is used to shelter desparate people. :-(


 That is why we are well out of town and have control (owner ship means little at that point) over a wide path. And enough to defend it. SHTF will not bring out common the good in the herd. Not going to happen.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

new avatar alert. I'm a guy so a tinkbell pic was out of the question.


edit: oops, false alarm, it hasn't changed


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I was pretty accurately diagnosed by 2nd grade as one who does not make friends easy or play well with others. Aint nobody I know in the right mind would be glad to see me bugging out to where they are. We are determined to do the hunker down routine.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

I live way out in the country. My concern is wildfire & not flooding. My bug out (primary) is 25 miles away & also country. Her main concern is flooding. Its a two way street in that she needs to bug out she comes here. I need to bug out I go there. Living in Florida, either of us can be affected by a tornado.
On the other hand, I have a 20ft shipping container as a storm shelter & that is where 80% of my emergency stores are. Small 520watt solar system so will always have some electric. A 5500watt generator as long as there is fuel. A rain catch & storage system so always will have some water on the property to purify & use.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

just did some searching online. I found 144 listings of properties 0-10 acres. under $25,000. Many are in piss pot towns, or on a lake.

Here's one that sounds cool for recreation as well as getting very antisocial:



> $6000. 2 +/- Acres with frontage on Lake D****n and bordered on one side by *****s Brook. Accessible by boat only. Have your own private place for camping, hunting, fishing or just to explore and relax.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

When I bought this farm 38 years ago. I was told you paid to much,farming has no future the house is shot and this area will just go away. Well seems I may not have paid enough. Built a new house on it rebuilt the old farm house. yes the area did thin out as far as people go , but that turned out to be ok. It did not happen over night and at times it was touch and go, but we made it.
We know this land, family has owned and worked it sense the first settlers came here. We have spent time figuring out how they made it here with out any of the things we now have. Not looking forward to it but they did we can too.
The people that will be here when the time comes will bring skills, we will eat we will stay warm. Wisconsin will not be a place many will head to SHTF. It is a place most will run from. Winter in this part of the country is to hard on most of them now. We will be happy to let them leave.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

I dont have a bol, and i'm pretty sure i dont need one. I don't want to take it on the road with a million unpreped peckerheads out trying to get stuff they didn't prep for. I think movement would be too dangerous, at least the first few months, once the sheep die off that's another story. traffic jams, marauders, cons who got loose,and cities, would be between me and any safe location. Then ya got the govt a**holes who are trying to round up stragglers for their fema camps? No way , fortifing the house, and trying to dissuade any numb nuts that want to try and take the stuff i got, will probably be a full time job. (chain link over the windows and pungi pits are kinda eyesore pre shtf)


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I'm just putting my thoughts out there as they come. In a community close to a big centre, if i find myself using armed force against a mob infront of my house, (I'm in Canada) I may be forced to abandon my house to avoid being arrested. Where as out in the country, I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow if a group finds their way onto a person's property and some of them get shot. In fact, if it was isolated enough, you could shoot and shovel.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

What would have to happen in order to bug out...I do not mean leaving for a few days..but an all out time to leave


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

That's always going to be variable. I think that when civil authority goes out the window and people are dying on a regular basis, most people will bug out, if possible.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

There is a way to get a BOL almost free. The cost will be gasoline and travel. 

There is BLM land somewhere you can bug out too. Start google earthing it and research some spots and then go camping. Find the perfect public land bug out spot that's not easy to get too and bury some not too valuable assets to use on the space if you ever go there.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

When the thin blue line, ie the minimum amount of police to keep a civilized country in-line, is no longer able to keep the peace.

AND

Gangs or rioters have turned on the public.

I am comfortable with the belief that it will happen in another neighborhood several days before my neighborhood.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I've thought about going to public land I have scouted. Seems the same as scouting public land for hunting. The place you picked out already has someone on it when the time comes. my .02.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

IMHO - unless you live in downtown LA or NYC - you should have some warning or time. 

I do not see leaving where I am at now..EMP/Dollar Collapse/Pandemic...I am good... 
If foreign troops come in or the US Gov decides to void the Constitution...I will have some time...since I doubt they are going to send a lot of troops to MY CITY in North Western PA - But if it comes to armed conflict with troops...I will play it day by day....Of course with drones no place short of underground will work


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

tinkerhell said:


> I am comfortable with the belief that it will happen in another neighborhood several days before my neighborhood.


me too


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> IMHO - unless you live in downtown LA or NYC - you should have some warning or time.
> 
> I do not see leaving where I am at now..EMP/Dollar Collapse/Pandemic...I am good...
> If foreign troops come in or the US Gov decides to void the Constitution...I will have some time...since I doubt they are going to send a lot of troops to MY CITY in North Western PA - But if it comes to armed conflict with troops...I will play it day by day....Of course with drones no place short of underground will work


Maybe we can recruit some of those hawks that took down one of their drones, don't have a link off-hand. Sorry.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

That's the moment at which you find out if tshtf. If the other person(s) react with instant unfriendly action, then you'll find out who wants that spot more. Or, you can find a spot not 'claimed' by anyone else. Surely Canada isn't so crowded that there aren't areas with no people. A nice forested hillside on the east slope, hopefully near water, should be available somewhere.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Well, i know it is only anedoctal, but anytime I have a permanent tree stand or duck blind ( about half a dozen times), I've arrived to find someone else using it. Clearly, I don't go deep enough into the wild when i limit my walking to 100 yards from my truck.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

tinkerhell said:


> Well, i know it is only anedoctal, but anytime I have a permanent tree stand or duck blind ( about half a dozen times), I've arrived to find someone else using it. Clearly, I don't go deep enough into the wild when i limit my walking to 100 yards from my truck.


I think that is the worst of unsocial behavior...taking a seat in a tree stand that is not yours...


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

For some, bugging out is not an option. For many others, a BOL is not an option financially. Nor is leaving work "on a whim" because things don't "look right". I live on a large rural peninsula, right next to a REALLY BIG peninsula with mountains and forests from one side to the other. Guess where lots of stupid, *******, macho, weekend warrior folks are going to head? To those mountains and forests. So what we may think would be a sanctuary, actually has the potential of becoming very dangerous. 

If I do Bug Out, I'm headed to the High School where I work. Enough said on that... ::redsnipe::


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## taps50 (Sep 28, 2013)

In my opinion everyone should have a BOL, I know a lot of people on here are planning to stay at there homes (Which if it is in a rural location is not a bad Idea), but you never know when a large group may decide they want your land and will give anything to take it. We all talk about being prepared, most don't think that there home will be overrun but it may happen. I also believe you don't need to own the land to make it your BOL, although it would be better to make long term preparations, as long as it is somewhere not many people know of and capable to defend. I myself have 3 places I can go, only one is owned by my family. Look at the show "the walking dead", I know its fake but they were all to comfortable in that prison, and when it was overthrown they didn't have another location to fall back to which lead to everyone scattering wondering if there friends are alive. I know if this was my family I would have had another location within two weeks of settling in at that prison and would have multiple routes to said BOL.


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## Zed (Aug 14, 2014)

BOL, BIL, whatever you may say...the location isn't important..you and your family is!!
Be flexible like nomads who travel to find more greener pastures...
If your present house will be enough to save you and your family then why to leave it?
If house is on fire then, your BOL, if even that is affected, find another...
Its just matter of your knowledge like Matriarch in Elephant herd..lead your family where is possible to survive..
Rigid thinking won't help...Be flexible and adaptable


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

bigdogbuc said:


> For some, bugging out is not an option. For many others, a BOL is not an option financially. Nor is leaving work "on a whim" because things don't "look right". I live on a large rural peninsula, right next to a REALLY BIG peninsula with mountains and forests from one side to the other. Guess where lots of stupid, *******, macho, weekend warrior folks are going to head? To those mountains and forests. So what we may think would be a sanctuary, actually has the potential of becoming very dangerous.
> 
> If I do Bug Out, I'm headed to the High School where I work. Enough said on that... ::redsnipe::


You really have ******* types out there? Wow. Anyway, if you apply some time and social engineering, you could be ok. What you would need to do is find a very small town(below 3000). Move there immediately to a house with defensive possibilities (old farmhouse with a barn?). Start prepping AND getting to know people in town. Chances are good that by the time any shtf reaches there, you'll have networked wihh enough people to ensure survival. You may even find some friends :grin:


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

tinkerhell said:


> Well, i know it is only anedoctal, but anytime I have a permanent tree stand or duck blind ( about half a dozen times), I've arrived to find someone else using it. Clearly, I don't go deep enough into the wild when i limit my walking to 100 yards from my truck.


100 yards? Try more like 15 or so miles. You are there to survive, not drive into town on Fridays to catch a movie! Too bad you don't live here. In the US, it's possible to buy and build on State parkland, if you follow regs to the letter.


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## Ripley (Oct 17, 2014)

Having a BOL is a nice idea, but don't let it lull you into a false sense of security. You may not be able to get to it, others may get there first, or it could be seized. Taking steps to make sure your current home is defensible while having a few acres with a cabin/container/camper on it with access to water is what I consider ideal. If you are fortunate, you may be able to find an undeveloped acreage and pay cash for it. Sometimes run-down farmhouses come up for sale at a very reasonable price. Why not buy one and renovate as you can afford to?


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

I guess some here have never heard of mandatory evacuation like from wildfires, chemical spills, gas leaks, etc or just in denial it can happen to them. Tornadoes can happen anywhere in the country. A mandatory evacuation you might be permitted to return the next day or a few days later. But no telling what you will return to. Never heard of anyone that lives in the country that plans to evacuate to a city.

Unless its family, you really need to culture a BOL location. Find like minded people. And its a RSVP thing. You need to evacuate come to my place & if I need to, to have the option to your place. I really don't want a BOL so far that I can't readily return to check that I can return. I've a place 20 miles south & another 25 miles north as BOLs. Both places I have something major to provide which is security & my generator as both places are like mine in that they have their own well pump.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I like AJs situation the best. If you can muster up a group of like minded individuals it almost negates the need of a personal bol. You can bug out to your buddies place and vice versa if the need to bug out arises. Also, for the financially strapped, your group can all throw down money to buy a bol property and set it up as plan c. In the meantime you will enjoy the recreational use of that land. I also like the idea of staying flexible.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

And that brings up the option of hunting lease land that you can have "semi permanent structures" on. This is not at all unusual in Florida. The group rents the land. Cheaper to get into then a group buying land. And I know of lease land that contract states anything brought onto the property must have wheels. They have some school buses without engines but they are moveable.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks to everyone. I really enjoy the ideas in this thread. I've evolved several times since it started. And, hope it keeps going.

I think I'm settling down to the idea that a bol is not a rigidly defined one size fits all idea. There are plenty of options that will fit my needs if I spend the time to think about it.

I think I am learning towards an agressive BIL with a mobile bug out plan to multiple locations. Eventually, in about 5 years, I like the idea of purchasing a vacant or rundown property. I found several the other day ranging fron 6k to 25k, definitely in my reach if I make it a priority. And, my wife won't be able to stop me if I might it a 5 yr plan.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Very possible, but it's why you have to pick something very remote and not likely to be found....at least not by the hoards. I'm not saying it's an easy selection, but at least the cost is right.



1skrewsloose said:


> I've thought about going to public land I have scouted. Seems the same as scouting public land for hunting. The place you picked out already has someone on it when the time comes. my .02.


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## jimLE (Feb 8, 2014)

*unless a person is already located in a prime location where they can stay put in a worse case situation.like pandemic or power grid **failure.but like huntinghawk pointed out.only reason for bugging out while in a idea location,is tornadoes wildfires,and/or what ever.which means having a place to bugout to in such cases.be it a tempary location of your own.or a family members home.then go back to primary location and rebuild when you can..

in my case.i can bug in untill further notice..further notice is when it starts getting to bad where i live.i live 6 miles outside of a small town of 1,225..in which ppl will be heading out of town looking for a better/safer location eventually...my problem is.my best bugout location for now.is 160-200 miles from where i am right now.which means the gas tank better be full when i bug out..and yes.i will bugout when needed..even if it means leaveing items behind that i need to leave,just to get out safely...*


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## mcangus (Jun 3, 2014)

Probably already mentioned, a BOL doesn't have to be something you buy. Can be family or friends home or BOL. It wouldn't be wise for everyone in your group to have their own BOL. The problem is finding someone with a BOL and finding out if they are into prepping or not. If you eventually get to the point of forming your own group, you can do a group buy on a property, which can be tricky because of the money issue, but that is an option.

So you don't have to actually go out and buy the land by yourself.


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## jimLE (Feb 8, 2014)

*thats the deal for me,when it comes to bol's..i know at least 2 ppl who'll let me in and all..(BUT) the problem to me is this..distance...and one of them lives further then the other..but yet.both locations are good locations if i figure right..so it's a great idea for me to head to one of them,instead of a family's home..on account each of my family members lives to close to other ppl..and id rather go elsewhere instead.*


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

For most of us, a 100% Perfect Place (BOL) does not exist so you do the best with what you have and prepare, prepare, prepare. 

Most of us are not True Warriors; only a small percentage of people are. BUT some of us have seen a Warrior Within ourselves and do possess one deep inside...The Warrior Within may just be sleeping and waiting to be released. My biggest concern is not our location (we tried to pick the best one that we could).

My biggest concern IF and WHEN the SHTF or WROL... is that I recognize it quickly and that the Warrior Within Me is released and the Middle Age/Middle Class Nice Guy goes to his appropriate place when necessary. Like Smitty says; If you cannot defend it, you are only holding it for someone else.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

If you don't have a BOL just leave everything at home & report to the nearest FEMA camp.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

I hear every excuse there is for not having a BOL. No hurricanes here. No tornadoes here. No earthquakes here. But no smart ass answer after I ask them what they do after a house fire.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> I hear every excuse there is for not having a BOL. No hurricanes here. No tornadoes here. No earthquakes here. But no smart ass answer after I ask them what they do after a house fire.


What about the "I haven't got any money to go out and purchase a second property" excuse? What do those people get?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

I think we get to go out and find an alternative. And in some cases the alternatives aren't good and you face the ultimate choice: get set up for bugging in or pull up roots and bug out now to somewhere safer. Yes, I mean sell the house, if you own one and move. Even change jobs if you can. It seems a harsh choice, but how much is your life worth?


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

dannydefense said:


> What about the "I haven't got any money to go out and purchase a second property" excuse? What do those people get?


Though ideal, you don't need to own a second property. Find others & do a swap basically. Here's a spot on my property for you if something happens in your area. Where is my spot on your property if something happens in my area? I have that deal with a friend 20 miles south of me & another 25 miles north.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

A problem I have is not enough vehicle to move the dogs & me plus gear & food. So my plan is to save up for a used 26-30ft Class A motorhome self contained. Mainly for generator & AC.


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## jimLE (Feb 8, 2014)

*the van we have,has a hitch.so i want to get a utility box trailer to load up whats needed.and wont fit into the van..*


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I have friends that will give me a place to park, and they will likely open their home to me. UnfotunTely, none of them are prepping, They will be perfect enough for a fire or other disaster but a liability for SHTF


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Jim, consider getting a tandem axle so it is hard to overload.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Showing up at someone's house & saying we need shelter isn't ideal. By the way, would you feed us? Most would say no to that. Some nice folks might say ok but you leave in the morning.
My point is proper planning is critical. Not only where to go but what to take.

A tent for shelter is going to be less then ideal. Having a small enclosed trailer would be a fair choice because it can be left half packed all the time. Cots can be used to use the inside as a bunk house upon arriving. A travel trailer would be better for living in but they have very limited load capacity for gear.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

HuntingHawk said:


> Showing up at someone's house & saying we need shelter isn't ideal. By the way, would you feed us? Most would say no to that. Some nice folks might say ok but you leave in the morning.
> My point is proper planning is critical. Not only where to go but what to take.
> 
> A tent for shelter is going to be less then ideal. Having a small enclosed trailer would be a fair choice because it can be left half packed all the time. Cots can be used to use the inside as a bunk house upon arriving. A travel trailer would be better for living in but they have very limited load capacity for gear.


I don't know what sort of vehicle you are going to use to pull with. I know you can pick up a used 28' travel trailer for around $10k. It only takes a 3/4 ton pickup to pull it. There's a fair amount of room in them. Put heavy stuff in the truck bed and lighter items in the trailer.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

A tandem axle trailer isn't usually the best choice since so many like myself have down sized their vehicles for better gas mileage. You need to look at what the tow capacity of your vehicle is first. Then capacity of the hitch. Then balance tow capacity after weight added to the inside.
Overloading a trailer will be just trouble in just pulling that weight as well as possibility of failure like blowing a tire. And you can blow a tire on any trailer if weight isn't right in it.

There are a lot that have compact SUVs. Load capacity on a lot of them is 3,000-3,500lbs. 1,000lb trailer with 2,000lbs of gear would match up nice. Smaller would be a 500lb trailer that would handle 1,00lbs of gear. Even a small trailer like made to transport a golf cart or ATV will allow you to take extra gear outside the vehicle.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

ThePearTree, my plan is the opposite. Last year I traded in a 4X4 that got 12MPG for a compact SUV that gets a minimum of 24. My plan is a class A or maybe a class C & tow the SUV behind it. Can easily load 1,000lbs of gear in the SUV doing that.
Class C isn't built for carrying much weight & the larger they are usually the less weight they will carry. Most are a Ford 350 or 450 chassis with a Ford 460 engine which is plenty of power. But they will only handle so much weight.

Specifically, I want to go with a class A as small as I can get with a tandem axle which allows a minimum of 2,000lbs extra load capacity & might be as much as 5,000. To have one that is self contained. Depending on the floor plan, 30ft is long enough for my needs but you normally don't find tandem axles till about 35ft. For me, ideal bug out vehicle as well as guest house.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

You can only carry so much weight. But with a wheel burrow you can easily double that. With a hand cart it can easily be 5X what you can carry. A trailer behind your vehicle is the same principle.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

True. It's a solid plan. If you get the right class A, you can put a ton or so in storage bays.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

My RAV4 is FWD so can use a tow dolly. That means very little downward weight on the rear of the motorhome. Class A with a tag axle I'm looking at load capacity of 3-5,000lbs & tow capacity of 3,500-5,000lbs. So an additional 800-1,000lbs of gear loaded in the RAV4. But would go lighter then that because all the weight will be on the rear tires. Just the fact of being able to put multiple filled 5gal gas cans in it will be a plus.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Homedepot sells a 5x10 cargo hauler. It is a very clean attractive package however it is only a single axle. Subtracting the weight of the trailer leaves you with a trailer that can handle about 2000 lbs.

My half ton, strange as it sounds, is actually rated for 2200 lb payload and passengers. I hauled 2114 lbs of steel dumbbells in it last month and it handled it quite well. 

I didn't buy the homedepot trailer, instead, I bought a farmer built trailer. It is a 6x10 cargo trailer, it has 2 axles both rated for 3500 lbs. I've used it to move across the country and it can't be overloaded, even with furniture strapped to the top, there is simply not even space in it to be over loaded. Last year I put 2 cords of green wood in it and did not overload it.

This winter, I want to convert it into a minimalist camper with army cots, wood burning stove, and a flip top/tarp system. As a BOV, I would reserve it for cargo, and sleep in the canopy of my truck. If I had to homestead with it, I would have the truck canopy, popup trailer, and an 8x16 tent. I also want to test a hammock system in the trailer. Years ago, I made a boyscout styled 'kitchen in a box'. Minimalist camping this way will not be as bad as it sounds.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Please forgive me if I repeat someones answer since I am having trouble reading all the responses and keeping my thoughts in order. I have 4 BOL, none of which I own. 1st is a near by farm that provides stocked ponds for fishing and he runs a business providing farm raised fish for restaurants its a mutually beneficial relationship where I offer tactical knowledge and security for the food and land. Next is National forestry areas that are 1 of 3 movement locations to a family BOL. I have planned my movements which could take up to a couple months depending on conditions...or as little as two weeks. Finally is a family farm with a small community of people who are self sufficient.

SO what I am saying is you can learn basic skills and move through federal/state parks lands...if they exist around you to get to a more friendlier place...and you can get to know people in that end location place by attending church there or getting to know some folks by talking to them. You don't have to have a ready made 40 acre BOL to make it...just get to know people and contribute in a meaningful way.


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## jimLE (Feb 8, 2014)

*in my case,one thats somewhere between 5x10 and 5x20 would work for me..and even then,what i load up into it might not add up to 100 LB'S,if that much..even the**n,that includes a hoveround scooter. that weighs somewhere around 206 LB'S..plus,id have cabinets running along each side and mounted to the sidewalls..im also thinking of having a location for the fridge/freezer.and a generator on the tongue for power..and of course,a tank or something for a steady supply of water to the water/ice dispensers on the fridge door..*


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## NoobMom (Oct 16, 2014)

Depending on the situation I see two options:

1) stay at my current house. I have extra room at my house and a finished basement so I could invite friends/family here to defend our house. They could bring some food and supplies with them. I could invite a trusted ex-military or cop friend to stay here. I am very close to most of my neighbors and we know everyone in the neighborhood so I hope we would band together...

2) Go to my aunt's house in the mountains of NC. She has 3 houses on the property and ~20 acres. She has a well, beehives and fruit trees. I could bring my supplies there. We would bring our parents/siblings too. It's a large area and would need lots of help to defend if the SHTF. This is kinda the place I would go if it gets really, really bad but it's 2.5 hours away.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

NoobMom said:


> Depending on the situation I see two options:
> 
> 1) stay at my current house. I have extra room at my house and a finished basement so I could invite friends/family here to defend our house. They could bring some food and supplies with them. I could invite a trusted ex-military or cop friend to stay here. I am very close to most of my neighbors and we know everyone in the neighborhood so I hope we would band together...
> 
> 2) Go to my aunt's house in the mountains of NC. She has 3 houses on the property and ~20 acres. She has a well, beehives and fruit trees. I could bring my supplies there. We would bring our parents/siblings too. It's a large area and would need lots of help to defend if the SHTF. This is kinda the place I would go if it gets really, really bad but it's 2.5 hours away.


In your case, I don't think the distance is a bad thing. Certainly for any long term shtf, the mountain stronghold is the way to go. Unless it's just off a major highway, you shouldn't have to worry about defending against invading hordes. Think about seeing if you can start storing non-perishable items there. Sure wish I had a relative nearby yours .


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

For me, I have considered the 5300 km trip through 7 provinces to get back to the mountains as a suicide run. That is way to many miles of being vulnerable and in strange territory.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

tinkerhell said:


> For me, I have considered the 5300 km trip through 7 provinces to get back to the mountains as a suicide run. That is way to many miles of being vulnerable and in strange territory.


In your case it certainly would be deadly. That's far too long a way to go. I can't think of any shtf situation that would allow you to take that kind of trip and survive.


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