# Carrying concealed or open when general hiking



## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Usually I go on hikes with no protection except a walking stick, but now with the "new ways" that people rob others, I'm thinking about packing either my 40 with me or a .22. The 40 for any atackers or bears and/or the .22 for atackers or snakes. 

What are you thoughts about this, do you pack (open or concealed) when doing a normal hike with the family?


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

If I'm hiking on public property where I suspect I will encounter other hikers / people I will conceal. If its my property, which is damn rattle snake infested, I carry open and for very quick draw. Maybe I'm getting older or they are getting sneakier but I find myself taking them out at the last second more and more often lately - little shits.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I carry concealed 95% of the time except PFZ's. If open carrying while walking in the woods, it's a long gun over my shoulder , or my cover shirt was taken off exposing the G19.

1.8 seconds drawing from cover should do it, although 1.3 seconds from open carry is faster.

A hot loaded G23 would work on 4 legged predators well. I'd go concealed if legal to do so, one can always switch to open by tucking your shirt or jacket behind the handgun.

This time of year I just pocket carry a Kahr CW9 in my Berne jacket


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## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

When I go camping/hiking I open carry. Protection from both bears and people.


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## JPARIZ (Feb 25, 2013)

I ALWAYS carry concealed. Don't leave home without it. 
It's not just you, others may need protection as well.


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## Sr40ken (Nov 21, 2012)

If I'm in the woods, .357 magunm in the open. Around two legged critters in town, .40 concealed.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I think I will start carrying open when hiking, for the simple fact the more people carry open the more other people will take it as normal.


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## Southern Dad (Nov 26, 2012)

I have the option to carry open or concealed. Most often, I carry concealed but there are times that what I am wearing doesn't make that convenient. If I'm not wearing a windbreaker, jacket or sweater it is not easy to keep a weapon hidden. Rather than look like I'm attempting to hide it, I will then wear it openly. I don't want my weapon to be halfway concealed. A poorly concealed weapon tends to really upset more people than an openly carried weapon.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

survival said:


> Usually I go on hikes with no protection except a walking stick, but now with the "new ways" that people rob others, I'm thinking about packing either my 40 with me or a .22. The 40 for any atackers or bears and/or the .22 for atackers or snakes.
> 
> What are you thoughts about this, do you pack (open or concealed) when doing a normal hike with the family?


I'm in AZ so open carry is pretty common around these parts. I usually see it once or twice a week in the normal course of my day. I myself carry a .40 concealed on most occasions. It's on me right this very minute.

When I hike I carry open and I carry a Taurus .357 with a 6" bbl. It is a nice heavy piece and accurate as all hell even out at distance. I find the .357 has the heft to stop coyotes, bears, wolves, skunks (special note - DO NOT SHOOT A SKUNK!), or the other two legged predators out in the wilderness. For smaller prey, I flip over to 38 Snake / Rat shot. Because it is a revolver (Double Single Action) I don't have to worry about a feed failure like the .40 would. I've thought about the .22 but you still have a good chance of a ricochet if you are shooting at the ground by or near your feet. If a snake is further off than that, I just give him space and go about my bidness.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Sr40ken said:


> If I'm in the woods, .357 magunm in the open. Around two legged critters in town, .40 concealed.


+1 Exactly!


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

i feel nekkid hiking with out and think about it everyonther step. i am usually by myself when i go hiking. here in los angeles open or concealed is a problem.
i need to move.


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## JPARIZ (Feb 25, 2013)

shotlady said:


> i feel nekkid hiking with out and think about it everyonther step. i am usually by myself when i go hiking. here in los angeles open or concealed is a problem.
> i need to move.


Yeah I need to move too. I read that most traffic accidents happen within 5 miles of home so it looks like we are outa here. It totally sucks we love our house & neighborhood, it's really gonna suck to leave.
Reminds me of another statistic I read about... I read that during the holidays as high as 27% of all traffic accidents are caused by drunk drivers! I thought that was excessive until I realized that the remaining 73% are caused by sober drivers. Maybe the drunks were right and they really do drive better. ;-)


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## AsteroidX (Dec 11, 2012)

LOL JP !! :shock:


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## JDE101 (Nov 9, 2012)

I have a concealed carry permit, and I carry where ever it is legal to do so. I put on my pants in the morning an holster my 1911. So obviously, if I go on a hike, I am carrying, just as I am when I go to the grocery store, out to eat, or to take the garbage out to the back or answer the door. *Always* carry if it is legal to do so!


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## WoadWarrior (Oct 10, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> 1.8 seconds drawing from cover should do it, although 1.3 seconds from open carry is faster.


Aqua... I would never doubt what you are saying... but even an LEO with thousands of practice draws from an open holster is still considered FAST at 1.5 seconds (and I assume you include placing an aimed shot in that), which is why we are trained to shoot a subject with a knife at 25 ft (since he can cross that distance in about 1.5 seconds). Drawing concealed at 1.8 seconds is faster than most experienced LEOs draw with an open holster. If you really can draw a concealed pistol, aim, shoot, and hit what you aimed at that quick, then I am truly impressed and would love to have you on my team when SHTF.


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## Renec (Dec 21, 2012)

concealed on a daily basis..but we've digressed! Hiking? I used to wear a .380 on a leg holster,but now just carry my M&P 45 and I wear/carry in the open while hiking/camping/offroading..we're in AZ,so open/concealed isn't a huge issue..unless you run across the immigrants from California(who freak out)..been seeing a lot of "No Cal" stickers on vehicles lately..instead of the "So Cal"


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

All the LEO that I know (used to belong to the police range) couldn't get their guns out of the holster in 3 seconds. Most of then don't practice and they only shoot once a month and that is done with light target ammo. I practice with my guns from every position. If you think you can draw fast try it from a seated position with a table or desk in front of you - or in your car. I don't wear my pancake holster very often because there are too many positions where it is hard to get to. My shoulder rig is only hard to get to if I am laying on it or if I have to use my weak arm to get to it. My brothers and I used to practice at twenty-five yards drawing from different positions shooting at a silhoette firing fire rounds instinctively: right shoulder, left shoulder, heart, head, heart. those five shots were completed in less than three seconds when starting with the gun in the holster. My weak hand shooting the same course of fire took an extra second or so and I usually shot an extra inch to the right. I could never quite get that fixed but I am practicing again only this time it will be just double-taps to the head. We also trained with shotguns from the hip, and snap shooting big bore rifles. (bolt action)
If you want to be accurate - then practice. If you want to be fast - the practice. If you want to be fast and accurate then practice, practice and practice.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

WoadWarrior said:


> Aqua... I would never doubt what you are saying... but even an LEO with thousands of practice draws from an open holster is still considered FAST at 1.5 seconds (and I assume you include placing an aimed shot in that), which is why we are trained to shoot a subject with a knife at 25 ft (since he can cross that distance in about 1.5 seconds). Drawing concealed at 1.8 seconds is faster than most experienced LEOs draw with an open holster. If you really can draw a concealed pistol, aim, shoot, and hit what you aimed at that quick, then I am truly impressed and would love to have you on my team when SHTF.


1.8 on target, 1.3 close to target , but on the paper. I practice with an airsoft G26 in my Tagua Quik Draw holster that I carry my real G19 in. I stand in front of a full length mirror in the barn to watch my form.

I would be over 2 seconds if I actually aimed

Different types of cover garment affect the draw. A T-Shirt in the summer is great. I lift up the shirt as I'm reaching for the grip with my right. Of course Murphy interjects his opinion from time to time.

A CarHart jacket today would add a second or even two to the time.That's why I carry a P3-AT or CW9 in my front coat pocket. I can walk with my hands in my pocket for a faster draw


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

I just don't see open carry the smart choice unless you're on your own property or a friends. Anywhere out in public among stranger with the way people are these days like scared little mice at the sight of a gun and the way the our LEO's react to calls at times, it's foolish. You're best keeping your business, your business and not airing it out to everyone leaiving them to judge and react to it. I train and draw quite fast from concealed carry with the open top holsters I prefer. Extremely close to the thumb snap holsters I use for open use. When open carrying your giving away the advantage of looking less of a threat too which changes the way a person will deal with you from the get go. If they've got intention to harm and see you armed their going to deal with you first if they decide to engage and that means you probably having less time to deal with that threat before you know it is. I know how I'd be if I was the threat and came across someone armed and prefer to look at it in that way on the opposite side. If I was the threat and saw someone armed and decided to deal with them I would not give away view of my weapon or me till I had the drop on them and if I was good about it they'd never know I was there till they saw their own brains flying by the second before they died.


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## 9UC (Dec 21, 2012)

Fuzzee said:


> I just don't see open carry the smart choice unless you're on your own property or a friends. Anywhere out in public among stranger with the way people are these days like scared little mice at the sight of a gun and the way the our LEO's react to calls at times, it's foolish. You're best keeping your business, your business and not airing it out to everyone leaiving them to judge and react to it............


Very well said Fuzzee! For a roughly a year before I got my CCW I carried "open" I carried the gun to and from the car, but seldom, but it remained in the car even though unpermitted open carry is legal here. Nature of the beast, I had to carry open for three years as part of military duties and I was never comfortable and always felt as thought it made me a target, especially when working main gate at TSN, RVN. The only time I'm not carrying during waking hours is if I have to go out to the base commissary or hospital and/or other legally designated " free target zone" free, sorry, I meant "Gun free Zone".


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I always carry concealed. I used to use a military flap holster but it was hard to access and I didn't like the attention it drew. Carrying in a shoulder rig there is nothing in the way when packing 35 - 50 pounds in a good pack. You are always better off when facing two legged wolves with the element of surprise on your side.


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## Alpha-17 (Nov 16, 2012)

As others have said, it depends on if the area is public, or private property. I typically conceal carry for walks in public, but with an OWB holster.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

National parks have had the greatest increase in crime than any other part of the country including violent crime. This is according to the FBI crime stats but this does not include Indian Reservations that I suspect has a higher crime rate. I believe when hiking I carry open carry because it's tough enough to get to a firearm with pack and gear on that I don't need to add clothing or other cover.


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## cant (Aug 9, 2013)

1.3 seconds, for reaction time, draw and hit a man's chest, at 5 yds, is a bit slow, even from concealment. with open carry, .80 second is much more like it,and .70 second is quite feasible to attain. Now if you are talking about hitting the small mark of a snake, yes, those slower times are ballpark.


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## cant (Aug 9, 2013)

if a guy can cover 25 ft in 1.5 seconds, from a standing start, he should be in the Olympics, guys. 2 full seconds or more is a lot more like it, and no, 1.5 seconds, from open wear, is not a fast draw and hit, unless you are talking 25 yds of range or more. Now, it might be ok, from some screwy "security rig", but not from something with a simple tension device to secure the pistol. yes, I am talking about using an electronic timer, starting from "surrender" and an average of 5 draws and hits, on the chest.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Hiking concealed or open is optional, hiking without it not so much. If the weather is nice open carry if it looks like rain concealed.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Concealed hiking or errands in town going to range or shooting spot open carry. Carry when you can telling or printing just not an option.


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## pastornator (Apr 5, 2013)

I prefer open carry when on the trail. No real need to conceal.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

I carry a switch. I hiked from Georgia to Maine and never felt the need for a gun.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

retired guard said:


> Concealed hiking or errands in town going to range or shooting spot open carry. Carry when you can telling or printing just not an option.


As opposed to in town carry. 
I see it as a different set of conditions. 
In the woods I don't think a tell or printing is going to matter.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

cant said:


> if a guy can cover 25 ft in 1.5 seconds, from a standing start, he should be in the Olympics, guys. 2 full seconds or more is a lot more like it, and no, 1.5 seconds, from open wear, is not a fast draw and hit, unless you are talking 25 yds of range or more. Now, it might be ok, from some screwy "security rig", but not from something with a simple tension device to secure the pistol. yes, I am talking about using an electronic timer, starting from "surrender" and an average of 5 draws and hits, on the chest.


1.5 seconds is a perfect case scenario.
A perfect athlete.
Wearing perfect shoes.
On a perfect track.
No obstacles.
No additional weight.

In reality you will be ambushed by some one who is not perfect under less than ideal circumstances.
Covering this ground with a slight incline, on a loose trail, or over broken ground will double or tripple the 1.5 second time.

Train for 1.5 but make best use of your 4 seconds.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

It is actually 21 feet in 1.5 seconds, or roughly the length of a 4 door sedan.
From a standing stop I can briskly step it off in about four seconds (short legs).
In the woods on a trail, that time frame could vary considerably. Unless the attacker is swooping own on you from the tree, he will have to contend with the same terrain and environmental conditions as you. It works both ways.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

The answer is both.


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## Nuklhed (Feb 17, 2013)

Funny enough, I carried a long gun into the woods. When running into hikers, I was asked, "What are you doing with that gun? Are you hunting?" I replied, "This ain't downtown [insert name of big city], you never know what you're going to run into."
One hiker asked me to not shoot him, mistaking him for a bear.

People sure are assholes.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Some folks are just afraid of everything.


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## Go2ndAmend (Apr 5, 2013)

If other people are not around, I carry open. If there are people, I carry concealed. This is true in the woods or in the city.


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## 71Chevrolet (Nov 19, 2012)

Go2ndAmend said:


> If other people are not around, I carry open. If there are people, I carry concealed. This is true in the woods or in the city.


Same here


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I open carry where it's allowed.

I don't get this whole 1.5 seconds from 25 feet thing. When does the timer start? Does this assume I have already decided he/she is a threat and that I am going to shoot, or is it a "meeting engagement" where I am shooting as soon as I see someone?

I can't think of many situations where I would want to draw and fire in that amount of time except in rare combat encounters. I don't see where a LEO would need to do it either, except in rare and extreme cases. If someone is 25 feet away and the situation is escalating, most cops I know would draw at once in order to maintain control of the situation and stop it from going further, even if they didn't fire. If the suspect has a gun out, who is going to get within 25 feet of them anyway? I just don't get it.


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## mlc (Dec 27, 2012)

When I went through Firearms Training wit the local PD one of the drills that i was required to do was. From a surrender position (hands over my head) I had to draw and fire 6 rounds into 3 Targets @ 7 yds. 1 to head and 1 to chest of each target in 3 seconds. we ran this 5 times starting with 7 seconds and dropping 1 second each time.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

The law in Florida reads that if you are camping, or fishing, or in transit to to or from these activities, you are allowed to open carry


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## USPrepperSupply (Oct 15, 2013)

If you are carrying a .40 for protection against bears, I guess that is ok, as it will hurt less when he shoves it up your arse. (I'm a former NPS Park Ranger). Minimum .44 Magnum for bear, but a .454 or .480 ruger is a better choice if you can hit anything with it (I'm not big on the Ruger Alaskan with the snub barrel).


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> I open carry where it's allowed.
> 
> I don't get this whole 1.5 seconds from 25 feet thing. When does the timer start? Does this assume I have already decided he/she is a threat and that I am going to shoot, or is it a "meeting engagement" where I am shooting as soon as I see someone?
> 
> I can't think of many situations where I would want to draw and fire in that amount of time except in rare combat encounters. I don't see where a LEO would need to do it either, except in rare and extreme cases. If someone is 25 feet away and the situation is escalating, most cops I know would draw at once in order to maintain control of the situation and stop it from going further, even if they didn't fire. If the suspect has a gun out, who is going to get within 25 feet of them anyway? I just don't get it.


I always took the 1.5secx25ft was a graphic way to describe reaction time. I suppose one could use other means to describe what being behind the curve looks like. Yet this one seems to be the one that stuck.


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## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> I open carry where it's allowed.
> 
> I don't get this whole 1.5 seconds from 25 feet thing. When does the timer start? Does this assume I have already decided he/she is a threat and that I am going to shoot, or is it a "meeting engagement" where I am shooting as soon as I see someone?
> 
> I can't think of many situations where I would want to draw and fire in that amount of time except in rare combat encounters. I don't see where a LEO would need to do it either, except in rare and extreme cases. If someone is 25 feet away and the situation is escalating, most cops I know would draw at once in order to maintain control of the situation and stop it from going further, even if they didn't fire. If the suspect has a gun out, who is going to get within 25 feet of them anyway? I just don't get it.


The way it was explained to me is, if a friendly target turned hostile and charged you, 21ft would be the minimum amount of distance you would need to be to be able to draw and place a shot by the time they close the gap. Then again I was told 21ft not 25ft, either way that person is closing on you fast.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

PrepperLite said:


> The way it was explained to me is, if a friendly target turned hostile and charged you, 21ft would be the minimum amount of distance you would need to be to be able to draw and place a shot by the time they close the gap. Then again I was told 21ft not 25ft, either way that person is closing on you fast.


There really isn't any set distance or time but the courts needed to put it in terms of what "A reasonable man would assume." The real world and definitions from a courtroom are vastly different. Unfortunately for most people, reality is what they see on TV and shows like CSI have made my job very difficult in that people don't want just the facts, they want to be wowed with amazing scientific data they saw on TV.


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## BamaBoy101 (Dec 9, 2013)

man thats the truth....


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Open or CC depends on the law and reason . If in the woods and I feel I need protection why would I hide it.
If I am in a reasonably safe area why would I expose it and possibly cause some liberal pain a suffering at the sight of it .
As for bear don't go bear hunting alone or with a hand gun. As for killing a bear with a hand gun I am going 357 with the right round . Penetration you need to get deep to stop a bear. The bears that walk up my sons deck from time to time , leave on their own.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

It is funny how the liberals react to a firearm. When I was patrolling the border up in Minnesota, if I slung a M4 on my back and walked the trails along the MN/Canadian border my office would get all kinds of complaints but if I slung a shotgun, not a peep.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> It is funny how the liberals react to a firearm. When I was patrolling the border up in Minnesota, if I slung a M4 on my back and walked the trails along the MN/Canadian border my office would get all kinds of complaints but if I slung a shotgun, not a peep.


 It Iraq you could pull up 50 on top load and ready 8 soldiers armed with m4 203 and Saw 249. Not even get a reaction. People would walk right up to you.
Srap on a Hand gun and watch the fear. Ever wonder why you see soldiers with hand guns in Military in places like Iraq when it is Not a normal issue weapon. Hand guns normally some low risk guard duty, Some officers, 1SG unless he request a rifle, Most medics aircraft crews. Machine gunner has one as a back up. Pretty much that is it. Real world not TV or dress up pictures for home.
In Iraq when the government sent their people around to instill fear in the people they used hand guns they would just shoot a few in the head after beating them for awhile. The people learned handgun meant someone was going to die. 
For that reason side arms were added to our authorized issue when requested.
Perception can be far worst than reality .


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

In Europe many policemen carry SMG's yet if you proposed arming European police with shotguns people became outraged about "Police hunting people like hares."


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I carry open. So does my fiance. Not that there is anyone here to see it. We do have bear but mostly mountain lion are the ones to worry about here. I carry a colt 1911 in .45 and she carries the Sig P220 in 45. I think she is lookin for a Sig 1911 now though. She likes mine and is a fan of Sig since that is what she learned with and used at the dept. she was at.
Out here is MAINLY open carry though. Not much need to hide it where there is nobody around. Although, this is what she is trying to figure to carry on her side now!


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

USPrepperSupply said:


> If you are carrying a .40 for protection against bears, I guess that is ok, as it will hurt less when he shoves it up your arse. (I'm a former NPS Park Ranger). Minimum .44 Magnum for bear, but a .454 or .480 ruger is a better choice if you can hit anything with it (I'm not big on the Ruger Alaskan with the snub barrel).


Buffalo Boar makes 255 grain +p hardcast for .45 that will take care of bear. It will take care of car doors and walls too. 
Since this thread is up, how about we discuss good carry rigs for wilderness carry? ( and by wilderness I mean the real wilderness, not the dark areas of the urban "wilderness" )


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Arizona Infidel said:


> Buffalo Boar makes 255 grain +p hardcast for .45 that will take care of bear. It will take care of car doors and walls too.
> Since this thread is up, how about we discuss good carry rigs for wilderness carry? ( and by wilderness I mean the real wilderness, not the dark areas of the urban "wilderness" )


I carry an old hog's leg, .44 magnum Ruger Super Blackhawk.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Rig, not gun. In other words, what HOLSTER is good for the wilderness.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I have a number of holsters for my 357s but the one I use the most is a shoulder rig. My carry gun has a six inch barrel and I had to make a pancake holster because everyone I spoke to said you couldn't carry a six inch revolver in a pancake holster. YES, you can and it is a quick draw if you are standing or kneeling but it is nearly impossible to get the gun out of a hip holster when you are sitting, on you back, or laying face down. Hip holsters are practically useless in a car - you don't have ready access to your gun. (I learned that during a "felony stop" class that I participated in with the County Sheriffs department. (I am not, nor have I ever been in law enforcement) When the trainees pulled up behind us in their car (we were the "felons") we both jumped out and yelled "bang, bang, your dead" while they were trying to get to their guns still in the car. I practice drawing my gun in the worst possible positions and the shoulder rig gives me almost universal access - even with a backpack on. The worst holster I own is a "military" flap over holster. It keeps the gun so secure that I would have difficulty stopping a man running from 50 yards away. (OK, a slight exaggeration) The pancake holster is great as long as I can be standing all the time but in any other position it is slower to get at.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

O.k. I am not worried about in the car or any of that. I'm trying to get an idea of what everyone thinks would be the best WILDERNESS carry holster. Do you think a shoulder rig is the most convenient holster to wear out in the woods? It seams that would be burdensome to wear while chopping wood or anything else you would do camping.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Arizona Infidel said:


> O.k. I am not worried about in the car or any of that. I'm trying to get an idea of what everyone thinks would be the best WILDERNESS carry holster. Do you think a shoulder rig is the most convenient holster to wear out in the woods? It seams that would be burdensome to wear while chopping wood or anything else you would do camping.


I like the bandoleer style holster that goes across the chest.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Does that secure to the belt also?


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Arizona Infidel said:


> Does that secure to the belt also?


yes you have that option, I tend to carry the holster higher up on my chest without the belt loop


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

Interesting option


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I have always liked a leather belt holster. Make sure you have a wide stiff belt to. In the past few years I have become fond of the kydex holsters and find myself carrying one more and more ofte






n..


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

That's an interesting belt. Where did you get it? I've used Kydex holsters. They are good. What do you think about the open bottom though? Also, is the ride hight of the holster a hindrance while doing physical chores? Ie. chopping wood, digging holes?


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

In order for a holster to be any good to you you have to be able to access your gun from any position. In the woods, hiking with a pack on, sitting around the campfire, fishing, chopping wood, or setting traps. Practice drawing the gun from some typical positions and then wear it while running, climbing and falling - it has to remain secure. There is no holster I have found or dreamed up that is better under any conditions than a shoulder rig.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

I don't understand how the shoulder rig would work while wearing a pack. Seams like it would get a bit crowded under your arms.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I carry either a compact .38 or a Kahr CW9 9mm on my walks every day. When I go hunting I carry a 1911 .45 in addition to my hunting weapon. Bad stuff happens on hikes and walks. There is always potential for criminal activity. There are also alot of emotionally disturbed people (more than you may think) who may become violent or just suddenly snap. You may encounter an animal that has been hit by a car and suffering or a vicious dog in need of a dirt nap. During hunting season you may run into poachers or pot cultivation operations. You may suddenly find yourself in the middle of a domestic violence situation or you may be robbed. You may discover stolen property while scouting for deer or find yourself feet away from a bear or rabid critter. Every one of the above have happened to me at one point or another on my walks, hikes or hunts. I'm as prepared as I can be and when I did have to pull my weapon it was always a surprise. I'm glad I carry.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Arizona Infidel said:


> I don't understand how the shoulder rig would work while wearing a pack. Seams like it would get a bit crowded under your arms.


The pack straps don't even touch the holster. The holster sits "outside" the pack straps. Now, try to get at a pancake or hip holster with a pack on....


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