# A way to have "cash like currency" with you that is not suspicious



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

One of the universal cash currencies of this world is Gold. Not Fools Gold of course, (only time I have seen that is in like Disney land umm err or universal studios in California for the life of me I cannot remember which one it was, but there was a fake mine where you could sift for Gold, (fools gold ) and they gave ya this fake nugget if you found squat.

A way to carry money that doesn't look like money so ya like are hiding what you got, is to buy a gold coin and paint it like black to kind of look like a Poker Chip, and keep it on you. Someone trying to rob ya wouldn't think twice about taking it from ya as they don't want something useless and not visually appealing. A little lacquer thinner and Boom There She Is.

If they ask to see what is in your pocket, just 'accidently' drop it and say it is a chip that u kept for memory's sake in a poker game u won.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

In what scenario would you need to use an entire gold goin and also have access to a solvent to remove the faux finish and also prove authenticity to the recipient?
I've never understood the concept of using precious metals as currency in modern times. It's heavy, the value often makes it impractical for most purchases, and it would only work in "good faith" trades since it would be difficult to verify.

Help me out. What real world scenario would play out where this would be a practical thing to have?
Not bait. Legitimately curious, but openly pessimistic...


----------



## Beechnut (Sep 6, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> In what scenario would you need to use an entire gold goin and also have access to a solvent to remove the faux finish and also prove authenticity to the recipient?
> I've never understood the concept of using precious metals as currency in modern times. It's heavy, the value often makes it impractical for most purchases, and it would only work in "good faith" trades since it would be difficult to verify.
> 
> Help me out. What real world scenario would play out where this would be a practical thing to have?
> Not bait. Legitimately curious, but openly pessimistic...


Valid points. I do like the idea of goldbacks, but it's pretty hard to justify them with the premium being charged so I've only bought a few that were given as gifts.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I agree with @Kauboy. And frankly so does Selco. In his blog, he details what happened during the Balkan wars. He does talk about gold and precious metals. During the turmoil, some had gold, gold watches, gold chains, etc. A few would trade for those but at nowhere near its value. Those who did take it became wealthy after the war. For the most part though, these are barter times. People barter for what they need and money, precious metals and such are about useless. With gold, you will pay an exorbitant amount for small items, if you find someone willing to take it.

Before, or as the stuff is starting, cash will be king. Folks will believe in paper money until it's useless and no longer accepted at banks. Gold and silver are for the recovery.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against either gold or silver. I know some though that are counting on that to get them through. That's very unlikely to happen.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

The concept came from my belated grandfather who's family migrated from Russia during a bad time. He told me that I should always carry a gold coin when I travel, while the painting it black was just a way to hide it's color. One gold Krugerrand is: *$1,887.20, *and it does not need papers to prove what it is. With regard to weight a Krugerrand weighs *1.09 troy ounces* while *$1,887.20* in denominations :18 * $100 bills, 4 * $20 bills. 7 * $1 bills, 2 dimes weigh 1.18 oz so the weight is roughly the same if not a tad lighter/

If banks were closed down and shops, well cash wouldn't have as much value compared to barter items, but if one it traveling or evacuation to another country, and the American Dollar falls, gold has always retained it's value across the world. 



Kauboy said:


> In what scenario would you need to use an entire gold goin and also have access to a solvent to remove the faux finish and also prove authenticity to the recipient?


$1,887.20 is not a lot of money in my opinion, although it may be to others. Situation could be something as simple as having your Truck or SUV break down while traveling in a different state. Between towing, auto repair costs, lodging (while you wait for vehicle to be fixed & all parts delivered) & food, well in this day and age that coin would be used up just from the above combined costs.

You may not be aware, but investing in gold has been a solid investment for decades as it's price adjusts with inflation to a degree.

Again in a real global wide SHTF, bartering would be more feasible, but pre SHTF, it is the one currency that you could turn to cash in practically any country at the airport or their countries bank. For awhile, I did a lot of traveling overseas and had the coin with me, just incase. Almost used it too in Zurich Switzerland as I quickly found out my credit card was not accepted in that country, other then in a bank (which I did not know the 1st 2 days there which is why I still have that coin lol)

The real point of it though was compared to a wad of cash ~ $1,887, someone robbing ya would surely steal your cash but wouldn't bother with a black poker chip like coin. One of the most common problems traveling overseas was getting pick pocketed or robbed.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Spenser said:


> The concept came from my belated grandfather who's family migrated from Russia during a bad time. He told me that I should always carry a gold coin when I travel, while the painting it black was just a way to hide it's color. One gold Krugerrand is: *$1,887.20, *and it does not need papers to prove what it is. With regard to weight a Krugerrand weighs *1.09 troy ounces* while *$1,887.20* in denominations :18 * $100 bills, 4 * $20 bills. 7 * $1 bills, 2 dimes weigh 1.18 oz so the weight is roughly the same if not a tad lighter/
> 
> If banks were closed down and shops, well cash wouldn't have as much value compared to barter items, but if one it traveling or evacuation to another country, and the American Dollar falls, gold has always retained it's value across the world.
> 
> ...


$1887.20 may not be a lot of money to you, but for many this IS a lot of money. How many of the average folks know the current value of gold?

I don't disagree with the rest of your assessment on gold.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

The scenario of being "robbed," is greatly mitigated by using precautions on where/when you travel, situational awareness, and being armed. These are all probably better than attempting to disguise gold coins with shoe polish or whatever.

As or "bartering," that may become a viable future manner of trade. However, bartering is extremely difficult and frankly MOST people are not interested and don't understand it. I try to barter, almost daily, a variety of useful things, including silver. Nobody wants it, and the few (1%) who want it want to give me far below market value because they want to flip it for cash (now or later). And this is during ideal times when stores are open and cash is flowing.

I have bad news. If the banks are closed, the dollar is devalued or replaced or whatever, food is scarce, mortgages are due, people are out of work or still working for devalued cash, and people have economic crisis, I doubt anyone wants your gold or silver. They want real world useful things - food, medicine, guns/ammunition for defending what they have, seeds, livestock, fuel, oil, etc. 

There's also the problem with frauds/forgeries: People plating copper or lead with gold or silver, for instance. How can the average person on a barter system, verify your gold is in fact gold? Few will be able or interested in doing this.

I barely want PMs today and I won't pay a premium for them. I might take them at a great discount. I cannot see my demand INCREASING in a SHTF world. It will decrease. I think I'm fairly normal.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

As a follow up, if you want serious viable trade items in a true SHTF environment, of war, economic collapse, people reduced to bartering, etc. envisioned by many preppers: Guns, ammunition, tools, reloading components, lead, food, food production, water filters, quality shoes/boots, quality clothing, services (mechanical, medical, tailoring/seamstress, etc.). 
I think ammunition is extremely useful, because it's very affordable now and extremely easy to store and transport, lasts indefinitely, and is easily divisible (I'll give you 12 bullets for a dozen eggs; I'll give you a box of bullets to re-sole my boots; I'll trade you 1000 bullets for that cow; etc.).

Testing this theory: A box of bullets or 6 dozen eggs or 1 oz. of silver in the US is probably about equivalent. Look at Ukraine right now. What order of priority do you think the average person would place these? I'd bet silver is last, unless they are actively fleeing with as much assets as possible.

If your plan is to flee an area, then PMs may be important for moving wealth. But then again, if you predict a need to flee in the coming 20 years, then it's better to leave now and be 20 years early, than 6 months too late.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

inceptor said:


> $1887.20 may not be a lot of money to you, but for many this IS a lot of money. How many of the average folks know the current value of gold?
> 
> I don't disagree with the rest of your assessment on gold.


I live in the 2nd most expensive state to live in in the USA, so I guess it is relative... & I would like to add, it was not intended to be boasting..

_As a follow up, if you want serious viable trade items in a true SHTF environment, of war, economic collapse, people reduced to bartering, MrLemonade said_

For me personally, my bartering would be doing services vs trading possessions. Small & large appliance repair, electronic repair, computer repair, auto, bicycle, mechanical, home plumbing & electrical. I have also been trained in soldering, several different types of welding, cutting down trees, carpentry, fencing, roofing, concrete, brick layer, metal shop, hair cutting, sewing, hydroponic systems, water filtration... heck gonna stop there as the list isn't even close to being done.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Gee $1900 bucks is over 2 months of living expense for us. Lights, housing, gas and food. Maybe a little longer being I can get really cheap on the food.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Spenser said:


> $1,887.20 is not a lot of money in my opinion, although it may be to others. Situation could be something as simple as having your Truck or SUV break down while traveling in a different state. Between towing, auto repair costs, lodging (while you wait for vehicle to be fixed & all parts delivered) & food, well in this day and age that coin would be used up just from the above combined costs.


How would you split one coin's value across all of these expense?
How would an average mechanic or tow truck driver know what a Krugerrand is? Authenticating would be difficult, even with documentation. Any good ol' boy around here would look at you with a raised eyebrow, realizing they can't use that shiny coin for anything, and ask what else ya got.
With my lead pot and some nice paint, I can make a bunch of those.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I don't think you've given this thought to the actual practical uses of it. How you hope it works won't be how it works. For someone who would take it, you'd be paying double or triple for whatever you traded.

I'm well aware of how precious metals fluctuate, and how they can be an excellent investment to get through hard times. But for trading during SHTF, it won't work out in the real trade. We had a member a while back that had real insights into how the USSR functioned during the collapse. Nobody wanted precious metals. They wanted food, vodka, clothing, fuel, and toilet paper.

Your gold coin _could_ be useful, but the timing of he event would have to be just right. Soon enough that someone was willing to take the risk, but late enough that other forms of payment are largely useless and nobody is valuing rice and beans higher than shiny metal yet.
The only real situation I could imagine seeing this used in would be during good times when you just need the emergency currency, not bad times when the world is already falling apart.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

Yeah, I read all about PMs and belief they will hold value and be in high demand in SHTF or a transition currency. I don't see that as reality. In the best of times, there's so much PM manipulation and a VIG on PMs and only people with a lot of resources are buying/manipulating these markets. 

For me, 12 oz. of gold would represent my annual necessary living expenses for pure survival. That's mortgage, fuel, electric, food, water, trash, vehicle maintenance, hygiene, etc. bare necessities. I can say for certain I'd rather have 1 year of bare survival necessities, than 12 oz. of pretty metal. 

As for the average prepper, I would tell them to cover ALL basis first before PMs. Pay off all debts, mortgage, have a nice secure defendable homestead in a free state, a complex layered security system, lots of useful land (farmable, water, well for water supply, livestock, garden, timber for heat, cooking source, and building, etc.), guns, ammunition to last generations, tools, many vehicles of various sorts with backup parts for said vehicles (alternators, batteries, tires, lubricants, spark plugs, hoses, etc.), oil, fuel for at least a year, backup sources of fuel (propane, NG, gasoline, diesel), more tools, food production, alcohol production, medicines for years, an infirmary stocked with medical supplies, physical books on all subjects, solar power, wood stove(s), drones with cameras to patrol property, probably hired help for security, having a medical person on staff, etc. 

Then after that $5,000,000 - $10 million investment, would possibly be a consideration to buy some PMs for storage. The first five million would be in the above paragraph.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

Kauboy said:


> I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I don't think you've given this thought to the actual practical uses of it. How you hope it works won't be how it works. For someone who would take it, you'd be paying double or triple for whatever you traded.


Kauboy, I can understand someone from your neck of the woods not understanding the value of this hidden treasure and in addition, not everything I post here is referring to SHTF scenarios. Fact is, I have already used precious metal to get me out of trouble several times, and I know where to go to vendor it. Realize I have lived in over 30+ places in 5 states, traveled to 1/5 of the USA, 3 countries in Europe and Mexico. And not to toot my own horn, but I was taking 6 college level courses while I was still in High School, College was for Engineering and advanced mathematics and Physics, and on top of that I have gone to 3 different occupational centers on top of the knowledge of working with my hands.

I have zero debt, no mortgage, no truck payments, zero owed on credit cards and still in my 40's. 



Kauboy said:


> But for trading during SHTF, it won't work out in the real trade.



I think you missed one of my sections in post

_As a follow up, if you want serious viable trade items in a true SHTF environment, of war, economic collapse, people reduced to bartering, MrLemonade said_

For me personally, my bartering would be doing services vs trading possessions. Small & large appliance repair, electronic repair, computer repair, auto, bicycle, mechanical, home plumbing & electrical. I have also been trained in soldering, several different types of welding, cutting down trees, carpentry, fencing, roofing, concrete, brick layer, metal shop, hair cutting, sewing, hydroponic systems, water filtration... heck gonna stop there as the list isn't even close to being done.

In a real SHTF scenario, my skills pays the bills.


----------



## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

If the world is falling apart, I question the availability of a tow truck, a garage that is open and has ability to order parts, all of that.

Now if one has to cross a border or a road block, or is confronted by a gang, that gold coin may come in handy.

A local liquor store closed and had everything marked WAY down. I rarely drink but bought up a bunch, including dozens of the small airline bottles. Will trade for food or ???


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

again this was *NOT *a SHFT this was just for common day ie atm right now today tomorrow not SHTF


----------



## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Spenser said:


> again this was *NOT *a SHFT this was just for common day ie atm right now today tomorrow not SHTF


I'm sorry. My mistake.

All the same, I will just carry one credit card and some cash. Hopefully, if a robber confronts me, he will just ask what's in my pockets and not use physical force. Any PM's I may have would stay locked up somewhere, not on my person. To each his own and best wishes to ya.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Spenser said:


> Kauboy, I can understand someone from your neck of the woods not understanding the value of this hidden treasure and in addition, not everything I post here is referring to SHTF scenarios. Fact is, I have already used precious metal to get me out of trouble several times, and I know where to go to vendor it. Realize I have lived in over 30+ places in 5 states, traveled to 1/5 of the USA, 3 countries in Europe and Mexico. And not to toot my own horn, but I was taking 6 college level courses while I was still in High School, College was for Engineering and advanced mathematics and Physics, and on top of that I have gone to 3 different occupational centers on top of the knowledge of working with my hands.


It's good that you live in such an affluent society that even your tow truck drivers accept gold coins.
For most of the rest of us, you've described a fantasy land.

You can boast about any and all accomplishments you want, but when something doesn't pass the common sense test, it really doesn't matter.
When someone prefaces a sentence with something to the effect of "I don't wanna brag... but", and proceeds to spill their life story of what they consider grand accomplishments... I then know enough about who that person is and what kind of person they are.
Carry your coin.
When you get a crossways look from the person you try to give it to in the random place you happen to be, you'll remember this exchange.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> It's good that you live in such an affluent society that even your tow truck drivers accept gold coins.
> For most of the rest of us, you've described a fantasy land.
> 
> You can boast about any and all accomplishments you want, but when something doesn't pass the common sense test, it really doesn't matter.
> ...


Evidently you miss the good part.



Spenser said:


> Kauboy, I can understand someone from your neck of the woods not understanding the value of this hidden treasure


Evidently here in Texas, being a poor state and not very educated, we can possibly comprehend what he's talking about.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

Sometimes it is a simple misunderstanding of a word or phrase or what the person is referring to. I have lived in Texas, Houston, Austin & Dallas for the record.

I had never at any point inferred that a Auto repair guy would accept a gold coin for payment. I said specifically that *" I know where to vendor a gold coin" * of which that assumption that I was going to hand over a gold coin to a repair guy lead some to think I live in some sort of a fantasy land.



Kauboy said:


> I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I don't think you've given this thought to the actual practical uses of it. How you hope it works won't be how it works. For someone who would take it, you'd be paying double or triple for whatever you traded.





Kauboy said:


> You can boast about any and all accomplishments you want, but when something doesn't pass the common sense test, it really doesn't matter.



1) Again you had assumed I was talking about this during SHTF. I was not.
2)You assumed that I have not already used gold as currency, which I have on multiple occasions.
3) Saying that I have not thought this through is why I mentioned my background, thinking is what I get paid for, as my line of work is solving problems.
4) The fact that this concept of using gold as a form of currency bewildered you, lead me to believe that we run in different circles.

In my family, unless you have a degree or training in a particular subject, they don't want to hear an opinion. For that reason, out of habit, I tried to explain that I am educated, and tried to give a brief background of myself. This is something I have had to do many times with family members as they needed to have proof that one knows what they are talking about.



inceptor said:


> Evidently here in Texas, being a poor state and not very educated, we can possibly comprehend what he's talking about.


Was that really necessary? I find some people just love to fight or argue, and pick a fight for the heck of it. I am not inferring this statement of yours fits this, as I cannot assume I know your intent.

Now for this next portion I am referring to SHTF. To think that if the SHTF that your bugging out will be relocating to some other area in the USA would be a mistake. It may very well be depending on where one lives, that they would have to bug out North to Canada or south to Mexico or South America. If the American dollar falls, and only America is undergoing the SHTF, what currency do you think would be valuable to another country that does not want US currency under this scenario? Gold, Platinum, Silver...


This began as a way to inform some of other means of holding currency on them in a non SHTF scenario, & with everyone assuming that this is Only for a SHTF, these comments were issued. I was merely trying to add some of my own life experience here, just trying to be helpful. Try to get to know me, I am actually a decent person that tries to help people.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Spenser said:


> Was that really necessary? I find some people just love to fight or argue, and pick a fight for the heck of it. I am not inferring this statement of yours fits this, as I cannot assume I know your intent.


Picking a fight? No, actually I found it humorous. I was surprised that @Kauboy didn't pick up on it.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

again, wasn't inferring that, just survival sites tend to have some banter going on.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Spenser said:


> survival sites tend to have some banter going on.


You can find that here. It's rare that the banter gets heated. Most times it stays civil.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

good, I actually like the banter... makes life interesting


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Spenser said:


> I had never at any point inferred that a Auto repair guy would accept a gold coin for payment.


Didn't you though...


Spenser said:


> Situation could be something as simple as having your Truck or SUV break down while traveling in a different state. Between towing, auto repair costs, lodging (while you wait for vehicle to be fixed & all parts delivered) & food, well in this day and age that coin would be used up just from the above combined costs.


Thinking you'll be able to "vendor" that coin in Podunk, USA when you actually need that tow is pure speculation, verging on fantastical.

It is a logical fallacy to accept that one's credentials mean their opinion or idea is valid by default.
"An appeal to authority", as it's called.
If your family only listens to such people, they're missing out on a world of true wisdom.
Some of the wisest people you'll ever meet didn't finish high school.
You shouldn't feel the need to post credentials here. If your ideas make reasonable sense, they'll be accepted.if they don't, they won't. Degrees don't change this.
Expect your ideas to be challenged. It's the only way we all separate the wheat from the chaff.
Also, be careful what you assume others are thinking or know.  

That seems like a proper welcome. We'll see how long you can suffer our presence. Seen a few like you pass through. One way or another, their ego generally determines how long they stick around.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

Kauboy said:


> That seems like a proper welcome. We'll see how long you can suffer our presence. Seen a few like you pass through. One way or another, their ego generally determines how long they stick around.


All I can say to that is that my own family, friends, teachers, and colleagues have said " I truly have never met a person like you" I have no idea if that is a compliment or a criticism, but it just is.

For the most part, being an Army brat, I simple pass through in general in life.

For me to leave this site would have nothing to do about my ego, it would on the other hand be dependent on my morals. If I found that this site is based on doing harm to an individual or this country, I would not even hesitate to disavow this site.

I took my pledge seriously when I spoke these words in the military * I Spenser* *do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic*; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

Spenser said:


> One of the universal cash currencies of this world is Gold. Not Fools Gold of course, (only time I have seen that is in like Disney land umm err or universal studios in California for the life of me I cannot remember which one it was, but there was a fake mine where you could sift for Gold, (fools gold ) and they gave ya this fake nugget if you found squat.
> 
> A way to carry money that doesn't look like money so ya like are hiding what you got, is to buy a gold coin and paint it like black to kind of look like a Poker Chip, and keep it on you. Someone trying to rob ya wouldn't think twice about taking it from ya as they don't want something useless and not visually appealing. A little lacquer thinner and Boom There She Is.
> 
> If they ask to see what is in your pocket, just 'accidently' drop it and say it is a chip that u kept for memory's sake in a poker game u won.



Interesting. I do the same but I have no reason to paint it. I just carry a 1911. When I travel (always by vehicle, I never fly), I always carry a gold coin or two. Also a few silver coins. They take up little to no room and are very easy to stash. Not to be arrogant or demeaning but when I see people knocking the ownership of precious metals, it is usually for obvious reasons. They can't afford them and / or don't understand their true function. Gold and silver are money and always have been for thousand of years. PM's are not currency. Currency is that worthless paper you are holding in your wallet / purse. I guarantee you when the SHTF, that paper currency will be worthless. If you ask 100 people on the street what backs a $100 bill, 99% will say gold. The only thing backing it, is the public’s faith in it, which is quickly waning. Nixon took us off the gold standard in 1971. Why do you think we are 30 trillion dollars in debt, headed for 40 trillion?

Gold is not for buying eggs at the local store. It is for the preservation of wealth. That is what gold is for. It is also not for investment purposes. Silver is for smaller purchases. Re: 90% silver dimes, quarters, etc. If you are offering someone a turn of the century US silver dollar for a dozen eggs and they don’t know what it is, you probably need to move on down the road. Bring it to me. I will give you two dozen eggs. Shelf life of eggs. 2 to 3 weeks. Shelf life of a silver dollar. Infinite. That said, you shouldn't be purchasing PM's until you are totally prepped. After you have all the bullets, beans, and Bandaids you can ever use, then you should consider putting back some PM's. When / if the system collapses, you will have plenty of bartering items and when it recovers, you will have your wealth.

There are those that think the price of gold / silver is the spot price that the traders says it is for the day (Kitco). That is not the price of gold / silver. The price is whatever it cost you to purchase it. Premium included. That is it's true cost. Not what some Bankster says it is worth. Why do you think they are buying so much of it as of late and why they are spending so much time manipulating it? They know what is coming. Paper gold (ETF’s) is just that. Paper. IMHO, this will end as soon as the US Dollar looses it's position as the worlds reserve currency and we are much closer to that than you think.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

MGNick said:


> Interesting. I do the same but I have no reason to paint it. I just carry a 1911. When I travel (always by vehicle, I never fly), I always carry a gold coin or two. Also a few silver coins. They take up little to no room and are very easy to stash. Not to be arrogant or demeaning but when I see people knocking the ownership of precious metals, it is usually for obvious reasons. They can't afford them and / or don't understand their true function. Gold and silver are money and always have been for thousand of years. PM's are not currency. Currency is that worthless paper you are holding in your wallet / purse. I guarantee you when the SHTF, that paper currency will be worthless. If you ask 100 people on the street what backs a $100 bill, 99% will say gold. The only thing backing it, is the public’s faith in it, which is quickly waning. Nixon took us off the gold standard in 1971. Why do you think we are 30 trillion dollars in debt, headed for 40 trillion?
> 
> Gold is not for buying eggs at the local store. It is for the preservation of wealth. That is what gold is for. It is also not for investment purposes. Silver is for smaller purchases. Re: 90% silver dimes, quarters, etc. If you are offering someone a turn of the century US silver dollar for a dozen eggs and they don’t know what it is, you probably need to move on down the road. Bring it to me. I will give you two dozen eggs. Shelf life of eggs. 2 to 3 weeks. Shelf life of a silver dollar. Infinite. That said, you shouldn't be purchasing PM's until you are totally prepped. After you have all the bullets, beans, and Bandaids you can ever use, then you should consider putting back some PM's. When / if the system collapses, you will have plenty of bartering items and when it recovers, you will have your wealth.
> 
> There are those that think the price of gold / silver is the spot price that the traders says it is for the day (Kitco). That is not the price of gold / silver. The price is whatever it cost you to purchase it. Premium included. That is it's true cost. Not what some Bankster says it is worth. Why do you think they are buying so much of it as of late and why they are spending so much time manipulating it? They know what is coming. Paper gold (ETF’s) is just that. Paper. IMHO, this will end as soon as the US Dollar looses it's position as the worlds reserve currency and we are much closer to that than you think.


Is this a serious post?
You travel with a gold coin and silver coins? LOL. I guess you are a multi-millionaire with a huge secured food/water producing estate on tens of acres of land. 

$2000 paper cash takes up less space/weight and everyone will instantly accept it. Try getting a taxi with silver coins? Try renting a hotel room with silver coins? You'd be tossed out on your ***. How would anyone take you seriously, not think you're a scam artist, or be able to make change for PMs?

I really just laugh at people who think that everyone wants their PMs. Almost nobody wants them in lieu of cash, nor can identify them or has any idea of their value or legitimacy. 

Where you are correct, nobody should be investing in PMs until the first $1-5 million is into homestead, food, water, security, tools, etc.


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

MrLemonade said:


> Is this a serious post?
> You travel with a gold coin and silver coins? LOL. I guess you are a multi-millionaire with a huge secured food/water producing estate on tens of acres of land.
> 
> $2000 paper cash takes up less space/weight and everyone will instantly accept it. Try getting a taxi with silver coins? Try renting a hotel room with silver coins? You'd be tossed out on your ***. How would anyone take you seriously, not think you're a scam artist, or be able to make change for PMs?
> ...


You missed my point. I didn't say that I traveled without cash. I carry that as well. I also carry plastic. You are basing your opinion on the fact that paper currency will still have value if the SHTF. Basing it it on a stable monetary system always being in place, that the bank doors are all open and the electricity is flowing. You have been "programmed" to think that printed US paper currency will always have value. It suspect it will not. I was basing my comments on what would happen if the financial system (US Dollar) were to crash. Right now, as we are exchanging emails, Russia, China, Iran, and others are hard at work trying to replace the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. Sooner or later, they will succeed. They are not trying to replace it with good faith. They are trying to replace it with a gold backed currency. I wonder why they would pick gold and not your good faith? If that happens, you will be using that US paper currency for something else. So far as exchanging PM's for paper currency today, I can accomplished that in a 60 second phone call.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

MGNick said:


> You missed my point. I didn't say that I traveled without cash. I carry that as well. I also carry plastic. You are basing your opinion on the fact that paper currency will still have value if the SHTF. Basing it it on a stable monetary system always being in place, that the bank doors are all open and the electricity is flowing. You have been "programmed" to think that printed US paper currency will always have value. It suspect it will not. I was basing my comments on what would happen if the financial system (US Dollar) were to crash. Right now, as we are exchanging emails, Russia, China, Iran, and others are hard at work trying to replace the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. Sooner or later, they will succeed. They are not trying to replace it with good faith. They are trying to replace it with a gold backed currency. I wonder why they would pick gold and not your good faith? If that happens, you will be using that US paper currency for something else. So far as exchanging PM's for paper currency today, I can accomplished that in a 60 second phone call.


@Spenser was very clear to state that he does not carry gold for SHTF scenarios. He carries for personal emergencies. We may have differing opinions on how useful that may end up being, but that's his reason.
You won't be trading the gold in your pocket for much of anything when people need bare essentials. Paper money will still be traded, for no other reason than people will want to keep a sense of normalcy. It won't have any actual value, just as it doesn't now, but it will still be traded because everyone will still have it as a common trade medium. Expect prices to skyrocket, however.
Your gold won't be worth much to someone who needs to fill their kid's bellies. And how are you going to convince anyone that it's real?
Yes, gold has stood the test of time, but that's only in times when society was in good shape. When times are bad, nobody wants shiny rocks. They want textiles, food, water, fuel, and other essentials. For someone to take your gold in exchange for anything, they would need to expect that they will be able to turn around and use it for something else. Or you'll just be giving it to a tycoon who's set for life and willing to gather more wealth for when good times return.
Either way, the odds of finding someone who will trade for shiny yellow metal is relatively low when day to day survival is top of mind.

Russia and China are moving to a gold backed currency because they want to transfer large amounts of wealth which both parties can agree on based on world supply and demand. It's relatively stable and durable.
Governments operating on million/billion dollar budgets need a means to back up their trades, and gold has been decided to fit the bill. But it only works during times of relative prosperity.

PMs are good for one thing. Wealth transfer.
They don't degrade much and are considered a means to hold a vast quantity of wealth in a small size. You buy PMs when times are good or bad, but you only sell when times are good. Any other time, and you're trying to give away something most people don't need and can't use. It is a means to move your wealth from one period of good times to another. Trading it away in between is plain and simple foolishness as you lose a considerable amount of value compared to what you bought/traded it for originally, and whoever ends up with it when the exchanges are back online will make bank. This won't be some farmer or blue collar handyman. It will be a Koch, Rockefeller, Gates, or the like.


----------



## robinlynn (5 mo ago)

Ahhh, the superiority of some people. I have traveled and I have traded coin. Welp, us peoples from up in da holler don't know no gold nuthin. Dang, you lucky we know we's people. Not everyone owns a scale anymore for you to shave off the correct amount for payment for a tow job. In my opinion we will be at a barter system if things go bad. Gold was valued due to its popularity for its beauty. Whatever is going to be valued highly will be whatever is needed at that time. Toilet paper was big in the states during covid. To which let me state that we are the most pompous narrowminded, spoiled population in the world and have no idea what it is like to want. I have had empty cupboards and still knew I was going to be okay. I have no idea what it would be like to feel like that and look around and EVERYONE was in the same situation.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

MGNick said:


> You missed my point. I didn't say that I traveled without cash. I carry that as well. I also carry plastic. You are basing your opinion on the fact that paper currency will still have value if the SHTF. Basing it it on a stable monetary system always being in place, that the bank doors are all open and the electricity is flowing. You have been "programmed" to think that printed US paper currency will always have value. It suspect it will not. I was basing my comments on what would happen if the financial system (US Dollar) were to crash. Right now, as we are exchanging emails, Russia, China, Iran, and others are hard at work trying to replace the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. Sooner or later, they will succeed. They are not trying to replace it with good faith. They are trying to replace it with a gold backed currency. I wonder why they would pick gold and not your good faith? If that happens, you will be using that US paper currency for something else. So far as exchanging PM's for paper currency today, I can accomplished that in a 60 second phone call.


If you're doing a lot of pointless traveling in this fantasy SHTF scenario, then you're taking significant unnecessary risks. Traveling is when people are most vulnerable. BTW, note that because of the petro-dollar and technology, people now can effortlessly travel the globe. Do you think you'll be going to the gas station to fill up the car for an interstate drive, if the dollar collapses? How is that oil being pumped, transported, refined, transported again, into tanks, and who/how are people buying it, and why are people traveling far? These fairy tale notions are not well-developed. 
"Oh, yeah, I'm going to just keep flying and driving safely after the world currency collapses, and trade hotel stays with silver coins." Do you see how much nonsense that comes across?

If you believe as you say you do, NOW is the time/opportunity to build a fortress stocked for decades worth of supplies and self sufficiency to avoid having to travel with gold and silver coins. 

As Kauboy wrote, and I agree, large governments hoard/trade in PMs as a store of wealth. I will note two additional points. First, this isn't their money, it's the people's money. They wisely put it in a host of necessary things, because what else are they going to do with (largely) free/stolen resources? Secondly, governments also hoard other things for continuity - military, arms, food, land, oil, fuel, bunkers, and so forth. I bet if you organized these into priorities, PMs would be low on the list for any government. 

This is a serious question, do you have a $1-5 million dollar defendable fortress, land, and supplies to be self sufficient and have decades of supplies, water, food growth and processing, tools, equipment, medical supplies, books, and so forth? Well, do you?


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

Kauboy said:


> @Spenser was very clear to state that he does not carry gold for SHTF scenarios. He carries for personal emergencies. We may have differing opinions on how useful that may end up being, but that's his reason.
> You won't be trading the gold in your pocket for much of anything when people need bare essentials. Paper money will still be traded, for no other reason than people will want to keep a sense of normalcy. It won't have any actual value, just as it doesn't now, but it will still be traded because everyone will still have it as a common trade medium. Expect prices to skyrocket, however.
> Your gold won't be worth much to someone who needs to fill their kid's bellies. And how are you going to convince anyone that it's real?
> 
> ...


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

Kauboy said:


> @Spenser was very clear to state that he does not carry gold for SHTF scenarios. He carries for personal emergencies. We may have differing opinions on how useful that may end up being, but that's his reason.
> You won't be trading the gold in your pocket for much of anything when people need bare essentials. Paper money will still be traded, for no other reason than people will want to keep a sense of normalcy. It won't have any actual value, just as it doesn't now, but it will still be traded because everyone will still have it as a common trade medium. Expect prices to skyrocket, however.
> Your gold won't be worth much to someone who needs to fill their kid's bellies. And how are you going to convince anyone that it's real?
> Yes, gold has stood the test of time, but that's only in times when society was in good shape. When times are bad, nobody wants shiny rocks. They want textiles, food, water, fuel, and other essentials. For someone to take your gold in exchange for anything, they would need to expect that they will be able to turn around and use it for something else. Or you'll just be giving it to a tycoon who's set for life and willing to gather more wealth for when good times return.
> ...


SHTF, personal emergency. What's the difference? A need is a need in my book. I think that old farmer on the side of the road that has a 500 gallon tank of diesel would be savvy enough to be willing to trade a tank of fuel for a US Gold Eagle coin. He would know a real gold coin when he sees one. Your first thought would be that a gold eagle is worth $2000. Yes it currently is but in a SHTF scenario, a tank of diesel would also be worth $2000. Is it real? Counterfeit coins in the PM world are quite rare. Especially in the silver coin arena. Pretty much the same for gold coins as well. The fakes are more prevalent in large bars. You know, like the gold plated tungsten bars that came out of Fort Knox just recently.

What is interesting to me is that there seems to be two distinct thoughts in the world of PM's. Those who perceive gold and silver as a worthless relic. Those who still believe in it as something that has real value. I believe it has real value. If it is so worthless as some contend, why is it in such demand? Let's take a treasury (monster) box of silver coins. Just a few weeks ago, the US Mint and almost all of the PM's dealers were sold out. If you wanted one, you had to prepay and wait weeks for delivery. That tells me the demand is still there.

I also find it interesting that the bulk of the general public has been conditioned to believe that a piece of paper has more value than say a US minted silver dollar. It wasn't that long ago that silver and gold eagles were used as common currency in every day exchange for goods. It seems that there has been a great focus on steering people away from using that asset by the Fed's and the Banksters. In my book, there is a reason for that. PM's have value. What they want you to accept as value has none. Paper and digital numbers. Those would have value if they were backed with something but they are not. Re: If you backed a paper dollar with a 5 pound sack of beans, it would have valve. If you backed a digital numeral in an electronic bank account with say a barrel of oil, it would have value. Without that backing, it has no real intrinsic value in my book. For now. It only has a perceived value because the populous has not really questioned it's true value. That I believe will soon change as inflation continues unabated.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

MGNick said:


> Without that backing, it has no real intrinsic value in my book. For now. It only has a perceived value because the populous has not really questioned it's true value. That I believe will soon change as inflation continues unabated.


What is the "intrinsic" value of gold?


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

I am going to go on a tangent here, someone mentioned gold is only sought for due to its shinny brilliance in jewelry, but the fact is gold is used in common electronics. Cell phones contain about ~$2 worth of gold, Computers ~$12 worth of gold, Laptops ~$6 worth, etc. etc. It is used for its super conductivity. That is why you will see high end AV cables with gold plating.

I know no one asked, but I thought it was worth mentioning.


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

Kauboy said:


> What is the "intrinsic" value of gold?


That's a very interesting question. That would depend on who that question is presented to. I bet if you asked 20 people that question. You would get 20 different answers. As I stated above. PM's have value to some, are worthless to others. My viewpoint. One ounce of gold is worth 2000 bags of dried pinto beans today. It is also equivalent to the purchasing power of 2000 US paper one dollar bills today. It will not have that same value in the future. The point I was trying to get to earlier, regarding the replacement of the US Dollar as the worlds reserve currency is that you will see a major devaluation of that purchasing power as time wears on. The US has managed to control the price of world commodities for many decades because of that power. They just screwed up royally when they abused that power to blackmail Russia via the Swift System. A very ignorant and pompus card to play. That just telegraphed a message to the other countries using that system as to how vulnerable they are to the whims of the US Government. That is why you are seeing a major push to back their currencies with gold.

BTW. I frequent this board to learn and discover what others think about what is going on in our country today. I am appreciative of the opportunity to hear view points of others without being brow beat too much and called names (usually). As old as I seem to be getting. I still am learning.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

MGNick said:


> That's a very interesting question. That would depend on who that question is presented to. I bet if you asked 20 people that question. You would get 20 different answers. As I stated above. PM's have value to some, are worthless to others. My viewpoint. One ounce of gold is worth 2000 bags of dried pinto beans today. It is also equivalent to the purchasing power of 2000 US paper one dollar bills today. It will not have that same value in the future.


The question is interesting because it reveals the dichotomy that we often debate over on what is actually valuable.
Only when your primal needs are met does an exchange medium lacking true intrinsic value become viable. Until then, paper is paper, rocks are rocks, and neither one will keep you alive another day.
Gold, and other PMs, are durable and took physical labor to extract from the ground. That's their only _real_ value. (the cost of labor and production)
Their _apparent_ value was given based on their luster, malleability, and functional uses. When we really break it down, gold is only valuable because it's a shiny metal we can decorate people and places with. Other than that, it's still a "faith based" currency. There are electrical applications, but in a world lacking infrastructure, this benefit falls by the wayside.
So we must compare various means of exchange, and see what is practical. When the world collectively considers gold to have a high exchange rate with other mediums of exchange, it becomes less useful for day to day transactions. That's why we have such small denominations in all other forms of exchange medium. Nobody wants to carry nuggets and coins, along with a scale, to know how much of a given medium should be used in an exchange. Numerical denominations are far easier to trade with. This is why paper money, despite lacking real value, will still be the trade medium used during emergencies, and well into any SHTF scenario. This will still require that basic needs have already been met, or can quickly be met with an exchange of that paper to someone else. There won't be any such thing as "savings" with paper money in such times.
But as I mentioned and you stated, the apparent value of that paper will go down and prices will go up. The same will be true for gold as well. It's value is entirely based on what someone else is willing to trade for it. It very well could get you 2K bags of dried pinto beans today, but it may only get you 100 bags when times are tough and resources are scarce. Trading away gold during such a time would be a tremendous loss of wealth, and should only be a literal last resort. You paid a premium when you first acquired it, and are taking a significant hit if you end up trading it away for a few days of hot meals.
In my opinion, gold and other PMs are best used as a means to secure your excess wealth and carry it passed the downturn. Unless it's quite literally all you have left, and you're willing to take the loss just to survive, I'd keep it someplace safe and not expect to use it during the rough times we may see ahead.


----------



## Sherpa Bill (Dec 11, 2017)

"Gold is money everything else is credit", J.P. Morgan. You can say the same about silver. They are stores of value. When fiat currencies collapse they retain value. All fiat currencies end in collapse. Dollar based assets will evaporate in due time. If you have dollar based assets diversify now. Gold and silver are money and should be included along with your food, water, shelter, defense, energy, transportation, communication, association, etc. planning.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

Fans of PMs will often cite that historically PMs were highly valued and hold value. Perhaps. 

If a person could transport himself and say the equivalent amount of gold/silver, or a modern firearm and ammunition, back to any era in say pre-1800s history, which would be more valued? Clearly a modern semi-auto firearm and ammunition would give a person significant disparity of power and dominance over those without. 

Wars have never been fought and won with PMs. PMs are a spoil of war. Yes, refugees have escaped using PMs. But refugees use PMs to bribe their way past guards, because they don't have sufficient ARMs.

I'm firmly in the camp that this: 









Is far more divisible, useful, will be in far higher demand, and better in nearly every respect, than one of these:










It's a one-dimensional item. As is often said, you can't drink it, eat it, can't use it for any tool other than trade, can't hunt with it, can't grow it, it doesn't earn interest, it won't triple or quadruple or more in real value (although it doesn't really lose value either), you cannot defend yourself with it, and so forth.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

MrLemonade said:


> It's a one-dimensional item. As is often said, you can't drink it, eat it, can't use it for any tool other than trade, can't hunt with it, can't grow it, it doesn't earn interest, it won't triple or quadruple or more in real value (although it doesn't really lose value either), you cannot defend yourself with it, and so forth.


You have so many false statements that I do not know where to begin.
1)Let's start with the lack of Geometry schooling. a single dimensional item has no thickness, coins um have thickness.
2)Edible Gold Leaf is made from pure gold, so finely shaved gold has been added to Food & Drink in high end restaurants.
3)tools, gold is used in interface tools & equipment for it's conductivity
4) in 2000 gold was $279.29 now in 2022 $ 1,759.64 per troy oz.
5) Put a handful of gold coins in a sock and you can knock someone out with it, put a roll of gold coins in your hand it is the equivalent to a weighted glove.

oh and those wars paid with cash BACKED by Gold.
Whelp, back to the Drawing board MrLemonade


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

Spenser said:


> You have so many false statements that I do not know where to begin.
> 1)Let's start with the lack of Geometry schooling. a single dimensional item has no thickness, coins um have thickness.
> 2)Edible Gold Leaf is made from pure gold, so finely shaved gold has been added to Food & Drink in high end restaurants.
> 3)tools, gold is used in interface tools & equipment for it's conductivity
> ...


You're either trying to be a comedian, or really don't know what you're talking about, and it's so dumb as to not warrant a detailed rebuttal.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

If a fictional government had to forfeit all it's military and arms, food, energy, or gold, which do you think would go first? That's the least valuable.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Spenser said:


> You have so many false statements that I do not know where to begin.
> 1)Let's start with the lack of Geometry schooling. a single dimensional item has no thickness, coins um have thickness.
> 2)Edible Gold Leaf is made from pure gold, so finely shaved gold has been added to Food & Drink in high end restaurants.
> 3)tools, gold is used in interface tools & equipment for it's conductivity
> ...


Can't tell if trolling or just having fun with obvious sarcasm...

"Dimension" has a few definitions.
The one @MrLemonade is referring to is: "an aspect or feature of a situation, problem, or thing."
Careful to judge another's lack of schooling if you then plan to reveal a lack of your own.
Something being edible does not mean it is food. It just means you can digest it and it's not likely to kill you. There is no nutritional value in eating gold. As such, any that do eat gold are doing it strictly out of indulgent opulence, not sustenance.
It makes for a weak and shortly-lived tool that requires any stress. Being conductive does not make it a tool.
"Real" value and "apparent" value are being interchanged here, and should not be. The shiny rock has the same real value today as it did centuries ago.
Yes, it's heavy. That's about the sum of its real value. We finally found common ground!

In the end, and this is indisputable, the value of anything (gold included) will only be what someone else is willing to give for it. Period.
You may have given 2K U.S. dollars for what you have, but that means nothing to the person who is looking at it in a possible exchange.
They must weigh what it means to _them_ versus what the value of their potentially traded away good means to _them_.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

I see PM value much like the fickle art or car collector world (on a smaller scale), where intrinsic value is a small % of the money someone is paying, and fluctuates on largely fickle demand, which is only really occurring because of our period of decadence wealth (created by innovations like the wheel, timekeeping, combustion engine, oil, and firearms, etc. fyi, not PMs).

Bullion stays fairly constantly valuable. There is of course a "collector premium" on coins or jewelry that you'd be a fool to pay for IMO.

Another example.

It's 1850. You take ~1 months wages and divide it equally. Each item represents the same value, a little over 1 weeks wages. You put a $20 bill, a $20 single ounce of gold, and a new Colt 1836 revolver in a time capsule and bury it full protected from the elements. Someone opens it today. 

The $20 bill may be collectable and valuable, but the face value reflects about 1 hours low-skill wages.

The 1 oz. gold, still reflects about 1 weeks wages. So it held its value. 

The Colt revolver still works as a revolver. As a non-collector single action revolver, it reflects about $500-1000, so about 1/2 weeks wages. But the collector value, well that's a million dollars...

Bonus item, the land it's buried on. Could probably get an acre of land for nothing, but let's just assume 1 weeks salary. Today, depending on where, it would be worth at least a months salary and probably a years salary in some areas.

Which would you rather have? Me, I'd take the revolver or the land.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

Kauboy said:


> Can't tell if trolling or just having fun with obvious sarcasm...


Just trying to have fun and yes sarcasm is a thing with me.. The thread had taken on a life of its own, and thought a little humor was in order so I thought a Roast would be a good start.

Regarding edible vs digestible, there is a food product that is banned in a couple of countries, known as Shirataki pasta. 8 oz. bag ~ 15-35 calories depending on the brand is in essence not food just non soluble fiber. Dieters been grabbing this like Hot Cakes, as it expands when in the stomach giving one the "fullness" feeling. 

The down side, its not food, and this one gal I think in Australia but not positive, actually had to undergo surgery as it blocked her stomach from expanding and couldn't be digested.

You got to wonder how people come up with this stuff, and how people tried a food for the 1st time back in BC. The 1st person that ate an artichoke I bet wasn't a happy camper eating non edible parts of the flower. And what was that guy thinking that ate Rockefeller Oysters that 1st time.

Eating gold leaf, I just don't get it & who was the 1st rich guy that came up with that idea...


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Spenser said:


> You got to wonder how people come up with this stuff, and how people tried a food for the 1st time back in BC. The 1st person that ate an artichoke I bet wasn't a happy camper eating non edible parts of the flower. And what was that guy thinking that ate Rockefeller Oysters that 1st time.


----------



## MrLemonade (5 mo ago)

Spenser said:


> You got to wonder how people come up with this stuff, and how people tried a food for the 1st time back in BC. The 1st person that ate an artichoke I bet wasn't a happy camper eating non edible parts of the flower. And what was that guy thinking that ate Rockefeller Oysters that 1st time.


Not really.
1. Watching the animal kingdom. "Hey, snakes eat eggs, cows drink cows milk, animals that eat these red berries are okay but these ones make them sick or the avoid these red ones," etc. 

2. Desperation. Very hungry people will try new stuff.

3. Forced/slave labor to eat new foods to observe.


----------



## Spenser (5 mo ago)

*Kauboy*

lol thx for the video joke

with regard to inedible food, that was my biological mothers area. She burned hot dogs, COOKED IN WATER. When she made fish, even our 2 cats wouldn't eat it. My 1st good meal from her was when she gave me 75 cents to buy lunch at the school cafeteria.


----------



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Fractional silver maybe? I would never carry an ounce of gold. An ounce of silver is only 20.00. I have plenty of 1 oz. coins I can barter with.


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

csi-tech said:


> Fractional silver maybe? I would never carry an ounce of gold. An ounce of silver is only 20.00. I have plenty of 1 oz. coins I can barter with.


An ounce of silver is not $20. It is about $34 to $35 an ounces right now. That's for new issue US Eagles. Older Eagles, Morgans, Peace dollar are much more. $38 to $43 a coin and they are only 90% silver.


----------



## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Spenser said:


> One of the universal cash currencies of this world is Gold. Not Fools Gold of course, (only time I have seen that is in like Disney land umm err or universal studios in California for the life of me I cannot remember which one it was, but there was a fake mine where you could sift for Gold, (fools gold ) and they gave ya this fake nugget if you found squat.
> 
> A way to carry money that doesn't look like money so ya like are hiding what you got, is to buy a gold coin and paint it like black to kind of look like a Poker Chip, and keep it on you. Someone trying to rob ya wouldn't think twice about taking it from ya as they don't want something useless and not visually appealing. A little lacquer thinner and Boom There She Is.
> 
> If they ask to see what is in your pocket, just 'accidently' drop it and say it is a chip that u kept for memory's sake in a poker game u won.


The Jews in Europe used to sew precious gems into the hems of their clothes. Lightweight, portable and unnoticeable.


----------



## NMPRN (Dec 25, 2020)

I realize this is an old thread but it's been very interesting reading. ...I'm definitely in the "gold is a good thing to have during bad times" camp. _It doesn't replace any of my preps but I consider it a necessary addition._



Kauboy said:


> I've never understood the concept of using precious metals as currency in modern times. *It's heavy,*


I disagree. I would argue that gold is the lightest, smallest, most convenient, easiest to hide and most secure way to hold wealth in any SHTF situation. Compare the size of 1 oz. of gold to the equivalent value in beans, spam, ammo, etc.



Kauboy said:


> the value often makes it impractical for most purchases,


Not necessarily. There are lots of simple, time honoured ways to break gold down into spendable pieces. 
1) Oldest and best way: hammer the edge of the coin flat and slice off a piece with a pocket knife.
2) CombiBars are great but the premiums are outrageous and you don't get it all back.
3) GoldBacks are controversial but they're really gaining traction. New Mexico is, sadly, a hard blue state that fears crazy right wing preppers and doesn't allow for specie legal tender but we have lots of retailers that already accept GoldBacks. ...and you get your premium back when you spend them.



Kauboy said:


> and it would only work in "good faith" trades since it would be difficult to verify.


It's easier to tell if gold is real than if the 5.56 reloads you're trading for are safe to shoot or if a can of spam has gone bad because it was stored in a tool shed in Tucson for five years. 



Kauboy said:


> What real world scenario would play out where this would be a practical thing to have?


We have a feeble minded president setting irresponsible socialist economic policy. He wants to hire 87,000 additional IRS agents and take $400 billion from hard working people to buy votes from his political base. He's opened the border and stifled our energy production. He's got us ass deep in a war that's having a major global economic impact and has a real potential to turn into WW3. ...and he's beta testing a Central Bank Digital Currency. ...and we have the worst inflation in 40 years. Everything I've seen the last few years points to a high potential for a major financial crisis. To my knowledge, in the last 5,000 years, there has never been a financial crisis where it wasn't advantages to have gold. 


A few random thoughts:
Storing wealth in your consumables has it's problems. Food gets eaten, ammo gets shot. 

Five years into the collapse of the Weimar Republic a loaf of bread cost 2 billion marks but you could buy a city block of commercial real estate in downtown Berlin for 25 ounces of gold. 

A barter system only works if the buyer has something the seller wants. If the blacksmith is already up to his elbows in apples and all you have to trade for his services is apples your both out of luck. ...it's the reason 'money' was invented in the first place. I'm a firm believer in the barter system but, like gold, it has it's limitations. I believe in preparing for both.

When people do the math the transition back to a gold based economy becomes natural. Even in Venezuela certain areas of the country have reverted to using gold because the Venezuelan Bolívar collapsed. 









_I believe if gold came in Flat Dark Earth, was M-LOK compatible and looked cool on a chest rig more preppers would take it seriously._


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

NMPRN said:


> It's easier to tell if gold is real...


How would Joe Blow do this?

My question about how a single gold coin could be used practically was not looking for a "world in collapse" situation. It was looking for a "practical" situation.
The response given was some form of emergency where transport was needed and potential repairs required. How would the gold coin in the pocket take care of these things? The tow truck guy and mechanic are just gonna accept slivers of a coin's hammered edge? Not likely.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Forget speculation. This scenario has played out in the Balkans and Venezuela. As stated earlier, it also played out in Germany.

Selco, who survived the Bosnian war, told what happened there. Some would take gold and silver, while many wouldn't. Barter was the norm. Some who did take PM's, seriously discounted the gold and silver, giving pennies on the dollar. After the war, those who did this were rich. Most of the barter was trading needed item for needed item. Guns and ammo being top of the list.

In Venezuela, silver and gold held their premium value. The few who had it were far better off than those who didn't. Better food, easier access to supplies, etc. And the situation in Venezuela is still ongoing.

Few know the true value of gold and silver and will most likely be hesitant to take it. But there will be those who will prize trading for it. It will be a hit and miss in my opinion. Here too, the main barter items will be needed item or skill for needed item or skill.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> In what scenario would you need to use an entire gold goin and also have access to a solvent to remove the faux finish and also prove authenticity to the recipient?
> I've never understood the concept of using precious metals as currency in modern times. It's heavy, the value often makes it impractical for most purchases, and it would only work in "good faith" trades since it would be difficult to verify.
> 
> Help me out. What real world scenario would play out where this would be a practical thing to have?
> Not bait. Legitimately curious, but openly pessimistic...


Kauboy is right. Coins made out of gold have such a high value - even now- that it's very difficult to get change for it.

Better a roll of pre 64 quarters or better yet dimes. Much closer to a one or 5 dolla value


----------



## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

OTOH, large chunks of PMs could have value. IE, for a buy-in to a MAG. Also, _in addition_ to junk silver coins as wealth preservation.


----------



## Trihonda (Aug 24, 2020)

There seems to be a lot of opinions, and passion in this debate. I’ve long held that gold and silver will be valuable assets if the shtf, but they shouldn’t be anywhere close to your first preps. And while they might not be a way to accrue wealth, PMs are one of the few preps that won’t lose value, in the case S does NOT hit the fan…. 

obviously, you need to take care of the basics, shore up all your other preps, but if you have money leftover, or assets, why not convert a small portion of them to PMs?

im not sure why many here feel the need to argue in absolutes…. Who knows, SHTF might look vastly different to many folks, and what actually happens, and IF it happens, are questions too. People should be prepping for many scenarios, including no SHTF.

while i agree that you can’t live off eating gold and silver, and also agree that in some situations and to some people, PMs might not be desirable.. you do you. But for those that claim PMs will be worthless, history begs to differ. There are tons of examples of PMs being supremely important. From Venezuela to Argentina, these collapse situations showed PMs were highly coveted. I just saw another video from a Lebanese woman, who talks about the importance of gold in their collapse…. So you just don’t know.

to tell people PMs will be worthless, and it’s not a good prep, to me comes across as a tad arrogant. There are so many highly popular YouTube preppers that feel differently, many who have real world experiences. As I stated, at least PMs will retain their value if the S doesn’t hit the fan…. I mean, if the zombie apocalypse doesn’t happen, good luck if you put your wealth into extra Mr Buddy heaters, fancy GHBs, solar panels, survival toys, and custom barbed wire baseball bats. (Not that any of those things are bad). 

to the OP, I can see the value of carrying some PMs on you, but don’t see the value of painting them in the circumstances you mentioned. If you get accosted by bandits/muggers, I’d advocate for a means to protect yourself. If they’re searching your pockets, you’re effed. That said, I heard several stories where people painted large silver bullion bricks black and used them as door stops/weights, and burglars never found their loot….


----------



## NMPRN (Dec 25, 2020)

Sorry Kauboy, I see where I did take your question out of context.

But on the general question: I believe there is a practical use for a single gold coin in a SHTF environment, but there are better ways to carry PMs. For me, Constitutional silver and Goldbacks are the way to go.


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

Gold is typically not used as currency. IMHO, it is for "store of wealth". Specifically large denomination coins and bars. However, gold coins do come in smaller denominations. A 1/10th ounce coin is readily available should you so choose to use it as money. That said, silver is more geared for use as a daily means of exchange for goods / services. Both are "money", have been since biblical times and always will be. Right now with spot gold at around $1800.00, a 1/10th ounce Gold Eagle is valued at $250.00 in US paper currency. With silver at about $24.00 an oz., a pre-1964 dime is valued at $2.50 in US paper currency. That said. What do you think will happen to the value / purchasing power of your "currency" when the bankster's take us to a digital currency? CBDC is coming. It is the only option left for them to wipe the slates clean of all of the debt they have created. What will become of the paper currency you have stashed away? BTW. Have you ever asked yourself why a US Gold Eagle is marked "50 Dollars" and a US Silver Eagle is marked "One Dollar"?


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

Trihonda said:


> There seems to be a lot of opinions, and passion in this debate. I’ve long held that gold and silver will be valuable assets if the shtf, but they shouldn’t be anywhere close to your first preps. And while they might not be a way to accrue wealth, PMs are one of the few preps that won’t lose value, in the case S does NOT hit the fan….
> 
> obviously, you need to take care of the basics, shore up all your other preps, but if you have money leftover, or assets, why not convert a small portion of them to PMs?
> 
> ...


This is an excellent video. This person does a great job of explaining the value of PM's. I do however disagree with one of her opinions at about the 5 minute mark. Purchasing Pre-1933 "graded" gold IMHO is an excellent way to store wealth. Yes the premiums are stout but well worth so, if / when the criminals running this country outlaw the ownership if gold. That I believe will happen shortly after the implementation of CBDC. There is already legal precedent established in US Law, executive order 6102 by Roosevelt on 1933 pertaining to confiscation of gold. Take note that "collectible" coins were exempt. However, that doesn't guarantee they will be exempt in the future.


----------



## Trihonda (Aug 24, 2020)

MGNick said:


> This is an excellent video. This person does a great job of explaining the value of PM's. I do however disagree with one of her opinions at about the 5 minute mark. Purchasing Pre-1933 "graded" gold IMHO is an excellent way to store wealth. Yes the premiums are stout but well worth so, if / when the criminals running this country outlaw the ownership if gold. That I believe will happen shortly after the implementation of CBDC. There is already legal precedent established in US Law, executive order 6102 by Roosevelt on 1933 pertaining to confiscation of gold. Take note that "collectible" coins were exempt. However, that doesn't guarantee they will be exempt in the future.


im not a fan of stacking collectibles or coins where 1/2 or more of their value is numismatic…last I priced ASEs (a month back) they were selling for $48, and spot was like $22. Ya, no thanks.

There are some excellent videos discussing the value in going with generic silver. while the ASEs will certainly be an easier sell in the future, and they’re more recognizable.. The premiums paid now won’t translate into more money in the future, especially if the SHTF. Ive seen some excellent analysis on how paying lower premiums on generic silver now, allows you to buy significantly more value of silver, which will be worth much more down the road. Now, that said, I’ve certainly stacked maples and krugs as I was able to get them cheap.


----------



## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

This is an interesting topic. Nice to be able to come here and gather the thoughts of others. I respect their thoughts but I sometimes I disagree with them. Everyone has their own idea of what "value" is. Some like beans, bullets and band-aids. Some farm land, solar, meds, and others PM's. I have been stacking and studying PM's for a long time now. I have learned what I consider "a lot". Most of the knowledge that I gained is from an old coin / pm trader in North Texas. He is about 85 or so now. Been in the business since he was in his late 20's. 1st thing I learn was what to buy. That was US issued coins. They always sell 1st. They always bring a premium. Stay away from bars. Slow sellers, the easiest to counterfeit. Stay away from shipwreck coins, high end collector coins, proofs, coin sets, etc. Also slow sellers. All of this is of course if your intent is to use for a SHTF scenario. Obviously, a coin collector would disagree. 

Until lately, I had focused on junk silver, US Gold and SIlver Eagles. However, I have been analyzing what I think is coming and I believe that shortly, after the implementation of CBDC, you will see them move to outlaw generic gold. That includes Eagles, Krugs, Maple Leafs, Buffalo's, etc. I am also a believer in that history repeats itself. Reference executive order 6102. That is why I decided that adding some graded MS Saint's might be a prudent thing to do. Just in case. If you look around a little or know some of the small time private dealers, you will find them not that far over the price of US Eagles or in some cases, the same price or less. Example. Last week I bought an MS64 St. Gauden for $2K. Right now a US Gold Eagle is $1977 at Apmex. Not worth talking about in my book. To me, that more than offsets any risk of potentially having my gold coins confiscated or being put into a situation that would render them worthless on the open market. Just my 2 cents.


----------

