# Christianity & the Future the Republic



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I've been noticing in some of the recent threads here at the forum that a number of you guys are Christian but don't like organized religion. You don't go to church. Why?

I want to encourage you to think twice about why, because we need strong churches now more than ever. Church attendance on Sundays is down across the board. I believe we're not far away from losing our religious freedoms. Churches that uphold traditional family values are now labeled "hate groups" SPLaw Center labels Brad Drucus (Pacific Justice Institute) a "hater" for saying things like, "Forcing boys and girls to share bathrooms, locker rooms and sleeping arrangements is not equality; it is insanity." It won't be long before they come for the guys in the pulpit. Some may say, "Oh, they can't do that." But they will, give them a little more time to monkey with our rights. You watch them.

Be bold. I don't believe Our Lord ever intended His Kingdom to be a "Jesus and Me only" institution. If Christ is going to be King, we need to build strong churches. Our forefathers understood that. We're not gonna take back our nation without strong churches and strong families.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Spot on @Annie. There is power in numbers. It is easy to defeat loners. Thing is democracy is the wrong venue. It's mob rule, 50 percent plus one. We are supposed to be a Republic were each person has God given rights government or the mob can not take from us. Morality matters as you stated above. Without it we will devolve from a Republic to a Democracy where the State is supreme rather than God. It is happening now.

It's important for moral people to organize in great numbers to vote morally and engage politicians to legislate morally. Being in a Church, being that example to others, having others want to know Christ as you do is part of the solution for our nation and each of our salvations.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

First off @Annie change the Title of the thread from "democracy" to "REPUBLIC".

I get where you are coming from but for me, the problem with churches is the people. I have no use for most churches and will avoid them at most cost.

Just yesterday I spoke with an elderly relative who lost his wife last week. He is catholic and will have a mass and a funeral for his departed wife. I will not attend a catholic church (or for the most part any funeral). I WILL spend some time with the person in fellowship if I want to. But go to most churches? Nope. Can't stand them.

I shared my sorrow with him and told him I was unable to attend the funeral-mass and he replied "that's OK, I'll miss seeing you but there is no reason to feel sorry, she is not in pain and sitting next to Jesus". He truly believed that and I was touched by his faith.

I agreed then he asked if me and Mrs Slippy would mind visiting next week, he then went on to tell me that he heard I bought a new box blade for my tractor and "boy, no reason to buy any more tractor implements, I got plenty I'll give ya"...he said. Matter of fact, when we visit next week, he told me I could have a pick of any of his tractor implements that I wanted. He said he's too old to use them and he wanted me to have them. He thanked me for the call.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

One word....... HYPOCRISY! Hypocrisy from the preacher (or priest) up in the pulpit, from the church elders sitting down in the front rows, and from the rest of the pious drunks, wife beaters, and adulterers scattered throughout the rest of the congregation.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks, Annie, for your OP, . . . definitely spot on.

I've also engaged the "congregation" in a different manner, . . . and at least for now, it seems to be working.

Our little 25 to 35 person church not only financially takes care of it's own, . . . it finances a DVD and Youtube ministry. Google up youtube dwight cimino, . . . and you will find over 100 of our services on there. We do a 3 camera shoot each Sunday, . . . and then doctor it down to a 55 minute or so message, . . . 

That message goes out to some on DVD mailed to their houses, . . . and some on youtube, . . . 

I'll never know all of who watches, . . . but it is another way to reach out.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie, the issue I have is that I couldn't stand the hierarchy of Catholicism and my favorite pastor at the SDA church got "fired."

Lots of my friends, and my doctor, go to a Catholic church which I hear is quite a good and faithful group. Right now it's a problem with 'wardrobe.' I only have two pairs of jeans (really) one is crappy, and the other is crappier.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, the issue I have is that I couldn't stand the hierarchy of Catholicism and my favorite pastor at the SDA church got "fired."
> 
> Lots of my friends, and my doctor, go to a Catholic church which I hear is quite a good and faithful group. Right now it's a problem with 'wardrobe.' I only have two pairs of jeans (really) one is crappy, and the other is crappier.


Wear the crappy pair. Go to church. God looks at the heart.

There's this guy who goes to my church. I don't think he's taken a bath is heaven knows how long. But he's still one of us. God is the judge, not me, but I bet his soul is a lot cleaner with God than a lot of the guys who go around wearing $1000 dollar suits.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, the issue I have is that I couldn't stand the hierarchy of Catholicism and my favorite pastor at the SDA church got "fired."
> 
> Lots of my friends, and my doctor, go to a Catholic church which I hear is quite a good and faithful group. Right now it's a problem with 'wardrobe.' I only have two pairs of jeans (really) one is crappy, and the other is crappier.


Partner I wish you lived near our little church, . . . you would fit right in.

Myself and my two elders are pretty much the only ones who even diddle with a suit, . . . and ties ???? , . . . I'm pretty much alone there.

Jeans, golf shirts, tennis shoes, . . . ball caps, . . . and sweat shirts in the winter, . . . flannel shirts and blouses are a 75% norm, . . . and that is more or less our congregation.

BUT, . . . we love the Lord, . . . worship together as I tell em, . . . "practicing for Heaven, . . . " because that is what we will do there, . . . together, . . .

And I'm hoping whatever I wear there is made of blue jeans and flannel shirts.

If the heart is right, . . . everything else is just fluff, . . . not substance, . . . only the heart and it's attitude are what matters. And all I can say about that is "Thank you, Jesus".

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> First off @Annie change the Title of the thread from "democracy" to "REPUBLIC".


I tried, but it didn't work. Shrugs. Guess I need to go back to madorater school.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Camel923 said:


> Spot on @Annie. There is power in numbers. It is easy to defeat loners. Thing is democracy is the wrong venue. It's mob rule, 50 percent plus one. We are supposed to be a Republic were each person has God given rights government or the mob can not take from us. Morality matters as you stated above. Without it we will devolve from a Republic to a Democracy were the State is supreme rather than God. It is happening now. I
> 
> t's important for moral people to organize in great numbers tovote morally and engage politicians to legislate morally. Being in a Church, being that example to others, having others want to know Christ as you do is part of the solution for our nation and each of our salvations.


Yeah, plus I believe we _owe _ God worship. And there's something about _where two or three are gathered together, there I am with them._


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

The problem with the Catholic Church is much the same as the problem with our government.

The problem is *not*with the Bible, nor our Constitution.

And it's not most of the people, it's the *evil greedy entrenched thugs* running the show. I think we can all agree on that.

I still believe in Christ and pray, attend church on occasion, but do not lend financial support unless it's going directly to my local parish.

I still vote. But I see our elections becoming a farce and our choices of candidates either, bad or worse. I think Americans need to start from the ground up and start electing honest people locally and move them into positions of power on the state and federal level.

This is more difficult in churches. The greedy Bishop wanted to close a local church, that had a devout following, and wonderful Pastors. The uproar from the community was unified and resolute. They held a rotating sit in vigil, vowing not to leave the Church, until the Bishop relented. The Bishop when confronted with such devout pious Christians had to relent or be seen as an agent of Lucifer.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> I tried, but it didn't work. Shrugs. Guess I need to go back to moderator school.


Fixed it for you, Dear. I'll PM you.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Chiefster23 said:


> One word....... HYPOCRISY! Hypocrisy from the preacher (or priest) up in the pulpit, from the church elders sitting down in the front rows, and from the rest of the pious drunks, wife beaters, and adulterers scattered throughout the rest of the congregation.


if you have to come up with an excuse try harder!!!! do you refuse to go to walmart, golf course, gun store, etc.. because there are hypocrites there??

Looking around the congregation you forgot to mention the elderly lady that always gives hand made caps to kids with cancer - who takes a drink now and then

the young man who works 12 hours a week volunteering at a food pantry and still struggles with porn

the pastor who gave up a career making $250,000 a year in order to pastor a small church but he still has a anger problem from time to time

OF COURSE the thing is a church is family, we do not stop being family because we are imperfect

you are trying to hold up Followers of Jesus to a standard even he himself would not hold people to

*
so unless you apply the "HYPOCRISY" RULE to all areas of your life.... you need to go back to church.. or you are the biggest Hypocrite*


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Very interesting thread. Good churches are nice but hard to find for us old old Bapticostals. We had a cool church but the preacher died and we aint found a good place to go yet. About the time he passed and the church unravled..I started getting a lot of off duty security gigs at other churches so I felt like I went to church a lot. Had to listen to a Southern Baptist blab twice a day for years. lol. Anyway when I lost the steenken badge I dont get paid to listen to that stuff any longer.lol. I go to church on the FM radio. No need to dress up..or worry about a parking spot...or getting murdered by liberals and or muslims. This is my preacher. Trump loves hm a lot too. I am going to send him 25 bucks soon. 
https://ptv.org/


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Here's something to consider. If you don't know about your pastor, ask him.

https://thearmageddontimes.com/2016...-to-keep-you-calm-on-your-way-to-a-fema-camp/


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Chiefster23 said:


> One word....... HYPOCRISY! Hypocrisy from the preacher (or priest) up in the pulpit, from the church elders sitting down in the front rows, and from the rest of the pious drunks, wife beaters, and adulterers scattered throughout the rest of the congregation.


Gosh, well c'mon to church then. You'll fit right in... :devil: _Just kidding!!!! _Actually, Jesus told a story about that. You're right, we have to admit when we miss the mark and be real and try to do better.

[11] The Pharisee standing, prayed thus with himself: O God, I give thee thanks that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, as also is this publican. [12] I fast twice in a week: I give tithes of all that I possess. ... [13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift up his eyes towards heaven; but struck his breast, saying: O God, be merciful to me a sinner. ... [14] I say to you, this man went down into his house justified rather than the other: because every one that exalteth himself, shall be humbled: and he that humbleth himself, shall be exalted. ... [15] And they brought unto him also infants, that he might touch them. Which when the disciples saw, they rebuked them.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> if you have to come up with an excuse try harder!!!! do you refuse to go to walmart, golf course, gun store, etc.. because there are hypocrites there??
> 
> Looking around the congregation you forgot to mention the elderly lady that always gives hand made caps to kids with cancer - who takes a drink now and then
> 
> ...


I had to take a bus yesterday.

There was an elderly lady with groceries , a walker, and having a hard time. I stood up and went to help, I loaded her belongings, on and off; every thing except her. I was happy to do so. She thanked me, and I was happy to help.

Why? Because it was the right thing to do, and made her day better.

That is being a good Christian.

P.S. Dear Lord forgive me for my sin, I did not mean to tell a lie. It was Wednesday not Thursday I was on the bus.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Denton said:


> Here's something to consider. If you don't know about your pastor, ask him.
> 
> https://thearmageddontimes.com/2016...-to-keep-you-calm-on-your-way-to-a-fema-camp/


Oooh, that's some scary stuff. Makes me think of that pastor guy from "Poltergeist", leading the flock in the wrong direction.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Annie, yes it the right thing to attend church; but I myself have run into unforeseen obstacles to going. I don't know if it is because Saint Petersburg is full of screwballs, or if I am the screwball. The last place that I tried called itself a "chapel", and it is a good place in some ways; but it has a lousy modus operendi, in general.

I am perplexed at America's churches in general, because it is like Amateur Hour has broken out, all around. They say that they want growth, and then proceed to kill off anything that grows. Some churches purport to be "with it", "hip" or some such; and they stink as much as the ones that are stuck in the mud.

The last revival that I attended can best be summarized as a wake. Like I said, I am perplexed; plus the churches must be too, sometimes it is impossible to know what is going on. Except to know that Christianity has been knocked back on its heels; that much is easy to see.

I think that something has gone badly awry in the churches, but I cannot figure out what that is. But when I show up in sandals, and blue jeans, I am regarded as an untouchable; and I told a very intelligent woman, that America is becoming like India, and Hindu. And now I will tell another very intelligent woman, that is pretty close to what is going on in America. [If I am am right, that is a condemnation of the modern Christian and church.]

The nation has fallen, what I mean is, it is against the church and Christians; and it was not that way back in the 1960's & 1970's.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Here's something to consider. If you don't know about your pastor, ask him.
> 
> https://thearmageddontimes.com/2016...-to-keep-you-calm-on-your-way-to-a-fema-camp/


Has anybody let Alex Jones know about this? Thanks.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Y'all have got me to thinking (and I ain't even drinking!:vs_laugh

Maybe I have some sort of crowd Anxiety or some such nonesense? Not the type that makes people scared to be in crowds, I do just fine. Matter of fact I'm the life of the party most times. Same with being around certain people especially some family. I pull it off very well when I'm with them then afterwards I damn near get sick of the fact that I had to sit and listen to douchebags all afternoon. Then I get upset at myself for doing it.

I would get that same feeling every time I went to church or to a funeral. I look around at most of the people and try to find a righteous man amongst them and usually cannot. Too many people fiddle farting with their phones or worried about some such nonsense, or asking me dipwad personal questions or simply being idiots. People rarely know how to talk about simple things and enjoy each others' company. they always putting on a show. 

So I just don't attend. I do things that I want to do and I am a better person to be around afterwards. Mrs S realized this many years ago and stopped "making" me attend certain functions. When I need a little God time, I talk to GOD. When HE instructs me to study up on something, I do.

And for the most part I feel good about it. On the rare occassion that I don't I do my best to make it right. 

That's all I have to say about church.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> if you have to come up with an excuse try harder!!!! do you refuse to go to walmart, golf course, gun store, etc.. because there are hypocrites there??
> 
> Looking around the congregation you forgot to mention the elderly lady that always gives hand made caps to kids with cancer - who takes a drink now and then
> 
> ...


Annie asked why some of us don't go to church. I answered her question as it pertains to me. I am not a hypocrite! I freely admit to committing many sins in my lifetime. I don't pretend otherwise. I don't judge others for their sins unless they were committed against me. I don't preach morality. And I shop at walmart with the rest of the smelly sinners. The difference is that those walmart shoppers don't preach at me and pretend to be without sin.

I never said that all church goers were bad people. My experiences with organized religion were bad. If you are fine with your religion and church, good for you. My mileage was different, hence my reasons for not attending church.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

> Disturbingly, Pastor Mansfield reiterated several times that the number one job of these pastors is to calm down the detainees and encourage their compliance within the people's new surroundings.


I knew a prison chaplain who was like that, and it was over 20 years ago. I met him when I was in the 19th SFG(A), he impressed me as being an apparatchik, part of the apparatus, I mean.


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

I read some of these postings and I begin to wonder. I pay a thith. I don't worry about where it goes. I know my bishop and all in the church receive no payment. It is a Calling. We have our own welfare system we also have our own employment system. I know if I were to loose my job tomorrow the church would be there to help me. I have worked in the bishop store several times and I saw the look of embarrassment on some of the faces. I told one elderly lady who was extremely embarrassed she needed some temporary assistance that "She Was Cashing In On Her Insurance". Maybe it was the right or maybe the wrong thing to say but she got a little smile and a nod of her head. I am sure she felt a little better about it. Do we have hypocrits? Sure all religions do. But I don't let it stop me. I just soldier on.:tango_face_smile:


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I will say only this; my beliefs are mine, they need no walls, they need no validation or guidance but my own conscience. They require no payment or penances to be made. Organized religion is nothing but another form of control. Morality should not be conditional or negotiated.



> It was the experience of mystery - even if mixed with fear - that engendered religion.
> 
> Albert Einstein


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

> It was the experience of mystery - even if mixed with fear - that engendered religion.
> 
> Albert Einstein


Christ instituted His Church, it wasn't something man-made from human emotions or intellect that engendered religion. Mystery and holy fear are elements of the faith, but our faith is in the person of Jesus Christ who is fully God and became man flesh and blood for us and hung on a tree. Because He loves us that much. There's nothing esoteric about that; I mean yeah its a mystery but it's for every man. Every simple man woman and child.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Annie said:


> Christ instituted His Church, it wasn't something man-made from human emotions or intellect that engendered religion. Mystery and holy fear are elements of the faith, but our faith is in the person of Jesus Christ who is fully God and became man flesh and blood for us and hung on a tree. Because He loves us that much. There's nothing esoteric about that; I mean yeah its a mystery but it's for every man. Every simple man woman and child.


All religion is a mystery and to a certain extent, all instill fear to one degree or another. The fear of the unknown and the fear of death is at the heart of every man. Isn't it convenient that religion portends relief of that fear, if you pay the price. Annie, It's not having faith I have a problem with, it's organized religion as a whole.

The lack of faith is only a part of what's wrong with this country. The collapse of the traditional family unit for one, our education system is another. Rather then teach our kids right from wrong, faith and morality, from within the family unit, we ship our kids off to day care for indoctrination. From there on those kids learn only what the teachers teach. When the teachers aren't preaching the agenda the idiot boxes and social media are. They aren't teaching traditional family values, faith, honor, morality, or factual history. The system has replaced the family unit as the main care giver. Is it any wonder why these kids think socialism is a good idea, have no morals, honor, or faith?

There are to many fatherless homes, to many baby mama's, to many same sex couples raising children, and to little accountability.

What's wrong with this country is the demise of the family unit and our educational system. I don't know that we are not so far down the path that it can be reversed.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Chiefster23 said:


> Annie asked why some of us don't go to church. I answered her question as it pertains to me.


I was pointing out that your reason, THAT PERTAINS to you is just an excuse without really any merit. I have heard it before, "people in church are mean and dont live like they are suppose to so I don't go because they make me feel bad/uncomfortable/ect "

IF-that is a big if..you believe (by "believe" - I mean have faith that He is the creator of everything, His son is Jesus, and Jesus is the only way to Heaven AND that if you love him you will want to do as he asked - which includes being part of a body / family of believers) in the God of the Bible - then you are going to do those things that make him happy and that he commanded.

church is not a building, church is also not nature... church is a BODY - made up of fellow believers... it could take place in a home, in a restaurant, in a camp, a car, or a barn.. it could be a blood family or a unrelated group... but we are COMMANDED not to forsake the gathering.. just like military members are told not to wonder off from the platoon or sheep not wondering off from the herd!!!!

you can worship anywhere at anytime with any number of people but in order FELLOWSHIP it requires other people

Also, we are called to make disciples and you can not make disciples if you have never been discipled

Matthew 28:19-20 
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."



Chiefster23 said:


> I am not a hypocrite!


i doubt that... I have never know a person that was not one...



Chiefster23 said:


> I don't judge others for their sins unless they were committed against me.


sins are never committed against people. sin are committed against God... and if they were the 7 x 70 rule would apply



Chiefster23 said:


> I don't preach morality.


God/Bible nevers talks about morality.. Morality changes every 15-20 years... God is into Holiness



Chiefster23 said:


> I shop at walmart with the rest of the smelly sinners. The difference is that those walmart shoppers don't preach at me and pretend to be without sin.


of course nobody at walmart preaches at you.. they do not care if you go to hell or not!!!! I have never been to a church that people thought they were sinless... it could be that you were convicted by the preaching, but dont think the preacher was saying he was sinless... he was talking about Jesus being sinless



Chiefster23 said:


> My experiences with organized religion were bad. If you are fine with your religion and church, good for you. My mileage was different, hence my reasons for not attending church.


My first few experiences with girls and love were painful, I did not switch to showering with dudes

it is not MY CHURCH... the church belongs God... but you slander all of it based on a few bad apples - the fact you are doing that should scare you... but I am guessing you really do not believe in a God or the Bible - if you did, you would not be BAD MOUTHING His bride

HOW IS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH UNORGANIZED religion going!!!!!!!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> I will say only this; my beliefs are mine, they need no walls, they need no validation or guidance but my own conscience. They require no payment or penances to be made. Organized religion is nothing but another form of control. Morality should not be conditional or negotiated.


I find your statement both understandable and insulting and partly wrong



Prepared One said:


> I will say only this; my beliefs are mine, they need no walls, they need no validation or guidance but my own conscience. They require no payment or penances to be made.


I respect this!! Seriously, at least you are not trying to bend another faith to your ideas or twist writings. I have long maintained that I respect people that have strong beliefs (even if i disagree) more then those that say they are "x" but do not know or only half know



Prepared One said:


> Organized religion is nothing but another form of control.


This is said a lot and its stems from some old atheist from 100's of years ago... but it is not true for Christianity (I will not defend or accuse another faith here). Followers of Christ are good countrymen as long as the country government is doing things that do not conflict with Bible teachings. I
Christians are good church goers and followers until the pastor or elders start going off the rails.. then they tend to nail problems to the door and protest
China understands and try to get rid of them, as does North Korea

If you wanted to build a country and do things your own way...you would not want any Christians there



Prepared One said:


> Morality should not be conditional or negotiated.


unless morality is based on SOMETHING, it will always be conditional or negotiated. I would argue that God is the best yardstick for moral


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Y'all have got me to thinking (and I ain't even drinking!:vs_laugh
> 
> Maybe I have some sort of crowd Anxiety or some such nonesense? Not the type that makes people scared to be in crowds, I do just fine. Matter of fact I'm the life of the party most times. Same with being around certain people especially some family. I pull it off very well when I'm with them then afterwards I damn near get sick of the fact that I had to sit and listen to douchebags all afternoon. Then I get upset at myself for doing it.
> 
> ...


Good to know how you stand on that. i also have a big aversion to crowds. Makes me as nervous as a hooer in Church..so to speak. Now I can tolerate being around kinfolks ok. If they are at my house and I get tired of the bs I go in the mancave and tell them to bite my shorts. I dont visit in their house often and I dont stay long Now this fetish you got about worrying about what other old sinners are doing out in the church pews..aint normal. Reminds me when my Mama was teaching me to drive and I would get nervous of cars coming up behind and I would make a tentaive evasive manuver and such things. "She say...you drive your car and let them drive their car." Seems like Christianity works similar. We best ask Dr. Phil about this. lol..


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> I was pointing out that your reason, THAT PERTAINS to you is just an excuse without really any merit. I have heard it before, "people in church are mean and dont live like they are suppose to so I don't go because they make me feel bad/uncomfortable/ect "
> 
> IF-that is a big if..you believe (by "believe" - I mean have faith that He is the creator of everything, His son is Jesus, and Jesus is the only way to Heaven AND that if you love him you will want to do as he asked - which includes being part of a body / family of believers) in the God of the Bible - then you are going to do those things that make him happy and that he commanded.
> 
> ...


Partner, you have absolutely no idea what my experiences have been. But you sure seem pretty keen on jumping in my shit because my beliefs don't coincide with yours. Are you a progressive liberal? You sure act like one. You also sound like one of those "front row pillars of the church types" I was describing. All "high and mighty" and telling me about how wrong and damned I am. But I'll bet you have your own share of skeletons in your closet.

So Annie asked a question, I answered, and you chimed in with your 2 cents. What say we just give it a rest now?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Prepared One said:


> All religion is a mystery and to a certain extent, all instill fear to one degree or another. The fear of the unknown and the fear of death is at the heart of every man. Isn't it convenient that religion portends relief of that fear, if you pay the price. Annie, It's not having faith I have a problem with, it's organized religion as a whole.


True, fear is an element of religion. But isn't it a healthy fear? I mean fear isn't always a bad thing. Didn't Jesus warn us about hell more than He spoke about heaven? So don't we pay a price for not heeding His warning?



> The lack of faith is only a part of what's wrong with this country. The collapse of the traditional family unit for one, our education system is another. Rather then teach our kids right from wrong, faith and morality, from within the family unit, we ship our kids off to day care for indoctrination. From there on those kids learn only what the teachers teach. When the teachers aren't preaching the agenda the idiot boxes and social media are. They aren't teaching traditional family values, faith, honor, morality, or factual history. The system has replaced the family unit as the main care giver. Is it any wonder why these kids think socialism is a good idea, have no morals, honor, or faith?


You're right.



> There are to many fatherless homes, to many baby mama's, to many same sex couples raising children, and to little accountability.


Sad but true.



> What's wrong with this country is the demise of the family unit and our educational system. I don't know that we are not so far down the path that it can be reversed.


Strong churches are the glue that could change the tide. Less government trying to "fix" things, more churches lending a helping hand to those who need it, and yes, keeping people in line a little more.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Chiefster23 said:


> ....So Annie asked a question, I answered, and you chimed in with your 2 cents. What say we just give it a rest now?


Thanks for sharing! This is just something I've been thinking a lot about these days because of all the horrible stuff that's been going on in my church. It's like this paradox for me, church is. Because it's the one thing that both fixes stuff and messes it up at the same time. I guess that's just how this world works. Even when I'm happy, say it's Christmas morning. There's always some twinge of sorrow mixed in. Like for example, I may miss a deceased loved one who isn't able to be part of the family dinner--that type of thing. Or even in sad times, let's say I ended up in the hospital (hypothetical situation). People bring food over to the house. So there's a little bit of a blessing mixed in. People do kind things sometimes when we're down.

Good gets mixed in with bad and bad gets mixed with good. That's just the way it works in this life, but not in the next.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Y'all have got me to thinking (and I ain't even drinking!:vs_laugh
> 
> Maybe I have some sort of crowd Anxiety or some such nonesense? Not the type that makes people scared to be in crowds, I do just fine. Matter of fact I'm the life of the party most times. Same with being around certain people especially some family. I pull it off very well when I'm with them then afterwards I damn near get sick of the fact that I had to sit and listen to douchebags all afternoon. Then I get upset at myself for doing it.


I get uneasy in large crowds since all the shootings are on the rise. I'd feel better if my state allowed me to carry my gun. I need to get out of New Jersey. Seriously.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I left there 24 Years ago. Never miss it. Wasn't about to raise my daughter in that armpit. Parts of NJ are very nice though, not to paint with a broad brush. Both coasts are too far left for me. Even if they have some fantastic scenery it doesn't make up for the liberal ways.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Chiefster23 said:


> Partner, you have absolutely no idea what my experiences have been. But you sure seem pretty keen on jumping in my shit because my beliefs don't coincide with yours. Are you a progressive liberal? You sure act like one. You also sound like one of those "front row pillars of the church types" I was describing. All "high and mighty" and telling me about how wrong and damned I am. But I'll bet you have your own share of skeletons in your closet.
> 
> So Annie asked a question, I answered, and you chimed in with your 2 cents. What say we just give it a rest now?


I was pointing out (correctly) that your reasoning was flawed.

using your reasoning.. after having a few bad experiences I should stop going to walmart, the tire store, the dentist, or any place that I may have to listen to somebody else tel me what they think or bump into a person that doe snot live up to MY expectations.

I have found that most folks that start pointing at others and accuse them of being holier then thou.. are upset that that person is actually trying to live their life for Jesus and tells others... as they are instructed

Unlike the liberal progressive that whats to make Jesus agree with them... I am a person that tries (daily to make myself like Jesus)

having attended churches for 50+ years I have found the GOOD out weighs the bad... and I have seen the bad.. but I refuse to let their actions effect my walk

I will leave you with this.. because it seems you are looking for the meek and mild gentle never cause problems or gets people upset church.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

This always struck me as breing smart to bet on God.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Pascals-wager.html


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> I'd feel better if my state allowed me to carry my gun.


Annie, does your state allow any type of knife for defensive purposes? I can get you any type of knife that meets your laws, would that make you feel a bit more secure? Even though I carry my P238 everywhere I go, my Boker automatic rides with me daily.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Thank God!

I get to keep on going to church, a place filled with the broken , the backsliders, the imperfect, the hypocrites, and admitted sinners. No wonder I feel right at home.

If all churches were filled with perfect believers we wouldn't have needed the sacrifice on the cross that allows us to have a relationship with a God who's nature is perfect and cannot dwell with sin. I for one, am thankful for the sacrifice at the cross and the opportunity to accept the gift of eternal life and embark on my journey of striving to live within his will.

I also, tend to see and find the weaknesses in others, at work, with family, in public, and even in church. Perhaps in life that is why I typically lead endeavors and am able to get the most out of the least when dealing with the skillset/mindset of others. 

So …. how do I deal with the flaws of the idiots I encounter daily so well? I am always mindful of my very own shortcomings and flaws.

Did I already say ... Thank God?


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I find your statement both understandable and insulting and partly wrong
> 
> I respect this!! Seriously, at least you are not trying to bend another faith to your ideas or twist writings. I have long maintained that I respect people that have strong beliefs (even if i disagree) more then those that say they are "x" but do not know or only half know
> 
> ...


Insult was unintended MM. I understand your devotion to your faith and respect it. I rarely get into religious discussions so I will bow out of the conversation leaving you to your beliefs and me to mine. :tango_face_wink:


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Considering the wide demographic, I think most of us have a differing religion. However, this is a forum where we find answers to problems, not problems with answers. For example, we might all own differing firearms or knives, but we share what we've learned. I'm an SDA, but if someone wrote in with despair, I'm sure all the Catholics, Lutherans and SDAs would try to come up with alternatives. At least I hope so.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Prepared One said:


> Insult was unintended MM. I understand your devotion to your faith and respect it. I rarely get into religious discussions so I will bow out of the conversation leaving you to your beliefs and me to mine. :tango_face_wink:


I like a man of conviction, so &#8230;.. I guess you won't mind if I send some of them neighboring young gun LDS street walkers down your way to practice up a bit will ya? :tango_face_wink:


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> I like a man of conviction, so &#8230;.. I guess you won't mind if I send some of them neighboring young gun LDS street walkers down your way to practice up a bit will ya? :tango_face_wink:


Sure! Send them my way. :devil:


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

When I met the woman who would become my wife, she was a secretary for our town's United Church of Christ.
So, as we got serious, I joined the church, and even worked part time as the church's maintenance man in addition to my day job.

Then, around 1994, United Church of Christ decided that it would ordain gay pastors. My wife and I, being conservative Christians, did not believe this was in line with scripture. Although our own pastor was not gay, we still could not abide with what we saw as the church itself abandoning the bible.
Accordingly, we gave up our membership and left the church.

Not long after, we moved to our present location, a part of Florida that is still belongs to The South. We tried several Baptist churches in the neighboring towns. I guess for you northern folks, that would be "Southern Baptist":tango_face_smile:

At each one, people were what I consider "pushy", wanting to know where we live, in case we needed a visit, I guess. We were asked to sign up for various things. Several women asked who my grandmother was, something I took as a slight because it indicated I wasn't from "around here".
I just wanted to worship my God, and hear the bible preached. That's all. I wanted to be left alone, I wasn't interested in their committees, or social events, or building fund drives.
This was 4 different Baptist churches. 
They drove me right out the door, never to return.

I was raised Presbyterian, but the only one here is a Presbyterian USA - which if you don't know is the very liberal wing. Openly gay preachers, etc. The REAL one is Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), that is where the scripture is still adhered to. No PCA in the area, and I'm not driving 50 miles one way to go to the nearest one.
I'm not against gay people, what they do is between them and God. But I will not allow one to preach the bible to me. I'm sorry.

So, Annie, I love God, I love my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. My friend Pastor Dwight ministers to me.
Thank you, Dwight. (I need to send a donation)


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)

Hebrews 10:25 KJV

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> So, Annie, I love God, I love my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. My friend Pastor Dwight ministers to me.
> Thank you, Dwight. (I need to send a donation)


I know you do. :tango_face_smile:

ETA: it's nothing like that at my church. Catholics are notoriously unfriendly. Not in a mean way, just that they're very happy to leave you alone.

Below was a double post. I quoted my post.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

We've got a lot of Catholic churches in Pennsylvania over (200 last year, I think?). Some churches are getting closed down and turned into mosques. Sometimes they become bars; night clubs. There's one old Protestant church I pass every so often in NJ that's been turned into a Planned Parenthood clinic. 

Just putting it out there to think about.... These are just my thoughts and I'll let this go now after this post. I'll stop because I hope I'm not sounding bitchy. 

I don't know anyone here personally, but I think a lot of you guys are the salt of the earth. We need real men--like you--to form strong churches if we're going to reclaim our culture for our kids and grandkids. If that happens, if we get strong communities at the local level, God will bless our nation. I know He will. Maybe it's not too late.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> We've got a lot of Catholic churches in Pennsylvania over (200 last year, I think?). Some churches are getting closed down and turned into mosques. Sometimes they become bars; night clubs. There's one old Protestant church I pass every so often in NJ that's been turned into a Planned Parenthood clinic.
> 
> Just putting it out there to think about.... These are just my thoughts and I'll let this go now after this post. I'll stop because I hope I'm not sounding bitchy.
> 
> I don't know anyone here personally, but I think a lot of you guys are the salt of the earth. We need real men--like you--to form strong churches if we're going to reclaim our culture for our kids and grandkids. If that happens, if we get strong communities at the local level, God will bless our nation. I know He will. Maybe it's not too late.


lots of folks are now meeting in homes like the 1st century church. 1 church I read about sold the build and now meet in rented spaces... no building maintenance, upkeep, or mortgage.. they do more outreach

1 church just skipped paying/buying easter advertising and paid off over over $2 million in hospital debt for 900 people


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> When I met the woman who would become my wife, she was a secretary for our town's United Church of Christ.
> So, as we got serious, I joined the church, and even worked part time as the church's maintenance man in addition to my day job.
> 
> Then, around 1994, United Church of Christ decided that it would ordain gay pastors. My wife and I, being conservative Christians, did not believe this was in line with scripture. Although our own pastor was not gay, we still could not abide with what we saw as the church itself abandoning the bible.
> ...


RPD

You said it better than I did earlier in the thread about people at churches asking nosy questions etc.

You've explained my experiences with new churches perfectly.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> lots of folks are now meeting in homes like the 1st century church. 1 church I read about sold the build and now meet in rented spaces... no building maintenance, upkeep, or mortgage.. they do more outreach
> 
> 1 church just skipped paying/buying easter advertising and paid off over over $2 million in hospital debt for 900 people


I'm all for that kind of charity, and it may well come to having church in people's homes. As far as I know, there's nothing wrong there. But remember the alabaster jar. It's okay to lavish God with beautiful things, like glorious churches and the very finest we have to offer. In fact it pleases Him. Because we'll always have the poor and we should give to them, but we won't always be able to give to our Lord in such a way as we can here and now materially while we're alive.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, does your state allow any type of knife for defensive purposes? I can get you any type of knife that meets your laws, would that make you feel a bit more secure? Even though I carry my P238 everywhere I go, my Boker automatic rides with me daily.


If it was me..I would carry anyway and if the dumb cops find it have a little money set aside for the bail bond etc. Chances are if you innocent and minding your own business they probably wouldnt care. Get the insurance for gun toterers. If you go to exotic places with metal detectors and crotch sniffing dogs...such as at Airports..Baseball games etc. I would leave it at home or in the Trunk maybe. I was taught dont bring knives to gunfights but apparently we all think different around here.lol. I am a big fan of Oleoresin Capscicum. pepper spray. It works muy bueno on humans. Not very effective on dogs or geese.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

bigwheel said:


> Chances are if you innocent and minding your own business they probably wouldn't care.


I have several Boker Kalashnikov 74s in various stages of "lethal." I have been setting aside a black/green 74 with a polished edge and a choil, waiting for Annie to claim it.

Here's my thinking, I believe that most women are probably grabbed as the attack is ensued. Most people would be fending with that one arm, and pulling a weapon with the other. Now, I don't care, really. If a clown is stupid enough to grab me (or my wife in front of me) he's going to be cold when the cops get there. For our female members here, a strong switchblade is exactly what they need and available instantly.

I have stumbled across a brief video done by two guys who sell knives for a business. They did an entire feature on the Boker product. Both of them remarked that the 74 was an amazing value, speedy to deploy, loud, and deadly. For 40 bucks, both of these guys were also surprised by the quality.

I would suggest that the members here look into the various styles of the Boker Kalashnikov 74. I have four of them.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Wow..know Annie is going to love that new cutting instrument. She will prob like to carry it in her garter belt as per the cute bad girls in the James 
Bond movies. That seemed highly effective.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

So far she's been silent. A knife like this is a superior cutting tool. In the hands of a defender it can cut to the bone. Not everyone wants to be "that guy."


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> So far she's been silent. A knife like this is a superior cutting tool. In the hands of a defender it can cut to the bone. Not everyone wants to be "that guy."


Extremely generous of you! I already have that Kershaw Barge you sent to my PO Box. That's fine. It's a good utility knife. I'm happy with that. Laws are very strict in NJ, and I don't want to end up in the women's correctional facility here in Clinton. That would be bad.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> If it was me..I would carry anyway and if the dumb cops find it have a little money set aside for the bail bond etc. Chances are if you innocent and minding your own business they probably wouldnt care. Get the insurance for gun toterers. If you go to exotic places with metal detectors and crotch sniffing dogs...such as at Airports..Baseball games etc. I would leave it at home or in the Trunk maybe. I was taught dont bring knives to gunfights but apparently we all think different around here.lol. I am a big fan of Oleoresin Capscicum. pepper spray. It works muy bueno on humans. Not very effective on dogs or geese.


Pepper spray, yes! That's good. I keep it on me along with the Kershaw Barge.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Wow..know Annie is going to love that new cutting instrument. She will prob like to carry it in her garter belt as per the cute bad girls in the James
> Bond movies. That seemed highly effective.


Oh right, that's me!


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## RoadWarrior (May 28, 2019)

Spent a winter homeless near a church. Not one person offered to help me get on my feet. 

I did a tour in Iraq- infantry. Every platoon has one or two guys who talk a good game about how tough they are. When the shit hit the fan the big talkers were the first ones who got the deer in the head light look and froze up. Afterwards they would proclaim how tough they were and deny their cowardice. 

The American church in general is the loud talker, if they are non-denominational they mention how they are different ect. Same shitty sales pitches different day...why? They are covering up their cowardice. 

I'll take a church serious when I see a food shelf on site- that they are taking care of the least among them. A group is only as strong as it's weakest link and if they aren't taking care of the least among them then it's all talk about helping others and very little action. Soft asses breed hard hearts...and those pews be mighty soft yo. 

I have my group of friends who know Jesus and that's enough for me.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

RoadWarrior said:


> Spent a winter homeless near a church. Not one person offered to help me get on my feet.
> 
> I did a tour in Iraq- infantry. Every platoon has one or two guys who talk a good game about how tough they are. When the shit hit the fan the big talkers were the first ones who got the deer in the head light look and froze up. Afterwards they would proclaim how tough they were and deny their cowardice.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your service. Sorry to hear about homelessness. Who did you ask for help? Where did you go?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

God knows it isn't hard to see that the Catholic Church has problems.

But I guess it's different for Catholics than for Protestants. This 'Jesus and me' and 'I don't need religion' doesn't work for Catholics. We have Mary as mother of the Church, Christ's Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist, the Sacraments. It's only because of the Church that we have the bible and sacred tradition.

How do you even have Christianity without the Church? You can't. We wouldn't. I mean, what would St Paul have to say about 'Jesus and me?' He and the other apostles were willing to be martyred to start the churches. When Our Lady has appeared, she always requests that a church be built at that sight.

In the end, Our Lady of Fatima said 'Her Immaculate heart will triumph', and it's God's Will. Our Lady warned about a lot of the trouble we're seeing now, but she made that promise. We'll see a period of peace.

She's in the Oval Office. ETA: Trump asked to keep the statue. She's at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave--somewhere. Yes.








Brazil was recently consecrated to her Immaculate Heart.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Yes, Trump called in a Catholic priest to have the White House exorcised. That's pretty amazing! I wonder what Trump knows about what-all went on there before him? I'd like to know.

ETA: Long Live Christ the King!

Edit, edit: okay I'm back for a little more... I have more time this AM 'cause Sunday School's over for summer. :tango_face_smile:
What would our forefathers have done if they were alive today?

For them to turn away and say, "Well, the churches are broken, I'm gonna go home now"? No way, they would say that's effeminate. They were strong men who came to this country for religious freedom. 

It could happen that we lose our freedoms to assemble, freedom to gather and have a pastor talk straight up about sin. That could become hate speech--it already is in many places. If that happens, it's our own fault. 

If there's anything I love about this forum, it's that's there's a lot of testosterone. That's what our country and our world need right now. The kind of strength our forefather's had. If they were alive to see the kinds of problems our churches are having today, they would roll up their sleeves and fix them. I really believe that.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> it's that's there's a lot of testosterone


Lots of Italians and Sicilians in bike clubs. They prefer to pronounce that as "testosteroni."


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## RoadWarrior (May 28, 2019)

Annie said:


> Thanks for your service. Sorry to hear about homelessness. Who did you ask for help? Where did you go?


Went to the church cause they have a Bible that talks about taking care of one another, no one went without need ect. Believe that's found in the book of acts. The VA said "I was young, Ill bounce back."

I learned the american church building talks about reading their Bible but actually taking care of one another is ignored cause that would inconvenience. They might actually have to get off their soft pews and go outside and risk getting cold and get a brother out of the cold among other things. Annie that's why a lot of believers have left the church is cause we see the empty words and performance...and we want nothing to do with it. Jesus talks about the pharisees who pray in public for everyone to see....that's what the american church has become.

Losing everything was a blessing in disguise cause I lived on one hot meal a day was all I could afford, when the crap hits the fan it's not going to be a shock cause I've already done violence and I've lost everything. To loose everything again would be a walk in the park- already had my practice run, made mistakes and learned from them. Yall who prep but havn't experienced losing everything are going to be emotional wrecks with the rest of most of this country. Spent months bundled up in blankets with no heat in my truck through -20 temps...I'll be just fine. :tango_face_smile:


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

RoadWarrior said:


> Went to the church cause they have a Bible that talks about taking care of one another, no one went without need ect. Believe that's found in the book of acts. The VA said "I was young, Ill bounce back."
> 
> I learned the american church building talks about reading their Bible but actually taking care of one another is ignored cause that would inconvenience. They might actually have to get off their soft pews and go outside and risk getting cold and get a brother out of the cold among other things. Annie that's why a lot of believers have left the church is cause we see the empty words and performance...and we want nothing to do with it. Jesus talks about the pharisees who pray in public for everyone to see....that's what the american church has become.
> 
> Losing everything was a blessing in disguise cause I lived on one hot meal a day was all I could afford, when the crap hits the fan it's not going to be a shock cause I've already done violence and I've lost everything. To loose everything again would be a walk in the park- already had my practice run, made mistakes and learned from them. Yall who prep but havn't experienced losing everything are going to be emotional wrecks with the rest of most of this country. Spent months bundled up in blankets with no heat in my truck through -20 temps...I'll be just fine. :tango_face_smile:


I have so much more to offer you than the "taking care" you seem to have not seen from the Body of Christ. Therefore, I will lift you up in my prayers and pray you find His Light.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

RoadWarrior said:


> Went to the church cause they have a Bible that talks about taking care of one another, no one went without need ect. Believe that's found in the book of acts. The VA said "I was young, Ill bounce back."


 It's a bad thing that any veteran should go homeless. This country is so very broken with regard to that.



> I learned the american church building talks about reading their Bible but actually taking care of one another is ignored cause that would inconvenience. They might actually have to get off their soft pews and go outside and risk getting cold and get a brother out of the cold among other things. Annie that's why a lot of believers have left the church is cause we see the empty words and performance...and we want nothing to do with it. Jesus talks about the pharisees who pray in public for everyone to see....that's what the american church has become.


Well, as for the individual people within the church, you can never tell. It's always possible that people are strapped. Or else they're already caring for several people in their own home.

As for the pastor and leadership, if they offered you absolutely nothing, yeah something's wrong there. A cup of coffee, a hot meal and then steering you in the right direction for help; that sort of thing should've been part of the picture. The churches in my area offer homeless host weeks. The ones that are big enough take turns sheltering the homeless.

I'm going to say something and I hope you don't take it the wrong way, but the reason you need to go to church isn't because of what people can give you, or even because of what you can give to other people. All that's good; charity is good and rightly ordered. But the primary purpose for going to church is to worship God; give Him what's owed to Him.



> Losing everything was a blessing in disguise cause I lived on one hot meal a day was all I could afford, when the crap hits the fan it's not going to be a shock cause I've already done violence and I've lost everything. To loose everything again would be a walk in the park- already had my practice run, made mistakes and learned from them. Yall who prep but havn't experienced losing everything are going to be emotional wrecks with the rest of most of this country. Spent months bundled up in blankets with no heat in my truck through -20 temps...I'll be just fine. :tango_face_smile:


I can believe it. In a lot of ways, what you say here is spot on. I've often thought Third World people are gonna fair better that First World people for that very reason.


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## RoadWarrior (May 28, 2019)

Annie said:


> It's a bad thing that any veteran should go homeless. This country is so very broken with regard to that.
> 
> Well, as for the individual people within the church, you can never tell. It's always possible that people are strapped. Or else they're already caring for several people in their own home.
> 
> ...


Brief synopsis- when I was 16 asked God to send me where others wont go, make it clear and I'd go. Fast forward to Iraq and was reading through Matthew 16 and after reading the words "those who are willing to loose their life for the sake of Christ will gain it. After reading this knew God was asking me if I was willing to loose my life for the sake of my guys. I asked God if anyone was hurt or killed to let it be me, let me take the hit so my guys don't.

Before becoming homeless I volunteered to lose everything. Long story...basically knew God was going to allow everything to be taken away and asked for the intent...that's all I needed and I'd agree to it. God answered and I said "ok take everything" 
A year later everything was gone and now restoration is in the process. Slower than I'd like tho. What kept me going was during the worst part of the winter met a girl who was blind in one eye and offered to pray with her. Couldn't walk away and not do anything cause that's how I was being treated. Put my hand on her face and said "God you're the great physician and she needs her sight back." 
Took my hand off her face and asked how it was. She said it was blury but could see. I told her to go home and get some sleep and she would be fine in the morning.

Saw her a week later and asked how her eye was doing. She had been looking for me for the past week and said she used to wear glasses before she went blind in that eye. Optometrist that morning told her she was 20/20 both eyes. At my absolute worst I saw the blind see. Needed to experience that just as much as she did which provided hope to keep pushing ahead.

As far as worshiping God, tonight I met another combat veteran at the bar and had a great conversation. Parked the truck looked up at the stars and thanked God for putting good people in my path.

I don't need to go to church to worship God- and to give what is due. The call of Christ has cost everything. Giving money to a church aint giving to God.

Here is the thing- the american church has turned into a buisiness with full time pastors who often see this as a career. Being a shepherd isn't a career it's a calling and full time ministry means the shepherds aren't out in the fields where their sheep are the rest of the week. This creates a detached secular/sacred mentality which is stupid & rediculous. Paul was a tent maker along with his calling...he was working with his hands when he wasn't in trouble with the romans.

Full time ministry also makes pastors some of the most fearful leaders you have ever met. Fearful leaders are weak leaders. Their paycheck relies on making others happy so they keep going there and keeps the coin rolling in. As a result pastors are forced to be nice and spineless, they can't say or do something controversial or that might end their income. As a result you have a ton of full time ministry folks who have no spine whatsoever to do what is right. Cause doing what is right is often unpopular and that might cut into the paycheck. That is why emotional/sexual abuse is rampant in some churches cause fearful leaders will not take a stand for people who are abused. Or the other side of the coin of a fearful pastor is control and Mark Driscoll is a perfect example of the abuse from control.

Good leaders work themselves out of a job. That's why pastors should work outside of a church so they can have the freedom to have a backbone.

I told a couple church leaders about abuse experienced in my family and they told me to reconcile despite my family's refusal to change. They wanted my story shoved under the table and forgotten about...cause my parents give money and support. Exposing injustice would've cut into the church's money and nice reputation. After it was said and done I didn't matter and tough shit- I do so I found others who treat me like I matter.

Leaving the church building and developing friendships with other believers who have also left has been one of the best things I've ever done. Some of these individuals took me in and I'm still very close withem.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

@RoadWarrior, I'm glad that you have faith in Christ and that you pray. Go out and find a good church. We're not meant to go it alone. The other side is united in pulling this country and other formerly Christian countries down through perversion and 
false religions ad nauseam. It might already be too late.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

RoadWarrior said:


> Spent a winter homeless near a church. Not one person offered to help me get on my feet.
> 
> I did a tour in Iraq- infantry. Every platoon has one or two guys who talk a good game about how tough they are. When the shit hit the fan the big talkers were the first ones who got the deer in the head light look and froze up. Afterwards they would proclaim how tough they were and deny their cowardice.
> 
> ...


We had a family leave the church.. the reason was that nobody viisted the wife when she was in the hospital for 2 days... the bigger thing was that the church was not told she was going into or was at the hospital!!!

so you were homeless and living next to a church.. did you go and talk to them or did you avoid them like you are accusing them of avoid you.. remember ask and you shall receive?

I will admit that there are lots of crappy congregation... after all it is a SMALL FLOCK and there are many posers.. however.... It is wrong to criticize the bride (as a whole) because you do not like the actions or inaction of a few


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

RoadWarrior said:


> Went to the church cause they have a Bible that talks about taking care of one another, no one went without need ect. Believe that's found in the book of acts. The VA said "I was young, Ill bounce back."
> 
> I learned the american church building talks about reading their Bible but actually taking care of one another is ignored cause that would inconvenience. They might actually have to get off their soft pews and go outside and risk getting cold and get a brother out of the cold among other things. Annie that's why a lot of believers have left the church is cause we see the empty words and performance...and we want nothing to do with it. Jesus talks about the pharisees who pray in public for everyone to see....that's what the american church has become.
> 
> Losing everything was a blessing in disguise cause I lived on one hot meal a day was all I could afford, when the crap hits the fan it's not going to be a shock cause I've already done violence and I've lost everything. To loose everything again would be a walk in the park- already had my practice run, made mistakes and learned from them. Yall who prep but havn't experienced losing everything are going to be emotional wrecks with the rest of most of this country. Spent months bundled up in blankets with no heat in my truck through -20 temps...I'll be just fine. :tango_face_smile:


here is MY ISSUE... If you really LOVE Jesus and want to serve him.. if you see a problem you work to fix it - PAUL went and confronted Peter and corrected him

but instead of fixing the problem and being brave and showing people the errors of their ways YOU did exactly what you are accusing the other guys of doing.. instead of putting any work into it you quit

In other words, you allowed others to control your WALK with Jesus... If I stopped going to church whenever a member (brother or sister disappointed me) I would never go....

people think the church is suppose to be this wonderful perfect thing... it isnt.. it is a family of like minded followers of Jesus who get made, make mistakes, do stupid things.. yep love each other

the bible is clear that the outside world will know that we are HIS by the way we LOVE one another (speaking of how the body loves its members)

IN THE USA
Churches run
20,000+ food pantries
50+ Free Hospitals
1,5000+ free medical clinics
61,000 soup kitchens
1,000 of free clothing stores
each night around 550,000 men and women sleep in church sponsored shelters
kids attended 1,000's of after school programs

If you have a couple of bad dates you don't swear off women


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

RoadWarrior said:


> when the crap hits the fan it's not going to be a shock cause* I've already done violence* and I've lost everything. To loose everything again would be a walk in the park- already had my practice run, made mistakes and learned from them. Yall who prep but havn't experienced losing everything are going to be emotional wrecks with the rest of most of this country. Spent months bundled up in blankets with no heat in my truck through -20 temps...I'll be just fine. :tango_face_smile:


I just caught this... So you think that because you have lost everything and have DONE VIOLENCE that makes you some how superior to those that have not lost everything and or done violence

Losing everything is NEVER a walk in the park!

Doing violence means hurting those that are weaker then you and taking things from others or doing violence for violence sake as a form of pleasure

many of us prep so we will not lose everything. We put away food, we put away water/filters, and most of us also DONATE TO CHARITIES - I would bet that at least 75% of the people here give something to some charity because they care

You think you are special because you LEFT THE CHURCH because you found it wanting... that is so wrong on so many levels.. I do not have the time to correct it.. GOOD DAY SIR

I would bet that the vast majority of people here would not resort to violence in order to survive because they have prepared


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

RoadWarrior said:


> Went to the church cause they have a Bible that talks about taking care of one another, no one went without need ect. Believe that's found in the book of acts. The VA said "I was young, Ill bounce back."
> 
> I learned the american church building talks about reading their Bible but actually taking care of one another is ignored cause that would inconvenience. They might actually have to get off their soft pews and go outside and risk getting cold and get a brother out of the cold among other things. Annie that's why a lot of believers have left the church is cause we see the empty words and performance...and we want nothing to do with it. Jesus talks about the pharisees who pray in public for everyone to see....that's what the american church has become.
> 
> Losing everything was a blessing in disguise cause I lived on one hot meal a day was all I could afford, when the crap hits the fan it's not going to be a shock cause I've already done violence and I've lost everything. To loose everything again would be a walk in the park- already had my practice run, made mistakes and learned from them. Yall who prep but haven't experienced losing everything are going to be emotional wrecks with the rest of most of this country. Spent months bundled up in blankets with no heat in my truck through -20 temps...I'll be just fine. :tango_face_smile:


I was living in my car when I killed a man who attacked me, plus I went a good 6 months with no way to eat, before that. So when I got to jail, I had rancid bologna sandwiches to get by on. That's the bright side of it.

I can't go back home, because I would end up in a kill or be killed; I was challenged by 2 men about a week after I was acquitted. They wanted to step off into the dark with me.
They had knives and they said so, but I had a Colt .45 ACP in my pocket, and I did not say so. Things would have gone very badly for them. Anyway, I live in Saint Petersburg now; and I have lived here for 10 years. Some of the dumbest humans that I have met, live right here in this town.

BTW: the Christians around here are a bunch of numb skulls, but they are that way all across America now. It is like someone gave them permission to be clowns or childish.
Me personally, I have a Bible in my head, and about 8 or 9 hard copies at the house. Not too many people can keep up with me in discussions of the books, and personalities in it.

I love the Bible, it is the best literature that there is. I am trying to run down a NRSV with Apocrphya. Be like me, and read the Bible as if your life depended on it.







PS: For some reason my sentence articulation has become choppy, and I think that it is due to hypoglycemic attacks. I think that I have brain damage, and that is not in jest. God Bless.

PSS: Annie and Denton are very good Christian folks, and like them, I care how people are treated in life. It is unusual to find devout Christians these days, but they are out there.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

You will find more TRUE spirituality in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous than you will in many churches.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

MisterMills357 said:


> I was living in my car when I killed a man who attacked me, plus I went a good 6 months with no way to eat, before that. So when I got to jail, I had rancid bologna sandwiches to get by on. That's the bright side of it.
> 
> I can't go back home, because I would end up in a kill or be killed; I was challenged by 2 men about a week after I was acquitted. They wanted to step off into the dark with me.
> They had knives and they said so, but I had a Colt .45 ACP in my pocket, and I did not say so. Things would have gone very badly for them. Anyway, I live in Saint Petersburg now; and I have lived here for 10 years. Some of the dumbest humans that I have met, live right here in this town.
> ...


Never tried that translation. Bet it says some unfamilar stuff..lol. I realy like the Geneva Bible of 1599. It predated the King James version by 40 years or so. 
https://www.brighthubeducation.com/esl-lesson-plans/2409-helpgeneva-bible-vs-king-james-bible/


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## RoadWarrior (May 28, 2019)

Maine-Marine said:


> We had a family leave the church.. the reason was that nobody viisted the wife when she was in the hospital for 2 days... the bigger thing was that the church was not told she was going into or was at the hospital!!!
> 
> so you were homeless and living next to a church.. did you go and talk to them or did you avoid them like you are accusing them of avoid you.. remember ask and you shall receive?
> 
> I will admit that there are lots of crappy congregation... after all it is a SMALL FLOCK and there are many posers.. however.... It is wrong to criticize the bride (as a whole) because you do not like the actions or inaction of a few


Slept in the parking lot 100 ft away while working a job that didn't give enough hours to rebound. Yes, I asked the pastor for help, regularly attended those three months and they said it was ok to park there and that's about it. Except for meeting that young lady that's a dark season I won't discuss anymore- please respect my wishes. I'm critisizing the american church building not the worldwide bride as a whole. I've made that pretty clear. There has been enough assumptions that this is my last response on this thread.

My intent was to use some personal experiences to answer annie's question why many of us won't go to church anymore. The point I was trying to communicate (and did so rather poorly) is the message I have consistently received from the church building is I'm not needed. I can sit, listen and give money and get "plugged in to a life group " ect. or whatever current cliche is in use...but in all reality I'm not needed.

The fix has been to go elsewhere and find other believers who want me around. During college applied some lessons from reading the Bible in Iraq and found some guys who became my church...we ate together 3-4 times a week, my door was never locked (2.5 million city of San Antonio) so they often walked in without knocking to come drink my beer and often interrupted my dates. We talked life and confessed our worst sins with one another- none of that accountability crap.....we had a trust that resulted in a transparency that was freaking cool. Been gone from San Antonio since 2012 and couple times a week we still talk on the phone. My past experience with church has largely been one of conditional loyalty- if you leave we don't keep in touch. Those guys down in Texas are still loyal 7 years later...

Last church building I visited a few months ago reminded me of why I quit doing the sunday building, asked to meet with the pastor twice- they said they would call back and nobody did. Was on standby to take in a domestic abuse victim and asked if anyone would help...an elder said take her to a shelter. aka- nope. Same message- I'm not needed.

Men leave the church cause sitting on a pew and being in a life group or whatever bible study or whatever the name....men aren't alive and needed when we are invited to sit on our asses and talk about our feelings. Churches are dieing cause men have been driven away and the numbers are proof. I don't have statistics but I've read them somewhere. I heard 75 pct of kids raised in the church will leave. That's a 25 pct success rate...an F would be a compliment on that report card! 
I have no desire to help fix your failing grade with your men or kids nor do I really care cause I'm welcome among believers who have also left. I don't have kids so its not my job to teach yours.

It seemed like my answers above wasn't liked so it was open season to make loaded questions about me. That's why I don't like the church building...tell the american church the truth and they will play victim for an answer they didn't like. That's called institutional narcissism...

To answer another response: why go to a place trying to fix? That's stupid and people can recognize ulterior motives from a mile away. Nobody wants to be fixed we want to be accepted and welcome...change (good or bad)is a natural result.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> You will find more TRUE spirituality in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous than you will in many churches.


I'm glad you can find honesty and connection at those meetings. As for me...

_O Lord I have loved the beauty of Thy house and the place where Thy glory dwelleth.

My foot hath stood in the straight way in the churches I will bless Thee, O Lord.
_


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

BTW, guys, bikers pray and some will embarrass most of the traditional "church people."

I once saw colors that were strange to me. Yikes, these guys made my club look like scrubbed citizens. I didn't see any 1%er patches, but boy these guys looked scary. I asked one of my brothers what "CMA" meant.

I was shocked when he told me, "_It's stands for the 'Christian Motorcycle Association'..._." Truth be told, clearly some of these guys were former outlaws.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

RoadWarrior said:


> Slept in the parking lot 100 ft away while working a job that didn't give enough hours to rebound. Yes, I asked the pastor for help, regularly attended those three months and they said it was ok to park there and that's about it. Except for meeting that young lady that's a dark season I won't discuss anymore- please respect my wishes. I'm critisizing the american church building not the worldwide bride as a whole. I've made that pretty clear. There has been enough assumptions that this is my last response on this thread.
> 
> My intent was to use some personal experiences to answer annie's question why many of us won't go to church anymore. The point I was trying to communicate (and did so rather poorly) is the message I have consistently received from the church building is I'm not needed. I can sit, listen and give money and get "plugged in to a life group " ect. or whatever current cliche is in use...but in all reality I'm not needed.
> 
> ...


I want to correct you on a ton of bad points you made in the above post but i will leave it alone.. accept to say - The Bridegroom loves the bride so be careful about talking trash about her


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

My God is a loving God, not a hell fire and brimstone God.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> BTW, guys, bikers pray and some will embarrass most of the traditional "church people."
> 
> I once saw colors that were strange to me. Yikes, these guys made my club look like scrubbed citizens. I didn't see any 1%er patches, but boy these guys looked scary. I asked one of my brothers what "CMA" meant.
> 
> I was shocked when he told me, "_It's stands for the 'Christian Motorcycle Association'..._." Truth be told, clearly some of these guys were former outlaws.


Many years ago a friend invited me to attend a Christian motorcycle rally held on the grounds of Kenneth Copeland Ministries, , at Eagle Mountain lake just north of Fort worth. It was an all weekend event with thousands in attendance, culminating with a walk to the lake and a massive baptism. I saw some of the coolest bikes, the baddest looking characters, and some unbelievable seemingly hard men on fire for their Jesus with some awesome testimonies of redemption.
There was the death of a child at the event one year during one of the motorcycle games during the day, and the event was discontinued. A shame indeed, as it was an awesome weekend.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> My God is a loving God, not a hell fire and brimstone God.


My God is both


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> My God is a loving God, not a hell fire and brimstone God.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

The only thing I ever heard Obummer say that I agreed with;


> "We are no longer a Christian nation."


Looking at our nation through the news, entertainment and people walking down Main St. proves him right. 
Real Christianity is definitely a minority today.


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