# LifeStraw and Sawyer question



## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

I had a question about each...first off why is the LifeStraw Family 1.0 talked about everywhere and very popular, yet the LifeStraw Family 2.0 is never talked about, I can't find any reviews, and all I can do is order it in one location?? It LOOKS awesome and more durable and more superior to the 1.0. What is the big secret for the dead silence in regards to the 2.0? 

And speaking of big secrets...what does Sawyer have some sort of big secret UFO filter technology or something? I can't help but to think about over the top liars that I've known in my life, like the guy who tells you that he can bench press 1,700 lbs. Let me get this straight a $300 military grade Katadyn ceramic filter has a 13,000 gallon lifespan, yet a $50 Sawyer has a ONE MILLION gallon lifespan?? Come on now!! So for those of you who are technical can you please tell me how Sawyer's filter lasts 77 times as long as Katadyn? It is totally a claim that makes your inner red flag go up so if I'm wrong to question them can someone please explain how their filters can possibly be still effective after 900,000 gallons?


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. I got the $174 Keradyn filter and a lifestraw, both proven products.
Amazon.com : Katadyn Combi Microfilter : Camping Water Filters : Sports & Outdoors


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Sawyer uses tech that was developed for kidney dialysis. https://sawyer.com/filters-work/

I don't know much about the otherse, but my brother has used the more highly rated pump filters.

To me it appears the difference is that you "Flush" the sawyer filter occasionally, meaning you purge it by putting clean water through it in reverse to get rid of particulate build ups. I am not sure if you do that with a lifestraw, or if you can do with with the other filters, I think you buy them as fiilter inserts in the others.

So as far as I am aware it lasts longer because you clean it.

I'm not sure if it is safe to put chlorine through a sawyer while flushing it, but when my old sawyer filter got cracked on the plastic outer shell I figured just incase there was buildup or contaminatino inside I would just flush it with bleach to shock it, so I could atleast get a couple more safe uses out of it.

No idea if it is cracked on the inside as I havn't opened up the filter to find out.

Does your lifestraw or the keradyne one get cleaned or is it a use till it stops working.

Katadyn uses disposable filters.. Lifestraw I think may be one way fibres (I could be wrong you might be able to back flush)

Sawyers are designed to back flush. They give syringes with the units to apply water pressure to flush clean water through them (in reverse to the filtering direction)

IMO lifestraw is still good bang for the buck, and if you need a filter for more than a year consider your options.

I like my sawyer mini because I can just attach a bottle right to it and use it like a lifestraw. Overall something is better than nothing if you need it.

It is just a different "nozle type" attachment, and maybe different fibre shape, Sawyer is U shaped filbres it looks similar to the katadyn, look into reusing katadyn filters.

You may ilke to watch this youtube video on cleaning your katadyn filter 



 It may extend it unapproved use life.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

They know you'll never use it 1 million times so they make a crazy claim knowing no one will ever challenge them. With that said, I have a Sawyer for backpacking and it works very well. I have a Lifestraw too for day hikes but have never used it.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Yes, Sawyer filters are actually that good.
They test EVERY SINGLE FILTER 3 times throughout the manufacturing process to ensure they will work as stated.
The don't do statistical assumption based on a handful of filters per batch. Every single one...
They outlast the Lifestraw because they can be backflushed to remove sediment buildup.
The outlast Katadyn because they can be cleaned without removing any of the filtering media.

With respect to their "One Million Gallon Guarantee", they've revised it, and here's why: (from their site)(corrected for typos)


> If you have purchased any of our water filtration products that came with our One Million Gallon Guarantee. We will of course honor that commitment to you.
> However recently that guarantee was challenged by one of our competitors by filing a complaint with the National Advertising Division of the U.S. Better Business Bureau. They challenged our ability to support that claim scientifically. Unfortunately the data which we feel supports the claim contains proprietary information that we are unwilling to share. Therefore while these products are exactly the same, they will now come with a revised warranty; which is a Lifetime Warranty against any manufacturing defects. The filters contain a code such that we will know under which warranty you purchased the product.


 https://sawyer.com/lifetime-warranty/
They do offer many supporting documents as to their filter's effectiveness on their downloads page: https://sawyer.com/technology/downloads/
When compared to a Lifestraw, Sawyer wins handily. I've not researched Katadyn enough to know what their best filtration option is. Knowing their price and knowing their lifetime limitation has been enough to keep me from caring much.

I have a Sawyer PointONE. It will be my primary filter if I find myself without clean running water. I will never need to replace anything on it, and I can pick up a spare for cheap if I happen to break it.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I have used sawyer and msr, filters, both work fine. 

I've not been exposed to viral , but have a sawyer just in case. That or I will boil or use halogens.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well I started out to buy a life straw but after a short around of googling decided the Sawyer had better bang for the buck..so grabbed a couple of those. It seems like on the filtering ability claims the Life straw can snag .2 micron sized critters while. .1 micro is clamed by the Sawyer. Still aint figured out if that is small enough to catch a virus. Maybe somebody will tell us. The claim for the Sawyer is 100 k..not 900 k. Now where they actually work..not sure. I seem to have temporarily misplaced my biohazard testing kit..lol.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> Well I started out to buy a life straw but after a short around of googling decided the Sawyer had better bang for the buck..so grabbed a couple of those. It seems like on the filtering ability claims the Life straw can snag .2 micron sized critters while. .1 micro is clamed by the Sawyer. Still aint figured out if that is small enough to catch a virus. Maybe somebody will tell us. The claim for the Sawyer is 100 k..not 900 k. Now where they actually work..not sure. I seem to have temporarily misplaced my biohazard testing kit..lol.


Neither the Lifestraw or the PointONE Sawyer catch virii.
To do that, you'll need the PointZeroTwo Sawyer, which blocks down to an absolute size of .02 microns.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Thanks, great replies. Great video.



Kauboy said:


> Neither the Lifestraw or the PointONE Sawyer catch virii.
> To do that, you'll need the PointZeroTwo Sawyer, which blocks down to an absolute size of .02 microns.


So let me get this straight if one wanted to be TOTALLY thorough one would run water thru a Katadyn/LifeStraw/PointONE, and then run the water thru a PointZeroTwo, and then run the water thru a carbon filter? Would that 3 part filtration even erase the need to boil if you were in the most questionable water source? The PointZeroTwo will not accomplish what a carbon filter will correct? PointZeroTwo for virus only right?


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

the life straw family series filters out viruses, none of the others do.
except the Berkley's but you can make a berky by using their black filters.
and if they test each sawyer filter then why would I want to buy an used filter? LOL
I think they both are good me I went with the life straw just what I felt comfortable with, I mean if I need to I know how to clean my water and make it drinkable and for the long term I doubt anyone is going to continue slurping water out of one of those.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Steam distillation is how the Lord purifies all that stuff. Maybe that might be a a good plan.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> the life straw family series filters out viruses, none of the others do.
> except the Berkley's but you can make a berky by using their black filters.
> and if they test each sawyer filter then why would I want to buy an used filter? LOL
> I think they both are good me I went with the life straw just what I felt comfortable with, I mean if I need to I know how to clean my water and make it drinkable and for the long term I doubt anyone is going to continue slurping water out of one of those.


Alright we have a LifeStraw guy! So, do you have the Family 2.0?

LifeStraw® Family 2.0

If i were to buy a LifeStraw i'd definately choose that one...but seems like nobody talks about that one



bigwheel said:


> Steam distillation is how the Lord purifies all that stuff. Maybe that might be a a good plan.


That would be ideal but the down side is that you're dependant on power


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> the life straw family series filters out viruses, none of the others do.


Incorrect. The Sawyer PointZeroTwo provides the exact same .02 micron pore size as the Lifestraw Family 2.0.
None of the lower models from either company offer virus protection as their pore sizes are too large.

ILAD, you could use the LSFam2.0 or the Sawyer .02 for all your filtering. If removing organic matter is the goal, both provide the same pore size. They are not *only* for virii, they just have a pore size small enough to block virii, as well as particulates larger than that size.

Now, for chemical removal you would want to consider something in addition to these physical filters.
Carbon filters remove some chemicals. Distilling can remove others. It all depends on the kind of chemical you're trying to remove.
Heavy metals aren't removed by any of these methods and would be your most difficult problem. This is the biggest issue the people along that river in Colorado will have to deal with.
Luckily, EPA *$#% ups notwithstanding, your local water sources shouldn't contain much in the way of dangerous chemicals or heavy metals, unless someone has been dumping into them illegally.

For my setup, I will take care of large particles with coffee filters. Then run the water through the Sawyer .1, then through a container of activated carbon.
This should suffice to clean any of my local water sources.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

If you are removing particulates, start with a melita filter first, or sand. Then go to a bacterial filter. IF SHTF then go to halogen treatment, boil or a purifier. I do not trust UV with any cloudy water.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

They are both great. The advantage the sawyer has is the squeeze bags. You force water through not by sucking on the straw to get a drink but also force filtered water through a squeeze bag into say a pot to boil or water bottles for later. I use a Lifestraw hunting and camping but I know the water sources and it's more of a precaution to be sure. The sawyer to me has the advantage of filtering for future use. So it gets the TC gold star. I don't have one. But my Amazon wish list has 4 on it. I will take one out soon to test it out in the field.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

TacticalCanuck said:


> They are both great. The advantage the sawyer has is the squeeze bags. You force water through not by sucking on the straw to get a drink but also force filtered water through a squeeze bag into say a pot to boil or water bottles for later. I use a Lifestraw hunting and camping but I know the water sources and it's more of a precaution to be sure. The sawyer to me has the advantage of filtering for future use. So it gets the TC gold star. I don't have one. But my Amazon wish list has 4 on it. I will take one out soon to test it out in the field.


I brought a 4-pack of the Sawyer filters. Those go in my various bags. Also have their purifier, but only 1. Some food grade tygon tubing makes the filters more versatile if you have other bags/bottles to connect to. You can make a great gravity feed on the cheap.

In the past I have used MSR ceramic filters and dromedary bags and never had a problem with many years of use. I carry iodine chlorate or boil if I suspect the water is foul.

One problem with all of these is freezing. Either keep them on your person (underarm or groin), or I carry grain alcohol to flush/stabilize. The grain makes a good mix with some powdered lemonade in the evenings after dinner. It also sterilizes the systems.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> For my setup, I will take care of large particles with coffee filters. Then run the water through the Sawyer .1, then through a container of activated carbon.


What is your carbon filter? Is the black Berkey filters the gold standard for carbon filtering if you wanted to go all out (really wish they had a single one piece black Berkey filter like in the shape of Katadyn Pocket). Also that really sucks that heavy metals are beyond filtering, I lean towards buying things that do MORE than I need just on the off chance that one day I might need it.



Mad Trapper said:


> ...or I carry grain alcohol to flush/stabilize. The grain makes a good mix with some powdered lemonade in the evenings after dinner. It also sterilizes the systems.


Lol glad you wrote this I put a couple beers in the freezer 2 hours ago and forgot till I read this


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Sawyer filters also attach to bottles and can be used as in line filters for camelbaks or any other system that uses similar sized hoses.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

My test of the sawyer. Hope it helps.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

I have been waiting to learn more about life straws before buying them. I guess I need to get my fingers going in the right direction and order some.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Yes seems like both products are incredible...It's definitely looking like LS Family 2.0 must be a discontinued idea even LifeStraw's website doesn't list it. I suppose they figured there weren't many middle men who wanted something between the Family 1.0 and the LifeStraw Community. Putting the Sawyer aside for the moment man how about the fact that the price is approximately the same for the Katadyn Pocket and the LifeStraw Community lol

LifeStraw Community | Eartheasy.com

Oh thanks for video Jakthesoldier I'll check it out tomorrow...now i'm watching that show 'Alone' man that's an addicting show


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

It's a darn good show. I need to catch up I'm a week and a half behind


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> My test of the sawyer. Hope it helps.


The adapters are a good investment. There are interesting ways to connect things.

I also purchased 100 ' of food grade 5/16 tygon tubing. With the tubing you can get a good head on a gravity system which speeds things up. I put 4 ' length in all the portable sawyer systems I have.

I also use the tubing to route water at home from rainwater collection, and built a bio-sand (30-gal) to pre-filter collected rainwater.

5/16" is a bit slow for large scale but works great in small applications. If you have a large tank with a good head you can transfer into a large pre-filter pretty fast. That would be my rainwater to my basement, about 12' head. I need to add some storage for winter, which will slow things down, with less head

Ladies, by head, it means height above, which is good for pressure. Added this so not to offend city folks.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> What is your carbon filter?


Mine is literally loose activated carbon. It is packed into a clean PVC tube, roughly 10-12 inches in length, and 2 inches in diameter, with an inlet and outlet on the ends.
No need for fancy or expensive, and with this setup, it's easy to refill.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Mine is literally loose activated carbon. It is packed into a clean PVC tube, roughly 10-12 inches in length, and 2 inches in diameter, with an inlet and outlet on the ends.
> No need for fancy or expensive, and with this setup, it's easy to refill.


How fine is the charcoal, and is there a barrier to the outlet (fine sand)?

I am interested in my own charcoal. I have many acres of hardwood, and for a filter very fine would be best. The bigger for cooking. I think the system would be much like making char cloth. I need to read up on this, charcoal was also used to make steel. We still have kilns in the hills here.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> How fine is the charcoal, and is there a barrier to the outlet (fine sand)?
> 
> I am interested in my own charcoal. I have many acres of hardwood, and for a filter very fine would be best. The bigger for cooking. I think the system would be much like making char cloth. I need to read up on this, charcoal was also used to make steel. We still have kilns in the hills here.


It is the same "activated carbon" that is used in refillable fish tank filters. It is granular, though not like sand. Yes, I will have a filter at the outlet to keep tiny particulates from coming out, though proper preparation would ensure that you flush the system first to allow such loose material to leave before putting it into use.
One thing to keep in mind, if you plan to make your own, is that the "activated" description means the charcoal has undergone a treatment process to increase surface area. Some treatments also cause an ionization of the electrons too. This can help to attract unwanted chemicals to the charcoal, and out of the water.
You can replicate this process on your own by burning out the wood in an oxygen free environment, crushing the resulting charcoal into as fine a grain as you like, and then bathing it in some form of acid while under high heat. (DANGEROUS)
I don't recommend this. Various harmful chemicals can be produced depending on the acid you choose.
Without access to industrial quality equipment, you are unlikely to produce anything that is all that better than straight charcoal. Not to mention the water you'll waste just rinsing the acid out of the media.

That's why I've just elected to stock up on aquarium filter charcoal. Let someone else do the dangerous hard work.
During that failure of an event, "Prime Day", on Amazon, I was able to pick this up for $11: http://www.amazon.com/Marineland-PA...8-4&keywords=aquarium+filter+activated+carbon
Even now, at ~$15, it's still a good deal when compared to bulk activated charcoal powder that starts at $20 for 320z and goes up from there.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> It is the same "activated carbon" that is used in refillable fish tank filters. It is granular, though not like sand. Yes, I will have a filter at the outlet to keep tiny particulates from coming out, though proper preparation would ensure that you flush the system first to allow such loose material to leave before putting it into use.
> One thing to keep in mind, if you plan to make your own, is that the "activated" description means the charcoal has undergone a treatment process to increase surface area. Some treatments also cause an ionization of the electrons too. This can help to attract unwanted chemicals to the charcoal, and out of the water.
> You can replicate this process on your own by burning out the wood in an oxygen free environment, crushing the resulting charcoal into as fine a grain as you like, and then bathing it in some form of acid while under high heat. (DANGEROUS)
> I don't recommend this. Various harmful chemicals can be produced depending on the acid you choose.
> ...


Thank you Kauboy,

I have a pH D in Organic Chemistry but no experience in making carbon filters from scratch ( but I am a Mad Trapper, born in the woods). I feel with my knowledge I can make my own much cheaper. I will explore this and hope to let you know how to make "home grown".

I have used carbon as a _very_ fine powder in my work. One of the things that wonders me , is the acid treatment? I suspect that HCl/muriatic or H2SO4/sulfuric would suffice. Those are readily available at paint stores or automotive stores.

Thank you.

Best , MT

P.S.I will research the chemistry involved.

P.P.S, nasty heat and acids, then washing, required to make industrial grades. BUT common powdered charcoal is quite effective, if sanitary/cooked


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

If that's your background, you'll feel right at home boiling acids. :mrgreen:
Yes, those two compounds are quite common in this process.

For all others, you risk life and limb if you try this. You've been warned.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

I forget where I saw this link I just have it saved, bulk activated charcoal...

http://www.buyactivatedcharcoal.com/charcoal_water_filter

SO...Kauboy, you Amazon link has a few people in the 'Answered questions' section saying you can not use it for drinking water, are they simply misinformed? I'm assuming so since a lot of times these 'Answers' contradict each other.

Can somebody check out my link and let me know which charcoal/mesh would be the best to use to filter drinking water? I get confused at which one I should buy...I'm thinking I should get the Granular Activated Carbon 20x50 from coconut shell, and also the Bone Char 20x60 is aged bone that claims to filter out heavy metals. Thinking I can have a double filter set up. 55 lbs of the coconut charcoal for $178, and the bone charcoals are more expensive at 25 lbs for $195


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> I forget where I saw this link I just have it saved, bulk activated charcoal...
> 
> Granular Activated Charcoal, Activated Charcoal Filters, & Charcoal Water Bottles for Water Purification
> 
> ...


I took a little peek.

For drinking you want food grade/sterile or use the carbon *before* you finally filter/purify. If you use the charcoal before a filter, and use enough with suffificient surface area, that is overkill I mean. It should absorb most the crap but not sterile/safe. Use a filter anyway at the end.

Best bet is a pure source. Grandpa had a mountain spring gravity feed with minimal *crude*filters. 12 children and many nephews and nieces never got sick, nor did the animals.

Birds will poop on your roof so rainwater can hurt you.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> I took a little peek.
> 
> For drinking you want food grade/sterile or use the carbon *before* you finally filter/purify. If you use the charcoal before a filter, and use enough with suffificient surface area, that is overkill I mean. It should absorb most the crap but not sterile/safe. Use a filter anyway at the end.
> 
> ...


Well another thought. If you make your own charcoal, it will be heated enough to kill virus and bacteria. Can you store and/or transfer it without contamination? That is a question, as well as commercial sources.

I did microbiology and biochemistry too, so be careful.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

ah no I have a life straw family 1.0 but it still takes care of viruses
I checked out your link and the community thing look cool but expensive-but I already have a berky lite.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

I would love to see a poll with these choices. Does the OP want to set one up?


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> Well another thought. If you make your own charcoal, it will be heated enough to kill virus and bacteria. Can you store and/or transfer it without contamination? That is a question, as well as commercial sources.
> 
> I did microbiology and biochemistry too, so be careful.


No way I'm a novice, I remember the earlier posts it sounds like you can kill yourself lol. Oh yeah forgot to ask, if you buy a ton of charcoal like the 25 lb bulk, but don't use it and just keep it in the container will it only have a certain shelf life? Or is it filtering use that really degrades it's potency?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> No way I'm a novice, I remember the earlier posts it sounds like you can kill yourself lol. Oh yeah forgot to ask, if you buy a ton of charcoal like the 25 lb bulk, but don't use it and just keep it in the container will it only have a certain shelf life? Or is it filtering use that really degrades it's potency?


If kept in a sealed container, charcoal will remain charcoal until the Lord returns.
There is no "potency". There is no chemical reaction with this stuff. The surface is pitted and ionized. This causes microscopic things to get trapped in the pores. Once the pores are full, you change out the media. You won't be able to see this, but rather have to rely on other signs like the water's taste and odor.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> ah no I have a life straw family 1.0 but it still takes care of viruses
> I checked out your link and the community thing look cool but expensive-but I already have a berky lite.


My mistake. The Family 1.0 and 2.0 both filter down to .02 microns. Either one will filter out a large percentage of potential viruses.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

but none of them will filter out dissolved elements in solution.

Only distillation will guarantee the water you drink is safe.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> If kept in a sealed container, charcoal will remain charcoal until the Lord returns.


That is friggin awesome!!!!

Feel free to bulk buy then!!


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

PaulS said:


> but none of them will filter out dissolved elements in solution.
> 
> Only distillation will guarantee the water you drink is safe.


I don't know, I can pour coffee into the berky and it will make it plain water again. same with t lifestraw family 1.0


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Try that with salt water or better yet with urine. Caution the longer urine sits the more toxic it is.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

The thing i don't get about the Berkey 2x2 filter set up...ok so you have 4 filters (in this example), 2 of them black and 2 of them fluoride/arsenic. Ok the water that passes thru the fluoride filters won't get any black filtering benefits, and the water that passes thru the black filters won't get fluoride filtration!! You'd have to run water thru an all black filter Berkey, then thru an all fluoride/arsenic Berkey.

This is why i keep ranting about a single filter like Katadyn, I'd love to have 3 or 4 singles that filter different things and run my water thru them all

I might get a Travel Berkey as my designated carbon filter, then buy the LifeStraw Community for finer filtration to .02, and have that kitchen set up and just use my Katadyn Pocket outdoors. I'd love a heavy metal Berkey filter!! Like that link i posted with bulk heavy metal charcoal, they should make those filters too

...Edit a few hours later...while I'm spit balling...came across something cool, something that i personally would never buy (overkill) but it appears to be the ultimate, no expense spared portable filter...for someone literally in a living water Hell hole who needs virus protection

http://www.amazon.com/Katadyn-Exstr...iewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

INSANELY expensive it's only good for 200 gallons and it's $35. But if i ever had to visit a mud hut in Africa I'm buying a few of these


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