# Got robbed



## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Well I got robbed today, some asshole kicked in my back door, came in and stole 9 of my guns and $4000 in cash....walked right over a lot of stuff so I'm blessed I suppose but man I sure want my stuff back.

My insurance says that they will only reimburse $200 and only up to $2000 for my guns which will barely cover two of them.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

well that sucks......


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

I think I would have to have a talk with the insurance company....


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Already have slippy. My agent is a friend of mine.....that's what my policy says. Look like I'm screwed.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Hope they find the creeps.

Keep 2 or 3 handy put the rest in the gun safe.


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## Waterguy (Jul 15, 2015)

Such a feeling of violation in that case. Very sorry that you got screwed with. Good reminder for me to update firearm inventory and policy. I hope they catch them and you get your guns back at the very least.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Sorry to hear this. Was there a safe? You know you can get a good safe for about the price of 2 or 3 guns. 
I've had same experience though not as many guns.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

So sorry to hear about the loss, glad it was just material things and no one was injured. This is a good reminder to all of us not to get complacent and take our security seriously. I agree, invest in a good safe before you replace the guns. Do you think it was someone you know since they went after the guns and skipped all the other stuff?


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Clearly theives suck.

Thats odd, why did you have $4000 laying around? Seems like a large pile of cash not to be held in your floor boards.

Also the guns why were they all accessible, rather than stored inaccesibly?

None the less, it happens. I've had multiple home invasions (while I was home), and potentially thefts. Most of the thefts around these parts are small items so its not worth tracking them down, costs more to find those involved than to replace the item. 

I've had over 10000$ US stolen from me prior. Seriously damaged me, as part of it was student loans that had to be repaid before I could resume studies x2 (As the loan had to be repaid and the school the loan was earmarked to go to). I can identify with your situation.

At the end of the day it is stuff. It is more the fact you were victimized than loosing stuff you don't really need to live anyway.

Did you dust for prints or do any forensics collection?


They have services that you can send samples in for DNA privately these days.

If you are a good person I hope the people who did it to you suffer.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Will2 said:


> .....
> 
> Did you dust for prints or do any forensics collection?
> 
> ...


Wow Canada does some strange stuff if victims need to dust for prints and collect DNA. Is self collected evidence admissible in court in Canada?

So if he isn't a good person it is okay that he was robbed and the scum that did this shouldn't suffer?


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

The guns weren't in a safe, they were in my regular gun cabinet. I have been wanting a good safe and had plans to get one this black Friday.

The cash was my wife's ( she was planning to get a pool put in) it was in our safe but the lock was messed up (I know I know) we live in a very rural community with low crime. Most of the time we leave the doors un locked anyway. I routinely leave my key in my truck with the doors unlocked BC we're just an old farming community.

That's all changed now and I've learned some valuable lessons.

The sheriff's office got prints from my house and the house 3 miles down the road that got robbed too. I gave them all my serial numbers as well.

I don't think they knew me, if they had they would have known there were some guns way more valuable than the ones they got here and my truck was at my sisters a half mile down the road so they would have seen it and not broken in.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Not trying to be a smartass here, but if you have a door that can be kicked in, your problem is not that you don't have a safe. You need to increase the security of the perimeter of your house. What would have happened if your wife had been home alone when he (or they) broke in, and they were armed? And if you want to own valuable guns and keep cash outside of a safe, you need to increase the security of your mindset, too. Unlocked doors and safes are... Well, I guess you know now.

You can purchase a rider on your insurance policy to cover all your guns, jewelry, and collectibles. It's expensive. Cash can never be insured to my knowledge.

Delay the pool. Better doors first.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

that sucks is right ,, but your friend should have gotten you better insurance ,, that's what friends do .


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Sucks. Very sorry that happened to you. For others wishing to avoid such staggering losses, look into a company called Collectibles Insurance. For less than $100 per year I have over 12K in coverage for my firearms and such. Better yet, they don't require any descriptions or s/n's be revealed. Only in the event of a claim will you have to provide specifics.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Another reason to join the NRA for good gun insurance. No giving serial numbers to insurance company. Just pick the dollar amount of coverage you need and pay the premium. Who would of thought that someone would make it so easy.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Don't take it as being a smart ass SK, you are 100% correct. Laxness on my part and if I had went ahead and done a few of the things I've thought about doing this would not have happened.

Lessons learned and I appreciate the advice. I hope others learn.


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## essdub (Feb 13, 2016)

Oh man that stinks. 
While I agree that there were additional steps you could have taken to prevent or reduce the thefts, You aren't the one who decided to force your way into someone else's home and take their stuff without permission. 
Yes you could have and maybe should have done more to protect your personal property. But even if you had, something would have happened, maybe something even worse, when worthless trash broke into your house. 
Do all the things that were suggested here, sure. But don't beat yourself up too much . 
I live in a rural area and rarely locked my doors either until recently. 
No break ins here but I've noticed more traffic and a lot of it is teenagers spinning tires and making lots of noise in their trucks. Being stupid teenagers. I don't trust them now, but they were good children a couple years ago. Everyone changes in their teens, I hope they find their way without screwing up


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## PCH5150 (Jun 15, 2015)

Sorry to hear that bud. I need to look into my insurance policy as well. With any luck the thief will shoot himself in the foot with one of your guns.


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## Kumarkalliente (May 1, 2015)

Having seen my father go through the same thing when I was a small child. I completely understand all your worries. Learn how to make slips for your cash( and 4 gs is a bit much to keep on hand but that's my opinion) I will never own a gun safe. 90 % of people keep the key within 6 feet of the safe so they dont lose it and the ones with keypads if its not on the safe its written down within sight unless you keep the stock number then i think its the last digits of the serial code and then there is the factory reset code. but apologizes for the side rant. Screw the insurance company If they are only giving you $200 for $4000 that is 1.25% of the money you had. so when your house floods are they only going to dry 1.25% of your house? you need to fight that. And Price your guns. Then find out how much your deductable is. See what percent they with cover in your policy. Add up the 4000 grand to the prices you found for your guns and whatever else they stole and add it all up and take the insurance companies percentage amount and take that from your total and subtract you deductable that is the amount they should be getting to you since they are covering it at all. That total also needs to have the damage to the door and other things that you are claiming. It sounds to me like you insurance company is trying to close your case as fast as possible


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## Joe Smith (Aug 21, 2015)

Hello,
I have undergone the same ordeal so can understand. As someone mentioned-Are you a member of the NRA? They do have insurance as a member of the organization. I do not know the exact amount but you are covered in case of theft or injury related to travel to and from gun related events IIRC. If you are a member-contact them, if you are not then now is a good time to join.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

The NRA provides $2500 per household member FREE!
Ladies and gentleman, Insure your firearms, home owners, usually doesn't cover them without a rider policy!


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Sorry to hear man! The thought of having to Beef up my doors and windows is something that keeps me awake at night, I did get a commercial fire door from a family member, that I am going to zinc prime and paint white for our new back door! Only problem is I lose my window on the back door! But times are tough, crime is up here in central Alberta! And if it helps me sleep at night with peace of mind! Then I am okay with a few sacrifices! But it's a story of unfortunate events that we can all learn from! Sorry it happened but thanks for sharing!


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

So sorry to hear about that. I have a high dollar model under the bed that I worry about a lot. Gonna get up some energy to get it ridered onto the insurance one of these days. Thanks for the memory jogger on that.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Auntie said:


> Wow Canada does some strange stuff if victims need to dust for prints and collect DNA. Is self collected evidence admissible in court in Canada?


Well the problem is police likely will not do a full forensic analysis for a B&E theft case. They very well may for a more serious crime like rape or murder. In Canada they may for a theft of that number of guns though.
The benefit of collecting forensic evidence if police do not is that you yourself have evidence which may be useful in the future, as you should know who you have had in your home and who you have not. Anyone with basic P.I. training can know the benefit. With time it is highly likely DNA databases will continue to increase in size, which means at some future point you may be able to identify who the thief was. Police may consider the evidence, but as far as criminal court goes the forensic evidence you collect may not be admissible in court because of chain of custody issues. You could heavily document the way you collect and store evidence however which depending on the judge they might consider forensic evidence collected in a professional and secure, non tamper basis. You know video taping the collection keeping it in sealed bags that are kept in a secure location, where no one else has access etc.. You want to have atleast the level police use in chain of custody of anything you collect. A good police office will take the evidence you collect for the crime report and consider it in their investigation. Since Robbery and B&E people tend to be repeat criminals who grow in level of offence, if not on record now they may get caught in the future and linked to the crime. Tons of people have prints in various databases these days and it is only a matter of time before access barriers get removed. So if you manage to lift some prints off a sloppy theif, example if the guns were kept in a closet, they using the door handle or your front door if you clean it regularly getting prints could be relatively easy. Keep your house clean and getting prints will be easier. vacuuming with a clean vacuum could collect loose hairs etc.. look into forensics and you might get lucky with getting some samples.

In a civil case it could be, but again there is a BEST EVIDENCE rule in Canada, its much like the US.

It is not technically inadmissable but in a criminal case evidence is highly scrutinized, so you want to insure a professional level in treatment of evidence, and obtain 'expert' witnesses where possible to reinforce the validity of any evidence you submit. It could be admissable, but may not be.



> So if he isn't a good person it is okay that he was robbed and the scum that did this shouldn't suffer?


I have no sympathy for people I consider evil people. I think that much like John Newton's time in slavery, people can suffer divine punishment to for them, non predestination, gives them an opportunity to change their lives for the better, so as to recognize the pain their harm has caused. That is the whole point of retribution whether in the justice system or from society at large. I don't support victimizing innocent people of course, however, people who are evil, who victimize others deserve no sympathy if they themselves do not provide it on humane and innocent people.

So yes most definitely, I have a seed of evil, from when my humanity has been raped from me through victimizations. Treat the good well and destroy evil to remove the taint.

Is that fault finding enough.

I am not out there to get vigilante justice against others but I am not going to feel sorry for a rapist if his balls get shot off, or if a murderer looses a leg when he is captured. You don't seek out those things but at the end of the day evil people deserve no sympathy.

Low level property crimes eat up more resources the cost of incarcerating etc. is just so high there is almost no benefit until there are multiple instances or they get caught in the act based upon policing. In fact police should be collecting forensic evidence, in fact though training of police is so poor and detective resources are so limited in many areas, the full forensic collection and analysis is earmarked to priority offenses not petty thefts. Theft under $5000 is not treated as seriously as felonious thefts. In fact I would say what happened was a felony and should be treated seriously and police resources should be assigned for forensic analysis. In Canada it would be a serious offense because of the theft of firearms. However why you had a few thousand in cash laying around where it could be picked up would be suspect, often you see that sort of thing with low level drug dealers.

This is also not to say all criminals are evil, but that some criminals and even people with clean records can be. Hopefully you understand clear enough I hate people without decency and respect of humanity and the human condition.

I think it is weak selfish people who through their own bad character resort to victimizing others for personal satisfaction. It is very complex and I don't think a more indepth reply is really suited to this thread.

Yes I don't feel sorry for evil people. Also don't confuse bad and evil, they are two different things. Bad is doing thing that isn't good, evil is going against what is considered good with intent, disposition or nature with awareness of that fact to remove any inclination of innocence. Someone who does a bad thing is not necessarily evil. Evil only exists when their nature is to go against what is good with intent, while being evil is knowing you are going against what is good.

So you 
1. can do a bad thing but arn't evil (no intent in act) (these people are innocents)
2. do an evil thing but not be evil (intent in act but not to go against good) (these people have convictions but are not evil people if they act for what is good)
3. be evil (go against what is good) (these people are evil)


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

My deepest sympathies. I can only imagine the sense of being violated. I am so glad 
to be out of ILLannoyed. I will have to look into a rider for my firearms, if I ever get 
any more after the fiasco when I lost them all in the Mississippi on the way to AZ.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

ffparamedic said:


> The guns weren't in a safe, they were in my regular gun cabinet. I have been wanting a good safe and had plans to get one this black Friday.
> 
> The cash was my wife's ( she was planning to get a pool put in) it was in our safe but the lock was messed up (I know I know) we live in a very rural community with low crime. Most of the time we leave the doors un locked anyway. I routinely leave my key in my truck with the doors unlocked BC we're just an old farming community.
> 
> ...


This is good to hear prints were taken. The thing people should be aware in home security is if you put things in places people will look for them then it is easier to steal for those things. Learning a little about smuggling will give you an idea on how you can hide things but it not be easily recognizable as a place to take wealth or a valuable from. There is also the complexity issue. The safe adds complexity if they need to cut it open, it also takes technical skill, or strength if it needs to be removed at heavy weight. If you build in a doorway to where your safe is so it can't be removed due to its size again this is good, but anything that is able to be moved out of a room and into the back of a truck better have a tracking device in it, otherwise it is just a matter of carrying it away, if it ain't bolted down and weighs over 500lbs goodluck. In fact the safe is where you should rig the high decibel alarm to, or have the GPS embedded item that looks valuable such as a fake gold item etc.. that is in fact a GPS device. Leaving your valuable where people will look for valuables is the last thing a security conscious person will do.

Thieves will take a small safe and open it later if it isn't too heavy. Especially if they are coming onto a remote property, either they live nearby or they are using a vehicle so if it weighs less than 100lbs it is gone.

In addition to print you might collect soil samples, or boot prints look for tracks, such as foot or tire tracks etc.. there is a lot more that could be done other than just prints which could help solve the crime.

Not sure if you are a member of any hunting clubs etc... however it sounds like you were targeted. Anywhere your info is posted online or people know you have guns is a good first start.

You might want to check phone records to.

Thieves can call a landline, you know if you are listed in the phone book with an old fashioned publicly listed phone number, or perhaps you are listed in an online database as a ham etc.. those or good signs if you have a publically accessible club membership of some sort it could be used for thefts.

Do you and the other guy who got hit have anything in common.

Do you have a bumper sticker, or anything posted on your mailbox?

Did you sign any petitions recently?

Was your address published anywhere online, or your name published anywhere online, which could be linked to an address in a telephone book?

Did you order anything online that is used in a firearm?

Ebay, gun shop etc..?

Did both you and the other guy buy from the same place recently anything firearm related through the mail?

Some criminals can use shipping info if not POBOX to create a burglary list. It seems like a legitimate business but organized crime then uses those sales lists to target addresses.

You know it is likely just a random hit where you were a little sloppy with your home security plan, especially for your firearms.

But who knows maybe there is a link.

It would be sort of unthinkable if you were both members of a lodge and their was a theif in your midst, or some other club. Rural areas everyone knows everyone.

Without a cover it is surprising you would be hit, ex. travelling sales people, people pulling into multiple drive ways.

YOu don't just drive up some random farmers house and break into his house, farm families can be home a lot of time so they'd either have to do local surveillance or know your habits somehow.

There is a lot of organized crime out there.

Also if you are trying to stay anonymous since many crime reports can be published these days you might want to be careful about sharing the dates of offences, along with your location as only a certain number of crime reports will happen on a specific day in a specific area meaning sharing the date you reported you were robbed to police can be used to locate you if your specific town is known.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

damn that sucks. The guns are bad enough but the cash makes it even worse. I used to always worry about someone breaking in and taking my valuables. Once the value of my guns got about $2500 I refused to buy any more until after I got a decent gun safe. I also added some cameras to the property since you can't keep everything in the safe.

One of my worries is that someone will show up and force me to open the safe so I keep a pistol close to it. Most of the cameras on the property are hard to see but I put 2 of them where they were easy to see. When someone on the property asks about them I always tell them there are several others so they never know if they are being recorded.

Living out in the country like I do is no guarantee of low crime. Last month there were over 40 UTVs, ATV, and small trailers stolen in the area so we are all on high alert now and even my riding lawnmower is chained up.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

A chain won't stop an organized theif, they will have bolt cutters to cut through simple padlocks and chains.

It does add to the complexity but a mobile thief probably has a tool box in their vehicle.

Physical deterents are only time deterents. That is why burglar systems not only prevent but also notify and monitor. 

You know the extra 100$ for a tracking device on a 3000$ ATV isn't a bad go. Not only can it be used for theft but also in event that you get injured while riding.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

A chain won't stop an organized theif, they will have bolt cutters to cut through simple padlocks and chains, or a hacksaw, or other such device. We are talking a 10 second delay.

It does add to the complexity but a mobile thief probably has a tool box in their vehicle.

Physical deterents are only time deterents. That is why burglar systems not only prevent but also notify and monitor. 

You know the extra 100$ for a tracking device on a 3000$ ATV isn't a bad go. Not only can it be used for theft but also in event that you get injured while riding.


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## Plumbum (Feb 1, 2016)

Sry to hear that, when we got robbed 2y ago atleast the insurance covered the full amount.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

That sucks but at least your not starting again from scratch and the police got some evidence that can link them to the crime. Don't lose hope in law enforcement catching up with these guys and recovering your property, it does happen. Its also good you where able to provide those serial numbers so the guns can be entered into NCIC, guns get recovered all the time.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The little bride thinks we are covered last I checked.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Insurance - National Firearms Association
Found this for the Canucks on the forum!


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Deleted a double post!!


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

Good night man I'm sorry to hear that. I worry about the very thing a lot. I don't have the money to spare for a safe. I can barely afford to pay attention. There's a few places around the house I think I can hide stuff. I hope they catch the snakes that did this.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

A very good dog, some locks and safes to slow them down. Number one is make sure they know the man that lives there will kill you with out any regret. If you get away he will hunt to the ends of the earth and kill you.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

ffparamedic said:


> Well I got robbed today, some asshole kicked in my back door, came in and stole 9 of my guns and $4000 in cash....walked right over a lot of stuff so I'm blessed I suppose but man I sure want my stuff back.
> 
> My insurance says that they will only reimburse $200 and only up to $2000 for my guns which will barely cover two of them.


Totally sucks, although the odds is extremely slim, here's hoping you get all, or at least most of your stuff back.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Thanks all, I'll post answers to questions as soon as I have time again.

I'm hoping my LE can get to them first but in the meantime I'm hunting as well. I don't like a thief and I want my stuff back.


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## T-Man 1066 (Jan 3, 2016)

ffparamedic said:


> I'm hoping my LE can get to them first but in the meantime I'm hunting as well. I don't like a thief and I want my stuff back.


I understand that! I felt the same way after my break in. Except the cops caught the guy in my garage, then later I found his truck on my property. I have his address, and have thoughts of giving him a visit. But I try to keep a cool head, as I don't need to get arrested for a bit of just deserts.

Keep your head level, don't end up being in trouble yourself.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Oh no I'd never take the law into my own hands unless forced to on my own property.....I'd sure not post about it on an open forum. I will assist them in catching them anyway I can.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Same thing happened to a nearby family. They made a detailed list and printed up a bunch of flyers. Hung them lll over town at places like the feed store, gas stations, pawn shops, etc. Offered a cash award for any info leading to a prosecution. They got their guns back thanks to the pawn shop and the theif is in jail.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

ffparamedic said:


> Thanks all, I'll post answers to questions as soon as I have time again.
> 
> I'm hoping my LE can get to them first but in the meantime I'm hunting as well. I don't like a thief and I want my stuff back.


Play it smart stay the victim , don't end up charged as the aggressor.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Update: my Sheriff office has recovered 3 of my guns. They may have the guy who broke in as well.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Outstanding!


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## coates776 (Sep 4, 2015)

Here in Australia guns must be in a safe. It got me thinking about how easily they or it penetrated your house. In a shtf scenario your house would appear to be easy picking.

There has been a 1000% increase in theft in our town mainly cars.

Did you have alarms or cameras.? How did the find the cash.

Has got me thinking, I have an alarm in my house but a pain as the cat sets it of. Time I got thinking about outside survallence.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

ffparamedic said:


> Update: my Sheriff office has recovered 3 of my guns. They may have the guy who broke in as well.


Glad to hear about at least partial recovery. If they do have the guy, is it someone you know?


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

Not even close, if it is him he's a thug that lives about 55 miles away.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Sometimes it really is random. Much more often it is someone you know, or someone that you know, knows them...


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Now if there is any justice . If he is the one he should not only be charged with the robbery, he should also get 20 years for having the weapons he stole .
My bet is the Guy don't get much time.


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## ffparamedic (Dec 14, 2015)

The Sheriff's office got his phone records and prints and have arrested him. They have recovered the state issue computer and two more guns. Still haven't recovered my grandpa's rifle yet though. The fool still had a pic on his cellphone of all my items.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

ffparamedic said:


> Well I got robbed today, some asshole kicked in my back door, came in and stole 9 of my guns and $4000 in cash....walked right over a lot of stuff so I'm blessed I suppose but man I sure want my stuff back.
> 
> My insurance says that they will only reimburse $200 and only up to $2000 for my guns which will barely cover two of them.


So sorry to hear about that. We put our insurance company through the paces here while back. The Warden claims they will cover 40 Ks worth of whaever is missing. They dont need no pics..itemized list ect. If shes lying she is liable to wind up on the Moon with Alice Kramden. Ditch your insurance company and try this one. They do not mind people to have big dogs. 
Germania Insurance Quotes - VGW Texas


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Excellent news! Hopefully the threat of having to pay restitution will make him roll on where your unrecovered property is.


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## DARK1 (Oct 4, 2014)

Glad to hear of at least a partial recovery of your property. This was my new insurance policy .


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