# Cops need to carry Epipens!!



## thunderdrummer (May 26, 2014)

I am just curious if anyone here saw that story in the news not too long ago. It went like this. A girl was rushing her boyfriend to the hospital because of an allergic reaction. Her boyfriend did not have his epipen at the time. A cop pulled over the car because of speeding. This poor girl was so shaken trying to explain to this stupid ass cop that her boyfriend was having an allergic reaction. This girl was begging the cop to let them go because the hospital was only a couple of miles away. This cop made them wait there for while he called an ambulance. While they were waiting, the boyfriend died!! 

This really pissed me off. Did anyone else hear about this? I have an Epipen myself and thank god i have never had to use it. I am just curious what all of you think about this story.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Most states, if not all require a prescription for an Epi-pen. I doubt if too many officers would want the added liability. 
I'm sure there is a lot more to this story, mainly how far down was the boyfriend, was the girl friend endangering others, etc.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I saw that one. Evidently he would have died no matter what and the video of her driving left little doubt had he not died from an allergic reaction they both would have died in the crash. Maybe, in the end, the Cop saved her life?

Nah, I'm kidding, all Cops are monsters.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Sorry the guy died but sometimes mother nature is just thinning the herd. I hate to sound callous about anyone dying but the people in question seem to have had a hand in his demise. First of all if you have the possibility of severe reaction that could cause death you NEVER don't have your epipen. It's like going boating without a life jacket. Secondly she should have just kept driving. As long as she wasn't being super reckless the cop would've just followed her the short distance left to the hospital. They then could have straightened it out there as he received treatment. If it were me I'd take the ticket or the jail time to save my girlfriends life.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

I carry an epipen (2 actually) and If I left it at home for some reason and was rushing to the hospital and a cop tried to pull me over, I would not stop. I would make it to the hospital and I would be on the phone with the hospital the entire time letting them know I am on my way.

I was normal up until 5 years ago when I was eating the same brand of mixed nuts I have always eaten (ate half the can the day before) I had a few cashews and some almonds and started itching all over real bad. It was time to go home so I got in the car and started driving the 30 mile trip home. I called my wife because I didnt know what was going on and her mom was a nurse. She said that I was having an allergic reaction to the nuts and I should pull over and gets some benidril from the store.

I told her that it was bad and I was not going to stop, She asked if I had any thing weird with my skin... I looked and said yeah I have these welt things all over so she said she would call right back and got the ER on the phone and let them know I was coming in. When I got there I could hardly walk because of being so swollen every where and just about passing out. Luckally my wife came in right behind me and told them what was going on because I couldnt get it out.

When they did the blood pressure cuff thing on me it was so low that my veins were collapsing from lack of pressure and if I would have stopped any where on the road along the way, I would have died... They were very surprised that I survived that long anyway.

Now I know that It was not smart to try to drive in that condition but in my defence, I didnt know what was happening at the time. It was a Life Changing experience.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Cops are people. They do really stupid things at times. Not helping someone get to the hospital would be high on the list of stupid things to do.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

thunderdrummer said:


> I am just curious if anyone here saw that story in the news not too long ago. It went like this. A girl was rushing her boyfriend to the hospital because of an allergic reaction. Her boyfriend did not have his epipen at the time. A cop pulled over the car because of speeding. This poor girl was so shaken trying to explain to this stupid ass cop that her boyfriend was having an allergic reaction. This girl was begging the cop to let them go because the hospital was only a couple of miles away. This cop made them wait there for while he called an ambulance. While they were waiting, the boyfriend died!!
> 
> This really pissed me off. Did anyone else hear about this? I have an Epipen myself and thank god i have never had to use it. I am just curious what all of you think about this story.


I wish cops could carry entire drugstores with them. Or maybe even liquor stores because when I get pulled over by the fuzz, I usually want a drink afterwards. Or maybe cops could carry extra gas with them? My truck has a 30+ gallon gas tank and once I was low on fuel and a cop stopped me, maybe he could have filled me up and checked the oil? 
I've never been stopped by a cop because I was speeding to the restroom to drop a deuce, but it would be nice if cops had extra toilet paper with them...or maybe if they towed a trailer with a Johnny on the Spot Porta-John behind their patrol car, they could just allow us to use it if we have an "emergency" crap situation. That's what I want cops to have with them.
Nice thread by the way.


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## turbo6 (Jun 27, 2014)

That sort of thing only works for pregnant women I think. Otherwise you're screwed.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

While I am very sorry to hear the young man passed on, . . . whenever Cop / Stop stories get questioned, . . . I remember one from some 40 years ago out on West Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio.

Guy was speeding like a banshee, . . . officer pulled him over, . . . 

Quick thinking, . . . he told his girlfriend / wife to put the cushion under her jacket, . . . look like she was pregnant and in great pain, . . . and the cop bought the story.

He told them to go ahead, . . . but not recklessly, . . . and pulled in behind them to "help" her into the ER.

Yeah, . . . the pillow fell out as they were going through the ER, . . . 

I'm still smiling as I recall this one, . . . and as you may have already guessed, . . . it did not turn out well for the driver.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

So, the cop has an epi-pen, injects the young man, but it is too late and the patient dies anyway.
What do you think the girlfriend will do when contacted by greedy lawyers?


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> So, the cop has an epi-pen, injects the young man, but it is too late and the patient dies anyway.
> What do you think the girlfriend will do when contacted by greedy lawyers?


Ummm....ohhhh...oohhhh...I know this ...hold on..don't tell me.....


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

thunderdrummer said:


> I am just curious if anyone here saw that story in the news not too long ago. It went like this. A girl was rushing her boyfriend to the hospital because of an allergic reaction. Her boyfriend did not have his epipen at the time. A cop pulled over the car because of speeding. This poor girl was so shaken trying to explain to this stupid ass cop that her boyfriend was having an allergic reaction. This girl was begging the cop to let them go because the hospital was only a couple of miles away. This cop made them wait there for while he called an ambulance. While they were waiting, the boyfriend died!!
> 
> This really pissed me off. Did anyone else hear about this? I have an Epipen myself and thank god i have never had to use it. I am just curious what all of you think about this story.[/QUOTE
> 
> Sorry the young man died. However the girl instead of trying to transport him herself should have dialed 911 and explained the situation in a calm manner. Most rescue squads would have been able to stabilize the young man and would have definitely recognized the signs of the ana shock.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Sorry the fella died.but,if you are allergic,its YOUR responsibility to carry your epipen.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I wish cops could carry entire drugstores with them. Or maybe even liquor stores because when I get pulled over by the fuzz, I usually want a drink afterwards. Or maybe cops could carry extra gas with them? My truck has a 30+ gallon gas tank and once I was low on fuel and a cop stopped me, maybe he could have filled me up and checked the oil?
> I've never been stopped by a cop because I was speeding to the restroom to drop a deuce, but it would be nice if cops had extra toilet paper with them...or maybe if they towed a trailer with a Johnny on the Spot Porta-John behind their patrol car, they could just allow us to use it if we have an "emergency" crap situation. That's what I want cops to have with them.
> Nice thread by the way.


The gas from the cops is not all that far fetched. Used to have a hypo Sgt who had his fuel pump rigged up with a hose so he could pump out a gallon or two in order to get stranded motorists back on the road. I can recall a couple of times giving folks a quart or two of oil. We always carried some around in the trunk. Courtesy...Service..and Protection is the motto. Dont even get me started on helping folks to change flat tires.


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## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> The gas from the cops is not all that far fetched. Used to have a hypo Sgt who had his fuel pump rigged up with a hose so he could pump out a gallon or two in order to get stranded motorists back on the road. I can recall a couple of times giving folks a quart or two of oil. We always carried some around in the trunk. Courtesy...Service..and Protection is the motto. Dont even get me started on helping folks to change flat tires.


And you "act" like a tough guy...I knew you were a teddy bear!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Cops carrying epi-pens would be a very bad idea.

If you have one, you know why. If you don't, you should learn, pronto.
Epi-pens are by prescription only for a very good reason. They are customized dosages for the intended patient.
Too little, and you get no help. Too much, and there's a chance of death.
A cop should NOT be expected to know the right dosage for a 30-something year old male weighing 150lbs, or anybody else.

The GF should have called 911, plain and simple.

Unless you or a family member requires one, you shouldn't carry one.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I absolutely disagree with the advice to call 911. Aside from the delay you would expect, in my jurisdiction the first response is from a cop, who then decides whether to roll the ambulance, and of course he has the right to enter your house, etc. So if the cop decides the call is whatever hallucination he has instead of a roll the ambulance situation, you're still waiting while he searches your house, etc.

In the meantime you could have gotten to the hospital.

I could foresee calling 911 if I couldn't lift the patient to get him to the car, . . . Maybe. More likely I am going to get the patient into my car and head for the emergency room.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> I absolutely disagree with the advice to call 911. Aside from the delay you would expect, in my jurisdiction the first response is from a cop, who then decides whether to roll the ambulance, and of course he has the right to enter your house, etc. So if the cop decides the call is whatever hallucination he has instead of a roll the ambulance situation, you're still waiting while he searches your house, etc.
> 
> In the meantime you could have gotten to the hospital.
> 
> I could foresee calling 911 if I couldn't lift the patient to get him to the car, . . . Maybe. More likely I am going to get the patient into my car and head for the emergency room.


So your jurisdiction doesn't follow the state guidelines?

http://www.state.nj.us/911/home/highlights/2009EMDGuidecards.pdf

Or are you just making this up as you go along?


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

Diver said:


> I absolutely disagree with the advice to call 911. Aside from the delay you would expect, in my jurisdiction the first response is from a cop, who then decides whether to roll the ambulance, and of course he has the right to enter your house, etc. So if the cop decides the call is whatever hallucination he has instead of a roll the ambulance situation, you're still waiting while he searches your house, etc.
> 
> In the meantime you could have gotten to the hospital.
> 
> I could foresee calling 911 if I couldn't lift the patient to get him to the car, . . . Maybe. More likely I am going to get the patient into my car and head for the emergency room.


In your jurisdiction maybe, but in other places that's not the case and for the most part when someone is having a medical emergency it's ALWAYS better to call 911. Speaking as a paramedic I'm able to not only give epinephrine but IV benedryl, two medications that can and do reverse allergic reations. Likewise if it's REALLY bad I can and have intubated people in the field so their airway stays open. To many times I've seen people with serious medical emergencies try to drive themselves in and even still get delayed care, when the people who don't have the medical emergencies use my ambulance as a taxi. I have the training, resources, medical authority, and equipment needed to save a life. Likewise I have red blinky lights and state laws that allow me to operate a vehicle in an emergent manner and again the training to do so safely.

I've heard NJ EMS is kind of backwards so I don't blame you for thinking this way. But it's the exception rather than the rule when it comes to most other places.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> So your jurisdiction doesn't follow the state guidelines?
> 
> http://www.state.nj.us/911/home/highlights/2009EMDGuidecards.pdf
> 
> Or are you just making this up as you go along?


Cops follow state law? That's a hoot. What I described is what actually happens. Once you call 911 and tell them you need am ambulance, a cop, with no more medical training than I have, will show up. You cannot refuse admittance to your house. Once he determines the ambulance is needed and radios it in they may roll the ambulance.

The hospital is about 3 miles away and I can get there faster than this whole process and I don't need to rely on the cop getting it right.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

Diver said:


> Cops follow state law? That's a hoot. What I described is what actually happens. Once you call 911 and tell them you need am ambulance, a cop, with no more medical training than I have, will show up. You cannot refuse admittance to your house. Once he determines the ambulance is needed and radios it in they may roll the ambulance.
> 
> The hospital is about 3 miles away and I can get there faster than this whole process and I don't need to rely on the cop getting it right.


Are you speaking from actual first hand experience of calling 911 and a cop showing up then requesting an ambulance or from a "I heard if from this one guy," be "that one guy," be an actual guy or something like a news report? You also say the hospital is 3 miles away. What kind of hospital is it? They're not all created equal. Is it a registered trauma center? Does it have a 24 hour cardiac cath lab? Is there a neuorsurgeon on call 24/7 in case of critical trauma? Do they have the ability to rapidly diagnose and treat a stroke or heart attack patient? Is it a gloried urgent care center and even though it may say "Emergency" outside do they still have to transfer their most critical patients to other hospitals for the actual definitive care? Most EMT's and Paramedics know these things and can get a patient to where they need to be faster even if that hospital is not necessarily the closest one.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

warrior4 said:


> Are you speaking from actual first hand experience of calling 911 and a cop showing up then requesting an ambulance or from a "I heard if from this one guy," be "that one guy," be an actual guy or something like a news report? You also say the hospital is 3 miles away. What kind of hospital is it? They're not all created equal. Is it a registered trauma center? Does it have a 24 hour cardiac cath lab? Is there a neuorsurgeon on call 24/7 in case of critical trauma? Do they have the ability to rapidly diagnose and treat a stroke or heart attack patient? Is it a gloried urgent care center and even though it may say "Emergency" outside do they still have to transfer their most critical patients to other hospitals for the actual definitive care? Most EMT's and Paramedics know these things and can get a patient to where they need to be faster even if that hospital is not necessarily the closest one.


Actual experience as well as discussions with the local chief of police. Note that in the jurisdiction that my elderly father resides a call for an ambulance will result in an ambulance and they are very quick. It depends entirely on where you live and the practice there.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

Like I said, I don't blame you for thinking this way based on your experience and from what I've heard about how EMS in NJ operates. My main point is that for the most part it IS better to call 911 and have someone like me who is trained on how to deal with medical emergencies deal with them. After all I don't show up at other peoples workplaces and tell them how to do the job they've been doing for years, but it seems that because people "saw it on TV" they think they know how to do mine. Not that I'm saying you're like that Diver, the last sentence was more of a generalized notion.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver: Just what city do you live in? Just curious why your city is different than the way state protocol is laid down.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

warrior4 said:


> Like I said, I don't blame you for thinking this way based on your experience and from what I've heard about how EMS in NJ operates. My main point is that for the most part it IS better to call 911 and have someone like me who is trained on how to deal with medical emergencies deal with them. After all I don't show up at other peoples workplaces and tell them how to do the job they've been doing for years, but it seems that because people "saw it on TV" they think they know how to do mine. Not that I'm saying you're like that Diver, the last sentence was more of a generalized notion.


One needs to know what will happen when you call 911. In my father's jurisdiction (another state) if you ask for an ambulance you will get an ambulance, and the EMT'S are really good. I have used them to get my elderly father to the hospital at 4:00 am. Fantastic service. Never saw a cop through the whole thing, which was fine, because it was an entirely medical issue and we got what we needed.

Here my rather heavyset sister in law collapsed in our house, when I was not there, so my rather small wife called 911 and asked for an ambulance. The process rolled out as I described above. It all depends on your local situation, so you need to know what will happen before you make that call in the middle of an emergency. The last thing you want is a bunch of delay in the middle of a medical emergency.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Diver: Just what city do you live in? Just curious why your city is different than the way state protocol is laid down.


That boy sounds a lot like one of them pesky McCoys.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Diver: Just what city do you live in? Just curious why your city is different than the way state protocol is laid down.


I am absolutely not going to break OPSEC by giving you that sort of detail about myself. We've been around that subject before and nothing has changed on that score.

What I will tell you is that I know a fair number of retired cops whose universal complaint is that the cops now operating in the area don't know the law or the state protocols. If they don't know the law or the protocols, it shouldn't be a big shock that they don't follow them.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> I am absolutely not going to break OPSEC by giving you that sort of detail about myself. We've been around that subject before and nothing has changed on that score.
> 
> What I will tell you is that I know a fair number of retired cops whose universal complaint is that the cops now operating in the area don't know the law or the state protocols. If they don't know the law or the protocols, it shouldn't be a big shock that they don't follow them.


I think Sarge's point is, when you call 911, *their* protocol will determine who is sent to you, not the officer's.
If the situation warrants a medical response, the 911 operator dispatches them, not the local PD.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

See I used to work in a jurisdiction where dispatch handled fire ems and police. However since the police were the only ones that were 24/7 and the fire and ems were volunteers. the police were always dispatched along with whatever other folks got sent. I know that on at least a half a dozen instances I had to start treatment - CPR or stop the bleeding - before the ems folks showed up.

So I'm a bit confused as to why D's jurisdiction is whooptie


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

2 thoughts:

There is some sort of good samaritan clause in Canada. No one has ever been convicted after providing unsuccessful first aid

Cops are not legally compelled to protect and serve you in a timely manner(supreme court decision)


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I think Sarge's point is, when you call 911, *their* protocol will determine who is sent to you, not the officer's.
> If the situation warrants a medical response, the 911 operator dispatches them, not the local PD.


Correct. And "their" protocol is to roll a cop no matter the reason for the call and "they" are as ignorant of state law and protocols as the individual cops.

To provide an example that everyone can Google, NJ state law requires a Firearms Owner ID card to own or purchase a firearm of any type. The same state law prescribes what questions are asked on the application form, what the turnaround time must be, etc. However, the application is made to your local police department. Many of the individual towns have added requirements, don't meet the turnaround time and otherwise abuse state law. The only effort to prevent violations of state law in that area comes from the NJ2AS which is collecting data from applicants, contacting towns that abuse the law, and suing those that won't come into compliance.

If local towns can't or won't follow the law in that arena, why would you think they would follow it in any other arena? The fact is they do whatever they please.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> Correct. And "their" protocol is to roll a cop no matter the reason for the call an "they" are as ignorant of state law and protocols as the individual cops.
> 
> To provide an example that everyone can Google, NJ state law requires a Firearms Owner ID card to own or purchase a firearm of any type. The same state law prescribes what questions are asked on the application form, what the turnaround time must be, etc. However, the application is made to your local police department. Many of the individual towns have added requirements, don't meet the turnaround time and otherwise abuse state law. The only effort to prevent violations of state law in that area comes from the NJ2AS which is collecting data from applicants, contacting towns that abuse the law, and suing those that won't come into compliance.
> 
> If local towns can't or won't follow the law in that arena, why would you think they would follow it in any other arena? The fact is they do whatever they please.


Sarge provided the state sponsored manual for emergency operators. If your town is not following this, it should be brought to the attention of a higher power in your state.
Start a social media blitz calling them out on it, and tag the governor. Rally some attention! Get them off their asses.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Sarge provided the state sponsored manual for emergency operators. If your town is not following this, it should be brought to the attention of a higher power in your state.
> Start a social media blitz calling them out on it, and tag the governor. Rally some attention! Get them off their asses.


I couldn't care less whether they follow this particular protocol. I already have a plan to deal with it, which is don't call 911. Drive to the hospital. Self reliance. I care much more about the NJ gun laws and there is already a campaign underway driven by NJ2AS.

BTW: Here is the latest on that topic:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...on-after-legally-owned-gun-makes-him-convict/

As for trying to get a higher power involved, the whole state is corrupt, so who exactly do you think is going to be that higher power? Eric Holder?

My only point is if you are going to rely on 911 for medical emergencies, make sure you know that you'll get an ambulance and EMTs if you call 911. Don't just assume that's what will happen because it doesn't happen everywhere.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> I couldn't care less whether they follow this particular protocol. I already have a plan to deal with it, which is don't call 911. Drive to the hospital. Self reliance. I care much more about the NJ gun laws and there is already a campaign underway driven by NJ2AS.
> 
> BTW: Here is the latest on that topic:
> 
> ...


If you know about a severe problem with the way a public service is being delivered to the public, it's the civil thing to do to try to fix it.

Their abuse could lead to deaths, even if you never suffer from it.
If you don't think it's your place, fine. Turning a blind eye just isn't my thing.

As for the higher power, try the citizens themselves.
Every issue with you is like you've already given up.
Instead of complaining about it on here, go do something about it. AND DON'T ASK US WHAT TO DO! (self reliance)


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> If you know about a severe problem with the way a public service is being delivered to the public, it's the civil thing to do to try to fix it.
> 
> Their abuse could lead to deaths, even if you never suffer from it.
> If you don't think it's your place, fine. Turning a blind eye just isn't my thing.
> ...


I don't consider it a severe problem. I also offered no complaint. I offered advice, which is don't assume that if you call 911 for an ambulance you'll get an ambulance. You are construing that as a complaint. It isn't. I have no problem with it because I have already checked out the situation here and I know how to deal with it. No complaint, simply advice that if you don't know what will happen in your area, find out before you have a medical emergency. That is called being prepared.

As for there being deaths, there should be no deaths among those who take my advice and find out what the system is in their area. I happen to know the system in my area and know how to deal with it. I suggest others do the same.

As for giving up, I haven't given up on this one because I have never taken it up in the first place. I don't have a problem with it, so there is nothing to fix.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> I don't consider it a severe problem. I also offered no complaint. I offered advice, which is don't assume that if you call 911 for an ambulance you'll get an ambulance. You are construing that as a complaint. It isn't. I have no problem with it because I have already checked out the situation here and I know how to deal with it. No complaint, simply advice that if you don't know what will happen in your area, find out before you have a medical emergency. That is called being prepared.
> 
> As for there being deaths, there should be no deaths among those who take my advice and find out what the system is in their area. I happen to know the system in my area and know how to deal with it. I suggest others do the same.
> 
> As for giving up, I haven't given up on this one because I have never taken it up in the first place. I don't have a problem with it, so there is nothing to fix.


Your advise is going to get someone killed one of these days. But wait a minute the OP doesn't say where this story came from, but If you gave this girl advice like you've posted here and she took it I'd seriously consider looking for a god mouth piece.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Your advise is going to get someone killed one of these days. But wait a minute the OP doesn't say where this story came from, but If you gave this girl advice like you've posted here and she took it I'd seriously consider looking for a god mouth piece.


The advice to find out accurate information about your own area is going to get someone killed? Okay, stay ignorant. Your call.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> I don't consider it a severe problem. I also offered no complaint. I offered advice, which is don't assume that if you call 911 for an ambulance you'll get an ambulance. You are construing that as a complaint. It isn't. I have no problem with it because I have already checked out the situation here and I know how to deal with it. No complaint, simply advice that if you don't know what will happen in your area, find out before you have a medical emergency. That is called being prepared.
> 
> As for there being deaths, there should be no deaths among those who take my advice and find out what the system is in their area. I happen to know the system in my area and know how to deal with it. I suggest others do the same.
> 
> As for giving up, I haven't given up on this one because I have never taken it up in the first place. I don't have a problem with it, so there is nothing to fix.


Oh, there's something to fix, alright.
You've just decided it doesn't affect you, so you aren't willing to do anything.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

"I absolutely disagree with the advice to call 911. Aside from the delay you would expect, in my jurisdiction the first response is from a cop, who then decides whether to roll the ambulance, and of course he has the right to enter your house, etc. So if the cop decides the call is whatever hallucination he has instead of a roll the ambulance situation, you're still waiting while he searches your house, etc.

In the meantime you could have gotten to the hospital.

I could foresee calling 911 if I couldn't lift the patient to get him to the car, . . . Maybe. More likely I am going to get the patient into my car and head for the emergency room."

First I'm not ignorant. The above was your original post to this thread. To tell folks to ignore dialing 911 based on your vision of how the USA works from your small community is reckless to say the least.

Don't make the assumption that all jurisdictions - or all cops - are like the few that you have come in contact witn. It's a very big world out there.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Oh, there's something to fix, alright.
> You've just decided it doesn't affect you, so you aren't willing to do anything.


The 911 system is locally run and isn't a universal, same thing happens everywhere system. It never has been. It is not my job to make it something it isn't. If you don't like the way it works, that is your issue. It isn't my issue. It never has been and I am not going to try to take it on simply because you see it as a problem. I am fine with it. If I lived elsewhere I would find out how the system worked in that area and adapt to the local situation. Know your area.

As for it affecting me, you need to know what you will do during a medical emergency. That can happen to anyone, including me. As a result, I have checked out the system and know what I should do. There are enough problems in the world that I am not going to start trying to fix things that aren't broken.

I am already a member of CERT and a rescue diver and a HAM. I do plenty for emergency management in my area, all of it on a volunteer basis. If you are too lazy to check out what the protocols are in your area, so be it.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> The 911 system is locally run and isn't a universal, same thing happens everywhere system. It never has been. It is not my job to make it something it isn't. If you don't like the way it works, that is your issue. It isn't my issue. It never has been and I am not going to try to take it on simply because you see it as a problem. I am fine with it. If I lived elsewhere I would find out how the system worked in that area and adapt to the local situation. Know your area.
> 
> As for it affecting me, you need to know what you will do during a medical emergency. That can happen to anyone, including me. As a result, I have checked out the system and know what I should do. There are enough problems in the world that I am not going to start trying to fix things that aren't broken.
> 
> I am already a member of CERT and a rescue diver and a HAM. I do plenty for emergency management in my area, all of it on a volunteer basis. If you are too lazy to check out what the protocols are in your area, so be it.


I never said I didn't know the protocols in my area.
Your assertion is nothing but a poor attempt at an insult, and it fell flat.

I'm going to take the advice of another member, and let this go.
You're right, we're all wrong.
Good day.
*member blocked*


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I never said I didn't know the protocols in my area.
> Your assertion is nothing but a poor attempt at an insult, and it fell flat.
> 
> I'm going to take the advice of another member, and let this go.
> ...


It has not been my intention to insult you. However, you made a series of incorrect assumptions about my statements. At no point was the 911 system a universal system. In fact in other countries 911 may not be the emergency services number or there may be different numbers for police, fire, or medical services. The fact that there are local variations on the system here in the US is simply something people need to be aware of.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

True story.
In the summer at our place it regularly gets to a temp of 105 and above in the shade.
My wife (age 68) had been outside for an hour or so grooming the horses, in the sun, waiting for the farrier to arrive and trim their hooves.
I was at work, in the city, 40+ miles away.
The farrier noticed she didn't look right, and it wasn't long before she collapsed, with what was later decided to be heat exhaustion. The farrier got her up and sitting on a mounting block, wet her down with water from the hose, and immediately dialed 911. 
Fire Rescue was quickly on scene (no, Diver, the cops never came) assessed her and decided to transport. I got a call at work from the farrier telling me which hospital to go to (there are many in the city).
I beat the ambulance. They, of course, had called ahead and medical personnel were waiting. She was wheeled on the gurney straight from the ambulance through a side door, right into treatment. Within mere minutes they had her hooked to an IV, and made the necessary vital signs check. Drew blood, the whole bit.
They kept her about four hours until she was stabilized.

Thank God for our 911 system, they very likely prevented serious health damage or maybe even death. Thank God the farrier was there, if she had been alone.............................

Bottom line: if me, or one of the neighbors, had tried to get her into a car and drive her the 40+ miles and then got her into the front waiting area of the emergency room I'll bet the outcome would have been much different.

Warrior4, you guys are wonderful. I later went to the station that responded to the incident and personally thanked them. And brought them a gift of farm fresh eggs. I know in my heart they saved her life. And I am grateful.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> True story.
> In the summer at our place it regularly gets to a temp of 105 and above in the shade.
> My wife (age 68) had been outside for an hour or so grooming the horses, in the sun, waiting for the farrier to arrive and trim their hooves.
> I was at work, in the city, 40+ miles away.
> ...


I am glad you got what you needed. Hopefully, you and your wife will enjoy good health in the future.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Last year we were caring for my wife's grandmother. One night while she was going to bed, she lost her balance while getting into bed. She fell and broke her hip. I knew something was seriously wrong when I tried to sit her up against the wall and she screamed unlike anything I've ever heard. And this is one TOUGH old lady. Rather than trying to get her to the vehicle I called 911. I was worried I might do more damage trying to move her, at the time we had no idea if there might have been a spine injury... The ambulance came immediately. Like less than 10 mins and we are way out in the country. No police involved. Here is where it gets crazy, the county FD shows and they get her ready for transport. Very courteous and professional. Then a second ambulance shows up. From lifenet, a private company. They argue with the county boys and make them turn her over to them. Apparently there is some stipulations that lifenet gets all the work from outside the city limits. Not knocking lifenet but they took at least 3 times longer to respond and the crew that showed up at my house looked like a bunch of slobs. Their ambulance was dirty as hell on the outside and their equipment looked like cheap imitation of what the FD had. The chief even had a crappy attitude. Not professional and courteous like the fire department crew. I wonder if lifenet would have done the same thing if it was a critical emergency? Come in and argue with the county because they responded faster. That is my only personal experience with ems out here. If we have another emergency I hope the fire department comes instead of lifenet.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

In the case of a broken hip you really need professional transport more than speed. Unfortunately it sounds like you had both quick and professional with the FD. In the OP we were discussing an allergic reaction where time is of the essence.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

The thing about EMS in the USA is that there is no set standard. In a lot of big cities and also a lot of rural areas the primary emergency response units are part of the Fire Department. In other areas there are ambulance companies that only transfer patients between hospitals. Other companies, like the one I work for, are owned by a larger hospital system and we're a subsidiary company of them. There are still other private emergency response companies that do both inter-facility transfer and 911 response. 

There are also a lot of different ways an ambulance can be staffed and deployed. For instance I work on an Advanced Life Support ambulance, ALS since I hold an EMT-Paramedic licence. This means I can interpret heart rhythms, start IV's, give drugs through those IV's, intubate someone's airway, heck I can even stick a needle in your chest to relieve the pressure of a tension pnumothorax. Other ambulances are Basic Life Support and instead of being staffed by Paramedics are staffed by EMT-Basics. A Basic EMT can take vitals, splint bones, assist a person in taking a few of their own medications such as nitro or an inhaler, make a more detailed medical or trauma assessment than most laypersons. Things like that. 

The whole point is that there's a lot of variety when it comes to how EMS is used in the USA. Yes it's important to know who is going to show up at your door if you call 911. However like I've said before, the vast and overwhelming majority of the time it's better to call 911 and I or someone like me who is trained on how to respond to a medical emergency will get there and treat the person. 

To the OP no I don't think PD should have epi-pens in their cars. They're really not used all that much and the chances are that it would expire before a Police Officer would be in a position to use it for it's intended purpose. There is a push to have PD have Narcan in their cars and that might not be bad. Narcan is a drug that very quickly fixes the problems of heroin or similar opiate overdoses. Considering how often PD comes on drug overdoses there's a lot of logic in that. For just about everything else call 911 and get an ambulance there and you'll get a better outcome than driving yourself. People who panic rarely make situations better.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

warrior4 said:


> The thing about EMS in the USA is that there is no set standard. In a lot of big cities and also a lot of rural areas the primary emergency response units are part of the Fire Department. In other areas there are ambulance companies that only transfer patients between hospitals. Other companies, like the one I work for, are owned by a larger hospital system and we're a subsidiary company of them. There are still other private emergency response companies that do both inter-facility transfer and 911 response.
> 
> There are also a lot of different ways an ambulance can be staffed and deployed. For instance I work on an Advanced Life Support ambulance, ALS since I hold an EMT-Paramedic licence. This means I can interpret heart rhythms, start IV's, give drugs through those IV's, intubate someone's airway, heck I can even stick a needle in your chest to relieve the pressure of a tension pnumothorax. Other ambulances are Basic Life Support and instead of being staffed by Paramedics are staffed by EMT-Basics. A Basic EMT can take vitals, splint bones, assist a person in taking a few of their own medications such as nitro or an inhaler, make a more detailed medical or trauma assessment than most laypersons. Things like that.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this post. It makes my point that what happens when you dial 911 in a medical emergency is highly variable depending on where you live. Understanding how the system operates can make a difference in how best to respond.


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## hotpig27 (Dec 24, 2013)

Many places will not allow Basic EMT's on BLS Ambulances and Rescue trucks to carry them. They were approved for use by the EMT Basic in the 1994 EMT Curriculum update. 21 years later they still are not in wide spread use.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Also depends on if you're calling from landline or cell phone. 

Cell phone gets routed through CHP around here. Not sure why.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

I'll give you the number one reason why cops shouldn't have epipens...cost!! Hot damn!! Those things are expensive and they have to be replaced every year!! You can't use an expired epipen!! 
Pay the cops more instead!!


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Mish said:


> I'll give you the number one reason why cops shouldn't have epipens...cost!! Hot damn!! Those things are expensive and they have to be replaced every year!! You can't use an expired epipen!!
> Pay the cops more instead!!


THIS^^^^^^ I think that every patrol car should be equipped with an automatic defibrillator, an AMBU bag and basic first aid kit with battle dressings. I have everything but the AED, too expensive I guess. I have learned to live within my means and compared to our young Officers I'm ashamed of what I make compared to them. I think we start Officers at 15.00 per hour now.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

A cop is not your local drug store or a DR that can give out meds, it's not his job, period.


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## oldmurph58 (Feb 8, 2014)

around here they want the cops to carry narcan for junkies o.d.ing, epi pens havent come up yet, but aint this why we have emt's? the cops got enough of stuff to do without becomin ems. most of the firemen are cross trained as emts as well, around here.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Absolutely not. A LEO is just a first responder as per their medical training. Anyone that might need an epipen should carry one same as a diabetic should carry insulin.


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