# Immune System Prepping for Ebola



## Denton

Clipped from a recent Natural News article...



> Drug enforcement agency going after essential oil companies at a time when an integrated immune-system-building approach is needed the most
> 
> In the meantime, drug regulation agencies like the US FDA are going after anyone who mentions something other than a pharmaceutical as a potential treatment for Ebola. Recently, two essential oil companies, Young Living and doTerra, were threatened with criminal charges for encouraging the use of essential oils for Ebola treatment. According to the FDA, only lab scientists can create antiviral medicines. What's utterly ignorant of them is that there are numerous scientific studies showing the natural, antiviral properties of essential oils like thyme, hyssop, ginger and sandalwood, among countless others. But these studies are not discussed; these essentials not allowed to be freely given, recommended or tested against Ebola. This shows that the science behind treating Ebola is bought off and controlled by drug company interests.
> 
> For Heaven's sake, these two herbs alone -- Echinacea purpurea and Eleutherococcus root -- exhibit antiviral properties in treating human Victoria (H3N2) and PR8 (H1N1), avian KAN-1 (H5N1) and FPV (H7N7) and pandemic S-OIV (H1N1) strains of influenza A, as well as rhinovirus (HRV) and respiratory syncytial virus (RSV).


Learn more: Ebola now has 70% mortality rate, but immune-boosting natural medicine is chastised and threatened - NaturalNews.com

Echinacea is probably in your herb and vitamin cabinet, already. Might as well toss in some Eleutherococcus root.


----------



## Inor

I find it strange how a woman is allowed to murder her unborn child because "it is her body, her choice". But the same does not apply if I want to use a natural product to treat or prevent viruses. If I were a tinfoil hatter, I would start to think our federal government is filled with a bunch of death worshipers just like the Muslims. But that could never be...


----------



## Denton

Inor said:


> I find it strange how a woman is allowed to murder her unborn child because "it is her body, her choice". But the same does not apply if I want to use a natural product to treat or prevent viruses. If I were a tinfoil hatter, I would start to think our federal government is filled with a bunch of death worshipers just like the Muslims. But that could never be...


It certainly does make one wonder, doesn't it?

After all, the government has owned the patent on Ebola since 2007.


----------



## RNprepper

Denton said:


> Clipped from a recent Natural News article...
> 
> Learn more: Ebola now has 70% mortality rate, but immune-boosting natural medicine is chastised and threatened - NaturalNews.com
> 
> Echinacea is probably in your herb and vitamin cabinet, already. Might as well toss in some Eleutherococcus root.


I will gladly use herbal remedies, but I really want to see the actual double blind, high quality studies that support the claims.


----------



## Denton

RNprepper said:


> I will gladly use herbal remedies, but I really want to see the actual double blind, high quality studies that support the claims.


I am sure they will get right on that for you.

I doubt they'd have much to say about it if it passed all studies, unless Big-Pharm can declare it a drug and monopolize it.


----------



## oddapple

RNprepper said:


> I will gladly use herbal remedies, but I really want to see the actual double blind, high quality studies that support the claims.


I just went by 30 years of patient care and ignored the stupid industry which has never been anything but a dimb-farming and profit driven "high quality study". But, we have too many people and all the "industry/vaccinate/control" crowd at ama, cdc & medscape will hopefully be the beneficiaries of their own drugs and tender mercies. 
I prove things for myself because of half-wittedness, plain falseness, pathological predators and vultures US medicine has become.
I read an article that said "Are doctors over 40 too intelligent to practice in the United States?"
Yup. Ipso facto ~


----------



## RNprepper

Denton said:


> I am sure they will get right on that for you.
> 
> I doubt they'd have much to say about it if it passed all studies, unless Big-Pharm can declare it a drug and monopolize it.


I sure don't want this discussion to turn into an argument, but there are so many snake oil dealers out there that make incredible claims based on a collection of anectodal testimonies, which may or may not actually be valid. Don't get me wrong, I am just as skeptical of new prescription drugs that come out. (If I ever needed prescription medication for a condition, I would opt for an older drug that has been around a long time and has been used by millions of people first.) Before I put anything into my body that is going to have a chemical effect, I want to know how it has worked on a lot of other people - preferably documented in large, non-biased studies. You can get anyone to say anything, and for me, that is not strong enough evidence to choose a treatment for a serious, life threatening condition.

Please note that I am only offering my opinion, and without profanity or name calling.


----------



## Denton

RNprepper said:


> I sure don't want this discussion to turn into an argument, but there are so many snake oil dealers out there that make incredible claims based on a collection of anectodal testimonies, which may or may not actually be valid. Don't get me wrong, I am just as skeptical of new prescription drugs that come out. (If I ever needed prescription medication for a condition, I would opt for an older drug that has been around a long time and has been used by millions of people first.) Before I put anything into my body that is going to have a chemical effect, I want to know how it has worked on a lot of other people - preferably documented in large, non-biased studies. You can get anyone to say anything, and for me, that is not strong enough evidence to choose a treatment for a serious, life threatening condition.
> 
> Please note that I am only offering my opinion, and without profanity or name calling.


Are you concerned that I will attack you? Come on. You should know better!

Considering the number of people who die in spite of and sometimes due to Big Pharm, one might keep an open mind. Especially considering Echinacea is older than any medicine you might already trust.


----------



## Denton

Also, in case one did not read the article, here is a smaller sampling of the already small sampling of the article...



> According to the FDA, only lab scientists can create antiviral medicines. What's utterly ignorant of them is that there are numerous scientific studies showing the natural, antiviral properties of essential oils like thyme, hyssop, ginger and sandalwood, among countless others. But these studies are not discussed; these essentials not allowed to be freely given, recommended or tested against Ebola.


The antiviral properties of these essential oils are not in question.

According to the article, the essential oils are not being discussed or even tested for treatment of Ebola. That being the case, it seems obvious a double-blind study won't be happening.

After all, the government owns the patent on Ebola, and any treatment, miraculous or not, are patented as well. Hmmm.....


----------



## Kauboy

Inor said:


> I find it strange how a woman is allowed to murder her unborn child because "it is her body, her choice". But the same does not apply if I want to use a natural product to treat or prevent viruses. If I were a tinfoil hatter, I would start to think our federal government is filled with a bunch of death worshipers just like the Muslims. But that could never be...


Technically, they are only attacking the people selling the oils.
To my knowledge, it is still perfectly legal for you to consume them.
Though finding a source may be a bit trickier.

Once the sellers figure out the loophole of not specifically advertising them for Ebola treatment, they will be right back in business.
With all the regulation in this country, you have to choose your words wisely when selling to the public.


----------



## RNprepper

Denton said:


> Are you concerned that I will attack you? Come on. You should know better!
> 
> Considering the number of people who die in spite of and sometimes due to Big Pharm, one might keep an open mind. Especially considering Echinacea is older than any medicine you might already trust.


Denton, you are always cordial, civil, and well spoken. Some others tend to get emotional over topics and then resort to defensive mechanisms that are not exactly kind. Thank you for your moderation that is always appropriate and helpful.

PS: Yes, some herbal treatments have been around for ages. I do not doubt their effectiveness, BUT... they are medicinal substances, and can have adverse effects as well as helpful ones. My best friend gave her son a few drops of Echinacea in some tea to help his cold. He immediately went into anaphylaxis and spent the day in the ER. Just saying.... anything that works for some can be harmful for others.

Denton, believe me, I realize how many medical errors and pharmaceutical errors are made. It is a huge issue. (I'll bet not many people know that RN's catch many, many drug errors that the doctors make - wrong dose, allergies, etc.) I have seen people on so many drugs that the drugs are interacting with each other and giving all new side effects. It's terrible. That being said, I do use some foods in a medicinal manner. My main point of joining the discussion was to warn about jumping on any band wagon based on claims of cures for very dangerous diseases.


----------



## pharmer14

RNprepper said:


> I will gladly use herbal remedies, but I really want to see the actual double blind, high quality studies that support the claims.


Yeah the problem with that is there's no money in products you can grow in your window sill.

On Ebola in general, I think scientific studies have shown that the best way to prepare for it is to practice good hygiene. I'd recommend learning ways to dispose of urine and feces. I've seen a few good ideas on youtube. Also I think maybe it was Dateline that had the medical folks on who dealt with the first doctor who came back. They mentioned a liquid they had to put the urine and feces in to chemically neutralize the ebola virus. Maybe that's an avenue to pursue?

But for me? The cornerstone will be keeping the septic system functional as long as possible and then putting together a good latrine station to switch to when that goes down.


----------



## Denton

RNprepper said:


> Denton, you are always cordial, civil, and well spoken. Some others tend to get emotional over topics and then resort to defensive mechanisms that are not exactly kind. Thank you for your moderation that is always appropriate and helpful.
> 
> PS: Yes, some herbal treatments have been around for ages. I do not doubt their effectiveness, BUT... they are medicinal substances, and can have adverse effects as well as helpful ones. My best friend gave her son a few drops of Echinacea in some tea to help his cold. He immediately went into anaphylaxis and spent the day in the ER. Just saying.... anything that works for some can be harmful for others.
> 
> Denton, believe me, I realize how many medical errors and pharmaceutical errors are made. It is a huge issue. (I'll bet not many people know that RN's catch many, many drug errors that the doctors make - wrong dose, allergies, etc.) I have seen people on so many drugs that the drugs are interacting with each other and giving all new side effects. It's terrible. That being said, I do use some foods in a medicinal manner. My main point of joining the discussion was to warn about jumping on any band wagon based on claims of cures for very dangerous diseases.


I certainly am not suggesting anyone jump on a band wagon, take a handful of herbs and go to Africa as an health provider in Liberia. On the other hand, I am suggesting that there is a reason why Big Pharm is not interested in a double blind experiment and that reason is green and folds in wallets.

I am also suggesting to do as I do, as well as every doctor and nurse I know, do; take rounds of virus fighting herbs during cold and flu season as well as "Ebola Season" - if it comes. Boosting the immune system is a good thing. Sure, preventive maintenance doesn't line the pockets of Big Pharm, but I don't mind that. After all, the only medicine that interests them is the medicine that can be pushed on the most people.


----------



## PaulS

It isn't that you can't use herbal treatments it is just that a seller or provider can't "prescribe" them as a treatment for a problem or diagnose a problem unless they are a licensed physician or an herbologist (in the state of Washington) under the direction of a physician.


----------



## RNprepper

Denton said:


> I certainly am not suggesting anyone jump on a band wagon, take a handful of herbs and go to Africa as an health provider in Liberia. On the other hand, I am suggesting that there is a reason why Big Pharm is not interested in a double blind experiment and that reason is green and folds in wallets.
> 
> I am also suggesting to do as I do, as well as every doctor and nurse I know, do; take rounds of virus fighting herbs during cold and flu season as well as "Ebola Season" - if it comes. Boosting the immune system is a good thing. Sure, preventive maintenance doesn't line the pockets of Big Pharm, but I don't mind that. After all, the only medicine that interests them is the medicine that can be pushed on the most people.


Common sense must prevail. Unfortunately there are individuals who will do just what you mentioned - grab a handful of whatever, set up a soap box, get some testimonials, and sell it to any gullible person with that particular ailment.

Money drives the innovation, for sure. There are so many orphan diseases that can't get the funding for research or development of treatments because there simply is not enough money in it for the developers. Either not enough cases, or the affected people are just too poor to pay. That's where funding from private individuals (like the Gates Foundation) helps tremendously because profit is not the motive.

Everything in balance. As wary as many of us may be of western medicine or drugs, remember that those drugs and vaccines add 30% to life expectancy. And who wants an appendectomy without modern anesthesia?


----------



## RNprepper

PaulS said:


> It isn't that you can't use herbal treatments it is just that a seller or provider can't "prescribe" them as a treatment for a problem or diagnose a problem unless they are a licensed physician or an herbologist (in the state of Washington) under the direction of a physician.


Good point, and welcome back, PaulS. I was wondering where you have been hiding.


----------



## Denton

RNprepper said:


> Common sense must prevail. Unfortunately there are individuals who will do just what you mentioned - grab a handful of whatever, set up a soap box, get some testimonials, and sell it to any gullible person with that particular ailment.
> 
> Money drives the innovation, for sure. There are so many orphan diseases that can't get the funding for research or development of treatments because there simply is not enough money in it for the developers. Either not enough cases, or the affected people are just too poor to pay. That's where funding from private individuals (like the Gates Foundation) helps tremendously because profit is not the motive.
> 
> Everything in balance. As wary as many of us may be of western medicine or drugs, remember that those drugs and vaccines add 30% to life expectancy. And who wants an appendectomy without modern anesthesia?


You are baiting and switching. Did I suggest an herb over anesthisia? Nope.
30% longer due to drugs? Absolutely, but that does not mean the same can't be so without Big Pharm.

You made a bandwagon strawman and deal in generalities around it. I am perplexed as to why you thought that was a good route. All the while, you ignore the points of the article. You read it, right?


----------



## Kauboy

I don't think she intended to belittle the use of these oils in treatment. She even admitted that they can work.
She simply wants scientific proof, as with any drug, that it does what it is claimed to.
Anecdotal evidence is not "proof", even if the result is the same.


----------



## oddapple

I think the point about getting one's own proof being best was already made. The thing is that the very same mind that puts stock in the industry when depop is the rule is the same thinking that will buy a product by the packaging and be farther from the real thing in their effort to use a comparison that is specifically not in "people's" best interest.
"Designed by a school teacher!" Remember that one?

So do bear in mind that the more main stream a product is the less likely it is going to be much but a money maker.
Use the same rules everybody always does with new foods, try a bite and wait an hour.
You can check your drugs I think at GreenMedInfo | Alternative Medicine | Vitamin Research | Natural so it's not like that's a big scary mystery you need help for and by all means consider the more thorough learning of the plants and producing your own things from fresh primary materials every chance you get. That way you do know what's in it and it is made for you.


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> I don't think she intended to belittle the use of these oils in treatment. She even admitted that they can work.
> She simply wants scientific proof, as with any drug, that it does what it is claimed to.
> Anecdotal evidence is not "proof", even if the result is the same.


Does anyone even read the smallest of article sampling?

Read it and see that her point is quite moot.


----------



## RNprepper

oddapple said:


> I just went by 30 years of patient care and ignored the stupid industry which has never been anything but a dimb-farming and profit driven "high quality study". But, we have too many people and all the "industry/vaccinate/control" crowd at ama, cdc & medscape will hopefully be the beneficiaries of their own drugs and tender mercies.
> I prove things for myself because of half-wittedness, plain falseness, pathological predators and vultures US medicine has become.
> I read an article that said "Are doctors over 40 too intelligent to practice in the United States?"
> Yup. Ipso facto ~


Denton, you "liked" this post. This post seems to be bent on running down any form of western medicine that makes a profit for a drug company. I absolutely did not try to bait and switch the discussion. I mentioned the benefits of western medicine only to give some balance to an opinion that some people hold. Yes, I read the entire article. I also read all the references and the references to the references, but could not find any reference to the "numerous scientific studies."

I am not opposed to exploration of any options that can help people in the midst of this horrific epidemic. But we don't have control over who gets the funding. Maybe it isn't fair. But that's where it is right now. I think there is also a difference between a substance that can boost the immune system in general and a substance designed to combat the specific virus genetically or immunologically. PaulS had the best explanation.


----------



## RNprepper

Denton said:


> Does anyone even read the smallest of article sampling?
> 
> Read it and see that her point is quite moot.


Denton, I think I see what the problem is. You posted and article and failed to make your own statement or point about it, except to encourage folks to get some Echinacea on board. I read the entire article and made my own conclusion from extrapolating what I thought were the important points. I think I failed to see your point, because I am still not sure what your point was. I was responding to the article from my own interpretation of it. So can we still be friends? I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the point of the article which I THINK is that it is unfair for the FDA to choose funding for some drug companies but not for the herbal companies. Now I probably totally blew it. I just want to see some evidence before getting excited about a remedy - any remedy. Even the experimental drugs that are being funded - it's only a guess that they might be effective in humans. No one knows. Some have lived, some have died. The studies are years away from being completed with the proper channels and clinical trials. It's a gamble and the Africans will be the human guinea pigs. (Not trying to bait and switch, really.)


----------



## bigwheel

It's obvious doctors are much more dangerous than guns.


----------



## Camel923

RNprepper said:


> Denton, you are always cordial, civil, and well spoken. Some others tend to get emotional over topics and then resort to defensive mechanisms that are not exactly kind. Thank you for your moderation that is always appropriate and helpful.
> 
> PS: Yes, some herbal treatments have been around for ages. I do not doubt their effectiveness, BUT... they are medicinal substances, and can have adverse effects as well as helpful ones. My best friend gave her son a few drops of Echinacea in some tea to help his cold. He immediately went into anaphylaxis and spent the day in the ER. Just saying.... anything that works for some can be harmful for others.
> 
> Denton, believe me, I realize how many medical errors and pharmaceutical errors are made. It is a huge issue. (I'll bet not many people know that RN's catch many, many drug errors that the doctors make - wrong dose, allergies, etc.) I have seen people on so many drugs that the drugs are interacting with each other and giving all new side effects. It's terrible. That being said, I do use some foods in a medicinal manner. My main point of joining the discussion was to warn about jumping on any band wagon based on claims of cures for very dangerous diseases.


Agreed. Many of us know some one who went through 7 different medications to control blood pressure because different drugs react differently in different people . Many people are over medicated because in my opinion medicine is so specialized no one is looking at the big picture. Herbal remedies are not taught in Medical schools because of the big donations pharmaceutical companies make. If the FDA and CDC functioned in a purely altruistic manner, the public would have better medicine available to them.


----------



## Jeep

OK, I can not drop the gavel on this sight about Ebola. If I could I would say, unless you have an outbreak quit crying wolf. the CDC in Georgia harbors and cultivates viruses that make Ebola look like the runs. Quite yelling fire in a crowded room. 20k people are not driving to your state infected to escape the virus. SHUT UP already.


----------



## Denton

RNprepper said:


> Denton, I think I see what the problem is. You posted and article and failed to make your own statement or point about it, except to encourage folks to get some Echinacea on board. I read the entire article and made my own conclusion from extrapolating what I thought were the important points. I think I failed to see your point, because I am still not sure what your point was. I was responding to the article from my own interpretation of it. So can we still be friends? I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the point of the article which I THINK is that it is unfair for the FDA to choose funding for some drug companies but not for the herbal companies. Now I probably totally blew it. I just want to see some evidence before getting excited about a remedy - any remedy. Even the experimental drugs that are being funded - it's only a guess that they might be effective in humans. No one knows. Some have lived, some have died. The studies are years away from being completed with the proper channels and clinical trials. It's a gamble and the Africans will be the human guinea pigs. (Not trying to bait and switch, really.)


We are not not friends. Why are you so paranoid about that? Sheesh!

Yes, I suggest getting and using such herbs, as does my doctors, in order to bolster the immune system. I didn't mean that to take away from the article.

You declared you want a double blind study, yet the article that you read thoroughly indicated that the FDA is not at all interested or allowing any research on herbal remedies regarding Ebola.

I am very familiar with how meds come on the market, having dated a woman who was an MD who worked in Big Pharm research. Were I to spend the time remembering all she told me, I would curl your hair with horror stories. The notion that the Africans will be guinea pigs is only half of the story. Their survival is not even a concern. Far from it. During her years in working in that field, she began to get suspicious and started paying attention to Third World nations as NGOs spread "medical care" over them. She found death followed.

On a side note, she left the field and is teaching English to Chinese kids, or something like that.


----------



## Denton

RNprepper said:


> Denton, you "liked" this post. This post seems to be bent on running down any form of western medicine that makes a profit for a drug company. I absolutely did not try to bait and switch the discussion. I mentioned the benefits of western medicine only to give some balance to an opinion that some people hold. Yes, I read the entire article. I also read all the references and the references to the references, but could not find any reference to the "numerous scientific studies."
> 
> I am not opposed to exploration of any options that can help people in the midst of this horrific epidemic. But we don't have control over who gets the funding. Maybe it isn't fair. But that's where it is right now. I think there is also a difference between a substance that can boost the immune system in general and a substance designed to combat the specific virus genetically or immunologically. PaulS had the best explanation.


Running down Western Medicine? Echinecia is "Western Medicine," as it has been used in the West longer than Big Pharm medicine. On the other hand, didn't you come in, waiting for double blind studies that the article made clear the authorities are not interested in conducting, while making it sound as if some people reading this article might jump on some "band wagon" and turn their backs on "Western" medicine and start gnawing on roots and munching on leaves? :lol: I also didn't suggest anyone ditch anesthesia for an herbal remedy, now did I? Part of what I deduced as a bait and switch, as such a thing had nothing to do with the topic.

Now, to my personal point, which is aside from the article, and seems to have clouded the issue of the article...

There are certain herbs and essential oils that are known to bolster the immune system so it can fight off viral attacks. It would be well advised to start taking rounds of these, in order to prepare for potential viral assaults against the body. Regardless of what the almighty FDA says or allows to be researched, we can prepare ourselves by doing this.

You are a nurse. Those who give me advice are doctors, as well as nurses. Not that I hold them in higher esteem in these regards as I do the old people I know, but it seems that you might.

Nursie, we are friends. Stop fretting. I always look forward to your thoughts. You know, friends don't always see eye to eye, right?


----------



## Slippy

So to me, the best things to do are hand washing, immune system boostering and stay away from anyone infected. No hangin' out with your Liberian or West African buddies.


----------



## Inor

Slippy said:


> So to me, the best things to do are hand washing, immune system boostering and stay away from anyone infected. No hangin' out with your Liberian or West African buddies.


And stay away from public toilets, especially kissing public toilets...


----------



## Denton

Inor said:


> And stay away from public toilets, especially kissing public toilets...


Always stay away from those who kiss public toilets, too.


----------



## TG

One of the most striking things I have first noticed about North America is the way medicine is practiced here.. Doctors are treating symptoms but do not talk about prevention or WHY you are sick at all. A sick person here gets all kinds of medications prescribed for the most pathetic of ailments when doctors in many other countries start with nutrition as medicine and go from there, talk of prevention is often half of the appointment time... Here, your appointment lasts 35 seconds and ends with a jog to the nearest pharmacy. It's amazing that most of the population is not addicted to drugs.

For a couple of thousand years, Golden Root was consumed regularly by Slavs, Norse (Vikings), Mongols, Chinese..etc as a preventative medicine which balances your hormones and prevents many kinds of viral infections, too bad many forgotten but some of us still remember and use it almost on a daily basis, it's also safe for kids. Prescribed by many doctors not working in North America.

http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-rhodiola.html 
Worth reading about 

PS, there are so many others!


----------



## TG

Look up Arbidol, a pharma drug only used in Russia and China to prevent epidemics, it's over the counter.


----------



## DerBiermeister

Well -- trying to keep this thread on a positive note about herbs, etc., that will significantly boost your immune system ......... there is one that deserves attention. My wife and I have been using this for about 4 months now. It is called Manuka Honey and it comes from New Zealand. It is quite expensive, but helps so many ailments that you cannot put a price on it.

Manuka Honey for Immunity

Does Manuka Honey Boost the Immune System? | Healthy Eating | SF Gate

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VK08OC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## TG

DerBiermeister said:


> Well -- trying to keep this thread on a positive note about herbs, etc., that will significantly boost your immune system ......... there is one that deserves attention. My wife and I have been using this for about 4 months now. It is called Manuka Honey and it comes from New Zealand. It is quite expensive, but helps so many ailments that you cannot put a price on it.
> 
> Manuka Honey for Immunity
> 
> Does Manuka Honey Boost the Immune System? | Healthy Eating | SF Gate
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VK08OC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


ONLY if the honey is raw, not pasteurized. Any honey works well, but only if it's raw. Just checked, your link does sell raw honey.. Check for any additives just in case, some additives kill all the useful bacteria, making the honey useless. Try some local raw honey sold by farmers in your area, should be a lot cheaper and would work just as well.


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> Does anyone even read the smallest of article sampling?
> 
> Read it and see that her point is quite moot.


If you're referring to the article you posted, it provided no test results of patients on the substance versus a control, no double-blind study results, no medical papers written to support the claim.
I'm NOT saying they don't work. Don't misunderstand that.
I'm only saying that the above mentioned reports would solidify their effectiveness in the minds of those like me who want hard figures and scientific proofs presented when a claim is made.
The term "proof" seems to have a negative connotation, as if the request for it immediately implies a lie.
Far from it.
A mathematical "proof" is simply a statement that cannot be refuted. It is not up for debate, as it has been shown to be true >99% of the time.
2=2 is a mathematical proof.

If there is something like this available for these oils, we are craving this kind of information.


----------



## TG

Western medicine is still in its infant stage, a tiny fraction has been researched and cross examined... I'll stick with 4,000 years of Chinese medicine and what has worked in other cultures


----------



## Denton

Kauboy said:


> If you're referring to the article you posted, it provided no test results of patients on the substance versus a control, no double-blind study results, no medical papers written to support the claim.
> I'm NOT saying they don't work. Don't misunderstand that.
> I'm only saying that the above mentioned reports would solidify their effectiveness in the minds of those like me who want hard figures and scientific proofs presented when a claim is made.
> The term "proof" seems to have a negative connotation, as if the request for it immediately implies a lie.
> Far from it.
> A mathematical "proof" is simply a statement that cannot be refuted. It is not up for debate, as it has been shown to be true >99% of the time.
> 2=2 is a mathematical proof.
> 
> If there is something like this available for these oils, we are craving this kind of information.


But these studies are not discussed; _these essentials not allowed to be freely given, recommended or tested against Ebola._

The point. The "official" tests you want are not going to happen. Until the "officials" allow it to happen, you will be against it. See the circle? I certainly do.

It always seems that the old advice to follow the money is the right advice.


----------



## DerBiermeister

TorontoGal said:


> ONLY if the honey is raw, not pasteurized. Any honey works well, but only if it's raw. Just checked, your link does sell raw honey.. Check for any additives just in case, some additives kill all the useful bacteria, making the honey useless. Try some local raw honey sold by farmers in your area, should be a lot cheaper and would work just as well.


Correct -- the link was to the honey we've been purchasing. The 16+ rating I think makes this honey significantly more potent than anything I could buy locally. The key is the Manuka tree blossoms. As far as I know, they only exist in New Zealand.
There DOES seem to be some issue with Weatherspoons rating as they don't display a UMF seal. I will do more investigating before my next purchase.


----------



## DerBiermeister

TorontoGal said:


> Western medicine is still in its infant stage, a tiny fraction has been researched and cross examined... I'll stick with 4,000 years of Chinese medicine and what has worked in other cultures


WHOA
I agree -- there are definitely some great ancient treatments, but you cannot deny modern medicine either. For instance, were it not for artificial heart valves, I would have been a goner a long time ago. The surgery alone (again modern medicine) with a success rate of over 96%, is astounding. That is just ONE example of thousands I could list, given enough time. My family has a lot of experience with Leukemia success. If you look at the history of childhood Leukemia going back say 50 years and then compare it to what they are doing today -- there simply is no comparison.

I also don't think the Chinese were having a lot of success with artificial knees 4000 years ago. I have two of those -- and wouldn't leave home without them. :lol:


----------



## TG

We used to buy Manuka as well but switched back to local honey 5 years ago, my mom's neighbour in N. Ontario produces honey on a small scale and only sells to friends and the quality is superb, my kids are never sick, even when everyone else at their school is falling apart, this also includes stomach viruses that spread through our school like fire. I give them a table spoon of raw local honey every morning before school.


----------



## Kauboy

Denton said:


> But these studies are not discussed; _these essentials not allowed to be freely given, recommended or tested against Ebola._
> 
> The point. The "official" tests you want are not going to happen. Until the "officials" allow it to happen, you will be against it. See the circle? I certainly do.
> 
> It always seems that the old advice to follow the money is the right advice.


Balderdash.
Universities conduct studies all the time for things deemed "non regulated".
I'm not asking the FDA to do such a study.
Any unbiased professional should be able to conduct such a study to determine, factually, that they work as intended.


----------



## TG

DerBiermeister said:


> WHOA
> I agree -- there are definitely some great ancient treatments, but you cannot deny modern medicine either. For instance, were it not for artificial heart valves, I would have been a goner a long time ago. The surgery alone (again modern medicine) with a success rate of over 96%, is astounding. That is just ONE example of thousands I could list, given enough time. My family has a lot of experience with Leukemia success. If you look at the history of childhood Leukemia going back say 50 years and then compare it to what they are doing today -- there simply is no comparison.
> 
> I also don't think the Chinese were having a lot of success with artificial knees 4000 years ago. I have two of those -- and wouldn't leave home without them. :lol:


In most cases, the whole reason of needing heart valves and all kinds of heart-disease medicines is the modern Western diet, which the Chinese and many other cultures simply don't live by. The difference in heart disease and cancers between US and China (for example) is pretty large. Unfortunately, many Chinese and other cultures are beginning to eat like the rich parts of the world.


----------



## TG

I'm not personally against Western Medicine, I take my kids in for regular checkups and fully vaccinate them (much slower pace than in North America, but they are 100% up to date).. I just look for other methods first.


----------



## DerBiermeister

TorontoGal said:


> We used to buy Manuka as well but switched back to local honey 5 years ago, my mom's neighbour in N. Ontario produces honey on a small scale and only sells to friends and the quality is superb, my kids are never sick, even when everyone else at their school is falling apart, this also includes stomach viruses that spread through our school like fire. I give them a table spoon of raw local honey every morning before school.


We have an elderly neighbor lady who buys up all of the raw honey from our local fruit/veggie stand right around this time each year. She swears by it.


----------



## Arklatex

I have zero experience with herbal medicine. After reading this thread earlier today it got me to thinking, I need to study up on this stuff. Can anybody recommend a good book on the subject? Anyway, I was at the drug store today to pick up some meds for my elderly neighbors who can't drive anymore (I'm cool like that ) and I see the stand with all the herbal crap. They were having a sale: pick any 3 for 20 bucks. Not sure if it's a good deal or not but I went ahead and bought some. Here's the 3 I picked:









Is the echinacea the right stuff to be considering for immune system building? This stuff is new to me... Hope I didn't screw up and buy the wrong stuff.


----------



## TG

Arklatex said:


> I have zero experience with herbal medicine. After reading this thread earlier today it got me to thinking, I need to study up on this stuff. Can anybody recommend a good book on the subject? Anyway, I was at the drug store today to pick up some meds for my elderly neighbors who can't drive anymore (I'm cool like that ) and I see the stand with all the herbal crap. They were having a sale: pick any 3 for 20 bucks. Not sure if it's a good deal or not but I went ahead and bought some. Here's the 3 I picked:
> 
> View attachment 6915
> 
> 
> Is the echinacea the right stuff to be considering for immune system building? This stuff is new to me... Hope I didn't screw up and buy the wrong stuff.


Those are great but check the ingredients for any junk.. Echinacea is American Cone Flower, you might see it flowering everywhere, you can always collect the actual flowers + root and research different uses. Cone Flower reduces inflammation and has so many different benefits, including strengthening immune system but it depends on the quality of what you're taking, actual petals + root are better than pills.

Check your neighbourhood for ginkgo trees, I found 2 on my street.. Leaves are the source but don't touch the seeds.

The items you bought are a great start, just try to learn more about the source and see if you can find it in your location.


----------



## SquirrelBait

I buy raw local honey for protein, Enzyme, And Pollen content. It works for desensitizing pollen based allergies. I never suffer from pollen.

I bought up a butt load of organic, Locally grown Bulgarian garlic. I eat a clove of that a day. Now that I'm back to baking bread I'll be making a garlic and coconut oil spread for breakfast.

*Stinky ol' Squirrel*


----------



## Michael_Js

SquirrelBait said:


> I buy raw local honey for protein, Enzyme, And Pollen content. It works for desensitizing pollen based allergies. I never suffer from pollen.
> 
> I bought up a butt load of organic, Locally grown Bulgarian garlic. I eat a clove of that a day. Now that I'm back to baking bread I'll be making a *garlic and coconut oil spread* for breakfast.
> 
> *Stinky ol' Squirrel*


Recipe? 

thank you!


----------



## Arklatex

May be a good idea to plant a "immune system support" patch in the herb garden next spring.


----------

