# The plan fro Post-Shtf



## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

When the S hits the F and all hell breaks loose, will we still have morals?

What i mean in more detail is, if people come to us for help will we still help them? I completely understand the need and the importance of self survival and keeping family safe. But, i also see the need to group up for a better chance of long term survival and to rebuild/sustain existence. How can we rebuild population if we turn away or shoot every person that comes our way? Think about it....Your children will be the last generation unless you open up and build a new community. I myself i am a christian man and will find it difficult to turn a person in need away, that being said, i WILL NOT hesitate to put a hole in anyone with the intent of hurting my group.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Morals will go out the door UNTIL things settle down for a while. How long will that take is anyone guess. Until that point it will be survival of the fittest/smartest. Helping a lot unprepared sheeple isn't in my plan.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

It all depends on the situation.. I posted a few situations we had this past winter where Indians from the rez close to here knocked on our door at 1am because they were stuck and had flat tire.. Another situation where I pulled up next to a car full of them on our hill and asked if I could help. The older one actually said "Hey, we just got into a fight. Will you help me pull him out of the car and kill him?" I said "Maybe next time. You are on private property and need to go." The 3rd time which was only about a month ago we came across 2 that were walking down the road cause they were higher than a kite and killed a cow(not ours fortunately).. 

If it were a major shtf event. They would have probably had different endings and the coyotes and buzzards would be eating good.. I will still have my morals but they might be changed a little and I know I will be the one alive.. I am all for helping people but someone needs to be able to take care of themselves to start with. There are MANY people that would starve to death because they can't fish,garden,hunt or even be able to clean them if they were killed.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I struggle with the idea you present. I would find difficult to turn people in need away. If I take food away from my family and give them, I feel they will simply return for more tomorrow. They will most likely tell others of the wonderful people that give them food. Eventually, I'll have to stop feeding them. Will they simply say, "Ok, thanks a lot," and wonder away? Or will they attack and take what they want? I fear attacking. If they were preppers who were attacked and robbed, I would be much more favorably inclined to help. Their attitude and knowledge would be useful to me. My initial inclination is to stay hidden and not to share, but...


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Morals, for the most part, have already gone, along with courtesy, politeness, and respect.

It will only get worse.


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

I do agree with you, to a point. I'm not talking about giving hand-outs, i'm talking about building a community where everyone helps, helps gardening, building, fortifying, defending and living. Obviously none of this would happen during the height of the SHTF scenario..I just think keeping an open mind to this would be a good idea for when things simmer down.


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

If you kill everyone that comes your way, how can a society (a peaceful one) be rebuilt?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Civility is a societal construct meant to round off the corners so that people can keep the abrasiveness of being around each other to a minimum.

Morality is an understanding of right from wrong, good from evil.

It would seem that people are becoming less civil, losing sight of right from wrong and are becoming cold-hearted with regard to their fellow man.

Do you think society will maintain its morality when there are no societal constraints?

Yesterday, I read an article about a young mother involved in a vehicle crash. While she was dying and her child was in a child seat, onlookers rushed to the vehicle and stole her groceries.


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

I guess we will just have to wait and see how it works out.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Yea, and hopefully some of us will be around to discuss it--


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

It would take a lot to exterminate my family and I. We have a pretty well hidden BOL along with a lot of family and close friends that live close by that also either prep or at least partially self reliant. Only one neighbor could potentially be a liability.....He will be closely watched and dealt with on any SHTF scenario. My group can dig in and have food, water and defensive preps to last a while, and it is also on fertile farm land with most of my group having farming and ag back grounds.


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

I think that's why it's a good idea to have a decent size group all ready made up and have a plan to meet some place when that happens. That way you have a much better chance at keeping your morals.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

this topic comes up a lot 

what will happen?? prepare for the worse, pray for the best


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

Sorry pheniox I'm new here ;-)


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

I plan to have morals. yep. that's the plan.

its important to select your group on proven morals as well as preps and skills.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Important to me is knowing my neighbors. "Entitelists" can wait for the government to come help. Others, to a limited extent, I will help.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I'm gonna ask them a few questions first... How do you feel about gay marriage?, How do you feel about welfare,? How do you feel about Pro-choice? if they answer the affirmative on any single one of the first 3, they get the old heave-ho and sent packing....if they say negative to all three then I ask the who they voted for last time and why? If its a democrat...I might just shoot them. If they say a conservative or they didn't vote then I ask them what is the single most important right in the bill of rights? If they ask what the bill of rights is...I shoot them....if they say The 2nd Amendment then I take them in...if they say 1st amendment...I send them packing with a little grubstake....Talking is overrated! Finally I ask them what they are good at? If its liberal arts, wall street crap, banking, advertising, etc....I just choke the shit out of them. If its something useful I may take them in. As long as they don't oppose my hegemony.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

I have plastic coffee containers with rice & plastic creamer containers with dry beans. these are my handouts to help others. Sorry, but if you don't know how to cook them I can't help you. Nice thing is I get to decide who I give them to.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I intend to board the place up and look as unappealing as possible. *IF* I choose to do any handouts, they will be prepackaged and miniscule, so as to not encourage their return. And by prepackaged, I mean a Ziploc of beans and rice, not something that looks like I took it from a better stocked store of goods.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Outdoor Forums mobile app


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

jbrooks19 said:


> Sorry pheniox I'm new here ;-)


oh it wasn't a dig, this is just a popular topic that's all


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

jbrooks19 said:


> Sorry pheniox I'm new here ;-)


oh it wasn't a dig, this is just a popular topic that's all


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

People by nature live in packs, always have. We are wolves, not mountain lions, it's just our nature, how we survived. I believe after a brief period of going it on our own, we will migrate into small communities. As far as morals, I believe we will return to a much higher standard of morals than we have now (which isn't saying a lot) People coming around in need? it they are very old, or young sick, then yes, help them as much as you can. If they are able bodied male or female, I am sure there are something around that they can do to earn their food, (wood that need chopping, help building something....something. I think we need to put an end to people sitting around waiting to be handed something, what is wrong with our country now. Someone shows up in need let them earn a good day's pay (in food or whatever) for a good day's toil.


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

It will be a hard decision for me, who to turn away and who to help. I think i need to come up with good questions to ask people to asses there morals and mentality


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2014)

i would help a child or a very old person or a sick person without thinking about it. healthy women and men would need to explain themselves and show that they are able to earn their keep.

edit: definition of child is under the age of 15 in my book not 18 lol


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If I knocked on your door tomorrow night just after sundown and asked for something to eat, how many would freely give me food?

The way that that question is answered is the same way it will be answered after the SHTF. It will just be a slower answer or a quicker one.


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## SquirrelBait (Jun 6, 2014)

I think that the hardest part is that it will a different scenario every time someone asks for help.

Here is something that will be hard to say, And hard to hear: There are people who will use their children to garner sympathy, And take advantage of the lady hearted. I have seen it and I have been taken advantage of by these kind of people. Thank God I learned that lesson early instead of when it could really hurt. 

I will feel bad for the helpless come shtf, But I will have to think with my head and not my heart.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Morality Minus Stress Minus Anxiety Minus Fear Equals Tolerance For Society. Variations In Any Of ThE Separate Portions Of The Equations Affect One Another. No Morality Equals No Tolerance. 

No I Do Not Mean Religious Zealots That Kane Women For Not Wearing A Burqua.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Every single time I have driven to Walmart, I see a guy holding his sign, with a little girl playing by his feet. He has a van, with a woman and another child there. Last time I saw him, there was another van, with another family, just hanging out.
EVERYTIME? I thought Walmart had a policy, this guy is inside the walmart parking lot. There is usually one guy at the red light, right off property, so He gets seen by anyone making the right on red stop.
Everytime? I am sorry, I can see anyone, even me, being completely broke, completely destitute, not having a pot to piss in, but, To STAY that way? I see it as a sign, that some people are just better at begging, than working.
How would I react post shtf, just like Paul said, the same as I do today. I would gladly feed the little girl, and allow the father to work for his meal, I cant hold the girl accountable for her piece of trash dad. He would not know how much or what I had, just that he "could earn a meal". Harsh? 
In a post shtf world, with no law, and no rules, I hope to "hunker down" for about a week, and let the "purge" happen for a while, so the scum, lowlife, jackers and grabbers will kill each other off fighting over big screens and Jordans. After a week or so, after the "burning, raping, pillaging" is over, then the real test begins. How to survive, how to rebuild, how to have security for those involved, barter, trade, sell.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Deebo said:


> Every single time I have driven to Walmart, I see a guy holding his sign, with a little girl playing by his feet. He has a van, with a woman and another child there. Last time I saw him, there was another van, with another family, just hanging out.
> EVERYTIME? I thought Walmart had a policy, this guy is inside the walmart parking lot. There is usually one guy at the red light, right off property, so He gets seen by anyone making the right on red stop.
> Everytime? I am sorry, I can see anyone, even me, being completely broke, completely destitute, not having a pot to piss in, but, To STAY that way? I see it as a sign, that some people are just better at begging, than working.
> How would I react post shtf, just like Paul said, the same as I do today. I would gladly feed the little girl, and allow the father to work for his meal, I cant hold the girl accountable for her piece of trash dad. He would not know how much or what I had, just that he "could earn a meal". Harsh?
> In a post shtf world, with no law, and no rules, I hope to "hunker down" for about a week, and let the "purge" happen for a while, so the scum, lowlife, jackers and grabbers will kill each other off fighting over big screens and Jordans. After a week or so, after the "burning, raping, pillaging" is over, then the real test begins. How to survive, how to rebuild, how to have security for those involved, barter, trade, sell.


I'm hoping for the same pattern here, everyone killing each other for high value electronic goods, and the "shopping centre food" like animals

with morals I am going to stick my head in the sand, its me and mine and that's it, there will be plenty of evac centres people can go to....


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## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

after TSHTF I am feeding NO ONE I haven't prepped for-stands to reason, the more food you give away is less for you and yours.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

If a person's moral values change because there are no laws, they are mistaking morals for fear of legal repercussions.

My personal moral code won't change at all. I will help those I can and hurt those who deserve it, same as always.


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## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

I think most peoples morals will go out the window(most have already) when it comes to feeding their family post SHTF.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

This is something I struggle with. I must admit, I like very few people, and I TRUST even fewer. After SHTF, earning enough of my trust for me to allow you into my family (who are we kidding, that's exactly what you'd have to do) would be an impressive feat. Now, I've been prepping for about a year, and been hard core for about 4 months. I continue to develop my preps almost daily. Some of my preps are random and some are calculated precisely. When it comes to things like food stores that feed my family, I don't know that I would just give it indiscriminantly. If it was a mother with child, elderly on their own, I would evaluate accordingly. I think if I had to provide a simple answer to this dilemma, it would be, "it depends." 

I would evaluate every situation on a case by case basis. I think people generally have a clue as to when someone is really in need vs someone just asking for a handout. I will never "handout" my preps; the same way I will not "handout" my trust. If you offer your assistance first, meaning "hey, I am good at such and such, and I will do this to help you, if you'll take me in because I'm starving and have nowhere else to go"...I'd be more likely to consider it than "hey, I'm/We're hungry and in need of food. Can you help me/us?" ESPECIALLY if there are able bodies present in the latter scenario. If able bodies are present, I would be on guard with weapons ready...again, trust is earned. But ideally, I would try and re-establish a community size area (like Woodbury in Walking Dead)...which would be tough at first. But after you have 30-50 able bodies that have earned your trust, life becomes a lot easier.


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## 2Tim215 (Jun 19, 2014)

My biggest fear for post SHTF is my daughter. Never mind the actual event and aftermath, that's a close second coming in almost at a tie. As bad as this world is now it's still a dam sight better than it was 100, even 50 yrs ago. With good planning and a good education and wise upbringing she at least stands a chance, but in a post SHTF world? We have access to so much now if we are wise and work hard. What future would there be for her or anyone in that scenario besides struggle, fight or flight and constant fear of marauding bands, disease, and many more things too numerous to mention? I'm 40, she's going on two. We know it's going to happen and by the signs in this world sooner than later (unless of course the world turns into a Hollywood feel good film) so how does one prepare a child for a world where woman will more than likely nothing more than chattel like they were for so many centuries? And do you even want her to survive to live in a world where rape and abuse would be the norm and good people few and far between? Yes I said it. What father has not thought about it? The mercy shot? It makes me cold to even contemplate it. I would rather the mess we have now than any chance of a SHTF world.


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## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

I'm the other way, I think there has to be a better way than the mess we have now. most people wont survive anyway, the ones that haven't prepped wont last long once the delivery trucks stopped running.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

jbrooks19 said:


> ..When the S hits the F and all hell breaks loose, will we still have morals?...


After thugs rape his daughter in a post-apoc world in the film 'Panic in Year Zero', decent family man Ray Milland tracks them down and bursts into the farmhouse they've taken over to confront them. Will he shoot two unarmed men in cold blood or let them off and risk them doing it again to his or somebody elses daughter or wife?-










Pick it up at 1:09:00





***SPOILER ALERT***
In case youtube pull the vid in the future and leaves people guessing, i'd better just say yes, he blows them both away.
Who'd have thought Ray Milland of all people would do a thing like that!
The moral is that in a SHTF world a man's gotta do..


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

First I plan on being with a group. I come from a large family (11 kids), so it will be family and in-laws. All of my brothers and sisters have firearms and have been using them since we were children. I do believe living in a tight knit group will enhance your chances of survival. 

The hard question is helping others. Just how many people can you feed before you run out of food or other supplies? How many strangers can you house before you and your family are driven out of you own house? 

I think that you are going to have to be very careful about those who you help and how many of them you help. It will be hard but I know that I cannot help everyone, but I do know that I won't be taking advantage and stealing from others.


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## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

trust no one then you wont be surprised when they let you down. feed no one you haven't prepped for.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

big paul said:


> trust no one then you wont be surprised when they let you down. feed no one you haven't prepped for.


Yeah there's a great line spoken by Del Tarrant in Blakes Seven-
_"I trust nobody except myself, that's why I'm still alive"
_
In this '*Survivors*' clip, Greg (the fairhaired guy in the blue jacket) meets a friendly group, what can possibly go wrong?

(Just watch the first 60 seconds if you don't want to watch it all)


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## machinejjh (Nov 13, 2012)

My moral standing will be laying down, when faced with the possibility of choosing between those I love and complete strangers. It's really no choice. Move along, or be carried away.


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## 2Tim215 (Jun 19, 2014)

Or only help those that can help you. But then trust is the main issue. Sometimes you can't even trust family. Look at family businesses that went square coz family turned on family. Who says it won't happen when there's no food?


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## 2Tim215 (Jun 19, 2014)

Actually, the best scenario would be a united front of preppers agreeing on a BOL like an abandoned town that has good farmland etc and creating a fortified town of like minded people looking out for one another with a agreed upon city council that all has an equal vote and speaks for a certain amt of people within the town. You wouldn't even need good farmland if this was planned and everyone contributed a part to a hydroponics farm as part of there prepping.


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## big paul (Jul 14, 2014)

nice idea, never happen.


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