# The modern "clueless" citizen.



## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

(Moderators, if I have placed this thread in the wrong section, please move it, thank you).

I pulled up my usual chair in a mall cafe' and nodded to a great guy. He is a middle-aged, black administrator for the UW Madison, and whom I will only name as "Jeff."

Let me set the scene. In the cafe' there is a little nook of deeply padded chairs. I've noticed that the usual 'dregs' hang out there, and once I saw a guy run in, make his 'drop' to one of the usual vagrants and beat feet to the door. This is pretty normal, as that little nook is part of the "L shaped" floor plan, out of sight and blocked by a large column.

As Jeff and talked recently, I asked him why he sat there. He proffered that he didn't know about the "regulars," he just liked a comfy chair. I asked him if he kept any pepper-spray or similar device, since I know the guy to be a real gentleman. He stated he never carried any defensive devices, at all.

I simply pointed to the food court. Once again, Jeff had never heard about the gangs, the female gangs, the chair fights and the issue of handguns. One idiot shot himself in his own thigh.

Now, the reason my wife and go to this cafe' is that we have done so for over a decade, made friends with the staff, and except for one jealous husband who came in and punched out his wife, the cafe' is peaceful. The food court outside is the place we avoid, and the cafe' has a private entrance.

Jeff will probably never change. I mentioned that Jeff is black, but I've also come to understand that there is another rank of urban blacks, that being the upwardly mobile professional blacks. To them, "crime" is for TV shows, not real life.

I will just ask him to sit with us if my wife and I hear yelling from the food court. But in this day and age, there truly are the innocent and clueless citizens. I rather enjoy their company, but I wonder how they make it through the parking lot...


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I know you like the Mall and All but someone who may not know your skill set may think YOU are the Modern Clueless Citizen for going to the Mall in the first place. 

When I decide to go all "Charles Bronson/Paul Kersey/Death Wish Kill Me Some Thugs", I'm going to the Mall.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, Slip, if you've seen me, you'd know that I wear much the exact same crap I wore in the 1960s. Crappy jeans, motorcycle boots, a jean vest and hair that should have been trimmed two months ago.

The good news is that I just found a pair of jeans I never knew I had. I now have three pair. I burned or gave away all my Dior suits and button down shirts. There was no way in Oshkosh or hell (which might be in the same zip code for all I know) I was ever going to sell myself out again.

Another thing about Madison. I see old bikers all the time. None of them are flying colors, I just know the type. We nod to each other like brothers of the same fraternity.

It's going on nine years (I think) for Wisconsin's CCW law. I've carried every day. Then again I might have carried knives since 1964.

In fact, I play with a knife when I'm at the computer. Today it's a stiletto...


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

> Jeff will probably never change. I mentioned that Jeff is black, but I've also come to understand that there is another rank of urban blacks, that being the upwardly mobile professional blacks. To them, "crime" is for TV shows, not real life.
> 
> I will just ask him to sit with us if my wife and I hear yelling from the food court. But in this day and age, there truly are the innocent and clueless citizens. I rather enjoy their company, but I wonder how they make it through the parking lot...


I am as white as a sheet, and I have been through some Hell in my life; some of my early memories, are being pushed down a hillside, onto rocks, by some punks.
That broke my head open, and I still have the dents in my skull. Anyway, I count myself fortunate that I saw the cruel side of people, early on. 
And now, I have a .45, and I will shoot.:tango_face_smile: I will cut them too, so I am the antithesis of your buddy, or the clueless in general.

PS: I am a broken record, and I know that, it is always the Same Old Stuff with me.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

MisterMills357;1940259. said:


> And now, I have a .45, and I will shoot.


My problem is that I live in Wisconsin. Law enforcement insists that you only use the right modicum of force.

Now I ask you, just what "modicum" should I use if attacked by three bangers? Well, welcome to Wisconsin!

This is no joke, if you're the victor you almost have to provide info that you were originally the victim.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

What if Jeff was really special forces recon, and just didn't tell you?
I'm busting your balls, yes, I see CLUELESS people all the time. Gunshots could go off and they would just look at each other, blankly...


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> My problem is that I live in Wisconsin. Law enforcement insists that you only use the right modicum of force.
> 
> Now I ask you, just what "modicum" should I use if attacked by three bangers? Well, welcome to Wisconsin!
> 
> This is no joke, if you're the victor you almost have to provide info that you were originally the victim.


You know what the modicum of force is. They get to cut you to pieces; and only then, can you consider self defense.
Yes, I know what you are thinking, the state of Wisconsin has it in for you, as a white, law abiding man. And you would be right, if you thought that.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

MisterMills357 said:


> they cut you to pieces


Yes, that's how it starts. Our local thugs (50% mulatto and 50% aboriginal kangaroo), will pull out the cheapest, crappiest, dullest, seven dollar folder and then demand all the money I have.

I nod, I smile, and I pull out an expensive switchblade with a edge that twinkles. It cracks to the locked position.

...I haven't had to cut anyone yet...


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Yes, that's how it starts. Our local thugs (50% mulatto and 50% aboriginal kangaroo), will pull out the cheapest, crappiest, dullest, seven dollar folder and then demand all the money I have.
> 
> I nod, I smile, and I pull out an expensive switchblade with a edge that twinkles. It cracks to the locked position.
> 
> ...*I haven't had to cut anyone yet..*.


I had to cut a man, and he died, but it was his fault. If he had not attacked me, he would still be alive. He busted Hell wide open IMHO; and he died like a fool.
That case helped to change WV self defense statutes. And I would do it again, if I had to.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

MisterMills357 said:


> I had to cut a man, and he died, but it was his fault.


The moment he formulated the plan to rob you it was his fault.

But there is a simple reason why my molesters did not die--I had three years of combative blade training.

The crux of this method began with foils--a mundane practice sword. It might show a man's hand tighten before he thrusts, and any sharp 'smack' with your sword against his creates an 'over-reaction.'

Now, all these hand movements are exaggerated since even a foil is heavier than a common knife. It teaches the rookie where the real threat is to come from. Knowing this, I snap out the switchblade (enough so my attacker has seen it) and then rotate it behind my right leg. I can change finger placement and the idiot will never know it. And once the knife leaves his sight his own panic begins--also a benefit.

It's at this point the 'attacker' raises both hands, and believe it or not, calls me an offensive name. The putz has been outed as a coward, but *it's me* who gets cat-called...

(BTW, I just got a new folder, a Dwyer/Strider SnG. I'll miss all nine of the daily Italian made stilettos, because they make the best idiot stabbers. At my age you need a knife for food, not fools. Below is my "mall knife." These stilettos are known as "eleven inch models," as the blade is five inches long and the handle is six. Oh, and you'll notice it's made in Italy, as is my entire collection. Good stuff comes from Italy...).


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Never heard of a black guy named Jeff. Are you sure?


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> The moment he formulated the plan to rob you it was his fault.
> 
> (BTW, I just got a new folder, a Dwyer/Strider SnG. I'll miss all nine of the daily Italian made stilettos, because they make the best idiot stabbers. At my age you need a knife for food, not fools. Below is my "mall knife." These stilettos are known as "eleven inch models," as the blade is five inches long and the handle is six. Oh, and you'll notice it's made in Italy, as is my entire collection. Good stuff comes from Italy...).
> 
> View attachment 100945


He did not try to rob me, he was out of his mind on crack, and he decided to kill me. It did not work to his advantage, and he died like a fool.

I just lost my S&W folder, I do that crap a lot, so I get cheap knives.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, to me a "working stiletto" is a cheap knife. I have "people" that can get Sicilian stilettos for under 80 bucks.

Yeah, yeah, I checked 'em out. They come all the way from Northern Italy and they arrive through five or six sets of hands with not a blemish on them. You need to find some, eh, um, duh, insiders--yeah, that's what you need, "*insiders*."

Below are the tools of my trade.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

bigwheel said:


> Never heard of a black guy named Jeff. Are you sure?


Yup, I know him well. We usually meet at the coffee cafe' at the mall. Very intelligent guy, he knows lots of big words, and uses them correctly. That should be a given, because he's an administrator for the UW-Madison.

How many times have you parted company with a friend who described your conversation as "effusive"?


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## BamaDOC (Feb 5, 2020)

The Tourist said:


> Well, to me a "working stiletto" is a cheap knife. I have "people" that can get Sicilian stilettos for under 80 bucks.
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I checked 'em out. They come all the way from Northern Italy and they arrive through five or six sets of hands with not a blemish on them. You need to find some, eh, um, duh, insiders--yeah, that's what you need, "*insiders*."
> 
> ...


ooooooooo purdy!!!

I think this is what a lotta women feel like when they see shoes...


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

BamaDOC said:


> I think this is what a lotta women feel like when they see shoes...


Well, consider this. *There's a second drawer under that one*...

I will admit that over half of these knives were purchased for collectibles or just stuff I had never seen before. Like everyone, I have knives and handguns that fit into the "working" category.

Many of those original stilettos were made out of average steel, not stainless. That took a toll. But without any fanfare, I noticed that many cutlers made the same folders, now just in stainless. Usually that was stamped into the ricasso.

My EDC is stainless, and you do have to use finer polishing stones to get a mirror finish on those knife edges.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> Well, consider this. *There's a second drawer under that one*...
> 
> I will admit that over half of these knives were purchased for collectibles or just stuff I had never seen before. Like everyone, I have knives and handguns that fit into the "working" category.
> 
> ...


Good to have ya back, Chico.
I checked out gen-u-ine Italian automatic stilettos after you gave me the website. Sweet. Right now my stiletto is an assisted opening Kriegar 4" blade.

I can't carry a gun at work, but this is an ultra low crime area anyway. So, in one pocket, a common jack knife. In the other front pocket, a Schrade copy of a Buck 110.
THEN, in my back pocket, for serious use only, like Antifa or BLM, is that razor sharp Tops Mil-Spie 3.5" Tanto liner lock.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Good to have ya back, Chico.


Well, I'm glad to hear it. I kind of 'snuck' onto the forum again hoping that any former enemies would now be too senile to remember me. Of course, I might also be too old to remember them...

A few weeks ago I got the polishing itch, and I'll admit, it did feel good. I've been carrying around a bargain basement folder just to open UPS boxes and the like. It bothered me, so I polished the edge, and then, well, you know how this stuff gets!


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Good to have ya back, Chico.
> I checked out gen-u-ine Italian automatic stilettos after you gave me the website. Sweet. Right now my stiletto is an assisted opening Kriegar 4" blade.


That sounds interesting. Care to share?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

inceptor said:


> That sounds interesting. Care to share?


Horizon Bladeworks
www.nicnac.net/index.html

Automatic knives are legal in Florida. I don't know if your state is the same.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

inceptor said:


> That sounds interesting. Care to share?


Assisted opening knives are legal in all 50, and the blade deploys just as fast as an automatic.
The Kriegar line of assisted opening stilettos are very inexpensive, but well made, and function properly. They are liner locks, one hand deploy, one hand fold up.
Mine has the black wood handle, link here www.kennesawcutlery.com/Kriegar-Black-Stiletto-Assisted-Opening-Pocket-Kni-44158
Blade took some work to get good and sharp. A stiletto is a thruster, not a slasher, and doesn't really need to have real sharp edges.

I bought a white faux pearl handle one for the wife.

I'm a big customer of both Kennesaw Cutlery and Smoky Mountain Knife Works.
Blades are very addictive to me.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Horizon Bladeworks
> www.nicnac.net/index.html
> 
> Automatic knives are legal in Florida. I don't know if your state is the same.


Thanks. I have no idea if they are legal here or not but it's worth looking into.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Assisted opening knives are legal in all 50, and the blade deploys just as fast as an automatic.
> The Kriegar line of assisted opening stilettos are very inexpensive, but well made, and function properly. They are liner locks, one hand deploy, one hand fold up.
> Mine has the black wood handle, link here www.kennesawcutlery.com/Kriegar-Black-Stiletto-Assisted-Opening-Pocket-Kni-44158
> Blade took some work to get good and sharp. A stiletto is a thruster, not a slasher, and doesn't really need to have real sharp edges.
> ...


Several of mine are assisted. I work them when they come in until they open quite easily. Normally they are a little stiff new.

I have a stiletto that I took off of a guy in the early 70's. He said he would cut me up. Instead he took a whoopin and I took the knife. I still have that one. :tango_face_grin:


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

inceptor said:


> Several of mine are assisted. I work them when they come in until they open quite easily. Normally they are a little stiff new.
> 
> I have a stiletto that I took off of a guy in the early 70's. He said he would cut me up. Instead he took a whoopin and I took the knife. I still have that one. :tango_face_grin:


That is the perfect knife in my book! A free knife that comes with a story...

I have a few fairly expensive knives but my absolute favorite is a little assisted open Kershaw that I picked up on Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco about 10 years ago. I had not been to SFO for a while and did not realize how badly the city had decayed in my absence. I picked it up because I wanted something more than the jack knife that I usually carry when traveling on business. That one has become my goto knife for castrating bulls. The blade is absolutely the perfect shape for the task. It does not hold an edge as well as some of my better knives but who cares? I just carry a small oilstone in my pocket and clean the blade up every 5 or 6 calves and it is perfect.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Inor said:


> That is the perfect knife in my book! A free knife that comes with a story...
> 
> I have a few fairly expensive knives but my absolute favorite is a little assisted open Kershaw that I picked up on Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco about 10 years ago. I had not been to SFO for a while and did not realize how badly the city had decayed in my absence. I picked it up because I wanted something more than the jack knife that I usually carry when traveling on business. That one has become my goto knife for castrating bulls. The blade is absolutely the perfect shape for the task. It does not hold an edge as well as some of my better knives but who cares? I just carry a small oilstone in my pocket and clean the blade up every 5 or 6 calves and it is perfect.


Mmmm!! I've had good ol' Georgia deep fried hog nuts, do you eat the bull nuts?
Hog nuts are small and tender, taste kinda like beef liver.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Mmmm!! I've had good ol' Georgia deep fried hog nuts, do you eat the bull nuts?
> Hog nuts are small and tender, taste kinda like beef liver.


The balls and ears are for the dogs. They definitely earn it. One good dog is worth 3 cowboys. Plus, the dogs usually do not show up drunk.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Ahhh, I see you mentioned my buddies and knife entrepreneurs, that would be *Joyce and Nick*. If they don't have it for you it also means their Italian supplier doesn't have it either. It's a family business with them as the husband has been sick. But Joyce knows where every knife or ice-pick is located in their inventory, and she gets products sent to you within a few days, not a few months.

You can call them at *828-884-4302*.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I don't want or need tacto-cool stuff.

I have had an Uncle Henry Scharde, Buck 110, or Bucklite in my pocket since about 7th grade. Good folders, and I can grab them quick. Sort of like being naked without one.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

inceptor said:


> That sounds interesting. Care to share?


No problem. But I did use two sources. _CRKT advertises in the A.G.Russell catalog_.

The knife discussed is a CRKT G-10 "Tuna Folder," no kidding. You can find it on *Page 23* of the *Late Fall 2020* A.G. Russell Knives catalog. Personally I think the 44 dollar price was an abject steal. Heck, some cutlers charge that much just for the sheath!

The nomenclature is quite basic. It's a drop-point folder whose blade is 8Cr14MoV stainless with a working strength of 58-60 Rc. Yes, I suppose some clutz broke a knife with that pedigree, but I don't know him. I like to use good, solid basic folders, and I've never even chipped a folder like this. The decorative front grip is olive drab G-10 with a solid stainless steel obverse side with a factory added pocket clip.

If you work in your jeans sooner or later you'll ding up your knife and probably send it to guys like me for a repair. But a tune up on a 44 dollar knife is lot easier to digest than a fancy-schmancy ego folder costing 200 dollars plus shipping.

Mine is in the mail, and we service what we buy, as well. Essentially you should buy what you work in...


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## ActionJackson (Sep 4, 2020)

The Tourist said:


> My problem is that I live in Wisconsin. Law enforcement insists that you only use the right modicum of force.
> 
> Now I ask you, just what "modicum" should I use if attacked by three bangers? Well, welcome to Wisconsin!
> 
> This is no joke, if you're the victor you almost have to provide info that you were originally the victim.


Modicum = 9mm instead of .44 Mag.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I know this is a late time to bring this up, but wasn't there a writer to a blade magazine (these articles are in the front pages) that proffered automatic knives were now legal in all fifty states?

The idea was that since the "law" was now recognized in all fifty states, folding knives (including automatic knives) were also grandfathered in by the new statute.

I was once having coffee in the beverage shop of 'Barnes & Noble' when I noticed a police officer was taking a break, as well. He asked me what I did, and I just mentioned "salesman." Then I grinned and handed over a 'sample.'

He never said a word. He clicked open the knife, asked about pricing and then handed me back the folder. He then told me something I had not heard. Supposedly the statute of automatic knives was technically still on the books--but he also added that, "_so is still jay-walking_." The hassle it would take him and his partner to arrest, search, send for a squad car and then book a citizen for a "knife" would cost several times their wages over an arrest of a peaceful citizen.

However, the more I asked several sources I found that "_knives were legal in Wisconsin_," while others said "knives are not legal" in some places of Wisconsin.

Of course, I once found out that a police officer became my new neighbor. I walked directly to his house, welcomed him and his family to the neighborhood and showed him some of my samples. We had a nice chat, and he handed all the "illegal knives" back to me.

The background on this was pretty simple. In conversations the officers admitted that if a guy was sitting drinking coffee and opening his mail with a switchblade they would just ignore the issue. However, if a guy pulled a switchblade on a citizen, then the attacker would be arrested for "drawing a weapon." Same knife, differing circumstances.

To that, I think opinions in Wisconsin have gotten more slack. Just a few years ago a switchblade in any circumstances would get you tossed to the ground and handcuffed. Now senior citizens like me are viewed with possession of a "simple letter opener."

Funny how times change. You open a switchblade in public and nobody cares. You harangue a lurker over the internet and you could do some serious time.

And here's a laugh--I have double-jointed thumbs. Technically, I could apply--and receive--for some form of abnormality on my Wisconsin Drivers' License. I have no problem at all activating the buttons and levers in my truck, along with any lever of an automatic knife. But like I said, this is Wisconsin. This means that 'handicapped is handicapped.'


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