# Swimming in oil?



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I've recently read that huge oil deposits were discovered in SW Australia, and fracking in the US will end foreign oil dependency. That by 2030 the US will unseat OPEC as the leading exporter of light crude. Wishful thinking?


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Reality.
Canada and the US are poised to supply our oil need almost exclusively.
BUT!!! A large part of the equation is getting more hybrids and other fuel efficient cars on the road, converting to LED's, enhancing solar and wind power, etc. This will be a multi-fuel source solution.

Just like when you prep, you don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

Now if you want CHEAPER oil... We need to loosen the grip of the EPA. If you build a new refinery it has to meet laws and regulations so stringent, that gas would be $12 a gallon. But if you continue to use old, obsolete, wasteful refineries built in the Post WWII boom, then you get grandfathered in and you get to make gas for $3.88 that spews out pollutants. There is a middle ground. Just make reasonable requirements that don't choke out our production and you can have gas that is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than today and CLEANER TO PRODUCE.

Problem is that none of the Eco-Dems want to put their name on a bill that reduces requirements. Even if it makes better sense.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

1). I'm no expert, I'm posting info learned from an oky oilman. He noted once the wells in Saud and the middle east are so wildly more productive then ours we could never compete. His chatter was something about barrels a day vs costs? 

2). ANWAR. Remember that one. Look it up online google earth. Then look 80 miles across the border to the east. The Canucks are beating us too it. Nice of us huh!

3). Recognize the hoopla on the oil pipeline is about warren buffet v Canada. Don't know who wins, but he owns the trains that ship it now, and they want a pipeline to cut him out.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

I don't know enough of about oil production to say much, except that my family followed the oil boom from Odessa Texas to Farmington NM in the mid 80's. Right now, in 2013 the local oilfield has been "halted" by "new pit laws" having seriously hindered the operations here. Right now, supposedly Odessa Texas has the lowest unemployment in the US, the Oilfield is BOOMING..I have relatives who have also moved to Montana and Pennsylvania with their "mid level" oilfield jobs.
My inside connection tells me that two of the big local drilling companies are "contracted to BOOM in 2014". I have been told we have enough Oil and Gas in the US that we could be "Suadi Rich" if we would just do as GT states, and carefully, responsibly gather the recources we have.
THe news of this OILBOOM in my county has me rethinking my plans, becouse alot of the "migrant oilfield welders" have travel trailers and lots with utilities here bring a handsome price. Food for thought..


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## alon (Aug 3, 2013)

where you read it?? I am surprised to hear....


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I think the US should more or less leave its oil in place. Let's use up all the mid east's oil, THEN start tapping our own. By then everyone in China will have a car, and the oil will be much more valuable.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Some of what you hear is hype, for instance, when you extract oil from oil shale you get more stuff than you started with. When do you put the extra "stuff"? All so the reason Middle East oil is still popular is that it is much cheaper to produce even after factoring in shipping it halfway around the world. We need to stop generating electricity with fossil fuels.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

I don't know much about oil production I do know that the idea of the Chinese and Arabs waiving there little red or green books at each other while we sit over here with plenty of home produced fuel and no trade deficit brings a smile to my face.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Deebo said:


> I don't know enough of about oil production to say much, except that my family followed the oil boom from Odessa Texas to Farmington NM in the mid 80's. Right now, in 2013 the local oilfield has been "halted" by "new pit laws" having seriously hindered the operations here. Right now, supposedly Odessa Texas has the lowest unemployment in the US, the Oilfield is BOOMING..I have relatives who have also moved to Montana and Pennsylvania with their "mid level" oilfield jobs.
> My inside connection tells me that two of the big local drilling companies are "contracted to BOOM in 2014". I have been told we have enough Oil and Gas in the US that we could be "Suadi Rich" if we would just do as GT states, and carefully, responsibly gather the recources we have.
> THe news of this OILBOOM in my county has me rethinking my plans, becouse alot of the "migrant oilfield welders" have travel trailers and lots with utilities here bring a handsome price. Food for thought..


It's not just the Midland/Odessa area but Wise County has the Barnett Shale and there is another field in and around Victoria. The employment growth in the support and technical services industries is astounding.

We have had three guys leave where I work in the last 2 years, one who's last day was yesterday, to work in Midland on a two week on one week off rotation with all living expenses and transportation paid. The average _take home _pay is between $1700 and $2000 a week for the guys who left earlier.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

The problem with fracking is the contaminating of water.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Fracking doesn't contaminate water.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Those that have had their water contaminated would disagree with you.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Gotta single documented case?


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Ripon said:


> ANWAR. Remember that one. Look it up online google earth. Then look 80 miles across the border to the east. The Canucks are beating us too it.











Oh yes I would!


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Our government will stop that from ever happening.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

How's this for a start roy?

Landowners: Fracking created toxic damage to land, water | wkyc.com

http://www.kentohio.net/kent-area-outdoor-activities/hydraulic-fracking


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I just think it would be nice to see the US return to being an energy exported instead of an energy importer. Since 1972 we've been under OPEC's thumb, they have had the capacity to control the fossil fuel markets and haven't been shy about it. 

Not saying we should use energy independence to pay back OPEC for the last 40 years of manipulating the fossil fuel market. Rather it would be nice to be able to say to them thanks we've got it covered.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I partly agree. My partly means we should take our oil and use the proceeds to insure we have clean, affordable, non fossil fuels in place. If we tagged each barrel of oil with $10 in added cost and actually used that $10 on producing clean and renewable energy I'd be all for it. Unf the bureaucrats would steal $7.59 and we'd get a $2.41 benefit.



roy said:


> Some of what you hear is hype, for instance, when you extract oil from oil shale you get more stuff than you started with. When do you put the extra "stuff"? All so the reason Middle East oil is still popular is that it is much cheaper to produce even after factoring in shipping it halfway around the world. We need to stop generating electricity with fossil fuels.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> How's this for a start roy?
> 
> Landowners: Fracking created toxic damage to land, water | wkyc.com
> 
> Hydraulic Fracking


That wasn't caused by fracking just plain ole illegal dumping. Try again.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/09/frac-j09.html


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Oil is either abundant or scarce depending on the price.

I do know we are giving China the upper hand on North American oil. Most all the old and very rich are invested with Buffett. They are getting even richer carrying crude oil from the northern mid-west and southern Canada by rail. This is unnecessary. Pipelines are safer and cheaper.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> Scientific study confirms groundwater contamination by hydraulic fracturing - World Socialist Web Site


Are you sure you want to use World Socialist Website as a source?


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Feds Link Water Contamination to Fracking for the First Time - ProPublica


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

"In the report released today, the EPA said that pollution from 33 abandoned oil and gas waste pits – which are the subject of a separate cleanup program – are indeed responsible for some degree of shallow groundwater pollution in the area. Those pits may be the source of contamination affecting at least 42 private water wells in Pavillion. But the pits could not be blamed for contamination detected in the water monitoring wells 1,000 feet underground."

Fracking has been going on for more than 50 years. I would be surprised if there weren't a few cases of contaminated ground water. Do you have any idea how much ground water contamination occurs because of conventional drilling or coal mining? Do you know of any human endeavor that is without risk. 

I live on the edge of the Eagle Ford shale. I sure hope they frack my land.


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## Drakenk (Aug 5, 2013)

Well i do know that the concept, of the Japan and China waiving there little green or natural guides at each, other while we sit over here with a lot of house created energy and no trade lack delivers a grin to my experience.

Forklift Trucks


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

I can't believe anyone can honestly say they believe chemicals can be injected into the earth & all those chemicals recovered.


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## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

We can keep exchanging pro and anti articles until we're blue in the face, but we need the oil. The "clean" energy that some talk about can't support this country. Maybe someday it will. It just can't do it as it stands now.

FWIW: Here's a pro-fracking article.
Fracking: Drilling Past The Myths | RedState


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## Adan699 (Feb 27, 2013)

Certain two facts on this post unequivocally the best we have all had. US should more or less keep its oil in position. Oil is either abundant or scarce depending on the price.


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## IngaLisa (Jan 31, 2013)

First of all, much of the oil and gas fracked in the US is going abroad. That is why they are building pipelines and super-ports all over, including the Great Lakes, which contain 10% of the world fresh water supply. The Great Lakes could become a dead zone. Gas and Oil isn't concerned about who gets this gas and oil, only who will pay the most for it and right now that is China. These are multinational companies, they don't care about nationalism or patriotism. They care about profit.

Secondly, yes, fracking forever removes water from the water cycle. They put in high capacity wells that drain the water from aquifers drying them up completely. They have to dump this dirty water somewhere, and they are putting it into injection wells far below the aquifers hoping it doesn't migrate into the aquifers, but that isn't working. Aquifers are contaminated with methane from fracking as well. Water is the new oil. Soon we will be paying what many of the folks in Pennsylvania pay for water, $1000 per month.

Water is just one issue. The flaring releases enormous amounts of methane into the atmosphere, then there are also the earthquakes.

Fracking is extremely dangerous. I am surprised a liberal president would be pushing it so ardently as his energy policy.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Who in Pennsysvania pays $1,000/month for water?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I am curious why the US government allows the oil that comes from US wells to be shipped overseas and then we get to pay for oil imported from overseas. Seems convoluted at best and a way to keep prices high.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

paraquack said:


> I am curious why the US government allows the oil that comes from US wells to be shipped overseas and then we get to pay for oil imported from overseas. Seems convoluted at best and a way to keep prices high.


Why would the government have a say about where I send my oil? If I get $100/barrel to send it down the refinery pipeline and I get $106/barrel to send it down the tanker pipeline who else but me should make that decision?

Are you a freedom lover or socialist? The answer to that is in the above question.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

There are already laws that govern the price of oil and gas related to the age of the supplying well. The producers can get much more for products from "new" wells than they can from old wells. Why should the sell product from "old" wells in this country when they can get much more on the world market? Why go to the expense of processing crude from our country when we can get it cheaper from others? Why not sell on the world market and make more money?


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

There are folks who would sell out the U.S. for a buck.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

There is a profound difference between selling out your (our) country and exercising your rights to do as you please with your property.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Really. They threw a fit when I tried to put a brothel on my property. It is just business when folks like Mitt Romney send jobs to India and China.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I hope you give Mittens as much credit for savings thousands of American jobs as you do blast him for using overseas labor so we could afford less expensive products - an effort that has saved American's probably billions or trillions of dollars.



roy said:


> Really. They threw a fit when I tried to put a brothel on my property. It is just business when folks like Mitt Romney send jobs to India and China.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

In a non socialist, capitalist society you are allowed to sell your product to the highest bidder, no matter who they are, foreign or domestic.

However, when you are extracting oil from shale miles down, drilling on a horizontal plane, under federal and privately owned property, It is not your oil, nor is it the oil of the company extracting it, nor is it the oil of the congressman who sits on the commission that you paid off.

It is the property of the citizens of that country.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

alterego said:


> In a non socialist, capitalist society you are allowed to sell your product to the highest bidder, no matter who they are, foreign or domestic.
> 
> However, when you are extracting oil from shale miles down, drilling on a horizontal plane, under federal and privately owned property, It is not your oil, nor is it the oil of the company extracting it, nor is it the oil of the congressman who sits on the commission that you paid off.
> 
> It is the property of the citizens of that country.


I believe the leases are written to account for this. Horizontal drilling is actually drilling at an angle. Normally either the depth and angle are limited so as to stay within the leased property.

Often mining results in following veins from one property owner to another. The owner of the land under which the ore is extracted receives the royalty payment. Look up the symble MSB this iron trust often receives little or no royalty as the vein wonders off the trust property.

Since this is a widely accepted practice for a hundred years I doubt the US Geological Servey has failed to account for where this oil is taken. Such practices are far less damaging to the environment.

I do feel sorry for land owners that failed to include subsoil rights when they purchased their land. It must be tough scratching out a living paying a mortgage while the former owner collects royalties.

Regardless I have no doubt the rightful owner of the area from which oil is taken is getting paid royalties, lease payments or both.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Who owns a river, lake or a pocket of natural gas?


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

roy said:


> Who owns a river, lake or a pocket of natural gas?


It varies by state I own to the middle of the creek behind my house. You can legally float through my property but cannot wade.

Generally speaking when one gains the right to drill for anything they are entitle to anything that flows to that well.

I do not know this for sure but I have been told the state owns resources in commonwealth states. But that seems wrong to me.

What in particular is bothering you.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Nothin' bothers me much. I own about 300 acres with water and most of the mineral rights. You ever wonder what the world would be like if all property was privately held. How would you get to the store, go any where?


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## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

roy said:


> Nothin' bothers me much. I own about 300 acres with water and most of the mineral rights. You ever wonder what the world would be like if all property was privately held. How would you get to the store, go any where?


It was only fairly recently that the state "owned" the roads. As late as the early 1900s, most roads were privately built, and the land owner had the option of charging a toll.


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