# Lessons gleaned from his SHTF location situation



## SierraGhost (Feb 14, 2017)

Came across this yesterday. Lot's of lessons to be learned from his SHTF property and misfortune.

https://www.mdcreekmore.com/strategic-relocation/

Cliff's Notes: 
Purchased 20 acres with cabin, fruit trees and an artesian well, below the snow line. 
Was fixing it up on weekends as his SHTF place to go to.
Then 'medical' marijuana growers moved into the area and on the property next door.
Bringing with it; crime, deer poaching, etc, tons of water use which caused his well to dry up etc.

Mods, please move / delete this if it is inappropriate.


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

That is bad, you buy the land thinking ypu would have some peace and quiet away from the city, and this happens... 
I once saw some land for sale (it was just woodland), for a very low place, and it was a decent size and all. When I checked were it was located, I realized it was nearby a native reserve area, one that is known for its problematic inhabitants. I gave up on buying that land because of its neighbours.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Pesky old trouble making hippies.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

SierraGhost said:


> Came across this yesterday. Lot's of lessons to be learned from his SHTF property and misfortune.
> 
> https://www.mdcreekmore.com/strategic-relocation/
> 
> ...


I dont see anything inappropriate. It's a great cautionary tale. I think people should give it a read.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You won't own any land in California in the future away. State will own it all . California is a place to be avoided.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

So what's wrong with using a gun and a shovel? :vs_worry:


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sorta reminds me of a story one of my old now deceased chums told about some land and a house he was was looking at in rurual Tennesee a few years back. He said the price was real reasonable and there was a very cool hill behind it covered with green vegetation. He noticed a guy who lived close out in his his front yard and the pal stoppped to ask him about the property. The guy said..its a nice place. One thing is the green stuff on the hill is marijuana and its owned by the Sheriff. The Hells Angels show up on their motorcycles to pland and arvest periodically...so if they are out there running around its best to stay in the house till they leave. He chickened out on buying the place.


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Too many holes to dig? 
You would need some machinery to do the job


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

the guy became an outsider to the growers that moved in >>>> not toooo surprised he had problems - very clannish types and live the WROL lifestyle ....


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Photos of illegal activity and dropping a dime to the DEA and Game Comission would be a start. Does nothing for the well though.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> Photos of illegal activity and dropping a dime to the DEA and Game Comission would be a start. Does nothing for the well though.


Guess a community water well aint that good of a plan. Did have an old pal who hit a good one on his own lake property...started his own water company and piped it into his neighbors. Made a lot of money at it last I heard. He had the only game on the block for those who didnt want to dig their own well.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Really good neighbors are worth their weight in gold, no doubt. That is so important!

“The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because generally they are the same people.” 
― G.K. Chesterton


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Invest in pigs, then there is no reason to dig holes...


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> Photos of illegal activity and dropping a dime to the DEA and Game Comission would be a start. Does nothing for the well though.


They already know it is going on and where , they won't enforce the law.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Steve40th said:


> Invest in pigs, then there is no reason to dig holes...


Wood Chipper! :tango_face_grin:


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

Steve40th said:


> Invest in pigs, then there is no reason to dig holes...


Would not the pigs gets sick by ingesting such individuals?


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I'd be looking for an abandoned mine shaft.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Anyone who says drug use is a victim less crime is sadly mistaken, or deliberately lying.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> They already know it is going on and where , they won't enforce the law.


Then there are two choices: accept it or utilize the three s theory of solving problems.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Camel923 said:


> Then there are two choices: accept it or utilize the three s theory of solving problems.


What's that? Three S? Never heard of it.

As an aside, my husband and I were looking at some property, like about 10 acres of land in the mountains. It was a while back, over the summer. No sooner had we pulled up when the neighbors came right down to the edge of their property (within ears distance), started shouting back and forth to each other. Well, we got the message. They didn't want neighbors--any neighbors. And likewise, we didn't want them to be our neighbors! Just sayin'.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> Then there are two choices: accept it or utilize the three s theory of solving problems.


Wait for a dry day and start a fire go to lunch dome where. Government knows where everyone Pot plantation is . Simple to map it from the air they do it all the time.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Annie said:


> What's that? Three S? Never heard of it.
> 
> As an aside, my husband and I were looking at some property, like about 10 acres of land in the mountains. It was a while back, over the summer. No sooner had we pulled up when the neighbors came right down to the edge of their property (within ears distance), started shouting back and forth to each other. Well, we got the message. They didn't want neighbors--any neighbors. And likewise, we didn't want them to be our neighbors! Just sayin'.


Shot, Shovel and Shut up.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> Shot, Shovel and Shut up.


I like shoot, shovel, and shut up. It's decisive, it's proactive, and there are no repercussions. :tango_face_grin:


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> I like shoot, shovel, and shut up. It's decisive, it's proactive, and there are no repercussions. :tango_face_grin:


Exactamundo!


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

This is a big part of why I didn't get land in Colorado as I was once planning to do. Mountainous land or cheap high desert land in the west is attractive because of the natural beauty and the perception that wild game is abundant, but water is at a premium everywhere west of the Rockies. All it takes is one neighbor nearby digging a well and yours can go dry. Water rights to any surface water tends to be extremely expensive, if you can find someone to sell you theirs, because it's usually all spoken for even if you own the property the stream flows over. 

Also there are the various issues that hippies tend to bring. If they don't respect laws or property rights when times are good, how do you think they will react when SHTF? Finally, the fact that the federal government "manages" so much land in the American west means that wildfires are a constant risk. 

After realizing the many issues with buying mountain land, I bought a hill in Kansas (they do exist.) My view is excellent, my water supply is abundant and my neighbors are all respectable, god fearing folk. Most midwestern states have water rights that automatically pass to the owner of the land the water flows over. It was also a whole lot cheaper than shelling out for a comparable acreage in CA or CO. Unlike high desert living, I get more than enough average monthly rainfall even in the driest months of the year to make rainwater harvesting easily feasible and crop irrigation almost completely unnecessary. I'm also allowed to rainwater harvest, unlike most western states where many states see rainwater harvesting as "taking" from the people who already bought up the rights to the watershed. 

Although the west has a reputation for excellent hunting, if deer and water are what you're after you really can't beat the Midwest. We have white-tails around here, none of those gristly mule deer that predominate west of the Rockies, and they exist in greater numbers due to the lack of natural predators (we shot them all.) There are plenty of remote areas in the midwest far from cities, maybe they won't be quite as defensible as a perfect mountain valley, but they won't box you in like a mountain valley will either. Plenty of directions to escape if need be, and no chance of snipers from higher ground in most places due to the generally flatter layout.

Big takeaway from this story IMHO is that the character of the local community is a very important thing when it comes to choosing a bugout location. Is the community functional, is it safe, are the people law abiding, do they have a somewhat unifying moral code? Are there enough resources locally that the whole community wouldn't necessarily start stealing from each other and killing each other at the first sign of resource shortages? The answer to that last question in most western states is unfortunately no. In a desert town, complete anarchy will be the new normal as soon as the semis stop running. 

I've lived all over the country. The west is a beautiful place and I've met many fine people there, but there is something I've noticed in Oregon, California, New Mexico, and Colorado that seems to be a sort of thematic thread that runs through them all. The west is a place of individuals, the descendants of people who forged out into the unknown frontier to strike their fortunes. It makes for some delightfully quirky, interesting sorts of folks and sub-communities. But the greater communities as a whole tend to not be very strong. There just isn't really anything that culturally binds them together. You've got atheists, traditional and non-traditional religious types, people who believe in aliens, hippies smoking dope, and ******** rolling coal all mixed up in the same place, even in the very small towns. The west isn't a very culturally cohesive place, nor should it be, with it's history. In fact, I think that is part of it's charm and allure. However all that quirk doesn't make for a community that is likely to come together in the case of SHTF.


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## soyer38301 (Jul 27, 2017)

Yavanna said:


> That is bad, you buy the land thinking ypu would have some peace and quiet away from the city, and this happens...
> I once saw some land for sale (it was just woodland), for a very low place, and it was a decent size and all. When I checked were it was located, I realized it was nearby a native reserve area, one that is known for its problematic inhabitants. I gave up on buying that land because of its neighbours.


Wife and I are finding the same issue looking for prop in northern AZ. Most of the decently priced properties are by towns with a very high crime rate (and reservations).

While this may or may not find its way to the areas we were looking at, I really don't want to don a kevlar vest everytime I need to head to town.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Jayhawker said:


> ....... I bought a hill in Kansas (they do exist.)........


Have you found out who owns the other one? :vs_laugh:

Sorry,........ I couldn't resist!


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## Yavanna (Aug 27, 2018)

soyer38301 said:


> Yavanna said:
> 
> 
> > That is bad, you buy the land thinking ypu would have some peace and quiet away from the city, and this happens...
> ...


or the location has no road acess, no electricity, no water springs, wells or rivers nearby... Those are also cheap, but not worth it the end. 
I saw some ads for lands, good places, just plantations on everyside, no close houses, located in good cities, but they cost a fortune... I look at the price and think Whaaaaat? 
One needs pacience and a lot of research to pick up a good location.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I remember when Bo Gritz started a commune in Idaho (I believe that's the location). Due to the topography, even a government airplane or chopper had to follow the only road into the complex. I don't know if the place even exists.

I told my wife that we might consider going there before things got tough. I told her we'd be welcomed. I can cast bullets, polish, and fix small machines and appliances, and she's a teacher. I believed that "sweat equity" might get us in to a place like that.

I don't think a singular man will be able to make it, there's also the problem with a deteriorating mind set and anxiety. When someone is down among people it follows that someone is up.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

For those of you who've managed to buy land in a nice community, like @Jayhawker how did you go about checking out the dynamics of the area? Did you just scope out the neighborhood? Go knocking on people's doors to say hello? What all did you do?


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

I knocked on people's doors. I always do that before buying.


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Annie said:


> For those of you who've managed to buy land in a nice community, like @Jayhawker how did you go about checking out the dynamics of the area? Did you just scope out the neighborhood? Go knocking on people's doors to say hello? What all did you do?


I grew up not far from where I ended up settling down, so I already had some experience with the area but not really with the town. A good place to start is checking the publicly available crime stats. Head to a gas station in the area you're looking at and grab a local paper. Do this a few weeks in a row and get a feel for the problems the community is facing. All communities have issues and the paper is a great way to see what those issues are.

Research the county level policies like building codes, etc. I almost landed in Missouri, but the county I was looking at had so much red tape to build anything that I ended up settling on Kansas. I actually talked with a country lawyer in the county I was planning on moving to in Missouri and paid for an hour of his time which was reasonable (about a hundred bucks.)

He explained to me the various costs of setting up to start doing business in the county, and I found out that there were exorbitant application fees, community referendums of all your neighbors to build just about anything, and a number of planning commission meetings to even start building anything other than a house. I didn't want to put every outbuilding up for a community vote, so I didn't close on that land and went somewhere else.

Search the internet for information about the county you're looking at. See what people are saying about the county government. If you're serious about a particular area, it might be a good idea to give the county planner a call and set up a time to meet him and speak with him or her personally. Get a feel for how the local government works in the area, if they seem willing to work with you and how good of an environment it might be to start a new business.

If you're a religious person, attend a few services at a few different local houses of worship, explaining to any inquisitive townsfolk that you're considering moving there and are looking at different churches. They will likely be more than willing to give you their opinions of the area. In a lot of small towns, the library acts as a sort of all purpose community center. Go to the local library or community center if there is one and grab whatever brochures they have. Get a feel for if there are public events going on, if folks in your area have a culture where they gather together as a community.

If you're a farming type, head over to the local hardware/farm store, or feed store. Check out the local grange if there is one. Places like these tend to be where farmers hang out and talk. 
Take a drive around town, get a feel for the place. Are there kids playing outside? People drinking on their porches? Do the people look happy, do they look methed out? Trust your gut.

Most small towns have some buildings that look dilapidated, but is all of main street abandoned? Are there businesses in town? All you really need in good rural town is one restaurant, one gas station, a grocery store, a bank, a farm store, and a post office. Visit them all, take note of the sorts of people you see there. Does your town have those essentials? If not, how far would you have to drive to get to the things you want? All these are good factors to consider when looking for a good place for a homestead.


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