# Who Thinks The USA Doesn't Already Have a Gun Registry?



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Watch and let us know what you think?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

It's not that there is *A* registry... but *WHICH* registry did they go by to target this law-abiding citizen?

And what's hilarious is...he only showed them ONE gun. I guess they didn't care about the other 6 he had purchased.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

We all know that when you buy a weapon and fill out a 4473 your basically signing a registration. Your name is run through a data base, type, brand, caliber, number bought and serial number is all documented. The local friendly FFL has to give the info to the ATF if asked.

Yes buying multiple guns at one time over a short period will throw a red flag. Is it illegal no but it obviously draws attention. Be smart guys.

Now as far them asking I'd tell them to get the you know what off my lawn.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Do you have any Slippy pikes around still?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> Do you have any Slippy pikes around still?


Don't tell the others...but yes!


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## Underrock (12 mo ago)

If you bought it and filled out the 4473, then _legally_ sold/traded/gifted it at a later date, be sure to make a bill-of-sale and keep a duplicate for your own protection.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

When the 4473 is filled out as to what type, make, caliber, and serial number, the only way the BATFE will get that information is to come and look at the form in person.
It is not called in at any time. The only information given at the time of the NCIS call in is whether it is a hand gun or long gun. Haven't you ever stood there and listened to the conversation? 

IF you buy multiple guns at one time, or exceed a certain number of handguns per month, then the FFL has to alert BATFE. But, again, they would have to come to the store and look at the forms.

This is just a Youtuber trying to whip up the masses by presenting incomplete information.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Of course there's a registry. I'm also sure they have all the members of boards like this one.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> ........It is not called in at any time. The only information given at the time of the NCIS call in is whether it is a hand gun or long gun. Haven't you ever stood there and listened to the conversation?.......


Not done that way here. You apply for a permit, it gets approved and sent to you. You saunter in to the LGS or GShow, fill out the 4473, show 'em your permission slip from The Crown, pays your money and out the door you go.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Not done that way here. You apply for a permit, it gets approved and sent to you. You saunter in to the LGS or GShow, fill out the 4473, show 'em your permission slip from The Crown, pays your money and out the door you go.


I'm sorry that you live behind enemy lines. There's nothing like that in Florida. 
Here, our local gun shops don't even call the main number for the FBI, they do it all on line with a state office in Tallahassee. Takes about a minute, maybe two, if you have a clean report (I do)


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm sorry that you live behind enemy lines. There's nothing like that in Florida.
> Here, our local gun shops don't even call the main number for the FBI, they do it all on line with a state office in Tallahassee. Takes about a minute, maybe two, if you have a clean report (I do)


You didn't understand my post.

There is NO 'call' to listen to. You apply for a permit, and it gets sent to you.

THEN......... when you want to go buy ANY firearm, you fill out the 4473 (just like you do), show your permit, pay your money and walk out with what you wanted to buy. 

No phone call... no computer form to fill out... no potential waiting.... no "Oh, com back later; NICS is down".


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> When the 4473 is filled out as to what type, make, caliber, and serial number, the only way the BATFE will get that information is to come and look at the form in person.
> It is not called in at any time. The only information given at the time of the NCIS call in is whether it is a hand gun or long gun. Haven't you ever stood there and listened to the conversation?
> 
> IF you buy multiple guns at one time, or exceed a certain number of handguns per month, then the FFL has to alert BATFE. But, again, they would have to come to the store and look at the forms.
> ...


RPD,

What you describe was the original intent. The corruption now is so bad no one can convince me that the BATFE and FBI don't use the information for their corrupt goals


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

So when I close my business Jan 1 and have to send all those 4473's into the ATF. What do you think they will do with said info??

Also when you buy muliple guns at one time as an FFL. I have to fill out this form and send it to the ATF. It cleanly has the info for the guns you bought.

If your stupid enough to do this numerous times over a short period of time. The gestapo will notice.

This only took me a minute to find on line. How can this even be an argument. Just look it up. 



https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/report-multiple-sale-or-other-disposition-pistols-and-revolvers-atf-form-33104/download


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Chipper said:


> So when I close my business Jan 1 and have to send all those 4473's into the ATF. What do you think they will do with said info??.......


They don't need to wait until you close up shop. The reason they revamped the 4473 so all the information they need for their registry is on the first page. This makes it a gazillion times easier for them to use their phones to snap a shot of every 4473 they 'inspect' when they 'visit' your shop. 

They can rapidly run those images through OCR software and import it into a database.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Eliminate the BATFE! Farking bunch of commie punks!


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Slippy said:


> Eliminate the BATFE! Farking bunch of commie punks!


The ATF should be a convenience store, not a gubbamint agency.


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

So, when they enter a serial number of a firearm you've purchased, even in another state, and your name comes up with all the info - when, where, what, etc. of your purchase, what is that tied to??


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Michael_Js said:


> So, when they enter a serial number of a firearm you've purchased, even in another state, and your name comes up with all the info - when, where, what, etc. of your purchase, what is that tied to??


Exactly!

Proof there is a registry of firearms based with form 4473 as the basis/starting point.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

When an FFL closes down it is required to send all stored 4473 to the ATF for storage. This alone is a database/registry. Of course the fed govt has been keeping other illegal databases as well.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Had to do a couple checks from the ATF. Gun of interest for investigation is found. Manufacture of gun with serial numbers is contacted where did it get wholesaled to. 

Wholesaler is contacted for info of FFL they transferred it to. AKA your local gun shop. 

Local gun shop gets call. They check their log book of who they sold gun to and transfer that info to ATF off the 4473. 

Now once the business to closed that info is given to the ATF. From dealer sending log book and 4473's. So that info just doesn't disappear. I'm pretty sure it isn't just thrown away.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Chipper said:


> Had to do a couple checks from the ATF. Gun of interest for investigation is found. Manufacture of gun with serial numbers is contacted where did it get wholesaled to.
> 
> Wholesaler is contacted for info of FFL they transferred it to. AKA your local gun shop.
> 
> ...


My understanding is that the ATF has a large storage facility somewhere on the east coast that they keep 4473's that have been turned into them. They are not destroyed.


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## Underrock (12 mo ago)

Let's keep it simple... If you bought it at an FFL facility, and filled out any paperwork, "THEY" know about it.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

RedLion said:


> My understanding is that the ATF has a large storage facility somewhere on the east coast that they keep 4473's that have been turned into them. They are not destroyed.


They're also in the process of digitizing them. Of course, they're not calling it a 'registry', just a 'searchable database'.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

By law, they cannot have a searchable database, so even though they've admitted to creating a digital database, they swear it's not searchable.
Swearsy reallsys. 

As an IT professional with 15 years of DB experience with multiple environments, I call BS.


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## ItsJustMe (Dec 12, 2020)

Kauboy said:


> I call BS.


Amen.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Watch and let us know what you think?


I here what is supposed to be and what is. I will relate a personal experience. I could not find a Glock 21 after moving, so I reported it to the PA state police. When the officer arrived he needed the serial number which I had neglected to record. He said do not say anything about this. In his squad car he got on a computer and looked at the approximate date of purchase and it was found in a list of all other handguns purchased in the state. There have been lists for a very long time as the gun was purchased in 1998. Say what you want or your own personal knowledge and experiences. I know what I watched and Call me whatever you like.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> I here what is supposed to be and what is. I will relate a personal experience. I could not find a Glock 21 after moving, so I reported it to the PA state police. When the officer arrived he needed the serial number which I had neglected to record. He said do not say anything about this. In his squad car he got on a computer and looked at the approximate date of purchase and it was found in a list of all other handguns purchased in the state. There have been lists for a very long time as the gun was purchased in 1998. Say what you want or your own personal knowledge and experiences. I know what I watched and Call me whatever you like.


To be clear, the only law I know of that forbids a searchable database registry is a federal one.
States likely have all kinds of lists.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

But it's not like we can expect state gubbamints to follow federal laws...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The law forbids the federal government...


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Which law are you referring to? I'm running with FOPA.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Same law.
It states that no "records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof"
That part explicitly applies to all levels.
But then it goes on to include:
"nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established."
That's the part I think states are looking at and saying "we're not included in that clause, so it's ok".

Do I wish it was more restrictive and was written to explicitly include the states in that portion?
Yes I do.
But it's likely that states are using this lack of explicit mention to justify their own lists.

We need a court challenge to set precedent, or a competent congress to make it explicit.
Wonder which we'll get first. 🤔


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

I sold a pistol at a LGS in WA state that I bought in Kommiefornia, at a LGS. I didn't tell the LGS anything about the firearm. He looked up the serial number in his computer and found where, when, and what I bought in CA! He even commented on how did I buy a gun not on the Kommiefornia registry...so, 2 different states with registry information...sounds federal to me...


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Same law.
> It states that no "records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States *or any State or any political subdivision thereof"*
> That part explicitly applies to all levels.
> But then it goes on to include:
> ...


Yes, it applies to all levels. "Political subdivisions" includes counties/parishes, cities, towns, villages, burroughs, ... even things like school, airport, water and park districts.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Yes, it applies to all levels. "Political subdivisions" includes counties/parishes, cities, towns, villages, burroughs, ... even things like school, airport, water and park districts.


The first part clearly does.
But why are there two parts?
This is a perfect example of a loophole where explicit language was possible, but not used.
It should be amended and clarified to explicitly include states and all other government entities in the prohibition noted by the second part.

The fact remains, we all know there are lists at the state and local levels, and to my knowledge no court has ruled on their legality yet.
That's due to one of two reasons.
1. The second part of the clause only pertains to the federal government.
or...
2. No court case has been brought forth to challenge the lists.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> ........2. No court case has been brought forth to challenge the lists.


This.

Court cases aren't cheap.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> This.
> 
> Court cases aren't cheap.


Perhaps, and it can't happen fast enough.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Perhaps, and it can't happen fast enough.


Where is the GoFundMe page for it?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Where is the GoFundMe page for it?


Somebody must first be able to claim standing, showing they were unjustly "injured" by the action, and bringing the lawsuit.
That's why FPC constantly puts out calls to groups who may have been adversely affected by bad laws. They can't just bring a case forth without a victim.
I don't know of anyone yet who's stood up as a victim of one of these lists, but if there is one, I'd like to support them.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Let's see if this gets any traction:


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)




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## Usernameforyou (8 mo ago)

Do I think there's a registry? Yes. Do I think the govt watch me pee my pants last week? Yes. And I'm 50/50 on the moon landing.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)




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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)




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## NorthernPost (Jan 9, 2021)

So to shed some light and FACTs on this I'll start with a quick story, A very close friend of mine who works for a local police dept in CT once told me that every time they arrive at a domestic dispute at a private home they call up a database query on what guns the people in that dwelling own........ I said how is this possible after all I thought firearms registries were illegal, with a bit of investigation I talked with a close friend who has a CT FFL, He stated that each time a firearm is sold he needs to fill out a form and send it to the Police chief in the town or city that the purchaser resides in. it is then entered into a state datebase............ all the feds need to do is call the State police and walla they can find every fire arms purchase you ever made. Now I can't say it works this way in every state but I'd bet my last cent it works in every dem state and a good portion of rep states. NO ONE knows about it! And do you think the FFL dealers are going to tell everyone, heck no or all your future purchases will be private ones. Oh and BTW if they want the cops can confiscate all the firearms during the domestic dispute call! Cha Ching, Can you Say I NEED A LAWYER to get all my legal firearms back


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## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

Depends on which state you reside / purchase your weapon in. Example: If you live in let's say Texas and you purchased an AR15 from a dealer 15 years ago and that dealer is still in business, BATFE does not have a record of that transaction. That form (4473) stays in the FFL dealers files until he goes out of business. At that time, the dealer is required by law to submit those forms to the ATF going out of business depot. That is, unless those records (4473's) are 20 years are older. Those forms can be destroyed by the FFL holder if they are older than 20 years. However, that FFL holder is still required to submit the disposition books to that same department. It is illegal for a compliance inspector to copy any transaction from your Acquisition and Disposition books per the gun control act of 1968. Law Enforcement Division is not restrained if they are conducting an investigation on a specific firearm.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

MGNick said:


> Those forms can be destroyed by the FFL holder if they are older than 20 years.


I heard this was part of the recent gun bill that was passed, dictating that no forms could be destroyed once the law went into affect, regardless of age. That's why a few "gun tubers" were recommending that FFLs destroy any records that had passed the 20 year threshold before the law took effect.


MGNick said:


> It is illegal for a compliance inspector to copy any transaction from your Acquisition and Disposition books per the gun control act of 1968. Law Enforcement Division is not restrained if they are conducting an investigation on a specific firearm.


We all know this is happening. Just see BPH's post #42 above.


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## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

You can (could) destroy the 4473's after 20 years but not the physical books that showed the acquisition and disposition so that information still exist no matter what. Not sure where that new law stands at the moment. One thing is for sure. Having your illegal actions video taped is not very smart. That said, is this person Compliance or Law Enforcement? My guess is Compliance.


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## MGNick (Dec 28, 2021)

One thing that is for sure. They are not gathering this information for your future welfare. These people (Communist) have an agenda. That is to disarm you one way or another. It will go something like, registration, taxation, and then confiscation. They cannot take their game down the road much further unless you are defenseless.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> To be clear, the only law I know of that forbids a searchable database registry is a federal one.
> States likely have all kinds of lists.


The law here states a registry is forbidden. The information is supposed to be destroyed after 3 days. I may be off a little on the time frame but there is not supposed to be a perminate record let alone a searchable data base. Those in charge pretend it does not exist. If Pa does it it would be silly to think the feds do not do it too with any information the obtain legally or otherwise. JMHO. After all when was the last time any one in government house was held responsible legally and did real prison time for such activities?


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