# thinking about Starting a Off Grid Community



## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

I Live in Maine and bought 25 Acres In Northern Maine and Thinking about a starting a Off-Grid Community. It has Lots of Wild life and fishing and great farming soil. Im going up in the spring to start working on the land My son and GF will join me when school is out. If i go at it alone Im ok with that but I know their is alot of people looking for a off grid community from reading online so i thought I'd put it out there and stuff. If people just want to give tips and suggestions Im ok with that could use as much help and advice as possible. I currently live in central Maine lived here all my life and know what its like year round.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

How many people do you think 25 acres is going to support? Is it joined by any public land ? Does it have its own water supply?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

You might want to get a hold of my cousin who lives up there. He is an old hippy at heart.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

The first time you add someone to your community I suspect the local authorities will demand a permit - thus putting you on the grid.


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

There is a stream running through the land and 25 acres is decent even if people want to camp and help in spring or summer.


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

Local authorities is the state Police and county sheriffs. Sheriffs are 45 mins away. More likely to see a game warden then a cop. Its Maine Northern Woods


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

New Hampshire is better. Lot of Texas people living up there. Maine is mostly commie liberals democrats. 
https://freestateproject.org/


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

I think it's a nice idea - sounds like a great camp site. I'd hesitate to make it anything more than that until you need to. Great way to team build though. That is until one of the team members washes out but already knows where to go if/when the ballon goes up. Much to consider.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

Id work on provisioning and fortifying the area and then brining in true believers first.

Lots goes into a true off-grid homestead - a huge fiscal investment too, I can see sinking half a mil into it for water purification, sewage and alt energy plus structures as it is.

Forget the actual number but to setup a small COP for an ODA plus a few of us support guys and local forces was somewhere well north of that

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I can head on up Friday morning ... can ya send bus fare? PM me for particulars. Oh yea, welcome to Prepper Forums.


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

I bought the land to live off grid and have some livestock and some crops. I was going to do it alone. Me a Camper and a generator and my son until i build a log cabin. someone told me about looking into a small community or even getting summer help from people who like off grid style


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## quinnbrian (Mar 6, 2014)

CountryOutlaw said:


> I bought the land to live off grid and have some livestock and some crops. I was going to do it alone. Me a Camper and a generator and my son until i build a log cabin. someone told me about looking into a small community or even getting summer help from people who like off grid style


Great idea !! I've also thought of doing something like this. My biggest worry is getting someone or a group of people I'd dislike ...( good word...dislike)..alot ,better then what I'm really thinking. LOL
I like it when people come together and help each other out , it help build strength in a community ....everyone help out and looks after there bigger... "family". It's a great way to live, until as someone has already pointed out , the community draws too much attention....Quietly doing something like this ...is sometimes the best way to do it. 
I wish you the best of luck!! And hope all your dreams come true, but be careful what you wish for...everything in life is abtainable if you really want it.
Cheers
B


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

I mean maine that sounds doable maine is gorgeous, lots of hunting tell us more about the property


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Make sure to put the latrine on the down hill end of the estate. House, camp ground, parking, garden and laundry sure uses up 25 acres really quick. For a small family, let alone a community of how many??


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

I drove past one in north GA somewhere on a mountainside they had a solar powerplant set up with banners and it was all set up with doublewides it was pretty cool.


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

Leon said:


> I mean maine that sounds doable maine is gorgeous, lots of hunting tell us more about the property


Its 25 acres of mixed woods and a brook running through it. I know 25 acres people are saying isnt alot but thinking that the average american lives on .25 acres. I bought the land with the intent to live off grid/ Homestead. build a cabin from the wood on the land. Have a camper with a couple RV solar panels to start. I aint rich but I want my kid to grow up learning good stuff. He is 8 and I live in lewiston right now till i go up with a camper in the spring and drugs and OD's are way to high. I grew up herding cattle and moved to the city when i was 16 with my family and thought this was the best way to get out. Maybe its a dream but I got the hard part done which is getting the land now I have to just get in and start working on it


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

I live on 20 acres in a rural setting and do plan on a community coming together if there is a crisis. Difference for me is they will be my neighbors and not a bunch of strangers that you will never really know. I suggest going it alone with your family and taking it slow. Once you invite someone & they know you & your location, what do you do when you find out they have a screw loose? Sure you can kick them out of the group but now you have an enemy who knows all about you.

As far as homesteading & being self reliant, it could take much more land than you have to feed a community. During a crisis, when you don't have access to fertilizers & sprays, the amount of food one grows per acre will go way down. Even down here in Mississippi, with our much longer growing seasons, you need to plan on around 1-2 acres per person... and that is good crop land, not woods.


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

wood is great for building and heat. But the land has great soil and is mixed woods. id say 7-9 acres is a clear field and after cutting trees and clearing could have more farmig land. My goal is to have some live stock and I dont know if i want a community really just want a couple decent people that can help. Lot of work for 1 guy and an 8 year old


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Okay Outlaw, after reading your first post, I was going to harass you with something like this:



> I think that is a GREAT idea! You should buy a bunch of shipping containers and stack them in a perimeter around your land and sell/rent them to folks. Then you could subjugate the people outside your perimeter as laborers. You could set up toilet seats on 5 gallon buckets and make the peasants outside your shipping container fortress carry away and dispose of the buckets full of shit for a few grains of corn!


But I won't go down that path because it sounds like you are genuine after reading this whole thread.

Every rural community that I have been in within these formerly great United States (and that is quite a few of them) already have a network of folks set up for dealing with crisis. It is usually not formal. But neighbors know each other and are currently trading skills and resources, even without a crisis. Your job, buying land in a rural community, is to figure out who that network is and what you can offer them in return for what they can offer you.


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## pakrat (Nov 18, 2012)

My wife and I were part of a community of very serious minded and capable people for a few years in the 70’s and 80’s. There were other communities in our general area with a good collection of intelligent skilled people. Our community was on 160 acres… good forest and good water. Others had less, some had more. Every community failed. There was never a question of adequate resources or the ability to exist off the grid. In each case it was the people. 

To boil it down, after a while the people that did not own the land got tired of working to support the community and to improve the productivity of the land. They forgot that they lived without any rent or food and living expenses. They wanted partial control and partial ownership. When that was refused, they slowly left to go back to working jobs and paying taxes. Egos, betrayals, infidelities, jalousies, rivalries… all the human frailties eroded the communities.

We owned our 160 acres and stayed, as other owners did for a period of years, but eventually it became too much for two people with two kids to keep up with… livestock, gardens, tree cutting, hunting, unavoidable expenses and so much more than you can imagine. Twenty-five acres might be enough, but a thousand areas won’t fix broken people. 

In total we worked it for about 12 years. My take away is that unless you’re truly in a survival scenario where it’s ‘be part of the community or parish’, where there are very few other options, people who have existed in this modern era (mentally soft) will become dissatisfied with the level of effort that subsistence requires and they will abandon the community… after causing a great deal of difficulty and heartbreak. MEO (My Experienced Opinion).


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Frankly, if I had 25 acres in the Maine Northwoods the last thing I would want is other people around.
But I don't like people to begin with.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

25 acres eh? Your a single dad? I lived in a camper in the woods for a few years, 200 foot extension cord, one outlet, no indoor plumbing, or kitchen. We cooked outside under a tarp set up against the camper, and walked a hundred yards to a house with a basement bathroom we could use. It was awesome, I never got tired of it, but we moved on before it went bad.
If I had 25 acres with water, I would look for a good condition airstream or avion camper, they have thicker aluminum skin then square campers, and hold up better to full time living. I would invest in a diesel truck with a generator in the bed, and move around your property, a few weeks at a time and find the best spot. Also look into whether you can dam the creek for a small hydro plant, and whether it's strong enough for a hydraulic ram to move/stage water around your property. 
Selecting a primary, secondary and turtiary spot for your cabin/out building.
Live in the camper for a couple years and really get to know it, and really asses all YOUR needs, and those of your kid before you invite a bunch of people.
Groups work, but I have seen more intentional communities/communes/mags go to hell than go right, because people, usually the LAND OWNER rushed it. 
JM2O. Welcome to the forum.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

CountryOutlaw said:


> Its 25 acres of mixed woods and a brook running through it. I know 25 acres people are saying isnt alot but thinking that the average american lives on .25 acres. I bought the land with the intent to live off grid/ Homestead. build a cabin from the wood on the land. Have a camper with a couple RV solar panels to start. I aint rich but I want my kid to grow up learning good stuff. He is 8 and I live in lewiston right now till i go up with a camper in the spring and drugs and OD's are way to high. I grew up herding cattle and moved to the city when i was 16 with my family and thought this was the best way to get out. Maybe its a dream but I got the hard part done which is getting the land now I have to just get in and start working on it


First off, welcome to the forum!
Secondly, let's try to stick to comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
The modern American family does indeed subside on .25 acres, but let's fully understand how that's possible. Where does their *CLEAN* water come from? The tap. Where does their *DIRTY* water go? The drain. Where does their food come from? Down the block at the corner market. Where does there electricity come from? Magical copper strings that somebody else installed long long ago.
The fact is, the reason we can sustain a family of 4 on .25 acres is because we don't have to do much of the sustaining. The rest of society does it, and we partake in trade via currency.
Now, take all those wonderful systems of society away, and replicate even the bare minimum for your own survival, and things change DRASTICALLY.
Where does your *CLEAN* water come from? You won't be drinking straight from that brook, and your required gallons per day will only increase as you add humans, crops, and livestock to the mix.
Where does your *DIRTY water go? It would be most immoral to dump it into the same brook, not to mention unsanitary for your uses. Dig a hole? How big? How much waste water will you be producing?
Where will your food come from? Have you planned out the size of a field to grow just one vegetable variety that will sustain you and your family, let alone additional folks? What about the ever important meat group? They need greens too, and that means more space for growing/grazing.
Where will your electricity come from? Ok, you got me. You can survive without electricity, but you'll sure have one hell of a time handling the things above without it. So, does one generator suffice? Maybe an array of solar panels? Where does the fuel for the genny come from? How much power will you need to produce from the panels, and how much space will that size of an array take up?
We haven't even covered the necessary storage requirements to ensure you don't run out of things during the hard months, or during a drought, or where you'll keep your livestock during those freezing nights in Maine.

And if I read correctly, a good deal of the land is wooded? Say goodbye to that. It will become mandatory to clear away just about all of that to make room for the things above. Cut it, and keep it dry and stored, and you might get a long life out of it. But you won't live long enough to find out if you keep it and try to make due with ~12 acres of land for all the necessities.

Friend, we have seen MANY folks hop on here with big plans for all kinds of communities, and we've not met a one that has developed solid plans for keeping that community alive long term.
Inor may sound like he's kidding, but there in fact was a dude who's plan was to basically become his own little king of a shipping container kingdom. He had the hardest time answering basic civil engineering questions and coming up with a viable method of managing people and goods. And yes, he said folks in his kingdom would be dumping in buckets, and then dumping their buckets somewhere nearby. From an objective POV, his plans were horrifying in their ignorance and arrogance.

For you, and your 25 acres, you should be able to scrape up a sustainable living for your family. Many have done so before you.
But expanding beyond that is a fool's errand if you don't have real, solid, and capable plans.
Enjoy your new land. I'm sure it's gorgeous up there.

And again, welcome!


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^^ Now here is someone that has made an initial attempt, to even *start thinking the basics through*.


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## pakrat (Nov 18, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> For you, and your 25 acres, you should be able to scrape up a sustainable living for your family. Many have done so before you.
> But expanding beyond that is a fool's errand if you don't have real, solid, and capable plans.
> Enjoy your new land. I'm sure it's gorgeous up there.


Regrettably, I have to agree 100%.

We were fortunate to have purchased an old once working farm that had water for livestock provided by a spring-fed basin sheltered in one end of the cattle barn. Our house water came from a shallow well and cistern in the basement of the original dwelling. Even then, hand pumping complicated some basic chores. We used 15-17 chord of wood a year... heating the house, heating water and cooking.

The idea of living out of a mobile home of some definition while coming to an understanding of how the natural systems and cycles of your property play out is good advice. An area that looks good in one season may be intolerable in another... angles of the sun, direction of the winds, water tables, freezing a thaws, etc. Live in a trailer, heat everything with propane (wood stoves and trailers are a bad combo), work a job, save money, educate yourself in the trades, plan and build slowly, read books like "5 acres and Independence". Spend you money and funds on solutions to REAL needs. Solar is a popular goal, but is expensive and too often does not do as much to sustain off-grid subsistence as something like a fully hand operated water system. You can keep your electric pump, but being able to draw potable water without power in any season is a real solution and an invaluable asset.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> New Hampshire is better. Lot of Texas people living up there. Maine is mostly commie liberals democrats.
> https://freestateproject.org/


Maine is two states.. the southern half.. commonly called northern Massachusetts and the normal folk living above the crazy line


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

i agree with everyone. Maybe a community isn't the best way to start. here is a few things Ive worked out
I have a forrester looking over my land and about 30 yards from the stream is where I want my area for the house so we dont have as far to travel. 
I am hoping to have 2-3 acres for farming. carrots, tomatos, ect. I know i want some woods as I love hunting and its meat in the oven so to say. I have never lived off grid but my goal is to try with my land. I live on a fixed income and it will take time for 1 man to build everything. i guess its why i was thinking a community as i wouldnt have to do it alone. Someone else told me to look for a couple people that would want to help for a few days or week during the summer as their are people out there. To say im lost already and spring is in a month or so. I thank everyone for your words. advice helps most. things i should do, ect. Ill be going up after snow dethaws and ground aswell. my son will stay in the city with my GF and my mom ill go up alone for a month or so to start stuff. so any advice Helps. I know Im going in the deep end


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

This is a picture of the land. as you can see their is a few water sources. I tried putting the lines up. may be a little off but not much LO. again any advice helps


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## huntntrap (Feb 5, 2017)

Outlaw what are your plans for waste? I think that is the most pressing issue that you will have. If there is already areas clear of trees that just need to have the growth cut and stream for water. Which direction does the stream flow? Towards the farms or away?
Lets see your plan for the land first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NKAWTG (Feb 14, 2017)

He's just asking for trouble...


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

its flowing towards the land. and I was looking into one of them compost waste one you turn it into furtilizer.


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

sorry I may be asking for trouble but I want something better for my 8 year old then what this city is offering. And learning how to live off the land isnt a bad thing so maybe i am but its my goal


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

and not trying to be rude but its a lot different in NV. I own 50 acres in Golconda went out there for the past 2 years during the summer so my son can pan for gold and get out of the city and this is 5 hrs away from family I was going to move to golconda but I dont know how to grow anything in a desert how to find water That is asking for trouble


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## huntntrap (Feb 5, 2017)

You might want to consider developing a septic field if you plan on living year round. From my experience at the cottage the self composting toilets are only good for a few weeks use at a time.

I would start by knocking on the doors to the east an introducing yourself. You likely just bought a piece in their hunting grounds and it would a benefit to you to meet them. They will be the community that others have spoken about on this forum. Not to mention they have equipment and supplies that you may be able to barter the use of to develop your property.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

OK. Thank you. good advice. what do you think of the idea of water pump PVC pipe to run water and can make a outdoor bathroom like shower for the summer with a tent style shower they sell at walmart?


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Hi, I'm late to this thread because most "form a group" threads are nothing but dreaming but since you've actually bought the land and seem to be paying attention to the other members I thought I'd chime in.

First off I'm glad that you listened to the earlier posts and have given up on the idea of forming a commune. Since you don't have the knowledge, equipment, ect to instantly turn it into a self sustaining "farm" you will need to maintain your income, put in a house or trailer, water supply, septic, ect like the rest of us who live in a rural area.

You need to get to know the locals, farming communities are built around a strong family and church connections and you will need to join in. Go to the local church occasionally even if you're not much on church, Eat at the local café regularly, especially breakfast. Buy most things at the local stores so that you see people and are seen almost daily. Over time the locals may begin to accept you and that is when you can ask for advise about how to farm ect. The people in northern Maine can be unfriendly to outsiders and may take time before they become friendly.

Start with a small garden, a wood shed, and a outbuilding large enough to keep the tractor you some day will acquire as your homestead grows. Use your "mini-farm" to supplement your lifestyle, not as your primary income. 

And since you've got a family who are accustomed to modern conveniences I'd strongly advise that you give up the idea of living in a shack deep in the woods with an outhouse. Most people who live in rural areas have electric coffee makers, satellite tv, and go to work at a business. The one's who make a living off their land are usually farmers working land that's been in the family for generations.


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## huntntrap (Feb 5, 2017)

First thing is to have that water tested for cleanliness. If you cannot drink it, you shouldn't bathe in it either. You may have to consider getting a well drilled, or burying tanks to act as a cistern below the frost line. Then you can supply yourself with potable drinking water.

If the water is safe from the stream then you could consider dropping a pump in the stream and drawing directly. Remember that you will have sub zero temps for an extended period of time. You will have to bury your supply line and some how insulate your pump.

I wouldn't realistically expect to be farming this spring as you have a lot of tree cover to clear before your crops will really take off so you will have to plan on buying food for the first year, of course you can collect some wild edibles and likely get enough wild game to save on your protein purchases.



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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

i Understand what your saying John and thank you for the advice. I grew up on a cattle ranch until I was about 17 and the family lost the farm. I get SSI and from an injury so i get about 1200 a month. not much to live off in the city. and Im from the North woods of maine just not this part of it. I wont lie Im excited and Im going through with it. I know people say 23 acres isnt alot and I bought a water purifer for camping and stuff says it works upto 500 gallons. I bought 10 of them. im still googling and watching shows and videos on ideas and everything trying to find the best ways to do things and get more ideas


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

hunttrap. Thats what I was thinking about putting a pump in the water and having ingo into a Steel barrow I can Heat up to clean then put it in a storage tank. I do get state aid for food and We want to use it for mostly canned goods and such for a bit but meat Ill get as I hunt, My Gf does and so does my son. and I hunt with gun, crossbow, and Bow and she hunts Gun along with my son so we should have enough meat between deer, bear, turkey, and everything else and then the fish I so know the stream has trout and salmon. Every idea helps. I just dont want people telling me im out of my league I know maines weather and such and i dont want people trying to talk me out of it I need advice not critism and Y'all are helping me and giving me ideas and im writing them down and even trying to draw blue prints for things. I did buy a Alaskan MK III Portable Lumber Mill. so I can cut and make plank boards out of the trees. again Thanks


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

This is why @John Galt is a cool guy and one of Slippy's best buds!
Thanks!
Slip :vs_wave:



John Galt said:


> Hi, I'm late to this thread because most "form a group" threads are nothing but dreaming but since you've actually bought the land and seem to be paying attention to the other members I thought I'd chime in.
> 
> First off I'm glad that you listened to the earlier posts and have given up on the idea of forming a commune. Since you don't have the knowledge, equipment, ect to instantly turn it into a self sustaining "farm" you will need to maintain your income, put in a house or trailer, water supply, septic, ect like the rest of us who live in a rural area.
> 
> ...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Hey, only 5mi from Canada.

Seriously, you might want to take down the picture with the exact GPS coordinates of your future site. Nice looking place, but you shouldn't be too quick to give up that much unsecured information.


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

I just looked and couldn't figure out how to remove the picture. and yeah not far from Canada and only 10 miles from a store if i really need something


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Hey, only 5mi from Canada.
> 
> Seriously, you might want to take down the picture with the exact GPS coordinates of your future site. Nice looking place, but you shouldn't be too quick to give up that much unsecured information.





CountryOutlaw said:


> I just looked and couldn't figure out how to remove the picture. and yeah not far from Canada and only 10 miles from a store if i really need something


No worries now, you have just given thousands of folks a potential bug out location.


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## CountryOutlaw (Feb 21, 2017)

oh well I guess. its very secluded and will be rare to see anyone..


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

CountryOutlaw said:


> View attachment 40561
> 
> This is a picture of the land. as you can see their is a few water sources. I tried putting the lines up. may be a little off but not much LO. again any advice helps


Oh crap. Now Will, Will1, and Will2 knows where you are...


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Oh crap. Now Will, Will1, and Will2 knows where you are...


That's some spaced out crap right there! Thanks Slip, I needed a laugh this morning .... Oh yea .... Will sucks, tell all of your friends!


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

You guys are going to be asked for money for posting his picture again, talk about fried brain!


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## turbo6 (Jun 27, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> New Hampshire is better. Lot of Texas people living up there. Maine is mostly commie liberals democrats.
> https://freestateproject.org/


When I lived in NH, nicest guy I knew was from Texas. 

The northern New England states have all passed constitutional carry, I believe, with NH being the latest one. That certainly is a plus.


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