# How long to stay on back roads/trails right after SHTF?



## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

One of my North/South evacuation plans is to take a well know (in Kentucky) 260 mile trail called the Sheltowee Trace that ends at the top and bottom of Kentucky (Its 3 miles from my cabin). 

The trail is popular and I have traveled it dozens of times, but it got me thinking on how long initially to stay on a trial right after a SHTF event before you should sway off the path of the trail. I know some will say to stay off it completely, but the terrain of Kentucky is pretty heavy. 

The same applies with back roads. When do you get off the path?


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Trails? No idea.

Roads? If you have a running vehicle 260 miles is a 5 hour drive. If the S has HTF just get in and get there ASAP. It will take days for the normalcy bias to go away.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Depends on where you are headed, how far and what alternatives are reasonable. Getting to your retreat is likely a priority so speed counts too. Off the beaten trail is slower but if you are starting after SHTF, keeping anonymous and hidden may keep you from being a target. I would prefer being off the beaten path completely for as long as possible. If the distance is greater and/or stealth is just too slow/long I would consider risking more traveled routes for half a day or so until I see too many people or uncivil behavior.. Initially people are less likely to be desperate, just scared so I would anticipate more civil behavior. This could change quickly and unpredictably. Then again my wife tells me I'm always wrong.


----------



## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

They say all battle plans go out the window once the first shot is fired, I wonder if the same might not be true for SHTF? Plans are all well and good, but there is something to be said for playing it by ear, meaning it may be wiser as Salt&Pepper says and just go by standard roads and get there as soon as possible. If not, then plan "B".


----------



## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Trails? No idea.
> 
> Roads? If you have a running vehicle 260 miles is a 5 hour drive. If the S has HTF just get in and get there ASAP. It will take days for the normalcy bias to go away.


Numerous de facto scenarios I guess. I was thinking the main Interstate corridor and back roads would be a choke point for the first 24 hours, thus putting me in the open on the roads and further away from the trail.


----------



## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

One trip to Costco & back


----------



## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> One trip to Costco & back


But..... that means my own compound.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I guess the question you need to answer: "Why do you need to travel?"

I've always thought it, . . . well, . . . frankly, . . . dumb. 

Moving on a trail, road, canal, lake, puts you at the mercy of anyone wishing to ambush you. At least in a plane, . . . you are only vulnerable taking off and landing.

If I have to travel, . . . 10 miles a day will be BIG days, . . . more then likely 5 miles will be close to the norm. 

I have to see that my way is clear, . . . or I'm not moving, . . . unless by some chance of luck I'm with a pack that I trust, . . . almost an impossible task.

But if there is a HTF scenario forcing you to move, . . . learn to move in a "bounding overwatch" technique. The first person or team takes up a position where they can watch over the other person or team while they move a certain distance to a certain place. The second person/team takes up their position where they overwatch the movement of person/team one as they catch up and pass the second person/team. They then play leap frog as they travel, . . . one watching, . . . one moving.

It is slower than just heading out, . . . but without at least a scout up front, . . . you run the risk of ambush, . . . and vehicles on standard roads and highways are even more vulnerable.

Re-think the route you need to go, . . . and even the need TO GO.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Hawaii Volcano Squad (Sep 25, 2013)

You live at Costco?


----------



## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

dwight55 said:


> I guess the question you need to answer: "Why do you need to travel?"
> 
> learn to move in a "bounding overwatch" technique.


Dwight... first let me say, thanks for using HTF with dropping the S. Never thought about it, but I don't like using the original.

Second, it would be because of force. Main plan is to stay put, but force would drive me out.

I do like the bounding overwatch technique. When I hit the Sheltowee this weekend, I'm going to start implementing it.


----------



## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Yeah I think that keeping moving is more important, at least early on. If I was getting out early, I wouldn't hesitate to use the trail, but would be on high alert. Mobility is survival. However, two specific situations come to mind....

1... If there is more traffic headed the other way than one would expect, I would have to wonder why. I would especially look for people flashing their lights, making hand gestures, or otherwise obviously trying to warn people of, well, something. If I saw these signs, I wouldn't hesitate to just turn around and seek an alternate route. In this case, I wouldn't try to determine the problem, I would just turn around.

2... If traffic was fairly sparse and moving smoothly, but suddenly started jamming up, I would again wonder why and take immediate action. Depending on the specific circumstances, this might mean pulling over and getting out, taking to the woods to scout ahead undetected, or it might mean just turning around. In this situation (and others), a common CB radio might help you gain information about what's up.

I would be extra vigilant when approaching choke points, especially bridges. Yeah, it would slow you down to stop and scout ahead on foot, but you might only get one chance to get it right. If you get too close to a blocked bridge, you might find it difficult or impossible to turn around, even in moderate traffic. This is why it's important to know your intended escape route in detail.

edited to add: LOL Dwight, seems you and I are on the same page here.


----------



## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Hawaii Volcano Squad said:


> You live at Costco?


lol. No, I'm not "Where the Heart is"....

Why would I go to Costco when I have pretty much everything at my own compound.


----------



## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

What caused the SHTF is a factor. The vehicle you have is a factor. Cabin stocked or not is a factor.

Need to keep enough fuel in a shed or where ever to top off your vehicle fuel tank. I'm of the opinion it will be a day or two before stuff gets bad unless you live in New Orleans or Ferguson. So I am of the opinion the route to take is the one that will get you there in the shortest amount of time.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

There are also several sets of generally recognized hand signals. Print out the set you want to use (google military hand signals) and give everyone a copy.

Use them in your implementation, . . . knowing what the other person wants 150 feet away without shouting can be a life saver if not only a lung saver. AND it doesn't need batteries,..........lol.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

In my cav days, we lived, ate, and breathed recon... it was our primary mission. Bounding overwatch was bread and butter to us, but there are other kinds of overwatch movement that might be a better choice here.

My platoon had 3 tanks, so we always split into a "heavy" team and a "light" team. Rather than leapfrogging, the light team would move out while being overwatched by the heavy team. They would then halt and signal the heavy team to move up. Once we rejoined, the light team would move out again.

Applying this to a civilian scenario; the scouting team would be your fastest people and more lightly armed, while your overwatch element would be armed with longer range precision rifles and better able to cover their advances. This would make each element better suited for their particular role than if you were to bound.

Just something else to think about.


----------



## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

You might think about backup transportation. Even if its a small car you can add an external bicycle. Larger vehicle, small trailer with a motorcycle in it. Truck you can have a motorcycle in the bed. On/off road bicycle or motorcycle would be best I think. Whole idea is to keep moving till you get to your destination. And either would be a good choice as a scout vehicle if you got stuck in a traffic jam.


----------



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

If I think my paths are likely to be compromised or there are just,too many risks and no alternatives around I plan to try and travel from about 3:30 am to 5:30 am give or take a little. Most loser humans are asleep at these hours. I'd like be able to hear any,problems and see issues a lot easier. Then camp securely 22 hrs and go for the same the next day.


----------



## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Someone coming the opposite direction you can get info from if you have a CB radio.


----------



## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

HuntingHawk said:


> Someone coming the opposite direction you can get info from if you have a CB radio.


I'm taking the chances with getting off the trail with reliance upon my ham radio reports.


----------



## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

survival said:


> I'm taking the chances with getting off the trail with reliance upon my ham radio reports.


CB I believe is better for localized info as more CB radios in vehicles then ham radios. JMO


----------



## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

Bounding overwatch made me think of the Ride and Tie races, used to be sponsored by Levi's. Two people, one horse. The rider rides ahead a set distance and ties up the horse and takes off running. The runner catches up to the horse, which has had a chance to rest, mounts up and overtakes the new runner, again tying up a distance ahead and taking off himself, leapfrogging. Everyone gets a chance to rest, and its about the fastest way to get two people and a horse a given distance, lacking a truck and trailer. Used to be a lot of fun in those halcyon days of unlimited lung and leg power. Had a couple endurance horses, a Morgan/Appaloosa, Poco, and Charlie, an Arab/Tennessee Walker. Ol' Charlie was pretty cool, long easy strides and friendly, eager to please. He was good at lining up and kicking obnoxious dogs that came out to bark at him. Poco would get into that Morgan sulky racing stride and goodbye, Charlie. I just did these races for fun, but some of these marathon runner /rider guys...


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

survival said:


> Dwight... first let me say, thanks for using HTF with dropping the S. Never thought about it, but I don't like using the original.
> 
> Second, it would be because of force. Main plan is to stay put, but force would drive me out.
> 
> I do like the bounding overwatch technique. When I hit the Sheltowee this weekend, I'm going to start implementing it.


Are you on foot?


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Plan on being forced to take alternate rounds. Practice taking them. IMO the longer you wait, the more likely it is that you will find the roads impassible, the key will be to leave as early as possible to beat the rush, but also take your time once you start on your way so that you don't find yourself blocked in at some type of road blockage and of course for safety. There will be allot of people driving like morons and it would suck to get into a fatal accident on your way to your safe location.

Try to stay on main roads as long as possible but be prepared and familiar with secondary routes. Take to the secondary routes as soon as you suspect some kind of blockage ahead to by-pass the problem. Just don't get into a mindset that you are going to take a particular road to your destination and by the time you decide it might be a good idea to take another route it is too late. Don't wait too long before you decide to bug out. The longer you wait the more crowded the roads will be. Be prepared to being forced to going part of the way on foot.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

depends on the event... nuclear bomb close to you and people are trying to get away or announced dollar collapse...

Pandemic or alien invasion...

no answer will fit all the events


----------

