# 80% AR lowers. Thoughts?



## DELTA 3 (Jul 8, 2014)

I was thinking about getting a few 80% lowers and milling them out. I have a friend who owns a machine shop and has all the mills and gadgets needed to punch them out pretty quick, and with super accuracy.

I'm just looking for anyone who as built an AR from an 80% lower, and what the thoughts on it are.
Pro's? Con's?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

If you want the experience. If you really like doing things like that go for it. It often goes bad for some. The feds have been missing with it again. They have gone after suppliers and demanding names and where they were ship in a couple cases. 
Yes have done it but I had the free use of some nice tools. Other than my first statement it is not worth it.
ATF Raids Ares Armor for 80% lower sales. Changes to legal classification of 80% lowers coming? - The Firearm Blog


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## knfmn1 (Dec 2, 2014)

DELTA 3 said:


> I was thinking about getting a few 80% lowers and milling them out. I have a friend who owns a machine shop and has all the mills and gadgets needed to punch them out pretty quick, and with super accuracy.
> 
> I'm just looking for anyone who as built an AR from an 80% lower, and what the thoughts on it are.
> Pro's? Con's?


You can build your own AR15 to better than mil-spec tolerances with nobody knowing anything about it. I count that as a pretty huge win. If you've got a buddy with the tooling that you need to do it, even better.

The feds were unhappy with Ares armor because they didn't believe that their polymer 80% lowers weren't actual complete lowers at one point. I wouldn't sweat it too much. If you're worried about it, find a local gun shop that sells 80% lowers and cash and carry.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I've seen 80% lowers that come with the jigs. As Smitty said, all of a sudden some folks think they're gunsmiths. Homebuilt, for lack of a better word, sell all over the place for what you could come close to buying new and have a warranty.jmo.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Good luck with the project. You can prolly find a gunsmith who'll guide you for the cost of having the work done at his shop. I think Paladin press has a few books n videos on the topic.


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## knfmn1 (Dec 2, 2014)

1skrewsloose said:


> I've seen 80% lowers that come with the jigs. As Smitty said, all of a sudden some folks think they're gunsmiths. Homebuilt, for lack of a better word, sell all over the place for what you could come close to buying new and have a warranty.jmo.


Meaning absolutely no offense, but if you don't see the advantage of being able to build your own AR without a paper trail, you should take a look at the politicians in office in this country and their beliefs. Being able to build one without anyone knowing about it seems like one of those things that's worth a small premium.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

knfmn1 said:


> Meaning absolutely no offense, but if you don't see the advantage of being able to build your own AR without a paper trail, you should take a look at the politicians in office in this country and their beliefs. Being able to build one without anyone knowing about it seems like one of those things that's worth a small premium.


 Isn't that why they call them a ghost gun? They don't exist on paper


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Not sure where some of you live but right now, in FL, I can legally buy any damn gun I want without any paperwork from any private seller. I'll gladly buy a factory built AR from a guy named "Bill" in the Publix parking lot rather than try to build my own. Same 'paper trail' ... none.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

The adv to some is a non serial numbered firearm. It can't be sold / traded in most if any state but you can keep it forever.


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## knfmn1 (Dec 2, 2014)

Hemi45 said:


> Not sure where some of you live but right now, in FL, I can legally buy any damn gun I want without any paperwork from any private seller. I'll gladly buy a factory built AR from a guy named "Bill" in the Publix parking lot rather than try to build my own. Same 'paper trail' ... none.


Eh, until the ATF pulls 4473's and lands on Billy Bob's neck with both jack boots. We don't have the luxury of private sales up here, anyhow....sigh.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Do we know for certain that 80% lowers aren't tracked? At least who they are sold to? Just sayin! Debatable.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

knfmn1 said:


> Meaning absolutely no offense, but if you don't see the advantage of being able to build your own AR without a paper trail, you should take a look at the politicians in office in this country and their beliefs. Being able to build one without anyone knowing about it seems like one of those things that's worth a small premium.


Sure, I see the advantage, but there are lots of places to buy factory built ar's without paper, depending on where you live, if that's the case, move. Or make friends with someone in a gun friendly state.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Even CA they are nothing more then paper weights.



knfmn1 said:


> Eh, until the ATF pulls 4473's and lands on Billy Bob's neck with both jack boots. We don't have the luxury of private sales up here, anyhow....sigh.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

My weapons are not where anyone thinks they are. Sure a few at hand but the rest is secure . Any time a back round check is done the do keep the records and do know the serial number of the weapon. I know the law does not allow this but they have proven over and over they do it anyway.
That said once purchased I can sell it or get rid of it with no paper work if I felt the need.
No weapons should ever be listed on wills, or insurance papers of any kind. 
80% lowers can be machined out by many. I watch a skilled person do it with a dremel . While not simple it is also not that hard if you have some skills and take your time to do it right.
As for building some thing better than milspec . That has nothing to do with it at all. A lower is just a box to hold the mag and trigger group. The mating surfaces that fit to the upper are already done. I bet a few people no one I know of course have stocked a few 80% lowers for a rainy day spare barrels, springs and lower kits..


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## DELTA 3 (Jul 8, 2014)

Thanks for the comments. Yes, the friend of mine has actually has actually done machining on many firearms, including making customer parts for hard to find/rare firearms. Milling the 80% lower with the jig will be a walk in the park. 
Also, if the 2A were ever to go Tango Uniform (praying this never happens), and the Goon squads come knocking, then I would much rather them not know and have on record at least one firearm.
Now that I think about it, what makes me more sick than the dissolving of the 2A, is the police/military that took that out, would turn on their fellow american and actually enforce that garbage.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> No weapons should ever be listed on wills, or insurance papers of any kind.


Are you suggesting the separate insurance policy I have for my firearms is a bad idea?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Hemi45 said:


> Are you suggesting the separate insurance policy I have for my firearms is a bad idea?


 Yes it list serial number 100% proof you have it and control it. Lesson NRA insurance might be worth looking into. I how ever choose not to in any form.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

If you want to use an 80% lower check your state laws first.


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## DELTA 3 (Jul 8, 2014)

Technically I wouldn't be "using" it. That's what my registered AR would be fore. Building an AR from an 80% lower would be strictly to stash. And the reason for stashing would be based on the possibility that the 2A gets so re-written that it leaves us all with muskets, or its dissolved all together, In which case I would have my 80% as a back up. So state laws carry no weight on my decision, if that makes sense.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

DELTA 3 said:


> Technically I wouldn't be "using" it. That's what my registered AR would be fore. Building an AR from an 80% lower would be strictly to stash. And the reason for stashing would be based on the possibility that the 2A gets so re-written that it leaves us all with muskets, or its dissolved all together, In which case I would have my 80% as a back up. So state laws carry no weight on my decision, if that makes sense.


My point is that you may find that in certain anti-gun states, purchase of a 80% lower may not be legal. Remember the "ghost gun" speech in CA?

IDK what the rules on these is in NJ, but even if legal I am confident that any LEO that found one would lock you up for having a gun without a serial number and it would be your problem to defend yourself. You'd come out of the court process much poorer.


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## knfmn1 (Dec 2, 2014)

Diver said:


> My point is that you may find that in certain anti-gun states, purchase of a 80% lower may not be legal. Remember the "ghost gun" speech in CA?
> 
> IDK what the rules on these is in NJ, but even if legal I am confident that any LEO that found one would lock you up for having a gun without a serial number and it would be your problem to defend yourself. You'd come out of the court process much poorer.


They are legal everywere in the US. An 80% lower is just a hunk of metal (and a made up word....it's either a receiver or it isn't) legally anywhere in the US. Turning it into a functioning firearm might be a slightly different story. It's legal to do so in California and Massachusetts definitely. NJ might be a little iffy since they apparently require a manufacturers license to complete a firearm in state?? My solution to that would be to find a buddy with a machine shop over the border in PA and buy him a case of beer.

Long and short of it is this: do what you want and keep your mouth shut. Don't invite the cops into your home or do anything that will allow them to invite themselves into your home.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

DELTA 3 said:


> Technically I wouldn't be "using" it. That's what my registered AR would be fore. Building an AR from an 80% lower would be strictly to stash. And the reason for stashing would be based on the possibility that the 2A gets so re-written that it leaves us all with muskets, or its dissolved all together, In which case I would have my 80% as a back up. So state laws carry no weight on my decision, if that makes sense.


 I think if we ever get to that point it aint going to madder much.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

knfmn1 said:


> They are legal everywere in the US. An 80% lower is just a hunk of metal (and a made up word....it's either a receiver or it isn't) legally anywhere in the US. Turning it into a functioning firearm might be a slightly different story. It's legal to do so in California and Massachusetts definitely. NJ might be a little iffy since they apparently require a manufacturers license to complete a firearm in state?? My solution to that would be to find a buddy with a machine shop over the border in PA and buy him a case of beer.
> 
> Long and short of it is this: do what you want and keep your mouth shut. Don't invite the cops into your home or do anything that will allow them to invite themselves into your home.


Legal has nothing to do with it in NJ. Check your state.


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