# Consider the settlers headed west



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

It took about 5 months to get OUT WEST

what did they take

According to the National Oregon/California Trail Center, a typical family of four needed:
600 pounds of flour
400 pounds of bacon (Bacon lasted longer when packed inside barrels of bran.)
100 pounds of sugar
60 pounds of coffee
200 pounds of lard as basic staples.

Sacks of beans, rice and dried fruit augmented the diet.

Eggs were packed in cornmeal, which then was used to make corn bread. 
Milk from a cow brought along for that purpose was churned into butter in buckets suspended from the bottom of the wagon. 
Salt, pepper, vinegar and molasses added seasoning to meals. 
Water was found along the way, and coffee and tea masked the water's sometimes alkaline flavor.

Supply List for Traveling the Oregon Trail | USA Today
------------------
------------------

After reading the above - I realize I only have about 300 pounds of wheat. Sugar I am good on, Coffee I need more, I have powdered milk but might need more... there are others things I need to look at like molasses- I have some but not enough


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Of course they augmented this with wild game along the trail. Most wagoneers carried shotguns.

That much for 5 months? I'm under-prepped, I think.


----------



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

This may have been for about 50 people "about 50 men, women and children first started the journey on this trail to Oregon."

If not then I am really unprepared.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> Of course they augmented this with wild game along the trail. Most wagoneers carried shotguns.
> 
> That much for 5 months? I'm under-prepped, I think.


They needed it there when they arrived also...

in the article they made the point...

Most settlers carried a rifle and hunting knife for killing and dressing animals. Buffalo and antelope were plentiful at the beginning of westward expansion, but when the population of wild animals along the trail diminished over time, settlers began bringing a herd of cows along for meat and milk.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> This may have been for about 50 people "about 50 men, women and children first started the journey on this trail to Oregon."
> 
> If not then I am really unprepared.


that was for a family of four


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

No, MatG, that was for a family of four.

Those Prairie Schooner wagons were build right where I live. Pittsburgh was the 'Gateway to the West' long before St. Louis. (Pic from Heinz History Center):


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Wagons were 6 feet wide and 12 feet long and built to carry no more than 2,500 pounds of supplies for the trip west. Because the wagons were so heavily loaded, settlers walked the route. The wagons provided sleeping shelter in inclement weather and a corral for the animals at night, when they were drawn into a circle. Coils of rope, spare axles and tar buckets hung from the sides of the wagon.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

The hulls were fashioned like boats for fording the rivers.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> It took about 5 months to get OUT WEST
> 
> what did they take
> 
> ...


That list of food is enough for the trip but not a lot to spare. It takes two cups of flour to make biscuits for two x 150 days is 300 cups of flour for two for the trip - just for breakfast! Figure you will eat some kind of bread with most meals and it adds up fast!
I think a lot of people who don't make their own breads from scratch have no idea how much wheat to store (or flour if you don't grind your own).

If some of the wheat sprouts, eat the sprouts - it's a great source of vitamins and minerals that are not found in the wheat itself.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Another thing to consider is that those folks were burning a tremendous amount of calories walking hundreds of miles, clearing brush, roping wagons over obstacles, etc. In a SHTF situation, I don't think I'd need that much grub pulling guard duty.

You're right about the quantities, PaulS. I baked a loaf of Irish Soda yesterday, it took 4 cups flour and it didn't turn out all that large.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> Another thing to consider is that those folks were burning a tremendous amount of calories walking hundreds of miles, clearing brush, roping wagons over obstacles, etc. In a SHTF situation, I don't think I'd need that much grub pulling guard duty.
> 
> You're right about the quantities, PaulS. I baked a loaf of Irish Soda yesterday, it took 4 cups flour and it didn't turn out all that large.


You should use sourdough - no soda required - no added yeast - just flour, water and a table spoon of salt for two standard size loaves. (it takes between 3 and 4 cups of flour plus what is in the starter - another 3 cups - to make two loaves). Yep, it takes a bunch of flour but it is still better bread and cheaper than you can buy it.


----------



## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Scurvy was a problem ... that food list shows why. Dried fruit and tomatoes are good and easy.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

PaulS said:


> You should use sourdough - no soda required - no added yeast - just flour, water and a table spoon of salt for two standard size loaves. (it takes between 3 and 4 cups of flour plus what is in the starter - another 3 cups - to make two loaves). Yep, it takes a bunch of flour but it is still better bread and cheaper than you can buy it.


I'd like to try it, but I don't know anyone who bakes and has starter. Do you think Whole Foods would carry it, or would a grocery store's bakery let me have a little?


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Spice said:


> Scurvy was a problem ... that food list shows why. Dried fruit and tomatoes are good and easy.


That was an unnecessary problem. Dandelion greens have loads of vitamin C. I know they knew about it because the Indians called it "white man's weed".


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

sideKahr said:


> That was an unnecessary problem. Dandelion greens have loads of vitamin C. I know they knew about it because the Indians called it "white man's weed".


Vitamins, minerals, and basic human metabolism were pretty much unknown to most people in the 1870's. Heck, even doctors were using leeches to drain "bad blood" out of people.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Vitamins, minerals, and basic human metabolism were pretty much unknown to most people in the 1870's. Heck, even doctors were using leeches to drain "bad blood" out of people.


In the old west most used guns to get rid of bad blood.... permanently!


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> I'd like to try it, but I don't know anyone who bakes and has starter. Do you think Whole Foods would carry it, or would a grocery store's bakery let me have a little?


It would be better to make your own starter. It only takes equal amounts of flour and water and a week or two. I could send you some starter (dried) but it might not survive in your environment. Yeast in the air varies a great deal from one part of the country to another. It is always best to let the natural yeast in your area become part of your sourdough. I think I have the process of making a starter on this board. If not I can get that for you.

CAUTION: Sourdough will teach you patience... as always, the HARD way.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

PaulS said:


> I could send you some starter (dried) but it might not survive in your environment. Yeast in the air varies a great deal from one part of the country to another. It is always best to let the natural yeast in your area become part of your sourdough.


Thanks, PaulS. I'll try to find some locally.


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

they also traveled in groups and remember about 1/3 never made it.
another 1/3 stopped somewhere along the way and made that their home.
they also new things have been forgotten


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

We have it so, so, easy now! If we had to do things they way they did then, I can understand full well why there would be a major die off. I.....am under prepared! More knowledge and more daily essential preps are the order of the day.


----------



## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

flour back then had much more nutirents, people were thinner and requierd less food per day to get by. things has changed and there are many traps when comparing things that seems the same but are not. 

Like flour and bread. It is not the same.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I believe the process of harvesting wheat using Glyphosate prior to the harvest to increase seed yield is detrimental to the nutrition of wheat. So yes, hundreds of years ago the Wagon Trains had glyphosate-free nutritious wheat.

(Don't spray Roundup on your food and it will be better for you... maybe?)


----------



## Swedishsocialist (Jan 16, 2015)

Slippy said:


> I believe the process of harvesting wheat using Glyphosate prior to the harvest to increase seed yield is detrimental to the nutrition of wheat. So yes, hundreds of years ago the Wagon Trains had glyphosate-free nutritious wheat.
> 
> (Don't spray Roundup on your food and it will be better for you... maybe?)


The wheat was diffrent lesser harvest but more nutrisious. The grinding were diffrent, the soil it grow in were diffrent and so on. We get bigger yields today but everything else is worse about wheat.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Swedishsocialist said:


> The wheat was diffrent lesser harvest but more nutrisious. The grinding were diffrent, the soil it grow in were diffrent and so on. We get bigger yields today but everything else is worse about wheat.


Damn, write this day down...me and the Socialist from Sveden agree on something!  Next thing you know, I'll be playing BrannBoll with him and his family eating some nasty rotten fish out of a rusted can! HA!


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

Swedishsocialist said:


> flour back then had much more nutirents, people were thinner and requierd less food per day to get by. things has changed and there are many traps when comparing things that seems the same but are not.
> 
> Like flour and bread. It is not the same.


no they didn't, they ate like horses when it was time to eat -they did a relatively new concept called hard work, they had to work for that food -they didn't sit around on their ass typing on keyboards or cruising around in a Volvo-s talking on a cell/smart phone they also didn't live as long ,they also went to bed and didn't have 24 hour open all night stores there is a whole list of what they didn't have and what they had to do to even get things that we take for granted today back then a SHTF happened it was an AHH not again reaction then they picked up and rebuilt cause they did it every day.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

The natives survived and flourished for centuries without all those supplies. They figured out how to live off the land and respect it. Then the sheep from the cities moved out and had to have all the supplies, land, and resources destroying a perfect way of live. Killing all the game and wild animals, polluting the water, taking what they wanted regardless of who was there first. Funny how history repeats it's self.


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Chipper said:


> The natives survived and flourished for centuries without all those supplies. They figured out how to live off the land and respect it. Then the sheep from the cities moved out and had to have all the supplies, land, and resources destroying a perfect way of live. Killing all the game and wild animals, polluting the water, taking what they wanted regardless of who was there first. Funny how history repeats it's self.


I think the resistance will be stronger this time but can only add "yes, yes we do. And gee, now that we know so much more about nutrition and pathogens, it really improved that live birth thing and knocked back all those plagues, parasites and birth defects." Because nature doesn't grant much but life, sometimes really, really fkd up excuses of it too. It is said "ludites live in thatched huts and die young" and unless they have kept speed with "the knowledge of blood and dust" they do.
it did not happen by any accident in this country that we created a people hitler feared. That was intentional nutrition for 3 generations. 
Not keep having babies until one lives and then go again because it'll be a year or so before you will know if you get to keep that one.

A long post to say "multivitamins and high impact wild foods save you" like algae. I lived out for over a decade. 
Plenty "country" places where everybody including the animals look anemic heading for cross eyed.


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Chipper said:


> The natives survived and flourished for centuries without all those supplies. They figured out how to live off the land and respect it. Then the sheep from the cities moved out and had to have all the supplies, land, and resources destroying a perfect way of live. Killing all the game and wild animals, polluting the water, taking what they wanted regardless of who was there first. Funny how history repeats it's self.


I think the resistance will be stronger this time but can only add "yes, yes we do. And gee, now that we know so much more about nutrition and pathogens, it really improved that live birth thing and knocked back all those plagues, parasites and birth defects." Because nature doesn't grant much but life, sometimes really, really fkd up excuses of it too. It is said "ludites live in thatched huts and die young" and unless they have kept speed with "the knowledge of blood and dust" they do.
it did not happen by any accident in this country that we created a people hitler feared. That was intentional nutrition for 3 generations. 
Not keep having babies until one lives and then go again because it'll be a year or so before you will know if you get to keep that one.

A long post to say "multivitamins and high impact wild foods save you" like algae. I lived out for over a decade. 
Plenty "country" places where everybody including the animals look anemic heading for cross eyed.


----------



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I waited, I wanted to see who got it, an ONE so far touched on it slightly.

The list is huge for a reason. 
1. Lots of work and walking along the way, so lots of calories burned meant more food to replace them.
2. The goal was to arrive ASAP. The longer it took to arrive, the more it cost, and the more time spent NOT raising crops and livestock or mining, so the more money to buy supplies until they could produce yield. 
3.The goal was to arrive ASAP. The trip took months, nearly a year( longer with hardship), and getting stuck in the mountains... well I'm sure we have all heard of the Donner party.
4. Because of these considerations, they traveled as fast as possible, and stopped as little as possible. The first few groups had it easy (relatively) as they were able to forrage and hunt along the way. The remainder were confined to roadways that had been picked clean by those before them, and were avoided by game for the same reason. 
5. The settlers lived in a time before many diseases had been wiped out. Neither did they know what they were dealing with or how to treat it properly.
6. The settlers were farmers, miners, and "city slickers" not "survivalists" while the farmers had a probably greater knowledge of nature than most of us do, most of the flora and fauna was foreign to them. 
7. Due to a no longer existing lack of technology, medical science, and preservation techniques, large quantities were even more necessary due to losing an average of 1/3 of the food on the way to rot, infestation, etc.
8.The people selling the supplies, and many of the guides, were crooks. While that may have been the packing list, many parties were ambushed later and their goods stolen back to be resold. 
9.Due to this practice, and the fact that the vendors just wanted money, with no care to the survival of the parties, they sold bad goods, at marked up prices, and upsold everyone they could with unnecessary crap "that all the surviving parties are using or wished they'd had"


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Chipper said:


> The natives survived and flourished for centuries without all those supplies. They figured out how to live off the land and respect it. Then the sheep from the cities moved out and had to have all the supplies, land, and resources destroying a perfect way of live. Killing all the game and wild animals, polluting the water, taking what they wanted regardless of who was there first. Funny how history repeats it's self.


You really think they flourished???? I think you need to pick up some history books...Some tribes did much better..some worse..some disappeared..


----------



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> You really think they flourished???? I think you need to pick up some history books...Some tribes did much better..some worse..some disappeared..


I think you are the one in need of a history book. They did flourish. Until the white man came a killed everything in sight, poisoned water supplies, over fished waterways, fenced farmlands that were once grazing lands, game paths, and migratory paths.


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

You're rose coloring "flourish" in nature. Birth survivors did not get much past 20 if that far. Some got old old 40.
We ran around naked and our favorite social activity was killing each other. It was not so "smooth" and the mind set very far removed from what people try to imagine.
living in nature now is so much less fear and suffering because of knowing things. Just not everybody bothers but still.


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I tried doing a search but found nothing. Thought I read Lewis and Clark never ran out of whisky, ammo or coffee on their travels. jmo.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> I think you are the one in need of a history book. They did flourish. Until the white man came a killed everything in sight, poisoned water supplies, over fished waterways, fenced farmlands that were once grazing lands, game paths, and migratory paths.


Before the europeans arrived.. the natives had no concept of the WHEEL.. They were lashing their possessions together with strips of animal hide and dragging or carrying them.

They had not even used a domesticated horse until Cortez provided them.

They had not developed a simple written language - they were drawing images on rocks.

The Indians that are alive today never lived the life that their ancestors did - so the ancestors' way of life can be glamorized and the suffering ignored. The Indians today claim that, as a result of decisions beyond their control. They claim that they were and are still denied the opportunity to live the life that there ancestors enjoyed. An example of how clueless today's Indians are about their ancestors: when they are reenacting "traditional-ancestral" dances and ceremonies they are often wearing metal bells, pieces of mirror and other items that their ancestors never knew of. The first time that an Indian had a metal bell was when a white-man gave it to them.

What the Indians don't want any white people to think about is that many Indian tribes were almost constantly at war with each other. Life was not always peaceful and beautiful. A marauding enemy tribe could attack and kill at any moment. Even wild animals could attack and they only had their sharp sticks to defend themselves.
The American Indians of today don't want you to remember that most of their ancestors died before their 40th birthday. Those that didn't die from fighting would die from sickness because they had no cure for anything. Everything from appendicitis to tooth infection was usually fatal. The mortality rate for infants was unbelievably high. They lived in caves and mud houses and with the exception of the use of fire for cooking and heat; their quality of life was very close to that of the animals around them.


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

The "natural man" is much more at home, knowing home these days so much better. Our last 3 babies were early because they were ready. "Indian food" these days is better than most city people get, for those that take the trouble. It's the right not to take the trouble that you want to keep for yourself. These things have a way of mushrooming up so many laws and regulations that nobody can live at all. If muslims come, they will intentionally kill us first business like they do everywhere, most recently new guinea. The only natives neutral about islam are maine's "lo infomashun" trailer dwellers but they will know them when they see them. That's for sure.

"Their quality of life was very close to that of the animals around them."

That is not offensive to me. I would change the word "quality" for level. I have lived without doors, but the quality was pretty high. If you end up outdoors, focus on the little things that make it nicer - and nutrition.


"The American Indians of today don't want you to remember that most of their ancestors died before their 40th birthday.."

Actually a native said all that right before you did. It's just your big hulking awkward need to overspeak, repeat and speak for natives and you generalise too much. You're the dumb one that doesn't want anybody to know now kimosabe


----------



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Is living free of stupid laws so terrible? What is wrong with mud huts? Sharp sticks? But I thought (because its true) the indians pioneered flint napping and had knives and arrowheads that cut cleaner than modern scalpels? There were what... three warring tribes, who fought each other? And didn't they hold similar beliefs to most other "civilized" nations that being a warrior and seeking a glorious death was the way to glory and to please their god? 

We live in the homes we do now instead of mud huts and tee pees and wigwams because modern man needs more space to put more stuff. We don't NEED 90% of the crap we have. We would rather pay someone to bring us electricity that works when we flip a switch than firewood we have to cut and carry. We are so busy with our jobs, we forget our lives. We get obsessed with who has the nicer lawn, Christmas lights, BMW lease, corner office, etc. I thought we were people interested in living by the sweat of our own brow, and brawn of our own back. Isn't the best part of prepping knowing that we will reach a point that we don't need to depend on others for our survival? Aren't we driven by the ideal of living on our own? The natives farmed and hunted, gathered and traded. They cared for each other. They worshiped their god, and they lived beautifully. Yes their life expectancy was only 40 years, but that's no worse than the average life expectancy of many other "civilized" cultures of the time. 

pulled from Medrounds.org
Over the centuries average life expectancy has increased from about age 20 in ancient Rome some 2,000 years ago (death in childhood and youth were common there owing to the lack of sanitation and medical know-how) to about age 40 at the time that the pilgrims came to America. Between the time of the pilgrims and 1900, life expectancy in America grew slowly to about age 47.

I'd say they were doing just fine. Besides, better to live fast and die hard, sliding sideways into your grave hollerin' "WOOO What a ride!" Than to live cautious, never experiencing life, never risking, and never standing for something, and fearing everything because you understand nothing.

Yea, some of it sucked. Disease, raiding parties, dry spells, dying from a scratch. But do we have it better? Death by power point, traffic jams, cell reception, disease, over crowding, murderers, child molesters, rapists, pills that cure one ailment and cause 10, wide scale war, nukes, liberals, shitty government, bad cops, all on top of the stuff that they already had, fires, floods, cancer, etc. that we know all about, except how to stop it.


----------



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I ramble, I've slept 4 hours in just over 48 sorry.


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

I think both kind of need a history lesson-if it wasn't for the natives the first settlers would have staved and or died before the first winter-thanksgiving ring any bells?
yes the natives did flourish and occupied and settled the whole content and then some.
I hear talk of how fit they were well consider this they worked all day most doing labor ate 3 meals and had little time for anything else -no sitting around munching on crunch-munch while watching TV.
bringing home the bacon -no dude real bacon that was a luxury -chewing the fat again they really chewed the fat and again it was a luxury to be able to do so.
were do you think these sayings come from?
people nowadays take everything for granted we really do- chicken for dinner yes you killed the chicken and butchered it before cooking it that day.
I just can't emphasize just how much work that they had to for everything -and survival? to them that was called life they built it so if something happened they just rebuilt it hard work was a way of life.


----------



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> I think both kind of need a history lesson-if it wasn't for the natives the first settlers would have staved and or died before the first winter-thanksgiving ring any bells?
> yes the natives did flourish and occupied and settled the whole content and then some.
> I hear talk of how fit they were well consider this they worked all day most doing labor ate 3 meals and had little time for anything else -no sitting around munching on crunch-munch while watching TV.
> bringing home the bacon -no dude real bacon that was a luxury -chewing the fat again they really chewed the fat and again it was a luxury to be able to do so.
> ...


And some people still live on hard work. The truly noble lifestyle.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

The Bureau of Indian Affairs is simply another government program that has wasted billions of dollars. Another example of government sponsored slavery of millions of people, the American Indians on government reservations today are poor, unmotivated, and generally live a miserable life. But they gladly keep sucking at the teat of the government mule.

Why Are Indian Reservations So Poor? A Look At The Bottom 1% - Forbes


----------



## topgun (Oct 2, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> It took about 5 months to get OUT WEST
> 
> what did they take
> 
> ...


This is why I advocate living off the land as much as possible. Remember that, those settlers traveling on foot or horseback couldn't carry hundreds of pounds of that stuff, but guess what? They made it across the mountains to the Pacific too. Most took as much hardtack as they could reasonably carry, their rifle, ammo, knife, and whatever, and Mother Nature provided the rest. If they had to give up coffee for a while, and a few other things, so be it. They knew going in that some sacrifices must be made.


----------



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

My daughter and I just spent over a week camping in Glacier and Yellowstone. As we camped and hiked I though of the settlers that cam through this area. Tough people. In comparison we are whimps (another word came to mind).


----------



## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

topgun said:


> This is why I advocate living off the land as much as possible. Remember that, those settlers traveling on foot or horseback couldn't carry hundreds of pounds of that stuff, but guess what? They made it across the mountains to the Pacific too. Most took as much hardtack as they could reasonably carry, their rifle, ammo, knife, and whatever, and Mother Nature provided the rest. If they had to give up coffee for a while, and a few other things, so be it. They knew going in that some sacrifices must be made.


no they couldn't carry all of it on horse back that's why they used wagons and they were called wagon trains. also some of those travelers stopped along the way and set up trading posts. 
living off the land yah ok in the nicer months but go out camping with snow on the ground and the temps below 20 f- I have done it just so I know what to expect and when I was deer hunting.


----------



## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

My great grandmother came across with a huge, cast iron Majestic cook stove in the back of her wagon. You can bet EVERYONE was walking and they must have thrown out every non essential to keep that stove. She left everything else behind, but %$#)*&&*(@!^ no one was going to tell her she was leaving the cook stove!


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

The kind with the bread warmer above and the hot water tank on the side...


----------



## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> The first time that an Indian had a metal bell was when a white-man gave it to them.


This is not true, the Hohokam indians of Arizona traded with the indians of Northern Mexico for copper bells, the copper probably came from deposits of native copper in ore, the clinker was a stone, they are small about the size of a marble.

*Rancher*


----------



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> no they couldn't carry all of it on horse back that's why they used wagons and they were called wagon trains. also some of those travelers stopped along the way and set up trading posts.
> living off the land yah ok in the nicer months but go out camping with snow on the ground and the temps below 20 f- I have done it just so I know what to expect and when I was deer hunting.


Not all settlers went by wagon train was the point being made.

Also, traveling by horse or mule team without wagons was faster, so there was more time to collect from nature on the way, and by traveling this way they were not bound to the roads.

I think you miss the concept that travel was done during fair weather months, so they didn't have to camp in winter. They would arrive in time to build a home, or stay in towns until winter passed.


----------



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Again, Donner party.

Smart people didn't make that mistake.


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

With regards to the Donner party, don't lollygag on your way out there. Most folks would tend to stick to traveled roads rather than blaze a new trail. Not sure there were even maps of the territory at the time to speak of. To be sure, time was of the essence.


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

American Indian pharmacology was better that the "white man" medicine of the time in a lot of areas. Many early settlers learned how to treat wound infection from the native populations. Look at any edible and medicinal plants and you are looking at the American Indians pharmacology. If the medicine man couldn't heal his patient then his life was forfeit. The medicine man was a respected member of the tribe because he/she knew the plants of the area and what they could do. At least the Indians knew better than to "bleed" a patient to get rid of "bad blood".


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Thank you


----------



## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

oddapple said:


> View attachment 11994
> 
> Thank you


Not at all, THANK YOU!


----------

