# I feel like my 2" barrel 357 mag belongs in the garbage



## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Only recently have I looked into the ballistics numbers and barrel length...

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .357 Mag Results

I'm pretty blown away at the jump from 2" to 3", it is the most drastic jump. Wow, a 3" barrel blows the doors off of a 2" barrel (and 3" is still in that comfortable carry length). I definitely want a 3" carry instead now...problem...not a single HAMMERLESS 3" revolver that I could find UGHHH!!! Man why don't they make the SP101 3" in hammerless?

I still will admit that for carry the exposed hammer catching onto clothing is a bigger liability than the power loss (IMO). I was originally so happy when I bought my snubby, the new Kimber K6S. Now I'm starting to just think of it as a gun with one MAJOR flaw!! After reading up on ballistics by the inch I'm completely convinced that if Kimber released the K6S in a 3" version it would be the greatest gun on the planet!! Why no hammerless 3" revolvers??


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

Probably because the market is so limited. Why not a 4"


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Back it down to .38 or .38 +P and save the .357's for a longer barrel.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

At 7 to 10 feet it hardly matters. Like hunting, the key is bullet placement.

For example, my Kimber .45 ACP has a .22LR conversion kit. It I take the weakest .22LR target load, and sever your aorta, you're as dead as if I dropped a safe on you.

I carry a SW 360PD. I use .38 SPL Hornady Critical Defense in it because follow up shots are more reliable.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

If you can not kill it with a 357 even a 2 inch barrel . It can not be killed. Quit looking at those sill charts and go shot some thing. You will be at peace. It takes a bit to get use to any short barrel weapon.
Big down side to a shield hammer


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Perhaps reality ought to be checked. BBTI did not actually test a 2" .357. These folks did and go a solid 1300 + FPS with a 125 grainer. https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2010/10/28/snubby-ballistics/#

But if you're really that upset I'll give you ten silver dollars for that 2" .357


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

A hand gun is a compromise to begin with. Your trading power for portability. Your not looking to make a fifty yard shot with a snuby. A Short barrel is another power compromise for consealablity. It's up close and personal with this particular firearm. You can compensate to a point with ammo selection but as previously stated it's shot placement plain and simple.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

I keep a 2 inch snub 357 in the car. At 7 yards what else do you need?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Fire a 2 inch .357 at night, then find your target again if you've missed (it could happen). Blinding fireballs aren't my thing, and most crime happens at night.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=275

Get your ammo from these fine folks and you'll get the most bang for your buck


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Consider me your garbage receptacle and send that baby my way.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

Its still a good gut gun/get off me gun. Those few hundred FPS you miss out dont make a difference within 20feet...shot placement is key, use what you got.

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The S&W model 66 comes in 2-1/2 inch, 357 mag.

I have two of them, one from the early 80's and one from mid 90's.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> The S&W model 66 comes in 2-1/2 inch, 357 mag.
> 
> I have two of them, one from the early 80's and one from mid 90's.


I have the same, a -2, and feel plenty well armed as handguns go.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Know the great state of Texas tried the 2" SW subbies..for the udercover folks. Recall they all hated those guns. Believe I would vote with them who say to shoot some .38 specials in it at least for target practce. Know on wadcutter target loads...38s hit about 6" higher than the .357 mags at 25 yards with hot factory loads. I still cant understand why anybody want to lug around a big old bulky wheel gun when trying to be in the stealthy mode. I will takes a skinny semi auto any old day for a concealed carry gun.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

stowlin said:


> Probably because the market is so limited. Why not a 4"





Camel923 said:


> A hand gun is a compromise to begin with. Your trading power for portability.


True, but I'm just thinking about diminishing return factors and 'Sweet spots.' It seems like 3" is still a carry size and 4" is not. So I wouldn't ever expect a manufacturer to try a 4" hammerless but I think a 3" hammerless would be a great idea. The power increase is greater from 2" to 3" it's more generous than from 3" to 4", and it's still carry size, that's 2 for 2 in finding that sweet spot!! A lot of people say that 6" is another sweet spot for 357 mag, that the power increases past 6" begin to not be worth the length increase, but the power increase past 4" up to 6" are still worth the length. But that's not to say that 4" or 5" aren't worth it for their portability advantage over 6", it's just saying that 7" and 8" aren't really worth the power/length trade off.

Another example, I was checking out 44 mag also and it seems like the 7.5" barrel of the Super Redhawks hits a power sweet spot but the 9.5" is in a category of diminished returns (I was thinking of getting a SRH). Anyway, I will stick with my 2" snubby because 3" hammerless don't even exist, but I might start debating whether or not I want to switch to a 3" carry and deal with the hammer.



SDF880 said:


> Back it down to .38 or .38 +P and save the .357's for a longer barrel.


And this is actually a much better consideration in a 2" barrel than a 3". If I switch to 3" no way I'd go with 357 mag. In 2" I might agree with you.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Yer garbage can is not yer friend, I am! Send it to me, and I will suffer for you.:vs_cool: Call me the considerate sort, I have compassion for you.:laugh:


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

When the J frame sized .357 magnum came onto the scene I, along with just about every other Cop was chomping at the bit to get our hands on the latest and greatest. The first time I shot mine and went home with a bruise in the palm of my hand and realized how utterly uncontrollable follow-up shots were I never put more than .38 spl. +P loads in it. When the Glock 26 came out I gave the little revolver to my son and never looked back. Don't regret that move one bit. I ended up giving the other son my G26 because he had nothing at home to defend his new family and now I have a Smith Shield 9mm that fits my needs like a glove, especially with the thumb safety. 

I honestly believe that the .357 magnum is pretty much obsolete from a practical self defense point of view. Not that it won't kill the hell out of something, but because it is a revolver that for all intents and purposes is tantamount to swatting flies with a sledge hammer. As a hunting sidearm in a 3" or longer barrel? You bet! As a concealment 2" or smaller option? Nope.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I have a S&W 642 that I carry in my coat pocket.

I carry it there because I can fire through the coat without a malfunction.

It is loaded with +P JHP ammo and has CT laser grips.

It is primarily a backup to whatever auto I may be carrying.

I carried the previously mentioned S&W 66 2-1/2 inch on duty, plain clothes before we were allowed to carry automatics.

The first duty auto I carried was a S&W 639, and as a backup to that was a S&W mod 60.

IIRC, the 357 magnum round was developed for police service revolvers with barrels between 4 and 6 inches long.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

csi-tech said:


> I honestly believe that the .357 magnum is pretty much obsolete.


Oh, there are plenty of pluses.

You can find .38 SPL ammunition at any hardware store in any town in America. As stated, a hammerless model can be fired from inside a coat. A J-frame also makes a better firearm for an ankle holster since it handles dirt and grit better than an auto.

I carry both. My main defensive pistol is a Kimber UC2 .45 ACP automatic. But my J-frame is a 360PD with a fiber-optic front sight. Because of it's scandium frame, I use Hornady Critical Defense with a lighter bullet in .38 SPL as a back-up.

Consider this. Ruger makes a large frame blackpowder revolver. I would have no issue with using it for defense.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

stowlin said:


> Probably because the market is so limited. Why not a 4"


Simple.
My 2" five shot 357 magnum fits just fine in my front pocket.
A 4" six shot 357 won't.

My alternate pocket carry is a 2.5" five shot 44 Special.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Simple.
> My 2" five shot 357 magnum fits just fine in my front pocket.
> A 4" six shot 357 won't.
> 
> My alternate pocket carry is a 2.5" five shot 44 Special.


Maybe they'll make a 500 Smith & Wesson snubby.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> Maybe they'll make a 500 Smith & Wesson snubby.


LGS had a 3-1/2 inch one had the grace of a brick.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> Maybe they'll make a 500 Smith & Wesson snubby.


Ouch. 2 inch revolvers no madder the caliber get hard to get good with we know that. Don't mean you can't just takes more range time.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Hey, you do not want it?
I will pay postage and transfer and take it off your hands.
PM me


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Local pawn shop across the state line has an original 6" N-frame S&W 357 magnum with a price tag of $600 on it. It is worn enough to lend some character.
I don't know the S&W model number of the beast.
Even though the shop is less than 8 miles from our place I can not just walk in, pay, and walk out with it. It has to be sent to an FFL in my state. Bummer.
I'm trying to talk myself out of it by remembering I already have four 357's.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> Maybe they'll make a 500 Smith & Wesson snubby.


44 magnum is as large as I go - and that's in a Ruger Super Blackhawk 7.5"
Plenty of steel to soak up felt recoil.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Local pawn shop across the state line has an original 6" N-frame S&W 357 magnum with a price tag of $600 on it. It is worn enough to lend some character.
> I don't know the S&W model number of the beast.
> Even though the shop is less than 8 miles from our place I can not just walk in, pay, and walk out with it. It has to be sent to an FFL in my state. Bummer.
> I'm trying to talk myself out of it by remembering I already have four 357's.


Most likely a mod 27 or a 28.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> Fire a 2 inch .357 at night, then find your target again if you've missed (it could happen). Blinding fireballs aren't my thing, and most crime happens at night.


I close my eyes when I pull the trigger so the fireball effect is minimal.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

I am shocked. Sorry to all of you haters. A 357 snubbie is the epitome of filling a nitch. Personally I don't understand the hate. 

There isn't a slide to rack or a safety to remember. Myself I like holding the trigger back and fanning the hammer Hollywood style. It is what is, and that is a damn fine 'Belly Gun'. Easy to conceal and always goes bang when you pull the trigger. 

With the open hammer version SP101 we can put all 5 in the body in rapid fire at 7 yards. It is always with Wifey 24/7. She uses it, and practices with it. In it's range it is killer. 

HP 38+P or full on HP.357? Does it really matter? Go out 15' and tell me which one hurts more.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Maol9 said:


> I am shocked. Sorry to all of you haters. A 357 snubbie is the epitome of filling a nitch. Personally I don't understand the hate.


I'm not saying hate, I'm saying that 3" is a considerable power increase (and better control) from 2" and 3" is STILL a good carry size. There really should be hammerless 3 inchers! A Ruger SP101 3" hammerless would be ideal.

EDIT...

Wow! Where can I buy a SP101 like this with the hammer spur removed??

http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=347feed


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

First it would appear that you have this pistol for pocket carry. If that's the case, try a 3 incher in your pocket and you'll quickly find that it's not very feasable. Trust me on this one as someone that has carried concealed for over 40 years. Three inch is great for a shoulder holster, or ankle holster. However if you end up with it on your belt a 4" is just as easy to conceal as a 2 or 3 incher.

Again my offer of 10 silver dollars is still on the table


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> First it would appear that you have this pistol for pocket carry.


No I like appendix IWB carry. So 3" would be less intrusive in a seated position than 4".


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> Maybe they'll make a 500 Smith & Wesson snubby.



View attachment 36266

Not a "snubby" but darn close. 
https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-sw500-4


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Slippy said:


> View attachment 36266
> 
> Not a "snubby" but darn close.
> https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-sw500-4


That is close. All it needs is a two finger boot grip and a carry melt treatment and you have a winner.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I think there's a misunderstanding about inferring the size of the defensive weapon with its effectiveness.

For example, we've discussed non-lethal fending weapons. Recently I've become a great fan of Bradford knives, I now own three of them. My defensive carry Bradford is a Guardian 3 crafted from N690. I have polished the edge to a kirinaga finish, a sharp but toothy edge which excels at slicing meat.

If you saw it laying on a table, you'd first mistake it to be a kitchen paring knife. Using Escrima thrusts and snap cuts I doubt if the EMTs would make it there in time to save the attacker. If the aggressor was foolish enough to take a stance with one leg forward, I'd just slice his femoral artery and walk away.

Now, having read that, compare this to the poser crap seen in TK magazine. I've never seen anyone lug around a Bagwell Bowie knife or get a cup of coffee toting a Ka-Bar. The size of the device means nothing--it's the training and the preparation of the tool.

I have faith in my two-inch SW J-frame, I chose ammunition carefully, and we test fired it enough to make sure the fixed sights were spot on. Hornady Critical Defense is in all our defensive pistols and revolvers. And let's be honest, in our circle of CCW holders, how many of us carry a Desert Eagle?


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Slippy said:


> View attachment 36266
> 
> Not a "snubby" but darn close.
> https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-sw500-4


I wonder why Ruger doesn't make a 500? Is it because a lot of manufacturers think it's ridiculous, that beyond a certain power point it's time to graduate to long gun?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> First it would appear that you have this pistol for pocket carry. If that's the case, try a 3 incher in your pocket and you'll quickly find that it's not very feasable. Trust me on this one as someone that has carried concealed for over 40 years. Three inch is great for a shoulder holster, or ankle holster. However if you end up with it on your belt a 4" is just as easy to conceal as a 2 or 3 incher.
> 
> Again my offer of 10 silver dollars is still on the table


Dittos Sir. Having had the honor to lug around a 4" Wheel gun for quite a few years..will say there aint no practical way to carry it on your person in a rational concealed manner. Taking the barrel length down to 3" would not solve the problem. Being about width of a softball dont help.


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## Economic Survivalist (Dec 21, 2016)

In most scenarios isn't within close range. For concealment purposes I think the 2" is fine. I am more of a .40 cal type of guy anyhow. Why did you go with .357?


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

Economic Survivalist said:


> In most scenarios isn't within close range. For concealment purposes I think the 2" is fine. I am more of a .40 cal type of guy anyhow. Why did you go with .357?


I know it wasn't aimed at me, but I myself wanted to go 40 all the way as a pistol caliber for us. However Wifey likes the 38/357 over the snappy 40; and thinks that in the middle of the crap going down, that wheel guns which always go bang are a better choice over semi auto's that have to be racked. That is her deal, and she has adamant about it.

I however have been won over to 2" .357 wheel guns, and I personally have come to love her "El Pocito" Ruger Sp101 'Belly Gun'. That is one BA Boot Gun.

I myself, thinking very much like you, will continue to look for the best 'boot gun' 40 for me. I like the round, already own it and there isn't really an advantage to either for me.

Anyways in the end I think of handguns as the only choice when I just 'can't bring any kind of rifle to the party.'

Unless like wifey, you want to 'Lever' your rifle to your carry pistol; as she has chosen to do for simplicity sake. I think I did better with a .40 Kel-Tek Sub2K (Glock Variety) carbine taking the same mags as a throw away (Glock) carry of mine.

She has some serious points on her side though, and I must admit I really do like her 'El Pocito'.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

so you carry an laser gripped handgun in your coat pocket so you can shoot through the coat pocket? that makes an whole lot of sense? I do understand were your coming from I have carried a snubby in my hand under a mitten before.
as for the OP'er dude get over it already if you didn't know you could down load it to a 38 before now you need help and anyone who says the 357 mag is outdated has some serious mental issues.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maol9 said:


> I know it wasn't aimed at me, but I myself wanted to go 40 all the way as a pistol caliber for us. However Wifey likes the 38/357 over the snappy 40; and thinks that in the middle of the crap going down, that wheel guns which always go bang are a better choice over semi auto's that have to be racked. That is her deal, and she has adamant about it.
> 
> I however have been won over to 2" .357 wheel guns, and I personally have come to love her "El Pocito" Ruger Sp101 'Belly Gun'. That is one BA Boot Gun.
> 
> ...


You aint made a point yet. What are you smoking?


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

Economic Survivalist said:


> Why did you go with .357?


It wasn't about caliber as much as it was about hammerless revolver, over a semi auto.



Medic33 said:


> as for the OP'er dude get over it already if you didn't know you could down load it to a 38 before now you need help and anyone who says the 357 mag is outdated has some serious mental issues.


I know it's 38 or 357, and for me it is ONLY 38. I'm saying that at 3" barrel I'm going 357, but at 2" just 38. So I wish they had a hammerless 3" so I could go 357, too much power loss at the expense of kick/flash/slow recovery time to go 357 in 2 inch.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> It wasn't about caliber as much as it was about hammerless revolver, over a semi auto.
> 
> I know it's 38 or 357, and for me it is ONLY 38. I'm saying that at 3" barrel I'm going 357, but at 2" just 38. So I wish they had a hammerless 3" so I could go 357, too much power loss at the expense of kick/flash/slow recovery time to go 357 in 2 inch.


 Load your 357 with good 38's it will kill a man at normal range with ease. The heavier frame 357 will shoot with much less recoil. You worry to much about the charts
This is not a 357 hunt weapon it is a CC man stopper through the charts away.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Given a choice of only one gun. I'd take a .357 every time regardless of barrel length.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I bought my SW 360PD because I can use .38 SPLs and/or .357 Magnum cartridges. I carry the revolver with .38 SPLs.

If you've ever fired a scandium framed revolver with full-house loads, you know why...


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## Economic Survivalist (Dec 21, 2016)

I am a pretty good shot but in a stressful situation I have my doubts so for me a .40 is the perfect amount of power and I can get a few more rounds.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Pir8fan said:


> Given a choice of only one gun. I'd take a .357 every time regardless of barrel length.


I'd amend that to "cartridge" and take two guns ... 4" revo and an 18" lever action. For the 21st Century, a Glock 21 and a Kriss Vector in .45ACP would be equally capable.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> You aint made a point yet. What are you smoking?


Kilbeggan. A very nice blended Irish Whiskey.

To be more clear and succinct (without Kilbeggan), I wasn't a fan of wheel guns or the .357. I have mostly been a 40/45/10mm snob. My wife has a different view. Her EDC is a 2" Sp101 .357.

Since practicing with her 'El Pocito' I have become both a wheel-gun and a .357 fan.

I personally am still going to stick with the .40 as my personal caliber, currently I am looking to add 2 to the 2 I have.

In the end the point is that I really don't feel to bad that we also have to support her .357s too.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I have 2, 357 revolvers and one marlin lever in 357, I have no reservation using the round for SD,

Essentially, they are for SHTF and I still have 10K rounds of 125gr JHP ammo to feed them.

In my four 38 specials I use +P.

Both rounds are historical man stoppers.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> It wasn't about caliber as much as it was about hammerless revolver, over a semi auto.
> 
> I know it's 38 or 357, and for me it is ONLY 38. I'm saying that at 3" barrel I'm going 357, but at 2" just 38. So I wish they had a hammerless 3" so I could go 357, too much power loss at the expense of kick/flash/slow recovery time to go 357 in 2 inch.


 No such thing as a hammerless revolver, it is either a bobbed hammer or a shielded hammer but it still has one . Down side to one is you are limited to double action only.
With such a powerful hand gun a single action allows you to lock hammer back and fire giving you much better control and far more accurate shots.


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