# I may not vote this year



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Some ideas that are rattling around in my head.........

I have heard the argument "If you do not vote for a republican you are electing a democrat.

I understand the idea, but can I vote if all I am doing is voting for the lesser of two evils. I would still be giving my approval to evil.

With the understanding that Romans 13:1 is correct (there is no authority except that which God has established.) then whoever gets elected is there to do what God has determined...God has used bad leaders in the past in order to teach and or punish.

Some will say "if you do not vote, you do not have a right to voice your opinion later!" I would suggest they go and read the 1st amendment again - No vote is required for a person to speak their mind.

After serving 21 years in the military, I have earned the right to vote many times over...I have also earned the right to reserve/withhold my vote


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I've had thoughts along those lines, too. In court, you may plead guilty, not guilty, or stand mute. Each has its time and place.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Vote in the local and state elections. Strengthen those governments as best as possible. We are getting to the point where we are having to fall back to those last lines of defense.


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## Broncosfan (Mar 2, 2014)

I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone in this thinking. Our country is bad enough and it sure doesn't look to get any better come November.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> Vote in the local and state elections. Strengthen those governments as best as possible. We are getting to the point where we are having to fall back to those last lines of defense.


I believe the most important election you can vote in... is your county sheriff


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I believe the most important election you can vote in... is your county sheriff


The bigger the county, the more important!


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

You should vote. You are able to write in a name if none of the listed candidates meet your needs. Write in your OWN name if you want...but PLEASE vote!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

SittingElf said:


> You should vote. You are able to write in a name if none of the listed candidates meet your needs. Write in your OWN name if you want...but PLEASE vote!


Casting no presidential vote yet voting in the other elections is a message unto itself .


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Voted in the primaries today. 
If Trump in the nominee I will vote for all positions except I will leave president blank. I will not vote for Trump.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

I will vote and I will vote on who ever hits my mind to do the right thing at the time . " Go get them Cruz "


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

I voted for the Republicans in the past elections, but they were just a let down. I'm not voting for a politician anymore until they show that they are not afraid to go after the libtards.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I am appalled by establishment Reupublicans repeatedly betraying the base. Each must vote or not vote according to your convictions. No vote means you should not gripe about the result in my opinion. Lesser of two evils beats being stuck with Hildabeast in my estimation. Politicians are liars and cheats by definition. Getting a straight arrow elected to national office is virtually impossible.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

It's a civic duty. Like it or not.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I will vote for the lesser of the "evils" because sometimes to get where we want , it may take small steps to get there, that won't happen right away, but we can't give up.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

As much as I hate trump and don't want or think he will be a good president or anything else. My total DISGUST for that POS hildabeast will force my hand and make me vote for trump. There is no way in hell I can let that dumb ----- become president. Do I like the idea, hell no. But I'm sure it's the lesser of two evils, not by much.

By not voting against hilldabeast your in effect voting for her. Wasting your vote for a write in candidate as a protest will certainly insure her win.

I'm hoping and praying something will happen and not force me into this situation. Remember the bottom line is to keep hildabeast out of office. Cause we all KNOW for a fact how that will end.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I would vote for Cruz. I have the absentee ballot in front of me.
By the 8th he may not even be in the race after this Stupid Tuesday

There's a spot for uncommitted, and a write in spot.

So yes I will vote
ballot
Santorum
Trump
Bush
Carson
Christie
Cruz
Fiorina
Graham
Huckabee
Kasich
Pataki
Paul
Rubio
Uncommitted
Blank
Some are already out


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## pakrat (Nov 18, 2012)

Of course it’s the lesser of two evils. To expect anything else would be to ignore or not understand the nature of the times in which we live. Until the perfect candidate arrives in all of his glory, you need to choose between a wound to the hand or one to the head. Do it while we all still have the freedom to make such a choice.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

pakrat said:


> Of course it's the lesser of two evils. To expect anything else would be to ignore or not understand the nature of the times in which we live. Until the perfect candidate arrives in all of his glory, you need to choose between a wound to the hand or one to the head. Do it while we all still have the freedom to make such a choice.


No part of the body is greater than the other
1 Corinthians 12:22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable,
And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." 22On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable,


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

No matter who wins in November, this nation will be worse off. The only question is if the decline will speed up under Hillary or slow down under a Republican. I'm glad I won't be around to see the America we have given to our grandchildren.


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

If the race ends up Trump vs Hillary, it will no longer be a vote between the "lesser of two evils". It will be a vote for the "evil of two lessers".


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Some ideas that are rattling around in my head.........
> 
> I have heard the argument "If you do not vote for a republican you are electing a democrat.
> 
> ...


Just remember if you don't vote and Hilde gets in you have no room to bit000 about the end result.

But you have to go with what your conscience tells you to do


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> It's a civic duty. Like it or not.


It is NOT A CIVIC DUTY... a CIVIC DUTY is JURY DUTY, paying taxes, obeying laws. If you honestly think that voting is a duty - You might want to consider a Social Studies class

now if you wish to talk about Civic Responsibilities


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Chipper said:


> By not voting against hilldabeast your in effect voting for her. Wasting your vote for a write in candidate as a protest will certainly insure her win.


I would never vote for somebody just because I do not like the other person... I would not sleep with a guy just because a women turned me down.

and you may see not voting as a vote for the democrats... and that is your right....

my view.. if somebody demands i pick the person that gets shot first..or if I am given 2 bad choices, ..My answer is silence


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> Just remember if you don't vote and Hilde gets in you have no room to bit000 about the end result.


I would not complain about the results because of Romans, as mentioned before...

I do reserve the right to talk about the bad things they are doing


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> No vote means you should not gripe about the result in my opinion.


Hard to argue with opinions


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

pakrat said:


> Of course it's the lesser of two evils. To expect anything else would be to ignore or not understand the nature of the times in which we live. Until the perfect candidate arrives in all of his glory, you need to choose between a wound to the hand or one to the head. Do it while we all still have the freedom to make such a choice.


I think the perfect candidate would probably be the second coming of Christ, which probably isn't to far in the future, in the mean time let's work with what we have.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

It is your civic duty to vote and countless good and bad people died to allow it. I won't disrespect their sacrifice.
All men are sinners. You have NEVER voted in any election where you weren't picking the lesser of two.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

There are going to be three real choices for the GOP, . . . Trump, Cruz, and Rubio.

Rubio has stated on more than one occasion: amnesty for those here, . . . and basically an open border to the south. Open borders are an invitation to the terrorists, . . . and MUST NOT BE ALLOWED. For me that is a NO vote for Rubio. And that is to say nothing about his never showing up in his senate seat, . . . never authoring a bill, . . . never participating, . . . the Mexican vote put him in, . . . that is all he cares about. He's another junior senator, . . . we're just finishing up with one of those for the last 8 years, . . . don't need to school me on trying that again.

Cruz has a reputation for conservatism: never authored a bill, . . . voted for everything Obama has wanted, . . . never seriously pushed anything, . . . has been a "lets all get along RINO", . . . his people are crooks: if you are a crook hirer, . . . chances are you are a crook yourself. For me that is a NO vote for Cruz. 

Trump is a flamboyant loundmouth, . . . the RINO's hate him, . . . Democrats hate him, . . . the tea party would like to go back to Boston again with him in one of the tea casks, . . . toss him overboard in a NY minute. Lots of things I don't particularly care about some of his businesses, . . . some of his stands on a few things, . . . but so far he has impugned and bashed those most of all who are responsible for our country being in the position it is in.

I'm willing to give him a 4 year shot at fixing it.

Just my $.02..............

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

Here is the way this will work in my opinion: (Hard to argue with, right?)

Option 1:

Trump Vs. dem

Option 2:

Trump loses R nomination, goes Independent vs. dem vs. Cruz

Option 3:

Cruz vs. dem

Hillary will get votes because she has a vagina. Bernie will get votes because he appeals to unemployed college students.

Trump will get votes because he is preaching a different tune, but honestly his tune isn't really all that different.

Cruz will get votes because Paul is gone and he's the next best thing.

In option 1, we'll probably wind up with a dem in office.

In option 2, we'll probably wind up with a dem in office because of the divide. 14% for trump (I), 15% for cruz (R), 20% for dem (D). In the end, the people have spoken with less than half the eligible population turning out to vote and those that do showing an 80% disapproval rating. To me, if you don't get half of the population to turn out, your elections have failed. If out of that half, you don't get a single candidate with over half the voters in their camp, again your elections have failed.

In the end, the Tytler Cycle will bring us closer to revolution.

There is a MUCH better method of voting out there than our "First Past the Post" system. Lets see how our candidates would stand up in an "Alternative Vote" system (See below). In the aforementioned scenario, Trump's lost votes would then go to Cruz and it would be 29% R vs 20% D and Cruz would be in office.

If you don't vote, you have every right to have an opinion post election. That's not only in the first amendment, but its also the stuff of dogmatic indoctrination that keeps the dissenters hushed. Preppers are above that line of thinking.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Thats cool I understand your delima...but if thats the route you wanna take I hope your okay with a Hillary or Bernie presidency, cause that what the result is almost certianly gonna be.


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## SoCal92057 (Apr 12, 2014)

Never let the desire for a perfect candidate get in the way of voting for a good candidate. I will vote for the candidate whose beliefs most closely resemble mine. This year it is Trump.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

I haven't voted "FOR" anyone in years. I've merely voted against someone. Like the guy in front of me said one time: "If God had wanted us to vote, He would have given us candidates."


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Remember that those that didn't vote in 2008 and 2012 because they couldn't stomach McCain or Romney are a good part of the reason we've had 8 years of a really socialist president.

Want four more years of the same or worse? Just sit home


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> It is NOT A CIVIC DUTY... a CIVIC DUTY is JURY DUTY, paying taxes, obeying laws. If you honestly think that voting is a duty - You might want to consider a Social Studies class
> 
> now if you wish to talk about Civic Responsibilities


It's your civic duty. You can neglect it if you wish.

I don't rely on school books written by the very people who are trying to dismantle our great country to determine my civic duties.

I suggest you do your civic duty and go vote.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

If trump gets the nomination I'm voting 3rd party


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> It is your civic duty to vote and countless good and bad people died to allow it. I won't disrespect their sacrifice.
> All men are sinners. You have NEVER voted in any election where you weren't picking the lesser of two.


Bull pucky....

I will not disrespect their sacrifice by voting for a person that is not going to be a good leader.

Reagan was not evil in my mind....

and again.... I am sure you know... Voting is not a CIVIC DUTY....

I am not going to get into the sin versus sinner debate here


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> It's your civic duty. You can neglect it if you wish.
> 
> I don't rely on school books written by the very people who are trying to dismantle our great country to determine my civic duties.
> 
> I suggest you do your civic duty and go vote.


It is hard to argue when the other person is wrong, knows they are wrong, but insists on acting like they are correct

Let me make this easy for you If you fail to perform a civic duty - they can come into your house and arrest you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not vote... nothing happens 
Do not pay taxes - you go to jail (unless your a black preacher that is friends with a high ranking government official)
Do not register for the draft - jail


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy;392984countless good and bad people died to allow it. I won't disrespect their sacrifice.
[/QUOTE said:


> On second reading - I am bothered - Please do not stand on the graves of military members and use them to make an invalid point
> 
> I served for 21 years.. and I am guessing that many military members will sit this one out... and I would bet that if some of the dead were still around they would also...
> 
> ...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> If trump gets the nomination I'm voting 3rd party


depends on who the 3rd party guy is


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> Remember that those that didn't vote in 2008 and 2012 because they couldn't stomach McCain or Romney are a good part of the reason we've had 8 years of a really socialist president.
> 
> Want four more years of the same or worse? Just sit home


Obama is not in office because of a lack of voting.... check the records... he is in office because he got out the vote... there was 2008 57.1% turnout and 2012 54.9

Bush won with a 50% turn out


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Don't know where you and several others get your numbers from, but perhaps a little googling would be in order. And Yes I took your advise and checked the numbers. 2012 Election Turnout Dips Below 2008 and 2004 Levels: Number Of Eligible Voters Increases By Eight Million, Five Million Fewer Votes Cast | Bipartisan Policy Center

the bigger issue is 93 million eligible voters didn't vote. 5% of them would have made a difference.

So go ahead and sit on your rump and then whine when the Hilde beast shows up to ruin your day


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Popular Votes 1940-2012 - Roper Center

If you believe this one, 7 million folks less voted in 2012 than in 2008.


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

*Maine Marine-Hildabeast LOVES YOU!*


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> It is hard to argue when the other person is wrong, knows they are wrong, but insists on acting like they are correct
> 
> Let me make this easy for you If you fail to perform a civic duty - they can come into your house and arrest you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Oh you're defining the legal definition. I'm defining the common sense good American use of civic duty to vote.

See the difference ?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Then you are voting for Hillary. That is how we got Obama twice.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Yeah, I have heard that prattle too, but if I don't vote, I think that I will have the RNC to thank. 
The fat head Republicans in DC have no one to blame but themselves, if the Democrats win.
I have gotten 2 or 3 pieces of mail from the RNC, and they seem like they are lost in the woods.
And I think that they are, and I wonder, will the Republican party die away?
It is possible, other parties have withered and died.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I don't know...is it to late to vote for Slippy?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Trump got into this race as a joke. He latter saw how he could help Hillary and stuck around. Now he thinks he could be the next Hillary president.
You talk so much about rule of law and the Constitution. Then why not Cruz. Ever really listen to him on the subject. He knows we have a Constitution, he knows what it says. Worst case even Rubio would be better than Hillary. But go ahead act silly and put Hillary right in.
But don't say another word about your rights. We got Obama twice because of this kind of talk.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Bad politicians are elected by those who do not vote!

Do not forget-- you are voting against someone too


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Bull pucky....
> 
> I will not disrespect their sacrifice by voting for a person that is not going to be a good leader.
> 
> ...


Forgive the wording. You clearly knew what we meant, and are attempting to win a debate with semantics. A fool's errand, I assure you.

You disrespect the sacrifice of those long passed.
The men who signed their names in defiance of a king, the men who knew they would be executed if caught, the men who lost their lives in the struggle to root this nation...
Those are the ones you disrespect.
They gave you your voice, and you spit on their sacrifice by tossing it out like so many others. Your choice to not vote is exactly the same as the drugged out crack head down the street who won't be voting either. You both made the exact same choice. Your explicit inaction says nothing. I boasts no opinion about what you want for your country. It serves no purpose but to give you some pompous feeling of righteousness.
It helps nothing, and potentially hurts us all.

But, at least you will feel good about it.

This was not ever a debate about sin vs. sinner.
My implication was clear. All men are sinners. You have never voted for a sinless man. When you've chosen, you have ALWAYS chosen the lesser of two evils. ALWAYS!
When you've abstained, you've done the same.
But again, you get to feel good about it.

:chargrined:


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

Dwight, Thank you for saying what I was going to say...

All I am seeing here is what the Dems are saying, "The conservatives are divided and Hillary will win the white house".

I really dont like Trump either but at least he isn't running on a ticket to disarm Americans with Australian style gun control.

My mother in law always runs her mouth about how bad Obama is but she did a write in of Rosanne Barr. I finally told her not to talk to me about it since she voted for a liberal moron any way.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Some ideas that are rattling around in my head.........
> 
> I have heard the argument "If you do not vote for a republican you are electing a democrat.
> 
> ...


If Hillary wins the White House, it's possible, in a short amount of time you might wish you had rethought your desision, IMO.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

don't vote but don't bitch about who gets elected either
it's all rigged forgetabout it.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

you also have to figure in if you didn't vote how did your ballet get cast and by who?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I do not view myself as a republican, and I sure do not owe them any allegiance. Trump gave money to the Clintons and now wants my vote. Trump support many things that I find to be wrong/immoral. He is a rude and arrogant person. I would not invite him to my house for supper so I sure would not hold my nose to cast that vote.

here is s quote from a paper on ethical voting = "Citizens have no standing obligation to vote. They can abstain if they prefer. However, they do have strict duties regarding voting: they must vote well or must abstain. Voting well tends to be difficult, but discharging one’s duties regarding voting is easy, because one may abstain instead."

Voting for a person that is going to SCREW YOU LESS is a funny thing to do.... 

It seems to me that there is coming a time when we will be required to stand up and let our voices be heard and to make sacrifices...I do not think it will be in the polling booth. It will be beneath the tree of liberty...

I will not vote just to keep a 2 party system alive...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> Don't know where you and several others get your numbers from, but perhaps a little googling would be in order. And Yes I took your advise and checked the numbers. 2012 Election Turnout Dips Below 2008 and 2004 Levels: Number Of Eligible Voters Increases By Eight Million, Five Million Fewer Votes Cast | Bipartisan Policy Center
> 
> the bigger issue is 93 million eligible voters didn't vote. 5% of them would have made a difference.
> 
> So go ahead and sit on your rump and then whine when the Hilde beast shows up to ruin your day


Now we need to discuss Registered Voters, Likely Voters, and Eligible voters

here is a good article.. it explains why they do not use eligible voter data Registered Voters vs. Likely Voters

this talks about registered v likely Registered voters vs likely voters | MSNBC

stats are wonderful things....

here are the ones that tell the real story

Voter Turnout in Presidential Elections


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Not worth horse spit. However compare this Republican primary[edit]
United States presidential election in Virginia, 2012
Virginia
2008 ←
March 6, 2012	→ 2016
Mitt Romney by Gage Skidmore 6.jpg	Ron Paul by Gage Skidmore 3 crop.jpg
Candidate	Mitt Romney	Ron Paul
Party	Republican	Republican
Home state	Massachusetts	Texas
Delegate count	43	3
Popular vote	158,119	107,451
Percentage	59.54%	40.46%
Virginia Republican Presidential Primary Election Results by County, 2012.svg

Results by county. Orange indicates a county or city won by Romney, gold by Paul.
Seal of the President of the United States.svg
2012 U.S. Presidential Election
Timeline General election debates
National polling Statewide polling Parties
Democratic Party
Candidates Primaries Nominee Convention
Republican Party
Prelude Candidates Debates Primaries
National polling Statewide polling Straw
Results Nominee Convention Endorsements
Minor parties[show]
Other races House Senate Gubernatorial Vice-Presidential (Dem. Rep.)
v t e
The Republican primary took place on Super Tuesday, March 6, 2012.[4][5]

Virginia has 49 delegates to the 2012 Republican National Convention including three unbound superdelegates. 33 delegates are awarded on a winner-take-all basis by congressional district. The other 13 are awarded to the candidate who wins a majority statewide, or allocated proportionally if no one gets majority.[6]

Virginia Republican primary, March 6, 2012[7][8]
Candidate	Votes	Percentage	Delegates[9]
America Symbol.svg Mitt Romney	158,119	59.54%	43
Ron Paul	107,451	40.46%	3
Unprojected delegates:	3

Total:	265,570	100.00%	49

With the total number of republicans that voted yesterday in VA over 1 million and I think you'll see that this year is different


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Forgive the wording. You clearly knew what we meant, and are attempting to win a debate with semantics. A fool's errand, I assure you.
> 
> You disrespect the sacrifice of those long passed.
> The men who signed their names in defiance of a king, the men who knew they would be executed if caught, the men who lost their lives in the struggle to root this nation...
> ...


To say that I disrespect the sacrifice of those that died shows that you are much like trump... a mean spirited rude arrogant person that thinks it is ok to belittle the person that is not in agreement with them. You stand on the graves of the fallen to lift yourself higher so that your voice might ring louder. Yet it is hollow to the dead...

having served this country for 21 years, I REJECT your premise.

And I will feel satisfied in not voting for Trump...and if i do decide not to even vote for a third part, I will feel good about that. I voted for Ross Perot and am proud I did.... What I will not do is cast my vote for a man or women that I view as unworthy to receive my vote... It si not just a vote.. it is MY VOTE

what did our founders say

"Let each citizen remember at the moment he is offering his vote that he is not making a present or a compliment to please an individual--or at least that he ought not so to do; but that he is executing one of the most solemn trusts in human society for which he is accountable to God and his country."

- Samuel Adams (1722-1803) Father of the American Revolution, Patriot and Statesman


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> Not worth horse spit. However compare this Republican primary[edit]
> United States presidential election in Virginia, 2012
> Virginia
> 2008 ←
> ...


Republicans flooding the voting booths is ALL over - die hards, crossover DemoCraps and even more Independents - in South Carolina it was DOUBLED .... do you have any idea how hard it is to double a party's voters? .... in 2008 the DemoCraps signed up on the welfare blacks to vote Obammy and didn't begin to see double numbers ....


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

The way I see it is simple: a lot of great people gave their lives, the ultimate Sacrifice, to give, and then to keep our right to vote. It's a person's choice to exercise that right I suppose, but, least in my mind, if you don't vote, don't complain. 'Cause when you don't vote, you did vote, you voted "I don't care". Like another wrote nobody is perfect, so in essence you are always voting for the lesser evil. So if you don't wanna vote, don't, Maybe if things continue downhill as it has been, none of us may have be bothered by voting much longer.


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## oldgrouch (Jul 11, 2014)

IF it is Lady MacBeth vs. Don ------- I'll vote Constitutional Party or whatever! It's only a wasted vote if I vote for someone with view I don't hold.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> To say that I disrespect the sacrifice of those that died shows that you are much like trump... a mean spirited rude arrogant person that thinks it is ok to belittle the person that is not in agreement with them. You stand on the graves of the fallen to lift yourself higher so that your voice might ring louder. Yet it is hollow to the dead...
> 
> having served this country for 21 years, I REJECT your premise.
> 
> ...


I'm not speaking to the dead. I'm speaking to those who tarnish their sacrifice.
Thank you for your service. It adds no additional weight to your choice of inaction.

You time to voice your opinion is NOW. That's how the process works. You give it your damndest to support the person you think is best.
If they lose, you did what you could as best you could, and should now support the next best choice.

I was right though. You'll happily screw the rest of us just to feel good about yourself.
Well done... marine.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Illini Warrior said:


> Republicans flooding the voting booths is ALL over - die hards, crossover DemoCraps and even more Independents - in South Carolina it was DOUBLED .... do you have any idea how hard it is to double a party's voters? .... in 2008 the DemoCraps signed up on the welfare blacks to vote Obammy and didn't begin to see double numbers ....


Funny you mention this.
Here in Texas, many districts were scrambling to print more Republican ballots because they were running out.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Illini Warrior said:


> Republicans flooding the voting booths is ALL over - die hards, crossover DemoCraps and even more Independents - in South Carolina it was DOUBLED .... do you have any idea how hard it is to double a party's voters? .... in 2008 the DemoCraps signed up on the welfare blacks to vote Obammy and didn't begin to see double numbers ....


did not realize how drastic the change was until I heard it in the local talk radio show this morning and then checked the 2012 numbers. This could be really bad news for the Hildabeast


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Funny you mention this.
> Here in Texas, many districts were scrambling to print more Republican ballots because they were running out.


Crap. wonder how wide spread this is?

If it holds true thru to November we may not need M&M's vote. Although we should take nothing for granted .


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> I'm not speaking to the dead. I'm speaking to those who tarnish their sacrifice.
> Thank you for your service. It adds no additional weight to your choice of inaction.
> 
> You time to voice your opinion is NOW. That's how the process works. You give it your damndest to support the person you think is best.
> ...


You are an interesting character...

I do wonder why this is bothering you so much and you feel that you have to continue to attack me directly.

I like to lean towards the Ben Shapiro form of debate... when a person accuses you have something you are not guilty of...

*the response is not* "No I am not tarnishing their sacrifice, and here is why"

*The correct response is* "Your an a hole!" and stop talking to them


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

You don't know how happy it would make me if you did stop talking to me. I'll accept any insult it takes to make this happen.

You constantly start threads just to tell us what you think. When somebody opposes your opinion, you don't want to hear about it.
If you want a nice and happy place to post your thoughts, with no worry about opposing views, start a blog.
Otherwise, take yo' licks!


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

The one thing that all can agree to is that we can disagree, I try not to take people's opinions personally, though sometimes that can be difficult, after all, opinions are based on some degree of fact, the problem we run into is that the source of these "facts" my not be at all, but someone else's opinion, our today's media is notorious for that, so I say that everyone I have encountered on this forum are good people, simply because we may disagree doesn't change that, we are all in the same boat, we just need to all paddle in the same direction, that's how we move forward, " just my opinion "


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> You are an interesting character...
> 
> I do wonder why this is bothering you so much and you feel that you have to continue to attack me directly.
> 
> ...


It bothers him for the same reason it bothers a lot of us. If it was just you that didn't vote I doubt if any one would give on good rat's azz. However as senior member there are a lot of new folks that may take your position and say well if it's good enough for M&M not to vote then maybe I won't either. What is clear from the links I previously posted between 3 and 7 million voters did not vote in the 2012 election that did vote in the 2008. More than enough to have put the bozo that's in now out..

From yesterday's primary votes I think we can all see that more republicans are coming out this year than in a long time. That combined with your I'm not gonna vote post may give some folks the idea that we'll win anyway without my vote and not show up in Nov. If enough don't show up we'll see the wicked witch of the south at 1600 PA Ave for over 1200 days.

So yeah we think your post sucks


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> It bothers him for the same reason it bothers a lot of us. If it was just you that didn't vote I doubt if any one would give on good rat's azz. However as senior member there are a lot of new folks that may take your position and say well if it's good enough for M&M not to vote then maybe I won't either. What is clear from the links I previously posted between 3 and 7 million voters did not vote in the 2012 election that did vote in the 2008. More than enough to have put the bozo that's in now out..
> 
> From yesterday's primary votes I think we can all see that more republicans are coming out this year than in a long time. That combined with your I'm not gonna vote post may give some folks the idea that we'll win anyway without my vote and not show up in Nov. If enough don't show up we'll see the wicked witch of the south at 1600 PA Ave for over 1200 days.
> 
> So yeah we think your post sucks


Well then.. instead of attacking me... make the case for voting for Trump...


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## BlackDog (Nov 23, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Well then.. instead of attacking me... make the case for voting for Trump...


Easy.......Hillary as President


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I like Cruz and he is still in the hunt although he faces an uphill battle. I don't like him nor do I trust him but if Trump is the nominee I will give him 4 years. He is an unknown quantity for sure and a wild card but I know damn well what the Hildabeast is. I will not sit on my hands with the knowledge that inaction on my part could very well help allow that bitch 8 years because my guy didn't get the nomination. Benjamin Franklin when asked what our framers gave the country answered " A republic, if we can keep it ". We keep it by voting.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

As Governor Huckabee stated, this could be a quiet overthrow of the Government, Ballots, not bullets, I couldn't agree more, it may not be perfect, but it's better then the alternative, if Hillary gets in, it's 8 more years of Obama, this should be a wake up call to the establishment Republicans. Everyone needs to get out to vote, even if it's not the perfect candidate, small steps.


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## screwedby (Oct 21, 2015)

Operator6 said:


> It's a civic duty. Like it or not.


Who says?

I think it is your civic duty to NOT vote.
Unless you care enough to educate yourself on the issues and candidates.

Please do not guilt-trip stupid people into voting. Look at what happens when they do.

I would much prefer 100,000 educated and informed citizens chose our next president than every eligible voter show up at the polls. That would scare me to death.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Thank the good lord that the framers of the constitution understood misguided logic like yours. Because isn't that what the fourth estate would have us believe that they know better than us bunch of illeterate bafoons. Seems King Georgie the III had similar thoughts as thee


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> Thank the good lord that the framers of the constitution understood misguided logic like yours. Because isn't that what the fourth estate would have us believe that they know better than us bunch of illeterate bafoons. Seems King Georgie the III had similar thoughts as thee


See you think I am not voting out of ignorance.. I MAY not vote due to - as I mentioned before -not voting for evil...either lesser or greater evil

1. He lacks compassion.
The Bible says: "As God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience." (Colossians 3:12)

2. He appeals to fear and anger.
The Bible says: "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love."(1 John 4:18)

The Bible says: "But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, 'You fool,' you will be liable to the hell of fire." (Matthew 5: 22)

3. He is enamored with "greatness" and ego, but has no concern for "goodness" or service.
The Bible says: "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." (Matthew 5: 5-8)

4. He lies - a lot.
The Bible says: "Beware then of useless grumbling, and keep your tongue from slander; because no secret word is without result, and a lying mouth destroys the soul." (Wisdom 1:11)

5. He is hostile to women.
The Bible says: "But now you must get rid of all such things-anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive language from your mouth." (Colossians 3:8)

Trump's feud with Fox News host Megyn Kelly is now the stuff of legend, but what prompted the tension initially were his documented remarks about women, which Kelly reiterated during the Aug. 6 GOP debate: "You've called women you don't like 'fat pigs,' 'dogs,' 'slobs,' and 'disgusting animals.'" Trump has said the remarks were taken out of context.

6. He speaks about his daughter in a disrespectful and sexualized way.
The Bible says: "Do you have daughters? Be concerned for their chastity, and do not show yourself too indulgent with them." (Sirach 7:24)

7. He does not attempt to love his enemies, but instead cultivates antagonism.
The Bible says: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous." (Matthew 5:43-48)

8. He does not model sacrifice or altruism.
The Bible says: "But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first." (Matthew 19:30)

9. He doesn't seem to care about the poor.
The Bible says: "Jesus said to him, 'If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.'" (Matthew 19:21)

Trump's policy ideas across the board are shockingly thin, typical of demagogues. On the issues of poverty, hunger, and oppression, topics everyone from Jesus to Jeremiah cared a great deal about, Trump is deafeningly silent. This alone is unacceptable. To be fair, though, here is one of Trump's few but fairly specific plans for helping the disadvantaged: "Teenage mothers [shouldn't] get public assistance unless they jump through some pretty small hoops. Making them live in group homes makes sense." His best 21st-century idea is the worst of 18th-century ideas.

10. His love of money is more apparent than his love of God or others.
The Bible says: "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money." (Matthew 6:24)

Trump is not who I want to represent me!!!


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> See you think I am not voting out of ignorance.. I MAY not vote due to - as I mentioned before -not voting for evil...either lesser or greater evil
> 
> 1. He lacks compassion.
> The Bible says: "As God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience." (Colossians 3:12)
> ...


My last post wasn't addressed to you, it was aimed at screwed by. Shee'se


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> My last post wasn't addressed to you, it was aimed at screwed by. Shee'se


It helps if you quote the person that you are answering...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

if you do not quote the person you are answering, it could be directed at anybody...She-esh


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> if you do not quote the person you are answering, it could be directed at anybody...She-esh


Stop badgering me. I always quote who I'm talking to!!!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

delegate count to date
Trump leads the field with 319 delegates and Cruz has 226. Rubio has 110

Cruz is still in this race


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

FoolAmI said:


> delegate count to date
> Trump leads the field with 319 delegates and Cruz has 226. Rubio has 110
> 
> Cruz is still in this race


 Unbelievable that Trump has run his scam this long. Said I was done with Buying any more AR's . Went back on that Hilary will be in the white house. Added two more and the parts came tonight to assemble another .


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> Oh you're defining the legal definition. I'm defining the common sense good American use of civic duty to vote.
> 
> See the difference ?


You are entitled to your opinion.. you are not entitled to change definitions....


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> You are entitled to your opinion.. you are not entitled to change definitions....


Funny thing is not everyone uses your definition. I just did a short - very short - google search and it seems that everyone has a different opinion as to weither voting is a civic duty/responsibility.

Just wondering where you got your definition.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> You are entitled to your opinion.. you are not entitled to change definitions....


You have the right to play like you don't understand the use of the words "civic duty" in the context of participating in the election.

That's fine with me if you want to be that guy in the thread. How about some spell check while your at it ?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> Funny thing is not everyone uses your definition. I just did a short - very short - google search and it seems that everyone has a different opinion as to weither voting is a civic duty/responsibility.
> 
> Just wondering where you got your definition.


Well I am a believer in absolute truth.. so in this case one is true and one is false.. lets see

this is the definition based on Merriam Webster http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dut

Now you can accept it or not.

search civic duty versus civic responsibility...

Now - if you think that everybody needs to vote I would suggest you tell your senator to propose a bill to making voting mandatory>> If you are not willing to support making voting mandatory then I would suggest you are a hypocrite. If you are for making voting mandatory..the republicans will never be in power again... think about it


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> You have the right to play like you don't understand the use of the words "civic duty" in the context of participating in the election.
> 
> That's fine with me if you want to be that guy in the thread. *How about some spell check while your at it *?


How about some proper grammar while you're at it!!!!! HA HA HA

I understand that you mistakenly think it is a duty!


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Well I am a believer in absolute truth.. so in this case one is true and one is false.. lets see
> 
> this is the definition based on Merriam Webster http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dut
> 
> ...


I cut this from your reference and it's one of three examples they use:

Examples of civic in a sentence
Recent improvements to the downtown area are a point of civic pride.
the library association and other civic groups
Voting is your civic duty.

Now I did try and search for Civic Duty and your reference could not find it.

However Black's Law does define Civil obligation. One which binds in law, and may be enforced in a court of justice. Which may have been what you were trying to reference.

Be that as it may, you can vote or not vote that is totally up to you, but ask yourself if I don't vote am I part of the solution or part of the problem.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Now I will try and mash from the two words a definition that M&M may be referring to (again from his reference). Civic {relating to citizenship or being a citizen} Duty { something that you must do *because it is morally right* or because the law requires it }

So my question for all if you choose not to vote are you shirking your civic duty in not doing what is morally right?


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> How about some proper grammar while you're at it!!!!! HA HA HA
> 
> I understand that you mistakenly think it is a duty!


That's debatable but it doesn't change the core of my position. Every good American should vote. I do my fair share, do you ?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> Now I will try and mash from the two words a definition that M&M may be referring to (again from his reference). Civic {relating to citizenship or being a citizen} Duty { something that you must do *because it is morally right* or because the law requires it }
> 
> So my question for all if you choose not to vote are you shirking your civic duty in not doing what is morally right?


Morally right.... that is indeed a good point.. is it morally right to cast your vote when you're not convinced that they lesser of two evils is deserving of your vote. (noticed I used your and you're in one sentence correctly - I did that for operator6)

I have no obligation to vote in order to make you happy. I have no legal obligation to vote. I have no religious* obligation to vote.

*Morals change every 5 years so I use holiness as a guide not subjective morals


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Morally right.... that is indeed a good point.. is it morally right to cast your vote when you're not convinced that they lesser of two evils is deserving of your vote. (noticed I used your and you're in one sentence correctly - I did that for operator6)
> 
> I have no obligation to vote in order to make you happy. I have no legal obligation to vote. I have no religious* obligation to vote.
> 
> *Morals change every 5 years so I use holiness as a guide not subjective morals


Funny who doesn't agree with you: Exercising our Civil Right (?and Civic Responsibility) to VOTE! ? by President Terri Lee Freeman | National Civil Rights Museum


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Morally right.... that is indeed a good point.. is it morally right to cast your vote when you're not convinced that they lesser of two evils is deserving of your vote. (noticed I used your and you're in one sentence correctly - I did that for operator6)
> 
> I have no obligation to vote in order to make you happy. I have no legal obligation to vote. I have no religious* obligation to vote.
> 
> *Morals change every 5 years so I use holiness as a guide not subjective morals


It's your civic duty as a good Anerican to contribute to the election process. You don't get paid for it, is that the problem ?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> It's your civic duty as a good Anerican to contribute to the election process. You don't get paid for it, is that the problem ?


Who are these Anericans you are talking about?? and what makes them good??

should they be required to vote under penalty of law...???


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## pakrat (Nov 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Morals change every 5 years so I use holiness as a guide not subjective morals


Man, that's one high horse you're riding&#8230; you say it's a holy one too? Ain't that something?


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Who are these Anericans you are talking about?? and what makes them good??
> 
> should they be required to vote under penalty of law...???


That was a typo. I feel I needed to explain that.

No penalty of law, just part of being a good American doing his/her part. Freedoms not free you know.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Wow, you guys are still playing the word game with him?
It's literally all he has, and it's nothing.

Marine, quite frankly, I don't care who you vote for. Just vote.
Your voice is silent if you stay home. Only assumptions can be made about those that sit at home.
If you can't stand the top candidate, vote for whoever you please, but for Pete's sake, vote.
THEN your voice can be heard.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

pakrat said:


> Man, that's one high horse you're riding&#8230; you say it's a holy one too? Ain't that something?


Don't get your panties all in a bunch, on a lot of topics he can be quite lucid. Religion and politics? Well he is fun to listen to sometimes


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

A civic duty or responsibility? A right?

First, voting is not a right; it is a privilege. It's been that way since the creation of our form of government and that was reaffirmed by the USSC during the Gore/Bush sporting event.

If you think it is your civic duty to vote for evil, lesser or greater, you have problems that can't be fixed on a website.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

We are going to end up having the choice of a tired, old, establishment liberal or a egotistical, blowhard who has been a liberal all his life and is only spewing words the shallow want to hear because it is nothing but the art of the deal to him. Why? Because the soundbite public can't spell "constitution" or "liberty" any more than the two leading politicians can.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Denton said:


> We are going to end up having the choice of a tired, old, establishment liberal or a egotistical, blowhard who has been a liberal all his life and is only spewing words the shallow want to hear because it is nothing but the art of the deal to him. Why? Because the soundbite public can't spell "constitution" or "liberty" any more than the two leading politicians can.


Why not take a look at what Mr. Trump's platform before you slam him. think you'll find that it's more to the right than Cruz.

And just what the he double hockey sticks is wrong with being a liberal. One that has an open mind instead of one that just because things don't go the way they want them to they sit back like a three year old and say they're my toys and I"m taking them home with me.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

The voice of the youth in most instances deserves qualification, as their world view can easily be formed by self interests or misinformation. In this case, I have had the opportunity to watch the actions and listen to the words of Mr. Trump for decades. Therefore, I am able to qualify, in my humble opinion, the words of Mr. Shapiro as being worthy of your consideration.

You may very well find the path to "Making America Great Again" is paved with bribes, lies, deals, and entitlements to a new (or the old) elite. I fail to see how one can overlook the evidences of egotistical actions, love of money, and the pursuit of power that drive Mr. Trump. I simply ask you to watch his actions and not only listen to his words.

I hope and pray I am the one who is mistaken this time. If so, I will be the first one to own up to it. However, likely I will be left with a sense of the loss of values this Great Country once stood for, as I watch Mr. Trump continue his pursuit of "winning".


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> The voice of the youth in most instances deserves qualification, as their world view can easily be formed by self interests or misinformation. In this case, I have had the opportunity to watch the actions and listen to the words of Mr. Trump for decades. Therefore, I am able to qualify, in my humble opinion, the words of Mr. Shapiro as being worthy of your consideration.
> 
> You may very well find the path to "Making America Great Again" is paved with bribes, lies, deals, and entitlements to a new (or the old) elite. I fail to see how one can overlook the evidences of egotistical actions, love of money, and the pursuit of power that drive Mr. Trump. I simply ask you to watch his actions and not only listen to his words.
> 
> I hope and pray I am the one who is mistaken this time. If so, I will be the first one to own up to it. However, likely I will be left with a sense of the loss of values this Great Country once stood for, as I watch Mr. Trump continue his pursuit of "winning".


I do somewhat agree with you, I would prefer Cruz to rise to the top , but if that doesn't happen then we have to seriously way the alternatives, it amazes me that with the population of the USA that what is being presented is all there is, I believe there are many good people out there but chose not to be subject to the character assassination that takes place rather than what they can offer.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

pakrat said:


> Man, that's one high horse you're riding&#8230; you say it's a holy one too? Ain't that something?


My point here, and I would guess you already understand it, is that morals change every 10-20 years... ie Abortion, Marijuana, gay marriage... while what is good and bad is a constant/unchanging via the Bible/God

if you consider a person that uses the Bible and not Sports illustrated as a guide as being on a high horse..so be it


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Wow, you guys are still playing the word game with him?
> It's literally all he has, and it's nothing.
> 
> Marine, quite frankly, I don't care who you vote for. Just vote.
> ...


This guy must not understand that freedom isn't free. There are things you should do that you don't get paid for or not required by law that you should do to be a good American. Voting is one of them.

Some people just don't understand what being a patriot is.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> Funny who doesn't agree with you: Exercising our Civil Right (?and Civic Responsibility) to VOTE! ? by President Terri Lee Freeman | National Civil Rights Museum


Her agreeing or disagreeing with what a duty versus a responsibility is - does not mean that what a duty or a responsibility is is wrong...

(noticed how I used is twice... sort of reminds a person of Clinton huh...






I reject the NEW meaning of the term. (you can choose to accept whatever you want). I will cling to my Guns, Ammo, Bible, and definition of Civic duty -I will also hold onto my years worth of wheat, 200 lbs of sugar, 300 cans of veggies, and all my canned meat and sauces


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Denton said:


> A civic duty or responsibility? A right?
> 
> First, voting is not a right; it is a privilege. It's been that way since the creation of our form of government and that was reaffirmed by the USSC during the Gore/Bush sporting event.
> 
> If you think it is your civic duty to vote for evil, lesser or greater, you have problems that can't be fixed on a website.


The discussion of whether voting is a right or a privilege is not new.
Voting used to be allowed only to those who owned land.
That was argued to be unfair.
Voting used to be allowed only to those who were men.
That was argued to be unfair.
Voting used to be allowed only to those who were white.
That was argued to be unfair.
Voting is now allowed to any and all citizens who have reached legal age. (the currently incarcerated are exempted)
The ability to vote can no longer be limited based on gender, race, wealth, creed, religion, or any other form of discrimination.
Thus, since voting cannot be restricted or limited by anything but age, and all previous attempts to limit it have been ruled unconstitutional, it could easily be claimed that voting(choosing those which will lead you) is a human right. If you'll recall, a right need not be explicitly defined in the constitution to still exist. It also doesn't need the approval of 5 people in black robes to exist.
That's my position anyway. I'd be interested to read anything you can provide about the SCOTUS ruling. Do you have a link? My searching has only lead to a 2013 decision allowing states to set voter laws without federal approval.

As for voting for evil, you have always done that to some degree.
The person may not be violent, or intentionally malicious, but rest assured they are not a saint.
It seems this topic is not confined to our little niche of the net.
I stumbled across this article, written only yesterday, about this exact topic: Should Christians Vote for the Lesser of Two Evils?
It echos my sentiment about this issue. It starts off early with my idea above, "...unless Jesus of Nazareth is on the ballot, any election forces us to choose the lesser of evils."
In the end, the conclusion is to vote for the person you feel is right. It does not, however, mention abstaining from voting altogether. This option only silences your opinion. It doesn't promote anything.
You don't have to vote for the majority candidate, but your vote should still be cast.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> This guy must not understand that freedom isn't free. There are things you should do that you don't get paid for or not required by law that you should do to be a good American. Voting is one of them.
> 
> Some people just don't understand what being a patriot is.


Oh, he understands it well enough, and he'll be the first to offer up the fact that he served as some justification for his choice.
He just likes to sit on the edge of an issue like this, and see what he can stir up.
He's playing the word game with you as a way to deflect the real debate. If he can keep you running circles trying to defend verbiage then he doesn't have to respond to the root of the matter.
Jumping on typos is another tactic of diversion.
No, he is not a bad American if he doesn't vote. No, I don't believe compulsion is a solution.
Yes, I do believe ALL Americans should vote, regardless of their beliefs. Just look at the number of people who say they voted for Obama, and now regret ever casting that vote.
Sometimes, ignorance leads to revelation. Get people involved, and they start paying closer attention.
Wanting to keep the voting population small, and composed of only those "well educated" to handle such issues, leads to ethical and moral corruption by those who think they know better than everyone else how to lead the masses.

While I would urge him to, he doesn't have to vote for any major candidate. I just expect him to vote, for ANYBODY, or his position is meaningless.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Oh, he understands it well enough, and he'll be the first to offer up the fact that he served as some justification for his choice.
> He just likes to sit on the edge of an issue like this, and see what he can stir up.
> He's playing the word game with you as a way to deflect the real debate. If he can keep you running circles trying to defend verbiage then he doesn't have to respond to the root of the matter.
> Jumping on typos is another tactic of diversion.
> ...


OH yeah you can read the title of the thread and automatically know this was a troll thread. This one just doesn't do it for me. I'd rather a .22 is the ultimate survival round thread......now those are good.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> As for voting for evil, you have always done that to some degree.
> The person may not be violent, or intentionally malicious, but rest assured they are not a saint.
> It seems this topic is not confined to our little niche of the net.
> I stumbled across this article, written only yesterday, about this exact topic: Should Christians Vote for the Lesser of Two Evils?


I read the article. and frankly the writer needs some more education

They said _"For starters, unless Jesus of Nazareth is on the ballot, any election forces us to choose the lesser of evils." _
I disagree - there is a difference in voting for a person that proclaims Jesus and still sins and voting for a person that proclaims to being a Christian yet says they have no need of forgiveness,

David sinned yet he was a man after God's heart.

Now here is the interesting part they say " _If a Christian doctor were forced to choose between performing abortions or assisting suicides, she could not choose the lesser of these two evils but must conscientiously object."_

So the writer says that it is ok to object to making a choice in one case but at the same time say it is ok to vote for an evil person because it is better to have a little evil and a lot of evil.

I REJECT THE PREMISE....

Given the choice of deciding between the lesser of two evil .. you have two choices 1. select the lesser evil 2. remain silent

#1 means you have cast your vote with evil...

Some people may want to fool themselves and think Trump is a Christian but in my book (pun intended) he is not. Remember the good book says.. we shall know them by their fruit

The Scriptures teach that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks (Luke 6:45), and so Trump's consistent pattern of reckless speech points to deeper issues which could make him unfit for the office of the presidency.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> This guy must not understand that freedom isn't free. There are things you should do that you don't get paid for or not required by law that you should do to be a good American. Voting is one of them.
> 
> Some people just don't understand what being a patriot is.


Can you please list for me the items i need to do to be a GOOD American... Really, I want to make sure I am being a good american.

And do I need to vote in every election?

What if I have voted in every presidential election since 1980 but decide not to vote this time.... Does that make me unpatriotic and not a good american???

I have never been called to jury duty... am I only 95% a good American

Frankly I find the use of "unpatriotic" or the term good "American" as silly... Of course you have not called me a racist yet so I have that going for me

Unpatriotic

Obama calls bush unpatriotic





Pat Sajak Says Global Warming Alarmists Are Unpatriotic Racists





Greg Gutfeld: Liberals Unpatriotic, Hate America





MSNBC's Ed Rendell says Ted Cruz is Unpatriotic, and a Jerk 





I do agree with you when you say "Some people just don't understand what being a patriot is." I think the finger is pointing back at you


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Given the choice of deciding between the lesser of two evil .. you have two choices 1. select the lesser evil 2. remain silent


If these are your only options, and we agree that all men are sinners, and you claim to be a morally sound person, then we can only conclude that you've never voted.
I don't wish to offend your sensibilities, so I'll refrain from including the noun for one who states falsehoods.

I REJECT YOUR REJECTION...

(As an aside, I went back and re-read all 11 pages, and you're not one that should be nitpicking others' grammar and spelling, sir.)


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Also, what happened with that "insult them and stop talking to them" strategy. I was all on board for that one!


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Can you please list for me the items i need to do to be a GOOD American... Really, I want to make sure I am being a good american.
> 
> And do I need to vote in every election?
> 
> ...


Certainly not voting isn't being a good American. I'm not going to list out what things you can do to be a good American but I will state that voting would be a good start.

My objective isn't to educate you but only to show others the flaws in your position. I have succeeded.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

*I REJECT THE PREMISE....

Given the choice of deciding between the lesser of two evil .. you have two choices 1. select the lesser evil 2. remain silent*

Funny for a gent that supposedly prepares for eventualities you haven't listed all of the options you have available. How about voting - even if it's only a write in - for a candidate you can support?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> How about voting - even if it's only a write in - for a candidate you can support?


I'm fairly certain that would still be voting for the least evil, and he won't do that either.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I can kinda see where he's coming from. Vote for a socialist or vote for a dictator. Nope, I won't do it. I'll just write in a name.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Person #1: "I hate what the president is trying to do"
Person #2: "before I respond, may I ask if you voted in the last presidential election?"
Person #1: "as a matter of fact, no, I didn't. "
Person #2: "then, you really don't have a right to complain, do you?"
Sorry, but thats how I feel about it, you don't have to vote, but if you don't, don't bitch about what the next president does, (4years is a long time).


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> I'm fairly certain that would still be voting for the least evil, and he won't do that either.


Crap let him put Christ on the ballot. Hell how about the his last Master Gunny?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> How about voting - even if it's only a write in - for a candidate you can support?


i think I can compromise and do that....

Thanks for the suggestion..

although it will be like spiting in the ocean, at least I will fulfill my Civic responsibility... Now who will I write in


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Moonshinedave said:


> Person #1: "I hate what the president is trying to do"
> Person #2: "before I respond, may I ask if you voted in the last presidential election?"
> Person #1: "as a matter of fact, no, I didn't. "
> Person #2: "then, you really don't have a right to complain, do you?"
> Sorry, but thats how* I feel about it*, you don't have to vote, but if you don't, don't bitch about what the next president does, (4years is a long time).


Person #1: "I hate what the president is trying to do"
Person #2: "before I respond, may I ask if you voted in the last presidential election?"
Person #1: "as a matter of fact, no, I didn't. "
Person #2: "then, you really don't have a right to complain, do you?"
Person #1:" Did I lose my freedom of speech by not voting?"
Person #2 "No but you did not vote so you should not complain?"
Person #1 "So if the person that got elect was the person I voted for I should also not complain?"

and frankly - feelings are hard to debate....


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> I can kinda see where he's coming from. Vote for a socialist or vote for a dictator. Nope, I won't do it. I'll just write in a name.


Did I miss a candidate? Who's running as a dictator? I might need to polish my shiny shoes.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Person #1: "I hate what the president is trying to do"
> Person #2: "before I respond, may I ask if you voted in the last presidential election?"
> Person #1: "as a matter of fact, no, I didn't. "
> Person #2: "then, you really don't have a right to complain, do you?"
> ...


Of course you have freedom of speech, you also have the right to vote (or not vote), you also have the right to bear arms............for now.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Person #1 "So if the person that got elect was the person I voted for I should also not complain?"


Now you're creating a fictional argument.
You know that isn't the same thing, but want him to defend it.

If you were given the option to act, and chose not to, respect those that did act enough to not patronize their choice.
If you were given the option to act, and did so, you have every reason to continue voicing your opinion about that action.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Now you're creating a fictional argument.
> You know that isn't the same thing, but want him to defend it.
> 
> If you were given the option to act, and chose not to, respect those that did act enough to not patronize their choice.
> If you were given the option to act, and did so, you have every reason to continue voicing your opinion about that action.


Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"; pl.: reductiones ad absurdum), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial, or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"; pl.: reductiones ad absurdum), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial, or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.


Exactly, not voting is absurd. If that's the intent of this thread then I applaud you at a job well done.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"; pl.: reductiones ad absurdum), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial, or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.


Yes, that is a common form of argument, and you failed at presenting such.
You did not take his premise to absurdity. You introduced an entirely different concept, and attempted to pass it off as equal. It is not.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

I did not serve my country for people to have the right to vote I served so they can have the FREEDOM to vote.
it is freedom is not free -maine served , he earned the freedom to choose and if you don't like it then make like bubble gum and blow.


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## GrumpyBiker (Nov 25, 2015)

There's the option of perspective that says if you can't vote _For_ someone, vote _Against_ someone.

It's the route I'm taking as I don't see a candidate that I think rates the position.

My $.02


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You seldom get everything you want. Often you must settle. As I progressed in rank I had a list. They things I would not put up with if I was(insert position ). As A PLT SGt I learned I did not get to set the training schedule. I had input but not the final call. You see there was always a bigger picture and Time and other resource were limited. I had to work with in the system to at least get what I could. That meant compromising even when it really pissed me off. But I would fix that if I was 1SG. Well that did not go as planned either. I could have stomped my feet and walked away at any time but what would that have gained. At least by being a part of it I had some say. And I did not roll over as easy as the one before.
Voting is like that. No one will support every thing that does what I want, put more money in my pocket and protect my special interest.
Obama has put more money in my pocket than I ever expected. How he did it was wrong so I still wanted him gone. Cruz will hurt my pocket book a bit down the road but I support him because he is right. He may well help yours. Some times in life we are forced to pick the lesser of two evils . Some times we have to go with a plan that does not give us everything we want. Line by line Cruz is my first choice.


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## davgonz90 (Mar 6, 2016)

I thought the same thing. But why waste a vote? At least choose the lesser of two evils.


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## screwedby (Oct 21, 2015)

The only thing that scares me worse than all these crooked politicians is uneducated voters that think they are educated.

Hear that whistling sound...getting louder?

That is our country going down the drain.


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

Here is why it is intensely important that you vote....Because THEY will!!!!!!


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