# Lack of Training and Preparation is Deadly. Divers Dead.



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I've never dived the Eagle's Nest, but the rules still apply. It doesn't take training to go into a cave, but it takes training to get out when things go wrong, and it takes training to keep things from going wrong.

Regardless of what the investigation finds, neither father or son was a certified cave diver and the team should never have entered the cave. Clearly, such a dive is not the place to use brand new gear, even if one is certified.

I blame the father. I won't even let someone in a pool using my gear, much less take a non-certified diver into a cave.

As all of us here understands, training and familiarization of gear is key to survival. These people paid for lack of both, and their friends and family will continue to pay.

Father, son found dead in underwater cave - FOX 13 News


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

I was a PADI certified dive instructor in San Diego for many years (many years ago) and I agree that this could have been avoided with proper training.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> I was a PADI certified dive instructor in San Diego for many years (many years ago) and I agree that this could have been avoided with proper training.


Do you still get wet?


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## jesstheshow (Nov 18, 2013)

As a prepper, I am all about preparing, testing the gear before taking on such a feat. I have only went diving in the ocean with an instructor, but I am an avid backpacker and I will take days long trips in the middle of nowhere with the gear on my back. I need to know the gear will work before depending solely on it. I need to know that I am prepared for anything before I go. Also, I would never take my kid to do something so dangerous if I was not in complete control. 

Its sad that this happened.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Denton said:


> Do you still get wet?


No I'm living in New Mexico, the most unwet state! That was the name of the dive shop I worked out of in San Diego, "Get Wet."


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I was a diver on oil rigs for several years and have done many cave dives as well. I have dove nitrox,heliox and trimix as a tech diver before as well. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's, I was one of the divers they called in the Gainesville,area for search and rescue. What I tell people is that is was ALWAYS a body recovery!! Never rescue. Once something happens ina cave and by the time someone realizes it and then a rescue diver gets the call out. It is just too late!

Personally, I think a diver should have over 500 dives before they can get certified as a cave diver. Although I feel terrible for these guys and their families. They had absolutely no business going into a cave system. Especially the one with out the certification. I had over 1000 logged dives when I went into a cave for the first time and I can tell you that all it takes is a split second for the silt to get stirred up and you have zero viz.. Some if not most of the walls are "soft" and as you go, your safety ropes can actually get pulled "into" a corner. Then when you go back and are feeling your way because you can't see shit. If feels like the wall is the endo of the line because your ropes have got wedged into the corner.. If that makes sense to you guys.

On a side note, I don't know if any of you guys remember Valujet flight 592. When it crashed in the Everglades in 1996, I was one of the guys that got the callout for that one.. It was hot as hell and we had to wear drysuits. There was jet fuel everywhere. They had guards on airboats watching for gators and we could only stay int he water for 20-30 minutes at a time.. That was a crazy one.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I remember diving for a company in South Florida and I would have to inspect the inside of pipes every now and then. Some of them would get so tight, I would have to take my gear off and drag it behind me.. I have never really liked tight spaces either.. I don't do that shit no more..lol Now I work in the WIDE open spaces!!!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> No I'm living in New Mexico, the most unwet state! That was the name of the dive shop I worked out of in San Diego, "Get Wet."


As they say, if you're ever in the neighborhood...

I prefer the Gulf for diving, but haven't been in it since the BP tragedy.

Son and I got into the cavern/cave thing a few years ago. Our favorite spot is Jackson Blue, at Marianna, Florida. Along with Jackson Blue, there are other caves to be explored at the pond. Even with the extra training and gear costs, we have found it to be well worth it.

Cave Adventurers | Located on Merritt's Mill Pond, Marianna, FL


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

PrepConsultant said:


> I was a diver on oil rigs for several years and have done many cave dives as well. I have dove nitrox,heliox and trimix as a tech diver before as well. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's, I was one of the divers they called in the Gainesville,area for search and rescue. What I tell people is that is was ALWAYS a body recovery!! Never rescue. Once something happens ina cave and by the time someone realizes it and then a rescue diver gets the call out. It is just too late!
> 
> Personally, I think a diver should have over 500 dives before they can get certified as a cave diver. Although I feel terrible for these guys and their families. They had absolutely no business going into a cave system. Especially the one with out the certification. I had over 1000 logged dives when I went into a cave for the first time and I can tell you that all it takes is a split second for the silt to get stirred up and you have zero viz.. Some if not most of the walls are "soft" and as you go, your safety ropes can actually get pulled "into" a corner. Then when you go back and are feeling your way because you can't see shit. If feels like the wall is the endo of the line because your ropes have got wedged into the corner.. If that makes sense to you guys.
> 
> On a side note, I don't know if any of you guys remember Valujet flight 592. When it crashed in the Everglades in 1996, I was one of the guys that got the callout for that one.. It was hot as hell and we had to wear drysuits. There was jet fuel everywhere. They had guards on airboats watching for gators and we could only stay int he water for 20-30 minutes at a time.. That was a crazy one.


Wow loads of experience! I do remember flight 592. Was it true that many of the victims were never recovered because most of the jet was so deep into the mud?


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Denton said:


> As they say, if you're ever in the neighborhood...
> 
> I prefer the Gulf for diving, but haven't been in it since the BP tragedy.
> 
> ...


I haven't dove in so long but I'm always up for a beer. We are heading to Pensacola, FL tonight. What part of Florida are you in?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

PrepConsultant said:


> I remember diving for a company in South Florida and I would have to inspect the inside of pipes every now and then. Some of them would get so tight, I would have to take my gear off and drag it behind me.. I have never really liked tight spaces either.. I don't do that shit no more..lol Now I work in the WIDE open spaces!!!


Rescue/Recovery diving isn't something I would want to do; cudos to you for manning up to the task.

My cave instructor had to do a recover dive on a dive excursion of his own at Jackson Blue. A silt-up caused one of the three to take the gold line in the wrong direction, and the diver ran out of gas. My instructor had to get fresh bottles and retrieve him. I can't imagine having to bring the lifeless body of another diver back to the surface. Even worse, having to retrieve bodies from the glades after a plane crash.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> I haven't dove in so long but I'm always up for a beer. We are heading to Pensacola, FL tonight. What part of Florida are you in?


About three hours from Pensacola, in Southeast Alabama.

Sending PM...


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> Wow loads of experience! I do remember flight 592. Was it true that many of the victims were never recovered because most of the jet was so deep into the mud?


At first they thought that part of the fuselage was intact under the mud but they determined that it just busted apart on impact. It is true that all of the bodies were not recovered. There were many different reasons though. Some they say the gators got to and then some wer ejust so deep into the muck that you just couldn't find them. I still remember the taste of it.. Jet fuel,muck and death.. I hope I never have to do something like that again..


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Plane crashes are horrible. I still remember the PSA jet 182 that crashed into the neighborhood in San Diego like it was yesterday.


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