# Foods I'll never store long term vs. foods I'll always store



## Annie

Long term being more than one year's worth. 

I will never do again: flour, nuts, dehydrated butter and eggs, dehydrated milk, most condiments, pancake mix. Evap milk. They go badly too quickly.

Things I'll always store: sprout seeds, bottled and canned meats, fish, bottled and canned veggies and fruits, honey, soy sauce, rice, pasta, canned soups, chili, corned beef hash..Anything from LDS Cannery is great. Salt, sugar.

How about you guys?


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## The Tourist

Annie said:


> How about you guys?


I'm glad you started this thread. This is a topic where I am clueless.

We just laid in a modest amount of sardines in oil, simply because I like to eat them--reminds me of the day when men were men and sheep were nervous, but I digress.

They come packaged in air tight metal trays or canisters, further encased in cardboard sleeves. We store them out of the light in areas akin to the temperature and dryness of your average bedroom. However, all of this is at the behest of theories I have heard, not logic and study.

What should I be doing?


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## Illini Warrior

almost everything you mention has 5 years shelf life without any special packing - You can't keep a box of pancake mix on the shelf for a year without going bad?


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## Annie

Illini Warrior said:


> almost everything you mention has 5 years shelf life without any special packing - You can't keep a box of pancake mix on the shelf for a year without going bad?


Eh, I dunno...

More than 18 months, no. I have three of those 10 lb big boy sacks from Costco on the shelf and I'm thinking it was a bad move. Unless SHTF happens tomorrow, I overbought. We'd go through it pdq in an emergency, because it's a fast easy meal. But In business as usual normal times (like now) people here prefer other things, and I'm happy they do because pancakes are lacking in nutrition.

ETA: oils go rancid, so do nuts before 5 years time. Ask me how I know.


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## The Tourist

Would the packaging itself be a determinate factor? If the pancake mix was simply stored in its original cardboard box, would it be better to find an airtight container of steel or some form or poly resin?


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> I'm glad you started this thread. This is a topic where I am clueless.
> 
> We just laid in a modest amount of sardines in oil, simply because I like to eat them--reminds me of the day when men were men and sheep were nervous, but I digress.
> 
> They come packaged in air tight metal trays or canisters, further encased in cardboard sleeves. We store them out of the light in areas akin to the temperature and dryness of your average bedroom. However, all of this is at the behest of theories I have heard, not logic and study.
> 
> What should I be doing?


Sardines are an excellent choice. They've go omega three fatty oils. Canned salmon is good. Don't get the farm raised stuff. All kinds of sprouting seeds keep well, grown on your windowsill year round and you can't beat the nutrition. If you can, keep olive oil and coconut oils in the fridge or freezer.


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> Would the packaging itself be a determinate factor? If the pancake mix was simply stored in its original cardboard box, would it be better to find an airtight container of steel or some form or poly resin?


For sure in a vacuum sealed glass jar and/or mylar--both with oxy absorbers are best. I just haven't gotten around to that with the pancake mix. My bad. Well, actually I still have some pancake mix in glass jars from when I started my preps. I should check that out and see.


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## Prepared One

I limit most of my long term storage to dry goods ( Beans, pastas, rice, mashed taters, etc. ) and freeze dried. Although I do maintain some flour, powdered eggs, and milk. I have a lot of caned meats and vegetables, soups, and such that I rotate on a fairly regular basis. I don't store much alcohol, the stuff evaporates to fast. :tango_face_wink: I estimate that as of now, if I really regulate my intake, the wife and I can go at least a year, maybe more. 

As I look around the current landscape of current events I have stepped up my storage here lately. I don't like what I am seeing and I have a bad feeling. So, as a matter of fact, I will be getting two more buckets of rice and beans put away this weekend.


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## The Tourist

Prepared One said:


> I don't like what I am seeing and I have a bad feeling. So, as a matter of fact, I will be getting two more buckets of rice and beans put away this weekend.


I admire your resolve to buy the rice and beans, I'll suggest that to the real power behind the throne at my house.

As for fear, I find it a detriment. It makes me shake while I'm looking over the sights. Remember, it is not Valdez who is coming, but a little 29 year old Hispanic girl who can't get through a simple question and answer period without misquoting the Constitution...


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## Annie

Actually, I take back the oils. Even if I can't cook with them, I can still use them for oil lamps. Crisco is good that way. Long lasting for an edible oil, it's terrible for you, but I guess that's why it has a longer shelf life. All that hydrogenated "goodness". If it's rancid, canned foods with oil, same thing. Poke a hole in the top, stick a string it there and use it as a candle.


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## Slippy

We've had OK success with instant non-fat milk from Augason Farms. 20 year shelf life and we used some that was around 8 years old and it was fine.

Dehydrated butter is good for about 10 years and I've yet to try some but we are getting close to the 10 year window with a few cans. I'll give a review when I crack into one.

But I agree that nuts, flour and pancake mix are difficult to store long term. I have read about Canning Butter and we may do a trial to see if it works.

Good thread to remind us to check our food stores regularly for dates! Thanks @Annie


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## Annie

Slippy said:


> We've had OK success with instant non-fat milk from Augason Farms. 20 year shelf life and we used some that was around 8 years old and it was fine.
> 
> Dehydrated butter is good for about 10 years and I've yet to try some but we are getting close to the 10 year window with a few cans. I'll give a review when I crack into one.
> 
> But I agree that nuts, flour and pancake mix are difficult to store long term. I have read about Canning Butter and we may do a trial to see if it works.
> 
> Good thread to remind us to check our food stores regularly for dates! Thanks @Annie


Yeah, you could be right about the dehydrated butter...I've actually got that in the fridge--2 years out of date. Tasted a little bit on my finger tip it was okay.


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## Ragnarök

Annie said:


> Long term being more than one year's worth.
> 
> I will never do again: flour, nuts, dehydrated butter and eggs, dehydrated milk, most condiments, pancake mix. Evap milk. They go badly too quickly.
> 
> Things I'll always store: sprout seeds, bottled and canned meats, fish, bottled and canned veggies and fruits, honey, soy sauce, rice, pasta, canned soups, chili, corned beef hash..Anything from LDS Cannery is great. Salt, sugar.
> 
> How about you guys?


Did you store whole in shell nuts? That extends their lifespan considerably.

I decided to add dehydrated chicken #10 cans from mountain house to my emergency storage. They have a 28 year best by date. Added to beans, rice and spices it makes a nice meal.

When you store perishables it needs to be in rotation of what you eat daily. I choose to stock dried fruit more than canned fruit with exceptions. Dried mango is one of my favorites.


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## Ragnarök

Annie said:


> Eh, I dunno...
> 
> More than 18 months, no. I have three of those 10 lb big boy sacks from Costco on the shelf and I'm thinking it was a bad move. Unless SHTF happens tomorrow, I overbought. We'd go through it pdq in an emergency, because it's a fast easy meal. But In business as usual normal times (like now) people here prefer other things, and I'm happy they do because pancakes are lacking in nutrition.
> 
> ETA: oils go rancid, so do nuts before 5 years time. Ask me how I know.


Use the mix for other things... like coating stuff and frying it.. home made corn dogs. Make waffles with the mix and fry up some chicken.


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## Annie

Ragnarök said:


> Did you store whole in shell nuts? That extends their lifespan considerably.
> 
> I decided to add dehydrated chicken #10 cans from mountain house to my emergency storage. They have a 28 year best by date. Added to beans, rice and spices it makes a nice meal.
> 
> When you store perishables it needs to be in rotation of what you eat daily. I choose to stock dried fruit more than canned fruit with exceptions. Dried mango is one of my favorites.


Yeah, I store nuts and generally I do rotate those. I did have a quart jar or two of sunflower seeds slip under the radar and go bad on me.


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## The Tourist

Ya' know, not all of our members have a Costco a block away or one of my shiftless cousins on speed-dial. Yes, even the silk suit boys deliver.

I have been reading some of the "prepper magazines" in spite of myself. While the information may be questionable, the overall idea is valid.

What if you're off to buy the latest designer solar panel, and while you and the Hummer were cruising about town, The 17th French Gay Mutant Pelosi-Schumer Fusiliers blot out the sky over your home with politically correct rocket fire. Most of your best survival toys are lost in the stench of the Congress woman's Ben-Gay.

Sure you have a pristine assortment of the latest from Radio Shack in the Hummer, but nothing snaps into the debris of your home. A conundrum.

Some members might not even know what a "Costco" really is. I was shocked to find out it's really a lovable gorilla at the Lincoln Park Zoo!

Do these members have an option to complete the idea of the thread?


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## Maine-Marine

I tossed out a bunch of pancake mix I put into mylar.. it swelled up and smelled bad when opened... better to store flour/wheat and the things to make pancakes

I use to store pasta but now plan on making it myself... flour and eggs=spaghetti 

we have lots of powdered non fat milk

sugar

dried beans

oatmeal

lots of things will keep for 20+ years wheat, sugar, oatmeal, rice,


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## stowlin

Darn now I feel like I need to check some things I thought would out live me. 

BTW don’t rush to the garbage with spoils until you have replacements. They can still be used for thieves and such.


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## The Tourist

Annie said:


> Poke a hole in the top, stick a string it there and use it as a candle.


Oy, vey, girl! A candle is like a beacon to the marauders of Bartertown! No, no, you sleep during the day and forage and kill at night!

To this day I'm surprised I don't have a half-built MFP Interceptor in my garage...


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> Oy, vey, girl! A candle is like a beacon to the marauders of Bartertown! No, no, you sleep during the day and forage and kill at night!
> 
> To this day I'm surprised I don't have a half-built MFP Interceptor in my garage...


I gots me some blackout curtains.


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## AquaHull

Annie said:


> Actually, I take back the oils. Even if I can't cook with them, I can still use them for oil lamps. Crisco is good that way. Long lasting for an edible oil, it's terrible for you, but I guess that's why it has a longer shelf life. All that hydrogenated "goodness". If it's rancid, canned foods with oil, same thing. Poke a hole in the top, stick a string it there and use it as a candle.


Crisco works well to make suet cakes for the birds also.


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## AquaHull

Maine-Marine said:


> I tossed out a bunch of pancake mix I put into mylar.. it swelled up and smelled bad when opened... better to store flour/wheat and the things to make pancakes
> 
> I use to store pasta but now plan on making it myself... flour and eggs=spaghetti
> 
> we have lots of powdered non fat milk
> 
> sugar
> 
> dried beans
> 
> oatmeal
> 
> lots of things will keep for 20+ years wheat, sugar, oatmeal, rice,


I quit oatmeal because it raised my sugar to 200.

Now I'm workin hard 58 hours , doing a young man's job, sugar is at 89 or under without meds.Whatever I eat.


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## Inor

We stock what we eat now. Mrs Inor does a LOT of baking, cookies cakes etc., so we do stock flour, sugar and salt. Like @Maine-Marine, we no longer stock pasta; homemade tastes better, is better for you and does not take up nearly as much space. We also stock a lot of Mrs Inor's canned stuff. A couple weeks ago we stumbled upon a jar of Mrs Inor's apple sauce that she made and canned 8 years ago. We opened it, smelled it; it smelled fine. So we ate it and it tasted as good as the day she made it with no side effects.

The last thing I want to do is change my diet significantly in a very high stress situation. Neither extreme diarrhea nor extreme constipation appeal to me.


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## The Tourist

Inor said:


> The last thing I want to do is change my diet significantly in a very high stress situation.


I'm glad you brought this up, I had never really mingled the idea of my pathology with prepping, but you raise a valid point. For me it's anxiety and hypochondria. Should we start a new thread and open the topic for the forum? You broke the ice, what are your feelings?


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## Annie

Inor said:


> The last thing I want to do is change my diet significantly in a very high stress situation. Neither extreme diarrhea nor extreme constipation appeal to me.


Wish I could do that, but the really healthy foods don't often store well. So my idea is to eat as healthy as possible now. Create and maintain health which for me means fresh vegetables, good supplements, healthy fats, meat. Low carbs. Then when SHTF, somethings better than nothing. In a perfect world...things would be perfect ya know? I gotta work with what I've got.


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## The Tourist

Annie, my diet is mostly unbreaded fish (salmon and cod) with dark green vegetables. Why wouldn't just deep freezing items like this preserve them?


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## Yavanna

Sugar. 
Sugar goes goopy after a while, about a year or so. I hear a lot of talk about sugar being a very long term item, but it does not seem to work around these parts. 
Perhaps in cold climates it does preserve better, but here it just goes bad.


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## AquaHull

Sugar keeps well in MeatChicken


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> Annie, my diet is mostly unbreaded fish (salmon and cod) with dark green vegetables. Why wouldn't just deep freezing items like this preserve them?


It does preserve them, until the power goes out. I don't count freezer food as SHTF food storage. The stuff in my freezer usually gets rotated out after three months.


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## Annie

Yavanna said:


> Sugar.
> Sugar goes goopy after a while, about a year or so. I hear a lot of talk about sugar being a very long term item, but it does not seem to work around these parts.
> Perhaps in cold climates it does preserve better, but here it just goes bad.


Wow, I've never heard of that. My sugar is 4 years old. How are you storing it? Sounds like moisture is getting into the packaging somehow.


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## StratMaster

Annie said:


> Wow, I've never heard of that. My sugar is 4 years old. How are you storing it? Sounds like moisture is getting into the packaging somehow.


Me either. I have sugar from 2009 in a mylar/bucket and it's just fine.


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## Inor

The Tourist said:


> I'm glad you brought this up, I had never really mingled the idea of my pathology with prepping, but you raise a valid point. For me it's anxiety and hypochondria. Should we start a new thread and open the topic for the forum? You broke the ice, what are your feelings?


Start a thread on it if you like. It seems like a reasonable topic to me also. But, from my perspective it is pretty cut and dried. Radical changes in diet affects my digestion badly. Extreme stress affects my digestion badly. The two together would be catastrophic, so I plan to minimize the issue as much as I can. I do not know what else to say about the topic but I would love to hear what you and others think.


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## Illini Warrior

Yavanna said:


> Sugar.
> Sugar goes goopy after a while, about a year or so. I hear a lot of talk about sugar being a very long term item, but it does not seem to work around these parts.
> Perhaps in cold climates it does preserve better, but here it just goes bad.


sugar isn't going bad - just changing from granular to near slurry - you need to container it better and get some desiccant in there to keep the moisture/humidity down ....


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## stevekozak

Annie said:


> Wish I could do that, but the really healthy foods don't often store well. So my idea is to eat as healthy as possible now. Create and maintain health which for me means fresh vegetables, good supplements, healthy fats, meat. Low carbs. Then when SHTF, somethings better than nothing. In a perfect world...things would be perfect ya know? I gotta work with what I've got.


This is more or less my philosophy on prepping: Prepare as well as I can now, and do what I gotta do when SHTF.


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## The Tourist

Annie said:


> Wow, I've never heard of that. My sugar is 4 years old. How are you storing it? Sounds like moisture is getting into the packaging somehow.


I wonder if the "sugar" processed in the States is the same product as in Brazil? For example, near my home in the 'burbs of Milwaukee, there are lots of maple trees and you can get syrup on any corner vegetable stand. And they sell sugary items, like little brown sugar figurines. I cannot remember ever seeing one in white sugar.


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## whoppo

We don't store any flour, even for short term... rather we keep a variety of wheat berries in stock and mill it fresh as we go. Seems to work just fine and properly stored, wheat berries can last a very long time.


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## The Tourist

Annie, to my knowledge, we have never discussed the "manly man" part of gardening. That is, after my wife--or any wife--has a chosen the right section based on daylight, the water table and shade, what does the clueless husband do?

Do I do what my dad did, that is roto-till the section into butchered loam? Do I carefully overturn the section and add the darkest topsoil I can find? Or do I just get a little hand plow and make ditches where she wants them?

In other words, how can my sweat equity get the place to a point that gives her the best option for any item she wishes?


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> Annie, to my knowledge, we have never discussed the "manly man" part of gardening. That is, after my wife--or any wife--has a chosen the right section based on daylight, the water table and shade, what does the clueless husband do?
> 
> Do I do what my dad did, that is roto-till the section into butchered loam? Do I carefully overturn the section and add the darkest topsoil I can find? Or do I just get a little hand plow and make ditches where she wants them?
> 
> In other words, how can my sweat equity get the place to a point that gives her the best option for any item she wishes?


We like raised beds here. Fill it in with really good soil and it's less work. I also keep so things (herbs, garlic) in pots.


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## Mad Trapper

I store my sugar in qt canning jars, 4 lbs fits in about two quarts. Stays granular and never hardens or gets mushy. Take out a pt at a time into a pint canning jar for use. If you have a lot to store, 1/2 gal canning jars.

No problems with ants or mice either.

My maple syrup I also put in ball/mason jars, but water bath can , kept out of heat/light lasts many years.

Home canned sauces/veggies/fruits are also fine after > 10 years. Stored in cool dark cellar. I opened some peaches canned in a cinnamon syrup they had not discolored (treated with lemon juice prior to canning) and tasted great on some vanilla ice cream. So are my tomato sauces/salsa, some good years I've put up 10-15 gallons.

I have a stash of dehydrated hen of the woods mushrooms, some from 2008, also stored in canning jars, they are fine. Dry until crisp, fill jar, heat in oven on low until warm/hot, crank down cap, lids will seal; If not really dry this will not work.















whoops double vision!


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## The Tourist

Annie said:


> We like raised beds here. Fill it in with really good soil and it's less work. I also keep so things (herbs, garlic) in pots.


My wife said the same thing this morning.

She is working with a landscape guy, and the area she has abuts a circular space for flowers and bushes. She wants this garden area to come straight off the house, and then ending with the apex of the flower bed. It will form a "sloppy triangle." She will ask landscaper to roto-tll her area and we will buy some 'good dirt.' I can shovel dirt. If Mel Gibson can shovel worse in Thunderdome, I guess I can work for the morning...


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## Yavanna

Annie said:


> Yavanna said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sugar.
> Sugar goes goopy after a while, about a year or so. I hear a lot of talk about sugar being a very long term item, but it does not seem to work around these parts.
> Perhaps in cold climates it does preserve better, but here it just goes bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I've never heard of that. My sugar is 4 years old. How are you storing it? Sounds like moisture is getting into the packaging somehow.
Click to expand...

I do not think moisture gets in, I believe it is because of the heat (keep in mind that I like in Brazil). Do you when are heating sugar to make caramel and it does kinda clumps together at the begining? Thats how it looks like. 
What kind of sugar do you have? Beet sugar our sugarcane sugar? 
Keeping sugar for 5 years is not possible in this parts. We always keep an extra bag of sugar, but that is it.


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## Yavanna

The Tourist said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I've never heard of that. My sugar is 4 years old. How are you storing it? Sounds like moisture is getting into the packaging somehow.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the "sugar" processed in the States is the same product as in Brazil? For example, near my home in the 'burbs of Milwaukee, there are lots of maple trees and you can get syrup on any corner vegetable stand. And they sell sugary items, like little brown sugar figurines. I cannot remember ever seeing one in white sugar.
Click to expand...

we have sugar cane sugar here, I wondered the same, if what you have over there is processed differently from what we have here. 
Never tried maple syrup, it is very, very expensive. I see it sometimes in the imported foods section of the supermarket and I cringe just by looking at the price. 
Anyways, if I lived in the countryside I could plant my own sugar cane and make fresh sugar every year &#128516;


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## Yavanna

Mad Trapper said:


> I store my sugar in qt canning jars, 4 lbs fits in about two quarts. Stays granular and never hardens or gets mushy. Take out a pt at a time into a pint canning jar for use. If you have a lot to store, 1/2 gal canning jars.
> 
> No problems with ants or mice either.
> 
> My maple syrup I also put in ball/mason jars, but water bath can , kept out of heat/light lasts many years.
> 
> Home canned sauces/veggies/fruits are also fine after > 10 years. Stored in cool dark cellar. I opened some peaches canned in a cinnamon syrup they had not discolored (treated with lemon juice prior to canning) and tasted great on some vanilla ice cream. So are my tomato sauces/salsa, some good years I've put up 10-15 gallons.
> 
> I have a stash of dehydrated hen of the woods mushrooms, some from 2008, also stored in canning jars, they are fine. Dry until crisp, fill jar, heat in oven on low until warm/hot, crank down cap, lids will seal; If not really dry this will not work.
> 
> View attachment 97847
> View attachment 97847
> 
> 
> whoops double vision!


keeping things out of heat here is not an easy task, in summer it is impossible (unless you consider the refrigerator). So my main opinion about the sugar geting "melted" is because of the the temperature. We do not keep more than an extra bag of it at home.


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## Annie

Yavanna said:


> I do not think moisture gets in, I believe it is because of the heat (keep in mind that I like in Brazil). Do you when are heating sugar to make caramel and it does kinda clumps together at the begining? Thats how it looks like.
> What kind of sugar do you have? Beet sugar our sugarcane sugar?
> Keeping sugar for 5 years is not possible in this parts. We always keep an extra bag of sugar, but that is it.


We use regular old sugar cane at my house. Either Dominos or a store brand depending on where I'm shopping at the time. Whether its left on the shelf in the original paper wrapper or transferred to a glass jar, after a long period of time the result is the same: it clumps together. However it's easy to smash when it gets that way and it'll return to its granular salt-like consistency. So, not a problem. Tastes just like the day we bought it.


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## Annie

Yavanna said:


> keeping things out of heat here is not an easy task, in summer it is impossible (unless you consider the refrigerator). So my main opinion about the sugar geting "melted" is because of the the temperature. We do not keep more than an extra bag of it at home.


You're prolly better off using honey.


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## Mad Trapper

Yavanna said:


> keeping things out of heat here is not an easy task, in summer it is impossible (unless you consider the refrigerator). So my main opinion about the sugar geting "melted" is because of the the temperature. We do not keep more than an extra bag of it at home.


Sugar does not melt, but decomposes at a temperature of 186 oC, nearly twice the b.p. of water. The products are a complex mixture commonly called "caramel"

I suspect the humidity, in Brazil, introduces water and the "melting" you observe is actually the sugar/sucrose dissolving. It is soluble with water at a 2:1 ratio (w:w). This also causes pure sugar to fuse into amorphous solids from fine crystalline granules with small amounts of water.

Try keeping it well sealed and only open the large container to fill the smaller dispensing ones.

This is true of many moisture sensitive things........


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## Yavanna

I does not "melt" in the bag, but I have no better word for it. The sugar here is sold in sealed plastic bags, and you can keep it in the original bag or transfer it to another container, it goes bad either way. 
Flour is sold in paper bags and it does not goes bad, even after a long time. Same goes with other things like past. Powdered chocolate does not go bad either. Just sugar gets bad after a year or so. Other itens last much longer.
Humidity is not so high most of the year around here, in fact, a big part of the country has very low air humidity levels (<40%, even dropping as low as 15%) for a good part of year. Maybe I could try to store some darker sugar (such as demerara sugar) to see if it lasts better.


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## jimb1972

Annie said:


> We use regular old sugar cane at my house. Either Dominos or a store brand depending on where I'm shopping at the time. Whether its left on the shelf in the original paper wrapper or transferred to a glass jar, after a long period of time the result is the same: it clumps together. However it's easy to smash when it gets that way and it'll return to its granular salt-like consistency. So, not a problem. Tastes just like the day we bought it.


Have you tried the flour from the LDS cannery? I store quite a bit of it, but only personally know it's good for 4-5 years so far. I keep sugar in the #10 cans on hand as well.


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## Mad Trapper

Yavanna said:


> I does not "melt" in the bag, but I have no better word for it. The sugar here is sold in sealed plastic bags, and you can keep it in the original bag or transfer it to another container, it goes bad either way.
> Flour is sold in paper bags and it does not goes bad, even after a long time. Same goes with other things like past. Powdered chocolate does not go bad either. Just sugar gets bad after a year or so. Other itens last much longer.
> Humidity is not so high most of the year around here, in fact, a big part of the country has very low air humidity levels (<40%, even dropping as low as 15%) for a good part of year. Maybe I could try to store some darker sugar (such as demerara sugar) to see if it lasts better.


Trust me on the fact you need a better sealed container.

I taught organic chemistry for > 20 years and worked with many compounds much more moisture sensitive than sugar. Some would decompose just exposed to air.


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## Annie

jimb1972 said:


> Have you tried the flour from the LDS cannery? I store quite a bit of it, but only personally know it's good for 4-5 years so far. I keep sugar in the #10 cans on hand as well.


Yes, you're right. I do have some of that LDS flour but it's the exception. Anything by LDS cannery is the exception, imo.


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## Annie

Mad Trapper said:


> Trust me on the fact you need a better sealed container.
> 
> I taught organic chemistry for > 20 years and worked with many compounds much more moisture sensitive than sugar. Some would decompose just exposed to air.


I've heard it from reputable food storage sources I trust (from LDS) that you can keep it in your attic or your garage.


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## Ragnarök

Honey! Yes I agree honey is much better than sugar cane granules. It is more expensive by far but it is superior.

I have around 60 pounds of honey...I also brew with it so I’m not just a Pooh bear...


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## Mad Trapper

Ragnarök said:


> Honey! Yes I agree honey is much better than sugar cane granules. It is more expensive by far but it is superior.
> 
> I have around 60 pounds of honey...I also brew with it so I'm not just a Pooh bear...


Yes honey is much better! It can be used as an antiseptic to treat wounds, and ingested has healing properties.

I've brewed with it, but not mead. I add it to a hard cider ferment I call "cimead".

I've thought of getting some hives but don't want to deal with the bear problem (electric fencing).


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## White Shadow

jimb1972 said:


> Have you tried the flour from the LDS cannery? I store quite a bit of it, but only personally know it's good for 4-5 years so far. I keep sugar in the #10 cans on hand as well.


Most of those LDS #10 cans are supposed to be good for at least 25 years if you don't put them in really warm temps.


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## Ragnarök

Mad Trapper said:


> Yes honey is much better! It can be used as an antiseptic to treat wounds, and ingested has healing properties.
> 
> I've brewed with it, but not mead. I add it to a hard cider ferment I call "cimead".
> 
> I've thought of getting some hives but don't want to deal with the bear problem (electric fencing).


Bears would be an issue, but you could elevate the hives so the bears couldn't reach them. No need for electric fence then.

Do you mind sharing your Cimead recipe?


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## Annie

White Shadow said:


> Most of those LDS #10 cans are supposed to be good for at least 25 years if you don't put them in really warm temps.


he white flour's good for 10 years they say
"White flour can be used in breads, baked goods, and more. Each case contains 6 no. 10 cans. The estimated shelf life of this product is 10 years if stored in a cool, dry place. See nutritional information in Details tab. "


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## The Tourist

Annie, I always thought that "white flour" was more for cakes and cookies. Does it have a superior or long term usage for prepper storage?


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> Annie, I always thought that "white flour" was more for cakes and cookies. Does it have a superior or long term usage for prepper storage?


Ya know, I'm trying to stay away from refined carbs. But my family really, really likes my French bread. So I do make it every so often. Two loaves (the size of a pound cake) will probably be nearly gone by the end of the day. In an emergency, I'm sure warm bread fresh out of the oven (or solar oven) would be a welcome thing. If you're using strait up all purpose flour as opposed to bread flour, you need gluten. The recipe calls for bread flour, salt, sugar, water and yeast. That's all. No dairy.

Flour's also handy for tortillas.


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## The Tourist

Annie said:


> If you're using strait up all purpose flour as opposed to bread flour, you need gluten.


This might sound odd, but I've never seen any packaging marked "gluten." I'm not even sure what it is.


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> This might sound odd, but I've never seen any packaging marked "gluten." I'm not even sure what it is.


Here ya go.









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## White Shadow

Annie said:


> he white flour's good for 10 years they say
> "White flour can be used in breads, baked goods, and more. Each case contains 6 no. 10 cans. The estimated shelf life of this product is 10 years if stored in a cool, dry place. See nutritional information in Details tab. "


Well I just wandered over to the shelves and checked. I still have two #10 cans of flour that are just over 11 years old so I'll pop one open in the next few days and take a look. I did look and the cans I have of sugar, oats, and macaroni are marked for 30 year storage. Some of the others like dehydrated apple slices don't have anything marked that I could read without my glasses, so maybe I'll pop one each of those too and report back.

Somewhere on the bottom shelf I have a couple of cans that my wife ordered back in the dark ages of "hard red wheat". I buried them in the back because we don't have a wheat grinder and I'm not sure we would know what to do with flour made from that type of wheat if we did. I should probably see if it's something that some of the wildlife would like.


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## Annie

White Shadow said:


> Well I just wandered over to the shelves and checked. I still have two #10 cans of flour that are just over 11 years old so I'll pop one open in the next few days and take a look. I did look and the cans I have of sugar, oats, and macaroni are marked for 30 year storage. Some of the others like dehydrated apple slices don't have anything marked that I could read without my glasses, so maybe I'll pop one each of those too and report back.
> 
> Somewhere on the bottom shelf I have a couple of cans that my wife ordered back in the dark ages of "hard red wheat". I buried them in the back because we don't have a wheat grinder and I'm not sure we would know what to do with flour made from that type of wheat if we did. I should probably see if it's something that some of the wildlife would like.


It's 30 years on the apple slices, too.

I Can't remember where I heard this, but I'm pretty sure someone said you can boil the hard red and white wheat if you don't have a grinder. I haven't got a grinder either. If it came to it, I'll boil the stuff. Here's hoping we'll never have to test that out.


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## StratMaster

Annie said:


> Ya know, I'm trying to stay away from refined carbs. But my family really, really likes my French bread. So I do make it every so often. Two loaves (the size of a pound cake) will probably be nearly gone by the end of the day. In an emergency, I'm sure warm bread fresh out of the oven (or solar oven) would be a welcome thing. If you're using strait up all purpose flour as opposed to bread flour, you need gluten. The recipe calls for bread flour, salt, sugar, water and yeast. That's all. No dairy.
> 
> Flour's also handy for tortillas.


Tortillas! The prepper's best friend. You can take any number of canned goods - diced tomatoes, refried beans, canned chicken, beef, or pork, black olives - and have a yummy hot dinner ready toot sweet!


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## Annie

StratMaster said:


> Tortillas! The prepper's best friend. You can take any number of canned goods - diced tomatoes, refried beans, canned chicken, beef, or pork, black olives - and have a yummy hot dinner ready toot sweet!


Yes, very handy!






I recently found a recipe for keto tortillas. Tried it. They're pretty good.


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## The Tourist

Annie, thanks for the lead on gluten. I must admit that I do not often go with my wife to the grocery store, but when she sends me for an item I have never seen packaged gluten. Then again, I'm not sure I really looked. We're cooking more at home, and I'm hoping that we try some bread. I do not eat a lot of it, mostly flat-bread. But it would be nice to have some options.


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## stevekozak

Annie said:


> Yes, very handy!


Annie,
Did you make the tortillas from the first video? She never said how hot to get the skillet. Do you know what heat to have on the skillet for these? I would like to try.


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## Annie

> Annie,
> Did you make the tortillas from the first video? She never said how hot to get the skillet. Do you know what heat to have on the skillet for these? I would like to try.


 Yes, I've made--sort of. I followed her recipe except for switching out the canola for vegetable oil. I personally like a little more salt than she added here, but otherwise the recipe's really good.

This Lady (below) says 375 is the right temp. I don't know how you can tell that on a cast iron pan, which is what I use. The way I tell is by using my eyes, ears and nose, and then tasting, lol. You want it to stay in the pan long enough to get the flour taste cooked out, but (obviously) not so long that you burn it. ETA: the Lady below uses wax paper to roll the dough. Good idea!





BTW, I'm doing both the flour and the low carb (almond) tortillas tonight. I've got cheese, salsa and refried beans. That and a green salad is what we're calling dinner here.


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## Annie

I had it in mind to put some of the kale remains from my green drink this morning into the tortillas.
















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## Annie

Here's what the plain ones look like. The kale tortillas could have been mixed a little better. Next time!









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## White Shadow

White Shadow said:


> Well I just wandered over to the shelves and checked. I still have two #10 cans of flour that are just over 11 years old so I'll pop one open in the next few days and take a look. I did look and the cans I have of sugar, oats, and macaroni are marked for 30 year storage. Some of the others like dehydrated apple slices don't have anything marked that I could read without my glasses, so maybe I'll pop one each of those too and report back.
> 
> Somewhere on the bottom shelf I have a couple of cans that my wife ordered back in the dark ages of "hard red wheat". I buried them in the back because we don't have a wheat grinder and I'm not sure we would know what to do with flour made from that type of wheat if we did. I should probably see if it's something that some of the wildlife would like.


I opened a can of that 11 year old flour. It looked like flour and the texture seemed like flour, but it smelled kind of off. It went in the trash with the one other can I had of that vintage so evidently it doesn't last 11 years.


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## stevekozak

Annie said:


> I had it in mind to put some of the kale remains from my green drink this morning into the tortillas.
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk





Annie said:


> Here's what the plain ones look like. The kale tortillas could have been mixed a little better. Next time!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


They look good!!


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## Annie

stevekozak said:


> They look good!!


Thanks. They turned out pretty good--the flour ones. I messed with the recipe for the low carb tortillas and they were too sticky in the pan. I'm letting the dough rest overnight and hopefully they'll come out better tomorrow.


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## White Shadow

As far as I'm concerned, kale is not human food.


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## The Tourist

White Shadow said:


> As far as I'm concerned, kale is not human food.


I never cared for it as a "stand alone" side-dish, myself. The way Annie prepared her dish makes me want to try it. I hear that kale is good for you, I just don't like in it raw form.


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## Slippy

White Shadow said:


> As far as I'm concerned, kale is not human food.


Correct-O-Mundo! I don't know what these fools be talking about? Eating Cale? Makes no sense to me...:vs_no_no_no:

Only one of the best racecar drivers in history! I betcha even at 80 years old Cale would still dot the eye of anyone tried to eat him! :tango_face_wink: 
https://speedsport.com/racing-history/champion-cale-yarborough/


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