# Water or Power or Security Which first?



## TMCertified (May 8, 2013)

We have our 5 acres and just got a descent amount of it cleared and our pop up camper out there. Next is trying to prioritize what to do! 

The three choices are security in the form of using our money to fence in the property. We have finally settled on the type of fence we are using due to our 4 year old having Autism we have to make sure it can't be climbed while trying to avoid the tens of thousands it would take for aluminum non-climb fence. So we are using roofing aluminum sheets with wood that will block all vision and keep it from being able to be climbed by anyone on the outside or the inside and is pretty cheap to do. Do not have a full price though yet. 

Second would be a well dug. We got a quote for about $3750.00 to build a well with a hand pump. Once we get our living space up we can add an 85 gallon tank on it to have powered running water but for now we want to get a hand pump to make sure we can get water when we need it with or without power. Which brings my final.

Power. We are looking at two options. One is temporary power for about $1800.00 by the power company but it is temporary till we get our final place ready so to me that is some what of a waste. Or a honda generator that can power the pop up camper. Which is about $2200.00. 

I was leaning towards the power because it is the cheapest and we could probably have that ready by the end of the summer. However, what good is lights on if there isn't any way of getting water and no way to protect your spot if the situation happens. However, if we went water route, well that is great, but we can't protect our land (it would probably take a few days anyways for people to figure out where our land is anyways for the most part) but no real way to protect with no guns or fencing just a bow and a BB gun. That won't do much right now! So is having water the way to go even if we can't protect it and no power? Or do we throw up the fence to secure the property and secure our son is safe from wondering. However, building a fence could hinder future development as we continue to put things around the property. Just really don't know which direction to go first. I first thought power cause we can use it at the property or at our current house should a hurricane or anything natural happen. My wife says go with the water and obviously we need water to survive. Hopefully it won't matter because really either way we are screwed if something too major happens right now. But what does everyone else think?


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

You have the most important thing - shelter. The next is water. Get the well drilled and put it on the highest ground you have. That way you can use whatever slope you have to assist the pump - regardless of the type of pump.


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## TMCertified (May 8, 2013)

All flat land here. Well maybe a slight slope into our wetlands which is in the back half of the yard. But yes we do have a pop up camper so we do have shelter even though it isn't much of a shelter. It does work. So you say throw up that pump and then what would be next, generator or security?


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

In a normal situation I would say water, power, then fence. Your situation isn't the norm with the considerations for your son. I'd say certainly water first, then listen to your gut and heart. We can make all the recommendations in the world but we don't know your son, and how resourceful he is in his escape artistry.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

What's your time frame? Personally, I'd say water, security then generator. I say security in that you have your son to think about. I'd take the cheap route on power until I could then afford later to get look at alternatives. Also, there are less expensive generators besides a Honda.


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## TMCertified (May 8, 2013)

If we were moving out there it would have to be fence first and I would collect morning dew off the grass if I had to haha. But since we have our home a couple of miles away and we will be out there just working on the land with limited time staying there I'm Ok waiting on the fence as we keep a sharp eye on him. We have 5 kids so everyone is always on alert including my wife wife and I. So fence for him is a super high priority but I'm ok looping it in there with security of the property for now and since we are not living there. I have been going around and picking up abandoned pallets at local stores and I'm going to build a temporary pallet fence. While this will not keep him in it will at least give a barrier that will help him see the boundaries. Out of the 5 acres we have about 2 that we can use as the other 3 is wet lands so we just have 2 acres to fence. Which is still a big area to fence!


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

sounds like you have a good plan!


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## TMCertified (May 8, 2013)

Time frame is soon as we can save up enough money. My goal is sometime in august to be able to get either the well or the power. So I'm leaning well now to have in August or by the end of August. Then the fence and the power by the end of the year


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Without the water issue solved first the other two really dont matter now do they?

You can survive without a fence, you can survive with out power but you can not survive without water! You will need water to sustain yourself physically and you will need water to keep any live stock and to grow a garden. So to my way of thinking water is the priority. 

The power issue can be addressed next with something such as a genset, followed by a few solar panels and a windmill generator and eventually possibly a 30-50 amp hook up as money is available. On my property I had a small desiel genset that I used for a while until I could afford to have a 50 amp RV type hook up installed. This allowed me to use Farm Grade deisel which is cheaper than gas to power things up. I then added a few panels and a small windmill genset. I eventually added the 50 amp hook up even though my RV was a 30 amp righ. After that I finally finished the small structure on the property thats earth bermed and then used a RV cord to run power from the 50 amp hook up to the power panel of the structure to give me power inside the structure. Did I spend a little money, yeah. But I was able to keep myself sustainable until I could reach my end goal and further more the Tax office or the power company doesnt know I have a structure on the property...just a concrete pad to park an RV and a 50 amp hook up with a "hill" behind it when I am there on "vacation".

As for the fence you could install a smaller temp fence and then eventually install a more permenant fence around the property as funds are available.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

They grow up so fast, I would think 1/4 to 1/2 acre fenced in would be plenty, not like you're building a dog run. Seriously, a 4 yr. old legs are short. No way to be left unattended in a fenced in area with wetlands with 5 acres to cover. Better to have him close to keep an eye on. On another note, you don't want to be leaving yourself in the blind by not seeing whats coming because of a no-see-thru fence. The old adage- if its locked and guarded-must be something worthwhile behind it. Best not to draw attention to yourself. jmho


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Water, security, electricity. Of all the things we need fo our survival...elctricity wasn't one of them until just over a hundred years ago. So I think you'll be fine!


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## exmilitary (Jun 17, 2013)

I would go with water. The most important thing you will need, without it one can't survive. 
Next is security. You will want train yourself and family on how to defend your property. You don't want anyone to steal from you or your family.
Power can wait until the above can be established. Man can survive without power.


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## TMCertified (May 8, 2013)

As stated earlier I'm going to put up a Pallet fence in the mean time of free pallets I have acquired. The draw attention to myself thing is something I concern about a bit. I guess I don't get it. If you can't see on the other side why would you want to put yourself in danger to get there? If there is a place well fortified I'd skip it for something easier. I don't know that is just me though.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Run some posts in maybe 1/4 acre, put some bells on rope connected to the posts, & you have an alarm system just incase your son tried getting out.

Seven people will require alot of water. Water is critical in Florida. I would assume you are transporting drinking & cooking water at present. Why not kill two birds with one stone so to say. You are going to need a leanto shelter. One over the camper will cool off the camper immensely. From 1" of rain on 1sqft of surface you can collect .6gal of water. A 4x8 sheet of roofing tin is 32sqft so could collect 19 gallons from 1" of rain. Rain gutter & collect the water into an IBC tote. I made a ceramic water filter system for under $50. That should take care of all water needs for the time you spend there till moving there permanently.

Water has to take priority. Remember that with a hand pump you have to have water on hand to prime the pump.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

TMCertified said:


> As stated earlier I'm going to put up a Pallet fence in the mean time of free pallets I have acquired. The draw attention to myself thing is something I concern about a bit. I guess I don't get it. If you can't see on the other side why would you want to put yourself in danger to get there? If there is a place well fortified I'd skip it for something easier. I don't know that is just me though.


True, but remember, your thinking like a concerned father, considering the well being of a family, You not thinking like a CRIMINAL. 
A lot of great ideas, but myself, I would first aquire a 12 gauge shotgun. Then I would go with the well, while building your pallet fence. You can always add fence to what you have erected.
I have zero experience with an autistic child, so these are just my opinions.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Did the well drilling company state about how deep they needed to drill? Concerned they might be doing a sand well.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Power is not the most important but it will help you do other things. Unless you are trying to live on the property full time then water.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm of the mindset, water first then security and electricity. It seems to me that the fence is more to keep your son safe then for security of the property I don't think I would consider said fence as security but I would classify it as a safety issue and make it a higher priority than security, your family's safety takes priority. As for the fence securing the property I don't feel that a fence really secures much unless it's barbed wired with rows of razor wire topping it, that would help secure the property but there's always a way to get over it no matter what. I like the idea of the temporary pallet fence, pallets are pretty useful things and are generally available free of charge so I would get started on that ASAP. I would consider skinning the pallets with some metal roofing panels or similar item so your boy would have trouble climbing them, this would also add some structural integrity to the fence. I would also consider putting posts in between those pallets and going 2 pallets high if you can lay your hands on enough of them, that should ensure that he couldn't climb them. I'd put the posts in the ground and put up one row of pallets and then add the second row as I acquired them, then as funds allow pick up the metal roofing and start skinning those pallets. After all that, as soon as funds were available I would add the well with the hand pump. I would then concentrate on some security measures such as weapons and training for everyone. You could mix this up a bit and maybe put the well in after the first row of pallets were up and work on the rest as time and funding allows.

-Infidel


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

So, shelter you have, water is the next step then a secure place for the kids to play followed by power so you can actually build the structure that you will live in.
While you are building you will need a secure place for supplies and tools to prevent theft. I leaned that the hard way - Even when you own 125 acres people will steal from you. I lost a 6000 watt generator and a bit over $600 in tools while putting up the building in our secondary BOL.


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## TMCertified (May 8, 2013)

Sorry to hear that Paul. We don't have a ton of tools right now, just a couple of Machetes, a couple of shovels and back hoes. Had a chain saw out there for a couple of weeks and nobody seems to bother anything. We are in an area that is nothing but 5 acres lots and then ours is down at the end of a dirt road that nobody seems to travel so I feel fairly safe and my neighbor seems like a very solid individual. But you never know. 

This all sounds great, I'm going to go ahead with the Well while working on the Pallet fence and I am planning on doing the metal sheet roofing for the final fence so maybe I can get some of those and reuse them when I'm ready for my permanent fence. We are going to a gun show this Sunday to look at some different weapons. A shotgun, rifle, and handgun are on the list that we will be looking at but we need to find a secure and agreed upon way of keeping them safe from the kids in the mean time. We are talking about it with them a few times a week and when we watch shows point out the safety and respect aspect to get them used to the idea of weapons and that they are not toys and very serious. Things are moving along however it has been raining constantly and I haven't been able to get out there for the past week and it is killing me! I hate waiting! I'm ready to go! Things are coming along though. It is a great journey so far.


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## TMCertified (May 8, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> Did the well drilling company state about how deep they needed to drill? Concerned they might be doing a sand well.


Hi Hunting, I know once you get down below about 1 or 2 feet it becomes sand. He has built the majority of the wells that are out in this area and was highly recommended by my neighbors. He says he charges a 200ft minimum but that it shouldn't go more than 40 to 60 feet till he hit lime rock but he has had to go 200 plus in a couple of properties. He also said the well in the property next to me is an artisan well if I spelled that right. So he will have to cap it or something like that. I feel pretty confident from talking to him and hearing my neighbors speak well of him that he will do the job right but I know absolutely nothing when it comes to this.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

With out security what ever you do have will not be yours long.
Security can take on many forms but with out you are just holding water,food and other items for who ever takes them from you.


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## TMCertified (May 8, 2013)

Hi Smitty, I agree which is why I decided to ask my question. However, I do think that since we are not living there full time and still building it out that the well first should be good and i'm going to start building a pallet fence beginning next week with all of the pallets I'm collecting. Going to a gun show this sunday but not sure if I'll pick anything up yet or not. Need to hit the range first to see what I like.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

TMCertified said:


> Hi Hunting, I know once you get down below about 1 or 2 feet it becomes sand. He has built the majority of the wells that are out in this area and was highly recommended by my neighbors. He says he charges a 200ft minimum but that it shouldn't go more than 40 to 60 feet till he hit lime rock but he has had to go 200 plus in a couple of properties. He also said the well in the property next to me is an artisan well if I spelled that right. So he will have to cap it or something like that. I feel pretty confident from talking to him and hearing my neighbors speak well of him that he will do the job right but I know absolutely nothing when it comes to this.


Artesian wells are great.. We have one here in Montana and it is under pressure already. You can walk out to the spigot and turn it on without a pump on and it will put out a few gallons a minute.. This is the first one I have seen or had and am very happy to have it!

In your situation being in central Florida in a community.. I would say water first.. The security "fence" isn't going to do much good to keep people out if they want to get in.. With your child, it makes it a little different but you can just keep an eye out a little mare to make sure noting happens.. For the choices you gave for power, I would pick the power company over the generator just for cost reasons.. I would look into solar if I were you..Solar is getting cheaper and cheaper and if the grid were to go down, neither of your choices will work for any length of time..


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Nothing means business like the sound of a pump shotgun. And quite effective at night if a flashlight is mounted under the barrel.

Florida well drilling companies drive the pipe threw the sand till they hit rock then drill threw the rock. Usually good water on the lower side of limestone.

But still consider in the future that any livestock you can set up to be self watering pens. They need a roof of some type & that water can be fed to their water containers. With rain gutter to a holding tank you just turn the water on for a few minutes every few days to fill their water containers. That works for chickens, goats, or whatever because the larger the animals the more water they need but will need a larger shelter so more rain is collected.

And if you are going to build a place, seriously give consideration to a tin roof as no contaminates such as tar from shingled roofs. Collecting that rain water can be used for your garden. Nothing better for a garden then rain water. Another good option for collected rain water is directly flushing toilets. Each flush is about 5 gallons. So for each 5 gallons of rain you can collect that is 5 gallons you don't have to get out of the ground.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Before you start designing or building you may want to see what the laws for homestead exemption are in your county. Mine require commercial electric. Also, the home has to be fixed in that if its a mobile home the axles must be removed. Also must be hooked up to commercial water & sewer or have a well & septic tank.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

TMCertified said:


> Hi Smitty, I agree which is why I decided to ask my question. However, I do think that since we are not living there full time and still building it out that the well first should be good and i'm going to start building a pallet fence beginning next week with all of the pallets I'm collecting. Going to a gun show this sunday but not sure if I'll pick anything up yet or not. Need to hit the range first to see what I like.


 Good luck with your project it all takes time to come together.
Securty also means safety you need to protect your living space from fire and weather you need a clear space around you to view what maybe coming and to keep fire and rodents back from the living area.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Versatility of a shotgun kinda dictates it should be the first choice of firearms. Reliability of a pump shotgun & price should dictate it being the choice.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Alittle on well pumps & solar. Well pumps are above ground (J pump) or below ground (sump pump). A DC pump is a good choice. Voltage to them dictated by depth of the pump. Often pumps can be operated from 12-72VDC.

24VDC solar panels are readily available. Often solar controllers are 12 or 24VDC. And two 12VDC deep cycle batteries attached in series gives you 24VDC. So setting up for 24VDC to operate the pump off solar isn't hard. To double that to 48VDC isn't hard. Two 24VDC solar panels in series gives you 48VDC & four 12VDC batteries in series gives you 48VDC. But a 48VDC controller is going to cost more then a 12/24 as alittle less common.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

If you live in an area with artisan well that is a pretty good indication of shallow ground water meaning you likely have a good supply.
We have two here and if they still have water in a dry year you are in real good shape.
A sand point well is one where nothing but a pipe with a sand point on it is driven into the ground until it hits water the were commonly used in areas with shallow water levels and sandy sub soil. The can be a great way to ta into water with a lot of equipment or permits they are easy to hide.
We covered sand point well in a early thread here


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## Camron (May 6, 2013)

I think the Water must be first priority and than you must have security that will help you more.And then power.But some time it depends on the situation that what you need after the water.Because different areas have different situations and needs.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

I agree with water first, without water why would you need power or security? you would be dead in in less then a week.
Water first, security second, power third and in some instances you dont need power at all.


Doc


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## jandor123 (Oct 24, 2012)

You wouldnt really need your water or security unless you lost power. So, you will always have water and security until you restore some type of power.
I keep 150GAL close, and access to more away from the property. Always have my security...loaded and cocked....;-)
If you can make fire, you are golden. People have lived like that for thousands of years.


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## pastornator (Apr 5, 2013)

I'm not sure either-or will always be an option. That us what makes survival difficult. As you bend over to scoop up water someone starts shooting at you and you are doing all that cause the power us out.


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

LunaticFringeInc said:


> Without the water issue solved first the other two really dont matter now do they?
> 
> You can survive without a fence, you can survive with out power but you can not survive without water! You will need water to sustain yourself physically and you will need water to keep any live stock and to grow a garden. So to my way of thinking water is the priority.
> 
> ...


What he says. You've got ruffly three days without water and your toast. Plus the well adds the most value and marketability to the property should you ever decide for any reason to sell.

As far a power... Have you considered staying "off the grid" options? Solar, water powered (even a SMALL stream will do), wind, etc.? Check out "Backwoods Home Magazine". They've had all kinds of articles I think you'll like. http://www.backwoodshome.com/


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Keep in mind that the original poster was just through clearing some of his acreage and planning on building. He has a trailer in place for temporary shelter and was asking specific questions regarding security for his son with some minor disabilities.

Water next - because it is a good idea to have potable water when building. Power to use while building a fence to keep the youngster from getting into danger followed by building the home.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

I am close to water but it would be a challenge to purify enough to supply current normal consumption.

If water could remain as a current constant I think people could adjust to no electricity.

It is the lack good water that will kill and cause the most violence during an extended SHTF.

That is my opinion.


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## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

Water vote here as well. As with the fence I have no experience with children whatsoever but that type of fence does add to the "oh what are they trying to hide" aspect of it. A defensive weapon is paramount in my opinion as well, you can get a decent defensive shotgun for $300 or so.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Another vote for the pump shotgun for reasons stated here and go to Walmart(Usually cheapest supply of ammo) and see what's in stock. Most new guns come with a safety lock these days if not a bicycle cable lock makes a cheap alternative. The no climb fence sounds interesting I'm fencing my property as well I may try that as an inner perimeter with the exterior being four strand barbed wire as a line of demarcation.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I like electric fence as the outer boundary. I might put an inner fence in so my dogs can patrol between the two fences.

Fences don't really stop anyone who wants to get in but those two Karelian dogs know who belongs and who doesn't.


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## Edwin (Sep 9, 2013)

All things have their own importance but i think the security is more important because until you are completely secure you can't do anything.And for security you need many other things that relate with it like power.So its hard to choose one of them.


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

Did you ever decide on what you were goin to do? BTW, did you ever get that .308?


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