# Suture Kit



## n00b-prepper

Hello everyone,
I have a question that I have not yet seen a thread for. My wife and I have been talking about learning how to do sutures for SHTF times. Does anybody out there have any ideas on how to practice this skill? I was thinking maybe pig skin, since it is kind of like human skin. Also I have noticed the kits online sell for around $150. Is dental floss a good substitute for this the string?


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## sparkyprep

Practice Suturing - Basic and Advanced | Simulab Corporation


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## Nathan Jefferson

Get butterfly strips and steri-strips, and super glue. Learn how to use those. Leave suturing to a professional. 

Seriously.

If you have a wound that is serious enough to need suturing instead of one of the items above you need to find real medical help. That's why it would be a good idea to find where any Dr.s RN's or even vet's near you BOL are.


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## retired guard

I have seen enough uses of the strips and super glue to try if I had no alternative, but it's a painful way to die saving a buck if you got it wrong.


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## Montana Rancher

You can get vet sutures reasonably cheap, they often sell them 2 for 1 in 12 packs around $12

Suture & Skin Closure - Veterinary Supplies, Medical Products for clinics, hospitals

You can also buy mosquito forceps for a buck there with most orders.

Check you tube for videos on sewing, a banana is a good place to start, then move on to chicken skin


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## paraquack

While I agree that suturing is a skill. especially if you need to use multiple levels of suturing (deep ones with an absorbable material), it is something that can be practiced and can easily save a life I a doctor isn't available. You can practice on pork and chicken. The hardest thing for me was to remember how to tie the knot. "Steri strips" are great but not for deep lacerations.


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## PaulS

Deep lacerations often require internal as well as external stitches. Without antibiotics you are asking for gangrene and the loss of life or at least the loss of an appendage.
I would not hesitate to use whatever sterile equipment I had to sew up a cut that went to a muscle or maybe slightly into it - getting real iffy - but deep lacerations require drainage and antibiotics to prevent infection. (that's after they are thoroughly scrubbed out) You might be better served to use antiseptic flooding of the wound and binding so it is allowed to drain and heal naturally. Perhaps even coating it with honey and placing plastic wrap over it. (no honey in the wound but over the closed wound) That will keep it free of bacteria and prevent oxygen from getting through your dressing.


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## acfink

This is were I learned, I just picked up a 20$ kit online


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## exmilitary

Use pork or chicken for practicing. I have several types in my kit.


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## Inor

acfink said:


> This is were I learned, I just picked up a 20$ kit online


I was going to link that exact video. It is an excellent resources. Actually, everything Dr Bones does is good. He explains things very plainly and in sufficient detail that even somebody like me that has no medical inclination can understand it.


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## n00b-prepper

Awesome. Thanks everybody. I never really thought about using vet medical supplies.


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## exmilitary

n00b-prepper said:


> Awesome. Thanks everybody. I never really thought about using vet medical supplies.


You will find that a lot of the stuff used in vet practice can be used on humans with exceptions to certain medications.


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## ApexPredator

*Sutue KIT*

I carry a suture set on me when I go to work for a decent set that will last awhile your gonna have to invest. 
Needle Holders 6-9 inch variety while you can make do a decent one will save you time and frustration. These have a cross hatching pattern on the end to allow you to hold the suture needle at any angle very important that you be able to do this.
2 addison tissue forceps you need to make sure these have 3 teeth on the end two on the bottom 1 on top they are sharp for a secure hold on tissue
scalpel handle you can buy blades cheaper/less bulky than disposables but you must sterilize between procedures 
1 Mayo scissors curved and straight sometimes its much easier safer and practical to use scissors instead of scalpels
2-6 Hemostats 6-9 inch variety best
2-6 Mosquito hemostats i find the 2-3 inch kind best they are curved to allow for visualization of the vessel you are trying to clamp
2 Allis clamps these are your heavy duty holders they have many blunt teeth and are able to clamp down on tissue to allow you to man handle tissue when needed
1 bandage forceps these have blunt teeth they are useful when you dont want to cause further damage but dont need the hold of addisons or allis clamps more of a nicety
Cant think of anything else that I would say is a bare necessity at the moment though I am sure there is something I am used to having but cant think of at the moment. As for supplies re loadable suture needles are a must but you can get suture in the armed and unarmed variety also some ligature would go a long way. Lots of things could be used in place of medical suture if you would like to know more pm me and ill be happy to answer your question
also you must make sure your instruments clamps especially are fully capable that is if you clamp them all the way down you shouldn't be able to see any gaps in the teeth store them in the partially clamped position 1 tooth on the ratchet. I see a lot of prepackaged laceration trays come like this its not problem in a hospital where quality instruments are immediately available but you may want to invest in this if you don't plan on raiding a hospital at the last minute.


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## PrepConsultant

A large portion of our medical kit is veterinary.. Check local feed stores and online. I have a large animal vet I am close with and get some stuff a lot of others can't get their hands on. I grew up hog hunting with dogs and learned to sew them up when I was in Jr. High. Now it is just second nature. I have since taken a few different types of med classes so have a little real training under my belt. Although I am not legally qualified to sew a people..lol I couldn't tell you how many stitches I have done for family and a few close friends over the years. Just practice practice practice. The first time you sew on a human it will be wierd but you can do it if you need to..


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## Will2

in an emergency use anything you have, just be aware some flosses have additives to them.

bear in mind floss probably will not decompose which makes removal more complex.. and expect nasty scaring.

use anything strong enough to do it in an emergency with no medical assistance.. fishing line, thread, anything.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15022020
writing on the difference between a low cost nylon fishing line and a commercial line that costs 13x the amount.
" There are no significant differences between the two sutures in terms of clinical findings or in the reported ease of use by the surgeons. The cost of a homemade atraumatic suture is US $0.07, which is less than one-thirtieth the cost of the commercial thread. The advantage of the commercial thread is the assurance of quality. We consider whether this quality assurance justifies the large price difference, and if the homemade suture should be recommended to surgeons in countries where the costs of surgical material often remain an obstacle for life-saving operations." - from Rwanda Suture Study Findings

human mouths tend to be pretty dirty so if possible sterilize any used floss before using it to suture. infections can kill so if you can't at the time consider very carefully the likely outcome of both actions and sanitize at the earliest possible time.

imo.

consider sanitizing / sterilizing any such material you plan on using medically if it is not air sealed. Even if it has not been in your mouth or the mouth of a fish.


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## BigCheeseStick

The antibiotics (we covered in an older thread) are a non-issue. FISH MOX FORTE 500 mg Amoxicillin - FREE SHIPPING on Every order of Fish Mox Forte Fish Antibiotic

They work. I've tested. 

Also, just a heads up. Even the sterile super glue _intended_ for wound closure _STINGS_ like a son of a #$%#! If the wound it's self, or using alcohol didn't get your attention, the super glue _*WILL!*_ (I've lead an... "Adventurous" life)  I really don't recommend the super glue idea unless it's the ONLY option. It slows healing by starving oxygen, causes worse scaring, and from the time it's applied to the time you eventually can't take it anymore and scratch it off,_ it itches and hurts_. Part of it is how it pulls on the skin, part of it is the oxygen starvation, & part of it is just psychological I'm sure. But it's cruel and torturous!

Given any choice in the matter, I'll happily use Steri-strips. You can even get them at any local drug store cheap. And they work! I sliced through the skin between my thumb and forefinger and popped the stitches done in a military hospital four times as soon as they put them in and said. "Now open your hand and see if they hold.". NOPE. But the "Steri-strips" did. Healed up fast, didn't itch like crazy. http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/ne...ip-skin-closure-strips/ID=prod3347867-product

And I've taught my daughter well. My son-in-law just shattered the bone in his leg a week ago. Her first words were "I don't see any bones sticking out. Quit cryin like a baby."  THAT'S MY GIRL!


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## jimb1972

BigCheeseStick said:


> The antibiotics (we covered in an older thread) are a non-issue. FISH MOX FORTE 500 mg Amoxicillin - FREE SHIPPING on Every order of Fish Mox Forte Fish Antibiotic
> 
> They work. I've tested.
> 
> Also, just a heads up. Even the sterile super glue _intended_ for wound closure _STINGS_ like a son of a #$%#! If the wound it's self, or using alcohol didn't get your attention, the super glue _*WILL!*_ (I've lead an... "Adventurous" life)  I really don't recommend the super glue idea unless it's the ONLY option. It slows healing by starving oxygen, causes worse scaring, and from the time it's applied to the time you eventually can't take it anymore and scratch it off,_ it itches and hurts_. Part of it is how it pulls on the skin, part of it is the oxygen starvation, & part of it is just psychological I'm sure. But it's cruel and torturous!
> 
> Given any choice in the matter, I'll happily use Steri-strips. You can even get them at any local drug store cheap. And they work! I sliced through the skin between my thumb and forefinger and popped the stitches done in a military hospital four times as soon as they put them in and said. "Now open your hand and see if they hold.". NOPE. But the "Steri-strips" did. Healed up fast, didn't itch like crazy. Nexcare Steri-Strip Steri-Strip Skin Closure Strips | Walgreens
> 
> And I've taught my daughter well. My son-in-law just shattered the bone in his leg a week ago. Her first words were "I don't see any bones sticking out. Quit cryin like a baby."  THAT'S MY GIRL!


I have used cheapo generic super glue and did not notice it to be overly painful, what kind did you use? Is it possible you might be allergic to some of the ingredients?


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## BigCheeseStick

jimb1972 said:


> I have used cheapo generic super glue and did not notice it to be overly painful, what kind did you use? Is it possible you might be allergic to some of the ingredients?


They put on the sterile kind (looked like a regular bottle of super glue, but in a white tube with black letters) in the military hospital when my stitches kept popping out (didn't really help). I tried Krazy glue one time prior to that at home and it _stang like SIN!_ Couldn't have been happier with the Steri-strips. Quick, clean, simple, no pain!


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## KNUBBS

Nathan Jefferson said:


> Get butterfly strips and steri-strips, and super glue. Learn how to use those. Leave suturing to a professional.
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> If you have a wound that is serious enough to need suturing instead of one of the items above you need to find real medical help. That's why it would be a good idea to find where any Dr.s RN's or even vet's near you BOL are.


Just to throw in my testimony. I had a cut on my Achilles that went through every layer of skin. After flushing it out with clean water, we put some butterfly bandages on it. Problem solved without a trip to the MD. Sutures are some times over rated.


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## Lucky Jim

Suturing (or "stiching" as we call it in Britain) always seems a bit oldfashioned and barbaric to me, and makes my toes curl up, (i swear i'd faint if it was done to me) so why is it still used? 
People have mentioned alternatives in this thread, sich as "butterfly strips" to hold together a gaping wound, so i'm surprised stitching is still used, but I'm not a medic so what the hell do i know?
PS- if we have to be stitched, can we insist to the doctor that we'd prefer butterflies or an alternative instead?


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## Inor

Do not use SuperGlue brand. It is WAY too expensive. Just pick up a couple bottles of CA Glue. It is EXACTLY the same thing, just a whole bunch cheaper. Here is a link:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10562&site=ROCKLER

We keep a couple bottles around all the time because I use for wood stuff as well as for preps. Yes - I does sting like hell. But it works. (The CA Medium is the same as commercial SuperGlue.)


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## warrior4

Word of advice if using steri-strips or butterflies. If the person you're using them on has an excessive amount of body hair, take the time to shave that off around the laceration. Or if you don't have the time, duct tape on and off quickly works too. :twisted: The point being the body hair will not allow your adhesive dressing to stay in place as well as it should. From real world experience there are times I've had to shave parts of men and women's bodies (don't ask it wasn't pretty) to allow for a good site. Also the skin you're trying to stick something onto should be clean and dry. Blood, sweat, water, or other fluids, play hell when you're trying to use an adhesive dressing like steri-strips or butterflies.


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## medpackman

warrior4 you are correct and we have also had good luck with benzoin which really helps stick the steri strips. have you ever tried them ?


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## SurvivalGearPrep

This will not answer your question but I feel I need to say it anyway. It is not a good idea to suture anything at all unless YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. It's not just sewing the wound shut. If you are not trained in debriding wounds like having to cut out dead muscle tissue, etc as well as knowing the different layers of tissue to be sutured you could end up killing someone by sealing in infectious material and debris. It's not true that you have to close the wound for it to heal. Believe it or not a lot of suturing is for cosmetic reasons and to keep it together for quicker healing. Very deep wounds can without sutures heal in time. You may have a very ugly scarring and it may take a longer time to heal but you want be sealing in unwanted debris and the wound will drain properly. Just saying..................


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## BlackDog

I attended a suture class last night. It's was very informative and I learned a lot. While the actual suturing was pretty cool (we were using banana's to sew up) and it was not too hard to do once you get the hang of it, we learned a bunch of other stuff on wound care that would probably prove more useful than suturing ever would.


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## Just Sayin'

My wife learned to suture on a duck who had an encounter with a fox (?) that layed it's neck open clean to the esaphagous. We disenfected the wound (about 3 inches long) and sutured it with black sewing thread and a curved needle (I would not let her use one of the suture kits). I know, call PETA.

2 years later, and the duck is happy as a clam. 

They say that Orajel is a good topical anesthestic when working on humans. Haven't got my wife to agree trying that on her, but will keep on pushing, and will let y'all know if she ever agrees. Keep a couple tubes on hand just in case it works and I'm the patient. lol


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## Just Sayin'

Old SF Guy said:


> Really guys?...THis person asks to learn more on how to perform something in a SHTF situation and our answer is go find and RN or a DR.... In a SHTF situation those folks are either going to be over burdened by work... or hiding themselves until after the ashes settle. Get real folks. I used Chicken breast with skin as well as Pork with skin to practice suturing this allows for learning the delicate methods such as internal stitching for facial lacerations (sort of like a plastic surgeon would perform and normal suturing.) It's not hard to learn and I suggest you learn to do it one handed. Dental floss will work, but is very thick, I would suggest simply buying the thinnest fishing line you can and sterilize it prior to suturing. Remember these expensive kits were not available in the 1800's and people could still suture so you can do it without them... Crazy glue works great for the immediate need, as do butterfly bandages, which you can make out of duct tape or any tape...it's a style....not a product.


Yeah, but you're one of them snake eaters... and wear that funny green beanie!


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