# 1911 question,,,



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I have a question about the 1911, Does the mil spec full size 1911 9mm and a 45ACP have the same frame?
If so can a 9mm be converted to 45ACP by switching a few parts?


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> I have a question about the 1911, Does the mil spec full size 1911 9mm and a 45ACP have the same frame?
> If so can a 9mm be converted to 45ACP by switching a few parts?


Yes. I have one I switch out between .45 and .38 super (9x23 in size I think) You really have to watch out though, not all 1911s are milspec, there are ramped barrels, series 70/80 slides (you can use a series 80 slide on a series 70 frame, but you have to remove the firing pin blocking plunger)


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

That technolgy is a bit out dated. Have you ever tired a Sig?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

If you want to get really, really technical and picky, if the pistol in question is not "mil spec" it is not really a 1911 or 1911A1, but merely a look alike.
If'n it ain"t like John Moses Browning designed it and like it was adopted by the US Government in 1911, or as modified in 1924, or any changes made by Colt after Browning's death it is a pretender. A wannabe. A clone. A variant.

But, since everyone uses the number 1911 to describe any "1911 like" pistol, it seems to be here to stay as a part of our American language.
And I will not begrudge anyone that uses it.
But I do retain the right to be an old curmudgeon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Excuse me for a bit.
I have to go fondle my Colt Series 70 Government Model MkIV.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

I qualled on them in the Navy but I never understood the love affair for them. They were great guns for their time.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

keith9365 said:


> I qualled on them in the Navy but I never understood the love affair for them. They were great guns for their time.


They are the best combat handguns ever designed.
I'm talking battlefield conditions, not a quick little self defense situation on a Saturday night. Combat versus gun fight.

I have quite a few firearms. The last two that I would ever get rid of are my M1 Garand and my Colt Government Model. These two designs have stood the ultimate tests, and did not fail.
Did you know a 1911 45 ACP was used by a parachuting American pilot to shoot down a Jap Zero he thought was going to machine gun him?


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

I read that story!


rice paddy daddy said:


> They are the best combat handguns ever designed.
> I'm talking battlefield conditions, not a quick little self defense situation on a Saturday night. Combat versus gun fight.
> 
> I have quite a few firearms. The last two that I would ever get rid of are my M1 Garand and my Colt Government Model. These two designs have stood the ultimate tests, and did not fail.
> Did you know a 1911 45 ACP was used by a parachuting American pilot to shoot down a Jap Zero he thought was going to machine gun him?


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> If you want to get really, really technical and picky, if the pistol in question is not "mil spec" it is not really a 1911 or 1911A1, but merely a look alike.
> If'n it ain"t like John Moses Browning designed it and like it was adopted by the US Government in 1911, or as modified in 1924, or any changes made by Colt after Browning's death it is a pretender. A wannabe. A clone. A variant.
> 
> But, since everyone uses the number 1911 to describe any "1911 like" pistol, it seems to be here to stay as a part of our American language.
> ...


OK,, So all my 1911s (I have collected a few) are Colts all but one. Are my later model Colts "A clone. A variant."?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> OK,, So all my 1911s (I have collected a few) are Colts all but one. Are my later model Colts "A clone. A variant."?


Since the original 1911 was a Colt, designed by a Colt employee (John Browning), any design change made by Colt after the year 1911 still qualify. Such as the Colt Commander, or Colt Officers Model.
That is why I included "or any changes made by Colt after Browning's death" in my statement.

I have two Colts, and a RIA Government Model. IF my Colt parts will interchange with the RIA, then it too is a true 1911. Just like the non-Colt manufacturers who produced them under contract for the military. Singer parts will interchange with Remington Rand and Colt.

I have not gotten around to see if things like the barrel, slide, etc of my RIA will swap with my full size Colt.

But, this is all minutia in the grand scheme of things. If that Canadian company (I forget the name) wants to call their double stack double action a 1911 because it LOOKS like one, that's up to them. But I know better.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

I never tried to put a 9mm barrel or anything related onto my dads 1911 but it did take a Colt Ace 22 kit just fine.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> They were the best combat handguns ever designed for use in their day.


FIFY. :tango_face_wink:

You don't find them hanging on the legs of our boys in the sandbox, and for good reason.
Times change, technology changes, engagement areas change. What worked well before isn't necessarily still the best option.
Hence the reason we now see Berettas, SIGs, Glocks, and even H&Ks being toted. Where one fails, another works. Where one works, another fails.

JMB's design was indeed ingenious for its time, and for many decades after. Credit where credit is due.
But there will always be a new "best".


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> FIFY. :tango_face_wink:..................But there will always be a new "best".


Sometimes though, . . . that new "best" can be the product of the bigger bribe, . . . favorite congressional lackey, . . . or another politician thinking a 15 ounce, double stack, double barrel, blowback designed 9mm machine pistol carrying a 40 round magazine of double frangible rounds using eco friendly biodegrading cases is the way to go. All him and his moron buddies need to do is sneak it into some appropriations bill for the replacement of nesting areas for the Arizona sea gull.

May God bless,
Dwight

(sarcasm off)


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> FIFY. :tango_face_wink:
> 
> You don't find them hanging on the legs of our boys in the sandbox, and for good reason.
> Times change, technology changes, engagement areas change. What worked well before isn't necessarily still the best option.
> ...


I think you will find them hanging on the leg (waist) of any number of Special Forces members. :tango_face_wink:


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> FIFY. :tango_face_wink:
> 
> You don't find them hanging on the legs of our boys in the sandbox, and for good reason.
> Times change, technology changes, engagement areas change. What worked well before isn't necessarily still the best option.
> ...


I stand by my statement.
From the mud of WWI trench fighting, to the fetid jungles of the South Pacific and Vietnam where clothes and skin rot right off the body, to being filled with sand and salt water during hundreds of beach landings. To the Battle of the Bulge and Korea where temps hit 40 below zero and lubricants congealed into solids.
The 1911A1 was there, and never failed.

Now, I don't follow news on Glocks or any other pistol of that type, but has anybody frozen one to minus 40 degrees Fahrenheit and fired it? Did it function?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I stand by my statement.
> From the mud of WWI trench fighting, to the fetid jungles of the South Pacific and Vietnam where clothes and skin rot right off the body, to being filled with sand and salt water during hundreds of beach landings. To the Battle of the Bulge and Korea where temps hit 40 below zero and lubricants congealed into solids.
> The 1911A1 was there, and never failed.
> 
> Now, I don't follow news on Glocks or any other pistol of that type, but has anybody frozen one to minus 40 degrees Fahrenheit and fired it? Did it function?


Actually, yes...
https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/05/23/glock-17-torture-test-ocean/


> Another G17 adventure I remember with fondness was when I took it to Alaska to see how it performed in sub-zero temperatures. On the day of the test, it was 40 degrees below zero in Kenai, Alaska. The camera had to be rushed into a special warm-up shed between frames to prevent the motor-drive and light-meter batteries from dying. Yet, the test Glock went through the entire 750-round test without a single stoppage.
> 
> Not impressed? Well, perhaps you'll reconsider when I tell you the test format. It consisted of rapidly shooting the pistol until it was empty, quickly inserting a fresh magazine, then dropping it into the snow and leaving it there for 20 minutes. I then retrieved the pistol and attempted to fire. Now are you impressed? I certainly was.


Same guy, same story, but with more details: https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/09/glock-17-pistol-torture-test/
He happily points out *"Only the test G17, 1911s and Hi-Powers completed the program without a failure. The other pistols had from two to as many as a dozen failures. Several even failed to complete the test due to excessive ice in their trigger groups."*
Again, a testament to the 1911 design. But it isn't the only firearm capable and of dealing with extremes.

Trust me, if there is a torture test out there, some nut has put a Glock through it. That community is rabid about the durability of their guns.
Is Glock the best? For some, yes, for others, no. Pure opinion, and I don't care either way.
Is SIG? Same response.
Is Beretta, S&W, H&K, etc...?

Logically speaking, if there was a "best", then NOTHING else would bother competing because there would be nothing to improve on.
Clearly that isn't the case.
What is "best" is subjective opinion.

I stand by my statement as well.
There will always be a new "best".


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Actually, yes...
> https://www.ballisticmag.com/2018/05/23/glock-17-torture-test-ocean/
> 
> Same guy, same story, but with more details: https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/09/glock-17-pistol-torture-test/
> ...


Mine is he best..
just being fecisious. 
I love all of them.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I think that it is just a matter of adding the 9mm barrel and slide and spring, to the 1911 frame: just like it would be, when swiching it out to the .22LR. Anyway the 1911 is pretty versatle.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I stand by my statement.
> From the mud of WWI trench fighting, to the fetid jungles of the South Pacific and Vietnam where clothes and skin rot right off the body, to being filled with sand and salt water during hundreds of beach landings. To the Battle of the Bulge and Korea where temps hit 40 below zero and lubricants congealed into solids.
> The 1911A1 was there, and never failed.
> 
> Now, I don't follow news on Glocks or any other pistol of that type, but has anybody frozen one to minus 40 degrees Fahrenheit and fired it? Did it function?


That is pretty well how I see things, the 1911 is one of the best guns there is.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Another pissing contest.....:tango_face_wink: I do not yet own a 1911, but did carry one during Desert Storm. My so called security blanket on an M1A1 tank was a Remington Rand 1911 that had seen many better days.
I will likely own one some day and have tinkered with buying one, but do not have one yet. Last handgun I bought was a CZ-75B. Another excellent combat hand gun.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

RedLion said:


> Another pissing contest.....:tango_face_wink: I do not yet own a 1911, but did carry one during Desert Storm. My so called security blanket on an M1A1 tank was a Remington Rand 1911 that had seen many better days. I will likely own one some day and have tinkered with buying one, but do not have one yet. Last handgun I bought was a CZ-75B. Another excellent combat hand gun.


Yeah, the better days of a Remington Rand 1911, would be 1942 or so, so they would have been pretty beaten up by Desert Storm. 
And the CZ-75 is right there in Pantheon of Holy Guns; it is a great design.
[If it weren't for these whizzing contests, the days would just drag on and on; the contests add piss and vinegar, to an otherwise mundane existence.]


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

MisterMills357 said:


> Yeah, the better days of a Remington Rand 1911, would be 1942 or so, so they would have been pretty beaten up by Desert Storm.
> And the CZ-75 is right there in Pantheon of Holy Guns; it is a great design.
> And if it weren't for these whizzing contests, the days would just drag on and on; the contests add spice to an otherwise mundane existence.


I am not criticizing, just too lazy to participate in the pissing.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

RedLion said:


> I am not criticizing, just too lazy to participate in the pissing.


I know it, and I am not being a fault finder, even if I sound like it. These threads always help people, even when it seems old and stale, to all of the old timers. 
Me personally, I have a .45 1911, and I wish that I had a Beretta M92, and a Taurus M66 to boot. I am pretty flexible, when it comes to what constitutes a good gun.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I LOVE my 1911's

BUT I am very intrigued by the 2011...

SAY WHAT Slippy? A 2011??? You done smokin' something today?

No Sir BobCatTail, I have been keeping my eye on the STI International Guns 2011 Platform Pistol. Sweet! A tad bit pricey but everyone needs a goal, right? :tango_face_grin:

https://stiguns.com/
https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/sti-speed-demons-pistols/


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> Yeah, the better days of a Remington Rand 1911, would be 1942 or so, so they would have been pretty beaten up by Desert Storm.
> And the CZ-75 is right there in Pantheon of Holy Guns; it is a great design.
> [If it weren't for these whizzing contests, the days would just drag on and on; the contests add piss and vinegar, to an otherwise mundane existence.]


Actually, there were no 1911A1's made for the government after 1945. By any maker.
After Korea and Vietnam all were pretty worn out


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

My first handgun, . . . and first 1911 came off the black market, . . . streets of Saigon, . . . spring of '66, . . . 

When I rotated back, . . . left it with another swabbie, . . . I never used it, . . . but slept better knowing I had it. 

Also left my M3, . . . really hated to part with that one, . . . but didn't want to do Leavenworth. 

I've had many handguns that I've parted with, including a couple Pythons, an Anaconda, Super Redhawk, XD 45, . . . now I have a little ATI 1911 commander, . . . and today it is my "comfort" gun. Sleep better knowing I've got it and my full size Rock Island. 

May God bless,
Dwight


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## cannon (Nov 11, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> I have a question about the 1911, Does the mil spec full size 1911 9mm and a 45ACP have the same frame?
> If so can a 9mm be converted to 45ACP by switching a few parts?


Talking Colts, you can. Requires switching barrel, link, ejector, extractor and magazine. All Colt barrels are the same diameter just the bore is different. Extractor and ejector need to match the caliber and 9mm mags have same dimensions with pressed rail to guide the smaller ammo.

All you guys who prefer other pistols than Colt 1911's are right! Do not get a Colt. You will be disappointed and you will help me in my dream of owning every Colt 1911 ever made.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Actually, there were no 1911A1's made for the government after 1945. By any maker.
> After Korea and Vietnam all were pretty worn out


Ain't that what I said? I said the heyday of Remington Rand was 1942 or so. The Army .45 was a very tired, and worn out piece of junk, by the time that the Army went to Beretta. [I read somewhere, that the Army tested brand new Beretta's against those ancient .45's. Well that ain't fair!]

Anyway, with the slew of 1911 makers that are making them now, the old Army guns are little more than history. There are more 1911's produced now, than I ever dreamed would happen. I would love to have an Auto Ordnance for some strange, incomprehensible reason; I guess that I am an inveterate old school fart.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

^Moonie^ :vs_laugh:


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I LOVE my 1911's
> 
> BUT I am very intrigued by the 2011...
> 
> ...


Mighty cute. Thanks.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

MisterMills357 said:


> Ain't that what I said? I said the heyday of Remington Rand was 1942 or so. The Army .45 was a very tired, and worn out piece of junk, by the time that the Army went to Beretta. [I read somewhere, that the Army tested brand new Beretta's against those ancient .45's. Well that ain't fair!]
> 
> Anyway, with the slew of 1911 makers that are making them now, the old Army guns are little more than history. There are more 1911's produced now, than I ever dreamed would happen. I would love to have an Auto Ordnance for some strange, incomprehensible reason; I guess that I am an inveterate old school fart.





AquaHull said:


> ^Moonie^ :vs_laugh:


Do you mean a follower of the Reverend Moon? It has been a while since I heard that used in any context.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Auto Ordnance aka Khar Arms makes a faithful reproduction of a USGI 1911.
I have fired one and it worked fine.
I have an AO M1 Carbine that is an exact copy of an early war example. Flat bolt, L peep sight, cross bolt safety, proper barrel band, proper early magazine release. And it is a great shooter.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Auto Ordnance aka Khar Arms makes a faithful reproduction of a USGI 1911.
> I have fired one and it worked fine.
> I have an AO M1 Carbine that is an exact copy of an early war example. Flat bolt, L peep sight, cross bolt safety, proper barrel band, proper early magazine release. And it is a great shooter.


I have been ridiculed for saying that AO was a good gun, it was on some forum or other. I informed the guy that AO was an original supplier of 1911's to the Army; but that did not impress him.
He was an arm chair commando or something; plus I said that the GI Spec model is what I meant; and I guess that sunk me in his eyes. It would be a great house or carry gun IMHO.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

AO is owned by a Moonie's Sun (sic)

My AO Kahrbine works well. The CT40, CW9 and PM9 work as designed


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> I have been ridiculed for saying that AO was a good gun, it was on some forum or other. I informed the guy that AO was an original supplier of 1911's to the Army; but that did not impress him.
> He was an arm chair commando or something; plus I said that the GI Spec model is what I meant; and I guess that sunk me in his eyes. It would be a great house or carry gun IMHO.


You will not go wrong buying an Auto Ordnance GI Spec 1911. They are good, solid pistols. 
Khar Arms bought the AO name. The original AO produced 1911's and BAR's for the military in WW2. And I could be wrong (probably am) but I think they also made the M1-A version of the Thompson sub machine gun.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> You will not go wrong buying an Auto Ordnance GI Spec 1911. They are good, solid pistols.
> Khar Arms bought the AO name. The original AO produced 1911's and BAR's for the military in WW2. And I could be wrong (probably am) but I think they also made the M1-A version of the Thompson sub machine gun.


If I live long enough {I am 63, and it poor health} I fully intend on getting an Auto Ordnance GI .45 & a stainless steel Taurus .357 with a 4 inch barrel. Then I am getting a carry permit, and I will have one of those guns on me, most of the time. 
I already have my load picked out for the .45, Georgia Arms has a great 185 JHP +P, and it looks like a duplicate of a Remington load, from the 1990's. With the .357, I am going to use CCI Blazer ammo. Or something from Georgia Arms.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I have owned many 1911s Colt, Kimber, Para, Springfield, Taurus, and Girsan. My favorite was a stainless Springfield with adjustable sights.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> You will not go wrong buying an Auto Ordnance GI Spec 1911. They are good, solid pistols.
> Khar Arms bought the AO name. The original AO produced 1911's and BAR's for the military in WW2. And I could be wrong (probably am) but I think they also made the M1-A version of the Thompson sub machine gun.


Here you go, or am I violating some rule for marginal people???
This Thompson is mine, not a web pic, have had it for 40 years, my mistake, 51 years.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> Here you go, or am I violating some rule for marginal people???
> This Thompson is mine, not a web pic, have had it for 40 years.


Beautiful. What a piece of history.
Just for grins, I visited a couple NFA dealer sites.
OTB Firearms has a transferable West Hurley M1A for $21, 995.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> I have a question about the 1911, Does the mil spec full size 1911 9mm and a 45ACP have the same frame?
> If so can a 9mm be converted to 45ACP by switching a few parts?


In case you are interested . . .

.45 1911 Auto Builders Kit, All Parts Less Frame - Includes New Slide

Sarco has the parts to go from a .45 to 9mm or the other way, . . . all you provide is the frame.

Actually if a guy wanted to have both, . . . this is a pretty good price to add the other option, . . .

And they are not a bad company to deal with.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

In the pre Brady bill days the Norinco 1911 .45 caliber sold real cheap . I never purchased one but from what others that did claimed they were outstanding copies.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> In the pre Brady bill days the Norinco 1911 .45 caliber sold real cheap . I never purchased one but from what others that did claimed they were outstanding copies.


Yep. Norinco firearms are banned from import.
I understand they make a nice M14 for about half the price of Springfield.

My SKS is a Norinco. And simply becaause they can not be imported anymore, the price today reflects this.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

We import EVERYTHING else from the Chicoms, why not some NORINCO'S?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Slippy said:


> We import EVERYTHING else from the Chicoms, why not some NORINCO'S?


Because when politicians (Democrats and RINOs) want to get tough with China or Russia they ban firearms importation. Killing two birds with one stone so to speak. They brag they were tough internationally and that they did something about gun violence. Wing dings!


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

While I believe that Rice Paddy Daddy is indeed correct on just what is Browning's and what is not, you have to look at all the variants and wonder just whose ox is being gored.

What we all believe is a "1911" was actually invented in 1905. The year 1911 is that date that the pistol made it's way into our military--and it didn't work in every hand. Hence the new and improved 1923 version. Then came the Roaring Twenties when Chicago thugs brazenly tore up the city in "goon cars" that were actually armor plated commercial automobiles. The FBI needed 'stopping power,' and the .38 Super was invented. I believe this is when "throating" was tried.

As WWII progressed, other issues arose. A major facelift began in 1942 and never really ended. That phase actually bled into the Vietnam war.

By this time, both Browning and his apprentice (who actually finished the design of The Hi-Power) were gone. So what's the "real 1911,' and where did the parental patronage end?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Model 1905 is not the same as the Model 1911.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Yep. Norinco firearms are banned from import.


When did this happen? I remember when a buddy of mine--with several kids--built his entire armory on Norinco firearms. He had a gravel pit by his house where I would fire my real-deal Colts and he would match me with his Chicoms. Granted, they didn't have that final bit of polish, but he never had a rash of stoppages. This was also a time when we reloaded everything, even scrounged brass laying on the range.

I still have 1/2 a bucket full of linotype 225 grain cast .452 bullets...


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

The evolved 1905 model was based on the 1904 pig report, which was the lead in justification for the 45 "rimless (AKA 45ACP).
This all was brought on by the lack of stopping power of lesser revolver cartridges used against the Filipino Moro's. 
Preferred weapons, long and short, prior to the 1905, were in the order of, Winchester 1897 riot gun, 
30/40 Craig and the Star Revolver in 45 long Colt for use in that insurrection until the 1905 arrived.
The Moro's were chest bound, charged with some morphine base or equivalent,
fanatically dedicated and armed with a Bolo for close in work.
Our first Pacific encounter with the Muzslime scum, eradication needed???
Some of this may be off due to brain deterioration from age.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> The evolved 1905 model was based on the 1904 pig report, which was the lead in justification for the 45 "rimless (AKA 45ACP).
> This all was brought on by the lack of stopping power of lesser revolver cartridges used against the Filipino Moro's.
> Preferred weapons, long and short, prior to the 1905, were in the order of, Winchester 1897 riot gun,
> 30/40 Craig and the Star Revolver in 45 long Colt for use in that insurrection until the 1905 arrived.
> ...


Yes.
Extensive testing on cows at the Chicago stockyards in 1904, looking for a cartridge equal in power to the 45 Colt but adapatable to a semi automatic pistol, is how the 45ACP was developed.
In 1906 bids were put out, Savage and Colt were the finalists to take part in testing which took several years to complete. In 1911 the final test was completed and the Colt design adopted.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The Model 1905 is not the same as the Model 1911.


Yes, I know. But it became the "working model" for what we call the 1911.

Rumor has it that Browning never really liked the way things turned out, and intended to improve his design in Hi-Power. He died before it was done and a student finished the work.

I've wandered--along with other firearm historians--if the the 1911 was just an attempt to gain favor with the military purchasing bureaucracy who wanted a large caliber handgun due to failures in the Philippines. At one time during that war, old SAA revolvers were issued to troops. The locals were chewing some type of stimulant and pulling themselves forward on bayonets to kill our soldiers.

The 1905 was what people might call a "tool room" pistol. Browning got it to work, and now had something to sell.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> I've wandered--along with other firearm historians--if the the 1911 was just an attempt to gain favor with the military purchasing bureaucracy who wanted a large caliber handgun due to failures in the Philippines. At one time during that war, old SAA revolvers were issued to troops. The locals were chewing some type of stimulant and pulling themselves forward on bayonets to kill our soldiers.


As our doughboys were to find out in the trenches of 1918, it was a damn good thing we had a large caliber, hard hitting, handgun caliber, and not George Luger's 9MM Parabellum.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

A history of the 1911, from the pages of American Rifleman.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/3/7/colt-history-a-look-back-at-the-1911/

A more in depth article on development, including why John Browning rejected his previous designs, the Model 1900/1902, the Model 1905 which he tweaked a bit to make the 1907, before abandoning that two-link barrel locking design altogether as not strong enough for a large caliber. His new design, the 1909, was what would be the basis of the 1911.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/5/24/the-trials-of-the-m1911/

Enjoy!


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Thanks, RPD. I'm afraid my 1911 platform now is a 3-inch Kimber .45 ACP. I used to carry an Officers ACP and a Detonics, so this pistol "feels" about the same to me.

Lately I've been lugging a SIG P238. The function is close enough so I do not have to think.

I did buy the .22LR Compact Conversion for the Kimber. I have not shot it yet. We've lost entry into the gravel pits due to the highway construction boys needing gravel. Gander Mountain closed here and with that, a close indoor range. There are some clubs, but don't lots of those guys join and then sit in the "lounge"?


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