# year of hell



## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

this story is quality worth sharing 

A Year In Hell
From Selco:
OK, i wanna share with you my own experience.
(be patient with my English, i am from far away )
I am from Bosnia, and as some of you may know
it was hell here from 92-95, anyway, for 1 whole
year i lived and survived in a city of 50 000- 60
000 residents WITHOUT: electricity, fuel,running
water,real food distribution, or distribution of any
goods, or any kind of organized law or
government.The city was surrounded for 1 year
and in that city actually it was SHTF situation.
We did not have organized army or police force,
there was groups of defenders, actually anybody
who had a gun, fight for his own house and his
own family.
Some of us was better prepared, but most of
families had food for couple of days, some of us
had pistol, few owned AK-47 when all started.
Anyway, after one month or two, gangs started
with their nasty job,hospital looked like butchery,
police force vanished, 80 percent of hospital staff
gone home.
I was lucky, my family was big in that time (15
members in one big house, 5-6 pistols, 3
Kalashnikov s) so we lived and survived, most of
us.
I remember US Air force dropped MRE every 10
days (god bless USA for that) as help for
surrounded city, it just was not enough.Some of
houses had little gardens with some vegetables,
most did not.
After three months rumors started abouth first
deaths from starvation,deaths from low
temperatures, we stripped every door , window
frame from abandoned houses for heating, i
burned all my own furniture for heating, lot of
people died from diseases, mostly from bad water
(two of my family members), we used rain water
for drink, several times i ate pigeons, once i ate
rat.
Money did not worth sh..
we traded things, black market worked, few
examples: for 1 corned beef can you could have
woman for couple of hours(sounds bad, but it
was reality) i remember, most of that womans
were just desperate mothers, candles,
lighters,antibiotics,fuel,batteries, rifle ammo and
of course food, we fight like animals for that.
In situation like that lot of things change, most
of people turned to monsters, it was ugly.
Strength was in the numbers, if you were alone in
the house, you ve been probably robbed and
killed, no matter how well armed.
Anyway, war ended, again thanks to America (and
again god bless USA for that)
It is not important witch side had right in that
war.
It was almost 20 years ago, but believe me, for
me it was just like yesterday, i remember
everything, and i think i learned a lot.
Me and my family are prepared now,i am well
armed, stocked and educated.
It is not important what going to happen,
earthquake,war, tsunami,aliens terrorists,
important thing is that something gonna be.
And from my expirience, you can not survive
alone, strength is in the numbers, be close with
your family, prepare with them, choose your
friends wisely and prepare with them too.
And at the end, this is my first post, and my
English is not so good, so don t judge me too
hard. ”
Q: How did you get around safely?
Actually city was broken in something like lot of
street communities, in my street (15 or 20
houses) we organized patrols (5 armed man every
night) to watch on gangs or enemies.
We traded things between people in that street, 5
miles from my street there was one street with
something like organized traders, but it was to
dangerous to go there, it worked only during the
nighttime (during the day it was sniper alley) and
you had more chance to be robed there than to
trade, i used that street only 2 times, and belive
me, only when i am really need something bad.
Q: What about wood? It looked like there are
many forests around your city, why did you have
to burn doors and furniture?
First, thank you for your questions, i did not
expect this amount of interest for my post.
I ll be glad to share lot of things with you guys
beecause i want to learn lot of things from you.
Anyway:
Bosnia have lot of woods and forests when you
check map, but i lived in city closer to the
croatian border, more to the south, i don t want
to mention name of the city, but if you check
map, south part of my country closer to croatia
is all in rock.
Yes we had some trees in my city, parks, fruit
trees, but most of the city is building and
houses” but belive me all trees in the city is going
to be burned very fast when you dont have
eletricity for cooking and heating. After that all
what you have is furniture, doors, wooden floors…
(and belive me that stuff is burning too fast)
There was almost no car use in town because:
most of the roads jammed with ruins, abandoned
cars, destroyed houses stuff like that, and petrol
was like gold.
If i needed to go somewhere i almost always
used night time, never go alone but also never go
in big group (2-3 man maybe), always armed,
very fast, always in shadows, trough ruins, rarely
openly on the street, actually always hiding.
We did not have suburbs and farmers, in suburbs
were enemy army, we were surrounded with
enemy army, and inside town you did not know
who is your enemy.
And yes, there were organized groops of gangs,
10-15 people, sometimes even 50, but also there
were normal people like you and me, fathers,
granddads, decent folks, who robed and killed,
there was not too much good and bad guys,
most of us was gray, ready for everything.
Q: Did you prep and what kind of skills did you
need?
Of course you can ask.
We use what we had, we was not prepared for
that situation,we did not know for prepping.
So you can imagine in some aspects we go back
in stone age, actually in most of .
We just used everything what we had, one
example, i had in my propan(or butan i am not
sure) stowe big bottle, cylinder (i am not sure is
that right word), and i did not use it for cooking
or heating, it was to valuable, i manage to built
(fix) that bottle with my friend so i can attach a
hose on some kind of ventil (sorry my english is
going down here) so i can fill those disposable
lighters,(they are not disposable if you knowhow
to) those lighter worth a small fortune.
To make story short, somebody bring me empty
lighter to me and i fill that lighter with gas,
usually i took one can for that or one candle or
whatewer he can offer me.
I hope you understand my example, my english is
poor on some things.
one more example, i am a registered nurse, in
time like that, my knowledge was my thing for
trade.
And yes, be trained and educated, in times like
that it worth a fortune if you know how to fix
things, all your goods is going to be exhausted
one day, but your specific knowledge can be your
food.
I mean learn to fix things (shoes or people,
whatewer you can)
My neighbor use to know how to make some
kind of oil for oil lamps( oil in glass, peace of
rope) and he was not hungry, he never show me
how he made that oil ”
i belive he use some tree behind his house and
small amount of disel, i don t know.
My point is learn things, people always need
somebody who know to fix things.
It was not survival movie, it was ugly, we did
what we have to do to survive.
Nobody wins, we just survived, with a lot of bad
dreams.
Q: Wasn’t it religious, the war?
Sorry man wrong info, that was not Cristian vs
Muslim war, it was civil war, with lot of
switching between sides.
And sorry i am not to go in to the politics, i dont
care to much for that, i am not going into
religious stories, i mean i believe in God as higher
power, and I am trying to live by his laws, i am
not belong to any dogma, Muslim or Christian.
Q: Who was your support group?
My group was only my family, my blood (relatives
like uncles, grandmother…), in my street and in my
town trips i had some close friends, but my best
friends was my family. I never take stranger in my
close group.
Q: If you had three months to prepare today,
what would you do?
If i have extra three months to prepare?
Hmmm, probably run overseas 
Joke
OK, Now i am very well aware how things can go
very bad in very short time so i have food,
hygiene, energy etc. supply for 6 months, i live in
apartment with some improved security, i have
house with shelter in a village some 5 miles from
my apartment, in that house also supply for 6
months, that village small community, most of
them are my relatives,most of them are prepared
(they learned that from war), i have four kind of
fire weapons with 2000 bullets for each (sorry,
can not go in details, laws are different here for
rifles).
I have big garden with that house and some good
knowledge about gardening and farming.
I think i have knowledge now to smell trouble,
you know when everybody is saying that
everything is going to be fine you somehow know
that is everything going to fall apart.
I think i have strength to do everything what it
takes to keep me and my family alive, because
when everything is going to sh.., be sure, you are
going to do some bad things to save your kid.
You don t want to be hero, you want to survive
with your family.
I am nurse, also i am paramedic (US standards)
And i am willing to learn from all of you.
One man survivor, no chance ( OK it is my
opinion) no matter how well armed and prepared,
at the end you gonna die, i ve seen that, many
times. Family groups or closest friend with lot of
preparing and lots of different knowledge, i
believe that is best.
Q: What items should we stockpile?
Thank you
Well depends, i quess if you stock only one thing
you are not going to survive, unless you want to
survive like robber, then you need only gun and
lot od ammo.
I believe besides ammo food hygiene and energy
things (batteries etc.) you need to focus on small
things for trade, pocket knives, lighters, flints.
Also LOT of alcohol, kind that can stay long, i
mean stuff like whiskey and that, does not
important what kind, you can have cheapest kind,
it is very good thing for trade in desperate time.
Also lack of hygiene things killed a lot of people,
i ve seen that.
You gonna need to have some simple things, like
for example lot of garbage bags, i mean a lot


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

many uses for that, and a LOT of duct tape,
many many uses for that.
In case of weapon keep it simple, i mean now i
always carry Glock 45 with me, because i like that
gun, but it is not usual gun and usual caliber
here, so i also have two 7,62 mm TT russian
pistols hidden, because almost everybody have
that gun here and a lot ammunition.
I don t like Kalashnikov, but here there is that rifle
on almost every 3rd house so…
Most of the time i collect my water from roof in
4 big barrels during the war, then cooked to
desinfect, we also had river in that town , too
poluted but if you can t choose…
I don t think i am expert, i am here to learn.
I quess it depends how far you going to go to
survive with your actions, you need to be
prepared to do some ugly things.
Oh yes it changed my perspective on life, i know
now that bad things can happens, and on more
important thing, actually i believe it is most
important: I don’t anymore believe government
and authority, not at all. When they really doing
their best to assure you that everything going to
be fine, you can be sure that something bad is
happening.
Do not just believe, research.
Q: What about the civil war…and the religious
fighting? Did gold and silver help much and how
did you get the alcohol and other supplies?
Hello to all
It is me again
I believe in some point this discussion gone
wrong way, and no i am not offended, everybody
have right for opinion, so here is few of my
opinions:
It was a civil war, yes there was a great influence
of religion, but somebody mention “what did you
do with people of other religion?”
Well in my family there are people with different
religious beliefs so what do you mean with that?
I ll try to explain you simple; it was an attackers
and defenders, lot of switching sides, civil war.
War ended without winners, it ended with truce,
thanks mostly to USA.It was the wrong war,
wrong reasons. I did not fight for religion or
ethnicity, i fought to keep my family and myself
alive.
For last 15 years we have peace, we live with
people who use to be our enemies, i do not to
want to have war and enemy again because
ethnicity or religion or any other reason.
Please do not try to generalize anything about
that war, there was not good and bad side, we all
suffered and we all try to live together again.
And yes every side did bad things, and every side
had booth good and bad guys.
I am here for one and only reason- survival, i
want to learn, and i can share some useful stuff
with you.
I don t think about your religious beliefs, your
ethnicity or your politic opinion.
Few words about my city before war, it was a
usual Bosnian town, normal life, decent people,
schools, theaters, parks, college, airport, crime
rate very low, town like most of the smaller
towns in USA (i think). I was a young man, just
like any of you maybe.
Now very important think: i am not here to
discuss about war reasons, or sides, religion or
anything similar.
Thanks to the war, in my town was REAL SHTF
situation, and we can discuss only about that,
only that is important.
You have a lot internet pages, you can learn
everything about that war, and you can choose
side if you want.
Ok that's it
About survival.
I don t know about other people on this forum,
but i have lot of alcohol stacked now.
At the beginning of war tank grenade smashed
front wall of small distillery (alcohol factory)
close to my house, so we took something around
500 liters of rakia (it is something like bosnian
whiskey, i guess, it made from grape, very strong)
It was great stuff for trading, people used alcohol
a lot, desperate times i think, we also use it for
disinfection.
About hygiene, cups and plates, paper or plastic,
you gonna need a LOT, i know, we did not have it
at all.
My opinion that hygiene things is more important
maybe than food, you can easily shoot pigeon, if
you have grandmother she may know some
eatable plants on nearest small hill (my
experience) but you can not shoot hand sanitizer
Water purifying pills, all kind of cleaning stuff,
sanitizers, lot of soap, bleach, gloves, masks, all
disposable, take very good care about first aid
training, learn how to treat smaller cuts, burns or
even gunshot wound, there is not hospital, even if
you found doctor somewhere he probably do not
have any meds, or you do not have stuff to pay
him.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Belive me with good knowledge and good amount
of meds you are gonna be rich.
About gold and silver, yes, me personally gave all
my gold for ammunition in that time, but it did
not worth too much.
About pets, i did not have it, i did not notice a lot
pets in that time, did somebody ate it? I don t
know, probably.
About small family, hmm, not good, usualy few
smaller families get together in biggest house and
stay together, all relatives (my case)
Small family or single man, not good for survive
in town SHTF, maybe in wilderness (i don t have
expirience in that) Even if you stay low profile,
hidden in your house with lot of food etc, sooner
or later mob will come, and you have maybe have
one or two guns, very hard. I agree with low
profile policy, it is very important not to attract
people with anything, but when they come, you
need to have numbers, people and guns, best
people is your family.
About moving trough the city: always night time
as i mentioned, never alone, 2-3 man, very fast,
never attract with anything, look like everybody
else, if most folks look desperate, poor, dirty you
need to look same, there is no need that
everybody know you have good amount of food,
ammo , clean cloths and everything else back at
home. Look and act like everybody else.
When somebody attack you or your family then
you need to show that you are very ready.
I never walked in big groups,in that time and that
situation big group is gang.
Now, this is all my experience, it was then, i did a
lot of mistakes, i am not expert, i am here just
like any of you, to learn and share.
For example i don t know too much about
wilderness survival, i am here to check it.
Oh yes, few things to the Sedoy: my wife is
different ethnicity, and she is also a Catholic, i
am not, and to answer you : no i am not going to
shoot her.
Q: What happened to those who died? Where
did people get firewood?
Well, who ever died or get killed in that period,
did not get proper funeral.
Folks used used every peace of free land, close
to house for burial, sometimes even in the garden,
2-3 city parks turned to graveyards,after war
most of them are exhumed and properly buried.
There was not noting like burning bodies or
anything similar, as far as i know.
Oh one more interesting thing about fire, some
people use to go few miles during the night only
to find fire somewhere so they can fire peace of
wood and bring it home, and start fire for cooking
or heating, lighters and matches was really
precious, and most of the folks did not have
enough firewood do keep always fire. For most of
the people it was constant search for something,
fire,wood,food,ammo…
Q: Was salt valuable?
It was valuable yes, but not too much, for
example coffee or cigarettes worth-ed much
more.
Q What about cigarettes?
Hm, i had a lot of alcohol as i mentioned before,
i traded almost everything without any problem,
let me say it like this: consumption of alcohol
was probably 10 times more than in normal
time.Not to mention cleaning and disinfection.
On the other side you made a very good point, if
you have money and time and you have a storage
it is probably better to store cigarettes or candles
and batteries for trade, or food.
I was not prepper at that time, we did not have
time to prepare, few days before SHTF politicians
on TV stated that everything is fine, when sky fell
down we just take what you can.
Q: Tell us more about cooking and the foods you
were able to prepare. Were you concerned about
the smell getting around and alerting people that
there was food over there?
About cooking, before the SHTF i used in my
house electricity for booth, cooking and heating,
so when everything started i traded some stuff for
some kind of old wood stove, i put it in kitchen
ad fix exhaust pipe (right word?) trough hole in
wall, i use that for cooking and heating.
During the summer i cooked in my backyard
(walled fence, brick, luckily)
Concerning the smell of the food, hm, i ll try to
picture situation: no electricity, no running water,
sewage off for months, dead bodies in ruined
houses, grime and mess, believe me it was very
hard to smell something nice.
It was not like in movies, it was ugly,dirty, and
smelly.
Yes i had few problems because of cooking, only
few, but as i sad before, enough people, properly
armed and with will to defend and you can
manage most of the problems with that.
Probably situation would be different in
wilderness.
I ate mostly some kind of pancakes with local
herbs (does not require cooking oil and too much
firewood), and of course everything what i could
get and trade, rice was good to eat, not too much
firewood for that.
I think i had luck, only few times i ate funny
things like pigeons.
I always had something to trade, i guess that
saved me, and guns of course.
Q: 1. Why would the night be safer than
daytime? Outside of the obvious of being easier
to hide at night, but were the gangs more out
during the days? Also, why only small groups of
2-3? What happened to larger groups?
2. Why would you have to go out at night? For
instance, where were you going and why?
3. How did you handle the mob situation when
they came for you, or your family?
4. You mentioned trading for bullets, etc. How
much shooting were you doing during that time
and how much ammo did you have, or would like
to have had?
5. How were you able to determine who was an
enemy and who wasn’t? How did you manage to
get out there trade with people and when/where?
6. What fortifications did you do to your home
and what kind of guard, or protections did you
have in place?
7. Finally, how did you avoid snipers? What
precautions did people take against them?
First almost nobody were out during the day
because of snipers, line of defence was very
close, so whatever you have to do, you do it
during the night, trade something, look for
firewood (i can express how much this was
important in town, and hard), looking for anything,
check somebody, go to hear news (very very
important, lot of people get killed because they
go somewhere just to see what happening, or
what s new) remember, no news, no radio ,no tv,
nothing, rumors fed lot of people.
Already explained, you can stay home and die of
hunger and cold, or even infection of some small
wound or go out and risk your life, try to find –
trade anything useful
I did have situations concerning my house only, it
is no need for too much details, we had more fire
power, and brick wall.
Also we had something like street watch, people
from my street were good organized, in case of
gangs, now there were a lot shootings.
There was pretty much shooting in town, i did not
have enough weapon at the beginning, one rifle
and one pistol (ww2), maybe 100 bullets, later i
trade some things for more rifles and ammo,
remember i gave car battery for 2 rifles.
How much ammo ?
A LOT, as more as you can.
Most of the time you are not able to determine
who is enemy or friend, expect my family and few
real friend, everybody else is potential enemy.
When your friend must choose between his child
s death and your death quess who is going to
choose.
Rumors, somebody tells you that some old guy
few block away have some cans and he is looking
for ammo or whatever, you go there, as i say you
are always looking for something. Same some
people would came in my street as traders, witha
some goods.
There was something like trade street during the
night, actualy it was a big ruins of sport center,
you can go overthere and look for something or
offer something, but it was not controlled by
anyone so it was too dangerous.
It was primitive pretty much, brick wall around
house,bags of sand on windows and doors, over
that bags we used whatever you can, big pieces
of metal, stones, inside house we put all kind of
stuff on windows, only small openning left for rifle,
always 5 members of family ready for fight, one
always outside on street hidden.
Stone age situation
To avoid snipers, we stay home at day, it was not
so much night snipers, even during the night we
never walked openly on the streets if we can
avoid that, always shortcuts, trough ruins, fast
and quiet.
Q: What was your bathroom situation? Where did
you go? Did you have anything to wipe with?
Sorry ask such personal questions, but this is
something that I’ve wondered about in this type
of situation.
we used shovel and any piece of land close to
house, sounds dirty, and it is dirty, washing with
collected rainwater, sometimes go to river (most
of the time that was too dangerous) Most of the
time we did not have toilet paper, even if i had it,
i trade it.
It was a bad situation all the time.
If i can give some advice: first to prep is a
weapon and ammo, then everything else, i mean
everything, depends how much money and space
you have, if you forget something no problem
there is always somebody ready for trade, but if
you forget guns and ammo then you may not be
able to get to trading places.
I do not see big family or group of really( i mean
really) good friends as more mouth to feed, i see
them as more guns and strength, it is in people
nature to adapt.
And keep it simple and use common sense, in the
first period weak people vanished, other fight.
Go with small thing, lighters, candles, flints. It is
great idea to have fuel generator( electrical
generating unit?) but i think is better idea to have
1000 bic lighters. Fuel generator is great, but in
shtf scenario in town it is going to attract whole
army,1000 bic lighters don t take too much
space, cheap, you can always trade it for
something.
Real SHTF scenario demands completely change
of normal mindset, hard to explain, i ll try
through examples.
Q: How easy/hard was it to get weapons AFTER
the SHTF and what could you trade for weapon
and ammunition
(I remember you saying a car battery for a rifle)
and where would I go to find the people who
trade in weapons?
Hm, you re right, after the war every house here
had a weapon from war, and yes police did some
actions to take illegal weapon from population


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

pheniox,
You got to be kidding me? I could not get through two sentences of your post. Edit this immediately to a few short paragraphs before the others wake up and trash you unmercifully.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

depends from man to man i quess, lot of people
find ways to hide their weapon somewhere, just in
case.
I also have legal weapon (license), and authority
here have some thing they call it “temporary
collecting”, it is says something like : in a case
of unusual event (riots, unrest, etc) government
have right to temporary collect all legal weapon,
so i keep always in mind that, and i acted like
some people.
You know some people have legal weapon for
everyday carry( i have glock 45 and taurus 38)
but some people with legal weapon also have
illegal weapon hidden somewhere just in case
SHTF and “temporary collecting”
It is not hard to get weapon in SHTF if you have
good stuff for trade, but other thing is important,
first days of SHTF is worst in terms of chaos
and panic, maybe you not gonna have time to get
gun. And to be unarmed in chaos panic and riots
is bad.
In my case man needed car battery for radio i
think, and he had some extra rifles, so we trade.
Q: What about medical care for people who were
shot or became injured?
Wounds was mostly gunshot wounds of course,
without specialists and everything else, if
wounded manage to find doctor somewhere he
had like 30% chances to live, again it is not
movie, mostly they died, lot of died even from
minor cuts infections, i had antibiotics maybe for
3-4 treatment. Of course for my family only.
Simple things killed people, diarrhea can kill you
in a few days without meds and rehidratation,
(fluid therapy, IV) especially small kids. Lot of
fungal skin deseases,and food poisoning, we
could not do too much. Basically we treated
diseases mostly with local herbs, and if you had
wound, put rakia on it and try to find antibiotics
somewhere.
So i was good at fixing wounds in term of
emergency help, but longer procedure-bad
prognosis.
What i learned? Hygiene again, and a lot of
meds, especially antibiotics. You need to learn to
treat lot of stuff, go online, finish some training,
EMT maybe, first aid etc.
In SHTF things are different, learn how to open
IV, when to use certain drug, or antibiotics.
Get your self ANA TE (anti tetanus ) shot
injections , snake poison kit, adrenaline kit
(allergic reactions, different kinds) thick removal
kit, (thick related illness can kill you, learn how to
remove thick)…
Get in your prepper storage some reanimation kit
(simple one) like small oxygen cylinder, BVM
mask etc. It is not really hard to learn to use all
of these.
OK let s clear something, of course you can not
use anything of this in real world unless you are
certified and trained for that ( EMT, nurse,
physician ).
But in SHTF nobody ask you for license, just learn
and have in your storage big part for medical
things.
So to answer question how did i help and treat,
most of the time very poor,i help some with
resources that i have, i took food or something
else for exchange, i was badly prepared for that,
now i am what do i need to have.
Q: Did your local currency/money still hold
value? Were you still able to use money to
purchase items from other people?
No, not really, i mean sometimes you can use
foreign money if you had it to buy something,
(dollars or German marks) but even in that rare
occasion rate was unbelievable for examples 1
can of beans for 30-40 dollars (normal value was
maybe 0,50) i quess somebody had connections
with outside world, black market you know, so he
can earn lot of money.But it was very rare. Trade
was main thing to get something.
Local currency crashed very fast, in few weeks or
month maybe.
Q: How much space should I keep for alcohol
storage? What was security like?
About alcohol first, you right but you are right in
booth ways, people need alcohohol more in
desperte times then usual, so it is kind of
gambling i guess , it is very good item for trading,
i never had problems with alcohol trading and
having than problems with trading other things.
Also i am thinking about something else, maybe it
is better to fill my storage with something less
space consuming but still interesting for trade,
like batteries, antibiotics etc.
Thing is i had all that alcohol for free, i did not
buy it.I don t know about this.
In most of the situations people attack me
because they think they are stronger, they did not
know for sure what i really had.
About ammunition trade, it depends how much
ammo you are going to have, sometimes i trade
ammo for food, and in few weeks again food for
ammo, but i never never do trade at my home,
and never bigger amounts, very few people
knowed how much of anything i had in my
house.
The point is store as much of anything as you
can store (space , money) later during the
situation you ll see what is most popular,
correction ammo and guns always gonna had 1
place for me, but who knows maybe number 2 for
trading gonna be for example masks with filters.
About medical issue , i ll write in my next post
what do i have now in my medical part of
storage
Defence were very primitive, again we were not
prepared, we use what ever we could, windows
were broken, roofs mostly damaged from shelling,
all windows were blocked with something, sand
bags and rocks,every night i blocked my yard
gate with junk- rubble from the street and i use
old alluminium ladder to get over the wall, when i
come back i called somebody from house to get
me that ladders so i can move in.
Guy from my street barricaded his house
completely, if he go out at night he use a hole
that he maded in one room that is connected with
neighbor s house, and go trough his (ruined and
destroyed) house out, actually he had
secret entrance.
It may look weird to say but most secured
houses are gone first, of course we had some
very nice houses in neighborhood, with walls,
dogs, alarms, steel bars on windows, alarms. And
you can quess what happened, mob attacked
those houses first, some were defended other not,
depend how many guns and hands thea have
inside.
So i think security is great, but be sure that you
keep it low profile, forget about alarm, if you live
in town and SHTF you gonna need simple looking
non interesting secured house, with lot of guns
and ammunitions.
Just keep it low profile and not interesting.
On my apartment door now i have steel door for
security reason, but only to keep me trough first
short period of chaos, then i am moving out to
connect with bigger group of armed people
(family and friends) in the country (i hope)
Well in my case migration did not happen
because it happen very fast, other army just
closed city in ring and that s it, if you ask me
where was that army and how we did not seen
them coming, the answer is simple, that army
was an ally of army of my side and people, and
one day we woke up and figured they are enemy
now and they are closing all ways out. Politics .
It is true, one more side of civil war.
But i heard from others parts of country, and my
frends who stayed in villages in the other parts in
state, that they have much better
situations,countryside had land,corn,wheat, fruit
trees, farms etc they had enough food, it was bad,
but much better than in city.
I know one thing if we had some way out from
the town, we would use it, we did not have it.
Q: What was the situation with banks and
stores?
About banks, loans, credit cards. Complete
monetary system died for about one year , so
nothing works.
It is complex question in many ways, i ll try it to
answer it in some future posts, need much more
time and much much more space to describe it.
Even now almost 20 years later folks are at
European court suing banks, because they dont
want to admit their savings in banks, lot of
different things happened in that period , they
changed money, i mean monetary name, they
changed it 2-3 times , hyperinflation occurs, lost
of paper trails about savings, loans … i remember
some people use that situation to get rich, they
still rich ”
So i ll try to describe that in separate post.
There was a lot problems with proving people s
property after everything, for example: my father
had nice apartment and because war he must
leave it, after war ended he was at court for
about 4 years proving that apartment was his,
reasons for that were different, because politics in
that time, but also he did not have enough paper
work to prove that apartment was his (he did not
took papers from apartment when he fled, he had
more important things to care)
On the other side during the worst period, people
just moved in empty house, and that s it.
I mention rural areas in other post. As far as i
remember it was better there.
In that period there is not running vehicle,
actually i remember tank at the front line,
and Lada Niva ( check it on web) with cut of
doors and roof and installed machine gun ( i think
it was an old m53) and those two only moved
when they fired( they keep it hidden behind ruined
houses)


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

For let me call it “civilian population” there was
no moving with vehicles, streets were mostly
under rubble and unusable and fuel was too
expensive.
Not to draw attention was a big thing, about
clothing, there use to be some sort of town
defense, it was not like real military,mostly mixed
civilian clothes with part of uniforms, different
weapon, so no rules.
But as soon as go in to that things and try to talk
about two armies, their strength, war crimes,
politics i am not gonna like it any more, because
people gonna start to choose sides, and i think it
is not important for us here.
As i said before there was not organized army,
but we all been like soldiers, we had to, most of
us carry weapon and try to protect from enemy
army and robbers.
Inside the town you did not want to look fancy
because somebody shoot you and took your good
stuff, you did not want to have fancy rifle,
because probably you not gonna find ammo in
that caliber and also you are drawing attention.
So let s me try to put it this way: if SHTF
tomorrow, i will try to look like most of the
people outside, scared, desperate, confused and i
ll scream maybe, no fancy looking stuff, i ll not go
out in fancy new uniform and yell “I am here, you
are finished now looters and robbers” I ll stay low
profile, heavily armed and well prepared waiting to
see my options, even if i have to go out with all
my gear to do things i ll go in night, with best
friend or brother. Maybe sounds ridiculous, but
from my expirience it works, be wery well
prepared, but let nobody outside your house know
or see that.
No matter how good is your house security, how
good is your weapon, if people see that they have
good reason to rob you they probably rob you in
town SHTF, it is only matter of time and number
of guns.Don t ever give them reason to be
interesting for robbing. Stay uninteresting. Now
this is my opinion, maybe is not working in
different situation.
About robbing grocery store and gas stations, it
happened very very fast, as soon as shooting
started all valuable things was emptied, there vas
some effort of authority to keep it together but
everything fall apart in first weeks.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Slippy said:


> pheniox,
> You got to be kidding me? I could not get through two sentences of your post. Edit this immediately to a few short paragraphs before the others wake up and trash you unmercifully.


first, this is a plagiarized post...
second this is non fiction 
third, I refuse to edit a story that I have copied word for word, sharing to the masses written by a man that English is his second language 
forth, if that involves some backlash, read the entire story!!!


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm sure there is a fantastic message in there but it reads like war and piece was translated by a Nigerian banker and the short line format makes my eyes hurt. That's the kind of thing I'd prefer a link to so I could print out the PDF and read it on the Processed Nutrient Bio-Mass Removal Device (shitter). That's like a three, maybe four dump saga.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

pheniox-- No wonder you can't get a gun.

GT,
Excellent summary my good man.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Slippy said:


> pheniox-- No wonder you can't get a gun.
> 
> GT,
> Excellent summary my good man.


it will take ya a good hour to read, or takes no time not to read

and can't get a gun because some f wit shot up a group of kids, kinda like sandy hook...

everyone that has actually read this (1st time or 100th time) learns something out of it (well not everyone), the questions repeat themselves a lot... something to do with the Americans asking the questions...

enjoy the morning read, or don't read it and move on...


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

pheniox17 said:


> it will take ya a good hour to read, or takes no time not to read
> 
> and can't get a gun because some f wit shot up a group of kids, kinda like sandy hook...
> 
> ...


You lost your rights to bear arms because you the people voted incompetent fools to run your government. Your country's children were brainwashed and propagandized and the water began to boil but the frog did not jump out.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Bosnia is just one example of why we should close down the UN.
UN troops from Denmark sat around smoking dope while people were massacred.
Enough on that subject some of us will have a real personal view of what was going on there.
It is a beautiful snowy day I am going to enjoy it going to town with my US made .38 S&W .
in my waist band . Should not need it but if I do.
God bless America thanks for the 2nd amendment and to heck with anyone that don't like it.

" President Bill Clinton for fear of creating a rift between the US and the aforementioned countries. Nonetheless, the United States used both "black" C-130 transports and back channels including Islamist groups to smuggle weapons to Bosnian-Muslim forces via Croatia."


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## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

I was in Bosnia in 95. It was a BEAUTIFUL place!! I have always liked the Eastern European area... Very pretty women also!


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

i read the whole thing and appreciate it for what it is.
opportunity often comes in overalls.

great read, very eye opening for civilians. now bic lighter stock will rise 100%. haha
thanks for the read. it was worth it for me.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

shotlady said:


> i read the whole thing and appreciate it for what it is.
> opportunity often comes in overalls.
> 
> great read, very eye opening for civilians. now bic lighter stock will rise 100%. haha
> thanks for the read. it was worth it for me.


Allot of good info. If it is too much work for some people to work through it make s me wonder how much work they are willing to do if the SHTF. Just wondering. I can't remember where, but I have heard before from the survivor of a SHTF situation that BIC lighters were worth their wait on gold. Hard to believe that so many people don't have the means to even start a fire.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

pheniox17 said:


> first, this is a plagiarized post...
> second this is non fiction
> third, I refuse to edit a story that I have copied word for word, sharing to the masses written by a man that English is his second language
> forth, if that involves some backlash, read the entire story!!!





pheniox17 said:


> it will take ya a good hour to read, or takes no time not to read
> 
> and can't get a gun because some f wit shot up a group of kids, kinda like sandy hook...
> 
> ...


It takes less than an hour to read. 
Thank you for taking the time to post that, and thank you for posting it the way you did. You did it the right way.
A lot of good information to take away from that. It cements some thoughts I've had about how things will go when the SHTF. If folks can't figure it out because it is to tough for them to figure out, tough shit for them. Those are the types that will be dying in the streets anyway.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

I will say I thought it was great reading. This pretty much the kind of situation we and our neighbor are preparing for our homes are concrete block and stucco so they are pretty solid. We have had hurricane widows installed, these windows will stop a 2x4 shot at them at 150 mph and metal shutters for the doors. enough food and water for a year if used sparingly and several ways of cooking. And of course the guns and ammo. we will survive.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

I have seen this before and it has a lot of good information. I like how he set a business supplying goods for his family by refilling butane lighters. You never know what it could be that decides life or death in a situation. Think outside the box.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Figuring out what people will need and having enough of that to trade will keep you alive as long as you don't tell how you do it or where you get it. If you concentrate on people's desire for relief or a modicum of normality you will be able to survive. Vices become a weakness that can be exploited. Cigarettes, alcohol, even drugs (though you have higher risk with drugs) can bring a moment of normalcy to an otherwise inverted world. Coffee, chocolate, wine, and candy can make a special occasion all the better when those things are unobtainium.


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

It is not so much what created the situation but it is the aftermath you must live with, the aftermath is what we are prepping for.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

pheniox17 said:


> it will take ya a good hour to read, or takes no time not to read
> 
> and can't get a gun because some f wit shot up a group of kids, kinda like sandy hook...
> 
> ...


Thank you Pheniox. You're right this has a lot we can learn from. I would love to be able to sit down and talk with someone like this since he has so much he can teach us. My grandparents lived through the depression and I was always bugging them for stories about what they did to survive. Their stories were not as dramatic as this one, but similar in that they did what they could to survive. We could learn so much from people like this and hopefully can before it's to late to do anything about it.


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

> "give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime" cpt archer star trek enterprise


you know, I just saw this. I don't know who Capt. Archer is, but Jesus said that first.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Arizona Infidel said:


> you know, I just saw this. I don't know who Capt. Archer is, but Jesus said that first.


yea trying to mix a little sifi into a signature... I'm one of "those" that mix it around a bit

this is one hell of a story, good to see some took the time to read it, it's a shame what happened over there, but knowledge like this, is best shared


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

the author of year of hell writes articles here if interested

SHTF School - Real Life Survival Experiences


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Good read, a wake up call to me, and should be for all others. I remember a post a month or so back people actually wanting a SHTF to occur. I think some people believe it will be one big happy camping trip, and give them a reason to play with all their "toys". Believe me, as messed up as our country seems to be, and seems to be going, YOU DO NOT WANT A SHTF to happen. I read what the guy and his countrymen went through, I don't want it for any of us here in the USA, we all better take heed in how bad things can get. Be prepared in case things do go bad, but do everything we can ensure we never allow our country to go through what the OP wrote about. For us, and more important for our children and children's children.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Here is a link to another author that survived an economic collapse in Argentina. His smugness and arrogance make it a difficult read but there is knowledge to be gained from his experience.

The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse: Fernando "Ferfal" Aguirre: 9789870563457: Amazon.com: Books


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Slippy said:


> You lost your rights to bear arms because you the people voted incompetent fools to run your government. Your country's children were brainwashed and propagandized and the water began to boil but the frog did not jump out.


Really Slippy? Watch the news much? We live in a country with Obama and his henchmen and liberals chipping away at our rights daily, people we voted into office (not me, and perhaps not you, but enough to put them in office) and you make such a statement?
There was an old saying where I grew up "better sweep off your own porch, before pointing fingers at your neighbors".


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Moonshinedave said:


> Good read, a wake up call to me, and should be for all others. I remember a post a month or so back people actually wanting a SHTF to occur. I think some people believe it will be one big happy camping trip, and give them a reason to play with all their "toys". Believe me, as messed up as our country seems to be, and seems to be going, YOU DO NOT WANT A SHTF to happen. I read what the guy and his countrymen went through, I don't want it for any of us here in the USA, we all better take heed in how bad things can get. Be prepared in case things do go bad, but do everything we can ensure we never allow our country to go through what the OP wrote about. For us, and more important for our children and children's children.


i don't know what to say, people wishing for a shtf situation so they get to play with their toys..... I'm lost for words, apart from go back to playing call of duity.....


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Meangreen said:


> Here is a link to another author that survived an economic collapse in Argentina. His smugness and arrogance make it a difficult read but there is knowledge to be gained from his experience.
> 
> The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse: Fernando "Ferfal" Aguirre: 9789870563457: Amazon.com: Books


thanks for the link bro, add to my read list


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## Titan6 (May 19, 2013)

I read the whole story excellent read and great information thanks for the posting pheniox17..


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Everybody always believes it can't happen where they live until it does.


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## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

Great Read very informative it gave me lots to think about


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Pheniox,
I finally read "The Year of Hell" and what an amazing story. Thanks for posting and my apologies for my initial reaction bitching about the post being too long. I was a little cranky that morning, and I will blame it on the foolish evil government that continues to make my life difficult.
Thanks again,


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Pheniox,
> I finally read "The Year of Hell" and what an amazing story. Thanks for posting and my apologies for my initial reaction bitching about the post being too long. I was a little cranky that morning, and I will blame it on the foolish evil government that continues to make my life difficult.
> Thanks again,


water under the bridge bro, cheers


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

pheniox17 said:


> water under the bridge bro, cheers


Cheers back at you!


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

bump.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

I think it's very special that his Bug out location is a small village about five miles from town where almost everybody is related to him. It looks like he believes in safety in numbers.

And no I only skimmed it the first three times and each time I picked up something useful


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

I read the entire post Phoenix,this is something that if published on more media,it would either wake up alot of people or the naysayers would say naw,never happened, just like the lot that said nazis never killed jews.I think that if a civil war happened in the US,again, (1860's) things would never be the same.to some here after that much time the hatred still exists,as it probably does in other countries to this day. I feel for anyone that this has ever happened to like, currently the Ukraine,and many other places.good post.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

MI.oldguy said:


> I read the entire post Phoenix,this is something that if published on more media,it would either wake up alot of people or the naysayers would say naw,never happened, just like the lot that said nazis never killed jews.I think that if a civil war happened in the US,again, (1860's) things would never be the same.to some here after that much time the hatred still exists,as it probably does in other countries to this day. I feel for anyone that this has ever happened to like, currently the Ukraine,and many other places.good post.


it got me to review how I was doing things, and to be honest, hypothetically same thing happened to me when I first read it, I would be screwed and almost in the same boat as the non prepared, today, a lot better off but no where near perfect

stories like this need to be spread... but will never happen (one point this guy made was have firepower, with today's political bs... you can see it will be edited out)

I know its converted some to prepping, others ignore it but we all have choices, a civil war maybe unlikely, but so many other scenarios have the same general outcome


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## mcangus (Jun 3, 2014)

Bump because this is a great read and very informative. If anyone else has a link to a similar story from someone who went thru a SHTF event, please share.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2014)

This post information is the best i've read yet phoenix ^^ appreciate it. noted that you cant really smell cooking over corpses.


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## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

I'll throw this out as a somewhat related post.

SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: Thoughts on Urban Survival (2005)


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## 2Tim215 (Jun 19, 2014)

Just read this (4 am- couldn't sleep) So I copy pasted and edited it in Word. There are no words. SHTF books, movies are all lies, fantasy. This is as real as it gets and even if it's made up there's a something to it that makes it authentic enough to be believed. And just for that alone it's a worthwhile read, but the practical information makes it pure gold.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Someone posted a link to this about a year ago. Great read, scary but great. I think it convinced my neighbor back in Illinois to begin prepping.


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## 2Tim215 (Jun 19, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> it got me to review how I was doing things, and to be honest, hypothetically same thing happened to me when I first read it, I would be screwed and almost in the same boat as the non prepared, today, a lot better off but no where near perfect
> 
> stories like this need to be spread... but will never happen (one point this guy made was have firepower, with today's political bs... you can see it will be edited out)
> 
> I know its converted some to prepping, others ignore it but we all have choices, a civil war maybe unlikely, but so many other scenarios have the same general outcome


That's the reason I have started - civil war. The chances of it happening here are too close for comfort. Don't have any guns but I know where some are and I do have 2 bows and a crossbow and I know how to use them. Funny though, much faster and proficient with the long bow. There is no excuse to be unarmed if your government won't allow it - there are ways.


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