# FBI has a list of NRA members?



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Raise your virtual hand is this even remotely surprises you? Seems like the FBI has been getting info from the NSA.



> NRA membership being used as criteria to identify soldiers as "extremists"&#8230;


Wait. How does the FBI have a list of who the NRA members are? - The Gun Feed


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I wouldn't worry too much. For during several decades I used to target shoot with a lot of local police officers. They knew my name, they handled my firearms, and I even invited some to a party at my old home several years ago. I've had so many 4473 forms that it was easier to run a check on me than to find my phone number.

Old adage: If they wanted you, you'd be in handcuffs now...


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> I wouldn't worry too much. For during several decades I used to target shoot with a lot of local police officers. They knew my name, they handled my firearms, and I even invited some to a party at my old home several years ago. I've had so many 4473 forms that it was easier to run a check on me than to find my phone number.
> 
> Old adage: If they wanted you, you'd be in handcuffs now...


So cops were running back ground checks on you and FFL dealers were good with that when you were buying a firearm?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I simply assume they know all about me.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Denton said:


> I simply assume they know all about me.


If you come up missing, we'll know what happened to you.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

KUSA said:


> If you come up missing, we'll know what happened to you.


Lol, what would that be? Don't they have the lottery in Alabama?


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> I simply assume they know all about me.


Probably a wise way of thinking.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

They always have had a list . And ATF has a list and serial number of every firearm purchased when a back round check was done.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Since most NRA members are Christians why not file a discrimination lawsuit against the FBI?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

I'm not an NRA member. But I'm sure the gubbamint knows about me.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Lol, what would that be? Don't they have the lottery in Alabama?


Pot will probably be legal before we get a lottery.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> Pot will probably be legal before we get a lottery.


I thought every state had a lottery? Easy money for the state. I have no problem with pot being legalized either. Of course, I do have a problem with all govt being in charge of things that should be left to us.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Lottery is a giant slush fund .


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

RedLion said:


> So cops were running back ground checks on you and FFL dealers were good with that when you were buying a firearm?


I only worry about one improbable case at a time. One, I don't type that fast, and two, I'd have been put in handcuffs somewhere around +30 years ago. Here's my reasoning. I used to worry about everything and got precious little sleep. It brought me nothing.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Of course the FBI does. So do a lot of other people.
It's a matter of public record.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> They always have had a list . And ATF has a list and serial number of every firearm purchased when a back round check was done.


Nope, negative, on the background check.
Unless you live in a communist state that requires registration of firearms, or a permit to buy one, the only information specific to the gun given to the NCIS is "long gun" or hand gun."

Yes, the serial number, etc is listed on the second page of the 4473, but the only way for law enforcement to see it would be go to every gunshop in the nation and physically look at every 4473 on file.
They would not waste any time on this.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

NRA members get a magazine subscription.
Magazines are delivered by the post office.

It's not a big leap to get a full list.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Many of us have had or do have;

Birth Certificates
Social Security Numbers
Marriage Certificates
Drivers Licenses
Business Licenses
Hunting/Fishing Licenses
Concealed Carry Permit/Licenses
Mortgages
Bank Records
Tax Returns
W-2 Forms
W-4 Forms 
W-9 Forms
1099's 1098's 
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.......................................

Point is, the government knows who each and every one of us is...lain:


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Nope, negative, on the background check.
> Unless you live in a communist state that requires registration of firearms, or a permit to buy one, the only information specific to the gun given to the NCIS is "long gun" or hand gun."
> 
> Yes, the serial number, etc is listed on the second page of the 4473, but the only way for law enforcement to see it would be go to every gunshop in the nation and physically look at every 4473 on file.
> They would not waste any time on this.


 Ok then explain how a firearm that is never reg any where . Was purchased at a local FFL was traced back to the purchaser . they had the serial number on files attached to the name . The were caught a couple times keeping the records they were not suppose to and said so what. You fell for the story they have it. And can get it in a heart beat.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Smitty901 said:


> Lottery is a giant slush fund .


And a good racket for the state, who comes out way ahead of any winner. Still, wish I was speaking from experience LOL.

Let's say you win the PowerBall at $300 million. Yay! State already did great, collecting $$$ in ticket sales in excess of that. Already made money. Then they offer the following: take your payout over 20 years (which allows them to pay up slowly, from interest earned on holding the bulk and current sales of more tickets) OR take 50% up front and settle for $150 million. State comes out WAY ahead either way. Winner gets screwed either way he goes.

But it's not over: federal taxes on large lottery winnings: up to 37%. State taxes here in Oregon: 8%. $150 million minus 45% in taxes leaves you with what... $82.5 million? This is what you collect. The feds and state get the rest. Win $300 million, expect to get $82.5 million. They'd lock us up for running a game like that.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

StratMaster said:


> And a good racket for the state, who comes out way ahead of any winner. Still, wish I was speaking from experience LOL.
> 
> Let's say you win the PowerBall at $300 million. Yay! State already did great, collecting $$$ in ticket sales in excess of that. Already made money. Then they offer the following: take your payout over 20 years (which allows them to pay up slowly, from interest earned on holding the bulk and current sales of more tickets) OR take 50% up front and settle for $150 million. State comes out WAY ahead either way. Winner gets screwed either way he goes.
> 
> But it's not over: federal taxes on large lottery winnings: up to 37%. State taxes here in Oregon: 8%. $150 million minus 45% in taxes leaves you with what... $82.5 million? This is what you collect. The feds and state get the rest. Win $300 million, expect to get $82.5 million. They'd lock us up for running a game like that.


 And when the State uses projected lottery income to set a budget and the lottery fails to reach their wild dreams. There is a budget short fall so of course taxes must be raised.


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

When I sold my Springfield XDs 3" .45 at a LGS in WA state, he entered the serial number, and it came back when & where I bought it - in CA...Then he wondered how I purchased a gun not on Kommiefornia's list 

Anyway, they have it all in their system by that info...

Peace,
Michael J.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I know here, the ATF would take down every license plate number of vehicles at the gun shows.

They would spend a week or two going through registry data to identify the owners, 

then they would run background checks on the owners.

I don't know how many different shows they went to to grab the data.

A good question would have been why?

In this state you need a license of one sort or another to buy a long gun or a handgun even for ammunition.

Never trust those bastards, they will stick it to you every time, even create an entrapment, have seen it happen.

When a NICK's check is done they either define as a rifle or pistol no details are given.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

I am sure the FBI, ATF etc all have targets on us..owners of legal firearms..
But, they dont have anything on the people we sold them too.


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## jeffh (Apr 6, 2020)

The Tourist said:


> I wouldn't worry too much. For during several decades I used to target shoot with a lot of local police officers. They knew my name, they handled my firearms, and I even invited some to a party at my old home several years ago. I've had so many 4473 forms that it was easier to run a check on me than to find my phone number.
> 
> Old adage: If they wanted you, you'd be in handcuffs now...


^^This^^

I know and socialize with plenty of cops. I get a full background check every 5 years for my CCW. That includes fingerprints and photos. Not to mention all of the 4473s I've filled out over the years. I'm not in the least worried about my NRA affiliation. Especially because I bitch about Wayne and his cronies every chance I get.


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## jeffh (Apr 6, 2020)

Michael_Js said:


> When I sold my Springfield XDs 3" .45 at a LGS in WA state, he entered the serial number, and it came back when & where I bought it - in CA...Then he wondered how I purchased a gun not on Kommiefornia's list
> 
> Anyway, they have it all in their system by that info...
> 
> ...


They don't have that information in their system in most of the interior States except IL. I can buy and sell with complete freedom and anonymity if I want (and follow the laws). I believe the majority of States have similar laws.


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

Most employment background checks run on me always come back with at least 1 reference to a guy a year behind me in HS with the same name. I used to get called down to the principals office weekly, only to be sent back to class.

He must have straightened out his druggie past to own all those firearms he bought 30 years ago. :vs_laugh:


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Ever buy a hunting license?? Think about it if you have to.

The info on the guns you buy is now on the front page of the 4473. First thing filled out for easy viewing.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

2 people who I know very well;

One guy worked for me for over 10 years and he had a pistol stolen from his truck in GA. A few years later he moved to Texas and he gets a call from the FBI in Texas that they have his pistol. He claims it and nothing is ever said to him about the who, what, when, why, how...

Another buddy got his car stolen, local LEO recovered his vehicle and returned it to him. None of his belongings were returned, including a firearm. About 6 months later same LEO dept calls him and says they have a firearm whose serial number shows he bought it x years ago from a dealer. He claims it and nothing else is said to him. 

Too many crimes/lost/stolen firearms are traced back to form 4473. This is fact.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Lottery is a giant slush fund .


That's right! And ye shall work by the sweat of our brow. Forget this free money stuff.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> ....Point is, the government knows who each and every one of us is...lain:


Like Santa.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Annie said:


> Like Santa.


And we the people will get stuck with the bill...just like with Santa...:vs_mad:

(PS Screw Santa. That fat bastard can kiss my ass!...all those damn years Santa got to be the good guy and I was stuck with the damn bill...:vs_mad


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> And we the people will get stuck with the bill...just like with Santa...:vs_mad:
> 
> (PS Screw Santa. That fat bastard can kiss my ass!...all those damn years Santa got to be the good guy and I was stuck with the damn bill...:vs_mad


Not in this house. Mrs Claus saves her tens and twenties literally all the year long with 12/25 in mind. That one blest day can be a killer otherwise.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Denton said:


> I simply assume they know all about me.


Ditto


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Ok then explain how a firearm that is never reg any where . Was purchased at a local FFL was traced back to the purchaser . they had the serial number on files attached to the name . The were caught a couple times keeping the records they were not suppose to and said so what. You fell for the story they have it. And can get it in a heart beat.


That is very simple.
If the federales want to know about a specific firearm, say one found at a crime scene, they simply use the serial number, contact the manufacturer and find out exactly to which FFL that gun was shipped.
A local fed goes to that FFL and examines his Bound Book to see where it went from there.
This is too labor intensive to use for just any gun, they won't waste their time. They have better things to do.

There is no national database of who owns what gun.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> That is very simple.
> If the federales want to know about a specific firearm, say one found at a crime scene, they simply use the serial number, contact the manufacturer and find out exactly to which FFL that gun was shipped.
> A local fed goes to that FFL and examines his Bound Book to see where it went from there.
> This is too labor intensive to use for just any gun, they won't waste their time. They have better things to do.
> ...


When the ATF tracks the point of sale to a gun shop and finds that the weapon was legally sold, that's the end of it for them. That's their only concern.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

If I am not executed during the midnight raid, I will see any of you survivors in the re education camps.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Nope, negative, on the background check.
> Unless you live in a communist state that requires registration of firearms, or a permit to buy one, the only information specific to the gun given to the NCIS is "long gun" or hand gun."
> 
> Yes, the serial number, etc is listed on the second page of the 4473, but the only way for law enforcement to see it would be go to every gunshop in the nation and physically look at every 4473 on file.
> They would not waste any time on this.


Nope they do. The info is just at the FFL until they close and then pushed forward to the ATF. The can freely get any time that they wish.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Slippy said:


> 2 people who I know very well;
> 
> One guy worked for me for over 10 years and he had a pistol stolen from his truck in GA. A few years later he moved to Texas and he gets a call from the FBI in Texas that they have his pistol. He claims it and nothing is ever said to him about the who, what, when, why, how...
> 
> ...


They do what is called a forward trace, the search originates at the manufacturer ends up with the 4473 info.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Big Brother has always known who you are, where you are, and what you are.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Slippy said:


> And we the people will get stuck with the bill...just like with Santa...:vs_mad:
> 
> (PS Screw Santa. That fat bastard can kiss my ass!...all those damn years Santa got to be the good guy and I was stuck with the damn bill...:vs_mad


You got that right! That fat ass bastard owes me a ton of money. :vs_mad:


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

KUSA said:


> If you come up missing, we'll know what happened to you.


If Denton disappears, I am going to assume that a Samsqanch decided to turn a bromance into a romance.....:vs_laugh:


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Annie said:


> That's right! And ye shall work by the sweat of our brow. Forget this free money stuff.


Yep, I see these losers every day, lined up at the gas stations, especially on paydays, buying handfuls of lotto tickets, when they can barely buy milk for their kids (and that milk probably purchased with food stamps anyways). People just throwing away their dollars on the super miniscule chance they will strike it rich. It makes me sick, honestly. People who play the lotto are absolute fools. These idiots, if they just put those monies in a good mutual fund, would be able to retire comfortably when the time comes, instead of living hand to mouth waiting for Big Government to send them their monthly pittance. Sad sacks.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

stevekozak said:


> Yep, I see these losers every day, lined up at the gas stations, especially on paydays, buying handfuls of lotto tickets, when they can barely buy milk for their kids (and that milk probably purchased with food stamps anyways). People just throwing away their dollars on the super miniscule chance they will strike it rich. It makes me sick, honestly. People who play the lotto are absolute fools. These idiots, if they just put those monies in a good mutual fund, would be able to retire comfortably when the time comes, instead of living hand to mouth waiting for Big Government to send them their monthly pittance. *Sad sacks.*


Ha! haven't heard that used in years. ^^^


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## jeffh (Apr 6, 2020)

Slippy said:


> Too many crimes/lost/stolen firearms are traced back to form 4473. This is fact.


Yes, but it isn't automatic. There is no National database. The LEOs have to work at it.

First they need to have the gun to get the serial number. 
Then they need to call the manufacturer and find out what distributor it went to. 
Then the distributor needs to tell them what gun dealer it was sold to, 
Then the dealer has to comb through his (mostly paper) 4473s to find out who bought the gun.

Still doesn't tell you if the gun was bought or sold after the original sale. I have a few 4473s out there with my name on them for guns I haven't owned in years. No idea who owns them now.

When you think about it, anything you buy with a serial number can be traced in a similar way.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

All the fbi or ATF needs to do it tell all the FFL’s in the nation to send in their forms. They’d hired a ton of entry clerks along with some automation and voila... instant database/registry of all gun owners. 

Sure, a portion of it, maybe 15%, hell even 20% will be wrong but that doesn’t matter. If they’d have a list of “gun owners”.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

If anybody doesn't think the FBI and NSA and BATFE are NOT keeping a database of people who buy or attempt to buy a firearm and/or have applied for a carry permit etc...they are a naive fool.

Check out the number of employees that the FBI, BATFE, NSA employ. Same for the State and County Record Clerks etc etc. 

Government has more data bases than even you Conspiracy Theorists can stir with a stick.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> They do what is called a forward trace, the search originates at the manufacturer ends up with the 4473 info.


I just remembered, back in the 80s when I was moving a lot of SKS's out the door, ATF called here looking for the buyer of one of them.

They did not come here, but called from 202 area code, was a bitch of a woman doing the call.

I asked to wait a minute, and she started to yell at me, who the hell was I to tell her to wait!

I said I had to turn the friggin computer on and wait for it to boot up before I could search it.

I had just built a spreadsheet about 6 months before and and was entering all sales into it (I HATE COMPUTERS TODAY, AND DID THEN).

Got the serial number entered it and pulled it right up, gave them the info.

Seems that the SKS was used in a bank robbery in RI.

The brother-in-law of the buyer stole it and committed the robbery, the sale by me was done to a Mass. resident.

It seem like a lot of BIL's steal guns and they are used in robberies.

When on the PD I had two similar cases but they involved handguns.


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## NMPRN (Dec 25, 2020)

For what it's worth (which ain't much) the **Firearm Owners Protection Act* supposedly prohibits the federal government from "the establishment of any system of registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions"

_Amends the rulemaking authority of the Secretary to provide that no regulation may require: (1) the transfer of records required under this Act to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State; or (2) the establishment of any system of registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions. Requires a 90-day public comment period for proposed regulations. _

*the _Firearm Owners Protection Act_ should have been called the _Screw Firearm Owners Act_


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

You expect The Gubbamint to follow the law?


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## richardbruce (May 2, 2020)

*Why would the ATF have my gun SN?*



Smitty901 said:


> They always have had a list . And ATF has a list and serial number of every firearm purchased when a back round check was done.


I've bought guns in half a dozen different states, and I've never heard this before. Are you saying my background check tied the SN of the gun with it? News to me :-(


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Yep the serial number is put on the form 4473 you signed for the weapons purchase. So the ATF has your and the weapons info.


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## Nick (Nov 21, 2020)

I don't know how it works in other states but I know for a fact that here in MA they have a list of every firearm that was legally bought by a person living here since I believe the 90's. They're not supposed to but they do. I know because a few years back I was at Walmart with my brother. We had just came from the range and had stopped to pick up some ammo. There was a girl standing there with a Walmart vest on talking to another girl. He asked her for help after she ignored us for 5 minutes and she said she couldn't help very rudely. So he picked up the phone at the desk and asked for an employee to come help a customer in sporting goods. Next thing I knew the other girl (who was apparently the one who worked there's sister) was right in his face screaming and swearing at him. He just laughed and kind of shrugged it off which infuriated her even more. So she started threatening him and telling him she was going to get her homeboys after him. At this point security was all over the place and he still just stood there while this girl bounced around screaming and threatening him. That was the point I told him we should probably just leave, which we did. A few weeks later he was sitting at home one night when the local police knocked on his door. They had a list of every single firearm that he owned. Make, model, & serial number and told him that his LTC was being revoked and that he had to hand over every firearm that he owned. Long story short the girls at Walmart had followed us outside when we left. They seen we were in a new Mercedes and I think got the idea they could make some $ off him. They had gone to the police and said that he pulled a gun on them and threatened to kill them while calling them racist names. Apparently they were Hispanic, which we didn't even know. He was charged with 2 counts of assault, 2 counts of assault with a firearm, some type of race crimes, and a bunch of other stuff. Funny thing was he didn't even have a gun on him when we were in Walmart and that happened. Didn't matter, they still took his guns before he even had official charges against him nevermind the fact that he obviously hadn't been to court yet. Luckily we live in a small town and know a lot of the officers so they let him transfer them all to me online and I was able to pick them up 2 days later. Nothing ever came of it in court after going 7 different times and thousands on a lawyer. Ended up with a continued without a finding. But he's now prohibited in MA from owning a firearm and probably always will be. Sorry for the long story but I just wanted to let people who live in more conservative states know how lucky they are.


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)




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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

NewRiverGeorge said:


>


I have that and it's a pretty good movie, I got it at a thrift store about a year or two ago. So it took me 30+ years, to getting around to watching it.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Another avenue to check on ownership of guns is warranty work.. If a gun is sent in to a company, they keep records on what was done, who it belonged to etc.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Nick said:


> I don't know how it works in other states but I know for a fact that here in MA they have a list of every firearm that was legally bought by a person living here since I believe the 90's. They're not supposed to but they do. I know because a few years back I was at Walmart with my brother. We had just came from the range and had stopped to pick up some ammo. There was a girl standing there with a Walmart vest on talking to another girl. He asked her for help after she ignored us for 5 minutes and she said she couldn't help very rudely. So he picked up the phone at the desk and asked for an employee to come help a customer in sporting goods. Next thing I knew the other girl (who was apparently the one who worked there's sister) was right in his face screaming and swearing at him. He just laughed and kind of shrugged it off which infuriated her even more. So she started threatening him and telling him she was going to get her homeboys after him. At this point security was all over the place and he still just stood there while this girl bounced around screaming and threatening him. That was the point I told him we should probably just leave, which we did. A few weeks later he was sitting at home one night when the local police knocked on his door. They had a list of every single firearm that he owned. Make, model, & serial number and told him that his LTC was being revoked and that he had to hand over every firearm that he owned. Long story short the girls at Walmart had followed us outside when we left. They seen we were in a new Mercedes and I think got the idea they could make some $ off him. They had gone to the police and said that he pulled a gun on them and threatened to kill them while calling them racist names. Apparently they were Hispanic, which we didn't even know. He was charged with 2 counts of assault, 2 counts of assault with a firearm, some type of race crimes, and a bunch of other stuff. Funny thing was he didn't even have a gun on him when we were in Walmart and that happened. Didn't matter, they still took his guns before he even had official charges against him nevermind the fact that he obviously hadn't been to court yet. Luckily we live in a small town and know a lot of the officers so they let him transfer them all to me online and I was able to pick them up 2 days later. Nothing ever came of it in court after going 7 different times and thousands on a lawyer. Ended up with a continued without a finding. But he's now prohibited in MA from owning a firearm and probably always will be. Sorry for the long story but I just wanted to let people who live in more conservative states know how lucky they are.


A number of questions come to mind when reading this, but the only one I want an answer to is: Why are you still living in MA?


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Chipper said:


> Yep the serial number is put on the form 4473 you signed for the weapons purchase. So the ATF has your and the weapons info.


Wrong! The SN of your firearm is NOT transmitted to the ATF DURING your instant backround check. It stays on the 4473 and that stays in possession of the FFL selling you the gun. But law enforcement can visit your FFL and inspect those 4473 forms to track your purchase. Now your individual states may have additional paperwork and reporting requirements that create a gun registry, but not the feds. The only info reported during the instant backround check is your personal identifying information and the fact that you are purchasing either a long gun or handgun. Nothing else.

Here in PA there is addition paperwork required to buy a handgun. This information is mailed to the state police and the PA state police maintain a database of your info and gun SN and model. In effect, gun registration, but only for handguns.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

The Feds can eventually track down the *original* owner.. Until you sell it of course.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Chiefster23 said:


> Wrong! The SN of your firearm is NOT transmitted to the ATF DURING your instant backround check..........


And not all states have instant BGCs. Some do the check when you apply for the permit, and that's good for the duration of the permit. So you can go to an FFL, buy whatever you want, and the only transaction is to fill out the 4473, show 'em your King's Permission Slip, and pay for it. The gubbamint never knew it happened.


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## Nick (Nov 21, 2020)

stevekozak said:


> A number of questions come to mind when reading this, but the only one I want an answer to is: Why are you still living in MA?


I would love to move out of this state. Unfortunately that's not something I can do at this time. I work for my family business which is local and not possible to move. My parents are still alive and live a few miles away. I actually enjoy having them close by, especially at this point in their lives. Also my son is their only grandchild and they are very close with him so it would be extremely difficult to take him from them on top of everything else.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Chiefster23 said:


> Wrong! The SN of your firearm is NOT transmitted to the ATF DURING your instant backround check. It stays on the 4473 and that stays in possession of the FFL selling you the gun. But law enforcement can visit your FFL and inspect those 4473 forms to track your purchase. Now your individual states may have additional paperwork and reporting requirements that create a gun registry, but not the feds. The only info reported during the instant backround check is your personal identifying information and the fact that you are purchasing either a long gun or handgun. Nothing else.
> 
> Here in PA there is addition paperwork required to buy a handgun. This information is mailed to the state police and the PA state police maintain a database of your info and gun SN and model. In effect, gun registration, but only for handguns.


Did you read what was posted? Info is put on the form, didn't say anything about transferred. All the ATF has to do is call and the FFL has to give them the info.

Don't know how this can even be a question unless you don't look at the form your filling out. Right on top, section A, on the first page is the location for your weapons info.


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

What the eyes see and the ears hear, the mind believes.
Harry Houdini

Misdirection is the keyword.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Chipper said:


> Did you read what was posted? Info is put on the form, didn't say anything about transferred. All the ATF has to do is call and the FFL has to give them the info.
> 
> Don't know how this can even be a question unless you don't look at the form your filling out. Right on top, section A, on the first page is the location for your weapons info.


Re-read what you posted. You stated that the ATF "has" your information. They do not. They can get it easy enough, but they do not "have" it so there is not a readily available list or gun registration. People keep claiming that the ATF already has gun registration and this just isn't true. My local gun store has been in business for over 40 years and maintains his gun records in hand written notebooks. Can you imagine how many boxes of gun records he has piled up in storage? Good luck on any ATF agent searching thru that mess to find one particular SN. Sure it can be done but it's a pretty time consuming job.

And for the record I'm very familiar with the form. Both as a purchaser and as the guy behind the counter selling you the gun.


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## Michael_Js (Dec 4, 2013)

I already wrote this in this thread, but I'll add again. When I sold my Springfield XDs at a WA state LGS, he entered the serial number in the computer, and he found my name, and the Kommiefornia gun store that I bought it from - he was verifying it was my gun that was selling...He asked how I ever bought an off kommiefornia register firearm...which it was...

How did that happen? He didn't call the ATF or anyone else...it took maybe a minute. What system did he use? My name and where I bought the gun were readily available via the serial number...

Peace,
Michael J.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

As I stated, PA state requires separate paperwork and maintains a database for handgun registration. I know for a fact that this database is readily available to PA law enforcement and also other states. I’m pretty sure all states that have these requirements are networked. But these are state databases, not federal. But you can rest assured that the feds have access too.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Florida does not have any firearm registration at all.
BUT, all the lawdogs have to do is check who has a hunting license, who has a concealed weapons license.

I'm also in the Georgia database, because in order to use the range (which is in Georgia) I have to have a Georgia fishing or hunting license.
Everytime I visit this state run outdoor range I have to sign in with my Georgia Dept of Natural Resources i.d. number.


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## kl0an (Mar 10, 2021)

Just don't buy your guns from a dealer.. Let the poor guy that did buy it from a dealer and sold it to you worry about it. I've bought many guns and the only paper work ever use was Benjamins..

My Dad is a lifetime member of the NRA and always asks me "Why aren't you a member of the NRA?? Don't you want to keep your guns?? Well, if no paperwork is filled out, how does the NRA know??

Criminals don't buy guns when they have to get a background check done unless they're stoopid.

My Dad wanted me to send him back a few guns he gave me. Told me to go someplace like a dealer and do the whole FFL thing.. I told him I'd rather deliver them to him personally than give anyone suspicions that I have guns..

They can have my guns when they pry them out of my cold, dead hands.. Unless my sons get to them first..


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