# Staying put or Mobile? - realistically speaking in SHTF long term.



## Brentwood

So which option would be the best option? Hunkering down for long term or being prepped to moblize stealthy long term? Say you are with a 5 to 10 group party maximum, at varied degrees of expertise via military to no experience at all. What is the overall opinion here?


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## A Watchman

Too many variables and personal capabilities along with the depth of their preparations to consider for a finite answer.

But I do know, if you are "bugging out" it would be a good idea to have a prepared and intentional place to go to.


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## Real Old Man

Welcome

Agree with Watchman. Way too many variables. 

however a group of 10 or so individuals roaming the landscape would tend to look like a bunch of scavengers


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## Auntie

I believe everyone should have a bug out places in mind, for that just in case scenario. For example, if a fire, flood or anything else causes you to leave your bug in location what are you going to do? I personally plan to bug in but have a location in mind if I have to leave temporarily or until I can get back to my bug in location.


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## Camel923

It would be harder to remain mobile for the long haul, especially with children and elderly if that is part of your group. Staying put or bugging out to a different location still requires supplies and shelter. Being mobile really limits what you have.


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## Oddcaliber

Camel is correct,just how long will that 72 hour kit last beyond 72 hours. You can only take so much with you and nothing lasts forever. Bug in at least you have what it takes to survive. Bug out only as a last resort.


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## Maine-Marine

Much depends on the event...

EMP with no cars running... stay put
Pandemic with lots of illness - stay put
Nuclear attack... where it happens matters
UN Invasion...stay put, collect rifles and count coup...lol


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## Operator6

Brentwood said:


> So which option would be the best option? Hunkering down for long term or being prepped to moblize stealthy long term? Say you are with a 5 to 10 group party maximum, at varied degrees of expertise via military to no experience at all. What is the overall opinion here?


If given the choice I will always stay where the majority of my supplies and land are. I have several options but staying home is the most attractive. BUT.......if you can't drink the water or breathe the air.....it's time to load up.


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## Brentwood

:roll:


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## Brentwood

Brentwood said:


> So which option would be the best option? Hunkering down for long term or being prepped to moblize stealthy long term? Say you are with a 5 to 10 group party maximum, at varied degrees of expertise via military to no experience at all. What is the overall opinion here?


The variables are too many to summise but,,,, ready for mobility in a seconds notice is a must. The team must find semi secure non-permanent bug out locations dependent upon the current threats assesed. UN invasion will be a complete lock down situation in the city and sweeps will definitly be conducted in rural and farther outlying areas. They will coerce all citizens into controlled zonal areas. Staying put will be solely contingent upon the degree of your own security capabilities, resources and the current geographical threat assesment. At some point mobility will become a complete necessity for most. Perfect example is hurricane Katrina... Staying put became a death sentence for everyone who could not get mobile. Mobility means any mode possible to include walking or even swimming in the later case.... So I ask the question,,,, what are you ready for?? Adapt and overcome!!!


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## Chipper

I made a choice of where I live for a reason. So I'm staying put, period. Bugging out and going mobile would be the last thing I would consider. Because no matter where you or I go it's someones backyard. That they are willing to protect no matter what. I'll stay put in the area I know like the back of my hand. You better not wander in and try to set up camp.


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## Operator6

Chipper said:


> I made a choice of where I live for a reason. So I'm staying put, period. Bugging out and going mobile would be the last thing I would consider. Because no matter where you or I go it's someones backyard. That they are willing to protect no matter what. I'll stay put in the area I know like the back of my hand. You better not wander in and try to set up camp.


So if a nuclear power plant for instance melted down or a train loaded with hazardous chemicals had a spill close to you, your plan is to stay in th area ?


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## Illini Warrior

no idea why anyone would think roaming around the countryside, with an itchy trigger finger behind every bush, is going to be such a safe option .... most preppers will be lucky to get to their BOL before roads are blocked and travel banned .... so it's hiking from one refugee filled area - thru another refugee filled area - to a new refugee filled area .... and this is a long term plan? ....


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## Operator6

Illini Warrior said:


> no idea why anyone would think roaming around the countryside, with an itchy trigger finger behind every bush, is going to be such a safe option .... most preppers will be lucky to get to their BOL before roads are blocked and travel banned .... so it's hiking from one refugee filled area - thru another refugee filled area - to a new refugee filled area .... and this is a long term plan? ....


I've never had anyone tell me what my situation will be before they knew what the reason I would be bugging out for. Thanks !


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## rice paddy daddy

My wife and I worked long and hard to clear our little farm out of what was once a pine tree farm.
I'm not leaving. This is as good a place to die as any, and better than most.


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## hag

A hag without his land cattle and horses ain't much of a hag. I will die where I'm at if need be. I might even get the chance to bury myself..............in spent brass


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## Medic33

what is the romanticism about being mobile? you know being a nomad?
if you are that worried about it get out of civilization now and head to bfe all back to basics like and you will not have to worry about running.


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## Medic33

Operator6 said:


> I've never had anyone tell me what my situation will be before they knew what the reason I would be bugging out for. Thanks !


no, but your putting a "what if " in and telling us what our situation might be before it happens to get the proper response you are looking for now aren't yah.
so bllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to you too childish isn't.


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## inceptor

So many pissin contests...... smh


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## Operator6

Medic33 said:


> no, but your putting a "what if " in and telling us what our situation might be before it happens to get the proper response you are looking for now aren't yah.
> so bllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to you too childish isn't.


Of course I am. Guy tells me he's not leaving home no matter what....... Yeah ok then why even prep at all if all it takes is a train spilling some chemical or a nuke plant going boom for a guy to lay down and die rather than grabbing a bag and hitting the road.

That's all......


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## inceptor

Operator6 said:


> Of course I am. Guy tells me he's not leaving home no matter what....... Yeah ok then why even prep at all if all it takes is a train spilling some chemical or a nuke plant going boom for a guy to lay down and die rather than grabbing a bag and hitting the road.
> 
> That's all......


So what you're telling me is your right and anyone who doesn't agree (like me) is wrong. And you're gonna tell me just how wrong I am.


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## Medic33

there are no trains were I live there are no nuclear plants were I live , there no people for miles except me and my family were I live so those analogy's do not apply here.
I prep for food shortages -I prep for civil unrest- I prep for hard winters or brutal summers-power outages. . . I do not prep jic a meteorite hit's me in the head which in that case all the preps in the world will not save me ,now will it?


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## Brentwood

Operator6 said:


> Of course I am. Guy tells me he's not leaving home no matter what....... Yeah ok then why even prep at all if all it takes is a train spilling some chemical or a nuke plant going boom for a guy to lay down and die rather than grabbing a bag and hitting the road.
> 
> That's all......


Amen Operator!! Just brought up an interesting reason to consider mobile. I dont know about everyone but I will try to evade and survive,,, hence the term prep... Prepare for the worst and hope for the best... Wandering aimlessly is not a solution but becomes more of a problem. Plan, move/evade, bug in secure the fort and repeat as needed. Adapt and overcome!!!


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## inceptor

Medic33 said:


> I do not prep jic a meteorite hit's me in the head which in that case all the preps in the world will not save me ,now will it?


YOU DON'T???? :spank:


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## Medic33

:armata_PDT_40:


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## Operator6

inceptor said:


> So what you're telling me is your right and anyone who doesn't agree (like me) is wrong. And you're gonna tell me just how wrong I am.


 Take the info and do with it what you please, I don't care. If you or anyone else wants to stay home and perish that is your choice.


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## Operator6

Medic33 said:


> there are no trains were I live there are no nuclear plants were I live , there no people for miles except me and my family were I live so those analogy's do not apply here.
> I prep for food shortages -I prep for civil unrest- I prep for hard winters or brutal summers-power outages. . . I do not prep jic a meteorite hit's me in the head which in that case all the preps in the world will not save me ,now will it?


I prep for the unkown. The preps I have are useful in many scenarios so I don't limit myself by a predetermined conclusion to never leave.


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## Brentwood

Brentwood said:


> Amen Operator!! Just brought up an interesting reason to consider mobile. I dont know about everyone but I will try to evade and survive,,, hence the term prep... Prepare for the worst and hope for the best... Wandering aimlessly is not a solution but becomes more of a problem. Plan, move/evade, bug in secure the fort and repeat as needed. Adapt and overcome!!!


Keep in mind that the above is not a scavenger mind set. It is an evasion survival tactic. Lets assume this team knows its homeland region fairly well. Open comm by any means and try to connect with friendlies across the geographic area. Bugging-in with friendlies serves a multitude of purposes that are potential assests for both the homesteader and the bug-ins. Establish chained networks just like they did in the 1500's by walking or horseback if need be.. Also,, this stragegy increases your teams manpower, equipment and resources inherently for all parties concerned. Adapt and overcome!!


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## rice paddy daddy

The ONLY thing that would make me leave would be a Cat 2 or stronger hurricane headed straight for us.
Then we'd just hook up the horse trailer to the wife's truck, the travel trailer to mine, and go a hundred miles inland to a Walmart parking lot for a day or two.


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## Illini Warrior

Operator6 said:


> I've never had anyone tell me what my situation will be before they knew what the reason I would be bugging out for. Thanks !


this isn't new info for anyone that has sat down and gathered info & facts over the decades .... it's just common factors for almost all SHTFs .... if you think roaming around the countryside is the way to go - more power to you ... but every morning in Venezuela they are burying truckloads of people with your same notion ....


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## Operator6

Illini Warrior said:


> this isn't new info for anyone that has sat down and gathered info & facts over the decades .... it's just common factors for almost all SHTFs .... if you think roaming around the countryside is the way to go - more power to you ... but every morning in Venezuela they are burying truckloads of people with your same notion ....


If you've gathered facts for decades, I would hope that you understand your facts.

Tell me about the facts of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina......how many dead bodies were pulled out of that city....

Do you think they should've left ????

Glad you mentioned Venezuela, if you had the means to leave that country, you would choose to stay ??? That would be ridiculous....

Good luck to you....


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## Medic33

Operator6 said:


> I prep for the unkown. The preps I have are useful in many scenarios so I don't limit myself by a predetermined conclusion to never leave.


yes, we all do, but I took care not to be a refugee a long long time ago when land was cheap and I had more cash laying around in the bank, in the mattress, invested and lots more coming in like an avalanche coming down the mountain.
I have more than 1 bug out location and one of them is so far out there the only way to get there is by foot or goat cause they are the only things that live that far up.
so you see this is why it is called prepping -roaming around there is only so much you can carry even in a vehicle, I ain't go to worry about it I will always have a place to go.
and yes they each have every thing my family need to survive period.


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## Jp4GA

We will stay put for as long as possible. There is always an advantage to knowing your surroundings. We have prepped for a reason-- survival. Right now in our current location with our current preps we could live for about 2 years- maybe more if we can garden successfully and animals don't all disappear. If we have to jump up and leave we will be limited to what we can take with us which could limit how long we can survive. Yes we have a truck and a trailer, but in some situations it will be impossible to take either or both. We may be forced to walk out with only what we can carry. Our plan stay put as long as possible. We are currently looking for a bug-out location and a new permanent home (more land, more storage space) and may purchase one or both if we find something we feel is suitable. We are not crazy or stupid and will leave if we have too. Weather and fire situations are totally different than other types of SHTF situations- as they are predictable, and generally short lived and you either get hit hard or you don't. Thankfully in our area we are not prone to weather outbreaks.


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## rice paddy daddy

Operator6 said:


> If you've gathered facts for decades, I would hope that you understand your facts.
> 
> Tell me about the facts of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina......how many dead bodies were pulled out of that city....
> 
> Do you think they should've left ????
> 
> Glad you mentioned Venezuela, if you had the means to leave that country, you would choose to stay ??? That would be ridiculous....
> 
> Good luck to you....


Anyone that lives in a city, any city, and especially one that is below sea level to begin with, is destined to fail from the start.


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## Operator6

rice paddy daddy said:


> Anyone that lives in a city, any city, and especially one that is below sea level to begin with, is destined to fail from the start.


That's why I have a plan to leave if necessary. In the big picture of life it's not much risk (having to leave)versus a great reward to live in the city for me.


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## Seneca

Brentwood said:


> So which option would be the best option? Hunkering down for long term or being prepped to moblize stealthy long term? Say you are with a 5 to 10 group party maximum, at varied degrees of expertise via military to no experience at all. What is the overall opinion here?


Realistically speaking?
The best option is the one that doesn't turn a person into a (mobilize stealthy long term) raider.


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## MisterMills357

Brentwood said:


> So which option would be the best option? Hunkering down for long term or being prepped to moblize stealthy long term? Say you are with a 5 to 10 group party maximum, at varied degrees of expertise via military to no experience at all. What is the overall opinion here?


That is a pretty broad consideration in ways, if I had no friendship/familial/loyalty ties to the group, I would abandon it, as soon as fissures began to appear. 
And they would appear, I have faith in that, I have seen people in action for 60 years. When they are scared to death, they become either a pack of morons or a pack of wolves. And that is a guarantee of failure.

And, while I love my neighbor as myself, I ain't a babysitter, and I would not have those anchors around my neck. I would find a place for myself or stay at home, hunkered down. And, I am saying that with the love of Jesus in my heart, as a Christian.


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## Rider

Knowing your AO gives you a vast advantage in many ways. Look at how the Viet Cong was able to have an edge on US troops that were far superior in weaponry and technology, all because they had "home field advantage". There comes a time when bugging out is inevitable and it must be done. But by all means, plan to bug out as a LAST DITCH EFFORT to survive. If you think you will just run into the woods with a bug out bag and survive, you are gravely mistaken, you will die very quickly unless you have a vast knowledge on how to do so effectively. Plan to dig in and defend your home and/or your AO.


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## 8301

rice paddy daddy said:


> Anyone that lives in a city, any city, and especially one that is below sea level to begin with, is destined to fail from the start.


Agreed, Living in a city that depends on pumps every day to survive is stupid


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## gyro_cfi

Unfortunately, I'm always far from my home (1500 miles far). I prep to get back home or to the nearest relatives place in that direction.


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## Operator6

FoolAmI said:


> Agreed, Living in a city that depends on pumps every day to survive is stupid


He's stating that anyone who lives in ANY city.........is destined to fail. Then puts emphasis on city's below sea level.

I can agree with some of that statement but not all. City's are destined to fail ?.......I guess so are country's then.


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## prepperman

I personally like to be in one spot with all of my supplies. I know what I have and have become more and more self-sufficient over the years. Don't like the idea of having to become mobile, but can definitely do what needs to be done if needed.


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## phrogman

I agree that staying put is the best option, but if you have an actual BOL then get the F out of dodge before everyone figures what is happening. If you don't have a BOL or don't get out in time, bug in and wait until the initial die off is over and hope that you're not one of them.


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## tc556guy

I wont repeat what everyone else said; there's been a lot of good input.
If you look at older "primitive" societies on this continent, even if they were cultures that moved from one location to another, they didn't do so randomly. They moved from established summer locations to established winter locations within their territories, and they had a system down pat for doing so.
Ultimately if you intend to grow and thrive you're going to need to establish a permanent base
You wont be able to run away from potential threats forever, if that's what you're on the move from.
You'll need to plant your flag somewhere and make a stand or the people nipping at your heels will be there forever.


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## tc556guy

Operator6 said:


> He's stating that anyone who lives in ANY city.........is destined to fail. Then puts emphasis on city's below sea level.
> 
> I can agree with some of that statement but not all. City's are destined to fail ?.......I guess so are country's then.


Every culture of any importance has developed urban centers where commerce is conducted, that act as travel hubs, etc.
The civilized world has developed some highly refined networks to make modern cities livable
if society were to crash, cities as we know them would have to change, and would doubtlessly shrink or change to meet the new reality, but they'll never go away completely


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## SOCOM42

Myself, I am going nowhere, way to much stuff, and I am not leaving what I have prepared decades for.

I am rural on a lake, that is my water supply, and the water keeps changing by the rivers running in and out of it.

My only worry is the scum from the cities out foraging post SHTF.

The only activity here at the onset of an incident is the filling of sand bags for protection of entrance ways etc.

Those networks or hubs will disappear in a breakdown in the larger ones.


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## NotTooProudToHide

I'd say there are multiple factors that should go into that decision. Do you have a place to go? Is your current position uninhabitable due to lack of resources, contamination, or civil unrest? How good of a community do you live in? Will your survival odds increase by risking the hazards associated with bugging out. Questions such as these.

Myself, I live in a pretty good city, around 60,000 people. Most of our crime is substance abuse related or domestic violence and its always committed by the same people. Out last SHTF event was an icestorm in 2009 or 2010 I forget. It destroyed the local power infrastructure and caused major disruptions in emergency services, availability of supplies, and many roads where impassable. People where without electricity for up to two weeks, they had to call in crews from out of state to assist getting the grid back up. During that time while there where isolated incidents for the most part the community came together and really helped each other and those that caused trouble where dealt with. I feel like where I live is a pretty good place to be if it hit the fan, I'm working on getting supplies in the house, and I can't afford a bug out location as of now so unless something happened to contaminate the area I will be staying put, subject to change according to the situation.


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## Targetshooter

My happy azz is not leaven my house until it's my last resort . Yes I am looking for a BOL and I hope I can find one soon , just to be on the safe side .


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## tc556guy

SOCOM42 said:


> Those networks or hubs will disappear in a breakdown in the larger ones.


Short term, sure
My comment was about long term.
Rural areas have always needed urban centers.
The urban centers as we've known them wont exist because the technology to keep them in their present form will change, but they'll never disappear completely


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## SOCOM42

tc556guy said:


> Short term, sure
> My comment was about long term.
> Rural areas have always needed urban centers.
> The urban centers as we've known them wont exist because the technology to keep them in their present form will change, but they'll never disappear completely


This is true, they will come back, but they will be on the 19th century model.

Just how long do you think it will take for them to be restored to any level of trade as we know them?

There will be no products to move in those hubs, the availability of them will be the determining factor.

Those centers slowly evolved over the first 100 years,

their expansion to modern levels took another 100 at an incremental level based on several factors, such as technology, railroads and trucking.

Dependent on the type and scope of an event, they could be reduced to the colonial model of the northeast, basically a fishing village.

I have studied the industrial evolution in the country, the items that allowed the expansion are non existent today.

Half of the people will die off because the will be no way to sustain them.

If a collapse occurred in say 1939, the recovery would be a breeze compared to today, we were early on in our hydrocarbon based social structure.

The countries production was based on steam and hydro power at a local level, none of that material exist today and neither do the draft animals at a usable level.


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## rice paddy daddy

Operator6 said:


> He's stating that anyone who lives in ANY city.........is destined to fail. Then puts emphasis on city's below sea level.
> 
> I can agree with some of that statement but not all. City's are destined to fail ?.......I guess so are country's then.


Read it again. Where did I say cities were going to fail?
I said any PERSON living in a city during a collapse was destined to fail. Look what is happening in Chicago, Detroit, and dozens of other big cities RIGHT NOW. Would you want to be a decent, honest person living there? 
What do you think will happen to large urban centers during a REAL crisis? And those in the suburbs will go down too.

Small town America will still be around. By small town I'm thinking 5,000 or less. Yeah, we may have to reset to early 20th Century living, but us country folk will be able to do it. Big city folk resetting to 1920's style living? I don't think so.


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## Operator6

rice paddy daddy said:


> Read it again. Where did I say cities were going to fail?
> I said any PERSON living in a city during a collapse was destined to fail. Look what is happening in Chicago, Detroit, and dozens of other big cities RIGHT NOW. Would you want to be a decent, honest person living there?
> What do you think will happen to large urban centers during a REAL crisis? And those in the suburbs will go down too.
> 
> Small town America will still be around. By small town I'm thinking 5,000 or less. Yeah, we may have to reset to early 20th Century living, but us country folk will be able to do it. Big city folk resetting to 1920's style living? I don't think so.


Simple deduction will tell you that if people in the city fail, the city will fail.

People will die everywhere........rural and in the city. Some rural areas will be over run with people from the city.

Rural areas are supported by cities, I see if every Friday when all the country bumpkins drive into the city to shop, and they can't drive worth a crap.......

Dirt all over the car from the dirt roads and no shoes on the kids feet......


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## Operator6

I forgot about the hospital too......how many people get hurt in the city and get taken to the hospital out in the country.......

Oh yeah, no one because everything but a cold is treated in the city........where the Dr's and medical supplies are. I'm not talking bandaids....

If I wasn't a prepper, the first thing I would do is try to find me a safe place away from people.......Id be looking to take a place like you own. Maybe wait for you to step out to the garden or for you to take a drive down that long dirt road you talk about. You'd never see it coming


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## SOCOM42

Operator6 said:


> I forgot about the hospital too......how many people get hurt in the city and get taken to the hospital out in the country.......


I do not know where you live, here, I live in a rural area in a town of 4k, there are two hospitals nearby, both country hospitals.

One is three miles away, the other is about seven, they are equipped for most problems.

All the town around me run a population up to about 6k and thereares miles between the centers of each unlike LA and surroundings where you only know

you changed is by a sign on a street corner.

The land in between is either farm land or dense with trees.

We go to the one in the big city because our doctors of 30+ years practice and same length of our being patient's are there when not in their offices.

That one is the UMass Med Center in Worcester, It is one of the top med centers in the country.

IF the SHTF, what makes you think any of them will be operating very long???

How long will the meds last in them? There will be desperate raiders afoot.

In a SHTF scenario, My brother and his wife will be here, he is an MD, a country doctor and his wife an RN in a surgical suite in a country hospital.

That country hospital even has a medivac helicopter to field retrieve or move up to higher level treatment.

You can better believe that he will be bringing plenty of med stuff, we have already stored plenty.

He knows the medical offices are going to be hit within a few days of an incident, and does not plan on being a target/victim.


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## Operator6

SOCOM42 said:


> I do not know where you live, here, I live in a rural area in a town of 4k, there are two hospitals nearby, both country hospitals.
> 
> One is three miles away, the other is about seven, they are equipped for most problems.
> 
> All the town around me run a population up to about 6k ant there is miles between the centers of each unlike LA and surroundings where you only know
> 
> you changed is by a sign on a street corner.
> 
> The land in between is either farm land or dense with trees.
> 
> We go to the one in the big city because our doctors of 30+ years practice and same length of our being patient's are there when not in their offices.
> 
> That one is the UMass Med Center in Worcester, It is one of the top med centers in the country.
> 
> IF the SHTF, what makes you think any of them will be operating very long???
> 
> How long will the meds last in them? There will be desperate raiders afoot.
> 
> In a SHTF scenario, My brother and his wife will be here, he is an MD, a country doctor and his wife an RN in a surgical suite in a country hospital.
> 
> That country hospital even has a medivac helicopter to field retrieve or move up to higher level treatment.
> 
> You can better believe that he will be bringing plenty of med stuff, we have already stored plenty.
> 
> He knows the medical offices are going to be hit within a few days of an incident, and does not plan on being a target/victim.


So you live in an area with 4,000 people and two hospitals within 10 miles of each other. I'd say that's strange, at best an exception and not the rule.


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## Operator6

My point is this. 

If you are not willing to leave an area just because you have your " stuff " there, then you're not really prepared. If I need to grab a bag and leave in order to survive then I'm down with that. 

There are too many scenarios that could make staying in some locations impossible and still survive, no matter what your plans are today.


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## Smitty901

All depends on.
Where you are.
What have your preped for
How long you have been working on it
Training and skill of those that will be locked down with you
We are staying put.


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## SOCOM42

Operator6 said:


> So you live in an area with 4,000 people and two hospitals within 10 miles of each other. I'd say that's strange, at best an exception and not the rule.


You misread it, my town has 4k of people, the abutting towns have up to around 6k in each.

Those two hospitals service large towns near each of them of up to about 10-15k.

I would have to go through two towns to get to one or the other.

They are not even in the same counties.

About 50 miles west are larger hospitals in Springfield, given the demographics, they would be stripped in two days.

If you think I am full of shit, Look up the location of the following hospitals, all in Massachusetts.

Mary Lane Hospital, Ware, Ma.

Harrington Memorial Hospital, Southbridge, MA.

Put me roughly between these two above.

And the one I go to, 13-18 miles depending how I go there is the U of Mass campus hospital, Worcester, Ma. This one has four separate ones just in Worcester.

Worcester is referred to as the hub for hospitals and medical research in the Northeast.

I think there are in Worcester ten different ones.

Further, it is my choice to stay here, die or not, making a choice as such does not mean I am not prepared it means I have made a choice..


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## bigwheel

Well this thread appears to be getting pretty long in the tooth so no guarantees similar scenarios aint already been previously voiced.lol..but I know some anti social types who tend to get drove nuts being around other people. So they got no place to go where anybody might be glad to see them. Think we best plan to shelter in place. We may need more ammo if things really get tense. Some of your hoarders might need to be willing to share.lol.


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## Operator6

SOCOM42 said:


> You misread it, my town has 4k of people, the abutting towns have up to around 6k in each.
> 
> Those two hospitals service large towns near each of them of up to about 10-15k.
> 
> I would have to go through two towns to get to one or the other.
> 
> They are not even in the same counties.
> 
> About 50 miles west are larger hospitals in Springfield, given the demographics, they would be stripped in two days.
> 
> If you think I am full of shit, Look up the location of the following hospitals, all in Massachusetts.
> 
> Mary Lane Hospital, Ware, Ma.
> 
> Harrington Memorial Hospital, Southbridge, MA.
> 
> Put me roughly between these two above.
> 
> And the one I go to, 13-18 miles depending how I go there is the U of Mass campus hospital, Worcester, Ma. This one has four separate ones just in Worcester.
> 
> Worcester is referred to as the hub for hospitals and medical research in the Northeast.
> 
> I think there are in Worcester ten different ones.
> 
> Further, it is my choice to stay here, die or not, making a choice as such does not mean I am not prepared it means I have made a choice..


I think you may not be as insulated as you think. Sounds to me you're in a well populated area.

Sure it's your choice to stay in one spot and die but why would you want to ? Is your house and stuff worth your life ?


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Gosh, I wish I knew everything like some people here.

Nah, I'd rather be an ignorant country bumpkin with mud from the dirt road on my pickup. You know, the 4X4 pickup with the empty feed sacks in the back.
:vs_lol:


----------



## Operator6

@SOCOM42

You have 8.5 million people about 3 hrs to your south. You have at least 500,000 in your area within walking distance, less than 50 miles.


----------



## SOCOM42

Operator6 said:


> I think you may not be as insulated as you think. Sounds to me you're in a well populated area.
> 
> Sure it's your choice to stay in one spot and die but why would you want to ? Is your house and stuff worth your life ?


I am not going to continue this banter, AS I SAID IT IS MY CHOICE!

You want to run, and then run again, you go right ahead, you have no idea what we can put up for defense of this place,

I will not be alone, and all but one of us are combat vets and most are currently police officers.

Men have died for less, I have seen it and so has RPD and others. There comes a time when you make a stand, here is where I will.


----------



## Annie

Maine-Marine said:


> Much depends on the event...
> 
> EMP with no cars running... stay put
> Pandemic with lots of illness - stay put
> Nuclear attack... where it happens matters
> UN Invasion...stay put, collect rifles and count coup...lol


This.


----------



## Operator6

rice paddy daddy said:


> Gosh, I wish I knew everything like some people here.
> 
> Nah, I'd rather be an ignorant country bumpkin with mud from the dirt road on my pickup. You know, the 4X4 pickup with the empty feed sacks in the back.
> :vs_lol:


Were you just at Walmart ? Lmao ! I kid you, I'm not claiming to know more but I just don't understand why you would rather stay and die vs leaving with a chance to live and even come back.



SOCOM42 said:


> I am not going to continue this banter, AS I SAID IT IS MY CHOICE!
> 
> You want to run, and then run again, you go right ahead, you have no idea what we can put up for defense of this place,
> 
> I will not be alone, and all but one of us are combat vets and most are currently police officers.
> 
> Men have died for less, I have seen it and so has RPD and others. There comes a time when you make a stand, here is where I will.


No need to get menstrual, I acknowledged it's your choice. If you can't breathe the air or drink the water, why on Gods green earth would you want to stay ?

It's your choice is the best you can come up with ? < That's a legit and serious question.


----------



## Deebo

HMMM, well Deebo has way too much shit to carry. Deebo will not be a "marauding ghost" roaming around merking people when they garden.
Deebo does not want to be "hiking" with any group of people when "every gun owner in America" is dying or killing each for a can of beans.
My little crap hole house, with my dogs, garden, and loving family..
Could I bug out? Drive, yes, throw the essentials in a camper and drive off. then worry about every gun owner shooting me for my beans?
all boils down to being "more prepared". I will never be prepared, until im OFF GRID, tucked back into a mountain. Cam I be more prepared, of course, every day, I prep. 
Fortunately, this isn't the movies. The world hasn't gone rogue. People in my city aren't killing each other for beans, drugs yes.
I don't wanna jack a thread, but I think the gun grab, or civil unrest caused by "free free free" vs work for it, will more of a reality than most think.


----------



## A Watchman

bigwheel said:


> Well this thread appears to be getting pretty long in the tooth so no guarantees similar scenarios aint already been previously voiced.lol..but I know some anti social types who tend to get drove nuts being around other people. So they got no place to go where anybody might be glad to see them. Think we best plan to shelter in place. We may need more ammo if things really get tense. Some of your hoarders might need to be willing to share.lol.


No worries bigwheel, I got your back on the ammo.


----------



## M118LR

If the choice is move or die, it's time to unfurl the Main. Never give up.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

if I ever have to give up the fort... rest assured I will have preps divided and guerilla harass them from a distance... and make it not worth their time.. enough attackers and enough time, any defended position could fall.. wait for a windy dry day and start a wildfire 1/2 mile away... whatever.. always need to be prepared to abandon ship if need be. and live to fight another day!


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

SOCOM42 said:


> This is true, they will come back, but they will be on the 19th century model.
> 
> Just how long do you think it will take for them to be restored to any level of trade as we know them?
> 
> There will be no products to move in those hubs, the availability of them will be the determining factor.
> 
> Those centers slowly evolved over the first 100 years,
> 
> their expansion to modern levels took another 100 at an incremental level based on several factors, such as technology, railroads and trucking.
> 
> Dependent on the type and scope of an event, they could be reduced to the colonial model of the northeast, basically a fishing village.
> 
> I have studied the industrial evolution in the country, the items that allowed the expansion are non existent today.
> 
> Half of the people will die off because the will be no way to sustain them.
> 
> If a collapse occurred in say 1939, the recovery would be a breeze compared to today, we were early on in our hydrocarbon based social structure.
> 
> The countries production was based on steam and hydro power at a local level, none of that material exist today and neither do the draft animals at a usable level.


Suburbia changed everything


----------



## Prepared One

Age forces certain realities. I am not ex military or a super ninja dude of death and destruction but I was once very capable and still am to a certain point. Even super ninjas age. My knees and back won't let me hike 200 miles all the while fighting off every dumb ass between here and where ever I am going. My wife is not, nor was she ever, a strong woman physically. ( Mentally and character wise she is the strongest women I have ever met ) Chronic arthritis and other medical issues has taken it's toll unfortunately. Driving would be easier of course and I have plans and am prepared to bug out if forced. But the reality of it is that being on the road, the two of us alone, is not a good first option or even a second option. I stay with her......... I bug out with her........and only as a last resort and left with no choice. If I am to die, it will be with her. I have prepared as best I can for different scenarios and left my options open. I can only hope I have done enough.


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## inceptor

Everything depends on the scenario. A very old saying is "If you want to make God laugh, tell him what your plans are." 

We have tried to get out of the burbs several times. Each time the rug was pulled out from under us. So, I plan to stay here and see what transpires. If we have to go then I will. Until then, well, here I'll be. If I go down, it won't be cowering. I just don't seem to cower well. AND I won't just lay down and die. I will deal with what I have to when I have to. When God says it's time to come home, then I'll go knowing full well I did my best.


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## Smitty901

When you stay put, you can't just lock the gate. Assaults from the outside will in time wear you down and defeat you. You must have way to defend from the outside also . If you do then you can ride it out.
Staying put requires a place many would want to stay away from. Cold is an example. Having a good buffer zone . A place where you can raise and hang on to the food you need. No one knows your yard like you do big advantage. Out walking around stick a target on you back. You may likely be in someone else yard.


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## Deebo

Personally, I know interceptor, and have shook his hand. It's a big hand.


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## inceptor

Well none of us should be that worried. After all, just on this board we have several badasses that will be able to take on the enemy all by themselves and wipe them all out. I am also sure there are a few more on other boards. So, I figure I'm covered.


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## M118LR

It seems the Older I get the easier it is to perform the slow motions utilized stalking or re-positioning without drawing undue attention to my changes in location. Sometimes speed really does kill! It's easier to spot a rabbit racing across the yard than a turtle. JMHO.


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## Smitty901

No old to tired for the bad ass thing. If it comes down to it I will just shoot them. That I can still do. Hope it don't come to that.


----------



## A Watchman

inceptor said:


> Everything depends on the scenario. A very old saying is "If you want to make God laugh, tell him what your plans are."
> 
> We have tried to get out of the burbs several times. Each time the rug was pulled out from under us. So, I plan to stay here and see what transpires. If we have to go then I will. Until then, well, here I'll be. If I go down, it won't be cowering. I just don't seem to cower well. AND I won't just lay down and die. I will deal with what I have to when I have to. When God says it's time to come home, then I'll go knowing full well I did my best.


I like this, as I have learned to live it. Notice my tag line referring to MY journey. I remember I used to have great plans for God and I, all for his good and perfect will I thought. The only problem was I often had to stop and turn around looking back to say " God, are you coming".

Through time, I learned to stop, be still and listen. I am a Watchman and I will enjoy the journey that God has prepared for ME.


----------



## inceptor

A Watchman said:


> Through time, I learned to stop, be still and listen. I am a Watchman and I will enjoy the journey that God has prepared for ME.


Same here. He's a lot smarter than I am.


----------



## M118LR

Bad ass, He's a lot smarter & has a plan for me, I'm to Old & feeble, this is where I make my final stand; either you do what needs to be done without hesitation when it needs to be done or your a casualty. In the middle of a fire you either crawl along the floor and drag the kids out of the burning house or you make excuses why you failed to act during the critical moment should you survive by some chance of fate. I hear the term "Will to Survive" bantered about, but the definition of "Will to survive" is doing whatever is needed when it is needed in order to survive. JMHO. Yes, God has a plan. I've also heard that God helps them that help themselves. When a task needs to be performed you either do it or you fail!


----------



## inceptor

M118LR said:


> either you do what needs to be done without hesitation when it needs to be done or your a casualty.


If you ACTUALLY paid attention, that was pretty much what I said I would do. It's too bad you decided to focus on other parts. smh


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## rice paddy daddy

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matthew 6:19-21 (NIV)


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.


----------



## M118LR

All Scripture has it's place. I find my solace in Matthew chapter 6, 1-15. Sorry If you took a general statement personally inceptor.


----------



## inceptor

M118LR said:


> All Scripture has it's place. I find my solace in Matthew chapter 6, 1-15. Sorry If you took a general statement personally inceptor.


That really is one of my favorites. It's not often that I share my faith although Christ did say we should. *Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."*
My brother was much better at that than I could ever hope to be. And there is *Matthew 28 19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."*

But, I am also not ashamed of it either and don't mind a discussion on it.


----------



## A Watchman

Prepared One said:


> Age forces certain realities. I am not ex military or a *a super ninja dude of death and destruction*.


My fellow Texan just to the south is being very humble. Do not venture uninvited onto his property during an "event". You will find yourself face to face with a super ninja dude of death and destruction.


----------



## A Watchman

M118LR said:


> Bad ass, He's a lot smarter & has a plan for me, I'm to Old & feeble, this is where I make my final stand; either you do what needs to be done without hesitation when it needs to be done or your a casualty. In the middle of a fire you either crawl along the floor and drag the kids out of the burning house or you make excuses why you failed to act during the critical moment should you survive by some chance of fate. I hear the term "Will to Survive" bantered about, but the definition of "Will to survive" is doing whatever is needed when it is needed in order to survive. JMHO. Yes, God has a plan. I've also heard that God helps them that help themselves. When a task needs to be performed you either do it or you fail!


M118LR, we are in agreeance "that either you do what needs to be done without hesitation when it needs to be done or your a casualty". However, you appear to have missed the real and most important point from a much broader worldview, considering the role and responsibility we all bear. Consider the two following statements:

You seem to prefer "sailor speak" so .... If you think you are he captain of your own ship, you have already sunk.

Here it is in "my speak" ..... "The man that walks with God, always gets to his destination".


----------



## Operator6

Im waiting on the scripture that says I shouldn't have a bug out bag. I'm sure someone here could twist the Bible into saying that if they wanted to believe it. 

Most people like to take parts of the Bible and apply it out of context to whatever argument they're trying to
make......in the same breath they talk about protecting their food and land with guns. What happened to sharing with a brother in need ?

Maybe our military should take the wheels off the trucks and the tracks off the tanks..........ground the Airforce. No need to go anywhere.....

I'd rather put the Bible in my BOB, leave and live to read it.

I think the few here that say they will not leave probably can't leave and just don't want to say that. 

Not being mobile is a handicap, no doubt. 

Goodluck !


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Operator6 said:


> Im waiting on the scripture that says I shouldn't have a bug out bag. I'm sure someone here could twist the Bible into saying that if they wanted to believe it.
> 
> Most people like to take parts of the Bible and apply it out of context to whatever argument they're trying to
> make......in the same breath they talk about protecting their food and land with guns. What happened to sharing with a brother in need ?
> 
> Maybe our military should take the wheels off the trucks and the tracks off the tanks..........ground the Airforce. No need to go anywhere.....
> 
> I'd rather put the Bible in my BOB, leave and live to read it.
> 
> I think the few here that say they will not leave probably can't leave and just don't want to say that.
> 
> Not being mobile is a handicap, no doubt.
> 
> Goodluck !


Jesus never said you should not have a "bug out bag", nor did he say you should not have a weapon.

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
Luke 22:35-36 (NIV)


----------



## Operator6

I think I've made my point quite well. Survival is the name of the game, not staying home to die. 

Have a great holiday weekend !


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Yep. Me too. Time for chores, gotta go.
It is 8:45 AM, the horses have been turned out for the day, and it's time for me to go fork the manure out of the stalls.:vs_poop:

:vs_wave:


----------



## inceptor

Operator6 said:


> Im waiting on the scripture that says I shouldn't have a bug out bag. I'm sure someone here could twist the Bible into saying that if they wanted to believe it.
> 
> Most people like to take parts of the Bible and apply it out of context to whatever argument they're trying to
> make......in the same breath they talk about protecting their food and land with guns. What happened to sharing with a brother in need ?
> 
> Maybe our military should take the wheels off the trucks and the tracks off the tanks..........ground the Airforce. No need to go anywhere.....
> 
> I'd rather put the Bible in my BOB, leave and live to read it.
> 
> I think the few here that say they will not leave probably can't leave and just don't want to say that.
> 
> Not being mobile is a handicap, no doubt.
> 
> Goodluck !


Many of us do plan to share. Many of us are not ninja's either. We intend to defend what we have and protect those who need it. Bugging out at the first sign of trouble and becoming a forest ninja is not high on my priority list. I am not a highly trained assassin who the president has on speed dial as some here are.

You assume many of us are candya$$ old people with no idea how to make it past the first hour. The problem is you have no idea who I am or how I got to be who I am. You assume I'm a person who will curl up in a ball and cry if the shtf. You and others can assume all you want, it won't change a thing. One thing I have learned over the years is Christ said to trust him. And I do.

* Mark 5:35 While Jesus was still speaking, some people came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue leader. "Your daughter is dead," they said. "Why bother the teacher anymore?" 36 Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, "Don't be afraid; just believe."*


----------



## Operator6

inceptor said:


> Many of us do plan to share. Many of us are not ninja's either. We intend to defend what we have and protect those who need it. Bugging out at the first sign of trouble and becoming a forest ninja is not high on my priority list. I am not a highly trained assassin who the president has on speed dial as some here are.
> 
> You assume many of us are candya$$ old people with no idea how to make it past the first hour. The problem is you have no idea who I am or how I got to be who I am. You assume I'm a person who will curl up in a ball and cry if the shtf. You and others can assume all you want, it won't change a thing. One thing I have learned over the years is Christ said to trust him. And I do.
> 
> * Mark 5:35 While Jesus was still speaking, some people came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue leader. "Your daughter is dead," they said. "Why bother the teacher anymore?" 36 Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, "Don't be afraid; just believe."*


I read in one of your posts that you would leave if you needed to.

So with that said, I wasn't referring to you in my post you quoted. Sorry to disappoint you.

Have a fun weekend !


----------



## Operator6

inceptor said:


> If we have to go then I will. Until then, well, here I'll be. If I go down, it won't be cowering. I just don't seem to cower well. AND I won't just lay down and die. I will deal with what I have to when I have to. When God says it's time to come home, then I'll go knowing full well I did my best.


^^^^^^ See that ? Some here disagree with US on that........and that's fine.


----------



## gyro_cfi

rice paddy daddy said:


> Jesus never said you should not have a "bug out bag", nor did he say you should not have a weapon.
> 
> Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?"
> "Nothing," they answered.
> He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
> Luke 22:35-36 (NIV)


Context, context, context! In these scriptures Jesus was sending his disciples out to preach the gospel not on a survival situation. The purpose of this was trusting God during the work that he is sending you on.
One can easily find places where God speaks to man in the context of survival: Speaks in a dream to Pharaoh in which Joseph interpret the dream with respect to 7 years of plenty and 7 years of famine; 
Jesus tells his disciples to buy a sword, this because he knows that they will come under threat after he leaves and the Holy Spirit is given (all of them martyred except for John and Judas Iscariot);


----------



## bigwheel

Know what you mean about taking those Bible verses out of context to prove certain points. Dirves me crazy. Thats how certain Church denominations got invented. Proper exegesis is the key to getting it right. 
What is good biblical exegesis?


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Next I'll hear "If it ain't King James it ain't bible."
:vs_lol:


----------



## bigwheel

Not from this section. I now use the Geneva Bible of 1599 (GNV) it commonly called the breeches Bible among the Fundy Baptists. 
Genesis 3:7
Then the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig tree leaves together, and made themselves breeches.

Exodus 28:42
Thou shalt also make them linen breeches to cover their privities: from the loins unto the thighs shall they reach.


----------



## M118LR

I find it better to keep my faith to myself Watchman. I need not, any written words to guide me. Matthew 12: 25-27.


----------



## Smitty901

Still staying put, invested to much time , work and money in this place so we could .


----------



## inceptor

M118LR said:


> I find it better to keep my faith to myself Watchman. I need not, any written words to guide me. Matthew 12: 25-27.


That's fine that you don't but still you quote scripture. And to continue that thought you left Matthew 12:33-37


----------



## Operator6

Here's my private fishing hole. Think there's any Bass in there ?

On second thought, I don't think I'm leavin !!!!!


----------



## inceptor

Operator6 said:


> Here's my private fishing hole. Think there's any Bass in there ?
> 
> On second thought, I don't think I'm leavin !!!!!


Oh now that's sweet. Bass or other wouldn't make a difference to me.


----------



## Operator6

inceptor said:


> Oh now that's sweet. Bass or other wouldn't make a difference to me.


^^^^^^that is 200 yards north of this...vvvvvvv


----------



## M118LR

inceptor said:


> That's fine that you don't but still you quote scripture. And to continue that thought you left Matthew 12:33-37


No, I don't quote scripture. If you give to Caesar that which is Caesars, then you reciprocate Chapter and Verse to those that put forth chapter and verse. Those that attempt to quote from the book need to first live by the book. (failed attempts at best, but it's not my place to judge) Although it has been my experience that there seems to be a shortage of Chaplains in foxholes during a time of crisis. In the depths of the deepest darkness, the only comfort most Warrior's receive on thier final journey seems to come from the fellow sinner that others call a "Brother in Arms". Usually to the accompaniment of every half hour rescue course that the fellow sinner ever was scheduled for. JMHO. You might need to make a trip to the library when I decide reference the Torah? I only attempt to find common ground with those that display a flair for the emphatic.


----------



## inceptor

M118LR said:


> No, I don't quote scripture. If you give to Caesar that which is Caesars, then you reciprocate Chapter and Verse to those that put forth chapter and verse. Those that attempt to quote from the book need to first live by the book. (failed attempts at best, but it's not my place to judge) Although it has been my experience that there seems to be a shortage of Chaplains in foxholes during a time of crisis. In the depths of the deepest darkness, the only comfort most Warrior's receive on thier final journey seems to come from the fellow sinner that others call a "Brother in Arms". Usually to the accompaniment of every half hour rescue course that the fellow sinner ever was scheduled for. JMHO. You might need to make a trip to the library when I decide reference the Torah? I only attempt to find common ground with those that display a flair for the emphatic.


I actually own a copy of the Torah. And yes, I have read it. I wanted to compare the 2. But you weren't quoting the Torah nor the Old Testament.

I am probably one of the least perfect around here. I have more faults than a few. I do try to live by the Word but I also have a tendency to stumble a lot. I admit I'm a sinner but thankfully I'm also forgiven.

I am not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination and belong to no denomination. My brother was much better at preaching the gospel than I could ever hope to be. What I have learn has been mostly on my own. I also admit I'm not the sharpest tack in the box so arguing with you would not accomplish much. But I do stand by what I have learned. See, to me what Christ taught was common sense * "for a tree is recognized by its fruit"* and to me, this is common sense.

I am not a trained warrior, nor a ninja, I'm not a highly skilled assassin and have never been in the military. The president and joint chiefs don't have me on speed dial. Hell, they don't even know who I am. So I understand I am not in your league. But I'm okay with that. I could also give a rats ass whether you like or respect me. I'm just an ordinary guy and I understand your disdain for my type. I'm okay with that too.


----------



## Smitty901

We put a lot of time into deciding what we needed and would do and where we would do it. Wisconsin is a place that can provide all of your needs . This place how ever gets cold we have winters here. If you are not ready for them you will not make it. Winter is a major reason many do not stay here. Wisconsin will not be a place the hoards will be heading to but from.
Our families came here and made it with no electricity . We figured out we could do the same if we worked at it. The current generation is the first not to make the primary living off of the farm. As I have said before it became clear that one family would not have the resources to provide the needed security and labor to make it all work. We addressed that. No plan is prefect but it gives you a great head start. Ours was always to stay here. Avoid others and wait out the storm.
Storing up food is easy for a short term natural disaster but long term you better be growing replacement food asap. We can do that that with ease. Water is never an issue here. 
Stay put or walk out you will spend a large part of your time ensuring you have food. Here we know how to provide all the food we and others will need. Walking around or staying put requires different ways to provide security. We are more comfortable with our plan. Coming up on 30 years we have been looking at this, while plans have been tweaked the goal has stayed the same.
If we lived in Milwaukee it would be a different plan for sure . Get out of town asap would be number one.


----------



## bigwheel

M118LR said:


> I find it better to keep my faith to myself Watchman. I need not, any written words to guide me. Matthew 12: 25-27.


Dear old Saint Peter has some good advice for shy soul winners.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and reverence.


----------



## gyro_cfi

Operator6 said:


> Here's my private fishing hole. Think there's any Bass in there ?
> 
> On second thought, I don't think I'm leavin !!!!!


That is nice. Just got me curious and started looking at "acreage and farms" for sale. Fould a spring fed pond on 50 acres at $150k in TN. Never thought about doing that, having a fishing hole all my own.


----------



## A Watchman

inceptor said:


> I am probably one of the least perfect around here. I have more faults than a few. I do try to live by the Word but I also have a tendency to stumble a lot. I admit I'm a sinner but thankfully I'm also forgiven.
> See, to me what Christ taught was common sense * "for a tree is recognized by its fruit"* and to me, this is common sense.
> 
> I am not a trained warrior, nor a ninja, I'm not a highly skilled assassin and have never been in the military. The president and joint chiefs don't have me on speed dial. Hell, they don't even know who I am. So I understand I am not in your league. But I'm okay with that. I could also give a rats ass whether you like or respect me. I'm just an ordinary guy and I understand your disdain for my type. I'm okay with that too.


Ahhhh, but isn't this the real point? Christians take a hard knock for not being perfect. The Bible and the blood of Christ, give a remedy for a sinful nature, albeit not a license to sin.

Reminds me of an old sayin " the main thing wrong with Churches is that they are filled with people". Go figure huh?

I stumble myself .... often. However, I will choose to stand with inceptor in the light.


----------



## Smitty901

As a Christian I know I am a sinner, I know what sin is. I know I am forgiven, I know salvation comes from faith, and faith with out works is dead. Weather or not others agree or disagree with that is meaningless. I can chose not to answer to man, but I will answer to God. So again today I will give thanks for grace, the only chance I have.


----------



## tc556guy

SOCOM42 said:


> This is true, they will come back, but they will be on the 19th century model.
> 
> Just how long do you think it will take for them to be restored to any level of trade as we know them?
> 
> There will be no products to move in those hubs, the availability of them will be the determining factor.
> 
> Those centers slowly evolved over the first 100 years,
> 
> their expansion to modern levels took another 100 at an incremental level based on several factors, such as technology, railroads and trucking.
> 
> Dependent on the type and scope of an event, they could be reduced to the colonial model of the northeast, basically a fishing village.
> 
> I have studied the industrial evolution in the country, the items that allowed the expansion are non existent today.
> 
> Half of the people will die off because the will be no way to sustain them.
> 
> If a collapse occurred in say 1939, the recovery would be a breeze compared to today, we were early on in our hydrocarbon based social structure.
> 
> The countries production was based on steam and hydro power at a local level, none of that material exist today and neither do the draft animals at a usable level.


Yup, that's why I said they wouldn't be what we have today
There will always be those willing to move people and goods, and those types will by necessity gravitate towards whatever commercial centers exist
How long it would take those centers to build up would depend on whatever problems society experienced that broke down what we have,
I also agree that any a calamity from the 1930s would have been better weathered than in todays society.
In the 30s half of the population was still tied to farming, and the rural areas hadn't even been tied into the electrical grid.
It was normal in our rural areas here right up til the 50s for farmers to be cut off by winter storms for a week or more.
Now everyone expects the roads to be bare of snow within 8 hours so they can drive 70 MPH


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## tc556guy

Smitty901 said:


> When you stay put, you can't just lock the gate. Assaults from the outside will in time wear you down and defeat you. You must have way to defend from the outside also . If you do then you can ride it out.
> Staying put requires a place many would want to stay away from. Cold is an example. Having a good buffer zone . A place where you can raise and hang on to the food you need. No one knows your yard like you do big advantage. Out walking around stick a target on you back. You may likely be in someone else yard.


Much harder to expect a small family or group unit to adequately defend themselves in place. On the frontier of 17th-19th century North America isolated families were never a match for hostile Native Americans. Strength in numbers for defense purposes.


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## Slippy

tc556guy said:


> Much harder to expect a small family or group unit to adequately defend themselves in place. On the frontier of 17th-19th century North America isolated families were never a match for hostile Native Americans. Strength in numbers for defense purposes.


I'm a native American, born in the USA. Did you mean ****** or redskins?


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## Smitty901

tc556guy said:


> Much harder to expect a small family or group unit to adequately defend themselves in place. On the frontier of 17th-19th century North America isolated families were never a match for hostile Native Americans. Strength in numbers for defense purposes.


 They were not well armed and in most case not experienced, We are. Generally speaking never go after a dug in position with out at least 3 to 1 and expect losses.


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## Denton

Bug out or stay put?

I have plans of action for the various situations; some plans require staying put while others require moving out.

The one thing I do expect of all my plans is that they have flaws that I won't recognize until the moment of implementation.


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## bigwheel

tc556guy said:


> Much harder to expect a small family or group unit to adequately defend themselves in place. On the frontier of 17th-19th century North America isolated families were never a match for hostile Native Americans. Strength in numbers for defense purposes.


Good point. Glad Choctaws did not act like that.


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## inceptor

tc556guy said:


> isolated families were never a match for hostile Native Americans. Strength in numbers for defense purposes.


I think the Native Americans were merely defending their home land. I know it's a mute point now but..........


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## inceptor

I mean the victors write the history. Who's to say La Raza won't be triumphant and in say 100 years will have written stories stating how the savage ******'s attacked their innocent families and how they had to gather together to defend themselves.


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## Slippy

inceptor said:


> I think the Native Americans were merely defending their home land. I know it's a mute point now but..........


Near where I grew up was the Poarch Band of Creek Indians. The only thing they will take is your money. It always cracks me up to see a full blood ***** speak with a southern accent.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

comes down to keeping ALL options on the table..... I could flee the homestead if need be, but in middle of a ND winter? where am I going to go? yes in the event of a Royal Flush (SHTF) I will have a few backup hideouts/fall back positions that will keep my family alive for a bit if wee have to surrender the Alamo. but being a wandering vagabond who could be shot at will by possibly MILLIONS of other wandering vagabonds makes little sense to me... but then again, I have a better location than many.


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## Stick

I, too, chose a place where these what-ifs are not an issue. I bugged out years ago. I'm not going anywhere.


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## 1skrewsloose

If I bug out with no undiscovered retreat, where will I go-do? All my preps are at home. I stay put, no way I can carry my preps and arms. Till the last dog is hung!


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## inceptor

1skrewsloose said:


> If I bug out with no undiscovered retreat, where will I go-do? All my preps are at home. I stay put, no way I can carry my preps and arms. Till the last dog is hung!


I learned a long time ago, ya never say never.

You can say I will do my utmost to prevent it but you never say never.


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## M118LR

inceptor said:


> I actually own a copy of the Torah. And yes, I have read it. I wanted to compare the 2. But you weren't quoting the Torah nor the Old Testament.
> 
> I am not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination and belong to no denomination.
> 
> I am not a trained warrior, nor a ninja, I'm not a highly skilled assassin and have never been in the military. The president and joint chiefs don't have me on speed dial. Hell, they don't even know who I am. So I understand I am not in your league. But I'm okay with that. I could also give a rats ass whether you like or respect me. I'm just an ordinary guy and I understand your disdain for my type. I'm okay with that too.


I am not sure what League you think I'm in inceptor?

I have no disdain for the ordinary. Most of those that I served with never tasted from "The Silver Spoon", nor felt comfortable inserted into any "Grandiose Arenas".

Without your hard earned Tax Dollars most of US that served wouldn't have been trained warriors. Yes I had the opportunity to serve in the military, so have many others. I don't believe that there are many surviving Unskilled assassins? I'm not sure if the president or the joint chiefs even had speed dial during the years I served, but I received more one way communications from the Chief of Naval Operations than were to my liking.

But the crux of this biscuit is adaptation. So I agree with your "never say never" statement.


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## inceptor

M118LR said:


> I am not sure what League you think I'm in inceptor?
> 
> I have no disdain for the ordinary. Most of those that I served with never tasted from "The Silver Spoon", nor felt comfortable inserted into any "Grandiose Arenas".
> 
> Without your hard earned Tax Dollars most of US that served wouldn't have been trained warriors. Yes I had the opportunity to serve in the military, so have many others. I don't believe that there are many surviving Unskilled assassins? I'm not sure if the president or the joint chiefs even had speed dial during the years I served, but I received more one way communications from the Chief of Naval Operations than were to my liking.
> 
> But the crux of this biscuit is adaptation. So I agree with your "never say never" statement.


I made the call from the way you talk to people. And you're opinion of yourself that's out there. But I can tell you I've been wrong before. The jury is still out on this one so we will see if I'm wrong or not.

I have absolutely no say where my tax dollars are spend but funding the military has never been an issue for me. Some of the people I respect a lot are ex-military and there are more than a few here. Others here, like me, have never been military. There are those here I respect also. It wasn't because I didn't try to get in, at the intake center they classified me 4-F. Those who still serve, those who made it out and those who never made it home have a place in my heart. Also, at least to me, respect is earned, not just given freely.

My comments were based on what you have said so far, nothing else. And that's how I interpreted it. And I don't think I'm the only one. There are good and bad in all walks of life. I try to be respectful but sometime the sarcastic and asshole make there way out. I'm good at both, it's a talent I have. I was neither with you. I just stated what I gleaned from your statements.

BTW, did you ever look up what inceptor means? I'll make it easy. It's an old English word meaning one who is always learning. That's part of the reason I'm here.


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## M118LR

Does this mean I can't call you George anymore? 

Remember, all you have is your perception of what you thought I typed. My opinion of myself is really simple, all I fear is failure. Long ago I learned that the mind can make the body do things far beyond comfortable. But as long as the spirit is willing, you can find a way. As to any jury, I've had to march to my own tune for far to long to hold anyone else to the standards that I demand of myself. But I will freely admit that I take far too many things for granted (or leave them unspoken) when responding. 

Example: Don Carter was an exceptional Professional Bowler. He took 3 steps to deliver a bowling ball. Go to any bowling alley and observe how many bowlers deliver the ball taking only 3 steps? (Not 4 or 5.) In his day Don Carter was almost unbeatable, yet you almost always see 4 or 5 step bowlers. Even in my example I take for granted that you have bowled inceptor.


ps: when you figure out how to formulate your questions inceptor, I'll do my best to give simple answers.


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## rthomp77

My plan is to stay in until there is a better option or my bug in option is done. My home is where my family is most comfortable and it is the place I am most comfortable defending. There are an infinite amount of variables that could change that plan and I do have two or three locations go to if the situations arises. My ultimate goal would be to work my way back home.


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## inceptor

M118LR said:


> Does this mean I can't call you George anymore?


Yes you can still call me George. I don't want to make it too hard on you.



M118LR said:


> Remember, all you have is your perception of what you thought I typed. My opinion of myself is really simple, all I fear is failure. Long ago I learned that the mind can make the body do things far beyond comfortable. But as long as the spirit is willing, you can find a way. As to any jury, I've had to march to my own tune for far to long to hold anyone else to the standards that I demand of myself. But I will freely admit that I take far too many things for granted (or leave them unspoken) when responding.
> 
> Example: Don Carter was an exceptional Professional Bowler. He took 3 steps to deliver a bowling ball. Go to any bowling alley and observe how many bowlers deliver the ball taking only 3 steps? (Not 4 or 5.) In his day Don Carter was almost unbeatable, yet you almost always see 4 or 5 step bowlers. Even in my example I take for granted that you have bowled inceptor.
> 
> ps: when you figure out how to formulate your questions inceptor, I'll do my best to give simple answers.


My perception is what it is. Maybe I miss read but I don't think so. My comments were how you talked to others and how I perceived it. I don't think I'm alone there either. But, you are who you are.

Yes I have bowled in the past.

I have no questions for you at this time nor did I before. But simple answers are probably good since I'm not the brightest bulb in the pack if a question should surface.


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## M118LR

I do have a couple of things that have made me go Hmmm.

I agree that everyone should have preparations to shelter in place during most emergencies. Some natural disasters might be of the evacuation type, short term. But there is a difference between shelter in place and withstanding a siege. Without the expectation of a superior force arriving to disburse those laying siege to the castle, the only conclusion is extermination via slow attrition. So once the UN white armored vehicles start rolling in, or the barbarian horde encircles the Old Homestead, just how sturdy is the Castle's Keep? Being military I'd expect to take up arms with any US Armed Services that showed up at my door. 

I've repetitively heard that folks live in areas that you can't take a shot over 100 yards, next time they are cleaning their gutters I recommend taking their field glasses up on the ladder with them. How far away is the top of the tallest tree that you can see with your field glasses? When you come under siege you can bet that an armed assailant is going to eventually climb up there. How much of your siege planning takes into account your inability to project beyond an over-run attack? That's if you can't be burned or blasted out of the Castle. 

So I hope you glean that part of sniper training is counter sniper training along with threat evaluation etc inceptor. If my delivery is a bit coarse, please calk it up to droll excessive government training.

But on the lighter side, had you ever witnessed a 3 step bowler or watched Don Carter bowl? Did my example give you an opportunity to research and open another door to knowledge? Even though the subject was something as mundane as bowling. But I had hoped that we could reach a point in our conversation that we could discuss a common experience. Even though I once again was guilty of taking the mundane for granted.


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## inceptor

M118LR said:


> I do have a couple of things that have made me go Hmmm.
> 
> I agree that everyone should have preparations to shelter in place during most emergencies. Some natural disasters might be of the evacuation type, short term. But there is a difference between shelter in place and withstanding a siege. Without the expectation of a superior force arriving to disburse those laying siege to the castle, the only conclusion is extermination via slow attrition. So once the UN white armored vehicles start rolling in, or the barbarian horde encircles the Old Homestead, just how sturdy is the Castle's Keep? Being military I'd expect to take up arms with any US Armed Services that showed up at my door.
> 
> I've repetitively heard that folks live in areas that you can't take a shot over 100 yards, next time they are cleaning their gutters I recommend taking their field glasses up on the ladder with them. How far away is the top of the tallest tree that you can see with your field glasses? When you come under siege you can bet that an armed assailant is going to eventually climb up there. How much of your siege planning takes into account your inability to project beyond an over-run attack? That's if you can't be burned or blasted out of the Castle.
> 
> So I hope you glean that part of sniper training is counter sniper training along with threat evaluation etc inceptor. If my delivery is a bit coarse, please calk it up to droll excessive government training.
> 
> But on the lighter side, had you ever witnessed a 3 step bowler or watched Don Carter bowl? Did my example give you an opportunity to research and open another door to knowledge? Even though the subject was something as mundane as bowling. But I had hoped that we could reach a point in our conversation that we could discuss a common experience. Even though I once again was guilty of taking the mundane for granted.


I haven't bowled since I was in my 20's so having a conversation there, well we are talking ancient history.

I do get your point on being a sniper. Although if you have followed much of what I have posted, you will know I am new to rifles. If you weren't a 2 days drive (I'm guessing by your listed location) I would be open to buying you lunch a taking a lesson or two.

Also, if you have read what I posted, you would know I'm not that locked in here. I could go if I had to but, I hit 64 this month, have had knee replacement surgery and work behind a computer all day. So, in shape I'm not. Oh, don't get me wrong, I do have a shape but not one that's likely going on the cover of GQ.


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## Fuser1983

I often debate my bug in/out options. I think I've come to the conclusion that initially the plan is always to bug in. I've got enough supplies to last me through a small event. If the event becomes long-term and staying put is no longer an option, we have a secluded lake house that we will try to get to. I say "try" because it is 90 miles away and we'd have to drive through small communities and down narrow roads which could easily be blocked by locals. So if plan B fails I definitely need a plan C. I don't have a plan C yet. And of course this is assuming we're not dealing with an EMP scenario in which our transportation becomes useless. I have however have some bicycles that could be used as transportation in that case, but 90 miles would be a long way to go on a bikes, with a baby, a wife, and a dog, plus supplies.


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## Dirk Pitt

According to the TV show "The Walking Dead" neither way is successful, they have tried to stay put and go out on their own and it always ends in some kind of mess. I am kidding about the TV show being experts but I have to admit it does show the plus and minus of each act. They have found out that staying put Is OK as long as you have enough bodies that are capable and willing to defend it, that seems to be a big factor, both of those factors come into play. You would think the willing part would be a no brainer but some folks just won't do anything to harm anyone even if they are harming you and your family. I don't get that part at all.


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## Fuser1983

Dirk Pitt said:


> According to the TV show "The Walking Dead" neither way is successful... I don't get that part at all.


I don't get that either. My wife is fully prepared to defend herself and now that we have a child she's all the more motivated. But I agree, strength is in numbers as far as being able to defend your location.


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## rice paddy daddy




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## jimLE

i agree with Way too many variables.on account,everyone's situation is different,in some way or another..one person/family might be able to bug in/stay put and hunker down.on while someone else or a family just down the road has to get out,and fast.then there's the ones that are far enough out and away from others.they can stay put.but yet.everyone needs a bug out plan.and that bug out plan needs as many bug out routes as possible..and as for as being a nomad goes.id say bad idea.one wrong move,one bad decision,staying in one place for the night or day,could get you injured or killed.on account you'll not only will have people who will do what ever to get what you have,but you'll have wild life to contend with as well..i live 6 miles outside of a town,just over 1200.in which i see it in a realistic way.i figure no more then one forth of them will survive a shtf situation.i even doubt some will survive a 4 week power outage,when it comes to meds that keep them alive.to heat in the summer,and cold in the winter.the ones that survive will leave town for a safe and better place to live.and that means,at least some of them will come down this road..then there's the folks that live on this road as well..i cant and wont trust some of them to have my back in a bad situation.as a saying goes.anyone who will get you killed is a enemy,no matter which side their on.so bugging out when the time comes,is a no choice for me.even if i was living in what i consider a prime location,where i don't even have to consider bugging out.i'd still have a bug out plan,with several bug out routes,just to be on the safe side.on account.better safe then sorry,on account,sorry can get me killed..i was raised a christen,but aint been to a church in years,but yet i do remember 2 things.1st,some thing along the lines of,Jesus/god says he will do for you,if you believe and trust in him.2nd is,he says you must do and provide for your household as well as your self..
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
-- 1 Timothy 5:8


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## Maol9

gyro_cfi said:


> Unfortunately, I'm always far from my home (1500 miles far). I prep to get back home or to the nearest relatives place in that direction.


We are in the same situation. We have to go where the work is.

We have a temporary BOL and it is seriously temporary. Way to close to the coast and sheeple. We are working on getting another truck and trailer to help out with the BO. We know that time is critical and we will have to do it all in one push, and we won't be the only ones doing this. Sometimes I think half of the people from back home work out of state. I know my oldest has no choice like us, work or starve. Definitely other members of the family now gone years ago will becoming home too. We try to think about them and prep accordingly, some of them are are into prepping as well. Most all have far less to travel and we hope to see them there when we arrive. But...

"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson


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