# If EMP/SHTF/TEOTWAWKI happened today?



## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

AJ was here.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

I would be more worried about a financial meltdown like hyperinflation than EMP. I think the financial threat is way more imminent than an overt attack. That being said, I often think about what I would miss or would be hard to get in a hyperinflationary situation or even total economic collapse and try to stock up on those sorts of things. Food, water, ammo (even if I don't own the caliber gun it goes to), secondary means of generating electricity and heat and so on.... No matter what you buy now, you are getting it at a steep discount compared to what it will cost you after the fact.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

We have Buffalo-style snowfall here today (Yes, I wished for it last night haha), we are juuuust fine  Already shovelled 6 times. Checked on my elderly neighbours and brought them more goodies.

Honestly, Winter weather is really what I'm prepping for.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

In truth, you'll never be ready.
None of us will.
We play the scenarios out in our heads trying to plan for what we think we will need, but we can't be fully ready for what that type of situation will really be.

If it happened today, I'd see if my truck in the lot still ran. If so, try to drive home on backroads. If not, pull out the GHB, wool blanket, and sidearm, and start beatin' feet.
If the truck didn't work, very little chance the cell or the radio would, so I would be out of touch with family until I could get to them.
I have tried to prepare myself for that situation, but they would likely not fare as well. I still have the feeling that my wife would panic and maybe not think clearly, just because communication is not immediate.
She works close to home, so getting back there would not be much of an issue, aside from the complaining of the kids.
Once there, she'd have everything she needs for about a month. I'd show up some time over the next few days, assess the situation, fortify if things started to deteriorate, and begin a life of quite solitude until the supplies and local resources ran out.
At that point... I don't really know yet.
I don't want to watch my children suffer.............

In truth, you'll never be ready...


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## videodork (Dec 8, 2014)

A J said:


> Do you all perform this mental exercise often?
> 
> AJ


Mostly about 3 a.m.......


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Time to shovel again


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

One can never be totally prepared for everything. Once it hits there will always be something you wished you had done. Best you can do is prepare thoroughly for the basics based on most likely scenarios and work out from there. I often run through my head while on the road...."what if's" and always think of something that can be done or things done that can be improved.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

TorontoGal said:


> Time to shovel again


I remember those times from my Chicago days......Don't miss that.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

So I guess the question would be (and would help us all out), what items do you have 'undone' ?

That list would be instructive for all of us.

AJ


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

My first challenge would be escaping from NYC, . . . For the third time.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Diver said:


> My first challenge would be escaping from NYC, . . . For the third time.


If I lived in NYC I would start that process now.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Diver said:


> My first challenge would be escaping from NYC, . . . For the third time.


Snake Plissken?
Is that you?


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

if it happened today..... Id be ok for the most part if allowed to stay put. If not allowed to stay put all bets off its winter here and now the crucial decision making process would come into play. What are the roads like ? Can we get to the alternate location safely? Do we have to hike it or can we take the truck? is there time to load the truck? 

Frankly today id be screwed my wife and I are both having major back issues she might need surgery So today you might find me laying in a pile of my own hot brass!


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

A J said:


> I was drinking a cup of coffee this morning, looking outside as the sun came up and a thought crossed my mind.
> 
> What if "it" happened today? Am I ready? What will I wish I'd have done differently?
> 
> ...


Did you sneak into my house and write this? Yes at least a few times a week I think about "what if" , keeps me on my toes and once in awhile I come up with something to tweek or to add.


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Snake Plissken?
> Is that you?


Snake Plisskin? I thought he was dead...


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

TorontoGal said:


> Time to shovel again


I just dropped a grand into a shiny new snow thrower... which means we'll get nothing but rain here all winter.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Not prepared yet for an EMP, but I don't think it is all that probable. I'm more concerned about the Really big CME like back in 2012 that hits the earth. With the Geomagnetic storm it could produce, we would be in deep $hit. The world would be shut down with no electric power for years and years. And since everything in the modern world uses electricity, I could see a die off of nearly half the US population in 30 days. The pundits say a 90% die off in the US in a year. Personally I'd say 3-4 months. Forgetting the lack of water. any one who needs medicine to live will die in the early days. Since we no longer build the transformers that would be damaged, well let's say China would really have US over a barrel.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

paraquack said:


> Not prepared yet for an EMP, but I don't think it is all that probable. I'm more concerned about the Really big CME like back in 2012 that hits the earth. With the Geomagnetic storm it could produce, we would be in deep $hit. The world would be shut down with no electric power for years and years. And since everything in the modern world uses electricity, I could see a die off of nearly half the US population in 30 days. The pundits say a 90% die off in the US in a year. Personally I'd say 3-4 months. Forgetting the lack of water. any one who needs medicine to live will die in the early days. Since we no longer build the transformers that would be damaged, well let's say China would really have US over a barrel.


forgive my ignorance, but why would a CME create a loss of water?


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Given that I woke up 1000 miles from home this morning, I really hope it does not happen today. That would be a long damn walk.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

One hour after shovelling around the wheels LOL :21:


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

TorontoGal said:


> One hour after shovelling around the wheels LOL :21:


You asked for it last night. I warned you :lol:

Be safe,

AJ


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

A J said:


> You asked for it last night. I warned you :lol:
> 
> Be safe,
> 
> AJ


hahaha I know :21:
I'm ok, thanks! Lots of neighbours are out helping each-other shovel


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

rjd25 said:


> forgive my ignorance, but why would a CME create a loss of water?


A large MCE *creating a Geomagnetic storm* would basically destroy the electric grid by "frying" the giant transformers in use, all over the world. The US no longer manufactures them. If you destroy the grid, water for 95% of the US can't be pumped out of the ground, purifed, or pumped up into the water towers for distribution. Only those who have a pond, lake, river, etc. and the ability to purify it would survive. Down here in AZ, I'd be looking at hard times. I can't think of very much that doesn't need electricity to operate, gas pumps, refineries, oil well pumps, Communications systems, the cascade would be total.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

paraquack said:


> A large MCE *creating a Geomagnetic storm* would basically destroy the electric grid by "frying" the giant transformers in use, all over the world. The US no longer manufactures them. If you destroy the grid, water for 95% of the US can't be pumped out of the ground, purifed, or pumped up into the water towers for distribution. Only those who have a pond, lake, river, etc. and the ability to purify it would survive. Down here in AZ, I'd be looking at hard times. I can't think of very much that doesn't need electricity to operate, gas pumps, refineries, oil well pumps, Communications systems, the cascade would be total.


Ah ok, so it wouldn't affect the water per se just your ability to get it. I have a well, generator and a cardboard box/aluminum foil faraday cage that my genny sits under for storage. I think I will be ok!


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

How many gallons of fuel you got? Because you'll need to find an alternative for when you run out. Here's one I hope to build.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/fema.woodgas.pdf


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Well, if an EMP happened today it would SUCK.

My wife is at work 25 miles from home, but she has a GHB, she's very fit and she has a bicycle at her office. She would be home in 3 hours or less (since it's cold... on a warm day with no traffic that's about an hour and twenty minute bike ride for her (she is a cyclist). 

I am 4 blocks from home, and healthy enough to walk those 4 blocks  I have a GHB in my car which would go home with me (as additional supplies). 

FOOD? Check, plenty. Lots.
WATER? Check. Multiple redundant purification systems. Cistern. Water barrels. Downspout collection system. Pond within easy walking distance. 
HEAT? Check (enough propane to last the winter, two winters if we are extremely conservative, heater that does not require electricity). 
BULLETS? Plenty
GUNS? Are you kidding me?
MEDICINE? Not very good but we are where we can be (we do have a decent supply of antibiotics, and of course all the over the counter stuff in quantity and in date)
SEEDS? Good (all heirloom)
GASOLINE? Won't need any, don't have anything gas powered other than the cars.
RECHARGEABLES? Check, and solar charging systems all put in EMP proof containers.
ELECTRONICS? All essentials put in EMP proof containers.
BICYCLES & TRAILERS? Check, plenty of good new spare tires and tubes

Not perfect, at all... but not as bad as most sheeple.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

paraquack said:


> How many gallons of fuel you got? Because you'll need to find an alternative for when you run out. Here's one I hope to build.
> http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/fema.woodgas.pdf


I posted on another thread about the gasifier I want to build. It is somewhere on here...


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

So it happened right this second....

I am as ready as I'm going to be....

If it happenes tomorrow, I'm going to be slightly more ready (catch the picture) 

No one here can predict or control when the event may happen... So no point overly worrying about it, we all have the same goal, TO SURVIVE... 

So am I 100% ready?? Hell no, there is always more I can do, am I more prepared than the average person, (IMHO if your a member of this forum you're more prepared than the average person) so yes, will I survive the initial effects?? I hope so, will I survive for a long period of time... Well thats up to God....

Now in English... Think, plan, run those little scenarios, plan some more, and remember you can only control your reaction, and if if happens don't regret not getting that extra can of beans, we have all done this within our means


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

1) Cartella house looted and sad for them bas#! [email protected]
2) Cartella money to grocers, gas & pharmacy
3) Home to garden a little and get a nap in.

But...by the time it happens, trash will be running wild and killing will be rampant so cartella will be on gaurd. Alas ~


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

TorontoGal said:


> We have Buffalo-style snowfall here today (Yes, I wished for it last night haha), we are juuuust fine  Already shovelled 6 times. Checked on my elderly neighbours and brought them more goodies.
> 
> Honestly, Winter weather is really what I'm prepping for.


What is buffalo-style snowfall? Forgive my ignorance in these matters after all I live where it never snows.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Snake Plissken?
> Is that you?


Feels that way.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

slewfoot said:


> What is buffalo-style snowfall? Forgive my ignorance in these matters after all I live where it never snows.


Remember what just happened to the city of Buffalo, NY?


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Off to shovel again, another foot of snow lol


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> If I lived in NYC I would start that process now.


I work there, I don't live there. Unfortunately since Manhattan is an island, getting home is complicated during a disaster.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Diver said:


> I work there, I don't live there. Unfortunately since. Manhattan is an island, getting home is complicated during a disaster.


You're a diver... pack a pony bottle and take the water route lol...


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

slewfoot said:


> What is buffalo-style snowfall? Forgive my ignorance in these matters after all I live where it never snows.


Buffalo gets huge amounts of snow, like feet when others get inches. They just had a storm a few weeks ago that dumped as much as 6 feet in places.


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## oldgrouch (Jul 11, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> One can never be totally prepared for everything. Once it hits there will always be something you wished you had done. Best you can do is prepare thoroughly for the basics based on most likely scenarios and work out from there. I often run through my head while on the road...."what if's" and always think of something that can be done or things done that can be improved.


Instead of counting sheep when I go to bed, I think about what I would do if I had a days notice of martial law, economy collapse, etc.---- take two or three K out of the gun safe and hit Walmart, etc. to add to the stores.
What would I get, how much, etc. I usually am asleep in ten minutes


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Wood stove is already running and the house is warm, no electricity needed. Guess I'd fill up the oil lamps. Load a few extra mags. Put some water on the stove to warm up for Tom and Jerry's. Grab a book and enjoy the day. No big deal.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

oddapple said:


> 1) Cartella house looted and sad for them bas#! [email protected]
> 2) Cartella money to grocers, gas & pharmacy
> 3) Home to garden a little and get a nap in.
> 
> But...by the time it happens, trash will be running wild and killing will be rampant so cartella will be on gaurd. Alas ~


That makes more sense than any other post of yours I have read.

I have no idea what you are talking about but I am pretty sure it's nearly in part in English, of a sort...


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> You're a diver... pack a pony bottle and take the water route lol...


This time of year it would take a dry suit and doubles, but I've contemplated the idea.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

oldgrouch said:


> Instead of counting sheep when I go to bed, I think about what I would do if I had a days notice of martial law, economy collapse, etc.---- take two or three K out of the gun safe and hit Walmart, etc. to add to the stores.
> What would I get, how much, etc. I usually am asleep in ten minutes


I simply keep lists. Anything that gives warning, I pull out the list and go. However, I wouldn't expect an EMP with warning.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Wishing and needing are two different things.

I can't say I have everything, can't say there are not many wants on my list (Colt LE 901 for example) but I can see that I have what is needed plus in some cases more. My excesses today will be missed (for example I went to the Oakland Raiders / SF 49ers game last Sunday), but I'll have different excesses after SHTF.

Fundamentally I shifted about 4-5 years ago from prepping into developing a self sustaining lifestyle. Now clearly an NFL game doesn't fit a self sustaining lifestyle, its an excess, but in SHTF I can produce the food I need, the water I need, the energy I need, and defend myself. What more do I need?



Prepared One said:


> One can never be totally prepared for everything. Once it hits there will always be something you wished you had done. Best you can do is prepare thoroughly for the basics based on most likely scenarios and work out from there. I often run through my head while on the road...."what if's" and always think of something that can be done or things done that can be improved.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Diver said:


> This time of year it would take a dry suit and doubles, but I've contemplated the idea.


Doubles are evil&#8230; I sidemount&#8230; I've got short arms and valve drills suck&#8230; then again i do caves, not wreck penetrations...


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Doubles are evil&#8230; I sidemount&#8230; I've got short arms and valve drills suck&#8230; then again i do caves, not wreck penetrations...


The Hudson is open water. To get to the valves with doubles, get horizontal in the water and just tug upward (toward your head) on your harness. That will put the valves in easy reach. If nobody tells you that little trick you can go crazy trying to figure it out. Personally I like steel doubles which gives me just enough weight that I don't need any lead. I then have the dry suit, the BC and a couple lift bags, any one of which can take me up, if I have an issue and put a hole in something.

The guys that do the serious wreck diving around here will have the doubles and carry their deco gas in AL tanks under their arms.

I think we're a bit off the topic though. The main point is if an EMP strikes and you are not at home, the first trick is to get home. In my case that will be challenging as I have to get off the island and I don't carry scuba gear on my daily commute.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Diver said:


> I think we're a bit off the topic though. The main point is if an EMP strikes and you are not at home, the first trick is to get home. In my case that will be challenging as I have to get off the island and I don't carry scuba gear on my daily commute.


How far are you by car/bus/rail/whichever...


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I only started in Aug. I would not be in good condition, but:

- I have food and water that exceeds 72hrs, my guess it 10.77 days of water at 1 gallon per person per day. Plus about 2 weeks regular food then another 2 weeks of basic food.

- I have a generator with about 5 x 2.5 gallon cans of gas. each can could last 10 hour in my gen. I need to run about 4 hours per day to ensure that a medical device that I rely on has a charged battery. But I would not die if I didn't do this.

- I have already gotten past the denial stage with family protection. Did the firearms safety course in Sept. It is supposed to be a 3 month wait for my PAL. I'm looking to buy in Jan or Feb, .22lr . None of this helps me today. Today, I'd be limited to clubs, spears, and homemade bow and arrow. Oh, and my wife has pepper spray in her xmas stocking.

- I have firewood to last me till spring. I have a propane furnace that would last 3-6 weeks without firewood supplementing.

- My camping gear( and other stuff like clothing) is not that bad, I doubt that I have everything but we could get by. However, it isn't prepped into BO bags. Although, it is in one location. Hmm...I'd need about 4-8 hours to mobilize.

- No cash on hand, but I have a few oz of silver coins. ( probably enough to get me another week or two of food)


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

tinkerhell said:


> I only started in Aug. I would not be in good condition, but:
> 
> - I have food and water that exceeds 72hrs, my guess it 10.77 days of water at 1 gallon per person per day. Plus about 2 weeks regular food then another 2 weeks of basic food.
> 
> ...


Couple questions.

1) Regarding the firearm. You are waiting for a pistol right? Could you get a 22 rifle now and also order some ammo? The ammo is getting cheaper and some good deals are to be had (under 10cents/round)
2) If you don't mind me asking, is your medical device a CPAP? That's what I have and need to power. Right now I am using an inverter when the power is out, but in a serious long term outage situation (if the CPAP survived), I'd bypass the inverter and transformer and drive it directly off of DC, as that would be a lot more efficient. If you check your transformer, you can see what the DC output is and figure out how to supply that without the DC -> AC-> DC conversion losses.

AJ


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

A J said:


> Couple questions.
> 
> 1) Regarding the firearm. You are waiting for a pistol right? Could you get a 22 rifle now and also order some ammo? The ammo is getting cheaper and some good deals are to be had (under 10cents/round)
> 2) If you don't mind me asking, is your medical device a CPAP? That's what I have and need to power. Right now I am using an inverter when the power is out, but in a serious long term outage situation (if the CPAP survived), I'd bypass the inverter and transformer and drive it directly off of DC, as that would be a lot more efficient. If you check your transformer, you can see what the DC output is and figure out how to supply that without the DC -> AC-> DC conversion losses.
> ...


My license will be a possession and aquisition licence (PAL) that entitles me to a rifle. Canada requires the PAL for ammunition as well, otherwise, I would definitely gone out and bought some already..

My first purchase will be a .22lr semi auto rifle. I have an inlaw that should sell me a 30-30 lever action CHEAP, which is good because I'm not really a 30-30 fan. I used to hunt with a .308 winchester, that would be my first choice for a hunting rifle.
I want a combination .22lr, 12g shotgun, and hunting rifle before I get too choosey.

A handgun is not an option for me(for now...hehe). I need another 1 day safety course and another $50 fee to get licensed for handguns. Then, of course, the time and money to enjoy it. The laws are strict for handguns in Canada, but it is still possible for someone with a clean police records check to qualify.

Yes, it is a CPAP. You spotted that one. I have a portable inverter/air compressor/floodlight contraption. It lasts me a couple nights. But in past years, I just butchered a power cable so I could connect my CPAP to any 12V battery. I've got a few lead acid batteries kicking around that I use on an electric trolling motor, they work fine for the CPAP too.

Edit: I am also considering an air rifle as a prep as well as a training aid to get my son practising range safety with me before I bring him to a real range. I guess I should step up my schedule on this. It's not a good defense weapon but it could take a few rabbits if i had to.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

tinkerhell said:


> My license will be a possession and aquisition licence (PAL) that entitles me to a rifle. Canada requires the PAL for ammunition as well, otherwise, I would definitely gone out and bought some already..
> 
> My first purchase will be a .22lr semi auto rifle. I have an inlaw that should sell me a 30-30 lever action CHEAP, which is good because I'm not really a 30-30 fan. I used to hunt with a .308 winchester, that would be my first choice for a hunting rifle.
> I want a combination .22lr, 12g shotgun, and hunting rifle before I get too choosey.
> ...


Perfect. If you don't mind me asking, which end of Canada do you reside? I'm in Michigan and if you were an easy ride this way, we could burn some powder sometime (when it warms up!)

AJ


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Nova Scotia since 2009. I guessing that is 2 very long days of driving. 

I doubt that I could afford it, but it sounds like one heck of a nice offer. Thank you!


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## cdell (Feb 27, 2014)

I am about 1000kms from home right now so it would be pretty inconvenient. I keep some supplies here in case something were to happen while I am at work but there is probably only a week worth of food and 4 days of water if I was really careful. If one of the work trucks would still run there should be enough gas between them to get me home, otherwise it would probably take me a month to walk all the way home in the winter. I need to get a bike and a hiking pack to keep up here, also now that I'm thinking more about it I don't have a camp stove or any other way to cook or heat things without electricity (other than candles). It looks like I have some things to do for my work location. If I was at home it wouldn't be too bad, a good supply of food, water, fuel, generators, guns, ammo, and lots of propane, and camp stoves. The only real problem at home (especially for the wife if I was gone) is if all electric things were really kaput is heating the house, as long as one of the generators still worked we would be ok for a while but we still need to get a wood stove.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

A J said:


> Couple questions.
> 
> 1) Regarding the firearm. You are waiting for a pistol right? Could you get a 22 rifle now and also order some ammo? The ammo is getting cheaper and some good deals are to be had (under 10cents/round)
> 2) If you don't mind me asking, is your medical device a CPAP? That's what I have and need to power. Right now I am using an inverter when the power is out, but in a serious long term outage situation (if the CPAP survived), I'd bypass the inverter and transformer and drive it directly off of DC, as that would be a lot more efficient. If you check your transformer, you can see what the DC output is and figure out how to supply that without the DC -> AC-> DC conversion losses.
> ...


Double check your CPAP, my wife's is about 5 years old and uses a 120VAC to 12VDC transformer to operate it. I bought the necessary coaxial plug at Radio Shack and put it on cigar lighter plug so she can use it in the RV (now sold) when we dry camp. No power loss, direct DC to DC 12 volt.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> forgive my ignorance, but why would a CME create a loss of water?


No power....No pumps.....No water. I am in the industrial pump business here in Houston. You wouldn't believe how many pumps it takes to run even the smallest Utility District. Water boosting and wells, Filtration, treatment, sewage and so much more. Most people don't think of the infastructure involved to simply be able to flush thier toilet and turn on their faucet.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

hawgrider said:


> if it happened today..... Id be ok for the most part if allowed to stay put. If not allowed to stay put all bets off its winter here and now the crucial decision making process would come into play. What are the roads like ? Can we get to the alternate location safely? Do we have to hike it or can we take the truck? is there time to load the truck?
> 
> Frankly today id be screwed my wife and I are both having major back issues she might need surgery So today you might find me laying in a pile of my own hot brass!


I know exactly what you mean. It seems anything that happens quick would catch a lot of people flat footed. We have to live our lives and that sometimes means we will be out of position to act or to respond. I travel a lot and fear something happens while on the road. While I travel by truck armed and have a get home bag my Wife will be home alone. She would be able to flee but hard pressed to defend by herself. I will have limited fire power if on the road and none if I am flying. If it happens slowly we may have time to make decisions and put ourselves in position to respond. If it happens fast we will have to deal with it from where we are. " We start the war from right here" so to speak.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

paraquack said:


> Double check your CPAP, my wife's is about 5 years old and uses a 120VAC to 12VDC transformer to operate it. I bought the necessary coaxial plug at Radio Shack and put it on cigar lighter plug so she can use it in the RV (now sold) when we dry camp. No power loss, direct DC to DC 12 volt.


Yeah, that is why I mentioned checking the transformer. My CPAP uses 24v, so in a grid down I'd use 2 12v batteries in series.

Thanks,
AJ


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

TorontoGal said:


> Remember what just happened to the city of Buffalo, NY?


No, Don't pay any attention to weather elsewhere, only what my affect me.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

A J said:


> Couple questions.
> 
> 1) Regarding the firearm. You are waiting for a pistol right? Could you get a 22 rifle now and also order some ammo? The ammo is getting cheaper and some good deals are to be had (under 10cents/round)
> 2) If you don't mind me asking, is your medical device a CPAP? That's what I have and need to power. Right now I am using an inverter when the power is out, but in a serious long term outage situation (if the CPAP survived), I'd bypass the inverter and transformer and drive it directly off of DC, as that would be a lot more efficient. If you check your transformer, you can see what the DC output is and figure out how to supply that without the DC -> AC-> DC conversion losses.
> ...


Question, what's a cpap???

To tinkerhell, the 30-30 if its a really old one would be good to have in the "safe" and I recommend anyone that has a license and needs to register firearms have at least 1 really old gun, as in the police state known as Australia, old firearms are not as "evil" and also gives you a foot in the door if you have to get a license (or your children)

My major point is cover your and your future generations firearm ownership in today's anti gun crowds... Its worth the thought


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

A J said:


> Yeah, that is why I mentioned checking the transformer. My CPAP uses 24v, so in a grid down I'd use 2 12v batteries in series.
> 
> Thanks,
> AJ


How many amps or watts at 24 VDC?


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> Question, what's a cpap???
> ...


Google is your friend,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_positive_airway_pressure

AJ


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

paraquack said:


> How many amps or watts at 24 VDC?


Transformer is 24v 3.75A, I haven't checked the actual draw of the unit though. Probably 1/2 that though after startup.

AJ


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Two suggestions for CPAP users: try a dental device. I have one and it is not as effective as CPAP, but it does provide significant relief. Also, CPAPs keep advancing and most CPAP users wind up with a new machine every so often. Put your old one in a Faraday cage.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

A J said:


> Yeah, that is why I mentioned checking the transformer. My CPAP uses 24v, so in a grid down I'd use 2 12v batteries in series.
> 
> Thanks,
> AJ


Check this out. A friend referred me to it. Personally too expensive. But they might have something else that works.
ResMed Power Station II Battery Pack with DC Adapter


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

So Wednesday evening I went to little "lecture" Q&A about EMP and Geomagnetic Storms. It was pretty decent and given by an engineer who put together all the BS on the Internet and explained in detail a lot of stuff. He also showed off his Faraday cage made out of a small metal garbage can. I was able to snap a pix with my phone but not very good. Basically it had a very tight fitting lid. The inside had some kind of insulation, I think he said cardboard to prevent his electronic devices from actually touching the metal of the can. He then used a conductive copper foil tape with a conductive adhesive to go around the lid and "seal" the lid to the can. Said there can't be any gaps. So i'm looking at the photo and I see the handle in the lid has maybe a 1 inch by 1/16 or large gap where the handle penetrates the lid. OPPS! I'd probably solder it shut. Any way here's a link to the tape. He added that it would be better to put the electronics in metalized bags and seal them. He used the same aluminized Mylar bags we use for dry food storage.
JVCC CFL-5CA Copper Foil Tape (Conductive Adhesive) at FindTape.com
It looks like $38 plus S&H I guess.
This is the type of can he used. Sorry, could get the photo off my old cell phone. The one thing I noticed was that any ripples in the tape were flattened out completely. One of the info slides showed this type of Faraday cage having greater than 50 DB protection from 100 megahertz up 2 gigahertz wave pulses in real world testing.
View attachment 8805

Bad news for people with implanted electronics, such as a pace maker. The EMP will most likely damage your life saving electronics.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Regarding the faraday cages, I understand that making it from non-ferous metal (non magnetic) is better if you can. So Aluminum/Copper is better. I have a couple old aluminum pots with tops that I toss small electronics in (meters, radios etc) and use aluminum tape to seal top to bottom. Of course you still need to insulate the contents from the pot. 

For serious electronics, I wrap in saran wrap, then alum foil and repeat a couple more times (backup HF Ham Radio etc.). I do this on the bigger backup stuff.

AJ


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## Coolwater (Nov 25, 2014)

Prepared One - I had not even thought of planes failing; if/when that happens, would people in planes be safe long enough to land? I have a loved one who flies a B-52 bomber nearly daily. Last year, all the power in their plane went dead and it was totally dark over an ocean. He said they couldn't even tell if the plane was rightside up or not; nothing. All that saved them was a $99. gps one of the guys had in his bag.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Coolwater said:


> Prepared One - I had not even thought of planes failing; if/when that happens, would people in planes be safe long enough to land? I have a loved one who flies a B-52 bomber nearly daily. Last year, all the power in their plane went dead and it was totally dark over an ocean. He said they couldn't even tell if the plane was rightside up or not; nothing. All that saved them was a $99. gps one of the guys had in his bag.


In many civilian planes, no. They would dig big holes. Many of the newer planes are fly by wire, so an EMP might be very bad for them.


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## longrider (Mar 25, 2013)

Paraquack, thanks for the post on the "solid fuel gasification" and about the faraday cage. What was the guy's name? I wonder if he/she has a book out? I haven't found anything like that kind of lecture in my area, but would really like to.

I do spend quite a lot of time wondering how prepared I really am, if it happened tomorrow. I know that there is sooo much yet to do. Usually, when I'm trying to sleep, I plant a garden. But I'll make some lists before I go to bed each night. Or more likely, when I wake up, so I Can get to sleep. I have some lists that need up-dating.

I'm only 3 or so miles from my BOL. And if I had to, I could bug in. I just moved to a cinder block house. Pretty safe other than the windows. I do feel much better there than in my trailer house.

I have a nephew who is really gung ho to be self sufficient. I printed out the info on wood to gas conversion and I'll turn him lose with it. He's pretty handy, and has made some great devices so far. I can't wait to see what he makes of this. Great thread.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

mine runs on 12v, and a 15Ah battery runs it all night without a problem ( 7-9hrs?)

The heated humidifier burns electricity like a coffee hotplate. It doesn't run on 12, nor would I try. Better to wake up with congestion, then recover with some saline mist up the nose, imo. YMMV


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I had these walkie talkies given to me last week. They are probably from the early 70s. They don't have any CMOS chips in them. The only thing solid state is the power transistor. 

If I remember correctly most walkie talkies worked on CH14 CB radio. 

I think I will use some modern FM radios, but wrap these up in a farady bag.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

A J said:


> Google is your friend,
> 
> Continuous positive airway pressure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> AJ


Not a good friend, it dont tell me much, a machine designed to assist in breathing, there are so many.....


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Aircraft are hardened against EMP. They're not going to fall out of the sky like science fiction movies.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Coolwater said:


> Prepared One - I had not even thought of planes failing; if/when that happens, would people in planes be safe long enough to land? I have a loved one who flies a B-52 bomber nearly daily. Last year, all the power in their plane went dead and it was totally dark over an ocean. He said they couldn't even tell if the plane was rightside up or not; nothing. All that saved them was a $99. gps one of the guys had in his bag.


The B-52 has multiple AC generators on separate buses, separate GCUs, converters, etc.; not to mention the APU and its AC system which will automatically provide AC to essential systems. It will not lose all power. Even if so, no 99 dollar GPS does what the vertical situation indicator does.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> In many civilian planes, no. They would dig big holes. Many of the newer planes are fly by wire, so an EMP might be very bad for them.


Most small planes would either be fine or simply experience and engine out, i.e. they would simply become gliders. Pilots train for that sort of emergency and most would make it down okay. Commercial flights with hydraulic controls would have the same experience. Commercial flights with fly by wire would be the most vulnerable, but there is shielding built into the designs that might work, albeit there is no way to test. They are shielded for lightning strikes.

To put this in perspective the glide ratio of a plane is approximately 10:1, i.e. for every foot you go down you'll go 10 feet forward. A very good glider would have a ratio more like 30:1. If you are in a commercial plane cruising at 35,000 feet and the plane has an engine out, but the pilot still has working controls, you're almost 7 miles up, so the pilot has his choice of landing sites anywhere within a 70 mile radius. Depending on the time of day and where they happen to be the chances of landing are not as bad as you might think.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Rather than worrying about failure on the plane, I would be much more concerned with ground station navigation equipment going off line and lack of communication with the planes. Considering the number of planes in the air at any given time, you can imagine how it would be. Imagine O'Hare with no VOR/ILS and no direction from the tower. I can't imagine. I can't imagine the aerial ballet of having aircraft stacked up, choreographed for their turn to land.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Rather than worrying about failure on the plane, I would be much more concerned with ground station navigation equipment going off line and lack of communication with the planes. Considering the number of planes in the air at any given time, you can imagine how it would be. Imagine O'Hare with no VOR/ILS and no direction from the tower. I can't imagine. I can't imagine the aerial ballet of having aircraft stacked up, choreographed for their turn to land.


If the weather is decent it might not be too bad. The pilots just look out the window. If it is socked in with fog, it will be a mess. Note that if you are circling the airport you already have a landing sequence and the planes all glide in as best they can based on the last instructions they received. In the case of Chicago I would expect a few to ditch in the lake. Those that are not yet in landing range are going to pick whatever emergency sites they can find.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> Not a good friend, it dont tell me much, a machine designed to assist in breathing, there are so many.....


They don't breath for you, theyjust keep the airway open. The positive pressure pushes on the insides of your airway like a balloon is kept inflated by air.

Some of the earliest CPAP machines where vacum cleaner blowers with a manual speed control. Now they auto adjust the pressure for maximum comfort by profiling your breathing pattern, finding the point where you are about to start having 'apnea events' then setting the pressure just a bit higher.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Denton said:


> The B-52 has multiple AC generators on separate buses, separate GCUs, converters, etc.; not to mention the APU and its AC system which will automatically provide AC to essential systems. It will not lose all power. Even if so, no 99 dollar GPS does what the vertical situation indicator does.


What Denton said Coolwater


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

A J said:


> What if "it" happened today? Am I ready? What will I wish I'd have done differently?
> 
> AJ


If it happened right now I guess I would grab the ghb and start the long walk home. when I got home I would take stock and check if any equipment still ran. And open the safe. It would be an ok time of year for this in my situation, I have enough food and firewood for the mild Texas winter. Then I would gather up the family and meet with the neighbors regarding a security plan and mutual assistance for farming and livestock so everyone will have food for the future. I would also pray that the local meth heads and thugs would bug out.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> If the weather is decent it might not be too bad. The pilots just look out the window. If it is socked in with fog, it will be a mess. Note that if you are circling the airport you already have a landing sequence and the planes all glide in as best they can based on the last instructions they received. In the case of Chicago I would expect a few to ditch in the lake. Those that are not yet in landing range are going to pick whatever emergency sites they can find.


Being the way I am, I figure the worst case scenario, and that would be stacked at night. Now, all those aircraft are without runway lights, no ILS and no organization. Hang it up! Heck even in daylight, towers work hard to prevent near misses. It'll go from a ballet to a mosh pit really quick! :lol: No VOR to bring the aircraft to the airport, no ILS for approach, etc., nope. Would rather be driving a car! :ambivalence:


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

longrider said:


> Paraquack, thanks for the post on the "solid fuel gasification" and about the faraday cage. What was the guy's name? I wonder if he/she has a book out? I haven't found anything like that kind of lecture in my area, but would really like to.
> 
> I do spend quite a lot of time wondering how prepared I really am, if it happened tomorrow. I know that there is sooo much yet to do. Usually, when I'm trying to sleep, I plant a garden. But I'll make some lists before I go to bed each night. Or more likely, when I wake up, so I Can get to sleep. I have some lists that need up-dating.
> 
> ...


Here are some the Internet sites he quoted, and recommended for "light" reading. Some of it is narrative and some is strictly data. But having an engineer to explain helped a whole bunch!
Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com
Electromagnetic Pulse - Nuclear EMP - futurescience.com
EMP Site Map - Futurescience.com
Electromagnetic Pulse Protection - EMP - Futurescience.com
Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack
The Space Review: Rebuttal to ?The EMP threat: fact, fiction, and response? (page 1)
EMP, Congress & The SHIELD Act **Exclusive**
Failing to Guard Against Electromagnetic Pulse Attacks Could Be Fatal - US News
http://images.military.com/DT/images/Graham.pdf
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/empc_exec_rpt.pdf
These next ones are very dry and LONG and hard to read unless you're an engineer, but you will get some info.
http://www.ferc.gov/industries/electric/indus-act/reliability/cybersecurity/ferc_meta-r-320.pdf
http://www.futurescience.com/emp/ferc_Meta-R-321.pdf

I can't find the link to the E2 pulse, but if you're really interested, I have the document and can e-mail it.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Denton said:


> Aircraft are hardened against EMP. They're not going to fall out of the sky like science fiction movies.


Where you are most likely correct about military aircraft, I don't think that commercial or business aircraft are protected against EMP. First I asked an engineer friend who presently works for a division of Piper, worked for Hawker, then Hawker Beechcraft says none of his companies did any kind of "hardening". He did a bit of research and found that the Boeing commercial aircraft used for the "Nightwatch" program were apparently built with the old analog instrumentation to make them less prone to damage by EMP. He feels that commercial and small business aircraft are susceptible to EMP, especially the newest glass cockpit, fly by wire aircraft.

Small general aviation type aircraft are less susceptible since the non jet aircraft usually have dual magnetos for the engine and are very robust. Modern Nav/Comm technology equipment would be lost but the analog instrumentation would continue to function without skipping a beat.

Next I roamed the Internet and could not find any info about "hardening" of aircraft electronics anywhere except for the military. It seems that the shielding would add too much weight and cost too much.

Let me know what you found.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Was talking about that with a prepper/diver/drinking buddy who is a technical inspector on the 787 at the Boeing plant in SC. 
He assured me the wire harnesses are built using impregnated filtered line and that the industry is more aware of the need for the electrical bonding of components. These two things alone go along way in making the aircraft much better.

Now, for Denton's moment for negativity. The aircraft is only as good as those building it. Attention to detail and a professional attitude are a must. I have a lot of friends who work in aviation across the country who have pretty dismal things to say about the industry, regarding the workforce.

By the way. Airbus is opening a plant in Mobile. Airbus launches third hiring wave for hourly manufacturing jobs at A320 final assembly line in Mobile | AL.com A friend sent me the starting pay scale for all positions, but I deleted it after reading it, but this gives you an idea. What sort of technicians do they expect to attract when the janitors where I work make the same or more than those who are going to be building commercial aircraft? Improper bonding of components, improper splicing of wires, etc., can make the difference between systems operating properly or systems failing on a normal day, let alone in the event of EMP, lightning strikes, etc.

The drawing boards are the least of my concern.

Oh. Would you like to hear the story about a friend who worked for a company that overhauled and updated commercial aircraft and the number of non-English speaking "technicians" there who didn't even have their own tools?

Even without an EMP event, this avionics tech will stick to ground travel.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> They don't breath for you, theyjust keep the airway open. The positive pressure pushes on the insides of your airway like a balloon is kept inflated by air.
> 
> Some of the earliest CPAP machines where vacum cleaner blowers with a manual speed control. Now they auto adjust the pressure for maximum comfort by profiling your breathing pattern, finding the point where you are about to start having 'apnea events' then setting the pressure just a bit higher.


So a overly complex blower motor (a vac motor is the same thing)

Thank you, now that makes a lot more sense


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

paraquack said:


> Here are some the Internet sites he quoted, and recommended for "light" reading. Some of it is narrative and some is strictly data. But having an engineer to explain helped a whole bunch!
> Electromagnetic Pulse - EMP Myths - futurescience.com
> Electromagnetic Pulse - Nuclear EMP - futurescience.com
> EMP Site Map - Futurescience.com
> ...


Shared and full credit, thanks for the links (another emp discussion/scenario is playing out on ausprep)


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Denton said:


> Was talking about that with a prepper/diver/drinking buddy who is a technical inspector on the 787 at the Boeing plant in SC.
> He assured me the wire harnesses are built using impregnated filtered line and that the industry is more aware of the need for the electrical bonding of components. These two things alone go along way in making the aircraft much better...


The filtered line you are talking about is most likely filtering out RF, and EMI that might cause erratic operation of electronics. Ask your friend if it could handle These 2 MEV gamma rays will normally produce an E1 pulse near ground level at moderately high latitudes that peaks at about 50,000 volts per meter at peak power density of 6.6 megawatts per square meter. (Quoted from E1, E2 and E3 by Jerry Emanuelson, B.S.E.E.) I will ask my engineer friend.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

paraquack said:


> The filtered line you are talking about is most likely filtering out RF, and EMI that might cause erratic operation of electronics. Ask your friend if it could handle These 2 MEV gamma rays will normally produce an E1 pulse near ground level at moderately high latitudes that peaks at about 50,000 volts per meter at peak power density of 6.6 megawatts per square meter. (Quoted from E1, E2 and E3 by Jerry Emanuelson, B.S.E.E.) I will ask my engineer friend.


I'll confirm when he comes down for the holidays, and will catch him before he falls into the tequila bottle.

By the way, I recognized most of the links you provided earlier and have read them. Most are good; good job.

By the way, I know and associate with MEs and EEs, too. They don't all agree when discussing this topic. Sober or otherwise. :suspicion:


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Everyone has an opinion. My brother was on B-36s and they had only a few problems with EMP because the old tube radios and computers were much more robust. One of the links I posted showed regular electronics printed circuit boards that had "fried" resistors and even a photo showing the flash of 2 close, side by side traces flashing as they "blow" from over voltage when exposed to 50,000 volts/meter squared in a test.


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