# Can you tell fact from fiction?



## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

While reading FM 21-76-1 Survival-Evasion-Recovery, I began to recall listening to the HF radio in our SH-3 helicopter off the coast of someplace in southeast Asia. There was a lot of chatter about homes/buildings burning, people getting beaten up, etc.
I recall wondering if it was real. 
Because we scanned through a few more channels in the same region there was no such broadcast... We could not tell if we were listening to Cambodian or Vietnamese. (Alert - I'm not an intel "spook" a Navy term for someone who does this professionally.)

I am curious, in SHTF:

*Do you know your current culture, location, to know if a broadcast is legitimate?*
Some folks on this forum may have some experience with this.
I know the Cubans in my family struggled with fact or fiction over the airwaves.

I think it is timely to think about


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Nice thread. Deep thoughts.....

I guess in an event, I would know with only one source of reference, ham (amateur radio). I would know the towers/repeaters I'm hitting as well as reaching out long distances (And knowing all official frequencies).


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Assume it's all bogus and you'll probably be closer to the truth.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

If the place you're hearing about is distant, it's a lot safer to assume it's false until proven true. Close by you can tell by listening carefully to details: if they say that there are fires are being set all over town and you look out the window to a clear sky...


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

It is a very good question. Lemme repackage the original thread into a prepper oriented scenario:
World ended, and all you know about the world outside is what you pick up on walki talkies and shortwave. One day you hear distress calls, and the victims paint the picture of an evil gang heading your way.

But how do you know its real, and not someone trying to get you to run or join them? Paint a good enough story and people may stop scavaging, or you may deploy your forces in the wrong direction. Did you take the time to directionalize the signal so you know where it came from? Prolly not since most people have that kind of equipment.

Oddly enough i am writing about this very scenario in Calizona 2.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

'Run or join them'... Almost a question. I assume you don't mean that the peron(s) broadcasting are actually aiming it at me. So what would be the point? If it's not someone I know, I'd thank them for the info and proceed to keep an eye out for enemy action from the top of my hill. If I saw someone coming, they'd be invited to stop well clear of the property line like everyone else I don't know. As for the party in distress, post-shtf is not the time to be running to the rescue unless you represent a very large and well trained/equipped prepper compound with lots of people. Otherwise, you have no business exposing your family to such a risk.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

They could trick you into ambushing strangers, or make you look in the wrong direction. They could also poison an idea by telling you a fraudulent story (think fox news). 

How hard is it to determine direction with a HAM radio? Any hammies out there?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

If they're strangers and they head for MY fence, then they've already made a mistake. I don't consider that as ambushing anyone. My outlook post is on top of a knob hill, so looking in a wrong direction takes a few seconds, tops. It's easy to determine direction. You just need a directional antenna. You keep assuming that people would want to go out of their way to help strangers post-shtf. I just don't see that happening a lot. I keep trying to imagine a safe way to let strangers join my party, but I haven't come up with one yet.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

thepeartree said:


> If the place you're hearing about is distant, it's a lot safer to assume it's false until proven true. Close by you can tell by listening carefully to details: if they say that there are fires are being set all over town and you look out the window to a clear sky...


You make an interesting point. Something broadcast on the other side of town, either an "All Clear" or "...insurgents heading NNW of the airport..." could be credible in that you would be able to sense some other signs. In USN aviation we always looked for "secondary indications". If your No.1 engine oil light came on you check your engine oil pressure gauge. If you car is requiring more gas pedal than usual, check your parking brake and transmission gear.

Distant comms will require more data collection the local comms. Simply for the lack of "secondary indications."

Paul Revere's ride and alarm was effective because 
1. Community expected the news and were prepared.
2. The transmitter was credible (Paul).

Mr. Survival touched on an important point too. He knows, (ahead of time) what frequencies and towers are genuine.
A caveat is that anything transmitted can be received. If your watched the TV series Jericho that problem was in most episodes. Even Walking Dead season 4(?) had alluring signs near railroad tracks.

I generally stay close to prepping for hurricanes and the civil challenges that accompany that. Authoritative transmissions will be easy to recognize.

Yet, I find myself wondering about the enemy. The oath I swore was to "defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic ..." I never wondered about domestic enemies before now. Are they foreigners already here? Are domestic enemies a large group of activists trying to save the planet?

President James Madison, the father of our Constitution, knew easily who the enemy was. Scholars believe that the War of 1812 was hinged on a hurricane event. A storm so bad the the British, who had advanced all the way into DC were pushed back by a storm.
How did they get that far in the first place? Another topic on another day.

The paradox or dichotomy here is, other than civil authority, what comms do you already know you can trust... the Cubans were hearing radio broadcasts from Cuban soldiers who were transmitting while their families were in captivity.

In my area, I think learning Spanish, morse code, and sign language will be helpful.

I am not wanting to make this yet another political thread, we've got plenty of those.

In your area, if you are not in a group, how will you know if comms are credible?


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

Aside: They got that far because they had an overwhelmingly superior force on ships and were able to sail right up to the south edge of town (virtually speaking). Then they beat the snot out of the local troops and started burning everything.

Now, I would know who is authorized to be official in my town. Then there are only certain things that are reasonable in any situation. For example, if you're facing an invasion force, would you expect to hear the authorities tell everyone to come to the town square for a meeting? Of course not! Not without a gun to the guy's head. Same for them saying it was all a mistake. A ham, as well, is going to expect certain chatter on local police/fire frequencies and if it's wrong, it's pretty easy to tell.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Should it ever get to that point. Knowledge of the area you are in will help a lot. Example reports of wide spread looting and burning in say a City like Milwaukee would not be hard to except at face value.
We chose a lot time ago to be away from the city . That should buy us time to figure out what is really going on. Those that wish to meet with us will do so on our terms or pay a high price. I will not base actions on a broadcast of any kind. Other than to lock down even tighter. White flags are meaningless anywhere except old movies.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Ralph Rotten said:


> They could trick you into ambushing strangers, or make you look in the wrong direction. They could also poison an idea by telling you a fraudulent story (think fox news).
> 
> How hard is it to determine direction with a HAM radio? Any hammies out there?


Fox news, you use fox news as an example of bad reporting... ha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha haha ha ha

I would have used MSNBC


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

If I could tell fact from fiction would I be reading stuff on the Internet? LOL


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Ralph Rotten said:


> They could trick you into ambushing strangers, or make you look in the wrong direction. They could also poison an idea by telling you a fraudulent story (think fox news).
> 
> How hard is it to determine direction with a HAM radio? Any hammies out there?


Who do you work for? Sounds like you want to know how far the gov would have to go to track any radio transmissions! Not really sure what side of the fence you're on!!
Serious as a heart attack!! You don't pass the smell test!!! jmho.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Triangulation is old fashioned these days I think. Either that or much, much more efficient. Not one I would want to test....


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

oddapple said:


> Triangulation is old fashioned these days I think. Either that or much, much more efficient. Not one I would want to test....


We do this (triangulation), or aka foxhunt, during ham radio days. Radio is placed around town somewhere (usually in a garbage bag hidden in town) and we setout to find it. Tiring, but fun.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

survival said:


> We do this (triangulation), or aka foxhunt, during ham radio days. Radio is placed around town somewhere (usually in a garbage bag hidden in town) and we setout to find it. Tiring, but fun.


How specialized is the equipment? Is this something that only uber-geeks would have, or common for HAM operators? I guess what I'm asking is; how likely would most survivors be to have the equipment to determine the direction of the transmission? I'm wondering how easy it would be to spoof someone with a HAM setup? Or would they figure out which direction you were broadcasting from quickly?

Sorry for the questions, I don't know much about radios beyond turning one on.


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Common hams would have this type of equipment... its rare, but they do. Radio and a yagi antenna (or homemade one). Government does have this equipment. Local search and rescue has this type of equipment. Many of your advanced HAMs (MARS/ARES members) have this equipment. They like to play games on finding the radio in the wood (or the downed chopper/hiker). Can they find it quickly, I'm sure some can, the person I was driving around with stopped too many times to get coffee that day :hopelessness:


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Turn your antenna. If the signal gets stronger....


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

oddapple said:


> Turn your antenna. If the signal gets stronger....


This system is used by hunters in my area who hunt ***** after dark. They use dogs equipped with radio collars and when they know a **** is tree'd (can tell by dog's barks) they home in on their dog using a handheld antenna and headphones to hear the signal.

And speaking of distress signals, even today there are people who put out false boat-in-distress signals to send the Coast Guard on a wild goose chase. A lot of these have been discovered to originate on land.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

oddapple said:


> Triangulation is old fashioned these days I think. Either that or much, much more efficient. Not one I would want to test....


EXCELLENT!

My crew did this while chartering (mapping) some Indonesian islands in the 80s.

People can still purchase old ADF radios and antennas if you're feeling adventurous.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> This system is used by hunters in my area who hunt ***** after dark. They use dogs equipped with radio collars and when they know a **** is tree'd (can tell by dog's barks) they home in on their dog using a handheld antenna and headphones to hear the signal.
> 
> And speaking of distress signals, even today there are people who put out false boat-in-distress signals to send the Coast Guard on a wild goose chase. A lot of these have been discovered to originate on land.


I listened to one a while back on my old scanner.the coasties really get pissed!


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