# Mandatory flu shots for Ma students



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

How is this going to play out for new vaccines that have not been fully tested for long term effects (Covid-19?) ?

"On Wednesday, the state Department of Public Health announced the new requirement. All children aged 6 months or older who are attending Massachusetts child care, pre-school, kindergarten, K-12, and colleges and universities are required to get the flu vaccine by Dec. 31 for the 2020-2021 flu season unless either a medical or religious exemption is provided."

https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2020/08/this-is-a-very-slippery-slope-some-massachusetts-residents-say-flu-shot-requirement-for-students-wrongfully-takes-choice-away-from-families.html


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

People may die


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I have no problem with it, and there are exemptions.

Many vaccines were mandatory when I was a kid, I never caught a thing.

Was part of the first test for the Salk polio vaccine, Worcester Foundation for experimental biology was only 6 miles away from my home,

none of the kids in my class ever got it to my knowledge. 

The park pool across from my where I lived was closed almost every year at a point due to polio virus in the water.

There were those who caught it from there before the vaccine was available.

They solved that pool problem, filled it in and made a tennis court out of it.

Even today, every year, there are several public pools in Worcester, that are temporarily closed because of the virus being present.


As with anything like this some will fall, but most will survive.

I get the flue shot every year, my doctor brother insist that I do, and I agree with him.

He is not making anything off of it, would send me the stuff to do myself if I needed him to.

When the COVID shot is available I will get it, I am at too much of a risk not to.


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## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

That's only IF schools are open by then AND I can see many parents that don't agree with the requirement for other reasons than approved exemptions.....continuing with homeschooling, if they can figure out alternate child care if they work.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> I have no problem with it, and there are exemptions.
> 
> Many vaccines were mandatory when I was a kid, I never caught a thing.
> 
> ...


 @SOCOM42, I had a lot more trust in the government and medical establishment when we were kids. I got the smallpox, polio, MMR, whooping cough, tetanus vaccines.........

I still get tetanus boosters as I'm always getting cuts and scrapes.

I'm not really sure I trust what the government is injecting people with these days?

The flu shots are only 40-60% effective.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

I sure miss the old days when we could trust our government. I'm not saying it was always worthy of our trust, but I guess ignorance was bliss. Life used to be so much simpler.

I remember my mom telling me of folks who would die from simple cuts, in the time before penicillin and more modern antibiotics. As a child, I had a neighbor of a similar age to me that had polio and had one arm much smaller than the other. So back then, when science came out with any vaccine or treatment, we were thrilled and all partook.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> @SOCOM42,* I had a lot more trust* in the government and *medical establishment when we were kids. * I got the smallpox, polio, MMR, whooping cough, tetanus vaccines.........
> 
> I still get tetanus boosters as I'm always getting cuts and scrapes.
> 
> ...


This^^

Yeah no freaking way! Its all about greed and profit in this day in age not about cures for mankind.

Pass me by I don't need no new age injections! I take my life just the way the good lord planned it. Nobody lives forever!


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

170K have died from Covid.

647K died in 2019 from heart disease. Yet we are told to embrace fat people and no one is calling for McDonald's to be closed.

This isnt about safety. The government doesn't care about your safety. This is about control.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> 170K have died from Covid.
> 
> 647K died in 2019 from heart disease. Yet we are told to embrace fat people and no one is calling for McDonald's to be closed.
> 
> ...


Not a good analogy. If someone chooses to eat improperly & die early, that is their free choice. Their being fat doesn't harm others. On the other hand, during a pandemic, the spread of the virus can greatly impact others. Your choice to not get vaccinated or take proper precautions, can impact many others... including the death of others.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

******* said:


> Not a good analogy. If someone chooses to eat improperly & die early, that is their free choice. Their being fat doesn't harm others. *On the other hand, during a pandemic, the spread of the virus can greatly impact others. Your choice to not get vaccinated or take proper precautions, can impact many others... including the death of others*.


No thanks I don't drink kool-aid I prefer bourbon.

I have to be truthful as always some of the stuff you write actually scares me.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

hawgrider said:


> No thanks I don't drink kool-aid I prefer bourbon.
> 
> I have to be truthful as always some of the stuff you write actually scares me.


The truth can be scary.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

******* said:


> The truth can be scary.


Koolaid is not kool. Pass the straw to someone else thank you very much.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

******* said:


> Not a good analogy. If someone chooses to eat improperly & die early, that is their free choice. Their being fat doesn't harm others. On the other hand, during a pandemic, the spread of the virus can greatly impact others. Your choice to not get vaccinated or take proper precautions, can impact many others... including the death of others.


Wrong. I have fat asses at my work who cant do their job properly because of their weight and they put my life at risk every day.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> Wrong. I have fat asses at my work who cant do their job properly because of their weight and they put my life at risk every day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Exactly! What if the elevator became over loaded and you plummeted to your death. 
Better take that elevator vaccine or you will be putting others at danger.....Pffft!


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

There were 34,200 flue deaths last season 2018-2019.

On another note, I had several friends that were really overweight.

They are all gone now, either from heart attacks or strokes, been at least 7 years for the last one.

A few including my brother from drinking.

As said before, at my age I am not taking any chances.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> There were 34,200 flue deaths last season 2018-2019.
> 
> On another note, I had several friends that were really overweight.
> 
> ...


Personal choice is paramount! :tango_face_wink:


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

hawgrider said:


> Personal choice is paramount! :tango_face_wink:


I agree with you 100% of choice on everything!

i was forty pounds overweight 20 years ago, became diabetic at that time.

Went on a diet lost it all including 4 inches off the waist, went into a pre-diabetic condition.

Have kept the weight down and the blood sugar also.

All a matter of choice.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> @SOCOM42, I had a lot more trust in the government and medical establishment when we were kids. I got the smallpox, polio, MMR, whooping cough, tetanus vaccines.........
> 
> I still get tetanus boosters as I'm always getting cuts and scrapes.
> 
> ...


I also had more trust back then

Some vaccines are important.. others... very few people die from MMR!!

All my kids have polio, tetnus, and others... but not MMR.. they never get flu shots and will not get the covid shot


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

hawgrider said:


> personal choice is paramount! :tango_face_wink:


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^yes!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I will not be taking any covid vaccine when it becomes available. Period. Law or no law.

Don't want to catch covid from me? Don't come to my house.

Don't want to get kicked in the junk? Don't come to my house.

Don't want to get lead poisoning? Don't come to my house.

Are you detecting a pattern?


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

I don't think mandatory vacs will happen while Trump is president. Sleepy Joe won't be elected; he said his first day in office he'd mandate a nationwide mask requirement. He has no clue that he just lost the election.


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## Black 5 (Apr 6, 2020)

Mandatory vaccination may not occur at a federal level, but some corporations are already making the vaccination mandatory for continued employment.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Personal choice...personal responsibility....

Offer solutions....do not mandate.

If I do....its my choice....I accept it.
If I don't.....it's my choice...I accept it.


If you try to make me....I may shoot you in the fkn face....uh....our issue.....


correction...may is historically indicative of a request granted.....might is the better word...indicative of the unknown....


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## Demitri.14 (Nov 21, 2018)

MountainGirl said:


> I don't think mandatory vacs will happen while Trump is president. Sleepy Joe won't be elected; he said his first day in office he'd mandate a nationwide mask requirement. He has no clue that he just lost the election.


By the time the election rolls around, the majority of the states and local municipalities will have already mandated masks, so everyone will be used to it, and it won't make much of a difference if Sleepy Joe and Camel Hairs want to mandate it or not.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> Wrong. I have fat asses at my work who cant do their job properly because of their weight and they put my life at risk every day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Everyone pays extra for insurance because of fat people. And smokers. And fat smokers. And fat smokers who are too weak to work, so we end up paying for them to sit around on their fat asses, smoking Camels and Marlboros, watching _The Price Is Right_ all day.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Everyone pays extra for insurance because of fat people. And smokers. And fat smokers. And fat smokers who are too weak to work, so we end up paying for them to sit around on their fat asses, smoking Camels and Marlboros, watching _The Price Is Right_ all day.


True. We're also paying for people in Ghana, Canada, Europe and a plethora of other locals not situated in the US of A. Think we need to stop paying for all of it. But that's another thread in itself.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I hear the same question again and again and again...

If vaccines are so "freaking" good and you have gotten one.. why do you care if I have one or not?

waiting for an answer


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Everyone pays extra for insurance because of fat people. And smokers. And fat smokers. And fat smokers who are too weak to work,* so we end up paying for them to sit around on their fat asses, smoking Camels and Marlboros, watching The Price Is Right all day.*


Umm I am a fat smoker and do not resemble your remarks about fat smokers. And me thinks your calling the kettle black there chubs:vs_laugh:


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I hear the same question again and again and again...
> 
> If vaccines are so "freaking" good and you have gotten one.. why do you care if I have one or not?
> 
> waiting for an answer


I will answer for myself here, I DON'T CARE if you or anyone else gets one.

It is none of my business if you do or don't along with everybody else's choice, just that, your choice.

I have lived in Mass. almost my entire life.

When I was in grammar school, we had to take the first polio vaccine out, even to this day I have no problem with that.

I remember being scared shitless as a little kid seeing others in iron lungs it the hospital hallways.

Most of those machine have been gone for almost 70 years, and it is because of that vaccination.

Three plus decades ago, I caught the flu, It almost killed me, was on o2 for three days.

Brother told me to get the shot every season, I did and still do.

I don't like the idea of mandatory shots, but if they work???

Got plenty in the army, had no choice about those, never caught anything either.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I hear the same question again and again and again...
> 
> If vaccines are so "freaking" good and you have gotten one.. why do you care if I have one or not?
> 
> waiting for an answer


Yes, if vaccines were 100%, those vaccinated wouldn't have a care


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> Yes, if vaccines were 100%, those vaccinated wouldn't have a care


NOTHING is 100% except death.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> NOTHING is 100% except death.


And taxes......... if you wanna stay out of jail.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> I hear the same question again and again and again...
> 
> If vaccines are so "freaking" good and you have gotten one.. why do you care if I have one or not?
> 
> waiting for an answer


I'll give you an answer. Based on what I understand, this virus is gonna hang around until it quits spreading. It will only quit spreading when either the vast majority of the population contracts the virus (herd immunity) or the vast majority of the population gets vaccinated. Depending on how long, or if someone gets immunity by contacting the virus, vaccinations might be necessary regardless if one has contacted the disease.

Our economy is not going to get back to normal until this virus is stopped. Is that not enough reason? My printing business has been greatly harmed as our product is used for events & gatherings... which ain't happening much anymore. Even if your livelihood is not impacted by this virus, can you not see how others have been? Can you not see how your getting vaccinated can allow our country to get back to normal?


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

This just in- ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

******* said:


> I'll give you an answer. Based on what I understand, this virus is gonna hang around until it quits spreading. It will only quit spreading when either the vast majority of the population contracts the virus (herd immunity) or the vast majority of the population gets vaccinated. Depending on how long, or if someone gets immunity by contacting the virus, vaccinations might be necessary regardless if one has contacted the disease.
> 
> Our economy is not going to get back to normal until this virus is stopped. Is that not enough reason? My printing business has been greatly harmed as our product is used for events & gatherings... which ain't happening much anymore. Even if your livelihood is not impacted by this virus, can you not see how others have been? Can you not see how your getting vaccinated can allow our country to get back to normal?


Allow me to clarify something...
Our livelihoods were not impacted by "the virus". They were impacted by the heavy hand of government overstepping its boundaries to address a situation without authority.

The *country* can get back to normal whether I get vaccinated or not. Whether specific individual lives can is a different story, and up to them to deal with the consequences.
Get your vaccine if you want. It's not like vaccines of the past. It doesn't give you a small dose of the virus to fight off. It is claimed it is a virus in itself, designed to alter your DNA to produce a protein that will deactivate the virus. If true, let it sink way in. They will be altering the DNA of millions of humans without long term testing.

With as weak of a threat as it's turned out to be, I'd rather my God-given immune system fight it off and have protection the right way, or get called home to the great beyond and kiss all you crazy fools goodbye.

As for the OP, mandating the standard flu vaccine has been a long-held requirement, as kids are certainly susceptible and can spread it easily... unlike COVID.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Allow me to clarify something...
> Our livelihoods were not impacted by "the virus". They were impacted by the heavy hand of government overstepping its boundaries to address a situation without authority.
> 
> The *country* can get back to normal whether I get vaccinated or not. Whether specific individual lives can is a different story, and up to them to deal with the consequences.
> ...


A voice of reason.

Thanks for not drinking from the pitcher of Hawaiian punch.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

@*******, so then tell us why, if you have contrated COVID already, a vaccine might be helpful? So you could have a gooberment document/pass?

Our economy is f because of politicians.

I STILL don't know.been in contact with, a SINGLE person who has has had the Kung Flu.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> @*******, so then tell us why, if you have contrated COVID already, a vaccine might be helpful? So you could have a gooberment document/pass?
> 
> Our economy is f because of politicians.
> 
> I STILL don't know.been in contact with, a SINGLE person who has has had the Kung Flu.


Roger that me either nor any of my contacts or friends and relatives know not one person who has contracted anything but face mask acne!


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Allow me to clarify something...
> Our livelihoods were not impacted by "the virus". They were impacted by the heavy hand of government overstepping its boundaries to address a situation without authority.
> 
> The *country* can get back to normal whether I get vaccinated or not. Whether specific individual lives can is a different story, and up to them to deal with the consequences.
> ...


There are many "vaccines" in the works/trials. What you get will be based *on greed and politics, not science*.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> @*******, so then tell us why, if you have contrated COVID already, a vaccine might be helpful? So you could have a gooberment document/pass?
> 
> Our economy is f because of politicians.
> 
> I STILL don't know.been in contact with, a SINGLE person who has has had the Kung Flu.


From my understanding, they do not yet know if someone gets immunity from having the virus, or if they do, if it lasts forever. If it doesn't last forever, that would mean getting a "booster" shot.

I have had multiple people in my production come down with it.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Allow me to clarify something...
> Our livelihoods were not impacted by "the virus". They were impacted by the heavy hand of government overstepping its boundaries to address a situation without authority.
> 
> The *country* can get back to normal whether I get vaccinated or not. Whether specific individual lives can is a different story, and up to them to deal with the consequences.
> ...


I don't have the luxury of debating semantics as to which came first... the chicken or the egg. My business and our economy in general doesn't care if the virus is shutting us down or government overreach. It just cares that business is down & killing many of us. But let's go with government overreach, because I agree. So let's deal with reality and not pipe dreams. Reality tells me the government is not going to allow full gatherings again until this virus is under control. Not like the upcoming election is gonna change that as both Republicans & democrats agree on this. I live in a very conservative state with Republican control of everything & we have mask mandates & have had forces shutdowns. So if government is gonna require this virus to be controlled, then lets do it. Get vaccinated so that our economy can get going again.

Please give a link to this vaccination altering your own DNA. That is news to me. Also, keep in mind there is not just one vaccine. There are multiple ones in testing, most with different mechanisms of action.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

******* said:


> From my understanding, they do not yet know if someone gets immunity from having the virus, or if they do, if it lasts forever. If it doesn't last forever, that would mean getting a "booster" shot.
> 
> I have had multiple people in my production *come down with it*.


They wash their hands ? Hygiene at home/away from work? Basic hygiene is more effective.

So why force vaccinations,:neither proven safe, long lasting, nor effective? To get a gooberment stamp like a GREEN CARD/WORK CARD?

I'm an American, this is BS. It's not smallpox come again


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> They wash their hands ? Hygiene at home/away from work? Basic hygiene is more effective.
> 
> *So why force vaccinations*,:neither proven safe, long lasting, nor effective? To get a gooberment stamp like a GREEN CARD/WORK CARD?
> 
> I'm an American, this is BS. It's not smallpox come again


Some easy answers are-

Follow the money, greed and Bill Gates along with a huge dose of control. Pretty simple to see those that don't see it have been blinded by the shiny things that twinkle before their eyes. People are gullible even some of our own prepping members.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> They wash their hands ? Hygiene at home/away from work? Basic hygiene is more effective.
> 
> So why force vaccinations,:neither proven safe, long lasting, nor effective? To get a gooberment stamp like a GREEN CARD/WORK CARD?
> 
> I'm an American, this is BS. It's not smallpox come again


I can't answer regarding their hygiene as obviously I don't monitor them 24 hours a day.

I haven't heard about any law being passed to make a vaccine mandatory. But my guess is, enough agencies & businesses will require one to reach the threshold to stop the spread. I know my business will require one, as I'm sick & tired of wearing a mask all day at work.

I have had forced vaccinations my whole life & I bet you have too. Military required a bunch. Going to school also as did international travel. One more ain't gonna matter to me. And yes, I too am an American. But that means more than individual liberty & freedom. It means doing things for the public good... to form a more perfect union. My understanding of the teachings of my Savior, tells me it is not about me. It is about my neighbor. In this case, protecting my neighbor also helps me... and my country to recover quicker.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

******* said:


> I'll give you an answer. Based on what I understand, this virus is gonna hang around until it quits spreading. It will only quit spreading when either the vast majority of the population contracts the virus (herd immunity) or the vast majority of the population gets vaccinated. Depending on how long, or if someone gets immunity by contacting the virus, vaccinations might be necessary regardless if one has contacted the disease.
> 
> Our economy is not going to get back to normal until this virus is stopped. Is that not enough reason? My printing business has been greatly harmed as our product is used for events & gatherings... which ain't happening much anymore. Even if your livelihood is not impacted by this virus, can you not see how others have been? Can you not see how your getting vaccinated can allow our country to get back to normal?


What I hear you saying is. You think it is ok to force people to get a needle inserted into their arm and fluids injected - inorder to make sure you can make money at your business....


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

******* said:


> I can't answer regarding their hygiene as obviously I don't monitor them 24 hours a day.
> 
> I haven't heard about any law being passed to make a vaccine mandatory. But my guess is, enough agencies & businesses will require one to reach the threshold to stop the spread. I know my business will require one, as I'm sick & tired of wearing a mask all day at work.
> 
> I have had forced vaccinations my whole life & I bet you have too. Military required a bunch. Going to school also as did international travel. One more ain't gonna matter to me. And yes, I too am an American. But that means more than individual liberty & freedom. It means doing things for the public good... to form a more perfect union. My understanding of the teachings of my Savior, tells me it is not about me. It is about my neighbor. In this case, protecting my neighbor also helps me... and my country to recover quicker.


So why are we letting all these unvaccinated people into USA?

Criminal aliens worse!

I hope you only hire, Americans.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> What I hear you saying is. You think it is ok to force people to get a needle inserted into their arm and fluids injected - inorder to make sure you can make money at your business....


Not just my business. Business all over the country need it. And as I stated above, I don't know of any law being passed to require it. I assume it will be like wearing a mask. Many businesses & agencies will require it.

Are you telling me you have never been forced to have a needle inserted in your arm & have fluid injected?


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> So why are we letting all these unvaccinated people into USA?


I guess because there is no vaccine yet. I would bet, soon as one is approved & available, it will be required for international travel.



Mad Trapper said:


> I hope you only hire, Americans.


Of course. I don't speak Spanish.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

******* said:


> I guess because there is no vaccine yet. I would bet, soon as one is approved & available, it will be required for international travel.
> 
> Of course. I don't speak Spanish.


That would be ALL, vaccines, and a TB test.

I couldn't teach, without a TB test.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

******* said:


> So if government is gonna require this virus to be controlled, then lets do it. Get vaccinated so that our economy can get going again.


That a rational thinking person would come to such a conclusion is a travesty.
If injecting unknown and untested things into us isn't a step too far, what is?
Where is your line?

As to the vaccine potentially changing your DNA: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-08-06-doctor-warns-covid-19-vaccine-alters-your-dna.html
Futurism tones it down a bit, describing the cellular response instead of DNA mutation: https://futurism.com/neoscope/potential-covid19-vaccine-hacks-dna-build-immunity
To be fair and balanced, Reuters judges the first claim false: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-covid-19-vaccine-modify-idUSKBN22U2BZ
They cite that it doesn't alter your DNA, but only injects DNA to cause your cells to produce "virus-like particles" that trigger an immune response.

Do we have any way of knowing which is true? Will they tell us?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

******* said:


> Not just my business. Business all over the country need it. And as I stated above, I don't know of any law being passed to require it. I assume it will be like wearing a mask. Many businesses & agencies will require it.
> 
> Are you telling me you have never been forced to have a needle inserted in your arm & have fluid injected?


If a business requires it.. that is ok.. as long as it is not mandated by the government - there will be plenty of grocery stores, etc that will not require it... give it 6 months and lets see how long the voluntary face mask ban last

I was NEVER forced - yes the military required me to get shots.. BUT I volunteered to join and understood that i was subject to obey orders and part of that was getting shots, humping a pack, sleeping in the wet and cold.......

The government should not make it required for school, government agencies, or any tax payer funded organization that provides services I need


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> That a rational thinking person would come to such a conclusion is a travesty.
> If injecting unknown and untested things into us isn't a step too far, what is?
> Where is your line?


Are most of these vaccines not in clinical trials, using tens of thousands of participants? What is unknown about the vaccines is are they safe, do they work, how well do they work & for how long. That is the whole point of trials. No one is suggesting injecting unknown or untested things. Where do you come up with this stuff?

And you keep referring to it as the vaccine, like there is only one. There are a whole host of vaccines in trials as we speak. They are not identical by any stretch of the imagination. So if you have an issue with a vaccine, might be helpful if you identify which you are talking about.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> The government should not make it required for school, government agencies, or any tax payer funded organization that provides services I need


When I was in school & my kids were in school, they were required to have certain vaccinations. Is that not still required?


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

******* said:


> ....Our economy is not going to get back to normal until this virus is stopped. ...


*No.* Our economy is not going to get back to normal until the people rise up against this forced shutdown; whether through elections, resistance or other means.

When this started, the CoVid19 task force stated if we shut everything down & masked, etc - we'd lose 1.8 million people. If we did nothing, we'd lose 2.2 million. To date, after the shutdowns and maskings, we've lost around 180,000. And that's IF all the 'covid deaths' were actually the result of covid, which I doubt, and 40% of those deaths were people over the age of 80.

It's sad that so far 180K people died, and I'm sorry your business is suffering, but with over 5 million positive cases, in a country of 331+ million, it does NOT warrant shutting down the entire country.

There is no way this virus will be stopped, it will always be around just like the various influenzas each year. What has happened, however, is that *CoVid19 has been weaponized*. The only way a global reset can happen is if the spirit of America fails. To that end - the people must lose heart and hope, dwell in fear, and mistrust each other - and stay masked - to reinforce the agenda of those who would divide us.

The fear in you is palpable. Wear a mask if you want; comply with those who would keep you shut down. But don't think for a minute that your acquiescence, or your mask, is helping anyone. All you are doing is reinforcing their lies through influencing others to do the same, whether that is your intention or not.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> *No.* Our economy is not going to get back to normal until the people rise up against this forced shutdown; whether through elections, resistance or other means.
> 
> When this started, the CoVid19 task force stated if we shut everything down & masked, etc - we'd lose 1.8 million people. If we did nothing, we'd lose 2.2 million. To date, after the shutdowns and maskings, we've lost around 180,000. And that's IF all the 'covid deaths' were actually the result of covid, which I doubt, and 40% of those deaths were people over the age of 80.
> 
> ...


Of course the virus can be stopped. Yes, like the plague or mumps, it might stay in a small number of folks but for all practical purposes, vaccination can rid it from the general population. How quick you forget all the strides we have made in medicine thru the years.

And again, I have to live in the real world. People are not going to rise up. You folks that are anti-science & anti-medicine are in the vast minority. Both political parties are against opening up everything, so what am I to do? My hope is they find a safe, effective vaccine & enough people take it so that the economy will get going again. Hoping for the people to rise up against both political parties is a dream world. I have to operate in the real world.

I have no desire for the government to mandate you take a vaccine. But I feel confident enough people will take one to get us out of this.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

******* said:


> Of course the virus can be stopped. Yes, like the plague or mumps, it might stay in a small number of folks but for all practical purposes, vaccination can rid it from the general population. How quick you forget all the strides we have made in medicine thru the years.
> 
> And again, I have to live in the real world. People are not going to rise up. You folks that are anti-science & anti-medicine are in the vast minority. Both political parties are against opening up everything, so what am I to do? My hope is they find a safe, effective vaccine & enough people take it so that the economy will get going again. Hoping for the people to rise up against both political parties is a dream world. I have to operate in the real world.
> 
> I have no desire for the government to mandate you take a vaccine. But I feel confident enough people will take one to get us out of this.


You sir are confused. The virus won't be eradicated by a vaccination. Was the flu eradicated by getting the flu vaccination. No and neither will covid. You will have to take the slurry of their best guess every year just like for the flu.

Nope I'll pass I'm 60 years old and never get the flu and never had a flu shot.

Keep drinking that Jones juice.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

******* said:


> When I was in school & my kids were in school, they were required to have certain vaccinations. Is that not still required?


No it is not requried.. and it was not required when you were a kid... you were told that it was and like many folks you just did it and did not question


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> No it is not requried.. and it was not required when you were a kid... you were told that it was and like many folks you just did it and did not question


Can't speak for your state, but Mississippi requires them. To get an exemption, a doctor licensed in Mississippi must sign a form stating the vaccination would be harmful & explain why.

*Children entering a Mississippi school (from pre-kindergarten to 12th grade) for the first time are required to have had the following vaccinations.

Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis (DTaP)
Polio (IPV)
Hepatitis B
Measles, Mumps, Rubella (MMR)
Chickenpox (Varicella)
If your child is entering the seventh grade, either by advancing or transferring in, a pertussis (Tdap) booster is now required if they have not received a Tdap vaccination since the age of seven.*


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

hawgrider said:


> You sir are confused. The virus won't be eradicated by a vaccination. Was the flu eradicated by getting the flu vaccination. No and neither will covid. You will have to take the slurry of their best guess every year just like for the flu.
> 
> Nope I'll pass I'm 60 years old and never get the flu and never had a flu shot.
> 
> Keep drinking that Jones juice.


As I said, I doubt vaccination will eradicate it but will bring it under control as it has done for numerous diseases.

There is no evidence Covid will act like the flu and mutate greatly every year, requiring new formulations, so how can you compare it to the flu? Amazing the stuff y'all make up to try to prove a point.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

******* said:


> As I said, I doubt vaccination will eradicate it but will bring it under control as it has done for numerous diseases.
> 
> There is no evidence Covid will act like the flu and mutate greatly every year, requiring new formulations, so how can you compare it to the flu? Amazing the stuff y'all make up to try to prove a point.


If the virus is less than one year old, how *can* there be any evidence it will or will not mutate annually?


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> If the virus is less than one year old, how *can* there be any evidence it will or will not mutate annually?


I stated there is no evidence it will. From what I've read, it seems as though if it were going to mutate greatly, as the flu does, they would be seeing that by now. But as you say, we need more time to determine that issue.

Curious why you didn't post this question to hawgrider when he stated it would mutate just like the flu?


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

******* said:


> I stated there is no evidence it will. From what I've read, it seems as though if it were going to mutate greatly, as the flu does, they would be seeing that by now. But as you say, we need more time to determine that issue.
> 
> Curious why you didn't post this question to hawgrider when he stated it would mutate just like the flu?


Probably because I didn't see the post.....


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

******* said:


> I stated there is no evidence it will. From what I've read, it seems as though if it were going to mutate greatly, as the flu does, they would be seeing that by now. But as you say, we need more time to determine that issue.
> 
> Curious why you didn't post this question to hawgrider when he stated it would mutate just like the flu?


It's already mutating. Here are a few of many links; I googled 'various covid mutations'.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/how-many-covid-19-virus-mutations-are-there/ar-BB17PMoJ

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-mutating/story?id=70535183

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/rare-mutations-may-predispose-males-to-severe-covid-19

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/milder-coronavirus-1.5694855


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

******* said:


> Are most of these vaccines not in clinical trials, using tens of thousands of participants? What is unknown about the vaccines is are they safe, do they work, how well do they work & for how long. That is the whole point of trials. No one is suggesting injecting unknown or untested things. Where do you come up with this stuff?
> 
> And you keep referring to it as the vaccine, like there is only one. There are a whole host of vaccines in trials as we speak. They are not identical by any stretch of the imagination. So if you have an issue with a vaccine, might be helpful if you identify which you are talking about.


Many of them skipped the normal animal trials.
The ones I can find figures on are testing with between 500 and 1,000 participants.
As of yet, none of the studies have been peer reviewed.
So far, we know nothing of the results but what has been reported, and nobody has verified (peer reviewed) them.

I'm fully aware that there are multiple candidates for vaccine, but we won't get the competitive marketplace that reality *SHOULD* yield. They are simply in a race to be the first with the least amount of reported damage caused. We'll get what is chosen for us. It likely won't be the best.

All this rush to combat an illness that is docile by historic standards and easily defeated by the vast majority of people with any sense of a healthy immune system.
Yet so many are eager to take the needle so the government will lift the unnecessary restrictions it imposed in the first place without any explicitly stated authority to do so.

To parrot Jefferson, "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Many of them skipped the normal animal trials.
> The ones I can find figures on are testing with between 500 and 1,000 participants.
> As of yet, none of the studies have been peer reviewed.
> So far, we know nothing of the results but what has been reported, and nobody has verified (peer reviewed) them.


They are just starting phase 3 trials. Seems to me, each vaccine is being tested on 30,000 volunteers. It is way too early to be talking about results & peer review.

*At 6:45 a.m. Monday, a volunteer in Savannah, Ga., received a shot in the arm and became the first participant in a massive human experiment that will test the effectiveness of an experimental coronavirus vaccine candidate. The vaccine is being developed by the biotechnology company Moderna in collaboration with the National Institutes of Health.

The vaccination marks a much-anticipated milestone: the official launch of the first in a series of large U.S. clinical trials that will each test experimental vaccines in 30,000 participants, half receiving the shot and half receiving a placebo. Pharmaceutical giant Pfizer also announced it was initiating a 30,000-person vaccine trial, at 120 sites globally.*


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

******* said:


> *Of course the virus can be stopped.* Yes, like the plague or mumps, it might stay in a small number of folks but for all practical purposes, vaccination can rid it from the general population. How quick you forget all the strides we have made in medicine thru the years.
> 
> And again, I have to live in the real world. People are not going to rise up. You folks that are anti-science & anti-medicine are in the vast minority. Both political parties are against opening up everything, so what am I to do? My hope is they find a safe, effective vaccine & enough people take it so that the economy will get going again. Hoping for the people to rise up against both political parties is a dream world. I have to operate in the real world.
> 
> I have no desire for the government to mandate you take a vaccine. But I feel confident enough people will take one to get us out of this.





******* said:


> *As I said, I doubt vaccination will eradicate it* but will bring it under control as it has done for numerous diseases.
> 
> There is no evidence Covid will act like the flu and mutate greatly every year, requiring new formulations, so how can you compare it to the flu? Amazing the stuff y'all make up to try to prove a point.


*Make up your mind.

*Your assertion that we're anti-science or anti-medicine is inaccurate, uninformed and insulting. I'm surprised you didn't call us racist as well. As far as the people who are fed up with this shit 'rising-up' ?? If someone ask you to 'hold their beer' - you might want to decline and run back to your safe space.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> It's already mutating. Here are a few of many links; I googled 'various covid mutations'.
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/how-many-covid-19-virus-mutations-are-there/ar-BB17PMoJ
> 
> ...


Yes, there are several strains they are observing. Don't have time to read your links. Do any of them mention that it is mutating on the scale of the flu?


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

******* said:


> I stated there is no evidence it will. From what I've read, it seems as though if it were going to mutate greatly, as the flu does, they would be seeing that by now. But as you say, we need more time to determine that issue.
> 
> Curious why you didn't post this question to hawgrider when he stated it would mutate just like the flu?


Mutations of this china bug have already happened. The mainstream news was running with that months ago.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> *Make up your mind.
> 
> *Your assertion that we're anti-science or anti-medicine is inaccurate, uninformed and insulting. I'm surprised you didn't call us racist as well. As far as the people who are fed up with this shit 'rising-up' ?? If someone ask you to 'hold their beer' - you might want to decline and run back to your safe space.


There is a difference between eradication and stopping it. Like I said, we have stopped mumps from being the huge issue it was when I was a child. But especially due to folks not getting the vaccine, it is making a comeback. But it is nothing like it was when I was a kid. Hopefully never will be.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

hawgrider said:


> Mutations of this china bug have already happened. The mainstream news was running with that months ago.


There is a difference between having mutations and having mutations that cause the vaccine to no longer be effective. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence it has mutated that much.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

******* said:


> There is a difference between having mutations and having mutations that cause the vaccine to no longer be effective. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence it has mutated that much.


Didn't read MG's links yet eh! :tango_face_wink:


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

hawgrider said:


> Didn't read MG's links yet eh! :tango_face_wink:


Kinda busy now feeding animals & watering outside. Is there a study showing it has already mutated that far? Curious how they could know that without any vaccines being ready yet?


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I used to teach Biochemistry, not that it matters here..........


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

******* said:


> Kinda busy now feeding animals & watering outside. Is there a study showing it has already mutated that far? Curious how they could know that without any vaccines being ready yet?


*Your animals are all spreading the disease, YOU must kill them all NOW!* Bury them in deep pits or burn them, never use that land again!!!!

ROFL!!!!:vs_laugh::tango_face_grin::vs_smirk:


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

******* said:


> Kinda busy now feeding animals & watering outside. Is there a study showing it has already mutated that far? Curious how they could know that without any vaccines being ready yet?


Too busy to do your own reading, even when links are provided? And yet...here you are posting.

Ah...no matter. Just keep taking the blue pill. 
Have a cookie, soon everything will be right as rain.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

******* said:


> There is a difference between having mutations and having mutations that cause the vaccine to no longer be effective. To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence it has mutated that much.


So tell, me about the *40% effective *ful vaccine? That is truthful?

We are being told is BS!!! Based on political BS! Left/right/ msm/ agendas/$$$$$/........ it's ALL BULLSHIT!!!!!

If it "it" was so letal, I'd had it by now, and be dead, or immume.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> *Your animals are all spreading the disease, YOU must kill them all NOW!* Bury them in deep pits or burn them, never use that land again!!!!
> 
> ROFL!!!!:vs_laugh::tango_face_grin::vs_smirk:


Naw, my animals are good to go. They all are wearing masks.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> So tell, me about the *40% effective *ful vaccine? That is truthful?
> 
> We are being told is BS!!! Based on political BS! Left/right/ msm/ agendas/$$$$$/........ it's ALL BULLSHIT!!!!!
> 
> If it "it" was so letal, I'd had it by now, and be dead, or immume.


My friend, I'm not arguing about how deadly the virus is. I have always been against any shutdown. What I'm saying is, the government, both left & right have shut down our economy. I'm saying the ONLY way we get our economy back, at least somewhat quickly, is to appease them & get enough people vaccinated so that the spread slows enough that they will open it back up. Yes, you can dream about the people demanding instant opening but I have to deal with reality. Vaccination seems to me to be the only way they will open up our economy.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Mad Trapper said:


> I used to teach Biochemistry, not that it matters here..........


My degree is in Biology. If I hadn't gone into the Air Force, I would have loved to be a Microbiologist. I just loved those courses and fieldwork.


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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

I will never get another flu shot as long as I live. Never had the flu. Got the shot 3 times. 1st time I felt like crap for a few days. 2nd time I was sick and missed 3 days of work. 3rd time I was in bed for a week. Never again.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

Triumph said:


> I will never get another flu shot as long as I live. Never had the flu. Got the shot 3 times. 1st time I felt like crap for a few days. 2nd time I was sick and missed 3 days of work. 3rd time I was in bed for a week. Never again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


I will note that my wife and kids are in the medical field and get the flu shot every year and have no issue with it. It doesn't always work though. 2 years ago even after the shot my wife had the flu twice, 2 different strains. No way in hell we are getting a hardly tested covid shot.

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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> Too busy to do your own reading, even when links are provided? And yet...here you are posting.
> 
> Ah...no matter. Just keep taking the blue pill.
> Have a cookie, soon everything will be right as rain.


Not that I care if you understand, but I've worked a full day at my business. Then I come home & have tons of chores to do on the farmstead plus cook dinner for my wife who is home for a few nights. In between chores, I have tried to take a few minutes here or there to monitor our discussion, because I think that is the proper thing to do. I'm accustomed to being on the wrong side of discussions here but that doesn't mean I shy away from a good argument.

As opposed to me reading all these links, I simply asked did any of those stories state that they expect the virus to mutate to the extent that the flu does? Seems to me, if y'all provided the links, that means y'all have read the stories. I'm not interested is someone's opinion. Like stated earlier by someone else, I'm interested in peer reviewed studies.


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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

******* said:


> My friend, I'm not arguing about how deadly the virus is. I have always been against any shutdown. What I'm saying is, the government, both left & right have shut down our economy. I'm saying the ONLY way we get our economy back, at least somewhat quickly, is to appease them & get enough people vaccinated so that the spread slows enough that they will open it back up. Yes, you can dream about the people demanding instant opening but I have to deal with reality. Vaccination seems to me to be the only way they will open up our economy.


I understand your point but my family and I won't risk a bearly tested vaccine being low risk. Hell my wife is a nurse at a urgent care that is going nothing but covid testing and both kids work there scanning patients records. They get tested regularly and none have had it. Every doctor that works there says the same thing and none have had the virus. They will not take the vaccine because it isn't worth the risk.

The real issue with the spread is people are disgusting. Don't cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze. Don't wash their hands after going to the bathroom. People are pigs which is an insult to pigs.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

******* said:


> Not that I care if you understand, but I've worked a full day at my business. Then I come home & have tons of chores to do on the farmstead plus cook dinner for my wife who is home for a few nights. In between chores, I have tried to take a few minutes here or there to monitor our discussion, because I think that is the proper thing to do. I'm accustomed to being on the wrong side of discussions here but that doesn't mean I shy away from a good argument.
> 
> As opposed to me reading all these links, I simply asked did any of those stories state that they expect the virus to mutate to the extent that the flu does? Seems to me, if y'all provided the links, that means y'all have read the stories. I'm not interested is someone's opinion. Like stated earlier by someone else, I'm interested in peer reviewed studies.


Take the blue pill. It works wonders for us older guys lil.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

Sasquatch said:


> 170K have died from Covid.
> 
> 647K died in 2019 from heart disease. Yet we are told to embrace fat people and no one is calling for McDonald's to be closed.
> 
> ...


Many die from cigarettes every year? They won't ban that but as an ex smoker that vaping keeps me from smoking that fight it and banned flavors that aren't tobacco flavors. None of it is about the health of the people it all about money and control. Big tobacco has money and power. Vape companies are small and don't have the cash to lobby.

I'm not trying to say vaping is good but since I switched i can breath again and I don't stink. Vaping for me and everyone I know that switched feels much better.

They don't care about anything but controlling us. They use every little thing they can to pit people against each other. The people in this country need to wake tfu and take back control.

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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

hawgrider said:


> No thanks I don't drink kool-aid I prefer bourbon.
> 
> I have to be truthful as always some of the stuff you write actually scares me.


I agree. With you although I'm more of a single malt scotch guy.

I am in no way an anitvacer but not going to put a wipped up vaccine in my body and neither will my family. Wife and kids in the medical field in contact with covid patients daily. Mother inlaw that lives with us stage 4 retinal failure on dialysis and has diabetes. No one in our family has had covid. Why because we aren't nasty and cover our mouths wash our hands. We are clean. Best way to stop the spread of anything is to not be scumbags.

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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

MountainGirl said:


> I don't think mandatory vacs will happen while Trump is president. Sleepy Joe won't be elected; he said his first day in office he'd mandate a nationwide mask requirement. He has no clue that he just lost the election.


God i hope you are right. If sniffy joe wins you can kiss freedom good by.

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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

Demitri.14 said:


> By the time the election rolls around, the majority of the states and local municipalities will have already mandated masks, so everyone will be used to it, and it won't make much of a difference if Sleepy Joe and Camel Hairs want to mandate it or not.


All the mandates, all the things they are doing are to slowly take our freedom away. "So everyone will be used to it" is exactly the plan. Best way to take control is to do it a little at a time. People get angry but get over it. Eventually it's all gone. Don't be sheep and fall into the trap. Kool-aid tasted great till it kills you.

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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

hawgrider said:


> A voice of reason.
> 
> Thanks for not drinking from the pitcher of Hawaiian punch.


Hawaiian punch is delicious if you mix it with bacardi.

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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

Mad Trapper said:


> They wash their hands ? Hygiene at home/away from work? Basic hygiene is more effective.
> 
> So why force vaccinations,:neither proven safe, long lasting, nor effective? To get a gooberment stamp like a GREEN CARD/WORK CARD?
> 
> I'm an American, this is BS. It's not smallpox come again


Seriously just be clean. How many people have you seen over your lifetime not covering their mouths. Digging in their noses in public and touching stuff.

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## Triumph (Aug 18, 2020)

Back Pack Hack said:


> If the virus is less than one year old, how *can* there be any evidence it will or will not mutate annually?


And on top of that there are many forms of coronavirus that have been around for ages. MERS and SARS are coronavirus.

Just like all viruses it will continue to mutate.

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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

******* said:


> Not just my business. Business all over the country need it. And as I stated above, I don't know of any law being passed to require it. I assume it will be like wearing a mask. Many businesses & agencies will require it.
> 
> Are you telling me you have never been forced to have a needle inserted in your arm & have fluid injected?


Not since I got big enough to prevent anyone from forcing me.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

******* said:


> My friend, I'm not arguing about how deadly the virus is. I have always been against any shutdown. What I'm saying is, the government, both left & right have shut down our economy. I'm saying the ONLY way we get our economy back, at least somewhat quickly, is to appease them & get enough people vaccinated so that the spread slows enough that they will open it back up. Yes, you can dream about the people demanding instant opening but I have to deal with reality. Vaccination seems to me to be the only way they will open up our economy.


So what else do you deem as acceptable to "appease" the government? Turn in your guns? Give up your right to free speech? Give up your land for redistribution? Which one of God-given rights is the line that you refuse to cross? Incrementalism and "compromise" are very slippery slopes, when it comes to freedom, Sir!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Had the government acted within the boundaries it is supposed to be constrained by, we would have achieved herd immunity through natural means a month or more ago.
New studies are showing that this may only need 50% or less spread to have herd immunity.
But no.
They stepped in to show us what big daddy gubmint can do, prolonged the ordeal, killed thousands with bad policy, and we still aren't there.
People are looking for a vaccine like it's the second coming to save us all.

This will go down in history as one of the biggest blunders the human race has ever forced on itself. The full ramifications of which we may not fully know for half a century.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

stevekozak said:


> So what else do you deem as acceptable to "appease" the government? Turn in your guns? Give up your right to free speech? Give up your land for redistribution? Which one of God-given rights is the line that you refuse to cross? Incrementalism and "compromise" are very slippery slopes, when it comes to freedom, Sir!


^^^That^^^


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Could the perpetrators of this masterful con have dreamed it would be so easy to fleece the sheeple? That they would so easily give up their freedoms, their money, and their rights, for a promised perceived safety.

After decades of indoctrination it's Easy Money.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

******* said:


> Can't speak for your state, but Mississippi requires them. To get an exemption, a doctor licensed in Mississippi must sign a form stating the vaccination would be harmful & explain why.
> 
> *Children entering a Mississippi school (from pre-kindergarten to 12th grade) for the first time are required to have had the following vaccinations.
> 
> ...


unless you have an exemption.. which is allowed! So they are not 100% required.. and frankly, I hear through the grape vine.. it is easy to get a medical exemption for little Billy or little Debbi

So sure they are required WINK WINK...


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