# U.S. Not Fully Prepared For Nuclear Attack Or Large-Scale Natural Catastrophe



## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Canada isn't either, unfortunately.
All over Europe, Eurasia and some Asia, many cities have underground tunnels and catacombs, , some of them were dug in ancient times and many are more modern, maybe because of almost constant wars, people learned to prepare for anything.

U.S. Not Fully Prepared For Nuclear Terrorist Attack Or Large-Scale Natural Catastrophe GAO Says


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Another era of the home bomb shelter. Friend is selling her house at albuquerque has a underground shelter with filtered air that can be manually operated. It wasn't a converted basement either, it's heavy walled concrete and "factory" look. We are looking for a place with good underground. WIPP getting here sooner than we thought


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## rucusworks (Oct 3, 2014)

As soon I see FEMA mentioned I knew this article meant trouble  I'll start digging my tunnel now.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

While you are basically correct, the US government is fully prepared with underground bunkers with food, etc. to take care of the big shots. Years ago FEMA decided it was no longer necessary to stock the fall out shelters of the 1960s and '70s. But they spent billions on the government officials.


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## rucusworks (Oct 3, 2014)

oddapple said:


> Another era of the home bomb shelter. Friend is selling her house at albuquerque has a underground shelter with filtered air that can be manually operated. It wasn't a converted basement either, it's heavy walled concrete and "factory" look. We are looking for a place with good underground. WIPP getting here sooner than we thought


What about area in northeast with old coal mines. Would be cool to buy some land with deep old mines you could secretly have access to.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The only way you can be " Fully Prepared For Nuclear Attack " Is wipe any one else that has them off the face of the earth before they use them. And sense that will not happen. Heck Clinton and Obama have help more get them. We are never going to be " Fully Prepared For Nuclear Attack "


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

We live on the edge of Toronto and even our subway system is extremely shallow and has open exits without actual doors, just removable metal cages/grates, absolutely useless..


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Well its up to you as a free person to prepare yourself for a disaster, we should count ourselves lucky that agencies like FEMA and ses do come to the aid of the sheep... Without them in a disaster we would have more to worry about

Some food for thought from a "free" person that refuses to rely on anyone


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

The GAO generally doesn't know it's behind from a hole in the ground


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

I think this is about saving large populations, most cities do not have a plan for this. If there is a disaster here (even something pedestrian, like a hurricane), everyone is on their own, run where you can.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

TG said:


> We live on the edge of Toronto and even our subway system is extremely shallow and has open exits without actual doors, just removable metal cages/grates, absolutely useless..


Water is a very good shield against radiation. The adult human body is about 50% water, so pile dead bodies at the entrances of the subway. The thicker the barrier, the better. Or go deeper into the tunnel away from the entrance, the more distance the better.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

TG said:


> I think this is about saving large populations, most cities do not have a plan for this. If there is a disaster here (even something pedestrian, like a hurricane), everyone is on their own, run where you can.


Most of the population in large cities in the USA is not worth saving. They have been mostly responsible for liberal socialist government, laws and regulation that have hamstrung our country.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

You will be surprised, a lot of Australian shopping centres and new schools are been built for a cat 3 rating (just in case) 

A lot if sporting venues are also disaster resistant

Nuke is a different situation all together tho and the last place I will be is underground during a hurricane if I can help it 

But to my previous note it is really up to you as a person to prepare yourself... Not the government... And if evac centres and gov building are not up to scratch to deal with a scenario then tbh its not my problem...


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Both, Canada and US are very generous countries when it comes to blindly throwing foreign aid at governments that are not equipped to honestly spend it on their own people who genuinely need it. Sadly, both, US and Canada will not spend even a small portion of the "throw away" foreign aid on preparing for disasters locally, it just doesn't make sense to me.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> But to my previous note it is really up to you as a person to prepare yourself... Not the government....


I think you KNOW that everyone in this forum agrees with you on this point :21:


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Might be wise to read the report and then go back to the original 2012 report before you start rumors of doom and gloom.

And it's funny they've already addressed almost 2/3's of the findings.

And another thing, the federal government is almost duty bound to respect the needs of the states and can't just unilaterally step in and run roughshod over the States on Emergency Response.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

With the sheer number of people in the large cities, I don't think any kind of preparation any country is willing to do would really handle a major disaster. The logistics seem pretty impossible.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

This is interesting,, I grew up with knowing that even though everyone prepares, you can still find a safe place when visiting an enormous city.

<<<Half of All Moscow Subway Stations Were Designed as Nuclear 'Fall Out' Type Shelters
Because Moscow is such a sprawling city, it takes an ambitious train system to get the job done. The subway system, in all, covers 180 stations. Interesting note: about half of them are deep-level stations.
Due to the constant threat of nuclear attack during the cold war, it was decided that the subway should double as a nuclear fall-out shelter.
The system features 11 lines in total, including the Koltsevaya line which circles the capital.>>>

Four Things You May Not Know About the Moscow Subway System « Baltic Travel Company


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

All out Nuclear war? Do you wanna die fast or die slow? If there is an all out nuclear war, I hope the first bomb hits my house dead center. An all out nuclear attack on the US? there will be only two kind of people in this world, the dead and the dying.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

TG said:


> Canada isn't either, unfortunately.
> All over Europe, Eurasia and some Asia, many cities have underground tunnels and catacombs, , some of them were dug in ancient times and many are more modern, maybe because of almost constant wars, people learned to prepare for anything.
> 
> U.S. Not Fully Prepared For Nuclear Terrorist Attack Or Large-Scale Natural Catastrophe GAO Says


Big surprise there! Good article find though.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

I also think it's very funny that folks that have never been involved with preparing for a disaster or developing a plan for one are always the ones screaming that the sky is falling.

Emergency responders at all levels have taken the lessons learned from 9-11, hurricane Katrina and sandy and tried to fold those lessons learned into comprehensive plans that integrate the total response to an emergency.

What everyone fails to understand is that some events are outside the realm of preparing for. Back many years ago, I lived in a land where monsoons were common place and folks had plans for dealing with them. Most plans dealt with handling a 50 t0 100 year event. Didn't do much good when we got dumped on with a Noah's Ark Event (yes that was the term used). Damage was the most severe anyone alive had ever seen.

Failure to plan for an event - no.

Same goes for what you are seeing in this report. Sandy was a perfect storm (or A Noah's Ark Event) in that it was something that has never been seen before a hurricane and cold front coming together to hit an isolated area (New Your New Jersey) with an event that no one had ever seen before. Did things go well during the event. Sure didn't.

Were the folks effected by the event ignored by a lot of folks - especially after the presidential election was over - sure were.

But some folks - FEMA for one - have been quietly addressing the issues that were identified in these freak events. All the GAO report says is that a lot has been done, and more needs to be done. But digging shelters to protect from a dirty bomb? Not really especially since it has very little heat or blast effect mostly just high levels of radiation which are easily countered by Time (lessening the amount of exposure), distance (having folks closest to the event to move) and Protection (radiation doesn't like things like concrete walls).


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

TG said:


> This is interesting,, I grew up with knowing that even though everyone prepares, you can still find a safe place when visiting an enormous city.
> 
> <<<Half of All Moscow Subway Stations Were Designed as Nuclear 'Fall Out' Type Shelters
> Because Moscow is such a sprawling city, it takes an ambitious train system to get the job done. The subway system, in all, covers 180 stations. Interesting note: about half of them are deep-level stations.
> ...


Thanks for the link. Had heard quite a few years back that an exchange of nukes between the US and the USSR would impact us significantly more than them...primarily because of the population dispersal patterns and their civil defense measures..subways etc. Think our current plan is massive evacuations of the big ghettos..er I mean cities. Wouldn't that be fun? How many gang bangers can you house? lol


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

How much warning do you think you will get?
If the government provided shelter is more than 15 minutes away it might as well not exist.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Last I heard the smart folks believed tensions would gradually rise over a few days prior to nukes falling which would supposedly allow the big cities time to be evacuated. Should begin with the breaking of diplomatic relations. Not sure what is the current strategy.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

rucusworks said:


> What about area in northeast with old coal mines. Would be cool to buy some land with deep old mines you could secretly have access to.


The deep mines need to have ground water pumped out and air pumped down. The old ones were more shallow but were held up with timber (wood). A lot of the old mines were collapsing under private homes, leaving an awful mess. My great uncle had a collapse in his back yard in the 1980's. One day we were visiting and it looked like a few trenches with grass on top. Some insurance and mortgage companies want your property inspected for old mines.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

James m said:


> The deep mines need to have ground water pumped out and air pumped down. The old ones were more shallow but were held up with timber (wood). A lot of the old mines were collapsing under private homes, leaving an awful mess. My great uncle had a collapse in his back yard in the 1980's. One day we were visiting and it looked like a few trenches with grass on top. Some insurance and mortgage companies want your property inspected for old mines.


Pretty much sums it up on the Copper and Iron mines here too James.I sure wouldnt go into one nowadays.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Moonshinedave said:


> All out Nuclear war? Do you wanna die fast or die slow? If there is an all out nuclear war, I hope the first bomb hits my house dead center. An all out nuclear attack on the US? there will be only two kind of people in this world, the dead and the dying.


I hope the government B$ is correct and you are wrong. They say that initially 25% will die in the attack, another 25% will die of radiation. That leaves around 50% of the US population to die of starvation, dehydration or being killed by those the unprepared are trying to steal from.

I for one hold out until its my time. One way or another. The way I look at it, with my back, I'll only be good to teach the younger generation.


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## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

TG said:


> We live on the edge of Toronto and even our subway system is extremely shallow and has open exits without actual doors, just removable metal cages/grates, absolutely useless..


I would go to the older tunnels if i where in Toronto they would provide alot of protection in a attack
http://http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/01/a_guide_to_secret_tunnels_in_toronto/


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

oops your link has an error or at least does not open for me, here is same: A guide to "secret" tunnels in Toronto

Unfortunately, most of these amazing spaces are not open to the public but still great options, you are correct.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

A war between nuclear nations? I believe that first strikes would be against military targets. Which pretty much leaves cities intact. The theory is to take out the enemies ability to retaliate and leave somebody alive to surrender. So people in the cities would have time to either run amok (panic) or get out of dodge. 

A nuclear attack by terrorists would more than likely be the opposite and directed against a single population center (city) to create fear. So there is this randomness to that kind of attack, which makes it difficult to prep for. You'd either be ground zero and it wouldn't matter or it would happen elsewhere and your preps would be setting on the shelf. 

In a war between nuclear nations you may have some time to take steps to protect yourself, in a lone wolf terrorist attack, you would either be directly effected or not. Either way it pays to understand the nature of nuclear weapons and the methods of protecting oneself from their effects.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

There was an old government map of nuclear targets in the u.s. 

A few years ago there was a lot of plop about how the u.s. took the cold war targets out of the list, but the other side still used the same targets.


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## rucusworks (Oct 3, 2014)

James m said:


> There was an old government map of nuclear targets in the u.s.
> 
> A few years ago there was a lot of plop about how the u.s. took the cold war targets out of the list, but the other side still used the same targets.


I'd like to see those maps. Do you happen to have access to them from a trusted source?


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## Benja455 (Dec 24, 2014)

paraquack said:


> While you are basically correct, the US government is fully prepared with underground bunkers with food, etc. to take care of the big shots. Years ago FEMA decided it was no longer necessary to stock the fall out shelters of the 1960s and '70s. But they spent billions on the government officials.


I don't doubt you but do you have a citation for this?


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Benja455 said:


> I don't doubt you but do you have a citation for this?


Afraid you'll have to ask the chinese. They're real. I live smack on top of one. But you are going to have trouble finding where they talk about their own dumbs, but other countries do....


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Text here.


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## mcangus (Jun 3, 2014)

James m said:


> Text here.


Well I am screwed. Looks like there is at least 20 of those triangles pointed right at me.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

That one was from the 1990's

This one was last updated in October 2002.

http://www.ki4u.com/webpal/d_resources/list.htm


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