# Why is .22 still nuts?



## Jostyle (Aug 7, 2015)

Ok we all know the prices pre panic and it was never hard to get it. I understood it at first but why has it stayed so high? I have 7k rounds left and havent bought any pre panic and Ive passed it up at Walmart.

With other ammo prices coming back down to pre panic why is .22 still nuts? I have a hard time believing people are shooting that much more 22 then before the panic. When will it come back and balance out? I know guys are stacking it but when does that end?


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

I really don't remember what pre panic prices were but at this time bass pro has .22 lr 100 rounds for $8.79, the local wally mart has the same for $7.99


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Pretty panic it was easy to find 500 rounds for about $5.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

I've been finding .22 at Academy on a regular basis lately although it's a bit pricey but still nothing at Walmart.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Well during the gun buying panic a lot of people were directed to the .22 rifle (rightly so) for their first gun. So if a million more people bought .22 rifles they would still need ammo for it. Add that number to all the people hording it or reselling it and then you have your answer on why it is still scarce. We are seeing it trickle in, up here in the PRNY, but it is a slow trickle. The funny thing is I know a couple of FFLs that say their distributers are sitting on pallets of .22LR Match. I suppose nobody is interested in paying 14-20 dollars for a box of 50 just for plinking/hoarding and at that price there is no profit in reselling it so it just sits in the warehouse.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I remember when you could get a 550 round box for 15 bucks. Now it's rare in my area. None at Walmart. Academy sports is the only place around that has it on a regular basis, 100 rounds for about 8 bucks and still limited to 3 boxes per customer.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Well its common in NE Texas then, because it is only available in small quantities that get gobbled up same day in my area to Arklatex. To boot is usually the cheap stuff that come in.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

In the South East US, Pre-Obama prices for .22LR was about 2 cents per round. It got as high as 15 cents per round but lately it has settled into the 6-8 cents per round area. Most stores still have a limit and that is usually two 350 round boxes. I haven't seen a 550 round brick in a while.

Here's my theory. If you are an Ammo Manufacturer you obviously have lines set up to produce various rounds. The raw materials have probably gone up in price and your Overhead costs are most likely higher too; Payroll, Healthcare, Electricity, Regulatory Costs etc. 

I'll bet your Profit Margin is probably higher on other rounds and demand is equally as high on those rounds. There is no denying that the Federal and State/Local Government is the largest user of ammo, and they aren't contracting for .22LR. Their contracts are for 9mm, .40SW, .45 ACP, 5.56, .308 etc.

You only have 24 hours in a day and if you're running your equipment 24/7 and your Profit Margin is higher on other rounds, and you have contracts for other rounds, why are you going to waste your time producing a bunch of .22LR?


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

As of 2014 ATK was producing 4 million rounds of .22 a day, so if you just had 1 million .22 rifle owners that is four rounds a day per owner. Of course ATK is only one producer but you can see the issue. If every gun owner in America (80 million at last count) had one .22 it would take ATK 20 days to produce one round for each. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/05/how-22-lr-ammunition-is-made-must-see-video/

I think a lot of the shortage has been due to hoarding and panic buying. Before the "crisis" you could walk into any store and find several different types of .22 on the shelf in quantities that would not make you think, "I need to buy two bricks, just in case I never see it again." Everyone (sheep) counted on being able to pick up a brick when they wanted to go to the range, so nobody (sheep) really stocked any.

Enter the Government gun control rhetoric and the Sandy Hook Shooting along with the Colorado and Oregon shootings, and Voila instant ammo shortage. The first things to go were all the military calibers (.45, 9mm, 7.62, 5.56) and .22LR. Then 30-30, .40 S&W, .22 Mag and .17HMR started to get scarce. I have always been able to find .300 Win Mag and .30-06 throughout the "crisis" I guess a lot of people don't shoot those calibers.

Then we started getting into the reloading component famine. In 1994 the first primer famine hit and the only thing you could find was magnum primers. This time the primer famine hit and the only thing I could find was magnum primers in the APS strips. This time the crisis also hit the powder supply and I saw Varget on Gun broker going for 50 bucks a pound. I learned in 94 to have a good stock of components so when I was out looking I was not panic buying anything.

I foresee the .22 and the reloading component "shortages" continuing for a long time because people will not forget the panic buying times, this time they will be ready for the next time (like I was because of '94).


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

This guy found a brick of 1,000 for $50 + tax at Walmart a couple weeks ago. May be a one off.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I remember, a Solo gas station opened up in our small town. It was the first self serve. The first weekend they were open they sold gasoline for 25 cents a gallon. Regular price at that time was between 32 and 37 cents. Times have changed, what can I say? If I can find CCI for 9 cents a round, I figure it a good buy.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

My local shop carries just about anything there is in .22lr and has for some time now. Most expensive it has been is .13 a round after tax on the CCI mini mags (but better if you wait for sales). They carry bricks of all the other stuff too and if you wait for the deals its alright, but still not going back to pre panic prices and I am sort of at the point of thinking it probably never will.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

Yep. I remember .79 cents a gallon gas and ammo out on the shelf for anyone to help themselves. Not anymore.


Moonshinedave said:


> I remember, a Solo gas station opened up in our small town. It was the first self serve. the first weekend they were open they sold gasoline for 25 cents a gallon. Regular price at that time was between 32 and 37 cents. Times have changed, what can I say. If I can find CCI for 9 cents a round, I figure it a good buy.


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## Slippy's-Attorney (Sep 23, 2015)

"I asked an ammo industry inside about the rimfire shortage at SHOT. He was honest with me.

“Everybody is loading rimfire as fast as they can with the machines they have,” he said. “The problem is, the margins on rimfire are so low it doesn’t make sense to invest in new equipment and expand production. We’ll catch up eventually.”

His best guess? Ammo makers hope to be caught up sometime later this year."


------------------------
It is easy to change a center fire run to 30-30 or 44 or 270.... it is harder to change a rimfire setup....


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

It's all about the size of the tool...."That's what she said."



Slippy's-Attorney said:


> "I asked an ammo industry inside about the rimfire shortage at SHOT. He was honest with me.
> 
> "Everybody is loading rimfire as fast as they can with the machines they have," he said. "The problem is, the margins on rimfire are so low it doesn't make sense to invest in new equipment and expand production. We'll catch up eventually."
> 
> ...


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Slippy said:


> In the South East US, Pre-Obama prices for .22LR was about 2 cents per round. It got as high as 15 cents per round but lately it has settled into the 6-8 cents per round area. Most stores still have a limit and that is usually two 350 round boxes. I haven't seen a 550 round brick in a while.
> 
> Here's my theory. If you are an Ammo Manufacturer you obviously have lines set up to produce various rounds. The raw materials have probably gone up in price and your Overhead costs are most likely higher too; Payroll, Healthcare, Electricity, Regulatory Costs etc.
> 
> ...


You make very good points, I'd also add, a lot of people have bought these semi-auto .22's that spit out bullets as fast as you can pull the trigger. And like you suggested, why lower the price when people are buying them up faster than they can make them?


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

It doesn't make business sense to manufacture more(ammo)only to earn less($).


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## mcangus (Jun 3, 2014)

I bought 22LR several times in 2015 for 6-8 cents after tax and shipping. If you want to wait for 5 cents and less than wait. I am not taking my chances. I learned my lesson during the last panic. Spend the few extra bucks now and sleep soundly. Seriously lets say you want to buy 10,000 22LR. Buy it at today prices for $800. Yes it is $300 more than $500(if prices were 5 cents), but is $300 worth it to know you have a good supply for years if a panic hits again?

For me, it is worth it. If $300 is to much, buy 5k rounds, or 1k.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

I am ok spending .10 a round for CCI mini mags which is what I can get. If I can get them cheaper then so be it. But I agree with your thought process. If you do a little at a time the difference is hardly noticeable. And well worth the savings of avoiding the sheering you take during panic time prices.



mcangus said:


> I bought 22LR several times in 2015 for 6-8 cents after tax and shipping. If you want to wait for 5 cents and less than wait. I am not taking my chances. I learned my lesson during the last panic. Spend the few extra bucks now and sleep soundly. Seriously lets say you want to buy 10,000 22LR. Buy it at today prices for $800. Yes it is $300 more than $500(if prices were 5 cents), but is $300 worth it to know you have a good supply for years if a panic hits again?
> 
> For me, it is worth it. If $300 is to much, buy 5k rounds, or 1k.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Long before anyone heard of BHOzo, Mrs Slippy was buying certain rounds of ammo on her regular shopping trips. A few times a year I'd make a bulk purchase to supplement her regular purchases. That is what prepared people do. If you want something then get it while you can and get it regularly if you want to ensure you have it when you need it.

And one thing that chaps my ass is the illogical use of the term "Ammo Hoarder". What is that? Doesn't that go against everything that "preppers" do?

No one calls me a Hoarder of Canned Foods, yet I have LOTS of canned foods. I also have lots of TP and toothpaste and many other things, so am I the reason for the increases in the cost of food, TP, Toothpaste etc? I eat my food and I shoot my ammo, what's the difference?


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I don't care what the price of .22 ammo is. If I never bought another round of .22 ammo I'd be okay. I've moved on, an air rifle works just fine. Let the hoarders hoard.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

More cash to be made in other rounds.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

The difference between hoarding and prepping is the emotional attachment. A hoarder is emotionally attached to their items, be they news papers or boxes of ammo.


Slippy said:


> Long before anyone heard of BHOzo, Mrs Slippy was buying certain rounds of ammo on her regular shopping trips. A few times a year I'd make a bulk purchase to supplement her regular purchases. That is what prepared people do. If you want something then get it while you can and get it regularly if you want to ensure you have it when you need it.
> 
> And one thing that chaps my ass is the illogical use of the term "Ammo Hoarder". What is that? Doesn't that go against everything that "preppers" do?
> 
> No one calls me a Hoarder of Canned Foods, yet I have LOTS of canned foods. I also have lots of TP and toothpaste and many other things, so am I the reason for the increases in the cost of food, TP, Toothpaste etc? I eat my food and I shoot my ammo, what's the difference?


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Have not seen 22 in any local store in --- don't know how long.
I am ok tho--


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

When I hear the ammo manufactures are running 24 7 to get caught up I say,,, Bull Chit.
If they are running 24 - 7 where are they sending it? Ask any one that works at Walmart 
or any gun store and they will tell you they aren't getting any to sell. And don't even tell 
me it's from pepole hording it. It's a shortage by design.

If you were a government trying to disarm a nation and you had problems getting to the guns you
would go for the Ammo we all know that. Now you know the smart move would be to first 
go for the ammo to fit the most poplar gun. How many gun pepole don't own a .22LR?
Even my mom owned a 22. They are an effective firearm. And you can run with 500 rounds
in your pockets. That makes it dangerous for the opposition of the American pepole.

They just tried to get the green tips and the way the bill was wrote it would have taken 
almost all the good stuff. But they had tipped there hand a little when they took the 22lr
and some pepole saw what was coming and started screaming. 

When a government starts disarming it's own pepole and telling them what is good for them
you better look out.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Okay that's an odd angle, the government in collusion with ammo manufactures working in concert to cripple ammo markets. In particular 22 ammo markets. I can certainly see a progressive/liberal government supported by a cabal of anti-gun constituents working to get rid of ammo. But not ammo manufacturers it's their bread and butter. 

I think the problem lies with the metal markets that supply lead copper and brass. You could take it a step further and say that a progressive/liberal minded government is using regulation to manipulate the metal markets which in turn messes with ammo producers. Still a stretch yet within the realm of possibilities. 

I'm out, done. I'll stick to center fire cartridges and leave the 22's to those who sit around like vultures wait for a deal or are willing to pay through the nose for them.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I hope you guys understand, those production lines like at winchester and cci are dedicated.
Meaning they are made to produce only one type of ammo. 
The lines are different even for the shorts, they can change bullets and powder but that is about it.

Also remember EPA forced the last lead smelter in the US out of business.
Now all lead has to be imported.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

I went to a grand opening of a Field&Stream store and the guy passing out ammo said they had several million rounds to sell of .22lr.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

There are still a bunch of jerk offs out there that buy up every box that hits the stores and then post it for sale for 3 or more times the price... Thats why its still scarce and expensive

Luckily, I dont need any more 22lr's or any other caliber bullets. I have enough reloading supplies to last 2x longer then I will live... at least my kids or grandkids will be able to reload as well.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I've worked part time at Cabelas for almost 2 years and here is my observations.

They say CCI is making 3 million rounds of .22 a day, which is 6000 bricks divided between the 5249 Walmart stores so you do the math, the average per store is about 4-5 bricks a week.

The basic .22 hoarder covers a large demographic of society from really really old men and women to middle aged people. IMO they don't know what to do to prep so they spend money stocking up on .22 instead of deciding to prep seriously, i.e. food, water, power, and plans to living without the rule of law.

I know it doesn't make sense, .22lr is a piss poor choice for almost any activity SHTF but it is the choice for people that don't know what to do, so they back stock "bullets" rather than real preps.

My father is among the worst of them, after my frequent talks about SHTF he has gotten a bit better about food storage, but basically is just buying ammo.

His last count he is over 80k rounds of .22lr, my only real victory is that he has changed his buying habits to 12 gauge 00buck and slugs recently over any more .22lr.

So to finalize

the .22 shortage is due to hoarding and that is a response to people reacting in fear to what they know is coming but not knowing how else to react.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

I lucked out and found a couple boxes of Federal 325 count for $18 at Wally's the other day. 
Gonna take some of the Grands shooting over this coming holiday.


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