# Rural vs Urban Survival



## PrepperForums (Nov 21, 2014)

For whatever reason, not everyone has the option to live in a rural setting or even to buy land to develop an alternative location to get to in a SHTF type if situation.

What can people in this situation do to help get themselves prepared?

What challenges will folks in the urban (or suburban) situations face vs. those in rural areas? Can those challenges be overcome? How?


----------



## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

@inceptor has some amazing threads related to this topic that people concerned about suburban prepping should check out as well.

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/urban-rural-survival/41273-surburban-prepping-1-a.html
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/urban-rural-survival/41482-surburban-prepping-2-a.html
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/urban-rural-survival/42226-surburban-prepping-3-a.html
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/urban-rural-survival/42754-surburban-prepping-4-a.html


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Well, looking at the intro picture, if you live in one of those city-center "de-luxe apartments in the sky", there isn't much you can do. If the power goes out, so does the heating/cooling system. Can you even open a window? There won't be any water; you're going to love climbing 50 flights of steps hauling it up to your cold, dark, airless death box. You can't even make a fire to cook. You are pretty much SOL.

Move.


----------



## preponadime (Jun 15, 2016)

Maybe living next door to a volcano isn't so bad after all


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

PrepperForums said:


> For whatever reason, not everyone has the option to live in a rural setting or even to buy land to develop an alternative location to get to in a SHTF type if situation...


Horse Hockey! The United States of America is still a place where a person can CHOOSE to live anywhere he/she/it wants to live. Most people who live in the city CHOOSE to live in the city...same for those who live in the country.

Most city people who I know CHOOSE to put their heads in the sand about the various situations that we are seeing (and have been seeing for 50+ years). I'll gladly give up opera tickets and ethnic restaurants in order to be able to walk outside my door and be able to send 62 grains of instant hurt at 3100 feet per second whenever I damn well wish...

Choices people, choices...


----------



## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

I would respectfully like to add some comments that are simply my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

I do think there are situations where it would be very difficult for someone to move from their current residence. It may be financial or personal reasons, but I don't think that automatically means they are SOL. I don't believe that anyone is SOL until they either give up or they are 6 foot under. I think there are things that people can continue to do to prepare and to work on alternative plans.

Although I don't live right in the city, I do live close enough to one to have concerns. Living here is certainly a choice that I made, but not one I am yet willing to change because I want to remain close enough to my family and grandchildren to interact with them daily. I still believe there are things I can do to prepare. Just my 2 cents...


----------



## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

If I had to live in a city in an apartment I would require a 2nd floor and a balcony. 

Some people say they live in the city because that is where they need to be to make decent money. I hope they are putting money away for a piece of retirement land.


----------



## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Cricket said:


> ...I do think there are situations where it would be very difficult for someone to move from their current residence. It may be financial or personal reasons, but I don't think that automatically means they are SOL. I don't believe that anyone is SOL until they either give up or they are 6 foot under. I think there are things that people can continue to do to prepare and to work on alternative plans...


You're right, if you live in a high rise, there are some things you should do to prep for a true SHTF if you can't move.

1. Face the fact that survival on the 30th floor in a SHTF situation would be really short term. 2. Arm yourself, if your city allows it. 3. Store water and food to ride out the initial die-off, if you are so inclined. 4. Prepare a bug out bag for when you must leave. 5. Leave

You just can't stay there. The uncontrolled fires that are sure to break out when the water supply fails, combined with the WROL zombies will make it impossible.

Of course, if we're talking about a suburban situation, that changes a lot. But the city center will become uninhabitable, in my opinion.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Not everyone can afford to pack up and move away. My wife and I certainly could not in the late 1980's when we could only dream of the country life.
Lack of education (I never got beyond grade 12) certainly can hamper one's ability to land a job in a more desirable part of the country. I certainly did not want to become an over the road trucker, and only be able to spend a few days every couple months at home on a farm.
Fortunately for us an opportunity for relocation and a promotion was offered by my employer, and we seized it.

There is a very big difference between people who CAN'T move, and people who WON'T move.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

If a person REALLY believes that a SHTF event is going to happen, they would be silly to live in a city
If a person REALLY believes that a SHTF volcano event is going to happen, they would be silly to live in or around that area
If a person REALLY believes that a SHTF financial collapse event is going to happen, they would be silly have money in bank

my point is - if you really really think "x" is going to happen you need to arrange your life to best protect your family and yourself.


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

@Cricket

I'm still coming to grips with you being a grandmother......


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

I agree with MM , that's why I am looking for some land out in the country , I need to make sure I have a place to go if need be and it will serve as a place to go for some peace and quiet till then .


----------



## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

> What challenges will folks in the urban (or suburban) situations face vs. those in rural areas? Can those challenges be overcome? How?


I just think we should be more open to discussing that not everyone _currently_ lives in the perfect setting for prepping.

In my personal opinion that doesn't mean they might as well give up.

I also don't think we should assume that everyone who lives within city limits lives in some high rise building.

Again, just my 2 cents. :tango_face_smile:


----------



## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Living within the city limits isn't a death sentence in SHTF. As most of you know I live in a suburban area and I KNOW I can last better than 99% of the people around me. Most of the reason that is true is because I am right here on this site learning all I can.

I am currently saving to buy some property in a more rural area. It's not easy. I also found a nice place in a rural area but there were no jobs in the area unless I wanted to work at the one nearby Red Robin slinging burgers. No thanks! Im too young to retire so I'll take my chances here for now. 

There is also no crystal ball assuring us S will HTF in our life time. I prep in case of not because of.

Sent from a Galaxy S5 far far away.


----------



## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

Coastie dad said:


> @Cricket
> 
> I'm still coming to grips with you being a grandmother......


Me too, my friend. Me too...


----------



## acidMia (Aug 3, 2016)

I also live in the city, though not a centre. This was once considered outright suburbia, but has now been swallowed by a big ol' metromess. We have a Walmart ten houses down now. It's definitely not an ideal area to be in, considering looting will just circle out from there. I'm not in the 'won't' pile, that's for sure. It's a 'can't' for the time being. I'm again saving for and constantly searching available rural properties.

For now, I'm working on increasing my knowledge, and my skills. Renovations are underway at the house as well, which will open up the basement for better storage to begin getting the basics in order. I'm also fortunate enough to live in an older development, so there is an actual yard that I can garden in. As mentioned in one of the Suburban Prepping threads, a garden is possible anywhere! It just might not enough to live off of at the moment, but it is a skill. A tip I got from another thread on here was for those of us unable to grow our own food, or enough of our own food, we should still be looking in to preserving it - check out the local farmers markets, pick up some fresh stuff there, and can it/jar it/dry it/etc. These are also skills that we can work on in an urban/suburban setting.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> Living within the city limits isn't a death sentence in SHTF. .


if you plan on getting out quick it will not be a death sentence... if you think you are going to stick around - this is what will happen

when food runs out..those without will start looking for it... like ants they will start close to home and make ever wider circle of searching and get further out. they will not respect lock doors, sex, age, race, or martial status... if you fight back against the first group the sound will just attract more people.

I can not think of a GOOD out coming for living in a city...at least not long term...

IMHO - if you are not out within a short period of time.. you are screwed


----------



## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> if you plan on getting out quick it will not be a death sentence... if you think you are going to stick around - this is what will happen
> 
> when food runs out..those without will start looking for it... like ants they will start close to home and make ever wider circle of searching and get further out. they will not respect lock doors, sex, age, race, or martial status... if you fight back against the first group the sound will just attract more people.
> 
> ...


Not that I don't agree with you but your scenario is one we will all need to face at one point or another. When food is exhausted in the city/suburbs where do you think those people will head? Yep, rural and you will have the same problem.

Sent from a Galaxy S5 far far away.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I think an equally dangerous place to live is one of these mega subdivisions in the suburbs. You know the type, developed by a huge National Home Builder company where every fourth house is the same floor plan. Usually there are only 2 or 3 ways in/out. Many of the starter versions of these neighborhoods are inhabited by young couples with young children living on a tight budget and most likely not having any long or medium food or water stores.

Then the SHTF and baby starts crying day 2 and won't shut up because its hungry. Young Mommy starts putting pressure on Young Daddy to get some food or water and stress/youth/immaturity takes over and he does something stupid. Then the gangs see these neighborhoods as easy pickings and it becomes a blood bath, especially in liberal gun hating states.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> Not that I don't agree with you but your scenario is one we will all need to face at one point or another. When food is exhausted in the city/suburbs where do you think those people will head? Yep, rural and you will have the same problem.
> 
> Sent from a Galaxy S5 far far away.


I am 2 hours (drive time) from Pittsburgh...20 minutes from the center of town and 10 minute off the main road. Between me and the 'Raiders" are many many people with guns... I will have lots of warning before the horde arrives. My plan is to cut down a few trees across the roads

City folk will be in the battle weeks before it gets to me


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Be able to defend yourself!

Arm yourself, if your city allows it.

To hell if the city allows or not, better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. Folks ask me if I have a carry permit, yes, I say. Its the second amendment. It will be wrol. jmho.


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I do worry about my daughter who is at college in the twin cities being able to get home should something happen.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Cricket said:


> @inceptor has some amazing threads related to this topic that people concerned about suburban prepping should check out as well.
> 
> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/urban-rural-survival/41273-surburban-prepping-1-a.html
> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/urban-rural-survival/41482-surburban-prepping-2-a.html


Thanks :tango_face_smile:


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I have been hearing the same things since I have been on this board. Most say get out and get out now. It's easy to judge others sitting behind a computer and feeling smug. I can promise you each persons situation is different and you don't have enough facts to judge.

I will tell you one short thing about me. Twice the wife and I tried to move. Once to semi rural TN. We were at the bank to sign the papers and the seller backed out at the last second. Another time, we almost moved permanently to Aunties part of the world. I had a small business that was building and the local school system had a contract drawn to hire my wife. She showed up to sign the papers and they decided, again at the last minute, to back out. The person they hired got fired the following year. Small town Colorado. The only way in and out of the area we were in was over a pass. I shut down my business. I couldn't sell it because the landlord would not give anyone a lease. The landlord wanted the business for themselves. I took all my stuff and moved back to Texas. They didn't last a year.

Now we have other considerations. I would love to live a more out of the city life but it's not possible now. So, I do the best I can with what I have.


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I moved out of the big city in 1975 to this rural location.

I am 18 miles from it now, there is a lot of meat between here and there for the predators to feast on and to cut them down.

Those who live in high rises should check the roof for a water tower, many have them to help meet demand pressure within the building,

almost every high rise in NYC has them.

I would, if living in one with a tank, get a bunch of containers to store water in and start filling as soon as possible.

You would have 12-24 hours to fill them before the tank was run down, they fill at night when there is little demand.

The buildings have a dedicated gravity fed system, will still supply water till empty when the power is out .

Those tanks will not back feed the city, all have check valves. Float valves and vac breakers.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> I have been hearing the same things since I have been on this board. Most say get out and get out now. It's easy to judge others sitting behind a computer and feeling smug. I can promise you each persons situation is different and you don't have enough facts to judge.


I can not judge each person situation... but I can tell you that cities have a denser population then rural areas.. with the denser population comes more criminals and more folks with drug problems and more folks that just dont know or care about each other.

rural folks because of travel time have more stuff... growing up it was 45 minutes to get to a grocery store in the summer and longer in the winter and we went through canada to get there.. because of that we did not shop every week... we stocked up a lot


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I can not judge each person situation... but I can tell you that cities have a denser population then rural areas.. with the denser population comes more criminals and more folks with drug problems and more folks that just dont know or care about each other.
> 
> rural folks because of travel time have more stuff... growing up it was 45 minutes to get to a grocery store in the summer and longer in the winter and we went through canada to get there.. because of that we did not shop every week... we stocked up a lot


I understand how cities are. I also understand the inner city thought process. I grew up there. I was one of them. I got out, well at least farther out. Well, actually 1100 miles out. I was the oldest, made the plan to get out and we did. I never looked back. I figured I wouldn't live to see 30 if I stayed. I left when I was 29. My brother once told me that if we hadn't moved when we did, one or both of us would be dead by now.

Getting a new place isn't in the cards right now. That is unless we take up a collection. I shouldn't need more than say $500k. :vs_laugh:

God put me here for a reason. He hasn't let me leave yet. So, I will do what I need to do when I need to do it. 60+ and I'm still learning new things. God has a plan, I'm just doing whatever he wants.


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

This is a subject that has been on my mind constantly and one that I have vacillated back and forth on since I began prepping. As you all know I live in the burbs of Houston. ( Actually Katy, TX but may as well be Houston ) I am no more then 10 minutes from being in the country for now but day by day I loose ground to one more housing division and one less pasture. While not in the city center by no means, I am in the mix so there is not a day that goes by that I am not on the lookout to get out of this city.

For now I will deal with what I have. I am fully prepared to defend and hold for at least the initial stages of an event, but I know this is not sustainable so I do have a plan to bug out and have a place in Kansas to bug out to. Kansas is a long way and being on the road presents a host of other issues as you know. Timing on when to leave and even if I can leave once things go south.....lots of variables at play. Suffice it to say, I look for opportunities in the country every day.

The other choice I suppose is to take comfort in my "Purdy" AR 15 and a "Yummy glass of ice cold beer. :laughhard:


----------



## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm seeing a lot of doom and gloom forecasted here for those that live in an urban environment either by choice or not by choice and I don't think thats the case. Remember, large population areas are going to be the first ones to see aid come and will be the first to see services restored. However you do have to deal with the fact that you have more people going after resources as well as a higher criminal threat level, but since you're on this forum reading my words then you've either started to get ready or your thinking about it and need to read the advice here and get that way.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> Remember, large population areas are going to be the first ones to see aid come and will be the first to see services restored.


How do you know this and what past event has made you think this way.

And - in the event of an EMP restoring services will be months and months if not years or ever

Food production - will be taking place in the country so resources such as fuel will have to get there if the government wants to feed people
Water - Will not be delivered via the local pipes - it will need to come from cleaner areas

It is not that I want to disagree with you, it is that I do not want anybody lulled into a "The government will take care of us" mindset.

It is easy to say aid will go to the cities first....it is harder to make that happen

interesting fiction book https://www.amazon.com/Solar-Flare-Larry-Burkett/dp/1881273075

the government actually argued about what to do with cities.. they ended up going in and taking people out and setting up amish like camps ... good read.

Just so we know, there are not enough police or military to control the cities. I think NY NY has 40,000 sworn officers and they still can not control the city

do you remember the picture of the man stealing food from a child as she was walking home (I think it was Haiti) it would be the same.. the food/water/fuel may show up... but it can not be secured post handout


----------



## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

What all must be reminded of is Agenda 21 which the libtards like O and HRC are lock step in favor of....with Soros' and UN backing.

One of the precepts of the plan is to move ALL the people into Urban "paradises", and only the Monsantos and similar mega-food producers will be allowed in the countryside, insuring that we have plenty of GMO foods to fill our bellies in the city, where we can be "controlled". It's not fiction...it's a FACT!

Vast areas of the country will be off-limits to humans under their plan. And... the move to the cities is already happening due to the manufactured housing crisis. It's getting harder and harder for people to buy or build homes, because the banks won't lend to them. As a result people are being forced into seeking out affordable rent...and that is often only found in urban areas, and smaller living environments. It's all part of the plan, and it is working!

Suburbia is under attack already, being alluded to as a 'fad' of the 50's that is coming to an end. Fortunately, that makes being in the 'burbs after SHTF a little more workable....with land to grow, and less of a chance of attacks....though not eliminated.

Eyes on the ball, folks....keep informed! They want FULL control.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SittingElf said:


> What all must be reminded of is Agenda 21 which the libtards like O and HRC are lock step in favor of....with Soros' and UN backing.
> 
> One of the precepts of the plan is to move ALL the people into Urban "paradises", and only the Monsantos and similar mega-food producers will be allowed in the countryside, insuring that we have plenty of GMO foods to fill our bellies in the city, where we can be "controlled". It's not fiction...it's a FACT!
> 
> ...


I have a farm. I have my own equipment, hand and other. I have self defense. I owe NOTHING to banks.

Soros can go to hell with the Clintons. They will. SOON I HOPE, and SOROS Jr. too


----------



## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

Any of you that don't understand what I talked about in my last post (Agenda 21 and similar).... take the time and watch these.....











Oh.... and they are working to kill us....as soon as possible!






And a long one....but an EFFECTIVE explanation of what the HELL is going on!


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Rural vs urban/suburban, the arguments continue. And I still can't go anywhere.

Most of my life I've been on my own. Only once, for about 5 yrs did I have someone I trusted to have my back. He died when I was 25. I took care of myself before then and I have been taking care of myself ever since. 

I am not one to sit and cry "if only this would happen then...... if I only had that then...". No, I will do what I can with what I have. If I'm killed, it won't matter then. If I make it then I'll know I did ok. Until then (like they used to say in the 60's) I'll keep on keeping on. I may be mid 60's but I'm still learning and using this knowledge to do what I can to make it. 

Who knows the what, when, where, how or why. If I get killed, they will know they didn't get a cherry. I'm not ex-military, nor am I a badass. I'm just a person who learned how to survive. AND how to trust God.

When I go, I figure it will be kickin and screamin. Until that happens I'll keep working at it.


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

In a SHTF scenario, people living at the top floors of high rises may not be plum targets for looting for food. 
Who wants to waste time climbing up all those 15 plus floors of stairs, only to find the loot isn't all that much? 
And whatever they find, they'll have to haul all the way downstairs?

Time is of the essence for the mobs of looters. 
You'd want to be the first, if not among the first ones to loot a place!

If I'm a looter, it'll be more practical for me to go for single houses right away.....and nearby farm houses! 
Farm houses always equate with food abundance! 
I won't want to lose out and go later, when these places have already been picked clean. 

Estate lots have good sized pantries, if not the picture of affluence. I imagine they'll be choice targets.

So, for those living in single houses and nearby farms.....beware, and consider the possibility that looters may not waste time going door to door in high rises.

For a lot living in high rise apartments, typically, there's usually only one way in. 
Have a good barricade, and fortification of that door. That door is what will stand between you and them.
If there's nowhere to go....maybe, it's best to invest in a strong door.
Persistent ones may try to go through the balcony (from the adjacents apartments), so that's another point of entry to watch out for.
Chances are, no one will bother wasting so much time breaking doors down. They'll most likely to hurry out of there, fearing that they'll loose out on good stuffs as looters go from houses to houses. Imho.

Is that a practical assessment?


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

inceptor said:


> Rural vs urban/suburban, the arguments continue. And I still can't go anywhere.
> 
> Most of my life I've been on my own. Only once, for about 5 yrs did I have someone I trusted to have my back. He died when I was 25. I took care of myself before then and I have been taking care of myself ever since.
> 
> ...


I hear you. You're never alone. God will always have your back - it may not be according to what we expect it to be, but He knows and will do what He knows is best for us. 
Remember, this world is simply a stop-over for us. This is not home. 
That's what will make a lot of us not worry too much.

We still dream of buying a piece of land. But, right now....living 7 blocks from Walmart is our reality. 
We have to make plans around where we are today.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

charito said:


> In a SHTF scenario, people living at the top floors of high rises may not be plum targets for looting for food.
> Who wants to waste time climbing up all those 15 plus floors of stairs, only to find the loot isn't all that much?
> And whatever they find, they'll have to haul all the way downstairs?
> 
> ...


No it is not a practical assessment.

as for being on the 15th floor - one word FIRE!!!!!

The rats are not going to think about the farms until the local (easy pickings are gone).... coachroaches do not leave until everything is gone.


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

I think people living on farms will be prime targets. Not all raiders are ignorant, not by a long shot.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> I think people living on farms will be prime targets. Not all raiders are ignorant, not by a long shot.


You think? The question is how long will it take them to head to a farm? day 1, day 2, day 3.

If the event is an EMP.. do you think they are going to start walking and hope to find a farm? Which way to go...

Most of the bad folks have never been to a farm and the vast majority will not have a clue on how to find one

sure, the farmers will have to defend themselves - but a few slippy pikes with craniums attached to the tops will send a message to the future

and frankly all raiders are ignorant.. if they were not ignorant they would not be raiders... check and mate


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> You think? The question is how long will it take them to head to a farm? day 1, day 2, day 3.
> 
> If the event is an EMP.. do you think they are going to start walking and hope to find a farm? Which way to go...
> 
> ...


There will be so many people the law of numbers will take over and farms will be found.

Farm houses burn just like high rises but faster.

As far as raiders being ignorant, we just have a fundamental difference in opinion. Jails are full of very intelligent people, so are gangs........SHTF raiders will be no different, some will be common idiots while others will be very creative and effective.


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

My BIL former ranger says that WROL that everything not occupied is free for his commandeering. 

How long before that changes into " He's a threat and he has plenty of supplies he stole " ? 

How long before that turns into " My kids are hungry " ? 

How long before it turns into " I'm going to kill everyone on that farm and move my family in " ?

I suspect it would degrade rapidly and people justify anything and everything they want to.


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> No it is not a practical assessment.
> 
> as for being on the 15th floor - one word FIRE!!!!!


Do you mean they'll try to burn the place down? If they do, wouldn't they burn all the goods with it?
Will they have time to waste trying to get to an apartment building when there's a lot of easier places to loot?
How much food can there be in a small place like an apartment compared to a house?

Furthermore, some apartment dwellers may not just take the invasion sitting down.

There are no elevators, so the point of entry for each floor will be through the stairs. It's so easy to guard that door to the stairs. The doorway is a bottle-neck, so the mob can't rush at the same time. 
Apartment dwellers are likely to band together to prevent the mob from entering their floors. 
They'll protect their families!

At the first word of looting, that's what high-rise dwellers ought to do. Secure those doors to their floors.
Prevent them from getting breached at all cost.

If the mob meets a resistance on that door at the top of the stairs, will they risk it? Is it worth the trouble?


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> You think? The question is how long will it take them to head to a farm? day 1, day 2, day 3.
> 
> If the event is an EMP.. do you think they are going to start walking and hope to find a farm? Which way to go...


It's most likely going to be like the march of the mob during the French Revolution. 
They'll march and stop from house to house, village to village. They won't target a specific farm and head there right away - any farm along the way as they move will be a target.

The farther out a house is from the city, the more time they have to get ready. If your house is hidden from view, strangers to the place will hopefully miss your house. I saw a movie where a house is hidden from view and the people living in it had gone to the trouble of camouflaging the path that leads to their place by using fake plants. 
If you've got a nice secluded spot, it'll be worth it to invest in lots of ornamental plants and plan how to make it look like its all bush and woods. Fake plants look so realistic now.

But of course, there will be various groups, or individuals scattered and going in different directions.

But the prime choices are most likely individual houses instead of an apartment building. 
In houses, all they have to contend with are the people living in it.

Urban dwellers will have their own problems, no getting around that. They'll be preying on one another 
when food runs out. Hopefully for people who are forced to bug in, everybody will eventually move on to look for better places. Most likely, the young people will move on.
The fewer people there are that remains in the city, the better for those who are bugging in.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I figure one of you guys gotta be right huh? I am going to play the odds to make sure I am covered. I'm gonna get a farm house, a house in the burbs, and a high rise apartment. I will let ya'll know which way it works out ...... when the time comes.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> I have a farm. I have my own equipment, hand and other. I have self defense. I owe NOTHING to banks.


Ditto, But I'll be depending on a few people in my group to assist with defense. My location has several spare bedrooms for members who don't currently live here (they store their preps here) and I would expect to have enough people to flank any attackers.

In addition I have a few spare radios with the ability to keep charged which I hope to be able to spread among several neighbor's families, all of whom are 300+ yards away who I hope can provide an additional flanking layer.

If a "BlackJackStabber" does attempt to steal from this place he will be in for a rude surprise.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Those of you who think gang members are just a bunch of idiots are wrong.

The FBI Announces Gangs Have Infiltrated Every Branch Of The Military - Business Insider

Are Gang Members Using Military Training? - CBS News


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

charito said:


> It's most likely going to be like the march of the mob during the French Revolution.
> They'll march and stop from house to house, village to village. They won't target a specific farm and head there right away - any farm along the way as they move will be a target.
> 
> The farther out a house is from the city, the more time they have to get ready. If your house is hidden from view, strangers to the place will hopefully miss your house. I saw a movie where a house is hidden from view and the people living in it had gone to the trouble of camouflaging the path that leads to their place by using fake plants.
> ...


Tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night. If you think it will be better on the 15th floor of a building with no water or heat or fire protection wonderful

Deleted due to using too much logic and reasoning


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night. If you think it will be better on the 15th floor of a building with no water or heat or fire protection wonderful
> 
> Deleted due to using too much logic and reasoning


I think, worrying too much over being in the city if the SHTF that it affects one's sleep, is not healthy. 
I might just as well worry so much that I'd get hit by a car tomorrow, or get cancer!

I'm not saying it is better living in the city, and in a high rise. But it does not necessarily mean the end.

There are people who can't get out of the city even though they'd want to.
No use fretting over something you can't do anything about. Just prep for it, and try to ride it out. 
The possibility I gave above, is not farfetched. I don't live in a high-rise, btw.

No one really knows exactly how things will unfold should we end up with the worst scenario. There are the sure things to expect, like the lootings and home invasions. 
I think a lot of people living in the city will fight to protect their families, too. 
It's likely to see neighbors having a sudden alliance due to the threat to everyone. There'll be likely skirmishes in streets.
If the SHTF, it's better to be indoors than outside, even if it means being in a highrise.
What else is the choice for people who live in highrises? When people are forced to move out, they will.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

charito;652114)
I'm not saying it is better living in the city said:


> No sugar-coating here, In a true national SHTF situation yes it does. In the large cities with no water and little food only the devious and super strong would survive.
> 
> I hope to never see it come to that.
> 
> ...


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

John Galt said:


> No sugar-coating here, In a true national SHTF situation yes it does. In the large cities with no water and little food only the devious and super strong would survive.
> 
> I hope to never see it come to that.
> 
> ...


I agree with you.

My assessment was given on the premise of a SHTF suddenly happening, and with people who weren't able to leave the city (for whatever reasons they may have) before it happened. If you survive that event (I think people in highrises will have a good chance of surviving that event), eventually you'll be forced to move out.

How long you can hold out will depend on how much you've prepped, and how secure your location is. 
Will you wait till all your food supplies are gone? The longer you stay, the more dangerous it becomes (unless you've joined up with others).

You've got to have plans what to do next, and where you'd go. If you're alone, who will you go with? 
Start assessing your neighbors and nearby acquaintances now. You may not be able to reach your friend across town.
This second stage should be planned in advance. Although, chances are things never happen as planned, it's better to have one than none at all. Should you suddenly find that what you've planned is no longer feasible, what's plan B?

I imagine some folks will end up forming their own bands, since they'll realize that there's safety in numbers. I suppose there'll be a lot of ragtag groups roaming and moving to other places. 
A lot of city folks had come from rural places (and most likely will try to get back where they'd come from, to join up with mom and dad, and relatives).


----------



## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> How do you know this and what past event has made you think this way.
> 
> And - in the event of an EMP restoring services will be months and months if not years or ever
> 
> ...


When has that not been the case? Almost every situation that we've seen in history from natural disaster to military action saw relief and services pour into the cities because thats where the people are and thats where the most good can be done in the shortest amount of time.

I think where you live when shtf hits doesn't matter nearly as much as your preparations do. There are going to be people that thrive in both the city and the country as well as people that suffer and or die in both the city and country. You should know your environment, its advantages/disadvantages and be ready to extricate when the time is right.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I think where you live when shtf hits doesn't matter nearly as much as your preparations do. There are going to be people that thrive in both the city and the country as well as people that suffer and or die in both the city and country. You should know your environment, its advantages/disadvantages and be ready to extricate when the time is right.


 @NotTooProudToHide Roger that.


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Someone mentioned setting fire to a high rise or urban house.......the same threat of fire can also happen to a fortified cabin in the woods. They can lobby molotov cocktails from afar.

I think, if the marauders sees that a place is well-guarded, wouldn't that be a red flag that indicate the people in that place had prepped in advance? That means, there are tons of food in there. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not any better to make prep and have ammos. But we're going to be dealing with all sorts of mentality in a SHTF scenario. Some of these people think they've got nothing to lose, and they can be suicidal in their action.

Unless we've had experience in the military - it'll be easy for us to make mistakes and make assumptions that could cost us dearly. 
When do we start shooting? Do we give any warning before we do? What do we say when we give out the warning? etc.,


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

charito said:


> Someone mentioned setting fire to a high rise or urban house.......the same threat of fire can also happen to a fortified cabin in the woods. They can lobby molotov cocktails from afar.
> 
> I think, if the marauders sees that a place is well-guarded, wouldn't that be a red flag that indicate the people in that place had prepped in advance? That means, there are tons of food in there.
> 
> ...


Here at Slippy Lodge, we are prepared to put the "warning" shot directly on target...


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

The only warning given here when SHTF is when you see your marauding buddies fall dead to the pavement. There will be no shout out, there will be no warning shot.


----------



## dmet (Jun 5, 2016)

Cricket said:


> Me too, my friend. Me too...


lol I have been a grandmother since I was 38. It's such a joy to play with then, then hand them back to mom.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> When has that not been the case? Almost every situation that we've seen in history from natural disaster to military action saw relief and services pour into the cities because thats where the people are and thats where the most good can be done in the shortest amount of time.


Your answer is very generic and frankly only considers localized situations. Sure if there is a flood in NJ we rush aid to them.... but if there is a emp and EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE is hurting... who decides which cities get aid and which do not.. Because we can not send enough aid to feed LA, NY, CHICAGO, ATLANTA, MIAMI..
So who decides which cities survive and which do not... In the event of a full scale EMP, financial collapse, nuclear attack... those HELPERS might very well decide to stay home with their families and not drive to the cities to help out there.

If there is a pandemic, who is going to rush to the cities to help



NotTooProudToHide said:


> I think where you live when shtf hits doesn't matter nearly as much as your preparations do.


BULL PUCKY.... of course where you live matters... we all know LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION.... I would rather have a years supply of food and live in the country then have a years supply of food and live in the city. Yes we all may face the same thing.... but there will not be 1,2000,000 within 5 miles of my location. 
Yes somebody could burn me out or snipe me.... BUT playing the odds, they are in my favor.



NotTooProudToHide said:


> You should know your environment, its advantages/disadvantages and be ready to extricate when the time is right.


SHTF a large disadvantage will be having 100's of thousand of strangers within 5 miles of you. Yes knowing the area will help.. but living in the city is like starting a survival race with your feet duck taped to a chair leg

If you think living in the city is = to living in the country when it comes to SHTF...wonderful, but as for me, I will disagree every time this topic comes up


----------



## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Your answer is very generic and frankly only considers localized situations. Sure if there is a flood in NJ we rush aid to them.... but if there is a emp and EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE is hurting... who decides which cities get aid and which do not.. Because we can not send enough aid to feed LA, NY, CHICAGO, ATLANTA, MIAMI..
> So who decides which cities survive and which do not... In the event of a full scale EMP, financial collapse, nuclear attack... those HELPERS might very well decide to stay home with their families and not drive to the cities to help out there.
> 
> If there is a pandemic, who is going to rush to the cities to help
> ...


At least for now this is still the United States and we're still allowed to have disagreeing opinions so if thats the way you feel then thats fine. I disagree and I believe history supports my opinion but thats neither here nor there.

Now to get back on the topic on hand as far as challenges faced by both locations one thing that I haven't seen discussed is sanitation, in regards to garbage and human waste. The short obvious solution for garbage is to burn it but eventually your going to have to do something with the ashes and burn debris. As far as human waste goes thats going to be a far bigger challenge especially if the water quits flowing. Are you going to use your stored water to flush a toilet? Are you going to dig a latrine pit in your backyard? Are you going to use a bucket and dump it in the gutter? Just something to think about.


----------



## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

I don't know if people overlook the importance of having lime on hand or not. It's something I always have for the garden. 

The last thing I intend to use water for is flushing a toilet.

I have a toilet seat that fits on a 5 gal bucket and line that with plastic bags when I camp. If I was hunkered down, the bag would be buried with probably a handful of lime over it.

Lime is also handy for decomposing animals or people.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> At least for now this is still the United States and we're still allowed to have disagreeing opinions so if thats the way you feel then thats fine. I disagree and I believe history supports my opinion but thats neither here nor there.
> 
> Now to get back on the topic on hand as far as challenges faced by both locations one thing that I haven't seen discussed is sanitation, in regards to garbage and human waste. The short obvious solution for garbage is to burn it but eventually your going to have to do something with the ashes and burn debris. As far as human waste goes thats going to be a far bigger challenge especially if the water quits flowing. Are you going to use your stored water to flush a toilet? Are you going to dig a latrine pit in your backyard? Are you going to use a bucket and dump it in the gutter? Just something to think about.


so no answer to my points....

So who decides which cities survive and which do not... In the event of a full scale EMP, financial collapse, nuclear attack... those HELPERS might very well decide to stay home with their families and not drive to the cities to help out there.

If there is a pandemic, who is going to rush to the cities to help


----------



## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> so no answer to my points....
> 
> So who decides which cities survive and which do not... In the event of a full scale EMP, financial collapse, nuclear attack... those HELPERS might very well decide to stay home with their families and not drive to the cities to help out there.
> 
> If there is a pandemic, who is going to rush to the cities to help


You speak of nuclear attack, nation wide emp, you might as well throw full scale Yellowstone super volcano eruption or outer space alien invasion into that list. They all could happen but the odds are astronomically low and ultimately the only location that matters is being out of ground zero or the fall out area because city or country it doesn't matter if your in the way of either.

As far as rushing into the cities to help, it would be more like people rushing out of the cities to help the surrounding rural areas because most people including emergency responders, medical professionals, electrical workers, engineers etc live in cities or surrounding suburbs. Its simply demographics, most people live in or around cities these days. Your also right in that their going to look to their families and their communities first which would be whatever population center they live close too. Most local EMA, FEMA, National Guard, and or US Military infrastructure that would be used to centralize and distribute aid are located in or close too major population areas.

Do you ever watch the news after a good thunderstorm? I do and it always seems to me that when they read the reports of utility outages that city utilities are restored within hours or a few days while it takes days to weeks to restore power to rural areas. There's simply more ground to cover.

All that being said, I'm not trying to say living in a city is any better nor safer than living in the country during a SHTF event. All I'm trying to say your not doomed for living in a city and there are advantages. I don't feel the need to post the advantages or rural living as it's been pretty well covered in this thread and others. Take it for what its worth and have a nice day


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> As far as rushing into the cities to help, it would be more like people *rushing out of the cities to help the surrounding rural areas* because most people including emergency responders, medical professionals, electrical workers, engineers etc live in cities or surrounding suburbs.


ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


----------



## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


I don't care if you disagree with me or even point it out if I got something wrong but your post shows a lack of maturity and respect.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I don't care if you disagree with me or even point it out if I got something wrong but your post shows a lack of maturity and respect.


I am disinclined to agree with your IDEA that people will be rushing out of the cities to help the poor country mice. You are correct, I do not respect your opinion and frankly find it to be foolhardy and willfully ignorant.

As to maturity, ok... if you think I am immature.. wonderful... but I am immature will sitting on a ton of supplies and living in the backwoods of PA.. na na na...


----------



## dmet (Jun 5, 2016)

I live in a city of 14,000 in a rural surrounding area. Thanks for those who followed the spirit of the original post and offered insights and tips. My first plan, depending on the incident, is to head home to Louisiana. My parents are about as rural as it gets, in the land time (and Internet) forgot. :vs_bananasplit:

Retirement for me is at least 2 years away (I would be retiring early), and I see no sense in selling my current house for a more rural location around here when I know I don't plan to stay in this state after retirement. I have put serious thought into buying my retirement home before retirement so I have a solid bug out location if things go south before retirement. Since I'm starting late, all I can do is hope this crazy world (country) holds together a little longer. I'm not sure that's possible, but here's to hope...

No sense in arguing among ourselves. We all have at least one thing in common.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


Yeah, he's probably right. All in city will be trapped and destroyed while the country people will be unaffected. Nothing bad every happens to country folks. They will kick back, sitting around the fire with a sip of whiskey and shaking their heads. All will be well on the farm.


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

The country folk I meet are fat and have high blood pressure and diabetes. I'm not saying they all are like that, just all the ones I meet.

I'm thinking a lot of farm folks will be seeking medical care in the city........the big bad city........lain:


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Operator6 said:


> The country folk I meet are fat and have high blood pressure and diabetes. I'm not saying they all are like that, just all the ones I meet.
> 
> I'm thinking a lot of farm folks will be seeking medical care in the city........the big bad city........lain:


That's why the have vet. No need for a city.


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

inceptor said:


> That's why the have vet. No need for a city.


Vets are great but are limited in Knowledge,equipment and medications. While some vets have nice facilities and equipment, I'd never let one replace a heart valve or reconstruct the side of my face.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Operator6 said:


> Vets are great but are limited in Knowledge,equipment and medications. While some vets have nice facilities and equipment, I'd never let one replace a heart valve or reconstruct the side of my face.


It was a joke. :vs_laugh:


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

I don't have high blood pressure or diabetes. But I've noticed that a lot of city people look down on the rurals as hillbillies, and a lot of rurals look upon city folks as condescending yuppies that sniff their own flatulence, mistaking the odor for fresh bloomed roses.

Usually, in my humble opinion borne of living in both environments, each would be limited in their capabilities when roles and locations were reversed. So, let's leave the intramural trash talking and learn from each other.


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

inceptor said:


> It was a joke. :vs_laugh:


Yah, well joke or not a vet can do a lot but..........

We have a vet here that you'd swear you were in a hospital. Complete operating room with oxygen and heart monitor,x-Ray,etc. He just repaired a ruptured disc in a weenie dogs back. $3,000 operation. WTF ? Lol!!!
!


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Hey 6, go to the gear grab thread. I done axed you a kwestshun.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Operator6 said:


> Yah, well joke or not a vet can do a lot but..........
> 
> We have a vet here that you'd swear you were in a hospital. Complete operating room with oxygen and heart monitor,x-Ray,etc. He just repaired a ruptured disc in a weenie dogs back. $3,000 operation. WTF ? Lol!!!
> !


I understand that. You should see my vets set up, sheesh.

In a real SHTF situation, you will utilize all the options you have.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Bottom line is that if there was a major nation wide power outage for any reason (something I believe is very possible) for over 2 weeks people in rural areas who are accustomed to doing without power for several days will do much better than people in densely populated areas, especially for the 1st week.  After the 2nd week when even hospitals have run out of propane to run their generators and the city sewer systems have crated a bacteria nightmare with no "sanitized" water, living in a urban area will pure hell. People dying from heart attacks as they attempt to dig an outhouse pit to deal with the diarrhea from water borne illness ect.

After that 2 week period while life will be very hard in rural areas they have a much higher chance of actually having food and the knowledge and ability to grow more food. It takes at least 1 1/2 acres of good soil to grow enough to live on and 5+ acres if the soil isn't as good.

I have two friends who work as engineers for two different local power companies. They both are currently switching their companies' transformers from mechanical switching to computer controlled switching, a several year project. They are both concerned about the lost ability to reroute power manually if something took out the home base computers and how this would kick the generators offline. If there was a major power outage across several states taking the generators offline it would take weeks to months to slowly bring the generators back online as they balanced loads against generators.

Then there is the EMP potential, and yes it is real; instant and total.

NotTooProudToHide, I suspect that you may be more trusting in our utility grid and it's ability to recover rapidly than I am. @NotTooProudToHide


----------



## alexamoretti (Sep 8, 2016)

Operator6 said:


> Yah, well joke or not a vet can do a lot but..........
> 
> We have a vet here that you'd swear you were in a hospital. Complete operating room with oxygen and heart monitor,x-Ray,etc. He just repaired a ruptured disc in a weenie dogs back. $3,000 operation. WTF ? Lol!!!
> !


Only 3k, that owner got off easy. My wife's Weiner dog set us back 8k

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## alexamoretti (Sep 8, 2016)

People are remarkably adaptable and survivable whether city or rural. It would depend on the nature of the crisis. Food and sanitation are serious early threats that rural people are generally more prepared for. Urban folks have an advantage in available manpower and knowledge (from so many people). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Why do I see rural people driving into my area every Saturday morning to shop if they're so prepared, they're not buying anything special. Actually most of them are poor and are not prepared at all. That's just what I see, you guys may see better prepared people where you live.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

alexamoretti said:


> Urban folks have an advantage in available manpower and knowledge (from so many people).


I am sure it will be easier to gather of a group of people in the city to go raid the local walmart.

I am just freaking amazed that people do not get that dangers of a city post shtf. (I am not talking about a big snow storm or a local flood)

1. in the event of a national emergency... who is going to respond.... fema can not handle 1 area flooded, can you imagine them trying to help out during a EMP, a pandemic, or other national event

2. too many people in too little of a space competing for ever shrinking resources

3. History wise.. come SHTF think Aleppo, or Leningrad or Berlin... when supplies get cut off.... and lets remember supplies flow into the cities not out from... cut off the food and water and you have days

4. The water supply close to me will not have 1.5 million people pissing in it

4a - dead bodies historically are horrible disease centers. Hospitals will be overwhelmed and killers

4b - pandemics travel fast through tight packed population centers. stay away from hospitals

5. waste disposal from a high rise will be problematic...

6. heating will be fun and entertaining and also will alert the local folks to your continued presence

7. getting enough water up 5, 10, 15 floors will be neat trick

8 Knowledge... As Hank said.. I had a good friend in new york city his family taught him to be a business man... mine taught me to live off the land.

9. Hank agrees with me 




10. I think that from the basics Water, Food, Shelter, Security, Medical.... the first 4 are clearly better in the country...

I do not care where you live...just please do not pee down my back and tell me it is raining.

and that is all i have to say about that


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

The most heavily prepped people I know live in the city with alternate locations to move to if needed. IMO if your locked into one location that is a mistake. No matter how remote, SHTF might happen at your doorstep not giving you the choice to stay. 

You can't wait out chemicals in the air or radiation, you leave or die. 

Two is one and one is none, that's how I look at it. The more options the better.


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Sanitation will not be existent in the city. How many people will go to all the trouble of burying their poop? Where?
When chutes are blocked, highrisers will most likely be throwing their poop and trash out the window.

Sickness of all sorts will start in the city. Most probably, even a plague.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> The most heavily prepped people I know live in the city with alternate locations to move to if needed.


If you know that many city people that are prepped with alternate locations.. they have a big security FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> If you know that many city people that are prepped with alternate locations.. they have a big security FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!


That many ? What are you talking about ? Read it again.

I said " The most heavily prepped people I know ". Is that a number ? No it's not.

Most are in my group ! Lmfao.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

@Maine-Marine

There is no doubt that city people will have more challenges in the beginning. And many will likely not survive. These are the same people who thrive on just in time groceries, think guns are evil and want to save all the evil people in the world. It won't take that long to loot the cities, then they will spread outside of the cities.

If there is an EMP, even the country people will be greatly affected. How many farmers do you know that don't rely on technology? How many of these people still have the equipment to do what they do without using technology?

What happens will depend on what the scenario is. Regardless, some in each area will survive. Will there be a govt left to assist anyone? Who knows?


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> @Maine-Marine
> 
> There is no doubt that city people will have more challenges in the beginning. And many will likely not survive. These are the same people who thrive on just in time groceries, think guns are evil and want to save all the evil people in the world. It won't take that long to loot the cities, then they will spread outside of the cities.
> 
> ...


in the event of an EMP, farmers will go from mass production to a smaller operation that feeds themselves and provides for some trade goods... MHO


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> That many ? What are you talking about ? Read it again.
> 
> I said " The most heavily prepped people I know ". Is that a number ? No it's not.
> 
> Most are in my group ! Lmfao.


deleted -


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

As far as waste disposal goes, I would remove the septic tank cover and build an outhouse over the opening.


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

A lot depends on your idea of "rural". There is rural as in living outside the city/suburbs, and rural living in an agricultural area. 
Then, there are different types of agricultural areas, just like different types of urban environment. The urban environments here in NW Arkansas are a lot different than the urban environments of South Florida, for example.


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

If you live in the city and there is a EMP , do you really think a person will survive more then a week ?" Hell No ! " . Yes the farmers will feel it but they will be able to fin for them selves , just like we will have to do , " that's why we are prepping " . So my advice is , if you like in the city buy some land and get ready for what ever happens . jmho .


----------



## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

If there is a total shutdown, I can't imagine people existing in large cities for very long. Remember, all those people has got to go somewhere. I also don't think who owns what property is gonna matter much, meaning when you wake one morning, look out the window at your ten acres, don't be surprised to see a tent city. What's ya gonna do, run em all off?, yeah, good luck with that.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

If we had a major event that caused nationwide problems then I think ultimately what would happen is the United States would be a redistribution of surviving population that would be similar 1800's/early 20th century. Your going to see a lot more small towns and communities with populations ranging from under 100 to under 100,000. The big cities will still exist but they'll be a lot emptier than they are today. People are going to die in the cities and in the country. Like I said in my previous post your best bet for survival is to get to know your area and figure out what supplies you need to get and figure out a plan to get out of dodge if you have too.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> People are going to die in the cities and in the country.


it is statement like that that I want to battle. Because on the face, it is true....people will die in both places, but the underlining meaning or point made by the statement is that they are equal because people will die in both places - which I strongly disagree with

Pandemic, EMP, Civil war, etc.... Cities will see more death from more avoidable reasons - There will be more murders, more botulism, more typhus, more frost bite, more starvation, more crazy people without drugs, etc etc etc per capita


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> As far as waste disposal goes, I would remove the septic tank cover and build an outhouse over the opening.


To save water ? @SOCOM42


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> it is statement like that that I want to battle. Because on the face, it is true....people will die in both places, but the underlining meaning or point made by the statement is that they are equal because people will die in both places - which I strongly disagree with
> 
> Pandemic, EMP, Civil war, etc.... Cities will see more death from more avoidable reasons - There will be more murders, more botulism, more typhus, more frost bite, more starvation, more crazy people without drugs, etc etc etc per capita


This I agree with. What I don't agree with is that ALL in the city (or burbs) will perish.

I will give you the fact that rural people will have a better chance but I also state there will be pockets in most cities that will make it too.

None of us know what will happen or when. We all have our own ideas on who, what, when, where and why but these are still only guesses. If I get taken out early, then that was God's plan all along. And when that happens, it won't really matter to me anymore.

But I promise I won't sit and fret about it. I am doing something most every day towards the goal of surviving. Will I make it? That my friend is in God's hands, not mine.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> This I agree with. What I don't agree with is that ALL in the city (or burbs) will perish.
> 
> I will give you the fact that rural people will have a better chance but I also state there will be pockets in most cities that will make it too.
> 
> ...


WHO SAID "All the people in the city will perish!" ???? I disagree with that also

I know what is going to happen... so do A Watchman, Denton, Dwight55 and a few others... it is the WHEN that we are a waiting for

God's plan, yes he has one for everybody. That plan is for us to glorify him, however he has a perfect and a permissive will.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> WHO SAID "All the people in the city will perish!" ????


You an others have alluded to this.



Maine-Marine said:


> I know what is going to happen... so do A Watchman, Denton, Dwight55 and a few others... it is the WHEN that we are a waiting for
> 
> God's plan, yes he has one for everybody. That plan is for us to glorify him, however he has a perfect and a permissive will.


I with you on this one too. I too know that part of the what and why. It's the when and how I'm not sure about either.

Would I prefer to be farther out? You bet. My work shop is my garage. My back yard is not very big. I would like to have a full size shop where I can do what I want. I would also really like to have a large area for a garden. No, I don't have the room to do what I want but this is what I have and I make do with this and keep doing what I can.

But, it has been said all of the people in the city will be gone in week. Not if I have anything to do with it. In my neighborhood I believe there are others that put up a fair amount of resistance.


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

I just don't see the " preparedness " of the majority of " country people ". I'm not buying the " we hiding all our supplies " theory. 

The majority of rural living people in my community are POOR and rely on a social security check to survive month to month. 

We might be having a hoard of folks running TO the city.


----------



## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> I know what is going to happen... so do A Watchman, Denton, Dwight55 and a few others....


I'm sorry.....No, no you don't "know"

You believe, you don't know


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Operator6 said:


> I just don't see the " preparedness " of the majority of " country people ". I'm not buying the " we hiding all our supplies " theory.
> 
> The majority of rural living people in my community are POOR and rely on a social security check to survive month to month.
> 
> We might be having a hoard of folks running TO the city.


Agree. Ride around out in the country just beyond the suburbs and you will see plenty of people/places that are no way prepared to survive. The meth-heads and welfare junkies with multiple kids and no provider except Uncle Sugar, what are they going to do? Or a better question, what we going to do when Meth-Head Mama walks up pulling three stinking multi-racial snot nosed brats in a wagon looking for a handout?


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Land is cheaper in rural areas so you get a lot of lower income families living there. The older people are typically on various medications or they'd die in short order especially without climate control. 

You can't shoot heart disease or diabetes with a M14. 

Without modern conveniences the elderly people will have an even more difficult time. I predict a lot of mercy killing and mass suicides.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

SGG said:


> I'm sorry.....No, no you don't "know"
> 
> You believe, you don't know


There are only 2 ways to KNOW something.. yep only 2.

1. Personal Experience (test/trial)

2. Competent authority

I view the Bible as Competent authority.. So YA, I KNOW.

Based on the reliability of past prophecy fulfillment... I know

and for your enjoyment-;
The study of how we come to know things is called epistemology. [1] Philosophical skepticism is an epistemological approach that posits that it's impossible to 100% know something with certainty. [2] On the other hand, the approach of foundationalism posits that there are certain things, depending on the nature of that thing, that are absolutely known. [3] Various arguments support each view, and ultimately one must reason amongst them to figure out if it's possible to know if they know something.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> You an others have alluded to this.


you may be inferring what was not really implied. Not everybody in the cities will die..just those that are not gang members


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> you may be inferring what was not really implied. Not everybody in the cities will die..just those that are not gang members


So in your opinion since I'm not a gang member, I'll be dog food?


----------



## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Alpo?^^^^^^^:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:

My dogs prefer Purina, so your safe Inceptor.:vs_wave:


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> Alpo?^^^^^^^:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:
> 
> My dogs prefer Purina, so your safe Inceptor.:vs_wave:


Meh, if it happens, ok. The only thing I can tell you is they won't find it an easy job.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Short of a total EMP type disaster where nothing electrical works I suspect many suburban areas will survive although not without damage from lack of medicine and clean water. I doubt major gangs like you read about in the books will ravage the suburbs. Major city centers will quickly become cesspools of bacteria and death if water or power is disrupted for more than 10-15 days. 

Rural areas (average more than 10 acres per home) do have their share of welfare and drug people but clean water is more likely to be available, there is enough firewood in most areas, and people are more likely to have large gardens and the ability to store food they grow. Bottom line is the local resources will not be nearly as strained.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

To the urban/suburban folks. As you can see there are a wide variety of opinions out there. You may choose to listen that the urban/suburban people will go down fast or you can choose to do something about it. The choice is yours. I have made my choice.

As I have stated on other threads, I am not ex-military, no training there at all and neither am I a badass. What I am is just an average person. Whether I win or lose remains to be seen. All I can promise is that, with God's help, I will give it my best.

As stated in all the posts so far, I am not an expert in anything. I am still learning and taking it one step at a time. My goal was to get you thinking about doing the same.

I do have one more thing to post then I'm probably done. That will happen either Friday or Saturday. That is unless you have questions. I am willing to help in any way I can.


----------



## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

inceptor said:


> So in your opinion since I'm not a gang member, I'll be dog food?


If thats his true honest opinion then he's deluded. There are plenty of people in cities that will survive and I'm betting that the gang bangers are going to be among the first to go, especially the ones that start migrating to suburbia where there are a lot of husbands/dads with guns and scared families. Funny how so many nobel ideals go out the window when your family starts getting threatened.

Its kind of silly to even discuss, gang violence and looters are the least of your worries. Lack of clean water, edible food, and medication will be the top killers.


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

inceptor said:


> So in your opinion since I'm not a gang member, I'll be dog food?


 I think what he means is the gangs will take over and any one that they can take over will be dog food ..... jmho .


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

IMO old people are pretty much done for if SHTF for any length of time. There will sickness and the old and young will perish in higher numbers. 

IMO If you're not mobile you're at a higher risk as well. 

When preparing and not exactly knowing the details of the SHTF situation limiting your options is counterintuitive. A combination of city and rural may be desirable or having several locations scattered throughout the country/world.


----------



## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Operator6 said:


> IMO old people are pretty much done for if SHTF for any length of time. There will sickness and the old and young will perish in higher numbers.
> 
> IMO If you're not mobile you're at a higher risk as well.
> 
> When preparing and not exactly knowing the details of the SHTF situation limiting your options is counterintuitive. A combination of city and rural may be desirable or having several locations scattered throughout the country/world.


Lookey here. He CAN say something that makes sense without being condescending, derogatory, or generally offensive.

6....buddy....I'm so proud of you.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> So in your opinion since I'm not a gang member, I'll be dog food?


IMHO if there is a national SHTF event... and you stick around the city and your not a gang banger.... YES you will be Dog Food


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> IMHO if there is a national SHTF event... and you stick around the city and your not a gang banger.... YES you will be Dog Food


I think Fido will find this a not very easy or tasty dish. :tango_face_wink:


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> I think Fido will find this a not very easy or tasty dish. :tango_face_wink:


Fido might not, but their friends Crack Head carl, Tyron, Shaniqauwa, Short slim, Spaddy moo moo, and there 45 other gang banger rapper friends might be able to crack that dish


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Fido might not, but their friends Crack Head carl, Tyron, Shaniqauwa, Short slim, Spaddy moo moo, and there 45 other gang banger rapper friends might be able to crack that dish


Oh, I didn't say it couldn't be cracked. But, then again, so can yours.

I believe that when it happens, whatever it is, it will be God's wrath for what this country has become. We have strayed so far from His word that I don't blame Him. If He says it's my time to come home then so be it. I can do nothing to change that. But if that is to happen, they won't find me in a corner huddled up scared and crying.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> Oh, I didn't say it couldn't be cracked. But, then again, so can yours.
> 
> I believe that when it happens, whatever it is, it will be God's wrath for what this country has become. We have strayed so far from His word that I don't blame Him. If He says it's my time to come home then so be it. I can do nothing to change that. But if that is to happen, they won't find me in a corner huddled up scared and crying.


God's wrath does not start until after the 6th seal is open. before that it will be satans anger at Christians.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> God's wrath does not start until after the 6th seal is open. before that it will be satans anger at Christians.


It could be Satan taking over but God did promise to watch over his own. You noticed He didn't let Job die, didn't you? Actually God's wrath has appeared many times throughout history. It was his wrath that finally broke up Israel. It was his promise that brought it back. He isn't saving his wrath for only the final battle. He has used His wrath whenever He saw fit. Have you noticed that none of the western hemisphere is mentioned in Revelation? Can you point to a single spot where America is mentioned by name? Do you think we'll just be sitting on the sidelines eating popcorn?

If you are God's prophet telling me I'm burnt toast, then I'll give it up. If not, well I'll keep on.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> It could be Satan taking over but God did promise to watch over his own. You noticed He didn't let Job die, didn't you? Actually God's wrath has appeared many times throughout history. It was his wrath that finally broke up Israel. It was his promise that brought it back. He isn't saving his wrath for only the final battle. He has used His wrath whenever He saw fit. Have you noticed that none of the western hemisphere is mentioned in Revelation? Can you point to a single spot where America is mentioned by name? Do you think we'll just be sitting on the sidelines eating popcorn?
> 
> If you are God's prophet telling me I'm burnt toast, then I'll give it up. If not, well I'll keep on.


Sure God has allowed his wrath to be seen a few times.. Sodom and Gomorrah was one, the flood another... but WE will not see THE WRATH as a people until much later


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> Can you point to a single spot where America is mentioned by name? Do you think we'll just be sitting on the sidelines eating popcorn?


tell me, what countries are named by name????


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> tell me, what countries are named by name????


Well that's an evasive answer. But, I'll play. Can we be Magog? How about maybe Meshech? Or could the US be Tubal?


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

*Ezekiel 38 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of[a] Meshek and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshek and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army-your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush[c] and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops-the many nations with you.

Mmmmm????

ETA: the whole quotation was supposed to be in bold but didn't make it.*


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> Well that's an evasive answer. But, I'll play. Can we be Magog? How about maybe Meshech? Or could the US be Tubal?


I agree that the USA is not named by NAME.. heck my 7 year old can tell you that.. the point I was trying to make... it says ALL nations but then does not name all nations.. so is the USA part of ALL Nations????

We will be against Israel..... So says the bible


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> *Ezekiel 38 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of[a] Meshek and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshek and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army-your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush[c] and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops-the many nations with you.
> 
> Mmmmm????
> 
> ETA: the whole quotation was supposed to be in bold but didn't make it.*


*

You understand that only Persia (Iran) can be pointed to with 100% reliability... remember I said 100%*


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I agree that the USA is not named by NAME.. heck my 7 year old can tell you that.. the point I was trying to make... it says ALL nations but then does not name all nations.. so is the USA part of ALL Nations????
> 
> We will be against Israel..... So says the bible


The actual quote is many nations, not all nations.

We are against Israel right now. POTUS has done his best to help Israels enemies. He has disrespected Netanyahu at every turn.

Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.

You are one of only a few that I'm aware of that think we'll make it that far. A few others are into replacement theology. They think the US has become the replacement for Israel for God's protection. Still others think we may be the Mystery Babylon. I personally think we will be a 3rd world country by that time. We're half way there now.

Either way, you tell me it's useless for me to prep because I will be dead the moment it happens. Ok, fine. The problem is I'm too hard headed to listen so I prep anyhow.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> You understand that only Persia (Iran) can be pointed to with 100% reliability... remember I said 100%


Not 100% but there are countries you can point to with at least 90% certainty. Russia, Iraq, Syria, just to name a few.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

inceptor said:


> Not 100% but there are countries you can point to with at least 90% certainty. Russia, Iraq, Syria, just to name a few.


I am a student of Eschatology - I have heard just about every theory about america and or britain in prophecy...

the fact is that nobody is 100%...

I can tell you that the last 7 years (the 70th week) will start with a 7 year peace treaty, once that happens you can start watching things unfold

we should take this to another thread


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I am a student of Eschatology - I have heard just about every theory about america and or britain in prophecy...
> 
> the fact is that nobody is 100%...
> 
> ...


Now I agree with this. The peace treaty will be the beginning.


----------



## charito (Oct 12, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> you may be inferring what was not really implied. Not everybody in the cities will die..just those that are not gang members


Of course, not all gangs will be the badass gangs we see in Mad Max movies, although I'm sure there will be many of those too. 
There will be "gangs" of people who'd band together, not to victimize others, but simply for protection. 
If I'm dying of starvation....I don't think I'd try to steal someone's food, let alone do violence because of it.
There'll be others who feel the same way.

A lot of city folks have roots from rural places....and I think many of them will trek out of the city to go back where they've come from. Some of these folks will welcome the company of those who'd want to go with them, since it'll also be dangerous to travel.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

charito said:


> Of course, not all gangs will be the *badass gangs* we see in Mad Max movies, although I'm sure there will be many of those too.
> There will be "gangs" of people who'd band together, not to victimize others, but simply for protection.
> If I'm dying of starvation....I don't think I'd try to steal someone's food, let alone do violence because of it.
> There'll be others who feel the same way.
> ...


Store up only Spam, none of the "badass city gangs" will touch the stuff ...... they will be looking for fried chicken.


----------



## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

I think the best route for city dwellers to take is to stock up on essential (water, food, weapons, etc), and be prepaired to walk out of the city if necessary. Hopefully you will be able to drive to a safe place before the actual shtf, but be prepared to be forced to use shank's mare (walk). Maybe have some bicycles.

Then there is the problem of where to go. If you are lucky you will have some friends or relatives who will be willing to take you in. If so it might be a good idea to talk to them now and start helping them to get prepared. If you don't know anyone, all I can say is (good luck).


----------



## admin (Apr 28, 2016)

Cricket said:


> @inceptor has some amazing threads related to this topic that people concerned about suburban prepping should check out as well.
> 
> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/urban-rural-survival/41273-surburban-prepping-1-a.html
> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/urban-rural-survival/41482-surburban-prepping-2-a.html
> ...


For anyone who may have missed it, @inceptor has 4 threads on suburban prepping now!

They are definitely worth checking out. :tango_face_smile:


----------

