# Full-auto loophole, awesome shooter, completely legal



## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

So I'm sure a lot of you guys have heard of it, but I just wanted to do a quick post on my Slidefire setup. I used a S&W Tactical as the base, replaced the buffer tube, spring and buffer (heavyweight to slow down the rate of fire) and put a new Slidefire stock on it. You see the videos on youtube, but the thing is completely controllable, reliable, and I am yet to have any malfunctions even using Beta Mag 100rd drums. Before the ATF bans these, I would highly reccomend picking one up. A lot of fun, and when SHTF, an automatic weapon very well may be the equalizer. Highly reccomended!


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I have been to the range and got to try an AR with this mounted a few times. The owner could make it rock and roll but it just didn't in my hands. I only got of a couple of doubles and a triple burst. All other attempts were single shot semi. Not sure what I am doing wrong but sure looks fun.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Beltfed MG for suppressive fire at squad level=essential tool. Full auto rifle =waste of ammunition. But yes they are fun to shoot if you can afford to feed them.


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

Not always a waste of ammo. I've been in quite a few firefights where immediate suppression and fire superiority were key in winning the fight. Not ideal in all applications, but intimidation is a major factor as well. It is still select fire, nice to have in case you need it. I do agree that generally I wouldn't use it on full auto unless the situation called for it, but I'd rather have the option that not (especially for only $300)


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> I have been to the range and got to try an AR with this mounted a few times. The owner could make it rock and roll but it just didn't in my hands. I only got of a couple of doubles and a triple burst. All other attempts were single shot semi. Not sure what I am doing wrong but sure looks fun.


Did the rifle have a front grip? It is a must with these for them to work correctly. Consistent forward pressure on the front grip is essential.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Save your 300 bucks and use a rubber band or string. 

Google, poor mans machine gun.


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

I've tried that before, does work, but I'm not looking for a trick at a range, want a weapon I can carry and rely on 100% of the time. Would want a rubber band on my rifle in the field.


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## PrepperLite (May 8, 2013)

I have never been in a combat situation such as you described Mack0369 but i would agree a reliable item (ie not a rubber band) that allows full auto would be nice and is for meant for suppression.... even better when you have the ability to almost limitlessly replenish you supplies. When SHTF in a major way and every round is precious i'm not sure how practical this will be..

I could be wrong, just my .02


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I have the "Bumpski" stock on an Arsenal AK and it works great! I keep rifle on semi and only use the "continuous fire" as they call it
once in awhile. It is kinda cool to dump a 40 round mag but I don't like wasting ammo either so I only do it once or twice a year.
The bumpski stock is made by Fostech industries and is all metal, well made and very easy to install.

I agree I like having that option if/when SHTF and situation may call for it.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

I like to get my "Ha Ha's" as much as the next guy going FA. Just not pracitcal, and a waste, why they went to 3 rnd burst instead. At 600 rpm, you blow thru 30 rnds in 10 seconds. I don't want to go thru ammo that fast. Taking them out with precision shots is much more effective. To clear a room, use the 12 with buckshot.jmho.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Who knows the sustained fire rate of their AR? It is my opinion that most jam before that which begs the question. What is the rapid fire rate?

You should have the right to own a slide fire. I just think they burn too much ammo to get the job done and mess up some good guns.

Buying tip. If the seller says they got a new AR for their slide and want to sell the old one. Walk away.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

When I was in the Army, I shot the M16 full auto a few times, although it was suggested to use in semi mode more times than not. Last year I was at the range with a buddy, He had a bump-stock on his AR, I shot it, and once I got the "feel" for at, it worked ok. I think though if I just had to have something to burn through ammo faster than I do now, instead of bumpstock, I'd consider the drop in trigger system TacCon 3M but to be honest, I have no plans of getting any rapid fire system a this time.


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## Rwurbanwildlife (Nov 9, 2012)

If you're in a situation WROL, make a lightning link out of a sawzall blade.


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

1skrewsloose said:


> I like to get my "Ha Ha's" as much as the next guy going FA. Just not pracitcal, and a waste, why they went to 3 rnd burst instead. At 600 rpm, you blow thru 30 rnds in 10 seconds. I don't want to go thru ammo that fast. Taking them out with precision shots is much more effective. To clear a room, use the 12 with buckshot.jmho.


Agreed with the shotgun for clearing a room. That's why I have a Benelli M4 that holds 8 rounds. Have used that on multiple occasions to clear a room (not mine at home obviously, but had an M1014 in Fallujah in '06) I'm just saying on some occasions having full auto is a very nice to have. I also have a few 100rd drums, that while too bulky for a patrol or carrying all the time, are very nice in a support by fire or hardened position. Everyone's got their opinion, but if someone is taking pop shots at you and you opens up with 50rds in a few seconds it can end a fight before it really gets going.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I think I would spend the 300 bucks. I been in shitty situations like Mack, and you definitely need to let someone know your playing the same game or more than them. My driveway is 170 yds or so, if I have a beta mag and could put 40-50 rds down quick into some baddies vehicle I think the situation may be over. I wouldn't get stupid with it.


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

Jeep .... exactly. wouldn't burn the barrel off with it, but would definitely make some people think twice, and you can go back to semi-auto with the flick of a switch. Have a long range .308 too for extremely well placed shots, FNAR less than 1 MOA, with 20rd mags. Put both on some sandbags next to each other and you have the best of both worlds. Jeep - found more of the reference material I sent that PM to you about, some really good stuff, let me know if you want a quick email with it.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

Roger that


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I bought one from Bump fire systems for $99 for my AR. Looks exactly like the slide fire, but a lot cheaper. Have not had a chance to try it yet. You are not going to wear out your gun unless you have a much better ammo budget than I do. (I reload and have a pretty good ammo budget on top of that)


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> I bought one from Bump fire systems for $99 for my AR. Looks exactly like the slide fire, but a lot cheaper. Have not had a chance to try it yet. You are not going to wear out your gun unless you have a much better ammo budget than I do. (I reload and have a pretty good ammo budget on top of that)


AK will always take more of a beating. Have one, just don't have as much for it as I already had so may mags and accessories for an AR setup. Love the weapon though. Shot a 500yd USMC Known distance course with one and still fired very well (although at 500 the rounds were tumbling going through sideways, and we were using milled receiver Romanian jobs). I have a whole lot of respect for that weapon. I would simply recommend a forward grip, makes a world of difference on any bump fire, I've had 2.

Also, on the AK, highly recommend miltec lubricant if you can still find it. Put it on, fire a few hundred rounds, wipe it clean and you'll never have a problem again. No buildup of dirt/sand/carbon. Works great on an aR as well, but on the AK, a world of difference as there is more surface area for stuff to build up on and they don't require as much amintenance in the first place. Always upport them too as they sent it to us for FREE overseas.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Seen these. Aesthetically I feel like it's akin to the duct tape plastic windows you see on an old datsun, and doesn't provide any actual benefit unless you're battling zombie duck ponds.

You never know when a duck pond is going to attack though, so I guess it could have its day.


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

I will keep it in mind for zombie duck ponds. Would be a lot of fun for that, or for the flocks of geese that have decided my front yard and dock are their personal restroom. My good one is the newer one, the SBS stock, a lot niver loking than the original. Keep an allan wrench in the stock, and my regular grip in my bob, in case I want it back to stock looking normal. The older ones were ugly as sin though.


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

Heading up to NH this weekend to shoot. I'll take some videos of the setup I have on mine, and compare to what the Benelli M4 does at close range to compare the two. Will do some 50 and 100 yard shot groups with 3 to 10 round bursts from the AR as well to give an example of why I like it.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I Have Become Very Proficient At Bump Firing My Sig M 400. Jeans Pocket Coat. Shirt. If You Are Trying To Get Your Rocks Off. Save The Hundreds It Cost For The Parlor Trick For Ammo. And Use Your Carhart Coat Pocket.


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

Again, not arguing with a lot of the other methods, they are a lot of fun at the range. However, I think from a tactical perspective, and am more concerned with something I can carry and use with more or less a selector switch that is still legal. Always a fan of never bring a knife to a gun fight, never bring a pistol to a rifle fight, and if you can reliably put down 100rds without reloading to suppress an enemy in 10 seconds, then immediately go back to semi automatic fire, it can never hurt. For a patrol, or daily carry, it is setup with a standard collapsible stock and ergo-grip, and I use staggered stack 30 rd mags. But for a SBF or static position, it takes 15 seconds to set it up as a machine gun and can still be used immediately as a standard battle rifle afterwards. Used the new USMC IAR (M27) extensively in Afghanistan, and having the full auto option (even with only 30rd mags) was definitely nice to have (although I still disagree with getting rid of the M249 SAW), but it got me thinking. I just wish the 100rd drums would work in M27 (mag well is angled slightly different, beta mags and pro mags don't work in the rifle). Just throwing it out there for anyone who might consider the same mindset.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

PalmettoTree said:


> Who knows the sustained fire rate of their AR? It is my opinion that most jam before that which begs the question. What is the rapid fire rate?
> 
> You should have the right to own a slide fire. I just think they burn too much ammo to get the job done and mess up some good guns.
> 
> Buying tip. If the seller says they got a new AR for their slide and want to sell the old one. Walk away.


I did several magazines through my A1 full auto (manufactured by the Hydromatic Division of General Motors Corporation) and never had a jam. Unfortunately the US Army would not let me keep it when I got out, actually they took it away and gave me an A2 before I got out.


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## mack0369 (Jul 22, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> I did several magazines through my A1 full auto (manufactured by the Hydromatic Division of General Motors Corporation) and never had a jam. Unfortunately the US Army would not let me keep it when I got out, actually they took it away and gave me an A2 before I got out.


Still run full auto M4's in some applications, occasionally when out in small teams we would run full auto M4A4's before they brought in the new M27's. Same trigger group you had in your A1, just an M4A4 converted with it. Had one for a few months with a surefire suppressor and when we could get our hands on it, sub-sonic ammo. Lot of fun, and like yours, never had a problem. Sometimes newer isn't better. Were hard to come by, but great when we could.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

mack0369 said:


> Again, not arguing with a lot of the other methods, they are a lot of fun at the range. However, I think from a tactical perspective, and am more concerned with something I can carry and use with more or less a selector switch that is still legal. Always a fan of never bring a knife to a gun fight, never bring a pistol to a rifle fight, and if you can reliably put down 100rds without reloading to suppress an enemy in 10 seconds, then immediately go back to semi automatic fire, it can never hurt.


Since you keep mentioning this as a tactical solution, I'm going to keep commenting on it. You're talking about a rifle that has a 30 round magazine. You can't hit anything accurately on full auto, so you're suggesting dumping an entire magazine simply to "lay down covering fire". At which point you have to stop and reload.

Why would you waste 30 rounds ineffectively, only to take a break and give the enemy a good chance of dropping you? Covering fire is an effective tool if it's being delivered by a machine gun team through a belt fed gun, IN ADDITION to another fire team picking and accurately taking targets. If you're the primary aggressor, you're just pulling an Al Pacino and you're going to get hurt.


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## Denver (Nov 16, 2012)

I got a Slide Fire in a trade with other stuff so I have maybe 50.00 in it. It fits my Norinco MAC 90. Works great. 

I wouldn't use it for any "real" application, but... I teach gun safety to the 4H and several church's around here. After hearing the whole drill about rules and proceedure for the range and after we shoot 22lr at paper and get everyone comfortable with how a range works and why we do things the way we do I always end with a little fun for the students. Most of them have experience with shotguns, 22lr, or maybe deer hunting with parents. Few have ever handled a an AR or AK. I demonstrate how the AR isn't the evil black baby killer rifle the media portrays. I show them that Glocks are normal pistols that have sights on the top, not on the side of the slide. I also load some 30 round mags to show them what full auto sounds like from the Mac90 with the slide fire. The kids get a kick out of it.

We usually end the class with letting the top score kid shoot a pumpkin or watermelon with 1\2 lb of Tannerite. Always ends the class in a good exciting way.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

There is an ATFE legal trigger that makes your AR select fire without having to learn how to "bump fire" it. The trigger incorporates a trigger reset that keeps it from being classified as a class III weapon. Just because the trigger resets it is not classified as fully auto but you maintain pressure on the trigger and feel it restting for each shot. It just happens very fast.

I am not a proponent of full auto or anything like it because it wastes a lot of ammo that you may not have a way to replace. I subscribe to the "one shot, one kill" philosophy.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

All those full auto thing are neat but only necessary for those that cannot shoot.

Full auto real or contrived are a colossal waste of ammo. Waste ammo is the worst thing you can do during a SHTF.

That is my opinion.


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