# This year's flu shot may not be "as effective"



## TG

This Winter's Flu Vaccine May Be Less Effective, Health Officials Warn


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## MrsInor

They (CDC) say that almost every year. I stopped getting one after I got an awful flu days after getting the shot.


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## hawgrider

Never. They push them like smack to a junkie.


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## SDF880

I stopped getting them years ago and I have an enormous distrust of the (See Dee See) !


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## James m

I'm supposed to start working for a flu vaccine manufacturer next week. They do other stuff too. But their main business is flu vaccines. 

I don't get them myself. Last time a few years ago I got sick. So.


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## oldgrouch

I had the shot last year and never had the flu ---- just a 5 month run of pneumonia (Dec - April) This year I signed up for a pneumonia shot.


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## oddapple

James m said:


> I'm supposed to start working for a flu vaccine manufacturer next week. They do other stuff too. But their main business is flu vaccines.
> 
> I don't get them myself. Last time a few years ago I got sick. So.


Normal. Manufacturers don't use them.

This year curiously enough is early and has already killed a couple people but it is one that gets the able bodied, not babies and old folks - not that they wont be affected.
I can't think anything like that this country wants to sell me right now can be good and may be really bad. We fight it off pretty good just paying attention and eating well.


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## bernzzii

I gotten the flu shot once, and that was to see if I would actually get the flu. Otherwise I have yet to suffer a flu.


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## tango

I haven't had a flu shot since my Navy days when it was required.
That was a looonngg time ago.


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## Smitty901

Got mine ,get it every year works for me.. Our company offers them free to all employees. It works for them huge drop in numbers of missed days and this time of year with weather problems it does make a difference.


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## cobracon2

I get one every year. Have a daughter in school. I was getting sick every year when she brought it home. Since then the whole family has been getting then, we have yet to catch the flu.


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## turbo6

I get them because it's free via my employer, but not mandatory. 

I rarely get sick regardless, and probably didn't have one from age 10-25 either. 

But alas, pharmaceuticals are big money and it's easy to push things under the guise "it's good for you" when in fact it's even better for their pockets...and perhaps not as effective as they claim.


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## Go2ndAmend

I got mine about an hour ago. Too many kids in the house to take a chance. They are carriers of all sorts of things from their school mates.


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## ntxwheels

Got a flu shot every year while in the Military. Got the flu within a month of getting the shot every year for 21 years.

Haven't had a flu shot since I retired and haven't had the flu either.


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## DerBiermeister

It's quite interesting at the number of folks posting on this thread who scoff at the flu shot. I think once you get up in years, you'll think differently. Your body's immune system starts going south as you age, especially if you have any of the many auto-immune diseases we have in our society. Add to that - once you get the flu, it is much tougher to kick IF you are old. The flu -- the REAL flu -- is very severe and can easily go into pneumonia. Nothing to screw around with. I had this happen to me last March, and I was one sick puppy. 

I agree, they often miss the mark with producing the right flu shot for the strains that actually arrive. But, I think some years they do nail it. 
As I am not one who believes the shot can actually give you the flu, I am not going to play Russian Roulette with this scurge. I get mine every year. In the last few years, because I am over 65, they have given me a double dose. This year's shot is supposed to last almost a year, but is most effective for 6 months. (Used to be only 3 months.) It takes a full two weeks before it offers protection -- again, assuming you are exposed to the strain that the shot is made for.


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## MrsInor

I am still not getting one. I remember the cattle call in basic where we all lined up for the flu shot where they used the "gun". Never saw so many big husky men fainting. A few days later I was one of fifteen girls who had to keep emptying buckets of vomit from the gals who got sick from it.


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## ntxwheels

DerBiermeister said:


> It's quite interesting at the number of folks posting on this thread who scoff at the flu shot. I think once you get up in years, you'll think differently. Your body's immune system starts going south as you age, especially if you have any of the many auto-immune diseases we have in our society. Add to that - once you get the flu, it is much tougher to kick IF you are old. The flu -- the REAL flu -- is very severe and can easily go into pneumonia. Nothing to screw around with. I had this happen to me last March, and I was one sick puppy.
> 
> I agree, they often miss the mark with producing the right flu shot for the strains that actually arrive. But, I think some years they do nail it.
> As I am not one who believes the shot can actually give you the flu, I am not going to play Russian Roulette with this scurge. I get mine every year. In the last few years, because I am over 65, they have given me a double dose. This year's shot is supposed to last almost a year, but is most effective for 6 months. (Used to be only 3 months.) It takes a full two weeks before it offers protection -- again, assuming you are exposed to the strain that the shot is made for.


Eat healthy, exercise, get the proper amount of sleep and stay out of crowds. I'm 66 and they can shove their flu shots anywhere but in me.


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## DerBiermeister

ntxwheels said:


> Got a flu shot every year while in the Military. *Got the flu within a month of getting the shot every year for 21 years*.
> 
> Haven't had a flu shot since I retired and haven't had the flu either.


Sorry -- but I seriously doubt you had the REAL FLU 21 years in a row. What you had is what we all get, and it is what fills up the doctor's offices each year. I call it the Crud. I get it just about every year too, and as it progresses, I feel pretty rotten. The flu shot offers ZERO protection against this, just as it will not protect you from the common cold.

But if you've ever had the real flu, you'll know the difference. It knocks you on your ass to where you can't even think about getting out of bed for about two weeks.


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## ntxwheels

DerBiermeister said:


> Sorry -- but I seriously doubt you had the REAL FLU 21 years in a row. What you had is what we all get, and it is what fills up the doctor's offices each year. I call it the Crud. I get it just about every year too, and as it progresses, I feel pretty rotten. The flu shot offers ZERO protection against this, just as it will not protect you from the common cold.
> 
> But if you've ever had the real flu, you'll know the difference. It knocks you on your ass to where you can't even think about getting out of bed for about two weeks.


Does being admitted to the hospital within a month of the 'flu' shot eleven different times count. I'm familiar with what's called the crud and what I got every damn year wasn't the crud.
And ain't it strange I haven't had the crud or anything else since I haven't had a flu shot..


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## DerBiermeister

ntxwheels said:


> Eat healthy, exercise, get the proper amount of sleep and stay out of crowds. I'm 66 and they can shove their flu shots anywhere but in me.


Well, check back with me in about 5 years.

Just for the record -- I eat pretty good, I walk 3-4 miles every day and have done so for 24 years. (I've reached my original goal of walking the circumference of the earth.) I get at least 8-9 hours sleep every single night, AND I wrote the book on how to avoid crowds (color me paranoid).


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## DerBiermeister

ntxwheels said:


> Does being admitted to the hospital within a month of the 'flu' shot eleven different times count. ........ And ain't it strange I haven't had the crud or anything else since I haven't had a flu shot..


I think you need to donate your body to medical science. ::clapping::


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## thepeartree

I never used to get a flu shot. Got sick twice a year with a bad cold, too, regular as clockwork. At least 3 days in bed, maybe 5 or 6. That went on for 30 years. Then I got medical insurance that would pay for it and started getting the shot. Haven't had a bad cold or flu since. I also get a pneumonia shot every year or three. 

They were on tv this morning, though, saying that they were well into vaccine production when half the strains suddenly mutated. The vaccine is not effective for half the strains out there now.


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## TG

I seem to be imune to pretty much anything so flu shot is not for me but many of my friends get the shot every year and still get sick several times each winter, I don't see the point.


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## MrsInor

I wonder if getting the flu shot every year is like getting too many antibiotics and your body gets immune?


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## DerBiermeister

Me thinks you all take the flu too ..... nonchalantly

https://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

What happened once, can happen again.


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## turbo6

MrsInor said:


> I wonder if getting the flu shot every year is like getting too many antibiotics and your body gets immune?


Flu shots are different every year, whereas the antibiotics treating colds are largely staying the same.


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## RNprepper

I'd rather be 60% protected than 0%. OK, not to beat a dead horse or start an argument, because we've been around this mountain before, but a few facts:
1)You can be strong and healthy, without any symptoms of flu and still be able to spread the virus to others.
2)The very young and very old do not have well developed immune systems and are most vulnerable to regular flu. The best way to protect them is to surround them with vaccinated people. Any one with an autoimmune disease or chronic disease is very vulnerable (MS, Lupus, cancer, etc.) The best way to protect them is to surround them with vaccinated people. This is the main reason I get my shot every year - to protect my patients and my vulnerable family members. I see it as a moral obligation.
3)The most deadly pandemics kill the strongest. Their immune system goes into overdrive and people basically drown in the products of their own immune response.
4) The flu shot can prevent heart attacks. An active case of influenza produces a very high inflammatory response in the body. This can trigger an MI in someone who already has coronary artery disease (CAD).
5) The flu shot cannot give you the flu. It is a killed vaccine (except the Flumist which is given intranasally to kids.) It takes about 2 weeks to take effect. You can still get the flu if you happen to be incubating the virus when you are vaccinated.
6) If you get a good case of influenza, you will not care if you live or die. It is that miserable. What a way to spend your vacation time! I prefer to save up my PTO for vacations that I can enjoy.
7)If you are worried about thimerisol, ask for a single unit dose, or get the intradermal vaccine. They do not have the preservative. BTW, there is more mercury in a can of tuna than in a flu shot. You put more chemicals in your body with a can of soda than with a flu shot.
8)Prevent the flu: Vaccinate, wash hands, cover coughs, practice social isolation (stay away from sick people.)


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## RNprepper

MrsInor said:


> I wonder if getting the flu shot every year is like getting too many antibiotics and your body gets immune?


No. Each flu shot gives you a little bit more reserve immunity. The strong immunity wears off within a year, which is why you need one every year. Besides the fact that the flu shot changes as different flu strains are predicted each year. This years shot is the same as last years, but there is a strain of influenza A that has shifted (mutated) after the vaccine came out. That happens. Influenza viruses are very dynamic. If this particular strain of A sticks around, it will probably be included in next years shot. (There are always 2 strains of A and 1 strain of B in the vaccine - a TRIVALENT vaccine.)

Taking too many antibiotics does not make your_ body _immune. What gets immune are the _bugs_ themselves. If someone does not take the right dose of medication or take it for the incorrect time, some of the strongest bugs will survive. They will produce a stronger strain of bacteria that will be more resistant to the medication. It's purely survival of the fittest - and not a good thing when bacterial bugs are involved. That is why we now have super bugs like MRSA and VRE and multi-drug resistant TB.


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## RNprepper

turbo6 said:


> Flu shots are different every year, whereas the antibiotics treating colds are largely staying the same.


Antibiotics are used to treat bacterial infections - not colds which are caused by viruses. Often there are secondary bacterial infections that come after a viral infection - and that is where an antibiotic can help. But a cold is not going to go away with an antibiotic - bad use of medication.


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## MrsInor

Okay you convinced me - I'll go get a flu shot.


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## RNprepper

MrsInor said:


> Okay you convinced me - I'll go get a flu shot.


Good for you! The way to prevent getting the flu after a flu shot is to get your flu shot earlier in the season so you reduce the liklihood that you are actually incubating the flu at the time of vaccination.


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## oddapple

With ED68 the un vaccinated kids didn't get sick or die.
If you are in a herd of mess maybe. There is great discrepancy and argument about cumulative weakening and negative effects. Saying "oh each one is different" is only a public talk argument. Not one that works on pros.
I think you should do what you think - but I won't give them. I am not interested in being used as anybody's feckless petri dish for strain development or carrying any genetic material that responds to other triggers.
The bottom line is the cdc is militarized, making bank and full of lies. I wouldn't buy dirt they endorsed. Not when the war being conducted seems to be against us and the "vaccines" just keep coming. What is a reality every year is suddenly the "reason" that the main one isn't even on the menu? All that said was "buy it anyway but there will be numbers". Pffft


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## RNprepper

oddapple said:


> With ED68 the un vaccinated kids didn't get sick or die.
> If you are in a herd of mess maybe. There is great discrepancy and argument about cumulative weakening and negative effects. Saying "oh each one is different" is only a public talk argument. Not one that works on pros.
> I think you should do what you think - but I won't give them. I am not interested in being used as anybody's feckless petri dish for strain development or carrying any genetic material that responds to other triggers.
> The bottom line is the cdc is militarized, making bank and full of lies. I wouldn't buy dirt they endorsed. Not when the war being conducted seems to be against us and the "vaccines" just keep coming. What is a reality every year is suddenly the "reason" that the main one isn't even on the menu? All that said was "buy it anyway but there will be numbers". Pffft


We aren't talking about ED 68.
The reason why the "main one isn't even on the menu" is that these influenza viruses start in Asia. Researchers try to identify which strains are mutating and the most likely to be causative agents by the time they reach the west, as well as tracking the circulating known strains. Once these strains are identified, vaccines manufacturing begins. This process takes months. By the time the vaccine is ready for distribution, the viral strains may have already mutated. No flu vaccine is 100%. 80% is good. Sometimes it only hits 60%. 
However, with the elderly, even with a 100% vaccine, they may only develop 40% protection. That is why the double dose flu shot was developed for the elderly, and why it is so important that their family members are vaccinated.

Not everything the CDC does is a conspiracy. Not every drug or vaccine manufacturer is running a conspiracy campaign. Up to 40,000 people die IN THE UNITED STATES each year from the flu. It would be even higher without the vaccine, and it could be a lot lower if everyone would just get their doggone flu shot. It's a tiny bit of killed virus for goodness sake, and so much easier on your body than getting the full blown, live, virulent influenza.

BTW, the FDA does not allow flu vaccines with adjuvant in the US, unlike many other countries. That makes our flu shots even safer.


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## RNprepper

TorontoGal said:


> I seem to be imune to pretty much anything so flu shot is not for me but many of my friends get the shot every year and still get sick several times each winter, I don't see the point.


And as an ex-employee health nurse who gave the flu shot to thousands of employees each year, I can tell you there are many more people who find the boost to their immune systems from the flu shot keeps them from getting as many colds each winter. As our vaccination rates went up, the lost work from sick days went down. Strong healthy younger people can often resist the flu themselves, but can still spread it to others who may not be as healthy. This is the main reason why I get the shot every year. I have elderly parents, a new baby in the family, and patients who are vulnerable due to illness. I have personally never had the flu, but I sure don't ever want to give it to someone else. As a prepper, I try to keep myself as protected as possible. When SHTF, there will be high levels of stress, dietary changes, and fatigue - all key triggers for illness. Getting knocked flat with the flu is not very conducive for survival. So for me, there are a lot of points for getting the shot.


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## oddapple

ED68 got everyone and is an immune weakener. They only knew because it got their most vaccine weakened or antibiotic weakened kids. But they're carrying it as a wrakener, which does seem curious in a year where the main strain "drops the army, not the granny" and every year there are strains not in the vaccine, but this year it is "the reason" - not just that it is their first season raw with their new bug....it's not the immune weakening imported disease, it's because of something that happens every year anyway....
Science is not conspiracy. 
But let them get everybody you can? Jesus was big on believing for pay doctors blindly like a desperate child and government manipulated authorities......heavy vaccinater too. 
But one thing Jesus did know about was gmo diseases and the role of poxing the public to fundraise. He absolutely knew about that. Just a different government.

I suppose there's nothing to militia/prepper heartland getting an immune weakener imported to the whole Midwest a few weeks before a drop-the-able flu with a strong pneumonia feature flies under the new "you have tespiratory!" Executive orders.....naw....all that boiler plate hooey is it. Go.get a shot! (Pffft)


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## bigwheel

TorontoGal said:


> This Winter's Flu Vaccine May Be Less Effective, Health Officials Warn


There ya go. They aint going to stick me with it anyway.


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## RNprepper

oddapple said:


> ED68 got everyone and is an immune weakener. They only knew because it got their most vaccine weakened or antibiotic weakened kids. But they're carrying it as a wrakener, which does seem curious in a year where the main strain "drops the army, not the granny" and every year there are strains not in the vaccine, but this year it is "the reason" - not just that it is their first season raw with their new bug....it's not the immune weakening imported disease, it's because of something that happens every year anyway....
> Science is not conspiracy.
> But let them get everybody you can? Jesus was big on believing for pay doctors blindly like a desperate child and government manipulated authorities......heavy vaccinater too.
> But one thing Jesus did know about was gmo diseases and the role of poxing the public to fundraise. He absolutely knew about that. Just a different government.
> 
> I suppose there's nothing to militia/prepper heartland getting an immune weakener imported to the whole Midwest a few weeks before a drop-the-able flu with a strong pneumonia feature flies under the new "you have tespiratory!" Executive orders.....naw....all that boiler plate hooey is it. Go.get a shot! (Pffft)


I sure would like to continue the discussion, but I really cannot connect your words with what you might be meaning, no matter how many times I read it. Sorry.


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## thepeartree

DerBiermeister said:


> I think you need to donate your body to medical science. ::clapping::


I think you need to donate your body to science fiction...


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## thepeartree

RNprepper said:


> And as an ex-employee health nurse who gave the flu shot to thousands of employees each year, I can tell you there are many more people who find the boost to their immune systems from the flu shot keeps them from getting as many colds each winter. As our vaccination rates went up, the lost work from sick days went down. Strong healthy younger people can often resist the flu themselves, but can still spread it to others who may not be as healthy. This is the main reason why I get the shot every year. I have elderly parents, a new baby in the family, and patients who are vulnerable due to illness. I have personally never had the flu, but I sure don't ever want to give it to someone else. As a prepper, I try to keep myself as protected as possible. When SHTF, there will be high levels of stress, dietary changes, and fatigue - all key triggers for illness. Getting knocked flat with the flu is not very conducive for survival. So for me, there are a lot of points for getting the shot.


That's a good point, RNP. I think maybe we should get vaccinated for everything on the shelf as a part of prepping. I've got a good start and I'll keep going.


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## TG

RNprepper said:


> And as an ex-employee health nurse who gave the flu shot to thousands of employees each year, I can tell you there are many more people who find the boost to their immune systems from the flu shot keeps them from getting as many colds each winter. As our vaccination rates went up, the lost work from sick days went down. Strong healthy younger people can often resist the flu themselves, but can still spread it to others who may not be as healthy. This is the main reason why I get the shot every year. I have elderly parents, a new baby in the family, and patients who are vulnerable due to illness. I have personally never had the flu, but I sure don't ever want to give it to someone else. As a prepper, I try to keep myself as protected as possible. When SHTF, there will be high levels of stress, dietary changes, and fatigue - all key triggers for illness. Getting knocked flat with the flu is not very conducive for survival. So for me, there are a lot of points for getting the shot.


I have never had the flu or any colds and escaped all of the usual childhood infections, I can't imagine getting a flu shot. My kids are the same way.


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## Kahlan

My mother almost died from Guillain-Barre syndrome. She got sick almost a week after receiving her flu shot. She was in the hospital for a year, paralyzed from the neck down with a machine having to breathe for her. According to the CDC "On very rare occasions, they may develop GBS in the days or weeks after getting a vaccination."

Her doctors and specialists all agreed in her case that is what gave it to her. I don't know if they were right and I know the risk is probably infinitesimal but after having seen it and watch her live through it I just can't bring myself to get one. I just can't. It absolutely terrifies me. I would never tell somebody else not to get one because of what my family experienced but I can't get one myself.


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## Arklatex

Smitty901 said:


> Got mine ,get it every year works for me.. Our company offers them free to all employees. It works for them huge drop in numbers of missed days and this time of year with weather problems it does make a difference.


Same answer as above.

I got the flu about 5 years ago. It was horrible, knocked me into bed for a solid week or more. Up to that point I never got the shot. I rarely get sick and that was an eye opener. I've gotten the shot every year since hoping I won't have to go through the flu again. The shots have never made me sick, just have a sore arm for a day or two. On the other hand my wife got one last year (from a different place) and it made her sick... At work they tell us if the shot has made you sick in the past you should not take it again.


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## dannydefense

This kind of discussion belongs in a religious section.


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## DerBiermeister

oddapple said:


> ED68 got everyone and is an immune weakener. They only knew because it got their most vaccine weakened or antibiotic weakened kids. But they're carrying it as a wrakener, which does seem curious in a year where the main strain "drops the army, not the granny" and every year there are strains not in the vaccine, but this year it is "the reason" - not just that it is their first season raw with their new bug....it's not the immune weakening imported disease, it's because of something that happens every year anyway....
> Science is not conspiracy.
> But let them get everybody you can? Jesus was big on believing for pay doctors blindly like a desperate child and government manipulated authorities......heavy vaccinater too.
> But one thing Jesus did know about was gmo diseases and the role of poxing the public to fundraise. He absolutely knew about that. Just a different government.
> 
> I suppose there's nothing to militia/prepper heartland getting an immune weakener imported to the whole Midwest a few weeks before a drop-the-able flu with a strong pneumonia feature flies under the new "you have tespiratory!" Executive orders.....naw....all that boiler plate hooey is it. Go.get a shot! (Pffft)


Aw geez ........


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## DerBiermeister

thepeartree said:


> I think you need to donate your body to science fiction...


I tried ... but they wouldn't have me


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## JJ308

I never get the flu on a regular basis, except for my younger years surrounded by other siblings, and now will get it only ever few years or so. I just deal with it when it comes and it has never really put me down for more then two days. So for me, I just don't see a need for one. 

You know I'm going to get it this year now that I posted this!!


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## DerBiermeister

TorontoGal said:


> I have never had the flu or any colds and escaped all of the usual childhood infections, I can't imagine getting a flu shot. My kids are the same way.


Count yourself among one of the lucky ones. To have never had even a cold is one of the most amazing things I have ever heard. NOT TALKING THE FLU HERE, but there are something like 110 rhinovirus' that give us the common cold. Once you get one of them, you can never get it again. But with so many (110) it is no wonder that I and most everyone else who walks the earth, has at least one or two colds per year. So running the numbers -- I guess I've had something like over a hundred colds in my lifetime. Maybe I have run the gauntlet on them?


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## DerBiermeister

JJ308 said:


> I never get the *flu* on a regular basis, except for my younger years surrounded by other siblings, and now will get it only ever few years or so. I just deal with it when it comes and *it has never really put me down for more then two days*. So for me, I just don't see a need for one.


I apologize if I have misread your words. But I think you are saying that you get the flu "every few years or so" and you always get over it in two days.

Somehow I believe you have the flu mixed up with the common cold.


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## MI.oldguy

We get flu shots every year anyway.who knows,it may keep us from getting sick.


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## JJ308

DerBiermeister said:


> I apologize if I have misread your words. But I think you are saying that you get the flu "every few years or so" and you always get over it in two days.
> 
> Somehow I believe you have the flu mixed up with the common cold.


No, I think I am talking about the flu. Puking, body aching, cold sweats, etc. I'm not a doctor, but I consider that the flu as oppose to runny nose, stuffy head and such, which I don't get yearly either. 
If you are asking this based on the length of time I stated, I not sure how to answer, but I will say what ever it is I get has never lasted for more then two days.


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## DerBiermeister

Ok 
No doctor either, but I would love to hear from the nurses. RNprepper? Tired Nurse?

I personally don't think it is possible to get over the REAL flu in two days. But I've been wrong before...


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## JJ308

DerBiermeister said:


> Ok
> No doctor either, but I would love to hear from the nurses. RNprepper? Tired Nurse?
> 
> I personally don't think it is possible to get over the REAL flu in two days. But I've been wrong before...


Me too! If they disagree, then I have never had the flu in the time I have been alive, and I am not young. But I doubt that is true.


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## DerBiermeister

JJ308 said:


> Me too! If they disagree, then I have never had the flu in the time I have been alive, and I am not young. But I doubt that is true.


I am 71 years old and had my FIRST case of flu last March. It quickly turned into pneumonia. For my whole life, I have had terrible episodes of the CRUD, that last anywhere from two weeks to a month, depending on how bad the resulting bronchitis lasts. The way I know it was never the flu, is because I never run much of a fever. Some years no fever, other years just a minor fever for a day or two. The real flu STARTS with a fever and its usually a high one, along with many other symptoms. And it lasts until you get some major treatment. For instance, if you catch the flu early enough, sometimes by taking Tamiflu, you can reduce the duration and the symptoms. Unfortunately, even though I got treatment within 12 hours, it didn't help at all.

But the crud is terrible, you feel like hell, and you feel like you have pneumonia. But I am here to say - once you truly get Pneumonia, you'll know the difference - for one thing your blood oxygen plummets to down around 70% and you can hardly breath.


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## hawgrider

DerBiermeister said:


> Ok
> No doctor either, but I would love to hear from the nurses. RNprepper? Tired Nurse?
> 
> I personally don't think it is possible to get over the REAL flu in two days. But I've been wrong before...


You've never heard of the 24 hour flu?


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## DerBiermeister

hawgrider said:


> You've never heard of the 24 hour flu?


Yes -- now that you mention it. I have heard that term before -- but this is NOT to be mistaken with the flu that flu shots are made for. We used to call it "the grip". The 24 hour "flu" is really just a gastrointestinal bug that many people get. It is not even in the same family with the REAL flu -- H3N2, Swine flu, H1N1, Asian flu, Bird flu, etc.

I think we are arguing apples and oranges here. Not one of you are convinced in what I've been saying, so since I have no one to back me up, I am through trying to knock some sense into yuse guys. :lol:


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## hawgrider

DerBiermeister said:


> Yes -- now that you mention it. I have heard that term before -- but this is NOT to be mistaken with the flu that flu shots are made for. The 24 hour "flu" is really just a gastrointestinal bug that many people get. It is not even in the same family with the REAL flu.
> We used to call it "the grip".


I'm sure its not. They can't cover all the strains of flu in one vaccine. They didn't even get this year's vaccine right.


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## DerBiermeister

hawgrider said:


> I'm sure its not. They can't cover all the strains of flu in one vaccine. They didn't even get this year's vaccine right.


Well -- one more comment. They don't make a vaccine or even ANY treatment for the 24 hour bug -- the grip -- the shits -- call it whatever you want. (The flu it ain't.) Drink lots of fluids and eat saltine crackers and oh yeah -- have some of your grandma's chicken soup.


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## JJ308

DerBiermeister said:


> Yes -- now that you mention it. I have heard that term before -- but this is NOT to be mistaken with the flu that flu shots are made for. We used to call it "the grip". The 24 hour "flu" is really just a gastrointestinal bug that many people get. It is not even in the same family with the REAL flu -- H3N2, Swine flu, H1N1, Asian flu, Bird flu, etc.
> 
> I think we are arguing apples and oranges here. Not one of you are convinced in what I've been saying, so since I have no one to back me up, I am through trying to knock some sense into yuse guys. :lol:


Well then in that case, I have never had the REAL flu even without a flu shot. Bully for me! ::clapping::


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## RNprepper

thepeartree said:


> That's a good point, RNP. I think maybe we should get vaccinated for everything on the shelf as a part of prepping. I've got a good start and I'll keep going.


I've beaten this drum before. Knowing that water contamination will be a big threat post SHTF, I have strongly suggested getting fully vaccinated, including updated tetanus booster, Hepatitis A and typhoid. Hep A and typhoid transmitted via contaminated food and water. Hep will most likely not kill you.....but it will knock you down for months. Typhoid is horrible. Even with treatment, it can take a long, long time to fully recover. Without treatment, you may die. Post SHTF there will be a recurrence of measles, mumps, rubella, polio, pertussis, diptheria, tetanus, the likes of which have not been seen. An unvaccinated population will be completely vulnerable. Living for 11 years in a 3rd world country, I saw the devastation of these diseases. They are serious, highly contagious, and easily preventable by vaccination. And don't forget your Hep B. Hep B is 200-300 times more virulent than HIV. It only takes a tiny exposure to contaminated body fluids to contract Hep B, which can be fatal.

The very definition of prepping is to prepare for future calamity. Vaccinations in advance of calamity are one of the most basic forms that prepping can take. There's my soapbox.


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## Denton

The inner conspiracy theorist in me tells me to run from the needle.

The soldier in me tells me I've received countless shots for good reason.

The number of people killed by the vaccine is nothing compared to the number who have been killed by the flu.

People are counting on Denton being able to stand up and perform.


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## RNprepper

Kahlan said:


> My mother almost died from Guillain-Barre syndrome. She got sick almost a week after receiving her flu shot. She was in the hospital for a year, paralyzed from the neck down with a machine having to breathe for her. According to the CDC "On very rare occasions, they may develop GBS in the days or weeks after getting a vaccination."
> 
> Her doctors and specialists all agreed in her case that is what gave it to her. I don't know if they were right and I know the risk is probably infinitesimal but after having seen it and watch her live through it I just can't bring myself to get one. I just can't. It absolutely terrifies me. I would never tell somebody else not to get one because of what my family experienced but I can't get one myself.


Kahlan, I am so sorry about your mom. It is true that GBS can be a rare side effect. It is also true that the intense immune/inflammatory response to the actual influenza infection puts one at much higher risk for contracting GBS than the flu shot. The flu shot is actually protective against GBS, statistically. Some of the older flu shots (like your mom might have gotten) had a lot more side effects. A lot of people got very sick after vaccination with the "swine flu" shot in the 1970's. Turns out it wasn't the actual vaccine, but rather a contaminant. Anyway, I completely sympathize with your fear, and everyone has to make an individual decision. I just try to give information that might help people make a decision based on factual evidence.
Thanks for sharing your mom's experience.


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## MrsInor

Well that 1970's shot must have been what was given to us all in basic training. Two thirds of my group got sick. 

I'll go and get my shot tomorrow. I think I can get it at the pharmacy.


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## RNprepper

Arklatex said:


> Same answer as above.
> 
> I got the flu about 5 years ago. It was horrible, knocked me into bed for a solid week or more. Up to that point I never got the shot. I rarely get sick and that was an eye opener. I've gotten the shot every year since hoping I won't have to go through the flu again. The shots have never made me sick, just have a sore arm for a day or two. On the other hand my wife got one last year (from a different place) and it made her sick... At work they tell us if the shot has made you sick in the past you should not take it again.


OK, here is the scoop. There are indeed a few individuals (a very small % of the population) who can experience an adverse reaction such as joint inflammation/arthritis from the flu shot. These people should not get the shot again. The reaction will be worse each time. This is not the same as body aches and a feeling of malaise that can occur after vaccination which is simply the body's normal immune response. This is often worse the first time you get a flu shot and then not as bad with subsequent shots. This is normal - it means your body is actually responding to the vaccine to build up protective antibodies. It feels similar to when you think you might be coming down with a cold - body aches, sort of feeling off, like you just know you are about to come down with something. These are called prodromal symptoms and are a result of your body's immune response. You know how it goes - sometimes you actually fight off the cold, but sometimes you get the cold. Same feeling can occur with the flu shot - it is just activating the immune response and can give you same prodromal feeling. You CANNOT get the flu from the flu shot. You CAN get the flu after vaccination IF you were already incubating the virus. It takes about 2 weeks for the vaccine to be fully effective, so if you were already exposed to the flu, you might still get the disease.


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## MrsInor

Okay I will get the shot tomorrow and then lock myself inside the house for two weeks.


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## RNprepper

dannydefense said:


> This kind of discussion belongs in a religious section.


Yes, discussions about vaccination can take on a life of their own. EVERY time in history that new vaccines were developed, there were those who fought them tooth and nail. Conspiracy theories involving vaccines are nothing new. When New York City passed the first law requiring mandatory small pox vaccination (small pox just happens to be one of the most contagious and deadly diseases known to man), there were riots in the streets to protest mandatory vaccination. Thanks to persistent vaccination efforts, small pox is now eliminated from the global population. (Yes, it exists in labs, and this is a horrifying thought - that it could escape or be weaponized. May God in heaven help us if that ever happens.). Thanks also to polio vaccination, we don't have thousands of people lying in iron lung machines - it was only a generation ago that this was widespread.

I hope you have noticed that my posts are factual and informational. I can back up up every one of my statements with hard data and statistical evidence. I really don't care personally what someone decides for themselves or their families - except that I hope they can base those decisions on facts and not on fear or misinformation that abounds.


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## RNprepper

JJ308 said:


> I never get the flu on a regular basis, except for my younger years surrounded by other siblings, and now will get it only ever few years or so. I just deal with it when it comes and it has never really put me down for more then two days. So for me, I just don't see a need for one.
> 
> You know I'm going to get it this year now that I posted this!!


Influenza is a serious disease. It is NOT the "stomach flu," or a "cold," but rather a severe respiratory infection, typically with high fever, racking cough, and basically makes you so sick you really do want to die. It will not knock you out for a couple of days - think more like a couple of weeks. Many people who have had influenza will say it is the sickest they have ever been in their life. People who die from influenza develop pneumonia that basically fills the lungs with pus.


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## RNprepper

JJ308 said:


> No, I think I am talking about the flu. Puking, body aching, cold sweats, etc. I'm not a doctor, but I consider that the flu as oppose to runny nose, stuffy head and such, which I don't get yearly either.
> If you are asking this based on the length of time I stated, I not sure how to answer, but I will say what ever it is I get has never lasted for more then two days.


The only way to know for sure is to have a test done. There are lots of viruses that cause similar symptoms. Norovirus circulates through communities during the flu season, and typically has severe vomiting/diarrhea, and fever, but passes in about 24-48 hours. It may well be you are getting Norovirus or something similar. If you are indeed one of the fortunate individuals who can fight off influenza in just a couple of days, let me remind you that while you are incubating the virus (before your even know you have it), you are highly contagious and can spread it to others. Influenza B strains are a bit milder than the A strains and it could be that you are contracting those less virulent strains. However, if you are getting the actual flu (or Norovirus) that often, I have to question your preventative measures such as hand hygiene and avoidance of touching your face with unwashed hands.


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## BlackDog

RNprepper said:


> I've beaten this drum before. Knowing that water contamination will be a big threat post SHTF, I have strongly suggested getting fully vaccinated, including updated tetanus booster, Hepatitis A and typhoid. Hep A and typhoid transmitted via contaminated food and water. Hep will most likely not kill you.....but it will knock you down for months. Typhoid is horrible. Even with treatment, it can take a long, long time to fully recover. Without treatment, you may die. Post SHTF there will be a recurrence of measles, mumps, rubella, polio, pertussis, diptheria, tetanus, the likes of which have not been seen. An unvaccinated population will be completely vulnerable. Living for 11 years in a 3rd world country, I saw the devastation of these diseases. They are serious, highly contagious, and easily preventable by vaccination. And don't forget your Hep B. Hep B is 200-300 times more virulent than HIV. It only takes a tiny exposure to contaminated body fluids to contract Hep B, which can be fatal.
> 
> The very definition of prepping is to prepare for future calamity. Vaccinations in advance of calamity are one of the most basic forms that prepping can take. There's my soapbox.


Would you happen to have an idea what a full round of vaccinations would cost for an uninsured person? I haven't been to a doctor for 10 years so I know I'm overdue for at least a tetanus shot.


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## RNprepper

hawgrider said:


> You've never heard of the 24 hour flu?


That is not influenza. If you mean 24 hours of vomiting and diarrhea, it is most likely a bacterial infection from contaminated food (ie "food poisoning") or something like Norovirus which also causes vomiting/diarrhea and is pretty short lived. Squirting from the backside into the toilet while you puke into the sink is one of the most awful things to experience, but it is not influenza.


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## RNprepper

DerBiermeister said:


> I am 71 years old and had my FIRST case of flu last March. It quickly turned into pneumonia. For my whole life, I have had terrible episodes of the CRUD, that last anywhere from two weeks to a month, depending on how bad the resulting bronchitis lasts. The way I know it was never the flu, is because I never run much of a fever. Some years no fever, other years just a minor fever for a day or two. The real flu STARTS with a fever and its usually a high one, along with many other symptoms. And it lasts until you get some major treatment. For instance, if you catch the flu early enough, sometimes by taking Tamiflu, you can reduce the duration and the symptoms. Unfortunately, even though I got treatment within 12 hours, it didn't help at all.
> 
> But the crud is terrible, you feel like hell, and you feel like you have pneumonia. But I am here to say - once you truly get Pneumonia, you'll know the difference - for one thing your blood oxygen plummets to down around 70% and you can hardly breath.


And when it gets worse, you go to the ER. Then they hospitalize you when your O2 saturation won't come up. Then you get put on a ventilator when you can't breathe on your own with enough effectiveness to keep your O2 sat up. As your lungs fill with pus and take on a consistency like jello, even the ventilator can't breathe for you, as there is not air space left in your lungs. Then you die. Seen it. Not pretty. You are right, DB, nothing quite like it.


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## RNprepper

hawgrider said:


> I'm sure its not. They can't cover all the strains of flu in one vaccine. They didn't even get this year's vaccine right.


The annual flu shot is a Trivalent vaccine, meaning that it contains 3 different strains, usually 2 strains of influenza A, and 1 strain of B. There are a LOT of different flu strains, and most of our flu bugs originate in Asia where pigs, chickens and humans live in close proximity. The viruses can jump from host to host, co-mingle, exchange DNA, and mutate into new strains that infect humans. Frontline researchers are continually monitoring for the development of new strains that seems to be the most likely ones to spread globally. Based on their findings in each given year, a trivalent vaccine is developed. However, this process takes many months and by the time the vaccine comes to the public, the flu viruses might have mutated yet again or new ones might have popped up. This is why the vaccine can be very effective in some years and less effective in others. At best it is a highly educated guessing game as to which strains will be prevalent and virulent.


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## RNprepper

BlackDog said:


> Would you happen to have an idea what a full round of vaccinations would cost for an uninsured person? I haven't been to a doctor for 10 years so I know I'm overdue for at least a tetanus shot.


Start with your public health department and ask for prices. Compare with WalMart, CVS, Walgreens. Also look up travel immunization clinics.

Try to track down any immunization records you have from your childhood or history of known diseases. You can look up the adult vaccination schedule on Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Chances are you've already had MMR, polio. Tetanus booster needed every 10 years at the longest. (Tdap - tetanus, diptheria, pertussis) is the one to get and then Td after that. Hep B and Hep A are combined in 1 shot called Twinrix. It takes 3 Hep B and 2 Hep A for immunity, so the typical schedule is Twinrix at month 0, Hep B at month 1, and Twinrix at month 5. Typhoid is best in oral form which lasts 5 years. The cheapest way for that is to get a prescription and have it filled at WalMart or Costco. If anyone questions the prescription, just say you are considering a trip to south America (or just about anywhere else) and want to be protected.

It will take you at _least_ 6 months to get fully vaccinated. You can set up a schedule to spread out the costs, but be sure to follow up at the right times so you get the best immunity. Good luck. Personally, I know there are going to be so many issues and stressors to deal with post SHTF, and I don't want preventable diseases to be any where in that mix.


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## RNprepper

If anyone is coming on board with this discussion, please take the time to read through the entire thread. It has been a fairly comprehensive discussion and a lot of information has been given about influenza, other "flu" like illnesses, the flu shot, and vaccinations in general. You may find that a lot of questions will have been answered, as well as a good spread of opinions expressed on the whole concept of flu shots.


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## DerBiermeister

RNprepper said:


> Influenza is a serious disease. It is NOT the "stomach flu," or a "cold," but rather a severe respiratory infection, typically with high fever, racking cough, and basically makes you so sick you really do want to die. It will not knock you out for a couple of days - think more like a couple of weeks. Many people who have had influenza will say it is the sickest they have ever been in their life. People who die from influenza develop pneumonia that basically fills the lungs with pus.


Thank you --- this is what I have been saying here for a couple of days, but without credentials to back it up. I wasn't making much headway.


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## thepeartree

RNprepper said:


> I've beaten this drum before. Knowing that water contamination will be a big threat post SHTF, I have strongly suggested getting fully vaccinated, including updated tetanus booster, Hepatitis A and typhoid. Hep A and typhoid transmitted via contaminated food and water. Hep will most likely not kill you.....but it will knock you down for months. Typhoid is horrible. Even with treatment, it can take a long, long time to fully recover. Without treatment, you may die. Post SHTF there will be a recurrence of measles, mumps, rubella, polio, pertussis, diptheria, tetanus, the likes of which have not been seen. An unvaccinated population will be completely vulnerable. Living for 11 years in a 3rd world country, I saw the devastation of these diseases. They are serious, highly contagious, and easily preventable by vaccination. And don't forget your Hep B. Hep B is 200-300 times more virulent than HIV. It only takes a tiny exposure to contaminated body fluids to contract Hep B, which can be fatal.
> 
> The very definition of prepping is to prepare for future calamity. Vaccinations in advance of calamity are one of the most basic forms that prepping can take. There's my soapbox.


Don't forget malaria vaccine. It may have been pretty much eradicated here, but as one of the latest ebola candidates proves, it's a killer most other places in the world and is nowhere near gone.


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## RNprepper

Think of it this way: There is a stealthy global enemy guaranteed to wipe out tens of thousands of people on U.S. soil this year, in just a matter of months. It's name is IFZA (alias: Influenza). Fortunately, there is a defensive weapon more powerful than a locomotive and faster than a speeding bullet (which is useless against this enemy). It's is fired with a single shot (vaccination). 

When SHTF, you need to be at the top of your game. My gut (no fact here - just intuition) tells me that SHTF will happen in winter, coincidentally at the height of flu season. All the rifles, scopes, and ammo in the world will be useless if you are on the ground hacking up a lung with 105 fever (or caring for a loved one that is that ill.) The whole concept of vaccination is about prepping for an enemy before it can strike you first. OK, I am done.


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## RNprepper

thepeartree said:


> Don't forget malaria vaccine. It may have been pretty much eradicated here, but as one of the latest ebola candidates proves, it's a killer most other places in the world and is nowhere near gone.


Malaria is not caused by a virus, but by mosquito borne parasites (4 species) that attack red blood cells, causing them to rupture. It causes profound anemia, enlarged spleens (that can rupture on impact), or the most serious and fatal consequences in which the capillary beds of the kidneys and brain are affected (black water fever and cerebral malaria). Encephalitis from malaria can kill very quickly. Malaria was the #1 global killer for many years, just recently being bumped by Tuberculosis. Medication resistance is a huge issue for both diseases. There has been efforts on many fronts to combat malaria and to develop a vaccine. Those efforts have been directed at interrupting the life cycle of the parasite at different stages. It has not been easy and is a much more complicated process than developing a vaccine against a virus like influenza. There have been vaccination trials of different kinds, with varying success. It will be another whole challenge to get at-risk populations vaccinated. _*Malaria vaccination is not something you can ask for at your local public health department. *_I've had malaria 4 times, and my son almost died from cerebral malaria when he was young. I've also cared for many patients with malaria, typhoid, and Dengue fever, and I can tell you without a doubt that I would rather have malaria than typhoid or Dengue. There IS a vaccine for typhoid, however. If you are serious about the risk of water contamination, get it. My family gets the oral vaccine every 5 years. As we often travel to high risk areas, we absolutely keep up on it, but I am very glad for the extra insurance it provides for any future risks in the U.S.


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