# Making Masa Harina With Wood Ash



## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

I like the idea of growing dent corn because it stores well and I do love Mexican food. I never knew anything about it until I started to read about it recently. Apparently you can't just grind up dry corn to make flour, you have to soak it lye, wood ash or lime. I am curious if any of you have used this method of making harina using wood ash? As I've learned, lye is pretty harsh and burns the skin so I pause when I think about eating food soaked in ash (which I guess is pretty much lye after it soaks in water). Anyone have experience with this?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Your hominy grits are processed in this way, aids digestion of the corn.
Some Nordic fishes are also done in this manner it think it is called lutefisk.
If done right it is quite safe and not hard to do, my grandparents did it, but I don't like fish save haddock.
I do believe that today it is done commercially with sodium hydroxide for the corn.
Look it up and give it a try, good for SHTF when only animal feed is available.
I have 100 pounds of dent stored for growing, also have a 100 pound bag of sodium hydroxide for processing the growth if needed.
Works best when corn is cracked or granulated.
If using ash, it needs to be concentrated to float an egg to be effective.
This has to be wood ash, burned and recovered without contamination from other ash..


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## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Your hominy grits are processed in this way, aids digestion of the corn.
> Some Nordic fishes are also done in this manner it think it is called lutefisk.
> If done right it is quite safe and not hard to do, my grandparents did it, but I don't like fish save haddock.
> I do believe that today it is done commercially with sodium hydroxide for the corn.
> ...


SOCOM thanks for the reply. You mention concentrated to float an egg. This is the exact same advice for creating lye for lye soap right? So in other words, just create lye water from ashes and use for corn and other purposes as well?

Below is a recipe I found on the internet which involves wood ash. According to the source, it comes from a book called Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz. Can you or anyone comment on how effective this may or may not be?

Nixtamalized Corn:
2 cups whole grain corn
water
1/2 cup wood ash

1. Soak the corn in water for 12 to 24 hours.

2. Strain and transfer the soaked corn to a pressure cooker or other large cooking pot.

3. Add about 8 cups/2 liters of water to the pot; add wood ash (only from real wood, no particleboard/plywood/glued-together products or pressure -treated lumber). I'ts important to sift the ash as large chunks are difficult to rinse out.

4. Bring mixture to a boil. Pressure cook about an hour, or boil for about 3 hours, stirring periodically.

5. To test for doneness, rub a kernel of corn between your fingers to see if the skin is loose. If so, remove from heat; if not, continue cooking.

6. Rinse the corn, kneading and rubbing it to loosen and remove skins. Rinse until the water is clear.

7. Cook with the whole posole; it's great in chili, polenta, soups, and stews; grind it into a dough for tortillas or tamales; or ferment it as follows (Gv-No-He-Nv, Cherokee Sour Corn Drink), or as Chicha, an Andean chewed-corn beer.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

BLG,
Can reply to you first question, yes same applies.
However, when processing the corn, the 24 hour soak in solution is good.
Me, I would rinse it out for another 12 hours replacing the water at least twice in the process.
When in doubt, soak and rinse again.
I, personally would not use ash direct, just clear solution made from the ash.
You screw this process up and it can kill you in a gruesome way.


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## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> You screw this process up and it can kill you in a gruesome way.


Yes this is my main concern. Do you know where I might could learn more about this to ensure that I do this right? Maybe there's a book on it or something?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

BLG said:


> Yes this is my main concern. Do you know where I might could learn more about this to ensure that I do this right? Maybe there's a book on it or something?


Sorry, none that I know of. Look up hominy processing and see what that turns up.
The FDA might have some guidelines.
I only know what I was taught 5 decades ago, Will not subject anyone to my mistakes in memory.

The processed corn is great for making polenta and tortilla's as suggested in post #3 , easier digesting it if you eat too much of it.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Forgive my ignorance, but are we talking about dried corn kernels, like those sold in feed lots?
If so, I'd never considered them as a potential source for human sustenance.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but are we talking about dried corn kernels, like those sold in feed lots?
> If so, I'd never considered them as a potential source for human sustenance.


I am no farmer, so I may be wrong on all points.
What we are talking about is "dent corn", it differs little from the whole kernel type you would buy canned and whole. 
It has a dent in the crown or top of the kernel.
Yes it is used as feed corn and is somewhat tougher than your butter /sugar strains.
What is not commonly known is that most processed foods containing corn use the dent variety.
It is the most common and the cheapest strain out there.
The process we are discussing here is to make it more palatable and digestible similar to the type you would purchase in the market like golden corn.

Dent is considered an industrial corn, it is also the strain used to generate ethanol.
Regardless of its designation, it is consumable by humans, and is the most eaten kind.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Well, looks like I just found a purpose for my 1 remaining 15 gallon barrel.
Is there anything to watch for when buying in bulk?
As an example, I know seed wheat is different from feed wheat, so you have to watch for chemical contamination in that
Is feed corn for deer any different than the "industrial" stuff used to make human food?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

kauboy said:


> well, looks like i just found a purpose for my 1 remaining 15 gallon barrel.
> Is there anything to watch for when buying in bulk?
> As an example, i know seed wheat is different from feed wheat, so you have to watch for chemical contamination in that
> is feed corn for deer any different than the "industrial" stuff used to make human food?


i know nothing about deer feed, it is illegal to feed them here just like using salt blocks.
Industrial is the same as cattle corn here, and that is what i buy for like $11.00 a bag.
What you need is the white dent corn not the yellow, however in a SHTF the yellow will due the job of survival.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

It is my understanding that those natives that grew corn dried it, removed the kernels, and ground it with white wood ash in water until it turned "blue". The color change was due to the conversion process with the lye. It made the corn completely digestible and a "super food". I don't have anything as evidence and am relying on my sometimes faulty memory here.
If anyone has more on this, I would love to be corrected and informed.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> i know nothing about deer feed, it is illegal to feed them here just like using salt blocks.
> Industrial is the same as cattle corn here, and that is what i buy for like $11.00 a bag.
> What you need is the white dent corn not the yellow, however in a SHTF the yellow will due the job of survival.


The deer variety may be different, but I'll keep an eye out. We have a feed lot around here that specifically sells cow feed. I may pop in and ask around.
Thanks for the info.


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## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but are we talking about dried corn kernels, like those sold in feed lots?
> If so, I'd never considered them as a potential source for human sustenance.


I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, dent corn is used to make masa harina which is corn flour which makes tamales, taco shells, torilla chips etc. I'm not really sure if deer corn is the same or not. Probably it is though.

I actually did manage to find some info on this. Below is a link to a video:


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## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> You screw this process up and it can kill you in a gruesome way.


Just to clarify, when you say this are you referring to mishandling lye or the actual ingestion of the food? I talked to a couple other people who are doing this and they didn't express the same concern but of course not everyone thinks before they act so I prefer to be more cautious. But i just want to confirm what you main concern here is.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I'm fairly certain he means it can kill you if you do any part of the process wrong enough.
Mishandling lye, or the sodium hydroxide he stores, will lead to sever skin damage. This stuff eats organic matter.
That's why it works to loosen and remove the hard outer shell of a corn kernel(non-digestible cellulose).
Now, imagine cooking with it...
If done wrong, and swallowed, there is nothing to stop it from destroying your insides.


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## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

I posted about this over on the permies forum and someone responded with the text shown below. Can anyone either confirm or refute this?

_My collaborator was taught by a traditional Mohawk Indian. She uses 1:1 Ash:corn. With ashes fresh from the stove he uses 1:2 and says that seems too strong. Cooking times are heavily dependent on the variety of corn.

After I've rinsed the corn briefly in a colander I haven't noticed the skin on my hands drying out from handling fresh hominy.

Bases are neutralized by acids... Hominy is often served in a tomato/vinegar based soup which would neutralize any residual base. The stomach is acidic, which would also neutralize any residual base, and thus protect the stomach and intestines from being eaten away... Not so much for the throat!!! NO TASTING THE COOKING WATER... The key to safety is to rinse the hominy well before eating...

Dried masa harina or hominy is not of concern, because any residual hydroxide in it absorbs carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and thus becomes inert. _


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I cant see why a person would go to the trouble to make this stuff. Cornbread or mush made from good yellow corn is about the healthiest food a person can eat and it do not need any lye. White corn killed my Grandma with a nasty old disease called Pallegra. Actually it was the lack of niacin in the white corn meal which did the trick. Back in them days in her neck of the woods..folks thought yellow corn was animal food and white corn was human food. The moral is dont use white corn meal. 
Corn


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## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> I cant see why a person would go to the trouble to make this stuff. Cornbread or mush made from good yellow corn is about the healthiest food a person can eat and it do not need any lye. White corn killed my Grandma with a nasty old disease called Pallegra. Actually it was the lack of niacin in the white corn meal which did the trick. Back in them days in her neck of the woods..folks thought yellow corn was animal food and white corn was human food. The moral is dont use white corn meal.
> Corn


It's cool that you mention Pallegra (definitely not cool what happened to your grandma though) because this process of nixtamalization is what turns dent corn from a food that you cannot survive with into a food that you can survive with.

From my readings, when the Europeans came here and discovered corn, they took the corn back to Europe but not the nixtamalization technology. According to history, many of the Europeans who became dependent on corn died during winter due to the lack of nutrients. The nixtamalization process enriches the corn with many trace minerals which makes it, as PaulS put it, a "superfood". That's mostly why I'm interested in this process. But perhaps equally important I love Mexican food and would survive a lot happier if I had it during a SHTF situation and corn grows better here than many other comparable staples. What's more, I believe dent corn stores much better than sweet corn, but I have no experience storing either so it's just what I read.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I read that. Whatever nutrients the white corn lacks..(which seems to be Vitamin B-3 in addition to the above mentioned trace elements perhaps?) the lye helps it cough up some. Must also help digestion some since so many folks have mentioned that angle. Reckon it would help yellow corn to get nixtalized? Your playing my song on the Mexican Food. Not sure how a person could live without that. Not to mention cute Senoritas and Tequilla..lol.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

blg said:


> just to clarify, when you say this are you referring to mishandling lye or the actual ingestion of the food? I talked to a couple other people who are doing this and they didn't express the same concern but of course not everyone thinks before they act so i prefer to be more cautious. But i just want to confirm what you main concern here is.


Both cases, I work with lye quite often(gun bluing). 
Get some on you and let it sit for a bit, you will have a nice chemical burn.
What do you think will happen to your GI tract?
This is the same stuff that is the active ingredient in Draino.
Take some hair clipping and put them into solution, see how long it takes to disolve at room temp.
Drop some lead into the solution, you will have a perfect example of an extothermic reaction.

Anyone that is not concerned with its potential is an idiot.

All processed fish from scandinavia is checked for traces plenty by different agencies before export.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Even in small quantities lye, ingested, can cause a heart attack - it changes the electrolyte level so quickly that The heart can't cope. 

I'm not talking about trace amounts of lye in foods but a teaspoon of drain cleaner can do the trick in seconds.


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## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

Can someone tell me the main difference between lye made using wood ashes and food grade lye used to make breads such as pretzels?


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

I did not know there was one? Such small amounts used and neutralized?


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## BLG (Jan 5, 2014)

I found this link to buy food grade potassium hydroxide - the type of lye which is created from wood ash. It is advertised as "food grade"

1 lb. Potassium Hydroxide Flakes KOH - FREE SHIPPING - 4 x 4 oz. Bottles: Essential Depot

It is my understanding that most store bought food which is cooked using lye uses sodium hydroxide rather than potassium hydroxide. One source says because it is more cost effective to create sodium hydroxide. But nevertheless I am finding that it is found in quite a lot of food.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Yeah if you are buying go Chem co. - don't use anything with additives of any kind :0


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