# Pond Construction



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I am considering building a pond. The obvious advantages are food (fish), water source (consumption, agriculture). I am in a 5b growing zone so minus 15F is not unheard of. I have a tiny stream and well but I want to have a reserve as well as a food source I control. Depth and total surface area are considerations. Blue gill Is what I would figure on, not so sure I could keep the water cool enough for trout. I plan on suplimenting food for four people and possible irrigation durin a typical July to September dry spell. Irrigation would be for a modest garden. Prep work, permitting, costs and other considerations from your experiences would be helpful. Curious as to what suggestions you all have.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

How deep you planning to go? We have some pond/small lakes around here that are about 8 ft. deep that hold trout year round. You won't see them until the water cools down but they somehow manage to go deep and stay cool enough.

Good luck with your pond. Always been a dream of mine. Please post updates if you end up doing the project.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Depth is one of the factors I have to decide on. I would think depths varrying 3 to 10 feet and getting over half to three quarters of an acre would work but I am guessing. I am planing on limited weed beds and gravel for spawning. I am just unsure of how much or little I would require. Underwater structure is another issue.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

You maybe eligible for a break on your house insurance as well. It may be worth hooking it up to a exterior fire suppression system as well. They aren't very expensive.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

I think ponds are one of the supreme preps, for the reasons you mention. No permits required for ponds around here. I'd go as big as you possibly can & deeper than you would think. Built mine a few years ago & it is about an acre with the deepest around 10-12 feet & tapers to around 2-3 feet on the far banks. Average depth would generally run 5' or so. For the fish, I had the track hoe take down 4 or so nice size trees & stack up the trunks & limbs in several piles. Also had him dig a whole bunch of holes in the bottom & then pile that dirt up next to each hole. Bottom of the pond looked like a lunar landscape with all the hills & holes. As he tapered the pond, about half way across, be made sure to build a ledge running the length of the pond, so that there was not a continual, smooth climb from the deep end to the shallow end. Lots of fish congregate on such ledges, where there is an abrupt change in depth.

I'd check with your local farm supply & see if & when they have the local fish truck come by for folks to stock their ponds. One visits our local farm supply a couple of times a year. Contact that company & they will suggest species & quantities for your area & for the size of your pond. I stocked hybrid bream, fathead minnows & channel catfish. Blue gill are tasty & fun to catch but not the best for a food source for hungry folks. I'd look into something like catfish, that with feeding, can get to 4-5 lbs in a few years. I'd be careful about adding game fish, like bass, as they can take over a small pond & decimate your food source.





































Starting to fill up. If you note, had them use some of the dirt they dug out to make a shooting berm... a big one.










Video from on top of the shooting berm.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Lot of ponds or tanks up where we used to live. Deep sandy land. Some of the farmers trying to irrigate would dig a pond and hook a windmill up to the well to keep it full then irrigate from the pond as opposed to direct from the well. Some of them had the problem of the pond not being able to hold water. They put some stuff called Bentonite..aka drilling mud...down as a liner. 
Bentonite Clay 50lb. bag | Farmers Association


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Well done *******. Now enjoy!


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

As a prepper wanting to use your pond as a food resource, these two pics might help. Pond was stocked in March, 2014.










This picture is of my neighbors who caught these from my pond in July of 2016. So they went from tiny fingerlings to 5 pounders in a bit over 2 years. As a prepper it is a nice feeling to know I have many hundreds of pounds of fresh meat always available. Plus with proper management, it is a self sustainable resource.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Make sure to talk to the township or county zoning before getting to far along. If you do something like that without the permits in my area your going to be in big do do.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Aeration & water circulation can be critical to the health of the fish & can keep a pond from turning over, which can result in a massive fish kill. I have the compressor in the tack room & ran pvc pipe out to the pond, where I split it into two runs for two sets of Vertex two head airstations.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Aeration would be a consideration but being further north I may have better oxygenation with cooler water. that however is not a given. I will have to check with the county about weather or not I need a permit(s)at some point. 

Those are some nice catfish *******. I think what you did is close to what I am thinking. Did you do any soil testing prior to or after excavating to determine if your pond would retain water? Did you hire someone to do the excavating?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

You must also consider that in many case you will forfeit the right to a lot of your property. In many cases EPA/DNR claim authority over the land 300 feet from the historic high of any body of water. And they keep trying to increase that. Once installed even if you built it it becomes wetland and subject to their control for ever. In some cases if birds move in you could even lose the right to use it.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Smitty901 said:


> You must also consider that in many case you will forfeit the right to a lot of your property. In many cases EPA/DNR claim authority over the land 300 feet from the historic high of any body of water. And they keep trying to increase that. Once installed even if you built it it becomes wetland and subject to their control for ever. In some cases if birds move in you could even lose the right to use it.


Not in Mississippi. But here we are talking about either just digging a big hole in the ground, like I did, or just damming up the end of some ravine... not some flowing body of water. These farm ponds are everywhere around here & used mainly for a water source for cattle and personal enjoyment. No permit is required unless your pond holds over 25 acre feet of water. Down here the government actually provides assistance in building & maintaining ponds & provides funds for some folks to build their ponds. Part of some flood/erosion control program, I think. When I first moved down here, they came out & surveyed several locations for me. I didn't end up using them as I didn't want to build a dam on my two ravines/ditches down the sides of the property. I wanted it down in the bottom pasture for aesthetic reasons.

So maybe in some locations the government is something to fear but not down here in God's country. These agents are just regular folks like you & me, who are here to help & serve.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Camel923 said:


> Aeration would be a consideration but being further north I may have better oxygenation with cooler water. that however is not a given. I will have to check with the county about weather or not I need a permit(s)at some point.
> 
> Those are some nice catfish *******. I think what you did is close to what I am thinking. Did you do any soil testing prior to or after excavating to determine if your pond would retain water? Did you hire someone to do the excavating?


My understanding is aeration & forcing water circulation is good for any small body of water... one that doesn't have a natural inflow & outflow. This is especially true on these smaller ponds, like you are talking about because the pond is usually relatively shallow & a temperature inversion is more likely. My understanding is without aeration & circulation, the water at the bottom has very little oxygen & becomes toxic over time with the decay of organic matter. So on a hot summer day, when the water at the bottom is cool & the water on the surface is warm, a thundershower can cause the pond to turn. The cool rainwater hits the surface, changing its temperature to cooler than the water at the bottom... and the pond turns. This brings the low oxygen water, and the toxins, up to where the fish are staying, and causes the kill. One of my employee's ponds turned last summer and he lost most of his fish.

But regardless if your pond would turn or not, having good circulation & forced aeration is a good thing and very healthy for the pond & its inhabitants. This is especially true if you plan on an artificially high population of fish by feeding them. One simple fact is moving water is healthier than still water. The aeration is especially important at night, because the plant life & algae are no longer releasing oxygen into the water. To give an example of how those airstations can circulate the water, I noticed something last summer. During a rather heavy algae bloom, I noticed the surface of my pond looked like a satellite picture of a hurricane. You could see the swirls & bands of algae on the surface, spiraling around the columns of bubbles rising from the airstations. So that proved the images I've seen where this bottom aeration causes not only a vertical circulation of the water but also stirs the water horizontally.

If you think about it, proper aeration & circulation actually makes your pond bigger, at least in regards to how many fish it can hold. Without it, large amounts of your pond become too toxic for the fish. With it, the entire pond becomes a healthy habitat. Now if your primary purpose is just to have extra water, then of course this is not necessary. It also isn't necessary if you want just a few fish for recreation. But, if you look at this thru the eyes of a prepper and one who will feed the fish to greatly increase meat production (and recreation) then it becomes critical.



















My neighbor is in the dirt business (and cattle) and he originally did all the dirt work for the house & our property. I had him build this pond. That bottom is rather sandy & I was a bit concerned about it holding water but he explained it really doesn't take all that much clay to hold water. He digs these all the time so I trusted his judgement. Only test we did was to initially have him take the track hoe & dig a deep hole down there. Found out there was a nice layer of dry white clay (can see it in the pic with the dirt piles next to the holes) about 5 feet down & then under that was a layer of wet clay, that feels just like silly putty. But even then, it can take a pond years to properly seal up.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

******* said:


> My understanding is aeration & forcing water circulation is good for any small body of water... one that doesn't have a natural inflow & outflow. This is especially true on these smaller ponds, like you are talking about because the pond is usually relatively shallow & a temperature inversion is more likely. My understanding is without aeration & circulation, the water at the bottom has very little oxygen & becomes toxic over time with the decay of organic matter. So on a hot summer day, when the water at the bottom is cool & the water on the surface is warm, a thundershower can cause the pond to turn. The cool rainwater hits the surface, changing its temperature to cooler than the water at the bottom... and the pond turns. This brings the low oxygen water, and the toxins, up to where the fish are staying, and causes the kill. One of my employee's ponds turned last summer and he lost most of his fish.
> 
> But regardless if your pond would turn or not, having good circulation & forced aeration is a good thing and very healthy for the pond & its inhabitants. This is especially true if you plan on an artificially high population of fish by feeding them. One simple fact is moving water is healthier than still water. The aeration is especially important at night, because the plant life & algae are no longer releasing oxygen into the water. To give an example of how those airstations can circulate the water, I noticed something last summer. During a rather heavy algae bloom, I noticed the surface of my pond looked like a satellite picture of a hurricane. You could see the swirls & bands of algae on the surface, spiraling around the columns of bubbles rising from the airstations. SO that proved the images I've seen where this bottom aeration causes not only a vertical circulation of the water but also stirs the water horizontally.
> 
> ...


Glad you know this subject well. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Federal EPA over rules all state regulation once you end up in a fight with them you will understand. Even if you get away with it now they can and do come around latter and take control of any body of water.
They have already proven they can do it even if it does not hold water all year. In some cases they have done so under a rule that says standing water one day in a year.
Just beware that you are opening a can of worms if you do it.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Smitty901 said:


> Federal EPA over rules all state regulation once you end up in a fight with them you will understand. Even if you get away with it now they can and do come around latter and take control of any body of water.
> They have already proven they can do it even if it does not hold water all year. In some cases they have done so under a rule that says standing water one day in a year.
> Just beware that you are opening a can of worms if you do it.


You understand the discussion here is small farm ponds? The OP states less than an acre. You really think the EPA is gonna take over my hole in the ground in my bottom pasture? So you really believe the EPA gets involved with the millions of simple, little farm ponds? Most subdivisions around here have either large lakes or small ponds in many yards. I had a 1/2 acre pond at my last house in town & never had EPA black helicopters scouting us out. Hell, I've got a tin foil hat too but don't wear it while fishing.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

******* said:


> You understand the discussion here is small farm ponds? The OP states less than an acre. You really think the EPA is gonna take over my hole in the ground in my bottom pasture? So you really believe the EPA gets involved with the millions of simple, little farm ponds? Most subdivisions around here have either large lakes or small ponds in many yards. I had a 1/2 acre pond at my last house in town & never had EPA black helicopters scouting us out. Hell, I've got a tin foil hat too but don't wear it while fishing.


 Yes I do and the EPA can and has take authority over what some would call a mud puddle. Few back they went after a family over a small ditch. Not about tin foil it is about what they have done . Maybe no you yet but they have and will.
They have been stopped for now but they treid to take control over property because rain water ran off on it.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Feels like we just got a few free semester hours of pond maintenance and construction..fish husbandry etc.,. around here. Old game Warden pal who managed hundreds of farm ponds up on a big Ranch was aways glad to see green eared sun fish..cause he say they are good food for the hawggy bass and channel cat. The red eared models is a pest. He also reinterated the notion that unless well managed a farm pond heads rapidly down in after about five years. They run out of groceries and get stunted. When that happened he had a boat with a Honda generator so he shock em up and put the good ones in a live trap on the lake.. Then after a time or two he would rotenon it and kill em all. Starting over with the good fished he had saved and adding a few etc. Fact would be good for you to meet that young man. He knows more about Gods Critters than do most wildlife biologists.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Smitty901 said:


> Yes I do and the EPA can and has take authority over what some would call a mud puddle. Few back they went after a family over a small ditch. Not about tin foil it is about what they have done . Maybe no you yet but they have and will.
> They have been stopped for now but they treid to take control over property because rain water ran off on it.


So then you suggest the OP not construct a tiny pond because of your fear of the government? My experience has been that if your actions don't impact someone else's property, then you have nothing to worry about. But if, for example, you dam up a stream, that causes a wetland to dry up or causes a neighbor hardship, then that is when you might have to worry. But normally, even damming up a small stream is good for the environment... no different than natural beaver ponds. That only stops the flow for a short time until the pond fills & after that, the normal flow continues and actually is more stable during dry periods. Stop the flow and then you might have a neighbor contacting authorities. But that is rare, at least around here. We don't have many natural streams... just ditches & ravines that funnel water during storm runoff. Those make great, cheap ponds and have no impact on anyone.

Once again, we are talking small farm ponds... not huge lakes.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

bigwheel said:


> Feels like we just got a few free semester hours of pond maintenance and construction..fish husbandry etc.,. around here. Old game Warden pal who managed hundreds of farm ponds up on a big Ranch was aways glad to see green eared sun fish..cause he say they are good food for the hawggy bass and channel cat. The red eared models is a pest. He also reinterated the notion that unless well managed a farm pond heads rapidly down in after about five years. They run out of groceries and get stunted. When that happened he had a boat with a Honda generator so he shock em up and put the good ones in a live trap on the lake.. Then after a time or two he would rotenon it and kill em all. Starting over with the good fished he had saved and adding a few etc. Fact would be good for you to meet that young man. He knows more about Gods Critters than do most wildlife biologists.


It is imperative you maintain the wildlife balance in any body of water but especially small ponds. Nothing will throw it off quicker than too many predators & not enough food for them. That is why we stock plenty of fathead minnows. Even the larger catfish go after them & actually I catch most of my big cats on bass lures. The fish hatchery truck will be at my farm supply this week & I will add more minnows to my pond. That is one reason I allow neighbors to fish is to keep the population under control & to monitor game fish... bass in my case.

Even though I didn't stock any game fish, my pond has bass in it. My understanding is that the wading birds can bring the eggs in from another pond or lake. I do have some really big blue heron on my pond most every day. Some folks around here will shoot them but I consider them part of nature & love to watch them. Found out they can swim around like a duck or goose when one decided to hop in in the midst of my fish being fed. I also understand hawks & eagles can drop the fish as they fly between the water & their nest. We have plenty of hawks & the occasional bald eagle.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

******* said:


> So then you suggest the OP not construct a tiny pond because of your fear of the government? My experience has been that if your actions don't impact someone else's property, then you have nothing to worry about. But if, for example, you dam up a stream, that causes a wetland to dry up or causes a neighbor hardship, then that is when you might have to worry. But normally, even damming up a small stream is good for the environment... no different than natural beaver ponds. That only stops the flow for a short time until the pond fills & after that, the normal flow continues and actually is more stable during dry periods. Stop the flow and then you might have a neighbor contacting authorities. But that is rare, at least around here. We don't have many natural streams... just ditches & ravines that funnel water during storm runoff. Those make great, cheap ponds and have no impact on anyone.
> 
> Once again, we are talking small farm ponds... not huge lakes.


Never said not to do it . I said beware. I had a run in with the EPA, Army corp of ENG and State DNR. It went on for 3 years. The state put the ditches in in 1951, I had a permit to clean them issued by the state . Then they came after me with the same regulation they can use against any water. They went so far as to try and fine me for the ditches being put by the state 51 years earlier. We won after 3 years and one heck of a fight. Had we not had the resources to fight them we would have lost the land. Normally no one would have even cared or known about it. But some tree hugger got upset and made a phone call. They must have known who to call because it was on.
One thing that helped us the hearing was we had the easement the State took when they built the highway showing they put the ditches in. But even with that The administrative judges ruled it was meaningless. The EPA had the right to take control of any water any where at any time. They have lost a few case in the last few years but only after long court fights. One I know of went to the Supreme court.
What you get away with where you live and what can happen are often two different things. At one time you could do pretty much anything you wanted to your land.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Smitty901 said:


> Never said not to do it . I said beware. I had a run in with the EPA, Army corp of ENG and State DNR. It went on for 3 years. The state put the ditches in in 1951, I had a permit to clean them issued by the state . Then they came after me with the same regulation they can use against any water. They went so far as to try and fine me for the ditches being put by the state 51 years earlier. We won after 3 years and one heck of a fight. Had we not had the resources to fight them we would have lost the land. Normally no one would have even cared or known about it. But some tree hugger got upset and made a phone call. They must have known who to call because it was on.
> One thing that helped us the hearing was we had the easement the State took when they built the highway showing they put the ditches in. But even with that The administrative judges ruled it was meaningless. The EPA had the right to take control of any water any where at any time. They have lost a few case in the last few years but only after long court fights. One I know of went to the Supreme court.
> What you get away with where you live and what can happen are often two different things. At one time you could do pretty much anything you wanted to your land.


But none of that has anything to do with a normal land owner putting in a small farm pond in his pasture. And sounds like in your case, you pissed off some neighbor by your actions. Once again, I'm talking small holes in the ground or small ditches damned up, that impact no one else. These farm ponds are great for the environment & the wildlife. That is why our government folks help us put them in... not fight us.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

******* said:


> But none of that has anything to do with a normal land owner putting in a small farm pond in his pasture. And sounds like in your case, you pissed off some neighbor by your actions. Once again, I'm talking small holes in the ground or small ditches damned up, that impact no one else. These farm ponds are great for the environment & the wildlife. That is why our government folks help us put them in... not fight us.


 This is where you are mistaken . Many around the US have ended up in trouble with the Federal EPA. The EPA is taking a stand they control any water . They just have not gotten to you yet. When they show up weather you know it or not the come with satellite photos of the area that go back years. Part of the agricultural dept. They have photos of every square inch of this country.
You keep mentioning impacting anyone else. It not a madder of who or what you impact it is about The EPA taking control and that has been going on a long time now. yep put them in and once they make a move they control it.


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