# And here is a big reason the US is in debt



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

And here is a big reason the US is in debt
View attachment 12597

The worst part is a guy at my last work is following all but the owning the 
home and renting to the girlfriend.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Sometimes I get so GD angry at the way our country is going. What can we do......


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

What the .....? I have to go do some research that can't be true, can it?


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

If you don't like it go back to France!!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The problem is much larger than a financial one. The cultural damage is much worse.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

From the Miller County Liberal paper: New American way of life | [url]www.millercountyliberal.com | Miller County Liberal[/URL]
The article is real enough, but source references are a bit harder to come by.

The figures could be half that, and it would still be a tragedy.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Your right Denton. The culture is forever changed. This system if allowed to continue and grow is doomed to failure. Problem is more and more people are indoctrinated every year. They will drag the country, and us, down so far we will never recover without a reset. We all know what that would entail.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

That is the way the numbers add up BUT it isn't the same as having cash to spend. That number, $75000 a year, should be the "poverty" level income of the US for a family of four. The bulk of that money is for living expenses and education. - the "disability" payment from SSA ($1800 /mo.) will pay for your incidentals - gas, entertainment, and clothing but it won't get you into a home that is yours.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Too much of some things go to middle men. Section 8 will pay rent to a landlord and the only thing that gets done is the landlord gets rich. Rent is the same cost as a mortgage. None of the programs listed fixes the underlying problem. Whatever you think that is.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

You can easily rent an apartment (or maybe a small house) with an $1800 /mo. income but you don't qualify to buy a house on that amount.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Go rent to own on section 8 then when that is over and paid for cut ties. Then sign up for free college at the same time. Graduate debt free with a house.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Section 8 allows you to rent-to-own? The section 8 housing in Washington doesn't allow that.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I think both sides spend too much money. The left with social programs, the programs are not the inherent problem, the wages for the liberals working at the program can go into the millions. I'm not lying. Multiply out a receptionist who makes 30k to the big wigs maybe 150k to dole out a paltry $750 a month for rent to maybe 50 people.

Then on the right we have 100 million plus aircraft and billion dollar carriers and other million dollar equipment.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

PaulS said:


> Section 8 allows you to rent-to-own? The section 8 housing in Washington doesn't allow that.


So the landlords in Washington get rich quick. You see rental properties going for nothing absolutely nothing everyday.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

By the time you bring a house up to code to meet the standards there is no other way to get your money back. Section 8 requires the maximum level of insulation, modern - up to code wiring and plumbing, water savers on all faucets, earthquake refits, double pane windows, and energy star appliances. (in addition to smoke and CO alarms - and gas alarms if fitted with gas appliances)

Low rent in section 8 is living well in Washington. It's no wonder there is no section 8 housing available.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Section 8 slumlords do it all of the time.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

PaulS said:


> You can easily rent an apartment (or maybe a small house) with an $1800 /mo. income but you don't qualify to buy a house on that amount.


In this area you can rent a NICE house for $750 -


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I know it's popular and fun to bash social programs, but you REALLY want to start saving money?

Here's where to start.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I thought jsf was supposed to be cheaper because it was based on the f22 so the tech was already developed. But on that subject I think we need a few for air to air and our old ones go air to ground. But the fewer you buy the more each individual one costs. They already spent this much why quit now?? And when what we currently have falls apart because its 1970's technology do we reopen this program or start a new one costing even more?? Plus what we already wasted.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

James m said:


> I thought jsf was supposed to be cheaper because it was based on the f22 so the tech was already developed. But on that subject I think we need a few for air to air and our old ones go air to ground. But the fewer you buy the more each individual one costs. They already spent this much why quit now?? And when what we currently have falls apart because its 1970's technology do we reopen this program or start a new one costing even more?? Plus what we already wasted.


In 2014, the GAO found that the F-35 fleet would have operating costs 79% higher than the aircraft it replaced. The latest Selected Acquisition Report stated that the program cost has increased 43% from 2001 with Program Acquisition Unit Cost up 68% and Unit Recurring Flyaway up 41%. The F-35A's cost per flying hour is $32.5k while the F-16C/D is $25.5k but each F-35A will only fly 250 hours a year to the F-16's 316 hours resulting in the same yearly operating cost.

BTW the F-16's (current production being manufactured in 2015) they are replacing can out-perform the F-35, and pretty much every other plane in the air fielded by our "opponents" whoever they are.

Russia? The F-16 Block 60's smoke anything they have. Better avionics, better controls, better weaponry, better command & control, you name it. China? Same deal. ISIS? Seriously?

Total cost of the F-35 project is 1.5 TRILLION dollars and climbing.

For one stinking aircraft program. ONE. Not the cost of the pilots, the ground crew, the equipment to maintain it, the spare parts, the ordinance it will fire, expendables like tires, or the training... JUST the airplane.

And the damned thing barely flies, and comes nowhere near meeting design specs.

Additionally, F-22 are air-superiority fighters designed to dogfight (not that anybody does that any more, but that's another argument). They are not built to be ground-attack aircraft like the F-16 & F/A-18's & Super Hornets, or the A-10. SO... that doesn't really do the same thing at all as the F-35 which will be dead meat in a dog fight at it's performance level.

On top of all of this, WTF do we need this stuff for? We've got better planes than everybody else in the world sitting in storage.

The answer? The military contractor system is just another form of government welfare, we pay people to produce a bunch of expensive crap we don't need and line the pockets of the people who put our politicians in office.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

The sukhoi with the canards and the mig 31 foxhound come to mind. Maybe I'm thinking su-34 too. But yes we are going to go bankrupt like they did because an su-34 is only $36 million.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

James m said:


> If you don't like it go back to France!!


I missed something who is from France?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

James m said:


> The sukhoi with the canards and the mig 31 foxhound come to mind. Maybe I'm thinking su-34 too. But yes we are going to go bankrupt like they did because an su-34 is only $36 million.


The SU-34 is a good plane, no doubt, but it's at very best an even match (with our old 16's... the Block 60's? Not so much).

Wanna know a secret though? The SU-34's fly in RUSSIA. WE don't need to fly in RUSSIA. Why? Because they still have a whole bunch of really big ass nuclear weapons. Just sayin.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

James m said:


> I think both sides spend too much money. The left with social programs, the programs are not the inherent problem, the wages for the liberals working at the program can go into the millions. I'm not lying. Multiply out a receptionist who makes 30k to the big wigs maybe 150k to dole out a paltry $750 a month for rent to maybe 50 people.
> 
> Then on the right we have 100 million plus aircraft and billion dollar carriers and other million dollar equipment.


EXACTLY right.

Money is power, and he who takes the money from the people at the point of a gun and spends the money where he chooses controls everything via tyranny.

It really is that simple.


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## Gimble (Aug 14, 2015)

The planes, pilots, ground crews etc aren't the real expense vs. how much the contractors are raping the gov't for... but if Boeing doesn't do it Grumman will (insert your favorite contractor, Its not personal). 

The entitlement programs really do extremely little to help the disadvantaged. Obamacare? That money goes to big pharma and insurance companies who provide big headaches and marginal care. Section 8? That goes to the landlords who pay the contractors.

Those on the entitlements can't get off and "go get a regular job" because they would be able to afford to live at the same level.

All that being said, it really is a long term indoctrination problem. People aren't being taught the value of a dollar, how to balance a checkbook, how to pay off debt, how to manage a credit score. You leave high school and are completely unprepared fr managing your life. Sure, you know some Shakespeare and your times tables... and that you need to go to college so you can get a high paying job -- but don't tell anybody lest you be chastised for not following the dogma.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

With public assistance you may as well be living in a Communist nation really.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

The banks and lending institutions have convinced the naieve and stupid that debt is good. You can have all you ever dreamed of, if you only charge it.
Debt sucks!


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## alexus (May 31, 2015)

While public assistance is abused and over used, I have to admit it got me on my feet. I was young with two children and newly divorced. I took advantage of the system including full welfare benefits for a total of maybe six months, free child care, free health care, and all college funding available. I did make it through school and I'm remarried. Both my husband and I work now sometimes 60 hours a week. My two children (one a recent high school graduate the other a senior) both have jobs. I am not proud that I needed the help, but am grateful for it. The problem is the cycle of government dependence created when people refuse to stand on their own two feet. I could tell of many who abused and continue to abuse the system. I have family members who have been on welfare their whole lives and now have children who partake of government freebies without remorse. I really could go on and on about how broken the system is, but feel I would be preaching to the choir as they say. 

I will stop my rambling for now, but another reason for the post was to come clean. I am highly critical of public assistance because of the misuse, but realize this makes me somewhat hypocritical as I was once on the receiving end.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I partake of the college funding but I will still have about a $3,500 bill for about 4 months.


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## OctopusPrime (Dec 2, 2014)

A couple years I was eating beans and rice ..ramen noodles...grilled "cheese" for dinner. I was below poverty but I never begged or got welfare in any form..i wouldn't accept any because I don't want to take from others work. 

I see people come in to use there ebt cards to get nice food and then then pay cash for cigs and booze..makes me madder than hell.


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## OctopusPrime (Dec 2, 2014)

PaulS said:


> You can easily rent an apartment (or maybe a small house) with an $1800 /mo. income but you don't qualify to buy a house on that amount.


Many apartments want your income to be three times your rent. Not sure about renting a house because I've never done that.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

The houses here are better and usually privately owned. Apartments you have to deal with neighbors small places and higher prices. You can rent a house with a yard for the same price as an apartment.


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## OctopusPrime (Dec 2, 2014)

Right around me the houses are very expensive. The cheapest is near 2000 a month. Apartment are on average 1600


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

It is a way to scam the system. These people may belazy but they are smart enough to get others to pay for them to live without working.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

The simple solution to welfare fraud is a bounty system. You find fraud, help the govt put an end to it, and get paid.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Welfare should exceeded the minimum wage.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Seneca said:


> Welfare should exceeded the minimum wage.


*Not?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

The information in this thread is infuriating. This must all end.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Ripon said:


> The simple solution to welfare fraud is a bounty system. You find fraud, help the govt put an end to it, and get paid.


Might I suggest re-reading the book 1984?


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

The stupidest thing I ever heard anyone say, is VP Biden saying to get out of debt we have to spend money. And people ate it up and agreed! Great, I should max out my credit cards to get out of debt! How stupid do you have to be!!


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

1skrewsloose said:


> The stupidest thing I ever heard anyone say, is VP Biden saying to get out of debt we have to spend money. And people ate it up and agreed! Great, I should max out my credit cards to get out of debt! How stupid do you have to be!!


Biden's default setting is "as dumb as a sack of hammers".


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Biden's default setting is "as dumb as a sack of hammers".


I wonder what both party's response would be if Trump gets the nomination and chooses Biden as his VP running mate? Now that would be FUBAR.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I wonder what both party's response would be if Trump gets the nomination and chooses Biden as his VP running mate? Now that would be FUBAR.


If Trump wants to keep from being assinated his best bet would be to pick a VP the left and right hate more than him.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> If Trump wants to keep from being assinated his best bet would be to pick a VP the left and right hate more than him.


Slippy for Trump's VP...


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