# Knife fighting skills



## John (Apr 22, 2012)

Does anyone know of some books, links, etc. on knife fighting skills? Free is better if available but willing to pay if reasonable.


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## fedorthedog (Feb 28, 2012)

If you look up stick or baton fighting the motions are the same, draw threw, dont hit,


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## John (Apr 22, 2012)

Thank you. I will follow up with that for sure.


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## preop (Jun 7, 2012)

I have invented a throwing knife that always "sticks", and after you throw it, it's still in your hand (sort of) with one in each hand, and some practice, you are at least as defense capable as the average cop is with his pistol in his holster, or the average person with a gun in their hand.  The ready position is with both hands raised behind your head, ready to throw each one, both being launched in 1/2 second, the second one as you step forward. One of the retained parts can then be thrown as you take the next step, and you can stab #4 guy with the 3rd step, all in 1.5 seconds or so, reaching 12ft of distance in that time. Believe me, the average cop needs over 1.5 seconds to draw and hit one guy at 12 ft, and most need 3 seconds to draw and hit 4 such people. The average "non gun" person, pistol in hand and aimed at enemy #1, will need more than 1.5 seconds to hit all 4 guys. In reality, most shots in combat miss, most hits are not to the vitals, so the average guy will empty a 15 rd magazine, and not successfully stop 4 men, taking 5 seconds or so to do this, starting with gun in hand.  You are not nearly as disadvantaged with just a couple of THIS type of throwing knife as nearly everyone thinks that you are. Quiet practice in your back yard, garage, basement, or attic, have a ball.


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## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

For the most expedient development of skills look to the Pinay and SE Asian systems. And one never throws one's primary combat blade , and you math is off for competent people with a firearm. 

Do this , look up the Tueller Drill and see why that edged weapon should stay in your hand. A second and a half is a long time.


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## preop (Jun 7, 2012)

I met Dennis tueller at the 1978 IPSC championships, I read his original article about charging men in Combat Handguns a few years later. Where were you, hmm? Since you don't know a thing about my system, and can't read the original post, that is all I have to say about it. I said I was stabbing the last of the 4 targets, does that sound like I threw away all my blades?  I started fast draw practice in 1966, where were you? I got my first fast draw timer in 1977, an old Krondek sweep hand model, where were you. My times are NOT off for the shooting, not at all. In the Diallo shooting, on a man who didn't even have a gun, 4 NYC cops shot at a guy a total of 41 times, the furthest one from him was 15 ft away, and emptied his magazine. That takes at least 4 seconds, even without a draw, for a typical cop, I assure you, if he is to have any control at all over where the bullets go. Since his fellow cops were (somewhat) in the line of fire and he didn't hit them, he had a bit of control. However, of the 41 shots, only 22 struck Diallo, and only 1 was a solid hit, but fatal. 

The FBI fired over 40 rds at Platt in Miami, striking him solidly only once, and that only by luck (since the cop who hit him in the lung/arm fired an entire mag at him and never hit him again) if you exclude the "execution style" 3 shots into his head, fired from 3 ft range (from the muzzle) by Mirules, after Platt was bled out and unarmed and trying to drive away in the cop car.


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## Jazzman (Jun 8, 2012)

preop said:


> I met Dennis tueller at the 1978 IPSC championships, I read his original article about charging men in Combat Handguns a few years later. Where were you, hmm? Since you don't know a thing about my system, and can't read the original post, that is all I have to say about it. I said I was stabbing the last of the 4 targets, does that sound like I threw away all my blades?  I started fast draw practice in 1966, where were you? I got my first fast draw timer in 1977, an old Krondek sweep hand model, where were you. My times are NOT off for the shooting, not at all. In the Diallo shooting, on a man who didn't even have a gun, 4 NYC cops shot at a guy a total of 41 times, the furthest one from him was 15 ft away, and emptied his magazine. That takes at least 4 seconds, even without a draw, for a typical cop, I assure you, if he is to have any control at all over where the bullets go. Since his fellow cops were (somewhat) in the line of fire and he didn't hit them, he had a bit of control. However, of the 41 shots, only 22 struck Diallo, and only 1 was a solid hit, but fatal.
> 
> The FBI fired over 40 rds at Platt in Miami, striking him solidly only once, and that only by luck (since the cop who hit him in the lung/arm fired an entire mag at him and never hit him again) if you exclude the "execution style" 3 shots into his head, fired from 3 ft range (from the muzzle) by Mirules, after Platt was bled out and unarmed and trying to drive away in the cop car.


 Bla blah blah blah............You *never* had an IPSC career Melvin , and you're quite simply full of shit. Figured out who you're doing your chihuahua act with yet?

And of course you'll crawfish like ya usually do , but that offer to *prove* your bullshit in a safe and open environment still stands , but YOU will never develop the stonies to show up at The Gathering of The Pack or any other venue where folks *actually* for real put their skills into the crucible to be tested.

And reposting capsule synopsis of various law enforcement shootings will get you as far as it has gotten you in a hundred other forums......NOWHERE.

Now run along with your tactical wheelbarrow..at least you haven't started the bullshit with " ablative armor of peanut butter" yet.

And " where were you" .ROTFLMAO............show us all your IPSC careeer Melly , we've been through this one before...remember............

Best remember that you're not the only old man around , punk.

And in the end what are *YOU* doing handing out firearms advice , since convicted felons can't legally own one , much less when they got busted for silencers AND BLOW in the same swoop.


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## Medelwr (Jun 10, 2012)

Bravo Jazzman. I'm not a regular around these kinds of forums yet but this preop/Gunkid guy sounds kinda like a douchebag. Anyway, about the original post, you can always sign up with Black Belt Magazine: World's Leading Magazine of Martial Arts - - Black Belt - World's Leading Magazine of Martial Arts. They offer free mini books and stuff. Ranges from swords and knives to unarmed stuff.


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## fedorthedog (Feb 28, 2012)

I am an Leo we are currently taught that a man with a knife within 21 feet can cut you before you can draw and shoot him. I have put on a fist suit (big padded defensive tactics suit) and got half my officers from 21 feet before they could draw and that is with movement restricted. They are talking about using 25 feet as the norm for justifying shoot the guy with the knife in court.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I took fencing lessons in high school and my first year of college. I thought "the blade" was the center of the exercise. I was wrong, it was all about *my feet*, and how I used them to advance, retreat and steady myself for a lunge. I never forgot those ideas, and even at my age my legs are still flexible and capable of steadying my stance.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I know not to bring one to a gun fight.


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## UncleMorgan (Mar 19, 2018)

I've seen a lot of articles about knife fighting, and trained with edged weapons quite a bit.

I agree that combat knives should not be thrown. It's very unlikely that a throw will stop your enemy, even though Hollywood portrays knife throwing as a 100% certain silent kill.

I've also seen endless arguments about which combat knife is best.

Just for giggles & grins, what I like in the knife department is not what most people would expect.

I favor a good old-fashioned fencing foil with a nice, sharp tip.

I took the bell off of mine. Since I won't be fencing anyone the hand protection is really unnecessary.

It's a skinny little thing, and very concealable without the bell.

Take my word for it if you've never gone up against someone with a weenie wire.

If they don't just whip you to death with it, they can poke a hole through your body just about anywhere they want, much faster than you want them to.

If you have a big ole' Crocodile Dundee "now-this-is-a-knoife" knife, you might as well be holding a spork for all the good it will do you.

You might survive, though, if you throw it.

And run away.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I’m pretty good with knife fighting - as long as it’s a bayonet mounted on the business end of an M1, M14, or M16.


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## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

After reading some of these posts I guess we should change the old saying to “never bring a gun to a knife fight”. Some thoughts on this, seems people are assuming that the other guy won’t already have a gun in his hand when you go for your knife. You also seem to assume that the other guy is going to wait to see what you are going to reach for your knife in stead of going for his gun at the same time. That while you are walking towards him with your knife he isn’t backing up as fast as he can while drawing his gun. That he even lets you get within 20 ft from him before he draws his gun. That the “average” guy can’t draw his gun if you head towards him with a knife from 20ft. and you aren’t facing the non average guy who can get his gun out in plenty of time. That if you do get close enough he isn’t going to block/deflect you thrust with his free arm or that you do cut him it is going to disable him to the point that he can’t stick his pistol in your belly and pull the trigger as fast as he is able and just let the recoil push the point of impact up to your chest. 

I think I will keep my pistol as my primary, a backup pistol as secondary, and a knife as last and desperate means of self defense.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

As I have said before in the past postings, sixty years ago I had some knife fighting training with a Pilipino Scout.

That scout killed plenty of japs with a knife and a bolo during the war, he was scarred up a bit from the combat.

Got my ass handed to me every time we worked out, it taught me one thing, get good with a gun, both rifle and pistol.:tango_face_smile:

I do carry at least two handguns on me when out and about, and a 4 inch folder that is a utility knife for me.

I have a Randall #1 fighter which is a great knife, was a X-mass present 30 years ago, will never use it in any fight.

One of the best fighting knives was the Fairbairn-Sykes by the Brits in Hong Kong 80 years ago.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

if your down to knife fighting, your in serious trouble.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I always carry a fixed blade sheath knife on my right side, mainly for two reasons.
#1 - people tend to leave me alone, and
#2 - if a bad guy doesn't want to leave me alone perhaps his eye will be drawn to see if I draw the knife, when actually I'll be drawing the pistol out of my left front pocket. That fraction of a second advantage may be all I need.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm pretty good with knife fighting - as long as it's a bayonet mounted on the business end of an M1, M14, or M16.


I used to know folks who carried knives around with em to give to dead folks who had forgot to bring a weapon to the fight. Better late than never eh? They also had cheap pistols to give too


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> I used to know folks who carried knives around with em to give to dead folks who had forgot to bring a weapon to the fight. Better late than never eh? They also had cheap pistols to give too


Ah, Yup! I knew them too!


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Notold63 said:


> I think I will keep my pistol as my primary, a backup pistol as secondary, and a knife as last and desperate means of self defense.


Funny how people make choices. I am the opposite, I'm more dangerous with a knife than I am with a pistol. In my life, the worst positions I was in were within arms' reach. I can get a sharp knife into action faster than reaching behind my right kidney, unsnapping the holster and then bringing the firearm forward.

To that, I have an observation. For some reason, pulling a knife seems to scare attackers more than a pistol. I might shoot the pistol, and I might miss. But slashing an attacker a dozen times is going to be serious even if I miss a few times.

Oh, learn to polish and refine the cutting tool you are going to depend upon. I've found that factory edges can slip off a guy's sleeve without really cutting through leather (or wool), a jacket liner sleeve, a shirt sleeve and then most likely a minor amount of skin.


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