# TX Knife Laws Changing!



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

For any TX resident that hasn't heard, as of September 1, 2017, we can legally carry fixed blade knives, Bowie knives, swords, spears, folders over 5.5", and throwing knives and shuriken (stars). 

Also, the cost for a gun carry permit drops from $140 to $40.

Another step out of carpetbagger laws of 1871! If the congress had the guts to put a Constitutional carry law before Gov. Abbot, he'd pass it, too!


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I always love to hear good news, but also would appreciate a source with which to verify.



<- He's not my avatar of choice for nuthin', ya know. ;-)

In any case, LTC holders in Texas have been able to carry these items, and more, since the concealed carry law was first signed back in '95.
It just wasn't advertised.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm sure Mr Bowie is a smilin looking down at the Alamo from the pearly gates.

So educate me on this? You can't carry a hunting knife in Texas? WTF???!!!


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

Here's one link:

5 Things to Know About New Knife Laws in Texas | Dallas Observer

There are lots of others out there on the interwebz. :tango_face_smile:

I don't have the LTC because of the past costs, but I may get one now that the cost requirements are coming down, too. (Also, the minimum caliber requirement has gone away.)


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> I'm sure Mr Bowie is a smilin looking down at the Alamo from the pearly gates.
> 
> So educate me on this? You can't carry a hunting knife in Texas? WTF???!!!


You can after this Friday!


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

What about bayonet's on you rifle or pistol?


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> I'm sure Mr Bowie is a smilin looking down at the Alamo from the pearly gates.
> 
> So educate me on this? You can't carry a hunting knife in Texas? WTF???!!!


Depends...
In Texas, the average citizen cannot carry an "illegal knife".
That is defined by the following within the Penal Code:


> (6) "Illegal knife" means a:
> (A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
> (B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
> (C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
> ...


So, if said hunting knife does not meet any of these categories, it would be legal to carry by any citizen, barring any legal reasons to the contrary.(ex-con, etc...)

After reading the article DRC provided, it looks like the above definition is being repealed entirely, and there are now minimal restrictions to knife carry.
You still can't carry one longer than 5.5 inches into a courthouse, polling place, and other such locations, but it's a shine better than it used to be.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Chipper said:


> What about bayonet's on you rifle or pistol?


The word "bayonet" does not exist within the entirety of Texas law. ;-)
It would likely be lumped in as a "dagger" along with other double-edged blades, but this law will make that a thing of the past.


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Depends...
> In Texas, the average citizen cannot carry an "illegal knife".
> That is defined by the following within the Penal Code:
> 
> ...


I'd be a criminal in Texas then.

My Mother would be criminal in Texas, her kitchen is filled with that kind of "criminal" "weapons".

How do you people eat? Without a knife less than 5.5"? Must be an adventure to cut open a melon or a roast.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Dammit all...

I got excited about these changes, so I went looking for others.
Looks like Texas has fallen into the same stupidity of other states, and will now be regulating "texting while driving."
Say what you like, but Perry had it right when he vetoed a previous attempt. He called it a "government effort to micromanage the behavior of adults."

If you cause an accident because you were texting while driving, that should be reckless driving.
If you look down at your phone while driving, but cause no infraction at all, can you now be pulled over for "investigation", and questioned on the spot to defend yourself against an accusation without evidence?

This is asinine. Are we going to have to write a law to ban reading while driving? Eating while driving? Putting on makeup while driving?

Now I'm upset again.
Dammit all...


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> I'd be a criminal in Texas then.
> 
> My Mother would be criminal in Texas, her kitchen is filled with that kind of "criminal" "weapons".
> 
> How do you people eat? Without a knife less than 5.5"? Must be an adventure to cut open a melon or a roast.


Perhaps you misunderstood. It is not illegal to own these knives.
It is illegal to carry them in public.
I own many knives that fall under these definitions.


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

I do hate the fact that they added 1,252 laws though. I wish they'd repeal, not add.

The "club laws" still suck. I'd like to carry my expandable baton when I take my dog on walks because of the other dogs that run loose in my area (whether by people that don't care, no habla leash laws, or the dogs escape from their yards). But if I do, I commit a felony! If I carry anything that a cop could construe as a club, it's a felony!

After the new laws go into effect, I can carry a big stick with a spear point on it, and it will be legal! Then I can smack a dog with the blunt end and not be arrested for defending myself!


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Perhaps you misunderstood. It is not illegal to own these knives.
> It is illegal to carry them in public.
> I own many knives that fall under these definitions.


And we could legally carry switchblades for quite a while now.


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Dammit all...
> 
> I got excited about these changes, so I went looking for others.
> Looks like Texas has fallen into the same stupidity of other states, and will now be regulating "texting while driving."
> ...


All distracted driving should be lumped together as reckless driving!

"But officer, I wasn't texting! I was watching Netflix/YouTube/porn/Facebook videos!

OK. There's no law against that, so you're free to go.

And the slap on the wrist penalty for texting? $25 - $99? If you kill someone while texting $4000? What happened to vehicular manslaughter?


----------



## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

Dirt Road Cowboy said:


> I do hate the fact that they added 1,252 laws though. I wish they'd repeal, not add.
> 
> The "club laws" still suck. I'd like to carry my expandable baton when I take my dog on walks because of the other dogs that run loose in my area (whether by people that don't care, no habla leash laws, or the dogs escape from their yards). But if I do, I commit a felony! If I carry anything that a cop could construe as a club, it's a felony!
> After the new laws go into effect, I can carry a big stick with a spear point on it, and it will be legal! Then I can smack a dog with the blunt end and not be arrested for defending myself!


If I understand you correctly, if I'm walking down the sidewalk with my walking stick and a dog makes an aggressive move toward me , I can't defend myself because them my walking stick becomes a club, but I would be legal to shoot him with my concealed handgun?


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

rstanek said:


> If I understand you correctly, if I'm walking down the sidewalk with my walking stick and a dog makes an aggressive move toward me , I can't defend myself because them my walking stick becomes a club, but I would be legal to shoot him with my concealed handgun?


Under Texas law, it could be construed that way. I wouldn't want to risk it, so I'll put a spear head on my walking stick and be legal! :laugh:


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Now what if you are out in the back 40 with a machete cutting brush? Criminal?


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> Now what if you are out in the back 40 with a machete cutting brush? Criminal?


On your own property it has always been legal, just not in public.

I'm thinking about wearing both of my Katanas this weekend to celebrate, and watch some snowflakes melt down!


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Dirt Road Cowboy said:


> I do hate the fact that they added 1,252 laws though. I wish they'd repeal, not add.
> 
> The "club laws" still suck. I'd like to carry my expandable baton when I take my dog on walks because of the other dogs that run loose in my area (whether by people that don't care, no habla leash laws, or the dogs escape from their yards). But if I do, I commit a felony! If I carry anything that a cop could construe as a club, it's a felony!
> 
> After the new laws go into effect, I can carry a big stick with a spear point on it, and it will be legal! Then I can smack a dog with the blunt end and not be arrested for defending myself!


I guess Texas has been without little league game s quite a while now:vs_frown:. Those kids need those nasty "clubs" to hit a homer.

Shit! I'd be arrested for delivering firewood too!!! :vs_OMG:I'd have a whole truck load of "clubs":devil:.

If I clean up the storm damage in my yard, I might come across a "club":vs_shocked:, should I call LE/911:vs_worry:?


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> I guess Texas has been without little league game s quite a while now:vs_frown:. Those kids need those nasty "clubs" to hit a homer.
> 
> Shit! I'd be arrested for delivering firewood too!!! :vs_OMG:I'd have a whole truck load of "clubs":devil:.
> 
> If I clean up the storm damage in my yard, I might come across a "club":vs_shocked:, should I call LE/911:vs_worry:?


It wasn't quite that bad, but close. Much of the laws were left up to the cop or the court to interpret. An organized sporting event: okay. Carrying the bat openly to the event: felony! (Then you may end up somewhere with Bubba and Tyrone showing you their "clubs" and making you squeal like a pig!)

If you clean up storm damage, it's fine. If you swing that club and hit a cat while cleaning up, and it's a $4000 fine!


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

To clarify the "club laws", the item itself must actually be a club, meaning it's primary function is to club things.


> (1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following:
> (A) blackjack;
> (B) nightstick;
> (C) mace;
> (D) tomahawk.


So, a walking stick/baseball bat/cane is NOT a club.
A walking stick/baseball bat/cane that has been wrapped in barbed wire and had a few nails and saw blades affixed into it... *that* would be a club.

A baton is also considered a club, as it is designed to cause bodily harm.

That said, DRC, if you are going to be getting your LTC due to the new lower fees, you'll be able to carry a baton. ;-)


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> To clarify the "club laws", the item itself must actually be a club, meaning it's primary function is to club things.
> 
> So, a walking stick/baseball bat/cane is NOT a club.
> A walking stick/baseball bat/cane that has been wrapped in barbed wire and had a few nails and saw blades affixed into it... *that* would be a club.
> ...


The problem with the law as it is written are the terms: _includes but is not limited to the following_, and _adapted_.

Swinging a big stick could be said that by swinging it, you have adapted it into a weapon. _includes but is not limited to the following_ is open to whatever the cop wants to think is a club. Then you have to fight it in court.

Since it is legal to own these things, why not just make USING them the crime, not carrying them?

Never mind, that would make too much sense.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Dirt Road Cowboy said:


> The problem with the law as it is written are the terms: _includes but is not limited to the following_, and _adapted_.
> 
> Swinging a big stick could be said that by swinging it, you have adapted it into a weapon. _includes but is not limited to the following_ is open to whatever the cop wants to think is a club. Then you have to fight it in court.
> 
> ...


Something that has been "adapted for the purpose of" would imply that it no longer serves its original function, but has been altered in such a way as to serve a new function.
Swinging a stick doesn't change the stick. You would be charged with assault, but not charged with unlawful carry of a weapon.
Also, the charge of unlawful carry of a weapon is a class A misdemeanor. Not a felony, unless committed on the premises of a place that sells alcohol.


> (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
> (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.


And yes, your solution is wholly adequate... and makes far too much sense to be made law.


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Something that has been "adapted for the purpose of" would imply that it no longer serves its original function, but has been altered in such a way as to serve a new function.
> Swinging a stick doesn't change the stick. You would be charged with assault, but not charged with unlawful carry of a weapon.
> Also, the charge of unlawful carry of a weapon is a class A misdemeanor. Not a felony, unless committed on the premises of a place that sells alcohol.
> 
> And yes, your solution is wholly adequate... and makes far too much sense to be made law.


But if the cop wants to be a jerk, you'll still have to fight it out in court.

The prosecutor could claim that use = adaptation. :vs_poop:

"Why were you carrying that stick like a club?" "Why were you walking a scary black dog through the neighborhood?" "Isn't it true that you meant to intimidate the Hispanics, Blacks, and Muslims in that area, showing your White Supremacy and brandishing a large club?" "Why do you think that you have the right to keep a black dog on a leash? Isn't it true that you want to see all Blacks under your White control?" :vs_mad:

Walking my dog just became a hate crime! :sad2:


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Dirt Road Cowboy said:


> But if the cop wants to be a jerk, you'll still have to fight it out in court.
> 
> The prosecutor could claim that use = adaptation. :vs_poop:
> 
> ...


Thankfully, most of Texas isn't that stupid, so I take my chances. ;-)


----------



## Dirt Road Cowboy (Nov 22, 2015)

I'm just going to enjoy the changes, and hope for more change for the good! :tango_face_wink:


----------

