# Drones during a SHTF



## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

deleted


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Another application for 12 gauge and skill!


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

You can't shoot down a drone with a 12 ga if it's flying at 2000 feet altitude. I've posted on this before: Send a drone to kill a drone.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> You can't shoot down a drone with a 12 ga if it's flying at 2000 feet altitude. I've posted on this before: Send a drone to kill a drone.


Your statement is correct however it would seem low cost threats would be coming in much closer. What a no goodnik picks up in a hobby store is unlikely to be an Air Force Predator.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

"No-goodnik" ... that is one of those woefully underused words of days gone by. Well played, sir!


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

retired guard said:


> Your statement is correct however it would seem low cost threats would be coming in much closer. What a no goodnik picks up in a hobby store is unlikely to be an Air Force Predator.


You can buy a fairly capable telescopic camera equipped drone that can observe you from 2000 feet for not much money. But first you have to determine what the no-goodnik drone is going to be used for. Intelligence? Fly your drone into it and bring it down. Attack? If the enemy drone is carrying a suicide bomb over your defenses, you are on a whole new level of air defense, requiring remote detection and counter attack. That's probably not going to be feasible for the ordinary joe.

It's a complicated problem. In "The Terminator" the drones almost win.


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## SecretPrepper (Mar 25, 2014)

I saw 1 at Walmart the other day with a built-in camera. I did not study it close enough to say how good the camera is. I did say out loud to Mrs SP "this thing is cheep and they are selling them here? This is gonna be a big problem and real soon." I don't remember the price other than thinking "wow I could pay for this with the cash in my pocket" I thought that the ones with cameras were higher priced but at that price range there will be a lot of them around. I guess you could put up fishing line over your back yard like they do at beach resorts do to keep the birds out of the pool and bar areas. That would take care of the low flying looking in windows and under porches Without the posibilitie of braking the law.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

PaulS had the idea of taking over the frequency and turning it on its owner.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> PaulS had the idea of taking over the frequency and turning it on its owner.


I know. That has to be the best way. But I'm no electronics genius, I couldn't do it.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Good post.something to think about.you sure wouldnt want cause any collateral damage shooting one down with a shotgun or rifle fire.


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## SecretPrepper (Mar 25, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> I know. That has to be the best way. But I'm no electronics genius, I couldn't do it.


Like more than I want to admit. His post about that went beyond my abilities before the end of the first paragraph.


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## Viper (Jun 4, 2015)

tinkerhell said:


> Lets face it, these drones are getting so cheap that everyone and their dog could afford one if they really tried.
> 
> Sure enough, someone with an evil plan will be using them against us during a SHTF event near you.
> 
> So lets talk tactical. How do we defend against them? counter measures? should we get some of our own? In what ways will they be used against us?


While jammers are illegal, direction finding equipment is not. As I doubt that I would be (as a private citizen during a SHTF situation) up against a Predator or worse a Reaper UAV, most "drones" sold online or in hobby stores require the operator to be reasonably close. I'll leave it at that.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Viper said:


> While jammers are illegal, direction finding equipment is not. As I doubt that I would be (as a private citizen during a SHTF situation) up against a Predator or worse a Reaper UAV, most "drones" sold online or in hobby stores require the operator to be reasonably close. I'll leave it at that.


Ah, I see grasshopper.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> PaulS had the idea of taking over the frequency and turning it on its owner.


Paul does not know how they operate that would do nothing and all the defence I read here are just a joke.

#1 they do not use analog signals they use a series of coded digital signals and if they detect to much noise on their frequency then they would just switch to another.
#2 Just about all the small drones that have been hit were low and just hoovering. Not flying at 30mph and a 1000 or more feet high to where you wouldn't even see the thing.
#3 They do not fly like an airplane they go straight up to the desired altitude and land coming straight down so if it was in a spot that was vulnerable to gun fire it would be to late as it would be straight over the target anyway and you would only make it come down quicker.
#4 Trying to hit them with another drone would be very difficult also unlike objects on the ground you have to be at the exact same height even with a camera it would be very difficult. If you look at one flying you can't even tell how high it is and you would have to have a much faster drone be ready to fly at a moments notice and see it coming from a distance.
#5 Then again if the evil drone operator was smart enough he would just pick a route and coordinates using google maps and have it fly on it own right above tree tops go straight up a 1000 or so feet till it was over it's target.
But people should think of how useful they would be in a SHTF situation which is a 1000 times more likely what they would be used for. Basically you could think of them as a moveable watchtower that can see over and around the hills, building and search for people or your loved ones in ways that would be impossible on foot or any vehicle. Their low weight carrying ability greatly limits their capabilities to be used as a weapon.
But for search and rescue there is nothing out there that would do as good.
You could search areas that would be impossible to even use a helicopter.

Too make a long story short it may be difficult to keep one from hitting your house, but it would be even more difficult for them to make it be able to do any damage.
Like someone training a pigeon to crap on your head.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

The ones I have seen don't have a duration of more than 20 minutes or so. This puts the operator fairly close. It shouldn't be that hard to follow one back to it's owner.

Of course, actually following it home might not be a great idea in some situations. It really depends on terrain, particularly on available cover from above. In a desert, not so easy to do, in a wooded area, I'm gonna sneak and peek and see where it lands.

After that, play it by ear.

PS: My military background is in armored reconnaissance, so going to take a look is often my first thought.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I don't know about 'ineffective', rickyw. If a drone can lift a 10 ounce camera, it can lift 10 ounces of RDX. I wouldn't want to be close to it.

How would you defend against a drone?


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> The ones I have seen don't have a duration of more than 20 minutes or so. This puts the operator fairly close. It shouldn't be that hard to follow one back to it's owner.
> 
> Of course, actually following it home might not be a great idea in some situations. It really depends on terrain, particularly on available cover from above. In a desert, not so easy to do, in a wooded area, I'm gonna sneak and peek and see where it lands.
> 
> ...


They have a range of 2 kilometers or 1.5 miles some have extended it to 4 miles. They could go straight home or they could make a long difficult path to follow home. Unless you have another flying craft I am not sure how you could follow it back. It would be going 30 to 50 miles per/hour over the forest while you would have to go the same speed through the forest.

The thing is it would be like a giant mosquito it would be more of a nuisance than to do any damage if someone wanted to use one.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Just bought my dad a quadcopter with camera for his birthday.
Less than $100, so quality is low to moderate. However, it does have a built-in wifi transmitter to send the video back to any smartphone/tablet that can stay linked to it.
This limits the range to more of a hobby use, and it can only stay in the air for 5-7 minutes.
It could be used for searching, but there is almost no offensive use at all.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> They have a range of 2 kilometers or 1.5 miles some have extended it to 4 miles. They could go straight home or they could make a long difficult path to follow home. Unless you have another flying craft I am not sure how you could follow it back. It would be going 30 to 50 miles per/hour over the forest while you would have to go the same speed through the forest.


If they were tricky and followed a different route in and out, it would be very hard to track. On the other hand, if you saw it come in, then go out on the same line more or less, you could get some idea of where it was launched from. I would look for a road or clearing on that line and start walking. (This assumes it's your home turf and you know the lay of the land)

They don't look like they go that fast, at least from the videos I have seen. I'm sure some of the high end ones can go that far that fast, but I don't think most can. At any rate, I'm probably gonna try to put eyes on the operator... I'll either catch him or not. If I do, he might well be focused on recovering the drone and let me get real close.

Edited to add: Oh, and the ones I have seen are pretty loud. You wouldn't necessarily have to see it to follow it.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Another point brought up by rickyw, that you wouldn't even see a drone at 1000 feet altitude.

He's probably right. I used to build box kites made from clear plastic film instead of paper, with the frames painted sky blue. Stealth kites! They were almost invisible at the height of one spool of string, what, about 250 feet? So even a minimally camo'd drone would be hard to see unless you were scanning for it purposefully. If you don't even know it's there, how can you kill it?


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> ...If you don't even know it's there, how can you kill it?


Use the force Luke!

But yeah, if you can't see or hear it, it's harder to deal with. OK, impossible-ish. Barrage balloons? Camo netting over everything? Frequency sweeping jammers?


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

#5 Then again if the evil drone operator was smart enough he would just pick a route and coordinates using google maps and have it fly on it own right above tree tops go straight up a 1000 or so feet till it was over it's target.

So,it seems like they are programmable?.even the cheepies?.didn't know that.thought it was line of sight,manually controlled.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

MI.oldguy said:


> #5 Then again if the evil drone operator was smart enough he would just pick a route and coordinates using google maps and have it fly on it own right above tree tops go straight up a 1000 or so feet till it was over it's target.
> 
> So,it seems like they are programmable?.even the cheepies?.didn't know that.thought it was line of sight,manually controlled.


Depends...
The hobby ones are just flying RC vehicles.
The professional ones are direct control and programmable.

The $2K ones they sold at Fry's near me could carry 15lbs.
With just a detach hook, that could be a serious delivery platform.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

The old predator drones flew too high and too slow to get shot down by normal aircraft. 100 mph and 10,000 feet and below is an odd number. But its perfect territory for an MI-24 hind.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

That would probably be your best bet if it flew in a straight line. But the ones you can get it the $1500 to $3000 dollar range will fly between 30 to 60 mph. Everything looks like it is going slow when it is high up in the air 
I just see them as a much more useful tool in a major catastrophe even the one Kauboy mentioned he bought for a hundred dollars and has very limited range you would be surprised how far you can see by just taking it straight up of course what you see on the smart phone screen won't compare with the video that they can take of the area.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

tinkerhell said:


> Sorry, I have lots of questions but very little for answers.
> 
> I know that most hobby planes operate on the same 7 or so frequencing, each frequency has been assigned a 'color'. So, if you bought a plane than runs on 'blue' CH, and your buddy has a really awesome ground controller, you can use his controller to take your plane out for a flight. In its simplest form, two planes can not fly together at the same time on the same channel.
> 
> ...


I couldn't see why several drones couldn't fly at the same time on the same frequency as long as they each was being operated by a different radio controler and operator. The way they operate now. Each plane has to be linked to its controller (basically linking is both the aircraft and controller will use a digital sequence of data that must match) So when you push the stick forward on the controller it send a digital string out maybe 27 bits long and the last seven or so bits must match the aircraft link code for it to read the data. Remember you are using frequencies in the gigahertz so there could be thousands of different strings of information on the same frequency. Think about all the people using cellphone that are on the same frequency and how they can all talk at the same time.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

if you got time to fly around a drone during or after a shtf then I would say you got to much time on your hands.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

OK, so we are basically talking about 2 different levels of threat here.

1... That posed by a determined, well equipped opponent such as a government or well organized group. These would have high tech resources and there's probably not much you could do against them. Their drones will be capable of extended duration flights from considerable distances, fly high and silent, and might also be armed.

2... Those from less well equipped opponents who use drones with short flight durations, which might be detectable and/or trackable. These could possible be jammed or tracked and are probably unarmed.

History can shed some light on the problem. Arial recon has traditionally been dealt with in one of 3 ways...

1... Shoot down or otherwise render the threat aircraft ineffective. This is only possible if you detect the intrusion, and even then is extremely hard to do. Consider the SR-71 as an example of something that can be detected but is more or less impossible to engage, and take a stealth fighter or bomber as an example of something that can't be detected. There are no 100% effective solutions for either of these.

2... Hide everything so there's nothing to see. This could take the form of camouflaging positions to make them invisible. You could have fighting positions covering probable routes of advance that are invisible from the air. Another option is making the area look like there is nothing there worth taking. Scattering stuff in the yard to make the place look looted is one example. You might also be able to make the place look burned out from the air.

3... Making the place look much stronger than it actually is. This might mean setting up a bunch of fake tents and campfires to look like there is a considerable force present. It might mean setting up many obvious prepared defensive positions, or any such ruse that would make a smaller, less determined enemy go seek greener pastures. As a historical note, the Brits set up whole divisions of inflatable tanks, artillery, and so on in the days leading up to D-Day. Deception does work.

Ultimately though, it comes down to balance... how serious is the threat vs how much time, effort, and resources you will devote to countering that threat. For me, drones are a non-issue. I just don't see them as enough of a threat to do anything at all about them right now.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Drones are noisy, have limited endurance, keep the operator so focused on flying it that they can't maintain surveillance close to them. They also scream "here I am" like a shining beacon to raiders.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## Renec (Dec 21, 2012)

Think of the advantage of having an "eye in the sky" so to speak. Your Camo-Fu would need to be very good or the Drones can detect you, and recon your area and defenses.On the flip side,it could be a great tool as well to see what is on the other side of the hill without risking your neck.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

We will all live under Sargon's Eye. Be the gray man.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

tinkerhell said:


> Its a new era. It may not be all beans, bullets, and brawn like we tend to fantasize
> 
> for example, knowledge is valuable. How do you flee a tyrant when they have an eye in the sky reporting your every move?


It is a double edge sword how would you see a tyrant coming from miles away in any direction or if there was a huge catastrophe you could send it up and see what is the best escape route.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

tinkerhell said:


> I think it would be plausible that you could jam a quadcopter with a jamming device designed to jam wi-fi and cellular frequencies, but it would have to be a brute force - ie stronger scrambled signal - method of jam. Any device that attempts to trick your phone or wi-fi system is likely to fail as a quadcopter jammer. just my opinion, of course.
> 
> Range of your jammer would be a factor, I use to own ( lost it in a creek) a multiband cellphone jammer, it worked well, but it only worked for phones in a radius of about 40 feet.


Even if you had a supper strong Jammer that somehow could keep it from receiving signals it would just turn around on it own and fly to the exact spot it took off from but more than likely the operator would just take control again once it got out of the range of the jammer. I just don't see them as a threat even if they were 4000 feet high and lost all power once they started to pick up speed falling the propellers would auto rotate like a maple seed and would slow it down enough that it couldn't do much damage. Usually you have to replace one are more propellers but they are just a few dollars


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> Is that wise? I mean air superiority tends to be a huge strategic advantage, no? When the US goes up against other countries, they place a pretty high priority to owning the skies. In what ways do you think drones are the same, and what ways are they different?


There's nothing I can do against sophisticated drones I can't detect. A determined enemy will sweep the area one way or another so no amount of deception will stop them. It might seem like a viable strategy to make a fighting position that can't be seen from the air and ambush them on the probable route of advance, but in the end, this is a tactic that is doomed to fail. You will eventually be rooted out... by land, air, or artillery. The only way to beat such an opponent is to not be there when they come. Since I probably wouldn't even detect this kind of drone, the point is moot.

The lower tech drones might be heard or seen. I intend to make my place look looted anyway, drones or no drones, so this doesn't alter my plans one way or another. I don't have the manpower to man a perimeter at any distance from my house, so my only defensive option is to make a stand inside the house and be ready to flee if it comes to that. If I see or hear a drone, I'll at least be on high alert, which helps.

Bottom line, nothing I can do will make me "own the skies" so I can't be bothered wishing I could. There are SHTF scenarios that I probably won't survive, but there are plenty that I probably will. I try to focus on the things I can deal with instead of making half-baked fantasy plans to overcome threats that are beyond my control.


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## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

Commercially available drones for the masses don't fly to high or to long for that matter before they need a recharge. And their radius from the remote isn't that far. Chase it back to its driver. Or just use some # 6 shot on it. 

If its military just friggin hide. Cuz they aren't seeing what's out there so they can write you a post card.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Robert Sheckley wrote a short story back in the sixties called "Watchbird". It was about drones being used to prevent crime before it happens. It's available free at this site. I read it as a kid. An interesting story.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/29579/29579-h/29579-h.htm


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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

deleted double post


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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

You know how they built the A10 around a giant Gatling gun. In the 70's, there was an outfit, Tippman, I think, but not sure (I just looked it up, it was the American 180), that marketed a full auto .22LR. It had a pistol grip and wooden stock and fore end, with a 177 round horizontal drum magazine on top. Looked like a mini Lewis gun. The idea was it would be a good squad car gun in urban settings. I got to shoot one at bowling pins about ten years ago and it was a hoot. Now...build a remote control (with gun camera) P51D Mustang around one of those and go prairie dog strafing. Jack rabbits would be pretty sporting, too. Or build a WWI Spad or Nieuport and mount a couple just ahead of the cockpit. 
Vroooom, zooooooom rat-a-tat-tat-tat.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Stick said:


> You know how they built the A10 around a giant Gatling gun. In the 70's, there was an outfit, Tippman, I think, but not sure (I just looked it up, it was the American 180), that marketed a full auto .22LR. It had a pistol grip and wooden stock and fore end, with a 177 round horizontal drum magazine on top. Looked like a mini Lewis gun. The idea was it would be a good squad car gun in urban settings. I got to shoot one at bowling pins about ten years ago and it was a hoot. Now...build a remote control (with gun camera) P51D Mustang around one of those and go prairie dog strafing. Jack rabbits would be pretty sporting, too. Or build a WWI Spad or Nieuport and mount a couple just ahead of the cockpit.
> Vroooom, zooooooom rat-a-tat-tat-tat.


Cool! You should write video games.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

flying a drone = bad idea to me 
somebody know your there ,they know you have stuff and may be an easy target.
best to keep in the shadows and look as unimportant as you can and have virtually nothing anyone would want. my 2 cents


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

btw if I had the money to spend on a drone and the equipment I would need to keep it operational I would rather get a portable ground radar that can ping multiple targets like man sizes crawling in a heavy rain @ a 1/4 mile or so. these devices also have tracking ect. built in.
Perimeter Protection Systems: Blighter Ground Surveillance Radar
GROUND BASED RADARS - ULTIMATE INTRUSION SENSORS - i-HLS
Perimeter Security Radar | 360° Perimeter Surveillance
I think that would be a hell of a lot more useful and stealthythan buzzing around a drone with cameras.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## Ellipsis (Sep 9, 2015)

tinkerhell said:


> Lets face it, these drones are getting so cheap that everyone and their dog could afford one if they really tried.
> 
> Sure enough, someone with an evil plan will be using them against us during a SHTF event near you.
> 
> So lets talk tactical. How do we defend against them? counter measures? should we get some of our own? In what ways will they be used against us?


Well first I would decide if I need to do anything about the drone at all. I wouldn't want to interfere with disaster relief efforts, neighborhood watch, fire/emt scouting, etc. Just because a drone appears doesn't mean I'm going to attack it. If I think the drone is the friendly sort, I might make a sign if I have information to send up. If the drone is benign, just someone cruising for lulz, I would invite them to fly the drone somewhere else.

If I decide I need to attack the drone, my first thought is to use water. Maybe there's pressure enough in the plumbing to use the hose, maybe I can use a water gun. Next option might be to throw a ball or rock since these drones aren't very hardy. Maybe I can use a drone of my own (bumper-drones ftw), maybe I'm into falconry and have a raptor trained to attack drones, maybe I own a 1000mw+ laser and can use a sustained beam to overheat a motor. Maybe I just go inside and ignore it.

I'm not going to use a firearm unless I'm ready to explain to a jury how my life was in danger.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Well I may be wrong but I think most of you are dreaming about how easy it would be to bring down a drone and I was talking just about store bought models. If it was a TEOTWAWKI then it would be the hobbies that would be operating and changing them. First all they have to do is change the software limit and now they are flying 4000 to 6000 ft high then if they could put boosters on them and give them a 4 mile range. So now you have something the size of a dinner plate to hit at 2000 YRDS straight up (which would be even very unlikely that it happened to fly straight over your head) and going 30 to 60 mph. And if that isn't bad enough probably only 1/3 of that area would be vital enough to bring it down. 

So you won't see it, you won't hear it but somehow you are going to know it is there, and you are going to bring it down with what would be an almost impossible shot for a sniper if it was sitting still on the ground at a target range. You best be practicing being able to hit a plate size object at 1000 yrd and when you can do that constantly move the plate to 2000 YRDS and then have someone pull it along at 40 mph and see if you can hit it. When you can do all that then you maybe ready to talk about it.

I will probably hear from some people now that they shoot ducks all the time that are 4000 to 6000 ft high.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## Blackcat (Nov 12, 2012)

Just my 10 cents on this interesting topic. 
My father has a drone company. The focus is industrial and survey drones. He has many cutting edge drones in his shop from micros to giant surveillance types? Because of his little obsession im getting a bit interested in this myself. 

Imo... Drones are here to stay and what we have now in way of drone tech is just the tip of the iceberg. Drones have many uses but the security implications make me shudder. At the point we are at now... What cant a drone do ? Any average joe blow can now make a drone in their garage that can carry a payload of many pounds or a gun or take Telescopic HD recordings at long range.

Now when I say long range... Unless the drone operator is very novice you're not going to shoot a drone. Even the basic models can record you from altitudes which you cannot see or hear the drone.

Drones arent all gaint noisy awkward monstrosities many seem to believe. Drone tech is evolving in huge leaps and bounds. We already have drones that are the size of mosquitoes. The issue there is the current power sources are to bulky to really allow these drones to be of use BUT power source tech is also evolving at an amazing pace.

If you know what you're doing as far as building and repairing your drone and scrounging parts a drone could be very functional post SHTF.

Really with $ 1000-2000 and a little know how just about anybody can build a drone that can record you or shoot at you or drop who knows what on you and you wouldnt see it coming.

I try not to worry about that aspect much... Its going to happen it has happened. I look at it like a computer hacker after your personal info. You can have all the security, firewalls, encryption in the world... Till a better hacker comes along and lays it to waste. 
So how do you stay safe ? I believe the only answer is knowledge... It is power after all  If you're really worried about security against a hacker you either learn the hackers trade or hire someone that knows it. If your worried about drones keep up to date on drone tech.

The main limitations of drones currently are signal range for controlled drones, power limitations, noise and load capacity.
All of which are rapidly being overcome by new tech.

Within a decade I am sure we will have mosquito size drones capeable of silent undetected long range flight. You could set a target with gps and have the drone carry a small HD recording system or small injectable payload. Its this sort of thing that makes me shudder.. Were surprisingly closer to this than most people realize.

I think the only real way to be safe when it comes to drones is to not be a target. (If you know what I mean)
Its like the rfid thing... I want an rfid implant for shits and giggles but everybody tells me "but they will use it to track you"
My reply is "im not interesting enough for anyone to want to track. If for some reason someone wants to find me that badly I would probably know about it and ill cut the rfid out" non issue.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Instead of focusing on counter-measures against drones, which IMO there isn't much you can do unless you put up camo nets to cover what they can see, I have decided to use the technology for my benefit. My wife and kids thought a drone would be a fun toy for me to get for Christmas. It's not a very expensive model and has a limited range of a couple of hundred yards, but it does have a camera, and IMO it could be very handy to see if someone is hiding behind the barn or even going up a 100 yards or so to get a long range view on what is going on in the immediate area. There are better models of drones available to the public although more expensive. IMO although they aren't armed, information is power, and with cameras they can be very useful to an individual in a SHTF situation.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Very interesting post, Blackcat. Thanks.


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