# What is it goin to take?



## PrepConsultant (Aug 28, 2012)

We all agree the US is in a downhill spiral.. What do you think it is goin to take to make a change for the better?? Or do you think it has gone too far??? I mean realistically, we all talk about changing welfare and such. But it is going to have to be a drastic situation to make a turn for the better I believe..


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

IMHO, we would all have to hold hands and sing show tunes...

When the moon is in the seventh house 
And Jupiter aligns with Mars 
Then peace will guide the planets 
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius 
The age of Aquarius, Aquarius, Aquarius

(EVERYBODY!!!)

Harmony and understanding 
Sympathy and trust abounding 
No more falsehoods or derisions 
Golden living dreams of visions 
Mystic crystal revelation
And the minds true liberation

Aquarius, Aquarius

Eh, screw it, not gonna happen. <shrug>


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## 9UC (Dec 21, 2012)

IMHCO, my short answer is a return to God (II Chronicles 7:14). Shortly after WWII, "we" as a nation chose to allow our government to take God out of our society. When we did, we did not do a replacement with anything that gave us a moral guide line to life. It's now 2013, roughly 67-68 years later, I grieve that our society for we have now nearly succeeded. Whats worse, our Supreme Court Jesters now dictates our morality. The will and the vote of the public no longer counts.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> IMHO, we would all have to hold hands and sing show tunes...
> 
> When the moon is in the seventh house
> And Jupiter aligns with Mars
> ...


You know the words to the Age of Aquarius?!? And to think that I have been reading nearly everything you wrote because I was impressed with your common sense and knowledge. :-D

In a more serious answer to the original question: The welfare and freeloading will not stop until it physically can no longer continue - I.E. crash of the dollar or something similar. We have seen how effective the government and looter class is at using their power against any dissent. For example, look at how the IRS has harassed the Tea Party and the Tea Party was not really doing anything besides making some noise. If somebody came along and offered a real chance to restore the Constitutional Republic they would be vilified beyond belief. What is worse, I expect some of us might inadvertently cheer the government on in such a situation because they also own the media and most of our sources of information.

One of my biggest fears is that I might initially support some freedom stripping effort just because I do not have the information to know how bad it is. That is what happened to me with the Patriot Act. Initially, I thought it was okay (because it was only temporary). Big mistake.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Had a friend tell me, "the rich keep the poor happy, and the poor keep the rich in office". That was probably about 1978, I can't say things have gotten any better. Sometimes I think we, the working class, have allowed the government to grow into a monster that we'll never be able to cage. I think groups like the tea party was trying to re-take back our government, but were put under so much of an attack by the media, they were portrayed as everything from racist to wackos, to extremest. I am not a tea part member, I still don't know enough about them, but the things I did hear made sense to me.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Historically speaking, . . . every, . . . EACH AND EVERY, . . . government has come to its end, . . . one day, . . . one way or another.

It is said that a democracy or republic will only last as long as the constituents are willing givers, . . . willingly allowing themselves to be taxed for infrastructure, government and it's associated army, navy, congress, officials, etc. When the constituents ascertain that all they have to do is cry, . . . they become receivers instead of contibutors, . . . the balance of income vs outgo becomes unbalanced, . . . that particular government goes down, down and out.

We are not quite there, . . . but a few more obamaphone handouts, Solyndra debacles, and another 2 million ********* on top of the 24 million illegal senors, senoras, and senoritas, . . . and we are quickly approaching the breaking point. 

It's all kinda like the teeter totter we all played on as kids. We are the same people, . . . it's the same toy, . . . but now neither end will withstand the weight that is being thrown onto it. It's gonna break.

Will it be race riots? Will it be an internal civil war? Will it be a natural catastrophe? Will we be attacked by outside military forces?

Any one of these could be the Ft. Sumpter that begins the next big blood bath. 

We are in the downward spiral that fosters and spawns those debacles, . . . so keep your powder dry, . . . rice and beans on hand, . . . and keep looking up.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Go2ndAmend (Apr 5, 2013)

A revolution.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

History has shown, repeatedly, that all civilizations eventually collapse. I know that it is a bitter pill for red-blooded Americans to swallow, but I believe that it is inevitable. Greed will always undermine the best intentions of a society. Especially a free enterprise society. The rich will always try to take all the pie for themselves. The lazy will always beg for more pie, and the hardworking will always get a smaller piece until they get tired of it. The only variable in this equation is time. How long will it take? No one knows, but I see warning signs in America now.


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## JanerichoC18 (Jul 4, 2013)

PrepConsultant said:


> Or do you think it has gone too far???


Well... 300 million people in America... probably need to instill common sense and work ethic in about 150 million of them to fix this... Crap.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

The country may be too far gone to save.
The whole world is a mess the US included.
We are the healthiest horse in the glue factory, but may not be salvageable


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

A leader. 

It's not too late but each day it gets closer. A leader could take steps to reverse the negative trend and not just slow it down. Unlike many in the preparedness world I've seen govt work, do good, and enable masses to prosper. I'm not opposed to govt but it's long overdue for reform (real reform) and doing so could enable people like never before. I would say the technical industry has econimically created enough wealth to buy us time, but unfortunately we aren't spending the time wisely as a nation.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

PrepConsultant said:


> We all agree the US is in a downhill spiral.. What do you think it is goin to take to make a change for the better?? Or do you think it has gone too far??? I mean realistically, we all talk about changing welfare and such. But it is going to have to be a drastic situation to make a turn for the better I believe..


Gone to far. Stick a fork in it... Done. What you'll see now is basically a slow motion disaster or crash. Depending on what happens with the immigration bill, o care and 2014/16 I it will either accelerate or slow a little, but it won't stop.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

And just a further though. America will change and is changing. in 50 years, will it be the same that we have now? Nope. But to many it will be the new normal and they will accept that. I'm sure we will have crisis after crisis that will allow the government to take more control but again, to the people around in the next 50 years, it will be the new normal and ok with them. They won't know any better because schools and parents don't or won't teach them what America it's really about. We, who know, will mostly be gone in 50 years or fighting a losing cause.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

It's over. Prepare for the war that is to come.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

The stodgy lacklustre Dems and Reps have run the show for far too long, so what America needs are some alternate tough-talking firebrand Parties to vote for.
In Britain we're lucky in having two such parties, the BNP (British National Party) and UKIP (pronounced yookip, the United Kingdom Independence Party).
Here are their leaders in action-


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> Eh, screw it, not gonna happen. <shrug>


That is the truth.


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## Nathan Jefferson (May 11, 2013)

It will change, when it absolutely has to. Once our checks start bouncing and/or inflation goes crazy.

I believe it was Churchill who said something along the lines of "You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other possibilities."

We still have 'other possibilities'...


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Piratesailor said:


> And just a further though. America will change and is changing. in 50 years, will it be the same that we have now? Nope. But to many it will be the new normal and they will accept that. I'm sure we will have crisis after crisis that will allow the government to take more control but again, to the people around in the next 50 years, it will be the new normal and ok with them. They won't know any better because schools and parents don't or won't teach them what America it's really about. We, who know, will mostly be gone in 50 years or fighting a losing cause.


Could not agree more, look at what we accept now: our government going broke, but government wasting billions for nothing, all we do is shake our heads. Our president takes multi-million dollar vacations while telling us we need to give more. Our government giving billions of dollars to other countries while we go deeper into dept by the second. And look at what we've been groomed to accept from our police? The ones who were once suppose to work for us? How many times have you been passed on the highway by a speeding police, knowing the call they were on was to their favorite Mr. Donut? Except for the most extreme cases, we've allowed our law enforcement to become above the law. 
We're slowly giving up our freedom of speech, they are working to take our second admin. All of our rights of privacy are quickly going by the wayside, and innocent until proven guilty is turning into a fleeting thought. So yeah, I agree 50 years from now, if America is still here, it will be quite different, and our people will accept what they've been taught is normal.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Looking at the example of Rome. It would start to fall then "Crisis Leadership" would shore it up and it would get better. For a while, but they never addressed the core issues. They would layer on another level of bureaucracy and increase taxes to pay for it. Each succeeding cycle Rome rose not as high and fell a little further. Eventually an emperor living now in Ravena basically abandoned his subjects to their fate at the hands of barbarians because he would not give up any of his luxuries to pay the barbarians for their military service. Anyone see these dynamics in play?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

OK, since you asked.

A revival. That is what it will take.

I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father to which Jesus, my Lord and Savior, prayed. I do not hide this, although I am often a poor representative for Him. This God, the only true God, is the One to which the Declaration of Independence refers. He is the One who endowed us with certain liberties and the responsibilities that go along with them.

John Adams has been proved right. He said the constitution is wholly inadequate for anything but a religious (read Christian) people. Look around. Patrick Henry explained what would come next when he said, "It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."

Look around and you see a society that is without God, discipline, ethics, morals and principles. Right is now wrong and wrong is even glorified. Laziness is rewarded and debt the way to live like the rich. Entertainment is the most important thing, and freedom is not even understood, anymore. The life of a puppy is held in higher esteem by this degenerate nation than is the life of an unborn child.

Want to know how bad we have gotten? Christian missionary groups now come here to _reach_ out to the unsaved! Couple this with the fact that Putin chastised our government for assisting vicious, barbaric people who rip open and eat the organs from their dead enemy, and you can see where we now are.

We walk around waving flags and chanting "God Bless America" while God is sending us a lot of warnings that things other than blessings are going to fall on us if we do not turn from our wicked ways and honor Him, once again. Sickening, isn't it, that we demand God bless us, even though we want to follow the ways of the demented?

A revival.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Denton said:


> OK, since you asked.
> 
> A revival. That is what it will take.
> 
> ...


A most excellent post.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Thank you, sir.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

PrepConsultant said:


> We all agree the US is in a downhill spiral.. What do you think it is goin to take to make a change for the better?? Or do you think it has gone too far??? I mean realistically, we all talk about changing welfare and such. But it is going to have to be a drastic situation to make a turn for the better I believe..


Reduce the size scope and power of the federal government. Those who govern closest to the people govern best.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

It probably won't come as a revolution as we've seen in other countries. It will probably come very slowly. One family at a time. Finally saying enough is enough. When it comes it will probably be something like William Johnson wrote about in his ashes series. Two nations. One that believes in big government and one that believes in individual responsibility and the constitution. 

it probably won't be pretty and a whole lot will depend on what individual government employees decide. If they decide to stand by their oath then it might be fairly peaceful. If not it could be the bloodiest civil war the world has ever seen.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I have been taking a long hard look at the international events that are going on, watching the value of the dollar and the posturing of China and a few other countries and wondering how this is all connected or if it is just coincidence. Here is what I find interesting and possibly dangerous:


1. The USA is actively destabilizing the middle East.

2. The countries that we are working over are the same ones that are aligning with Russia and China to use other currency than the dollar for international trades.

3. The former USSR (I will use "Russia" in this discussion although that is not as accurate) is partnering with those countries for oil not based on the dollar. In effect supporting the discontinued use of the dollar as the world currency that it has been since the end of WWII.

4. We are more confrontational with North Korea than we have been since the treaty was signed after the Korean conflict.

5. China is backing away from Korea but still doing business with them in the Chinese currency - no dollars involved.

6. Russia is building underground manufacturing plants.

7. China is building a Pacific naval fleet.

8. The US federal government is restricting our constitutionally protected rights.

9. The president is posturing to sign the UN small arms treaty at the close of this congressional session.

10. The congress is sure to block the UN small arms treaty on constitutional grounds.

11. The US is continuing its nuclear reduction but China and Russia are not.

12. The US is not acting on evidence of cyber attacks or standing up for itself in any way to the other two powers - we are presenting ourselves as weak.

If I was a conspiracy nut I would try to connect the dots like so:

Russia and China are forming a partnership to out-flank the US economically.
China is building a Pacific navy and Russia is preparing their manufacturing facilities to make them hardened against attack or retaliation.
If the United Arab Republics gang up on Israel the US may (probably will) join in the battle or at least lend aid to Israel.
The Chinese and Russian governments can legally claim the USA is "bullying" in the Middle East again and launch a retaliatory nuclear attack against the bully (the USA) to stop "American aggression". 
The Israelis will use nukes to stop the aggression against them wiping out most of the United Arab Republic.
The feds will claim that we were caught off guard and did not have time to retaliate before our bases were hit and disabled. (fake)
This opens the door to get the UN involved as "our savior" so that the small arms treaty is put in place. This will effectively dis-arm the American public.
The UN, England, France, Germany and our other allies will join forces under the auspices of the UN to stop the Aggression of Russia and China but China will switch sides and join the NATO forces to remove the Russian threat.
That will disable Russia as a world power. With the US already hit and crippled China becomes the only super power left. 
We are all under the advisement of The UN and NATO and we have adopted the UN rights charter - losing most of our rights. We have been disarmed in the name of "national security" and the "new world order" begins.

What comes next is just a guess (as is all the rest) but since the nuclear might of the US was never really damaged and most of our modern war planes were out at sea and in foreign countries it takes just a month to get back to the readiness state instead of the years that China was planning, we are in a position to surprise the Chinese when they try to invade. We will deal a heavy blow to the Chinese mainland with a high altitude nuclear EMP attack and destroy their pacific fleet with a sneak air attack with our stealth fleet of aircraft. The destruction of the industrial centers and seaports will be accomplished with a few well placed nuclear devices. That leaves the US as the only global power, under the control of the UN, as the NATO world police force. Welcome to the fulfillment of the "new world order".

This is conjecture but it would do two things for the US and the world banking system. It would remove the national debt without anyone having to take responsibility for it - it might well collapse the economy of the US but the Fed can claim "it's not our fault".
It also brings socialism within reach of the US government so they actually will control the most powerful country in the world. Sweeping laws will put the feds in control of food production - and consumption, fuel production and consumption and virtually every facet of our lives.

The final blow to the constitution will be made in the emotions of a country that was bombed in a surprise attack and "unable" to strike back without the aid of the NATO forces and their "apportioned rights". Most of the country is stupid or ignorant enough to fall for it. Those small pockets of free thinkers won't be able to hold out against a military out of control so the United States will simply fade away into history or, and more likely history will be re-written to show that this is the way that the US has always been. "Long live the United Socialist Americas".

These events may just be coincidental - but I don't trust coincidents.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Wow Paul, you really gave this a lot of thought. I hope you're wrong, but it does make sense.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

About six months of gathering information and then putting it into a list and condensing it down to the biggest pieces of the puzzle. The resulting ideas are all conjecture - there is just no way for me to know why foreign countries are doing what they are doing. I do think China wants to be on top - they have made that very clear and Russia is definitely not embracing "democracy" and "freedom" so it stands to reason that they would work together. They still need a catalyst to act as a springboard and the Middle East is perfect. There will be very little damage to the US infrastructure in a military nuclear attack so that is the most likely attack mode preceding an invasion. China is well aware that they cannot fight the USA one on one and so is Russia. Together they stand a much better chance but their ideologies are too far apart for any real union between them. China, by turning against Russia in the end will come out as strong as the began and under the impression that the USA and Russia are both out of contention for the top seat. Thinking that America is down it is a great time to move against us so then we can be justified in wiping them out of the picture. That leaves the USA in top position but still bankrupt except that the countries we own debt to are now gone. With the UN policies governing the USA the people are out of choices. It will be fight or live as slaves. Some will fight but look at the elections to see what the percentages are..... not good.


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## RebellionOfThought (Jul 5, 2013)

I really think that the only thing that can pull us out of our current economic state is another World War


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

RebellionOfThought said:


> I really think that the only thing that can pull us out of our current economic state is another World War


The end of the planet certainly would change the current economic state.
Things aren't as simple as the last world war where WE were the only ones with nuclear weapons.
I think it was Einstien that said he wasn't sure what the Third World War would be fought with, but the Fourth World War would be fought with stones.


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## exmilitary (Jun 17, 2013)

Until peace on earth is established things might get worse.
Every country on the plant has its own set of problems. 
The question is have we gone to far or not, I don't know. 
Only time will tell.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

RebellionOfThought said:


> I really think that the only thing that can pull us out of our current economic state is another World War


History proves you to be very correct. I would not doubt this as an alternative with the liberal fascists. Just look at Woodrow wilson and it becomes clear.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

There was a story, obviously fiction, about a new US civil war. It was a short story but well written and thought out. It was extremely plausible. I'm trying to find it again as it was over a year ago when I read it. If I can find it I'll posit the link. If anyone knows it or remembers it, please do likewise.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

It isn't war that pulled us out of economic problems, but the agreements after the wars. In itself, war is hugely expensive. Matter of fact, it is what has us in such a bind, now.

Don't expect WWIII to be our economic salvation. Expect We, The People, to lose.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Denton said:


> It isn't war that pulled us out of economic problems, but the agreements after the wars. In itself, war is hugely expensive. Matter of fact, it is what has us in such a bind, now.
> 
> Don't expect WWIII to be our economic salvation. Expect We, The People, to lose.


I didn't press the like button because I didn't like that truth. I cannot deny however it looks feels and sounds like the truth.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

The problem with going to war is that we are already at war and have been for some time. If I were to make an analogy of the situation, it's like a prize fight where the champion faces a fresh opponent every round.


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