# How does one prepare for this as a non-active observer?



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

*This thread is part of the "Coming Civil War" group of threads.
Please see the Primer/Premise thread --> HERE <-- for context and links to other related topics.*

Most of the country will have no idea this is coming. Those that do may not wish to get involved. Passed civil wars saw most of the in-country people not participating. That will be the normal state for most folks.
So, how can you ready yourself to deal with the new environment around you?
Will you open your home as a refuge? This could invite attack, but could give you a way to help that doesn't involve harming others. This was common during the first civil war, with plantation homes turning into makeshift infirmaries.
For those who choose not to fight, if your home were to be overrun, what is your plan of escape?
This isn't a question for those who will stand to defend their homes. This is for those who are overwhelmed and unprepared to defend or fight back. Again, most of the country will fall into this category.

Since we're preppers, and most of us have committed to defending our property at the very least, this isn't really a question for us.
But it's an exercise to think about nonetheless. Think of all of your family members who are too naive to think this could happen. Think of your neighbors who scoff every time you mention anything that would lift the veil on their happy world of ignorance.
What kind of advice can WE assemble that will help THEM?
A one-page "How to get out of Dodge" guide, or something similar.
When the reality finally hits, and there's no time left to get ready, they will come knocking. What can we tell them or give them that will help? Weapons are likely out of the question. Ration handouts will be a case by case basis. But advice? Advice is free and doesn't cost the giver much time if it's already formulated.

Wars are fought by a minority of the population. The majority, due to shear numbers, will still be around doing little to nothing to help the effort. We need a plan for how to use them, or how to get them out of the way.
Maybe city evacuation strategies. Labor projects to prepare encampments or fortify positions by changing the land or building blockades and barriers. Some will want to help, but will have no mind of their own to do so, and will be looking for guidance.

Writing them off is foolish.
Saying "sorry, you're screwed" and slamming the door when they come knocking is a sure-fire way to get your house reported to whoever they can find that will entice them for information. Bribes of food or protection loosen lips like little else. We can't just coldly turn them away. That only creates another enemy.
Giving them ANYTHING will be seen as helpful and good-intentioned. It doesn't have to be much. Just good advice and a pep talk can do wonders for people who are panicking and unsure of what to do next. Something tangible can solidify this feeling further.

How can a "conscientious objector" prepare for this?
For the rest, how do WE calm the sheep and get them to safety or make them useful?


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

At age 72 I’m sure not able to be out humpin’ the boonies.
I feel pretty sure there will be open warfare. I’m not blind.

But, we live so far away from any urban/suburban areas I think the chaos will flow past us.
I plan to stay inside our perimeter, and will defend against single or pairs of criminals.
A small platoon size group will cause us to discretely slip away.


----------



## JustAnotherNut (Feb 27, 2017)

I think it would depend on everyone's particulars.....location/distance from full on fighting and even neighbors and the neighbors willingness to either actively participate or as support to them....or not at all. 

In my case, I'm far enough away from the big city but close enough to 'town' and major thoroughfares that anything going on here is something of a crap shoot. If the crime activity of the last year has been any indication of what may come....we may be able to dodge the worst of it......as in this little neighborhood has been like being in the eye of a tornado or hurricane. Normal, peaceful, quiet & calm, while the craziness has happened all around us. While this would be my hope to continue, I don't expect it. 

I would like to be able to get everyone (both neighbors and family/friends) together to discuss this very topic and make plans of action if necessary, to get everyone on the same page.....or find out who won't. But as long as it's not officially war, and any current troubles are 'somewhere out there'.....any attempts of me rounding everyone up to circle the wagons is viewed as chicken little screaming the sky is falling, and I'd be wasting my time. Went thru this with #1 and stepdaughter earlier this year but they both seem to think this is just a bump in the road and life will get back to normal....any day now. 

All I can do, is have some to share.....food, garden seeds, chickens/eggs, basic first aid, advice. I had started some files a while back of basic instructions on several topics, but I don't have a printer and libraries are still closed as far as I know, to get multiple copies for handing out. 

No, I don't want to fight & not even sure if I could, other than defend mine if necessary.....but I also don't want to ignore it. I'd rather do what I can, in whatever manner I'm able, to help


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Well, my plan is to defend as you guys know. I have a BOL but it's a last resort no other choice situation and I'll make that decision based on circumstances. I live in the forth largest city in the country so I would expect this to be a hot area when it goes off. I am hoping to stay out of the fray as long as possible though and will attempt to organize like minded neighbors, a few of which I have already scouted. I am in a good area, as good as can be expected in a city, and I am on the outskirts and can be countryside in 10 or 15 minutes. 

As for passers by, it will be situational of course. I may share some little things without tipping them off to my actual storage, give them some comfort, a blanket maybe, water, before telling them to move on. Others May get shot without warning. (Do not show up at my door with nose rings and body tattoos! :tango_face_grin

It's going to be a shit show as far as telling who is who and which side they are on. Many will be on their side only. I don't plan to engage unless the shit show visits my doorstep, my neighborhood. At 21 was lean mean and ready for a fight but at 61 I'm a bit old to play Rambo so I'll oblige them to come to me. Part of being prepared is wrapping our head around the idea that it will get mean and nasty, best be making your peace with that idea now.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> At age 72 I'm sure not able to be out humpin' the boonies.
> I feel pretty sure there will be open warfare. I'm not blind.
> 
> But, we live so far away from any urban/suburban areas I think the chaos will flow past us.
> ...


 Long range equipment. Range cards range markers.


----------



## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

Judging by some of the questions some of my relatives have started asking me they are beginning to think I might not be a paranoid nut job after all. Questions about water supply, food storage, and purchasing guns and ammunition. I’ve hunted most of my life, so most know I own some guns, but no one but my sons know how many and how much ammo I have, and I’m not sure even they do. There have been a few guns that have followed me home that my wife doesn’t know about. If you are just now thinking about guns and ammunition, good luck. You can still find some guns, especially if you have the money. On ammunition, if you can find it, the prices are going through the roof. As far as food I usually recommend dried beans and rice as primary because of their shelf life, and build from there. As for feeding others, it may be dependent on the person and what they bring to the game. I may have enough to feed and arm additional people but they would have to be someone with a skill set and someone I could trust, especially trust, which means I probably already know them and know them well. I can see the advantage of working with the neighbors but not support them. I really hope I’m wrong, but I think there are some hard times coming.


----------



## Murdock67 (Sep 26, 2020)

Well I hope to keep a low profile and live by the fact that when there is no law, all crime will have but one punishment.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Prepare for major shortages of everything as transportation will stop. If you need it, stock up on it.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Primary concern for most is Real Estate.... LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.. If one truly believes it is coming in the next 2-6 months, that is winter here. I do not expect much to be happening on our home front. We have a compound here of sorts. 3 families in 3 houses on the farmstead. Of the 3 families, mine is the only one prepped. Knowing this, I am prepared to arm them as needed.

As for surrounding neighbors, some I would trust with my life and arm them if need be. Only thing lacking in these parts is bodies for patrol/defense 24-7 and wood for the winter.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Two feet of snow and 10 below BLM leaving town heading south and west. Winter is a pretty good defense . It kind of screwed up Hitlers plans in Russia. I think ND is safe. BLM does not even know it is a state.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Two feet of snow and 10 below BLM leaving town heading south and west. Winter is a pretty good defense . It kind of screwed up Hitlers plans in Russia. There is a reason only about 800,000 living there. Nice place but it can be hard on a lot of people.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Long range equipment. Range cards range markers.


We live in a heavily wooded area.
Any visuals beyond 50-75 yards would only be along a road.


----------



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

Range markers.. you been looking over my shoulder? I have those down my road out to 500m.. road is 600m. 

I doubt anyone will knock on our door as they’d have to get by the gates and fencing. Bu I would and with storms have provided various comfort for folks arou us. I’d do it again. 

Too old and lack experience if a real civil war broke out so I’d defend locally and if asked, offer advice.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Smitty901 said:


> Two feet of snow and 10 below BLM leaving town heading south and west. Winter is a pretty good defense . It kind of screwed up Hitlers plans in Russia. I think ND is safe. BLM does not even know it is a state.


counting on it... They can have Fargo...


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Piratesailor said:


> Range markers.. you been looking over my shoulder? I have those down my road out to 500m.. road is 600m.
> 
> I doubt anyone will knock on our door as they'd have to get by the gates and fencing. Bu I would and with storms have provided various comfort for folks arou us. I'd do it again.
> 
> Too old and lack experience if a real civil war broke out so I'd defend locally and if asked, offer advice.


 I had this place staked for 30 years . What many fail to understand is long range shots 500 and up yards go much better when shooter knows everything. Distance wind. Practiced shots in the same lanes of fire. This is why soldiers hit 500 yards and more on the range at qual and miss in the real world.


----------



## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

My plan for escape is pretty simple. It’s a 7 mile hike to the river thru unincorporated farm lands and homes are easy to avoid. Either as the sun goes down or has just come up I prefer to do it in the light as there are many pitfalls on the route. I’ve walked it three times now each a little different and my wife did it once with me. Once at the river it’s just a mile pt 5 down stream to the docks where our boat is, and it’s always been my bug out vehicle and is prepped, ready to sail or motor if needed into the Atlantic preferably at night.


----------



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

stowlin said:


> My plan for escape is pretty simple. It's a 7 mile hike to the river thru unincorporated farm lands and homes are easy to avoid. Either as the sun goes down or has just come up I prefer to do it in the light as there are many pitfalls on the route. I've walked it three times now each a little different and my wife did it once with me. Once at the river it's just a mile pt 5 down stream to the docks where our boat is, and it's always been my bug out vehicle and is prepped, ready to sail or motor if needed into the Atlantic preferably at night.


Our bug out of last resort I'd our boat. It's always ready to go too. But we'd have to have the zombie Apocalypse for that.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> We live in a heavily wooded area.
> Any visuals beyond 50-75 yards would only be along a road.


 Then work on getting a good sight picture fast and shoot. Prefect use of a good reddot.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Then work on getting a good sight picture fast and shoot. Prefect use of a good reddot.


A red dot is just something else to go wrong. 
For snap shooting less than 100 yards I prefer open iron sights, no rear aperture.
AK sights are perfect.
Although in training I was pretty dang good with an M14.

Fire and movement is the key. Fixed defenses are easy to overcome.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> A red dot is just something else to go wrong.
> For snap shooting less than 100 yards I prefer open iron sights, no rear aperture.
> AK sights are perfect.
> Although in training I was pretty dang good with an M14.
> ...


His point was fast and accurate shooting. A red dot is indeed perfect for this.
A good one is damn near indestructible.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> His point was fast and accurate shooting. A red dot is indeed perfect for this.
> A good one is damn near indestructible.


Until the battery dies, that is.

Open irons for close work, rear aperture for hundreds of yards.
I practice marksmanship.

Just my opinion.
Yours is obviously different. And that's OK. As Patton said, if everyone is thinking the same, then someone isn't thinking.

I do have optics on a 22 magnum varmint rifle, and one 30-06, for precision work.
My fighting rifles all wear irons, the ones that were installed at the factory.
If I ever have to shoot a human, it will be 50 yards or less.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Until the battery dies, that is.
> 
> Open irons for close work, rear aperture for hundreds of yards.
> I practice marksmanship.
> ...


 Battery in cheap ones now last 50,000 hours. In good ones 3-8 years if never shut off.


----------



## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

AK sights are perfect.

Are you shitting me? Such a short sight radius. I put tech sights on my sks with a peep. Maybe you have younger eyes than me.

https://www.tech-sights.com/

If I ever have to shoot a human, it will be 50 yards or less.

I concede this fact.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Until the battery dies, that is.
> 
> Open irons for close work, rear aperture for hundreds of yards.
> I practice marksmanship.
> ...


I would strongly encourage another look at modern optics.
The concern over battery life is no longer valid. Years of life without ever turning off, and even options that will recharge themselves via solar, are just some of the advancements.
Bump up to an ACOG and you don't even need a battery.

Irons are good backups nowadays, but they are a poor choice as a primary.
A red dot for targets inside 50yds will be hands-down faster than any set of irons with minimal training, especially with multiple approaching targets.


----------



## Btp2332 (Sep 23, 2020)

Well said Kauboy. I have put some beatings on some Vortex, Aimpoints, and Eotechs with no failures. Not saying any of those should be in somebody’s top 5 picks just speaking for what I have run and currently run. 

Stay safe everybody.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

1skrewsloose said:


> AK sights are perfect.
> 
> Are you shitting me? Such a short sight radius. I put tech sights on my sks with a peep. Maybe you have younger eyes than me.
> 
> ...


I am 72.
I was trained in marksmanship by the US Army.
The only shooting aid I use is a sling.

I guess for those who haven't had hundreds of hours on an Army or Marine range, some "helpers" would no doubt be good.


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Irons are good backups nowadays, but they are a poor choice as a primary.
> A red dot for targets inside 50yds will be hands-down faster than any set of irons with minimal training, especially with multiple approaching targets.


"Minimal training ". I will concede red dots would be good in that scenario.
1968 marksmanship training in the Army included hours of firing at man shaped targets that would randomly and suddenly pop up at ranges from 25 meters to 500 meters. This trained your eyes and brain for very fast target aquisition. 
We fired from all positions- standing, kneeling, sitting, prone, and foxhole.
All firing was done using a plain cotton web sling. Over and over we would shoulder the rifle, assume the "combat sling" and fire - in 1/10th the time it took you to read that sentence.

Our rifles were the M14, and on qualification day I scored Expert.
I am quite confident in my ability.


----------



## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> "Minimal training ". I will concede red dots would be good in that scenario.
> 1968 marksmanship training in the Army included hours of firing at man shaped targets that would randomly and suddenly pop up at ranges from 25 meters to 500 meters. This trained your eyes and brain for very fast target aquisition.
> We fired from all positions- standing, kneeling, sitting, prone, and foxhole.
> All firing was done using a plain cotton web sling. Over and over we would shoulder the rifle, assume the "combat sling" and fire - in 1/10th the time it took you to read that sentence.
> ...


And I'd never question it.
A red dot would only make you better.
:tango_face_wink:


----------



## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

Piratesailor said:


> Our bug out of last resort I'd our boat. It's always ready to go too. But we'd have to have the zombie Apocalypse for that.


Interestingly it's been our primary for over ten years with the minor exception of getting to the boat. When we lived in SF our condo was 8 blocks to the marina and after much planning I realized the direct route was the fastest and thus the safest since time would be of the essence in such an urban environment. Now I'm in such a rural I've planned and studied getting to the marina with out using roads at all.

The boat is clearly our best choice but I'm fully aware of its severe limitations, no speed, not much security but I can run silent and run at night.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Since I'm not ex-military and I'm getting old, they eyes are not as good as they used to be. I got several Eotech's. The problem I found after I bought them is there are times I can't see the red dot. I'm also partially colorblind so in bright light and a very light target, no dot. So I just switched to green dots. Now I have a couple of Eotech's for trade at some point.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

" non-active observer" Translates to victim in plain English. If you think you are going to just sit on the side and watch. You are wrong .


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

1skrewsloose said:


> AK sights are perfect.
> 
> Are you shitting me? Such a short sight radius. I put tech sights on my sks with a peep. Maybe you have younger eyes than me.
> 
> ...


 50 yards . I got this. If I let them get with in 50 yards the dog will eat them.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I am 72.
> I was trained in marksmanship by the US Army.
> The only shooting aid I use is a sling.
> 
> I guess for those who haven't had hundreds of hours on an Army or Marine range, some "helpers" would no doubt be good.


 With all respect. The US Army , Marines had an awaking. It was started by AIMPOINT. It was one thing to sight in on 1 target at hit it with iron ( big paper ones). But hit 2-4 targets in the same amount of time was a game changer the redot allowed that. It did not take long and M68 was a standard every rifleman issue item for good reason. Hits on target and number of hits in short time went way up . Even those of us that were trained with iron only were won over quickly.
Picture this. With a good reddot once you learn to use it. You can cover the objective lens and still hit your target. Hard to imagine until you do it . All about how your eyes work. Reddot is not a scope it is a sight. Once trained there is no sitting there trying to line up the sight picture . Dot on target shoot regardless of where you see the dot in the sight your training and eyes do the work. Fast.
As mention the ACOG is amazing. It requires training. Trained shooters do make 800 meter shots with it on an M4.
On transition range the red dot beats the Iron sights every time. hands down. They gave up that debate a long time ago.

M68 became a standard issue item in 2000 and grew from there . 1st issues were short lived battery, updated to take AA. Next generation much long battery life cleared dot. Aimpoint pro 3 years on battery if you never shut it off Now we are at 8 year battery like on Aimpoint COM4. The world is not frozen in time it moves on . All of the good ones have IR settings for use with night vision . And iron sights still work with them. 
Night vision is also standard issue now.


----------



## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

stowlin said:


> Interestingly it's been our primary for over ten years with the minor exception of getting to the boat. When we lived in SF our condo was 8 blocks to the marina and after much planning I realized the direct route was the fastest and thus the safest since time would be of the essence in such an urban environment. Now I'm in such a rural I've planned and studied getting to the marina with out using roads at all.
> 
> The boat is clearly our best choice but I'm fully aware of its severe limitations, no speed, not much security but I can run silent and run at night.


Definitely last resort for us. Running at night and silent is key but the question for us would "where would we go". If it's to escape civil war in the US that has become the zombie apocalypse then I think many countries would close their borders to US citizens. I do have dual nationality with Ireland so that might be a solution but it's always a crap shoot.

In my area I dion't think we'll have the apocalypse happen and I don't think it will be for the rest of the US or world either but hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Speaking of boats.. need to go do a bit of work on mine. Had the teak decks replaced (glassed) and new water tanks (2 at 100gal each). Need to finish up the projects!


----------

