# The Pagan Christmas tree



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

So I am sitting here drinking a coffee while the wife and 2 boys put up the artificial tree. This is sort of our tradition - Wife and I have a debate about the tree and historically where it comes from...

AND then she puts it up by herself with help from the boys... I lend moral support and will put things under the tree but overall I view the holiday as a pagan event...although I am pro Saint Nicholas if we would just go back to celebrating his day on the 6th of Dec.

And Jesus was not born on Dec 25th...

Merry Christmas


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Bah humbug to you too.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

You tell 'em, MrsInor. Maybe it did spring up to make the pagans feel better by incorporating their "Saturnalia" into the Christian religious events and celebrations. But what difference does it make now after all these years. It's like saying we shouldn't honor the American flag because they constantly change it from the original with 13 stars. Just MHO. You are allowed to feel anyway you want. I don't mean this to be insulting, especially at this time of the year.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We have always explained from day One what Christmas is to the kids they never in their life had any illusions . It never harmed them and they played the silly Santa game .
It does not madder when we remember Jesus birth as long as we do. That we drive home more than one day a year.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I do feel sad the way Christmas has been commercialized to the ninth degree, however. But I think that is another subject for another thread.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

My kids know who Jesus is, We pray before meals...I think you would have to look hard to find a more conservative Christian home...

I will take the kids to see Santa, Buys gifts, etc... I will not help put up a Tree...

Hey, I said "Merry Christmas."


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

here ya go


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

Sounds like you might just hate, for the sake of hating. Christmas is the most special time of year, where we are reminded of, and celebrate, the innocence of children, joy of purity, and goodwill to men and women of the world.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm Orthodox, we follow a different calendar and it really doesn't matter when we choose to celebrate Christmas, as long as we remember the reason.

Re Christmas tree: definitely pagan but we love it


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

The cats out of the bag at our house...I just had to explain that there isn't a Santa Claus to my son. =(He told me he wanted the truth, so I told him. I think I'm more upset about it than he is. My baby is growing up!! I'll never get these innocent years back.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

The modern Christmas tree is a Lutheran thing, not a pagan thing.



> Germany is credited with starting the Christmas tree tradition as we now know it in the 16th century when devout Christians brought decorated trees into their homes. Some built Christmas pyramids of wood and decorated them with evergreens and candles if wood was scarce. It is a widely held belief that Martin Luther, the 16th-century Protestant reformer, first added lighted candles to a tree. Walking toward his home one winter evening, composing a sermon, he was awed by the brilliance of stars twinkling amidst evergreens. To recapture the scene for his family, he erected a tree in the main room and wired its branches with lighted candles.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Don't buy your tree from a Pagan, problem solved. I buy mine directly from Jesus, up on the corner.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

dannydefense said:


> Don't buy your tree from a Pagan, problem solved. I buy mine directly from Jesus, up on the corner.


Is he here legally?


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

In my culture, it's Father Frost and his grand-daughter, Snegurochka (The Snow Maiden) and the kids get a tiny bag of candy, no other presents and we go to church on midnight to celebrate Jesus


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Fine looking Father Frost and Snow Maiden grand daughter. What is alleged to have happened to her parents? How about Mama Frost? Thanks.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

bigwheel said:


> How about Mama Frost? Thanks.


She was a cold-hearted bitch that one!


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> Fine looking Father Frost and Snow Maiden grand daughter. What is alleged to have happened to her parents? How about Mama Frost? Thanks.


Really sweet story, variations and explanation Snegurochka ? Russiapedia Of Russian origin


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

sparkyprep said:


> Sounds like you might just hate, for the sake of hating.
> Christmas is the most special time of year, where we are reminded of, and celebrate, the innocence of children, joy of purity, and goodwill to men and women of the world.


*Christmas is the most special time of year* - I prefer Easter

*where we are reminded of, and celebrate, the innocence of children, joy of purity, and goodwill to men and women of the world.* - Wow, whats next a call for a group hug and heading to the airport to hand out flowers and get donations.

I do not hate - I am firmly convinced that certain pagan practices have entered into the church and the followers home. some are more harmful then others Christmas is not really a harmful event...but it is a gateway holiday....lol - notice the drug reference there...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I celebrate the birth of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, each and every day of the year.
He is the only reason I am here today, and I am grateful.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not hate - I am firmly convinced that certain pagan practices have entered into the church and the followers home. some are more harmful then others Christmas is not really a harmful event...but it is a gateway holiday....lol - notice the drug reference there...


You truly believe that? Funny thing, my family put up a Christmas tree every year, and I had absolutely no sudden urges to go out and join a witch's circle.

I think it's better to teach our youth that you aren't forced into a particular way of thinking simply by participation in a derived activity. That leads to irrational fear, and we can see what irrational fear of the unknown has done to zealous and under informed members of every religion, everywhere, ever.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Inor said:


> The modern Christmas tree is a Lutheran thing, not a pagan thing.


I like the way you use the term MODERN to make it seem like the practice started with Luther.

Lets be honest - please - the tree was originally a YULE tree and was centered around the solar year....


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I stopped participating in the physical act of putting up the tree a few years ago.

One Christmas I was wrestling with the tree which seem to get heavier and heavier and I looked over at the family. Son 1 was standing there scratching his butt and Son 2 was spitting in the grass or picking his nose or some such nonsense. Regardless, they both were athletes, lifted weights and were strong so I called a family meeting and set policy.

I decreed that point forward, I would sit in my chair and supervise them putting the tree up while Bing Crosby or some festive music played on the radio. After the tree was secured, Mrs Slippy and I would hang the ornaments and remember the places that we bought the ornaments....many of them on family vacations.

Mrs Slippy counter-decreed that the Saturday after Thanksgiving would be the day the Christmas Tree would be put up in the Slippy house.

Here is this years model that we put up yesterday. Son 2's girlfriend got to hang the Angel. The house is quiet now, both sons gone back to their lives and we get to remember them putting the tree up for the next month or so.

Happy Christmas everyone!
View attachment 8403


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

The only thing I dislike about modern Christmas is embarrassingly-garish consumerism, there is no need for it.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Slippy, it's beautiful, we're setting up ours tonight


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> You truly believe that? Funny thing, my family put up a Christmas tree every year, and I had absolutely no sudden urges to go out and join a witch's circle.
> 
> I think it's better to teach our youth that you aren't forced into a particular way of thinking simply by participation in a derived activity. That leads to irrational fear, and we can see what irrational fear of the unknown has done to zealous and under informed members of every religion, everywhere, ever.


what the heck are you talking about!!!! can you explain >>I think it's better to teach our youth that you aren't forced into a particular way of thinking simply by participation in a derived activity.<< that sentence was more confusing then any i have read in awhile....

Yes I think that some pagan practices in the churches. I prefer to teach my kids about what is true and right and correct. Not sure how teaching truth lines up with irrational fears. And you comparing my view of a Christmas tree to muslim extremist leads me to think you are a little strange, odd, lack common sense, or have a major problem with Christians, It sort of makes me sad for you...really

I am glad you have no urge to join a witch circle. If you are a follower of Christ, I would encourage you to pick up the book...PAGAN CHRISTIANITY


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Maine-Marine,

I think you're in need of a big ole hug today...







!

Slip



Maine-Marine said:


> what the heck are you talking about!!!! can you explain >>I think it's better to teach our youth that you aren't forced into a particular way of thinking simply by participation in a derived activity.<< that sentence was more confusing then any i have read in awhile....
> 
> Yes I think that some pagan practices in the churches. I prefer to teach my kids about what is true and right and correct. Not sure how teaching truth lines up with irrational fears. And you comparing my view of a Christmas tree to muslim extremist leads me to think you are a little strange, odd, lack common sense, or have a major problem with Christians, It sort of makes me sad for you...really
> 
> I am glad you have no urge to join a witch circle. If you are a follower of Christ, I would encourage you to pick up the book...PAGAN CHRISTIANITY


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Should you put a "Christmas Tree" in your home? Probably not. It does have pagan origins. The concern was that the people would learn the pagan ways (again) and turn away from God. 

Jeremiah 10:1-5
1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

However, as long as you do not worship the tree or try to connect it as some kind of aid to worship, you are probably OK. 
Jesus was born in late December, though we cannot state for sure it was the 25th.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Maine-Marine,
> 
> I think you're in need of a big ole hug today...
> 
> ...


I do not swing that way but since its YOU.. I guess I could go for a LITTLE HUG


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Boss Dog said:


> Jesus was born in late December, though we cannot state for sure it was the 25th.


There were shepherds in the field...ask yourself - would there have been shepherds in the field in December in Bethlehem?

and based on the scriptural evidence, a case can be made that Jesus Christ was born on the 15th day of the month of Tishri, on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, which corresponds to the September - October time frame of our present calendar!


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> what the heck are you talking about!!!! can you explain >>I think it's better to teach our youth that you aren't forced into a particular way of thinking simply by participation in a derived activity.<< that sentence was more confusing then any i have read in awhile....
> 
> Yes I think that some pagan practices in the churches. I prefer to teach my kids about what is true and right and correct. Not sure how teaching truth lines up with irrational fears. And you comparing my view of a Christmas tree to muslim extremist leads me to think you are a little strange, odd, lack common sense, or have a major problem with Christians, It sort of makes me sad for you...really
> 
> I am glad you have no urge to join a witch circle. If you are a follower of Christ, I would encourage you to pick up the book...PAGAN CHRISTIANITY


Could you quote the part where I compared your view of a Christmes tree to muslim extremists? I don't even remember thinking of muslims during that post.

If you're going to feel sad for me (why thank you, by the way) you may at least do it for valid reasons.


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

We decorate our tree Thanksgiving evening.
I put the giant thing together in the morning and my wife, kids, and grand kids decorate it that night.
Its become a family tradition filled with love, laughter, memories, and a few adult beverages.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Everything from the tree to the balls adorning it has pagan roots. Sure, it was brought into the church and Christian symbolism was attached to it, but was it necessary, and is it still necessary, today? For that matter, it isn't just the tree, but Christmas as a whole that is a pagan festival, adorned with Christian symbolism and that has been brought into the church.

This makes it really hard to argue with those who declare Christmas to have many meanings, none of which mention a thing about Jesus, such as innocence, good will toward man, etc.; all of which are nice but not the same as salvation or the remembrance of the One who brought it.

Having said that, allow me to remind those of us who are not into this Christmas thing for reasons stated, Paul did mention something about not throwing rocks at those who observe these sort of festivals. We shouldn't come down on them for it. After all, they are doing it out of innocence and with good intention, right?


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Perhaps it is time for a bacon sammich.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MrsInor said:


> Perhaps it is time for a bacon sammich.


Let us now delve into the origins of the bacon sandwich, shall we?


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Denton said:


> Let us now delve into the origins of the bacon sandwich, shall we?


Or not.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> There were shepherds in the field...ask yourself - would there have been shepherds in the field in December in Bethlehem?


Do you think sheep disappear in Winter time?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

MrsInor said:


> Perhaps it is time for a bacon sammich.


And some more hugs!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MrsInor said:


> Or not.


Oh, don't be afraid of discussing the glorious history of the bacon sandwich; a magical meal where the bark of the bacon tree is the center of attention.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

TorontoGal said:


> Do you think sheep disappear in Winter time?


This is why you're my favorite Canadian.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

TorontoGal said:


> Do you think sheep disappear in Winter time?


good question...no..but the shepherds in Palestine do not "abide in the fields" during the winter season because of the extreme, cold temperatures. The shepherds always bring their flocks in from the mountain slopes and fields no later than October 15th!.

I am sure there are folks here they can explain winter versus summer pastures.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

dannydefense said:


> Could you quote the part where I compared your view of a Christmes tree to muslim extremists?


read what you wrote... Not sure what you were implying, but I inferred Muslim extremist....


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

dannydefense said:


> This is why you're my favorite Canadian.


He Shoots,He Scores ::clapping::

Keep Your Head Up, And Your Stick On The Ice.
And good things will happen.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> I like the way you use the term MODERN to make it seem like the practice started with Luther.
> 
> Lets be honest - please - the tree was originally a YULE tree and was centered around the solar year....


Since your wife and kids did the tree this year, are you just lamenting the fact that you missed the annual argument that every married couple gets into about "it's not straight"?

I am sure your wife still loves you even if she did not tell you that you put the tree up wrong this year.


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## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

History of christmas in america (i love this time of year)



An overview:
1600's: The Puritans made it illegal to mention St. Nicolas' name. People were not allowed to exchange gifts, light a candle, or sing Christmas carols.
17th century: Dutch immigrants brought with them the legend of Sinter Klaas.
1773: Santa first appeared in the media as St. A Claus.
1804: The New York Historical Society was founded with St. Nicolas as its patron saint. Its members engaged in the Dutch practice of gift-giving at Christmas. 
1809: Washington Irving, writing under the pseudonym Diedrich Knickerbocker, included Saint Nicolas in his book "A History of New York." Nicolas is described as riding into town on a horse.
1812: Irving, revised his book to include Nicolas riding over the trees in a wagon.
1821: William Gilley printed a poem about "Santeclaus" who was dressed in fur and drove a sleigh drawn by a single reindeer.
1822: Dentist Clement Clarke Moore is believed by many to have written a poem "An Account of a Visit from Saint Nicolas," which became better known as "The Night before Christmas." Santa is portrayed as an elf with a miniature sleigh equipped with eight reindeer which are named in the poem as Blitzem, Comet, Cupid, Dancer, Dasher, Donder, Prancer, and Vixen. Others attribute the poem to a contemporary, Henry Livingston, Jr. Two have since been renamed Donner and Blitzen.
1841: J.W. Parkinson, a Philadelphia merchant, hired a man to dress up in a "Criscringle" outfit and climb the chimney of his store.
1863: Illustrator Thomas Nast created images of Santa for the Christmas editions of Harper's Magazine. These continued through the 1890's.
1860s: President Abraham Lincoln asked Nast to create a drawing of Santa with some Union soldiers. This image of Santa supporting the enemy had a demoralizing influence on the Confederate army -- an early example of psychological warfare.
1897: Francis P Church, Editor of the New York Sun, wrote an editorial in response to a letter from an eight year-old girl, Virginia O'Hanlon. She had written the paper asking whether there really was a Santa Claus. It has become known as the "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" letter. 4
1920's: The image of Santa had been standardized to portray a bearded, over-weight, jolly man dressed in a red suit with white trim. 5
1931: Haddon Sundblom, illustrator for The Coca-Cola ™ company drew a series of Santa images in their Christmas advertisements until 1964. The company holds the trademark for the Coca-Cola Santa design. Christmas ads including Santa continue to the present day.
1939 Copywriter Robert L. May of the Montgomery Ward Company created a poem about Rudolph, the ninth reindeer. May had been "often taunted as a child for being shy, small and slight." He created an ostracized reindeer with a shiny red nose who became a hero one foggy Christmas eve. Santa was part-way through deliveries when the visibility started to degenerate. Santa added Rudolph to his team of reindeer to help illuminate the path. A copy of the poem was given free to Montgomery Ward customers. 6
1949: Johnny Marks wrote the song "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer." Rudolph was relocated to the North Pole where he was initially rejected by the other reindeer who wouldn't let him play in their reindeer games because of his strange looking nose. The song was recorded by Gene Autry and became his all-time best seller. Next to "White Christmas" it is the most popular song of all time. 
1993: An urban folk tale began to circulate about a Japanese department store displaying a life-sized Santa Claus being crucified on a cross. It never happened.
1997: Artist Robert Cenedella drew a painting of a crucified Santa Claus. It was displayed in the window of the New York's Art Students League and received intense criticism from some religious groups. His drawing was a protest. He attempted to show how Santa Claus had replaced Jesus Christ as the most important personality at Christmas time. 7


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Ladies and gentleman, I offer this for your consideration.

If this little melody doesn't put a bounce in your step...


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> good question...no..but the shepherds in Palestine do not "abide in the fields" during the winter season because of the extreme, cold temperatures. The shepherds always bring their flocks in from the mountain slopes and fields no later than October 15th!.
> 
> I am sure there are folks here they can explain winter versus summer pastures.


My family has been shepherding for 200-300 years... Same pastures any season, stay close to home, the animals need exercise but them again we're not from Middle East.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

It takes me about 5 minutes to set up our tree, including getting it out of my shed.
It belonged to my late Mom, is 18" tall and made of ceramic. There are little colored plastic "bulbs" that are lit by a light bulb inside.
Get out of shed, take out of box, plug in, sit back.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

December 25 was the day that ancient Romans celebrated the birth of the pagan god mithras aka sol invictus. At the closing of the saturnalia (sp) festival. 

Many theologians and historians have deducted that Jesus was born at a different time...

That said, I do love the holidays. It is a time for friends and family and joy. I especially love the food! I do not believe that there is any paganism left in this day and age. Maybe somewhere else in the world but not America.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Danm said:


> History of christmas in america (i love this time of year)
> 
> An overview:
> 1600's: The Puritans made it illegal to mention St. Nicolas' name. People were not allowed to exchange gifts, light a candle, or sing Christmas carols.
> ...


Know we have the

[video]https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=rust+and+smoke+the+heater's+broke&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35[/video]


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Here's Dashing Thru The Snow




Better


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Lol! at da yooper Chevrolet!


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

Well for one, Christmas is the 25th, regardless of your belief. it has been that way for 44 years. If you want to get all cynical and drudge things up. I will drudge up the chainsaw, and you will lose.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)




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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)




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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)




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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

sparkyprep said:


>


Do you think those young ladies are sisters?

As I recall Saint Patrick's day was originally a pagan holiday. Can't do away with the drinking. Also I believe easter was originally a date of a solstice.

Canadian Police Chase:


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

James m said:


> Canadian Police Chase:


hahaha


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## TxBorderCop (Nov 19, 2012)

You guys are bad. This was the FIRST year I did not set up the tree. My son, Daniel Shea, set it up for me. I had to "fluff" the branches to make the artificial tree look as lifelike as possible. I cannot have a real tree as I am allergic to evergreens, which is most of the bloody trees here, LOL.

We will hang the ornaments after I hang all the lights on my days off (this week they are Tuesday and Wednesday). I like to call the tree my Homage to Hallmark as we have every SINGLE Star Trek Hallmark ornament. We also have most of the Star Wars and Peanuts ornaments as well. MGM put out the Stargate SG:1 Christmas ornaments and I have those as well. A star or angel goes on top. That is my purview, as I say a prayer to thank God for his many blessings that he has bestowed upon my family thoughout the year and to continue to hold us in His arms and bless us throughout the coming year.

Toronto Gal - I will take photos of the tree and post pics of all the Star Trek Starship Ornaments for you.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

TxBorderCop said:


> Toronto Gal - I will take photos of the tree and post pics of all the Star Trek Starship Ornaments for you.


Perfect, thank you :lol:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

TxBorderCop said:


> You guys are bad. This was the FIRST year I did not set up the tree. My son, Daniel Shea, set it up for me. I had to "fluff" the branches to make the artificial tree look as lifelike as possible. I cannot have a real tree as I am allergic to evergreens, which is most of the bloody trees here, LOL.
> 
> We will hang the ornaments after I hang all the lights on my days off (this week they are Tuesday and Wednesday). I like to call the tree my Homage to Hallmark as we have every SINGLE Star Trek Hallmark ornament. We also have most of the Star Wars and Peanuts ornaments as well. MGM put out the Stargate SG:1 Christmas ornaments and I have those as well. A star or angel goes on top. That is my purview, as I say a prayer to thank God for his many blessings that he has bestowed upon my family thoughout the year and to continue to hold us in His arms and bless us throughout the coming year.
> 
> Toronto Gal - I will take photos of the tree and post pics of all the Star Trek Starship Ornaments for you.


I did 3-5 second rushes through sage brush nearly every day at my first duty station in the army. When I finally took a scratch test due to allergies, guess what caused the largest blister. Yup. Sagebrush. :lol:


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

AquaHull said:


>


I used to have '59 Fairlane, loved that car!


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## TxBorderCop (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> I did 3-5 second rushes through sage brush nearly every day at my first duty station in the army. When I finally took a scratch test due to allergies, guess what caused the largest blister. Yup. Sagebrush. :lol:


Your luck and mine sound eerily similar.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> *Christmas is the most special time of year* - I prefer Easter
> 
> *where we are reminded of, and celebrate, the innocence of children, joy of purity, and goodwill to men and women of the world.* - Wow, whats next a call for a group hug and heading to the airport to hand out flowers and get donations.
> 
> I do not hate - I am firmly convinced that certain pagan practices have entered into the church and the followers home. some are more harmful then others Christmas is not really a harmful event...but it is a gateway holiday....lol - notice the drug reference there...


Tell us how you feel about the* Easter Bunny * :lol:

AJ


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