# Protect Yourself from Illegal Searches



## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Excellent video. From my experiences and talking to cop friends. Never, never consent to a search. It will piss off the cop but stick to your rights. If you consent anything and everything can be used against you.

Same thing when it comes to speaking to a law enforcement officer. You have a right to remain silent and you need to stay silent. The cop will become your friend to get you to talk and/or other tactics. If you talk you will be screwed. The chance that you are being recorded is pretty much guaranteed. Talk to any defense attorney and they will tell you the same.

With the way technology is today every cell phone probably has a camera/video. If you do not have handcuffs on then you should be video taping the conversation/interaction. I have came across many videos on YouTube where the persons A** was covered because they were video taping. Most of the time the police did not know they were video recorded.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

I am all for the above. Don't talk to cops, get a lawyer. However there are times that giving a simple statement will save you lots of money and time. Remember, you do have the right to remain silent, you also can answer questions and stop at anytime and no further questions will be asked of you. In my line of investigations, child protective services are involved. These agencies can hold your case due to not giving statements. A simple denial of the allegations is sometimes enough to close a case. Now, if you decide to talk to the police to give a statement, BE VERY CAREFUL with what you say. Take your time and think of what you are saying. Do not incriminate yourself


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

My Mother told me *never* talk with strangers, and _You are the strangest SOB I've ever seen!_.

At home, close the door, after get off my property.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I appreciate when people invoke their rights. It's not my job to educate people about all of the exceptions to the search warrant rule but during searches I usually do.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Asking for a warrant is not an unreasonable thing. Think about that woman who screwed up and left Philadelhia with a gun and carry permit and ended up doing time in New Jersey because she made a wrong turn. Or the Marine that spent a year or so in a Mexican prison when he accidentally entered Mexico with a firearm in his vehicle. I know, no 4th amendment in Mexico. Stuff happens.


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## Phil74501 (Oct 11, 2016)

Back in my college days I took a class in Constitutional Law for my degree, which is in criminal justice. One of the students in the class had gotten pulled over by a jurisdiction in a neighboring state and given the once over for no other reason than that he had long hair. Now ultimately the fellow student had no charges filed against him...they found nothing at all. The professor, who had a JD and an EDD, told us what to do if pulled over by a police officer. Most of this is almost verbatim what he said...as near as I can remember it after all these years. 

If the officer asks you for permission to search, tell them no. If they ask that means they don't have probable cause, they're just on a fishing expedition. If they have probable cause, they're not going to ask, they're going to search, no matter what you say. If you tell them they can search, and they find something, you're just SOL. If you tell them no, and they find something, you at least have the chance to get it thrown out in court. Not that it's a sure thing that you will get it thrown out, but at least you will have a fighting chance. If you give them permission, you cannot later try to get whatever they found thrown out. Also, if the cop asks to search, and you tell him/her no, and they then try to use that as probable cause, that is a violation of your civil rights. The cop is simply trying to bully or bluff you into giving them permission. The Supreme Court has held that denying a police officer permission to search does not constitute probable cause to search.

If you are being questioned by a police officer ask them three questions: Am I under arrest? If they say no then ask: Is there the potential that I may later be placed under arrest? If they say no then ask: Is there the potential that my answering your questions could lead to my arrest? If they say no to any of these questions, and then later place you under arrest, they have violated your Miranda rights. If they answer yes to any of the above questions say one thing and one thing only: Lawyer. Then shut your mouth and don't say another word. Don't discuss the baseball game with them, don't discuss the weather with them, say nothing until you have talked to a lawyer. 

The police officer doesn't give a damn about you or your rights. All they want to do is put another notch on their belt. If that means your life gets ruined, well that's just tough.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

6811 said:


> ......... Now, if you decide to talk to the police to give a statement, BE VERY CAREFUL with what you say. Take your time and think of what you are saying. Do not incriminate yourself


Never say anything. Ever. Nothing. Give them your name and birthdate if you are under arrest, and possibly your address if your laws require it. But after that, remain silent.

Remember........... anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. It will not be used to prove your innocence, it will not be used to exonerate you, it will not be used to prevent your guilt. Cops are officers of the court system, and anything you say to them will be used against you. And *only* against you. Remain silent and demand legal counsel.

LEOs have classes on how to convict ham sandwiches. Seriously. This is no joke.

Buy the book _Three Felonies a Day_ by Harvey A. Silverglate.



Phil74501 said:


> ..................The police officer doesn't give a damn about you or your rights. All they want to do is put another notch on their belt. If that means your life gets ruined, well that's just tough.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

The police officer doesn't give a damn about you or your rights. All they want to do is put another notch on their belt. If that means your life gets ruined, well that's just tough.

Swing and a miss. Have you spent anytime researching your argument or are you just painting all LEOs with that big broad brush? I have been written up defending the Constitutional rights of citizens while forgoing my own in the interest of impartiality.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Never say anything. Ever. Nothing. Give them your name and birthdate if you are under arrest, and possibly your address if your laws require it. But after that, remain silent.
> 
> Remember........... anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. It will not be used to prove your innocence, it will not be used to exonerate you, it will not be used to prevent your guilt. Cops are officers of the court system, and anything you say to them will be used against you. And *only* against you. Remain silent and demand legal counsel.
> 
> ...


Huh... I guess I'm doing this wrong then. Cause I have been in court lots of times testifying for my suspect.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Phil74501 said:


> Back in my college days I took a class in Constitutional Law for my degree, which is in criminal justice. One of the students in the class had gotten pulled over by a jurisdiction in a neighboring state and given the once over for no other reason than that he had long hair. Now ultimately the fellow student had no charges filed against him...they found nothing at all. The professor, who had a JD and an EDD, told us what to do if pulled over by a police officer. Most of this is almost verbatim what he said...as near as I can remember it after all these years.
> 
> If the officer asks you for permission to search, tell them no. If they ask that means they don't have probable cause, they're just on a fishing expedition. If they have probable cause, they're not going to ask, they're going to search, no matter what you say. If you tell them they can search, and they find something, you're just SOL. If you tell them no, and they find something, you at least have the chance to get it thrown out in court. Not that it's a sure thing that you will get it thrown out, but at least you will have a fighting chance. If you give them permission, you cannot later try to get whatever they found thrown out. Also, if the cop asks to search, and you tell him/her no, and they then try to use that as probable cause, that is a violation of your civil rights. The cop is simply trying to bully or bluff you into giving them permission. The Supreme Court has held that denying a police officer permission to search does not constitute probable cause to search.
> 
> ...


Damn, 25 years as a LEO and 18 of those years as a detective and im wrong. I didn't know I could not have given a damn about people's rights. I always thought that as a detective I was supposed to seek the truth. And a lot of times the truth is, the suspect had been maliciously accused by the complainant. Good post.... Thanks, from now on I'm locking every one up, regardless if the person is righteous or not. And I will be putting notches on my belt to keep tabs on how many lives I ruin.

Quik question for you... Where did you get your info, BLM?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

6811 said:


> Damn, 25 years as a LEO and 18 of those years as a detective and im wrong. I didn't know I could not have given a damn about people's rights. I always thought that as a detective I was supposed to seek the truth. And a lot of times the truth is, the suspect had been maliciously accused by the complainant. Good post.... Thanks, from now on I'm locking every one up, regardless if the person is righteous or not. And I will be putting notches on my belt to keep tabs on how many lives I ruin.
> 
> Quik question for you... Where did you get your info, BLM?


As with all professions, there are good guys and not so good guys. I have known a number of police officers in my lifetime and most were good guys.

Thanks for being one of the good guys. :vs_clap:


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

6811 said:


> Damn, 25 years as a LEO and 18 of those years as a detective and im wrong. I didn't know I could not have given a damn about people's rights. I always thought that as a detective I was supposed to seek the truth. And a lot of times the truth is, the suspect had been maliciously accused by the complainant. Good post.... Thanks, from now on I'm locking every one up, regardless if the person is righteous or not. And I will be putting notches on my belt to keep tabs on how many lives I ruin.
> 
> Quik question for you... Where did you get your info, BLM?


Plenty of us support LEO.

Having said that, in some cases even if the officers really are on your side and do NOT want to see charges filed once the suspect talks the police may not be able to stop it. If there is a political agenda the DA can press charges in spite of what the LEOs think. That happened to G. Zimmerman.

The main goal is NOT giving the DA enough to move forward with a prosecution, and in most cases it is the defendant that ultimately gives them enough ammo to take it to trial. Everyone has the right to remain silent however very few have the ability.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Sonya said:


> Plenty of us support LEO.
> 
> Having said that, in some cases even if the officers really are on your side and do NOT want to see charges filed once the suspect talks the police may not be able to stop it. If there is a political agenda the DA can press charges in spite of what the LEOs think. That happened to G. Zimmerman.
> 
> The main goal is NOT giving the DA enough to move forward with a prosecution, and in most cases it is the defendant that ultimately gives them enough ammo to take it to trial. Everyone has the right to remain silent however very few have the ability.


I appreciate that you support LEO.

When I conduct investigations, I am not allowed to include what I "think", or my opinion of the case. I can only submit the facts. If the subject of investigation did not commit a crime, that is what I'm going to testify to. So if the DA want's to prosecute them, when I get on the stand I will testify and say the facts of the case. In every trial there are prosecutorial preparation, the DA would know then how the detective would testify in the case.

There are always bad people, and we should always be on the look out for them. But there are still good people out in the world that are righteous and always willing to help no matter what.

As for job security.... I can never be fired for telling the courts the truth.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

6811 said:


> As for job security.... I can never be fired for telling the courts the truth.


Like Sonya, a lot of people support law enforcement. But cops like you and CSI are, I don't want to say a rare breed but there just isn't a lot of you. Your right you cant be fired for telling the truth but if they want to get you fired they can make it their mission to get rid of you.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

6811 said:


> Huh... I guess I'm doing this wrong then. Cause I have been in court lots of times testifying for my suspect.


Then it seems you didn't do your job right. Why would you be testifying FOR a suspect......... in court? This makes no sense. The 'suspect' should never be in court in the first place.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

There are good cops and bad cops , you just have to give them all respect , IMO , If your nice to them they will be nice to you " maybe " , no harm in being nice ." No WARRENT " No search . If you have a warrant , I want my lawyer here for the search . If you know you did nothing wrong , then why would they be here at all ? You ask the questions then . JMHO .


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Then it seems you didn't do your job right. Why would you be testifying FOR a suspect......... in court? This makes no sense. The 'suspect' should never be in court in the first place.


Family court. Where Child protective services settle their cases if the child is to be removed from the parents who was accused of child abuse. They have hearings to determine if the child is returned or placed in foster care. I get to testify on those. As well as custody hearings in a divorce cases.. In many cases, kids are taken from the parents for allegations of child abuse. I investigate them, then CPS takes them to court and sometimes I get summoned to testify. If the accused did not commit a crime, or there is no evidence or probable cause. That is what I testify to. Hence, testifying FOR the suspect. In criminal court they would call that as a hostile witness.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Like Sonya, a lot of people support law enforcement. But cops like you and CSI are, I don't want to say a rare breed but there just isn't a lot of you. Your right you cant be fired for telling the truth but if they want to get you fired they can make it their mission to get rid of you.


I think it really depends on where you live. In rural areas and small towns things are different, crime rates are low and the relationship between LEO and the citizens is generally much better. There is far less paranoia. The cops know who the trouble makers are so they don't see everyone as a potential criminal or threat. A lot of their calls are traffic related, or people complaining about a neighbors dog etc... Not hard core stuff, unless there is a drug problem.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Like Sonya, a lot of people support law enforcement. But cops like you and CSI are, I don't want to say a rare breed but there just isn't a lot of you. Your right you cant be fired for telling the truth but if they want to get you fired they can make it their mission to get rid of you.


It's either you are a very intelligent person or a psychic. You are 100% correct, I am under fire from people who have agendas other than the truth. I take my time and conduct thorough investigations. And they want closed cases and let the courts hash it out. I openly speak against it, which is why they try to remove me from my unit. But the DA's office supports me and my boss hates that.

I have read a lot of your post MG... You are an intelligent person....


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

6811 said:


> Family court. Where Child protective services settle their cases if the child is to be removed from the parents who was accused of child abuse. They have hearings to determine if the child is returned or placed in foster care. I get to testify on those. As well as custody hearings in a divorce cases.. In many cases, kids are taken from the parents for allegations of child abuse. I investigate them, then CPS takes them to court and sometimes I get summoned to testify. If the accused did not commit a crime, or there is no evidence or probable cause. That is what I testify to. Hence, testifying FOR the suspect. In criminal court they would call that as a hostile witness.


Oh, so now the _other shoe_ drops. You aren't pulling someone over for speeding. You didn't witness what you claim to be a drug deal. You're a witness for the defense.

In fact, you aren't even a front-line investigator.

Sorry, but that's not what we're talking about here. Even if we were, I still would not conduct an 'interview' with you as it is really an investigation......... you just _call_ it an interview to make it sound less threatening.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Know your rights and when appropriate evoke them but don't be difficult towards officers and don't start quoting your rights as soon as you start talking to them. That old saying about catching fly's with sugar over vinegar applys. I don't like the Judge Dredd type officers any more than anybody else but remember they're looking for confrontation, if your polite and respectful your almost literally bullet proof when you evoke your rights at the appropriate time.

I just thought I would provide some examples here. I never have a problem offering identification when asked, in fact usually I offer it immediately because usually I'm carrying a concealed gun. Unless you have unserved warrants there is no reason you should refuse to identify yourself to a police officer. Your not going to be put on some secret FEMA list or anything like that and usually your name and date of birth is sufficient for identification purposes. I would wait until they ask to search your vehicle, backpack, or other personal property outside of a pat down to refuse consent. Again, be polite about it, you can refuse a search without going Johnny Cochran or Clarence Darrow on the officer.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

Last time I was stopped and talked to the officer, the Cop's reason to pull me over was that one of my two rear license plate lights was out. Pure fishing investigation. I am pretty sure he knew who he was stopping and also knew that the last Cop that stopped me in that county decided to arrest me and subsequently lost his job. Charge dismissed.

He came up on Wifey's side and she handed him my Lic. Reg. & Ins. I kept my hands on the steering wheel and answered his invasive questions; where are you all coming from tonight, where are you headed too, etc.

As he turned away to go and officially run me, he asked if we had any firearms in the truck. Yes we do. May I see them? Well yes you may, where do you want to start the cab, or the Gang Box in back? Why don't we start with the cab. That's easy just a .40 and 12ga. Are they loaded. No. If you don't mind I am going to go and run the SN's to make sure they aren't stolen. Go right ahead. 

He never did check the Rifles in the Gang Box. Here you go and have a safe trip, thank you very much. Be sure and get that light fixed. 

I never did and that was four years ago. I have been pulled over once since then, but never talked to the Cop. He flashed his headlights and waved his hand out his window to take off. I slowly pulled out and waved goodbye.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Excellent video. From my experiences and talking to cop friends. Never, never consent to a search. It will piss off the cop but stick to your rights. If you consent anything and everything can be used against you.
> 
> Same thing when it comes to speaking to a law enforcement officer. You have a right to remain silent and you need to stay silent. The cop will become your friend to get you to talk and/or other tactics. If you talk you will be screwed. The chance that you are being recorded is pretty much guaranteed. Talk to any defense attorney and they will tell you the same.
> 
> With the way technology is today every cell phone probably has a camera/video. If you do not have handcuffs on then you should be video taping the conversation/interaction. I have came across many videos on YouTube where the persons A** was covered because they were video taping. Most of the time the police did not know they were video recorded.


Well they have got a lot fanicer with the consent to search thing nowadays but back in the good old days if most any thing needed searching was done under the "plain view" exception...or the Terry vs Ohio lunge area search for weapons Which dont need anybodys consent or a search warrant. Now if the nice cop was nervous about what was in the trunk..it just need a tow job and a vehicle inventory..which aint supposed to be search but it sorta is..cause any exotic items found were admissable. The whiff of maryhooch smoke is plain view..lol.


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## Phil74501 (Oct 11, 2016)

csi-tech said:


> The police officer doesn't give a damn about you or your rights. All they want to do is put another notch on their belt. If that means your life gets ruined, well that's just tough.
> 
> Swing and a miss. Have you spent anytime researching your argument or are you just painting all LEOs with that big broad brush? I have been written up defending the Constitutional rights of citizens while forgoing my own in the interest of impartiality.


Just repeating what the professor said. All of that, except for the first paragraph was from him. If he was still alive I could let you discuss it with him. Did you miss the part where I used the term "verbatim?" Or are you unaware of what that term means?


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## Phil74501 (Oct 11, 2016)

6811 said:


> Damn, 25 years as a LEO and 18 of those years as a detective and im wrong. I didn't know I could not have given a damn about people's rights. I always thought that as a detective I was supposed to seek the truth. And a lot of times the truth is, the suspect had been maliciously accused by the complainant. Good post.... Thanks, from now on I'm locking every one up, regardless if the person is righteous or not. And I will be putting notches on my belt to keep tabs on how many lives I ruin.
> 
> Quik question for you... Where did you get your info, BLM?


Maybe while you're taking detective classes you can also take a class in remedial reading comprehension. Here, I'll help you out. "The professor, who had a JD and an EDD" I come from a law enforcement family. I have well over a dozen uncles, cousins, father, who are/were in law enforcement...from the FBI all the way down to sheriff's deputy. I have heard them tell stories about how they saw other officers frame people, or how they knew of other officers that did plant dope on people, or how they are trained to get you to confess, etc etc. Save your self righteousness for the sheeple who blindly follow the government. I choose not to be one of those.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

6811 said:


> It's either you are a very intelligent person or a psychic. You are 100% correct, I am under fire from people who have agendas other than the truth. I take my time and conduct thorough investigations. And they want closed cases and let the courts hash it out. I openly speak against it, which is why they try to remove me from my unit. But the DA's office supports me and my boss hates that.
> 
> I have read a lot of your post MG... You are an intelligent person....


Thank you, I know how it is with having a jerk boss. When I was a correction officer here in Michigan I was once written up by a supervisor for taking a sick day when I did not have any sick days remaining. The only thing was that it was my normal day off. I still hate that Bi**h.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Targetshooter said:


> If you know you did nothing wrong , then why would they be here at all ? You ask the questions then . JMHO .


Times are changing in the political arena and to honest I am not to much of a fan of federal law enforcement, especially after Ruby Ridge and Waco. Say Clinton gets elected and does her executive order specialty and also appoints her liberal socialist judges to the supreme court. Kiss the second amendment goodbye. Are you (everyone) going to turn your firearms in? The gun owner registry that the ATF is not supposed to have or use will defiantly come to light and they will come knocking on your door with that search warrant, but you did nothing wrong...


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Lots of innocent people end up on the Terrorist Watch List, or the No Fly List, for doing nothing more than exercising their Constitutional Rights. Ever wonder how one gets on one of those lists? Just ask.... and you end up on the list. Ever wonder if you are on one of those lists...... just ask......... and you'll end up on the lists. How do you have your name removed from those lists? No one knows.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Oh, so now the _other shoe_ drops. You aren't pulling someone over for speeding. You didn't witness what you claim to be a drug deal. You're a witness for the defense.
> 
> In fact, you aren't even a front-line investigator.
> 
> Sorry, but that's not what we're talking about here. Even if we were, I still would not conduct an 'interview' with you as it is really an investigation......... you just _call_ it an interview to make it sound less threatening.


What's a front line investigator? Never heard of such term. Is there a rear line investigator in your world too? I work in criminal investigation division in my agency. I specialize in sex crimes against children and physical child abuse. My investigations are mostly for felony crimes. I don't do traffic or drug work and I have never claimed to have seen a drug deal in the past 18 years nor do I care about drugs.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Phil74501 said:


> Maybe while you're taking detective classes you can also take a class in remedial reading comprehension. Here, I'll help you out. "The professor, who had a JD and an EDD" I come from a law enforcement family. I have well over a dozen uncles, cousins, father, who are/were in law enforcement...from the FBI all the way down to sheriff's deputy. I have heard them tell stories about how they saw other officers frame people, or how they knew of other officers that did plant dope on people, or how they are trained to get you to confess, etc etc. Save your self righteousness for the sheeple who blindly follow the government. I choose not to be one of those.


So your FBI, sheriff and a dozen uncle cops saw corruption of other police... That's good. So what did they do about it? Did they just let it go or did they testify against these corrupt cops who frame people?


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

MaterielGeneral said:


> Times are changing in the political arena and to honest I am not to much of a fan of federal law enforcement, especially after Ruby Ridge and Waco. Say Clinton gets elected and does her executive order specialty and also appoints her liberal socialist judges to the supreme court. Kiss the second amendment goodbye. Are you (everyone) going to turn your firearms in? The gun owner registry that the ATF is not supposed to have or use will defiantly come to light and they will come knocking on your door with that search warrant, but you did nothing wrong...


I said this before , " They can have my guns when they pry my cold dead fingers from them " . I was talking about our local law officers . I know most of our police officers here and they will not go door to door to get guns . I live in a pro gun county .


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Targetshooter said:


> I said this before , " They can have my guns when they pry my cold dead fingers from them " . I was talking about our local law officers . I know most of our police officers here and they will not go door to door to get guns . I live in a pro gun county .


When we had our elections I emailed the new prosecutor and sheriff before I voted for him and asked if Gun control became the law of the land would they support it and arrest those that refused to turn in their firearms or ignore it and defend the citizens. They both replied they were constitutionalist. They got my vote.

But, I'm sorry I do not trust that easy. If and when if it were to happen and they defend the people then they will have my support. Same goes to the modern military. When it comes down to jobs, families and being prosecuted themselves, some people may not be that strong. Especially if they are a Yes Sir, Anything You Want Sir type of personality. I have came across a lot of people like that in the military and when I was in Corrections.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

Maol9 said:


> Last time I was stopped and talked to the officer, the Cop's reason to pull me over was that one of my two rear license plate lights was out. Pure fishing investigation. I am pretty sure he knew who he was stopping and also knew that the last Cop that stopped me in that county decided to arrest me and subsequently lost his job. Charge dismissed.
> 
> He came up on Wifey's side and she handed him my Lic. Reg. & Ins. I kept my hands on the steering wheel and answered his invasive questions; where are you all coming from tonight, where are you headed too, etc.
> 
> ...


Every bit of that is true. However I do admit to a some deception through omission.

The time of the stop was 03:30. I hadn't been in that part of the country for two years when stopped. I was 2000 miles from home with a fully loaded and tarped PU truck (we had just come from Wyoming). He had followed me for quite a while before he stopped me, and definitely had enough time to run me and know all about me by the time he walked up. He showed me that my light really was out, I even crawled underneath the truck to try to fix it. He was pleasant and professional. He didn't give me a ticket or anything more than a verbal warning.

The last time that I was in that county I did have a issue with an officer, but never even filed a complaint. He was fired without any any direct input from me, the department did it all on their own, they did not cover for him.

The next time I was pulled over it wasn't even me he wanted. He wanted the tiny car that had been drafting me and was so close to me I couldn't see him in my mirrors until we were on the side of the road. That's why the Cop waved me off.

No I never fixed that light. I wired in a replacement because it was easier and cheaper than dissecting/changing the wire harness.

The reason I committed this minor deception by omission was to intentionally create a false narrative with the truth, and nothing but the truth.

It just wasn't the whole truth. That's the point. This is kind of deception is done all the time by humans, now add the inevitable lies into the mix and it becomes very clear how hard it is to determine the whole truth in all of it's shades and then deliver perfect justice.

Is the system perfect? Hell no. There are good cops and bad. Good departments and bad. The same for prosecutors and judges. Just like us.

The Justice system has always been imperfect, because it is composed of humans. That's why I am in favor of accountability, dash and body cams, and outside oversight. It's commonsense.

We each also have the ability to protect ourselves with current technology and I would suggest we all do it.

Just being smart and using a little individual commonsense goes a long way too. Got a light out? Take care of it. Been drinking? Don't drive. Mad at somebody? Take a walk and cool off. An officer tells you to do something, cooperate. Sort it out later if you have an issue. Who knows the Cops/System just might do the right thing in the end, or not...

Personally I think their job is tough and thankless. Thanks to all you LEOs here at PF BTW.

Trying wade through the all crap and human waste they deal with is bad enough, it just makes sense to not make it harder. I do believe in taking care though, it is only prudent.

Regarding what is happening at Federal level, it most certainly is getting worse than it was already, and it has been bad in my opinion. That is why I still call Wyoming home, and look forward to being able to stay at home permanently as soon as possible.


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