# Importance of faith.



## Jakthesoldier

I'm curious how religion/spiritual beliefs play into y'all's day to day activities. 

Before anyone comments, at the first sign of someone bashing anyone else's faith or belief structure I will report my own thread and do what I must to have it removed (Mods feel free to close this if it heads that way PLEASE)

What faiths do y'all follow? How do your beliefs play into your lifestyle? Does your faith contradict your lifestyle, and if so how do you reconcile that with yourself?

No judgements, just curious.


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## shoot2live

You hear me say, "If I die right now, I don't care. I'm not afraid of death." But, you don't hear what my words are really saying: 

"I'm not surrendering. I'm not giving up my gun. My knife will not leave my hand. I will fight until I take my last breath. And, you best believe, I will protect the love of my life, my dog, my home, my family, my friends, and my students. I will step in front of a gun and show the person their own weakness. I will push my niece and nephew to the sidewalk and let the car hit ME. I will defend what is mine. 
I found my purpose, my reason, for living, and I touched many hearts and changed many paths; my legacy will live on, I will live on. If I die right now, I wouldn't die at all."


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## Camel923

Nondenominational Christian. Prayer daily. Faith that there is some one whose authority is higher and more powerful than an earthly one and I has best square myself with Him. Prepare myself spiritually for what is to come. Prepping is almost a natural extension. Volunteer time and money to the Church and organizations to help those less fortunate (several). Be grateful for what I have. The glass is half full. Realize I have a long way to go.


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## TacticalCanuck

I believe in the teachings of the Holy Bible. I believe in Jesus. 

I do not believe in religion. Religion is man made. Religion is controlled by men. Read whichever good book you find enlightenment in. I have no qualms. But get into religion, your no longer living purely by the words in scripture but rather how someone else wishes to use them. It could be altruistic, but I will decide for myself. 

Just read Matthew 6. All of it. 

Touchy topic, but that is my faith. I won't debate it, just share it. I do have conversations with others from religion and faiths with an open mind. Often times they can't discuss the virtues of a verse or passage, I get their religion instead - a black and white definition of what was read, dictated to them by someone else. When a person reads scripture removed from religion the conversation is long and engaging. I will witness, but only in private. 

I don't think of "religion" as black and white. I think its free for you to choose. Some enjoy the social gatherings in a church. I'm not knocking anything. I think if you read the Bible, and live by it's teachings, well, that was it's intended use. Scholars get too caught up in their personal religion and let their religion dictate the meaning. The meaning should be evident. If you don't understand it, put it down and read it again tomorrow. And the next day. Say a prayer for understanding. All good things in time.


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## tinkerhell

My faith has been burried yet smoldering since I became an adult. 

I have a hard time believing in forever nothingness after we die. So I should probably accept more spirituality into my life.

One thing I have noticed, I am finding too many coincidences with my preps. Ie the second hand store has exactly what I'm looking for, on multiple occasions. I believe someone is watching out for me, no doubt about it. And, it is time to start openly believing again


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## Smitty901

Faith is what keeps some of us in check. With out it there is a long list of people that would be in serious trouble.


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## TacticalCanuck

tinkerhell said:


> My faith has been burried yet smoldering since I became an adult.
> 
> I have a hard time believing in forever nothingness after we die. So I should probably accept more spirituality into my life.
> 
> One thing I have noticed, I am finding too many coincidences with my preps. Ie the second hand store has exactly what I'm looking for, on multiple occasions. I believe someone is watching out for me, no doubt about it. And, it is time to start openly believing again


Just pick up a Bible, open it somewhere, and read a verse. It's not wrong, it's not going to hurt you and you may find some comfort, wisdom and guidance in there! I read something from it most days - and say a prayer now and then asking for guidance, wisdom and a clear mind, so that I may understand it. I often find that you can start applying what you read away. I've only been doing this now for a few months. I was like you in a way. I grew up in a religious fashion, but people from said religion were horrific, and hid their true nature behind attendance to the church. I know not all are like that. It drove me from the church. But that was my experience.


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## Prepared One

Camel923 said:


> Nondenominational Christian. Prayer daily. Faith that there is some one whose authority is higher and more powerful than an earthly one and I has best square myself with Him. Prepare myself spiritually for what is to come. Prepping is almost a natural extension. Volunteer time and money to the Church and organizations to help those less fortunate (several). Be grateful for what I have. The glass is half full. Realize I have a long way to go.


You mean there is someone higher then Obama?? Does he know this?


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## Spice

I am not religious. While I see lots of wisdom in various religious books, I think *people* write books, and I don't think any people really know The Truth.

I don't know The Truth of how the universe got here or how the laws got made. It appears to me that at the moment the universe is humming along according to those laws with no outside interference. I've come to peace with the limitations on my understanding and the uncertainty that brings. Instead I find my direction from my own sense of morality and justice, and my love of and appreciation for the world I find myself in and the amazing beings I share it with.


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## Maine-Marine

I am a non-denominational follower of Jesus Christ. I believe the bible is the inspired word of God and It clearly explains what is expected of us.

There is no other way! Any faith or religion that denies Jesus is the Christ is wrong.

All religions can be wrong but they can not be right because they all teach contradictorily things.

This is with me every hour of every day... Jesus is Lord, King, Ruler and worthy of ALL sacrifice, praise, energy, love, etc -


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## oddapple

G-D is true.


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## Chipper

Religion plays no part in my life. If you "need" religion that's fine as long as you don't push it on me. Which everyone does day after day. All I see and hear about is religion. 

I'm to the point that I wish religion would be banned. The Jews, Christians, muslims, etc have been fighting over some stupid version of their believes for centuries. Millions of people murdered and killed over a believe in god. Just imagine how peaceful the world would be right now without religion.


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## shoot2live

Who defines what is right? 
Who defines what is wrong?
Who defines what is just and unjust?
By nature, are humans instinctively kind or cruel?

Categorized under Kingdom Animalia, humans are animals. Like a lion, pouncing on a gazelle and ripping skin away from the bone, humans act equally, sometimes more, brutal to each other, other animals, the earth. . .everything. However, like a chimpanzee raising a n orphaned tiger, human compassion could prevent another person from falling victim to war. 

None of us are 100% sure what, when, where, or IF civilization - not the world - civilization . . . whole societies, cultures, nations, people . . . will vanish or suffer or self-destruct. No one is 100% sure when, where, or IF natural disasters, economic collapse, meteors, ect could spontaneously wipe out every living cell on this earth. Speculations, predictions, algorithmic calculations, racial and cultural prejudices all breed fear and hate and greed and wrath and gluttony. Fear only comes from not knowing, not being familiar with, and not understanding the source of that fear. People aren't afraid of heights; they worry about their head smashing the ground. A child doesn't fear the dark; what they cannot see makes them anxious. Fearing death is merely the uncertainty of what comes after. Fearing life, which some end too early, is not finding, or understanding, your purpose, which guides your path; fearing life is the failure to live freely. 

Religion: mankind's ingenious justification and creation of law and order.
Religion: mankind's ingenious juxtaposition of forgivable sin being unforgivable.
Religion: man's ingenious ability to control everything.
Religion: man's ingenious method to develop a nation and destroy it in the same day.
Religion: man's claim of superiority.
Religion: a pessimistic attempt to inspire optimism.
Religion: the hope something better will come, and the faith that something better will come because you hope it will . . . at least at some point in your lifetime. Don't worry, it will.

Animals are not governed; animals have no religion. Animals act on instinct. Animals live and die, freely. 
Why do humans, also animals, allow their enslavement, of the whole species, to an intangible, invisible, and silent master?


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## Slippy

I am one smart sumbitch and I have a pretty decent amount of faith... but I am NOT smart enough NOR faithful enough to DENY the existence of God. 

Look around...the trees, the sun, the sky, the oceans. Ever been at 13000 feet in the Tetons? How about The Monterrey Peninsula? Or seen the sun bounce and shimmer off the Blue/Green waters of the Gulf of Mexico? Ever seen a baby born? Or for that matter a puppy? What about witnessing a 3 year old child's expression when he discovers that Santa Claus came last night? 

Watch the sun rise over a foggy field on a December morning, or simply think about a seed when planted in the dirt, how it grows, blooms and produces fruit? Or the awesomeness of a hurricane or a blizzard? 

Yeah, I'm not smart or faithful enough to think that a bunch of atoms/molecules all got together and did this on their own...So I choose to believe.


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## oddapple

....and there goes the thread. By "superior" intellects either unable or unwilling to participate according to the op. Which is why I don't care about who kills the godless. They're not even on the map. Anyones.
(Not you slippy, the truer wisdoms before you...that arent)


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## TacticalCanuck

In my thinking, religion and faith are 2 completely different things. One is controlled by man. One is innate, born into us, as children of the earth. I don't 'believe' in religion. But I have faith.


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## Salt-N-Pepper

Jakthesoldier said:


> I'm curious how religion/spiritual beliefs play into y'all's day to day activities.
> 
> No judgements, just curious.


What part in my day to day activities does religion/spirtual beliefs play?

MY spiritual beliefs play absolutely no part of my daily life, because I don't have any. It's simply not a consideration.

Having said that, other people's spiritual/religious beliefs greatly affect my life&#8230; in rather unexpected ways&#8230;

Let me preface to say that I work in an office of about 20 people, and it's a family business (not my family I am an employee). Everybody who works there except me and two others attends the same evangelical church. The other two are devoutly Catholic. I have a co-worker who is depserately ill, he has a rare form of cancer. He is under treatment, and at this point in time he is holding his own&#8230; the man has a wife and two small kids, and he's fighting hard to hold on to see his kids play high school ball and even graduate from school. He believes, as do my co-workers, that he is alive today not only because of his medical treatment but also because God has listened to his and everybody's prayers. Our office has a prayer circle, and bible study (all entirely optional&#8230; these are GOOD people they do NOT force their beliefs on anybody).

So what does this mean for me? I LIKE my co-workers, and the last thing in the world I want to be is a dick, or a wet blanket. If the man believes that prayer is helping, then I sure as hell am not going to say word-one about it other than "I am glad you are hanging in there, man&#8230;". I go to work, I do my job, I keep my mouth shut and find a way to "be busy" when they are having a prayer session. It's sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" type of a deal.

Please don't think in any way that I am complaining, I knew the company was faith-oriented before I took the job and they treat me great. All I am saying is that I have to pay attention to it daily.

Heck, right now I am waiting until afternoon to go to the gun range just at the edge of town. It's right near a church, and I don't want to be out there banging away like it's WWIII while the good folks are trying to hear the sermon. NO reason to disturb the neighbors, it's not about religion it's more about common curtesy.

Religious stuff never bothers me as long as folks just leave me alone and don't try to force their beliefs on me or use my tax dollars to spread their faith. I couldn't care less if people privately fund Christmas displays set up on the courthouse lawn or whatever, in fact I rather like them. Manger scenes are cool, especially the live action ones&#8230; as long as every faith that wants to is allowed to privately fund a display of their own, I just don't care.


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## shoot2live

Let me be clear: I did not deny nor affirm the existence of any higher power. I question everything! I enjoy discussing logical/illogical, rational/irrational, tangible/intangible views of every religion. It's interesting how the Old Testament justifies murdering within a few stories yet lists a Commandment, stating, "Thou shall not murder," unforgivable if committed; then, states that declaring the acceptance of servitude would forgive any and all sins committed, and open gates to paradise. Wait, What? I'm confused. 
So someone could take out a whole school, but, before he takes his own life, he says, "I accept . . ." pulls the trigger, and walks right into heaven? And, if one of the victims stole a crayon ("Thou shall not steal"), but didn't make his declaration, he gets banished to the alternative?

My questions and thoughts may not be my beliefs.
I'll say it again: I DID NOT DENY NOR AFFIRM THE EXISTENCE OF A HIGHER POWER! 
I merely question the written works used to instruct followers how to love and hate, who to love and hate, what is forgivable and unforgivable. 
If Jesus turned water into wine, why are congregations discouraging the consumption of bourbon Slippy enjoys on Friday nights?
Oddapple, how do you feel, with your extensive wisdom, about the command, intentionally denying, for the first couple to not eat from the Tree of KNOWLEDGE? I can already imagine 6.3 billion zombies and no weapons . . . there's no fun in that.

I was raised and baptized as a Catholic, and, forcefully, converted/reborn to Christianity. My father won custody of me, during a summer my visitation rights were taken away, and I was forced to spend 7 days/week for 8 weeks in Youth Missionary Camp. The papers were signed on a Friday, and, when I walked into Sunday morning service, my faith, my religious understanding, my existence in the congregation was crucified and burned to dust by the hypocritical, judgmental, shunning sneers of hate spit on me.


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## Slippy

I don't do organized church anymore, Mrs Slippy does from time to time because she and our oldest Son like it, its their time together. So today she and Son 1 met at Church as they often do and I burnt through some rounds of CCI mini mag .22LR then rode my 4 wheeler around Slippy Lodge. My activity was just as much "Church" to me as Mrs Slippy's activity. And after nearly 30 years of marriage, it works for us. I may read the Bible tomorrow, or not for a while. 

But I will pray daily.


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## Frostbite

I'm a Thomas Jefferson Deist. I like his style (even if he did cling to slave ownership longer than he should have).

He was a good and learned man, he just lived at a time when slavery was still accepted.

I enjoy his Bible. The Jefferson Bible: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth: Thomas Jefferson: 9781604591286: Amazon.com: Books

He rewrote the Gospels, removing the bizarre supernatural "miracles" and came up with a useful book.


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## Denton

TacticalCanuck said:


> In my thinking, religion and faith are 2 completely different things. One is controlled by man. One is innate, born into us, as children of the earth. I don't 'believe' in religion. But I have faith.


Religion. Generally speaking, we Christians are speaking of "faith" when we speak of religion. The "founders" to whom I often refer were speaking of faith when they used the word, "religion."

Quite often, people knee-jerkingly state religion is responsible for millions of deaths throughout history. This statement is a shallow one. Governments, kings, tyrants, etc., are responsible for millions of deaths. They have used "religion" as motivation for the commoners to fight, but that doesn't make "religion" the bad thing. Take Christianity, for example. For how many years was the Bible not written in the languages of the European commoners? What did that do? Now that it is written in our language, it is no longer a mystery and no longer something that can be used against those with the good sense to read it for themselves.

As we can see, however, wars have not subsided. As a matter of fact, we have had even larger wars and they have been even bloodier! Why is that? Not because of religion. Because of people. Not even just political leaders, but those entities who are pulling the strings of the war machines from behind the scenes.

My faith is in Jesus. God incarnate, who came to here to lead a sinless life so that He could die for all of us, thereby paying the price for our sins. He arose after three days, thereby breaking the curse of death. The chains of death are removed simply by calling upon Him to be our savior and master, asking for forgiveness and repenting of our sins. That is not a religion. That is faith in the Creator of the universe who loved us so much that He created a way out of the law for His favorite creation.

As an individual, I do not worry or even contemplate what is on the other side of the line between life and death. I also know I never walk alone as the Holy Spirit is with me. As a weak human who is always wrestling with temptation and often losing, I have empathy for my fellow human being. Even those who are Christians forget this important point, " For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Whatever comes down the pike, I am not alone. That is a good thing.


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## Ralph Rotten

I don't believe we have an inkling about the nature of our creator. In fact I think that our insistence on worship is misplaced. Religious texts (especially Christian ones) commonly refer to God as the father, and us as his children. Yet in practice we view our place as more of a pet, or maybe a lab experiment, but not really children. See, you may look up to your parents, love them, and even admire them...but you wouldn;t worship them (except maybe when you were 3.)

I believe that if we truly are the children, then as a species we are meant to grow and evolve and learn until one day we stand before our maker as equals, just as you do to your real parents. Right now we are infants who need the structure of formal religion because we do not yet possess the sociological maturity to handle the truth yet. 

Although I was raised Roman Catholic (baptized, 1st comm, confirmation, etc) I have since expanded my readings whenever possible. If you truly believe in the concept of an all powerful, all knowing entity, then you would be a fool to assume that he would only approach you through one book. It may surprise you to know that God is bilingual. It doesn't matter what name you use, he call goes to the same big red phone. It's not like God screens his calls.

"Oh, another call for Allah. I'll just let that go to voicemail."


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## rice paddy daddy

I do not participate in organized religion, I do not go to church.
However, I do have great faith and a strong belief in a Higher Power, whom I choose to call Jesus Christ.
My belief is the central part of my life - it comes before family or anybody/anything else.

The program of recovery of Alcoholics Anonymous is very spiritual in nature, in fact it is based on a belief in a Higher Power and having a vital spiritual experience necessary to recover from alcoholism.
For me, a relationship with God is not a theory, it is an absolute matter of life or death.


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## Smitty901

No God no rules. What ever man feels is right at the time. Interesting system better lock down now it is going to get ugly


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## shoot2live

One of my favorite pastimes, until one pounded on my door as if they were S.W.A.T. but scrambled away at the cocking of my carry piece, was debating with Jehovah Witnesses. I would out-quote them every time, yet they never changed their approach. Living alone at the time, i would welcome them in, give them a glass of sweet tea, and chat in the living room. Their expressions went from chipper to serious to frustrated to hopeless failure in 5 minutes. I learned gained quite an interesting view into that religion.


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## AquaHull

TacticalCanuck said:


> I believe in the teachings of the Holy Bible. I believe in Jesus.
> 
> I do not believe in religion. Religion is man made. Religion is controlled by men. Read whichever good book you find enlightenment in. I have no qualms. But get into religion, your no longer living purely by the words in scripture but rather how someone else wishes to use them. It could be altruistic, but I will decide for myself.
> 
> Just read Matthew 6. All of it.
> 
> Touchy topic, but that is my faith. I won't debate it, just share it. I do have conversations with others from religion and faiths with an open mind. Often times they can't discuss the virtues of a verse or passage, I get their religion instead - a black and white definition of what was read, dictated to them by someone else. When a person reads scripture removed from religion the conversation is long and engaging. I will witness, but only in private.
> 
> I don't think of "religion" as black and white. I think its free for you to choose. Some enjoy the social gatherings in a church. I'm not knocking anything. I think if you read the Bible, and live by it's teachings, well, that was it's intended use. Scholars get too caught up in their personal religion and let their religion dictate the meaning. The meaning should be evident. If you don't understand it, put it down and read it again tomorrow. And the next day. Say a prayer for understanding. All good things in time.


Matt 6 is all red letter


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## Pir8fan

My wife and I are active in our church, a nondenominational Christian church. In today's ugly, mean world, the message of hope is inspiring. I also must admit that a few hours spent in solitude on a mountain top is as spiritual as any church and is certainly the grandest cathedral ever created. I have a degree in biology. You simply will never convince me that the beauty and complexity of life at all levels is just the result of some random chemical reactions.


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## Maine-Marine

TacticalCanuck said:


> I believe in the teachings of the Holy Bible. I believe in Jesus.
> 
> I do not believe in religion. Religion is man made. Religion is controlled by men. Read whichever good book you find enlightenment in. I have no qualms. But get into religion, your no longer living purely by the words in scripture but rather how someone else wishes to use them. It could be altruistic, but I will decide for myself.
> 
> Just read Matthew 6. All of it.
> 
> Touchy topic, but that is my faith. I won't debate it, just share it. I do have conversations with others from religion and faiths with an open mind. Often times they can't discuss the virtues of a verse or passage, I get their religion instead - a black and white definition of what was read, dictated to them by someone else. When a person reads scripture removed from religion the conversation is long and engaging. I will witness, but only in private.
> 
> I don't think of "religion" as black and white. I think its free for you to choose. Some enjoy the social gatherings in a church. I'm not knocking anything. I think if you read the Bible, and live by it's teachings, well, that was it's intended use. Scholars get too caught up in their personal religion and let their religion dictate the meaning. The meaning should be evident. If you don't understand it, put it down and read it again tomorrow. And the next day. Say a prayer for understanding. All good things in time.


I think the issue is that people try to bring God closer to themselves... instead of bringing themselves closer to god


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## Doc Holliday

I stopped going to church a long time ago because Organized religion has nothing to do with worshiping GOD.. Its about money and I want no part of it.
I also dont believe as most, of what people call "Christian" because I witnessed my nephew from birth until he came out and told me he was gay, go through hell trying to deny who he was and he tried numerous times to take his own life because of the belief he grew up with. We all knew he was gay from the time he could talk (2 years old) but he didnt know what was different about himself until he was in his teens.

I dont believe in bashing any person for something they cannot control and had no say in how they were BORN.... This is how I differ from main stream "Christians" and I always tell these people to show me where in the teachings of Jesus (he is the foundation of Christianity) where he bashes gay people.... they cant find any.

Just like my liberal freind in Washington state who votes for the Democrat party when he loves and owns many firearms and is shooting himself in the foot by doing it...
I vote conservative and have to deal with people who hate my nephew for no other reason then who he falls in love with.

As far as religion.... Lets say I love my god and pray to him to make me a better person and if I am wrong and there isnt one... I didnt hurt anyone on my journey to death


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## dwight55

Maine-Marine said:


> I am a non-denominational follower of Jesus Christ. I believe the bible is the inspired word of God and It clearly explains what is expected of us.
> 
> There is no other way! Any faith or religion that denies Jesus is the Christ is wrong.
> 
> All religions can be wrong but they can not be right because they all teach contradictorily things.
> 
> This is with me every hour of every day... Jesus is Lord, King, Ruler and worthy of ALL sacrifice, praise, energy, love, etc -


I'm a pastor, . . . church leader, . . . couldn't say it any better than the above, . . . thanks, Maine-Marine.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Pir8fan

Every time I encounter a person with no spiritual beliefs, I truly feel sorry for them. One of the most depressing thoughts is that we terribly flawed humans are the pinnacle. For me, Christ and the promise of the cross provide an enduring sense of hope. Personally, I know without a doubt that the only way I will ever get to heaven is by His grace alone.


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## Maine-Marine

Genesis 18

one of those "MEN" that meet Abram just before Sodom was destroyed -- Was Jesus.... Read it. Who was the LORD in the text.


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## TacticalCanuck

AquaHull said:


> Matt 6 is all red letter


Im sorry Aqua I dont know what you mean by that. The Bible i have is just one color of ink.


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## oddapple

TacticalCanuck said:


> Im sorry Aqua I dont know what you mean by that. The Bible i have is just one color of ink.


He means it is all the words of jesus. Red letter editions put the words of Jesus in red.
Someone pointed out to read that book, he pointed out that book is jesus his self speaking. (Is what it looked like)


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## oddapple

Maine-Marine said:


> Genesis 18
> 
> one of those "MEN" that meet Abram just before Sodom was destroyed -- Was Jesus.... Read it. Who was the LORD in the text.


Heh heh those are some of my favorite parts


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## Ralph Rotten

Allah Allah Akbar
Translation: God is good


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## Denton

Ralph Rotten said:


> Allah Allah Akbar
> Translation: God is good


Allah is Great.

Allah is the polytheistic Arab moon god. He was Muhammad's favorite.


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## TacticalCanuck

oddapple said:


> He means it is all the words of jesus. Red letter editions put the words of Jesus in red.
> Someone pointed out to read that book, he pointed out that book is jesus his self speaking. (Is what it looked like)


Hey neat idea. Kinda like having a blue glow around the puck in hockey so you can follow it. The red lettering is a neat concept. Thanks for the clarification!


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## warrior4

Born and raised Christian and currently attend a non-denominational protestant church. It can be described as a "mega-church" too. However we've found the teachings to be reflective as well as informational. Our pastor doesn't assume that everyone in the building knows the Bible inside and out so a lot of time is spend on exploring the context of who was writing a given passage, when was it written, and who was it being written to. Then he'll draw out how those teachings have impact on out daily lives. It's very thought provoking and challenging at times. I've recently started up a small group with three other men to get deeper into what it means to be a Christian man in today's culture. 

I've always been seen as a Christian from as early as I can remember. It is something that guides me, and the values and teachings of Christianity have shaped me into the man I am today. I have long accepted the Jesus came to Earth to sacrifice Himself for me so I would not have to pay the price for my sins. In the past I've tried forming arguments for Christianity after reading books like "The Case for Christ," and "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist," however very recently I've made a conscious decision to try and not do that anymore. Rather I'll look to the example of Jesus and do my best to love everyone and let that be my example and testimony to them. It's not my place to judge someone. I may help keep my brothers and sisters in Christ accountable for their actions but I'm learning more and more how to do that out of a spirit of love rather than vindictiveness.


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## cisco56

Although this is interesting being christian myself, I found this site because of morning money the website which had an interview with Mr Rickards who works for the CIA threat assessment section. He said a bad depression is coming soon. Not only do I want to prepare, I want to be able to help the brethren. "It is more blessed to give than receive". Besides this bitcoin and cryptocurrency is here which I believe is the money the beast will use for the one world government. But not yet. I will not take the mark of the beast but I will use bitcoin to help myself in the depression until there is a one world government. I want to do what corrie tenboom did for the Jews if Jesus tarries. Hope I gave you guys something to think about.


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## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> Genesis 18
> 
> one of those "MEN" that meet Abram just before Sodom was destroyed -- Was Jesus.... Read it. Who was the LORD in the text.


According to the Hebrew it was Yahway.....the proper Jewish non-name for the God of Israel.


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## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> According to the Hebrew it was Yahway.....the proper Jewish non-name for the God of Israel.


According to the bible Nobody has seen the father...and it is spelled Yahweh


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## Frostbite

Guess the Bible lied, then.......because it says Abraham saw him.

:armata_PDT_23:


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## CWOLDOJAX

Maine-Marine said:


> According to the bible Nobody has seen the father...and it is spelled Yahweh


Technically it is spelled Yhwh. Vowels with jots and tittles came later.. יְהֹוָה ... Yĕhovah is a pronunciation.

And scholars state that people in the Old Testament saw a representation of God. I dunno. But I'm certain I am not smarter than God and His evidence in my life and my personal experiences trumps any naysayers rendition of any passage. Remember English is a horrible translation of the original transcripts... King James' scholars did a good job but they translated wrongly in a few places.


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## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> Guess the Bible lied, then.......because it says Abraham saw him.
> 
> :armata_PDT_23:


You think the bible lied... I think he Saw Jesus....


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## Maine-Marine

Many people think that Jesus was not around until he was born... BUT that is not what the bible teaches and it is not what Jesus says
------------------------
Before Abraham was, I AM

No man has seen the father except ME
-------------------------
SO - if no man has seen the father - but some men have seen God - they must have seen Jesus


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## CWOLDOJAX

I have not digested every post on this thread. (my disclaimer).

I cannot go anywhere or do anything without a thought of God. I have a love relationship with God and His Son Jesus, (Yeshua HaMachiach). 
Love compels me to obedience.
When you were courting your sweetheart did you not make sure she always had a place on your schedule... no matter what happened? I have that kind of daily walk with God.
(side note - Did you know the letter "J" is not in the Hebrew aleph beth?)

I try to stay close to the love letter God wrote for me called, affectionately, The Bible. God did not draw me to Him because of His wrath but because He loves me. Period.

Concerning religion, the origin of the word relates to "being regular" not being faithful. 
In today's society, the word "faith" is used to categorize a demographic group of citizens as baptist, catholics, jews, muslims, buddhists, etc. I have noticed that among church attending believers that faith is also being used to describe denominations. 
Sadly, one of the devil's great successes is denominationalism. In America, there are over 1400 denominations, (including "non-denominational folks"), who each believe they have the correct doctrine or assert a predominate doctrine.

THERE it is ... DOCTRINE... There really is only one Holy Spirit and He, the Holy Spirit is the only one with the correct doctrine. It is doctrine that has turned faith against faith and religion against religion.


> Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. --James 1:27


(side note - this is the job of the people of God, not the Govt.)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jas&c=1&t=NKJV#s=t_conc_1147027

In my 1-year, employment on the Billy Graham staff, we worked very hard to help the multitudes of church organizations come to the table and agree on the basics of Christianity. Out 4000 churches from Daytona to Savannah we received help from over 700 churches. In the year, 2000, we recorded 10,600 decisions to either follow Christ or return to Christ. 
I would also cross picket lines (with willing news media), proclaiming weird thing about us.

In a nut shell, religion can be very distracting. The Bible is written, deliberately, to be understood by people without a PhD, a priest, or clergy... but that is another thread for another day.

Back to the OP questions:
What faiths do y'all follow? 
-- As a statement of faith I ascribe to the Baptist Faith and Message Southern Baptist Convention > The Baptist Faith and Message
How do your beliefs play into your lifestyle?
-- I am always conscience of my beliefs, I am not always successful in maintaining them. My success or failure in my belief is more about God than it is me. If someone chooses to disregard God as a power, a person, and a provider, there is no success of my own that will convince them to be a believer. If my failure in my belief causes them to doubt God then I feel really bad about it but usually it turns out to be an excuse rather than "I lost one". God is faithful. He is far more faithful than I am and He is faithful and just to forgive me of my unrighteousness.
I try not to hate anyone... I am part sheepdog... I hate bad guys, but just until their not bad anymore. I am not a pacifist. Neither was Jesus.
Does your faith contradict your lifestyle, and if so how do you reconcile that with yourself?
Many years ago, as a young sailor headed to SE Asia, I had to come to grips with who I was, who God is, and what could be expected of me in the combat zone. Without a clergy, or lay person, I opened my Bible, (there's a tip), and discovered a precious nugget. I have read it before but it did not mean anything. Jesus pronounced loudly that He had not found anyone, but a Centurion, with such great faith in all of Israel. I believe the Holy Spirit led me to that passage. Further personal study reveal proclamations concerning Christ came from Centurions too. Not ONCE did Jesus EVER condemn a soldier. I needed that and I still teach that.

Whew! 
Okay - I'm over 40 - and can be as long-winded as I want .


----------



## Maine-Marine

CWOLDOJAX said:


> But I'm certain I am not smarter than God


I am not either - but if I take 1 + 1+ 1+ 1 +1 + 1 = it adds up to 6.

If I know no man has seen the father but they have seen God and Jesus has been around since forever... it is not that much of a leap to understand

Christ told the Jews, " . . . Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day . . ." J


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## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> You think the bible lied... I think he Saw Jesus....


I said I guess the Bible lied......not that I THINK the Bible lied.

Face it, we're both guessing.

Nobody knows for sure what the hell they might have been talking about.

Nobody knows for sure what Jesus may have or may not have said.


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## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> I said I guess the Bible lied......not that I THINK the Bible lied.
> 
> Face it, we're both guessing.
> 
> Nobody knows for sure what the hell they might have been talking about.
> 
> Nobody knows for sure what Jesus may have or may not have said.


If you GUESS then you are ASSUMING... So you assume the bible lies

I know enough to trust that it is true based on several eyewitness accounts and a group of nobodies that went from fishermen to willing to die for this MAN who claimed to be God.

The Bible is 66 books which all wonderful tell the same story without contradiction or error...


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> If you GUESS then you are ASSUMING... So you assume the bible lies
> 
> I know enough to trust that it is true based on several eyewitness accounts and a group of nobodies that went from fishermen to willing to die for this MAN who claimed to be God.
> 
> The Bible is 66 books which all wonderful tell the same story without contradiction or error...


I never ASSUME anything.

You, however......are ASSUMING that you know what happened based on wild stories with zero evidence.

So don't tell me I'm ASSUMING.


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## Jakthesoldier

Maine-Marine said:


> If you GUESS then you are ASSUMING... So you assume the bible lies
> 
> I know enough to trust that it is true based on several eyewitness accounts and a group of nobodies that went from fishermen to willing to die for this MAN who claimed to be God.
> 
> The Bible is 66 books which all wonderful tell the same story without contradiction or error...


Technically he never claimed to be God. He claimed to be the SON of God. And continuing that technicality, we are all children of God (if you believe in God) and, therefore, he spoke the truth, no matter which way you slice it.


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## Moonshinedave

While at the present time, I don't consider myself living "right", my roots do go back to a strong christian belief. I know a lot of those christian values that were instilled in me, makes me who I am today. 
One of the biggest one, or perhaps the easiest to see, would be to treat people as I would like people to treat me. Of course, It's called the Golden Rule, it should be just common sense, but oh what a great world we'd all live it if everyone would just live by that rule.


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## warrior4

Jakthesoldier said:


> Technically he never claimed to be God. He claimed to be the SON of God. And continuing that technicality, we are all children of God (if you believe in God) and, therefore, he spoke the truth, no matter which way you slice it.


Actually Jesus claimed to be God on several occasions. Saying things like "'Very truly I tell you,' Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am.'" John 8:58 "Jesus answered: 'Don't you know me Phillip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father?'" John 14:9 Also look at the way Jesus would describe himself most often. The Son of Man. This is a reference to the son of man from Daniel 7:13 which has always been seen as a divine figure. So yes Jesus claimed quite often actually that he was God. In fact it was that very claim that caused the Jewish leaders to haul him off to Pilate to be executed. In their minds it was blasphemy, but they spun it into a charge of sedition so the Roman government would execute him.


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## Jakthesoldier

See, that's where having strong understanding of older uses of words is important. These are examples of the royal uses of phrases. "if you have seen me you have seen the father" means "I represent the Father, everything I do is from Him, if I speak it is as if He is speaking."


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## warrior4

And when Jesus says things like "I am" or "Son of Man"?


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## Maine-Marine

Jakthesoldier said:


> Technically he never claimed to be God. He claimed to be the SON of God. And continuing that technicality, we are all children of God (if you believe in God) and, therefore, he spoke the truth, no matter which way you slice it.


If you are saying that he never SAID - I AM GOD in those exact words - ya you are right HOWEVER

The Jews were going to stone him - WHY - Because they understood he was claiming to be God

One of the 10 commandments is Thou shall have no other God before ME... Jesus said NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT ME... Seems he is putting himself before God

Jesus indeed has to be God or he is a blasphemer and a sinner


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## Denton

Jakthesoldier said:


> Technically he never claimed to be God. He claimed to be the SON of God. And continuing that technicality, we are all children of God (if you believe in God) and, therefore, he spoke the truth, no matter which way you slice it.


Mark 2:5-7
5 And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven." 6 Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, 7 "Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

Isaiah 43:25
"I, I am he
who blots out your transgressions for my own sake,
and I will not remember your sins.

They were correct. Only God can forgive sin.

He, like his favorite creation, is triunal in nature.

There is a difference in the meaning of we being children and He being the Son of God. That is something that gets cloudy for some. The difference is clear when one takes a step back and realizes we aren't able to absolve another of their sins, and we aren't purported to having existed before Abraham (John 8:58).

Sorry for the diversion. I easily squirrel before finishing my second cup of coffee in the morning. I really need to speed things up with morning IVs.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> I never ASSUME anything.
> 
> You, however......are ASSUMING that you know what happened based on wild stories with zero evidence.
> 
> So don't tell me I'm ASSUMING.


you said you guessed the bible was lying...

as to evidence - Evidence for what?? Evidence that Jesus lived, Evidence the followers walked with him? Evidence for a God..? Evidence the Bible is True...??

what evidence are you talking about


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> So don't tell me I'm ASSUMING.


You ARE assuming!!


----------



## Denton

Uh-oh.

Guess what I am assuming. Judging by the cast of characters in this thread who are participating right now, I am assuming things are going to go south in a hurry.

This is a warning. I slept like crap last night, the caffeine isn't hitting me as hard as I would like and I am struggling to stay in my happy zone. 

Do NOT start flaming each other! Keep the conversation courteous, civil and clinical.

I'm not one to move topics into the bunker because it is getting heated, and we have probably taken a turn against the rules, so be very cautious.


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## Maine-Marine

The term Trinity and Rapture were never used in scripture...Yet I sure feel confident making a case for them


----------



## Maine-Marine

Denton said:


> Judging by the cast of characters in this thread who are participating right now,


Who are you calling a CHARACTER... PAL!!!


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## warrior4

Ok everyone let's just chill out. The purpose of this thread was to see how everyone's different faith's or beliefs shape their lives. There have been a few side conversations that can easily get out of hand. I know I participated in one, and I apologize if it came off as antagonistic, that was not my intent. My intent was to educate and provide evidence for my point. Let's try to keep this back on track. Remember it's very hard to get tone of voice when all we can see is text on a screen.


----------



## Denton

Maine-Marine said:


> Who are you calling a CHARACTER... PAL!!!


Well, your avatar is a character, isn't it? By the looks of you, you could stand a few months of the Paleo Diet. As you can see, it has worked wonders for me!


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## sargedog

I was raised in a baptist church all my life. When I got older I moved away from God, I wasn't acting like I should. I am so grateful that I am forgiven, I am just a ole country boy from Tennessee, and to think that Jesus died for me is amazing. I went through a rough time from 13-21, I had so much crazy built up in my life, tried drinking it away which didn't help. The turning point in my life was when my daughter was born. Such a sweet little face asking me to go to church with her and her mom.

When I was 29 I had a life changing illness, I was pretty much dead when I arrived at the hospital. If it wasn't for my aunt and God I would have been a goner. That's when I decided that there was more to life. Getting back in church and learning was great for me and my family. 

In 2011 I had 2 blood clots (1 in each lung) that the doctor told me that he had never seen such large ones in someone still alive. I am a firm believer that there is still a purpose for me here on this earth. I don't want to pressure anyone to my beliefs, because I think the more you try the more it turns people off. I respect everyone here and all I want is to see everyone in Heaven. I believe the power of prayer is strong. I am so blessed to be forgiven.


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## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> You ARE assuming!!


I assume I'll just shut up.

:armata_PDT_12:


----------



## Slippy

I was going to tell frostbite what a Richard Noggin he was but y'alls very good posts (Denton, SargeDog and other's) calmed me down a bit..so I won't bash the muslime loving fool. 

So, I've come to the conclusion that the frostbitten muslime lover needs someone to do a little prayin' for his lost stupid-ass ignorant soul...and I'm just the man to do that prayin'. Begrudgingly, I must admit, but it'll do me good.

Thanks


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## Slippy

Frostbite said:


> I assume I'll just shut up.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


Already, the power of prayer revealed! Can I get an AMEN?!?!


----------



## Denton

So, why is it some people get mad at us Christians? I forget.

Slippy, you are on my pray list, too. Sigh. You know I have to go to work, soon. I ain't got time for long praying.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Slippy said:


> Already, the power of prayer revealed! Can I get an AMEN?!?!


Threat of expulsion = power of prayer? Interesting theological concept...


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## Denton

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Threat of expulsion = power of prayer? Interesting theological concept...


Frosty ain't going nowhere.


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## Salt-N-Pepper

Denton said:


> Frosty ain't going nowhere.


Theologically? That's harsh


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## Denton

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Theologically? That's harsh


One of the reasons I love this place. Y'all keep me from speaking carelessly. :topsy_turvy:


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## Slippy

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Threat of expulsion = power of prayer? Interesting theological concept...


Salty,

Do tell if you got the inside scoop, but I don't know about any threat of expulsion on frosty, that's above my pay grade.

What I do know is that frosty said something about him shutting the hell up. Since that was my prayer too, I made the connection and shazzaam! prayer answered.

Thanks!


----------



## oddapple

It was me. I'm only shao lin by day. At night I'm a ninja!


----------



## bigwheel

shoot2live said:


> Who defines what is right?
> Who defines what is wrong?
> Who defines what is just and unjust?
> By nature, are humans instinctively kind or cruel?
> 
> Categorized under Kingdom Animalia, humans are animals. Like a lion, pouncing on a gazelle and ripping skin away from the bone, humans act equally, sometimes more, brutal to each other, other animals, the earth. . .everything. However, like a chimpanzee raising a n orphaned tiger, human compassion could prevent another person from falling victim to war.
> 
> None of us are 100% sure what, when, where, or IF civilization - not the world - civilization . . . whole societies, cultures, nations, people . . . will vanish or suffer or self-destruct. No one is 100% sure when, where, or IF natural disasters, economic collapse, meteors, ect could spontaneously wipe out every living cell on this earth. Speculations, predictions, algorithmic calculations, racial and cultural prejudices all breed fear and hate and greed and wrath and gluttony. Fear only comes from not knowing, not being familiar with, and not understanding the source of that fear. People aren't afraid of heights; they worry about their head smashing the ground. A child doesn't fear the dark; what they cannot see makes them anxious. Fearing death is merely the uncertainty of what comes after. Fearing life, which some end too early, is not finding, or understanding, your purpose, which guides your path; fearing life is the failure to live freely.
> 
> Religion: mankind's ingenious justification and creation of law and order.
> Religion: mankind's ingenious juxtaposition of forgivable sin being unforgivable.
> Religion: man's ingenious ability to control everything.
> Religion: man's ingenious method to develop a nation and destroy it in the same day.
> Religion: man's claim of superiority.
> Religion: a pessimistic attempt to inspire optimism.
> Religion: the hope something better will come, and the faith that something better will come because you hope it will . . . at least at some point in your lifetime. Don't worry, it will.
> 
> Animals are not governed; animals have no religion. Animals act on instinct. Animals live and die, freely.
> Why do humans, also animals, allow their enslavement, of the whole species, to an intangible, invisible, and silent master?


The religion of Evolutionism explained in a nut shell. Thanks. Where does the "conscience" fit into this theology? All us humans seem to have one while it is universally lacking in lower life forms. If the postulates of Darwin are correct at least a vestige of a conscience should be found in apes and dolphins..elephants etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+a+conscience?&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

con·science
ˈkän(t)SHəns/
noun
noun: conscience; plural noun: consciences

an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior.
"he had a guilty conscience about his desires"
synonyms:	sense of right and wrong, moral sense, inner voice;
morals, standards, values, principles, ethics, beliefs;
compunction, scruples, qualms
"her conscience would not allow her to remain silent"


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## oddapple

All us humans seem to have one while it is universally lacking in lower life forms"

So that's why animals are better people - they don't lie and since no one supports them the weak die.
Animals do have intelligence and conscience, but every time somebody says that it makes me feel better about d3population. Stupid is just as ugly as criminal and we'really drowning in it for no reason.


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## Denton

This former U.S. Army dog handler has observed "lies" as well as guilt. Guilt would indicate a conscience. Without a conscience, how would a dog feel guilty about lying?


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## Maine-Marine

Denton said:


> This former U.S. Army dog handler has observed "lies" as well as guilt. Guilt would indicate a conscience. Without a conscience, how would a dog feel guilty about lying?


Behaviorists: Dogs feel no shame despite the look

they do not feel guilty.. if they truly felt guilty sooner or latter they would STOP eating your shoe


----------



## bigwheel

Denton said:


> Religion. Generally speaking, we Christians are speaking of "faith" when we speak of religion. The "founders" to whom I often refer were speaking of faith when they used the word, "religion."
> 
> Quite often, people knee-jerkingly state religion is responsible for millions of deaths throughout history. This statement is a shallow one. Governments, kings, tyrants, etc., are responsible for millions of deaths. They have used "religion" as motivation for the commoners to fight, but that doesn't make "religion" the bad thing. Take Christianity, for example. For how many years was the Bible not written in the languages of the European commoners? What did that do? Now that it is written in our language, it is no longer a mystery and no longer something that can be used against those with the good sense to read it for themselves.
> 
> As we can see, however, wars have not subsided. As a matter of fact, we have had even larger wars and they have been even bloodier! Why is that? Not because of religion. Because of people. Not even just political leaders, but those entities who are pulling the strings of the war machines from behind the scenes.
> 
> My faith is in Jesus. God incarnate, who came to here to lead a sinless life so that He could die for all of us, thereby paying the price for our sins. He arose after three days, thereby breaking the curse of death. The chains of death are removed simply by calling upon Him to be our savior and master, asking for forgiveness and repenting of our sins. That is not a religion. That is faith in the Creator of the universe who loved us so much that He created a way out of the law for His favorite creation.
> 
> As an individual, I do not worry or even contemplate what is on the other side of the line between life and death. I also know I never walk alone as the Holy Spirit is with me. As a weak human who is always wrestling with temptation and often losing, I have empathy for my fellow human being. Even those who are Christians forget this important point, " For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
> 
> Whatever comes down the pike, I am not alone. That is a good thing.


Amen! Great topic in general great personal contribution on the subject. I believe a person can have "faith" in anything. For example would assume most of us have faith the sun is going to come up in the morning..for various reasons of course. Past experience maybe?

The faith under discussion could best be described as "saving faith' or that faith which puts us into a relationship with God. The only source of that particular faith comes from the Word of God. Whether written or spoken.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

It doesn't take much faith to get saved but it does take a little.

Matthew 17:20 
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Those who desire more faith...need to have more of God's Word hidden in their heart.

In my case at 40 years old I decided to read a plain English version of the Bible for myself..as opposed to spending a lot of years listening to others folks tell me what it said. The more I read of it..the more it made sense. I had trouble believing some of it..but decided to act as if I believed it anyway. As faith is an ACTION..that worked for me. In hindsight I believe the Bible was the bait. Like a hoggy bass I sniffed around on it and the Holy Ghost hooked me in the jaw and reeled me up. It was a wild ride to the top and into the boat. I tried to spit out the hook but it would not come loose.

Anyway it was an earth shattering and profound life changing experience..course all salvation experiences are different. My wife got saved at age 12 for example so her experience was different than mine. I could try to describe some of the wonderful things I went through but the old atheists and agnostics who hang on here would not believe it.

To bring us to present day..25 years later. Faith in God is the basis of my life. To paraphrase our old friend the Apostle Paul:

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Maine-Marine said:


> Behaviorists: Dogs feel no shame despite the look
> 
> they do not feel guilty.. if they truly felt guilty sooner or latter they would STOP eating your shoe


Ever notice that dogs only eat your FAVORITE or MOST EXPENSIVE shoes? Not the ones you never got around to taking back to the store that do nothing but sit in your closet?


----------



## oddapple

Maine-Marine said:


> Behaviorists: Dogs feel no shame despite the look
> 
> they do not feel guilty.. if they truly felt guilty sooner or latter they would STOP eating your shoe


But they do? They know. Besides I never take the words of those who break creatures and press them to service as either top of the human ladder or conscience department. They're just animals more cowardly and dishonest than a good dog

Behaviorists:
Your kid needs amphetamines 
People are stupid cattle to be chute-herded stupidly for a good profit
People who think there are things wrong are delinquent

And etc....more *****


----------



## Maine-Marine

'Guilty Dog' Look Is a Myth


----------



## oddapple

Maine-Marine said:


> 'Guilty Dog' Look Is a Myth


Is not.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Ralph Rotten said:


> I don't believe we have an inkling about the nature of our creator. In fact I think that our insistence on worship is misplaced. Religious texts (especially Christian ones) commonly refer to God as the father, and us as his children. Yet in practice we view our place as more of a pet, or maybe a lab experiment, but not really children. See, you may look up to your parents, love them, and even admire them...but you wouldn;t worship them (except maybe when you were 3.)
> 
> I believe that if we truly are the children, then as a species we are meant to grow and evolve and learn until one day we stand before our maker as equals, just as you do to your real parents. Right now we are infants who need the structure of formal religion because we do not yet possess the sociological maturity to handle the truth yet.
> 
> Although I was raised Roman Catholic (baptized, 1st comm, confirmation, etc) I have since expanded my readings whenever possible. If you truly believe in the concept of an all powerful, all knowing entity, then you would be a fool to assume that he would only approach you through one book. It may surprise you to know that God is bilingual. It doesn't matter what name you use, he call goes to the same big red phone. It's not like God screens his calls.
> 
> "Oh, another call for Allah. I'll just let that go to voicemail."


I would think that a GOD would not be bi-polar and tell 20 different groups 20 different things

I would think there would be some predictions (prophecies) to prove right or wrong

I would think he would want folks to love him


----------



## PaulS

I don't really care what you believe as long as it gets you closer to whatever you believe to be your creator. I know a lot of agnostics that are closer to 'Christian' than a lot of Christians. I know atheists who are better people than one might expect from a 'good' Christian. They each have their own 'brand' of faith. They believe that what they are doing is right, for them.

As a 'non-denomiational' minister, who has served on interfaith groups I have found that one must have faith - whether or not it is religious. 

I am a religious man who has a deep and persistant faith. I don't "limit" God by thinking that He will only save those like me. I firmly believe that we are 'made in the image and likeness' to be partners in faith in the ongoing creative process that changes our world for the better. When faith gets in the way of accepting others as 'co-creators' then there is something wrong.

"Go forth and do greater things than I have done..."

Everything that was made by God contains, within it, a spark of deity.


----------



## Maine-Marine

PaulS said:


> I don't really care what you believe as long as it gets you closer to whatever you believe to be your creator. I know a lot of agnostics that are closer to 'Christian' than a lot of Christians. I know atheists who are better people than one might expect from a 'good' Christian. They each have their own 'brand' of faith. They believe that what they are doing is right, for them.
> 
> As a 'non-denomiational' minister, who has served on interfaith groups I have found that one must have faith - whether or not it is religious.
> 
> I am a religious man who has a deep and persistent faith. I don't "limit" God by thinking that He will only save those like me. I firmly believe that we are 'made in the image and likeness' to be partners in faith in the ongoing creative process that changes our world for the better. When faith gets in the way of accepting others as 'co-creators' then there is something wrong.
> 
> "Go forth and do greater things than I have done..."
> 
> Everything that was made by God contains, within it, a spark of deity.


So are all faiths EQUAL and EQUALLY TRUE???

Are Christianity and Islam and Hindu EQUAL


----------



## oddapple

Lot of tricks and traps. Most agnostics and atheists so-called are really just rank humanists - that religion fails. Frequently. Look at the US...look at Sweden - buncha banal evil nazi bots worshipping beauty, orgy and the vapid gerbil company of each other. Lesser people can have lesser religions. What are they going to do? Be more than a cotton headed ninny muggins? (The Santa clause) The great accomplishments or destinies of men for...gerbils? I find the professed religion usually suits the believer.


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## Frostbite

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Ever notice that dogs only eat your FAVORITE or MOST EXPENSIVE shoes? Not the ones you never got around to taking back to the store that do nothing but sit in your closet?


My dogs never eat my shoes. I guess that's because I was raised by dogs and know how to communicate with them.

:armata_PDT_12:


----------



## oddapple

Frostbite said:


> My dogs never eat my shoes. I guess that's because I was raised by dogs and know how to communicate with them.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


Dogs still are trying to help some people, but one can only do so much....


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> So are all faiths EQUAL and EQUALLY TRUE???
> 
> Are Christianity and Islam and Hindu EQUAL


Well, the faiths are equal and true.......but the faithful--oh, they come in all shapes and forms (and they're definitely not equal).


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> Well, the faiths are equal and true.......but the faithful--oh, they come in all shapes and forms (and they're definitely not equal).


So you think Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha are equal???


----------



## PaulS

Maine-Marine said:


> So are all faiths EQUAL and EQUALLY TRUE???
> 
> Are Christianity and Islam and Hindu EQUAL


The only answer I have is that God will be the judge - not you or me. Individual bias among those of one faith or another makes it an argument and not a discussion. Only God knows if a man is faithful to those things that truly matter to Him or not. That is why we were told to judge the tree by the fruit it bears. Each individual deserves to be judged on the fruits of his own actions and not on the perceptions of his faith. God knows best.


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> I would think that a GOD would not be bi-polar and tell 20 different groups 20 different things
> 
> I would think there would be some predictions (prophecies) to prove right or wrong
> 
> I would think he would want folks to love him


Interesting. I've seen lots of prophecies proven right and wrong and it never proved a thing (maybe that some people were good guessers).

Now, being bi-polar means experiencing extreme mood swings from happy to depressed. That doesn't apply to telling 20 different groups 20 different things.

It might apply to loving your creations one day and drowning millions of them the next day, though. Now that's a REAL mood swing. Maybe you're onto something!

I'm curious as to why you think God would want folks to love him?


----------



## PaulS

Maine-Marine said:


> So you think Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha are equal???


Jesus is the Son of God, Mohammad was a prophet, and Buddha was only a man who taught others how to achieve peace within themselves. (Buddhism is not a religion it is a philosophy and Buddha is neither prophet nor God)

Are they equal? Are Geoge Washington and Thomas Jefferson equal? Are Hitler and Stalin equal? No two individuals are equal. We are each unique!


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> So you think Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha are equal???


It would be far more interesting to figure out if Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Joe Dimaggio were equal......at least we have statistics we can check on them.

Jesus, Muhammad and Buddha are just speculation with zero evidence.

:armata_PDT_12:


----------



## Maine-Marine

Well boys, I have to tell you... there is no way that ALL faiths/Religions can be equal/the same

Islam says Jesus is not the Son of God
Jesus says he is

Some of you need to review the laws / rules of logic...

Law of noncontradiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Law of excluded middle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Law of identity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seriously - use some logic here - 
---------------------------
on anther note - HINT (The angel Mohammad talked with - WAS A DEMON)


----------



## slewfoot

Maine-Marine said:


> So you think Jesus, Mohammad, and Buddha are equal???


JMHO but I don't think god cares what name you call him as long as you believe.
It has been said by another member but I believe in god and parts of the bible but not religion. I believe You do not need a building you call a church to believe in or practice your beliefs. You and your body is your church, you pray to your god thru this church and god answers in his own way thru this church of the body.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> It would be far more interesting to figure out if Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Joe Dimaggio were equal......at least we have statistics we can check on them.
> 
> Jesus, Muhammad and Buddha are just speculation with zero evidence.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


this evidence you keep talking about - what are you looking for...


----------



## Maine-Marine

slewfoot said:


> JMHO but I don't think god cares what name you call him as long as you believe.
> It has been said by another member but I believe in god and parts of the bible but not religion. I believe You do not need a building you call a church to believe in or practice your beliefs. You and your body is your church, you pray to your god thru this church and god answers in his own way thru this church of the body.


It bothers me to no end that some of you dislike religion yet you think it is ok to make up your OWN rules/laws/guidelines and facts...

your body is the church..OH MY


----------



## Maine-Marine

slewfoot said:


> You do not need a building you call a church


I agree with that -


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> this evidence you keep talking about - what are you looking for...


Anything solid.....as it stands, you have nothing.

And that gets us back to the title of the thread.......which is--"THE IMPORTANCE OF FAITH."

Faith is not evidence, faith is just determination to believe without evidence.....which is your right.

So have fun and believe Jesus is a "Christ" and is God and all that stuff.......more power to you.

Just don't think it makes you any better than anybody else......because we're all the same.

:68:


----------



## PaulS

Maine-Marine said:


> Well boys, I have to tell you... there is no way that ALL faiths/Religions can be equal/the same
> 
> Islam says Jesus is not the Son of God
> Jesus says he is
> 
> Some of you need to review the laws / rules of logic...
> 
> Law of noncontradiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Law of excluded middle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Law of identity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Seriously - use some logic here -
> ---------------------------
> on anther note - HINT (The angel Mohammad talked with - WAS A DEMON)


The only reason that you believe, Jesus is God, is your faith - there is no logic in that fairth - it is just faith.
So, if you want to discuss faith, you have to allow the same "faith" to counter your "faith" as part of the discussion.

Under the rules of discussion the Bible and the Qoran have to be given the same value as references. (as do all books of faith)

This is why I say that it becomes an argument and ceases to be a discussion.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> Anything solid.....as it stands, you have nothing.
> 
> And that gets us back to the title of the thread.......which is--"THE IMPORTANCE OF FAITH."
> 
> Faith is not evidence, faith is just determination to believe without evidence.....which is your right.
> 
> So have fun and believe Jesus is a "Christ" and is God and all that stuff.......more power to you.
> 
> Just don't think it makes you any better than anybody else......because we're all the same.
> 
> :68:


Where did I say I was better then anybody else - I did not..

Here is my evidence (I have others but i like this) The Jews after 1,000's of years are back in their homeland, surrounded by people that out number them 100 to 1, have won several wars, still speak the same language.

I will make a prediction - There will be a 7 year peace treaty signed with Israel and they will be allowed to rebuild their temple, and 3.5 years (+- a month or two) after the treaty - The temple will be desecrated/made unholy.

I will offer some advise - when you see these things come to pass...I would rethink your beliefs!!!


----------



## Maine-Marine

PaulS said:


> Under the rules of discussion the Bible and the Qoran have to be given the same value as references. (as do all books of faith)
> 
> .


Wrong - a book from 600 AD does not have the same standing as the Bible which is a multi book from 1,000's of years before.

and as soon as the say different things we have to decide which is true and which is false. once we decide which is false we can determine which to toss on the fire


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> Where did I say I was better then anybody else - I did not..
> 
> Here is my evidence (I have others but i like this) The Jews after 1,000's of years are back in their homeland, surrounded by people that out number them 100 to 1, have won several wars, still speak the same language.


When you say that you are going to heaven because of your belief in your "Christ" and anybody who rejects your "Christ" is going to be tortured in fire forever......yes, you ARE saying you are better than others, obviously.

As to your evidence......it fails. It is not evidence because it doesn't PROVE anything (except maybe that it pays to have weak enemies and yourself be backed and supported by the world's strongest military powers).

Your assertion makes as much sense as the winning football team claiming they won because they prayed that God would help them win.......all they can prove is that they won, they can't prove a single solitary thing about God helping them.

If you could show that God put the Zionists in charge in Palestine, that would be different.....but you can't. The historical evidence just shows that the British and heavy contributions of money and weapons put the Zionists in charge in Palestine.

You have no real evidence, just speculation that God is on your side.

So......we're back to FAITH again, are we not?

Yes, we are on topic.


----------



## Sasquatch

I'm staying out of this but I have to compliment all of you on some good readin'!


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> Wrong - a book from 600 AD does not have the same standing as the Bible which is a multi book from 1,000's of years before.
> 
> and as soon as the say different things we have to decide which is true and which is false. once we decide which is false we can determine which to toss on the fire


Let me guess.......I'll go out on a limb here and predict that all the books are going in the fire except the Bible?

And.......that's based on your "Faith."

:armata_PDT_12::armata_PDT_12::armata_PDT_12:


----------



## PaulS

Maine-Marine said:


> Wrong - a book from 600 AD does not have the same standing as the Bible which is a multi book from 1,000's of years before.
> 
> and as soon as the say different things we have to decide which is true and which is false. once we decide which is false we can determine which to toss on the fire


The bible was assembled (not written) and edited the first time in 325 CE the Qoran was assembled in 610CE. 
Thousands of years before the birth of Christ there were books written by the Sumerians (people who lived in Sumer) that were the equivalent to the books of the Bible (old testament). The name that they used for the Creator was 'Anki'. Roughly translated the name means "all that is" or "all of heaven and all of earth". Many of the stories in these books are repeated in the old testament.

As a matter of fact a man who is written about in the old testament came from Ur, a city in Sumer. His name is Abram. As Abram from Ur was touched by God to be the father of the Jews he was renamed Abraham.
The books of Sumer even include a son of God who gave up His immortality to save mankind. I would have to look up the name to be sure but I believe it was 'Adapa', which translates to 'savior'.

These are historically accepted facts.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Anybody reading this thread who still thinks a religious section of this board would be a good idea is probably either really drunk or English isn't his first or second language....


----------



## Maine-Marine

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Anybody reading this thread who still thinks a religious section of this board would be a good idea is probably either really drunk or English isn't his first or second language....


why does debate bother you????


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> When you say that you are going to heaven because of your belief in your "Christ" and anybody who rejects your "Christ" is going to be tortured in fire forever......yes, you ARE saying you are better than others, obviously.
> 
> As to your evidence......it fails. It is not evidence because it doesn't PROVE anything (except maybe that it pays to have weak enemies and yourself be backed and supported by the world's strongest military powers).
> 
> Your assertion makes as much sense as the winning football team claiming they won because they prayed that God would help them win.......all they can prove is that they won, they can't prove a single solitary thing about God helping them.
> 
> If you could show that God put the Zionists in charge in Palestine, that would be different.....but you can't. The historical evidence just shows that the British and heavy contributions of money and weapons put the Zionists in charge in Palestine.
> 
> You have no real evidence, just speculation that God is on your side.
> 
> So......we're back to FAITH again, are we not?
> 
> Yes, we are on topic.


wow,,, 1st please quote were i mentioned hell

you ask for evidence and then talk about proof.... evidence is not proof.... evidence is / are things which lend reliability to a claim... that i have to school you on these basics makes a meaningful debate hard.

i never said God was on my side... i am on Gods side

I have given you a prediction.....

Some day you will profess Jesus as Lord


----------



## Slippy

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Anybody reading this thread who still thinks a religious section of this board would be a good idea is probably either really drunk or English isn't his first or second language....


Uno mas cervasa por favor mi amigo!:icon_smile:


----------



## bigwheel

PaulS said:


> The bible was assembled (not written) and edited the first time in 325 CE the Qoran was assembled in 610CE.
> Thousands of years before the birth of Christ there were books written by the Sumerians (people who lived in Sumer) that were the equivalent to the books of the Bible (old testament). The name that they used for the Creator was 'Anki'. Roughly translated the name means "all that is" or "all of heaven and all of earth". Many of the stories in these books are repeated in the old testament.
> 
> As a matter of fact a man who is written about in the old testament came from Ur, a city in Sumer. His name is Abram. As Abram from Ur was touched by God to be the father of the Jews he was renamed Abraham.
> The books of Sumer even include a son of God who gave up His immortality to save mankind. I would have to look up the name to be sure but I believe it was 'Adapa', which translates to 'savior'.
> 
> These are historically accepted facts.


Very astute scholarship Sir. There were undoubtedly written instructions delivered by God to mankind prior to the Bible..at least as I was taught. Whether the work you cite is such an example I'm just not sure. What I can say...as one who believes in the progressive revelations of God..I would not depend on it as a means of trying to refute our current Canon. That old version is bound to be out of date..lol. 
Code of Hammurabi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> wow,,, 1st please quote were i mentioned hell
> 
> i never said God was on my side... i am on Gods side
> 
> I have given you a prediction.....
> 
> Some day you will profess Jesus as Lord


Wow, thanks.

Are you denying you believe in hell?


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Maine-Marine said:


> why does debate bother you????


Debate doesn't, personal attacks I don't care for&#8230;


----------



## bigwheel

Well just think Salty..if it wasn't for God..atheists wouldn't have anything to biotch about..lol.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

bigwheel said:


> Well just think Salty..if it wasn't for God..atheists wouldn't have anything to biotch about..lol.


So, it's important to have something to bitch about?


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> Wow, thanks.
> 
> Are you denying you believe in hell?


I never said that.... to be honest - In another post - I point out that you are on the road to hell.


----------



## Maine-Marine

PaulS said:


> The bible was assembled (not written) and edited the first time in 325 CE the Qoran was assembled in 610CE.
> Thousands of years before the birth of Christ there were books written by the Sumerians (people who lived in Sumer) that were the equivalent to the books of the Bible (old testament). The name that they used for the Creator was 'Anki'. Roughly translated the name means "all that is" or "all of heaven and all of earth". Many of the stories in these books are repeated in the old testament.
> 
> As a matter of fact a man who is written about in the old testament came from Ur, a city in Sumer. His name is Abram. As Abram from Ur was touched by God to be the father of the Jews he was renamed Abraham.
> The books of Sumer even include a son of God who gave up His immortality to save mankind. I would have to look up the name to be sure but I believe it was 'Adapa', which translates to 'savior'.
> 
> These are historically accepted facts.


The bible was indeed written. It was written over 1,000's of years and by several different authors.

the rest of your facts - really do not matter - only the bible has a record or fulfilled prophecy and archaeological records that have shown it to be faithful and true.

The amount of changed lifes shows that.

look at the number of Christian food pantries, hospitals, charities, food banks, .... now try and find a muslim food bank, a sumerian food bank, a atheist food bank... maybe there are one or two... but WE followers of Jesus Christ that adhere to love your neighbor fulfill the LAW OF JESUS...

Find all the bad examples you wish - But we are coming to the end and Jesus will be back - THAT IS HOW I LIVE MY LIFE... not in fear but in joy... and if I did not care, I would not tell people to repent and turn from their evil ways...

I care.. hate me, call me names, criticism my faith...I will still prayer for you


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Maine-Marine said:


> I never said that.... to be honest - In another post - I point out that you are on the road to hell.


I am NOT going to New Jersey.


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> I never said that.... to be honest - In another post - I point out that you are on the road to hell.


So then.....you're NOT denying that you think you're going to heaven and YOU THINK the poor saps that disagree with you and reject your "Christ" are going to hell?

Because that does indeed mean that you think you're better than them--whether you want to admit it or not.

That's why some Christians are so offensive to others. Sort of works against their holier than thou "I'll pray for you" image.

Think about it.


----------



## Slippy

I have faith that my current prayer will be answered and a certain someone ^^ would just shut the hell up! Let it go frostbut and lets talk about bashing some muslimes.

Thanks


----------



## Slippy

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I am NOT going to New Jersey.


Now that's the old Salty that we know and love...and it was funny!


----------



## Smitty901

Just reading headlines on line after a busy day in the field. If there is no God we are screwed


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> look at the number of Christian food pantries, hospitals, charities, food banks, .... now try and find a muslim food bank, a sumerian food bank, a atheist food bank... maybe there are one or two... but WE followers of Jesus Christ that adhere to love your neighbor fulfill the LAW OF JESUS...


Look at all the mansions, limousines, mistresses, fancy churches, "ministers" in fancy suits with their own jet airplanes, robbed widows, the pope's hat, the dead Muslims, the worldwide theft of land by missionaries, the rape of primitive cultures, the "Indian" schools, the "Indian" genocide, fake healings, fake miracles, the slave trade, lies and liars, the crusades, the political agendas, the racism, the support of Zionism and the genocide against Palestinians, the incredible proliferation of wars of conquest and oppression, the obesity, the divorce, the child molesters......oh yeah, Christianity has been a gift to mankind.

:68::68::68:


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> So then.....you're NOT denying that you think you're going to heaven and YOU THINK the poor saps that disagree with you and reject your "Christ" are going to hell?
> 
> Because that does indeed mean that you think you're better than them--whether you want to admit it or not.
> 
> That's why some Christians are so offensive to others. Sort of works against their holier than thou "I'll pray for you" image.
> 
> Think about it.


Since the bible clearly tells us that some are going to suffer eternal damnation - I would be another half hearted follower if I did not believe that.

Jesus is not going to force anybody to be with him...

Going to heaven has nothing to do with being better... better is a human term... it is about holiness and following the leader - Jesus.. Jesus warned about hell... You have been warned. You know that is a teaching of the faith. SO why does it bother you sooooo much -

Frankly - REAL CHRISTIANS (yep I said real Christians) do not follow Jesus for the reward (or lack of punishment) they follow him because they love him and know he is worthy of all praise and worship.

Some christians are offensive to people becuase they do not want to bend to every moral change that happens every 5 years.

I hear a lot of people say that they do not go to church because of the hypocrites.. yet they still shop at walmart, go to movies, and bars... like there are no hypocrites there.

Again Jesus is not going to force anybody to be with him... so hell.. yep, it is a real place...Jesus is not sending anybody there...


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> Look at all the mansions, limousines, mistresses, fancy churches, "ministers" in fancy suits with their own jet airplanes, robbed widows, the pope's hat, the dead Muslims, the worldwide theft of land by missionaries, the rape of primitive cultures, the "Indian" schools, the "Indian" genocide, fake healings, fake miracles, the slave trade, lies and liars, the crusades, the political agendas, the racism, the support of Zionism and the genocide against Palestinians, the incredible proliferation of wars of conquest and oppression, the obesity, the divorce, the child molesters......oh yeah, Christianity has been a gift to mankind.
> 
> :68::68::68:


Most intelligent people can look at a person and see if they are living for Jesus... WAIT FOR IT - even Jesus said "YOU shall know them by their fruit"

Hitler CLAIMED to be a Christian...do we think he was.. NO ME

Show me one place in the bible where JESUS told his followers to kill, steal, rape, murder, just one place

oh and old testament - yep God got rid of some real bad groups.. Praise God


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> Since the bible clearly tells us that some are going to suffer eternal damnation - I would be another half hearted follower if I did not believe that.
> 
> Jesus is not going to force anybody to be with him...
> 
> Going to heaven has nothing to do with being better... better is a human term... it is about holiness and following the leader - Jesus.. Jesus warned about hell... You have been warned. You know that is a teaching of the faith. SO why does it bother you sooooo much -
> 
> Frankly - REAL CHRISTIANS (yep I said real Christians) do not follow Jesus for the reward (or lack of punishment) they follow him because they love him and know he is worthy of all praise and worship.
> 
> Some christians are offensive to people becuase they do not want to bend to every moral change that happens every 5 years.
> 
> I hear a lot of people say that they do not go to church because of the hypocrites.. yet they still shop at walmart, go to movies, and bars... like there are no hypocrites there.
> 
> Again Jesus is not going to force anybody to be with him... so hell.. yep, it is a real place...Jesus is not sending anybody there...


That's it......the smug, holier than thou attitude.

Thanks for sharing it.

I CAN agree with one thing......Jesus is not sending anybody to hell.

:armata_PDT_12:


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> Show me one place in the bible where JESUS told his followers to kill, steal, rape, murder.....


That's why it's so amazing that Christians have consistently and historically done exactly those things......and more.

Jesus would laugh at their lies and hypocrisy.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> That's why it's so amazing that Christians have consistently and historically done exactly those things......and more.
> 
> Jesus would laugh at their lies and hypocrisy.


So you agree that the folks are not real Christians - thanks


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> I CAN agree with one thing......Jesus is not sending anybody to hell.


exactly - they send themselves by their own will


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> So you agree that the folks are not real Christians - thanks


Since "Christ" is a myth invented by the crooked liar called Saul/Paul.....there is really no such thing as a "real" Christian.

Just a bunch of greedy folks who turn a blind eye to the theft and murder, rape, imprisonment, oppression and exploitation of vulnerable people......or worse, do it themselves.

But they are so outwardly righteous......and they PRAY for us sinners.

Deep down, they know what they are.


----------



## Camel923

Lets put it this way if the non believers are right, no one will know. If the Christians are right, we will all know. Think about that. Death can be liberating.


----------



## bigwheel

Frostbite said:


> Look at all the mansions, limousines, mistresses, fancy churches, "ministers" in fancy suits with their own jet airplanes, robbed widows, the pope's hat, the dead Muslims, the worldwide theft of land by missionaries, the rape of primitive cultures, the "Indian" schools, the "Indian" genocide, fake healings, fake miracles, the slave trade, lies and liars, the crusades, the political agendas, the racism, the support of Zionism and the genocide against Palestinians, the incredible proliferation of wars of conquest and oppression, the obesity, the divorce, the child molesters......oh yeah, Christianity has been a gift to mankind.
> :68::68::68:


That is the best vitriolic puke session I have heard in a long time. Congrats. You seem to have covered all the bases..but as with your Daddy Satan/Allah you are attempting to put a pint of poison in a lake of truth. We aint going to drink none of it sorry. We do not cast our Pearls before swine.


----------



## bigwheel

Frostbite said:


> Since "Christ" is a myth invented by the crooked liar called Saul/Paul.....there is really no such thing as a "real" Christian.
> 
> Just a bunch of greedy folks who turn a blind eye to the theft and murder, rape, imprisonment, oppression and exploitation of vulnerable people......or worse, do it themselves.
> 
> But they are so outwardly righteous......and they PRAY for us sinners.
> 
> Deep down, they know what they are.


We know you are a spawn of the Devil aka Allah.


----------



## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> Since "Christ" is a myth invented by the crooked liar called Saul/Paul.....there is really no such thing as a "real" Christian.
> 
> Just a bunch of greedy folks who turn a blind eye to the theft and murder, rape, imprisonment, oppression and exploitation of vulnerable people......or worse, do it themselves.
> 
> But they are so outwardly righteous......and they PRAY for us sinners.
> 
> Deep down, they know what they are.


In order to know what is a lie you have to know the truth..

A real Christian is one that lives his life based on the teachings of Jesus who was the Christ - You can say there are no real Christians all you want you can also say red is blue.. does not change the truth

Deep down..lol..on the surface we know we are sinful people unworthy of what we have been gifted... All Christians know they are the lowest of low...compared to our standard we are dirt...

AND - Christ was know in the Old testament long before saul


----------



## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> Deep down..lol..on the surface we know we are sinful people unworthy of what we have been gifted... All Christians know they are the lowest of low...compared to our standard we are dirt...


Low self-esteem is the greatest friend of those who would convert people to Christianity. That's a well-known fact.

Thanks for demonstrating it.


----------



## littleblackdevil

My family is religious and I grew up going to church. It never really resonated with me. I just never believed in it. I usually keep it to myself because I worry that it would affect my relationship with people that do believe. Im really happy for the people that have faith. I hope that you don't think less of me. I was raised to be a man of character. That was always something that made sense.


----------



## bigwheel

I am fixing to introduce all you muzzie goat humpers over to Mr. Twit Filter. Come to Texas and we will feed you to the hogs.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Maine-Marine said:


> I never said that.... to be honest - In another post - I point out that you are on the road to hell.





Frostbite said:


> So then.....you're NOT denying that you think you're going to heaven and YOU THINK the poor saps that disagree with you and reject your "Christ" are going to hell?
> 
> Because that does indeed mean that you think you're better than them--whether you want to admit it or not.
> 
> That's why some Christians are so offensive to others. Sort of works against their holier than thou "I'll pray for you" image.
> 
> Think about it.


My reply was MUCH more funny&#8230;


----------



## TacticalCanuck

I had hoped this thread wouldn't go this way. Religion is so touchy a subject. OP wanted to know if faith plays a role in your life as a prepper. To say that you have a faith and what it is is cool. To say you don't have faith and it plays no role in your life as a prepper is also cool. But none of this other crap is. The men who wanted to use Christianity as a means to control through making it a religion where they were allowed to punish others for their own ends speaks not to Christianity or religion but to the primal underhanded selfish controlling nature of MAN. There are other men that have used religions and have succeeded in doing the same.

Religion is like a gun. It's a tool. And how you use it defines the nature of nothing more than yourself. Some use it for protection and self sustenance and perseverance. Some use it to kill and cause harm. 

Religion isn't for me. But to have faith? None of this religious stuff matters.


----------



## bigwheel

Religion always brings failure and death. Jesus came to give life and it more abundant. True Christianity has nothing to do with religion..it's all about a Relationship with The Founder. He is coming back soon to collect His Bride. Best get ready or be left behind.


----------



## Frostbite

bigwheel said:


> Religion always brings failure and death. Jesus came to give life and it more abundant. True Christianity has nothing to do with religion..it's all about a Relationship with The Founder. He is coming back soon to collect His Bride. Best get ready or be left behind.


Yeah......like they haven't been saying that for 2000 years.

:armata_PDT_12:

Yes, that was Two THOUSAND.

Years.

:armata_PDT_12:


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## bigwheel

Yes its been on the drawing board for a while. Good point. Let me run this by since you seem to know what is what. Christianity is guilt base and Islam is shamed based. Is that right?


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## firefighter72

I'm a christian, and I carry a pocket bible with me and say grace before I eat meals. I do need to work on prying more, but that's about it. I use to have a pocket bible in my bob, but I gave it to someone who needed it far more then I did.


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## Frostbite

bigwheel said:


> Yes its been on the drawing board for a while. Good point. Let me run this by since you seem to know what is what. Christianity is guilt base and Islam is shamed based. Is that right?


No, they're both based on the Old Testament.

That means they're based on talking snakes, giants, stoning, Noah's ark.......

I don't know what those Jews were smoking around the campfire as they made up those stories, but it must have been pretty powerful stuff.

:armata_PDT_12:


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## Slippy

An oldie but a goodie, The Winchester Model 94 Carbine in .30-.30...much better to look at than the bullshat spewed previously from you know who...


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## bigwheel

Nice gun. Not sure how we got infiltrated by the goat humpers. It dont seem right.


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## Slippy

I don't understand either, but when I get back to South Dakota the prairie dogs gonna meet my newest leetle friend;


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## Maine-Marine

Frostbite said:


> No, they're both based on the Old Testament.


unlike your faith which is based on reading tea leaves and bird droppings????


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## bigwheel

Now now Slippy. Prarie Dogs are God's Creatures too. Cut them some slack. Shoot beer cans.


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## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> unlike your faith which is based on reading tea leaves and bird droppings????


Oh damn......now he's going all intellectual on me!!!


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## Denton

Frostbite said:


> Yeah......like they haven't been saying that for 2000 years.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:
> 
> Yes, that was Two THOUSAND.
> 
> Years.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


Absolutely, they have been looking for it since Jesus ascended. There were many mysteries they didn't understand, however. Many of the things that were not possible in Paul's life, and some of the things had not happened, yet. For example, until recently, the entire world would not have been able to see the deaths of the prophets and would not have been able to give gifts to one another. An example of something that had yet to happen was the explosion of knowledge that happened relatively recently.

Now, having said this, I can tell you who are not the ones to ask where we are on the time line. Don't ask the ones who are willing to give you the answers - if you buy their books. I am sure you can see the reason for that. Another one you should not trust is me. While I do not charge money for my thoughts, I am probably as inaccurate as those selling books. :highly_amused:

If you are hell-bent for leather to do one or the other, pick me. At least I won't charge you for my inaccurate thoughts.

Oh, and do it via PM. Work has me tired out and I do not feel like engaging in long-winded discussions. Working outside in the cold seems to be taking the wind out of me this year.


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## Slippy

Denton said:


> ...Working outside in the cold seems to be taking the wind out of me this year.


Sounds like you need to check out a brand new Barrett 98B in .338 Lapua Magnum to get your wind back!


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## Frostbite

Ummmm.......I don't need help on this one, Denton......it's obvious that he ain't coming back.

That whole myth was an invention of the imaginative Saul/Paul and his disciple Luke......who were apparently eating goofy mushrooms or something.

And hey, you don't have to wear yourself out in these long-winded discussions!!!

Seems like there's plenty of folks who have an excess of wind.....so you can relax.

I'd PM, but hey, that would spoil it for all those who didn't get to see my posts.

:armata_PDT_12:


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## Slippy

Frostbite said:


> Ummmm.......I don't need help on this one, Denton......it's obvious that he ain't coming back.
> 
> That whole myth was an invention of the imaginative Saul/Paul and his disciple Luke......who were apparently eating goofy mushrooms or something.
> 
> And hey, you don't have to wear yourself out in these long-winded discussions!!!
> 
> Seems like there's plenty of folks who have an excess of wind.....so you can relax.
> 
> I'd PM, but hey, that would spoil it for all those who didn't get to see my posts.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


PLEASE, PLEASE PM Denton or anyone else for that matter...and spare the rest of us your incessant babble. PLEASE, I BEG YOU.


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## Denton

Frostbite said:


> Ummmm.......I don't need help on this one, Denton......it's obvious that he ain't coming back.
> 
> That whole myth was an invention of the imaginative Saul/Paul and his disciple Luke......who were apparently eating goofy mushrooms or something.
> 
> And hey, you don't have to wear yourself out in these long-winded discussions!!!
> 
> Seems like there's plenty of folks who have an excess of wind.....so you can relax.
> 
> I'd PM, but hey, that would spoil it for all those who didn't get to see my posts.
> 
> :armata_PDT_12:


So, you are saying you _like_ discussing taboo topics at the dinner table?

I'll bet you toted a few butt-whuppins as a youngun. I can't throw rocks about that....:black_eyed:

I figured I was helping my father maintain an exercise program


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## Charles Martel

I'm late to this discussion, but, here goes.

I've never been a particularly "religious" guy. I was raised Mormon, and still go to church with my family (who are still true believing members of that faith) but consider myself more of a general practitioner of the teachings of Jesus Christ. I don't pretend to know whether he was truly god incarnate, but, I see the wisdom and greatness in his philosophy and in his example. 

In my assessment, churches and denominations are created by men. I have no real preference towards any of them...I'll happily commune and worship with any person or group of people who strive to live good, moral lives while respecting the lives and liberty of others. Whether in a stone cathedral in the south of France, a Shinto temple in Japan, or sitting around a campfire discussing the mysteries of creation with my buddies, I don't get hung up on doctrine or dogma. 

I became somewhat atheistic during college. The process of becoming a trained scientist rewired me for a time. It took me a few years to return to my spiritual center, but, I think I've come around. I think "faith" (whatever form it takes) is an integral component to a balanced life.


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## Deebo

Haven't read this thread, only this page, all I can add is I BELIEVE!
If you don't, I have nothing against you. And I'm not gonna backtrack and read fourteen pages on my phone. 
All I can add is, is I'm wrong, I've lost nothing. 
If your wrong, you have lost everything.


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## Denton

Deebo said:


> Haven't read this thread, only this page, all I can add is I BELIEVE!
> If you don't, I have nothing against you. And I'm not gonna backtrack and read fourteen pages on my phone.
> All I can add is, is I'm wrong, I've lost nothing.
> If your wrong, you have lost everything.


How does your faith assist you in your day to day life? How will it help you in bad times?


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## Frostbite

Denton said:


> So, you are saying you _like_ discussing taboo topics at the dinner table?
> 
> I'll bet you toted a few butt-whuppins as a youngun. I can't throw rocks about that....:black_eyed:
> 
> I figured I was helping my father maintain an exercise program


Actually, my dad was worse than me.......he gave the preacher absolute FITS with his questions (that the preacher couldn't answer).

Such subjects were never taboo at our dinner table.....in fact, they were standard intellectual fare along with many other fascinating topics.

When I was 12 the preacher kicked me out of confirmation class for asking questions he couldn't answer.

This apple never fell far from the tree, I guess.......thank God.

:armata_PDT_12:


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## Frostbite

Deebo said:


> Haven't read this thread, only this page, all I can add is I BELIEVE!
> If you don't, I have nothing against you. And I'm not gonna backtrack and read fourteen pages on my phone.
> All I can add is, is I'm wrong, I've lost nothing.
> If your wrong, you have lost everything.


I think that if you really trust in a loving God......you KNOW you're not going to lose ANYTHING.

:icon_smile:


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## Slippy

Steyr AUG A3M1


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## Frostbite

I wants me one of THEM!!!


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## Slippy

This one is sweet too. Funny story, a number of years ago a very good friend of mine wanted to buy a handgun. He had plenty of hunting rifles but knew virtually nothing about handguns so he asked me to go the LGS with him. He is a VERY successful small business owner but not much in the way of looks. Overweight, shirt tail always hanging out, hair not combed, one shoe often untied...that kinda guy. But one of the best men that I know.

Anyway, we go to the first gun store and no-one gives my buddy the time of day. So we go to the next store and the owner comes out and takes a lot of time helping my buddy out, very patient etc. So my buddy walks out of the 2nd gun store with an Ed Brown 1911. He looks at me and says, lets have some fun...so we go to the first gun store, my buddy asks for the owner and when the owner comes out he proceeds to give him the "dont judge a book by its cover" customer relations lecture and then shows him the Ed Brown that he bought down the street.

He has since gone on to buy multiple guns, ammo and accessores from the 2nd shop and has a lifetime friend in the owner.


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## Frostbite

Appreciate the luscious gun porn pictures.

Lust can be fun.

Unfortunately, I already have too many guns.


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## Jakthesoldier

It's time to put a stop to this conversation as it stands now. 

Let me reiterate that this is for posting your own personal beliefs. Not for arguing. Not for degrading, not for validating or invalidating. 

I tried to let it go for a bit, and even broke my own rules at one point in the interest of attempting to quell some of the squabble. It didn't work. So once again, leave each other alone. Just what you put your own personal faith into, not whether someone else is right or wrong. If the thread diverts again, I will ask that it be taken down. 

I understand that for some of you this subject comes with some internal need to make others believe what you believe. Please abstain from satiating that need here. PM them if you must.


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## Maine-Marine

My faith will require me to share food with anybody that knocks on my door...


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## Maine-Marine

Slippy said:


> This one is sweet too. Funny story, a number of years ago a very good friend of mine wanted to buy a handgun. He had plenty of hunting rifles but knew virtually nothing about handguns so he asked me to go the LGS with him. He is a VERY successful small business owner but not much in the way of looks. Overweight, shirt tail always hanging out, hair not combed, one shoe often untied...that kinda guy. But one of the best men that I know.
> 
> Anyway, we go to the first gun store and no-one gives my buddy the time of day. So we go to the next store and the owner comes out and takes a lot of time helping my buddy out, very patient etc. So my buddy walks out of the 2nd gun store with an Ed Brown 1911. He looks at me and says, lets have some fun...so we go to the first gun store, my buddy asks for the owner and when the owner comes out he proceeds to give him the "dont judge a book by its cover" customer relations lecture and then shows him the Ed Brown that he bought down the street.
> 
> He has since gone on to buy multiple guns, ammo and accessores from the 2nd shop and has a lifetime friend in the owner.


One of my friends in the Marines joined at an older age after his wife and daughter were killed by a drunk driver. He owned a specialty tool and die show which is dad took over running for him.

he was an E-3 and went out to buy a Harley after a couple of years of no ride. The guy ask him what rank he was and then told him he could not afford it.... LOL - he had his accountant wire him $35,000 - and he went back and talked to the original dealership before buying from another one...


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## Salt-N-Pepper

Maine-Marine said:


> My faith will require me to share food with anybody that knocks on my door...


And that would be where, exactly? I could use a bite...


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## Frostbite

Even me? What's your address?

:armata_PDT_12:


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## Maine-Marine

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> And that would be where, exactly? I could use a bite...


Look for the old fashioned large black milk jug at the end of the road, a pallet wood shed, small creek runs under the road, white dodge caravan... you can not miss us - we are only a few minutes from the guarded front gate (Which will be abandoned come SHTF)


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## 6811

Ralph Rotten said:


> Allah Allah Akbar
> Translation: God is good


I believe its allahu akbar


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## 6811

Charles Martel said:


> I'm late to this discussion, but, here goes.
> 
> I've never been a particularly "religious" guy. I was raised Mormon, and still go to church with my family (who are still true believing members of that faith) but consider myself more of a general practitioner of the teachings of Jesus Christ. I don't pretend to know whether he was truly god incarnate, but, I see the wisdom and greatness in his philosophy and in his example.
> 
> In my assessment, churches and denominations are created by men. I have no real preference towards any of them...I'll happily commune and worship with any person or group of people who strive to live good, moral lives while respecting the lives and liberty of others. Whether in a stone cathedral in the south of France, a Shinto temple in Japan, or sitting around a campfire discussing the mysteries of creation with my buddies, I don't get hung up on doctrine or dogma.
> 
> I became somewhat atheistic during college. The process of becoming a trained scientist rewired me for a time. It took me a few years to return to my spiritual center, but, I think I've come around. I think "faith" (whatever form it takes) is an integral component to a balanced life.


well said...


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## Deebo

Denton said:


> How does your faith assist you in your day to day life? How will it help you in bad times?


Everyday, when I wake up, I know I'm blessed. My faith assists me, knowing that the two serious fires I lived through, and the drug induced stupid lifestyle, (where I buried three friends), and all my dumb mistakes have been nothing except a MIRACLE. 
I believe that MY GOD died for my sins, that all I have done and the many people I have hurt have been forgiven. 
As far as bad times, to me, there really aren't many bad times, when I get downtrodden, I just remember my little buddy Hunter, born with twisted up deformed legs, to a drug using mother. When that young man smiles, and says 'Uncle Donnie, can I drive your truck again?", I remember my problems ain't so bad. I have my health, my family, food and a warm place to lay my head.
Is it possible that its all becouse of me?
Is it possible that its all becouse of Occums razor theory? 
Is it possible that I was just lucky?
I don't know, I may never know. 
I personally feel that organized religion is about money, but Faith is about the heart and soul.


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## Maine-Marine

Deebo said:


> I personally feel that organized religion is about money, but Faith is about the heart and soul.


is disorganized religion better....


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## Frostbite

Maine-Marine said:


> is disorganized religion better....?


Way, way better.

The more efficient they are, the more widows they can rob.


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## Denton

Frostbite said:


> Way, way better.
> 
> The more efficient they are, the more widows they can rob.


Considering the examples that are probably bouncing in your head (Robert Tilton comes to mind), I suspect you are referring to Christianity.

People are taken because they are not able to separate the shepherds from the wolves. That is to say, they prefer to let others tell them what to think and do instead of learning for themselves.

"Organized religion," if it means church, is not supposed to be where one gets their training; it is supposed to be a place of fellowship and praise, and the sermons are to remind us of what we already know.


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## Frostbite

Denton said:


> Considering the examples that are probably bouncing in your head (Robert Tilton comes to mind), I suspect you are referring to Christianity.
> People are taken because they are not able to separate the shepherds from the wolves.


Oh, there are so many, many examples of sleazy scum.......here's just ten or so of the absolute worst.

10 Crazy Quotes From Televangelists | 'I Am NOT Ashamed of the Gospel of Christ!'

But there are thousands......how can you tell the shepherds from the wolves when they're all wolves?

I respect only the ones who refuse to accept any money......at least they know the true value of their work.


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## Jakthesoldier

Way off topic here guys. Feel free to discuss this on the thread created for debating the content of this thread. Last time I'm gonna ask.


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## Deebo

Jakthesoldier said:


> I'm curious how religion/spiritual beliefs play into y'all's day to day activities.
> 
> Before anyone comments, at the first sign of someone bashing anyone else's faith or belief structure I will report my own thread and do what I must to have it removed (Mods feel free to close this if it heads that way PLEASE)
> 
> What faiths do y'all follow? How do your beliefs play into your lifestyle? Does your faith contradict your lifestyle, and if so how do you reconcile that with yourself?
> 
> No judgements, just curious.


Seems you ask a question, people answer it.
I will not read a 20 page post on my phone, head hurts too much. 
I chimed in, with what I feel was my answer, without reading the o.p. Sorry. 
So my modified answer is, 
I'm not in a category, other than Believer. 
My day to day effect of my belief is from the bible. I try to be a good person, father, uncle, husband, and try to remember to give thanks to MY GOD everyday.


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## bigwheel

Denton said:


> Considering the examples that are probably bouncing in your head (Robert Tilton comes to mind), I suspect you are referring to Christianity.
> 
> People are taken because they are not able to separate the shepherds from the wolves. That is to say, they prefer to let others tell them what to think and do instead of learning for themselves.
> 
> "Organized religion," if it means church, is not supposed to be where one gets their training; it is supposed to be a place of fellowship and praise, and the sermons are to remind us of what we already know.


Well I have a bit of different take on Jilton Tilton. When I first got saved I was working mids. I was ravenous for anything to feed on Spirtually and Tilton was one of the few shows on TV which met the need. One day he said he was going to pray for folks who had hurt shoulders. I had one tore up pretty good from lifting weights the wrong way..then it nearly got healed and I got into some serious arm wrestling with a strong drunk at a party..so it was tore up worse. Could not raise it above shoulder high. Anyway I laid my hand on the TV as instructed..and Tilton started quoting applicable Bible verses concerning healing. Swear it felt like a big Owl swooped down and grabbed that sore shoulder with its giant talons and sunk in the claws sorta mixed up with taking a ride on the electric chair. Anyway when the smoke cleared and the pain died out that shoulder was as good as new. So guess the moral of the tale is I dont give credit to Tilton for the shoulder getting healed...but I do think the Word of God does not return to Him void..as in failing to accomplish what He intends. It dont matter too much on who utters it. Thats the only way I could interpret the situaition. I still love Bob. I have one of his prayer clothes around here somewhere. Only have to send in five bucks..lol.


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## Frostbite

Five dollars here, five dollars there......pretty soon it adds up to a Mercedes limo and a jet airplane.

Funny how that works.

Over and over and over again.

My faith, however.....works for me because they never ask for money.


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## Slippy

Jakthesoldier said:


> Way off topic here guys. Feel free to discuss this on the thread created for debating the content of this thread. Last time I'm gonna ask.


Damn straight. These fools cannot stay on topic so...Behold Smith & Wesson .500 SW Magnum!


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## bigwheel

Mighty pretty. I want a scope on mine.


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## Charles Martel

Slippy said:


> Damn straight. These fools cannot stay on topic so...Behold Smith & Wesson .500 SW Magnum!


I will have one of those...eventually.

In the mean time, I'm having a hard time resisting this:









Chambered in .556, accepts AR magazines but is still an AK. I think I'm going to SBR one.


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## bigwheel

Is that legal?


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