# Surburban prepping #4



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Now for the protection part. You will hear many people tell you many things about self-protection. Besides being armed, you need self-defense training unless you are ex-military. This to me would be the most vital part of self-defense. You can own as many guns as you want but if you’re not proficient at it, it will do you little good. Along with the training is practice, practice, practice. One thing to keep in mind, there are more varieties of guns than you can imagine. 

A little about me. I learned how to shoot at the age of 14. A friend’s father taught me to shoot a .410 and I have been into shooting since. I am now mid 60’s. Most of my shooting was handguns with a few shotguns tossed in and an occasional rifle. Since that first lesson, most everything I know is self taught. I wasn’t very good with rifles so I rarely used one. I did shoot competition for a while and actually won 3rd place once. But, then again, only 3 of us showed up. I really did it because it helped me get better. About 5 years ago, I did take a few classes and the instructor told me I wasn’t bad and we worked on honing the skills I had acquired.

I did shoot skeet and sporting clays for a few years but the range I was using closed down. I haven’t done it since.

Rifles are fairly new to me. A friend brought over an AR-15 he had bought that day and I liked it. I found a range not too far away that had beginner’s classes and we both took the class. He was new to this too. The owner of the range loaned me a gun, I took the first class and had my first ever AR the following weekend. We also took the intermediate class. Damn, both were fun! 

As I see it there are 3 basics needed. A reliable handgun, shotgun and rifle. Each of these have a different purpose.
To me, handguns are for home and away protection. Away as keeping one in the car or for carrying. I do have a concealed carry permit. Many ranges now have ex-military trainers and the trainers I have talked to and trained with are good, patient people. I can’t stress training enough. If and when an ugly situation happens, that’s when your training will kick in. The more training you get with any weapon, the better off you will be. I personally prefer outdoor ranges but that’s just me. If you’re new at this, visit a few ranges and talk to them. Find one you feel good about. A lot of ranges also sell guns which means they also have rental guns. You can try these before you buy one. 

Shotguns can have several purposes. They make a decent home defense weapon as well as giving you the ability to feed yourself. Not so good for squirrels and rabbits but birds. You can use these for larger game if you’re using slugs. I am not an expert on hunting but I’m sure there are many here who are and will be willing to help if you have questions.

If it does get ugly and you have to be in a fire fight, here is where a good rifle comes in. If I had to be in a fight like that, I would much rather it be a rifle than a handgun. Again, get decent training and practice, practice, practice. Street gangs are sending guys to the military for training. They aren’t sending everyone but enough so they can come back and train others. You need training too if you’re going to stand against them. With a decent rifle or two, you can also feed yourself with larger game.
You will hear, and it has been and will be discussed on this board and in other places about what ammo to have. There are as many opinions as there are guns available. I have given this a lot of thought. Most, if not all of us, think it will get ugly at some point. When that happens there will be ammo and guns left behind. My personal opinion is the most common will be 9mm, .45ACP, 12ga, 223/5.56 and 30.06. Yes, there will be others but I believe these will be the most common.

Whatever you decide, get proficient. Then get better. If you’re already proficient, then start getting better. I still can’t stress training enough. If you don’t think this is true, look at the next police shooting. They don’t get enough training usually and you will see many rounds fired with only a few hits. I don’t blame this on the officers, that is a department decision. I found that my local police department is only required to train once a year with only 50 rounds per training/requalification.


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

I am going to add to your list of what guns you should have , there is one you didn't put down on your list , " a .22 for small game " or you can use it to protect your self to . yes you can use traps , snares , for small game " you have to do the waiting game for them " . I have a question for you Incepter: will you do a post on how a person can protect them self if they are in a power chair and they do not have a gun on them ?


----------



## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Targetshooter said:


> I am going to add to your list of what guns you should have , there is one you didn't put down on your list , " a .22 for small game " or you can use it to protect your self to . yes you can use traps , snares , for small game " you have to do the waiting game for them " . I have a question for you Incepter: will you do a post on how a person can protect them self if they are in a power chair and they do not have a gun on them ?


I'll add another - a .22/.177 cal pellet gun .... besides the cost factor there'll be times when the "crack" of a .22 rifle or the "boom" of the 12g won't be a smart move ....


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

A shotgun is great for squirrels and rabbits. Buckshot works great for deer, no slugs required of your in range. Who told you different ?


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Targetshooter said:


> I am going to add to your list of what guns you should have , there is one you didn't put down on your list , " a .22 for small game " or you can use it to protect your self to . yes you can use traps , snares , for small game " you have to do the waiting game for them " . I have a question for you Incepter: will you do a post on how a person can protect them self if they are in a power chair and they do not have a gun on them ?


I have never considered that one. Let me do some research and see what I come up with. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

ETA: Thanks guys. I have a .22 and didn't even think about it. But I also knew that anything I forgot, y'all would be kind enough to jump in and bring it up


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Operator6 said:


> A shotgun is great for squirrels and rabbits. Buckshot works great for deer, no slugs required of your in range. Who told you different ?


It's been so long, I really don't remember. I am not a hunter, I think I stated that but just in case here it is. I've only been once many years ago and I missed. It could have been because I didn't test the scope before I went. Back then, I had no idea you needed to do that. This is one of the reasons for training. You learn what you had no idea what you need to know.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

inceptor said:


> I have never considered that one. Let me do some research and see what I come up with. Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.
> 
> ETA: Thanks guys. I have a .22 and didn't even think about it. But I also knew that anything I forgot, y'all would be kind enough to jump in and bring it u


There are .22's and .22's. One thing to keep in mind is that regardless of caliber you should have a sidearm with you at all times (both waking and sleeping hours) and that after a while a 2 1/2 pound pistol (1911 or M-92 or S&W 38/357 revolver) will seem like a real PITA (pain in the ---) and you'll end up not having it with you when you need one.

Of the .22's currently on the market today that are light enough to carry all day and large enough to shoot accurately (say a squirrel or bunny out to 20 yards) you're limited to a Ruger SR-22, a Bersa .22 or a Walther PPK/s. All are affordable and light enough to carry all day and will get the job done about 95% of the time. And yes, I've had to use a similar pistol (an American Arms PPK clone in .22) to dispatch a wounded deer and all it took was one round in the ear hole.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Adjust the 22lr to a suppressed 22 rifle. You can use it for a lot more then you think. I've seen deer shot, dropped and killed with a well placed 22lr. 
If you need a 12ga your tactics suck.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Chipper said:


> Adjust the 22lr to a suppressed 22 rifle. You can use it for a lot more then you think. I've seen deer shot, dropped and killed with a well placed 22lr.
> If you need a 12ga your tactics suck.


You are right that the baddies have gotten way too close, but there's nothing to beat the sound of a 12 ga pump being racked to cause a persons sphincter to loosten up severely


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Let me explain something here. I am not an expert on anything. The only real writing I have done was column on automotive in a rural newspaper when I lived in Colorado. That was a lot of years ago. The reason for the posts I have written so far is because of the number of city folks are growing. There is little information here for these people. Just because I'm having to learn on my own doesn't mean others have to.

You see, there are some here that think city people should just give it up. Well, I don't believe that. Just giving up to me is not an option. It's just not in my nature.

I am sharing what I have learned through trial and error. A fair amount of this I'm still learning. I just wanted to pass on what I am doing and learning about. Like yesterday I came across an article about natures natural control for harmful insects. A little later this morning I will be picking up some dill, thyme and rosemary to plant in my raised bed garden. These herbs are supposed to be a great pest control so I'm giving it a try.


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> There are .22's and .22's. One thing to keep in mind is that regardless of caliber you should have a sidearm with you at all times (both waking and sleeping hours) and that after a while a 2 1/2 pound pistol (1911 or M-92 or S&W 38/357 revolver) will seem like a real PITA (pain in the ---) and you'll end up not having it with you when you need one.
> 
> Of the .22's currently on the market today that are light enough to carry all day and large enough to shoot accurately (say a squirrel or bunny out to 20 yards) you're limited to a Ruger SR-22, a Bersa .22 or a Walther PPK/s. All are affordable and light enough to carry all day and will get the job done about 95% of the time. And yes, I've had to use a similar pistol (an American Arms PPK clone in .22) to dispatch a wounded deer and all it took was one round in the ear hole.


I have harvest a 200 lb. deer ,a 185 lb. wild hog and tons of small game with a .22LR. it's all in how will you can shoot and how far they are from you . Browning makes a very good .22 " Buck Mark " it may be on the heavy side but , I think you can have better control that way . jmho .


----------



## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Don't discount the 12 gauge shotgun, it has a lot going for it. First and foremost its legal pretty well everywhere in the United States with the exception of some configurations//actions. Secondly who cares about the sound the pump makes, I like the fact that no matter how big the dude is or how much dope he's smoked, or what dope he's smoked 1 slug or 00 buck shell directly to the chest is going to end the fight. Not to mention that its capable of taking any game from fowl to grizzly bear.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Targetshooter said:


> I have harvest a 200 lb. deer ,a 185 lb. wild hog and tons of small game with a .22LR. it's all in how will you can shoot and how far they are from you . Browning makes a very good .22 " Buck Mark " it may be on the heavy side but , I think you can have better control that way . jmho .


Owned a Iver Johnson copy of the colt woodsman series and still wish I had it


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> Of the .22's currently on the market today that are light enough to carry all day and large enough to shoot accurately (say a squirrel or bunny out to 20 yards) you're limited to a Ruger SR-22, a Bersa .22 or a Walther PPK/s. All are affordable and light enough to carry all day and will get the job done about 95% of the time.


What about the Ruger MK series pistols and Browning Buckmark.......or a .22 conversion slide for a Glock,etc. ?


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Operator6 said:


> What about the Ruger MK series pistols and Browning Buckmark.......or a .22 conversion slide for a Glock,etc. ?


Haven't tried them. They do appear to be a bit larger (quite often I carry my PPK/s (old model) or FEG SMC 22 in the back pocket of my jeans or cargo pants) and are single action only. While I've carried single action autos in the past, I'm not as comfortable with them as I ma with a double action / single action type pistol.

The ruger and browning also appear to be a bit more expensive than the three I noted. As for the new PPK/s, I had one about a year ago and while not as nice as my late 70's version, was a very neat inexpensive pistol that liked just about anything I could fit into the magazine


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Good series of posts interceptor. Nothing gets an argument/discussion going like firearms or ammo selections on this forum. Your doing a terrific job.


----------



## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Everyone has an opinion. Here is what I'd consider a minimum in the order I'd purchase and why. You can always add more and bigger later but you are starting so.

-A pistol with holster small enough for easy carry but large enough to do the job for home defense, At least a 9mm or 38 special (a 38 special can shoot inexpensive 38 ammo). You can buy a hand cannon later.
-An AR because it can do everything from outside home defense to drop a bear (or a rabbit). Plan on spending at least $200 for a good sight. Suggest 5.56 caliber for a 1st gun because of the low ammo cost (a 5.56 can shoot inexpensive .223 ammo) for plenty of practice.
-A 22lr is next, ammo is cheap, practice for the wife and kids is fun, and it's perfect for small game plus defense. Nobody is going to charge your home with a bunch of 22s buzzing past their ears.
-Now you can get a pump shotgun with screw in choke. Just ask the guy in the gun store to show you what I mean. Because of the wide ammo and choke choices you can use birdshot (7 1/2 ) with no choke for defense inside the home because it usually won't shoot through a wall risking hitting a kid in the next room. Load some #4 shot with a full choke for large birds 40 yds away for supper; load some 00 buck for deer sized game within 40 yards. And for real fun load a 1 oz slug for devastating big cans of food and blasting doors.

Everyone has opinions and will give you more information than you can digest. My suggestion is to stick with the basics at first. Bigger and fancier can come later.


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> Haven't tried them. They do appear to be a bit larger (quite often I carry my PPK/s (old model) or FEG SMC 22 in the back pocket of my jeans or cargo pants) and are single action only. While I've carried single action autos in the past, I'm not as comfortable with them as I ma with a double action / single action type pistol.
> 
> The ruger and browning also appear to be a bit more expensive than the three I noted. As for the new PPK/s, I had one about a year ago and while not as nice as my late 70's version, was a very neat inexpensive pistol that liked just about anything I could fit into the magazine


The Ruger 22/45 can be bought at a better price than the Ruger SR22 at Buds......

My point was there are more than 3 choices on the market today. Plenty of .22 pistol choices out there that meet the criteria you listed.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> Good series of posts interceptor. Nothing gets an argument/discussion going like firearms or ammo selections on this forum. Your doing a terrific job.


Thank you. I'm not an expert and I figured the debate would start. It's good to get great advice like I've seen here so far. :tango_face_grin:


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I was at the Atlantic regionals for the American Marksmen completion and watched Ruger 22 pistols seize up one after another. None of the twenty shooters in my son's group made it though that portion of the contest without failure to fire, failure to feed or failure to eject issues requiring multiple restarts as everything was timed. I personally do not see the value of a 22 pistol although I have one. By the way, these new Ruger pistols where serviced by a gunsmith for reliability prior to the contest. Something was rotten in Denmark. My son had three restarts due to mechanical issues with the pistols.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Operator6 said:


> The Ruger 22/45 can be bought at a better price than the Ruger SR22 at Buds......
> 
> My point was there are more than 3 choices on the market today. Plenty of .22 pistol choices out there that meet the criteria you listed.


Agree, I''m partial to the old time pistols like the H&R 622 or the Excam RX 22, but then I've owned copies and they haven't ever let me down. In fact it was an RX 22 that finished off the wounded deer with a CCI Stinger


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

For what they are, (22lr) stingers are no joke. They scramble your brain like an egg. I had a cousin that was gut shot with a .22lr and it bounced around and came out his hip. 3 months in the hospital, infection almost him. The Dr's pulled his intestines out and put them in a bowl......went over each inch looking for bullet holes. When they're done they scoop them back up and put them back in you. Awesome huh ?


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

A lifetime ago, I had a friend who was shot in the head by his GF. When I left the north, he was still alive and kickin. His brain had been scrambled somewhat and he was never quite the same but he could still function normally.

ETA: I forgot to say she shot him with a .22


----------



## bgreed (Feb 26, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> I was at the Atlantic regionals for the American Marksmen completion and watched Ruger 22 pistols seize up one after another. None of the twenty shooters in my son's group made it though that portion of the contest without failure to fire, failure to feed or failure to eject issues requiring multiple restarts as everything was timed. I personally do not see the value of a 22 pistol although I have one. By the way, these new Ruger pistols where serviced by a gunsmith for reliability prior to the contest. Something was rotten in Denmark. My son had three restarts due to mechanical issues with the pistols.


That's called a gunsmith that doesn't know crap about how to tune a pistol for reliability.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Camel923 said:


> I was at the Atlantic regionals for the American Marksmen completion and watched Ruger 22 pistols seize up one after another. None of the twenty shooters in my son's group made it though that portion of the contest without failure to fire, failure to feed or failure to eject issues requiring multiple restarts as everything was timed. I personally do not see the value of a 22 pistol although I have one. By the way, these new Ruger pistols where serviced by a gunsmith for reliability prior to the contest. Something was rotten in Denmark. My son had three restarts due to mechanical issues with the pistols.


If you are referring to the Mid Atlantic American Marksman competition this past July in Gerrardstown, WV the pistols provided were Tac-Sol Pac Lite .22lrs. @Camel923


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> If you are referring to the Mid Atlantic American Marksman competition this past July in Gerrardstown, WV the pistols provided were Tac-Sol Pac Lite .22lrs. @Camel923


It was a modified Ruger. But yes that is the event I am referring to.

http://www.tacticalsol.com/new-products/pac-lite-complete-22lr-pistol


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Camel923 said:


> It was a modified Ruger. But yes that is the event I am referring to.
> 
> Pac-Lite Complete .22LR Pistol ? Tactical Solutions


Yah, but with that particular gun the modification constitutes " the gun "

The tactical solutions upper " pac lite " requires a FFL for transfer. @Camel923


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> Yah, but with that particular gun the modification constitutes " the gun "
> 
> The tactical solutions upper " pac lite " requires a FFL for transfer. @Camel923


Thanks for the info. To me it was a modified Ruger but I will defer to your knowledge of the subject.


----------



## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Camel923 said:


> Thanks for the info. To me it was a modified Ruger but I will defer to your knowledge of the subject.


The lower half is Ruger but it's not a FFL transfer item, the upper which is Tactical Solutions is the upper half that requires the transfer.

Exact opposite of an Ar-15 and most other guns but not all.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Remember - gunfire attracts zombies


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Targetshooter said:


> I have a question for you Incepter: will you do a post on how a person can protect them self if they are in a power chair and they do not have a gun on them ?


There are self defense courses available. I don't know how expensive they are or how many there are. I found a great blog on this during my search. I have sent a request to the lady who wrote it for permission to use this. I'm now waiting on a reply.


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

inceptor said:


> There are self defense courses available. I don't know how expensive they are or how many there are. I found a great blog on this during my search. I have sent a request to the lady who wrote it for permission to use this. I'm now waiting on a reply.


Thank you very much , will you pm me with the info ?


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Targetshooter said:


> Thank you very much , will you pm me with the info ?


I'll be happy to pm you the link.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Targetshooter said:


> Thank you very much , will you pm me with the info ?


I'll be happy to pm you the link. But 1st you're gonna have to fix this.

Targetshooter has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.


----------



## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

A thing about a .22 compared to a 12 gauge.....a year ago you couldnt find .22 ammo....its hard to find now at times because people are still buying it to put back. With the next shortage it will go away again.

Last year...the year before...and during the next shortage you will be able to buy 12 gauge ammo of every type!...Some of the new slugger guns are dear hunting accurate out to 200 yards...A good scope on a rifled barrell Is not always a must but they sure tighten up a group!

Never put down a 12 gauge!











12 gauge


----------



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

This is one area hubs and I really have to work on. We've been to the range a few times to try out various handguns and shotguns. He's going to get a Mossberg (shotgun) and I'm getting a Glock (handgun). We've applied for the permits, so it should happen fairly soon. But the thought of all the money we're going to have to put down between membership, training and weapon purchasing has my head spinning. That's a concern. I could use some good advise.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I finally received permission to post this.

Do It Myself Blog ? Glenda Watson Hyatt » How to Use Your Wheelchair for Self-Defense

There are other sites out there. Sorting through them could be troublesome but they are there. Most links I found were local. Hopefully you'll find something local too.


----------

