# Barter Post SHTF



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Scenario,

The government finally collapsed under its debt, the world what to "S" and the military is toast fending off the Chinese "peace keepers" offered by the UN. Some states have governments in tact and none of them are getting along and moving between states is dangerous as all get out. Half the population died in fighting, disease, and starvation and 25% more are in a really bad way. There is 25% of "us" doing all right. We're getting by, we've got our bug out spots secure, we're safe and just sitting back and waiting to see what pans out.

Six months ago the closest town radio'd a safe flea market / bargain center where only goods could be traded. Money wasn't worth anything so just bring goods. They broadcast repeats each week, the free and open trade day is every Satuday and neighbors have told you its safe, sane and going well. I decide I want to pedal some extra supplies, bio diesel I can make and load up in drums, and fresh crops I just harvested. If I can score some metals, firearms, maybe some livestock (cattle only as I have plenty of birds) it'd be alright.

What do you think I'd get the most for?

1) 50 gallon drum of fresh made bio diesel (and I need lye to make more - its got a limited shelf life so its a problem).
2) 1911 -45 ACP, 3 magazines, 5 boxes of ammo ( I don't shoot 45 acp any more) 
3) a trailer full of hemp bushes previously illegal but there's no law any more,
4) bundles of squash, boxes of tomatos, spuds and corn cobbs?


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Where would the fuel be coming from to get to town to the flea market?


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Let me start with... WHEN DOES THE MOVIE COME OUT?!? SOUNDS GREAT! 

But I'd say demand will fluctuate _greatly_ every time you go to said market depending on who is there, and recent events in the area. Take it all, and take several guards so you can get home safe and without being followed.

BOY, with as many people as there will be who have nothing to trade, but _DESPERATELY_ want / need things... I can't even imagine HOW anyone would be able to get home without getting followed... It's just not that hard to track somebody when there would be so few out and about. And even if you catch them doing it... Then what? Warn them and they'll just hide better. Start shooting immediately?  Going to such a thing just doesn't present any good returns in my mind. 

We as Americans ARE spoiled. In-arguably. Makes it hard, nah, impossible to picture the calculating rabid dogs truly desperate people become!


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

1 - Diesel fuel is only valuable if you have a diesel engine, and few do. US farmers use an average of 6 gallons of diesel per year per acre though, so it might have some worth. Transporting it is an issue too; those who need it would have to already have a working vehicle to come get it, unless they were gonna roll it home.

2 - The ammo would have value, but I would think long and hard about bartering it. If the area is relatively peaceful, why rock the boat?

3 - Everyone will have a trailer full of hemp. It's a weed and grows like a weed, so probably won't have a lot of value.

4 - The veggies are potentially valuable, but that depends on the area and how many people are growing the same crops. If there are a lot of farms in the area, and they are growing hundreds of acres of veggies, it would be a buyer's market and your crops might hold little barter value. On the other hand, if there isn't enough food being grown locally, the veggies might be the most valuable of all.

Under certain circumstances, the food would be more valuable than the ammo, but I suspect the ammo would usually hold more value.

By the way, my crew is running the market and might not allow you to bring ammo except to pay for your booth rental.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> Where would the fuel be coming from to get to town to the flea market?


my 3 wheeler pedal bike


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Other items that might have value...

1 - Lighters

2 - Candles

3 - "Comfort" medications such as aspirin, Tylenol, Anti-Diarrhea meds, and many other over-the-counter meds.

4 - Batteries

5 - Small solar chargers


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

How much for the women


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

BigCheeseStick said:


> Let me start with... WHEN DOES THE MOVIE COME OUT?!? SOUNDS GREAT!
> 
> But I'd say demand will fluctuate _greatly_ every time you go to said market depending on who is there, and recent events in the area. Take it all, and take several guards so you can get home safe and without being followed.
> 
> ...


You know what you COULD DO maybe, is go to the market empty handed, but work out a trade with whomever has the goodies you want that would take place at another per-arranged location at a different time! "For all our safety's sake, meet us tomorrow in the field at the corner of I75, and Apocalypse Lane. We'll trade goods there. Bring your guards, I'll bring mine. But nobody gets followed home." This also answers the question of "What do I take".


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

We have the capacity to produce about 9,000 gallons a year right now, and I believe (strongly) that in "SHTF" if we switched to wheat grass we could double that; plenty of fuel to reach town, back, and then some.



HuntingHawk said:


> Where would the fuel be coming from to get to town to the flea market?


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## wallyLOZ (May 12, 2013)

Rule #1) Never barter what can be turned around immediately and used against you (guns, ammo, powder, primers, dynamite, etc........) Another issue has already been stated, security. What if a group follows you to your BOL? With half the population gone, another quarter desperate, starving and sick, the hemp is useless. It will also grow anywhere! The fresh veges, I'd be scared of being overrun by the 25% of the desperate people, or being followed. That leaves the bio-diesel. Anyone with a tractor could use the fuel to work their own fields. IMO, that's your best bet! Believe this is one area where a lot of people, myself included, will fail. A renewable fuel source.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

I would make the first trip with nothing, a recon, see what is in demand and what is available for barter.
You may be better off taking hygiene products, or food storage items, hardware items, etc.
The 45 and accessories would be held back, for sure, till I had a feel for the market.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Ripon said:


> We have the capacity to produce about 9,000 gallons a year right now, and I believe (strongly) that in "SHTF" if we switched to wheat grass we could double that; plenty of fuel to reach town, back, and then some.


You will be well known in a very short period of time with that kind of capacity.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Please note some things:

1) I mentioned they've been running the market for six months before I'd ever consider going. That's important because if people were getting followed home and looted it'd be shared with the neighbors. If they had that much of a law and order problem (still) I don't think they'd manage to hold a weekly get together. 

2) Following people in the desert isn't impossible, but its not easy either if the other party doesn't want to be followed. I will acknoweldge my belief is many would have the same things I do to offer; the HEMP was noted. Other farmers in this territory could switch over to wheat grass too and produce bio diesel if they have the right supplies and power supply. Also diesels are common place in this territory because there are some very large farming operations.

3) Weapons in our territory - everyone has them - and I mean everyone. My Gosh folks they all have them now. Post SHTF they'll have two. I'm not sure I'd really want any, cause I have what I need, but you never know if they were cheap enough (in terms of what I gave up for them).


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

No law you could brew alcohol as a potable, a fuel source sterilization and of course Grannies rheumatism medicine. You mentioned metals if you can fashion them you can trade tool heads etc.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

With lots of larger scale farming operations, the biodiesel would increase in value, at least in my opinion, while the veggies would decrease in worth.

Ammo will always have value, I think.

What about non-F1 seed? Of course, that would only have value for one season, but be worth having.

If you could make or stockpile pure sodium chloride (salt) and had some zinc on hand and a source of electricity, it's not hard to make lye (sodium hydroxide) and you also end up with zinc oxide as a by-product. The salt would be valuable for a lot more than biofuels too.

The farmers would be able to make the veggie oil and ethanol or methanol, but how many know how to make lye? I'm guessing that sodium hydroxide would be a hot trade item for those wishing to make their own biodiesel.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Ammo and Guns are a plenty, but NO ONE ever has enough..
I know, security risks, but I would revert back into my "old self" when I was "so deep into the drug trade that every cop knew me and either loved or hated me". There are risks today, and in a world of no law, the criminals will have just as much risk, becouse they know they can be "hog food" in an instant..
I thnk the fuel would be the number one, but as someone stated, everyday it will change..You flood the area with fuel, people will start needing vehicle parts.
I would second the notion of "comfort items", I dont remember if it was on the OP list, but a bic could be priceless. Marlboro's-gold.


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## split (Sep 2, 2013)

In this scenario, with things as bad as described, it would most likely be that movement along roads would be rare. So bandits might simply block roads and loot what ever comes their way. Anyone that can drive, must have good stuff to take. And this could occur far from the barter market and be very random. This is where strength in numbers and strength weaponry would be important. 
It might be something you have to risk, but it makes me very concerned to be so open to attack.


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## Tundra Dweller (May 18, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> Where would the fuel be coming from to get to town to the flea market?


I have as does my wife a pedal bike and we both have trailers. I have hauled 440 lb of Elk meat on my trailer. They are real work horses...


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## BigCheeseStick (Aug 7, 2013)

Rigged for Quiet said:


> You will be well known in a very short period of time with that kind of capacity.


Since I first read this thread I've tried playing this scenario out a thousand different ways because it COULD become a reality imo. This comment in particular keeps popping back in my mind as well, because for a long time I didn't FULLY get your point (We can be a little slow on the uptake in the South...  ).

When you piece this whole scenario together, it only ends one way no matter _how_ I play it out.

No matter _what_ preparations are made, precautions are taken. It's only a matter of time before...


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Honestly, I wouldn't go. I have what I need here. I'm in my own SHTF scenario, and have bartered for some stuff, but in times of rarity and scarcity, it isn't worth it. To get killed for having a barrel of fuel, to me isn't worth it. Six months in, civilization might have reset and only the honest people have survived. But greed is human nature. I have it, you have it, but you want what I have. Greed rules all. I'd rather stay home with what (little) I have and survive on my own. The market would have to be going for six YEARS for me to consider going.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Ripon said:


> Scenario,
> 
> The government finally collapsed under its debt, the world what to "S" and the military is toast fending off the Chinese "peace keepers" offered by the UN. Some states have governments in tact and none of them are getting along and moving between states is dangerous as all get out. Half the population died in fighting, disease, and starvation and 25% more are in a really bad way. There is 25% of "us" doing all right. We're getting by, we've got our bug out spots secure, we're safe and just sitting back and waiting to see what pans out.
> 
> ...


1. Lye can be made easily from hardwood ashes, but IMO this will be PREMIUM for barter as nobody knows how to do it and IF heavy machinery runs after SHTF it will help a community overproduce and prosper. Poo on the person that disses diesel engines, guess they haven't lived on a farm.
2. Any ammo in common calibers will be good barter, in Montana it will not be the best item as we have more than you and your grandma and grandpa and your cousins 5th removed put together, it is realitive to the location.
3. stick your hemp in you no sunshine spot, people will be too focused on surviving to appreciate the many virtues of hemp
4. IMO this is the best barter item, as everyone needs to eat.

Like you I WILL and INTEND on creating a "barter town" that people can congregate and exchange items for survival, what could be better than drawing people together?

Local markets will be the thing that draws communities together, yes there will have to be security but after that it allows everyone to trade and survive. If the market is important to the community EVERYONE will defend it.

My opinion is biased in area with 13 people per square mile, each area will differ.(I.e. if you live in a big city of several hundred thousand you are screwed)

Plus I've made my living as a salesman, I will always look to exploit a need to profit myself and my family. Anyone that says bulsh**t is a hypocrite.


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## Tundra Dweller (May 18, 2013)

kevincali said:


> The market would have to be going for six YEARS for me to consider going.


Where do you get that number from???? WHY that many years????


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Tundra Dweller said:


> Where do you get that number from???? WHY that many years????


Being sarcastic. I mean, it would have to be well established with a great track record, and people would have had time to "re civilize" so they wouldn't be following people home and such. And even if they did, hopefully by that time, if society re adjusted and the community weeded out the bad folks, then maybe it would be safe to go.

But then again, I hardly trust anyone haha


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## Nathan Jefferson (May 11, 2013)

6 years? The tax man would already be around to take a cut of what you have before that long went by....


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Its a good place to pick up gardening tools like that, particularly shovels and rakes. Usually $2 buys you a decent one and some times $5 or $10 gets you a whole load of them.



rickfromillinois said:


> I am going to start going to farm auctions/ garage sales and picking up hand tools. Shovels, spades, hoes, axes, mauls, hand drills, things like that. I think that they will be at a premium. Vegetable seeds. Honey. Alcohol. Aspirin. Anti-diarrhea drugs. Soap. I would be a bit nervous about ever trading firearms or ammunition.


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