# Perspective



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Perhaps one reason I'm a fairly easy going guy that doesn't get worked up over a lot of stuff boils down to perspective.
A guy I was in a VA therapy group for PTSD with said something I'll never forget. "After Vietnam, every day is Christmas."
I've forgotten his name, I remember he was in the 173rd Airborne.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

What got you through it, RPD...?
if you knew what I thought the war was all about at the time, when I was a little kid you'd laugh. 
Until my best friend and neighbor's big brother came home in a body bag, I hadn't a clue. You could say my perspective changed after that.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Post deleted by RPD


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## Big Boy in MO (Jan 22, 2018)

Much Respect to an Vet that served in Vietnam. I'm a Navy brat, Dad was 21+ years. I remember him being gone as a little kid, he served on flat tops. My Uncle, Dads brother did three tours in country as a gunner on Hueys, got shot down several times; twice in one day. I always thought he was a little crazy as I was growing up, he died several years ago.

RPD, you vets are some tough SOB's. Hats off to ya and many Thanks!!!!

http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c7GqpoM6wU


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

After few tours in Iraq/Afghanistan part of initial invasion March 19/20 2003 in Iraq as infantryman 2 weeks out of basic/AIT, my perspective is if the time served during all that didn't kill me than I can survive anything except when it's my time it's my time. It's a thrill that can never be matched and believe I'm only alive through luck, supposed to been dead multiple times. Done what I have wanted to in life for 15 years in the service anything after that is just extra to me, I wasn't supposed to made it this far.
With PTSD I learned pills won't help you, only time and learning how to live again will, you have to adjust your life or it will kill you in the end.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

My father grew up on a farm in Northwest Florida along with another nine siblings where he chopped and picked cotton, grew and trucked truckloads of watermelons to Mississippi, among other things. He joined the Army to go to the Korean War. Sure, it wasn't a joy, being in a war, especially in an infantry unit, but got three hot meals a day when possible and he liked the food. He stayed in, went aviation, found himself in Vietnam as a first sergeant in an ASB unit. I remember how disciplined he was before he left. He came back the same man. He retired from the Army after serving 22 years.

He didn't drink or smoke pot, he's never gone to the V.A. for mental therapy and has never joined any veterans groups. He had open heart surgery in 1981. The heart doc said his heart disease was due to years of stress. 

He and my mother watch a little news and then they watch Bonanza if there isn't a Braves game on T.V. They still clean their own yard because, I'd rather do it myself then supervise you or anyone else."


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Weldman said:


> After few tours in Iraq/Afghanistan part of initial invasion March 19/20 2003 in Iraq as infantryman 2 weeks out of basic/AIT, my perspective is if the time served during all that didn't kill me than I can survive anything except when it's my time it's my time. It's a thrill that can never be matched and believe I'm only alive through luck, supposed to been dead multiple times. Done what I have wanted to in life for 15 years in the service anything after that is just extra to me, I wasn't supposed to made it this far.
> With PTSD I learned pills won't help you, only time and learning how to live again will, you have to adjust your life or it will kill you in the end.


Thanks for your service, Weldman. May God bless you so very much.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Post deleted by RPD


Sorry. I'm sure it was none of my biz anyway. Just glad you got through and are here now.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Weldman said:


> After few tours in Iraq/Afghanistan part of initial invasion March 19/20 2003 in Iraq as infantryman 2 weeks out of basic/AIT, my perspective is if the time served during all that didn't kill me than I can survive anything except when it's my time it's my time. It's a thrill that can never be matched and believe I'm only alive through luck, supposed to been dead multiple times. Done what I have wanted to in life for 15 years in the service anything after that is just extra to me, I wasn't supposed to made it this far.
> With PTSD I learned pills won't help you, only time and learning how to live again will, you have to adjust your life or it will kill you in the end.


PTSD never goes away. The brain chemistry, how the brain works and processes things, is permanently changed.
Especially the deep inner cortex that controls the automatic functions. For example, one thing I have the VA calls an "exagerated startle response", especially to sudden unexpected bright flashes of light.
I have seen MRI's of normal brains and PTSD brains. PTSD is real.

Time, abstinence from any mind altering drug or alcohol, and my faith have given me an inner peace I never had before.


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## Weldman (Nov 7, 2020)

Annie said:


> Thanks for your service, Weldman. May God bless you so very much.


You're welcome and thanks for your support



rice paddy daddy said:


> PTSD never goes away. The brain chemistry, how the brain works and processes things, is permanently changed.
> Especially the deep inner cortex that controls the automatic functions. For example, one thing I have the VA calls an "exagerated startle response", especially to sudden unexpected bright flashes of light.
> I have seen MRI's of normal brains and PTSD brains. PTSD is real.
> 
> Time, abstinence from any mind altering drug or alcohol, and my faith have given me an inner peace I never had before.


Yeah I had one of those scans in at Houston VA and seen same thing, part of the brain that is usually cool in temperature in certain area unless startled with adrenaline pumping is always active and hot. It's one of the reasons I left the meds, learned of what you speak of so I found out what triggered mine and moved across the US to learn to live again. Heat sand, stress, loud noises I didn't make or weren't expecting, sudden movements by people and too many people. If I don't have something to do I will slip backwards which makes being rated a percentage for it hard to be on it.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I like to tell this story about "Perspective"

Son1 had Cancer(Leukemia) when he was 5 years old. He underwent Chemo for 3 years and Radiation Treatments for 14 days while going through Chemo. He went bald, was often sick, became bloated from the medicine and was generally in compromised immune situation for much of the 3 years. One year he spent over 50 days in the hospital. We tried to maintain a normal life during this time. It was over 25 years ago, here is my story on perspective...

So during Son1's cancer treatments a good friend of mine came to visit one weekend to play a bunch of golf, grill some steaks, drink some beer and relax with me and my family. He and I played a Friday round of golf and stunk it up on the course. Nothing went right that day golfwise.

We come back to the house, fire up the grill, crack open some beers and start bitching and moaning about our horrible day playing golf. Mind you we were both relatively young men, in great health, playing with expensive golf clubs at an expensive golf course...yet we bitched and complained over more than a few beers.

Son1 is sitting there listening to his Dad and his buddy go on and on about how hard this "game" was and finally asks an innocent question as only a small, weak-enned bald headed 5 year old cancer patient can ask..."Dad", said Son1, "is golf hard?"

"Heck yeah, golf is hard Son", I answered, "toughest game I've ever played and I've played them all!" My buddy echos my view and we start to complain again...meanwhile...

Son1 thinks about this for a second or two, then asks..."Dad, Is golf harder than Leukemia and Chemo-Therapy?" ..............SILENCE...... ..... ....... ....... ......

Still makes me tear up a bit telling that story. Its all perspective isn't it?

(For those of you that don't know our story, Son1 was lucky and strong and beat Leukemia and was officially cured 7 years later. He is a thriving strong young man today. I think he still bench presses nearly 400lbs and is a happily married working man who is a part time physical fitness nut and gym rat. So happy ending but perspective was certainly taught to us over 25 years ago....)


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> PTSD never goes away. The brain chemistry, how the brain works and processes things, is permanently changed.
> Especially the deep inner cortex that controls the automatic functions. For example, one thing I have the VA calls an "exagerated startle response", especially to sudden unexpected bright flashes of light.
> I have seen MRI's of normal brains and PTSD brains. PTSD is real.
> 
> Time, abstinence from any mind altering drug or alcohol, and my faith have given me an inner peace I never had before.


Right-O you are. There are too many people with PTSD that think it'll go back to how it was. Thats like trying to unbake bread. The chemical process has occurred and now you gotta learn to live with it. But I also think too many people use it as a crutch or as an excuse to drink and do drugs. Hell I have. 
More to the point of the OP....Vietnam, Korean, WWII vets were my heroes. Not just the Sgt Yorks or Audi Murphy's...I mean the everyday guys and gals serving.

People forgot how hard it was to live back then. You come back from war and have the damnest time just trying to keep food on the table, and pretty soon you learn to live with your new normal. Today folks have it easier, which allows vets to dwell on their issues iinstead of face them post-haste and get on with living.

Thanks for doing it before I had to guys, cause your the reason I did it afterwards.

_"Draw inspiration from other people's lives The inspiring example of the people you admire is a great place to start with." Nathan Arthur,_


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

rice paddy daddy said:


> PTSD never goes away...Time, abstinence from any mind altering drug or alcohol, and my faith have given me an inner peace I never had before.


I'm not a vet but a couple of quotes spring to mind that encourage people to try to let unhappy memories go and move on-

1- _"What happens in the field stays in the field" Anon Nam soldier_

2- God said- 
_"Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. 
See, I am doing a new thing! Now it springs up; do you not perceive it? 
I am making a way in the desert and streams in the wasteland"
(Isaiah 43:18 )_


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Eyeball said:


> I'm not a vet but a couple of quotes spring to mind that encourage people to try to let unhappy memories go and move on-
> 
> 1- _"What happens in the field stays in the field" Anon Nam soldier_
> 
> ...


Sorry, but repeated traumatic experiences over and over change the brain chemistry - the actual way the brain functions.
It is what it is.
One simply learns to live with it. There is no "let unhappy memories go and move on."


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Sorry, but repeated traumatic experiences over and over change the brain chemistry - the actual way the brain functions.
> It is what it is.
> One simply learns to live with it. There is no "let unhappy memories go and move on."


i wish psychologists would do a study of PTSD sometime to try to pin down what sort of people are most susceptible to it.
After all I suppose only a relatively small number of people are affected by it but the majority are not.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Eyeball said:


> i wish psychologists would do a study of PTSD sometime to try to pin down what sort of people are most susceptible to it.
> After all I suppose only a relatively small number of people are affected by it but the majority are not.


You have absolutely no clue about what you are talking about.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

rice paddy daddy said:


> You have absolutely no clue about what you are talking about.


Well let the facts do the talking-

_Operations Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and Enduring Freedom (OEF): About 11-20 out of every 100 Veterans (or between 11-20%) who served in OIF or OEF have PTSD in a given year.

Gulf War (Desert Storm): About 12 out of every 100 Gulf War Veterans (or 12%) have PTSD in a given year.

Vietnam War: About 15 out of every 100 Vietnam Veterans (or 15%) were currently diagnosed with PTSD at the time of the most recent study in the late 1980s, the National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study (NVVRS). It is estimated that about 30 out of every 100 (or 30%) of Vietnam Veterans have had PTSD in their lifetime_
https://www.ptsd.va.gov/understand/common/common_veterans.asp

So like I said, psychologists should analyse why some get PTSD and the majority don't, and draw useful conclusions from it.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Eyeball said:


> i wish psychologists would do a study of PTSD sometime to try to pin down what sort of people are most susceptible to it.
> After all I suppose only a relatively small number of people are affected by it but the majority are not.


I expect everyone is susceptible to it. Perhaps you should volunteer to perform arduous duties in a war zone and see what your threshold is.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

rice paddy daddy said:


> You have absolutely no clue about what you are talking about.


Huh you try to be nice..
PS- a lady once said to me "You're very good with people, would you like to join us in the Samaritans?" but I had to decline because I couldn't just sit there on the phone listening like a dummy and let others do all the talking.
So I became an independent "Internet Samaritan" instead, and get good feedback from people like this-

_Spannerose - "I would like you to know that the result of reading your posts I am left with the desire to pick up my bible for the first time in years"
ChildofLight - "So good to read your responses, some are quite witty and made LOL"
HenryS - "You are brilliant in finding appropriate phrases. Another one of your superb emails to store"
Sarah4Jesus - "Listen to him, he is a great teacher"
Kierri - "That was one of the best explanations I've ever heard!"
Haimehenmmli - "I LOVE IT MATE!!! I'm going to put it into my files, with some of my other favorites, from you"
Saipan1777 - "Spot on, bravo"
Ainglkiss - "You write so well. Keep up the great work"
BlessedOne - "Glad to have you here! Jesus is the way!"
MonkGirl - "Wow, thank you! That is really comforting...and all I really needed to hear!"
JeffC - "HELL YEAH! PREACH IT BROTHER, THE REALITY WAY! (LUV YUR STYLE....)"
Honeybearx - "This was very good reading thank you"
Megan - "I just wanted to tell you that I loved this story, it was very touching"
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Sherry Anne - " i love your posts"
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Apple Pie - "Come on over to 4church, we could do with your input and your humour"
Lillian - "please come back..it's nice having you on the board"_

I suppose my Christian strength must rub off on others..

_*"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Bible: Proverbs 7:17) *_


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Eyeball said:


> Well let the facts do the talking-
> 
> _Operations Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and Enduring Freedom (OEF): About 11-20 out of every 100 Veterans (or between 11-20%) who served in OIF or OEF have PTSD in a given year.
> 
> ...


What is today callled PTSD has been around since ancient times. The Greeks wrote about it.
It has been studied for a thousand years or more.

Here in America, in the Civil War it was known as Soldiers Heart. WWI it was called Shell Shock. WWII it was Combat Fatigue.
Vietnam it was Post Vietnam Syndrome.

Psychiatrists have linked the severity of PTSd to the subjects mental health before the traumatic incidents.
The healthiest have worse symptoms, those who were psychotic before had the least or none at all.

Nope. You do not know diddly squat about PTSD.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Eyeball said:


> Well let the facts do the talking-
> 
> _Operations Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and Enduring Freedom (OEF): About 11-20 out of every 100 Veterans (or between 11-20%) who served in OIF or OEF have PTSD in a given year.
> 
> ...


Not everyone in a combat zone is exposed to combat.
For example, someone stationed at the Baghram base in Afghanistan might as well have been in the States. In fact, it was safer there than the States. 
The same goes for the big bases in Vietnam, like Da Nang.

For every front line soldier, there are 9 in support. Out of those 9, some will be exposed to combat on occasion. But no where near all.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

rice paddy daddy said:


> What is today callled PTSD has been around since ancient times. The Greeks wrote about it.
> It has been studied for a thousand years or more.
> 
> Here in America, in the Civil War it was known as Soldiers Heart. WWI it was called Shell Shock. WWII it was Combat Fatigue.
> ...


You said earlier-
_"PTSD never goes away. The brain chemistry, how the brain works and processes things, is permanently changed."_

If that's true, there's zilch me and doctors and shrinks or anybody else can say to help sufferers except to wish you all good luck..
But consider this-
If PTSD changes the brain chemistry, perhaps it might be possible to UN-change it by adopting a new mindset and new perspective on life to get the brain back on the proper track?
I already made two suggestions along those lines ("what happens in the field..." and "forget the former things") but I won't make any more if I'm boring you..


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Honest question;

Can PTSD occur in people who have not been to war? For example, I know a lady who claims to have PTSD due to what happened to her by Hurricane Katrina. Another lady we know claims PTSD due to a supposed date rape in college.

Just wondering.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Eyeball said:


> You said earlier-
> _"PTSD never goes away. The brain chemistry, how the brain works and processes things, is permanently changed."_
> 
> If that's true, there's zilch me and doctors and shrinks or anybody else can say to help sufferers except to wish you all good luck..
> ...


I suggest you keep your suggestions about this to yourself. Go play some more role-playing games instead.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Slippy said:


> Honest question;
> 
> *Can PTSD occur in people who have not been to war?* For example, I know a lady who claims to have PTSD due to what happened to her by Hurricane Katrina. Another lady we know claims PTSD due to a supposed date rape in college.
> 
> Just wondering.


Maybe. Some people go through very traumatic events without a change in the brain's chemistry; some dont. That's why some combat vets have it; some dont. Some non-combat vets have it, some dont.



Eyeball said:


> You said earlier-
> _"PTSD never goes away. The brain chemistry, how the brain works and processes things, is permanently changed."_
> 
> If that's true, there's zilch me and doctors and shrinks or anybody else can say to help sufferers except to wish you all good luck..
> ...


The way it was explained to me is this:

Our brains need both of its sides functioning during an experience to classify and categorize our experiences appropriately. For example, when we have a bad dream or nightmare, when we wake up we might recall it fully - but our brain has already given it the 'dream' classification/code... and we can shake it off, eventually.

In some PTSD, in the case of an extreme stress event, one of the brain's sides (hemispheres) doesn't kick in to do its job during the experience and the experience isn't 'coded' appropriately... i.e., it isn't given the 'it happened in the past, it's over now' classification. RPD and OSFG have it right; it is a change in brain chemistry.

You cant change the brain's chemistry 'back' through changing the mindset - because that's not what is broken. Things that you do may indeed help others who are dealing with hard situations, etc, and bravo to you for wanting to help...but your suggestion would be no more effective for this than thinking you could 'heal' a broken arm by telling it to have a nice day.

Kindly take stevekovak's suggestion and stay in your lane.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Honest question;
> 
> Can PTSD occur in people who have not been to war? For example, I know a lady who claims to have PTSD due to what happened to her by Hurricane Katrina. Another lady we know claims PTSD due to a supposed date rape in college.
> 
> Just wondering.


Yes. PTSD can occur due to any traumatic event. 
Especially rape.

It was explained to me that PTSD is a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances.
With rape, that may only be one occurance. With war, that is event after event after event.

I have studied everything I can find on the subject, and the most interesting thing to me is the impact of trauma on the deep cortex of the human brain, often called the "lizard brain".
You can google "ptsd and the lizard brain" and get much information, I am familiar with an article I read in the Vietnam Veterans of America magazine a few years ago. It's kind of technical, but there are MRI pictures showing actual changes from PTSD.
https://vvaveteran.org/33-5/33-5_reidlyon.html Click on the link, read the first couple of very short paragraphs and then scroll down to the several MRI pictures.
@Slippy Read the section titled The Seat Of Our Emotions to answer your question.

For the record, I was a "client" in a PTSD program at the VA for 9 years - individual counseling and group therapy. I refused their offer of drugs. I saw what it did to some other guys, including a very good friend commmitting suicide while the VA was "adjusting the doseage."
Abstinence of all mind altering chemicals (drugs, alcohol), a strong Alcoholics Anonymous program, and a deep faith in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has allowed me to live a fairly normal life. Only those closest to me have any clue.


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