# Large Calibers



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

There are lots of big bore firearms floating around. Take revolvers for example. Is there a place in ones survival battery for something like a S&W 500, a 454 Casul (sp) or a 460? I saw a Scoped S&W performance center revolver in 460 the other day. It was huge! and guys were oohing and aaahing over it, my first thought was, good grief! I wouldn't want to pack the thing around. 

I prefer the mid bore and smaller, they seem to meet my shooting needs, and that's just me. If you know of a reason one of these cannons would be useful, let me know, because the only use I can see is to wow your buddies when you drag it out and show it to them.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I would assume that it would possible be an option if your traipsing around an area with large dangerous game and a situation in which a long arm would be impractical.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Unless your are hunting elephant or plan on shooting king kong the big bore are big boy toys for the most part


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

If I went fishing up on the Kenai peninsula more often I would consider a Ruger Alaskan in 454. In point of fact, however, if a big Grizzly were to attack you I think you are toast no matter what. You are more likely to survive if it is your buddy who is carrying the weapon. In the contiguous 48 those types of guns are utterly useless. I carry a 9mm year round now.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> If I went fishing up on the Kenai peninsula more often I would consider a Ruger Alaskan in 454. In point of fact, however, if a big Grizzly were to attack you I think you are toast no matter what. You are more likely to survive if it is your buddy who is carrying the weapon. In the contiguous 48 those types of guns are utterly useless. I carry a 9mm year round now.


 If a Bear happen to come up on you and all you have is a hand gun you are in trouble. My 45 Colt is as large as I care to go. No bear at the house . Son does have one that comes up on their elevated deck from time to time but he just leaves after a look around. Son does have a 308 semiAuto in the corner just in case.
DNR has told him if he shoots it someone better be bleeding other than the bear.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

In Bear country I would say "Yes".

On Slippy's list of things to buy before he dies, the S&W .500 Magnum is much higher on the list than the Automatic Rifle.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

9mm & 45ACP do little against wild hogs. And I use to do alot of wild hog hunting. Thus a custom Super Blackhawk was in order.And being most of the hunting was in swamps there was also the gators smelling the blood. And pretty much had to gut the hog on the spot to lighter the weight to get it out of there. Hogs are meat eaters so had danger from the hogs, especially boars & the gators. Hard to gut anything with a rifle in your hand.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I could see a use for them in bear country, especially if you are fishing in the streams and are using both hands for that. I too have done some hog hunting and carried a .357 magnum as a back up to my rifle (either 30-06 or 45/70). To me a pistol is for use when you don't have a rifle handy, like squatting over a slit trench or long guns are not practical. I conceal carry either a 9mm or most often, a .45 acp, depending on the situation and how I am dressed. 

I personally have little use for the big large bore pistols, but that's just me. If you do, great! I would be as hesitant about criticizing someone's choice in guns as I would in their choice in a spouse..... maybe more so.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I have always enjoyed 45 Colt caliber revolvers, and due to my enjoyment of history I also have a 45-70 single shot rifle.
Both of these calibers will kill anything in the lower 48. 
I could always hot rod some loads for my 45 Blackhawk to above 44 magnum levels, but instead bought a Super Blackhawk.
Life is more than simply owning a weapon for concealed carry or home defense. A Colt Single Action Army simply sings to me, and I like the song.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

RPD
It's more of an enjoyment thing?
I understand that. I have a 45 Colt and it is pleasant to shoot. I enjoy it, same with the 45 ACP. Yet I never could shoot a 44 mag well. I can tag something three times with a 357 in the time it takes me to get off a shot with a 44 mag. I look at something like a 454/460/500 and know they are way past my ability.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

A 44 Mag in Super Redhawk is all the handgun I need and care to shoot. Thats a hefty enough chunk of iron to be carrying around as it is in a holster. If that's not enough I will break out the 338 Win mag chambered Remington 700. Maybe I would have a different opinion if I lived in Alaska or a guide there and festively plump bears were a common thing to run into.

The S&W X-Frames look pretty cool and definitely impressive but view it the same way I do the Desert Eagle in 50AE...more of a novelty gun to own or feed my ego and impress my Homies with my manliness. Besides in a 3 inch barrel are those 460's and 500's burning that powder and generating the added velocity those big heavy bullets need or is it more of a flame thrower belching half its powder still burning out the muzzle?


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Hunting From A Wheel Chair With A Long Gun Is Very Difficult. I Have A Bandoler Style Chest Holster For Big Revolver Carry. It Is Much More Practical Than Bumping Around With A Long Gun Falling Off Your Lap. With A Red Dot Scope White Tail Deer Can Be And I Have Taken Out To One Hundred Yards.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

For someone in a wheel chair hunting big game where carrying a rifle is not feasible it makes sense to carry an X-Frame revolver with a 7.5 inch barrel instead, but a 3 inch or less barrel on a gun like that, I am not seeing any real practicalness in that.

That's not the most common buyer of these type handguns though. Most of the guys I see buying these are buying them to hump on their one trip to Alaska to fish or hunt with a rifle and are just tyring to one up everyone else. Most of them could get off two better aimed shots at 25 yards with a 375H&H Mag quicker than they could one of the X-Frame pistols and got more money than they have brains. Now don't take that wrong there are some folks out there that can shoot these well, that's just not the average Joe out there buying them,.

Those guns are selling lot hot cakes here in Texas...and the closest thing we have to a bear here is a 400 lbs hog (if your lucky) or a white tail that will dress out to about 100-120 lbs. Neither are anywhere near the category of a charging 600 lbs plus grizzly and a 44 mag or 45 colt will handle either in style.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I accumulate firearms and edged weapons that make me happy, not those that some alleged expert says I HAVE to have. For example, I don't own a Glock and never will, but I DO have a 1921 Colt Police Positive Special revolver chambered in 32/20. Why? Because I want to.
Nor do I own an AR, and never will. I have other rifles that are just as good, and some that are better.
Heck, I've got 14 shotguns because I like shotguns, and not a one has a black plastic folding super duper stock, extended mag tube, night sights, flashlight or any other tacticrap. In fact, 4 of them are single shots. Hopelessly old fashioned and completely clueless, I know!

Remember - it's not the arrow, it's the indian.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Of course anyone could find a reason to have 50


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

Unless your "Dirty Harry" I don't see a need for one other than show and tell.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I have a 4 inch S&W 500 mag. Being the small x-frame it really isn't difficult to carry around. Not much different then my 6 inch 44 mag. I carry it for bears while fishing in MT once or twice a year. 

In a SHTF scenario it will be on the dash of my truck. It will stop another vehicle with one shot through the engine. I've blown through a junk V-8 easily before taking it to scrap. With my custom 500 grain Hornady XTP's. It will shoot through 28 inches of live red oak and continued 10 feet in to the ground out the other side. So go ahead and try to hide behind something. Body armor, "really".:lol:

I would have to agree that it really doesn't have a lot of value as a SHTF gun. It won't be my first choice either. But it is a very fun gun to own. It will turn most guys into little girly men that won't even touch it after watching me shoot it a few times. After shooting it "EVERYTHING" else is a piece of cake, nothing compares. Love the look when people see the shells I shoot out of "that thing". Best reason it have it, because I can.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

There has never been a documented case, (that I can find), of someone surviving a bear attack with a handgun.
That is not to say it cannot be done.
Carry what you have confidence in, and be very proficient with it.
Were I to fish in Alaska, a S&W in 44 Mag, properly loaded, would be my choice, only because it is what I have a lot of practice with.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Oddcaliber said:


> Unless your "Dirty Harry" I don't see a need for one other than show and tell.


Need has nothing to do with it. You don't need that electronic device you typed your post with either. You have it because you want it.
"Show and tell?" No, not when even my wife doesn't know how many guns I have and what kind. My firearms are for my pleasure only.


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## redhawk (May 7, 2014)

I usually carry a .357 mag. out and about on the my place, but carry a .44 mag as a back up gun when I am hunting


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

I have .41 Magnum and 10mm revolvers. My dad has picked up a few of the novelty calibers like .50AE, .445 Super Mag, 454 Casul, and .414 Super Mag. Unless I am hunting tractor trailers I don't see the use, but to each their own.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I accumulate firearms and edged weapons that make me happy, not those that some alleged expert says I HAVE to have. For example, I don't own a Glock and never will, but I DO have a 1921 Colt Police Positive Special revolver chambered in 32/20. Why? Because I want to.
> Nor do I own an AR, and never will. I have other rifles that are just as good, and some that are better.
> Heck, I've got 14 shotguns because I like shotguns, and not a one has a black plastic folding super duper stock, extended mag tube, night sights, flashlight or any other tacticrap. In fact, 4 of them are single shots. Hopelessly old fashioned and completely clueless, I know!
> 
> Remember - it's not the arrow, it's the indian.


Similarly, I have a reproduction of a Sharps rifle in 45/70 that I took a 350 lb hog with last year. It is heavy as all get out and a single shot, but it is something that I wanted, and it's my money, so what the heck.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> Similarly, I have a reproduction of a Sharps rifle in 45/70 that I took a 350 lb hog with last year. It is heavy as all get out and a single shot, but it is something that I wanted, and it's my money, so what the heck.


Sweet!! :-D
I would love to have a Sharps or a Remington Rolling Block, or even a Springfield. I understand the waiting list for a Shiloh Sharps is several years long. Due to the big interest in BPRC shooting. (Black Powder Rifle Cartridge)
I could not afford a $2,000 - $3,000 Shiloh Sharps, or a Pedersoli, but being a fan of the Old West I had to have a buffalo rifle. So I got what my thin wallet could afford - a New England Firearms Handi Rifle in 45/70. Weighs about 6 pounds and when you touch off a 405 grain lead slug it's not really too bad, but you do know for sure something just happened.:shock:


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

My brother-in-law has a S&W 500

He loves it. 

I'll stick to my .357's and my 9mm's. 

Then again, I don't hike or hunt in Bear country.

Do I think those guns have a place in a survivalist's weapons list? Not mine, but if it's on yours then more power to you... that's your business, not mine.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I have guns that are simply for my enjoyment. One of those is a 45-70, very pleasant to shoot, much like the 45 colt in that respect. 

With the exception of the 45-70, which I shoot every couple of years. I top out at the .308 Win. level in rifle calibers. I have shot a 7mm and a 300 Win. to name a couple and found them to be more than I could handle. 

I prefer the mid bores especially in handguns. The day after shooting a 44 mag. my wrists swell up and ache. I'm flirting with physical therapy by shooting a 44 mag. I do just fine with a 357 best of all no lingering after effects except for a smile.

Experience has taught me that I shoot with more confidence and better accuracy when I'm not getting the crap pounded out of me every time I pull the trigger.

I think it's fair to question the need for a hand cannon, because bigger is not always better, and just because they can doesn't mean the should.

YMMV


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Why has EVERYONE ignored the TC Contender that shoots rifle calibers that will put all those revolvers to shame for power and accuracy? Try a 45/70 pistola!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> Why has EVERYONE ignored the TC Contender that shoots rifle calibers that will put all those revolvers to shame for power and accuracy? Try a 45/70 pistola!


Or a BFR? How about a 30/30 revolver?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

OK, I'll admit to a 308 Win Encore pistol with Burris 2-7 scope also. Will out shoot most rifles off the bench at 100 yards. Recoil is actually worse than the 500 mag. Which with enough practice recoil is not a big deal. It's a mind over matter thing. The recoil isn't going to kill you.

Hand cannons are kind of a acquired taste IMO. Once you start down that road it's hard to stop. Sure it's a mines bigger kind of thing. But I'm not betting my families life on a 9mm, 38 special, 380, 357, 40, 556/223 etc. 

Remember that more and more criminals are wearing body armor. What do you think they will have on in a SHTF scenario?? Steel plates, cut tire treads etc. Especially if they 'KNOW" most people will be willing to shoot back at them. So unless you can make a head shot under stress. While getting shot at you may want to rethink your choices.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Yes I shot heavy hand loads in 30-06 and 300 Win mag for years, when I got a M1A in 308 it was like going back to a 22 lr

Part of the equation is the action, bullet/load, and the mass of the gun.

Know any sources for black tip bullets? We used to be able to get those with the blue and red too. 

A friends father had his FFL and an original BAR. We used to take blue or red tips, float a 1/2 empty propane tank down the river, and let loose.

We shot the old 06 black tips right through an old pickup, fenders, straight six, and out the other side.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I agree and I am not belittling the big bore fans at all. I know I'm better off all the way around with the mid bore hand guns and I simply don't understand the fuss about having a hand cannon. Even at the outside chance that a tire clad bad guy were to show up bent on doing harm, I'm fairly sure that a .308 or a .357 could handle it. 

In the grand scheme of all things prepping I wouldn't consider a 500 S&W as a viable defensive tool. Yet if swarmed by tire wearing ninjas I may wish I had one. Accuracy trumps power. The power of the hand cannon is great for hunting and such, but when the tire clad ninjas show up I'm pretty sure I'd want something that is a bit more controllable.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I have owned a .300 win mag. It was a savage with a 3-9x scope. Black synthetic stock very interesting. Had to sell it a number of years ago but only got about $125 for it at a local gun store. Original Case and everything.
I prefer something semi auto with a magazine. More bullets more better.
Pointy bullets fly further.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I recently, lost my AR to the pawn shop. Anyone own DPMS AR's? I am afraid for the price they are not good


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I don't think there is anything wrong with the DPMS. 

DI AR's have been around for a long time and manufactures have making them down to a science. I shot a couple hundred rounds through a DPMS sweet 16, and first impressions being what they are, I found it to be a fair AR. I didn't have any FTF or FTE and it was reasonably accurate. I'll take that combination any day of the week.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

While I don't personally have a DPMS, I've never heard a discouraging word.


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## shooter (Dec 25, 2012)

I hunt hog with a .44 magnum on one property as its thick woods and i would have a hard time bring a rifle to bear on target. To be honest I would not want to shoot anything much bigger. I am 6'2 220" and the recoil from a buffalo bore round is enough for me. Are there places where a 500 S&W 545 ect might be useful yes. Can they shoot out an engine block if you needed to yes. Would you want to carry 200 plus rounds of ammo for them when bugging out (probably not). 

Do those big bore hand guns have a purpose yes, are they your idea survival weapon no. I would rather carry something lighter, and whom's ammo is not $3-5 a round, and take up the space of 3 other rounds in my bag.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I always think of weapons the same as any tool in my tool box or shop. I have a ball pin hammer, a claw hammer, a framers hammer, a rubber mallet, and a sledge hammer. I use each. But could I get by without some? Sure...I could use a piece of wood and my claw hammer in place of my rubber mallet (sometimes). Or I could use my framers hammer to drive in a big stake or bust. Some concrete (not the best scenario). But I don't pack my sledge to go build a tree stand. If you can afford the tools...I say get em all. Just pick the right tools to take with you.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Chipper said:


> Remember that more and more criminals are wearing body armor. What do you think they will have on in a SHTF scenario?? Steel plates, cut tire treads etc. Especially if they 'KNOW" most people will be willing to shoot back at them. So unless you can make a head shot under stress. While getting shot at you may want to rethink your choices.


No reason to do head shots until you have imobilized them. Shoot them in the hip then you can take em out at your leisure.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Jeep said:


> I recently, lost my AR to the pawn shop. Anyone own DPMS AR's? I am afraid for the price they are not good


You can get a PSA /FN CHF barreled upper and PSA Magpul lower usually for less than a DPMS

I have $550 into them, $650 into a Daniel Defense barreled combo,$900 into the Spikes one.
For the price difference I can't tell,they're all CHF and shoot well.

On the other hand the DPMS Oracle I had never gave me any problem either.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> If a Bear happen to come up on you and all you have is a hand gun you are in trouble. My 45 Colt is as large as I care to go. No bear at the house . Son does have one that comes up on their elevated deck from time to time but he just leaves after a look around. Son does have a 308 semiAuto in the corner just in case.
> DNR has told him if he shoots it someone better be bleeding other than the bear.


If you want to shoot a big bear with a hand gun make sure to file the front sight off first. That way it wont hurt as bad when the bear shoves it up your ass!


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

More to the point I don't get caught up in marketing ploys that would have me believing bigger I better. If I can't shoot it well then what's the point of owning it. On the other hand if you just got to have a hand cannon the by all means go get yourself one. Enjoy it, shoot it, or wow your buddies with it, be thankful you live in a country where you have that opportunity.

I have owned several hand cannons over the years and eventually they fell into disuse and collected dust. If I don't enjoy shooting them, or shoot them well enough to warrant keeping them, and have rifles with more power, then it's time to put the cannons out on the market and let those who enjoy them have them. Which is what I have done. 

I've come to the conclusion that I'm far more likely to encounter a person who will present more of a danger to than any bear.


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## 9UC (Dec 21, 2012)

On one of the gun forums to which I belong, I saw written by a long term member and gun collector, "the 10 mm and 40 Cal were created for a purpose that does not yet exist", and told by a friend who retired from the National Park Service Police, the only time he carried anything larger than a Sig 9mm, was when assigned to temporary duty in bear (large game) country. Both these statements have had an effect on my decisions of what I carry. I don't claim to be an expert, and with due respect to those who carry the big or high pressure bores, but after studying the ballistics of various rounds from .38 Special, my first duty carry, to 45 Cal, my safe queen, unless I go "bear", I really don't see much rational in carrying more than a good medium to high capacity 9mm with 147 JHP rounds and doing lots of practice. As stated by a close friend, a miss with a 460 Casals is as bad as a miss with a 22 short revolver.


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## Gunner's Mate (Aug 13, 2013)

This is fact you can never overkill something but you can under kill somethin


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Jeep said:


> I recently, lost my AR to the pawn shop. Anyone own DPMS AR's? I am afraid for the price they are not good


I have owned and built plenty of DPMS ARs. There is nothing wrong with them, a lot of people believe if you don't spend x amount on a gun it will crumble in your hands or be a jamb-o-matic, it is simply not the case with DPMS.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

The 10mm was created (for the FBI), after the Miami shootout.
The FBI agents were armed with 38's.
When the 10mm was issued , some agents (male and female) could not handle the recoil.
About the same time, S&W and Winchester were working on a .40 cal round, hence the 40 s&w.
It passed the FBI protocols and soon replaced the 10mm.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

The way I see it, if you come across an angry bear, God requires your presence elsewhere. I stock 5.56, .38 and .45ACP - if I were to ever "go big" it would be a 45-70 lever gun.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Carry guns are a distinct subset of my total weaponry. I would no more carry a single action 44 magnum with a 7 & 1/2" barrel than I would a bazooka.
When I leave the property there is one of two snub pistols in my front pocket - either a 44 Special or a 357 magnum. Plus a 4" fixed blade knife on my belt.
At one time I carried a Colt Commander in an IWB holster, but in my area that is not needed.

But I do like to woods walk with a 45 Colt hog leg and a single shot 12 ga shotgun. Makes me feel in tune with my ancestors.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Sweet!! :-D
> I would love to have a Sharps or a Remington Rolling Block, or even a Springfield. I understand the waiting list for a Shiloh Sharps is several years long. Due to the big interest in BPRC shooting. (Black Powder Rifle Cartridge)
> I could not afford a $2,000 - $3,000 Shiloh Sharps, or a Pedersoli, but being a fan of the Old West I had to have a buffalo rifle. So I got what my thin wallet could afford - a New England Firearms Handi Rifle in 45/70. Weighs about 6 pounds and when you touch off a 405 grain lead slug it's not really too bad, but you do know for sure something just happened.:shock:


Pedersoli makes high quality Sharps reproductions


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

tango said:


> The 10mm was created (for the FBI), after the Miami shootout.
> The FBI agents were armed with 38's.
> When the 10mm was issued , some agents (male and female) could not handle the recoil.
> About the same time, S&W and Winchester were working on a .40 cal round, hence the 40 s&w.
> It passed the FBI protocols and soon replaced the 10mm.


If they can't shoot why are they in the FBI? Unless they are desk only.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't know.
I guess it was not a real perquisite.


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## shootbrownelk (Jul 9, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> If I went fishing up on the Kenai peninsula more often I would consider a Ruger Alaskan in 454. In point of fact, however, if a big Grizzly were to attack you I think you are toast no matter what. You are more likely to survive if it is your buddy who is carrying the weapon. In the contiguous 48 those types of guns are utterly useless. I carry a 9mm year round now.


 I'd add that the buddy carrying the weapon would be packing an 870 Remington 12 ga. full of slugs. Hopefully, he's a good shot.
The .454 Casull would be a last ditch effort. Montana & Wyoming have lots (too many) Grizzlies, and every year some tourist becomes lunch!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

"Use enough gun."
Robert Ruark
Noted African big game hunter.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

A 38 or 9mm or 40 may expand
A 45 will not shrink


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

Big bore guns are a ton of fun.


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