# What About Photos?



## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

I was just looking through some of my digital photos and it occurred to me what a great loss it would be if those became unavailable for whatever reason. I stopped printing pics a couple of kids ago. They're all backed up online, but I'm thinking it's time to make some hard copies of them. 

With all of the things we plan for having and storing, our digital treasures can be easy to overlook.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

I have all our digital photos and some other things saved on a CD and a USB Flash drive.


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

What about something like an EMP?


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

indie said:


> What about something like an EMP?


I think the threat of an EMP is quite over rated as to what would actually happen, unless it was a deliberate act by a country and the bigger threat would be the actual power grid and fallout so it probably wouldn't matter at that point, IMO.


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## Southern Dad (Nov 26, 2012)

In the show Revolution, that happens to one of the characters. The only pictures of her missing child is on her iPhone. Which of course, no longer works.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Print em.  Don't waste time putting them in albums. Print em and stick them in shoe boxes (do we still make those? I think we do).


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

dannydefense said:


> Print em.  Don't waste time putting them in albums. Print em and stick them in shoe boxes (do we still make those? I think we do).


Welcome, old-timer! :mrgreen:

Actually, I thought everyone used shoe-boxes. I was looking through a box, just the other day. Saw an old black and white of me as a kid with a flat top. Wish I had the hair for it, I'd sport that look, again.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Photos you print yourself have a limited life span. If you don't use archival quality inks and paper and don't store them carefully, they will start to fade in anywhere from a few months to a few years.

CD/DVD experiential life expectancy is 2 to 5 years even though published life expectancies are often cited as 10 years, 25 years, or longer. (Source: www.itl.nist.gov)

I keep my digital data on 1 TB My Passport external drives, which I protect from EMPs by wrapping them in foil. (before someone jumps on me about this.... this is the way the military protects some of its equipment.)


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## Nathan Jefferson (May 11, 2013)

Micro SD cards (with a USB reader) are my favorite for long term storage. Most are water proof and are almost TOO SMALL - making them easy to shield from just about anything. 

You can buy a 8 or 16 gig one online for 5-10$ and that SHOULD be able to store all of your photos, and a lot of videos too. They usually come with a hand plastic case for protection and then you can drop it in a safe/static shield bag, what have you.

FWIW, I have 3 different ones that have photos and copies of important documents (SS cards, license, bank details, passports, Titles, insurance, etc etc) - encrypted of course - stored in different spots. One in BOB, one in the home fire safe and a third at the BOL.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

We only print what we really want anymore,we have seen our own printed pics (from our printer)degrade even in albums.if we want some printed I pop them on an sd card and off to wallygreens we go.those seem to last pretty much forever.we keep a master back up on a 1tb external drive as we dont want the whole world looking at the stuff on a cloud.when we are away,the drive goes into the gun safe.thought about some 16 gb sd cards for storage and use them on our camera and camcorder(no I-phones) as they take up less room but the tb drive seems to work best as we have scanned alot of old pics,and converted some family super-8 and vcr tape with current digital pics and video and this takes up alot of room,even with a 750gb main drive.as far as emp goes, we hope the gun safe would protect it if we could put it in the safe in time.


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

I compared quality on the same photos between Costco and Walmart and Walmart was much nicer, surprisingly. I have been disappointed in any home printing methods I've tried, so we just send 'em off. For online, we back up with SugarSync, because it's free and automatically backs up new files and updates to existing files within folders you specify. That was a lifesaver when my comp died mid-project. Two hours later, I was up and running on a new comp and back to work. Whew!


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I back everything up locally in case the internet (which is probably just a fad) gets fazed out and we all just txt each other info. 

@TEOTD, 1ce net goes, 2MI is bad 4COL, AMOF, all 411 is bad. B4N


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> I back everything up locally in case the internet (which is probably just a fad) gets fazed out and we all just txt each other info.
> 
> *@TEOTD, 1ce net goes, 2MI is bad 4COL, AMOF, all 411 is bad. B4N*


OK, I'll admit it, I don't know what that means, but then my TracPhone isn't 4G or what ever the latest rage is. Swear to God, that's what I use, but it does have a camera.....


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm almost up to the 21 century though, I do have the first edition of Kindle. I've read 233 books on it!


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

@TEOTD, 1ce net goes, 2MI is bad 4COL, AMOF, all 411 is bad. B4N

At the end of the day, once the net goes, too much information is bad for crying out loud, as a matter of fact, all information is bad. Bye for now.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Prepadoodle,

Got it..... clear as mud. Never in a million years would I have figured that one out.


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

ekim said:


> Prepadoodle,
> 
> Got it..... clear as mud. Never in a million years would I have figured that one out.


Me either.


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## wesley762 (Oct 23, 2012)

Personally I am kinda torn with this, about the only thing we print is what we hang on the wall. I have a hard drive that has everything backedup on it and and duplicate backed up on DVD's and CD.

And who ever came up with this CD's only last 5 years is a bunch of crap. I have CD's I burned 10 years ago that are just as good as the day I created them. I have Music CD's from the Mid 90's that still work just fine. The music CD's are almost 20 years old and still use them.......


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

There's something about thumbing through a photo album that is lost with going completely digital.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

If you have a modern DVD drive on your computer you can set the "depth" of the recording for archival purposes. As long as they are kept out of direct sunlight, temperatures over 120F and in Tyvek envelopes they will last "forever". "Forever" being a hundred years or more.


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## Southern Dad (Nov 26, 2012)

As avid Mac users, both my daughter's and my MacBooks, iPhones and iPads are automatically backed up to our home MacPro. They also back up to the iCloud. I have a lot of printed pictures in collage frames but the television in the living room is a 52" digital picture frame, thanks to the Apple TV, when we aren't watching television. I told you, I'm an Apple. I have discovered, quite by accident that any photos you sent to Walmart Photo stay there forever.

In 2005, due to a divorce and other issues, I lost a computer that housed a ton of pictures. Pictures that I couldn't replace. Then I discovered that all the pictures were on Walmart.com: Save money. Live better. and I got them on a DVD for under $10. Do you know how happy I was to have all the pictures of my daughter's birth from 2002 back?


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

indie said:


> There's something about thumbing through a photo album that is lost with going completely digital.


Yep my work around for this is to set my screensaver to display the contents of my pictures folder. It cycles randomly through the pictures and you never know what's coming up next.

I've got a couple of laptop hard drives here that I use to back up documents and pictures. Drives get stored in anti-static bags and are kept in the gun safe. I have almost 38GB worth of pictures on this machine so backing up to CD or DVD would be a real chore. A flash drive might work I suppose though might have to start looking for it.

-Infidel


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

As long as you have the equipment to get the pictures off those hard drives you have it made. That will be hard to come by after an HEMP.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Southern Dad said:


> In 2005, due to a divorce and other issues, I lost a computer that housed a ton of pictures. Pictures that I couldn't replace. Then I discovered that all the pictures were on Walmart.com: Save money. Live better. and I got them on a DVD for under $10. Do you know how happy I was to have all the pictures of my daughter's birth from 2002 back?


am·biv·a·lence
/amˈbivələns/
noun
*1.* the state of having mixed feelings or contradictory ideas about something or someone, ie, discovering a large corporation has without your knowledge kept personal belongings of yours.


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## indie (Sep 7, 2013)

If we weren't already friends, I'd totally friend you, DD.


dannydefense said:


> am·biv·a·lence
> /amˈbivələns/
> noun
> *1.* the state of having mixed feelings or contradictory ideas about something or someone, ie, discovering a large corporation has without your knowledge kept personal belongings of yours.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

indie said:


> If we weren't already friends, I'd totally friend you, DD.


I've got the mad copy and paste skillz for an older guy.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

PaulS said:


> As long as you have the equipment to get the pictures off those hard drives you have it made. That will be hard to come by after an HEMP.


Very true but I suspect that we won't be living in the stone age forever and the technology will eventually come back afterwards. Hopefully we won't be as dependent on that technology afterwards. We print our favorite pictures but they won't last forever. We should probably invest in professional photo finishing for the most important pictures just in case. Probably only 20% of the photos on this machine are important, this is one of the drawbacks to the digital age, we end up keeping every picture we take instead of dumping the poorer quality pictures, I imagine we're not alone in this.

I wonder how electronics would hold up to an EMP in a gun safe. Seems to me it's kind of a faraday cage to start with, grounding it might not be a bad idea.

-Infidel


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A gun safe made of steel is almost no protection against an E1 pulse of an HEMP but would be good against the E2 and E3 pulses but you don't need to protect the electronics from those anyway. The E1 is the one that will take out the electronics. Place your hard drive in a Ziploc freezer bag, wrap it in heavy duty Aluminum foil, put that in another ziploc bag and wrap it in more foil and do it one more time an then it will be well protected from the E1 pulse. with the HEMP you don't have radiation or fallout just the three EM pulses. You will still need a computer to play it back, a monitor to view them and a printer to print them out so you might want to protect a computer, monitor and printer in the same way. If you want to store them in your gun safe place the protected pieces into a cardboard box and place it in the safe.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

wesley762 said:


> And who ever came up with this CD's only last 5 years is a bunch of crap. I have CD's I burned 10 years ago that are just as good as the day I created them. I have Music CD's from the Mid 90's that still work just fine. The music CD's are almost 20 years old and still use them.......


Commercially produced CDs (like music CDs) aren't burned, they are pressed. Yes, these will last a very long time unless physically damaged.

According to the Optical Storage Technology Association (OSTA), the unrecorded shelf life of a CD-R/DVD-R disc is conservatively estimated to be between 5 and 10 years. That data is from an association of manufacturers who tend to be optimistic. Understanding CD-R & CD-RW - Disc Longevity

CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R use an organic dye in the data layer. The actual life span varies with storage conditions and the specific dyes used. Manufacturers use accelerated testing methods which are supposed to reflect actual life spans, but these methods are questionable, at best. For example, they only take into account temperature and humidity when there are actually a wide variety of factors that affect life span. Even so, a fairly high percentage of those disks tested failed. If you want to see an example of an independent test, the International Journal for the Preservation of Library and Archival Material published some results HERE.

CD-RW, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD-RAM use a phase changing metal alloy film, and have their own problems and their own storage requirements. The 2-5 year experimental life span comes from the FAQs about Optical Storage Media published by the National Archives. You can find the FAQ here... www.archives.gov

Keep in mind that life span estimations are statistical in nature and represent averages. I have had CDs that are still good after 10 years and I have had some that have failed within a few months. Properly stored and handled, they could last longer... or not. <shrug>


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## kjoberk (Nov 6, 2013)

I print out my favorite pictures about once a year. Shutterfly.com has some good deals a few times a year (they just ran one that ended nov 1 for 101 free prints, you just pay shipping). And they get stored in a box. Then I backup my hard drive on my laptop every 6 months or so.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

I back up my hard drives weekly. I have CD's that I recorded using an archive technique (before modern drives) that are still viable. I have had hard drive failures more often than CD's or DVD's.
When I copy material that I want to save I use the archive burn process that makes a more durable recording of the data. I don't use re-writable discs because they do not keep information safe.
Anything stored on a "thumb" drive, bubble drive or magnetic media is temporary at best. A simple electronic surge can take out most and all are susceptible to the E1 pulse from an HEMP. Optical media is far from perfect but it is not possible to harm it with electrical or electromagnetic discharges. Heat and physical damage will ruin them but when stored properly they will outlast any other form of media that exists today. That is why the contents of the Library of Congress is being archived on optical media.


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