# Problems that can be fixed??



## bennettvm

I read a lot about how terrible things are in these forums - doom/gloom. But, what problems do you see and what are your ideas to fix them?

Now, lets leave out the Obama bashing. yes, I know he is the devil, antichrist or whatever. 

Example - education - I think that our school system needs to be revamped with a focus on heavy math/science. These are key to having a strong educated work force in the future.

Let's hear your ideas.


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## AsteroidX

Schooling: More options for homeschooling and Internet teaching for K-12. Theres a push in it already.


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## bennettvm

AsteroidX said:


> Schooling: More options for homeschooling and Internet teaching for K-12. Theres a push in it already.


Agree.


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## AsteroidX

> Yes,but OB wants to have forced indoctrination starting in pre-school (oops-no OB bashing)


Yeah I dont like that idea.


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## bennettvm

Wow, this is funny. No real tangible ideas to fix things? Just people that want to bitch and complain about Obama. LOL


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## Wallimiyama

Well Bennett...The indoctrination centers (K-12) in America are having a hard time keeping up with the rest of the world. Every subject is now catering to the lowest common denominator and revisionist history is rampant.
You want better education? Voucher programs that let parents decide where the money is spent would be a good start. And stop "mainstreaming" children that have no place in the classroom. And finally, do away with the corrupt teachers' unions that do not place the wellfare of our children anywhere in their top 10 priorities. Maybe that way, we could fire the garbage that is in front of our children everyday, and reward the teachers that actually teach.


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## Old Man

oswegoscott said:


> Can't think of any fixes,especially if we can't include your pal OB


Here is the deal on education to me. We spent more money than any other country, with a lot less results than countries like China and Japan. Don't get me wrong we have a lot of good people in our school system but we need to get back to the basic. Our kids are not evening getting the basics anymore. I work in manufacting and the young adults today can't even read a tape measure. China and Japan demand it out of their children. We make excuses for ours. The federal school system is so disfunctional, but all we hear from our goverment is to keep putting more money into it. Toyota just built a manufacturing plant in Mississippi. They are spent Millions through the colleges here to train a works forces. You would think with all the money we throw away for education they would be a work force out there. So my deal is give the local communties back the schools and get big goverment out.


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## AsteroidX

Schooling: More options for homeschooling and Internet teaching for K-12. Theres a push in it already. 

That is a tangible idea.


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## ekim

Problems that can be fixed, make congress a part time job with no benefits and term limits, make the supreme court accountable to the people, get the federal government out of private business, out of healthcare, stop government foreign aid, stop federal government from using the military as police force and nation building, enforce the laws already on the books, flat tax with no deductions, if your receiving federal assistance you can't vote, close the borders, make ALL laws apply equally to all citizens, eliminate federal education dept, follow the Constitution as written. That will fix most problems.


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## wesley762

The answer I think with Schooling is not the school itself but it starts at home. Be involved know what's going on with your child’s schooling. Be aware of what they are teaching and most of all be encouraging and correct it when needed. Teachers can only do so much and can only go so far. We can fuss about it all you want but the more involved you are in your child’s education the better off you are going to be. If you have issues with what they are teaching address the school with your concerns. If that does not solve it find another place to have your child attend. I wish I could afford to send mine to a private school but it's just not in the budget. Every night though we sit down and discuss what she learned that day. Plain and simple don't expect someone else to teach your child your values without being involved in it.


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## ozo

ekim said:


> Problems that can be fixed, make congress a part time job with no benefits and term limits, make the supreme court accountable to the people, get the federal government out of private business, out of healthcare, stop government foreign aid, stop federal government from using the military as police force and nation building, enforce the laws already on the books, flat tax with no deductions, if your receiving federal assistance you can't vote, close the borders, make ALL laws apply equally to all citizens, eliminate federal education dept, follow the Constitution as written. That will fix most problems.


Yeah, that is a sane and healthy start.....


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## 8675309

bennettvm said:


> Wow, this is funny. No real tangible ideas to fix things? Just people that want to bitch and complain about Obama. LOL


funny isn't it. People need to stop chasing the almighty dollar and spend time with THEIR CHILDREN! Teach them the things their great grandparents taught their grandparents and so on down the line. Somehow, that was lost when "distractions" started to come into play, anything to keep the kids busy while not being outside and learning or growing up. It is all about the dollar and the "latest" thing. All the work force is involved with promoting the latest thing, which is not a product. It is emptyware. it is a giant commercial for some POS that will be replaced with another POS in 6 months. And over time, Nothing is learned, nothing is around, pretty much a majority of the products sold in the US are just future land fill crap.

Stop creating laws that do nothing except cost people money. It must stop. Teach people to be responsible for themselves. for their familes. Be responsible to other Humans. The world is spiraling down the hole and the answer is not to buy more junk. It must be taugh to the generations we are responsible for that humans are what matter. Not hip hop, not sneakers, the latest iphone, multi screen tv's in every headrest in your SUV or van. it dont matter if you are doing 35 in a 30. No one is going to die from that. Red light cameras. Nothing more then a ATM that citizens fill up for the gov to create more laws, to bring in more money.

It is a run away train of greed. THAT is why nothing is getting better. Creating another panel or committee to figure out what to do is the biggest waste of time and money they could thing of.

The sad part is, it will never change. As long as the people who make the money are making the laws and running the US, it will never change.


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## wesley762

oswegoscott said:


> It's not only a values problem,which should be taught at home, but one of mandated harmful subjects (or lack of critical ones) and methods


That's why I said be involved in what you child is learning. If you don't like it do something about it because the government sure is not. The more involved you are the better things are going to be.


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## GTGallop

INFRASTRUCTURE!

We have decaying roads, bridges, dams, levees and public buildings all over this country.
We have hundreds of thousands out of work and hundreds of thousands that have quit looking and "retired" or went back to school to better themselves.
And lastly - we have hundreds of thousands of people on welfare that we PAY NOT TO WORK.

If I was president, Eight O'Clock, Day One - If your check says "From the United States of America" then you will get your ass up and earn that check, JACK! We have a great opportunity for public works projects. Employ people, restore pride in our country and restore honor in earning a wage.


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## ekim

wesley762 said:


> That's why I said be involved in what you child is learning. If you don't like it do something about it because the government sure is not. The more involved you are the better things are going to be.


I agree 100%, the only problem is the school systems and the government don't really want parents to do that, it takes away from the school and government control. Teachers, like LEO's are no longer smart enough or care enough to see what's going on, the paycheck is all that seems to matter any more so they just go along with the program!


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## Smitty901

Elections and the first one that gets up and say I am going to take from and give to you is thrown out the door.


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## Smitty901

We could get rid of DHS. Another case of them ignoring rights. 3 year old child in a wheel chair.
TSA Detains 3-year-old in Wheelchair | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes


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## rickkyw1720pf

In 1938, the practice of homeschooling was outlawed in Germany by Adolf Hitler and the infamous Third Reich. It was a rough period in German history, as thousands of young people were being pried from their parents' direction and authority and drafted into the Hitler Youth program, where they were supposed to be trained as Aryan supermen (and women).

So it is no wonder that the Justice Dept last week came out with this statement.
The U.S. Attorney General has said this about homeschooling. There is no fundamental liberty to homeschool. So long as a government bans homeschooling broadly and equally, there is no violation of your rights. This is a view which gives some acknowledgement to the principle of equal protection but which entirely jettisons the concept of fundamental liberties."
Homeschooling Not a Fundamental Right, Justice Dept. Argues

I don't think our problems can be fixed just like your computer that some times get so infected with viruses the only solution is a complete reset.


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## Ripon

You asked.

Taxes. We simply have an archaic system that must be made fair and overhauled. We must collect what it takes to keep our budget balanced and if everyone was paying maybe the wants would decline a little. I favor a sales tax, income tax and wealth tax. This would be a combo of three taxes so the rates can be low, we can prob manage on 20% of GDP.

Energy. We talk about independence but don't grasp it. We have a surplus in social security. Invest it in a few nuclear power plants so it can generate a return later when social security needs it.

Health Care. Govts only job should be to help the people when markets create problems. There is limited supply so demand creates a serious cost burden. Take 1% a year of our Fed health care budget and create universities that will flood the market with health care pros until costs finally decline. 

Crime. Provide an incentive for people to arm themselves and care for their building / or blocks in time of crisis. A civilian police force from the home costs very little and ask Switzerland .. It's effective.


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## IngaLisa

In high school, start with parenting classes, so kids have an idea what they are doing when they have kids, eventually, I hope. Teach young parents how important it is to read to their kids. My grand daughter is 18 months old and knows her colors and her animals and the sounds they make. She can also use an Ipad. She even picks her own apps. My 3 year old grandson uses a Kindle, and has a huge vocabulary. We are working on reading skills. Early education is vital. We need more preschool education and/or educationally based daycare. Kids need to enter kindergarten as readers. 

Education does need to be more math and science based, but kids have to know how to read and spell. I think that kids need more drills in math. Kids don't do math facts any more. That said, they really need more technology education. We also introduce physics too late in their schooling. I don't think kids are learning geography early enough or well enough. They need more history and civics. I think kids have too much fru-fru stuff and don't spend enough hours in class.

As far as homeschooling, I tried it, and I realize I am not a teacher. I have taught adults, even taught a pharmacology class for nurses, but, teaching children is tough. I think kids benefit socially from being in a school.

I live in a town that values education. We have 2 school systems, one religious private school, K thru 12 and a similarly sized public school. We do not share any facilities, other than kids who attend the private school and live in our district get bus service. They also can take part in any public school program, such as the rec program. In the last 5 years we have built a brand new green LEED certified public middle school with incredible technology tools for the teachers and kids. We just passed a referendum to build a new elementary school, also to be green and LEED certified. We have broken ground on that project. We also remodeled our high school. We have a half day summer school program. 4K program, and our city runs a great recreational program that runs the gamut from flag football, to soccer to gymnastics, to swimming lessons. I know I live in a community that values its children. Our teachers get a living wage, with benefits that are fair, so we have had no problems attracting decent staff, despite severe statewide cuts in education. We have some significant challenges to overcome with statewide cuts, but, our community voted to increase taxes to build a new elementary school, we will continue to invest in our school. My town has just under 6000 people in it but also covers a large rural area in the district.

I would love to see somewhat more stringent core studies in math, science, geography, history, civics. I think kids need more than one biology, and chemistry class. I think the social stuff needs to be toned down. There is too much emphasis on extracurriculars. Physics should be required and so should 4 years of math in high school. Looking back, I would have pushed my kids way harder, and I have to admit I have accomplished kids. Three have masters degrees, one in engineering, one in health policy, and one in energy policy.


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## prepgirl

* Get rid of the Fed.
* Take the income cap off of social security tax.
* Stop printing money to control the economy. 
* Go back to the dollar backed by gold.
* Stop consumerism - There should be no more "Joneses". "Retail therapy" is one of the most ridiculous phrases I've ever heard. It doesn't work, either. 
* Make mental health a priority.
* Go to banking institutions owned by members, get rid of banks and financiers
* Stop bloated government and government waste. Go back to a minimal government.
* Require people getting free health care to take care of themselves rather than depending on medications so that they don't have to change their ways. 
* Reduce military spending.
* Get back to basics - gardening, canning, hunting and fishing, hands-on skills. City folks can develop community gardens. 
* Offer basic skills classes first to those on welfare. Skills and knowledge are the first tools a person can use to create in their own independence.
* Make energy independence a priority. We are moving too slowly in solar, wind, geothermal and hydro-power technologies.
* Remove agricultural subsidies where they are no longer needed. That time has passed. 
* Follow Europe's lead and use natural medicines. This has the potential of disarming big pharma. 
* Stop Monsanto by not buying their garbage. Farmers could take control back. 
* Get back to micro economies.
* Do away with industrial farming. Communities can stabilize and cushion themselves by growing their own food. 
* Create independent communities. 
* No government bailouts.
* Stop raping the earth and other countries for the natural resources. Just focus on renewables in our own back yard. 

That's all I have for now. Thanks for bringing this up. Great topic!


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## Lucky Jim

If I'd had kids I'd have definitely home-schooled them myself rather than entrust them to complete strangers (teachers) for indoctrination for years of their precious young lives.
I'd teach them to read and write, and have a colourful childrens encyclopedia in the house for them to browse through, and bingo they'd be set up for life..


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## Piratesailor

bennettvm said:


> I read a lot about how terrible things are in these forums - doom/gloom. But, what problems do you see and what are your ideas to fix them?
> 
> Now, lets leave out the Obama bashing. yes, I know he is the devil, antichrist or whatever.
> 
> Example - education - I think that our school system needs to be revamped with a focus on heavy math/science. These are key to having a strong educated work force in the future.
> 
> Let's hear your ideas.


Ok, let's start with education. I'd dissolve the federal education board, which is a waste of money and resources, and put it back to the states. They will have better resources next to the population and compete for the best students.

Dissolve the IRS. Flat/fair tax that everyone pays.. Period

And the list goes on.


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## punch

Piratesailor said:


> Ok, let's start with education. I'd dissolve the federal education board, which is a waste of money and resources, and put it back to the states. They will have better resources next to the population and compete for the best students.
> 
> Dissolve the IRS. Flat/fair tax that everyone pays.. Period
> 
> And the list goes on.


I agree, dump the IRS and shift to a consumption tax. That way anyone who is in this country is paying their fair share. If you buy a Lexus or a Ford proportionally you will pay at the same tax rate. And also illegals will pay everytime at the register. Obviously there would be tax exeptions for retail and resale but the taxes would flow to the state directly benefitting the tax payers. If we ain't gonna enforce immigration laws then they can bitch and moan about the tax on a soda just like me.(punch doesn't drink a lot of soda)If you like this you might like my safe and cruelty free "Illegal Alien No Kill Trebuchet" I am desighing to return Illegals commiting crimes in my country. Child and throwphy(get it throw) baby sizes available in summer of 2013. What? You just got here today and say you commited no crime?(yet) Thats a crime! Pull! 
I'm just sayin...

punch (Paul Harvey, I'm not.) Good Day!


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## Ripon

I've never supported the fair tax initiative because they truly believe in just one form of taxation (on consumption). Outside of govt almost all of our countries jobs are based on consumption. There is research that says people will seek all measures (even illegal) to avoid taxes higher then 18.5%. A consumption tax that collects 20% of GDP but exempts some items or pre bates some money to the poor would have to be in the 25% range, and would hence be seriously avoided. 

1). Apply a flat income tax to pay for social security and medicare, and face it they aren't going away. Adjust the rate every year to maintain a balanced budget. No limits on what kind of income or how much income and the rate can probably fall to 10%. 

2). A flat sales / consumption tax, no exemptions of 10% would result in darn near 1/2 our need. 

3). A wealth tax of 1/2 of 1% on accumulated wealth over $1m would make up the difference from those it doesn't impact all that much. Wealth would be cash, real estate, stocks, partnerships, bonds, notes etc etc. 

Those three taxes would probably raise 20% of GDP. We would not need gasoline taxes, corporate taxes, inheritance taxes, and the multitude of tax breaks that exist.


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## punch

Hey I know my solution is not perfect but like you I am offering something. the current lack of action sucks and it totally plays into all the illegal voter fraud that help hussien pull another 4 year gig. There is a number of hard working legal immigrants in this country already. Lets afford help and benefits to them and let the others wait in line. Right now its a free for all. And its like the floods gate are opening wider. My family arrived here when racism was at an all time high. My old man always acted as a gentleman and wouldn't even let us kids run barefoot like the neighborhood kids because he didn't come to America to watch his kids run around like they didn't have shoes. Being first generation American, I've seen my share of racism but its not my handy excuse to blame ****** for my woes. I've had many ask me if I'm registered as a minority business and I always say no because my work speaks for itself and I can compete with anyone based on that and I am not the Kmart of my little niche. I'm busier than a one-footed man in butt kicking factory. Ask me what business I am in, go ahead ask me. (hey punch! "what business are you in?") Hey glad you asked, I'm in the butt kicking business. Now ask me hows business punch? (hows' business punch?) Well, business has been real good lately... It ain't me. I don't deserve it. I am blessed. I don't work everyday and I like that just fine. I'm not the brightest business mind but God is Good all the time. I just have trouble keeping my yap shut.

"Jesus is Lord"


punch


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## rickkyw1720pf

Home schooling is the way to go, the school system doesn't wan't you to believe in individualism but to think you are just one of the many. Most children that home school find that the can easily keep up with the public school with only spending half the time and now there are many home schooling groups that do things together as a group.

I would love to have been this little girls parents when the school told her she can't attend school and have a contract also. Now after 2-years of home schooling she has a estimated net worth of 2.5 million not bad for a 12 year old. You would think they would want to use her as a model of what can be achieved at a young age, or talking about the different cultures she experienced traveling around the world.






And this girl who's parents had to take her out of school and home school her. Any one that thinks home school hurt she has written several books and is considered one of the wealthiest teenagers and is the world's only known Bi-prodigy. She is a prodigy in both art and poetry. And it seems like all the winners in spelling and math contest are home schooled. The reason the government is against homeschooling isn't because it doesn't work but because it is so successful.
Home Page - Akiane, child prodigy


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## Lucky Jim

EDIT- I've just found out Pete Seeger was a member of the US Communist Party so I've deleted this post because in it I accidentally gave the impression that he was a good guy.
Hell will freeze before I think any Commie is a good guy!


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## AsteroidX

The options for homeschooling are huge. Theres even jobs for teachers to help in the homeschooling by being tutors for parents that may not be up to the task. The Interent. Heres one site that is already built and theres likely many more and theres even some being sponsored by local school districts.

https://www.khanacademy.org/


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## 8675309

rickkyw1720pf said:


> a 12 year old. Y
> Home Page - Akiane, child prodigy


hmm...I am going to say it was a recording. watch how far off mike she is and the volume does not change.


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## rickkyw1720pf

8675309 said:


> hmm...I am going to say it was a recording. watch how far off mike she is and the volume does not change.


Actually I thought it was fake also at first and there was a lot of people who complained to American's Got Talent (America's largest talent show). But it has been proven many times that it wasn't and both Akiane Kramarik the artist and Jackie Evancho the singer are considered prodigies. In Akiane Kramarik case I doubt any class could have kept up with her. She was drawing much better than me at 4 years old and by 6 better than anyone I know. And at 7 she sold her art collection for 3 million. Home page Our school system is not structured to handle really talented children and for them to reach their full potential they have to home-school which is sad the only talent our schools are interested in is sports, and they will bend over backwards for them. But very little for individuals with intelligence or other talents besides sports.


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## pakrat

As a prepper/survivalist, I’m not interested in fixing anything. I’m interested in getting ready for the eventual fallout from all of the stuff that’s broke. If you want solutions, go to a political science or social reform forum. This is like asking a group of grave diggers how their client’s lives might have been saved. We function downstream of the circumstances and events that drive us to what we do…. prepare. If we thought we could fix it all, we’d been optimistic community activists and not preppers. 

Bitching is a way of commiserating and acknowledging the general futility of the situation… not to be mistaken for any glimmer of hope that working within the corrupt and agenda-infected system would yield any positive results. If you believe that things can be turned around and that change can still be accomplished, you’re probably not going to be well prepared when that doesn’t happen.


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## Smitty901

Public school is little more that daycare for 70% or the students it is indoctrination camp for 100%. Now Obama wants to take them a 4 years old to start training them sooner.
There is little hope of fixing it maybe when we start over we will get it right for awhile then we will make the same mistakes over again .


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## alterego

Below is my position on the major talking points.
Alterego Manifesto Rev. 2

1.) Energy Policy; Develop domestic forms of fuel, establish a reinvestment of the tax dollars gleaned from the revenue and reinvest it into renewable forms of energy. Stop sending trillions of dollars over seas to purchase oil from countries that support terrorism. Set a 10 year plan into action to wean the US from importing fuel from Communist or terrorist supporting nations.

2.) Foreign Exchange Policy; 20 percent tariffs on all China made goods immediately; rising by 5 percent each year for each year China refuses to revalue their currency. Make it illegal to import goods of any form from socialist, communist, dictatorship nations. Citizens be aware that any time you purchase goods stamped made in china, you are financially supporting our enemy.

3.) Defend our borders. Arizona is doing what the US government is not willing to do. Finish the fence between the US and Mexico. Kill any illegal’s invading our country; send their corpse home with a trebuchet.

4.) Societal Burden; Make the prison system as close to self sustaining a possible. We have a safety net society that has created a segment of the population into dependants of the state. Most of the individuals within the prison system are not being trained or rehabilitated to be self sufficient individuals if and when they are released after serving their debt to society. There is clearly a need for farm laborers. The prisoners should be dependent on raising their own food, and maintaining a group of animals as needed to feed themselves. Train the incarcerated to replace the illegal aliens by making them dependant on their ability to raise their own food geographically to match the prison location. Texas should train prisoners to maintain ranches, Floridians to pick oranges and strawberries, Michigan to pick apples. Non compliance or lack of success would require rationing of food and prosperity in the prison, just as it is in free society. 
I am gainfully employed and continue to grow a garden every year. Why should the prisoners get three meals a day and not do a damn thing to support themselves. Train them to support themselves in free society, stop making them into life time dependence. 
Horticulture, Milking, Ranching, Fruit Gathering, Meet preparation, Packaging, Row Cropping, any where there is a presents of illegal aliens train the prisoners to replace them.
Offer early release for success and good behavior. Subsidies to the farms that hire the released prisoners. Use the farms that use the released prisoners for training grounds for the incarcerated. Repeat and return offenders should be punished. Three time felony offenders should suffer capital punishment.

5.) Drug Policy; Decriminalize marijuana immeadiatly. Make any other drug offense that is violent, involves weapons, minors, or previous drug offenders a felony. Three convictions for three felonies gets you executed. 

6.) Public Assistance programs; Eliminate all medicare, medicade, social security disability for able-bodied recipients. Each individual requesting public assistance shall be tested by three unassociated professionals in that field for approval Cut off all public assistance for failure to show up to a work program on a timely basis.

7.) Change unemployment to be a self funded program in which a percentage of your hourly wage is invested into a fund that has a guaranteed interest rate of 1-1/2% over the rate of inflation that will be paid back by a monthly draw over a two year period or at time of disability or retirement. When the monies in the account are used up, you no longer receive payment.

8.) All out war on any group or nation that attacks the US. Destroy Pakistan if necessary; get out of Afghanistan. Those people cannot be taught differently it is in their heritage, let them dominate each other.

9.) Abortion; Make abortions illegal, except when the physical survival of the mother is threatened, to be determined by three medical doctors. Require Norplant for all women on welfare of childbearing age until they are no longer on public assistance. No child birth control, no assistance.

10.) Family; Encourage child bearing among taxpaying citizens. Create a marriage incentive, through lower taxes for married heterosexual couples. And a governmental subsidy for each child conceived and carried to birth. Increase the subsidies for each year the couple remains married.

11.) Eliminate all foreign ownership of any American media entity. Two, break up overly large conglomerates, like News Corporation. Three, Stop Governmental incentive and financial support of any news, radio, or broadcasting agency.

12.) Governmental Restriction; Limit the size of state and federal government. Demand a balanced budget, except in time of war that has been declared by congress. Hang anyone who suggests otherwise for treason. All members of government at all levels shall participate in standardized insurance, retirement and benefit programs. Any publicly appointed representative attempting to separate themselves from the populous for any special considerations will be tried in a court, and if found guilty, hung for treason against their country.

13.) Criminology; Institute Capital punishment for any individual, convicted of a felony three times. Immediately. Make a public spectacle of the event so that people relate the punishment to improper behavior.


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## rickkyw1720pf

alterego 
I could go along with most but I would be careful about what is a felony, Remember they just charged that soldier with 3 felonies for having 3 30 rnd magazines in NYC. How about some type of punishment for any politician that goes against his oath to follow the Constitution. I would also turn this country back into the Republic it started and not the Democracy they claim we are. I would make all police chief's jobs to be an elected position like the Sheriffs the way the Constitution states not for the mayors and government officials to have their own personal military. But it is never going to happen, you may have put a lot of thought in your post and watch the news all the time, but some person on welfare and never worked a day in his life has the same voting power as you possibly more. When this country was started not everyone had the right to vote and there isn't nothing in the Constitution about everyone having a right to vote and Benjamin Franklin had it right when he said we are a Republic and that a Democracy can not last.


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## inceptor

A few things that would help: 

Require politicians to have to live by the laws they create. 

Not have a Congressional healthcare benefit that no one else has access to. 

Not have full salary retirement for Congress. Apply the rule of 80 to retiring politicians. 

Or better yet, no career politicians. Set time limits.


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## AsteroidX

The felony laws and TBH misdemeanor laws as well need a complete and thorough redo. They are draconian. Maybe some have good merit but we need to separate what is a major offense and what is a petty offense.


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## ekim

Home schoolimg and being a child prodigy are not the same thing. Odds are she would excel no matter where she is schooled, although a public school would probably slow her down some!


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## ekim

alterego said:


> Below is my position on the major talking points.
> Alterego Manifesto Rev. 2
> 
> 1.) Energy Policy; Develop domestic forms of fuel, establish a reinvestment of the tax dollars gleaned from the revenue and reinvest it into renewable forms of energy. Stop sending trillions of dollars over seas to purchase oil from countries that support terrorism. Set a 10 year plan into action to wean the US from importing fuel from Communist or terrorist supporting nations.
> 
> 2.) Foreign Exchange Policy; 20 percent tariffs on all China made goods immediately; rising by 5 percent each year for each year China refuses to revalue their currency. Make it illegal to import goods of any form from socialist, communist, dictatorship nations. Citizens be aware that any time you purchase goods stamped made in china, you are financially supporting our enemy.
> 
> 3.) Defend our borders. Arizona is doing what the US government is not willing to do. Finish the fence between the US and Mexico. Kill any illegal's invading our country; send their corpse home with a trebuchet.
> 
> 4.) Societal Burden; Make the prison system as close to self sustaining a possible. We have a safety net society that has created a segment of the population into dependants of the state. Most of the individuals within the prison system are not being trained or rehabilitated to be self sufficient individuals if and when they are released after serving their debt to society. There is clearly a need for farm laborers. The prisoners should be dependent on raising their own food, and maintaining a group of animals as needed to feed themselves. Train the incarcerated to replace the illegal aliens by making them dependant on their ability to raise their own food geographically to match the prison location. Texas should train prisoners to maintain ranches, Floridians to pick oranges and strawberries, Michigan to pick apples. Non compliance or lack of success would require rationing of food and prosperity in the prison, just as it is in free society.
> I am gainfully employed and continue to grow a garden every year. Why should the prisoners get three meals a day and not do a damn thing to support themselves. Train them to support themselves in free society, stop making them into life time dependence.
> Horticulture, Milking, Ranching, Fruit Gathering, Meet preparation, Packaging, Row Cropping, any where there is a presents of illegal aliens train the prisoners to replace them.
> Offer early release for success and good behavior. Subsidies to the farms that hire the released prisoners. Use the farms that use the released prisoners for training grounds for the incarcerated. Repeat and return offenders should be punished. Three time felony offenders should suffer capital punishment.
> 
> 5.) Drug Policy; Decriminalize marijuana immeadiatly. Make any other drug offense that is violent, involves weapons, minors, or previous drug offenders a felony. Three convictions for three felonies gets you executed.
> 
> 6.) Public Assistance programs; Eliminate all medicare, medicade, social security disability for able-bodied recipients. Each individual requesting public assistance shall be tested by three unassociated professionals in that field for approval Cut off all public assistance for failure to show up to a work program on a timely basis.
> 
> 7.) Change unemployment to be a self funded program in which a percentage of your hourly wage is invested into a fund that has a guaranteed interest rate of 1-1/2% over the rate of inflation that will be paid back by a monthly draw over a two year period or at time of disability or retirement. When the monies in the account are used up, you no longer receive payment.
> 
> 8.) All out war on any group or nation that attacks the US. Destroy Pakistan if necessary; get out of Afghanistan. Those people cannot be taught differently it is in their heritage, let them dominate each other.
> 
> 9.) Abortion; Make abortions illegal, except when the physical survival of the mother is threatened, to be determined by three medical doctors. Require Norplant for all women on welfare of childbearing age until they are no longer on public assistance. No child birth control, no assistance.
> 
> 10.) Family; Encourage child bearing among taxpaying citizens. Create a marriage incentive, through lower taxes for married heterosexual couples. And a governmental subsidy for each child conceived and carried to birth. Increase the subsidies for each year the couple remains married.
> 
> 11.) Eliminate all foreign ownership of any American media entity. Two, break up overly large conglomerates, like News Corporation. Three, Stop Governmental incentive and financial support of any news, radio, or broadcasting agency.
> 
> 12.) Governmental Restriction; Limit the size of state and federal government. Demand a balanced budget, except in time of war that has been declared by congress. Hang anyone who suggests otherwise for treason. All members of government at all levels shall participate in standardized insurance, retirement and benefit programs. Any publicly appointed representative attempting to separate themselves from the populous for any special considerations will be tried in a court, and if found guilty, hung for treason against their country.
> 
> 13.) Criminology; Institute Capital punishment for any individual, convicted of a felony three times. Immediately. Make a public spectacle of the event so that people relate the punishment to improper behavior.


Some of those may sound good, but I don't think they could be put into a working plan and some sound down right dangerous and the biggest problem would be who would be in control/charge of all that. I sure wouldn't want a government to do it.


----------



## punch

inceptor said:


> A few things that would help:
> 
> Require politicians to have to live by the laws they create.
> 
> Not have a Congressional healthcare benefit that no one else has access to.
> 
> Not have full salary retirement for Congress. Apply the rule of 80 to retiring politicians.
> 
> Or better yet, no career politicians. Set time limits.


I would like to add that all politician have to have obama care as well. No more lifelong golden parachutes for anyone especially potash


----------



## punch

pakrat said:


> As a prepper/survivalist, I'm not interested in fixing anything. I'm interested in getting ready for the eventual fallout from all of the stuff that's broke. If you want solutions, go to a political science or social reform forum. This is like asking a group of grave diggers how their client's lives might have been saved. We function downstream of the circumstances and events that drive us to what we do&#8230;. prepare. If we thought we could fix it all, we'd been optimistic community activists and not preppers.
> 
> Bitching is a way of commiserating and acknowledging the general futility of the situation&#8230; not to be mistaken for any glimmer of hope that working within the corrupt and agenda-infected system would yield any positive results. If you believe that things can be turned around and that change can still be accomplished, you're probably not going to be well prepared when that doesn't happen.


You seem to be turned on by the thought of a shtf event. I say the majority on those here are planning for the worst but hoping for the best. I want my kids to grow up in a free society. But make no mistake, I'd drop an unrully prepper just as quick as I'd drop a theif in the night poking around we he ought not to be. And there won't be no my word against his, just my word. I am not out to settle scores or be part of the new ruling class. If the shtf, sure life will be harder but I will keep what is mine. Just try me...

punch (Acog, because I'm worth it)


----------



## Lucky Jim

pakrat said:


> As a prepper/survivalist, I'm not interested in fixing anything. I'm interested in getting ready for the eventual fallout from all of the stuff that's broke. If you want solutions, go to a political science or social reform forum...


Yeah I share your same FTW point of view (F*** the World)!
Personally a massive world-busting Apocalypse of some sort that wipes out 95% of the world's population wouldn't bother me in the least because it'd be like a 'Great Cleansing' and humans can start again in a cleaner simpler fresher world. Heck we might even ENJOY it..
The writing's on the wall-
_"The time has come for judging the dead.. and for destroying those who destroy the earth" (Revelation 11:18 )_


----------



## Bailey

bennettvm said:


> I read a lot about how terrible things are in these forums - doom/gloom. But, what problems do you see and what are your ideas to fix them?
> 
> Now, lets leave out the Obama bashing.
> Let's hear your ideas.


One way you people could help the economy is to stop buying cheap inferior Chinese goods. Demand made in the USA.

I was looking for a new survival knife and having used American made tools for many years (Marshalltown Trowels and Estwing Hammers) I know they are good I also own a couple of Buck knives. I was amazed to see how many well known companies are selling cheapo Chinese made knives.


----------



## Bailey

oswegoscott said:


> I've put a lot of mud on walls with a M-town trowel and pounded many nails with an Estwing


We only just met and already i like you :smile:
I'm a plasterer by trade (30 years ) but i have a great interest in everything conservation tree/planting woodland managment and old bushcraft skills.


----------



## prepgirl

pakrat said:


> As a prepper/survivalist, I'm not interested in fixing anything. I'm interested in getting ready for the eventual fallout from all of the stuff that's broke. If you want solutions, go to a political science or social reform forum. This is like asking a group of grave diggers how their client's lives might have been saved. We function downstream of the circumstances and events that drive us to what we do&#8230;. prepare. If we thought we could fix it all, we'd been optimistic community activists and not preppers.
> 
> Bitching is a way of commiserating and acknowledging the general futility of the situation&#8230; not to be mistaken for any glimmer of hope that working within the corrupt and agenda-infected system would yield any positive results. If you believe that things can be turned around and that change can still be accomplished, you're probably not going to be well prepared when that doesn't happen.


I think what the OP intended to find out is whether or not preppers were just bitching and complaining about how things are, or if they were generally a group who was willing to offer solutions. It's one thing to bitch and complain, it's something entirely different to offer solutions. Almost everyone can bitch and complain, but not everyone can come up with solutions. I see it every single day.

I can assure you that if the SHTF and we get back to a place of wanting to be a civilized society, we'll have many of these problems again at some point. And if we are in a place where we cannot recognize solutions to those problems and head them off at the pass at a critical point, we'll just end up in the same place again. Having said that, as long as there is greed and hunger for power over others, there is a problem.


----------



## bennettvm

prepgirl said:


> I think what the OP intended to find out is whether or not preppers were just bitching and complaining about how things are, or if they were generally a group who was willing to offer solutions. It's one thing to bitch and complain, it's something entirely different to offer solutions. Almost everyone can bitch and complain, but not everyone can come up with solutions. I see it every single day.
> 
> I can assure you that if the SHTF and we get back to a place of wanting to be a civilized society, we'll have many of these problems again at some point. And if we are in a place where we cannot recognize solutions to those problems and head them off at the pass at a critical point, we'll just end up in the same place again. Having said that, as long as there is greed and hunger for power over others, there is a problem.


You are correct prepgirl. I have read a lot of posts on here about how terrible things are, this or that sucks. The government is terrible or whatever. Yes, I agree - the red tape and BS from DC is mind numbing. However, real solutions start on the personal, then local level, and work their way up the chain. I think that as preppers we need to not only prepare for the worst, but also try to prevent it from happening in the first place. Because honestly, who wants to have to dig into their stash, live off the land, crap in a 5 gallon bucket and take a shower with a baby wipe for years on end?


----------



## prepgirl

oswegoscott said:


> Societies crumble or are overthrown--this has always been the case. We are at that point--no fixes,repairs,reversals. I wish it would hurry up so we can start another decent place to live-for a while,anyway


Right. And I'm not saying that I think it is or is not fixable. I still don't think that's what the OP was asking. What I am saying is that if we don't have any answers/solutions now, we won't have them when we get to that place again. Won't that be important if we do hurry up, get it over with, and "start another decent place to live"?


----------



## Bailey

prepgirl said:


> What I am saying is that if we don't have any answers/solutions now, we won't have them when we get to that place again. Won't that be important if we do hurry up, get it over with, and "start another decent place to live"?


You're right.
Every problem has a solution.


----------



## prepgirl

Bailey said:


> You're right.
> Every problem has a solution.


I don't know. Maybe. But many/most of our problems do have solutions. I think our issues are just symptoms and there are underlying root causes.


----------



## prepgirl

drt4lfe said:


> Greed and Corruption rule the day....


ITA. And I do believe this is a fundamental cause at the heart of many of the sickening symptoms we see. As long as man cannot rise above his apparently inherent, fundamental greed and power-hungry nature, we will never overcome and be free. So, it seems, many of our problems stem from man's inherent nature.


----------



## punch

But it won't be one big event that wipes out humanity. We help create the mess so we get to stay and clean up after the party. It will be smaller events with a significant localized impact like hurricane sandy. many of us will feel bad but glad it didn't actually affect us until the frequency of these events increase and we notice that we are being affected and we soon realize that the goverment response is lacking, slow or non-existant. There will not be any sandy-esc relief benefit telethons because after the numerous runs on the banking system, even those of you who invested in gold will feel somewhat fortunate but not so fortunate you want to just give it away. Inflation at this point is out of control, basic comodity items cost an arm and a leg. Violence and power is the new currency. Those who are prepped will be preparded but not for the length and severity of these events. Life becomes harder still, between the hoards and hoodlums now the military tries to establish control by removing all weapons from legal citizens, the UN steps in to help with forein troops to enforce martial law, with everyone seemingly equal wide spread looting and mayhem ensue and it gets worse still. Now the U.N. and the EU own significant U.S. Property and interests, we've become a consumer nation so our value and utility is minimal. We are stuck between a 3rd world and 2nd world nation. The U.N. wonders what to do with us and best lays out what in essence is a fire sale of American industry and technology. Your precious gold is confiscated to stablize the new currency, you are given credit vouchers and a gov't debit card. You are made to register in order to buy or sell. You take the mark of the beast. Its all been written, its going to happen, but I bet most of us has not even read about how it all ends because its too difficult to fathom, but happen it will.
Many of you think that you are set and eventually the gov't will regain control before you run out of veggies and start into your wise food products. Remember, it took 3 weeks for fema to get bottled water to the superdome. The gov't will have their hands full trying to restore electricity and infrastructure. And to be honest, none of us will be totally prepped supply wise, transpo-wise or even prepared to kill a looter or even a neighbor showing up to borrow a generator because you told him about prepping and while he didn't listen or learn anything, he remembered you have two gennys, 4-wheelers and a well. What will you do then? There no one-time shot. We get to stay and pay the piper. Like in wrestling, do you want a full submittion by rear-naked choke or do you want to ground and pound before you end the brawl. there is no free lunch. Some of us will be lucky and band together with like minded folks. And some will be looted out and ransacked by strangers and neighbors alike. Thats the reality. So trust in God. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil. 4:13

punch, 

Its not that I don't trust God, but I will have my Bible in one hand and a bat in the other. And a bat can be any number of things...
I'm jus sayin'...


----------



## Bailey

drt4lfe said:


> Greed and Corruption rule the day....


Was there ever a time when that was not so.


----------



## punch

Bailey said:


> One way you people could help the economy is to stop buying cheap inferior Chinese goods. Demand made in the USA.
> 
> I was looking for a new survival knife and having used American made tools for many years (Marshalltown Trowels and Estwing Hammers) I know they are good I also own a couple of Buck knives. I was amazed to see how many well known companies are selling cheapo Chinese made knives.


Oh, sure. Tell me you stopped shopping at Kmart, walmart, home depot, office depot, Target. You buy chinese all the time. Go buy that POS chevy volt, I'll keep driving my Nissan truck because its better. When I worked in Mfg already many of my Forging sources were outsourcing to forein mills, I had to draw the line at no crap forgings from india, most stainless material is foreign, most steel is forein, china buy our scrap and sells it back to us as toasters.
I buy Koyo bearings from japan because they use timken steel and Timken is higher than a cat's ass. I've done 1st person quality audits to you name it and they are flat better. If the US built a better product it would sell more, but they don't so they won't. We like that Diesel is taxed at a higher rate than gasoline and feel we dodged a bullet tax-wise. But diesel is one of the first by-products that comes off when you refine crude oil. Its much cheaper to make, it keeps way longer than gasoline and engines that burn it are far more efficient with higher power to weight ratios, but the corrupt gov't and the big automakers are already set-up to make cars with gasoline engines. so like everyone, the big 3 hates change, so they buy up electirc car companies & buy the licensing for the EV technology then deem it unfeasable, then shelve or shitcan the technology to keep it out of the marketplace. So go buy a friggin volt today you bunch of liars. If you can eat it, wear it, or buy it, chances are an american truck driver had a hand in bringing it to the place that you bought it. So taxing diesel so much more than gasoline screws us all. It increases the prices of all goods bought and sold. God Bless the American Independant Truck Driver. You may be buying your buck knives and estwing hammers but you are buying just as much chines crap as I am. And if you say I'm wrong, well I got some American made gold chains I want to sell you. Layered in genuine santo gold. Everyone has an easy solution today. Ask yourself, What did you do today to support and promote an American Business? Because I walk it like I talk it.

punch, (self-employed-american-small-businessman/tradesman)


----------



## prepgirl

Bailey said:


> Was there ever a time when that was not so.


Good question.


----------



## prepgirl

How do you know for sure? Maybe it was the case during the caveman days when there was less to own and fight over and everyone was just trying to steer clear of the dinosaurs. :>)

So, are you saying that people are just born this way? Or could there be something else going on? May I take this to another level and ask what is at the heart/core of greed, corruption and power?


----------



## Bailey

punch said:


> Ask yourself, What did you do today to support and promote an American Business? Because I walk it like I talk it.


Well i promoted them by saying i have used American made tools for many years because I think they are the best, and i have tried to support them by posting a message that clearly states "Demand made in the USA".


----------



## inceptor

Bailey said:


> Was there ever a time when that was not so.


Greed and Corruption have always been with us. The degree of which varies from time to time. 30+ years ago it was a lot less prevalent and the majority was honest. Many of you are somewhere around my age and can remember this.

Back then a man's word was stronger than a contract. Now people lie all the time.

Most politicians were somewhat corrupt but they were discreet about it. Now politicians openly lie and have zero qualms about doing so.

You used to be able to trust that when someone said they would something, it would get done. Now, not so much.

Society has deemed greed and corruption as the norm. Most people have become complacent and could care what happens as long as it doesn't affect them directly. This started in the 60's by communist sympathizers. Growing these ideas as virtues to an unsuspecting public. Unsuspecting as to what the true nature of the end result would be.


----------



## prepgirl

LOL! Well, I can see everyone wanting to ensure they had a full belly and their kids were fed, and the guy always gets the best looking girl, but what we see is to such an extreme beyond that. That's what I want to get to the heart of. What's all this extreme stuff with power, ego, money, corruption, etc. all about? In other words, I want to be able to recognize and read these people like a book....I want to know what makes them tick. That mentality needs to be eradicated if we are ever to experience full peace and freedom. That's just my humble opinion, of course.



oswegoscott said:


> I'm assuming that at least one wanted the better looking female,sleeping place, hunk of meat,etc and maybe had more testosterone which caused him to be more assertive.
> Then,maybe he wanted more and decided to get it from other groups. Of course I'm basing this on my modern views---can't know for sure.
> I would say that it's often genetics,but conditioning by others definitely has a big part along with a natural drive to be comfortable and have a full belly


----------



## AsteroidX

> LOL! Well, I can see everyone wanting to ensure they had a full belly and their kids were fed, and the guy always gets the best looking girl, but what we see is to such an extreme beyond that. That's what I want to get to the heart of. What's all this extreme stuff with power, ego, money, corruption, etc. all about? In other words, I want to be able to recognize and read these people like a book....I want to know what makes them tick. That mentality needs to be eradicated if we are ever to experience full peace and freedom. That's just my humble opinion, of course.


Some say its a race of shapechanging alien Lizard beings. Theres rumors they transformed into the Illuminati, It could be the practicing of dark rituals such as Skull and Bones and that Owl park that brings there collective thinking together....Or it could be plain old greed.


----------



## inceptor

prepgirl said:


> LOL! Well, I can see everyone wanting to ensure they had a full belly and their kids were fed, and the guy always gets the best looking girl, but what we see is to such an extreme beyond that. That's what I want to get to the heart of. What's all this extreme stuff with power, ego, money, corruption, etc. all about? In other words, I want to be able to recognize and read these people like a book....I want to know what makes them tick. That mentality needs to be eradicated if we are ever to experience full peace and freedom. That's just my humble opinion, of course.


This can be broken down into simple terms. The mentality is "What's in it for me?" The thought process is: I don't care a whit about others, how can I gain from this? What will give me more power and money than the other guy?

Even the Socialists and Commies have their elite and power/money hungry.


----------



## Bailey

inceptor said:


> The mentality is "What's in it for me?" The thought process is: I don't care a whit about others, how can I gain from this? What will give me more power and money than the other guy?
> 
> Even the Socialists and Commies have their elite and power/money hungry.


I agree with you 100%.


----------



## prepgirl

inceptor said:


> This can be broken down into simple terms. The mentality is "What's in it for me?" The thought process is: I don't care a whit about others, how can I gain from this? What will give me more power and money than the other guy?
> 
> Even the Socialists and Commies have their elite and power/money hungry.


So then it just boils down to plain old selfishness? I can see your point, for sure.

I had my own opinion on what is at the heart of it, but I really wanted to hear others' points of view. My viewpoint was that it could be based on feelings of inferiority. Otherwise, why try to gain more than the other guy unless one needs to feel that they are better in some way.


----------



## prepgirl

oswegoscott said:


> I think that's way off base. That type personality tends to keep to the sidelines--they're under achievers. The opposite is more likely the case with despots and dictator wannabes


I don't necessarily agree, but thank you for your viewpoint. So then you are saying it would be feelings of superiority?


----------



## AsteroidX

> I'm saying that a person with a superiority complex is WAY more likely to be domineering,aggressive,controlling,etc then one with an inferiority complex.
> By definition it just makes more sense


How can we fix that ?


----------



## punch

Bailey said:


> Well i promoted them by saying i have used American made tools for many years because I think they are the best, and i have tried to support them by posting a message that clearly states "Demand made in the USA".


And how many forein made tools and products do you own. You're all talk. If you shop at home depot, walmart, kmart, target, all these companies apply pressure to the supply chain to reduce costs, which in turn coerces these suppliers to out source to forein mfgs. many of which are in china. But I guess you have done all you can, talk.


----------



## prepgirl

punch said:


> And how many forein made tools and products do you own. You're all talk. If you shop at home depot, walmart, kmart, target, all these companies apply pressure to the supply chain to reduce costs, which in turn coerces these suppliers to out source to forein mfgs. many of which are in china. But I guess you have done all you can, talk.


My local Lowe's and Wal-Mart have been offering the locally made Ames brand of garden and lawn tools. Unfortunately, the local manufacturing facility is closing its doors at the end of this year, but they will still be making the handles locally. I haven't heard if they are just relocating the metal fabrication department or sending those jobs elsewhere.


----------



## prepgirl

oswegoscott said:


> I'm saying that a person with a superiority complex is WAY more likely to be domineering,aggressive,controlling,etc then one with an inferiority complex.
> By definition it just makes more sense


I was married to a man exactly like that years ago. I would say that deep down, he had feelings of inferiority, and by being abusive, aggressive, controlling, etc., it gave him back some sense of power. He wasn't a good person at all.


----------



## prepgirl

AsteroidX said:


> How can we fix that ?


See, that's exactly what I am trying to get at it. The way I look at it is this: If every time a civilization establishes itself, then goes through all it's stages, then ends because of greed, corruption, power-hungry people, and a form of obese government whose intention becomes oppressing the common working man, all we are doing is the same thing over and over again. I believe that is the definition of insanity. And if it cannot be rectified, we are simply doomed to complete the same insane cycle over and over again. This is not progress.

What comes to mind for me is the Native Americans. They were, and still are, relatively successful as a culture. What is the secret to their success? Or am I missing something? They were driven out and almost destroyed by the white man. It makes me ashamed. They had something that we are apparently incapable of achieving, yet _we _called _them _savages.


----------



## CoastalGardens

oswegoscott said:


> Yeah,a guy like that takes it out on easy targets like his wife and kids,but is often a woosy with others---no real threat to the public in general


I went through the same thing. Unfortunately that wasn't the case with his interactions with the public. He felt it was okay for him to steal- both from other people and charge up massive amounts of debt that he was 'too good' to even attempt to pay off, and never even paid child support. He never kept a job, as he flew off the handle, and eventually lived off government 'entitlements' because he felt 'entitled' to them (plus he never saw ANYTHING wrong with his actions, including having children with multiple people over the years.) I now stay light-years away from these kinds of people. Giving them freebies from the Gov just encourages this behavior.


----------



## IngaLisa

Ouch, I have Native American blood.


----------



## Sr40ken

The fix for the whole mess...................the United States Constitution and personal responsibility.


----------



## IngaLisa

I'm going with, "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you." and "In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations."


----------



## Lucky Jim

prepgirl said:


> I was married to a man exactly like that years ago. I would say that deep down, he had feelings of inferiority, and by being abusive, aggressive, controlling, etc., it gave him back some sense of power. He wasn't a good person at all.


Some parents are like that too, that exactly describes my late dad, he was an evil-minded little shit in every way and I took the full brunt of his venom and spite all through my childhood


----------



## Lucky Jim

IngaLisa said:


> ...I have Native American blood.


Good for you..










As natural-born survivors for centuries, the red man makes us poor city folk look like rank amateurs-

_"Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. 
Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. 
The sap which courses through the trees carries the memories of the red man. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. 
The perfumed flowers are our sisters; the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. 
The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and man, all belong to the same family. 
The rivers are our brothers, they quench our thirst. The rivers carry our canoes.
The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the red man. There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. 
No place to hear the unfurling of leaves in spring or the rustle of the insect's wings.
The clatter only seems to insult the ears."
- Chief Seattle of the Suquamis_

http://www.stevenredhead.com/Native/


----------



## IngaLisa

I would go with that teepee instead of a pricey yurt.


----------



## Lucky Jim

The US Govt pumps $50 billion of taxpayers money into foreign aid, so why shouldn't Native Americans get something?
After all, they're not foreigners and are (in Hamlet's words)- "Native here and to the manor born"
The Brit Govt pumps 12 billion GB pounds (18 billion US dollars) into foreign aid, so they're just as bad.


----------



## AsteroidX

Native Americans have casinos now. I dont know if that makes a difference. Never asked.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf

I think one thing that would help fix some of our current problems is the chief of police of all police departments should become an elected position. Just like Sheriffs so they would be beholding to the people and not the politicians of the City or State.


----------



## IngaLisa

The US violated a lot of treaties. The US made legal contracts with Natives and they did not honor them.

Maybe if every one got the same health care the Natives did, every one would be happy?


----------



## rickkyw1720pf

oswegoscott
Quote: Perhaps so in the Western states. Here, the contracts have been honored for over 200 years. However,that is besides the point. I am speaking of the situation NOW at the reservation near me.
Free for everyone? Like people on Medicaid and illegal immigrants have? Like Obama wants to do? Holy Mackeral! THAT kind of "free" is not for me! Who the heck do you think pays for that?
The workers and taxpayers pay for the ass-sitters. C'mon,can't you see how this is another thing draining us dry?

Every one pays You, Me and also the generations of children that are brought up to think that is the normal way of life.


----------



## Bailey

punch said:


> And how many forein made tools and products do you own. You're all talk. If you shop at home depot, walmart, kmart, target, all these companies apply pressure to the supply chain to reduce costs,


My Trowels Hammers internal and external angle tools are all foreign to me they're made in the USA and when they wear out I'll replace them with more of the same,

I'm a Brit so I don't shop at Home depot, walmart, kmart My best knives are made in the USA by Buck my best knife sharpener is a Buck.

You're right about one thing but one thing only, I have bought Chinese crapo tools in the past because I can't always afford the best but the tools don't last for five minutes so it's false economy and not doing anything to support our economy or our manufacturers so just don't do it.


----------



## Bailey

oswegoscott said:


> Mankind is essentially the same everywhere
> in almost every way.


That is so true.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Incidentally why have the American taxpayers been letting their Govt pour cash and super-duper weaponry into Israel for the past 50-odd years? What has Israel ever done for America?
Further, by allying with Israel, America is making herself a terror target as "Israel's friend", are you all happy with that? 
Bin Laden is gone, but there are still plenty of muslims around who share his views-

_"We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or *through its support of the Israeli occupation*." - Osama bin Laden - to CNN in March 1997_


----------



## punch

Lucky Jim said:


> Incidentally why have the American taxpayers been letting their Govt pour cash and super-duper weaponry into Israel for the past 50-odd years? What has Israel ever done for America?
> Further, by allying with Israel, America is making herself a terror target as "Israel's friend", are you all happy with that?
> Bin Laden is gone, but there are still plenty of muslims around who share his views-
> 
> _"We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or *through its support of the Israeli occupation*." - Osama bin Laden - to CNN in March 1997_


Supporting Israel is one of the few things this country has done right. It says in the Bible, Who ever blesses them (Israel) will be blessed and who ever curses them will be cursed. And they are not on a free weapons program. They are paying for and probably beta-testing all of our niftiest stuff. And you can bet they are paying full retail for it. They are growing vegatables in the dessert and making fresh water, I think they can scrape up a few pennies to buy a cruise missle or two. And they ain't afraid to use them. Unfortunately for us, we'll eventually turn our backs on them as well.

punch


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## punch

Bailey said:


> My Trowels Hammers internal and external angle tools are all foreign to me they're made in the USA and when they wear out I'll replace them with more of the same,
> 
> I'm a Brit so I don't shop at Home depot, walmart, kmart My best knives are made in the USA by Buck my best knife sharpener is a Buck.
> 
> You're right about one thing but one thing only, I have bought Chinese crapo tools in the past because I can't always afford the best but the tools don't last for five minutes so it's false economy and not doing anything to support our economy or our manufacturers so just don't do it.


I'm right about a heck of a lot more than the just one thing sparky. You are a british subject. You are subject to a queen. You are taxed out your hoo-haa. How's that health care system doing for ya? And britain is world famous for its dental care as we all know. I know people in canada who come to the states and pay for health care because they don't want to cue up and wait for it up there. You're even lying now as you are still buying chinese tools as we speak. I can't deny than their(the chinese) manufacturing capabilities has just about caught up with ours. Would I buy a dial caliper or micrometer from china? Heck no. But for masonry tools sure, why not? One of my pet peeves is chinese nails that bend after one strike. and crappy screws that are softer than the tool turning them. So I am picky about where my tools are made regardless of the brand.
So once I find a brand that works, I stick with it and I alway check labels. I used to buy snapons and craftmans tools exclusively until Sears started getting pissy when I returned a broken craftman tool. They would try to replace it with a smaller style or refuse to replace it at all, so I started buying from home depot, but their tool warranty is pure shit, so I am back to buying from Sears again and they have seemed to be getting their act together toolwise. When I travel, I see old U.S. made hand pumps still being used to pump drinking water, old U.S. detroit diesels and machine shop tools still being used. Those poor people think everything made in the U.S. is the best, because in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and a good bit of the 80's we were the best, but a lot has changed. So you're a brit and don't shop at the stores I mentioned right, Well I bet the brit stores you shop at don't carry only made in UK stuff, they are chuck full of chinese garments , chinese food and chinese fishing weights. You're just to proud and arrogant to consider your acts of buying a few U.S. made tools is prolly not your best effort. It was just the easiest.

punch (tradesman, among other things)

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free! -Lee Greenwood


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## Sr40ken

Lucky Jim said:


> Incidentally why have the American taxpayers been letting their Govt pour cash and super-duper weaponry into Israel for the past 50-odd years? What has Israel ever done for America?
> QUOTE]
> Ahhh kept the Arabs in check, tested our weapons platforms for us and covered our back in the region. I would rather our support in money and arms go to Israel than any other country on earth.jmho I would say Israel and Japan are probably our most trrust worthy
> allies in the world.(flame suit on).


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## punch

Sr40ken said:


> Lucky Jim said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incidentally why have the American taxpayers been letting their Govt pour cash and super-duper weaponry into Israel for the past 50-odd years? What has Israel ever done for America?
> QUOTE]
> Ahhh kept the Arabs in check, tested our weapons platforms for us and covered our back in the region. I would rather our support in money and arms go to Israel than any other country on earth.jmho I would say Israel and Japan are probably our most trrust worthy
> allies in the world.(flame suit on).
> 
> 
> 
> In truth, our oil interest has us mired in that part of the world forever. And for the very reasons you stated we need a close ally and at the very least, a place to refuel/rearm our fighters and bombers. We have to constantly reign in Israel because they want to kick some more ass but we don't want them to further enflame the region. It aint disney land down there but they aren't negotiating from a position of weakness they'll pull the trigger when we won't.
> 
> punch
Click to expand...


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## Lucky Jim

punch said:


> Supporting Israel is one of the few things this country has done right. It says in the Bible, Who ever blesses them (Israel) will be blessed and who ever curses them will be cursed..


The problem I have with the "Chosen People" thing is that Jesus said "Whoever rejects me rejects God", and the Jews not only rejected him but they killed him!
But leaving religious debate aside, you say it's right for America to support Israel.
Will you still think that when the muslim world gets nuke weapons and clobbers America hard for being Israel's friend?
Shouldn't preppers be saying "ditch Israel so that America doesn't get nuked"?


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## Bailey

punch said:


> punch (tradesman, among other things)
> 
> Lee Greenwood


you said it Bro lol


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## Bailey

punch said:


> You are a british subject. You are subject to a queen. You are taxed out your hoo-haa. How's that health care system doing for ya? And britain is world famous for its dental care as we all know.
> I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free! -Lee Greenwood


The health service here is far from good but it's better than some countries and better than nothing, Our world famous Dental service you're joking right ?

Do you really think you're Free ?


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## Sr40ken

Bailey said:


> Do you really think you're Free ?


Yep, as free as in the past? Nope. We have more freedom here than most. But we have returned to one of the reasons we broke away from the UK, "taxation without representation". Our growing limitation of our freedoms are the parasites of our social/government system, the perversion of the American dream, much like the socialist direction things like the "euro" are causing.


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## AsteroidX

Were losing the Freedoms we still have is how I read that.


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## Lucky Jim

punch said:


> ..Well I bet the brit stores you shop at don't carry only made in UK stuff, they are chuck full of chinese garments , chinese food and chinese fishing weights"


I support the Brit far-right parties that want to call a halt to many foreign imports. But, like America, Britain is run by political fools at the moment so it ain't gonna happen.
Some years ago there was a national "I'm Buying British" campaign which encouraged Brits to look at labels and avoid buying any foreign stuff.
All British items carried a union jack sticker so it was easy to see where stuff was made.
We need something like that nowadays but the politically-correct lefty maggots would scream "racist" and soon get it stopped.


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## Sr40ken

AsteroidX said:


> Were losing the Freedoms we still have is how I read that.


Sort of, the restriction of , the limiting, "they" are chipping away at them, "they" know better than the people.


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## AsteroidX

> Sort of, the restriction of , the limiting, "they" are chipping away at them, "they" know better than the people.


The term pick your battles applies. One of there agenda startegies atm is to overwhelm us with asinine legislation to add confusion for the sheeple.


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## Bailey

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.


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## Sr40ken

Bailey said:


> "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.


So, I take it that you, a limey, think I'm not free and you use the words of some socialist, atheist kraut? So what do you know about American liberty? Do tell.


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## Bailey

Sr40ken said:


> So, I take it that you, a limey, think I'm not free and you use the words of some socialist, atheist kraut? So what do you know about American liberty? Do tell.


I don't think any of us are really free we just live with the false illusion, We have a vote do you think our vote makes one bit of difference to the way Governments rule us ?

"so what do you know about American liberty" I know that some of your ancestors fought against some of mine and yours won your independence.


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## Bailey

I quoted him because he was right his politics or his creed has nothing to do with it.


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## punch

I normally don't have an issue with you Jim but you are twisting up the Bible. You can bet those who killed Jesus are surely dead so unless they repented, turned away from their sin and chose to be a follower of Christ an actual Christian, they could very well be in Heaven. As for religion, Religion is an invention of man, Its the easiest, lamest, sorry exuse, silly rituals like crossing your self, or pointing your butt towards mecca or wearing crosses, ahnks, crystals, mood rings, pyramids bullsh*t. In short, its man's greatest attempt to reach out to God. God did not only attempt to reach man, but he came down from heaven, he sent his son Jesus down here on earth and he lived, and ate and drank with us sinners. He led by example. And he loved mankind so much, He died for us. Boy is God getting shortchanged. I believe the Bible is the true word of God. Everything written in it will happen. There is a heaven and there is a hell. You will end up in either one place or the other. Read the descriptions of hell. Among them weeping and crying and gnashing of teeth. Not for three days, not for an hour, for an eternity. Now you can say, You're a good guy and you don't believe that a loving God would send a good guy like you to hell right? Well it really doesn't matter what you believe. On judgement day people will say remember all the good stuff I did Jesus? (I'm paraphrasing) And He will say, "Jim, you never knew me." Better stick to surfing the net and posting your little pics. You just lost credibility points with me limey. Want to really understand a scripture? Read what comes before it, and keep reading what comes after it. But don't twist the word of God because you hate the Jews.

punch gump (and thats all I have to say about that)


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## SAZUGT

The biggest problem that needs to be fixed is education of our children. Now it's easy to point the finger at gov schools but we are all free to opt out. My wife and I have opted to homeschool our 5 kids after some long prayers and self reflection. The choice wasn't easy but it is turning out to be the best single choice we've made for our family in a while. I know it's not feasible for everyone and for those of you who can't HS at the very least, like others have said, take an interest in what your kids are learning. Ask them, correct opinions that may have been injected as facts to our children by educators, or even take your saturdays and sundays to train you kids in both book learning and practical skills. Our kids are our biggest asset. No one cares more than you do about raising your kids right. If we don't raise our kids to be blind dependents of the government we can each play a role in shaping the future...


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## inceptor

To expand on what punch said, I know you don't like Israel but God said early on that the Jews were his chosen people. He also said he would bless those that bless them. I don't remember anywhere in the Bible where God said, "well, never mind what I said earlier."


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## punch

Bailey said:


> The health service here is far from good but it's better than some countries and better than nothing, Our world famous Dental service you're joking right ?
> 
> Do you really think you're Free ?


Yup!

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phil. 4:13


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## inceptor

Bailey said:


> I don't think any of us are really free we just live with the false illusion, We have a vote do you think our vote makes one bit of difference to the way Governments rule us ?
> 
> "so what do you know about American liberty" I know that some of your ancestors fought against some of mine and yours won your independence.


I have some news for you bud. I get right nasty when my rights get stepped on. Yes, I live with the "false illusion" that I am free. I do as I choose, which is to do what's right. I have very old fashioned values and stick to them. I believe in Biblical values, which is what our Constitution was based on. I live by those principals and expect others to do the same. I don't need to show my papers (yet) to travel where I please. I am free to work for myself or others. I am charitable when I choose and to who I choose. I am a gun owner and have been for over 40 yrs. I go to the range without asking permission when I choose to, go to dinner where and when I want. I treat people with respect and demand the same. I say what I feel without being disrespectful (ok, mostly anyhow). I am free to have my own opinions and not bashful about discussing them. When I decide to keep my opinion to myself, it's out of respect for others and their opinions. I have the choice to debate or not depending on the situation. We do have more freedom here than others across the pond. I may have to fight to keep that freedom but many good people did that in the beginning here and I am no better than them. I am not a one man army and may be put down early but I won't go easily. I won't be led down the path of their choosing like a sheep. I can tell you, I am no Billy Badass but my wife can tell you, I can be stubborn. I hate it when others tell me I can't do this or that, I have to do this or that simply because some moron said it, right or wrong. If it's right and good, then I'm ok but otherwise, we got a problem.


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## punch

Hey I know I'm not posting the silly outrageous drivel many are used to seeing by ole punch.
But I will not deny my savior Jesus. I know many think that I am not acting like a meek unassuming Christian that says really agreeable stuff like.: God's nice, you're nice, so be nice. I don't feel like I'm supposed to be timid about my relationship with my savior Jesus. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Let your yes mean yes and let your no mean no. Still confused, start with the "Ten Commandments" and yes I've not just dinged more than a couple of them, I stinking broke them. My favorite book of the Bible is the Book of John because he is referred to as, "the one who Jesus loved". After reading the book of John in my first FCA Bible I just wanted to know more about Jesus. Read the story of the prodigal son cause that son is me in a nutshell. Maybe its you too. I don't expect anyone to act and be like me. I know what I believe. Just make sure you really know what you believe in because your life actually depends on it. Ask yourself this, "If I died today, right now today, would I go to heaven or hell"? You don't have to answer to me. Just be honest with yourself. I got my hands full living my life and I ain't no prize either. Just another sinner saved by God's grace. 

punch


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## punch

inceptor said:


> I have some news for you bud. I get right nasty when my rights get stepped on. Yes, I live with the "false illusion" that I am free. I do as I choose, which is to do what's right. I have very old fashioned values and stick to them. I believe in Biblical values, which is what our Constitution was based on. I live by those principals and expect others to do the same. I don't need to show my papers (yet) to travel where I please. I am free to work for myself or others. I am charitable when I choose and to who I choose. I am a gun owner and have been for over 40 yrs. I go to the range without asking permission when I choose to, go to dinner where and when I want. I treat people with respect and demand the same. I say what I feel without being disrespectful (ok, mostly anyhow). I am free to have my own opinions and not bashful about discussing them. When I decide to keep my opinion to myself, it's out of respect for others and their opinions. I have the choice to debate or not depending on the situation. We do have more freedom here than others across the pond. I may have to fight to keep that freedom but many good people did that in the beginning here and I am no better than them. I am not a one man army and may be put down early but I won't go easily. I won't be led down the path of their choosing like a sheep. I can tell you, I am no Billy Badass but my wife can tell you, I can be stubborn. I hate it when others tell me I can't do this or that, I have to do this or that simply because some moron said it, right or wrong. If it's right and good, then I'm ok but otherwise, we got a problem.


That really sums up freedom in my book. I am not forcing my beleifs on anyone. I can voice my dissappointment with my president's lack of leadership ability. We had an election where an idiot won a second term and no one died. Still I am not serving and financing a queen and royal family. I'm here in Texas and thats free enough for me...

punch


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## inceptor

punch said:


> That really sums up freedom in my book. I am not forcing my beleifs on anyone. I can voice my dissappointment with my president's lack of leadership ability. We had an election where an idiot won a second term and no one died. Still I am not serving and financing a queen and royal family. I'm here in Texas and thats free enough for me...
> 
> punch


Well said.

And I too love being in Texas. Now if we could just convince the Kalifornians to go home. :grin:


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## 9UC

punch said:


> .....As for religion, Religion is an invention of man,


Religion can be just about anything, I'm not religious, I'm a Christian!


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## punch

inceptor said:


> To expand on what punch said, I know you don't like Israel but God said early on that the Jews were his chosen people. He also said he would bless those that bless them. I don't remember anywhere in the Bible where God said, "well, never mind what I said earlier."


Yup, Just like a loving father. God diciplined his children but he never stopped loving them. In the desert God answered all their prayers, for food, for water, for a place to live. And and still they complained. Much like people today. I'm guilty of complaining as well.

punch


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## punch

oswegoscott said:


> Your knowledge is a little faulty. The "Indians" migrated here,too. They also attacked other tribes--killing and enslaving them--stealing women,livestock and food---driving others off hunting grounds.
> They exterminated the native horse,mastodon---drove whole herds of bison over cliffs and took a few hides and some meat--the rest rotted away. Mankind is essentially the same everywhere
> in almost every way. I live within 20 miles of a reservation. Their culture here consists of drugs,drink and filthy homes and yards (not all,but most). And please do NOT tell me it is our fault!
> They CHOOSE to live like that while exempt from most taxes and many of our laws. AND their medical is FREE!!!!They have thousands of acres of good land and running water,but
> use hardly any for crops or cattle. Most prefer welfare and foodstamps
> 
> Oh--another rez went from dirt poor to wealthy from a casino and selling untaxed cigarettes. They decided to prey on the weaknesses of man. Real noble,huh? HAHAHA


I normally have O. Swegoscott on ignore. But allow me to preface his post by acknowledging that he is a racist. No I'm not throwing stones, I speak from my personal experience with the tard. And now back on ignore you go. How you are up to 627 post since the beginning of the month baffles even me. You've literally tripled your posts in a weeks times. Well I guess it nice to have a hobby or a goal. Don't you have hogs to cath?


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## Bailey

inceptor said:


> I have some news for you bud. I get right nasty when my rights get stepped on. Yes, I live with the "false illusion" that I am free. I do as I choose, which is to do what's right. I have very old fashioned values and stick to them. I believe in Biblical values, which is what our Constitution was based on. I live by those principals and expect others to do the same.


Thanks for the insight it's good to hear others views and good to know that what i have grown up believing in is still true. Everything you wrote is what i'd hoped an American would say.


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## Bailey

oswegoscott said:


> --no matter the color of the adherent. Now,if I ONLY bitched about one race you could say I ACTED out of rascism. But,I don't. Many whites are pieces of shit.


*There you go he can't be fairer than that, he's clearly Bitching about how some people act not what colour their skin is or what race they are.*It's the same here Oswegoscott If you complain about how many immigrants are flooding into the country you get blasted as being racist when in reality I don't care where they come from or what colour they are I just don't think it's a good idea to let so many people here when people who are born here can't get work. 
While ever you talking sense keep your posts rolling in.


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## punch

IngaLisa said:


> Ouch, I have Native American blood.


Not that IngaLisa needs me to defend her, clearly she was offended as was I because I too am part Native American. But all in all this forum has many members who are here to help and share their experiences and expertise.

A for you O. I did not disparage any member who raises livestock. You asked in a previous thread if you should be saving your hog piss, I simply asked you, "Don't you have hogs to cath?" You yourself even suggested that you combine the liquid with vinegar to make cocktails.

punch


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## punch

oswegoscott said:


> And we have a wannabe king and his flunkies. You're free enough with all the supression of our liberties??!! Then roll over and go back to sleep. NO sense even being on this site. G'nite Irene


Wow! I want to call you a douche bag, but what does one call something that chuck full of hog piss and vinegar? I mean I'd to offer to kick the sh*t out of you, but after I was finished there would only be boots left.

punch (now for the record, I said I want to call tard a douche-bag. I did not actually call him a douche-bag. And I said I'd offer to kick, never said that I kicked. Whew, this litigious world in which we live. But I covered my butt on that one.) "giggle" I said butt... 
And now back on ignore you go zippy!


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