# Operation JADE HELM



## Murphy (Oct 9, 2014)

Chuck Baldwin -- Operation Jade Helm: Should We Be Worried?

For two months this summer, the U.S. Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) will conduct Realistic Military Training (RMT) Operation Jade Helm 15 (JH 15) in seven Southwestern U.S. states: California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. Military spokesmen say the operation is merely a standard training exercise designed to prepare Special Forces troops for warfare overseas.









In this exercise, Special Forces troops will practice all sorts of activities including extractions, searches and seizures, urban camouflage, etc. According to the Houston Chronicle, "[A]mong the planned exercises, soldiers will attempt to operate undetected among civilian populations.

cough..cough.Trial run for Martial Law?


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Nope.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I read somewhere that they will be live streaming some of it from overhead drones.
If they are open about what they are doing, I have less worry about it.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Mil-i-tarry buys our stuff, buys our stuff
Military buys our stuff and may camp in our bar...uh yard


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm a bit concerned that if they are not hiding what they are doing and visible to some they are doing a classic " Hey look over here at what I'm
doing". While all of our eyes and media may be focused on that they could very well be doing things elsewhere that will make us all cringe but go un-noticed
due to us looking at what they told us to look at. Something just doesn't seem right to me! Why do they even need to do this? Don't we have fake towns setup
on some military training areas? There is one on a base about 50 miles from me and the ask for civilian volunteers to come in and play the roll of a townsfolk or
badguy when they have their exercises. Why all the sudden do they have to step out in the real world?


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## CourtSwagger (Jan 3, 2013)

Might be something to worry about if Texas wasn't involved. Pretty sure the Texans can keep the shenanigans to a minimum.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Let's fret for a second ISIS manages to get a 20 person unit into the United States to operate as a team. Ther are no police forces active on the street capable of defeating a 20 person organized military unit. Most city / county response units woukd even have a hard time. I would suspect in direct conflict our military would be called in to defend our nation on US soil. Why wouldn't we want them trained for that?


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Let's consider that a certain vile Kenyan scud has been touring down there, promising free travel and living with all full entitlements to Nicaraguan and other undesirable.
I mostly expect mass invasion with military holding people helpless while pestilence run over us by millions killing and stealing all they want on their way up to inor's.
But if it is about the potential for bad things and them sticking up for us and killing invaders I wouldn't want to say. It is better to doubt them than speculate anything that could possibly compromise them to beasts.
I would look out for them and stuff but then i would be most scarred of all if it turn out they are muslums


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I see UH60's, CH47s and AH64s every day around here. I have absolute faith that our military would not turn on the American taxpayer. I think the worst case scenario and a true heart breaker for our soldiers would be having to quarantine citizens to contain an outbreak. My boy that is in the army said that his unit overwhelmingly agrees that Obama is a bigger threat to freedom than we are.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I am told this is fairly routine. Something to watch tho.


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## fred (Apr 11, 2015)

Spam removed


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

fred said:


> A full and complete factual analysis prepared by ***** is available at:
> http*********[/url




Well that load of BS didn't help.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

what's the climate like in those states? what's the climate like overseas I see the correlation - why would they need to blend in well that's why they call them SPECIAL forces maybe. When your azz in on the line you want to get as much dry running in as possible to work out as many lumps as possible so you have an idea what work and what doesn't. my 2 cents


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

the only thing that raises my thoughts is the name JADE usually refers to far east Asia as in china or something maybe its nothing. I would be interested in which SF groups may be running this op although they all can operate anywhere any place, each group does have a specific geographic area they specialize in. but this is all speculation


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Pay attention folks.
There may be more than meets the eye!


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Nothing is happening or gonna happen....quit worrying. Nothing to see here folks.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

tango said:


> Pay attention folks.
> There may be more than meets the eye!


Transformers are part of this too!


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Just think if this is what they are telling us think of what they are hiding.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

SHTFplan.com has an interesting article.

Shock Report: Feds Seek Role Players For Simulating Forced Detention & Relocation of Americans

Shock Report: Feds Seek Role Players For Simulating Forced Detention & Relocation of Americans


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Not to worry, it is for your safety.
Where have we heard that??


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

MaterielGeneral said:


> SHTFplan.com has an interesting article.
> 
> Shock Report: Feds Seek Role Players For Simulating Forced Detention & Relocation of Americans
> 
> Shock Report: Feds Seek Role Players For Simulating Forced Detention & Relocation of Americans


I didn't get that email today.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Smokin04 said:


> Nothing is happening or gonna happen....quit worrying. Nothing to see here folks.


Who are you and why should I listen to you?


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I have absolute faith that our military would not turn on the American taxpayer.


You have far more faith than I do. History tells us that soldiers simply obey orders. That's what they are programmed to do.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Thats what everybody does orders or laws people generally wont go against them.


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## peaches (Mar 24, 2014)

How does this supposedly correlate with Wal-Mart stores closing for 6 months?


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> the only thing that raises my thoughts is the name JADE usually refers to far east Asia as in china or something maybe its nothing. I would be interested in which SF groups may be running this op although they all can operate anywhere any place, each group does have a specific geographic area they specialize in. but this is all speculation


Jade is also green. And a helm could be translated as house. Which would make it "green house". Omg! They're gonna attack us with greenhouse gas! The global warming folks were just try to warn us! Whoa...I gotta remember to take my tinfoil hat off occasionally. This thing is tight and restricting blood to my brain.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I have absolute faith that our military would not turn on the American taxpayer.


I agree.

The really, really interesting thing, though, is I have ZERO faith that their political leaders won't ever turn on us and order our military to violate their oaths. Our military will defend the constitution, I have ZERO question about that. Will they just refuse, or will they mutiny against people who have become domestic enemies of the constitution.

THAT is the question, IMHO.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I agree.
> 
> The really, really interesting thing, though, is I have ZERO faith that their political leaders won't ever turn on us and order our military to violate their oaths. Our military will defend the constitution, I have ZERO question about that. Will they just refuse, or will they mutiny against people who have become domestic enemies of the constitution.
> 
> THAT is the question, IMHO.


I'm curious what your faith is based in. All the available evidence (historical and otherwise) suggests that armies and police almost never disobey orders en-masse...even when their orders are very clearly immoral, unethical, or even criminal. There just isn't much of a historical precedent for such a thing.

What has you so convinced that our soldiers and law enforcement personnel will behave any differently than their contemporaries in every other part of the world has since the dawn of human history?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Charles Martel said:


> I'm curious what your faith is based in. All the available evidence (historical and otherwise) suggests that armies and police almost never disobey orders en-masse...even when their orders are very clearly immoral, unethical, or even criminal. There just isn't much of a historical precedent for such a thing.
> 
> What has you so convinced that our soldiers and law enforcement personnel will behave any differently than their contemporaries in every other part of the world has since the dawn of human history?


Oathkeepers are in a lot of the leadership positions. It's a strong movement. I have a lot of friends in the military, men I know to be of good character, and THEY tell me that the troops will not turn on the citizens. Guys with Bronze Stars (multiple) are saying that, guys with 3 & 4 trips to the sandbox. I think they know one hell of a lot more about the military and what the troops are thinking that I do, so I am trusting what they are telling me.

I had a similar conversation with two of them when they were home for Christmas.

Please note, I didn't mention law enforcement, you did. I make no comment on law enforcement, whatever. Read that however you like.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Some military will obey orders (whatever they are), some will obey the Constitution!


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Charles Martel said:


> You have far more faith than I do. History tells us that soldiers simply obey orders. That's what they are programmed to do.


Says the dude who has never served, nor been law enforcement. I've been BOTH.

Don't take this the wrong way Chuck...but you haven't a clue what this shit you're talking about.


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

tango said:


> Not to worry, it is for your safety.
> Where have we heard that??


Every bad guy or bad government in the history of ever.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Smokin04 said:


> Says the dude who has never served, nor been law enforcement. I've been BOTH.
> 
> Don't take this the wrong way Chuck...but you haven't a clue what this shit you're talking about.


So what about the guy that has and worries about the troopers who live paycheck to paycheck. I might be able to choose not to obey in such a situation but very few of my coworkers could. No ones is gonna choose upholding their oaths over feeding their kids. Honestly the military is so much about careerism these days I have my doubts if any even 10% would follow their oaths to the Constitution.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

ApexPredator said:


> So what about the guy that has and worries about the troopers who live paycheck to paycheck. I might be able to choose not to obey in such a situation but very few of my coworkers could. No ones is gonna choose upholding their oaths over feeding their kids. Honestly the military is so much about careerism these days I have my doubts if any even 10% would follow their oaths to the Constitution.


Which if 10% was a realistic possibility, I could see the concern. I'll tell you what...next time you see a military member, why don't you ask THEM. I have. And I have YET to hear a fellow military member say they wouldn't fall on the constitution side. There is a reason we don't have to obey unlawful orders...BECAUSE THEY'RE UNLAWFUL. Geez, so many internet opinions...NONE BASED ON FACT! You and Martel believe in yourself WAY too much, and to assume you know how the ENTIRE military feels about an issue is just plain arrogant.

Anf BTW, I STILL live paycheck to paycheck.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Dude I dont know where your from or what you do. I have been in 3 units 2 infantry and 1 SF and I stand by the 10% number. What you think I didn't enlist for patriotic reasons that was #8 on the list when I joined even in the middle of a war the primary factor for enlistment was college followed by JOB SECURITY. If only I had been that smart then. I think you are the overly optimistic one not sure what role you play in intel but your crowd might have a little higher ideals but there not gonna be the ones carrying out the nitty gritty orders. 
Dunning?Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I just love this article


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Says the dude who has never served, nor been law enforcement. I've been BOTH.
> 
> Don't take this the wrong way Chuck...but you haven't a clue what this shit you're talking about.


One doesn't have to serve in the military or become a law enforcement officer in order to know that every major genocide of the 20th century was carried out by soldiers and police who were simply obeying orders. I think it's a little optimistic to expect the majority of American soldiers and cops to behave any differently than their contemporaries throughout history have behaved when given unethical or even genocidal orders. History says that the majority of cops and soldiers will simply fall in line and do what they're told.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

ApexPredator said:


> Dude I dont know where your from or what you do. I have been in 3 units 2 infantry and 1 SF and I stand by the 10% number. What you think I didn't enlist for patriotic reasons that was #8 on the list when I joined even in the middle of a war the primary factor for enlistment was college followed by JOB SECURITY. If only I had been that smart then. I think you are the overly optimistic one not sure what role you play in intel but your crowd might have a little higher ideals but there not gonna be the ones carrying out the nitty gritty orders.
> Dunning?Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I just love this article.


Dude, really? The first paragraph says:
The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than is accurate. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their ineptitude. Conversely, highly skilled individuals tend to underestimate their relative competence, erroneously assuming that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.

In plain english that says stupid people will follow smart people.

Army and Marines...maybe. (Without trying to offend anyone from the corps or army) *Some* of them can be pretty much mindless "Yes men..." but having current Army infantry (and Airborne) in the family and posing them the same question, the answer is always a resounding, "NO! I would NEVER disarm people even if ordered to." Unfortunately education level mostly plays a role in whether or not Army or Marines follow orders. They rely on word of mouth education rather than searching regulations for themselves. Air Force and Navy, not so much. All I can say with 100% certainty is that in 17 years of active duty service (and with this conversation coming up quite frequently since and during the Obama administration) I have NEVER MET a military member (of any branch) that would follow unlawful orders. To disarm the public is an UNLAWFUL ORDER period. One that NO MILITARY MEMBER would ever be expected to follow.



Charles Martel said:


> One doesn't have to serve in the military or become a law enforcement officer in order to know that every major genocide of the 20th century was carried out by soldiers and police who were simply obeying orders. I think it's a little optimistic to expect the majority of American soldiers and cops to behave any differently than their contemporaries throughout history have behaved when given unethical or even genocidal orders. History says that the majority of cops and soldiers will simply fall in line and do what they're told.


Date check there Chuck....we're in the 21st century. A lot changes in 100 years. I think it's a little pessimistic to think that "the majority of American soldiers and cops" are mindless followers that do what they're told. I submit again that it is HIGHLY LIKELY that you know very few police officers and even fewer military from which to form your conclusions. You're approaching this subject with a bias based on ignorance...pure and simple. You preach historical events as "likely to occur again" which I couldn't disagree more with. Do we not learn from our mistakes? Do we not adapt and change laws or policies when new events occur? Of course we do...but all of this I'M SURE is falling on deaf and biased ears. You of anyone on this site are a hopeless "authoritarian hater"...dare I say liberal? Neither of which do I have time for. When you actually meet a military member (or cop) that is not family...ask them this very same question. Then post it for the world to see...then remember that there are another 2-3 million or so military and police remaining that would constitute a "majority."


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

it is unlawful for a USA solider to lock and load on a USA citizen on USA soil- it is a fact and has been proven in several national disasters were Active duty had to go unarmed and remained in a support/clean up mod of operation , Now the National guard can and they did show up armed and acted in a police like manner. The answer is trust no one in this situation a solider with feel obligated to follow an order it is the way they are trained , under the stress of combat sometimes that's all you have to hold on to keep yourself sane and have less than a second to contemplate what your doing -that basic motor response when someone says shoot is just that, done without thinking.
Now some I have seen would play the small pecker card and disarm civilians because it makes them feel more important look at the news , look at all the messed up things people are doing. Do I think the military would do and act on something like this? I say about 50/50 why? cause the solders I seen before I retired were more like a pack of kindergarteners than the troops I began with. When I gave an order they did it. now I used to get Why? You want to see an officer loose his freaking mind on you ask them why when they give in order under the stress of combat. The fact is all this is speculation and no one really knows how those cards are going to play out and everyone hopes they never do.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Smokin think you missed the point of the article. Either A your overestimating your abilities when you said I believe in myself to much or B you are overestimating the values you assign to other people. Maybe you do have a righteous family but there are far more sinners than saints in the world.

Believe what you will but so long as self interests are the primary reason for enlistment, I don't feel hope for your outcome.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

ApexPredator said:


> Smokin think you missed the point of the article. Either A your overestimating your abilities when you said I believe in myself to much or B you are overestimating the values you assign to other people. Maybe you do have a righteous family but there are far more sinners than saints in the world.
> 
> Believe what you will but so long as self interests are the primary reason for enlistment, I don't feel hope for your outcome.


Cool, just agree to disagree and leave it at that. But in something like this...I'd be happy to say I told ya so if it ever happens, which it wont.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

ApexPredator said:


> Smokin think you missed the point of the article. Either A your overestimating your abilities when you said I believe in myself to much or B you are overestimating the values you assign to other people. Maybe you do have a righteous family but there are far more sinners than saints in the world.
> 
> Believe what you will but so long as self interests are the primary reason for enlistment, I don't feel hope for your outcome.


And that last sentence is the basis for the term "Mercenary"


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> And that last sentence is the basis for the term "Mercenary"


Hopeless. Now I remember why I took a few months off from this site.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I do not see martial law except in cities after a collapse...

Add all the military, police, law enforcement fed, state, county, city, etc... divide that number by the number of (43,965 ) cities, towns, townships, villages, & unincorporated areas...

now remember you have to have support personnel to feed and bandage the front line folks..

martial law will be rough.. they could take over cities or road ways


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Date check there Chuck....we're in the 21st century. A lot changes in 100 years.


It doesn't matter what century we're in. Human nature didn't magically change with the dawning of the new century. Study after study (for the love of god, do your homework before posting&#8230;look up the Stanley Milgram experiment) has shown that perfectly ordinary people can be compelled to do incredibly cruel things to one another if told to do so by what they perceive to be an authority figure. This is perhaps the single most troubling component of human psychology. It has been exploited by tyrants and despots since the beginning of human history.

Police and soldiers are not immune to this shortcoming in human nature. In fact, due their programmed obedience and conformity to a strict hierarchy, cops and soldiers are more prone to compartmentalized cruelty towards their fellow human beings than the rest of the human population is.



Smokin04 said:


> I think it's a little pessimistic to think that "the majority of American soldiers and cops" are mindless followers that do what they're told.


Based on what? What singular event in human history gives you any faith whatsoever that American cops and soldiers will act any differently than their counterparts overseas have acted when given unethical orders?

For crying out loud...we already know that American cops are perfectly willing to kick in doors, confiscate firearms, and assault little old ladies for the crime of not wanting to give up their guns (all of this happened during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina) when ordered to do so.



Smokin04 said:


> I submit again that it is HIGHLY LIKELY that you know very few police officers and even fewer military from which to form your conclusions.


Your submission is totally baseless. It is both incredibly uninformed and highly inaccurate. I come from a very long line of distinguished military servicemen. My father was an officer in the Air Force, as were two of his brothers. My paternal grandfather was a WWI infantryman who survived some of the most harrowing combat in the history of warfare. My maternal grandfather was a combat engineer (a Seabee) who was wounded during the Pacific island hopping campaign of WWII. My great uncle was a naval officer and aviator who later became an Astronaut and a US Senator (His name is Jake Garn, perhaps you've heard of him).

I have cousins, nephews, brothers-in-law, and close friends who have served (and continue to serve) in the various branches of the US military (including graduation form the service academies). I have known far more than my share of distinguished military men and women in my life, and it is precisely due to my interactions and relationships with these people that I have come to view the military in the light that I do.

My father and my uncles were extraordinarily smart, brave, and moral individuals. This didn't stop them from dropping bombs on civilian targets (major cities, towns, villages, etc.) during WWII, The Korean War, and the Vietnam war. Thousands of non-combatants likely died as a result of their simply "obeying orders".

I believe many current US servicemen are moral, upstanding individuals in their personal lives, but, this doesn't mean that they won't follow unethical orders when their commanding officer gives them. It's basic human nature. This quirk of human nature is one of the many reasons that most of the founders were strongly opposed to the establishment of a standing military. History has demonstrated time and again that "moral" men can be compelled by their superioirs to do monstrous things.



Smokin04 said:


> You're approaching this subject with a bias based on ignorance...pure and simple.


It is very clearly you that have demonstrated profound ignorance and bias throughout this discussion. You very obviously have no understanding of human nature. You also fail to understand that my position is far more objective (unbiased) than your own. You admit that you have been both a soldier and a law enforcement officer. You have far more bias with regards to this particular subject than I do.



Smokin04 said:


> You preach historical events as "likely to occur again" which I couldn't disagree more with.


Again, what is your disagreement based on?

History has proven to be highly cyclical. Humanity does the same things over, and over, and over again. History always repeats itself...only the names, places, and specifics change.



Smokin04 said:


> Do we not learn from our mistakes?


No. We very clearly don't. Humanity has a very short memory...usually no more than three generations. America is speeding down the same path that has led to the fall of all great societies.



Smokin04 said:


> Of course we do...but all of this I'M SURE is falling on deaf and biased ears. You of anyone on this site are a hopeless "authoritarian hater"...dare I say liberal?


What the hell is an "authoritarian hater"?

Of course I hate authoritarians. Every red-blooded, freedom loving American SHOULD hate authoritarians. You're making absolutely no sense whatsoever.

That you seem unable to discern between a libertarian and a "liberal" position tells me all I need to know regarding your background and your cognitive abilities.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Smokin04 said:


> Hopeless. Now I remember why I took a few months off from this site.


Don't know what you're Smokin" Joe, but here is what WikiPedia says

Mercenary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read it. Let it sink in. This is what it is. Don't like it.too bad. It is what it is.

Webster will have the same definition.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Yup...both of your are hopeless.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I suspect Thanksgiving is going to roll around and nobody will even remember the term, "Jade Helm."


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

Denton said:


> I suspect Thanksgiving is going to roll around and nobody will even remember the term, "Jade Helm."


Almost certainly.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Most won't pay much attention when it happens.
They sue as hell won't remember it for long.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Smokin04 I sincerely hope what your saying is true but I dont feel it look at even the "great" generals of our time paperwork heros and nothing more, I think its petraeus that got a BSMV for valorously commanding a battalion I mean wtf does that even mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus(citation included). My previous CSM finally got a CIB for an indirect fire round that landed on the other side of the camp, the current one is worse. These men do not make me think they stand for the Ideals of America and if they don't the men under them certainly will not or will do so independently.

Again Smokin I joined not because I didnt have options 2x academic scholarships and a partial for football, but because I wanted to fight for my country I still do but every year shows how more people are interested in nothing but themselves and so long as we continue to offer incentives like free college and job security we wont have the patriotic force we need. Just how I see it and I hope I am wrong.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> I suspect Thanksgiving is going to roll around and nobody will even remember the term, "Jade Helm."


I am going to repost this in novemeber.... lol


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