# I can't tell who the bad guys are



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Normally, I refrain from starting threads about our heroic men in blue, but this article left me speechless, so I decided I had to share it with all of you:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...brawl-unconstitutional-suit-article-1.2212583

I'll be curious to see what sort of reactions you have to this one.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

This is a good one on the police, it says maybe we shouldn't call the police over every little thing.
Are Police Officers Sent to Too Many Places? - The Atlantic


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The rookies were drunk and their actions were unbecoming of the uniform. So they were fired. That's good.
The Port Authority examined their phones without a warrant. That's bad.

Case closed.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I can overlook all the other antics, but flashing their badges when told to settle down is unacceptable.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> Normally, I refrain from starting threads about our heroic men in blue, but this article left me speechless, so I decided I had to share it with all of you:
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...brawl-unconstitutional-suit-article-1.2212583
> 
> I'll be curious to see what sort of reactions you have to this one.


Cops aren't above the law. Also they are/should be held to a higher standard of conduct than the average joe smuck that drives a hack.

Badging folks to show folks that you're above or exempt from the law is a firing offense regardless of where officers stand in rank - probationary up to the chief.

That said their rights are the same as yours and I would bet that the law suit is heavily skewed. My guess what was said was something along the lines don't let us see your phones and you sure as crapola gonna get canned. Show us the phones and if you haven't done anything - except rat out your classmates - then you stand a chance - a slim one - but a chance to keep your job.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

James m said:


> This is a good one on the police, it says maybe we shouldn't call the police over every little thing.
> Are Police Officers Sent to Too Many Places? - The Atlantic


There was a lot of stuff in that article that just pissed me off. I was having a good evening.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

MaterielGeneral said:


> There was a lot of stuff in that article that just pissed me off. I was having a good evening.


Sorry about that.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

It is going to get worse. 

I can see it in some past cadets, a complete and total entitlement syndrome, of being above the law and ridicule. I don't like it any more then anyone else but unless they flaunt it in school we can't fire them for it. Remember failing the academy where I taught was getting fired. We didn't have anyone putting themselves thru school - only new hires. 

This may sound weird but I see it happening too because of our politicians getting away with crap like hilda does. Even the one of the most "esteemed" LE agencies in the United States, secret service, is getting some ugly reports but many agents are not getting fired. Sure they may lose the best details they had, but only a handful get fired and none go to jail. Then you see our "leaders" get away with the crap they do without recourse - thinking again Hilda and obama. The rules don't apply to them; so why the cops? Like I said - its going to get worse before it gets better. Until we find a "Reagan" that respects the constitution and the rule of law; we're going down a rat hole.


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## just mike (Jun 25, 2014)

While I some what agree that taking their phones was wrong , I also think that if you go around recording every thing you do in life it will eventually bite you in the butt .


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I will add one thing about the cell phone. Many employers, not just LE agencies, may require permission to search the phone upon demand as a condition of employment. It was said some silicon valley employers were demanding new hires hand over username and passwords to social media accounts or not take the job - people get the choice - give it up or don't do the job. I suspected there was something like that in my 300 pages of terms and conditions for working / teaching at the academy but I didn't see it. Did I read all 300 pages - oh hell no. If they had searched it they'd have had a good laugh at us as I often post from my iphone. Nothing else there would have been nearly as comical, but their effort would have likely caused me to make my arrangements and leave.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

In 26 years I have identified myself as a Police Officer off duty exactly one time. It is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable for the Government to assume that Officers sign their rights away when they take the oath. We have a reasonable expectation of privacy like everyone else unless we are on duty. Then only in the bathroom.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

just mike said:


> While I some what agree that taking their phones was wrong , I also think that if you go around recording every thing you do in life it will eventually bite you in the butt .


Actually, SCOTUS has already ruled that searching a cell phone without a warrant is unconstitutional, so it is a isn't just "somewhat wrong". It is a clear cut 4th amendment violation.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Ripon said:


> It is going to get worse.
> 
> I can see it in some past cadets, a complete and total entitlement syndrome, of being above the law and ridicule. I don't like it any more then anyone else but unless they flaunt it in school we can't fire them for it. Remember failing the academy where I taught was getting fired. We didn't have anyone putting themselves thru school - only new hires.
> 
> This may sound weird but I see it happening too because of our politicians getting away with crap like hilda does. Even the one of the most "esteemed" LE agencies in the United States, secret service, is getting some ugly reports but many agents are not getting fired. Sure they may lose the best details they had, but only a handful get fired and none go to jail. Then you see our "leaders" get away with the crap they do without recourse - thinking again Hilda and obama. The rules don't apply to them; so why the cops? Like I said - its going to get worse before it gets better. Until we find a "Reagan" that respects the constitution and the rule of law; we're going down a rat hole.


I don't live in LA but close enough and we seem to have a problem with officers forming their own gangs.

L.A. County sheriff's detectives probe secret clique in gang unit - latimes


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Ripon said:


> It is going to get worse.
> 
> I can see it in some past cadets, a complete and total entitlement syndrome, of being above the law and ridicule. I don't like it any more then anyone else but unless they flaunt it in school we can't fire them for it. Remember failing the academy where I taught was getting fired. We didn't have anyone putting themselves thru school - only new hires.
> 
> This may sound weird but I see it happening too because of our politicians getting away with crap like hilda does. Even the one of the most "esteemed" LE agencies in the United States, secret service, is getting some ugly reports but many agents are not getting fired. Sure they may lose the best details they had, but only a handful get fired and none go to jail. Then you see our "leaders" get away with the crap they do without recourse - thinking again Hilda and obama. The rules don't apply to them; so why the cops? Like I said - its going to get worse before it gets better. Until we find a "Reagan" that respects the constitution and the rule of law; we're going down a rat hole.


I don't think that sounds weird *at all*. People learn from their examples; and the people in power using it to put themselves above the law (which happens A LOT) and getting away with it sends a clear message. Worse still, it makes those positions less attractive to people of integrity and more attractive to those with an unhealthily strong attraction to power itself. But unless it's a groundswell from the less privileged working together, it's not gonna stop. A few less powerful people don't have the leverage to make the more powerful follow the laws - and holding them responsible is what it would take to stop the trend.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> I don't live in LA but close enough and we seem to have a problem with officers forming their own gangs.
> 
> L.A. County sheriff's detectives probe secret clique in gang unit - latimes


Speaking of LA, from today's paper:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...erned-shooting-homeless-man-article-1.2213602

Man beaten with Calif. cop?s baton wins $450K settlement - NY Daily News


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

We have this year's Stella Award winner!

Raleigh Police Officer Sues Starbucks Over Spilled Coffee Video - ABC News


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Another case for body cameras:

Dashcam footage shows Delaware police officer kicking suspect in face | Fox News


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Diver said:


> Another case for body cameras:
> 
> Dashcam footage shows Delaware police officer kicking suspect in face | Fox News


I saw this the other day, this was just wrong.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

and now a Darwin award winner!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/dies-ride-bike-stairs-n-h-house-party-article-1.2214957


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

We also have NYPD's contribution to NY gun laws. Buy the guns and ship them out of the country!

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-3-years-prison-exporting-guns-article-1.2164922


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Whoops! Looks like our Stella Award candidate lost in court.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/n-jury-denies-sued-starbucks-hot-coffee-article-1.2218133


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

but this guy passes the idiot test:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-sexually-assaulted-deputy-article-1.2219543


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

James m said:


> This is a good one on the police, it says maybe we shouldn't call the police over every little thing.
> Are Police Officers Sent to Too Many Places? - The Atlantic


Smart thinking. Call Diver.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> Smart thinking. Call Diver.


Or better yet, just deal with your own problems. Calling anyone takes time and anyone you call will be operating without a clue.

Also note that if you call 911, the police now have authority to search (or toss) the place they are called to, shoot your dog or do anything else they imagine will keep them safe. Your safety is definitely secondary and whatever assistance was desired unlikely. Consider how many people have been killed by a "welfare check". Want to check on an elderly or disabled person? Do it yourself.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Here's an example:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...cuffed-baseball-bat-beating-article-1.2220302

It isn't just Baltimore that won't provide medical care.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Today's post comes from IL:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...r-spraying-handcuffed-teens-article-1.2221684


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

and back to NY!

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ct-statements-increase-ccrb-article-1.2222662


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> Or better yet, just deal with your own problems. Calling anyone takes time and anyone you call will be operating without a clue.
> 
> Also note that if you call 911, the police now have authority to search (or toss) the place they are called to, shoot your dog or do anything else they imagine will keep them safe. Your safety is definitely secondary and whatever assistance was desired unlikely. Consider how many people have been killed by a "welfare check". Want to check on an elderly or disabled person? Do it yourself.


So I guess you are also recommending that folks with medical emergencies and fire emergencies to not call 911 either?

In a lot of the US fire and ems are volunteer. The only folks that are even remotely close to full time are the police.

In those towns that I worked we were required to respond to all fire and EMS calls .


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> So I guess you are also recommending that folks with medical emergencies and fire emergencies to not call 911 either?
> 
> In a lot of the US fire and ems are volunteer. The only folks that are even remotely close to full time are the police.
> 
> In those towns that I worked we were required to respond to all fire and EMS calls .


As I have explained before, calling 911 here does not get you fire or EMS. They will send a cop who will determine whether to dispatch fire or EMS. If you think you would like one of those services, the fastest way to get it is call their direct numbers, not 911. Stupid system, but that is the way it works.

Also, once 911 has been called you lose your right to keep the cop out of your house, so you can have someone having a heart attack in your front yard, call 911 hoping for EMS, Barney shows up and decides instead of calling EMS to search your house. No thanks. I'll load the individual into my car and head for the emergency room.

BTW: One of my family members had appendicitis about a week ago. No calls were placed. We just drove straight to the emergency room. When we got there we found a cop at the emergency room door. Did he even help carry our appendicitis victim in or do anything else useful? Nope. Did he step out of the way so we could carry them through the door without having to go around him? Nope.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Today's winner!

NYPD commander arrested on harassment charge: source - NY Daily News


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## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

My agency did a welfare check Thursday and guess what.... we didn't kill a soul or violate any constitutional rights. However we did find a resident having a diabetic emergency and ems was standing by waiting on our call.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

midtnfamilyguy said:


> My agency did a welfare check Thursday and guess what.... we didn't kill a soul or violate any constitutional rights. However we did find a resident having a diabetic emergency and ems was standing by waiting on our call.


http://www.theroot.com/articles/new...illed_by_police_conducting_welfare_check.html

Why was EMS waiting? If the caller was worried about a diabetic, EMS would have been the logical ones to make the welfare check.

BTW: If you have an elderly or infirm person you think may need a welfare check from time to time, then either do it yourself or make arrangements with a friend or neighbor. My elderly father lives alone. One of his neighbors checks on him every single day.

If a cop showed up at my door doing a welfare check I would file a trespassing complaint.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> As I have explained before, calling 911 here does not get you fire or EMS. They will send a cop who will determine whether to dispatch fire or EMS. If you think you would like one of those services, the fastest way to get it is call their direct numbers, not 911. Stupid system, but that is the way it works.
> 
> Also, once 911 has been called you lose your right to keep the cop out of your house, so you can have someone having a heart attack in your front yard, call 911 hoping for EMS, Barney shows up and decides instead of calling EMS to search your house. No thanks. I'll load the individual into my car and head for the emergency room.
> 
> BTW: One of my family members had appendicitis about a week ago. No calls were placed. We just drove straight to the emergency room. When we got there we found a cop at the emergency room door. Did he even help carry our appendicitis victim in or do anything else useful? Nope. Did he step out of the way so we could carry them through the door without having to go around him? Nope.


Just cause the 911 system works the way you describe in your dicked up area, don't go preaching to others where their 911 system may not work the same


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Just cause the 911 system works the way you describe in your dicked up area, don't go preaching to others where their 911 system may not work the same


I don't think it is up to you what advice I give. If your 911 system works they way you like, then maybe it is okay for you to call, but I can't think of anywhere in the country where it makes sense to send a thug with a gun to do a welfare check.

Personally I would never do it because if I care about someone enough to want a welfare check, then I care enough to want them to survive the experience.


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## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

"Why was EMS waiting? If the caller was worried about a diabetic, EMS would have been the logical ones to make the welfare check."


The caller was an out of state child and EMS won't make entry into a house so we do and have them waiting the house was several miles out of town and It's a part of our southern charm. And BTW down here we care about the 2nd amendment and the other rights gave to us.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

midtnfamilyguy said:


> And BTW down here we care about the 2nd amendment and the other rights gave to us.


To be entirely clear, the second amendment spells out rights that are INALIENABLE. They were not given to us by anybody, the right to defend yourself (and others) is an INALIENABLE right that was simply spelled out in the bill of rights.

The bill of rights talks about some of our rights, but it sure as heck does not define ALL of them.


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## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> To be entirely clear, the second amendment spells out rights that are INALIENABLE. They were not given to us by anybody, the right to defend yourself (and others) is an INALIENABLE right that was simply spelled out in the bill of rights.
> 
> The bill of rights talks about some of our rights, but it sure as heck does not define ALL of them.


 I agree but the way I was raised these rights were gave by a higher power that doesn't answer to man.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

midtnfamilyguy said:


> "Why was EMS waiting? If the caller was worried about a diabetic, EMS would have been the logical ones to make the welfare check."
> 
> The caller was an out of state child and EMS won't make entry into a house so we do and have them waiting the house was several miles out of town and It's a part of our southern charm. And BTW down here we care about the 2nd amendment and the other rights gave to us.


EMS won't make entry? So entry was by force? Exactly why I won't call 911. I've already had my home broken into by the police. I don't want to go through that again.

I'm glad to hear you still have the 2nd amendment in TN, but we haven't had it here in decades. I expect you will lose it in TN within another generation.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Another NYPD case:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ypd-learn-treat-deaf-people-article-1.2225278


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> I don't think it is up to you what advice I give.


I don't have a say one way or the other as to what advice you give. I'm just saying that your advise is very ill advised for 99% of the rest of the folks who visit this forum.

Your advice - IMHO - is more likely to result in someone dying that not.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> I don't have a say one way or the other as to what advice you give. I'm just saying that your advise is very ill advised for 99% of the rest of the folks who visit this forum.
> 
> Your advice - IMHO - is more likely to result in someone dying that not.


Then forum members are free to listen to whomever they choose. Personally I feel that calling a clown with a gun and poor judgment to an emergency situation is just plain foolish. Post #39 is a prime example.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> Then forum members are free to listen to whomever they choose. Personally I feel that calling a clown with a gun and poor judgment to an emergency situation is just plain foolish. Post #39 is a prime example.


First off D I doubt if any one would ever call you for help.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Serious question,

I've read many behavioral studies and some training manuals that suggest that Domestic Abuse Calls from "domestic partners, gay and lesbian" are extremely dangerous calls for law enforcement to go. Could answer the mystery as to why certain people have repeated bad experiences with LEO?


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## Sheepdog (Jul 22, 2013)

I have found that people who tend to have bad experiences with the law are on the wrong side of it....Just sayin.


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## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

Diver said:


> EMS won't make entry? So entry was by force? Exactly why I won't call 911. I've already had my home broken into by the police. I don't want to go through that again.
> 
> I'm glad to hear you still have the 2nd amendment in TN, but we haven't had it here in decades. I expect you will lose it in TN within another generation.


Well, I guess we could have let the person die according to you and that would have been alright. But in a life or death situation I'll choose making entry to save someone. and as far as the 2nd amendment goes as long as the northern liberal Yankees stay north everything will be fine.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

White cop gives unarmed black man his boots on a cold night.

NYPD! They're all so evil aren't they?


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

See how that works? It's a two way street. You can post all the negative stuff you want. But the good will always outweigh the bad.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Arklatex is wise beyond his years.

(Slippy wipes a tear from his eye, sad that maybe his work here is nearly done....But then smiles broadly, happy as a pig in shat, realizing that the world is full of those in need his help...now if only diver would respond to his PM's)


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

arklatex said:


> white cop gives unarmed black man his boots on a cold night.
> 
> Nypd! They're all so evil aren't they?
> 
> View attachment 11117


The guy in that picture took the new boots and sold them right after the cop who gave them to him left. Shows the typical gratitude.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> See how that works? It's a two way street. You can post all the negative stuff you want. But the good will always outweigh the bad.


Hasn't yet. Abner Louima lives. It will take a lot of boots to make up for that one.

Of course my views have been flavored by the local police who invaded my home, refused to leave, and then refused to investigate when I complained afterward. It will take a lot of boots to make up for that one too.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I had a negative view of law enforcement since my first speeding ticket as a teenager. If someone is in a hurry to get somewhere and is late, why slow him down? Then you come up with the question "do you know how fast you were going?" Like my truck doesn't come factory equipped with a speedometer? Even if you're not in a hurry, let's say you buy a Dodge viper or a Chevy corvette. Gobs of HP and mountains of torque. And you get to drive it 5 over the limit? Why'd I buy it? Might as well buy an effin Toyota Prius.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

midtnfamilyguy said:


> Well, I guess we could have let the person die according to you and that would have been alright. But in a life or death situation I'll choose making entry to save someone. and as far as the 2nd amendment goes as long as the northern liberal Yankees stay north everything will be fine.


Assuming you do save his life, that's great, but there are so many cases of cops killing the subject of a welfare check, I'd rather not have them around.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> Assuming you do save his life, that's great, but there are so many cases of cops killing the subject of a welfare check, I'd rather not have them around.


Lie Lie and more Lies
There are not "so many cases of cops killing the subjects of a welfare check". Why are you still here?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Lie Lie and more Lies
> There are not "so many cases of cops killing the subjects of a welfare check". Why are you still here?


Probably the same reason as you. 

Any cop that enters my home is a trespasser, pure and simple.

BTW: These came of the first page of a simple Google search, using the terms "welfare check cops".

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/korean-war-veteran-fatally-shot-following-police-welfare-check/
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/10/16/christopher-manney-dontre-hamilton-shooting/


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Sheepdog said:


> I have found that people who tend to have bad experiences with the law are on the wrong side of it....Just sayin.


I've never been arrested or convicted of any crime. I haven't committed any crimes worse than a minor traffic offense. I have had my home invaded by cops. So maybe you should check around your neighborhood to see how your neighbors feel.

BTW: I've lost count of how many times folks on this forum have tried that lame argument.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> I've never been arrested or convicted of any crime. I haven't committed any crimes worse than a minor traffic offense. I have had my home invaded by cops. So maybe you should check around your neighborhood to see how your neighbors feel.
> 
> BTW: I've lost count of how many times folks on this forum have tried that lame argument.


First it's not a lame argument. You say you've never been arrested or convicted of a crime. Ever gotten a speeding ticket? Or say one for reckless driving?

And we only have your side of the story about your home being invaded. Be interesting to hear what the Psycho would tell us about those events.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> First it's not a lame argument. You say you've never been arrested or convicted of a crime. Ever gotten a speeding ticket? Or say one for reckless driving?
> 
> And we only have your side of the story about your home being invaded. Be interesting to hear what the Psycho would tell us about those events.


I'm sure you trust me as much as I trust you. 

I have had a few tickets, perhaps one per decade, but I haven't had one for speeding. Just lucky I guess.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> ...
> Of course my views have been flavored by the local police who invaded my home, refused to leave, and then refused to investigate when I complained afterward. It will take a lot of boots to make up for that one too.





Slippy said:


> Serious question,
> 
> I've read many behavioral studies and some training manuals that suggest that Domestic Abuse Calls from "domestic partners, gay and lesbian" are extremely dangerous calls for law enforcement to go. Could answer the mystery as to why certain people have repeated bad experiences with LEO?


Ringin' a bell diver?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Here is some good news relating to cops I just ran across. It's a couple weeks old but I just became aware of it:

Habersham leaders relieved after Phonesavanh settlement


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Ringin' a bell diver?


Are you involved in a Domestic Abuse situation?


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Why do we have the 2nd amendment if'n we can just call the coppers?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Who started this thread?



Diver said:


> BTW: If the forum would like to quit having discussions about cops or race relations, etc. and get back to prepping, that is fine by me.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> I'm sure you trust me as much as I trust you.
> 
> I have had a few tickets, perhaps one per decade, but I haven't had one for speeding. Just lucky I guess.


Never said I didn't trust you. Said that I bet the Psycho would tell a different story. But hey I believe you when you say you didn't call the cops. I do think that the Psycho did. Since only one side was telling the story they believed him/her right?

But was that your only sideways experience with the local cops?


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Denton said:


> Who started this thread?


the think the one TDNPWWC started it.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Who started this thread?


You haven't indicated you want to stop having these discussions. Of course as a mod, you could jus shut this down, but unless you are going to do the same for all the threads started by Sarge and other cops, I don't see how it will make much difference.

If the mods collectively want an end to this stuff, then make a new rule and enforce it even handedly. I'll go along with the rules as long as everyone else does.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Never said I didn't trust you. Said that I bet the Psycho would tell a different story. But hey I believe you when you say you didn't call the cops. I do think that the Psycho did. Since only one side was telling the story they believed him/her right?
> 
> But was that your only sideways experience with the local cops?


The only reason you keep asking about my experience is so you can try to dig into it. If you think I am going to make that easy, think again. 

I don't trust you.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Diver said:


> Here is some good news relating to cops I just ran across. It's a couple weeks old but I just became aware of it:
> 
> Habersham leaders relieved after Phonesavanh settlement


Those in command of the raid should be fired and their home's and property forfeited for their mistake.
Those proceeds to be used for compensation not just taxpayer funds.
There is no excuse for hitting the wrong home.
Where was the recon surveillance prior to the raid?
Sloppy work by the Department, they should pay.
If the police department personnel knew that their personal property was up for grabs in litigation they would be more likely to get it right. 
I support the police 100%, but not when these incident happen due to their indifferent attitude to the safety of the public at large in these raids gone wrong, absolutely no excuse for it.
NO DIVER, I AM NOT STICKING UP FOR YOU AND YOUR OCD OVER THE POLICE.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Those in command of the raid should be fired and their home's and property forfeited for their mistake.
> Those proceeds to be used for compensation not just taxpayer funds.
> There is no excuse for hitting the wrong home.
> Where was the recon surveillance prior to the raid?
> ...


That's okay. No need to stick up for me. At least we agree on this one.

As for OCD, this seems to be the stuff that predominates on this forum. It has become much more of a cop lovers forum than a prepper forum, so I am just going with the flow.  If the forum returns to discussions on prepping, I'll be pleased to go along.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Let me say this here, I was on the local PD for 20 years, retiring as a Det. Sgt.
I was part time like most of the force until I had closed my business as a full time operation.
I then worked the dept. full time for four years.
NEVER would I have allowed anything operational that was not an emergency situation,
go without total knowledge of the situation and the latest intel (hourly) from the intended warrant issuance location.
There is no excuse for those kind of mistakes.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Let me say this here, I was on the local PD for 20 years, retiring as a Det. Sgt.
> I was part time like most of the force until I had closed my business as a full time operation.
> I then worked the dept. full time for four years.
> NEVER would I have allowed anything operational that was not an emergency situation,
> ...


You mean like these?

A map of American SWAT raids gone wrong


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Diver said:


> You mean like these?
> 
> A map of American SWAT raids gone wrong


I don't have to look at them, I have seen them before, many of those incidents were used by me in training our guys.
I could never stress how important it was to do a raid right, absolutely right.
There is right and wrong in law enforcement, I never condoned or approved of anything wrong.
We let people go for screw-ups not cover them up to cover someone's ass.
You piss me off with your bad cop rhetoric, most are good guys, some are arrogant, some are sleazes, but buy in large they are good.
If you have such a sociopathic hatred of the cops in NJ, why not move to a small southern town where you can be comfortable and live without fear and or anxiety.
THEN IT WILL BE UP TO YOU TO SEE HOW WELL YOUR INTERFACE WITH LEO'S GOES.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> I don't have to look at them, I have seen them before, many of those incidents were used by me in training our guys.
> I could never stress how important it was to do a raid right, absolutely right.
> There is right and wrong in law enforcement, I never condoned or approved of anything wrong.
> We let people go for screw-ups not cover them up to cover someone's ass.
> ...


Soco quit beating your head against a wall. he said he grew up in the south and went north as an adult.

We all agree bad cops need to be dealt with. With D all cops are bad. Don't let him get to you.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> I don't have to look at them, I have seen them before, many of those incidents were used by me in training our guys.
> I could never stress how important it was to do a raid right, absolutely right.
> There is right and wrong in law enforcement, I never condoned or approved of anything wrong.
> We let people go for screw-ups not cover them up to cover someone's ass.
> ...


So you think cops in the south are more competent? Like the one's in Habersham, GA who you just criticized? As for my interface with LEOs, why do I need one? I have no intention of having any contact with LEOs that can possibly be avoided.

You don't seem to be able to contain your anger, but you think I am sociopathic? LOL


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Soco quit beating your head against a wall. he said he grew up in the south and went north as an adult.
> 
> We all agree bad cops need to be dealt with. With D all cops are bad. Don't let him get to you.


You are misquoting me. Some are bad, most are stupid. Good ones refuse to enforce gun laws in may issue states. Maybe I'll meet one someday but I am not looking for one. SOCOM is claiming to be a good one, but seems to have an anger management problem so I am dubious. I have no idea how he dealt with unconstitutional MA gun laws.

Unfortunately, you never know what you are dealing with in advance, so you can't trust any of them until they demonstrate what they are: good, bad, or incompetent. It is a safe bet when one breaks into your house, he is either a bad cop or dumb as a brick.

Oh yeah, I have said you are a bad cop, based on your attitude here. I'll stick by that.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Diver said:


> So you think cops in the south are more competent? Like the one's in Habersham, GA who you just criticized? As for my interface with LEOs, why do I need one? I have no intention of having any contact with LEOs that can possibly be avoided.
> 
> You don't seem to be able to contain your anger, but you think I am sociopathic? LOL


I am not angry, far from it.
Sociopath? yes I do.
Your rants have no rational basis.
You are not going to antagonize me or bait me, because I don't give a damn what you do, but I find it humorous that you have alienated so many members here. 
If I was angry, I would be kicked off of here for what I would post.

Not every location is devoid of police problems, human nature will ensure that.
Small towns have less of a Fort Apache the Bronx attitude than the big cities. 
If you live in a demorat controlled city, everyone hates everyone else, that is a fungal infection that has to be scraped off.
If you don't like the south then move to Vermont or NH, gun laws are mostly non existent there.
Clearly you are not happy where you are, get out!
With your attitude, somewhere down the line you are going to get into some real trouble with law enforcement.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> I am not angry, far from it.
> Sociopath? yes I do.
> Your rants have no rational basis.
> You are not going to antagonize me or bait me, because I don't give a damn what you do, but I find it humorous that you have alienated so many members here.
> ...


Rants? Most of this thread is simply links to news stories.

You're the one who said I piss you off. That sounds angry to me. 

You have cause and effect reversed. I already had trouble with law enforcement, hence what you call attitude. If there is "real trouble with law enforcement" in the future, it will be initiated by them, not me. I am a law abiding citizen and do not seek any contact with law enforcement. If it happens to be with my local PD it will lead directly to a large harassment suit as past experience, and the resulting settlement, will demonstrate a pattern of harassment.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Diver said:


> You are misquoting me. Some are bad, most are stupid. Good ones refuse to enforce gun laws in may issue states. Maybe I'll meet one someday but I am not looking for one. SOCOM is claiming to be a good one, but seems to have an anger management problem so I am dubious. I have no idea how he dealt with unconstitutional MA gun laws.
> 
> Unfortunately, you never know what you are dealing with in advance, so you can't trust any of them until they demonstrate what they are: good, bad, or incompetent. It is a safe bet when one breaks into your house, he is either a bad cop or dumb as a brick.
> 
> Oh yeah, I have said you are a bad cop, based on your attitude here. I'll stick by that.


Think what you want, I don't care. 
I don't claim anything, I know I did what was right.
In twenty years I never had a complaint filed against me or ever faced false arrest charges.
My attitude?? let everyone else here judge that and speak out what they think, 
you sir are so jaded you will never see beyond your nose.

As far as gun laws in this state go, everyone without a felony conviction can get a conceal carry license.
NO ONE IN THIS TOWN THAT WAS NOT A CONVICTED FELON WAS EVER DENIED A LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED.
IN FACT WE RECOMMENDED THE CLASS "A" TO ANY THAT APPLIED FOR ANY OTHER LOWER LEVEL OF ISSUANCE.
You are not limited to what or how many you can carry either.
OH YEAH, they are not issued to mental incompetents or with two DUI convictions either, go to New Hampshire.
In this town there are 30 licenses to posses machineguns, how many where you live?
There are only two cops that have them, the rest civilians.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> You are misquoting me. Some are bad, most are stupid. Good ones refuse to enforce gun laws in may issue states. Maybe I'll meet one someday but I am not looking for one. SOCOM is claiming to be a good one, but seems to have an anger management problem so I am dubious. I have no idea how he dealt with unconstitutional MA gun laws.
> 
> Unfortunately, you never know what you are dealing with in advance, so you can't trust any of them until they demonstrate what they are: good, bad, or incompetent. It is a safe bet when one breaks into your house, he is either a bad cop or dumb as a brick.
> 
> Oh yeah, I have said you are a bad cop, based on your attitude here. I'll stick by that.


Funny guy. Anger issues wouldn't be the reason you can't get a CCW? Bad cop? How many have you put in a non paid status? None. Me? There are quite a number that are bagging groceries at the dollar general that don't carry a badge anymore.

Me an attitude. Wait a minute - not lynching folks because they exercise their constitutional rights. Or does it have to do with me believing in our criminal justice system- whether it's letting a grand jury do it's job or the 9 wise ones on deciding what is or is not constitutional.

Or do you object to my not totally believing your fantasy regarding your unpleasant experience with the law. My guess is that you - not the psycho, not the cops - caused the problem that brought them to your door. My guess is that you are not man enough to own up to your own short comings and have gone thru life blaming everyone else for little diver's problems.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Funny guy. Anger issues wouldn't be the reason you can't get a CCW? Bad cop? How many have you put in a non paid status? None. Me? There are quite a number that are bagging groceries at the dollar general that don't carry a badge anymore.
> 
> Me an attitude. Wait a minute - not lynching folks because they exercise their constitutional rights. Or does it have to do with me believing in our criminal justice system- whether it's letting a grand jury do it's job or the 9 wise ones on deciding what is or is not constitutional.
> 
> Or do you object to my not totally believing your fantasy regarding your unpleasant experience with the law. My guess is that you - not the psycho, not the cops - caused the problem that brought them to your door. My guess is that you are not man enough to own up to your own short comings and have gone thru life blaming everyone else for little diver's problems.


You know full well the state of NJ does not issue CCW permits and we have had multiple cases turned down by SCOTUS on just this issue. You are not going to convince someone who knows anything about the state of CCW in NJ that normal citizens have CCW available. As for the rest, do you really think I care what you think?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Think what you want, I don't care.
> I don't claim anything, I know I did what was right.
> In twenty years I never had a complaint filed against me or ever faced false arrest charges.
> My attitude?? let everyone else here judge that and speak out what they think,
> ...


You may have approved permits in your town, but MA is still a may issue state and has gun laws not much better than NY or NJ. All it takes under MA law to turn it into NJ is for different individuals to inhabit the police chief jobs. So much for the 2nd amendment in MA.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Today there were several interesting stories from the NYC area, but I figured this one impacted the most people and it is very good news for them.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...-old-warrant-amnesty-report-article-1.2225824

However, it was sort of offset by this one:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-sentence-ex-rikers-captain-article-1.2227018


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Seems to be an active week for Riker's Island:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-jail-raped-inmates-lawsuit-article-1.2228477


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Fortunately I did not get to participate in this interesting thread because our pal who started the witty exchange has been twit filtered for a long time. Sometimes I hit see what he said anyway. And yep as we would say down in Young County. He is still sillier than a tree full of ass holes.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Fortunately I did not get to participate in this interesting thread because our pal who started the witty exchange has been twit filtered for a long time. Sometimes I hit see what he said anyway. And yep as we would say down in Young County. He is still sillier than a tree full of ass holes.


Big that's not nice. He's not really as bad as little jimmy was, not that dip that got slip banned


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Ok..I am still waiting to be impressed. Thanks. I got commie liberal kinfolks to try and help drag back from the flames. Does charity start close to home or what? lol. Father Forgive me.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> Fortunately I did not get to participate in this interesting thread because our pal who started the witty exchange has been twit filtered for a long time. Sometimes I hit see what he said anyway. And yep as we would say down in Young County. He is still sillier than a tree full of ass holes.


Typical inciter.



SARGE7402 said:


> Big that's not nice. He's not really as bad as little jimmy was, not that dip that got slip banned


and another.



bigwheel said:


> Ok..I am still waiting to be impressed. Thanks. I got commie liberal kinfolks to try and help drag back from the flames. Does charity start close to home or what? lol. Father Forgive me.


and another.

Don't they teach you guys anything else in cop school?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

While the cops are joking amongst themselves we have the latest on one of the larger cases in the local NYPD news:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...eaten-bikers-recalls-attack-article-1.2228107

For those who are unaware of this story a bike ganga attacked a family in a SUV, then it turned out that one of the leading assailants was an undercover cop. The trial is now underway. It is much more complex than my short synopsis, but there is pretty much a daily article on this one locally.


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Cheet even when someone tries to stick up for your whinney little keister you got to get a dig in.

None of the cops on this forum have anything good to say about bad cops. But we also tend to think that most cops (almost a million folks wearing some form of a badge from US Marshall's to Animal Control to Fire Marshalls) are honest hardworking decent folks.

Not the stupid bumbling folks that you try and paint a picture of.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> Typical inciter.
> 
> and another.
> 
> ...


I thought he left?


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

SARGE7402 said:


> Cheet even when someone tries to stick up for your whinney little keister you got to get a dig in.
> 
> None of the cops on this forum have anything good to say about bad cops. But we also tend to think that most cops (almost a million folks wearing some form of a badge from US Marshall's to Animal Control to Fire Marshalls) are honest hardworking decent folks.
> 
> Not the stupid bumbling folks that you try and paint a picture of.


I agree. Most cops are good people. I personally have never met a bad one. I personally think most people feel the same way, which is why Diver gets so much flack on this topic.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> I agree. Most cops are good people. I personally have never met a bad one. I personally think most people feel the same way, which is why Diver gets so much flack on this topic.


So I can safely assume you haven't met these guys:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...rsey-strip-club-prosecutors-article-1.2229169

I have.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Nope sure haven't. I haven't been to a jiggle joint/mammary mecca in years. 

Thanks for the laugh.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Up until about a year ago it was perfectly legal for Honolulu PD to have sex with prostitutes. They fought the decision, said they needed it for "undercover" work. Ha! Undercover....


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

I see a lot of bad cops post from diver, will he ever have a good cop post? I am sure there is at least one good cop in the entire country.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

6811 said:


> I see a lot of bad cops post from diver, will he ever have a good cop post? I am sure there is at least one good cop in the entire country.


To qualify as a good cop one must respect the Bill of Rights, particularly the 2nd and 4th amendments. Since NJ law violates the Bill of Rights, the idea of a "good NJ cop" is an oxymoron. The nearest "good cop" might be somewhere in PA.

So while the idea of a "good cop" post from me is a possibility, I would guess it is unlikely.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Advice to the youngsters,

If where you live is corrupt, evil and filthy. MOVE If where you live begins to turn you into a cynical whiny little bitch. MOVE If you are "victimized" by LE where you live. MOVE!

Take control of your life. If not...you will end up a cynical whiny little bitch. (See above)


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> To qualify as a good cop one must respect the Bill of Rights, particularly the 2nd and 4th amendments. Since NJ law violates the Bill of Rights, the idea of a "goog NJ cop" is an oxymoron. The nearest "good cop" might be somewhere in PA.
> 
> So while the idea of a "good cop" post from me is a possibility, I would guess it is unlikely.


So ALL new jersey cops are bad. Wow, that's a lot of bad cops.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Advice to the youngsters,
> 
> If where you live is corrupt, evil and filthy. MOVE If where you live begins to turn you into a cynical whiny little bitch. MOVE If you are "victimized" by LE where you live. MOVE!
> 
> Take control of your life. If not...you will end up a cynical whiny little bitch. (See above)


You know long time ago I used to live in a state where the politics was crappy. Something I did not agree with. Since there was no chance in hell that I could make changes to the politics of the place, I moved to the next state over. I felt better and happier. Good advice slippy.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

6811 said:


> So ALL new jersey cops are bad. Wow, that's a lot of bad cops.


No that isn't right. The bulk of them are just incompetent. An incompetent cop is obviously not a good cop.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Looks like they have a problem in DC:

Capitol Police set for toilet training after breaking ?rule number one,? leaving guns in lavatories | Fox News

This would be a good example of incompetence as well.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> Looks like they have a problem in DC:
> 
> Capitol Police set for toilet training after breaking ?rule number one,? leaving guns in lavatories | Fox News
> 
> This would be a good example of incompetence as well.


I know exactly what is your problem with cops... You are jealous because they can carry firearms and you can't. Oh by the way, cops can now carry everywhere to include NY and NJ. Don't that suck, cops from out of state walking around jersey and Manhattan armed and you can't.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

6811 said:


> I know exactly what is your problem with cops... You are jealous because they can carry firearms and you can't. Oh by the way, cops can now carry everywhere to include NY and NJ. Don't that suck, cops from out of state walking around jersey and Manhattan armed and you can't.


So I take it you don't agree with the 2nd amendment?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> So I take it you don't agree with the 2nd amendment?


I did not see anything that suggests that 6811 does not agree with the 2nd Amendment. You have this really bad habit of dealing with fact and you tend to make stuff up.

Stop being a douche.

Thanks


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> So I take it you don't agree with the 2nd amendment?


Yes and no... Yes 2a is awesome but....personally I don't need a law or a document to tell me that I am allowed to possess a weapon to defend myself. I do not need permission from any govt. And I refuse to be a victim. But that is just me... I rather do something about the matter than whine and cry about it and hate the police for it.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

6811 said:


> I know exactly what is your problem with cops... You are jealous because they can carry firearms and you can't. Oh by the way, cops can now carry everywhere to include NY and NJ. Don't that suck, cops from out of state walking around jersey and Manhattan armed and you can't.


Systematic violation of the Bill od Rights does bother me. Nice to know you don't care about our Constitution or the rights of others.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

6811 said:


> Yes and no... Yes 2a is awesome but....personally I don't need a law or a document to tell me that I am allowed to possess a weapon to defend myself. I do not need permission from any govt. And I refuse to be a victim. But that is just me... I rather do something about the matter than whine and cry about it and hate the police for it.


That's terrific that you are such a manly man. Either you're a cop too, which explains you, or you're a carjacker in Newark. Everybody else with that attitude is doing 3-10 in NJ prison.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> That's terrific that you are such a manly man. Either you're a cop too, which explains you, or you're a carjacker in Newark. Everybody else with that attitude is doing 3-10 in NJ prison.


I'm a trash man, not a car jacker. I'm not a manly man, but I am not a whiny bitch.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> Systematic violation of the Bill od Rights does bother me. Nice to know you don't care about our Constitution or the rights of others.


Here we go..... Branded me as someone who doesn't care about peoples rights. You don't know me, you don't know anything about me. Who do you think you are diver? What have you done for others and what have you done for the constitution? Have you ever sworn an oath to defend, protect and uphold the constitution? Have you ever volunteered to be in harms way to protect peoples rights?


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