# ghost guns 80% options beyond just the AR-15



## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

For those of you who have the tools and ability to do the detailed work this site has some nice 80% options for making ghost guns.

https://www.ghostguns.com/

they even have a frame for the boring Glock that may make it actually worth owning a Glock lol has more of a 1911 ergonomic to it. (can even be done with a standard hand drill and dremel)

also 1911, AR-9, AR-15, AR-10, some sig options, and even AK-47.

I am tempted to try out the 1911 kit when i got some extra money.

they even have video tutorials of their builds.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

They are very EXPENSIVE.

If anyone tries them, be careful when cutting, tools can grab and break.

I could finish one in about two hours in my Bridgeport, just not interested, work on them enough as is.

Now if you feel you have a need to build one and bury it with mags and ammo, then do it.

If you have never filled out a 4473 and there is no other gun related paper trail to you in any way,

and you want to keep it that way, good idea. 

If you live in Commiefornia, get your ammo now for it before the new laws take effect.

Don't go in the store with a tinfoil hat on either.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I have completed a handful of 80% AR lowers with the easy router jig and drill press. Easy to complete in 1-2 hours depending on experience. AR15 80% lowers are not expensive at all. I got my last one for $26.


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

SOCOM42 said:


> They are very EXPENSIVE.
> 
> If anyone tries them, be careful when cutting, tools can grab and break.
> 
> ...


I wouldnt really call the 80%'s expensive the over all cost is not that much more then getting a new gun from a shop but if things ever do turn around and power returns to the demonrats and they find a way to start confiscating guns you just keep the ghost guns well hidden and turn over anything you did a background check on. Also the corrupt states that are already violating the 2nd amendment at least until they make 80% kits illegal to purchase in their states you can build something.

also some people just really enjoy building something for themselves, for me it will be mostly practice and learning how they function beyond just field stripping and cleaning as I am going for an associates of applied science in firearms technology to either become a gunsmith or maybe even work for one of the manufactures. Dont see me inventing anything I have never had creative talent but building stuff from a static design i can handle just a matter of practice and attention to detail.

if you dont know what you are doing when it comes to working with the materials then yes to expensive to mess with it is obviously for those who are shop rats and enjoy building stuff.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

@Quantum Donut,

I did a 50% S&W 639 frame in SS.

Frame was left over from building some mill fixtures for S&W.

Mag well and trigger slot were all that was done.

Used the frame to replace an aluminum 39-2 unit.

Two tone, blued slide and SS frame.

That I did 30 years ago, before this kit stuff.

I have had my hand at building them from bar stock, even invented a few things gun related.

There is a hell of a difference in being a gunsmith and working for a manufacturer.

A little more detail?


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

SOCOM42 said:


> @Quantum Donut,
> 
> I did a 50% S&W 639 frame in SS.
> 
> ...


building mass produced stuff you could learn with out a degree hell in 3rd world countries there are people in grass huts making 1911's illegally with old hand tools just to put food on the table. depending on what you are doing for the manufacturer the tasks can be pretty routine and not much different in manufacturing much of anything else. I worked in factories where we made parts for tractors and other machine parts and that was actually just as complex as building many firearms. the Glock was invented in some guys garage for example. building stuff that is already proven from existing diagrams or blueprints is a lot easier then coming up with something new specially since the first rendition rarely if ever functions as intended you have to go through prototypes ect..

these 80% kits are actually designed so even some one one with minimal knowledge could just follow the steps using the jig and suggested tools far cry from building anything from scratch. I used to cast my own slingshots as a kid i would collect all the soda and beer cans in the neighborhood and melt em down then use foam loss casting in sand then shape with files and polish with sand paper. If you repeat the same task enough times even complex ones it becomes muscle memory but to create something takes more then knowledge and practice you need to have creative talent something i do not have. I can learn lots of things but creating something original not so much. I have made parts from stock or scrap metal from photos in magazines though that turned out perfect for some old guns. At the moment i am trying to find good photos of the breach block and firing pin for an old belgian .22 black powder cartridge Flobert that i got cheap at a gun show.

also many gunsmiths manufacture their own tools and quickly learn how to make parts from stock using photos of the parts. depends on the gunsmith some will specialize some will do it all we all function differently  but some things almost any one can do if they are patient and pay attention. the patience and attention to detail are the reason most people mess up an 80% build.


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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

I have a finished lower, and just ordered a complete AR build kit delivered for $350. I could get a finished gun for not much more, but it would have to go through a dealer ($25-$50), background check ($25), taxes, $40 in gas, and half a day driving. I think build kits are a good idea on that basis alone. Saves me a cool hundred dollars and back stress from driving. I just wish they made lever action kits, and single action kits...


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

Stick said:


> I have a finished lower, and just ordered a complete AR build kit delivered for $350. I could get a finished gun for not much more, but it would have to go through a dealer ($25-$50), background check ($25), taxes, $40 in gas, and half a day driving. I think build kits are a good idea on that basis alone. Saves me a cool hundred dollars and back stress from driving. I just wish they made lever action kits, and single action kits...


ya also nice to have at least 1-2 back up guns that technically do not exist . as for the lever and single action you would likely have to do it from complete scratch meaning some real know how unless you can find some at gun shows that are old enough that they dont require the background check to fix up/restore although many of those tend to be black powder cartridge rather then modern smokeless. Although black powder is easier to make yourself  you can get muzzle loader kits from www.traditionsfirearms.com I actually built one from them recently as a lab project for one of my classes a nice .50 caliber Shenandoah percussion, but ya an 80% lever action would be very fun.

did a search for 80% lever action only thing that came up was a forum post about a garage machinist making his own and a link to this site http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/commerce.cgi


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

If I buy an AR lower, . . . in central Ohio, . . . 

And Joe buys an Ar lower, . . . in Cleveland, . . . 

He and I can trade the identical lowers in a Walmart parking lot, . . . in Akron for example, . . . 

The paper trail just died as we drive away from each other.

PLUS, . . . if I ever get hard up for money, . . . I can sell my 100% legal firearm.

Ghost guns cannot be sold, traded, or even given away. Original owner only.

OR, . . . take the chance that the buyer is not a fed agent, . . . setting you up for Leavenworth.

Nahhh, . . . all of mine so far are legit lowers, . . .

Just my $.02

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

dwight55 said:


> If I buy an AR lower, . . . in central Ohio, . . .
> 
> And Joe buys an Ar lower, . . . in Cleveland, . . .
> 
> ...


actually you can sell a ghost gun legally you just have to put your name on it and scribe a serial number in it and then perform the sale through a legal means. ghost guns can also be left in a will to someone it is just a lot of extra work to remain legal is all. also the paper trail does not technically end with your swap option you have to do a bill of sale even if hand written and provide the proof you sold it does not have to lead them to the buyer just proof of the sale or they could get a warrant to ransack your property if gun confiscation ever does happen. you can sell it with out the bill of sale in some states yes but then you have no proof you sold it.

a ghost gun never actually exists unless you stamp your name and a serial number on it and register or sell it. it just can not be sold with out a serial number and manufacture name on it except in the case of those very old guns where such thing have worn off from excessive pitting which dont need an 4473 to sell/buy anyway like the belgian flobert i purchased at a gun show some of its proof marks are barely visible.

mostly ghost guns are just fun to build for those who build them only a fraction of those who build them do it for the tin foil hat reason  unless they live in one of those states that has unconstitutional bans... commiefornia...

Edit: also with most ghost guns only one small part is the actual firearm meaning that is the only part that requires the extra work to sell it you can sell the rest of the parts just fine.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Any self-manufactured firearm can be legally sold as long as it has a permanent serial number on it.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

an 80% SIG amt Receiver would be fun ...


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Every weapon I own is really a Ghost gun. There is no registration of weapons in this state never has been. Nothing much to trace them back to me and once dead any paper trail ends. I have one weapon that Da's had one of mine for about a year, I am sure that serial number is linked to me.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I checked out the ghostgun web site. Very interesting. I watched and really liked the videos on making an AK-47. I can see a new winter time project on the horizon.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

80% 10/22 Receivers must exist .


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Gator Monroe said:


> an 80% SIG amt Receiver would be fun ...


I did an FFL transfer and backround check on one of these 2 weeks ago. The gun was mint condition. I don't think it was ever fired. Not a scratch or mark on it. Guy paid $9000 for it.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

There is lotsa $$ to be made in the firearm business still ...


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks, folks, . . . 

My information that I had relied completely on GCA 68, . . . without the "updates".

Apparently a ghost gun CAN BE transferred, . . . legally, . . . to another buyer.

I am glad to see this, . . . as I was totally under the opposite understanding, . . . and needed to be updated.

May God bless,
Dwight

PS: ( Now back to the basement and that 80% lower..........)


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

dwight55 said:


> Thanks, folks, . . .
> 
> My information that I had relied completely on GCA 68, . . . without the "updates".
> 
> ...


there is one caveat though if you are building ghost guns with the intent to sell them even if you do all the requirements then you must get an FFL and register as a manufacturer and pay the 1500 dollar or so extortion fee because of ITAR other wise then it would be illegal. But if you just decide to sell one you made later its all good as long as you follow the laws its a shame our ancestors let the government get so big and powerful


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Quantum Donut said:


> there is one caveat though if you are building ghost guns with the intent to sell them even if you do all the requirements then you must get an FFL and register as a manufacturer and pay the 1500 dollar or so extortion fee because of ITAR other wise then it would be illegal. But if you just decide to sell one you made later its all good as long as you follow the laws its a shame our ancestors let the government get so big and powerful


 if you sell One after owning it for a reasonable time good. But try selling a second one and let them find out.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

If you assemble firearms based on an 80% lower and choose to sell one or more then you have nothing to worry about as long as you remain small, meaning sell a few here and there and not make it big enough to draw attention. Seriously, unless you are engaging in suspicious behaviors that would draw law enforcement/ATF to you, then you should be fine.


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

Smitty901 said:


> if you sell One after owning it for a reasonable time good. But try selling a second one and let them find out.


pretty much they may even investigate you if they get Intel that you have built 5 or more ghost guns and attempt to nail you for intent. However if you get an FFL and file all the paper work and pay your fee to become a legit manufacturer you can build as many as you like to sell out of your garage. over all easiest thing to do is to just destroy the part that is considered the firearm and sell the remaining components as a kit with out the lower or part that is considered the firearm. or keep it as a paper weight you can turn back into a firearm in the future.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Quantum Donut said:


> pretty much they may even investigate you if they get Intel that you have built 5 or more ghost guns and attempt to nail you for intent. However if you get an FFL and file all the paper work and pay your fee to become a legit manufacturer you can build as many as you like to sell out of your garage. over all easiest thing to do is to just destroy the part that is considered the firearm and sell the remaining components as a kit with out the lower or part that is considered the firearm. or keep it as a paper weight you can turn back into a firearm in the future.


 Experience here. It is not that they investigate you. Someone else gets in a jam and way out is give them someone else. Next thing you know you can be arrested and accused of a weapons crime even if you have never in you life sold one. So you sell a couple 80% . One of the buyers does something and is being looked at by ATF. Do you really think you can keep your name out of it? Twenty years after I picked up a weapon for someone. It was purchased legal , it was purchased by some one that could legally own one. It was sold again some years latter. Down the road it was used in a crime. They tried their best to tie me to the weapon being used in a crime all those years latter.
To properly maintain a FFL and store weapons according to their requirements in no easy task I have a few people I know that do have FFl's. A lot of FFL holders have gotten into hot water over minor mistakes.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Experience here. It is not that they investigate you. Someone else gets in a jam and way out is give them someone else. Next thing you know you can be arrested and accused of a weapons crime even if you have never in you life sold one. So you sell a couple 80% . One of the buyers does something and is being looked at by ATF. Do you really think you can keep your name out of it? Twenty years after I picked up a weapon for someone. It was purchased legal , it was purchased by some one that could legally own one. It was sold again some years latter. Down the road it was used in a crime. They tried their best to tie me to the weapon being used in a crime all those years latter.
> To properly maintain a FFL and store weapons according to their requirements in no easy task I have a few people I know that do have FFl's. A lot of FFL holders have gotten into hot water over minor mistakes.


Food for thought for sure. A reason why you should only consider selling a built firearm to a person that you know and trust.


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

Smitty901 said:


> Experience here. It is not that they investigate you. Someone else gets in a jam and way out is give them someone else. Next thing you know you can be arrested and accused of a weapons crime even if you have never in you life sold one. So you sell a couple 80% . One of the buyers does something and is being looked at by ATF. Do you really think you can keep your name out of it? Twenty years after I picked up a weapon for someone. It was purchased legal , it was purchased by some one that could legally own one. It was sold again some years latter. Down the road it was used in a crime. They tried their best to tie me to the weapon being used in a crime all those years latter.
> To properly maintain a FFL and store weapons according to their requirements in no easy task I have a few people I know that do have FFl's. A lot of FFL holders have gotten into hot water over minor mistakes.


ya I am a gunsmithing student and one of my current classes had a chapter on some of the legal complexities for both a gunsmith as well as just a gun store you either gotta become an expert or keep an attorney on retainer to keep you out of hot water. personally i think i will likely focus on something with less risk at first until i get more comfortable such as Cerakote and Hydrographic dipping but working for someone else so the the risk is on them .


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

An 80 % Mini 30 Receiver would be interesting


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Food for thought for sure. A reason why you should only consider selling a built firearm to a person that you know and trust.


 Ask yourself who can you trust when they are facing the ATF or LE. Can you trust someone you know now 10-20 years down the road. Can you control what they latter do or one of their family member's do with that weapon.
At the time I had never sold a weapon to anyone and to this day I have not done so. I have not even sold a part to one. I have given a few parts away but never sold anything.
The ATF does not play by any rules. They will make the out come fit what they want it to be.
Ruby Ridge Randy Weaver August 22 1992.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Ask yourself who can you trust when they are facing the ATF or LE. Can you trust someone you know now 10-20 years down the road. Can you control what they latter do or one of their family member's do with that weapon.
> At the time I had never sold a weapon to anyone and to this day I have not done so. I have not even sold a part to one. I have given a few parts away but never sold anything.
> The ATF does not play by any rules. They will make the out come fit what they want it to be.
> Ruby Ridge Randy Weaver August 22 1992.


I have family and long time friends that I trust and have sold to. Have you been burned by family or friends?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

RedLion said:


> I have family and long time friends that I trust and have sold to. Have you been burned by family or friends?


 I don't and won't sell a fire arm. I have seen how Some LEO entities like ATF can make people do things they would not normally.


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## Quantum Donut (Aug 9, 2017)

Smitty901 said:


> I don't and won't sell a fire arm. I have seen how Some LEO entities like ATF can make people do things they would not normally.


well with the internet and ability to have your FFL gun shop ship to another FFL gun shop you can safely sell through www.gunbroker.com since once it goes through an FFL it is no longer tied to you in anyway. also if sold to some one you never met and never interact with again there is nothing they can do and if they try you can sue the ATF and win for harassment. I to will not sell any personal firearms except through an FFL mostly to keep my self covered from any potential shit storm. Even if i decide to start my own business I have my business buy it from me then put it on the wall or in the case to be sold by the business. though dont plan on getting into sales i plan to get into fixing firearms.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I resolved the selling problem, I keep them all, I will let my kid count them when I am gone.

I had one brush in with ATF over a sale 25 years ago, plus unauthorized visits by enforcement without a warrant.

an SKS used in a bank robbery in another state, made me go through my records of sales to find the buyer in this state,

treated me like I was in on heist, even claimed I was stalling to protect the buyer. 

Went to gunsmithing and military manufacturing only shortly after that, kept the remainder of my inventory for myself.

They harassed me because I made full auto stuff as a subcontractor, insisted I was parting out product to assemble my own.

If the had "found" any "evidence" it would have been planted by them.

Even had them try to set me up a few times with a agent buyer from another office since I knew all of them in the

local office.

As far as ghost guns go, it would be of no use, but already have sterile ones, and I am too well known by the 

State Police, local police, BATFE, FBI, and god knows who else, black chopper people for sure.

They will not pass over me during an inquisition of the people, I might be one of the first on their list. My Civilian

and military background would put me to the forefront, 

they for nothing else might grab me thinking I would be a force multiplier.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> I don't and won't sell a fire arm. I have seen how Some LEO entities like ATF can make people do things they would not normally.


And I am not trying to convince otherwise. We disagree and that is ok.


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