# Doom and gloom predictions of trade war



## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Ok. I am not the smartest person in the world...... but I am not stupid. I received a college education at one of our federal military academies but I need a little help here.

Some are predicting the proposed steel tariffs will result in a catastrophic trade war. So what? We have the largest economy in the world. If we quit buying products from other nations and produced them domestically we could provide employment for everyone and cosume the products here at home. Yes, prices would rise. But so would wages and taxes collected. 

It would take a while for the economy to stabilize. Some jobs would be lost (agricultural) but many more would be created (manufacturing). Of course we would still have to import some raw materials but we would still be exporting some materials like coal and energy.

Seems like a win-win to me. Can anyone point out the flaws in my logic?


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

We sold our steel mills and manufacturing base off to China or tore them down. It will take years to rebuild the infrastructure. It's not that simple.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I didn’ t say it would be simple. I said it would take time to reset the economy. Back in the 50s and 60s we produced what we consumed and the country was very prosperous. During the vietnam war era we decided to combat the spread of communism by exporting capitalism via encouraging companies to invest in foreign countries. This started the slide down the slope of exporting american jobs. I’ll grant you that yes, it would take a few years to rebuild our mills. So what?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

We The People voted in evil politicians who enacted regulations that drove up costs to produce steel.

In order to fix this, regulations need to be eliminated to lower costs to produce steel.

Enacting tariffs on foreign steel from entering the US will help US producers be more competitive in the short term, and produce more steel to satisfy the market demads of the USA putting more people back to work in the US vs supporting the chicom ***********...or at least that is the rationale. This may buy us some time to ramp up capacity.

The report below details some of the facts regarding Steel.

http://www.steel.org/~/media/Files/AISI/Reports/2017-AISI-Profile-Book.pdf


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

The process of producing steel used to be very dirty heavily polluting our air and water. We don’t use blast furnaces, coke ovens, and open hearths anymore. New methods are much more efficient and cleaner. But yes, our industries are subjected to much more regulation than the Chinese and other big steel producers. If we want a cleaner enviroment, we gotta pay for it! That’s what the tarriffs are for. I get a kick outa the elites boo-hooing about free trade but they want cheap shit produced in China and don’t give a rats butt about pollution over there. We all live on ONE planet so why is pollution here bad but pollution in China OK?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

OK OK, I realize that sometimes the simplest answer is the best so here goes...

The rest of the "World" thinks that if the US imposes tariffs on their products then it is a BAD IDEA.

That in itself makes it a GOOD IDEA for the USofA! 

Eff the rest of the world. :vs_wave:


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Slip, I like the way you think!


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

With new technology, updated plants can produce in under two hours what used to take an entire shift ar the steel mill. Our government, yeah the jackasses who known more than we do have sold us out for years suppressing and destroying the middle class. This trade war is long over do. America and Americans first. Employ our own people with decent jobs. Expand the middle class and cut poverty. Poverty will always exist but the less people in such misery the better. @Chiefster23 and @Slippy are hitting the nail on the head.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

I’ve been giving this subject a lot of thought. Let me give an example of why we need our own industries.
Our economic and government leaders have allowed our merchant marine and sealift capacity to all but disappear. During the first gulf war we could airlift our troops to the war zone but you can’t airlift sufficient quantities of tanks, vehicles, ammo, and all the other equipment it takes to fight a war. Our sealift capacity was woefully short. We had to charter foreign ships and crews to deliver a lot of our war material. Some got to the war zone and refused to enter an unload because they were afraid. WTF!

After this debacle the government decided it needed ships. So they went out on the market to buy them. But they had to buy some foreign built vessels because our shipyards were gone. So now we have some old, worn out clunkers in storage for emergency sea lift but we have few sailors left to man them. No merchant marine means no sailors! Duh!!!

Another example most here can understand. EMP is a real threat but we don’t have the capability to produce our own replacement electrical transformers. You think the new world order, socialist governments are gonna sell us transformers if we are wounded, down, and out?

Time for America to pull it’s head out of it’s ass and wake up. I have traveled the world and trust me, NOBODY LIKES AMERICA! We better start rebuilding our own industries and promoting our own markets or someday we are going to be in a world of hurt with NOBODY willing to throw us a lifejacket. JMHO


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

Chipper said:


> We sold our steel mills and manufacturing base off to China or tore them down. It will take years to rebuild the infrastructure. It's not that simple.


No, it won't be simple. But sometimes in order to have a positive result such as rebuilding and sustaining our manufacturing base that has been steadily dismantled since WWII, it will take time to rebuild. But to remain a world power we must be self sufficient.....manufacturing is a key component, whether these tariffs are the right path remains to be seen, but we must try......we always fear the unknown, and we are at that point....JMO....


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We are in a Trade war now , have been for many years. This one we are losings because we just given in. Trump is making a statement . The days of US rolling over to keep others happy are not going to continue .
Canada has been handing us the short end of the stick for a couple generation . Heck we subsidized their healthcare cost and drugs.


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## azrancher (Dec 14, 2014)

Chipper said:


> We sold our steel mills and manufacturing base off to China or tore them down. It will take years to rebuild the infrastructure. It's not that simple.


But, But, but... we tore them down because they were over 100 years old in many cases, build new, better, more automation etc.

*Rancher*


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

It is simple. When the commies, deep staters, rinos and other scumbags whine and cry that = good for America. I think that some of you forget that we live in the greatest nation ever to exist on the face of the earth. All things are possible with American will and ingenuity.


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## 0rocky (Jan 7, 2018)

I’m taking a historical viewpoint. Memory tells me Bush had a tariff on steel around 2002 and it was reversed. Did not have the desired results. Costs of goods will (I predict) climb. US steel producers (again me saying this) will raise their costs to just under the cost of foreign steel. So appliances, canned good, autos, I’m getting tired of typing, will cost more. 

Why you ask, will US steel producers raise their prices? Because we live in a capitalist system. Time will tell if I’ve got this right.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Yes, prices will rise. But more people will have jobs. More jobs means a better economy. Welfare rolls should go down. Tax income should increase resulting (hopefully) in deficit reduction. So yes, things will cost more. But we will become better off and more secure as a nation.

Another big benefit that no one else has raised yet. If we drastically reduce or eliminate our trade deficit with China, it will cripple the chinese economy. They have overbuilt their capacity to ridiculous levels. If we stop buying their goods, they are going to have a lot of people without jobs that they are going to have to deal with. Simply selling to other nations isn’t going to fill the void because we buy so much. So how are the chinese going to take care of a couple million unemployed without putting a serious crimp in their grand plan?


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Chiefster23 said:


> Ok. I am not the smartest person in the world...... but I am not stupid. I received a college education at one of our federal military academies but I need a little help here.
> 
> Some are predicting the proposed steel tariffs will result in a catastrophic trade war. So what? We have the largest economy in the world. If we quit buying products from other nations and produced them domestically we could provide employment for everyone and cosume the products here at home. Yes, prices would rise. But so would wages and taxes collected.
> 
> ...


We have been in a trade war with China, for a very long time now; they are an aggressive nation, with aspirations to be the big cahoona on the world stage. When Nixon went to China, Mao was in awe of America; because of its might, but they are not in awe anymore.

They mean to be a super power, and so far they have made big strides; and it has been at the expense of America. If it is true that Lenin said, "The capitalists will sell us the rope that we hang them with.", he was prophetic. We are in a fight for survival, but not everyone is in that fight.

We have people here in America who like the status quo, because it butters their bread. And they will be the ones who yelp the loudest about losing money; they are faithful to themselves, and not America.

Your argument is sound, it is a win-win for America if we take the fight to China. It should be considered self-preservation.

PS: congratulations on making it through an academy, I have read that they are exceedingly difficult to get into. And that it is even more difficult to graduate from them.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I have been saying this for decades.

Remember when Nikita K said"we will bury you!"?

The *****'s have been quietly proceeding on that path since tricki dickie was in office.

Removing our industrial capacity all but assures a defeat for us in any conflict.



chiefster23 said:


> i've been giving this subject a lot of thought. Let me give an example of why we need our own industries.
> Our economic and government leaders have allowed our merchant marine and sealift capacity to all but disappear. During the first gulf war we could airlift our troops to the war zone but you can't airlift sufficient quantities of tanks, vehicles, ammo, and all the other equipment it takes to fight a war. Our sealift capacity was woefully short. We had to charter foreign ships and crews to deliver a lot of our war material. Some got to the war zone and refused to enter an unload because they were afraid. Wtf!
> 
> After this debacle the government decided it needed ships. So they went out on the market to buy them. But they had to buy some foreign built vessels because our shipyards were gone. So now we have some old, worn out clunkers in storage for emergency sea lift but we have few sailors left to man them. No merchant marine means no sailors! Duh!!!
> ...


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

When you look at the plans China is making, it's a no-brainer for me....BE SELF SUFFICIENT...Period.

And that doesn't even count what Russia is up to.

Here are a couple of maps that show where China wants to build military bases....the String of Pearls...









This one shows where they are in relation to oil routes.


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## Robie (Jun 2, 2016)

Also....this is a perfect time to say this.

Lots of talk (always has been) about minding our own business...don't get involved with other countries...keep our money at home.

That all sounds great until you find out what other countries do if you are not involved.

And guess what? We just can't go in and bomb a Chinese base because it pisses us off that they did it.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

If American companies want to make steel and other metals, they will.
We always find a way--

This is a national defense issue!
How will we ever build ships, dams, bridges, etc. without making steel?
MAGA!


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

> Unhappy Canada Vows Retaliation For Steel Tariffs - NAFTA, Steel, Tariffs and An Introduction To Liu Zhongtian&#8230;





> "Should restrictions be imposed on Canadian steel and aluminum products, Canada will take responsive measures to defend its trade interests and workers," Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland said in a statement, calling any trade restrictions"absolutely unacceptable." (link)
> 
> The key word in that statement from Freeland is "products". Why? because Canada doesn't make more than a boutique amount of raw Steel. (Top 40 List) The Canadians, like the Mexicans, import the vast majority of their raw steel from China. Canada then fabricates products from the Chinese steel. This nuanced point is almost always lost on people who discuss trade. This point of origination is also the fatal flaw within NAFTA.
> 
> In essence Canada is a brokerage for Chinese manufactured material, and NAFTA is the access trade-door exploited by China for entry into the U.S. market. More on that in a moment. First watch Justin from Canada explain his country's position. (prompted, just hit play):


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/02/unhappy-canada-vows-retaliation-for-steel-tariffs-nafta-steel-tariffs-and-an-introduction-to-liu-zhongtian/


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Anything that brings back our manufacturing capabilities can not be bad. Particularly steel. We may need those capabilities soon.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Besieged at our ports


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

As all of you know, the dollar is losing its international primacy as the default reserve currency. When the dollar finally loses this special status, all imports will become much more expensive here. The economy will do a 180 degree turn; products made in the USA will be competitive with imports. With tariffs, yes, prices for targeted things will go up some immediately, but they would eventually anyway once the dollar loses its default status.

So, in the long term, we don't lose anything by imposing tariffs, -as long as those tariffs encourage manufacturing in the USA. I've long believed that economically, we've dug ourselves into a hole we can never honestly climb back out of. Less of a trade imbalance, more productivity, and higher employment might go a long way toward delaying the inevitable crash we will have to face someday, (if only our legislators would finally start spending the extra money wisely).


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