# Trauma Kits



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I went ahead and ordered this trauma kit with a couple of other items including some clotting sponges and compression bandages. 4.5 out of 5 stars with 325 reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003H2EODW/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Any more qualified folks have opinions related to the kit and what I may add in addition to what I mentioned above? I am a combat lifesaver trained along with the usual first aid and cpr. One of these days I will get the time to get my EMT training.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

It looked pretty good to me, the one thing I did not like about the bag was; the zippers appeared to be single toggles. I personally have only double toggles on all my bags, for redundancy and symetry and so that I can centre them and know that compartment is good to go, and opening to toggles at once is likes likely to make the bag slide on hard surfaces. Jmo.

As for it's contents, a FAK is just like any other tool, the best one is the one you have and know how to use.
Having said that, I would add chest seals, for obvious reasons. I would also add a king airway or combi tube, because in a real emergent situation, a Berman won't cut it. And lastly a bag/valve mask.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

jim-henscheli said:


> It looked pretty good to me, the one thing I did not like about the bag was; the zippers appeared to be single toggles. I personally have only double toggles on all my bags, for redundancy and symetry and so that I can centre them and know that compartment is good to go, and opening to toggles at once is likes likely to make the bag slide on hard surfaces. Jmo.
> 
> As for it's contents, a FAK is just like any other tool, the best one is the one you have and know how to use.
> Having said that, I would add chest seals, for obvious reasons. I would also add a king airway or combi tube, because in a real emergent situation, a Berman won't cut it. And lastly a bag/valve mask.


I appreciate the feedback and will look to add the items that you suggest.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

Most importantly though, look into EMT classes. I got mine the first time in a month. With NOLS, and my WFR as well. Increadible course.
One of my instructors was an Air Force PJ.
After that lapsed, I re-took the class at a tech school, six months just nights, and my instructor was a SWAT medic so I lucked out in the instructor dept. both times. If only my luck with woman and money was so good....


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

please I know what a CLS is I trained and certified many basically your one step above 1st aid. sorry but you have no idea how many times I have had to put them back in their place -yes they are an asset for minor crap like litter bearers, applying band aids or first aid dressings but I would never let one even try a valve clamp or venial cut down or something ever. 
so leave serious trauma to a professional and get you azz to the ER.
a bag valve mask -sure if you know what it is and how to use it.
J-tubes you better get some education before trying to use those things or you will kill someone trying to put one in next is chest seals -dude your not on a battle field no matter how big a fantasy you may have but ok you might need one for some reason.
and lastly if your the only one there how you going to treat yourself if you need your chest sealed and an airway installed whle being rececitated with a bg mask?
learn what the stuff is,what it is for and how to properly apply it then teach some one else(like a close friend or releative heck even your kids) how to use it.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

At least he put forth effort to get training. 
I get refresher training every August . I'm sure it's not up to the most discriminating standards but I'm sure it's more than a lot of people get. Or more than some ever had.
So kudos for attempting to learn.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

not saying it 's a bad thing.
just pointing out that too many times a person gets a little training and they think they can preform open heart surgery or something.
and would like to also point out that sometimes in medicine it get rather gross especially in emergency treatment, so if your squeamish do the best you can before you pass out.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Having the equipment is a good thing to have I think. You may not be medically trained beyond simple first aid. But you may come across someone who has the expertise in a grid down scenario that has lost his or her equipment. Not a bad investment I think.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I am aware of my limited training and need for more. I plan to address that.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

I did not so he should get a scapel and a head lamp and go to town did I?
I said above all get training, although the OP specifically asked for feed back on his kit. He never said it would just be him, giving aid to himself. 
I see the BVM as a majorly useful piece of equipment, because in a SHTF situation, anyone with half a brain can squeeze one, allowing the OP to other things. 
The king/combi tube is also good in the event your transporting the patient, it takes the mask seal out of the equation.
I realize EMT has major limitations, did I say it did not? No. But one must have EMT-B In order to move up to any of the ALM certs. 
An EMT cert and some improvisation training can go a long way. 
Climb down off your "advanced life support, quite or I'll hit you with a paralytic, I can stop bleeding and deliver babies with a syringe" horse and say something helpful.


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## artboy (Jun 22, 2016)

This site might be helpful??....nice first aid kids and trauma kits here..usually same items and cheaper than Amazon in some cases...I've ordered lots from these folks...very fast - great cust service...I built my BOB here...very helpful -- http://store.survivalist101.com/


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## tc556guy (Sep 9, 2015)

I use the same bag as my car medical bag.
Contents aside, I would say that organization of the contents will be important. 
Keep all like-items together, label the compartment with med tape and a sharpie so you're not searching for a particular item under stress 
Put your name and a last-inspection date on the front of the bag so that your own bag comes back to you when there are multiple med bags spread across a scene
The inspection date will prompt you to re-inspect and re-stock at whatever interval you select. I do an annual inspection.

As to the contents, I'm not going to get down in the dirt about one level of training vs another. Carry the stuff that you can use with your level of training.
If you want to carry stuff that exceeds your medical training, on the theory that maybe someone will be present who is trained to use that item, that's on you.
I was CLS trained for my deployments, but realistically I've been retired out for 4 years now.
I follow Clint's advice and know my limits as they are now.
I keep current on CPR, basic first aid and other medical issues that my LEO employer requires, and that's about it.

My main talking point about med supplies would be to carry far more than you THINK you need.
We aren't talking putting a Band-Aid on a boo boo.
We're talking about handling trauma with all of it's related body fluids loss.
You are going to go through gauze, combat dressings etc at a far faster clip than you might think possible, if you've never had to deal with it before.
The human body has an amazing amount of fluids in it when you see them leaking out at a fast pace.

If you aren't having to hump the bag, you can never have too many med supplies
Fill that thing up. Organize it. The contents are up to you. 
Keep a couple of hi vis chem lights stuffed into the thing because Murphy will pop up and you'll need to be digging through the bag on the darkest night of the year when your EDC light decided to go tits up on you
I also keep some EMT shears clipped to the bag where I know they'll be .


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

tc556guy said:


> I use the same bag as my car medical bag.
> Contents aside, I would say that organization of the contents will be important.
> Keep all like-items together, label the compartment with med tape and a sharpie so you're not searching for a particular item under stress
> Put your name and a last-inspection date on the front of the bag so that your own bag comes back to you when there are multiple med bags spread across a scene
> ...


I appreciate the feedback. I may not have an abundance of formal training, but thanks to time in Iraq, I am not void of experience. This includes treating head trauma and serious lacerations on two occasions (one being a civilian truck driver that crushed her cab-over onto herself), and one fairly serious stomach puncture of an Iraqi civilian. I do not care/need to get formal training for my work, but for personal knowledge and need.


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

Kits are nice, but the commercially sold bags have a load of crap you'll never use....ever! Proper training will give you the insight into exactly what you may need for the traumas or other medical situations you may come across. As was previously mentioned, White Knight syndrome can kill someone if you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing in many trauma situations.

Untrained folks using Kwik-Clot for example, can cause more damage than other methods of immediate treatment for intense hemorrhaging. (The military does not use the product any longer, due to their experience with it).

As an SF trained medic in my previous life (before I became a pilot), and with a wife who is a very senior military critical care and flight nurse, we have a very substantial kit at home, capable of total Golden Hour treatment and stabilization, but some of the items we would use are only for well-trained personnel....not first responders, or ARC first aid'er, and we are still missing items we are trying to acquire for potential use. 

By the way, if any of you guys are next deployed to Afghanistan...would you mind bringing me back some Poppy seeds that I can store long term, and grow when the SHTF to produce appropriate pain meds...... I had some that were lost in travel, damn it!


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

With all respect that bag is 139$, I can buy two CAT tourniquets, and a crap ton of wound packing materials for that price.
From what I learned in BCON _(Bleeding Control, this was a distilled version of the TCCC, Tactical Combat Casualty Care )_ training, 
Anything beyond a Tourniquet or wound packed with sterile gauze is pretty much going to require a surgeon.

If you haven't taken a BCON course I highly suggest it. Rita Bass Medical Institute up in Denver, CO
has a great course for about 35$ that you won't regret.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

RedLion said:


> I went ahead and ordered this trauma kit with a couple of other items including some clotting sponges and compression bandages. 4.5 out of 5 stars with 325 reviews.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003H2EODW/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Any more qualified folks have opinions related to the kit and what I may add in addition to what I mentioned above? I am a combat lifesaver trained along with the usual first aid and cpr. One of these days I will get the time to get my EMT training.


Thanks for this post, RedLion, . . .

Our VVA chapter just acquired a pretty substantial first aid / trauma kit, . . . having most of what you have in that bag, . . . and quite honestly, it was about the same price. We have been fortunate in that some 25 different guys have traveled an average of 20 miles each to honor fallen vets, . . . never an accident, emergency, etc.

We figured we were probably traveling on borrowed time so we got a kit together.

Wish I had seen this one, . . . would have made it a lot simpler.

And I'd just like to make a comment to all the naysayers that have piped up here, . . . you really need to find a hobby, . . . your negative and bombastic comments do nothing to add to the conversation, . . . they only assuage your negative personalities.

Having the equipment is the first and MOST IMPORTANT part of providing first aid / trauma care. Anyone with any training at all will do the best he/she can under the circumstances, . . . but if they do not have the tools, . . . they cannot do anything.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## artboy (Jun 22, 2016)

what dwight55 said sums it up~~ "
_*Having the equipment is the first and MOST IMPORTANT part of providing first aid / trauma care. Anyone with any training at all will do the best he/she can under the circumstances, . . . but if they do not have the tools, . . . they cannot do anything."*_ Better to have something to provide help than nothing at all??


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

artboy said:


> what dwight55 said sums it up~~ "
> _*Having the equipment is the first and MOST IMPORTANT part of providing first aid / trauma care. Anyone with any training at all will do the best he/she can under the circumstances, . . . but if they do not have the tools, . . . they cannot do anything."*_ Better to have something to provide help than nothing at all??


I dunno. If it is beyond the basics that I learned in the army, I'd just root around the kit, trying to find crimpers, luggers and a soldering iron. 
*Why is there no Pro-Seal in this stupid bag?!?! Bob has a gunshot hole that needs sealing!*


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

tc556 -good post dude, labeling and glo-sticks very important. same to Sitting elf -I agree -excactly.
sar-1 -splinting requires more then a turney -same with impaled objects. and also can you explain why you would need to pack a wound with gauze( you know like say for a car wreck?)-just asking dude and yes any training is priceless and most people would be better off spending 35 bucks on roller gauze and ace wraps than 135 on an advancedtacticalendofcivilizationtheraptureiscoming medical kit.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

And if most of us took the advice of some of the loud mouthed, . . . perfect opinionated personnel that think they know it all, . . . that "advancedtacticalendofcivilizationtheraptureiscomin g medical kit" just might become priceless in a multiple vehicle crash, . . . when the driver behind you just happens to be a trauma surgeon on his way to a tennis lesson.

Again, . . . it costs nothing to have it and not need it, . . . it is priceless when you need it and don't have it.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I appreciate all the feedback and opinions.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

artboy said:


> what dwight55 said sums it up~~ "
> _*Having the equipment is the first and MOST IMPORTANT part of providing first aid / trauma care. Anyone with any training at all will do the best he/she can under the circumstances, . . . but if they do not have the tools, . . . they cannot do anything."*_ Better to have something to provide help than nothing at all??


Medical gear is much like a gun, if you aren't proficient, then it does you little good.

I am all about skills, skills, skills. Cause when I know the mechanics of the "tools" that we use to solve problems then I can identify materials on hand with the same properties.
I agree ideally we always WANT to have the tools, however, we NEED the skills to deploy them effectively.



Medic33 said:


> tc556 -good post dude, labeling and glo-sticks very important. same to Sitting elf -I agree -excactly.
> sar-1 -splinting requires more then a turney -same with impaled objects. and also can you explain why you would need to pack a wound with gauze( you know like say for a car wreck?)-just asking dude and yes any training is priceless and most people would be better off spending 35 bucks on roller gauze and ace wraps than 135 on an advancedtacticalendofcivilizationtheraptureiscoming medical kit.


Well Medic, you probably know more than I do. But let me refer back to my BCON training.

The purpose of packing a wound is to stop the bleed, especially something that is a deep gash. If you apply pressure just over the surface, then you have the blood pooling inside the wound and leaking out the sides. Like a compound fracture, something one could commonly encounter in a severe motor vehicle incident, can have severed veins and arteries. That said your vein or artery is not as large as the surface area of the fracture. If you are packing the wound you are able to more effectively seal and apply pressure. Someone just throwing gauze on top is not stopping or slowing the source of the leak even with pressure.

In response to the impaled objects and splinting. A Sam splint is approx 10$ even after a couple CAT's and gauze for 139$ you would have enough left over for a couple at least.
Impaled objects can be treated with gauze wrap, just stabilize the object, and seal the wound surface around the object, if the object is not removed then it should aid in slowing the bleed and clotting.

But hey that is just the knowledge of an amateur, I always love learning new things, did I miss anything?

_p.s. tournequets are not effective on arm pits or the thigh's hip joint ( an area of angle ) or neck for this wound packing with direct pressure is preferred.
Additionally these techniques are meant for the arms and legs, severe trauma to the torso, requires a surgeon asap for best result. As in this region
the likely hood of damaged organs or internal bleeding is a good possibility and no amount of pressure external will likely seal internal bleeding._


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## tc556guy (Sep 9, 2015)

SAR-1L said:


> With all respect that bag is 139$, I can buy two CAT tourniquets, and a crap ton of wound packing materials for that price.
> From what I learned in BCON _(Bleeding Control, this was a distilled version of the TCCC, Tactical Combat Casualty Care )_ training,
> Anything beyond a Tourniquet or wound packed with sterile gauze is pretty much going to require a surgeon.
> .


So buy an M17 bag surplus for $25 and stock it as you're able to afford to. Honestly, I got my bag as a dumpster diving rescue when my unit tossed a few when they were issued new ones ten years ago, then filled it with my own stuff that had out-grown my surplus CLS bag at the time, then have continued to keep it stocked.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

nope, you got your bases covered SAR. only question I see is you will eventually have to remove that packing material -then what? 
and I say if there is no medical treatment center available any more and the person is banged up that bad -you know what's next.
about the maybe a trained surgeon will pick up your kit and save you -maybe -maybe not if the chit is that bad out in the world they might just scadoodle with you stuff and leave you be.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

something else you may or not know -you treat an injured person to the level of medical skill you have -so if you have none and you start treating major injuries other than just keeping the airway open and the person breathing you may face a serious lawsuit might even get charged with practicing medicine without a license ( don't try the good Samaritan law crap cause it doesn't cover you that far ). Now in a all civilization is gone as we know it what do you got to loose I guess nothing so go for it.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

artboy said:


> what dwight55 said sums it up~~ "
> _*Having the equipment is the first and MOST IMPORTANT part of providing first aid / trauma care. Anyone with any training at all will do the best he/she can under the circumstances, . . . but if they do not have the tools, . . . they cannot do anything."*_ Better to have something to provide help than nothing at all??





Medic33 said:


> nope, you got your bases covered SAR. only question I see is you will eventually have to remove that packing material -then what?
> and I say if there is no medical treatment center available any more and the person is banged up that bad -you know what's next.
> about the maybe a trained surgeon will pick up your kit and save you -maybe -maybe not if the chit is that bad out in the world they might just scadoodle with you stuff and leave you be.


So the instructor @ Rita Bass stated to the class I attended better to stop the bleeding and use papertowels even AS LONG AS IT IS STERILE, or sterile as possible, than for the person to bleed out.
The material can be removed, now the surgeon may be cursing and swearing at you, but, without stopping the bleeding you have a job for the mortician not the surgeon.

Once again having the right tools are always better than not having the tools, however I am extremely selective in my tool kits, and only pack what I can effective use.
The exception to this personally would be if I was operating with a fire team of 5 to 6 guys which I know of one which has combat medic training, 
and as requested team members carry specific equipment due to concern of running short.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

^^^^again when there is no surgeon>>>>+ -when a person goes into shock( cause-n effect; pour profusion of blood through the tissues) you do know that the bleeding drops to minimal even on a complete amputation.
I am not trying to burst your bubble SAR -just pointing out that doing more sometimes is not the best course of action each and every possible injury is different and there is no set of instructions only a brief outline for a reference and well sometime it can get you into a legal battle with the person you just saved. plus an excellent packing material is tampons they are designed to soak up fluids and are cheap, just some FYI.


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## SAR-1L (Mar 13, 2013)

Medic33 said:


> ^^^^again when there is no surgeon>>>>+ -when a person goes into shock( cause-n effect; pour profusion of blood through the tissues) you do know that the bleeding drops to minimal even on a complete amputation.
> I am not trying to burst your bubble SAR -just pointing out that doing more sometimes is not the best course of action each and every possible injury is different and there is no set of instructions only a brief outline for a reference and well sometime it can get you into a legal battle with the person you just saved. plus an excellent packing material is tampons they are designed to soak up fluids and are cheap, just some FYI.


Absolutely Medic, I won't ever have a 100% bullet proof answer ( no pun intended. ) that works for every scenario and you list some great points. So don't consider it bubble bursted, just great additional info that could be helpful to anyone on the forum


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

RedLion, bag looks good and I also applaud you for wanting to get EMT-B training. As I've said many times before when it comes to medicine it's all well and good to have all the fun fancy toys, but if you don't know how to use them they're pretty much worthless. Pre-SHTF a civilian probably doesn't have very much need for a lot of trauma gear. I work in a fairly busy urban EMS system and I only respond on major trauma's maybe 5-10 times a month if I'm lucky. The vast majority of my calls are medical not trauma in nature. Knowing how to treat medical issues is a lot more likely than traumatic injuries. Post-SHTF I'm sure there will probably be a lot bigger call for traumatic injury so it's good to have a good kit for it. To really prepare for SHTF make sure you know how to provide ongoing care as there may not be definitive hospital level care to bring your sick and injured to. A lot of what I and other EMS providers do is simply to stabilize patients for transport to a hospital so they can get the real definitive care they need. When there is no hospital available it's all on you, so remember that as well.


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