# You Make The Call (Cop versus hispanic kid)



## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

This incident happened about 4 blocks from where I grew up. The neighborhood in the video is fairly nice but head out to the main street and you'll find it dirty, graffitied, Mexican markets and plenty of places to wire money back to Mexico. If you drive up Ball Rd. about 6 blocks you'll run into Disneyland. Hope that gives you a fairly good idea of the area.

The basic story is this is an off-duty LAPD officer and he has been having problems with these kids in his neighborhood. One of the kids threatened to shot him (not knowing he's an officer) so the guy detains the kid. While holding the kid for Anaheim PD to arrive the other kids taunt him and one attacks him. The kids begin to circle him and close in so he draws his concealed weapon which causes the kids to back up. From what I can see in the video the kid he is holding tries to break loose and the officers uses his hand holding the gun to help hold him and the gun goes off firing into the ground.

I don't know police procedure well enough to know if this cop is in the right or not. What I do know is Anaheim has received over 500 complaints about the officer and as I type this hundreds (mostly kids) from the area are "protesting" in the streets. They are breaking things and blocking traffic. The PD is currently on tactical alert.

So, after watching the video, I'm curious as to what you guys think. Especially any of our resident LEO's.






Protests after video appears to capture off-duty LAPD officer firing gun during confrontation with teens - LA Times



> A day after an off-duty Los Angeles police officer fired his gun during a confrontation with a group of teenagers in Anaheim, videos purportedly showing the encounter spread online, prompting questions about the officer's actions.
> 
> No one was injured by the gunfire, but the footage - posted on YouTube and Facebook - sparked a flurry of phone calls and emails to Anaheim police, who are investigating the officer's actions.


You make the call!


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

Whatever the kid did that he felt was needed to hold on to him for wasn't worth the group confrontation.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

stowlin said:


> Whatever the kid did that he felt was needed to hold on to him for wasn't worth the group confrontation.


We only get to see what happens from where the video started. Something else went down before the video started. The article says the kid threatened to shoot him. It's quite possible it was only a few kids around when he grabbed him and then more arrived. It looks like they are walking home from school.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Cop was off duty. Kid wanted to go, he should have let him go. I know cops can make arrests off duty, but it is basically a citizens arrest. besides, he wants to arrest the kid who "threatened to shoot him" but does not arrest the kids who actually physically assaulted him? Abuse of power by police. I understand drawing the weapon at that point, but trying to drag a kid through a bush is horse shit, let alone with a gun in your hand. Negligent discharge shows just how poorly the officer is trained. 

I'm not saying the kids are right, but they do have a right to defend themselves and each other against a man who might be a cop, who is doing unethical, if not illegal shit.


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## Joe (Nov 1, 2016)

@Sasquatch The old guy with the crutch should have called for backup as soon as the incident started. I can understand the guy pulling his gun. He was outnumbered. He is just fortunate he didn't shoot anyone when the gun went off.


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## bgreed (Feb 26, 2014)

Confronted by a hostile group. My gun would have been out much sooner as they are a serious threat to my safety.

Seems the kids knew an awful lot about what could be done to them.

Finally if I'm going to detain someone they will be on the ground with my knee in their neck.

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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

The cop erred by holding the kid up and dragging him around. It looks bad and he is not in control of the situation. If his intent was to arrest the kid, he should have put him on the ground and stayed on top of him taking away his mobility and ability to talk back. If the rest of the crowd then threatened him, he would have been in a better position to manage his firearm.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

only 500 calls - and S CA - that's a miracle in it self .... the illegals will soon start shooting at everything even slightly law enforcement - the lame azz departments that think they can PR themselves out of the pending war are kidding themselves .... 

this scenario? .... the off duty should have filed the paperwork and had uniforms - maybe even SWAT - do the dirty work ....


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Those kids id not take this guy seriously until the pistol discharge. Even drawing the weapon did not scatter them, Trying to take that kid to ground and drawing in that crowd sooner would have been tricky also. That looks like an all around no win situation. While not department approved and legally a nightmare, that discharge dispersed that mob and made the situation manageable. Almost like some one called that there were free joints around the corner. It was a blessing no one was hurt.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

If I understand correctly, this isn't the first time these kids trespassed on to this guy's property, if they have the castle doctrine in that state, how far reaching is it?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The nice cop needs a pay raise and a promotion. Glad nobody died. He also needs a new place to live.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> The nice cop needs a pay raise and a promotion. Glad nobody died. He also needs a new place to live.


He's had round the clock police protection because he's been receiving death threats from the tribe members...uh, I mean citizens. So yeah, he's gonna have to move.

Sent from a Galaxy S5 far far away.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

This is one of those old cases of two wrongs don't make a right. This situation was preventable, they weren't trying to break in they where cutting across his yard. Any other private citizen would be chastised and told to "stay inside and let the police handle it." At that point in time he was a private citizen because this wasn't a part of his regular duties.

That being said the kids appear to be the typical punks that roam the streets today. There are no consequences for their actions, after all this the ones that managed to get arrested where cited and released to parents who rather than disciplining them for assaulting somebody after trespassing will coddle them and threaten to sue the police department.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

*NEW STORY DEVELOPMENT*

The kid seen in the video has a father. That father lives in AZ and has started a GoFundMe type page to pay for "costs". The only injury the kid suffered was a mark on his neck and he was only cited and released so I can't see there being much cost with that. The page has a goal of $10,000. which has already been passed.

Just my personal jaded opinion here but it sounds to me like an outta the picture father is trying to cash in on something that happened to his kid.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I was hoping every one of the scumbag la cookeraches was shot and killed which will save us TRILLIONS...


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Sasquatch said:


> *NEW STORY DEVELOPMENT*
> 
> The kid seen in the video has a father. That father lives in AZ and has started a GoFundMe type page to pay for "costs". The only injury the kid suffered was a mark on his neck and he was only cited and released so I can't see there being much cost with that. The page has a goal of $10,000. which has already been passed.
> 
> Just my personal jaded opinion here but it sounds to me like an outta the picture father is trying to cash in on something that happened to his kid.


Ya just had to go ahead and do it didn't ya? Now ..... you have pissed me off.


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## OakOwl (Nov 7, 2016)

Sasquatch said:


> *NEW STORY DEVELOPMENT*
> 
> The kid seen in the video has a father. That father lives in AZ and has started a GoFundMe type page to pay for "costs". The only injury the kid suffered was a mark on his neck and he was only cited and released so I can't see there being much cost with that. The page has a goal of $10,000. which has already been passed.
> 
> Just my personal jaded opinion here but it sounds to me like an outta the picture father is trying to cash in on something that happened to his kid.


I'm sure he needs a lawyer too.

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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

Castle doctrine is pretty far reaching. Actually though the kid when he threatened to shoot the cop that's criminal trespass right there and terrorist threat. AND they were on HIS property even in non castle states that's an offense. So we've got three charges before he ever touched that gun or kid. I am not one who likes any uninvited visitors myself and I always make them leave. Kids here though they aren't nearly as pig-headed and entitled as chumps from cali these days. The kids here walk when asked and don't lip off they some fairly well raised kids.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

All those future drug kingpins, street walkers, and pimps should be in a juvy center it seems to me, and I am willing to bet some will be eventually. I can see why the the cop was upset and I don't know what happened before the video but I am thinking he should have deescalated the situation and turned the brat loose. If after he turned the future prison inmate loose, if the "nice upstanding future leaders" of this country still pursued or went after the cop, then he could have presented his weapon. If the Juvenal delinquent threatened him he could have filed charges later. 

My final thought is lock all the little bastards up.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Jakthesoldier said:


> Cop was off duty. Kid wanted to go, he should have let him go. I know cops can make arrests off duty, but it is basically a citizens arrest. besides, he wants to arrest the kid who "threatened to shoot him" but does not arrest the kids who actually physically assaulted him? Abuse of power by police. I understand drawing the weapon at that point, but trying to drag a kid through a bush is horse shit, let alone with a gun in your hand. Negligent discharge shows just how poorly the officer is trained.
> 
> I'm not saying the kids are right, but they do have a right to defend themselves and each other against a man who might be a cop, who is doing unethical, if not illegal shit.


 Need to check the law. Off duty LEO has all the authority they have on duty. In or out of uniform here. This is the same old crap. Break the law they cause a seen so you get away with it. Nope hold on to him and if you have to drop one of those interfering so be it.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Need to check the law. Off duty LEO has all the authority they have on duty. In or out of uniform here. This is the same old crap. Break the law they cause a seen so you get away with it. Nope hold on to him and if you have to drop one of those interfering so be it.


I understand that this IS the law, I'm saying it shouldn't be. What the heck is the point of the uniform if I don't need to be in it to go arrest people? Guarantee if that kid had gotten his sneakers stolen on that guy's lawn, the guy wouldn't have done a damn thing about it. Being LEO does not make you right. I'm not saying the kid wasn't wrong. He probably was. But the cop had no legitimate grounds for grabbing and holding the kid. No judge who values justice would see the case. It would be hearsay, with all the kid's friends claiming it never happened.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Jakthesoldier said:


> I understand that this IS the law, I'm saying it shouldn't be. What the heck is the point of the uniform if I don't need to be in it to go arrest people? Guarantee if that kid had gotten his sneakers stolen on that guy's lawn, the guy wouldn't have done a damn thing about it. Being LEO does not make you right. I'm not saying the kid wasn't wrong. He probably was. But the cop had no legitimate grounds for grabbing and holding the kid. No judge who values justice would see the case. It would be hearsay, with all the kid's friends claiming it never happened.


 So we just give in to mob rule. Just like when a group of BLM fall about the place and cause disruption while they commit crimes. This is why we have the problem to begin with.
Madison Wisconsin punk High on drugs attacks LEO. LEO ends up shooting him. Feds refuse to charge LEO, State AG investigation show he did right . Another independent investigation clears officer. Don't madder City attorney play his family 3. 5 million in tax dollars. Biggest money making scam in the hood get one of your kids shot collect the cash.
Nope if the punks mess with me or mine they will pay. Punk life's don't madder.


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## OakOwl (Nov 7, 2016)

The kid could of shot the cop with the castle law. 

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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> He's had round the clock police protection because he's been receiving death threats from the tribe members...uh, I mean citizens. So yeah, he's gonna have to move.
> 
> Sent from a Galaxy S5 far far away.


The cop needs to move to Nocona, TX. I tried to get officer Wilson and the Z man to move there but dont think they took my advice.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)




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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> This is one of those old cases of two wrongs don't make a right. This situation was preventable, they weren't trying to break in they where cutting across his yard. Any other private citizen would be chastised and told to "stay inside and let the police handle it." At that point in time he was a private citizen because this wasn't a part of his regular duties.
> 
> That being said the kids appear to be the typical punks that roam the streets today. There are no consequences for their actions, after all this the ones that managed to get arrested where cited and released to parents who rather than disciplining them for assaulting somebody after trespassing will coddle them and threaten to sue the police department.


Not sure where the info is coming from on the laws..rules and regulations governing off duty cops in various jurisdictions and situations. Will say never heard of one which turned them into private citizens in certain situations. State cops in Texas for example are always on duty and legal to pack 24/7. Any employees who dont like it can go find another job. I couldnt hear the audio very good on the movie but the issue seems to involve the little hood rat threatened to kill the victim. Makes him eligible to be detained by anybody under either police authority or citizen arrest..which normally covers any felony or breach of he peace (which also covers a lot of territory..drunk driving or drunk in public for example..threats...fighting..assault etc.) so the cop is legal from all directions. Now whether that is sufficient to spare him from a bunch of future misery..I sorta doubt it.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> So we just give in to mob rule. Just like when a group of BLM fall about the place and cause disruption while they commit crimes. This is why we have the problem to begin with.
> Madison Wisconsin punk High on drugs attacks LEO. LEO ends up shooting him. Feds refuse to charge LEO, State AG investigation show he did right . Another independent investigation clears officer. Don't madder City attorney play his family 3. 5 million in tax dollars. Biggest money making scam in the hood get one of your kids shot collect the cash.
> Nope if the punks mess with me or mine they will pay. Punk life's don't madder.


No, I'm not saying to give in to Mob rule. I'm saying that he should have not gotten involved over a verbal "threat" to begin with, and there would have been no issue. If a random citizen had done this, it would have been a totally different issue despite being equally legal.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> Need to check the law. Off duty LEO has all the authority they have on duty. In or out of uniform here. This is the same old crap. Break the law they cause a seen so you get away with it. Nope hold on to him and if you have to drop one of those interfering so be it.


There is a lot of gray area there.

https://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/1682057-Off-Duty-Confrontations-Legal-Issues/



> Remember, while off-duty, an officer may be acting within the scope of his employment and under color of law, or he may simply be taking action as a citizen. The former gives rise to potentially having coverage through the employing agency whereas the latter may not. Just because someone is a police officer does not mean that they are acting under color of law. "&#8230; [T]he fact that an individual is a police officer does not render all of his actions to be under color of state law. Gibson v. City of Chicago 910 F. 2d 1510, 1516 (7th Cir. 1990). The United States Supreme Court has held that the 'acts of officers in the ambit of their personal pursuits are plainly excluded.' Screws v. United States 325 US 91, 111 &#8230;." McCloughan v. City of Springfield 172 F. Supp. 2d 1009, 1014-1015 (C.D. Ill. 2001).





> Yet another issue involved in off-duty confrontations is whether the confrontation occurred inside or outside of the officer's employing jurisdiction. The import of this question goes to the authority of the officer to lawfully take action as a law enforcement officer. What authority officers have when off-duty and outside of their jurisdiction varies from state to state.





> However, it would seem axiomatic that the condition precedent to this right is that the person the officer is arresting or otherwise confronting know,s or has reason to know that the off-duty officer is actually an officer. Some courts have considered this concept of whether or not officers have properly identified themselves as officers when off-duty (or for that matter when in plain clothes or when undercover). See, for example, Lyons v. Adams 257 F. Supp. 2d 1125 (N.D. Ill. 2003); Memphis, Tennessee Area Local, American Postal Workers Union, AFL-CIO v. City of Memphis 361 F. 3d 898 (6th Cir. 2004); Celmer v. Quarberg 56 Wis.2d 581, 203 N.W. 2d 45 (1973).





Sasquatch said:


> *NEW STORY DEVELOPMENT*
> 
> The kid seen in the video has a father. That father lives in AZ and has started a GoFundMe type page to pay for "costs". The only injury the kid suffered was a mark on his neck and he was only cited and released so I can't see there being much cost with that. The page has a goal of $10,000. which has already been passed.
> 
> Just my personal jaded opinion here but it sounds to me like an outta the picture father is trying to cash in on something that happened to his kid.


Well imagine that.

The kids where acting like punks and deserved more than they got. I'm curious of what happened that wasn't recorded.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Hanging onto the kid (acting like a potential molester) caused this is escalated. What would you have done if you rolled up on the scene and saw a civilian with a gun in one hand and a child restrained in the other


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> The kids where acting like punks and deserved more than they got.


acting like punks is not a punishable offense... no matter how much you might dislike the kids


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Hanging onto the kid (acting like a potential molester) caused this is escalated. What would you have done if you rolled up on the scene and saw a civilian with a gun in one hand and a child restrained in the other


I would pick out the good guy pretty quick and help get them little shit bags under control...but I am what they call old school. Nowdays they prob try to get them to shoot some hoops or something.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> I would pick out the good guy pretty quick and help get them little shit bags under control...but I am what they call old school. Nowdays they prob try to get them to shoot some hoops or something.


BS... he was pulling the kid..not holding him waiting on support.. he was pulling him.. almost like he was trying to get him into the house and molest him.

a Smart person would have know to not escalate the issue over what..... walking across a lawn....

if he had done that to my kid.. I would have kicked his ass up between his shoulder blades... I would have punished my kid later but nobody manhandles my kid for trespassing especially if he is trying to stop trespassing


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## OakOwl (Nov 7, 2016)

The cop looked like a crazy man dragging a kid across a bunch of yards. He attacked the kid without a real cause. He could of made up the kid saying stuff to justify him acting like a lunatic.

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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> acting like punks is not a punishable offense... no matter how much you might dislike the kids


I don't know if you saw all my posts in this thread but I basically took your position that the officer acted inappropriately, defiantly inappropriately when he pulled the gun. The kids however also where acting like punks and yet again the state had to step in and parent them because the actual parents are too busy setting up go fund me's to sue.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Yall are sillier than a tree full of ass holes..as we say down in Young County.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I don't know if you saw all my posts in this thread but I basically took your position that the officer acted inappropriately, defiantly inappropriately when he pulled the gun. The kids however also where acting like punks and yet again the state had to step in and parent them because the actual parents are too busy setting up go fund me's to sue.


how should kids act when one of their buddies is being pulled away from them towards a house...

here is the thing.. I hope some of you recognize that while we all watched the same thing... we have different view points... now imagine being there and your view is that of the kid being pulled because he was trespassing or acting badly...
now lets be real here. in order to charged with trespass you have to know you are trespassing and you have to refuse to leave

Some potentially helpful legal defenses include:

You didn't "occupy" the property (for certain kinds of trespass) . . . 
or you didn't actually obstruct or interfere with activity on the property (for other kinds); and
The property was not fenced or signed (for trespass as an infraction).

now there is an aggravated trespass which is a felony but it requires more then just walking across a lawn


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

There is one extra thing here that everyone seems to be missing. 
If I am trespassing on your land, and you stop me from leaving to have me prosecuted for trespassing, I am no longer trespassing. You just gave me permission to be on your property by telling me to stay.


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

Prepared One said:


> All those future drug kingpins, street walkers, and pimps should be in a juvy center it seems to me, and I am willing to bet some will be eventually. I can see why the the cop was upset and I don't know what happened before the video but I am thinking he should have deescalated the situation and turned the brat loose. If after he turned the future prison inmate loose, if the "nice upstanding future leaders" of this country still pursued or went after the cop, then he could have presented his weapon. If the Juvenal delinquent threatened him he could have filed charges later.
> 
> My final thought is lock all the little bastards up.


 Well, back in the day when men were men and women were ladies these aforementioned "punks" would have been taken around back and beaten with a rubber hose at an early point. They wouldn't exist. And liberals see the old west as a bad thing. Sheesh.


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## huntntrap (Feb 5, 2017)

The Canadian .02 on this situation.
Did the off duty officer ever present his badge, proving he was in fact he was an off duty officer prior to going hands on with a minor?
Because in all the videos of the situation I have seen thus far, I have not seen one where proper identification has been produced.
Any asshole can say he is an officer. I won't buy it until I see his badge.
Also does he have a conceal carry permit. Had that gun jammed down his waistband like any other banger I've ever seen.

The police are different from you and me: when they physically assault a 13-year-old and kidnap them and refuse to let go because they thought they heard a verbal threat, and then draw and fire a gun while surrounded by a bunch of kids, it is the bunch of kids who are questioned, some arrested, while nothing happens to the man who did the assaulting, kidnapping, and firing of the gun (so far, at least).

Where I come from walking across the front lawn of someone is not trespassing. Trespassing here occurs when someone enters an area that would otherwise be off limits. I.e fenced in back and front yards. This guy reminds of Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I done decided..if I get in such an scenario...I will start shooting off their penis's one by one. Tell em I was going for the X ring but missed and hit the gonads. That should work.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> I done decided..if I get in such an scenario...I will start shooting off their penis's one by one. Tell em I was going for the X ring but missed and hit the gonads. That should work.


I hope you get a pretty cell mate.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

bigwheel said:


> I done decided..if I get in such an scenario...I will start shooting off their penis's one by one. Tell em I was going for the X ring but missed and hit the gonads. That should work.


Aint worth it. A better solution would be to put up a nice tall fence, a faithful guard dog, and some nice signs that can be posted around on the outside of the fence that state no trespassing and beware of dog. It will only take one time and then the rest of the kids would learn to stay out of your yard.


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