# VA Coming for PTSD Vets.



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Some of you think I am a tinfoil hat nut job. Those of you who think this can take comfort in knowing you are part of a larger crowd. That's OK.

Some of those in that crowd are fellow vets who jumped on the PTSD bandwagon. Why not, they would tell me; the VA is going to up my disability!
Because, there's going to come a day when you are going to have to defend your sanity. There's going to come a day when they are going to come for you guns, that's why! This was back around 2006, when a bunch of the guys at the airfield decided to follow the lead of a government rep, who claimed his time in Iraq caused him to fly off at the handle, lose his temper and be depressed. At least six of them, two of them who had been out since the Vietnam war, got on that bandwagon and were declared victims of PTSD. The extra money was more than they could pass up.

I may be a tinfoil-hatter, but this is not my overactive imagination. Sure, feel free to tell me how there are facts I don't know from reading this article. Tell me how this guy is unstable. After all, he is a confirmed PTSD case, right?

Feds Drop Bombshell On Veterans! | RedFlagNews.com


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I have said this for a long time

If you feel "mentally unstable" people should be restricted from owing firearms you are a SHEEP

If you agree with this then you only need for your guvment to decide on who is mentally unstable and...... presto... you are a felon

The 2nd amendment applies to EVERYBODY and that includes all the population, not the specific populations that the government approves of.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The VA has joined forces with Obama in attacking veterans on every front they can. This is just another of their ways to do it.
It you remember DHS declared the number 1 threat to America to be Returning veterans. 
What better way to disarm people than just have them declared unfit no proof needed nothing they can do about it. The VA has done nothing to try and stop Obama's attacks on Veterans. They instead have worked with him to do it.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

PTSD is real. It is not something imagined, BUT it does not turn a Vet into a raging lunatic. What the V.A. and the present Administration is doing is making it so that Vets who do suffer from PTSD will not go for help because they are afraid that by doing so they will lose their 2nd Amendment RIGHTS for the rest of their lives. Obama has recently signed an executive order mandating that during background checks a persons mental health care be more closely examined. Since it is an executive order, which should only be germane to the executive branch of the government, it seems to me that the order is prmarily targeted at the V.A. and the Department of Defense. In other words, Veterans.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Since the PTSD disability rules were loosened at the VA several years ago lots of Vietnam vets I personally know have filed claims for PTSD in order to get a "service connected" rating and the accompanying monthly check.
I have steadfastly refused because I knew something like this was a very real possibility, and told my friends so. They all scoffed. You would think that Vietnam veterans, of all people, should know that the government lies and will screw you over in a heartbeat.
The VA can keep their damn money.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

PTSD is both real and fake.
You can not tell a fake but you can spot the real deal. Some of you know what I mean. It has been sold as a excuse for many things it is not.
You can't prove a negative, you can prove someone is affected by it but you can not prove they are not.
Out of 10 soldiers I have dealt with that were tagged as PTSD 2 I had no doubt it was the real deal 8 I was suspect. 
If you take a socially screwed up young drunk and send him off to war in many cases you end up with a slightly older socially screwed up drunk with another excuse and better training.
That said no one knows what makes one man snap and another not.


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## specknowsbest (Jan 5, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> PTSD is both real and fake.
> You can not tell a fake but you can spot the real deal. Some of you know what I mean. It has been sold as a excuse for many things it is not.
> You can't prove a negative, you can prove someone is affected by it but you can not prove they are not.
> Out of 10 soldiers I have dealt with that were tagged as PTSD 2 I had no doubt it was the real deal 8 I was suspect.
> ...


This, it should also be noted that there are severely differing levels of PTSD as well, from just being anxious around large groups to outright "Snapping" and regressing to muscle memory the moment somebody hears a gunshot. Honestly though, I've only seen a "Violent" PTSD incident once, the rest were largely depression, or social anxiety. To be honest though, the social anxiety is completely understandable, and something I never feigned to think anyone and everyone coming back from a deployment wouldn't at least suffer from in some minor way.

That said, to the original point of PTSD veterans being targeted, it's best to always seek help if you need it, but don't make yourself a target, like by making yourself financially dependent on your spouse. It's also best that, if you are diagnosed, you stay far away from the legal definition of "incompetent", largely by maintaining your own finances, still having loans or credit cards in your name, and a working job, even if it's just a minimum wage job, it proves your competence.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

You know, there is a consequence for everything in life you do. Sometimes its a bad one and sometimes its a good one and sometimes it can be both. Things that often look good on paper initially will often have a unintended consequence...this would be one of them. A lot of folks thought a few more bucks tax free would be a good fat cat to ride, now get to pay a mighty high price for that ride, a lot more than they got out of the deal. Its kind of hard to feel much in the way of sorry for them. Anytime you walk on water, its the chance you take that the ice wont break. There just aint no free rides in this world, everything has a price.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I didn't mean this to be a question of whether PTSD is real. There is no doubt it is. I've known a couple of people who were debilitated by the horrors of war. One couldn't get the sounds of screaming Japanese soldiers out of his head, and the screams didn't allow him to get any real sleep. After a couple of open heart surgeries, his body still gave out.
Understandable that he would have issues, as he operated a flame thrower during WWII.
The other case was that of one of our platoon sergeants who snapped while we were exercising in Hoehnfelz, Germany. It was December, and some guys were singing Christmas carols in the tent. The platoon sergeant grabbed his gear and hit the woods. Took over a day to locate him and bring him back. The Christmas carols triggered something that was related to something that happened in Vietnam. He was a good platoon sergeant, beforehand, but he was medicaled out.

I believe this particular case is just the opening shot against the veterans who are on the rolls as being PTSD. This old gentleman who has PTSD to the point that it interferes with his daily life, is low hanging fruit. All of our brothers in arms who figured they'd jump on the money train, however, have placed themselves on a roster they didn't figure. 

What about those who aren't looking for a check, but are just looking for someone to talk to about depression, anxiety and sleepless nights after returning from the Corporate Wars? Veterans, trained Americans who have the ability to take a stand. 

On the way to work the other afternoon, I heard a radio ad by the V.A., begging vets and those who know vets to make the phone call for those who they think are having issues but won't call for themselves. Sounds benign, even compassionate, doesn't it?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Denton said:


> What about those who aren't looking for a check, but are just looking for someone to talk to about depression, anxiety and sleepless nights after returning from the Corporate Wars? Veterans, trained Americans who have the ability to take a stand.
> 
> On the way to work the other afternoon, I heard a radio ad by the V.A., begging vets and those who know vets to make the phone call for those who they think are having issues but won't call for themselves. Sounds benign, even compassionate, doesn't it?


You bet your sweet life PTSD is real. Very real.
Do not, I repeat DO NOT call the VA "crisis hotline". That is a fast track to losing your rights.
As far as your first question - In the early 1980's when so many Vietnam veterans needed someone to talk to, we formed our own "Rap Groups" within Vietnam Veterans of America. The response was so great, the need so large, VVA successfully lobbied congress and got the Vet Center program started. It was under the VA umbrella, but totally separate from the VA both physically and staff wise. I was a "client" there and it helped me greatly, without taking the VA drugs or filing for an official diagnosis. As far as the VA itself knows I just got "Readjustment Counseling".:mrgreen:
The Vet Center program has since expanded to offer counselling to combat vets of all wars.
I urge all combat vets to read the list of PTSD symptoms and see if the apply to you. And if they do, and you want help, find a Vet Center near you and see if you think they could help. I would avoid a regular VA clinic myself.
Locations can be found at
Vet Center Home


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Montana Rancher said:


> I have said this for a long time
> 
> If you feel "mentally unstable" people should be restricted from owing firearms you are a SHEEP
> 
> ...


I agree with you almost, I do not think people such as violent paranoid schizophrenics should have steak knives much less guns. The governments attempt to extend the mentally defective label needs to be stopped cold, but the worst batshit crazy people should be prohibited from owning guns. The law says adjudicated mentally defective, that requires a court ruling in every individual case not just some idiots opinion.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

How many have already forgotten that VA claims representatives were being paid Huge bonuses for rejecting claims for all types of injuries.
How soon we forget when it come to this administration.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> How many have already forgotten that VA claims representatives were being paid Huge bonuses for rejecting claims for all types of injuries.
> How soon we forget when it come to this administration.


This is true. VA employees were given bonuses for "resolving" cases. Even if the cases were "resolved" by just denying them without even reading them. 
Pure "government in action" - charges that a two + year case backlog is wrong brings promises to "resolve" the back log. Hey everybody!! Look!! We resolved thousands of cases, and lessened the backlog! We listened to the American people!!
Gee whizz! Ain't Obama great?

Meanwile, it's business as usual at the VA (VA moto: "Deny, deny, deny. Until you die")


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

It won't likely be the VA that comes for a veterans right to keep or bear arms. It will likely be a state that has gained access to VA records. 

This is slightly off topic but has been bugging me since I learned of it. I can't be too detailed because I doubt there are a lot of cases like it and using individual cases as a policy decision for all isn't good policy - I know that but ignoring bad cases and not insuring the policies and procedures are right is also stupid. In the case I'm referencing a young man served our nation in Iraq or Afghanistan in the last 10 years for a short period of time. He was involved in a violent combative incident and discharged, but did not seek help for PTSD or anything else. Some time later (I dont' know if its 2 years or 5) he was arrested on a narcotics violation for something well beyond MJ that our society has determined is prohibited. He gave up his source and got a probationary state, and in the effort also claimed "PTSD" made him do it. The judge asked for his VA records and he had none because he persued none. This event of his arrest/plea/conviction was revolved around a hospital visit since he "OD'd" on the narcotic and as such was instructed to head to the VA for help. He was diagnosed with PTSD even though the majority of his "problem" was abusing drugs. The VA got him into a rehab program (he quit), the VA got him into a counseling program for PTSD, he quit, the VA got him into a job training program, he quit. Yet he constantly bothers the local VA for his $4,100 a month disability check. The last time he was asked to attend a jobs program he was too busy watching a kungfu movie and smoking MJ. And yet $4100 a month of our governments money goes to this "VET." I have no sympathy for this.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

These days any visit to the VA Hospital is like being bated into admitting some sort of mental or emotional issue. My last visit I was concerned with some numbness and swelling that wouldn't go away. My doc's first question was if it was having any affect on my relationships with family and friends. 

I told him I was pretty sure they didn't feel it no matter how swollen it got. Then he asked if I thought I needed to talk to someone about the level of daily pain I have on a daily basis. I answered, "I thought I just did"?

They love me there, really they do.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Anyone else just sickened by this? I know you veterans are, and I understand..But It makes me sick. If having PTSD is a open reason to start questioning our gun rights, well I never went to war, but I have lost friends in the fire department, and have seen some terrible things. If the gov't decides thats PTSD enough to take my rights? I mean, once this door is open...Who's to say "oh, you witnessed a car crash..Death, You are now unstable"
Rigged for Quiet- I wish judges, lawyers and politicians had to get their medical help from the VA. It would be a better place, they would make sure of it...BASTARDS.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The medical staff of the VA is not a problem. I have never had any problems at the Clinic/Hospital level from the health care providers. They are understaffed and over worked, however.
My beef with the VA is the bureaucratic desk jockies who wield immense power with the stroke of a keyboard. And it is not any exaggeration at all to say that immense power can be at a level of life or death


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

After my stint I worked at two different VA hospitals (GI bill). One was assisting the vet benefits guy. When I started he had six hundred active cases and no help other than two part time workers.
The guy was a vet and ended his career when he was hit and sandwiched between his truck and a car he had stopped to help. Lost both legs. When I finally got to see him, he asked for all the different forms he would need and said he would help the new guy out as he recuperated.
Hell of a nice guy.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The medical staff of the VA is not a problem. I have never had any problems at the Clinic/Hospital level from the health care providers. They are understaffed and over worked, however.
> My beef with the VA is the bureaucratic desk jockies who wield immense power with the stroke of a keyboard. And it is not any exaggeration at all to say that immense power can be at a level of life or death


 This is pretty much it.
Medical care at the VA was not like service at a rich mans hospital but it was good care. The top people at the VA have been replaced or put under the thumb of very anit Military people. They now go along to get along.
This administration has been paying outrageous bonus payment to Workers to reject and tie up VA claims . Soldiers are being told to go to their own health care to get help first. Little know fact Obama opened up VA treatment centers to treat NON veterans with VA funds.
Time to wake up. But most will not and they surely don't care.
If you are injured in theater you are required to go to some type of counseling how much and how detailed depends on who is assigning it and the injury.
They are now trying to use that against you as have had mental health problems. Private sessions with Chaplains are now being made part of the record.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

No, guys I was NOT knocking the staff or doctors, I was in Alb just last month, at the VA, and I witnessed a great young phisical therapist work with my moms fiance. I just mean that "how much better off it would be if they (politicians and judges, anyone paid by OUR taxes) had to use only that facility".


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## Arizona Infidel (Oct 5, 2013)

I knew this was coming. These people are very successful in their agenda of destroying this country and making it into something else.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

By executive order Obama has decreed that when a background check is done on someone who is buying a firearm, their mental health care records be more closely examined. This is NOT for people who have been committed to mental institutions or found not guilty of a crime due to insanity, but if an individual has been "treated" for a mental problem. Executive orders are supposed to apply only to the executive branch of the Government and are not supposed to supersede the law, but that line has been crossed for a long time, but this order affects Departments like the DOJ or the V.A. most strongly since they do fall under the Executive branch.

Yes this can affect Vets being treated for PTSD, who because of said treatment might have their 2nd amendment Rights taken away, but I think that many don't realize just how insidious this can be. This could mean that Vets who only go to a support group. How about someone who loses a spouse so they go to a support group to help them through this rough period of time? They too could have their Rights taken away from them. I don't know about other people who retired from the Military, but for me there was a couple of months where it was something like culture shock for me to go from being an NCO with a mission and the respect to someone who no longer had those. It wasn't very serious, was only periodic, and once I was established in my new career and learned the ropes, I quickly got over it, but I am sure that there are many who for at least for a small period of time would benefit from some counseling or a support group. They too could have their rights taken away.

The result of this is that people will just stop going to any type of mental support or counseling. What should worry Vets is the next step will be the push that if you were in combat they will assume that you have some type of mental problem so therefore should not be able to own a firearm. Who is at the top of DHS's list of likely homegrown terrorists? VETS!


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