# STANAG-compatibility for handgun and rifle ammo (or there are other ideas)?



## Folklore (Apr 6, 2021)

Do you think you need to choose a weapon for survival in accordance with NATO standards such as STANAG (Standardization Agreement)?
For example:

STANAG 4090 (9x19mm, Parabellum or Luger)
STANAG 4172 (5.56x45mm, .223 Remington)
If the army has many such things, then such things should be much during any crises, isn't it?
For North America preppers, I would look at the kit consisting of at least the rifle, pistol and revolver.
Would you prefer this option under NATO standards?
Although the choice of 9x19mm revolvers does not shine a variety, but there is something.
But the unification of ammunition for the pistol and the revolver seems tempting.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm a collector, have weapons in 22 different calibers and gauges.
But, for a rural guy like me, a .357 magnum lever action rifle, and a double action .357 magnum revolver would be a great combination.
Now, if I could just figure a way to piut a bayonet mount on my Winchester.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I got a Mini 14 because it fired the 5.56 NATO, which is the standard Army round: plus I got a .45 1911 Colt for its reputation, and it was the standard Army issue, at the time.

Right now,I still have the .45 ; plus a .40 , with a .357 Magnum. I am on my 3rd revolver chambered in .357. 
And I haven’t cared about what the Army was doing, for a very long time. It is a good guide, but that’s about it.

In revolvers, if I do anything, it will be to upgrade to a .454 Casull. Because if Antifa or any criminal organization wants a piece of me, then I want a piece of them right back. I figure that a .454 or a 12 gauge should do that.🤔🤠

PS: a 9mm revolver would be a good weapon, and I like the idea. But a .327 Federal / .44 Special / .357 Mag. would be my choice. Probably with a 4” barrel.💀☠


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Folklore said:


> Do you think you need to choose a weapon for survival in accordance with NATO standards such as STANAG (Standardization Agreement)?
> For example:
> 
> STANAG 4090 (9x19mm, Parabellum or Luger)
> ...


IIRC, the standards are for said ammunition, not the weapons using it.
Yeah, having weapons the use NATO standard ammo is fine, 95% of mine do.
You are better of with it, more consistent across the board.
You will find if you obtain any 9 MM NATO ammo it you will find it slower than commercial +P stuff.
IF you find any old 9 MM that says for subguns only, do not shoot in a pistol, wayyyy too hot.
I ignore STANAG specs, too many here do use it as a marketing ploy.


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## Nick (Nov 21, 2020)

Most of my firearms are "standard" calibers mainly because that's what you usually see for sale. Odd caliber guns are usually hard to find ammo for at all (especially now), never mind during an extended SHTF scenario. And when you can find them your going to pay more for them.

That doesn't mean I don't/wouldn't buy guns that are non-standard calibers. I just try and make sure I have plenty of ammo for them.

The same goes for all my guns. I wouldn't want to be stuck trying to find ammo during when SHTF. Even if you can find it what would you have to give up to get it. I believe in an extended crisis that ammo will probably become the most valuable resource there is, no matter the caliber.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Run a S&W 629 and Marlin 1894 in 44mag. Don't want to shoot things 2-3 times with a 9mm or 556.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

5.56 and 9mm are my primary rifle and handgun calibers. With that said, I have a others for redundancy and also because other calibers are superior to both for certain things.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I standardized on the most common rounds. 5.56, 9mm, 45, 12 Ga. 00, and 308. Not to say I don't have other calibers but those are by far my most heavily stored. If I can't get it done with 5.56, 45, 9mm, and 308 I am in the wrong fight.


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

At 66 years old, I am no RAMBO. Living out in the country, I try to fit in with the locals. An 870 or a lever gun in the pick-up, a 357 revolver on the hip. Nothing to raise anyone's concern. After dark the 40 glock and 12Ga riot gun are pulled out. 22, 223, 308 bolt guns as needed. New Mexico is an open carry state.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Captjim_NM said:


> At 66 years old, I am no RAMBO. Living out in the country, I try to fit in with the locals. An 870 or a lever gun in the pick-up, a 357 revolver on the hip. Nothing to raise anyone's concern. After dark the 40 glock and 12Ga riot gun are pulled out. 22, 223, 308 bolt guns as needed. New Mexico is an open carry state.


I really like your choice of guns.

I’m no Rambo either, but I walked 12 miles yesterday, and part of that was during a cloud burst; which added considerably to the tenor of things, so I hid inside of a Porta Potty. 

In retrospect maybe there is a touch of Rambo in me, or a bit of John Wayne playing the Green Beret.

Yeah there might be a bit of that left in me.🤓🤡That’s me right there, Bonzo the wanna be Green Beanie .☠💀. I’m tough I tell ya.🙃😎. I’m 65 years old, if you can believe it.

PS: I had some guy about my age, sneer at me yesterday at the flea market. I was wearing shorts with a pair of Cochran’s combat boots. And I looked like a drowned rat, because I got rained on. Ah...life can be fun.
I had a PLA style chest pouch, and a Pony Express style leather bag on my shoulder. 

PSS: I went to a Vietnamese booth and got a sandwich, and they could not have been more gracious.
God Bless them for their kindness.


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## Piratesailor (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm a collector, have weapons in 22 different calibers and gauges.
> But, for a rural guy like me, a .357 magnum lever action rifle, and a double action .357 magnum revolver would be a great combination.
> Now, if I could just figure a way to piut a bayonet mount on my Winchester.


duct tape.....


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

For those who may be unaware, 308 Winchester is also a NATO round, 76.2X51,

most common is the M80 Ball.

Prior to the ammo hoarding you could buy it at around a dime each.

That round is my third in largest quantity, 

the 5.56 and 7.62X39 are in front of it.

The Indonesian and Spanish M80 has been outstanding for accuracy.

It is clean burning, better than Radway Green IMHO.


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## Folklore (Apr 6, 2021)

Thank you all for useful information.
I did not want to say that NATO's ammunition is better than what you use.
My question appeared this is why ..
Just in the summer of 2020, I heard that weapons and ammunition sales increased in the United States. 
They even reported that some retail networks could not provide requests and began to work on pre-orders.
Then I began to be interested in and saw this statistic. 
For example










rice paddy daddy said:


> But, for a rural guy like me, a *.357* magnum lever action rifle, and a double action *.357* magnum revolver would be a great combination.





MisterMills357 said:


> But a .327 Federal / *.44 Special* / .357 Mag. would be my choice.





Chipper said:


> Run a S&W 629 and Marlin 1894 in *44mag*.


At first I thought just about the unification on the basis .357 and .44...
But then I decided to ask what ammunition in North America are available in most retail stores. 
And is not related to the availability or inaccessibility of these ammunition with what preferred to have in the army or police.


SOCOM42 said:


> I ignore STANAG specs, too many here do use it as a marketing ploy.


It seems that this explains the appearance of statistics as in the picture.


Nick said:


> I wouldn't want to be stuck trying to find ammo during when SHTF.


Yes, this is the reason for my question.


MisterMills357 said:


> plus I got a .45 1911 Colt for its reputation, and it was the standard Army issue, at the time.


And what a romantic story with a reputation?


Captjim_NM said:


> Living out in the country, I try to fit in with the locals.


And sellers try to fit into the needs of local?


Captjim_NM said:


> At 66 years old, I am no RAMBO. ... New Mexico is an open carry state.


Well, right ... According to the legend, Rambo seems to be from Arizona ))


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Folklore said:


> Thank you all for useful information.
> I did not want to say that NATO's ammunition is better than what you use.
> My question appeared this is why ..
> Just in the summer of 2020, I heard that weapons and ammunition sales increased in the United States.
> ...


You lost me with the Rambo allusion: but the calibers that I listed, or any tried and true caliber, are acceptable to me.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Piratesailor said:


> duct tape.....


Weldmans Household Cement is great stuff, just use it with the duct tape, for a real good grip.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> For those who may be unaware, 308 Winchester is also a NATO round, 76.2X51,
> 
> most common is the M80 Ball.


True to a degree, but different as well. 7.62x51 has a thicker case wall, while .308 is a higher pressure or hotter round. It is ok to shoot 7.62x51 out of a rifle chamber for .308, but not always the reverse in shooting .308 out of a rifle chambered for 7.62x51. It is wise to pause if considering shooting .308 out of a military rifle, such as an M14 or an M1 Garand rechambered for 7.62x51 as military rifles tend to have a longer chamber/head spaced longer.


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## Folklore (Apr 6, 2021)

MisterMills357 said:


> You lost me with the Rambo allusion





Spoiler: Blame, Sir!


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

RedLion said:


> True to a degree, but different as well. 7.62x51 has a thicker case wall, while .308 is a higher pressure or hotter round. It is ok to shoot 7.62x51 out of a rifle chamber for .308, but not always the reverse in shooting .308 out of a rifle chambered for 7.62x51. It is wise to pause if considering shooting .308 out of a military rifle, such as an M14 or an M1 Garand rechambered for 7.62x51 as military rifles tend to have a longer chamber/head spaced longer.


I am well aware of the case differences. Just look at the head stamp for the ID of them.
Now, I am not sure of what you are trying to say about the chamber in the M1's.
They are reamed to 7.62 NATO specs not 308 win specs, is that what you are saying?
Seven of my M1's are in NATO and are chambered as such, I know, I did them. 
I also do 308 winni in match and sniper rifles, different reamers.
The 308 winni chamber will cause many problems without frequent cleaning.
The NATO chambers are for heavy brass cases and dirty chambers,
they (chamber)work well with all of them, M14, FNFAL, M1 and others.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> I am well aware of the case differences. Just look at the head stamp for the ID of them.
> Now, I am not sure of what you are trying to say about the chamber in the M1's.
> They are reamed to 7.62 NATO specs not 308 win specs, is that what you are saying?
> Seven of my M1's are in NATO and are chambered as such, I know, I did them.
> ...


Saying what you did not. 

Chamber Design: Perhaps the real difference between the .308 Winchester cartridge case and the 7.62 NATO case is the chambers they are specifically designed for. Typically, military rifles are made with slightly longer chambers (longer headspace). This is to help insure fast, easy feeding and ejection through rapid-fire sequences (i.e. auto-fire). The published difference in this headspace between the two cartridge cases is approximately six-thousandths of an inch – small, yet, significant. Bearing in mind that the .308 Winchester is specified for a ‘hotter’ powder load than that of the 7.62, firing it in a chamber with the added headspace will stretch the brass much more than the lower powder load 7.62. With a thinner brass wall design, the results may lead to an over-stretching (i.e. case ruptures, etc.). In summary, the biggest difference between the .308 Winchester cartridge case and the 7.62 NATO cartridge case is with the chambers they are designed for. Manufactured .308 Winchester and 7.62 NATO rounds can safely and effectively be fired in rifles design for .308 calibers, but manufactured 7.62 rounds should be shot only within rifles designated for 7.62 calibers.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Saying what you did not.
> 
> Chamber Design: Perhaps the real difference between the .308 Winchester cartridge case and the 7.62 NATO case is the chambers they are specifically designed for. Typically, military rifles are made with slightly longer chambers (longer headspace). This is to help insure fast, easy feeding and ejection through rapid-fire sequences (i.e. auto-fire). The published difference in this headspace between the two cartridge cases is approximately six-thousandths of an inch – small, yet, significant. Bearing in mind that the .308 Winchester is specified for a ‘hotter’ powder load than that of the 7.62, firing it in a chamber with the added headspace will stretch the brass much more than the lower powder load 7.62. With a thinner brass wall design, the results may lead to an over-stretching (i.e. case ruptures, etc.). In summary, the biggest difference between the .308 Winchester cartridge case and the 7.62 NATO cartridge case is with the chambers they are designed for. Manufactured .308 Winchester and 7.62 NATO rounds can safely and effectively be fired in rifles design for .308 calibers, but manufactured 7.62 rounds should be shot only within rifles designated for 7.62 calibers.


You are right, way to much for me to type!
I do hunt and peck at about one word a minute.


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