# An Ammo Barter Debate



## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

NO: 

It comes back and kills you - pretty clear isn't it.


YES:

It will have value.
You have to trust someone.


It is an interesting debate. Our group is openly 
debating it now. I don't know which side I'm on.
I mean its pretty clear you don't offer ammo to 
a street gang. However I could see exchanging
it with members of our church prepper group.

Is there any case in which you'd barter ammo?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I could never barter ammo to a stranger. And I'm not sure about a friend. They would have to be a really old, tried and true friend.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

paraquack said:


> I could never barter ammo to a stranger. And I'm not sure about a friend. They would have to be a really old, tried and true friend.


Lets try the opposite. Would you give someone
an asset you had an abundance of for ammo?

While I tend to believe 99.99% of this forum would
never need ammo.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

I would trade an Ammo that I am overstocked on or that I have reloading capability for for a needed medical item or a repair/replacement part for a needed system


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Me? NO, never!

SHTF and the stresses it will cause will change everybody's psychological makeup.

Those you trust now may be a deadly threat post SHTF.

All strangers are and will be a deadly threat, only them and theirs will matter to them at everybody's else's expense.

Never give away what can do you harm, including food.

You hand out food to anybody and you will become an instant target for the rest of your stores.

Sounds un-Christian, greedy, selfish? NO, it is a pragmatic evaluation of the human animal.

Remember I spoke of the 65 Watts riots in another thread? 

Those people turned into F'N animals, and they still had food and other social support.

What they did understand was, 30/06, 38 special and 45 ACP.

How do you think unter humans like that would act without any form of restraint or social support????

A SHTF, WROL incident will reduce all affected to a lower level of social order, most will revert to a base level, 

pathological thugs with no morality, just a base level drive for existence.
.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

No way to know sitting in the here and now. If the time comes that this, along with many of these hypothetical bridges, needs to be crossed it'll be in real time with the actual information at hand.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

SOCOM42 said:


> Me? NO, never!
> 
> SHTF and the stresses it will cause will change everybody's psychological makeup.
> 
> ...


Good points. Hope you don't mind I play with the debate question
a little. What of pre or post SHTF periods? You know when its not
totally fallen apart or did and is in a state of recovery? I agree with
all of your points during a deadly period of SHTF. Unless we are
struck with an emp, natural disaster, something overnight we're 
likely frogs getting boiled. The water is going up, things will be
bad but not yet deadly, is there a period when ammo barter would
still be feasible? And again would you take ammo in trade?


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Hemi45 said:


> No way to know sitting in the here and now. If the time comes that this, along with many of these hypothetical bridges, needs to be crossed it'll be in real time with the actual information at hand.


Thus you believe in some circumstances it would be 
reasonable to trade ammo, but in some it won't be? 
That is reasoned.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

@Stocton has a situation where it is inside of a group that is interdependent on each other. Being as they are a small community that props up each other it’s different from bartering with a stranger or public market. I believe that this may be something that would have to be considered. What would you do if attacked and someone in the group ran low or out of ammo? Tough crap or toss them a bandolier? If your tossing them a bandolier, obviously your trusting some part of your security to them so ammo barter with this type of individual could not automatically be ruled out. JMHO.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

If its more "The Road" than "The Postman" then it could be dicey to barter anything anytime ...


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Hemi45 said:


> No way to know sitting in the here and now. If the time comes that this, along with many of these hypothetical bridges, needs to be crossed it'll be in real time with the actual information at hand.


I agree. For starters, I can not predict what the SHTF event will be and how it will play out. I can also see trading ammo for something else that I need or a loved one needs. Of course this bartering would occur in a controlled situation/environment that I would be comfortable with. This would likely be away from my home/bol and with appropriate security. With this said, I would not trade with most people and in most circumstances. Certainly not with anyone that I had any misgivings about.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

SOCOM42 said:


> unter humans


Untermensch, that's funny.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

It's especially funny when referring to the Brown Dwarf hordes swarming over our southern border ...


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Stockton said:


> Good points. Hope you don't mind I play with the debate question
> a little. What of pre or post SHTF periods? You know when its not
> totally fallen apart or did and is in a state of recovery? I agree with
> all of your points during a deadly period of SHTF. Unless we are
> ...


Right now we are sort of in between so to speak, even now I would not give out my ammo.

If a possible event was on the horizon and known about, incoming, yes, outgoing, never.

Would I take ammo in trade for something right now? yes,

but it would be ammo I would use, still sealed in its original cans.

If there was a nuke strike on us by fat boy, I would worry about a societal breakdown from it.

Never reloads from anybody.

The biggest problem is the quality of whatever type you would take in, even new stock/ new old stock.

I do take some in as part payment for gun work I do at times.

I really don't need any more than what I already have,

statistically I could not shoot .001% of what I have without getting killed.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

KUSA said:


> Untermensch, that's funny.


Let me tell you, that is exactly what they were.

It was worse than a combat zone.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I'll play.

Why would you automatically trade with a church group?? Are they more justified for some reason as being a better group then others? Reason I ask is religious people have killed more and caused more wars throughout history then any other group. Also of the biggest back stabbing A-holes I've known in my life. The one thing they had in common was religion. Guess going to church makes it OK to be a dick. Would be the last people that I would give ammo to.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Why would I give 250 rounds of 45acp to a Doctor to save my grandson's life ?


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Why would I arm up & provide ammo to a couple of Mensch beginners from my Temple if they lived in my Area after SHTF ( Because it would be a mitzvah and it would be payed back in long run ...


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Chipper said:


> I'll play.
> 
> Why would you automatically trade with a church group?? Are they more justified for some reason as being a better group then others? Reason I ask is religious people have killed more and caused more wars throughout history then any other group. Also of the biggest back stabbing A-holes I've known in my life. The one thing they had in common was religion. Guess going to church makes it OK to be a dick. Would be the last people that I would give ammo to.


First I wouldn't be preparing if it were not due to the actions
of my church. They got me started. They encouraged it and 
have coached and mentored me. I do trust them. So when
I say a church group I'm thinking of mine. While religion has
been a problem for many in the world its also the saving 
grace to many more. Its easy to point out the bad, but its
even easier to ignore the good.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

I'll play , why would I give anything to a doper , Drinker , Womanizer , Heathen Lie-bertarian , morally lacking brute with tattoos and reward for capture females ( For the wrong reasons )


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I have no plans to trade ammo. One they know you have it to trade , two word will get around and someone will come to take it.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Any trades or bartering would be done from a position of power ( with over watch )


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## pakrat (Nov 18, 2012)

A couple questions go through my mind. One being, if the intended recipients of the ammo trade were members of a church group oriented toward preparing, why would they not have the ammo they needed prior to SHTF? Or, why did they not make it known to other group members that they were struggling with their ammo preps prior? They could be trading their own surplus commodities, post SHTF (relying on the good will of other church members), in an attempt to expand their stores of ammo and deplete other’s stores once the supply is limited. In the end, the one with the most ammo usually ends up with the most of everything else as well.

It’s my perspective that if someone is short on ammo post SHTF, there’ll more than likely be a reason. Either they didn’t think it was important to stock up (if they have a family, shame on them), they were influenced by those around them that thought it was crazy, or they themselves were anti-firearms. In either of those scenarios, I would not feel compelled to trade ammo. 

I suppose there could be situations where people have lost all of their stores. Unfortunately, if that were true, they would also be desperate for a great number of other commodities, with very little to offer in trade. Providing them with ammo could easily be enabling them to resort to violent solutions.

Post SHTF will place extraordinary strain on our judgment and pit our senses of compassion and empathy against our need to defend and generally protect our family and our community, whatever form that takes. Diminishing my own tactical preparedness while augmenting someone else’s, is something that I would only consider under a very narrow set of circumstances, if at all.


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## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

Interesting thread: I'll play too.

I stock 22LR for two reasons. One for my own use - enough for 4 lifetimes and,................ expressly for bartering mid-recovery of a SHTF event. I figure 22LR will be like food or medical supplies to many people. 

I understand the risk of giving anyone ammo during a knock down, drag out period however in recovery I see bartering as the only currency and I plan to participate.


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## youngridge (Dec 28, 2017)

Ammo? Not to a stranger, only with in members of our group.

Maybe a BB gun or Pellet gun....slingshot?

As far as bartering for something our group would need, food and clean water are going to be number one, making sure we have an abundance and steady supply is our main goal, sole purpose is that most people will starve before they have to worry about ammo. Protecting our food and supply.....now that is why we have a group.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

The only way I am trading ammo in a SHTF situation is swapping caliber-for-caliber... example somebody needs .223 and I need 7.62x39.

But... I won't need ammo unless my 3 different cache areas all fall in the crapper... so I guess this makes me a no after all.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

If I remember correctly , I probably do not , the OP is a member of a church in which most do some prepping and many like him do a lot. They all live in the same area and are loosely further organized by neighborhood or in some cases long term friendship or family ties. 

So prior to a shtf would I want my smaller group to consider trading ammo within this larger grouping My neighborhood group with anther group that is also within our larger church. Yes I would consider trading with them prior and post SHTF . I see it as platoons within the same company . 


I think I recall the OP saying he was from California If so ,with the new rules on Ammo, if they are not now stocked it just got harder.

They cannot go buy at a good price and haul it home across state lines . Cannot mail order. they have to go in person within the state and pay . They may not want to ID themselves as buying a lot of ammo at one time . 

In or out of California - again I see this as allies who you should help . 

I often help neighbors and have received a lot of help in return. Cannot imagine not working as a group on preparations or in response to a SHTF or disaster.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

For those of you in Commiefornia, I have been told that reloading components do not fall under the new law.

I also have been told that inspections will be performed on highways leading into the state coming from Arizona on gun show weekends.

NRA, GOAL and other right wing stickers or emblems will be considered probable cause for a search for contraband ammo.

Will probably have spies at the shows taking down plate numbers like BATF does here for their database, 

but instead radioing them ahead to the roadblocks..


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> For those of you in Commiefornia, I have been told that reloading components do not fall under the new law.
> 
> I also have been told that inspections will be performed on highways leading into the state coming from Arizona on gun show weekends.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a few enterprising chai latte drinking, long haired, Prius drivers could make a killing delivering ammo to CA the week after a show


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

pakrat said:


> Post SHTF will place extraordinary strain on our judgment and pit our senses of compassion and empathy against our need to defend and generally protect our family and our community, whatever form that takes. Diminishing my own tactical preparedness while augmenting someone else's, is something that I would only consider under a very narrow set of circumstances, if at all.


This about sums it up for me. As a rule, no. The circumstances under which I would reconsider? Very narrow if at all.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> For those of you in Commiefornia, I have been told that reloading components do not fall under the new law.
> 
> I also have been told that inspections will be performed on highways leading into the state coming from Arizona on gun show weekends.
> 
> ...


So unlawful violations of 4th amendment rights to help support an unlawful violation of the 2nd amendment? Do I have that correct?


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

RedLion said:


> So unlawful violations of 4th amendment rights to help support an unlawful violation of the 2nd amendment? Do I have that correct?


YUP!

The feds got caught here taking down plate numbers a three different show locations.

I guess they thought the shows were their feeding grounds for suckers to pull their entrapment operations on.

I have seen it happen.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

SOCOM42 said:


> YUP!
> 
> The feds got caught here taking down plate numbers a three different show locations.
> 
> ...


 Some time back had what had to be a Fed trying to set me up with would have been an illegal purchase at a gun show. He was over playing his part. I turned his ass in to Local LE .


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Some time back had what had to be a Fed trying to set me up with would have been an illegal purchase at a gun show. He was over playing his part. I turned his ass in to Local LE .


They would use a straw here with me to try and get me to do NFA conversions or build and install silencers.

That went on for over 20 years, some guy would call, tell me he was a friend of a friend, said that I would help him out.

First, I never did any such sort, second I wasn't going to either.

My firearms reputation preceded me, they simply thought I would apply my background to criminal acts.

They were pissed that their 24/7 observation of me for over a two month period turned up nothing.

They were under the impression that I was stealing machine guns from the manufacturing company I worked for.

There was a stakeout at my home, phone was tapped, had a tail every time I left the house,

even to the drive in with GF, my paranoia is why spotted the tail.

Funny thing, if they were any good at it, they would have caught a friend, a double murderer who borrowed my car.

I found the purse of one victim under my front seat, that put me in as a suspect for a very short time after turning it in.

Turned out the general manager's brother was doing the gun stealing, he got busted selling six of them to LE.

After I found out about the intrusion, and I asked for an apology,

they said no way, they told me that I was guilty of something and they would find it sooner or later..

That was almost 50 years ago, the BS ended after they retired from the ATF about 25 years ago.

I am still here, they went to work for the state police firearms bureau,

they retired from their also, Jackie is still in prison for murder 1, two counts.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

SOCOM42 said:


> YUP!
> 
> The feds got caught here taking down plate numbers a three different show locations.
> 
> ...


I dont recall it being the feds. The state of California department of justice was
the one I read did this in Reno. They walked the lot of Reno's show. Some people
even thought they marked cars. Then they had the cars checked at the state
checkpoint between Nevada and CA. This was back on the magazine ban. They
were seeking people who bought hi cap magazines.

California's restrictions on ammo's are partly in place now. No easy mail order.
It has to be shipped to a dealer that can charge what he/she wants. The 
license to buy ammo is still 18 months off. Bringing more than 500 rounds
across state lines is a crime. Its a crime they will likely prosecute too.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

@Stockton, I was referring to this commie state, Massachusetts.

The state had also sent troopers to NH gun shows to look for Ma residents buying high caps at the shows.

Failing to blend in, they got no one and stopped spending state money on the project.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Trading ammo would likely be a case by case basis. I see posts saying never. 
Sadly I think never is a little extreme. Its unlikely I'd want to trade ammo,
but there are times and circumstances where I think it can be beneficial.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Sorry. We had members of our group at the Reno Nevada gun show. They didn't
get searched. They were just being told about it by vendors. This was a few
years ago when bans on hi capacity magazines were put in place. There were 
people buying them in NV. If you had them you could keep them, but now its
a crime to possess them.



SOCOM42 said:


> @Stockton, I was referring to this commie state, Massachusetts.
> 
> The state had also sent troopers to NH gun shows to look for Ma residents buying high caps at the shows.
> 
> Failing to blend in, they got no one and stopped spending state money on the project.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Not a crime to have your pre ban mags ( Judge struck it down ) I have mine still due to fact I waited until deadline and that is when Judge saved us , many did not wait however ...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Never say never. If you need X and home boy has it and he needs some 30-30 shells.... pretty good chance you will barter with him even if he is a stranger from 5 towns over

ammo is like anything else... if you are close enough to a person (post shtf) where the subject of bartering ammo comes up, you are already putting yourself in danger

Ammo, he could kill you
food keeps him alive longer to kill you
nails helps him build a device to kill you
alcohol gets him drunk to have courage to kill you

barter is barter... if a person is at your door.. they already know where you live.. if it is at a barter meet then what difference does it make as long as they do not follow you


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Tough question....no easy answer not knowing the situation, but there would have to be strong reasons for me to give anyone the means to shoot me. This is of course assuming I didn't just shoot them before they got an opportunity to ask me to barter with them.

If it were more like a gathering (like the old mountain men used to do) maybe I would, depending on what I got in return...But not just with someone approaching my home.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

You guys are all paranoid, most likely racists and stingy bastards! 

I am fully prepared to trade ammo with others who are less fortunate than I!

Below are some examples of how quickly I would trade ammo;

5.56 NATO at approx 3100 Feet Per Second

.308 WIN at approx 2700 FPS

.45 ACP at approx 900 FPS

9mm at approx 1100 FPS...:vs_lol:


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Slippy said:


> You guys are all paranoid, most likely racists and stingy bastards!
> 
> I am fully prepared to trade ammo with others who are less fortunate than I!
> 
> ...


I'll give you a laser-guided drone strike from 30,000 feet in return.:vs_smirk:


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

To answer the question posed, yes, I would eventually trade ammo.

Eventually.

EVENTUALLY.

The fact is, we simply can't know what situation we might be faced with. To cut out options from the start will only result in us having to compromise our position later. Why bother with the dilemma of arguing with yourself? Leave all options opened, so long as you can justify them.
So, since I don't know what SHTF event might fall on my head, I can't say that I won't do something.
Let's say it's a short term, localized event, ice storm rolls through the south and we all sit in blackout conditions for a week. Will I be trading ammo then? Ha, not a chance. No need. I'll be sitting at home, stoking the fire, and boiling up my next batch of rice. It anyone comes a knockin', they'll be offered a bowl and be sent on their way. Friends will be invited to prop their feet up by the fire.
Let's say it's a medium term event, a bit wide spread, the whole state let's say... 3-6 months of no electricity. Will I be trading ammo then? At first, again, no way. In any situation where the length of time is unknown, or well known but far off, you want to keep ammo close at hand for its *intended* purpose. People can get savage. Now... after the initial die off, and a somewhat return to normalcy dealing with our new world 4 months in, would I consider trading ammo then? Yeah, I'd *consider* it. At that point, you're dealing with people who are already capable of dealing with their situation. They made it that far. They didn't likely do it by shooting everybody else and taking their stuff. Those kinds of people will be killed off by the good folk real quick.
Now let's move to the long term. Kim Jong Nutbag has done the unthinkable, and hit the U.S. with a nation-wide EMP. Best estimates are 2-10 years to get the entire nation back up and running. See above for the medium term range, and apply it here. After the 6 month period, you're going to find yourself in a new society. It will be similar to the one you remember, but different. New governments will try to pop up. New systems will begin to be put in place for security, labor, hunting, gathering, farming, trading, etc... We'll begin to resemble the 16-1800s, but we'll be functional. At that point, ammunition will be hugely expensive, and will afford you quite a lot in trade. Think of the trade off at that point. 1 30.06 round could potentially feed a family for weeks if the kill was good. People will have reached the point where they realize that ammunition is a bit too expensive for Bill to blow on killing Joe down the street and trying to take his things, since the rest of the entire community will know about it by sun-up, and come lookin' for Bill, rope in hand.

So, my likelihood to trade ammo is on a converging path with the expected length of a change to life as we know it. As that time frame extends, my likelihood to trade the commodity increases until the two meet.


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## TGus (Sep 18, 2017)

I'm with Kauboy above. I wouldn't even want to trade ammo as long as I thought I might need as much as I have. It's one of those items there's no replacement for, and when you're out, you're f-cked. Someone brought up whether we'd trade ammo to a doctor for medical treatment. Again, I would only do that if I knew I could afford to; there have got to be other things he would take in trade.

Even worse than the danger of actually trading ammo is revealing to strangers that I had enough to trade out.

I would have no problem trading away ammo for a firearm I didn't own, at a reputable "shop" or the black market however, as long as the transaction was private.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Only if I have to, but I know I can in a dire situation .... with guard and discretion.


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