# When dogs attack



## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

So, I'm on my daily 2 mile walk and I start up one of my hills. This is a lower, middle class neighborhood where we take care of our yards and everyone generally gets along. I carry a bag of Milk Bones every day to hand out to the neighborhood dogs that are not in a fence and are within tossing distance or come up to greet me. One of these dogs, Ringo, is a yellow lab with a horrible and unpredictable disposition. He is within an invisible fence and I toss the biscuits and keep walking. He barks and gets in a lather but usually just takes the treat and shuts up. His owner, a drunk guy, usually just waves and has even said thanks on occasion so I know it wasn't an issue.

Today a neighbor was walking her golden retriever up the hill and Ringo blows through the fence and goes after her dog. She is foolishly trying to break them up. I yell at Ringo trying to distract him to no avail. This lady is now in fear of serious bodily injury or death so I pick up the pace, draw my handgun and just as I am prepared to shoot Ringo, he disengages and runs back to his yard. Her dog is a little banged up and she is shaken up but otherwise fine. I think it's over until the drunk owner comes out yelling at us for making his dog leave the yard. This guy is livid. He tells me I caused him to run out by shouting his name (while he was already chomping on the other dog) and telling her to keep her leashed dog in it's own yard. He shouted at me that there was a sign on his property stating that there was an invisible fence. When I said "Evidently Ringo can't read" he really got pissed.

I walked away as he went stomping off into his back yard, but I kept my eye on him until I was out of sight. It was a beautiful day......until. The lady who was involved in this stopped me afterwards and was appreciative that I was armed and willing to intervene. 

Go armed, be alert and don't let your emotions take over your judgment and Deescalate as the situation warrants. Anything can happen on a pretty day.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I had to crank up my invisible fence to the max for about 2 weeks to keep my labs from chasing cows. Now it's turned all the way down. They know what the beeping means. Labs are smart like that. Maybe your neighbor should try that. But it sounds like he shouldn't be a dog owner, anyways.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

So all it takes to beat an invisible fences is an angry dog? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? Good to know not long ago i past by 2 huge rottweilers behind an invisible fence and felt uneasy.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

If a dog wants out bad enough, electric fences built for dogs won't work. For years my dad, who is a forester, took his dog to the woods everyday. He was german shepard/collie mix. When dad got older and the company hired more young guys/gals, he sat behind the desk more often. That meant, Buck stayed at home more often. He hated that. He would jump the fence and sometimes be gone for days. So dad and I set up a single wire electric fence, when that didn't work we set up an invisible one as well. In the end we had the invisible set on high, two wires about a foot off the ground and set 1 foot and two foot away from the chain link, and three wires above the top rail. All set on high. It would work until the itch became too great. We'd hear a few yelps, look out the window and see Buck's ass running through the woods. Then we had to set up a run for him. We hated it, but had no choice. He came home one night after being gone for three days, all tore up from fighting a ****. I'm betting Buck won the fight. He was too good a fighter. One of the smartest dogs I've ever seen.


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

I'd_last_a_day said:


> So all it takes to beat an invisible fences is an angry dog? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? Good to know not long ago i past by 2 huge rottweilers behind an invisible fence and felt uneasy.


Yes and no. Dogs have a much higher pain tolerance and just like humans once they get their dander up that tolerance increases. Never trust an invisible fence to hold a dog back. Only that and consistent training.

Hell, my parents had labs that could climb over fences and through a cattle grade electric fence on top. Couldn't keep them in no matter what and I sure wouldn't have trusted just an invisible fence with them.

My boxer doesn't take as much and with good diligent training I don't have to worry about her going past the invisible fence, but I do worry about other dogs getting in.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

My dog left for days once. When he came home his balls were swollen and had been traumatized. I guess he learned his lesson.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

csi-tech I poison proofed my previous canine companions, so to them milk bones where attempts on thier lives. You didn't consider the consequences of drawing your sidearm! While you where intent upon the canine connection I would have feed you more lead than you could likely digest. Brandish a firearm at the edge of my property and you shall have a totally different conclusion to your story. JMHO. Sorry, but you where totally in the WRONG!


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I have a friend who has a dust mop dog, . . . looks like a sorta / half breed / maybe / miniature collie, . . . who is normally a pretty good little pooch.

BUT, . . . when the neighborhood squirrel sees her, . . . he taunts her, . . . and she'll bust out of that electric fence, . . . the devil himself could not stop her, . . . there is a big "Yipe" as she hits the sidewalk, . . . and the squirrel just shynasties up the tree, . . . 

She'll stay and bark at him until it finally hurts his ears or something, . . . he's up the tree and out of sight.

She then goes back across the street, . . . stands on the sidewalk, . . . and barks until my buddy turns off the invisible fence.

But, . . . back to the OP, . . . ya did good CSI, . . . everyone went home, . . . some worse for wear and tear, . . . but alive and healing. That is the best part.

AND, . . . I got a sneaking hunch that is not the last you will see / hear from the meanie dog and his owner. Just be careful.............

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

> "Evidently Ringo can't read"


^^^Best line of the day!


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

M118LR said:


> csi-tech I poison proofed my previous canine companions, so to them milk bones where attempts on thier lives. You didn't consider the consequences of drawing your sidearm! While you where intent upon the canine connection I would have feed you more lead than you could likely digest. Brandish a firearm at the edge of my property and you shall have a totally different conclusion to your story. JMHO. Sorry, but you where totally in the WRONG!


The dog had been given the treats previously with the owner's consent. The dog was off his property engaged with a leashed dog. You are comparing two different scenarios.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Coastie dad said:


> The dog had been given the treats previously with the owner's consent. The dog was off his property engaged with a leashed dog. You are comparing two different scenarios.


You are not comprehending that it is someone else's (MY) dog, and someone else's (MY) property. You and your mongrel are interlopers.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

M118LR said:


> You are not comprehending that it is someone else's (MY) dog, and someone else's (MY) property. You and your mongrel are interlopers.


Kind of into violent threats and insults there, are you? You are putting me in the place of the woman walking her dog on the public walkway when the dog in question left his owner's property.
But, you call it how you want. I'm on this side of the screen. You can't hurt me.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Not interested in hurting you. Reverse your position and put your butt on the seat of your own front porch! How many times have you stepped in someone else's dog's mess in your front yard? Bet you didn't send them a Hallmark Thank You Card, did you? Now be as magnanimous on screen as you like, but you ain't gonna give me your address so I can drag my mongrel onto your front yard and brandish a pistol on your sidewalk! MEH!!!!!!!


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

M118LR said:


> Not interested in hurting you. Reverse your position and put your butt on the seat of your own front porch! How many times have you stepped in someone else's dog's mess in your front yard? Bet you didn't send them a Hallmark Thank You Card, did you? Now be as magnanimous on screen as you like, but you ain't gonna give me your address so I can drag my mongrel onto your front yard and brandish a pistol on your sidewalk! MEH!!!!!!!


Well, I don't have a sidewalk. If I did you could feel free to come by. And at my farm, we can brandish pistols. So you could bring your pistol and wear it openly. Heck, we could even shoot them! So bring ammunition with you.
Now, wouldn't that be more fun than threatening and arguing?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Coastie dad said:


> Well, I don't have a sidewalk. If I did you could feel free to come by. And at my farm, we can brandish pistols. So you could bring your pistol and wear it openly. Heck, we could even shoot them! So bring ammunition with you.
> Now, wouldn't that be more fun than threatening and arguing?


Can we sing Cumbia and make S'mores?

Are you inviting me to the "Funny Farm" or the "Animal Farm"?

Now if you are standing on my sidewalk, (and I have one) should you brandish a firearm I'd consider it my Civic Duty to keep you from shooting it. So would my neighbors! Perhaps that is the difference between rural and urban lifestyles?

But I still don't understand how you perceived that I threatened anyone? Last I knew it was a Civic Responsibility to keep folk's from brandishing firearms on the sidewalk in-front of your Home.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

M118LR said:


> Can we sing Cumbia and make S'mores?
> 
> Are you inviting me to the "Funny Farm" or the "Animal Farm"?
> 
> ...


Probably also the difference between rural and urban perceptions of expression.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Coastie dad said:


> Probably also the difference between rural and urban perceptions of expression.


Far more than four score ago I'd have asked you what Big City lies between Possum Trot and Monkey's Eyebrow, but back then you didn't approach a man's Home with firearm, and you asked permission to hunt his fields long before you arrived armed on His property, rural or urban! But times have changed apparently!


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Apparently. Try to keep up.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

M118LR said:


> Far more than four score ago I'd have asked you what Big City lies between Possum Trot and Monkey's Elbow, but back then you didn't approach a man's Home with firearm, and you asked permission to hunt his fields long before you arrived armed on His property, rural or urban! But times have changed apparently!


Don't see how. We expect people to be armed. We also expect a certain decorum. But, we can't apply our experiences to all locales nationwide. So, rather than clutch at straws to continue a pointless discussion, I bid you a good night.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Apparently. Try to keep up.


Google where I'm talking about and I genuflect to your powers of electronic dominance watchman. Perhaps you have heard of the Tri-State Cape Girardeau area. Now or then.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Of course, I am very familiar with the area. I would suggest stepping back from the banks of the Mighty Mississippi while picking fights............ Best to stay on your safe sidewalk.

PS.

Your Property typically starts app 15 feet behind the curb according to your deed. The city owns the utility easement and allows you to mow that portion for them and ....... use their sidewalk.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Easement starts at street-side curb and ends at far edge of sidewalk. From the sidewalk to the doorstep is the Homeowners responsibility in my neighborhood. 
Possum Trot to Monkey's Eyebrow is on the banks of the Ohio River Watchman. Perhaps you are not as familiar with the area as you are the back of your own hand?

Link: http://digitalcollections.mclib.net...1~293~943:Paducah,-Kentucky,-Halfway-Between-

I have a hard time believing that anyone on this forum is passive enough to allow anyone to brandish a firearm on thier sidewalk while they are still able to prevent such occurrences. Why purchase and practice with a firearm? It's your property, you aren't going to defend it?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

If I would have witnessed someone's dog mauling a by passer, I would have to shoot it too. Too bad you couldn't taze the drunk owner. Kudos CSI tec.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

I read this thread twice, I am not sure what happened to the original topic. CSI I would have done the same thing you did.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Camel923 said:


> If I would have witnessed someone's dog mauling a by passer, I would have to shoot it too. Too bad you couldn't taze the drunk owner. Kudos CSI tec.


So you think your carry permit gives you the right to (discharge a firearm within city limits) take the life of a canine that poses no threat to you, on it's owners property? And then you intend to turn your aggression to the landowner himself. It's going to be a bad day in court for you if you get there Camel923. JMHO.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

well if your silly pooch comes charging at me blasting through what ever fence or invisible fence while I casually walk down the side walk in front of any ones house I will blow it into kitty litter.
my carry permit fruck that my right of self defence is why I carry in the first place, right?


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

M118LR said:


> Far more than four score ago I'd have asked you what Big City lies between Possum Trot and Monkey's Eyebrow, but back then you didn't approach a man's Home with firearm, and you asked permission to hunt his fields long before you arrived armed on His property, rural or urban! But times have changed apparently!


Guys, be nice.
Since 4 score equals 80, and he would have to have been old enough to be out hunting alone, I would put his age at 90 as a minimum.
He may be confused, and times were different in the roaring 20s.
I'm not usually so abrupt with someone his age, and I think we should be respectful.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Okay, play nice time. csi-tech, I urge you to walk your dog in a different part of the neighborhood. One canine acting aggressive toward's another canine isn't justification to draw your sidearm. Stay away from this area of possible conflict, it's not worth the possible legal hassles. JMHO.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

It. Wasn't. His. Dog. That Was. Attacked.


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

Coastie dad said:


> It. Wasn't. His. Dog. That Was. Attacked.


Reading comprehension is a valuable trait.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

My experience is,=visible fence.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I shot a pit bull for raking-up a Black Lab, named Rowdy, he was a buddies dog that would come around. I loved that Lab, and it really pissed me off to see his face all raked-up with teeth marks.
I knew when I saw him, and the pit; that there about to be, one dead dog laying there. I got my .357 and I blew him away, one shot and that was the end, and I have never regretted it.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> So, I'm on my daily 2 mile walk and I start up one of my hills. This is a lower, middle class neighborhood where we take care of our yards and everyone generally gets along. I carry a bag of Milk Bones every day to hand out to the neighborhood dogs that are not in a fence and are within tossing distance or come up to greet me. One of these dogs, Ringo, is a yellow lab with a horrible and unpredictable disposition. He is within an invisible fence and I toss the biscuits and keep walking. He barks and gets in a lather but usually just takes the treat and shuts up. His owner, a drunk guy, usually just waves and has even said thanks on occasion so I know it wasn't an issue.
> 
> Today a neighbor was walking her golden retriever up the hill and Ringo blows through the fence and goes after her dog. She is foolishly trying to break them up. I yell at Ringo trying to distract him to no avail. This lady is now in fear of serious bodily injury or death so I pick up the pace, draw my handgun and just as I am prepared to shoot Ringo, he disengages and runs back to his yard. Her dog is a little banged up and she is shaken up but otherwise fine. I think it's over until the drunk owner comes out yelling at us for making his dog leave the yard. This guy is livid. He tells me I caused him to run out by shouting his name (while he was already chomping on the other dog) and telling her to keep her leashed dog in it's own yard. He shouted at me that there was a sign on his property stating that there was an invisible fence. When I said "Evidently Ringo can't read" he really got pissed.
> 
> ...


Good for you sir. Every since I was attacked by a German sheppard when I was 6 years old, I am always ready to dispatch any dog. Damn dog that I had never seen before, ran at me, jumped for my throat and my only saving grace was that I turned my head to the side and he bit into my left shoulder. I was the second kid attacked, but not the last. It took the owners grand kid getting attacked before it was put down. I love dogs, but will not hesitate to end one.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> My dog left for days once. When he came home his balls were swollen and had been traumatized. I guess he learned his lesson.


Some thing happened to me once - but I also had a tattoo


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

M118LR said:


> So you think your carry permit gives you the right to (discharge a firearm within city limits) take the life of a canine that poses no threat to you, on it's owners property? And then you intend to turn your aggression to the landowner himself. It's going to be a bad day in court for you if you get there Camel923. JMHO.


WTF dont you understand that the dog wasnt on HIS PROPERTY at the time he was attacking the other dog? I would have shot the damn thing and since knowing that the owner is a drunk, I would have turned around and had my weapon at the ready just in case he was like M118LR thinking he would just come out guns a blazing.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

20 years ago when we first moved here to our property, there weren't many neighbors. There were roving packs of feral dogs however.
Our land was not fenced, as it is now, and was still heavily wooded.
Coming back from town one day, when my wife and I drove in there was a pack of a dozen or so running on our land. Fearing for our chickens, which in this early time were not as securely fenced as now, I dashed inside, grabbed the nearest shotgun, and swept the area close to the house.
Finding nothing, I was on my way back when the wife yelled a warning from the top of the steps. I turned and less than 10 feet away coming at me in a dead run, mouth wide open to bite, not making a sound, was what turned out to be a pit bull.
Good thing I had excellent training, and especially experience, because there was no time for conscious thought. BANG! Right down the throat - distance 5 feet. One small whimper and it went down.Then the other three, one right after the other, to be sure. Over in less than 5 seconds. Wife told me later she had never seen any thing like that and was amazed. 
I let it lay there for 15 or 20 minutes, just to be sure it was dead, went out and cut its collar off and the wife helped me load it in the truck bed. I drove down the two lane blacktop about 5 miles and dumped it in the ditch.

Lessons Learned: 
(1) 20 ga #6 birdshot WILL kill a large dog. IF it is point blank and goes into his open mouth.
(2) Since the above scenario is not guaranteed, keep a 12 ga pump gun in easy reach and loaded at all times with OO buck.
(3) A combat adrenaline rush is still the best high there is!!:armata_PDT_25:


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Doc Holliday said:


> WTF dont you understand that the dog wasnt on HIS PROPERTY at the time he was attacking the other dog? I would have shot the damn thing and since knowing that the owner is a drunk, I would have turned around and had my weapon at the ready just in case he was like M118LR thinking he would just come out guns a blazing.


Hey Doc, who's gun's a blazing? :lol:

Yup, Judge is going to have a field day revoking all these carry permits. Can't wait to the PITA folks show up at the trial. Just wondering what your response would be if you stepped out of the house and some stranger was in the act of drawing upon your neighbors dog? Suddenly you would be claiming the right to protect your homestead from armed invaders shooting up the neighborhood. MEH!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

darsk20 said:


> Reading comprehension is a valuable trait.


It's Friday night and I've got 11 Bourbons in me.......I aint sayin another word till I sober up and read this again...drunk maybe but sometimes I'm smart and drunk.

I need a drink....


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## darsk20 (Jun 1, 2015)

SGT E said:


> It's Friday night and I've got 11 Bourbons in me.......I aint sayin another word till I sober up and read this again...drunk maybe but sometimes I'm smart and drunk.
> 
> I need a drink....


Have another for me . . . Or I may need to have one for myself.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

M118LR said:


> csi-tech I poison proofed my previous canine companions, so to them milk bones where attempts on thier lives. You didn't consider the consequences of drawing your sidearm! While you where intent upon the canine connection I would have feed you more lead than you could likely digest. Brandish a firearm at the edge of my property and you shall have a totally different conclusion to your story. JMHO. Sorry, but you where totally in the WRONG!


The woman, her dog and I were on public right-of-way well outside the curtilege of the offending dog's property. He was vicious and as soon as he left his owner's property he was roaming at large. Under no circumstances was I wrong. If my dog leaves my yard, bites someone and gets shot it just sucks to be him and I'm breaking out my checkbook in an effort to avoid a lawsuit. If I brandish a firearm outside of your property, in no way threaten you or an innocent third party and you feed me lead? M118LR will be singin' the blues in the gray bar hotel if he lives to tell the tale.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

What the hell is this "Meh" stuff? Sounds like my Billy goat, only much more intelligently from him.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

M118LR said:


> csi-tech I poison proofed my previous canine companions, so to them milk bones where attempts on thier lives. You didn't consider the consequences of drawing your sidearm! While you where intent upon the canine connection I would have feed you more lead than you could likely digest. Brandish a firearm at the edge of my property and you shall have a totally different conclusion to your story. JMHO. Sorry, but you where totally in the WRONG!


What are you talking about


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

M118LR said:


> I have a hard time believing that anyone on this forum is passive enough to allow anyone to brandish a firearm on thier sidewalk while they are still able to prevent such occurrences. Why purchase and practice with a firearm? It's your property, you aren't going to defend it?


If the person is drawing a weapon in defense of another human...I would invite them in for a coffee and offer a sit on my porch


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

"I have a hard time believing that anyone on this forum is passive enough to allow anyone to brandish a firearm on thier sidewalk while they are still able to prevent such occurrences. Why purchase and practice with a firearm? It's your property, you aren't going to defend it?"

In my state you cannot use deadly force to defend only property. If someone walks into your yard and is stealing your new $15,000.00 Dixie Chopper mower right in front of you it is illegal to shoot them.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Sounds to me like the Ringo incident ended well enough...Every body walked away and Ringo didn't get plugged. Win win all the way around.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> The woman, her dog and I were on public right-of-way well outside the curtilege of the offending dog's property. He was vicious and as soon as he left his owner's property he was roaming at large. Under no circumstances was I wrong. If my dog leaves my yard, bites someone and gets shot it just sucks to be him and I'm breaking out my checkbook in an effort to avoid a lawsuit. If I brandish a firearm outside of your property, in no way threaten you or an innocent third party and you feed me lead? M118LR will be singin' the blues in the gray bar hotel if he lives to tell the tale.


As you mention we live in different States with different Laws. Here in Florida, not only can we protect our property, we can also protect the neighbors. You can believe that I would be in fear of my life if anyone produced a firearm on the public walk way at the front of my Home. Sitting on my porch I'd just have to act in self defense.

The moral of this tale is to only draw your firearm when you are about to fire. Otherwise leave your concealed weapon concealed. I'm sure FIDO didn't know or care that you brandished your firearm, seeing as how he was intent upon the other canine and posed no threat to you, but another Human sitting on his front porch would be keenly aware and could easily interpret your actions as HOSTILE. Good thing the other guy wasn't armed.

Once again I'd suggest that you reroute your travels. One canine acting aggressively toward another canine is not justification to draw your sidearm. (Save yourself the legal hassle) A quick shot of pepper spray would have ended Fido E Fido instantaneously without lethality, and without heavy legal troubles. Not to mention that it wouldn't give the guy on the porch any reason to quibble. But if you remain hard headed enough about how Superman-Like you thought your actions where..........
It's likely that you shall have your day in court. Save yourself some Jail Time, purchase a container of non-lethal pepper spray for non-lethal FIDO encounters. JMHO.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

M118LR said:


> As you mention we live in different States with different Laws. Here in Florida, not only can we protect our property, we can also protect the neighbors. You can believe that I would be in fear of my life if anyone produced a firearm on the public walk way at the front of my Home. Sitting on my porch I'd just have to act in self defense.
> 
> The moral of this tale is to only draw your firearm when you are about to fire. Otherwise leave your concealed weapon concealed. I'm sure FIDO didn't know or care that you brandished your firearm, seeing as how he was intent upon the other canine and posed no threat to you, but another Human sitting on his front porch would be keenly aware and could easily interpret your actions as HOSTILE. Good thing the other guy wasn't armed.
> 
> ...


You are an interesting piece of work....

you are so screwed up it is hard to start... but i will

1st if a dog is attacking another dog and a lady is in the way and a man pulls his gun and you shoot him - you are going to jail.. in jail a guy named tyron will hold you down while leroy inspects your anal cavity with his love stick

2nd you have no clue what brandishing means

3rd - he did not have pepper spray..he had a gun

4th - thinking it is ok to shoot a man dead for drawing his gun during a dog attack it feckless


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I have a right to walk anywhere I wish provided I stay on the public road in my neighborhood. I won't let the indiscretions of others determine my route. I love dogs, I have two rescue pitbulls and my son's dog makes 3 pitts. The last thing I want to do is shoot a dog. I have shot many dogs while on duty that were hit by cars and two that attacked me while responding to calls. It breaks my heart every time. 

The point of this post was simply to let people know that your situation can change in a heartbeat and preparedness is paramount. Whether you are faced with a vicious dog, a rabid coyote, a mentally ill person with a weapon or a goofball that thinks he can shoot you for virtually no reason. 

I'm going to clean and lubricate the Shield 9mm and God willing it will never be used except at the farm or on the range.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I have a right to walk anywhere I wish provided I stay on the public road in my neighborhood. I won't let the indiscretions of others determine my route. I love dogs, I have two rescue pitbulls and my son's dog makes 3 pitts. The last thing I want to do is shoot a dog. I have shot many dogs while on duty that were hit by cars and two that attacked me while responding to calls. It breaks my heart every time.
> 
> The point of this post was simply to let people know that your situation can change in a heartbeat and preparedness is paramount. Whether you are faced with a vicious dog, a rabid coyote, a mentally ill person with a weapon or a goofball that thinks he can shoot you for virtually no reason.
> 
> I'm going to clean and lubricate the Shield 9mm and God willing it will never be used except at the farm or on the range.


most of us normal people understood the point you were making... others, most likely on crack or meth totally missed the point and think they are super citizen protector of the public sidewalk


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## bigdogmom (Aug 28, 2015)

As a person who has had dogs come at me with vicious intent, you did exactly the right thing. The last time this happened I was walking my 135 lb famale Mastiff who turns crazy protective when she thinks I am in danger. The other dog charged us and I could barely hold Bella back. She was going nuts. I got ahead of her and placed the equivalent of a groin kick to the other dogs head (sometimes that Muay Thai training comes in handy) and pulled my fire arm, just as Bella pulled me over. I rolled, feet up and ready to strike and gun pointed, just in time to see him running the other direction. It's a scary sistuation when you actually experience it.

Oh, and just because some states say you can shoot someone for stealing your lawnmower without threatening you, doesn't mean you should.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

bigdogmom said:


> As a person who has had dogs come at me with vicious intent, you did exactly the right thing. The last time this happened I was walking my 135 lb famale Mastiff who turns crazy protective when she thinks I am in danger. The other dog charged us and I could barely hold Bella back. She was going nuts. I got ahead of her and placed the equivalent of a groin kick to the other dogs head (sometimes that Muay Thai training comes in handy) and pulled my fire arm, just as Bella pulled me over. I rolled, feet up and ready to strike and gun pointed, just in time to see him running the other direction. It's a scary sistuation when you actually experience it.
> 
> Oh, and just because some states say you can shoot someone for stealing your lawnmower without threatening you, doesn't mean you should.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Theres a huge yellow lab here named Bella that I managed to win over with Milk Bones. She was "stand-offish" at first but now she is just a big sweetie that comes and gets treats when I walk. I regret that my knees may end 20 years of walking soon.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

OMG, how many weaklings do I have to endure. Dog's have but one purpose, to serve man.Wolves don't even have what it takes to vanquish man in hand to tooth combat. If you are frail enough to think that you need a firearm to vanquish a canine, I pity you. Please don't try to feed me sheep-people directives. Grow a set, then I'll return to this conversation. Pitiful!


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

M118LR said:


> OMG, how many weaklings do I have to endure. Dog's have but one purpose, to serve man.Wolves don't even have what it takes to vanquish man in hand to tooth combat. If you are frail enough to think that you need a firearm to vanquish a canine, I pity you. Please don't try to feed me sheep-people directives. Grow a set, then I'll return to this conversation. Pitiful!


WHAT? You must be a mountain of a man if you can whip a pissed off 150 lb. timber wolf with your bare hands. I'm 300 lbs and 6'2" and I wouldn't touch that.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Like wrestling with a pig in the mud.....


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> WHAT? You must be a mountain of a man if you can whip a pissed off 150 lb. timber wolf with your bare hands. I'm 300 lbs and 6'2" and I wouldn't touch that.


Don't enter the Salt Water if you can't contend with the critters that call it "HOME", csi-tech. Don't pick on the Wildlife if your to tame to face whatever challenges another man has already overcome. The wilderness is much easier to master from the comfort of your Lazyboy. I may have been a Coureur des bois at a young age, perhaps just a Tadpole after that, but once upon a time I did manage to become a full fledged Frogman, even though those times have passed, I don't think I ever qualified as a Mountain Man. But I still have yet to meet a canine that was of much concern. Just an "Old Swabbie", sorry I don't make the He Man Woman Haters Club. :lol:

Link:


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

What the hell is going on in here?


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Good question Arklatex.I thought it was a simple exercise in being prepared for anything at any time and it went sideways into........this. I was a swabbie too. Just an Airedale, but a sailor nonetheless. I don't remember going off the deep end though.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

He's now trying to force a genitalia measuring competition based on glory days. Pity him, and go on with life.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

The cav scout walks into his house with a bottle of Crown in the box. Wife says, where did you get that?
Down at the bar where the frogmen hang out. We had a measuring contest.
Oh, no! Exclaimed his wife. You didn't take all that out in front of people!
No, no, my sweet, he said. Just enough to win......


Now. The contest is over. Give it a rest, k?


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> csi-tech I poison proofed my previous canine companions, so to them milk bones where attempts on thier lives. You didn't consider the consequences of drawing your sidearm! While you where intent upon the canine connection I would have feed you more lead than you could likely digest. Brandish a firearm at the edge of my property and you shall have a totally different conclusion to your story. JMHO. Sorry, but you where totally in the WRONG!


Did you read his post at all...the dog was off the owners property and attacking...anyone would be within their right to shoot the dog if needed. You coming out shooting at them would have landed you a murder charge at worst, an assault with a deadly weapon at least and you would lose your right to own that gun. Big bubbly talk with little thought will end poorly for you someday.

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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> Can we sing Cumbia and make S'mores?
> 
> Are you inviting me to the "Funny Farm" or the "Animal Farm"?
> 
> ...


My my my...aren't we just the asshat of the forum today. Mr. I'll-shoot-your-balls-off. Your quite the irate lil fella ain't you. 
You ever watch stripes? You remind me of that Frances fella... sssnnnkkk ...switchblade....what did you you say????.....only with the gun. LOL. Take a chill pill. Go drown proof your dog..and divorce proof your wife...in between cleaning your guns and killing strangers trying to keep your dog from snackin on their balls while they fearfully walk through the valley of the shadow of death known as M118 LR lane.

Your cracking me up there gunslinger....LMAO

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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> So you think your carry permit gives you the right to (discharge a firearm within city limits) take the life of a canine that poses no threat to you, on it's owners property? And then you intend to turn your aggression to the landowner himself. It's going to be a bad day in court for you if you get there Camel923. JMHO.


My my again...just can't seem to grasp the fact that the side walk ain't that fellas property and the dog was attacking, can you...and now saying he turned his "aggression" towards the land owner... man somebody pissed in your cheerios didntay. He evn said the owner blamed him for enticing the dog "beyond" his fence.....

Come on now, level....your just being obtuse to yank our chain aren't ya? Your not really that thick are you? Good job there buddy...you had me going...for a minute I thought you were a real moron or something...I admit...you had me there....LOL

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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> As you mention we live in different States with different Laws. Here in Florida, not only can we protect our property, we can also protect the neighbors. You can believe that I would be in fear of my life if anyone produced a firearm on the public walk way at the front of my Home. Sitting on my porch I'd just have to act in self defense.
> 
> The moral of this tale is to only draw your firearm when you are about to fire. Otherwise leave your concealed weapon concealed. I'm sure FIDO didn't know or care that you brandished your firearm, seeing as how he was intent upon the other canine and posed no threat to you, but another Human sitting on his front porch would be keenly aware and could easily interpret your actions as HOSTILE. Good thing the other guy wasn't armed.
> 
> ...


So your silly ass would have sat there while your neighbors dog attacked a woman and her dog on the side walk and shot anyone who came to their aid? In my book that makes you a first rate assclown.

What do you do all day? Sit out on your porch hoping for a chance to shoot somebody? "Todays the day!...Fidos off the leash and barking! I'm gonna git me one ta day!' Daaahuh...huuuh...huuuh .....


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> You are an interesting piece of work....
> 
> you are so screwed up it is hard to start... but i will
> 
> ...


I was gonna like your post...but then you had to go and use "Feckless" in it and ruined it for me.

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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> OMG, how many weaklings do I have to endure. Dog's have but one purpose, to serve man.Wolves don't even have what it takes to vanquish man in hand to tooth combat. If you are frail enough to think that you need a firearm to vanquish a canine, I pity you. Please don't try to feed me sheep-people directives. Grow a set, then I'll return to this conversation. Pitiful!


To use your own words, OMG, this ain't about vanquishing, it about protection from possible maiming. To even insuate that dogs aren't sometimes a threat shows us two things. First your got a super human complex of infallibility an un-defeatability and you assume every woman or child out there does too. Dogs hurt people nearly all the time out there in the real world...maybe not in florida were men are men and dogs are scared...but out in the real world...that place you refer to as pansy-land. People have a right to defend themselves and others from attacking animals...you do not have the right to defend attacking animals from people defending themselves or others.

So call us pussies for pulling a gun on an attacking dog...we can't all stop their charge with our fearsome aura or prevent them from attacking with a mean look like you can. Meanwhile...don't be shooting at someone shooting at a dog that's attacking a lady and her dog on a sidewalk near me or I may have to shoot you.....

And I'm a good shot because I used to be in the army, the salvation army, and we had all these flies around that I'd shoot rubber bands at all day long. You aint shit unless you can take out a house fly with a 7.62" rubber band gun on the wing at 10 feet with wooden sights. Still gives me the sweats sometimes thinking bout it all. Carnage man...carnage...so I'm a little strung out these days suffering from it all and quick on the trigger...so don't make any fast moves around me, I may flash back and snapppp....like a rubber band man....and you know the rule with that...you can't unfire a rubber band.


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## bigdogmom (Aug 28, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> Theres a huge yellow lab here named Bella that I managed to win over with Milk Bones. She was "stand-offish" at first but now she is just a big sweetie that comes and gets treats when I walk. I regret that my knees may end 20 years of walking soon.


In the spirit of keeping this post from exploding (maybe it did while I typed this ), our Bella is nicknamed the monster. She was a hot, fearful mess when we brought her home at age 6. We have worked with her for almost two years, but she definitely has her moments still. You would eventually win her over with milk bones and then she would probably follow you home and never leave, but you would have a very stout guardian. They joys of rescue. You get to spend years undoing what idiot owners create.

Sorry about your knees. Walking is such good, low impact exercise. Hopefully you can find something else that works. And thank you for trying to help those dogs. It's amazing to me how many people think dogs are ornaments in a yard and then wonder why they snap.

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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

I used to have this endurance race horse, Arab and Thoroughbred. He'd have kicked that dog into next week. Horse had no tolerance for rude dogs.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

I fail to understand some people's reasoning here on this subject. The attacker left his property in order to attack another dog, who was on public property (I can only assume she was on a sidewalk or in the street), and was just walking. Csi-tech would have been well within his rights to shoot the attacker, since it was attempting bodily harm towards an innocent dog and possibly the lady. It is the responsibility of the attacking dog's owner to keep him on his property by any means necessary. If you read my first post, that's what we had to do with our dog. Chain link fence, two layers of invisible fence, and five electric wires could not keep our dog in the yard. And all he wanted to do was run around the woods. Tying him up was the only way to keep him and others safe.



> Ringo blows through the fence and goes after her dog


 Attacker left his property



> This lady is now in fear of serious bodily injury or death


 Bodily harm



> he disengages and* runs back to his yard*


 Left public property



> the drunk owner comes out yelling at us for making his dog leave the yard


 Walking past is not forcing a dog to leave his/her property. This guy is an idiot.



> telling her to keep her leashed dog in it's own yard


 Idiot should heed his own advise.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

New guy 101 said:


> I was gonna like your post...but then you had to go and use "Feckless" in it and ruined it for me.
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk


feck·less
ˈadjective: feckless

lacking initiative or strength of character; irresponsible.
"a feckless mama's boy"
synonyms:	useless, worthless, incompetent, inept, good-for-nothing, ne'er-do-well; More


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

M118LR said:


> OMG, how many weaklings do I have to endure. Dog's have but one purpose, to serve man.Wolves don't even have what it takes to vanquish man in hand to tooth combat. If you are frail enough to think that you need a firearm to vanquish a canine, I pity you. Please don't try to feed me sheep-people directives. Grow a set, then I'll return to this conversation. Pitiful!


Dont be too hard on the old guy guys.... This is what he think he looks like








This is what he actually looks like...








Just chalk it up to him being a super internet commando mall ninja


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> feck·less
> ˈadjective: feckless
> 
> lacking initiative or strength of character; irresponsible.
> ...


LOL :.Maine I knew what it meant...its just become the republican talking points word of the year and it always makes me think of one of two other words...Fecal and freckles.

I'd rather we say plain old language....worthless, good-for-nothin bastards.

Saying the word Feckless is like saying "that person is less than truthful" instead of saying Yep...(s)he's a liar.

And I was just being me...I Liked the rest of your post though.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

New guy 101 said:


> LOL :.Maine I knew what it meant...its just become the republican talking points word of the year and it always makes me think of one of two other words...Fecal and freckles.
> 
> I'd rather we say plain old language....worthless, good-for-nothin bastards.
> 
> ...


we have become dumb downed when it comes to the english language... feckless is a wonderful word...


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Wow, got all the want to be Michael Vicks beating thier chests about how Dog Gone Dangerous hand licking field companion Labradors are. :lol:

Time to go Dodge City, the most common breed field Dog in America is off the leash. Let's start banging away in the Hood! Pistols drawn, Fido's a menace to Society, head for the torches and pitchforks Boyz.

Fido would have gone racing back to his Master with just the simple use of the Tone of Command in your voice. Worst case would be a shot of pepper spray. So Ya'll have ramped this up into a Life or Death Draw your sidearm or die situation! As to superhuman skills, if you ain't got what it takes to control a canine without Drawing Your Sidearm............ (River noise goes unnoticed, discharge a firearm and folks come a running!)


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

M118LR said:


> Wow, got all the want to be Michael Vicks beating thier chests about how Dog Gone Dangerous hand licking field companion Labradors are. :lol:
> 
> Time to go Dodge City, the most common breed field Dog in America is off the leash. Let's start banging away in the Hood! Pistols drawn, Fido's a menace to Society, head for the torches and pitchforks Boyz.
> 
> Fido would have gone racing back to his Master with just the simple use of the Tone of Command in your voice. Worst case would be a shot of pepper spray. So Ya'll have ramped this up into a Life or Death Draw your sidearm or die situation! As to superhuman skills, if you ain't got what it takes to control a canine without Drawing Your Sidearm............ (River noise goes unnoticed, discharge a firearm and folks come a running!)


Worse case "a shot of pepper spray"... lol... worse case the pepper spray can malfunctions and the dog bites the ladies arm ripping her artery open and then goes after the man who was trying to help... he survives but needs 165 stitches -she ends up dying...


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

You have been spending to much time re-watching Cujo. Give it up, if you are drawing your sidearm on Fido vs Fido, you need to rethink your Superman Status. JMHO.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> Wow, got all the want to be Michael Vicks beating thier chests about how Dog Gone Dangerous hand licking field companion Labradors are.
> 
> Time to go Dodge City, the most common breed field Dog in America is off the leash. Let's start banging away in the Hood! Pistols drawn, Fido's a menace to Society, head for the torches and pitchforks Boyz.
> 
> Fido would have gone racing back to his Master with just the simple use of the Tone of Command in your voice. Worst case would be a shot of pepper spray. So Ya'll have ramped this up into a Life or Death Draw your sidearm or die situation! As to superhuman skills, if you ain't got what it takes to control a canine without Drawing Your Sidearm............ (River noise goes unnoticed, discharge a firearm and folks come a running!)


Uhh, scuse me sir, but the OP said he pulled his weapon to ward off a threatening dog...your the one came in saying you woulda shot his ass if he did that on your street. :..now I admit to saying I would shoot you if I saw you shooting him for shooting the dog.....but that was arguably only with my 7.62 rubber band gun... the rest of your cujo...and Mike Vick comments aside.... you really just have your heart into this one don't you. I'm gonna just slowly back away and let this sleeping dog lie.... wouldn't want to wake him and see somebody get shot.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

New guy 101 said:


> Uhh, scuse me sir, but the OP said he pulled his weapon to ward off a threatening dog...your the one came in saying you woulda shot his ass if he did that on your street. :..now I admit to saying I would shoot you if I saw you shooting him for shooting the dog.....but that was arguably only with my 7.62 rubber band gun... the rest of your cujo...and Mike Vick comments aside.... you really just have your heart into this one don't you. I'm gonna just slowly back away and let this sleeping dog lie.... wouldn't want to wake him and see somebody get shot.


Perhaps you should dig into the deeper question New guy 101. 
The dog is irrelevant, and easily diverted. csi-tech is of the opinion that the homeowner is a drunk and has therefor forfeited the inalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. 
The damsel in distress owes Her life and that of her cur mongrel to his handy and expeditious use of his ability to possess while misusing a concealed carry permit. 
But all the folks jumping on the bandwagon would bristle if a stranger pulled the same self indulgent superhero acts on thier sidewalk. 
So hey, six gangbangers on on your sidewalk with drawn firearms, hope you ain't the guy fitting the bills sitting on the porch getting shot. 
So bad, to sad, love dad. JMHO.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> Perhaps you should dig into the deeper question New guy 101.
> The dog is irrelevant, and easily diverted. csi-tech is of the opinion that the homeowner is a drunk and has therefor forfeited the inalienable right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
> The damsel in distress owes Her life and that of her cur mongrel to his handy and expeditious use of his ability to possess while misusing a concealed carry permit.
> But all the folks jumping on the bandwagon would bristle if a stranger pulled the same self indulgent superhero acts on thier sidewalk.
> ...


OK tell the truth...You were that drunk guy...forgot your gun and could only yell at him and now your doing a verbal redo of the event, right?

Seriously...the guy whose dog attacked is the victim in your version? The woman an interloper, and CSI is six armed gang bangers?

This is like watching "O Brother Where art Thou" after reading Homer's version. Comical.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

So there I was one day...riding thine own horse, whynst I did see a damsel in distress as a vicious Dragon lunged at her, grasping her steed in his vicious jowls.. I did spur my stallion in attempt to vanquish this foul beast back into the depth of hell...but alas...an evil sorcerer appeared from a dwelling near this field of battle, and did yell "Nay...thou shall not pass!!!" And did caste a spell on mine soul causing grievous injury. Then did in an instant harken yonder attacking dragon to his side with merely an utterance of syllables, to this day remain a mystery....
The sorcerer then bedded the damsel, consumed the remnants of her mortally wounded steed and retired for a fortnite.

How's that version M118...your the hero there too...sort of....

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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Here is how I see this NG101. 
I put up an electric fence that was probably all I could do thanks to the homeowners association rules on public blight. I have inherited a 100 pound half lab half Dane that lets children ride him in the house without a concern. Will the same said canine show aggression to any other of God's creations? Now at anytime did I give you or the clueless ladies canine an invitation to walk the outskirts of "MY HOMESTEAD"? So I'll put myself into that drunk home owners porch, (perhaps I'm better armed, far more combat trained, experienced, and ready to respond.) and you produced a lethal firearm on my sidewalk.

Just what right do you have to encroach on my Homestead brandishing a firearm and expect me to cringe to your misguided sensibilities? My Wife,Children, and Grandchildren all live upon this ground! So if you are foolish enough to produce a weapon to dispel an act of canine to canine aggression, which by the way is not any threat to you or your delusional damsel in distress, Just what credence should I dispose myself to grant you instead of six armed gangbanger's on my sidewalk?

Please put yourself on the porch before you report the Richard Cranium, I am a Card Carrying Firearm Toting Member of the "Faultless Concealed Carry Generation"! Do you truly expect your version of what expired to hold up in a court of law????????

The drunk on HIS PORCH didn't invite any of Ya'll onto is property, right of way or not, why did you draw a lethal firearm during a non-lethal canine to canine exchange?? Pay your legal consultant and serve your incarceration time and quit your whining cause you are in the wrong.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Pepper spray doesn't work on vicious dogs in most cases. A Taser does though, damned near every time. I have even seen a taser turn a snarling attacking dog into putty only wanting to be comforted. I just can't afford one to carry just for dogs, I think your problem is you don't understand the difference between public and private property. I was never invited onto the dog owners property and never went on his property. I'm moving onto other things, you are like talking to my kid when he was a teenager. No matter how many times I told him not to do something stupid he just had to learn it himself. I trashed the PTO oil seal on my tractor today and I need some comforting myself.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Really? Green alien thing: you're an idiot....


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

OK, your right on every account except the following: 
1. It :wasnt on his homestead, it happened on a public side walk, so not yours...not his either....public.
2. He never encroached on his property.
3. It is legal to draw your weapon in defense of your self and others in many states.
4. Unless he points, moves, or shows aggression towards your family, or moves towards your homestead you have no right to shoot at him, especially if he is off your property and not shooting or pointing at you or your family.
5. It is an assumption that an attacking dog means no harm to the human woman or is no threat...google dog attacks on humans and see some of the maimed people from them...also rabbis is a concern. I give benefit of the doubt to the decision of the woman and CSI since they didn't drag the dog out of his yard.
6. Brandishing means something in the dictionary. Look it up.
7. Concealed carry or open carry, makes no difference after the weapon has been drawn.
If just seeing someone holding a weapon, pointed at an attacking dog gives you cause to fear for your life, then I have to ask how is it you made it through all those harrowing ops you speak of. And I expect a court to be far more lenient with me and my (CSI's) version over your, I feared for my life cause I saw a gun, that wasn't pointed at me story

So there's seven specific things I think your mistaken on. Putting aside the rhetoric...tell me how I am wrong ?

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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Is there a difference between dead right and dead wrong? 
Keep your weapon in it's hostler until you have committed to use it. 
Like the Samurai, once you draw your weapon use it. If not, don't draw it. 
Don't disturb your weapon for incidents that can be cured without it.
Learn to correct the mistakes of others before you have to pay for making the same mistake. 
Never underestimate the skills of an opponent, perceived or otherwise.

Walk away from trouble before it begins.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> Is there a difference between dead right and dead wrong?
> Keep your weapon in it's hostler until you have committed to use it.
> Like the Samurai, once you draw your weapon use it. If not, don't draw it.
> Don't disturb your weapon for incidents that can be cured without it.
> ...


How many times in combat did you keep your weapon stowed until right before you shot. How many cops do you see pull their weapons and never fire them because the subject complied? It is actually quite common that once a gun is drawn the threat situation changes drastically...and to shoot after a someone raises there hands in surrender would get you murder charges. The same is true for when an attacking animal flees the area...its actually irresponsible to go firing at him as he's running away though a neighborhood.
If I wake up in the middle of the night and hear a burglar. I'm pulling my weapon out, if I find its my son sneaking back in from a party, I'm not gonna shoot him.

So lots of reasons and examples why you don't keep it holstered and then try to do your wild west quick draw to kill someone.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

M118LR said:


> Now at anytime did I give you or the clueless ladies canine an invitation to walk the outskirts of "MY HOMESTEAD"?


The wonderful thing about america is we do not need YOUR permission to walk 1 inch outside your property line. And we could carry a shotgun while doing it


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

New guy 101 said:


> How many times in combat did you keep your weapon stowed until right before you shot.
> What are your ROE's?
> How many cops do you see pull their weapons and never fire them because the subject complied? It is actually quite common that once a gun is drawn the threat situation changes drastically...and to shoot after a someone raises there hands in surrender would get you murder charges.
> How many times have you faced this situation?
> ...


Don't know how to quick draw, but I served as both Military and Law Enforcement Officer, have yet to come up second best and have been involved in fatalities. Would you care to share your real world experiences?


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> Don't know how to quick draw, but I served as both Military and Law Enforcement Officer, have yet to come up second best and have been involved in fatalities. Would you care to share your real world experiences?


They are irrelevant since we are talking about rights. Did you ever pull your weapon and not shoot it?

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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

M118LR said:


> Like the Samurai, once you draw your weapon use it. If not, don't draw it.


I have pulled my weapon and not used it.. why? the guy I pulled it on stopped, dropped the machete, and put his hands up... Was I supposed to shot him anyway???? or stab him with a sword.. I missed your point, I guess


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> The wonderful thing about america is we do not need YOUR permission to walk 1 inch outside your property line. And we could carry a shotgun while doing it


You do not need my permission, but you assume that you have my approval, what is the consequence when you are WRONG! Especially if you had a shotgun in your hand when I took exception?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

In the Navy I was only allowed to fire after receiving permission. (I sleep well comforted in the knowledge that I tripped the trigger) The only times that interrupt my sleep was when I wasn't granted permission to fire. As an LEO, I didn't need permission to fire. I only had to account for and justify every round sent downrange.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

M118LR said:


> In the Navy I was only allowed to fire after receiving permission. (I sleep well comforted in the knowledge that I tripped the trigger) The only times that interrupt my sleep was when I wasn't granted permission to fire. As an LEO, I didn't need permission to fire. I only had to account for and justify every round sent downrange.


Well That didn't answer my question but we will jus put that behind us now. In the Service I was allowed to pull the trigger every time I felt threatened or saw a bad guy doing bad stuff...and I had my weapon on a sling and at the low ready...the point is the weapon was out and ready IF I needed it. A holstered weapon has to be drawn...if its against an animal I will draw it and hope I do need to use it...if its a person I will draw it and fire if I must and put it away when the threat is no longer one....

Again, thanks for your service, but we will have to agree to disagree that CSI was right or wrong..

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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

sooooooooo, m118
I guess we can take that as:
number of times you were in actual combat and discharging a weapon=0
number of time you were allowed to carry a weapon as a security guard =0
wow you got some mighty fine experience stat's there.
frog man huh, so tell me mister frog man what is the maximum depth for diving with scuba -no mixed gas just compressed air tanks? other words at what depth does the air we breath become toxic to us?


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Bottom to top: 
You are welcome, it was my privilege. Grown ups agree to disagree often. 

First couple of tours, every one else had automatic weapons, Uncle Sam issued me a knife. In the RSSZ, ROE's-visible weapon=Free fire zone. After that I was guided by the alphabet companies rules of engagement. Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but pictures, engage nothing without permission. It didn't matter how much "BAD STUFF" I documented photographically, righting the wrongs without permission wasn't authorized. On the other hand, orders to fire were not to be questioned, right or wrong? So as our experiences differ, so do our opinions on csi-techs actions. We can agree to disagree, but both of us must understand what the consequences of csi-techs actions will be on each of our front yards. Hope I'm clear.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> sooooooooo, m118
> I guess we can take that as:
> number of times you were in actual combat and discharging a weapon=0
> number of time you were allowed to carry a weapon as a security guard =0
> ...


Try swimming with your re-breather at 40 feet for a little while. When you google that we can talk again. :lol:


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

still just can't answer the question, can you?
I mean come on a high speed frogman like you should know the answer off the top of you head.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Oh you silly boy, Nitrox isn't for deeper depth. Take a couple of PADI Courses prior to acting like you know something. 
What do you sound like when diving below 150 feet Medic33?


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

still didn't answer the question did you 
here it is again : at what depth does the air we breath become toxic?
btw in my opinion drawing a weapon at an attacking dog is justified. but you don't do dogs do yah m1118 only tigers with a mark 2 field knife or something cause your super bug.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Stop feeding the insanity!!!!!!!!!!!
He's 90 some years old...let him live his glory.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

never said anything about nitrox i did say mixed gas but not specifically nitrox.
and even so i want the answer for regular air, just pointing that out again cause apparently reading the English language is not your strong point.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Just wondering what the time interval was for releasing a tourniquet on the jugular was Medic33. Since you didn't provide salinity, isotherm, or time constraints while you weren't smart enough to realize that you asked about Nitrox, I'm awaiting your response.
PS, the answer to your silly question depends upon the diver. See Bret Gilliam's Chronicles.


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## New guy 101 (Dec 17, 2014)

Damn...don't anybody sleep anymore? what's all this NITROX, Heliox, Nitrogen narcosis, no deep diving without decompression, tourniquets on Jugular stuff? Did that damn dog bite some one on the neck at 200 feet below sea level....again? Someone should really shoot that damn thing already......

LOL. Just having some fun...have a good day fighting...I got real man shit to do today...meetings.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

Have a nice day New guy 101. 

Medic33 does have a tendency to toss forks into the road. At least you made mention of No Decompression Stop Limit Air Dives. The Navy tables are still generally accepted to be the most reliable. National Association of Rescue Divers (NARD) puts out some plain/common language information that is easy for most to comprehend.

Perhaps it is time to agree, and let this sleeping dog lie. Had a good time verbally fencing NG101, look forward to the next match.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

what ever ml118 it isn't rocket science and once again you just proved what an idiot you are.
thanx for playing.
and next time just shoot the dog.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Cant believe the bad timing of coming in on the final stanzas of a good brawl..lol. Anyway I thought we was talking about crazy big dogs trying to bite people and consume their ankle biters out for a walk on the leash. I carries a stout walking stick..of which to make them keep their distance and delivering drop kicks to their chins and chests..while fumbling for the mini NAA five shooter in the right front. Yall drive me crazy a lot around here.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

It's a shame you showed up late and brought a stick to a gunfight. Everyone knows those brutal Labradors can't be controlled without large doses of lead. :lol:

About that science thing, it takes a little to plan a dive Medic33. Here is a link: Dive Tables

We can debate rocket science at a later date should you wish. :lol:


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

M118LR said:


> OMG, how many weaklings do I have to endure. Dog's have but one purpose, to serve man.Wolves don't even have what it takes to vanquish man in hand to tooth combat. If you are frail enough to think that you need a firearm to vanquish a canine, I pity you. Please don't try to feed me sheep-people directives. Grow a set, then I'll return to this conversation. Pitiful!


The one advantage humans have over the animal world is our intelligence along with the ability to invent and use tools to make up for our lack of thick skin tooth or claw.

CSI was absolutely right for intervening the way he did, that lady was in the public minding her own business when that dog attacked her animal. I don't even blame the dog for attacking, its obviously not had any kind of structure or discipline and its owner is obviously an irresponsible pet owner.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

M118LR said:


> You do not need my permission, but you assume that you have my approval, what is the consequence when you are WRONG! Especially if you had a shotgun in your hand when I took exception?


Don't need your approval.


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

M118LR said:


> So you think your carry permit gives you the right to (*discharge a firearm within city limits*) take the life of a canine that poses no threat to you, on it's owners property? And then you intend to turn your aggression to the landowner himself. It's going to be a bad day in court for you if you get there Camel923. JMHO.


Perfectly legal in our shared state (Florida). No city in Florida can ban shooting within city limits. The State reserves all laws regarding firearms and does not allow counties and cities to further restrict. You can set up a range in your backyard in the middle of the city as long as you have a backstop or high berm, and do not put others in danger. Neighbors might be pissed, but you are completely within your rights. Sounds wierd, but that's the law in Florida.... thank goodness!


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

M118LR said:


> OMG, how many weaklings do I have to endure. Dog's have but one purpose, to serve man.Wolves don't even have what it takes to vanquish man in hand to tooth combat. If you are frail enough to think that you need a firearm to vanquish a canine, I pity you. Please don't try to feed me sheep-people directives. Grow a set, then I'll return to this conversation. Pitiful!


John Rourke strikes again! :laughhard::violent:


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