# Radios discussion - portable handsets



## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I have a feeling that I'm opening up a can of worms, but here it goes: my background is that I have my tech license (rarely use it) and I have a GMRS license for the family. Having said that I'm trying to build out my radio cache so that I have radios for my family and friends and folks that i might end up working with should things get interesting. I have dual band mobiles in two of my vehicles and for handhelds I have the following:
- 1 Yaesu VX6R
- 2 Baofeng 888 (for the technology averse folks that just should turn a knob to select a channel and have no keypad to mess things up)
- 3 Baofeng UV5r


Appart from my Yaesu, none of the radios are dust or weather proof. I am looking to pickup 2 more HT's that don't cost me an arm and a leg, that will not die should they end up being submerged. I'm half tempted with Baofeng UV9r (got a pair from Amazon with a programming cable for under a $100). They claim 8W, knowing realities, I'll be happy with 5W  

I'm looking to test drive a Retevis RT82 this week as well. Here one radio costs me the same as two of the UV9r's though I end up picking up some extra features. A downside for me though here is a bigger display - should the radio get dropped, bigger display is easier to crack.

What else is out there? I would love to pickup a box of Yaesu's or Kenwoods but the price of them is a bit out there. On the other hand, I don't want to pickup a radio that will stop working 2 months into the end of the world 

Thoughts?


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## K7JLJ (Sep 25, 2018)

RT-6 got my vote.... https://k7jlj.github.io/K7JLJ.com/tac_comms.html


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

I have 5 Wouxun UV-3D, neat HT. I bet my life on an Icom V-80, mil spec splash proof and shock proof. Give me a HT I can program in the field, without a computer. Give me a HT with a strong BNC antenna connector, the SMA connectors are OK for lab work but too mechanically weak for field work. Be sure and buy the AA battery case as those are hard to find after the radio model stops production. After working 41 years in electronics I have repaired hundreds of radios. de KA5SIW


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

K7JLJ said:


> RT-6 got my vote.... https://k7jlj.github.io/K7JLJ.com/tac_comms.html


Thanks! That's a great writeup! Now you got me scratching my head as I'm trying to figure out the difference between RT6 and UV9R. The shell looks identical, the display color schemes seem identical. Further looking what's mega confusing is that some other Retevis radios look identical to Baofeng radios - now the casing/shell similarity might not mean much as the software inside and some components difference could mean a world of difference, but there seems to be nothing else out there providing any details as to what are the differences.

Btw, even the charger is similar - 10V.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Captjim_NM said:


> I have 5 Wouxun UV-3D, neat HT. I bet my life on an Icom V-80, mil spec splash proof and shock proof. Give me a HT I can program in the field, without a computer. Give me a HT with a strong BNC antenna connector, the SMA connectors are OK for lab work but too mechanically weak for field work. Be sure and buy the AA battery case as those are hard to find after the radio model stops production. After working 41 years in electronics I have repaired hundreds of radios. de KA5SIW


That's a nice radio - thought a bit more then what I'm looking to spend at the moment.

Regarding the BNC vs SMA - I had my share of Yaesu's and Icom's throughout the years and now Baofengs and I don't recall having any issues with the SMA connector..... Of course now that I said it


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

so thanks to Amazon I get to put my hands on and see various models. I just got today the Retevis RT82 and RT6. Here's my thoughts:

Retevis RT82 - really nicely made case, not happy with the little joystick. Anyways, installed the software and ...... damn I figured out some, but damn, it's more complicated then it should be.

Retevis RT6 - looks identical to Baofeng UV9r BUT the plastic seems to be a bit "heavier". Not sure how to describe it even, but it seems to be better made then the UV9R. And of course it works with Chirp  

While I like the idea of having DMR, for the price of one RT82 (more or less) I can have two RT6 units......

Now I need to play with transmission quality/range.


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## Ridin with biden (Nov 25, 2020)

Wedrownik said:


> so thanks to Amazon I get to put my hands on and see various models. I just got today the Retevis RT82 and RT6. Here's my thoughts:
> 
> Retevis RT82 - really nicely made case, not happy with the little joystick. Anyways, installed the software and ...... damn I figured out some, but damn, it's more complicated then it should be.
> 
> ...


What kind of range are you getting with the rt6?


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I haven't done any range testing yet

As a side note, I got a chance to play a bit more with the DMR radio and I think I'm starting to like it. Problem is that it might be a bit complicated to hand to my wife in case of emergency.......


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## K7JLJ (Sep 25, 2018)

Wedrownik said:


> Thanks! That's a great writeup! Now you got me scratching my head as I'm trying to figure out the difference between RT6 and UV9R. The shell looks identical, the display color schemes seem identical. Further looking what's mega confusing is that some other Retevis radios look identical to Baofeng radios - now the casing/shell similarity might not mean much as the software inside and some components difference could mean a world of difference, but there seems to be nothing else out there providing any details as to what are the differences.
> 
> Btw, even the charger is similar - 10V.


They might be made on the same assembly line and just rebranded. The menu system is identical IIRC.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

So while I didnt do a range test I did a dunk test - pot full of water for 5 minutes. Both radios work, after the speakers dried up they sound better, BUT one of the RT6s lost a top line of text on the bottom channel row.... gonna have to reach out to Retevis and find out what's up....


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Hey guys sorry to briefly butt in but can I just ask for your recomendations for a good small portable walkie-talkie that every member of my hypothetical 'Doomsday Hall' survival group can keep in their pockets at all times while they're out doing jobs around the place?
Here's a pic of our setup, I think we'd only need a radio range of a few miles so we can all keep in touch with each other wherever we are-


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## K7JLJ (Sep 25, 2018)

There are a million options. 

If you don't care about being heard easily and want cheap,,, 
An analog HAM HT like the radios mentioned in this thread will work. You can use them on the MURS freq if you have no license.

If you want 90% secured comms.... a DMR, or other digital mode HT.

My ultimate SHTF radio is the Yeasu FT-70DR which I will be buying a set of this Monday. I will detail why I feel this way on offgridcomms.com after I've had time to program and play with them. But the long and short is 12V onboard charger, Digital/Analog reception with light color indication to let a non-HAM know by color code if they are talking on a Digital "secured" channel. MARS modifiable, good scanner and easy to program by faceplate.


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Thanks, and a follow-up question would be how do we power our walkie-talkies in a future post-apoc world when all the batteries have run out?
Even if we have rechargeable batteries, how do we recharge them after the national electricity grid has gone dead?


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Solar panels  crank up generators  your kid in a huge hamster wheel connected to a dynamo


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## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

Eyeball said:


> Thanks, and a follow-up question would be how do we power our walkie-talkies in a future post-apoc world when all the batteries have run out?
> Even if we have rechargeable batteries, how do we recharge them after the national electricity grid has gone dead?


Why are you asking a basic question that's been covered here on this forum and probably on every survivalist bored and even every gaming forum?
I figured poor old Spike would know basic crap like that. Interesting. Just kidding


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I have a UV5r as the "master", and a 5 pack of 888 radios to hand out to my "tech averse" family/friends.
All are programmed with FRS, GMRS, and a few local repeaters using Chirp.
They can talk to each other and to the repeaters, assuming they are operational and it's an emergency situation (SHTF).
Cheap redundancy was my goal.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

SGG said:


> Why are you asking a basic question that's been covered here on this forum and probably on every survivalist bored and even every gaming forum?
> I figured poor old Spike would know basic crap like that. Interesting. Just kidding


Why would Eyeball give a rodent's rectum about radios when, after the grid goes down, his entire world implodes due to lack of electricity to play his games?


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

SGG said:


> Why are you asking a basic question that's been covered here on this forum and probably on every survivalist bored and even every gaming forum?
> I figured poor old Spike would know basic crap like that. Interesting. Just kidding


I was asking you guys for advice because forums provide answers that are bang up-to-date (take it as a compliment), whereas web hits might be old and therefore invalid.
If you guys can't answer my questions I suppose I could always google it, but if everybody used google, forums would die out..


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Why would Eyeball give a rodent's rectum about radios when, after the grid goes down, his entire world implodes due to lack of electricity to play his games?


We'll use a generator and solar power..:vs_cool:


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## Eyeball (Nov 8, 2020)

Wedrownik said:


> Solar panels  crank up generators  your kid in a huge hamster wheel connected to a dynamo


Good thinking mate, you're a born survivor..


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Wedrownik said:


> So while I didnt do a range test I did a dunk test - pot full of water for 5 minutes. Both radios work, after the speakers dried up they sound better, BUT one of the RT6s lost a top line of text on the bottom channel row.... gonna have to reach out to Retevis and find out what's up....


Now the top line lost a middle row of the display - going to swap out the radio - I'm thinking that particular one has an "internal" leak.

Overall, I don't think this radio is IP57 as they state. It's definitely better then the Baufeng UV5 series when it comes to dealing with water, but it's not what it's advertised as. I am not planning on taking it swimming, so I think that's fine for my needs (falling into water or heavy rain/moisture), but for all that are looking at it as an IP57 radio (some sites are actually even selling it as IP67), please beware.


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## K7JLJ (Sep 25, 2018)

Yeah, if it's an x7 rating that doesn't mean it's a submerge able radio. 

The test for x7 is 30min @ 1M but that's with all new seals and no misalignment, etc. They don't dunk them all at the factory if any.

Real world x7 rating to me means I can use in rain without a protective bag or it can drop in a puddle long enough for me to snatch it out without issues. 

You are a lot braver than me. I won't be submerging my FT-70DRs to check their QC. $30 RT6, would cost a lot less to replace, but I don't need find out that the QC was a miss on any of them as it's unlikely that they would fail in a rain storm or quick puddle dump.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I'm still within my return period and I will be returning it as defective if it dies due to submersion . And if there are any issues with that Amex covers me for the first two years for issues like that.

Anyways, I'm willing to deal with some fogging up to start with on the radio (one of the RT6s), but the display going out is bugging me so I'm getting that set exchanged and might keep the best 2 out of 4 (they come as a pair).

While on a quest for the best inexpensive radio I also ordered Baoefeng GT3WP and after I dunked it in a pot for 5 minutes, the top light came on and is gently "glowing" as well as the PTT is having issues. So that one is definitely losing out and going back.

I also ordered a Radtel RT480 - and I think that I like it. Survived the dunk test the best out of all the radios - no apparent issues. Also it's supposed to let you program all the side buttons (cable is coming today so I will verify). Downside of that radio though is the fact that it's using batteries different from all the other radios as well as the speaker mike hookup is different as well - looks like it's the narrow two post Motorola. I think the speaker mike issue is not that big of a deal, but the battery support concerns me....


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## K7JLJ (Sep 25, 2018)

Copy, makes sense then. The VX-6 is going to be your champion, but it's not cheap. They also have a fragile ceramic filter that costs $200 to replace when thy break. Mine took a 3ft hit to concrete and was out of commission. My TYT-UVF1 has fallen 3x that far and never had an issue. I saw a video of one falling of a 100ft tower and still worked.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Ok, had some time to play with things. Radtel RT480 rocks when it comes to water - sat for 20 minutes in a bucket and not a single issue - no display problems, no PTT issues, no fogging up of the LCD.

Sucks that it doesn't use CHIRP and I had to manually load all my freqs into it's software (which doesn't support CtrlV.... You have to right click paste in every single damn cell!!)

Found out that spare batteries are $20 shipped - not too bad. Now all I need is a speaker mike that's sealed on the connector and I think I have a winner.

Getting back to the retevis RT6 - tested it with my 6 year old for distance: no I didn't tell her to go as far away as she can . She was at home with the wife and I was driving away. Got a mile - consider that I'm in aetal bucket and she's in a house that's full of electronics with other houses between her and me. I think it did pretty good.

Gonna play some more with the radtel - but I think that's going to be the winner.


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## K7JLJ (Sep 25, 2018)

For me, a short range is a GOOD thing for HTs as they are likely to be used around your AO and the less people who hear that signal the better. If I hear a VHF signal, I "know" it's within 2 miles right? If I could get a .25w signal like the old VX-3R I'd do it in a minute. That was a great radio for analog for preppers.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I totally get the need for short range - for that i can easily drop the transmit power - my 'compound' is small enough that I could tell, thought that would give everyone clue as to what's up. 

Putting on my ghillie suit and blending into the background, I'll have to state that it would be nice for the radio to have a 2-3 mile range in order to be able to communicate with 'scout parties' and 'other friendly compounds'. Yes, the radio traffic is not secure in general, but with some carefully crafted code words that can easily be a non issue.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I have been seeing these tactical antennas out there and kept thinking that I want to try one. Mentioned that to a buddy of mine who said he tried one and was happy with the results (perceived - not measured).

So I went ahead and ordered https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087M1R4S3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_aQU3Fb4AMHBB6?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

So here's my perceived and not measured with a meter results:. With a stock antenna I couldn't reach this one repeater that's 35 miles away. Put on this one and even while folded I was able to hit the repeater


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Ok, update - I like the RT480 radio so much I ordered another one to have a pair of them.

So now my radio count is 
Radtel RT480 x2
Baoefeng UV5R x3 (can't find one of them btw)
Baoefeng BF888 x2
Yaesu VX6 x1

This gives me a cache of 8 radios. For the UV5s i have 2 spare batteries and one AA clamshell. For the RT480s I have 2 spares on the way from China.

The rt480s have an encryption option - will have to test that out.

The 480s will be my primaries and rest will be spares or ones that I will hand out to folks on as needed basis.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Played with the encryption. Really cool feature! Other radios will receive transmission but they won't be able to understand anything. Not sure if the various encryption methods are unique to this manufacturer or they're generic to the point that folks with radios that support encryption will be able to crack it by trial and error.


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

Wedrownik said:


> Played with the encryption. Really cool feature! Other radios will receive transmission but they won't be able to understand anything. Not sure if the various encryption methods are unique to this manufacturer or they're generic to the point that folks with radios that support encryption will be able to crack it by trial and error.


It's not really encryption but voice inversion. Our Puxing HTs have the "8 scrambler settings" option the same as your Radtels, no idea if they'd be compatible or not but would be interesting to know. Our Yaesu base and mobile radios also have a 4 setting voice scrambler, but none of the voice inversion settings between the Puxings and the Yaesus are compatible (which kinda sucks for us).

Voice inversion is fairly easy to unscramble even without a compatible radio, but it takes time and some extra resources. There's software available that can descramble it from a recorded file, and at least one SDR manufacturer has add-on software that can do it too. Neither allows 'automatic' descrambling, they'd have to adjust the software settings by trial and error to uninvert it enough to be able to understand it (but it doesn't have to be perfectly uninverted to be able to understand it either, just "close enough" until you can understand the words works too). I tested this by recording our scrambled communications with a scanner, then saving the recording to an audio file on my computer, then using a freeware descrambler program to unscramble it. After getting the audio recording copied to the computer, only took about a minute of fiddling with the software settings while looping the message to be able to understand it clearly.

But if the 'other guys' listening aren't anticipating it, it can be pretty secure for short tactical-type communications. Like, "Lay down some cover fire so I can get behind the hill on their left flank". Unless they already knew your frequency and the scrambler setting you were using then it really doesn't matter if they descramble that message minutes or hours later, the value in it already expired by then. Just don't use it around your AO until you really need to, test that it works and practice with it when you're out of town. The more you use it around your AO, the more likely someone will notice and go to the trouble of being prepared to descramble it when you really need it to work.

Good thread BTW, thanks.


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## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

Eyeball said:


> Thanks, and a follow-up question would be how do we power our walkie-talkies in a future post-apoc world when all the batteries have run out?
> Even if we have rechargeable batteries, how do we recharge them after the national electricity grid has gone dead?


Buy some solar powered lights that are used to be placed along your sidewalk, driveway, or other places in your yard. Many of these are powered by Rechargeable AA batteries that are charged during the daylight hours by the small solar panel on top of the unit. Many of them allows you to switch off the L.E.D. light so that it becomes strictly a solar battery charger. Buy handhelds that will also operate off of some AA batteries and problem solved. Can also be helpful for light sources.

I too am a firm believer in handheld radios for group communications, even if regardless if the manufacturer claims it's good for 35 miles but you can only get yours to operation dependably for 1 mile. You can get them with an ear phone and it could be very handy if you could communicate with members who are out of site, say you are on one side of a building and they are on another.


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## Notold63 (Sep 18, 2016)

SGG said:


> Why are you asking a basic question that's been covered here on this forum and probably on every survivalist bored and even every gaming forum?
> I figured poor old Spike would know basic crap like that. Interesting. Just kidding


I thought one of the reasons for this forum was to answer some basic questions of those coming into life style.


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## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

Notold63 said:


> I thought one of the reasons for this forum was to answer some basic questions of those coming into life style.


I was responding to a troll who has since been banned from this forum. I should have just left well enough alone and not responded at all.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Notold63 said:


> Buy some solar powered lights that are used to be placed along your sidewalk, driveway, or other places in your yard. Many of these are powered by Rechargeable AA batteries that are charged during the daylight hours by the small solar panel on top of the unit. Many of them allows you to switch off the L.E.D. light so that it becomes strictly a solar battery charger. Buy handhelds that will also operate off of some AA batteries and problem solved. Can also be helpful for light sources.


That is an amazing suggestion. I haven't though of this before but that's a great idea. Might have to do some modifications as I'm afraid that the charger might not be the best and could ruin the battery in a long run, but it's a good starting point.

Regarding the radios, here's the rub- the UV5s I have a AA shell for. The Yaesu, someplace I have a AA shell for, the 888s and 480s I do not. On the other hand I have solar on the house and I know how to bypass the grid cutout that disables the solar generation during grid outage, I also have two generators and I'm looking to build a solar charging case inside which I can charge batteries.



> I too am a firm believer in handheld radios for group communications, even if regardless if the manufacturer claims it's good for 35 miles but you can only get yours to operation dependably for 1 mile. You can get them with an ear phone and it could be very handy if you could communicate with members who are out of site, say you are on one side of a building and they are on another.


I look at the handheld radios to provide up to 2 mile range. Anything outside of that is a bonus.

I see advertised Baoefeng radios with supposed 10W and higher output on a handheld and I chuckle. For one the battery drain would be amazingly high, and also while you might have high power output (which I doubt) the antenna is another problem. But here we're getting down into the weeds.


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

Wedrownik said:


> That is an amazing suggestion. I haven't though of this before but that's a great idea. Might have to do some modifications as I'm afraid that the charger might not be the best and could ruin the battery in a long run, but it's a good starting point.


Figure 2 weeks or more to charge a 2400 mAh AA battery that's 50% drained from one of the solar lights. YMMV, but I tested a couple different types of solar lights and the best one only produced 16-18 mA of current when aimed at the sun on a sunny day.










70+ hours of full sun to charge a battery from 1200 mAh to 2400 mAh at that rate.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I am playing with a 28watt solar panel now and I am waiting for a Lithium Ion battery pack that has 2W12V output to see if I can use it to power up the chargers. Hoping for shorter charge time


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Got an Apache box from Harbor Freight and set it up for two of the UV5r's and two of the RT480's. Btw for the life of me I can't find my third UV5R... I set it down someplace after I finished programming it and that's the last I saw it...


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Wedrownik said:


> I am playing with a 28watt solar panel now and I am waiting for a Lithium Ion battery pack that has 2W12V output to see if I can use it to power up the chargers. Hoping for shorter charge time


UV5R charger bases use 10vDC.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

I know. Thinking about building a step down circuit.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Wedrownik said:


> I know. Thinking about building a step down circuit.


There are USB cords made to charge them that step 5V up to 10V. So any USB port will do.... but they're not very fast charging.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Wedrownik said:
> 
> 
> > I know. Thinking about building a step down circuit.
> ...


I just remembered that the big spare batteries that I have take a cigarette lighter cable to charge. So this would take care of the uv5s.

The rt480 is a 12V .5A base which depending on a panel I'd use could work direct. One of the other toys I just picked up is a lithium "solar generator" (whoever came up with that term though? It's a big fat battery pack with 110AC, 12VDC and 5VDC out. I picked up short cables to go to the 12V direct.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

Btw a circuit for stepping down is easy:
With R1 being 20ohms and R2 being 100ohms and the input being 12V, output is 10V


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

What????
Now my head hurts, and I am feeling dumber than I ever did.


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## Wedrownik (Sep 22, 2020)

MisterMills357 said:


> What????
> Now my head hurts, and I am feeling dumber than I ever did.


This is a circuit that allows you to step down 12VDC to 10VDC


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## Captjim_NM (Oct 31, 2020)

I use a solar panel and controller to charge a sealed lead-acid battery. The battery fits into a lunch box and I carry my HT and portable HF station in a back pack.


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