# I'm Beginning to Wonder



## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Three of my five grandchildren hold dual citizenships in the US and Germany. With the new tax laws taxing US citizens even if they do not live in the US, do not earn money in the US and do not own any assets in the US which country will they chose?

They can keep their dual citizenship until they become 18 then they must pick a country.

Before 2008 I would have never thought I would even speculate on the choice.

There are thousands of Us citizens that have zero income connections to the US. Yet they will be required to file US tax returns and foreign institutions are required to report to the IRS all accounts and assets held by US citizens.

Surge in Americans Giving Up Passports as Rules Loom - Businessweek


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Trending Now: Giving Up U.S. Citizenship - Forbes


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Boy You have me at a loss on that one. Four years ago I would have given you a five paragraph dress down about why you cannot be a "dual citizen". You cannot have loyalties to two countries. etc. etc. etc. Now I am not so sure... If the choice was Germany and U.S., I have no doubt which way I would go - U.S. But there are a few others where freedom is on the rise and they actually have functioning economies to allow one to make money.

Hell, even Canada, who I always wrote off as our good libtard neighbor to the north came in with an economic freedom index higher than the U.S. I could not move to a country with socialized medicine and a limit on free speech, but from a recent business trip to Calgary, that may be changing too. From talking to some of the Alberta guys, they hate socialized medicine even more than me (and that is tough nut to crack) and they spoke pretty freely. I like Alberta A LOT! - They are basically Canada's version of Texas, but they do not mince words to be polite. If all of Canada was Alberta, I would move there in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, there is eastern Ontario and Quebec.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Inor said:


> Boy You have me at a loss on that one. Four years ago I would have given you a five paragraph dress down about why you cannot be a "dual citizen". You cannot have loyalties to two countries. etc. etc. etc. Now I am not so sure... If the choice was Germany and U.S., I have no doubt which way I would go - U.S. But there are a few others where freedom is on the rise and they actually have functioning economies to allow one to make money.
> 
> Hell, even Canada, who I always wrote off as our good libtard neighbor to the north came in with an economic freedom index higher than the U.S. I could not move to a country with socialized medicine and a limit on free speech, but from a recent business trip to Calgary, that may be changing too. From talking to some of the Alberta guys, they hate socialized medicine even more than me (and that is tough nut to crack) and they spoke pretty freely. I like Alberta A LOT! - They are basically Canada's version of Texas, but they do not mince words to be polite. If all of Canada was Alberta, I would move there in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, there is eastern Ontario and Quebec.


When I was working up there on the Northern border I would make routine trips up to Canada to parole in Canadian citizens for medical care in the US because they couldn't get the needed care in Canada under their socialized medicine. I have been doing some research on where would I go if I had to leave the country and I like Malta. They allow guns and have a stable economy.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Meangreen said:


> I have been doing some research on where would I go if I had to leave the country and I like Malta. They allow guns and have a stable economy.


That works. I have been thinking about Belize, but I do not like proximity to Guatemala.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Belize would work but I'm seeing a lot more extortion on US citizens there.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

What are the two tax rates of the two countries?

If they choose to live in Germany, work there and make a life there I can see them renouncing US citizenship because of the added idiotic burden, but if they plan to live and earn in America our effective highest end tax rate is probably lower than Germany's.

from wiki
Income tax rate in 2010[edit source]

No income tax is charged on the basic allowance, which is €8,004 for unmarried persons and €16,008 for jointly assessed married couples. Beyond this threshold, the marginal tax rate increases linearly from 14% to 24% for a taxable income of €13,469 (€26,938 for married couples). In the subsequent interval up to a taxable income of €52,881 (€105,762 for married couples), the marginal tax rate increases linearly from 24% to 42%. The last change of rates occurs at a taxable income of €250,730 (€501,460 for married couples) when the marginal tax rate jumps from 42% to 45%. The course of the marginal tax rate and the resulting average tax rate are depicted in the graph to the right.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Regardless if I it would not require giving up my guns I'd be retired in the UK. My time working there was the best time of my working career. But if you think our manufacturing base is hurting you should look at the UK.

I have great respect for the British people. They will accept you, help you and treat you as their guest regardless of their own hardship. But they too have and continue to shoot themselves in the foot. And like us emigration and education are the hot topics of complaint.

But all that aside until recently a change in citizenship would have been crazy in my mind.


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## KingM (Aug 1, 2013)

Meangreen said:


> When I was working up there on the Northern border I would make routine trips up to Canada to parole in Canadian citizens for medical care in the US because they couldn't get the needed care in Canada under their socialized medicine. I have been doing some research on where would I go if I had to leave the country and I like Malta. They allow guns and have a stable economy.


Except that it's a small, desert-like island with lots of people and sitting off the coast of Africa. Look at the violent history of the place and extrapolate that into the future for you and your descendants.


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