# A Conversation on Citizens



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I pulled into the Krispy Kreme donut shop in Dothan, this afternoon. I was hoping they would still be making the pumpkin cake donuts, but I was sorely disappointed. As I was backing out of the parking spot, I had to slam on brakes because of some idiot in an SUV was doing well over 40 miles an hour in the parking lot as he was trying to avoid a traffic light. He would have slammed into Wifey's side had I not seen the idiot and stopped. At the very least, she would have been seriously injured. I was armed, and the idiot behind the wheel of the SUV would have most certainly been seriously injured if not dead.

While traversing the circle (The four laner that circles Dothan) I witnessed several textbook incidents of redlight-runnings and improper lane changes. Guess the number of wrecks I saw along the way.

I made it back to the highway to go back to my little town up the road twenty miles. The only ones who were driving in a courteous manner were the _speeders_! The very ones who are most likely to get stopped and issued a citation are the ones who were not following too closely, were not blocking traffic by staying in the left lane, were not talking or texting on their cell phones or doing any of the other stupid things the rest of the idiots were doing.

Who among us does not travel by automobile? Call it motor vehicle, if you prefer. Speaking of motor vehicle, how many of you have read some of my monotonous responses in cop threads where I moan about the difference between constitutional laws, codes and regulations, and that citizens (sovereign citizens, if you prefer) should not be subjected to stops by cops for anything less than felonies unless there is an injured party, a signed and sworn-to affidavit and an arrest warrant issued by a judge, but at the same time, pointed out that it is the ignorance of the citizens and not the practice of the cops that is causing the rise in tyranny in this nation?

Look around this nation, today. What do you see? Do you see a culture of self-disciplining, courteous, respectful citizens, or do you see a bunch of self-absorbed, undisciplined people who see nothing but themselves as being important?

I used to eat donuts and roll in a patrol car, long ago. I can't tell you how many times I was asked, "Why aren't you doing real law enforcement instead of stopping me?" when I stopped someone for doing something really stupid on the road. My answer? "Well, I was on my way to patrol through a housing area but I had to divert my attention because someone was putting other people's lives at risk."

The point I am making? We, the People, are in a very sad and sorry state. We whine about freedom and rights, but how many of our countrymen would be the cause of others' deaths were cops to stop enforcing those unconstitutional traffic codes that are enforced more on private citizens than they are on who are actually conducting commercial activity?

Sure, you can blame it on the public education system, the entertainment industry, bad parenting or even magic unicorns who refuse to pee rainbows on everyone, but at the end of the day, it makes no difference. What do you call a nation of people who only behave in a safe manner because of the fear of being issued a traffic ticket?

So, what is your fix for the problem? Or, do you think this society has been too tainted, too dumbed down, too far far gone to be retaught how to be good citizens?

As I write this, my windows are rattling because of some idiot's boom box on wheels on the street a quarter mile away.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

By the way, you will not read another post from me about cops stopping people due to commercial code violations until people learn to conduct themselves with proper courtesy and discipline so that we all can travel safely and happily.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I think most of us make an occasional mistake while driving, probably more than we admit even to ourselves. If I get a ticket for some error I make, so be it. If I get a cop screaming his lungs out, threatening me, searching my car without cause, getting physical like that jerk in Saratoga Springs, NY then we aren't talking about a traffic stop any more. We're talking assault under color of law. With the exception of being struck I have experienced all of that and it simply isn't justified for making a mistake in traffic as we all have done.

I'd suggest that if you were as angry as you describe yourself after the near miss in the parking lot, you would be ill advised to make a stop at that point. It is tough to be professional while losing your cool and instead of teaching the miscreant about driving you are more likely to give another person a reason to be anti-cop, whether that is your intent or not.

On the other hand, I don't get the sense that is the kind of person you are, so I'm not too worried about you doing something that stupid.

BTW: The number one cause of death for cops is traffic accidents, so those who live in glass houses, . . .


----------



## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

Denton, I honestly believe for a change to happen we are going to have to hit rock bottom and get back to decent morals and values. The ones that we put others first. I have to admit when I worked patrol I loved working traffic, with DUI's being my favorite. Although I wrote my share(and maybe some others too) of speeding tickets I gave what I thought was a fair overage of speed before I even thought about stopping someone. Nearly 30 years ago the small department I worked for said not to stop a car until they to 7 miles over. I decided that was not enough, I gave a minimum of 15 miles per hour over. As a traffic crash reconstructionist and helping my dad run a towing service in my younger years I learned of the destruction to lives and property that happened because of inconsiderate drivers. As I progressed in years and wisdom(I hope) I realized not every speeder needs a ticket.

Thoughout the years I have tried to abide by this in my personal life. I try extremely hard to set an example by my driving. Even though I could get out of a ticket by flashing a badge, I don't because I don't speed . On long trips I set my cruise to 2-3 over to keep from being ran over. I try to be a good citizen first which I think and hope helps me be a better law officer. I also try to keep the good values and morals I was taught by my betters.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Let's get something perfectly clear. I am not a cop, anymore. As I stated, I used to be. That I am armed when I leave the house does not mean I am now a cop; it means I am a good American.

I didn't describe an "occasional mistake" but what is the typical mindset of today's average citizen, it can be argued, and easily argued. I am only 51 years old, but the changes I have witnessed in those few years tells me this nation has degenerated to such a thing that requires a heavier hand than what the founders ever imagined. They expected the nation to remain a pious, religious nation with the good sense to place societal health above personal demands or carnal desire. That is to say, the founders hoped we would not lose our discipline.

The form of governance they created was meant for no other sort and wholly inadequate for any other.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

midtnfamilyguy said:


> Denton, I honestly believe for a change to happen we are going to have to hit rock bottom and get back to decent morals and values. The ones that we put others first. I have to admit when I worked patrol I loved working traffic, with DUI's being my favorite. Although I wrote my share(and maybe some others too) of speeding tickets I gave what I thought was a fair overage of speed before I even thought about stopping someone. Nearly 30 years ago the small department I worked for said not to stop a car until they to 7 miles over. I decided that was not enough, I gave a minimum of 15 miles per hour over. As a traffic crash reconstructionist and helping my dad run a towing service in my younger years I learned of the destruction to lives and property that happened because of inconsiderate drivers. As I progressed in years and wisdom(I hope) I realized not every speeder needs a ticket.
> 
> Thoughout the years I have tried to abide by this in my personal life. I try extremely hard to set an example by my driving. Even though I could get out of a ticket by flashing a badge, I don't because I don't speed . On long trips I set my cruise to 2-3 over to keep from being ran over. I try to be a good citizen first which I think and hope helps me be a better law officer. I also try to keep the good values and morals I was taught by my betters.


You, sir, are admirable. One of the very few cops who I can say has earned that description. I can say without a doubt I did not!


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

From a sister board, an example of what is today, that would not have been tolerated in the days of my youth....

"Git" Destroys Dollar Store


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

My word for the day is "Pendosta" if I got it right....


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

oddapple said:


> My word for the day is "Pendosta" if I got it right....


Cryptic speak. Yes, clear as a bell.


----------



## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

Just the other a day, while I was off, we had a near riot in our town. It seems that a sporting good store here had received a shipment of some special sport shoe and it was the only store around that had them. A bunch of thugs camped out at out local mall the night before. JC penny's opened before the sporting goods store and when the doors opened these thugs rushed to the inside door going into the mall. When they found it shut, everything went down hill. It ended up with all city and county units working to respond to restore order and prevent more damage. All over some shoes! And this is the world we live in where this is an everyday occurrence somewhere.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Yuppers, and we see such demonstrations of civility every year on Black Friday. Didn't used to be that way; people used to have a modicum of respect for themselves and others. What do we see, today?


----------



## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Trash comes in all colors anymore...
A Pendosta is a helpless adult idiot utterly dependent on all modern features and worthless life skills. That's what Putin says we are full of...
(Sorry. Should have provided guidance...)


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

oddapple said:


> Trash comes in all colors anymore...
> A Pendosta is a helpless adult idiot utterly dependent on all modern features and worthless life skills. That's what Putin says we are full of...
> (Sorry. Should have provided guidance...)


This, what we loosely refer to as a culture, is in much worse shape than simply being a group of such people. Could there be a connection?


----------



## midtnfamilyguy (Nov 17, 2012)

oddapple said:


> Trash comes in all colors anymore...
> A Pendosta is a helpless adult idiot utterly dependent on all modern features and worthless life skills. That's what Putin says we are full of...
> (Sorry. Should have provided guidance...)


When I was in High School a black friend of mine told us his thoughts on people. He said you have n*****s and you have blacks, just like you have white trash and whites. One group works for what they have, are honest, respectful and overall good people. The others want everything gave to them for free. This was over 30 years ago and it still sticks with me.


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

When we as a people stop being sheep, and root out the culture of more and better, we will once again rise.
Until most of population realizes that the government works for us, and we as a people make the rules, and not just realize, but ENFORCE, then we will slowly keep giving away our rights. Not loosing, giving away. 
A little off subject, but I had to chime in. 
Denton, you donut lover, answer the gathering 2015 thread.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Let's get something perfectly clear. I am not a cop, anymore. As I stated, I used to be. That I am armed when I leave the house does not mean I am now a cop; it means I am a good American.
> 
> I didn't describe an "occasional mistake" but what is the typical mindset of today's average citizen, it can be argued, and easily argued. I am only 51 years old, but the changes I have witnessed in those few years tells me this nation has degenerated to such a thing that requires a heavier hand than what the founders ever imagined. They expected the nation to remain a pious, religious nation with the good sense to place societal health above personal demands or carnal desire. That is to say, the founders hoped we would not lose our discipline.
> 
> The form of governance they created was meant for no other sort and wholly inadequate for any other.


My mistake on the current vs. Former LEO. However, as I read your opening post you experienced a bunch of people making mistakes while driving. Do you think any of them woke up and said "I'm going to drive stupidly today". That is as likely as the cop who wakes up and says "I'm going to beat up some innocent person today."

A close call is going to give you an adrenaline dump. Let it pass. It will be better for your health.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Deebo said:


> When we as a people stop being sheep, and root out the culture of more and better, we will once again rise.
> Until most of population realizes that the government works for us, and we as a people make the rules, and not just realize, but ENFORCE, then we will slowly keep giving away our rights. Not loosing, giving away.
> A little off subject, but I had to chime in.
> Denton, you donut lover, answer the gathering 2015 thread.


Brother, there is no way I could travel that far, this year. I wish I could.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> My mistake on the current vs. Former LEO. However, as I read your opening post you experienced a bunch of people making mistakes while driving. Do you think any of them woke up and said "I'm going to drive stupidly today". That is as likely as the cop who wakes up and says "I'm going to beat up some innocent person today."
> 
> A close call is going to give you an adrenaline dump. Let it pass. It will be better for your health.


Clearly, I let it pass. The only reason I broke off from seriously stepping over the line was my wife saying, "He ain't worth it."

You seem to be focusing in on one small account of the OP. You are trying to say that a couple incidents of stupidity has nothing to do with the whole. Is that what you are saying? You'd better think about your answer before you respond.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Clearly, I let it pass. The only reason I broke off from seriously stepping over the line was my wife saying, "He ain't worth it."
> 
> You seem to be focusing in on one small account of the OP. You are trying to say that a couple incidents of stupidity has nothing to do with the whole. Is that what you are saying? You'd better think about your answer before you respond.


Everyone is stupid from time to time, albeit some more than others. Going all road rage over it won't change that.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> Everyone is stupid from time to time, albeit some more than others. Going all road rage over it won't change that.


So, do not cops get the same pass, if that is the case?


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The thing against which you rail are societal, but those which I speak are societal. Check mate.


----------



## TxBorderCop (Nov 19, 2012)

midtnfamilyguy said:


> When I was in High School a black friend of mine told us his thoughts on people. He said you have n*****s and you have blacks, just like you have white trash and whites. One group works for what they have, are honest, respectful and overall good people. The others want everything gave to them for free. This was over 30 years ago and it still sticks with me.


I think we had the exact same friend.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> So, do not cops get the same pass, if that is the case?


Occasionally yes. When it becomes a pattern, no. Same with people in general. It also depends on the nature of the stupidity. Break into my house and I might be the one going road rage on you. Screw up in traffic and I'll probably just mutter expletives to the windshield.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> Occasionally yes. When it becomes a pattern, no. Same with people in general. It also depends on the nature of the stupidity. Break into my house and I might be the one going road rage on you. Screw up in traffic and I'll probably just mutter expletives to the windshield.


If that be the case, get off the cops' asses and pay attention of you fellow countrymen's stupidity! Fix the more important thing and then worry about the cops!!!!


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

May it not take you five takes.....


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> If that be the case, get off the cops' asses and pay attention of you fellow countrymen's stupidity! Fix the more important thing and then worry about the cops!!!!


I have never opened a thread on the topic. I have had police break into my house. Afterward I would have been pacified with an apology and assurance it would not happen again. Unfortunately, the police refused to investigate my complaint, so I never got that assurance. If my local PD would simply have assured me that there would be no further break ins, I would have been satisfied. Instead, I have had to worry ever since about when another break in might occur.

I'll lighten up on the police when I no longer need to worry about incidents like that occurring again. At this point that seems unlikely.

Meanwhile, the police nationwide have gone SWAT crazy, brealing into homes, shooting dogs and occasionally people, causing extensive property damage and even one incident where a baby was critically burned by a grenade tossed in a crib. I would be crazy not to be concerned that a SWAT team might invade my home, kill me and walk away without any consequence. The jurisdiction with the burned baby is still refusing to cover the child's medical bills. I am not so foolish as to think I am immune to such treatment. I am more concerned about being attacked by police than by criminals. (That is not an overstatement.)

There is no accountability. The police are not even trying to make things right. They're not Law Enforcement when there is no Rule of Law applying to them


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

You keep harping about the baby in the crib, which was a terrible accident, but it was an ACCIDENT. It's not as though the police purposely threw a grenade into a baby's crib. The baby's parent was in fact a violent criminal, and the "crib" was in the front room.  As for the police refusing to pay it's medical bills, that is NOT up to the Police Department, it goes to the City's lawyers. 

As for your problems with the police breaking into your home, GET A LAWYER. Sue them. If you haven't spoken to a lawyer, why not, and if you have, why aren't you suing them? Call me skeptical. 

As for shooting dogs, I too get upset when Police shoot a dog, but in all fairness, if I was an armed officer serving a warrant and a pit bull attacked me, I would shoot it, even though the dog would only be doing what it was supposed to. The truth is that many Police are too quick to shoot pets/dogs but at the same time there are way to many dog owners who don't control them. 

I am all in favor and fully encourage people to sue Police Officers who do wrong. Whining and bit*hing about their conduct is not going to change a thing. Complain to the Police Department and if nothing is done, SUE THEM. Cost them money. Then you will see some changes. I generally think that our Society is way too quick to sue people, but suing misconduct by Government officials, especially Police Officers is one area where I strongly encourage people to sue when they have a LEGITIMATE complaint.

Finally, as I have posted before, if most of your experiences with Police Officers has been negative then perhaps you should ask yourself the same question that someone who has been married 3 or 4 times should ask themselves: "Could the problem be me?". 

Final


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Denton said:


> Let's get something perfectly clear. I am not a cop, anymore. As I stated, I used to be. That I am armed when I leave the house does not mean I am now a cop; it means I am a good American.
> 
> I didn't describe an "occasional mistake" but what is the typical mindset of today's average citizen, it can be argued, and easily argued. I am only 51 years old, but the changes I have witnessed in those few years tells me this nation has degenerated to such a thing that requires a heavier hand than what the founders ever imagined. They expected the nation to remain a pious, religious nation with the good sense to place societal health above personal demands or carnal desire. That is to say, the founders hoped we would not lose our discipline.
> 
> The form of governance they created was meant for no other sort and wholly inadequate for any other.


Your last line is the paraphrased quote of Thomas Jefferson writing about the Constitution. But I'm sure you knew that. I was merely pointing it out for some of the younger members who have more recently attended public schools.
My, how far away have we gotten from the original intent of Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, and the others.
I have a few years on you, and can trace this back to the atheist woman, Madilyn Murray O'Hair and her successful, many year campaign to rid public schools of prayer. Emboldened by what they saw, liberals, starting under LBJ, have continually attacked the fabric of America ever since and have in my opinion successfully destroyed it.

America is so far gone from what it was envisioned to be and has sunk to such lows of hedonism and depravity that I am sickened.
I was born too late, I wish my war had been WWII. Then I would not be around to see the ultimate degredation of the county I love.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Notsoyoung said:


> You keep harping about the baby in the crib, which was a terrible accident, but it was an ACCIDENT. It's not as though the police purposely threw a grenade into a baby's crib. The baby's parent was in fact a violent criminal, and the "crib" was in the front room. As for the police refusing to pay it's medical bills, that is NOT up to the Police Department, it goes to the City's lawyers.
> 
> As for your problems with the police breaking into your home, GET A LAWYER. Sue them. If you haven't spoken to a lawyer, why not, and if you have, why aren't you suing them? Call me skeptical.
> 
> ...


When the police responsible for that baby's injuries pick up the medical tab I'll accept it as an accident. Until then the result is unacceptable. The police are supposed to protect lives not destroy them. If they can't correct for their own screwups they shouldn't be engaged in SWAT raids..

Shooting dogs is now routine both as part of SWAT raids and when SWAT is not involved. It isn't about pit bulls. It is about target practice on living targets.

As for my own case I did get a lawyer and I did sue. The main result of the settlement is that if they enter my home again I'll have a basis for claiming a pattern of harassment and specific individuals are named so that if they start to engage in any other form of harassment I will again be able to claim a pattern of harassment.

However, why should I have to sue in order to get them to investigate a criminal complaint? If the claim was against anyone other than a cop that would be unnecessary. Lawsuits cost money..

Understand that all the assurance I would have needed to end the matter is for someone in charge to say "I'm sorry, we will take steps to insure it won't happen again.". That's all I wanted and I never got it. If that had happened my only beef would be with the individual officer, not the entire department.

My trust could have been preserved, but they just don't care whether I trust them or not. They have convinced me that the most likely form of home invasion that I may experience is one by the police. My actual experience to date: Home invasions by police = 1. Home invasions by criminals = 0.


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

If someone sues the police, won't the police target them for every last little thing in the book? They could make your life a living hell if they wanted to... Just curious.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> If someone sues the police, won't the police target them for every last little thing in the book? They could make your life a living hell if they wanted to... Just curious.


They can but doing so establishes a pattern of harassment and gives credibility to the complaint..


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Would it be considered harassment if all interactions had valid reasons? Like a bad taillight or speeding a few mph over. Or they could just follow you around while they're on patrol. Do you think a judge would call that harassment and punish the officers involved for just "doing their jobs"?


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> Speaking of motor vehicle, how many of you have read some of my monotonous responses in cop threads where I moan about the difference between constitutional laws, codes and regulations, and that citizens (sovereign citizens, if you prefer) should not be subjected to stops by cops for anything less than felonies unless there is an injured party, a signed and sworn-to affidavit and an arrest warrant issued by a judge, but at the same time, pointed out that it is the ignorance of the citizens and not the practice of the cops that is causing the rise in tyranny in this nation?


I had a large argument one time with a couple of people...I was making the point that a charge of DUI was bad and that DUI check points were wrong...

DUI is a charge because of the government....making it a legal for the police and court to charge you and fine you....

The charge should be assault, involuntary manslaughter, or property damage, reckless driving... depending on how bad an accident is or if they see you driving badly...but IMHO the police should not be able to set up a road block and search you without cause.

I also disagree with the requirement for a drivers license and insurance...


----------



## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

As a paramedic for too many years, I understand where you're coming from, Denton. I got to pick up the pieces after a "mistake" or being in a hurry, or talking on the cell phone ruined somebody's day or life. I make plenty of mistakes in my life, but I vowed (and have kept) to never drink if I was going to be driving, never talk on the cell phone while driving, and to never have sex while driving (or watch others having sex while I was driving). To my point of view, talking or texting on a cell phone are the most insidious. It's such a simple "mistake". Thirty years ago, I became the "old fart" doing the limit in front of you. I just can't justify putting myself, my family or you in danger just to get to the bank one minutes earlier.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> Would it be considered harassment if all interactions had valid reasons? Like a bad taillight or speeding a few mph over. Or they could just follow you around while they're on patrol. Do you think a judge would call that harassment and punish the officers involved for just "doing their jobs"?


For certain officers it would be a violation of our settlement, for others a judge would need to decide.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Diver! Can't you read? Do you see the title of this thread? It is a conversation on citizens, not cops. You are in the wrong thread.

This thread is about the degenerated culture that must be policed as it is too stupid and self-centered to not be policed. First, fix that, then the policing of it will fix itself.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Couple facing murder charges in infant's starvation death - FOX 13 News

What a sad thing to read. Almost seems to be a caricature of the societal condition, though.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Diver! Can't you read? Do you see the title of this thread? It is a conversation on citizens, not cops. You are in the wrong thread.
> 
> This thread is about the degenerated culture that must be policed as it is too stupid and self-centered to not be policed. First, fix that, then the policing of it will fix itself.


The police are part and parcel of that degenerated culture. We can disagree over whether the citizens or the cops are more degenerate. I think when police violate the Bill of Rights, the problem isn't that people drive poorly.

After my first response, basically sympathizing with your feeling of road rage, I have been basically responding to you and others who have directed questions or comments to me.


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Denton said:


> Sure, you can blame it on the public education system, the entertainment industry, bad parenting or even magic unicorns who refuse to pee rainbows on everyone, but at the end of the day, it makes no difference. What do you call a nation of people who only behave in a safe manner because of the fear of being issued a traffic ticket?
> 
> So, what is your fix for the problem? Or, do you think this society has been too tainted, too dumbed down, too far far gone to be retaught how to be good citizens?


All those things have worked well together to cause this breakdown of our society.

I also think that government handouts are to blame. People would rather sit at home than go out and earn a living. This degrades personal responsibility and promotes entitlement. Both of those side effects help to ruin a society.

Also, it seems to be harder to do business in America due to taxation and over regulation. This causes a number of bad things to happen.

I don't know how to fix it, or if it's even fixable. I think it would help to reform public education and the way handouts are handed out. Change the tax laws to promote more business both foreign and domestic. Then maybe people will start behaving more responsibly.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> All those things have worked well together to cause this breakdown of our society.
> 
> I also think that government handouts are to blame. People would rather sit at home than go out and earn a living. This degrades personal responsibility and promotes entitlement. Both of those side effects help to ruin a society.
> 
> ...


I believe fixing it starts with a dramatic reduction of government at all levels. The people would then sort themselves out.


----------



## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Active parenting and a belief system would be a good start. I am not just talking about the Sunday do gooders. A belief in something other than TV, video games, movie stars and football stars. 

Every generation seems to get worse and lazier. Lack of active parenting is a huge problem in this country. I see it every day! You don't have to whip a kid to keep them in line. My sister has never hit her children but they are well behaved and understand respect. With all the stupid shows on TV now how can you expect children to have morals and respect? Who are they learning from? The public school system is a joke they are mostly glorified babysitters now. Yes, I know there are some that are still trying to teach but when you have a class room of kids that are more interested in their phones, celebrity gossip and facebook it is hard to keep their attention.

I worked hard as a kid, chores, mowing lawns, taking care of my sister and going to school. Most kids don't do that now. They play video games, sit in front of the computer or TV. What happened to family time, life lessons, common sense and respect? 

Bring some sort of belief system back, and be true to the path that you have chosen. I don't care if you are Christian, Jewish, Hindu etc. Bring GOD (by whatever name you chose to use) back into the family. 

IMHO that is where we need to start and the thing we have the most control over at this point.


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Diver said:


> I believe fixing it starts with a dramatic reduction of government at all levels. The people would then sort themselves out.


I guess that really boils my post down to a nutshell.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

She can't breathe! It might have something to do with her son chopping her head off.

Oldsmar man arrested for decapitating mother, deputies say - WFLA News Channel 8

Shrinking the government won't fix people.


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Denton said:


> She can't breathe! It might have something to do with her son chopping her head off.
> 
> Oldsmar man arrested for decapitating mother, deputies say - WFLA News Channel 8
> 
> Shrinking the government won't fix people.


You sure about that?!?

What do you think about shrinking technology???


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> You sure about that?!?
> 
> What do you think about shrinking technology???


The woman would have fared better had the ax been smaller?


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

No my friend. What has a psychopath chopping mama's head off to do with making the point that shrinking the government not fixing society? One nut job doesn't do it for me. He would have done it off grid no govt or in a Wellsian 1984 utopia. You can't really fix crazy, only medicate it.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Cop shoots "sovereign citizen" at an animal shelter in Dothan, yesterday.



> A disorderly conduct call at the Dothan Animal Shelter ended Tuesday with a Dothan Police officer shooting a man outside the facility.
> Robert Lawrence was identified Tuesday evening as the man shot by a police officer. Lawrence is in critical condition at Southeast Alabama Medical Center.
> According to Dothan police, Lawrence is a sovereign citizen, a group of people who often find themselves at odds with the government.
> A police statement said Lawrence had gone to the animal shelter to turn over a stray animal, but became disorderly when told he could not leave an animal without showing identification. Police say Lawrence was told repeatedly to calm down, then advised he was being placed under arrest. An altercation then occurred and Lawrence was shot in the abdomen.


Man shot at Dothan Animal Shelter identified - Dothan Eagle: Crime Court


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> No my friend. What has a psychopath chopping mama's head off to do with making the point that shrinking the government not fixing society? One nut job doesn't do it for me. He would have done it off grid no govt or in a Wellsian 1984 utopia. You can't really fix crazy, only medicate it.


Oh. I was confused with the shrinking technology thing. Sorry.

Shrinking the government will not instill the ethics, morals and principles that are necessary for a truly free society to exist. These things will not be relearned simply by reducing the size of the government.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Double post. Sorry about that.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> She can't breathe! It might have something to do with her son chopping her head off.
> 
> Oldsmar man arrested for decapitating mother, deputies say - WFLA News Channel 8
> 
> Shrinking the government won't fix people.


Shrinking the government will return us to being a society of free men. Free men can act to solve their own problems. We have a government created mental health problem. Hhow long do you think that would last with an armed society. Mental health cases would have to be harmless, or they would be removed by people protecting themselves. Problem solved. We all know that crime goes down as gun ownership by law abiding citizens goes up. Remove government and gun ownership will climb. How about the War on Drugs? At least a bunch of states have figured out it is lost.

Take education. Is it an accident it started going downhill when the Department of Education was created? How about healthcare? The cost problem started with the formation of Medicare and Medicaid in the 1960s.
How did we get a financial crisis? The government mandated mortgage loans to people who didn't qualify for them. In fact is there any aspect of the economy or managing its own finances the government is doing well? Solving poverty? After 50 years of trying the problem is probably worse.

Look at what most of us are prepping for. Natural disasters? FEMA is a complete waste. EMP or nuclear war? The whole Civil Defense program is in disrepair. Terrorism? I was in the WTC when it was hit the second time. Now that they've put up a new one how long do you think it will be before that gets hit?

Government has two unique characteristics. It can take your freedom or your property against your will and call either action legitimate and have the backing of a large chunk of society. Who needs more of that when it isn't working?

If we get back to limited government there will be a painful withdrawal like a junkie being taken off drugs, but ultimately the degenerate society you complain of will be healthier for having gone through it.


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Denton said:


> Oh. I was confused with the shrinking technology thing. Sorry.
> 
> Shrinking the government will not instill the ethics, morals and principles that are necessary for a truly free society to exist. These things will not be relearned simply by reducing the size of the government.


I respectfully disagree. IMO shrinking the government will instill responsibility back onto the citizenship of our fine nation. That responsibility will naturally lead to a more respectful society thereby reducing the frequency of people driving 40+ mph through parking lots almost killing Mrs Denton. A guy can dream can't he?!


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The size of the government had nothing to do with my observations of yesterday, and there is no reason to believe a smaller government would make people any more disciplined, moral, principled and ethical.

If that be the case, the most admirable people would be those with no government at all. 

In another thread, I pointed out that a conservative professor had been suspended simply because he wrote a conservative article in his blog. That college was a private one. Shrinking the government would not change people's degenerated behavior.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> I respectfully disagree. IMO shrinking the government will instill responsibility back onto the citizenship of our fine nation. That responsibility will naturally lead to a more respectful society thereby reducing the frequency of people driving 40+ mph through parking lots almost killing Mrs Denton. A guy can dream can't he?!


Sure, we can all dream, but the mere fact that no cops were present was enough for the idiot to speed through the parking lot.

A smaller government would better level the playing field regarding domestic businesses, but the majority of the idiots I witnessed appeared to be the types who are employed. More employment won't change that.

A degenerate society requires more government and more policing. I don't think it was by accident that our society was slowly but certainly attacked in the last few decades.


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Denton said:


> Sure, we can all dream, but the mere fact that no cops were present was enough for the idiot to speed through the parking lot.
> 
> A smaller government would better level the playing field regarding domestic businesses, but the majority of the idiots I witnessed appeared to be the types who are employed. More employment won't change that.
> 
> A degenerate society requires more government and more policing. I don't think it was by accident that our society was slowly but certainly attacked in the last few decades.


And that goes full circle back to my statement about shrinking technology! Your usage of the term degenerate society directly correlates with people having their faces glued to a smartphone. Not to mention the increasingly violent media available such as video games and youtube video. There are only so many ISIS beheadings one can watch before desensitization sets in...


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> I respectfully disagree. IMO shrinking the government will instill responsibility back onto the citizenship of our fine nation. That responsibility will naturally lead to a more respectful society thereby reducing the frequency of people driving 40+ mph through parking lots almost killing Mrs Denton. A guy can dream can't he?!


With no cops and minimal traffic rules you would have an adjustment period where people adjusted to the new reality. Most would learn to drive more defensively which coincidentally would be more courteously. Darwin would take care of the rest. After the adjustment period we would be fine.


----------



## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

You have no idea what our country would be like without the forces of law and order. The world as you know it would devolve into savagery with the bands of thugs (yeah the thugs band together) preying on the lone individuals (like you or me or the rest of us) and our families. Things in the populated areas would get so bad that the Governors would be clamoring for Federalization of the Guard to put down the lawlessness.


----------



## Pathwacker (Nov 18, 2014)

Bottom feeder mentality, flash mobs, suicidal martyrs, and yahoo,,huff post publishing racist target Annie clothing ad. 2015 is going to be worse.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> And that goes full circle back to my statement about shrinking technology! Your usage of the term degenerate society directly correlates with people having their faces glued to a smartphone. Not to mention the increasingly violent media available such as video games and youtube video. There are only so many ISIS beheadings one can watch before desensitization sets in...


Conjecture, just as Diver's statement below yours. Seriously, you do not believe this society degenerated due to transistors, do you?

I have a smart phone, a tablet, and a smart TV (which is wholly unnecessary for watching the food channel and Duck Dynasty) but I do not conduct myself as so many do. Is it the texting device that draws the drivers' faces to their crotches as their cars wander all over the place, or is it their total disregard of those around them that is the root cause.

The assault on this nation's ethics, morals and principles was well underway long before the advent of any hi-tech device, and to blame hi-tech doo-dads for today's behavior is likened to blaming the firearm on a robber's evil heart.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> Conjecture, just as Diver's statement below yours. Seriously, you do not believe this society degenerated due to transistors, do you?
> 
> I have a smart phone, a tablet, and a smart TV (which is wholly unnecessary for watching the food channel and Duck Dynasty) but I do not conduct myself as so many do. Is it the texting device that draws the drivers' faces to their crotches as their cars wander all over the place, or is it their total disregard of those around them that is the root cause.
> 
> The assault on this nation's ethics, morals and principles was well underway long before the advent of any hi-tech device, and to blame hi-tech doo-dads for today's behavior is likened to blaming the firearm on a robber's evil heart.


For that matter do you have any evidence that cops are less degenerate than the society from which they are drawn?

Sheer conjecture on your part that they are any better than the rest of us.


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Denton said:


> Conjecture, just as Diver's statement below yours. Seriously, you do not believe this society degenerated due to transistors, do you?
> 
> I have a smart phone, a tablet, and a smart TV (which is wholly unnecessary for watching the food channel and Duck Dynasty) but I do not conduct myself as so many do. Is it the texting device that draws the drivers' faces to their crotches as their cars wander all over the place, or is it their total disregard of those around them that is the root cause.
> 
> The assault on this nation's ethics, morals and principles was well underway long before the advent of any hi-tech device, and to blame hi-tech doo-dads for today's behavior is likened to blaming the firearm on a robber's evil heart.


Ok I get it. All the same I get real tired of seeing people glued to their phones 24/7 in public. They can't even carry on a conversation without interruption. No social skills...


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> For that matter do you have any evidence that cops are less degenerate than the society from which they are drawn?
> 
> Sheer conjecture on your part that they are any better than the rest of us.


Still wanting to talk about cops, are you? Well, let's think for a minute. Do cops come from another planet, or do they come from among us? If the citizenry are less disciplined, less moral and principled, have not the foggiest about the difference between the laws of nature and nature's God and codes/regulations/unconstitutional statues, why should the cop be any better?

Technology didn't do this, as technology is nothing more than a tool.

Take television, for example. One of the sharpest tools used to cut morality out of this nation. Why has it been such a successful tool? Because the TV-watchers allowed it to be that way. People have free will, and they do not have to let garbage into their pea-brains, but they do.

I'm not a victim of anything more than my own decisions, and neither is any other person in this country unless they are children under the age of reason or idiots.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> Ok I get it. All the same I get real tired of seeing people glued to their phones 24/7 in public. They can't even carry on a conversation without interruption. No social skills...


Oh, I agree, 100%.

The same day that peeved me off with the headless drivers also found me barking the command, "MOVE!" to a couple of idiots who were blocking the entrance to a store while gazing at their texting devices. I feel your pain, but their self-centeredness wasn't created by the texting device.

It isn't just kids, either. I hate being in the waiting room of my orthopedic surgeon. It is the blue-haired gang that is the biggest violator of talking loudly on their cell phones. Argh!!! :101:


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

SARGE7402 said:


> You have no idea what our country would be like without the forces of law and order. The world as you know it would devolve into savagery with the bands of thugs (yeah the thugs band together) preying on the lone individuals (like you or me or the rest of us) and our families. Things in the populated areas would get so bad that the Governors would be clamoring for Federalization of the Guard to put down the lawlessness.


Only for a little while, vigilantes would thin them out pretty quick without the threat of prosecution and imprisonment. The government that has been allowed to metastasize allows the immaturity and irresponsibility of many of it's citizens.


----------



## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

jimb1972 said:


> Only for a little while, vigilantes would thin them out pretty quick without the threat of prosecution and imprisonment. The government that has been allowed to metastasize allows the immaturity and irresponsibility of many of it's citizens.


You really don't understand the gang infrastructure - and I'm talking about all gangs from the Mob to the Bloods, to the Crips to the MS13's - and their organization. The only thing keeping them in check - ie from taking total control over segments of the us - is the largest street gang in the US (the Police, Sheriff's etc). Remove them and you're going to see anarchy the likes of which hasn't been seen since the Russian Civil War.

Take a moment and think about your neighborhood. How organized are you and the 50 to 60 families on your couple of blocks of heaven. Makes you wonder doesn't it.

Survival of this great country is going to have to be based on an an organization capable of doing what is right and countering the evil that lurks in the shadows of civilization


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MS-13. Good example. Been reading about that one for several years, now. Very organized, very well armed, and extremely vicious, and imported from Central America; brought here by people who have absolutely no concept of laws of nature and nature's God, and care little to know about them.

Bloods and Crypts. These two gangs made their way into Alabama back in the early 90's and began setting up shop in the large cities. Obviously gangs with the ability to spread throughout the country, maintain organization, be equipped, armed and well funded through their illicit businesses, aren't organizations that will swept aside by unorganized NRA members from the burbs.


----------



## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

SARGE7402 said:


> You really don't understand the gang infrastructure - and I'm talking about all gangs from the Mob to the Bloods, to the Crips to the MS13's - and their organization. The only thing keeping them in check - ie from taking total control over segments of the us - is the largest street gang in the US (the Police, Sheriff's etc). Remove them and you're going to see anarchy the likes of which hasn't been seen since the Russian Civil War.
> 
> Take a moment and think about your neighborhood. How organized are you and the 50 to 60 families on your couple of blocks of heaven. Makes you wonder doesn't it.
> 
> Survival of this great country is going to have to be based on an an organization capable of doing what is right and countering the evil that lurks in the shadows of civilization


I am familiar with them. What allowed them to gain power was an unarmed citizenry. If we started not allowing them across the border and executing all the ones here (handily identified with tattoos) they probably would not last long. The Blood's and Crip's have been known to disappear when they start harassing recent immigrants from some less civilized nations. The government creates the problem and then convinces people to give up their rights so the government can protect them. The criminal justice system protects the evil from the good as much as the good from the evil. The police are trying to do the job for the most part, but there can't be enough police for them to be effective and too many areas look at the police more as a revenue generating organization than an organization to protect the public. 
The laws passed to protect people from themselves are the reason gangs like MS 13 exist, if narcotics were not so profitable and the demand so reliable regardless of laws against them you will have groups seeking to supply the demand. How powerful was organized grime before prohibition? Not very, they had their rackets, protection, prostitution, but for the most part the average citizen was not effected by them. The places they had power was largely because of a corrupt police force.
It all goes back to an immature citizenry unable to be responsible for their own choices and needing protection from themselves, or at least the belief that they can be protected from themselves.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> With no cops and minimal traffic rules you would have an adjustment period where people adjusted to the new reality. Most would learn to drive more defensively which coincidentally would be more courteously. Darwin would take care of the rest. After the adjustment period we would be fine.


Frankly this whole idea is flat out crazy. No Cops? Minimal Traffic rules? Just who is going to enforce these "minimal traffic rules? The whole idea that people would sort it out themselves is so naive that it boggles the mind. How anyone would actually believe that people would just naturally drive more defensively and courteously is beyond me. It would boil down to "he who has the largest vehicle and the most guns in the car has the right of way".

This whole idea of "no Cop", "no traffic laws", "no driver's licenses", and "no car insurance", is bat crap crazy. You do not have a Right to drive a car, and if anyone actually thinks that it would be safer to do without Cops or traffic laws, then it is time for a reality check for them.


----------



## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> Frankly this whole idea is flat out crazy. No Cops? Minimal Traffic rules? Just who is going to enforce these "minimal traffic rules? The whole idea that people would sort it out themselves is so naive that it boggles the mind. How anyone would actually believe that people would just naturally drive more defensively and courteously is beyond me. It would boil down to "he who has the largest vehicle and the most guns in the car has the right of way".
> 
> This whole idea of "no Cop", "no traffic laws", "no driver's licenses", and "no car insurance", is bat crap crazy. You do not have a Right to drive a car, and if anyone actually thinks that it would be safer to do without Cops or traffic laws, then it is time for a reality check for them.


Notso: What we have here are a group of folks that don't like the current reality and don't have a real solution to how to fix it. One thing I think is extremely funny is the way they think that the total collapse down into anarchy will somehow result in the Utopia they want to live in and that somehow they'll be around after all of the killing and brutality are over.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

EVERY society throughout history has had Cops. They may call them something else, and they may not have uniforms, but there was always someone there to punish those who broke the rules or the laws. This include Native American tribes and even the Mountain Man Rendezvous had people designated to make sure that the rules of the camp were obeyed, few as they were. Get bad cops off of the street? Great. Get rid of some of the laws that politicians have passed? I'm all for it. Get rid of Cops? Crazy and unrealistic.


----------



## ThirtydaZe (Nov 23, 2013)

Denton said:


> * or do you see a bunch of self-absorbed, undisciplined people who see nothing but themselves as being important?
> *
> 
> So, what is your fix for the problem? *Or, do you think this society has been too tainted, too dumbed down, too far far gone to be retaught how to be good citizens?*


pretty much sums it up i'd say.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> Cop shoots "sovereign citizen" at an animal shelter in Dothan, yesterday.
> 
> Man shot at Dothan Animal Shelter identified - Dothan Eagle: Crime Court


To all the people in Lower Alabama, PLEASE BE CAREFUL! When the riots begin and locals begin to burn buildings over this shooting of an unarmed man, it will probably get pretty nasty real quick. I'm sure the rioting will spill over to other cities like Atlanta, Detroit, LA, Newark, Chicago and NYC.


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Gangs are not the bugaboo for all of us you might think. I doubt the gangs would last long in a society with a right to self defense.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> Gangs are not the bugaboo for all of us you might think. I doubt the gangs would last long in a society with a right to self defense.


? Please explain this a bit more? It makes no sense.


----------



## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Being a person who has a bad history, of being a criminal, THE ONLY THING I WAS SCARED OF WAS POLICE, And others in the game. 
I did some seriously bad stuff, with serious life and death outcomes. 
I promise you, without the police keeping the scumbags "undercover", this will be a different place. 
I hope y'all understand, normal citizens can not begin to even think like a criminal. 
That's all I wanna say, except, for Diver, I'm sorry you got a bum deal, with bum police and bum politicians, becoyse my sheriff is awesome. I have spoke with him a few times, and shook his hand, he is a marine, a sheriff, a family man, and a great guy.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Slippy said:


> To all the people in Lower Alabama, PLEASE BE CAREFUL! When the riots begin and locals begin to burn buildings over this shooting of an unarmed man, it will probably get pretty nasty real quick. I'm sure the rioting will spill over to other cities like Atlanta, Detroit, LA, Newark, Chicago and NYC.


FI
There will be NO riots over this man's shooting. First, even though it wasn't mentioned in the article, the guy was White, and there hasn't been any recent riots over White guys getting shot. Secondly, he was a "sovereign citizen". Read up on them. They are a group of nutjobs and there won't be any White people rioting over some nutjob getting shot and who got in an altercation with the animal control people and then the Police.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Diver said:


> Gangs are not the bugaboo for all of us you might think. I doubt the gangs would last long in a society with a right to self defense.


Say what?


----------



## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Slippy said:


> ? Please explain this a bit more? It makes no sense.


There is no right to self defense in the parts of the country like NJ, especially armed self defense. Absent police to enforce NJ gun laws, whether they are repealed or not, the violent criminals would no longer be protected from an armed citizenry.

As far as I know, one of our most serious violent crime problems here in NJ is carjacking. How much of that is run by organized gangs vs. smaller groups or individuals is hard to say, but carjacking is a particularly serious issue. Remove the police from the equation and NJ's 1.4 million gun owners would be packing to the corner grocery. Carjacking would turn into a quick trip to the morgue if a reasonable number of people were armed.

Effectively the question boils down to whether you think the police are protecting law abiding citizens from criminals, or are protecting criminals from law abiding citizens. In NJ criminals are clearly being protected from the citizens. Cases like Shaneen Allen's are all you need to know to realize that is the case.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Notsoyoung said:


> FI
> There will be NO riots over this man's shooting. First, even though it wasn't mentioned in the article, the guy was White, and there hasn't been any recent riots over White guys getting shot. Secondly, he was a "sovereign citizen". Read up on them. They are a group of nutjobs and there won't be any White people rioting over some nutjob getting shot and who got in an altercation with the animal control people and then the Police.


(Slippy quietly whispers to his friend Notsoyoung..."I was being sarcastic") layful:


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Slippy said:


> (Slippy quietly whispers to his friend Notsoyoung..."I was being sarcastic") layful:


I should have known. Sorry.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> FI
> There will be NO riots over this man's shooting. First, even though it wasn't mentioned in the article, the guy was White, and there hasn't been any recent riots over White guys getting shot. Secondly, he was a "sovereign citizen". Read up on them. They are a group of nutjobs and there won't be any White people rioting over some nutjob getting shot and who got in an altercation with the animal control people and then the Police.


Excuse me? Do I call you names? I don't think so.

Read up and learn what you are told to believe. Yeah, that makes sense.

By the way, I think I explained the sovereign movement in an earlier post, and it is not from a position of simply reading up on them.


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

denton said:


> excuse me? Do i call you names? I don't think so.
> 
> Read up and learn what you are told to believe. Yeah, that makes sense.
> 
> By the way, i think i explained the sovereign movement in an earlier post, and it is not from a position of simply reading up on them.


they are nutjobs.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> To all the people in Lower Alabama, PLEASE BE CAREFUL! When the riots begin and locals begin to burn buildings over this shooting of an unarmed man, it will probably get pretty nasty real quick. I'm sure the rioting will spill over to other cities like Atlanta, Detroit, LA, Newark, Chicago and NYC.


I can tell you where there'll be no rioting, and that is in Dothan. Not right now, anyway. The traffic is absolutely stupid, and these "polite Southerners" will run you over and not lose a minute's sleep over it. Oh, they may bless your heart, but that's about it! :armata_PDT_12:


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> they are nutjobs.


Nope. You are without knowledge.


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

And you look funny. And your mama dresses you funny.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> And you look funny. And your mama dresses you funny.


C'mon girls, get serious, I've got a thread started about building my outhouse damnit. Enough of cops and riots and burning buildings. I need to build a damn outhouse!

(Bless y'all's heart...)layful:


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> C'mon girls, get serious, I've got a thread started about building my outhouse damnit. Enough of cops and riots and burning buildings. I need to build a damn outhouse!
> 
> (Bless y'all's heart...)layful:


Fine - whatever. I was looking forward to playing the dozens but if we got to get serious and all that.....

Let's go talk about a crapper...


----------



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

Denton said:


> And you look funny. And your mama dresses you funny.


Hah! Shows what you know. My wife dresses me funny!


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Notsoyoung said:


> Hah! Shows what you know. My wife dresses me funny!


Yours too, huh. I'm sorry.

Mine think I look cute, but my friends all laugh at me.


----------



## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

That's funny, your wife dresses me too!


----------



## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Come party with me...you cop haters!!!


----------



## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Denton said:


> Nope. You are without knowledge.


Denton old buddy: The one I stopped for reckless driving was from just north of you and she was definitely certifiable. No I won't extrapolate just based on one. but her??????


----------



## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Is this accurate? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

YouTube has some wild videos on the subject.


----------

