# 1911 10mm vs 45acp... Which do I want?



## Ibndoo

Howdy,
I have been doing research up the yin yang. Brands, receivers, ballistics, hunting vs self defense, you name it! Well gosh darn it (excuse my German), my head hurts and I am now taking it to the poll! I originally wanted to build a bad *** 1911 in 10mm for a trail gun/self defense gun. Because after reading all these people talk about the amazingness of a 10mm in full power loads it made 45acp look like a 22! But now after reading about reloading 10mm ( which I intend to do as I do with all my other calibers), I have seen its hard to reproduce safely to the max 180gr at 1300fps? And that 45acp gets pretty close to the new low standards of 10mm. So what the hell do I do? Is what I am reading accurate? Are there people out there with 1911 10mm shooting and reloading max balistic 10mm? Or am I wasting my time, and should I just build a good old 45?

Please keep this to a fair and intelligent conversation as I know there is some biased folks, I am guilty myself on some subjects, but I always look at both angles.
Round one, fight!


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## dsdmmat

Well I would stay with .45 ACP. 
Reason 1
The 10mm is a great round but it is very hard on pistol frames. The 10mm is a high pressure round so you will also want a ramped barrel. If this is your first auto loader I would recommend the 45. The recoil is managable and not abusive to the hand. 

Reason 2
The .45 ACP I find on the shelves almost everywhere I go, the 10mm I have to go to a specialty store (gun shop) to find and sometimes not even there. 

Background
I have have had 1911s in .40, 9x23, 38 Super and 45ACP. Currently, I only own them in 40 and 45 (I have a revolver in 10mm).


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## Camel923

Dsdmmat is correct. 1911 frames have a short lifespan with 10 mm.
45 is a much better choice for a 1911. If you really like 10 mm go glock.


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## Alpha-17

10mm fan boys will always tell you it's the best, or it's about to take off and become common/affordable/practical. Sadly, I don't see that as the case with 10mm any more than I see it happening with 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel. Best bet in this situation, go .45. Plinking/practice ammo will be cheaper and easier to come by, and Federal HSTs in .45 ACP are nothing to scoff at.


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## Hemi45

.45ACP ... because John Browning said so!

All kidding aside, I think a 10mm 1911 is a very cool "also" gun but not a practical primary gun.


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## CourtSwagger

The fact of the matter is that 10mm will absolutely outperform 45ACP. That can't be debated. However, in my mind, the 10mm is not practical in most applications. It's like hunting deer with a 50 cal. Just no point. So the question is, how do you see this gun being applied? Is it to defend against Grizzly bears? If so, go 10mm all day. Just know that you won't find many other practical uses for it. If you intend to use it as a home defense or carry weapon, hands down the 45 is the way to go. 

As far as reloading 10mm, I wouldn't be too worried about it. You can reload enough, even with lower pressures, to keep you proficient. If I was going to carry it for defense against Grizzlies, I would rely on the biggest, baddest store bought rounds I could find.


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## SOCOM42

To make this simple.
First, I am a gunsmith with 50 years+ of experience.
I mention that so you will not think I am talking out of my a$$ or with no on hand experience.

Forget the 10mm! Many problems on 1911 frames, lockup and link elongation.
Had one, bottom of barrel blew out, took the legs off, split the frame down the middle.
Gun was junk, used factory ammo in it. 
10mm ammo is and will always be hard to find.
45 acp is everywhere ammo is sold, if not you can be sure no 10 either.
1911 in 45acp or 38 super are pleasant to shoot and do not beat up the gun and you like the 10mm.
The 10mm is a bear to shoot, your range time will be short due to wrist and elbow pain, plus cost.
There are loads that come up to the 10mm parameters you can buy or load.
If you plan on using the pistol for self defense and as a SHTF weapon, then 45ACP is the way to go..


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## Kauboy

Hemi45 said:


> .45ACP ... because John Browning said so!


Unlike Hemi, I'm NOT kidding about this reason.
JB was a genius, and designed that gun to shoot that round. Any deviation from it is done at the user's own risk.
Any 1911 that doesn't meet the standards of JB's original model are not 1911s in my book. Don't mess with a good thing.

Not all .45s need to be 1911s, but all 1911s need to be .45s.


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## TacticalCanuck

45 for availability and longevity.


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## sideKahr

For self defense I'd choose the .45 ACP; easy to get back on target for multiple shots. For hunting when you need a careful, aimed, single shot; go with the more powerful cartridge. JMHO.


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## Salt-N-Pepper

If God had wanted the 1911 to be in 10mm he would have made it that way in the first place.

Did he? 

No. He did not.

Dilemma solved.


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## paraquack

I'll stay with my .45 ACP. Unfortunately my wife can't handle it so she uses a 9mm. 
I would not trade the .45 for 2-9mms. I have thought about getting a second 9mm 
for myself, only because the wife has more ammo than I do.


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## Medic33

like most everyone else stay with the .45 it can handle anything that the 10 mm can and be so much more happier about it.
plus it is a lot more available to find so much so that in a real SHTL .45acp ammo could almost be used as currency.


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## topgun

I'd go with the 45 for the same reasons as already mentioned.

If I were to choose one of those two calibers for say, deer hunting, I'd favor the 10 simply because it would be effective out to about 75 yards with a well placed shot.


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## tango

The 10mm is a very good round and not as hard to shoot as some say.
There are good 10mm, 1911 pistols, but, the 1911 was designed around the 45 acp.
45 acp ammo is much more affordable and available.
What do you want the pistol for? Defense? hunting?


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## 6811

if you already have 1911 in .45, then go ahead and get yourself a 10mm. why restrict yourself with just one when you can go for both calibers.


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## 8301

A nice compromise may be that instead of a 10mm for that 1911 frame why not a .40 S&W. A bit more pep than the time honored .45 ACP but not quite as nasty as the 10mm.


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## Chipper

Geez guys my wife shoots my 10mm 200 grain XTP reloads just fine. It's not a 500 S&W, for Christ's sake. Yes I'm loading them close to max.

Reason I run the 10 is for the same reason the FBI started and did all the testing. In a SHTF scenario will I need to shoot through barriers, cars, windshields, body armor, fat people etc?? Why would I purposely go with a subsonic round like the 45?? Why would I even want a 7 shot pistol? I'd be far better off with a revolver in 357 mag? 

The great 1911 wasn't designed to deal with the pressures of the 10mm. Is it surprising they have problems?? Save your self some money and headaches just get a Glock in 10mm. You won't need a couple extra mags.


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## Medic33

you need to shoot through barriers? yeah ok. 
10mm
cars=nope
windshields=nope
body armor=double nope
fat people =sure but why? doubt you can get two for the price of one.
why go with a subsonic round like the .45?= cause it works reliably maybe?

get a glock that works = great idea I like this.
but they guy wants a 1911 not a glock so =nope
sorry chipper I have no doubts that you like the 10 and if it works for you(or your wife) that is wonderful.
I agree the 357 is better and happens to be my favorite but it isn't for everyone -each person has their idea of what they think is the best and will argue the point just to argue.
peace bro


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## Alpha-17

Kauboy said:


> Not all .45s need to be 1911s, but all 1911s need to be .45s.


That's sig worthy right there.


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## PaulS

The 10mm is ballistically superior to the 45 ACP I don't think you will get any argument from anyone on that.
The 45 and 1911 were designed to work together to stop a man in full battle gear. It is the best round ever developed for that use. (proof? all other auto-loading cartridges are compared to the 45 ACP when talking about stopping power)
The 10 mm is a 40 caliber 357 Magnum. They are ballistic twins and that means you get complete penetration but it keeps on going. I carry a 357 daily and I know that I have to be aware of what the bullet will penetrate after it does the job I intend. The 45 ACP will likely get full penetration too but most of its energy will be expended and it will be of little danger to whatever is behind your target.
The 45 will allow quicker follow up shot due to the lower recoil and that is an important consideration for a carry gun. I wouldn't use the 45 for hunting but at close range you could put down a black bear with it. You might be able to cleanly kill a deer at 25 yards but I wouldn't do it. 
If you want both a hunting and carry gun then get one for each use. That way you have one that will be good at each job.


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## Kauboy

Medic33 said:


> you need to shoot through barriers? yeah ok.
> 10mm
> cars=nope
> windshields=nope


The 9mm para can penetrate cars and windshields. Why would you claim that the 10mm can't?
The Box of Truth guys did a test with various calibers against a junk car, and found that just about the entire thing is only concealment, not cover.
Nearly all rounds fired went through both doors, driver and passenger, when fired at the vehicle broadside. The windshield didn't stand a chance.
You have to be behind the engine block to actually expect cover.


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## Medic33

well you know FMJ and all. JHP=nope
you should also know that on a video you can make the sun crap raspberries.
not arguing with anyone believe what ever you want ok .


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## Kauboy

JHP will penetrate just as well, but slow down a bit. Car doors and windshields are thin.


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## Old Man

45 hands down


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## hardcore

like most said here...the 1911 in .45 is tough to beat. the availability of ammo and parts being the deciding factor to me. 
if a .45 cant kill it, go to a rifle caliber


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## tango

The 10mm was adopted by the FBI because it passed all the protocol's, including windshield penetration.
It was later replaced by the 40 because some female and male agents could not handle the recoil.


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## topgun

tango said:


> The 10mm was adopted by the FBI because it passed all the protocol's, including windshield penetration.
> It was later replaced by the 40 because some female and male agents could not handle the recoil.


Some female and male agents couldn't handle the 40's either. They solved that problem in two ways, they went to the 9mm, and at the same time, they lowered the standards. Now they are re-thinking these moves again. Time will tell what they end up with.


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## Medic33

I said I am not arguing about it, so believe what you want.
I know why the 10 was dropped and why the 40 was made.
and I ain't teling


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## Seneca

If somebody were to offer me a 10mm at a ridiculously low price I'd buy it. On the other hand if I were simply look to buy a 1911 pattern/style pistol, I would buy it in .45ACP. 

As a prepper I find that commonality and availability of ammunition has often been a deciding factor in the selection of certain firearms. That's the reason for my choice of the .45ACP over the 10mm. 

That said I do enjoy shooting and a 10mm struck me as something fun to have and occasionally take shooting, then I'd buy one.


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## Slippy

I don't own a 1911, but when I get one, it'll be in .45 acp. Like George Strait says, You can Write this down!


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## bigwheel

How do you speel .40? I have had several folks I know and some others who have been shot point blank in the sternum at close range with a .45 peece o sheet and they stayed in the horspital overnight. That round is totally over rated and inadequate.


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## Quip

I went all 45's. When ammo was hard to find because of (fill in blank), the shelves were picked clean of 9mm and .40. 45's were was still on the shelves. Better a couple of bucks extra a box than no box at all.
Its much easier to collect/carry 1 caliber. No confusion in a time of need. 

I don't have a single 1911 but, the 45 is easily my favorite. I'm a big believer the bigger the hole the sooner it bleeds out and a 45 will have a better chance of knocking the target down for an easier double tap if needed.


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## Gunner's Mate

I would build the 45 auto only because there is not a 46 auto yet


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## James m

James says you need both. Listen to old James! He never steered ya wrong.


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## Medic33

don't know what speel means but I spell it forty. LOL


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## Kauboy

Medic33 said:


> I said I am not arguing about it, so believe what you want.
> I know why the 10 was dropped and why the 40 was made.
> and I ain't teling


I question the intentions of anyone who publicly claims to have knowledge on a topic, and refuses to share.
Politicians are pretty good at doing this, and that's bad company to be in.
As for my beliefs, I'll believe the proven truth.


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## bigwheel

Our old firearms guy said when the 10 mm first came the ammo was loaded too hot and tore up the guns. So they came up with a 10 mm light and called it a .40. Now whether thats right or not I aint sure. Somebody on here said the full blown 10 mms were pretty punishing on the shooter.


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## SDF880

I have always heard or read " Use your pistol to get to your rifle" . If that the case isn't 10MM already kind of a step in that direction?
I have 10MM and I keep the 10MM in my "break glass in case of war" collection. I carry 45 most days. Also heard some say 
"9MM may or may not expand but a 45 will never shrink!" I liked that one!


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## Medic33

bigwheel said:


> Our old firearms guy said when the 10 mm first came the ammo was loaded too hot and tore up the guns. So they came up with a 10 mm light and called it a .40. Now whether thats right or not I aint sure. Somebody on here said the full blown 10 mms were pretty punishing on the shooter.


B-I-N-G-O and bingo was it's name oh.


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## Charles Martel

I like my 10mm. As a reloader, you'll find the 10mm to be an incredibly versatile cartridge. I load it hot and achieve ballistics approaching that of the .41 magnum, or I can load it light and make it more like a .40 S&W. 

My glock 20 has been my woods gun for almost a decade. I'm confident I could take down anything I am likely to encounter in the lower 48 with my +P's. It's also the gun I keep in my vehicle at all times. It's a flat shooter that penetrates very well for a semi-auto pistol cartridge. 

If you choose to go with a 10mm, I would recommend NOT going the 1911 route. I'd go with a Glock. I understand 1911's don't always hold up well to the additional strain of the 10mm cartridge.

If you're in love with the 1911, go with a .45. It's a proven platform. You can't go wrong with it.


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## Prepadoodle

I would go with the .45 myself. As has been pointed out, you are much more likely to be able to find .45 acp rounds or components. 

Socom made some valid points.

I'll bring up 2 often overlooked considerations...

The .45 is less expensive and less punishing to shoot. This can translate into more range time and ultimately a higher skill level.

Another overlooked consideration is your ability to quickly diagnose and correct common stoppages. We would all love our guns to be 100% reliable, but that's never going to happen. You will sometimes get bad ammo, parts wear or break, magazines get abused and cause all kinds of problems, etc, etc. If one encounters these problems at the range, it's no big deal. In fact, it's some of the best training you can get. Learn how to identify the problem and take the appropriate corrective action when your life isn't on the line.

With a modern, reliable weapon, it takes tens of thousands of rounds before you see enough stoppages to be really good at correcting them. You could wear out guns getting to this point. This is the main reason that I still carry a .45 1911. I admit that, if I had to do it over, I would be carrying a high capacity .40 instead, but there's something to be said for decades of experience with a particular type, and I'm not willing to throw that away. I carry a 1911 because I KNOW the 1911, and know it well enough to trust my life to the design.


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## bigwheel

Think it all has to do with whether a person has been in in the military or not. Some of us had to hang out and help Sick Willy drink half decaffe lattes in Canada..eh? I aint never even shot a real 1911 but they dont have good stopping power and everybody I know that has owned one shot a hole in unsuspected locations. The designed is apparently real out dated. Think I told the story of my old pard who shot one into the wall and nearly killed the jailer asleep on the far side of the wall. Fortunately the slow pokey round hit a an aluminum stud on the sideways path. Those guns are not safe.


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## bigwheel

A .357 magnesium would have done him in.


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## Alpha-17

bigwheel said:


> Think it all has to do with whether a person has been in in the military or not. Some of us had to hang out and help Sick Willy drink half decaffe lattes in Canada..eh? I aint never even shot a real 1911 but they dont have good stopping power and everybody I know that has owned one shot a hole in unsuspected locations. The designed is apparently real out dated. Think I told the story of my old pard who shot one into the wall and nearly killed the jailer asleep on the far side of the wall. Fortunately the slow pokey round hit a an aluminum stud on the sideways path. Those guns are not safe.


What? Are you saying that a weapon with 2-3 safety systems, plus the trigger, is unsafe? Based on stories you've heard having never owned one? Just trying to make sure I understand that correctly.


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## Medic33

I think he was being sarcastic dude.


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## James m

Idk I think that guy has Alzheimer's sometimes.


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## SOCOM42

The operator is what can be unsafe.
Mechanically, the pistol is absolutely safe!
The series 80's and above Colt's and many clones have added a firing pin block.
With the block the ONLY WAY it will fire is with the trigger pulled all the way back.
I was good enough for countless banana wars, two World wars, Korea and an unknown amount of other conflicts for a hundred years.
It is working its way back into the services where they need a man stopper.
The reason it was phased out was due to politics and old age WEAR of the existing pieces. 
When they were withdrawn from service, they were all veteran's of WW2 manufacture or earlier!!
In one case I personally know of, the pistol was a straight 1911 from WW1!!!!
They could have placed contracts for new ones, but politics intervened to scratch Italian backs.


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## Kauboy

bigwheel said:


> ...everybody I know that has owned one shot a hole in unsuspected locations.


For your own safety, don't be around those people if they ever have any gun.
They pulled the trigger on a loaded weapon and didn't follow proper safety precautions.
Your life is at risk around such people.


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## bigwheel

Those guns have been shot off from every position on the dial ranging from full cocked..half cocked..uncocked..grip safety squeezed or unsqueezed. The only safe way to carry one is with the gun in the glove box and the ammo in the trunk. I have owned one..just never shot one..lol. I was the proud owner of a Colt commander for a couple of hours. Long enough to pay the guy who wanted to peddle it for two hundred and deliver it to the buyer for 350. Have owned and shot prob 50 of its variant bastid step chllin clones over the years. I never liked any of them either. Guess I shoulda been in the military where I would learn to like those things. I thought about joining one time but heard they didnt have any openings.


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## Medic33

I would still go with the 45 if I had to choose be it 1911 or glock or what ever.
well bigwheel this is one of those cases were 1000's of people some pro's some wish they knew which way to put the bullets in have and do own and carry the 1911 every day for duty, recreation, or just to be a cowboy for a few hours and all will agree the 1911 is safe
so if you got a problem with it then I would say the problem is you-now I am not a avid 1911 fan I think it is way over rated, I have friends that are and they love it. the point I'm trying to make is if everyone who has tried it says chicken is good then most likely it is.


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## Kauboy

The guns are safe. They don't fire on their own. Those with a firing pin block are completely drop safe.
If your booger hook trips the bang switch, you damn sure better know where the boom end is pointing.
Blaming the gun for the shooters poor safety is erroneous.


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## SOCOM42

bigwheel said:


> Those guns have been shot off from every position on the dial ranging from full cocked..half cocked..uncocked..grip safety squeezed or unsqueezed. The only safe way to carry one is with the gun in the glove box and the ammo in the trunk. I have owned one..just never shot one..lol. I was the proud owner of a Colt commander for a couple of hours. Long enough to pay the guy who wanted to peddle it for two hundred and deliver it to the buyer for 350. Have owned and shot prob 50 of its variant bastid step chllin clones over the years. I never liked any of them either. Guess I shoulda been in the military where I would learn to like those things. I thought about joining one time but heard they didnt have any openings.


Bigwheel,

Unless some yahoo screwed with the mechanics of those pistols you speak of, I say BS. 
There is ABSOULTLY NO WAY for a 1911 to fire with the hammer down, none.
Half cock position is impossible also, again with no mechanical alterations.
I have seen the half cock notch ground off of the hammer causing an accidental discharge.
The owner did it so he would not loose the sear edge on his match gun. 
I have seen half cock notches fail due to breakage, but they did retard the hammer, preventing a discharge.
I have shot, repaired, accurized, customized and refinished in the near thousand of those pistols since 1960.
Any 1911 in good working condition is safe and will not generate any failures you describe.

With the firing pin block models, the only way the pistol will ever fire is with a complete follow thru by the operator.


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## Alpha-17

^---- This.

the 1911 has far too many safeties built in to be called "unsafe", especially in the era of the Glock and it's clones that don't bother to even have one real safety.


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## bigwheel

There ya go. Mr. Sig has one safety..if you dont want it to go bang..dont pull the trigger. The 1911 and its clones has way to many flippers and flappers for serious guvment work. Similar to a Ruger sorta. When you manage to figure out how to fire it off it just pokes holes in folks.


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## Alpha-17

bigwheel said:


> There ya go. Mr. Sig has one safety..if you dont want it to go bang..dont pull the trigger. The 1911 and its clones has way to many flippers and flappers for serious guvment work. Similar to a Ruger sorta. When you manage to figure out how to fire it off it just pokes holes in folks.


So it's unsafe because it has safeties. Uh huh. Da fuq are you smoking?


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## Kauboy

Alpha-17 said:


> ^---- This.
> 
> the 1911 has far too many safeties built in to be called "unsafe", especially in the era of the Glock and it's clones that don't bother to even have one real safety.


Forgive me, but the *ONLY* real safety is the operator.
Everything else is to compensate for potential operator mistake.


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## Alpha-17

Kauboy said:


> Forgive me, but the *ONLY* real safety is the operator.
> Everything else is to compensate for potential operator mistake.


The operator is the most flawed "component" of a weapon. Safeties add redundancy to help counter the operator's dumb moments. They should never be relied on, but they certainly have their place.


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## Kauboy

They do have their place. In the off position.


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## Alpha-17

Kauboy said:


> They do have their place. In the off position.


Would you carry a rifle loaded, with the safety off? Or an open-bolt belt feed? Then why on earth would you carry a pistol, designed to have safeties used, with those features "off"?

If the pistol in question has a difficult to deactive safety, like the Beretta's slide safety, or the small safety on an FNS, I can understand carrying it in Double action mode, but on a single action 1911? Nope. Safety is entirely too easy to use to leave it off/go out of your way to nullify them.


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## topgun

I really don't want to argue one caliber over another. All I know for sure, is that when I was hit by a 7.62x 57mm (I think) pointed round, I didn't even know I was hit until a few hours later when I took off my boot and then it was hard to put back on because my foot had swelled. Then it dawned on me why my foot felt a warm wetness.

Anyway, My Uncle Ed who served in WWII told me that when he stormed the beaches in Normandy, he shot a kraut with his 45 and hit him in the ear lobe. He said that it spun him around and he hit the ground. He said that was caused by the percussion of the 45. It may have been a war story, but it's all I have to go by.


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## bigwheel

Great story. My Uncle had similar tales about shooting japs in the S. Pacific. Said one charging and absorbed a full mag of .30 cal carbine only to keep coming. Finally managed to tump him over with the .45 at the last second. Now an old pal who used to do ambushes on the Ho Chi Minh trail say....357 and 44 mag are much better **** stooppers than the .45. If fact the guy and his buddy got some wheel guns mailed over from their parents. He say those will gut em and make them stay put.


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## Kauboy

Alpha-17 said:


> Would you carry a rifle loaded, with the safety off? Or an open-bolt belt feed? Then why on earth would you carry a pistol, designed to have safeties used, with those features "off"?
> 
> If the pistol in question has a difficult to deactive safety, like the Beretta's slide safety, or the small safety on an FNS, I can understand carrying it in Double action mode, but on a single action 1911? Nope. Safety is entirely too easy to use to leave it off/go out of your way to nullify them.


I don't carry any firearm, intended to protect my life, with any safety engaged. The only switch I ever have to worry about is the trigger.


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## topgun

bigwheel said:


> Great story. My Uncle had similar tales about shooting japs in the S. Pacific. Said one charging and absorbed a full mag of .30 cal carbine only to keep coming. Finally managed to tump him over with the .45 at the last second. Now an old pal who used to do ambushes on the Ho Chi Minh trail say....357 and 44 mag are much better **** stooppers than the .45. If fact the guy and his buddy got some wheel guns mailed over from their parents. He say those will gut em and make them stay put.


357 and 44 mag? No argument here. In fact, give me a 357 mag., a 40 S&W, a 45 ACP or a 44 mag. and I'll be one happy camper!


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## bigwheel

He said that .45 was good for poking holes in the bad guys but was not very effective at making them cease and desist rapidly. Sure they were shooting the crappy old military hard ball stuff. Guess he coulda just got Mama to mail him some decent ammo..but then the gun would prob need a throat job to make it digest hollow points. hmmm


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## Kauboy

bigwheel said:


> Sure they were shooting the crappy old military hard ball stuff. Guess he coulda just got Mama to mail him some decent ammo..but then the gun would prob need a throat job to make it digest hollow points. hmmm


Was that due to the model he was issued, or is that a limitation for all 1911s? I'm not as familiar with them as I'd like to be, so I'm asking out of curiosity. Does the 1911 design heavily favor FMJ, or can they handle JHP reliably? A .45 is a big hole, but a .45 hollow point would be an absolute beast.


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## bigwheel

Seem to recall the military is not supposed to use any hollow point dum-dums..as per the Geneva Convention..so doubt there was much exotic ammo in the suppy chain to feed it. Now this guy was working behind the lines type deal. Thinking he said they used AKs for a rifle and did other exotic things to make it not easy to identify them as good guys if things went South. Just about everybody I know who loves 1911s has trouble getting it to feed hollowpoints in its unaltered state. Now those old S&W 4506 could cycle those blunt hollow points all day long. Real occasionally a limp wristed lady or girly man could get one to slove pipe. Never happened to me of course..lol


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## Kauboy

bigwheel said:


> Seem to recall the military is not supposed to use any hollow point dum-dums..as per the Geneva Convention..so doubt there was much exotic ammo in the suppy chain to feed it. Now this guy was working behind the lines type deal. Thinking he said they used AKs for a rifle and did other exotic things to make it not easy to identify them as good guys if things went South. Just about everybody I know who loves 1911s has trouble getting it to feed hollowpoints in its unaltered state. Now those old S&W 4506 could cycle those blunt hollow points all day long. Real occasionally a limp wristed lady or girly man could get one to slove pipe. Never happened to me of course..lol


I didn't even think of the HP ban on military ammo. Thanks for that reminder.


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## bigwheel

You betcha Sir! Wished I could lure that old codger over here to tell us some stories. He has some good ones. He was doing ambushes on the Ho Chi minh trail in Laos back in early 60's. Hes is full of good info..lol.


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## SOCOM42

Kauboy said:


> I didn't even think of the HP ban on military ammo. Thanks for that reminder.


The ban only applies to assignors to the Geneva convention.
That is why we used shotguns in the Pacific during WW2.
Again in Vietnam, the Geneva convention does not recognize irregular troops like the VC, so, shotguns were used against them
Same applied to the NVA, even though they were uniformed troops, the north was not an assignor to the convention, we got to blow their GD faces off with 00 buck!
Anything was legal in Vietnam.


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## timwoodward79

I'm gonna chime in on this. I know it's an old post. But oh well. I was at a gun shop today. I've been considering another 1911 in 10mm. Now I have 4 of them all chambered in .45...never even fired a 10 mm. 
That being said...the shop employee told me that the ballistics are somewhat close. However...the higher pressure COULD wear the pistol prematurely. That and the added expense and knowing that the ammo can be scarce...I've decided to stick with the .45.
I almost bought a cheap one in 10mm...but then thought that if this ammo causes excessive wear...it would surely have an affect on a cheaper 1911. 
Now those who have fired the 
.45 will probably tell you there is plenty of stopping power. And I agree. My personal defense ammo leaves the muzzle at 900 fps. That's around 600 mph. And that's considered "slow". 
I'm all for trying out new calibers. Just do as much research as you can before you buy. Yes...I am biased to the .45 ACP. But...I dont knock any caliber. Hell...the way I see it...it's all about what YOU the shooter can handle and shoot effectively. Doesn't matter if it's from a .22 or if it's the S&W .500
It's all about efficiency. 

Carry on people. And remember..."gun control" is good accuracy. Not bans and restrictions.

Haha. Happy shooting folks. 


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## timwoodward79

PaulS said:


> The 10mm is ballistically superior to the 45 ACP I don't think you will get any argument from anyone on that.
> The 45 and 1911 were designed to work together to stop a man in full battle gear. It is the best round ever developed for that use. (proof? all other auto-loading cartridges are compared to the 45 ACP when talking about stopping power)
> The 10 mm is a 40 caliber 357 Magnum. They are ballistic twins and that means you get complete penetration but it keeps on going. I carry a 357 daily and I know that I have to be aware of what the bullet will penetrate after it does the job I intend. The 45 ACP will likely get full penetration too but most of its energy will be expended and it will be of little danger to whatever is behind your target.
> The 45 will allow quicker follow up shot due to the lower recoil and that is an important consideration for a carry gun. I wouldn't use the 45 for hunting but at close range you could put down a black bear with it. You might be able to cleanly kill a deer at 25 yards but I wouldn't do it.
> If you want both a hunting and carry gun then get one for each use. That way you have one that will be good at each job.


Ballistically superior how? And don't use gel as your go to answer. They all look good in gel. 
I'm not looking for an argument here. But by all means, I'm interested in references to your point. 
And keep in mind...one lucky devastating shot doesn't work. 
The .45 has been tested time and time again for over 100 years. The .40 and 10mm...not so much. I can't think of a single branch of the military or any police departments that carry the 10 mm.

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## SDF880

10MM rocks! I have an RIA 1911 10MM that is very accurate and the frame weight of the RIA tames the beast! 
Problem right now is if you use 10MM in a defensive shooting the DA and attorney for the bad guy will go after you
for excessive force! Yup you are using a round the FBI found too powerful to use so you must be a killer! 

Absolutely nothing wrong with 45 or 40 in my book I have both and carry both!


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## SOCOM42

I carry both 45 and 40 and quite comfortable with them.

There is a hundred year positive history behind the 45.

I do gun smithing for a living, seen many 10mm 1911's in here for failure, cracked frames etc.

Admitted, earlier models, no one buys them around here and no ammo on the LGS's shelves.

A few locals reload for them, LGS is the largest store in the central part of the state.

If I think I need a bigger round, I will go to 44 or 41 magnum.

There are a lot of fans of the 10 here, whatever makes one happy is all that counts.

I do have a 44 Automag which is far more powerful than the 10,

but needs training wheels and slow to recover for a followup round.


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## Kauboy

timwoodward79 said:


> Ballistically superior how? And don't use gel as your go to answer. They all look good in gel.
> I'm not looking for an argument here. But by all means, I'm interested in references to your point.
> And keep in mind...one lucky devastating shot doesn't work.
> The .45 has been tested time and time again for over 100 years. The .40 and 10mm...not so much. I can't think of a single branch of the military or any police departments that carry the 10 mm.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


You might not want to hold your breath on Paul replying to your question.
Sadly, he bid us farewell a year or so ago, and hasn't seen fit to return since.
Personally, I miss him. His insights and wealth of knowledge were an asset to this community.

In the remotest of off chances that the new notification system can reach him... @PaulS "Come back to us!!!"


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## Salt-N-Pepper

The 1911 is a great self-defense gun, and the .45ACP is a great self-defense round.

I would do that.

If I wanted a handgun for hunting, I would not choose a 1911 nor would I choose .45ACP... I'd rather get an optics-ready bigger caliber gun with a long barrel designed for getting those big slugs up to optimal speed.


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## timwoodward79

Kauboy said:


> You might not want to hold your breath on Paul replying to your question.
> Sadly, he bid us farewell a year or so ago, and hasn't seen fit to return since.
> Personally, I miss him. His insights and wealth of knowledge were an asset to this community.
> 
> In the remotest of off chances that the new notification system can reach him... @PaulS "Come back to us!!!"


Well I hope he is well. 
I was genuinely interested in hearing his reply.

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## bigwheel

10 MM light aka .40 SW is pretty nice. I would not take a 1911 if it was free


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## Grinch2

Being an owner of a 45 and a 10mm I am still as some say a 10mm fan boy; here's what I tell people about the two calibers. 

The 45 is the older brother of the 10mm, they're in that generation of top dog auto handgun calibers. Only problem is the 45 is the older brother who's got a beer gut, the 10mm might not be nearly as battle proven as the 45 but it's a slimmer more robust round. Besides it's a more refined round not just belching out a bowling ball bullet. 

However for the average every-day shooter the 45 is a better choice. Why as people have said every Tom, Dick & Harry store out there that has any sort of ammunition has 45 ammo. Besides they make just about any round imaginable for it. 

My question is have you ever considered a Glock ? As a member of the Church of Gaston I mean to me it's ridiculous to even consider a 1911 in a 10mm anymore or even in 45 ( yes I just said that ). Because anymore why spend 1000+ on a pistol when you can comfortably spend 600 on a new Glock ? I know the 1911 owners will say stuff like " it shoots better " and their usual dialogue. But for 400+ you can buy a lot of ammo and magazines for your new Glock. 

I mean you can take the average knuckle head off the street who's never shot a gun and give them one of these custom shop super elite mega ultra 1911's that are hand made in some guy's garage and costs 4500$ and they won't hit anything. 

Point being is it's not the gun, it's the shooter, unless you're not a budget it's better to get a cheaper gun and get comfortable with it, the bark of the 10mm is a lot more than your 9mm don't get me wrong, but it's not that wrist snapping fear inducing monster everyone claims it is. You put a few magazines through it you'll realize that in a hurry. 

Besides if you're not a schmuck you can use your head and get a 50rnd box of PPU for less than $25. The 10mm doesn't have the popularity of the 45, it's not the next " ultimate round " ha the FBI had to make a short and wimpy version of it and everyone jumped on it like a dog in heat. If you're a seasoned shooter the 10mm is for you; you can take it hunting or backpacking ( I guess that's a thing ) plus you can use it to defend yourself against two legged threats. 

Step 1 for solving your problem, get a Glock 20 and 5-6 boxes of ammo. 
Step 2 shoot it
Problem solved.


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