# Why does it have to be us against them or them against us?



## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Aren't we all here for the same reason(s)? To learn new things, to expand our knowledge on things we know a little about, to share information and chat with people who have the same mindset?

We might not agree what we are preparing for, natural disasters, economic collapse, bible philosophies, etc. however, don't we all have the basic goals? Protect and provide for our families in the best way possible.

Every community is going to have the village idiot, the doomsayer, the village drunk and of course the loud mouth. We aren't children, why can't we disagree and discuss things without someone getting their panties in a bunch.

There are some people on this site that I have zero respect for and it wouldn't surprise me if they feel the same way about me. I don't care if someone doesn't like me and they can say so. I would rather they say it to my face than behind my back.

There are some people on here that I look for their posts first because they are straight shooters and seem to have the same core beliefs I do. There is one person on here that can always make me smile no matter what my mood is.

I am irritated and frustrated because it seems some people can ask questions and degrade people and others get in trouble if they do that. I hate double standards! Someone please help me understand what in the hell is going on. :armata_PDT_17:


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

That's just the way life is.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

Auntie, you can thank the federal government, and particularly the LIBERALS, for systematically creating this "us against them" mentality among U.S. citizens.

"Divide and conquer" is one of the oldest forms of control and capitulation there is.

This forum is VERY civil, compared to any other forum I have participated in. I believe that is due to the fact that we are all here because of a very strong common thread that we all share.......prepping.

When you list the DAMAGE that the Obama regime has done to this country over the past 6 1/2 years, is it any wonder that we are all in danger, and this country is being held together with duck tape and baling wire?


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## Sharkbait (Feb 9, 2014)

I agree and well said.Even though I haven't been posting much lately,i've still been lurking and must admit that your post are some of my favorites to read.Not just because you are genuinely kind,but you speak your mind in doing so.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Ingroup/outgroup divisions and persecution of the Outgroup is an inherent human tendency - but we can rise above. Here's to Rising Above.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

It goes back to out caveman brains and tribes. We all have a tribe and stick to it. It's the way we are wired. Let's hope we evolve.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Most people aren't interested in preparing and possibly feel a bit threatened when reminded that their "perfect world" may come crashing down if the SHTF. We as people who like a little "insurance" against disaster make them worry about something they would rather ignore. Plus we understand that we will require the ability to protect the life saving supplies we had the foresight to stock up on so we usually keep a gun or two and practice with these weapons, always threating in out liberal society.

I'd feel much better if I knew my friends and neighbors were prepared but to bring the topic up usually results in a halt in the conversation so while I am more that willing to discuss prepping with friends and neighbors they are the ones who often put up the wall. And since I simply can't supply food and heat for everyone I will take a slight "leave my preps alone" attitude if they are ever needed. They are adults who can choose to "buy a little insurance" but once it's too late then it will be to late for those who did not prepare. I only feel bad for their young children.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Auntie my dear,

One of my theories of life (and the title of my never to be published 3rd book) is; "We Never Really Leave The 7th Grade". But I digress...

Most of us probably attended School from Grades K-12, Some of us played sports or participated in group activities. Some went to college, to the military or directly to workforce. Many are members of churches and community organizations. Some are in Corporate jobs, others are self employed or contractors, some are unemployed and some are retired. 

We see this in darn near every group that we've ever been involved. The difference in me and Chipper is that it takes him 6 words and me...more...to say the same thing.

That's just the way life is.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

I have reserved my feelings, but you ask an honest question .....
Auntie, I feel that there is a fine unwritten line, and when some people cross that line, they get "clintoned"
Others cross a line, and get a scolding.
I don't know all the facts, but friends are friends. 
If speaking out and questioning authority, are not allowed, then so be it. 
I think some scabs are best left unpicked. 
Do I like the results? No. 
Do I stop visiting p.f. ? No, not as of yet. 
Do I post as much as I used to? No.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Auntie, I have always enjoyed your posts. They are honest and forthright. One can not ask for more out of people I am thinking. Groups will always be around in some form or other I suppose. It is human nature, in fact, it is nature. Unless, as suggested, we evolve but I am seeing regression rather then progression. Now, has anyone applied for the position of town drunk in this town of yours?


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I don't know, but it seems this place is getting slower.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Much like you, I do not care if people on here like me or not or agree with me or not. I am going to say what I think to be true regardless.

The STRAIGHT SHOOTERS are the ones that agree with you, the LOUD MOUTHS are the ones with an opposite opinion. 

At the end of the day..I pray with my family at dinner, enjoy a meal, talk about the day, play with the kids and tuck them in...

This is a fun distraction at times.. and I would hope that at least some of my post are helpful...and others thought provoking...

I also have learned a few things here... 

overall I like this place and most of the people.. there are no folks that I hate..there are a few that I strongly disagree with Pauls, hawgriders. Slewfoot and of course Slippy.. I am not sure why Slippy even comes around here.. he is a democratic operative and his only reason for being here is to boost his pike and marriage counseling business... 

but even the folks I disagree with I respect their right to voice an opinion and they are thought provoking (well not hawrider - he is on permanent ignore)


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

If your talking about politics then I completely understand. Since Gore/Bush its seemed like people can't have a civil discussion with opposite viewpoints. I think its mostly pride and immaturity that makes us this way, there's no way you can allow the other side to be better than your side.


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## PatriotFlamethrower (Jan 10, 2015)

Just when I thought we were all going to sit around the campfire, hold hands, and sing Kumbaya, Maine-Marine throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing. :stick:

And I was really looking forward to the S'mores. :armata_PDT_04:


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

If your values, freedoms, rights are not important then you don't have to choose between us or them. You can straddle the fence or throw chance to the wind and take what comes your way, just remember than if you straddle the fence and your footing slips it could end up being painful when that fencing bites your butt. IMO, that has been the problem for many years in this country, to many took the easy way and just went along and didn't choose, now we are paying the piper.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

If the people here were like most people you meet, who don't want to offend and who won't discuss religion or politics, etc then I wouldn't come here. I like healthy disagreements, as long as they remain fact based and POLITE.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

sideKahr said:


> If the people here were like most people you meet, who don't want to offend and who won't discuss religion or politics, etc then I wouldn't come here. I like healthy disagreements, as long as they remain fact based and POLITE.


That... I like a good discussion...


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Auntie said:


> Aren't we all here for the same reason(s)? To learn new things, to expand our knowledge on things we know a little about, to share information and chat with people who have the same mindset?
> 
> We might not agree what we are preparing for, natural disasters, economic collapse, bible philosophies, etc. however, don't we all have the basic goals? Protect and provide for our families in the best way possible.
> 
> ...


I can not believe you are calling me out like this, (village idiot, the doomsayer, the village drunk and of course the loud mouth)


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

alterego said:


> I can not believe you are calling me out like this, (village idiot, the doomsayer, the village drunk and of course the loud mouth)


I thought she was referring to me


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Sorry I have been gone all day, it was supposed to be a quick trip to town Things didn't go as planned it all started with the almost flat tire...it ended with us getting six free ducks. I need to grab a bite to eat and then will catch up with every ones comments.


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## redhawk (May 7, 2014)

Auntie, very well said and I hope that the forum members will consider what you said prior to spouting rhetoric...JM2C


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Deebo said:


> I have reserved my feelings, but you ask an honest question .....
> Auntie, I feel that there is a fine unwritten line, and when some people cross that line, they get "clintoned"
> Others cross a line, and get a scolding.
> I don't know all the facts, but friends are friends.
> ...


What would make it so that you would post more?



PatriotFlamethrower said:


> Just when I thought we were all going to sit around the campfire, hold hands, and sing Kumbaya, Maine-Marine throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing. :stick:
> 
> And I was really looking forward to the S'mores. :armata_PDT_04:


I can't make smores what if someone is diabetic or gluten intolerant or doesn't like marshmallows? I also don't know the words to Kumbaya. However, I do know the words to Get up, Stand up.


> Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights! Get up, stand up: don't give up the fight!





ekim said:


> If your values, freedoms, rights are not important then you don't have to choose between us or them. You can straddle the fence or throw chance to the wind and take what comes your way, just remember than if you straddle the fence and your footing slips it could end up being painful when that fencing bites your butt. IMO, that has been the problem for many years in this country, to many took the easy way and just went along and didn't choose, now we are paying the piper.


I have always been a fence jumper, I am not good at biting my tongue. I do think a few people on here have very sore bums!

I can't even imagine what this country would be like if people didn't get so complacent. Now people are starting to remember 'we the people', I often wonder if it is to late to climb back up the slope we have been sliding down.



PatriotFlamethrower said:


> Auntie, you can thank the federal government, and particularly the LIBERALS, for systematically creating this "us against them" mentality among U.S. citizens.
> 
> "Divide and conquer" is one of the oldest forms of control and capitulation there is.
> 
> ...


I agree this forum has a great group of people with varied areas of expertise. It hurts me to see some of that expertise be tossed aside like yesterdays newspaper.

As far as this country Obama was supposed to bring hope and change. Well we have a more divided country and as far as hope well we can hope that we can dig out of the hole we are in now. Change, the good news is that there will be a change in the leadership of this country but will it be soon enough?



Prepared One said:


> Auntie, I have always enjoyed your posts. They are honest and forthright. One can not ask for more out of people I am thinking. Groups will always be around in some form or other I suppose. It is human nature, in fact, it is nature. Unless, as suggested, we evolve but I am seeing regression rather then progression. Now, has anyone applied for the position of town drunk in this town of yours?


Sorry Prepared One but the position of town drunk is appointed no applications can be accepted. Perhaps we should have a democratic vote  I think we all know who will be appointed as the religious zealot.

Seriously am I the only one who gives everyone a position? I am of course the crazy auntie! I am sure we all know who the black sheep of the community is. Am I allowed to say black sheep or are the PC police around again?

To answer the question that some of you may be wondering, the only thing I have been drinking is coffee and no even though I live in CO I do not partake of the legal herbage.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Yikes sorry it was so long. I should have broken it up a bit, however, I had a few things to say.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Auntie,
You have a good head on your shoulders and a great heart. You do your share of critical thinking and we are the richer for it. (danger generalization coming) As a woman you have your heart wrapped around those you care about. I believe that is the way It should be but I am also aware that you can get hurt by both the actions of those you care about and the consequences they have to accept for their actions. Being here, on this forum, is like being in someone else's home. They (the owners) decide what is and is not acceptable behaviors and we either accept that or they can tell us not to come back. No system involving humans is ever going to be perfect but then if it was perfect we wouldn't be here because we can't live up to perfect.

Sometimes you have to look past the stuff others do and just remain true to yourself even if it means breaking the rules. Other times you can let the crap roll off your back because it isn't important enough to express and ignoring it doesn't compromise yourself. Sometimes it is a conflict from a misunderstanding or an opinion formed over something that just shouldn't have happened but did. Life is like that and the only thing we have control over is how we respond. We all have strong feelings that are important to us but they are rarely shared and sometimes they are a source of differences that go directly to our core. It is best to agree to disagree because there are somethings that that cannot be changed, others that must be changed but are only accessible from within. 

The "serenity prayer" used to be a favorite of mine when I was growing up - my mom had it hanging on the living room wall. It's the one that AA uses:
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Now that is from memory so it might not be a "correct" quote but it gets the idea across.
Live your life with joy, fight when you must, and know when to walk away.

My mom also used to define important matters by asking, "how important will it be in ten years?" More often than not the things we get upset about won't make any difference with the passage of time.

I have come to care about some of the people on this board, and you are one of those people. Please be as kind to yourself as you are to others - you are worth it.
Paul


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

PaulS said:


> Auntie,
> You have a good head on your shoulders and a great heart. You do your share of critical thinking and we are the richer for it. (danger generalization coming) As a woman you have your heart wrapped around those you care about. I believe that is the way It should be but I am also aware that you can get hurt by both the actions of those you care about and the consequences they have to accept for their actions. Being here, on this forum, is like being in someone else's home. They (the owners) decide what is and is not acceptable behaviors and we either accept that or they can tell us not to come back. No system involving humans is ever going to be perfect but then if it was perfect we wouldn't be here because we can't live up to perfect.
> 
> Sometimes you have to look past the stuff others do and just remain true to yourself even if it means breaking the rules. Other times you can let the crap roll off your back because it isn't important enough to express and ignoring it doesn't compromise yourself. Sometimes it is a conflict from a misunderstanding or an opinion formed over something that just shouldn't have happened but did. Life is like that and the only thing we have control over is how we respond. We all have strong feelings that are important to us but they are rarely shared and sometimes they are a source of differences that go directly to our core. It is best to agree to disagree because there are somethings that that cannot be changed, others that must be changed but are only accessible from within.
> ...


The serenity prayer is on my fridge. I agree sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war. Isn't complacency part of the problem in the world? No one seems to stand up and say - What? Why? I am out spoken sometimes, there are a few things I am very passionate about. Sometimes it gets me into trouble, sometimes it makes a small change. If there are enough small changes then the world would be a better place. Next to the serenity prayer is another famous saying "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything."

As I mentioned I am passionate about a few things, being a good Christian woman, what I perceive to be a twisting of words or verses, speaking up when I see an inequity, and abuse. There are more but these are the ones that pertain to my current thread.

I have been seeing a lot of double standards and retribution that doesn't seem to fit the wrong doing. I am sure there is more going on behind the curtain so I don't understand why this is happening. There are a few people that keep crossing the line and they are still here. Someone says one thing and they are now gone.

I understand the pot stirrers getting a time out, but shouldn't all pot stirrers get a time out? I suppose since I am asking these questions I will now be considered a pot stirrer.

I am not so naive as to ask 'why can't we all just get along'. We are all humans and we have emotions and sometimes they get the best of us. We as a community will always have disagreements and not see eye to eye. So we chose to keep up the debate and try to get our point understood, not necessarily to change the other persons point of view or lay down the ruler and leave the conversation.

I can only bite my tongue for so long until it really starts to hurt, then I have to say something. So I have had my say and hope that it has planted a little seed that will grow and others will realize the double standard that seems to exist.

I appreciate the kind words Paul, I like your approach, ideas and have respect for you. Hopefully we will be able to converse in the future  You sir in my opinion are the mediator and voice of reason in this community.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

I have a couple internet terrierists on my ignore list and all is calm here.
I've been away for about 5 days, so who got banned lately? :armata_PDT_25:


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Whoops, never mind! just found a couple of them in another thread!.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Much like you, I do not care if people on here like me or not or agree with me or not. I am going to say what I think to be true regardless.
> 
> The STRAIGHT SHOOTERS are the ones that agree with you, the LOUD MOUTHS are the ones with an opposite opinion.
> 
> ...


Hey I see you got your prescription of Richard pills refilled. You must really love me I see you just can't stop talking about me.

Better take a nitro pill too before you give yourself a heart attack.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

This place has been going down the tubes for a very long time. Threads that are created for obvious trolling are allowed to remain open and the originators of them are not banned. Then people are banned for no apparent reason other than it was Tuesday. 

I come here for comic relief now, very little useful information is posted here anymore.


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

dsdmmat said:


> This place has been going down the tubes for a very long time. Threads that are created for obvious trolling are allowed to remain open and the originators of them are not banned. Then people are banned for no apparent reason other than it was Tuesday.
> 
> I come here for comic relief now, very little useful information is posted here anymore.


 There have been some informative threads, I suppose those could have been about things you don't care about or know about already. What kind of threads would you like to see?


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

A few observations and comments are in order, I think.

Many of the topics discussed here can be controversial. We all have different views and ideals, but a forum, by it's very nature, is a place where differing views can be expressed and talked about. It's easy to see someone as a "pot stirrer" when they post something with which you don't agree, but that's a subjective call... an opinion.

Of course we should be free to share our opinions ABOUT A TOPIC, but that doesn't give anyone the right to openly attack the poster. If you suspect someone is just trolling, remember the cardinal rule of forums... Don't Feed The Trolls. Refute their ideas and present your reasoning if you must, but when someone says words to the effect of, "only a complete moron would think like that, etc etc," they have crossed the line.

We have all agreed to conduct ourselves in accordance with the site's terms of use, which forbids personal attacks, flaming other members, harassment, etc. You all affixed your digital signature to this agreement when you created your account. Yes, I know, very few actually read the rules before checking the, "I Agree" box and hitting the "Register" button, but the fact remains: you all gave your word to abide by the rules. Honor your word.

In a nutshell, posting controversial topics isn't against the site's rules, personally attacking other members is. 

You guys and gals don't see all that goes on in the staff section. With very few exceptions, those who have administrative action taken against them have been through a process, though you only see the end result of this process. There was usually one or more PMs requesting that the person follow the rules. There is often a warning given in the specific thread. There is usually an informal warning. Often, the staff talks about the incident and comes to a group consensus about it's impact on the site and possible solutions to the problem. Only when these means have been exhausted (and ignored) does it go to the next level, which can result in a suspension or ban. 

Blaming the mods or admins misses the point: the responsibility (or lack thereof) is on the party refusing to live up to their agreement, not on those forced to take action against them.

The rules should apply equally to everyone or should apply to no one. At the bottom left of each post is a little triangle with an exclamation point inside it. If you think the rules are being applied unfairly, use this button to report the offending post. State your case and we'll take a closer look. I know I don't have time to read every single post, though I read as many as time allows, but the reported posts go to a special section in the staff area and do get seen.

And yeah, it's unreasonable to expect us to all hold hands and sing, "We Are The World." If you don't agree with a post, you are (and always have been) free to post a differing opinion. Point out factual errors, tell us why you think or feel how you do, tell us all what you see as wrong WITH THE POST, but do us all a favor and leave personalities out of it. This is a forum where rational adults can discuss ideas and concepts without being verbally assaulted by the playground bully.

Thanks for taking the time to listen.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Only if Slippy gets to sing either the Bruce Springsteen or Cindy Lauper part!


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Only if Slippy gets to sing either the Bruce Springsteen or Cindy Lauper part!


I'm fine with that as long as I get to be Willie Nelson or Bob Dylan.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I think you all are barking mad, every single one of you.

Y'all are nuttier than a jar of Planters cashews. You are off the deep end, you have blown a gasket, blown your stacks, flipped out, flown off the handle, gone bananas, gone batty, berserk, bonkers daffy, haywire, loco, loony, mental, off the deep end, you have bats in the attic (and in the belfry), you are whacko, psycho and off your rocker. You are buggy, cuckoo and are totally cracked! 

Just so you know...


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I think you all are barking mad, every single one of you.
> 
> Y'all are nuttier than a jar of Planters cashews. You are off the deep end, you have blown a gasket, blown your stacks, flipped out, flown off the handle, gone bananas, gone batty, berserk, bonkers daffy, haywire, loco, loony, mental, off the deep end, you have bats in the attic (and in the belfry), you are whacko, psycho and off your rocker. You are buggy, cuckoo and are totally cracked!
> 
> Just so you know...


Captain Obvious^^^^^


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

If somebody is a Democratic can we point that out

Is it ok to say they are liberal?

can we mention the obvious? 

If they say they will kill for food, can we point out they are immoral buggers?

If they are atheists is it ok to point that out?

When does it stop being "calling a spade a spade" and start being "name calling"?

I think somebody needs to clarify these things a little better.. 
-------------------------

AND I think if somebody accuses a person of doing something wrong, they need to back it up with facts and not just bellyache because they were offended....


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> A few observations and comments are in order, I think.
> 
> Many of the topics discussed here can be controversial. We all have different views and ideals, but a forum, by it's very nature, is a place where differing views can be expressed and talked about. It's easy to see someone as a "pot stirrer" when they post something with which you don't agree, but that's a subjective call... an opinion.
> 
> ...


Thank you Prepadoodle I appreciate the time you took to answer some of my questions. It is nice to see that you agree that the "rules should apply equally to everyone or should apply to no one". I was not aware of the warnings that are sent via PM so thanks for clearing that up. I also didn't know about the little triangle. I doubt I would use that since I tend to say to the person what I think of their comments. I usually try to do it politely, however I will admit that there have been 2 times that I did not refrain from voicing exactly how I felt about their actions. My tongue gets very sore from biting it all the time.

So, the usual course of action is a warning then a time out. Is there a list somewhere that says how much time a person gets to think of their actions? I.E. A personal attack, threatening someone, calling out a mod, calling out the owners of the site. Or is it a case by case situation? If someone constantly attacks people does that double the time? Does the time out double each time they are banned or put on vacation?

In my opinion part of a forum is the different view points. If we all had the same view point there wouldn't be much point in coming to a forum to discuss things. I have changed my mind on a couple of things after I was given a different perspective. There will always be disagreements, that is part of life. There will always be personality clashes, that again part of life. I will admit that I do enjoy a lively debate at times.

Sometimes it seems like it is not the action of the posters that causes problems but who the personal attack was against. Maybe I do need a tinfoil hat. Why is there no tinfoil hat emoticon?


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> I think you all are barking mad, every single one of you.
> 
> Y'all are nuttier than a jar of Planters cashews. You are off the deep end, you have blown a gasket, blown your stacks, flipped out, flown off the handle, gone bananas, gone batty, berserk, bonkers daffy, haywire, loco, loony, mental, off the deep end, you have bats in the attic (and in the belfry), you are whacko, psycho and off your rocker. You are buggy, cuckoo and are totally cracked!
> 
> Just so you know...


Oh no how did you get copies of my records and tests from the psychiatrist? :concern:


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Good thread. 
Auntie,, the reason I post less is probably just laziness. I absolutely hate this phone. Iused to download videos, from my desktop, strait to this site. I could pull any picture from my gallery and post it. 
Now, I have to start the post, take the picture, wait about two minutes, then post the pic. 
I enjoy learning, teaching, bragging, arguing, and observing.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Deebo said:


> Good thread.
> Auntie,, the reason I post less is probably just laziness. I absolutely hate this phone. Iused to download videos, from my desktop, strait to this site. I could pull any picture from my gallery and post it.
> Now, I have to start the post, take the picture, wait about two minutes, then post the pic.
> I enjoy learning, teaching, bragging, arguing, and observing.


My hat is off to anyone who can post on a phone. Heck, my tablet is more taxing than I can stand.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Put it back on, your blinding me.....


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Deebo said:


> Put it back on, your blinding me.....


Oh. That hurt.

If I had any feelings left, it would.

:surrender:


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Auntie said:


> There have been some informative threads, I suppose those could have been about things you don't care about or know about already. What kind of threads would you like to see?


I mainly read about making your own electricity, budget-prepper is a pretty good source of real world experience verses what someone has read or heard from a buddy. Food prep for long term storage is also interesting.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> A few observations and comments are in order, I think.
> 
> Many of the topics discussed here can be controversial. We all have different views and ideals, but a forum, by it's very nature, is a place where differing views can be expressed and talked about. It's easy to see someone as a "pot stirrer" when they post something with which you don't agree, but that's a subjective call... an opinion.
> 
> ...


OK. I will sing but I ain't holding nobody's damn hand


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> If somebody is a Democratic can we point that out?


No. Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.



Maine-Marine said:


> Is it ok to say they are liberal?


No. Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.



Maine-Marine said:


> can we mention the obvious?


Sure, if is has to do with the post and not the poster.



Maine-Marine said:


> If they say they will kill for food, can we point out they are immoral buggers?


No. Feel free to say something like, "I find the idea of killing for food to be morally unacceptable and wouldn't do it." See the difference? Keep your opinions of the other forum members to yourself. The forum is here to share ideas, techniques, and other information related (mostly) to prepping, not to talk about what you like or don't like about other members.



Maine-Marine said:


> If they are atheists is it ok to point that out?


No. I'm sure they already know if they are an atheist. What's the point? Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.



Maine-Marine said:


> When does it stop being "calling a spade a spade" and start being "name calling"?


When you start talking about the poster instead of the post. For example...

"Only an immoral Democratic atheist would post something like that." <--- refers to the poster.

"I don't agree with any of that because I feel that...." <--- refers to the post

You really don't see the difference?



Maine-Marine said:


> I think somebody needs to clarify these things a little better.


Are we clear now? I hope so, because the rules about personal attacks will be enforced. Period.


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## DadofTheFamily (Feb 19, 2015)

Human nature. There will always be strife. Right now it's prepper VS NWO. When SHTF, there will be prepper VS prepper strife (and the NWO will love that!). There's only one answer...

James 4: 1-12 _What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions[a] are at war within you?* 2 You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. 4 You adulterous people![c] Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, "He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us"? 6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble." 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers.[d] The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?*_*

I need to remind myself of this daily.*


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> No. Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.
> 
> No. Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.
> 
> ...


Wow! You know, that is the best explanation of how to post!

Did you have to think of that or did it just come to you? I've been trying to figure out how to say that but couldn't get the thoughts together.

You are AWESOME!!!


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> No. Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.
> 
> No. Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.
> 
> ...


Crystal clear! Thanks for clarifying it in very simple terms that everyone can understand. Hopefully this will take care of the problems that we have been experiencing. I would like to suggest that your well worded reply be put in the rules to describe what a personal attack is.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Auntie said:


> Thank you Prepadoodle I appreciate the time you took to answer some of my questions. It is nice to see that you agree that the "rules should apply equally to everyone or should apply to no one". I was not aware of the warnings that are sent via PM so thanks for clearing that up. I also didn't know about the little triangle. I doubt I would use that since I tend to say to the person what I think of their comments. I usually try to do it politely, however I will admit that there have been 2 times that I did not refrain from voicing exactly how I felt about their actions. My tongue gets very sore from biting it all the time.
> 
> So, the usual course of action is a warning then a time out. Is there a list somewhere that says how much time a person gets to think of their actions? I.E. A personal attack, threatening someone, calling out a mod, calling out the owners of the site. Or is it a case by case situation? If someone constantly attacks people does that double the time? Does the time out double each time they are banned or put on vacation?
> 
> ...


First of all, you're welcome.

Say what you will about anyone's comments, just don't cross the line and start saying what you think about the person making the comment. I honestly don't see why the distinction is so hard for people to see.

The usual course of action is a PM conversation followed by a formal warning (which doesn't carry any points) followed by an infraction (which does carry points.) Accumulate too many points and the system automatically applies a time out. Points eventually go away. If someone continues to cross the line, it can result in a permanent ban.

This procedure isn't always followed, and there are other factors too. For example, it's not uncommon for spammers to get perma-banned right off the bat. The person's attitude also has something to do with it. Some people think the rules don't apply to them and make this very clear in their interactions with the staff. If it becomes clear that a person has no respect for the rules, they are shown the door.

Mods have quite a bit of discretion in how they handle a given situation, and the admins have even more.

The points and ban durations are listed here... Infraction Tool Usage

And the rules are posted here... Prepper Forums Rules


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> No. Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.
> 
> No. Leave the poster out of it and talk about the post.
> 
> ...


Do I REALLY see the difference???? some yes some no

in an open debate - like here -it is often good to know if the person you are discussing things with is an atheists, a left wing liberal theologian, a troll, a government agent, etc....

point that out may actually HELP others to SEE/interpret the post...

In a discussion on pikes it is good to know that slippy is a pike maker
In a discussion on bible things it is good to know WHO believes the bible and who doesn't
In a discussion on medical issue it is good to know who is anti medical treatment

and if it is true that "Only an immoral Democratic atheist would post something like that" -I am not sure it is a bad thing to post


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

as to personal attacks......

If you are saying something that is UNTRUE then that is wrong

saying something true about a person, could only be viewed as bad if they are ashamed of what they are.... (or if you are calling them out for being overwieght or ugly - that is bad)

calling an atheists an atheists or a lesbian a lesbian..is that wrong


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Do I REALLY see the difference???? some yes some no
> 
> in an open debate - like here -it is often good to know if the person you are discussing things with is an atheists, a left wing liberal theologian, a troll, a government agent, etc....
> 
> ...


Yeah, I do understand the point. Text is a poor way to communicate, and knowing where someone is coming from helps to put their remarks in context. It's ok to ask someone to provide information such as, "Are you an atheist? Are you a Democrat? How do you justify killing someone just to see what a spleen tastes like?" or whatever. Forums exist for dialog, not a series of isolated monologues.

The site owners invested their time, money and effort to provide a forum where we can share ideas. They provide this service free of charge, and in exchange, we agree to abide by the rules they set. The rules are very specific about personal attacks, flaming, and harassment. I don't know what else to say about it... it is what it is.

These rules exist to encourage people to join and contribute. We have all been outside of a clique looking in, and we all know how hard it can be to gain acceptance in most groups. Let's make it easy for everyone to throw in their two cents by not slamming people just because we don't happen to agree with their perspective. It's not that hard to do.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> as to personal attacks......
> 
> If you are saying something that is UNTRUE then that is wrong
> 
> ...


Why do you feel the need to call anybody anything?

Anyway, I think I've made the position clear... you are free to say what you will about a post, but leave your personal opinions about the poster out of it.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Prepared One said:


> OK. I will sing but I ain't holding nobody's damn hand


Drats! Foiled again!

(And I was jockeying my way to share a mic with PO)


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

On a separate note, can we simply stop all this talk of rules and such nonsense? It's making me nauseous. 

Thanks


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Auntie, I don't think anyone could explain things any better than how Doodles explained it, but let me try and explain how I tend to work the board. I've been thinking about this since you posted this, but I wasn't sure if you were talking about the board in particular or the world in general, so I haven't posted.

As Doodles said, text form of communication is a bit difficult. It rarely reads as the laywriter hears it in his head. I try and take that into consideration as most aren't trained writers. Because of this, it might take me time to react when some people might think I should have acted quicker.

A tendency to speak directly to someone, as if they are having a face to face conversation. Were you and I to speak in person, we would speak about concepts as well as speak about each other. That is perfectly natural, too. We would be feeling each other out with regard to what topic is being discussed. Gardening, for example. I might be saying things to you, and you would then want to know my background in the subject. You'd quickly find out that I was just talking from a reader's standpoint instead of yours; an experienced, hands-on expert in the field. In the text form, this can come off as an attack because the reader will not have tones and body language to help understand the intent.

All these things being the case, what I look for is clear viciousness and the intention to do nothing but troll and derail. Sometimes it takes me a while to come to the conclusion this is the intention, and there are usually PMs involved before I take action.

Anyway, there is my way of thinking.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Prepadoodle said:


> Why do you feel the need to call anybody anything?
> 
> Anyway, I think I've made the position clear... you are free to say what you will about a post, but leave your personal opinions about the poster out of it.


calling somebody something... If I say YOU ARE A MODERATOR I am not calling you anything, I am stating a fact. If I say to somebody else, "of course you feel that way your an atheists/liberal/fundamentalist/lesbian- or whatever... it just clarifies that they are taking the stance because of X

as Aristotle said

To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true.

I have said slew is an atheists and I have mentioned PaulS stance on Bible Doctrine... I am still not convinced that pointing out what they are is calling names.. PaulS "called" me a Fundamentalists - I was not insulted.

If I or others start "calling" people things that are not true or are hurtful... I am opposed to that... However saying slippy is whipped, prepadoodle is a nice guy, or denton is a harda$$ is just speaking truth....


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> However saying slippy is whipped.....


I AM NOT...I'm telling Mrs Slippy on you and then you will be in big trouble Mister!

(Slippy looks around then a thought comes across, "I hope she doesn't get mad at me for bothering her while I give her the daily pedicure")


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

MM, again, I see the point and agree. It's not fair to expect someone to toe a line that isn't well defined.

Truth be told, the line _isn't_ well defined, nor can it be. What is a simple statement of fact and what's an attack? Basically, it comes down to intent, and it's not easy to determine someone's intent. We try to be as fair and impartial as possible, but it's more art than science. I always PM and talk and only take official action as a last resort, and this is pretty much the norm here.

Those following the general suggestion of being critical of a post but not the poster will never find themselves at risk.

When someone uses the "report this post" button to complain about a perceived attack directed at them, we can't ignore it. This doesn't mean we will definitely take formal action against anyone, but yeah, they will get PMed and asked to back off. What happens after that is on them.

Anyway, the reason I posted in this thread is to try to explain that there is a process going on behind the scenes, even if you only see the very end of that process. Take a few minutes to read the rules... after all, you agreed to abide by them.

Treat other people the way you want to be treated and everything will be fine. I've learned a lot here, keep it coming, and thanks for teaching this old dog so many new tricks. I probably don't say this enough, but I love you guys!!! ("love" in an entirely non-threatening heterosexual way)


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> ... I probably don't say this enough, but I love you guys!!! ("love" in an entirely non-threatening heterosexual way)...


Drats, foiled again.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Let me make a suggestion. I have plenty of friends and neighbors who I'd like to suggest or feel out their thoughts on prepping. I recently bought a bunch of copies of "One Second After"($7 on Amazon) (costs $ but we already spent cash on preps so I consider it just another prepping expense). 

I've been giving them out telling people that are a great read written about my home town by a guy who is a personal friend of 2 of my brothers. This gives me a reason to hand them out in the hopes that it will either open a discussion on prepping or maybe make them think just a little.

Only been a week but already got one friend asking about food storage and a neighbor asking about area defense.

While I'm not sure that EMP is what would cause a SHTF situation (assuming we ever have a SHTF situation) it al least allows me to get them thinking.

I suspect most people will not comment on my choice of reading materials, Many won't even bother to read it. But it's the best I can do to close the gap between non-preppers and me without directly challenging the "protective shell of ignorance" they choose to throw up against my desire to "buy a little insurance".


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I AM NOT...I'm telling Mrs Slippy on you and then you will be in big trouble Mister!
> 
> (Slippy looks around then a thought comes across, "I hope she doesn't get mad at me for bothering her while I give her the daily pedicure")


Shouting " I am not whipped! " then looking around to make sure Mrs slippy is not standing nearby.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Like Boss' Dad used to say; I'm the boss of this house and I have my wife's permission to say so! :laughhard:


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