# non lethal weapons choices



## treehugger (Dec 29, 2014)

ok, I'm not new to this 'lifestyle' but having guns around is something that I've never taken to. I have knives, axes, and several less than lethal alternatives.
( Honestly almost anything could be used as a weapon.) But I would like to obtain something that doesn't require close contact with an aggressor. ie....have looked at pellet guns, paint guns, things that shoot rubber bullets. All very confusing.
so, my criteria is - won't kill but will make someone seriously think twice about continuing their approach
can be used at a distance from attacker
doesn't require any license
can rapid fire multiple shots without reloading or pumping back up
does not requiring storing items with a 'shelf life' such as co2 canisters
not too spendy 

I know there has to be other people out there who, for whatever reason, don't have a stockpile of guns and ammo around. What do other people use, recommend?


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## scramble4a5 (Nov 1, 2012)

Bear spray?


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

They sell pepper spray at Walmart for $9.99 
People have mentioned wasp and hornet spray too, the ad on it sometimes says x number of feet.

Youth bow and arrows are on clearance at Kmart.


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## treehugger (Dec 29, 2014)

I have wasp spray, pepper spray. I'm looking for something that doesn't require being so close to an aggressor....I'd like some type of pistol that shoots rubber bullets, but since i'm not really sure what I'm looking for it all gets very confusing.
I also have a crossbow pistol, which is really cool and fun but slow to reload.
I wouldn't need a youth bow, I'm fairly proficient with a regular compound bow.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

If there is an EOTWAWKI event, . . . and you are "reluctant" to defend your preps, . . . you my friend are not going to be a treehugger, . . . you'll be hanging from it.

Bullies, . . . punks, . . . and folks like those who rioted in Ferguson, Mo. just love your attitude.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

I will have a lot of guns!!!


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## treehugger (Dec 29, 2014)

wow, this is just not a safe place. I was looking to get some advice from like-minded people, not to be attacked.


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## scramble4a5 (Nov 1, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> If there is an EOTWAWKI event, . . . and you are "reluctant" to defend your preps, . . . you my friend are not going to be a treehugger, . . . you'll be hanging from it.
> 
> Bullies, . . . punks, . . . and folks like those who rioted in Ferguson, Mo. just love your attitude.
> 
> ...


He makes a great point. If the SHTF a firearm for defense will be a necessity. Otherwise you will be a victim or bait. Maybe look in to an NRA training class to get more comfortable with handling a firearm. Worked for me.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Ok, the aggressor has thought twice about messing with you. He decides that what you have is worth the risk of of getting hurt and he succeeds in killing you. Now what? Hopefully the aggressor will at least bury you and your loved ones, but I doubt it. When it comes down to survival, you will need to kill not scare off and aggressor because when it gets bad enough, it will be the only recourse. Sorry if that spoils your idea of survival, but it will be kill or be killed, plain and simple.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Hatchet. Axe. Knife. Bat. Frying pan. A fisticuffs. Stick. Rock. Large heavy object on a string. Short piece of chain. Six foot wood spear. Ninja sword. Staple gun. Broken beer bottles. Frying pan. Bar stool. Pool cue. Pool ball. Brass knuckles. Hammer. Crow bar. Monkey wrench. Rope. Sling shot. Bow. Automobile. Darts. Atlatl.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Trebuchet.


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## treehugger (Dec 29, 2014)

I totally understand your point of view, and I don't disagree with you. And I never said that if it all goes south I wasn't prepared to do what is necessary. And I have regular guns and am comfortable shooting. 
What I asked for was assistance is choosing a different type of weapon. If none of you are capable or knowledgeable in the area of info that I'm asking for then please refrain from commenting with your two cents worth.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Shot gun shell that shoots a bean bag.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_bag_round


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I have to be honest . I wish you luck. The BG's will not play your way. LTL weapons are for movies and Liberals in congress


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

treehugger said:


> wow, this is just not a safe place. I was looking to get some advice from like-minded people, not to be attacked.


If I were in your position I would buy pepper spray with the highest level of OC available. The OC is the "hot" chemical, and the cheap sprays have low amounts (that's why they are cheap).
FORGET wasp spray. If you use that on somebody, even if it is in self defense, the perps lawyer can use that against you in a civil case. You might lose everything you have.
Tasers are another alternative.
Pellet guns are useless, rubber bullets I have never heard of civilians using. I wouldn't even know where to look to find them.
If you use a knife to defend yourself a determined aggressor will take it away and kill you with it.

I taught my two daughters to shoot before they were 10 years old. They are both now almost 40 and have kids themselves. They also have guns in the home.
I would strongly suggest you take some gun training from an instructor that has been qualified by the National Rifle Association (NRA). You may decide you still do not wish to have a gun in the home, if so I would strongly suggest you find a significant other who would be willing to use force to protect you.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Blow gun I forgot a blowgun.


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## wallyLOZ (May 12, 2013)

Don't think anyone is attacking you, treehugger. More like trying to make you more aware of the gravity of a SHTF event. If you want to stop the threat at a distance you'll need to consider a firearm. Non-lethal methods will not stop someone determined to take what you have, including your life. Bug spray will not cut it. Same for a pellet rifle. Good luck and keep us posted on your decision.


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## turbo6 (Jun 27, 2014)

Guns are a very necessary part of prepping, IMO. If they are not for you, I respect that and I'll give you a few alteratives shortly. 

However, when dealing with multiple assailants in a home invasion or a SHTF scenario, nothing is as effective as a firearm. I certainly don't want to go toe to toe with 3 people armed only with a baseball bat.

What if they have knives? What if they have guns? At least then a gun of your own would give you a fighting chance, maybe enough to get them away from you. 

Guns are great equalizers. When faced with armed adversaries, it's your only hope.

With that said, there are other alternatives that might help in drastic situations. As mentioned before bear mace, pepper spray etc are usually effective in halting a bad guy. I use to have a large foam spray can mounted behind a coat rack near my front door when I lived in a bad area. Enough foam to cover about 5 faces or more. 

Baseball bats will always be a handy and nondescript bludgeon tool. Cold Steel makes a neat unbreakable poly framed bat for this purpose. 

Of course batons are another option... more compact. Still hit pretty hard. Some police still use them.

Can't forget edged weapons. Machetes, swords, hatchet, axe. However if you want something that will allow the most space between you and an attacker the obvious choice is a sword... the longer the better. Not decorative wall junk from BudK either.

Smaller blades are effective too. I love La Griffe style knives... short fixed blade, finger hole in the frame for optimal retention. Great smaller option for everyday carry.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The thing with knives is, for someone who doesn't want to shoot somebody in righteous self defense, I don't think that person would have the wherewithal to stick a 6" blade in somebody's gut and disembowel them.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Baseball bat.

Staring fluid and lighter. Instead flame thrower.

Balloon full of gas and a lighter. Soak the threat with gas and see how eager they are to continue while you have a lighter/cigarette in your hand.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

treehugger said:


> wow, this is just not a safe place. I was looking to get some advice from like-minded people, not to be attacked.


I don't think people are giving you a hard time, I think they are genuinely concerned that you might be in trouble if an actual scenario were to happen. Why are you uncomfortable with a firearm? Is it because you have never used one or are you morally opposed to their use? If it is the former, you can take steps to familiarize yourself with firearms and get training so that you can properly defend yourself and loved ones. If you are morally opposed to taking a life even in defense of your own or loved ones you should put up a no trespassing sign and hope for the best content in the knowledge that you stayed true to your principals.


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## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

treehugger said:


> wow, this is just not a safe place. I was looking to get some advice from like-minded people, not to be attacked.


thought about a flair gun they work .


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

A shoulder-fired rainbow launcher? Anyone have a spare?


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## Sharkbait (Feb 9, 2014)

Kitten canon?


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Sharkbait said:


> Kitten canon?


You is a bad man!!!


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## jackmobes (Jan 3, 2014)

37mm, WARNING it's addictive and gets expensive. For anti personnel like you want, you would have to register it as a destructive device with the ACT to be on the up and up. If your hat is made from tinfoil, good news, you can buy one and have it shipped right to your door, no paperwork. Only use flares and gas though, unless you want feds kicking down your door.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

treehugger, the US has 100 million gun owners and 300 million guns. Maybe 3 million prep and therefore don't need your stuff. You may want to find like minded people on some foreign sites where they have to make due because of gun controls in their countries, but in the US I don't think you're going to find many that want to limit themselves.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

A squirt bottle filled with fairy spit?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Mish said:


> You is a bad man!!!


Cat-a-Pult: Splat Go the Kitty Cats | Free Online Games | Funny Games: Themes to Amuse You


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

jackmobes said:


> 37mm, WARNING it's addictive and gets expensive. For anti personnel like you want, you would have to register it as a destructive device with the ACT to be on the up and up. If your hat is made from tinfoil, good news, you can buy one and have it shipped right to your door, no paperwork. Only use flares and gas though, unless you want feds kicking down your door.


I didn't even know it was legal to own one... are these regulated by state gun laws at all?

edit: never mind I just did some research. Why on earth would someone buy a 450$ flare gun?


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

If you feel unsafe on the net where no one knows you or where you're at, what will you do in real time? It would be nice if we could put weapons on "stun" instead of lethal.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Bottom line is get some really good pepper spray and a gun. Bottom line is if things ever really get bad you will need the ability to use lethal force at long distance. A shotgun with birdshot or pepper spray may work inside the house and not be lethal but for a bad situation such as rioting or looters you will require a gun and preferably a gun that can shoot fast and hit hard.

Get both. one to make you feel good and one to protect yourself.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Not to split hairs, but the LEO I work with gave preference to pepper gel vs spray. Less likely to blow back in Your face in windy conditions. Larger containers vs bic lighter size. The bear spray at gander mtn comes in room deoderizer size. Way to big to pack in a ladies purse.


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## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

Well. She may be gone, but here's my idea. A big Dog, that likes you and not strangers, that is trained to "SIC" on command.:drool:


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Pepper spray. It may help you.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

The cans of wasp spray that shoot the 12ft stream. They have to quit and go to hospital, hose won't help. Good for distance and can't "tough" it either.

Spray bottle with (I'm not sure we're supposed to say how..) "something" in it that doesn't eat plastic but is pretty rough on us - there are a number of common options.

Balloons if applicable in the situation. We can hold back from the roof here until the balloons and arrows are gone.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I seen an interview where the woman suggested pissing and crapping your pants to fend off a would be attacker.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

alterego said:


> I seen an interview where the woman suggested pissing and crapping your pants to fend off a would be attacker.


I believe that was only for rapists and Amway salesmen.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

treehugger said:


> wow, this is just not a safe place. I was looking to get some advice from like-minded people, not to be attacked.


You are not getting allot of advice from "like minded" people because there aren't any. With the restrictions that you have placed the best advise that I can give you is to buy some running shoes and practice your ducking and dodging while you run away. The only thing that comes even close to what you want is a shotgun or rifle that fires rubber bullets. If you can find the ammo, it is very expensive, not very accurate, limited in range, and while you are firing non-lethal rounds at people they will be firing LETHAL rounds at you. People pointing out the fallacy of your question is not an "attack". No one attacked you personally, called you names, or threatened you. Perhaps your feelings on "being attacked" and "safe places" is part of the problem.

Seriously, if you are incapable of defending yourself or family with deadly force, then don't play around with trying to use non-lethal force from a distance. All you will accomplish is attracting unwanted attention and getting your attackers really pissed off at you. It will not stop most of them. Seriously, either run away or barricade your family and yourself somewhere and hope that help arrives before the bad guys get to you.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

treehugger said:


> wow, this is just not a safe place. I was looking to get some advice from like-minded people, not to be attacked.


First off, I hate that I missed this yesterday. I was inventorying my weaponry, watching football and sipping some whiskey and diet coke.

Some liberal comes here with a handle indicating that they are a hippy and asks a pro-gun crowd advice on non-lethal weaponry?

Then when it gets the advice, it then goes into some passive/aggressive bitch session about being attacked? Then, no surprise to me, it recants and states that it has guns and knows how to use them? Whaaat?

I know that people like this exist but I just don't know any of them personally for more than a few minutes. Good riddance "treehugger". But before you go, here is a little story that I like to tell the young people...

For almost 20 years I worked in the forest products industry where we cut down millions of trees with large heavy machines. We would do multiple things to these trees after we sliced them up from the forest and carried their dying carcasses away..

Sometimes we would rip their skin (we call it Bark) from them which entailed running the tree down a conveyor system into a series of rather large, sharp and nasty looking Blades. Then the trees, stripped of their precious skin, would meet a rather large intimidating saw, as large as a man is tall sometimes referred to as a head rig. That very large sharp saw would then cut the trees into large strips we call lumber. These wet large strips of cut up trees then would be put into an Oven!

Sometimes, we would run the dead fallen trees into a huge machine called a Chipper and grind up the trees up into small pieces of wood later to be added to boiling water with lots of chemicals to make a nasty thing called Paper. But my favorite was strapping the tree to a large spindle, pirecing its each end with a spearlike device and peeling the tree on a very sharp lathe like blade much like a roll of toilet paper...to make something we called plywood.

I swear, if you listened very carefully you could hear the trees screaming in agony...

Hee Hee Hee Hee:68:


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

treehugger sorry to be so blunt right off the bat. It don't make it right but I will try to explain. Forums like this are wide open for trolls. We get anti gun people that come in sights like this and slow try to push an agenda. Post like your first are often the approach they use.
To answer you question if you are not ready to defend yourself or others with lethal force than your only option is to not be there. By that I mean stay out of sight. avoid any contact with others. look at the news and world evnts it will not take much to see people will not just all get along.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Slippy said:


> First off, I hate that I missed this yesterday. I was inventorying my weaponry, watching football and sipping some whiskey and diet coke.
> 
> Some liberal comes here with a handle indicating that they are a hippy and asks a pro-gun crowd advice on non-lethal weaponry?
> 
> ...


Lmao! I bet you didn't hug them first!!! I never do!


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

OP. Get over this nonsense. You need guns to defend your family, your self and your property from thugs that want your stuff. Guns can also kill tasty animals for supper. Your not against that are you?


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

You guys are a bunch of meanies!!


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I don't believe that there are any 'less than lethal' ranging weapons that would fit your needs.

I can think of one that would work,but not practical for a civilian........ Fire truck with high pressure hose.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

On the other hand, I just got a can of pepper spray for my wife, and 120Decibel panic alarm.

As a get home weapon for myself during less than SHTF events like a storm, I am considering building an umbrella from a foosball table solid steel rod. But, I understand upfront that its value is limited.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mish said:


> You guys are a bunch of meanies!!


 When you are up to your tail in trouble you don't call the nice guy. He aint coming. truth often goes against what we would like to believe


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Also, Treehugger, if you want the most effective ranging defensive weapon that I can think of that is less than lethal....

I recommend prevention. Don't go out.

You could do a lot worse than staying at home with your lethal weapons.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Slippy said:


> First off, I hate that I missed this yesterday. .................. I swear, if you listened very carefully you could hear the trees screaming in agony...
> 
> Hee Hee Hee Hee:68:


Slippy, . . . you just ain't right, . . . :ambivalence:

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> Slippy, . . . you just ain't right, . . . :ambivalence:
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


And thats what makes Slippy's posts fun to read!


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I have a few hometown friends in the logging industry.

They maintain that once you've hugged a logger, you'll never go back to trees.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> I have a few hometown friends in the logging industry.
> 
> They maintain that once you've hugged a logger, you'll never go back to trees.


That's not true. They're retarded and they're thieves. They steal trees every chance they get and rip.off landowners like cheap street boos. Call a spade a spade.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

My family in Oregon were card carrying Loggers. I helped out one summer as did my son (I was proud of that kid). When I went, if there was a tree on the land we were cutting it hit the ground, I bucked it up, skidded it out loaded it on the truck with the binders and off it went. It was dangerous, hard work. Medford Oregon always had a brown haze from the red hot constant roar of the wigwam burners. 

The last time I went back I was advised by my sliver pickin uncle that they had the wrong idea. They learned about renewable harvest and replaced what they took with saplings. They learned not to clear cut a certain side of mountain tops because it took too long to grow back. He explained how now they work with the ecologists and not against them. The Wigwam burners of my youth were shut down cold iron. One rusting hulk remained and I was shown it. My loggers are smart, ecologically minded, tough as nails working men and women that can work me under the table. I am very proud of how beautiful the Rogue River Valley, Central and Eagle point and Butte Falls are now.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Wouldn't non lethal include shooting an assailant in the knee or foot? :arrow:


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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

1skrewsloose said:


> Not to split hairs, but the LEO I work with gave preference to pepper gel vs spray. Less likely to blow back in Your face in windy conditions. Larger containers vs bic lighter size. The bear spray at gander mtn comes in room deoderizer size. Way to big to pack in a ladies purse.


 Years ago I was on a train back to Montana and met a lady travelling alone who was having some difficulty with some young fellers who'd been drinking and forgot their manners. She was going on to Seattle after I got off in Whitefish, so I gave her a can of pepper spray I no longer needed as I was back home. She called a few days later to say she'd made it OK, but...after she got there, she went out beveraging with some girlfriends and, the next morning, hungover and anxious about a job interview, reached into her purse for hair spray and yep, got the bear spray and bombed herself good before she caught on. Her screams brought her roommate, who walked right into a dense cloud, and, some guys from down the hall with baseball bats, come to the rescue.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Amazes me how threads get so far off topic.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> Amazes me how threads get so far off topic.


And rightly so in the case of this thread...rightly so.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Well thanks for scaring the tree hugger away guys. I had so good ideas for him...or her. I guess I'll just have to share what I found with you.


























_The "Thunder Generator" was originally developed by Israeli farmers to scare away crop-eating birds. However, it has now grown to become a viable weapon against humans.In good conditions, the Thunder Generator can hurl a series of super-short shockwaves up to 100 meters (328 ft) away. In general, these shockwaves serve to only knock down and stun individuals. Any closer than 10 meters (33 ft), however, and the waves can result in permanent damage or death.To generate the 2,000 meters-per-second (6,560 ft/s) shockwaves, a highly combustible mixture of petroleum, air, and cooking gas is detonated. As the resulting waves of energy bounce around through the barrel, their force grows exponentially. Together, this produces a quick series of waves, each of which lasts a mere 300 milliseconds. With all of these benefits, it shouldn't be hard to see why the Thunder Generator is the pinnacle of non-lethal weapons._


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

HuntingHawk said:


> Wouldn't non lethal include shooting an assailant in the knee or foot? :arrow:


Eddie Murphy- Trading Places...."Anyone else want a limp" My bad, it was "another 48 hours"


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Trading Places! I still quote that movie as often as I can...because I'm a karate man and karate man bleed from the inside.


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## survival (Sep 26, 2011)

Folks, consider states with hard laws or no guns allowed for readers/guests that have to wait or cannot get a gun.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

My family comes from the poorest county in Maine and you have 2 options for work (well 3 if you count making shine) Growing potatoes or logging.... My family were loggers, My grandparents owned property in Silver-ridge that was for logging... My aunts worked in the paper mill and for a time I lived in the smelliest town in the known universe... Lincoln Maine

Opps back to topic... I dont know of any non lethal weapons, I come up with a lethal scenario for any weapon I can think of..


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