# Questions about twist rates and cheaper than dirt



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

OK so you guys have explained that shooting 55gn out of my 1-7 twist AR is not 
such good idea. But what would happen if 62gn is used in a slower twist? would it spin to slow and 
just be inaccurate or what? Maybe tumble? 

I was going to order some ammo from cheaper than dirt but then I got thinking.
Did cheaper than dirt play dirty when the gun world went nuts for a while? 

I may be cheap but I'm not that cheap even if there prices are good I would 
rather not feed the fire I'm fighting.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

CTD gouged the crap out of everybody att. The last time I check on them, their shipping was outrageous, I haven't been back. 

On the twist rate; certain combinations of bullet weight with certain twists produce varying accuracy results and some cause the bullet to be more unstable, cause it tumble more as soon as it hits anything. Someone will chime in with the correct data pretty soon, I'm sure.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

55 grain shoots just fine out of a 1-7 twist barrel. I wouldn't worry about that too much. The 62 grain may be an issue with any twist slower than 1-10 due to instability, there are warnings on Sierra bullet 65 grain boxes that state they are for 1-7 to 1-10 twist rates only. That is so you get the best possible performance out of your bullet.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Cheaper Than Dirt showed their true colors as a price gouger. They do not get my business anymore.

Check out In stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading supplies

There are a few threads about Twist Rates and Accuracy. I'll see if I can find them. Good luck


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Cheaper Than Dirt showed their true colors as a price gouger. They do not get my business anymore.
> 
> Check out In stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading supplies
> 
> There are a few threads about Twist Rates and Accuracy. I'll see if I can find them. Good luck


Slip is dead on here ^^^^^^^ delete their link and move on elsewhere.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/image1661.jpg
http://ferrarishields.com/venn.jpg
http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Twist-Rate-3-for-web.jpg

there are all kinds of charts out there. I have linked to a few.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Cheaper Than Dirt showed their true colors as a price gouger. They do not get my business anymore.
> 
> Check out In stock ammo, guns, magazines, and reloading supplies
> 
> There are a few threads about Twist Rates and Accuracy. I'll see if I can find them. Good luck


CTD has been dead to me for years. Price gouging dirt bags. Never will purchase from them again ever.


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## haydukeprepper (Apr 28, 2013)

Agreed. CTD are dirt bags.


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## Waterguy (Jul 15, 2015)

CTD also stopped selling guns for a bit after Sandy Hook. They issued a statement about evaluating selling weapons, blah, safety, blah, they fueled the flames of "online gun sales are killing the children".

Screw them. They won't get a penny of mine.

Ammomen.com is good.


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## reartinetiller (Feb 26, 2015)

1-7 through 1-10 are fine twists on a .223 barrel. The slower the twist the heavier the bullet can be used, but these ratios are just fine. A friend has target rifles with 1-14 and they will not handle heavy bullets, just light one. Roy


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

If 55 grainers were inaccurate out of 1/7 barrels, there would literally be millions of non-perforated targets around the world.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The 1 in 7 is designed for the shorter barrel . 55 gr will work in them . However the m4 (inch AR) was designed around a 62 to 77 gr round


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

dsdmmat said:


> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/image1661.jpg
> http://ferrarishields.com/venn.jpg
> http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Twist-Rate-3-for-web.jpg
> 
> there are all kinds of charts out there. I have linked to a few.


 Thanks,, From the charts it looks like the 1-7 twist would be the best for a SHTF AR
It seems to to be the most forgiving if your in a bind and using whatever ammo you 
could get your hands on.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

budgetprepp-n said:


> Thanks,, From the charts it looks like the 1-7 twist would be the best for a SHTF AR
> It seems to to be the most forgiving if your in a bind and using whatever ammo you
> could get your hands on.


No problem, most of mine are 1-8 I have a couple of 1-7s but I normally don't load anything heavier than 75 grain bullets in my 223s. I would suspect the vast majority of ammo you would scrounge in SHTF times will be either 55 grain or 62 grain since that was/is the military loadings for the round.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Once again it seems people are confusing the 223 and the 5.56 . Yes they share a common size but are different rounds . The early .223 ar15 was a 20 inch 1 in 12 platform . The 1 in 12 worked very well wit the 20 inch and a 55gr .223. The goal of the 5.56 in a 16 inch the M4 was to have lighter and Shorter rifle that would produce effective kills over a wide range. So the M4 was born. The 5.56 62 gr Penetrator was chosen over the 77gr because of it effectiveness over a wide range. The 77gr was used in limited cases for shorter range.
The penetrator is not nor was it ever an AP round. Penetrator was a reference to the effect on the body.
The talk about 55gr being inaccurate in a 1 in 7 come not from the 55gr as much as it does from most often the 55gr is found in a .223. When a 55gr .223 is fired from a m4 chambered for the 5.56 in a 1 in 7 it will not be as accurate as 5.56. Did not say it can't be done or that you can't kill with it. The zero for a .223 55gr is different than the one for a 5.56 62 gr.
Army burnt up 55.gr 223 on the range in M4's but it was never used to qualify in the m4.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

The bottom line on twist rates Nowadays is faster is better. Unless you shoot extreme distances where over-spin can adversely effect accuracy, or use extremely thin light for caliber projectiles that might fragment to violently, the current trend is to use the fastest twist rate to stabilize the heaviest projectiles within the caliber range. A 1:7 twist will not give the 100 Yard Target Winning Groups with 55 Grain projectiles that Bench Rest Shooters using 1:14 twist rates have achieved in the past. But a 1:14 twist rate will not properly stabilize the 77 Grain projectiles used for long range Target work Nowadays. Current trends for .223 Remington Precision Factory Built Rifles use a 1:9 twist on the 24 inch or longer barrels. 1:7 twist on the 10.5 inch or longer has become a Military Specification for 5.56 x 45 mm (NATO). You will have no trouble using 55 grain standard projectiles out of a 1:7 twist rate rifle, however you can run into stability problems with 77 grain or heavier long range high BC projectiles with slower than 1:7 twist rate barrels. Hope this helps.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The 1 in 9 came about for shooting paper with the right rounds in the right weapon they could do better a punching holes in paper. The 1 in 9 was not about being a killing weapon.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

M193 = 55gr
M855 = 62 gr
No confusion on my part.
I run 223 wylde chambers which makes the 5.56 NATO/ 223 Remington issue moot for me.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/223-556.pdf
a chart that shows the differences in the *chambers* for those who really want to know.


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## shootbrownelk (Jul 9, 2014)

Cheaper than Dirt were price gouging weasels right after Sandy Hook. I remember them charging $90 for a brick of .22LR. Some also forget that Dick's sporting goods pulled all AR's off the shelves at the same time. I'll never spend a cent at either one of those back-stabbing business. They're no friend of the gun owner and the 2nd amendment.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

CTD? I don't spend money with them.
Twist rate does effect accuracy, I did my homework and came to the conclusion that in the .223/5.56 it was better to have a faster rate of twist say like a 1-7 than a slower rate of twist say like a 1-12. The difference in accuracy between the 55gr. and the 62gr. in a 1-7 twist AR barrel is there but barely noticeable, it's not something I'd worry about.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

My M193 clones work nice in a 20" pencil barrel with the 1 : 12 twist

My M855 clones work well with the 16" pencil barrel and 1 : 7 twist

The 20" barrel makes things happen though :joyous:


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> My M193 clones work nice in a 20" pencil barrel with the 1 : 12 twist


 There is a reason the Marines stayed with the AR15a4 version as long as they did. Test question what was the difference in the A3 and A4 version


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

The Happy Lever, plus barrel profile

An A2 Upper and barrel with the M16A1 FCG ?

In the civvy world the A3 is a flat top with rifle ramps
The A4 is a flat top with M4 feed ramps cut into the receiver

My guns have carry handles also


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

The M16A2 entered service in the 1980s and fired the NATO standard Belgian-designed M855/M856 cartridge.[2] The M16A2 is a select fire rifle capable of semi-automatic or three-round bursts and incorporating design elements desired by the Marine Corps.[2] These features included an adjustable rear-sight for windage and elevation, a 5/8 inch longer buttstock, heavier barrel, case deflector for left-handed shooters, and rounded handguards.[2] Mode of fire is determined by using a selector switch on the side of the weapon. The M16A3 was essentially an M16A2 with an M16A1 fire control group; this had only limited procurement by the USN. (FULL AUTO)

The M16A4 became standard issue for the United States Marine Corps during Operation Iraqi Freedom, increasingly replacing the earlier M16A2. In the United States Army, a combination of the M16A4 and M4 Carbine continues to replace existing M16A2 Rifles. The A4 incorporates a flattop receiver unit developed for the M4 Carbine, a handguard with four Picatinny rails for mounting optical sights, lasers, night vision devices, forward handgrips, removable carry handle and flashlights.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

AquaHull said:


> The Happy Lever, plus barrel profile
> 
> An A2 Upper and barrel with the M16A1 FCG ?
> 
> ...


 The A4 was also fitting with the rail system to except all of the tools the Military has for the m4. And there are a lot of them. While the A4 version was around few noticed it . They faded quickly from the infantry as the m4's were issued.


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## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

M16A4 Rifle | Weapons

M4A1 | US Special Operations | Weapons

Would you care to discuss the M4A2 SOPMOD?

Smitty901, I can attest to "Killing Rifle" ability the 26 inch 1:9 twist Remington Bolt Action Suppressed Rifle using MK262 NATO ammunition.

But US "Old Navy" folks might not be considered regular Infantry.


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