# 100 yards



## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

I have a question and I just wanted to get your personal onions on this. 
If you were putting together an AR what barrel would you use? Keep in mind this rifle may be used for longer distances in the future.. 
I would like to know Length, Twist Rate and what would you use for ammo? 223 or 5.56? how many grain? 

Sorry about all the questions but keep in mind until a few years ago a 22 and a shotgun was all I had ever shot. But I did shoot them quite often I'm having a blast learning about target shooting. And as I learn about twist rates what grain to use and a lot of other stuff I'm finding out some of the people that I thought were experts turned out to be less than expected. A lot of times when I ask a question I think I might understand and know the answer. Right now I'm running pretty much the standard stuff 16" 1-7 and I feed it 5.56 62Gn.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Your off the shelf AR-15 is good for 400 yards. I use 62 grain.

I'm sure there are people with all the technical info who'll be here, shortly.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

5.56, 62 grain. All day long. Don't see the need for anything else. I know I can fire 223, but if I'm going to pull the AR out for the reason I purchased it, I don't want to get bogged down by what caliber, what grain, what bullet etc I'm actually shooting. 

Pick a round your toy likes to eat, and stock up on it.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

When I purchased my first AR, I bought 1000 rounds of 55 grain 223. After that I stocked up on 55 grain bullets for reloading and I have a bunch of these stored. I have since learned that my guns like 62 grain bullets and heavier. The guns are much more accurate with the heavier bullets. That said, the 55s are cheap and fine for target practice and would certainly do the job on man-sized opponents if necessary. But if doing it all over again, I would try a box or 2 of each and determine what my gun liked and the stock up on the favored load.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

If your only going to have 1 AR. I'd suggest you go with a 308 AR-10.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

From a simple, . . . practical standpoint (gotta remember that I'm just a simple dude, . . . just cannot do frills), . . . if you are talking a scenario where you anticipate 90% or so of your shooting, . . . EOTWAWKI type stuff, . . . or just plain bad scenario stuff, . . . 

Then a 1/7 a 1/8 or most anything in that area will do you good, . . . 55 grain or 62 grain is good, . . . there just simply is NOT going to be that much difference. 

Set it up using whichever ammo you have the most of, . . . zero it for 25 to 35 yards, . . . (prefer 35 myself), . . . and that will set you up for being dead on POA at both the 25 to 35, . . . you'll be and inch or so high at 90 to 110 yds, . . . back on POA at 180 to 200, . . . and 1 inch low at 215 or so. 

Keep in mind I've got a 26 inch 1/8 stainless in a Stag upper, . . . with a 15 inch free floating handguard, . . . and she'll drop 15 out of 15 in a 2 inch square target at 100 yds. That is not a competition rifle by any stretch, . . . but it gets the job done.

And as well, . . . I've got a 18 inch barreled M16 clone (looks like the old school one used in Vietnam), . . . shoots as good, . . . and a 16 that was just thrown together with parts like a lego toy, . . . it too will keep em in the 10 ring at 100 yds, . . . 

It's also got what is known as a Wylde chambering, . . . which means it will suffice to handle either 5.56 or commercial .223, . . . go BANG at the right time, . . . and still stick it on the 2 x 2 at 100 yds.

The AR platform in 5.56 / .223 is a good stable platform for simple, . . . practical guys like me. No frills, . . . gets the job done.

Don't over think this question, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## redhawk (May 7, 2014)

I am a relatively new AR owner myself and I had many of the same questions as you have. I decided to try what Dwight55 said and zeroed my AR in at 35 yards. Mine has a 16" bbl with a 1:8 twist and I am shooting 55 gr bullets. I am very pleased with the results that I have, a 3 inch grouping at 100 yards off of a bench with open sights, and I expect an even better result if I choose to get a scope...JM2C


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I'd buy a Shilen barrel with a tight twist. You can shoot anything that way.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Chiefster23 said:


> When I purchased my first AR, I bought 1000 rounds of 55 grain 223. After that I stocked up on 55 grain bullets for reloading and I have a bunch of these stored. I have since learned that my guns like 62 grain bullets and heavier. The guns are much more accurate with the heavier bullets. That said, the 55s are cheap and fine for target practice and would certainly do the job on man-sized opponents if necessary. But if doing it all over again, I would try a box or 2 of each and determine what my gun liked and the stock up on the favored load.


I agree. Anyone can certainly shoot whatever they want and 55 and up will kill for sure. With that said, 1:7 twist AR's do tend to shoot the heavier grn ammo more accurately with more punch on the receiving end. 69-77grn for instance. I usually shoot a mix of 55 and 62 and mostly stock 62. I still do have all the makings for 500 rounds of 77grn mk262, but have not yet gotten the motivation to load them. Overall, you can not go wrong sticking with 62grn as it is readily available, cheap and 1:7, 1:8 & 1:9 range twists all shoot well.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

If you're shooting out to 100 yards, you're overthinking the whole thing.
Any barrel with any round will make it to 100 yards with little fuss.
You *might* keyhole with 55gr stuff, but you might not.

I chose a 1-7 twist for my 16" barrel. I wanted that little extra influence on the bullet just for the warm fuzzy I get knowing it can reach a tad bit farther if I ever wanted to reconfig the gun for long range.
At short range, it puts holes in things where I point it. That's good enough for now.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

True enough on any twist shooting pretty much any grn bullet at 100, but the OP did say.....



> Keep in mind this rifle may be used for longer distances in the future..


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

If I were building an AR I would think about what exactly I am gonna use it for! Once thats done you can build the gun to meet the stardards you need it to fill in order to "pick up the check" so to speak. What you have to keep in mind is there are no free rides and no do it all well gun, everything is going to be a comprimise to one degree or another. Every gun has a personality just like people and while there are some generalities, some guns will have quirks and preferences that defy all explaination.

*If I were building an AR for:*

Operating from a vehicle or house clearing, Range time, plinking...I would look at a 16 inch medium weight barrel with a 1-9 Twist. Generally speaking the short length barrel will work well in close confines and still print some good accuracy out to 400 yards on soft targets, ie; rioters, looters or other bad guys. Such a gun should work well with bullets in the 55 to 69 gr range which covers a lot of ground. There is quiet a wide variety of loads that will work well for a lot of things acceptably well. 55 FMJ is cheap and widely available and great for the target range. For serious accuracy and range work accuracy wise, the 69 gr Sierra Match King can be quiet the tack driver way out there. Need to put a deer/hog down at 75 yards and its legal in you area, the 64gr Winchester Power Point performs well as will the 60 gr Nosler Partition if they still make that bullet. For coyotes, a 55 gr soft or hollow point will make a personal statement with a exclaimation point on the end of it! Such a set up would also perform well with reduced loads in 55 grs on par with 22 Mag Rimfire velocities and a bit more punch down range. There is a reloading recipe for a good sub sonic load using the 69 gr Sierra Match King if you got a can and want to be discrete.

If I were using it for imtermediate to long range where accuracy is the primary fatcor to consider, I would look for a 20 inch medium weight fluted barreled gun with a 1-8 minimum or possible a 1-7 twist rate. It should handle bullets from 62-77 grs pretty handily in most cases. Just keep in mind that the 5.56/223 is a small case with limited powder capacity and the longer heavier bullets are going to slow down considerably as the weight goes up and limit powder capacity in the case a bit.

If the gun in question was going to be used for mainly varmints, plinking at the range and double as a people puncher if need be, I would look at a 18-20 inch medium to heavy barrel in 1-10 depending on how serious you are about hitting a ground hog at 300 yards with 45-62 gr bullets. Long Stream Lined bullets in about the 60-gr plus range may not work very well in such a fast twist set up.

*What would I use for ammo?*

I would try as wide a variety of ammo as I could get and see what my gun prefers. My 1-9 twist 5.56 MVP Varminter will shoot bullets as light as 53 grs depending on the bullet design decently, most 55 gr bullets very well, 60-64gr bullets about as good as it gets and the 69gr Sierra Match King is about as heavy as I can go in that gun and still get exceptional accuracy. Anything beyond the two extremes is quiet the crap shoot in my experience.

*What Chambering?*

Why 5.56 of course! Such a chamber will handle either or ammunition as would the Wyld Chamber would. With a 223 Chamber you may run into pressure issues using 5.56 ammo although most will be minor, but why take a chance right? If your a reloader....5.56 chamber is what you want as 5.56 brass if a dime a dozen and easy to find which keeps my shooting as cheap as possible. I can scrounge military brass a lot easier than I can scrounge once fired 223 brass.

I own several fire arms in 5.56/223, auto loaders and bolt actions and single shots and the above has pretty much been my experience with this chambering, some of that experience in combat in the middle east! So there is my Buck O Five on this subject, YMMV...


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Note: The 62 gr SS109 green tips are probably some of the crappiest bullets for anything that requires good accuracy. If you need additional penetration in a lighter weight bullets then its hard to beat. It is not a homongenous bullet design having a duplex metal core the the steel core penetrator isnt always centered in the bullet jacket perfectly centered and there fore accuracy can be less than outstanding. It will however provide several additional inches of penetration though just not so much more youll get overly excited.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

As of now there are some good Ar 15 uppers at a reasonable price out there. Even ones using the WYLDE chamber. The Wylde chamber offers the best of both worlds 223/5.56. While a .223 is not recommended for 5.56 some do it anyway. The 5.56 is ok for .223 but it suffers a slight lost in accuracy with .223. The Wylde chamber came about as a better way to do both. For some time it cam at a higher price and that really made it not worth it for most. However that is not the case right now. 
16-18 inch with 1 in 7 or 1 in 9


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

budgetprepp-n said:


> I have a question and I just wanted to get your personal onions on this.
> If you were putting together an AR what barrel would you use? Keep in mind this rifle may be used for longer distances in the future..
> I would like to know Length, Twist Rate and what would you use for ammo? 223 or 5.56? how many grain?


There are so many AR options that it is mind numbing. I've built several ARs from the ground up so I'll give my opinion.

Option 1. Get a Daniel Defense cold hammer forged, chrome lined, 1/7 twist, 16 inch barrel.
They are surprisingly accurate and are are as mil-spec or better as you will get. This will serve you well as a great all around battle rifle. Mine loves XM193 and also loves the 77 grain match ammo. It will shoot MOA with the 77s.

Option 2. Get a match grade barrel from these guys. http://www.compasslake.com
I recommend a 20 inch 1/7 or 1/8 twist barrel. Krieger or Bartlein would be my first choice. Don't go too heavy on the barrel profile as you won't like lugging it around.
This barrel with match bullets such as a 77 grain SMK can produce very tight groups and can enable you to take head shots at 600 yards. This is assuming the rest of the rifle is up to par.

There are so many other variables such as free floating hand guards, triggers, etc.

I run Geissele triggers in my ARs. https://geissele.com/lower-parts/triggers.html

The GI trigger is a POS. If you have one just throw it in your extra parts box and forget about it.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

The OP didn't state for SHTF or what, but I doubt that one would say, "what a piece of crap trigger this is" when faced with life or death. If you look at police reports, most don't even recall accurately how many rounds they fired. Adrenaline has strange affects. jmo. Not saying a good trigger is a bad thing. Buy as good as you can afford!

The GI trigger is a POS. If you have one just throw it in your extra parts box and forget about it.

It takes a good smith very little time to smooth out a stock trigger, cheaper than shooting 2k rounds and much better. Some dykem and you're good to go.

Agreed, the stock trigger is a POS.


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

1skrewsloose said:


> The OP didn't state for SHTF or what, but I doubt that one would say, "what a piece of crap trigger this is" when faced with life or death. If you look at police reports, most don't even recall accurately how many rounds they fired. Adrenaline has strange affects. jmo. Not saying a good trigger is a bad thing. Buy as good as you can afford!
> 
> The GI trigger is a POS. If you have one just throw it in your extra parts box and forget about it.
> It takes a good smith very little time to smooth out a stock trigger, cheaper than shooting 2k rounds and much better. Some dykem and you're good to go.
> ...


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## budgetprepp-n (Apr 7, 2013)

dwight55 said:


> From a simple, . . . practical standpoint (gotta remember that I'm just a simple dude, . . . just cannot do frills), . . . if you are talking a scenario where you anticipate 90% or so of your shooting, . . . EOTWAWKI type stuff, . . . or just plain bad scenario stuff, . . .
> 
> Then a 1/7 a 1/8 or most anything in that area will do you good, . . . 55 grain or 62 grain is good, . . . there just simply is NOT going to be that much difference.
> 
> ...


 We may need to change your screen name to "Obbie Wan Conobe" <---cheats,, uses the force when shooting.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

1/7 to 1/8 or 1/9 is fine. So many variables, barrel, shooter, weather etc etc. The rifle will out shoot you, and the ammo isnt always the same, even if it is same grain. Stick with same ammo manufacturer and grain.. Dont switch it up. Train with what you buy and plan on using in whatever scenario you think you will use it for.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

That chart is fine but I can tell you from experience that a 1/7 twist does a great job with 55 grain and up.

Unless I was varmint hunting I wouldn’t shoot anything under 55 grain.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Or just build a 300BLK, Suppress it and be able to shoot subsonic to supersonic, and supersonic is far better than the 556..


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Steve40th said:


> Or just build a 300BLK, Suppress it and be able to shoot subsonic to supersonic, and supersonic is far better than the 556..


That would be an outstanding setup and I've thought of doing it myself.

The supersonic 300BLK should have more energy than a 5.56 but it won't have the range if that's a requirement. You can get a high BC .223 and propel it at reasonably high velocities. You can't do the same with the 300BLK.

I was totally serious about building a 300BLK but just decided to get a .308 instead. I still want the 300 though.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

KUSA said:


> That would be an outstanding setup and I've thought of doing it myself.
> 
> The supersonic 300BLK should have more energy than a 5.56 but it won't have the range if that's a requirement. You can get a high BC .223 and propel it at reasonably high velocities. You can't do the same with the 300BLK.
> 
> I was totally serious about building a 300BLK but just decided to get a .308 instead. I still want the 300 though.


My Sig Sauer 220 Gr runs 1000ft/sec at 488 ft/lbs, not much, but right there with a 9mm (debatable, I know), and the super sonic CorBon 110T-DPX runs 2400 ft/sec at 1407 ft/lbs. 
Didnt mean to digress the thread, and 300BLK is not a great prepper round, as it isnt as prevalent as 55/223


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Steve40th said:


> Or just build a 300BLK, Suppress it and be able to shoot subsonic to supersonic, and supersonic is far better than the 556..


That would be wonderful for 0-200. Anything more it fails. 5.56 gets a bad rap. A good, not great round, but sufficient to 400. It was a compromise of weight versus power. I still rely on the 5.56, but like and use the 6.5 Grendel and .308 for AR's. I have other calibers for bolt and lever action rifles.


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