# Surviving a kidnapping.



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Seems like it would never happen to us. 
That stuff doesn't happen to grown adults where we live. 

Today a friend of mine was kidnapped by her abusive ex boyfriend right in front of me. 
The police just left, before you ask, and yes, I did everything in my power to prevent it besides dragging her away from a conversation she chose to have against my, and shoots, advice. I attempted to approach the vehicle walking, unseen. (he was already struggling to hold her down and escape, I didn't want to force him to wreck by running or drawing from a distance) 

I attempted to follow while shoots called PD, but they were gone before I could get to my car. 

I provided everything police needed, except a license plate, because I didn't have the presence of mind to remember it. 

I'm telling you this because now I see how important training for extreme "impossible" circumstances is. I know what to do, but Shoots might not, and clearly I failed my friend. 

No, I'm not beating myself up over this, I know I took all reasonable action to prevent this, but it wasn't enough and I need to increase my, and those around me's, awareness and ability. 

So, what say you. 

For the record, this happened with several witnesses in central San Antonio.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I’m no lawyer, but I would be careful about what I said on the internet concerning a possible felony that I witnessed.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Police say they can't do anything unless SHE reports it. He has already forced her to tell her sister they are back together. I doubt anyone will help her. Basically, unless he gets stopped for a traffic violation, and she tells the cop what happened, she is screwed, "no crime committed"


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## SecTec21 (Jul 27, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I hope she has been rescued by the police and is safe and sound. 

With every security job I've had, I was expected to be an excellent witness. And my employers trained me how to be just that. As civilians going about our daily lives, we can develop ourselves to be better witnesses using a few simple techniques that I was taught. 

Regarding vehicles, there are six things to try and remember; license number, color of vehicle, make, model, number of occupants, and direction of travel. Don't get hung up on priority of things. This is simply the order I was taught. Write down the information as soon as you can to keep the info as you remembered it. As an aside, do what the police officers do and carry a pen and notepad with you as part of your EDC. 

Regarding suspect descriptions; start at the top of the suspect's head and work your way down to his or her shoes. Stick with a physical description and steer away from interpretations of his or her demeanor. 

Oftentimes I practice my witness skills as I go through daily life. If I see somebody make a careless move in traffic, I'll run through the six things mentioned above. Someone/suspect might catch my eye when I getting gas or at a restaurant. I'll run through a physical description. I find myself still doing this almost every day. It does keep you sharp. I hope this helps so if, heaven forbid, there is a next time you can be the best help you can be.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

That's very sad. Can you get her help? There are women's groups that can keep her away from him. I really don't know what to say, I've never experienced anything like that. It sounds like you did everything you could do.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

SecTec21 said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I hope she has been rescued by the police and is safe and sound.
> 
> With every security job I've had, I was expected to be an excellent witness. And my employers trained me how to be just that. As civilians going about our daily lives, we can develop ourselves to be better witnesses using a few simple techniques that I was taught.
> 
> ...


I also work in security. 
I provided 5 of the six you mentioned, as well as a few extra distinguishing features. Just missed the plate.

Gave both of their descriptions including full names, DOB, ethnicity, clothing top to bottom, weight, height, and current photographs.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> That's very sad. Can you get her help? There are women's groups that can keep her away from him. I really don't know what to say, I've never experienced anything like that. It sounds like you did everything you could do.


We were. She was living with us until we could get her back with her family (tomorrow)


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

If she was living with you could you report her missing in a few days. Or won't that help. Yes, maybe a women's group could help. Those chicks don't quit.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

I didn't see what you saw, and only you can make the determination.... but if he was hauling her away with force, and causing bodily injury, that's aggravated kidnapping.
Aggravated kidnapping is grounds for deadly force in Texas.
If I witnessed such actions, leather would be cleared and rounds delivered.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm sorry for your friend. I believe you did all you could do, your friend has to step up now and take care of herself and make some hard decisions.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Sad stuff. I've know a few battered woman and it's such a horrible situation to watch. Unfortunately, most of them kept going back to the abuser no matter how much help they were given. =( Hopefully, your friend finds a way to break free of this abusive relationship and better herself.


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## gambit (Sep 14, 2015)

good training for kids and adults should be taught in schools about this subject
tell youre kids and for those who are not carrying the best way to survive a kidnapping is not to try to fight a grown man the way BLACK BELTS claimed plz note if they say hit the BALLS once so ever they bought that belt they did not earn it with a bucket of blood and a river of tears!
I have a black belt in 2 arts I started off very young plus father and 6 brothers was military so hand to hand combat was a must for me due to where I lived and what not!
if a grown man who is my size and a child hits me in the NOOKS! pretty much just PI$$ed me off children who are small wont be able to get the power to do any harm plus humans are like monkeys and apes our googles go inside the body when we aggressive making the grape fruits into cherries size wise harder targets and can with stand harder hits
best bet is to get them to learn to wrap there legs around his's or her's yell bloody murder swear the works and have the face press towards the leg like its a candy bar bite if you can.
why you might ask?
because chances once taken they not going to live better the odds of living but not fighting but getting attention drawn to them this will make the them panic alittle or a lot. at that point they might just harm them or try to leave asap this wont let them live 100% but get better odds at living threw it.
and love of god if a instructor have you do 6 moves to 1 punch or forget to say some reason when being choked to press you're chin to you're chest to help move the wind pipe alittle to help breath or grappling on the ground in a street fight so his buddy can drop a atomic elbow from the ropes * had to make fun of wrestling* you're head you wasting money and time.. that's my 2 cents
I can go on and on I need to stop with going to deep in details


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Evidently this woman made a poor voluntary decision to get into a confined space with her abuser. Once he got control (easily) it was all over. Too many women want to make excuses for clowns like this and delude themselves to thinking that they are immune.from abuse. Slippy is right. She has to want to break away completely and immediately from this dirt bag.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

gambit said:


> good training for kids and adults should be taught in schools about this subject
> tell youre kids and for those who are not carrying the best way to survive a kidnapping is not to try to fight a grown man the way BLACK BELTS claimed plz note if they say hit the BALLS once so ever they bought that belt they did not earn it with a bucket of blood and a river of tears!
> I have a black belt in 2 arts I started off very young plus father and 6 brothers was military so hand to hand combat was a must for me due to where I lived and what not!
> if a grown man who is my size and a child hits me in the NOOKS! pretty much just PI$$ed me off children who are small wont be able to get the power to do any harm plus humans are like monkeys and apes our googles go inside the body when we aggressive making the grape fruits into cherries size wise harder targets and can with stand harder hits
> ...


No, please go on my good friend gambit. I had a headache but its going away now...:Confuse:


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> I didn't see what you saw, and only you can make the determination.... but if he was hauling her away with force, and causing bodily injury, that's aggravated kidnapping.
> Aggravated kidnapping is grounds for deadly force in Texas.
> If I witnessed such actions, leather would be cleared and rounds delivered.


no, you wouldn't have. Not that you wouldn't have wanted to, but you couldn't see either occupant clearly after he threw her in the passenger seat, you would have seed how erratic he was attempting to drive and the bystanders in the way. All of this would have added up to leaving it in the holster.

However if I had been able to reach the truck, I would have called the morgue, not the cops.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

brick through the windshield maybe?
what could you have done?  besides get the plate  maybe reported a suspected drunk driver? then let the police sort it out later?
there are a 1000 things a person could have done but that is why they say hindsight is 20-20
you were there so only you know all the circumstances.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Yea, unfortunately. The police are looking for them, and with any luck, it will be sorted in the next half hour. He contacted us through her sister. Cross fingers for resolution. 

I wanted to concentrate mostly on ways to prevent/escape a kidnapping. Do y'all think about this? I have had contingencies for being taken myself for years, but haven't discussed them with shoots very much, except escaping restraints. This brought home the need for us quite clearly.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Good info..
For those saying, ah, never happen to me....
What about mistaken identity?
Train for "off the wall" scenarios. 
How many of you regularly shoot laying on your back?


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Final update on this scenario. 
He got away with it. He pumped her full of drugs and despite our best efforts, she wouldn't accept help. She didn't want him to get in trouble. 
Oh well, we tried.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> no, you wouldn't have. Not that you wouldn't have wanted to, but you couldn't see either occupant clearly after he threw her in the passenger seat, you would have seed how erratic he was attempting to drive and the bystanders in the way. All of this would have added up to leaving it in the holster.
> 
> However if I had been able to reach the truck, I would have called the morgue, not the cops.


Sir, what I described and what you described are apparently two different things. As I said, if I witnessed what *I* described, he never would have made it to the truck.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> Sir, what I described and what you described are apparently two different things. As I said, if I witnessed what *I* described, he never would have made it to the truck.


Ah, I see, I was thinking "hauling away" in the truck. If he wasn't in a vehicle and was dragging her off on foot then yea, he would be dead and I would be wondering when my gun would be released from evidence.

Sorry, I misunderstood, but I'm glad we are now on the same page.

Also, sad note, and failure of the Texas legal system, it would only have ever been classified as unlawful restraint, which is only a misdemeanor. I could have possibly gotten it swayed as aggravated kidnapping if I'd shot him, since he wouldn't have a side of the story, and she wouldn't have been afraid of him anymore. 
PENAL CODE CHAPTER 20. KIDNAPPING, UNLAWFUL RESTRAINT, ANDSMUGGLING OF PERSONS


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## gambit (Sep 14, 2015)

do you have a update on happening her yet?


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

You did all you could Jak. She now needs to step up herself. She has to help herself before you can help her. She needs to dump this piece of shit in the trash.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> Ah, I see, I was thinking "hauling away" in the truck. If he wasn't in a vehicle and was dragging her off on foot then yea, he would be dead and I would be wondering when my gun would be released from evidence.
> 
> Sorry, I misunderstood, but I'm glad we are now on the same page.
> 
> ...


I'm familiar with the penal code's language on the subject, which is why I included the "causing bodily injury" part.
If he did anything to cause her harm, it becomes aggravated kidnapping, per 20.04(a)(4).
Based on your mention of "he was struggling to hold her down", it could easily qualify.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

Ugly scene, i hope it is resolved. Was your friend trained in any sort of E&E? I ask because i wonder how ppl react, being taken by someone they know, versus a stranger... i think that kidnapping of an individual by somebody they know, is more common than being taken by a stranger, the situation is the same, but ppl react much diferantly to it, in that they are less likely to act desicevly in the first few moments, and are more prone to trying to talk it out...


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> I'm familiar with the penal code's language on the subject, which is why I included the "causing bodily injury" part.
> If he did anything to cause her harm, it becomes aggravated kidnapping, per 20.04(a)(4).
> Based on your mention of "he was struggling to hold her down", it could easily qualify.


No, I agree with you, and argued the point briefly with the cop. He said it's just unlawful restraint until he crossed state lines. SMH


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

jim-henscheli said:


> Ugly scene, i hope it is resolved. Was your friend trained in any sort of E&E? I ask because i wonder how ppl react, being taken by someone they know, versus a stranger... i think that kidnapping of an individual by somebody they know, is more common than being taken by a stranger, the situation is the same, but ppl react much diferantly to it, in that they are less likely to act desicevly in the first few moments, and are more prone to trying to talk it out...


No training.


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## jim-henscheli (May 4, 2015)

Thats a shame, I agree with everyone that you did all YOU could do, and I think this brings up a good point, we all carry and practice tactical manuvres(?), room clearing, speed shooting, yadayada. I personally have overlooked ESCAPE and evasion, and it has cost me before, albeit not a full. Lown kiddnapping. I think E&E for woman, not being sexist, is greatly over looked. While there are physical differances, duh, I think that woman are just more likely to be picked on for a variety of reasons. So thats what I think.


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