# Perimeter protection



## Robie

I don't know if this has been shown before.

I thought it looked like a pretty decent product with an inexpensive price.

If there was a time you wanted to set up a warning for people or animals coming into an area....makes sense.


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## Camel923

I believe the above to be effective but warning of severe legal liability. I would confine use in a severe SHTF fan situation.


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## Illini Warrior

manufacture varies >>>> alllllllll kinds of complaints about faulty and total crap ...

in addition >>>> VERY illegal in a majority of the country - if it CAN fire a shell/cartridge - it's a weapon ....

look into kids toy pistol snap caps or packs of small fireworks - DIY and gives you the same results without the liability ....


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## dwight55

Every time I see one of these I recall the time a lard butt major in his starched and pressed fatigues came out looking for the company commander, . . . 

We had one of these stretched at about jeep rear bumper height, . . . 

Dufus would not get out of jeep and walk 35 yds up the slope to talk to us, . . . nahh, . . . drove up like he was Ike or something.

The old man wasn't there at the time and one of my sgts just gave him the bum's rush song and dance, . . . 

He wasn't happy with his reception, . . . grumbled a few inaudible complaints or something, . . . ground a gear or two putting in reverse, . . . 

Backed straight into the wire, . . . BOOM, . . . his eyeballs looked like Ocasio Cortez, . . . hit the gas and never came back. :vs_laugh:

May God bless,
Dwight


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## rice paddy daddy

Illegal in Florida.
If you were to do something like this, and a person got injured, even if he was trespassing, you would be heavily charged.

At least one test case that I know of a man in Miami rigged a shotgun with a trip wire because his warehouse kept getting broken into. Burglar got shot, owner tried and convicted.
And from what I just googled, Florida's stand your ground law, and castle doctrine there is no provision for using deadly force to protect property. You have to be in fear for your life or severe bodily injury to use deadly force in Florida.


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## Robie

I understand the concern for legality.

But....if the blanks or other non-lethal shells are used...no one is going to die.

If I decided a situation has presented itself where I wanted to be notified of someone or something breaching a perimeter, chances are I'm not going to concern myself over loading a noise-making blank charge.

I would not be using it because the neighbors dog occasionally comes into my yard. I would not be using it at a crowded state park camping area to warn me of drunken people stumbling into my campsite.

If I was "bugging out" and staying the night somewhere in stealth mode, I probably would make use of it as...at that point I'm not real concerned about legality....again, by loading blanks for noise.

The one I posted the video of gets pretty good reviews. And, like any other piece of equipment...if taken care of....should perform when needed. Plus, it's pretty inexpensive.


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## The Tourist

rice paddy daddy said:


> Illegal in Florida. If you were to do something like this, and a person got injured, even if he was trespassing, you would be heavily charged.


It's the same in Wisconsin. I remember my dad informing me of this and "trap guns" when I was a boy. Of course, now I live near the Madison area, and criminals can sue you for a cross-eyed stare. I should have moved to that Bo Gritz commune while it still existed.


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## Illini Warrior

The Tourist said:


> It's the same in Wisconsin. I remember my dad informing me of this and "trap guns" when I was a boy. Of course, now I live near the Madison area, and criminals can sue you for a cross-eyed stare. I should have moved to that Bo Gritz commune while it still existed.


booby traps - that means everything from a rigged gun to hanging fish hooks - are illegal >>> don't even need to hurt someone - they are considered terrorist weapons & tools ....

even in a WROL situation I wouldn't be setting deadly booby traps nilly willy - you kill someone's kid cutting across country to town - if the kid's relatives don't come for revenge - you'll be answering when the law & courts come back ....

alarms - yes ....


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## stevekozak

rice paddy daddy said:


> Illegal in Florida.
> If you were to do something like this, and a person got injured, even if he was trespassing, you would be heavily charged.
> 
> At least one test case that I know of a man in Miami rigged a shotgun with a trip wire because his warehouse kept getting broken into. Burglar got shot, owner tried and convicted.
> And from what I just googled, Florida's stand your ground law, and castle doctrine there is no provision for using deadly force to protect property. You have to be in fear for your life or severe bodily injury to use deadly force in Florida.


Florida sounds like it really sucks donkeyballs.


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## stevekozak

Illini Warrior said:


> booby traps - that means everything from a rigged gun to hanging fish hooks - are illegal >>> don't even need to hurt someone - they are considered terrorist weapons & tools ....
> 
> even in a WROL situation I wouldn't be setting deadly booby traps nilly willy - you kill someone's kid cutting across country to town - if the kid's relatives don't come for revenge - you'll be answering when the law & courts come back ....
> 
> alarms - yes ....


Stay off my lawn, no matter who you are!! :vs_smirk:


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## Slippy

Very interesting device but I agree about the liability...However in a true SHTF situation I'd look into it.

As of right now, part of my perimeter defense centers around a gaggle of illegals strategically spread out in intervals around choke points on my property. 
I keep them well fed with Chimichanga's and other Meskin delicasies but I suspect they horde some and send it back to Old Mejico when I'm not looking. Oil Well as they say in Texas! :vs_lol:


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## Chipper

Like the primer model which just makes noise. Wouldn't have to worry about injuring anything. 

Should have a 9mm version. Would be very easy to load up some 9mm cases. With just powder no projectile to make a little more noise then a primer. Smaller easier to set and carry then using 12ga shells.


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## Smitty901

It would like land you in jail. Even if it did not cause injury all a person even a trespasser has to to do is say they were hurt by it. Post SHTF 6.5 Creedmoore delivered by RPR. Rules won't madder anymore.


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## rice paddy daddy

stevekozak said:


> Florida sounds like it really sucks donkeyballs.


Quite the contrary when it comes to firearms or weapons.
First in the nation to pass Must Issue concealed licenses, 1987. If you pass the background check, they must issue the license.
First in nation to pass No Duty To Retreat (called Stand Your Ground by liberals).
State law does not allow towns, cities, or counties to make their own weapon laws.
Fully automatic weapons legal.
The only illegal knives are ballistic knives (launch blade from handle into target), if I want to wear a machete into town or carry a sword cane it is perfectly legal. 
Firearms can be carried in your vehicle within reach and fully loaded without any permit.
You can have a firearm in your vehicle on your employers property, regardless of company regulations, your employer may not search your vehicle, nor even ASK to search it

Florida - The Gunshine State


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## The Tourist

Looks like I have to move to Florida. My brother lives there already. Does Florida welcome my state CCW license?


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## Robie

> It would like land you in jail.


My pocket knife would land me in jail in DE...if they needed an excuse.


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## The Tourist

The one issue I have with the talk of arrests and confiscation is all my gray hair. I don't even get pulled over anymore.

To that, every Sheriff's Deputy in Dane knows I sell knives, and they buy switchblades from me. Now the sales have been slow to non-existent since former Governor Scott Walker made switchblade knives legal. It begs to see how our new libtard governor sits with that. It is my understanding that one governor cannot repeal a state law with a simple signature.

Then again, my wife knows this guy. Evidently he came from the school system, and appears to have graduated with most of his senior year uncompleted.


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## Smitty901

The Tourist said:


> Looks like I have to move to Florida. My brother lives there already. Does Florida welcome my state CCW license?


No FL rejects WI CC.


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## Slippy

Its time we vote state legislators in who support Constitutional Carry. 

I am sick of having to pay a bribe in order to exercise my rights.


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## rice paddy daddy

Smitty901 said:


> No FL rejects WI CC.


Florida only recognizes licenses from states that recognize Florida. Known as reciprocity.
There are 36 that do, so we recognize theirs.
Wisconsin is not one.
Don't blame Florida, blame Wisconsin.


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## Smitty901

Slippy said:


> Its time we vote state legislators in who support Constitutional Carry.
> 
> I am sick of having to pay a bribe in order to exercise my rights.


 No argument from me. In Wisconsin open carry is allowed under state constitution. However some DA's still try to hang you for it. They lose but, don't care taxpayer money. The next few years we will be lucky to hang on to any firearms rights.
The storm is coming. The plan by DNC is to use taxes to price us out of them.


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## Smitty901

rice paddy daddy said:


> Florida only recognizes licenses from states that recognize Florida. Known as reciprocity.
> There are 36 that do, so we recognize theirs.
> Wisconsin is not one.
> Don't blame Florida, blame Wisconsin.


 No sir it was FL that refuse WI. They did not like our easy to get permit.


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## The Tourist

rice paddy daddy said:


> Don't blame Florida, blame Wisconsin.


It comes as a surprise to me. CCW was the work of Scott Walker, he even gave us back switchblade knives. It would seem that reciprocity would be part of his wheel-house.


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## rice paddy daddy

Smitty901 said:


> No sir it was FL that refuse WI. They did not like our easy to get permit.


Smitty, that does not even make sense. "Easy to get"? It can't get much easier than Florida -- pass the background check, pay the fee.
You DO have to demonstrate competency with a firearm by providing documentation you completed one of the listed firearms safety courses.
For veterans, a copy of your DD-214 meets the standard.
Are you against requiring a basic 30 minute course in firearms safety?

https://www.freshfromflorida.com/Consumer-Resources/Concealed-Weapon-License/


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## Smitty901

rice paddy daddy said:


> Smitty, that does not even make sense. "Easy to get"? It can't get much easier than Florida -- pass the background check, pay the fee.
> You DO have to demonstrate competency with a firearm by providing documentation you completed one of the listed firearms safety courses.
> For veterans, a copy of your DD-214 meets the standard.
> Are you against requiring a basic 30 minute course in firearms safety?
> 
> https://www.freshfromflorida.com/Consumer-Resources/Concealed-Weapon-License/


 Not for or against it I think all states should honor other states. Crazy FL and WI can't work it out. Then you have States like MN that will never honor WI CC. But we honor theirs. I would like to know what the issue really is with Fl and WI. My research has not turned up a real reason, there is always more to the story . One of the reasons on our rides I never return to FL


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## rice paddy daddy

Smitty901 said:


> Not for or against it I think all states should honor other states. Crazy FL and WI can't work it out. Then you have States like MN that will never honor WI CC. But we honor theirs. I would like to know what the issue really is with Fl and WI. My research has not turned up a real reason, there is always more to the story . One of the reasons on our rides I never return to FL


Every state should honor each others firearms license, just like drivers license or marriage license.
If the Republicans had any balls they would have made national reciprocity the law when the held the House and Senate and the White House.
If gay marriage is legal in all 50, why not my right to carry?

When our 5th Infantry reunion was in Kansas City, I went out of my way to go around Illinois driving there, and back.


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## stevekozak

rice paddy daddy said:


> Smitty, that does not even make sense. "Easy to get"? It can't get much easier than Florida -- pass the background check, pay the fee.
> You DO have to demonstrate competency with a firearm by providing documentation you completed one of the listed firearms safety courses.
> For veterans, a copy of your DD-214 meets the standard.
> Are you against requiring a basic 30 minute course in firearms safety?
> 
> https://www.freshfromflorida.com/Consumer-Resources/Concealed-Weapon-License/


That sounds like an increment...


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## Smitty901

rice paddy daddy said:


> Every state should honor each others firearms license, just like drivers license or marriage license.
> If the Republicans had any balls they would have made national reciprocity the law when the held the House and Senate and the White House.
> If gay marriage is legal in all 50, why not my right to carry?
> 
> When our 5th Infantry reunion was in Kansas City, I went out of my way to go around Illinois driving there, and back.


 I CC in IL 100% with in the law. But I know already that someday I will run in to LE trying to play a game. IL has a strange law in the way it applies to out of state not licensed in IL. It is the only one of it's kind.


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## Jayhawker

I think stocking up on a number of those devices could be a good prep, as long as you aren't setting them before SHTF. As long as you arm them with blanks it would be hard to get any kind of charge even if LE is still functioning during SHTF. Be careful if trying to use them in a concealed camp on land you don't own though. One deer walks in the wrong spot and your location is given away with anyone in the vicinity with ill intent running towards you. The legal definition of boobytrap is any device set up with the intention of harming or killing anyone who triggers it. https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Boobytrap If you arm it with blanks then a court would have a very hard time convicting you.

If times are bad enough to call for boobytraps, it may be better opsec to go with snare traps or bear traps. Beyond the hollering of whoever may be caught in them, they don't produce as much noise so they wouldn't alert everyone within a mile's radius that something is going on wherever you are. But once again, boobytraps are illegal so setting them at all before total breakdown of law and order could easily end you up in jail. And what someone said above about harming an innocent kid trying to get from point a to point b is a good point. Harming the innocent is a great way to get violent reprisal in a situation of near or complete anarchy. The best perimeter control in SHTF would likely be the same methods used by pioneers - you would need to sleep in shifts to allow for live night watches and regular perimeter patrols. We're a social species and without a group your survival chances go way down. You need at least one other person to trade off security duties with at the bare minimum.

Every time I hear about the gun laws in other states I thank my lucky stars I'm in KS. Constitutional carry is a very nice thing to have.


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## The Tourist

rice paddy daddy said:


> Are you against requiring a basic 30 minute course in firearms safety?


I also took the Wisconsin firearms safety course as a prerequisite for my CCW permit. My class took the full five hours and test firing a target with 30 rounds.


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## Illini Warrior

Smitty901 said:


> I CC in IL 100% with in the law. But I know already that someday I will run in to LE trying to play a game. IL has a strange law in the way it applies to out of state not licensed in IL. It is the only one of it's kind.


the "old" IL Congress couldn't sqeeze thru any kind of reciprocal clause in the CCW law - couldn't even breech the subject when the CCW was forced on them by SCOTUS >>>> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO way in hell will this Congress or the near future Congress assemblies allow the subject out of committee ...

the IL State Police, good majority of the county police and selective locals have their own solution to the problem - they blame the IL Congress and follow the SCOTUS ruling that created the IL CCW law ...


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## The Tourist

As a Wisconsinite, I do not go to Illinois. There's no football in the entire state.

I did break the law in Illinois--as a child, I'm sorry to say. It brought me nothing but misery--and motorcycles and redheads, but I digress. I was guilty of smuggling, and I'd guess I was about ten years old. It was my dad and mom that operated as Fagins.

Wisconsin, being the dairy state, would not allow yellow oleo sold within the state. They had plenty of white oleo for sale, but the local housewives wouldn't use it. My dad always had big Plymouths with large Mopar engines, and it was with these vehicles (and his clueless son) out-maneuvered the Illinois State Patrol like some crazed rum-runner.

On the weekends, he would go visit the houses of neighbors and take orders. I knew my part when I saw my dad toss a large, striped Indian blanket into the rear seat. And off we would go to the Land of Lincoln. Like I said, there's no football in that state, and Lincoln was born in Hodgenville, KY.

One by one the cases of contraband were loaded into the Plymouth, and with his job safely done, he threw the blanket over the oleo, and set me on it. If pulled over, I was to look innocent, and act like I was on a booster seat.

Those days are over, and I'm retired. But every time I go to the grocery store and see yellow oleo, for some reason I want to steal it...


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## bigwheel

That white oleo marjoram thing was way before my time...but my Mama spoke of it as being prevalent back during the Big War. Seems like she said the Texas variant came accomanied by a pack of food coloring to be added to turn it yellow if desired. Too bad you and pops couldnt have smuggled that stuff...would not be near as bulky as toting the already colored version.


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## The Tourist

That pack of food coloring was actually red, it turned yellow when blended. I spent a nice morning with my dad, and I developed a taste for big V-8 engines.


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## Smitty901

Illini Warrior said:


> the "old" IL Congress couldn't sqeeze thru any kind of reciprocal clause in the CCW law - couldn't even breech the subject when the CCW was forced on them by SCOTUS >>>> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO way in hell will this Congress or the near future Congress assemblies allow the subject out of committee ...
> 
> the IL State Police, good majority of the county police and selective locals have their own solution to the problem - they blame the IL Congress and follow the SCOTUS ruling that created the IL CCW law ...


 Not the same subject. Research out of state CC holders traveling through IL. With their CC. It is like no other. It is scary as once you read it you can see some local DA or LEO applying their own ideas to it.


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## Elvis

Back to the original topic. 

The problem with perimeter alarms is false alerts. We have some motion detectors that work up to about 250 yds away from the base station. The deer, coyotes, and hogs set them off so often we pulled them and put them in storage. We learned that setting them about 4 feet off the ground reduced the false alarms since the hogs and yotes just walked under the beam. 

Yes, we do have the ability to keep them running long term if the grid goes down.

As for the shotgun shell alarm the bang of it going off will probably scare off and intruders thinking they are being shot at.


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## The Tourist

Elvis said:


> As for the shotgun shell alarm the bang of it going off will probably scare off and intruders thinking they are being shot at.


I didn't like the premise of the shotgun sound. What if it wasn't an intruder, but a little old lady, lost, and searching for the bus stop? Or what if it was me, drawing a legal CCW pistol and confronting the only guy in sight?

Too many possible mistakes, and lots of other perimeter devices.


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## Illini Warrior

Smitty901 said:


> Not the same subject. Research out of state CC holders traveling through IL. With their CC. It is like no other. It is scary as once you read it you can see some local DA or LEO applying their own ideas to it.


???? - What?

if I can read the childish BS script correctly - please show where all this arresting is going on? - I live in the state and don't see all this supposed police activity - where are you getting your blow it out your azz info?

and please don't be the usual dumb azzhole and start quoting 20 yr old NRA bull about Chicago and "their gun laws" ....

or some greasy dirty scum bum traveling thru with Cartel state plates and looking like you have a 1/2 ton of dope - nooooo matter how much you complain - they didn't stop Poncho for guns - there's just a little bit of a drug smuggling problem ongoing >>>> always luv that excuse ....


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## Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior said:


> ???? - What?
> 
> if I can read the childish BS script correctly - please show where all this arresting is going on? - I live in the state and don't see all this supposed police activity - where are you getting your blow it out your azz info?
> 
> and please don't be the usual dumb azzhole and start quoting 20 yr old NRA bull about Chicago and "their gun laws" ....
> 
> or some greasy dirty scum bum traveling thru with Cartel state plates and looking like you have a 1/2 ton of dope - nooooo matter how much you complain - they didn't stop Poncho for guns - there's just a little bit of a drug smuggling problem ongoing >>>> always luv that excuse ....


still waiting Smitty - you can you open up that mouth of yours to troll - Where's that proof????


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## Illini Warrior

The Tourist said:


> As a Wisconsinite, I do not go to Illinois. There's no football in the entire state.
> 
> I did break the law in Illinois--as a child, I'm sorry to say. It brought me nothing but misery--and motorcycles and redheads, but I digress. I was guilty of smuggling, and I'd guess I was about ten years old. It was my dad and mom that operated as Fagins.
> 
> Wisconsin, being the dairy state, would not allow yellow oleo sold within the state. They had plenty of white oleo for sale, but the local housewives wouldn't use it. My dad always had big Plymouths with large Mopar engines, and it was with these vehicles (and his clueless son) out-maneuvered the Illinois State Patrol like some crazed rum-runner.
> 
> On the weekends, he would go visit the houses of neighbors and take orders. I knew my part when I saw my dad toss a large, striped Indian blanket into the rear seat. And off we would go to the Land of Lincoln. Like I said, there's no football in that state, and Lincoln was born in Hodgenville, KY.
> 
> One by one the cases of contraband were loaded into the Plymouth, and with his job safely done, he threw the blanket over the oleo, and set me on it. If pulled over, I was to look innocent, and act like I was on a booster seat.
> 
> Those days are over, and I'm retired. But every time I go to the grocery store and see yellow oleo, for some reason I want to steal it...


since when Green Bay count as football? - goes for those queers at Madison State ... couldn't keep baseball and had to accept handouts - TWICE >>>> wouldn't be talking like WI is some sports state ....


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## Smitty901

Illini Warrior said:


> still waiting Smitty - you can you open up that mouth of yours to troll - Where's that proof????


 For some reason that has nothing to do with the federal law on transport of a firearm across state line, IL add an exception to CC. I can Have my CC in IL when traveling in the state. I can not go walking around with it. IL is the only state that has done this.
This is found in 430 ILCS 66/40
"HOWEVER, non-residents who have a valid CCW permit from their own state may have a concealed firearm in their car. By definition of the Act, this would include a loaded handgun in the passenger compartment of their car, but only in their car. So they can "carry concealed" in Illinois within their vehicle. When leaving the vehicle, the gun would have to either be left in the car:

in a container, and
either the container or the car itself must be locked

or, the gun would have to be unloaded and removed from the car."

No other state carves out an exception for this. I make it a point to know the law in States I ride in or may ride in. And check them often for changes.


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## rice paddy daddy

I googled Illinois gun laws.
Anyplace that require a special ID card, issued by the state police, simply to own, posses or buy not only guns but ammo sounds like a true police state.
A knife with a blade over THREE INCHES in length is considered a dangerous weapon?
Background checks for private sales?
Waiting period before you can take possession of your just purchased firearm?
A carry license needed just to carry a gun in your car?

No, my friend, you do not live in a free state.


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## Slippy

One thing for sure, my good friend @Illini Warrior LOVES his state! :tango_face_smile:


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## Smitty901

Slippy said:


> One thing for sure, my good friend @Illini Warrior LOVES his state! :tango_face_smile:


 Nothing wrong with that. I merely pointed out that IL had a different unexpected take on CC for non residents passing through the state. IT is a great exception. While I would like to see it expanded it is better than others. When IL put the law into effect . Lot of good people worked hard to get the IL CC passed. It was a hard fight.
Leo did not understand it . As in many States some LEO and DA's try to make their own laws. I wish IL would at least fix the problems they have with non-resident CC issue of permits. And of course the $300 dollar thing is nuts.
IL does not except WI CC however WI does except IL.

Will not answer all question but a good source.

https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html


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## stevekozak

Jayhawker said:


> I think stocking up on a number of those devices could be a good prep, as long as you aren't setting them before SHTF. As long as you arm them with blanks it would be hard to get any kind of charge even if LE is still functioning during SHTF. Be careful if trying to use them in a concealed camp on land you don't own though. One deer walks in the wrong spot and your location is given away with anyone in the vicinity with ill intent running towards you. The legal definition of boobytrap is any device set up with the intention of harming or killing anyone who triggers it. https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Boobytrap If you arm it with blanks then a court would have a very hard time convicting you.
> 
> If times are bad enough to call for boobytraps, it may be better opsec to go with snare traps or bear traps. Beyond the hollering of whoever may be caught in them, they don't produce as much noise so they wouldn't alert everyone within a mile's radius that something is going on wherever you are. But once again, boobytraps are illegal so setting them at all before total breakdown of law and order could easily end you up in jail. And what someone said above about harming an innocent kid trying to get from point a to point b is a good point. Harming *the innocent* is a great way to get violent reprisal in a situation of near or complete anarchy. The best perimeter control in SHTF would likely be the same methods used by pioneers - you would need to sleep in shifts to allow for live night watches and regular perimeter patrols. We're a social species and without a group your survival chances go way down. You need at least one other person to trade off security duties with at the bare minimum.
> 
> Every time I hear about the gun laws in other states I thank my lucky stars I'm in KS. Constitutional carry is a very nice thing to have.


Innocent of what?


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## Robie

I've changed my mind.

I'm just going to use clanking beer bottles and fishing line.

That way, if the SHTF, all I have to worry about is the EPA arresting me for discarded beer bottles.

I wouldn't want to offend, scare or harm anyone sneaking around my place...possibly looking to harm me.

:devil:


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## The Tourist

Robie said:


> I wouldn't want to offend, scare or harm anyone sneaking around my place...possibly looking to harm me.


Funny you should mention that. We have all the toys (ADT, a dog, and lots of noisy things) but we also have a 'blind spot' at one corner of the house. There are no windows there, and I've thought about an infra-red camera for the nighttime hours. If hooked to a computer, you could also film the attempted attack/robbery.


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## Jayhawker

stevekozak said:


> Innocent of what?


Innocent of harmful intent.


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## Schattentarn

But can't any device be defeated? If this is about parameter security, what about dogs? I have one dog which alerts if anyone even approaches. The other dog is pretty big and bad looking so nobody really wants to mess with either and the larger dog gives the smaller alert dog all the confidence in the world.

The problem in a SHTF world would be feeding the dogs.


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## Maine-Marine

best alert would be one heard or seen by you but not by the people trying to sneak up on you

if you are alerted so are they. Difference is chances are they are awake and aware... you might just be waking up


look at driveway alert systems, or some other system that trips when beam is broken or weight applied, or gate is opened


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## Prepared One

rice paddy daddy said:


> I googled Illinois gun laws.
> Anyplace that require a special ID card, issued by the state police, simply to own, posses or buy not only guns but ammo sounds like a true police state.
> A knife with a blade over THREE INCHES in length is considered a dangerous weapon?
> Background checks for private sales?
> Waiting period before you can take possession of your just purchased firearm?
> A carry license needed just to carry a gun in your car?
> 
> No, my friend, you do not live in a free state.


Yeah, it's a police state, but Illinois has one of the safest cities in the world in Chicago. That is, if you ignore those 60 or so shootings per week. :tango_face_grin:


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## The Tourist

Prepared One said:


> That is, if you ignore those 60 or so shootings per week. :tango_face_grin:


Well, to quote Harry Callahan, "_There's nothing wrong with a shooting as long as the right people get shot_."

Personally I think Gaston Glock ought to make the 9mm Glock even simpler to operate, then even more bangers can kill each other for absolutely no reason...


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## paraquack

I prefer a large prickly pair cactus.


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## Prepared One

The Tourist said:


> Well, to quote Harry Callahan, "_There's nothing wrong with a shooting as long as the right people get shot_."
> 
> Personally I think Gaston Glock ought to make the 9mm Glock even simpler to operate, then even more bangers can kill each other for absolutely no reason...


Yeah, don't much care if the bangers shoot themselves, point is, in a police state, with some of the strictest gun laws in the country, the criminals are still armed better then the law abiding citizens. It's illogical to vote for someone who would deny you your right to self defense, and yet, they vote for them time and again.

Then again, we all know getting the guns is not about stopping the killings or even a citizen's right to protect themselves. It's control and power. In order for the socialist left to maintain control and power, they have to have the guns. Plain and simple.


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## The Tourist

Prepared One said:


> It's control and power. In order for the socialist left to maintain control and power, they have to have the guns. Plain and simple.


I agree, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Your comment was to-the-point accurate!

I'll add one opinion, why doesn't this rigorous gun-grabbing syndicate take their lily white behinds into the ghetto and gather up the really illegal firearms? Are they just scared, or are they really scared someone is going to out them as "racist"?


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## Prepared One

The Tourist said:


> I agree, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Your comment was to-the-point accurate!
> 
> I'll add one opinion, why doesn't this rigorous gun-grabbing syndicate take their lily white behinds into the ghetto and gather up the really illegal firearms? Are they just scared, or are they really scared someone is going to out them as "racist"?


I think they have already been outed as racists and they don't have to get the "really" illegal guns until they have gotten ours. Yeah, their scared. They are more scared of us then the gangsters in the hood. And well they should be.


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## The Tourist

Prepared One said:


> I think they have already been outed as racists and they don't have to get the "really" illegal guns until they have gotten ours. Yeah, their scared. They are more scared of us then the gangsters in the hood. And well they should be.


Boy, that's a really bad mistake in tactics! Most of the "civilian guns" you might find in the 'burbs are owned by people who vote and want society to be at peace. And while I dare you to find anything in my home _that isn't a weapon_, I still vote, pay taxes and (ahem) any police intersession I experienced was in my misspent youth only.

If these voters are disenfranchised, then the civilian population isn't going to give two-shakes what happens to this greedy body politic. Oy, vey, the NRA will camp out on their lawns and make sure every one of them loses the election.

And even if that doesn't happen, who's going to support or help fund a major move for illegal firearms in the ghetto? I believe if a libtard supporter came to my home for a donation, I would simply respond, "_Well, replacing all the firearms that were illegally confiscated by you Bolsheviks is going to cost a lot of scratch, so I'm spending what little I have on your opposition. Welcome to the new unemployed_..."

So, in closing, confiscation at any level of society sets the libtards up for losses at election time, losses of contributions at the grassroots level, and finally losses of life when the bangers take matters into their own hands.

"_Molon Labe_." Spoken over 2,000 years ago, still relevant, still cogent, and sadly still accurate when facing social change warriors.


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## Prepared One

The Tourist said:


> Boy, that's a really bad mistake in tactics! Most of the "civilian guns" you might find in the 'burbs are owned by people who vote and want society to be at peace. And while I dare you to find anything in my home _that isn't a weapon_, I still vote, pay taxes and (ahem) any police intersession I experienced was in my misspent youth only.
> 
> If these voters are disenfranchised, then the civilian population isn't going to give two-shakes what happens to this greedy body politic. Oy, vey, the NRA will camp out on their lawns and make sure every one of them loses the election.
> 
> And even if that doesn't happen, who's going to support or help fund a major move for illegal firearms in the ghetto? I believe if a libtard supporter came to my home for a donation, I would simply respond, "_Well, replacing all the firearms that were illegally confiscated by you Bolsheviks is going to cost a lot of scratch, so I'm spending what little I have on your opposition. Welcome to the new unemployed_..."
> 
> So, in closing, confiscation at any level of society sets the libtards up for losses at election time, losses of contributions at the grassroots level, and finally losses of life when the bangers take matters into their own hands.
> 
> "_Molon Labe_." Spoken over 2,000 years ago, still relevant, still cogent, and sadly still accurate when facing social change warriors.


They won't confiscate, they know better then to try that tactic, at least for now. Look what's happened in New Zealand since they outlawed their semi auto's. No one is turning them in. They simply refuse to comply. They sure as hell ain't going door to door to collect them. They won't here either. They will regulate, tax, and pass laws to make it harder to own. Like our taxes, privacy, and freedom, piece by piece, little by little. The frogs won't know what hit em.


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## The Tourist

The one thing I will not do is to get so excited and panicky that I just buy something like an AR just because "the government is draconian." I've owned numerous AR-15s, and sold them all. I don't need one now, and won't need one in the unlikely condition of "societal collapse." I'll buy what I need. I wonder how many folks made a purchase of an AR or an AK ten years ago during the last panic, and now still have the rifle, unfired, and gathering dust under their beds.


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## Prepared One

The Tourist said:


> The one thing I will not do is to get so excited and panicky that I just buy something like an AR just because "the government is draconian." I've owned numerous AR-15s, and sold them all. I don't need one now, and won't need one in the unlikely condition of "societal collapse." I'll buy what I need. I wonder how many folks made a purchase of an AR or an AK ten years ago during the last panic, and now still have the rifle, unfired, and gathering dust under their beds.


I agree. I don't believe in safe queens. Mine make regular range trips. They are tools to be masted and have a purpose and place in my preparedness plan.


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## The Tourist

Prepared One said:


> I agree. I don't believe in safe queens.


I don't believe in safe queens either, I carry what I've purchased. The fly in the oatmeal on this topic is that my eye surgery took me out of pistol shooting for over a year. The eye doctor had to laser the entire bottom of my retina back into place. I'm into that second year now, and fortunately I bought the .22LR conversion kit for my Kimber .45 ACP. I'm going to have to slowly edge back into the sport.


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## Grinch2

Personally in a S.H.T.F scenario I think it's a fantastic idea, I mean really no matter the situation what is going to bring you from a sound slumber to completely ready for anything than a gunshot? I mean it brings so many surging ideas into your head and at that point you grab the shotgun and go deal with whatever dares to fight.


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## jimcosta

*Safe Outside Defensive Position Construction.*

Our U. S. Civil War Battle of Cold Harbor changed warfare around the planet. After Cold Harbor no other battles worldwide were ever fought by two apposing armies standing in lines firing at each other.

Grant and Lee raced each other to reach Cold Harbor, Va. first. It was just a bar in the middle of the wilderness by the way, so perhaps that explains the race.

Lee arrived three days first. His troops dug several parallel trenches six miles long. The novelty here was that his men placed tree trunks horizontally along the top of the front of the trenches. The logs were raised just enough for the defenders to fire under them thus protecting their heads.

Within a half hour Grant lost 6,000 troopers to slaughter attacking those positions. I think Lee lost about 1,500(?).

Our large rural group will have several guard stations and fall-back defender positions.
Our main one will be a stand up wall of RR ties with a mound of dirt placed in front of it. Six inch firing slits will be under the last RR tie. Camouflaged netting will be hanging over the slits.

Other guard stations will consist of two RR ties stacked with 4" spacers and then topped by another RR tie. They will be set back into bushes and will have camouflaged netting hanging in front of it so that guards can sit up safely while on guard duty and intruders cannot spot the positions.

An incline of dirt or plywood is behind the ties so a defender can scoot up to fire. If desired, the defender can kneel and fire over the top tie.

An 18" X 8 foot piece of plywood is placed 6 inches behind the shorter guard stations stacked RR ties. It's cavity is filled with dirt thus giving a total depth of 18 inches from the front of the RR tie to the rear of the dirt cavity. The top RR ties have an 8 foot long 2X8 board screwed to the inside of it, giving it 14 inches of wood.

Most of our positions are at slight angles from where we expect firing to come from. This angle will cause their bullets to have to penetrate more wood and dirt than if fired at a right angle. The angle has no negative effect on our guards. Out main guard position will have two of the 2 X 8s on the header tie giving it 16 inches of wood.

Note that our positions do not require trenching.

*Cost: * 
*$30* for (3) RR ties, *
$15* for net. If wrong color net is ordered simply touch up with spray paint. 
*$6* for 2X8X8 board for top tie.


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