# Financial Disaster Already Upon Us



## Preppercell

With a background in economics, maybe I take the ability to spot this stuff for granted. Though it doesn't take a Warren-Buffet-level of financial understanding to see that the global economy is in bad shape, I tried to simplify it a bit on my blog. Let me know what you think, if you agree/disagree or what you would add.

The Coming Financial Collapse [2016] | TheSurvivalist


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## A Watchman

Yep, I still have a drawer full of German marks the currency before the Euro...... totally worthless, not even to collectors.


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## Gimble

You asked for it... I agree 100% with your assessment, but I think you could be more direct on what to do. 

I see so many articles, posts, comments, etc that tout "The sky is falling" but leave you hanging. After a while, you just get really depressed because the sky IS falling and you have no answers.

Those of us here do our best to prepare, but what are you preparing for? EMP? Flood? Act of God Storm? Nuclear attack? Dollar Collapse?

I would suggest:

1. Get all of your money out of the bank. Cash in hand is worth more than Cash in the bank... after the fall, gas will be 100+/gallon and they won't take credit cards or checks.

2. Get your money out of cash (keep some for the first few days/weeks after the fall while it still has some value... 10%? hard to pin a number on this when your savings is $50k and mine is $5k... whatever you are comfortable with, assuming you'll be wrong at any amount). What this means is buy gold and silver. As the economy corrects, you'll need a store of value. 

3. Diversify your stores between Junk Silver, Silver and Gold. I would also suggest that you get your silver and gold in a "recognizable" form like American Eagles or Canadian Maple Leaves. "GoldDigger" bars marked .999 fine oz probably aren't going to get you as far as American Gold Eagles marked the same. Junk silver dimes will be the new dollar bill. 

One final note, and this one is hard to describe, but you tried and I will to. You mention that a gumball couldn't be bought for 1k riechmarks. So that starts the perspective. After the fall of the economy, 1oz of gold, currently around $1200 will sky rocket in value to $40,000+. This isn't because of some magic of gold, but because the dollar will be FALLING that fast. It takes $1200 to buy 1oz of gold now because the dollar has some value. When the value starts to go away, the amount of dollars to buy gold increases, not the value of gold.

Gold has always been worth the same amount give or take a few pennies here and there.

In 1930s you could take 20 gold coins worth $20 each and buy a ford truck. You could also take 20 $20 bills and buy a ford truck. Today you can take those same 20 gold coins and buy a new ford truck. See where you get with $400 at the dealership.

The value of your house isn't going up so much as the value of the dollar is going down.


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## A Watchman

Gimble said:


> Diversify your stores between Junk Silver, Silver and Gold. I would also suggest that you get your silver and gold in a "recognizable" form like American Eagles or Canadian Maple Leaves. "GoldDigger" bars marked .999 fine oz probably aren't going to get you as far as American Gold Eagles marked the same. Junk silver dimes will be the new dollar bill.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Gimble, I have already done as you suggest for similar reasons, however, explain in more detail your reasoning in the statements above.


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## Gimble

A Watchman said:


> Gimble, I have already done as you suggest for similar reasons, however, explain in more detail your reasoning in the statements above.


Lets say you and I want to do business. You have a pallet of chicken feed worth about $300 USD today. I have this:

2016 Republic of Kiribati Silver Coins From the Crypt 4-coin Set | Silver Coins & Other (All Other Areas South Pacifi | APMEX

Can we do business? Do you believe me when I say that is 2.23oz of silver? What if I had 4 sets (16 coins)?

How about if I show you 15 of these:

2016 Silver Kangaroo Coin for Sale | Buy 1 oz Silver Coins

or if I show you 15 of these:

2015 Silver American Eagles for sale | Silver Eagle Coin US Mint

The real problem is out in the wild.


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## A Watchman

Specifically why do you think a Silver Dollar or Canadian Maple will have more marketability than a 1oz bar specifically marked as such that you call Gold digger bars. 1 oz Silver Bars for Sale | Buy APMEX .999 fine Silver Bar

Junk silver is in my stores as well as many predict these 90% coins are the immediate short term barter. You state the new dollar? Why the value in a 90% silver product that has no markings?....... one would have to know the pre 1964 minting facts.


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## Gimble

You'd be surprised what people know when they want to eat. They learn quick.

I say the junk silver dime will be the new dollar only because of its value. 1 junk silver dime will buy you what one fiat dollar will. That's the only reason. Its recognizable.

So you are helping with my point but you dodged my question ;-) The apmex bar is a source that I know and trust... do you trust them?

What if I brought 30 of these: Buy 1/2 oz Atlantis Poured Alien Skulls Online l JM Bullion?


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## A Watchman

No I wouldn't buy such a foolish collectors items or trust it as a trade item. 

But I, like you trust Silver.com, Apmex, JM Bullion, Providence, and only buy Eagles, Maple Leaves, clean bars like I attached (only small weights) and of course junk dimes, quarters and half dollars.


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## Gimble

I haven't heard of providence... but you should notice how much silver.com and jmbullion.com look alike ;-)


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## Preppercell

> One final note, and this one is hard to describe, but you tried and I will to. You mention that a gumball couldn't be bought for 1k riechmarks. So that starts the perspective. After the fall of the economy, 1oz of gold, currently around $1200 will sky rocket in value to $40,000+. This isn't because of some magic of gold, but because the dollar will be FALLING that fast. It takes $1200 to buy 1oz of gold now because the dollar has some value. When the value starts to go away, the amount of dollars to buy gold increases, not the value of gold.
> Gold has always been worth the same amount give or take a few pennies here and there.
> 
> In 1930s you could take 20 gold coins worth $20 each and buy a ford truck. You could also take 20 $20 bills and buy a ford truck. Today you can take those same 20 gold coins and buy a new ford truck. See where you get with $400 at the dealership.


Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. I'll have to incorporate the way you explained the valuation, you did a much better job then I did. As far as gold and silver, I don't think it will hurt, but honestly I would focus more on practical trade goods. I can see batteries being worth their weight in gold, same goes for food, medical supplies, tools, etc. I think a barter system will take the place of the current economy until we can figure out a more effective method then the one in place. I'm working on a separate, more in-depth "how to" on that though, any advice on that would be awesome!

Thank you again for your input!


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## Gimble

What do you have that uses batteries? Out side of the remote controls for my TVs that aren't much of a priority and a few flash lights... most things "of interest to the masses" are rechargeable... perhaps a few car batteries, solar panel and an inverter? You could exchange time on the inverter for goods.

I always find trade in goods to be difficult. I've done it, but its basically a dollar equivalency exercise. That being said, I have some food stuffs and some bic lighters and other sundries that I'd barter with if I had to. I'm hopeful of the junk silver value


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## Prepared One

I wish I was more astute in finance. I know the basics and I am covered if the economy doesn't go to hell in a hand basket. ( 401K, savings, Cash on hand and the like. ) I have some silver and gold but not much. I have been stocking trade and barter items as well so I may get along. Getting into the stock market or buying silver and gold on my own just makes me nervous. I am always afraid I will do the wrong thing. That's why I am not a millionaire I guess. I more of a steady saver and cautious. I stay up on the markets and know whats going on but anything in depth is beyond me. Maybe because when I sit down and start to get into it in depth I am immediately bored to tears. I do know it won't continue as it has. It is a house of cards with nothing backing it up. It will eventually come crashing down. No doubt.


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## Gimble

Prepared One:

To get a background on what we are talking about regarding currency watch this 5 part series: 



 (this is #1 and then there are 4 following it). He runs goldsilver.com, but he doesn't really push buying gold or silver from him in the videos, its more about education. Mike has been around for a while.

Now that you have the background out of the way, if you're still interested in the market but don't know where to look, I'd suggest an index fund -- one that invests in the dow jones or S&P 500. You can easily follow your earnings on any news cast: when they say the dow is up, you're up... when they say the dow is down, you're down. Couldn't be more simple. Next I'd suggest you do what's called Dollar Cost Averaging. You buy the same $$ amount every month regardless of its price... some months you get 1, others you get 1.2 others you get .8... but it works its way out in the end. That's the absolute basics.

Next I'd recommend a book called: http://www.amazon.com/Will-Teach-Yo...6&sr=8-1&keywords=I+will+teach+you+to+be+rich. Ramit has an easy going style and he lays the info out in a straight forward manner.

But before you do all of that, Save up $1000 and then pay down all your debts. If you have to touch the $1000, suspend your debt paydown until you get $1000 again and start over. This comes from Dave Ramsey.

I'm not an expert, but I've done a lot of studying and research. From what I can see, the experts don't know that much either. Most 401(k)s are not performing as well as a simple index fund... and on top of that you have fees and early withdrawal penalties.


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## Maine-Marine

reminds me of NASCAR.. you know there is going to be a crash..the question is when and how many involved


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## Real Old Man

You all know that a great chinaman once made a very simple statement and it's just as true today as it was almost 70 years ago. All power stems from the barrel of a gun!

Have all the trade goods you want all the gold and silver. No way to protect it - like a government with armies - then the first bunch you decide to trade with that want your gold and to keep what they have will cap you silly azz and go on to the next rube


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## rice paddy daddy

Gee, I sure am glad I didn't buy into the gold hoopla a couple years ago and put all my available cash into gold at over $1600/ounce when "they" said it would be $3,000+ in a very short time.
Not when it's down to $1200 or lower now. 
In fact, I sold my silver coins when the silver market was the highest. It was all pure profit, too. It originally cost me only face value, back in the 50's & 60's.


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## Chipper

It's simple common sense. Do you need a degree in anything to read the writing on the wall??


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## alterego

rice paddy daddy said:


> Gee, I sure am glad I didn't buy into the gold hoopla a couple years ago and put all my available cash into gold at over $1600/ounce when "they" said it would be $3,000+ in a very short time.
> Not when it's down to $1200 or lower now.
> In fact, I sold my silver coins when the silver market was the highest. It was all pure profit, too. It originally cost me only face value, back in the 50's & 60's.


I am buying back in. I started in 2003. Sold all in 2010.
I am buying back in slow but sure.


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## A Watchman

Real Old Man said:


> You all know that a great chinaman once made a very simple statement and it's just as true today as it was almost 70 years ago. All power stems from the barrel of a gun!
> 
> Have all the trade goods you want all the gold and silver. No way to protect it - like a government with armies - then the first bunch you decide to trade with that want your gold and to keep what they have will cap you silly azz and go on to the next rube


Maybe, but you get your ass capped on a full stomach and in the comfort of your home and not on the streets. Seriously, but the same could be said for any preps you have. One should know to keep as low a profile as possible.


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## Preppercell

This is kind of a follow up to the original link but here is what I gathered/added from the conversation on here, let me know what you guys think

3 Theories On How Society Might Collapse | TheSurvivalist


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## A Watchman

If indeed a financial collapse in the US is evident, what do the economists here on the forum think are the likely options one will have relevant to a 401k and his supposed savings, that are tied to the US dollar and controlled by the powers who manipulate such things?


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## Ripon

Well I started reading this and got to the point where its claimed China's real estate bubble is 20x worse then ours. There is no citation to this, but it is stated as a fact with the question who would bail them out. Since we have no clue what china's "FED" is capable of or what their status is I can't accept the authors premise because there is no fact.

Before that line was the idea our markets are 4x over value. This was sourced to a single individual, be it a nobel economist, who stated:

_Shiller told the FT that based on his analysis of investor surveys, there is a greater fear of the market being overvalued now than there has been since the dot-com stock bubble in 2000.

The big risk to the market is that it is overvalued, saysd Shiller, who uses a price-to-earnings metric that smooths out earnings peaks and valleys over a 10-year period. That cyclically adjusted P-E ratio shows stocks have been overvalued for years.
_

Investor "surveys" really? No doubt "investor surveys" think we are over valued we've been on a bull run for 3 years. DUH

Whenever I see the sky is about to fall on a prepper forum I feel hoodwinked. We just survived a huge deflationary hit in 2008/9 and since then many have recovered. We have lots of problems, but economic collapse like 2008/9 isn't nearly as likely as a recession, worse a 10-20 year period of stagnation (like Japan) and continued prosperity at the hands of the powers that be - who like it - like it is.



Preppercell said:


> With a background in economics, maybe I take the ability to spot this stuff for granted. Though it doesn't take a Warren-Buffet-level of financial understanding to see that the global economy is in bad shape, I tried to simplify it a bit on my blog. Let me know what you think, if you agree/disagree or what you would add.
> 
> The Coming Financial Collapse [2016] | TheSurvivalist


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## Ripon

PS...by the way the author uses the catch word "hyper inflation." In preparedness land that's a big seller. Why not deflation? In fact deflation is exactly what has been happening and is just as likely to occur? I forgot its hard to sell something when you mention deflation because the dollar would be what you want in your hands.


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## Gimble

A Watchman said:


> If indeed a financial collapse in the US is evident, what do the economists here on the forum think are the likely options one will have relevant to a 401k and his supposed savings, that are tied to the US dollar and controlled by the powers who manipulate such things?


Probably not what you want to here: Honestly I'd kiss them goodbye.

Currency is a "paper myth" that we all buy into -- until we don't.


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## Ripon

If you have a small retirement account there are few low cost options for you. 

1) move your 401k into your IRA. It's not that hard especially if you are not employed by the 401k provider a little harder if you are. Impossible for some employer funded 401ks without quitting your job. If you can though,

2) cheapest solution is metal ETF funds. If we have a gradual SHTF and not an over night currency collapse these shoul out perform as metals would. At some point it would be prudent to sell, liquidate, pay the taxes and move on. 

If you have a substantial IRA or 401k you can create a self directed IRA. Mine owns 1/5th of my ranch. You can buy farm land and invest in your business thru such or even buy metals and put your hands on them. There us a huge burden. The fees run upwards of $800 a year to legal professionals and accountants just to manage it for you. I don't know of a cheaper way.


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## DadofTheFamily

Some 401K's allow you to borrow against it at a very low interest rate. You can leverage this by taking out a loan to buy metals and then paying yourself back through your 401(K). Caution: Don't do this if you are not willing to assume some risk in pricing while holding precious metals.


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## Gimble

If you go the self directed IRA route, you can hold real estate with it... i.e. you can buy a 2nd home, renovate it, rent it out, sell it, etc... all with funds from the IRA. Any income on the properties must go back to the IRA, at which point you use it to buy more real estate.

This or physically holding PMs would be the safest vehicles for a post economic collapse scenario. If the IRA owns the property outright, then you have title to it and I would hope that means they can't come take it from you.


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## Montana Rancher

Preppercell said:


> With a background in economics, maybe I take the ability to spot this stuff for granted. Though it doesn't take a Warren-Buffet-level of financial understanding to see that the global economy is in bad shape, I tried to simplify it a bit on my blog. Let me know what you think, if you agree/disagree or what you would add.
> 
> The Coming Financial Collapse [2016] | TheSurvivalist


Gah
I agree along with everyone else.

Of course it is going to suck, the point is what are you doing to prevent the suckage?

The forum isn't www.itsucksreallybad.com this forum is what are you doing to prep for it?


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## Ripon

Who's this masked man? Welcome back haven't seen you post in a long while!



Montana Rancher said:


> Gah
> I agree along with everyone else.
> 
> Of course it is going to suck, the point is what are you doing to prevent the suckage?
> 
> The forum isn't www.itsucksreallybad.com this forum is what are you doing to prep for it?


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## alterego

I am in construction. It has slowed substantial.
My neighbor is an engineer for a third party vendor to the automakers. His work is scarring him slow.

I know two young guys who were working in tool and die at two different companies both have been laid off in the last month.

It's scary slow in the economy right now.


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## Gimble

I see lots of help wanted signs all over my little area and I know from the looks of places around here I could make a decent living as a handyman.


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## A Watchman

Oil field in East Texas is in a major slump.


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## Preppercell

Ripon said:


> Well I started reading this and got to the point where its claimed China's real estate bubble is 20x worse then ours. There is no citation to this, but it is stated as a fact with the question who would bail them out. Since we have no clue what china's "FED" is capable of or what their status is I can't accept the authors premise because there is no fact.
> 
> Before that line was the idea our markets are 4x over value. This was sourced to a single individual, be it a nobel economist, who stated:
> 
> _Shiller told the FT that based on his analysis of investor surveys, there is a greater fear of the market being overvalued now than there has been since the dot-com stock bubble in 2000.
> 
> The big risk to the market is that it is overvalued, saysd Shiller, who uses a price-to-earnings metric that smooths out earnings peaks and valleys over a 10-year period. That cyclically adjusted P-E ratio shows stocks have been overvalued for years.
> _
> 
> Investor "surveys" really? No doubt "investor surveys" think we are over valued we've been on a bull run for 3 years. DUH
> 
> Whenever I see the sky is about to fall on a prepper forum I feel hoodwinked. We just survived a huge deflationary hit in 2008/9 and since then many have recovered. We have lots of problems, but economic collapse like 2008/9 isn't nearly as likely as a recession, worse a 10-20 year period of stagnation (like Japan) and continued prosperity at the hands of the powers that be - who like it - like it is.


Thank you for pointing out the lack of citation for that, you're right I did leave that out. See the following









That's a chart of China's housing market valuations from a Forbes Contributor from back in April, our hosing bubble (the major "deflationary" event back in Oct. of '08 you mentioned) occurred at about 108% of true market value (True Market Value is a metric used by anybody who believes Warren Buffet is a smart guy...). Forgive me for rounding, the accurate number is actually closer to 15 times worse than ours.

Secondly, our current economy is not 400% of true value. it is about 130% of market value, and where you misread is that our current stock equity bubble is about 4x larger then it was last time. It's only about 1.3x over valued.

Lastly to address your followup, there is a major difference between inflation and deflation. The definition of inflation  is "a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money". Thats why it's not a "deflationary event" in such terms.

I respect your criticism and it is appreciated, please don't misconstrue this as disrespect. I am just pointing out where you misunderstood the article so that others can understand it and I will take it into consideration when writing in the future.


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## Preppercell

Montana Rancher said:


> Gah
> I agree along with everyone else.
> 
> Of course it is going to suck, the point is what are you doing to prevent the suckage?
> 
> The forum isn't www.itsucksreallybad.com this forum is what are you doing to prep for it?


Indeed, doesn't help to prepare for something if you don't know what it is you're preparing for though now does it?

PMs and Land are the best investment you can have right now. I would steer clear of owning metal through an ETF as you simply own a piece of an investment that owns some metal on paper and most of these aren't tied directly to the currency itself. They usually invest in companies that process, store, trade, or mine said metals.


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## Ripon

Very good reply. I also mean no disrespect. The first time I read that the SHTF was in the early 1990s. So it's been about 22/23 years now and it was just right around the corner, any minute, and.....boom we survive and move on. I think 08/9 was the worst my generation will see. Sure we will have some recessions and someone will tell us they sky will fall with them. Guess I'm just not buying it any more. Of course being well prepared makes it easy or easier for me not to fear it.

I fail to see how a single market crash brings is to a financial collapse? So the Chicoms have a bubble burst? The Japanese had one, we had two and yet we're all still here moving on with life?

Also, as I stated earlier we don't know what China might do in a bubble burst? They could sell gold for gold bugs tell us ALL the time how much they buy? They could print. They can cut labor rates in half, force slavery, or impose themselves on Africa and steal its resources.....LORD knows we can't stop them.



Preppercell said:


> Thank you for pointing out the lack of citation for that, you're right I did leave that out. See the following
> 
> View attachment 13420
> 
> 
> That's a chart of China's housing market valuations from a Forbes Contributor from back in April, our hosing bubble (the major "deflationary" event back in Oct. of '08 you mentioned) occurred at about 108% of true market value (True Market Value is a metric used by anybody who believes Warren Buffet is a smart guy...). Forgive me for rounding, the accurate number is actually closer to 15 times worse than ours.
> 
> Secondly, our current economy is not 400% of true value. it is about 130% of market value, and where you misread is that our current stock equity bubble is about 4x larger then it was last time. It's only about 1.3x over valued.
> 
> Lastly to address your followup, there is a major difference between inflation and deflation. The definition of inflation  is "a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money". Thats why it's not a "deflationary event" in such terms.
> 
> I respect your criticism and it is appreciated, please don't misconstrue this as disrespect. I am just pointing out where you misunderstood the article so that others can understand it and I will take it into consideration when writing in the future.


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## Preppercell

Ripon said:


> Very good reply. I also mean no disrespect. The first time I read that the SHTF was in the early 1990s. So it's been about 22/23 years now and it was just right around the corner, any minute, and.....boom we survive and move on. I think 08/9 was the worst my generation will see. Sure we will have some recessions and someone will tell us they sky will fall with them. Guess I'm just not buying it any more. Of course being well prepared makes it easy or easier for me not to fear it.
> 
> I fail to see how a single market crash brings is to a financial collapse? So the Chicoms have a bubble burst? The Japanese had one, we had two and yet we're all still here moving on with life?
> 
> Also, as I stated earlier we don't know what China might do in a bubble burst? They could sell gold for gold bugs tell us ALL the time how much they buy? They could print. They can cut labor rates in half, force slavery, or impose themselves on Africa and steal its resources.....LORD knows we can't stop them.


I'm on my phone typing this so forgive the lack of citation, I will fill it in when I get to my computer in the AM.

I can understand that, there has been a lot of soothsaying since the beginning of time, it's hard to clear the truth from the paranoia. I'm not going to try to convince you that there is a day or time it is going to suddenly happen and it may even reverse itself through an unforeseen break through or event. But I can tell you with a fair bit of certainty that we are in an extremely precarious position right now.

As for China's economic will power, they're not at all dissimilar to how we were before the '08 crisis. Their central bank has about the same tools available to them as we did, they might have learned a bit from our crisis. They were smart to buy up gold like it was going out of style. Not to mention they do have a higher interest rate then we have, allowing them to cut rates back to stimulate growth, but as we are learning the hard way, that's not a permanent solution and if they can't gain traction quickly, they will flatline.

I don't believe they have any ability to go ahead and invade a country's sovereignty unopposed, we might be on the ropes but we still have the worlds best military. However there is already a pissing match in the Middle East over resources and China is throwing in their lot.

In addition, money markets around the world are plummeting, there is not enough wealth to fuel the growth we rely on to just keep going. In the follow up I posted I go into how we are dependent on debt and growth to repay said debt. Each subsequent generation must create more debt then the last. It's not a pretty picture and if we don't break the cycle it's not a mater of if but when it will come to a catastrophic crash.


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## Kauboy

Throwing in my two cents...

I disagree with a few of the recommendations I'm seeing here.
Firstly, there is no reason to completely clear out your bank account. There is ample reason to keep hard cash on hand.
Keep some in the bank for ease of use until "the day", and keep the majority of cash on hand in a safe location for "the day after".
Split it however you feel comfortable, but I like a 25/75 split, keeping 75% on hand and ready.

DO NOT change *all* of your cash into silver/gold.
There is only ONE good reason for moving your wealth into precious metals.
That reason is, to move your wealth from one point in history to another point in history, and maintain its value as best as possible.
That reason is NOT to have a trade currency in a post-SHTF world.
Precious metals are for moving your wealth from one stable economy to another stable economy by way of a non-perishable asset with a strong history of stable value.
Precious metals are NOT for trading for common goods and services.
Why?
Simple... scams.
I can make a "silver dime" from junk metal, and you won't be able to tell the difference until long after I'm gone.
In a post-SHTF world, how will you be able to confirm the "silver" you're receiving from stranger A in your trade is actually silver?
You won't. You will be scammed. You will have pot metal in your pockets, and they'll have your real value item.

So, do not convert your real cash to precious metals for trading, as most folks won't be able to verify it, and won't accept it.

Keep cash. People know cash, people are comfortable with cash. Eventually, that cash won't be accepted either, which we all expect.
However, that won't mean that average folks will just start taking "silver" on faith.
*Something* will take over as a trade currency. I don't pretend to know what it is yet, but something will. (bottle caps? :grin
Until then, have commodities that will substitute as trade currency. I have coffee, alcohol, hot chocolate, salt, and sugar to trade. They are not life sustaining, so I'm not losing anything important, and people will do crazy things for a little coffee. I'm thinking of starting a normal cigarette purchase regime to horde away for trade too.
Items of vice will work great for trade.


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## Ripon

Kauboy made great points. I don't think he is all that right on people making silver dimes though. If you were to go to that much trouble I'd imagine you'd make a half dollar or Morgan dollar v a little dime. Also you really think you can get junk metals to weigh the exact match of a pre 64 dime and come up with a perfect mold for such a dime.....if you can do all that I don't really care because I'll put it with my good dimes and pass it along as a good dime. Id be more concerned about someone with a sunshine mint asking me to look thru a special decoder ring. 

I'm more like a 50/50 guy. I have some money in stocks though it's less then it was in May when I decided to get out of riskier stocks and parked the funds in a near worthless money market. During the last decline some stocks I trade in hit buy points, I bought, and have already enjoyed a good return. At my age I find it necessary to earn 6-8%a year to pace inflation. I can usually get half that in dividends, and with timed purchases I can get the remainder / so long as I sell and take it. 

There is nothing going on in the world, China, Greece, Middle East, nor the U.S. That causes me to think our way of life is in great risk. If it is those funds I have invested will not be missed. If life remains "as is" for twenty years they will be missed if sitting in a safe as bullion or notes.


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## Gimble

If all you are doing is keeping pace with inflation, that's what PMs do... so what is the difference? (curious)


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## Ripon

Actually metals don't pace inflation; they would likely protect your asset in a state of hyper inflation. Look at silver for 100 years and you might be shocked to see how poorly it paces inflation. I bought a lot of silver back in the early 1990's and sold some a few years ago when it crossed $40 making out very well, but now that its back to around 15 its only gone up 200% in 25 years? That doesn't even account for having to protect it.

Until very recently I have not bought gold/silver for anything but SHTF. I started some regular monthly purchases recently because I'm hoping that 10 or 15 years from now I can sell it for a small gain - cash sales - sales that aren't taxed or impact my income. I'll be one of those people where if I claim "x" dollars out of my retirement funds the tax bill will get ugly. So I'll need some cash that isn't from my retirement to enjoy hobbies and such.

And PS I don't hope to just pace inflation, my goal is to double inflation for my assets.



Gimble said:


> If all you are doing is keeping pace with inflation, that's what PMs do... so what is the difference? (curious)


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## rice paddy daddy

I put my extra money into becoming debt free, improving my property for better food production, and otherwise increasing my chances of living in an economy where cash (or gold) is of limited value.
I have nothing left to invest in any market. And as they say, if you can not afford to loose your investment, don't make it.


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