# Junk Guns - In Defense of



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Yes there are some guns out there that are considered junk, However;

If you know the limitations, for instance Hi-Point pistols hate hollow point bullets... If you stick with non-hollow points they work well.

IMHO they only time a gun is junk is when it fails when you really need it... there is much to be said for revolvers... 

SO what other Junk guns have limitations that can be worked around or with?


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I've never owned a gun that wasn't reliable but I did have a 1911 that was very finicky about which hollow points it liked. It preferred a very rounded profile like the Critical defense.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Keltec. Once you realize semi auto isn't going to happen. You can get used to the clearing jams and failure to feeds. Basically a single shot. Just my personal experience.

Hi-point really isn't that bad. Sure they are a little on the crude side and heavy. But for the price who cares.
My neighbor has one of their 9mm carbines with 1000's of rounds through it. I've never seen any problems with it and it always goes bang. Which is the most important thing. I'd bet my life with it before many others costing twice as much.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

There are some handguns I would never consider owning, let alone betting my life on.
Raven, or Jimenez, for instance.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Chipper said:


> Keltec. Once you realize semi auto isn't going to happen. You can get used to the clearing jams and failure to feeds. Basically a single shot. Just my personal experience.
> 
> Hi-point really isn't that bad. Sure they are a little on the crude side and heavy. But for the price who cares.
> My neighbor has one of their 9mm carbines with 1000's of rounds through it. I've never seen any problems with it and it always goes bang. Which is the most important thing. I'd bet my life with it before many others costing twice as much.


I have heard many KT horror stories especially on the pistols and I had a few PF-9's no issues. I have 3 KT SUB2000's, 2 SU-16c's and an E model no problems ever and a KSG shotgun I'm breaking in and no prob so far!
I like Kel-Tec, Innovative light weight weapons at generally a lower price! Not combat weapons but good enough for social work!


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Yes there are some guns out there that are considered junk, However;
> 
> If you know the limitations, for instance Hi-Point pistols hate hollow point bullets... If you stick with non-hollow points they work well.
> 
> ...


The Winchester Model 88 needs be levered aggressively, and if it is not tilted side to side; or if tilted, then only to the right (and never to the left) it will rack and eject correctly every time. It is the only flaw I know of, and it is the one that gave it a rep as a Jammer.

Now you can avail yourself of the only True Bolt, Double Lug, Hammer-less, Light Weight, Side Ejection, Box Magazine, Lever Action Made. Also quite possibly the most beautiful rifle ever made.

With that little bit of knowledge you can enjoy a supremely accurate, flawless, bolt lever action rifle, mine is in .308.


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## Joe Smith (Aug 21, 2015)

I guess I would have to ask why?

Don't you folks have a pawn shop or used gun section in your local gun shop. S&W .38 revolvers were made in huge numbers, can be found at reasonable prices, and with finish wear bring fairly low prices. At this time there are also a large number of surplus guns on sites like gunbroker. CZ, Beretta, etc. and their clones are out there.

A good 12 gauge pump, if a rifle is wanted there are huge numbers of the old bolt actions for good prices. 22lr rifles are just about given away , at least at the last gun show I was at, $75. JMHO

Oh, and please let's not lump revolvers into a "junk gun " category.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Maol9 said:


> The Winchester Model 88 needs be levered aggressively, and if it is not tilted side to side; or if tilted, then only to the right (and never to the left) it will rack and eject correctly every time. It is the only flaw I know of, and it is the one that gave it a rep as a Jammer.
> 
> Now you can avail yourself of the only True Bolt, Double Lug, Hammer-less, Light Weight, Side Ejection, Box Magazine, Lever Action Made. Also quite possibly the most beautiful rifle ever made.
> 
> With that little bit of knowledge you can enjoy a supremely accurate, flawless, bolt lever action rifle, mine is in .308.


The problem with the 88is the bolt/extractor design, this also applies to its sister the semi auto 100, exact same problem, the primary extraction rotational ratio also sucks.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I have a couple Hi Points for spares, just in case.
I also agree with SOCUM on the drug runner's gun of choice made famous by Miami Vice, the TEC-9. I used to own one ...........key words being used to.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Joe Smith said:


> I guess I would have to ask why?
> 
> Don't you folks have a pawn shop or used gun section in your local gun shop. S&W .38 revolvers were made in huge numbers, can be found at reasonable prices, and with finish wear bring fairly low prices. At this time there are also a large number of surplus guns on sites like gunbroker. CZ, Beretta, etc. and their clones are out there.
> 
> ...


I had a Taurus 85ch ultra with cylinder timing issues and the firing pin broke.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Chipper said:


> Keltec. Once you realize semi auto isn't going to happen. You can get used to the clearing jams and failure to feeds. Basically a single shot. Just my personal experience.
> 
> Hi-point really isn't that bad. Sure they are a little on the crude side and heavy. But for the price who cares.
> My neighbor has one of their 9mm carbines with 1000's of rounds through it. I've never seen any problems with it and it always goes bang. Which is the most important thing. I'd bet my life with it before many others costing twice as much.


I have heard bad things about Keltec which is I was hesitant to buy a PLR 16 from a buddy who was moving. The price was right $350.00. I figured if it was junk at that price I would get my money back. Took it to the range and it ran flawlessly. I was expecting the worst and was pleasantly surprised. Nevertheless, I will give it a good workout over the next couple of months and see how it goes before I trust it completely.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Any New S + W product, they support Hildebeast and Wille

Just *shot yourself in the foot, idiot!*


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

For the price difference of a junk gun compared to one of known quality isn't enough for me to make a compromise. 

10/22 is about the bottom of the barrel for me. Lol !


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

The last Hi-Point I tried shooting was a 9mm.

Picked it up, . . . chambered a round, . . . pulled the trigger, . . . NOTHING.

Turned it sideways to make sure I was doing what I was supposed to do, . . .

Re-aligned sights on the target, . . . pulled the trigger, . . . NOTHING.

Turned my head to the right to tell the owner (my brother in law) that it was not working, . . . 

(finger was not on trigger at this point)

BANG>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Laid it down, . . . have never picked up another.

I would, however, like to try one of their carbines, . . . have never really heard much bad news about them.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> The last Hi-Point I tried shooting was a 9mm.
> 
> Picked it up, . . . chambered a round, . . . pulled the trigger, . . . NOTHING.
> 
> ...


Probably the ammo.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

One man's junk is another man's treasure. It also applies to firearms. I see there being a difference between junk and inexpensive. Even expensive firearms can turn out to be junk and inexpensive solid. I have had this discussion with others at other times and have come to a few conclusions. 1. What can a person afford? A firearm of practically any kind is better than having none. 2. If you own a firearm or ten, you are responsible to know how they function and what helps them to function the best. 3. There can be restrictions or limitations as to what someone can own whether it is a product of laws or other life imposed limitations.
Some folks think that Taurus makes junk, but my experience with them has been that they are an affordable and serviceable option, otherwise I would not have a couple.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Operator6 said:


> For the price difference of a junk gun compared to one of known quality isn't enough for me to make a compromise.
> 
> 10/22 is about the bottom of the barrel for me. Lol !


exactly - I always advise a newbie shotgun buyer to look at moving up even $50 to a better brand/model ....

I guess "junk" has different meanings for different folks .... no idea why anyone would want something with proven inherit problems & faults - no pleasure in practicing and just suicide for anything else ...


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Prepared One said:


> I have heard bad things about Keltec which is I was hesitant to buy a PLR 16 from a buddy who was moving. The price was right $350.00. I figured if it was junk at that price I would get my money back. Took it to the range and it ran flawlessly. I was expecting the worst and was pleasantly surprised. Nevertheless, I will give it a good workout over the next couple of months and see how it goes before I trust it completely.


PLR-16 is pretty cool and pretty LOUD!


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

First handgun I bought is a Hi Point C9 9mm. Today it sits in a backpack in the trunk of my car with 147 +9 Hydra Shock. Its not the best gun out there but mine has worked well with the exception of one 10 round magazine that was sent back to the factory.

Iraqveteran8888 did a torture test video with a couple hi points and they held up pretty well, especially when you consider the abuse they put them through











I agree with what they said in the 2nd video. Its not the best gun but if its all you can afford it will protect your life. Also if you run Powr Ball ammo through it most reliability problems go away.

There are some Hi Point owners that claim their weapons are superior to more expensive ones like glocks, sigs, hi end 1911's, pretty much every pistol that cost more than a Hi Point. I'm here to tell you as an owner they are not and its foolish to claim they are. The difference in quality, ergonomics, capacity, and performance is night and day between my Smith M&P and my Hi Point not in favor of the Hi Point.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

SOCOM42:

*The problem with the 88is the bolt/extractor design, this also applies to its sister the semi auto 100, exact same problem, the primary extraction rotational ratio also sucks.*

*I have in the past spent many a pissed off hour getting them to work right.* - That is something a experienced Gun Smith would know; me obviously me not so much.

*The first was in 1966, brand new, sent back to factory twice before I got to fix it.* - SOCOM, mine is a '57' were they better or worse?

*I have a standing order with the LGS, do not take in for repair or purchase either of them with the expectation I will fix it.

It is not hammerless, has an internal hammer.* - Correction taken, again Thank you. The nieghbor's wife has a 'Hammer-less' S&W 357. That is the same, really it is just internal, correct?

With mine I have zero feed/extraction issues unless tilted sideways to the left as previously noted and as long as I lever it quickly and firmly. I love the heck out of and find it very accurate. Happy so far, but I haven't ever had to work on it.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

They are all the same, no change in the engineering, IMO.

Some worked OK, thing is most were never shot much, just a few rounds during hunting season.

The Smith 357 has an internal hammer, all their revolvers have a hammer exposed or not.

I would not rely on either model in a SHTF condition, the gas gun is worse due to gas system problems on top of bolt problems.

Neither of these or the Remington 742 are suitable for SHTF, the Rem bolt construction is just as bad, IMO.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> They are all the same, no change in the engineering, IMO.
> 
> Some worked OK, thing is most were never shot much, just a few rounds during hunting season.
> 
> ...


What is your opinion on early M29s like Dirty Hairy? I've a nickel plate 8 3/4, factory tuned/match" It flips woodchucks fine with Rem 240gr at 75 yrds


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> They are all the same, no change in the engineering, IMO.
> 
> Some worked OK, thing is most were never shot much, just a few rounds during hunting season.
> 
> ...


Thanks SOCOM I will have to keep all of that in mind re the the 88. The 88 is my Deer rifle, my hunting/fishing buddy calls it 'The Killer' and loves it as well. I let him shoot it every once in while. She sure is a pretty thing (aftermarket walnut stock without the finger cut outs on the side for the magazine), with a light crisp sweet trigger. I think I will be learning a lot about it now. It definitely isn't my STHF .308 Rifle, that role is filled by my commie pig gun...

A Slant-back VEPR with a 23' barrel. Although not as accurate as the 88, it is a semi-auto piston run and reliable as can be and it's very comfortable to shoot. I don't have it just the way I want it yet, but it is getting there.

I gave it a new trigger (very nice now), new hammer, modified the safety a bit and installed a BHO extended safety lever and extended mag release. I can now run everything from the grip. Then I gave it a adjustable M4 folder, a very comfortable pistol grip, new piston and new forearm. I also installed a rock steady rail that jumps the dust cover from the tang to the rear sight mount for center-line optics (Not a Texas Dogleg), had to remove the rear sight to do it, so it now has a flip up peep. Can't use it though without removing the 'place-holder' 4x16x40 UTG quick-detach scope.

Next on the to do list is a piston tube with a integral rail for a IR illuminator and a light. It still needs a swivel bipod and then the intended Day/Night Vision scope. I am still thinking of shortening it but with 1:13 twist it already throws 180 gr where ever, so I pretty much stick to 147-155 gr and it is fine. Though I really would like to get it a little shorter and thread it for a break or a can, I am worried about going to short and causing instability issues. Right now it is just OK with the 165gr. Of course I will end up doing a custom finish to complete it.

It is 922r compliant so I can use the 25 round American made or 10 Round Commie magazines. I am building it for Hog Hunting but it should work nicely as a STHF .308. It has been a very fun project over the last couple of years of a piece here and a piece there. Plus I learned a heck of a lot.

Since it is close to being done I am acquiring parts for a couple of 5.56 DI ARs to build.

BTW I saw one of $pringfield'$ AIA$ today and thought of you. Thanks again.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maol9 said:


> The Winchester Model 88 needs be levered aggressively, and if it is not tilted side to side; or if tilted, then only to the right (and never to the left) it will rack and eject correctly every time. It is the only flaw I know of, and it is the one that gave it a rep as a Jammer.
> 
> Now you can avail yourself of the only True Bolt, Double Lug, Hammer-less, Light Weight, Side Ejection, Box Magazine, Lever Action Made. Also quite possibly the most beautiful rifle ever made.
> 
> With that little bit of knowledge you can enjoy a supremely accurate, flawless, bolt lever action rifle, mine is in .308.


Had an old pal who had one of those guns back in the 80's in .308. He said that was the kicking biotch he ever shot. Always spoke of how much he hated it. Talked me out of wanting one.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Had an old pal who had one of those guns back in the 80's in .308. He said that was the kicking biotch he ever shot. Always spoke of how much he hated it. Talked me out of wanting one.


It's true every bit of it. LOL I shot it the first time and immediately went to Walmart and got a $20.00 Limb Saver, Then back to the range not only did it cure the shoulder punch but it made the LoP perfect for me and the love affair began.

SOCOM has made me a little suspicious of her now. I won't look at that rifle same again I think... She sure is purty tho...


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Maol9, I m not trying to throw water on your 88, Great as a deer gun, neither of the three will stand up to battle conditions.

Your alternate is a better choice by far.

If I were you I would seriously consider something in 5.56 NATO, such as an AR while they can still be had.

My preference is for a 7.62X51 NATO,However for CQB, you will need a high volume low recoil rifle in a mid range round.

I have said this before, and will say it again, the most viable rounds for SHTF are 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x39 Comblock and last but not least CAL-30M2 and 8X57.

The 5.45X39 has mostly gone the way of the dodo because of o'slimer pushing the BATFE ,

the 7.62X39 could go the same way, the bulk of the 7.62X39 imports were cut off by him, the rest could follow. 

Those who think .300BO, 270, 257 and similar rounds are going to be floating around, pick up your Darwin award after the SHTF+ 1 year.

most who have never been in combat and a few who have, have no idea the quantities of ammunition required for one op.

The guy on point or the one hunkered down on a MLR is only concerned if he has enough and who is bringing the next bandoliers or belts.

Unlike the conventional military, you will go with what you got, there will be no resupply, only battlefield pickups if you survive the firefight.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well I scored a box or two of the Hornady Lever Evo ammo for my old thurty thurty. The brochures said it would scare the heck out of a .308 performance. Sure that gun will kick the snot out of person too..if it acts like the others of the same caliber I have been exposed to in years gone by. Found out after getting suckered in you have to have a special magazine follower to make it work right. The last one out of the chute always gets hung up. So I switched back to the 150 grain Hog and Deer Texas additions. They are quite a bit cheaper than the others and seem to feed ok. Not far from .308 brochure wise either. I plan to only shoot it in emergencies.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> What is your opinion on early M29s like Dirty Hairy? I've a nickel plate 8 3/4, factory tuned/match" It flips woodchucks fine with Rem 240gr at 75 yrds


Great revolver, some of the best ever made,


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks and to the point.

I'm reloading 308 for M1A M1 and Bolts.

Then 12 ga


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Great revolver, some of the best ever made, I have basically the same one in 41 mag pinned and recessed but blued and a 629 in 44 mag.
> 
> My 41 it from the 60's and the 44 from the early 80's.
> 
> ...


Glad it's SOCOM appoved, mine has been so + 30 years, flipped many chucks. It likes 240gr rems in HP or SP. Hard to reload with those against, got a good recipie?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I don't consider Taurus and High point junk. Just not what they should be.
Junk is the R&G. if you want to define junk that is the text book case.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Hey MT how come them .41 mags never caught on? Was rumored they were sorta unique in being able to hit the same point with different bullet weights. Knew a few deputy dogs who carried them but not many. Did have an old hypo pal who tried to sub one out for his Model 28 but the Captain noticed it was too shiney and the ammo was a little fatter. He got busted on that deal..lol.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> Maol9, I m not trying to throw water on your 88, just giving you the views of 50+ years of experience of working on guns professionally.
> Great as a deer gun, neither of the three will stand up to battle conditions.
> Your alternate is a better choice by far.
> If I were you I would seriously consider something in 5.56 NATO, such as an AR while they can still be had.
> ...


*Maol9, I m not trying to throw water on your 88, just giving you the views of 50+ years of experience of working on guns professionally.* - Cast away, reality is a cold bucket sometimes.
*Great as a deer gun, neither of the three will stand up to battle conditions.* I am glad I pegged it's role correctly.
*Your alternate is a better choice by far. * - Thank you glad I made a good choice there. They were just over half the price when I bought them new (2) of a (1) used FAL and a DI AR-10 was out of the question for me at the time, especially given the state of their art in 2010. Glad I made a good call.
*If I were you I would seriously consider something in 5.56 NATO, such as an AR while they can still be had.* Already there with you as I mentioned. I have (2) stripped lowers, BCG's, etc. just waiting on the money for the uppers in 5.56.
*My preference is for a 7.62X51 NATO, of which I have plenty, M14's, FAL's, Galil's and M1's.* I am with you there. Those VEPRs are hungry and digest the ZQ1 7.62 at a prodigious rate! Even with the Commie Double Stack 10 round mags. It is 5 bucks a mag.
*However for CQB, you will need a high volume low recoil rifle in a mid range round.* - Yep get it now. I was stubborn about the 5.56 for quite awhile. and was willing to _maybe _if it was a piston run rifle. I am over that now for a 5.56. DI will be fine.
*I have said this before, and will say it again, the most viable rounds for SHTF are 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x39 Comblock and last but not least CAL-30M2 and 8X57.
The 5.45X39 has mostly gone the way of the dodo because of o'slimer pushing the BATFE ,*
*the 7.62X39 could go the same way, the bulk of the 7.62X39 imports were cut off by him, the rest could follow.
Those who think .300BO, 270, 257 and similar rounds are going to be floating around, pick up your Darwin award after the SHTF+ 1 year.* - - Yep, If I could only have one I wanted it to be 7.62 NATO/.308. Next in line is the 5.56 NATO.
*I was involved in forecasting the ammunition load company and Battalion level, most who have never been in combat and a few who have, have no idea the quantities of ammunition required for one op. The guy on point or the one hunkered down on a MLR is only concerned if he has enough and who is bringing the next bandoliers or belts.
Unlike the conventional military, you will go with what you got, there will be no resupply, only battlefield pickups if you survive the firefight - * Agreed and that has driven Rifle Caliber selection so far. Though I must confess to a weakness now for 260 Rem. I don't know what to do about it yet. I have to fill out the .308 and 5.56 slots first...


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Chipper said:


> Keltec. Once you realize semi auto isn't going to happen. You can get used to the clearing jams and failure to feeds. Basically a single shot. Just my personal experience.
> 
> Hi-point really isn't that bad. Sure they are a little on the crude side and heavy. But for the price who cares.
> My neighbor has one of their 9mm carbines with 1000's of rounds through it. I've never seen any problems with it and it always goes bang. Which is the most important thing. I'd bet my life with it before many others costing twice as much.


Guy I worked with had hands like shreek (mine at almost a 10) and he couldn't get his P3AT to work. Traded him a used PPK/s in 380 and he was happy. All of the Keltec's I've owned since 95 have gone bang every single time and loaded the next round after it.

Sometimes guns are just not made for someon'es hands.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Well I scored a box or two of the Hornady Lever Evo ammo for my old thurty thurty. The brochures said it would scare the heck out of a .308 performance. Sure that gun will kick the snot out of person too..if it acts like the others of the same caliber I have been exposed to in years gone by. Found out after getting suckered in you have to have a special magazine follower to make it work right. The last one out of the chute always gets hung up. So I switched back to the 150 grain Hog and Deer Texas additions. They are quite a bit cheaper than the others and seem to feed ok. Not far from .308 brochure wise either. I plan to only shoot it in emergencies.


Is your 30-30 a Winchester? I ask as the hornady evo lever ammo was not accurate in my Marlin 30-30. I later learned it was because my Marlin was an older model with the micro groove barreling.


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

"Worst" gun I ever owned was a Walther P22. I bought this as a trainer for the kids to teach them how to shoot, and the working of a semi-auto. I figured that if it also LOOKED similar to the other firearms they may encounter, it may up the mental comfortably level somewhat. I had always heard good things about Walther, so I bought this weapon without firing it.

Nothing but problems. Mostly failure to feed and failure to cycle. I named this firearm "PB", which stood for "Picky Bitch".

I tried every type of ammo I could find, and only two would work semi-well. In a 10 round mag, using "cheap" .22lr ammo I would get 2-3 failures per mag. Using CCI or Remington I would get only 1 fail per mag, SOMETIMES none at all. Using ANYTHING else I could find at Walmart, Dick's sporting Goods, etc resulted in jam-a-paluzza.

In the end, the performance was so bad that I traded it in at a local gun-shop for credit towards a different purchase. Too bad too. I liked the way it looked, welt, the weight, etc. I REALLY hoped it would have done better than it did.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

Several years ago I bought a Llama Comanche lll 357. After some expensive repairs,springs,hammer,trigger it turned out to be a very reliable gun. Some consider Llama junk along with Rossi,Taurus and anything made in South America or Spain. You get what you pay for. I'm keeping the Llama.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

I would only buy , ruger , browning , Springfield , Mossberg , that's what I feel safe with .


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

Egyas said:


> "Worst" gun I ever owned was a Walther P22. I bought this as a trainer for the kids to teach them how to shoot, and the working of a semi-auto. I figured that if it also LOOKED similar to the other firearms they may encounter, it may up the mental comfortably level somewhat. I had always heard good things about Walther, so I bought this weapon without firing it.
> 
> Nothing but problems. Mostly failure to feed and failure to cycle. I named this firearm "PB", which stood for "Picky Bitch".
> 
> ...


I had one that I swore was a POS until I ran about 250 rounds through it. It eats everything now.


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

Operator6 said:


> I had one that I swore was a POS until I ran about 250 rounds through it. It eats everything now.


Hummm. I was somewhere near the 300 round mark, maybe a bit less. Wondering if you got lucky, or if maybe I needed to just keep trying?


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## Grinch2 (Sep 12, 2016)

Probably one of my most hated " junk guns " is my father's Jennings 22 ( no idea on model here ) but it's a stainless little palm gun that refuses even with good 22 ammo will have plenty of problems ranging from but not limited to failure to cycle and fire, and even delayed fire. But on the more finnecky side of things is my 30-378 Weatherby, it absolutely HATES factory ammo and yes Weatherby ammo might I mind you, the type in the books with the big and scary 3 digit number behind it, but in my Weatherby's defense with my handloads I can hit a deer at 800 yards ( no head shot or off hand type of crazy crap ) but just behind the shoulder from a shooting stick. But for everyone saying revolvers are the go-to, please, we're not in 1850's here guys. I love my revolvers don't get my wrong, but when it comes time to get into a gun fight I want my Glock or my FN with me, because I have never had a single problem with either; whereas my 500's cylinder cracked before I got rid of it, I had a 357 Smith with timing issues. Mostly my problems have been with Smith & Wesson, I got one of their t shirts and that's it anymore. I absolutely hate Smith & Wesson, they are an overpriced piece of garbage to me, I'd rather have a sharpened stick I have yet to whittle over a Smith in a fire fight any day.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Grinch2 said:


> Probably one of my most hated " junk guns " is my father's Jennings 22 ( no idea on model here ) but it's a stainless little palm gun that refuses even with good 22 ammo will have plenty of problems ranging from but not limited to failure to cycle and fire, and even delayed fire. But on the more finnecky side of things is my 30-378 Weatherby, it absolutely HATES factory ammo and yes Weatherby ammo might I mind you, the type in the books with the big and scary 3 digit number behind it, but in my Weatherby's defense with my handloads I can hit a deer at 800 yards ( no head shot or off hand type of crazy crap ) but just behind the shoulder from a shooting stick. But for everyone saying revolvers are the go-to, please, we're not in 1850's here guys. I love my revolvers don't get my wrong, but when it comes time to get into a gun fight I want my Glock or my FN with me, because I have never had a single problem with either; whereas my 500's cylinder cracked before I got rid of it, I had a 357 Smith with timing issues. Mostly my problems have been with Smith & Wesson, I got one of their t shirts and that's it anymore. I absolutely hate Smith & Wesson, they are an overpriced piece of garbage to me, I'd rather have a sharpened stick I have yet to whittle over a Smith in a fire fight any day.


I can only go on what I've seen and my smith & wesson m&p is a pretty darn good gun at a lower price point than glock or FN. Their revolvers are a bit expensive but it seems like new quality revolvers from smith and from ruger cost more than quality semi autos. Next paycheck I'm rescuing my SDV9mm from layaway. Can't wait to try it out


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I had a Taurus 85ch ultra with cylinder timing issues and the firing pin broke.


In the 90s I had two Taurus revolvers in 357 the models 607 and 608 neither of them would keep the cylinder timing. I will never own anything with that name on it again.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

NotTooProudToHide said:


> I can only go on what I've seen and my smith & wesson m&p is a pretty darn good gun at a lower price point than glock or FN. Their revolvers are a bit expensive but it seems like new quality revolvers from smith and from ruger cost more than quality semi autos. Next paycheck I'm rescuing my SDV9mm from layaway. Can't wait to try it out


I have an SD9VE it is not a bad gun. The factory trigger pull sucks but you can get a spring kit to reduce it to a manageable 5 pounds. The rear sight is plastic and it does accept sigma mags. It shoots pretty decent at 10-15 yards as well and has no issues with any factory ammo I have tried so far.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

dsdmmat said:


> I have an SD9VE it is not a bad gun. The factory trigger pull sucks but you can get a spring kit to reduce it to a manageable 5 pounds. The rear sight is plastic and it does accept sigma mags. It shoots pretty decent at 10-15 yards as well and has no issues with any factory ammo I have tried so far.


when you start pulling guns out of the scum's death grip - you'll have a bucket full of S & W sigmas of all kinds - one of the most popular on the street ....


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

I picked up a Remington 870 Wingmaster at a police auction for $135 the other day that most folks would consider junk. After I reblued the metal parts and refinished the stock, it looks like new. The extension tube that came with it was worth 50 bucks and it was an older model that still had metal parts.

When I find these types of guns and refinish them, they mean more to me. I guess it’s the labor of love I put into them.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Tennessee said:


> I picked up a Remington 870 Wingmaster at a police auction for $135 the other day that most folks would consider junk. After I reblued the metal parts and refinished the stock, it looks like new. The extension tube that came with it was worth 50 bucks and it was an older model that still had metal parts.
> 
> When I find these types of guns and refinish them, they mean more to me. I guess it's the labor of love I put into them.


I doubt you will find too many here that would call an 870 junk.


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I doubt you will find too many here that would call an 870 junk.


I wasn't saying it was junk because it was an 870 its's because of the condition it was in. Why do you think I took the time and effort to bring it back to life?


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

There are a lot of guns that get labeled as "junk" when it is operator error/ignorance, or just when they don't have good sales volume compared to other companies. The gun community is pretty arbitrary and capricious when it comes to determining what is "junk" and what isn't - and most of those opinions are formed without the proper know-how, back-end knowledge nor desire to learn.

In a whole - that is what an opinion is, a non-fact based statement; but too many times are opinions taken at face valued by uninformed (or under informed) individuals and that is what determines if something is good or bad.

For instance, a lot of people are rag on HiPoint, saying it is a thug/gangster gun, that they do not work, etc etc. Sure, they're ugly and look like a 16pixel rendering of a corny alien blaster but they work. If you don't try to feed it HPs, or SWCs or any other "fancy" bullets it will work just fine. Is it going to ring a gong at 25-50m? YES. Is it going to shoot the bullseye out of a target at 75 feet? Probably not. It is NOT supposed to be a match weapon, it is a sub-$200 firearm for a reason. I love the HiPoint carbines and wish they had a 10mm one, I'd own it.

Same goes for the "value" weapons - the Ruger SR9E for instance, and even the SW9VE - yeah they're bare bones gun, yeah the sights may be less sturdy and yes trigger sucks but that is where the mantra "You Get What You Pay For" comes into play - for sub $300 you are getting a solid platform with solid aftermarket support and interchangeability. After a cheap polish job on my SR9E using up to 2000 grit to finish on the barrel, lugs, rails and trigger assembly internals and taking some burrs/defects off of the polymer it was great. I milled out some deeper serrations and ported the front the reduce the weight and it was an excellent carry gun.

People seem to want everything they touch to be a Nighthawk or Accuracy International when it is not supposed to be, nor is going to be.

There isn't any equipment produced on God's green earth that is "junk" it becomes that way when the operator neglects it, uses it improperly or damages it. People are junk.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

For me a flawed finished is not a deal breaker unless it's new and full price. 

I been considering milling out a wedge to correct the butchering of my MAK-90 so it will accept a standard Mil-spec AR receiver extension then cerakoat the whole rig. 

The gun really does deserve it and so do I. lain:


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## Dirk Pitt (Apr 21, 2015)

Chipper said:


> Keltec. Once you realize semi auto isn't going to happen. You can get used to the clearing jams and failure to feeds. Basically a single shot. Just my personal experience..


I have a Keltec Su-16 and I love it, it took me awhile to figure out what it likes, but once that was done it has not malfunctioned in any way. I know you were referring to pistols and I can't comment on that, since I don't own any, but I can speak for that one rifle.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I'm with Dirk! My KT products have never failed me once! Here are 3 of my KT's I have a few more. These 3 fold up
right into a backpack or briefcase. SUB2000 GEN2's 40SW and SU-16C. The SU-16 takes any standard AR mag.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Grinch2 said:


> Probably one of my most hated " junk guns " is my father's Jennings 22 ( no idea on model here ) but it's a stainless little palm gun that refuses even with good 22 ammo will have plenty of problems ranging from but not limited to failure to cycle and fire, and even delayed fire. But on the more finnecky side of things is my 30-378 Weatherby, it absolutely HATES factory ammo and yes Weatherby ammo might I mind you, the type in the books with the big and scary 3 digit number behind it, but in my Weatherby's defense with my handloads I can hit a deer at 800 yards ( no head shot or off hand type of crazy crap ) but just behind the shoulder from a shooting stick. But for everyone saying revolvers are the go-to, please, we're not in 1850's here guys. I love my revolvers don't get my wrong, but when it comes time to get into a gun fight I want my Glock or my FN with me, because I have never had a single problem with either; whereas my 500's cylinder cracked before I got rid of it, I had a 357 Smith with timing issues. Mostly my problems have been with Smith & Wesson, I got one of their t shirts and that's it anymore. I absolutely hate Smith & Wesson, they are an overpriced piece of garbage to me, I'd rather have a sharpened stick I have yet to whittle over a Smith in a fire fight any day.


1. I had a Jennings .380, it was decent and I would get another one if the price was right.
2. That is not the first S&W revolver with timing problems, it is a common problem with S&W.
3. The cylinder cracking on a .500, is very troubling, I haven't heard of it before now.
4. Revolvers are not the go-to gun in most instances, that is true, an auto is.
5. But, I would not be petrified of a gang of 12, if I had a loaded GP-100 and 3 speed loaders.

That is just me though, I am peculiar. I would whittle the odds, if I had to wade into the middle of them to do it.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Yes there are some guns out there that are considered junk, However;
> 
> If you know the limitations, for instance Hi-Point pistols hate hollow point bullets... If you stick with non-hollow points they work well.
> 
> ...


Well I only owned junk guns for a short period. Back in the day RG's were considered the bottom of the manure pile. Think I read a review in some gun guru magazine which said.."They should pass those things out as graduation gifts from reform school...to give give the cops a good excuse to smoke smoke some pukes." The guy was obvously a hateful old right winger. Now the Spanish imports got mixed reviews. The prevailing theories at the time was Star and Astra were better quality than most of the others. Now I lugged my Llama .380 for many miles. It was real accurate if you remembered it was about 3" low left at 50 feet or so. The Brazil guns was also a mixed bag. They looked nearly enough like and SW to make me want one..till you cooked at all the wide cracks where something supposed to fit snug.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

There is a difference in a Junk gun and a low cost Utility weapon. Someone I know bought a used Hi point 9mm. It puts every round in center mass of a man on the range.
Big bulky and some what ugly. But it has a place at it's price.


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## Lifeoutdoors (Sep 11, 2016)

In my opinion. Anything in life should never be considered junk. Because with anything someone may have the exact same thing as you and it may not work like yours. In cars and trucks to lawnmowers and weed eaters and in this situation guns. 
For instance I have a Hi-Point C9 that I bought brand new. And I've heard the whole that's a cheap hunk of scrap metal hooblah. But I have put 1000 or more rounds through it from the most expensive HP to dirty ass steel cased stuff. And have had a total of 3 failure to feeds. 
If you take care of your weapons and thoroughly clean and oil them when needed no matter the gun it should operate fine. 
I also have a Taurus 709 slim and a Springfield XD9. 
And besides from price I wouldn't rate one over the other. 
But that's just my opinion.


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> There is a difference in a Junk gun and a low cost Utility weapon. Someone I know bought a used Hi point 9mm. It puts every round in center mass of a man on the range.
> Big bulky and some what ugly. But it has a place at it's price.


Like in a backpack sitting in the trunk of a car being kept company by some 147 grain +p hydra shock?


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