# Solar Panels Anyone?



## NZKiwi

Hey Guys!
What do you think about the use of Solar Panels? To save some electricity bills? Or even for your preps?


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## HuntingHawk

Mostly depends on what you pay per kilowatt for electricity. Frequency of outages is a factor also.

As far as backup power solar is great. It won't produce as much power as a backup generator but you don't have to buy fuel for it either.


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## CrackPot

It is definitely on my list of "To-Do's". I've looked into it extensively, and the costs are significant (well, sort of). I already have a battery backup in the basement for the fridge with two #29 marine batteries, a 3000W inverter (115v) and a 115v battery charger. I would just need to but a few panels, a charge controller and a monitor (which is optional, but I want it).

The only problem is the investment to savings ratio is quite high. Each panel is $150/100-watt (ballpark). Where I live we have about 5 hours of peak sun per day meaning I could generate about 15.2 KWH per panel per month. My power company charges me $0.10655 per KWH so it would only save me about $1.62 per month. In reality, it would be more like $1.13 since there's overhead to charge the batteries and power for the inverter and charge controller. So, with the initial start-up costs for the batteries, charge controller, inverter and cabling, the panels pay for themselves in about 11 years. Actually it would be longer since the panel's output degrades over time.

However, in a SHTF, no-grid scenario, the panels would be worth their weight in gold! Just to be able to run the well-pump, fridge and a few lights would be priceless to my family. To get to that point I would need quite a few panels and a hefty investment. So, I'm starting out with just a couple of panels and adding as I go as I designed the system to be expandable.


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## Maine-Marine

We just picked up a different vendor for 45 watts panels... 40 Watt 12 Volt Unlimited Solar High Efficiency Solar Panel

45 watt panel for under $70

we use Morningstar controllers but there are some good inexpensive Chinese ones out there

I have one panel at home and several batteries... If SHTF I would have more...(We stock them at work)


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## CrackPot

Maine-Marine said:


> We just picked up a different vendor for 45 watts panels... 40 Watt 12 Volt Unlimited Solar High Efficiency Solar Panel
> 
> 45 watt panel for under $70
> 
> we use Morningstar controllers but there are some good inexpensive Chinese ones out there
> 
> I have one panel at home and several batteries... If SHTF I would have more...(We stock them at work)


Do you have the TS-45 or the TS-60? How do you like it? Do you have a TS-RM-2 or monitor at all?


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## DerBiermeister

The only thing I have done with solar is to purchase a pretty neat solar charger for my electronic gadgets.

Amazon.com: [New Release] Poweradd? 20W High Efficient Dual-Port Foldable Solar Panel Portable Solar Charger for 5V USB-Powered Devices and External Battery Packs: Cell Phones & Accessories

With four large panels, it is quite efficient and charges remarkably fast. As it folds up nicely, I keep this in my EDC/BOB.

As a companion, I also have this storage external battery pack.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D5T3QK4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Salt-N-Pepper

I am building my retreat from the ground up to be entirely off grid and at least partially solar powered. It's actually more expensive than bringing in utility power, but I don't care.


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## HuntingHawk

I have a mix of 80 & 90 watt panels for a total of 520watts. It runs a chest freezer 24/7 with power left over for some 12VDC lights, fans, & little 12VDC am/fm/tv. My system has been operating for a little over three years. Wait for a sale & can get those panels at $120 or less per panel. Battery bank is just three Walmart 125AH marine batteries.

CrackPot, if your well pump is anything like mine an inverter to run it without burning it out is quite expensive.


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## CrackPot

DerBiermeister said:


> The only thing I have done with solar is to purchase a pretty neat solar charger for my electronic gadgets.
> 
> Amazon.com: [New Release] Poweradd? 20W High Efficient Dual-Port Foldable Solar Panel Portable Solar Charger for 5V USB-Powered Devices and External Battery Packs: Cell Phones & Accessories
> 
> With four large panels, it is quite efficient and charges remarkably fast. As it folds up nicely, I keep this in my EDC/BOB.


I got one very similar for my Get-Home-Bag just to charge the radio and NVGs. This is another reason I want at least some solar at home... to keep electronics charged (2-way radios, HAM/SW monitor, CB, etc.). I keep my electronics in anti-static bags in case of EMP and want to be able to use them after the Event (if they survive).


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## CrackPot

HuntingHawk said:


> I have a mix of 80 & 90 watt panels for a total of 520watts. It runs a chest freezer 24/7 with power left over for some 12VDC lights, fans, & little 12VDC am/fm/tv. My system has been operating for a little over three years. Wait for a sale & can get those panels at $120 or less per panel. Battery bank is just three Walmart 125AH marine batteries.
> 
> CrackPot, if your well pump is anything like mine an inverter to run it without burning it out is quite expensive.


Yeah, I had heard that elsewhere. Right now I have a single-phase 230v submersible. I am shopping now for the 12VDC for a 5/6GPM flow at 100' and a slow start so that it's solar-friendly. Even if I have to pay $1,500 it'll be nice to have water-pressure in a no-grid situation. I Like Indoor Plumbing!


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## HuntingHawk

If your pump is single 230VAC then the inverter isn't so costly. Mine requires phased 240VAC minimum 11amps so limited on the inverters that will work. But I do have a rain catch & storage system for now as a backup.


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## HuntingHawk

This is about my only choice for a well pump inverter.

3000 Watt 240 Vac Output 60Hz Power Inverter


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## HuntingHawk

This is what some of my panels are & the price has dropped some in three years. Think I paid $129 each for the 80watt & $139 each for the 90watt.


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## CrackPot

HuntingHawk said:


> This is about my only choice for a well pump inverter.
> 
> 3000 Watt 240 Vac Output 60Hz Power Inverter


I see that's a modified sine wave inverter - will modified sine be okay for a submersible?


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## HuntingHawk

I do have future plans that I will be purchasing a class A or C used motorhome that is self contained as a bug out vehicle. A solar system will be added. With that solar system I will just need the inverter to operate the well pump. And if not enough sun to keep the batteries up can just fire up the onboard generator of the motorhome.


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## HuntingHawk

CrackPot said:


> I see that's a modified sine wave inverter - will modified sine be okay for a submersible?


Yes, it would work with your pump but its more then you need since you require single phase. If I had an off grid place & the inverter were permanent power it wouldn't be my first choice.

My pump uses two 120VAC legs of the 240VAC which is different then your pump.


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## CrackPot

HuntingHawk said:


> Yes, it would work with your pump but its more then you need since you require single phase. If I had an off grid place & the inverter were permanent power it wouldn't be my first choice.
> 
> My pump uses two 120VAC legs of the 240VAC which is different then your pump.


Just an FYI, and you might have seen it already, here's more info on inverters and submersible pumps including oversizing the inverter for two-wire and modified sine wave units:

Inverter Sizing for Well Pump


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## HuntingHawk

I have a J-pump though.


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## CrackPot

I just checked my receipt from the last pump replacement. I have a Goulds 7G05422C which is a 1/2 HP, single phase two-wire, 230V pump - so yeah, I should be okay with that unit or a similar one (I see that unit has been discontinued).


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## A J

Getting 250w or so of Solar Panels as a backup to my Generators is definitely in the plan. To many items on the 'wish list', having a 240 single phase well pump complicates my requirements. We also don't get as much sunlight here in Michigan as I'd like, AND my house is surrounded by 70' maple and Oak trees.

Having a couple panels that would let me charge batteries during the day and move panels back inside at night are about the only capability here in my current location. However, in a long term grid down situation, the oak trees would be cleared as firewood (maple would remain for the syrup production).

AJ


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## HuntingHawk

Two of these should do it for you AJ.

https://www.solarblvd.com/product_info.php?products_id=2965&osCsid=b29b18b6e1fd7c368c87755fe3b8aff6


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## NZKiwi

Love all your guys setup! I see a lot of thought has been put into it (I'm really new to all this) but to keep in mind even though you might not get physical see able sun light your still getting sun energy. I got sun burnt once on a very cloudy day...


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## Jeep

Solar is on my list of must haves


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## CWOLDOJAX

Solar is on my list too.
I wanna start small. solar recharging for hiking, then some thing for the minimum household items after the storm. Then grow into something off-the-grid.


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## Jeep

I like that approach, start small figure it out and then grow.


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## Maine-Marine

CrackPot said:


> Do you have the TS-45 or the TS-60? How do you like it? Do you have a TS-RM-2 or monitor at all?


we use the MST sunsavers 12 and 24 volt in different watt... some with load disconnect - our stuff is going onto gas and oil well areas, compressor stations and dyhy units

Monitor??? if a radio goes down we get a call.... that is how we monitor...


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## Maine-Marine

Unlimited Solar, Inc
Unlimited Solar 140 Watt 12 Volt Polycrystalline High Efficiency Solar Panel
$198.99

Solar Panels


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## CrackPot

See, that's the only problem for poor folk like me... My fridge runs at 50 watts/hour -> 1200 watt-hours (Wh)/day. I have to generate 1714 Wh/day to keep the batteries charged and with 5 hours of peak sun in NJ I have to generate 342 watts/hour for those 5 hours. So, I have to buy three $200 panels just to run my fridge. Hell of a start up cost. But then, I have a fridge powered for a decade or more off-grid/teotwawki for that $600 I guess. Adding a few panels a year will get to where I want eventually, just keep expanding.


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## NZKiwi

CrackPot said:


> See, that's the only problem for poor folk like me... My fridge runs at 50 watts/hour -> 1200 watt-hours (Wh)/day. I have to generate 1714 Wh/day to keep the batteries charged and with 5 hours of peak sun in NJ I have to generate 342 watts/hour for those 5 hours. So, I have to buy three $200 panels just to run my fridge. Hell of a start up cost. But then, I have a fridge powered for a decade or more off-grid/teotwawki for that $600 I guess. Adding a few panels a year will get to where I want eventually, just keep expanding.


A bit at a time mate.


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## HuntingHawk

Commercial power comes into a house to a 150, 200, or whatever main breaker. It is then subdivided into 15, 20, etc amp breakers. If you basically replace one of those breakers every year with an independent solar system you will pretty much become independent of the power grid. Atleast set up that if commercial power is lost it doesn't affect you real hard.

Another way to look at it is what key items do you not want to loose electricity to?


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## HuntingHawk

Anything with a compressor like a frig or freezer you want to find actual usage rather then factory numbers. One of these will give you real use.
"Kill a Watt" Electric Monitor

Plug the frig in for like three days & then divide by three to get real use of wattage.


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## HuntingHawk

Numbers can get real confusing with solar. I just find it easier to convert everything from watt/hours to amp/hours since that is how the storage batteries are rated. And your storage batteries shouldn't be drawn below 50% rating or you will decrease their life span. So figuring a 130amphour marine/deep cycle battery figure its only good for 65amp/hours at the most.

Another factor is the solar panels more often then not are 12VDC as are the batteries. Yet most everything you operate will require 120VAC & that is atleast a 10X conversion factor & could be as much as 12X depending on the inverter. So 10amp/hours DC drawn from the batteries is only 1amp/hour AC at the most.


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## Strider

You should also figure in the operating loss in the inventor which can be from 3or 4 percent to close to 10 depending on the size and quality of the inventor.


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## HuntingHawk

Don't get caught up in watt rating of solar panels. Fixed angle solar panels are very inefficient. You really want to be able to adjust the panel angles monthly. I tested mine monthly for a year I basically they needed adjust 5 degrees every month for efficiency. And the angle varied from 15 to 45 degrees threw the year & I am at about 30 degrees.

With 520watts of solar panels the very best I have seen at the controller is a little over 26amps. But only about 7amps was being fed to the batteries because of their current percentage of charge.


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## HuntingHawk

Strider said:


> You should also figure in the operating loss in the inventor which can be from 3or 4 percent to close to 10 depending on the size and quality of the inventor.


Which is why I had stated it could be as much as 12X.


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## HuntingHawk

Don't believe the amperage rating of solar panels. Its like believing the MPG rating of a GM vehicle.


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