# VA Hospitals Out-Perform Non-VA Hospitals



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I thought that I would post an interesting study for folks to discuss. :tango_face_wink:



> In this evaluation of the most recent, comprehensive public reporting of VA hospital quality that can be compared with non-VA hospitals, we found that VA hospitals performed better than non-VA hospitals for most outcome measures, but VA hospitals performed worse on certain patient experience measures and behavioral health measures. A recent systematic review was inconclusive about the quality of care provided at VA hospitals vs non-VA hospitals.3 In that analysis, VA hospitals generally performed better than non-VA hospitals with respect to safety and effectiveness of care; however, most of the studies in this review examined only a subset of patients, had a smaller sample size of non-VA Hospitals, used older data, and/or did not examine PSIs or the current patient experience metrics used by CMS.3


Quality at Veterans Affairs vs Non-Veterans Affairs Hospitals | Health Care Quality | JAMA Internal Medicine | The JAMA Network


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

It depends on the area. The VA here is excellent. My wife, who works in medical records for a large health care system, reccomends it to people who ask for advice.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> It depends on the area. The VA here is excellent. My wife, who works in medical records for a large health care system, reccomends it to people who ask for advice.


I do agree that the VA does have very good care at locations. The old saying that "if you have been to one VA, you have been to one VA" is certainly true.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Depends on agenda of those doing the reporting. Last 8 years has seen VA in may places really go down hill. I do understand that any health care connected to service members is going to have it's own unique problems. A lot of if stems from those working with in the system just not caring one bit and they know knowing will be done to them.
My last experience with them was a major improvement . I think they had a bit of a shake up.


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## yooper_sjd (May 14, 2017)

When I still lived in Northern Michigan, the VA Healthcare system for the U.P. and Wisconsin was excellant!!!! Moved to Texas in 2009, and ingested by the over whelmed West Texas VA Healthcare system. wow, it was 180 degree change in healthcare. Damn near killed me few yrs back, waiting on a Cardiologist consult for 3 weeks after dropping like a sack of crap on the treadmill during a stress test. Called VA about Cardiologist consult after 3 weeks, their answer was going to get to you next week on that, (also start to new fiscal quarter). I went to the ER 20 mins after phone conversation, was in ER 10 mins and admitted to the cardiac unit of local hospital, next morning got me 3 stents. So that old saying of once visiting one VA, is just like the other sure the hell don't apply in my book.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Depends on who is making the report. Lot of vets have been left to die when they did not have to. Many still go without needed treatment. We have hope this new Man in charge will turn it around.
Congress women Tammy knew VA was passing out drugs like candy kill vets did nothing. She was informed directly twice about it. Killing vets with drugs seemed fair to her.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

yooper_sjd said:


> When I still lived in Northern Michigan, the VA Healthcare system for the U.P. and Wisconsin was excellant!!!! Moved to Texas in 2009, and ingested by the over whelmed West Texas VA Healthcare system. wow, it was 180 degree change in healthcare. Damn near killed me few yrs back, waiting on a Cardiologist consult for 3 weeks after dropping like a sack of crap on the treadmill during a stress test. Called VA about Cardiologist consult after 3 weeks, their answer was going to get to you next week on that, (also start to new fiscal quarter). I went to the ER 20 mins after phone conversation, was in ER 10 mins and admitted to the cardiac unit of local hospital, next morning got me 3 stents. So that old saying of once visiting one VA, is just like the other sure the hell don't apply in my book.


 That was the plan, let you die no longer a burden. happens a lot. First thing they want you do is sign papers letting them pull the plug on you.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

yooper_sjd said:


> When I still lived in Northern Michigan, the VA Healthcare system for the U.P. and Wisconsin was excellant!!!! Moved to Texas in 2009, and ingested by the over whelmed West Texas VA Healthcare system. wow, it was 180 degree change in healthcare. Damn near killed me few yrs back, waiting on a Cardiologist consult for 3 weeks after dropping like a sack of crap on the treadmill during a stress test. Called VA about Cardiologist consult after 3 weeks, their answer was going to get to you next week on that, (also start to new fiscal quarter). I went to the ER 20 mins after phone conversation, was in ER 10 mins and admitted to the cardiac unit of local hospital, next morning got me 3 stents. So that old saying of once visiting one VA, is just like the other sure the hell don't apply in my book.


I have gotten feedback from veterans from all over the country in my work. It is pretty clear that you have some very good VA's and some bad VA's. The VA realized this, hence their internal 5 start rating system.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Depends on who is making the report. Lot of vets have been left to die when they did not have to. Many still go without needed treatment. We have hope this new Man in charge will turn it around.
> Congress women Tammy knew VA was passing out drugs like candy kill vets did nothing. She was informed directly twice about it. Killing vets with drugs seemed fair to her.


Tammy Duckworth?
I thought she was legit?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Deebo said:


> Tammy Duckworth?
> I thought she was legit?


Tammy Suzanne Green Baldwin as she puts it is one of our gay congresspersons. About all she does is fly around with her girlfriend and ensure vets get no care. But she is a good liberal so she get reelected over and over.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I have experience with both, and VA Medical Centers are usually pretty good, but they can have spectacular flops, because of the patient load and doctor burn-out; it is something to keep in mind.

I had a stomach ulcer, and the doctor blew it off as acid stomach, and I was given Tagemet--- that was a VA doctor. A few months later, I crash landed in the ER at Cabell Huntington Hospital, with a ruptured stomach ulcer. The doctor there treated me with IV antibiotics, and it healed me.

Hospitals and doctors can heal or kill, and it is a good thing to remember that. Because civilian hospitals can be a pack of screw-ups too. The profession as a whole, seems to have taken itself to be gods and not men.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

Well I have VA Healthcare....6 months my blood pressure has been high and it's finally about to get fixed.....over 30 years of open wounds and it's about to get fixed because I quit going to the VA and went to the Local animal hospital and got some spray for dog and cat skin....Never been better on that!.....Now I got blood coming outta places it shouldn't be coming out of.....I'm old enough to finally say enough....Damn chump ass little prick doctor wants me to have a Colonoscopy and our VA people haven't been cleaning them butt scopes right afterwards...hence 500 vets or more that may have Hep C or Aids...16 appointments canceled in the next 24 days because 99% of them will cure not a damned thing....VA is the biggest waste of time in the world. If you go to a civvilian doc with a single problem that takes 2 appointments its gonna take you at least 12 at the VA. The wait list that Obama Fixed...and Trump fixed still exists. over 800K died waiting on the VA for Healthcare before Trump....Since Obama's last term and Trumps first year its down to 304,000! And that's acceptable?

VA...Burn it to the ground...With my Primary care Doc and 4 Nurses with it (They all have prior Felonies and will laugh their asses off and talk about it if you ask em!)

The big killer now is the VA not saying anything if you have cancer....Or any other disease that may take your life...Trimming the old....to have more money to "PRETEND" to treat the new


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SGT E said:


> Well I have VA Healthcare....6 months my blood pressure has been high and it's finally about to get fixed.....over 30 years of open wounds and it's about to get fixed because I quit going to the VA and went to the Local animal hospital and got some spray for dog and cat skin....Never been better on that!.....Now I got blood coming outta places it shouldn't be coming out of.....I'm old enough to finally say enough....Damn chump ass little prick doctor wants me to have a Colonoscopy and our VA people haven't been cleaning them butt scopes right afterwards...hence 500 vets or more that may have Hep C or Aids...16 appointments canceled in the next 24 days because 99% of them will cure not a damned thing....VA is the biggest waste of time in the world. If you go to a civvilian doc with a single problem that takes 2 appointments its gonna take you at least 12 at the VA. The wait list that Obama Fixed...and Trump fixed still exists. over 800K died waiting on the VA for Healthcare before Trump....Since Obama's last term and Trumps first year its down to 304,000! And that's acceptable?
> 
> VA...Burn it to the ground...With my Primary care Doc and 4 Nurses with it (They all have prior Felonies and will laugh their asses off and talk about it if you ask em!)
> 
> The big killer now is the VA not saying anything if you have cancer....Or any other disease that may take your life...Trimming the old....to have more money to "PRETEND" to treat the new


Sorry to hear about your experiences with the VA. It is truly not all or even most VA that are bad, really a minority that are. I guess you live in a state that has a sub-standard VA.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

RedLion said:


> Sorry to hear about your experiences with the VA. It is truly not all or even most VA that are bad, really a minority that are. I guess you live in a state that has a sub-standard VA.


 I've been to the Minneapolis VA....Just a big of a chunk of shit as the others....14 hours in the emergency room because they couldn't retrieve my records from Ky VA...Network down. 8 hours another time trying to get meds (Insulin and Blood pressure meds) that were stolen...never got the meds...couldn't retrieve my Ky records...no explanation just a big healthy FU we can't do it!...so I did a week without insulin and BP meds till I got back to Ky... Red Lion excuse my french but you sound just like one of the VA union members AFGE I think it is? The AFGE is the problem..Put the blame everywhere but where it actually is. Don't forget the VA has been mistreating and killing people for 70 years...It's never been fixed and your words to the contrary of good and bad VA's is simply bullshit! Read the news...you cant hide behind your union.

?No Media? For Minneapolis VA Mental Health Patient Suicide


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

Veterans Affairs considers dumping Minneapolis veterans in Hastings against their will | City Pages

Sub standard VA in my state eh?


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

Unqualified doctors performed brain injury exams at Minneapolis VA Medical Center

I can do this shit all day for months.... Thanks to your "UNION" this is the norm at most VA's


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SGT E said:


> I've been to the Minneapolis VA....Just a big of a chunk of shit as the others....14 hours in the emergency room because they couldn't retrieve my records from Ky VA...Network down. 8 hours another time trying to get meds (Insulin and Blood pressure meds) that were stolen...never got the meds...couldn't retrieve my Ky records...no explanation just a big healthy FU we can't do it!...so I did a week without insulin and BP meds till I got back to Ky... Red Lion excuse my french but you sound just like one of the VA union members AFGE I think it is? The AFGE is the problem..Put the blame everywhere but where it actually is. Don't forget the VA has been mistreating and killing people for 70 years...It's never been fixed and your words to the contrary of good and bad VA's is simply bullshit! Read the news...you cant hide behind your union.
> 
> ?No Media? For Minneapolis VA Mental Health Patient Suicide


If you have VA records in any other state or VA, they are readily available at the moment of your appointment as they are electronic records and available through "Remote data." I access them all of the time. You did say that the network was down, so did you expect staff to crap them out? I am not a union member and most employees are not.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SGT E said:


> Veterans Affairs considers dumping Minneapolis veterans in Hastings against their will | City Pages
> 
> Sub standard VA in my state eh?


You do understand that the VA or any other organization can not dump anyone anywhere unless it is a court ordered recommendation related to a commitment or stay of commitment, right? You do also understand that the "State" run and financed veterans homes are not the national VA, right? If veterans are being routed to Hastings versus Minneapolis, it is the state VA making that call. I do know that most veterans usually go to Hastings as Minneapolis is typically full and then can transfer to Minneapolis when openings arise. A lefty political story that you fell for.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SGT E said:


> Unqualified doctors performed brain injury exams at Minneapolis VA Medical Center
> 
> I can do this shit all day for months.... Thanks to your "UNION" this is the norm at most VA's


I am not able to view the video, so can not comment to the content. I can not comment on what the media is meaning by "unqualified." I do know that the Minneapolis VA is a 5 star center in a system that does not have many 5 star centers. Again, most employees, by far in Minneapolis are not union members.


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

I live 300 yards from my local VA Clinic. It is so full that I have VA Choice. I works for me. I go to the hospital I work for and see a doctor I trust there. I like it. Now that aside, I have used the VA in 3 different states out here in the west and NEVER had a bad experience. The hospitals and doctors are great, but I have seen problems above them.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Gunn said:


> I live 300 yards from my local VA Clinic. It is so full that I have VA Choice. I works for me. I go to the hospital I work for and see a doctor I trust there. I like it. Now that aside, I have used the VA in 3 different states out here in the west and NEVER had a bad experience. The hospitals and doctors are great, but I have seen problems above them.


I do hope that VA Choice will continue to help veterans get seen quicker, as the VA system itself is very, very busy. 3,000 plus out patient visits per day for the Minneapolis VA Medical Center alone.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

5 Star Hospitals....WOW!

Do you want to tell who rated the hospitals now?

The Veterans Administration! In other words.... Themselves!

And they will never allow a third party in to inspect!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ils-secret-quality-ratings-veterans/94811922/

I'm sitting here waiting a month for a wound care appointment and 7 months on another appointment.

All I can say is Mountain Home TN/ Lexington KY and Cincinnati OH are all 4 star Chunks of shit.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SGT E said:


> 5 Star Hospitals....WOW!
> 
> Do you want to tell who rated the hospitals now?
> 
> ...


It is too bad that you have to wait for care that you obviously need. I do not get why you would have to wait at all for wound care? I know that the vets I work with can get wound care scheduled or drop-in basis any time. I am guessing that the other appointment that is 7 months out is a specialty care clinic? You should be able to get a community based appointment with a community based provider if the appointment is out longer than 30 days. It is policy here in the Minneapolis system.
As far as the rating system goes, yes it is a VA rating system done from feedback from VA and non-VA inspectors.
CARF is one non-VA organization that evaluates Mental health clinics here at Minneapolis.

http://www.carf.org/home/


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

RedLion said:


> It is too bad that you have to wait for care that you obviously need. I do not get why you would have to wait at all for wound care? I know that the vets I work with can get wound care scheduled or drop-in basis any time. I am guessing that the other appointment that is 7 months out is a specialty care clinic? You should be able to get a community based appointment with a community based provider if the appointment is out longer than 30 days. It is policy here in the Minneapolis system.
> As far as the rating system goes, yes it is a VA rating system done from feedback from VA and non-VA inspectors.
> CARF is one non-VA organization that evaluates Mental health clinics here at Minneapolis.
> 
> CARF International, [url]www.carf.org, Commission on the Accreditation of Rehabilitation Facilities[/url]


Are you Union?


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SGT E said:


> Are you Union?


No as I previously said. Most VA employees are not union by far. Many VA employees like myself are combat veterans as well.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

RedLion said:


> No as I previously said. Most VA employees are not union by far. Many VA employees like myself are combat veterans as well.


Just Wondering....You must be one of the few that is not.

AFGE Local 3669

The American Federation of Government Employees Professional Local 3669 is one of two AFGE locals serving the Minneapolis Veterans Administration Medical Center. Local 3669 serves ALL the Registered Nurses, Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists, Advanced Practice Nurses, Physician Assistants, Dentists, Pharmacists, Social Workers, Lab Technologists, Respiratory Therapists, Office of Information & Technology Professionals, Research Scientists, Contracting Officers and all other Professional level employees of the facility.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

SGT E said:


> Just Wondering....You must be one of the few that is not.
> 
> AFGE Local 3669
> 
> The American Federation of Government Employees Professional Local 3669 is one of two AFGE locals serving the Minneapolis Veterans Administration Medical Center. Local 3669 serves ALL the Registered Nurses, Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists, Advanced Practice Nurses, Physician Assistants, Dentists, Pharmacists, Social Workers, Lab Technologists, Respiratory Therapists, Office of Information & Technology Professionals, Research Scientists, Contracting Officers and all other Professional level employees of the facility.


The union will and do "serve" all employees, but again, most employees at Minneapolis VA are not union members. In my clinic of 45 social workers, only one out of 45 is in the union.


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