# Are you really going to be able to defend yourself if SHTF etc?



## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Combat conditions are horrible, and most people ever involved in it arent exactly happy, or were really prepared. So, if SHTF, and you need to defend yourself in the woods, home, out where ever , will you honestly be ready.
Whats that 30000 rounds of 556 going to do for ya..
I think reality dictates you will be on the run with little time to carry a load of supplies.
So, what tactics can help you defend, hide, survive in suburbia, or even out in the wilderness when gangs of perps show up..


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I will do the best I can, can never predict the circumstances


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Had some experience. All I have to do it stop the ones that come for me. I am not running.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

smitty901 said:


> had some experience. All i have to do it stop the ones that come for me. I am not running.


likewise.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Find out soon enough.

1. I'm not going out hungry!
2. I'm not going out without a fight, I will leave a mark!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Nothing I do will make me 21 years old again. I am old, tired, worn out, worn down... but when need be... I can be mean nasty


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

SDF880 said:


> Find out soon enough.
> 
> 1. I'm not going out hungry!
> 2. I'm not going out without a fight, I will leave a mark!


Can I change my answer to this??


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Nothing I do will make me 21 years old again. I am old, tired, worn out, worn down... but when need be... I can be mean nasty


MM I'm right there with with you sir! We'll do what we have to do when it is time!


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Steve40th said:


> Combat conditions are horrible, and most people ever involved in it arent exactly happy, or were really prepared. So, if SHTF, and you need to defend yourself in the woods, home, out where ever , will you honestly be ready.
> Whats that 30000 rounds of 556 going to do for ya..
> I think reality dictates you will be on the run with little time to carry a load of supplies.
> So, what tactics can help you defend, hide, survive in suburbia, or even out in the wilderness when gangs of perps show up..


I ain't been building these Pikes for nothing! HAHAHAHAHA:vs_laugh:


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

rural (very), 556 is for varmints here, I may not be well versed in defending my Alamo.. but then again, the gang of thieves won't be well versed in attacking it.. if we must flee, there will be caches at hidden rally points.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The trick is to not become a target in the first place. Don't let anyone know what you have. _*Just STFU.*_ Don't brag, don't boast, and certainly don't advertise. Especially *before *SHTF.

If no one knows you're stocked up with food, water, medical supplies etc, you're far less likely to be a target. Don't go running around with fatigues, an 80-lb pack and 6 firearms screaming, "Hey! Look at me! I was prepared and you weren't!". That'll earn you a headshot in pretty quick order.

Just keep quite, keep your cool and lay low.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

I consider myself having the "home field advantage" because the fields around our home are ours..... at least for the first mile in each direction.....


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

SDF880 said:


> Find out soon enough.
> 
> 1. I'm not going out hungry!
> 2. I'm not going out without a fight, I will leave a mark!





Maine-Marine said:


> Nothing I do will make me 21 years old again. I am old, tired, worn out, worn down... but when need be... I can be mean nasty


Agree with both.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Matthew 6:33-34

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be ministered unto you.

34 Care not then for the morrow, for the morrow shall care for itself: the day hath enough with his own grief.

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

My BOL is 123 miles away. We have 12 locations of ammo, water, first aid and dehydrated foods along with TVP every 10 miles. It is all vacuumed packed in 10" PVC tubes with caps. My wife was with me when I buried these, so if anything happens to me she can bug out. So with our folding bikes and MOLLE packs we can be there hopefully in 3 days.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Yep I will .......


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

I will say again what I said on another forum:
I may not be as good as I was when I was young and even more handsome, but I think I'm good enough to discourage the hell out of them.
And to paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt, I can't shoot well, but I can shoot often.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

I am not fleeing unless I have no other realistic option. I have what I need here. I will do what is necessary. I pray it does not become apocolyptic.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

There was a thread sometime ago about defending yourself against a younger person. It was eye opening when I had to wrestle a 20 something Officer on the mats and my back popped. I had shooting pains down my leg, stabbing pains in my feet and my legs buckled when I went out to my car. I almost busted my tail on the parking lot. It was very scary, but I recovered..............mostly.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Steve40th said:


> Combat conditions are horrible, and most people ever involved in it arent exactly happy, or were really prepared. So, if SHTF, and you need to defend yourself in the woods, home, out where ever , will you honestly be ready.
> Whats that 30000 rounds of 556 going to do for ya..
> I think reality dictates you will be on the run with little time to carry a load of supplies.
> So, what tactics can help you defend, hide, survive in suburbia, or even out in the wilderness when gangs of perps show up..


I'm not too concerned about gangs , perps or marauders. It's the feds and some military personnel that worries me.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Gunn said:


> My BOL is 123 miles away. We have 12 locations of ammo, water, first aid and dehydrated foods along with TVP every 10 miles. It is all vacuumed packed in 10" PVC tubes with caps. My wife was with me when I buried these, so if anything happens to me she can bug out. So with our folding bikes and MOLLE packs we can be there hopefully in 3 days.


You are doing well. My BOL is 50 miles away and I have nothing between here and there. I would like to put a locked Connex box up there with provisions, but I'm afraid it would be burglarized. We keep everything in our camper. We can hold out for about a month and then we are walker chow. I have water and shelter for a lifetime. Food, not so much.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I am under no illusions, I am no super ninja of death combat warrior but I am old, mean, and will exact a price from those who wish me harm. I will do what I can, with what I have, for as long as I can under the circumstances.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> You are doing well. My BOL is 50 miles away and I have nothing between here and there. I would like to put a locked Connex box up there with provisions, but I'm afraid it would be burglarized. We keep everything in our camper. We can hold out for about a month and then we are walker chow. I have water and shelter for a lifetime. Food, not so much.


Be careful with isolated Connex boxes. I used to use them for job site boxes and had about 10 of them. They even had high end locks designed so that a pair of bolt cutters could not reach in to cut the lock. I was still broken into several time.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Had some experience. All I have to do it stop the ones that come for me. I am not running.


I agree 100%


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

Steve40th said:


> So, what tactics can help you defend, hide, survive in suburbia, or even out in the wilderness when gangs of perps show up..


I wouldn't survive very long if armed thugs came to raid my house.The unarmed wouldn't likely try it due to the mastiff and the other dogs.

If people are holed up at home one strategy would be to keep the bulk of your supplies near where you sleep, or alternatively sleep near your supplies, so if someone breaks in you can lie in wait in dark hall or room, and shoot them through walls etc...before they know you are there. One person holed up in a dark room could defend against a group of thugs, just kill every one that steps into the doorway, after one or two get shot the rest won't even try, then pray they don't set the house on fire. Or if supplies are outside maybe keep them in a shed near the bedroom window so you have a clear line of site.

If the bulk of your supplies are at the other end of the house then you have to walk through the home which gives the intruders the advantage.

Another idea is think about how you would approach bad guys outside. I have a flock of noisy chickens and their coop is behind my house. I could imagine someone trying to steal chickens at night, and if that happened I would go out the front door then around back because there are sheds and other things for cover, and I could get close without them noticing. It's a minor thing that seems obvious, but if one hasn't thought about it, it probably wouldn't cross their mind when they are panicked over invaders in their backyard.

If things were real bad I might also consider sleeping outside at night in the woods near the house, so if bad guys expect you to be inside the house they could be surprised by someone shooting at them from the woods in the opposite direction. Because I live in a very small house with multiple dogs, I would not want to fire off a shotgun inside the house if at all possible.

These are just my humble suggestions, I know it would be very difficult especially for those of us that live alone. With only one person all they have to do is wait for us to go outside then pop a bullet in our head from 100 yards away.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Sonya said:


> I wouldn't survive very long if armed thugs came to raid my house.The unarmed wouldn't likely try it due to the mastiff and the other dogs.
> 
> If people are holed up at home one strategy would be to keep the bulk of your supplies near where you sleep, or alternatively sleep near your supplies, so if someone breaks in you can lie in wait in dark hall or room, and shoot them through walls etc...before they know you are there. Or if supplies are outside maybe keep them in a shed near the bedroom window so you have a clear line of site.
> 
> ...


the key is... have a rotating watch so nobody can sneak up on you while you sleep.....


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> The trick is to not become a target in the first place...Don't brag, don't boast, and certainly don't advertise...If no one knows you're stocked up with food, water, medical supplies etc, you're far less likely to be a target. Don't go running around with fatigues, an 80-lb pack and 6 firearms screaming, "Hey! Look at me! I was prepared and you weren't!"...


I will do the same, and that's an essential point. Be the Gray Man.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> the key is... have a rotating watch so nobody can sneak up on you while you sleep.....


Dogs are good at that.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

As already stated, I will do the best that I can. Ideally I will have sufficient notice to bug out to a location in northern MN. If I stay put I will try to be smart, low profile, have some help and prepare to be nastier than anything that comes my way.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Steve40th said:


> Combat conditions are horrible, and most people ever involved in it arent exactly happy, or were really prepared. So, if SHTF, and you need to defend yourself in the woods, home, out where ever , will you honestly be ready.


As ready as can be.



Steve40th said:


> I think reality dictates you will be on the run with little time to carry a load of supplies.
> So, what tactics can help you defend, hide, survive in suburbia, or even out in the wilderness when gangs of perps show up..


Funny, I think the opposite. If I run, I leave all my stores & all my preparations. I don't think people on the run will survive long.

Tactics to survive are numerous, but as already stated, staying stealthy is important. My homestead is out in the country, off a small rural road on the way to nowhere, so I don't expect huge gangs of folks wandering around. So location is very important. IMO, preppers prepare to battle these hordes of city folks but fail to consider their neighbors. If you are prepared & have plenty of food, are you prepared to defend yourself against your friends & neighbors who are starving? I'm not, so a big part of my current preps is storing very large quantities of food for these neighbors. This tactic ensures we have a community working together as opposed to individuals fending for themselves. I can do this & not tell them, so no one thinks I'm some nutcase.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

Keep my head down, use effective fire and know when to GTFO

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

just do the best I can and I don't know, don't care, if it is my time so be it.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> I am under no illusions, I am no super ninja of death combat warrior but I am old, mean, and will exact a price from those who wish me harm.


Old age and treachery shall overcome youth and skill.


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## Dirk Pitt (Apr 21, 2015)

I will lay low (the whole gray man thing) and only engage as a last resort. I have no illusions of playing Rambo, I have all my toys, and will defend, but that is the last option. However, as many have stated it is something you really don't want to get into. I do know lots of prepping types go overboard on the entire Tactical thing. I enjoy the shooting and hunting sports like anyone else. Having firefights with rampaging gang members or whoever can be a very nice dream scenario, but not reality. And for the record, I am prior service, yes, but no combat experience, and I really don't want to gain that experience on my front lawn.


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## Gunn (Jan 1, 2016)

csi-tech said:


> You are doing well. My BOL is 50 miles away and I have nothing between here and there. I would like to put a locked Connex box up there with provisions, but I'm afraid it would be burglarized. We keep everything in our camper. We can hold out for about a month and then we are walker chow. I have water and shelter for a lifetime. Food, not so much.


 Look into the LDS church for recommendations on a years supply. At our BOL I have a years supply of food for 5 adults and 3 children (Enough for my wife, me, my grandkids and kids). This is based on 2200 calories a day. I also have Heirloom seeds and a year round small river. I also just purchased a compound bow and I am turning out to not be to bad with it. So between guns, ammo, food, water and medical supplies we are OK. Our BOL is in such away we can see anyone coming a half a mile away. It has been over forty years since I fired in anger and self defense, I hope it doesn't come to that.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

I am too old to run, got nowhere to run to.
I will do the best I can.
I will make things as unpleasant, for those who come for me, as possible


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

"Whats that 30000 rounds of 556 going to do for ya.. I think reality dictates you will be on the run with little time to carry a load of supplies."

Let me make one thing clear my friend, if they want what I have, they will have to kill me to get it. If they come after me, I will operate under the rules that the Army taught me. I will use deadly force, that is I will shoot them until they stop coming. And I don't care if there are 20 or 30 of them either.
The 5.56 will stop them, if I shoot enough of them; and if they get through, it will be over my dead body.:snipe:


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Slippy said:


> I ain't been building these Pikes for nothing! HAHAHAHAHA:vs_laugh:


I hope you dip them like the VC did!

At least the punji will get it, right???


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

When we at our ages (mine is 71) have survived everything else * has thrown at us, . . . 

It ain't no big deal that I don't survive this one.

I look at it kinda like the Pittsburgh Steelers, . . . if they won the super bowl 3 years in a row, . . . with three undefeated seasons, . . . beating that purple bunch from west of Wisconsin, . . . and the the purple boys beat them in the first preseason game the next year, . . .

Who really is the winner over all??? 

All of us have a date with destiny, death, and the Lord Jesus Christ, . . . and according to most indexes I've outlived my usefulness here, . . . so if they come knocking on mydoor, . . . darn right I'm going out in a pile of empty brass, . . . or at least try to do so.

What is mine, is mine, . . . legal when I got it, . . . paid for, taxes on it paid, . . . ain't nobody elses business what I got, . . . etc. I might share with a few, . . . but just don't make the mistake of thinking of running over the old man, . . . like someone else already said, . . . youth and vim and vigor can be scorched by experience and a little treachery.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Here here we are too old to run but old enough to fight a little. Our shooting irons will be found hot and empty also. Last few rounds for ourselves as per the old John Wayne movies.


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## tc556guy (Sep 9, 2015)

Steve40th said:


> Combat conditions are horrible, and most people ever involved in it arent exactly happy, or were really prepared. So, if SHTF, and you need to defend yourself in the woods, home, out where ever , will you honestly be ready.
> Whats that 30000 rounds of 556 going to do for ya..
> I think reality dictates you will be on the run with little time to carry a load of supplies.
> So, what tactics can help you defend, hide, survive in suburbia, or even out in the wilderness when gangs of perps show up..


Your best option for long term survival is to not be a refugee and to work as a member of a larger community for defense and survival.
In that context 30000 rounds of ammo should be just fine.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Funny how y'all are talking about a firefight like you're in charge of directing it. Sorry, it ain't gonna go down like your Rambo egos tell you they are.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Funny how y'all are talking about a firefight like you're in charge of directing it. Sorry, it ain't gonna go down like your Rambo egos tell you they are.


so how exactly will it go down???? those of us that are prepared to defend our alamo with food and water for years, if it won't be a firefight as you suggest, then what scenario do we have to fear? if nobody is going to try to take what we have, may as well prep in the open and preach it to your neighbors...


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Funny how y'all are talking about a firefight like you're in charge of directing it. Sorry, it ain't gonna go down like your Rambo egos tell you they are.


No one in this thread was bragging that they are Rambo, quite the opposite. Most every reply said they know they can't win against overwhelming numbers, but they will hold out as long as they can.

Did you get this thread mixed up with another one?


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I need a do over.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Funny how y'all are talking about a firefight like you're in charge of directing it. Sorry, it ain't gonna go down like your Rambo egos tell you they are.





ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> so how exactly will it go down???? those of us that are prepared to defend our alamo with food and water for years, if it won't be a firefight as you suggest, then what scenario do we have to fear? if nobody is going to try to take what we have, may as well prep in the open and preach it to your neighbors...





Sonya said:


> No one in this thread was bragging that they are Rambo, quite the opposite. Most every reply said they know they can't win against overwhelming numbers, but they will hold out as long as they can.
> 
> Did you get this thread mixed up with another one?


Is this the bad ass tough guy thread ........? Geez it took me forever to find my way here. Can I go next?


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Steve40th said:


> Combat conditions are horrible, and most people ever involved in it arent exactly happy, or were really prepared. So, if SHTF, and you need to defend yourself in the woods, home, out where ever , will you honestly be ready.
> Whats that 30000 rounds of 556 going to do for ya..
> I think reality dictates you will be on the run with little time to carry a load of supplies.
> So, what tactics can help you defend, hide, survive in suburbia, or even out in the wilderness when gangs of perps show up..


I think with perhaps very few exceptions not many people will be eager for such hardships, including myself, but if such hardships become a reality, having the supplies to survive and defend myself, will be quite preferable to the alternative
Am I Rambo? no, can I defeat a small army with just a Bowie knife and a hickory switch? doubtful, but I''m pretty sure I can make the first quite a few people regret coming to get whats mine.
While I never say never, I don't agree with your being on the run, my plan is to stay right here, thats my home base, where my stuff is, my plan is make whomever pay a heavy price to come get it.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> so how exactly will it go down???? those of us that are prepared to defend our alamo with food and water for years, if it won't be a firefight as you suggest, then what scenario do we have to fear? if nobody is going to try to take what we have, may as well prep in the open and preach it to your neighbors...


Now I served underground in a launch control center & thus have never experienced a firefight, buy I think the point is we must do everything possible to prevent a firefight. My understanding is, few firefights go as hoped or planned... there is always the unexpected. In a firefight, the good guys get hit & die too, as opposed to Rambo movies. So who knows how it will go down but odds are, it will not be pretty if you see your son or wife killed. Just seems some folks think defending their home is going to be glorious.

So yes, I am prepared to fight but I have no illusion that any fight will go my way... no matter if attacked by overwhelming numbers or by a hungry, desperate neighbor. Most of my prepping is designed to prevent fights & build community... a small one to start.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

Sonya said:


> I wouldn't survive very long if armed thugs came to raid my house.The unarmed wouldn't likely try it due to the mastiff and the other dogs.
> 
> If people are holed up at home one strategy would be to keep the bulk of your supplies near where you sleep, or alternatively sleep near your supplies, so if someone breaks in you can lie in wait in dark hall or room, and shoot them through walls etc...before they know you are there. One person holed up in a dark room could defend against a group of thugs, just kill every one that steps into the doorway, after one or two get shot the rest won't even try, then pray they don't set the house on fire. Or if supplies are outside maybe keep them in a shed near the bedroom window so you have a clear line of site.
> 
> ...


Sonya if you have woods close build a tree house and sleep there. Cache everything. Get boobytraps ready to deploy, get NV and a crossbow too. Firearms are great and needed, but sometimes you need cunning and stealth to overcome BGs.


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

Don't forget your shovels. I for one plan on digging a lot of holes.

In fact I might just get started now...


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Steve40th said:


> Combat conditions are horrible, and most people ever involved in it arent exactly happy, or were really prepared. So, if SHTF, and you need to defend yourself in the woods, home, out where ever , will you honestly be ready.
> Whats that 30000 rounds of 556 going to do for ya..
> I think reality dictates you will be on the run with little time to carry a load of supplies.
> So, what tactics can help you defend, hide, survive in suburbia, or even out in the wilderness when gangs of perps show up..


Will I be ready? Probably not. Will I keep trying? Hell Yes.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Back Pack Hack said:


> Funny how y'all are talking about a firefight like you're in charge of directing it. Sorry, it ain't gonna go down like your Rambo egos tell you they are.


I think most here have made a clear and realistic assessment of their situation and realize that not every plan, particularly a battle plan, will go off exactly as designed. I know I have, and I have very realistic expectations of any outcome. What I have seen in this post is that most, given no choice, have formulated a strategy at the very least, for handling the situation, and are fully aware there will be casualties and the perverbial change of plans once it goes to hell.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Living on the edge of a large city, no firearms but lots of training with a kozak shashka (small Russian curved sword), also teaching my girls, they love it too much 
I don't plan to fight and as a female, hiding is the best solution unless I'm forced to lop off heads.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

Maol9 said:


> Sonya if you have woods close build a tree house and sleep there. Cache everything. Get boobytraps ready to deploy, get NV and a crossbow too. Firearms are great and needed, but sometimes you need cunning and stealth to overcome BGs.


Now that right there does sound like Rambo. :]

I can't bug out to a treehouse or anywhere else. I have 6 dogs and I would never leave them, fortunately we are in a rural area. If I ran they would be slaughtered and I wouldn't want to live when everything I loved was dead. No point in going through extreme hardship if everything has already been lost.



Maol9 said:


> Don't forget your shovels. I for one plan on digging a lot of holes.
> 
> In fact I might just get started now...


I'm not digging any graves, that is way too much work in this hard soil. May buy a bag of slaked lyme, it has a lot of other good uses and would make it easier to dump bodies in the woods if need be without a huge odor problem, also can be used in latrines or to store eggs without refrigeration.

Problem there is I couldn't even move a large body, I would have to chop it up just to get it out of the yard. If I have to do that some thigh meat is going to the dogs and chickens. Though if the vehicles still worked then I guess one could tie them to a hitch and drag them down the road a ways.

While armed gangs of locals certainly are possible, or even probable, it wouldn't start off that way. The first people coming to steal/loot would be the not so bright neighbor types looking for low hanging fruit or drug addicts looking for a quick fix.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Sonya said:


> Now that right there does sound like Rambo. :]While armed gangs of locals certainly are possible, or even probable, it wouldn't start off that way. The first people coming to steal/loot would be the not so bright neighbor types looking for low hanging fruit or drug addicts looking for a quick fix.


The "really sad" part about it all, . . . those not so bright neighbors are the ones today who smile and wave, . . . and when the stuff hits the fan, . . . will shoot you in a heartbeat for a box of Oreo cookies.

Hunger, cold, sleep deprivation, and just general bad conditions, . . . can turn a "used to be nice guy" into an gnarly animal right real quick.

And the first one will do it about the quickest, . . .

I have no illusions of being the "last man standing", . . . but I'll defend what I got, where it is, for as long as I can, . . . that is battle plan "A".

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I have no illusions about being super woman. I'm just going to do the best I can.


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Wow, lots of great honest thoughts. 
I was/am always thinking forward. My house is not very well set up for protection.. But, all my neighbors are armed to the teeth. Quite a few are avid hunters and outdoorsman, even one EMT/DNR retiree.. We always talk of what ifs..
But, I fear for my wife and girls. My youngest thinks she is a Rambo, being very fit and a great shooter too. But, my wife is petite and fragile.. Oldest is going to be a Mommy soon.. So many things to think about..
If we can just get a cabin far away from suburbia, and have alarms to let us know when trouble is coming...


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

Digging holes are for the birds....Its an extreme waste of energy....I'll bury nobody

We have hundreds of Turkey and Black vultures here in Central Ky....a 200 pound man will last about 6 hours before he's a bloody skeleton. I timed it with a 80 pound German Shepard once and it was about two hours to total skeleton....


Stripped bare carcasses by the hundreds should be a warning...and they dry out so fast while the flies are eating there's no literally disease problem.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Coastie dad said:


> I will say again what I said on another forum:
> I may not be as good as I was when I was young and even more handsome, but I think I'm good enough to discourage the hell out of them.
> And to paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt, I can't shoot well, but I can shoot often.


I'm about discouraging the enemy. I'm no Teddy Roosevelt and I won't shoot often. But the few times I shoot, some poor soul will be maimed, and their blood curdling screams will be a warning for others not to get too close. If you are about 650 yards plus or minus, I got a round for you with your name on it. I will run and I will hide, but God help you if I find you in my crosshairs. I'm not into the Rambo running fire fights. I will set up an area where I can own and control, where every soul that approaches will be exposed. I won't be seen and my shots won't be heard. Sound crazy but this is my defensive preps.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

6811 said:


> I'm about discouraging the enemy. If you are about 650 yards plus or minus, I got a round for you with your name on it. I will run and I will hide, but God help you if I find you in my crosshairs. I'm not into the Rambo running fire fights. I will set up an area where I can own and control, where every soul that approaches will be exposed. I won't be seen and my shots won't be heard. Sound crazy but this is my defensive preps.


exactly!! I have 800 yds plus of clear FOV in all directions.. a 24 hr watch will be used if required.... I don't plan on having anybody enter our section unnoticed... much less our yard. am I Rambo? no.. but Rambo would have a tough time getting to our location unscathed...


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> exactly!! I have 800 yds plus of clear FOV in all directions.. a 24 hr watch will be used if required.... I don't plan on having anybody enter our section unnoticed... much less our yard. am I Rambo? no.. but Rambo would have a tough time getting to our location unscathed...


The trick is.... Shoot to wound, draw the others out. And what ever you do, stay invisible. If the word gets out that this happens in your AO, people will avoid it.


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## sargedog (Nov 12, 2012)

I have already been through the hardest thing this life has to dish out. I am no longer a spring chicken either, but I will do what needs to be done. Since the loss of our daughter I have changed, I no longer care what people think of me. If you want my stuff I don't suggest you try and take it without me giving you a fight. All I know is I will do my best until my last breathe and then I will be seeing my sweet Jen again.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

sargedog said:


> I have already been through the hardest thing this life has to dish out. I am no longer a spring chicken either, but I will do what needs to be done. Since the loss of our daughter I have changed, I no longer care what people think of me. If you want my stuff I don't suggest you try and take it without me giving you a fight. All I know is I will do my best until my last breathe and then I will be seeing my sweet Jen again.


My prayers for you sargedog.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

dwight55 said:


> The "really sad" part about it all, . . . those not so bright neighbors are the ones today who smile and wave, . . . and when the stuff hits the fan, . . . will shoot you in a heartbeat for a box of Oreo cookies.
> 
> Hunger, cold, sleep deprivation, and just general bad conditions, . . . can turn a "used to be nice guy" into an gnarly animal right real quick.
> 
> ...


Amen, brother, amen.

I'm not Rambo by a long shot and I seriously doubt I'll be the last man standing but I can promise I just won't lay down and give up.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

6811 said:


> The trick is.... Shoot to wound, draw the others out. And what ever you do, stay invisible. If the word gets out that this happens in your AO, people will avoid it.


But also keep in mind that when people are desperate, they will do stupid things. It won't be long before they won't care who gets wounded.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

6811 said:


> I'm about discouraging the enemy.


Same here but there is a question that must be answered... who is the enemy?

If you are prepared & your neighbor, your friends, the folks you go to church, or your cousins aren't, you understand after a few weeks they become the enemy. Are all you really prepared to kill & maim folks you know & love? Of course it is easy to imagine these hordes of strangers attacking and you fighting them off, but what about the neighbor's daughter? I have no doubt some could do what they felt was necessary but as prepared as I am, I refuse to go down that road.

The hard truth is that most folks don't prepare. Sure I've heard the saying "How is your failure to prepare my problem?" and I used to live by that. But could I eat well & watch my neighbors starve? More importantly, since most or my neighbors are *******, avid hunters, would I ever be secure with them as the enemy? Even if they were not aggressive how would I ever know one wouldn't take me out with their deer rifle? Think about it, deer hunters make the perfect sniper as they have spent their whole life learning to hunt silently from cover & waiting for the perfect kill shot from long range.

So for me, I have changed direction & most of my preps now are to assist & welcome others... at least some or most of the families on our rural lane. Obviously there are limits but at least I have started. I am building up my food stores to levels much greater than I would use in 5-6 months. I likewise am storing much more garden seed than my crew would need. My point is the enemy will not always be some crazed stranger. I think our preps have to include considering those who we are close to.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

******* said:


> Same here but there is a question that must be answered... who is the enemy?
> 
> If you are prepared & your neighbor, your friends, the folks you go to church, or your cousins aren't, you understand after a few weeks they become the enemy. Are all you really prepared to kill & maim folks you know & love? Of course it is easy to imagine these hordes of strangers attacking and you fighting them off, but what about the neighbor's daughter? I have no doubt some could do what they felt was necessary but as prepared as I am, I refuse to go down that road.
> 
> ...


A number of years ago @Maine-Marine and I got into this discussion. Hard to believe I know but his logic was pretty good on this point. So part of my preps is to help others too.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

sargedog said:


> I have already been through the hardest thing this life has to dish out. I am no longer a spring chicken either, but I will do what needs to be done. Since the loss of our daughter I have changed, I no longer care what people think of me. If you want my stuff I don't suggest you try and take it without me giving you a fight. All I know is I will do my best until my last breathe and then I will be seeing my sweet Jen again.


I have one also waiting, sargedog, . . . hardest part is I never knew him/her, . . . wife had a miscarriage.

Kinda always thought it was my daughter I never had otherwise, . . . find out one day for sure.

Our prayers are with you.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

I don't have those type ranges to engage. Therefore, you will be coming into a concentrated lateral hail of projectiles.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

If I never have to engage an enemy ever again, I will go to my grave a happy man.
At least I have the training and experience to know what to expect.
Unfortunately, I will not have artillery and several score comrades to back me up.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

As I have no military background my strategy is to lay low and try to keep out of sight as much as possible. Would I defend myself and my family? Absolutely I would. However there are just as many ways to avoid a fight as to win a fight. Posting a fake "FEMA shelters 5 miles," down the road could encourage many to keep moving. We have to also consider why kind of SHTF event we're talking about. A medium scale one like Hurricane Katrina could mean that one would only need to hold out for a few days until some form of outside assistance comes in. Button up, don't let in anyone you don't know and ride it out as best you can. There are other plans for larger scale events. I'd type more but I'm at work right now on my ambulance and we're getting a call.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Ok..let us build an imaginary world in our heads and move in to inhabit the place. Smart preppers do that.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Rambo references. Sheesh. If you've ever read my musings you know I don't expect to survive forever. But I do plan on making g bad guys think about whether I'm worth the effort or not. In reality? The ambush and long range shot will be the winning tactic. You can't defend against that. You just get lucky or shot. Doesn't matter if you're a special forces recon airborne SAS spetznaz combat wombat or a clerk typist. (Whoops...showing age again...)


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

There ya go Dad..some things are worse than being dead. Some of these young skulls of mush dont understand the procedure.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

******* said:


> Same here but there is a question that must be answered... who is the enemy?
> 
> If you are prepared & your neighbor, your friends, the folks you go to church, or your cousins aren't, you understand after a few weeks they become the enemy. Are all you really prepared to kill & maim folks you know & love? Of course it is easy to imagine these hordes of strangers attacking and you fighting them off, but what about the neighbor's daughter? I have no doubt some could do what they felt was necessary but as prepared as I am, I refuse to go down that road.
> 
> ...


I have very few friends and fewer relatives. Where I'm going, there will be no neighbors. As for where I'm living now, I do have neighbors but I'm not close to any of them. So if the SHTF and they come around, I will share food if I have some extra to spare, if not they will be turned away. The ones who will force their way in will be dealt with deadly force. Unfortunately, when you give more will come to the point that all your preps will be exhausted. Not me, my family is my priority.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sounds like you and I are similar. Live people make me nervous and piss me off. I used to have a friend but he passed in 56.


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## Grinch2 (Sep 12, 2016)

Our method is to bunk in, with our perimeter security on hand I believe I could hold my own to a relative degree, of course we all have our limitations. One thing my fiance and I are considering doing is using concrete retaining wall blocks ( those ones that look like big concrete lego bricks ) and putting them in front of our house, right up against it. She wants to cover them with dirt make it look somewhat like a raised bed flower bed. But I mean I know my woods around my cabin about as well as anyone, minus my old man. But an attacking force, they're going to be tired more than likely, they won't be the most well prepared for a fire fight. So if I sneak through my woods and set up an ambush on them with my Scar and say ten magazines I would say overall I would have the upper hand. Say a large force came right in my driveway past trees and rocks and what have you, in my cabin I mean I got all of my stuff, my fiance can load guns for me or she can put out some fire. For being a five foot little I-talian gal she sure can shoot, so overall for an attacking force it would not be too advantageous for them to attack my cabin. Paired with my buddy and his fiance I think we could hold our own Alamo pretty well. 

Now granted an Apachi helicopter and an AC-130 start unloading on my place no one's place will survive, but tactics for survival are general whether you're in NYC or 100 miles into the Yukon; you cause a commotion and a commotion will be caused for you. Stealth is good overall, but be ready mentally, physically and ammo wise to make sure someone knows you're serious. Who knows maybe when your preps run out and you've relied so heavily on them you can't get a deer, maybe you'll have to put a hole in someone for a can of green beans  

From what I have gathered on this blog overall is SOME people are ready to survive by their own means, however what I do believe is from my gathered information is as far as being mentally prepared they're S.O.L in that department. Because they can't justify putting a hole in someone for a can of green beans while their wife or whatever is starving, point blank prepper or not I am going to give my dying breath to make sure my fiance survives an apocalyptic situation. What I do believe is that the strongest will survive, that does not mean the most skilled or most well prepared, that means the person who is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure they and their group survives. From eating dogs, to dog food, to people...


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Could you mind giving us the gist of it in a nutshell. Some of us old guys cant grasp a lot of blah blah blah stuff. We just need the facts..lol. What is it?


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> If I never have to engage an enemy ever again, I will go to my grave a happy man.
> At least I have the training and experience to know what to expect.
> Unfortunately, I will not have artillery and several score comrades to back me up.


It is my most fervent hope none of the topics discussed ever come to pass. As I have said before, I would rather drink a beer and watch a football game.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Prepared One said:


> It is my most fervent hope none of the topics discussed ever come to pass. As I have said before, I would rather drink a beer and watch a football game.


^^^^^ In peace and quiet.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> If I never have to engage an enemy ever again, I will go to my grave a happy man.
> At least I have the training and experience to know what to expect.
> Unfortunately, I will not have artillery and several score comrades to back me up.


Yeah, . . . would be nice too if I could call up a little air support from the USS Coral Sea or the "Big E".

A couple of Phantoms, . . . maybe a squad of Skyraiders, . . .

"UH, . . . air-ops, . . . targets are on the roadway a half-klick south of the green smoke, . . . danger-close, . . . thanks for the support"

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Ok. Let me try to nutshell this conversation, bigwheel.
Some of us know there comes a time when you go "all in" even when your hand sucks because some chance beats hell out of no chance. Fate is a carpenter. Sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

Grinch2 said:


> Because they can't justify putting a hole in someone for a can of green beans while their wife or whatever is starving, point blank prepper or not I am going to give my dying breath to make sure my fiance survives an apocalyptic situation. What I do believe is that the strongest will survive, _*that does not mean the most skilled or most well prepared*_, that means the person who is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure they and their group survives. From eating dogs, to dog food, to people...


So your "plan" involves killing your neighbors for their can of green beans and possibly resorting to cannibalism in order to feed your "fiance". And those that actually try to prepare are mentally deficient and will be S.O.L. because they don't have what it takes to survive.

Alrighty then.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

This thread is what gives Preppers a bad name.

If attacked on our property we should defend. We have no right to hurt people who are not trying to hurt us and discussing exactly how you will kill and bury your neighbor is video game bravado and very stupid. Act like responsible adults when posting to threads like this one.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Coastie dad said:


> Ok. Let me try to nutshell this conversation, bigwheel.
> Some of us know there comes a time when you go "all in" even when your hand sucks because some chance beats hell out of no chance. Fate is a carpenter. Sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail.


Yep, that's it in a nutshell.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

John Galt said:


> This thread is what gives Preppers a bad name.
> 
> If attacked on our property we should defend. We have no right to hurt people who are not trying to hurt us and discussing exactly how you will kill and bury your neighbor is video game bravado and very stupid. Act like responsible adults when posting to threads like this one.


BUT!....

If you are going to kill and bury your neighbor please remember to keep a few Gen-U-Wine Slippy-Made Pikes on hand to raise the severed head of good old Joe the accountant down the street who refused to prepare and tried to steal your beans!

Nothing says I'm a good neighbor like a Gen-U-Wine Slippy-Made Pike. So get yours now!

(Terms and conditions apply)


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

Slippy said:


> BUT!....
> 
> If you are going to kill and bury your neighbor please remember to keep a few Gen-U-Wine Slippy-Made Pikes on hand to raise the severed head of good old Joe the accountant down the street who refused to prepare and tried to steal your beans!
> 
> ...


LOL. A severed head on a stick right above the "No Tresspassing" sign does send a strong message, and one I would consider except most of my neighbors are all extended family. Chances are it would be one of their family members which could lead to more trouble.

Before someone suggests "making friends with them" uhhhh....no. I wouldn't recognize any if they came by, but they know who I am. They know me as that "crazy white woman" that called the Sheriff when they abandoned/abused a dog, and then had some 'words' with a male family member that lead to him being afraid to walk by my house.

Come to think of it, a head on a pike might not surprise them all that much. Better to be seen as a psycho than a soft target. I need to buy a machete.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm glad you brought up family Sonya,

Slippy Made Pikes is a family owned bidness that places a high priority on loved ones, near and far. That's why we suggest the DEE-LUX version of Gen-U-Wine Slippy-Made Pikes.

Be it a family reunion, Christmas, Thanksgiving or some heathen-ass made up holiday like kwaanza or ramadam nothing says family is important like the DEE-LUX Pike. Made of solid stainless steel with the patented heat treated Slippy-Made process, you and your loved ones will enjoy the longevity of a quality Pike for years to come.

AND its made in the good ole USA, which is a plus should some of your extended family be illegals or "what not" from some other ****-hole country south of here!

Get yours now!

(Terms and Conditions apply)



Sonya said:


> LOL. A severed head on a stick right above the "No Tresspassing" sign does send a strong message, and one I would consider except most of my neighbors are all extended family. Chances are it would be one of their family members which could lead to more trouble.
> 
> Before someone suggests "making friends with them" uhhhh....no. I wouldn't recognize any if they came by, but they know who I am. They know me as that "crazy white woman" that called the Sheriff when they abandoned/abused a dog, and then had some 'words' with a male family member that lead to him being afraid to walk by my house.
> 
> Come to think of it, a head on a pike might not surprise them all that much. Better to be seen as a psycho than a soft target. I need to buy a machete.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Slippy said:


> I'm glad you brought up family Sonya,
> 
> Slippy Made Pikes is a family owned bidness that places a high priority on loved ones, near and far. That's why we suggest the DEE-LUX version of Gen-U-Wine Slippy-Made Pikes.
> 
> ...


You can have an arsenal with 1.5 billion rounds of ammo and 10,000 warehouses full of food and fuel. Without a gen-u-wine slippy pikes, you are not really prepared.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

And the attractive packaging let's your friends and neighbors know that in the event a pike is needed, you have invested in quality, American made goods.


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## jagular (Feb 6, 2016)

The Prepared Mind YouTube channel did an interesting video on the "hordes" targeting preppers in shtf and how a semi-organized group of dozens of raiders can easily overrun a small peeper group. You have guns but so will they. Can you really fortify your urban, suburban or even rural home in this scenario? He doesn't really provide an answer but contemplates strategies these type of people might use and the viability of surviving sustained attacks.

Beyond a nuclear or biological attack/outbreak I plan to bug-in in my suburban neighborhood. My only thought is to organize your group or community and actively patrol beyond your area and have controlled access or check points. Take the fight outward as you will surely die with the Alamo mindset. Difficulty is trying to organize a medium size group and being able to sustain that group without becoming marauders yourself. Even though I could arm and sustain 6-8 people for a few months, that surely isn't larger enough to deter or counter a larger force. Hiberniason, also on YouTube, talks about tactics in shtf.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

jagular said:


> The Prepared Mind YouTube channel did an interesting video on the "hordes" targeting preppers in shtf and how a semi-organized group of dozens of raiders can easily overrun a small peeper group. You have guns but so will they. Can you really fortify your urban, suburban or even rural home in this scenario? He doesn't really provide an answer but contemplates strategies these type of people might use and the viability of surviving sustained attacks.


I agree, small peeper groups are screwed in this scenario...


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Nothing I do will make me 21 years old again. I am old, tired, worn out, worn down... but when need be... I can be mean nasty


Do not F-- - with old men (or women that are agedly challenged). They've been there, and already have the T-Shirt. And most figure they've got nothing to lose and will go down swinging to the last


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

jagular said:


> The Prepared Mind YouTube channel did an interesting video on the "hordes" targeting preppers in shtf and how a *semi-organized group of dozens of raiders *can easily overrun a small peeper group.


Preparedmind...sheesh...when he isn't chewing on a cigar and fantasizing about the abundance of sex slaves after the apocolypse he is waxing on about "hordes" of crazed people going door to door.

That is complete BS. He claims 50 starving crazed people with guns will go door to door searching for food. Think about that for a moment. What do you think will happen when several dozen armed starving desperate people barge in and only find 3 packs of stale ramen??? They would turn on each other in a heartbeat, that's what. Horde problem solved.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Grinch2 said:


> Our method is to bunk in, with our perimeter security on hand I believe I could hold my own to a relative degree, of course we all have our limitations. One thing my fiance and I are considering doing is using concrete retaining wall blocks ( those ones that look like big concrete lego bricks ) and putting them in front of our house, right up against it. She wants to cover them with dirt make it look somewhat like a raised bed flower bed. But I mean I know my woods around my cabin about as well as anyone, minus my old man. But an attacking force, they're going to be tired more than likely, they won't be the most well prepared for a fire fight. So if I sneak through my woods and set up an ambush on them with my Scar and say ten magazines I would say overall I would have the upper hand. Say a large force came right in my driveway past trees and rocks and what have you, in my cabin I mean I got all of my stuff, my fiance can load guns for me or she can put out some fire. For being a five foot little I-talian gal she sure can shoot, so overall for an attacking force it would not be too advantageous for them to attack my cabin. Paired with my buddy and his fiance I think we could hold our own Alamo pretty well.
> 
> Now granted an Apachi helicopter and an AC-130 start unloading on my place no one's place will survive, but tactics for survival are general whether you're in NYC or 100 miles into the Yukon; you cause a commotion and a commotion will be caused for you. Stealth is good overall, but be ready mentally, physically and ammo wise to make sure someone knows you're serious. Who knows maybe when your preps run out and you've relied so heavily on them you can't get a deer, maybe you'll have to put a hole in someone for a can of green beans
> 
> From what I have gathered on this blog overall is SOME people are ready to survive by their own means, however what I do believe is from my gathered information is as far as being mentally prepared they're S.O.L in that department. Because they can't justify putting a hole in someone for a can of green beans while their wife or whatever is starving, point blank prepper or not I am going to give my dying breath to make sure my fiance survives an apocalyptic situation. What I do believe is that the strongest will survive, that does not mean the most skilled or most well prepared, that means the person who is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure they and their group survives. From eating dogs, to dog food, to people...


I'm a peaceful man who doesn't even like to hunt, but I would have no problem putting a 30 caliber bullet thru the brain of anyone who thinks like that.


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## jagular (Feb 6, 2016)

Sonya said:


> Preparedmind...sheesh...when he isn't chewing on a cigar and fantasizing about the abundance of sex slaves after the apocolypse he is waxing on about "hordes" of crazed people going door to door.
> 
> That is complete BS. He claims 50 starving crazed people with guns will go door to door searching for food. Think about that for a moment. What do you think will happen when several dozen armed starving desperate people barge in and only find 3 packs of stale ramen??? They would turn on each other in a heartbeat, that's what. Horde problem solved.


I don't think anyone knows what will happen in an urban shtf. To simply label possibilities as BS is foolish. I also think you are underestimating people and their willingness to survive. Who's also to say that they would only hit a single house in a day? An organized group could easily hit an entire block in a day depending on their leadership and the level of resistance they encounter. If an aggressive group is successful in their endeavors early on then what incentive do they have to turn on each other? I think people are smart enough, in general, to understand they'll potentially do better together vs alone with the wife and children.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

jagular said:


> ...I think people are smart enough, in general, to understand they'll potentially do better together vs alone with the wife and children.


Sheet son, you done gone and made the quintessential mistake, but then you again you might be a single man?

The reality is...Seal Team 6 ain't got a snowball's chance in hell against the likes of a healthy wife on some Raging Ass Hormonal PMS or menopausal condition! :vs_no_no_no:

You boys out there know what I'm talkin' 'bout right? :vs_laugh:


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## Maol9 (Mar 20, 2015)

SGT E said:


> Digging holes are for the birds....Its an extreme waste of energy....I'll bury nobody


SGT E, My holes aren't just to bury bodies. In fact I hope I don't have to bury anyone. Because the only body burying I will be doing will be our own dead. The other dead will be dragged off so I don't have to as you said waste any energy on them, or smell them. My holes are for booby traps, caches, foxholes and concealed hides.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

jagular said:


> The Prepared Mind YouTube channel did an interesting video on the "hordes" targeting preppers in shtf and how a semi-organized group of dozens of raiders can easily overrun a small peeper group. You have guns but so will they. Can you really fortify your urban, suburban or even rural home in this scenario? He doesn't really provide an answer but contemplates strategies these type of people might use and the viability of surviving sustained attacks.
> 
> Beyond a nuclear or biological attack/outbreak I plan to bug-in in my suburban neighborhood. My only thought is to organize your group or community and actively patrol beyond your area and have controlled access or check points. Take the fight outward as you will surely die with the Alamo mindset. Difficulty is trying to organize a medium size group and being able to sustain that group without becoming marauders yourself. Even though I could arm and sustain 6-8 people for a few months, that surely isn't larger enough to deter or counter a larger force. Hiberniason, also on YouTube, talks about tactics in shtf.


this makes sense.... until they run out of soft targets that are nearby... then it turns to hamburger hill at every stop.. in order for hordes to overtake multiple targets continuously, they will need supplies, and transportation..... yes they can fill a house with thousands of rounds from hundreds of guns... lose a dozen guys, and in the end get enough food to last 1/3 of them a week.. and ammo to replace 1/3 of what was expended in the first fight.. do the math.. eventually they are finished.. guerilla tactics to disrupt their transportation and supplies will speed up the process..


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

yes.. we stormed normandy and took island-by-island in the Pacific..... but we had constant resupply of food, water, equipment, and troops....


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

6811 said:


> You can have an arsenal with 1.5 billion rounds of ammo


Well I'm that far along anyway.....I haven't bought a gun and ammo since.... 9:12 AM this morning at Buds Gun shop.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

jagular said:


> I don't think anyone knows what will happen in an urban shtf. To simply label possibilities as BS is foolish. I also think you are underestimating people and their willingness to survive. Who's also to say that they would only hit a single house in a day? An organized group could easily hit an entire block in a day depending on their leadership and the level of resistance they encounter. If an aggressive group is successful in their endeavors early on then what incentive do they have to turn on each other? I think people are smart enough, in general, to understand they'll potentially do better together vs alone with the wife and children.


He isn't talking about gangs, he is talking about every hungry person in a 3 block radius joining together to go house to house and look for preppers. He specifically says groups of 50 or more.

That simply won't happen. Sure gangs will exist, but they have some form of structure and TRUST which enable the participants to believe they will get a share if they contribute, they also limit the size of their group based on the spoils that can be divided up.

That is completely different than a "horde" of random hungry people joining together simply because they live in the same neighborhood and going out to loot/kill the "preppers" as a team which is _*exactly*_ what he predicts will happen, since all the hungry people watched doomsday preppers so they know preppers have food.

They aren't going to organize on any type of mass scale. Some will start committing criminal acts right away simply to take advantage of wrol, others will start a couple of days later when the food runs out and and so on. It will be steady progression and the majority will worry about becoming the next victim.


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## jagular (Feb 6, 2016)

Sonya said:


> He isn't talking about gangs, he is talking about every hungry person in a 3 block radius joining together to go house to house and look for preppers. He specifically says groups of 50 or more.
> 
> That simply won't happen. Sure gangs will exist, but they have some form of structure and TRUST which enable the participants to believe they will get a share if they contribute, they also limit the size of their group based on the spoils that can be divided up.
> 
> ...


Yes, the video implies a "zombie horde" but he also discusses some level of organization. I took it as an organized group. The dynamics of such group can be left to the imagination (i.e. Gang, prepped group) but they all share the same goal...to survive off of others. Regardless, I'm not so absolute and it only takes one skilled person to organize a room full of strangers. Everyone who is unprepared will put their own self preservation and that of their family's above anyone else's in shtf. This is a powerful motivator. It will be a progression and the level of danger will increase with time.

It's an interesting "what if" and worth consideration for those with the best laden plans or for those who may not have considered it at all.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

SGT E said:


> Well I'm that far along anyway.....I haven't bought a gun and ammo since.... 9:12 AM this morning at Buds Gun shop.


Nice..... What kind?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

IF a group of urban dempcrats decide to do something so stupid as to attempt to organize and go house to house to steal food/supplies from others during a WROL situation the first thing you do is put a big ass round square in the forehead of the loudest person who is usually the HNIC. The rest will scatter like roaches. As they run, pick out a few that you think one day may attempt to assume the role of New HNIC and vertabrae shoot their asses as the flee.

Seriously, anyone tries this shit on me at Slippy Lodge, they are freakin idiots.



jagular said:


> Yes, the video implies a "zombie horde" but he also discusses some level of organization. I took it as an organized group. The dynamics of such group can be left to the imagination (i.e. Gang, prepped group) but they all share the same goal...to survive off of others. Regardless, I'm not so absolute and it only takes one skilled person to organize a room full of strangers. Everyone who is unprepared will put their own self preservation and that of their family's above anyone else's in shtf. This is a powerful motivator. It will be a progression and the level of danger will increase with time.
> 
> It's an interesting "what if" and worth consideration for those with the best laden plans or for those who may not have considered it at all.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

jagular said:


> Yes, the video implies a "zombie horde" but he also discusses some level of organization. I took it as an organized group. The dynamics of such group can be left to the imagination (i.e. Gang, prepped group) but they all share the same goal...to survive off of others. Regardless, I'm not so absolute and it only takes one skilled person to organize a room full of strangers. Everyone who is unprepared will put their own self preservation and that of their family's above anyone else's in shtf. This is a powerful motivator. It will be a progression and the level of danger will increase with time.
> 
> It's an interesting "what if" and worth consideration for those with the best laden plans or for those who may not have considered it at all.


This guy has interesting thoughts on the topic. He was in the military and did Haiti earthquake relief, which got pretty dicey and mob violence broke out at times.

He also points out that the most deadly and efficient gangs could easily come from not only criminal organizations, but the police and even small groups of military that are no longer fortified. If they have existing structure and they are hungry they have the skill sets and associates to become very efficient at raiding places, they will use those talents to survive. Maybe folks should befriend non-prepper cops, better to hire them as mercenaries than be their victims.


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