# Solar Project for the Barn; Input Needed!



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm hoping my man @Elvis will weigh in on this (as well as others)!

I have been building my barn for the past couple of years and now I am ready to get some lights and power out to the barn.

The Barn is located about 50 yards or so from the house and I really don't want to run any power lines from the house to the barn either underground or overhead. Right now I have a couple of inexpensive solar battery powered motion detector lights that allow enough light to not bust my shins on anything but other than that the barn is off limits in the dark.

We've been thinking about mounting some solar panels on the barn, adding some batteries and running some wire to add lights and some charging stations for my battery powered tools or to give me some power to run some tools.

I do not know shit from shinola on where to start so I'd love suggestions on what to do.

Panels? How many, # of Watts, and what mfg'er?
Batteries? How many to run the lights and some charging stations
Inverter? Brand? Size? etc

It would be great if someone made a Pre-Made Kit that had everything I need and I just mount everything, plug and play?

Thanks!


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Home depot have kits in various sizes (wattages). I started with a 400 watt kit that included panels, wires, charge controller, and inverter. i paid $1400 years ago. It is much much less now.
The charge controller and inverter in this kit allow for a few extra panels to be installed later if desired. The kits do not include batteries.


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## Marica (May 5, 2019)

Are you thinking about mounting stationary panels on the barn's roof? If so, is it the roof south facing? What is its angle in relation to the optimal angle of incidence for your latitude? you didn't mention it, but those considerations are the starting points.

If none of the barn's roof sides are south facing, you may want to consider a more portable ground set up with or with or without panels that can be seasonally adjusted (to maximize capturing solar energy as the sun shifts through out the year). Also, how much wattage will you need?

Quantum Harvest as a fairly decent FAQs and a line of portables including some pretty big ones. They're fair expensive IMHO but that's because the guts are all in a Faraday box. Interesting stuff to look at and learn from if nothing else.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

@*Slippy*

Tom set up a cheapie system out in his garage for music & lights
(He uses a line run from the gen to run tools)

45watts of panels (3- 15w he had stashed away) mounted on a rack on a pole 
- wired in to a charge controller he got on eBay for $30 (it also has a USB port on it for phone charging)
- wired from there down to a single 12v deep cycle battery he got from Walmart for $99 that had a 2yr warranty.
From the battery he wired a bunch of lights (12v)... shop lights, rope lighting (lol), security camera, etc.

Tom says Harbor Freight has an okay package, but you could go cheaper getting the components off of wish.com, his only later upgrade might be a second battery, but so far the one has been more than enough.

MG says - the easiest way to think about all this is as a two-part system:

1. Running things off a battery - and
2. Charging up the battery... cause you only need three things to do that - panels, and a charge controller, and the sun. 

This ^^ is all for DC 12v uses.

Here's the HarborFreight 100w solar kit for $189 - (DC system, just add batteries!) 
It even includes some lights, lol









Product Overview
Portable and easy to set up, this reliable, durable solar energy kit delivers 100 watts of free, clean and quiet energy. The amorphous solar cells offer efficient output in both bright and cloudy conditions.
Four 25 watt solar panels give you plenty of clean, quiet energy
Amorphous silicon solar cells for maximum output in both bright and cloudy conditions
Lightweight, weather resistant construction - easy to set up and maintain
Blocking diode prevents panels from discharging your battery at night
Charge controller protects your battery from overcharge or discharge
Comes with mounting hardware, 12V Light Kit, battery terminal clamps and universal DC power adapter
USB port for charging smartphones and tablets

https://www.harborfreight.com/100-watt-solar-panel-kit-63585.html

***
If you want bigger/more -you'll also need more panel watts, an inverter (for AC), and more battery capacity. Buy a lot of capacity. Even the inverter pulls on them. We have three systems up here now LOL. The huge AC one for the cabin, a small AC one for the Chalet, and the teeny DC one for Tom's garage.

If/when you get to the point of knowing what your _needs_ are going to be out there - I can help you size out a very simple system, if you want. I like simple!

Have fun! :vs_wave:


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

If you're only looking to run lights we can avoid the cost of an inverter and instead hook a few 12v or 24v strip lights wo some batteries that solar panels charge up. About 30 inches of a strip light like this one puts out as much light as a 60 watt bulb. https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...-tape-light-1224v-ip67-waterproof/5602/12552/ Figure about 10 watts of power using LEDs to provide the same light as a 60 watt bulb.

But if you're running any sort of battery charger you'll probably need a PSW (pure sine wave) inverter. Battery chargers don't run well when powered by cheap MSW (modified sine wave) inverters.
Samlex PSW inverters are a good choice for powering the battery chargers and other small electronics. https://www.amazon.com/Samlex-Solar...nverter+PSW+Samlex&qid=1581108968&sr=8-2&th=1 @Slippy


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Hey Slip .... whats wrong with keeping a couple of them mexcans out there full time with lanterns filled and ready to go? teach 'em how to pul that start rope on the 6500-watt generator and you should be golden.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Hey @Slippy

You might want to check Northern Tool and Equipment. When we were living in MN we had one of their retail stores about 3 miles from our house. They always had some pretty good deals on complete small solar packages. They do ship all over the country as I have bought stuff from them since we moved to AZ.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_alternative-renewable-energy+solar-panels-accessories+crystalline-solar-panels


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

@Slippy It's usually best to determine how much power you need first and size the system based on that. 60 watts for light (whether one 60 watt bulb or multiple LEDs equaling 60 watts) for 1 hour a day = 60 watt-hours of power required, for example. AC or DC doesn't really matter for doing the math, that 60 watts of light will pull about 5 amps from a 12v DC battery, or 0.5 amps from a 120 AC plug, but it's still 60 watts either way.

Since you mentioned a charging station for battery powered tools I checked my Dewalt 18v battery charger. The spec plate shows it uses 2 amps (nominal) at 120 volts AC. 2 amps x 120 volts = 240 watts. Using it to charge a power tool battery pack for 1 hour each day requires 240 watt-hours.

So if you needed 3 hours of light (60w x 3 hours = 180 watt-hours) + 1 hour of power pack charging (240w x 1 hour = 240 watt-hours) each day, that's 420 watt-hours of power you need to put into the batteries each day just to meet the demand.

A 45 watt solar array, in a perfect world with no losses, for each hour of full sun provides 45 watt-hours. Getting an average 5 hours of full sun a day, which might be a good average for the southern states (I use 4 hours up here) is 45 watts x 5 hours = 225 watt-hours each day.

Once you have the power requirements you'll be able to determine the size and number of solar panels. The battery bank is also sized off of the daily power used, a typical sized bank being large enough to supply 2-3 days of power without draining the batteries too deeply. This allows some extra battery capacity for multiple cloudy/rainy days in a row.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Crunch said:


> @*Slippy* It's usually best to determine how much power you need first and size the system based on that. 60 watts for light (whether one 60 watt bulb or multiple LEDs equaling 60 watts) for 1 hour a day = 60 watt-hours of power required, for example. AC or DC doesn't really matter for doing the math, that 60 watts of light will pull about 5 amps from a 12v DC battery, or 0.5 amps from a 120 AC plug, but it's still 60 watts either way.
> 
> Since you mentioned a charging station for battery powered tools I checked my Dewalt 18v battery charger. The spec plate shows it uses 2 amps (nominal) at 120 volts AC. 2 amps x 120 volts = 240 watts. Using it to charge a power tool battery pack for 1 hour each day requires 240 watt-hours.
> 
> ...


Hiya Crunch 
Sizing a system would be a helluva lot easier if we could know beforehand what our 'power requirements' would actually be. Oh - it's easy enough to calc the numbers, etc; but who knows what we'll run for how long each day? So what we did, was make a really good guess & then did the math, lol. ( @*Slippy* - The only "critical" thing imo for an AC system - is to add up the watts of what may be running at the same time - and make sure the Inverter chosen will cover that. If our earlier guesses had turned out wrong, we could have always added another panel, or battery.) 
Tom brings in all his Dewalts to charge here in the cabin, off the big system. Much easier and less expensive than trying to have a second 'charging' setup for them in his garage. He did wire the garage for AC, and has wires running out to it, but now that his solar is set up out there for lights etc, he has a better option.


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Slippy, are you ever going to put 120V AC in the barn? 240V is nice......

Might want to wire it for that with bigger/thicker wires (12V DC doesn't carry well, loss over footage), then you can run 12V lights off the wiring or use an inverter/generator if you want 120 AC.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

All I need in the barn is a couple of outlets to charge up some battery powered tools, low voltage led overhead interior lights and low voltage led lights at the front entrance. 

OH...One more thing...


maybe an electric chair for convicted tyrants/demtards! :vs_smile:


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Slippy said:


> All I need in the barn is a couple of outlets to charge up some battery powered tools, low voltage led overhead interior lights and low voltage led lights at the front entrance.
> 
> OH...One more thing...
> 
> maybe an electric chair for convicted tyrants/demtards! :vs_smile:


LOL that electric chair is a must!! Wire it to the gen!!

Battery chargers for the tools run on AC, and draw a lot of juice. 
One we use, plugged in to the big system here in the cabin, draws 2.75Amps per hour. It takes 3-4hrs for each battery. To figure out the size of system you need - you'll have to first guess how often you'll need to charge them, and start from there. Dont worry much about the lights; as long as you stick to LED, the draw will be nominal - and your system will have to be big enough for the chargers that the lights wont make much difference.
If I may ask... do you want to charge them in the barn for convenience - or is it a 'backup' system incase no power in the house?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

1ST... we need to know the amperage of the devices you want to power and how much they will be used..

IE... how many amps will you need?

if you will need 300 amps per day then build your set up to be 3-4 times that to account for cloudy days

you need to have enough batteries to run the system for 4 days and enough panels to charge the batteries in one day.....


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

newpowa has some great prices on solar panel... I have a code to get a discount you can use

batteries cold clime use gel not flooded

some people hook all panels to one controller..others use several controllers connecting several panels to different batteries

DO NOT charge or draw load from just one battery.... connect charge to + on one battery and - on a different one the other end of the batteries


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

MountainGirl said:


> LOL that electric chair is a must!! Wire it to the gen!!
> 
> Battery chargers for the tools run on AC, and draw a lot of juice.
> One we use, plugged in to the big system here in the cabin, draws 2.75Amps per hour. It takes 3-4hrs for each battery. To figure out the size of system you need - you'll have to first guess how often you'll need to charge them, and start from there. Dont worry much about the lights; as long as you stick to LED, the draw will be nominal - and your system will have to be big enough for the chargers that the lights wont make much difference.
> If I may ask... do you want to charge them in the barn for convenience - or is it a 'backup' system incase no power in the house?


Thanks MountainGirl, great info!

On the battery powered tools, I would like to be able to charge some tools for convenience but mainly as a back up. If that is a deal killer for my 1st Solar Power System than no worries.

Mainly I want to have some light in the barn to get some projects done that I now have to do in my carport/garage shop especially in the winter when we lose sunlight early.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

Slippy, you are a prepper. Why not start a solar electric system for your barn that you can expand and improve so that it can also become an effective backup to your generators. Here I have a small gas generator, a small diesel generator, and a solar system. 3 independent means of supplying power is good!


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Slippy said:


> Thanks MountainGirl, great info!
> 
> On the battery powered tools, I would like to be able to charge some tools for convenience but mainly as a back up. If that is a deal killer for my 1st Solar Power System than no worries.
> 
> Mainly I want to have some light in the barn to get some projects done that I now have to do in my carport/garage shop especially in the winter when we lose sunlight early.


Nothing is a deal killer whatsoever  It's just a matter of figuring out what makes the most sense!
Unless you have a fair sized solar system in the barn - it makes more sense to charge the tool batts in the house.
If you want to be able to also charge them up in the barn... you sure can put in a system to do just that.

@Chiefster23 has a good suggestion - about expanding. What you might maybe could do is - Lights First.

Get a panel - 100w would do - and mount it so that you could add more panels down the road if you want.
Get a charge controller
Wire in a blocking diode
(Or, get a Solar Kit from some place that has all that plug&play ready for you) 
Get a 12V deep cycle battery.
Buy the 12V LED shop lights that you like, wire them in where you want them, wire a switch near the door or wherever, wire everything together!
Bada bing bada boom, let there be light!

Then..now or later.. add more panels, add more batteries

Run another wire from your battery bank to an Inverter for AC things, wire from there to the AC wall outlets, plug in to your heart's desire!

Ok - there's a bit more to this last part, and different configurations/components, (you'll want a meter to keep an eye on things, a combiner box to hook the panels together, heavy cables to combine your batteries, fuses, shut-off switches, etc)

I just wanted to show you how you can do all this later (or now) for your tool battery chargers, if you want!

FYI: My Chalet AC system has one 100w panel, one battery, a 300w Inverter, a cheapy meter, and a special plug running through the wall so I can charge up the batt with my car, if needed. My only load is a Crane radio that pulls 8watts LOL that I let run all night, I like music while I sleep. So far, the batt dropped to 90% only once when I forgot to brush the snow off the panel for a few days.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

150 Watt Panels are pretty inexpensive

get a 105 amp hour deep cell gel batter

controllers are affordable


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> 150 Watt Panels are pretty inexpensive
> 
> get a 105 amp hour deep cell gel batter
> 
> controllers are affordable


Agree. Mine's an Interstate AGM deep-cycle. Spendy but worth it up here remote. Sealed because it's inside the Chalet and that's a no-no for lead acid. 
Plus, I like the no maintenance part too. :tango_face_wink:


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Sizing a system would be a helluva lot easier if we could know beforehand what our 'power requirements' would actually be. Oh - it's easy enough to calc the numbers, etc; but who knows what we'll run for how long each day? So what we did, was make a really good guess & then did the math, lol. ( @*Slippy* - The only "critical" thing imo for an AC system - is to add up the watts of what may be running at the same time - and make sure the Inverter chosen will cover that. If our earlier guesses had turned out wrong, we could have always added another panel, or battery.)
> Tom brings in all his Dewalts to charge here in the cabin, off the big system. Much easier and less expensive than trying to have a second 'charging' setup for them in his garage. He did wire the garage for AC, and has wires running out to it, but now that his solar is set up out there for lights etc, he has a better option.


Yep, do the math, you can't fool physics 

I killed 8 Trojan T-105's trying to do that, basically. The first bank of 4 (2 in series for 12v, and a second string in parallel) inside two years at the BOL, and the next bank of 4 I got over the learning curve *a bit*, and got about 4 years use out of that bank. Who knew that a little 12" 72w oscillating fan running 24 hours a day needed almost 2 kilowatts a day?!? (lol). Drawing too much too often, taking them below 50% charge too much, took years off their life.

A battery bank is only as good as the worst battery in it (the worst one drags the others down to it's level), so adding new batteries to a bank with older ones usually isn't recommended. I guess I am basing this more on an off-grid home type solution and not so much on a barn/garage. But still, my suggestion would be to live within the constraints of the size system that you buy/build to get the max life, or be prepared to replace the batteries a lot more frequently.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Crunch said:


> Yep, do the math, you can't fool physics
> 
> I killed 8 Trojan T-105's trying to do that, basically. The first bank of 4 (2 in series for 12v, and a second string in parallel) inside two years at the BOL, and the next bank of 4 I got over the learning curve *a bit*, and got about 4 years use out of that bank. Who knew that a little 12" 72w oscillating fan running 24 hours a day needed almost 2 kilowatts a day?!? (lol). Drawing too much too often, taking them below 50% charge too much, took years off their life.
> 
> A battery bank is only as good as the worst battery in it (the worst one drags the others down to it's level), so adding new batteries to a bank with older ones usually isn't recommended. I guess I am basing this more on an off-grid home type solution and not so much on a barn/garage. But still, my suggestion would be to live within the constraints of the size system that you buy/build to get the max life, or be prepared to replace the batteries a lot more frequently.


Ouch, losing your bank twice!

If/when we need to replace ours.. we might just go back to a primitive lifestyle.










Did you see the thread I just bumped up?

https://www.prepperforums.net/forum/alternative-energy-wind-solar-hydro-etc/90673-our-off-grid-system-life.html


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## Crunch (Dec 12, 2019)

MountainGirl said:


> Ouch, losing your bank twice!
> 
> If/when we need to replace ours.. we might just go back to a primitive lifestyle.
> 
> ...


Yes on both, 2 banks killed (BOL) and I did see your post. Hadn't seen it before, will definitely be reading but the dinner bell is ringing so likely tomorrow. Those are Rolls/Surrette batts right? Great minds again


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Crunch said:


> Yes on both, 2 banks killed (BOL) and I did see your post. Hadn't seen it before, will definitely be reading but the dinner bell is ringing so likely tomorrow. Those are Rolls/Surrette batts right? Great minds again


Yeppers & expensive little puppies they are LOL
Spent the last of our money on the deep well hand pump.
Wont live without water. 
Enjoy your dinner!


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## RubberDuck (May 27, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> Yeppers & expensive little puppies they are LOL
> Spent the last of our money on the deep well hand pump.
> Wont live without water.
> Enjoy your dinner!


What do you have for a deep well hand pump and how deep is it good for?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

RubberDuck said:


> What do you have for a deep well hand pump and how deep is it good for?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I went with the Baker. It's good to 200'.









https://www.axmen.com/baker-deep-well-hand-pump-w-syphon-spout-11hd.html

The well is drilled to just over 200', pumphead on the hand system is at 180', the pipe runs down the same casing along side the main system's pipe <-the main's pumphead is at 190'.

Our static level is around 45-47'..so the pumping isn't too hard; it takes about 5 good pulls to get the flow coming.


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

deleted


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## Elvis (Jun 22, 2018)

Damn, Looks like Mountain Girl and Crunch have some serious muscles. Those Rolls 6 CS batteries weigh 342 lbs each. Heck of a job lifting those onto a shelf.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Elvis said:


> Damn, Looks like Mountain Girl and Crunch have some serious muscles. Those Rolls 6 CS batteries weigh 342 lbs each. Heck of a job lifting those onto a shelf.


Took two big men to place them...but I built the rack.  Used 4x4 posts throughout; figured we needed something beefy to hold over two ton of amps LOL. I put extra bracing under the floor in that area, too. So far nothings moved.


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