# Took a huge ugly Kizer and polished the edge to 5.4 million grit.



## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Kizer makes good knives, the parts are shipped to hand assemblers. But this one was ugly, and while most of their knives go for 200 to 400 dollars, this one cost 47 bucks at clearance. So I bought three. I went over all of them, two were perfect, and one had some flat spots on the edge. Let me tell you about S35VN, it takes every stone in Japan to get the thing sharp. Of course then you have to polish.

Ken Schwartz got me hooked on his 3.2 million grit nanodiamond slurry. Of course, he then suggested I also try his 5.4 million grit slurry. I polished with every piece of glass I had and all the pastes and Alumina grits. Then finally I started the 3.2 slurry to get all the whisker marks off the knife. The 5.4 is always spooky. You've worked for a few days and it all could be lost with scratches.

But look at the bevels I the knife. I like them shiny, but look at the reflection of the Queen. Not a ripple not a flaw.

My guess is that this knife was made for large game animals.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

If 5.3mill uses a 3nm poly-diamond that produces scratches even a light microscope can't see, why bother?
To the human eye, eventually a mirror is a mirror.
In terms of real world use, what does this blade cut that a 3k grit polish won't cut?


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> Kizer makes good knives, the parts are shipped to hand assemblers. But this one was ugly, and while most of their knives go for 200 to 400 dollars, this one cost 47 bucks at clearance. So I bought three. I went over all of them, two were perfect, and one had some flat spots on the edge. Let me tell you about S35VN, it takes every stone in Japan to get the thing sharp. Of course then you have to polish.
> 
> Ken Schwartz got me hooked on his 3.2 million grit nanodiamond slurry. Of course, he then suggested I also try his 5.4 million grit slurry. I polished with every piece of glass I had and all the pastes and Alumina grits. Then finally I started the 3.2 slurry to get all the whisker marks off the knife. The 5.4 is always spooky. You've worked for a few days and it all could be lost with scratches.
> 
> ...


Or those who buy to impress others.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Seriously? I think the grits were designed to prepare fish. If you look at Japanese chefs both breaking down whole fish or blocking it for sushi or sashimi, it looks like they demand clean cuts.

The stones and many of the polishes are all imported from Japan.

Besides, it's a job to polish S35VN, CPM-M4 and 3V. We polishers like to brag, too. LOL


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> Seriously? I think the grits were designed to prepare fish. If you look at Japanese chefs both breaking down whole fish or blocking it for sushi or sashimi, it looks like they demand clean cuts.
> 
> The stones and many of the polishes are all imported from Japan.
> 
> Besides, it's a job to polish S35VN, CPM-M4 and 3V. We polishers like to brag, too. LOL


But I'm not a Jap chief, not even a chef. So I can just use a regular knife.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Seriously? I think the grits were designed to prepare fish. If you look at Japanese chefs both breaking down whole fish or blocking it for sushi or sashimi, it looks like they demand clean cuts.
> 
> The stones and many of the polishes are all imported from Japan.
> 
> Besides, it's a job to polish S35VN, CPM-M4 and 3V. We polishers like to brag, too. LOL


Japanese knives finish out at around 8,000 grit.

Is this more of just a hobby thing that improves a skill? Or does all that effort to reach an imperceptible finish achieve a more functional result?


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Japanese knives finish out at around 8,000 grit.
> 
> Is this more of just a hobby thing that improves a skill? Or does all that effort to reach an imperceptible finish achieve a more functional result?


But the world leading knife guru said 5.4 million grit. He knows all.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Japanese knives finish out at around 8,000 grit.
> 
> Is this more of just a hobby thing that improves a skill? Or does all that effort to reach an imperceptible finish achieve a more functional result?


But the world leading knife guru said 5.4 million grit. He knows all. I'm sure he has counted the tiny scratch marks to verify this many times.

But my count varied by 500,000 + or -2 scratch mark


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Kauboy said:


> Is this more of just a hobby thing that improves a skill? Or does all that effort to reach an imperceptible finish achieve a more functional result?


The Japanese put a lot of pride in their "plating" of food. I think that sharper knives, like faster cars and better computers, were just a natural evolving of modern cutlery. I watched a YouTube video on chefs preparing fish, and their knives 'glided' across the grain or raw fish.

You mention 8,000 grit as a finish for Japanese knives. I have Japanese stones that go to 30,000 grit, pastes and slurries that take it farther and smoother than historic stones. Now, I have Japanese natural stones (called Jnats) that are quarried stones more in line with the Samurai era. But then, there was a lot of soft iron in traditional swords so that they would not break hitting an opponent's armor. These stones don't get an edge as keen as the modern variety, but they do provide a "warmer tone" to modern steel and have a beauty of their own.

But I will admit, I wanted to push the steel, and see just how good I could take an edge.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I still love my Forschner Victonox 6" curved boner. That dude can cut steaks off a catfishes lips. 
https://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Curved-Fibrox-Boning-Flexible/dp/B0019WQDOU


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

*@bigwheel*, it's nice to see so many members interested in cutlery. I looked at the link you sent and I noticed that the edge had a polish to it. It does help with slicing.

I also admit that I have a huge range of polish to use when repairing/sharpening a knife fore a client. I can even create a sarp yet rough edge the Japanese refer to as "kirinaga." And using the differing stones and pastes, I can take a knife from 1,000 grit to 5 million. The client tells me what he/she wants. I do the highly polished knives for forums, because lots of the guys at KimberTalk just like to look at highly polished edges.

The good part of this is that a few of the guys over there started polishing their own knives. One of them actually decided to become a professional polisher and has a shop in Montana.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> You mention 8,000 grit as a finish for Japanese knives. I have Japanese stones that go to 30,000 grit, pastes and slurries that take it farther and smoother than historic stones. Now, I have Japanese natural stones (called Jnats) that are quarried stones more in line with the Samurai era. But then, there was a lot of soft iron in traditional swords so that they would not break hitting an opponent's armor. These stones don't get an edge as keen as the modern variety, but they do provide a "warmer tone" to modern steel and have a beauty of their own.
> 
> But I will admit, I wanted to push the steel, and see just how good I could take an edge.


The fact that the stones and slurries exist, but I can't find a commercial Japanese knife with that high of a grit edge, kinda proves my point. At a certain sharpness, more work becomes impractical for usefulness, but hobbyists still want to do more.

Nothing wrong with wanting to push your own skills. I just don't personally see the appeal in a knife with that level sharpness. The first thing it cuts will dull the polish.
I just need a reliable blade that cuts well and sharpens easily.
I'm a simple man.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

That's why I mentioned that their edges are defined by them, not by me. If they want kirinaga there probably is a good reason. Usually it's about guys working around wet rope.

And I sharpen for everyone, not just chefs. My wife 'liberated' my Hattori, and even she asked for "sharp' not polished. She's afraid to cut herself, no kidding.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Kauboy, you will not find extreme levels on knives--even expensive Japanese knives--when they are sold NIB. That Kizer is technically a pocketknife, and sharper than most professional cooks would be using.

Speaking of the Kizer, a client called and asked for it. Because I had carried it once or twice, I found little whisker marks on the bevel. I spent most of the morning first polishing out the flaws and then replacing the decorative finish--which also makes the edge insane.

As for Japanese edges, I was the polisher for The Madison Club. It was/is a fancy restaurant where you first paid to be a member, then paid for your dinner.

I worked primarily for "Chef Dan." He was a razor fan, and used a real-deal yanagiba, a knife that is concave on the left side, and chisel grind on the right. This leaves a very thin edge. If I didn't polish that edge to levels beyond any other restaurant, he wouldn't sign a script so I could get paid. I'll come half way with you, Chef Dan had four sous-chefs and ten cooks. He did not need to slice vegetables or block fish. But he had to have an edge that would sit on top the fish, and when pulled backwards once the knife cut right down to the cutting board.

Here's my point. He was the client. He sent me a sous-chef, it was a woman who had--and preferred to use--a bone handled hunting knife.

Yes, she got a polished edge because she was also a client and got what she wanted.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Here's how odd a client can be. This is a nine dollar knife. Take a wild guess how much the polish cost--even in 2010.


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