# shmita year the 2015 Collapse



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

13 Sept 2015


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Why dat?


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Search it.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blo...act-date-for-the-dollar-collapse-harbing.html


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I read that book "The Harbinger" when it first came out and it scared the hell out of me. I need to go back and reread it because I have forgotten large parts of it.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Here is what gets me.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the exact day predicted in Daniel
Israel became a nation again in one day
Israel has fought and won several wars against larger nations
jews continue to leave other countries and go home
mark twain visited there and said it was a barren waste land...now it is an exporter of fruit. 
---------------------------------------------------
What would have to happen for a one world ruler to take charge???? One world currency???


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Inor said:


> I read that book "The Harbinger" when it first came out and it scared the hell out of me. I need to go back and reread it because I have forgotten large parts of it.


We watched the movie in church over two sundays... Most shows like that I POO POO at...but there comes a point where you can not push aside the *coincidences.*

when tom dashle stood in congress and said "we will rebuild" quoting the bible where the Jews were rebelling against God...it freaked me out


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

This Jewish year (runs Sept/Oct 12 months) is also one of tetrad blood moons falling on Feasts of the Lord.....in past instances of this occurring (which is very rare)....significant things have happened to the Jews/Israel.

We'll just have to wait and see about the economic collapse happening during our "fall" next year. I believe something significant may well happen around Pesach (Passover) this year...but it could be as late as Shavuot. Or, it could be absolutely nothing at all. We'll see.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> We watched the movie in church over two sundays... Most shows like that I POO POO at...but there comes a point where you can not push aside the *coincidences.*
> 
> when tom dashle stood in congress and said "we will rebuild" quoting the bible where the Jews were rebelling against God...it freaked me out


The cedar tree was what got me. I does make you think yes?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Inor said:


> The cedar tree was what got me. I does make you think yes?


That hit me hard also... it does make you think...


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Lord knows I believe in God, but others have professed dates of his actions. Most of them quite wrong. Not sure if you guys realize it or not but the dollar today's buys as much gold as it did 6-7 years ago, buys more oil, and is the ONLY world reserve currency.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

We cut off contact at sukkot and did not expect to come back this year. That is what bothers me about it. It is the same dates we thought "here or not" by, except it being next year. 
But, it is also written "sanctify G-d himself and let him be your awe and dread" so really, we can only speculate.
Still, we are gone after sukkot next year.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Sukkot dates for the next few years
2015:Sept 27 (sundown)-Oct 4
2016: Oct 16 (sundown)- 23
2017: Oct 4 (sundown) -11
Jewish calendar date begins at sundown of the night befoirehand, thus all holiday observances begin at sundown on the secular dates listed, with the following day being the first full day of the holiday. Jewish calendar dates conclude at nightfall!


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

What's funny is that my wife and I came to this date at about the same time as well. She's a Christian and a believer in the Shmita. As an atheist, obviously I'm not. But looking at the current economic woes, mixed with our political environment and the current asshat in the oval office, I think we're going to crash, or BE CRASHED, at about that same time.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Whenever a date is set or mentioned,,, I treat it like a weather forecast... how good has the weatherman been some are better then others

The myan calendar thing, I thought was funny

The Shmita date...I take a little more seriously.. I am not going to sell all my baseball cards and buy an underground bunker - But I will keeping eye open and start getting more food etc as we approach that date

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for* signs*, and for* seasons*, and for *days*, and *years*:


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

jro1 said:


> Sukkot dates for the next few years
> 2015:Sept 27 (sundown)-Oct 4
> 2016: Oct 16 (sundown)- 23
> 2017: Oct 4 (sundown) -11
> Jewish calendar date begins at sundown of the night befoirehand, thus all holiday observances begin at sundown on the secular dates listed, with the following day being the first full day of the holiday. Jewish calendar dates conclude at nightfall!


Take a week off and camp with the family, and The Feast Is On.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I'll believe it when I see it. There have been a million predictions of the end of the world, so far all wrong. Someone is bound to get it right eventually merely because there is a prediction to cover every date and time.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> I'll believe it when I see it. There have been a million predictions of the end of the world, so far all wrong. Someone is bound to get it right eventually merely because there is a prediction to cover every date and time.


There have not been a million predictions....that is hyperbole at its best

There are not predictions to cover every date and time - that is just wrong

As of Today no Bible prophecy has been wrong...I will go with that.

When a 7 year peace treaty is signed/confirmed - I will be watchful
When the Jews rebuild the temple - I will be more watchful
When after about 3 1/2 years the temple is desecrate- I will know that the time is close


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> There have not been a million predictions....that is hyperbole at its best
> 
> There are not predictions to cover every date and time - that is just wrong
> 
> ...


In about the 1840's a guy named Miller founded what became the Seventh Day Adventist church based on his deduction of bible prophecy to mean the world was ending in I believe the 1850's. There is someone on a street corner somewhere saying the world will end tomorrow, or next week, or next year. They planted a pine tree at the site of 9/11 and it died so the world will end next year? The connections of events to the prophecy is tenuous at best. I do not read these prophecy in my bible, much of it is just one Rabbi's interpretation assuming that as it applied to Israel thousands of years ago now applies to the US.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> In about the 1840's a guy named Miller founded what became the Seventh Day Adventist church based on his deduction of bible prophecy to mean the world was ending in I believe the 1850's. There is someone on a street corner somewhere saying the world will end tomorrow, or next week, or next year. They planted a pine tree at the site of 9/11 and it died so the world will end next year? The connections of events to the prophecy is tenuous at best. I do not read these prophecy in my bible, much of it is just one Rabbi's interpretation assuming that as it applied to Israel thousands of years ago now applies to the US.


For folks that are Bereans...and have studied the bible....they know that all the major events in the life of Jesus lined up with Jewish feasts and festivals...a few have not been fulfilled yet....but they will!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------and----------------------

The start of the 70th week
Dan 9:27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

Mat 24:15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, touching the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him; 
2Th 2:2 to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that the day of the Lord is just at hand; 
2Th 2:3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

1Th 5:3 When they are saying, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no wise escape. 
1Th 5:4 * But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief: *
1Th 5:5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness; 
1Th 5:6 so then let us not sleep, as do the rest, but let us watch and be sober.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> In about the 1840's a guy named Miller founded what became the Seventh Day Adventist church based on his deduction of bible prophecy to mean the world was ending in I believe the 1850's. There is someone on a street corner somewhere saying the world will end tomorrow, or next week, or next year. They planted a pine tree at the site of 9/11 and it died so the world will end next year? The connections of events to the prophecy is tenuous at best. I do not read these prophecy in my bible, much of it is just one Rabbi's interpretation assuming that as it applied to Israel thousands of years ago now applies to the US.


OH..and ... the prophecies are not to the USA..they are to the WORLD and Israel most of all... BUT America will be impacted.

the tree...lol..a sycamore tree destroyed by 9/11 was replaced by a evergreen... Isiah 9:10 - They said, "We will replace the broken bricks of our ruins with finished stone, and replant the felled sycamore-fig trees with cedars."


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> OH..and ... the prophecies are not to the USA..they are to the WORLD and Israel most of all... BUT America will be impacted.
> 
> the tree...lol..a sycamore tree destroyed by 9/11 was replaced by a evergreen... Isiah 9:10 - They said, "We will replace the broken bricks of our ruins with finished stone, and replant the felled sycamore-fig trees with cedars."


OK, a sycamore at the site of 9/11 died and was replaced by a fir tree that died. The correlation to biblical prophecy is... Oh I get it Isiah was prophesying about the US and 9/11 because God wanted everything in the bible. Mathew 24:36


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> ...When a 7 year peace treaty is signed/confirmed - I will be watchful
> When the Jews rebuild the temple - I will be more watchful
> When after about 3 1/2 years the temple is desecrate- I will know that the time is close


It will be too late then, the rapture will have already happened.

The last prophesy that needed to be fulfilled for the return of Christ was the creation of the Jewish state. 
Something certainly will happen to the USA to remove it from the world's front stage, there is no plausible reference to us in in the book of Revelation. When this will happen, one cannot say for sure but, it WILL happen.

Psalm 2:
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

Jude 1:
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

2nd Peter 3:
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

... you get the idea.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Boss Dog said:


> It will be too late then, the rapture will have already happened.


The Catching away..can not happen until the Man of sin is revealed....

Jesus in Matthew 24 lays out the time line...

If there is a verse or verses that show a pre-tribulation rapture...I would like to see them please


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> OK, a sycamore at the site of 9/11 died and was replaced by a fir tree that died. The correlation to biblical prophecy is... Oh I get it Isiah was prophesying about the US and 9/11 because God wanted everything in the bible. Mathew 24:36


You lost me on the first part..

Matt 24:36.. no man knows the hour... not even Jesus...why..because it is like a Jewish Wedding...The groom has gone away and will not return until the father tells him it is time.... BUT - understand there are things that must happen first.... ANd the BRIDE knew the groom was coming HOW... because the friends of the GROOM would be shouting and yelling as they approached

here is what will happen

Mat 24:29 Immediately *after the tribulation of those days* shall *the sun be darkened,* and the *moon shall not give her light*, and the *stars shall fall *from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 
Mat 24:30 And *then shall appear the sign of the Son of man* in heaven: and then shall *all the tribes of the earth mourn*, and *they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory*. 
Mat 24:31 And *he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet*, and *they shall gather together his elect from the four winds*, from one end of heaven to the other.

if you can get the gathering before the tribulation and before the sign and before the sun darkens....please let me know how

and here the souls under the throne are told to wait until their fellow servants are killed...and this is AFTER seal 1,2,3,4,5,

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

and then

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, *These are they which came out of great tribulation*, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

where did they come from...

I have never seen or heard a good defense for the pre-trib rapture


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I am sorry, but if anyone thinks they know the exact date when the world will end they are deluded or being led down a wrong path theologically.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Here is what gets me.
> 
> Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the exact day predicted in Daniel
> Israel became a nation again in one day
> ...


Maine Marine: here is the cliff notes version of your answer, . . . or at least as I have been led to believe.

Stay with me, . . . this goes quick.

1. Revelation 6 thru 11 is the chronological order of events from the "beginning of the end" to the "end of the end".

2. During this time (as always has been) God will bless those who bless Israel, and curse those who curse Israel.

3. In the 4th seal, . . . 1/4 of the world's population will be killed off in a very short period of time, . . . all of them will be sinners, . . . and will go to hell (read Rev. 6:8).

4. In response, . . . a glib tonged seducer will begin his quest for world domination, . . . probably a muslim, . . . blaming the Christians and the Jews for the aforementioned deaths.

5. The rest of the chapter will come to pass.

NOW, . . . here is where the fun begins. Read Chapter 7 verse 1: Revelation 7:1 (KJV) 
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

6. In Genesis 8:1, . . . God invented wind and set it in motion. Here in Rev 7:1, . . . He stops it. No more wind, . . . no more rain clouds, . . . no more snow, . . . no more tornadoes, . . . etc. Study it out, . . . look at it hard, . . . check the dictionary, . . . the words used are for the wind and trees and all just as we know those words in common use.

7. In about a year, . . . the only people still surviving will be on the sea coasts of all nations, . . . living on desalinated water, . . . you can buy Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, and Tennessee for maybe 10 bucks, . . . because nothing lives there, . . . everything is dead, . . . and will be until after the 7th trumpet of God.

8. This of course will also be blamed upon the Christians and Jews, . . . hence the persecution, . . . the great falling away mentioned in 2 Thess. 2nd chapter.

9. His rise to power will be on the backs of any and all who join him in persecuting Christians and Jews.

May God bless,
Dwight

PS: If anyone PM's you with those verses outlining the pre-trib rapture, . . . send me a copy, . . . I've read the Bible at least 10 times all the way through, . . . I missed em too.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jimb1972 said:


> I am sorry, but if anyone thinks they know the exact date when the world will end they are deluded or being led down a wrong path theologically.


I agree. Who here is naming exact dates


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> The Catching away..can not happen until the Man of sin is revealed....
> 
> Jesus in Matthew 24 lays out the time line...
> 
> If there is a verse or verses that show a pre-tribulation rapture...I would like to see them please


Boss Dog


> 2 Thessalonians 2:
> 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
> 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
> 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
> ...


Verses 3 & 4 reference the tribulation, when the anti-Christ reveals himself and seizes power. 
Verses 6 & 7 are talking about the Holy Spirit who holds back the anti-Christ from taking power until his time. 
When the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from earth, the church must go with him. It is promised in Revelation 3:10.



> Revelation 3:
> 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Also see;



> John 14:
> 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
> 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
> 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
> ...


To leave Christians on earth for any part of the tribulation, God would have to break a lot of promises.



> 1 Corinthians 3:
> 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
> 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
> 
> ...


Because Christians are the temple of God, the Holy Spirit who dwells within, cannot be taken off earth without the Christians going with him.



> Hebrews 13:
> 5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


Christians cannot be left on earth to suffer any part of the tribulation or God's promise is not true.



> Revelation 4:
> 1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


When God called John up to "shew thee things which must be hereafter" it was with a "voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet". The trumpet of the bridegroom (Jesus) come to take his bride away (The Church). The church is not mentioned again during the entire telling of the tribulation, in fact not until chapter 22. In a traditional Jewish wedding, the Groom and the Bride stay in the bridal chamber for 7 days (the 7 years of the tribulation).



> Revelation 19:
> 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
> 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.


The door of Heaven is opened after 7 years and Christ and his Bride emerge. 
Matthew 24 is describing this, the second coming of Christ who is coming to judge and make war on the rebellious of earth, not the rapture. The armies of Heaven following Jesus are the saints of Heaven, Christ's Bride, which has been safely tucked away with the Groom (Jesus) during the whole tribulation.



> 2 Thessalonians 2:
> 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
> 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
> 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Unfortunately, those who have heard the Gospel but not accepted it before the rapture cannot be saved. There will be no getting right with God after you see and recognize the anti-Christ. When God sends you strong delusion, that you believe a lie, you are lost forever.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm sorry it took so long. All my notes and files are on another computer that died months ago and this one is a handicapped Vista model that still has corporate administration limits on it. What a pain. I'm going to wipe it and start over soon with Windows 7. 
I hope I was clear enough in my meaning. Having worked 3rd shift, I am way past bedtime and the kids will be home in about 2 hrs. Maybe I can sleep a little this evening. 

Please know that this is not an attack on any one person, it is simply my take on the Bible.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

The only thing that will ever destroy LAWKI is MAN or a cosmic event. Not God, or a God, or several Gods. Only Man, the sun, or space...plain and simple. People will of course choose to correlate destruction or events to prophecies, biblical and otherwise...

Any MAN MADE disaster is survivable...and all but a few natural disasters are survivable as well. What am I saying? We all prep to survive in austere or even LAWKI changing events...but if you believe its a God thing, or a religion thing, more power to you. More than likely it was caused by man, so we "the prepared" will survive as long as possible. "Who done it?" is irrelevant. You are preparing, take comfort in that.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

I agree "who done it is irrelevant" to the creature enduring, but most older religious texts of any merit do base predictions on "the sun, comets, nature" so I guess looking deeper is always the thing to do.
I have a hard time blaming G-d for what is most likely obvious priestcraft. But I am very confident it is going to go very bad fast. Whether john's prophecy is being "acted out" or not is something I bet all would delight in. Actually getting gov to say "no, that one really isn't us and we cannot explain it" - would be a hoot!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Boss Dog said:


> Verses 6 & 7 are talking about the Holy Spirit who holds back the anti-Christ from taking power until his time.
> When the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from earth, the church must go with him. It is promised in Revelation 3:10.


Please show me how the Holy Spirit is hold back the anti-Christ??? Because I am pretty sure that the Angel Michael is the restrainer

some hints...He who restrainer - can not be the CHURCH..the church is ALWAYS referred to as female
The holy spirit indwells believers - and there well be believers here right up until the very end....they go into the 1,000 year rule

PAUSE and think on this

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> People will of course choose to correlate destruction or events to prophecies, biblical and otherwise...


Who are these people that are going to choose to correlate events to prophecies.... I am wondering how they will make the sun dark, burn up 1/4 of the green grass, turn the water to blood, cause a earthquake in Israel, allow the jews to rebuild the temple...

OH AND... there can only be ONE ALMIGHTY GOD... there may be many gods..but only one can be ALMIGHTY.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Who are these people that are going to choose to correlate events to prophecies...._*Most people that are religion based, regardless of which religion. This way they can say when something happens, "see, I told ya so."*_
> 
> I am wondering how they will make the sun dark...*THEY will not do anything. The sun will become a "red giant" as it consumes its fuel in a few billion years and burn out on its own. No outside factor causes this. It's a fact of cosmic life witnessed frequently through hubble.*
> 
> ...


Answered.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Answered.


lol... By definition... if one god can not destroy the other god then that god is not almighty or if a god could be destroyed by another god

Let me suggest this to you..if you see the following things happen - Start giving Jesus Christ a Chance

A "Seven" year peace treaty (not 8 or 9 or 6 years) 
Jews allowed to rebuild the temple
3 1/2 years +- after peace treaty..some leader stands in the temple and declares himself God.
Sun grows dark
moon grows dark
Followers of Jesus Christ disappear


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> The only thing that will ever destroy LAWKI is MAN or a cosmic event. Not God, or a God, or several Gods. Only Man, the sun, or space...plain and simple. People will of course choose to correlate destruction or events to prophecies, biblical and otherwise...
> 
> Any MAN MADE disaster is survivable...and all but a few natural disasters are survivable as well. What am I saying? We all prep to survive in austere or even LAWKI changing events...but if you believe its a God thing, or a religion thing, more power to you. More than likely it was caused by man, so we "the prepared" will survive as long as possible. "Who done it?" is irrelevant. You are preparing, take comfort in that.


Answer me this then... In Revelation 8:9 it says "And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed." Huge numbers of fish have been washing up all over the world dead, and it has experts wondering.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

firefighter72 said:


> Answer me this then... In Revelation 8:9 it says "And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed." Huge numbers of fish have been washing up all over the world dead, and it has experts wondering.


The PH balance of ocean water is a critical delicate balanced number in the oceanic lifeblood. Simple changes in acidity can kill ocean species by the millions. Also, acidity can chew through metal, wood, etc. Sub-oceanic volcanic activity can displace sulfuric acid by the billions of displaces tons throughout the oceans/waters of the nearby systems. Ship hulls will erode/weaken/disentigrate in proximity to increased sulfuric acidity levels. The modern Navy knows this and builds ship hulls accordingly.

http://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/water-quality/ph/

Sudden changes in PH from volcanic breakthorugh of ocean floor from tectonic shift (or man-made disasters like oil, or radiation, spills) are the cause for almost ALL oceanic killings in recent history.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

The critical part of the events heralding the EOTWAWKI, . . . is the God given order of the events.

Yes, there have been droughts, . . . "stars" fall from the sky, . . . and other phenomena that seems to be part of the end times, . . . but it is out of order. God specifically gave us an order to the way it will be done, . . . and He has not missed it yet when He gave us a prophesy to watch for. Man has often missed it, . . . but He didn't.

Read Revelation 6 thru 11, . . . cross reference and correlate with Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21: there is a pattern of events that starts with the 1st seal and ends with the last trumpet.

THAT, . . . is the event progression, . . . telling us chronological order of the 14 events that will be noticeable, understandable, and for the most part, . . . broadcast around the world on the "news" networks.

Yes, . . . there are 7 bowls of wrath, . . . but they are interspersed (in their own chronological order) between the first seal and the last trumpet.

If you want a really good understanding of the End Times: treat Revelation 6 thru 11 as one of those movies or TV shows we have all watched where we get to see a lot of the plot, . . . events, . . . etc. but then up on the screen comes the legend "14 days earlier" or something to that effect.

THEN, . . . the producer and director lead you through a labyrinth of details that makes sense out of the first few minutes you saw earlier. That trick of story telling is based directly on the way the End Times story is told in the Bible.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

ADDENDUM: I didn't want to take away from the path of the above thread, . . . but I wanted to share another piece of critical understanding.

We all recognize and use the theory of "Critical Questions", . . . designed to extract information from an errant teenager, . . . to a sly and cunning salesman, . . . or just some loud mouthed tale fabricator.

We ask pertinent questions, . . . ones that will give answers that will make the difference.

To those who would make fun of the Bible prophesies, . . . all we have to do is go back to the day of Jesus' trial. There everyone assumed Him to be the son of Joseph the carpenter. He was also assumed to having a total Galilean background, . . . and assumed no doubt to have been born there.

The fact that those assumptions were never questioned, . . . is what contributed seriously to the crucifixion of Christ.

Had just one of them asked the "Critical Question": "Where were you born?", . . . the whole process would have taken a different turn. Man in his presupposed and assumed intelligence, . . . stumbled over one of the most well known, . . . most basic, . . . most easily understood, . . . and most easily verified FACTS that would have made a difference.

In our "understanding" of the religious tentacles attached to the end times, . . . "Critical Questions" must be a part of our procedure and progression, . . . or we will wind up as did those who slew Christ.

Various historical pieces tell us that Judas hanged himself, . . . Pilate later became converted to Christianity, lost his position, was later banished from Rome to Gaul, and lived out his last years trying to win souls for Christ, . . . the high priest, Caiphas became so depressed when he realized his error that he too committed suicide, . . . and as Jesus prophesied at the beginning of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, . . . the temple site would be ravaged to the point the temple would be destroyed so that not two of the stones would still stand together. Titus took care of that in 70AC.

Think critically, . . . verify your assumptions, . . . don't believe the preacher, . . . believe the Bible. It is the single most important piece of your "prepping".

May God bless, 
Dwight


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## Titan6 (May 19, 2013)

IMHO not to sound snotty but the good Lord will come when HE is ready and I don't think it was intended to be predicted, I always looked at prediction of Armageddon as a surrender of mankind's time here on earth, I lived a civil servant life and tried to live a clean Karma and good willed spirited life using the Almighty's guidance how I interpreted it, I think the skillful art of predicting the 2nd coming would actually defeat the whole purpose of living a Christian life if you had a exact date then you could do what you wanted til a month out then all of sudden see the light and be born again and ask forgiveness thus taking out the faith factor.. I think the Almighty intended to be there to let you know I will be coming one day and you better have been ready when I come. The Lord comes to us in his way differently to each one of us how we accept him and how we serve him.. By no means is this a sermon nor am i preaching to anyone nor am i explaining how anyone here reading this should live their live nor is it a judgment on anyone's religion belief its how I lived my life.. Always try to do the right thing never know when the big guy will be watching or coming! This what I have taught my children and what I believe..


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Titan6 said:


> IMHO not to sound snotty but the good Lord will come when HE is ready and I don't think it was intended to be predicted, I always looked at prediction of Armageddon as a surrender of mankind's time here on earth, I lived a civil servant life and tried to live a clean Karma and good willed spirited life using the Almighty's guidance how I interpreted it, I think the skillful art of predicting the 2nd coming would actually defeat the whole purpose of living a Christian life if you had a exact date then you could do what you wanted til a month out then all of sudden see the light and be born again and ask forgiveness thus taking out the faith factor.. I think the Almighty intended to be there to let you know I will be coming one day and you better have been ready when I come. The Lord comes to us in his way differently to each one of us how we accept him and how we serve him.. By no means is this a sermon nor am i preaching to anyone nor am i explaining how anyone here reading this should live their live nor is it a judgment on anyone's religion belief its how I lived my life.. Always try to do the right thing never know when the big guy will be watching or coming! This what I have taught my children and what I believe..


Actually the Lord (Jesus) will come when his Father tells him.

you keep saying EXACT DATE, EXACT DATE, EXACT DATE... Nobody HERE is predicting an EXACT DATE...

and - you said "you could do what you wanted til a month out then all of sudden see the light and be born again and ask forgiveness thus taking out the faith factor" let me clear that up for you.... before you got married...did you screw around on your future wife up until the day you got married???? IF (that is a BIG IF) you truly love somebody and truly want to make them happy...and in this case IF you really believe that JESUS is GOD.. NOBODY who really believes is going to screw around until the last moment... that is NOT what a person in love does.

I can also tell you THE BIG GUY is ALWAYS watching

AND you say "The Lord comes to us in his way differently to each one of us" can you please prove that??? Because I disagree.

The bible spends a great deal of time...telling us HOW we are to live/worship/Love God, etc.... lets not be scared to tell people what it says.

OH AND Armageddon.... will be the very very very END of the earth as we know it today...many things will happen prior to that

I would love to spend about a week with you in deep study........


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Since you guys are here and obviously well versed with biblical knowledge and religious history and I've answered your questions with valid replies...allow me to pose a question if I may. Also, please do not answer my question...with a question. (*Disclaimer:* I'm not trying to "prove" or "disprove" anything. I'm merely asking for the sake of conversation from those that exercise different view points than my own for my personal benefit.)

*If there is only ONE almighty, who, what, or how was he/she/it created?* 

My thoughts:
It's not reasonable to say "the almighty" was "always there" because that implies infinite. Infinite can not be correlated with something "alive" since nothing (known) lives for an infinite amount of time. If the "almighty" controls, knows, grants, hears, or sees ANYTHING...this implies sentience...or conciousness. This also would infer that the "almighty" is a "living" thing which again...denies infinite. Thus, a true "almighty" must be alive and have been created...and if so, who/what is the creator? OR, the "almighty" is a form of energy which through the laws of thermodynamics do not allow it's destruction as true with ALL other energy. BUT, that would also mean that as the "almighty's" energy changes shape, form, mass, state, etc...that it is not sentience changing the energy, but merely other external energies acting upon it. This means that an "almighty" is nothing more than random changes in the states of infintecimal amounts of energies throughout all known universes and would only affect humanity through randomness...not sentience or design.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

My thoughts:
It's not reasonable to say "the almighty" was "always there" because that implies infinite. 
Answer - infinite has to do with size or quantity... A SPACE OR Quantity... God would be infinite in power... you can never use the word infinite if you can add something... time can not be infinite because you can add a minute, age you can add a year....


Infinite can not be correlated with something "alive" since nothing (known) lives for an infinite amount of time. 
Answer - Infinite can not be correlated with age

If the "almighty" controls, knows, grants, hears, or sees ANYTHING...this implies sentience...or consciousness. 
I agreee

This also would infer that the "almighty" is a "living" thing which again...denies infinite.
I have already shown that this Infinite argument is not valid due to you using the term incorrectly.

Thus, a true "almighty" must be alive and have been created...and if so, who/what is the creator? 
The Law of Causality does not say that everything needs a cause. It says that everything that comes to be needs a cause. God did not come to be. No one made God. He is unmade. As an eternal being, God did not have a beginning,so he *didn't need a cause.

"But wait," the atheist will protest, "if you can have an eternal God, then I can have an eternal universe! After all, if the universe is eternal, then it did not have a cause." Yes, it is logically possible that the universe is eternal and therefore *didn't have a cause. In fact, it is one of only two possibilities: either the universe, or something outside the universe, is eternal. (Since something undeniably exists today, then something must have always existed; we have only two choices: the universe, or something that caused the universe.)

The problem for the atheist is that while it is logically possible that the universe is eternal, it does not seem to be actually possible. For all the scientific and philosophical evidence (SURGE- Second Law, Universe is expanding, Radiation Afterglow, Great galaxy seeds, Einstein's GR-radioactive decay, and the Kalam Cosmological Argument) tells us the universe cannot be eternal. So by ruling out one of the two options, we are left with the only other option-something outside the universe is eternal.

When you get right down to it, there are only two possibilities for anything that exists: either 1) it has always existed and is therefore uncaused, or 2) it had a beginning and was caused by something else (it can't be self-caused, because it would have had to exist already in order to cause anything). According to overwhelming evidence, the universe had a beginning, so it must be caused by something else- by something outside itself. Notice that this conclusion is consistent with theistic religions, but it is not based on those religions- it is based on good reason and evidence. <I borrowed this from Turek

OR, the "almighty" is a form of energy which through the laws of thermodynamics do not allow it's destruction as true with ALL other energy. BUT, that would also mean that as the "almighty's" energy changes shape, form, mass, state, etc...that it is not sentience changing the energy, but merely other external energies acting upon it. This means that an "almighty" is nothing more than random changes in the states of infintecimal amounts of energies throughout all known universes and would only affect humanity through randomness...not sentience or design.

The last part above is a bunch of gobbledegook.... if you can clear the concept up and restate I will answer it


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## Titan6 (May 19, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Actually the Lord (Jesus) will come when his Father tells him.
> 
> you keep saying EXACT DATE, EXACT DATE, EXACT DATE... Nobody HERE is predicting an EXACT DATE...
> 
> ...


Wouldn't happen I don't listen to men when it comes to religion... I read and interpate the bible in my heart not by what other people tell me like my father taught me nor do I tell people or try to explain to people what is the right way to interpate the Lord and his will...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Titan6 said:


> Wouldn't happen I don't listen to men when it comes to religion... I read and interpret the bible in my heart not by what other people tell me like my father taught me nor do I tell people or try to explain to people what is the right way to interpret the Lord and his will...


..if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

I guess God wanted his people to teach others...except for you... you can teach yourself


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> My thoughts:
> It's not reasonable to say "the almighty" was "always there" because that implies infinite.
> Answer - infinite has to do with size or quantity... A SPACE OR Quantity... God would be infinite in power... you can never use the word infinite if you can add something... time can not be infinite because you can add a minute, age you can add a year....
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you have difficulty understanding that...but it's really the basis of my whole question/argument. I can summarize, but it won't really infer the depth of the statement. What it relays is that if "God" were an infinite "energy", then the majority of interactions occuring inside that energy is infinite, but still random in most cases.

This is a VERY vague description of quantum mechanics, I know. Entanglement is still being studied. Einstein HATED quantum because it wasn't "complete" and spent years trying to debunk it. In fact, Einstein died before the results of the "spooky behavior at distance" experiment was concluded. Sadly, Einstein's theory was wrong about the electrons state being decided before the orbit change (the quantum leap). Quantum entanglement was proven to be correct. If this still doesn't make sense, I probably won't be able to put it in a way that would be understood.

maybe this could help if you have some time.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

@smokin04

Quantum anything is unproven guess work and is changing all the time..wait 6 minutes and the theory will change. Please do not use unproven theories in a debate as important as Eternity.

I have to go out for the company Christmas party so will try and answer your post later...


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> @smokin04
> 
> Quantum anything is unproven guess work and is changing all the time..wait 6 minutes and the theory will change. Please do not use unproven theories in a debate as important as Eternity.
> 
> I have to go out for the company Christmas party so will try and answer your post later...


Have fun M-M...for your readin pleasure when you get a chance, The link below is a 63 page peer reviewed paper about how the Higgs-Bozon discovery in 2012 at the LHC proved several quantum theories true. Or if you need a video, watch Clelands quantum energy experiments. Our laws of physics now include quantum as a fundamental root or basis for all formulas. So yes, I'm very careful when it comes to which theories I believe in. Right now the, multiverse theory (and M-theory) is the way I believe. Mathematically, it's the one we are closest to proving, and the one being most heavily studied.

http://zhdanov.trinitas.pro/files/2014/07/Geometric-quantum-mechanical-model-of-the-Universe.pdf






But hey...math and tech advancements (as I mentioned earlier) are proving more of these (at one time) theories to be true. I find it odd that the smartest people on earth are fairly skeptical about the existence of a "creator" and frequently discover break throughs (such as HB, OH YEAH!! and Dark Matter...one can't even discuss Quantum without dark matter) that disprove the possibility of a "creative design" when discussing the universe. You want to really bake your noodle...wait until you research "unparticle physics." The LHC is down until next year for upgrades and repairs...needless to say I (along with the science com) is eagerly awaiting the LHC's return to action.

I never mentioned this here...but creation theory (and sub-atomic particle physics) is a hobby of mine and I follow the physics community VERY closely.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> I find it odd that the smartest people on earth are fairly skeptical about the existence of a "creator" and frequently discover break throughs (such as HB, OH YEAH!! and Dark Matter...one can't even discuss Quantum without dark matter) that disprove the possibility of a "creative design" when discussing the universe.


The Smartest people on earth.... CLASSIC...

Please explain how these discoveries disprove creation


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Okay...I have listed SEVERAL links backed by science/scientists with factual mathematical formulas and other references that have backed my standpoint...

But typical of the religious backers, you have not given one reference of proof of your argument other than biblical versus. You (like others before you) try to disprove scientific standpoints without any facts or evidence to the contrary of my argument. I am waiting to have a valid point to argue against. I'm sorry that your level of intellect (as argued/displayed) does not counter my points with any evidence of anything other than a "belief" in an ancient text...more power to you.

You initially argued that quantum theories were/are not real...to which I countered with fact. They ARE correct and factual and involved in EVERY theoretical physics formula for the past few years.

Coinceidentally...if "creation" were real, we would be able to see it in the chemical/atomical make-up of the universe...which we don't.

Again...waiting.

Still waiting for a debatable point to counter...


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Okay...I have listed SEVERAL links backed by science/scientists with facutal mathematical formulas and other references that have backed my standpoint...
> 
> But typical of the religious backers, you have not given one reference of proof of your argument other than biblical versus. I am waiting to have a valid point to argue against.


just give it a rest! typical atheist, reminds me of the egghead professors always trying to disprove creationism!


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Turtle.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

jro1 said:


> just give it a rest! typical atheist, reminds me of the egghead professors always trying to disprove creationism!





MrsInor said:


> Turtle.


Really? You fine folks are going to do that to me? I bring a different viewpoint to the table and I get called names and shit on? I have NEVER said any religious viewpoint was INCORRECT. Believe how you want...I do not judge EVER! I am merely trying to have an EDUCATED discussion with those that are more versed on religious study than I for personal benefit...and THIS is the response I get from the forum I love? To me this solidifies WHY I FEEL my viewpoint is correct. Speak against religion, and those who believe, crucify you. Present a valid case...and get shunned and ridiculed. I have done nothing but be a positive member to this board and this is what I get for believing the way I do. Bring me something other than "you just have to have faith..." The reason "eggheads" present a problem is that they know more than you...and can prove it. Something you CANT do. One difference is that the eggheads don't call YOU OUT for not understanding things at their level.

This is the one of the MAIN reasons why the SMART seperate from the deeply religious...their confusion causes conflict. Ever heard of the Crusades? Holy crap.


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Whoa! Wasn't singling you out Smokin. Just thought everyone should slow down and take a step back.

jro1 - your remark was uncalled for.

So far this had been an interesting discussion. This is the type discussion that we hope to see - not name calling, etc.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Okay...I have listed SEVERAL links backed by science/scientists with factual mathematical formulas and other references that have backed my standpoint...
> 
> But typical of the religious backers, you have not given one reference of proof of your argument other than biblical versus. You (like others before you) try to disprove scientific standpoints without any facts or evidence to the contrary of my argument. I am waiting to have a valid point to argue against. I'm sorry that your level of intellect (as argued/displayed) does not counter my points with any evidence of anything other than a "belief" in an ancient text...more power to you.
> 
> ...


This is the ISSUE, AGAIN you say things that are not true and try to put false words in my mouth then argue against them... I never said Quantum theories were not real..I said they are theories and change all the time....is that wrong???

AND I told you I had to go to a Christmas party and would answer later...but NO... you want to present obtuse arguments and then proclaim yourself a winner..

I will tell you why I believe in God....

For me it is impossible that ABIOGENESIS (first life) sprang into being by chance... WHY.. because life requires a few things... 
1. ability to absorb food
2. ability to turn food into energy
3. ability to transport energy to needed areas
4. ability to expel waste
5. ability to reproduce

i doubt that all those things JUST HAPPENED by chance.

And I did some research on your quantum physics disproving a creator... there are some pretty smart folks that disagree with the idea... as a matter of fact there are some very educated folks that have written books talking about just the opposite.

here is one





if you need more to read...google "quantum physicists who believe in god" there are many of them..amazing

now, since you are a smart person you should know there is NO way to Disprove God since you do not have ALL knowledge...


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

<sigh> Good debaters know when to take a break and cool down, plan their thoughts and relax.

I am not very knowledgeable in this - so I appreciate the detailed thoughts you both have. This is fascinating.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> @smokin04
> 
> *Quantum anything is unproven guess work *and is changing all the time..wait 6 minutes and the theory will change. *Please do not use unproven theories in a debate as important as Eternity.*





Maine-Marine said:


> This is the ISSUE, AGAIN you say things that are not true and try to put false words in my mouth then argue against them... *I never said Quantum theories were not real*..I said they are theories and change all the time....is that wrong???


So...ummm...yes you did (see above). I'll get to the rest of this tomorrow...


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

No one is crapping on you! your view point is well said, I really enjoy physics and science, but I have a hard time with people trying to disprove my faith,as you have a hard time with people disproving science, alot of it is theory. I am not religious, I have faith, and my faith is in the Lord my God, my creator! I wanted to study geology after high school, as a rock climber I really paid attention to formations and the mountains, but the science behind it was always interfering with my beliefs. you stick to your beliefs and I will stick to mine. If you really want to learn about religion for your "personal benefits" then ask questions, and don't go trying to disprove the answeres with science when someone is simply telling you what they believe. maybe just sit back and listen for once, then go and ponder the information for a day or two. but you jump rite back with neutrons, and colliders.....we don't care! but if you want to learn, then listen and be quiet!


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

And jro1's comment is completely allowed IMO. I welcome this type of scrutiny. I need this type of scrutiny. I can take the discussion. We're all adults here. But the problem is..I need more than scrutiny. Bring me something tangible. Bring me YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS outside what you were taught. Bring me the personal inflection or experiences of WHY you believe in a supreme being rather than scientific FACT. Don't quote gospel...it's a book written by men. 

Tell me human to human WHY you believe in something you can't see, hear, smell, feel, or touch. You believe ONLY IN WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

jro1 said:


> No one is crapping on you! your view point is well said, I really enjoy physics and science, but I have a hard time with people trying to disprove my faith, I am not religious, I have faith, and my faith is in the Lord my God, my creator! I wanted to study geology after high school, as a rock climber I really paid attention to formations and the mountains, but the science behind it was always interfering with my beliefs. you stick to your beliefs and I will stick to mine. If you really want to learn about religion for your "personal benefits" then ask questions, and don't go trying to disprove the answeres with science when someone is simply telling you what they believe. maybe just sit back and listen for once, then go and ponder the information for a day or two. but you jump rite back with neutrons, and colliders.....we don't care! but if you want to learn, then listen and be quiet!


That's my issue brother...I've shut my mouth and listened for DECADES! Nobody has ever been able to tell me anything believable. It always boils down to faith. I just don't buy it. There is too much scientific data out there that proves that the ONE CREATOR theory is just that...a theory. Just like quantum theory was a theory until 2010 when math and scientific discovery PROVED it to be correct. Do I doubt that religion may be a PROVABLE THEORY one day? No...of course not. But right now...science and math is handing religion it's ass. Period.


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

Years ago I was driving home with my two young daughters in their car seats in the backseat. Came to an intersection and had the overwhelming urge not to enter it. My foot was frozen on the brake pedal. Several seconds later a car came speeding through the intersection. It would have hit me. One of the reasons I believe there is a higher being.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

jro1 said:


> just give it a rest! typical atheist, reminds me of the egghead professors always trying to disprove creationism!


Woah! I'm throwing a flag on this play. I'm Christian, but I will not sit by and endure this sort of stuff.

Please, keep the debate or discussion civil and clinical, please.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

well, I have faith because I have prayed for things to happen, and they have actually happened! A few years ago, when i first got married, money was of course tight, the wife really needed a new vehicle, as our other vehicle was on it's last legs, we had been looking at a used toyota Rav 4 that we really wanted for her, but it was $5000 and we did not have that kind of money sitting around, we both prayed about it and asked for anyway for us to come up with the money, a week later we got our taxes in the mail, and we got exactly enough to buy the used car. i couldnt turn a blind eye to that. that is one of many times our prayers have been answered, that is why i have faith


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

My faith has always been very shaky and scripture does not sing to me, no matter how often it has been said in my presence but occasionally I get that "I know" feeling, which makes all doubts disappear, it doesn't happen often but it does when it really counts. 

I know that faith is usually passed down from parents to kids but like in my case, it's an acquired thing, it sometimes just appears when you need it.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

You can't prove faith, why ask for proof?


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

here is another one Smokin, Before i met my wife, i was in relationship with a girl, we dated for over a year, but i really didn't find my self attached to her, i really liked her, but i didn't know if i could marry her, i was turning 26, and i said to my self i wanted to get married before i was 28 and wanted to start a family before i was 30, so i prayed for about a week, asking God what i should do and asking god that the next girl i meet i would marry as i was sick of long term relationships and wanted a lifelong reationship, the next day I was feeling pretty good about what i had prayed about, so i ended the relationship with that girl, it was about a week later, my sister had a friend from out of town stay with us while they were in college together, i ended up seeing this girl...like a week afetr ending a year long relationship with the other girl, and a year later, my prayer was answered, I got married to my wife, my sisters friend.....God answered one the most important prayers i have ever asked for!


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

jro1 said:


> well, I have faith because I have prayed for things to happen, and they have actually happened! A few years ago, when i first got married, money was of course tight, the wife really needed a new vehicle, as our other vehicle was on it's last legs, we had been looking at a used toyota Rav 4 that we really wanted for her, but it was $5000 and we did not have that kind of money sitting around, we both prayed about it and asked for anyway for us to come up with the money, a week later we got our taxes in the mail, and we got exactly enough to buy the used car. i couldnt turn a blind eye to that. that is one of many times our prayers have been answered, that is why i have faith


That is an awesome story (as well as your second one). I am very glad that good things happen to good people. I'm sure your family deserved that bit of prosperity. To pray to a higher power and have those prayers answered is nothing short of miraculous. I will never try to bring science into that incident. If that is one of the many incidents that give you a belief in a higher power, then my friend, you are better armed than most. Coincedence can also be a powerful force in which people see how they want...

Because of my cynical religious attitude, I can't correlate something like that happening as divine intervention. Could it be? Sure. That just very well may be what sends me to hell...if it's a real place. But if there is a real God...and we never "meet" or develop a relationship, then that's just the way it was supposed to be between us. I have asked...I have even prayed when I believed...never to be answered. 
But a "god" has never shown, manifested, or given me a reason to believe that he/she/it is real. So until it happens...science has and will be the most correct answer to me...especially when you can google mathematical facts.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> That's my issue brother...I've shut my mouth and listened for DECADES! Nobody has ever been able to tell me anything believable. It always boils down to faith. I just don't buy it. There is too much scientific data out there that proves that the ONE CREATOR theory is just that...a theory. Just like quantum theory was a theory until 2010 when math and scientific discovery PROVED it to be correct. Do I doubt that religion may be a PROVABLE THEORY one day? No...of course not. But right now...science and math is handing religion it's ass. Period.


i can almost see your issue, sometimes we need to give our brains a break for a while, you just need to focus on the simple things in life, don't look at everything with science?!?! it's hard to explain, i'm not good scripture or the verbatim, but for me, my mind is always on the go, but if i just relax by the river fishing, or in the mountains, i can start a conversation with God, and he is what most would call your concience, that is what i think anyway, it makes sence to me that when i am making a good decision, or an important decision, that it is the lord guiding me, but i can also make that wrong decision and do the opposite, but that is why God gave us free will to choose, and make our own decisions, but when you make the rite choices, he guides you through it and speaks to you. god talks to me through my dreams, He shows me the future and how SHTF! and the things i need to do to prepare myself, i don't know if it makes sence, its a really hard thing to explain i guess.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> That is an awesome story (as well as your second one). I am very glad that good things happen to good people. I'm sure your family deserved that bit of prosperity. To pray to a higher power and have those prayers answered is nothing short of miraculous. I will never try to bring science into that incident. If that is one of the many incidents that give you a belief in a higher power, then my friend, you are better armed than most. Coincedence can also be a powerful force in which people see how they want...
> 
> Because of my cynical religious attitude, I can't correlate something like that happening as divine intervention. Could it be? Sure. That just very well may be what sends me to hell...if it's a real place. *But if there is a real God...and we never "meet" or develop a relationship, then that's just the way it was supposed to be between us.* I have asked...I have even prayed when I believed...never to be answered.
> But a "god" has never shown, manifested, or given me a reason to believe that he/she/it is real. So until it happens...science has and will be the most correct answer to me...especially when you can google mathematical facts.


I don't believe that for a second! he is speaking to you, at this very moment, that is why you are curious and want to know and are asking questions, i may not be the rite person to ansewer those questions, but the rite person will come along!


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

jro1 said:


> i can almost see your issue, sometimes we need to give our brains a break for a while, you just need to focus on the simple things in life, don't look at everything with science?!?! it's hard to explain, i'm not good scripture or the verbatim, but for me, my mind is always on the go, but if i just relax by the river fishing, or in the mountains, i can start a conversation with God, and he is what most would call your concience, that is what i think anyway, it makes sence to me that when i am making a good decision, or an important decision, that it is the lord guiding me, but i can also make that wrong decision and do the opposite, but that is why God gave us free will to choose, and make our own decisions, but when you make the rite choices, he guides you through it and speaks to you. god talks to me through my dreams, He shows me the future and how SHTF! and the things i need to do to prepare myself, i don't know if it makes sence, its a really hard thing to explain i guess.


"God" touches everyone in different ways. I have had a pretty interesting life...but when I "needed" a "god" they/he/she/it were never there. I developed an attitude of denial because my "prayers" were never even discussed, let alone answered. Apparently...god hated me. But the religious say...that's HIS way. **** that. Why do innocent kids get tortured, raped, and murdered? God's plan? I think not. It's sick ****in humans that deserve the electric chair. Not an all loving spiritual deity that controls all life. ALL RELIGION is an answer for the parents to give to their children of, "what happens when you die?" It makes death suck less. Period. There is no science or physics that make death a more enjoyable experience. Without religion...mankind wouldn't have made it as far as we have...

it really is that simple.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> That is an awesome story (as well as your second one). I am very glad that good things happen to good people. I'm sure your family deserved that bit of prosperity. To pray to a higher power and have those prayers answered is nothing short of miraculous. I will never try to bring science into that incident. If that is one of the many incidents that give you a belief in a higher power, then my friend, you are better armed than most. Coincedence can also be a powerful force in which people see how they want...
> 
> Because of my cynical religious attitude, I can't correlate something like that happening as divine intervention. Could it be? Sure. That just very well may be what sends me to hell...if it's a real place. But if there is a real God...and we never "meet" or develop a relationship, then that's just the way it was supposed to be between us. I have asked...I have even prayed when I believed...never to be answered.
> But a "god" has never shown, manifested, or given me a reason to believe that he/she/it is real. So until it happens...science has and will be the most correct answer to me...especially when you can google mathematical facts.


take some time away from the hustle and bust, get out and get some good clean mountain air, and just sit somewhere and think about who God is and who he might be to you. maybe you will get an answer from the the big guy himself. there are lotts of people on here who will pray for you to find an understanding about who he is, from there life just gets more exciting and gives you that drive, kind of like its a carrot dangling in front of you from a stick?!?!


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

jro1 said:


> take some time away from the hustle and bust, get out and get some good clean mountain air, and just sit somewhere and think about who God is and who he might be to you. maybe you will get an answer from the the big guy himself. there are lotts of people on here who will pray for you to find an understanding about who he is, from there life just gets more exciting and gives you that drive, kind of like its a carrot dangling in front of you from a stick?!?!


I appreciate the friendly thought...but I have long given up on a "god." Science has proven more to be correct in my world than any god ever will...

This is a reflection of MY WORLD ONLY. I actually envy those that find a true spiritual freedom. I think spiritual conflict truly arises when you take another human life that doesn't believe the way you do. That's when you really wonder what the shit is going on...

I'm out for the night. I'm tired. ALCON (military acronym for all concerned) Try not to slam me too much in my absence.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> "God" touches everyone in different ways. I have had a pretty interesting life...but when I "needed" a "god" they/he/she/it were never there. I developed an attitude of denial because my "prayers" were never even discussed, let alone answered. Apparently...god hated me. But the religious say...that's HIS way. **** that. Why do innocent kids get tortured, raped, and murdered? God's plan? I think not. It's sick ****in humans that deserve the electric chair. Not an all loving spiritual deity that controls all life. ALL RELIGION is an answer for the parents to give to their children of, "what happens when you die?" It makes death suck less. Period. There is no science or physics that make death a more enjoyable experience. Without religion...mankind wouldn't have made it as far as we have...it really is that simple.


yeah it's a pretty messed up world, but that isnt Gods doing, he gave us free will, that is why the world is ****ed up, we all make the world what it is, we all need to take responsibilty for the way things turn out, we can't blame God, he gave us free will so we could be human, and not animals in bondage, or slavery. we will all answer for what we have done, God spoke to those who wrote the bible, its just simple intructions on how to live a good life, if we all lived by the word of God, don't you think the world would be a peacful place to live?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Lookit, I agree with the sentiment, but there is a time and place for everything. I'm thinking this is really pushing the envelope.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> I appreciate the friendly thought...but I have long given up on a "god." Science has proven more to be correct in my world than any god ever will...
> 
> This is a reflection of MY WORLD ONLY. I actually envy those that find a true spiritual freedom. I think spiritual conflict truly arises when you take another human life that doesn't believe the way you do. That's when you really wonder what the shit is going on...
> 
> I'm out for the night. I'm tired. ALCON (military acronym for all concerned) Try not to slam me too much in my absence.


well, he will never give up on you Smokin, that is why we are still here i guess


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Denton said:


> Lookit, I agree with the sentiment, but there is a time and place for everything. I'm thinking this is really pushing the envelope.


Denton...don't lock it. This is a civilized religious debate. Let us regroup and discuss further. I promise I have some science based shit that will blow your mind.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

jro1 said:


> well, he will never give up on you Smokin, that is why we are still here i guess


Rabbit hole there bud....


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## MrsInor (Apr 15, 2013)

He isn't going to lock this thread (or I will unlock it). I think he was commenting on jro1's comment.

This discussion has been very interesting and civilized for a change.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Smokin04 said:


> Denton...don't lock it. This is a civilized religious debate. Let us regroup and discuss further. I promise I have some science based shit that will blow your mind.


I agree!!! I'm enjoying reading this thread, please don't lock it. 
Smokin, I can't wait to hear your science post!!


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Rabbit hole there bud....


you have no idea how far the hole goes?!?!, I can't even fathom the how deep it goes!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I have no intention of locking this thread. I am quite certain that good people are involved, and good intentions are meant. Still, the "typical" sort of response looks like backing someone into a corner that would cause a less disciplined man to come out swinging hard. Smokin' won't, but he shouldn't be cornered in such a manner.

That is all.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> So...ummm...yes you did (see above). I'll get to the rest of this tomorrow...


Actually I said the theories are unproven... unproven is different then unreal.... they are real theories... they are just unproven


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> That's my issue brother...I've shut my mouth and listened for DECADES! Nobody has ever been able to tell me anything believable. It always boils down to faith. I just don't buy it. There is too much scientific data out there that proves that the ONE CREATOR theory is just that...a theory. Just like quantum theory was a theory until 2010 when math and scientific discovery PROVED it to be correct. Do I doubt that religion may be a PROVABLE THEORY one day? No...of course not. But right now...science and math is handing religion it's ass. Period.


No where does God come down to JUST Faith...as a matter of fact... evidence plays a very big role in why I believe.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Look at a Bible, read it. The Eternal has stated history in advance.

As far as quantum physics, he also states that there is nothing new under the stars.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Because of my cynical religious attitude, I can't correlate something like that happening as divine intervention. Could it be? Sure. That just very well may be what sends me to hell...if it's a real place. But if there is a real God...and we never "meet" or develop a relationship, then that's just the way it was supposed to be between us. I have asked...I have even prayed when I believed...never to be answered.
> But a "god" has never shown, manifested, or given me a reason to believe that he/she/it is real. So until it happens...science has and will be the most correct answer to me...especially when you can google mathematical facts.


Let me offer to you that God has given you reason(s). He will use people around you and facts and evidence.

I have a few question.

How does science answer or explain....

consciousness?

How does science explain Israel being a nation in a sea of enemies...she has been attacked 7 times

How does science explain LOVE

How does science explain the fine tuning of the universe

how does science explain Abiogenesis

I love science - I think science is great... But we must realize that sometimes it is about how we view the "FACTS".... Look at the arguments for and against a global flood.... people on both sides use the same observable evidence but come to different conclusions... (as a side not.. after the Mount saint helens eruption... many folks saw that a large flood would create things/lay down layers as predicted by creationists... google that - very interesting


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

AquaHull said:


> Look at a Bible, read it. The Eternal has stated history in advance.
> 
> As far as quantum physics, he also states that there is nothing new under the stars.


You're quite right. Quantum physics is just new _to us._ No doubt there are many more things left to be discovered. I don't think anyone believes that we know everything.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Global Warming = Increased Polar Ice Crap


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

some folks would think that science is so ANTI-God that all scientists become atheists... but that is not the case

Association of Christians in the Mathematical Sciences Association of Christians in Mathematical Sciences (ACMS)

Christianity Aiding the Development of Science http://www.grisda.org/bclausen/papers/aid.htm

Association of Christian Astronomers International (ACA) www.Christian-Astronomers.org ? Searching the Cosmos For God

Christian Association of Stellar Explorers (CASE) http://www.christian-astronomy.org/

Meta Research (Washington, D.C.) - Astronomy Research in Alternative Astronomical Theories Meta Research (innovative astronomy research)

Creation Scientists in the Biological Sciences

http://www.icr.org/creationscientists/biologicalscientists.html

Creation Scientists in the Physical Sciences http://www.icr.org/creationscientists/physicalscientists.html

Organizations of Christian Astronomers The Great Andromeda GalaxyAssociation of Christian Astronomers International (ACA) www.Christian-Astronomers.org ? Searching the Cosmos For God

MY point - there are views on both sides and there is no BULLET that proves or disproves either side... It all depends on how you see the evidence that is presented..


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Actually I said the theories are unproven... unproven is different then unreal.... they are real theories... they are just unproven


But they ARE proven. I have posted EVIDENCE of such.



Maine-Marine said:


> No where does God come down to JUST Faith...as a matter of fact... evidence plays a very big role in why I believe.


What *EVIDENCE* do you have? Most times when these discussions come about, and the religious side quotes evidence, their evidence is usually questions, or things that CAN'T be explained. Not being able to explain something is not evidence...at least IMO.



Maine-Marine said:


> some folks would think that science is so ANTI-God that all scientists become atheists... but that is not the case
> 
> MY point - there are views on both sides and there is no BULLET that proves or disproves either side... It all depends on how you see the evidence that is presented..


I totally agree...for now. The way I view all evidence available is that there is more scientific and mathematical proof about the creation of the universe then there is spiritual or supernatural proof. Faith is also NOT proof or evidence...faith is a feeling that is internal and individual. Math and science are true to ALL people, whether they like it or not.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> But they ARE proven. I have posted EVIDENCE of such.


you said that they prove God does not exist.... and posted a MASS of information.

bottom line The mathematical formulations of quantum mechanics are abstract.

Broadly speaking, quantum mechanics incorporates four classes of phenomena for which classical physics cannot account:

quantization of certain physical properties
wave-particle duality
principle of uncertainty
quantum entanglement.

Since its inception, the many counter-intuitive aspects and results of quantum mechanics have provoked strong philosophical debates and many interpretations. Even fundamental issues, such as Max Born's basic rules concerning probability amplitudes and probability distributions, took decades to be appreciated by society and many leading scientists. Richard Feynman once said, "*I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." According to Steven Weinberg, "There is now in my opinion no entirely satisfactory interpretation of quantum mechanics."*


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Scientist to GOD- We found the GOD particle

GOD - oh ya

Scientist- first we mix water and dirt,then..

GOD interrupts- Get your own dirt..


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Let me offer to you that God has given you reason(s). He will use people around you and facts and evidence.
> 
> I have a few question.
> 
> ...


Answered. I appreciate the discussion too...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I am no dummy. I have an IQ of 147, degree from the University of Maryland...and I am well read and have studied a lot of different things.

I have yet to see any evidence which would make me DOUBT a creator. 

I am a young earth (less then 7,000 years old), literal 7 days of creation, Global Flood, Jonah was swallowed by a large fish, Jesus is the only way, there is a real Heaven and real hell "type of Christian"


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Answered. I appreciate the discussion too...


This has been a fascinating discussion.

Smokin, what do you think caused the big bang?


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I am no dummy. I have an IQ of 147, degree from the University of Maryland...and I am well read and have studied a lot of different things.
> 
> I have yet to see any evidence which would make me DOUBT a creator.
> 
> I am a young earth (less then 7,000 years old), literal 7 days of creation, Global Flood, Jonah was swallowed by a large fish, Jesus is the only way, there is a real Heaven and real hell "type of Christian"


M-M...never called you a dummy. That's an impressive IQ number, Einstein was a 160, and on every IQ scale a 147 is listed in the "Exceptionally gifted" title. Stephen Hawking is also estimated in the 160 area...I'm curious what you do for a living? 
What is Stephen Hawking's IQ

Because you have "yet to see any evidence" doesn't mean that evidence isn't out there. You're just not looking for it. You are set in your beliefs...I understand that. Most people are. When we reach a level of intelligence that we "think we know" the answers, most people stop looking for answers.



Arklatex said:


> This has been a fascinating discussion.
> 
> Smokin, what do you think caused the big bang?


The collision of two singularities...one matter, one anti-matter. In our universe matter won the battle, so our universe is governed by matter based laws of physics.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

i failed misserably earlier in the day yesterday to be more sensitive to others views, and i think we as christians, need to be more sensitive to others and not get so poopy pants towards others when they explain their views, cause Smokin04 is good company and he is one of our brothers!


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> The collision of two singularities...one matter, one anti-matter. In our universe matter won the battle, so our universe is governed by matter based laws of physics.


Where I struggle to comprehend this is where did the matter and anti-matter originate? And what caused them to collide? I have no theory myself other than the easy answer that God made it happen.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Arklatex said:


> Where I struggle to comprehend this is where did the matter and anti-matter originate? And what caused them to collide? I have no theory myself other than the easy answer that God made it happen.


Now we're approaching the multiverse, string theory, M theory, and 11 dimensional space, fields of study. Start here:
Physicist Neil Turok: Big Bang Wasn't the Beginning

I don't mean to sound ugly when I say this...but the answer that "God" created all, is the easy way out. Because we don't have all the answers yet, God becomes the ultimate answer all wrapped up in a neat and believable (for the spirtual) package. I don't like the "convenience" that the "God theory" provides. There is also no mathematical formula or symbol that can represent "God" unless you use infinite. But all those equations (using infinite) lead you back to a singularity...but no more, no deeper. It's NOT the answer IMO.

This is a GREAT read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Just like the science community waiting for the LHC to come back online, Planck results should also be coming soon. The Planck results will really shake the foundations because it will either prove "inflation" (big bang) by visualizing gravity waves, or M-theory by not seeing gravity waves. Huge things are coming....

Space in Videos - 2013 - 03 - ESA Euronews: Planck maps the dawn of time


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> M-M...never called you a dummy. That's an impressive IQ number, Einstein was a 160, and on every IQ scale a 147 is listed in the "Exceptionally gifted" title. Stephen Hawking is also estimated in the 160 area...I'm curious what you do for a living?
> 
> My Wives IQ is 143..it pisses her off that I am "Smarter" then her...lol.. I knew a guy had a super high IQ.. he was a walking cluster flock...he had no social skills and small things would trip him up.
> 
> ...




you said "The collision of two singularities...one matter, one anti-matter. In our universe matter won the battle, so our universe is governed by matter based laws of physics."

I say - you are making a wild claim without any support or real facts to back it up. and honestly 2 would not be singularities...it would be a duality.... HA HA HA Ha...I kid because i care


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

TorontoGal said:


> You can't prove faith, why ask for proof?


I don't ask people to prove their "faith." I ask for proof (or experiences) that convinces someone that they feel they need faith.



Maine-Marine said:


> you said "The collision of two singularities...one matter, one anti-matter. In our universe matter won the battle, so our universe is governed by matter based laws of physics."
> 
> I say - you are making a wild claim without any support or real facts to back it up. and honestly 2 would not be singularities...it would be a duality.... HA HA HA Ha...I kid because i care


That is funny actually. But yeah, M-theory is when the weak force brings two "brane's" together. When the ripples of the "brane" touch each other a "big bang" occurs. The term singularity is used loosely for familiarity sake. When we're getting really deep into universal origin discussion, using familiar terms puts the discussion at a level that all can contribute to. At least that's my intent.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> I don't mean to sound ugly when I say this...but the answer that "God" created all, is the easy way out.


When somebody asks me who successfully marketed the first automobile, I answer Henry Ford. Not because it is an EASY OUT - but because it is the truth.

Because you do not agree with an answer does not make it an easy out

you do not sound ugly, you sound desperate in your denial...

and stop using infinite...God is not Infinite - He is eternal...You as an non-believing pagan are not allowed to PUT your own understanding onto God in order to create a STRAWMAN for you to correct us on...

This conversation reminds me of this


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> When somebody asks me who successfully marketed the first automobile, I answer Henry Ford. Not because it is an EASY OUT - but because it is the truth.
> 
> Because you do not agree with an answer does not make it an easy out
> 
> ...


I definitely like where this is going.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> This conversation reminds me of this


I can't see the vid. It says the account was terminated.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Smokin04 said:


> Now we're approaching the multiverse, string theory, M theory, and 11 dimensional space, fields of study. Start here:
> Physicist Neil Turok: Big Bang Wasn't the Beginning


That is some HEAVY THOUGHT PROVOKING material! Food for thought.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Since videos are flowing...let me add one.






Notice M-theory does NOT destroy God...it merely makes a "God" unnecessary. This also explains why I'm such a big Quantum buff. Quantum allows us to mathematically test M-theory. Combined with the discovery of the remaining 4 bozons at the LHC (when it starts back up)...you can see that we are very close to the discovery of how it all REALLY started.

Want to really bake your noodle? There is also work being conducted to PROVE that the human soul is a real thing and all due to quantum non-locality entanglement. It is speculated that "out of body" experiences are actually non-locality manifesting out of the mind until the body is reanimated...or not.


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Well, I'm done for the night. Hopefully, to be continued...


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## SquirrelBait (Jun 6, 2014)

29 Ilul. The ending of the Shemita year. I just got done with Jonathan Cahn's 'The Harbinger'. 

One thing I have noticed about the Bible too, It iterates, And reiterates prophecy.


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## SquirrelBait (Jun 6, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> There have not been a million predictions....that is hyperbole at its best
> 
> There are not predictions to cover every date and time - that is just wrong
> 
> ...


The Jews already have the red heifer to consecrate the temple.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Inor said:


> I read that book "The Harbinger" when it first came out and it scared the hell out of me. I need to go back and reread it because I have forgotten large parts of it.


I can relate to that, I read the book and have forgotten the particulars of it. I retained the gist, the central figure is shown signs and his belief system is tested by a higher power, beyond that you got me.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

this is the video


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## Smokin04 (Jan 29, 2014)

Bringing back to fruition...


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Mmhmm....seems legit.


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