# 5 worst states to be in during a major catastrophic disaster



## Toefoot

I do not agree in this list but it is good insight to help you think about your short/Long term planning. Some of you are born lucky and live in a place that is abundant and ideal for the prepper and homesteader while others like me had jobs that moved every 3 years or so. 

I call Colorado home now on a place and have a couple acres. About 9 years ago I knew I had to move. With the influx of people, politics and limited resources the wife and I did our vacations out in the country visiting different states. 

I will be retiring here in a couple of years from my civi job and purchased some land in NW Arkansas a few miles east of Beaver Lake. Although no area is the perfect place this area was affordable, had resources and was not heavily populated. 

I also liked the area just north of Beaumont Texas....it was a hard decision.

Here are the 5 States this gentlemen talks about but in the end it comes down to income, options, age, medical needs and family:

There are many different disasters that would be catastrophic to the United States. An EMP attack that causes the power grid to collapse, a huge natural disaster, or a complete economic collapse far worse than the Great Depression are just three such disasters that would take years to recover from.


What many people fail to realize, however, is that it won’t be the disaster itself that kills the most people. While it is true that the EMP strike would cause planes to fall out of the sky and cars to crash into one another, and while it’s also true that a natural disaster could claim thousands of lives instantly, it’s what happens after an apocalyptic disaster that would cause most of the deaths.

With communications, food, water, and other necessities all cut off instantly, once ordinary people will do desperate things in order to survive. Hunger and starvation, dehydration and lack of water, and people killing one another savagely for basic necessities are what would claim the most lives.

Nowhere in the United States is going to be truly safe or immune from a disaster on a grand scale. However, some states will certainly be less safe than others, and we’re going to discuss what those states are and why they are more unsafe than others.

Here are the top five worst American states to be in during a collapse, presented in alphabetical order:

1. Alaska

Here’s a state that you’re probably surprised to see on this list, especially when you consider Alaska (known as the Last Frontier) is supposed to be a safe haven for survivalists. There’s no denying that Alaska has many factors that would initially make it seem like a good place to be in during a disaster.

For one thing, it’s sparsely populated and its few urban areas are not anywhere near as populous as cities like New York or Los Angeles. It also has an abundance of natural resources such as timber and wild game.


But at the same time, Alaska has many negatives. For one thing, it’s very earthquake prone due to the fact that it’s situated along the West Coast. It’s also cut off from the lower 48 states, so imports of basic supplies and necessities will come to a screeching halt in the midst of disaster with no hope of resupply (gasoline and oil are arguably the biggest of these).

There’s no denying that Alaska is one of the most beautiful places in the entire world. But at the same time, it has serious cons that should make you seriously reconsider it as a bug out location.

2. California

You might as well put the whole West Coast under this one, which is incredibly vulnerable to earthquakes and is very densely populated. Those densely populated cities like San Francisco, San Diego, or Los Angeles are not just bad places to be in an earthquake. They are also prime EMP or nuclear targets for our enemies.

Furthermore, California’s economy is incredibly fragile with very high debt. It’s arguably the most prone to an economic collapse over any other state. This is on top of the very high cost of living, taxes, and regulations in the state as well.

All in all, the West Coast is definitely not somewhere you want to be during a disaster, but California will be even more dangerous than Washington and Oregon.

3. Florida

You can probably already guess one reason why Florida is on this list: hurricanes. It’s no secret that Florida is very prone to hurricanes, but even that hasn’t stopped retirees from flocking to the Sunshine State as a warm tropical haven.


Sure, Florida is a very attractive state, but it’s still far too overburdened with negative factors to be considered a good state to be in during a disaster. On the contrary, it’s one of the worst. Miami is a very large city and could be a prime target of a nuclear or EMP attack. The population in Florida is also very dense (it’s surpassed New York) and the crime rate is high.

In addition, most of Florida is already under sea level, which is dangerous should ocean temperatures ever seriously rise. Overall, you would be advised to not consider Florida as a bug out retreat.

4. Hawaii

Hawaii is on this list for many of the same reasons that Alaska is: it’s cut off from the rest of the United States and therefore will also be cut off from shipping and imports during a disaster. As an added con, Hawaii already has less overall resources than Alaska, with less of a chance to be successful at agriculture due to the generally poor soil.

Hawaii is also a goldmine of military bases that will be prime targets in the event of a global war. Unless you can get out beforehand on a ship or an airplane, you’re essentially stranded in an archipelago out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with no serious way of getting out.

If Hawaii serves one purpose, it’s a vacation place to make happy memories. But it’s certainly not a place to go to outlast a disaster.


5. New York

Last but not least, we come to New York. The East and West Coasts are both highly and densely populated, and the city of New York itself is going to be a prime target for our enemies.

New York also shares many cons with California: the high cost of living, high taxes and regulations, a high crime rate, strict firearms laws, heavy traffic, and so on.

Granted, not all of New York is so bad. Much of the northern part of the state is very rural and teeming with natural resources. Still, you’re in very close proximity to the city, and refugees will undoubtedly be flooding north towards Canada, so you’re still not that safe anyway.

Conclusion

Alaska, California, Florida, Hawaii, and New York will be the five least safe states to be in during a major nationwide disaster. As an alternative, you would be wise to check out the states in the Great Plains or the Rocky Mountains instead. While those areas certainly have their cons as well (remember that no state is truly safe), they are still much safer than the five states we’ve just gone over.


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## dwight55

I would without a second thought add Michigan and Illinois to that list, . . . maybe bumping Alaska and Hawaii off, . . . most can't / won't go there anyway for SHTF.

Because of the proximity to Minneapolis and Chicago, . . . I have personally checked Wisconsin off my list as well. It will be flooded by hood rats within days of SHTF.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Toefoot

dwight55 said:


> I would without a second thought add Michigan and Illinois to that list, . . . maybe bumping Alaska and Hawaii off, . . . most can't / won't go there anyway for SHTF.
> 
> Because of the proximity to Minneapolis and Chicago, . . . I have personally checked Wisconsin off my list as well. It will be flooded by hood rats within days of SHTF.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


Shame really because Wisconsin has good resources but I agree. I was stationed at FT Sheridan north of Chicago and spent most of my off time in Wisconsin. This is when I learned that old men do not play around when it comes to ice fishing and real estate. Made the mistake of being in a local old-timers spot and all hell broke loose.

Lucky for me I had some beer and that was accepted for a apology and the old man turned out to be cool.


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## Steve40th

Midwest towards mountainz are safe, in my opinion.
In reality, most people dont even know anything past their neiguborhood as most dont leave the house.


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## Camel923

the Laural Highlands are not the most remote spot, but they are rural.


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## sideKahr

I think the location of maximum bend-over-ness depends on the type of disaster:

1. If there is a big Pacific tsunami, California, Oregon, and Washington would be screwed. 
2. Similarly for east coastal areas for any Atlantic tsunami.
3. A Korean EMP attack would put Kansas at ground zero.
4. An economic meltdown shifts the worst-place-to-be into 100 major urban centers.
5. A coronal mass ejection and subsequent grid failure makes EVERY state a death zone.

I'm sure you can think of more examples.


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## Denton

> In addition, most of Florida is already under sea level, which is dangerous should ocean temperatures ever seriously rise. Overall, you would be advised to not consider Florida as a bug out retreat.


Uh, no. It is not.


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## Toefoot

Denton said:


> Uh, no. It is not.


I also had a few questions about the authors knowledge but it does plant a seed to think and research.


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## indie

WA is out because all the Californians are invading and they'll turn into blood sucking zombies running around chanting, "Bernie, save us!". I don't think eastern WA has much to worry about tsunami wise though, we have the mountains between us.


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## Annie

What do you think about Southern Vermont? It's so pretty. I like. I know it's chalk full of liberals but there's lots of space and I'd like a little slice of land up there in the mountains for our bug out location when the poop hits.


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## Smitty901

I have to wonder how much Luck played into it. Wife and I both pasted on opportunity in order to live where we chose. Few different times we sat down and look at what surely was a financially rewarding offer.
Then the questions. Is this right for us, do we want to raise our children there ect. And the most important is this what God wants for us. We passed and dug in. 41 one years latter it seems the right call.


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## Jammer Six

There has never been a disaster in the United States other than the civil war that went past a range of mountains. There has never been a disaster of any kind that reached the entire United States directly. No disaster in recorded history has directly impacted another continent.

Finally, in every disaster in the history of the United States, it has been possible to travel out of the disaster area to a place outside that disaster's reach. On average, over the history of the United States, traveling 500 miles (a tank of gas for a modern car, one long day at 50 mph) would put you outside a disaster area.

It's always good to start with facts. These facts are the basis for my family's disaster planning.


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## Chipper

Yes, WI is a really poor choice, surprised it's not #1. With so many options with nice warm climates, mountains and friendly locals. It would be the last place I'd recommend.


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## Hemi45

Florida is really two (if not three) states in one. Miami and the rest of South FL would be horrible but North FL, with the exception of Jax, is an area where I like our odds.


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## sideKahr

Jammer Six said:


> There has never been a disaster in the United States other than the civil war that went past a range of mountains. There has never been a disaster of any kind that reached the entire United States directly. No disaster in recorded history has directly impacted another continent...


Have to disagree.

1. If world war is considered a disaster (as it should be), during the French and Indian War in the 1700's the British crossed the Alleghenies twice, once commanded by Gen. Braddock and once by Gen Forbes.

2. The economic disaster of the Great Depression reached the entire US.

3. The disastrous Second World War reached EVERY continent except Antartica.


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## Jammer Six

I better start saying "a disaster other than war". 

I disagree that the Great Depression reached the entire U.S., some Americans were made rich and others were made richer by the Great Depression.


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## Denton

Jammer Six said:


> I better start saying "a disaster other than war".
> 
> I disagree that the Great Depression reached the entire U.S., some Americans were made rich and others were made richer by the Great Depression.


The next financial crisis will, again, allow some to consolidate wealth and power, but the vast majority will suffer, again. As a matter of fact, the suffering will be even worse.


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## inceptor

Jammer Six said:


> There has never been a disaster in the United States other than the civil war that went past a range of mountains. There has never been a disaster of any kind that reached the entire United States directly. No disaster in recorded history has directly impacted another continent.
> 
> Finally, in every disaster in the history of the United States, it has been possible to travel out of the disaster area to a place outside that disaster's reach. On average, over the history of the United States, traveling 500 miles (a tank of gas for a modern car, one long day at 50 mph) would put you outside a disaster area.
> 
> It's always good to start with facts. These facts are the basis for my family's disaster planning.


*Matthew 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. *

I'm not talking Armageddon because that is still not to come as of yet.

But, if you think anything that could happen right now is isolated you're in for a rude awakening.

We are facing more threats than ever before.

1. War
Both NK and Iran have threatened us with an EMP. Now you can dismiss them because of their size but think about this. All it could take is a few small missiles with 10 megaton or larger warheads launched off shore from a freighter and a good portion of this country would be instantly transported back to the 1800's. Even if they just hit either the East or West coast, large sections of this country would be affected because the biggest part of the electrical grid is interconnected. And don't forget, NK has 2 satellites in synchronized orbit over the US. No one knows why they are there. Also don't forget NK has hacked many of our systems. It wasn't that long ago when major parts of NYC, LA and SF went out at the same time. Coincidence?

It can't happen you say because they are too small. Ever seen a small guy whoop ass on a much bigger one? I have. Ok, they don't have the funding or resources you may say. Well, our last president sent a huge sum of CASH to Iran. What do you think they will use that money for? Feeding the poor? Building resorts? And can you tell me honestly that neither Russia or China aren't backing them? You can bet if that were to happen both Russia and China would be here in a New York minute. The Blue hats would be right behind them.

2. Civil War
So let's take another look at war. This time a civil war. Hollyweird and many in the music business are openly calling for the assassination of our president. I read an article a few hours ago that stated Justice Kennedy may announce his retirement. Liberals on twitter were calling that an act of war. The MSM is calling for open revolt. Hillary announced a while back she is part of THE RESISTANCE now. Members of Congress have been shot at. Antifa is openly burning and rioting. Look for more of that from the BLM soon also. Right now Governor Brown is sucking up to the Chinese and threatening secession. I DON'T consider it an idol threat since he is spending time in China talking to their leaders. He has publicly stated this. 9 states right now are seriously considering seceding because of the Paris Agreement. California has banned state govt travel to 3 states since they don't support the LBGT movement. They have also called for openly defying the Federal govt over immigration policy. There is tons more I could bring up but I don't want to write a book. The worst part is none of the alphabet agencies are doing one single thing about it. They focus on taking down Trump for collusion with Russia but have not found ONE piece of evidence. Still, they trundle on.

3. Economics
Lets start with the job market. You've heard recently the unemployment numbers have dropped. That part is true. BUT you have to know how they come up with those numbers. You can google it to get more detail but in a nutshell, once someone stops receiving unemployment benefits and goes on govt benefits, they are dropped from the numbers and put into another category. For decades we have been losing jobs that have been moved out of the country. The true unemployment rate is well over 30%.

Now lets look at the economy. Stock are up and gold/silver are down. That's a good thing right? But many economists are saying we are in a bubble much worse than 2008. This isn't about one industry like the housing bubble or the tech bubble. This covers the entire spectrum. And they are saying it could burst at any time. Our spending level is at an all time high. Our debt level is greater than our GDP. Russia, China and the UK are the largest holders of our debt. China is talking about selling off the debt they bought. If the sell it too quickly, that could case a crash. They are also saying that if Trump does get taken out that could case a crash. Long term rioting in major cities will cause an interruption in services and goods being delivered. That would also add to the rioting. Look what happened when the EBT system went down for just 12 hours in 17 states back in 2013. We could easily be facing what's going on in Venezuela soon.

4. Politics
You have groups right now that want to overthrow the government because their party did not get elected. And the violence seems to be escalating. Some have seen this coming for a while. 13 have been looking into and setting up a standby currency for their states. 9 other states are talking seceding because they don't agree that all states should conform to the global initiative. They want a global (UN) government. Whatever happened to states rights? California wants to align themselves with China. It wouldn't surprise me if Washington and Oregon aren't also in on the deal. Alphabet agencies have been building up their people for violence in the US since 2012. Obummer signed an executive order last July authorizing the government take over of industries and supplies if "there was a threat to the American people to keep them safe." That includes the use of our military.

So if you think these things will be isolated and won't affect you, you are sadly mistaken. It's going to be a bumpy ride so I would buckle and hang on tight.


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## Jammer Six

1. I'm not worried.

2, 3 and 4 go away as soon as President Trump and his fools are replaced. The only question is whether America will wait and do it at the polls, use the legal system or revolt. Any way it goes, it will be something everyone reads about in the paper, not something everyone has to worry about.


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## inceptor

Jammer Six said:


> 1. I'm not worried.
> 
> 2, 3 and 4 go away as soon as President Trump and his fools are replaced. The only question is whether America will wait and do it at the polls, use the legal system or revolt. Any way it goes, it will be something everyone reads about in the paper, not something everyone has to worry about.


Ah, you're from Seattle, I understand now. 祝你好運！ 對你來說應該很有趣

ETA: For all uneducated ******* deplorables, the Chinese translates as Good luck! It should be fun for you.


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## MonstersAreReal

Jammer Six said:


> 1. I'm not worried.
> 
> 2, 3 and 4 go away as soon as President Trump and his fools are replaced. The only question is whether America will wait and do it at the polls, use the legal system or revolt. Any way it goes, it will be something everyone reads about in the paper, not something everyone has to worry about.


If the SHTF, you will be one of the first to go there snowflake. I wish the best of luck to you and your loved ones, you'll need it. God bless.


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## Camel923

Jammer Six said:


> 1. I'm not worried.
> 
> 2, 3 and 4 go away as soon as President Trump and his fools are replaced. The only question is whether America will wait and do it at the polls, use the legal system or revolt. Any way it goes, it will be something everyone reads about in the paper, not something everyone has to worry about.


If your not worried, why be on a prepper forum? Surely FEMA will molly coddle you if you have a bad day. Your above statements are brash and foolish. True liberal/communist/socialist/progressive: use the courts or armed rebellion when you can not get your way at the ballot box.


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## rice paddy daddy

Hemi45 said:


> Florida is really two (if not three) states in one. Miami and the rest of South FL would be horrible but North FL, with the exception of Jax, is an area where I like our odds.


Absolutely. Draw a line from the Atlantic near Daytona, straight across to the Gulf, and everything south of there is the pits. State Road 40 is a good dividing line.
Refugees from the liberal North East, refugees from the Caribbean, people with no life skills, all those and more will be found there. 
I remember seeing one lady (judging by the accent, an ex- Nu Yawker) being interviewed on TV ONE DAY after a hurricane whining about no one bringing her any cold water! ONE FREAKIN' DAY!! Lady, you DESERVE to drink standing water from the ditch if you didn't have any water put away!

I lived down there from the 1950's until I just couldn't take it anymore. We made our escape in 1995, to North Florida. Out in the piney woods. Close enough to Jax that we are in the "TV viewing area", but outside of Dead Man Walking range. Out with the horses and cows.

As far as Florida being at sea level, what was that guy smokin'? The topo map shows our homestead at 33 meters in altitude.

The unofficial Florida motto: "The only state where the further South you go, the more North you get."


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## rice paddy daddy

So, JammerSix, why do you have the 9th Infantry Regiment DUI as your avatar?


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## Steve40th

The past few weeks I have been driving around SC, just aimlessly taking road less traveled. Its a beautiful state..
Been all over the country and world, until I am in a place for a full year continuously, I know one thing I want, a cooler less humid place.


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## SOCOM42

Denton said:


> Uh, no. It is not.


Then why do you have a snorkel on all the time?

Virginia and eastern Penn. can well be added to that list, The bipedal rat population is horrendous in those locations.


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## Smitty901

So civil unrest goes to extreme level brought on by governments inability to provide service post SHTF for what ever reason storms, power outages all combined reason don't madder. Pick a city Chicago.
Most will have no idea where to head to or how to get there. Some may want to run to uncle Bob's hood in TN but they are not prepared for the trip. Large number of others are stranded with out public transportation. It is going to take time for most of them to figure out they should leave. They will be to busy looting and carrying protest signs.
Those of us far removed from places like that will have time to lock down and secure our location. Once the hoards start finding away out they are head to comfort zones. FL, CA the coast. They are not coming to places that require you to get off your ass to survive. A hand full of crazy people that have never been there but saw it in a movie will head to Montana ,or SD ect. They won't make long . To survive there most of the year requires some skills learned over time on the ground.
Rural northern states will be a good place if it already home you know how to deal with it. The few that may wander in will need help or they won't make it.


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## Jammer Six

rice paddy daddy said:


> So, JammerSix, why do you have the 9th Infantry Regiment DUI as your avatar?


A 2/9th Operation Paul Bunyan. Then I went to Fort Campbell.


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## Denton

Jammer Six said:


> A 2/9th Operation Paul Bunyan. Then I went to Fort Campbell.


Another time I would have risked the destruction of the world for retaliation.


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## UrbanPrepper89

It was already unsettling for me knowing that I live in south Florida. Miami to be exact, so I knew this topic would probably make me even more uneasy, but damn the uneasiness I'm way passed that now. I knew Florida, at least Miami would be a terrible place to be at, but the fact it's number 3 on the list and before NY really makes it an eye opener. If only I can start a gofund me that would allow me to just relocate my family and I anywhere we'd like... any takers ?


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## UrbanPrepper89

rice paddy daddy said:


> Hemi45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Florida is really two (if not three) states in one. Miami and the rest of South FL would be horrible but North FL, with the exception of Jax, is an area where I like our odds.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. Draw a line from the Atlantic near Daytona, straight across to the Gulf, and everything south of there is the pits. State Road 40 is a good dividing line.
> Refugees from the liberal North East, refugees from the Caribbean, people with no life skills, all those and more will be found there.
> I remember seeing one lady (judging by the accent, an ex- Nu Yawker) being interviewed on TV ONE DAY after a hurricane whining about no one bringing her any cold water! ONE FREAKIN' DAY!! Lady, you DESERVE to drink standing water from the ditch if you didn't have any water put away!
> 
> I lived down there from the 1950's until I just couldn't take it anymore. We made our escape in 1995, to North Florida. Out in the piney woods. Close enough to Jax that we are in the "TV viewing area", but outside of Dead Man Walking range. Out with the horses and cows.
> 
> As far as Florida being at sea level, what was that guy smokin'? The topo map shows our homestead at 33 meters in altitude.
> 
> The unofficial Florida motto: "The only state where the further South you go, the more North you get."
Click to expand...

Well I can't talk about the entire Florida, but as far as Miami Beach goes it's been reported that it's only about 8-10ft above sea level. It's actually gotten so bad as of late that anywhere you drive down south beach starting from 1st street they have industrial machines sucking out water from the bay roughly 300 feet apart from each other running 24/7, how far it stretches I'm not sure as I haven't personally kept traveling north and that was before these torrential downpours have started. I've read a few articles stating that in 5-10 years Miami Beach will be underwater. That would be catastrophic in its own way as Miami Beach is nothing but sky rises closely attached to each other. If the foundation gave way and one building collapsed it would start a domino effect probably all the way down to West Palm. As a matter of fact about 2-3 months ago I don't recall exactly when, but the ocean water was already reaching ocean drive which is the closest street to the ocean.


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## AquaHull

dwight55 said:


> I would without a second thought add Michigan and Illinois to that list, . . . maybe bumping Alaska and Hawaii off, . . . most can't / won't go there anyway for SHTF.
> 
> Because of the proximity to Minneapolis and Chicago, . . . I have personally checked Wisconsin off my list as well. It will be flooded by hood rats within days of SHTF.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


MeatChix has some nice rural areas, butt they are close to urban jungles. Joe Louis and his Klan ruined West MI, the other Klan tried hard to clean it up.

That said crap from Shatcago comes up my way for the weekends


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## MikeyPrepper

I would say NJ is right there with NYC. Its getting worse and if SHTF just like hurricane sandy, WTC, or hurricane Irene it was a complete shitshow here!!


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## Pir8fan

I wouldn't consider any of the northern tier of states because of the weather. Nor would I consider the northeast or the west coast. For me it would be somewhere in the south (other than Florida)


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## RedLion

I read an article on the best/better places to be in the U.S. when the shtf about a year or so ago. MN was #1 best for a variety of reasons including that there is no major natural event that would occur or could occur that most could not survive and do alright given the abundance of resources, and small population compared to most other states. Yellow Stone would be a concern, but liveable if prepared.


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## emmawatson7867

God bless... Stay safe.


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## Gridrebel

RedLion said:


> I read an article on the best/better places to be in the U.S. when the shtf about a year or so ago. MN was #1 best for a variety of reasons including that there is no major natural event that would occur or could occur that most could not survive and do alright given the abundance of resources, and small population compared to most other states. Yellow Stone would be a concern, but liveable if prepared.


The problems with MN:

damn cold in the winter, we've had -36 temps, not fun. Super humid and hot in summer, uncomfortable as hell and mosquitos are killers. It's those little things that can make life unbearable. I'm pretty far from Minneapolis and St. Paul, it's not too bad, about 3-4 hours away. I'm only 300 miles from the Canadian border so that gives me some comfort.


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## RedLion

Gridrebel said:


> The problems with MN:
> 
> damn cold in the winter, we've had -36 temps, not fun. Super humid and hot in summer, uncomfortable as hell and mosquitos are killers. It's those little things that can make life unbearable. I'm pretty far from Minneapolis and St. Paul, it's not too bad, about 3-4 hours away. I'm only 300 miles from the Canadian border so that gives me some comfort.


We have gotten colder than -36 in MN. MN does have dramatic shifts in weather from season to season (or even in the same season), but it is resource rich, lower population and it is positioned in the country to be one of the safest locations regarding natural and potential man made disasters.


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## Gator Monroe

Pir8fan said:


> I wouldn't consider any of the northern tier of states because of the weather. Nor would I consider the northeast or the west coast. For me it would be somewhere in the south (other than Florida)


Florida would be bad , really bad unless you had a decent boat .


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## hawgrider

dwight55 said:


> *I would without a second thought add Michigan* and Illinois to that list, . . . maybe bumping Alaska and Hawaii off, . . . most can't / won't go there anyway for SHTF.
> 
> Because of the proximity to Minneapolis and Chicago, . . . I have personally checked Wisconsin off my list as well. It will be flooded by hood rats within days of SHTF.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


I disagree. "Oh how I hate Ohio state" has just as many demoncratic zombies or more than Michigan.

We have all the water and the guns. You have Lake (algae) Erie the most polluted fresh water source in the country. Im afraid Ohio won't last and it will end up on "the list".

Call me and Ill try to save some water for you when you are over run by Ohio demoncrats. I might even feed you some of the worlds best venison as well.


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## Gator Monroe

Hawgrider Imagine being in Daytona during Bike Week and all of a sudden Everyone there was trapped there for a Year and (There was no Beer ) (There was No Booze) (There was no Pot or Recreational Drugs or Tobacco ) (There was no Fuel or Diesel )(No Condoms)


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## hawgrider

Gator Monroe said:


> Hawgrider Imagine being in Daytona during Bike Week and all of a sudden Everyone there was trapped there for a Year and (There was no Beer ) (There was No Booze) (There was no Pot or Recreational Drugs or Tobacco ) (There was no Fuel or Diesel )(No Condoms)


Oh lordy *No beer* and *No booze* Say its not true!!!!!!!! Nooooooooooo!


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## Gator Monroe

hawgrider said:


> Oh lordy *No beer* and *No booze* Say its not true!!!!!!!! Nooooooooooo!


Every Man under 75 would go "Lord of the Flies " that is why Florida is a bad place to be when it all comes down ...


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## Stick

Annie said:


> What do you think about Southern Vermont? It's so pretty. I like. I know it's chalk full of liberals but there's lots of space and I'd like a little slice of land up there in the mountains for our bug out location when the poop hits.


I've always liked Bob Newhart, ever since his Button Down Mind record albums in the early 60s. Whenever anyone mentions Vermont, I automatically hear the theme music for the "Newhart" show, the Stratford Inn one.


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## Smitty901

I could do just fine in a place with no drugs, that includes beer. Lot less BS to put up with. FL and CA would clearly be 2 of the worst places


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## Gator Monroe

Smitty901 said:


> I could do just fine in a place with no drugs, that includes beer. Lot less BS to put up with. FL and CA would clearly be 2 of the worst places


When it all comes down the Laws will be the Same In Ultra Rural Eastern Shasta County California as they are in Ultra Rural Central Vermont or the Hill Country of Texas (Except Ultra Rural Shasta County will have more Game Animals than both and Water than one )


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## Smitty901

Gator Monroe said:


> When it all comes down the Laws will be the Same In Ultra Rural Eastern Shasta County California as they are in Ultra Rural Central Vermont or the Hill Country of Texas (Except Ultra Rural Shasta County will have more Game Animals than both and Water than one )


 Shtf the many areas will see wild game dry up fast. The safest and best places to be is where most don't want to be . Of course there are exception some of thos eplace would be dam hard for most to make it without and modern tools for life.
The upper midwest. Winters scare the hell out of most even now post SHTF people will be leaving by any means. Upper midwaest has it issues in major cities but no where near what places like FL, CA , NY eastcoast do.
Generations have made it on this land, family lived here with no electric long before I got here they did so can I. Winter sucks but it is an excellent form of defense .


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## Jammer Six

Smitty901 said:


> Shtf Generations have made it on this land, family lived here with no electric long before I got here they did so can I.


That's true for anywhere in the world that people live. It's certainly not unique.


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## Smitty901

Jammer Six said:


> That's true for anywhere in the world that people live. It's certainly not unique.


 Whathas chnaged in we have not forgot it all here. We still live with a lot of it. Most have long forgotten


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## Jammer Six

I doubt that. Particularly in the places in the world where there is no electricity or running water. Your idea of "roughing it" is everyday life in some parts of the world.


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## Annie

Stick said:


> I've always liked Bob Newhart, ever since his Button Down Mind record albums in the early 60s. Whenever anyone mentions Vermont, I automatically hear the theme music for the "Newhart" show, the Stratford Inn one.


Haha.... Yes I love Vermont. Best place to be post SHTF? Hmm.

Third world countries will (in some ways), be better off than us after a societal collapse.


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## SOCOM42

Annie said:


> What do you think about Southern Vermont? It's so pretty. I like. I know it's chalk full of liberals but there's lots of space and I'd like a little slice of land up there in the mountains for our bug out location when the poop hits.


 @Annie, post SHTF you would never make it to Vermont,

there would be a carpet of zombie blood suckers blocking the way, all slithering slithering out of NYC and LI.

The NYT would be a gauntlet of life and death, blocked with cars and trucks.

Also I-84 would be the same, a big no go.

You would have to leave before an event occurred.

If I lived in NJ, I would head to Teterboro and grab a plane one way or another.

I would be above the crowds of animals.

You would have to be aware of all events,

then at the right time make the decision and depart before the balloon goes up.

I am 50 miles from the border, I will stay here.


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## Annie

SOCOM42 said:


> @Annie, post SHTF you would never make it to Vermont,
> 
> there would be a carpet of zombie blood suckers blocking the way, all slithering slithering out of NYC and LI.
> 
> The NYT would be a gauntlet of life and death, blocked with cars and trucks.
> 
> Also I-84 would be the same, a big no go.
> 
> You would have to leave before an event occurred.
> 
> If I lived in NJ, I would head to Teterboro and grab a plane one way or another.
> 
> I would be above the crowds of animals.
> 
> You would have to be aware of all events,
> 
> then at the right time make the decision and depart before the balloon goes up.
> 
> I am 50 miles from the border, I will stay here.


Once hubs is ready to retire, we'd be up there in Vermont full time. But that's a ways off, like 5-10 years.


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## Prepared One

Annie said:


> Once hubs is ready to retire, we'd be up there in Vermont full time. But that's a ways off, like 5-10 years.


I am looking at 10. I have been working since I was 9 either before or after school as a kid and full time as an adult. I am damned tired! Perhaps a mountain in Colorado would suffice as a retirement location. Ahhh yes, peace and quite, Hey....you damn kids get off my mountain!


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## Gator Monroe

Prepared One said:


> I am looking at 10. I have been working since I was 9 either before or after school as a kid and full time as an adult. I am damned tired! Perhaps a mountain in Colorado would suffice as a retirement location. Ahhh yes, peace and quite, Hey....you damn kids get off my mountain!


Mountain ? Up here in the Southern Cascades we consider Mountains 3500 ft. & Above (With a few over 8k to 15k + ft. sprinkled in


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## Jammer Six

My parents were morally opposed to child labor. When you talk about working since you were nine, you're opening up your parents to ridicule.


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## Prepared One

Jammer Six said:


> My parents were morally opposed to child labor. When you talk about working since you were nine, you're opening up your parents to ridicule.


Oh please. Don't be such a troll. My parents encouraged a good work ethic and believed it taught me the meaning of hard work, discipline, and independence. I grew up knowing how to function in the real world and knowing that nothing comes free. Go pawn that utter nonsense someplace else.


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## Jammer Six

I see. And I understand.


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## inceptor

Jammer Six said:


> My parents were morally opposed to child labor. When you talk about working since you were nine, you're opening up your parents to ridicule.


Child labor laws were created to give kids a chance. Most of them were hauled off to factories at a very early age and paid very little wage.

Teaching your kids a good work ethic is a good thing. Using them as slaves is not.

Are you telling me that as a kid you never mowed lawns or did anything to earn money? Delivering the morning paper used to be done mostly by kids.


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## pakrat

I have to disagree with the inclusion of New York State in its entirety. I’m from Northern New York where, for the residents of “The North Country”, New York City is on an entirely different plane of reality. Most everything north of Albany is lush open farm land with some very remote wooded expanses. People are accustomed to harsh weather, loss of power and foster a cuture of self-reliance.

Natural resources… water, timber, fish, game and large-scale agricultural development are substantial in that region. It obtains many fuel resources from Canada (gasoline & propane). It compares with the central and northern regions of Maine, but with better roads and infrastructure. The economy of the area has suffered since the early 80’s, but as a haven from the impacts of natural or man-made disaster, I think it has many positive attributes.

Go Wild Cats!


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## Quantum Donut

Interesting insight although I have to both agree and disagree about Alaska it will come down to skill set of the pair of survivalists or group if you build a complete life in the frontier as homesteaders and learn everything you need to survive without outside help you would be just fine if SHTF the only thing you would lose access to is the luxuries you can afford to do with out. the rest of us with out that wide array of skills would need access to more places to scavenge so for the most part i agree Alaska would be bad for most people but hardcore homesteaders would be fine they would suffer increased stress especially when they run out of ammo and reloading supplies having to go back to archery.


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## preppermyA

Stick said:


> I've always liked Bob Newhart, ever since his Button Down Mind record albums in the early 60s. Whenever anyone mentions Vermont, I automatically hear the theme music for the "Newhart" show, the Stratford Inn one.


LOL You must be old like me. I bought that album (the first one) when it first came out. I still have it.


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## Stick

Me, too. Also, "The Button Down Mind Strikes Back". They were getting kinda ratty so I taped them on cassette. Hehehe, still good to keep you chuckling on long drives after 55 years.


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## The Tourist

This is where I got you guys. Hear me out.

First of all, there are five fresh water lakes in our paternoster from the isthmus. Any rudimentary filter will work.

Two, all millennials are either baristas or sell falafels, so I won't starve.

Since everyone is a liberal, even my .380 makes me the cock or the walk.

_"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king..."_

Finally, these libtards are good for something. When the balloon goes up, come to Madison with a 10/22. Find a nice house and tell the owner to get out. I doubt you'll even have to insert a magazine...


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## Mochamorning

I agree with California being on the list. That is why I am eyeing Texas to move to.


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## Moonshinedave

If I was unbiased I'd probably go further south for less harsh winters, and longer growing seasons, but I am biased, I plan to stay right here unless it becomes completely unlivable.
The five worse states? Probably any density populated area, where resources are few and people are plenty.


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## Slippy

Mochamorning said:


> I agree with California being on the list. That is why I am eyeing Texas to move to.


See how that works out, just ask Colorado and South Florida what happens when libtards move into a once conservative Patriotic area and poison it with their stupidity. We'll see how Texas fares as the libtard media has their sights on helping to make it a socialist state...


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## OrchadsPrim

So unfortunate for me. I live in NY but I'm looking to move to Colorado. So, I think this is a good idea after reading this post.


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## stowlin

1.California
2.California 
3.California
4.California
5.Guess....


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## youngridge

stowlin said:


> 1.California
> 2.California
> 3.California
> 4.California
> 5.Guess....


You got it figured out....but in all reality there is some true wilderness beauty to the commie state of the republic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mooosie

I was just reading this guys take on Florida and stopped. He is an idiot. The crime rate in Florida is not high. Most of florida is not below sea level. When I read this I New this guy knows nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jimb1972

sideKahr said:


> I think the location of maximum bend-over-ness depends on the type of disaster:
> 
> 1. If there is a big Pacific tsunami, California, Oregon, and Washington would be screwed.
> 2. Similarly for east coastal areas for any Atlantic tsunami.
> 3. A Korean EMP attack would put Kansas at ground zero.
> 4. An economic meltdown shifts the worst-place-to-be into 100 major urban centers.
> 5. A coronal mass ejection and subsequent grid failure makes EVERY state a death zone.
> 
> I'm sure you can think of more examples.


I did some research on EMPs, and surprisingly being directly under the blast is significantly better than being further away. It does depend on the height of the detonation, but if it went off over Kansas it would probably affect Chicago, Dallas, and Denver more severely.


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## Elvis

I suspect there are decent places to be during a SHTF event in most states but I can see those places being few and far between in states like California, New Mexico, and Hawaii.


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## Bleach

I'd have to say that you should add whatever states the liberals fleeing from California are going to. Colorado comes to mind as from what I have seen the tree hugging **** are turning into another lib paradise. And here in Texas, Austin and Dallas are liberal shitholes as well.


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## 0rocky

Annie said:


> What do you think about Southern Vermont? It's so pretty. I like. I know it's chalk full of liberals but there's lots of space and I'd like a little slice of land up there in the mountains for our bug out location when the poop hits.


 @AnnieI looked into Northern Vermont before I decided on Wyoming. Still largely conservative mindset. I was to go northeast close to NH state line and buy supplies in New Hampshire -no sales tax.


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## MikeTango

Bleach said:


> I'd have to say that you should add whatever states the liberals fleeing from California are going to. Colorado comes to mind as from what I have seen the tree hugging **** are turning into another lib paradise. And here in Texas, Austin and Dallas are liberal shitholes as well.


They've been migrating to Colorado for many years and have completely ruined it. The downhill death spiral was well underway when I left in 1999. I always saw myself retiring and moving back home but now I wouldn't consider doing so and am embarrassed to tell folks that's where I'm from. Don't even want to go back and visit. Hopefully the zombie plague will clean that place up one day. It's beautiful country!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Lunatic Wrench

Quantifying it as states is silly, every state has its positives and negatives, just depends on where you are when the SHTF.

And the whole earthquake and volcano thing always makes me laugh because there are so many other equally if not more deadly things out there, people watch to much ignorant TV. 
We haven't had a noteworthy earthquake in the Puget Sound (Seattle region if you don't have a map) sense 01 and it didn't do that much damage, no one died and it was the same mg. as the Northridge quake in Cali in 95? which killed 50-60 people, not a lot for the amount of destruction.
The last volcano that erupted in the lower 48 was 38 years ago, St. Helens, preceded by Lessan in N. Cali in 1911? in over 100 years now. St. Helens gave a couple months warning to get out of dodge and killed less than 60 people, most of whom were taking their chances with an active volcano. People on Hawaii have survived living "on" a volcano for over a 1000 years. 
Compare that to the annual tornadoes of the midwest, hurricanes in the gulf and east coast, blizzards in the north midwest and town washing away floods in the east, I'm doing pretty good over here.

So no matter where you are when whatever hits, there you are.


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## Bleach

Lunatic Wrench said:


> Quantifying it as states is silly, every state has its positives and negatives, just depends on where you are when the SHTF.
> 
> And the whole earthquake and volcano thing always makes me laugh because there are so many other equally if not more deadly things out there, people watch to much ignorant TV.
> We haven't had a noteworthy earthquake in the Puget Sound (Seattle region if you don't have a map) sense 01 and it didn't do that much damage, no one died and it was the same mg. as the Northridge quake in Cali in 95? which killed 50-60 people, not a lot for the amount of destruction.
> The last volcano that erupted in the lower 48 was 38 years ago, St. Helens, preceded by Lessan in N. Cali in 1911? in over 100 years now. St. Helens gave a couple months warning to get out of dodge and killed less than 60 people, most of whom were taking their chances with an active volcano. People on Hawaii have survived living "on" a volcano for over a 1000 years.
> Compare that to the annual tornadoes of the midwest, hurricanes in the gulf and east coast, blizzards in the north midwest and town washing away floods in the east, I'm doing pretty good over here.
> 
> So no matter where you are when whatever hits, there you are.


Seems to me the entire west coast is a sad place to be if you enjoy freedom! I rather be here in nowhere Texas than anywhere on the "left coast" if disaster strikes.


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## TwoTimeTim

If something bad happens in Mexico the whole border would be a bad place to live. Same for the north border around Canada and New England.


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## Bleach

TwoTimeTim said:


> If something bad happens in Mexico the whole border would be a bad place to live. Same for the north border around Canada and New England.


Canadians won't come here, they know we all have guns. If something bad happens people crossing th border into Texas will be targets.


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## MikeTango

Bleach said:


> If something bad happens people crossing th border into Texas will be targets.


Another reason to have a good healthy supply of ammo...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## txmarine6531

Bleach said:


> I'd have to say that you should add whatever states the liberals fleeing from California are going to. Colorado comes to mind as from what I have seen the tree hugging **** are turning into another lib paradise. And here in Texas, Austin and Dallas are liberal shitholes as well.


Don't forget DFW, SA, El Paso, the Valley, most of the border counties. Slowly and painfully, libtards are turning the state bluer. If a SHTF situation ever occurs, they won't be a problem for too long. They won't know what to do when the gov stops telling them what to do.


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## The Tourist

Toefoot said:


> I will be retiring here in a couple of years from my civi job and purchased some land in NW Arkansas a few miles east of Beaver Lake. Although no area is the perfect place this area was affordable, had resources and was not heavily populated.


(I would have corrected your spelling, but I didn't know if it was "civic" or "civil.")

But I'm glad I took the time to read your post. I've had two careers, one lasting almost 30 years and the other coming on 24. There was some overlap in years as I built my own company but 50 years is 50 years no matter how you slice it. My wife and I are planning to downsize and move to a similar locale. It wasn't planned this way.

A few years back I had some eye surgery. I healed with better vision than before. But something rattled me, and I wasn't usually that type. The step down in job placement was to slow things down, and not come home bushed yet unable to sleep. So I figured starting my own business would be a good idea.

I loved everything about the job except the customers. But this is a job where absolutely no mistakes are allowed.

Then "fear" came to visit me on a somewhat daily basis. I found myself in a doctor's office with a bottle full of Diazepam. I figured this action would get me over the hump. But it didn't.

My wife and I sat down and decided we had the money, enough youth and too much aggravation from our jobs. She's half-time now as a sub-teacher and today I made the big decision.

I'm stopping taking on new clients immediately, and my book of jobs and times ought to get me to about Christmas. _*I'm going to retire full-time.*_

It sounds like you did your homework, and you have plenty of time to research any area where you might settle. My wife's entire family lives in the south-eastern corner of Wisconsin, so I'm thinking "two tanks of gas" away--just enough to make it awkward enough to drop in on us uninvited. I might even start to build or customize the things I've valued for years.

I actually feel better just seeing my dreams in print...


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## GoneSouth61

Who writes this crap?
"In addition, most of Florida is already under sea level...."
Where in Florida is below sea level?


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## The Tourist

This has been a long discussion, and we have talked about our least favorite states.

But consider this, in the event that tectonic drift effects our country, chances are that New York and California will fall into the sea. While I've never been to California, lots of their bizarre ideology lands here, in Wisconsin.


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## gawntrail

The Tourist said:


> (I would have corrected your spelling, but I didn't know if it was "civic" or "civil.")
> 
> But I'm glad I took the time to read your post. I've had two careers, one lasting almost 30 years and the other coming on 24. There was some overlap in years as I built my own company but 50 years is 50 years no matter how you slice it. My wife and I are planning to downsize and move to a similar locale. It wasn't planned this way.
> 
> A few years back I had some eye surgery. I healed with better vision than before. But something rattled me, and I wasn't usually that type. The step down in job placement was to slow things down, and not come home bushed yet unable to sleep. So I figured starting my own business would be a good idea.
> 
> I loved everything about the job except the customers. But this is a job where absolutely no mistakes are allowed.
> 
> Then "fear" came to visit me on a somewhat daily basis. I found myself in a doctor's office with a bottle full of Diazepam. I figured this action would get me over the hump. But it didn't.
> 
> My wife and I sat down and decided we had the money, enough youth and too much aggravation from our jobs. She's half-time now as a sub-teacher and today I made the big decision.
> 
> I'm stopping taking on new clients immediately, and my book of jobs and times ought to get me to about Christmas. _*I'm going to retire full-time.*_
> 
> It sounds like you did your homework, and you have plenty of time to research any area where you might settle. My wife's entire family lives in the south-eastern corner of Wisconsin, so I'm thinking "two tanks of gas" away--just enough to make it awkward enough to drop in on us uninvited. I might even start to build or customize the things I've valued for years.
> 
> I actually feel better just seeing my dreams in print...


Congratulations!! Light at the end of the tunnel.

I still work full time. My wife is a home engineer now. She has some health issues that make moving further out in the country a little more uncertain than we are comfortable with. We don't have to make half the money we used to (debt free). We have a nice home outside of town. Not far enough, but not in town. Growing up in SoCal turned me off of the typical suburbia middle class lifestyle. I'm looking forward to whatever the future holds. Our long term plan is to bug in. So, I am learning.


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## Demitri.14

Jammer Six said:


> 1. I'm not worried.
> 
> 2, 3 and 4 go away as soon as President Trump and his fools are replaced. The only question is whether America will wait and do it at the polls, use the legal system or revolt. Any way it goes, it will be something everyone reads about in the paper, not something everyone has to worry about.


Replaced by Who? Some Socialist Idiot who thinks we should be like Europe ? How about some narcissistic lifetime politician. I think the idea of a civil war started to surface around 2008 or before.

Its not like the left is against Trump, they are against the US. At least the way it used to be.


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## Demitri.14

GoneSouth61 said:


> Who writes this crap?
> "In addition, most of Florida is already under sea level...."
> Where in Florida is below sea level?


All that land east of Daytona


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## The Tourist

gawntrail said:


> She has some health issues that make moving further out in the country a little more uncertain than we are comfortable with.


Funny, we are doing the exact same thing--but slower. My wife also has health issues.

We have to drive a short distance (measured in blocks, not miles) to get to our clinic and a continuity of care. I've known my doctor for almost 7 years, and his predecessor for almost 30 years. We are slowly downsizing, and I've sold a lot of my knife collection--I had knives I bought and never used. As for firearms, I don't really have a place to shoot anymore since most of the gravel pits are now being 'mined.' We pruned that collection back to our favorite defensive pistols.

As you know, I've become the harlequin of "_cheap knives with expensive edges_."


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## Honkerhunteronhoth

Slippy said:


> See how that works out, just ask Colorado and South Florida what happens when libtards move into a once conservative Patriotic area and poison it with their stupidity. We'll see how Texas fares as the libtard media has their sights on helping to make it a socialist state...


Northern Colorado gives Denver the big fat F*ck you. Except for FOCO, but they at least have Rodizio's so they can be tolerated.


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## The Tourist

dwight55 said:


> I have personally checked Wisconsin off my list as well. It will be flooded by hood rats within days of SHTF.


Well, if it means anything to you, we real-deal Wisconsinites truly hate the flotsam that boils up from Illinois. It's bad enough what they do to Chicago, then they come up to Dairyland and drag their crap, disrespect and contempt with them.

I once heard that Chicago was hit by an 7.0 earthquake. It leveled the city and did 6 trillion dollars worth of improvements...


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## Tango2X

Most of Florida is absolutely NOT under sea level!!
But if thinking that will cause folks to go elsewhere-- good.


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## paulag1955

Eastern Oregon or Washington are awesome places to be in an emergency situation, as long as you have access to water (huge caveat there). If the western half of the states haven't fallen into the sea, there's a large mountain range that will weed out many of the urban dwellers who might be inclined to make it to the other side of either state. The biggest cities that could pose issues are Spokane and Boise (both around 220,000, plus or minus. It would make more sense for Spokane residents to go east than west. I'm not sure about Boise residents because I'm not as familiar with the area. For residents of either city, going west would be rough and possibly impossible for people with children.


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## MountainGirl

paulag1955 said:


> Eastern Oregon or Washington are awesome places to be in an emergency situation, as long as you have access to water (huge caveat there). If the western half of the states haven't fallen into the sea, there's a large mountain range that will weed out many of the urban dwellers who might be inclined to make it to the other side of either state. The biggest cities that could pose issues are Spokane and Boise (both around 220,000, plus or minus. It would make more sense for Spokane residents to go east than west. I'm not sure about Boise residents because I'm not as familiar with the area. For residents of either city, going west would be rough and possibly impossible for people with children.


If it's other than a 'natural disaster', i.e. SHTF or CW2, my guess is Spokane residents would most likely head south towards liberal Boise. The city's dwellers have become incredibly liberal and 'program dependent' - and the prospect of heading east into Idaho, or continuing through into Montana may not appeal; heading north would probably be out of the question unless they already have a connection... we're pretty deplorable up here.


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## paulag1955

MountainGirl said:


> If it's other than a 'natural disaster', i.e. SHTF or CW2, my guess is Spokane residents would most likely head south towards liberal Boise. The city's dwellers have become incredibly liberal and 'program dependent' - and the prospect of heading east into Idaho, or continuing through into Montana may not appeal; heading north would probably be out of the question unless they already have a connection... we're pretty deplorable up here.


I'm sure you know better than I do. I don't follow Spokane politics closely (I mean, I do know their city council is insane, but other than that...).


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## marineimaging

I lived in the Beaumont, Orange, Pt Arthur or what we called the Golden Triangle before the name was hacked due to Vietnam. You are absolutely right. And there is one thing that you will find there that you won't in a lot of other places. Christians who will want to see Constitutional America survive. Those who believe in man being good to man and helping one's neighbor. None of us are going to survive any length of time on our own. There will be enemies looking for an opportunity to swoop in and take it all away. The only way to survive will be to rally behind our strengths and to step up to the plate to recreate what we once were. No man is an island.


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## bigz1983

hawgrider said:


> I disagree. "Oh how I hate Ohio state" has just as many demoncratic zombies or more than Michigan.
> 
> We have all the water and the guns. You have Lake (algae) Erie the most polluted fresh water source in the country. Im afraid Ohio won't last and it will end up on "the list".
> 
> Call me and Ill try to save some water for you when you are over run by Ohio demoncrats. I might even feed you some of the worlds best venison as well.


I agree Michigan has a lot of resources and the upper peninsula is even better as far as a place to bug out.


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