# Get Home Plan for defending myself



## tinkerhell

*Scenario:

Winter Blizzard*. Things are looking bad, so the boss lets us go home at noon. I leave in my truck. Unfortunately the majority of the city has the same get home plan so it takes me an hour to 10 minutes down the road.

Something happens to my truck - lets say the water pump blows. I am in a fairly old part of town. I have no desire to camp out in my truck or find a hotel room.

The day is young, only 1pm, so I grab my GHB and head for the nearest bus stop, but the buses are stuck in the same carp as all the other vehicles.

So, I start walking the sidewalk, and watching the traffic. My plan is to work the side walk or jump on the bus, whichever makes most sense.

I'm generally happy with my GHB, it's non military, blends right in with the university crowd. I'm a little concern about getting robbed, the police aren't that mobile with the roads the way they are.

So I go looking in my bag for some simple tools that might be used in self defense. Thankfully, a few months earlier I have a weekend at home to get creative so I was able to reach into my pack and find a _________ and a _____
______ ______ _______ ______.

*Question:

How should this end?*

Keep in mind, this is Canada:
- A handgun is basically illegal to CCW, it will get me arrested and jailed
- I believe a rifle might be legal if it were in a rifle case, but this is such a strange sighting that it is guaranteed to put the police on full alert. It will end with a SWAT style take down with me kissing the ground.
Edit - I'm too out of shape to run away, I will need to take a stand my ground then run strategy.

My thoughts are:
- dog spray ( pepper spray)
- and a homemade walking cane, or
- a homemade umbrella ( my city is very rainy, it would not be strange to have an umbrella during a blizzard

I have some solid steel rod from a Foosball table. and don't mind the idea of making a strong umbrella or cane.


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## Ralph Rotten

Batons, properly used, can inflict great pain, yet are a non-lethal weapon. You can put a few welts on them (known in the business as Pain Compliance) and send them away mad. With pepper there's the mess, and sometimes if the wind is wrong you get some too (especially with the really fine sprays) and it leaves a mess. Stun guns can be fun, but bulky for one with power. And some tazers may be illegal in your area. 

Batons take no batteries, are compact, and usually leave no permanent injuries. People don't usually die from being hit with a baton (assuming you use it properly.) My favorite is a little carbon-fiber baton that I've had for years. It gets wind in both directions, it moves that quick. There is also the Celayaton, which is a great little rattan stick used by police in Singapore I think. You can wale on someone all day and not cause serious injory, but they hurt like bloody hell. They whip you.

Can you carry brass knickles in Canada?


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## Hemi45

Having an ASP and a large knife would make me feel a whole lot better in your situation, given your restrictions.


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## tinkerhell

Ralph Rotten said:


> Batons, properly used, can inflict great pain, yet are a non-lethal weapon. You can put a few welts on them (known in the business as Pain Compliance) and send them away mad. With pepper there's the mess, and sometimes if the wind is wrong you get some too (especially with the really fine sprays) and it leaves a mess. Stun guns can be fun, but bulky for one with power. And some tazers may be illegal in your area.
> 
> Batons take no batteries, are compact, and usually leave no permanent injuries. People don't usually die from being hit with a baton (assuming you use it properly.) My favorite is a little carbon-fiber baton that I've had for years. It gets wind in both directions, it moves that quick. There is also the Celayaton, which is a great little rattan stick used by police in Singapore I think. You can wale on someone all day and not cause serious injory, but they hurt like bloody hell. They whip you.
> 
> *Can you carry brass knuckles in Canada?*


Interesting question, here's the definition



> "Weapon" means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use
> (a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
> (b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person
> and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm.
> - Criminal Code of Canada


Side note: In Canada, a knife is not defined as a weapon based on it's blade length. This means to that a construction worker with a 12" bowie knife is legal, and a gangbanger with a 3" folding knife in his boot is illegal. IMO, this is both better for me as a scout leader, but leaves it wide open for interpretation if I get pulled over with a machete at 2am in the morning.

Another side note: Notice that the definition is so dependant on intent and intimidation, that they actually had to say


> includes a firearm


 to shut down alot of common sense legal defense work for a farmer or any other law abiding citizen. Grrr.

Anyway, I digress..... the definition "prohibited weapon" in subsection 84(3) of the Canadian Criminal Code lists


> 15. The device known as "Brass Knuckles" and any similar device consisting of a band of metal with one or more finger holes designed to fit over the fingers of the hand.


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## tinkerhell

Hmmm....I guess this would be a weapon but not a brass knuckle, prohibited weapon because it doesn't have a band of metal in it.








sorry about how small the pic is.


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## tinkerhell

Hey guys, just took a look at the ASP batons. If I bought one of those, by design, it is defined as a weapon. 

However, if I make a ******* umbrella with a solid pipe, it is just an umbrella unless intent is proven by the crown. I could deliberately leave a trail of evidence with friends and coworkers that showed my original intent of a homemade umbrella is to address how cheap and failure prone the store bought umbrellas are.


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## Diver

First, I would like to deal with the blizzard. Around here the likely version is the traffic blocks the road. Your car is fine but you can't go anywhere. Your choices are stay with the car and wait or trudge around in the snow. I intend to stay with the car. With my bag I'll be fine for 3 days. I do not think this scenario is one where I am any more likely to be attacked than a bright sunny day. What is legal depends on jurisdiction. If you are in a jurisdiction that allows CC then just follow the rules. If your jurisdiction is like NJ then stay out of bad neighborhoods.


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## Smitty901

So huge Snow storm to end all snow storms drops in. I am at he office in Milwaukee or Chicago. I know family is ok they know what to do . Why would I go anywhere. Last thing they need is to worry I am sitting in a snow bank somewhere Would not be the first time we camped out dealing with a storm. Car is in the parking lot supplies in the trunk. I am staying put. Let things settle down a bit. Also if we have a storm like that the BG's are sleeping in.


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## Diver

Smitty901 said:


> So huge Snow storm to end all snow storms drops in. I am at he office in Milwaukee or Chicago. I know family is ok they know what to do . Why would I go anywhere. Last thing they need is to worry I am sitting in a snow bank somewhere Would not be the first time we camped out dealing with a storm. Car is in the parking lot supplies in the trunk. I am staying put. Let things settle down a bit. Also if we have a storm like that the BG's are sleeping in.


Very good approach. In my version, you believe you can get home and stuck traffic intervenes, so you just misjudged the situation. That happens routinely around here.


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## AquaHull

I'm usually not far from home unless driving to do some gun swap thing or doctor's appointment.
If the weather is bad or getting bad I'm staying home.

If I do get stuck,I have "I got some groceries,some peanut butter to last a couple of days" along with my winter hunting gear and fluids.
Talking Heads - Life During Wartime
Talking Heads - Life During Wartime Lyrics | SongMeanings




you need to click on the you tube button to watch


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## tinkerhell

Thanks. The stay put at work, or at the truck, they both sound like very good advice. I could do alot worse if I try walking home.

Just curious what you think about my get home defensive tools, it's generally not like you guys to leave no advice on this.
I doubt that I'm at risk, yet, my GHB is supposed to be versatile. At some point I might want something that is bus/side walk appropriate that wont get me arrested.

Dog spray is cheap, and easy to carry. But my spidey senses are tingling, they tell me that i should come up with a bit more.


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## AquaHull

Somehow we applied these songs to vices at the time

Burning Down The House Lyrics - Talking Heads




We didn't burn the house down anyway.


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## haydukeprepper

Seems like you should move out of Canada. Those laws seem a bit prohibitive.


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## Diver

tinkerhell said:


> Thanks. The stay put at work, or at the truck, they both sound like very good advice. I could do alot worse if I try walking home.
> 
> Just curious what you think about my get home defensive tools, it's generally not like you guys to leave no advice on this.
> I doubt that I'm at risk, yet, my GHB is supposed to be versatile. At some point I might want something that is bus/side walk appropriate that wont get me arrested.
> 
> Dog spray is cheap, and easy to carry. But my spidey senses are tingling, they tell me that i should come up with a bit more.


It depends on your local law. If you can get a concealed carry permit, I see no reason in this scenario to use anything different than your EDC. If no concealed carry, we need to figure out what the legal options are.


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## dwight55

I might be temped to buy a cheap wooden handled tomahawk, . . . sharpen it really well, . . . put it in a box, . . . and tell yourself it is a birthday gift for _____________. 

You have to be up close and personal with a hawk, . . . but if you learn how to use it, . . . it is a devastating CQB weapon.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Arklatex

Whatever you decide to go with make sure you train hard and often with it. Don't just buy something and toss it in your bag thinking problem solved. 

Even a nice 2-3 foot wooden stick can make an effective weapon in trained hands.


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## Chipper

Like someone already said. Take the opportunity to move the hell out of that country before your scenario happens. Isn't that part of being prepared to survive. You know you can't protect yourself yet, there you are.


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## SARGE7402

Posted by Rotten: *Batons, properly used, can inflict great pain, yet are a non-lethal weapon. You can put a few welts on them (known in the business as Pain Compliance) and send them away mad. With pepper there's the mess, and sometimes if the wind is wrong you get some too (especially with the really fine sprays) and it leaves a mess. Stun guns can be fun, but bulky for one with power.*

First let's get something straight A baton is not a non lethal weapon. If used correctly by striking at the green zones on an ASP body the worst that you'll do is to hurt someone. However strike someone in the red zones and you stand a very good chance of killing them. So if you are going to get a baton, at least go to the ASP site and checkout ther red green zone body

see page 16 http://www.bsis.ca.gov/forms_pubs/bat_stuman.pdf


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## AquaHull

I like the "Old BC Two Hander"

If the OP doesn't know what that is,he really needs to move the Puck outta there.


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## tinkerhell

Chipper said:


> Like someone already said. Take the opportunity to move the hell out of that country before your scenario happens. Isn't that part of being prepared to survive. You know you can't protect yourself yet, there you are.


Move before a blizzard happens? I'd rather go ice fishing.


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## RNprepper

Tactical pen? You can even carry one in your pocket at work.


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## sparkyprep

Move the hell out of Canada, come to Florida, USA, the gunshine state. There are no such things as blizzards, or snow for that matter, and the citizens are legally allowed to properly defend themselves.


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## tinkerhell

sparkyprep said:


> Move the hell out of Canada, come to Florida, USA, the gunshine state. There are no such things as blizzards, or snow for that matter, and the citizens are legally allowed to properly defend themselves.


I'm allowed to own rifles and handguns in Canada. But where I can take them is more restricted. In a SHTF scenario, once I get home, I'll have them. Until then, I am comfortable with a country that only has 1000 fireams related deaths per year (80% are suicide) so only a few hundred gundeathes in an entire country. When you factor that into the equation of risks during a blizzard, I would think that you are more likely to get shot by a neighborhood watch person in florida than I get shot for riding a bus on a snowy day.


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## James m

Buy an ice pick. Just say there's a lot of ice in Canada, eh?


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## Will2

tinkerhell said:


> *Scenario:
> 
> Winter Blizzard*. Things are looking bad, so the boss lets us go home at noon. I leave in my truck. Unfortunately the majority of the city has the same get home plan so it takes me an hour to 10 minutes down the road.
> 
> Something happens to my truck - lets say the water pump blows. I am in a fairly old part of town. I have no desire to camp out in my truck or find a hotel room.
> 
> The day is young, only 1pm, so I grab my GHB and head for the nearest bus stop, but the buses are stuck in the same carp as all the other vehicles.
> 
> So, I start walking the sidewalk, and watching the traffic. My plan is to work the side walk or jump on the bus, whichever makes most sense.
> 
> I'm generally happy with my GHB, it's non military, blends right in with the university crowd. I'm a little concern about getting robbed, the police aren't that mobile with the roads the way they are.
> 
> So I go looking in my bag for some simple tools that might be used in self defense. Thankfully, a few months earlier I have a weekend at home to get creative so I was able to reach into my pack and find a _________ and a _____
> ______ ______ _______ ______.
> 
> *Question:
> 
> How should this end?*
> 
> Keep in mind, this is Canada:
> - A handgun is basically illegal to CCW, it will get me arrested and jailed
> - I believe a rifle might be legal if it were in a rifle case, but this is such a strange sighting that it is guaranteed to put the police on full alert. It will end with a SWAT style take down with me kissing the ground.
> Edit - I'm too out of shape to run away, I will need to take a stand my ground then run strategy.
> 
> My thoughts are:
> - dog spray ( pepper spray)
> - and a homemade walking cane, or
> - a homemade umbrella ( my city is very rainy, it would not be strange to have an umbrella during a blizzard
> 
> I have some solid steel rod from a Foosball table. and don't mind the idea of making a strong umbrella or cane.


Tinkerhell the law in Canada is very simple.

If you have a credible threat apply to the CFO of your province. Very few permits are allowed but carry permits do exist.

You cannot carry sprays to be used offensively against a human. You can carry dog spray for defence against dogs. You can carry bear spray for defense against bears. Frankly you can use as much force as is reasonable to stop an attack.

Lethal force can be used if grevious bodily harm or death could reasonably result from an attack against you.

Learn the use of force standards.

Weapons can be carried if they are not restricted or prohibited but cannot cause public alarm or be used as an implement to communicate violence. (Except in self defence)

Guns can be carried but only as authorized guns must be coceiled in a gun case during transport or trigger locked ect.. It is not illegal to transport nonrestricted weapons but the way they are transported is outlined.

If you have any questions ask.

Key is why do you have it not how could it be used in xyz situation.

Police on high alert will make you safe if you practice how to communicate with police better yet call them and tell them abput the breakdown and request assistance.

If you arnt breaking the law you have nothing to worry about in defending yourself.

A tual duress is a defence agaonst criminal responsibility.

If a credible threat to your life exists then there is a black hole.

The idea is dont freak people out.


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## Arklatex

Will said:


> Tinkerhell the law in Canada is very simple.
> 
> If you have a credible threat apply to the CFO of your province. Very few permits are allowed but carry permits do exist.
> 
> You cannot carry sprays to be used offensively against a human. You can carry dog spray for defence against dogs. You can carry bear spray for defense against bears. Frankly you can use as much force as is reasonable to stop an attack.
> 
> Lethal force can be used if grevious bodily harm or death could reasonably result from an attack against you.
> 
> Learn the use of force standards.
> 
> Weapons can be carried if they are not restricted or prohibited but cannot cause public alarm or be used as an implement to communicate violence. (Except in self defence)
> 
> Guns can be carried but only as authorized guns myst be coceiled in a gun case during transport or trigger locked ect.. It is not illegal to transport nonrestricted wrapons but the way they are transported is outlined.
> 
> If you have any questions ask.
> 
> Key is why do you have it not how could it be used in xyz situation.
> 
> Police on high alert will make you safe if you practice how to communicate with police better yet call them and tell them abput the breakdown and request assistance.
> 
> If you arnt breaking the law you have nothing to worry about in defending yourself.
> 
> A tual duress is a defence agaonst criminal responsibility.
> 
> If a credible threat to your life exists then there is a black hole.


So now that you've said all that, what is your defensive carry? And before you answer, fists don't count.


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## Will2

It depends on the situation.

Usually I carry as much as is reasonable to the environment I am in an local potentials.


What is more likely being attacked by a criminal animal or police officer who improperly attemps arrest on a lawful carry?

Usually I will have a dog spray and knives. In the woods I ocassionally carry crossbow hatchette or machette. A rifle is fair game in the forest while hiking.

Regulations are beyond convience now for attempting a carry permit for a pistol. I dont have enough evidence of imminent threat to my safety for a legal carry.

If it were not restricted lawfully I would carry as I believe in equality of equipment access as a libertarian and if the goverment needs it I need it because we face the same threats.

None the less routine is faulty intelligence.


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## TacticalCanuck

You can have a non restricted firearm with you at all time provided you have it stored properly. For non restricted it can be on your front seat with shells or bullets in a mag or on the seat beside you just not in the gun. Mind you your right that it would raise some eyebrows and result in a law man tracking you down. But in a shtf scenario where there is no rule of law? You will be most glad you had it tucked away in your belongings. That said most of us north of the 49th are friendly kind and courteous. We buy the guy in the coffee line behind us a cup o joe cuz he looks like hes having a bad day and help strangers change tires and carry groceries. There will be vagabons and looters in the bigger city cemters but what makes us great as a nation is our undeniable ability to pull together when the chips are down. From helping the elderly neighbor shovel her driveway after a blizzard to helping a mother get home to her kids. I believe it. I live it. I hope you do to.


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## pheniox17

OK... Your purely looking ad defense...

If you can obtain a asp... Get one and carry... (Not promoting breaking the law but they are great) 

Or a 8 cell maglight... Not purchased as a weapon but.... Omg those mother f'ers inflict some pain... (And 100% non questionable) 

Other weapon choices, a good knife and good training... (Yes that men's martial arts... You want to be better than the one attacking you... If you can't escape... Well you have to fight... You have to win... But if your physical situation States you can't escape.... Even with every hand to hand weapon under the sun . someone will most likely beat you)


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## tinkerhell

Thanks, I just reviewed that:



> a non-restricted firearm like a .22lr, shotgun, .30 cal hunting rifle, the correct transportation in a vehicle is to keep it unloaded. *No other requirements needed*.
> 
> If you leave the vehicle unattended, it must me moved to the trunk and locked in the trunk.
> 
> If you vehicle does not have a trunk or lockable compartment, then cover the firearm and lock the vehicle. No other requirements needed


So, if I wanted to, I could keep an unloaded shotgun in my truck at all times by leaving it wrapped in a blanket under my back seat( extended cab truck), ammo stored separately ( in the center console), and lock the truck when unattended.

Whenever, I'm in the vehicle, I could choose to move the covered shotgun onto the passenger seat.

That seems too simple, but I'm not complaining.

Edit: here's my reference http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/PDF/storage-entreposage.pdf


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## TacticalCanuck

Basically yup its that simple. I have a dominion arms 4 + 1 870 clone that goes with me just about anywhere. Sweet but a little heavy. I also have a 10 22 take down tjat does the same depending on where i am going. Stores nice in the bag it comes with. Cheap trigger lock. Set to go. Bag will hold 600 rounds of mini mags in the cases and 6 mags up top in second pocket. Or carry 6 loaded mags and a first aid kit in the bigger pocket. Some scoff at a 22 but uh they are every bit as effective when put to proper use. Id take it over a sharp stick. 

Anyways that should open some doors. Just dont ever talk about it being there. Think of it like uh, herpes i guess. If you got it you dont want anyone to know 

What i really dig on this thread are these other suggestions that i never thought of like the asp. Gonna take a serious lookse into those. 

I generally have a 3.5 inch blade full tang knife with me and a second in my ghb. The one in the ghb has no grips and a paracord wrap so it could get conncected to say a shovel handle from the back of the ole ford pretty quickly too. 

While i hope for the best in a scary spot if something were to go bad here there will be looters and theives and rapists etc that will have free run save for upstanding folk who cant tolerate those making somethimg bad worse. Best to be prepared and not need it than to be stuck without.


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## tinkerhell

Thanks again, TC.

A few more thoughts...

I actually don't mind going beyond minimum requirements, when I have it under the back bench seat, I could look into a means of containing and locking it.

Also, I have an auto lock box that I bought and never installed. It would be large enough to lock some ammo, and mags.

And, lastly, the ASP baton looks like a law enforcement device. I, too, really like the idea but I could definitely see a canadian police officer jumping all over me just for the mere possession of one. I really don't want to be the test case that goes to court. Therefore, I will be looking for something similar that has a non combat use such as a pry bar or walking stick. I'm leaning towards a walking stick, because a prybar could be percieved as having criminal intent if I ever have to abandon my vehicle.


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## tinkerhell

Any idea what the legalities are for leaving your house on foot to go hunting?

In the 80s, i used to see hunters walking through town with their rifles on a shoulder sling in plain site. The action was open, rifle not loaded, magazine removed.

I would like to educate myself on this because I'd like to put a takedown .22lr in my backpack something like the henry survival rifle where everything stores in the stock.

I know I am ok in the bush, but to be totally ok with this idea, I'd like to know what the legalities are for walking through public areas and towns.


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## Moonshinedave

For me, if my truck was still running and the water pump blew, I'd nurse it back home. I'd think you should be able to get several blocks before the engine started to overheat, then I'd pull it over, and fill the radiator water, even if I had melt snow for the water. Then allow the truck to cool and go at it again. Even with this starting and stopping and allowing the engine to cool down, you would make better time, and be safer than leaving going off on foot.
But I don't think that is what you are asking, I think you want to know what to carry. If I owned a pistol I'd probably have it somewhere hidden in my truck. I'd stick it in my pocket and take it with me. Pepper spray, a baton, or that heavy duty umbrella is all good, and I might consider those as my first choice depending on how much danger I thought I was in. BUT, if I felt my life was in danger, I'd use the pistol, like they say, it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.


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## TacticalCanuck

tinkerhell said:


> Any idea what the legalities are for leaving your house on foot to go hunting?
> 
> In the 80s, i used to see hunters walking through town with their rifles on a shoulder sling in plain site. The action was open, rifle not loaded, magazine removed.
> 
> I would like to educate myself on this because I'd like to put a takedown .22lr in my backpack something like the henry survival rifle where everything stores in the stock.
> 
> I know I am ok in the bush, but to be totally ok with this idea, I'd like to know what the legalities are for walking through public areas and towns.


I know folks in small towns who do that save its in a case and not just on their shoulder. If you are well known in your town a case wouldnt bother anyone i dont imagine. Especially when season is open. To be going other places? Or stuck in a city? Guitar case as your gun case is good. The henry will fit in a reusable grocery bag just throw a shirt over it. Most city folk wouldnt know the 10 22 bag either if you cover up the ruger logo and molly on a water bottle it looks a hell of a lot like a day pack. I habe the little badger as well and load the stock with 6 cci low velocity rounds and 6 yellow jackets and take it on bush hikes. Never used it but if something happened - i fell in a ravine or anything having it would be beneficial for small game and coyote protection if i was injured. In its backpack carry case and a cheap lock its perfectly legal and concealed under a hoody or jacket easily so a not to alarm those who think life is what tv says it is.


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## MI.oldguy

Call a cab.


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## exmilitary

Ralph Rotten said:


> With pepper there's the mess, and sometimes if the wind is wrong you get some too (especially with the really fine sprays) and it leaves a mess.


We call it dog or bear spray and it does get messy if it is a fine spray.



> Stun guns can be fun, but bulky for one with power. And some tazers may be illegal in your area.


Yes it is illegal in Canada. They are covered under the restricted license. If you have electronics know how, then it is possible to make one out of old parts laying around the house. I have no trouble make it. .P



> Batons take no batteries, are compact, and usually leave no permanent injuries. People don't usually die from being hit with a baton (assuming you use it properly.) My favorite is a little carbon-fiber baton that I've had for years. It gets wind in both directions, it moves that quick. There is also the Celayaton, which is a great little rattan stick used by police in Singapore I think. You can wale on someone all day and not cause serious injory, but they hurt like bloody hell. They whip you.


Yes they do hurt. Would I carry one? I probably would.



> Can you carry brass knuckles in Canada?


Answer is Nope.

Also I would carry a scanner or ham radio. This will keep me informed as to what is happening out there

So when SHTF and the justice system is breaking down, we as preppers have to take the step to protect our family and property. So whatever method you choose, just make sure you have a plan that works. I have stockpiles of ammo, pepper spray and other goodies locked away in case SHTF. Bottom line is you so whatever you have to protect yourself and your family.


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## exmilitary

tinkerhell said:


> Any idea what the legalities are for leaving your house on foot to go hunting?
> 
> In the 80s, i used to see hunters walking through town with their rifles on a shoulder sling in plain site. The action was open, rifle not loaded, magazine removed.
> 
> I would like to educate myself on this because I'd like to put a takedown .22lr in my backpack something like the henry survival rifle where everything stores in the stock.
> 
> I know I am ok in the bush, but to be totally ok with this idea, I'd like to know what the legalities are for walking through public areas and towns.


Guns can be carried in the vehicle but just be in a gun case and trigger locked. Ammo stored separate. As for walking around town, you might want to check the law regs with RCMP if in Canada or your local state if in the US.


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## TacticalCanuck

From home most of are set and ready as anyone could hope. Getting home could be a life threatening event. If all hell breaks loose i wont interfere and maybe even help someone find their way to their destination. But you can bet your last bag of beans that if someone tries to get in my way harm me or take what is mine on the way home it will end quickly and really badly for them. My family my wife my children are my responsibility and nothing will keep me from getting home to them to keep them safe and make sure they have clean water and a warm meal. 

My wife wont learn how to use the guns safely. She dosent want to touch them. I cant convince her that she needs to learn. Sometimes you only have yourself. One extra bit of knowledge could make the difference between seeing tomorrow or not. So threads like this that help those of us who are or may be in certain areas in times of dire need are fantastic as they force us to explore options before we need them. Amd thats what being prepared is all about.


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## tinkerhell

For christmas, I bought my wife a multitool, a flashlight, a 120db alarm, and a can of dog spray. I wasn't sure how she would react but it was time to find out.

She hasn't said anything nice or bad about them but they are in here purse, so I'll take that as a good sign for now. 

In a month, I'll talk to her about how or when she should use them. I don't want her running into a dark parking lot to get to her car, when she can step out into a busy side walk.


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## TacticalCanuck

tinkerhell said:


> For christmas, I bought my wife a multitool, a flashlight, a 120db alarm, and a can of dog spray. I wasn't sure how she would react but it was time to find out.
> 
> She hasn't said anything nice or bad about them but they are in here purse, so I'll take that as a good sign for now.
> 
> In a month, I'll talk to her about how or when she should use them. I don't want her running into a dark parking lot to get to her car, when she can step out into a busy side walk.


Those are thoughtful and you just covered a birthday for me lol 

I think if things go bad here it will happen fast and it will be very bad not just a temporary hiccup but a complete reworking of our infrastructure.

Look into Canadian law. Our only actual real law is maritime law. I kid you not. And the boundaries are from the shoreline. Our land is still the queens though we operate without her. The crown in the house of commons represents this. We live a lie!!


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## NotTooProudToHide

What about a youth sized baseball bat in place of a baton? Same thing different appearance.


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## Pir8fan

tinkerhell said:


> Keep in mind, this is Canada:
> - A handgun is basically illegal to CCW, it will get me arrested and jailed
> - I believe a rifle might be legal if it were in a rifle case, but this is such a strange sighting that it is guaranteed to put the police on full alert. It will end with a SWAT style take down with me kissing the ground.
> Edit - I'm too out of shape to run away, I will need to take a stand my ground then run strategy.
> 
> My thoughts are:
> - dog spray ( pepper spray)
> - and a homemade walking cane, or
> - a homemade umbrella ( my city is very rainy, it would not be strange to have an umbrella during a blizzard
> 
> I have some solid steel rod from a Foosball table. and don't mind the idea of making a strong umbrella or cane.


Take a look at the Ruger 10/22 breakdown. It fits in my Osprey Stratos pack just fine.


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## Salt-N-Pepper

Dunno, dude, I personally think it's time to find a friend with a 4WD who won't mind coming and picking your butt up in an emergency. 

I mean, really is there nobody who owns a decent snow vehicle you can call? If that's the case, bro, it's time to socialize and find some buds who will help a fella out.

You live in a city, so by default you are not a lone wolf. Don't try to be one, team up, friend up, help out and accept the help of others.


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## jimb1972

My son takes a martial arts class, one of the things they train with is a hickory cane. It is handy, does not raise eyebrows and can be used very effectively as long as the other guy does not have a gun. That and a big can of pepper spray should get you home under the scenario you described.


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## K9 Prepper

I would keep it simple considering the laws in Canada, honestly if you have a homemade walking cane made from hard wood with a ball carved for the handle it would do some damage and keep distance from you and any bad guys. I know this mad sound dumb but they also have those tactical pens. If used correctly it can kill if you go for a neck shot. I've played with one of these before and even a scratch from one of the crown tipped pens would cause a scratch bad enough to the face or eyes that it can keep anyone from continuing an attack.


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## TacticalCanuck

K9 Prepper said:


> I would keep it simple considering the laws in Canada, honestly if you have a homemade walking cane made from hard wood with a ball carved for the handle it would do some damage and keep distance from you and any bad guys. I know this mad sound dumb but they also have those tactical pens. If used correctly it can kill if you go for a neck shot. I've played with one of these before and even a scratch from one of the crown tipped pens would cause a scratch bad enough to the face or eyes that it can keep anyone from continuing an attack.


I have thought on these as just something else to have. Carry a knife. And a tac pen. And a 10/22 td. After shtf and worl it don't matter what you carry. But those things should get you home.


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## tinkerhell

Just my opinion, but I will be making certain than any item I have - homemade or purchased - has a valid purpose that is more likely/reasonable than 'weapon'. Example a knife for opening boxes at work, a cane for walking, a staff for hiking, pepper spray for dogs, etc

I like the tactical products but the mere possession of them is likely to get my arse sent to a courthouse in any scenario less than WROL. Therefore, I would not consider them as a carry item until after WROL.

When it comes to packing a weapon in my vehicle, a firearm is actually better in these situations because there is extensive legal code written for it. This allows me to make sure I am in compliance with the laws for safe transport and storage. 

A tactical product? There isn't much written about them so they run the risk of falling into an illegal classification where I can be charged for having a weapon. 

Sorry about the canadian POV. I totally understand the situation can be different in other countries.


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## K9 Prepper

I agree for a simple get me home in the US. My get home bag is either a .22lr pistol or .380. I prefer my .380 if I know I'm not far from home but I know I'm going to be over a hr away I'll carry my .22lr pistol. I rather know that I have more rounds and can hunt small game if worse case It takes longer than planned to get home. If I know I'm traveling out of my conceal carry limits than I take small tac items with me. I honestly been looking and this wallet ninja card I may be adding to my everyday carry.


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## eferred

I created a 4 ft long walking "stick" out of 3 sided, hollow metal, tapering tubing. it offers a quick twist division into 2 fighting "halves', or for thrusting into the belt for having your hands free. There's a cane crook, about 1 ft down from the 'head", of the stick. the crook serves as a hand/shield, in case I have to fight another stick armed person. The head is heavy and quick detaches, so that I can throw it. The tip is a locking, threaded ferrule sort of deal, so the height to the cane crook can be adjusted. Unless you get really lucky when I hit you, it will be one of the corners that strikes you. It's not lethal (unless I want it to be). but one whack and an arm or leg will be dysfunctional for days (if not broken). with fitness and training, that thing is very, very capable of making half a dozen knife wielders run off, after I mess up 3-4 of their buddies in under 2 seconds, from 10 ft away to start with. it's a very serious weapon, but I can take it virtually anywhere, without even raising an eyebrow.


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## MaterielGeneral

Be careful with the ASP idea everyone. I got into a fight with an ex's boyfriend and he broke a beer bottle over my head and tried stabbing me with the broken bottle. I beat the snot out of him with an ASP. I was a correction officer at the time so I was trained with batons. Lessoned learned that day is he who calls the cops first wins. Later that day I was arrested by several Michigan State Troopers. Nobody would tell me what I was being charged with so I told them to piss off, I don't have anything to say without an attorney present. That pissed them off. Cops do not like it when you lawyer up. 

I was transported to the Kent county Jail and attempted to interrogate me again. After telling them to piss of again I was taken to a cell and promptly beaten. There were six of them against me. I Did ok holding my own until one of them punched me in the back of the neck below the skull. That put me to the ground. A day later after I posted bail, I had two black eyes, a busted lip, bruises all over, even a bruise on my back in the shape of a boot print.

Any ways I was charged with felony assault. $8,000.00 dollars later in attorney fees I got a not guilty verdict because it was self defense. I strongly recommend you check with your state police and your county prosecutor about the legality of owning and using an ASP for self defense.


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## Diver

But, but, but the cops are the good guys!


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## MaterielGeneral

Diver, the ironic thing is that after I posted bail, I went to the hospital and requested them to give me a exam and the state police so I could file a complaint. Doctor looked me over and the state troopers showed up and took my statement and pictures of my wounds.

While waiting for the MSP lab to process the photos, I filed a complaint with the Kent County Sheriff internal affairs. They said there officers did no wrong. I finally got paperwork back on the photos and it said they were lost.


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## Diver

MaterielGeneral said:


> Diver, the ironic thing is that after I posted bail, I went to the hospital and requested them to give me a exam and the state police so I could file a complaint. Doctor looked me over and the state troopers showed up and took my statement and pictures of my wounds.
> 
> While waiting for the MSP lab to process the photos, I filed a complaint with the Kent County Sheriff internal affairs. They said there officers did no wrong. I finally got paperwork back on the photos and it said they were lost.


Did the state police do anything useful?

BTW: I really sympathize with the way you were treated. I'm sure some of the cops here will chime in shortly to tell us both why your story is impossible.


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## MaterielGeneral

Diver said:


> Did the state police do anything useful?
> 
> BTW: I really sympathize with the way you were treated. I'm sure some of the cops here will chime in shortly to tell us both why your story is impossible.


No not really, nothing useful. If some one doesn't want to believe me then I guess that's their problem.


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## Diver

MaterielGeneral said:


> No not really, nothing useful. If some one doesn't want to believe me then I guess that's their problem.


I believe you but I've had my own negative experiences, albeit not as bad as yours.


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## bigwheel

MaterielGeneral said:


> Be careful with the ASP idea everyone. I got into a fight with an ex's boyfriend and he broke a beer bottle over my head and tried stabbing me with the broken bottle. I beat the snot out of him with an ASP. I was a correction officer at the time so I was trained with batons. Lessoned learned that day is he who calls the cops first wins. Later that day I was arrested by several Michigan State Troopers. Nobody would tell me what I was being charged with so I told them to piss off, I don't have anything to say without an attorney present. That pissed them off. Cops do not like it when you lawyer up.
> 
> I was transported to the Kent county Jail and attempted to interrogate me again. After telling them to piss of again I was taken to a cell and promptly beaten. There were six of them against me. I Did ok holding my own until one of them punched me in the back of the neck below the skull. That put me to the ground. A day later after I posted bail, I had two black eyes, a busted lip, bruises all over, even a bruise on my back in the shape of a boot print.
> 
> Any ways I was charged with felony assault. $8,000.00 dollars later in attorney fees I got a not guilty verdict because it was self defense. I strongly recommend you check with your state police and your county prosecutor about the legality of owning and using an ASP for self defense.


Very sad story sorry. Thanks for the heads up on the ASP. I still know how to use one. Great utensil. Condolences on them mean cops. We dont seem to have any like that around here. When I go to walk the man eating dog I always carry my walking stick to beat back the pit bulls till I can get the gun out. Hey you might want to join one of those clubs who gives you free legal if involved in such stuff. I rejoined CLEAT in the retire section and they supposed to have lawyers standing at attention waiting for a phone call from the jail. Several other similar ones which some of the other folks on here recommend. I am going to go get my ASP and use it on my wifes ex boyfriend. Thanks for the tip on that..lol. J/k hang in there. You will be in our prayers.


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## MaterielGeneral

bigwheel, I will take your prayers but there not really needed as in this story. This was some 13 years ago.


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## tinkerhell

When you are beat up that badly, couldn't you claim that the other guy did it to you? It's not like the cops are going to confess to the judge.


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## Anthonyx

Whenever I'm in a no carry area I scan for makeshift weapons without thinking about it. My preferred is the standard waiting room chair but a mop from the household aisle or a skateboard from sports etc - anything I can put between me and the assailant while I make for safety.

I had to rescue a female LP employee who foolishly attempted to apprehend a large mean goon for shoplifting. I got a plastic lawn chair and fended him off with it until help arrived. He tried to have me arrested for assault and battery, the cops basically just laughed him off and took him to jail.

Store manager gave me a $100 gift certificate!


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## MaterielGeneral

tinkerhell said:


> When you are beat up that badly, couldn't you claim that the other guy did it to you? It's not like the cops are going to confess to the judge.


No, because there were pictures taken at the jail and at the hospital.


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## Arklatex

He who calls the law first... I just read that in the book of concealed carry by Massad Ayoob. He had a different story but it just confirms the theory. Costs a lot to get your name cleared.


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## RNprepper

I would stay with the car. In AZ, your car is your domain, per Castle Doctrine. You can defend yourself as if you were in your home. Things will thaw out and traffic will move again. Sheltering within the protection of the vehicle, with your extra blankets, water, and food makes a lot more sense than risking being stranded on foot in a potentially hostile locale. And t least here in AZ, you would be much more legally protected if you had to use deadly force to defend yourself.


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