# The BLM Connection To Witchcraft



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Leaders of the movement admit themselves that they are trained Marxists and do witchcraft. People need to know this. BLM is bat shoot crazy. They say they're summoning the "spirits of the dead" to promote their cause.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Salem Witch hunt again?

No I don't believe in witches except this one from Michigan.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

SEPTEMBER 8, 2020
The Occult Spirituality of Black Lives Matter
DAN BURKE
Black lives do matter. Period.

My first step-father was a racist and an abuser. He constantly used the "n"-word and denigrating language for all who were non-white. He also beat my mother and fired a gun inside our home. I never embraced racism in any form-my stepfather's character made that easy. During my youth, by God's providence, I stumbled across a book entitled Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin, and found in it a deep and decisive affirmation of my instinct that no one should be mistreated on the basis of the color of his skin.

Even so, what if, as a faithful Catholic, you discovered that a group ostensibly dedicated to combating racism-a group with which you have aligned yourself-achieved their ends by conjuring demons to aid them? Most believing Catholics would run for the hills upon even the possibility of something like this, especially those few who (like me) have assisted in exorcisms and experienced first-hand the destructive power of the demonic. Having the devil as a partner in any action corrupts all the good and militates against any authentic remedy. Seeking aid from the enemy of souls is why exorcists in dioceses around the country experience non-stop demands for deliverance.

In the video that follows, Nissy Tee, a black commentator, describes herself as a "bonified, real-life, hard-core believer&#8230; in the movement." She clarifies that her support is for the movement seeking to eradicate racism and discrimination, not the Black Lives Matter organization itself. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc., according to their website, was founded in the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom in 2013. Their stated purpose is "to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes."

Nissy Tee then pauses the discussion with Tomi (her guest) and cuts over to a video conversation between Patrisse Cullors, the executive director of the Black Lives Matter Global Network, and Melina Abdullah who is the co-founder of BLM Los Angeles. It appears the video was edited to aid in brevity for the show, but their key statements are clear and stand on their own

Nissy Tee then pauses the discussion with Tomi (her guest) and cuts over to a video conversation between Patrisse Cullors, the executive director of the Black Lives Matter Global Network, and Melina Abdullah who is the co-founder of BLM Los Angeles. It appears the video was edited to aid in brevity for the show, but their key statements are clear and stand on their own.

More at the link above.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I don't recommend you do it, but you can see these rituals that self acclaimed "trained marxist' Patrisse Cullors (who is the co-founder of Black Lives Matter), performs on youtube to these so-called spirits. When you look at all the destruction the riots are responsible for, there's no doubt it's from hell.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> BLM is bat shoot crazy.[/video]


I must admit, I do not get these types of pressure groups. They come off as loose nuts, and usually cap off the weekend with burning their own ghetto down to the ground.

If I was I was going to invest in something along these lines, I would stick my money into organized crime. Those guys wear nice clothes, they bedeck their wives in furs and jewels, and it's always "Yes, sir, no sir" whenever they need to speak.

Well, it appears they don't even know how to spell their group. It's "Black _Lies_ Matter," isn't it?


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

I believe the U.S is engaged in a battle that can only be won or lost in the spiritual realm and that is as far as I'm willing to go with it right now.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Much of the southern black population have a mix of black magic and Christianity going back to the early slave days (15 hundreds).

Imported slaves brought JUJU with them from Africa, it was practiced in different forms there from the dawn of man.

They created a mix of both over the centuries, Black Magic is still predominant on the Caribbean islands like Haiti, Jamaica and Trinidad.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

Annie said:


> They say they're summoning the "spirits of the dead" to promote their cause


More like "votes of the dead".


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

KUSA said:


> More like "votes of the dead".


Nov 3rd 2020

Night of the voting dead


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Annie said:


> I don't recommend you do it, but you can see these rituals that self acclaimed "trained marxist' Patrisse Cullors (who is the co-founder of Black Lives Matter), performs on youtube to these so-called spirits. When you look at all the destruction the riots are responsible for, there's no doubt it's from hell.


The satanic come in all forms (I do not glorify lucifer by capitalizing his name or forms).


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

SOCOM42 said:


> Much of the southern black population have a mix of black magic and Christianity going back to the early slave days (15 hundreds).
> 
> Imported slaves brought JUJU with them from Africa, it was practiced in different forms there from the dawn of man.
> 
> They created a mix of both over the centuries, Black Magic is still predominant on the Caribbean islands like Haiti, Jamaica and Trinidad.


Isn't Kamelly Harris half-Jamaican? Just saying.....


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

stevekozak said:


> Isn't Kamelly Harris half-Jamaican? Just saying.....


Don't know about that Steve-O, I always thought she was full marxist!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Don't know about that Steve-O, I always thought she was full marxist!


She took campaign money from planned parenthood  and prosecuted Daleiden for his undercover work on the selling of fetal body parts.
https://www.centerformedicalprogres...ris-ca-ag-becerra-for-violating-civil-rights/


> Beginning under the leadership of now-U.S. Senator Kamala Harris, the California Attorney General's office targeted Daleiden's speech under the video recording law at the urging of Planned Parenthood, the National Abortion Federation, and StemExpress, a fetal tissue procurement company with deep ties to the professional abortion industry. While running for U.S. Senate, Harris had a secret in-person meeting with Planned Parenthood executives in Los Angeles, including witnesses in her investigation, to discuss issues in the investigation as part of Planned Parenthood's political agenda in California. Two weeks later, Daleiden home was raided by the California Department of Justice.


 If the Little Sisters of the Poor won't pay for abortions, Kamilla and Jojo want to take them down. So they won't be able to take in poor elderly dying people in their hospices. Nice.


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## NMPRN (Dec 25, 2020)

paulag1955 said:


> I believe the U.S is engaged in a battle that can only be won or lost in the spiritual realm and that is as far as I'm willing to go with it right now.


...bingo

Ephesians 6:12 _For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places._

We can't hope to win this conflict if we don't know, or won't accept, who the real enemy is.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

And ever body thinks that I am crazy, because I am a hard case. And all that I said about BLM is that they are Marxist-Leninist.
If they are witches, it would fit them, since they are inveterate criminals. And the antithesis of Christians.

BLM, whos your daddy? Could it be Satan.? You are doggone right, it is Satan, You bunch of devils.


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## KUSA (Apr 21, 2016)

They used to burn witches.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Cultural Marxism 
https://patriotpost.us/videos/73604-video-dr-voddie-baucham-on-cultural-marxism-2020-09-22


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

KUSA said:


> They used to burn witches.


Yes, but we are supposed to pray for their salvation. How long is a the question. 
Yeah, I know, forever. Still, it's hard to not feel the need for action.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Denton said:


> Yes, but we are supposed to pray for their salvation. How long is a the question.
> Yeah, I know, forever. Still, it's hard to not feel the need for action.


Exodus 22 has some eye popping things to say about that:

Verse 18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Verse 1 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.

The Bible is ferocious in dealing with witches, and is severe with thieves.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Exodus-Chapter-22/

I had to transcribe a lot of that, so there may be minor errors.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> Exodus 22 has some eye popping things to say about that:
> 
> Verse 18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
> 
> ...


True, but that is OT. Now, we want all to come to know and accept Jesus as their savior. Killing them only sentences them to Hell. I prefer they have a chance.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Denton said:


> True, but that is OT. Now, we want all to come to know and accept Jesus as their savior. Killing them only sentences them to Hell. I prefer they have a chance.


That's great if they repent. But if a witch is unrepentant, letting them live on and continue in their sins will only earn them a lower place and more suffering in hell.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

The account of the Egyptian magicians:

And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
Exodus 7

The point of this is that the Egyptian sorcerer's performed magic, it wasn't fake. That is my observation, and you would not believe the static that I have gotten over that conclusion.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

SOCOM42 said:


> Much of the southern black population have a mix of black magic and Christianity going back to the early slave days (15 hundreds).
> 
> Imported slaves brought JUJU with them from Africa, it was practiced in different forms there from the dawn of man.
> 
> They created a mix of both over the centuries, Black Magic is still predominant on the Caribbean islands like Haiti, Jamaica and Trinidad.


Sorry to hear that is prevalent. Have known a lot of real nice highly saved black Brothers and Sisters in Christ over the years and thought most others were similar to them..but guess not. Last I had a discussion with a black Southern Baptist preacher he was quoting me passages out of early Acts about all things in common. Same passages the Jesuits and Marxists use to promote communism. If they kept reading they would see it was a bad man thought up idea which didnt work. 
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1204-should-christians-have-all-things-in-common


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Sorry to hear that is prevalent. Have known a lot of real nice highly saved black Brothers and Sisters in Christ over the years and thought most others were similar to them..but guess not. Last I had a discussion with a black Southern Baptist preacher he was quoting me passages out of early Acts about all things in common. Same passages the Jesuits and Marxists use to promote communism. If they kept reading they would see it was a bad man thought up idea which didnt work.
> https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1204-should-christians-have-all-things-in-common


When flying around the islands in the 70's, I was told on no uncertain terms, do not go out and wander the islands at night!!!

Civilization rolls the rug up after dark, you were instructed to stay in the hotel or in the FBO.

You could end up donating all your blood to a Voodoo ceremony, at least your head and your liver to a witch doctor.

They will eat the liver, so I was told.

My brother was married at that time to the daughter of an importer on St. Thomas Isl. US, use to visit him there,

I asked about the problem on other islands,

he said that JuJu problem did not exist there but had heard about some people missing on the others.

That news was really suppressed, bad for tourism.

I can't say about people in the south here today, but it had a real grip on the people on the islands.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Hear you on that. I think they all wind up moving to Nor'leans...then to Texas after the big Hurricanes hit.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Hear you on that. I think they all wind up moving to Nor'leans...then to Texas after the big Hurricanes hit.


Only half went to Texas.
The other half went east on I-10 to where it ends - Jacksonville, Florida.
Already the Murder Capitol of Florida, it got much worse after Katrina.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

The 90% of black people in the southern US are the reason we've decided to leave the Heart of Dixie. They get crazier and crazier each and every incestual generation...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

MisterMills357 said:


> The account of the Egyptian magicians:
> 
> And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
> Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
> ...


What the magicians did was preternatural, not supernatural (from God). But what of it? I'm not sure I'm understanding your point.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

Annie said:


> What the magicians did was preternatural, not supernatural (from God). But what of it? I'm not sure I'm understanding your point.


My point is that it was supernatural, from the Devil, and in no way was it connected to mundane nature. It was black magic, occult, and it will occur again, black magic I mean.

Revelation 13:13, speaks of The False Prophet. It says And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

There is not a thing about that which is natural, even if it is a lying worker. That is an example of people using witchcraft, my point is that it is real. I have yet to meet anyone who is a Christian to take the occult seriously. In BLM and Antifa, you are witnessing the early stages, of occultism gaining real ground. And they will probably make big gains with it.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

MisterMills357 said:


> My point is that it was supernatural, from the Devil, and in no way was it connected to mundane nature. It was black magic, occult, and it will occur again, black magic I mean.
> 
> Revelation 13:13, speaks of The False Prophet. It says And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
> 
> There is not a thing about that which is natural, even if it is a lying worker. That is an example of people using witchcraft, my point is that it is real. I have yet to meet anyone who is a Christian to take the occult seriously. In BLM and Antifa, you are witnessing the early stages, of occultism gaining real ground. And they will probably make big gains with it.


The supernatural only comes from God. The miracles Christ and the saints performed, eucharistic miracles and the like are meant to confirm the truth of what was said.

But I get your point and I take black magic and the preternatural very seriously: ouija boards, tarot cards, ghost chasers, psychic readers and the like. People take themselves out from under God's protection when they mess with that stuff. Most times nothing will happen, but it is how people can become possessed. Oddly enough these things also confirm the truth of what Christ taught. Fr Ripperger (an exorcist) has said that people who are able to convert and be liberated from possession can be some of the holiest people you'll meet, because they really had to do battle to overcome the evil they've attached themselves to.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Annie said:


> That's great if they repent. But if a witch is unrepentant, letting them live on and continue in their sins will only earn them a lower place and more suffering in hell.


Does the Catholic Church actually teach that there are different levels in Hell?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

paulag1955 said:


> Does the Catholic Church actually teach that there are different levels in Hell?


Yes.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/my-prie...ls-of-heaven-and-hell-where-can-i-find-church


> The Union Councils of Lyons and of Florence declared that the souls of the damned are punished with unequal punishments . . . This is probably intended to assert not merely a specific difference in the punishment of original sin and of personal sins, but also a difference in the degree of punishment for personal sins [cf. Matt. 11:22; Luke 20:47]. . . . St. Augustine teaches "In their wretchedness the lot of some of the damned will be more tolerable than that of others. Justice demands that the punishment be commensurate with the guilt." (Ott, Fundamentals, 482)


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Annie said:


> The supernatural only comes from God. The miracles Christ and the saints performed, eucharistic miracles and the like are meant to confirm the truth of what was said.


This is not true according to the common definition of the word.

1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe
especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature
b: attributed to an invisible agent (such as a ghost or spirit)


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

paulag1955 said:


> This is not true according to the common definition of the word.
> 
> 1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe
> especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
> ...


Oh okay. Must just be a Catholic thing. Sorry.

Supernatural: from God
Preternatural: from the bad angels.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Annie said:


> Yes.
> https://www.catholic.com/qa/my-prie...ls-of-heaven-and-hell-where-can-i-find-church


Interesting. And here I always thought it was just a figment of Dante's fevered imagination.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

paulag1955 said:


> Interesting. And here I always thought it was just a figment of Dante's fevered imagination.


Amazing book, have you read it?

We saw his fake tomb in Florence a few years back, but I didn't know at the time his bones were actually in Ravenna. Ravenna wouldn't give the dead poet's remains back, so Florence gave him a fake one--just a memorial. Pretty fancy, huh?


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Annie said:


> Amazing book, have you read it?
> 
> We saw his fake tomb in Florence a few years back, but I didn't know at the time his bones were actually in Ravenna. Ravenna wouldn't give the dead poet's remains back, so Florence gave him a fake one--just a memorial. Pretty fancy, huh?
> 
> View attachment 110271


No, I haven't read it. Not my preferred kind of reading. And that memorial is amazing.


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## NMPRN (Dec 25, 2020)

MisterMills357 said:


> ... I have yet to meet anyone who is a Christian to take the occult seriously.


Well, now you have (me)  For me it's the opposite, I know very few Christians who don't take the occult seriously, maybe they're jut afraid to talk about in public.

Paul shows a perfect example in Acts 16:16-18. Christ himself deals with the issue in John 13:27 when Satan enters into Judas Iscariot and He (Christ) tells him "That thou doest, do quickly".

...I don't like to capitalize 'Satan' but the Bible does it so I do it also


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

NMPRN said:


> Well, now you have (me)  For me it's the opposite, I know very few Christians who don't take the occult seriously, maybe they're jut afraid to talk about in public.
> 
> Paul shows a perfect example in Acts 16:16-18. Christ himself deals with the issue in John 13:27 when Satan enters into Judas Iscariot and He (Christ) tells him "That thou doest, do quickly".
> 
> ...I don't like to capitalize 'Satan' but the Bible does it so I do it also


NMPRN,

I added a Subscription to this thread, and I will get back to it often, I have to run some errands. I personally capitalize Satan. I have my reasons, and I neither think too highly of him, nor too lowly. He goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom may devour: I regard that as sufficient warning, he is a killer.


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

I'm going to share some unpopular facts. Most people with European ancestry that are in the United States - your ancestors left Europe because of religious persecution by the Church. The Catholic Church was tyrannical and had power over people's everyday lives. If you questioned a church leader (much like questioning the "science" experts today), you were dead because you would be declared a heretic or a witch. Before your ancestors were Christians, they were pagans. And pagans were persecuted by Christians. If I recall correctly, the Founding Fathers would not associate with the Catholic Church because of its tyrannical history and knew it would suppress freedom of thought and expression in this country (as it did in Europe previously). Please do not think that Christianity is a perfect religion; it has a very violent, unforgiving record in history towards those who choose their own way.

And regarding witches and pagans - true witches and pagans do not worship Satan. Satan is part of the Christian religion. I have met witches and pagans and they are kind people. Wicca has its own code of ethics that includes not harming others.

You can say that there are some witches who practice black magic, but just like witches, there are some bad Christians as well who persecute others who do not believe as they do.

I'm just trying to say that you're painting a picture of witches/pagans that is incorrect simply based on some of those associated with BLM.

And if you truly believe in freedom, then shouldn't _I_ be the one who looks out for my own soul instead of everyone else forcing their religion on me? This is the same as the mask wearing. We are each responsible for our own selves.

If I'm no longer welcome here, then so be it. But I had to say this.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

Christians are commanded by the bible to preach the word of God to the people.

Accept or reject is your business, no one is forcing you.

I have had JW's and Mormons come to my door preaching, told them not interested and they politely went away.

I am not a religious fanatic of any sort. 

Who is trying to force a religion on you, the muzzie bastards????

Back during the dark ages every religion was brutal, killed and tortured all including their own.

The roman Catholic church was the most brutal during the Spanish inquisition, they ran rampant.

The same church brutalized the people of the new world to convert, (and to give up their gold for the Vatican).

They decimated the cultures and peoples of Central and South America, mostly for gold and some conversion to Christianity.

Over the centuries they all slowly became civilized to a modern reference of the word.

Today the Catholic church led by a rebel socialist pope, it is committing suicide with its followers.

I know of some stories about the Vatican bank that found its roots in the world wide conversion of heathens.


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## NMPRN (Dec 25, 2020)

smokeyquartz said:


> ...shouldn't _I_ be the one who looks out for my own soul instead of everyone else forcing their religion on me?


You absolutely are responsible for your own soul. I don't think anyone is saying anything contrary to that. And I sure don't see anyone here forcing their religion on you.

Blaming Christians today for something a small group of them did a half a millennia ago is just as stupid as blaming white people today for slavery. You need to update your rhetoric: just like white people don't own slaves anymore (at least in the first world), Christianity doesn't have fringe elements burning witches anymore (at least in the first world).

Like I said back on post #14, my problem isn't with the _people_ who are being influenced by _powers_, it's with the_ powers_ themselves.

...and yes, we all have ancestry that pre-dates Christianity. Christianity has only been around since _the Word became flesh and dwelt among us_


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

smokeyquartz said:


> And regarding witches and pagans - true witches and pagans do not worship Satan. Satan is part of the Christian religion. I have met witches and pagans and they are kind people. Wicca has its own code of ethics that includes not harming others.
> 
> You can say that there are some witches who practice black magic, but just like witches, there are some bad Christians as well who persecute others who do not believe as they do.
> 
> ...


You must be kidding, and I must assume that you are a practicing Wiccan, since you posted a defense of them. I looked in my old edition of the New World Dictionary , and here are some roots of the word witch.

Wicca=sorcerer, to use sorcery. (That is also known as black magic.) Going further into the roots, I came to "violent strength", and vincere, the Latin for conquer. At the end of the root list was victor, victim, and wicked.

Let me see if I can make sense of that. A Wiccan is a sorcerer, who uses violent strength (magic), in order to have power and victory, over a victim.

You are delusional and foolish, to think that you are not using wicked means, in order to get gain.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

smokeyquartz said:


> I'm going to share some unpopular facts. Most people with European ancestry that are in the United States - your ancestors left Europe because of religious persecution by the Church.


Do you mean the English? Actually they were leaving the church of England which had already broken with Rome. Parliament's passage of the Act of Supremacy happened in 1534. This established a new church which was separate from Rome. It's true that the first settlers were escaping religious persecution, but not because of Rome. The first colony was founded at Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607. Well after England broke with Rome .



> The Catholic Church was tyrannical and had power over people's everyday lives. If you questioned a church leader (much like questioning the "science" experts today), you were dead because you would be declared a heretic or a witch.


I'm a little confused with regard to your analogy to scientists, but maybe lets let that go for now...

Is there something in particular you're referring to? The inquisition? Galileo? LMK.



> Before your ancestors were Christians, they were pagans. And pagans were persecuted by Christians.


Again, do you have a reference? Thanks.



> If I recall correctly, the Founding Fathers would not associate with the Catholic Church because of its tyrannical history and knew it would suppress freedom of thought and expression in this country (as it did in Europe previously).


It's true that America didn't exactly roll out the red carpet for Catholics when they first started arriving here. But there's an interesting thing about us: once we were accepted we became very loyal citizens.



> Please do not think that Christianity is a perfect religion; it has a very violent, unforgiving record in history towards those who choose their own way.


You know, it'd be best to give some examples. It's really unfair to make such blanket statements and it's not possible for people to respond.



> And regarding witches and pagans - true witches and pagans do not worship Satan. Satan is part of the Christian religion. I have met witches and pagans and they are kind people. Wicca has its own code of ethics that includes not harming others.


I know. I know they can be nice people who want to live in harmony with nature. I realize there's different camps, if you will and that they're not all out there stealing people's cats on mischeif night in order to perform some ritual sacrifice on Halloween. :tango_face_wink:



> You can say that there are some witches who practice black magic, but just like witches, there are some bad Christians as well who persecute others who do not believe as they do.


Whom are you referring to?



> I'm just trying to say that you're painting a picture of witches/pagans that is incorrect simply based on some of those associated with BLM.


Who did that?



> And if you truly believe in freedom, then shouldn't _I_ be the one who looks out for my own soul instead of everyone else forcing their religion on me? This is the same as the mask wearing. We are each responsible for our own selves.


I wouldn't argue with that. I think you're correct.



> If I'm no longer welcome here, then so be it. But I had to say this.


You are welcome here! :tango_face_smile: Welcome, welcome!!


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

I'll just post a little follow up for some of the responses I received. @Annie @MisterMills357

First, no I am not a practicing witch. I posted a defense because this thread seemed pretty one-sided to me and, as I said, it paints an incorrect picture of those who practice wicca/paganism simply based on the association of some with the violent BLM people. Someone posted that the definition of wicca is someone who practices witchcraft in order to have victims and gain things from other people. That's incorrect. Their ethics do not condone hurting others. Just a quick search turned up this link regarding the ethics of the "New Wiccan Church International" https://newwiccanchurch.org/public/about/ethics/. Over and over in web searches you can find mention of their main ethic, called the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do what you will."

In response to request for reference proving that most people with European ancestry had pagan ancestors, this is simply fact. If you descend from Europe, then you come from pagan ancestors. Before Christianity, there were many different pagan religions with many different gods all over Europe. The original Europeans were pagans. There are Norse and Germanic gods and the Druids in ancient England. You can learn about them from an internet search. However, you have to understand that because these religions were being practiced in ancient history and they were wiped out by conquerers, it's going to be difficult to find "sources" of them written down in English just for me to post it here for you! Many of their practices are lost to history and because of being conquered by Rome/other nations. Before Constantine became Emperor of Rome, the Roman Empire was pagan and tolerant of many religions, including Christianity, due to the edict of Milan. After Constantine and other Christians rose to power in Rome, other religions were no longer tolerated. This is such a detailed and complicated part of history, I'm sure there are people who have written entire books on it and done Ph.D. theses. I'm not one of those and I'm not going to give a point-by-point list of every single thing done to persecute pagans by Christians. You can research it if you choose. Here are some links to get you started. I know one of them is biased against Christians, but of course you will not find a pro-Christian website that is going to talk about how Christians persecuted pagans. I'm sure you can find scholarly books on Amazon if you choose. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_pagans_in_the_late_Roman_Empire
https://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com/gbb_heathens.htm

Someone mentioned the Inquisition, yes, that was another period of persecution by the church. Here is a link about it and how "heretics" were tortured and/or killed: https://www.history.com/topics/religion/inquisition

You can also research the forced conversion of native people during the Colonial Era. Again, I'm not going to be able to find written English sources of what their religion was before they were converted to Christianity. It's probably lost to history at this point what the names of their gods were, etc. They were practicing their own religion until they were conquered and forced to convert.

Regarding modern persecution, no, the church is not forcefully converting people/burning people alive anymore. I saw a movie called The Magdalene Sisters years ago about how young women in Ireland were placed in Catholic asylums. These women were unwanted and scorned by society because of the moral code laid out by the church. There was no forgiveness or mercy for them, as the religion preaches. They were put into asylums as unpaid workers for indefinite periods (many for life). Here is a review: https://www.catholicsforchoice.org/issues_publications/in-review-the-magdalene-sisters/

So, it's not a blanket statement at all to say that the Christian Church has a long, violent history towards unbelievers. This is documented fact; just look at history.

I want to end by saying that I am not a proponent of any particular religion. I can appreciate that Christians also do good things and care about people. The tide seems to have turned against Christians, and now they are being persecuted but in a different way. Of course I disagree with the forced lockdowns in general, but when governors are forcing churches to not be able to have services, that is persecution and a direct attack on the First Amendment! I also see Christians being forced to participate in social practices that are against their beliefs. And they are persecuted with name-calling and lies if they refuse to participate. I don't like this or agree with it. I feel like we are all being persecuted now, those of us who believe in Freedom and sovereignty over our own body. I can't think of a higher crime or greater civil persecution than what is going on right now, perpetrated by our elected government.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

smokeyquartz said:


> I'll just post a little follow up for some of the responses I received. @Annie @MisterMills357
> 
> First, no I am not a practicing witch. I posted a defense because this thread seemed pretty one-sided to me and, as I said, it paints an incorrect picture of those who practice wicca/paganism simply based on the association of some with the violent BLM people. Someone posted that the definition of wicca is someone who practices witchcraft in order to have victims and gain things from other people. That's incorrect. Their ethics do not condone hurting others. Just a quick search turned up this link regarding the ethics of the "New Wiccan Church International" https://newwiccanchurch.org/public/about/ethics/. Over and over in web searches you can find mention of their main ethic, called the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do what you will."
> 
> ...


 @smokeyquartz

Interesting stuff. But I'd rather just burn the BLM folks at the stake! :vs_blush:


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

@Slippy No, they are no "peaceful protestors", that's for sure.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

smokeyquartz said:


> I'll just post a little follow up for some of the responses I received. @*Annie* @*MisterMills357*
> 
> First, no I am not a practicing witch. I posted a defense because this thread seemed pretty one-sided to me and, as I said, it paints an incorrect picture of those who practice wicca/paganism simply based on the association of some with the violent BLM people. Someone posted that the definition of wicca is someone who practices witchcraft in order to have victims and gain things from other people. That's incorrect. Their ethics do not condone hurting others. Just a quick search turned up this link regarding the ethics of the "New Wiccan Church International" https://newwiccanchurch.org/public/about/ethics/. Over and over in web searches you can find mention of their main ethic, called the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do what you will."
> 
> ...


King James Bible
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

MisterMills357 said:


> King James Bible
> He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


Yes, that was probably one of the church mottos used to justify torturing and killing pagans/natives/non-Catholics.... believe or else....just like some other Tyrants that are in power today.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

smokeyquartz said:


> Yes, that was probably one of the church mottos used to justify torturing and killing pagans/natives/non-Catholics.... believe or else....just like some other Tyrants that are in power today.


That is a quote by Jesus, and He also said that a house divided against itself, cannot stand. And He also said that if Satan be divided against himself ,he cannot stand.

Which of those kingdoms do you belong to?


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

@MisterMills357
I said I'm not a proponent of any religion. Whoever said it, it is evidence of coercion. You're trying to put me into a category within your religion, but I'm not Christian...


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

smokeyquartz said:


> @*MisterMills357*
> I said I'm not a proponent of any religion. Whoever said it, it is evidence of coercion. You're trying to put me into a category within your religion, but I'm not Christian...


Did you read those quotes by Jesus? Because the way that I read them, you are excluded from Christianity .


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

@MisterMills357
I don't respond well to coercion from anyone. Someone who tries to force me is simply manipulative and not a true friend. And I see coercion in those words that you quoted from Jesus. It's the same fear tactic that our current government uses. "Believe or else!" See, I truly do believe in Freedom. Anyone who would send you to such a place as "hell" for not agreeing with them is someone that you would not call a friend.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

smokeyquartz said:


> @*MisterMills357*
> I don't respond well to coercion from anyone. Someone who tries to force me is simply manipulative and not a true friend. And I see coercion in those words that you quoted from Jesus.[\QUOTE]





smokeyquartz said:


> In my opinion you will suffer the fate of all deniers, that being hell. You are no better than the angels who rebelled, or the inhabitants of Sodom.


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

@MisterMills357
Peace be with you.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

smokeyquartz said:


> @*MisterMills357*
> Peace be with you.


Save it.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Has the Catholic Church produced sinners? Sure. If that's your point, I can't argue. However, a lot of what you've pointed to actually comes from individuals who called themselves Catholics and not from actual Church teaching. And that is a fact.

If we've had sinners among us, that's true. And I can only say that the Church has also produced great saints throughout the world. Also great art, architecture, hospitals, universities and a culture that's greater than any civilization that's gone before. 
@smokeyquartz,


> the Roman Empire was pagan and tolerant of many religions, including Christianity, due to the edict of Milan.


 No, they fed them to the lions.



> So, it's not a blanket statement at all to say that the Christian Church has a long, violent history towards unbelievers. This is documented fact; just look at history.


To be fair, if you want to look at history, I'd have to challenge you to look up the North American Martyrs. Look up Father Damian. Look up St. Francis Xavier. Just for starters.


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## smokeyquartz (Oct 24, 2020)

Hey @Annie.

Yes, Christians have accomplished good things as well. Your point about their persecution by lions is taken.

I don't think there's anything else constructive to say here, so I thank you for for listening to me and considering what I've written. I don't take for granted that you and I are able to have this peaceful discussion. I wish more people could talk like this in real life. I will read about the people the you mentioned. Have a good night.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

smokeyquartz said:


> Hey @Annie.
> 
> Yes, Christians have accomplished good things as well. Your point about their persecution by lions is taken.
> 
> I don't think there's anything else constructive to say here, so I thank you for for listening to me and considering what I've written. I don't take for granted that you and I are able to have this peaceful discussion. I wish more people could talk like this in real life. I will read about the people the you mentioned. Have a good night.


You as well, smokeyquartz, have a goodnight. And I don't doubt that you've got a lot to contribute to this forum. I hope you stick around.


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