# Women Should Not Be In Position of Leadership! Discuss...



## Slippy

Not in church, not in schools, not in tax payer funded elected positions, not in moderator roles, not in PTO/PTA, not in Little League, not in Scouts, etc etc...not in most things. 

But women should most certainly be in leadership roles NEXT to the man of the house, in family situations. 

What say you knuckleheads?


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## Ridin with biden

I definitely agree with church because the good book says for a woman to be silent in church... any of these others I am indifferent and think the position is best filled by the most mentally and morally fit person, male or female...


Side note = I was filling out paperwork for a couple guns today and I was given 3 options for gender- male female or non-binary, whatever that is


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## KUSA

Here's at least one example of why you are wrong.


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## Prepared One

Man! Are you going to start a fight!


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## Prepared One

There are examples of strong women leading their nations through a crises. That said, they are few and far in between. That also said, I would take Maggie Thatcher over the Ho and Joe any day of the week and twice on Sunday.


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## Hemi45

Slippy should have somebody sample his food and start his car from now on. Discuss:vs_laugh:


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## Dhamp40

Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


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## Denton

Slippy, are you feeling a tad suicidal, tonight?


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## 65mustang

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


STFU please.


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## 65mustang

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


STFU please.


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## SOCOM42

KUSA said:


> Here's at least one example of why you are wrong.


The iron lady was an unbelievable exception, she had more balls than most guys!

Now we are faced with a KNOWN HOE becoming president of the US in less than a year.

Look at the libtard fem governor's ruining their states right now!

There are virtually none that can match Thatcher's quality in any position here.

Nikki Haley is good but not in the right positions for anything at this point.

IF there were/are some of Maggie's quality, then let them step forward.

I see nothing in any elected position at this point.

I don't care about the dog catchers positions on low levels, I worry about the course of this nation.


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## bigwheel

Slippy said:


> Not in church, not in schools, not in tax payer funded elected positions, not in moderator roles, not in PTO/PTA, not in Little League, not in Scouts, etc etc...not in most things.
> 
> But women should most certainly be in leadership roles NEXT to the man of the house, in family situations.
> 
> What say you knuckleheads?


Well causing problems at Little League dont bother me but giving them them nuclear launch codes could start at war at the wrong time of the month.


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## KUSA

Dhamp40 said:


> U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me.


I'm confused, exactly which one of you will be doing the shooting?


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## SOCOM42

Another strong woman was Golda Meir.

She was prime minister of Israel in the late 60's.

She too was referred to as an IRON LADY by here people.


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## SOCOM42

KUSA said:


> I'm confused, exactly which one of you will be doing the shooting?


How did we get to who shooting who????

Did our newbie get ruffled tail feathers????


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## Back Pack Hack

I really enjoy it when a woman takes charge.


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## Slippy

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


 @Dhamp40

There are at least 27 Operatives around the USA acting under the guise of "Slippy". At all times, someone will be near and/or ready to do what it takes.

Know this.

Your friend,

Slippy! :vs_wave:


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## Redneck

Slippy said:


> Not in church, not in schools, not in tax payer funded elected positions, not in moderator roles, not in PTO/PTA, not in Little League, not in Scouts, etc etc...not in most things.
> 
> But women should most certainly be in leadership roles NEXT to the man of the house, in family situations.
> 
> What say you knuckleheads?


I think you are full of shit & bourbon.


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## Slippy

Arguably, women who were not landowners, being allowed to vote, then hold office were a huge part of the downfall of the Republic. Lowering the voting age to 18 had a lot to do with it too.

But most women seem to make decisions based on emotion and not fact. 

Women are critical and must be cherished and protected and often revered. But not in positions of leadership outside the family.

Questions? Comments?


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## Redneck

Slippy said:


> But most women seem to make decisions based on emotion and not fact.


You calling Trump a woman?


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## Slippy

So far we have Maggie Thatcher as a shining example of a woman who lead and lead well.

Other than that, nothing...


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## SOCOM42

Slippy said:


> So far we have Maggie Thatcher as a shining example of a woman who lead and lead well.
> 
> Other than that, nothing...


You missed Golda.


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## rice paddy daddy

Slippy said:


> So far we have Maggie Thatcher as a shining example of a woman who lead and lead well.
> 
> Other than that, nothing...


I will submit that this female soldier has more "balls" and leadership capabilities than the overwhelming majority of males on this forum.
I'd go into combat with her any time.

https://www.army.mil/article/1645/female_soldier_receives_silver_star_in_iraq


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## rice paddy daddy

Slippy said:


> So far we have Maggie Thatcher as a shining example of a woman who lead and lead well.
> 
> Other than that, nothing...


Here are a few more.
https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/5-more-women-who-received-the-distinguished-flying-cross/


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## rice paddy daddy

How about the Angels of Bataan, US military nurses captured by the Japs who continued to treat US and Filippino service men in the POW camps? For three years?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4393394/How-Angels-Bataan-Corregidor-survived.html


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## rice paddy daddy

There are plenty more. Plenty more.
But, it's late and I'm headed to bed.


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## paulag1955

I've often thought there's no way for men to discuss this topic without sounding either sexist or condescending and this conversation has done nothing to persuade me otherwise. But, hey, if y'all think Joe Biden will be a better leader for this country than, say, Nikki Haley, because he's a man, more power to you.


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## rice paddy daddy

paulag1955 said:


> I've often thought there's no way for men to discuss this topic without sounding either sexist or condescending and this conversation has done nothing to persuade me otherwise. But, hey, if y'all think Joe Biden will be a better leader for this country than, say, Nikki Haley, because he's a man, more power to you.


Gee, I hope you weren't refering to me.
Did you click on the links I posted?


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## paulag1955

rice paddy daddy said:


> Gee, I hope you weren't refering to me.
> Did you click on the links I posted?


No, not you.


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## Denton

I knew this woman when she was a butterbar. Smart, hard charging and made good decisions on the fly. She listened to her NCOs, Learned from our experience and formed her leadership style. 
I was very proud to call her my LT.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_L._Bray


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## Kauboy

To avoid putting a target on myself, I'll convey the opinions of my dear wife.
"Women are too emotional to be president."
"Women should not lead men in church services."
"The man is the head of the household as Christ is the head of the church. She should submit to him as the church should submit to Christ and he should be willing to die for her as Christ died for all."

Her words, not mine.
I think I picked a good'un.
:tango_face_wink:


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## Denton

Kauboy said:


> To avoid putting a target on myself, I'll convey the opinions of my dear wife.
> "Women are too emotional to be president."
> "Women should not lead men in church services."
> "The man is the head of the household as Christ is the head of the church. She should submit to him as the church should submit to Christ and he should be willing to die for her as Christ died for all."
> 
> Her words, not mine.
> I think I picked a good'un.
> :tango_face_wink:


You did pick a good'un. Her words aren't hers. They are straight from the Bible. That proves she is wise. 
I'd vote for her!


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## SAR-1L

The skill/ability of leadership doesn't require having a penis. Plenty of us stupid guys in leadership screwing things up with ours.

Also since some seem to think there is a lack of women examples, I knew a Blackhawk Instructor Standardization Pilot once upon a time. Lady had been elbow deep in blood trying to patch dudes up, and ferried SF guys during the IRAQ war. If she isn't a prime example of leadership then, show me better, she has bigger balls than 90% of dudes I see on the street.


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## CapitalKane49p

Slippy said:


> Not in church, not in schools, not in tax payer funded elected positions, not in moderator roles, not in PTO/PTA, not in Little League, not in Scouts, etc etc...not in most things.
> 
> But women should most certainly be in leadership roles NEXT to the man of the house, in family situations.
> 
> What say you knuckleheads?


Slippy

My friend from another life would like to have a word with you. I just hope she doesn't give you a canoe.

Meet Lyudmila Pavlichenko

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko

Godspeed.


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## Denton

SAR-1L said:


> The skill/ability of leadership doesn't require having a penis. Plenty of us stupid guys in leadership screwing things up with ours.
> 
> Also since some seem to think there is a lack of women examples, I knew a Blackhawk Instructor Standardization Pilot once upon a time. Lady had been elbow deep in blood trying to patch dudes up, and ferried SF guys during the IRAQ war. If she isn't a prime example of leadership then, show me better, she has bigger balls than 90% of dudes I see on the street.


Stand pilot better be keeping the other pilots current while the medics stop bleeding! :tango_face_grin:


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## Eyeball

If women show themselves to be bloody good at whatever they do, I got no beef with that, but if they fall short they should be booted out, for example-

Woman submarine captain- "Give me a status report"
Sonar operator- "I'm picking up ship engine noise on passive sonar ma'am, shall I switch to active sonar to pinpoint it?"
Woman captain- "DON'T YOU DARE! you know that wretched pinging sets my nerves on edge!"

Infantryman lieutenant- "Why didn't you shoot that running terrorist?"
Woman squaddie- "He had nice eyes"


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## Nat

OMG! What the heck? Are you for real or just taking the P?
I have just started reading through a few posts and see this one. Are you for real? 
I am from New Zealand and we have a woman leader who ELIMINATED Covid 19 under her direction. I'd say she is pretty amazing. She's not perfect and I don't agree with a lot of her policies. Her fiancée is a cheating a/hole and certainly no help to her in making decisions that affect a whole country.
Mate, you would not last 5 seconds in NZ with that arrogant sexist attitude. We are headstrong independent women who can organise shit and get stuff done, with or without men. 
I am just hoping that that post was a joke.


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## Slippy

Nat said:


> OMG! What the heck? Are you for real or just taking the P?
> I have just started reading through a few posts and see this one. Are you for real?
> I am from New Zealand and we have a woman leader who ELIMINATED Covid 19 under her direction. I'd say she is pretty amazing. She's not perfect and I don't agree with a lot of her policies. Her fiancée is a cheating a/hole and certainly no help to her in making decisions that affect a whole country.
> Mate, you would not last 5 seconds in NZ with that arrogant sexist attitude. We are headstrong independent women who can organise shit and get stuff done, with or without men.
> I am just hoping that that post was a joke.


Ease up woman and take a deep breath...
New Zealand currently has a socialist/commie leader and saying that she eliminated COVID as an example of her leadership is ludicrous. Her fiance is probably cheating on her because she's a frigid commie lesbian.

And if I ever came to NZ, not only would I last, I most likely would be running your little country within a few hours, that is if I could break away from all the real women trying to spend some "Slippy Time" if you know what I mean!

:vs_smile:


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## AquaHull

Nat said:


> OMG! What the heck? Are you for real or just taking the P?
> I have just started reading through a few posts and see this one. Are you for real?
> I am from New Zealand and we have a woman leader who ELIMINATED Covid 19 under her direction. I'd say she is pretty amazing. She's not perfect and I don't agree with a lot of her policies. Her fiancée is a cheating a/hole and certainly no help to her in making decisions that affect a whole country.
> Mate, you would not last 5 seconds in NZ with that arrogant sexist attitude. We are headstrong independent women who can organise shit and get stuff done, with or without men.
> I am just hoping that that post was a joke.


So you don't need men? Do you like Steely Dan ?


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## Annie

A few thoughts if I may...

There's always going to be the exceptions, but _in general_ a woman's place is in the home. I've been incredibly blest to be able to stay home, be in charge of the children, care for our aging moms and provide a home life for my family.

Obviously, if a woman has to work in order to pay to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table, then that's what she's got to do. But you know when the cost of housing and inflation started sky rocketing? It was the late 70's, after women began entering the work force en masse. That's sadly ironic.

It's Lenin we have to thank for women's so-called "liberation" Lenin on the 'Liberation' of Women But it's the effeminate men who let it happen.

We all have the same dignity, but men and women are designed differently. And there's got to be one whose in charge. That's the husband. He's a fool if he doesn't consider his wife's advise, but ultimately every ship needs a captain, that's the husband.


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## Slippy

Excellent discussion and no surprise to hear that there are some heroic women in the military. 

Lets examine the public education system in the United States. Pretty FUBAR we all can agree? Well, public education is dominated by female teachers and administrators. Something like 78% are women. Schools sure are messed up.


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## 23897

Slippy said:


> Excellent discussion and no surprise to hear that there are some heroic women in the military.
> 
> Lets examine the public education system in the United States. Pretty FUBAR we all can agree? Well, public education is dominated by female teachers and administrators. Something like 78% are women. Schools sure are messed up.


But slippy, if you look further up the education hierarchy, it is a man in charge of it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slippy

fangfarrier said:


> But slippy, if you look further up the education hierarchy, it is a man in charge of it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Currently, the US Dept of Education is run by a woman, Betsy DeVoss. But to your point, men have done a crappy job with the US Dept of Education too!

The subject of education and government is due its own thread as federal government by nature should not be involved in education at all.


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## 23897

Slippy said:


> Currently, the US Dept of Education is run by a woman, Betsy DeVoss. But to your point, men have done a crappy job with the US Dept of Education too!
> 
> The subject of education and government is due its own thread as federal government by nature should not be involved in education at all.


And her boss is....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slippy

fangfarrier said:


> And her boss is....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The liberal media and a bunch of whiny assed know it all stupid, evil women who make up the education unions? Some commie progressive named Becky Pringle is pres of the largest education union, the NEA


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## 23897

Slippy said:


> The liberal media and a bunch of whiny assed know it all stupid, evil women who make up the education unions?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chipper

I agree 100%. No man enjoys taking orders from a female, it's natural order from the start. Which man allowed to be screwed up, so we have nobody to blame for the problems we have but ourselves.


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## rstanek

Hypothetically speaking of course, the rooster rules the roost, but who rules the rooster? A question every man in a relationship with a woman has to ask himself every now and then.......


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## Old SF Guy

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


 @Dhamp40.... You can't come to a place like this and meet only people like you. A good forum has many varieties of thoughts and positions where the idea is that we engage in conversation in order to learn from each other. Example, there are many women on here that I have learned medical tips from, herbs, farming, and tolerance. If you find yourself easily offended by what is obviously an attempt by the OP to entice you into a baited trap, then you may actually have a weakness that you can improve on. Recognition, deductive logic, and tactical responsiveness, (which doesn't always mean come out with guns a blazing).

m2c....Welcome to the forum


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## jimcosta

Don't take the bait folks. This is the chicken or the egg argument all over again. 

Focus on what is at hand that we need to be prepared for.

Imagine if during the Apollo 13 crisis the engineers in the back room trying to quick engineer death defying solutions took this same bait.


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## 23897

Hey in MY house I wear the trousers. 

(The wife just tells me the colour, style, when to put them on and how to put them on. )


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Redneck

jimcosta said:


> Don't take the bait folks. This is the chicken or the egg argument all over again.
> 
> Focus on what is at hand that we need to be prepared for.


Jim, can you even imagine what this site could be like if everyone posted about prepping with the same passion as politics & other crap?


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## UncleMorgan

Nice trolling, Slippy.

Women deserve respect from a man until they prove they don't.

Most women are at least as capable as most men, and are often more capable when the chips are down.

Men have a basic instinct to kill anything that looks edible and to kill any man that encroaches on their territory.

Most consider "their" women "their" territory.

Women have a basic instinct to protect their children and communicate with other women.

In the process, they learn how to manage males to maximize their usefulness and minimize the problems they cause.

It's an imperfect process, but without women there would no stability in society.

The fact is that most women are in a position of leadership--even when the male half of the familial relationship doesn't know it.

Or refuses to admit it.

Men have gone to extreme lengths to try to render women powerless. Islam is a good example of that. So is Christianity--and all other male-dominated religions.

It's like trying to shovel the ocean with a pitchfork.

Men do what they do, women deal with it. Mostly. They manage the beast much better (and more often) that the beast likes to admit.

I think life would be much better if men (in general) stopped thinking of women as possessions--and inferiors--and started thinking of them as human beings and equals.

I think that's called "evolution".


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## Pobilly Duke

Slippy said:


> Arguably, women who were not landowners, being allowed to vote, then hold office were a huge part of the downfall of the Republic. Lowering the voting age to 18 had a lot to do with it too.
> 
> But most women seem to make decisions based on emotion and not fact.
> 
> Women are critical and must be cherished and protected and often revered. But not in positions of leadership outside the family.
> 
> Questions? Comments?


I do agree most women make decisions based on emotion, I emphasis (Most). 
This is good for the moment, short term, but does not achieve the long term goal, the end game.
Male or female, when emotions come into play, they are generally taken advantage of.

Although, don't get me wrong, women are better suited for allot of positions.
This is my opinion only. .....Critical, survival decisions take ruthless, raw actions.


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## hawgrider

******* said:


> Jim, can you even imagine what this site could be like if everyone posted about prepping with the same passion as politics & other crap?


Imagine the skills you could learn if you took some time away from pulling weeds and applied that to some mechanics such as being able to work on a generator. Which was your excuse for down playing the value of have a generator.


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## AquaHull

fangfarrier said:


> And her boss is....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A Richard?


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## ND_ponyexpress_

I've learned not to mess with Hockey Moms......


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## 65mustang

Nat said:


> OMG! What the heck? Are you for real or just taking the P?
> I have just started reading through a few posts and see this one. Are you for real?
> I am from New Zealand and we have a woman leader who ELIMINATED Covid 19 under her direction. I'd say she is pretty amazing. She's not perfect and I don't agree with a lot of her policies. Her fiancée is a cheating a/hole and certainly no help to her in making decisions that affect a whole country.
> Mate, you would not last 5 seconds in NZ with that arrogant sexist attitude. We are headstrong independent women who can organise shit and get stuff done, with or without men.
> I am just hoping that that post was a joke.


Was she the one who implemented gun control in NZ?? Really worked out well, what was it like 30 some citizens turned in their guns. She tried to disarm the public. Never elect a 2what to do a man's job.


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## Prepared One

OK, I'll step in it. This country started to go to hell in a hand basket the minute we allowed women to drive and vote. There!!!! I said it. :vs_lol:


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## Eyeball

Nat said:


> ..Mate, you would not last 5 seconds in NZ with that arrogant sexist attitude. We are headstrong independent women who can organise shit and get stuff done, with or without men..


Steady on, we Brits conquered NZ for you, otherwise you'd still be doing that haka stuff! 
huh you try to be nice (sniffle)..

PS- you sound like the sort of tough dame we'd want in my survival group like these two who are dealing with a trespasser..


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## T-Man 1066

Man and women are wired different for a reason. To compliment each other. That's why there is no such thing and second generation queers. Get it? It's like a guarantee to follow God's plan. Now that being said, alot of examples of women that have been in roles of leadership have been provided. As a general rule strong men made decisions from a logical assessment that is calculated of risk and reward, with emotions set aside. I am guessing that is what Slippy was steering towards when he started this thread.


And maybe to stimulate the forum. Like shaking a mason jar full of lightning bugs... :vs_smile:


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## Redneck

hawgrider said:


> Imagine the skills you could learn if you took some time away from pulling weeds and applied that to some mechanics such as being able to work on a generator. Which was your excuse for down playing the value of have a generator.


I'm at the age when learning completely new skills ain't gonna happen. I can sharpen the ones I have but my ability to learn something totally new, that I have no aptitude for, is long gone.

BTW, I did not play down the value of a generator. If you note, I said I have some, including a whole house, natural gas unit that auto starts with a power outage. I stated that I personally don't trust them for long term, as I can't fix them... and something is always going wrong with mine. I stated initially, during a SHTF crisis, that stealth was more important than running a loud generator or having lights at night. If you disagree with those comments, then lets discuss that. Don't just be a dick.


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## hawgrider

******* said:


> I'm at the age when learning completely new skills ain't gonna happen. I can sharpen the ones I have but my ability to learn something totally new, that I have no aptitude for, is long gone.
> 
> BTW, I did not play down the value of a generator. If you note, I said I have some, including a whole house, natural gas unit that auto starts with a power outage. I stated that I personally don't trust them for long term, as I can't fix them. I stated initially, during a SHTF crisis, that stealth was more important than running a loud generator or having lights at night. If you disagree with comments, then lets discuss that. Don't just be a dick.


Huge mistake on your part. If you don't wake up every day and learn something it's because you're dead. Bad plan you probably should rethink your position on learning new things.


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## CapitalKane49p

Years ago when I was in the schooling part of my welding apprenticeship a woman journeyman welder passed through the shop re-certifying on some CWB processes. She was tough as nails, a former welding instructor and inspector who had forgotten more about welding TIG, MIG and SMAW than I would ever know. One of the other apprentices a big, ignorant, inbred, lazy, ex-union hack wanna-be type said something to her about women should not be in the trades. You could have heard a pin drop in the shop after the last words came out of his stupid gob. She sliced, diced, julienned him. It was a real blood bath. I still think that stupid twit is picking rods of 7018 and 6010 out of his various orifices. She was a natural leader and I would have followed her through Hell. Can't remember her name but she was the real deal and watching her TIG weld was like having a religious experience. 

Godspeed


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## rice paddy daddy

CapitalKane49p said:


> Slippy
> 
> My friend from another life would like to have a word with you. I just hope she doesn't give you a canoe.
> 
> Meet Lyudmila Pavlichenko
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko
> 
> Godspeed.


I have a copy of her memoirs, "Lady Death".
An excellent soldier and excellent leader.
Like a lot of combat vets drank herself to death.


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## Slippy

UncleMorgan said:


> Nice trolling, Slippy.


I'd feel better if you had just called me a racist, mysogynist, homophobic bigot. :vs_laugh:

(Use of the word "trolling" conjures up images of whiny ass suburban kids and milquetoast men and women who donated sperm and egg to create them...)


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## Slippy

T-Man 1066 said:


> Man and women are wired different for a reason. To compliment each other. That's why there is no such thing and second generation queers. Get it? It's like a guarantee to follow God's plan. Now that being said, alot of examples of women that have been in roles of leadership have been provided. As a general rule strong men made decisions from a logical assessment that is calculated of risk and reward, with emotions set aside. I am guessing that is what Slippy was steering towards when he started this thread.
> 
> And maybe to stimulate the forum. Like shaking a mason jar full of lightning bugs... :vs_smile:


Don't let @T-Man 1066 fool you, he is smarter than he looks!

(Of course, he'd have to be!:vs_laugh: Just kiddin' brother, you are one of the best!):vs_closedeyes:


----------



## Slippy

CapitalKane49p said:


> Years ago when I was in the schooling part of my welding apprenticeship a woman journeyman welder passed through the shop re-certifying on some CWB processes. She was tough as nails, a former welding instructor and inspector who had forgotten more about welding TIG, MIG and SMAW than I would ever know. One of the other apprentices a big, ignorant, inbred, lazy, ex-union hack wanna-be type said something to her about women should not be in the trades. You could have heard a pin drop in the shop after the last words came out of his stupid gob. She sliced, diced, julienned him. It was a real blood bath. I still think that stupid twit is picking rods of 7018 and 6010 out of his various orifices. She was a natural leader and I would have followed her through Hell. Can't remember her name but she was the real deal and watching her TIG weld was like having a religious experience.
> 
> Godspeed


Excellent story!

My Son2, a Journeyman Lineman and Crew Leader, for a major southern US Power Co. He tells the story of an Apprentice Lineman in his company who happens to be female. When this apprentice signed on, the company did a biog write up about her in their quarterly report, one of the few female lineman in his company as well as the industry.

Of course what the corporate write up WON'T tell you is that this female apprentice regularly is exempted from some of the more "shit details" that an apprentice linemen must go through to understand the big picture of a dangerous job. Every crew leader, like my Son2, have no interest in getting this female assigned to them as the stories of her lack of experience due to task exemption, make her a dangerous addition to an already dangerous job.

Due to corporate politics, the smart money is that She will make supervisor in the same amount of years that others take to become Journeyman and most doubt that she will be held to the same physical standards that young men must meet.

We'll see...


----------



## Eyeball

Incidentally I've been posting this pic of where I live around the internet for years, but people say I should be careful in case a lust-crazed woman stalker uses it to track me down and kidnap me at gunpoint to keep me chained up in her cellar as her slave.
I know, that's why I do it, I should be so lucky..


----------



## Slippy

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


On a side note, exactly how overweight are you? :vs_worry:


----------



## Eyeball

Dhamp40 said:


> Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me..


What games does he play? I'm a gamer too and would be happy to challenge him and take him down a peg on your behalf, tell him I'm a-calling him out..

Below is a 6" silver trophy I won for wargaming under my fighting name 'PoorOldSpike', it sits on its own small table in my living room, carefully positioned so that it's the first thing guests see when they arrive, and I can keep steering the conversation towards it during the course of the evening..


----------



## rice paddy daddy

jimcosta said:


> Don't take the bait folks. This is the chicken or the egg argument all over again.
> 
> Focus on what is at hand that we need to be prepared for.
> 
> Imagine if during the Apollo 13 crisis the engineers in the back room trying to quick engineer death defying solutions took this same bait.


Ain't nothing going to happen.
Biden will be sworn in as President, life will go on.
We survived 8 years of Obama.

Ain't nothing going to happen. 
UNLESS Trump, in a fit of pique, starts another war. And, I believe he is immature enough to do so, out of spite.


----------



## Denton

Nat said:


> OMG! What the heck? Are you for real or just taking the P?
> I have just started reading through a few posts and see this one. Are you for real?
> I am from New Zealand and we have a woman leader who ELIMINATED Covid 19 under her direction. I'd say she is pretty amazing. She's not perfect and I don't agree with a lot of her policies. Her fiancée is a cheating a/hole and certainly no help to her in making decisions that affect a whole country.
> Mate, you would not last 5 seconds in NZ with that arrogant sexist attitude. We are headstrong independent women who can organise shit and get stuff done, with or without men.
> I am just hoping that that post was a joke.


If Slippy were a Norse deity, he'd be Loki. He likes to stir things up a bit. 
The only reason he posted this is because his wife isn't a member, here.


----------



## paulag1955

Denton said:


> The only reason he posted this is because his wife isn't a member, here.


OMG, I'm dying. You are hilarious!


----------



## Nat

Yes I definitely need men. They have their uses, like opening jar lids!
Just kidding. I'm married (to a man) and we both do what we do best. 
I do like Steely Dan.


----------



## Denton

Nat said:


> Yes I definitely need men. They have their uses, like opening jar lids!
> Just kidding. I'm married (to a man) and we both do what we do best.
> I do like Steely Dan.


Steely Dan made perfect recordings of fantastic music.


----------



## AquaHull

******* said:


> I'm at the age when learning completely new skills ain't gonna happen. I can sharpen the ones I have but my ability to learn something totally new, that I have no aptitude for, is long gone.
> 
> BTW, I did not play down the value of a generator. If you note, I said I have some, including a whole house, natural gas unit that auto starts with a power outage. I stated that I personally don't trust them for long term, as I can't fix them... and something is always going wrong with mine. I stated initially, during a SHTF crisis, that stealth was more important than running a loud generator or having lights at night. If you disagree with those comments, then lets discuss that. Don't just be a dick.


Is that Stretchen Gretchen ?


----------



## Nat

Nah, they'd never let you into the country.
You would get eaten alive by the first female customs/immigration officer you came across


----------



## Eyeball

rice paddy daddy said:


> ..Ain't nothing going to happen.
> UNLESS Trump, in a fit of pique, starts another war. And, I believe he is immature enough to do so, out of spite.


Funny you should say that, because in the news today is the assassination of a bigshot in the Iranian nuclear power industry.
Some people are saying the Israelis did it, but Trump and the CIA could also have done it to hamper the mullahs nuclear weapon ambitions.


----------



## Nat

Wow-what a woman!


----------



## Slippy

Denton said:


> If Slippy were a Norse deity, he'd be Loki. He likes to stir things up a bit.
> The only reason he posted this is because his wife isn't a member, here.


Slippy puffs out his chest and smiles, "yeah a Norse deity called Loki! Is Loki cool? Hell yeah he is"!

(And Mrs S was out of town yesterday! :vs_lol


----------



## Slippy

Nat said:


> Nah, they'd never let you into the country.
> You would get eaten alive by the first female customs/immigration officer you came across





Nat said:


> Wow-what a woman!


 @Nat

you can quote a message so we know who you are replying to.

Makes it more fun!

Your new friend,

Slippy! :vs_wave:


----------



## Inor

I think this whole suffragette thing has outlived its usefulness. The suffragettes may have been necessary back in the day. But now you cannot swing a dead cat without hitting a bull-**** or some chick that identifies as a dude. I think the time has come for the ladies to make a decision: You can either have the bull-***** and the chick transformers, or you can have women voting and holding leadership positions. You cannot have both.

That is all...


----------



## paulag1955

Inor said:


> I think this whole suffragette thing has outlived its usefulness. The suffragettes may have been necessary back in the day. But now you cannot swing a dead cat without hitting a bull-**** or some chick that identifies as a dude. I think the time has come for the ladies to make a decision: You can either have the bull-***** and the chicks that identify as dudes, or you can have women voting and holding leadership positions. You cannot have both.
> 
> That is all...


The vast majority of women don't subscribe to third wave feminism, which is a leftist ideology that has nothing to do with uplifting women and everything to do with oppressing anyone who doesn't agree with them. So, no, "women" don't need to make up their minds and they don't want it both ways. It's a small, albeit noisy, subset of women that you're talking about, pushed forward by their allies in the media until it seems like they are the majority.


----------



## SAR-1L

Denton said:


> Stand pilot better be keeping the other pilots current while the medics stop bleeding! :tango_face_grin:


She had that background as well, works as a nurse these days.


----------



## Eyeball

I can't help thinking American women let Sarah Palin down by not voting for her and Johnny McCain in 2008.
What a great milestone that would have been for women's rights, from a suffragette torture cell to the White House..


----------



## Slippy

It is apparent that many of you are OK with women in leadership roles.

So, allow me to steer this thread towards a discussion about "Working Married Moms"

I strongly believe that many of our problems stem from Married Mothers in the workforce resulting in a situation where they are not properly raising their children. One of the absolute worst and potentially evil things to do is to have a perfectly capable married women NOT raising her children and dumping them off at a daycare.

And for a Father to allow this to happen, shows that he is certainly not a leader. Not to mention the problems on the marriage that often occurs because of married mothers/women in the worlforce. If you are not going to raise, nurture, love and cherish your children, don't have them. Same goes for a marriage,

If a career is more important, fine. But don't bring innocent precious babies into the world just so you can screw them up.

Discuss...(And I can't wait to hear my good friend, @******* response!)


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> I really enjoy it when a woman takes charge.


That's a man, Baby!!!


----------



## stevekozak

rice paddy daddy said:


> I will submit that this female soldier has more "balls" and leadership capabilities than the overwhelming majority of males on this forum.
> I'd go into combat with her any time.
> 
> https://www.army.mil/article/1645/female_soldier_receives_silver_star_in_iraq


On face value, I agree. That said, I am always suspicious of propaganda pieces, even when (especially when?) put out by current Army leadership.


----------



## Eyeball

Slippy said:


> I strongly believe that many of our problems stem from Married Mothers in the workforce resulting in a situation where they are not properly raising their children...


Yay, my young schoolpal Colin and his brother couldn't bear going back to their cold empty house after school because both their parents were at work, so they went shoplifting in town instead.
Sometimes they'd tag onto us and follow us home just to experience the warmth of our houses because our mums were there.

And young Mike down the road hated being home alone in the long school holidays so he'd deliberately injure himself just to get attention from the paramedics.
I remember them wheeling him out to the ambulance once with blood coming out of his eye, apparently he'd deliberately fallen on a garden fence, and I remember he was actually smiling as they put him in the ambulance, luckily his eye healed okay.


----------



## stevekozak

Denton said:


> I knew this woman when she was a butterbar. Smart, hard charging and made good decisions on the fly. She listened to her NCOs, Learned from our experience and formed her leadership style.
> I was very proud to call her my LT.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_L._Bray


Did I read the article correctly in that she retired 9 years into her military career because of an injury that occurred from her carrying a man-level of weight in her packs?


----------



## stevekozak

UncleMorgan said:


> Nice trolling, Slippy.
> 
> Women deserve respect from a man until they prove they don't.
> 
> Most women are at least as capable as most men, and are often more capable when the chips are down.
> 
> Men have a basic instinct to kill anything that looks edible and to kill any man that encroaches on their territory.
> 
> Most consider "their" women "their" territory.
> 
> Women have a basic instinct to protect their children and communicate with other women.
> 
> In the process, they learn how to manage males to maximize their usefulness and minimize the problems they cause.
> 
> It's an imperfect process, but without women there would no stability in society.
> 
> The fact is that most women are in a position of leadership--even when the male half of the familial relationship doesn't know it.
> 
> Or refuses to admit it.
> 
> Men have gone to extreme lengths to try to render women powerless. Islam is a good example of that. So is Christianity--and all other male-dominated religions.
> 
> It's like trying to shovel the ocean with a pitchfork.
> 
> Men do what they do, women deal with it. Mostly. They manage the beast much better (and more often) that the beast likes to admit.
> 
> I think life would be much better if men (in general) stopped thinking of women as possessions--and inferiors--and started thinking of them as human beings and equals.
> 
> I think that's called "evolution".


But how will our sammiches get made?


----------



## Eyeball

There was a stink a few years ago when F-14 Tomcat pilot Karen "Revlon" Hultgreen crashed, there were allegations that the navy had lowered the bar to make it easier for women pilots to make the grade, resulting in inadequate training, not her fault.


----------



## ActionJackson

Ridin with biden said:


> I definitely agree with church because the good book says for a woman to be silent in church... any of these others I am indifferent and think the position is best filled by the most mentally and morally fit person, male or female...
> 
> Side note = I was filling out paperwork for a couple guns today and I was given 3 options for gender- male female or non-binary, whatever that is


"Non-binary" = Mentally deranged; horribly confused; spiritually ill; queer!


----------



## Back Pack Hack

stevekozak said:


> That's a man, Baby!!!


You would know.


----------



## A Watchman

Oh my Good Lord!

Some of you folks just can't help yourselves and have to try to make the man/women thing about equality. Listen carefully...

My God, the creator made the Adamic Man and Woman entirely different, each with different strengths, duties, responsibilities, and roles. None more important than another. Each of these roles has the aforementioned responsibility built into our psyche and thought processes. We are the ultimate creation made to complement each other... not compete across the sexes for equality or one-upmanship. Each sex should utilize their God-given strengths in the capacity their journey in this world finds them, to the best of their abilities... *and in the proper priority*.

Now, I will agree that all men are not equals, as there is an ever-growing abundance of puss wads amongst us.

Furthermore, I bet Mrs. Slippy would agree with every word in this post. I know Mrs. Watchman agrees and excels in her all of her God-given roles.

If your one of the above-mentioned puss wads, nevermind as you wouldn't understand.


----------



## Slippy

A Watchman said:


> Oh my Good Lord!
> 
> Some of you folks just can't help yourselves and have to try to make the man/women thing about equality. Listen carefully...
> 
> My God, the creator made the Adamic Man and Woman entirely different, each with different strengths, duties, responsibilities, and roles. None more important than another. Each of these roles has the aforementioned responsibility built into our psyche and thought processes. We are the ultimate creation made to complement each other... not compete across the sexes for equality or one-upmanship. Each sex should utilize their God-given strengths in the capacity their journey in this world finds them, to the best of their abilities... *and in the proper priority*.
> 
> Now, I will agree that all men are not equals, as there is an ever-growing abundance of puss wads amongst us.
> 
> Furthermore, I bet Mrs. Slippy would agree with every word in this post. I know Mrs. Watchman agrees and excels in her all of her God-given roles.
> 
> If your one of the above-mentioned puss wads, nevermind as you wouldn't understand.


Yes Sir A Watchman, Mrs S not only agrees with every word I wrote but helped me craft some of the verbiage.


----------



## stevekozak

Back Pack Hack said:


> You would know.


You are being boring. Please don't be boring.


----------



## Back Pack Hack

stevekozak said:


> You are being boring. Please don't be boring.


----------



## Prepared One

Denton said:


> If Slippy were a Norse deity, he'd be Loki. He likes to stir things up a bit.
> The only reason he posted this is because his wife isn't a member, here.


Your not suggesting that Ol' Slip would employ discretion before valor when it comes to laying down the law to his wife, are ya? Say it ain't so!:vs_shocked::vs_lol:


----------



## Eyeball

Ridin with biden said:


> I definitely agree with church because the good book says for a woman to be silent in church..


Whoa, Paul was only laying down some ground rules in the early churches, so in context a few noisy women were probably using the place as a "coffee and gossip" club and he had to tell them to clam up..
Elsewhere in the good book women are right up there strutting their stuff such as
Miriam who saved her baby brother Moses from death when she was just a child, 
Deborah, prophetess, judge and military leader, 
Huldah who taught at the college in Jerusalem.,
Rahab the prostitute who sheltered the two fugitive Israelis,
The evangelist Philip had four daughters who were preachers, 
The early Christian sect in Phrygia was led by Montanus and two preachers, Priscilla and Maximilla..

And Paul paid glowing tributes to women -_"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me.. 
Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you.. 
Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too. 
Greet Julia.." (Romans ch 16)_

And Paul reminds us -
_"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )_

Some of the disciples ran off in fear of the Romans, but women stuck with Jesus to the end-






It's almost as if he knew they'd be there for him, so he made sure he was always there for them when he was alive..


----------



## Prepared One

Slippy said:


> It is apparent that many of you are OK with women in leadership roles.
> 
> So, allow me to steer this thread towards a discussion about "Working Married Moms"
> 
> I strongly believe that many of our problems stem from Married Mothers in the workforce resulting in a situation where they are not properly raising their children. One of the absolute worst and potentially evil things to do is to have a perfectly capable married women NOT raising her children and dumping them off at a daycare.
> 
> And for a Father to allow this to happen, shows that he is certainly not a leader. Not to mention the problems on the marriage that often occurs because of married mothers/women in the worlforce. If you are not going to raise, nurture, love and cherish your children, don't have them. Same goes for a marriage,
> 
> If a career is more important, fine. But don't bring innocent precious babies into the world just so you can screw them up.
> 
> Discuss...(And I can't wait to hear my good friend, @******* response!)


I strongly agree. I think Mom's being in the workforce and leaving the child rearing to day cares and our schools are a big reason we are now discussing how to survive 4, possibly 8, and maybe even 12 years of socialism. Turning over the child rearing to the state will never end well.


----------



## Ridin with biden

I agree that there were many extraordinary women in the Bible but I disagree with Paul laying down "ground rules for the early church ". The text didn't say for women to be silent in church for now but teach in later years, after women get the vote, after men become too absent to lead the church, etc.... it says remain silent. 
I take the new testament as a rule book for all time, not open for my interpretation of how it should be now as opposed to then


----------



## MountainGirl

I cant believe I spent part of my first time back reading this thread. ROFL!!

@*Slippy* - your thread is a hoot! but your horse is long outta that barn. If you guys hadn't have f*kd things up from day one this wouldn't even have been an issue. :vs-kiss:


----------



## stevekozak

MountainGirl said:


> I cant believe I spent part of my first time back reading this thread. ROFL!!
> 
> @*Slippy* - your thread is a hoot! but your horse is long outta that barn. If you guys hadn't have f*kd things up from day one this wouldn't even have been an issue. :vs-kiss:


Welcome back!!! Hope all is well with you and yours!


----------



## MountainGirl

stevekozak said:


> Welcome back!!! Hope all is well with you and yours!


Thanks! All is very well up here on the mountain 

Online time is limited while we're getting ready for winter - so I spend my forum time over in OTP - but now that things are done up here I've time to pop in PF, too! I cant really go back and read everything posted here over the last 3 months...but you can just assume I've clicked Like _(aka 'hells ya!')_ on your posts. :vs_lol:


----------



## Redneck

Slippy said:


> It is apparent that many of you are OK with women in leadership roles.
> 
> So, allow me to steer this thread towards a discussion about "Working Married Moms"
> 
> I strongly believe that many of our problems stem from Married Mothers in the workforce resulting in a situation where they are not properly raising their children. One of the absolute worst and potentially evil things to do is to have a perfectly capable married women NOT raising her children and dumping them off at a daycare.
> 
> And for a Father to allow this to happen, shows that he is certainly not a leader. Not to mention the problems on the marriage that often occurs because of married mothers/women in the worlforce. If you are not going to raise, nurture, love and cherish your children, don't have them. Same goes for a marriage,
> 
> If a career is more important, fine. But don't bring innocent precious babies into the world just so you can screw them up.
> 
> Discuss...(And I can't wait to hear my good friend, @******* response!)


Ha. @Slippy you are a crafty, bourbon drinking troublemaker! 

Might surprise you, but I agree with your comments in general. I think America's never ending quest for more stuff & bigger homes has destroyed the family. To achieve that level of success, to have all this stuff, usually requires both partners to work. Who pays the price? Of course the kids but actually all of society does. Having God kids and working with the youth in church has shown me these kids are craving parental attention... and even discipline. But they don't get it and fail to learn most of life's lessons of how to get along in this world.

I firmly believe kids need a parent to stay home with them. I don't necessarily see it as solely the woman's role. I think we are all different & God equips us all with different strengths. In some situations, it might be best for the dad to stay home. In our case, my wife stayed home until our two boys graduated high school, then she became a teacher. I had the better job and she was a natural care giver... and still is. Of course there was some sacrifice in doing so and not just financial. I can remember working moms putting my wife down for being a homemaker. To this day I can still remember my wife telling me how important it was for her to be there for the kids, especially in the minutes right after school. She said, at that moment, the boys would talk with her about what went on that day and they could have some very fruitful conversations. But she said, wait an hour or more... and they would never talk.

Seems today, few are willing to sacrifice for their kids. It now is all about ME... and possessions. I don't blame the women. I blame both parents.


----------



## Slippy

MountainGirl said:


> I cant believe I spent part of my first time back reading this thread. ROFL!!
> 
> @*Slippy* - your thread is a hoot! but your horse is long outta that barn. If you guys hadn't have f*kd things up from day one this wouldn't even have been an issue. :vs-kiss:


You know me, just tryin' to make people learn, laugh and.......................... cringe! Sometimes a good Lutkfish smell-cringe wakes a person up! :vs_smile:


----------



## Slippy

******* said:


> Ha. @Slippy you are a crafty, bourbon drinking troublemaker!
> 
> Might surprise you, but I agree with your comments in general. I think America's never ending quest for more stuff & bigger homes has destroyed the family. To achieve that level of success, to have all this stuff, usually requires both partners to work. Who pays the price? Of course the kids but actually all of society does. Having God kids and working with the youth in church has shown me these kids are craving parental attention... and even discipline. But they don't get it and fail to learn most of life's lessons of how to get along in this world.
> 
> I firmly believe kids need a parent to stay home with them. I don't necessarily see it as solely the woman's role. I think we are all different & God equips us all with different strengths. In some situations, it might be best for the dad to stay home. In our case, my wife stayed home until our two boys graduated high school, then she became a teacher. I had the better job and she was a natural care giver... and still is. Of course there was some sacrifice in doing so and not just financial. I can remember working moms putting my wife down for being a homemaker. To this day I can still remember my wife telling me how important it was for her to be there for the kids, especially in the minutes right after school. She said, at that moment, the boys would talk with her about what went on that day and they could have some very fruitful conversations. But she said, wait an hour or more... and they would never talk.
> 
> Seems today, few are willing to sacrifice for their kids. It now is all about ME... and possessions. I don't blame the women. I blame both parents.


Atta boy *******! Good to see you agreeing with me again! You're A-Ok in my book!


----------



## MountainGirl

******* said:


> .....Having God kids and working with the youth in church has shown me these kids are craving parental attention... and even discipline. But they don't get it and fail to learn most of life's lessons of how to get along in this world. ...


Says the man who complained in here a few years back about his church youth group out at his place sitting around an evening campfire with their noses in their phones...and you let that happen. Seems you missed an opportunity to offer a little discipline, and for them to learn a lesson about being in real life.


----------



## smokeyquartz

As a woman, I can only comment on the leadership roles of women I have seen in my workplace. I don't have military experience.

The women who have children but continue to work in the workplace end up neglecting either their work or their children. I am a childfree woman and have had superiors in the workplace who were women with children. The "women with children" leaders frequently brushed off their work and responsibilities onto childfree colleagues, like me, while continuing to collect their salary and being physically absent from work. (It was the "work from home" scam before COVID. How much work do you think they got done at home while simultaneously caring for children?). 

There are many childfree women, like me, who resent these mothers taking leadership roles that they don't earn and don't deserve. Whole department meetings must be rearranged around some princess's schedule because of "the children." Important meetings have been canceled because of "soccer games/the child's recital/the child's ill/pick one." At reddit.com, there is a whole forum for childfree people and you can read stories about how many of them are taken advantage of and discriminated against in the workplace in favor of "women with children." 

If you are a woman and you want to lead, then commit yourself to doing that.

If you are a woman and you want to have and raise children, then commit yourself to doing that.

You cannot do both, because one or both will suffer. The "women with children" in the workplace are quite simply and frankly, unreliable workers. 

This is my opinion as a working, childfree woman who has been taken advantage of by "women with children" in the workplace. 

Further - feminism is the reason why these women think they need to be working while still raising children. IT IS YOUR HUSBAND'S JOB TO SUPPORT YOU WHILE YOU RAISE HIS CHILDREN!!! The feminist push towards teaching women to be "independent" has also taught men NOT to fulfill their traditional roles and NOT to support women.


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Whoa, Paul was only laying down some ground rules in the early churches, so in context a few noisy women were probably using the place as a "coffee and gossip" club and he had to tell them to clam up..
> Elsewhere in the good book women are right up there strutting their stuff such as
> Miriam who saved her baby brother Moses from death when she was just a child,
> Deborah, prophetess, judge and military leader,
> Huldah who taught at the college in Jerusalem.,
> Rahab the prostitute who sheltered the two fugitive Israelis,
> The evangelist Philip had four daughters who were preachers,
> The early Christian sect in Phrygia was led by Montanus and two preachers, Priscilla and Maximilla..
> 
> And Paul paid glowing tributes to women -_"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me..
> Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
> Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you..
> Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
> Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
> Greet Julia.." (Romans ch 16)_
> 
> And Paul reminds us -
> _"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )_
> 
> Some of the disciples ran off in fear of the Romans, but women stuck with Jesus to the end-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's almost as if he knew they'd be there for him, so he made sure he was always there for them when he was alive..


The Bible clearly states "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression." I Timothy 2:12-14. Elsewhere, in I Timothy and in Titus, Paul tells us that elders should be the "husband of one wife." That's pretty specific. And I wouldn't be too quick to point to Montanus as an example of scripturally functioning church, as Montanism was an early heresy.


----------



## Denton

Nobody has mentioned what a woman is to do when a man abdicates his responsibilities and leaves his wife. Is she to starve? @Slippy?


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## smokeyquartz

Denton said:


> Nobody has mentioned what a woman is to do when a man abdicates his responsibilities and leaves his wife. Is she to starve? @Slippy?


You go to court and get alimony. It was written in the laws since before the American Revolution. A man always had a legal duty to support his wife while he was still living. But now, thanks to feminism, that cultural standard is being lost.


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## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> The Bible clearly states "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain quiet..


As I pointed out, Paul was simply telling some yappy women to keep their traps shut in the early churches..
But that Pope bloke seems to think it applies to ALL women-










However, most other denominations take a more enlightened view like these Church of England women clergy..










God said- _*"I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will preach" (Joel 2:28) *_


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## ActionJackson

Without order there is chaos:

1) God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)
2) The Church (the one faithful to Christ and that trusts in God's Word, the Holy Bible)
3) The man and leader of the house.
4) The woman: man's wife and man's helpmeet. And, to a lesser degree, co-leader of the house.
5) The children who are to be raised by righteous parents. Parents who provide righteous examples. The children are to honor and obey their parents.

Man is to love his wife as Christ loves His church. Man and wife are to work together as a team and play off of each others' strengths, talents, abilities, and responsibilities.


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## Denton

Eyeball said:


> As I pointed out, Paul was simply telling some yappy women to keep their traps shut in the early churches..
> But that Pope bloke seems to think it applies to ALL women-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, most other denominations take a more enlightened view like these Church of England women clergy..


Actually, you gave supposition while Paula quoted entire verses.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

stevekozak said:


> Did I read the article correctly in that she retired 9 years into her military career because of an injury that occurred from her carrying a man-level of weight in her packs?


Which is EXACTLY WHY females do not belong in the Infantry or Field Artillery. They simply do not have the physical strength and endurance to do the job.
They may be fully qualified in all other areas, but can not either carry the Infantryman's burden or repeatedly feed projectiles into a 105MM or 155MM howitzer.


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> As I pointed out, Paul was simply telling some yappy women to keep their traps shut in the early churches..
> But that Pope bloke seems to think it applies to ALL women-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, most other denominations take a more enlightened view like these Church of England women clergy..


The vast majority of the folks called to be Prophets (both Old and New Testaments) were men. There were a couple of female Prophets. But all 12 Apostles were men. God is spoken of in the masculine. The great Patriarchs (Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jacob's sons (the Twelve heads of the 12 houses of Israel), David, Solomon, Jesus Christ, etc., were all men. But the following passage pretty much says it all:

Speaking of the overseer or "Bishop" of the Church:

*1 Timothy 3:1-4,* *"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;"*

No mention of a woman being an overseer or Bishop.


----------



## Eyeball

Denton said:


> Actually, you gave supposition while Paula quoted entire verses.


My posting style is to keep things short, sharp and to the point because..
_"The more the words,the less the meaning,and how does that profit anyone?" (Bible: Ecc 6:11)_


----------



## Denton

smokeyquartz said:


> You go to court and get alimony. It was written in the laws since before the American Revolution. A man always had a legal duty to support his wife while he was still living. But now, thanks to feminism, that cultural standard is being lost.


Sure; go to court for alimony and child support. The man is making 1,500 a month. That's not much to split, is it? Worse yet, he is a dead beat.

The cultural standard was lost many years ago, before the feminist movement was militant. The head of the household decided that it would be OK for the wife to work outside of the house. After all, there'd be more income for the family, right? What he didn't understand was economics. Rather than putting one paycheck into saving or investment, standard of living increased. Demand for goods and services went up. With that, prices went up. Wives were then trapped.
Had the men protected the family unit rather than buckling to greed, things would be different, so let's not try to place all the blame on women.


----------



## Redneck

MountainGirl said:


> Says the man who complained in here a few years back about his church youth group out at his place sitting around an evening campfire with their noses in their phones...and you let that happen. Seems you missed an opportunity to offer a little discipline, and for them to learn a lesson about being in real life.


I made a comment to them about their phones but most could have cared less. Have you ever worked with youth? Let me give you a hint... it is not a youth leader's job to discipline kids. It is our job to provide them a safe, fun place to fellowship with other youth. We often provide a religious lesson but in youth group that is not the main focus. In such a setting, they will come and let us know their worries and problems... many of which they would never tell their parents. Like a counselor, our job is to listen, maybe offer advise and then keep our mouths shut. Of course we would get involved if they did something horribly wrong or dangerous. But that doesn't mean discipline. Our youth group grew and we had multiple kids come that attended other churches. They wanted to have fun and wanted to be loved & showered with attention. Kids of today crave attention. Their parents are generally too busy or too tired to provide it.

Your comments highlight the problem today. People expect others to discipline their kids. I'm really curious if you have ever worked with teens?


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> My posting style is to keep things short, sharp and to the point because..
> _"The more the words,the less the meaning,and how does that profit anyone?" (Bible: Ecc 6:11)_


Saying that which is not Biblical. Where does that stand? What you are doing doesn't fall into the category of conciseness.


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> T
> *1 Timothy 3:1-4,* *"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;"*
> 
> No mention of a woman being an overseer or Bishop.


The New Testament was written 2000 years ago when male/female traditions were deeply ingrained in society, but nowadays we take a more relaxed view.
Personally I've got no objection to women clergy so long as they're good at it, otherwise they should be booted out just like bad male clergy..


----------



## rice paddy daddy

******* said:


> Ha. @Slippy you are a crafty, bourbon drinking troublemaker!
> 
> Might surprise you, but I agree with your comments in general. I think America's never ending quest for more stuff & bigger homes has destroyed the family. To achieve that level of success, to have all this stuff, usually requires both partners to work. Who pays the price? Of course the kids but actually all of society does. Having God kids and working with the youth in church has shown me these kids are craving parental attention... and even discipline. But they don't get it and fail to learn most of life's lessons of how to get along in this world.
> 
> I firmly believe kids need a parent to stay home with them. I don't necessarily see it as solely the woman's role. I think we are all different & God equips us all with different strengths. In some situations, it might be best for the dad to stay home. In our case, my wife stayed home until our two boys graduated high school, then she became a teacher. I had the better job and she was a natural care giver... and still is. Of course there was some sacrifice in doing so and not just financial. I can remember working moms putting my wife down for being a homemaker. To this day I can still remember my wife telling me how important it was for her to be there for the kids, especially in the minutes right after school. She said, at that moment, the boys would talk with her about what went on that day and they could have some very fruitful conversations. But she said, wait an hour or more... and they would never talk.
> 
> Seems today, few are willing to sacrifice for their kids. It now is all about ME... and possessions. I don't blame the women. I blame both parents.


It is not always a quest for more material things that causes both spouses to work.
In fact, much more often it is high taxes, high interest rates, low pay. But mostly taxes - taxes that take fully 50% of a persons income between local, state and federal tax.

My Mom was a stay at home Mom for my brother and I. My Dad made a decent wage, and in the 1950's federal income tax was 2%. TWO PERCENT!
What is it today?

When our kids were little, both my wife and I had to work. Had to, just to survive.


----------



## Eyeball

Eyeball said:


> My posting style is to keep things short, sharp and to the point because..
> _"The more the words,the less the meaning,and how does that profit anyone?" (Bible: Ecc 6:11)_





Denton said:


> Saying that which is not Biblical. Where does that stand? What you are doing doesn't fall into the category of conciseness.


Sorry mate I don't know what you mean, I always tag the chapter and verse reference onto the Bible quotes to show I'm not making it up..


----------



## smokeyquartz

@Denton Agreed; however, the legal duty of men to continue supporting their wives after divorce _is_ being brought under scrutiny today, and I believe it is due to the cultural shift that began with feminism. It used to be that in the past, a woman who was deserted/divorced by her spouse would be wholly supported by him after the divorce because this was what the law stated. Now, in PA state law at least, the spouse seeking support must state _why they are not able to support themselves_. A woman must provide a reason why she must continue having the man's support after being deserted/divorced. This is what happened in the law office I worked in. And I believe this is due to the influence of feminism. I'm not blaming everything on women; remember that I _am_ a woman.


----------



## Redneck

rice paddy daddy said:


> It is not always a quest for more material things that causes both spouses to work.


I understand that. But is that the situation where children should be born into? I feel if you can't afford kids... don't have them. If you can't afford a bigger house or better car... don't get it. I believe in personal responsibility. Today, many people want it all... and their kids pay the price. People expect their teachers to discipline their kids. Trouble is, teachers don't have time to teach because the kids are so poorly behaved. So yes, get all you can out of life but don't do it at the expense of your kids. Speaking in general here. I don't know your situation. I'm speaking from someone married to a public school teacher and youth leader.


----------



## Eyeball

Like I said earlier, Jesus always had a soft spot for women and they loved him to bits-
_"Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women... Mary Magdalen, Joanna, Susanna; and many others" (Luke 8:1-3)

"Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed his last. There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene and Salome, who followed him and ministered to him when he was in Galilee, and many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem" (Mark 15:37)_

He certainly never told women they couldn't speak in church or that they couldn't be preachers.. 
in fact he confided secrets to them that he wasn't in the habit of telling to every Tom Dick and Harry-


----------



## rice paddy daddy

rice paddy daddy said:


> Which is EXACTLY WHY females do not belong in the Infantry or Field Artillery. They simply do not have the physical strength and endurance to do the job.
> They may be fully qualified in all other areas, but can not either carry the Infantryman's burden or repeatedly feed projectiles into a 105MM or 155MM howitzer.


The US Army's main artillery - the 155MM Self Propelled M109.
Each projectile being loaded by hand weighs 95 pounds.
This is a young man's game. Old farts and females need not apply.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

******* said:


> I understand that. But is that the situation where children should be born into? I feel if you can't afford kids... don't have them. If you can't afford a bigger house or better car... don't get it. I believe in personal responsibility. Today, many people want it all... and their kids pay the price. People expect their teachers to discipline their kids. Trouble is, teachers don't have time to teach because the kids are so poorly behaved. So yes, get all you can out of life but don't do it at the expense of your kids. Speaking in general here. I don't know your situation. I'm speaking from someone married to a public school teacher and youth leader.


First wife is now dead, both daughters are middle age CONSERVATIVE women with kids of their own.
Oh, and you don't need to sound so self righteous.


----------



## MountainGirl

******* said:


> I made a comment to them about their phones but most could have cared less. Have you ever worked with youth? Let me give you a hint... it is not a youth leader's job to discipline kids. It is our job to provide them a safe, fun place to fellowship with other youth. We often provide a religious lesson but in youth group that is not the main focus. In such a setting, they will come and let us know their worries and problems... many of which they would never tell their parents. Like a counselor, our job is to listen, maybe offer advise and then keep our mouths shut. Of course we would get involved if they did something horribly wrong or dangerous. But that doesn't mean discipline. Our youth group grew and we had multiple kids come that attended other churches. They wanted to have fun and wanted to be loved & showered with attention. Kids of today crave attention. Their parents are generally too busy or too tired to provide it.
> 
> Your comments highlight the problem today. People expect others to discipline their kids. I'm really curious if you have ever worked with teens?


It's probably a good thing it wasn't your job to discipline - as you couldn't even create a 'phone-free zone' for a few hours around a campfire. LOL

Parents expect others to raise their kids the right way; others expect the parents to. Circle jerk. But hey, maybe those kids got the attention they crave online... since it wasn't 'your job' to show them a better option.


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> The New Testament was written 2000 years ago when male/female traditions were deeply ingrained in society, but nowadays we take a more relaxed view.
> Personally I've got no objection to women clergy so long as they're good at it, otherwise they should be booted out just like bad male clergy..


I believe that God's holy Word is timeless. What was true with God at the beginning of time will be true with God at the end of this earth age. I do believe that woman may play important roles within the Church but I don't believe they should "oversee" a church. But that's based on my understanding of God's Word.


----------



## Redneck

MountainGirl said:


> It's probably a good thing it wasn't your job to discipline - as you couldn't even create a 'phone-free zone' for a few hours around a campfire. LOL


I'll take that as confirmation you have never worked with teens. Easy to criticize. Hard to actually do.

Oh, and BTW, in light of the nature of this thread, my wife, a female, was youth leader. I assisted her. Oh... the horrors.


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## ActionJackson

******* said:


> I'll take that as confirmation you have never worked with teens. Easy to criticize. Hard to actually do.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, in light of the nature of this thread, my wife, a female, was youth leader. I assisted her. Oh... the horrors.


Females performing important functions within the church isn't the same as overseeing or a pastoring a church. Nobody is saying that a woman can't fill leadership rolls but the Bible (see passage above) is pretty clear when describing men as filling the role of overseer (Bishop).


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## rice paddy daddy

ActionJackson said:


> Females performing important functions within the church isn't the same as overseeing or being a pastoring a church. Nobody is saying that a woman can't fill leadership rolls but the Bible (see passage above) is pretty clear when describing men as filling the role of overseer (Bishop).


Which is why my wife and I left the United Church of Christ in 1992. They voted to allow openly practicing homosexuals to become pastors, and female in a lesbian relationship became a pastor in another congreation.


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## Redneck

ActionJackson said:


> Females performing important functions within the church isn't the same as overseeing or being a pastoring a church. Nobody is saying that a woman can't fill leadership rolls but the Bible (see passage above) is pretty clear when describing men as filling the role of overseer (Bishop).


I'm Methodist. I've had female pastors & district superintendents. Before that, I was Episcopal and anything goes there.


----------



## MountainGirl

******* said:


> I'll take that as confirmation you have never worked with teens. Easy to criticize. Hard to actually do.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, in light of the nature of this thread, my wife, a female, was youth leader. I assisted her. Oh... the horrors.


You'll take what as confirmation? Because I didn't feel like satisfying your curiosity?? Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. LOL

My brother (now a Chaplain in the USN) was in charge of the youth as associate pastor; I assisted him for years, small gatherings and large, mission trips, charity projects. I also ran teen events for local social programs through the YMCA, etc.

It seems, *******, that you think you have it all figured out. You dont. None of us do. We just do the best we can with what we got, and help where we can - mostly by setting an example, and these days, IMO, fighting against the phone addiction suffered by many; especially the young.

Your mileage may vary.


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> The New Testament was written 2000 years ago when male/female traditions were deeply ingrained in society, but nowadays we take a more relaxed view.
> Personally I've got no objection to women clergy so long as they're good at it, otherwise they should be booted out just like bad male clergy..


I don't mean to quarrel but when the Bible was written has nothing to do with it. 
That we have a more "relaxed " view makes us wrong and not the Bible.


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> Sorry mate I don't know what you mean, I always tag the chapter and verse reference onto the Bible quotes to show I'm not making it up..


Post #112. Paula was responding to your less than concise post. Those verses make it glaringly clear that there is no factual basis to suggest Paul was telling women not to be yappy during service. That is a baseless supposition that I've heard, before.


----------



## ActionJackson

rice paddy daddy said:


> Which is why my wife and I left the United Church of Christ in 1992. They voted to allow openly practicing homosexuals to become pastors, and female in a lesbian relationship became a pastor in another congreation.


Lots of denominations are going "the way of the world" these days. Some Baptist churches are now allowing woman and some Lutheran churches are allowing gays. And they're just two of many. If I could find a church aligned with that of Christ and the Apostles I'd attend but I'm afraid too many "isms" have infiltrated most of today's churches which makes finding a biblical church next to impossible to find. Feminism, homosexuality, modernism, Satanism, liberalism, etc. have tainted the modern church in a very significant way.


----------



## ActionJackson

Denton said:


> I don't mean to quarrel but when the Bible was written has nothing to do with it.
> That we have a more "relaxed " view makes us wrong and not the Bible.


Similar to those folks who say that we need to "re-interpret" the Constitution to fit modern life. Nope! The Constitution (like the Bible) should remain fixed. We the People need to conform to God ... not God to us.


----------



## ActionJackson

******* said:


> I'm Methodist. I've had female pastors & district superintendents. Before that, I was Episcopal and anything goes there.


I understand! I know lots of folks who mean well and believe they're doing what's right. Most of them (the ones I know personally) have very little knowledge of the Bible. Church is a social thing more than a spiritual thing with them. If we don't know what the Bible actually teaches then the chances any one of us will adhere to it's edicts is slim to none. I personally believe that it's a responsibility of a Christian to actually read the entire Bible from start to finish. And I also suggest avoiding the "New" versions which are generally spurious.


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> As I pointed out, Paul was simply telling some yappy women to keep their traps shut in the early churches..
> But that Pope bloke seems to think it applies to ALL women-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, most other denominations take a more enlightened view like these Church of England women clergy..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> God said- _*"I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will preach" (Joel 2:28) *_


No, he was not. I mean, perhaps that what he was doing in I Corinthians. But he clearly states in I Timothy that women were not to teach or exercise authority over men in a church setting. The passage from I Corinthians is open to interpretation. The passage from I Timothy is not at all ambiguous. Women have a place in the church, but it's not as pastors or elders. This is a consequence of Eve allowing herself to be deceived by Satan.


----------



## paulag1955

ActionJackson said:


> Lots of denominations are going "the way of the world" these days. Some Baptist churches are now allowing woman and some Lutheran churches are allowing gays. And they're just two of many. If I could find a church aligned with that of Christ and the Apostles I'd attend but I'm afraid too many "isms" have infiltrated most of today's churches which makes finding a biblical church next to impossible to find. Feminism, homosexuality, modernism, Satanism, liberalism, etc. have tainted the modern church in a very significant way.


You could try to find a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) church in your area. PCA is a branch of the Presbyterian Church that broke off when the United Presbyterian Church started to deviate from Scripture. Otherwise, your best bet is a non-denominational, independent church. BUT finding a good independent church _requires_ a believer to be well versed in Scripture so that they can choose wisely.


----------



## Redneck

ActionJackson said:


> I understand! I know lots of folks who mean well and believe they're doing what's right. Most of them (the ones I know personally) have very little knowledge of the Bible. Church is a social thing more than a spiritual thing with them. If we don't know what the Bible actually teaches then the chances any one of us will adhere to it's edicts is slim to none. I personally believe that it's a responsibility of a Christian to actually read the entire Bible from start to finish. And I also suggest avoiding the "New" versions which are generally spurious.


IMO, things haven't changed all that much The adhering to biblical edicts is why Jesus came to save us. He noticed how religion had become all about edicts... and not about love. Of course we have to have rules but rules can't be the end all. Jesus says it best:

*Matthew 22:36-40
King James Version

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.*


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> The New Testament was written 2000 years ago when male/female traditions were deeply ingrained in society, but nowadays we take a more relaxed view.
> Personally I've got no objection to women clergy so long as they're good at it, otherwise they should be booted out just like bad male clergy..


The Bible was written to impart God's truth to mankind. As it says in James, with God there is "no variableness, neither shadow of turning." Or in Hebrews, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and forever." God doesn't change and his truth certainly doesn't change to conform to modern ways of thinking. Whether or not you object to women in the clergy has no bearing on, well, anything.


----------



## Ragnarök

Slippy said:


> Not in church, not in schools, not in tax payer funded elected positions, not in moderator roles, not in PTO/PTA, not in Little League, not in Scouts, etc etc...not in most things.
> 
> But women should most certainly be in leadership roles NEXT to the man of the house, in family situations.
> 
> What say you knuckleheads?


I don't have a problem taking orders from a woman or a man. That is if the are deemed capable.

You stated, "not in most things". What are these areas you are ok with females being leaders?


----------



## rice paddy daddy

paulag1955 said:


> You could try to find a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) church in your area. PCA is a branch of the Presbyterian Church that broke off when the United Presbyterian Church started to deviate from Scripture. Otherwise, your best bet is a non-denominational, independent church. BUT finding a good independent church _requires_ a believer to be well versed in Scripture so that they can choose wisely.


Agreed.
I was raised Presbyterian, in fact that is what is stamped on my 1968 issue dog tags.
However, the Presbyterian Church USA went the way of liberalism so I stopped attending.
There is a PCA in town, started a few years ago, mostly young folks. But I am so burned out on organized religion I attend none.

This area has an abundance of independent Baptist churches that kinda scare me, fundamentalist churches that really scare me, and quite a few Southern Baptist Council churches.
I tried attending, but by the 2nd Sunday people wanted to know who my grandmother was (being a long time local here is VERY important), and where we lived so they could stop by and visit. Nope! Sorry! I want to be left alone, I just want to worship. If I can not do that, see ya around town!! Bye!!


----------



## Ridin with biden

Eyeball said:


> The New Testament was written 2000 years ago when male/female traditions were deeply ingrained in society, but nowadays we take a more relaxed view.
> Personally I've got no objection to women clergy so long as they're good at it, otherwise they should be booted out just like bad male clergy..


Matthew 7:15*-*Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

2 Peter 2:1*-*But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

As for me, anyone who doesn't take the Bible at full meaning on all topics, not just the feel good ones, could be in a little trouble come judgment day


----------



## MountainGirl

rice paddy daddy said:


> Agreed.
> I was raised Presbyterian, in fact that is what is stamped on my 1968 issue dog tags.
> However, the Presbyterian Church USA went the way of liberalism so I stopped attending.
> There is a PCA in town, started a few years ago, mostly young folks. But I am so burned out on organized religion I attend none.
> 
> This area has an abundance of independent Baptist churches that kinda scare me, fundamentalist churches that really scare me, and quite a few Southern Baptist Council churches.
> I tried attending, but by the 2nd Sunday people wanted to know who my grandmother was (being a long time local here is VERY important), and where we lived so they could stop by and visit. Nope! Sorry! I want to be left alone, I just want to worship. If I can not do that, see ya around town!! Bye!!


For you RPD - and me too!!


----------



## smokeyquartz

ActionJackson said:


> Lots of denominations are going "the way of the world" these days. Some Baptist churches are now allowing woman and some Lutheran churches are allowing gays. And they're just two of many. If I could find a church aligned with that of Christ and the Apostles I'd attend but I'm afraid too many "isms" have infiltrated most of today's churches which makes finding a biblical church next to impossible to find. Feminism, homosexuality, modernism, Satanism, liberalism, etc. have tainted the modern church in a very significant way.


This. I'm not Christian, but it makes me wonder why these churches still consider themselves Christian when they follow none of the rules of the Bible. None of them seem to know that homosexuality was specifically condemned in Leviticus. They all sound like a bunch of hippies at Woodstock talking about free love or something. Going to a Christian church today is like watching 'The View.' I don't have any problem with gays, but I think if a church is supposed to be based on the Bible, it should actually follow what it says.


----------



## paulag1955

smokeyquartz said:


> This. I'm not Christian, but it makes me wonder why these churches still consider themselves Christian when they follow none of the rules of the Bible. None of them seem to know that homosexuality was specifically condemned in Leviticus. They all sound like a bunch of hippies at Woodstock talking about free love or something. Going to a Christian church today is like watching 'The View.' I don't have any problem with gays, but I think if a church is supposed to be based on the Bible, it should actually follow what it says.


Christians don't "have a problem with gays." They should love them just like they love everyone else. But that doesn't extend to putting someone who's living an active homosexual lifestyle into a position of leadership in the church.


----------



## jim-henscheli

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


 Translation:"I'm crazy and probably have a tramp stamp and a pitbull"
Also hey everyone.


----------



## Annie

paulag1955 said:


> Christians don't "have a problem with gays." They should love them just like they love everyone else. But that doesn't extend to putting someone who's living an active homosexual lifestyle into a position of leadership in the church.


Part of "loving" them is being afraid for the damnation of their souls. I mean, if I really believe the bible--and I do--I wouldn't want them to suffer the pains of hell. St Paul warms in no uncertain terms to throw them out of the Body of Christ--for their own good.


----------



## Denton

jim-henscheli said:


> Translation:"I'm crazy and probably have a tramp stamp and a pitbull"
> Also hey everyone.


Hey, Jim! Long time no see!


----------



## Annie

Denton said:


> Hey, Jim! Long time no see!


jinx! :tango_face_grin:


----------



## Annie

jim-henscheli said:


> Translation:"I'm crazy and probably have a tramp stamp and a pitbull"
> Also hey everyone.


Hi jim-henschell!


----------



## MountainGirl

Annie said:


> Part of "loving" them is being afraid for the damnation of their souls. I mean, if I really believe the bible--and I do--I wouldn't want them to suffer the pains of hell. St Paul warms in no uncertain terms to throw them out of the Body of Christ--for their own good.


Per google, the Church is considered the Body of Christ. So is St Paul warning that you should throw gays out of the church?



> Google: Several passages in the Bible, including Romans 12:5,1 Corinthians 12:12-27, Ephesians 3:6, 4:15-16 and 5:23, Colossians 1:18 and 1:24. Jesus Christ is seen as the "head" of the body, which is the church, while the "members" of the body are seen as members of the Church.


----------



## MountainGirl

paulag1955 said:


> Christians don't "have a problem with gays." ....


How long have you been speaking for all Christians?


----------



## Slippy

Excellent discussion all! Hopefully we all learned something?

I like to play a little game at meals when we have the whole family around. Its called "What Did You Learn Today". I go around the table and ask everyone what they learned. Its not about a one line answer, because I continue to ask more questions to get everybody talking about whatever it is that some learned. Its really about the discussion that happens after the question is answered.

Anyway, just thought I'd toss that out there!


----------



## Denton

Slippy said:


> Excellent discussion all! Hopefully we all learned something?
> 
> I like to play a little game at meals when we have the whole family around. Its called "What Did You Learn Today". I go around the table and ask everyone what they learned. Its not about a one line answer, because I continue to ask more questions to get everybody talking about whatever it is that some learned. Its really about the discussion that happens after the question is answered.
> 
> Anyway, just thought I'd toss that out there!


I would ignore until I was done eating. If you badgered me, I'd grab my plate and my glass of tea, I'd run to your bedroom, lock the door and after a few minutes I'd loudly announce just how difficult it is to balance a glass of tea on your pillow.


----------



## Annie

MountainGirl said:


> Per google, the Church is considered the Body of Christ. So is St Paul warning that you should throw gays out of the church?


Practicing homosexuals that promote their lifestyles publicly within the Catholic Church, especially the clergy. Yes. Absolutely.


----------



## Eyeball

Ridin with biden said:


> ..anyone who doesn't take the Bible at full meaning on all topics, not just the feel good ones, could be in a little trouble come judgment day


The Old Testament says we should kill witches, gays and adulteresses, do you go along with that?
Remember, if God wanted us to stick with the OT, he wouldn't have sent Jesus to give us the New T.
I think I prefer Jesus's enlightened attitude to adulteresses..


----------



## Eyeball

Denton said:


> I don't mean to quarrel but when the Bible was written has nothing to do with it.
> That we have a more "relaxed " view makes us wrong and not the Bible.


The bottom line is that Jesus never said women couldn't be preachers or speak in church..


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> Lots of denominations are going "the way of the world" these days. Some Baptist churches are now allowing woman and some Lutheran churches are allowing gays..


If you don't like the style of any churches, don't go..
I don't go to any myself, my pals tried to introduce me to some years ago but I always walked out after a few minutes, and once I even walked out before the service began..
Another time I walked out and the vicar chased after me down the street to try to persuade me to come back, it was like trying to break out of Colditz but i managed to give him the slip and make a home run.
I later learnt my pals used to bet among themselves how many minutes I'd stay in the churches, and when I got up and made for the door they'd begin rofling saying "There he goes, I win the bet!"..
If I found a church I felt comfortable with I'd probably stay, but the bottom line is nobody needs a church or clergy anyway. 
Jesus said-
_*"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)*_


----------



## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> Paul..states in I Timothy that women were not to teach or exercise authority over men in a church setting..





Denton said:


> ..there is no factual basis to suggest Paul was telling women not to be yappy during service..


Jesus never told women they couldn't speak in church or be preachers, Paul did.
So who do you want to listen to, Jesus or Paul?..


----------



## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> ..Whether or not you object to women in the clergy has no bearing on, well, anything.


Personally i've got nothing against women becoming clergy on one condition- if they turn out to be no good they should be given the boot the same as lousy male clergy..
And consider this- anybody who thinks women shouldn't be clergy might be accused of sexism and bring Christianity into disrepute, and I'm sure that'd make satan smile.


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> The bottom line is that Jesus never said women couldn't be preachers or speak in church..


So, the bottom line is that you probably do and choose from the Bible.


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> Jesus never told women they couldn't speak in church or be preachers, Paul did.
> So who do you want to listen to, Jesus or Paul?..


So, you don't believe in what the Bible says.


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> As I pointed out, Paul was simply telling some yappy women to keep their traps shut in the early churches..
> But that Pope bloke seems to think it applies to ALL women-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, most other denominations take a more enlightened view like these Church of England women clergy..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> God said- _*"I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will preach" (Joel 2:28) *_


Do not mention what Paul wrote. By your last posts in this thread, you've boxed yourself out of his words.
Stick with logic and reasoning or opt out.


----------



## Eyeball

smokeyquartz said:


> it makes me wonder why these churches still consider themselves Christian when they follow none of the rules of the Bible. None of them seem to know that homosexuality was specifically condemned in Leviticus..


Yeah but Lev is in the harsh OT, whereas Jesus came to give us the enlightened New T.
We know the early Christian churches accepted ex-gays _*"..and that is what some of you were.." (1 Cor 6:9-11)*_
but whether they accepted practising gays I very much doubt.
Incidentally, God only zapped Sodom/Gomorrah because they were the nasty depraved militant sort of gays, but i'm sure we all don't mind the friendly type..


----------



## Eyeball

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people..Some are rally cool some are racists pigs.


Depends what you mean by "racists". They might regard themselves as patriots defending their country against foreign aggression..


----------



## Eyeball

Denton said:


> So, the bottom line is that you probably do and choose from the Bible.


Sure, Paul told some noisy women to stop their yapping in church, but he had no beef with sensible women and says so in Romans ch 16-

_*"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me.. 
Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you.. 
Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too. 
Greet Julia.."*_

And he reminds us- 
_*"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )*_

Even God himself is non-sexist-
_*"In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. On my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will speak." (Joel 2:28-32) *_


----------



## Eyeball

Below; a woman street preacher in action in Leicester (England); she can take comfort knowing that Jesus has spoken her name to God with his own lips..
Jesus said:-
_*"Say you're mine in front of people, and I'll say I'm yours in front of my Father" (Matt 10:32)
*_


----------



## A Watchman

Eyeball said:


> Sure, Paul told some noisy women to stop their yapping in church, but he had no beef with sensible women and says so in Romans ch 16-
> 
> _*"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me..
> Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
> Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you..
> Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
> Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
> Greet Julia.."*_
> 
> And he reminds us-
> _*"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )*_
> 
> Even God himself is non-sexist-
> _*"In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. On my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will speak." (Joel 2:28-32) *_


I'll have to re read Romans 16... so the three classes of women are noisy, yappers, and sensible? :tango_face_wink:


----------



## Eyeball

A Watchman said:


> I'll have to re read Romans 16... so the three classes of women are noisy, yappers, and sensible? :tango_face_wink:


Yup you got it mate, but luckily sensible women outnumber the others and are the sort every man wants..

_"Oh Judy Judy Judy i do love you so".._


----------



## Ridin with biden

Eyeball said:


> The Old Testament says we should kill witches, gays and adulteresses, do you go along with that?
> Remember, if God wanted us to stick with the OT, he wouldn't have sent Jesus to give us the New T.
> I think I prefer Jesus's enlightened attitude to adulteresses..


Well considering I put a verse from Matthew and a verse from second peter, and your response is I'm stuck in the old testament, I would strongly recommend you stop your false prophesying ol buddy, or go on and find a place to move to in the Sahara so you can get yourself acclimated to a hotter temperature hahahaha


----------



## Eyeball

Ridin with biden said:


> I would strongly recommend you stop your false prophesying ol buddy, or go on and find a place to move to in the Sahara so you can get yourself acclimated to a hotter temperature hahahaha


MWAAAH now you've upset me, tell her mate-


----------



## ActionJackson

paulag1955 said:


> You could try to find a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) church in your area. PCA is a branch of the Presbyterian Church that broke off when the United Presbyterian Church started to deviate from Scripture. Otherwise, your best bet is a non-denominational, independent church. BUT finding a good independent church _requires_ a believer to be well versed in Scripture so that they can choose wisely.


Unfortunately, I live in southern Utah which means that I'm surrounded by LDS and FLDS believers. Ironically, those two groups have little to do with each other. The negative side to this is that I'm surrounded by a large group of people who have seriously deviated from the teachings of the Bible and who've added lots of man's writings to their belief system. The good news is that they seem to reject homosexuality and feminism for the most part. They're generally conservative in their political views as well. So I would rather live here than in an area crawling with Crips and Bloods.

However, I will never attend one of their church gatherings. And trust me ... they have a Mormon church on every other street corner.

There is also a United Baptist Church and a Roman Catholic church in town. And though I may be willing to attend a Southern Baptist Church (tentatively) I won't attend the UBC or the RC churches. The UBC has gone "the way of the world" and the RC teaches many, many, many non-biblical doctrines based on man's traditions.

I don't believe I've seen a Presbyterian Church in town but perhaps I'll start looking more closely.


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> The Old Testament says we should kill witches, gays and adulteresses, do you go along with that?
> Remember, if God wanted us to stick with the OT, he wouldn't have sent Jesus to give us the New T.
> I think I prefer Jesus's enlightened attitude to adulteresses..


Speaking of killing. Christ will send many to "the lake of fire" upon His return. He will severely punish them who teach false doctrine and who reject Him as the Son of God. God is just and He will keep His word. He's warned mankind since the beginning of time that they have a choice. Faith in Him or rejection of Him. Them who reject Him will die "the second death."

What's more ... we're all going to die the first death so death is a part of life. I do agree that "witches, gays, and adulterers" can repent and find salvation in Christ but the ones who continue rejecting Him and embracing their heinous sins deserve the just reward for their ongoing sin which is death and damnation. Do I rejoice in this? Not at all but I do rejoice in the fact that God is true and that He's just. That's something I can trust to the very core of my being.


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> Jesus never told women they couldn't speak in church or be preachers, Paul did.
> So who do you want to listen to, Jesus or Paul?..


Paul was an Apostle of Jesus Christ. He was given the authority to preach the Word of God. God called him to the ministry. But the entire Bible is God-inspired so it doesn't really matter which "man" took part in writing it. What matters is that the men God chose to write it were led by the Holy Spirit. The Bible is God's holy Word. If we reject even a little bit of it as being true then we can't trust any of it as being true. We, as men, are not free to pick and choose those portions of the Bible we like and reject those portions that we don't like. We can't judge the Bible based on man's whims but must judge man's whims against the teachings of the Bible.


----------



## ActionJackson

paulag1955 said:


> Christians don't "have a problem with gays." They should love them just like they love everyone else. But that doesn't extend to putting someone who's living an active homosexual lifestyle into a position of leadership in the church.


True. We're all sinners who fall short of the Glory of God. Our righteousness is but filthy rags before the righteousness of a perfect God. However, like you say above, we don't place folks who are willing participants in a sinful lifestyle in positions of leadership. We wouldn't put an active child molester or serial killer or embezzler or burglar or rapist behind the pulpit so why would we sanction an active homosexual?

All of us are called to repentance and the Bible is clear that a leader of a church should be a man married to a wife. Straight marriage is foundational to Christian doctrine (Starting with Adam and Eve). It's foundational to a healthy family. A healthy community starts with a series of healthy families. Without it there is chaos, confusion, and conflict like we're seeing today.


----------



## ActionJackson

******* said:


> IMO, things haven't changed all that much The adhering to biblical edicts is why Jesus came to save us. He noticed how religion had become all about edicts... and not about love. Of course we have to have rules but rules can't be the end all. Jesus says it best:
> 
> *Matthew 22:36-40
> King James Version
> 
> 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
> 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
> 38 This is the first and great commandment.
> 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
> 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.*


Two great commandments, indeed!! But God "loves" His creation enough to punish them when they do wrong. We spank a child when he or she does wrong -- not because we hate them or enjoy hurting them but because we want them to learn right from wrong and that there are consequences in real life for doing wrong. God, not man, created His "edicts." Did He do so because He just wanted to be mean or because He wanted to point us towards righteousness? God's edicts are a direct result of His love for us. When we understand His edicts we understand what He expects from us. If we fall short, we're called to repent of our sin which is to say that we turn away from our sin and seek righteousness. That includes homosexuals.


----------



## czmead

Eyeball said:


> Jesus never told women they couldn't speak in church or be preachers, Paul did.
> So who do you want to listen to, Jesus or Paul?..


Paul was made an apostle by Jesus, so you are required to listen to him.

If you don't believe Paul to be an apostle then you're a heretic.

Sent from my VIEW 1 using Tapatalk


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## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> The Bible is God's holy Word. If we reject even a little bit of it as being true then we can't trust any of it as being true..


But some bits are opposite to other bits, so which bits should we follow?


----------



## czmead

Eyeball said:


> But some bits are opposte to other bits, so which bits should we follow?


Give an example

Sent from my VIEW 1 using Tapatalk


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## Eyeball

czmead said:


> Give an example


For examp the Old T says to kill adulteresses, but Jesus went around rescuing them from mobs, so should we side with the mobs or with him?


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## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> But some bits are opposte to other bits, so which bits should we follow?


As a person who's been discussing the Bible with atheists and agnostics for almost 30 years, I've heard this argument many, many times. My initial response is and always has been: Please present the apparent contradictions so we can discuss them. In most cases, that's where the conversation ends. There definitely are several instances where it may appear that a contradiction exists but there's always a good explanation as to why.


----------



## Eyeball

czmead said:


> Paul was made an apostle by Jesus, so you are required to listen to him.
> If you don't believe Paul to be an apostle then you're a heretic.


Paul got fed up of people following him so he reminded them to follow Jesus and not himself-
Paul said- 
_*"One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you?" (1 Cor 1:12/13)*_

and as i've said before, Jesus never banned women from speaking or preaching in church..


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> For examp the Old T says to kill adulteresses, but Jesus went around rescuing them from mobs, so should we side with the mobs or with him?


You're speaking of the adultress who the Pharisees wanted to stone to death. Christ never sanctioned her behavior and He was even allowing them to "cast the first stone" at her. However, He made it clear that whoever did cast that stone must be someone who, himself, was free of sin. So He didn't do away with the law that called for the death penalty for adultery but He appealed to the law of mercy. He also told the woman to "sin no more."

The very word "sin" means: "Transgression of the Law."


----------



## czmead

Eyeball said:


> For examp the Old T says to kill adulteresses, but Jesus went around rescuing them from mobs, so should we side with the mobs or with him?


Did it really. In the OT you had to have two witnesses to establish any fact. How many people commit adultery and are caught by two direct witnesses.

Jesus accomplished the same thing by destroying the credibility of the witnesses so that the woman has no accusers.

Sent from my VIEW 1 using Tapatalk


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## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> Paul got fed up of people following him so he reminded them to follow Jesus and not himself-
> Paul said-
> _*"One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
> Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you?" (1 Cor 1:12/13)*_
> 
> and as i've said before, Jesus never banned women from speaking or preaching in church..


God didn't ban women from speaking in Church but He made it abundantly clear that they were not to lead a church. Scripture is very clear on that point.


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> Christ will send many to "the lake of fire" upon His return. He will severely punish them who teach false doctrine and who reject Him as the Son of God..


That's another example worth mentioning, a lot of so-called Christians say Jesus WAS God, but others say he WASN'T, and that he was only the SON of God.
Who's correct?


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> God didn't ban women from speaking in Church but He made it abundantly clear that they were not to lead a church. Scripture is very clear on that point.


And yet there are many women church leaders around, how do you explain that?


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> That's another example worth mentioning, a lot of so-called Christians say Jesus WAS God, but others say he WASN'T, and that he was only the SON of God.
> Who's correct?


Trust the Bible ... not men. Jesus Christ is "the living Word."

*John 1:1 & 14,* *"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."*

*Matthew 1:23,* *"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
*
There are many other passages that help prove that Jesus Christ is "God in the flesh."


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> And yet there are many women church leaders around, how do you explain that?


There are many homosexual church leaders. There are many child molester church leaders. There are many false prophet church leaders. So just because there are "a lot" of folks who reject the teachings of the Bible leading churches doesn't make it more correct or acceptable.


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> ..There are many other passages that help prove that Jesus Christ is "God in the flesh."


But if Jesus is God, why did he say-

_*"I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )

"Why do you call me good? Only God is good" (Luke 18:19)

"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
*_


----------



## Ridin with biden

Eyeball said:


> And yet there are many women church leaders around, how do you explain that?


1 Corinthians 14 34*Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35*And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Read scripture, no opinions or theories or "personal views "


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> There are many homosexual church leaders. There are many child molester church leaders. There are many false prophet church leaders. So just because there are "a lot" of folks who reject the teachings of the Bible leading churches doesn't make it more correct or acceptable.


If we don't like a church for any reason, we don't have to go, there are some real stinkers out there..


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> But if Jesus is God, why did he say-
> 
> _*"I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
> 
> "Why do you call me good? Only God is good" (Luke 18:19)
> 
> "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
> *_


Jesus Christ is 100% man (Jesus) and 100% God (Christ).

In the following passage, He is spoken of as "the creator."

*Colossians 1:14-17*, *"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."*

*John 8:58,* *"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."*

God plays three roles: Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Different roles ... one God.

Bill plays several rolls: Father, husband, son, brother, etc. All different positions but still Bill in every case.


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> If we don't like a church for any reason, we don't have to go, there are some real stinkers out there..


Agreed!! Many hundreds (thousands?) of denominations. All using different versions of the Bible and some (apparently) not using the Bible at all. Some take away from the Word of God. Some add to the Word of God. Few there be that actually adhere and teach the Word of God.


----------



## Eyeball

Ridin with biden said:


> 1 Corinthians 14 34*Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
> 
> 35*And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


Paul only wrote that to the troublesome church in Corinth (Greece) he had to go bust their asses more than once..
Paul wrote to them- _*"I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I won't spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others" (2 Corinthians 13:2) *_

but it doesn't necessarily mean he wanted the "no women" rule to also apply to every other christian church then or now..


----------



## Ridin with biden

Eyeball said:


> Paul only wrote that to the troublesome church in Corinth (Greece) he had to go bust their asses more than once..
> Paul wrote to them- _*"I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I won't spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others" (2 Corinthians 13:2) *_
> 
> but it doesn't necessarily mean he wanted the "no women" rule to also apply to every other christian church then or now..


2 Timothy 3:16-17

English Standard Version

16*All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness

All scripture is breathed out by God... again I am showing you scripture and you are giving me opinions and theories...read your Bible and stop trying to rewrite it is my advice ol buddy


----------



## paulag1955

ActionJackson said:


> Unfortunately, I live in southern Utah which means that I'm surrounded by LDS and FLDS believers. Ironically, those two groups have little to do with each other. The negative side to this is that I'm surrounded by a large group of people who have seriously deviated from the teachings of the Bible and who've added lots of man's writings to their belief system. The good news is that they seem to reject homosexuality and feminism for the most part. They're generally conservative in their political views as well. So I would rather live here than in an area crawling with Crips and Bloods.
> 
> However, I will never attend one of their church gatherings. And trust me ... they have a Mormon church on every other street corner.
> 
> There is also a United Baptist Church and a Roman Catholic church in town. And though I may be willing to attend a Southern Baptist Church (tentatively) I won't attend the UBC or the RC churches. The UBC has gone "the way of the world" and the RC teaches many, many, many non-biblical doctrines based on man's traditions.
> 
> I don't believe I've seen a Presbyterian Church in town but perhaps I'll start looking more closely.


I understand your dilemma. One of my daughters lives in West Jordan. When you look, remember PCA not United Presbyterian. You won't like the latter.


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Jesus never told women they couldn't speak in church or be preachers, Paul did.
> So who do you want to listen to, Jesus or Paul?..


I guess we can just keep the red letter parts of the Bible and throw the rest away, then.

Good grief, what a ridiculous argument. The whole Bible is God-breathed.


----------



## SAR-1L

Slippy said:


> It is apparent that many of you are OK with women in leadership roles.
> 
> So, allow me to steer this thread towards a discussion about "Working Married Moms"


Since we didn't give the answer you wanted, it is now time to alter the argument to get the answer you want?



Slippy said:


> I strongly believe that many of our problems stem from Married Mothers in the workforce resulting in a situation where they are not properly raising their children.


I believe you are talking about core values, which used to be passed on from our parents as that is who we would spend most of our time with any time before the 1970s. After that approximately 1970s to 2000's core values were provided to youth through their peers, and a little MTV. 2000+ our core values are shaped by social media, which is the most extreme/polarized and divisive narrative on any given topic and has nothing to do with social health, and p.s. is affecting all current living generations.



Slippy said:


> One of the absolute worst and potentially evil things to do is to have a perfectly capable married women NOT raising her children and dumping them off at a daycare.


You believe that men should be the breadwinner, women belong in the home to be submissive to their husbands. Welcome to America, the right/freedom to choose. Well at least before it took both parents with incomes + them working a full + part-time additional job just to make ends meet. ( not even because they are wasteful with their income. )



Slippy said:


> And for a Father to allow this to happen, shows that he is certainly not a leader.


So basically one man outleveraged by the actions of 7 billion other people is a weak withered pair of balls not worth your respect?



Slippy said:


> Not to mention the problems on the marriage that often occurs because of married mothers/women in the worlforce.


So if you don't own your wife like property, you aren't a man, and your marriage will fail?



Slippy said:


> If a career is more important, fine. But don't bring innocent precious babies into the world just so you can screw them up.


As previously stated to survive, most don't get the choice, and on top of that what type of world would you be bringing a kid into now? It is why my wife and I won't have kids.

The great thing about America, is we all have the right to believe what we like. Don't believe I am a man cause my wife works, cool. Think women should be owned like property and kept in a white picket fence cage, outdated, but be with someone that wants that lifestyle. The world has changed significantly, and while I know I won't change your mind, I don't see myself as less than you, because my wife and I are working as a team, both parts equal for both of us to have a reasonable quality of life.

_Detecting, salt in this post? Basically, cause I am seeing intolerance in this thread for the right of others to exist in their own way. You live your life the way you decide, or the bible dictates, however, don't impose your beliefs on others and insult/judge them for living differently than you. Not sure how we went from women's ability to lead to the bible's doctrine being the only way for one to live life. I think this thread is well derailed from it's original topic._


----------



## Denton

Eyeball said:


> Sure, Paul told some noisy women to stop their yapping in church, but he had no beef with sensible women and says so in Romans ch 16-
> 
> _*"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me..
> Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
> Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you..
> Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
> Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
> Greet Julia.."*_
> 
> And he reminds us-
> _*"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )*_
> 
> Even God himself is non-sexist-
> _*"In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. On my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will speak." (Joel 2:28-32) *_


Again, there is nowhere in the Bible that suggests Paul was saying for women not to be yapping during service. That is an opinion you read and it was used as unBiblical rationalization.

Again, you are quoting verses that do not support your unBiblical argument. Paula laid it out for you. She made it clear using the specific verses that stated the reason, none of the reasons being the one you continue to assert. Either you know the truth and willfully ignore it or you simply can't be reached because you believe the lie that you were told is somewhere between the lines. Either way, this is a waste of time.


----------



## Annie

@SAR-1L I'd never presume to judge why some women work outside the home and frankly its none of my business what other women do.

That said, may I ask you your opinion? if money weren't an issue, do you think it'd be best for most women (again, not all just in general) to stay home and raise the children? And, assuming money isn't the problem because the family's basic needs are being met, is it her obligation as a mom to stay home even if she doesn't want to?


----------



## Annie

Eyeball said:


> If we don't like a church for any reason, we don't have to go, there are some real stinkers out there..


And these days under our commie regime our masters can lock down the churches on a whim. So sometimes we can't go even if we want to. Put that in yer pipe an smoke it. :tango_face_wink: What's it like across the pond these days? Can people go to church if they want to?


----------



## Eyeball

Annie said:


> And these days under our commie regime our masters can lock down the churches on a whim. So sometimes we can't go even if we want to. Put that in yer pipe an smoke it. :tango_face_wink: What's it like across the pond these days? Can people go to church if they want to?


I think the pubs, clubs, restaurants and churches might be closed over here but Boris is running around in a tizzy constantly changing the rules, and nobody has a clue any more..
Personally the lockdown doesn't affect me one iota, I still sit on the computer all day and only go out to the grocers twice a week exactly as I've been doing for the past 20 years.
The streets are mostly empty and traffic is very rare and I'm LURVING it because every day feels like Sunday, peaceful and quiet and more spiritual.
(Between you and me I've been praying to God for years to put an end to the insane rat-racing materialistic world and perhaps he agrees with me)..

_*"Be still and know that I am God.." (Psalm 46:10)*_


----------



## SAR-1L

Annie said:


> @SAR-1L I'd never presume to judge why some women work outside the home and frankly its none of my business what other women do.


100% this is on point, I feel the same way.



Annie said:


> That said, may I ask you your opinion? if money weren't an issue, do you think it'd be best for most women (again, not all just in general) to stay home and raise the children? And, assuming money isn't the problem because the family's basic needs are being met, is it her obligation as a mom to stay home even if she doesn't want to?


In general, I believe a woman, should have the option, not the requirement, money shouldn't be the obstacle. Unfortunately, a big difference between reality and expectation in the Should vs. Is argument. Overall I think it takes an entire village to raise a human to their full potential. There are a lot of parents these days really screwing their kids up, just like there are daycare providers doing the same. The biggest problem, "my opinion", is that our society as a whole has let core values of respecting others and valuing life deteriorate.

It is alarmingly commonplace the level of disrespect and the level of disregard for others by the general majority.


----------



## Eyeball

Ridin with biden said:


> 2 Timothy 3:16-17
> English Standard Version
> 16*All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness
> All scripture is breathed out by God... again I am showing you scripture and you are giving me opinions and theories...read your Bible and stop trying to rewrite it is my advice ol buddy


The Old T scriptures say to kill witches, gays and adulteresses.
You can do that stuff if you like but include me out because-

_*"The covenant of which Jesus is mediator is superior to the old one" (Hebrews 8:6)

"The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17)

"Through Jesus we are saved, and not through Moses" (Acts 13:39)

"Jesus saved you from the empty way of life handed you by your forefathers" (1 Peter 1:18 )

"We serve in the new way of the spirit, not in the old way of the written code" (Romans 7:6)
*_


----------



## Slippy

SAR-1L said:


> Since we didn't give the answer you wanted, it is now time to alter the argument to get the answer you want?
> 
> I believe you are talking about core values, which used to be passed on from our parents as that is who we would spend most of our time with any time before the 1970s. After that approximately 1970s to 2000's core values were provided to youth through their peers, and a little MTV. 2000+ our core values are shaped by social media, which is the most extreme/polarized and divisive narrative on any given topic and has nothing to do with social health, and p.s. is affecting all current living generations.
> 
> You believe that men should be the breadwinner, women belong in the home to be submissive to their husbands. Welcome to America, the right/freedom to choose. Well at least before it took both parents with incomes + them working a full + part-time additional job just to make ends meet. ( not even because they are wasteful with their income. )
> 
> So basically one man outleveraged by the actions of 7 billion other people is a weak withered pair of balls not worth your respect?
> 
> So if you don't own your wife like property, you aren't a man, and your marriage will fail?
> 
> As previously stated to survive, most don't get the choice, and on top of that what type of world would you be bringing a kid into now? It is why my wife and I won't have kids.
> 
> The great thing about America, is we all have the right to believe what we like. Don't believe I am a man cause my wife works, cool. Think women should be owned like property and kept in a white picket fence cage, outdated, but be with someone that wants that lifestyle. The world has changed significantly, and while I know I won't change your mind, I don't see myself as less than you, because my wife and I are working as a team, both parts equal for both of us to have a reasonable quality of life.
> 
> _Detecting, salt in this post? Basically, cause I am seeing intolerance in this thread for the right of others to exist in their own way. You live your life the way you decide, or the bible dictates, however, don't impose your beliefs on others and insult/judge them for living differently than you. Not sure how we went from women's ability to lead to the bible's doctrine being the only way for one to live life. I think this thread is well derailed from it's original topic._


First off @SAR-1L you know me better than that! I'm NOT looking for the answer that I want, I'm looking for an honest answer from those who choose to answer. Most people know my stance on these issues. I simply was expanding the thread to include another aspect of the discussion.

I thought I knew most people's answers and very few surprised me. Regardless, I thought it was a good exercise and didn't attempt to change anybody's minds.


----------



## SAR-1L

Slippy said:


> First off @SAR-1L you know me better than that! I'm NOT looking for the answer that I want, I'm looking for an honest answer from those who choose to answer. Most people know my stance on these issues. I simply was expanding the thread to include another aspect of the discussion.
> 
> I thought I knew most people's answers and very few surprised me. Regardless, I thought it was a good exercise and didn't attempt to change anybody's minds.


Yeah, I like to ask questions in a way to provoke a response at times, cause I like to drive people into clear definitive answers on where they stand. Hopefully, you know I respect you. I kinda feel parenthood while is a form of leadership it is a topic deserving of its own thread and needs to be clearly distinguished from leadership. I have met plenty of parents & leaders that could do one or the other very well respectively, while tanking pretty hard on the opposite, very few do both well at the same time, as it is such a tall order.

I do feel I am seeing more preaching in the forums than I remember from a few years ago. I don't mind people speaking their personal truth, but it is a bit much for me when religious doctrine is preached as the difference between good and evil people. I know there is some scripture or something, that reinforces some of that topic and I don't want to open that can of worms.

Just so everyone understands my hard pushbacks on preachy sermons, comes from a childhood of getting my shit kicked in, whipped with belt buckles, bullwhips, etc by little bastards that would go to church on Sundays and the judgment and bs from folks that were "religious". I know not all Christians are like that, some of my friends are what I consider to be the more authentic reality of it. Yet I still can't help but see pompous righteous punks spouting and judging on others from podiums and pews, and it infuriates me. Especially when religion is used to put people down/oppress people.

I will say I believe the role of a woman has changed a lot since the '60s, as our world has changed. I believe bad parenting results in poor outcomes for the child. Some of the worst parenting can come from a parent that didn't choose to be one. I also believe good parenting can come from other sources outside the biological parent (even if it shouldn't have to) otherwise we are negating the value of step-parents, parents who adopt, etc.


----------



## ActionJackson

SAR-1L said:


> Yeah, I like to ask questions in a way to provoke a response at times, cause I like to drive people into clear definitive answers on where they stand. Hopefully, you know I respect you. I kinda feel parenthood while is a form of leadership it is a topic deserving of its own thread and needs to be clearly distinguished from leadership. I have met plenty of parents & leaders that could do one or the other very well respectively, while tanking pretty hard on the opposite, very few do both well at the same time, as it is such a tall order.
> 
> I do feel I am seeing more preaching in the forums than I remember from a few years ago. I don't mind people speaking their personal truth, but it is a bit much for me when religious doctrine is preached as the difference between good and evil people. I know there is some scripture or something, that reinforces some of that topic and I don't want to open that can of worms.
> 
> Just so everyone understands my hard pushbacks on preachy sermons, comes from a childhood of getting my shit kicked in, whipped with belt buckles, bullwhips, etc by little bastards that would go to church on Sundays and the judgment and bs from folks that were "religious". I know not all Christians are like that, some of my friends are what I consider to be the more authentic reality of it. Yet I still can't help but see pompous righteous punks spouting and judging on others from podiums and pews, and it infuriates me. Especially when religion is used to put people down/oppress people.
> 
> I will say I believe the role of a woman has changed a lot since the '60s, as our world has changed. I believe bad parenting results in poor outcomes for the child. Some of the worst parenting can come from a parent that didn't choose to be one. I also believe good parenting can come from other sources outside the biological parent (even if it shouldn't have to) otherwise we are negating the value of step-parents, parents who adopt, etc.


Interestingly, I've known a lot of non-Christians who can be "preachy" as well. They're quick to condemn Christians if or when they don't adhere to a particular mindset -- especially one espoused by "the world" (generally the popular trend of the times).

A popular talk-show host (who happens to be an atheist) decided that it was appropriate to call all Christians "mentally ill" (paraphrasing). He's set himself up as the all-knowing authority and looks down upon all who disagree with his anti-Christ stance. So "preachiness" isn't exclusively attributed to Christians.

I used to get spanked with a belt by a Baptist minister, my dad. I could have used my punishment as a reason to reject Christianity but I've chosen to recognize it as correction for my bad decisions. Today, I'm grateful that my dad loved me enough to want me to embrace Christ instead of embracing a life of crime or immorality. But that's just my perspective.


----------



## Maine-Marine

KUSA said:


> Here's at least one example of why you are wrong.


you apparent do not remember when her son got lost while in a cross country car race in algeria... she stopped governing for 2 weeks

she may well be one of the exceptions


----------



## Maine-Marine

Slippy said:


> Arguably, women who were not landowners, being allowed to vote, then hold office were a huge part of the downfall of the Republic. Lowering the voting age to 18 had a lot to do with it too.
> 
> But most women seem to make decisions based on emotion and not fact.
> 
> Women are critical and must be cherished and protected and often revered. But not in positions of leadership outside the family.
> 
> Questions? Comments?


I believe that we would be better off if women did not have the vote. Too many of them vote for abortion "rights" over anything else... they do not care about security, welfare of the nation, economy, ... as long as they can kill the unborn up to the time of birth that is what matters.

too many let feelings cloud long term benefits.. yes their exceptions.. but they are few and far between


----------



## SAR-1L

ActionJackson said:


> Interestingly, I've known a lot of non-Christians who can be "preachy" as well. They're quick to condemn Christians if or when they don't adhere to a particular mindset -- especially one espoused by "the world" (generally the popular trend of the times).


You aren't wrong.



ActionJackson said:


> A popular talk-show host (who happens to be an atheist) decided that it was appropriate to call all Christians "mentally ill" (paraphrasing). He's set himself up as the all-knowing authority and looks down upon all who disagree with his anti-Christ stance. So "preachiness" isn't exclusively attributed to Christians.


I don't agree that Christians are "mentally ill" or that it is wrong to have a faith system. I just don't like when people take their interpretation of something as license and justification to dictate how people live or dehumanize someone.



ActionJackson said:


> I used to get spanked with a belt by a Baptist minister, my dad. I could have used my punishment as a reason to reject Christianity but I've chosen to recognize it as correction for my bad decisions. Today, I'm grateful that my dad loved me enough to want me to embrace Christ instead of embracing a life of crime or immorality. But that's just my perspective.


Well, I think you are taking something I am saying and applying your own meaning.

I got my ass whipped plenty by my father. On the other hand, 3-4 kids jumping another kid in a locker room beating him with the metal buckle end of their belts isn't a correction, it is just hateful little punks looking for someone to treat like a dog. There is a far difference when your parent is correcting behavior, or maybe you think I had it coming, and therefore, I deserved to have bruises for weeks, my eyes swollen shut at times, and literally beaten bloody.

I can tell you getting the shit beat out of me didn't bring me closer to Jesus, but it did teach me a lot about how cruel & dangerous people can be, and that you don't need to provide them a reason for them to pick you as a target for getting their own poison out.


----------



## ActionJackson

paulag1955 said:


> You could try to find a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) church in your area. PCA is a branch of the Presbyterian Church that broke off when the United Presbyterian Church started to deviate from Scripture. Otherwise, your best bet is a non-denominational, independent church. BUT finding a good independent church _requires_ a believer to be well versed in Scripture so that they can choose wisely.


Just checked online. The closest PCA churches to me are in Salt Lake City (about 4 hours from me) and Las Vegas (about 3 hours away). In searching, it appears that there's a southern Baptist church nearby. I may check it out so see what they have to offer. If they play "rock and roll" hymns then it won't be for me. I do like Rock and Roll but I don't believe in turning hymns into pop hits.


----------



## SAR-1L

Maine-Marine said:


> I believe that we would be better off if women did not have the vote.


So you are saying women shouldn't have the right to vote?



Maine-Marine said:


> Too many of them vote for abortion "rights" over anything else... they do not care about security, welfare of the nation, economy, ... as long as they can kill the unborn up to the time of birth that is what matters.


How many is too many? So women that serve in the military join up for abortion "rights", and don't care about national security, the welfare of the nation?



Maine-Marine said:


> too many let feelings cloud long term benefits.. yes their exceptions.. but they are few and far between


You are saying men don't let emotions influence their decision making?


----------



## ActionJackson

SAR-1L said:


> You aren't wrong.
> 
> I don't agree that Christians are "mentally ill" or that it is wrong to have a faith system. I just don't like when people take their interpretation of something as license and justification to dictate how people live or dehumanize someone.
> 
> Well, I think you are taking something I am saying and applying your own meaning.
> 
> I got my ass whipped plenty by my father. On the other hand, 3-4 kids jumping another kid in a locker room beating him with the metal buckle end of their belts isn't a correction, it is just hateful little punks looking for someone to treat like a dog. There is a far difference when your parent is correcting behavior, or maybe you think I had it coming, and therefore, I deserved to have bruises for weeks, my eyes swollen shut at times, and literally beaten bloody.
> 
> I can tell you getting the shit beat out of me didn't bring me closer to Jesus, but it did teach me a lot about how cruel & dangerous people can be, and that you don't need to provide them a reason for them to pick you as a target for getting their own poison out.


I'm wholly opposed to beating the hell out of someone for malicious reasons. I got pummeled more than once as a kid. I was small for my age which made me a target of the bullies. And I don't believe in spanking kids for every reason under the sun. I think a good spanking should be a last resort. This is how my dad handled things: He'd say, "if you do that again you're going to get a spanking." Being the rebel that I was ... I'd test him and do whatever it was over again (tease sister, etc.). He, being a man of his word, would give me the promised spanking and I can't think of a time that I didn't have it coming.

I also don't believe that a preacher should ridicule someone into "believing." That's the wrong approach. I believe in following Christ's example. Preach the Gospel and emphasize mankind's need to repent of his sin. Plant the seed then let the Holy Spirit do the watering. As a Christian one of my duties is to spread the Gospel message. However, it's not my job to judge a man's heart and soul. That's Christ's job. I'm way too much of a sinner to fill that position.


----------



## paulag1955

ActionJackson said:


> Just checked online. The closest PCA churches to me are in Salt Lake City (about 4 hours from me) and Las Vegas (about 3 hours away). In searching, it appears that there's a southern Baptist church nearby. I may check it out so see what they have to offer. If they play "rock and roll" hymns then it won't be for me. I do like Rock and Roll but I don't believe in turning hymns into pop hits.


You may be disappointed with the music. Let me know if you go and what you thought.


----------



## SAR-1L

ActionJackson said:


> I'm wholly opposed to beating the hell out of someone for malicious reasons.


Glad to hear this, a lot of people these days seem to blame the person assuming they did something wrong. I have a big chip on my shoulder regarding that issue. In all fairness, many of the ways I communicate with people on these forums were at times what riled up other kids, so not much has changed. I just wasn't going to let someone intimidate me away from speaking my mind. So sometimes I opened my mouth and won a prize for it later.

Usually though if I was opening my mouth, it is cause I was either trying to add value, and the person didn't appreciate it, or I thought someone was crossing the line. Sadly these days outside of a forum, I don't offer opinion or expertise period unless paid for it. Everyone has a problem with everything now, and things escalate way too quickly with people now, plus now it isn't enough to fistfight someone always has to bring guns or knives to the party now.

We've gotten stupid as a society.



ActionJackson said:


> I got pummeled more than once as a kid. I was small for my age which made me a target of the bullies.


Sorry to hear that, being the biggest kid wasn't any better they just knew they had to bring friends.


----------



## KUSA

Maine-Marine said:


> you apparent do not remember when her son got lost while in a cross country car race in algeria... she stopped governing for 2 weeks
> 
> she may well be one of the exceptions


She probably took two weeks off to find him.


----------



## ActionJackson

SAR-1L said:


> Glad to hear this, a lot of people these days seem to blame the person assuming they did something wrong. I have a big chip on my shoulder regarding that issue. In all fairness, many of the ways I communicate with people on these forums were at times what riled up other kids, so not much has changed. I just wasn't going to let someone intimidate me away from speaking my mind. So sometimes I opened my mouth and won a prize for it later.
> 
> Usually though if I was opening my mouth, it is cause I was either trying to add value, and the person didn't appreciate it, or I thought someone was crossing the line. Sadly these days outside of a forum, I don't offer opinion or expertise period unless paid for it. Everyone has a problem with everything now, and things escalate way too quickly with people now, plus now it isn't enough to fistfight someone always has to bring guns or knives to the party now.
> 
> We've gotten stupid as a society.
> 
> Sorry to hear that, being the biggest kid wasn't any better they just knew they had to bring friends.


^^:vs_peace:^^

Having been a member of many forums over the past 20 years (or more?) I've learned that no two people agree on everything all of the time. I can disagree with someone vehemently and still remain civil in our discourse. I have a feeling that even people who disagree on a few issues probably have a ton of things in common. I also hesitate to ostracize other conservatives (Constitutionalists, gun lovers, etc.) who may not see things the way I do. You never know when we may need to rely on each other if (when?) a serious set of circumstances rears its ugly head.


----------



## ActionJackson

Maine-Marine said:


> I believe that we would be better off if women did not have the vote. Too many of them vote for abortion "rights" over anything else... they do not care about security, welfare of the nation, economy, ... as long as they can kill the unborn up to the time of birth that is what matters.
> 
> too many let feelings cloud long term benefits.. yes their exceptions.. but they are few and far between


I think our Founding Fathers knew what they were doing. Too bad we didn't adhere to their example and wisdom.

By the way ... you forum name "Maine-Marine" sounds very familiar to me. Perhaps we were members of another forum at some time.


----------



## SAR-1L

ActionJackson said:


> ^^:vs_peace:^^
> 
> Having been a member of many forums over the past 20 years (or more?) I've learned that no two people agree on everything all of the time. I can disagree with someone vehemently and still remain civil in our discourse. I have a feeling that even people who disagree on a few issues probably have a ton of things in common. I also hesitate to ostracize other conservatives (Constitutionalists, gun lovers, etc.) who may not see things the way I do. You never know when we may need to rely on each other if (when?) a serious set of circumstances rears its ugly head.


That is the key, we may disagree, but we don't have to as the kids say... WREEEEEEE!!!!


----------



## ActionJackson

SAR-1L said:


> That is the key, we may disagree, but we don't have to as the kids say... WREEEEEEE!!!!


Hahahahaha! :tango_face_grin:


----------



## SAR-1L

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


Speaking of WRREEEEEEE!!!! How did I miss this little gem of a post?


----------



## paulag1955

SAR-1L said:


> Speaking of WRREEEEEEE!!!! How did I miss this little gem of a post?


You may have blocked it out of your memory because it was just so good.


----------



## ActionJackson

Dhamp40 said:


> Wow I thought I could come on here and meet some like minded people. Some are rally cool some are racists pigs. U want to zero on my location cool. Dont think my man isn't loaded to protect us. I will shoot to kill dont threaten me. I came on here trying to be nice and make friends.but I guess someone always has to ruin it for everyone. Guess of u have a small dick u gotta make up for it by talking shit to no one. Coward. There are women and men who want to be cool and help each other. Otherwise when TSHTF we are all out for ourselves. Just cause I said my man is a gamer doesn't mean hes stupid he just thinks hes better than me. Which seems just like u. Grow up. What goes around comes as round


You can still make friends - and - I didn't see anyone threatening you. If you disagree with someone simply present your reasons for disagreeing and try to win folks over to your way of thinking. No biggy if they don't. I've been on the planet for 60 years and still haven't found anyone who agrees with me all the time. I've been threatened a few times throughout my life. I usually take "online" threats with a grain of salt. I'm properly prepared for the real variety. Life's too short to stress over the small potatoes.


----------



## SAR-1L

paulag1955 said:


> You may have blocked it out of your memory because it was just so good.


Kinda happens when people threaten to shoot to kill from their keyboard trenches. If I have take it seriously, probably time to get the cops involved, cause then you are likely dealing with the next active shooter, and that shit is no joke. One reason we all need to calm down these days.


----------



## Denton

SAR-1L said:


> So you are saying women shouldn't have the right to vote?
> 
> How many is too many? So women that serve in the military join up for abortion "rights", and don't care about national security, the welfare of the nation?
> 
> You are saying men don't let emotions influence their decision making?


Funny thing, women's right to vote.
Work Wifey and I disagree on that. She says that we are in the bind that we are, today, because women are able to vote. She says they are more likely to act on emotion and are likely to be less informed on the topics because of that.
She is a woman. A logical and rational woman and I usually take counsel from her, but this is a time when I have to disagree.
Men and women are not equal, and we all know that, but both sexes have a brain in their heads. If Work Wifey can think logically, so can any other woman. She disagrees, but I prefer to allow people to make wrong decisions than to deny them to make a decision at all.


----------



## A Watchman

Denton said:


> Funny thing, women's right to vote.
> Work Wifey and I disagree on that. She says that we are in the bind that we are, today, because women are able to vote. She says they are more likely to act on emotion and are likely to be less informed on the topics because of that.
> She is a woman. A logical and rational woman and I usually take counsel from her, but this is a time when I have to disagree.
> Men and women are not equal, and we all know that, but both sexes have a brain in their heads. If Work Wifey can think logically, so can any other woman. She disagrees, but I prefer to allow people to make wrong decisions than to deny them to make a decision at all.





Maine-Marine said:


> I believe that we would be better off if women did not have the vote. Too many of them vote for abortion "rights" over anything else... they do not care about security, welfare of the nation, economy, ... as long as they can kill the unborn up to the time of birth that is what matters.
> 
> too many let feelings cloud long term benefits.. yes their exceptions.. but they are few and far between


There are single-issue voters, and there is the bigger picture that is driven by many issues, with voters that consider them all and strive to become informed voters. The majority of women do not make it to the big picture, at least not informed.


----------



## SAR-1L

Have to agree with you on this one as well Denton. Everything but the Men and women not being equal, hoping you mean, "different". I think both a man and a woman are of equal value, just different.


----------



## Denton

SAR-1L said:


> Have to agree with you on this one as well Denton. Everything but the Men and women not being equal, hoping you mean, "different". I think both a man and a woman are of equal value, just different.


Equal means just that. We aren't. Women proved themselves to be a PC experiment nightmare in the field. They aren't equal.

Women birth children and are much better at nurturing the offspring. Men are not at all equal.

A Ford and a Chevy of equal value and quality are different.

Splitting hairs? You might say that, but that's how I am with language. It's a gift. It's a curse.


----------



## paulag1955

Denton said:


> Funny thing, women's right to vote.
> Work Wifey and I disagree on that. She says that we are in the bind that we are, today, because women are able to vote. She says they are more likely to act on emotion and are likely to be less informed on the topics because of that.
> She is a woman. A logical and rational woman and I usually take counsel from her, but this is a time when I have to disagree.
> Men and women are not equal, and we all know that, but both sexes have a brain in their heads. If Work Wifey can think logically, so can any other woman. She disagrees, but I prefer to allow people to make wrong decisions than to deny them to make a decision at all.


I've often said that I would willingly give up my right to vote if other women weren't allowed to vote either, but honestly, I've never really meant it.


----------



## stevekozak

SAR-1L said:


> Some of the worst parenting can come from a parent that didn't choose to be one.


This caught my eye. What parents didn't choose to be one? When a man sticks his business inside a woman, he is making a choice to do so. When a woman opens her legs to let a man stick his business inside her, then she is making a choice to do so. With the exception of rape, when a person is having sex, they are making the choice to take the risk of becoming a parent. I think sex is like guns. There are far more "negligent discharges" (pun intended) than here are "accidental discharges".


----------



## stevekozak

SAR-1L said:


> I got my ass whipped plenty by my father. On the other hand, 3-4 kids jumping another kid in a locker room beating him with the metal buckle end of their belts isn't a correction, it is just hateful little punks looking for someone to treat like a dog. There is a far difference when your parent is correcting behavior, or maybe you think I had it coming, and therefore, I deserved to have bruises for weeks, my eyes swollen shut at times, and literally beaten bloody.
> 
> I can tell you getting the shit beat out of me didn't bring me closer to Jesus, but it did teach me a lot about how cruel & dangerous people can be, and that you don't need to provide them a reason for them to pick you as a target for getting their own poison out.


I have two questions about this:
1. What does Christianity have to do with these kids beating you? Did they say "In the name of Christ we beat you"? If the kids claimed to be Christians and were beating you without provocation, then they were not Christians.
2. Why did this happen more than once? I am not blaming the victim here, please don't mistake that, I am just genuinely curious about it. I can see it happening once, but not twice, at least without one or more of those kids getting a knife in the belly. (not advocating stabbing other kids, but that is what would have happened when I was young and if it happened to me.) Please enlighten.


----------



## Annie

Denton said:


> Funny thing, women's right to vote.
> Work Wifey and I disagree on that. She says that we are in the bind that we are, today, because women are able to vote. She says they are more likely to act on emotion and are likely to be less informed on the topics because of that.
> She is a woman. A logical and rational woman and I usually take counsel from her, but this is a time when I have to disagree.
> Men and women are not equal, and we all know that, but both sexes have a brain in their heads. If Work Wifey can think logically, so can any other woman. She disagrees, but I prefer to allow people to make wrong decisions than to deny them to make a decision at all.


Men and women both get their good sense by the grace of God, not because of their gender. The real problem with women voting is that it splits families. It can be divisive. A husband and wife should decide and vote as one.


----------



## stevekozak

ActionJackson said:


> Just checked online. The closest PCA churches to me are in Salt Lake City (about 4 hours from me) and Las Vegas (about 3 hours away). In searching, it appears that there's a southern Baptist church nearby. I may check it out so see what they have to offer. If they play "rock and roll" hymns then it won't be for me. I do like Rock and Roll but I don't believe in turning hymns into pop hits.


The Southern Baptists turned to letting women be ministers and allowing gays to be leaders many years ago.


----------



## Denton

stevekozak said:


> The Southern Baptists turned to letting women be ministers and allowing gays to be leaders many years ago.


I think you have the wrong denomination. 
We have pastors, not ministers. Women aren't pastors and homosexuals aren't "leaders."


----------



## Denton

Annie said:


> Men and women both get their good sense by the grace of God, not because of their gender. The real problem with women voting is that it splits families. It can be divisive. A husband and wife should decide and vote as one.


Voting statistics don't agree with you. 
From my experience, spouses generally are in agreement. Not all, of course, but most. 
I know that I'd never marry an atheist/liberal. Such an ideological difference would create too much friction.


----------



## paulag1955

stevekozak said:


> The Southern Baptists turned to letting women be ministers and allowing gays to be leaders many years ago.


I think you may be confused. The Southern Baptist Convention does not support homosexuals or women as pastors. Some churches may call women filling roles in the church (such as Director of Children's Sunday School) pastors, but they're not ordained. Practicing homosexuals are not allowed in any leadership positions. Now...as you may or may not know, Southern Baptist Churches are autonomous, meaning that the SBC exerts no control over the hiring and firing of pastors. So it could be that there are scattered churches that have allowed women or gays to serve, but it's not condoned.


----------



## SAR-1L

stevekozak said:


> This caught my eye. What parents didn't choose to be one? When a man sticks his business inside a woman, he is making a choice to do so. When a woman opens her legs to let a man stick his business inside her, then she is making a choice to do so. With the exception of rape, when a person is having sex, they are making the choice to take the risk of becoming a parent. I think sex is like guns. There are far more "negligent discharges" (pun intended) than here are "accidental discharges".


Well, besides the obvious, choosing to be a parent isn't just in the heat of the moment (pun intended), some parents decide to stop being/acting like parents after they have the kid, or they are negligent in their duties as a parent, that specifically is what I am referring to.


----------



## Denton

SAR-1L said:


> Well, besides the obvious, choosing to be a parent isn't just in the heat of the moment (pun intended), some parents decide to stop being/acting like parents after they have the kid, or they are negligent in their duties as a parent, that specifically is what I am referring to.


Even with a strong and anchored culture, not every child will have a good start. In this "society," lacking it's foundation's roots, the next generation is in serious shape.


----------



## SAR-1L

stevekozak said:


> I have two questions about this:
> 1. What does Christianity have to do with these kids beating you? Did they say "In the name of Christ we beat you"? If the kids claimed to be Christians and were beating you without provocation, then they were not Christians.
> 
> 2. Why did this happen more than once? I am not blaming the victim here, please don't mistake that, I am just genuinely curious about it. I can see it happening once, but not twice, at least without one or more of those kids getting a knife in the belly. (not advocating stabbing other kids, but that is what would have happened when I was young and if it happened to me.) Please enlighten.





stevekozak said:


> 1. What does Christianity have to do with these kids beating you? If the kids claimed to be Christians and were beating you.


This, one moment pretending to be one way around teachers and adults, and then being malicious little shits like their parents, when they thought no one was looking. They had great reputations and piss poor character if you get what I mean.



stevekozak said:


> 2. Why did this happen more than once? I can see it happening once, but not twice....


Man, I didn't know rapist, murders, robbers, and terrorist stop after doing it just once... thanks for the heads up.



stevekozak said:


> ... at least without one or more of those kids getting a knife in the belly. (not advocating stabbing other kids, but that is what would have happened when I was young and if it happened to me.) Please enlighten.


Yeah, cause doing that wouldn't have consequences, especially for your family when your father was a cop.



> Please enlighten.


Most guys I have known that would actually stab someone vs. talking about it, don't bother with snarky little quips like this.


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> ..A popular talk-show host (who happens to be an atheist) decided that it was appropriate to call all Christians "mentally ill" (paraphrasing)..


He might have a point, I'm a christian and on the spur of the moment gave £25 (33 US dollars) to three homeless people (two men and a woman) who were huddled in a church porch the other day, boy am i nuts..
Incidentally my dad thought i was nutty as a kid, he once kicked me like a dog because I'd thrown some orange peel down the toilet and it was too buoyant to flush..
And once I heard him say to my mam about me - "He's nutty! No don't laugh, I really do mean it, he wastes all his pocket money on silly plastic model aeroplanes then hangs 'em on string from his bedroom ceiling in full view of the street, I dread to think what the neighbours are saying about him,when's he going to start saving his money instead?"
Perhaps he'd have preferred me to join the local street gang and run wild with them instead of sitting quietly up in my room building models..


----------



## Eyeball

Annie said:


> Men and women both get their good sense by the grace of God, not because of their gender. The real problem with women voting is that it splits families. It can be divisive. A husband and wife should decide and vote as one.


At voting times a good idea would be for hubs and wives to sit down together and discuss which candidate to vote for, based on what each candidate says.
For example Biden is going to give Iran permission to continue with its nuclear industry, the by-products of which can be used to make nuke weapons.
So if I was an American family man, I'm sure my wife and I would regard that as a threat to the security of us and our kids, and we'd vote for Trump.

My point is that we should sift through what candidates say and make a priority list, and the threat of WW3 would top the list by far.


----------



## Eyeball

SAR-1L said:


> ..I do feel I am seeing more preaching in the forums than I remember from a few years ago..


Depends what you mean by "preaching", and anyway this thread is partly a religious thread (the word 'church' is in its opening post)..

Technically Jesus was an alien who was able to bend reality to perform what looked like miracles with a "superscience" that we know nothing about, and that kinda grabs me..
_*"I am not of this world ....though you do not believe me, believe the miracles" (John 8:23,John 10:38)*_

Jesus also said- _*"I'll tell you things hidden since the creation of the world" (Matt 13:35)*_
Hey Spock, as Science Officer will you listen to an alien visitor?

_"Affirmative, I'm all ears".._


----------



## Annie

Eyeball said:


> At voting times a good idea would be for hubs and wives to sit down together and discuss which candidate to vote for, based on what each candidate says.
> For example Biden is going to give Iran permission to continue with its nuclear industry, the by-products of which can be used to make nuke weapons.
> So if I was an American family man, I'm sure my wife and I would regard that as a threat to the security of us and our kids, and we'd vote for Trump.
> 
> My point is that we should sift through what candidates say and make a priority list, and the threat of WW3 would top the list by far.


Yes. That's very serious for sure. But even more important and higher on my list are the rights of the unborn because they are the most innocent and defenseless of all. I really think that any government that can't be trusted with the rights of the unborn isn't going to care a dime about my life, either.


----------



## Annie

Denton said:


> Voting statistics don't agree with you.
> From my experience, spouses generally are in agreement. Not all, of course, but most.
> I know that I'd never marry an atheist/liberal. Such an ideological difference would create too much friction.


What statistics are you referring to?


----------



## Annie

SAR-1L said:


> 100% this is on point, I feel the same way.
> 
> In general, I believe a woman, should have the option, not the requirement, money shouldn't be the obstacle. Unfortunately, a big difference between reality and expectation in the Should vs. Is argument. Overall I think it takes an entire village to raise a human to their full potential. There are a lot of parents these days really screwing their kids up, just like there are daycare providers doing the same. The biggest problem, "my opinion", is that our society as a whole has let core values of respecting others and valuing life deteriorate.
> 
> It is alarmingly commonplace the level of disrespect and the level of disregard for others by the general majority.


I tend to think that most women would prefer to stay home and raise their kids if money weren't an issue. BTW, I was a family daycare provider for a while when my own children were younger. It's incredibly hard work. But being a working mom outside the home seems like it would be much harder. I honestly don't know how working moms get everything done. How do you have a family life and do everything that needs to get done around the house while working full time? Even a part time job would be a lot of hours away from the laundry, the kitchen, the household chores and taking care of the family members themselves.


----------



## stevekozak

Denton said:


> I think you have the wrong denomination.
> We have pastors, not ministers. Women aren't pastors and homosexuals aren't "leaders."


I have not had dealings with the denomination since sometime in the 80's, but that was what was happening then. I had family members that split from that denomination over it. Maybe things changed again. My understanding is that pastors lead a church. Those ordained in the ministry are ministers. All pastors are ministers. All ministers are not pastors. Again things may have changed since I last had knowledge.


----------



## stevekozak

paulag1955 said:


> I think you may be confused. The Southern Baptist Convention does not support homosexuals or women as pastors. Some churches may call women filling roles in the church (such as Director of Children's Sunday School) pastors, but they're not ordained. Practicing homosexuals are not allowed in any leadership positions. Now...as you may or may not know, Southern Baptist Churches are autonomous, meaning that the SBC exerts no control over the hiring and firing of pastors. So it could be that there are scattered churches that have allowed women or gays to serve, but it's not condoned.


See my answer to Denton. Things may have changed. I don't pretend to be an expert on it, I just remember a schism in my extended family about it in the IIRC early 80s. I probably should have said nothing without more direct knowledge.


----------



## Denton

stevekozak said:


> I have not had dealings with the denomination since sometime in the 80's, but that was what was happening then. I had family members that split from that denomination over it. Maybe things changed again. My understanding is that pastors lead a church. Those ordained in the ministry are ministers. All pastors are ministers. All ministers are not pastors. Again things may have changed since I last had knowledge.


Nope. None are ministers, then or now. No women or homosexual pastors, then or now. The SBA is very conservative. I've grown up and stayed with that denomination and I was born in 63.


----------



## Demitri.14

The problem is that the feminist movement has thrust women into leadership positions they had no business being there ( Same for Blacks) Just because they had to prove a point. You hear it all the time. Look at Obama, The libtards grabbed some "Community Organizer" from the hood and made him a senator, then sent him to the Whitehouse, just so we could have our 1st "Black President". Hillary was supposed to be the 1st Women President, If she had not been so dishonest and selfish, she might have won and been good at it. ( Gladly we will never know). So Now the Demonrats shoved Kamel Hairs in there, knowing that at some time in the next 4 years she will sit in the Big Seat. Everyone will rejoice because we now have a women in the whitehouse. I suspect she will totally F it up. Not because she is a women, but because she is a Libtard of the 4th degree and she wants to prove a point.


----------



## Slippy

Its apparent that most of you knuckleheads cannot agree on shat. 

That means that most of you knuckleheads are NOT democrap libtards. IF you were democrap libtards, everyone would agree that women should not only be in control of everything AND should lead by example of killing their babies. 

The sheer fact that most of you cannot agree with others makes you a modern day repube-can. Soicetal norms and media influences rule many of your lives. Morality, common sense and compassion for family and children take a back seat to your modern day principles.

I think this little thread is a pretty good example of why we are so FUBAR'd.

Thanks for participating...Slippy out of this thread!

:vs_wave:


----------



## stevekozak

SAR-1L said:


> This, one moment pretending to be one way around teachers and adults, and then being malicious little shits like their parents, when they thought no one was looking. They had great reputations and piss poor character if you get what I mean.
> 
> Man, I didn't know rapist, murders, robbers, and terrorist stop after doing it just once... thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Yeah, cause doing that wouldn't have consequences, especially for your family when your father was a cop.
> 
> Most guys I have known that would actually stab someone vs. talking about it, don't bother with snarky little quips like this.


I am not sure if you really misunderstood what I as saying/asking, or if you have chosen to. I will give the benefit of the doubt.

I understand the kind of kids you are talking about. I don't think they are representative of Christians as a whole.

Robbers, terrorists, rapists, etc do not typically stop at one time. My point was about someone letting these same people perpetrate on them more than once, if they had the power to prevent it.

I didn't say (didn't think I would need to) that there would not be consequences for defending yourself by whatever means necessary. It is a choice to be made. You made yours. It was different than the choice I would have made. That is fine. I am not posting about being beat on by my peers with belt buckles multiple times.

"Please enlighten" was not a snarky quip. It was a respectful request for information. If you want, I can from now on just say "Tell me the damn facts, SAR".

You forewarned that you are touchy about the subject. You were definitely truthful about that.


----------



## stevekozak

Denton said:


> Nope. None are ministers, then or now. No women or homosexual pastors, then or now. The SBA is very conservative. I've grown up and stayed with that denomination and I was born in 63.


I will acquiesce to your direct experience and knowledge on the subject. I do remember the family members talking about some change that had occurred at a convention and that the churches were going to allow women and homosexuals to be church leaders. They (the relatives) were at least solidly convinced of it, and left that church and became IIRC, United Baptists or some such.

At any rate, I am glad to hear that the changes did not occur in your church.


----------



## Prepared One

So, after 26 pages, have we concluded that we keep women barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen? Or not? :devil:


----------



## stevekozak

Prepared One said:


> So, after 26 pages, have we concluded that we keep women barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen? Or not? :devil:


I'm just here to make sure my sammichs are still getting made. I'm just here for the sammichs......


----------



## A Watchman

stevekozak said:


> I will acquiesce to your direct experience and knowledge on the subject. I do remember the family members talking about some change that had occurred at a convention and that the churches were going to allow women and homosexuals to be church leaders. They (the relatives) were at least solidly convinced of it, and left that church and became IIRC, United Baptists or some such.
> 
> At any rate, I am glad to hear that the changes did not occur in your church.


My Dad was a Southern Baptist preacher and I have attended missionary and independent Baptist churches my whole life, as well as non-denomination churches. I have never heard of such nonsense. I am positive your source mis spoke or were affiliated with a lone wolf organization. Such prgressiveness would not be something Baptists would sanction.


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> ...I believe in following Christ's example. Preach the Gospel...


Yeah and if people won't listen, we can walk off with a clear conscience rather than waste any more time on them, they had their chance..-
Jesus said:-_"If any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them" (Mark 6:11)_
For example I recently posted a bible quote that I thought might help people with their stress problems, but they replied "You don't know what you're talking about", so I walked out of the thread..


----------



## ActionJackson

stevekozak said:


> The Southern Baptists turned to letting women be ministers and allowing gays to be leaders many years ago.


Another one bites the dust. Scratch them off of my list. That leaves zero churches in my area worth attending. I guess it's just me, online folks of like-mind, my Bible, and the Holy Spirit. I don't feel to badly though. John the Baptist survived in a spiritual "wilderness" and did just fine.


----------



## Maine-Marine

KUSA said:


> She probably took two weeks off to find him.


No, she dispatched air and rescue. and then acted like a mother will act.... thinking of little else but her little boy. Her daughter said she (Margaret) was horribly devestated


----------



## Eyeball

Slippy said:


> Thread topic-*Women should not be in position of leadership*
> Not in church, not in schools, not in tax payer funded elected positions, not in moderator roles..


Speaking of moderators, most are men and many are completely useless, i've been having running battles with them in all kinds of forums for years, I think they must have seen adverts like this and decided to give it a go..-


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> Speaking of moderators, most are men and many are completely useless, i've been having running battles with them in all kinds of forums for years, I think they must have seen adverts like this and decided to give it a go..-


I've known some very good mods (this site has a bunch) and a few very bad ones. I was a member of a forum for many years that had a lot of good mods but a couple of bad apples (one of which was finally kicked out off of the forum). I finally left when they "hired" a "woke SJW" leftist who harassed me with endless warnings; changed my posts; changed my settings; moved my posts; or completely eliminated my posts. Enough was enough and I moved on. I was nearing 70 thousand posts as I recall. I'm glad I found this site. Much more down-to-earth.


----------



## Maine-Marine

SAR-1L said:


> So you are saying women shouldn't have the right to vote?


Yes, I am saying that. If I could snap my fingers and make things happen I would not allow women to vote... sure some look at the bigger picture but as a group most are feelings driven and want to be FAIR and make people happy....



SAR-1L said:


> How many is too many? So women that serve in the military join up for abortion "rights", and don't care about national security, the welfare of the nation?


there are a million and one reason that people join the military... some just want to better themselves. 
but regardless of if they serve in the military I still would like them not to vote
In fact , while i served with many wonderful women Marines and Soldiers, I would like to see women not allowed in the Marines, Army Combat units, or on Naval Ships....

Maybe allow them to vote in local races but not for any federal office of high state office..



SAR-1L said:


> You are saying men don't let emotions influence their decision making?


I said nothing about men not allow emotions to influence decisions... however as a general rule men do not base decision on feelings. Oh sure some do. But most men are pragmatist and look at the bigger picture..

Women should be protected, cherished, and inspired to be great women. They can run businesses, raise children, provide a stable home, be doctors and lawyers... I just think that allowing them to vote.. or heck even be in politics is not a good thing...


----------



## Eyeball

ActionJackson said:


> ..zero churches in my area worth attending..


Me too, i'm sure there must be some good churches but all the ones round my area are cuckoo..
No sweat, we don't need churches anyway-
Jesus said:_"Don't pray loud and vainly,you can pray privately alone" (Matt 6:6)_

Centuries ago most people couldn't read or write so they had to go to church so that the clergy could read the bible to them.
Nowadays we can just read it online, not necessarily all of it if we don't want, but just the gospels which are the nuclear core of Christianity.
For examp a small slimline gospel like this one costs only a few pennies and can be read in a couple of days-










Jesus is in there and he's easy enough for anybody to understand..-
_"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)_


----------



## Eyeball

Maine-Marine said:


> Women...I just think that allowing them to vote.. or heck even be in politics is not a good thing...


Especially the little old dears who must have voted in their thousands for "that nice mister Biden" instead of "that nasty mister Trump" because they fantasize about wanting to mother, pamper and fuss over sleepy Joe..


----------



## ActionJackson

Eyeball said:


> Especially the little old dears who must have voted in their thousands for "that nice mister Biden" instead of "that nasty mister Trump" because they fantasize about wanting to mother, pamper and fuss over sleepy Joe..


Socialism is really a feminine philosophy. It pretends to "think about the little guy" which leads Socialist leaders to feel a need to take from Peter to give to Paul. It's forced "charity" in their minds. It's a feelings-based belief system which is appealing to the feminine, nurturing nature of women. Free market Capitalism suggests hard work, personal responsibility, and individualism which is a more masculine set of ideals. Men are generally more driven to succeed and "win." Women are more interested in "rocking the cradle" and offering others to suckle.

Of course, I'm speaking broadly and generally. There are effeminate "men" (cucks) and masculine women who don't fit the norm. There are also very masculine men who have a companionate side and very feminine women who embrace common sense and conservative ideals. But I think, in general, Socialism and the "woke" generation are far more feminine in their overall outlook.


----------



## Maine-Marine

ActionJackson said:


> Of course, I'm speaking broadly and generally. There are effeminate "men" (cucks) and masculine women who don't fit the norm. There are also very masculine men who have a companionate side and very feminine women who embrace common sense and conservative ideals. But I think, in general, Socialism and the "woke" generation are far more feminine in their overall outlook.


Yep...


----------



## Maine-Marine

Eyeball said:


> Centuries ago most people couldn't read or write so they had to go to church so that the clergy could read the bible to them.


this is not true at all.... the people going to church might not have been able to read latin!!! but they could and did read english.. or greek or hebrew or roman depending on where they lived...

they went to church because the catholic cult leaders refused to allow them to have the word of God in anything but latin


----------



## SAR-1L

stevekozak said:


> I am not sure if you really misunderstood what I as saying/asking, or if you have chosen to. I will give the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> I understand the kind of kids you are talking about. I don't think they are representative of Christians as a whole.
> 
> Robbers, terrorists, rapists, etc do not typically stop at one time. My point was about someone letting these same people perpetrate on them more than once, if they had the power to prevent it.
> 
> I didn't say (didn't think I would need to) that there would not be consequences for defending yourself by whatever means necessary. It is a choice to be made. You made yours. It was different than the choice I would have made. That is fine. I am not posting about being beat on by my peers with belt buckles multiple times.
> 
> "Please enlighten" was not a snarky quip. It was a respectful request for information. If you want, I can from now on just say "Tell me the damn facts, SAR".
> 
> You forewarned that you are touchy about the subject. You were definitely truthful about that.


I get touchy when people start hinting/implying it was my fault for not doing enough about it, especially when the moment I would do something about it I was getting punished for mere self-preservation. I was a kid and maybe per your standards a weak and dumb, even for a child. I was trying to stay safe, while at the same time being told that everything I did to protect myself made me a bad person by teachers and principles, and was accompanied by negative reinforcement. I can tell you it dramatically changed the way I look at the world as an adult, impacted my social life, as well as the problem-solving tools I am willing to deploy. It is no doubt the reason I went into corrections work, did security contracting, and have a 20-year background in various skills and training related to risk mitigation and personal safety.

As fun as this lovely little deep dive into my childhood is, and as much as I enjoy (sarcasm, btw) being put on the defense by a stranger about the regrets of my childhood decisions, I've met plenty of adults that "claim to be Christians" go to church on Sunday and are the most backstabbing treacherous, and manipulative individuals you will ever meet. I've learned in life that just cause someone is referencing the bible vs. and such in their day-to-day conversations, doesn't mean they know right from wrong. So I see similarities to that in this forum when people use the bible as a way to paint how the world should be, especially on women's rights, and leadership. Which my reply is, fine if you believe that, live your life the way you like, I just disagree.

It is just the bias I have right or wrong. Not saying people in this forum are bad, nor am I trying to attack their faith. Though that is pretty hard to disagree with Christians and it is not be perceived by them as an attack on their faith, cause if I remember correctly you are either with me or against me, hot or cold, that is just part of the religious doctrine of your faith.


----------



## ActionJackson

Maine-Marine said:


> this is not true at all.... the people going to church might not have been able to read latin!!! but they could and did read english.. or greek or hebrew or roman depending on where they lived...
> 
> they went to church because the catholic cult leaders refused to allow them to have the word of God in anything but latin


In fact, the death penalty was imposed on anyone caught with personal copies of portions of Scripture during those dark times. Thank God for Gutenberg and the printing of the first Bible available to the common man.


----------



## Tanya49!

Christy Noem- South Dakota


----------



## Maine-Marine

Tanya49! said:


> Christy Noem- South Dakota


Typhoid Mary


----------



## paulag1955

stevekozak said:


> I have not had dealings with the denomination since sometime in the 80's, but that was what was happening then. I had family members that split from that denomination over it. Maybe things changed again. My understanding is that pastors lead a church. Those ordained in the ministry are ministers. All pastors are ministers. All ministers are not pastors. Again things may have changed since I last had knowledge.


As I said, Southern Baptist churches are completely autonomous. The SBC does not ordain any pastors; that is left up to individual churches and some churches have ordained women. However, the SBC rejects ordination of women as unscriptural. The same is true for practicing homosexuals. I attended an SBC church who replaced their worship leader when he came out as a practicing gay.


----------



## Weldman

Don't need a church to believe in, worship or pray to God. All the information you need that you will get in a church is in the Bible (New/Old Testament), just puppets with titles standing up preaching it in the way they decipher it making a paycheck no matter what race, sex, religion, sexual orientation or political leanings they have.


----------



## paulag1955

Weldman said:


> Don't need a church to believe in, worship or pray to God. All the information you need that you will get in a church is in the Bible (New/Old Testament), just puppets with titles standing up preaching it in the way they decipher it making a paycheck no matter what race, sex, religion, sexual orientation or political leanings they have.


Hebrews 10:24, 25

"And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."


----------



## JustAnotherNut

Slippy said:


> Not in church, not in schools, not in tax payer funded elected positions, not in moderator roles, not in PTO/PTA, not in Little League, not in Scouts, etc etc...not in most things.
> 
> But women should most certainly be in leadership roles NEXT to the man of the house, in family situations.
> 
> What say you knuckleheads?


Slippy, Slippy, Slippy......

Whatever were you thinkin to post something like this? Nevermind, I don't want to know. All I can think is Mrs Slippy must have put her foot down and maybe come after you with the frypan???

tsk, tsk, tsk


----------



## SAR-1L

Weldman said:


> Don't need a church to believe in, worship or pray to God. All the information you need that you will get in a church is in the Bible (New/Old Testament), just puppets with titles standing up preaching it in the way they decipher it making a paycheck no matter what race, sex, religion, sexual orientation or political leanings they have.


I know this won't be popular, but I respect this a lot. You have faith, you own it, make it your personal relationship with your creator, I think that is how it oughtta be. Now back to putting my boot back in my mouth. Already stirred up enough trouble. :vs_laugh:


----------



## Eyeball

SAR-1L said:


> I've met plenty of adults that "claim to be Christians" go to church on Sunday and are the most backstabbing treacherous, and manipulative individuals you will ever meet..


Yeah, personally I cross the street to avoid them, but they can't get under Jesus's radar..-
Jesus said:-_*"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)
*_


----------



## Eyeball

Weldman said:


> Don't need a church to believe in, worship or pray to God..


Yay, we have to do it OUR way unless we're lucky enough to find a sensible church and people on our wavelength..
_*"Work out your own salvation.." (Philip 2:12 KJV)
*_

Avon the loner in Blake's Seven got it right-


----------



## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> Hebrews 10:24, 25
> "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
> Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."


Yes, hanging with good sensible people is great and I'm sure there are such people and churches around, but if they're wacko we should steer well clear..-

_"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Bible: Proverbs 13:20)
"If you hang around with losers you become a loser" (Donald Trump)
"Associate yourself with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company"- George Washington_


----------



## danben

Never argue with an idiot in public; passers by may not be able to tell the difference. (many variations, many attributions, a single truth)


----------



## Maine-Marine

Weldman said:


> Don't need a church to believe in, worship or pray to God. All the information you need that you will get in a church is in the Bible (New/Old Testament), just puppets with titles standing up preaching it in the way they decipher it making a paycheck no matter what race, sex, religion, sexual orientation or political leanings they have.


Lone ranger Christianity and Life style evangelism are two big problems

It denies the very things Jesus taught!!!!

Go and Make....

Do not foresake the gathering together....


----------



## Maine-Marine

Eyeball said:


> Yes, hanging with good sensible people is great and I'm sure there are such people and churches around, but if they're wacko we should steer well clear..-
> 
> _"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Bible: Proverbs 13:20)
> "If you hang around with losers you become a loser" (Donald Trump)
> "Associate yourself with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company"- George Washington_


Depends on what you call wacko.. some people think that street preachers are wacko, some think preaching truth is wacko...

Francis Chan tells the story about a man walking up to him after service and the man said " I did not really care for the worship service today!" Francis Chan replied "No Worries, we were not worshiping you!"


----------



## stevekozak

Maine-Marine said:


> Depends on what you call wacko.. some people think that street preachers are wacko, some think preaching truth is wacko...
> 
> Francis Chan tells the story about a man walking up to him after service and the man said " I did not really care for the worship service today!" Francis Chan replied "No Worries, we were not worshiping you!"


John the Baptist was perhaps the most famous street preacher ever. Lot of folks thought he was wacko. Turned out he had a lot of truth to spit. Wound up with his head on a platter for telling those truths, but he was dedicated.

Just because this thread is about women, I will mention that it was at the request of two women that John was beheaded. Herod's thinking with his "little head" led to John's losing his big head. :vs_frown:


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Yes, hanging with good sensible people is great and I'm sure there are such people and churches around, but if they're wacko we should steer well clear..-
> 
> _"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Bible: Proverbs 13:20)
> "If you hang around with losers you become a loser" (Donald Trump)
> "Associate yourself with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company"- George Washington_


Yes, we should steer clear of heresy and false prophets. Look at that...we agree on something.


----------



## Wryter

I don't think being a leader, and a good one, should be determined by gender. Maggie Thatcher was a good leader. Neville Chamberlain was a disaster.


----------



## Denton

Wryter said:


> I don't think being a leader, and a good one, should be determined by gender. Maggie Thatcher was a good leader. Neville Chamberlain was a disaster.


Very good point.


----------



## Sasquatch

It's funny. Hot Nursey is a strong woman but she says a woman should never be President. Too emotional is her rationale.


----------



## Annie

I've heard it put very aptly--and I"m not talking about any of you guys here. But in times of sissified effeminate men, God often raises up Joan of Arcs. I think it's true.


----------



## Eyeball

Wryter said:


> I don't think being a leader, and a good one, should be determined by gender. Maggie Thatcher was a good leader. Neville Chamberlain was a disaster.


Hmm debatable.. Maggie didn't ask for American help in the Falklands War because apparently she wanted to keep it an all-Brit show, so I can't help thinking a lot fewer Brit sailors would have died if she'd asked for help. In fact perhaps the Argies would have withdrawn from the islands without a shot being fired if they'd seen Uncle Sam arriving on the scene.
US Defence Sec Caspar Weinberger said after the war "We would have sent a carrier if we'd been asked".

As for Chamberlain, at least he tried to talk Hitler out of starting a war but Hitler ignored him.


----------



## Eyeball

Annie said:


> I've heard it put very aptly--and I"m not talking about any of you guys here. But in times of sissified effeminate men, God often raises up Joan of Arcs. I think it's true.


I think Sarah Palin (below) would have made a great vice-President if the American people had voted for her and ex-bomber pilot Johnny McCain in 2008, but instead they voted for milksops Obama and Biden.


----------



## esmok

I commend anyone who speaks without filter. But I cannot do so right now.

I have been kicked off so many places in the past 5 months for "wrong think", that I have resorted to joining deep/dark web discussion groups, which is the last bastion of freedom of speech in this world. But its ineffective at spreading truth since only only the choir visits those places.

The matriarchy has reduced us to ineffective echo-chambers, the matriarchy is brutal because women are brutal beings. By and large they lack the logical compassion & reason of men - it's just not in their nature to be logical. It is just for them to be this way, but it is also just to recognize it and deal with it accordingly.

In general, women are communists sympathizers and they have taken over the Western world with the help and funding of Bolsheviks. Women are tools, used to install a matriarchy to effectively to feminize populations and ideas. The Bolsheviks who use them use the technique of gaslighting to shift the blame for the ills of the matriarchy to the non-existent patriarchy. *Western countries have not operated under a patriarchy for 100+ years!*

These Bolsheviks are a self-proclaimed "race" of beings that use gaslighting like no other. No one does it better, they invented it - it's their trademark. They are liars, the best liars ever to exist.

Those of you who are "woke" (no, not "woke" by Bolshevik definition, but by original definition), know who these Bolsheviks are. They are few, in fact they are a literal minority in every foreign region they inhabit, yet they completely control the Western world.

They've been conducting their shenanigans for centuries: subverting countries and undermining the majority in those countries - this is their strategy. They take over a country's media and education systems (among other institutions) then brainwash the minorities and the weakest of the majority in those countries - effectively they create an army against the majority, culture and values of the countries they infiltrate. It's a difficult army to combat IF you do not identify the root AND act accordingly to eliminate it.

There's only one way out of this mess and the first action must be to remove these Bolshevik masters as well as their lackeys. If you do not remove the Bolshevik first, the Bolshevik, because it controls the media and education system, will demonize you and it will only make things worse. But once you remove the Bolshevik, you can then do whatever is necessary to set things back on the path of sanity and justice, without much or any resistance because now YOU are in control.

Talk is of no use anymore. We are well-past that stage and we blew it.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

esmok said:


> I commend anyone who speaks without filter. But I cannot do so right now.
> 
> I have been kicked off so many places in the past 5 months for "wrong think", that I have resorted to joining deep/dark web discussion groups, which is the last bastion of freedom of speech in this world. But its ineffective at spreading truth since only only the choir visits those places.
> 
> The matriarchy has reduced us to ineffective echo-chambers, the matriarchy is brutal because women are brutal beings. By and large they lack the logical compassion & reason of men - it's just not in their nature to be logical. It is just for them to be this way, but it is also just to recognize it and deal with it accordingly.
> 
> In general, women are communists sympathizers and they have taken over the Western world with the help and funding of Bolsheviks. Women are tools, used to install a matriarchy to effectively to feminize populations and ideas. The Bolsheviks who use them use the technique of gaslighting to shift the blame for the ills of the matriarchy to the non-existent patriarchy. *Western countries have not operated under a patriarchy for 100+ years!*
> 
> These Bolsheviks are a self-proclaimed "race" of beings that use gaslighting like no other. No one does it better, they invented it - it's their trademark. They are liars, the best liars ever to exist.
> 
> Those of you who are "woke" (no, not "woke" by Bolshevik definition, but by original definition), know who these Bolsheviks are. They are few, in fact they are a literal minority in every foreign region they inhabit, yet they completely control the Western world.
> 
> They've been conducting their shenanigans for centuries: subverting countries and undermining the majority in those countries - this is their strategy. They take over a country's media and education systems (among other institutions) then brainwash the minorities and the weakest of the majority in those countries - effectively they create an army against the majority, culture and values of the countries they infiltrate. It's a difficult army to combat IF you do not identify the root AND act accordingly to eliminate it.
> 
> There's only one way out of this mess and the first action must be to remove these Bolshevik masters as well as their lackeys. If you do not remove the Bolshevik first, the Bolshevik, because it controls the media and education system, will demonize you and it will only make things worse. But once you remove the Bolshevik, you can then do whatever is necessary to set things back on the path of sanity and justice, without much or any resistance because now YOU are in control.
> 
> Talk is of no use anymore. We are well-past that stage and we blew it.


well, that will take some digesting....

as for myself, I like women, they are soft and smell nice... men not so much... to each his own!


----------



## esmok

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> well, that will take some digesting....
> 
> as for myself, I like women, they are soft and smell nice... men not so much... to each his own!


This thread is not about women from a sexual/sexuality standpoint. Femininity and female sexuality are, indeed, something to behold and put on a pedestal.

Those who refuse to ior are unable to "digest" the topic at hand are what are called "simps" and "white knights".


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

esmok said:


> This thread is not about women from a sexual/sexuality standpoint. Femininity and female sexuality are, indeed, something to behold and put on a pedestal.
> 
> Those who refuse to ior are unable to "digest" the topic at hand are what are called "simps" and "white knights".


you obviously missed my post on hockey moms....


----------



## OrneryOldBat

I'm going to throw a bunch of stuff out there.

There will always be a few men and women who fall outside the traditional roles for whatever reason. There needs to be a productive role for those outliers. Women (and men) who aren't suited for marriage shouldn't be forced into them - that's a recipe for disaster for anyone else involved.

How many women have stepped up to leadership roles because of the failure of men to lead? 

Also - I've never seen anything as ruthless and terrifying as a woman defending her home and children who is on her last option. They will try and talk first, but when push comes to shove, it's massive overkill because women know that they are generally smaller and weaker than men and an orbital strike may be required.


----------



## Robie

There is no doubt in my mind that there are some women who can do "mental" jobs as well, if not better than some men.

With that said, I can't help but remember the stories about and interviews with, Hillary Clinton after she lost the election to President Trump.

Her talking about all the crying she did in the days after that really gives one pause to consider if that particular woman was fit to be the leader of the free world.

Just the crying alone was enough to make me stop and think....thank God.

I do believe emotion plays a part in evaluating women in the workforce.


----------



## paulag1955

Robie said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that there are some women who can do "mental" jobs as well, if not better than some men.
> 
> With that said, I can't help but remember the stories about and interviews with, Hillary Clinton after she lost the election to President Trump.
> 
> Her talking about all the crying she did in the days after that really gives one pause to consider if that particular woman was fit to be the leader of the free world.
> 
> Just the crying alone was enough to make me stop and think....thank God.
> 
> I do believe emotion plays a part in evaluating women in the workforce.


FYI, crying doesn't interfere with mental operations anymore than blinking does. If you're trying to imply that a man wouldn't be upset after losing, especially after he expected to win, wouldn't be upset, I'm not buying it. Any normal person would be upset. Some people express that by crying. It doesn't necessarily mean that person is "more emotional" than someone who expresses it in other ways.


----------



## Robie

I think you need to do more research.


----------



## jeep123

If we're going to go Biblical, the prime example is Deborah, the woman Judge. Why was she chosen?
Because the men wouldn't step up.
I think its pretty obvious that (since Eden) men are tempted to "shirk" responsibility, while women face the opposite curse, which is the compulsion to dominate (and/or reject leadership by a man). 
But saying "dont do that" is simplistic; In my mind, the greater challenge is BECOMING a better man than i am, one who is more capable of leading.

But not all of you are bible readers. I skimmed this topic, so maybe i missed it. Has someone made a compelling argument to promote women to important leadership?



OrneryOldBat said:


> I'm going to throw a bunch of stuff out there.
> 
> There will always be a few men and women who fall outside the traditional roles for whatever reason. There needs to be a productive role for those outliers. Women (and men) who aren't suited for marriage shouldn't be forced into them - that's a recipe for disaster for anyone else involved.
> 
> How many women have stepped up to leadership roles because of the failure of men to lead?
> 
> .


----------



## paulag1955

jeep123 said:


> If we're going to go Biblical, the prime example is Deborah, the woman Judge. Why was she chosen?
> Because the men wouldn't step up.
> I think its pretty obvious that (since Eden) men are tempted to "shirk" responsibility, while women face the opposite curse, which is the compulsion to dominate (and/or reject leadership by a man).
> But saying "dont do that" is simplistic; In my mind, the greater challenge is BECOMING a better man than i am, one who is more capable of leading.
> 
> But not all of you are bible readers. I skimmed this topic, so maybe i missed it. Has someone made a compelling argument to promote women to important leadership?


People have made scriptural arguments about women not being in leadership positions in the Church and (I think) the home. I don't think the Bible speaks to business and politics.


----------



## stevekozak

Robie said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that there are some women who can do "mental" jobs as well, if not better than some men.
> 
> With that said, I can't help but remember the stories about and interviews with, Hillary Clinton after she lost the election to President Trump.
> 
> Her talking about all the crying she did in the days after that really gives one pause to consider if that particular woman was fit to be the leader of the free world.
> 
> Just the crying alone was enough to make me stop and think....thank God.
> 
> I do believe emotion plays a part in evaluating women in the workforce.


While I 100% agree that the Hillbeast was not fit for office, I will have to say that I have seen 250 pound grown-ass men crying like babies because they lost a freaking football or basketball game. It really disgusts me. It is a freaking GAME fellows, nobody died!!!


----------



## Robie

stevekozak said:


> While I 100% agree that the Hillbeast was not fit for office, I will have to say that I have seen 250 pound grown-ass men crying like babies because they lost a freaking football or basketball game. It really disgusts me. It is a freaking GAME fellows, nobody died!!!


*Generally speaking* though.....


----------



## Eyeball

Women can be tough cookies when they have to be, like these Russian women snipers in WW2.
(Between you and me i've been toying with the idea of importing a Russian bride, we can honeymoon in her homeland and visit famous romantic places like the Stalingrad Tractor factory, the Red Oktober Steelworks, and stroll arm in arm through the Kursk anti-tank ditches by moonlight)


----------



## MisterMills357

Deborah the prophettess and a woman named Jael destroyed a Canaanite army. That is in Judges 4, and it is a long story. 

Briefly Deborah took oversight of the Israli army. And destroyed the Canaanite army.

Jael suckered Sisera to his death.

She drew him into her tent, and after he fell asleep, she drove a stake into his head.

Not bad, I know that I couldn't do it any better.


----------



## Eyeball

https://allthatsinteresting.com/night-witches-ww2


----------



## MisterMills357

Annie said:


> A few thoughts if I may...
> 
> There's always going to be the exceptions, but _in general_ a woman's place is in the home. I've been incredibly blest to be able to stay home, be in charge of the children, care for our aging moms and provide a home life for my family.
> 
> Obviously, if a woman has to work in order to pay to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table, then that's what she's got to do. But you know when the cost of housing and inflation started sky rocketing? It was the late 70's, after women began entering the work force en masse. That's sadly ironic.
> 
> It's Lenin we have to thank for women's so-called "liberation" Lenin on the 'Liberation' of Women But it's the effeminate men who let it happen.
> 
> We all have the same dignity, but men and women are designed differently. And there's got to be one whose in charge. That's the husband. He's a fool if he doesn't consider his wife's advise, but ultimately every ship needs a captain, that's the husband.


God Bless your heart Annie, you are one of the wisest women that I know of.


----------



## MisterMills357

Ridin with biden said:


> I definitely agree with church because the good book says for a woman to be silent in church... any of these others I am indifferent and think the position is best filled by the most mentally and morally fit person, male or female...
> 
> Side note = I was filling out paperwork for a couple guns today and I was given 3 options for gender- male female or non-binary, whatever that is


Did you find some meds that worked? Or was that intro thread just a chain puller?


----------



## MisterMills357

SAR-1L said:


> Slippy said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off @SAR-1L you know me better than that! I'm NOT looking for the answer that I want, I'm looking for an honest answer from those who choose to answer. Most people know my stance on these issues. I simply was expanding the thread to include another aspect of the discussion.
> 
> I thought I knew most people's answers and very few surprised me. Regardless, I thought it was a good exercise and didn't attempt to change anybody's minds.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I like to ask questions in a way to provoke a response at times, cause I like to drive people into clear definitive answers on where they stand. Hopefully, you know I respect you. I kinda feel parenthood while is a form of leadership it is a topic deserving of its own thread and needs to be clearly distinguished from leadership. I have met plenty of parents & leaders that could do one or the other very well respectively, while tanking pretty hard on the opposite, very few do both well at the same time, as it is such a tall order.
> 
> I do feel I am seeing more preaching in the forums than I remember from a few years ago. I don't mind people speaking their personal truth, but it is a bit much for me when religious doctrine is preached as the difference between good and evil people. I know there is some scripture or something, that reinforces some of that topic and I don't want to open that can of worms.
> 
> Just so everyone understands my hard pushbacks on preachy sermons, comes from a childhood of getting my shit kicked in, whipped with belt buckles, bullwhips, etc by little bastards that would go to church on Sundays and the judgment and bs from folks that were "religious". I know not all Christians are like that, some of my friends are what I consider to be the more authentic reality of it. Yet I still can't help but see pompous righteous punks spouting and judging on others from podiums and pews, and it infuriates me. Especially when religion is used to put people down/oppress people.
> 
> I will say I believe the role of a woman has changed a lot since the '60s, as our world has changed. I believe bad parenting results in poor outcomes for the child. Some of the worst parenting can come from a parent that didn't choose to be one. I also believe good parenting can come from other sources outside the biological parent (even if it shouldn't have to) otherwise we are negating the value of step-parents, parents who adopt, etc.
Click to expand...

SAR-1L,
I had to quit school, before I could finish the 8th grade. I was attacked in school, a lot and had to fight back.

And I was labeled a trouble maker, and suspended, etc.

And my home life was a raging hell, with a drunkard for a step father, and a termegent for a mother.

And the only solace that I have found is Christ. What is my alternative? And I have been a Christian for a very long time now.

Just for talking purpose:
1. In my last college class, I made the honor roll. 
2. I am a fighting madman, and I don't care if there are twelve armed Antifa at my door.
They will be trimmed down.
3. I have dents in my skull from attacks.
4. I give $10 to any homeless that asks for money. I do not blame them, I give the enough to go to Subway.

I hope that this is a sensible reply, because I have really slipped, in the last two years.


----------



## Eyeball

MisterMills357 said:


> ..I had to quit school, before I could finish the 8th grade. I was attacked in school, a lot and had to fight back.
> And I was labeled a trouble maker, and suspended, etc..


I was expelled aged about 12, not because I was a troublemaker but simply for "not trying" in lessons..
I was a quiet, wimpy kid but amazingly never got bullied because I was so good on the sports field; I think the respectful attitude of my schoolmates towards me must have been a subconscious throwback to our cavemen ancestry, when anybody who could run, jump and slay dinosauars etc was a valuable asset to the tribe.


----------



## Eyeball

Ridin with biden said:


> I definitely agree with church because the good book says for a woman to be silent in church..


Whoa, Paul was only telling the noisy yappy women in some early christian churches to shut their traps, he had no beef against the sensible women in any of the other churches..


----------



## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Whoa, Paul was only telling the noisy yappy women in some early christian churches to shut their traps, he had no beef against the sensible women in any of the other churches..


You keep saying this without providing any *additional* scriptures to support your point.


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## Eyeball

_Eyeball said- Whoa, Paul was only telling the noisy yappy women in some early christian churches to shut their traps, he had no beef against the sensible women in any of the other churches_
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paulag1955 said:


> You keep saying this without providing any *additional* scriptures to support your point.


Are you catholic? If you're happy to be bossed about by that Pope bloke it's none of my bizness.










But a lot of other women don't agree with him like these Church of England women clergy..


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## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> _Eyeball said- Whoa, Paul was only telling the noisy yappy women in some early christian churches to shut their traps, he had no beef against the sensible women in any of the other churches_
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Are you catholic? If you're happy to be bossed about by that Pope bloke it's none of my bizness.
> 
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> But a lot of other women don't agree with him like these Church of England women clergy..


No, not Catholic. I see that you actually can't provide any additional scriptures to back up your claim, you have to go directly to insulting Catholics. Not a good look.


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## MisterMills357

paulag1955 said:


> Eyeball said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Eyeball said- Whoa, Paul was only telling the noisy yappy women in some early christian churches to shut their traps, he had no beef against the sensible women in any of the other churches_
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Are you catholic? If you're happy to be bossed about by that Pope bloke it's none of my bizness.
> 
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> 
> But a lot of other women don't agree with him like these Church of England women clergy..
> 
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> 
> No, not Catholic. I see that you actually can't provide any additional scriptures to back up your claim, you have to go directly to insulting Catholics. Not a good look.
Click to expand...

Paul made a permanent rule about women, which was that husbands were their spiritual leaders.

I have seen women who appear to think that their pastors are their spiritual husbands or something.

They will interrupt things with questions to the pastor. They are idiots that won't make it over the long run.

And from what I have heard about the Church of England, it is dead. They are considering an apology to the queer community.

For what, following scripture?


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## MisterMills357

Eyeball said:


> MisterMills357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..I had to quit school, before I could finish the 8th grade. I was attacked in school, a lot and had to fight back.
> And I was labeled a trouble maker, and suspended, etc..
> 
> 
> 
> I was expelled aged about 12, not because I was a troublemaker but simply for "not trying" in lessons..
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> I was a quiet, wimpy kid but amazingly never got bullied because I was so good on the sports field; I think the respectful attitude of my schoolmates towards me must have been a subconscious throwback to our cavemen ancestry, when anybody who could run, jump and slay dinosauars etc was a valuable asset to the tribe.
Click to expand...

I could run like the wind when I was a kid, and I loved American football.

I could outrun most others when I got the ball, and bullies don't like to shown up.

So, I figure that was part of the reason they hated me. This is funny, I was very good at spelling bees to. So, I was smarter than the bullies to.


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## rice paddy daddy

MisterMills357 said:


> I could run like the wind when I was a kid, and I loved American football.
> 
> I could outrun most others when I got the ball, and bullies don't like to shown up.
> 
> So, I figure that was part of the reason they hated me. This is funny, I was very good at spelling bees to. So, I was smarter than the bullies to.


Spelling Police spotted a huge error.
But, I will not blurt it out, I am assuming it was intentional.:vs_cool:


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## MisterMills357

rice paddy daddy said:


> MisterMills357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could run like the wind when I was a kid, and I loved American football.
> 
> I could outrun most others when I got the ball, and bullies don't like to shown up.
> 
> So, I figure that was part of the reason they hated me. This is funny, I was very good at spelling bees to. So, I was smarter than the bullies to.
> 
> 
> 
> Spelling Police spotted a huge error.
> But, I will not blurt it out, I am assuming it was intentional.
Click to expand...

Was it to, instead of too?
I make spelling and grammar mistakes all of the time now. The last 5 years have been very hard on me.

I am sitting here with a headache, because my blood pressure meds, don't work for me.

And one of those meds has made my feet numb, so two different doctors, have told me that I have neuropathy.

My primary doctor tried to give me neurontin, and I simply refused the crap.


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## Robie

rice paddy daddy said:


> Spelling Police spotted a huge error.
> But, I will not blurt it out, I am assuming it was intentional.:vs_cool:


I too won't point it out.:devil:


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## MisterMills357

Robie said:


> rice paddy daddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spelling Police spotted a huge error.
> But, I will not blurt it out, I am assuming it was intentional.
> 
> 
> 
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> I too won't point it out.
Click to expand...

Ha, ha.
You spotted it.


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## rice paddy daddy

MisterMills357 said:


> Ha, ha.
> You spotted it.


I'm just an old dumb truck driver that barely graduated high school.
I am completely self taught in grammar and spelling by reading non-fiction military history books for the last 60 years.
My house looks like a public library with all the books.


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## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> No, not Catholic. I see that you actually can't provide any additional scriptures to back up your claim, you have to go directly to insulting Catholics. Not a good look.


That Pope bloke says women can't be priests, THAT's an insult to all women..
As i've pointed out before, Paul praised women church workers, it was only the yappy noisy ones who he told to clam up..


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## Eyeball

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm just an old dumb truck driver that barely graduated high school.
> I am completely self taught in grammar and spelling by reading non-fiction military history books for the last 60 years.
> My house looks like a public library with all the books.


Churchill wasn't so hot at school work, but after he left and studied military matters at Sandhurst he passed out with honours, and said in his autobiog- "So I was good at the things that really counted"..


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## A Watchman

Eyeball said:


> Whoa, Paul was only telling the noisy yappy women in some early christian churches to shut their traps, he had no beef against the sensible women in any of the other churches..


Slippy wanted me to ask ... doesn't noisy yappy account for most women?


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## Eyeball

A Watchman said:


> Slippy wanted me to ask ... doesn't noisy yappy account for most women?


Yup, but luckily there are still sensible women around, but hard to find..-

_*"A wife of noble character who can find? 
She is worth far more than rubies. 
Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value. 
She brings him good, not harm all the days of her life. 
She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy. 
She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come. 
Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting; but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised"
(from Bible: Proverbs 31) *_


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## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> That Pope bloke says women can't be priests, THAT's an insult to all women..
> As i've pointed out before, Paul praised women church workers, it was only the yappy noisy ones who he told to clam up..


Workers, not leaders.


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## Denton

MisterMills357 said:


> Ha, ha.
> You spotted it.


Two, actually. Maybe three, depending on how nerdy one wants to take it. :vs_laugh:


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## MisterMills357

rice paddy daddy said:


> MisterMills357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, ha.
> You spotted it.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just an old dumb truck driver that barely graduated high school.
> I am completely self taught in grammar and spelling by reading non-fiction military history books for the last 60 years.
> My house looks like a public library with all the books.
Click to expand...

Reading things like, A Christmas Carol, in a single night, started to set me apart from others.

I fell in love with classic book's.


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## MisterMills357

Denton said:


> MisterMills357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha, ha.
> You spotted it.
> 
> 
> 
> Two, actually. Maybe three, depending on how nerdy one wants to take it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am falling apart.


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## Denton

MisterMills357 said:


> Yeah, I am falling apart.


You aren't by yourself. I don't take vacations, anymore. Almost all my paid time of is used for paincations.


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## Annie

MisterMills357 said:


> God Bless your heart Annie, you are one of the wisest women that I know of.


Thanks, MisterMills. God bless you, too!


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## Eyeball

Hey I've been thinking perhaps I was too hard on the Pope for banning women from being priests?
Maybe he thinks women are simply not tough enough?
For example over the years I've known many women forum moderators and some are sweet and nice, but as a result they don't have the toughness to stand up to trolls who sense their weakness and walk all over them and mess up the forums.
(but in fairness to women, some male moderators are a bit weak too)..

So could women generally be tough enough to lead churches and congregation? I honestly just don't know.


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## A Watchman

Eyeball said:


> Hey I've been thinking perhaps I was too hard on the Pope for banning women from being priests?
> Maybe he thinks women are simply not tough enough?
> For example over the years I've known many women forum moderators and some are sweet and nice, but as a result they don't have the toughness to stand up to trolls who sense their weakness and walk all over them and mess up the forums.
> (but in fairness to women, some male moderators are a bit weak too)..
> 
> So could women generally be tough enough to lead churches and congregation? I honestly just don't know.


Not to re-address my previous comments on women and their God-given talents relative to primary responsibilities. But I will comment on my very strong feelings when it comes to the Pope in any topic or stance. In fact, I can quite adequately relay them very precisely in (3) words...

Screw the Pope.


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## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Hey I've been thinking perhaps I was too hard on the Pope for banning women from being priests?
> Maybe he thinks women are simply not tough enough?


Or maybe he's just going by what it says in the Bible.


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## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> Or maybe he's just going by what it says in the Bible.


Sensible women played a big part in early the early christian churches and Paul had no quarrel with them..
Some of the disciples ran off in fear of the Romans and abandoned Jesus, but women stuck with him and were-


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## MisterMills357

Denton said:


> MisterMills357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I am falling apart.
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't by yourself. I don't take vacations, anymore. Almost all my paid time of is used for paincations.
Click to expand...

If I took a vacation, I would end up on a highway alert:

Elder Alert
License Plate # 123 4567..Florida. BOTL

With the message:

Stupid is loose again. Somebody needs to take his keys.


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## stevekozak

I see our local alleged Limey troll is still hard at it.


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## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Sensible women played a big part in early the early christian churches and Paul had no quarrel with them..
> Some of the disciples ran off in fear of the Romans and abandoned Jesus, but women stuck with him and were-


Give me a Scripture where a woman is leading a church.


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## Eyeball

paulag1955 said:


> Give me a Scripture where a woman is leading a church.


Take your pick..

_*In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. On my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will speak." (Joel 2:28-32)

In fact there have always been special women in the Bible -
Miriam who saved her baby brother Moses from death when she was just a child; 
Deborah, prophetess, judge and military leader; 
Huldah who taught at the college in Jerusalem.;
Rahab the prostitute who sheltered the two fugitive Israelis,
The evangelist Philip had four daughters who were prophetesses; 
The early Christian sect in Phrygia was led by Montanus and two prophetesses, Priscilla and Maximilla..
And Paul paid glowing tributes to women -"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me.. 
Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you.. 
Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too. 
Greet Julia.." (Romans ch 16)

And Paul reminds us -
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )*_


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## Robie

Where's my dinner woman!!!!!


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## Annie

Eyeball said:


> Sensible women played a big part in early the early christian churches and Paul had no quarrel with them..
> Some of the disciples ran off in fear of the Romans and abandoned Jesus, but women stuck with him and were-


Eyeball, I can't speak for any other church but my own, and even then I'm only a lay person. So with that said, all I can tell you is that men and women have different rolls. Put simply, a wife submits to her husband providing what he asks of her doesn't go against God's Commands. The priesthood is a male vocation, just as fatherhood is a male vocation. Woman aren't of less value than men; they are both equal in dignity. But sanctity is what I believe St. Paul talks about (Galatians 3:28 )... a particular woman can have greater sanctity than a certain man. For example, a washer woman in the restroom in NYC can have greater sanctity than a cardinal or bishop--and often does these days!

The Blessed Mother is the example of that par excellence. St John stayed with her at the foot of the cross and therefore he didn't flee, because he was with Our Lady.


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## paulag1955

Eyeball said:


> Take your pick..
> 
> _*In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. On my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will speak." (Joel 2:28-32)
> 
> In fact there have always been special women in the Bible -
> Miriam who saved her baby brother Moses from death when she was just a child;
> Deborah, prophetess, judge and military leader;
> Huldah who taught at the college in Jerusalem.;
> Rahab the prostitute who sheltered the two fugitive Israelis,
> The evangelist Philip had four daughters who were prophetesses;
> The early Christian sect in Phrygia was led by Montanus and two prophetesses, Priscilla and Maximilla..
> And Paul paid glowing tributes to women -"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea..she has been a great help to many people, including me..
> Greet Priscilla , my fellow worker in Christ Jesus, she risked her life for me.
> Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you..
> Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa and Persis, those women who work hard in the Lord.
> Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
> Greet Julia.." (Romans ch 16)
> 
> And Paul reminds us -
> "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )*_


Being a "special woman in the Bible" isn't a leadership position. Neither is prophesy. Leadership positions in the Church are pastors, elders, deacons, bishops, or whatever.

Are you implying that Galatians 3:28 negates every other reference to the relationship between men and women in the New Testament? Scripture never contradicts itself. If you have several verses that can clearly be understood as having a particular meaning, it then follows that your understanding of the odd verse that seems to contradict them is wrong. You are deliberately misunderstanding the verse from Galatians as well 1 Corinthians 14:34 to suit your own sensibilities.


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## paulag1955

paulag1955 said:


> Being a "special woman in the Bible" isn't a leadership position. Neither is prophesy. Leadership positions in the Church are pastors, elders, deacons, bishops, or whatever.
> 
> Are you implying that Galatians 3:28 negates every other reference to the relationship between men and women in the New Testament? Scripture never contradicts itself. If you have several verses that can clearly be understood as having a particular meaning, it then follows that your understanding of the odd verse that seems to contradict them is wrong. You are deliberately misunderstanding the verse from Galatians as well 1 Corinthians 14:34 to suit your own sensibilities.


Galatians 3:38 relates to salvation, not the church leadership hierarchy. All can be saved, which was an important point to make, since the Jews believed that the Messiah was coming only for them.


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## Any Beastie

Woman can have leadership in the work place. Few are better than the best men in the business, but some are better than the median men in the business. Its simply factual in my mind that ladies can be indecisive and have less commanding and authoritative presences than strong men meaning subordinates are less likely to be motivated. Honestly though, I do sincerely believe that woman would not be as happy to live a career heavy life than to live a more relational life style. I obviously am a house wife but I would love to hear thoughts from any ladies who are sincerely glad to have been in a very demanding worplace in which they were not able to raise their own families.


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## Megamom134

I was the house manager for a busy trauma center and responsible for overseeing every floor. I had to trouble shoot, start the ball rolling for disasters and calm down unruly visitors and patient. Our CEO was a woman and a nun for decades, replaced her with a man and the hospital went to hell.
Just saying. I am now the treasurer/secretary for my camera club. Do I want to be president, I am too honest for that.


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