# Ukraine update (with a capital F)



## pheniox17

reports are 6000 Russian troops (not confirmed...) 

they have a military base and a communication centre, they are also surrounding the capital (no big deal.....)

Poland has just deployed tanks at the border... (this is the F moment, if it escalates much further... expect a confrontation...) 

source: a military Facebook page

note: i understand there is now 3 topics on this subject, it maybe a good idea to post updates on the military situation not political, as this may (I stress may) be the early stages to a world war, as it's gained international attention


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## Seneca

How exciting!
Lets hope nobody does anything rash...


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## inceptor

pheniox17 said:


> note: i understand there is now 3 topics on this subject, it maybe a good idea to post updates on the military situation not political, as this may (I stress may) be the early stages to a world war, as it's gained international attention


Not gonna happen.

ETA: With Reagan or Bush it may have been a possibility but not now.


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## pheniox17

inceptor said:


> Not gonna happen.


i hope your right... it has the potential to escalate really really fast... from a truly military sense (forget the politics that are been thrown around at the moment) if Poland decide to play, then who else (and I bet Russia will be quick to invade Poland)


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## SAR-1L

I honestly expect nothing to come of this... but wow poland and tanks on the border, I would not have expected that. All it takes is one bullet one, one bomb. Like tinder in a forest, and now we add the spark... does anything light up?


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## inceptor

pheniox17 said:


> i hope your right... it has the potential to escalate really really fast... from a truly military sense (forget the politics that are been thrown around at the moment) if Poland decide to play, then who else (and I bet Russia will be quick to invade Poland)


Obama and his crowd are anti-war at all costs. This is why things have happened the way they have. Our military is dwindling and funds being cut. This is not a going to war scenario. He may be preparing for war but that war he will have with us, this is the war he has been gearing up for. All signs point in that direction. If the US goes to war with another country, it will happen only if we are attacked and he can't negotiate his way out of it.


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## pheniox17

yes the same pattern happened pre ww1 and ww2 in both wars the USA was late in getting involved, I expect the same pattern here if it gets more out of hand... @inceptor 

SAR I am hoping nothing more comes out of this and I wouldn't have been concerned, then Poland activity has come up, and Russia is almost hated as much as Germany by Poland... so it's a wait and see... it only takes one "stray" shell before it all completely goes to hell


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## pharmer14

inceptor said:


> Not gonna happen.
> 
> ETA: With Reagan or Bush it may have been a possibility but not now.


I'm not convinced of anything with the guy in office right now...

I mean right before his re-election, 5 major scandals broke in the same week. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'd definitely say that 5 scandals at once has Cloward and Piven written all over it.

I wouldn't put anything past him... It might get people's minds off the horrid domestic policy gaffs he's had recently...

And as for the Reagan/Bush comment, I was unaware that Ukraine had oil??? (joke)


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## pharmer14

inceptor said:


> Obama and his crowd are anti-war at all costs. This is why things have happened the way they have. Our military is dwindling and funds being cut. This is not a going to war scenario. He may be preparing for war but that war he will have with us, this is the war he has been gearing up for. All signs point in that direction. If the US goes to war with another country, it will happen only if we are attacked and he can't negotiate his way out of it.


Obama's done with elections. At this point, his chief concern is legacy. Maybe it's just me, but if Obama was willing to act militarily with Syria, he might be willing to do so in Ukraine too...

To be honest, I don't know what the best thing for the country is. I tend to think the libertarian view, but there's supposedly a Clinton-era treaty or some other promise we signed to help Ukraine in a situation like the one we face now.


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## SAR-1L

In the event that something were to spark out of this I can clearly see the way it would divvy up.

Russia, China, Iran, Syria, N. Korea, Germany, Iraq, Iran, Afgan, and every mother ****ing terrorist group that ever suicide bombed a market place.
Plus at least another 40+ no name countries.

USA & Britain, Israel... I feel like France, Japan, Canada, Australia, Poland, etc... all respect are mostly non-factors. Sure they may join in but they just don't have the war strength of China, Russia, Germany, USA, Britain...

I feel like China & Russia would keep the US on it's heels, while NK would be ****ing up Japan.
Germany would be rolling over Western Europe all over again,
probably with help of a dozen plus middle east countries (Iran, Iraq, Afgan possibly even Egypt) with support from terrorist cells would rick roll Israel, then join up to hit Southern Europe.

Too me it is clear these countries with anti-american sentiment are helping each other, and hate us. You can see it in the politics, you can see it coming together geographically,
and power balance wise it would be enough I feel to tip the scales to our disadvantage.

If something happens out of this, which I don't think it would, but if it did... we could possibly be on the losing end of this world war.


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## Silverback

I was just discussing this with my lady Sar and I described this exact scenario. We should not forget, our commander in chief is quite possibly the worst ever choice for a war time president. I am sad to say we in our current state lack the fervor that won us the previous world wars.


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## Silverback

I should also say... I do not trust this America with my sons... why should I?


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## SAR-1L

I agree silverback... this scenario http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/news-links/7641-ukraine-update-capital-f.html#post119736 I posted on the previous page...

Think about it to, why did we do so well, harder people for harder times. People would still be fighting with prolapsed intestines, now people collect workers comp over a spranged ankle.
We don't have the same infrastructure, people don't live self sufficient, back then if the system failed, people could survive in smaller communities or pockets. Now with this nationalized attitude
of too big to fail, most of us will just ****ing starve to death and fight amongst ourselves when things get too hard.

Internally when the American welfare feeding tubes go offline we will become our own enemy, killing each other in the streets for a can of kibbles.


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## pheniox17

SAR-1L said:


> USA & Britain, Israel... I feel like France, Japan, Canada, Australia, Poland, etc... all respect are mostly non-factors. Sure they may join in but they just don't have the war strength of China, Russia, Germany, USA, Britain...


don't underestimate Australia and israel,

if ww3 dose brake out, control of these 2 countries will determine the outcome

Israel has tactical importance in the middle east

Australia has the available resources, and ability to provide the appropriate war materials to support this war, and also is well equipped for the "small engagements" want a city taken Anzac forces are perfect for the job (think a scalpel force) where countries like the US are a sledgehammer, the UK is almost balanced between the 2, China is a tidal wave, Russia I don't know it's current levels...

if it all blows up, Europe will be all screwed up, Asia will be another front, Africa is interesting, it has plenty of resources.. and man power to be of use,

Australia/new Zealand are hidden gems, Canada also may be another little gem


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## pheniox17

oh the purpose of this thread is more to discuss the military side of things, not the political, the other 2 threads are more political than military action


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## Notsoyoung

SAR-1L said:


> In the event that something were to spark out of this I can clearly see the way it would divvy up.
> 
> Russia, China, Iran, Syria, N. Korea, Germany, Iraq, Iran, Afgan, and every mother ****ing terrorist group that ever suicide bombed a market place.
> Plus at least another 40+ no name countries.
> 
> USA & Britain, Israel... I feel like France, Japan, Canada, Australia, Poland, etc... all respect are mostly non-factors. Sure they may join in but they just don't have the war strength of China, Russia, Germany, USA, Britain...
> 
> I feel like China & Russia would keep the US on it's heels, while NK would be ****ing up Japan.
> Germany would be rolling over Western Europe all over again,
> probably with help of a dozen plus middle east countries (Iran, Iraq, Afgan possibly even Egypt) with support from terrorist cells would rick roll Israel, then join up to hit Southern Europe.
> 
> Too me it is clear these countries with anti-american sentiment are helping each other, and hate us. You can see it in the politics, you can see it coming together geographically,
> and power balance wise it would be enough I feel to tip the scales to our disadvantage.
> 
> If something happens out of this, which I don't think it would, but if it did... we could possibly be on the losing end of this world war.


Germany would join Russia? You're kidding right? Russia and Germany HATE each other. A majority of our troops in Europe are in Germany. If Germany goes on the side of Russia there won't be a fight, it will already be over.


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## Notsoyoung

pheniox17 said:


> don't underestimate Australia and israel,
> 
> if ww3 dose brake out, control of these 2 countries will determine the outcome
> 
> Israel has tactical importance in the middle east
> 
> Australia has the available resources, and ability to provide the appropriate war materials to support this war, and also is well equipped for the "small engagements" want a city taken Anzac forces are perfect for the job (think a scalpel force) where countries like the US are a sledgehammer, the UK is almost balanced between the 2, China is a tidal wave, Russia I don't know it's current levels...
> 
> if it all blows up, Europe will be all screwed up, Asia will be another front, Africa is interesting, it has plenty of resources.. and man power to be of use,
> 
> Australia/new Zealand are hidden gems, Canada also may be another little gem


And let's not forget the little factor that Israel is suspected of having approximately 300 nukes.


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## Notsoyoung

I would suggest that everyone do a quick review of the events several years before and leading up to both WW1 and WW2, Neville Chamberlain, and Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia to protect the portion of the population that were of German heritage. 

I remember seeing an article last month of the first return of the M1 Abrams tank to Germany. Evidently they had all been removed from the country years ago, which kind of shocked me because when I left there in early 94, there were a whole butt load of them there. If things actually escalated into armed conflict in Europe, I am not sure just how much help we would be in providing ground troops. We might just have a tough time transporting them and their equipment to Europe.


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## SAR-1L

Phoenix I put Israel in the top 3 important on our side... not in the nonfactor section. Australia is key territory, but I don't feel they have military strength like the others.
But if you look at Germany right now is saying if you fight with putin militarily you will split europe... where do you think that split begins?


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## pheniox17

sar, you will be unpleasantly surprised regarding Australias military strength, it is reliant on quality (funny thing that, that's why I described it the way I did, not saying Australia is a better force than the USA, as that's comparing apple's to oranges) 

outside resources, Australia has minimal strategic value... another thing to keep in mind (talking ww3, it controls no major shipping routes, no major air space, it's not even worth using as a major staging area for forces, as the only country in reasonable striking distance is Indonesia...) 

Germany I struggle to follow, they have a effective military, but I doubt they will side with Russia, and the split between the 2 was more spoils of war than anything else...

it's just watch and wait, as more military based info comes up I would love to see it... 

but right now, military wise, Syria is still going, Afghanistan is slowly proven to be a failure, Iraq is quiet?? Ukraine has Russian forces on its boarders, Iran is also super quiet, and same with North Korea... 

something maybe going on... or nothing... but if it escalates, history would have repeated itself for a third time in less than 100 years... (put the tin foil hat on, population control and nwo conspiracies may prove to be right...)


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## SAR-1L

Surrender or Face 'Storm,' Russia Reportedly Tells Ukraine - NBC News
Ultimatum given by Russia by 5am tomorrow for Ukraine to surrender or Russia will start firing.


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## Will2

SAR-1L said:


> Surrender or Face 'Storm,' Russia Reportedly Tells Ukraine - NBC News
> Ultimatum given by Russia by 5am tomorrow for Ukraine to surrender or Russia will start firing.


This is not confirmed. Russian foreign affairs denies the ultimatum

It should read, people speaking Russian said...

not Russia said, NBC needs to get their facts straight. western press has been horrible in their reporting.

This is much the same as saying Russia invaded instead of people with Russian equipment ....

Its not like Georgia didn't have NATO vehicles and equipment, its not like Syrian rebels weren't given other countries weapons.

IT doesn't make them suddenly american or British troops. they just have their equipment. Anyone can claim to be the black sea fleet. It doesn't make them the black sea fleet.

Its not like the US and EU hasn't bankrolled and supplied equipment to the arab spring oppositions with equipment and logistics..

Suddenly with the potential Russia is doing it, it becomes "childish"

I'll tell you who is being the imbecile.

You spend billions to overthrow a government and now with Russia supporting the agreement in Kiev as the status quo you are saying no no we can't possibly agree to the Kiev agreement for a power sharing government to be put in.

The west is supporting a coupe not what the law agreed to. They agreed to a power sharing agreement. if this is about law and honour at all, the opposition that seized government should within that agreement not take all power for itself and drop status to the Russian language throughout Ukraine.

Foreign ministers of Europe backed that deal, they should also support that deal.

Regardless of all the rhetoric. Russia is so far the goodguy here. They are preventing civil war, and supporting rule of law, and contract.

What happens when the military stop getting paid?

who is going to guard dangerous plants like nuclear plants etc...?

Russia has a responsibility to protect not only itself but all the people of Ukraine, Europe and the world.

Ukraine is in a state of chaos, Russia is a stabilizing force.






That is a bit over 1/5th of the Ukrainian airforce.


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## Smitty901

inceptor said:


> Not gonna happen.
> 
> ETA: With Reagan or Bush it may have been a possibility but not now.


 They would have even tried with Reagan or Bush . to them Obama is a joke.


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## Silverback

I am going to take some flak for this and that is ok....

Watching these videos, does anyone get the sense Russia may just be keeping the peace and stopping further bloodshed? Watching the demeanor of the "guards" and the fact there has not been any fire fights yet. Just maybe, the "Russians" are not being the horrible people they are being made out to be. You look at this graph










Looking at the population and regions of Ukraine represented... What they are saying "Protecting the russian speaking people" and so on... kinda makes sense for where they have mobilized. I am sure someone will correct me as there is a lot flying around at the moment and I have trying to makes sense of it all but reading what the russians say, then what we say on nbc then what google translates ukrainian news sources to say. There seems to be a lot of propaganda for each side.

Edit:sorry for the boobs... it was part of the picture.. I did want to show the populace breakdown and this was the best image I could find.


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## oldmurph58

pheniox17 said:


> yes the same pattern happened pre ww1 and ww2 in both wars the USA was late in getting involved, I expect the same pattern here if it gets more out of hand... @inceptor
> 
> SAR I am hoping nothing more comes out of this and I wouldn't have been concerned, then Poland activity has come up, and Russia is almost hated as much as Germany by Poland... so it's a wait and see... it only takes one "stray" shell before it all completely goes to hell


 Yes we were late, but as I recall, the U.S.A. saved England and Frances butt, both times, and during WWII we kept the Aussies from speaking Japanese too. So whats the point, about the good ol U.S.A.? I must have missed it. Do we have to bail out the whole world, every time or maybe you guys could do the dying sometime, while we sit this one out? Dont worry too much though, we always end up savin the rest of the world, the U.S.Army will kick a$$ and take names as alway's. WOO sorry folks I just had to vent


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## Scotty12

You forgot to mention that we rebuilt Japan and Germany


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## Silverback

Polens præsident: Obama har lovet mig at beskytte os mod Rusland | Nyheder | DR

You will need to use a translator for this... However, Obama Just promised the Polish President the US would protect Poland if we needed too.... I am sure he feels so much better hearing that.

<Start Translation>
Fear of the Russian military has now spread from the Crimean peninsula and completely outside Ukraine.
Both Poland and Lithuania have asked NATO for protection against invasion from their neighboring country, Russia, by making use of a specific article in the NATO charter to ensure the two countries diplomatically.
READ ALSO Poland goes to Nato: Feeling threatened by Russia

Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski has previously stated that his country 'feel threatened by a potential Russian military intervention' in neighboring Ukraine, writes warsawvioce.pl .
But now, says the President of Poland, the United States promised to protect Poland against a military invasion from Russia.
Obama promises to Polish President
According to the Polish media thenews.pl were lifted to Komorowski be given by none other than U.S. President Barack Obama in a telephone conversation between the two leaders on Sunday night.
In the interview promised President Obama, according to Komorowski take responsibility 'week irrevocably Poland's security, knowing that Poland is not just neighbor of Ukraine, but also Russia', he says to thenews.pl .
Civil war in Ukraine will threaten Poland
Thus, it appears that Poland can feel a little more confident in relation to the threat posed by Russia's military. It should not however have the leadership to turn down the rhetoric.
READ THE Ukraine have sent aircraft up to meet Russian fighter jets

The Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said so that he fears that 'continuing instability in Ukraine or a civil war will create a greater threat to Poland in the long term, since we (Poland, ed.) Will be Borders to a war territory', he says to warsawvoice.pl.
<End Translation>


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## pheniox17

oldmurph58 said:


> Yes we were late, but as I recall, the U.S.A. saved England and Frances butt, both times, and during WWII we kept the Aussies from speaking Japanese too. So whats the point, about the good ol U.S.A.? I must have missed it. Do we have to bail out the whole world, every time or maybe you guys could do the dying sometime, while we sit this one out? Dont worry too much though, we always end up savin the rest of the world, the U.S.Army will kick a$$ and take names as alway's. WOO sorry folks I just had to vent


France changed sides many times during both wars

the bulk of Australia's military in ww2 was saving the Brits in Africa

(going to the political side) Anzacs have been involved in every major engagement the USA has had since ww2, you know the pos anzus treaty...

and bail out the world.... the USA has made a mess of the modern world and is yet to win a war since ww2 and it's still debatable if ww2 was decided by USA involvement (victors write the history books) so the bail out the world, how about cleaning its own mess, Iran is the last stable power in the middle east, thanks America....

should the USA get involved in this one, **** no... the USA will make the situation worse and the proven track record for winning wars is very poor

should the USA be ready to goto war, YES, ships should be ready and patrolling national interests.... and ready to reinforce/support defenders if it spills past Ukraine's boarders...

the point I was making is history repeats itself, the USA will be late getting involved in this one to, but when it dose, this time it will be too late, lessons learnt from ww2.....but hey you had your rant, only fitting I have mine


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## pheniox17

Silverback said:


> Polens præsident: Obama har lovet mig at beskytte os mod Rusland | Nyheder | DR
> 
> You will need to use a translator for this... However, Obama Just promised the Polish President the US would protect Poland if we needed too.... I am sure he feels so much better hearing that.
> 
> <Start Translation>
> Fear of the Russian military has now spread from the Crimean peninsula and completely outside Ukraine.
> Both Poland and Lithuania have asked NATO for protection against invasion from their neighboring country, Russia, by making use of a specific article in the NATO charter to ensure the two countries diplomatically.
> READ ALSO Poland goes to Nato: Feeling threatened by Russia
> 
> Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski has previously stated that his country 'feel threatened by a potential Russian military intervention' in neighboring Ukraine, writes warsawvioce.pl .
> But now, says the President of Poland, the United States promised to protect Poland against a military invasion from Russia.
> Obama promises to Polish President
> According to the Polish media thenews.pl were lifted to Komorowski be given by none other than U.S. President Barack Obama in a telephone conversation between the two leaders on Sunday night.
> In the interview promised President Obama, according to Komorowski take responsibility 'week irrevocably Poland's security, knowing that Poland is not just neighbor of Ukraine, but also Russia', he says to thenews.pl .
> Civil war in Ukraine will threaten Poland
> Thus, it appears that Poland can feel a little more confident in relation to the threat posed by Russia's military. It should not however have the leadership to turn down the rhetoric.
> READ THE Ukraine have sent aircraft up to meet Russian fighter jets
> 
> The Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said so that he fears that 'continuing instability in Ukraine or a civil war will create a greater threat to Poland in the long term, since we (Poland, ed.) Will be Borders to a war territory', he says to warsawvoice.pl.
> <End Translation>


Obama is a good lier, any US forces anywhere near Poland?? to give that promise, there needs to be something backing it up??


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## oldmurph58

:razz:


pheniox17 said:


> France changed sides many times during both wars
> 
> the bulk of Australia's military in ww2 was saving the Brits in Africa
> 
> (going to the political side) Anzacs have been involved in every major engagement the USA has had since ww2, you know the pos anzus treaty...
> 
> and bail out the world.... the USA has made a mess of the modern world and is yet to win a war since ww2 and it's still debatable if ww2 was decided by USA involvement (victors write the history books) so the bail out the world, how about cleaning its own mess, Iran is the last stable power in the middle east, thanks America....
> 
> should the USA get involved in this one, **** no... the USA will make the situation worse and the proven track record for winning wars is very poor
> 
> should the USA be ready to goto war, YES, ships should be ready and patrolling national interests.... and ready to reinforce/support defenders if it spills past Ukraine's boarders...
> 
> the point I was making is history repeats itself, the USA will be late getting involved in this one to, but when it dose, this time it will be too late, lessons learnt from ww2.....but hey you had your rant, only fitting I have mine


 Good rant, If anzacs are so great, Quality over Quantity, Then you dont need us, so again i ask, what was the point? If the U.S. military sucks as you claim, and Anzacs saved the world , why complain about the U.S. being late? couldn't get my smiley to work, But i do like a spirited debate. Bonzi


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## oldmurph58

pheniox17 said:


> Obama is a good lier, any US forces anywhere near Poland?? to give that promise, there needs to be something backing it up??


 Yes, a whole bunch in germany, any aussies?


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## Inor

Silverback said:


> Polens præsident: Obama har lovet mig at beskytte os mod Rusland | Nyheder | DR
> 
> You will need to use a translator for this... However, Obama Just promised the Polish President the US would protect Poland if we needed too.... I am sure he feels so much better hearing that.
> 
> <Start Translation>
> Fear of the Russian military has now spread from the Crimean peninsula and completely outside Ukraine.
> Both Poland and Lithuania have asked NATO for protection against invasion from their neighboring country, Russia, by making use of a specific article in the NATO charter to ensure the two countries diplomatically.
> READ ALSO Poland goes to Nato: Feeling threatened by Russia
> 
> Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski has previously stated that his country 'feel threatened by a potential Russian military intervention' in neighboring Ukraine, writes warsawvioce.pl .
> But now, says the President of Poland, the United States promised to protect Poland against a military invasion from Russia.
> Obama promises to Polish President
> According to the Polish media thenews.pl were lifted to Komorowski be given by none other than U.S. President Barack Obama in a telephone conversation between the two leaders on Sunday night.
> In the interview promised President Obama, according to Komorowski take responsibility 'week irrevocably Poland's security, knowing that Poland is not just neighbor of Ukraine, but also Russia', he says to thenews.pl .
> Civil war in Ukraine will threaten Poland
> Thus, it appears that Poland can feel a little more confident in relation to the threat posed by Russia's military. It should not however have the leadership to turn down the rhetoric.
> READ THE Ukraine have sent aircraft up to meet Russian fighter jets
> 
> The Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said so that he fears that 'continuing instability in Ukraine or a civil war will create a greater threat to Poland in the long term, since we (Poland, ed.) Will be Borders to a war territory', he says to warsawvoice.pl.
> <End Translation>


The only problem is, we signed a similar agreement with Ukraine right after the breakup of the USSR. Why would Poland trust us?


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## jro1

Russia is trying to protect it's investment, I believe the Ukraine owes them billions of dollars, and are being forced into becoming a member of the EU so that the country can be raped by the bankers, and a strategic NATO base can be set up once the USA is allowed to come to the perceived rescue once again.


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## Silverback

Inor said:


> The only problem is, we signed a similar agreement with Ukraine right after the breakup of the USSR. Why would Poland trust us?


My thoughts EXACTLY Inor, I am very troubled that we ignored the Clinton era Budapest Memorandum. What good is our word now?


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## oldmurph58

SAR-1L said:


> In the event that something were to spark out of this I can clearly see the way it would divvy up.
> 
> Russia, China, Iran, Syria, N. Korea, Germany, Iraq, Iran, Afgan, and every mother ****ing terrorist group that ever suicide bombed a market place.
> Plus at least another 40+ no name countries.
> 
> USA & Britain, Israel... I feel like France, Japan, Canada, Australia, Poland, etc... all respect are mostly non-factors. Sure they may join in but they just don't have the war strength of China, Russia, Germany, USA, Britain...
> 
> I feel like China & Russia would keep the US on it's heels, while NK would be ****ing up Japan.
> Germany would be rolling over Western Europe all over again,
> probably with help of a dozen plus middle east countries (Iran, Iraq, Afgan possibly even Egypt) with support from terrorist cells would rick roll Israel, then join up to hit Southern Europe.
> 
> Too me it is clear these countries with anti-american sentiment are helping each other, and hate us. You can see it in the politics, you can see it coming together geographically,
> and power balance wise it would be enough I feel to tip the scales to our disadvantage.
> 
> If something happens out of this, which I don't think it would, but if it did... we could possibly be on the losing end of this world war.


Dude i know colorado legalized dope (i wanna vacation there) but what are you smokin? Isreal already beat their a$$es several times, and the arabs aint been back since, and China and Russia vs. the U.S.A? The squids would sink their navy's boo koo quick. We fought against Russia's best tanks in iraq twice, they aint nothin, at least stick up for your own vs. the rest of the world. Amuse me, say the U.S. Army would crush their heads with a big ol rock. Come on Dude, we just fought 2 wars at once and to me they look like wins.Despite what my Aussie freind might say. Oh and dont leave out the U.S.M.C. their some terrible revisionist historians, but they are some fightin fools.


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## alterego

Iraq and Afghanistan were training missions or incursions. They were not wars very few here in the USA are alive still who actually seen a war.


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## pheniox17

oldmurph58 said:


> :razz: Good rant, If anzacs are so great, Quality over Quantity, Then you dont need us, so again i ask, what was the point? If the U.S. military sucks as you claim, and Anzacs saved the world , why complain about the U.S. being late? couldn't get my smiley to work, But i do like a spirited debate. Bonzi


never said or implied Anzacs saved the world.... I did say tho they are a quality force that shouldn't be underestimated...

Australia needs the USA nuclear arsenal, that's why it has its nose so far up USAs leaderships arse...

both ww1 and ww2 the USA been late was justified, my point here is to remind others of modern history and how it repeats itself, if this time it sparks ww3 and USA is a late addition to this war, you better learn Russian, or Chinese... it will be too little too late..

every military force has areas where they are stronger than others.. I made that point to... (just not in those words)

this is the one time if ww3 dose truly start where the sledge hammer of the US is required as a first blow, the USA is the only Western force that can provide that result... 
the UK still has the blue water ability to control the seas if needed, where forces like Australia will have their place in a world playing field and used for what they are designed as will be of grate tactical use... 
its my basic international strategy based on USAs modern invasions, and UK history, even in the Afghanistan campaign, Australia wasn't used to its full ability but the USA got a taste when a au General ran the Iraq war....

upscale to a ww3 event, if it starts, it starts, if the USA is not involved early (military wise) and sits on its hands, the chances are we will loose...

this is just my view on a ww3 scale, its no where near that stage yet... and until it gets to that stage the USA leadership needs to shut its mouth and not escalate the problem, and follow through on promised support (even having a frigate near by just to "show support") this will help prevent any action from let's say Poland from launching a pre emptive strike out of desperation... and that shows 0 involvement in Ukraine politics but 100% support for allies...

also on that note it's trickling out that the west caused this... if it did.... then ****... what did they expect


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## oldmurph58

alterego said:


> Iraq and Afghanistan were training missions or incursions. They were not wars very few here in the USA are alive still who actually seen a war.


Tell that to the gold star mother from all our wars and my fellow D.A.V.s I think they will disagree...commie.


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## pheniox17

oldmurph58 said:


> Yes, a whole bunch in germany, any aussies?


we haven't publicly shown any support to the defenders or to this situation


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## oldmurph58

pheniox17 said:


> never said or implied Anzacs saved the world.... I did say tho they are a quality force that shouldn't be underestimated...
> 
> Australia needs the USA nuclear arsenal, that's why it has its nose so far up USAs leaderships arse...
> 
> both ww1 and ww2 the USA been late was justified, my point here is to remind others of modern history and how it repeats itself, if this time it sparks ww3 and USA is a late addition to this war, you better learn Russian, or Chinese... it will be too little too late..
> 
> every military force has areas where they are stronger than others.. I made that point to... (just not in those words)
> 
> this is the one time if ww3 dose truly start where the sledge hammer of the US is required as a first blow, the USA is the only Western force that can provide that result...
> the UK still has the blue water ability to control the seas if needed, where forces like Australia will have their place in a world playing field and used for what they are designed as will be of grate tactical use...
> its my basic international strategy based on USAs modern invasions, and UK history, even in the Afghanistan campaign, Australia wasn't used to its full ability but the USA got a taste when a au General ran the Iraq war....
> 
> upscale to a ww3 event, if it starts, it starts, if the USA is not involved early (military wise) and sits on its hands, the chances are we will loose...
> 
> this is just my view on a ww3 scale, its no where near that stage yet... and until it gets to that stage the USA leadership needs to shut its mouth and not escalate the problem, and follow through on promised support (even having a frigate near by just to "show support") this will help prevent any action from let's say Poland from launching a pre emptive strike out of desperation... and that shows 0 involvement in Ukraine politics but 100% support for allies...
> 
> also on that note it's trickling out that the west caused this... if it did.... then ****... what did they expect


 Another good rebuttal, I gotta go for a few but i'll be back.


----------



## pheniox17

oldmurph58 said:


> Come on Dude, we just fought 2 wars at once and to me they look like wins.Despite what my Aussie freind might say.


define a win? the end of ww2 guns fell silent, the end of the Vietnam war (a civil war the USA took part in) the guns fell silent, the end of Afghanistan, suicide bombers are still applying their craft, bases are still been attacked, Iraq Fallujah has fallen, these wars have not been won and will go in history as a loss... we left too early, and I still support us (as in allied countries) staying there, but we left... (I didn't support the Iraq war, as it was too soon after Afghanistan, if Afghanistan became stable then invade iraq, but now both countries are stuffed)


----------



## rice paddy daddy

alterego said:


> Iraq and Afghanistan were training missions or incursions. They were not wars very few here in the USA are alive still who actually seen a war.


It was real for the Americans fighting them.
But, would you know anything about that, or just what you hear on CNN?


----------



## oldmurph58

pheniox17 said:


> define a win? the end of ww2 guns fell silent, the end of the Vietnam war (a civil war the USA took part in) the guns fell silent, the end of Afghanistan, suicide bombers are still applying their craft, bases are still been attacked, Iraq Fallujah has fallen, these wars have not been won and will go in history as a loss... we left too early, and I still support us (as in allied countries) staying there, but we left... (I didn't support the Iraq war, as it was too soon after Afghanistan, if Afghanistan became stable then invade iraq, but now both countries are stuffed)


 a win is goin home alive if your the one doing the fighting, if your counting bodies then throw in vietnam as a win too, 1 million dead commies 58000 american lives lost. the 2 world wars the enemy surrendered unconditionaly. our 3 little bushwars haiti panama and Grenada we did what we set out to do and left. I dont cut down the few aznacs who actually went and fought, as you so imperiously make note of, but the U.S. military has nothin to be ashamed of my pinko, hippie, freind from down under. How many engagements were you involved in, Gen Patton? I think still, despite your good points, that the U.S. has seen more than our share of the stuff, and if you can do better, go for it. The U.S. military has never lost a major engagement and they are not gonna start now. Our politians may quit, and be weak sisterss but our soldiers aint............elvis has left the building! oh and this treaty you wrote of who benifits you or us?


----------



## pheniox17

oldmurph58 said:


> a win is goin home alive if your the one doing the fighting, if your counting bodies then throw in vietnam as a win too, 1 million dead commies 58000 american lives lost. the 2 world wars the enemy surrendered unconditionaly. our 3 little bushwars haiti panama and aruba we did what we set out to do and left. I dont cut down the few aznacs who actually went and fought, as you so imperiously make note of, but the U.S. military has nothin to be ashamed of my pinko, hippie, freind from down under. How many engagements were you involved in, Gen Patton? I think still, despite your good points, that the U.S. has seen more than our share of the stuff, and if you can do better, go for it. The U.S. military has never lost a major engagement and they are not gonna start now. Our politians may quit, and be weak sisterss but our soldiers aint............elvis has left the building!


i have to say our definitions of a win are very different

Vietnam war the USA supported the south, the south lost

the 2 world wars are a triumph, but since ww2 the USA hasn't won a major war, they have won many battles, but in the big picture lost the actual war
the golf war, maybe a exception, USA forces did complete the objective of liberating Kuwait, but failed to finish Iraq, and we had to go back....
since Vietnam and the political fear... has a massive bearing on US foreign policy in regards to war

peace keeping and throwing the "dick" around should all be successes, but real wars...

the US military has only one thing to be ashamed of (and this tracks back to ww1) it's failure to learn from mistakes, not just their own but others......

the solider on the ground pays the price of these mistakes.... (so it's a arrogant officer/leadership issue)

and I haven't discredited the US military in a ww3 event, outside they will be late to the party, and that will be what will cost the war, and the effectiveness of the USA as a sledgehammer shows the soldiers are extremely capable in that role, and should be utilized in the early stages of a war... it's the follow through that gets gray... but since Afghanistan, some things have changed that may clear it up.. (I hope, but this is one of the strengths of the UK)

it's a such is life debate, that's moving to the effectiveness of a military, yet it's only as effective as public support (so on the note about weak politicians, you're 110% right)

oh Australia successfully invaded and liberated east Timor from Indonesia.. so we have had our own little war...

the thing to keep in mind with today's climate and Ukraine is the cause of ww3 (hypothetical) this war will be 2 major superpowers vs one weakened superpower, and her allies, never underestimate your enemy, never discredit your allies, and under no circumstances overestimate your own capability

the USA will be the key to winning or losing ww3 it's just what it is.... and I hope your next political leader has a massive set of balls


----------



## oldmurph58

another good round i salute you and good night


----------



## Scotty12

Not to be a smart ass but Albert Einstein stopped WW II. Just sayin'


----------



## pheniox17

Scotty12 said:


> Not to be a smart ass but Albert Einstein stopped WW II. Just sayin'


the war in Europe was over before the bomb was dropped

but good call sir, I doubt Einstein would admit to that tho...


----------



## pheniox17

update: 16,000 Russian troops are now in the Ukraine 

USA is claiming the invasion is illegal

in the UN, USA is pissing on Russia 

in the EU, emergency talks are taking place 

meanwhile Russia is claiming it was requested to intervene by the ousted Ukraine government

atm it's all words, it can still escalate, especially when.the US is talking sanctions against Russia


----------



## PaulS

Einstein was not allowed to work on the bomb. Robert Oppenheimer was the project lead and there were hundreds of others all working on different aspects of the two different weapons.


----------



## alterego

Please understand I am not trying to diminish those that serve and I can see how my post could be interpreted that way. Shame on me for not clarifying. I am referring towards the lack of sacrifice by the home land in general. The typical shmoe goes on about his daily business in the USA not experiencing the war effort. This was not the case in ww1 and ww2. So as for the level of commitment by the country I stand by my statement that these were training excersizes.


----------



## Smitty901

rice paddy daddy said:


> It was real for the Americans fighting them.
> But, would you know anything about that, or just what you hear on CNN?


 I do understand what your saying, but it sure felt like one.


----------



## Smitty901

We are not going to war with Russia not going to happen.
Even if it was necessary and it is not. Obama has all the wrong people in place and he would not have a clue where to start.
Russia will play the game until it is sure The Ukraine shows some respect and get back in line.
Oh and as of today Russia said there are no Russian troops in Crimea.
I do not think Putin is one bit concerned about anything Obama has to say. And even less the UN.


----------



## Notsoyoung

Putin doesn't care what Obama says. It is empty rhetoric similar to some drunk in a bar shooting off his mouth. It means nothing. Obama will do nothing and the EU will do nothing. The EU gets 80% of it's natural gas from Russia. They will not do anything to risk having those pipelines shut down, especially for Ukraine.


----------



## Silverback

Smitty901 said:


> Oh and as of today Russia said there are no Russian troops in Crimea.


http://rt.com/news/russian-troops-crimea-ukraine-816/

Seems they have 16,000 and are allowed up to 25,000 based on previous treaties. Not really any law has been broken yet, or from their sources it would seem they are in line with allowable limits.


----------



## Smitty901

Well now we know what the cause of all of this is. It is Bush's fault . I told you this was coming
From the Madcow her self
Rachel Maddow is being a great journalist while covering Ukraine?Just kidding, she is blaming Bush | Young Conservatives

Let me correct her. Bush told Russia you don't want to go there and they agreed. The last thing they wanted to do was go toe to toe with Bush.
Obama on the other hand is the one person they do not fear.


----------



## Silverback

Timing is everything... even in tests like this

? ???????????? ??????? ???????? ?????????????????? ?????? "??????" | ??? ???????

Translation
MOSCOW, March 4 - RIA Novosti. test launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile from the landfill had a "Kapustin Yar" in Astrakhan region, said Tuesday the representative of the Press and Information of the Russian Defense Ministry on RVSN Igor Yegorov.
Deployment of anti-missile system S-300. Archive photo.
© RIA Novosti. Vladislav Belogrud | Buy this image
The most formidable weapon on the domestic version RIA Novosti
Launch missiles RS-12M "Topol" was held on Tuesday at 22.10 combat crew Strategic Missile Forces with State Central Multipurpose landfill "Kapustin Yar" in Astrakhan region.
"The aim was to test a promising start warheads of intercontinental ballistic missiles. Training warhead missiles struck with a given accuracy conditional on goal range" Sary-Shagan "(Republic of Kazakhstan)," - said in a release.
Test runs and measuring complex polygon polygon "Kapustin Yar" allow testing of future combat equipment, the ability to overcome missile defense system, including promising configuration over the entire range of possible conditions for its delivery to the objectives in the interests of the Strategic Missile Forces and the Navy, as the report says.
What is the RS-12M "Topol"
Missile complex "Topol" is the basis of grouping of Strategic Missile Forces. Thus it is highly survivable due to its maneuverability, stealth and small-time training missiles for launch. According to the Defense Ministry, the extension of the operating groups missiles "Topol" with minimal financial costs allows the systematic replacement missiles out of operation for a new generation of missiles without peak loads on the military budget.
What awaits the defense industry in 2014
One of the most anticipated events of the year will be the introduction into service of the third strategic missile series 955 "Borey" - "Vladimir Monomakh". Epic with additional launches of intercontinental ballistic missile "Bulava" also should be resolved in the next year. It is expected that there will be five more starts, with most of them - from the board "Vladimir Monomakh". Also in 2014, the Russian Defense Ministry will start construction of the National Center for State defense management. Will take effect several important laws, including the lump sum cash payment (EDV) for the acquisition of military housing and flexible pricing for military products


----------



## ApexPredator

Honestly I think it would honestly be a joke of a war we would take the air and the sea without question and thats all that matters then we would attack in overwhelming force 3 to 1 is the rule. As far as "our losses" go the politicians have lost wars the military has gotten so efficient at fighting in afghanistan your odds of dieing are higher in the states hard to call that a loss fact check it if you dont believe.


----------



## oddapple

It could be a cold war with one "justifying" incident...I mean, obammy and crew can stay in power and destroy us if only one false flag bo mb or something goes off blamed on putin, but on the real, we play the sanction game and in return they crash our economy. That's why I think no matter what is happening, kerry and obammy just keep running their mouths when no one cares what they say. They are determined to start this. I hope they get foiled again! Ahahaha!
But yeah, obammy keeps his stranglehold and destroys us if:
Kremlin economic aide Sergei Glazyev said on
Tuesday that Russia will reduce its economic
dependency on the United States if Washington
decides to impose sanctions against Moscow
over the issue of Ukraine.

“We would find a way not just to reduce our
dependency on the United States to zero but to
emerge from those sanctions with great benefits
for ourselves,” Glazyev said, adding that Russia
could stop using dollars for international
transactions.

“An attempt to announce sanctions would end in
a crash for the financial system of the United
States, which would cause the end of the
domination of the United States in the global
financial system.”

The comments came a day after US President
Barack Obama threatened Russia with
sanctions.

If Russia continues its deployment of troops in
Ukraine’s Crimea, the United States will take a
“series of steps – economic, diplomatic – that
will isolate Russia and will have a negative
impact on Russia’s economy and its status in the
world,” Obama stated.

In an interview with a US news network a day
earlier, US Secretary of State John Kerry also
warned Russian President Vladimir Putin over
the deployment of Russian troops to Crimea,
saying Russia could be ousted from the G8
developed nations if it continues on present
path.

Kerry also threatened that Washington could
target Russia’s state-run financial institutions
and freeze assets of top-ranking Russian officials
involved in the Crimea crisis.

Moscow’s military deployment to Crimea comes
after Russia’s parliament gave the green-light to
president Putin to use military forces to protect
its interests in the Black Sea territory.


----------



## PalmettoTree

We have two practical options. Blockade the Black Sea ports. Or just shut up.


----------



## pheniox17

- U.S. TO PLAY BIGGER ROLE IN BALTIC
AIR POLICING MISSION: "The military is
stepping up operations with European
allies in the face of the Ukraine crisis,
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said
Wednesday, but the administration will
continue to pursue a mostly diplomatic and
economic strategy as it tries to 'de-escalate' the standoff," reports POLITICO's
Philip Ewing. Military steps up training amid Ukraine crisis - Philip Ewing - POLITICO.com

At the request of its Baltic allies, the U.S. is
augmenting its participation in NATO's Air
Policing mission in the region and will
increase joint training through its aviation
detachment in Poland, Hagel told the
Senate Armed Services Committee.

Later, the Pentagon provided more details.
It's sending six additional F-15s and one
KC-135 in addition to the four F-15s the
U.S. is already providing. These aircraft -currently based at RAF Lakenheath in the
United Kingdom - will be deployed to
Siauliai Air Base in Lithuania.

Meanwhile, the State Department issued a
list yesterday of 10 false claims it says
Russian President Vladimir Putin has made
about Ukraine. President Putin's Fiction: 10 False Claims about Ukraine


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Judge Napalitano wrote a very good column for today's Fox News. He states that American agents fomented the Ukraine uprising, just as they did the Egypt uprising.
Y'all should read it, he makes some very good points.


----------



## pheniox17

pheniox17 said:


> Meanwhile, the State Department issued a
> list yesterday of 10 false claims it says
> Russian President Vladimir Putin has made
> about Ukraine. President Putin's Fiction: 10 False Claims about Ukraine


just went through this link, and it reads like propaganda, almost like the lead up to Iraq, Obama may (I doubt it a lot but may) discovered he has a set of balls


----------



## SAR-1L

moving my reply post to a new thread, cause it is too long and will probably get lost in the pages of this topic.


----------



## Mike45

I remember when the Cold War was a bad thing.......now I remember it with a sense of nostalgia.


----------



## Silverback

Looks like the oustad Ukrainian President is not doing so well.

"Moskowskij Komsomolec": Wiktor Janukowycz przeszed? zawa? - TVN24

Translation: "Moskovsky Komsomolets" reported on Thursday that *Viktor Yanukovych* had a heart attack. Ousted president of Ukraine is in serious condition to stay in one of the Moscow hospitals.


----------



## Smitty901

Now that Obama has solved the problems with Russia he is off on a vacation


----------



## oddapple

He's out begging anyone to sign up for o-theft-a-care and ttrying to campaign. That's what he's doing.


----------



## Smitty901

Obama has Holder go out and tell all the State AG to not enforce laws they don't like. Obama himself by passes laws he don't agree with.
Where doe he get any moral authority to tell Russia they are breaking a law. Mr Obama if you don't like a law don't follow it. Your words sir.
Then of course there is this Referendum in Crimea would violate international law. Was it not Obama that said this kind of thing was just fine. Referendum are the peoples voice and that trumps law
Referendum in Crimea would violate international law


----------



## rickkyw1720pf

I think when it comes to international ambitions Obama is just out classed by Putin. Obama just looks weak and has said nothing that would began to stop Russia if they wanted to remake the old soviet union. Sending 5 or 6 f-15's (not even our top jets) to Poland is a joke and I don't know who he is trying to impress.


----------



## rickkyw1720pf

I wish the moderators would make a Master thread for Ukraine as I believe this is the 3rd or 4th on Ukraine. This Ukrainian thing could end up blowing up big time.


----------



## oddapple

He's trying to impress us...sadly


----------



## pheniox17

Ukrainian military abandoning bases in Crimea after being warned they are now ?enemy combatants? | News.com.au

another update


----------



## oddapple

Vlad the Reclaimer!


----------



## Smitty901

Will History in Russia remember Obama fondly.


----------



## oddapple

The only enjoyable horror about this is watching chimp chump trying to cobble together some "order" where he is total dictator - I believe he's even as pathetic as immanuel cleaver and john kerry now. Was all along, just enjoying the parts of the lie dance where ocrudda reveals himself so stupid, clueless and criminally malific but pee-po pathetic. The little commie who couldn't. Ahhh


----------



## SAR-1L

This comes from the german chancellor:

"If these instruments do not produce results, there are two options left. To opt for next strongest sanctions, I proposed a set of nonviolent, economic measures."
* The alternative, she said, was to give Crimea to Russia.* "They have to be very convincing for Putin to send the strongest signal that it would not be tolerated."

So if diplomacy doesn't work we just let the invader have what they want... what a strong message that will send to the other peon extremist countries like
NK, Syria, Iran, etc. I could see it now, if diplomacy and sanctions don't work on IRAN we have two options... "opt for next strongest sanctions or allow them to have nukes."
But hey I guess that is how it rolled out in Syria to just let him continue to kill his own people after setting a red line.

Not getting involved is just fine, as long as you aren't dumb enough to say here is a red line, don't cross it, don't do it, and then all of a sudden, well we can't control you
so do what you want.


----------



## pheniox17

SAR-1L said:


> This comes from the german chancellor:
> 
> "If these instruments do not produce results, there are two options left. To opt for next strongest sanctions, I proposed a set of nonviolent, economic measures."
> * The alternative, she said, was to give Crimea to Russia.* "They have to be very convincing for Putin to send the strongest signal that it would not be tolerated."


well this is the most truth I have ever seen from a government official... a cop out but it's true, and will be the example sighted for generations to come... I'm waiting for China's response.. you know over Japanese air space


----------



## Silverback

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
-- Albert Einstein

From the looks of it, WW3 is being fought with words... I guess we can say politicians are in the foxholes?


----------



## oddapple

If'n it a foxhole....why do it smell like that? (Hmmm)

I have been more worried about opportunism from the obammy cartel on us more than what putin or china will do. I don't think we're out of the woods until it can't be used and he has to find something else. He has already gloriously signed his self supreme dictator, his biggest rush ever. Too bad the word "fraud" in his head ruins it for him....


----------



## SAR-1L

oddapple said:


> If'n it a foxhole....why do it smell like that? (Hmmm)
> 
> I have been more worried about opportunism from the obammy cartel on us more than what putin or china will do. I don't think we're out of the woods until it can't be used and he has to find something else. He has already gloriously signed his self supreme dictator, his biggest rush ever. Too bad the word "fraud" in his head ruins it for him....


The arrogant punk on a talk show referred to himself as Champion and Chief.... I prefer to regard him as Idiot n Chief.


----------



## oddapple

Ahaha! Typical...his type. The "Champion" is the guy that fights the king's battle. The exact opposite of a coward and a squib like him. That's what I mean about absolutely-eve-ry-thing he says belies his being anything but a hoser of the feckless, which nobody has esplanied to lucy that it takes more than being a nothing, turd spittoon fisher to run a superpower and sit indoors with people. Of course, "special parking pass" because the great world leader has a pass to be ridiculous and still "entitled". (Puke)


----------



## jro1

SAR-1L said:


> This comes from the german chancellor:
> 
> "If these instruments do not produce results, there are two options left. To opt for next strongest sanctions, I proposed a set of nonviolent, economic measures."
> * The alternative, she said, was to give Crimea to Russia.* "They have to be very convincing for Putin to send the strongest signal that it would not be tolerated."
> 
> So if diplomacy doesn't work we just let the invader have what they want... what a strong message that will send to the other peon extremist countries like
> NK, Syria, Iran, etc. I could see it now, if diplomacy and sanctions don't work on IRAN we have two options... "opt for next strongest sanctions or allow them to have nukes."
> But hey I guess that is how it rolled out in Syria to just let him continue to kill his own people after setting a red line.
> 
> Not getting involved is just fine, as long as you aren't dumb enough to say here is a red line, don't cross it, don't do it, and then all of a sudden, well we can't control you
> so do what you want.


In this case, Ukraine is better off in the hands of Russia and re pay the billions it owes to them, And not get Raped by the Banksters who are forcing them to become a member of the EU! Ukraine will be in worse shape if it Becomes a member, it will be raped and pillaged until it meets the same demise as the P.I.G.S. (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain)


----------



## Smitty901

Crimea has already been given to Russia. We had made promise to the Ukraine it seems with Obama in office our word is as worthless as he is


----------



## SAR-1L

Jro and smitty, you are both probably right. I don't care for Putin, but you have to give it to him,
he invaded a country and took it over without a single person needing to be shot. Why, cause people
fear russia even as a weakened version of the soviet empire. No one fears us, and why would they
when we invade, and then offer to rebuild the countries infrastructure.


----------



## jro1

When we invade, We ship the oil back home and then we establish a banking system to make sure we get every ones money! "There is no such thing as a free lunch"


----------



## Smitty901

We in the US do not get our oil from the middle east Europe and China do . US oil comes from US, Canada, Mexico and Venezuela. Just to darn expensive to ship it here less than 11% has ever came from the middle east. Playing that tired old it about the oil line just don't stand up. That is just to easy a scape goat for the real issues in the Middle east.
Back to Current events . What is going to happen to our space program? I a spirit of cooperation we dumped our only way to send people up.
We of course made Russia the taxi service.


----------



## jro1

The oil doesn't need to be shipped here, it is shipped else where for a profit! and that is how they control the price around the world!


----------



## pheniox17

update, estimated 30,000 Russian troops are now in Crimea, source 9news Australia (yea idk how good the source is, but that's the report)


----------



## jro1

pheniox17 said:


> update, estimated 30,000 Russian troops are now in Crimea, source 9news Australia (yea idk how good the source is, but that's the report)


It really isn't that exciting anymore! Not until someone loses an eye


----------



## alterego

Why is it that the Russian soldiers are troops. When in a foreghn country.
And USA forces are piece keepers, liberators, trainers.


----------



## pheniox17

alterego said:


> Why is it that the Russian soldiers are troops. When in a foreghn country.
> And USA forces are piece keepers, liberators, trainers.


western point of view??


----------



## SAR-1L

Ukraine may have to go nuclear, says Kiev lawmaker

Ukraine wants to become renuclearized... curious I don't think NATO would allow it, but I don't think Ukraine will get the assistance it seeks.


----------



## Silverback

I kinda figured this was a given to happen Sar, considering the treaty they signed to disarm promised protection when they did. I would consider it their right not to be infringed now that we did not comply with our side of the treaty. I am not saying I want it, but I see no reason from our actions that they should not re arm.


----------



## oddapple

There are enough countries with nukes. Nobody needs anymore.


----------



## SAR-1L

I think the side effect is it will get iran on that path again of needing nukes... + you will probably hear old Jung Fatty YUNG piping up again about how N Korea must be nuclear to keep out US invaders.


----------



## Silverback

What we are going to see here as our Clout is now diminished (or our word for protection, your choice of view) is a rearming. I do not think anyone end their right mind wants to see more countries with red buttons, I'd rather just hand them a red phone to batman... Kidding.

The reality is one of our jobs as a police force worldwide was to reduce the armament of countries with the promise of US protection. Sure it cost us a lot but it provided at least sensible boundaries to Nuclear arms. We under the Obama Administration have lost the respect to do this anymore. In turn the countries you mentioned and others will arm. More world leaders with Red buttons, more tempers to worry about and the risk of course goes up as well for one of the buttons to be pressed. We get what we vote for and sometimes, we get more than any of us could have predicted.


----------



## SAR-1L

"_But there seems little doubt that Ukrainian forces will be evicted from Kremlin-controlled Crimea once the truce expires on Friday. Crimea's deputy prime minister, Rustam Temirgaliyev, said on Sunday troops would be given safe passage out. He predicted that eastern Ukraine would be next to join Russia.

"Donetsk, Lugansk, Kharkiv have the same situation (as in Crimea). Seventy-five per cent of people want to join Russia in eastern Ukraine," he told journalists near the parliament building in Simferopol.

There was further turmoil in Donetsk when pro-Russian protesters stormed the prosecutor's office and removed the Ukrainian flag from the roof raising a Russian flag in its place. Riot police deployed to protect the building made little effort to stop the crowd, which later dispersed._"

Russia is definitely going to invade/takeover Ukraine... I don't see Ukraine fighting if Ukraine keeps its country it will be NATO's fight, and if NATO doesn't then Russia will without doubt consume all of Ukraine.

Edit: Russia already invaded part of mainland ukraine... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...in-mainland-Ukraine-ahead-of-Crimea-vote.html

+ Russian Army prepares Heavy Military Equipment for the Invasion of Kharkov Ukraine, March 12, 2014


----------



## Smitty901

SAR-1L said:


> Ukraine may have to go nuclear, says Kiev lawmaker
> 
> Ukraine wants to become renuclearized... curious I don't think NATO would allow it, but I don't think Ukraine will get the assistance it seeks.


 The Ukraine can not join NATO. One big requirement to join NATO is no land in dispute . Ukraine will always have land in dispute as long as there is a Russia. Sense when has The US or NATO not wanting a country to go Nuke stopped them?


----------



## StarPD45

Russia has Putin.
U.S. has pu**y.


----------



## pharmer14

SAR-1L said:


> Ukraine may have to go nuclear, says Kiev lawmaker
> 
> Ukraine wants to become renuclearized... curious I don't think NATO would allow it, but I don't think Ukraine will get the assistance it seeks.


Well objectively speaking I don't think the west has a hill of beans to stand on in telling them no.

One one hand, Ukraine gave up their nukes because of promises from the US... which we promptly ignored... On the 2nd hand, denying Ukraine nukes would be seen as siding with Russia...

So start up the centrifuges...

IMO the POTUS and the rest of the politicians in the US should keep their trap shut... at least until we get people who possess spines in office... then maybe my answer changes... maybe...


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## jro1

.....


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## SAR-1L

well with a ukraine soldier killed and now authorized to use force against russia popcorn may not be a bad prep item.


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## jro1

SAR-1L said:


> well with a ukraine soldier killed and now authorized to use force against russia popcorn may not be a bad prep item.


It's going to be quite the show!


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## oddapple

No, it's most likely not going to be much of a show ~ the US is on suicide watch owing to our incompetent and criminal administration.
This was pretty good and drama free:





Basically, it's already over. I have noticed more than a couple times something started and the black house got shut out before they could opportunize the situation. Hopefully, like it seems, this is another fizzle but Obammy is losing his opportunity which means risk at the least, catastrophe at the worst and anything in between for us because obamakerrymccain really wanted this bad. (Bwahahahaha!)


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## pheniox17

seen this topic on the news again tonight, its going to be known as a economic war, against a state that will happily close it's boarders


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## oddapple

I was just rolling laughing about oscumma, kerry and mccain - they put on a big bs show and made their selves look even worse than they did. I knew they should have took their purses and gone back inside....I just didn't know how much they should have! Ahahahaha!


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## rice paddy daddy

SAR-1L said:


> well with a ukraine soldier killed and now authorized to use force against russia popcorn may not be a bad prep item.


Let them kill each other if they so desire. The land and the people are THEIR problem. Not America's. Perhaps the EU, but not America.


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## pheniox17

rice paddy daddy said:


> Let them kill each other if they so desire. The land and the people are THEIR problem. Not America's. Perhaps the EU, but not America.


i have a funny feeling America is responsible for the start of this event, and should both admit to the world Obama and his lackeys are dumb as bat shit and caused all this, and accept Russia's actions with a real warning, do this shit again and we will goto war (hopefully Obama and his lackeys retire, and someone with balls gives the warning)

and piss this economic bull shit off...


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## rice paddy daddy

pheniox17 said:


> i have a funny feeling America is responsible for the start of this event, and should both admit to the world Obama and his lackeys are dumb as bat shit and caused all this, and accept Russia's actions with a real warning, do this shit again and we will goto war (hopefully Obama and his lackeys retire, and someone with balls gives the warning)
> 
> and piss this economic bull shit off...


There are reports the Obama Regime provided funding and operational advice to the Ukraine opposition, so perhaps some of the blame can be laid at America's feet. But even then, we would have just been enablers.
Obama seems to have a track record of supporting revolutionaries (Syria, Libya, Egypt).


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## Inor

rice paddy daddy said:


> There are reports the Obama Regime provided funding and operational advice to the Ukraine opposition, so perhaps some of the blame can be laid at America's feet. But even then, we would have just been enablers.
> Obama seems to have a track record of supporting revolutionaries (Syria, Libya, Egypt).


That is 100% true and think of the irony of it. He supports the revolutionaries in every other country, but sends the IRS after the TEA Party...


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## SAR-1L

Inor said:


> That is 100% true and think of the irony of it. He supports the revolutionaries in every other country, but sends the IRS after the TEA Party...


It makes perfect sense though Inor, he starts uprisings in other countries cause it throws them into turmoil, what country is a threat when in turmoil?
What he didn't count on is getting caught, and it coming back to bite us in the ass, now everyone is catching on and the US is drawing tons of neg 
attention.

You see he wants us to be controlled and sedated for stability of him and the chronies here.
He uses destabilization in other countries as a weapon, just like economic sanctions.

Also most people hate the US now so whoever replaces the previous leader usually now
hates us more than the previous guy.


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## oddapple

Uh...why are people saying that these "rebels" are neo fascists/nazis? People have been photoshopping him in a hitler outfit, I just didn't know they had stooped so low.


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## Inor

SAR-1L said:


> It makes perfect sense though Inor, he starts uprisings in other countries cause it throws them into turmoil, what country is a threat when in turmoil?
> What he didn't count on is getting caught, and it coming back to bite us in the ass, now everyone is catching on and the US is drawing tons of neg
> attention.
> 
> You see he wants us to be controlled and sedated for stability of him and the chronies here.
> He uses destabilization in other countries as a weapon, just like economic sanctions.
> 
> Also most people hate the US now so whoever replaces the previous leader usually now
> hates us more than the previous guy.


I completely understand and agree with you. The difference is age. I'll be dead in another 25-30 years. You will have to live with this B.S. for a while.

My kids are grown and gone. Most of my expenses are paid for. So what do I have to lose?  I can well afford to be loud at my stage in life.


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## pheniox17

throwing more out there 
in the old days America was criticized for being the "world police"

now America is just a pussy


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## survivalist77

The Ukraine is a nation that should live. However, I am not distracted by its plight because Obama-land is a communist police state, with a one party system, several secret police agencies, many minority-parasite haters of freedom and a government that is afrocentric, moslemcentric and a communist police state. 
If the Russians will help those of us who realize that obama is "president for life" and facilitate our Constitutionalist Revolution, then they can have whatever they want. *REAL POLITIK:* The Constitutionalist Revolution needs foreign assistance. I fought communism and moslemism all my life; I will do whatever necessary to destroy the tyranny that controls this fragmented, balkanized government that perceives law abiding white citizens as slaves-to-be. If you cannot see reality, just ignore me. I am not here to change your mind but to juxtapose reality against fantasy, for those who care and want what I want. If you believe that "it will all be good after the next election," I label you sheeple. Sheeple will not change.


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## Montana Rancher

pheniox17 said:


> reports are 6000 Russian troops (not confirmed...)
> 
> they have a military base and a communication centre, they are also surrounding the capital (no big deal.....)
> 
> Poland has just deployed tanks at the border... (this is the F moment, if it escalates much further... expect a confrontation...)
> 
> source: a military Facebook page
> 
> note: i understand there is now 3 topics on this subject, it maybe a good idea to post updates on the military situation not political, as this may (I stress may) be the early stages to a world war, as it's gained international attention


Under the current treaty the USSR can keep 25k troops in Ukraine


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## pheniox17

Montana Rancher said:


> Under the current treaty the USSR can keep 25k troops in Ukraine


thanks for sharing MR, as that wasn't what rang the alarm bell...


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## survivalist77

What the F....?
I have been told that this is a "fun forum, a place where no thinking is welcome and a vented silliness is the norm." If that is so, then why not advertise it as that? Why be so dishonest? Wait, I know wht. Trolls create their own sites under false pretenses all over the internet. Preppers and surviving, are two serious elements of our society. If you are an idiot, on here to make fun of survivalism because you are too ignorant to do anything more than try to put down people, then you are not "cool" as you think. You are a fungus pretending to be a prepper in order to undermine the entire idea. If you are creepy enough to devise something like that, then you won't have the cajones to say so up front. Don't creep it in after you have wasted some unwary prepper's time. Why not? Because a stake might be driven right through the tissue of your insanity!


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## Slippy

Peace through Strength no longer exists. The Reagan way. Very sad to see this regime do what they do.


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## rice paddy daddy

survivalist77 said:


> What the F....?
> I have been told that this is a "fun forum, a place where no thinking is welcome and a vented silliness is the norm." If that is so, then why not advertise it as that? Why be so dishonest? Wait, I know wht. Trolls create their own sites under false pretenses all over the internet. Preppers and surviving, are two serious elements of our society. If you are an idiot, on here to make fun of survivalism because you are too ignorant to do anything more than try to put down people, then you are not "cool" as you think. You are a fungus pretending to be a prepper in order to undermine the entire idea. If you are creepy enough to devise something like that, then you won't have the cajones to say so up front. Don't creep it in after you have wasted some unwary prepper's time. Why not? Because a stake might be driven right through the tissue of your insanity!


feel free to move on if you wish.


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## rice paddy daddy

Meanwhile, Putin moves in on a former member of the Soviet Union while Obama (a) goes to Miami with his family for a weekend, and (b) after returning from Miami can find no matter more pressing than filling out his NCAA basketball bracket.


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## SAR-1L

Fighting words from Vladimir Putin? | On Air Videos | Fox News

Former DA Sec of Defense - KT Mcarfland Says "Russia is looking to now destroy NATO, it is personal."


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## pheniox17

another update (Lyman terms)

USA and EU have passed sanctions on Russia.. restrictions on a few "elite" class, on travel and trade

Russia in a true we don't give a f fashion, posed same restrictions on the USA and the EU... 

enjoy (yes there have been talks about this, it's finally official)

oh Russia has been evicted from the G8


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## StarPD45

rice paddy daddy said:


> Meanwhile, Putin moves in on a former member of the Soviet Union while Obama (a) goes to Miami with his family for a weekend, and (b) after returning from Miami can find no matter more pressing than filling out his NCAA basketball bracket.


Sounds about right. :-?


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## lancestar2

This is a great new source from a hands on source. It's interesting to watch the tensions there along with the withdraw of troops from older video's too.






From what I hear many people think Russia will invade and take east Ukraine and being that they are not a EU nation or NATO nation they are SOL. Hopfully Obama does not do anything stupid such as dispute Russia's invasion with force to secure some stupid oil pipelines...


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## jro1

Don't worry, Obama will not do anything to put a stop to this, you see, this a game that these type of people like to play, It's like command and conquer on a grande scale, And after the game is won, they all get together and sip fine brandy while discussing the next game!


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## inceptor

Ok Lance, I'm impressed. That was pretty good. ::clapping::

Now if we can just keep the US out of the war, we'll be okay. However, I think someone, or several someone's, will stick their foot in their mouth and start some serious shit unintentionally.


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## lancestar2

Russia maybe still a growing nation.... in size that is...






I just hope everybody can just sit back and let Russia take over there former ally... Perhaps we might get a new "western" nation out of the scraps of the West Ukraine! lol


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## jro1

lancestar2 said:


> Russia maybe still a growing nation.... in size that is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just hope everybody can just sit back and let Russia take over there former ally... Perhaps we might get a new "western" nation out of the scraps of the West Ukraine! lol


probably get a NATO base to build on the scraps!


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## Hawaii Volcano Squad

There was a lot of Russian propagandists posting on the AK Forum website.
It pissed them off to no end when i posted:
"**** Putin & **** Russia" on there. Also:
"**** the KGB & the GRU."


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## PalmettoTree

I think Putin is spoiling for a fight with Obama. He is going to push until there is one or humiliated him in front of the world.


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## rice paddy daddy

inceptor said:


> Now if we can just keep the US out of the war, we'll be okay. However, I think someone, or several someone's, will stick their foot in their mouth and start some serious shit unintentionally.


Do you mean someone like John "I'm A War Hero" Kerry, or Barack "The Puppet" Obama?
Yes, I can certainly see those two buffoons starting a nuclear war.


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## James m

Id pay to see a fist fight between the two of them. Pay per view? Id put my money on Putin myself....


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