# Church Shootings



## 23897

News just coming in…
At least 27 dead in Texas church shootinghttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41880511

Be safe people. 

God bless

Ian


Sent from my iPhone using Technology whilst it still exists.


----------



## Mish

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve40th

WTH. Very sad, incredibly sad the children are killed..


----------



## stowlin

RIP to the victims, blessings to their families and rot in hell offender.


----------



## Gator Monroe

I won't wait for far left & left to politicize this , was this another " When Liberals Attack Incident " ?


----------



## Kauboy

Every Sunday morning, I enter the church house with a bible case tucked under my arm. Inside said case is a Glock 19 and 30 rounds of hollowpoints.

I don't think I'll ever have to answer the question "why" anymore.

Prayers for the victims.


----------



## Robie

I think you'll start to see more people carrying their Bibles into Church.


----------



## Smitty901

I carry the same way all of the time all the Pastors knows I carry


----------



## Steve40th

Gator Monroe said:


> I won't wait for far left & left to politicize this , was this another " When Liberals Attack Incident " ?


Backlash after Chelsea Handler quickly blames Republicans for Texas shooting | Fox News


----------



## rstanek

My prayers to the families of the fallen, the slaughter of Christians continues world wide and is full blown here in the United States, we need to arm ourselves and eliminate soft targets.....these lunatics they carry out these criminal acts are cowards and go unchallenged......


----------



## Mish

Gator Monroe said:


> I won't wait for far left & left to politicize this , was this another " When Liberals Attack Incident " ?


Isn't it funny that you just did.
Another white terrorist, another white terrorist!!! Who are we banning?!!!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Camel923

Funny that the best place to carry is where your not allowed or most people would not consider carrying concealed?


----------



## Gator Monroe

Mish said:


> Isn't it funny that you just did.
> Another white terrorist, another white terrorist!!! Who are we banning?!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


We shall see if he is an Antifa Leftist or an Austin Hawaiian Shirt Texan of the highest order ...


----------



## rice paddy daddy

The now-dead perp was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. That alone is a bar against gun ownership.
But, you watch - stinkin' liberals will call for "common sense gun laws", which is a decoy from their true agenda.


----------



## Steve40th

Unless he had his DD changed to an RE3, which does happen. How do you get a DD from the Air Force?


----------



## Steve40th




----------



## Chiefster23

I do not attend church. That said, I know several people that routinely attend services armed. In most cases the pastor knows and approves. I know one pistol instructor who has been approached about conducting classes specifically to train parishioners in order to provide some level of armed security during church functions. A sad commentary on the state of our society today.

The television talking heads are all going on about how these shootings can be prevented. I keep hearing “see something, say something”. That’s all fine, but I don’t think many of these killings can be prevented. Some people are just plain evil, and unpredictable. The left bitches about guns. But we just saw that when guns are not available sickos resort to trucks, or cars, or knives, or whatever. Our society is sick.


----------



## Denton

Steve40th said:


>


Sorry, but this came to my mind...


----------



## preppermyA

Some states ban carry in churches. (GA comes to mind) Some don't. (VA comes to mind)
I carry everywhere, including church.

It's really sad that I have to even consider I might need to protect myself in church.


----------



## Steve40th

The media needs to focus on facts only. And not to forget Hillary and her gang are still part of story time tomorrow.


----------



## 7515

preppermyA said:


> Some states ban carry in churches. (GA comes to mind) Some don't. (VA comes to mind)
> I carry everywhere, including church.


Georgia most definitely does not ban carrying at Church.


----------



## Robie

> The media needs to focus on facts only


Don't be ridiculous.....:vs_laugh::vs_lol:


----------



## Kauboy

As a Texan, and an LTC carrier, I can tell you that places of worship in Texas are NOT prohibited from carry.
The only way that a church can restrict is to post proper signage at the entrances or pass out a document with the appropriate wording.
If these are not done, carry is legal, open or concealed.


----------



## A Watchman

Steve40th said:


>


Attaboy Johnny!


----------



## Gator Monroe

I carry at Temple in Ca.


----------



## Denton

Gator Monroe said:


> I carry at Temple in Ca.


Good for you!
I carry wherever I go. I even have custom made holster for dress-up occasions.


----------



## Gator Monroe

Denton said:


> Good for you!
> I carry wherever I go. I even have custom made holster for dress-up occasions.


I carry while Boating , Bicycling , In Gun Shows ,while Motorbiking , ...


----------



## Denton

Gator Monroe said:


> I carry while Boating , Bicycling , In Gun Shows ,while Motorbiking , ...


I carry when diving. Top that!


----------



## Gator Monroe

You go in the water ? sharks in the water ! Farewell and adieu to ye fair Spanish ladies , farewell and adieu to ye ladies of Spain ...


----------



## The Tourist

I carry everywhere. And this is the reason why. You might think you're at the most danger in a mall or a bike shop, and never guess that a house of worship would be a target.

This is another demonstration of hypocrisy. If some ******* shot up a mosque we'd all be branded racists.


----------



## Prepared One

How sad, My thoughts are with the fallen and their families. The left will immediately blame the guns of course. That is their MO and we should expect nothing less from them. They will little note that a bad guy with a gun was stopped dead in his tracks by a good guy with a gun. It doesn't fit their narrative. However, guns are not the problem as we all know. There is a deeper and more insidious force at work here and taking the guns away won't stop the carnage or fix the problem.


----------



## Annie

Wow, I missed all this yesterday. I was sick in bed with a virus. How awful. Do they know why the shooter did it?

May the souls of the faithful departed through the mercy of God rest in peace.


----------



## Robie

Annie said:


> Wow, I missed all this yesterday. I was sick in bed with a virus. How awful. Do they know why the shooter did it?
> 
> May the souls of the faithful departed through the mercy of God rest in peace.


Not yet but I think it's going to all boil down to....life and the military was unfair and he wanted some payback.

That translates into....he was a loser. Plain and simple.


----------



## dwight55

Annie said:


> Wow, I missed all this yesterday. I was sick in bed with a virus. How awful. Do they know why the shooter did it?
> 
> May the souls of the faithful departed through the mercy of God rest in peace.


I have to agree with you on both points, Annie, . . . went to the Creation museum and the Ark thursday & friday, . . . got the shivers, shakes, was in bed or sleeping all weekend.

The one thing good about the shooting, . . . it was a church, . . . which hopefully translates into more of the folks ready to meet the Lord than if it had been Walmart or Costco.

Hope you are feeling better, . . .

I think Robie nailed it, . . . just another loser, . . . didn't like bunnies, ice cream, or anything else, . . . thankfully in Texas, . . . folks came to the shooting to stop it.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Smitty901

dwight55 said:


> I have to agree with you on both points, Annie, . . . went to the Creation museum and the Ark thursday & friday, . . . got the shivers, shakes, was in bed or sleeping all weekend.
> 
> The one thing good about the shooting, . . . it was a church, . . . which hopefully translates into more of the folks ready to meet the Lord than if it had been Walmart or Costco.
> 
> Hope you are feeling better, . . .
> 
> I think Robie nailed it, . . . just another loser, . . . didn't like bunnies, ice cream, or anything else, . . . thankfully in Texas, . . . folks came to the shooting to stop it.
> 
> May God bless,
> Dwight


 I hope you enjoyed the ARK encounter as much as we did. Made a motorcycle trip there last May .


----------



## jerry49

Las vegas , antifa nov4 , and now church shooting ........does this smell fishy ? Why do the feds pull his face book down ? I dont go anywhere without carrying, not sure if there is any safe places anymore.


----------



## Medic33

this is why I call theses extremist terrorist pukes-COWARDS!! and churches like schools should take note -put armed security officers (not guards, officers there is a difference) in place to prevent crap like this and allow concealed carry(or open) in their establishments to people who meet the criteria for lawful carry.


----------



## Michael_Js

RIP...sad little coward....

I don't know what WA laws are for churches, or my church for that matter, but I always think churches make great targets so Always carry there - and everywhere else. It's a sad world when you feel you have to carry in a place of worship...

peace,
Michael J.


----------



## Gator Monroe

He was an Atheist , had beef with Ex Wife's Family (Who attended the Church ) whom he beat up (Wife & Child ) causing his ejection from Air force ... Will we learn if his upbringing & Schooling turned him into a G-dless Morally lacking Progressive ? Hope it all comes out (Unlike the Paddock mysteries )


----------



## Mish

jerry49 said:


> Las vegas , antifa nov4 , and now church shooting ........does this smell fishy ? Why do the feds pull his face book down ? I dont go anywhere without carrying, not sure if there is any safe places anymore.


What's your conspiracy theory?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Denton

Gator Monroe said:


> You go in the water ? sharks in the water ! Farewell and adieu to ye fair Spanish ladies , farewell and adieu to ye ladies of Spain ...


It's a three ring kiddie pool. There's a shark, but it's plastic. :vs_laugh:


----------



## Gator Monroe

Mish said:


> What's your conspiracy theory?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


G-dless Morally corrupt people who were raised by a Village of progressives including Liberal Socialist Teachers & Profs from Pre School to Post Grad School , and coddled by elitist Far Left & Left leaning Parents and brainwarshed by fearmongering Media and Gaming that would ruin any ones reality compass ...


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

In Missouri to be legally CC in a church you have to have the permission of " the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship."

If you care about staying legal, this would probably be a really good week to ask for permission.


----------



## Mish

Gator Monroe said:


> G-dless Morally corrupt people who were raised by a Village of progressives including Liberal Socialist Teachers & Profs from Pre School to Post Grad School , and coddled by elitist Far Left & Left leaning Parents and brainwarshed by fearmongering Media and Gaming that would ruin any ones reality compass ...


 Is that why they deleted his Facebook?! 
Got it. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Gator Monroe said:


> G-dless Morally corrupt people who were raised by a Village of progressives including Liberal Socialist Teachers & Profs from Pre School to Post Grad School , and coddled by elitist Far Left & Left leaning Parents and brainwarshed by fearmongering Media and Gaming that would ruin any ones reality compass ...


Holy cow that's a tongue twister... try saying that 5 times fast!


----------



## Mish

So how do we stop or try to lessen these events from happening?

We all agree that banning guns is just silly. What other options are on the table? Or do we continue to say... damn, that's horrible and turn the channel?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Gator Monroe

See or hear a Liberal Say something indicating Violence , call them on it right there face to face or Report them ("See something say something" )


----------



## Gator Monroe

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Holy cow that's a tongue twister... try saying that 5 times fast!


But but you could have made a comment on the posts contents potential traction ...


----------



## Denton

Mish said:


> So how do we stop or try to lessen these events from happening?
> 
> We all agree that banning guns is just silly. What other options are on the table? Or do we continue to say... damn, that's horrible and turn the channel?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Hasn't this been the question since Cain killed Abel?

Sometimes it is about pure evil, sometimes it is about mental instability, but it's always something not controllable.


----------



## Smitty901

Mish said:


> So how do we stop or try to lessen these events from happening?
> 
> We all agree that banning guns is just silly. What other options are on the table? Or do we continue to say... damn, that's horrible and turn the channel?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


 This guy beat his wife and kid. Bet it was not all never is. he was never properly dealt with. It was not legal for him to have a weapon , bet people knew he had it. As seems always the case this trash was long time problem child.


----------



## RedLion

A couple real life steps are....#1 get rid of gun free zones otherwise known as killing zones. #2 actually allow all Americans to own and bear arms as intended by the 2nd amend without state or local interference such in NY, CA, MD, etc.....
More importantly and noted already is to get rid of the "victim culture" that has been bread into younger folks and actually begin to re-build "resiliency" that enables a person to deal with tough times without freaking out. The "me first" mentality needs to go as well.
Changes I mentioned above would make a huge difference.
And yes progressive are to blame for our ruined youth.


----------



## Kauboy

Mish said:


> So how do we stop or try to lessen these events from happening?
> 
> We all agree that banning guns is just silly. What other options are on the table? Or do we continue to say... damn, that's horrible and turn the channel?


A first step I'd like to see is a removal of "he did this because of the environment he was raised in", or "he suffered something as a child that eventually lead to this" as any kind of justification for senseless killing.
I've heard enough from the "blame his upbringing" crowd, and want it to end. He did this because he CHOSE to do this. Creating "reasons" for his behavior only serves to encourage others to do stupid things with the thinking that they also can't control how they were raised, and that makes it ok to act out violently.
People need to be held accountable for their actions. Not the actions of their parents/teachers/friends.

If you pull the trigger on an innocent person, the ONLY reason you did so was because YOU CHOSE TO DO IT. No other reason needs to be applied.
The violent act, and punishment to follow, should not be filtered through a lens of "he isn't fully responsible for his actions". That's BS, and should be stopped.

We need to start reinforcing the fact that people must take responsibility for their own actions.


----------



## Gator Monroe

Kauboy said:


> A first step I'd like to see is a removal of "he did this because of the environment he was raised in", or "he suffered something as a child that eventually lead to this" as any kind of justification for senseless killing.
> I've heard enough from the "blame his upbringing" crowd, and want it to end. He did this because he CHOSE to do this. Creating "reasons" for his behavior only serves to encourage others to do stupid things with the thinking that they also can't control how they were raised, and that makes it ok to act out violently.
> People need to be held accountable for their actions. Not the actions of their parents/teachers/friends.
> 
> If you pull the trigger on an innocent person, the ONLY reason you did so was because YOU CHOSE TO DO IT. No other reason needs to be applied.
> The violent act, and punishment to follow, should not be filtered through a lens of "he isn't fully responsible for his actions". That's BS, and should be stopped.
> 
> We need to start reinforcing the fact that people must take responsibility for their own actions.


If you pull trigger for Islam or for hatred of Fascists & Far Right Kluxers & Neo Nazis or for Nationalist White Supremacist views or to promote Anarchy or Socialism/Communism or to bring Ecological issues to light or for LGBT rights ... it has a lot to do with your Upbringing & Schooling .


----------



## A Watchman

Gator Monroe said:


> He was an Atheist , had beef with Ex Wife's Family (Who attended the Church ) whom he beat up (Wife & Child ) causing his ejection from Air force ... Will we learn if his upbringing & Schooling turned him into a G-dless Morally lacking Progressive ? Hope it all comes out (Unlike the Paddock mysteries )


I strongly suspect that he is not an atheist any more.


----------



## A Watchman

Mish said:


> We all agree that banning guns is just silly. What other options are on the table? Or do we continue to say... damn, that's horrible and turn the channel?


Of course not Mishy, we only turn the channel for the major causes of death amongst our citizens.


----------



## SGG

A Watchman said:


> Of course not Mishy, we only turn the channel for the major causes of death amongst our citizens.
> 
> View attachment 59633


Sick burn


----------



## AquaHull

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> In Missouri to be legally CC in a church you have to have the permission of " the minister or person or persons representing the religious organization that exercises control over the place of religious worship."
> 
> If you care about staying legal, this would probably be a really good week to ask for permission.


You need to be blessed by the person of authority in Michigan, usually the pastor/priest.
The Catholic Church Mom used to go to wasn't so fond of guns in church.
I inquired and got a weird look and no response.
Mom fell off the porch the next day and hasn't been back.


----------



## jerry49

Mish said:


> What's your conspiracy theory?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


I dont really have a real theory except i find it hard to believe some body would just snap and shoot up a church it looked like a planned attack same with vegas concert shooting , both shootings targeting basically same group of people , white conservative possibly christen possibly trump supporters ? Thats what it looks like to me and we talking back to back mass shooting


----------



## Mish

A Watchman said:


> Of course not Mishy, we only turn the channel for the major causes of death amongst our citizens.
> 
> View attachment 59633


And who is turning their back on that list?
If you are trying to throw abortion in my face, well, they actually became harder to get in the last year, So people are working hard to change that number.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Gator Monroe said:


> But but you could have made a comment on the posts contents potential traction ...


Nah, nobody here gives a damn about my point of view anyway, I'm the guy who buys a newspaper just to read the sports page and the comics...


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

A Watchman said:


> I strongly suspect that he is not an atheist any more.


He sure better HOPE he was right... else... well... yeah... things didn't work out so well...


----------



## Gator Monroe

I strongly suspect he was adamant anti Trumper with Socialist Leanings who spewed enough social postings on Internet to warrant a visit from Animal protective services , Child protective services , Elder abuse investigation , felon Firearm sweep after CWP denial ...


----------



## A Watchman

Mish said:


> And who is turning their back on that list?
> If you are trying to throw abortion in my face, well, they actually became harder to get in the last year, So people are working hard to change that number.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


:vs_wave:


----------



## A Watchman

Mish said:


> And who is turning their back on that list?
> If you are trying to throw abortion in my face, well, they actually became harder to get in the last year, So people are working hard to change that number.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk





A Watchman said:


> :vs_wave:


And further more Mishy ....... ok, since I am already in the dog house and will be licking your toes later as punishment...... I'm a gonna make it worth it!

No, I actually wasn't referring to any particular cause of death or incident on the list. I also cant validate the statistics, but I suspect the pecking order is likely. What I do take note of is that the least costly incident in terms of loss of life is the only one being targeted as important enough to justify a major overhaul in the intent of our US Constitution. Me smells an alternative agenda with this only a stepping stone.

OK, I am ready and at your command now .......


----------



## Sasquatch

@A Watchman apparently you've never seen @Mish 's toes.









Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Mish

A Watchman said:


> And further more Mishy ....... ok, since I am already in the dog house and will be licking your toes later as punishment...... I'm a gonna make it worth it!
> 
> No, I actually wasn't referring to any particular cause of death or incident on the list. I also cant validate the statistics, but I suspect the pecking order is likely. What I do take note of is that the least costly incident in terms of loss of life is the only one being targeted as important enough to justify a major overhaul in the intent of our US Constitution. Me smells an alternative agenda with this only a stepping stone.
> 
> OK, I am ready and at your command now .......


 Lol You expect me to let you sleep in the doghouse? I'm just going to chain you up in the middle of the yard!!

I personally have no interest in the banning of any guns but i do wonder sometimes if there is a better way to make sure guys, like this guy, can't legally get them. Hell, he fractured a young child's head and somehow was able to work as security at a waterpark (around kids). I just see so many holes and would like to see how to close them.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Kauboy

Sasquatch said:


> @A Watchman apparently you've never see @Mish 's toes.


----------



## 7515

So......
Just how long before the shooters next of kin lawyer up and bring charges against the armed citizen and driver who chased after the fleeing perpetrator. 

Let’s see it would go something like they violated his rights by chasing him at 95 mph making him loose control and crash
or something like that.


----------



## Salt-N-Pepper

Sasquatch said:


> @A Watchman apparently you've never see @Mish 's toes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Wow, Mish, your condition is really improving, that looks so much better than a couple of months ago...


----------



## Mish

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Wow, Mish, your condition is really improving, that looks so much better than a couple of months ago...


I blame my shoes for my feet problems.









Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Smitty901

So much for back round check. They let this jackxxx buy the weapon he slipped through all back round checks. I hope they hunt down the person that failed to make the notify cation about his crimes. When they do I hope they hang them


----------



## Mish

They didn't report him to the fbi. 
Someone's in trouble. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Urinal Cake

Sasquatch said:


> @A Watchman apparently you've never seen @Mish 's toes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve40th

Air Force FAILED to enter his charges in the Federal Database. Air Force is running this to ground.


----------



## Urinal Cake

Steve40th said:


> Air Force FAILED to enter his charges in the Federal Database. Air Force is running this to ground.


Shooter also lied on the 4473 form failing to acknowledge a domestic violence charge was on his record.


----------



## Steve40th

Urinal Cake said:


> Shooter also lied on the 4473 form failing to acknowledge a domestic violence charge was on his record.


So, maybe fingerprints would be the best way to do this thing then. 
Very sad. Why didnt he just buy illegally, from Obama and his team.


----------



## 8301

Denton said:


> I carry when diving. Top that!


Got me beat,,,, but gotta know,,, what do you carry when diving? @Denton


----------



## 8301

A thought... gun control comes and goes and the last few weeks we've seen some bad things done by sick people with ARs. I'll pray for the people they hurt.

Don't be surprised if the pendulum swings the other way and ARs or high cap magazines are someday banned once again.
Personally I'm not against reasonable background checks but for law abiding citizens we do have the right to carry in church and own reasonable guns. The definition of reasonable varies but I do carry deeply concealed in church, the mall, ect.


----------



## Slippy

Mish said:


> So how do we stop or try to lessen these events from happening?
> 
> We all agree that banning guns is just silly. What other options are on the table? Or do we continue to say... damn, that's horrible and turn the channel?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Mishie,

Evil exists in this world and because of that, tragedy will occur. My hope is that when tragedy occurs, there are more good guys with guns than evil ones.


----------



## White Shadow

Steve40th said:


> Air Force FAILED to enter his charges in the Federal Database. Air Force is running this to ground.


Yep. I imagine the hunt for a suitable scapegoat is well under way in the AF.


----------



## Mish

Slippy said:


> Mishie,
> 
> Evil exists in this world and because of that, tragedy will occur. My hope is that when tragedy occurs, there are more good guys with guns than evil ones.


I'm not ready to accept that, as the only option.


----------



## Gator Monroe

Denton said:


> It's a three ring kiddie pool. There's a shark, but it's plastic. :vs_laugh:


Three Ring Kiddie Pool (Off the coast of Catalina Island ) :vs_worry:


----------



## Robie

Mish said:


> I'm not ready to accept that, as the only option.


History wasn't your favorite subject I take it?


----------



## Mish

Robie said:


> History wasn't your favorite subject I take it?


History you say? Please educate me.


----------



## Robie

Mish said:


> History you say? Please educate me.


Mankind has been at each other's throats (killing each other) since the beginning of time.

James Taylor singing to Parisians ain't gonna change things.


----------



## Denton

John Galt said:


> Got me beat,,,, but gotta know,,, what do you carry when diving? @Denton


A spear gun, of course!


----------



## Mish

Robie said:


> Mankind has been at each other's throats (killing each other) since the beginning of time.
> 
> James Taylor singing to Parisians ain't gonna change things.


So, we should stop fighting back?


----------



## 8301

Figured but was hoping to hear about your underwater gun with a condom over the barrel to keep the seawater out. @Denton


----------



## Robie

Mish said:


> So, we should stop fighting back?


Dunno...you are the one that said you hoped it wasn't the only option.


----------



## Gator Monroe

John Galt said:


> Figured but was hoping to hear about your underwater gun with a condom over the barrel to keep the seawater out.
> @Denton


Glock H20


----------



## NotTooProudToHide

No doubt, the system failed big time. Had his offenses been entered into NICS then he legally wouldn't have been allowed to purchase firearms, thats not to say that he couldn't have bought one from a private party or stolen one, but he wouldn't have been able to stroll into a gun store and pick one out.

Even at that, he was after family members. I believe even if he didn't have a gun he would have found another way of killing people such as driving his truck into the church or waiting to run down people as they exited. This is an example of an evil dude, plain and simple. What kind of man purposefully fractures an infants skull?


----------



## Inor

The murderer was killed by 3 bullets, none of which were fired by police. This is the textbook example of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun. How many lives did the good guy save? Who knows, but the odds favor far more than 1. If more good guys had guns in the church, how many more lives could have been saved?


----------



## Prepared One

There is evil in the world, always has been and always will be. Making more law and taking more rights from the people will not change that fact. Apparently, as well, we can't enforce the laws we already have. The answer to these evil men does not lie in taking away my right to defend myself and family against such evil men. 

The liberal socialist's always predictable jump to more gun law has nothing to do with the evil that men do, but rather, has everything to do with advancing their agenda.


----------



## Annie

NotTooProudToHide said:


> This is an example of an evil dude, plain and simple. What kind of man purposefully fractures an infants skull?


For sure, he was sicko.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

He should be strung up and hung by his balls. jmo


----------



## Prepared One

1skrewsloose said:


> He should be strung up and hung by his balls. jmo


We can hope, if there is a hell, that he has taken his place in a very special kind of hell, reserved only for extraordinarily evil and wicked men.


----------



## The Tourist

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Nah, nobody here gives a damn about my point of view anyway, I'm the guy who buys a newspaper just to read the sports page and the comics...


Well, I care.

Your stance and mine are almost identical. I get up around 2:00AM, do laundry, sharpen something, and make a sandwich. During this "house husband" routine I see headlights in the driveway which means the newspaper lady made a delivery.

Since I'm a Packer fan (or _was_), I just skipped the sports section, skimmed the headlines and read the comics. Here's what I took away from recent events.

The leftists don't like mass shootings, but they won't let us shoot back. They don't like restrictive immigration, but won't vet the people they let in. They give no "sanctuary" to the innocent citizens among us, yet devote entire cities for the safety of multiple violent foreign felons.

They tell us we should 'discuss' race. To them, discuss means to fall on your sword and agree to anything. If a cop sees a beat up crate with broken suspension springs and a bunch of geniuses "riding four" with blue rags on their belts, his observation is "profiling and racist." Then if somebody gets killed some moron in the cheap seats will ask "Where were the police?"

In Madison the city council voted 400,000 dollars to study the police. Here's a shock, so sit down in case you faint. The Madsion cops don't commit crimes, the criminals do...

So I support your view. What specifically am I to do, besides carry another magazine and sit with my back to the wall?


----------



## Mad Trapper

1skrewsloose said:


> He should be strung up and hung by his balls. jmo


He and his kind should be put up roadside on a pike, even if they are not dead yet (Job for Slippy?). NOT eulogized by the media as to how their upbringing made them deviants.


----------



## Gator Monroe

Mad Trapper said:


> He and his kind should be put up roadside on a pike, even if they are not dead yet (Job for Slippy?). NOT eulogized by the media as to how their upbringing made them deviants.


But but Pedos & Nutjobs are a Democrat Voting Bloc and thus deserving of "Special Rights" & "Protections" ?


----------



## MountainGirl

Kauboy said:


> A first step I'd like to see is a removal of "he did this because of the environment he was raised in", or "he suffered something as a child that eventually lead to this" as any kind of justification for senseless killing.
> I've heard enough from the "blame his upbringing" crowd, and want it to end. He did this because he CHOSE to do this. Creating "reasons" for his behavior only serves to encourage others to do stupid things with the thinking that they also can't control how they were raised, and that makes it ok to act out violently.
> People need to be held accountable for their actions. Not the actions of their parents/teachers/friends.
> 
> If you pull the trigger on an innocent person, the ONLY reason you did so was because YOU CHOSE TO DO IT. No other reason needs to be applied.
> The violent act, and punishment to follow, should not be filtered through a lens of "he isn't fully responsible for his actions". That's BS, and should be stopped.
> 
> We need to start reinforcing the fact that people must take responsibility for their own actions.


I agree totally, Kauboy. AND - parents need to take responsibility for how they raised their kids, just as _their_ parents need to take responsibility. This goes back a few generations, and by that I mean the people in their 20s in the 80s...who are now the grandparents of today's teenagers & 20-somethings. Recall 40 years ago when TV became the great babysitter? Still is, for some. Or 20 years ago when it was video games? Still is, for even more. Now it's phones/social media that has the hearts and minds of most the population...and we all know the 'content' of what's out there. I doubt any 3yr old, _ever_, CHOSE to have a 'kids first phone!' put in their hand; parents are making wrong choices all over the place, imo. So yes, the responsibility is on each person, now as an adult to CHOSE what they do. But it's the people themselves who don't have the tools make a choice...outside of what they were taught (rather, NOT taught) about life.

I was listening to regional radio this morning; in Spokane a 24yo was arrested 1st degree felony assault on a 2yr old girl. He was babysitting the daughter of his girlfriend (who was at work). The child is in the hospital in critical condition, bruises & cracked skull. The guy confessed to doing it, said he was playing X-Box and she walked in front of it and he just flipped out.

I blame him. I also blame his parents and his grandparents - all of whom started this chain of living life through a reality other than the one God gave us.


----------



## Smitty901

We have spent Millions on millions funding the back round check system. On top of that every back round check we as purchasers pay $10 for a simple phone call. The system was suppose to be the answer to prohibited people from buying firearms. They let us down when we found out those trying to beat the system were never prosecuted now we find out again they don't even have a good line on those that should be on the list. 
Seems to me this was done to allow those like him to commit crimes and foster their anti-gun agenda.


----------



## Mish

Do we have any kind of record on how many times someone was denied a gun? How many times the system worked?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Smitty901

Mish said:


> Do we have any kind of record on how many times someone was denied a gun? How many times the system worked?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


 They did but it was proving they did not do anything to those that tried to beat the system so they quit bragging about the number


----------



## Robie

Just a quick search...



> Federal and state programs differ, which makes it difficult to discern the total number of background checks performed and denied. The most recent estimates by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) were released in 2014 and cover the period March 1, 1994 to Dec. 31, 2012. The BJS estimated 2.4 million checks were denied out of 148 million performed during that time, or 1.6%.
> 
> According the FBI's most recent numbers, the federal NICS system issued approximately 1.3 million denials between Nov. 30, 1998, and Dec. 31, 2015. Criminal convictions represent the largest portion of denials


.

Five Questions About Gun Background Checks - WSJ.com


----------



## Robie

.....


----------



## Sasquatch

Mish said:


> Lol You expect me to let you sleep in the doghouse? I'm just going to chain you up in the middle of the yard!!
> 
> I personally have no interest in the banning of any guns but i do wonder sometimes if there is a better way to make sure guys, like this guy, can't legally get them. Hell, he fractured a young child's head and somehow was able to work as security at a waterpark (around kids). I just see so many holes and would like to see how to close them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


That's the thing, it's not more laws or banning guns. The problem is people. Either lazy or stupid or both.

Whoever let him work around kids didn't do their job in checking his background. Just like the Air Force didn't do their job by informing the DOJ of his discharge.

You can't regulate laziness or stupidity. But you sure can hold people accountable for it and THAT is the only thing to keep more of these acts from happening.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Robie

I have a friend who's grandson shook his infant daughter. I really don't know if the child suffered brain damage (touchy subject I avoid with him) but I do know the guy spent 3 years in prison and just got out a few months ago.

This chap should have been in prison.

I say...build more prisons instead of using the excuse the prisons are too full.

I'd rather see my tax dollars go to building prisons than having to hear about all the violent felons being set free after a few weeks and committing more crime.


----------



## Mish

Sasquatch said:


> That's the thing, it's not more laws or banning guns. The problem is people. Either lazy or stupid or both.
> 
> Whoever let him work around kids didn't do their job in checking his background. Just like the Air Force didn't do their job by informing the DOJ of his discharge.
> 
> You can't regulate laziness or stupidity. But you sure can hold people accountable for it and THAT is the only thing to keep more of these acts from happening.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I can't stick up for the system that failed us in this situation. Bad mistakes were made. Hopefully, we will learn from them and figure out how it failed.

1.6% is a number i like. That means most of the people that wanted a gun... got one!! I can't feel bad for someone that has assaulted someone and can't get a gun.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Robie

This is another case where following existing laws would have maybe made a difference.

In this instance, we'll never know.

One thing that is glaringly apparent is that...the government is the one responsible for not following laws they create. In this case it was a military government employee.

It again proves...our government is completely inept at doing anything positive efficiently.


----------



## Robie

...and some want them to take over health care. 

It boggles the mind.


----------



## MisterMills357

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> *Nah, nobody here gives a damn about my point of view anyway, I'm the guy who buys a newspaper just to read the sports page and the comics..*.


Don't be depressed, nobody cares about my opinion either. No, Usually they are trying to take some skin off of my butt. But I keep plugging along, just to spite them.:vs_rocking_banana:


----------



## Mish

MisterMills357 said:


> Don't be depressed, nobody cares about my opinion either. No, Usually they are trying to take some skin off of my butt. But I keep plugging along, just to spite them.:vs_rocking_banana:


 Well, I'm glad to hear you guys both realise nobody cares. Hehe

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Denton

After every shooting that gains national attention, everyone wants to know what can be done to prevent another such incident. The focus is always on the firearm and is never on society, itself.

Rather than focusing on the weapon of choice, why not look at it from the angle of society, itself. What has changed in my lifetime that has brought us to where we are, now? I was born in 1963, by the way.


----------



## Robie

Denton said:


> After every shooting that gains national attention, everyone wants to know what can be done to prevent another such incident. The focus is always on the firearm and is never on society, itself.
> 
> Rather than focusing on the weapon of choice, why not look at it from the angle of society, itself. What has changed in my lifetime that has brought us to where we are, now? I was born in 1963, by the way.


1955....and to answer....plenty has changed.

I could write a book.


----------



## Gator Monroe

1959 here ( When the Beatles were flown over the first time by Murrey the K that was first nail in coffin for America ) ( The summer of love / Kent State ) were the next nails ( then the guy who shot front runner Wallace in 72 Dem POTUS primaries was another )


----------



## Denton

Robie said:


> 1955....and to answer....plenty has changed.
> 
> I could write a book.


There are books written. One book comes to mind, as a matter of fact. That book was once studied in schools across America. Now, it is abandoned and favor is given to notions that are guaranteed to destroy society and, as a result, the nation. What we are seeing isn't a surprise; it is an expectation.


----------



## Denton

Gator Monroe said:


> 1959 here ( When the Beatles were flown over the first time by Murrey the K that was first nail in coffin for America ) ( The summer of love / Kent State ) were the next nails ( then the guy who shot front runner Wallace in 72 Dem POTUS primaries was another )


Don't forget when the entire nation witnessed the murder of a president.


----------



## Denton

Remember when movies had to pass morality test? That changed and in 1968 with Rosemary's Baby, and the national mindset was being molded to see the world in a different way.


----------



## Robie

A few of our "elected officials" use Alinski and Cloward & Piven as a rule book on how to change our nation.

They have been very successful thus far.

Then...Trump entered the room.

I just hope there is someone to take his place after his second term is up.


----------



## Mish

I'm going to vote for the 1930s and early 40s.

That's when war officially became a business. We've been full steam ahead since then.
It also started the broken family. Family life never recovered. So many kids growing up without a father or a mother. Husbands/fathers/sons coming home after seeing things unimaginable and not having the help to deal with it. And... Lets not forget, women wth to work and that left kids to raise themselves. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Mad Trapper

Mish said:


> I'm going to vote for the 1930s and early 40s.
> 
> That's when war officially became a business. We've been full steam ahead since then.
> It also started the broken family. Family life never recovered. So many kids growing up without a father or a mother. Husbands/fathers/sons coming home after seeing things unimaginable and not having the help to deal with it. And... Lets not forget, women wth to work and that left kids to raise themselves.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


That would be the war of the States


----------



## Denton

Mish said:


> I'm going to vote for the 1930s and early 40s.
> 
> That's when war officially became a business. We've been full steam ahead since then.
> It also started the broken family. Family life never recovered. So many kids growing up without a father or a mother. Husbands/fathers/sons coming home after seeing things unimaginable and not having the help to deal with it. And... Lets not forget, women wth to work and that left kids to raise themselves.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


The world is not unaccustomed to war, but you are on a good direction. War isn't what destroyed the family unit, though. At least not armed conflict. I suppose you could say the culture war.


----------



## Smitty901

The guy was an atheist, he shot up the church. But fed's already saying it had nothing to do with religion . We will never get the truth just like Vegas. They guy was a nut case Air Forced dropped the ball they gave him a little slap and put him on the streets.
They did not want to deal with him. This happens often with bad eggs in the military.


----------



## Mish

Smitty901 said:


> The guy was an atheist, he shot up the church. But fed's already saying it had nothing to do with religion . We will never get the truth just like Vegas. They guy was a nut case Air Forced dropped the ball they gave him a little slap and put him on the streets.
> They did not want to deal with him. This happens often with bad eggs in the military.


What makes you believe we aren't getting the truth so far?
Why don't you believe the violence towards his ex - wife and family?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Mad Trapper

Mish said:


> What makes you believe we aren't getting the truth so far?
> Why don't you believe the violence towards his ex - wife and family?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Why so quiet about the armed citizen shooting him 3 times with a legally owned AR15?

Why reports that LE shot him or he offed himself?

It just don't fit the MSM gun "control" utopia.

I think the truth will be that he bled out and crashed, after running away when confronted and shot.

Where is the ballistics from the Las Vegas shooting? Think all those rounds came from one man?.............Let's see all the bullets match up with what was in the hotel room!


----------



## Smitty901

Mish said:


> What makes you believe we aren't getting the truth so far?
> Why don't you believe the violence towards his ex - wife and family?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


 I 100% believe the violence. He should have been locked up for years. The Air force slapped him on the hand then cut him loose . Conveniently not notifying the proper people they were putting a dangerous nut case back on the street. This happen often in all LE agencies


----------



## Mad Trapper

Certified violent nut case *and* the: Air Force, FBI, *AND* NCIS knew about it *2012*

BREAKING: Sutherland Springs Murderer Escaped From Mental Health Facility in 2012, FBI Was Informed - The Truth About Guns

Who dropped the ball on this one? Lots of blame to go around.


----------



## Medic33

Mish said:


> So how do we stop or try to lessen these events from happening?
> 
> We all agree that banning guns is just silly. What other options are on the table? Or do we continue to say... damn,  that's horrible and turn the channel?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


you make the establishment that bans CC guns or any carry financially, and morally responsible for situations like this - OR make it law that every law abiding citizen who so chooses can carry openly anywhere.


----------



## Medic33

White Shadow said:


> Yep. I imagine the hunt for a suitable scapegoat is well under way in the AF.


the scapegoat is his freaking commander!!!!!!!!! the highest ranking individual who's command he was under in his unit-that's who.
no, I have said it before these are the idiots that Fu#^ it up for everyone else every time.


----------



## White Shadow

Medic33 said:


> the scapegoat is his freaking commander!!!!!!!!! the highest ranking individual who's command he was under in his unit-that's who.
> no, I have said it before these are the idiots that Fu#^ it up for everyone else every time.


That sounds like the responsible party, not the scapegoat.


----------



## Gator Monroe

But but there are still 2A/RTKBA purists who think tubby perp deserved his 2A/RTKBA rights (regardless of lies on 4473 forms )


----------



## OSC

Smitty901 said:


> I 100% believe the violence. He should have been locked up for years. The Air force slapped him on the hand then cut him loose . Conveniently not notifying the proper people they were putting a dangerous nut case back on the street. This happen often in all LE agencies


I'm stunned at who we release.

One guy shaved his wife's head. When the police arrived, the electric clippers were stuck in her hair. Posted bail after 48 hours and 24 hour EPO. Noteworthy that the wife was the one who bailed him out. :vs_shocked:


----------



## Gator Monroe

OSC said:


> I'm stunned at who we release.
> 
> One guy shaved his wife's head. When the police arrived, the electric clippers were stuck in her hair. Posted bail after 48 hours and 24 hour EPO. Noteworthy that the wife was the one who bailed him out. :vs_shocked:


With the bleeding heart Liberal Progressive Activist Judges ,LACK OF MENTAL FACILITIES & FUNDING , Prison & Jail overcrowding , and pro Criminal Lawyers on a rampage there are perhaps 25 million people on the Streets who even most 2A/RTKBA purist types would hesitate at giving blanket 2A/RTKBA ...


----------



## OSC

Gator Monroe said:


> With the bleeding heart Liberal Progressive Activist Judges ,LACK OF MENTAL FACILITIES & FUNDING , Prison & Jail overcrowding , and pro Criminal Lawyers on a rampage there are perhaps 25 million people on the Streets who even most 2A/RTKBA purist types would hesitate at giving blanket 2A/RTKBA ...


2/3 of the governors are Republicans. I believe 32 states have Rep majorities in both houses of their legislatures&#8230;

Blaming liberals is your right. I question it's accuracy.


----------



## White Shadow

OSC said:


> I'm stunned at who we release.
> 
> One guy shaved his wife's head. When the police arrived, the electric clippers were stuck in her hair. Posted bail after 48 hours and 24 hour EPO. Noteworthy that the wife was the one who bailed him out. :vs_shocked:


Hmmm, my wife just recently more than doubled the amount of life insurance she has on me and has been acting more flaky than usual.


----------



## Gator Monroe

OSC said:


> 2/3 of the governors are Republicans. I believe 32 states have Rep majorities in both houses of their legislatures&#8230;
> 
> Blaming liberals is your right. I question it's accuracy.


GOP controls ( California / New York / New Jersey / Maryland / Illinois / Michigan /Oregon /Washington State ... ? (Most Populous States )


----------



## Smitty901

OSC said:


> 2/3 of the governors are Republicans. I believe 32 states have Rep majorities in both houses of their legislatures&#8230;
> 
> Blaming liberals is your right. I question it's accuracy.


 Judges and DA that let them out, often never even charge them. Mayor and COP in Milwaukee say no Black should be arrested.


----------



## White Shadow

Gator Monroe said:


> GOP controls ( California / New York / New Jersey / Maryland / Illinois / Michigan /Oregon /Washington State ... ? (Most Populous States )


Whoa there.

We have a GOP governor in IL, but the state is very firmly in the hands of the Demonrats. They have a pretty good track record of having enough votes to override his vetoes. Beyond official control of both the House and the Senate, they have a number of Demonrats who ran as RINOs in the NE part of the state and consistently vote as such. The only thing holding them back on their favorite topic of gun control/confiscation is the downstate members of their own party tend to vote against that cutting them short of override numbers. Everything else they just ram on through.


----------



## White Shadow

Gator Monroe said:


> GOP controls ( California / New York / New Jersey / Maryland / Illinois / Michigan /Oregon /Washington State ... ? (Most Populous States )


Oh, poop. Did I just misread your statement? If so, apologies.


----------



## Gator Monroe

White Shadow said:


> Whoa there.
> 
> We have a GOP governor in IL, but the state is very firmly in the hands of the Demonrats. They have a pretty good track record of having enough votes to override his vetoes. Beyond official control of both the House and the Senate, they have a number of Demonrats who ran as RINOs in the NE part of the state and consistently vote as such. The only thing holding them back on their favorite topic of gun control/confiscation is the downstate members of their own party tend to vote against that cutting them short of override numbers. Everything else they just ram on through.


 You missed my question mark (?) The Reply from the other poster hinted at GOP being a major factor in this problem , my post noted that 71% of our Nations Populous is firmly under Democrat Rule (Statewise)


----------



## OSC

Gator Monroe said:


> You missed my question mark (?) The Reply from the other poster hinted at GOP being a major factor in this problem , my post noted that 71% of our Nations Populous is firmly under Democrat Rule (Statewise)


This is what the last electoral map looked like by county.









The amount of blame (which is next to zero) for what takes place is not commensurate with the amount of responsibility they have gained through winning elections.

That was the point. Blaming Liberals for all of society ills is fine. It's just is not accurate.


----------



## Gator Monroe

OSC said:


> This is what the last electoral map looked like by county.
> 
> View attachment 59913
> 
> 
> The amount of blame (which is next to zero) for what takes place is not commensurate with the amount of responsibility they have gained through winning elections.
> 
> That was the point. Blaming Liberals for all of society ills is fine. It's just is not accurate.


Blaming Democrats for Ills in California , New Jersey, New York, Maryland ... is correct and blaming Democrats for what happens to 71 % of our nations populace (Because that is the Number of Populace living in Democrat Controlled States )


----------



## White Shadow

Gator Monroe said:


> You missed my question mark (?) The Reply from the other poster hinted at GOP being a major factor in this problem , my post noted that 71% of our Nations Populous is firmly under Democrat Rule (Statewise)


I saw the question mark, I just misinterpreted the statement first time around.


----------



## Kauboy

Gator Monroe said:


> But but there are still 2A/RTKBA purists who think tubby perp deserved his 2A/RTKBA rights (regardless of lies on 4473 forms )


When it comes to the 2nd amendment, I'm as pure as they come.
This man violated the rights of another, and due to that, forfeited his own rights.
If our system worked the way it should, when he committed great bodily harm to that child (cracked skull), it should have earned him a life sentence.

If you have names of these so-called "purists" who think violent repeat offenders should have access to firearms, I'd like a copy of that list.


----------



## rstanek

Liberal logic


----------



## Gator Monroe

Kauboy said:


> When it comes to the 2nd amendment, I'm as pure as they come.
> This man violated the rights of another, and due to that, forfeited his own rights.
> If our system worked the way it should, when he committed great bodily harm to that child (cracked skull), it should have earned him a life sentence.
> 
> If you have names of these so-called "purists" who think violent repeat offenders should have access to firearms, I'd like a copy of that list.


There were at lest 4 other regular posters here who said numerous times (In many thread trees ) that if a person is free (On street ) for whatever reason (Like they did their time , or were let out due to Mistake or clearical error or Jail Overcrowding or Liberal Policy ) that no matter their previous crime they should have 2A/RTKBA rights ...


----------



## Kauboy

Gator Monroe said:


> There were at lest 4 other regular posters here who said numerous times (In many thread trees ) that if a person is free (On street ) for whatever reason (Like they did their time , or were let out due to Mistake or clearical error or Jail Overcrowding or Liberal Policy ) that no matter their previous crime they should have 2A/RTKBA rights ...


I am one of those people.
Kindly tell me where that logic, in itself, fails.
If a person breaks the law, is punished for breaking the law, and is then deemed worthy to be set free into society, why should they not again have ALL basic human rights restored?
If you take issue with the "deemed worthy" portion, then you and I are likely in agreement that violent people should NEVER be deemed worthy to return to society.

Had the system worked as intended, and he had been locked up for life for his crime, this would be a non-issue in this case.


----------



## Daddy O

What is driving me nuts about this shooting is that even though two HEROES ran the coward down and cornered him (put a bullet in his arse too) the press is still refusing to believe in the Good Guy With A Gun philosophy.

Even though when that senator got shot on the baseball field, the shooter was stopped by capitol police. But that same day in Frisco, a guy walked into fedex and killed a bunch of people with no resistance. San Fran is a gun free zone (unless you are Dianne Feinstein who had 2 guns and a CCW permit while she was mayor.)

Even though Israel proved long ago that arming their teachers keeps PLO thugs from murdering their school teachers. The last time one tried, two teachers cornered the guy and killed him. 

Even worse, they just can't seem to understand that alienating all gun owners is a dumb idea. Their default, go-to idea is always to ban guns, then they're surprised when the NRA shuts them down or won't even discuss the issue.

Funny thing; my wife used to think I was a nut for CCW at church (and the movies, restaurants, and every other public place). But she doesn't feel that way now.


----------



## Gator Monroe

Kauboy said:


> I am one of those people.
> Kindly tell me where that logic, in itself, fails.
> If a person breaks the law, is punished for breaking the law, and is then deemed worthy to be set free into society, why should they not again have ALL basic human rights restored?
> If you take issue with the "deemed worthy" portion, then you and I are likely in agreement that violent people should NEVER be deemed worthy to return to society.
> 
> Had the system worked as intended, and he had been locked up for life for his crime, this would be a non-issue in this case.


If we kept all the Prisoners that deserved being locked up locked up we would have more folks in Prison than there are Prisoners in Europe and Australia/New Zealand and Japan/Korea and 12 other countries combined ...


----------



## Coastie dad

Well then we apparently have a societal problem. Let's see....more liberal candy assed whining bleeding heart socialist/communist pricks coupled with corrupt politicians destroying this country .


----------



## OSC

Counties don’t make ordinances and laws? Cities do not? Sure they do. 

And while you’re statistical cherry picking is correct, the idea that someone in Albany has control over what someone does in Rochester is a bit silly. I mean, are you controlled by any politician? There are limits on your behavior but “control” is a bit over the top.

Anyway, your school district is local, your sheriff’s department is local, your court system is local to a degree. Your DA is local, your taxing authority is local, etc…. IF something goes wrong….you guys blame Hillary or Obama; never the guys you elect. That was my point.


----------



## Kauboy

Gator Monroe said:


> If we kept all the Prisoners that deserved being locked up locked up we would have more folks in Prison than there are Prisoners in Europe and Australia/New Zealand and Japan/Korea and 12 other countries combined ...


I'm not seeing how that is a rebuttal.
Perhaps it wasn't meant to be.
Please clarify your point.


----------



## Gator Monroe

Kauboy said:


> I'm not seeing how that is a rebuttal.
> Perhaps it wasn't meant to be.
> Please clarify your point.


That without the death penalty and with Jail & Prison Overcrowding & overzealous releasing of criminals and sparse Mental Facilities there will always be hundreds of thousands of folks both you & I would deem unfit to have 2A/RTKBA and freedom to be among us .


----------



## The Tourist

Clearly, the man who pulled the trigger is the ultimate guilty party.

However, the way the paperwork was mishandled--three times--didn't help either.

In Wisconsin the Tavern League throws a long shadow. You can have nine DUIs and not do time. There's been many bills advanced to make the third drunken driving offense a felony and stiff jail time. We haven't managed to get it passed.

As for guys that should have been on the radar, this shooter should have been at the top of the list. Thrown out of the military or not, he knew something about guns. Beating his wife and kid is a big red flag. Guys like that should have an ankle bracelet linked to a drone 24/7.


----------



## Kauboy

Gator Monroe said:


> That without the death penalty and with Jail & Prison Overcrowding & overzealous releasing of criminals and sparse Mental Facilities there will always be hundreds of thousands of folks both you & I would deem unfit to have 2A/RTKBA and freedom to be among us .


Then it sounds like we know exactly where our focus should be given.
Not in continuing to punish those who've served their time, but in pushing for additional prisons, stronger penalties, and a better mental health program for those who truly need it.
A free society should not suspend basic human rights for anyone who is not a jailed convict and not a mentally unstable(danger to themselves or others) person.
Surely you agree with this, and can see that the problem lies in our institutions themselves.

I can see your point too, that until these institutions are corrected, you don't want dangerous people having free access to firearms. I just can't support that as a whole.
Impacting 100% of the population of previously convicted, and now free, citizens just to stop the small minority that might be a danger is illogical.
It's akin to Obama's failed logic of "if it can save just one life, shouldn't we do that?" Hogwash. No, we shouldn't if it violates a basic human right. We should buck up, deal with the risks that freedom entails, and stop pretending that we get to discriminate against a subclass of free people by taking away some of their rights.


----------



## Gator Monroe

I do not believe Visa Overstayers and illegal Aliens should pass muster on 4473 even if they lie ( Same as Mental midgets like the Church shooter )


----------



## A Watchman




----------



## preppermyA

Box of frogs said:


> Georgia most definitely does not ban carrying at Church.


This is from the GA code, downloaded this month.

(b) Except as provided in subsection (d) or (e) of this Code section, a person shall be guilty of carrying a weapon or long gun in an unauthorized location and punished as for a misdemeanor when he or she carries a weapon or long gun while:
(1) In a government building as a nonlicense holder;
(2) In a courthouse;
(3) In a jail or prison;
(4) In a place of worship, unless the governing body or authority of the place of worship
permits the carrying of weapons or long guns by license holders;


----------



## 7515

preppermyA said:


> This is from the GA code, downloaded this month.
> 
> (b) Except as provided in subsection (d) or (e) of this Code section, a person shall be guilty of carrying a weapon or long gun in an unauthorized location and punished as for a misdemeanor when he or she carries a weapon or long gun while:
> (1) In a government building as a nonlicense holder;
> (2) In a courthouse;
> (3) In a jail or prison;
> (4) In a place of worship, unless the governing body or authority of the place of worship
> permits the carrying of weapons or long guns by license holders;


The state does not ban carry inside churches. It is a decision left up to each church.


----------



## 7515

Licensed gun holders will be able to carry their firearms into churches, if the church leaders agree; before the law, bringing firearms in houses of worship was illegal.

New Georgia Law Will Allow Guns in Schools, Churches, and Courtrooms


----------



## Gator Monroe

So have we learned if the shooter was a rabid lefty yet ?


----------



## Kauboy

Gator Monroe said:


> So have we learned if the shooter was a rabid lefty yet ?


All that's been "officially" released (through internet post grabbers) is that he was an atheist.
Now, I'm not saying all atheists are left-leaning people, nor that all left-leaning people are atheists. I personally know many of each that would violate any such idea.
However, if anyone had to place an objective bet on a person's political leanings based solely on that one characteristic alone... my money's on him being a lefty loon.

Add to it that ALL recent mass shootings have been conducted by lefty loons, it makes the bet all the more safe.


----------

