# Another vehicle time



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Another vehicle time. Made up my mind I wanted a 4 wheel or all wheel drive vehicle. I dislike pick up trucks. Had them on the farm when it was almost necessary . But for me that would be the only time. And then it would be a bare bones truck.
Made my list. What did not madder was economy MPG meant nothing. It had to be 4 wheel drive or the modern all wheel drive. It had to handle a reasonable trailer and be able to pull it. Had to seat 5 with comfort . The back seat needed to have leg room. While not set in concrete it should be a Ford. New or low mile used was fine.
Looked at 3 The Escape, Edge and Explorer. Each had good points. The Escape was on the small side and a bit light on power. Any used I came across were high miles and new with AWD were priced at a premium for the smaller vehicle.
The Edge fell in the middle of the 3. New was a bit steep but they were well equipped, surprising most had the 2.0 in them. The Explore was nice and Big AWD and 4 wheel drive priced the same and all of them were priced high. The Explores I looked at all had trailer hitches installed. Most all had option packages I could live with. In the end the Edge won out. I had a list of 7 2017 to 2019 all well equipped and reasonable miles on them. I had the 2017 at the end of the list and was sure it was going to be crossed off. It had the SLE package. As I went down the list I noticed it had options not on the higher end ones. More research showed that dealer had added more to it than the SLE package it has the 3.5 engine. Soon it was on top of the list . The year meant nothing to me. 5 minutes with a salesman I have sat across the table from before. We had a price and terms. This will be the first time in 30plus years I did not purchase a reasonable vehicle.


----------



## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I've always driven trucks when I was paying the freight. My last one was a 1997 F-150 which now has +/-90K miles on it and it runs like a trooper. I have had to buy a set of new tires, one suspect alternator, and I had one battery go bad. Nothing on the engine has been touched except for periodic replacements of air cleaners.

Oh, I ordered mine with a five-speed manual transmission. It's the best "anti-theft" option I could think of to guard against criminal millennials. Those guys can't find a job much less figure out a clutch...


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Three words for you ….. Jeep Grand Cherokee

It's slightly larger than the base Cherokee model.


----------



## Tango2X (Jul 7, 2016)

Toyota 4 Runner, never look back!


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Congrats on the new vehicle Smitty!

I was hoping you'd bought the new Ford Ranger and sported it up a bit...


----------



## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Congrats on the new vehicle Smitty!
> 
> I was hoping you'd bought the new Ford Ranger and sported it up a bit...
> 
> View attachment 98935


I like my pick-em-up trucks. :shock:


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Tango2X said:


> Toyota 4 Runner, never look back!


 Nice but to small and to light


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

I doubt you will be happy with the Edge. My friend's wife had one and it was just lots of meh and plastic. Cheeseburgers and tears, my friend!!


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Do NOT go with the Escape. I did and wish I hadn't.

The hatch is actuator-driven and it goes bad. Mine was replaced within the first three-thousand miles. The replacement is already going bad.

You know the back-up camera? Really nice, until the screen goes blank while you are using it. Speaking of the display, it'll stay dark upon crank-up every once in a while.

Oh, and I've never made the highway MPG and I've tried. That might mean much to you but I don't like false advertising.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Denton said:


> Do NOT go with the Escape. I did and wish I hadn't.
> 
> The hatch is actuator-driven and it goes bad. Mine was replaced within the first three-thousand miles. The replacement is already going bad.
> 
> ...


 The Escape was to small. My neighbor has one for her Dog kennel business and has served her well but It would not have met my wants. Her husband has the Edge and it has served him well. I have already wrote the check so deal is done. 
We are keeping the Ford C-Max so if it is just trips to town and running around we still get 35-41 miles to MPG.
The Edge has the room inside I wanted. The ground clearance for snow it has the larger tire option on it. went back and forth on the old style 4 wheel drive or AWD. AWD won out it is better for road driving and not planning on hard core off road stuff with it.
I liked the Explore but it was just a bit larger than what I was looking for.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> Three words for you &#8230;.. Jeep Grand Cherokee
> 
> It's slightly larger than the base Cherokee model.


 I had seriously consider a Jeep product. One hold back was every person I know with one had a lot of problems with them. Not the minor annoying things but major ones . Front end issue engine ect. If My goal had been some off road I would have gone Jeep product. Anther reason on my list for this type vehicle was the bikes and ATV's. I have been lucky over the years never had to go bring one home but the time is coming and wanted to have the option to trailer on if needed.
Now I need to find the right trailer. Car Truck SUV , cross over we have so many good options .


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

It's to late now but the Honda Pilot would have been my choice. Just like their bikes those Honda's run forever with no problems and still have great resale. 

Seems strange that there would be so many 1-2 year old Edge's for sale. Wonder why??


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Chipper said:


> It's to late now but the Honda Pilot would have been my choice. Just like their bikes those Honda's run forever with no problems and still have great resale.
> 
> Seems strange that there would be so many 1-2 year old Edge's for sale. Wonder why??


 Lease program cars. You see it in every brand. A big money maker. people lease a vehicle one with a sticker of 40-50 grand . They drive it and carefully work to not go over the mileage . They turn it in at the end of the lease . Dealerships purchase them and resell them. I have never understood the average person leasing a car. But a lot more than you know are leased vehicles. The are marketed as program cars. Most still have balance factory warranty plus a 7/100,000 mile power train warranty. Bumper to bumper can be had at a low price with most of them. Did that with my C-max 9 years 140.000 miles every thing is covered except brakes and tires. GPS radio system fail at 90,000 miles cost me nothing. At the same time they did a emission system repair that was needed.
Pilot is a fine light weight as is the 4 runner and others but they are designed for what I was looking for.


----------



## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)

I just bought a 2019 Honda C RV AWD and I absolutely love it. I highly recommend.


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Lease program cars. You see it in every brand. A big money maker. people lease a vehicle one with a sticker of 40-50 grand . They drive it and carefully work to not go over the mileage . They turn it in at the end of the lease . Dealerships purchase them and resell them. I have never understood the average person leasing a car. But a lot more than you know are leased vehicles. The are marketed as program cars. Most still have balance factory warranty plus a 7/100,000 mile power train warranty. Bumper to bumper can be had at a low price with most of them. Did that with my C-max 9 years 140.000 miles every thing is covered except brakes and tires. GPS radio system fail at 90,000 miles cost me nothing. At the same time they did a emission system repair that was needed.
> Pilot is a fine light weight as is the 4 runner and others but they are designed for what I was looking for.


 Last I looked the 4 runners are a full frame vehicle. Not even in the same level as a unibody Edge. Just because they are small doesn't mean they are a lite weight. Pilot and a Edge are as close to the same as you can get.

I look at lease vehicle differently more like a rental vehicle. Someone got a new rig used the crap out of cause they knew it was going to be turned in. Didn't like it enough to buy it at lease end and moved on. Warranty has never been a reason for me to buy a particular vehicle. As I don't allow anyone to work on my rigs. Just because someone is employed at a dealership doesn't mean they will treat my rig like I will. Take 2 minutes and read online about all the stealership nightmares with people and warranties.

Besides at this point what difference does it make?? You already made your choice. Enjoy your new toy.


----------



## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

@Chipper Question for you Sir,

So a 4 Runner has what you call a full frame, I assume that is what I call a Body on Frame right? I've always heard that a SUV or Truck that has a Body on Frame is better for tow/hauling and off road?

The Unibody design is using a unique to that vehicle one piece body and frame that would give you a smoother ride and probably lighter weight? Is tht a fair understanding?


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

NewRiverGeorge said:


> I just bought a 2019 Honda C RV AWD and I absolutely love it. I highly recommend.


We have been the proud owner of 2 CRVs. Great little vehicles with a surprisingly smooth ride due to a longer wheel base than other smaller SUVS they claim. Think the first one had better quality control than the 2nd. I am currently madly in love with Toyotas and Lexus. We have an 8 year old Tundra with zero issues. It can pull a pretty big trailer which we thought we might use to pull a camper but I recalled out much a pain in the butt it was to mess with those things so we just stay at no tell motels on our infrequent outtings. Then I drive a 92 hot rod Lexus with 200 k on the dial which my brother gave me a few years back. Dang fine car right there. Also 8 cylinders which is sorta unusual for that brand. I can smoke all the tenny boppers in drag racing between the traffic lights. It shows 160 on the speeometer. The mechanic says it can prob still hit 140 but I will need new tires to test that hypothesis. I would not take a free Jeep.


----------



## adalah (Feb 12, 2019)

agree...you need Grand Cherokee


----------



## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

adalah said:


> agree...you need Grand Cherokee


Interesting. You seem to have an invisible url attached to your posts. @rice paddy daddy will be with you, shortly.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I have a son and a pal with with the little 4 cylinder Jeep Suvs. Renegade maybe. They both love them to pieces. We took a pretty long road trip in the boys and it was very comfortable. The pal is an old retired yankee truck driver who goes back and forth to yankee land a lot and all he does is brag on his..biotch about Texas drivers etc. 
https://www.jeep.com/renegade.html


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

With the 3.5 I have 3,500 pound Towing. Little over what i need . but better to be over than under. The 2.7 tubro was listed at 2,000. Just brought it home a bit ago


----------



## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> @Chipper Question for you Sir,
> 
> So a 4 Runner has what you call a full frame, I assume that is what I call a Body on Frame right? I've always heard that a SUV or Truck that has a Body on Frame is better for tow/hauling and off road?
> 
> The Unibody design is using a unique to that vehicle one piece body and frame that would give you a smoother ride and probably lighter weight? Is tht a fair understanding?


I don't know about a 4 Runner.
A full frame vehicle has the body sitting on a full perimeter frame, similar to cars from the 1950's. Full size trucks still use this construction
A unibody is the passenger compartment "tub" with a section of frame in the back to hold the rear axle and fuel tank, and also a small stub upfront to hold the engine/transmission/axles/steering.

A full frame vehicle is inherently stronger. Which is why real trucks still use them.
A unibody allows a shorter over all height, uses less material and is therefore cheaper to produce and is lighter, an important consideration for manufacturers trying to meet bull crap government fuel economy standards.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I don't know about a 4 Runner.
> A full frame vehicle has the body sitting on a full perimeter frame, similar to cars from the 1950's. Full size trucks still use this construction
> A unibody is the passenger compartment "tub" with a section of frame in the back to hold the rear axle and fuel tank, and also a small stub upfront to hold the engine/transmission/axles/steering.
> 
> ...


The oldest Son has a Fore Runner. Hes a traveling salesman and puts a bunch of miles on his cars. He makes me want one. Know the last time we took off to Coloradoi he was toting 4 adults and all their luggage. No problems.


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> With the 3.5 I have 3,500 pound Towing. Little over what i need . but better to be over than under. The 2.7 tubro was listed at 2,000. Just brought it home a bit ago


Hell, my Acura MDX with the 3.7 liter will tow 5,000 lbs. I bet you get a lot better gas mileage than it does, though. :vs_laugh:


----------



## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I won't buy anything made with Chinesium , or in Mexico/Brazil/Japan/Korea.

I found a 80s chevy C10, 32K miles, all original not rust/rot. It has a heavy half and the Muncie creeper 4-speed. I can work on it with simple tools.

The smog motor 305, is getting a crate 350 w/headers, eldebrock,.....or maybe a I-6 292? My 73 C10 292 gets > 20 mpg

It will be < 10K when done, and no Chineiseum parts



Winter stuff I still like early S10s. I have an 89 baja package 4.3 S10. I can work on it without a computer. I don't like fuel pump in gas tank.


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> I won't buy anything made with Chinesium , or in Mexico/Brazil/Japan/Korea.
> 
> I found a 80s chevy C10, 32K miles, all original not rust/rot. It has a heavy half and the Muncie creeper 4-speed. I can work on it with simple tools.
> 
> ...


Like those wheels!! :vs_wave:


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mad Trapper said:


> I won't buy anything made with Chinesium , or in Mexico/Brazil/Japan/Korea.
> 
> I found a 80s chevy C10, 32K miles, all original not rust/rot. It has a heavy half and the Muncie creeper 4-speed. I can work on it with simple tools.
> 
> ...


 Nice truck. I would buy an older chev but never a new one again. My needs were not for an older vehicle . Like them or not many of the newer vehicle run a long time with no issues. 
wife's c-max is at 100,000 tires, brakes and 1 battery . Grand daughter has the Fiesta I gave her at 45,000 with 150,000 on it now tire brakes, belt and battery. .
Oldest sons 2015 Fusion is at 200,000 Tires , brakes, and an alignment. I just gave my Daughter the 2014 Focus I had 70,000 due for tires now other than that 1 set front brake pads. And I just always do rotors away now days. They are darn near all good now days


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Mad Trapper said:


> I won't buy anything made with Chinesium , or in Mexico/Brazil/Japan/Korea.
> 
> I found a 80s chevy C10, 32K miles, all original not rust/rot. It has a heavy half and the Muncie creeper 4-speed. I can work on it with simple tools.
> 
> ...


You might want to give that fine looking sled a DNA test. I had a chevy pick up El Camino of that era which clearly said..A product of Mexico. Seems like Honda now takes the honor of having the most American made parts. Did you know if you disassble a Harley Evolution Engiene from the 70s..it clearly says Made in Japan on some of the parts. Least thats what a guy said in Easy Rider Magazine in that general time frame.


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> You might want to give that fine looking sled a DNA test. I had a chevy pick up El Camino of that era which clearly said..A product of Mexico. Seems like Honda now takes the honor of having the most American made parts. Did you know if you disassble a Harley Evolution Engiene from the 70s..it clearly says Made in Japan on some of the parts. Least thats what a guy said in Easy Rider Magazine in that general time frame.


SShhhhhh!!! Don't tell Hawgrider!!!:vs_no_no_no:


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I think most of us already know due to sell outs years ago Every auto maker uses Made in China parts. In many case you can not even get them made any where else. Sucks but that is the world we allowed to happen. pretty sure the Edge will serve us well.
Had a big double birthday party today so have not driven it much yet.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Fine looking sled. Red cars are rumored to be ticket magnets. Watch that speed.lol.


----------



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Slippy said:


> @Chipper Question for you Sir,
> 
> So a 4 Runner has what you call a full frame, I assume that is what I call a Body on Frame right? I've always heard that a SUV or Truck that has a Body on Frame is better for tow/hauling and off road?
> 
> The Unibody design is using a unique to that vehicle one piece body and frame that would give you a smoother ride and probably lighter weight? Is tht a fair understanding?





rice paddy daddy said:


> I don't know about a 4 Runner.
> A full frame vehicle has the body sitting on a full perimeter frame, similar to cars from the 1950's. Full size trucks still use this construction
> A unibody is the passenger compartment "tub" with a section of frame in the back to hold the rear axle and fuel tank, and also a small stub upfront to hold the engine/transmission/axles/steering.
> 
> ...


In 2004 I bought a new 4Runner. One of the biggest reasons was because it was full frame. Uni-bodies don't appeal to me. I have been rear-ended twice now. They had front end damage and my trailer hitch got scratched. The hitch is attached to the frame and took the brunt of the hit. No other damage on either of those 2.

I still have it with 260k miles. It's somewhat of a beater but it does what I need it to do. I've had very, very few issues with it. The only thing that annoys me about the vehicle is the cost of the tires. We used to travel in it but my wife just bought a new Camry so that's our travel vehicle now. She got the sport version XSE and boy is it fun to drive.

Say what you want but there hasn't been a truly American made vehicle in many decades. Mexico, China, Canada and Japan are the biggest sources for most parts including the body parts. They are assembled here but that's about it. Our Camry was built in Tennessee. Probably with parts from the previously mentioned countries. Truly Made in America is about as scarce as hens teeth.


----------



## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Three words for you &#8230;.. Jeep Grand Cherokee
> 
> It's slightly larger than the base Cherokee model.


Bought one two days ago....Not even 48 hours old yet LOL! Wound up with bells and whistles the wife wanted at $48K

Going looking at new RV's today...Not buying yet but probably within a month after some serious looking around.


----------



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Denton said:


> Interesting. You seem to have an invisible url attached to your posts.
> @*rice paddy daddy*
> will be with you, shortly.


*poof* he's gone.






We have an Explorer. It's got over 200,000 miles on her. Shakes, rattles and rolls, but hey that's pretty darn good for an old jalopy.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

SGT E said:


> Bought one two days ago....Not even 48 hours old yet LOL! Wound up with bells and whistles the wife wanted at $48K
> 
> Going looking at new RV's today...Not buying yet but probably within a month after some serious looking around.


Happy RV'ing. We had anticipated snagging a trasiler when we bought our Tundra a few years back but got to thinking about what a pain in the butt it was to mess with it when we had one previously...and knowing I woiuld go nuts confined with my wife in a small space for extended periods of time..(do they ever shut up?) so I chickened out. Mama still wants one but thats her problem. In an ideal scenario a person should pick out the RV Mama wants and then go buy whatever it takes to pull it. In your case what kinda specs do the trailer have to have. Thanks. Remembering less it more when it it comes to trailer weights.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Ordered my trailer hitch and Weather Tech floor and cargo mats. Looked at a few trailers two stood out but Going to do some more looking. Picking one would normally be easy buy I would like one that can haul the sidecar if I needed too.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Happy RV'ing. We had anticipated snagging a trasiler when we bought our Tundra a few years back but got to thinking about what a pain in the butt it was to mess with it when we had one previously...and knowing I woiuld go nuts confined with my wife in a small space for extended periods of time..(do they ever shut up?) so I chickened out. Mama still wants one but thats her problem. In an ideal scenario a person should pick out the RV Mama wants and then go buy whatever it takes to pull it. In your case what kinda specs do the trailer have to have. Thanks. Remembering less it more when it it comes to trailer weights.


Have you ever considered driving her to a far away destination and unhitching, before heading back home?


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> Have you ever considered driving her to a far away destination and unhitching, before heading back home?


 No.She would call the cops.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Ordered my trailer hitch and Weather Tech floor and cargo mats. Looked at a few trailers two stood out but Going to do some more looking. Picking one would normally be easy buy I would like one that can haul the sidecar if I needed too.


Have a pal or two that swears these are nice and hold their value surprisingly well. The rumor it the used ones dont cost much less than the new ones. 
https://casitatraveltrailers.com/


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Have a pal or two that swears these are nice and hold their value surprisingly well. The rumor it the used ones dont cost much less than the new ones.
> https://casitatraveltrailers.com/


 I looking at trailers for hauling stuff. I am not going camping. Spend a fair amount of time in tents in the Army . I am done camping. And most camp grounds I ride by are more crowed than I want to be.


----------



## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> With the 3.5 I have 3,500 pound Towing. Little over what i need . but better to be over than under. The 2.7 tubro was listed at 2,000. Just brought it home a bit ago


Nice vehicle Smitty! Congrats!

I am not generally a fan of GM products. But I had 2019 Chevy Suburban as a rental car a few weeks ago on a trip to San Jose. That was a damn nice vehicle. It was plenty roomy. I was only there for a day and a half so it only hauled 1 change of clothes and my laptop, but it seemed to have plenty of power. I am sure it would do fine with a trailer. It had every bell and whistle you could think of.

But there was one "show-stopper" for me from ever owning one... It had "advanced collision detection"... All cars seem to have collision detection now. They flash lights at you or beep at you if they think you going to drive into a guard rail or drift into another car in the next lane. But the Chevy Suburban has "advanced collision detection"! It does not flash lights or beep at you if it "thinks" you are going to get into an accident; IT VIBRATES THE FREAKIN' DRIVER'S SEAT!!!

I was driving up the freeway at 65 and wanted to switch lanes so I turned on my turn signal. The damn thing starts vibrating because there was a car next to me! I don't care about the car next to me, I am signaling the car behind him!!! This damn thing vibrated more than the bed in the wedding suite in a cheap Ramada motel!!!

By the time I got checked into my hotel I was nervous wreck! Then I got to thinking: "I'm in the Bay Area. The homos probably reserve this damn thing just to drive through congestion with a turn signal on, just to get off!!!" That gives a whole new meaning to the term "traffic jam"...

Nope! Not for me!!!


----------



## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

I am seriously looking at a 4RUNNER as a potential last vehicle. People put lots of miles on them and they just keep going. But the front end on the new ones are kinds weird..


----------



## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Oh yeah, the best thing about the 4-runner besides having a full frame is you can get it with a V-8. Sure can't beat a V-8 for towing and hauling. 

Instead of buying one rig for 40-50K as a last rig. Thought it might be better to have a few rigs, cheaper. That way I save on insurance, deprecation, maintenance and repair costs. Heck you guys are losing more money by signing the paperwork then I have into the fleet.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Email said my trailer hitch will be here today. That was fast. Went with the Draw tight Class 3. 675/4500 no reason to cut corners on it. Next pick up the wiring harness.
What little I have driven it I do like the blind spot warning feature.
Edit the Weather Tech mats and the trailer hitch booth showed up. So tomorrow I may install the hitch. looks like 45 minutes to an hour job with coffee. Just for the record we do have some rough vehicles around here. That use little to none of the modern tech. Army Duce , 5 ton, Army semi rig. A true off road rock climbing jeep. The jeep likes to go swimming at times. Sad part is it almost made it.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

The Draw tight hitch 75234 went on easy every thing lined up installed in about 35 minutes. Floor mats are in . Next step is the wiring for trailer. Taking a ride today to compare a few trailers.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Made up my mind on trailer this morning 82 inches by 144. Exceeds my needs a bit. Sidecar rig will fit on it if needed. Trailer is 450 lbs . Purchased from local dealer witch is one of my first wants in buying anything.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Gotcha. Guess I was thinking you was the RV guy there for a min. Sorry.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Gotcha. Guess I was thinking you was the RV guy there for a min. Sorry.


 Sir , I spent to many days and nights camping in the Army. I am going in style the rest of my days 4-5 star motels.


----------



## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I can feels your pain. As an old boy scout it seemed like fun at the time but old fat guys shouldnt try it. Smart thinking and thanks for your Service.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Update on my Edge. Made 400 mile road trip with. Found few reasons to drive it here and there. Load some stuff in the back of it. So far I like it. Bigger than what I am use to for day to day driving , Plenty of power Quiet and sure is comfortable.


----------



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Another reason I like the new Edge. A 54 inch rifle case fits any where I want and more than one. Sounds silly until you try to put a 54 inch case in most even so called SUV's. Heading to a funeral, after that we will get some bonding range time in.


----------

