# Getting Antibiotics BEFORE SHTF



## Grim Reality

If things get REALLY bad in times to come, antibiotics will be among the MOST valuable
things to have. They can quite literally be Lifesavers.

However, depending upon your relationship with your doctor you might get him to write
you a prescription for them ahead of time...or maybe he/she will not be so inclined.

In my search to locate some I have found aquarium antibiotics are the same as those
intended for humans. But there are some which are from China / Thailand which are
close to DIRT CHEAP!!

What concerns me is...are these companies halfway around the world actually sending
REAL antibiotics or is it a rip-off?

Anyone know of a good way to determine this? I don't plan on getting ill and THEN
discovering that they are worthless...nor do I want to waste my money.

Grim


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## Mad Trapper

Grim Reality said:


> If things get REALLY bad in times to come, antibiotics will be among the MOST valuable
> things to have. They can quite literally be Lifesavers.
> 
> However, depending upon your relationship with your doctor you might get him to write
> you a prescription for them ahead of time...or maybe he/she will not be so inclined.
> 
> In my search to locate some I have found aquarium antibiotics are the same as those
> intended for humans. But there are some which are from China / Thailand which are
> close to DIRT CHEAP!!
> 
> What concerns me is...are these companies halfway around the world actually sending
> REAL antibiotics or is it a rip-off?
> 
> Anyone know of a good way to determine this? I don't plan on getting ill and THEN
> discovering that they are worthless...nor do I want to waste my money.
> 
> Grim


I would not buy food for a goldfish from the chi-coms, let alone something my life could depend on.

There are USA companies that sell both animal and human antibiotics, go there first


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## txmarine6531




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## Denton

I will wait until Tirednurse has time to break it down for us. What vet antibiotic for what infection.


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## txmarine6531

Is she working on it, or you just hoping she'll do it?


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## Denton

txmarine6531 said:


> Is she working on it, or you just hoping she'll do it?


Hoping she will do it.

The two people who I want to put in my phone on speed dial - Auntie and Tirednurse.


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## txmarine6531

That would be a good sticky.


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## Illini Warrior

Dr Koelker is another prepper doc like Dr Doom of Bloom & Doom fame .... she composed a couple of "cheater" charts for us prepper laymen planning on used animal antibiotics during a serious SHTF ....

Fish Antibiotic Update 2015

http://armageddonmedicine.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Antibiotic-Indications-and-Dose1.pdf

Antibiotic Indications and Dose

http://armageddonmedicine.net/wp-co...h-Antibiotic-is-US-Pharmacopeia-Grade-PDF.pdf


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## Mad Trapper

This is off the net but may be useful, I am not a MD or Pharmacist. But do have advanced degrees in Biochemistry and Chemistry:

There are many antibiotics, but which antibiotics accessible to the average person would be good additions to your medical storage? Each antibiotic belongs to its own family and is useful for different ailments. Here are some common antibiotics (available in veterinary form without a prescription) that you will want in your medical arsenal and their veterinary equivalent:

Amoxicillin 500mg/Fish-Mox Forte
Amoxicillin 250mg AND 500mg (FISH-MOX, FISH-MOX FORTE)
Ciprofloxacin 250mg and 500mg (FISH-FLOX, FISH-FLOX FORTE)
Cephalexin 250mg and 500mg (FISH-FLEX, FISH-FLEX FORTE)
Metronidazole 250mg (FISH-ZOLE)
Doxycycline 100mg (BIRD-BIOTIC)
Ampicillin 250mg and 500mg (FISH-CILLIN, FISH-CILLIN FORTE)
Clindamycin 300mg (FISH-CIN)
Sulfamethoxazole 400mg/Trimethoprin 80mg (BIRD-SULFA)
Azithromycin 250mg (AQUATIC AZITHROMYCIN)
There are various others that you can choose, but the selections above will give you the opportunity to treat many illnesses and have enough variety so that even those with Penicillin allergies with have options. Cephalexin, although not in the same drug family as Penicillin, has been quoted as having a 10% cross-reactivity rate; that is, a person allergic to Penicillin will have a 10% chance of being allergic to Cephalexin.
In recent developments, Doxycycline recently had a huge price increase and is now available in 100mg powder packets instead of tablets/capsules. That is the human dose, but I haven’t evaluated a sample of it as of yet.


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## stevekozak

This is an interesting subject!


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## txmarine6531

stevekozak said:


> This is an interesting subject!


It is, and a little nerve racking as popping the wrong ones, wrong dose, wrong combo can make things get real bad. I haven't bought any yet because I don't know shat about this subject and I don't want to load up on something that will go bad and poison me, or get the wrong stuff, ect. I'm glad there's knowledgeable folks on here.


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## Mad Trapper

Again NOT a MD or Pharmacist, general guidelines, beware of allergies and don't mix and match. Just information, use at your own risk:

Survival Medicine Infection Workshop 2014
￼￼￼￼￼The following antibiotics are chosen according to availability and cost. Certain stronger antibiotics (such as Avelox) have been omitted due to lack of availability and higher cost.
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼FIRST-LINE ANTIBIOTICS TO HAVE ON HAND
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Name
Purpose
Adult dose
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Amoxicillin
Upper respiratory infection Pneumonia
Strep throat & ear infections Dental infections
+/- Urinary infections
250-500 mg, 3x daily
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Penicillin
Upper respiratory infection Pneumonia
Strep throat & ear infections Dental infections
250-500 mg, 4x daily
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Trimethoprim- sulfamethoxazole
Urinary infections
MRSA infections
+/- Upper respiratory infection
800/160, 1⁄2 to 1 tab 2x daily
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Doxycycline
Upper respiratory infection Tick-borne illnesses Bioterrorism organisms MRSA infections Gonorrhea and chlamydia
100 mg, 2x daily
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Cephalexin
Skin infections (non-MRSA)
+/- Upper respiratory infection Infected wounds
250-500 mg, 3-4x daily
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼SECOND-LINE “HEAVY-DUTY” ANTIBIOTICS
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Ciprofloxacin
Urinary tract infections Prostatitis and epididymitis +/- Upper respiratory infection +/- Gonorrhea
250-500 mg, 2x daily
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Levofloxacin
Pneumonia
Diabetic soft tissue infections Urinary tract infections Intra-abdominal infections
500 mg, 1x daily
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼
Survival Medicine Infection Workshop 2014
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Amoxicillin-clavulanate
￼Pneumonia
Resistant respiratory infections Diabetic soft tissue infections Urinary tract infections Intra-abdominal infections Infected dog & cat bites
￼￼875/125 mg, 2-3x daily
￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼Cefdinir
￼Pneumonia
Resistant respiratory infections Soft tissue infections
Urinary tract infections
+/- Intra-abdominal infections
￼￼300 mg, 2x daily
￼￼Azithromycin
￼Upper respiratory infection
Pneumonia
Strep throat & ear infections
Gonorrhea and chlamydia
Alternative for penicillin-allergic patients
￼￼250-500 mg, 1x daily
￼￼Clarithromycin
￼Alternative for penicillin-allergic patients Upper respiratory infection
Pneumonia
Strep throat & ear infections
Alternative for penicillin-allergic patients
￼￼250-500 mg, 2x daily
￼￼Clindamycin
￼￼Alternative for penicillin-allergic patients Respiratory & dental infections
￼￼￼150 mg, 2-4x daily
￼￼Metronidazole
￼Trichomonas urethritis & vaginitis Intra-abdominal infections
C. difficile infection
￼250-500 mg, 3-4x daily
￼￼￼ORAL ANTIFUNGAL MEDICATION
￼￼Fluconazole
￼￼Yeast infections Fungal infections
￼￼￼100 mg, 1-2 tabs, 1x daily
￼￼Ketoconazole
￼￼NOT RECOMMENDED Risk of liver damage
￼￼￼￼￼￼Amoxicillin-clavulanate is best taken with food to prevent diarrhea or GI upset.
Metronidazole is best taken with food to aid absorption.
Ciprofloxacin, levofloxacin, and doxycycline are best taken on an empty stomach to aid absorption.
￼￼


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## Auntie

Great subject and great list!

You wouldn't want me on speed dial I usually can't find my phone. Email works best for me.


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## Kauboy

I've got some fish Amoxicillin and Cephalexin on the shelf, but only a single bottle of each(about one full regimen).
My daughter and myself can take Amox, but my wife and son cannot due to a penicillin allergy. I've not found a vet alternative to their normal Rx doses.

This list I go by was provided my PatriotNurse a few years ago:
Amoxicillin 250mg AND 500mg (FISH-MOX, FISH-MOX FORTE)
Ciprofloxacin 250mg and 500mg(FISH-FLOX, FISH-FLOX FORTE)
Cephalexin 250mg and 500mg (FISH-FLEX, FISH-FLEX FORTE)
Metronidazole 250mg (FISH-ZOLE)
Doxycycline 100mg (BIRD-BIOTIC)
Ampicillin 250mg and 500mg (FISH-CILLIN, FISH-CILLIN FORTE)
Clindamycin 300mg (FISH-CIN)
Sulfamethoxazole 400mg/Trimethoprin 80mg (BIRD-SULFA)

Acquiring them is easy. Stick with US companies, and you can find them all online.
The hard part is familiarizing yourself with proper use. Knowing what your family can take, and what they must avoid, is a big challenge too.


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## 8301

I keep 3 types of "Fish Antibiotics" along with notes for their uses stored in a cool location.


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## Maine-Marine

txmarine6531 said:


> [video=youtube;ZaL4fLXXEJg[/QUOTE]
> 
> You posted a video from patriot nurse... whats next something from hillary... I like you Marine, but I will put you on ignore


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## tirednurse

Denton said:


> I will wait until Tirednurse has time to break it down for us. What vet antibiotic for what infection.


Hi, sorry I was working.

First of all as to the question of buying from other countries. NO! only buy from american sources. I have found that these other places can be selling expired medications. Also of a concern is that not all countries regulate manufacturing plants the same as the US does. Don't take the chance over a few pennies.

As to the break down I would start with the following and then work from there. You should be prepared for the basics but since you will not have a lab to figure out what bacteria you are working with it is a guessing game anyway. There are a lot of them out there but these cover the most common you will be able to treat

Azithromycin -used for respiratory infections, sinus infection, some ear infections 
Adult -500mg x 1 day, followed by 250mg x 4 days
Child 10mg/kg x 1 day, followed by 5mg/kg x 4 days

Amoxicillin- Urinary, ear, anthrax, pneumonia, sinus, skin, respiratory
Adult 500mg 2-3 times a day for 5-7 days
Child 20-30mg/kg per day divided into 2 doses per day

Ciprofloxacin- urinary, sinus 
Adult 250mg twice a day for 7 days
Child ≥1 year : 10-20 mg/kg q12hr; individual dose not to exceed 750 mg q12hr for 10-21 days

Keflex -skin wounds, urinary, ear, respiratory
Adult 250 mg every 6 hours, ort a dose of 500 mg every 12 hours for 7 to 14 days
Child 25-50mg/kg divided doses for 7 days

Remember these are common antiboitics and the common dosage. I can not prescribe and advise you that you will have to use any of this information at your own risk. If you have an allergy to any antibiotic make sure you do not use any in the same class. For example, allergic to penicillin- don't use any antibiotic that ends with "illin" because it is a penicillin. example above is amoxicillin

hope this helps


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## txmarine6531

Maine-Marine said:


> You posted a video from patriot nurse... whats next something from hillary... I like you Marine, but I will put you on ignore


I take it you don't like her. Why not?


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## SOCOM42

My brother is an MD and a prepper, I am fortunate to have almost all the above listed in the freezer in more than sufficient long term quantities.
These and other diseases specific meds like for diabetes are as important to have on hand as guns, ammo and food, all are needed to survive.
An alternate place is from a vet, most scripts written by them can come right out of your local pharmacy.
If there is a social breakdown, there will be none available other than what is on the shelf right now.
I feel fortunate to have a channel to get what might be needed, hope all of you can find a way also.


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## Denton

tirednurse said:


> Hi, sorry I was working.
> 
> First of all as to the question of buying from other countries. NO! only buy from american sources. I have found that these other places can be selling expired medications. Also of a concern is that not all countries regulate manufacturing plants the same as the US does. Don't take the chance over a few pennies.
> 
> As to the break down I would start with the following and then work from there. You should be prepared for the basics but since you will not have a lab to figure out what bacteria you are working with it is a guessing game anyway. There are a lot of them out there but these cover the most common you will be able to treat
> 
> Azithromycin -used for respiratory infections, sinus infection, some ear infections
> Adult -500mg x 1 day, followed by 250mg x 4 days
> Child 10mg/kg x 1 day, followed by 5mg/kg x 4 days
> 
> Amoxicillin- Urinary, ear, anthrax, pneumonia, sinus, skin, respiratory
> Adult 500mg 2-3 times a day for 5-7 days
> Child 20-30mg/kg per day divided into 2 doses per day
> 
> Ciprofloxacin- urinary, sinus
> Adult 250mg twice a day for 7 days
> Child ≥1 year : 10-20 mg/kg q12hr; individual dose not to exceed 750 mg q12hr for 10-21 days
> 
> Keflex -skin wounds, urinary, ear, respiratory
> Adult 250 mg every 6 hours, ort a dose of 500 mg every 12 hours for 7 to 14 days
> Child 25-50mg/kg divided doses for 7 days
> 
> Remember these are common antiboitics and the common dosage. I can not prescribe and advise you that you will have to use any of this information at your own risk. If you have an allergy to any antibiotic make sure you do not use any in the same class. For example, allergic to penicillin- don't use any antibiotic that ends with "illin" because it is a penicillin. example above is amoxicillin
> 
> hope this helps


Absolutely!

Do you know what animal/fish antibiotics we can get at fish stores, TSC, etc.? Brand names or something? Amoxicillin= what at the store?


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## tirednurse

Denton said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> Do you know what animal/fish antibiotics we can get at fish stores, TSC, etc.? Brand names or something? Amoxicillin= what at the store?


The best place I have found is actually on Ebay. just search for fish antibiotics. as for brand names this is the one I prefer. I haven't found an issue with them yet









if you look at the medication name it will say what it is. see this one says amoxicillin. 
BTW these medications are the exact same medications as given to humans. no difference. I have compared them many times to human scripts. they are made by the same pharmaceutical company. you can look up the pills on any pill identifier site and will also come up with the same medication. No matter how it is packaged (fish, dog, cow or human) it is all the same. 
The only difference is the price and the picture on the bottle.
This bottle of 100 tabs is less than $23. enough for several treatments. If we were to get this as human medication we would pay at least this much per tablets. (another of my pet peeves)


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## Denton

Thanks a heck of a lot! We're liable to live longer with this information.


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## tirednurse

Denton said:


> Thanks a heck of a lot! We're liable to live longer with this information.


maybe, as long as people don't take what they are allergic too. 
If anyone get some type of infection before the SHTF, remember what the doctor prescribes for it and get some extra to store. then you know for sure you can treat that particular infection for yourself safely


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## Prepared One

tirednurse said:


> The best place I have found is actually on Ebay. just search for fish antibiotics. as for brand names this is the one I prefer. I haven't found an issue with them yet
> 
> View attachment 15089
> 
> 
> if you look at the medication name it will say what it is. see this one says amoxicillin.
> BTW these medications are the exact same medications as given to humans. no difference. I have compared them many times to human scripts. they are made by the same pharmaceutical company. you can look up the pills on any pill identifier site and will also come up with the same medication. No matter how it is packaged (fish, dog, cow or human) it is all the same.
> The only difference is the price and the picture on the bottle.
> This bottle of 100 tabs is less than $23. enough for several treatments. If we were to get this as human medication we would pay at least this much per tablets. (another of my pet peeves)


Thanks for the help TN. This is a subject I am sorely lacking knowledge on. Bullets and beans are easy but when it comes to medical I have been hesitant beyond the basics we all have. I have started a file and with this info I can begin to get this problem resolved.


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## Mad Trapper

My local feed store carries a lot of antibiotics. They cater to farm animals, pet birds, cats/dogs, and fish. You can get a pretty good selection. One of the birds in the store can whistle the theme song to the Andy Griffith show.

Besides being careful of allergies, also note that some store better than others. Doxycycline can become toxic and do more harm than good.


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## Maine-Marine

txmarine6531 said:


> I take it you don't like her. Why not?


here is a thread.. http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-talk/16067-biggest-mistake-we-make.html


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## Kauboy

I went through my stored medications, and found that my fish pills were still good for another year.
I was curious if there was a better way to store them that might extend the shelf life.
Someone further up mentioned keeping meds in the freezer. Does this extend the life of meds in pill form, or only beneficial for things that need to stay cold?


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## SOCOM42

Kauboy said:


> I went through my stored medications, and found that my fish pills were still good for another year.
> I was curious if there was a better way to store them that might extend the shelf life.
> Someone further up mentioned keeping meds in the freezer. Does this extend the life of meds in pill form, or only beneficial for things that need to stay cold?


My brother told me that vac packing with desiccant and freezing for the tablets will extend their life out to around 10 years, with variables.
When I get them from him, The are just out of production and in 100-250 tab factory bottles, they immediately get processed and frozen. 
Some of these meds that I have are expensive, around $150.00 a bottle.
Most refrigerated meds are temp sensitive and have a short life regardless, mostly injectables.
I repeat item storage every three years, too expensive to do annually.


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## Targetshooter

Is there a book I can get to tell me all this ? If so please pm me with the info .


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## SOCOM42

Each vacpac of meds is marked on the outside with magic marker, inside with the meds are data sheets for defining symptoms and drug application.
I am an engineer not a doctor, if there is some reason my brother cannot make it here, there is plenty of instructional material for diagnosis and dispension.
Also in stores, plenty of surgical equipment, and the typical Welsh-Allen exam room instruments.
I also have a small still for sterile water for IV use.
In some extreme cases some of these meds may need to be injected for max effect, this is brothers dept.
You might consider post SHTF getting some heroin to use as a replacement for morphine sulfate.


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## Kauboy

SOCOM42 said:


> You might consider post SHTF getting some heroin to use as a replacement for morphine sulfate.


Polite pass...
:?


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## paraquack

Antibiotics can be lifesavers in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing or as dangerous as a loaded firearm in the hands of a drunk.


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## SOCOM42

Kauboy said:


> Polite pass...
> :?


KB, that was an option if you needed to preform some sort of emergency surgery and nothing else such as Lidocaine or morphine is available to do the job.
You always need options.


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## Kauboy

Knock me out with a firm blow to the head before you ever think of injecting heroine into my veins.
I just don't think I can deal with that.


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## PCH5150

Thanks, I have looked into this before, but I need to take advantage of this!


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## Grim Reality

Kauboy: "Knock me out with a firm blow to the head before you ever think of injecting heroine 
into my veins. I just don't think I can deal with that.


While I have often appreciated your wit & wisdom regarding numerous subjects, this would not be one of them.
Movies (and TV as well) have frequently depicted individuals being slapped on the head with a six-shooter to
render them unconcious. It is possible to do so of course, but that strategy is fraught with danger!

In the news of late is the issue of CTE among football players (I'm not even going to MENTION boxers!). But
even a single blow to the head can result in numerous undesired results.

1) You're probably going to give the receiving individual a nasty scalp laceration. And the scalp bleeds
like CRAZY! Never mind that in order to knock someone out you just may have to strike them several
times. I have not seen studies of the best way to perform this intervention. I seriously doubt one has
ever been done for the auspices of the clinical environment.
2) Now you have to put in sutures. Happily, most scalp laceration (I didn't say ALL) will not infect.
3) Some individuals can develop intracranial bleeding (bleeding INSIDE the skull) which without X-rays
or, preferably an MRI, can kill the patient...or result in SEVERE neurological deficits...stroke-like 
symptoms...and you DON'T want that. The care for that sort of problem will likely be unavailable in
Post SHTF scenarios.
4) The recipient will most likely develop a sever headache. But that (in and of itself) will be the least of
the possible outcomes.

In short Don't do it! 

I'm also aware that your remark was simply being playful...but some others may think it a good idea!

As to the use of Heroin...well...it IS an opiate. It is chemically VERY much like Morphine and works in
many of the same ways. However, street drugs are notorious for being impure and the concentration is
unknown. You may relieve some pain...but the patient might also stop breathing. Individual tolerance of
Morphine is HIGHLY variable. When a junkie dies of Heroin OD it is usually because the drug has turned
off his respiratory drive...the circuit in the brain that makes you breath while you sleep. While I have the
equipment needed (intubation gear and an ambu-bag) to support someone in this situation, most will not.

Grim

And...as the initiator of this thread...all I was after (reread the original post) was a way to TEST antibiotics
from suspect suppliers to find out if they are the real deal. My life experience is in the ER.


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## Plumbum

U


Grim Reality said:


> If things get REALLY bad in times to come, antibiotics will be among the MOST valuable
> things to have. They can quite literally be Lifesavers.
> 
> However, depending upon your relationship with your doctor you might get him to write
> you a prescription for them ahead of time...or maybe he/she will not be so inclined.
> 
> In my search to locate some I have found aquarium antibiotics are the same as those
> intended for humans. But there are some which are from China / Thailand which are
> close to DIRT CHEAP!!
> 
> What concerns me is...are these companies halfway around the world actually sending
> REAL antibiotics or is it a rip-off?
> 
> Anyone know of a good way to determine this? I don't plan on getting ill and THEN
> discovering that they are worthless...nor do I want to waste my money.
> 
> Grim


Im thinking the same thing, I have also read that the stuff you use on fish are basicly the same but im not sure enough to buy any. As far as getting ripped of goes, dont worry about it. Ive bought loads of stuff from Asia and I have never been stiffed. Just buy from a big seller on ebay with good feedback.


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## MisterMills357

I would not chance it, you may get good stuff and you may get garbage.


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## Kauboy

Grim Reality said:


> I'm also aware that your remark was simply being playful...but some others may think it a good idea!


Maybe I should start using a /SARCASM tag more often. :mrgreen:

But seriously, no heroine please.


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## SOCOM42

Hey guy's, I did not intend to start anything with my post.

Further, I was referring to the use for a local anesthetic not mainlining it as a general anesthetic.

If you were ever ripped up in any manner and needed to be sewn up, most likely unless you were Rambo, got a local of Lidocaine.

All in all as an emergency alternative, just a thought, Besides it would be all gone right after SHTF.


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## tirednurse

Plumbum said:


> U
> 
> Im thinking the same thing, I have also read that the stuff you use on fish are basicly the same but im not sure enough to buy any. As far as getting ripped of goes, dont worry about it. Ive bought loads of stuff from Asia and I have never been stiffed. Just buy from a big seller on ebay with good feedback.


I answered this earlier. the medication is from the same manufacturer. You can look up the pills on any pill identifier and find out what is it. As long as it is an American made and sold medication it should be safe used correctly. those from other countries may not be regulated the same and a lot of them are expired or close to expiring medications. That is why they are so cheap. 
Someone also brought up medications bought at the feed stores. I do this also, but I know the medication and how to break them down to be used for things not packaged for. You can do the same if you did some research and figure out which are safe and which are not, but why do all that work when you can get the exact thing you need so cheap already? Doesn't make sense to me.


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## Blendingin

I find this ^^^^^ to be correct also. there are a few online pill identifiers out there so you can check yourselves. 

Getting medications from other countries is not a good idea. Safety regulations are not the same. I don't know if any of you have dogs but dog food is a good example. Many dog foods like Iams, science diet and some others are made in china. Hundreds of dogs have died due to what was put into the dog food. Poisoned the dogs. China does not have the same system we do. Most countries don't. 

Do some internet searching and get educated.


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## txmarine6531

Maine-Marine said:


> here is a thread.. http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-talk/16067-biggest-mistake-we-make.html


Ah yes, I didn't like that video too much either. While some of her videos and thoughts are out there, some vids have good info.


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## baldman

I have antibiotics I get from tractor supply company injectables and needles good deal and cheap.been using them for years one cc per hundred pounds of body weight.


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