# Really Want to start a community off grid.



## Nicoal8 (Mar 7, 2016)

Hi new to group. We are looking to start a community we are selling our 20 acres to find a better location and hopefully meet up with a few other families that think the same. WE are a very chill laid back family of 8 we have 5 girls 4-12 years of age and a little boy . , My husband is 41 and a computer engineer. I stay home and homeschool . We lived off grid on our 20 acres for a year. We are very out doories. Not super religious , we would really like to meet people that are just cool people , they see what is happening in this world and they just want out . WE would love to move to the middle of Know where but we don't want to totally isolate our children either. We do have the funds to purchase or go in on land with some people. We would be willing to meet anyone even if financially they don't have what it takes to fully take this on but are chill and can make it off grid. I am loving the idea of Minnesota , It seems to be away from some major natural disasters that could be hitting. Currently we are in Missouri.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

First off, hi!
Secondly, you should be forewarned that we get similar "start a community" posts like this about once a week, and they usually don't go over well.

Minnesota, huh?
Can you farm sufficiently up there? Can you keep warm enough without power/sufficient resources? 
When I consider an off-grid place, for long term life, I don't generally thing cold climate.
What was your reasoning for picking Minn.?


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## spork (Jan 8, 2013)

Welcome...and what he said. /\


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## Nicoal8 (Mar 7, 2016)

Hi 

Thanks for the warning about it not going over well, I am actually new to this whole idea of community living. We are considering Minnesota because I have been studying the natural disaster maps. And it seems to be that its one of the few states that are clear from a major earthquake, If yellow stone decides to explodes it is pretty clear from that . And yes winters are colder. But you can get enough wood and be just find there are a bunch of people homesteading it in that location. As well as off grid communities in Alaska and as well as Siberia if you can off grid there you can off gird any where,, LOL . However I am up for any conversation about any location if it can compare.


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## Nicoal8 (Mar 7, 2016)

The major thinking behind a community setting is our children we where only 15 minutes from a major town . And working on the property and homeschooling really left very little time to get out and socialize .. It was a real effort to make sure the children where getting out and around and seeing people. I want the comfort of being out away from the community and still allow our kids regular interaction with kids. SO many of us clearly see its just a matter of time before things totally fall apart.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

Welcome to PF from NC ,, I am with Kauboy why Minn. ? when Ky. , Tenn. , NC , any of the mid. southern states could be so much better for the long run or any southeastern state would give so much more in return .


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## Nicoal8 (Mar 7, 2016)

Because all of those States are in the path of destruction when the Madrid quake comes . And being here and Missouri there seems to be a lot of talk about that very thing happening in this life time.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

First, welcome. 

I echo what the others have said about the "group" posts, but you seem to be level headed so that's cool. 

I don't mean this in a snarky way, so if it sounds snarky, please forgive me... have you ever actually lived through a Minnesota winter or something similar (Wisconsin, North Dakota, Ontario, etc.)? Winters in the upper Midwest can be long and brutal, and growing seasons are significantly shorter. I understand they are less prone to disasters, but if a serious societal disruption (grid down, for example) crisis hits in November, and you are in Minnesota, well... you had REALLY better be well supplied.

Additionally, Minnesota has "iffy" gun laws in some cases ("military style" weapons permits, etc.).


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Nicoal8 said:


> Because all of those States are in the path of destruction when the Madrid quake comes . And being here and Missouri there seems to be a lot of talk about that very thing happening in this life time.


What part of Missouri are you in. We are in north Missouri.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

While it's certainly true that folks have managed quite well to live off-grid in colder temps, you should consider how things may be different after a cataclysmic event. If half, or more, of the country goes offline, and people have to start working for their survival, will your resources hold out? There is ample firewood available now, because few people rely on it, by comparison. How does that change once 100% of people rely on it? When you choose a climate that is not naturally conducive to human survival, but is workable, you add additional factors into your survival equation. You must have a plan for maintaining the means and methods to ensure your survival on all fronts.
That boils down to 3 primary things:
1. Shelter
2. Water
3. Food

"Shelter" encompasses all things necessary to keep you safe from the elements. That means walls, a roof, heat, shade, whatever it takes to make the area livable.
By choosing a cold climate, you are adding the necessity to constantly maintain body temperature.
Your primary resource for doing so will be a fire. Your fuel will be wood.
Now, you've created a situation for yourself where your fuel could be used for ALL of your primary survival concerns. First, keep warm. Second, boil water. Third, cook food.
By choosing a colder climate, you've increased your necessity for a natural resource that EVERYBODY else will be seeking too.

Coming up with a plan to handle that will indeed require a community. They will be needed just to protect your most precious resource for survival. Of course, they will also be consuming it, so there is a trade off.

Choosing a climate better suited for human life, that doesn't require consumption of a resource to maintain, would help to alleviate some stress that the situation will already be full of. Being able to grow food is another large benefit, as it can further diminish the need for wood(no *need* to cook a carrot, as an example), and can even serve as a combustible material after harvest(like corn stalks).

I'm sorry to rain on the idea, but your choice for a cold climate does not sound appealing, and you won't likely find anyone willing to take this risk with you on an internet forum.
At least not right off the bat. It would prove much better in the long term if you formed relationships with folks first, and only then extended such an offer to them.


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## Nicoal8 (Mar 7, 2016)

I have lived in Iowa for winter for a few years and I did grow up in Illinois. You don't sound snarky. And seriously we bought property and are dealing with a serious issue over here in Missouri over our property and neighbors and police and we have been doing Podcast interviews to get our story out there, Missouri is insane . The things that have happened to us because of the corruption in this state is NUTS, we are located about 45 minutes from Springfield. And what I found from coming forward with our story is a lot of people are dealing with government corruption in Missouri . A lot of small town good old boy clubs going on. I just want out of here, ..


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## Nicoal8 (Mar 7, 2016)

I had planned to meet people and get to know them once people said , Hey yea I would love to look at that idea. This was not a LETS GO GET PROPERTY together post as in tomorrow. LOL I agree with your points on weather. I did come to Minnesota over the weekend. That is why I said I am up for conversation about other locations. I also came to the community idea over the weekend. We spent a year off grid on our property and now I want to go back .. We loved living off our land and homesteading . I want that life but to not be so isolated .. So this post is really just to get a feel for what people are thinking and if there are people that are like that sounds great. I have run across a lot of people that want a community but its a lot of HIPPY types . And that just isn't who we are . I have not come a cross just down to earth normal families that see this country is going to hell in a hand basket LOL and want to survive.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Welcome to the boards!
Might consider moving away from Minnesota. 
It's a big country and it doesn't hurt to see what other states may have to offer.


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## Nicoal8 (Mar 7, 2016)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> What part of Missouri are you in. We are in north Missouri.


We are near Marshfield about 45 minutes from Springfield


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## Auntie (Oct 4, 2014)

Before considering any state you should check the homeschooling, gun, water (can you legally collect and store it) and off the grid laws. Some states and or counties require that you have electricity and running water when there are children involved.

http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/minnesota.pdf



> A person providing instruction to a child must file an "initial report" to the
> Superintendent (1) by October 1st of the first school year after a child has reached age seven, (2) within
> 15 days of withdrawing a child from public school, or (3) by October 1
> st when moving into a new school
> ...


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## ride free (Feb 9, 2016)

Minnesota may not have earth quakes, but we sure have tornadoes. And cold, cold winters. You will spend a lot of time gathering wood for heating and cooking. When it's -20 degrees, you go through some wood. When it's -50, you go through it that much faster. We do have vegetables that grow here in the summer. But if you have a failed crop one summer, due to unseasonably cold weather, what are you gonna do? There is a nuclear power plant in the central part of the state. It'd be best to be west of that.

On the other hand, few people are going to be moving towards Minnesota, if the SHTF. There will be lots heading south. Good luck in your plans. Be careful who you reveal your location to. There are a lot of wierdos out there.


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## Nicoal8 (Mar 7, 2016)

Ya'll have some great points. LOL that is what you get for picking a location on the spur of the moment. I will do some more research . And Minnesota isn't sound so great. But for the record I did say I was up for talking about the location.  Also thanks for the kindness, I didn't hear snarky or mean comments. I appreciate that..


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

KANSAS go to kansas


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Valentine, Nebraska.

Google it. 

Perfect area for a survival community, as rural as can be, plenty of water, if you find the right area crops work... check it out, that's my gift to you good people today.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

nope look south Kansas I said.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Welcome from N. Texas. The commune idea sounds like a lot of fun. I will keep an eye peeled for anybody who might want to join.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Welcome from Texas. You will find a lot of good info here and most of what was said here in this thread is good advise. While there is safety in numbers and can increase your odds of survival I would add a word of caution when looking for people to join up with. You must be able to trust them, not only with your life but your kids as well. That can be an arduous task.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

MN has some beautiful country, but a sub tropical climate would be a better bet IMO. Besides, they talk funny up there. Anyways, welcome from South Texas!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Nicoal8 said:


> Also thanks for the kindness, I didn't hear snarky or mean comments. I appreciate that..


The lack of snark is likely due to your openness. Others who've brought this idea to us are already dead set on doing it their way, and aren't interested in hearing advice. They come here with delusions of grandeur and omnipotent leadership, and have their bubbles promptly bursted. You, on the other hand, came in with the perfect attitude. I hope you find what you're looking for.


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## ride free (Feb 9, 2016)

Talk funny??! You Betcha we doooo. I don't think that Minnesota is a bad location, as stated above, everyone is gonna want to move south. So this state will probably empty out a bit. We have lakes, rivers streams, woods, prairies, caves in the south eastern part of the state. We have a lot to offer. You can't grow lemons, oranges, etc. here. You can have blueberries, cranberries, wild rice, apples, pears, plums. Moose, deer, bear, beaver. But you have to be aware of the down side. You will be cutting a lot - A LOT - of wood. How well you insulate your home is going to have an impact. But I love having a natural freezer outside my door in the winter. I make the mashed potatoes and put them outside for about 1/2 hour and they are ready to be turned into potato dumplings. You can put the whole left-over turkey, still in the roaster, outside. 

I the winter, you would have to carry water to all of your livestock, if you're living off the grid. You have to take extra measures to be sure your stock is drinking enough. Sometimes that means heating the water a little, to tempt them to drink. Or adding some salt water to the hay, so they are thirsty enough. Just some thoughts.

I would like to stay, but my Farmer Guy is tired of the cold winters, so we will head south when we retire. I'll keep in mind what you say about Missouri. Good luck.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Welcome from the Florida/Georgia border.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Welcome, but this Texan ain't moving up north.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

ride free said:


> Talk funny??! You Betcha we doooo. I don't think that Minnesota is a bad location, as stated above, everyone is gonna want to move south. So this state will probably empty out a bit. We have lakes, rivers streams, woods, prairies, caves in the south eastern part of the state. We have a lot to offer. You can't grow lemons, oranges, etc. here. You can have blueberries, cranberries, wild rice, apples, pears, plums. Moose, deer, bear, beaver. But you have to be aware of the down side. You will be cutting a lot - A LOT - of wood. How well you insulate your home is going to have an impact. But I love having a natural freezer outside my door in the winter. I make the mashed potatoes and put them outside for about 1/2 hour and they are ready to be turned into potato dumplings. You can put the whole left-over turkey, still in the roaster, outside.
> 
> I the winter, you would have to carry water to all of your livestock, if you're living off the grid. You have to take extra measures to be sure your stock is drinking enough. Sometimes that means heating the water a little, to tempt them to drink. Or adding some salt water to the hay, so they are thirsty enough. Just some thoughts.
> 
> I would like to stay, but my Farmer Guy is tired of the cold winters, so we will head south when we retire. I'll keep in mind what you say about Missouri. Good luck.


I've been once, on a camping trip when a 17. Got within a mile or so of the border while canoeing some of the rivers and lakes. Only bad thing was the mosquitoes. They would rise from the grass like a black fog as the sun set. Like tiny versions of the aliens from Pitch Black.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

Welcome from SC.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Nicoal8 said:


> Hi new to group. We are looking to start a community. We are selling our 20 acres to find a better location and hopefully meet up with a few other families that think the same. WE would love to move to the middle of Know where but we don't want to totally isolate our children either. We do have the funds to purchase or go in on land with some people. We would be willing to meet anyone even if financially they don't have what it takes to fully take this on but are chill and can make it off grid. I am loving the idea of Minnesota , It seems to be away from some major natural disasters that could be hitting. Currently we are in Missouri.


I always plug the area I live as a prepper community potential because it is small and isolated, still technically linked via rail, air and paved routes, dirt, river and snowmobile. There is potential for development due to a possiblity of a multibillion dollar mining development 100km to the North. The area doesn't have much warm weather though only a few months a year. It is also a gateway further North. Personally, if I had a bunch of cash to spare I would do Latin America as it provides for growing all year round with ease. Property costs are really really cheap up here, not quite deteroit cheap but about 25000 USD for a house. There is tons of crownland up here.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Gr...d=0ahUKEwinjpGR3rDLAhVJJx4KHRpTDnoQ8gEIgwEwDg

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Na...0x4d68164e77d42029:0x286ac6c1d114634a!6m1!1e1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenstone,_Ontario
Nakina / Aroland | Ontario Highway 11 Blog

Note there is electrical, internet, etc.. all available in town. There is also an elementary school complex, that is half catholic half public. Highschool is 60km away about 36 miles.

It is the middle of one of the biggest tectonic plates on some of the oldest stone in the world. So no quake chance at all.

http://www.sfu.ca/~acalvert/Web Site/Research/Archean Tectonics/archean.htm

http://www.geologyontario.mndmf.gov.on.ca/mndmfiles/pub/data/imaging/M5125/M5125.pdf
http://www.geologyontario.mndmf.gov.on.ca/mndmfiles/pub/data/imaging/P1535/P1535.pdf
http://www.geologyontario.mndmf.gov.on.ca/mndmfiles/pub/data/imaging/P3449/P3449.pdf
http://geogratis.gc.ca/api/en/nrcan-rncan/ess-sst/0a388252-91eb-5225-bdf8-906d488f0ebb.html

Surface

http://files.ontario.ca/environment-and-energy/parks-and-protected-areas/mnr00_bcr0106.pdf
http://www.geologyontario.mndmf.gov.on.ca/mndmfiles/pub/data/imaging/NOEGTS019/NOEGTS019.pdf

The northern transcontiental rail line is actually an offroad trail these days it stretches from the old radar station at the twin lakes in nakina all the way beyond the now defunct and abandoned interceptor airfield at pagawa airbase. (Both former US military bases in Canada)
http://www.cnr-in-ontario.com/Datab...nID=6&dateStart=1924-01-01&dateEnd=1924-12-31



> WE are a very chill laid back family of 8 we have 5 girls 4-12 years of age and a little boy . , My husband is 41 and a computer engineer. I stay home and homeschool. We lived off grid on our 20 acres for a year. We are very out doories. Not super religious , we would really like to meet people that are just cool people , they see what is happening in this world and they just want out .


Sounds like St. Louis is calling you 

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There are a bunch of sites out here I think would be good for a little retreat outside of town. Not just the ones I like but this one might be good for preppers as an out of town camp area.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.537323,-86.167255,15z


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

And Will recommends as the pepper community of the month ............ St. Louis.

Go figure huh?


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> First, welcome.
> 
> I echo what the others have said about the "group" posts, but you seem to be level headed so that's cool.
> 
> ...


Does Michigan count as a brutal winter state ?
If so,I'm in.
I still have 4 longnecks stuck in a snowbank chilling.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> And Will recommends as the pepper community of the month ............ St. Louis.
> 
> Go figure huh?


Lots of BLM movement there with extreme racial tension.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Yes but you can't get much cooler than blues 





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_blues_(music)

It was a bit of a joke.


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

bigwheel said:


> Welcome from N. Texas. The commune idea sounds like a lot of fun. I will keep an eye peeled for anybody who might want to join.


Especially if "Free Love" is included!!


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

ride free said:


> Talk funny??! You Betcha we doooo. I don't think that Minnesota is a bad location, as stated above, everyone is gonna want to move south. So this state will probably empty out a bit.


Especially after Yellowstone blows up! :glee:


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Well, say what you want about St. Louis and Ferguson & all that other stuff... it's the only town in America where you can get a Ted Drewes Concrete. And YES, they ARE that good...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> it's the only town in America where you can get a Ted Drewes *Concrete*. And YES, they ARE that good...


I'm forced to assume you meant "Custard", and that you are likely on a phone. :mrgreen:


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

Considering climate, cold and warm can be good. In the north if wood is avaialable you can have heat and hot water. A farm pond and and ice house has refirigeration through fall. You will want a heating stove and a cook stove.

If you can find a place on a hillside a cold spring besides pure water can also serve as refrigeration, a milkhouse. A large rootcellar/ meat cellar should also be planned for.

Al of the above is off grid. My grandparents farm had two cold springs feeding large cistrens well above, that gravity fed to lower cistrens near the farm buildings. They fed house barns and milkshed. You have to keep the cistrens and screens clean, rodent proof. Cold spring water gravity fed all year

Large animals were kept in the basement of the barn and their heat rose. We had cows Oxen and draft horses. You need the old equipment to work them and a way to make hay/store for winter. Smaller animals had sheds/coops, pigs/sheep/goats.

Figure on a blacksmithshop/repairshop off grid, handtools, metal stock to forge. Make your nails hingges and screws.Taps and dies

All sorts of hand tools, sycles, sythes, saws:crosscut, ripping, felling and the same for carpentry, files to sharpen the saws and rest. Wood Augers/braces and bits. Metal drills braces and bitsChisels from slicks to 1/4 woodworking. Mallets, sledges, axes, hammers mauls wedges. Chains cables and ropes, block and tackles/chain falls. Wagons plows harrows (horse/ox drawn). Butcher tools, canning tools, milking and butter making. Means to make splits for shingles. Hayforks and manure forks flat/pointed shovels, hand pick, pry bars, hoes potato forks cultivating forks.

Treadle sewing maching, fabric, threads, needles, sewing supplies, loom, knitting supplies.









We also trapped fished and hunted. So selection of each equipment. Snoeshoes traps. snares, fishing/icefishing, gun for hunting and protection.

Gandma and Pa had 11 kids and they were constantly at work. I've lost count of my cousins, but they/we still have the farm


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> I'm forced to assume you meant "Custard", and that you are likely on a phone. :mrgreen:


Andy's refers to their frozen custards as concretes. There is one in Tyler.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Minnesota huh, with limited sources of energy if SHTF occurs...

Kentucky, NC, TN ect. warmer with a .01% chance of a natural disaster in the immediate area per year vs 100% guarantee of deep freezing and short growing seasons in Minnesota.

I'd consider a little further South.


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## I'd_last_a_day (May 12, 2015)

OP sounds like money isn't an issue at all. Are you talking about having a state of the art well water system installed, composting toilets, killer solar power, etc? Just wondering if you would even require streams. 

Man I'd love to live off grid in AZ with a nice well set up, the scenery, the off roading, etc!! Of course not exactly great for crops lol.


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