# Surburban prepping #2



## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Everyone has their own opinion of what will happen to cause the SHTF scenario. It makes no difference what the cause is, the result is the same. Disaster.

So you have some food stocked up. You have enough to last you a week, maybe a month or two. Some have a year's supply. What are ya gonna do when it runs out? Can you feed yourself after that or are you just hoping the system will start back up? What if it doesn't? Will ya just try to take from others like the little twits want to do? Have you even considered this?

Well here is something worthwhile to consider no matter where you live. Gardening. Even apartment dwellers can do this. I know because I did it. Not long after I moved to Dallas, I was living in a singles community of apartments. The average age there was 23, I was 29. In the city, in a huge area that was nothing but apartments. I had never in my life grown anything, but that year I grew tomato's in a 5 gallon bucket. I can't tell you why I did it but I did. Even to this day, what I know about gardening you can fit on the head of a pin and still have room. Fast forward to 30+ years.

A couple of years ago we tried a raised bed garden. What a disaster. We had no pollinators and it turned out to be a feast for the bugs. We got nothing. I don't give up easily so we are doing this again but differently. I am sharing this story because you need to think about this and how you would go about doing it.

I am now working on attracting bees. The bees I want to attract are solitary bees and these are nonaggressive. They do at least 3x the work as honeybees but without the hassle. You can even buy the cocoons online. You can find out how to attract pollinators at your local nursery. I kinda like Calloways. These plants work. I have seen some beneficial pollinators recently even though it's the end of the season for them.

We are also using several methods of gardening. I had never heard of waist high raised bed gardens until my wife told me about them. She sent me a link and I downloaded the plans. About this same time my wife found the following VegTrug Patio Garden | Gardeners.com. We talked about it and bought one. This one holds 15 sq ft of dirt. I built it in about an hour. Last weekend I hauled in dirt by the bag. Wore my old butt out but I got it done. In it we now have 2 cabbage plants, 2 tomato plants, 2 broccoli plants and 2 red pepper plants. I didn't want to start too big and this is the fall planting season. When I make this work then I will custom build one to fit the area we decide, made out of cedar.

Another thing we will be doing is container gardening. Small pots, medium pots, large pots. I will end up using all types. This is where I will grow carrots, various types of lettuce, beans, blueberrys (I hear these are the toughest to grow because they need real acidic soil) and raspberry bushes. The raspberry bushes I will be planting out front once I get them going nicely. But for now, we are doing them in containers. One other container I will be using starting in February will be a potato bag. I have read a lot of good things about them. You can also grow potato's in a container of some sort. There are quite a bit of youtube video's on this subject.

Bottom line, you have to learn how to feed yourself if you want a better chance of making it.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

If you've never tried this before, start small, grow something you will enjoy eating. Get a feel for it. It's really not hard. For those of you who aren't sure or don't know how there is lot's of help available. You will find a lot of video's on youtube. Buy from and utilize your local nursery. They are always willing to help. Most area's have local ag extension office that are also willing to help.

Starting this weekend, I will post a few pictures of what I have started.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

I really like your posts Inceptor, good stuff, awareness is a great tool to help people get prepared - I still to this day get the feeling of "well darn, isn't that something" when I hear a new approach to an old idea, or a new idea in general.

I like the waist height garden boxes, my old man put a bunch up on the roof of his house (my folks live in NYC in brick attached single family homes) and it is a novel idea, better on the back, and customization options galore (and rapidly deployable if you needed it to be).

Can't say I know a thing about working with bees, other than the work I put into killing/running away from them lol. Raw honey definitely helps with allergy resistance - not sure if it is broscience but the South American troops in the various countries I rotated to down there swore by eating it you would be less likely to get allergies from local flora, maybe it's placebo (I don't suffer from allergies TBH) but it definitely helped those that were prone.

As far as your idea to build out of cedar, I had done some research on this when it killed my tomato plants (put red cedar wood chips in my mulch, apparently it "locks up nitrogen"), so I am not trying to insult you if I am beating a dead horse since you may already know (or know more) than I do. Most "Cedar" that is available, i.e. Western Red Cedar/Cedarwood/Aromatic Cedar is typically actual Juniper trees (Juniperius Virginiana), which can give the color/smell of what actual Cedar is supposed to be.

By smell it will repel some of the more "pest" garden bugs - beetles, roaches, certain species of ants, certain ticks, fleas, some butterflies/moths (more or less the pupa/catepillars) but that is as long as the essential oils, one of which being Cedrol - a type of alchohol that is similar to Cypress and Oregano essential oils, is present it will deter those types of insects. That is of course not the only essential oil in Conifers (cedar/juniper oil), but Cedrol is an insecticide, but also a carcinogen (here is some reading on that: Exposure to an environment containing the aromatic red cedar, Juniperus virginiana: procarcinogenic, enzyme-inducing and insecticidal effects). Another study of Cedrol is that it will attract pregnant female mosquitoes (Cedrol: a naturally occurring bait for malaria-spreading pregnant mosquitoes | Science News SciGuru.org). It does not do anything for snails or slugs, but they might not like crawling across the wood. If you use it in mulch, it will attract the usual dank-soil inhabitants like earwigs, silverfish, and the like.

Redcedar can also suffer from fungal blights, as well as insect infestations such as bagworms and spider mites (HGIC 2056 Juniper Diseases & Insect Pests : Extension : Clemson University : South Carolina) however I think that study was towards the actual tree, not sliced boards, but it would suck if your Redcedar garden boxes caught a blight or attracted a load of malaria/zika carrying mosquitos.

I am not a chemist (I know there is one on the board) so I couldn't tell you how volatile cedrol is, or how it presents itself by weight, but that is some background about it. Probably too much information, and I may have digested it wrong, but some of it was from memory and tracking sources.

I used planters/pots to spout my seeds, never tried keeping a plant in there, definitely something to look into, especially to reproduce slightly higher pH content soil for more acidic-liking plants like you had mentioned. I played around with hydroponics too, it is a bit of a pain as far as investment and time to get into, but you can keep them going all year round, and it is compact/easily scaleable and deployable if necessary. I know the 'broscience'/internet horror stories is that the DEA will kick in your door if you buy a hydroponic setup or KN03 fertilizer, but it did not happen to me.

Other worthwhile skills to learn as far as food preparation is drying/dehydrating (can buy something for that), natural drying, natural smoking, canning are all worthwhile investments. My new favorite is making deer sausage (no bag limit on does in TN when I was there), smoking it then curing in brine and either jarring it (slightly off-tasting) or sealing them - I'd have those setting for sure as well as jerky, and canning/jarring (apparently there is a distinction according to my mother-in-law) my fruits and veggies. Keeping livestock is way beyond my scope but I have eaten dog before, and you best believe I'm shooting Fido(s) when I see them, or any other sustienance hunting I can do.

I'm not an ecologist but you figure after humanity's demise, wildlife we re-encroach urban centers and small towns. There is also fish and birds, pigeon is edible too, as are squirrels, rabbits and almost anything else.

Wasn't trying to derail your thread - I get into these brain-dumps when talking about this stuff, good times.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I think I posted before, I grow, potatoes, cabbage, carrots, wax beans and some cherry tomatoes.

I can 1/2 to 3/4 of the veggies, and just eat the tomatoes.

A few herbs that are dried. all are non GMO and are basically seed crop if SHTF occurs.

If threat levels rises, all will be seed crop for the next year, they will compliment the seeds stored in the freezer.

I don't need the produce right away, plenty of food stores as is, but they add to the variety.

Garden would be full size in the second year post SHTF.


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## preponadime (Jun 15, 2016)

Great post inceptor. 

We have been growing in raised beds for more than 20 years now took a couple years to figure it all out. This year our garden was about 15 acres if we include the feed crops for the animals the family food plot was close to 3 acres including the corn and wheat.

My wife cans and or dries most of the crop but we do get a lot of fresh vegetables during the summer months. We also use green houses during the winter to grow salad type greens and start next years plants like tomatoes. My son in law has bees up here but I'm not too keen on them I just tell him to keep in the fields I do like the honey.

Potatoes can be grown in raised beds and you can get a ton of them if you plant the starter seed at the bottom of your box when the leaves have 4 or 5 on them just cover them keep doing this until you figure you have enough then after the leaves die back dig down and get the new potatoes off the top you will find the largest on the bottom.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> Wasn't trying to derail your thread - I get into these brain-dumps when talking about this stuff, good times.


Information is what I thrive on. And I really like discussing an interesting topic. I am really new at this. All I can tell you about cedar mulch is it does seem to keep the bugs away from the house. Many sites build and sell cedar raised bed gardens as well as the waist high variety and beekeepers use the wood chips to keep bugs away from the hive. So far, I have not read anything that says it's harmful to gardening. But I will keep researching as I go along. As to all bugs, I have no idea, but I intend to find out as the situation arises. We will try our best not to use pesticides as most are general killers and will kill bees, butterflies and other beneficial insects. That's why I intend to utilize all the area resources I have found.

As far as mosquito's go, I'm not sure. I do know places around me sell stuff like* Natural CedarCide®* which is supposed to repel mosquitoes. I have never tried it. In Texas, the mosquitoes fly in squadrons and are nearly as big as an aircraft. I have considered using anti-aircraft weapons on them but can't find any at the local Cabela's.

Sprouting my own plants is next on my list. Although this is the fall growing season, about all I will try will be salad stuff starting off. I have the stuff to start but haven't yet.

We just started learning about canning. The Ball website hints you should start with jams. We have a variety of blueberry and peach jams at the moment. We next tried our hand at pickle making. They say to let the pickles set for 4-6 weeks. The wife has set the 4 week mark to open the first jar. That will be this weekend. The next one will be at the 6 week mark. This has all been water bath canning. I'm considering picking up some stuff at the Farmers Market to try my hand at pressure canning. That way I should be better prepared after the spring planting.

Dehydrating is on my list also. But that's a little farther down the road.

The bees I'm talking about are non-aggressive. Nor do they make honey. Oh, and local honey is good for the allergies. From the research I have done, there are actually 4000 different types of bees. The honeybee is not native to North America and were brought in from Europe by the early settlers because of the honey. No, the bees I'm bringing in and/or attracting will leave you alone. Or at least will until you try to crush one. Most don't even venture farther than 300 feet from their lair. They live in tubes. We have small to middling kids around us so I don't want to cause any harm.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Another great post @inceptor

I too use raised beds for my garden. I currently have two. I also use pots for some veggies. I currently have strawberries, tomatoes, jalapeno's, squash (yellow and italian), garlic, onions and edamame. Since my containers aren't really big I use the bagged veggie soil.

Very interesting stuff about the bees. I'm going to look into it.

I was looking into garden pest control and came across this that some of you might find interesting.


> ladybugs that you can purchase for your garden are trapped in the wild, and that these ladybugs can carry parasites and diseases that will infect ladybugs native to your area.


Why You Shouldn't Buy Ladybugs for Natural Pest Control in your Garden : TreeHugger


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Sasquatch said:


> Another great post @inceptor
> 
> I too use raised beds for my garden. I currently have two. I also use pots for some veggies. I currently have strawberries, tomatoes, jalapeno's, squash (yellow and italian), garlic, onions and edamame. Since my containers aren't really big I use the bagged veggie soil.
> 
> ...


Wow! Thanks for the info. If you lived close by and not in a 3rd world country, I'd buy ya lunch :tango_face_grin:

ETA: I do have onion sets and garlic on the way. The raspberry/blueberries will ship 8/26.

I'm also going to grow ginger too, along with other herbs. I have a whole station built just for the herbs.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

inceptor said:


> Wow! Thanks for the info. If you lived close by and not in a 3rd world country, I'd buy ya lunch :tango_face_grin:
> 
> ETA: I do have onion sets and garlic on the way. The raspberry/blueberries will ship 8/26.
> 
> I'm also going to grow ginger too, along with other herbs. I have a whole station built just for the herbs.


My poor state. We weren't always this way. Let this be a lesson to the rest of you.

In defense of my state at least we have a year round growing season.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Sasquatch said:


> My poor state. We weren't always this way. Let this be a lesson to the rest of you.
> 
> In defense of my state at least we have a year round growing season.


 @Sasquatch you should really move to Texas. I don't think we have one here yet? Or is it yeti? Never mind, it's to hot here for yeti. So a Sasquatch would be nice.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Thanks for the info @inceptor. I have recently begun gardening as well, even tho my reputation for killing plants, even fake ones, is known far and wide. This year I started with tomatoes and peppers both in buckets and in the limited ground I have available and had a pretty good first go of it. Enough tomatoes that I was giving them away and I am still getting peppers! Next year I make adjustments and will expand the operation including automatic irrigation, a means of dehydrating, and canning. I depend on others for information and am always learning.


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

inceptor said:


> A couple of years ago we tried a raised bed garden. What a disaster. We had no pollinators and it turned out to be a feast for the bugs. We got nothing. I don't give up easily so we are doing this again but differently. I am sharing this story because you need to think about this and how you would go about doing it.
> 
> I am now working on attracting bees. The bees I want to attract are solitary bees and these are nonaggressive. They do at least 3x the work as honeybees but without the hassle. You can even buy the cocoons online. You can find out how to attract pollinators at your local nursery. I kinda like Calloways. These plants work. I have seen some beneficial pollinators recently even though it's the end of the season for them.


You can plant various flowers alongside your veggies that are known to attract pollinators. If you plant them, they will come!



> We are also using several methods of gardening. I had never heard of waist high raised bed gardens until my wife told me about them. She sent me a link and I downloaded the plans. About this same time my wife found the following VegTrug Patio Garden | Gardeners.com. We talked about it and bought one. This one holds 15 sq ft of dirt. I built it in about an hour. Last weekend I hauled in dirt by the bag. Wore my old butt out but I got it done. In it we now have 2 cabbage plants, 2 tomato plants, 2 broccoli plants and 2 red pepper plants. I didn't want to start too big and this is the fall planting season. When I make this work then I will custom build one to fit the area we decide, made out of cedar.


I have built vegtrugs from scratch. (I have a thread about this in the gardening sub-forum). That being said, I noticed that DR Power currently has an exceptional sale on VegTrugs and accessories. Better price than I have ever seen for these!



> Another thing we will be doing is container gardening. Small pots, medium pots, large pots. I will end up using all types. This is where I will grow carrots, various types of lettuce, beans, blueberrys (I hear these are the toughest to grow because they need real acidic soil) and raspberry bushes. The raspberry bushes I will be planting out front once I get them going nicely. But for now, we are doing them in containers. One other container I will be using starting in February will be a potato bag. I have read a lot of good things about them. You can also grow potato's in a container of some sort. There are quite a bit of youtube video's on this subject.
> 
> Bottom line, you have to learn how to feed yourself if you want a better chance of making it.


I suggest looking into ROOT POUCHES vs plastic, ceramic, or other pots. The root pouches are reusable, cheaper than post, and allow for air pruning, which increases root strength and more robust plants. Most sizes available on Amazon *HERE*.

Root pouches also make it much easier to move your plants....especially when you want to protect them from a cold snap or frost.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

@SittingElf thanks, I had never heard of the root bags. I will be picking some up. I may do the rasberry bush in it for starters.

When you built your veg trug, what type of wood did you use?


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## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

I used pine. Regular stuff from Home Depot. The hard part was getting the angles right.

Here's the THREAD I posted on the build....


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

@inceptor, consider planting 'butterfly bush' to attract bees. I have two, they're kind of of scraggly looking but utilitarian. They're cold hardy, and will get quite large (I cut mine back heavily every winter). The mid summer blossoms will attract every type of bug, bee, and butterfly you can think of, even hummingbirds come.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

sideKahr said:


> @inceptor, consider planting 'butterfly bush' to attract bees. I have two, they're kind of of scraggly looking but utilitarian. They're cold hardy, and will get quite large (I cut mine back heavily every winter). The mid summer blossoms will attract every type of bug, bee, and butterfly you can think of, even hummingbirds come.


Thanks, gonna have to look into that one.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Deleted: pictures didn't post


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

I told you I would post pictures. Here is our Veg Trug.









Here is the stand I built for growing herbs. Right now I just have some plants on it until we get them replanted and figure out where to put them.









This is my first time trying to start from seed. The rocks in the tray are for the bees. A bee will drown if not given a place to land near water. This had been out for maybe 10 minutes and a bee landed in the water. I got it out but I don't know if I made it time to save it or not.









These are lettuce and beans that are waiting on the root pouches to arrive. BTW, thanks @SittingElf :vs_closedeyes:


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Hubs does the raised beds. He grows tomatoes, potatoes, cabbage, lettuce, zucchini, squash, eggplant, broccoli, cucumbers. Potatoes are a great idea because they store well without having to preserved and they're good for filling the belly. A watchdog is a good idea in order to keep critters and in a bad situation, other people out of the garden.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Gardening update. 

I started with fall vegetables slowly so I could start learning. I've made a few mistakes but all in all, it's going well. Being in Texas, we have a longer growing season.

As you can see in the pictures above, if you stand on your head, the wife decided to buy a Veg Trug. It was real easy to put together and didn't take long. That's turned out to work quite well. The bugs did attack my cabbage and broccoli but I managed to get rid of them. At least so far. I pulled one cabbage plant and one broccoli plant and replaced each with another cool weather plant, brussel sprouts. I left one each of the original plants in case the bugs got hungry. Well, it seems the 2 remaining plants are making a comeback. I still plan on building 2 12" deep waist high raised beds for the spring planting. Part of that will be vertical growing. 

The tomato's are starting to come out and the peppers are getting big. With the grow bags @Sitting Elf recommended I started lettuce in one and 3 with green beans. I like the grow bags :tango_face_grin: Those are doing well and I got to thinking about mostly container gardening. Since there's not even enough room to park a car in my back yard I've decided to split between waist high raised beds and containers.

Doing my research, I found out that lettuce will grow nearly year round so I'm building a waist high raised bed just for that this weekend. That one will be 4' x 2' and 4" deep. It will probably be just under 2' wide as I'm only buying one 1x6x12.

For those interested, I found an organization that can provide a wide variety of info. It's The Master Gardener Association. The offer classes and festivals, help by dropping by the office, by email or even by phone. If they don't have an answer ready for you, they will find someone who can help. I have utilized this and it's great.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

While promoting gardening lets promote trees. I hope to make it "home" to Ireland or just be there when SHTF and the various trees we have growing there will not only provide for us; but for several others.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

inceptor said:


> Doing my research, I found out that lettuce will grow nearly year round so I'm building a waist high raised bed just for that this weekend.


Being in north Mississippi, we too have extended growing seasons. A big part of my prepping seed stores, includes the cool season vegetables that can really extend the season... first in the spring & then now in the fall as the other garden crops shut down. I store all sorts of peas & greens for such early & late growing. Keep in mind, as a prepper, lettuce can be rather low in nutrients & calories, so I stick with the greens such as kale, mustard, turnip & collards.

Right now in my gardens I am pulling up the old stuff & replacing with greens in some beds, but most of my beds are being tilled & seeded with Austrian Winter Peas. IMO, those peas should be an integral part of any garden but especially for preppers. We have to learn again how to grow without running to the store for sacks of fertilizer. Many folks plant the winter peas now & in many climates, they will stay green all winter. The leaves taste wonderful & it just makes me feel good to see a green garden in the middle of the winter. They don't grow bigger once it gets real cold but come spring, they will explode with growth. The peas are legumes, so they will put nitrogen back into the soil & in spring when ready to plant again, you till the plants in for green manure. Around here, lots of folks plant the winter peas as food crops for deer & other wildlife. My chickens love the plants in winter.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

stowlin said:


> While promoting gardening lets promote trees.


Just ordered 20 more apple trees & this fall planted 8 persimmon trees. I have over 150 fruit & nut trees & they are an integral part of my prepping plans... plus my retirement plans.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

******* said:


> Being in north Mississippi, we too have extended growing seasons. A big part of my prepping seed stores, includes the cool season vegetables that can really extend the season... first in the spring & then now in the fall as the other garden crops shut down. I store all sorts of peas & greens for such early & late growing. Keep in mind, as a prepper, lettuce can be rather low in nutrients & calories, so I stick with the greens such as kale, mustard, turnip & collards.
> 
> Right now in my gardens I am pulling up the old stuff & replacing with greens in some beds, but most of my beds are being tilled & seeded with Austrian Winter Peas. IMO, those peas should be an integral part of any garden but especially for preppers. We have to learn again how to grow without running to the store for sacks of fertilizer. Many folks plant the winter peas now & in many climates, they will stay green all winter. The leaves taste wonderful & it just makes me feel good to see a green garden in the middle of the winter. They don't grow bigger once it gets real cold but come spring, they will explode with growth. The peas are legumes, so they will put nitrogen back into the soil & in spring when ready to plant again, you till the plants in for green manure. Around here, lots of folks plant the winter peas as food crops for deer & other wildlife. My chickens love the plants in winter.


We eat salad nearly everyday. That's why the salad garden.

I have been in Texas for well over 30 yrs but didn't grow up on greens. Now the wife is a native and loves greens. This may be a bit too shallow for turnip greens but I'll probably look into the others just for her.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

inceptor said:


> We eat salad nearly everyday. That's why the salad garden.


Yes, sir... grow what you eat. My comments were based upon prepping, where you have to survive on what you grow. IMO, greens pack more nutrition.



inceptor said:


> I have been in Texas for well over 30 yrs but didn't grow up on greens. Now the wife is a native and loves greens. This may be a bit too shallow for turnip greens but I'll probably look into the others just for her.


Being in the deep south, I was raised on greens. If you want to grow turnip greens, I suggest seven top. It does not produce that large edible root but is grown just for the leaves. I would think they would be perfect for shallow beds.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

stowlin said:


> While promoting gardening lets promote trees. I hope to make it "home" to Ireland or just be there when SHTF and the various trees we have growing there will not only provide for us; but for several others.


Is there any truth to the often mentioned rumor that there are more Irish folks in Noo Yawk city than can be found on the Emerald Ilse?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

******* said:


> Being in the deep south, I was raised on greens. If you want to grow turnip greens, I suggest seven top. It does not produce that large edible root but is grown just for the leaves. I would think they would be perfect for shallow beds.


Neither my wife or I had heard of this. It's not sold at our usual places but I ordered some seeds anyhow. Thanks :vs_closedeyes:


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

bigwheel said:


> Is there any truth to the often mentioned rumor that there are more Irish folks in Noo Yawk city than can be found on the Emerald Ilse?


Naa...

NYC 8.4 million
Ireland 4.6 million

Guess its possible I know some of my family's heritage moved through there but like me - they ran for it.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

stowlin said:


> While promoting gardening lets promote trees. I hope to make it "home" to Ireland or just be there when SHTF and the various trees we have growing there will not only provide for us; but for several others.


Actually stowlin, I intend to grow a tree or 2 in pots. I just haven't decided what yet.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

inceptor said:


> Actually stowlin, I intend to grow a tree or 2 in pots. I just haven't decided what yet.


Not sure how big a tree can grow in pots. I'm not a green thumb. I just like trees. We have some apple trees planted on the property in Ireland and they are doing ok. Also have some almond trees doing ok there.

Honestly if I was urban (again) and had to grow trees' in pots that I'd count on for sustaining us it'd be oranges, apples, peaches, as my limited experience with those is they produce a lot of food - much of it you can then can for long term storage.


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