# bad water?



## ghostman (Dec 11, 2014)

Is there sometimes when you shouldnt risk drinking water even after purifying it? I mean in a post collapse situation your in the woods and you find a lake or river and you see things in it like large amounts of dead fish, the water smells terrible, animals wont drink from it, in situations like this do you think its a good idea to not chance it?


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

If there's dead fish and the critters won't drink it, I won't either! 

Watch out for roadside water too, it has chemicals in it that you can't filter out.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

First, Arklatex is absolutely correct about not using roadside water. County sprays to stop weed growth & sprays to stop bugs. I don't want to drink either of those.

Without knowing the cause of the fish kill I wouldn't chance the lake/pond water. The bacteria from the dead fish in itself would send me to find another source of water. You really want to go for flowing water anyhow.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

If you have someone in your group that can be spared, have him drink it first and see what happens.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

every group needs a canary... My father's girlfriend's son would be ours. He is a drain on society and on his mother and wouldn't contribute a blessed thing if SHTF. Though she would never forgive us if we turned him away after SHTF.... so he is our canary LOL.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

You never know about fish kills. We had one a couple years ago and the official cause was an algae bloom depleted the oxygen in the water. Suffocating the fish. That water might have been safe to drink after filtration and purification. But in a collapse I wouldn't touch it.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Dead or Dead. I take dead while trying to live thats life.

Do what you can to make your water safe. Distallation is just one method. Dont depend on a filter if you dont have to. Obviously your source of water is going to effect how you sanitize it.

Most water from taps these days is contaminated but still deemed safe for human consumption.


Put a glass of water from your toilet bowl on a counter then try to go 7 Days without water. You must drink the toilet bowl water before drinking any other fluids. Try it out see what happens.
Cracking car radiators or fire hydrants who knows. Point is you can live or die. Without water you die its that simple.

Share with your pet or others if you dont trust it.

After a week your body is dieing and if death is within your end is perhapas more compassionate though more intense and frenetic.

The benefit of delerium is the inability to dwell beyond the fact you are dying and instead are caught up on how you are dying. It may provide a greater sense of peace as to the profundity of death.


It is better imo to die a breif physically painful death than a terminal mentally tortourous one. To die while humanity remains is a blessing as there us nothing worse than to loose ones humanity while alive.


SAS Survival guide has some basic steps for finding or determining if there is a source of drinking water and how to make a still and filter.

Water isnt an option it is required . Keep hydrated always it is the #1 lifestyle prep around.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Do what? Radiator fluid has antifreeze which is poisonous. Except for Will, I don't recommend anyone try drinking it.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

In Florida in late summer you have to watch out for amebas in shallow water.
Ameba | Define Ameba at Dictionary.com
People die every year from swimming in shallow water (ponds) from amebas getting to the brain threw the ears. Boiling is the only safe way to treat such water.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Not unusual to have fish kills from lack of oxygen in the water. This is normally caused by lack of a flowing water source to the pond/lake & lack of rainfall. Rain hitting the top of the water airates the water. But once you have dead fish then you have a serious contamination problem.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Death by antifreeze, or slow mental anguish?
I will drink blood from a stone before I'd touch antifreeze corrupted water. 
As far as a shtf scenerio, I think water will be an issue, but, I can work through it.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

In most places in the USA...you are never really far from water...so if one pond/lake/stream looks bad.. walk a little further.


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## Will3 (Jan 11, 2015)

Just a heads up people. In non freezing climates, water is used in place of antifreeze. While it may not be as common as in the US&#8230; note that it can be used in place of antifreeze, the reason antifreeze is used is when there is a risk of freezing temperatures, as when water freezes it will turn into ice and ruin cars. Some places almost never ever have freezing temperatures, freezing temps are rare south of the US. Also if industrial production dies off antifreeze supplies might run down.. which in that case more people will be using water .. although not a likely at all. It is still possible to find someone using a radiator without antifreeze in warmer months, although definitely you don't want to drink antifreeze. Contamination is an issue, but so is death. Also antifreeze is reversible.. so if it contains a large amount of water it could be OK.. as it won't kill you immediately, your organs will start being damaged, but dehydration might be worse than being toxified, or poisoned depending on how fast the toxin or poison acts, it depends on the quantity. It is vital to stay hydrated.

It is just one factor&#8230; 
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000774.htm

"In small amounts, the body metabolizes alcohol and it is expelled without damage to cells."

Bear in mind "Within 24 to 72 hours, a person who has ingested a significant amount of antifreeze can die as a result. " Signifigant is what is left based upon your body size and health, kidney health particularly.

of course 3 days is the same time period people give for dying of thirst, although that isn't true.

If medical help is available - and you need water to survive water contaminated with antifreeze or much else is better than dying, provided you don't think it will kill you faster than going without water. You will die if you don't. Not recommended but something to consider.

eg. http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...ght-water-as-coolant-in-the-summer-is-it-fine

Also bear in mind you can rig up your radiator for distillation work which makes pure water.

look to distillation --- making a solar still etc.. any source is better than no source. Because you are dead without water.

"Distillation
While the two methods described above will kill most microorganisms in water, distillation will remove microorganisms that resist these methods, as well as heavy metals, salts, and most other chemicals.
Distillation involves boiling water and then collecting the vapor that condenses back to water. The condensed vapor will not include salt or most other impurities. To distill, fill a pot halfway with water. Tie a cup to the handle on the pot's lid so that the cup will hang right- side-up when the lid is upside-down (make sure the cup is not dan- gling into the water), and boil the water for 20 minutes. The water that drips from the lid into the cup is distilled. (See illustration.)"
￼
Source: Page 12 of Food and Water in an Emergency available at http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/f&web.pdf

" carbon (a shake flask will usually do as well) at 60-80°C. This should remove the (primarily) fluorescein. Then, either rough dry (sodium or mag sulfate) or azeotrope the water out " - http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/member.php?action=viewpro&member=Ozone at http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8952

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope

So with 95.63% ethanol and 4.37% water (by weight) on a 50/50 mixture of ethanol / water

perhaps 90-95% of water may be salvaged in the mixture through processing.

boiling point antifreeze ~ boiling point of 189C
boiling point of water ~ 100C

Or how about electrolysis with a car battery and recombination?

You can also take this same idea of glycol recovery as a means of water recovery with glycol elimination http://www.google.ca/patents/US6299737

Note from US6299737"A number of methods have been developed for removing the glycols from the used antifreeze by simple distillation at atmospheric pressure or reduced pressure, as described for example in DE-A-40 30 331."

"The used technical fluids mentioned normally include 10% by weight or more of water, especially 50% by weight or more of water with antifreeze, the bulk of which should preferably be removed by distillation prior to glycol recovery. The distillative removal of water is carried out either by concentrating under reduced pressure and hence at temperatures where the thermal stress is only small; or else by likewise separating off the water by azeotropic entrainment, advantageously with the same solvent or the same solvent mixture as also used for entraining the glycol."

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-does-distilling-urine-produce-potable-water.htm

at
*~110C mostly water* of boil over???

also interesting is that you could burn the hydrogen from the mixture and get water as a result you could do this by adding ammonia to use as an electrolyte.

"Since hydrogen gas is so light, it rises in the atmosphere and is therefore rarely found in its pure form, H2. In a flame of pure hydrogen gas, burning in air, the hydrogen (H2) reacts with oxygen (O2) to form water (H2O) and releases energy."


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> In most places in the USA...you are never really far from water...so if one pond/lake/stream looks bad.. walk a little further.


While AZ is very shy on ponds or streams, I have 18 swimming pools within 3 blocks of my house, plus my dedicated storage.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

I thought I would add that most disaster response plans include circulation of water as a primary relief activity. Water is one of the first services that would be restored but restoration of all services can take up to around 3 to four months. Full recovery 3 to 4 years for minor items or 10 years or longer for major stuff. As such having atleast 4 to 16 weeks of water is prudent. The 72 hour water supply is a joke.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Water hazards come in three major forms: microbes, chemical toxins, radioactive toxins. The radiation issue is a very low-probability threat, and if you get microbes and chemicals out most of the radiation-bearing atoms out too. Microbes are removed by high quality particulate filters or killed by heating (you don't need to actually boil but it's a handy way to be sure the entire batch of water is hot enough) or killed by 'chemical purification' such as bleach or water tablet treatment. Chemical toxins are trickier. Best bets are activated charcoal and distillation, but neither approach is perfect.

So if I were purifying by filtration -- likely, as my portable systems are filters and tablets and I trust the filters more -- in the situation you bring up, I'd avoid drinking from that source unless I couldn't find anything else. If nothing else was obtainable, I'd drink it. Dehydration is the greater risk, and more probably more miserable too.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

There are so many ways to deal with filthy water. I was once made to test (microscopically and by drinking) a water sump which is a hole dug in the ground 10-20ft away from a water source it acts as a well and it filters what ever was in the water out and because most chemicals are heavier than water the lateral filtration defeats them and metals, boil the water just in case and you should be just fine.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

if you have distilling skills, investigate fractional distillation. It is a way to get things separated that distill over. 
I know wiki is for wacky, but it did come up first and is good enough for a start:
Fractional distillation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gaurding your water source from little formaldehyde droppers (muslims poison water always. Formaldehyde looks like ebola and you get rid of people without risk of infection to staff. Don't mean to be cynical, just know what they do.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

When you get down to it, there is no such thing as "bad water".
H2O doesn't go bad.
Things *in* H2O make it bad for you.

Figuring out the proper way to remove those things is the challenge.
First, we have solids and liquids that simply don't belong there. Proper filtration should take care of these.
Next, we have organic matter that cold prove detrimental to your health. Bacteria, virii, protozoa, etc... There are various purification methods to eliminate these.
Finally, we have chemical and elemental matter that could be harmful to us. These are generally more difficult to remove, but are also more rare to be found in remote places.
Some chemicals mix so well with water, that they are almost impossible to separate out.
Others can be drawn away from the water using attractants and other physical means.
One big way to remove many types of chemicals and metals is to run the water through a course of activated charcoal. This material acts as an attractant due to being ionized. It literally pulls the chemicals from the water and bonds them to the charcoal due to a difference in charges between the two substances.
AC also has a HUGE surface area, which aids tremendously in attracting and holding larger amounts of contaminants.

In the end, no matter what is in the water, if you can figure out a solid method for removing it, the H2O you get as a result will be safe.
Learning as many methods as possible for removing these various contaminants will be invaluable during a SHTF situation.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

But how do you know if someone has deliberately poisoned the water? Actually, it is pretty horrible to consider, but if someone was afraid of the zombie hoards, why wouldn't they try to kill some of them off with cyanide in an accessible water source? I


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> But how do you know if someone has deliberately poisoned the water? Actually, it is pretty horrible to consider, but if someone was afraid of the zombie hoards, why wouldn't they try to kill some of them off with cyanide in an accessible water source? I


How do you know the water from your faucet isn't poisoned?


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

oddapple said:


> if you have distilling skills, investigate fractional distillation. It is a way to get things separated that distill over.
> I know wiki is for wacky, but it did come up first and is good enough for a start:
> Fractional distillation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Gaurding your water source from little formaldehyde droppers (muslims poison water always. Formaldehyde looks like ebola and you get rid of people without risk of infection to staff. Don't mean to be cynical, just know what they do.


I suggest an introductory organic chemistry lab manual to learn about distillation (and steam distillation) as a good background so you can evaluate the merit of homemade distillation setups. Some organics may not separate and may even become more concentrated in fractions of the distillate. However it is great at removing microbes and all non-volitile contamination (salts, metals, etc)


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