# Encounter with LEO this evening



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

As some of you know I live out of town .This evening I notice activity down at our other house where there should be none . I was not overly concerned so The dog stayed inside( he is not very nice sometimes) and I walked down to see what was going on. Noticed someone in the Dark approaching me just as I reached to remove my weapon I hear him say xxxx county officer. By this time he has a light on and I of course push weapon back in and remove my hand. I informed him I was armed and where it was . His response. Thank you for informing me. I had no idea what was going on at this point . I ask him if he wish to disarm me. His response. No need. We then talked about why he was there. He was looking for information . Turns out I knew what he needed to know.
I invited him in the house. What I had forgotten was the AR 15 on the table I had just finished cleaning. No reaction from him. 
This is an example of how LEO and law biding citizens should enter act. I would have had no issue with him disarming me had he done so.
Private property and CC I am under no requirement to inform unless he ask. However I will always inform.
Respect goes both ways when it does everyone wins.


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## NZKiwi (Nov 11, 2014)

Claim and respective an example of a good LEO.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Glad everything went well for you, as well as for the LEO.

What was he doing? Looking for activity in the area?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Denton said:


> Glad everything went well for you, as well as for the LEO.
> 
> What was he doing? Looking for activity in the area?


 Yea he had some questions and someone pointed him to me. He did not know it was all one property and though he was at the right place.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Always nice to hear a good story about a LEO. Especially with all that has been going on lately.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> As some of you know I live out of town .This evening I notice activity down at our other house where there should be none . I was not overly concerned so The dog stayed inside( he is not very nice sometimes) and I walked down to see what was going on. Noticed someone in the Dark approaching me just as I reached to remove my weapon I hear him say xxxx county officer. By this time he has a light on and I of course push weapon back in and remove my hand. I informed him I was armed and where it was . His response. Thank you for informing me. I had no idea what was going on at this point . I ask him if he wish to disarm me. His response. No need. We then talked about why he was there. He was looking for information . Turns out I knew what he needed to know.
> I invited him in the house. What I had forgotten was the AR 15 on the table I had just finished cleaning. No reaction from him.
> This is an example of how LEO and law biding citizens should enter act. *I would have had no issue with him disarming me had he done so.
> Private property and CC I am under no requirement to inform unless he ask*. However I will always inform.
> Respect goes both ways when it does everyone wins.


Not on my own property if I have done nothing wrong, but other wise your response was spot on.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Could have went a totally different way. 
Glad all is good.


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## redhawk (May 7, 2014)

That could have been a "touchy" event. Very glad that it ended up being a good encounter.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

That's the way police should react, and do in my neighborhood, too, thank God.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

My response here in NJ would have been to inform him I was the property owner and been willing to identify myself. I would have provided no further information about anything and informed him if he wanted information it would be with an attorney present at a scheduled time and place. I would have then asked him to leave the property. He would not have entered my home without a warrant.

The local cops have burned all the bridges. Respect I'll give, as I would to anyone else, but trust is long gone.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

I'm glad everything went just the way it is supposed to. =) No reason to not make nicey, nice with the local cops.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Good deal. Glad he didn't freak out about the guns or ask you to disarm. Cops are just people and will generally treat you the way you treat them. Some are complete jerks and belong in another profession. Seems like the Leo's in rural areas are 10 times nicer though.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

If you aren't a convicted felon, adjudicated mentally ill or fall under the dubiously unconstitutional Lautenberg amendment for Domestic Violence I want you to exercise your rights all over the place. I'm not going to ask you to put your gun down if I think you are who you say you are. It is a bit of a sticky wicket at times. I have seen home owners walking around out side holding a gun. They are an armed suspect in my mind until I determine otherwise.

I responded to an aggravated burglary once in which a young lady was at home with her elderly mother. She told the dispatcher someone had forced open the garage door and was downstairs. We responded in about 2.5 minutes (a lifetime in some instances) She met us at the front door. She said I grabbed my Mossberg 500 and my handgun and kept it pointed down the stairs in case he came up. "I jokingly asked why did you call us?" 

She had that situation well in hand. She had guns and she knew how to use them. I thanked her profusely for taking her protection seriously and told her we needed good cops. I hope she applies one day.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

The few times I have dealt with LEOs I showed them respect, and received respect in return.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Moonshinedave said:


> The few times I have dealt with LEOs I showed them respect, and received respect in return.


"nuff said ^^^^^^


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Yes, guys, there is a reason to make nice with the local police. Bad guys are the only people that need to fear the police. I'm not saying be a kiss ass, but a cop came to ask the man some questions. Jeez, you guys act like it was a bad call. I would have acted the same. Obviously, the demeanor of the officer allowed him to be invited in. Not all Leo are out to screw you over. 
99 percent or more, are great guys and gals just like us.


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## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

I wouldnt want to be in a city the way things are now. Around here, we all know each other, including the Sheriff, deputies, etc. And a Judge lives on the property next to ours. Thank God we're all friends and good neighbors. 
I hope all of you who live in populated area's heed the advice of some of these guys here.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

I find it odd that he would show up in the dark. Did he leave the vehicle lights on? or was he snooping around like a ninja?


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

Diver said:


> My response here in NJ would have been to inform him I was the property owner and been willing to identify myself. I would have provided no further information about anything and informed him if he wanted information it would be with an attorney present at a scheduled time and place. I would have then asked him to leave the property. He would not have entered my home without a warrant.
> 
> The local cops have burned all the bridges. Respect I'll give, as I would to anyone else, but trust is long gone.


I wonder if our resident officers on this forum could confirm that it is a bad idea to talk to law enforcement?

One possible scenario, someone has given them incorrect info, and when you provide them with some innocent truth, it incriminates you.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Deebo said:


> Yes, guys, there is a reason to make nice with the local police. Bad guys are the only people that need to fear the police. I'm not saying be a kiss ass, but a cop came to ask the man some questions. Jeez, you guys act like it was a bad call. I would have acted the same. Obviously, the demeanor of the officer allowed him to be invited in. Not all Leo are out to screw you over.
> 99 percent or more, are great guys and gals just like us.


It isn't a question of a bad call. It is a question of trust. The only demeanor I would be looking for is an immediate explanation of why he is there. If he had a good reason to be there I would listen, thank him and that would be it. You apparently trust the uniform. I only trust individuals and a total stranger showing up unexpectedly at night does not sound like an individual I would immediately trust. It sounds like a trespasser.

As for the question of disarming, which fortunately did not happen in this case. If I am disarmed, any possibility of trust evaporates. If you don't trust me, I don't trust you.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

It is never a bad idea to talk to Police. I think alot of what is happening today is this: When you are constantly dealing with certain people you wrongly make the assumption everyone is the same. In my town, there is no shortage of pill poppers. I went to a minute clinic for a case of bronchitis. As soon as the doctor walked in I got attitude. "What do you want?" "What's the problem?" "I can't give you narcotics if that's what you're after." I just laughed and said I'ts obvious I came to the wrong place, thanks for your time and walked out. The same thing happened when I had a problem with a cell phone. It was obvious they were used to dealing with buttholes all day, every day and I got lip before I said a word.

Police are different in that we have to take the verbal abuse, the snarky comments, the name calling and the racial epithets. They have to roll off like water off a duck's ass. We have to treat everyone with the utmost respect and maintain a professional demeanor throughout every contact. Even when a suspect is fighting, I want my Officers to say "Sir, Please stop resisting!" or "Sir, you are under arrest, Please stop resisting or you will be charged with that too!". 

I always tried to take time out to talk to everyone and still do. If I heard "We need more like you." I had a good day. I chased a kid in the pitch black night and he ran right into a clothes line. When I caught up to him he balled up. I said what are you doing? He said "Aren't you going to kick my ass now?" I said let's look at that cut on your face first. I talked to him the whole time EMS was working on him. Last time I saw him he was driving a truck for Coca Cola. He turned into a fine man. 

Words and actions can change lives. Cops are only human and we are guilty of preconceived notions, stereotyping and prejudice like anyone else. We have alot of house cleaning to do, that much is certain.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

An law school professor and former criminal defense attorney tells you why you should never agree to be interviewed by the police.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> It is never a bad idea to talk to Police. I think alot of what is happening today is this: When you are constantly dealing with certain people you wrongly make the assumption everyone is the same. In my town, there is no shortage of pill poppers. I went to a minute clinic for a case of bronchitis. As soon as the doctor walked in I got attitude. "What do you want?" "What's the problem?" "I can't give you narcotics if that's what you're after." I just laughed and said I'ts obvious I came to the wrong place, thanks for your time and walked out. The same thing happened when I had a problem with a cell phone. It was obvious they were used to dealing with buttholes all day, every day and I got lip before I said a word.
> 
> Police are different in that we have to take the verbal abuse, the snarky comments, the name calling and the racial epithets. They have to roll off like water off a duck's ass. We have to treat everyone with the utmost respect and maintain a professional demeanor throughout every contact. Even when a suspect is fighting, I want my Officers to say "Sir, Please stop resisting!" or "Sir, you are under arrest, Please stop resisting or you will be charged with that too!".
> 
> ...


Cops in NY and NJ do not call anyone "Sir". Nor do they provide their own names unless asked. We had one show up at the door and the first words out of his mouth were "Do you own a xxxx Jeep?" My response "I'm sorry I did not catch your name." Needless to say he did not make it across the threshold, though I eventually found out he was there because the car had been hit by another driver while parked at the local community college. I thanked him and he left, but I considered him lacking in basic social skills.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Diver said:


> Cops in NY and NJ do not call anyone "Sir". Nor do they provide their own names unless asked. We had one show up at the door and the first words out of his mouth were "Do you own a xxxx Jeep?" My response "I'm sorry I did not catch your name." Needless to say he did not make it across the threshold, though I eventually found out he was there because the car had been hit by another driver while parked at the local community college. I thanked him and he left, but I considered him lacking in basic social skills.


Bad attitude seems to be a common thread with Officers up there.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> Bad attitude seems to be a common thread with Officers up there.


 Seems to me the larger the city the higher the concentration of protect class people the bigger the difference in LEO.
I have never been treat poorly on my bikes by LEO out here, only in big cities like Milwaukee or Madison.
To many years of forced PC on the officers has wore them down.


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

my personal experience has been positive with RCMP, but negative with city police. Not sure that I care to make any negative conclusion from that, because in general I respect all of them.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

tinkerhell said:


> my personal experience has been positive with RCMP, but negative with city police. Not sure that I care to make any negative conclusion from that, because in general I respect all of them.


Same here. I've never had any real issues.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Diver said:


> Cops in NY and NJ do not call anyone "Sir". Nor do they provide their own names unless asked. We had one show up at the door and the first words out of his mouth were "Do you own a xxxx Jeep?" My response "I'm sorry I did not catch your name." Needless to say he did not make it across the threshold, though I eventually found out he was there because the car had been hit by another driver while parked at the local community college. I thanked him and he left, but I considered him lacking in basic social skills.


That's BS about cops in NYC. I was there with Mrs Slippy to see a Yankees game a couple of years ago and while I was waiting for Mrs Slippy to get ready I moseyed on down to the street from our Manhatten hotel and was people watching. I saw two cops standing around near the lobby so I walked over and said "hey y'all" in my best southern accent. Before I knew it I had introduced myself and we were talking firearms etc. When Mrs Slippy came out of the hotel lobby I said my goodbyes to the cops and they both shook my hand and said they wished they had more people like me in NYC.

Maybe some of you native NY'er or NJ'ers just need to be a bit nicer?


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> Bad attitude seems to be a common thread with Officers up there.


In this case I would call it bad manners rather than bad attitude, but I have to agree.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Seems to me the larger the city the higher the concentration of protect class people the bigger the difference in LEO.
> I have never been treat poorly on my bikes by LEO out here, only in big cities like Milwaukee or Madison.
> To many years of forced PC on the officers has wore them down.


I don't care what their excuse is. If they can't be polite, they shouldn't be in a job that puts them in contact with the public.


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## scramble4a5 (Nov 1, 2012)

I live not too far from Chicago in a pretty big town with some real sketchy areas. I cannot imagine the local LEO not asking me to disarm if they showed up even to ask questions about another matter. They are conditioned to dealing with some real scum so they are always on high alert. I am not saying i agree with the possibility they would but I can't see them not asking me to disarm.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

scramble4a5 said:


> I live not too far from Chicago in a pretty big town with some real sketchy areas. I cannot imagine the local LEO not asking me to disarm if they showed up even to ask questions about another matter. They are conditioned to dealing with some real scum so they are always on high alert. I am not saying i agree with the possibility they would but I can't see them not asking me to disarm.


So they are on your property and the first thing they want to do is disarm you. Next they start asking questions. How do you respond? I think my position is already clear.


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

CSI-Tech, We need more LEO's like you out here in Southern California!!! I live in Ventura, between L.A. and Santa Barbara.. It was a small town when I moved here and the LEO's were pretty nice, But now with the gangs every where the cops are the biggest bunch of @%%#%*#s I have ever met... My father was a LEO, my uncle and cousin are still. but no matter what the circumstance is that you have contact with an LEO out here it is a negative one. 

The only funny encounter I have had with Law Enforcement was the SS... Some guy at my work didnt like me so he called the SS and said that I was threatening Obummer when he was still a senator and running for POTUS. They came out and we sat out front just BS'ing for an hour. They asked me why I didnt ask them inside when they showed up... I told them that I never let ANY ONE I dont know into my house and most definitely not any type of Law Enforcement. They told me that was a good idea, shook my hand and left.

I cant wait to move out of this state and hopefully into a very small town (Im from a town that to this day still has less then 300 people) I love small town feel, where you meet all LEO's and get to know them by name... Maybe my opinion will change when I change where I live.

Doc


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Diver said:


> Cops in NY and NJ do not call anyone "Sir". Nor do they provide their own names unless asked. We had one show up at the door and the first words out of his mouth were "Do you own a xxxx Jeep?" My response "I'm sorry I did not catch your name." Needless to say he did not make it across the threshold, though I eventually found out he was there because the car had been hit by another driver while parked at the local community college. I thanked him and he left, but I considered him lacking in basic social skills.


Things sure are different out here in The Heartland, aka Real America.
I have cops in the family, a cop as a fellow member at the local VFW, I have taken weapon training from the local Sheriff's Dept. All that I have met are decent guys.
But I guess city cops can get jaded dealing with hard core criminals and uptight citizens.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Not gonna sit around and debate this, but, maybe, just maybe, some of yslls problems cause you to be extra sensative to police. I know you have your reasons, but, maybe it's making you a little prejudice. 
P.s. Leo don't have to be nice, just professional. 
You never know what call they just left, maybe a bad wreck, maybe an Asshole right before you ruined his day.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Deebo said:


> Not gonna sit around and debate this, but, maybe, just maybe, some of yslls problems cause you to be extra sensative to police. I know you have your reasons, but, maybe it's making you a little prejudice.
> P.s. Leo don't have to be nice, just professional.
> You never know what call they just left, maybe a bad wreck, maybe an Asshole right before you ruined his day.


You've made that argument before and I don't buy it. It is their job to deal with difficult people, not mine.

When I meet a NJ or NY cop who is professional, I'll be sure to come back and post something about it. In the meantime I really don't care what call they just left. If they can't handle it and treat me politely, they won't get any information from me. I am a law abiding citizen and I don't deserve any form of abuse, not even verbal abuse. If they want something they can discuss it with my lawyer.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Things sure are different out here in The Heartland, aka Real America.
> I have cops in the family, a cop as a fellow member at the local VFW, I have taken weapon training from the local Sheriff's Dept. All that I have met are decent guys.
> But I guess city cops can get jaded dealing with hard core criminals and uptight citizens.


I'm glad to hear it is better elsewhere, but there really isn't enough crime around here to be an excuse for how the cops around here act. (I am a senior citizen in a quiet suburban community.)

I have also met retired cops through the local range and taken some training with a few of them. Even they have a low opinion of the current generation of cops here.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I think some of the problem is just different mannerisms. I went to Chicago and asked for a sweet tea and a sausage biscuit. They had no clue what I was asking for, laughed at me and yelled to the other wait staff what I wanted. It made me feel like an idiot. Then, I explained that I just wanted a biscuit with a sausage patty in it, like a sandwich and a glass of iced tea with sugar and lemon. She took great care of me and was polite as could be after that. Just a touch of culture shock I suppose. They don't know how to make sausage either.


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Maybe some of you native NY'er or NJ'ers just need to be a bit nicer?


Funny you should say that, a few years ago I had a run in with a NY tourist... And wore "I'm from NY" like a label....

Needless to say it ended in a argument over Queensland legislation over my right to evict him off the premises... And a very hard to control urge to beat the living s%&* out if him...


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

pheniox17 said:


> Funny you should say that, a few years ago I had a run in with a NY tourist... And wore "I'm from NY" like a label....
> 
> Needless to say it ended in a argument over Queensland legislation over my right to evict him off the premises... And a very hard to control urge to beat the living s%&* out if him...


Well, as you can guess, I would not get caught dead in a "I'm from NY" t-shirt even though I live in the metro area. Next time, no need to control those urges.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

pheniox17 said:


> Funny you should say that, a few years ago I had a run in with a NY tourist... And wore "I'm from NY" like a label....
> 
> Needless to say it ended in a argument over Queensland legislation over my right to evict him off the premises... And a very hard to control urge to beat the living s%&* out if him...


I'm not too fond of New Yorkers, either.
I grew up in South Florida in the 50's and 60's. It was paradise.
By the 80's so many people from New York and Jersey had moved down the whole character of the place changed. It turned from paradise to a suburb of New York populated by rude, arrogant liberals.
My wife and I made our escape in 1995, and since my parents died I have no reason to return.
My daughter who lives in North Carolina (she left because she couldn't stand it anymore either) says that state has a problem with what are known as "Half Backs". These are northerners who moved to Florida, ruined it so bad THEY even don't like it anymore, and moved half way back to New York.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm not too fond of New Yorkers, either.
> I grew up in South Florida in the 50's and 60's. It was paradise.
> By the 80's so many people from New York and Jersey had moved down the whole character of the place changed. It turned from paradise to a suburb of New York populated by rude, arrogant liberals.
> My wife and I made our escape in 1995, and since my parents died I have no reason to return.
> My daughter who lives in North Carolina (she left because she couldn't stand it anymore either) says that state has a problem with what are known as "Half Backs". These are northerners who moved to Florida, ruined it so bad THEY even don't like it anymore, and moved half way back to New York.


In case you haven't figured it out, NYers don't like each other.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

We can not have a us and them way of thinking. Not from either side ,if we do it means war. LEO need to understand the everyday citizen while not prefect is on their side ,and We must know the same about them.
For to long our LEO have been made a part of the political system rather than justice system. Time for LEO to tell the Mayor. the Union the DA's to get bent. Time to remind them all, LEO do work for the society they serve in. LEO should tell the Mayor to take his hug a gangbanger days and stuff them. LEO should go on the 6 PM news and say, we arrested 15 felon gangbangers last week, all good bust. The DA let 10 walk and the other 5 plea down to parking tickets. 
Most of the illegal weapons possession charges by gang bangers in Milwaukee go uncharged those that are get plead down automatically.
This is the problem this is why we are where we are today.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> We can not have a us and them way of thinking. Not from either side ,if we do it means war. LEO need to understand the everyday citizen while not prefect is on their side ,and We must know the same about them.
> For to long our LEO have been made a part of the political system rather than justice system. Time for LEO to tell the Mayor. the Union the DA's to get bent. Time to remind them all, LEO do work for the society they serve in. LEO should tell the Mayor to take his hug a gangbanger days and stuff them. LEO should go on the 6 PM news and say, we arrested 15 felon gangbangers last week, all good bust. The DA let 10 walk and the other 5 plea down to parking tickets.
> Most of the illegal weapons possession charges by gang bangers in Milwaukee go uncharged those that are get plead down automatically.
> This is the problem this is why we are where we are today.


I am sorry, but LEOs here enforce laws against carrying weapons (even knives) and self defense (duty to retreat), etc. against law abiding citizens. Cops are not held accountable when they violate a person's rights, or commit illegal acts. I agree there is an us vs. them mentality, but if they won't respect my basic constitutional rights, they are NOT on my side, and I see no reason to be on their side.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> I am sorry, but LEOs here enforce laws against carrying weapons (even knives) and self defense (duty to retreat), etc. against law abiding citizens. Cops are not held accountable when they violate a person's rights, or commit illegal acts. I agree there is an us vs. them mentality, but if they won't respect my basic constitutional rights, they are NOT on my side, and I see no reason to be on their side.


And, there is the problem.

Unconstitutional statutes, codes and regulations have taken the place of constitutional law. Most citizens couldn't tell you the difference, and neither could most of the cops, and neither know the difference between peace officers and law enforcement officers. All the while, our society becomes more and more in need of law enforcement officers due to the inability to self-police.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Sounds like you have some good LEO's there.I have had interactions with LE. in two different states and never had a problem.there are some good ones (sheriff,city police) here and they are pretty good people.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I am sorry, but LEOs here enforce laws against carrying weapons (even knives) and self defense (duty to retreat), etc. against law abiding citizens. Cops are not held accountable when they violate a person's rights, or commit illegal acts. I agree there is an us vs. them mentality, but if they won't respect my basic constitutional rights, they are NOT on my side, and I see no reason to be on their side.

I let a man convicted of a felony possess a machete in his jeans because there was no law whatsoever against it. He's not allowed to possess a firearm, but Tennessee removed the restriction on blade length in July of 2012. You can now legally walk down the street with a Samurai sword. I'm all for it if you are a law abiding citizen. I don't care if you stuff a bofors gun in your tighty whitees and stroll the boulevard. This guy is a convicted felon and there can be no question but that he was carrying that blade to protect himself or assault another in the furtherance of his criminal activity. He was outside a crack house and we were arresting him on an outstanding felony drug possession warrant out of another jurisdiction. Sometimes the bad guys win folks, and we have to look the other way. I guarantee you, had I charged him in contravention of the law for carrying a prohibited weapon, my ass would be in a sling.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I am sorry, but LEOs here enforce laws against carrying weapons (even knives) and self defense (duty to retreat), etc. against law abiding citizens. Cops are not held accountable when they violate a person's rights, or commit illegal acts. I agree there is an us vs. them mentality, but if they won't respect my basic constitutional rights, they are NOT on my side, and I see no reason to be on their side.
> 
> I let a man convicted of a felony possess a machete in his jeans because there was no law whatsoever against it. He's not allowed to possess a firearm, but Tennessee removed the restriction on blade length in July of 2012. You can now legally walk down the street with a Samurai sword. I'm all for it if you are a law abiding citizen. I don't care if you stuff a bofors gun in your tighty whitees and stroll the boulevard. This guy is a convicted felon and there can be no question but that he was carrying that blade to protect himself or assault another in the furtherance of his criminal activity. He was outside a crack house and we were arresting him on an outstanding felony drug possession warrant out of another jurisdiction. Sometimes the bad guys win folks, and we have to look the other way. I guarantee you, had I charged him in contravention of the law for carrying a prohibited weapon, my ass would be in a sling.


Meanwhile in NJ (still under the same Constitution) we have the Shaneen Allen case. What is to stop TN from passing gun laws like NJ or NY? What would you do if they did? What would you do with a Shaneen Allen?

Also consider the issue of what if I had run into this fellow with the machete? I'm defenseless because I obey laws that the NJ cops enforce. That strikes me as an even bigger win for the bad guys.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

I would have never voluntarily offered be disarmed by the police. First I have a right to be armed and second I am on my property and he is trespassing. No cops come in my house without a warrant. sorry I have no reason to trust anyone with a badge and a gun.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

dsdmmat said:


> I would have never voluntarily offered be disarmed by the police. First I have a right to be armed and second I am on my property and he is trespassing. No cops come in my house without a warrant. sorry I have no reason to trust anyone with a badge and a gun.


 I am trying to change that back to the way it should be. Truth is had that newer officer done some checking his fellow officer would have advise him to call ahead.
I am not sure why but some of them are afraid of me.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> .......I am not sure why but some of them are afraid of me.


That is never a bad thing. I will handle things that arise where I happen to be, if the police need to be involved they can secure the area, file reports and pick up the garbage. Other than that I have no desire to have contact with any of them.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

dsdmmat said:


> That is never a bad thing. I will handle things that arise where I happen to be, if the police need to be involved they can secure the area, file reports and pick up the garbage. Other than that I have no desire to have contact with any of them.


That is exactly my attitude.


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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

If I may insert some levity. A few years back I was bombing up I80 eastbound out of Salt Lake, left lane, doing about 80-85 up the canyon, trying to keep up my momentum and not have to downshift. Deputy pulled me over, then snuck up on my passenger side (I was expecting him on my side...I don't have that much experience lately). Gave me a heckuva start, and I said so, laughing. Whew. Handed him my papers, he asked where to and from, and figured maybe I needed a further eval, as there were empty energy drink bottles and coffee cups and water bottles and burger wrappers and stuff on the floor and I might have looked a little wild eyed and crazed by then, too, no air and the windows down, hair flying everywhere. Hot day in the desert and not far up into the mountains yet. Asked if I had any guns (USPSA, NRA, SASS, etc. stickers on camper shell). I said, "Well, sure, I got a pistol in the back" as if, Doesn't everybody? "Any other weapons? "Well, I got a Swiss Army knife here in me pocket" Told me to put it on the dash and step on out, so I did. I'd been driving seven hours or so and the break was almost welcome. Stretched a little, and then got in his car. The air-conditioning was wonderful. AR15, Rem. 870, computer, gooseneck camera. Cool. He ran a check on the computer and of course nothing there, but a long list of numbers. He said those were my FBI contacts. What the...? We decided they must be background checks from FFL purchases. So much for the laws prohibiting registration, but we didn't get into that. I said "Wow, this is like a space ship in here". He looked at me kinda unbelievingly and said "You've never been in a police car before?" I said, "Well, yeah, but if I recall correctly, it was a '65 Dodge Polara, 3-speed on the column, 2-way radio, cage, with a red cherry on top and a couple of spotlights. There was this cranky old deputy who took a dislike to me when I was a kid, hitchhiking around the county with a .22 hunting squirrels. Saw the inside of his car a few times, always trying to get me in trouble with my parents". We laughed, he gave me a warning about the speeding, and I can honestly say I have not once speeded since. Hardly ever did before, but still. Whenever I think about speeding, I think of that deputy and his warning on I80.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> I am not sure why but some of them are afraid of me.


If they know you are a veteran it could just be a sign of respect for the brotherhood, since a high percentage of them are veterans too.
I'm sure the veteran stickers on the back of my vehicles plus a friendly demeanor on my part has helped me in the past.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Maybe I'm missing something, but at the funerals of my slain brothers in New York many of the Police turned their backs on Bill DeBlasio. Unless I'm mistaken, DeBlasio wanted to repeal the "stop & Frisk" policy in New York. IF that's the case and he truly wanted to repeal it that man should be applauded. Stop & Frisk is patently UNCONSTITUTIONAL and should be put aside without delay. Bill DeBlasio may be a big steaming pile, I don't know but the cops were wrong and DISRESPECTFUL for making that political statement at a funeral and they need to pull their heads out of their asses and use Terry Vs. Ohio like the rest of the nation as set forth by the U.S. Supreme court. 

Rant truncated, nothing follows------------


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I'm afraid of RPD too.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Bill DeBlasio ran on an anti police platform.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Here is one reason I decided being a Cop might not be too bad. I was in the Navy and I owned a 1969 Hurst Olds. It was #104 of 906 built. It had a 455 CI Hurst modified motor pulling a TH400 transmission and could turn high 12's in a quarter mile. Very hot and rare car for a poor enlisted man. My family ate beans and rice every night, but what a car!

I didn't have it inspected at the official inspection station and a VA State Trooper saw that I had no sticker. I looked in my super duper Hurst sport mirror only to see him turn around. I punched it! The Olds rose up on it's haunches and roared out every last one of it's 390 horses. He turned off his blue lights and turned off. He knew he had been bested!

Damned if that guy wasn't sitting in front of my apartment eating a moon pie. He evidently knew a short cut. He laughed at me, kept saying "Ha! I caught you!" then he said he was only going to write me for the Marta violation. I decided if I were to be a cop, if I could be half as cool as this guy, I'd do fine. Right after he left my wife was laughing and said "hey, smile for the camera!" So here is Mr. Know-it-all in his flight suit right after leaving the carrier in the Olds. Good times!


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> Here is one reason I decided being a Cop might not be too bad. I was in the Navy and I owned a 1969 Hurst Olds. It was #104 of 906 built. It had a 455 CI Hurst modified motor pulling a TH400 transmission and could turn high 12's in a quarter mile. Very hot and rare car for a poor enlisted man. My family ate beans and rice every night, but what a car!
> 
> I didn't have it inspected at the official inspection station and a VA State Trooper saw that I had no sticker. I looked in my super duper Hurst sport mirror only to see him turn around. I punched it! The Olds rose up on it's haunches and roared out every last one of it's 390 horses. He turned off his blue lights and turned off. He knew he had been bested!
> 
> Damned if that guy wasn't sitting in front of my apartment eating a moon pie. He evidently knew a short cut. He laughed at me, kept saying "Ha! I caught you!" then he said he was only going to write me for the Marta violation. I decided if I were to be a cop, if I could be half as cool as this guy, I'd do fine. Right after he left my wife was laughing and said "hey, smile for the camera!" So here is Mr. Know-it-all in his flight suit right after leaving the carrier in the Olds. Good times!


Now let me enjoy this car porn a little longer

But with stories like this... You have to ask the question... What changed??


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## pheniox17 (Dec 12, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> I'm afraid of RPD too.


I don't understand why?? Nothing to fear unless your a enemy lol


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I like RPD, I'm just funning about. I drove that car for years after I became a Cop until a man from Milford Connecticut made me a more than generous offer. It was 100 percent original with build sheet, window sticker, protect-o-plate and tons of other documentation. It needed to be restored and that would have cost more than I could afford. I sold it to him and bought a 1970 GTO Judge. I sold that and bought family cars after that. I thought every one ended up like that.  I became a cop out of need of a job really. When I look back I'm sure I'll feel like it was the right choice for me and family. I don't regret it.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but at the funerals of my slain brothers in New York many of the Police turned their backs on Bill DeBlasio. Unless I'm mistaken, DeBlasio wanted to repeal the "stop & Frisk" policy in New York. IF that's the case and he truly wanted to repeal it that man should be applauded. Stop & Frisk is patently UNCONSTITUTIONAL and should be put aside without delay. Bill DeBlasio may be a big steaming pile, I don't know but the cops were wrong and DISRESPECTFUL for making that political statement at a funeral and they need to pull their heads out of their asses and use Terry Vs. Ohio like the rest of the nation as set forth by the U.S. Supreme court.
> 
> Rant truncated, nothing follows------------


Thank you for this post. Due to Stop & Frisk, NY gun laws, and violence against citizens Bill DeBlasio ran a successful campaign for mayor, winning 73% of the vote. Regardless of what you think of DeBlasio, the people of NY want the NYPD reformed.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I have no idea how New York's gun laws have survived any challenges. I fall under LEOSA so (I'd have to double check) I can carry in NYC. I bet that would burn them up too.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I have no idea how New York's gun laws have survived any challenges. I fall under LEOSA so (I'd have to double check) I can carry in NYC. I bet that would burn them up too.


Gun laws have been challenged but if the Supreme Court does not hear the cases the laws survive. The Supreme Court only hears about 1% of the cases that are appealed to them and until Heller and McDonald hadn't heard a gun case in many years.

As for traveling to NY, I would not recommend testing the situation there. First, the NYPD will not recognize your right to carry so you'll have an unpleasant experience between the time you get arrested and when they drop the charge, . . . if they drop the charge. Next even if they decide that as an LEO you can carry, there are a host of other things that can trip you up, e.g. do your magazines have more than 10 round capacity, or do you have hollow point bullets. Those laws can turn into yes you can carry, but no you can't carry what you normally carry.

Unless you want to be a test case, and risk losing, I don't recommend it. I'd give the same advice for NJ.

BTW: You would lose in the state courts so until you were able to appeal to a federal court, after your NY state supreme court loss, you'd be stuck with a felony record.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I carry thirteen round magazines with Federal Hydrashok which are FAR safer than FMJ in that they remain in the person I intended to shoot more frequently than does ball ammo. The NYPD won't have much choice. Last time I checked Federal Law trumps local law. I'm sure you are right though, I should just leave my gun and my Constitution at home. Do I need a passport to go there? Do I have to declare how much cash and such with Customs as well?????????? Last time I checked that place is still a part of this great Union.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> I carry thirteen round magazines with Federal Hydrashok which are FAR safer than FMJ in that they remain in the person I intended to shoot more frequently than does ball ammo. The NYPD won't have much choice. Last time I checked Federal Law trumps local law. I'm sure you are right though, I should just leave my gun and my Constitution at home. Do I need a passport to go there? Do I have to declare how much cash and such with Customs as well?????????? Last time I checked that place is still a part of this great Union.


Your magazines and preferred ammo would be illegal. The NY SAFE Act was passed without an LEO exemption. The NYPD has the choice to go ahead and make an example of you and you'll be paying for lawyers for years fighting it, so even if you win, you lose. Federal law trumps state law, . . . once you get to Federal court. Of course you have to survive the initial contact with NYPD to get into court at all. You might be dead before they find out you are an LEO. (Read up on Amadou Diallo.) Of course if they don't kill you, you may get the Abner Louima treatment.

In NJ your ammo would be illegal (hollow points are considered "cop killer" bullets) but the magazines okay (15 round limit.) It will take about 45 days in jail before you are given a chance to post bond and then your legal battle will lose in all state courts and the lower federal courts. Figure about a 5-10 year legal battle.

Your last sentence is what much of this discussion is about. Does the Constitution survive if some states can just opt out? What is an LEO who will enforce unconstitutional laws?


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Sounds like a bunch of Cops ARE enforcing UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws. Unreal, that's all I can say. Evidently you have to have a permit just to own a gun in your home????? Guess I'll just stay down here. It's not even the gun thing really. If they are getting away with that it's just a step away from: "Well. now you can't say that about our law against Zee large Zodas! Vere are Your Papaz herr Polizai."


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I'm afraid of RPD too.


Nah, nothing to be alarmed about, my friend. The VA Mental Hygiene Department says I'm well now. :armata_PDT_23:
They call me Mister Mellow.:armata_PDT_12:


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Nah, nothing to be alarmed about, my friend. The VA Mental Hygiene Department says I'm well now. :armata_PDT_23:
> They call me Mister Mellow.:armata_PDT_12:


If I can ever get seen at my local VA I'll let you know what they call me!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> If I can ever get seen at my local VA I'll let you know what they call me!


Actually, for the PTSD I went to The Vet Center. This is a stand alone department of the VA for dealing with "readjustment counseling", it was set up like that because most Vietnam vets wanted nothing to do with the VA. 
Vietnam Veterans of America plus the American Legion got the necessary legislation thru Congress and signed by President Reagan. It saved my life.

I'm in the regular VA Healthcare system now, but only use it for preventative care plus my hearing aids. And since Agent Orange exposure has already killed more Nam vets than actually died in the war I have to keep my status current. Just in case.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> Sounds like a bunch of Cops ARE enforcing UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws. Unreal, that's all I can say. Evidently you have to have a permit just to own a gun in your home????? Guess I'll just stay down here. It's not even the gun thing really. If they are getting away with that it's just a step away from: "Well. now you can't say that about our law against Zee large Zodas! Vere are Your Papaz herr Polizai."


In NJ you need to have a Firearm Owners ID card to purchase anything firearms related, even a BB gun. It must be presented to purchase anything firearms related. If a firearm is found in your home or car it will be seized and you might be able to retrieve it after presenting proof of purchase and suing. What condition it will be in is anyone's guess. In case you are wondering, the police will enter your home without a warrant and over your objections. I have had that happen to me.

The rest of the country has not objected to the enforcement of unconstitutional laws in NJ or NY or CA. If laws such as these can be passed and survive here, then they can be passed in your state as well. Look to CO as an example of what was thought to be a free state until recently.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Majority rule. I would hit the roof if I sat down to a raid plan and they said. "Tonight we are going after an otherwise law abiding citizen and seizing his guns because the State of New Jersey did not issue him his registration card allowing him to exercise his second amendment right guaranteed by the constitution of the United States." I would turn in all of my shit right then and there.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I have noticed the police around here are better than 5-6 years ago. I think it has to do with where the people come from. I think they stopped recruiting former grocery store employees.

An unmarked police car flashed its high beams yesterday afternoon. And what'll you know there was what everyone calls a speed trap down the road.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> Majority rule. I would hit the roof if I sat down to a raid plan and they said. "Tonight we are going after an otherwise law abiding citizen and seizing his guns because the State of New Jersey did not issue him his registration card allowing him to exercise his second amendment right guaranteed by the constitution of the United States." I would turn in all of my shit right then and there.


In my case I never owned a gun until I suffered a police break in of my home. My experience with the police is one of the reasons (not the only reason) I became a gun owner.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Diver said:


> In NJ you need to have a Firearm Owners ID card to purchase anything firearms related, even a BB gun. It must be presented to purchase anything firearms related. If a firearm is found in your home or car it will be seized and you might be able to retrieve it after presenting proof of purchase and suing. What condition it will be in is anyone's guess. In case you are wondering, the police will enter your home without a warrant and over your objections. I have had that happen to me.
> 
> The rest of the country has not objected to the enforcement of unconstitutional laws in NJ or NY or CA. If laws such as these can be passed and survive here, then they can be passed in your state as well. Look to CO as an example of what was thought to be a free state until recently.


The "rest of the country" has no business objecting to NJ laws. As per the Tenth Amendment.
As a Southerner, I am a firm believer in States Rights. If you do not like YOUR states laws, change them, or move. Remember, NJ was one of the victors in the War Of Northern Aggression, which was fought over States Rights.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The "rest of the country" has no business objecting to NJ laws. As per the Tenth Amendment.
> As a Southerner, I am a firm believer in States Rights. If you do not like YOUR states laws, change them, or move. Remember, NJ was one of the victors in the War Of Northern Aggression, which was fought over States Rights.


Then we aren't a country. In order to be a country with rule of law, the supreme law of the land needs to mean the same thing throughout the country. Eventually, northeastern gun laws are going to go nationwide. If you wait for them to reach your state any objection is going to be met with "It's legal in 45 states already why not here?" You will have no more right to bear arms than I do.

As for the civil war, you are offering the southern version of what the war was about. In the north the belief is the war was fought over slavery.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Diver said:


> Then we aren't a country. In order to be a country with rule of law, the supreme law of the land needs to mean the same thing throughout the country. Eventually, northeastern gun laws are going to go nationwide. If you wait for them to reach your state any objection is going to be met with "It's legal in 45 states already why not here?" You will have no more right to bear arms than I do.
> 
> As for the civil war, you are offering the southern version of what the war was about. In the north the belief is the war was fought over slavery.


(1)You claim to be a constitutionalist, yet you conveniently ignore one of the most important amendments - the 10th. You can not have it both ways.
(2)If you think northeastern laws will ever take hold in the South you are really out of touch, or perhaps a wee bit too self centered.
(3)Abraham Lincoln himself (that defiler of the Constitution) did not mention ANYTHING about slavery until the war was going badly enough for the North that he felt compelled to bring up slavery to rally the northern population. Look it up.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

What, exactly, do you want we Southerners to do; drive up to New Jersey and demand your state government to rescind your gun laws? Wouldn't that be a sight? It'd be wrong on two fronts, too. We citizens of other states have no right telling you citizens of New Jersey how to run your state. On top of that, we would look pretty silly, charging up there and doing for y'all which y'all won't do for yourselves.

You are right that tyrannical edicts through unconstitutional legislature can infringe on our rights, but it is done through the federal government and not your state's government.

Now, as far as the War of Northern Aggression, please take the time to read this book: The South Was Right!: James Ronald Kennedy, Walter Donald Kennedy: 9781565540248: Amazon.com: Books

You will find it not to be a book of unsubstantiated claims and opinions, but one that references diaries, news articles and observations of the time. An interesting read.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I may be a little old school, unpopular and a disgrace of a Southerner but I can never be convinced we would be living in a better place had the South won. Call me a brainwashed, public school edumacated dullard. I get the South's bid for State sovereignty and the rights of the states, the commerce on navigable waterways and property rights. I still believe that most of that was just an excuse to own another man. I believe Abraham Lincoln was guided by God Almighty. 

Will Mrs. Inor ban me for that one? We shall see.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

csi-tech said:


> I may be a little old school, unpopular and a disgrace of a Southerner but I can never be convinced we would be living in a better place had the South won. Call me a brainwashed, public school edumacated dullard. I get the South's bid for State sovereignty and the rights of the states, the commerce on navigable waterways and property rights. I still believe that most of that was just an excuse to own another man. I believe Abraham Lincoln was guided by God Almighty.
> 
> Will Mrs. Inor ban me for that one? We shall see.


Nope, I will not call you any of those things. I'll simply say that you are only getting part of the story.

Slavery wasn't going to last much longer, anyway, and it was a part of the larger issue which was states rights. Does that mean I believe the South was correct in attempting to secede? Nope. As a matter of fact, in other threads I have explained why it was wrong. To simplify it, though, I will direct you to the declaration of independence that was issued by the colonists to the king of England and to the world. The South should have learned from the past and emulated what the founders did, rather than acting in an impetuous manner. As it were, our legislative form of governance was dissolved (sine die) and Lincoln became king, rather than president. Before the constitutional republic was restored, he was assassinated. What happened after the Civil War insured the death of the constitutional republic and the formation of an all-controlling federal government.

There is enough blame to go around in all this. From the North's desire to use the South as its own economic slaves, to the South's disregard of doing things the right legal way, no side has clean hands. That the whole thing was about slavery is the victor writing history.

Again, a book worth reading. http://www.amazon.com/South-Right-James-Ronald-Kennedy/dp/1565540247


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> What, exactly, do you want we Southerners to do; drive up to New Jersey and demand your state government to rescind your gun laws? Wouldn't that be a sight? It'd be wrong on two fronts, too. We citizens of other states have no right telling you citizens of New Jersey how to run your state. On top of that, we would look pretty silly, charging up there and doing for y'all which y'all won't do for yourselves.
> 
> You are right that tyrannical edicts through unconstitutional legislature can infringe on our rights, but it is done through the federal government and not your state's government.
> 
> ...


In answer to what southerners should do, all I would ask is to give voice to the opinion that laws like the NY SAFE Act or NJ gun laws are unconstitutional. The way I do that is make a contribution to the legal defense fund when one of these cases pops up. $10 contributed to a Shaneen Allen goes much further than telling someone like me I should move in order to have my constitutional rights. If that is what I have to do, then where is safe? Atlanta maybe? Once somebody pays for that toddler's medical bills and they stop the irresponsible SWAT tactics, I might buy that, but I don't buy it now.

BTW: I grew up in the south and only moved north for work. I'm not inclined to go back to an out of control SWAT environment. You can't tell me law abiding citizens don't need to worry about SWAT abuse while the toddler's medical bills are unpaid.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> (1)You claim to be a constitutionalist, yet you conveniently ignore one of the most important amendments - the 10th. You can not have it both ways.
> (2)If you think northeastern laws will ever take hold in the South you are really out of touch, or perhaps a wee bit too self centered.
> (3)Abraham Lincoln himself (that defiler of the Constitution) did not mention ANYTHING about slavery until the war was going badly enough for the North that he felt compelled to bring up slavery to rally the northern population. Look it up.


Re: 1. The 10th does not overrule the 2nd, 4th, etc.
Re: 2. You've already bought into trashing the 4th amendment with SWAT raids for search warrants throughout the south. The rest will follow.
Re: 3. My point was that people in the north today believe the cause of the war was slavery, not states rights. I don't say they are correct.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

:76::deadhorse::facepalm:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> In answer to what southerners should do, all I would ask is to give voice to the opinion that laws like the NY SAFE Act or NJ gun laws are unconstitutional. The way I do that is make a contribution to the legal defense fund when one of these cases pops up. $10 contributed to a Shaneen Allen goes much further than telling someone like me I should move in order to have my constitutional rights. If that is what I have to do, then where is safe? Atlanta maybe? Once somebody pays for that toddler's medical bills and they stop the irresponsible SWAT tactics, I might buy that, but I don't buy it now.
> 
> BTW: I grew up in the south and only moved north for work. I'm not inclined to go back to an out of control SWAT environment. You can't tell me law abiding citizens don't need to worry about SWAT abuse while the toddler's medical bills are unpaid.


I agree that no government, be it federal or state, has the authority to take away what my Creator gave me. That being said, I am also very saddened by my countrymen of those states that allow such tyranny. Those people seem to be good with it, so who am I to speak out against what they do in their state? I would suggest that those who are against such rules take it to court, and take it to court in the right way. That is to say, keep it out of corporate jurisdiction and squarely within the constitutional jurisdiction.

Now, if you don't want to do that, you have two other options. One option is to move. It doesn't matter why you moved there, you can move out. If you do not see that as a viable option any more than the court option, then start a campaign in that state, or throw your energy and enthusiasm into one that is already organized and moving forward. That would do a lot more good than people from out of state voicing there opinion.

Good luck; we need all states on board with the notion of protecting those things which we were endowed by God.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> :76::deadhorse::facepalm:


Absolutely.
I'm moving on to other things. There is too much drama here.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> I agree that no government, be it federal or state, has the authority to take away what my Creator gave me. That being said, I am also very saddened by my countrymen of those states that allow such tyranny. Those people seem to be good with it, so who am I to speak out against what they do in their state? I would suggest that those who are against such rules take it to court, and take it to court in the right way. That is to say, keep it out of corporate jurisdiction and squarely within the constitutional jurisdiction.
> 
> Now, if you don't want to do that, you have two other options. One option is to move. It doesn't matter why you moved there, you can move out. If you do not see that as a viable option any more than the court option, then start a campaign in that state, or throw your energy and enthusiasm into one that is already organized and moving forward. That would do a lot more good than people from out of state voicing there opinion.
> 
> Good luck; we need all states on board with the notion of protecting those things which we were endowed by God.


Who says we're good with it?


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## SARGE7402 (Nov 18, 2012)

Diver said:


> Who says we're good with it?


I would guess that the majority of folks that live in New Jersey or else there would be a grass roots movement - like has happened in other states - to correct the problem.

Just curious, if you're so unhappy with the state of affairs in Jersey, why are you staying?

And you never did answer if you know Snooki.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Smitty901 said:


> As some of you know I live out of town .This evening I notice activity down at our other house where there should be none . I was not overly concerned so The dog stayed inside( he is not very nice sometimes) and I walked down to see what was going on. Noticed someone in the Dark approaching me just as I reached to remove my weapon I hear him say xxxx county officer. By this time he has a light on and I of course push weapon back in and remove my hand. I informed him I was armed and where it was . His response. Thank you for informing me. I had no idea what was going on at this point . I ask him if he wish to disarm me. His response. No need. We then talked about why he was there. He was looking for information . Turns out I knew what he needed to know.
> I invited him in the house. What I had forgotten was the AR 15 on the table I had just finished cleaning. No reaction from him.
> This is an example of how LEO and law biding citizens should enter act. I would have had no issue with him disarming me had he done so.
> Private property and CC I am under no requirement to inform unless he ask. However I will always inform.
> Respect goes both ways when it does everyone wins.


very respectful and you were REASONABLE...


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The "rest of the country" has no business objecting to NJ laws. As per the Tenth Amendment.
> As a Southerner, I am a firm believer in States Rights. If you do not like YOUR states laws, change them, or move. Remember, NJ was one of the victors in the War Of Northern Aggression, which was fought over States Rights.


individual rights trump states rights, states rights trump federal powers not granted to the Feds by the constitution.
2A and 14A trump any state laws governing weapons
When the state's corrupt political system is held accountable by the court system ( might as well be a circus court now) the world will be a better place.

I believe 13 or 23 ( I can't remember) states have file briefs on the side of the people suing NYS over the safe act.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

csi-tech said:


> I have no idea how New York's gun laws have survived any challenges. I fall under LEOSA so (I'd have to double check) I can carry in NYC. I bet that would burn them up too.


you can carry in the streets of NYC, you just can't enter the 911 memorial armed. apparently only on duty NYPD could enter that place armed, no excptions. even if all the males in your family was called to take up arms to fight the terrorist. the story of my life, I get called if there is a problem and somethig dangerous have to be taken care of. if all is well, I get treated like trash.


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