# Thoughts on unions



## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

Unions at risk? Supreme Court justices voice skepticism toward forced dues | Fox News

I was looking around and saw this article. Personally, I don't agree with unions. I don't think they are necessary anymore. I think they are more along the lines of extortionists. If they want more money, they threaten a strike. There was an interview done with an employee of GM, if I remember correctly, some years back when the economy was going to crap. He was whining about how he had to sell his vacation beach home and some toys. He sits in the a/c, and turns bolts. How does that deserve pay high enough to afford a beach home and toys? There's people, like myself, who work their asses off and can't afford that kind of stuff. A guy I used to work for had a guy ask him about a job operating dozers and other heavy equipment. He said he'd start the guy at $15 an hour and it'll go up from there. He balked at the offer and said "Up in Kansas I was getting $30 something with the union"! This is in Texas mind you. Boss man pretty much laughed him away. What's your thoughts? Especially those of you who have worked union jobs or know someone who has.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

The early labor movement did a lot. Now they primarily keep jobs for the otherwise lazy and stupid.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

First, I'll break unions down into 2 categories. Government Service Unions and Private Sector Unions.

Government Service Unions like the SEIU are in my opinion illegal and unconstitutional. They collectively give money to a candidate to put that candidate in office so they can "negotiate" with the candidate for their pay/benefit/retirement packages...ALL PAID FOR WITH TAX DOLLARS FROM ME AND YOU. How stupid are We The People to continue to allow this?

As far as Private Sector Unions. Let the free market determine if they are viable or not. 

(Disclaimer; Son 2 works for a large publicly traded Power Company and is IBEW.)


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

100 years ago there was a place for unions. In today's society with plenty of job opportunities in a variety of fields combined with modern transportation and the internet (for job hunting) there is no place for unions.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I agree. Unions most likely served a noble purpose back in the good old days but are now worse than worthless. We try not to buy anything which is supported by unions..most especially motor vehicles. That is a criminal enterprise.


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## Quip (Nov 8, 2012)

My job is a union job and was a closed shop until last year. Sure, I could leave the union but, I still had to pay dues. After 25 yrs. and only a little over a year until retirement I've decided to stay in for the remainder of the time. I really don't want to rock the boat at this point. The union does suck for the most part. I asked the union steward why I should pay dues and he answered he couldn't give me a good reason anymore. 

Retirees loose benefits every contract so I've decided to take the lump sum pension $$ and then drop the union on my way out the door as they still expect dues after retirement.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Well, I think I will chime in on this, too. After all, I've been a shop steward when a member of the Teamsters as well as the International Association of Machinists. I have also worked at non union jobs, too. I feel well rounded, but that could have more to do with the donuts I eat.

Those who believe unions have no place in today's workplace have never worked at the places I have. They are still needed, today.

Anyone who thinks unions aren't as crooked as a mountain road doesn't have the experience in unions I do.

But Denton, you say, you are suggesting both sides are not your favorite entities. Yes, that is correct. Why is that? Because people are involved, and they are not to be trusted.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

onions? they taste great, uh wait you said union didn't yah --oops my bad.


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## Operator6 (Oct 29, 2015)

I have a friend that likes to let the union send their guys to school then when they are taught well he hires them away from the union. 

Unions also keep prices high so he can undercut them and still make a huge profit.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> The early labor movement did a lot. Now they primarily keep jobs for the otherwise lazy and stupid.


^^^^This. Unions started as a good thing and were turned into money taking (not making) machines for politics which is just wrong.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I think at one time unions had a place but have outlived their usefulness. I belonged to a union in Chicago and hated it. Fortunately, I moved into management and never looked back. I live in Texas which is a right to work state so unions are not strong here. I can't understand why anyone would pay someone 40 bucks an hour to drive a forklift. ( That's what they get up north as I understand it. May be wrong about that ) I have done it. It's not that hard. On the other hand my aunt worked for Foster Forbes in Wisconsin for 30 years and paid union dues all those years. retired early and is pretty set for her life with great benefits. I think for the most part they are no longer viable and mostly corrupt. Not that they weren't then, they always have been.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

So..... what you all are saying is you wish you had a good union job! Yeah sucks to be raked over the coals by a tyrant employer doesn't it. Raised a family on union wages. Will have a fat retirement from a union job! Sucks to be you guys.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Congrats Hawg. It works for some people.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Prepared One said:


> Congrats Hawg. It works for some people.


And despite contrary belief not all unions especially trade unions are like the UAW. Not all union workers are lazy. Not all members vote democratic.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

10/4 your are correct. I guess what turned me off is when I found out the union I belonged to was contributing to various local politicians. There was big blow up at the time about it and I thought.....why is my money being donated to these crooks? I was young and didn't give a rats behind what the circumstances where. I thought it my money and the politicians of Chicago certainly didn't need my money. I was only in for 2 years or so then went into management. Then moved to Texas where unions are few and far in between. It was the oil boom of the early 80's and money was to be had.


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## thegaijin (Dec 13, 2015)

The predecessors to entitled people who believe the world owes them a living.


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## gambit (Sep 14, 2015)

I was a teamster when doing sanitation and they are still useful and needed 
todays rules companies must have 1 minority out of like what 5 whites or what crap it is , you can be cut to make room for a minority , how often dose some one with a strong work history and crap has to get passed over for some one who has crappy work history and a criminal record and first few words out the mouth at the interview is 'WHAT UP MOTHER ****A' and the white person wont get hire or they will be release just so they put some one else in because he happens to be a minority and this has happen allot ,unions dose help stop that from happening. but and a big 'BUT!' the draw back is they also make it harder to get the lazy or incompetent people out to replace with a good worker
and not all union jobs are for lazy people, I had to move a truck 15 feet job out "large trucks" run in the street grab what I post that day then job back in and keep going 
I will at high speed walking to full running I'll do about 20 plus miles easy a day and the trucks seat for me to move it is about 6 feet high 2 step outside to get in
I did recycling the bins can be heavy as 80 pounds news paper gets wet or full of snow then we have to put paper in one side plastic glass in the other
at the end of the day picked up a total of 8-16 tons by hand,
not adding the drug needles cars "all ready been hit ' and one case shot , we had people get nasty and thrown stuff at us 
some companies had it easier with tote dumpers but most do not have those
after 6+years I have ' ALL 100% ' cartilage in both knees shoulder that is less then 40% mobility and strength narrowing of the spin and bone spurs all over that they don't want to risk removing and more and I always had to work every holiday but Christmas was the only one I didn't have to work, we loved holidays it was double time pay but we cant work more then 8 hours and that's the only time I ever worked less then 10
after all said and done 6+ years and I am not proud but after said and done $15.15 dollars an hour is shitty pay yes my benefits was great but living in NY that money hardly pays for much and I have never worked under 10 hours a day we allot of times will skip lunch and 15 minute break just so we can go home early , and most people will leave in 3 years tops because its a shitty job trust me on the poop I had grabbed so much of it I lost count
when my father was young they had it far worse in steel plants coal miners and what not its why I have high respect for people who worked like that for chump change 
a job is a job and when there is not many jobs you take what you can get and be happy with it, and when places like buffalo new York flint michigan places those don't have much jobs and hungry people always looking and companies will use that to have lower pay and harder work because person can be replaced like a hiccup and a real teamsters union helps with that not happening to hard working people
some places need teamster so they don't get walked over or replaces but
and most are not a fan of Obama, Obamacare put a huge slow down on companies hiring full time workers and that made workers work harder when help is needed.
plus you will fine most workers are more republican then democrat well not the minority 'blacks' those who do vote will vote for any body on the democrat side even is it is a pet rock 
sorry for the long pointless rant to some but I hope it helps people understand not all unions are bad
I best head back to my pool

EDIT forgot to mention the wage cap was $17.15 at the time and it would taken 15-20 years to reach and in my distract only 1 person made it that high he left the day of the 15th year only because 4+ years he was out due to having a lift hook pretty much impaled him it crushed his heart and lung and bones we have no clue how the hell he lived once so ever ,thou i like to note he said he seen glowing people with rainbow like aura ,he did die on the way to the ER and during surgery I am not very religious but that makes any one think twice after seeing the aftermath of that hook did and why he did not stay dead


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Slippy said:


> First, I'll break unions down into 2 categories. Government Service Unions and Private Sector Unions.
> 
> Government Service Unions like the SEIU are in my opinion illegal and unconstitutional. They collectively give money to a candidate to put that candidate in office so they can "negotiate" with the candidate for their pay/benefit/retirement packages...ALL PAID FOR WITH TAX DOLLARS FROM ME AND YOU. How stupid are We The People to continue to allow this?
> 
> ...


Government Service Unions aside, Son 2 works in a Conservative Southern State and there is little or no pressure from the Union to vote Dem. His company is well known for their safety program/record and according to him, the Union (IBEW) just makes it safer. When you're 60+ foot in the air strapped to a pole or in a metal bucket next to a million kajillion magahertz of death, safety is probably a good thing.

They have to produce, it ain't a job for the lazy...you get lazy and you get dead. Even the union can't protect the dead. The power needs to stay on for everyone and if it goes out, the company (and union) want the power to come back on for the consumers. BUT they both want it to come back on *safely* and all the men to be able to go home after each shift. That's right I said MEN. As of now, there are no women that have passed the requirements of the job in his division. Some have tried but failed and the union and the company have not attempted to get waivers to allow somebody to do the job that is not qualified. To me, that's the union and the company working together for the good of all. Not Political Correctness.

I suspect that with or without the Union, he would make about the same amount of money and maybe even have the same benefits, but probably not the pension as the trend today from companies is to eliminate their pension programs. He's not guaranteed any overtime, but he's "guaranteed" the overtime, (wink wink) in other words its there if you need it and most men accept it and don't mind it. The thank the union for that wether or not its true.

So overall in his young working life, the Union seems to be a good thing for him and not nearly as intrusive as some believe.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I am also in a union job. The USW aka Steelworkers. On a national level I disagree with them, especially on political stuff. But down at the local level I've seen them do some good for us guys on the production floor. But they use strong-arm tactics too. Try working in the local factory or paper mill without paying dues to USW. You won't be there long...


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

In order to work at a UAW job here at Spring Hill Manufacturing you must be Union and pay Union dues. I can choose never to work there and never to buy a General Motors product. That's how I voice my dissent. Mary Barra and her cronies have gotten away with criminally negligent homicide for years. They knew their product was deadly and covered it up. I despise GM. My choice.

My son works at Nissan, a non-union employer. Do they have to be competitive with a Union shop to keep people employed? Yes. So there are some trickle down benefits but overall I think unions are rife with corruption and have always been in bed with snakes.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I was a loyal member of steelworkers union. I kept getting these pro-Obama articles in my Union magazine. Mine you I work in the heart coal country and work at a coal fired power plant. Unions around here at least would endorse the devil himself if he was a registered democrat. I had enough steelworkers maybe funneling money to help get and keep democrats in office but they won't be using my money any longer.


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## Leeroy Jenkins (May 16, 2015)

I'm a firefighter and my Union has done great things for us. Mostly in the area of presumptive risk for cardiac disease and cancer. It's nice knowing if I get sick or die from those 2 awful diseases my family is going to be taken care of. I've also used our union for other reasons and it's worked out quite well. Stuff like education,peer and professional support for PTSD and some financial advice for when I retire at 55 with an 80% retirement.:armata_PDT_36:


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## beaknspurs (Jan 12, 2016)

I am a new member here. I am also a U.A. Pipefitter, have been since 2002. As a union member I will enjoy a nice retirement. I make a decent wage for a 8 hr. Day's work ohh ya and weekends offDue to unions. I'll It has flaws I agree. I get paid for my knowledge and skill. Not trying to start a scuffle but it has treated me well.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Denton said:


> Because people are involved, and they are not to be trusted.


That sums up 99 percent of society.


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## bfdast (Nov 30, 2015)

Yes firefighters union here, the union in general is great but I don't agree with our local and I don't always agree with the international. If it's run like it should they protect you. Our city was fighting to make us a volly dept but our local all the way up to national sent a team to defend us. Needless to say the city doesn't screw around with us anymore!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> The early labor movement did a lot. Now they primarily keep jobs for the otherwise lazy and stupid.


Amen, Amen, and Amen....


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

So, I am now being called lazy _and_ stupid.

Sigh.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Denton said:


> So, I am now being called lazy _and_ stupid.
> 
> Sigh.


You didn't know?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Moonshinedave said:


> You didn't know?


Better to hear it from friends, I suppose.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> So, I am now being called lazy _and_ stupid.
> 
> Sigh.


And that was the nice things your ex'es had to say!


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Our Fire Fighters love their Union. It has done nothing to improve anything where pay and benefits are concerned because we cannot collectively bargain here. The UAW has allowed people to drink and smoke marijuana on the job and certainly have made some employees fireproof. Some of my neighbors put in a full day and were great employees I think.

True story:

Right after GM built a plant in Spring Hill I had a driver I suspected of DUI flee from me. I engaged in a pursuit (no policy regarding pursuits back then) he fled to the plant and they allowed him in. They stepped in front of me and said I couldn't enter. Under Tennessee law I could go anywhere to apprehend a suspect provided I was engaged in "fresh pursuit". I ordered the little gate guard to step aside or they would be charged with obstruction. I located my guy and gave him the tasks etc. and he refused to go with me until his steward was present. There was a big wig who said I could not leave with their employee under Union laws. It was really weird. Of course I left and locked the hguy up but it caused a huge mess. I think Union power in Michigan is or was almost absolute and supersedes state and local law in some cases. Not so much here.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Denton said:


> Better to hear it from friends, I suppose.


Or us


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

csi-tech said:


> Our Fire Fighters love their Union. It has done nothing to improve anything where pay and benefits are concerned because we cannot collectively bargain here. The UAW has allowed people to drink and smoke marijuana on the job and certainly have made some employees fireproof. Some of my neighbors put in a full day and were great employees I think.
> 
> True story:
> 
> Right after GM built a plant in Spring Hill I had a driver I suspected of DUI flee from me. I engaged in a pursuit (no policy regarding pursuits back then) he fled to the plant and they allowed him in. They stepped in front of me and said I couldn't enter. Under Tennessee law I could go anywhere to apprehend a suspect provided I was engaged in "fresh pursuit". I ordered the little gate guard to step aside or they would be charged with obstruction. I located my guy and gave him the tasks etc. and he refused to go with me until his steward was present. There was a big wig who said I could not leave with their employee under Union laws. It was really weird. Of course I left and locked the hguy up but it caused a huge mess. I think Union power in Michigan is or was almost absolute and supersedes state and local law in some cases. Not so much here.


I don't understand how union law can override real, actual law. Politicians I assume allowed this to happen? The Toyota plant south of town isn't union. The usual hourly and salary jobs. I've heard of a few places in Texas that tried to unionize, the employer said go ahead but you'll be out of a job if you do! I guess I could see it being a good thing as long as the people were honest, not greedy or political about it. But, we are talking about humans so that wouldn't last long. Still though, if a union job was offered to me I'd still turn it down.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Why the union hate? Jealous of being able negotiate wages and benefits? Jealous of the security that your boss can't come in one day with a burr up his ass and fire you because he woke up on the wrong side of the bed?


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## jerry49 (Sep 11, 2015)

Im a union member i get paid more then my old none union hourly job doing same work and work load " believe it or not!" i have never been happier if i was a union hatter i would have never taken the job and i would not be where im at today  its a free country and if a group of people want to work as a team to get more money a say why not ? If u dont like it go work some where else and the next time u ask your boss for a raise u can use my union $ wage to get one or maybe u quit and go union . 
FYI not all union strikes work to there benefit many times business have won and union losses no different then every day hire and fire of employees except its group of people that choose to go as a team


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Unions brought safety to the work place. 
Unions brought a 40 hour work week.
Unions brought overtime pay after 40 hours
Unions brought paid vacations
Unions brought paid holidays off with family. 
Unions brought health insurance to a workers family.
Unions brought fair wages for skilled labor.

Sure is a lot of hate for what somone else is able to secure. Don't like a union shop? Simple... dont apply for a job there since you will do so much better without a union keeping tyrant employers in check.


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

csi-tech said:


> Our Fire Fighters love their Union. It has done nothing to improve anything where pay and benefits are concerned because we cannot collectively bargain here. The UAW has allowed people to drink and smoke marijuana on the job and certainly have made some employees fireproof. Some of my neighbors put in a full day and were great employees I think.
> 
> True story:
> 
> Right after GM built a plant in Spring Hill I had a driver I suspected of DUI flee from me. I engaged in a pursuit (no policy regarding pursuits back then) he fled to the plant and they allowed him in. They stepped in front of me and said I couldn't enter. Under Tennessee law I could go anywhere to apprehend a suspect provided I was engaged in "fresh pursuit". I ordered the little gate guard to step aside or they would be charged with obstruction. I located my guy and gave him the tasks etc. and he refused to go with me until his steward was present. There was a big wig who said I could not leave with their employee under Union laws. It was really weird. Of course I left and locked the hguy up but it caused a huge mess. I think Union power in Michigan is or was almost absolute and supersedes state and local law in some cases. Not so much here.


Union shop for 33 years in Mi. I never heard of such a thing as union laws as you state.


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## txmarine6531 (Nov 18, 2015)

Unions are few and far between in Texas, as far as I know. I know no one that has ever had one, therefore I know next to nothing about them other than what I read about or see on tv. Here, it would be hard to get one started IMO. Majority of the jobs here, there's a line of people that will take your job without a union. I guess it would take the entire local population to agree to unions. I don't know. One of the reasons I started this thread was to get the views and opinions of those who have or had union jobs. I appreciate the input from you guys, gives me a different view of unions.


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## epwrangler (May 1, 2015)

Leeroy Jenkins said:


> I'm a firefighter and my Union has done great things for us. Mostly in the area of presumptive risk for cardiac disease and cancer. It's nice knowing if I get sick or die from those 2 awful diseases my family is going to be taken care of. I've also used our union for other reasons and it's worked out quite well. Stuff like education,peer and professional support for PTSD and some financial advice for when I retire at 55 with an 80% retirement.:armata_PDT_36:


The perfect example of excess. How underfunded are your over generous benefits? Most firefighters would be shocked at the ponzy scheme called retirement benefits. All air and no cash. Ask questions.


gambit said:


> I was a teamster when doing sanitation and they are still useful and needed
> todays rules companies must have 1 minority out of like what 5 whites or what crap it is , you can be cut to make room for a minority , how often dose some one with a strong work history and crap has to get passed over for some one who has crappy work history and a criminal record and first few words out the mouth at the interview is 'WHAT UP MOTHER ****A' and the white person wont get hire or they will be release just so they put some one else in because he happens to be a minority and this has happen allot ,unions dose help stop that from happening. but and a big 'BUT!' the draw back is they also make it harder to get the lazy or incompetent people out to replace with a good worker
> and not all union jobs are for lazy people, I had to move a truck 15 feet job out "large trucks" run in the street grab what I post that day then job back in and keep going
> I will at high speed walking to full running I'll do about 20 plus miles easy a day and the trucks seat for me to move it is about 6 feet high 2 step outside to get in
> ...


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## jerry49 (Sep 11, 2015)

Im IBEW union and also a voted trump as far as im concerned this is a free country and if people want to team up to make more money and better jobs why not.

I work very hard at my job im not sure where this lazy union job is at ? I get breaks i get a lunch i even get great benefits . I also know most people wont believe this but i can get fired ! No different then any other job if anything its worse . For example a DWI at my old non union job would not get you fired but at union job you are toast


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

jerry49 said:


> Im IBEW union and also a voted trump as far as im concerned this is a free country and if people want to team up to make more money and better jobs why not.
> 
> I work very hard at my job im not sure where this lazy union job is at ? I get breaks i get a lunch i even get great benefits . I also know most people wont believe this but i can get fired ! No different then any other job if anything its worse . For example a DWI at my old non union job would not get you fired but at union job you are toast


I'm union too and although all unions have their issues I think Government unions are the ones most of us have a problem with.

Sent from a Galaxy S5 far far away.


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

Why can't unions exist like our constitution envisioned groups of assembly? The forced collection of dues needs to end. Either the organization provides its members a value they want to buy or it doesn't. Let them prove their worth and if they can't let them go away.


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> I'm union too and although all unions have their issues I think Government unions are the ones most of us have a problem with.


* *** Warning: Long post below! *** *

Sorry, Sasquatch, but I have problems with *all* unions. Please allow me to rage and vent for a moment. lol

*[RAGE]*

IMO, the *only* reason they exist today is because they funnel money and power to the Democratic party, and allow them to hold sway over vast swatches of the population and government. More so than they ever could any other way.

When unions first started getting formed, employee abuse was rampant, and working conditions were unsafe in many areas. Obviously something needed to be done, and the solution workers seemed to go for was unions. OK,, fine. But now everything those early unions fought for (safe conditions, no company script, reasonable hours, no child labor, etc, etc) are all now codified into law. No one is being forced to work for sub minimum wage, 70 hours a week in an environment that could kill you at any moment with no company liability, carrying caustic chemicals that can kill you in a simple bucket, and getting 50% of your check in company script.

So why do unions still exist? What are they fighting for now, and what do they stand for?

What the unions stand for now is just sheer ridiculousness.
$15/hour to flip burgers?
$20/hr+ for assembly line jobs? Does "put tab A in slot B" really need $20+ per hour?
Crazy number of breaks, holidays, etc?
Mandatory overtime after 8 hours/per, mandatory OT on holidays, mandatory double time on "super holidays"?
Cadillac health plans no employer one can afford.
Require companies to pay for sex-changes.
Asinine amount of vacation days?
Automatic mandatory raises just because you've been there (and not performance based).
Seniority? AKA "You can't fire me no matter what I do! The Union says you can't!"
Forcing companies to hire back piss-poor workers because the union says they have to?
The "right" to strike and shut down a PRIVATE company or a public office/department the public depends on?
The "right" to tell a PRIVATE company or a public office/department the public depends on that they are now a "union shop" and can ONLY hire union people.

And the list goes on. No, not all unions have the list above, but many have a lot of them. Hell, with the exception of the listed wages per hour, my local Teacher's Union has EVERY ONE of them, plus a ton I didn't add. The result is that there are entire fields where American companies cannot compete 1:1 w/ companies in China, Mexico, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, etc because our employee costs are way too high. Manufacturing, textiles, etc. Why can't you buy an American made TV anymore? Why can't you find affordable T-shirts made in the USA? Why are more and more auto plants moving to Mexico, Canada, anywhere but the US? Both political parties are guilty on this last issue but the problem is still there. Even if the parts were the same cost, taxes the same, etc, you just can't get past the fact that those industries all unionized, and American union workers make too damn much to complete on that level.

I will NEVER accept as Constitutional the fact someone can start a PRIVATE company w/ their OWN $$$, hire a bunch of workers at salary "X" and benefits policy "Y", and suddenly their employees vote to unionize and the employer has *no legal recourse* to stop it. Then the union "collectively bargains" with the employer (AKA gives them a list of demands) and it's either meet these demands or we strike. Sure, there's sometimes mediation, but if it gets to an impasse, they can strike anyway. Suddenly, that employer is paying more than he ever wanted to (and way more then the original hires agreed to when taking the job), the benefit package he has to offer is 3x as expensive, and he's looking at massive OT bills, mandatory raises instead of performance based incentives, expanded vacations and time off rules, etc.

Sure, you can tell me I'm biased, I have it all wrong, etc. But I saw this first hand w/ my own family. Here's 3 examples...

*1)* My grandfather was an electrician his entire working life. Learned the trade when he was a young teen in the 40's until his retirement in the early '90's. He was forced to join the union (when he retired he was a member of IBEW, but I don't know what union he originally joined) because it's IMPOSSIBLE to work as an electrician in this area w/o being in the Union. Hell, even if a homeowner hires a non-union electrician to do some work *in their own home* you can still have trouble. If you're using non-union labor, good luck getting your permits approved by a union government employee. **** luck getting your work to pass inspection from that union inspector. Hell, good luck getting that inspector to even show the hell up to sothe inspection! Even if you do, or you have the clout to force it, you may still wind up with people picketing your bloody house! No, I'm not kidding. Sorry, I digress. Anyway, Grandpa joined the union because he had to, he never attended a meeting, never joined a strike/picket line. He did however get in massive trouble two times for crossing a picket line. My grandfather was a good man, and a man of his word. If he gave you that word, you could take it to the bank like it was money. Both times he crossed a line it was to finish a project that he gave his word on, and the union chose to strike/picket afterwards. First time he was beaten within an inch of his life and spent time in the hospital recovering. It happened in front of roughly 50 or 60 people (strikers and picketers), and "no one saw anything". The second time he would up being blacklisted, and nearly went out of business for the several years following that event.

*2)* On the other side of that coin, there's my uncle. He was also an electrician, taught the trade by my grandfather. He was a union loyalist (UAW), ardent democrat and liberal. A real "life of the party" kind of guy and his co-workers loved him. One day while the whole family was out on the river (we enjoyed boating) he was screwing around while water skiing. End result, he mangled his ankle and knee permanently. He worked for a large company that had both local and governmental contracts to manufacture parts for machines, machine tools, aircraft, naval vessels, etc, and his job required him to be able to climb a ladder for hours at a time. He knew he was looking at the inability to do his job, a job he liked and was well paid for I might add. So his union brothers came up w/ a plan. No no, he was fishing all weekend and was fine. What happened was he had a "work related fall" from one of those ladders, and "hurt his ankle and knee at work". Several loyal union brothers came forward to say that they had witnessed the accident, and as a result the company had to pay his medical bills, disability. He was then made a shop steward and transferred to a paper-pushing job. Since he could no longer get OT, they forced the employer to increase his base pay to match what he was getting before including his OT.

*3)* My father-in-law used to work for the State we live in as a supervisor in a department that had direct dealing with the public. He was a union member for over 20 years. He chose to leave the job and start his own company that provided the kind of medical transportation service that he was seeing the state use more and more of. Basically he saw an opportunity and decided to "go private sector" and take advantage of this opportunity. For years, my FIL did not only his job each day, but half of his useless bosses job as well. I'm sure that many of us, union and non-union alike, can relate to that. When he left, his former boss was pissed and decided to start bad-mouthing him. The dude had some connections and started a low-level "blacklisting" of my FIL. Initially my FILs company was a success, enough so that they decided to expand. They wanted to bid for a new contract that came up, and got it. Part of the requirement was that they had to have a minimum # of seats in the dispatch center, hence the expansion. They submitted bids, got approved for permits, zoning, etc. With these approvals, and the deposits that were paid, and proof of funding for the expansion work, they were eligible to bid on the contract. Suddenly there were delays on the project. You see, the suburb of Shitcago where they had heir office is TOTALLY union controlled. You can't do ANY electrical work unless you are a union certified electrician. This even included "low-voltage wiring". In case you don't know, that includes (I shit you not) network wiring. Even plugging in a 6' network patch cable. Suddenly the electricians they contracted had a "job run long" delaying them for a week. Then two weeks. FIL dropped them and hired a different company that came and started the job of expanding the cubicles. Suddenly, they had to drop the job and return the part of the deposit that didn't cover work already done. No explanation given. FIL shopped around, and could get no other electricians to take the job. When they failed to get the dispatch center expanded in time, they lost the contract. When their current contract was up, they lost it too, and failed to get any more. FIL found out later it was because he had been blacklisted by the union.

Just from what I have seen in my own family, in addition to what I see in the news, hear from friends, etc, tells me that today's "unions" are more like organized criminal syndicates than actual employee unions. I fail to see what legitimate purpose they serve, and why they even need to exist in today's world.

*[/RAGE]*


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I remember my step dad talking about working a construction job.. he was holding up a board and ask a fellow walking by to had him some nails.. they guy said I am union, that is not my job


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## stowlin (Apr 25, 2016)

The unions support the minimum wage increase because a lot of union construction contracts are tied to multiples of the minimum wage. We have one here in SF that requires employees on public projects to earn 6.5x minimum wage. We at $10 an hour they are assured $65 per hour, but at 15 per hour they get a raise to $97.50.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

When JFK was assassinated, I was working in a closed union shop, United Steelworkers of America, I W Abel was union president.

In that place it was needed, we worked 12 hours a day and 13 days straight, with alternating Sundays off.

time and a half for over 8 and double for sunday, double and a half over 8 on sunday.

Bought a new Corvette from it for cash, Arctic white convertible with glass roof and 327 FI with 4 speed with Hurst comp. shifter. 

What I did not like was them telling us who to vote for in elections, insisted we have democrat party stickers on our cars or else.

I led drive to get the same union in another sweatshop almost a decade later, turned down the steward position,

I did it for the production workers who were getting screwed.

Today It should be optional join or not, no forced dues either, no more closed shops.

I can't say about the construction trades, most guys are always at the hall looking to pick up work, totally different from me.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

From what I saw being on both sides of the fence. The Unions were needed in skilled crafts. But in Government workers they were a scam. In the end the Unions of all types were taken over by the socialist and sold the workers out. Some have woken up to that , others still drinking the kool aid. The Unions used them and left them.
Look at the coal workers.


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