# Ammunition - It May Get Worse



## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

This is an update on my ammo frenzy thread because this is a slightly different point of view / topic on the ammo frenzy upon us. I was discussing with a friend who follows California's legislature more closely than I this morning regarding gun legislation. Making its way thru the committees and almost certain to PASS is a $.05 per round of ammo tax. In one of the committees this was reduced to .05 from .10 at the governors' bequest. The only real hope CA's had was the governor stopping this - it looks like the legislature is willing to appease him by reducing the tax in half. Now of course that means a brick of 22LR just went up $25.00 in taxes. This may not be a big deal to the .308 users and my lapua but I shoot a lot of 22LR and it bites big time. But wait - there is more.

The last committee update on this act added the SAME tax to reloading components! YES a .05 per primer, .05 per brass and .05 per projectile. Reloading - the savior of high prices - is about to get 3x more expensive then buying factory new ammo. Well that's a spin but you can see the math and how I meant it. 

Now for those in FREE America this clearly won't impact you, but I think it will. Once this gets closer to passage this summer the FRENZY in CA is going to become grotesque. You will find CA gun owners (with big budgets and thirst for ammo) soaking it up - out of YOUR markets with every dollar they can muster. The closer this gets to passage - the worse this is going to get for all of us.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Black Market ammo! Just like cigarettes in New York City. I'll move bullets in by the pallet from the free United States and make a fortune! Does the Kalifornia regime torture for that?


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

So does this mean that gunshops specializing in .22 RF ammo will start springing up on the Cali border. Maybe...lol


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## Old Man (Dec 10, 2012)

I don't see ammo getting easier for @ year or two. In our little town walmart gets delivery on Monday,Wednesday, and Friday. Most of the time they get 2 box or two of this and a box or two of that. Gone in 30 second!


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## Kidzthinkimahoarder (Feb 11, 2013)

We continue to scour stores here with no luck. Once they hit, they leave just as quick as well...


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Cook County in which Chicago is located has or will institute a 5 cent per round tax on ammo + $25 tax on all fire arms. The money is touted to go to medical benefits for the innocent victims of gun violence.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

Looks like you'll have to make semi-annual trips into Nevada to buy ammo. Might want to check that bill out and see if it'll make it a crime to bring ammo in from another state. NY SAFE Act says all ammo purchases are now subject to a background check and must be conducted in person (no more internet purchases) but doesn't say anything about purchasing ammo out of state and bringing it back. How's that for stupidity? BTW did they kill the statewide lead ammo ban they were pushing or did that pass? Between those 2 bills you'll see ammo prices skyrocket very quickly if they both pass. 

-Infidel


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm ok for the time being, and it's all part of why I want out of ILLANNOYED


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

Here in Northern Nevada the Walmarts and volume ammo stores in Carson City and Reno are usually picked clean by ammo flippers or Cali's before most locals can get there. I have my pre panic stash but my shooting habits have changed to preserve it. Only things I have been able to score lately are 7.62x39mm and 12 gauge.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

thanks for the heads up ripon. 

i dont like this!


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## IngaLisa (Jan 31, 2013)

It's bad here too. I'm in the Great Lakes region. Pretty much nada.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Im afraid that once this stupidity that is california catches on with the rest of the Liberal loving world that life will suck pretty bad for all of us. I guess the second this drought eases up I am going to have to go on a shopping spree and stay on it till I have a life time supply of reloading components. I used to look fear death when my time comes but I have to be honest with you...the last 4 years has actually found me looking forward to that day in coming. But I am sure my government will still find a way to still rob me blind and rape me silly from the grave, its just what Liberals do.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I have Great Lakes all around me and I saw lots of ammo at the Gun Show. I even traded away 250-9's,1050-22lr, and 100-380's

Cabelas, and WalMart were flush with ammo on Sunday. The gougers are getting stuck with their ammo now.


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## Kpharr (Mar 1, 2013)

Nothing in the Dallas area. I hope that the large price gouges go out of business when everything calms down. One of which is Cheaper than Dirt!!! I would never buy anything from them!


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

AquaHull said:


> I have Great Lakes all around me and I saw lots of ammo at the Gun Show. I even traded away 250-9's,1050-22lr, and 100-380's
> 
> Cabelas, and WalMart were flush with ammo on Sunday. The gougers are getting stuck with their ammo now.


Hope this spreads out my way.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Please don't take this as a defense of cheaper then dirt; I am not fond of them and have not used them. I do have a friend with a gun shop nearby. He's caught the same flak from many shooters / customers for "over" pricing ammunition in recent months. I've worked for John many times as a fill in employee and do so with pleasure and like it very much. The fact is simple. If he does not over price it - its gone. When its all gone he has no need for employees and has to cut hours for his staff - even his store. My God man he closed the week before Christmas and stayed closed thru New Years Day because he had NO inventory worth opening for. He literally had 2 shotguns and 3 single action revolvers in stock for firearms. You can't open the door for gun safes, cases, holsters and cleaning gear. Everything else was gone.

I watch as so called conservative free market libertarians (et al) b & m about a gun shop offering a 1000 rounds of 223 for $899. Its real simple. Its there or its not. If they list it for $799 its gone. Then these people complain they don't have anything. Until the dealers can stock up and put something on their shelves there is nothing to deal. Once they get some inventory built up they can reduce prices - until then its just going to get worse.



Kpharr said:


> Nothing in the Dallas area. I hope that the large price gouges go out of business when everything calms down. One of which is Cheaper than Dirt!!! I would never buy anything from them!


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## Kpharr (Mar 1, 2013)

I agree that the Ma and Pa stores are the ones getting hurt the most. I make a point to support my local shops by purchasing supples from them. What chaps my butt is the attitude at the cheaper than dirt McKinney store. The flaunt the fact they they have inventory, but we do live in capitalistic country. Law of supply and demand. I am always willing to pay a bit more for the wonderful service the smaller stores offer. Great point, and thanks for making it


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## punch (Nov 6, 2012)

I have to agree. Sportsmans guide is no better. I have no problem supporting local small businessman.

punch


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## Juggernaut (Feb 15, 2013)

Everything is really bad in my parts too. 5 rounds of buckshot $7.99! Local shop wanted 15 dollars for birdshot! -_- and even 7.62x54 is increasing in price gradually.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Ha ! Found one not gouging and in stock today. To bad customer service really sucked. I am out picking up a buddy at the air port, and so on the way I stop at Bass Pro. I got $50 left to spend and wanted to get something matching any of my guns particularly on the low end. I find a box of 16 gage #2 shot doe $32.99 ugh. I ask the clerk if they have any clay type 7.5s / 8s in 16 ga to which he blows me off with "no" and a grimace walking away. I walk thru other areas of the hunting, camping etc, and decide to pass thru the shelves of shotgun rounds again on the way out. Low and behold for $8.99 a box they got Federal 7.5s sitting right there. I walked my 4 boxes out to the counter and made my mention of the inept loser behind the gun counter. I have an old Model 12 16 Ga from my moms' dad. It's got a terrific history and I had only a few boxes do shells for it. I'm really glad to add the cheap rounds to my storage. They are great for dove / quayle and the like.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I guess you never know until the chips are down. I have an all new respect for Cabelas going through this time. Generally, when they have ammo they sell it at decent prices, I'm talking $8.99 per 100 .22LR, they limit you to usually one box per customer, which helps get it into as many hands as possible. Other good prices for different sizes too. They don't stay in stock often, so a person has to check often and be patent you can order online and have it shipped to your local store for no S/H or $5.00 shipped to your home.
Everyone has to make their own choice I guess, I personally, refuse to pay inflated prices for ammo. I have an decent stock at home, and will wait them out. It's not like gasoline, something I pretty much have to have. I still go to the gun range not quite as often, and shoot much fewer rounds, but, the shots I now take I pay much more attention to details of my shooting, and don't result to just throwing lead down range after awhile.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Kpharr said:


> Nothing in the Dallas area. I hope that the large price gouges go out of business when everything calms down. One of which is Cheaper than Dirt!!! I would never buy anything from them!





Ripon said:


> Please don't take this as a defense of cheaper then dirt; I am not fond of them and have not used them. I do have a friend with a gun shop nearby. He's caught the same flak from many shooters / customers for "over" pricing ammunition in recent months. I've worked for John many times as a fill in employee and do so with pleasure and like it very much. The fact is simple. If he does not over price it - its gone. When its all gone he has no need for employees and has to cut hours for his staff - even his store. My God man he closed the week before Christmas and stayed closed thru New Years Day because he had NO inventory worth opening for. He literally had 2 shotguns and 3 single action revolvers in stock for firearms. You can't open the door for gun safes, cases, holsters and cleaning gear. Everything else was gone.
> 
> I watch as so called conservative free market libertarians (et al) b & m about a gun shop offering a 1000 rounds of 223 for $899. Its real simple. Its there or its not. If they list it for $799 its gone. Then these people complain they don't have anything. Until the dealers can stock up and put something on their shelves there is nothing to deal. Once they get some inventory built up they can reduce prices - until then its just going to get worse.


I will never buy so much as a bore brush from Cheaper Than Dirt ever again. Right after Sandy Hook they jumped their MagPul prices up to $99 a mag and jumped $650 AR's to $1000, and Colt M4's to $2500. At one point their PMC .223 was at $1.75 a round. I understand Ripon's point, and don't necessarily disagree but the level CTD went to should be near criminal. It's like they lost their mind and turned their back on a large loyal customer base to have a short term price gouging orgy.

Kpharr, if you are close enough to go to the McKinney CTD store (we must be near neighbor's btw) then you should hop on down Hwy 5/Greenville/Plano Rd to Gun Masters. Yea a lot of their ammo is comming from a private consignee and can be a little pricey, but they also put out their own inventory when they get it in at whatcurrently stands for reasonable prices. I've seen the exact same 5.56 boxes next to each other and the store inventory selling for $11 a box while the consigned ammo sells for $23.

They will be upfront about the ammo prices on the shelves, but they are just trying to keep something on the shelf. They do however limit how much one person can buy so no one wipes out all the good deals when they have it.

They also have two of the best gunsmith's in our area to boot!


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## Old Man (Dec 10, 2012)

I have purchases a lot of ammo of the years from cheaper than dirt. I refuse to do business anymore with cheaper than dirt. They are great as long as you don,t mind getting screwed over. Not for me anymore.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Funny thing is I have bought 2 handguns from the Fort Worth store before things got bad. As soon as the rumors started flying they were the 1st to jump on the price jacking bandwagon. Even now they are higher priced still than many.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Just remember who the gougers are when things return to normal (whatever that is). 
I will not do business with Cheaper than Dirt, nor will do business with the shops who are screwing the public now
They can make all the excuses for jacked prices they want, truth is they are gouging!!


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

Ammo shortage=time to prep other in other areas. There is no point in crying foul or stating the obvious. When ammunition comes back resume prepping ammunition. Isn't this part of what prepping is about? Seeing it coming, hunkering down watching the stampede thunder by, and when the dust settles, look left look right before crossing the street.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

You refuse to do businss with the shop that raises his prices beyond belief.

Another refuses to do business with a shop that can't keep anything in stock.

Shop is screwed, goes out of business, and you are left with the "other" guy who just managed
the perception better and raises the prices due to the lack of competition.



tango said:


> Just remember who the gougers are when things return to normal (whatever that is).
> I will not do business with Cheaper than Dirt, nor will do business with the shops who are screwing the public now
> They can make all the excuses for jacked prices they want, truth is they are gouging!!


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

Yea, what's the movie line--- Greed is good
Don't care about your customers, just make as much as possible while you can. 
Hell, they'll come back when the dust settles, they always came here before---


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Yes, its pretty bad here in NM. I hooked up with a local ffl dealer, and got two pistols, but he is honestly thinking about not renewing becouse he can't get any inventory. I completely understand the inventory versus sales, and having to have some product on the shelves. My company that i've invested almost 9 long hard years, is starting to "look shaky", will more than likely have to let some good employees go in a week or three. I hope to keep my job.
Alas, the only way i see out of this mess is short term- people that have access and availability- take orders for friends, and ship them the ammo, cheaper than the guagers, and hope we pull throu this. STICK TOGETHER.
In the long term - we have to vote in some strong gun supporting candidates at every level to battle these snakes..STICK TOGETHER..
I am saving all my brass from the fiance and my 9, for a friend on here, we gotta start with actions..
The journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step..


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I guess it's a choice we all have to make. Me, personally, I will not pay inflated prices. My belief is this is still a supply and demand country, and as long as there are enough people willing to shell out twice or three times the worth for ammo, it will never go down. I search the internet at the very least once a day (most days 2 or 3 times) often I might find myself at odd hours 3 or 4am checking prices, in the last couple months, I can honestly say I have found ammo at a decent price for everything I own, EXCEPT 9MM, when I do, I order it. I just today came home with 666 rounds of .22LR at five cents a round, also 22 magnum at 28 cents a round. My advice: Don't pay inflated prices.
I see things simple, if there is a true shortage, then it cannot be bought at any price, simply because it's not there. When it is there, as much as you want, for 3 times the worth, that is not what I call a shortage, but rather someone trying to screw the consumer.


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## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

I will not return to stores that stick it to me - period. For every store that is trying to profit by hiking sales pricing there are good ones that are not. I have already dropped three stores and will never return. I just wish others would follow through with this practice as well. I'm not talking about a few bucks here but by raising the price of anything by 100% or more - they will never see me in their stores again.

1895gunner


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

So do you equate "sticking it to you" to them just wanting to find a price point where they can keep something in stock and keep their employees employed?



1895gunner said:


> I will not return to stores that stick it to me - period. For every store that is trying to profit by hiking sales pricing there are good ones that are not. I have already dropped three stores and will never return. I just wish others would follow through with this practice as well. I'm not talking about a few bucks here but by raising the price of anything by 100% or more - they will never see me in their stores again.
> 
> 1895gunner


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I think the higher prices are a good thing, even if it is a PITA first of all it cuts out the flipping, ensures there is some ammo available. 

When supply comes back competition kicks in and prices come down. I'm not going to throw any vendor under the bus for high prices...I will watch and when their prices come back down out of the stratosphere, and all things (but price) being equal and their price beats the other guys price I will buy from them...pretty simple 

Imagine if this was a for real crisis...for the caught with your pants down whiners...think of it as training for the real thing...because this will pass and you will get a second chance to get it right...lol


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Seneca said:


> I think the higher prices are a good thing, even if it is a PITA first of all it cuts out the flipping, ensures there is some ammo available.
> 
> When supply comes back competition kicks in and prices come down. I'm not going to throw any vendor under the bus for high prices...I will watch and when their prices come back down out of the stratosphere, and all things (but price) being equal and their price beats the other guys price I will buy from them...pretty simple...


But if the store is charging double, triple of quadruple the normal price, doesn't that make them just as bad as the flippers?


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

Ripon said:


> So do you equate "sticking it to you" to them just wanting to find a price point where they can keep something in stock and keep their employees employed?


So, if the owner takes $5,000 of ammo his price and sells it for $30,000 instead of $7,500 by selling it at old prices, its just because hes a nice guy?
If there is an ammo shortage, why is it there is plenty if you are willing to shell out the price? One would think none means none no matter the price.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Well, I can't argue with the logic of people willing to shell out big bucks. I've been lucky and stocked up when I had the chance of the years.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

I can only speak for what I have seen in a gun shop and because I've worked there and know the owner. Right now if he prices 223 1000 round cases at $699 they are 
gone in 72 hours maximum with no chance of restocking for 4 days period. He gets this delivery on Tuesday and if he prices it at 699 its gone by Friday and he has
no reason to employ his people over the weekend (at least several of the part timers). If he prices it at $799 it will likely still sell but most likely sell during the weekend
and he can at least tell people there is ammo in stock - the price is high. He actually priced some at $899 three weeks ago and told several people he needed to keep
it in stock if he could he had a large order of firearms coming in from Colt and wanted to have ammo there when the rifles arrived. At $899 he sold 2 cases and he
only gets 5 each Tuesday.

The only way the prices will ever return to normal is if they DON'T sell. The only way they DON'T sell it to raise the price.



Moonshinedave said:


> So, if the owner takes $5,000 of ammo his price and sells it for $30,000 instead of $7,500 by selling it at old prices, its just because hes a nice guy?
> If there is an ammo shortage, why is it there is plenty if you are willing to shell out the price? One would think none means none no matter the price.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

paraquack said:


> Well, I can't argue with the logic of people willing to shell out big bucks. I've been lucky and stocked up when I had the chance of the years.


I just went to CTD website, they were willing to sell me 100 boxes (10,000 rounds) of 9mm Luger (one of the hardest to find) if I was willing to shell out almost $9,000, there are many more sites just like them, I ask again, what ammo shortage?

*The only way the prices will ever return to normal is if they DON'T sell. The only way they DON'T sell it to raise the price. *
Ripon, I will agree with this, people need just to say "NO, I won't pay that price", as long as enough people are buying ammo at any price it won't go back down.
It's not like gasoline, I have to have gas to make it back and forth to work, and other places I need to go. Sadly, whatever the price of gasoline, I pretty much have to pay. Ammo, is a different story,I have enough, I can sit them out. I pick and choose, and when a good deal comes along (and deals do come along) I buy it.
Only the consumers can fix this problem, I am convinced of that.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Cheaper Than Dirt has been removed from "favorite vendor" status in my house.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

Ripon said:


> I can only speak for what I have seen in a gun shop and because I've worked there and know the owner. Right now if he prices 223 1000 round cases at $699 they are
> gone in 72 hours maximum with no chance of restocking for 4 days period. He gets this delivery on Tuesday and if he prices it at 699 its gone by Friday and he has
> no reason to employ his people over the weekend (at least several of the part timers). If he prices it at $799 it will likely still sell but most likely sell during the weekend
> and he can at least tell people there is ammo in stock - the price is high. He actually priced some at $899 three weeks ago and told several people he needed to keep
> ...


My favorite LGS deals with this by not selling all 5 1000 rd lots as 1000 rd lots. Rather they break them up and sell 20 rds with a reasonable limit on how many an individual can buy. Many more people can buy 60 to 100 rounds than can 1000 rds, and the customer traffic is maintained. They still make money with a price that reflects the current norm, but is still fair considering the current norm.


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## 1895gunner (Sep 23, 2012)

Ripon said:


> So do you equate "sticking it to you" to them just wanting to find a price point where they can keep something in stock and keep their employees employed?


Here is where I stand on this. We are not in a crisis: period. The store isn't charged more from their supplier today so why am I charged more? Why would I frequent a store that is willing to treat me like that? BTW, I'm not in a crisis either; I have plenty of supplies because I do prep. It is not my job to keep his employees employed. If they keep the prices too high the item will stay on the shelf and it won't keep anybody employed.

1895gunner


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## ElPasoLoneWolf (May 5, 2013)

Rigged for Quiet said:


> My favorite LGS deals with this by not selling all 5 1000 rd lots as 1000 rd lots. Rather they break them up and sell 20 rds with a reasonable limit on how many an individual can buy. Many more people can buy 60 to 100 rounds than can 1000 rds, and the customer traffic is maintained. They still make money with a price that reflects the current norm, but is still fair considering the current norm.


Absolutely agreed, if they can pay the rent and staff @ $500 for a box of .223 brass 6 months ago how does it change today? how is it necessary to have overpriced ammo sitting on the shelf for the rich folk? If you could pay the rent and staff 6 months ago at normal prices you can do the same today and give them a few days off! I refuse to accept price gouging. I got my a$$ up bright and early 3 days a wek due to purchase limits to get what I needed and now I have everything I need, so much I ran up the credit card near max and had to back off, kinda miss standing in line at 5am chating with fellow patriots but o well, got bills to pay too.


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## Fallon (Apr 23, 2013)

Most econimists actually agree that gouging is a good thing...

http://mises.org/daily/1593/Price-Gouging-Saves-Lives-in-a-Hurricane

The simple law of supply & demand. The more demand (people willing to pay), the harder (paying overtime, rush orders on raw materials, etc)people will work to meet that demand.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Fallon said:


> Most econimists actually agree that gouging is a good thing...
> 
> The simple law of supply & demand. The more demand (people willing to pay), the harder (paying overtime, rush orders on raw materials, etc)people will work to meet that demand.


But if only the stores or flippers are charging excessive prices on ammo that still comes from the manufactures at the old price, how does that cause the manufactures to work overtime on production lines that already, supposedly, running at full production. Its not like I can start an ammo company over night nor can a manufacturer buy new equipment, more space for production lines, hire trained people, etc. overnight either. Maybe manufactures can do something in a year or 2 but for right now, I don't see any good coming out of gouging. In fact, I saw just the opposite back during the oil embargo that caused the huge lines of cars at the gas stations. The gas stations that gouged, made money at the time. But as soon as gas was plentiful again, they were forced out of business because people remembered who screwed them over, and went to other gas stations to buy gas. I will do the same, as with CTD.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Actually his cost per 1000 rounds is up over $120 per 1000. He was paying under $400 and now just over $500. He usually breaks at least one case down and sells by the box but now does 2 that way and sometimes 3. At these prices the numbers buying 1k round cases are declining.

I'm sorry to say I don't think you have a good view of capitalism and retail sales. You say we are not in crisis, and I would agree since he gets 5000 rounds a week things are good. They have skipped him 4x since January 1 this year however so its not automatic that he gets a shipment each week. To do business the way you view he should he'd be open one day - the day goods arrive - he'd sell them out at a more than reasonable share and enjoy his profit. He'd send everyone home the other 6 days and expect them to feed their families and live off an 8 to 10 hour day. I applaud him taking the steps to find the top of the market, build up supplies for the best time, and keep his staff employed.



1895gunner said:


> Here is where I stand on this. We are not in a crisis: period. The store isn't charged more from their supplier today so why am I charged more? Why would I frequent a store that is willing to treat me like that? BTW, I'm not in a crisis either; I have plenty of supplies because I do prep. It is not my job to keep his employees employed. If they keep the prices too high the item will stay on the shelf and it won't keep anybody employed.
> 
> 1895gunner


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

I won't pay inflated prices. I will remember those who gouged. If they go out of business as a result of consumers dealing with outlets who dealt fairly with them so be it.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

1895gunner said:


> Here is where I stand on this. We are not in a crisis: period. The store isn't charged more from their supplier today so why am I charged more? Why would I frequent a store that is willing to treat me like that? BTW, I'm not in a crisis either; I have plenty of supplies because I do prep. It is not my job to keep his employees employed. If they keep the prices too high the item will stay on the shelf and it won't keep anybody employed.
> 
> 1895gunner


I don't believe your statements are true

1. We are in a crisis, ammunition is critically short, powder is off the shelves, the guvment is sucking up a lot of the production, plus now states are talking about 5 and 10 cents per round taxes. Not Normal circumstances under any measure.

2. Prices ARE higher, bullet, primer, powder manufacturers have jacked up prices, why shouldn't the assembled rounds increase?

3. Smart retailers do not price their goods on the last price paid but the replacement price.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I went to my local shop today. They have dozens of AR 15's, New and used AK 47's and every ammo from .22lr to all the other popular calibers. The WASR ak 47s were listed at $499.00 new. .223 was 14.00 for 20 rounds and they had 4000 rounds or so on the shelves, 9mm was 34.00 for 50 rds. of ball, 7.62x39 was high at 9.99 per 20 and the cheapest AR 15 was a new Bushmaster carbine for $750.00. There were literally hundreds of magazines and some very expensive window P Mags at 21.99 each. I think that people are getting into the summer frame of boating, fishing camping etc.. and focusing less on stockpiling. At my shop anyway, we are back to normal with the exception of high prices on some ammo and magazines. Availability is not an issue at the moment.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

paraquack said:


> But if the store is charging double, triple of quadruple the normal price, doesn't that make them just as bad as the flippers?


Not really...the flippers are buying their ammo from the few vendors who are trying to hold the line on prices and then jacking up the price. If everybody jacks up the price it may just cut the flippers out of the picture.

Eventually competition will come back into the picture, take over and prices should come back down. Until then complaining doesn't help (not you), complaining simply signals to the flippers that their market base is still there and they should continue flipping...

Are painful lessons being learned with this situation?...sure. If somebody comes up with a better way to pry the flippers off retail, and convince the peter panics that the sky is not falling I'd love to hear it. Because we are stuck with this situatuion for the forseable future...Bottom line I don't have to buy their ammo and neither do you if you think about it.


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

I am not buying ammo at all right now. The prices are way too high. I did buy an AR-10, but at pre-panic prices; and I paid $5 more per brick for some .22LR, but it was there, and so was I....

I am proud to be a prepper, and I had purchased ammo when prices were "normal" because I track events as part of my daily situational awareness routine. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, I heard there would be a shortage of .223 ammo, so I stocked up. When the elections looked like the Republicans would lose the White House and a President who said he favored gun control was running and gaining in popularity, I bought more black rifles and more ammo. If you were tracking events, you could see this coming from a thousand miles away. I have sold some guns, and some ammo, to people I trust, who needed help, and who are also neighbors and are like-minded people, and who are now great friends and future allies.... My kind of politicking....

The ammo shortage is being created the same way all shortages occur - by speculators buying up available supplies to resell to panicky buyers dumb enough to pay inflated prices for goods.

The shortage will end when the newbies, grasshoppers, sheeple, and slumberers have either found what they think they need, or they run out of money or credit, whichever comes first....

And then the ants and preppers will quietly go about their tasks, unnoticed by the stultified, and filling up their larders for the next mass-media-induced panic buying frenzy, or emergencies.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I don't care much for the world gone wild atmosphere of panic buying. It's annoying to say the least. I suspect quite a few people have gotten their fill of it as well. Will this blow over and then happen again? my best guess is...that it will. 

My hope is that future shortages induced by panic buying spikes will be less severe than this current one. For that to happen...It will require more people to wise up and be prepared...there is hope...

My philosophy on prepping is...If done correctly it's kind of like watching grass grow...Boring as all get out to do, yet paying huge dividends when everyone else is running in panic circles screaming and shouting...lol


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