# Threat to the grid.



## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

I normally don't watch Judge Jeanine on Fox but while channel surfing last night she had a guest talking about threats to our grid system and just how vulnerable the grid in the U.S. is. The were talking about how in California a couple of guys with rifles shot up some transformers. What one of the points that the guest was making was that during the Senate hearing into it the politicians were more upset about the leak that let everyone know about it then they were about the actual attack itself. 

The guest emphasized just how fragile our system is to EMP, sabotage, and hacker attacks. He stated that it the doctrine of Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran to use a combination of the 3 or all 3 together. He also stated that a study has concluded that if the U.S. grid was knocked out within 1 year 90% of the U.S. population would be dead from starvation, disease, or "civil unrest". An attack on the U.S. grid system would give 3rd rate countries like North Korea and Iran the capability to actually take out the United States. 

We are one of the most vulnerable countries in the World because of our heavy dependence on electricity and because we are so far behind other countries in hardening the grid system. Russia and China's grid systems have been hardened since the height of the Cold War. The United Kingdom has been working on theirs and is much further ahead in doing so then the U.S. 

Just another big reason to be prepared.


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## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Leaking info about the attack on the grid should be the least of their worries, how about not telling the rest of the world how vulnerable the grid is in the first place!


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I saw the same broadcast. I was astounded to see the reaction of the Senators. I do not understand what has happened to our country's "leaders"! I seriously wonder if we've been infiltrated by the enemy. Well actually I guess we have been infiltrated by the most tempting of enemies, GREED! These people in power worry about having money and power for a few fleeting moments and don't stop to think about what they are doing to THEIR country and the future of their children. I can easily foresee the 90% death rate if the grid was taken out. One of the biggest things the sheeple seem to forget about is where the water comes from and what it takes to get it and make it potable. One of the biggest reasons I'm a nervous Nelly living in AZ.


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

you don't have to go high tech or terror for a threat to the grid. Around here if the wind gusts a little more than a breeze the grid goes down.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

The Judge has been promoting preparedness for awhile now. She does concentrate on the Grid but she has had guests on to talk about necessary supplies and strategies to at least weather short term disasters. I never really followed her until one night a couple of months ago when she had folks on dicussing the basic contents of what amounts to a bug out bag.


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

What scares me is most military bases are hooked into the same power grid we are. I would think they would have their own secure power source.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

I have seen some bases that need their computer systems to operate that have an unusual back up power system. The system has an electric motor (getting power from the grid) turning a hydraulic pump, which turns a drive shaft with pulleys and a big honking fly wheel the turns a variable hydraulic motor, turning a generator. Under this stuff is a diesel engine with a electro-magnetic clutch on another shaft with pulleys. The two shafts are tied together with belts so if the grid goes down, the flywheel keeps the generator turning (electronics vary the hydraulic motor to keep RPM stable). Once the diesel is up and at proper RPM, the clutch engages and the diesel engine turns the main shaft thru the belts and turns the hydraulic pump and keeps everything running nicely. One benefit, very clean electricity, no interference trash from the grid. But you need a lot of fuel if it were a long duration situation. When I was on Kauai, I spotted the generator plant for the island. All diesel, all BIG diesels needing fuel brought in by ship every 2-3 days. Wonder what happens if weather keeps the ships away. But then again, I did see a lot of solar panels out there.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Let's note some things. They were good enough they first knocked out phone systems for the alarm, but then not good enough to cause even a power outage with over a 100 7.62x39s fired. They did this on the night of the boston marathon bombing last year, coincidence? They couldn't even cause a power outage. Which leads me to believe it's a little more robust, the grid I mean, then we think.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

I must say guys, after Y2K I do not believe anything about the grid. If the lights go out I'll light a candle.


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## Mottmcfly (Jan 21, 2014)

PalmettoTree said:


> I must say guys, after Y2K I do not believe anything about the grid. If the lights go out I'll light a candle.


Agreed and I have a simple solar back up unless we have to leave. I can also take it with me if the circumstances call for it.


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## bad (Feb 22, 2014)

That attack, or a similar one last year in California last was perpetrated by an al-Qaeda cell.

I think this is a link: Attack on California Electricity Supply May Have Been Terrorist Strike


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

PalmettoTree said:


> I must say guys, after Y2K I do not believe anything about the grid. If the lights go out I'll light a candle.


So let's not worry about it? Have you thought about the consequences if the power goes down and stays down for a while? No refrigeration, which doesn't sound like a big problem until you realize that there wont' be any fresh meat or produce in grocery stores, there won't be much of anything in stores if there are stores. How are they going to order more products? No phones, no computers. No gas. No transportation system. No money because the banks don't use ledgers like they did along time ago, it's all computers and electronic transfers.

You might want to be careful about lighting a candle. Some starving people may see the light and decide that you must have more then them and come pay you a visit.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

One of the things that has stuck with me from "One Second After" is the matter of medications. Diabetics, heart patients, dialysis patients, and not to mention the staggering number of folks on meds for mental disorders/illness. I think many folks on meds for mental issues will be better off without them, but there is a segment of society that will have serious issues when the prescription runs out.


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

I break it down like this. Power goes out, people to die out are as follows:

< 1 month - those who are too lazy to do anything, who believe that things should be done for them by the government. Lack of water will kill most of them before they realise they're in danger.
1 - 3 months - People on pain meds. Many are addicted to the meds, and as a result, are likely to go through bad withdrawal symptoms, and end up either a danger to themselves or others, and if the latter, people will not hesitate to kill them off to protect themselves.
3 - 6 months - all mental institution patients die out from their related problems (either starvation, suicide, being killed by other patients/people to protect themselves). 
6 - 9 months - diabetics would be in severe danger here, most can diet control their problem, but insulin dependent ones would be done by now (if not in diabetic coma already), and type 2 by this point would likely have run out of stores and struggling too keep a diet which would stop diabetes killing them.
9 - 18 months - All heart patients, diabetics and dialysis patients to die out without proper medication, (heart patients can live upto 1 year without meds, maybe longer depending on how they cope). At this point, only the strong survive.
18 months > - if you are here, you will likely survive long term.


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

Notsoyoung said:


> So let's not worry about it? Have you thought about the consequences if the power goes down and stays down for a while? No refrigeration, which doesn't sound like a big problem until you realize that there wont' be any fresh meat or produce in grocery stores, there won't be much of anything in stores if there are stores. How are they going to order more products? No phones, no computers. No gas. No transportation system. No money because the banks don't use ledgers like they did along time ago, it's all computers and electronic transfers.
> 
> You might want to be careful about lighting a candle. Some starving people may see the light and decide that you must have more then them and come pay you a visit.


I believe the likely hood to be vastly remote. Second I do not believe such an event would be nation wide for long. I will admit it might be long enough for wide spread panic therefore the best prep is to keep your guns clean.

Such an event would take down the grid but not generation capacity. Therefore in ever widening circled starting at points of generation power would be restored. Then there will be areas that are blacked out on a rotating basis. The only reason we depend on such a grid system is because the entire nation does not have peak demand at the same time therefore areas can share generation capacity.

Today the country depends on a system similar to what small areas had in the 50's and 60's. My father worked oft an electric utility for 40 years in a small town. He was the sole repair man. That was back when poles were claimed with a belt and spurs. I rode with him many stormy night as he reset breakers. Idling from one to another he explained why we passed one to reset another then returning to the one we passed.

As for banking the business cycle would slow. Therefore cash normally spent on unnecessary things would be available for necessary transactions like food and hardware supplies. If you think about it you are more likely to need a stash go US dollars and change than the gold and silver we all collect.

I can still make change out of a cigar box (if you can find one). I still can add and even calculate sales tax. So my skills will be in high demand. Especially since I can shoot too. Long lines and frustration will be the biggest threat. Since gas will be in short supply even that might not last long. People will forget they cannot fill up and waste the gas they have without thinking.

There are a ton of things for us to worry about this is not one. In fact it might be a good dress rehearsal for a real SHTF.


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## nephilim (Jan 20, 2014)

Lack of refrigeration is another reason I do my own charcuterie. I have struck up a deal with my local butcher, whilst they make their own sausages, they don't do anything like salami or jerkies/biltong in house. They do their own brined food and cured bacon, but have yet to do anything more "exotic". In a few weeks they'll have their own salamis finished  I teach them, and in return, I get free meat once a month for a year - we got a written contract - (this month was 2lb of pork belly, 1lb of lean beef mince, 2lb of braising beef, 2lb of oxtail). In the short term I benefit more, but in the long term, as they have more on offer to sell, they will get more customers, more money in the till and more products on offer. Its a win/win.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

At least in our area,if not others,our area's power providers have been what I believe hardening our local grids by installing huge breakers that will segregate our systems.they have not been advertising it but I have seen this apparatus being installed at critical (large) substations throughout the area. most of our power does come from Wisconsin(WE energies) but within a few miles of our location there are many hydros,diesel peaking sets and at least two coal fired plants.recently after our utility installed this apparatus our area (some 35,-40,000 services)were able to run on 5 hydro plants and our one local coal plant for 24 hours with no outside power source. I do believe that the situation in California has spurred the producers into at least being alarmed enough to start doing similar work.we,unless you work for the utilities,will probably never be informed about these modifications.so, in my summation I believe that there is a plan to prevent these widespread situations.unless a very large attack is unleashed,( and we really do not know of an aggressive countries real abilities),I don't think there could be such a total blackout in the entire USA.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Leon said:


> you don't have to go high tech or terror for a threat to the grid. Around here if the wind gusts a little more than a breeze the grid goes down.


We're at 50 MPH + winds,the power people are cutting trees and updating lines. What could possibly go 'rong


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