# What makes a good fighting knife?



## Kauboy

Sparked from our recent discussions concerning being always ready for the "call to arms", I have started again considering what to include as part of my "minuteman" loadout.

For those unfamiliar with the concept, "minutemen" were those ready and willing to respond to militia orders within a "minute's notice", and have all their gear at the ready at all times for such a call. These were prominent during the times surrounding the American Revolution, and the concept has become a bit more widespread in recent years due to the last U.S. administration.

With the reminder from our discussions that we must always be vigilant and ready, I'm reassembling mine again. I have no current reason to believe its need is imminent, but if the time comes that it is, I don't want to be caught flat-footed. We are "preppers", after all.

I have taken the time to choose a rifle, a sidearm, magazines, and a plate carrier, and all of these things are assembled together and ready. They do NOT, by any means, complete my kit. My kit has been separated over the past two years for various reasons, and I'm going to be rectifying that over the next few days to weeks. (this could be a new discussion unto itself)

This post is intended to request assistance from the community, and get opinions on a very specific type of knife to include with this loadout.
I have fine-cutting and utility knives aplenty. What I lack is a true fighting knife. I could make due with a few I have, but I'm not convinced any of them would be ideal.

I'm reaching out to all of you to pick your collective brains and learn from your experiences.
I know of the legendary Ka-Bar, and I've heard good things about the SOG Seal Pup. There are things I like and dislike about both.
I'm wanting to learn whether my opinions align with the true nature of a fighting knife, or if I'm just an unschooled pleb relying on bad intuition. (likely)
I consider myself a "knife guy", in that I've been collecting them and learning about them since I was 10. I even spent time focusing my learning on the many aspects of the sword. I've just never taken the time to learn about fighting knives.

So, to the community...
What makes a good fighting knife?


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## Maine-Marine

Not to be a smartass but in bootcamp.. we were told "if it comes down to you and the other guy getting ready to fight with knives..and he is willing to fight, chances are he is better then you!" "reposition"

The best fighting knife is a handgun


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## Chipper

World wide is a machete.


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## The Tourist

First off, I'd try to get out of the fray because even the winner is probably going to get cut.

But if I had to pick a knife, I'd pick a polished TOPS C.U.T. 4.0 and keep my pinkie inside the ring.

It's a blade, it's brass knuckles, and it makes lovely Julienne Fries...


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## bigwheel

Maine-Marine said:


> Not to be a smartass but in bootcamp.. we were told "if it comes down to you and the other guy getting ready to fight with knives..and he is willing to fight, chances are he is better then you!" "reposition"
> 
> The best fighting knife is a handgun


Dittos. Ideal fighting knife is the one some dummy brings to a gun fight. lol.


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## Boss Dog

I would say any blade three inches and up of a decent quality that the wielder knows how to use. That ain't me.


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## The Tourist

I don't refer to my polished knife as a "fighting knife." But I did read a lot of Massad Ayoob back in the day. He used the term "fending." That is, the attacker is too close, you use a some form of strike to back him off, then 'speed rock' your pistol directly from the holster and fire. At that range, the shot is usually in the torso.

And BTW, I think knife fighting is plain silly. As a knife salesman I had to read TK magazine to keep up with trends. And I ruffled a lot of feathers by saying there are no knife fights. Oh, there are knife attacks, but not two duelists who have some smarmy sense of honor and demand their enemy to "step into the light."

Did you guys know there is a Bowie knife school? And these guys are rabid.


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## jim-henscheli

I suppose it comes down to your own definition of “fighting knife”, my idea of a fighting my knife is more along the lines of a ka-bar, or a bayonet whereas knives like the Sykes-fairbairn and the m2, are really more like daggers I.e they are not intended primarily as back up weapons, rather they are proactive solutions to a particular problem: killing quietly.
So I’m as much as they are knives, they can do most “knife things” but their utilitarian value is sharply curtailed as they are made better suited to specific tasks such as killing.
As I’ve mentioned before, my sog seal pup has been an excellent knife low these many years, capable of performing a variety of tasks, from the mundane to the “tactical “.


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## Kauboy

The sentiments posed here are true, and not lost on the author.
A knife is NOT the preferred weapon of any two-sided encounter.
If one ever reaches a point where the knife becomes the only option, one has come grossly unprepared or been caught totally unawares.

That said, covering all ranges of engagement is not something to be ignored. A fighter should not be skill or gear limited to only striking at a distance. Whether by necessity of a silent takedown, creating space to break away and get to cover, or plunging into your enemy's chest while taking your own dying breath, the blade is not to be scoffed at and rejected outright.

I thank those who've offered their opinions. Keep 'em coming!


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## Steve40th

Cant imagine a knife fight, but I hope it goes this way.


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## Redneck

The way I see it, I'm gonna avoid a knife fight, or any other close in combat, like the plague. Therefore, I won't plan for it by having a "fighting" knife. I do always carry my Gerber Covert auto in my pocket, so I guess that is the one I'd fight with, when there is no other option.


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## Kauboy

******* said:


> The way I see it, I'm gonna avoid a knife fight, or any other close in combat, like the plague. Therefore, I won't plan for it by having a "fighting" knife. I do always carry my Gerber Covert auto in my pocket, so I guess that is the one I'd fight with, when there is no other option.


You've posted that knife before. Applegate designed that knife to be a fighting folder, based on his Applegate-Fairbairn fighting knife. You've been carrying a fighting knife all this time. ;-)


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## StratMaster

No...








Yes!


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## Redneck

Kauboy said:


> You've posted that knife before. Applegate designed that knife to be a fighting folder, based on his Applegate-Fairbairn fighting knife. You've been carrying a fighting knife all this time. ;-)


Damn, you learn something new every day. And I thought I just had a fancy box opener & hay bale cutter.  I do see where that shape of the blade might be best for penetration when jabbed.

Well it is a damn fine knife. Best of all I've carried.


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## Camel923

Sykes-fairbaun is damned good choice. We are taking about killing someone with a knife Not filleting a fish. A big Bowie would be good. Ka bars and trench knives can do the job. 

It’s best not to have to knife fight because even if you when it could not be good for you. 

Maybe combine a Bowie with a tomahawk. Make sure you do some studying on technique, books and videos. If you can find a sparing partner, so much the better.


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## 7515

I carry a Larry Fisch design aptly called Hunt and Fisch 
It’s a CRKT brand. What sold me was the horizontal sheath that enables me to carry it somewhat concealed. 
The blade is 3” overall length 6”. It fits my hand well due to a finger cut out near the front of the handle. 

It’s not what most would think of as a combat blade but it’s heavy enough and long enough to get someone off me if I’m attacked. 
Hope this helps


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## jim-henscheli

These are my edc knives, the sog is in my bag. The idea of the three is the Swiss Army knife handles food and tool things, the folder(Crkt heiho) handles most tasks, and is really used hard, and the sting 3b is the "fighting/defense" knife. It's super slim, light and stupid sharp.
I know the OP was really asking about a knife for his battle belt/line 2 stuff, but this is just one way to address the knife question. Jm2c


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## tango

The best fighting knife is any knife in the hand of a skilled knife fighter!


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## bigwheel

One of my old ex air force pals says he can whip any knife fighter in town by taking off his hand stitched cowboy belt with the big buckle and whipping them with the buckle end. He says hes done it several times. Think he must do it sorta like this.


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## Inor

If it comes down to a knife fight, I am going to say the best knife for me to have is the cheapest, crappiest, shortest blade, piece of crap thing you can find. I am not a knife fighter. If it comes down to fighting with a knife for my life and the lives of those I hold dear, I want the crappiest thing I can find so the attacker has less to use against them.

That being said, when I am at home, my EDC is a Benchmade Osborne. When I travel, I prefer a Kershaw Leek. I think the Kershaw Leek is the BEST general purpose folding knife ever made. The blade is made of good (not great) steel, but it holds an edge well. It is also thin enough that it can be sharpened to razor fineness. I have. literally, shaved with it and it works fine.

The Benchmade is much beefier and holds an edge MUCH longer, but it is not nearly as refined for cutting.

Put the tool in the toolbox for the job you expect to have to do.


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## rice paddy daddy

I carried a Ka Bar in Vietnam, and Praise Jesus I never had to use it for anything other than a utility knife.
I have two of them today, a modern one, and a WWII issue.

For me, being a total novice to "knife fighting" I want to out-range my opponent. The longer my blade, the better I would feel. A Ka Bar would be good, a Bowie style knife with a heavy 12" or longer blade would make me feel better.

An M-6 bayonet firmly affixed to the end of my Springfield M1A and I could kick butt. With either end of the weapon.

I carry a fixed blade sheath knife on my belt whenever I'm off our property. I have a variety, ranging from a Buck 119, down to blades 4" in length. I prefer Schrade Old Timer hunting knives, they balance well in my hand.

Check out Smoky Mountain Knife Works (I spend a lot of money there, I like blades). https://www.smkw.com

My next purchase will most likely be https://www.smkw.com/schrade-unc-henry-full-tang-bowie-clm-3


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## MountainGirl

rice paddy daddy said:


> ... I prefer Schrade Old Timer hunting knives, they balance well in my hand...


 That's my knife, the 15OT; it fits in my hand just right, seems to disappear when I grip it - if ya know what I mean.


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## Sasquatch

Oh, I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents...

SOG Seal Pup is in my BOB so it'll be going with me if I must leave. I also have at the ready a Kershaw boot knife that may come in handy if I were to ever find myself in a knife fight. The name of the knife "The Secret Agent" is stupid but it is a nice knife. Plenty sharp and double bladed.









Now with that said let's talk some reality. Not disparaging your thread in the least @Kauboy but facts are facts. Most people can't fight, let alone knife fight. Most bare knuckle fights will be over in under two minutes because most people can't do anything strenuous for two minutes. So if your knife attacker is trained he will most likely tire you out for two minutes and then slit your throat while you're gasping for air. So in any knife fight (or plain fight for that matter) one of your best friends is cardio cardio cardio. Done, of course, often and long before you ever find yourself in a knife fight.


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## Kauboy

Spotted this in my list of previously watched vids.
A knife isn't just a last option weapon. It's a tool.


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## Coastie dad

I finally decided to add to this. Part of me hates to but...I've had formal training and professional experience.
@Sasquatch is correct about the two minute fight. Hollywood brought about the extended fight scene. We were trained that 30 seconds was about maximum effective fight time. If attacked:
Become the aggressor.
Incapacitate immediately.
Break bone.
Crush throat.
Remove sight.
If a knife is involved, plan on getting cut.
Decide what part of you will be cut.
Follow the first rules.

Personal experience says a box cutter is not fun, and even a broken blade cuts.


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## The Tourist

If I really thought there was the slightest chance of a real "West Side Story" rumble, I'd buy a Japanese folded steel knife in the four to six inch length and have a sheath made for it.

I know a guy who can polish it, and finished with slurry every slice would be to the bone.

Heck, I wish I knew a local guy who makes folders, we could just replace the commercial blade with folded steel.

Edit: I think I'm going to buy this one, and polish it.
Re-Edit: I just bought the knife from Blue Ridge.


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## rice paddy daddy

MountainGirl said:


> That's my knife, the 15OT; it fits in my hand just right, seems to disappear when I grip it - if ya know what I mean.


The 15OT looks nice, I'll put it on my wish list.
Mine's the 165OT, the blade is thick and 5" long, a clip point shape.

I'm lusting for an Ontario M3 Trench Knife. American made to the original WWII drawings, and using carbon steel just like the original. For those who have never seen one, they have a stacked leather handle like a Ka Bar, but the blade is the traditional US bayonet size and shape like the M-4 thru M-7 bayonets.

Speaking of bayonets, I just picked up a model 1924 Yugoslavian Mauser bayonet, unissued, still packed in cosmoline since it was made in 1944. I paid $40 for it, still has the original blueing under the grease. 10" blade, sweet.


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## whoppo

My idea of a good fighting knife is an M series bayonet... firmly affixed to an AR with a full magazine.


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## paraquack

I prefer a .45 cal. knife. I like the idea of being able to stand off a considerable distance.


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## MisterMills357

Steve40th said:


> Cant imagine a knife fight, but I hope it goes this way.


Yeah, that is a knife, and then some. It gets my vote for a fighter.


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## MountainGirl

paraquack said:


> I prefer a .45 cal. knife. I like the idea of being able to stand off a considerable distance.
> 
> View attachment 71929


Just be careful if you tuck it in your waistband...


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## Kauboy

MountainGirl said:


> Just be careful if you tuck it in your waistband...


Appendix carry would be a no-go.
:vs_laugh:


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## The Tourist

paraquack said:


> I prefer a .45 cal. knife. I like the idea of being able to stand off a considerable distance.


I think we all would. But you can't always have your 'druthers.

Think of a mall, not everyone walks within 21 feet of each other to obey the Tueller Drill. And my mentors were quick to teach me that most times the littlest jerk in the saloon is usually the biggest pain in the rump.

From a tactical perspective, more and more robbers and muggers work in groups. Heck, I couldn't hit all the IPSC targets today if I had to, relaxed and well-fed. How would Joe-citizen react facing a herd? Would the pistol lock open as the last one climbs on top of him?

Last, if Massad Ayoob taught fending in the early 1980s--and let's be honest, it's worse now--maybe a tactical pen or a flipper jackknife should be part of our "gun plan."


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## sideKahr

It doesn't matter what kind of knife you have if your opponent can rip it from your grasp with his teeth!


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## rice paddy daddy

I always carry my gun in my left front pocket, and a fixed blade on my right side, next to the inubtrusive nylon pouch that holds the spare magazine.
You could very well shoot someone with a handgun, and they don't even realize they've been shot.
And if the bad guy is determined, even multiple rounds may not stop him.


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## Robie

Personally, I think no matter the weapon....it comes down to the persons ability to handle the weapon...whether it's fists, knives, guns or broomsticks.

I don't think my machete is much good against the guy with martial arts or boxing experience...armed with a butter knife.


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## dwight55

Kauboy said:


> ............ What makes a good fighting knife?


I've always figured out that this is a whole lot more the fighter than it is the knife.

Had a Navy buddy, . . . would NEVER have wanted to get into a knife fight with him (Oakland, Ca. resident), . . .

His "carry" knife was about 2 1/2 inches long, . . . closed, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Kauboy

I hope the point of this thread has not been missed.

I appreciate the fact that actually fighting with a knife is far more than just the weapon itself.
I'm looking for important traits to consider when looking for fighting knife.

From a bit of research, tip strength is a key characteristic to consider, as is a pommel sufficient to prevent forward slipping of the hand.
Depending on the style of one's preferred method, a double-edged spike could be just the thing. To another, a thick-spined single edge slasher might be the better option.
Is it more effective to stab, or to cut?

We may not have this kind of experience on this site, and that's fine. I don't suspect this skill is very well known.


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## Robie

Lots of good videos on technique here:


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## Redneck

Kauboy said:


> I hope the point of this thread has not been missed.
> 
> I appreciate the fact that actually fighting with a knife is far more than just the weapon itself.
> I'm looking for important traits to consider when looking for fighting knife.
> 
> From a bit of research, tip strength is a key characteristic to consider, as is a pommel sufficient to prevent forward slipping of the hand.
> Depending on the style of one's preferred method, a double-edged spike could be just the thing. To another, a thick-spined single edge slasher might be the better option.


So which ones are you considering now?


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## Coastie dad

Well, are ye a sticker or are ye a slicer?
Is it just for dueling, or will ye be a slicing your steak and opening thy canned taters with it?

I like the Esee 5 for all around heavy work, and it was designed for the military.
And I know this will twist some tails, but the Glock field knife has lots of good qualities for about $30. It will open bottles, cans, chest cavities, baton wood, and strike ferro rods.


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## Kauboy

******* said:


> So which ones are you considering now?


Tough to narrow down.
I have three I've been considering, but wouldn't say they're my final set to pick from.

The *Gerber Strongarm* is a full-tang single edge with a rubber overmolded grip:









The *Ka-Bar BK7* is a beefy full-tang, but might be a tad too large to maneuver well:









The suggestion from this thread, the *TOPS C.U.T. 4* offers an exceptional purchase on the knife in either the sabre or reverse grips due to the finger hole:









And if I'm being completely honest about a possible 4th, I've got it in my head that a Japanese Tanto might work as well, like the _Cold Steel Recon Tanto_:








(I just watched the video for this knife on CS's site... holy crap are those things tough)

They aren't flashy, nor do they offer much in the way of mutli-functionality. 
They serve a maximum of two purposes. Stabbing and/or cutting.


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## Redneck

Kauboy said:


> They aren't flashy, nor do they offer much in the way of mutli-functionality.
> They serve a maximum of two purposes. Stabbing and/or cutting.


I notice none appear to be folders. I know we all look for different things, but to this dumb *******, the best tool is the one you will always have with you. My folder is with me 100% of the time, unless on a commercial flight. I wonder if you or others would have one of these with you that much... at church for example? And if you had it on you, would it be so hidden that quick deployment would be an issue? I just know there have been a few times in the city where I had my hand in my pocket with the knife gripped, lock off & a finger on the release button. That is not a threatening posture but that knife could be out instantly.


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## Robie

I have that Gerber. I like it. Great grip too.


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## Robie

I wear this quite a bit. 
https://www.gerbergear.com/Knives/Fixed/Ghostrike-Punch-Knife_30-001007

Plus, I've always got the EDC...Benchmade Osborne in the pocket...never leave home without it.

Both will cut tendons if they had to.


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## Coastie dad

Some food for thought, showing my bias.


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## Robie

There is a reason the KA-BAR was the knife chosen.....


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## Kauboy

******* said:


> I notice none appear to be folders. I know we all look for different things, but to this dumb *******, the best tool is the one you will always have with you. My folder is with me 100% of the time, unless on a commercial flight. I wonder if you or others would have one of these with you that much... at church for example? And if you had it on you, would it be so hidden that quick deployment would be an issue? I just know there have been a few times in the city where I had my hand in my pocket with the knife gripped, lock off & a finger on the release button. That is not a threatening posture but that knife could be out instantly.


In my first post, I covered the reason for this new knife.
I carry a folder with me every single day, without exception. They are for quick deployment in an emergency, but mostly for daily all around use.
It ranges between a Kershaw, a Bestech, and a Buck. Just depends on the day and the attire.
I believe a gentleman should always carry a folding knife.

However, this knife will serve a different purpose. In my opinion, I don't believe a folder will be up to the task. Anything with a weakness isn't acceptable. (thin tip, pivot point, etc...)
If this knife lodges into bone, it needs to hold up to a wrenching twist to extract it. (not to put too fine a point on it... pun intended)


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## rice paddy daddy

Kauboy said:


> I hope the point of this thread has not been missed.
> 
> I appreciate the fact that actually fighting with a knife is far more than just the weapon itself.
> I'm looking for important traits to consider when looking for fighting knife.
> 
> From a bit of research, tip strength is a key characteristic to consider, as is a pommel sufficient to prevent forward slipping of the hand.
> Depending on the style of one's preferred method, a double-edged spike could be just the thing. To another, a thick-spined single edge slasher might be the better option.
> Is it more effective to stab, or to cut?
> 
> We may not have this kind of experience on this site, and that's fine. I don't suspect this skill is very well known.


I have been told that a good way to employ a combat knife (as opposed to a flimsy pocket flipper/folder) is to ram it to the hilt in your opponents belly, and then "crank it around".
Obviously, a stout, strong fixed blade at least 7" (Ka Bar, and bayonet length), preferably with grip that will still work when slick with blood and intestines.

A "knife fight" with opponents dancing about, waving blades, like they are fencing is not what I think about in terms of employing a blade in an attempt to save my life.
I'm going to do as suggested - get inside and violently and vigorously attempt to disembowel my opponent. 
We were told in Basic Training if we employ the bayonet by hand, to hold the blade horizontal (parallel to the ground) so it can slip between the ribs if you are going for the chest.


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## Coastie dad

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have been told that a good way to employ a combat knife (as opposed to a flimsy pocket flipper/folder) is to ram it to the hilt in your opponents belly, and then "crank it around".
> Obviously, a stout, strong fixed blade at least 7" (Ka Bar, and bayonet length), preferably with grip that will still work when slick with blood and intestines.
> 
> A "knife fight" with opponents dancing about, waving blades, like they are fencing is not what I think about in terms of employing a blade in an attempt to save my life.
> I'm going to do as suggested - get inside and violently and vigorously attempt to disembowel my opponent.
> We were told in Basic Training if we employ the bayonet by hand, to hold the blade horizontal (parallel to the ground) so it can slip between the ribs if you are going for the chest.


Bingo. And let's not forget: sternum to crotch, and armpits are special too.


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## Kauboy

rice paddy daddy said:


> I have been told that a good way to employ a combat knife (as opposed to a flimsy pocket flipper/folder) is to ram it to the hilt in your opponents belly, and then "crank it around".
> Obviously, a stout, strong fixed blade at least 7" (Ka Bar, and bayonet length), preferably with grip that will still work when slick with blood and intestines.
> 
> A "knife fight" with opponents dancing about, waving blades, like they are fencing is not what I think about in terms of employing a blade in an attempt to save my life.
> I'm going to do as suggested - get inside and violently and vigorously attempt to disembowel my opponent.
> We were told in Basic Training if we employ the bayonet by hand, to hold the blade horizontal (parallel to the ground) so it can slip between the ribs if you are going for the chest.


Now *that* is the real-world info I'm looking for.
Like you, I don't plan to trade strikes with an opponent. One or two meaningful plunges should be the goal to give his soul a way out, and length is important for this.
2 of the blades I showed above meet that same 7" length you mentioned for a bayonet. In all the training I've seen and read about, the bayonet was always intended as a furious deep puncture weapon. That's a great lesson to keep in mind when choosing this knife.

Thank you for this info!


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## rice paddy daddy

The stacked leather washer grip of the Ka Bar USMC Fighting Knife will still give good purchase when slippery, either wet with rain, or wet with bodily fluids.

Take a look at these:
https://www.smkw.com/ontario-mark-iii-trench-knife This is a little large for city wear, and may even be illegal for wear in some locales, but it would not be a problem where we live.

A quality knife that is stout enough, yet a little smaller so it wouldn't panic liberals, would be the pilot's survival knife
https://www.smkw.com/ontario-survival-u-s-military-issue

These are the real deals, as we used to say.

I highly recommend Smoky Mountain Knife Works, they process orders correctly and quickly. I have never been let down by them.


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## The Tourist

All of the knives listed are good quality examples, and made by reputable companies. The glitch for me is that they will never be used in combat unless you are an actively deployed soldier. As a citizen, it will never be used for fighting.

My old signature used to be, "Gravy, but no blood." It was how knives coming back from Sturgis looked. They were dull--from camping. Like most knives, 75% of their use was food preparation (most guys took tents, they did not sleep in the woods) and the other 25% was doing mundane things like opening UPS boxes.

In all the years of polishing, I never had to fix a knife used in combat. More to the issue, I never had a cop bring me a polished knife in a plastic evidence bag and ask me who the owner was. Now, did I polish knives for soldiers? Yes I did, but the big users were EMTs, cops, and other first responders.

Did I get into trouble with this slant? Oh, you bet I did! The guys from TK all claimed that a fighting knife was a must. Then you started a thread in a forum and asked, "Who's been in a knife fight?" and all you heard was crickets.

If survival is your goal, I'd look into ESEE knives, because those knives have been used and abused by many survival classes. I use a similar knife, a Bradford Guardian 4 because I got a deal on the alloy, that being 3V.

I have nothing against bigger knives, I polished an ESEE Number 5 for a client, and I believe the knife is indestructible. But the biggest chore it does is batoning wood.


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## Deebo

Simple answer, PRACTICE.
I will now go back an read the posts, but It brought to mind the saying my little girls karate instructor says "whats the difference in a good kick and a great kick?" "one thousand attempts".


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## Deebo

@Kuaboy, I have my dads USN knife. I would not wanna carry it everyday.
I have a SOG, but don't know the model.


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## The Tourist

I would also like to hear a bit about personal responsibility, like we do with firearms. And like bullets, you're responsible for your conduct, your ability to de-escalate the exchange and every slice you make. I think once in a while people just clip a knife to their pants, and sigh, "Well, it's only a knife..."

Right in front of me is a 33 dollar knife that can slice a femoral artery and render death faster than any ambulance can make it to the scene.

Just as we have "father son talks" with our kin when we hand over car keys, our present world and its dangers seem to on the rise while common sense is dropping.

In Madison, we have what is known as "restorative justice." If the powers that be decide you're an unfortunate soul, they let you apologize and walk scott-free. If you think I'm kidding, two years ago we had an ethnic girl of 18 fight it out with two cops. The young woman had a switchblade, which is legal in Wisconsin only if you are 21. Someone filmed her being taken to the ground. The cops were punished, the girl got off with an apology.

Did you know that I almost laughed when I first saw "Kill Bill" and the oath he took to stop producing katanas. I don't laugh anymore, for I have knives I will never sell. While I might never be charged or sued over what I produce, could you look a cop straight in the eye when he tells you, _"A knife you polished just killed a 21 year old in a bar fight..."_

We've even laughed about bringing a knife to a gunfight. Go to YouTube and dial up "The Tueller Drill." Statistics demonstrate that inside of 21 feet a knife is as lethal as a firearm.


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## Kauboy

@The Tourist, quite right that responsibility should be taught. I still remember the long conversations I had with my grandfather before he gave me my first knife. I'll never forget them. I'll pass them on to my kids and grandkids.
As much as we like to refer to our equipment as "tools", we must also acknowledge that they are weapons. All weapons deserve a healthy fear and respect, lest we grow careless.

One thing to tweak about your mention of the Tueller drill, Mr. Tueller designed that drill to show officers that the knife was not simply "as lethal" within that distance, but rather a knife wielder owns that distance. Inside of 21 feet, your gun *IS USELESS* against an experienced knife attacker. You won't be evenly matched. They are ready, you are not. You must always be ready to sacrifice a body part to the attack(block/deflect) while drawing, or have a way to create distance.


----------



## The Tourist

Kauboy said:


> You must always be ready to sacrifice a body part to the attack(block/deflect) while drawing, or have a way to create distance.


I'm 95% with you. I'm not sure most unschooled fighters know just what they should "sacrifice."

My SIL is a nurse. We discussed places to "slice." For example, most folks committing suicide cut across their wrists. It's faster and cleaner to cut down the inside of your forearm to your wrist--north/south, not east/west.

So let's suppose 'Fang' the pudgy, foulmouthed tattooed drunk in the saloon decides to cause me bodily injury. He sees the knife and holds out his arm, like to stiff arm a football safety. From my perspective, he's already dead and doesn't know it.

I'm seeing lots of medical news in survival magazines. This should be discussed in a separate forum thread. It's an important matter.


----------



## Jammer Six

Reading knife forums, it seems that the Kabar and bayonets would actually make terrible fighting knives.

I wouldn't want to be down to a knife. If you were, there are more effective methods, to my mind.


----------



## jim-henscheli

Jammer Six said:


> Reading knife forums, it seems that the Kabar and bayonets would actually make terrible fighting knives.
> 
> I wouldn't want to be down to a knife. If you were, there are more effective methods, to my mind.


Hear ye!!! Hear ye!!! The expert has spoken!!! Oh no, never mind......, he just queefed..


----------



## The Tourist

Obviously there are bad knives, cheap Chinese junk that barely made it to America without rusting.

However, there are numerous knives, designed for the human hand, made from modern "uber" alloys and sharpened at the factory by master craftsmen.

Look at what we do with our CCW pistols. We buy the best ones we can, we take them apart, scrub them like NASA rocket parts, lubricate thm with special oils, and break them in with 500 to 1,000 rounds. Then we replace the recoil springs, just in case. Some magazines cost nine bucks, but we buy the best ones we can, from 35 to 75 dollars each. I have eight of them.

So why not knives? Perhaps we treat them like ice picks, or we buy what's on sale. But I ask you to consider this, would you want to square off against one of my clients?


----------



## Kauboy

jim-henscheli said:


> Hear ye!!! Hear ye!!! The expert has spoken!!! Oh no, never mind......, he just queefed..


I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, if he actually knows anything about what he posts.
For some reason though, he refuses to make clear and informative posts.
He chooses to pretend to be mysterious, laconic, and aloof. It's like pulling teeth to get him to say anything precise.
I assume (yeah, I know) that he does this because he doesn't actually know anything that would be pertinent to the discussion, but wants to project the illusion.

You can see that in his post here.
He starts out with an authoritative statement, leading one to believe that he has researched the issue, and has determined, via the experience of others, that certain options are less than optimal.
However, he then provides nothing of substance to counter the point. As if he only chose to post the portion that is contrarian. If someone has identified flaws in one option, wouldn't the logical next step be to specify those flaws, explain them, and provide alternatives that lack these flaws? That *is* the point of the thread, after all.

But no...


----------



## Robie

My final answer.....

An ice pick.....


----------



## bigwheel

I love Machetes. Reminds me of the good old Boy Scouts. Put down much brush and a few snakes heads with mine. They stack em deep and sell em cheap at the feed store.


----------



## The Tourist

bigwheel said:


> I love Machetes. Reminds me of the good old Boy Scouts.


Every tool has a specific job, and while a machete might be excellent for clearing brush, they're a bit of over-kill for slicing sandwiches at McDonalds.

The reason I showed one of my clients knives was to elude to an analogy. We might not be able to afford a fully tricked out Wilson 1911, but we buy the best pistol we can afford, test it, and take good care of it.

That client bought a Cold Steel Spartan, a mid-priced knife with a blade blank of an average alloy. It was polished so he had the best tool he could afford. When I first hung my shingle I knew some guys with a Weatherby rifle and a nine dollar knife.

Chances are that if we have to bug out we'll be doing more food preparation than shooting. We should be seeking out good cutting tools.


----------



## Prepared One

These are just two of many but these would be my go to if it came to a fight. The Ontario SP4-95 Spec plus navy ( On the left ) would be my first choice. Ribbed, light, and will stay in my hand. Holds a good edge. It is part of my load out. The BK7 KAY-BAR is a beast. That is part of my BOB. Can be used for general survival needs and a fighting knife as well. The handle needs work as it is slippery and there is no guard to keep your hand from slipping up on the blade when slick or bloody. I

Comes down to it if I am down to fighting with knives I am in a world of hurt. I ain't no Rambo but I can say anyone who is in a knife fight better be prepared to be hurt, win or loose. I consider the knife a stand off, last ditch, measure, used only to gain distance so I can either move to a better position (Like get the freakin hell out of there) or get to a pistol or rifle. Like I said, if I am down to knives, I have lost the war.

Still, when you need one, you really need one.


----------



## The Tourist

Prepared One said:


> Still, when you need one, you really need one.


Yes, you do. And I carry both a knife and a tactical pen to use as a fending weapon.

Sure, we all try to keep our heads on a swivel, in fact, I have my own chair at the cafe' to let me see all three exits.

But what does "danger" look like? The most dangerous person I know is a 5 foot-nothing redhead that will end your life. She has a temper I have rarely seen. Your first take might be a smirk after looking at several bikers and a little girl. But then, I've known her for +five years.

I see nothing wrong with your choices to put distance between yourself and the attacker, both staving off injuries and buying time to draw and fire.


----------



## Prepared One

The Tourist said:


> Yes, you do. And I carry both a knife and a tactical pen to use as a fending weapon.
> 
> Sure, we all try to keep our heads on a swivel, in fact, I have my own chair at the cafe' to let me see all three exits.
> 
> But what does "danger" look like? The most dangerous person I know is a 5 foot-nothing redhead that will end your life. She has a temper I have rarely seen. Your first take might be a smirk after looking at several bikers and a little girl. But then, I've known her for +five years.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with your choices to put distance between yourself and the attacker, both staving off injuries and buying time to draw and fire.


I have a 5 foot nothing brunette that threatens to end my life on a fairly regular basis. Usually after I have pushed her buttons. I married her but I don't think that will save me :devil:


----------



## Real Old Man

Kauboy said:


> Sparked from our recent discussions concerning being always ready for the "call to arms", I have started again considering what to include as part of my "minuteman" loadout.
> 
> For those unfamiliar with the concept, "minutemen" were those ready and willing to respond to militia orders within a "minute's notice", and have all their gear at the ready at all times for such a call. These were prominent during the times surrounding the American Revolution, and the concept has become a bit more widespread in recent years due to the last U.S. administration.
> 
> With the reminder from our discussions that we must always be vigilant and ready, I'm reassembling mine again. I have no current reason to believe its need is imminent, but if the time comes that it is, I don't want to be caught flat-footed. We are "preppers", after all.
> 
> I have taken the time to choose a rifle, a sidearm, magazines, and a plate carrier, and all of these things are assembled together and ready. They do NOT, by any means, complete my kit. My kit has been separated over the past two years for various reasons, and I'm going to be rectifying that over the next few days to weeks. (this could be a new discussion unto itself)
> 
> This post is intended to request assistance from the community, and get opinions on a very specific type of knife to include with this loadout.
> I have fine-cutting and utility knives aplenty. What I lack is a true fighting knife. I could make due with a few I have, but I'm not convinced any of them would be ideal.
> 
> I'm reaching out to all of you to pick your collective brains and learn from your experiences.
> I know of the legendary Ka-Bar, and I've heard good things about the SOG Seal Pup. There are things I like and dislike about both.
> I'm wanting to learn whether my opinions align with the true nature of a fighting knife, or if I'm just an unschooled pleb relying on bad intuition. (likely)
> I consider myself a "knife guy", in that I've been collecting them and learning about them since I was 10. I even spent time focusing my learning on the many aspects of the sword. I've just never taken the time to learn about fighting knives.
> 
> So, to the community...
> What makes a good fighting knife?


Rogers Rangers orders had each ranger provide a knife or a hatchet. In my humble opinion a good hatchet - east wing or the like - makes a much more intimadating weapon than a knife.


----------



## The Tourist

Prepared One said:


> I have a 5 foot nothing brunette that threatens to end my life on a fairly regular basis. Usually after I have pushed her buttons. I married her but I don't think that will save me.


At least you have a chance of escaping alive. The Vegas odds on my life are in single digits...

Now get this, she wanted a knife, and she had bought small folders from me before. She asked me for a TOPS C.A.T. tanto. I asked her what color, and she said _"Black--blade, handle and sheath--and mirror finish it."_ So I did.

I must admit, I watched the police section of the local newspapers for a few days.

The first picture is how her knife really looks. The other pictures are similar knives with the polished finish.


----------



## Kauboy

Prepared One said:


> These are just two of many but these would be my go to if it came to a fight. The Ontario SP4-95 Spec plus navy ( On the right ) would be my first choice. Ribbed, light, and will stay in my hand. Holds a good edge. It is part of my load out. The BK7 KAY-BAR is a beast. That is part of my BOB. Can be used for general survival needs and a fighting knife as well. The handle needs work as it is slippery and there is no guard to keep your hand from slipping up on the blade when slick or bloody. I
> 
> Comes down to it if I am down to fighting with knives I am in a world of hurt. I ain't no Rambo but I can say anyone who is in a knife fight better be prepared to be hurt, win or loose. I consider the knife a stand off, last ditch, measure, used only to gain distance so I can either move to a better position (Like get the freakin hell out of there) or get to a pistol or rifle. Like I said, if I am down to knives, I have lost the war.
> 
> Still, when you need one, you really need one.
> View attachment 72097


Thanks for the info on the BK-7. After looking at it, I had almost discounted it from my list of possibilities. After hearing about its poor grip, it's out of the running.

I've recently found the CRKT OC3, and really like the dual-edge and 6" blade length. The only downside is no hilt to stop forward hand slippage.









I really want to hold it though. I don't trust buying a knife I can't hold first.


----------



## Prepared One

Kauboy said:


> Thanks for the info on the BK-7. After looking at it, I had almost discounted it from my list of possibilities. After hearing about its poor grip, it's out of the running.
> 
> I've recently found the CRKT OC3, and really like the dual-edge and 6" blade length. The only downside is no hilt to stop forward hand slippage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really want to hold it though. I don't trust buying a knife I can't hold first.


It's like buying a good suite on line. That will turn out well. You really need to see how it fits you before you put your money down. I am comfortable with the Ontario SP4 Navy as my go to knife in a fight. As I said, it holds the edge, light, strong, and will stay in my hand. Just one of those knives that feels good and gives you confidence, plus I like the hilt, which adds to the confidence. The BK-7 is a great all around knife and will take a lot of abuse. You can chop wood with the dang thing, and if you have to, fight with it.


----------



## Jammer Six

If I were looking for a knife for knife fight, (which I never will be) I'd go back to the Middle Ages, where knives were actually used by pros for fighting. Professionally. I've never seen a modern design with appropriate features for fighting. Because, well, they're not used for fighting anymore other than outside of bars.

Talking about which knife is best for fighting is like talking about which buggywhip is best for commuting. Both discussions ignore the whole point of the activity.

If you have an arm and a hand that can use a knife in a fight, you will always have better options at knife range.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

bigwheel said:


> I love Machetes. Reminds me of the good old Boy Scouts. Put down much brush and a few snakes heads with mine. They stack em deep and sell em cheap at the feed store.


Absolutely.
I have several South American ones, a USGI, and a sugar cane knife. A Jamaican sugar cane knife's only drawback is you can't stab with it. But one will take off an arm with one blow.

But, if I had to use a melee weapon I would love to find a USGI Korean War-Vietnam War folding entrenching tool. The kind with the straight wooden handle, not the modern triangular one. You can so some serious work with one. And I ain't talking about digging a foxhole.
And, if you are a hiker or camper, one would not be out of place on your pack or belt.


----------



## Coastie dad

Oh, buddy...I remember some of those were still floating around, and the older guys preferred them over the little folding handle jobbers. Talk about skull splitters...


----------



## Kauboy

Jammer Six said:


> If I were looking for a knife for knife fight, (which I never will be) I'd go back to the Middle Ages, where knives were actually used by pros for fighting. Professionally. I've never seen a modern design with appropriate features for fighting. Because, well, they're not used for fighting anymore other than outside of bars.
> 
> Talking about which knife is best for fighting is like talking about which buggywhip is best for commuting. Both discussions ignore the whole point of the activity.
> 
> If you have an arm and a hand that can use a knife in a fight, you will always have better options at knife range.


You seem to have nothing to contribute to the topic, as requested.
Please, feel free to keep the unhelpful comments to yourself. I won't mind.
Thanks!


----------



## Jammer Six

The object is the fight, not the knife. Go to the knife forums. They don't like me either. You should fit right in.


----------



## Urinal Cake

Anyone looking for CRKT, lemme know, cost +10%+ $3.99 shipping.








or these: $10 shipped


----------



## The Tourist

Jammer Six said:


> The object is the fight, not the knife. Go to the knife forums. They don't like me either. You should fit right in.


I'm a knife salesman and a polisher and they don't like me either. You've obviously committed the cardinal sin and become a heretic. Let me explain.

To a knife forum, an edged tool has one main use--to fight, or more accurately to duel. Whether it's because they fear firearms or have seen "The West Side Story" one too many times isn't clear. All I know is something called "reality." Our Governor signed legislation making switchblades legal again, and so fair all that has gone up is the statistics of bangers who cannot shoot straight.

More guys buy a knife for their jobs to strip wire or open boxes. If it's a personal jackknife, fully 75% of its use will be for preparing or slicing food.

The knife duelers (as I call them) cannot or will not accept this. If they were true, then the Cold Steel Immortal would be flying off the shelves because it is based on the Greek Xiphos and Roman Gladius, truly the most dangerous edged weapons ever used in actual combat.

I bought one, polished it, it's still in inventory. The reason? It's worthless for just about everything except stabbing. Not slashing, that's not why the Greeks and Romans chose it. They found that stabbing produced quicker kills. There's even a company that makes them called USGladius.

To put a point on it, pardon the pun, our Barnes and Nobel quit ordering Tactical Knives Magazine because no one was buying it. The only knife writer worth anything is Jerry Vancook, and I haven't seen an article by him in years.

If you want to meld knife usage into your life, go to the ESEE forum and find out if Randall is having a survival class near your area. At least it's reality driven.


----------



## Coastie dad

Hell yeah...been to one, scheduled for another. Find out all kinds of things a knife can be used for.


----------



## Coastie dad

Should add that after Esee classes you find out how big a small knife is.


----------



## The Tourist

Coastie dad said:


> Should add that after Esee classes you find out how big a small knife is.


And I agree, I owned an ESEE 3 and a Number 5 for years.

I do like corrosion resistance, but liked ESEE's simple design. When Bradford came out with his Guardian 3 and 4 in 3V, I bought one of each.

I'm seeing the design come back in a few of the blade magazines.


----------



## Coastie dad

The 4 and izula 2 are becoming my favorites, even though I keep the 5 handy for grunt work.


----------



## Coastie dad

We got away from the op again....

If I were going to attach a knife to my lbe with the idea I'm going to battle, it would be the 5.


----------



## The Tourist

Coastie dad said:


> If I were going to attach a knife to my lbe with the idea I'm going to battle, it would be the 5.


I'm in the same ballpark. I would choose the Bradford Guardian 4 in 3V, or the TOPS C.U.T. 4.0 for the job.

But I usually carry folders during the "average" day. I completely polished a Ruger 2-Stage Compact. It's a flipper with a skull crusher on the end of the handle.

Depending on how the Mcusta turns out (UPS is bringing it tomorrow) I might lug that for tests.


----------



## Coastie dad

In the spirit of the op I should have explained, but a yearling child hopped on my lap yesterday.

The 5 has a thick, beefy blade that won't bend under most conditions. A nice point for penetration and a non slip grip with a formed in hand guard. I wouldn't consider it a slicer due to its thickness, but it has a glass breaker on the pommel and would open up a hellatious big wound channel if rammed into a soft underbelly. It weighs a pound, which sucks for added weight when carrying, but gives you that added force if needed to drive in or crush a skull.


----------



## The Tourist

Coastie dad, I have a picture of my polished Number 5 in my records somewhere, but I wanted to show you just how sharp you can get an ESEE. It's very good carbon steel, and the new plant they created looks like something out of NASA.

If I find the Number 5, I'll post that, too.


----------



## Mosinator762x54r

This guy does a remarkable job in testing field knifes. And by testing I mean anhilating.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCReKyb0rO1E2Leamipn7Yfg/playlists

Based on his videos and a other reviews my "go to" knife is the Cold Steel GI Tanto...with the hope that I never need to go to it. In my opinion you cannot buy a better hunk of sharpened steel for $25. I stippled the handle of mine. It's a nasty nasty piece of high carbon that I'd put up against just about anything.


----------



## The Tourist

Coastie dad, I found it!


----------



## Kauboy

I appreciate the Esee recommendations! I had started looking online at the 6 not two days ago.

I'm here to give an update.
I took a trip to our local knife shop, and then to our local Cabela's to see what was available.
I was looking for the CRKT OC3 I mentioned, but had all kinds of alternatives in mind too, including the Esee series.
All I can say is, this area sucks for finding quality knives. Both places, that easily carry the largest selection of knives in the Fort Worth area, were lacking on all fronts.
The OC3? Nowhere to be found. Ka-Bar 7" tanto? Sold out everywhere. Entire Esee series carried at Cabela's? Discontinued from my local store.
The only one I could find, that I'd had my eye on, was the Gerber Strongarm. As mentioned, it's a 420HC steel 4.8" single edged blade with a full tang through the handle, which is overmolded with glass-filled polymer and a diamond patterned rubber coating. Very grippy and solidly held in either the sabre or reverse grips.








I did end up buying that one, since it was 30% off. Not the best option, but the best I can find for now. The included sheath was designed to be lashed horizontally on a belt, hanging from the belt with a loop, or affixed to Molle webbing. I have to say, it affixed to my Molle extremely well. No wiggle, and easy to attach and detach.
For now, this thing will fit the bill until I can make an excuse to travel 2 hours to the other Cabela's on the other side of Dallas. Apparently they still have their Esees in stock.
I had already kinda decided on getting this one, even if I also found one of the others. The price was right, at $52.
While it does have a pointed striking pommel, it doesn't have the blade thickness or mass of the Esee, which I think would work well for delivering a blow.

The edge was sub-par, so I took care of that. Shaves hair now.
I can't see how pretty I look in it, but that was never the goal.
:vs_smirk:
@Urinal Cake, do you have a means to acquire that OC3, and can you beat the Amazon price of $79?


----------



## Kauboy

I'd say it works well with the existing kit. Not too big. I don't hit myself when drawing it.







Thoughts?


----------



## Urinal Cake

Kauboy said:


> @Urinal Cake, do you have a means to acquire that OC3, and can you beat the Amazon price of $79?


Yes, $74 delivered.
I am placing an order this a.m.
lemme know!


----------



## Robie

Kauboy said:


> I appreciate the Esee recommendations! I had started looking online at the 6 not two days ago.
> 
> I'm here to give an update.
> I took a trip to our local knife shop, and then to our local Cabela's to see what was available.
> I was looking for the CRKT OC3 I mentioned, but had all kinds of alternatives in mind too, including the Esee series.
> All I can say is, this area sucks for finding quality knives. Both places, that easily carry the largest selection of knives in the Fort Worth area, were lacking on all fronts.
> The OC3? Nowhere to be found. Ka-Bar 7" tanto? Sold out everywhere. Entire Esee series carried at Cabela's? Discontinued from my local store.
> The only one I could find, that I'd had my eye on, was the Gerber Strongarm. As mentioned, it's a 420HC steel 4.8" single edged blade with a full tang through the handle, which is overmolded with glass-filled polymer and a diamond patterned rubber coating. Very grippy and solidly held in either the sabre or reverse grips.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did end up buying that one, since it was 30% off. Not the best option, but the best I can find for now. The included sheath was designed to be lashed horizontally on a belt, hanging from the belt with a loop, or affixed to Molle webbing. I have to say, it affixed to my Molle extremely well. No wiggle, and easy to attach and detach.
> For now, this thing will fit the bill until I can make an excuse to travel 2 hours to the other Cabela's on the other side of Dallas. Apparently they still have their Esees in stock.
> I had already kinda decided on getting this one, even if I also found one of the others. The price was right, at $52.
> While it does have a pointed striking pommel, it doesn't have the blade thickness or mass of the Esee, which I think would work well for delivering a blow.
> 
> The edge was sub-par, so I took care of that. Shaves hair now.
> I can't see how pretty I look in it, but that was never the goal.
> :vs_smirk:
> 
> 
> @*Urinal Cake*
> , do you have a means to acquire that OC3, and can you beat the Amazon price of $79?


I think you'll like it...tough knife.

I modified the sheath somewhat like this chap did....the rubber around the connection point and added a pouch to the front.


----------



## The Tourist

Kauboy said:


> I can't see how pretty I look in it, but that was never the goal.


A survival knife should have a little "tooth" to the edge, but still be sharp.. The Japanese call this a "kirinaga" edge.

A knife carried for fending or defense should be polished, so every slice backs up the attacker.


----------



## Kauboy

The Tourist said:


> A knife carried for fending or defense should be polished, so every slice backs up the attacker.


Can you explain what this means?


----------



## Robie

Kauboy said:


> Can you explain what this means?


"Oooooh...sharp knife. Maybe I should rethink this" :vs_laugh:


----------



## Kauboy

Robie said:


> "Oooooh...sharp knife. Maybe I should rethink this" :vs_laugh:


I mean, I polished the slide of a gun once to a mirror finish... but it didn't make it any sharper.
Maybe I'm missing something, but does a polish change the effectiveness of the cut? The edge is the only thing doing the cutting, not the bevel.


----------



## Robie

Kauboy said:


> I mean, I polished the slide of a gun once to a mirror finish... but it didn't make it any sharper.
> Maybe I'm missing something, but does a polish change the effectiveness of the cut? The edge is the only thing doing the cutting, not the bevel.


The edge also gets polished.

I've never polished the edge of a knife to a mirror finish but have used the "scary sharp" method of sharpening for my woodworking chisels. Polished to the point they have a mirror finish. There is much less effort needed to attain my desired result.

It comes directly into play with the topic. A knife that is scalpel sharp is going to be much more useful in defeating a foe than one that is just sharp. I can shave the hair off my arms with my knives but I doubt any surgeon would find them sharp enough for his/her purposes.


----------



## Kauboy




----------



## Kauboy

Robie said:


> I modified the sheath somewhat like this chap did....the rubber around the connection point and added a pouch to the front.


Finally stopped to watch this.
That pouch is an excellent idea, and actually solves a problem I was going to have with mounting this knife on my carrier.
I have two of those same mag pouches lying around somewhere, and this will give me the ability to add back one of the pistol mag carriers I had to remove to make this knife fit on the front. Thanks for the vid!


----------



## Urinal Cake

Personally, I like the Shrill and the Sting...from CRKT


----------



## The Tourist

Kauboy said:


> Can you explain what this means?


Certainly. This dates back to articles that Massad Ayoob wrote during the 1980s. He posed for pictures of knife moves, etc. These were based on training he had taken from Eskrima. Ayoob's knife angle dealt with having an attacker get too close, making a pistol draw harder.

He recommended "fending." And since your strikes would be fast (and probably sloppy) a good sharp knife or tactical pen would back up the attacker. Ayoob also wrote that a sharp knife stuck into an attacker, rotated 180 degrees and slashed out of the wound was often confused by a coroner as a shotgun slug wound.

Ayoob believed in this idea to the extent that he designed his own knife. I have also posted pictures of that knife.

Strangely, Ayoob and I were once on the same forum, and he and I exchanged PMs once he saw my work. He wanted a knife polished, but never sent one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnis

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...e&qpvt=Ayoob+designed+folding+knife&FORM=IGRE


----------



## Jammer Six

If Ayoob is in favor of something, that should tell you you're headed in the wrong direction.


----------



## Kauboy

Jammer Six said:


> If Ayoob is in favor of something, that should tell you you're headed in the wrong direction.


Normal people follow up their accusations with additional information. If you have counterpoints, present them.
Otherwise, stop with this one-liner bullshit intended to make you appear smarter than you are.

Damn, you're getting annoying.


----------



## jim-henscheli

Jammer Six said:


> If Ayoob is in favor of something, that should tell you you're headed in the wrong direction.


Surely you must have breath of the foulest sort, being so full of shite. Honestly, jammed-full-o-dicks, you are one the most pathetic characters I've ever come in contact with, at once both obnoxious and pitiful.
On the one hand you're so stupid and odious that you repel even the best, most compassionate people, but under that stupidity is a pathetic, lonely and isolated old sod, desperately reaching out for attention, any attention.
Truly, do us all a favor, and your self a kind escape, and go die.


----------



## The Tourist

Oh, I don't mind being challenged on an implement or idea. But I would like to hear the rebuttal. Because of those Ayoob articles, I do carry two knives. One for eating and the other for fending.

Here's my rationale. In most crowds, no one is 21 feet from you. In fact, some thieves, like purse snatchers, try too get as close to you as possible. Just about everyone will back up if sliced or poked with tactical pen. This separation and added time allows you to make a better constructed defensive move.

Ayoob was not the only one espousing this. Evan Marshall and Chuck Taylor were also writing about defensive pistol tactics during this time period.


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## Jammer Six

Tueller means you don't have time.

I've never heard of drawing a different weapon because you don't have time to draw a firearm presented as a solution. Most of what I've seen has been aimed at generating time.


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## The Tourist

The drill proffers you can shoot back, in most cases using what is known as "the speed rock." You draw your pistol, leave it at waist height, lean slightly back and fire. In most cases this is a torso hit.

The fending idea is that the attacker has grabbed you or is hitting you and any aimed fire is difficult. Even punching with your non-dominant hand is fending. Any move that buys you time for a draw.

I carry knives that are placed so they can easily be reached. Any slice will back up the attacker, thus buying time. If you get your pistol, get tied up in a scuffle, fire and miss, the advantage of a firearm is over. Your object is to hit, and that means separation.


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## Annie

Can't carry a gun here so I carry a cheap knife and pepper spray for protection. You never know.


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## The Tourist

Annie said:


> Can't carry a gun here so I carry a cheap knife.


What kind of a knife do you carry? Even a cheap knife can be polished.


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## Kauboy

The Tourist said:


> What kind of a knife do you carry? Even a cheap knife can be polished.


She linked it in her sentence. A fine little sticker.


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## The Tourist

Kauboy said:


> She linked it in her sentence. A fine little sticker.


I saw the word "knife" underlined, but I did not know it connected to a link.

I polish a lot of the Schrade knives. The most common ones here are the SCHF14 and the SCHF15, which is my favorite. Come to think of it, I have box-stock, unpolished 15 in my knife cabinet.


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## Coastie dad

Poof! I'm back! @The Tourist I've been stropping my blades lately and while my finish isn't mirrored yet, the edges are really sharp. The more I work them, the higher the polish shows. My 5 and BK2 both shave hair easily.
@Kauboy, there is nothing wrong with that Gerber, especially for the price.


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## The Tourist

Right now I'm working on a folder with a Japanese folded steel blade. It will take me a few days to polish it, but I'll post pictures. It all starts like this...


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## UncleMorgan

Ah. Knives! So many choices, so little time!

Guns beat knives. That's why wars are fought with guns.

On the other hand, knives don't make any noise, never run out of ammo, and seldom jam--except maybe in a rib cage or spine, now & then.

Or a skull.

I consider one of the most effective of all "self-defense/combat knives" to be a fencing foil, AKA a "weenie-wire". But not the practice kind with a blunt tip. A fully sharp one.

You actually only need a hand guard (bell) on a foil if you're going up against another swordsman, so the skinny little foil by itself is easy to conceal.

Even a mediocre fencer can easily kill an unarmored opponent in a split second with a foil.

An attacker wearing a bulletproof vest is normally unarmored from the collar up, and thus might as well not be armored at all. Most opponents would probably not even have a vest.

One little poke through the throat, mouth, eye, or just into the face or head in general would probably be enough to do the job.

And there's no rule that says you can't poke on full auto. Or in groups of three.

The fencer also has the unrestrained option to make Swiss cheese out of hands, arms, legs, feet, groins, and the entire front of an opponent's body.

And if that wasn't enough, getting whipped with a weenie-wire is about like getting hit with a bull whip.

One slap across the wrist will take a gun or knife right out of a person's hand. One across the side of the neck will put a attacker flat on the ground.

A foil has more range than any ordinary knife, and the tip literally moves too fast to be seen. No one with a short knife can block a foil, or best someone who has a foil.

Of course, a foil is not well adapted to eating*, carving a leg of lamb, cleaning fingernails, or silently taking out sentries. That's why one should also carry a cute little itty-bitty baby-knife too. Say, in their boot.

A foil is an unconventional approach, but one worth thinking about.

And an old "broken" foil with a raggedly jagged point just fits so_ nicely_ under a car seat...

* (Except weenies, marshmallows, and shish-ka-foil.)


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## Urinal Cake

The answer is: The one on the end of your rifle.


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> What kind of a knife do you carry? Even a cheap knife can be polished.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019RSXPEI?tag=vs-outdoors-convert-amazon-20


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## Annie

Kauboy said:


> She linked it in her sentence. A fine little sticker.


it is sharp.


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## rice paddy daddy

I'm actually looking at sword canes.
Legal in Florida.
Most of them have 12" and 14" blades, but Cold Steel has a nice long 1055 carbon steel blade and an aluminum shaft that could be used in the off hand for blocking or striking.

At my age, walking with a cane would not be out of place at all.

https://www.smkw.com/cold-steel-carbon-steel-heavy-duty-sword-cane#specs-container


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## The Tourist

Annie said:


> it is sharp.


No doubt. I would also recommend a Kershaw Barge. They can be polished and they have a prying device at the end of the handle.

I sell a lot of them to women and I've seen advertisements for preppers--one where a big tough galoot is stripping wood with a Barge for kindling.

And because it's small and clips to your jeans, you can carry it to most places where a fixed blade might be frowned upon. If you look at the picture of my folded steel knife about to be polished, you'll see a Barge to its left.


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## Annie

The Tourist said:


> No doubt. I would also recommend a Kershaw Barge. They can be polished and they have a prying device at the end of the handle.
> 
> I sell a lot of them to women and I've seen advertisements for preppers--one where a big tough galoot is stripping wood with a Barge for kindling.
> 
> And because it's small and clips to your jeans, you can carry it to most places where a fixed blade might be frowned upon. If you look at the picture of my folded steel knife about to be polished, you'll see a Barge to its left.


Thanks. I'll look into it. $21.00 on Amazon is pretty good. I don't know if it's legal in NJ to carry, but it probably is though since they're calling it a utility knife. I like that it folds.


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## loverboy

lol swordfight only happens on movies and right-holdapers use mini knives.


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## Kauboy

loverboy said:


> lol swordfight only happens on movies and right-holdapers use mini knives.


Oh, of course...
That's why every single military in the history of the world has taught blade work... cuz the movies. Silly me.


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## NotTooProudToHide

Feel free to disregard this, its been a while a since this thread was created and there's a good chance I'm totally wrong but I seem to have an obsession with the Gurkha Kukri.

HIMALAYAN IMPORTS - Khukuris, page 1 : khukuri, kukri, kukris, khukri, kukhri, gurkha, gorkha, gurka, Nepal

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-C...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6Y0VKZP4F1V009E9200E

They are big. They are heavy. The right blade in the right hands can decapitate a person with ease, can chop firewood, can clear brush. They are pretty cool knives!


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## rice paddy daddy

NotTooProudToHide said:


> Feel free to disregard this, its been a while a since this thread was created and there's a good chance I'm totally wrong but I seem to have an obsession with the Gurkha Kukri.
> 
> HIMALAYAN IMPORTS - Khukuris, page 1 : khukuri, kukri, kukris, khukri, kukhri, gurkha, gorkha, gurka, Nepal
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-C...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=6Y0VKZP4F1V009E9200E
> 
> They are big. They are heavy. The right blade in the right hands can decapitate a person with ease, can chop firewood, can clear brush. They are pretty cool knives!


Absolutely. Beats a 3" folder all day long.
There are a lot of cheap, stainless steel kukri's around. I personally would avoid them.
I would like a heavy, thick, carbon steel one.

But every time I get the itch for one, I remember that being a Floridian I have 5 or 6 carbon steel, South American made machetes out in the barn already. Which will pretty much do the same thing.
:tango_face_smile::tango_face_smile:


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## Prepared One

rice paddy daddy said:


> Absolutely. Beats a 3" folder all day long.
> There are a lot of cheap, stainless steel kukri's around. I personally would avoid them.
> I would like a heavy, thick, carbon steel one.
> 
> But every time I get the itch for one, I remember that being a Floridian I have 5 or 6 carbon steel, South American made machetes out in the barn already. Which will pretty much do the same thing.
> :tango_face_smile::tango_face_smile:


I have a couple of SA Machetes hanging on the garage as well. One I got from my Grandfather when he passed years ago. It's the one I usually grab first when machete work needs to be done. They just seem to be indestructible.


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## MisterMills357

What makes a good fighting knife? I answer that with, "Can it save my life during an attack?" If it can, then it passes my test.

The ones that I have had.
Fixed Blade:
1. Camillus Fighter
2.Buck Special

Folder:
1.CRKT M16 {I consider it a fighter because: it is so fast to open, it is made like a stiletto, and it is a strong design.}
2. Gerber Gator {It is big and sharp, and it is a good pocket carry fighter.}
I am pretty mundane, and easy to please, and I can put up a furious fight with a folder.:tango_face_smile: But, if a pit bull is involved, or multiple attackers; I would want a fixed blade.

I took a file to the Camillus {it was a K-Bar design} and I got it sharp enough to use as a kitchen knife. I put a better point on it too, and it was a fearsome knife.
I can say the same thing about the Buck Special, it can be turned into a real fighter, and all that it takes, is to sharpen it up.


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## Lunatic Wrench

I don't think most people that are threatening you with a knife actually know how to fight with it, not that I really do either. I'll have to rely on the knowledge I've acquired from Hollywood :vs_laugh:

I'll have a couple smaller fixed blades handy for general use/defense. For my BOB I'm going a little Crocodile Dundee with an Ontario knives CT2 12" saw back machete that will be kept handy. 
Not great for stabbing, but it is menacing and should make most rethink their next move, and chances are I'll have one of my smaller knives in my other hand.


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## The Tourist

You guys have chosen some good examples for the forum. For example, I thought I was the only one that had a collection of the Barge(s). If memory serves me, and it never does, I think we had the unveiling a time or two ago. But don't let that bother you, this is a knife we all should know about and hopefully own.

Now, let me break into the discussion of Barges, Kukris and your average door stops. Long before most of you were born I was a blade snob. The big deal of that (ahem) "former year" was that nothing seen on TV ever made it to the college dorms. We had the usual collection of "stuff from home." And I won't even discuss what my first stiletto cost! Yikes!

I had the desire to own a folder that had a blade tantamount to a "Bowie Knife." I never warmed to the "butterknife" shape. And the only guys selling knives to kids were comic book paragraphs in cheap tabloids. Fortunately I found the only on-line salesman that would send knives in the mail. I think we marked the box, "Easy, Fine China."

Before I leave, I'd like to add one thing. A member here made reference to Crocodile Dundee. I have only seen that knife in movies. I have lived in Wisconsin all my life, and *I have never seen one for sale or display*.


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## Buckman

There ya go


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## 46camper

I think the new Buck GCK (Ground Combat Knife) is a good style of fighting knife.
Or at least the spear point model. It also comes in a Tanto style. The blade is 5.5 inches long . It’s 5160 carbon steel. Overall length is 10 3/4 inches. Comes in a coyote tan or grey . 
The tan color knife has a tricolor canvas Micarta handle . The grey knife has G10 handle . It’s a full tang knife. 
Although it’s a combat knife it can also preform other survival knife chores fairly well . I have one and I was impressed with it. I have not really done anything with it. I have a Ontario Rat-5 for that stuff. I bought it to put on my gun belt. If it was all I had though ,I would not feel I was lacking or that I could not do any survival task with it. 
When I decided to get it it was sold out everywhere. I finally found one I paid $99.99 for mine. Bucks website has it priced for $110. Knifecenter has the grey model listed for $99.99 . The tan GCK is sold out. As with both models from the Buck website are sold out. 
Blade HQ has the grey model. SMKW are sold out as well .
The tan Buck GCK seems to be the hardest to get . 
Anyway that’s what I would chose for a combat knife . My second knife choice would be Tops knives Missile strike . 
It is definitely a combat specific knife for sure. 
It was sold out every time I had the money to buy it. Looking for the Tops Missile strike is how I came across the Buck GCK 
Hope that helps . 
I’m new to the forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Tourist

*That's why every single military in the history of the world has taught blade work*.

I agree. Then again, I happened to be lucky one afternoon.

I had just finished a "lesson" with a real deal trainer who knew *all three weapons* by heart. As was the time, I had only a foil, but the teacher made sure I saw an epee over time. BTW, I am lousy with an epee. It's heavy, it's slow, and it is usually owned by "fencers" who claim to know everything. You can probably watch epee owners try *three different times* to get his "weapon" into his sword bag.

Here's another feature, and if this happened to you, do not feel slighted. Learning the epee is slow, determined, deft and often the weapon used in 18th century dueling. It is heavy so that *you* slow down! You're trying to stick the sword into your enemy, and that's impossible after your enemy has just stuck his weapon into you.

Some guys do not watch! I once made a point on my 'enemy' with one "beat." A beat is a simple slap on your opponent's sword *so he over reacts* and shows his full chest. BTW, he was the adult trainer for the college classes. I had gotten impatient and he scored several points. The smoke shot out of my ears, until I heard my dearly departed Uncle Jack in my head say, "_That teacher is shorter, fatter and uses an epee so old it's about to break._"

Yeah, I smirked. Then I saw a *small ribbon of white injury tape* dangle from the pommel of his epee. I landed the first score quite easily, after all, most college teachers see only lower echelon students going out for a position on the team. When I saw the teacher bear down, I moved my right front foot to the extreme left edge of the mat, making my "target chest" out of bounds. There for a second I thought that egotist would just pull even a better weapon. To my surprise, the teacher just threw caution to the wind with epee stabs, saber-like slashes and highly illegal footing. I stayed cool (somehow), and saw that the teacher was "short enough" just to make a 'head cut' (which landed). The teacher bounced back like he thought he was dreaming. After all, this 'teacher' had never met the 'teacher' who taught us at Menomonee Falls High School.

Yes, every guy I ever met in the military had some form of "facing the enemy." And each one of them suggested I simply imagine them as tackling dummies. If you fear or think you'll get beaten for sure you will lose every time.

I once said to a combatant, "_Hey, Smirdley, if I win do I get one of your slick little medals_?" The guy was better and should have beaten me and everyone else. He never got the idea of a "lost medal" out of his head. Beat the guy, "5 to 1" when he should have beaten me "0 to 5." Thus endth the lesson.


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