# Organized Labor Promises Civil disobedience



## Derma-Redi (Aug 23, 2014)

News from The Associated Press

"McDonald's, Wendy's and other fast-food restaurants are expected to be targeted with acts of civil disobedience that could lead to arrests Thursday as labor organizers escalate their campaign to unionize the industry's workers."
We need a "Private Sector Labor Day" in my earlier post "It's Labor Day" many of you had things to say about the negatives of Unions. Which I whole heartedly agreed with b/t/w...
In my state of Taxachusetts Unions are another form of welfare. They have actually legislated themselves job security by forcing private sector companies to charge a union wage when bidding for a public sector job such as building a school. The Unions from a work standpoint cannot compete with the private sector when it comes to staying on budget and on schedule. They thrive on fraud and cost overruns. See The BIG DIG . It's called the Pacheco Law here in Mass. A state senator by the same name wrote the legislation to force private sector companies to charge as much as Unions so they would not look so appealing (worth hiring) when bidding for jobs.. Today's UNION is not your fathers or grandfathers Union so please don't even try to convince me that it is... Though I know most of you won't..


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Unions can have their place. The biggest problem I see is that they protect laggards, cheats, thieves and people who otherwise would be fired. Wendy's and McDonalds were never intended to be jobs that support entire families by asking if you want fries with that. Its entry level. A start in the work place. For those with a work ethic, it is possible to become a manager and move up or use the position as stepping stone to something else. 

Hell these were high school kids that had these jobs. That you have adults with no real prospects demanding to paid like a steel worker shows how disastrous the current economic policies are and what a failure the so called stimulus has been. Excessive taxes and regulation coupled with and entitlement mentality has driven companies abroad or has stagnated wages because that is all the company can control for its costs. 

I ask anyone, would you buy buy fast food meals for $20 each to pay workers $15/hr vs $8 and the workers get $8 to 10 per Hour? If so would affect how often you take your kids there? With real wages stagnant, higher wages in these particular businesses would cut sales and therefore some jobs will be cut and others mechanized to eliminate personnel.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

My family has a long and sordid history with the unions. I am a third generation entrepreneur. Read that to mean that the men in my family have always started our own businesses after we have worked for somebody else long enough to learn the ropes. And while we were learning the ropes, we always worked our asses off and were thankful for the opportunity given to us by our employers. 

In my granddad's case, he owned an ice and coal business in the 1920's and 1930's. His was a non-union shop. In the mid 30's there was a particularly nasty Teamsters strike in Minneapolis. A gang Teamster pricks pulled one of Grandpa's drivers from his truck and beat the guy up so bad he ended up in hospital. Then they threw tar all over the ice.

The next day Grandpa rode with his driver carrying a 20ga loaded with shells packed with rock salt. The story goes that he put three of those Teamster pricks down that day. He did not kill them, but they sure wished he had. I still have the shotgun.

In both my dad's and my case, the apple does not fall far from the tree.


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## Derma-Redi (Aug 23, 2014)

Ah the good ole' days...


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

McDonald's needs to say go to hell and then when the courts say they have to... then say OK...We will unionize, but we are replacing every teller with a a damn instant order machine and dropping our employees down by half to pay for the raise and unionization. At least then maybe they can get my order correct.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Inor said:


> My family has a long and sordid history with the unions. I am a third generation entrepreneur. Read that to mean that the men in my family have always started our own businesses after we have worked for somebody else long enough to learn the ropes. And while we were learning the ropes, we always worked our asses off and were thankful for the opportunity given to us by our employers.
> 
> In my granddad's case, he owned an ice and coal business in the 1920's and 1930's. His was a non-union shop. In the mid 30's there was a particularly nasty Teamsters strike in Minneapolis. A gang Teamster pricks pulled one of Grandpa's drivers from his truck and beat the guy up so bad he ended up in hospital. Then they threw tar all over the ice.
> 
> ...


Cool story. Your Grandpa had a pair for sure.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

If you expect a decent wage you have to work your way up and there has to be somewhere to work up to! Ala foreign trade and overseas jobs.

Why should I go to college if I can make the same amount at McDonald's. How is that fair. Or will I be making $40 an hour instead of $20?

Everything lies in sending money overseas and getting nothing for it.
How does an economy survive if it exists to send money overseas.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I have belonged to 3 unions in my life, only one that was worth anything. They elect guys and gals who serve so long they don't know the job. They say they are protecting everyone by protecting the weak and otherwise unemployable.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Growing up in Soviet Union, almost every place of work was part of a union, except that there were also "Piatiletkas" or Five Year Plan.. Meaning everyone tried to surpass the plan and finish in 3-4 years and everyone's work was evaluated at the end of the "plan" , workers that were deemed lousy or ineffective were fired and shamed by having their names on public boards in busy places. Not every work place posted names but there were definitely firings and huge difficulty getting back into your field, everyone had to be on their toes. Corruption grew in the 1980's, no one cared anymore about anything.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

Here's an example I faced. While a prison guard, which was not acceptable to the Union, I was a Correctional Officer, ya ok. They tried to keep the prison out of your personal life by not requiring a DR. Note. In California if you are a sworn Peace Officer it is against the law to refuse to work. The end result of the union efforts and the end of my employment was I was working 4 mandatory overtime shifts a week. Why. Because guys had tax appointments in November. Another guy had to take his wife to the vet to get her hooves trimmed. And on and on. So 30% of us were working 100% of the overtime.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

McDonalds and others.

Opt. 1. An employee, who requires training, will be late, sick, fail to up sell, piss off a customer, up and quit. Cost $12.5 hr with taxes, $300 a day for 24 hr "service" and thus about $110k a year.

Opt. 2. An iPad, cost about $1000 with a can't steal it case, costs $100 a week to up dear with latest promos, and is roughly $6k a year, never sick, late or fails to up sell. 

DUH


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

doesn't a Union for corrections officers create a conflict of interest since you incarcerate the potential members of the fast food industry union? seems like a conflict of interest to me....There is a lawsuit there somewhere....


ANd I can push my own button with the WHopper combo picture on it and swipe my card...Hell I already swipe my card myself...so the only thing I'm not doing is pushing the WHopper combo picture button....Je Suis tre confuse...why are they getting paid at all?


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

None of the idiots I babysat were going to work there ever


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

Oh the glorious unions. If you don't know what show and go is...problem. If your on your 3rd double shift and a coworker is walking out to go home who hasn't worked one, problem. When you associate with inmates more than your co workers....problem. Nuff said


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Jeep said:


> None of the idiots I babysat were going to work there ever


Next will be the fast food industry burglars union...that should cover those you baby sat correct? I'ma have a double burglar wit a pack a cools....hey...let me ax you a question...yall hiring?....dis bratha needs some cake.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

I could not have said it better


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I don't give a rip what they do. I refuse to put any money into McDonald's, anyway.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

Man...long as this old boy can get two cheese burgers and a coke for lessn $5....they's getting percntage of my crack money...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Old SF Guy said:


> Man...long as this old boy can get two cheese burgers and a coke for lessn $5....they's getting percntage of my crack money...


As long as the corporation supports Handgun Control, Inc., they get nothing from me except scorn.


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## Old SF Guy (Dec 15, 2013)

I can't think of anything to say that won't be perceived as bad...so I will do a very un-OSFG action and just remain silent on this.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

I'm mostly a herbivore (still eat fish once in a while), the smell that comes out of fast food restaurants is an effective warning not to eat there haha


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I drive by the drive thru gauntlet everyday, I haven't stopped yet this year.
The BK fries are intoxicating though.


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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

Unions allow drunks and junkies to build cars in America. They are all virtually fireproof and protected from any kind of discipline. I do not buy cars built by UAW members and never will.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Unions had their day.
Like tubes in TVs, they're obsolete.

They were obsolete when my family would by some Christmas toys for the kids down the street whose daddy was on-strike (for the 4th Christmas in a row). in the late `60s
They were obsolete when "men" would beat-up teenagers looking for work while they were on strike. in the `70s
They were obsolete when a union rep showed up at the hospital to inform my dad, (recovering from a quadruple bypass heart surgery - in the `70s), they could not pay his hospital bill because "the company" had an error in their records... [love those teamsters].

... as a result I have found a lot of ways I can buy American without buying union... except cars.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

The Market has take care of most private unions so I'll direct my post toward the ABSOLUTELY ****ING RETARDED CONCEPT OF Government Employee Unions. They need to be eliminated immediately. This whole concept of government employees being paid with my tax dollars and taking a portion of said tax dollars and using that as dues to help elect a political candidate that they will negotiate with when elected for their pay, benefits and retirement ALL PAID FOR BY MY ****ING TAX DOLLARS is so ridiculous. 

This is one more reason why we are doomed.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

There are several problems that these "poor" workers are overlooking. The first is that the more it costs to go to a fast food place, the less people will go to them which means that in order for a business to stay open many will have to take several of the following steps: 1) Have fewer workers and expect them to work more. If you are paying people more, you expect them to do more. Also with higher pay comes higher competition. In other words, many of the fast food workers are marginal at best, but the fast food businesses fire them because they can't get better workers to stay employed there long term. Most of the good workers work there until something better comes along. Higher pay, better workers who stay there, sub-par workers are driven out. Result, fewer but better workers.

2) Use of robotic systems, replacing workers. Initial expense may be high, but the Franchise owner doesn't have to pay increasing wages or medical expenses. Result, fewer workers.

3) Drive though windows only. There are already some fast food places that already have this. The franchise owner doesn't have to hire enough workers to work the counter. Result, less workers.

These people are not looking at the result if their demands should be met. IT doesn't matter how much profit the corporation makes, what matters is how much is the local franchise that actually pays their salary is making. These people, many who would not be able to find a job in any other industry, could be finding themselves on the street if their demands are met.

By the way, I am not saying that all fast food workers are inept or sub par, what I am saying is that many of them are, and is someone has been in charge of fries for 10 or 15 years, just maybe they aren't the cream of the crop.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

I have gone off about this issue in the past, so I'll spare you all, but I will reiterate one tiny factoid; have you ever noticed that most of the people they interview, who feel they deserve to earn more than I did even after I worked my way up to management, usually start their complaint with, "I have worked here for eight years, and you just can't live off of...".

Stop. Right. There. Your problem isn't the wage. Your problem is that you've been at McDonalds for 8 years, and you're still flipping burgers. I think, and this may make me an ass, but I think maybe you have no motivation, and you're a lazy bastard.

I hope they get what they want. I hope they raise their wage to $15/hr and 80% of that useless work force gets fired.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

CWOLDOJAX said:


> Unions had their day.
> Like tubes in TVs, they're obsolete.
> 
> They were obsolete when my family would by some Christmas toys for the kids down the street whose daddy was on-strike (for the 4th Christmas in a row). in the late `60s
> ...


I am a shop steward. I assure you, there is good reason for unions - still.

I can also tell you that unions need to focus on the reason for their creation and stop being a political tool.

As Slippy said, there is no reason for unions within the government. Insanity at its best.

As far as unions in the fast food industry, that is stupid. Those jobs are entry level, unskilled, and great places for kids to get some work experience. It is not the place for unions to demand 20 bucks an hour for obeying the sound of timers to take the fries out of the grease. Then again, they'll learn the need for reeling in unions when they lose their jobs because nobody will pay 18 bucks for a cheeseburger.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

dannydefense said:


> I have gone off about this issue in the past, so I'll spare you all, but I will reiterate one tiny factoid; have you ever noticed that most of the people they interview, who feel they deserve to earn more than I did even after I worked my way up to management, usually start their complaint with, "I have worked here for eight years, and you just can't live off of...".
> 
> Stop. Right. There. Your problem isn't the wage. Your problem is that you've been at McDonalds for 8 years, and you're still flipping burgers. I think, and this may make me an ass, but I think maybe you have no motivation, and you're a lazy bastard.
> 
> I hope they get what they want. I hope they raise their wage to $15/hr and 80% of that useless work force gets fired.


Me and Mrs Slippy's fast food consumption has gone down over the years and we're better people for that. But every now and then a good ole greasy burger just hits the spot. I know others have noticed this but most fast food workers appear to be in their late 20's 30's and older. I'm noticing even more elderly folk working at fast food joints. That is a problem in of itself and certainly a Macro Economic issue. It is no longer an entry level job. Sad.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Slippy said:


> Me and Mrs Slippy's fast food consumption has gone down over the years and we're better people for that. But every now and then a good ole greasy burger just hits the spot. I know others have noticed this but most fast food workers appear to be in their late 20's 30's and older. I'm noticing even more elderly folk working at fast food joints. That is a problem in of itself and certainly a Macro Economic issue. *It is no longer an entry level job. * Sad.


I agree with you up until that last. It is still an entry level job; even management is an entry level management position, though I can understand that some franchises take very good care of their management and I could see certain personality types staying at such a position for many years. The problem is that as we grow in numbers, so does the segment that has no motivation to ever do anything or go anywhere. These people used to be confined to working graveyard shift at the local Conoco, and kudos to them for at least paying their bills, but there's so many more of them now that they've flooded other work forces as well.

Now combine them with their socially assisted friends. At least these people work, but they know people who don't, and they see how much money they make doing nothing. How much they're just handed. Granted they aren't quitting their jobs and going on welfare (though an awful lot take advantage of both, in the past I've worked with people that bragged about getting food stamps), but they want more for less. Why should the crack house down the street be bringing in 30k a year and staying home all day when they're only making 20? Solution? $15/hr.

The problem with society is that entry level is about as far as they're committed to going.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I didn't word that very well...But I agree with you, it is an entry level job and always will be.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Slippy said:


> I didn't word that very well...But I agree with you, it is an entry level job and always will be.


My apologies, I know what you meant by saying that, but once I started posting I had to go with it.


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## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

In the last 25 years, unions have done nothing but price American products out of the market. If I owned one of these franchises and my employees walked out, they would be fired. I would close the business just long enough to hire and train new employees.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Slippy said:


> The Market has take care of most private unions so I'll direct my post toward the ABSOLUTELY ****ING RETARDED CONCEPT OF Government Employee Unions. They need to be eliminated immediately. This whole concept of government employees being paid with my tax dollars and taking a portion of said tax dollars and using that as dues to help elect a political candidate that they will negotiate with when elected for their pay, benefits and retirement ALL PAID FOR BY MY ****ING TAX DOLLARS is so ridiculous.
> 
> This is one more reason why we are doomed.


I agree. While on active duty, I was amazed that my support, supplies, and pay were being managed by union employees. I didn't like the idea at all.

I do think union played a vital role in our industrial growth and our history... but even my mail is now contracted to a civilian delivery person. I no longer see the mailman I knew as a kid.
My brother works for the post office, not as a carrier, he defends junk mail like it is the only reason he exists... may be so ... I can't remember the last time I bought a stamp.

Back to the op topic... Unions have been scaring people like communist thugs for decades... it is time they stopped it.

They (many) are communists look at the Longshore unions on the left coast who celebrate May Day every year.


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## CWOLDOJAX (Sep 5, 2013)

Pir8fan said:


> In the last 25 years, unions have done nothing but price American products out of the market. If I owned one of these franchises and my employees walked out, they would be fired. I would close the business just long enough to hire and train new employees.


You are right.
Many Asia to west coast ocean liners now take goods to Canada and Mexico... for many reasons... overpriced terminal fees is one of them.
Since I started this job, 5 years ago, transpacific volume is way down... and this year it even went down during the Christmas rush. 
The Christmas rush for shippers is June - August.


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## Moonshinedave (Mar 28, 2013)

I had been a union member for quite a few years, until last elections, when I got my union magazines supporting Obama the "working mans best friend". I live in the middle of the coal belt, and know full well Obama's war on coal, many a good person has lost and is losing their job because of Obama. 
I swear, the unions would support the devil himself if he was a registered democrat. Well, they may support the liberals, but I am happy to say they are no longer using my money to do it.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

MoonshineDave,
I've got a friend near Morgantown and if it wasn't for WVU, he says his business would be in a world of hurt. This administrations war on coal will certainly play a huge part in bringing down our way of life. Damn shame.


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

In the '60s and '70s my mother was UAW and my father was USW. They (and eventually we) lived and worked in Warren, OH. Super close to Youngstown, OH if that tells you anything. After I was much older, they explained what it was like. They really never knew if they were working for the company, the union, or the unspoken element that was in absolute power in Youngstown. In those times, they just kept their mouths shut and went to work. They said labor was just a pawn in a game being played between companies and organized crime. 

There was a time when unions saved lives and protected workers and their families as they built this nation. The power went to their heads and the rest is history. One step forward, two steps back.

We seem to be losing a coal war here in WV....if they start picking on oil and gas, we are finished here. Its just sad.


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## microprepper (Nov 21, 2013)

Derma-Redi said:


> News from The Associated Press
> 
> "McDonald's, Wendy's and other fast-food restaurants are expected to be targeted with acts of civil disobedience that could lead to arrests Thursday as labor organizers escalate their campaign to unionize the industry's workers."
> We need a "Private Sector Labor Day" in my earlier post "It's Labor Day" many of you had things to say about the negatives of Unions. Which I whole heartedly agreed with b/t/w...
> In my state of Taxachusetts Unions are another form of welfare. They have actually legislated themselves job security by forcing private sector companies to charge a union wage when bidding for a public sector job such as building a school. The Unions from a work standpoint cannot compete with the private sector when it comes to staying on budget and on schedule. They thrive on fraud and cost overruns. See The BIG DIG . It's called the Pacheco Law here in Mass. A state senator by the same name wrote the legislation to force private sector companies to charge as much as Unions so they would not look so appealing (worth hiring) when bidding for jobs.. Today's UNION is not your fathers or grandfathers Union so please don't even try to convince me that it is... Though I know most of you won't..


I'm originally from Taxachusetts myself, where I was born and raised in the union movement world. The big change to the corrupt caricature of labor that is now "unionism" came in the 1970's when the college-educated "organizers" fanned out into our communities and took over our actual locals. These were the same privileged yuppie kids you see all grown up in Washington today, who did not respect actual labor and did not understand the concept of trading a fair day's WORK for a fair day's pay. They actually believe you are better off to be living off welfare than to have to get up and risk injury on a job (or even just fatigue!) because they are superstitiously terrified of muscular activity.

I mean, they think it is ok to break your bones rock-climbing on the side of a cliff and expecting EMT's to risk their lives to get you down, but it is _not_ ok to exert your muscles meeting a loading quota in a warehouse or running a smooth rush-hour dinner crowd in a restaurant.

I used to work among people who took pride in our work and enjoyed friendly competition to meet the apparently impossible quotas set by management. Management respected us and when we needed to call a strike, it was also respected because management knew we were not fooling around. (I am thinking of an incident where a machine was set up to block a fire exit and it took less than half-an-hour to rectify the problem because the other steward signaled me to stop my department. The whole place went silent except for one machine, the one operated by a university student on summer employment while she studied labor organizing! She then tried to file a complaint through the union bureaucracy that we did not have permission from our union management to call a strike! The plain fact that we did the most cost-effective common sense thing by exercising our natural rights was beyond her ken. In fact, management had to respect us because as soon as they moved the machine, we made sure the production quota was fulfilled in spite of the half-hour shut down. But those college "unionists" would have called that a defeat because we did not damage the company!)

I could go on but I won't. I have enough disgust with the state of modern society as it is. I think I am going to go hide in some Renaissance literature for awhile. CIAOU.


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## Jeep (Aug 5, 2014)

Minimum wage is an incentive to get out and go for more


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