# Building the Wall News



## RedLion

A couple interesting bits of info.....

A no brainer to me right here....



> Republican Wants To Build The Border Wall With Drug Cartel Money


GOP Wants To Build The Border Wall With Drug Cartel Money | The Daily Caller



> The Border Wall May Not Be Concrete: DHS Looks For 'Other Designs'


DHS Looks For ?Other Designs' For Border Wall | The Daily Caller


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## Sasquatch

I heard on the radio yesterday there are already 600 California companies that are interested in the contract and 10% (60) are companies owned by Hispanics. 

Sent from a Galaxy S5 far far away.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor

As long as they dont build it out of jersey barriers and hescos! 

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## 7052

I read somewhere that one of the largest concrete suppliers in th world is in Mexico, and they said they'ed be glad to bid to supply concrete for the wall. lol

Anything for money!


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## jim-henscheli

I Work with a bunch of legal immigrants, pro family, conservative by main stream standards, and they have family who are illegal so they have some sympathy, but they are NOT pro illegal. They probably want the wall more than me, because they paidto get here!


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## Illini Warrior

Sasquatch said:


> I heard on the radio yesterday there are already 600 California companies that are interested in the contract and 10% (60) are companies owned by Hispanics.
> 
> Sent from a Galaxy S5 far far away.


the largest concrete mix company in Mexico has already signed up for the project .... liberal 84 Lumber wants the contract to provide the screen doors for the walls ...


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## Illini Warrior

jim-henscheli said:


> I Work with a bunch of legal immigrants, pro family, conservative by main stream standards, and they have family who are illegal so they have some sympathy, but they are NOT pro illegal. They probably want the wall more than me, because they paidto get here!


not only that - it's an unconfirmed rumor that the legal hispanics are the ones dropping the dime on many of the ICE captures - cleaning up the neighborhood one piece of trash at a time ...


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## jerry49




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## Kauboy

During the drive in to work, I heard on the radio about that story proposing the use of drug cartel seizures to pay for the wall, and giggled at the beautiful irony.
Technically speaking, wouldn't that qualify as Mexico paying for the wall. :tango_face_grin:


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## rstanek

I don't care who builds it, let's get it done, and most importantly, done right....


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## stowlin

Its going to be a big beautiful wall - right? That's what I voted for.


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## azrancher

stowlin said:


> Its going to be a big beautiful wall - right? That's what I voted for.


It will be beautiful, and Orange, and the people on both sides of the border will love it...

*Rancher*


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## Illini Warrior

Kauboy said:


> During the drive in to work, I heard on the radio about that story proposing the use of drug cartel seizures to pay for the wall, and giggled at the beautiful irony.
> Technically speaking, wouldn't that qualify as Mexico paying for the wall. :tango_face_grin:


watch Border Wars on a few of the cable channels - good amount of US cash trying to be smuggled south and an almost unbelievable loads of drugs coming north .... and the tunneling should be taught as an engineering class in college ....


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## Kauboy

Illini Warrior said:


> watch Border Wars on a few of the cable channels - good amount of US cash trying to be smuggled south and an almost unbelievable loads of drugs coming north .... and the tunneling should be taught as an engineering class in college ....


Fair enough, I'm perfectly ok with Mexico *AND* U.S. drug users paying for the wall. :tango_face_wink:
It's far better than decent U.S. tax payers footing it.


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## Illini Warrior

Kauboy said:


> Fair enough, I'm perfectly ok with Mexico *AND* U.S. drug users paying for the wall. :tango_face_wink:
> It's far better than decent U.S. tax payers footing it.


just the one SUV they stopped with cash was like $300,000 - I don't think the border search going south is near what it coming into the country - if they would replace the pot bundle stashes with US cash it would run into the multi-millions $$$$$


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## RedLion

I am skeptical given that the source is CBS, but a step in the right direction.



> Trump border wall: Texans receiving letters about their land


Trump border wall: Texans receiving letters about their land - CBS News


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## RedLion

Bids due today. Does anyone doubt that the lefty commies will resort to violence to try to stop the construction?



> Border wall contractors brace for hostile environment


https://www.yahoo.com/news/border-wall-contractors-prepare-hostile-environment-061613813.html


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## Sasquatch

RedLion said:


> Bids due today. Does anyone doubt that the lefty commies will resort to violence to try to stop the construction?
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/border-wall-contractors-prepare-hostile-environment-061613813.html


Do they do things any other way?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## RedLion

> Trump Border Wall Contractor Receives Over a Dozen Death Threats Since Bidding on Wall





> Michael Evangelista-Ysasaga, chief executive of The Penna Group LLC, a general contractor in Fort Worth, Texas, said he has received about a dozen death threats since publicly expressing interest in bidding, including one from a woman who told him she hired a private investigator to trail him.


Trump Border Wall Contractor Receives Over a Dozen Death Threats Since Bidding on Wall


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## RedLion

A couple of pieces....



> Trump's Border Wall Request Equals 0.035% of Federal Spending


http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/



> Border Patrol Council President Brandon Judd blasted Speaker Paul Ryan for not funding President Trump's border wall in this year's budget.


Border Patrol Union President RIPS Paul Ryan for Delaying Funding on Border Wall (VIDEO)


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## Sasquatch

Rather than a wall maybe we need a mote filled with alligators. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Prepared One

Sasquatch said:


> Rather than a wall maybe we need a mote filled with alligators.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Piranha! Piranha and alligators!.......... And land mines! Land mines, piranha, and alligators!............ Sharks! Sharks, Land mines, piranha, and alligators! :devil:


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## Sasquatch

Prepared One said:


> Piranha! Piranha and alligators!.......... And land mines! Land mines, piranha, and alligators!............ Sharks! Sharks, Land mines, piranha, and alligators!


Will the sharks have laser beams on their heads?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## RedLion

Confiscated drug runner money could easily pay for the wall multiple times over.



> Ted Cruz bill suggests using $14 billion seized from El Chapo to fund Trump's border wall &#8230; a brilliant plan?


Ted Cruz bill suggests using $14 billion seized from El Chapo to fund Trump?s border wall ? a brilliant plan? | BizPac Review


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## RedLion

It appears that the wall is pushing forward at least in CA and TX. Trump is not one to disappoint even with historical opposition by traitors.



> Feds Issue Waiver To Expedite Border Wall Construction





> The Department of Homeland Security is issuing waivers in order to expedite the construction of a border wall in the San Diego area, the agency announced Tuesday.
> 
> Carlos Diaz, a Customs and Border Protection spokesman, told The Daily Caller that the waiver is "intended to cover three projects (14 miles of primary fence replacement, secondary fence replacement, and prototype)." These 14 miles will be within the Border Patrol's San Diego Sector and start at the Pacific Ocean and move eastward.


Feds Issue Waiver To Expedite Border Wall Con | The Daily Caller



> Border Wall Construction To Begin In Just A Few Months





> Construction on the first part of President Donald Trump's promised border wall is set to begin in South Texas in a few months.
> 
> The Santa Ana National Wildlife Refuge in Texas is expected to be the site of a three mile border wall, managed by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).
> 
> Construction is set to begin in November, however, it was originally to begin in January. As WFAA reports, "construction on the wall was not expected to begin until January because Congress has yet to approve CBP's budget."
> 
> "However, CBP recently told a senior Fish and Wildlife Service official in Texas that the agency would shift funds to pay for the new segment out of its current budget," WFAA adds.


Border Wall Construction To Begin In Just A F | The Daily Caller


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## Old SF Guy

Illini Warrior said:


> just the one SUV they stopped with cash was like $300,000 - I don't think the border search going south is near what it coming into the country - if they would replace the pot bundle stashes with US cash it would run into the multi-millions $$$$$


Damn good thing I ain't border patrol or the headline would have been...Another SUV stopped with $300 cash found.....


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## RedLion

Border & Baja California News - San Diego Union Tribune


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## Urinal Cake

Stealing the Tacos money is a win win!
Or we can sell them military hardware...


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## RedLion

> Republicans will move $10 billion border wall bill next week


Republicans will move $10 billion border wall bill next week


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## RedLion

Trump holds more leverage in getting what he wants when it comes to the wall, chain migration, etc....when it comes to passing a new budget by 1/19/18.



> REPORT: Trump Wants $18 Billion For Border Wall Expansion





> The Trump administration is seeking $18 billion to construct about 700 miles of border wall and fencing over the next decade, the Wall Street Journal reported Friday.


Trump Wants $18 Billion For Border Wall | The Daily Caller


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## Gator Monroe

Build that wall build that wall build that wall ...


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## Gator Monroe

Illini Warrior said:


> watch Border Wars on a few of the cable channels - good amount of US cash trying to be smuggled south and an almost unbelievable loads of drugs coming north .... and the tunneling should be taught as an engineering class in college ....


Like the Palestinian Tunnels into Israel ?


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## RedLion

> US Commandos Unable To Scale Border Wall Prototypes In Tests





> Military special forces and U.S. Customs and Border Protection special units spent three weeks trying to scale the eight prototypes of President Trump's proposed border wall, but found the barriers extremely difficult to overcome, according to an Associated Press report.
> 
> The testers employed a variety of tools in their endeavor, such as "jackhammers, saws, torches and other tools and climbing devices."
> 
> The testers were unable to overcome the assortment of barriers due to their tall heights, according to the report. They were able to reach up to 20 feet, but required "help" after that. The border wall prototypes are around 30 feet tall.


US Commandos Unable To Scale Border Wall | The Daily Caller


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## RedLion

> DHS waives more than 30 environmental laws to speed Trump's border wall


DHS waives more than 30 environmental laws to speed Trump's border wall


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## RedLion

Another reason to get the wall fully funded and built.....



> Report: Mexican Cartel Dumped Hundreds of Corpses into Texas Border-Area Lakes





> One of Mexico's most violent cartels dumped the bodies of hundreds, perhaps thousands of their victims into various dams and lakes throughout the northern part of Mexico and along the U.S. border.


Report: Mexican Cartel Dumped Hundreds of Corpses into Texas Border-Area Lakes


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## Sasquatch

RedLion said:


> Another reason to get the wall fully funded and built.....
> 
> Report: Mexican Cartel Dumped Hundreds of Corpses into Texas Border-Area Lakes


I would guess a number of those bodies were women and children too. But the Liberals are silent on this.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## StratMaster

Case in point...


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## RedLion

> Border Wall Would Pay For Itself By Cutting Welfare Use By Illegal Immigrants





> Camarota crunched the numbers and found that if the border wall cut an expected 1.7 million illegal crossings by 200,000 - about 12 percent - over a decade, it would pay for itself in fiscal savings from welfare, public education, tax credits and other benefits available to low-income, illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America.
> 
> At the higher end of effectiveness, if a wall stopped 50 percent of those expected crossings in the next 10 years, it would save $64 billion - nearly four times the cost of the wall - in welfare and social spending alone.


Border Wall Would Cut Welfare Costs | The Daily Caller


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## RedLion

Build the damn wall.....Trump is screwing the pooch on this.



> Trump celebrates failure to build a single foot of border wall


https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/03/trump_celebrates_failure_to_build_a_single_foot_of_border_wall.html


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## RedLion

Personally I think that Trump should do exactly what he is threatening to do....shut it down.



> President Trump Fires a Shot at Democrats, GOP Leaders -Will Shut Down Government If Border Wall Not Funded


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/07/president-trump-fires-a-shot-at-democrats-gop-leaders-is-willing-to-shut-down-government-if-border-wall-not-funded/


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## Illini Warrior

RedLion said:


> Personally I think that Trump should do exactly what he is threatening to do....shut it down.
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/07/president-trump-fires-a-shot-at-democrats-gop-leaders-is-willing-to-shut-down-government-if-border-wall-not-funded/


HUGE positive for Prez Trump in his negotiations >>>>> all the damn WINNING

HUGE negative for Prez Trump in his negotiations >>>>> all the damn WINNING

stopping POTUS Trump is more important than closing down the gooberment and destroying everything ....


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## RedLion

> Trump Reiterates: Our Border Security is a Joke and I'll Shut Down the Government to Change It





> "As far as the border is concerned and personally, if we don't get border security after many many years of talk within the United States, I would have no problem doing a shutdown. It's time we had proper border security," Trump said. "We're the laughing stock of the world. We have the worst immigration laws anywhere in the world."
> 
> "We need border security. Border security includes the wall but it includes many other things. We have to end the lottery. We have to end the chain. The chain is a disaster," Trump continued, adding that the U.S. must end catch-and-release. "I would certainly be willing to close it down...I would certainly be willing to consider a shutdown to get border security."


https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/07/30/trump-doubles-down-i-have-no-problem-shutting-the-government-down-over-border-security-n2505157


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## Prepared One

RedLion said:


> Personally I think that Trump should do exactly what he is threatening to do....shut it down.
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/07/president-trump-fires-a-shot-at-democrats-gop-leaders-is-willing-to-shut-down-government-if-border-wall-not-funded/


Question is would anybody notice, or for that matter, care if he did shut it down. I was reading the other day that as many or more illegals are crossing the border here in Texas as there ever was. Shut the damn borders down now!


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## RedLion

> Proposed Bill Would Fund Border Wall By Fining Nations For Each Illegal Immigrant





> The "Fund and Complete the Border Wall Act" was introduced by Rep. Andy Biggs (R-AZ) on Tuesday. It seeks to fine nations $2,000 for each of their citizens that crosses our border illegally.
> 
> With 400,000 illegal immigrants being caught crossing the border annually, that is $800,000,000 per year towards the project.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/proposed-bill-would-fund-border-wall-by-fining-nations-for-each-illegal-immigrant/


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## Illini Warrior

latest vacation pics from the Z border >>>> happy frolicing vacationers returning home with souvenirs ...

https://dailycaller.com/2018/09/12/video-illegals-arizona-ranch/


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## Sasquatch

Illini Warrior said:


> latest vacation pics from the Z border >>>> happy frolicing vacationers returning home with souvenirs ...
> 
> https://dailycaller.com/2018/09/12/video-illegals-arizona-ranch/


Betcha a buck some of those guns they are toting are courtesy of Obama and his Fast and Furious.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## RedLion

We know that there will not be any $ for the wall after the budget is passed. Have to shut things down for a while.



> Trump Blasts R's For Lack Of Wall Funding In Spending Bill


Trump Blasts R?s For Lack Of Wall Funding In Spending Bill | The Daily Caller


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## Gator Monroe

It Trump pushed it to the brink as an October surprise I would donate 500.00$ to Him and Cruz and my Congresscritter


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## RedLion

Gator Monroe said:


> It Trump pushed it to the brink as an October surprise I would donate 500.00$ to Him and Cruz and my Congresscritter


Fed Govt fiscal year starts on 10/1, so Trump will need to start talking shut down and do it or not.


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## Jammer Six

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...bd52dfe917b_story.html?utm_term=.66bc7d8d35db

_"The trouble for Trump is that it's his own GOP allies - not just his political opponents - who have been standing in the way."

""As much as he wants to say I campaigned on this, this was the central pillar of the campaign, always attached to it was Mexico will pay for it. And they're not, of course," Flake said. "So now for him to come to Congress and say 'Pony up,' Congress says no. We never agreed to this."_

He's not a leader.


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## Gator Monroe

Open borders far left & left are in overdrive with “ The Browning of America” ...


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## stowlin

https://www.breitbart.com/texas/2018/09/20/tijuana-breaks-all-time-homicide-record-amid-cartel-war/

Sept 19, 2018 the day Mexico's record of MURDERs in 2017 was exceeded. S. holes need not let spill into America.


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## RedLion

This would be a very good time to make entirely funding the border wall a fighting point.



> Exclusive - House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy Introducing Bill to Fully Fund Border Wall, Making Midterm Immigration Referendum


https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/10/09/kevin-mccarthy-introducing-bill-fully-fund-border-wall-midterm-immigration-referendum/


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## Camel923

Hope they mean it rather than the typical empty gesture.


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## ekim

RedLion said:


> This would be a very good time to make entirely funding the border wall a fighting point.
> 
> https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/10/09/kevin-mccarthy-introducing-bill-fully-fund-border-wall-midterm-immigration-referendum/


Not a fighting point but rather a shooting place, tell them to stop and turn around or you will shoot them, then do what you should/must do. Problem solved and cheaper than a wall.


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## RedLion

I do agree that the current caravan BS is making it more likely that a wall will finally get fully funded sometime after the mid-terms.



> The Caravan Means the Wall Will Be Built


https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/the-caravan-means-the-wall-will-be-built/


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## Illini Warrior

RedLion said:


> I do agree that the current caravan BS is making it more likely that a wall will finally get fully funded sometime after the mid-terms.
> 
> https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/the-caravan-means-the-wall-will-be-built/


I wouldn't want to be the dumbazz DNCer or GOPer politician that's on record against the Wall and stopping the illegals >>>> that is one GIANTANIC black eye moving north - if you ever wanted a living breathing example of words into action - this is IT ....


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## RedLion

Illini Warrior said:


> I wouldn't want to be the dumbazz DNCer or GOPer politician that's on record against the Wall and stopping the illegals >>>> that is one GIANTANIC black eye moving north - if you ever wanted a living breathing example of words into action - this is IT ....


And word is that there is at least one other caravan forming up and getting ready to depart Central America soon as well. It is almost a perfect storm with how stupid the left is and has been to the benefit of conservatives.


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## RedLion

I see no reason why Trump should not do whatever he can to get wall funding, including a protracted govt shut-down.



> Trump Says It's a 'Good Time' for a Government Shutdown Over Wall Funding


https://pjmedia.com/trending/trump-says-its-a-good-time-for-a-government-shutdown-over-wall-funding/


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## Illini Warrior

RedLion said:


> I see no reason why Trump should not do whatever he can to get wall funding, including a protracted govt shut-down.
> 
> https://pjmedia.com/trending/trump-says-its-a-good-time-for-a-government-shutdown-over-wall-funding/


if nothing else - it's 2020 election fodder >>>> you get the entire DNC on record of opposing stopping the Central American horde from invading the US - Pelosi down on the border glad-handing the illegals as they step on the bodies of dead Border Patrol officers ....


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## The Tourist

That wall should have been built years ago. The nice thing is that self-defense (until Pelosi gets some new Botox) is still legal.

Gee, I wonder why the leftist news teams aren't reporting on illegals killing Americans?


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## The Resister

And it says in the Farmer's Almanac: If a man could have half his wishes, he'd just double his trouble.


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## Illini Warrior

https://www.citizenfreepress.com/br...o-border-patrol-chief-blows-up-cnn-narrative/

more CNN fake news and it's the Border Patrol catching the lies ....


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## stowlin

When illegals kill it's the guns fault or at best the individual with illegal left out, and as for the US lefts response it's easy to see. Impeach Trump for using chemical weapons (tear gas) on women, children and the elderly.



The Tourist said:


> That wall should have been built years ago. The nice thing is that self-defense (until Pelosi gets some new Botox) is still legal.
> 
> Gee, I wonder why the leftist news teams aren't reporting on illegals killing Americans?


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## RedLion

Quite a difference between old and new wall.



> Walls Work


https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/12/walls-work


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## RedLion

Trump better hope that there are actually "other ways to fund the wall."



> Trump White House Signals It Will Back Down from Shutdown Over Wall - Has Found Other Ways to Fund Wall


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/12/trump-white-house-signals-it-will-back-down-from-shutdown-over-wall-has-found-other-ways-to-fund-wall-video/

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2018/12/18/border-wall-funding-n2537678


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## Illini Warrior

RedLion said:


> Trump better hope that there are actually "other ways to fund the wall."
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/12/trump-white-house-signals-it-will-back-down-from-shutdown-over-wall-has-found-other-ways-to-fund-wall-video/
> 
> https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2018/12/18/border-wall-funding-n2537678


seems like the semi-fake news is reporting that any compromise figure is a Trump defeat & failure - ????? - what dumbazz can't figure out that the $5B was the start of the negotiation - the Art of the Deal final figure was always going to be $3B - the last $1.5B lasted over a year and got a good section of wall completed ....

Prez Trump has confidence and knows he has another 4 years after these 2 years - he sees urgency in geting the ENTIRE border secure - but the guy isn't frantic


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## RedLion

Illini Warrior said:


> seems like the semi-fake news is reporting that any compromise figure is a Trump defeat & failure - ????? - what dumbazz can't figure out that the $5B was the start of the negotiation - the Art of the Deal final figure was always going to be $3B - the last $1.5B lasted over a year and got a good section of wall completed ....
> 
> Prez Trump has confidence and knows he has another 4 years after these 2 years - he sees urgency in geting the ENTIRE border secure - but the guy isn't frantic


I think that it is a mistake for him to waver. He should toe a tough line now when he has nothing really to lose in doing so. I also think that he should move forward with ordering the Military to start building the wall as well. Pulling the cost of labor from them in building it, thus stretching any money farther.


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## Kauboy

RedLion said:


> I also think that he should move forward with ordering the Military to start building the wall as well. Pulling the cost of labor from them in building it, thus stretching any money farther.


This is the exact course predicted by some. The Army Corps of Engineers is capable and well funded, and already has their budget in place. The president has wide authority in matters of national security.

RED CASTLE.
GREEN CASTLE.

:tango_face_wink:


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## rice paddy daddy

Promise not kept.

But, still better than President Hillary.


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## rice paddy daddy

Promise not kept.

But, still better than President Hillary.


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## Prepared One

rice paddy daddy said:


> Promise not kept.
> 
> But, still better than President Hillary.


The phrase "President Hillary" sends chills up and down my back. :vs_OMG:


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## RedLion

Kauboy said:


> This is the exact course predicted by some. The Army Corps of Engineers is capable and well funded, and already has their budget in place. The president has wide authority in matters of national security.
> 
> RED CASTLE.
> GREEN CASTLE.
> 
> :tango_face_wink:


Rush Limbaugh was talking a bit about Trump backing off on demanding funding for the wall. He made a point that one of Trump's goals was to get Pelosi, Schumer and others to say that they did not support building the wall and that there would be "no funding for the wall ever." He further said that Trump wanted to get the lefties to basically say that the safety/security of citizens and the nation was not something that they supported. Could this be Trump trying to build toward an EO ordering the military to build the wall as the southern border is a national security risk? Interesting if nothing else.
Rush also said (Tucker Carlson has as well) that only a few people/politicians in DC want a wall, so it is basically Trump trying to get the wall with only the support of a few Freedom Caucus members and the American people.


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## Kauboy

RedLion said:


> Rush Limbaugh was talking a bit about Trump backing off on demanding funding for the wall. He made a point that one of Trump's goals was to get Pelosi, Schumer and others to say that they did not support building the wall and that there would be "no funding for the wall ever." He further said that Trump wanted to get the lefties to basically say that the safety/security of citizens and the nation was not something that they supported. Could this be Trump trying to build toward an EO ordering the military to build the wall as the southern border is a national security risk? Interesting if nothing else.
> Rush also said (Tucker Carlson has as well) that only a few people/politicians in DC want a wall, so it is basically Trump trying to get the wall with only the support of a few Freedom Caucus members and the American people.


I think that's exactly the tactic.

Originally, the estimate was 25 billion dollars for a wall. The Dems said no, that it was too expensive.
The next estimate was around 10 billion. Still Dems said no, too expensive.
Now it's a paltry 5 billion, just .1% of the total expected 2019 budget, and they STILL say it's too expensive.
The Dems have now stated that Trump will never get funding for any wall.
He has them on record. What was once an agreed upon measure that both parties said should be put in place, 10 years ago, is now the hill they plant their flag to die on in fighting against it.
The bait was placed, the hook was set, and now he's got 'em.

I still think it will get done. He just won't be asking for it specifically. Other departments under his direct control will be asked to move the money around to fund it, in the name of national security.


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## RedLion

Kauboy said:


> I think that's exactly the tactic.
> 
> Originally, the estimate was 25 billion dollars for a wall. The Dems said no, that it was too expensive.
> The next estimate was around 10 billion. Still Dems said no, too expensive.
> Now it's a paltry 5 billion, just .1% of the total expected 2019 budget, and they STILL say it's too expensive.
> The Dems have now stated that Trump will never get funding for any wall.
> He has them on record. What was once an agreed upon measure that both parties said should be put in place, 10 years ago, is now the hill they plant their flag to die on in fighting against it.
> The bait was placed, the hook was set, and now he's got 'em.
> 
> I still think it will get done. He just won't be asking for it specifically. Other departments under his direct control will be asked to move the money around to fund it, in the name of national security.


I do not know that Trump will be able to use money authorized for other purposes by Congress, but he does have the power to order the military to start building it.


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## Kauboy

RedLion said:


> I do not know that Trump will be able to use money authorized for other purposes by Congress, but he does have the power to order the military to start building it.


I don't mean shifting accounts or anything. Congress does not micro-manage internal departmental funding. They allocate monies to be used, but do not get to dictate how each department uses them. If ICE doesn't replace vehicles for a year, and instead builds 5 miles of wall, nothing Congress can do about it.
Like you, I agree it will likely come out of defense spending anyways.


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## RedLion

More good info on the wall....



> Shutdown? Dems Balk At GOP Budget Over $1 Billion Border Security "Slush Fund"





> After the White House backed down on Trump's $5 billion in wall funding, Democrats led by Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York rejected a GOP proposal which included $1.6 billion for border security and an additional $1 billion in flexible funding for Trump's immigration policies.





> "There are certainly a number of different funding sources that we've identified that we can use, that we can couple with money that would be given through congressional appropriations that would help us get to that $5 billion that the president needs in order to protect our border," said Sanders.
> 
> Schumer disagreed - saying "They need congressional approval - they're not getting it for the wall, plain and simple."


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-18/shutdown-dems-balk-gop-budget-over-1-billion-border-security-slush-fund


----------



## rice paddy daddy

Trump has no plans to build a wall. It is all a smokescreen to keep the base whipped up. I, for one, am getting very disillusioned about the whole business.
He had the military down there, stringing a few coils of razor wire for the photo op. Once the pictures were taken, the troops are being withdrawn. Why didn't they broaden the efforts?

You better believe that being a businessman, there are a ton of business lobbyists whispering in his ears how much the American economy needs imported workers - legal or otherwise. And you know, with Trump, he likes to brag about his economy.

I had great hopes for the Trump presidency. They are rapidly disappearing.


----------



## RedLion

rice paddy daddy said:


> Trump has no plans to build a wall. It is all a smokescreen to keep the base whipped up. I, for one, am getting very disillusioned about the whole business.
> He had the military down there, stringing a few coils of razor wire for the photo op. Once the pictures were taken, the troops are being withdrawn. Why didn't they broaden the efforts?
> 
> You better believe that being a businessman, there are a ton of business lobbyists whispering in his ears how much the American economy needs imported workers - legal or otherwise. And you know, with Trump, he likes to brag about his economy.
> 
> I had great hopes for the Trump presidency. They are rapidly disappearing.


I understand being disenfranchised, but I do believe that Trump does want the wall, but should have made it priority #1 from the time that the first budget/spending bill was put before him.


----------



## RedLion

Kauboy said:


> I don't mean shifting accounts or anything. Congress does not micro-manage internal departmental funding. They allocate monies to be used, but do not get to dictate how each department uses them. If ICE doesn't replace vehicles for a year, and instead builds 5 miles of wall, nothing Congress can do about it.
> Like you, I agree it will likely come out of defense spending anyways.


I do not think that a fed agencies can use funds for anything that they want and needs to use funding for specific agency purposes. I know that the VA is this way at least.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

If there is one thing most Vietnam veterans have, it is a highly sensitive Bullshit Detector.
I hate to say it, but Trump swings the needle all the way through the red zone and bounces it off the peg.

He will use the immigration issue and building the wall again in the 2020 run.


----------



## Kauboy

rice paddy daddy said:


> If there is one thing most Vietnam veterans have, it is a highly sensitive Bullshit Detector.
> I hate to say it, but Trump swings the needle all the way through the red zone and bounces it off the peg.
> 
> He will use the immigration issue and building the wall again in the 2020 run.


Well, since the wall will already be under construction by then, it would be foolish not to run on completing the job.
:tango_face_wink:


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## Demitri.14

Instead of calling it building the wall, why don't we just call it a "Shovel Ready Jobs " Program. The libtards can't refute that !


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## The Resister

This is posted in the public interest:

https://www.redstate.com/kimberly_ross/2019/01/10/president-trump-border-wall-national-emergency/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...ation-ms-13-and-crime-facts-behind-donald-tr/

"_And it says in the Farmer's Almanac - if a man could have half his wishes, he'd just double his trouble_." Johnny Cash in the song Farmer's Almanac


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## Inor

Kauboy said:


> Well, since the wall will already be under construction by then, it would be foolish not to run on completing the job.
> :tango_face_wink:


"The wall" has been under construction for at least 30 years. About 40 miles south of where I live is Douglas, AZ. There is a wall there. It is made of concrete blocks and cement and looks like it hasn't seen a mason's trowel in at least 20 years.

Yes, Trump is continuing what every president at least since Reagan has done, build a few more miles of wall/fence/barrier. That's great! I have a vested interest in having a wall since I live about a day's walk from the border. But Trump is doing no more than any president before him.

Hell, just today a reporter asked him about a part of the steel wall the illegals had cut through with a hacksaw. Trump's answer was: (paraphrased) "That was a wall Obama built. Ours will be better."

I fully support him shutting down government to get a few more miles of wall/fence/barrier. But his claim that he is going to get significantly more done on it than previous presidents (even b. hussein obama) is utter bullshit.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> This is posted in the public interest:
> 
> https://www.redstate.com/kimberly_ross/2019/01/10/president-trump-border-wall-national-emergency/
> 
> https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...ation-ms-13-and-crime-facts-behind-donald-tr/
> 
> "_And it says in the Farmer's Almanac - if a man could have half his wishes, he'd just double his trouble_." Johnny Cash in the song Farmer's Almanac


I think it is as much a national emergency as a slow death is to a body.

This has been a problem for many, many years. Due to the porous border, Hezbollah has sleeper cells in our country. So does HAMAS. We don't even have to talk about the gang members and their drugs that are brought across the border. Yes. It is a national emergency.

As I have said before, the elements of a nation are its defined borders, its people that is defined by a commonly-shared culture and its agreed upon government. Remove any element and you know longer have a nation.

I would argue that we have already lost the nation as we no longer have a common culture but that's for another argument.


----------



## Kauboy

Inor said:


> Hell, just today a reporter asked him about a part of the steel wall the illegals had cut through with a hacksaw. Trump's answer was: (paraphrased) "That was a wall Obama built. Ours will be better."
> 
> I fully support him shutting down government to get a few more miles of wall/fence/barrier. But his claim that he is going to get significantly more done on it than previous presidents (even b. hussein obama) is utter bullshit.


That was not illegals cutting the fence with a hacksaw. That was an ordered test of one of the prototypes Trump had erected to choose from. It was cut through by Border Patrol technicians using common industrial tools. The design was one from the Obama era.

As for a wall being able to be cut through, anything can be destroyed. That's not a valid reason not to do it, so I don't regard the test results as anything significant.
This barrier is not meant to be an impenetrable fortress. It is meant to delay and stall crossing until Border Patrol can respond. The media is making a big deal out of it.
They're petty, and will try anything to manipulate the people.

Until I see what Trump get's done, I'll hold judgement. No reason for jumping to any conclusions. It doesn't help.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> I think it is as much a national emergency as a slow death is to a body.
> 
> This has been a problem for many, many years. Due to the porous border, Hezbollah has sleeper cells in our country. So does HAMAS. We don't even have to talk about the gang members and their drugs that are brought across the border. Yes. It is a national emergency.
> 
> As I have said before, the elements of a nation are its defined borders, its people that is defined by a commonly-shared culture and its agreed upon government. Remove any element and you know longer have a nation.
> 
> I would argue that we have already lost the nation as we no longer have a common culture but that's for another argument.


I am well aware of the numbers of people here that disagree with me in saying that that wall idea is the wrong solution. I recall working with the late Lt. Col. Gordon "Jack" Mohr (U.S. Army.) Mohr was the first American captured in the Korean Conflict. He was beaten, tortured, and sentenced to death. He managed to escape and go back to fighting. He also wrote Army manuals on psychopolitics and brainwashing.

Anyway, Mohr was speaking to conservative group when I was a kid. I was in awe of his story and began contacting him. Before long he would ask me to ghost write articles for him. Imagine my reaction to being asked to help a man of his stature.

Most of the stories I did were based upon Soviet helicopters and Cubans running training missions and crossing over into Brownsville, Texas. We also covered the same stories about how many undocumented foreigners were coming into the United States. The first ghosted articles I worked on were published in Newswatch Magazine back in 1986. They were about the Cubans training those south of our border for an invasion. IIRC the numbers of trained terrorists was at least 10,000. Add to that, the INS (now BICE) estimates of people entering this country were the same as today. When, in 1991, we committed our forces to fight in Iraq all those trained terrorists and the invasion did not materialize. The hype never ended. Finally, in 2003 Bush commits *all* our forces to the Mideast. Still no invasion from south of the border. Adding insult to injury, there never has been an invasion from that area.

Instead, little by little, we lost America due to things we did to ourselves. We allowed our country to become the drug capital of the world and 22 percent of the world's prisoners are in American prisons. We lose 70,000 of our own people each year due to opioid overdoses. And, at the end of the day, the drug addicts are being *created* by parents, the government, doctors / mental health officials, and Big Pharma.

Our culture is being flushed down the drain by making nearly a million people become citizens and most of those from non-white countries that have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to hate, loathe and despise white people and this country in general. The birth rate for whites is zero while the fastest growing population is Hispanics. Whether you erroneously call them legal or "_illegal_," they are pushing the whites out. Adding insult to injury, it is those who have come to build their whole lives around the nutty wall that have helped pass laws to create more criminals and then push for background checks which never allows those people to rise above their past. It culminates with us having more people in prison than any nation on the planet, a disenfranchised class of people and roughly half of that demographic living off the government.

The wall is not going to work. Unlike other countries that have built walls, we are not at war like the Israelis. Americans are welcoming the people from south of the border here. And we cannot build a government big enough to save us from ourselves. We're not like China. In China roughly 92 percent of the Chinese are Han Chinese. If we even utter the idea of saving "_our culture_," the mixed multitude begins chanting how racist we are... no, wait a minute... If we get serious about what the wall idea was originally about, it's white people that want to score popularity points that are chanting the word racist.

We DON'T need a wall that a liberal administration can ignore and it become en eyesore with graffiti and people knocking it down with each new Democrat president. We need a permanent solution. You need kids off the drugs; we need prison reform that will require prisoners to get a GED and job skills in exchange for early release. We need to get people back to work. We need to cease this background check B.S. (except in relevant jobs) and not worry about the youthful indiscretion some kid did twenty years ago, but focus on the fact that they overcame that by getting an education, learned a skill and have been model citizens for a few years. You need welfare reform - a program that helps over-see welfarites and get them back into being productive citizens. We need to let employers hire the employee of their choice. Oh yeah, some of them will hire undocumented foreigners... then again, some companies will hire only the posterity of the founders and we begin to reclaim our culture by natural means. We need to insure that we can only dole out the privileges of citizens TO citizens. I could do all of that myself for a lot less than $5.7 Billion Dollars and much less in the yearly costs of maintaining and running the effort as compared to a wall - of which the enforcement *will* jeopardize your Liberty and nullify the Bill of Rights.


----------



## RedLion

You are starting to see Dem defectors. Changing their tune. Fox was talking about newly elected freshman Dem Reps in Red areas being under a lot of heat from voters to support the wall as well. I had predicted that the left would be foolish enough to be all about resistance, support no meaningful legislation, continue the Trump witch hunt and ultimately lose the House right back to the GOP in 2020.



> The Democrat Wall of Insanity Is Cracking: Top Democrats Announce Support for Border Barriers (VIDEO)


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/01/the-democrat-wall-of-insanity-is-cracking-top-democrats-announce-border-barrier-support-video/


----------



## RedLion

A side note, anyone other than maybe Denton paying attention to how Doug Jones in Alabama is sucking Trump's booty? Dude is trying like heck to have a small chance at being re-elected in 2020, but it will be a lost cause.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

The best barrier would be an anti personnel mine field.
But the leftists, tree huggers, and give peace a chance crowd will never allow it.


----------



## RedLion

rice paddy daddy said:


> The best barrier would be an anti personnel mine field.
> But the leftists, tree huggers, and give peace a chance crowd will never allow it.


Yep with a wall, concertina wire, drones, cameras, ground sensors and guards manning M240 7.62x51 Machine guns.


----------



## ekim

RedLion said:


> Yep with a wall, concertina wire, drones, cameras, ground sensors and guards manning M240 7.62x51 Machine guns.


You need to take this a little more seriously Sir.


----------



## Smitty901

Acosta remember him CNN start. he just made the best case for the wall yet.. ""Here are some of the steel slats that the president's been talking about," Acosta said while reporting in Texas and touching a wall slat. "But as we're walking along here, we're not seeing any kind of imminent danger.""

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-jr-acosta-for-twitter-gaffe


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## Chiefster23

I said before that we needed a minefield. Take all the old mines in storage from all over the country and plant em at the border. Install many warning signs in multiple languages. If anyone is dumb enough to try crossing, and gets blasted, oh well. You can’t fix stupid.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I am well aware of the numbers of people here that disagree with me in saying that that wall idea is the wrong solution. I recall working with the late Lt. Col. Gordon "Jack" Mohr (U.S. Army.) Mohr was the first American captured in the Korean Conflict. He was beaten, tortured, and sentenced to death. He managed to escape and go back to fighting. He also wrote Army manuals on psychopolitics and brainwashing.
> 
> Anyway, Mohr was speaking to conservative group when I was a kid. I was in awe of his story and began contacting him. Before long he would ask me to ghost write articles for him. Imagine my reaction to being asked to help a man of his stature.
> 
> Most of the stories I did were based upon Soviet helicopters and Cubans running training missions and crossing over into Brownsville, Texas. We also covered the same stories about how many undocumented foreigners were coming into the United States. The first ghosted articles I worked on were published in Newswatch Magazine back in 1986. They were about the Cubans training those south of our border for an invasion. IIRC the numbers of trained terrorists was at least 10,000. Add to that, the INS (now BICE) estimates of people entering this country were the same as today. When, in 1991, we committed our forces to fight in Iraq all those trained terrorists and the invasion did not materialize. The hype never ended. Finally, in 2003 Bush commits *all* our forces to the Mideast. Still no invasion from south of the border. Adding insult to injury, there never has been an invasion from that area.
> 
> Instead, little by little, we lost America due to things we did to ourselves. We allowed our country to become the drug capital of the world and 22 percent of the world's prisoners are in American prisons. We lose 70,000 of our own people each year due to opioid overdoses. And, at the end of the day, the drug addicts are being *created* by parents, the government, doctors / mental health officials, and Big Pharma.
> 
> Our culture is being flushed down the drain by making nearly a million people become citizens and most of those from non-white countries that have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to hate, loathe and despise white people and this country in general. The birth rate for whites is zero while the fastest growing population is Hispanics. Whether you erroneously call them legal or "_illegal_," they are pushing the whites out. Adding insult to injury, it is those who have come to build their whole lives around the nutty wall that have helped pass laws to create more criminals and then push for background checks which never allows those people to rise above their past. It culminates with us having more people in prison than any nation on the planet, a disenfranchised class of people and roughly half of that demographic living off the government.
> 
> The wall is not going to work. Unlike other countries that have built walls, we are not at war like the Israelis. Americans are welcoming the people from south of the border here. And we cannot build a government big enough to save us from ourselves. We're not like China. In China roughly 92 percent of the Chinese are Han Chinese. If we even utter the idea of saving "_our culture_," the mixed multitude begins chanting how racist we are... no, wait a minute... If we get serious about what the wall idea was originally about, it's white people that want to score popularity points that are chanting the word racist.
> 
> We DON'T need a wall that a liberal administration can ignore and it become en eyesore with graffiti and people knocking it down with each new Democrat president. We need a permanent solution. You need kids off the drugs; we need prison reform that will require prisoners to get a GED and job skills in exchange for early release. We need to get people back to work. We need to cease this background check B.S. (except in relevant jobs) and not worry about the youthful indiscretion some kid did twenty years ago, but focus on the fact that they overcame that by getting an education, learned a skill and have been model citizens for a few years. You need welfare reform - a program that helps over-see welfarites and get them back into being productive citizens. We need to let employers hire the employee of their choice. Oh yeah, some of them will hire undocumented foreigners... then again, some companies will hire only the posterity of the founders and we begin to reclaim our culture by natural means. We need to insure that we can only dole out the privileges of citizens TO citizens. I could do all of that myself for a lot less than $5.7 Billion Dollars and much less in the yearly costs of maintaining and running the effort as compared to a wall - of which the enforcement *will* jeopardize your Liberty and nullify the Bill of Rights.


You make some really good points about our country and those points are undeniable. There are a lot of things that need to be changed, but nobody is talking about them and they won't talk about them.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> You make some really good points about our country and those points are undeniable. There are a lot of things that need to be changed, but nobody is talking about them and they won't talk about them.


The problem is we do need to start talking about them and if the politicians won't, there is nothing better than grass roots solutions to the problems.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> The problem is we do need to start talking about them and if the politicians won't, there is nothing better than grass roots solutions to the problems.


Grassroots solutions are just as unlikely as real solutions from the federal government.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Grassroots solutions are just as unlikely as real solutions from the federal government.


I read this some time back:

https://shift-magazine.net/2015/11/18/top-10-grassroots-movements-that-are-taking-on-the-world/

I think the push back from the left will challenge our traditional values and the prepper community should be looking beyond the wall - and if you are a real prepper, think about your plans should the wall fail to resolve anything as I predict and the assault on your Liberties threaten your very existence. There is going to be an equal and opposite reaction after the wall is completed. Trump's newest idea of increasing the number of visa holders who can gain citizenship only says when the left is deeply entrenched, the Constitution will be the cost.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I read this some time back:
> 
> https://shift-magazine.net/2015/11/18/top-10-grassroots-movements-that-are-taking-on-the-world/
> 
> I think the push back from the left will challenge our traditional values and the prepper community should be looking beyond the wall - and if you are a real prepper, think about your plans should the wall fail to resolve anything as I predict and the assault on your Liberties threaten your very existence. There is going to be an equal and opposite reaction after the wall is completed. Trump's newest idea of increasing the number of visa holders who can gain citizenship only says when the left is deeply entrenched, the Constitution will be the cost.


Our traditional values will be challenged? They have already been challenged and are being replaced. That is exactly why I say there'll be no effective grassroots movement.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> Our traditional values will be challenged? They have already been challenged and are being replaced. That is exactly why I say there'll be no effective grassroots movement.


Sadly this is true. Saw where they are removing another plaque - this time in Texas because it's "_racist_." What a joke! We should have rebelled when the community organizer took office; should have rejected the bump stock ban. OTOH, even police in New Jersey are not turning in their high cap mags. So, when that round up begins, we'll see how far gun owners are willing to go to say no to government over-reach.


----------



## RedLion

Trump is right again and he/we are getting the wall. Pelosi obviously setting the stage to allow the 60 dems that were elected this past election on the promise to support a wall, to vote for wall funding. This while she will continue to voice some nonsensical garbage that she will not support wall funding.



> House Speaker Nancy Pelosi starts shifting the semantic granules to avoid a political loss. The financing for, and construction of, a see-through fencing system (Trump's position) is the request of DHS and Border Patrol, and supported by the vast majority of Americans.
> 
> Today, Speaker Pelosi starts by claiming no wall will ever be permitted, then garbles her way through a pretzel response by saying "Normandy Barriers" being replaced by "Normandy See-Through Fencing", is ok. She's trying to avoid a political loss.


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/01/31/nancy-pelosi-replacing-normandy-barriers-with-normandy-fencing-is-ok-not-a-wall/


----------



## Illini Warrior

over 12,000 now headed north >>>>> 2 more caravans northbound - more troops to the border for security reinforcing ....

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...igrant-caravans-headed-to-u-s-one-with-12000/


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## Illini Warrior

3rd convicted child molester nabbed this week crossing the border >>>> How many got thru?????

https://www.breitbart.com/border/20...ing-kidnapper-arrested-after-re-entering-u-s/


----------



## Sasquatch

RedLion said:


> Trump is right again and he/we are getting the wall. Pelosi obviously setting the stage to allow the 60 dems that were elected this past election on the promise to support a wall, to vote for wall funding. This while she will continue to voice some nonsensical garbage that she will not support wall funding.
> 
> https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/01/31/nancy-pelosi-replacing-normandy-barriers-with-normandy-fencing-is-ok-not-a-wall/


I hate to quote John McCain but "I dont care if you call it a banana". Build the damn wall.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Smitty901

Just tell the DNC that the wall is not to keep people out. It is to keep rich people that want to flee with their money in. They will build it in record time.


----------



## Prepared One

Sasquatch said:


> I hate to quote John McCain but "I dont care if you call it a banana". Build the damn wall.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Everyone is hung up on a "WALL" as if we are attempting to build a 2000 mile long 20 foot high wall. How about we call it "Enforced Border Security" and then actually enforce it.

Obviously it will not be a continuous wall. It's more comprehensive then that and the freakin socialist know it. Yes, It will include fencing, walls, or slates if you prefer, but also border patrol, electronic monitoring, drones, helicopters, etc. It also means cutting off the instant access to free shit, medical, food, housing, education, and anchor baby status, once they step foot in our country.

We need to address the laws that need changing and enforce the ones already on the books. The immigration system as a whole needs to be reformed. It's a system, of barriers, laws, and new legislation, that in the end must be enforced! Enforced by the executive branch. Otherwise, it's only just so much money being tossed down the drain.


----------



## MikeTango

Prepared One said:


> Everyone is hung up on a "WALL" as if we are attempting to build a 2000 mile long 20 foot high wall. How about we call it "Enforced Border Security" and then actually enforce it.
> 
> Obviously it will not be a continuous wall. It's more comprehensive then that and the freakin socialist know it. Yes, It will include fencing, walls, or slates if you prefer, but also border patrol, electronic monitoring, drones, helicopters, etc. It also means cutting off the instant access to free shit, medical, food, housing, education, and anchor baby status, once they step foot in our country.
> 
> We need to address the laws that need changing and enforce the ones already on the books. The immigration system as a whole needs to be reformed. It's a system, of barriers, laws, and new legislation, that in the end must be enforced! Enforced by the executive branch. Otherwise, it's only just so much money being tossed down the drain.


"Strategic Barriers"... Although, the "Great Wall of America", spanning sea to shining sea, is probably what we need. But you're right, it's nothing without enforcement.

Honestly, it's just not going to matter in the long run. A lefty will make it back in the WH one day and systematically destroy everything this administration has accomplished.

The chances this all ends in civil war increases with each passing day. Not seeing a way around it...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Smitty901

Prepared One said:


> Everyone is hung up on a "WALL" as if we are attempting to build a 2000 mile long 20 foot high wall. How about we call it "Enforced Border Security" and then actually enforce it.
> 
> Obviously it will not be a continuous wall. It's more comprehensive then that and the freakin socialist know it. Yes, It will include fencing, walls, or slates if you prefer, but also border patrol, electronic monitoring, drones, helicopters, etc. It also means cutting off the instant access to free shit, medical, food, housing, education, and anchor baby status, once they step foot in our country.
> 
> We need to address the laws that need changing and enforce the ones already on the books. The immigration system as a whole needs to be reformed. It's a system, of barriers, laws, and new legislation, that in the end must be enforced! Enforced by the executive branch. Otherwise, it's only just so much money being tossed down the drain.


 Democrats will not ever support enforcing border security. Those crossing the boarder are there power base. They have been losing some of the black base they need more replacements. Listen to them.


----------



## Prepared One

Smitty901 said:


> Democrats will not ever support enforcing border security. Those crossing the boarder are there power base. They have been losing some of the black base they need more replacements. Listen to them.


Understood Smitty. The DNC has stated on numerous occasions that illegal immigration is the democrats ( AKA Socialists ) future. It's been their platform for years and is now starting to pay off. See AOC, Rashida Harbi Tlaib, Ilhan Abdullahi Omar.


----------



## Sasquatch

Prepared One said:


> Everyone is hung up on a "WALL" as if we are attempting to build a 2000 mile long 20 foot high wall. How about we call it "Enforced Border Security" and then actually enforce it.
> 
> Obviously it will not be a continuous wall. It's more comprehensive then that and the freakin socialist know it. Yes, It will include fencing, walls, or slates if you prefer, but also border patrol, electronic monitoring, drones, helicopters, etc. It also means cutting off the instant access to free shit, medical, food, housing, education, and anchor baby status, once they step foot in our country.
> 
> We need to address the laws that need changing and enforce the ones already on the books. The immigration system as a whole needs to be reformed. It's a system, of barriers, laws, and new legislation, that in the end must be enforced! Enforced by the executive branch. Otherwise, it's only just so much money being tossed down the drain.


How about this for a compromise? No border wall. BUT we write a law that says: Cross into our country illegally (for any reason) you will be arrested. Then immediately deported. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Immediately deported. And not just criminals. Anyone! Mom's, kids, one legged hookers, they all go. No holding, no court date, simply put onto a cargo plane and dropped off on the other side of Mexico. Democrats want compromise, I'd say that's compromise!


----------



## Prepared One

Sasquatch said:


> How about this for a compromise? No border wall. BUT we write a law that says: Cross into our country illegally (for any reason) you will be arrested. Then immediately deported. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Immediately deported. And not just criminals. Anyone! Mom's, kids, one legged hookers, they all go. No holding, no court date, simply put onto a cargo plane and dropped off on the other side of Mexico. Democrats want compromise, I'd say that's compromise!


I like it! But, can we maybe negotiate the one legged hookers? :devil:


----------



## Smitty901

Sasquatch said:


> How about this for a compromise? No border wall. BUT we write a law that says: Cross into our country illegally (for any reason) you will be arrested. Then immediately deported. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Immediately deported. And not just criminals. Anyone! Mom's, kids, one legged hookers, they all go. No holding, no court date, simply put onto a cargo plane and dropped off on the other side of Mexico. Democrats want compromise, I'd say that's compromise!


 The problem is once arrested once here they get a Judge. that is their goal get here anyway they can the scream for a lawyer.


----------



## The Resister

Sasquatch said:


> How about this for a compromise? No border wall. BUT we write a law that says: Cross into our country illegally (for any reason) you will be arrested. Then immediately deported. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Immediately deported. And not just criminals. Anyone! Mom's, kids, one legged hookers, they all go. No holding, no court date, simply put onto a cargo plane and dropped off on the other side of Mexico. Democrats want compromise, I'd say that's compromise!


I just want to ask you one question. Please do not take it personal. It will require a follow up or two, but can you tell me where you get your unalienable Rights from? Of course, I'm presuming that you believe in them. If not, I understand.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I just want to ask you one question. Please do not take it personal. It will require a follow up or two, but can you tell me where you get your unalienable Rights from? Of course, I'm presuming that you believe in them. If not, I understand.


I know where you are going with this.

The elements of a nation are its people who are bound together by a common culture, its place on the earth defined by its geographical borders and its governing body. A nation has the right to defend all three of its elements. A nation not only has that right, it has a duty to do so.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> I know where you are going with this.
> 
> The elements of a nation are its people who are bound together by a common culture, its place on the earth defined by its geographical borders and its governing body. A nation has the right to defend all three of its elements. A nation not only has that right, it has a duty to do so.


I doubt anyone knows where I'm going with it, Denton. Far too many times people are trying to predict the direction based solely on their own prejudices that the immigration debacle is left v. right; Democrat v. Republican; conservative v. liberal.

We definitely have a right and a duty to protect our border. However, the reality of our situation is that those who advocate the wall cannot tell whether they are trying to solve a military (National Security issue) OR enforce domestic laws. Those who want a wall advocate that without one, we cannot have any national sovereignty. Admittedly, I believe that only God is sovereign. However, if we need a physical wall before we can be a country, how is it that we built the greatest nation in the recorded history of mankind without one? OR was I taught a lie? Are we just another third world cesspool and all I was taught about our national heroes a lie?

You say that in order to have a country, we should be bound together by a common culture. What, exactly, would that culture be? The current House of Representatives IS indeed a representative example of the people in the United States. We have Muslims, the LGBQT community, Jews, atheists, communists, socialists, Hispanics, Asians, Pacific Island Americans, blacks, at least one Korean, one Vietnamese, liberals, conservatives, left, right, self hating whites, etc., etc. It looks like a group of third worlders at a Halloween party. There is one observation that I won't hesitate to make:

EVERY civilization that has failed and went the way of the history books was preceded by an amalgamation of the different races, religions, sexual persuasions, political and social viewpoints. I live in the past. My America was a constitutional Republic based upon Christian principles, limited government, *unalienable* Rights, and a people that knew the difference between citizenship and people who do business within a country without becoming a part of the body politic. Like it or not and believe it or not, America was founded by white people who were predominantly white and Christian. Unfortunately, my America no longer exists. Furthermore, it cannot be all things to all people.

America today rejects Liberty and Freedom. They spit on private property Rights - refuse to even consider them. Christian values are denigrated and ridiculed. Our history is being erased right before our very eyes. Our people, the posterity of the founders have become the sorriest sons of bitches ever to walk the face of the earth. They have become drug addicts, drunks, amoral, self centered, egotistical, and apathetic. Half of them are too lazy to work so they live off mommy and daddy and / or Uncle Scam. Today, while I'm complaining about it, millions will be spending thousands of dollars each to watch a few guys chase a ball. They'll think nothing about spending $100 on refreshments for a couple of hours of entertainment, but would raise holy Hell if someone suggested that they put a $20 bill in the church collection plate. The movies being produced in this country are political propaganda full of subtle acts of subliminal conditioning in order to instill a guilt complex on the posterity of the founders to ever want a nation of their own while, at the same time, attacking that culture we had in the past of which I wrote of here. The "_music_" you hear today is debilitating noise that is antithetical to the values that made us a great nation. What culture, exactly, are we going to try and protect?

So we need a wall built to protect some culture doomed to extinction in a non-existent nation that lied its way through the history books because we never had any national sovereignty, culture or a legitimate country for lack of a wall? I would submit to you that if you begin retracing the political maneuvers, strategies, and policies the United States has taken on this issue since the ratification of the 14th Amendment, it should become crystal clear: big government is the culprit in the destruction of our Republic. We cannot build a government big enough to save us from ourselves. Most of what is wrong with America is not the fault of foreigners. What's wrong with America was done to it by the posterity of the founders. Until we go back to the beginning and put everything back into perspective, no wall will save us; no politician can deliver us out of evil; a bigger government will enslave us - and we will have done it to ourselves.

You want to know where I'm going? Let's start at the beginning. From where do YOU get YOUR *unalienable* Rights from? Don't try to predict the future direction of the conversation as I sure as Hell don't know all the answers. I'd like to ask the questions once and see if we can figure out where we really took that wrong turn.


----------



## The Tourist

*@The Resister*, while I agree with 95% of what you wrote, I am also a Christian. I do believe in self defense, but I do see the wisdom in, _"all the power in the world comes from the barrel of a gun."_ This course stems from the fact that the opposing party in my country is determined to strip us of all rights, even the "inalienable" ones.

BTW, that was a very good post. Clear, concise and under control. I liked it very much.


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## Slippy

I bet if the United States eliminated all welfare, many from shithole countries wouldn't attempt to come here for the freebies. 

Also, many lazy ass citizens who fall into the category of "government teat suckers" would have to work, eliminating a need (not entirely but some) for migrant labor. 

It wouldn't stop all from attempting, but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.


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## StratMaster

Slippy said:


> I bet if the United States eliminated all welfare, many from shithole countries wouldn't attempt to come here for the freebies.
> 
> Also, many lazy ass citizens who fall into the category of "government teat suckers" would have to work, eliminating a need (not entirely but some) for migrant labor.
> 
> It wouldn't stop all from attempting, but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.


A HUGE step. Meanwhile, those that actually produce have more capital in their pocket to invest (rather than being taxed to death to support social programs) further stimulating the economy.


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## Denton

@The Resister - To answer the rhetorical question that you demand to be answered: _We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness._

Yes, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of the true state of the union, but allowing those from other cultures to flood over our border will do nothing but hasten the demise of this nation. Especially people from other parts of the world who wish to destroy our form of governance and replace it with their own. Of course, it might well be too late to stop them as they already have people in the U.S. House of Representatives.


----------



## Traxxas

> We definitely have a right and a duty to protect our border.


 We agree



> However, the reality of our situation is that those who advocate the wall cannot tell whether they are trying to solve a military (National Security issue) OR enforce domestic laws.


Those that advocate a wall do so knowingly that we are being invaded by people that have no legal right to enter our country. The US Military can be used to place obstacles/barriers along our border, while our laws can be used to remove people that Enter illegally, as recognized by every country on the planet.



> Those who want a wall advocate that without one, we cannot have any national sovereignty.


Nobody that advocates for a wall has ever stated we do not have a sovereign nation without a wall, this is you writing a narrative to suit your argument. A wall helps protect our sovereignty by reducing illegal entry, anywhere a wall has been put in place, illegal entry has been reduced by 90% - 97% in that area.



> Admittedly, I believe that only God is sovereign.


God has nothing to do with the US placing a wall along its border.



> However, if we need a physical wall before we can be a country, how is it that we built the greatest nation in the recorded history of mankind without one?


We have always had some type of obstruction to entry, from 1606 through today. Nobody has stated we need a wall to be a country, another of your strawman claims. Good fences make good neighbors.



> OR was I taught a lie?


Who knows what you were taught, but what is obvious is you misconstrue history to suit your narrative.



> Are we just another third world cesspool and all I was taught about our national heroes a lie?


Who are our National Heroes? If you are referring to the founders and their writing of the Declaration of Independence, why is it you always leave out the context of the phrase you quote? I see the following when quoting the DoI


> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - *That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed*,


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> @The Resister - To answer the rhetorical question that you demand to be answered: _We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness._
> 
> Yes, you are absolutely correct in your assessment of the true state of the union, but allowing those from other cultures to flood over our border will do nothing but hasten the demise of this nation. Especially people from other parts of the world who wish to destroy our form of governance and replace it with their own. Of course, it might well be too late to stop them as they already have people in the U.S. House of Representatives.


Denton, you think you know me, but you do not. We *never* progress with this discussion. It's a complicated process and most of the people have been programmed, Pavlovian style, to reject ideas that are new to them. Think about this:

*WHY YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE*

You tend to believe most strongly that which you hear first

If you change, it will be most likely to that which you hear repeated many times

You tend to believe that which you WANT to believe or that which fits your preconceived ideas or notions

Last, humans are least likely to believe that which is logical and makes sense... ESPECIALLY if it contradicts that which they hear most

Although you quote the Declaration of Independence, there is much more to it than meets the eye. The Declaration of Independence acknowledges a Creator. This Creator (God, whomever we deem that to be) bestows upon man *unalienable* Rights. I bold that word because not 1 person in every 1000 knows what it means. SOME of the many synonyms are God given, inherent, natural, irrevocable, absolute, etc. You did not give any person their Rights, neither did - not did the government. A person is born with them. Those who advocate for the wall get mad at me, accuse me of wanting to "_open the borders to a flood tide of foreigners_." They will tell you this is about sovereignty or any other pretext they can manufacture.

The one thing that has not been done is to step away from the incessant argument; remove yourself from the rhetoric; quit spouting the talking points of which side you're on. As of this date, nobody has been able to tell me that if our borders are defined only by a wall, then how did our forefathers create the greatest nation in the annals of history? OR did they? Have I been living a lie my whole life? But, on the other hand, how were they handling this issue of immigration so that we were not flooded by immigrants? You can't say we weren't threatened.

Back in 1750 Benjamin Franklin was concerned that a massive influx of Germans were pouring in and that Pennsylvania "_will in a few Years become a German Colony. Instead of their Learning our Language, we must learn their's, or live as in a foreign country_."

Without a wall; without a POLICE STATE; without the forfeiture of Liberties; without imposing on the *unalienable* Rights of others America found a solution. As the Bible says in Ecclesiastes 1 : 9:

"_The thing that has been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun_."

The thing for me is that we've never had a discussion on this issue. We've had a pissing match. We've had a constant pissing match because the wall idea was the left's idea BEFORE it was Trump's. He has admitted that and commented on more than once. The reason there has never been a counter-argument to the wall is due to the fact that the left wants it too. They cannot make a counter argument against it. They are simply conning the Republicans to do their dirty work and then, the Dems benefit off it. That is not the first time they've pulled that off. The best the left can do is to show the world how intolerant, hateful, and bigoted the right is and the people who want the wall walk right into the trap. The leftists are exploiting the programmed reactions,taking advantage of the posterity of the founders.

If we could get people to sit at the table and discuss the issue, it would become apparent you don't need a wall and there is a way to look at the issue for what it is and apply the right solution. Best of all, there will be no flood tide of foreigners.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Denton, you think you know me, but you do not. We *never* progress with this discussion...
> 
> Uh, we have had this very discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You tend to believe that which you WANT to believe or that which fits your preconceived ideas or notions.
> 
> 
> 
> You think you know me, but you do not.
> 
> I'll assume that when you used the word _you_, you were meaning to use the word, _one_.
> 
> Look at that post from which I extracted a couple of quotes. _Bloviation _comes to my mind. I gave a very simple answer to your rhetorical question and you decided to step behind the podium and begin lecturing me on the basics. Condescend much?
> 
> You'd do well to stop talking down to people and simply offer your solution.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sasquatch

The Resister said:


> I just want to ask you one question. Please do not take it personal. It will require a follow up or two, but can you tell me where you get your unalienable Rights from? Of course, I'm presuming that you believe in them. If not, I understand.


Mine were bestowed upon me from Odin himself.


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> The Resister said:
> 
> 
> 
> Denton, you think you know me, but you do not. We *never* progress with this discussion...
> 
> Uh, we have had this very discussion.
> 
> You think you know me, but you do not.
> 
> I'll assume that when you used the word _you_, you were meaning to use the word, _one_.
> 
> Look at that post from which I extracted a couple of quotes. _Bloviation _comes to my mind. I gave a very simple answer to your rhetorical question and you decided to step behind the podium and begin lecturing me on the basics. Condescend much?
> 
> You'd do well to stop talking down to people and simply offer your solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Do people like you have a mental block? You get defensive about every little statement. Listening to people like you is like listening to a bunch of 80 year old hens in an old folks home. Any time someone puts a new idea on the table, you start that silly B.S. Get a life Denton. Nobody's on a freaking podium. This is a damn discussion board and I'll be a son of a bitch if I walk on egg shells in fear of offending you.
> 
> Nobody is trying to be condescending. If it were, it would have been you. You're not giving me any opportunity to discuss. What is it you want? An echo chamber? It's a discussion. Nobody's putting you down. You were just trying to act as if we've been down that road before - when we've NEVER been down the road I'm going down on this thread. There is no need to be a snowflake. It's just a freaking discussion.
Click to expand...


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## hawgrider

The Resister said:


> Do people like you have a mental block? You get defensive about every little statement. Listening to people like you is like listening to a bunch of 80 year old hens in an old folks home. Any time someone puts a new idea on the table, you start that silly B.S. Get a life Denton. Nobody's on a freaking podium. This is a damn discussion board and I'll be a son of a bitch if I walk on egg shells in fear of offending you.


Just thought I would point out for grins and giggles-

#2 -"Ideas and opinions may be challenged, but name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned. *Trolling behavior is not allowed on PrepperForums.net*."

#3- "* Do not question or debate a moderator decision publicly on the message board.* In the event of a disagreement or questioning of a moderator's decision or action users should contact the moderator(s) or admin(s) via PM."

@Denton


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## The Resister

Sasquatch said:


> Mine were bestowed upon me from Odin himself.


If you believe Odin to be your God, I can respect that. Either way, Liberty is a gift from the Creator. When people begin trying to come up with ways to negotiate the Liberty of another, anarchy follows. But I digress.

Dred Scott sued in the federal courts and the United States Supreme Court ruled that Scott could not become (nor ever was) a citizen of the United States. Despite that ruling, Scott remained* IN* the United States and worked in the private sector without becoming a citizen. He died before the 14th Amendment was ratified. In the United States Constitution, the federal government is limited to a very small and distinct role in dealing with foreigners. It is as follows:

"_The Congress shall have power to ...establish a uniform rule of naturalization_"

That's it. Do we have a Right to protect our borders? Of course we do. However, unless you are going to have Congress issue a Declaration of War OR you're going to have Trump declare a national emergency in order to justify his presence on the border, the feds are clearly out of their jurisdiction. If we are to be a nation of laws, then *WE* must respect the Rule of Law if we expect others to do so. The Tenth Amendment provides:

"_The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people_."

Can you show me, in the Constitution, where Congress has the authority to tell a state who they may and may not invite into their state? I'm not talking opinions, just facts. Let's move forward from that.

It's *my opinion* that the caravans were / are a political ploy by both the left and the right to make it appear that we need federal intervention. I have not taken the time to research it, but the numbers of improper entries are dwindling, making it problematic for Trump to make a case for a national emergency. IF it turns out that Congress or the courts have some recourse, they may exercise it and force Trump to go back to having that equivalent of a professional wrestling match with Nancy Pelosi. Trump will begin to blackmail Pelosi by again shutting down the government. The people will become weary and submit to whatever it takes to get the issue resolved and go back to work.

So, in this post, I'm asking that you think about *jurisdiction*. The _powers that be_ are hoodwinking the people. Their goal here is not to do anything about foreigners. They're going to lose in that final battle as they have no real authority to do what they're doing. We're merely being set up so that America can be ruled by *Executive fiat*. Those on the right are being led down the road to Hell without even questioning why they're doing it and how they can preserve Liberty AND keep America from being flooded with foreigners. If you could understand the end game, the solutions begin to make sense. But we'll have to address it one issue at a time. But, in any case, try to fix this in your mind: Naturalization = citizenship. Citizenship is a privilege; an opportunity to become a part of the body politic. Every foreigner worker in this country is not obligated nor do they need to become citizens. Liberty is an *unalienable *Right. If you can show me where an enemy exists that is trying to conquer America with a force of arms, I will load up, pack my gear, and meet you on the border in the time it takes for me to drive there. If not, I'm going to ask that you hear me out.


----------



## The Resister

hawgrider said:


> Just thought I would point out for grins and giggles-
> 
> #2 -"Ideas and opinions may be challenged, but name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned. *Trolling behavior is not allowed on PrepperForums.net*."
> 
> #3- "* Do not question or debate a moderator decision publicly on the message board.* In the event of a disagreement or questioning of a moderator's decision or action users should contact the moderator(s) or admin(s) via PM."
> 
> @Denton


I'm not challenging Denton in his role as a moderator. How many referees did you see playing on either team this football season? If Denton, or any other moderator, becomes a part of the discussion and then use it to censor the posters, then you pretty much have a situation that prepares people to accept a dictatorship. I'm having a discussion. For whatever reason Denton takes everything personal and then berates me when I get defensive when people do it to me. So, as a poster, you cannot take it personal and use the rules to force people to see everything your way. Well... you could, but that would then say more about us than I can say in a thousand paragraphs.

Sir, look closely. I do not make personal attacks. I respond to people in the same spirit that they engage me with. A question rather than an assumption about what I said would have made this side argument about twenty paragraphs fewer. So, are we going to have a dick measuring contest or a real discussion?

For you, I fear that might be rhetorical.


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## The Tourist

It's too early in the morning to start this again.

Flat out, Denton has his own opinions and a very difficult job to do. I think he bends over backwards to to both offer a cogent opinion and protect the forum. You couldn't pay me enough to do this, as I can come and go if the fighting gets too intense, or I do not like like the trend of the thread.

Here's the point I'm driving at. In this thread we have one or two posts on a topic, then numerous posts on decorum. Why don't we just stick to debating the OP, and cleanse our posts of unproductive vitriol. If nothing else, we save the forum's bandwidth.


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## Traxxas

> Dred Scott sued in the federal courts and the United States Supreme Court ruled that Scott could not become (nor ever was) a citizen of the United States. Despite that ruling, Scott remained IN the United States and worked in the private sector without becoming a citizen. He died before the 14th Amendment was ratified. In the United States Constitution, the federal government is limited to a very small and distinct role in dealing with foreigners.


Why not use Chy Lung V Freeman here, since you like to use it in your claims?


> we venture the assertion, that, if citizens of our own government were treated by any foreign nation as subjects of the Emperor of China have been actually treated under this law, no administration could withstand the call for a demand on such government for redress.
> 
> Or if this plaintiff and her twenty companions had been subjects of the Queen of Great Britain, can anyone doubt that this matter would have been the subject of international inquiry, if not of a direct claim for redress? Upon whom would such a claim be made? *Not upon the State of California, for, by our Constitution, she can hold no exterior relations with other nations.* It would be made upon the government of the United States. If that government should get into a difficulty which would lead to war or to suspension of intercourse, would California alone suffer, or all the Union? If we should conclude that a pecuniary indemnity was proper as a satisfaction for the
> 
> Page 92 U. S. 280
> 
> injury, would California pay it, or the federal government? If that government has forbidden the states to hold negotiations with any foreign nations or to declare war and has taken the whole subject of these relations upon herself, has the Constitution, which provides for this, done so foolish a thing as to leave it in the power of the states to pass laws whose enforcement renders the general government liable to just reclamations which it must answer, while it does not prohibit to the states the acts for which it is held responsible?
> 
> The Constitution of the United States is no such instrument. The passage of laws which concern the admission of citizens and subjects of foreign nations to our shores belongs to Congress, and not to the states. It has the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations; the responsibility for the character of those regulations and for the manner of their execution belongs solely to the national government. If it be otherwise, a single state can at her pleasure embroil us in disastrous quarrels with other nations.


As to you trying to use Dred Scott, whom was born here a slave and his ancestors were brought here as slaves against their will, it has no bearing on illegal immigrants entering the US without inspection.


----------



## The Resister

The Tourist said:


> It's too early in the morning to start this again.
> 
> Flat out, Denton has his own opinions and a very difficult job to do. I think he bends over backwards to to both offer a cogent opinion and protect the forum. You couldn't pay me enough to do this, as I can come and go if the fighting gets too intense, or I do not like like the trend of the thread.
> 
> Here's the point I'm driving at. In this thread we have one or two posts on a topic, then numerous posts on decorum. Why don't we just stick to debating the OP, and cleanse our posts of unproductive vitriol. If nothing else, we save the forum's bandwidth.


Yawn.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> Denton said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do people like you have a mental block? You get defensive about every little statement. Listening to people like you is like listening to a bunch of 80 year old hens in an old folks home. Any time someone puts a new idea on the table, you start that silly B.S. Get a life Denton. Nobody's on a freaking podium. This is a damn discussion board and I'll be a son of a bitch if I walk on egg shells in fear of offending you.
> 
> Nobody is trying to be condescending. If it were, it would have been you. You're not giving me any opportunity to discuss. What is it you want? An echo chamber? It's a discussion. Nobody's putting you down. You were just trying to act as if we've been down that road before - when we've NEVER been down the road I'm going down on this thread. There is no need to be a snowflake. It's just a freaking discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> You simply can't help yourself, can you? How many insults did you just hurl? If I were to respond in kind, you'd start screaming "I'm a victim! I'm a victim!" Do you think I or anyone on this board needs you to elaborate on the word, _unalienable_? Here's a word you might want to research - pontificate. Here; I'll help you: _Express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic._
> 
> You say we have not been down this road before? Sure, we have. You made it clear you didn't care about the laws of nations.
> 
> Now, if you have the time to do it instead of bloviating (you can look up that one for yourself), tell us your solution for keeping drug traffickers, child traffickers and Hezbollah from illegally crossing our borders.
Click to expand...


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> Yawn.


There you go again, trying to belittle another member. Still, you are the poor victim who never insults another member.

You simply can't help yourself.


----------



## The Resister

I think it's time for a discussion about immigration, so pardon me for not responding to off topic posts.

Make no mistake. We definitely have an immigration problem, but we have an even bigger problem. We have people that are obsessed with their causes (immigration being the major one) to the point that they will ignore the rule of law and put their Rights and everybody else's at risk. Some excuses can range from national sovereignty to taxes to the fear of flooding America with so - called _"illegal aliens_."

Hear this and hear it well. The _"legal_" variety of foreigners are predominantly Democrats and they have been programmed to hate the white people along with they system of jurisprudence; America's history; the fundamental principles upon which this country was built AND the Constitution. Fear and ignorance are driving those obsessed with the wall to aid in their own destruction.

"_As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights_." James Madison

The federal government has *NO* jurisdiction over Liberty. I see the suggestions of penalizing people for interacting with foreigners - i.e. like penalizing employers who hire undocumented foreigners. I have to scratch my head because those who want the wall refuse to discuss HOW they arrive at the conclusion that foreigners are "_stealing our jobs_" when the job belongs to the employer. In order to enforce the wall idea, we must attack the* property Rights* of the citizenry.

Again, the left will not make the arguments regarding property Rights as they have as much at stake in this wall idea as those of obsess over the wall do. If we are going to propose to penalize employers for hiring undocumented foreigners, how come we don't arrest people who shop at Walmart? Walmart was convicted of *knowingly* hiring subcontractors that used undocumented laborers. So, if I follow this argument that foreigners are "_stealing our jobs_," how come you suppose that no American has been arrested for conversion, or receiving stolen property? After all, if undocumented foreigners steal jobs and you shop at the places that employ them AND you save money, the money you saved belonged to the American worker Walmart didn't hire. Since you benefit off such a transaction, you are receiving stolen property.

Moving right along, since the federal government has no jurisdiction in who comes and goes within a state (only jurisdiction to naturalize) then you are inviting the federal government to expand *eminent domain abuse*. When half of the American people are willingly inviting foreigners to come here (by virtue of the fact they willingly do business with them) the federal government has no jurisdiction to put up a wall in *any* state. It is up to each state to decide if they want a wall and how they should pay for it. Building a wall carries costs beyond dollars and cents. The taking of personal property (be it real estate or jobs) cannot be lightly dismissed. I'm not saying I agree with what actions others take; we even have counter-measures to employ. But, when at least half of the people in the United States disagree with those obsessed with the wall, you have to look at the long road ahead. Will your solutions cause you problems down the road? Suppose I could show where that was exactly the case. IF I did, would you then be open to discussing the principles of law that are being used to get you to agree to slavery, tyranny and oppression?


----------



## The Resister

Denton said:


> There you go again, trying to belittle another member. Still, you are the poor victim who never insults another member.
> 
> You simply can't help yourself.


I've insulted nobody. Name them. You mean the person who attacked me with an off topic post that had *NOTHING* to do with the OP? No, Denton, I have not insulted anyone; not gotten into pissing contests; not belittled anyone; not said anything negative to anyone - except to yawn at the boredom of those who want to engage in a pissing match. I refuse to engage. The topic is about a freaking wall. Do you pack the gear between your ears to talk about a wall? If not, don't make this about me. It isn't and I will be damned if I play along with it. I challenge every one of you here to stick to the topic.


----------



## Denton

The Resister said:


> I've insulted nobody. Name them. You mean the person who attacked me with an off topic post that had *NOTHING* to do with the OP? No, Denton, I have not insulted anyone; not gotten into pissing contests; not belittled anyone; not said anything negative to anyone - except to yawn at the boredom of those who want to engage in a pissing match. I refuse to engage. The topic is about a freaking wall. Do you pack the gear between your ears to talk about a wall? If not, don't make this about me. It isn't and I will be damned if I play along with it. I challenge every one of you here to stick to the topic.


Yup. You can't learn. You seem to even black out, not knowing when you insult or belittle others. You and I have had this conversation (the one about you and your tactics) on the forum as well as through PMs. Now, you pretend you haven't made every thread in which you are involved about you and you demand everyone do as you say.

Call me a snowflake one more time and see how I take it. That or any of the other things you said in that post. As a matter of fact, make any of those insinuations toward any of the members. As a matter of fact, simply "yawn" at someone again and see how I take it. 
I've wasted a lot of time with you and I'm not doing it, anymore. You've made yourself out to be a distraction, preferring to be that than to make concise, objective posts. Considering most have you on ignore and for the reasons I've told you many times, I'd think you'd learn instead of continuing to think everyone else has the problem and not you.

Now, if you can, carry on.


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## RedLion

Israel adding to their wall.....



> ISRAEL Proudly Releases Video of Construction of NEW BORDER BARRIER - What Pelosi Calls 'Immoral'


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/02/israel-proudly-releases-video-of-construction-of-new-border-barrier-what-pelosi-calls-immoral/


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## Denton

RedLion said:


> Israel adding to their wall.....
> 
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/02/israel-proudly-releases-video-of-construction-of-new-border-barrier-what-pelosi-calls-immoral/


Israel's border issue is much smaller in terms of length.


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## Denton

Border barriers are only a tool, and without enforcement, border barriers aren't worth a thing. Remember how CBP was basically told to not do its job during the Obama years?
What good is the wall or even border patrol when Kamala Harris or Corey Booker wins the Oval Office?


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> The Resister said:
> 
> 
> 
> You simply can't help yourself, can you? How many insults did you just hurl? If I were to respond in kind, you'd start screaming "I'm a victim! I'm a victim!" Do you think I or anyone on this board needs you to elaborate on the word, _unalienable_? Here's a word you might want to research - pontificate. Here; I'll help you: _Express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic._
> 
> You say we have not been down this road before? Sure, we have. You made it clear you didn't care about the laws of nations.
> 
> Now, if you have the time to do it instead of bloviating (you can look up that one for yourself), tell us your solution for keeping drug traffickers, child traffickers and Hezbollah from illegally crossing our borders.
> 
> 
> 
> I made it clear I don't care about the laws of nations? When did this spectacular event happen?
> 
> Be glad to give you the solutions if you could understand the constitutional parameters we have to work with - which is why I'm trying to lay out exactly what they are.
Click to expand...


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> Border barriers are only a tool, and without enforcement, border barriers aren't worth a thing. Remember how CBP was basically told to not do its job during the Obama years?
> What good is the wall or even border patrol when Kamala Harris or Corey Booker wins the Oval Office?


What good will a wall do you if you spend BILLIONS on it and Kamala Harris took office after Trump's second term only to let said wall become a place for graffiti artists? Why not spend your money on a permanent solution?


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> Denton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I made it clear I don't care about the laws of nations? When did this spectacular event happen?
> 
> Be glad to give you the solutions if you could understand the constitutional parameters we have to work with - which is why I'm trying to lay out exactly what they are.
> 
> 
> 
> The last time you set about to explain your position on illegal immigration. Months ago. Before Trump was elected.
Click to expand...


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> Israel's border issue is much smaller in terms of length.


Israel is dealing with an armed invasion whereby people are killing the Israelis. I'll tell you straight up. If someone comes across our border with the intent of an armed invasion, give me a call and I'll show up at the border, locked, cocked and ready to rock.

The U.S. has no such problem. Kamala Harris and her ilk are* inviting* the foreigners here with open arms. Big difference.


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## Denton

The Resister said:


> What good will a wall do you if you spend BILLIONS on it and Kamala Harris took office after Trump's second term only to let said wall become a place for graffiti artists? Why not spend your money on a permanent solution?


I believe that is what I said. 
As a matter of fact, what good is any of it when there are so many politicians who don't care about drug trafficking, view child trafficking as a means of supplying them and their elite friends with a "product," and view Hezbollow as a tool for a needed false flag?


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## The Resister

Denton said:


> The Resister said:
> 
> 
> 
> The last time you set about to explain your position on illegal immigration. Months ago. Before Trump was elected.
> 
> 
> 
> And people tried to derail the thread; those trying to derail it were allowed carte blanche to attempt to make the entire thread a personality contest. *Some* guys are here on a prepper site, but act more like liberals and even worse when their agenda gets challenged. When derailing threads don't work, they made attempts at veiled threats, name calling and IF I dared respond, I faced being censored.
> 
> The build the wall effort is an offshoot of David Duke's _"Border Watch_" program. For every advancement that the right has made toward their goal, I'll give you FIFTEEN failures that they have had. Many times their "_advancements_" came at the expense of our Liberty. The American citizenry has been victimized ten times more than the foreigners have been punished - and punished for opportunities willingly offered.
Click to expand...


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## Denton

There you go again, throwing insults at members. This time you cast a net instead of a line. Not smart at all. 
You wasted your time rather than getting across a point. Too bad.


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## Denton

Thread closed until I get home to my laptop where I have access to a few buttons I need. 
The thread will then be reopened.


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## Denton

OK. Problem solved.


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## A Watchman

The Resister said:


> What good will a wall do you if you spend BILLIONS on it and Kamala Harris took office after Trump's second term only to let said wall become a place for graffiti artists? Why not spend your money on a permanent solution?


Again, its this permanent solution of yours, that you never fully expound upon.


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## Denton

The Mexican government is sending nearly two thousand immigrants to an unsecured spot on our border.

https://www.breitbart.com/border/20...avan-migrants-to-unsecured-texas-border-area/


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## Traxxas

> Make no mistake. We definitely have an immigration problem, but we have an even bigger problem. We have people that are obsessed with their causes (immigration being the major one) to the point that they will ignore the rule of law and put their Rights and everybody else's at risk.


What rule of law is being ignored and what rights are put at risk?



> Hear this and hear it well. The "legal" variety of foreigners are predominantly Democrats and they have been programmed to hate the white people along with they system of jurisprudence; America's history; the fundamental principles upon which this country was built AND the Constitution. Fear and ignorance are driving those obsessed with the wall to aid in their own destruction.


Little too much projection in your claims, as most legal immigrants that become citizens are pretty much split on party choice. None have been programmed to hate "white people" nor our system of "jurisprudence"; American History (most know American History better than most citizens already); or the US Constitution. So fear and ignorance is wanting a person to enter the country legally instead of illegally? Wanting a person to be screened for health issues and or a back ground check is fear and ignorance?



> The federal government has NO jurisdiction over Liberty. I see the suggestions of penalizing people for interacting with foreigners - i.e. like penalizing employers who hire undocumented foreigners. I have to scratch my head because those who want the wall refuse to discuss HOW they arrive at the conclusion that foreigners are "stealing our jobs" when the job belongs to the employer. In order to enforce the wall idea, we must attack the property Rights of the citizenry.


Immigration doesn't effect your liberty, nor that of any other citizens liberty. You can interact with whom you choose, yet you and they need to be in compliance with the laws of the land. The employer created the job and owns the job, yet the employer is bound by the laws of society in which he was granted the ability to start a business and must comply with those laws for his protection and for the protection of the employee(s) he may hire. You have a right to own property, and with eminent domain it can be bought by the government at fair market value. A Citizens rights are not being attacked, as the person where eminent domain my be used can fight it in court if they so desire.



> If we are going to propose to penalize employers for hiring undocumented foreigners, how come we don't arrest people who shop at Walmart? Walmart was convicted of knowingly hiring subcontractors that used undocumented laborers. So, if I follow this argument that foreigners are "stealing our jobs," how come you suppose that no American has been arrested for conversion, or receiving stolen property? After all, if undocumented foreigners steal jobs and you shop at the places that employ them AND you save money, the money you saved belonged to the American worker Walmart didn't hire. Since you benefit off such a transaction, you are receiving stolen property.


This doesn't even begin to make sense. Correlation doesn't equal causation.



> Moving right along, since the federal government has no jurisdiction in who comes and goes within a state (only jurisdiction to naturalize) then you are inviting the federal government to expand eminent domain abuse. When half of the American people are willingly inviting foreigners to come here (by virtue of the fact they willingly do business with them) the federal government has no jurisdiction to put up a wall in any state. It is up to each state to decide if they want a wall and how they should pay for it. Building a wall carries costs beyond dollars and cents. The taking of personal property (be it real estate or jobs) cannot be lightly dismissed. I'm not saying I agree with what actions others take; we even have counter-measures to employ. But, when at least half of the people in the United States disagree with those obsessed with the wall, you have to look at the long road ahead. Will your solutions cause you problems down the road? Suppose I could show where that was exactly the case. IF I did, would you then be open to discussing the principles of law that are being used to get you to agree to slavery, tyranny and oppression?


A person within the federal boundaries of the US has free movement between the states, yet a foreigner doesn't have free movement to enter the US boundaries without authorization from the Federal Government. Nobody "willingly" invites illegals to come here, they come of their own accord as economic refugees. They then use forged documents that can't be scrutinized by an employer to gain work fraudulently. The Federal Government has all the jurisdiction to place a barrier/wall along our borders and to patrol those borders with guards, as has been done since 1606. What problems does a wall create for US Citizens down the road? How does building a wall equal people agreeing to slavery/tyranny and oppression?


----------



## Denton

Traxxas said:


> What rule of law is being ignored and what rights are put at risk?
> 
> Little too much projection in your claims, as most legal immigrants that become citizens are pretty much split on party choice. None have been programmed to hate "white people" nor our system of "jurisprudence"; American History (most know American History better than most citizens already); or the US Constitution. So fear and ignorance is wanting a person to enter the country legally instead of illegally? Wanting a person to be screened for health issues and or a back ground check is fear and ignorance?
> 
> Immigration doesn't effect your liberty, nor that of any other citizens liberty. You can interact with whom you choose, yet you and they need to be in compliance with the laws of the land. The employer created the job and owns the job, yet the employer is bound by the laws of society in which he was granted the ability to start a business and must comply with those laws for his protection and for the protection of the employee(s) he may hire. You have a right to own property, and with eminent domain it can be bought by the government at fair market value. A Citizens rights are not being attacked, as the person where eminent domain my be used can fight it in court if they so desire.
> 
> This doesn't even begin to make sense. Correlation doesn't equal causation.
> 
> A person within the federal boundaries of the US has free movement between the states, yet a foreigner doesn't have free movement to enter the US boundaries without authorization from the Federal Government. Nobody "willingly" invites illegals to come here, they come of their own accord as economic refugees. They then use forged documents that can't be scrutinized by an employer to gain work fraudulently. The Federal Government has all the jurisdiction to place a barrier/wall along our borders and to patrol those borders with guards, as has been done since 1606. What problems does a wall create for US Citizens down the road? How does building a wall equal people agreeing to slavery/tyranny and oppression?


You are quoting someone who can't respond; he can't answer your questions. 
He is no longer a member, here.


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## hawgrider

Denton said:


> OK. Problem solved.


Never saw any troll last so long here. Congratulations on mastering the patience game you are a better man than me I'd have sent him to the gallows long ago.


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## RedLion

It appears that Pelosi is going to allow the lefties to support some funding for a border wall. I thought that is was inevitable.



> On Wednesday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told the press that there would "there will not be another shutdown" over the proposed border wall. She also said she will fully support any resolution that the bipartisan committee in charge of the negotiations come up with, even if it includes full wall funding.


https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/pelosi_and_other_democrats_caving_to_border_wall_funding.html


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## Traxxas

RedLion said:


> It appears that Pelosi is going to allow the lefties to support some funding for a border wall. I thought that is was inevitable.
> 
> https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/pelosi_and_other_democrats_caving_to_border_wall_funding.html


If she allows for wall funding now, should she then be blamed for the past shutdown where she wouldn't give $1 for wall funding? Where she failed to take up the Presidents offers of DACA extension? Why should the President be blamed for the past shutdown then?


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## RedLion

Traxxas said:


> If she allows for wall funding now, should she then be blamed for the past shutdown where she wouldn't give $1 for wall funding? Where she failed to take up the Presidents offers of DACA extension? Why should the President be blamed for the past shutdown then?


Pelosi has no choice based on the numbers and based on the SOTU speech. She will go the route of secretly allowing dem reps to vote to support the funding, and she will then say that while she opposed it, other dems in trump districts voted for it. I believe as I have heard for some time that Pelosi will only be the Speaker for a short while before stepping down in favor of someone else. The wall is great, but there are other very important things that need to change, such as legal immigration, visa over stay and catch and release in order to really stop illegal aliens.


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## Traxxas

RedLion said:


> Pelosi has no choice based on the numbers and based on the SOTU speech. She will go the route of secretly allowing dem reps to vote to support the funding, and she will then say that while she opposed it, other dems in trump districts voted for it. I believe as I have heard for some time that Pelosi will only be the Speaker for a short while before stepping down in favor of someone else. The wall is great, but there are other very important things that need to change, such as legal immigration, visa over stay and catch and release in order to really stop illegal aliens.


I agree, the issue is the building of the wall, though. The wall is to reduce EWI, as nothing will eliminate EWI all together. Everywhere a wall has been placed EWI has decreased by 90 - 97%.

As to Pelosi and her time....seeing is believing. As to her being blamed for the past shutdown, she wouldn't let anything come to the floor and was adamant about NO funding for the wall. If she now lets that bill to the floor and get voted on should she not be blamed for the past shutdown?

As to all illegals here, IRS knows where the overwhelming majority of them are and where they are employed. Catch and release, started under past Presidents as there isn't enough holding space to detain all, would require Congress to fund more detainment facilities along with courts and judges.


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## Smitty901

The man that said this is in deep crap right now he is being cited as a raciest.

“Heaven has a wall, a gate and a strict immigration policy. Hell has open borders. Let that sink in.”


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## Elvis

Read an article about how the Dims may now be willing to go for around 2 billion for the wall. I sent emails to my congressmen (2 senators and one representative) saying that I wanted at least 5.7 billion for the wall.


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## The Tourist

Clearly, the wall is going to take more than just 2 billion to even begin with. Then again, every major government program I can name has had some form of "mission creep."

The president should take what's offered, thank both sides of the aisle, invest what he has, and then ask for more during the next budget meeting.


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## RedLion

Good news from the 9th Circuit.....



> 9th Circuit Sides With Trump On Environmental Waivers For Border Wall





> The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled for the Trump administration Monday in a case challenging its use of waivers to bypass environmental regulations in constructing parts of the border wall.


https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/11/ninth-circuit-trump-border-wall/


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## RedLion

Trump is preparing to get money from sources other than Congress.



> Fortunately, POTUS Trump planned for the intentional failure of McConnell and his veto-proof construct. [Rest assured, thankfully, President Trump knows exactly who McConnell is.] President Trump had anticipated the result and dispatched Mulvaney to review the granular DHS, DoD and DoS programs throughout fiscal year 2019 appropriations to assemble secondary funding.











https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/02/12/decepticon-mcconnell-caucus-presents-donald-trump-the-take-it-or-leave-it-border-compromise-deal/


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## Prepared One

RedLion said:


> Trump is preparing to get money from sources other than Congress.
> 
> View attachment 95647
> 
> 
> https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/02/12/decepticon-mcconnell-caucus-presents-donald-trump-the-take-it-or-leave-it-border-compromise-deal/


All well and good, IF, big if, he gets the money. I still contend that the larger issue is immigration policy as a whole. Unenforced laws, a cumbersome unworkable immigration system, regulations, and policy that gets ignored or changed depending on who is in office, that needs to be addressed as well, or the wall is just so much wasted money.


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## RedLion

Prepared One said:


> All well and good, IF, big if, he gets the money. I still contend that the larger issue is immigration policy as a whole. Unenforced laws, a cumbersome unworkable immigration system, regulations, and policy that gets ignored or changed depending on who is in office, that needs to be addressed as well, or the wall is just so much wasted money.


The immigration policy, green card and work visas are the larger mess no doubt.


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## RedLion

A darn fine idea right here.



> Democrats will attempt the usual lawfare approach to tie up this presidential initiative in court. I hope a brilliant suggestion I saw yesterday, but cannot remember the source of, is followed. Let a friendly governor of a state in the Fifth Circuit (perhaps Texas) mount a quick lawsuit so the most conservative appeals court in the nation will affirm the president's right to spend the money.


https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/trump_should_take_the_money_1357_billion_and_run__adding_it_to_the_other_pools_of_money_mick_mulvaney_has_uncovered.html


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## Sasquatch

Let's see where Cruz's bill to seize drug money and use toward the wall goes. Dems cant be against that and still look good. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## RedLion

Sasquatch said:


> Let's see where Cruz's bill to seize drug money and use toward the wall goes. Dems cant be against that and still look good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Sure they can. They have limited ability to rationally see that what they say or stand for does not look good. They think that because they came up with it, then it must look good.


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## Illini Warrior

Sasquatch said:


> Let's see where Cruz's bill to seize drug money and use toward the wall goes. Dems cant be against that and still look good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


you want to bet - the far far left is advocating the murder of birthed babies - and keeping DNC support >>>> damn hard to rationize crazy ....


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## Sasquatch

Illini Warrior said:


> you want to bet - the far far left is advocating the murder of birthed babies - and keeping DNC support >>>> damn hard to rationize crazy ....


It doesn't matter if they keep DNC support. Those peoples minds can never be changed. They are mentally ill. It's the Independent's we want to see the Progs in a bad light. Since border security is an issue most Americans support I believe the Dems would be shooting themselves in the foot to go against it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## A Watchman




----------



## RedLion

> Ignored by Media: Trump Is Using Obama's National Emergency on Mexican Cartels to Build the Border Wall


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/02/ignored-by-media-trump-is-using-obama-national-emergency-on-mexican-cartels-to-build-the-border-wall/


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## StratMaster




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## Illini Warrior

anybody that thinks Prez Trump just called out this Emergency Powers event on a whim - must be oblivious >>>> this was choreographed like a D-Day battle plan - Pelosi & Shumer couldn't have been more cooperative - right down to that outrageous excuse for a budget - talking about roadblocks and congressional blockades >>>>> whoever gets the pleasure of defending this POTUS action to SCOTUS is going to have a freaking field day laying it alllll out - this is EXACTLY why that Act was written into the POTUS powers >>>> Who thinks Pelosi & Shumer would be acting any differently if Russia or North Korea or the Chinese were directly attacking the US and it's interests???????


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## RedLion

A good chunk of change if you ask me.



> Pentagon Finds $12.8 Billion For Trump's Border Wall


https://www.weaselzippers.us/414355-pentagon-finds-12-8-billion-for-trumps-border-wall/


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## RedLion

> Pentagon Notifies Congress It Authorized the Transfer of $1 Billion to Begin New Border Wall Construction


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/03/pentagon-notifies-congress-it-has-authorized-the-transfer-of-1-billion-to-begin-new-border-wall-construction/


----------

