# Parts kits for firearms.



## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

Ok I found on sportsmansguide.com parts kits for ak's ar's and more for cheap. Some of them are used others are not, but my question is: If you buy them and assemble a rifle from them do they make a full auto assault rifle, or do they make a semi auto carbine?


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## Beach Kowboy (Feb 13, 2014)

They will make semi automatic..


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

This it the AR kit I'd like to get for myself.
Rock River Arms: .223/5.56mm Kits
It is rather expensive as kits go, yet RRA makes a solid AR and the quality is there.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Most "part kits" do not include the receiver. With an AK you CAN make your own receiver from sheet metal, but why not just buy a complete semi auto AK? They aren't that expensive.
In my own opinion, anyone who builds or buys an unregistered full auto weapon is a fool. Doing so risks very serious prison time in very serious prisons.
I have never been in more trouble than a traffic ticket and I intend to keep it that way.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

With the right gun you don't need "spare" parts. The only guns I have ever owned that needed spare or repair parts was a shotgun I got that wouldn't hold ammo in the magazine, My Mossberg 500 that the plastic safety slide broke on, and a Colt Combat Commander that I bought in non-functional condition - NEW. I fixed them all with no parts other than what I made myself from spare bits of metal or in the case of the Colt with hones and a Dremel tool. The rest of my guns have never needed any repairs - including my 03A3 that has had more rounds through it than I care to count and My Revolver that I put 40000 rounds through in a three year period and 10s of thousands rounds before and after. 

Maybe I am missing something but if you need to stock spare parts perhaps you should invest in some guns that just work?


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## firefighter72 (Apr 18, 2014)

PaulS said:


> With the right gun you don't need "spare" parts. The only guns I have ever owned that needed spare or repair parts was a shotgun I got that wouldn't hold ammo in the magazine, My Mossberg 500 that the plastic safety slide broke on, and a Colt Combat Commander that I bought in non-functional condition - NEW. I fixed them all with no parts other than what I made myself from spare bits of metal or in the case of the Colt with hones and a Dremel tool. The rest of my guns have never needed any repairs - including my 03A3 that has had more rounds through it than I care to count and My Revolver that I put 40000 rounds through in a three year period and 10s of thousands rounds before and after.
> 
> Maybe I am missing something but if you need to stock spare parts perhaps you should invest in some guns that just work?


No my idea is to build a rifle by buying one of these parts kit for cheaper then just buying a prebuilt rifle.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Many of these are missing the lower. The part that makes it a weapon by law.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

I keep a couple complete, assembled 'parts kits' in 1911 

All kidding aside, I fully believe that one is none and two is one if it's deemed a necessary tool.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

firefighter72 said:


> Ok I found on sportsmansguide.com parts kits for ak's ar's and more for cheap. Some of them are used others are not, but my question is: If you buy them and assemble a rifle from them do they make a full auto assault rifle, or do they make a semi auto carbine?


About a decade or so ago if you put together the parts they gave you it would be full auto. I bought a parts kit for an AK around 2000 and threw the trigger group that came with it away immediately before I started building it just in case the ATF came a knockin' Now they come with semi auto trigger parts. (I bought mine from Sportsman's Guide and it had the full auto sear and disconnector)
If you are going to build one I recommend the AR, the AK is a lot harder and I had to make special tools to rivet it together, not a good choice for a first build.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

PaulS said:


> With the right gun you don't need "spare" parts. The only guns I have ever owned that needed spare or repair parts was a shotgun I got that wouldn't hold ammo in the magazine, My Mossberg 500 that the plastic safety slide broke on, and a Colt Combat Commander that I bought in non-functional condition - NEW. I fixed them all with no parts other than what I made myself from spare bits of metal or in the case of the Colt with hones and a Dremel tool. The rest of my guns have never needed any repairs - including my 03A3 that has had more rounds through it than I care to count and My Revolver that I put 40000 rounds through in a three year period and 10s of thousands rounds before and after.
> 
> Maybe I am missing something but if you need to stock spare parts perhaps you should invest in some guns that just work?


Any gun will need parts eventually, even if it's just a recoil spring after 20,000 rounds. They are machines built by man and will fail eventually especially semi autos. I had a Ruger cylinder latch spring fail, I could have made it work but they sent me a couple new ones free, and Ruger is one of the toughest revolvers out there.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

The part that makes the gun an assault rifle rather than one that looks like an assault rifle is the full auto sear. ATF will be very unhappy with you if you put one in your rifle. Aside from that the parts kits are around $400 plus you have to buy the receiver plus have a gunsmith assemble it for you. Look around and you can buy an AK for $600-$700. Save yourself the trouble.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

jimb1972 said:


> Any gun will need parts eventually, even if it's just a recoil spring after 20,000 rounds. They are machines built by man and will fail eventually especially semi autos. I had a Ruger cylinder latch spring fail, I could have made it work but they sent me a couple new ones free, and Ruger is one of the toughest revolvers out there.


You had a Ruger cylinder latch spring fail? Did you try to modify it or take it apart and lose it or install it wrong? My "little" (six inch barrel) Security-Six has had way over 40000 rounds through it and I have never had anything fail on it. The gun still shoots 1" five shot groups for me at 25 yards and has a better trigger pull than when it was new. It is hard to believe that a stainless music wire spring would just fail. It's not that I don't believe you - it's just that you are the first person who said they had a failure on a Ruger revolver.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Most "part kits" do not include the receiver. With an AK you CAN make your own receiver from sheet metal, but why not just buy a complete semi auto AK? They aren't that expensive.


Why buy a registered, serial numbered complete firearm with a paper trail when you can build a completely off the books firearm yourself? Just buy a flat, pre-drilled lower AK receiver and bend it yourself. You can very easily build a completely untraceable firearm for significantly less than it would cost you to buy an easily traceable gun with a paper trail.

The question shouldn't be "why not just buy a complete semi auto AK"...its "why WOULD you buy a complete semi-auto AK"?


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

keith9365 said:


> The part that makes the gun an assault rifle rather than one that looks like an assault rifle is the full auto sear. ATF will be very unhappy with you if you put one in your rifle. Aside from that the parts kits are around $400 plus you have to buy the receiver plus have a gunsmith assemble it for you. Look around and you can buy an AK for $600-$700. Save yourself the trouble.


Why would you have to have a gunsmith assemble it for you? AK's are really quite easy to assemble. Anybody with a vice, a hammer, and a few other basic tools can put one together without much trouble. AK's are very simple machines.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Charles Martel said:


> Why buy a registered, serial numbered complete firearm with a paper trail when you can build a completely off the books firearm yourself? Just buy a flat, pre-drilled lower AK receiver and bend it yourself. You can very easily build a completely untraceable firearm for significantly less than it would cost you to buy totally traceable gun with a paper trail.
> 
> The question shouldn't be "why not just buy a complete semi auto AK"...its "why WOULD you buy a complete semi-auto AK"?


I'm not arguing with you here, but a person could just as easily buy one from a private person. 
In Florida the FDLE website lets a person anonymously enter a serial number to see if the gun has been reported stolen. I do this with every private firearm I buy.
And firearms in Florida are not registered.
For those who lack the skills/tools to build their own there are other options besides buying from a licensed shop.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

firefighter72 said:


> No my idea is to build a rifle by buying one of these parts kit for cheaper then just buying a prebuilt rifle.


Go ahead and get the parts kit, man. Don't let these guys talk you out of it. If you're mechanically inclined and like to build things, you'll have a ton of fun putting together your own AK. I love building guns. If you need any help, I can help walk you through it. There are a number of videos on youtube that show in considerable detail how to build your own AK as well.

Get a good kit (I really like the Bulgarian and Yugo kits...the Romanian "G" kits are very nice, too) with a chrome lined barrel, and purchase a good flat receiver. It's tough to get a cheap WASR P.O.S. for less than $600, anymore...and most well built domestically assembled AK's (Arsenal, etc.) are in the $1,000+ neighborhood. You can complete your own incredibly high quality, off the books AK build for less than $500.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I'm not arguing with you here, but a person could just as easily buy one from a private person.
> In Florida the FDLE website lets a person anonymously enter a serial number to see if the gun has been reported stolen. I do this with every private firearm I buy.
> And firearms in Florida are not registered.
> For those who lack the skills/tools to build their own there are other options besides buying from a licensed shop.


That's true. It's still legal in most states to buy/sell firearms privately. However, in my experience, private sellers often ask for picture I.D. and want to record your name on a bill of sale. I had one guy demand to see my concealed carry permit before he would agree to sell me the gun (needless to say, I backed out of that transaction). It's becoming increasingly difficult, even with private parties, to truly have a firearm with no paper trail.

Moreover, all lower receivers manufactured for sale to the general public have serial numbers engraved on them. As such, they are traceable/trackable. The only legal way around this is to build (complete) your own lower.

Most people have the skills and tools necessary to build their own AK. It's surprisingly easy.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

It is surprisingly easy to build any kind of gun that you might want. In most places it is even legal to build non-full auto guns and use them.
It's 2pm here right now but I could go to the hardware store and pick up what I need and have three shotguns by 6PM. I can pick 12 ga, or 410 and the 410 could also double as a 45 colt (not legally).
With a bit more time I could put together a legal pistol or rifle in most any caliber that would be functional and legal but not pretty. This could be done without power tools other than a hand drill. It would be faster in a machine shop and with a bit of care you could even have a good looking gun but they would both shoot accurately enough to hit a four inch target at 100 yards.


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## The Resister (Jul 24, 2013)

Charles Martel said:


> That's true. It's still legal in most states to buy/sell firearms privately. However, in my experience, private sellers often ask for picture I.D. and want to record your name on a bill of sale. I had one guy demand to see my concealed carry permit before he would agree to sell me the gun (needless to say, I backed out of that transaction). It's becoming increasingly difficult, even with private parties, to truly have a firearm with no paper trail.
> 
> Moreover, all lower receivers manufactured for sale to the general public have serial numbers engraved on them. As such, they are traceable/trackable. The only legal way around this is to build (complete) your own lower. Most people have the skills and tools necessary to build their own AK. It's surprisingly easy.


This thread seems to be geared toward the AR 15 and AK family of rifles. Let me leave you a link on how NOT to buy a firearm:

American Defense Network - How NOT to buy a gun - Powered by ForumCo.com - The Forum Company

Now, let's talk about building firearms. You can build all kinds of firearms. Maybe you can save some money and just buy one. But, what if Uncle Scam decides to confiscate the weapons in your area? If you have a traditional firearm, what are you going to do? Lie? If you had built a firearm, Uncle Scam would not know that yours existed. Now, don't get me wrong. Even if you build a firearm, you have to give it some kind of serial number. But, in many states there are no registration laws. And If / When the SHTF, you won't be affected by the government trying to confiscate your weapon.

Even if you don't build a weapon, when you see parts kits for sale, they are an excellent investment. If something major goes wrong, you have spare parts; if you want to build something so that you become confident that you can fend for yourself and always have a functioning firearm, you're covered.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

PaulS said:


> You had a Ruger cylinder latch spring fail? Did you try to modify it or take it apart and lose it or install it wrong? My "little" (six inch barrel) Security-Six has had way over 40000 rounds through it and I have never had anything fail on it. The gun still shoots 1" five shot groups for me at 25 yards and has a better trigger pull than when it was new. It is hard to believe that a stainless music wire spring would just fail. It's not that I don't believe you - it's just that you are the first person who said they had a failure on a Ruger revolver.


No I never ****ed with it at all, and it was on a security six, IIRC it had been pushed farther down into the hole it rested in there was a lip at the bottom it had slide past and was no longer providing enough tension to lock the cylinder in place. Maybe you should check out the Ruger forum, I am far from the only person to ever have a problem with a Ruger. Their customer service is great, but there are occasional failures, just like with any firearm. With the round counts you claim you must be the luckiest man alive to have never had a part fail.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

PaulS said:


> It is surprisingly easy to build any kind of gun that you might want. In most places it is even legal to build non-full auto guns and use them.
> It's 2pm here right now but I could go to the hardware store and pick up what I need and have three shotguns by 6PM. I can pick 12 ga, or 410 and the 410 could also double as a 45 colt (not legally).
> With a bit more time I could put together a legal pistol or rifle in most any caliber that would be functional and legal but not pretty. This could be done without power tools other than a hand drill. It would be faster in a machine shop and with a bit of care you could even have a good looking gun but they would both shoot accurately enough to hit a four inch target at 100 yards.


Actually the .410 can double as a .45 legally, the other way around is where you will have problems, but only if the barrel is under 18" and the barrel is not rifled.


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

I see no problem with a person kitting up a rifle, as long as they are not a convicted felon or otherwise barred from owning a firearm and it's done within the guidelines of the law.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

jimb1972 said:


> Actually the .410 can double as a .45 legally, the other way around is where you will have problems, but only if the barrel is under 18" and the barrel is not rifled.


As long as you are shooting a shotgun it is legal - when you start shooting bullets it must have a rifled barrel. Slugs are the only exception that I am aware of. You can fire a shotshell from a rifled barrel (I don't think it works well) even in a pistol but you can't have a rifle or pistol with a smooth bore unless it is an antique or collectable musket.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

rifling (the spirals inside the barrel) (hence rifle) are what adds spin characteristics to the bullet which assists in improving accuracy. This is why accuracy can degrade slightly on a gun that has been used enough times to wear down the rifling on a rifle. 

So yes, this is a bit why smoothbore vs. rifling was a game changer in the revolutionary war (war of american independence). Not only did the rebels use geurilla tactics (as opposed to British block formation) during battle but they also had rifles in common use, as opposed to the British who used older smoothbore technology - this is in part why block formation was used to fight - because there was no accuracy so they fired en massed in the general direction of where they were trying to hit.

This is why shotguns are close range, and spread fire (shot) because as distance increases accuracy drastically decreases in smoothbore.

FYI


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Depends on the State Judge 45/410 ok in some no tin others. shoots both. Many 410 shotguns are sold to fire 45 also.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

PaulS said:


> As long as you are shooting a shotgun it is legal - when you start shooting bullets it must have a rifled barrel. Slugs are the only exception that I am aware of. You can fire a shotshell from a rifled barrel (I don't think it works well) even in a pistol but you can't have a rifle or pistol with a smooth bore unless it is an antique or collectable musket.


If the barrel is under 18" and not rifled you have a short shotgun which falls under the NFA, if the barrel is over 18" you can fire anything out of a smooth bore. The rifled barrel is how S&W and Taurus get around it in the Judge and Governor. There is no law against a smooth bore firing rifle ammunition that I am aware of.

If you build an AK from a parts kit be sure to review 922r and make sure you have the required number of US made parts.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

NEF has two 410 barrels for the 410 tracker shotgun. One is a full choke 410 only and the other is a rifled barrel 45/410 barrel. The rifled barrel has a screw in "choke" similar to the 45 colt Thompson Center Contender in 45/410. The 45/410 barrel is actually a 45 caliber barrel instead of the 41 caliber of the 410 only barrel. You could shoot the 410 in the 45/410 barrel without the "choke" but the pattern would be much wider due in part to the larger bore but also the rifling putting a twist on the shot column. The 45/410 barrel is better (more accurate) with 410 slugs than the smooth bore barrel. I would expect better accuracy with the slug than the 45 colt round because of the large jump the 45 has to make before hitting the rifling.

I own a 45/410 and found that the 410 slugs are more accurate and exit the muzzle faster than the 45 Colt rounds. (mine also has a rifled barrel)


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

jimb1972 said:


> If the barrel is under 18" and not rifled you have a short shotgun which falls under the NFA, if the barrel is over 18" you can fire anything out of a smooth bore. The rifled barrel is how S&W and Taurus get around it in the Judge and Governor. There is no law against a smooth bore firing rifle ammunition that I am aware of.
> 
> If you build an AK from a parts kit be sure to review 922r and make sure you have the required number of US made parts.


There is, in the ATFE literature, some special coverage of smooth bore pistols firing cartridge rounds being termed a "zip gun". I believe you are right because I don't remember any mention of it affecting long guns. So it is likely legal, at least federally to shoot a 45 Colt from a 410 shotgun but remember that you are forcing a .451 bullet down a .41 caliber bore and with no rifling the bullet will have no accuracy beyond a shot range. Less accuracy than a shotgun slug in the same barrel I would think because the slug is designed to be stable to some extent where the bullet is designed to get stability from rifling.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

PaulS said:


> There is, in the ATFE literature, some special coverage of smooth bore pistols firing cartridge rounds being termed a "zip gun". I believe you are right because I don't remember any mention of it affecting long guns. So it is likely legal, at least federally to shoot a 45 Colt from a 410 shotgun but remember that you are forcing a .451 bullet down a .41 caliber bore and with no rifling the bullet will have no accuracy beyond a shot range. Less accuracy than a shotgun slug in the same barrel I would think because the slug is designed to be stable to some extent where the bullet is designed to get stability from rifling.


Most slugs I've seen are poured with rifling in the slug, so they cause themselves to twist in the smooth bore.

As to the topic at hand, building one's own rifle is an empowering feat... and horrifying at the same time.
Learn all you can before starting, watch every video you can find. After a while you will start to feel very confident that you can deal with all the aspects of assembly.
I would recommend that you use new parts, not used. Used springs are risky business, and without a micrometer, you can't be sure the worn pins and such are still the correct length(within tolerances).
Another poster added the bonus of building one's own rifle as being safer from tracking. This is very true.
Even though we don't have registration in most places, there is still a paper trail and a NICS call whenever you make a firearms purchase from a dealer.
You can assemble an AR or AK without ever having this issue.
You can buy 80% AR lowers and mill them out yourself, saving money, and not dealing with a serial number.
If you have a dill press, this process can be extremely easy. If you don't, I don't recommend trying it.
The only caveat with building your own firearm with no serial number is, it can NEVER be sold. It must remain yours until you die and someone else inherits it.

Good luck!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Kauboy said:


> Most slugs I've seen are poured with rifling in the slug, so they cause themselves to twist in the smooth bore.


Actually, no. The "rifling" seen on a Foster slug is so it can swage down when passing throuth the choke. It was not designed to impart spin to the slug. Nor will it.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Actually, no. The "rifling" seen on a Foster slug is so it can swage down when passing through the choke. It was not designed to impart spin to the slug. Nor will it.


You've just corrected a long held misunderstanding.
Thank you!


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Rifled slugs stabilize on the "shuttle-cock" principle and it is only partially effective when the "birdie" is all made of lead.


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