# Brewing and Distilling...



## Dark Jester

So, are there any home brewers/distillers out there?

Brewing beer, ale, cider and similar drinks are currently legal, but distilling these into liquor is not without proper licensing. 
Nonetheless, if SHTF, few would care about "Revenuers".

I have a brewing system that makes ~10 gallons of beer/ale at a time and it is quite efficient. Once one has the basic equipment, they can brew their own easily. Making it taste like larger scale brewers takes a bit of experience. Once you have your yeast started, it can be self-sustaining. Grains and spices can be purchased and stored relatively cheaply. The only concern would be the hops as they grow well only in certain climates. Storing them in a pelleted form is a good alternative.

As stated, distilling to produce ethyl alcohol is illegal without proper licensing, but stills can be used for distilling other fluids; water, essential oils, vinegar, etc. Like brewing, distilling is a fairly simple process that has many benefits.


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## Dalarast

I like it.... also a home brewer when I'm home to actually home brew. I only have done one full mash as I enjoy the simplicity (yes I'm lazy) of a partial mash. I can brew technically over 10 gallons at a time; but can only store in a 7 gallon carboy so I'm still only brewing 5 gallons at a time. But I have done the good ol back to back brewing to fill up to carboys while also smoking some beef or pork... I mean what could be worse than having the excuse your cooking all day while also brewing so you technically can't help around the house..... right?

Don't hops in the pellet form have a shelf life? I know at the brewstores and online shops you can get them in nice vacuumed sealed containers which may prolong the life....but I wonder if you could freeze dry them for long term storage?


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## Dark Jester

You too? I usually throw some ribs, pork shoulder, chickens, etc. into the smoker while I have a brew day. The difference; my wife leaves me alone as she knows there will be a great meal coming. I usually make my Brunswick Stew, Bacon Potato Salad and BBQ Beans with jalapenos to go with the meats...

Yes, the hops do lose something over time, but as you suggested, if you keep the pellets sealed and in a cool dark place, they will last for quite some time. Freeze drying may be a good way to keep them but I am not sure what effects it would have on their flavor.


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## Ragnarök

and now im hungry ^^


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## keith9365

I LOVE me some beer! I dont care for liquor though. When I was a kid many many moons ago my dad who"s dad made moonshine in the 30's helped me make a still for science class. We actually distilled alcohol in it.


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## CornerStone

Im more interested in distilling alchohol. I live in a great climate for growing corn and have easy access to it. I would be brewing for bartering or other things. We dont drink much so i know my stock would be around for when i need it.


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## Kauboy

CornerStone said:


> Im more interested in distilling alchohol. I live in a great climate for growing corn and have easy access to it. I would be brewing for bartering or other things. We dont drink much so i know my stock would be around for when i need it.


If the result is intended for fuel, and not for consumption, you only need to fill out an application and get approved by the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.


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## Kauboy

I just learned yesterday, coincidentally, that distilling your own liquor for consumption is illegal without permission and taxes.

How the hell is that illegal?
How can it be illegal for me to privately distill alcohol for personal consumption?
No selling, no trading, just for me.
How does the federal government get to dictate such a thing?
The commerce clause doesn't apply at all.
Shouldn't this be beatable in court?


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## Seneca

From what I understand a person can legally distill up to 200 gallons per year without having to file any paper work with the feds.


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## Kauboy

Seneca said:


> From what I understand a person can legally distill up to 200 gallons per year without having to file any paper work with the feds.


I was reading the TTB website to see if there were any loopholes, but couldn't find any.
Where did you find this?


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## Wallimiyama

Seneca...that isn't at all correct. You're going to get folk into trouble...


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## Kauboy

Wallimiyama said:


> Seneca...that isn't at all correct. You're going to get folk into trouble...


Seneca needs to be more specific...
He may have found it somewhere else that needs to be addressed.


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## MI.oldguy

I knew a professor that taught at UCSF,totally not a liberal type.he built a still for fuel only,used it in all his vehicles.he went to the produce terminal and got the rotten veggies and fruit.funny,the exhaust from his cars smelled like whatever he made the alky that day from.oranges or apples,nice.lettuce or cabbage,BLEEH!.


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## Dalarast

Seneca said:


> From what I understand a person can legally distill up to 200 gallons per year without having to file any paper work with the feds.


I may be wrong... has happened a few times today... but the 200 gallon rule is not for alcohol; but for home made beer and/or wine. I'm sure Kauboy is correct with his post on the only way its legal is if you are distilling for fuel.... and no sampling of said fuel to test octane


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## hardcore

I brew too...I use a 15 gallon keg as a boiler, and a mile high reflux still. i have some sweet feed fermenting right now. just waiting for the weather to cool off before it gets ran.


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## CornerStone

I could care less what the government says is illegal. I'll be brewing indoors and growing my own corn for mash so the Feds will never know


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## Seneca

Well it is quite possible that I am wrong. I seem to remember seeing, hearing or reading something to that effect. My recollection isn't what it use to be. Ah well please forget what I said. 

I checked the TTB too and could only find information about the commercial aspects of distillery. So where I recalled the 200 gallon thing from is currently any bodies guess. 

Apparently you do need ATF approval for a home distillery. So please contact the ATF to get your distilling information instead of listening to an old coot,. Well not a total FUBAR I did learn something. :lol:


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## Dark Jester

A license is needed to distill ETOH; ethyl alcohol. No matter what the intended use may be. Therefore, its illegal to make moonshine so nobody makes any. Just like its illegal to make meth or grow marijuana. So, if we make handguns illegal, crimes involving guns will disappear... Right?


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## oddapple

It depends on where u are how much beer, wine, liquor & tobacco u can produce for yourself.


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## Dark Jester

Beer and wine, probably. Tobacco, I'm not sure. Alcohol? I have seen no documentation that allows for any production of alcohol, personal consumption or otherwise, without a license. Do you have a legitimate proof source? I would be interested in reading it.


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## oddapple

Tobacco I'm sure because I already !#$& said - check other States, not TX & Yankee States, check Ar, Tn, La - where tobacco and booze are still home-made things by more people. That may not do you any good but some other person's state may be different. You can grow x-amount of pot in Colorado too.


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## Dark Jester

During my annual FFL inspection, I asked my ATF Agent about this and was told it is a Federal law, not a state law; no ETOH production without a license. So, if you know of a state statute that is in conflict with the federal law, I would be interested in seeing it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I just want to see it. An example of a conflict as you pointed out; marijuana legalization in Colorado even though it is against Federal law.


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## oddapple

well u may be right about that? I guess if people didn't much give a sheet about fed booze laws in peace, why they are for sure just gonna care a bunch during war. (Sarcasm) Laws may have changed too. In the south tho, the fbi is about useful as t it's on a boar hog so sure it was different for us. Now they going lord of the flies over there and where we lived about to be a ghost town.


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## Dark Jester

For the record...

FROM THE Bureau of ATFE Website: Spirits cannot be produced for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without a license to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying excise tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Please note that only a qualified distilled spirits plant may distill. There are no personal exemptions for production of distilled spirits. See 27 CFR 24.75 or 27 CFR 25.205-207.

Spirits may be produced for non-beverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive TTB's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.


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## Dark Jester

So remember... it's illegal to make your own whiskey, so it does not happen anywhere... anytime. Especially in my area. :wink:


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## Dalarast

Thought it was relevant


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## bigwheel

Seneca said:


> From what I understand a person can legally distill up to 200 gallons per year without having to file any paper work with the feds.


Think you understood that wrong. The 200 gallon thing pertains to beer and wine..and think you can make all you want nowadays. Converting any amount of beer..wine..wash..mash into ethanol is strictly against Federal Law. Like the man said you can send off to Obummer and get a permit for around 30 bucks and get a Ethanol Fuel Production Permit. Know quite a few folks who have them. Takes about six months to get it done and is pretty much an automatic issue since all the tree huggers love ethanol..except to drink..lol. Got to keep books on where it goes etc.


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## Arklatex

Anyone ever heard of jacking? Hehe... no heat, no coil, no still.


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## bigwheel

Heard of Raisin Jack. The dear deceased Daddy in Law was in the Navy fighting Japs in the South Pacific at age 16 loved the stuff. The Navy Cookies cooked it up. Wine made with fruit. Is that it?
Feds Take a Sudden Interest in Busting Home Distillers - Hit & Run : Reason.com


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## Arklatex

It's basically the opposite of distillation. You freeze the alcohol out as opposed to cooking it out. Pioneer style. Apple jack is good. It ain't pretty but it works.


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## Auntie

If you brew your own beer you can also feed the spent grains to your animals, make dog cookies, make your own bread. If you don't have animals you can usually trade it to someone who has chickens for some fresh eggs. We only produce about 15 lbs of spent grains when we brew beer 3 or 4 times a year. However, we get about 400 lbs free every few weeks from a local brewery, the majority is feed to our goats, sheep, chickens and ducks. The brewery owner gets a dozen duck eggs. I trade some of the spent grains to a neighbor for hay.


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## bigwheel

Them duck eggs are mighty rich. Good job on that.


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## Dark Jester

bigwheel said:


> Heard of Raisin Jack. The dear deceased Daddy in Law was in the Navy fighting Japs in the South Pacific at age 16 loved the stuff. The Navy Cookies cooked it up. Wine made with fruit. Is that it?
> Feds Take a Sudden Interest in Busting Home Distillers - Hit & Run : Reason.com


Thanks for the link. Reason is a good source for info not covered by other media outlets.


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