# The Democrats will never Confiscate Your Guns. Instead, You'll hand them over



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I believe that many will do just that. If it comes to that I do believe that some will not. The comment section is interesting.

The Democrats Will Never Confiscate Your Guns. Instead, You'll Hand them Over. - AllOutdoor.com


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

Sadly, it's probably very true. Most firearm owners in America are law-abiding people. That's why we put up w/ the stupid as hell paperwork, the waiting periods, the ridiculous restrictions, the inability to legally carry in some locations (depending on state law, etc), the expense of licensing (that shouldn't be necessary in the first place since there is the 2nd amendment), the lack of class III weapon availability, etc, etc, etc.

When the laws roll down, many will resist. They lose weapons in a tragic boating accidents, they get dropped while hunting and lost, etc, etc. May will be oiled and buried, hidden in the rafters, you name it. But when the feds start seizing assets, taking our kids, imprisoning loved ones, etc, *MOST* will cave and surrender arms. They will not decide to fight. The feds are counting on this.

After-all, there is one simple truth that so many modern day Rambo's and anti-government crusaders don't want to accept....

_You *cannot* fight the feds/police and win._

It's just not possible. A SWAT team rolls up on your property, you can't win. You live in a house, not a fortress, and it's certainly not bullet-proof. Need be, they'll lock you down, evac your neighbors, and fill your house w/ holes, you included. Hell, I've seen that very situation play out here in my home town roughly 20 years ago, and things were better back then.

If the Feds raid your place, you have even less chance. And let's say that SOMEHOW you do win the skirmish. What then? You think they'll just say "Oh well, I guess we'll just give up." Sure, whatever! It will be an ever escalating series of use of force until eventually you lose.

OK, MAYBE, just maybe, you're that 1 in a million Rambo that's been preparing for this for years. You have that property (in someone else's name) that you can get to where they won't find you. You have escape tunnels, arms caches, etc., whatever fantasy set-up you want. Then there the rest of us that have a job, a life, a family, and haven't had the disposable income to set-up the above system. That's exactly what the feds are counting on. The simple fact that modern life doesn't allow for the creation of the get-away" system like you, Mr. Super Rambo, may have. They know that they can leverage our ability to love, our families, our loved ones, they can turn the neighbors against us, tell the world that we are dangerous terrorists, etc. This will cut off most places we could hide.

The simple reality is that there are only two ways we can "win" at this "war".
1) Politically. We need to get these asshats out of office, and replace them with people that actually understand, and care for, the Constitution.
2) Reformation. Since I doubt very much that #1 will happen (or even CAN happen in this political climate), then we have to wait for the "the fall", and reform a government afterwards that is back to the founder's intentions.

Call me a pessimist, call me a quitter, call me what you want. But does anyone else REALISTICALLY see any other path? Seriously, even if 2,000,000 of us banded together w/ our arms, our ammo, etc. What are we going to do against modern air-power? A tank division? Artillery? Etc.


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## SGT E (Feb 25, 2015)

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/rifles-sks-ar-ak-long-guns/40913-ponder.html


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

Only 4% of the population supported the revolutionary war, how did that turn out, the majority may turn in their weapons, but the minority, will win the war......


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Egyas said:


> Sadly, it's probably very true. Most firearm owners in America are law-abiding people. That's why we put up w/ the stupid as hell paperwork, the waiting periods, the ridiculous restrictions, the inability to legally carry in some locations (depending on state law, etc), the expense of licensing (that shouldn't be necessary in the first place since there is the 2nd amendment), the lack of class III weapon availability, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> When the laws roll down, many will resist. They lose weapons in a tragic boating accidents, they get dropped while hunting and lost, etc, etc. May will be oiled and buried, hidden in the rafters, you name it. But when the feds start seizing assets, taking our kids, imprisoning loved ones, etc, *MOST* will cave and surrender arms. They will not decide to fight. The feds are counting on this.
> 
> ...


Solid take. I will say that if there are/were enough folks standing ground and it was public enough to sway sympathy to those folks, then the game changes big time. I also hope that there are still enough veterans, military, law enforcement and others that take their oath seriously and would not engage in UnConstitutional actions.


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

RedLion said:


> Solid take. I will say that if there are/were enough folks standing ground and it was public enough to sway sympathy to those folks, then the game changes big time. I also hope that there are still enough veterans, military, law enforcement and others that take their oath seriously and would not engage in UnConstitutional actions.


You are correct. I was making some "absolute" comparisons. Hopefully, there will be many members of the Police, Military, Oath Keepers, etc that simply refuse to comply/take part in the very unconstitutional schemes of the Demonrats. In my post, quoted above, was simply to show the ludicrousness of the idea that a few even well prepared preppers could have any hope to stand up to the Feds if they decide to push it.

Even if we can push public opinion against them and force them to stand down, we still don't WIN. All it does is delay the battle, because it will NOT change the desires of the Demonrats, they'll just regroup and try again from another angle.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Egyas said:


> After-all, there is one simple truth that so many modern day Rambo's and anti-government crusaders don't want to accept....
> 
> _You *cannot* fight the feds/police and win._
> ...
> Call me a pessimist, call me a quitter, call me what you want. But does anyone else REALISTICALLY see any other path? Seriously, even if 2,000,000 of us banded together w/ our arms, our ammo, etc. What are we going to do against modern air-power? A tank division? Artillery? Etc.


"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because *it is better to perish than to live as slaves*."
― Winston S. Churchill


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> "If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because *it is better to perish than to live as slaves*."
> ― Winston S. Churchill


Kauboy, it may surprise you, given my previous post, but I AGREE with you, and w/ Prime Minister Churchill.

The problem is, we are ALREADY slaves. To a point.

We live under a system that have gone down the "progressive" path, under BOTH parties, for far too long. Those that would rather get a check from the government, those that refuse to work for what they need to survive, those that put their political power, or the power of their group (like Unions) first, etc, aided by low-information voters and those that are easily duped based on emotional arguments have been able to vote in people that have striped our freedoms, one by one. These same people have appointed/confirmed judges that make rulings, binding in our country, using sources OTHER than the Constitution and US law (as violation of their oaths of office), either effectively making new law or "affirming" piss-poor laws and judgments by others.

In the end, while we may be full of piss-and-fire, effectively we are already slaves under this system. Sure, we vote. But look at the last primary cycle (especially on the left) to see how the rules of that very system skew it towards whatever politician that party prefers. Can you honestly sit there and say to me that you think it is truly representative of the people? When is the last time that you were excited for a Senator you were voting on? Or a representative? Or a governor?
_Granted, living in the Democratik People's Republik of Hellinois may have colored me more than most, but the last candidate I liked in this state was driven out of office. After 12 terms in the House (which means 12 failures of the Dems to get someone else to beat him in an election), and having massive public support, the Dems finally just changed the political maps (Gerrymandering on Steroids, brought to you my the king of villans, Mike Madigan) to force him out of office. Since them, not even the supposed Republicans that have been elected to higher office (Sen. Mark Kirk the RINO extreme, and Gov. Rauner the RINO lite) have been exciting. And they are both big government progressives._

Bottom line is that while we may WANT to fight, TRY to fight, hell actually DO fight, what the hell chance do we actually have? We (the voters as a whole) have traded freedom, liberty, and our very rights for "bread and circuses".

We have let them, under the guise of "public safety", neuter the 2nd amendment until it stands as a line of text only, barely recognized to even exist by this government or our laws.

So, I ask you seriously, with respect to the fine words you quoted from Mr. Churchill, what can we actually DO? Don't just say "We can fight!" That's a knee-jerk motivational line from a low-budget movie. Seriously, *what can we do?* What actions could we honestly take, utilizing our firearms and ammo, to successfully resist this government tyranny?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Egyas said:


> Kauboy, it may surprise you, given my previous post, but I AGREE with you, and w/ Prime Minister Churchill.
> 
> The problem is, we are ALREADY slaves. To a point.
> 
> ...


Tactics to use against one's government in the event of violent revolution are not to be discussed in open forums, nor would it be prudent to field such a topic on this particular one.
That said, you're looking at it from the perspective of an already caged animal. We need only look across the world, as it is right now, to find examples of normal citizens resisting the violent and oppressive hand of a truly tyrannical government. In many cases, they are doing their damnedest to fight with rudimentary weapons and tactics against entities that are using full military might against them, and yet they still stand. As Sir Churchill accurately surmised, it would be better to stand and die in such a struggle than to live on bended knee.

Our "masters" are currently in the phase of keeping the giant lulled into a slumber, but that never lasts. Sooner or later, the alarm goes off, and regular people break the shackles of solemn servitude, and unsheathe the sword of resistance.

This, of course, leads one to recall the words of Thomas Jefferson:
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. &#8230; What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

As long as we can hold fast to the tools of resistance, we hold the means and only await the motive.


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## 7515 (Aug 31, 2014)

My son in law had some coffee break talks about this same subject with others in his department when he was in LEO.
Nearly to a man every uniformed patrol officer he knew said they would leave the force before enforcing such an order to confiscate guns from citizens.


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## Mosinator762x54r (Nov 4, 2015)

I hope I am never put into a position where I have to fight like that.



Egyas said:


> Sadly, it's probably very true. Most firearm owners in America are law-abiding people. That's why we put up w/ the stupid as hell paperwork, the waiting periods, the ridiculous restrictions, the inability to legally carry in some locations (depending on state law, etc), the expense of licensing (that shouldn't be necessary in the first place since there is the 2nd amendment), the lack of class III weapon availability, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> When the laws roll down, many will resist. They lose weapons in a tragic boating accidents, they get dropped while hunting and lost, etc, etc. May will be oiled and buried, hidden in the rafters, you name it. But when the feds start seizing assets, taking our kids, imprisoning loved ones, etc, *MOST* will cave and surrender arms. They will not decide to fight. The feds are counting on this.
> 
> ...


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## 7052 (Jul 1, 2014)

Mosinator762x54r said:


> I hope I am never put into a position where I have to fight like that.


Same here. Honestly, I think that is the hope of most, hopefully all, sane firearm holders. I know a lot of people that own guns. Not a one of them is eager to jump on the "Come on, let's go fight the gub'er'mint!" bandwagon. *Not a one.*

However, I know that those people are out there. And their actions are part of what gives those traitorous gun-grabbers in office the excuse and "justification" to crack down on all of us that actually follow the laws.

I, like many others, want the system to get fixed politically, from the ground up. Unlike most however, I have given up hope that our system CAN be fixed w/o massive revolution. Maybe that revolution will be peaceful and political, but probably not. My opinion, it'll likely be the result of a SHTF situation that causes the governmental and/or economic system to collapse. When this happens, and the government is no longer capable of functioning in any meaningful way, that "revolution" I spoke of above will happen automatically.

I just hope we "win" in the end, and wind up w/ something that resembles the system outlined by our Constitution. Our current system *sure as hell does not.*


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