# Gun Guys vs Guys With a Gun



## Grinch (Jan 3, 2016)

Hello everyone, I hope you're all staying warm, sufficiently hydrated and mildly sane. My company recently merged with another company, which means our crews became diversified. We now have a total of four working crews, not fully functional yet but close. However my boss told me my normal crew would be changing a bit. I got both ends of the spectrum, one is this kid who pretty much exemplifies what everyone hates about ' kids these days '. The other though is of a bygone era, 76 years old and still out drilling. 

It's quite well known by my coworkers that I'm a gun guy, my tin, hardhat and even my company truck are adorned with gun related stickers. Even some of my tattoos are gun related. 

Now not that I'm saying he's old, but for story's sake and considering he has almost 50 years on me I'll be referring to the new guy on my crew as the Old Man or something similar. So the old man is trying to teach the young punk how to drill. 

We have a cake job going right now I'm running, so I have my apprentice who is a good driller and these two drilling for me the other day. I start up towards them and the old guy walks up to me, he asks if I have a Dan Wesson knocking the back of my tin. I nod and mention I have several, him and I stood there for probably half an hour talking strictly Dan Wessons. He's informing me of various nuances throughout the years, and at first a lot of people would consider him full of it, but the problem was he was right about everything. 

So he wanders back to the punk kid and he takes over, the punk kid comes up and I'm filling out a hole log asks if he could go get some lunch. I asked him why he didn't bring one, he said he usually does not work this long. I told him he could but tomorrow he better bring one and expect to work. 

Another blaster from our company arrives the next day to help me load. He is a very knowledgeable blaster who strongly lacks a work ethic. His biggest contribution is his insight and knowledge not much else. He asks if I could help him this weekend get his 44 Magnum on track. I agreed because he did teach me a lot, not that he was my mentor but he offered supplemental knowledge that has overall benefited me greatly. 

He comes this past Saturday with a nice looking Smith and Wesson performance center 10" that's ported. Not what I would choose but regardless, I have him shoot 6 rounds, 25, 50 and 75 yards, since it was what I practiced with for hunting revolvers. My sight-in target is simple, a 4x4 piece of plywood on some 2x4's and the plywood is painted orange. He shoots and I had four targets up covering the plywood. We walk up and nothing, so I suggest at 25 he fires, his first shot I saw it his second shot I stopped him. 

I pointed out his " splash " in the snow and got " what's splash " so I explained it to him. I ask to shoot it and I put four rounds around the dot. So I watch him shoot and he's doing this flinch/jerk motion that made me question if he might be having a seizure. 

So I did what I thought I should do and told him flat out I don't think he knows how to shoot. He was slightly offended and so I offer him my 445 loaded with 44 Magnums. Again up and to the right, it's not the gun and not the ammo. So I gave him a quick demonstration. I coached him and got him to where at 25 yards he was wounding a quart paint can lid and 5 outta 6 he could hit a paper plate at 50. He left overjoyed. 

So Monday comes and the old man says he heard I helped the other blaster out. I gave a nod and offered a sympathetic chuckle. He says to me " you gotta remember there's gun guys and then there's a guy with a gun ". And you know it really struck me at how correct he was. 

I'm sure all of us can rattle off a few people we know who given a violent situation would be cannon fodder. Or those who go out to the range and do a magazine dump and might hit their target. Granted I have plowed my shooting area well, I have always had access to guns, ammo and a place to practice, I had in my mind the best mentor any little kid could ask for. But there's such a difference, I could usually tell in no time at all if someone was the quintessential gun guy type or not. 

Maybe it was enlightening for me to hear someone else say what I've always thought. Anyways until next time everyone, don't forget a toilet brush is not a good substitution for toilet paper and keep your powder and your blast holes dry.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Gave up trying to help people few years back with shooting. Not wasting time anymore.

It's amazing the amount of idiots that don't have a clue, yet have a gun. Now after the last few months I can only imagine how bad it's gotten.


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## Chiefster23 (Feb 5, 2016)

There is some merit to requiring new gun owners to take some professional instruction prior to getting their first weapon. I AM NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH THIS REQUIREMENT! I’m just saying that I’ve seen some complete idiots at the range who obviously had no idea what they were doing. Everyone would have been safer had these folks had some basic training. But instituting this as a requirement would be yet another obstacle the gun grabbers could use to infringe on 2A rights.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

You're not wrong but these days, anyone willing to hold/own/shoot a gun needs to be appreciated and encouraged. Despite record gun sales, the American 'gun culture' appears to be on the decline.


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## jeffh (Apr 6, 2020)

All All I know is that there is a ton more new gun owners this year than there was in previous years. That might make range trips to unsupervised gun ranges rather nerve wracking for those of us gun guys. 

For the For the gun community as a whole, the influx of new people is a good thing. However, these people need some training.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

jeffh said:


> All All I know is that there is a ton more new gun owners this year than there was in previous years. That might make range trips to unsupervised gun ranges rather nerve wracking for those of us gun guys.
> 
> For the For the gun community as a whole, the influx of new people is a good thing. However, these people need some training.


I would call that a _Teachable Moment_.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

I have to start by dispensing useless fatherly advice, so don’t take it personally.
The kid should step down to a 9mm, or a .357 Magnum. One of my early guns was a .44 Magnum Super Blackhawk, but another early gun was a .22 Super Single Six. The Kid should be advised to step it down.
But if you had him hitting a paper plate at 50 yards, that was a feat.



> .
> So I did what I thought I should do and told him flat out I don't think he knows how to shoot. He was slightly offended and so I offer him my 445 loaded with 44 Magnums. Again up and to the right, it's not the gun and not the ammo. So I gave him a quick demonstration. I coached him and got him to where at 25 yards he was wounding a quart paint can lid and 5 outta 6 he could hit a paper plate at 50. He left overjoyed.


Well, I have my quote below my entry, which seems backwards somehow. So I will just blame the new software, instead of my stupid self. 🤓 I stopped trying to fix it, because I will only go from bad to worse.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

MisterMills357 said:


> I have to start by dispensing useless fatherly advice, so don’t take it personally.
> The kid should step down to a 9mm, or a .357 Magnum. One of my early guns was a .44 Magnum Super Blackhawk, but another early gun was a .22 Super Single Six. The Kid should be advised to step it down.
> But if you had him hitting a paper plate at 50 yards, that was a feat.
> 
> ...


Just hit reply and it will act like it used to.

About the time Dirty Harry made the .44 Mag popular, I owned one. A gun magazine did a review at the time and said it was a wrist wrenching experience. I found that to be true. I had bought it before the movie came out and sold it for a profit.


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## MisterMills357 (Apr 15, 2015)

inceptor said:


> Just hit reply and it will act like it used to.
> 
> About the time Dirty Harry made the .44 Mag popular, I owned one. A gun magazine did a review at the time and said it was a wrist wrenching experience. I found that to be true. I had bought it before the movie came out and sold it for a profit.


I had Super Blackhawk 44 , when I was 22 years old, and I can’t recall having to struggle with it.

I can recall my 357 Security Six spitting out to the side, and it may have been the primer spitting, because the hammer spring was stout. But so was the trigger pull, that was a hard dang trigger.

And it had small grips so it twisted in my hand. But still I don’t recall having a problem holding it on target, or holding on to it.


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## 2020 Convert (Dec 24, 2020)

It scares me the people that have thought about getting a gun or gotten one in 2020.

Had a conversation with a liberal couple who live just outside of a small village. They were telling me how they were thinking about it. I looked at him (because he is a bleeding heart) and said “Are you willing to use it to protect your family? And he hesitated. I told him not to get one because he hesitated. I know she has shot before when she was young and I think she would.

A friend of 36 years, who has come around to more conservative way of thinking told me he bought a shotgun and was going for his CC permit. I told him “Then please make sure your wife knows how to use them.” I added ”Even my liberal wife has a .380 in the nightstand, is actually pretty good with it.”

You can only give people so much advice. Hopefully they take good advice.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, there are options. I don't know if your area teaches weapons, but there was a teacher at my college (this was about a month before the Pilgrims came to Madison, WI.) that taught something similar to those karate' movies. Back at that time the idea of having a weapon in the City of Madison could you arrested or simply neutered.

I found a fencing coach, and his opinion was that epees and sharp knives handled just the same. He taught me "all eight positions" of a full-sized paper 'enemy.' I can assure you that the *position of your feet* are more valuable than your hands. Coupled with a very sharp knife that flashed against the evening moon I can say I never had to draw blood.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

*Dirty Harry made the .44 Mag popular, I owned one. I had bought it before the movie came out and sold it for a profit.*

Yeah, all of my buddies bought the same pistol. I think I was the last one to purchase one. Heck, I had to pay 150 dollars for that nickel-plated revolver--not to mention finding brass, casting rock hard bullets only two at a time with my blocks, and experimenting with lesser powder measures. I finally realized that Elmer Keith had found all the secret stuff long before I was born! 

As you probably found out, using a full measure of powder threw the bullets all over the range, with very few hitting any target we hung up. One mistake I made was casting the bullets at the rear of my house. It seems all of my lazy friends could smell castings and decided I was an easy mark...


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

Yep, there are Gun Guys and there are Guys with Guns for sure and you can spot them a mile away real quick! I didnt buy my AR...I BUILT IT and did it for a fraction of the price! I spend more on ammo and hours at the range every year than I did on my AR. But then again...I can hit what I shoot at.

As flustrating as those types are Hemi45 makes a great valid point. We owe it to the future of our Hobby/Sport to do what ever we can to make these Guys with Gun into Gun Guys/Ladies.


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## RedSky (Sep 5, 2021)

Sincere, humble desire should be encouraged not gainsayed but needs to be forged and tempered. We see the same in other components of society. Medicine, engineering, whatever... people merely with tools, vs. people who understand the tools. Some of the former have unproductive or destructive motivations. Some have potential. Mentors need to sort the wheat from the chaff and cultivate the former.


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## Grim (Nov 24, 2021)

I can relate with that for sure. I looked in a loaded gun once.This old guy comes to a competition every now or then, takes his shots, and then simply turnes to the waiting guys, hot gun the hand.
What me shocked more was that it happended again and the RO only said "Do it again and I take your gun away."
Did not went there again.


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## Wannak (12 mo ago)

"I believe that gun owners need to undergo special training. A pistol, a hunting knife, and a rifle need to be treated with great responsibility. We have all witnessed cases when weapons fell into the hands of unhealthy people and caused harm to others. Stores should also be careful who they sell weapons to, in what sizes, and whom. I always buy pistols from ballachy.com because I know that it is attentive to its customers. I can't say that I support the prohibition of carrying weapons, but we all have to be careful and take responsibility for our actions."


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## One Shot (Oct 25, 2021)

Wannak said:


> I believe that gun owners need to undergo special training.


I have to give my LGS credit when a new gun owner buys a gun the LGS will take the new gun owner into their indoor range and go over safety and how to shoot, I've seen guys who claim to be shooters put a hole in the overhead or hit the ground a foot in front of their foot on the range doing rapid fire and practicing drawing from a holster.


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