# Trophy Hunting?



## Mish

Can hunting go too far? Is there ever a time where it is ethically wrong to kill animals for sport? I don't know how I feel about it, but I know it has a lot of people upset. =(
This guy probably wishes he stayed home.
Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist - Telegraph


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## Prepared One

Well, I don't believe killing to hang it on the wall is right unless your eating the meat or using the animal for survival. Most hunters I know hold these values as well. Now trophy wives on the other hand..........are another matter.


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## Auntie

Cecil was a collared and protected animal that was baited to leave his protected area. It was not a situation of my family is hungry so in my opinion it was despicable and wrong on so many levels. POACHING IS WRONG!


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## Swedishsocialist

There are many good reasons to hunt. but never just for sports/trohpy. That is just wrong


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## Mish

I will never understand the thrill of trophy hunting. I get the whole over populated and need food part but just for the fun of it, nope.

Hunter Rebecca Francis posing with giraffe - Business Insider


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## Slippy

I may have missed it in the article but it appears that this was a legal hunt? Secondarily, I don't care much about what happens in Africa, I have my hands full trying to get the United States of America back on track. Africa can keep their slavery and diseases over there, thank you very much.


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## NotTooProudToHide

I've thought long and hard about this, and I have to agree this is sickening. My own personal beliefs are that the only reasons valid for taking an animals life is for food or to eliminate a danger/nuisance. I'd take this a step even further, the fact that its a trophy hunt wouldn't bother me as much if it was done in a sporting manner. By sporting manner I mean you scout for the lions and you stalk the lions without baiting or other similar techniques. Luring a lion that's wearing a radio collar off protected land by baiting is just plain disgusting.


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## Slippy

One more thing, Animals like Trees have a lifespan. 

Hunting for sport is more than just putting a head on a wall. Do some research into Environmental and specifically Game Biology (Deer Management is pretty common in may area so its an example that I'll use.)

So much good can be done for the animals as well as for humans with good game management practices which may not always include eating the animals that are harvested. Illness and genetic faults can be managed.

Be responsible and obey the laws but understand that human interaction into the harvest of animals or trees is generally a great thing (at least here in the US)


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## TG

I'd like to use my nice curved dagger to carve out his balls.


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## tinkerhell

I'm in favor of all trophy hunting so long as the meat is consumed as well. In my books, if you aren't eating it, you shouldn't be shooting it.


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## Kauboy

Some choose different ways to preserve the beauty of nature.
A trophy animal mounted on a wall can be admired by so many more than the live animal would have been in the wild, and will last far longer.
Man was given dominion over the land and the animals. We should strive to be responsible in our duty to preserve God's creation, but that doesn't mean we can't take advantage of our position, and display the wonders of this world for more to see and admire.

Poaching is rightly despicable, as it adversely affects the animal population for man's greed instead of a desire to preserve its beauty.
There is a big difference between poaching and trophy hunting.

If a man hunts to feed his family, he is fine by me.
If a man hunts to show off an outstanding example of a species, he is fine by me.
If a man kills to satiate bloodlust, to torture, to mutilate... he should suffer his own actions.


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## NotTooProudToHide

Slippy your exactly right. It doesn't bother me when an animal is taken and is used. To use your example about deer, overpopulation causes issues with disease, food sources and quiet frankly is a safety hazard due to the number of accidents involving vehicle vs deer. Further most hunters either consume the meat from animals they take, give it to family members, or donate it to charitable causes to feed the hungry.


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## Farmboyc

From the dentist prospective it was a legitimate hunt. 1/2 mile from a preserve seems like a reasonable distance to me.

Kinda sounds like the 2 issues were the corruption of the tag system snd the fact that it was a tourist attraction that died.

I'm not opposed to trophy hunting primarily because these tags are often auctioned off at ridiculous sums that go back to habitat conservation. My big issue is when game laws are changed to favor trophy hunting by the rich and keep a local from hunting for the freezer.


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## Maine-Marine

He did not know he was shooting cecil. 

There is a reason to hunt older lions - they have a pack but do not produce as many off spring. 

hunting older lions, rhinos, etc..actually helps the population - but do not tell anybody - it would ruin the liberals rant about guns and needless hunting

Your challenge for today - do a little research before you try and act like an expert


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## tango

Canned hunts should not be legal.
I have never been a "trophy hunter'.
I have never measured a rack nor scored one, however, every animal that I have ever killed is a trophy.


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## Kauboy

For those who want retribution for the animal: Elephant kills professional big game hunter in Zimbabwe - Telegraph


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## 1skrewsloose

I guess it depends on the situation. At work a few folks own a section of land. They don't take spikes or 4 pointers. It has to be big or no shot. This may be against what the DNR wants for sustainable population, but they harvest what they want on their own property, given the respective tags. jmo.


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## Medic33

hunting for trophy is something I never understood -my idea of this is scouring a yard sale for a 1935 world championship underwater basket weaving trophy 
I am a firm believer in hunting for food or protection( debatable depending on the critter) and use as much of the animal you can.
even hunting the older pack leader is not valid because if it is still tough and strong enough to maintain that position in the wild it must be one tuff ass SOB and think/believe it should reproduce as much as it wants.
and Africa can keep it's problems to it's self that place has been messed up by people since the first human walked it.


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## Chipper

The dentist got what he paid for period. Did he pay a little extra for the perfect trophy? Did the guides go the extra miles for a fee? Was the jerk so focused on the kill with his hunting buddies he didn't care? Lots of unanswered questions.

I've hunted with people that the thrill of the kill and who shot the most or biggest was the only thing. Competition and greed were the driving force and the prey wasn't given a second thought. 

All these hunting shows don't help. They all glorify the thrill of the kill. The bigger the better for the TV show. Whether it was a baited or fenced sacrifice for the great hunter they somehow always kill something. Yippee. So the expectations are high and a extra dollar isn't an issue. A successful hunt is all that matters.


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## csi-tech

I am an avid deer hunter and I have several nice mounts on my walls. To kill simply for a trophy is disgusting. I have found dead deer without heads on my property. It infuriates me. It is wasteful and contemptuous. I ate every tender, juicy pound of every deer I have killed or gave it to someone who wanted or needed it. I am also willing to kill for purposes of population control, depredation or for humane reasons. This guy is a POS of the first order and gives hunters a bad name.


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## Slippy

Next question to the anti-hunters;

Is it OK to hunt coyote, bobcats, mountain lion, wolves (or other "predators") or large feral hogs and not eat the meat but mount the trophy? (Yes, I have seen feral hogs harvested that I didn't and wouldn't eat...just too stanky and nasty!) 

I thought seriously about doing a full body mount on the first coyote that I shot because it looked cool. (But it was too expensive and Mrs S nixed the idea) 

So what about shooting nasty ass Armadillo's for fun? I know people who mount Armadillo...I wouldn't and I damn sure wouldn't eat one...But I've popped a few in my earlier years and see nothing wrong with that? 

But by harvesting those animals, does it not create a safer and more stable environment for humans and other animals to live?


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## NotTooProudToHide

Slippy said:


> Next question to the anti-hunters;
> 
> Is it OK to hunt coyote, bobcats, mountain lion, wolves (or other "predators") or large feral hogs and not eat the meat but mount the trophy? (Yes, I have seen feral hogs harvested that I didn't and wouldn't eat...just too stanky and nasty!)
> 
> I thought seriously about doing a full body mount on the first coyote that I shot because it looked cool. (But it was too expensive and Mrs S nixed the idea)
> 
> So what about shooting nasty ass Armadillo's for fun? I know people who mount Armadillo...I wouldn't and I damn sure wouldn't eat one...But I've popped a few in my earlier years and see nothing wrong with that?
> 
> But by harvesting those animals, does it not create a safer and more stable environment for humans and other animals to live?


I don't have a problem with people taking nuisance animals that destroy property, injure or kill livestock, or threaten humans. That includes coyotes, feral hogs, stray dogs, feral cats, groundhogs, nutria, or whatever type of animal is causing problems. I do think it should be done as humanly as possible with care taken to give a quick death and not prolong suffering.


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## Hemi45

I'm not anti-hunting but this is bullshit. I don't like *this kill* ... not one bit!


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## Arklatex

First of all I'm kinda impressed that anyone killed a big ole lion with a bow...

And I am generally of the mindset that if you kill'em you grill'em. But that said I've killed a LOT of critters and not eaten them. Currently I'm at war with coyotes, hogs and gophers. Sometimes I harvest a little hog but most times I donate the meat to the local "hunters fo da hungry" program that processes and distributes the meat to the hungry government leeches. The above critters are extremely overpopulated and need to be thinned out. They are detrimental to the ecosystem.

As for trophy hunting, as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on the ecosystem and the meat goes to somebody. No problem. Killing an animal just to cut its head off and leaving the good parts to rot in the sun is just wrong in my book.


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## csi-tech

It was killed with a rifle, the bow and arrow merely wounded it.


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## csi-tech

My wife and I discussed a permit that was granted in the Kalahari to kill one, juvenile, male elephant. The hunters stood by in a village at night and when it crashed through the bush they shot it in the brain case with a .416 double. She thought it was reprehensible. When I went back to the beginning of the show where they explained this adolescent rogue had killed several people and destroyed crops she was a little more understanding. When it fed several villages for a month, she realized that to everything there is a time and a purpose under heaven.

Killing this lion violated the spirit of the hunt in my book. It is not a trophy I would ever want.

The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon the Earth. Upon every creature that scurries upon the land, upon every fish that swims in the water and upon every fowl that soareth upon the air........Into your hand are they delivered.


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## 1skrewsloose

csi-tech said:


> It was killed with a rifle, the bow and arrow merely wounded it.


Years and years ago I read from a African guide that if you shoot a lion, and put it down, shoot it again! Have to see if I can find the info! Seems like it was a Swedish fellow held in high esteem for for hunting on the dark continent. May have been Mas hunting there, not sure.


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## Slippy

Has anyone been to the Cabela's Flag Ship Store in Sidney, NE?

WOW! Is all I can say, the collection of North American animals is wonderful and museum quality. Who knows if all of the mounted animals were consumed, I have no idea. But I can tell you, my family and I studied and stared at the (hundreds maybe??) of animals in their collection. Absolutely amazing.


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## Camel923

Think about this...How close do you get to a lion or polar bear to use a bow. If you miss or screw up you just might be lunch. The guides are probably armed but who can guarantee what happens in the blink of an eye. Yes it is a thrill seeker adrenaline rush. If he had legal permits and licensed guides, this is no real issue only am emotional one. 

Some people get warm and mushy over cougars Amd wolves here, wanting to reintroduce them near humans. Our ancestors had the good common sense to remove vermin decimating domesticated animals or humans. 

Permits are generally limited in wild areas to keep game such as lions at sustainable levels, preventing boom crash cycles for long term species preservation.


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## Seneca

I'd have to look at the back story, before I bought into the evil trophy hunter meme.


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## Spice

Prepared One said:


> Well, I don't believe killing to hang it on the wall is right unless your eating the meat or using the animal for survival. Most hunters I know hold these values as well. Now trophy wives on the other hand..........are another matter.


Very different. If you kill the trophy wife, you're in Extra trouble if you hang her on the wall.

(p.s. A guy who marries a woman because he thinks she is a nice fashion accessory is about as admirable as a guy who goes on a canned hunt, shoots his tame, paddock-raised big buck with his expensive super-scoped rifle, and then brags about what a Great Hunter he is.)


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## Quip

I don't take a trophy often but, when I do


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## bigwheel

Mish said:


> Can hunting go too far? Is there ever a time where it is ethically wrong to kill animals for sport? I don't know how I feel about it, but I know it has a lot of people upset. =(
> This guy probably wishes he stayed home.
> Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist - Telegraph


Yes..those who hunt for sport are blood thirsty retarded idiots. Good point. They really piss me off.


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## csi-tech

When I went through Basic SWAT School and later Counter-Sniper and Field craft schools I never forgot a quote that I once read. It rings true for Warriors from every walk of life. Why hunt lions when the true predators among us are lurking in the shadows?

_*"There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
*_
*Ernest Hemingway*

Abdulazeez, ISIS, Al Qaeda, James Holmes, John Russell Houser, Dylan Kleibold and Eric Harris.....The list goes on and on. There is far too much hate and sickness that we can focus on. _If_ we are up to the task.


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## PaulS

If you hunt in Africa the meat is always used to feed villages. You are not allowed to take the meat out of the country.

Hunting, for me is a spiritual experience. I know where the food I eat came from. I know that It gave its life to sustain mine - no less than the steer or pig or chicken that you buy at the store. But you are so removed from the life of the animal that you consume that you take it for granted. I never take my food for granted. It gave its life so that I can live - that is gift to be respected.


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## Auntie

Maine-Marine said:


> He did not know he was shooting cecil.
> 
> There is a reason to hunt older lions - they have a pack but do not produce as many off spring.
> 
> hunting older lions, rhinos, etc..actually helps the population - but do not tell anybody - it would ruin the liberals rant about guns and needless hunting
> 
> Your challenge for today - do a little research before you try and act like an expert


Let me be VERY clear, I believe in hunting for food. If I had the ability I would hunt for meat for the family. I also believe that hunting to reduce an overpopulation is important to maintain an ecological balance. If there is an animal that is causing problems for a land owner then they should protect their livestock, family and property. If that means killing the animal and it is not something that is edible you should still kill it and dispose of the remains.

Right now I have moose, elk, deer, and hog (not fond of that one) in my freezer. I traded peach preserves, apple jelly, salsa, copper pennies (carrots), dried fruits and a loaf of home made bread every week for 6 months for the moose and elk meat.

Here are some quotes that you may have missed when you read the article.



> Dr Andrew Loveridge, one of the principal researchers on the project, told the publication that Cecil and another male lion named Jericho led two prides with six lionesses and a dozen young cubs, and he feared for the safety of the cubs now Cecil had been killed.
> "Jericho as a single male will be unable to defend the two prides and cubs from new males that invade the territory. This is what we most often see happening in these cases. Infanticide is the most likely outcome," he said.





> Mr Palmer has also run into legal woes. In 2008, court records show, he pleaded guilty to making a false statement to federal wildlife officials concerning the exact location of the slaying of a black bear during a guided hunt in Wisconsin. He was sentenced to a year probation.





> "If you're a local and you kill an animal without a licence you get between two and five years in prison."


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## Maine-Marine

Auntie said:


> Let me be VERY clear, I believe in hunting for food. If I had the ability I would hunt for meat for the family. I also believe that hunting to reduce an overpopulation is important to maintain an ecological balance. If there is an animal that is causing problems for a land owner then they should protect their livestock, family and property. If that means killing the animal and it is not something that is edible you should still kill it and dispose of the remains.
> 
> Right now I have moose, elk, deer, and hog (not fond of that one) in my freezer. I traded peach preserves, apple jelly, salsa, copper pennies (carrots), dried fruits and a loaf of home made bread every week for 6 months for the moose and elk meat.
> 
> Here are some quotes that you may have missed when you read the article.
> 
> Dr Andrew Loveridge, one of the principal researchers on the project, told the publication that Cecil and another male lion named Jericho led two prides with six lionesses and a dozen young cubs, and he feared for the safety of the cubs now Cecil had been killed.
> "Jericho as a single male will be unable to defend the two prides and cubs from new males that invade the territory. This is what we most often see happening in these cases. Infanticide is the most likely outcome," he said.
> 
> Mr Palmer has also run into legal woes. In 2008, court records show, he pleaded guilty to making a false statement to federal wildlife officials concerning the exact location of the slaying of a black bear during a guided hunt in Wisconsin. He was sentenced to a year probation.
> "If you're a local and you kill an animal without a license you get between two and five years in prison."


your point?


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## Maine-Marine

He was on a legal hunt. I doubt he went over to kill cecil - I am betting that like me he never heard of Cecil until a little while ago. 

some of you sound like the people that want to keep people from having guns because they DO NOT LIKE IT. You know - since I DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT OR LIKE - YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO IT


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## Maine-Marine

Auntie said:


> Here are some quotes that you may have missed when you read the article.
> 
> "Jericho as a single male will be unable to defend the two prides and cubs from new males that invade the territory. This is what we most often see happening in these cases. Infanticide is the most likely outcome," he said.
> 
> How do we KNOW THIS will happen
> 
> Mr Palmer has also run into legal woes. In 2008, court records show, he pleaded guilty to making a false statement to federal wildlife officials concerning the exact location of the slaying of a black bear during a guided hunt in Wisconsin. He was sentenced to a year probation.
> 
> he was on a guided hunt - chances are he did not know where he was - also many people plead guilty and the state and federal govern allow it because neither side wants to spend time or money trying to get or defend. Seems you are JUDGING him for something that happened in the past -
> "If you're a local and you kill an animal without a licence you get between two and five years in prison."
> 
> he was not a local and he had a license.. ain't that a kick in the butt


see comments above


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## Auntie

Maine-Marine said:


> your point?


None just trying to boost my post count. /sarcasm


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## Maine-Marine

I wonder if people would feel different if the lions name was Fred or Carl.

Cecil is sort of a NICE name a FRIENDLY name... What if the doctor had killed Carlos the lion or Diablo the Lion


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## hawgrider

Mish said:


> Can hunting go too far? Is there ever a time where it is ethically wrong to kill animals for sport? I don't know how I feel about it, but I know it has a lot of people upset. =(
> This guy probably wishes he stayed home.
> Cecil the lion's killer revealed as American dentist - Telegraph


When I hunt for trophy's I don't need a weapon.:laughhard:


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## Mish

Maine-Marine said:


> I wonder if people would feel different if the lions name was Fred or Carl.
> 
> Cecil is sort of a NICE name a FRIENDLY name... What if the doctor had killed Carlos the lion or Diablo the Lion


I don't really understand where all your hostility comes from on this subject. It seems as though almost everyone that has posted in this thread is completely fine with hunting. Most people are also ok with big game hunting as long as the animal isn't wasted.

Now this dentist, you know, I do believe he's getting the brunt of a hate campaign. Social media has been fuming about this subject for a longtime. Do I think he flew to Africa to kill that specific lion...LOL NO. Did he know that he hired bad guides...maybe. Did he know he was luring an animal out of a protected area....ahhh...maybe. He's been hunting big game before in Africa, I'm sure he was educated on what he was doing.


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## Mish




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## Arklatex

I have to say that I never heard of Cecil the lion before this thread either... I don't think it's a good idea to humanize animals either. Like the comments made about how the Cubs in the pride will be killed when the next alpha male takes over. That's nature and that is the way that lions are. You can't blame the hunter for the deaths the Cubs may have coming... Feel sorry for them if you wish but if you want to hate anything about it then hate the Lions natural instincts. Cecil could just as easily been killed by another lion since he was getting a little long in the tooth. Most male lions live 10-14 years in the wild.


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## Slippy

Here is the latest article from CNN. I think some of you may especially enjoy watching and listening to the video with the CNN host and another homosexual speculate on the situation regarding Carlos the Dead Lion. 
U.S. dentist wanted for killing Cecil the lion - CNN.com

The Dentist, now wanted for questioning by the Zimbabwe authorities has evidently gone into hiding. (Personally I'd tell the "Zimbabwe Authorities" what they can do with their questions...);
Cecil the lion killer Walter J Palmer goes into hiding as Zimbabwe police want to speak to him | Daily Mail Online

And this just in...
Landscaper gets a year in jail for running over a family of baby ducks with his lawnmower;
Landscaper Sentenced To Jail For Running Over Ducks « CBS Miami

And lastly, the US is going to shat; 3000 babies/day are being murdered in the womb in the US, hundreds of inner city black children are being murdered per year, thousands of crimes are being committed monthly by illegal aliens in the US and many of them are given sanctuary or simply being deported and allowed to re-enter to commit more crimes; riots have occurred where damage to people's property and livelihood has been met with no consequence....


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## Mish

Slippy, I saw the duckie article before. It's a shame...he seems like such a good guy. "Falbo pleaded guilty to domestic battery in an unrelated incident about a month before"


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## Slippy

Mish said:


> Slippy, I saw the duckie article before. It's a shame...he seems like such a good guy. "Falbo pleaded guilty to domestic battery in an unrelated incident about a month before"


Freakin' landscapers; baby duck killers, wife beaters and illegals every-damn-one of them! :stick:

Lesson to the youngsters; Learn how to mow your own yards damnit!


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## Maine-Marine

Slippy said:


> And this just in...
> Landscaper gets a year in jail for running over a family of baby ducks with his lawnmower;


I have long been an advocate for requiring licenses for lawnmowers. Not everybody in American needs a lawnmower - heck you even bu them online and at yard sales.. we need to do something... THINK OF THE CHILDREN


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## Maine-Marine

Mish said:


> I don't really understand where all your hostility comes from on this subject.


I guess I have to start using a sarcasm hashtag...


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## Slippy

More outrage, attacks against his property and death threats against Dr Palmer. Hell, even calls for his balls to be cut off with a curved knife! 
Cara Delevingne blasts Cecil the lion?s killer Dr Walter Palmer | Daily Mail Online


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## Slippy

Maine-Marine said:


> I guess I have to start using a sarcasm hashtag...


I know what a hashmark is and I know what "playing tag" is...but what is a hashtag?


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## chemikle

I had hide of snow leopard , big deer head i really dont know which deer was it , head of big boar and tiger hide which was gifted to my uncle , but most of them got spoiled because of not treating them well and we threw them away now i still have a big bear hide which was killed by my godfather in chechnya , i have deer horns and big moose horns i also have ibex horns killed by my father Capra caucasica horns also killed by my father and i have 3-4 rupicapra horns , ilove trophys


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## Mad Trapper

1) You are going to eat it

2) It is doing damage to your property, livestock, pets, and/or plants.

3) It is trying to do damage to yourself

4) It is sick, injured diseased


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## Maine-Marine

Mad Trapper said:


> 1) You are going to eat it
> 
> 2) It is doing damage to your property, livestock, pets, and/or plants.
> 
> 3) It is trying to do damage to yourself
> 
> 4) It is sick, injured diseased


5. you enjoy the hunt

6. it is legal

7. you have a license

8. you do not harm any person


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## Mish

maine-marine said:


> i guess i have to start using a sarcasm hashtag...


#gotit
#needscoffee
#cranky
#gobacktobed
#needsavacation
#smile
#humpday
#hehe


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## Maine-Marine

nobody needs:

-a AR-15
-a Ak-47
-to hunt lions
-carry a pistol
-a fast sports car


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## Camel923

Funny at the outrage about a dead lion. Meaning while ISIS is crucifying Christians and throwing gays to their death from roof tops. Here we mass murder the unborn. The morals of this society are bass ackwards.


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## Mish

Camel923 said:


> Funny at the outrage about a dead lion. Meaning while ISIS is crucifying Christians and throwing gays to their death from roof tops. Here we mass murder the unborn. The morals of this society are bass ackwards.


This is just the flavor of the day, my friend. We can get back to killing babies and Christians tomorrow. Or even better, Trump's ex-wife suggesting rape in the marriage. Oooooooo!! Fun!!


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## Mish




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## Maine-Marine

Mish said:


> Trump's ex-wife suggesting rape in the marriage. Oooooooo!! Fun!!


careful - - - -


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## rice paddy daddy

I am not anti hunting, there is deer in our freezer at the moment.
But to kill an animal just for the sake of killing it, or to build your ego, or to compensate for a lack of manhood, is disgustingly wrong.
The reason this "man" was able to put an arrow in the lion was not due to superior hunting skill but by the fact the lion was human friendly, according to witnesses.

I wonder how many hunters would give up the sport if the animals could shoot back? I'll wager a whole lot of them are wussy enough to quit.


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## Maine-Marine

rice paddy daddy said:


> I am not anti hunting, there is deer in our freezer at the moment.
> But to kill an animal just for the sake of killing it, or to build your ego, or to compensate for a lack of manhood, is disgustingly wrong.
> The reason this "man" was able to put an arrow in the lion was not due to superior hunting skill but by the fact the lion was human friendly, according to witnesses.
> 
> I wonder how many hunters would give up the sport if the animals could shoot back? I'll wager a whole lot of them are wussy enough to quit.


If deer could shot back -I would stop hunting

Pheasant on the other hand are bad shots so I would still hunting birds.

My ego would be hurt of a deer shot me in the arse - what sort of story do you tell... ya it was a 12 pointer but he was a faster draw then me...


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## Pir8fan

I was raised where killing animals for any reason other than food or protection was flat out wrong. Merely killing in order to mount a head on a wall is completely wrong on all levels. Killing an animal is a very serious business and should never be considered "fun". Hunting is fun but the killing is serious.


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## Maine-Marine

Pir8fan said:


> I was raised where killing animals for any reason other than food or protection was flat out wrong. Merely killing in order to mount a head on a wall is completely wrong on all levels. Killing an animal is a very serious business and should never be considered "fun". Hunting is fun but the killing is serious.


I guess I have to stop celebrating when I get a pheasant


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## rice paddy daddy

Pir8fan said:


> I was raised where killing animals for any reason other than food or protection was flat out wrong. Merely killing in order to mount a head on a wall is completely wrong on all levels. Killing an animal is a very serious business and should never be considered "fun". Hunting is fun but the killing is serious.


When I was a young boy and into my teenage years I killed birds and other animals just for the hell of it. First with a BB gun and then with my very own 22 rifle.
I had my epiphany when I was on the receiving end of indirect fire, helpless, just like those animals, that I began to understand. Since then I have felt just like you describe. 
I have killed animals since then, but only with good reason.
Trying to prove I'm Billy Badass by shooting something that can't shoot back is not even on my radar screen.


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## Mad Trapper

Maine-Marine said:


> nobody needs:
> 
> -a AR-15
> -a Ak-47
> -to hunt lions
> -carry a pistol
> -a fast sports car


I take exception. An AR or AK can be dandy hunting rifles, but I prefer my bolts or M14/M1A platform. I've hunted woodchucks with a M29 SW. They taste good too, grass/vegetable fed.

I don't need a license to take game or varmints doing damage to my property. I was sorry to do so, but the big fat bunny was getting too bold and into my food, the pellet gun solved that, and it was tasty. Recycled part of my garden with that, yesterday.


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## Tennessee

I use to be a hunter a long time ago, I would kill anything that flew, walked, crawled or swam. And I ate most of it and what I didn’t I gave to some else to eat. But I didn’t hunt/kill for the food, I did it for the hunt/fun. I have a hard time folks bashing trophy hunters because they don’t eat their kill. In this day in time most folks don’t need to hunt to survive. So don’t BS yourself it’s all about the hunt and the killing not weather you eat it or hang it on the wall. Own it!


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## Slippy

Mish said:


>


Just in case I ever "Thought" about watching this twit...I won't now. (Did he almost cry?)


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## Slippy

Tennessee said:


> I use to be a hunter a long time ago, I would kill anything that flew, walked, crawled or swam. And I ate most of it and what I didn't I gave to some else to eat. But I didn't hunt/kill for the food, I did it for the hunt/fun. I have a hard time folks bashing trophy hunters because they don't eat their kill. In this day in time most folks don't need to hunt to survive. So don't BS yourself it's all about the hunt and the killing not weather you eat it or hang it on the wall. Own it!


A nice dose of reality from my man Tennessee! :encouragement:


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## Mad Trapper

Tennessee said:


> I use to be a hunter a long time ago, I would kill anything that flew, walked, crawled or swam. And I ate most of it and what I didn't I gave to some else to eat. But I didn't hunt/kill for the food, I did it for the hunt/fun. I have a hard time folks bashing trophy hunters because they don't eat their kill. In this day in time most folks don't need to hunt to survive. So don't BS yourself it's all about the hunt and the killing not weather you eat it or hang it on the wall. Own it!


I am sorry but I don't agree with you.

I'm still learning to be a better hunter after over 40 years. I find a 120 pd does more tasty than a 200pd buck. I have my share of wallhangers and tanned most of their skins. What IS about the hunt is learning about nature, living in the woods, and what you are hunting. Some of my best hunts I went home without any meat, but those crafty animals taught me a lot more for the next time in the woods.

I grew up on my grandparents farm with 11 uncles and aunts, and they hunted trapped and fished so no one went hungry. The farm helped too, never out of work and we raised our own vegetables and animals. I never relished killing a chicken, cow or lamb I rasied.

I am sorry for you that it is about killing, I say a prayer and give my respects for the animals and birds I harvest.

I have ran off a lot of trophy hunters who have no respect for my land nor the animals living on it, they are not welcome. Slobs who leave their offal and spoor and cut my fences.


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## Slippy

Mad Trapper,

Tennessee didn't say you or name anyone else, I think he was just making a point that a heck of a lot of trophy hunting is done nowadays and most if it is done for the sport of the hunt. 

I have no doubt from knowing and reading your posts that you are the real deal and I respect that very much. But there are many others that don't hold the same view as you do in regards to hunting (legally) and they are not all bad people. 

And I do agree that no one needs to poach on land that does not belong to them, that is 100% wrong. 

Respectfully! 
Slip:joyous:


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## rice paddy daddy

He has violated wildlife laws before. He is a felon.

Watch the NBC video to see why many are outraged. This was not just any lion.................

Cecil the Lion Killer Walter James Palmer Has Bear-Related Felony Record - NBC News


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## Farmboyc

Damn sounds like this dude is loaded. I should have become a dentist. 
Stupid guidance counselor and her career advice.


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## Maine-Marine

rice paddy daddy said:


> He has violated wildlife laws before. He is a felon.
> 
> Watch the NBC video to see why many are outraged. This was not just any lion.................
> 
> Cecil the Lion Killer Walter James Palmer Has Bear-Related Felony Record - NBC News


now they are going to dig up everything little thing on this guy and hound him until he is ruined... over a 13 year old lion... lions live to be 10 - 14 years...


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## Maine-Marine

I know a guy that shot a deer on the wrong side of the road because he was confused about the Zones

and I know another guy that shot a buck because he thought it was a doe.. it had a small spike on one side

and my grandfather once shot two deer - after he fired teh first time the deer was still standing there...he fired again - ended up there were two deer standing side by side


this dentist was taken to a lion, for which he had a license.... What did he do wrong..... 

Now we know he was fined for fishing without a license in the past and paid a lady over a sexual harassment suit.. none of which is really related to this case but lets dig up all the trash because people never change....


I am so sick of this story...


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## SecretPrepper

How many babies were murdered before they could take thier first breath today. I could care less about a stupid cat that had 2 years at best left in him. This cat would have been Long dead if it wasn't so well cared for. If they broke the rules then the should have to pay for thier crimes but when/how did a cat take center stage over everything else going on. All this makes me want to punch a liberal and a kitten.:!:


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## Maine-Marine

SecretPrepper said:


> How many babies were murdered before they could take their first breath today. I could care less about a stupid cat that had 2 years at best left in him. This cat would have been Long dead if it wasn't so well cared for. If they broke the rules then the should have to pay for their crimes but when/how did a cat take center stage over everything else going on. All this makes me want to punch a liberal and a kitten.:!:


Exactly!!! (minus kicking the kitten)

I was thinking about going out tonight and killing a few porcupines or some other animal


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## NotTooProudToHide

Maine-Marine said:


> now they are going to dig up everything little thing on this guy and hound him until he is ruined... over a 13 year old lion... lions live to be 10 - 14 years...


Its not over a 13 year old lion, its the fact of how they got the lion and what they did afterwords. I took your suggestion and did a little research, in most big game hunts after the hunter gets his prize the locals come in, nothing is wasted See What Happens to an Elephant After Elephant Hunting. Proposed Lion-Meat Ban Shines Light on Wild-Animal Meat. This isn't this guys first rodeo as far as breaking the laws in regards to hunting so I don't quiet buy his claim of innocence and shifting blame to the professional hunters, although the baiting tactic does seem to be quite frequent Unpleasant Truth About Canned Shooting.

**Edit**
I forgot to include the link of big game hunting gone right but still causing an uproar. I can't find my link but a while back when Rebecca Francis's picture of her after a Giraffe Kill went viral people slammed her and I guess they still are. After reading her side of the story though, it was an older animal that had been kicked out of the herd by a younger male, nothing was wasted. That's hunting done right.
**edit**
http://www.ibtimes.com/rebecca-fran...ky-gervais-tweet-sparks-death-threats-1883997

Given the fact that he's had a few hunting trips to Africa I think he knew exactly what was happening, still though I don't agree with people threatening his life over this. Human life always trumps animal life. If found guilty he does deserve something in the way of monetary punishment and perhaps the loss of his hunting privileges but that's up for the courts to decide. His guides deserve prison time or whatever Zimbabwe determines to be the appropriate penalty.


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## SecretPrepper

MM, you got it wrong kicking is for puppies punching is for kittens. Seriously though, I'm with you this makes me want to go hunting. I'm not a "trophy hunter" but this does make me want to book a trophy hunt. I just can't justify spending that much money for horns or a cape I can't eat. When I can spend far less and have just as much meat in the freezer.


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## Kauboy

SecretPrepper said:


> All this makes me want to punch a liberal and a kitten.:!:


Pweeze, spare teh kittehs.


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## shootbrownelk

The reason this dentist hunts with a bow and arrow now is because he's a felon. He wounded that lion with his bow, they found it 40 hrs. later, still alive. It was killed with a rifle. Was it legal for the PH to shoot this animal or was the paying hunter supposed to try to kill it with his bow? I'm confused. Lots of unanswered questions. Peta calling for him to be hanged was a bit over the top, but most bunny-huggers are a bit touched anyway.


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## tango

Did he know it was a "pet" lion?
Sounds like he booked a hunt with a crooked outfit.
Too bad, he will likely not do well.


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## Murphy

Hunting a lion that is human friendly, luring the lion out of a park by dragging a dead carcass behind a vehicle, is not hunting. 
bet your ass the "guides" knew who Cecil the lion was, an easy target. The guides must of had money riding on the fact if the dentist "took a lion" there would be more $ in it for them. So why not pick an easy target. 

Hunting for a trophy is BS, plain and simple.


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## NotTooProudToHide

Seems like there are some pretty strong opinions over this, and I know mine differs from a few of you. I'd still like to say ultimately almost everybody here is pro hunting, we're splitting hairs on the intent. I'm enjoying the dicussion


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## TacticalCanuck

Hunting is about getting in touch with nature and putting food on the table. This was simply murder.


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## NotTooProudToHide

I've thought about this for a bit and I think I have a fair outcome for all parties involved. In exchange for naming all parties responsible and associated with the illegal hunt Dr Palmer does no jail time, pays a fine, and has his hunting privileges in Zimbabwe revoked. I would like for all his international hunting privileges to be revoked but I don't think there is a court that has that kind of jurisdiction. The professional hunters that organized the hunt, did the baiting, and tried to hide the evidence do whatever jail time the Zimbabwe court determines to be appropriate, are fined the hunting fee that Palmer paid which will be donated to the conservation effort and like Palmer lose all privileges to hunt.


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## Mish

We heard the bad...how about some good?

" many conservationists say that without trophy hunting there would be no lions at all." 
Trophy hunting just part of the story behind declining lion numbers in Africa | Environment | The Guardian


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## Slippy

Now that Cecil is dead, the next Lion in the pride, Jericho, will most likely kill all Cecil's cubs so that he can insert his genes into the pride. (Que the theme from the Lion King..."and the circle of life...")

Cecil the lion's cubs most likely killed by rival lion, say conservationists | Environment | The Guardian


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## Mish

Slippy said:


> Now that Cecil is dead, the next Lion in the pride, Jericho, will most likely kill all Cecil's cubs so that he can insert his genes into the pride. (Que the theme from the Lion King..."and the circle of life...")
> 
> Cecil the lion's cubs most likely killed by rival lion, say conservationists | Environment | The Guardian


Let me help you with that....


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## Slippy

PETA President Ingrid Newkirk, wants the dentist killed;
"He needs to be extradited, charged, and, preferably, hanged."

Cecil the Lion: PETA Wants Hunter Executed - Hollywood Reporter - Hollywood Reporter

"PETA has released a shocking statement in the wake of Cecil the Lion's death, saying the dentist who hunted and killed the animal should be killed.

"Hunting is a coward's pastime," PETA president Ingrid Newkirk said in a statement to Time. "If, as has been reported, this dentist and his guides lured Cecil out of the park with food so as to shoot him on private property, because shooting him in the park would have been illegal, he needs to be extradited, charged, and, preferably, hanged."

(cue the theme from the Good, Bad, and The Ugly)


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## Mish

Slippy said:


> PETA President Ingrid Newkirk, wants the dentist killed;
> "He needs to be extradited, charged, and, preferably, hanged."
> 
> Cecil the Lion: PETA Wants Hunter Executed - Hollywood Reporter - Hollywood Reporter
> 
> "PETA has released a shocking statement in the wake of Cecil the Lion's death, saying the dentist who hunted and killed the animal should be killed.
> 
> "Hunting is a coward's pastime," PETA president Ingrid Newkirk said in a statement to Time. "If, as has been reported, this dentist and his guides lured Cecil out of the park with food so as to shoot him on private property, because shooting him in the park would have been illegal, he needs to be extradited, charged, and, preferably, hanged."
> 
> (cue the theme from the Good, Bad, and The Ugly)


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## Arklatex

This is getting ridiculous... These people are so full of hate, it makes them look worse than the hunters.


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## SoCal92057

Wild animals die from starvation, predation, disease, cold, injury, lack of water or other natural factors. There are no old age homes for wild animals. Hunters are not doing an animal a favor but they are also not doing to the animal anything worse than would naturally occur. Hunting in the 21st Century is regulated and at times expensive.


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## Mish

SoCal92057 said:


> Wild animals die from starvation, predation, disease, cold, injury, lack of water or other natural factors. There are no old age homes for wild animals. Hunters are not doing an animal a favor but they are also not doing to the animal anything worse than would naturally occur. * Hunting in the 21st Century is regulated and at times expensive.*


LOL Regulations?!! We're talking about money and a lot of it. I have a feeling that a lot of the time there is corruption involved. Oh and we are talking about Africa here. I think they kill each other over diamonds and shat.

I agree that this poor sap is being put through the wringer!! He's getting it worse than he should. His life if now ruined. His business is in ruins. His family is being torn apart. He has kids that have to live through all this too. I get that the laws need to be upheld but this full world attack is just silly. I don't know maybe something good will come out of all this. MAYBE some rich guy will have his personal assistant double check the company they book a trophy hunt through.


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## Tennessee

Mad Trapper said:


> I am sorry but I don't agree with you.
> 
> I'm still learning to be a better hunter after over 40 years. I find a 120 pd does more tasty than a 200pd buck. I have my share of wallhangers and tanned most of their skins. What IS about the hunt is learning about nature, living in the woods, and what you are hunting. Some of my best hunts I went home without any meat, but those crafty animals taught me a lot more for the next time in the woods.
> 
> I grew up on my grandparents farm with 11 uncles and aunts, and they hunted trapped and fished so no one went hungry. The farm helped too, never out of work and we raised our own vegetables and animals. I never relished killing a chicken, cow or lamb I rasied.
> 
> I am sorry for you that it is about killing, I say a prayer and give my respects for the animals and birds I harvest.
> 
> I have ran off a lot of trophy hunters who have no respect for my land nor the animals living on it, they are not welcome. Slobs who leave their offal and spoor and cut my fences.


Madtrapper,

You are right it's about the killing. I liked hunting for the same reasons as you! I enjoyed the hunt. But I didn't need the food to survive. I hunted because I enjoyed it. I was killing animals for the act of hunting and for this reason was why I quit. For me to justify killing an animal because I ate it or because I enjoyed hunting wasn't enough anymore.

But I have no problems with you are anyone else hunting/killing animals. Hunting helps animals in many ways. What I do have a problem is with folks bashing other "legal" hunters for doing the same thing. Because they think their justification for killing an animal is more moral then the other hunters. If you are legally hunting you should not need to justify it.


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## shootbrownelk

Tennessee said:


> Madtrapper,
> 
> You are right it's about the killing. I liked hunting for the same reasons as you! I enjoyed the hunt. But I didn't need the food to survive. I hunted because I enjoyed it. I was killing animals for the act of hunting and for this reason was why I quit. For me to justify killing an animal because I ate it or because I enjoyed hunting wasn't enough anymore.
> 
> But I have no problems with you are anyone else hunting/killing animals. Hunting helps animals in many ways. What I do have a problem is with folks bashing other "legal" hunters for doing the same thing. Because they think their justification for killing an animal is more moral then the other hunters. If you are legally hunting you should not need to justify it.


That about sums it up as far as I'm concerned. If he was legal, leave him alone. Peta calling for his execution is just plain insane.


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## rice paddy daddy

Arklatex said:


> ..... it makes them look worse than the hunters.


Ark, my friend, may I respectfully submit that the guy who killed the lion was not a hunter. 
Hunters, for the most part, are stewards of conservation. They go into the woods and either stalk or sit for hours in a tree stand in order to harvest an animal. Notice I used the word harvest. This act provides food for his family and also is the most effective tool for animal management. The alternative is over population, animals seeking a limited food resource, and subsequent starvation of a number of them.

No, what this guy did was not hunting. They drug a dead animal behind a truck to lure the lion out into the open, then killed it in cold blood. Not for the meat, not to control population numbers, but to boost the dentist's ego. To achieve self gratification. This guy is, in my layman's opinion, mentally ill. A few bricks shy of a full pallet.
And, as a convicted felon, not even allowed to posses a firearm in the United States.


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## 8301

In a SHTF situation I will take solace in the fact that PETA members will be amongst the 1st to perish since they will be totally unable to defend themselves.


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## Maine-Marine

rice paddy daddy said:


> Ark, my friend, may I respectfully submit that the guy who killed the lion was not a hunter.
> Hunters, for the most part, are stewards of conservation. They go into the woods and either stalk or sit for hours in a tree stand in order to harvest an animal. Notice I used the word harvest. This act provides food for his family and also is the most effective tool for animal management. The alternative is over population, animals seeking a limited food resource, and subsequent starvation of a number of them.
> 
> No, what this guy did was not hunting. They drug a dead animal behind a truck to lure the lion out into the open, then killed it in cold blood. Not for the meat, not to control population numbers, but to boost the dentist's ego. To achieve self gratification. This guy is, in my layman's opinion, mentally ill. A few bricks shy of a full pallet.
> And, as a convicted felon, not even allowed to posses a firearm in the United States.


What do you call people that bait deer with corn or salt licks?

I agree with what you said above "in my layman's opinion" we al have opinions just like we all have butt holes and all of them stink!

it is not illegal to achieve "self gratification" if it was then every 16 year old boy with a sport illustrated would be in prison. Have you ever eaten a bowl of cold rich chocolate ice cream .... or what about a cold beer after a hard day of cutting wood.

The thing is you do not agree with what he did... but that in itself does not make it a bad thing... and I am surprised at your reaction - you are usually of more solid stuff and I agree with most of your stances... on this though - you are way over board... when you say he is mentally ill, shame on you...


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## rice paddy daddy

FoolAmI said:


> In a SHTF situation I will take solace in the fact that PETA members will be amongst the 1st to perish since they will be totally unable to defend themselves.


I would not bet the farm on that.

Ecoterrorism: Extremism in the Animal Rights and Environmentalist Movements

http://www.start.umd.edu/sites/defa...cations/Countermeasures_OperationBackfire.pdf


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## Camel923

And Ted Nugent weighs in: ?God Are People Stupid?: Ted Nugent Unloads On Those Criticizing Dentist for Killing Cecil the Lion | TheBlaze.com


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## rice paddy daddy

Maine-Marine said:


> What do you call people that bait deer with corn or salt licks?
> 
> I agree with what you said above "in my layman's opinion" we al have opinions just like we all have butt holes and all of them stink!
> 
> it is not illegal to achieve "self gratification" if it was then every 16 year old boy with a sport illustrated would be in prison. Have you ever eaten a bowl of cold rich chocolate ice cream .... or what about a cold beer after a hard day of cutting wood.
> 
> The thing is you do not agree with what he did... but that in itself does not make it a bad thing... and I am surprised at your reaction - you are usually of more solid stuff and I agree with most of your stances... on this though - you are way over board... when you say he is mentally ill, shame on you...


Hunting over bait piles not only violates the concept of Fair Chase, it also violates the law in some states.


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## rice paddy daddy

And do not get me started on Ted "Draft Dodger" Nugent.
He ain't no hero in my book.


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## hawgrider

The way I see it the guy paid a fee for the service and the kill. It should be the end of the story. But..... Because of the crybaby's on facebook it now has become the "in" thing to do. Look at the recent attacks on Women hunters from the facebook crybaby's. Eva Shockey is the most recent attack victim.

Big deal.... the rich pay for a guaranteed hunt. The poor put food on the table by hunting. Nothing about this is new.


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## Farmboyc

Never really understood why people have to plaster every damn photo they take all over Facebook in the first place.
Especially pics of a hunt/kill just asking for the backlash. IMO thoes momentos are personal anyways but I guess if everyone thought like me this would be a boring old world indeed.


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## Slippy

rice paddy daddy said:


> I would not bet the farm on that.
> 
> Ecoterrorism: Extremism in the Animal Rights and Environmentalist Movements
> 
> http://www.start.umd.edu/sites/defa...cations/Countermeasures_OperationBackfire.pdf


WOW! RPD, that was some eye opening stuff. I remember a while back reading about some eco-terrorists who vandalized one of the high end car dealerships because of the manufacturers use of leather in the upholstery etc. Cost them millions of dollars if I recall.


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## rice paddy daddy

Farmboyc said:


> Never really understood why people have to plaster every damn photo they take all over Facebook in the first place.
> Especially pics of a hunt/kill just asking for the backlash. IMO thoes momentos are personal anyways but I guess if everyone thought like me this would be a boring old world indeed.


Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission officers love it when some Bubba posts pictures of his illegal kill on Face Book. :glee:
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission


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## Farmboyc

Not talking about illegal kills that is just plain old stupid.
Talking about all kills. Seems like attention seeking to me.but whatever floats your boat I guess.


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## rice paddy daddy

I kill chickens to eat. I have also killed predators that were trying to eat my chickens. And once killed a pit bull that tried to eat me.
As I said, there is venison in my freezer and it is much healthier to eat that than what is bought at the grocery.

I am not against hunting at all, I am pro-hunting. What I am against is killing an animal for pleasure. And that is all this dentist did. The animal suffered for almost two days before being put out of its misery, and then the meat, which could have fed villagers, was left to rot in the sun.


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## SoCal92057

Mish said:


> LOL Regulations?!! We're talking about money and a lot of it. I have a feeling that a lot of the time there is corruption involved. Oh and we are talking about Africa here. I think they kill each other over diamonds and shat.
> 
> I agree that this poor sap is being put through the wringer!! He's getting it worse than he should. His life if now ruined. His business is in ruins. His family is being torn apart. He has kids that have to live through all this too. I get that the laws need to be upheld but this full world attack is just silly. I don't know maybe something good will come out of all this. MAYBE some rich guy will have his personal assistant double check the company they book a trophy hunt through.


What is your point about there being regulations?


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## Titan6

I can give a f*%K about Cecil the lion while innocent babies are being murder and their little cells are being sold off for research...makes me sick! Makes you wonder about some peoples priorities in life. As for trophy hunting i only hunt for food i plan to eat never for sport. Could care less for those who want to hunt for trophies.


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## Smitty901

What is the big deal we kill babies cut them up and sell off the parts nobody cares. Make jokes about it. At least the money the so called hunter paid went to feed people and in some cases help the animals in the long run.
Now I would never send a dime on something like that but again what is the big deal .


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## Medic33

I think this is kind of stupid-the African gov is blaming the dentist- he hired guides paid the guides -why cause he is a dentist and prolly doesn't know much about tracking and stalking -these types hire the guide to find the animal and tell them when an were to shoot.
even though I despise trophy hunting -I don't think it is fair to single this guy out for something that millions of people have done before(hired a guide for an African safari hunt).


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## alterego

I would never kill an animal for sport. I buy all of my meat prepared by some one whom I do not know who is of lesser social stature. Or I get it at a drive through. I have never killed an animal with my car while on a joy ride in my vehicle. Nor has any animal been killed by a vehicle delivering my frivolous goods. I do not believe condoning abortion should be brought into this conversation because I do not like the implications of selective morality being pointed out to me.


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## PaulS

Right! I buy all my meat at the grocery store. That way no animals are hurt.

:21::rofl3::laughhard::facepalm:


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## hawgrider

Oh the up *Roar* Get it ? LOL


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## hawgrider

This Inspirational Video Shows Perfectly Who Hunters Are - OutdoorHub


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## Mish

SoCal92057 said:


> What is your point about there being regulations?


We're talking about Africa. I assuming that regulations aren't upheld. MONEY< MONEY< MONEY!! That's what regulates.


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## NotTooProudToHide

Mish said:


> We're talking about Africa. I assuming that regulations aren't upheld. MONEY< MONEY< MONEY!! That's what regulates.







Sorry Couldn't Resist LoL


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## Mish




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## Mish

Tool,
What is your avatar picture? GoT?!


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## Maine-Marine

Lets all go burn a bunch of Hemingway books...


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## NotTooProudToHide

Mish said:


> Tool,
> What is your avatar picture? GoT?!


That is correct

Winter Is Coming!


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## Mish

toolmanky said:


> That is correct
> 
> Winter Is Coming!


I love you!!


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## James m

Mish said:


> I love you!!


Hey pretty lady, come here often?


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## Farmboyc

James m said:


> Hey pretty lady, come here often?


Down boy she is making the goo goo eyes at toolmanky not you James.


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## NotTooProudToHide

Nobody can resist the charm of the Starks!


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## PaulS

Mish likes to make goo goo eyes but remember - she is into RESISTANCE training. 

I love ya Mish :love_heart: :spank:


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## SoCal92057

Mish said:


> We're talking about Africa. I assuming that regulations aren't upheld. MONEY< MONEY< MONEY!! That's what regulates.


Money talks just about everywhere. No news in that.


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## Slippy

Update; Dentists home in FL vandalized. What a bunch of libtard cowards.

Vandals Attack Vacation Home of Dentist Who Killed Cecil - ABC News


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## Denton

I'm willing to bet I am going to restate what others have said, but I am 14 pages late to the party.

My opinion is that such a "hunt" isn't really hunting but target shooting at a living thing. I am not in the least impressed by these "hunters."

Regardless of that, you know who impresses me even less? These screwed in the head people who, while act as the lion was some defenseless child who was ripped from his mother's womb so that he can be sold for parts by a demonic business that is funded by the American taxpayer while celebrating being able to rip some defenseless child from his mother's womb so that he can be sold for parts by a demonic business that is funded by the American taxpayer.

One is a predatory cat who would munch on one of these people's carcass if given the chance, and the other is a little, defenseless human being who was unfortunate enough to be growing in the womb of a selfish adult.

The whole mess nauseates me.


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## Slippy

Remember this thread about the evil Dentist who killed poor Cecil the Lion?

Well, apparently there is a whole Industry Dedicated to breeding/raising Lions to be killed for sport! BWAAHAAHAAAGAAHAAA! Where is the outrage? The world descended on one guy, a dentist, and made his life hell...but where are the cries to stop the industry that promotes this? Hipocrits abound.

Blood Lions - a film exposing the brutal exploitation of the king of beasts - Africa Geographic


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## A Watchman

Prepared One said:


> Well, I don't believe killing to hang it on the wall is right unless your eating the meat or using the animal for survival. Most hunters I know hold these values as well. Now trophy wives on the other hand..........are another matter.


I agree whole heartedly Prepared One. But one should know as well that the fees that are considered unaffordable to many, for these safari trophy hunts, are pocket change in comparison to the pre, during, and post fees applicable to "Trophy Wives."


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## Mish

Slippy said:


> Remember this thread about the evil Dentist who killed poor Cecil the Lion?
> 
> Well, apparently there is a whole Industry Dedicated to breeding/raising Lions to be killed for sport! BWAAHAAHAAAGAAHAAA! Where is the outrage? The world descended on one guy, a dentist, and made his life hell...but where are the cries to stop the industry that promotes this? Hipocrits abound.
> 
> Blood Lions - a film exposing the brutal exploitation of the king of beasts - Africa Geographic


Link doesn't work. It's a conspiracy!!!


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## A Watchman

toolmanky said:


> I don't have a problem with people taking nuisance animals that destroy property, injure or kill livestock, or threaten humans. That includes coyotes, feral hogs, stray dogs, feral cats, groundhogs, nutria, or whatever type of animal is causing problems. I do think it should be done as humanly as possible with care taken to give a quick death and not prolong suffering.


Now you only have to get everyone to agree on what a "nuisance animal" is.


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## Slippy

Mish said:


> Link doesn't work. It's a conspiracy!!!


Good gracious...try this one damnit.
Blood Lions: The film that blows the brutal lid off the canned hunting industry | Daily Maverick


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## Slippy

A Watchman said:


> Now you only have to get everyone to agree on what a "nuisance animal" is.


Illegal Aliens=Nuisance Animals
Thugs and Criminals=Nuisance Animals
islamists who want to kill you=Nuisance Animals
Libtards=Nuisance Animals
Anybody on MSNBC=Nuisance Animals
Most people on college campuses=Nuisance Animals

Babies in their Mothers Womb=NOT Nuisance Animals


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## Slippy

UPDATE: Is this a bit of Irony? ...."The deafening criticism after Cecil's death in July has created a chilling effect among many in the industry, leading to more hunters staying home, animal populations growing out of control and a more dangerous environment for guides, say experts." Read on...
'Cecil Effect' dangerous for lions, guides | Fox News


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## Targetshooter

tg said:


> i'd like to use my nice curved dagger to carve out his balls.


 ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## txmarine6531

Slippy said:


> UPDATE: Is this a bit of Irony? ...."The deafening criticism after Cecil's death in July has created a chilling effect among many in the industry, leading to more hunters staying home, animal populations growing out of control and a more dangerous environment for guides, say experts." Read on...
> 'Cecil Effect' dangerous for lions, guides | Fox News


That's one of the key things about hunting, population control. Due to the growth of the human population and our impact on wilderness (do I sound like a lib? hope not), wildlife populations are not naturally controlled like they once were. Without people hunting wildlife, populations will grow to an unhealthy number. And by unhealthy I mean their physical health is affected from lack of food. They will starve and wander into human populated areas looking for food for a period of time, causing a danger to people as well as the animals. I love to hunt and fish, but I believe it has to be done so ethically and responsibly. I don't like those who "hunt" just to have a cool looking animal to hang in their office for show and tell. I'm more concerned about getting that meat and putting it in the freezer. The left and the ignorant scream and cry about poor Bambi being shot without knowing the impact on the eco system if hunting were to cease all together. Some just don't get it, and they never will.


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## Slippy

Everything you said, I consider a Freedom and Liberty based statement. :joyous:

The only thing I disagree on is the right for anyone to hunt (legally) for trophy's. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, it is a reward for a free society. I'll have to add that ever trophy hunter I know uses or donates the meat and byproducts of the hunt.

Illegal poaching for the thrill of the kill is wrong. But killing animals for a reason, as in population control is fine in my book.



txmarine6531 said:


> That's one of the key things about hunting, population control. Due to the growth of the human population and our impact on wilderness (do I sound like a lib? hope not), wildlife populations are not naturally controlled like they once were. Without people hunting wildlife, populations will grow to an unhealthy number. And by unhealthy I mean their physical health is affected from lack of food. They will starve and wander into human populated areas looking for food for a period of time, causing a danger to people as well as the animals. I love to hunt and fish, but I believe it has to be done so ethically and responsibly. I don't like those who "hunt" just to have a cool looking animal to hang in their office for show and tell. I'm more concerned about getting that meat and putting it in the freezer. The left and the ignorant scream and cry about poor Bambi being shot without knowing the impact on the eco system if hunting were to cease all together. Some just don't get it, and they never will.


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## A Watchman

^^^^^^^^^^ its unfortunate that the anti hunting establishment doesn't realize what wildlife management is and without culling of the stock the entire species becomes exposed to disease and famine. Wildlife management plans replace the long gone predator chain that has been altered by human expansion into the former wildlife territories.

Culling is a natural process in nature and ranching. Culling the weak and old is practiced daily by all producers of domestic meat inclusive of cattle and swine.


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## NotTooProudToHide

I'm still against trophy hunting as a rule but now that I've found out that in most cases the meat from African trophy kills go to feed the local population I don't have as big of problem with it. What makes Cecil so different is there where several clear ethical boundaries that where broken with the hunt and the kill. Cecil was a tracked lion living on a preserve and there was significant evidence that the "professional" hunters knew this and still baited him off the preserve and killed him despite the fact that he was wearing a collar. Secondly the manner in which he was killed bothers me, he was hit with an arrow and allowed to suffer all night before ultimately being done in with a gunshot, the hunt should have never been conducted when conditions would have made this delay possible. Thirdly the parties involved attempted to hide the collar, and left the carcass to rot after the kill. I don't know if the dentist was to blame or his guides but like I said, this hunt still bothers me.


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## keith9365

I've shot many deer over my lifetime. Not one set of horns on the wall. I don't care about it, and would rather shoot a yearling doe for the table. I never understood the thrill of paying several thousand dollars to go to a fenced in preserve and shoot a farm raised exotic animal and call it hunting.


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## Kumarkalliente

its called respecting the land. Trophy hunting is wrong. if you want to hunt for no other reason than to mount a head or antlers on your wall, your shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. I feel very strongly on this Hunter's should be part conservationists.


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## Slippy

Kumarkalliente said:


> ....if you want to hunt for no other reason than to mount a head or antlers on your wall, your shouldn't be allowed to own a gun....


Pssst, Kumarkalliente, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".


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## Kumarkalliente

Militias need to eat right? and the second amendment has nothing to do with the right to have a firearm for the intensive purpose of hunting.Which your right to hunt can be taken away alot easier and within that they can take any weapon able to hunt with I've seen it happen. They'll throw you in jail for a weekend and serve a warrant on Saturday . the constitution showed not be involved. the animals dont know there american right? I'm not saying it needs to come down to take the trophy hunters guns. but if your not using the animal to the fullest than you need to shoot a smaller animal.


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## Will2

Only First Nations have the right to hunt in Canada, people have to pay, and train to be able to hunt otherwise with or without a firearm. You have your training costs, your hunting license card costs, your hunting type sticker costs, you have your area lottery assignment costs, you have your actual tags that are limited and often quotaed. 

Trappers have it much easier but in order to be a trapper, you either need to be hired on by a head trapper, or somehow getting ownership of a trapline which goes to the person who has the most seniority more or less unless you buy it out, maybe.
To trap you need the trapping course, you need to trap beaver for the government, and you have kill limits for each species type. (Still much easier than getting a recreational hunting license though in terms of what you can hunt.)

Anyway, it sounds like you guys have it much easier if you are talking about hunting as a right instead of a privelege like it is up in Canada.

None the less, it was a mistake to kill a protected animal. 

That is the bottom line.


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## Grinch

Here's my 2 cents so take it for the penny it's worth; I'm a meat hunter, have been always will be, I shot my first deer when I was 11, shot my first actual game species when I was 5 it was a fox on my father's trap line. Now I also trap exclusively for furs, some may consider this more or less " trophy hunting ". I have had my fair share of run ins with these anti-hunters and even a few local guys who are meat hunters and they say trapping is wrong because you skin it and do not use the meat for anything good, besides scent I might use it for some bait but that's about it. But anymore since lions were the main focus of this does anyone know how much a lion hunt is ? Bare minimum you're looking at 5k for a hunt, I talked to a guide at the Sportman's Expo one time, he said that most of the cost is taxes they have to pay for preservation of these species and a lot of guides told me that. Elephants too, I mean I know on the hunting shows as soon as they get their pictures and stuff for the mount later the village is already there hacking away, trophy hunting might be viewed as wrong in the eyes of some, for a while I was included in that group. But it all depends on what you mean, if there's 101 snow leopards left and I had an unlimited amount of money chances are good if a tag goes out for a snow leopard it's going to be an auction and a lot of that money is going to go to protecting the other 100 snow leopards left. Is poaching wrong ? hell yes but that's not what's in question here. Do I personally have a problem with these guys who shoot a nice buck cut the head and backstraps off and leave the rest ? Hell Yes I do, but there's not a whole helluva lot you can do about it ( unless it's illegal and you report them ). I know one guy around us he's a city guy who likes to come up and drink and play cards all of deer season, he tells his wife he hunts but the extent of it is him usually shooting a deer while he's half toked and coming back from the beer store. We solved this problem by scaring deer off of his property every morning before he woke up.


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## Slippy

Kumarkalliente said:


> Militias need to eat right? and the second amendment has nothing to do with the right to have a firearm for the intensive purpose of hunting.Which your right to hunt can be taken away alot easier and within that they can take any weapon able to hunt with I've seen it happen. They'll throw you in jail for a weekend and serve a warrant on Saturday . the constitution showed not be involved. the animals dont know there american right? I'm not saying it needs to come down to take the trophy hunters guns. but if your not using the animal to the fullest than you need to shoot a smaller animal.


Sir (or Madam?)
It was you that suggested that if someone was only trophy hunting that they should not be allowed to own a gun. Did I get that correct or do you want to retract that?

Regardless, the 2A has NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING.

As a free man, if I want to trophy hunt legally, I will do so legally and with compassionate skill.


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## Will2

Grinch said:


> I have had my fair share of run ins with these anti-hunters and even a few local guys who are meat hunters and they say trapping is wrong because you skin it and do not use the meat for anything good, besides scent I might use it for some bait but that's about it


Trappers in Ontario actually have a duty to put all the animal carcass to use and dispose of it in a way that promotes nature, this means providing it as feed to other animals, or using it or giving it away. Its not just the glands that are used, every part that has a use will be used ideally.

In fact bait can cost a lot if you arn't recycling what you do catch. Since many of the higher earning furs are carnivore or omnivore, using it for baits of high value species makes sense. This isn't just bait to capture/kill them, but also keep them fed during starvation periods to promote their growth and survival.

Ethical trapping is all about promoting protection of species by assisting them live, while harvesting from good populations. In effect culling manages overpopulation which reduces death by disease, while quotas are lowered or removed if a species quantity is low. No ethical trapper would ever waste meat, or other parts of an animal carcass. Carcases need to be disposed of in a way that is responsible, and promotes the environment.

However if you look at fishing or other activities, gutting animals is not unheard of. You now there are rules on carcass use and disposal.

Trapping isn't just about taking valuables from nature it is about sustainable harvesting, and promoting healthy ecosystems.

Why would trappers want less fur bearing animals on their land? The more the better. Good trappers increases the population of animals not kill off local populations.


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## BuckB

Kumarkalliente said:


> its called respecting the land. Trophy hunting is wrong. if you want to hunt for no other reason than to mount a head or antlers on your wall, your shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. I feel very strongly on this Hunter's should be part conservationists.


Since the OP started referencing the dentist that got all of the crap for LEGALLY shooting the lion in Africa, I will limit my comment to that specific instance.

The dentist PAID a guide a lot of money and PAID a lot of money to the country of Zimbabwe (which should still be called Rhodesia) to be ALLOWED to hunt a lion. The LAWS of ZIMBABWE prevented him from using any of the meat from the kill. He was only allowed to keep the head and the pelt. The meat was confiscated by the ZIMBABWE government and given to the Zimbabwe people as food. In other words, the animal WAS used. The Zimbabwe people benefitted from his trip and from his kill. The only thing that was illegal about the whole enterprise was the ZIMBABWE guide led an unknowing American into a game preserve where he was not allowed to hunt.

So, let me ask you... When you travel and hire a local to help you with an adventure (fishing, hunting, whatever...), do you rely on the guide that you PAID a bunch of money to keep you legal or do you also hire a local attorney to figure it out for you?

In Buck Bored-ville a lot of deer hunters donate the meat to local homeless shelters and it is used. Is that wrong even if the hunter does not personally use the meat? Why do you hate the homeless? Why do you hate the Zimbabwe people?


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## Farva

Read the first 4 pages of the Necro, forgive me if I skip ahead.

Robert Mugabe eats a zoo for 'obscene' 91st birthday party | People | News | The Independent

Robert Mugabe is turning 91, feasting on elephant meat as his people starve | Vince Musewe | Opinion | The Guardian

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-eats-baby-elephant-at-lavish-birthday-bash/

And the actual google search if it works,

https://www.google.com/#q=zimbabwe+president+feast

I could say a lot how these hunts are supposed to finance the whole wildlifey kinda thing.

But, I really don't think anyone in Zimbabwe gives a rats ass. Come to think of it, I don't either.

Hunt for a Trophy, Hunt for your keys, not really giving a crap here. There's a couple ten more crap worthy things going on, and this aint it.


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## txmarine6531

Slippy said:


> Everything you said, I consider a Freedom and Liberty based statement. :joyous:
> 
> The only thing I disagree on is the right for anyone to hunt (legally) for trophy's. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, it is a reward for a free society. I'll have to add that ever trophy hunter I know uses or donates the meat and byproducts of the hunt.
> 
> Illegal poaching for the thrill of the kill is wrong. But killing animals for a reason, as in population control is fine in my book.


I'm not arguing the issue of rights. People most certainly have the right to trophy hunt, I just don't like the people who hunt for heads and not care about the meat and other things, lets them waste away. If they do hunt for heads and donate the meat, more power to them. Just as long it's not a waste of game, the numero uno no no in hunting. I know a few guys who got tickets over that. They shot some shovelers and chunked them in the woods.


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## Grinch

However if you look at fishing or other activities, gutting animals is not unheard of. You now there are rules on carcass use and disposal.

Trapping isn't just about taking valuables from nature it is about sustainable harvesting, and promoting healthy ecosystems.

Why would trappers want less fur bearing animals on their land? The more the better. Good trappers increase population of animals not kill off local populations.[/QUOTE]

By no means do I wish to have less fur bearing animals, I am actually probably one of the biggest supporters of maintaining nature, I personally practice the crop rotation style of trapping where I don't primarily trap a species each consecutive year. Now I won't lie here, but I follow the money in it, anymore you have to, you can't get 45$ for a beaver pelt anymore, you're lucky to get half of that for a mink. This year currently I've yet to even consider setting up fox traps, the pelts aren't worth the time to skin, nothing is. Overall I'd rather see a fox out in the woods than just about any other person in the world.


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## Medic33

hunting anything other than for food or protection is wrong period.
trophy hunting is disrespectful to the animal and the earth it came from.


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## Maine-Marine

Medic33 said:


> hunting anything other than for food or protection is wrong period.
> trophy hunting is disrespectful to the animal and the earth it came from.


Aren't opinions wonderful things.


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## Doc Holliday

Im not going to read through 16 pages to see if I have already posted to this thread so here is my take.

As far as the guy knew it was a legal hunt and he did nothing wrong, It was in a foreign country so... eh
I have never and will never trophy hunt, I only hunt for food. If I was in a situation where I could make money off a few furs then maybe I would hunt for fur but only if the population was sustainable.


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## 8301

Went to the beach last summer and brought back some starfish legs which dried nice and hard. Shot a bunny last week and to keep Will happy I left the body on the ground after ripping off the head to benefit nature by letting the bunny body become fertilizer. 
Tonight I used super glue to attach the starfish legs to the bunny head. A trophy I can sell as a giant attack hamster. 

sell it cheap, call 1-888- slippy.


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## BuckB

FoolAmI said:


> Went to the beach last summer and brought back some starfish legs which dried nice and hard. Shot a bunny last week and to keep Will happy I left the body on the ground after ripping off the head to benefit nature by letting the bunny body become fertilizer.
> Tonight I used super glue to attach the starfish legs to the bunny head. A trophy I can sell as a giant attack hamster.
> 
> sell it cheap, call 1-888- slippy.


Now that's thinkin' outside the box!

You should consider an internship at Buck Bored Marketing Esq. You are just the kind of go-getter we are looking for! Have your secretary give my secretary a PM and we can discuss the details.

Regards

Buck Bored

1-800-SELL-CRAP


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## Will2

Grinch said:


> By no means do I wish to have less fur bearing animals, I am actually probably one of the biggest supporters of maintaining nature, I personally practice the crop rotation style of trapping where I don't primarily trap a species each consecutive year. Now I won't lie here, but I follow the money in it, anymore you have to, you can't get 45$ for a beaver pelt anymore, you're lucky to get half of that for a mink. This year currently I've yet to even consider setting up fox traps, the pelts aren't worth the time to skin, nothing is. Overall I'd rather see a fox out in the woods than just about any other person in the world.


The meat alone is worth more than the pelts in some cases. With the Russian downturn, and other economic downturns it makes sense fur prices are down too. In Ontario you have to attempt to trap to the minimum quota in beaver, its not about the pelts, it is about population management, and ideally reducing damage to roads from flooding beavers cause.
For a prepper the ability to trap is really useful as while Furs arn't catching a lot you can actually use those furs for really good clothing, good meat and other traditional skills. Trapping is more so about making a little money these days, and enjoying an outdoor lifestyle. I think few people get into trapping to get rich, you can make more as an animal control agent in populated areas.

10lbs of beaver flesh is worth way more than a 10lb turkey, prices can be upwards of $5/lb for Turkey. That is $50 on flesh. 10$-$20 on the pelt.


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## Doc Holliday

In my younger days I loved to hunt beaver.....


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## 8301

Doc Holliday said:


> In my younger days I loved to hunt beaver.....


Just remember that some beaver can be dangerous to your mental health.


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## BuckB

FoolAmI said:


> Just remember that some beaver can be dangerous to your mental health.


And it makes you pee red...


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## Slippy

I wonder if Will2 ever had any beaver? And I mean real beaver, not Wikipedia Beaver. 

Just staring at the horizon on a bee-u-tiful Saturday am, pondering things...:teapot:


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## Maine-Marine

Doc Holliday said:


> In my younger days I loved to hunt beaver.....


I do not care who you are.. that is a great innuendo


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## Slippy

Maine-Marine said:


> I do not care who you are.. that is a great innuendo


You mean Doc wasn't an actual hunter of the North American Rodent Castor canadensis?

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis?


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## paraquack

The great American trophy hunt.


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## SOCOM42

While dating a girl from South Carolina, I got to eat beaver stew from one caught somewhere around the lake Murray area.
I was full of beaver that night, having it also as an evening snack.
I use to shuttle planes down south or pick them up from there, would lay over in Columbia SC, landing at Columbia Metro.
She would pick me up from there, most of the time I would stay the weekend.
FBO I hauled for did not care if I stayed there or not.
I use to bring lobster and clams from the cape to her family.

Back to the thread, I oppose trophy hunting. Game management is something different, it needs to be done.


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## Doc Holliday

I have never eaten stew but I have ate a lot of beaver, if it was stewing I wasn't eating it.... Ok, time to get off the meds


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## 8301

SOCOM42 said:


> While dating a girl from South Carolina, I got to eat beaver stew from one caught somewhere around the lake Murray area.
> I was full of beaver that night, having it also as an evening snack.
> I use to shuttle planes down south or pick them up from there, would lay over in Columbia SC, landing at Columbia Metro.
> She would pick me up from there, most of the time I would stay the weekend.
> FBO I hauled for did not care if I stayed there or not.
> I use to bring lobster and clams from the cape to her family..


I suspect this is a well laid man. Wish I had his piloting skills. My minimal farming skills probably laid a lot less wild oats.


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