# What seeds are good to buy for when the SHTF?



## Jackangus

I want to buy some seeds, but I have heard some are not good to buy for reasons that I am not smart enough to know.
Can anyone help me out?
Also somewhere I could buy these seeds? A site that would send to New Zealand. I really struggle to find good prep stuff here.

Much appreciated fellow preppers.


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## Camel923

Heirloom seeds. You will get new seeds from a present garden that will germinate next year. Not always the case with those that are genetically modified. I recall reading that the nutritional value of some of the genetic modified plants is lacking.

What Are Heirloom Seeds?

HEIRLOOM SEEDS - 28 years preserving our heritage. - Non-GMO

100% Heirloom, Non-GMO Seeds | Patriot Seeds

You may have to inquire as to what New Zealand allows in and who ships. The US bans some things so I assume it would be the same for you.


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## LunaticFringeInc

Yep Heirloom Seeds is what your looking for!!! Not sure of a source for you to use tho...sorry.


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## Sonya

There must be organic gardeners in New Zealand that could hook you up. There are probably websites and the like along with businesses that ship seeds. Might want to google it.

Best to also start a little garden and learn what grows well and how to grow it. It is a lot harder then non-gardeners think, and novice mistakes can lead to most everything dying or being eaten by bugs. Folks don't need heirloom seeds to learn how to garden, any seeds will work.


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## Slippy

Try these guys out @Jackangus,

Tell 'em Slippy sent you!

Egmont Seed Company Ltd, Online seed sales


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## Illini Warrior

even if your gooberment would allow US seeds thru import restrictions - I don't think any of the US growing zones would represent your growing situation - just possibly Hawaii on a wild hair chance ....


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## azrancher

Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds (Rare Heirloom Seeds | Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds) will ship to any country, it is up to you to determine with your customs if they will let it thru, if you order just one packet it will be pretty small and thin.

*Rancher*


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## azrancher

Illini Warrior said:


> even if your gooberment would allow US seeds thru import restrictions - I don't think any of the US growing zones would represent your growing situation - just possibly Hawaii on a wild hair chance ....


Sure they will, New Zealand is down under, so Spring here is Fall there...

*Rancher*


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## Jackangus

Organic, is that what I need to be looking at?
How many seeds do you guys have? They seem to sell them in this place I just found in NZ in packs of 15.
I know that is a terrible question, but I have no idea what a decent amount is.


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## inceptor

Jackangus said:


> Organic, is that what I need to be looking at?
> How many seeds do you guys have? They seem to sell them in this place I just found in NZ in packs of 15.
> I know that is a terrible question, but I have no idea what a decent amount is.


Organic is always good but what the others were talking about is Heirloom seeds. Monsanto and others have a lock on regular seeds. GMO (genetically modified organism) seeds are modified and produce no reproductive seeds. The GMO parts bothers me but even more than that is the fact that the modified organisms produce no seeds for you to sow again. The point is you have to keep buying product for them every time you want to replant.

The amount is up to you. I'm a firm believer in more is better.


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## azrancher

Heirloom and Organic are both buzz words, like cage free chickens in California, yeah they are cage free but they walk and lay their eggs in poop.

Basically you want a seed that grows into a plant that if you harvested the seeds from would grow you back the same plant and fruit/vegitable.

I planted a Hybrid Alfalfa seeds in a small area that I wanted the horses to graze in, and they grew great, however every year since then they produce a wiry shrub plant with very small leaves.

So most garden seeds will state that they are hybrid, go for the Heirloom seeds.

Let us know how it goes for you.

*Rancher*


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## inceptor

azrancher said:


> Heirloom and Organic are both buzz words, like cage free chickens in California, yeah they are cage free but they walk and lay their eggs in poop.
> 
> Basically you want a seed that grows into a plant that if you harvested the seeds from would grow you back the same plant and fruit/vegitable.
> 
> I planted a Hybrid Alfalfa seeds in a small area that I wanted the horses to graze in, and they grew great, however every year since then they produce a wiry shrub plant with very small leaves.
> 
> So most garden seeds will state that they are hybrid, go for the Heirloom seeds.
> 
> Let us know how it goes for you.
> 
> *Rancher*


Ah but there is a major difference between GMO and hybrid. A hybrid seed is just a crossbreed, not genetically modified. Here is a good explanation

The Difference Between Hybrid Seeds and GMOs | SFF


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## azrancher

Double Post... sorry!


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## azrancher

inceptor said:


> Ah but there is a major difference between GMO and hybrid. A hybrid seed is just a crossbreed, not genetically modified. Here is a good explanation


I agree, although I've never tried to re-seed a GMO plant, I understand that Monsanto is suing farmers who have fields adjacent to GMO seeded fields, so they may propagate as the same plant. Cross breeding is fun, try crossing 2 different corn plants.... indian corn, which is probably where they got their original roots... so to speak.

*Rancher*


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## Jackangus

inceptor said:


> Organic is always good but what the others were talking about is Heirloom seeds. Monsanto and others have a lock on regular seeds. GMO (genetically modified organism) seeds are modified and produce no reproductive seeds. The GMO parts bothers me but even more than that is the fact that the modified organisms produce no seeds for you to sow again. The point is you have to keep buying product for them every time you want to replant.
> 
> The amount is up to you. I'm a firm believer in more is better.


Thank-you brother:vs_closedeyes:


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## inceptor

Jackangus said:


> Thank-you brother:vs_closedeyes:


I just started getting into this a few months ago. I needed to know the difference for myself so I did the research.


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## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> Organic, is that what I need to be looking at?
> How many seeds do you guys have? They seem to sell them in this place I just found in NZ in packs of 15.
> I know that is a terrible question, but I have no idea what a decent amount is.


Depends on the type of plant. Carrots or beets usually have hundreds in a pack. Not sure exactly how many, but lots of little seeds. also buy plants that will produce throughout the growing season, and produce for a long time. For instance bush beans are meant to be harvested with a machine and produce all of the green beans in a short amount of time, vs. the pole beans which produce green beans all summer long. For survival you would want some plants that produce early spring, others throughout the summer and into late fall.

But seriously, don't just store seeds away and plan to read the instructions and learn to plant if you need them during shtf. That would be a recipe for absolute disaster. If you don't know how to prepare the soil, water properly, etc...you would probably lose the entire harvest. It isn't the type of thing you want to try when there are no resources to ask, or stores to buy fertilizers, bug sprays, tools etc...from.


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## inceptor

Sonya said:


> Depends on the type of plant. Carrots or beets usually have 100+ in a pack. Not sure exactly how many, but lots of little seeds.
> 
> But seriously, don't just store seeds away and plan to read the instructions and learn to plant if you need them during shtf. That would be a recipe for absolute disaster. If you don't know how to prepare the soil, water properly, etc...you would probably lose the entire harvest. It isn't the type of thing you want to try when there are no resources to ask, or stores to buy fertilizers, bug sprays, tools etc...from.


Now ain't that the truth. I just got into gardening about August. I did a fall planting. The only thing growing well for me right now is herbs. But I had to start somewhere. I have learned a few things so far and the lessons are far from over. But, I'll get this yet. :tango_face_grin:


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## bigwheel

Jackangus said:


> I want to buy some seeds, but I have heard some are not good to buy for reasons that I am not smart enough to know.
> Can anyone help me out?
> Also somewhere I could buy these seeds? A site that would send to New Zealand. I really struggle to find good prep stuff here.
> 
> Much appreciated fellow preppers.


https://www.cannabis-seeds-store.co...-co-/trainwreck-feminised-seeds/prod_461.html


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## Jackangus

How do you store seeds for a long time?
Can they last for 20+ years?


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## inceptor

Jackangus said:


> How do you store seeds for a long time?
> Can they last for 20+ years?


I wouldn't count on it. I bought some in a seed vault. Some store seeds in the freezer. I have done that with some but we'll see. I doubt 5+ years.

The average from what I have read is about 2 years but I am no expert.


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## 8301

inceptor said:


> I'm a firm believer in more is better.


The 1st year I bought heirloom seeds for an emergency I purchased 2 packs, put a date on the mylar bag, and tossed them into the chest freezer since almost all seeds will survive 3+ years in the freezer. Ever since every fall I've ordered a fresh pack of seeds, dated them, and added the small pack along with any instructions that came with the seeds to the freezer (ziplock bag to keep things together). This way I've got different heirloom seeds built up over the years "just in case". If ever needed I can trade the older seed packs.

Most "survival" seed packs don't take up much freezer space.


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## inceptor

John Galt said:


> The 1st year I bought heirloom seeds for an emergency I purchased 2 packs, put a date on the mylar bag, and tossed them into the chest freezer since almost all seeds will survive 3+ years in the freezer. Ever since every fall I've ordered a fresh pack of seeds, dated them, and added the small pack along with any instructions that came with the seeds to the freezer (ziplock bag to keep things together). This way I've got different heirloom seeds built op over the years "just in case". If ever needed I can trade the older seed packs.
> 
> Most "survival" seed packs don't take up much freezer space.


What I have in the freezer is a couple of varieties of this.

https://www.amazon.com/Heirloom-Vegetable-Survival-Garden-Variety/dp/B017YET9K6

I don't have this in the freezer but I got it a few years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/Survival-Hei...479784369&sr=1-3&keywords=seed+vault+heirloom


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## Jackangus

inceptor said:


> What I have in the freezer is a couple of varieties of this.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Heirloom-Vegetable-Survival-Garden-Variety/dp/B017YET9K6
> 
> I don't have this in the freezer but I got it a few years ago.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Survival-Hei...479784369&sr=1-3&keywords=seed+vault+heirloom


Just ordered the Survival Seed Vault. That will get me started.
Thanks for the heads up, much appreciated.


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## Camel923

In addition to seeds for food, seeds for herbs are a great prep. Not only to season the food but for tea and medicinal purposes. Same feeezing to store for a few years then replace as necessary.


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## Real Old Man

Jackangus said:


> I want to buy some seeds, but I have heard some are not good to buy for reasons that I am not smart enough to know.
> Can anyone help me out?
> Also somewhere I could buy these seeds? A site that would send to New Zealand. I really struggle to find good prep stuff here.
> 
> Much appreciated fellow preppers.


Don't know if you've had a chance to google heirloom seeds NZ, but these folks came right up

Search Results : Gardenstuff Flowers, Herbs and Vegetables, All the wildflower, flower, herb and vegetable seeds you will ever want, the best range for sale online in New Zealand

Good luck and welcome aboard

Hope you missed out on the earthquake


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## LunaticFringeInc

Sonya said:


> There must be organic gardeners in New Zealand that could hook you up. There are probably websites and the like along with businesses that ship seeds. Might want to google it.
> 
> Best to also start a little garden and learn what grows well and how to grow it. It is a lot harder then non-gardeners think, and novice mistakes can lead to most everything dying or being eaten by bugs. Folks don't need heirloom seeds to learn how to garden, any seeds will work.


Good advice here. The only place I am gonna part ways and differ in opinion is this. Id get my hands on some Heirlooms to begin with and just start slowly as suggested. Try some simple stuff like Beans, Corn, Peppers and Tomatoes. You dont need a lot just a few. Starting small is a good route to go. What I would do though is save some seeds from what you grow and build up your seed collection in prep for the next seasons garden. One Tomato plant can give you a few hundred seeds for next season! If you have to live on what you grow its going to take a pretty sizable garden to feed a family of four to get you by day to day, plus enough to get you through the winter season if you have one there. Plus you always have to consider the fact that if you loose you garden due to a disaster or poor year, you still need enough produce laid back to see you through not to mention enough seeds to get you started and back up and running again! I would then expand my seed collection every year as you go and as you gain more experience. Yes even with my extensive experience I am still struggling it seems to plant the small seeds and reliably do well. Dont know what it is about those small seeds like Broccoli, Carrots etc....but "the force is not strong with me" apparently!!!

Also consider too, my raised beds started off with great organic soil but didnt really start to mature and come around until they were about 3 years old. They have gotten better every year since. Most soils arent all that great and it takes some time to amend them without using Chemicals and what not and time for it to become nutrient rich and loamy, giving me great production in a small area with minimal watering required. Your garden will probably be little different! I have been at this pretty hard core for about 6 years. Part of the learning curve has been trying different growing techniques, finding out what works best here with the least amount of effort on my part but still gives me the best production. Some things worked well some not so well. Some not at all! Even after all of that time and effort, I am not growing all my food just about half of it although I aint blessed with a whole lot of space to work with. Its a process to be sure and I am gradually getting there a little closer each season as I slowly get back to a point where I was when I was a teenager growing up in a rural community when 90% of what we had was grown or raised on the homestead! My point here...Rome wasnt built in a day - it took some time.


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## Sonya

LunaticFringeInc said:


> Good advice here. The only place I am gonna part ways and differ in opinion is this. Id get my hands on some Heirlooms to begin with and just start slowly as suggested. Try some simple stuff like Beans, Corn, Peppers and Tomatoes. You dont need a lot just a few. Starting small is a good route to go. What I would do though is save some seeds from what you grow and build up your seed collection in prep for the next seasons garden. One Tomato plant can give you a few hundred seeds for next season! If you have to live on what you grow its going to take a pretty sizable garden to feed a family of four to get you by day to day, plus enough to get you through the winter season if you have one there. Plus you always have to consider the fact that if you loose you garden due to a disaster or poor year, you still need enough produce laid back to see you through not to mention enough seeds to get you started and back up and running again! I would then expand my seed collection every year as you go and as you gain more experience. Yes even with my extensive experience I am still struggling it seems to plant the small seeds and reliably do well. Dont know what it is about those small seeds like Broccoli, Carrots etc....but "the force is not strong with me" apparently!!!
> 
> Also consider too, my raised beds started off with great organic soil but didnt really start to mature and come around until they were about 3 years old. They have gotten better every year since. Most soils arent all that great and it takes some time to amend them without using Chemicals and what not and time for it to become nutrient rich and loamy, giving me great production in a small area with minimal watering required. Your garden will probably be little different! I have been at this pretty hard core for about 6 years. Part of the learning curve has been trying different growing techniques, finding out what works best here with the least amount of effort on my part but still gives me the best production. Some things worked well some not so well. Some not at all! Even after all of that time and effort, I am not growing all my food just about half of it although I aint blessed with a whole lot of space to work with. Its a process to be sure and I am gradually getting there a little closer each season as I slowly get back to a point where I was when I was a teenager growing up in a rural community when 90% of what we had was grown or raised on the homestead! My point here...Rome wasnt built in a day - it took some time.


Yeah sadly I think many of the folks that are buying those "easy emergency survival seed vaults" would starve before they ever managed to produce anything. It would end up being a lot of back breaking work and a whole lot of tears with no real harvest.

I don't garden, mainly because the 2-3 times I tried something happened (like catepillars showing up and eating all of my beautiful "growing so well" little plants in 2 nights). But I do want to try again.

One thing I find interesting are the methods and crops grown by settlers. Today we tend to grow stuff and plan to preserve it all for year round use. Back then they focused on growing/eating seasonal crops throughout the year which makes more sense for a variety of reasons.


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## Jackangus

I just bought some seeds in packets today. There best buy date is 2020 which is a good amount of time away.
Is there any point in repackaging them in Mylar, with oxygen absorbers?


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## Sonya

Jackangus said:


> I just bought some seeds in packets today. There best buy date is 2020 which is a good amount of time away.
> Is there any point in repackaging them in Mylar, with oxygen absorbers?


I don't think I would use oxygen absorbers. Google storing seeds.

Remember these are living things, it isn't like storing dried grains.


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## Slippy

Seeds are pretty amazing. We have seeds stored in a drawer in our laundry room, some seeds in the refrigerator and even stored some seeds in the freezer.

Last year when we planted our garden, one of our gardening pails was in the garage all winter and had some gardening tools and old gloves in it but also a package of Green Bean seeds. Mrs Slippy planted the seeds and they grew and produced beans. 

Hell, I've tossed rotten tomatoes in the woods and the next year had "volunteer" tomato plants spring up. 

Seeds are amazing things....


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## inceptor

Sonya said:


> Yeah sadly I think many of the folks that are buying those "easy emergency survival seed vaults" would starve before they ever managed to produce anything. It would end up being a lot of back breaking work and a whole lot of tears with no real harvest.


Yeah I can see that.



Sonya said:


> I don't garden, mainly because the 2-3 times I tried something happened (like catepillars showing up and eating all of my beautiful "growing so well" little plants in 2 nights). But I do want to try again.


That was me too. That's why I started. I know I'm going to make mistakes but I'd rather do it now when help is easily accessible.



Sonya said:


> One thing I find interesting are the methods and crops grown by settlers. Today we tend to grow stuff and plan to preserve it all for year round use. Back then they focused on growing/eating seasonal crops throughout the year which makes more sense for a variety of reasons.


But they also grew for canning. That's how they got through the winters.


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## LunaticFringeInc

Dang Inceptor you stole my thunder again....lol!

Yeah we grew a lot and ate seasonal quiet a bit but we also canned the dog doo-doo out of things too to eat throughout the year. In the winter here, lots of Snow Peas, Broccoli, Spinach etc...in the summer, your typical summer table fair was abundant. A lot of my TV time was spent with a bushel basket between my legs shelling beans and peas or shucking corn. About every other weekend the last couple months of the summer growing season we were canning fools!!!



> Quote Originally Posted by Sonya View Post
> I don't garden, mainly because the 2-3 times I tried something happened (like catepillars showing up and eating all of my beautiful "growing so well" little plants in 2 nights). But I do want to try again.


Yep, been there seen that movie a few times. Its part of the learning curve. Its also part of the reason I said it take a lot more garden than most think to produce what you need. That also means you gonna have to have enough seeds stashed away to start two or three times at least on hand just in case you have a bad year.

I think your dead on right about the folks buying a can of seeds and going I got this covered. I am betting you the bank that you dont! Yeah it doesnt take much in the way of seeds for Okra, Tomatoes, Watermelon, but to grow enough Spinach, Carrots, Radishes and such takes more than a few seed packs just to grow what you can consume as fast as you grow it! Look too at what it takes time wise from seeds sprouting till the time it STARTS producing something edible...many varieties I grow have a 80-90 day window. Thats if things go well and I have no set backs or misfortune in the mean time! I need a lot of food to eat long before then!!!

You brought up another excellent point too. Gardening is back breaking work especially when you initially start to work a piece of ground. I went to raised beds partially becuase of that...yeah I am lazy some would say but I call it working smarter not harder! Even then I spent a lot of back breaking time making it happen and broke a lot of sweat in the process. I might have quite the green thumb but I aint got no Harry Potter magic wand in my back pocket either!


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## inceptor

I'm actually doing 2 things.

Waist high raised beds. We have one the wife bought and the next one will be a shallow one strictly for salad stuff. Over the winter I will build 2 more 4' by maybe 3.5' that will be 12-18" deep. Part of that will be vertical gardening.

I'm also doing container gardening. Sitting Elf told me about grow bags. I have brussel sprouts growing in them now. We bought a batch of 9 but only 3 are doing well. I'm not sure why unless I used different dirt in each. I think that's part of the problem but I wasn't paying attention when I filled the bags. I also have garlic and onions going right now that are doing well. 

With the container gardening, I'm also looking into companion planting. What plants do well with others planted in the same container.

There are quite a number of trees in my area so full sun is a problem. Not only in my yard but the neighbors also. Combine that with a very small backyard and I had to get creative.


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## Sonya

inceptor said:


> But they also grew for canning. That's how they got through the winters.


Canning didn't become mainstream until after the Civil War.

Before that settlers and homesteaders had some other methods, like salting, pickeling, root cellars, etc... but they primarily focused on eating with the seasons and only preserved certain foods that they really needed to store year round like eggs for cooking, or maybe some fruit as a treat. Saurkraut was popular, and it also prevented scurvy over the winter.

Obviously some types of storage is needed to prevent starvation, but much of the canning we do today is done to mimic the year round availability of foods from the grocery stores.

I've read starvation in the South was a big factor in the North winning the war. Salt shortages caused huge problems as without salt people couldn't preserve pork or other meats. With the high humidity in the South dehydrating food was difficult and it didn't last very long. Canning had been invented but home canning didn't exist at that point. Interesting article on that and the substitutions people used: http://www.unctv.org/content/civilwar/cooking


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## inceptor

Sonya said:


> Canning didn't become mainstream until after the Civil War.
> 
> Before that settlers and homesteaders had some other methods, like salting, pickeling, root cellars, etc... but they primarily focused on eating with the seasons and only preserved certain foods that they really needed to store year round like eggs for cooking, or maybe some fruit as a treat. Saurkraut was popular, and it also prevented scurvy over the winter.
> 
> Obviously some types of storage is needed to prevent starvation, but much of the canning we do today is done to mimic the year round availability of foods from the grocery stores.
> 
> I've read starvation in the South was a big factor in the North winning the war. Salt shortages caused huge problems as without salt people couldn't preserve pork or other meats. With the high humidity in the South dehydrating food was difficult and it didn't last very long. Canning had been invented but home canning didn't exist at that point. Interesting article on that and the substitutions people used: Cooking During The Civil War | UNC-TV ? Life-changing television


I had not read that but I know canning existed then. From a book published in 1859 Randolph B. Marcy's A Handbook for Overland Expeditions has a short discourse on it.



> Dessicated or dried vegetables are almost equal to the fresh, and ar put up in such a compact an portable form as easily to be transported over the plains. They have been extensively used in the Crimean war, and by our own army in Utah, and have been very generally approved. They are prepared by cutting the fresh vegetables into thin slices and subjecting them to a very powerful press, which removes the juice and leaves a solid cake, which, after having been thoroughly dried in an oven, becomes almost hard as a rock. A small piece of this, about half the size of a man's hand, when boiled, swells up so as to fill a vegetable dish, and is sufficient for four men. It is believed that the antiscorbutic properties of vegetables are not impaired by dessication, and they will keep for years if not exposed to dampness. Canned vegetables are very good for campaigning, but are not so portable as when put up in the other form. The dessicated vegetables used in our army have been prepared by Chollet and Co., 46 Rue Richer, Paris.


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## Redneck

Maybe I missed it, but a key to survival gardening is getting seeds that are open pollinated. Sometimes heirloom can mean that but I would not always assume it. Most modern vegetable plants sold today are hybrids, meaning the seed taken from these plants will not reproduce true. No telling what you would get. Open pollinated seeds will reproduce true, as long as you don't make your own hybrids by growing 2 different varieties of the same food next to each other. So if you have say 2 open pollinated varieties of corn, you would want to separate the plots so they they can't cross pollinate. You can also plant the 2 varieties close to each other if you stagger the planting time so they they don't set pollen at the same time.

I have some of those survival seed vaults but I'm really not a fan. Many of the varieties may not grow well in any given locale. Also, there really is not enough of the seeds needed for real survival, IMO. I put up bulk open pollinated seed, which is mostly purchased at the local feed store, just as I do my survival food. They are in the 6 gallon food grade pails, with the seed sealed inside mylar bags. I'm a big fan of companion gardening, as in a crisis you can't run down to the store for fertilizer. I'd check to see if you could grow the three sisters in your area. If so, study up on the native American's techniques & store the proper varieties for your location.


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## inceptor

******* said:


> Maybe I missed it, but a key to survival gardening is getting seeds that are open pollinated. Sometimes heirloom can mean that but I would not always assume it. Most modern vegetable plants sold today are hybrids, meaning the seed taken from these plants will not reproduce true. No telling what you would get. Open pollinated seeds will reproduce true, as long as you don't make your own hybrids by growing 2 different varieties of the same food next to each other. So if you have say 2 open pollinated varieties of corn, you would want to separate the plots so they they can't cross pollinate. You can also plant the 2 varieties close to each other if you stagger the planting time so they they don't set pollen at the same time.


I think cross pollination is one problem I've had this year.



******* said:


> I have some of those survival seed vaults but I'm really not a fan. Many of the varieties may not grow well in any given locale. Also, there really is not enough of the seeds needed for real survival, IMO. I put up bulk open pollinated seed, which is mostly purchased at the local feed store, just as I do my survival food. They are in the 6 gallon food grade pails, with the seed sealed inside mylar bags. I'm a big fan of companion gardening, as in a crisis you can't run down to the store for fertilizer. I'd check to see if you could grow the three sisters in your area. If so, study up on the native American's techniques & store the proper varieties for your location.


I've got a few packs of the survival seeds too and you are correct, not all plants will grow well in all zones. These are for emergencies or trading. I buy some locally but I buy mostly from Burpee's and Eden Brothers. Eden Brothers does sell some seeds in bulk.

Companion gardening is something I'm starting to learn about.

The Three Sisters?


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## inceptor

The Three Sisters, got it. I don't plan on growing corn. I just don't have the room.


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## Redneck

inceptor said:


> The Three Sisters, got it. I don't plan on growing corn. I just don't have the room.


The way I see it, if you don't have room for corn, you don't have enough room for self-sufficiency. But I do understand many here don't work towards that or don't currently have the room.

My sister just has raised beds in her suburban backyard. After seeing my corn grow, she dedicated one of her beds to corn this year. Problem was, she waited for her broccoli to finish, which put her planting the corn a bit late. When you do so, earworms can become a major problem. I still suggest small scale gardeners grow the crops that one day might be the difference between survival... and not. Even growing a very small plot will gain you knowledge and that IMO is the most valuable prepper resource one can have.


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## Mad Trapper

Local farm and feed store here has bulk seeds where I can buy ounces of seeds for what the seed companies sell you in less than gram packets. The 2016 seeds are now 1/2 price. Many vegetable seeds store for 3 or more years, I stock up on those cheap. I only buy non-hybrid seeds I've planted in the past.


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## killbeezseeds

another source - it says seeds viable in a container for 3 years


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## inceptor

Mad Trapper said:


> Local farm and feed store here has bulk seeds where I can buy ounces of seeds for what the seed companies sell you in less than gram packets. The 2016 seeds are now 1/2 price. Many vegetable seeds *store for 3 or more years*, I stock up on those cheap. I only buy non-hybrid seeds I've planted in the past.


I'm got seeds started that I bought about 5 years ago. They have been stored in the frig.


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## Go2ndAmend

We put up a pretty significant garden to feed the family each year. I have all kinds of seeds, some heirloom, some not. Seeds tend to store pretty well if take care of. While I do plan for the future, I recently planted a 1/2 acre of sunflowers just for the heck of it. My family enjoys watching them grow and while it is great to plan for the future, it is important to live in the present and enjoy life.


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## Yavanna

I have a small garden area, but I grow a lot of food in it. It does requires quite some effort to get going on the first place. Some companies sell seeds in cans, they are way cheaper than buying the small packets. I have some fruit trees as well, and does take a few years to start producing. 
My best take is to invest in plants you can propagate without seeds (like sweet potatoes, kale), or the greens that regrow after you cut them. As for tomatoes, that little cherry tomatoes grow like weeds around here. 
If I had the space, I would have one avocado tree in the garden, those produce a lot of fruit, without much work for me. 
And yet, some people think that gardening is too much work. Well, it is a lot of work, but it's worth it.


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