# Ammo shortage explained



## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

In a nut shell, more people are buying guns while ammunition makers are treating it like a bubble phenomena. Ammunition production is at max capacity and producers are not going to invest in new equipment and facilities until they feel comfortable that the growth they are seeing is real and not a bubble. 

Has nothing to do with the government buying ammo. That's a drop in the bucket compared to civilian demand. I'd look for an easing in 2014 when ammo producers come to the conclusion probably based on sustained gun sales that there is in fact a greater demand and respond by increasing their production capabilities. 

I would expect the cost of metals to influence the cost of ammunition for some time to come yet the availability should easy as ammunition producers invest in new plants and equipment to meet demand. 

That explanation makes a lot more sense than the conspiracy theories we've been treated to over the past year or so.


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## MikeyPrepper (Nov 29, 2012)

Ammo will be hard to get


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

People also need to stop paying the price gougers. Immediately. Had they stopped months ago, .22lr would be easy to find for just one example. The problem is there's still a market for the lazy bums with no work schedule to show up at all the stores at exactly the right time to buy it as it comes in... they then sell it to y'all for three times the price. Stop paying three times the price, and they'll have to go back to their jobs at McDonalds.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

dannydefense said:


> People also need to stop paying the price gougers. Immediately. Had they stopped months ago, .22lr would be easy to find for just one example. The problem is there's still a market for the lazy bums with no work schedule to show up at all the stores at exactly the right time to buy it as it comes in... they then sell it to y'all for three times the price. Stop paying three times the price, and they'll have to go back to their jobs at McDonalds.


Lazy bums? How about people who work swing and night shifts? Are they lazy bums? How about me, I have retired from two different careers. Am I a lazy bum because I am waiting at the door when the store opens? Doesn't it seem logical that if someone was "lazy" they would be sleeping in when the store first opens? As for someone selling that ammo to other people for 3 times the price, I wasn't aware of anyone doing that, but if they are and someone is paying to, more power to them.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

The American Rifleman has an article on this in the Jan 14 issue, you folks get that Magazine don't you?


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

After dropping the Dogs of in the pond I've come to the conclusion it's the wimmens fault.

There's now 5 million wimmen in shooting sports, up 46.5 % since 2001, according to the NSSF and American Rifleman where these statistics were gleaned while dropping off the dogs.:mrgreen:


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## concernedcitizen (Feb 25, 2013)

dannydefense said:


> People also need to stop paying the price gougers. Immediately. Had they stopped months ago, .22lr would be easy to find for just one example. The problem is there's still a market for the lazy bums with no work schedule to show up at all the stores at exactly the right time to buy it as it comes in... they then sell it to y'all for three times the price. Stop paying three times the price, and they'll have to go back to their jobs at McDonalds.


Many people are buying ammo for their first time. They have not been informed that the current prices are "high", they think that is just what it costs. They have not been educated nor have they done their due diligence to find this information.

Another potential problem is that a lot of "10%'ers" [those with incomes in the top 10%] are starting to buy guns and/or buying more guns Based on the many executives I know with six figure salaries they feel its cheaper [how they determine cheaper is a mix bag] but they find it cheaper to buy wherever they can in less than 5 minutes unless the costs is significantly more expensive [keep in mind they are six figure wage earners, so to many of them $50 and even $75 for a brick of 500 .22lr is not expensive].

Many of whom I speak of are executives at companies where it would be looked down upon them sharing this info (or at least they feel that way), so they are closet gun lovers as far as the company know and their coworkers know. This means they feel they cannot walk to the walmart and get ammo cheaply nor the lgs (unless they want to drive hours away from their homes fearing that they will be seen by co-workers, bosses, etc), that leaves them with buying over the internet (which many, if not all, of us know is hit or miss with mostly miss or buying from gunbroker or similar where its open, browse for 3 minutes to find what they want, click buy, etc. and it only takes minutes for them to get what they want.


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## Go2ndAmend (Apr 5, 2013)

I think I like the government conspiracy theory better.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

Maybe it is a combination of events that are all adding up to the shortage. Like raw materials are not being mined in the us. Manufacturers are being pressured by the epa which is causing added financial stress on production. Maybe the introduction of 400 thousand additional semi auto rifles into the market place every year that encourage rapid fire. Maybe an administration threatening our rights caused a panic ripple. Maybe that ripple caused more of a demand because people started hording. All these things if they were to happen at the same time could cause huge demand that could not be met. Maybe.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I just wish I could make arrows as fast as I can kick out a freshly loaded .45 ACP, . . . 

May God bless,
Dwight


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Notsoyoung said:


> Lazy bums? How about people who work swing and night shifts? Are they lazy bums? How about me, I have retired from two different careers. Am I a lazy bum because I am waiting at the door when the store opens? Doesn't it seem logical that if someone was "lazy" they would be sleeping in when the store first opens? As for someone selling that ammo to other people for 3 times the price, I wasn't aware of anyone doing that, but if they are and someone is paying to, more power to them.


Hit a nerve did I? I work swings and nights and all kinds of shifts too. I obviously wasn't talking about myself. You aren't in the group I was referring to either, but if you want to be offended just to be offended, be my guest.

If you haven't seen anyone selling it for three times the price, take a gander at armslist, or any local firearms classifieds where it's being sold at ridiculous markups. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it's not happening.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

concernedcitizen said:


> Many people are buying ammo for their first time. They have not been informed that the current prices are "high", they think that is just what it costs. They have not been educated nor have they done their due diligence to find this information.


Sure, that's part of the problem. I don't believe it's the sole reason or even the biggest part of it though. I'm sure there are a lot of other 'valid' reasons too, a lot of parents who just want to take their kids out plinking for example. The problem is that if all of these people stopped paying the gougers for a little bit, things would switch back a heck of a lot quicker.

If everybody stopped flying for a week, you think the TSA would be getting away with their shit? People can make their voices heard through their actions, but everybody wants to believe they can just vote every four years and that's good enough. A little off topic, but the former is a microcosm of the same mentality found in the latter.


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## retired guard (Mar 7, 2013)

I have seen ammo flippers in action both in Nevada and in Arizona in a Surprise Walmart one guy had used an app that told him 15 bulk pack .22 lr were coming in he gathered 4 family members and they camped out at the counter from 3am till 7am when it opened so they could buy all 15 boxes. The guy says sells it at a mark up he didn't say how much.


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

one of my biggest worries for moving is not having the abundant cheap ammo supply that I enjoy. and having a nice gun club. I need that too.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

shotlady said:


> one of my biggest worries for moving is not having the abundant cheap ammo supply that I enjoy. and having a nice gun club. I need that too.


If you move to Scottsdale, AZ you will have the nicest gun range in the country and you will soon see that not only is everything else overpriced in California, so is the ammo.

http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm not a lazy bum. I lived and learned the last time there was a gun ban , mag ban etc. I sold all my cheap ammo/guns and reloading supplies and got a Chevy Volt. Silly people stocking up on guns and ammo.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Chipper said:


> I'm not a lazy bum. I lived and learned the last time there was a gun ban , mag ban etc. I sold all my cheap ammo/guns and reloading supplies and got a Chevy Volt. Silly people stocking up on guns and ammo.


How she handle in the snow?


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

There are opportunists who will gouge on prices, yet that's an occurrence that coincides with scarcity. If there was a shortage on Kiwi fruit there would be somebody selling them for three times the price they would normally go for. That's just part of the landscape.

In 2008 there was a run on guns and ammunition which resulted in a shortage. It was somewhat like a bubble in that availability came back, yet not to the extent it was prior to 2008. Fast forward to 2012 and the push for bans and universal background checks. Which prompted another run on guns and ammunition. This time we're coming back sort of yet it's anemic. Why? I believe that there are folks that don't buy that much ammunition who are stocking up, there are no doubt new shooter with new guns wanting ammunition. 

The bubble of 2008 along with the 2012 run on guns and ammunition has basically created enough market demand for ammunition that even if the demand tapers off some what there is still going to be enough demand to warrant investing in the equipment and people to increase production.


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## MI.oldguy (Apr 18, 2013)

Flippers,and some of us who would pay the price at any cost.people new to the shooting sports.and the silly crap on tv.oh, and whats going on in the world today and with the current president and his minions.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Several manufacturers are already adding machines to step up supply. Bullet makers, cartridge manufacturers, and the ammo manufacturers are all stepping up but I haven't heard anything from the powder makers. It has been a tear since I have seen the six powders that I use for sale. I am not low yet but it is down to the point where I am seriously looking at a $900 purchase when it becomes available.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

PaulS said:


> Several manufacturers are already adding machines to step up supply. Bullet makers, cartridge manufacturers, and the ammo manufacturers are all stepping up but I haven't heard anything from the powder makers. It has been a tear since I have seen the six powders that I use for sale. I am not low yet but it is down to the point where I am seriously looking at a $900 purchase when it becomes available.


I _really_ have to get set up to start reloading this coming year. It's one of my resolutions.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

concernedcitizen said:


> Many people are buying ammo for their first time. They have not been informed that the current prices are "high", they think that is just what it costs. They have not been educated nor have they done their due diligence to find this information.
> 
> Another potential problem is that a lot of "10%'ers" [those with incomes in the top 10%] are starting to buy guns and/or buying more guns Based on the many executives I know with six figure salaries they feel its cheaper [how they determine cheaper is a mix bag] but they find it cheaper to buy wherever they can in less than 5 minutes unless the costs is significantly more expensive [keep in mind they are six figure wage earners, so to many of them $50 and even $75 for a brick of 500 .22lr is not expensive].
> 
> Many of whom I speak of are executives at companies where it would be looked down upon them sharing this info (or at least they feel that way), so they are closet gun lovers as far as the company know and their coworkers know. This means they feel they cannot walk to the walmart and get ammo cheaply nor the lgs (unless they want to drive hours away from their homes fearing that they will be seen by co-workers, bosses, etc), that leaves them with buying over the internet (which many, if not all, of us know is hit or miss with mostly miss or buying from gunbroker or similar where its open, browse for 3 minutes to find what they want, click buy, etc. and it only takes minutes for them to get what they want.


CocernedCitizen,
What kind of anti-success rhetoric are you spewing? Are you really blaming successful people for the ammo shortage? C'mon man? Please explain yourself a little more clearly or better yet recant your anti-American views and rethink your post.
Thank you.


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## Titan6 (May 19, 2013)

Were good here In Tennessee In my area Ive had no problems finding 5.56 ammo and 9mm the past months...


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

PaulS said:


> Several manufacturers are already adding machines to step up supply. Bullet makers, cartridge manufacturers, and the ammo manufacturers are all stepping up but I haven't heard anything from the powder makers. It has been a tear since I have seen the six powders that I use for sale. I am not low yet but it is down to the point where I am seriously looking at a $900 purchase when it becomes available.


Paul,
I saw a powder on the shelf last week that I hadn't seen in a very long time. It was Hodgdon H335. Like you I have a handful of powders that I use on a regular basis. H335 is one of them. I believe that once ammunition makers add new production the rest of the industry will follow suit. Including powder manufacturers.

I can understand the ammo makers being hesitant to expand production beyond their current capabilities. It's a very expensive undertaking. I've find most posts about ammo from outside the US. Are that ammo supplies there are normal or they are not seeing a shortage of US produced ammunition. Which leads me believe the ammo shortage is a phenomena that is occurring only in the US.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Bought the first 5.56mm today in at least a year. Paid $90 for 300 quality rounds which doesn't bug me too much. Its this holiday season, and some who "stocked up" now must by precious metals for their significant others - a few deals abound. 

In all seriousness with the OP I can't agree more; the businesses that make ammo operate on very short profit margins, the retailers have small margins, and if they can crank out some additional money on "short supplies" they are all too eager to do so. My father use to be in poultry (eggs). Some "bird flu" hit in Georgia (mind you we were in California) and suddenly eggs were .90 a dozen. You'd thought we hit the lottery around our house (this is back in the 70's). It only lasted a few months but it was a pretty cool few months when you have 300,000 chickens laying eggs.


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## lgustavus81 (Aug 12, 2013)

90 bucks for 300 rds is a damned good deal! I've been spending about 73 for 150!


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

I am spending an average of .50 a round, even when buying in bulk.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

My theory is much different than many. I don't necessarily worry about the price that I pay on any given day for ammo, I "Cost Average". For example...Since Mrs Slippy and I have been buying for years we may have X number of rounds of 5.56 at .25 per round and Y number of rounds at .35/round and Z number of rounds at .50/round. So today if we can buy some 5.56 at .45 or .60 and it seems to be a competitive price in the area that we are shopping we buy. To add it to our stores at a higher price or lower price today, only moves our average cost per round a small amount. But if I find an exceptional deal then I buy bulk. If not then a few boxes at a time. 

NOT Buying only hurts me. Same with food, water etc. In late Dec of 2012 ammo prices began to rise, we didn't stop buying, we bought on the upswing. As prices fell, we bought on the downswing. I know people that second guess every purchase they make. I don't. Have I lost "opportunity" dollars? Yes. Am I prepared for whatever may happen? Yes. 

Such is life. Live it.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Part of the reason for the last ammo shortage was panic buying. I ordered some 556 in feb and received half in july and the other half in aug. That didn't start clearing up until the fall. Even so, things aren't back to normal. 

Expect another run on ammo. With all the shootings in the news lately, I'm expecting another try at gun grabbing by the govt. If he starts that again, there will be a severe shortage.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

Seneca said:


> In a nut shell, more people are buying guns while ammunition makers are treating it like a bubble phenomena. Ammunition production is at max capacity and producers are not going to invest in new equipment and facilities until they feel comfortable that the growth they are seeing is real and not a bubble.
> 
> Has nothing to do with the government buying ammo. That's a drop in the bucket compared to civilian demand. I'd look for an easing in 2014 when ammo producers come to the conclusion probably based on sustained gun sales that there is in fact a greater demand and respond by increasing their production capabilities.
> 
> ...


Sorry didn't read all the post but IMO ammo and powder prices are coming back to normal very fast, my father just purchased common IMR powder for $22 a pound which is pre-crunch prices or very close.

Also I have purchased .223 ammo in the last month that is pre crunch prices as well (about $400 per thousand, American made, brass casings)


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## concernedcitizen (Feb 25, 2013)

Slippy said:


> CocernedCitizen,
> What kind of anti-success rhetoric are you spewing? Are you really blaming successful people for the ammo shortage? C'mon man? Please explain yourself a little more clearly or better yet recant your anti-American views and rethink your post.
> Thank you.


Direct to the point, no it was not intended to be a negative towards the 10%ers (My family is in the same tax bracket, we just do not have the same line of thought as others in the same tax bracket have and for us, sport shooting is a family activity), that title was a way to define the group for purposes of the posting. They are a contributing part of the pool that has made ammo hard to find up to scarce. Not the entire or even majority (hence the other portion of the posting that included other realistic possibility that was mentioned and done so as an opinion [but even if stated as a fact, could you refute statistics that show gun purchases by first time buyers up versus the previous years?]). What anyone does with their money I could care less, we are not attempting to try and tell anyone what to do with it (unless its tax payer money, then all taxpayers have a horse in the race).

As for the anti-american views portion of your posting. I can only ponder where you dreamed that one up from. If you think that of my posting, I could not even begin to imagine what you would think of the companies who look down upon the 2A and their employee's talking about it within company property. If there is something anti-american, that surely would be the thing/issue/topic to moan and groan about if there ever there was one


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

dannydefense said:


> Hit a nerve did I? I work swings and nights and all kinds of shifts too. I obviously wasn't talking about myself. You aren't in the group I was referring to either, but if you want to be offended just to be offended, be my guest.
> 
> If you haven't seen anyone selling it for three times the price, take a gander at armslist, or any local firearms classifieds where it's being sold at ridiculous markups. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it's not happening.


I still don't see where you come up with the "lazy bums" attitude. If they were lazy they wouldn't be standing in line first thing in the morning. As for people selling it for 3 times what it's worth, bull. If people pay that price then that's what it's worth. I personally don't see how if they were inflating the price that much how they could have much of a turn over, so I sincerely doubt that the shortage could be blamed on them. If someone is selling ammo for 3 times what it is worth, DON"T BUY IT. By the way, I have never bought ammo to re-sell it to someone else so your comment doesn't refer to me in any matter, I just thought that is was.......don't want to get kicked off for being "impolite" so I won't say anymore.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

concernedcitizen said:


> Direct to the point, no it was not intended to be a negative towards the 10%ers (My family is in the same tax bracket, we just do not have the same line of thought as others in the same tax bracket have and for us, sport shooting is a family activity), that title was a way to define the group for purposes of the posting. They are a contributing part of the pool that has made ammo hard to find up to scarce. Not the entire or even majority (hence the other portion of the posting that included other realistic possibility that was mentioned and done so as an opinion [but even if stated as a fact, could you refute statistics that show gun purchases by first time buyers up versus the previous years?]). What anyone does with their money I could care less, we are not attempting to try and tell anyone what to do with it (unless its tax payer money, then all taxpayers have a horse in the race)
> 
> As for the anti-american views portion of your posting. I can only ponder where you dreamed that one up from. If you think that of my posting, I could not even begin to imagine what you would think of the companies who look down upon the 2A and their employee's talking about it within company property. If there is something anti-american, that surely would be the thing/issue/topic to moan and groan about if there ever there was one


I think I understand now. I mistakenly thought you were blaming wealthy people for the ammo shortage. You are saying that they are only a contributing part of the pool that has made ammo scarce. I guess everyone who bought ammo since Dec. 2012 has been a contributing part of the pool, you and I included?

I'm sorry but I still don't understand what your point is about "companies looking down about the 2A and their employees talking about it". Are you saying that certain companies have voiced that they disagree with the 2A? Or are you saying that certain companies do not allow guns on their property? Or both?

I used the term anti-American because I thought you were blaming successful people for the ammo shortage. Kind of like the "occupy libs" blaming successful people for everything.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

It seems apparent to me that the ammo shortage is mixture of factors forming a "perfect storm". When the Dept of HLS orders BILLIONS of rounds ammo it is going to have an affect on availability. How would ordering 9mm and .40 cal affect the supply of .22 lr? Because they take the materials to make the .22 LR, and the people, and divert them to fill the government orders. Then we have members of the Federal and State Governments trying to pass gun control laws, some of which include proposed draconian taxes on ammo. Hearing that, many people are stocking up on ammo before the taxes drive the price through the roof. Ironically considering the forum we are on, many people are becoming to one degree to another, PREPPERS! How many people are suddenly becoming interested in buying firearms, and ammo for those firearms? People I have known for many years, who in the past seemed to think I was a little "quirky" for liking to shoot firearms, are suddenly buying guns and taking them out and shooting them. I don't know about where you live, but where I do don't even think about going to the range on the weekend. The range I go to also sells guns, ammo, and reloading supplies. The last time I went their to pick up some powder I took me almost 1/2 hour just to talk to a clerk, after having to park down the road. There was a waiting list that seemed a mile long just to get on the range to fire. I was surprised how many people were there for the fist time. Any type of gun class has a long waiting list. Classes for CC are booked for months. I guess what I am trying to say is that many people are beginning to subconsciously believe that something bad is coming down the pike and are beginning to store ammo like squirrels storing nuts for the Winter. How many of you have a couple hundred rounds of ammo? A couple of thousand? Tens of thousands? 
Then to add to the mix, lets go back to the Government. The last lead mine in the United States closed a few weeks ago in Missouri because of new EPA rules. Think that might have some affect on the cost of ammo, and affect how much ammo people are trying to buy when they hear of it? What other aspect of ammunition production is being affected by EPA rules? 
I don't think that there is one reason you can point to for the ammo shortage, but IMO allot of it can be blamed directly or indirectly on the Government.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Notsoyoung,
I agree with your summary.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

inceptor said:


> Part of the reason for the last ammo shortage was panic buying. I ordered some 556 in feb and received half in july and the other half in aug. That didn't start clearing up until the fall. Even so, things aren't back to normal.
> 
> Expect another run on ammo. With all the shootings in the news lately, I'm expecting another try at gun grabbing by the govt. If he starts that again, there will be a severe shortage.


This is the cause.
People running willy-nilly buying all available ammo in a big panic whenever a few boxes hit the shelves.
As Pogo used to say: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."


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## concernedcitizen (Feb 25, 2013)

Slippy said:


> I think I understand now. I mistakenly thought you were blaming wealthy people for the ammo shortage. You are saying that they are only a contributing part of the pool that has made ammo scarce. I guess everyone who bought ammo since Dec. 2012 has been a contributing part of the pool, you and I included?
> 
> I'm sorry but I still don't understand what your point is about "companies looking down about the 2A and their employees talking about it". Are you saying that certain companies have voiced that they disagree with the 2A? Or are you saying that certain companies do not allow guns on their property? Or both?
> 
> I used the term anti-American because I thought you were blaming successful people for the ammo shortage. Kind of like the "occupy libs" blaming successful people for everything.


Yes, imho everyone who bought ammo contributed to the shortage, but we partly because of the sheer number of "new" gun owners, the demand for ammo went skyrocketing (do not blame them [actually applaud them] for wanting to protect themselves and/or for exercising their rights under the 2A.

Both, many companies (small, medium and large) have voiced their antigun/anti-2A opinions (in various ways, such as inter-office memo, donation(s) to specific political parties, pacs, orgs, corporate policy(s) and as with many things that come from the corporate top rung of the ladder and are dropped downwards, when your paycheck is potentially at stake, how many will (with all respect intended) make waves (cannot place blame on those who want to feed their families, put clothes on their kids back, etc).

It might have been the writing style I have that threw a liquid wrench into the sprocket of previous posts that may have caused confusion, but it seems as though we were able to break the jam and get it cleared. We believe its the american worker, the guy/gal who puts in his/her 8-12 hrs a day of effort (on many occasions back breaking work) that built this country and we feel as though that model is the way that will allow this country to flourish as it once did.


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## dannydefense (Oct 9, 2013)

Notsoyoung said:


> I still don't see where you come up with the "lazy bums" attitude. If they were lazy they wouldn't be standing in line first thing in the morning. As for people selling it for 3 times what it's worth, bull. If people pay that price then that's what it's worth. I personally don't see how if they were inflating the price that much how they could have much of a turn over, so I sincerely doubt that the shortage could be blamed on them. If someone is selling ammo for 3 times what it is worth, DON"T BUY IT. By the way, I have never bought ammo to re-sell it to someone else so your comment doesn't refer to me in any matter, I just thought that is was.......don't want to get kicked off for being "impolite" so I won't say anymore.


Dear god, get over yourself. Let he without sin cast the first stone, and with that let's see some proof that you've never used colorful terminology to refer to a group of people you disagree with.

I wish pretending something wasn't happening was good enough to make it stop. I'd pretend Obama wasn't president, and I'd pretend that people didn't rob and kill for items as innocuous as an iPod. I'd pretend people who worked hard always made it to the top, and I'd pretend that criminals always got justice. I'm not creating this reality simply to call somebody names. I also have no need to convince you it's happening, but it is happening, and quite often all over the country. It's very capitalist of them, and hooray for making a quick buck! There's a lot of very good arguments for what they are doing, if one wanted to go down those roads. They're taking advantage of the situation, but they're doing it legally. My point is simple; once people stop paying the prices they're paying from the classifieds marketplace, that market will dwindle and disappear, putting a good 10-50% of certain calibers back on the shelf, depending on where you live.

I think they're a bunch of douchebags for showing up every morning and buying the ammo. Sorry that hurts your feelings, and I'm trying to give a shit that it does.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

concernedcitizen said:


> Yes, imho everyone who bought ammo contributed to the shortage, but we partly because of the sheer number of "new" gun owners, the demand for ammo went skyrocketing (do not blame them [actually applaud them] for wanting to protect themselves and/or for exercising their rights under the 2A.
> 
> Both, many companies (small, medium and large) have voiced their antigun/anti-2A opinions (in various ways, such as inter-office memo, donation(s) to specific political parties, pacs, orgs, corporate policy(s) and as with many things that come from the corporate top rung of the ladder and are dropped downwards, when your paycheck is potentially at stake, how many will (with all respect intended) make waves (cannot place blame on those who want to feed their families, put clothes on their kids back, etc).
> 
> It might have been the writing style I have that threw a liquid wrench into the sprocket of previous posts that may have caused confusion, but it seems as though we were able to break the jam and get it cleared. We believe its the american worker, the guy/gal who puts in his/her 8-12 hrs a day of effort (on many occasions back breaking work) that built this country and we feel as though that model is the way that will allow this country to flourish as it once did.


CC,
I hear you and I think that we mostly agree. I haven't worked in corporate America for some time now so I am not aware of a lot of antigun stuff from large companies directly...other than what I read about, Starbucks and crap like that. If a restaurant for example has a sign "No Guns", then I don't go there. 
Anyway, my best to you.


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