# After The Collapse - Vigilante and WROL - A Moral Look



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I posted this after thinking about an offline dialogue with a new poster here regarding alliances. This is from the Survival Series by Canadian Prepper. Mozinator has already posted the vid on the process of starvation. The 15 min videos present the topics in a thought provoking manner allowing you to think about your position.


----------



## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Jacque Of All Trades,Master Of None


----------



## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Interesting video. I am not sure I agree, totally, with his conclusions, but it was an interesting and thought provoking video.


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

I as well am not in agreeance with CP on this one, but it is indeed a gut check, just to qualify your world view and options.


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Power in numbers. But you need to have loyalty and reasonably similar mind sets. Knowing your neighbors is a first step. If you have lousy matches you may be in the wrong location.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

First this assumes the complete and total collapse of all forms of government - local, regional, state and federal. How many of you really believe that that is something that is likely to happen?


----------



## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> First this assumes the complete and total collapse of all forms of government - local, regional, state and federal. How many of you really believe that that is something that is likely to happen?


Psst ROM.... the answer to your continued questioning this scenario has been answered in "the other thread".


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> First this assumes the complete and total collapse of all forms of government - local, regional, state and federal. How many of you really believe that that is something that is likely to happen?


Considering we have already lost the federal, . . . and the state is at best shakey, . . . that leaves the local / regional, . . . which for us here in rural Ohio, . . . is the sheriff's dept.

Considering the possibility that they have no mobility, . . . and no communications: you are on your own.

That is the premise I will begin with, . . . if it is anything better than that, . . . well, then, . . . glory, halleluia, . . . and if not, . . . I'm locked and loaded.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Having some sort of "code" goes along way too! Also keep in mind, what your job was before shtf, is going to be driven by a different type of motivation in a post shtf world!! If your a doctor in post shtf, remember that your in that role to HELP people! Your no longer in business to make money! And don't think your job as a doctor is anymore important than the carpenter or mechanic! Everybody's skills will be just as important! Some might disagree, but if you don't like it, too bad! Go and be a "lone wolf" hero


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jro1 said:


> If your a doctor in post shtf, remember that your in that role to HELP people! Your no longer in business to make money! And don't think your job as a doctor is anymore important than the carpenter or mechanic! Everybody's skills will be just as important! Some might disagree, but if you don't like it, too bad! Go and be a "lone wolf" hero


I think medical and dental folks will always have "higher" place... think about it.. even primitive folks had witch doctors and medicine man.

Anybody that has had a broken bone, bronchitis, or tooth ache...will view medical folks with a certain sense of protection


----------



## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I think there are two basic groups of people, those that are problem solvers and don't fear challenges, and the I think I'm entitled group, who will survive the longest?Even small groups will have to have some sort of self imposed government. It will definitely be a different way of life.


----------



## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> I think medical and dental folks will always have "higher" place... think about it.. even primitive folks had witch doctors and medicine man.
> 
> Anybody that has had a broken bone, bronchitis, or tooth ache...will view medical folks with a certain sense of protection


I don't think they need the hype!


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> I think medical and dental folks will always have "higher" place... think about it.. even primitive folks had witch doctors and medicine man.
> 
> Anybody that has had a broken bone, bronchitis, or tooth ache...will view medical folks with a certain sense of protection


Right and Germany had Dr. Mengela


----------



## jro1 (Mar 3, 2014)

We have a big problem now with certain "class" of people! When shtf, you'd better get off that high horse and pick up a shovel or an axe! But that's just me! 
I guess what I'm trying to say, is just cause your somebody of importance, or think you are somebody of importance, doesn't mean you sit around and relax all day until you've been called to band aid a situation! I realize the importance of medicaly trained individuals, and how important they will be during that period! But I'm saying don't expect it to be a holiday!


----------



## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Well talk about Vigilante justice

__
https://flic.kr/p/1812534359


----------



## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Oh, I'm no HawgRiger, but I do some mean fairing work

https://www.google.com/search?q=vig...sAQITA&biw=1366&bih=659#imgrc=m2r1EDw0hQLWTM:


----------



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

There is allot of truth in CP's video. If you don't have the means and method for complete and total extraction, you will eventually need to build communities to become Civilized once again. Just hiding out or sheltering in place will not be enough for a protracted period of incivility/lawlessness/loss of social conscious. I have spent enough of my life in service restraining the rogue elements that thrive during such unrest, I have no desire to sacrifice of myself or my family members, so in the event of the complete collapse of Law/Society/Civility within America it's anchors aweigh. There are other lands for the kinfolk and I. Once order and civility have been restored, then it shall be time to reassess the benefits of returning. I have no intention of allowing my family members to suffer through the Kaos. This time I'll take a pass on the task of reorganizing civility. Good Luck and Godspeed to all those left behind.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

jro1 said:


> We have a big problem now with certain "class" of people! When shtf, you'd better get off that high horse and pick up a shovel or an axe! But that's just me!
> I guess what I'm trying to say, is just cause your somebody of importance, or think you are somebody of importance, doesn't mean you sit around and relax all day until you've been called to band aid a situation! I realize the importance of medicaly trained individuals, and how important they will be during that period! But I'm saying don't expect it to be a holiday!


I love how you take this to the extreme where the medical people are sitting around playing canasta while everybody slaves away in the field...

Different people know different things... and come SHTF where it is an event that REAL OLD MAN says will never happen.... people need to be retraining their replacement...that includes medical, Armorers, mechanics, etc

I do not view doctors as a class anymore then i see diesel mechanics as a class...


----------



## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

In a severe SHTF, a lot of modern medicine will rapidly disappear. Medicine may become more of a sideline and definitely more primitive. Think back 150 years or so. If we are lucky half that. Whatever your degree or place in society, field hand could be a primary occupation. I have seen highly trained, exceptionally gifted people unable to improvise for equipment or supplies they do not have. Just an observation.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> I love how you take this to the extreme where the medical people are sitting around playing canasta while everybody slaves away in the field...
> 
> Different people know different things... and come SHTF where it is an event that REAL OLD MAN says will never happen.... people need to be retraining their replacement...that includes medical, Armorers, mechanics, etc
> 
> I do not view doctors as a class anymore then i see diesel mechanics as a class...


ROM didn't say he didn't believe that a SHTF event could happen, He asked if you all really believe that. Just for the record.

Am glad to see you're back was a bit worried about you


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Camel923 said:


> In a severe SHTF, a lot of modern medicine will rapidly disappear. Medicine may become more of a sideline and definitely more primitive. Think back 150 years or so. If we are lucky half that. Whatever your degree or place in society, field hand could be a primary occupation. I have seen highly trained, exceptionally gifted people unable to improvise for equipment or supplies they do not have. Just an observation.


If it gets to the point where there is no reliable electricity, . . . X-rays, cat scans, sonograms, . . . all those "diagnostic" tests will disappear. Doc will have to rely on the symptoms he/she can see, hear, smell, feel.

Most of them I have had to deal with in the last few years will be hamstrung because of this.

Additionally, . . . just as soon as the local drug store gets looted, . . . there will be limited meds.

Dentistry will be down to a block of wood and 3 different pairs of pliers.

I have no doubt that the only survivors will be those who fell in with, and banded together with like minded folks. But I know far too many who will want to jump into the chair when the food is being passed out, . . . but have no ability or inclination to be producers or contributors.

Look around your friends and family and neighbor lists, . . . it won't take long to figure who will and who won't.

My serious plan is to lay low, . . . protect what is mine, . . . stay out of sight as much as possible, . . . and wait out at least the first few weeks if not the first few months, . . . with a small few associates.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Real Old Man said:


> First this assumes the complete and total collapse of all forms of government - local, regional, state and federal. How many of you really believe that that is something that is likely to happen?


This sort of thing often happens during war. So it is possible. Most people would never suspect societies in Canada, US, Western Europe to Collapse. Historically it has happened, and it currently has happened all around the world. With increasing cultural diversification in Europe, Can, US I think it is increasingly possible. The main issue is funding failures that are approaching, that is the economic collapse of the EU, for instance what is happening in Greece etc.. is what is forecast to happen in the US around 2030.

It is still seen as remote but it is more possible I think than an EMP or large scale nuclear war, or mega disaster. Problem is, it is still more possible than winning a lotto statistically and people win lottos all the time. (There are of course more people playing the lotto than nations playing the lotto, so the numbers are skewed a bit)

IMO prepping is graduated, you start with the basics, 72 hour kit etc.. and you work it up from there.

There already are areas in our societies that are gang run, organized crime run etc.. it is just there are also protected areas. Normally if crime gets out of control some people can fight back but areas of NewYork and LA are run mostly by organized crime, street code etc..

it is already happening it is just that the middle class can often escape those areas, it is everywhere though, just there is still government which is arguably more powerful than the criminal groups. They are only managed though, once the gov stops managing the organized crime, it will likely replace government. It is still government, but the laws/rules/codes change. Other countries have equal or greater criminal organizations. It varies. The blackmarket/greymarket takes over once the white market goes down. It is just how it works.

This is the same in areas where crime rate is high. People don't have easy access to the market due to not having the funds into it, so there is the blackmarket involving stolen items, illegal trade etc..

Once whitemarket shelves go empty people will start to obtain goods from the blackmarket shelves they might not normally get goods from. Of course those goods are coming from supply that already exists and is not legally obtainable or through channels other businesses may not have access to. It is common sense what will go on once the "system" breaks down. That would be extreme though, as there are a lot of contigency mechanisms in place. local resource, state resource, national resource, FEMA aid, military aid foreign aid etc..

It is just the scale of the issue, the bigger the issue the faster depletion of contingency resources the more extreme the response required to reduce loss of life and maintain order.

Major issues don't happen very often though and when they do, the scale they occur is well within the ability to manage the situation not to result in a collapse of gov. Even the collapse of the USSR was an organized transition. While there were food and other shortages, people made it through that collapse of government. What we see in other collapses is that a war takes over, so there is not total anarchy but people fighting over what system will replace the collapsed one.

If the economic and civil aid situations collapse a form of martial law will replace it. Out of chaos will come order, eventually should one side win or the boundaries gain de facto recognition.

You know we are seeing a tough time in Venezuela right now, still collapse is not likely, as things would only get worse without government management. However things will change as a result. These perils bring question to the status quo and people place blame on failures in the status quo, or are forced to recognize there is no better solution. Germany opted to kill people to deal with food shortages that had people starve at the end of the war. Theoretically anything can happen, it is just a question of there being scarcity that cannot be solved. That is a high order in food producers/exporters such as the US. there is lots of food. It would take a massive drought. The US is managing and planning to resolve incoming water scarcity issues. There are of course other needs, but with a global economy people can migrate and there is still an abundance of food. It would likely take a major increase in sun temps to really cause major issues on earth. Global warning still has a couple decades before it may cause major issues.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255693/Last-pictures-life-iron-curtain-collapse-USSR.html

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/02...t-an-economic-collapse-really-looks-like.html

http://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuelas-collapse-brings-savage-suffering-1455323300

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/economics/article4695935.ece

Cuba also had issues. We just may see different target groups in Capitalist states than socialist ones. In capitalist societies there are individual bigtime losers (Dead etc.), while in socialist states everyone suffers a little. Capitalist states are less prone to total collapse as they just cannibalize the weak instead. The strong survive the weak are replaced. Socialist states may decide who fails, and it may not always be the least capable just the least desirable. Both systems manage it, one manages it by financial resource, the other by social capital.

we can learn from these things. It is still so easy for us to say, nay, it can never happen to us. That is not how a prepper thinks. 
A prepper instead says, how do I prioritize this issue?


----------



## TacticalCanuck (Aug 5, 2014)

I like CP he is a hard working guy. I don't always agree with everything but I dont think he is looking to be a preacher leading a flock, that hang on his every word. 

Rather he brings up some really good questions and points of view that are designed to make you question your understanding or present one that may not have crossed your mind. 


As is the case with this video, i had not thought about being some sort of neighborhood watch for thise aound me, not seriously. 

My plan is to bug in and avoid the zombie sheep masses, and simpy defending my own. What happens if i am out and my family and home come under attack. 

I can hole up for a month easy but my home is not the most secure of places. 

I have plans to work on that in the sense that i need boards and wood and bolts piled in to cover entrances and lower floor windows thus giving my home an abandoned look. 

But my immediate neighbors can count on my help. But i wont put my house out of sight unless my family is with me in my rig and we are leaving as no other choice is available.


----------



## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

Real Old Man said:


> First this assumes the complete and total collapse of all forms of government - local, regional, state and federal. How many of you really believe that that is something that is likely to happen?


The collapse, or the absence of the Federal Government will have a cascading effect all the way down to the local level. The constitution relies on the Federal Government to enforce. Losing it, and the repercussions will felt down to the individual citizen.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> First this assumes the complete and total collapse of all forms of government - local, regional, state and federal. How many of you really believe that that is something that is likely to happen?


If people are trying to break into your house, you are not concerned about what is going on at a national, state, or county level


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

TacticalCanuck said:


> I have plans to work on that in the sense that i need boards and wood and bolts piled in to cover entrances and lower floor windows thus giving my home an abandoned look.
> 
> But my immediate neighbors can count on my help. But i wont put my house out of sight unless my family is with me in my rig and we are leaving as no other choice is available.


Plywood with about 500 nails driven up through them make a good deterent on steps, under windows, around windows


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> If people are trying to break into your house, you are not concerned about what is going on at a national, state, or county level


I think you all missed my question. Do you all really believe that there will be a total collapse in all levels of government? Now think back real hard has that ever happened? Even when Germany lost WWI while the national government was in turmoil there was still a sort of functioning government at least at the city level.

But if you all believe there will be a total collapse then I really feel very sorry for you.


----------



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Real Old Man said:


> But if you all believe there will be a total collapse then I really feel very sorry for you.


why do you feel sorry for people that believe there could be a total collapse of government.. do you think that based on that belief they will somehow act badly??


----------



## Pir8fan (Nov 16, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> First this assumes the complete and total collapse of all forms of government - local, regional, state and federal. How many of you really believe that that is something that is likely to happen?


New Orleans was close after Katrina. In the first few days, government services, including police and fire, were non-existent. There was no power, very little water, very little food. We all saw what happened there.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Pir8fan said:


> New Orleans was close after Katrina. In the first few days, government services, including police and fire, were non-existent. There was no power, very little water, very little food. We all saw what happened there.


Actually that's not quite what happened. What happened is that two governments (local and state) refused to acknowledge that they had a problem of a magnitude they couldn't handle. Especially with regards to evacuating the citizenry to safe areas.

Across the river government services did not break down and they got hit probably harder than NO.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> why do you feel sorry for people that believe there could be a total collapse of government.. do you think that based on that belief they will somehow act badly??


For once I tend to agree with Will2 in his very on spot assessment. We haven't seen a total break down or collapse of a government in well over 100 years or more.

As for feeling sorry for you folks, I believe that your outlook reflects very poorly on most folks that prepare for bad situations that can and do occur. In some of your cases - don't think you are one - it's almost as if you are really wanting a total collapse/anarchy to occur. One of you almost sounded gleeful about a 90% death rate here after an emp strike.

So take missives with a grain of salt. Or not.


----------



## M118LR (Sep 19, 2015)

The size/totality of the Natural disaster shall have an effect on the response of Government Agencies. When Yosemite blows the Government will be stretched near the breaking point. If the Madrid Fault activates due to an eruption at Yosemite, it may well be every man for themselves. Hopefully, this won't happen in my lifetime. ROM I've already stated that I want no part of a Government breakdown for my family or myself.


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

The events folks talk about all could happen. How likely? If I were a Vegas odds maker (for you northerners that would be a bookie) I'd give 70 to one at least one each to happen over a year and at the end I'd end up one very rich person. More likely is a local disaster - Katrina, Sandy, San Bernadino and the like - that affects a large number of folks (Boston Marathon bombing) causes the rest of us to go oops, but not really impact most of us.


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> The events folks talk about all could happen. How likely? If I were a Vegas odds maker (for you northerners that would be a bookie) I'd give 70 to one at least one each to happen over a year and at the end I'd end up one very rich person. More likely is a local disaster - Katrina, Sandy, San Bernadino and the like - that affects a large number of folks (Boston Marathon bombing) causes the rest of us to go oops, but not really impact most of us.


The real problem as I see it is not the "collapse" so to speak of the forces, organizations, etc, . . . but the misinterpretation of their "duties" and assignment in such a problem.

Take for instance the gun confiscation during Katrina, . . . I would have been shot dead, . . . period. No butt-wipe politician is making the decision that I can't keep my guns and protect my family.

The national guardsman who levels his M-4 on my friends or family will be shot dead, . . . then, there, no questions asked.

Then there was the problem at the football stadium, . . . putting hundreds of folks in there, . . . expecting the thugs to suck their thumbs and be nice for a change, . . . just does not happen, . . . and there are not enough deputy sheriff's or local police to handle such a situation.

No, . . . I certainly do not want for it to happen. I survived 3 trips to Vietnam, . . . and would just as soon not see some of the things again that I saw there. But at the same time, I am not sticking my head in the sand, . . . . thinking Uncle Sugar will be my savior. They have proved all to often to be more of the problem than the cure.

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Olaf (Feb 5, 2016)

I must say that video is really good. And I must say that I agree with Will2. This is precisely what is going on with people. I can say that mainly people are doing thing by them selves or maybe with some friend. There is no community cooperation. I see this in village that I live. There are around 160 people living and we have once a year on a Christmas small escarpment, you now just to sit down with neighbors and talk, drink a vine, eat some food. But from 160 people we are there maybe 40. And between these 40 people there are maybe 10 opened for talk. So imagine how it would looks like in SHTF situation. This is terrible and very sad. And what is even more sad is that this is not only our village situation. It is every where same. I'm talking for Czech republic situation. But I'm sure that this kind of situation is similar in many countries in Europe.
People here are slowly getting that there is something very very wrong but they can´t do anything with the situation that is slowly killing us. Many people says that it will be war but interesting is that nobody would go to fight. There is nothing to fight for. Government is corrupted and people are not proud of the country where they live. Everybody just say that they are willing to defend there house. That's it. So there is no wonder that Europe is going down. Politicians are not patriots, they lead very poorly countries, there is big corruption, people are having more and more difficult time to live .... So if SHFT meets Europe situation will be very bad. But maybe on the other hand there is possibility to find once again true values of life and go back to the roots where community was healthy and where people lived with each other and for each other ......


----------



## SittingElf (Feb 9, 2016)

Real Old Man said:


> The events folks talk about all could happen. How likely? If I were a Vegas odds maker (for you northerners that would be a bookie) I'd give 70 to one at least one each to happen over a year and at the end I'd end up one very rich person. More likely is a local disaster - Katrina, Sandy, San Bernadino and the like - that affects a large number of folks (Boston Marathon bombing) causes the rest of us to go oops, but not really impact most of us.


.

The events you mention are REGIONAL and not national. The events that will cause a breakdown of the entire government include a high altitude EMP, or Coronal Mass Ejection hit. A new Race war. Invasion or mass coordinated terrorist attack. Yellowstone, etc.

When the government cannot "rescue" the masses, and the transportation system is idled.....the chain reaction of scared and hungry masse will cause a total collapse. JMHO.


----------



## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

there is one thing I do not have for when SHTF ,, a gas mask ,, need to look into that ,, there are some nights now I wish I had one ,lmao " dog farts " are killer .


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Targetshooter said:


> there is one thing I do not have for when SHTF ,, a gas mask ,, need to look into that ,, there are some nights now I wish I had one ,lmao " dog farts " are killer .


pizzzzz on your handkerchief. also save and crush your peach pits


----------



## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Real Old Man said:


> pizzzzz on your handkerchief. also save and crush your peach pits


Pizz I can figure,..............

Uhhh, . . . what's up with the peach pits, . . . other than them being a tasty little morsel??

May God bless,
Dwight


----------



## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> Pizz I can figure,..............
> 
> Uhhh, . . . what's up with the peach pits, . . . other than them being a tasty little morsel??
> 
> ...


during world war I they were used in some gas mask canisters.


----------

