# For defense sandbags are the most overlooked SHTF item. Must see video



## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Sandbags could be used inside the house to make a safe room, stacked around the window for observation especially if you had a periscope. Put out a fire bomb if one made it through the window, used to protect from nuclear fallout. Now if I just knew where to by sand bags, well I guess garbage bags would work just as well.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

it's been almost 43 years since I filled and stacked sandbags. I will go to my grave a very happy man if I never see another one ever again.
Yes, they work, but you need a bunch. 
FWIW - they are not cheap. I have seen military grade ones go for a dollar apiece.


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## 9UC (Dec 21, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> it's been almost 43 years since I filled and stacked sandbags. I will go to my grave a very happy man if I never see another one ever again.
> Yes, they work, but you need a bunch.
> FWIW - they are not cheap. I have seen military grade ones go for a dollar apiece.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> it's been almost 43 years since I filled and stacked sandbags. I will go to my grave a very happy man if I never see another one ever again.
> Yes, they work, but you need a bunch.
> FWIW - they are not cheap. I have seen military grade ones go for a dollar apiece.


I found a site that sells them around $70 dollars per hundred, but what I think is just as important is the fact that a foot of sand will stop most common bullets, whether it packed between two plywood boards or in sand bags. When gun powder put an end to castles they found one of the best defenses was earthen mounds that were used extensively during the civil war.
Packaging Supplies,Shipping Supplies,Plastic Bags,Poly Bags,Boxes


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

I should think the type of sand is important, otherwise it'd start trickling out through the bullet holes if it's too fine.
Personally I'd prefer diving into a "safe box" made of steel plates when bullets start coming through the house.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

Several of those rounds will penetrate your steel plate unless it is greater than 1/2".


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

roy said:


> Several of those rounds will penetrate your steel plate unless it is greater than 1/2".


Okay let's use stuff thicker than 1/2" and hope the zombs haven't got bazookas..
Also a steel box might be cheaper than sandbags, it's not a new idea, many Brit homes had these Morrison Shelters in their homes in WW2 (below) to dive into during air raids, they were meant to give the family protection if the house collapsed on top of them. If we built something like it nowadays as a "Home Refuge" we'd make sure the steel was at least thick enough to be proof against handguns, and we'd also get rid of the mesh sides and use steel plate with a few air holes punched in it-










PS- An Israeli family built this sandbag "nest" for protection and it also neatly doubles as furniture for sitting on-


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

I would never allow myself to get pinned down into a situation that sand bags would be an issue. 
Major fubar if that happened.


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## Tripper52 (Dec 8, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> I should think the type of sand is important, otherwise it'd start trickling out through the bullet holes if it's too fine.
> Personally I'd prefer diving into a "safe box" made of steel plates when bullets start coming through the house.


A steel box would transmit the concussion wave to the occupants inside, resulting in a mess inside. An earthen berm or sandbags would spread the force out uniformly and slowly


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

9UC said:


>


Been there...done that! I am feeling both of you guys in a most major kind of way.


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## LunaticFringeInc (Nov 20, 2012)

There are quiet a few sites on the web that sell them, sale them at reasonable prices and in bulk as well as by the pallet if you need them that way. They range from Tan, OD Green to International Orange and probably just about every other color under the rainbow. They are excellent for protection against bullets and floods or erosion. They do have a few short comings that you have to keep in mind.

1. Even the ones with UV protection in the material will deteriorate in a matter of just a few months when exposed to sun light. In the pacific North West they would likely last a good year or there abouts. In Arizona or West Texas...maybe 3-4 months! Just something to keep in mind.

2. Sand Bags are HEAVY! Before you go and stack them inside the house...make sure the structure can support the horrendous weight load even a single layer will create. If I were going to use them I would strongly suggest you use them outside the window between your home and your nice pretty well trimmed hedges. Weight wont be nearly an issue and the bushes will give them some protection from the suns UV rays extending their life considerably. Due to the weight...while they might be okay on the first floor if your on a slab foundation the second story of a house is probably going to be a no-go if you use enough to do you any good.

Someone mention earth berms in the civil war being used. These are brutally effective, can be made much thicker and will give your home some protection from fire, high straight line winds, being rammed with a vehicle and a whole host of other nasty ideas someone might think of. If it were me, I would build raised beds using cinder bricks or quarry stone for a more asthetic look around my home or at least in various strategic areas. Not only would it be very effective it might also raise the value of your home as well which is always a added plus. If times get really tough you can rip out the Indian Hawthorn, Holly or Rose bushes from them and plant edible landscaping in them. I like me some options, they are great to have you dont have to always use them but its nice to know they are there if you need them. They might cost a bit more than sand bags, but youd only have to do it once. Additionally this is something you can do a little here and a little there until you have it all done and it would look a lot nicer than a dump truck load of sand sitting in your back yard taking up space for "just in case".

Thats just my Buck O' Five...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

There are some smells that remain forever in the subconscious, awaiting the proper stimulation to break forth. 
Such as the smell of the cabin of a Huey. Ever notice they all smelled the same?
This thread has reminded me of the smell inside a sandbag bunker in the tropics. That rates right up there with the burning of the shitters (just ask a Nam vet about that).
If you are planning on using sandbags inside the home you are either single, or will be soon.:lol:


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## shotlady (Aug 30, 2012)

here in los angeles you can go to the fire dept and pick up sand bags even during off season they have plenty and like to hand out to residents to have on hand for flooding.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Nam sandbags


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## Verteidiger (Nov 16, 2012)

I like the idea of having sand bag sacks on hand, empty and available to fill if the need arises. They work well against flooding. You can just use dirt to fill them although sand shovels easier.

Stacked deep and in multiple rows they work to stop bullets from most guns. I saw a Ma Deuce (M2) .50 caliber machine cut loose on a sandbagged machine gun nest. It tore those sand bags to shreds, literally blowing them backwards in puffs of exploding sand. It offered no cover whatsoever, really. So if you are up against one if those, get ready to haul a$$ because your cover is about to be obliterated....

Here in the South, me and the boys practice dropping trees (we saw down dead pine trees infested with powder post beetles) and cover the trunk with dirt on either side. Cut into manageable sections, you can roll them around (a log peavy helps) and you can line up two side by side, anchor them by packing dirt (our famous red clay is perfect for this) against them, and then lever one trunk on top to make a nice two to three foot high stack, which you can then bury in dirt and hunker down behind. You can build very defensible revetments this way, and make a safe place to camp out behind a square of these.

It is a back breaking exercise without the right equipment. But we do this so we know how, and then we shoot against it to test how well it holds up. I am comfortable getting behind these. Unless your opponent has a tank or flamethrowers or helicopters or bombs....

We do this on private land, obviously. But it works great - you need a chainsaw and some burly ol' corn-fed boys to help build it.

If you cannot build such revetments sand bags would work for awhile. But when sand bags get wet, they start to grow mildew. Then they turn green from the mildew, and then they start to get slimy and stink like...well, you get the idea.

Sandbagging indoors would work on a slab foundation, but all you are doing is building a box inside a structure that will burn. Not good....

If you're gonna sand bag, find a good spot outdoors. Buy some plastic sheeting and cover your sandbag structure, and hold the plastic down with more sandbags - this will keep the bags from getting wet and slimy/stinky. And build enough safe zones where you can move back to a new position and continue fighting, because a static position against people who can shoot is a sitting duck target. Eventually you WILL have to move.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

shotlady said:


> here in los angeles you can go to the fire dept and pick up sand bags even during off season they have plenty and like to hand out to residents to have on hand for flooding.


Great sales possibility. get from FD and sell on line...


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

A note on sandbags used for radiological defense (fallout protection). They need a firm base or they will collapse on you. You need a minimum of 200 pounds per square foot - about two feet of sand to protect you from around 80% of the radiation. That leaves 20% getting through but another 200 pounds (a total of four feet) will protect you from 80% of the 20% so only about 4% will get through. That is pretty good protection.
A 3006 or 308 metal piercing round will go through about 16" of sand and a 50 cal BMG - you don't have enough sand! Solid bullets will penetrate further than the hunting and soft cored bullets in the demonstation but most light bullets will slow to the point where they are not likely to be lethal - at least not before the infection kills you.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

One of the least expensive ways to build a structure is "EarthBag Construction," which are basically... sandbags. OK, maybe not sand exactly, there has to be a certain clay content so you can ram the earth and it packs. In EBC, they typically lay a row of bags, then place 2 rows of barbed wire on the bags, then place another row of bags on top of the wire. The barbs dig into the bags and keep everything from shifting. Once done, the walls are plastered.






Earthbag structures are cheap, relatively easy to build, fireproof, bulletproof, use materials either found on site or easy to pack in, and have lots of thermal mass. If you are considering building a shelter at your BOL, it's worth looking into.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Leaving wood in contact with concrete is bad for the wood - it decomposes super fast. That is why the forms are removed from foundations. He is going to regret leaving that wood between the window frame and the concrete because he will end up with a gap and a rotting frame in short order. I also question what keeps the wall from falling over? (in or out in relation to the room) I thought in this form of construction they used rebar through the bags and into the ground a few feet to give them the stability needed.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

1000 Green Sandbags Ties 14x26 Sandbag Bags Sand Bags Military Grade Flood | eBay

I did a lot of research into sandbags a couple years back and found eBay was the best price for smaller quantities, the ad above is for 1000 bags for $250 delivered or 25 cents each.

i think the best application is to reinforce window shooting positions In a home, every home has 4 sides and the most logical spot with the most area of fire will be a good place to use sandbags.

If you decide to reinforce with steel I suggest a double layer separated by air space, for instance a 1/4" plate (then a space) and a 1/4" plate will give more protection than a 1/2" solid plate. The first plate will deform the bullet enough for the 2nd plate to defeat it.

The .50 BMG round or bigger is not something anyone wants to contemplate or try to defeat, let us keep this within the realm of possibilities, but a 22 pound rifle with $5 a round ammo is not likely to be seen. If you see one, the gunner will not live very long, search M-60 average life Vietnam for a correlation.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Rancher, I wouldn't have mentioned it except that a friend has one. He doesn't know yet what he wants it for but he is proud as a peacock that he owns it. He has fired it and likes it but he is having problems finding places to shoot it.
I told him to ask the range if he could fire it from off the property to a target at the 300 yard stands - that way he could practice at over 1000 yards.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

PaulS said:


> Leaving wood in contact with concrete is bad for the wood - it decomposes super fast. That is why the forms are removed from foundations. He is going to regret leaving that wood between the window frame and the concrete because he will end up with a gap and a rotting frame in short order. I also question what keeps the wall from falling over? (in or out in relation to the room) I thought in this form of construction they used rebar through the bags and into the ground a few feet to give them the stability needed.


I'm not an expert on Earthbag construction, but the corners are tied together, which would help stabilize them. Foot thick walls don't just fall over by themselves, it would take a lot of force to topple this (or any other) wall. Finally, the roofing system would also tie the the whole structure together.

This guy seems to be deviating from "standard" earthbag construction anyway. There are methods which have proven reliable over time. I just linked that video to give some idea of what's possible. I think earthbag construction is a viable low cost building method that could be a valuable tool for any prepper.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Montana Rancher said:


> 1000 Green Sandbags Ties 14x26 Sandbag Bags Sand Bags Military Grade Flood | eBay
> 
> I did a lot of research into sandbags a couple years back and found eBay was the best price for smaller quantities, the ad above is for 1000 bags for $250 delivered or 25 cents each.
> 
> ...


Better than air between 1/4 in. plates fill the space with sand. Actual test show two thin sheets less than 1/8 inch thick and 8 inches of sand between them will stop almost all 50 cal. BMG rounds. 
http://bastogneblastprotection.com/assets/50cal.pdf


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## Dirvin (May 17, 2013)

This is new to me anyway. It might be expensive but for me anyway is really the only option.

Video Landing Page - Houston weather, traffic, news | FOX 26 | MyFoxHouston

Just in case that link gets deleted at some point, here is the link to the company's website. 
FloodSax sandless sandbags & sandbag alternatives


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## Doc Holliday (Dec 22, 2012)

If I was staying where I am then sandbags may be a good thing to have, but I will be leaving my area as soon as I see the warning signs.... I will get to higher ground in the mountains early so I can get there with all of my stuff that I will need to survive. I have enough enough powder, primers, cases and lead to where I can hunt for the rest of my life and down to my great grandchildren and maybe beyond! My next thing is to purchase an old muzzle loader as I know how to make black powder and can get the ingredients pretty cheap.


Doc


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

If you get sandbags, ya gotta have sand to fill them. What is that solution? Have a big pile of sand dumped in your yard?
Unless you live where sand is plentiful,(free), sand could be a big expense.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> it's been almost 43 years since I filled and stacked sandbags. I will go to my grave a very happy man if I never see another one ever again.


Last ones I filled were in '66 for sure, . . . maybe '67, . . . and yeah, . . . I could do just like him , . . . and never use one again.

PLUS: If I recollect correctly, . . . ours came out at about 6 inches tall and 20 inches long. Each weighed something like 65 pounds.

Correlate that to a front wall in your house, . . . 40 feet long, . . . stacked 4 feet high: you will need almost 200 bags and the aggregate weight will add about 12,000 pounds of weight to the floor of your house.

Unless my house was built on a slab, . . . I wouldn't even think of it.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Tundra Dweller (May 18, 2013)

If your looking for protection at the window areas pull the bottom four feet of drywall and hang a four foot tall piece of 1/4 inch sheet steel on the studs. Hang drywall on top of that sheet. Then install another sheet of steel, Over lapping the first and second sheet of steel. Then install wainscoting over top with a chair rail finish at the top. Out of sight out of mind. Just take pictures and measure how far the sheets go so you know your fairly safe on where your sitting when/if shtf...


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

So, anyone have the solution to having the sand to fill bags?


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

tango said:


> So, anyone have the solution to having the sand to fill bags?


We buy sand to replace what is lost when we fork the manure out of the horse stalls. We get fine yellow sand (Florida stuff) for $150 per 8 yard load, delivered.
Of course, a pile of sand in your front yard is bound to pique someones interest if you live in the suburbs.
Out here it's a common sight.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm in Florida too, was wondering about the folks away from sandy areas. Piles of sand dumped in your yard will draw questions for sure


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