# Canning Post SHTF



## Green Lilly

All- I have been working the last couple of years to get more proficient in canning. I got the veggies and fruits down pretty good and my pasta sauce actually turned out edible this year. I have ventured into drying and freezing as well. 

My question relates to the single use Ball lids that go on the jar. I got to thinking, as I was replenishing my stock of lids this year, what would I do if I no longer could run out to the store and purchase new lids. I don't think stocking up is an option because I am sure the rubber only lasts so long before it becomes too brittle to seal. 

Anyone have any other methods in their tool kit for canning if you cannot get the ball lids?


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## jimb1972

There are reusable lids with a rubber gasket they go by the brand name Tattler. I have not tried them yet, but maybe someone here has.


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## dwight55

I have a pretty good stock of them myself, . . . and have always figured that if push come shove, . . . I would try to reuse them. 

As long as the metal "pops" down in the center, . . . I figure I've got a good seal, . . . and would go with it.

Also, . . . the older zinc / glass lids used a big flat rubber seal, . . . push come shove again, . . . I'd cut em out of innertubes, . . . gasket material, . . . anything that looks like it would make a good seal. 

But I think I would also be doing a lot more drying and pickling than I do now. Neither process is dependent upon sealing lids.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Demitri.14

I remember my mom using paraffin wax to seal jellies and jams. It seemed to work.


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## Demitri.14

I remember my mom using paraffin wax to seal jellies and jams. It seemed to work.


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## Mad Trapper

My Mother passed away a few years ago and she canned all of her life, although not for a while before she passed. 

When cleaning out her house I found many canning supplies, many USA made mirromatic pressure canners/cookers, even some quite old canned goods in the cellar that were still fine to eat. There were many boxes of new lids that were pretty old, just by looking at the boxes. I've used these the last few years without any sealing issues. I'd say if you wanted to stock up do so when they go on sale. Store in a cool dry dark place. In ziplocks or vac sealed might be best.

For SHTF besides lids, make sure you have any gaskets you might need for the canner(s). Don't forget a means to heat the canner. My grandmother canned for years on a Glenwood woodstove. That's something to think about.


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## Illini Warrior

Green Lilly said:


> All- I have been working the last couple of years to get more proficient in canning. I got the veggies and fruits down pretty good and my pasta sauce actually turned out edible this year. I have ventured into drying and freezing as well.
> 
> My question relates to the single use Ball lids that go on the jar. I got to thinking, as I was replenishing my stock of lids this year, what would I do if I no longer could run out to the store and purchase new lids. I don't think stocking up is an option because I am sure the rubber only lasts so long before it becomes too brittle to seal.
> 
> Anyone have any other methods in their tool kit for canning if you cannot get the ball lids?


definitely invest in some Tattler lids - learn how to can with them - there's a learning curve to the canning differences ....

if you buy a bulk lot of the regular Ball canning lids - divide them into yearly use quantities - seal the lots into mylar bagging and 02 absorber - then protect the mylar bagged lots in a sealed poly bucket along with a desiccant pack for moisture control >>>>> lids should last 20+ years without a problem


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## RJAMES

There is a reason why they stopped using hte Zinc lids and rubber seals. I would never use them. For jams you can use parrifin . 

Buy up a supply of canning lids , store lke Illini Warrior says. Keep buying a years supply while you use the oldest of your stock. IF you never use them no problem you can sell in your estate sale.


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## Back Pack Hack

Silly me, but.............

What difference is it to the seal material itself if it's sitting in a cardboard box on a shelf as opposed to being used and sealing up a jar?


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## Elvis

Demitri.14 said:


> I remember my mom using paraffin wax to seal jellies and jams. It seemed to work.


My mother also used paraffin wax to seal her world famous tomato jam which I loved. But a year later some of the jam had mold on it.


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## Elvis

jimb1972 said:


> There are reusable lids with a rubber gasket they go by the brand name Tattler. I have not tried them yet, but maybe someone here has.


I looked at the pricing but considering 12 Tattler lids and seals or 72 Ball lids at the same price I'd go with the Ball spare lids. If a person was looking for 6+ years of lids and didn't damage/lose them the Tattlers would probably be worth considering.


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## Elvis

Back Pack Hack said:


> Silly me, but.............
> 
> What difference is it to the seal material itself if it's sitting in a cardboard box on a shelf as opposed to being used and sealing up a jar?


The sealing material appears to be red rubber which cracks in a few years.


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## Back Pack Hack

Elvis said:


> The sealing material appears to be red rubber which cracks in a few years.


So why doesn't it crack when it's sealing a jar?


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## Elvis

Back Pack Hack said:


> So why doesn't it crack when it's sealing a jar?


I suspect it's an oxidizing process but really don't know. All I know is that the red rubber gaskets on my beer bottles go bad after a few years even once out of their plastic bag. I guess I need to do some research.


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## Back Pack Hack

Elvis said:


> I suspect it's an oxidizing process but really don't know. All I know is that the red rubber gaskets on my beer bottles go bad after a few years even once out of their plastic bag. I guess I need to do some research.


The reason I ask is back in the late '70s, my dad and two uncles found the root cellar on the farm their dad was raised on in the 20's. All the buildings had been torn down so there were no landmarks go go by, but they went by memory and estimated where it would be. We found a couple dozen jars of canned veggies and the seals were still good. My great-grandmother's writing on them indicated they were from the '30s and '40s.

Granted, they were basically buried, but not in contact with the earth. Just the entrance to the cellar became so overgrown that it was impossible to even know it was there unless one knew of it's existence. So they were stored in a very consistent environment away from sunlight and UV rays. But 30-40 years later, they were still sealed.

One uncle opened a jar of pickles and despite it being a bit bland, seemed OK.


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## jimb1972

I asked a seller a few questions on Amazon about their product, they are a stainless mason jar lid with a silicone seal for storage. The seller offered to send me a few to try, I will create a thread on here with the results, depending on how many they send I will try water bath and pressure and let you know. The only thing that concerns me is the stainless might be too thick to suck in and show if it's sealed, it is a one piece lid so checking the seal is not possible, except possibly by tapping with a spoon.


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## Green Lilly

All good ideas. I wondered about the paraffin but sounds like it would only be good for fruit jams? I think I will stock up on the ball lids and store them like Illini suggested. Would make me feel better to have a few years worth set back.


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## Mad Trapper

Green Lilly said:


> All good ideas. I wondered about the paraffin but sounds like it would only be good for fruit jams? I think I will stock up on the ball lids and store them like Illini suggested. Would make me feel better to have a few years worth set back.


Wax was/is the classic way to seal up jams and jellies. Both are high acid and high sugar so don't need canning. You should still try to be as sterile as possible with the jars and the preparation.

Paraffin is handy for lots of other things like candles or a lubricant.


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## jimb1972

Mad Trapper said:


> Wax was/is the classic way to seal up jams and jellies. Both are high acid and high sugar so don't need canning. You should still try to be as sterile as possible with the jars and the preparation.
> 
> Paraffin is handy for lots of other things like candles or a lubricant.


Also if you fill a cardboard egg carton with dryer lint and pour wax over it you can make a dozen excellent fir starters.


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## hawgrider

Mad Trapper said:


> Wax was/is the classic way to seal up jams and jellies. Both are high acid and high sugar so don't need canning. You should still try to be as sterile as possible with the jars and the preparation.
> 
> Paraffin is handy for lots of other things like candles or a lubricant.


Wax was how my grandma did jams and jellies. Seems I read the blue book Nazis say thats no longer a accepted method.

Here is one source-



> Paraffin or wax sealing of jars is no longer considered an equally acceptable choice for
> any sweet spread, including jellies. Any pinholes, shrinkage or cracks in the wax paraffin allow
> airborne molds to contaminate and grow on the product. In addition, leaks or holes in the
> paraffin can allow product to seep out during storage. Once on the surface, this seeping product
> will provide nutrients for molds to grow on the surface and enter into the jam or jelly in the jar.


https://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/uga/uga_processing_j_j.pdf

Another-



> Paraffin or wax is no longer an acceptable method for sealing jars of jams and jellies. Wax paraffin can shrink, crack or have pinholes that allow product to seep out onto the surface, creating mold that can enter into the jam or jelly. The method of inverting (turning the filled jar upside down on its lid) is also not effective in sealing out potential contaminates. If the inversion process does work, the vacuum seals of filled jars still tend to be weaker than those produced in a boiling water canning process.


 https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/processing_jams_and_jellies


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## jimb1972

Elvis said:


> I suspect it's an oxidizing process but really don't know. All I know is that the red rubber gaskets on my beer bottles go bad after a few years even once out of their plastic bag. I guess I need to do some research.


I wonder if mineral oil would extend the life by preventing or slowing oxidation.


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## Mad Trapper

A lot of my canning jars are used 24-26 oz Mason spaghetti sauce jars. I save all the 1-piece used lids and they are excellent for dried goods or jellies.

Dried goods like mushrooms, spices, rice, etc. I put the filled jars, with cap on loose, in the oven on very low heat for ~10-15 minutes. When warm, I take them out I tighten the lids and let cool. Nearly all seal, pull a vacuum, and the lids pop down. No vacuum sealer needed. Have stored dried wild mushrooms (hen of the woods) for years like this and they are still good, if stored with my canned goods in the cellar (cool and dark).

Those 1-piece used lids are also useful to cap jars to store stuff like sugar and coffee, and make what's inside mouse/vermin/insect proof.


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## JustAnotherNut

Resurrecting this thread in case anyone is wondering...

And just to be clear...…..I have been canning for about 40 of my 60 years. 39 of those years was open kettle(hot food, hot jars, hot lids, NO processing) & water bath only. Just last year I acquired an older 22qt Presto pressure canner and have expanded my repertoire to include taters, squash & dry beans. With the WB, I have done raw pack meat and veggies, but now do them with the PC. I've never had a problem with the quality of the food canned, though have had an occasional seal failure that was caught right away and either used or refrigerated. And other than fruit or salsa, the rest was always cooked or boiled 15 minutes before eating. So, this list is from my own experiences with canning and your own mileage may vary. I don't recommend breaking any of the 'USDA approved canning practices or rules', unless you are experienced and know what the heck you're doing. Just providing information that may come in handy SHTF and your options have become limited. 


Tattler lids...….rather expensive investment up front, but lids can be used indefinitely...until the cap or rubber seal breaks so will pay for itself within a year or two. Major learning curve from metal lids. I bought a bunch in bulk from their website and I've had about 60/40 success/failure rate, which so far, I'm not happy about, but still learning how this works. 

Metal lids....can be reused as long as it or the rubber seal isn't damaged in any way and it can still make 100% contact with the jar rim. So be careful when taking off the lid so you don't damage it for possible future use. Do NOT reuse if the lid is bent in any way, or the lid shows thru the rubber seal or the seal becomes too thin. 

Heating metal lids......used to be done to soften the rubber so when it's put on the jar, it would create a full seal. (heat expands/cool shrinks). Nowadays, it's no longer recommended to heat the lids, especially with the 'SureTight' lids. The rubber compound has been changed in some way and that makes me a bit unnerved, to try to reuse these new lids. 

Store bought food jars & bottles.....such as pasta sauce, pickles, salsa, taco sauce and whatever else. I have reused these jars but only for high acid foods and/or I put in similar to what came out. Make sense? If the jar was purchased for pasta or tomato sauce, then I'll use it to can the same, usually. I don't use old mayo jars anymore since I've had a few break during processing. 

Water Bath canners.....if for whatever reason you don't have a WB canner or you need to run a second canner but don't have an extra......a large pot that is tall enough to hold enough water to cover the tallest jars with 1-2 inches of water will work, just be sure to keep the jars off the bottom of the pot. If you don't have a jar rack, a towel will work in a pinch. 

Pressure canners have parts that may break or wear out and need a pressure check.....most brands (except All American) need a rubber gasket that can wear out over time......roughly every 5 years or so. Also, gauges need to be checked for accuracy and possibly replaced and same for rubber plug and vent. Not sure how to DIY these maintenance tasks, any suggestions???


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## paraquack

Here is another reusable canning lid, I'ver heard about. Sorry, no real experience with the brand.
https://canninglids.com/information/


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## paulag1955

hawgrider said:


> Wax was how my grandma did jams and jellies. Seems I read the blue book Nazis say thats no longer a accepted method.
> 
> Here is one source-
> 
> https://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/uga/uga_processing_j_j.pdf
> 
> Another-
> 
> https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/processing_jams_and_jellies


Right? But when I was a little girl, we just scraped off the mold and ate the jam anyway.


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## JustAnotherNut

paulag1955 said:


> Right? But when I was a little girl, we just scraped off the mold and ate the jam anyway.


We've done the same with things like cheese....just cut off the bad parts and eat the rest. Nothing wrong with it, though my kids have freaked out over it.


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## paulag1955

jimb1972 said:


> I wonder if mineral oil would extend the life by preventing or slowing oxidation.


They would have to be carefully washed prior to use. I think either vacuum sealing them or putting them in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers would be better. And stored in an environment where they wouldn't be subject to heat extremes.


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## paulag1955

JustAnotherNut said:


> We've done the same with things like cheese....just cut off the bad parts and eat the rest. Nothing wrong with it, though my kids have freaked out over it.


My daughters were all fine with cutting the mold off cheese, but I could not convince the youngest that it was okay to scrape the mold off jam.


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## Annie

JustAnotherNut said:


> Resurrecting this thread in case anyone is wondering...
> 
> And just to be clear...&#8230;..I have been canning for about 40 of my 60 years. 39 of those years was open kettle(hot food, hot jars, hot lids, NO processing) & water bath only. Just last year I acquired an older 22qt Presto pressure canner and have expanded my repertoire to include taters, squash & dry beans. With the WB, I have done raw pack meat and veggies, but now do them with the PC. I've never had a problem with the quality of the food canned, though have had an occasional seal failure that was caught right away and either used or refrigerated. And other than fruit or salsa, the rest was always cooked or boiled 15 minutes before eating. So, this list is from my own experiences with canning and your own mileage may vary. I don't recommend breaking any of the 'USDA approved canning practices or rules', unless you are experienced and know what the heck you're doing. Just providing information that may come in handy SHTF and your options have become limited.
> 
> Tattler lids...&#8230;.rather expensive investment up front, but lids can be used indefinitely...until the cap or rubber seal breaks so will pay for itself within a year or two. Major learning curve from metal lids. I bought a bunch in bulk from their website and I've had about 60/40 success/failure rate, which so far, I'm not happy about, but still learning how this works.
> 
> Metal lids....can be reused as long as it or the rubber seal isn't damaged in any way and it can still make 100% contact with the jar rim. So be careful when taking off the lid so you don't damage it for possible future use. Do NOT reuse if the lid is bent in any way, or the lid shows thru the rubber seal or the seal becomes too thin.
> 
> Heating metal lids......used to be done to soften the rubber so when it's put on the jar, it would create a full seal. (heat expands/cool shrinks). Nowadays, it's no longer recommended to heat the lids, especially with the 'SureTight' lids. The rubber compound has been changed in some way and that makes me a bit unnerved, to try to reuse these new lids.
> 
> Store bought food jars & bottles.....such as pasta sauce, pickles, salsa, taco sauce and whatever else. I have reused these jars but only for high acid foods and/or I put in similar to what came out. Make sense? If the jar was purchased for pasta or tomato sauce, then I'll use it to can the same, usually. I don't use old mayo jars anymore since I've had a few break during processing.
> 
> Water Bath canners.....if for whatever reason you don't have a WB canner or you need to run a second canner but don't have an extra......a large pot that is tall enough to hold enough water to cover the tallest jars with 1-2 inches of water will work, just be sure to keep the jars off the bottom of the pot. If you don't have a jar rack, a towel will work in a pinch.
> 
> Pressure canners have parts that may break or wear out and need a pressure check.....most brands (except All American) need a rubber gasket that can wear out over time......roughly every 5 years or so. Also, gauges need to be checked for accuracy and possibly replaced and same for rubber plug and vent. Not sure how to DIY these maintenance tasks, any suggestions???


I'm just keeping extra rubber parts on hand. And some weighted gauges as opposed to the dial seems to be important for long term.


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## paulag1955

Back Pack Hack said:


> So why doesn't it crack when it's sealing a jar?


It's not exposed to the air.


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## paulag1955

JustAnotherNut said:


> Resurrecting this thread in case anyone is wondering...
> 
> And just to be clear...&#8230;..I have been canning for about 40 of my 60 years. 39 of those years was open kettle(hot food, hot jars, hot lids, NO processing) & water bath only. Just last year I acquired an older 22qt Presto pressure canner and have expanded my repertoire to include taters, squash & dry beans. With the WB, I have done raw pack meat and veggies, but now do them with the PC. I've never had a problem with the quality of the food canned, though have had an occasional seal failure that was caught right away and either used or refrigerated. And other than fruit or salsa, the rest was always cooked or boiled 15 minutes before eating. So, this list is from my own experiences with canning and your own mileage may vary. I don't recommend breaking any of the 'USDA approved canning practices or rules', unless you are experienced and know what the heck you're doing. Just providing information that may come in handy SHTF and your options have become limited.
> 
> Tattler lids...&#8230;.rather expensive investment up front, but lids can be used indefinitely...until the cap or rubber seal breaks so will pay for itself within a year or two. Major learning curve from metal lids. I bought a bunch in bulk from their website and I've had about 60/40 success/failure rate, which so far, I'm not happy about, but still learning how this works.
> 
> Metal lids....can be reused as long as it or the rubber seal isn't damaged in any way and it can still make 100% contact with the jar rim. So be careful when taking off the lid so you don't damage it for possible future use. Do NOT reuse if the lid is bent in any way, or the lid shows thru the rubber seal or the seal becomes too thin.
> 
> Heating metal lids......used to be done to soften the rubber so when it's put on the jar, it would create a full seal. (heat expands/cool shrinks). Nowadays, it's no longer recommended to heat the lids, especially with the 'SureTight' lids. The rubber compound has been changed in some way and that makes me a bit unnerved, to try to reuse these new lids.
> 
> Store bought food jars & bottles.....such as pasta sauce, pickles, salsa, taco sauce and whatever else. I have reused these jars but only for high acid foods and/or I put in similar to what came out. Make sense? If the jar was purchased for pasta or tomato sauce, then I'll use it to can the same, usually. I don't use old mayo jars anymore since I've had a few break during processing.
> 
> Water Bath canners.....if for whatever reason you don't have a WB canner or you need to run a second canner but don't have an extra......a large pot that is tall enough to hold enough water to cover the tallest jars with 1-2 inches of water will work, just be sure to keep the jars off the bottom of the pot. If you don't have a jar rack, a towel will work in a pinch.
> 
> Pressure canners have parts that may break or wear out and need a pressure check.....most brands (except All American) need a rubber gasket that can wear out over time......roughly every 5 years or so. Also, gauges need to be checked for accuracy and possibly replaced and same for rubber plug and vent. Not sure how to DIY these maintenance tasks, any suggestions???


Don't all pressure canners come with weights, making the gauge "nice but not strictly necessary?"


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## Chiefster23

No. I had a cheap pressure cooker I bought from Wally world that only had a gage. I got tried of babysitting that gage all the time. I finally got rid of it and bought an “American” heavy duty pressure canner.


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## paulag1955

Chiefster23 said:


> No. I had a cheap pressure cooker I bought from Wally world that only had a gage. I got tried of babysitting that gage all the time. I finally got rid of it and bought an "American" heavy duty pressure canner.


Or you could have just bought weights. I know a lot of canners prefer the weights anyway, because it's a positive cue that the canner is maintaining pressure.


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## JustAnotherNut

paulag1955 said:


> Don't all pressure canners come with weights, making the gauge "nice but not strictly necessary?"


No, some canners only have the gauge and some only have the weights, but I think those are older models


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## paulag1955

JustAnotherNut said:


> No, some canners only have the gauge and some only have the weights, but I think those are older models


That's interesting. Mine wasn't particularly expensive and it came with both. I've never pressure canned anything though. Too chicken to can chicken.


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## JustAnotherNut

paulag1955 said:


> That's interesting. Mine wasn't particularly expensive and it came with both. I've never pressure canned anything though. Too chicken to can chicken.


Been there, done that....the too chicken part. But if I can do it, so can you. As said, I've been WB canning 40 years or more. Not just fruits & tomatoes, but some veggies too...as I was taught and never had a problem other than Flat Sour, which is the jars stay too hot for too long and whatever bacteria turns the veggies sour. It won't kill you like botulism, but tastes nasty and it happens with perfectly sealed jars. Anyway, I've always wanted to can more types of foods but was afraid of PC. Although years ago, I did buy one and tried it....twice and both times I couldn't get the pressure to steady and the last time it was redlining. I turned off the burner and left the house for fear of it exploding. I never used it again. 
Fast forward a few years and I met another canner that WB spaghetti sauce with meat. I was intrigued and tried it myself. Everything had been fully cooked and the sauce had simmered for several hours before going in the jars and into the canner. As she had said, by then, everything is pretty much dead. Then a few years ago, I found an old canning book that included times for both PC & WB that included meats, fish, and just about every veggie known to man, I tried raw packed chicken in the WB and it worked great, but I was still concerned about taking the chance. So I started asking PC canners, reading articles and watching YT videos and realized the problem I had had previously and something nobody really mentions...&#8230;&#8230;...the heat setting on the stove during processing time. During WB canning, I always set it no lower than 8 for a full rolling boil and many times even higher....so not knowing any different, I had done the same with the PC many years ago and when I did adjust the setting, I had over adjusted both up & down and that's why I couldn't maintain pressure.

Anyway, when I finally realized that you start the pressure canner on high until the pressure is built up and the weight starts to jiggle, then you lower the heat setting a bit at a time until the gauge reads the correct pressure and the weight jiggles steady. Not like its going to fly off the pot kinda jiggle, nor barely jiggling...but an easy regular rocking. One thing to complicate matters, is that the stove setting may be different from one time to the next depending on weather/temps, size or number of jars and the density of the contents......and all stoves are different. On my stove, it's usually about a 7, but if I have to adjust it, I do about a half notch at a time. And never start timing until you've got the setting down. Make sense???
One of the best things about having both gauge & weights, is that the weight won't let the pressure get too high. It can go over the weight used but only by a couple pounds......and you'll know when it's running high and needs turned down a bit cause it will be jiggling like crazy and the same if it's running low...the weight will barely move. You will need to get used to the sound of when it's all working as it should, so that you'll know instantly when it's not right.

The final straw for me to actually use the PC again......was a video I seen that talked of doing a dry run just to see how it all works. Put a couple inches of water in the pot, put on the lid to lockdown and turn on the heat. No jars, just empty canner with water. High at first, until the pressure builds, the gauge reads the correct amount for your altitude and the weight starts to jiggle...&#8230;.then start lowering the heat a bit at a time to the point of maintaining pressure according to the gauge and weight. When it all is steady, let run for 10 minutes, then shut off the heat & let it cool until the weight stops, the gauge reads zero and the pop up valve drops (or whatever it's called). Wait a couple minutes, then take off the lid opening it away from you. TADA. Then go thru the whole process again and again until you feel comfortable going thru the motions, knowing what to look for, knowing what it sounds like, etc. Just make sure there is a couple inches of water in the pot and don't leave the room.

The process of canning is pretty much the same with WB or PC....just different equipment & requirements and processing times. Also remember your altitude above sea level will determine the weight used. From 0-1000ft 10lbs, if you're over 1000ft 15lbs, though processing times should be the same. Once I got the hang of it, I couldn't believe how easy it really is. But a couple words of caution, do expect some siphoning (liquid escaping the jars), especially if they are too full. So you have to be mindful of not going over the 1 inch headspace, though you still may lose some liquid. And be careful of density. Since it's possible to PC fruits, I tried applesauce but never again in the PC. Every jar siphoned, even with headspace, all over the inside of the canner. Applesauce EVERYWHERE, except the jars. What a mess.


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## Chiefster23

Last year I drastically reduced the amounts of food I home canned. But, the stuff I did can I tried to PC as much as possible instead of water bath. PC uses less water and a lot less propane to process a batch of jars. Processing times for PC some high acid veggies is not easily found since these foods are traditionally done in a water bath canner. However, look around on the internet and you can find recommendations. Now the disclaimer!!! Some internet advice is pure hogwash so use common sense or if you are afraid and worried, stick to tried and true recommendations.


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## paulag1955

JustAnotherNut said:


> Been there, done that....the too chicken part. But if I can do it, so can you. As said, I've been WB canning 40 years or more. Not just fruits & tomatoes, but some veggies too...as I was taught and never had a problem other than Flat Sour, which is the jars stay too hot for too long and whatever bacteria turns the veggies sour. It won't kill you like botulism, but tastes nasty and it happens with perfectly sealed jars. Anyway, I've always wanted to can more types of foods but was afraid of PC. Although years ago, I did buy one and tried it....twice and both times I couldn't get the pressure to steady and the last time it was redlining. I turned off the burner and left the house for fear of it exploding. I never used it again.
> Fast forward a few years and I met another canner that WB spaghetti sauce with meat. I was intrigued and tried it myself. Everything had been fully cooked and the sauce had simmered for several hours before going in the jars and into the canner. As she had said, by then, everything is pretty much dead. Then a few years ago, I found an old canning book that included times for both PC & WB that included meats, fish, and just about every veggie known to man, I tried raw packed chicken in the WB and it worked great, but I was still concerned about taking the chance. So I started asking PC canners, reading articles and watching YT videos and realized the problem I had had previously and something nobody really mentions...&#8230;&#8230;...the heat setting on the stove during processing time. During WB canning, I always set it no lower than 8 for a full rolling boil and many times even higher....so not knowing any different, I had done the same with the PC many years ago and when I did adjust the setting, I had over adjusted both up & down and that's why I couldn't maintain pressure.
> 
> Anyway, when I finally realized that you start the pressure canner on high until the pressure is built up and the weight starts to jiggle, then you lower the heat setting a bit at a time until the gauge reads the correct pressure and the weight jiggles steady. Not like its going to fly off the pot kinda jiggle, nor barely jiggling...but an easy regular rocking. One thing to complicate matters, is that the stove setting may be different from one time to the next depending on weather/temps, size or number of jars and the density of the contents......and all stoves are different. On my stove, it's usually about a 7, but if I have to adjust it, I do about a half notch at a time. And never start timing until you've got the setting down. Make sense???
> One of the best things about having both gauge & weights, is that the weight won't let the pressure get too high. It can go over the weight used but only by a couple pounds......and you'll know when it's running high and needs turned down a bit cause it will be jiggling like crazy and the same if it's running low...the weight will barely move. You will need to get used to the sound of when it's all working as it should, so that you'll know instantly when it's not right.
> 
> The final straw for me to actually use the PC again......was a video I seen that talked of doing a dry run just to see how it all works. Put a couple inches of water in the pot, put on the lid to lockdown and turn on the heat. No jars, just empty canner with water. High at first, until the pressure builds, the gauge reads the correct amount for your altitude and the weight starts to jiggle...&#8230;.then start lowering the heat a bit at a time to the point of maintaining pressure according to the gauge and weight. When it all is steady, let run for 10 minutes, then shut off the heat & let it cool until the weight stops, the gauge reads zero and the pop up valve drops (or whatever it's called). Wait a couple minutes, then take off the lid opening it away from you. TADA. Then go thru the whole process again and again until you feel comfortable going thru the motions, knowing what to look for, knowing what it sounds like, etc. Just make sure there is a couple inches of water in the pot and don't leave the room.
> 
> The process of canning is pretty much the same with WB or PC....just different equipment & requirements and processing times. Also remember your altitude above sea level will determine the weight used. From 0-1000ft 10lbs, if you're over 1000ft 15lbs, though processing times should be the same. Once I got the hang of it, I couldn't believe how easy it really is. But a couple words of caution, do expect some siphoning (liquid escaping the jars), especially if they are too full. So you have to be mindful of not going over the 1 inch headspace, though you still may lose some liquid. And be careful of density. Since it's possible to PC fruits, I tried applesauce but never again in the PC. Every jar siphoned, even with headspace, all over the inside of the canner. Applesauce EVERYWHERE, except the jars. What a mess.


Wow, thank you for that response. I have glass top ranges at both houses, so I actually use a hot plate for canning and it's awesome. Depending on the yields I get from the garden this year, I may get a second on so I can run two canners at the same time.

I have done a test run on the pressure canner, but it's been so long that I don't remember if I just brought it up to pressure to check that it wouldn't explode, or if it actually tried to maintain pressure on it.

Do you raw pack your chicken?


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## JustAnotherNut

paulag1955 said:


> Wow, thank you for that response. I have glass top ranges at both houses, so I actually use a hot plate for canning and it's awesome. Depending on the yields I get from the garden this year, I may get a second on so I can run two canners at the same time.
> 
> I have done a test run on the pressure canner, but it's been so long that I don't remember if I just brought it up to pressure to check that it wouldn't explode, or if it actually tried to maintain pressure on it.
> 
> Do you raw pack your chicken?


Yes, I've done turkey, chicken and beef. Just pack the jars fairly tight, NO broth or liquid. It makes it's own during processing. Leave atleast 1 inch headspace. When you pull it out of the canner, the meat is usually clumped together in the broth. It's fine. And when you open it, the smell is pure heaven. Just dump it all together in whatever recipe you're using. Flavor is awesome.

I will say, I've never tried canning whole pieces of chicken with the bone. Some people do, but I just save all bones to cook up a batch of broth to can separate.

Other foods I've canned with the PC.....mushrooms, bacon, pumpkin (in chunks, NOT puree), potatoes, dry beans in ham broth, pintos with a bit of bacon & onion for refries (mashed after opening & heating), mix beans with a ham hock & broth (only meat canned with bone), chili, mixed veggie soup and oh the possibilities are endless.

If you want to can your own recipes......use the time for the longest ingredient. Make sense? Say you want to can chili that has meat, beans, seasonings, tomatoes, peppers and whatever else you want to add and all the ingredients require a different processing time......go with the time for the one that takes the longest.

PS...&#8230;.if you choose to can bacon there are some things to know or consider.

1.) the finished product will be cooked. 
2.) When you cook it after taking from the jar, you will never get it to crisp up unless you burn it......ask me how I know. 
3.) Most people lay the bacon out flat on parchment paper, then roll it up to fit in the jar...&#8230;.that is a good idea if you want strips of bacon. 
4.) I did NOT use the parchment paper idea, and just stuffed in the pieces. It's tough to get it out of the jar as slices, but will still work great if you don't mind 'ends & pieces' instead, and it works perfectly as a recipe add in. 
5.) The jar will probably have a thick band of fat around the bacon. Not a problem if you save & use bacon grease for cooking. Remember, pioneers preserved some foods in fat. When that fat is sealed in a jar, it will be good indefinitely without going rancid, so it's kind of double acting.

And if all else fails, get a Ball Blue Book of Canning & Preserving. If you choose to follow the rules & recipes & recommendations, then the book will tell you what you need to know. Walmart and feed stores or hardware stores that have canning supplies, probably have the book as well.


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## paulag1955

JustAnotherNut said:


> Yes, I've done turkey, chicken and beef. Just pack the jars fairly tight, NO broth or liquid. It makes it's own during processing. Leave atleast 1 inch headspace. When you pull it out of the canner, the meat is usually clumped together in the broth. It's fine. And when you open it, the smell is pure heaven. Just dump it all together in whatever recipe you're using. Flavor is awesome.
> 
> I will say, I've never tried canning whole pieces of chicken with the bone. Some people do, but I just save all bones to cook up a batch of broth to can separate.
> 
> Other foods I've canned with the PC.....mushrooms, bacon, pumpkin (in chunks, NOT puree), potatoes, dry beans in ham broth, pintos with a bit of bacon & onion for refries (mashed after opening & heating), mix beans with a ham hock & broth (only meat canned with bone), chili, mixed veggie soup and oh the possibilities are endless.
> 
> If you want to can your own recipes......use the time for the longest ingredient. Make sense? Say you want to can chili that has meat, beans, seasonings, tomatoes, peppers and whatever else you want to add and all the ingredients require a different processing time......go with the time for the one that takes the longest.
> 
> PS...&#8230;.if you choose to can bacon there are some things to know or consider.
> 
> 1.) the finished product will be cooked.
> 2.) When you cook it after taking from the jar, you will never get it to crisp up unless you burn it......ask me how I know.
> 3.) Most people lay the bacon out flat on parchment paper, then roll it up to fit in the jar...&#8230;.that is a good idea if you want strips of bacon.
> 4.) I did NOT use the parchment paper idea, and just stuffed in the pieces. It's tough to get it out of the jar as slices, but will still work great if you don't mind 'ends & pieces' instead, and it works perfectly as a recipe add in.
> 5.) The jar will probably have a thick band of fat around the bacon. Not a problem if you save & use bacon grease for cooking. Remember, pioneers preserved some foods in fat. When that fat is sealed in a jar, it will be good indefinitely without going rancid, so it's kind of double acting.
> 
> And if all else fails, get a Ball Blue Book of Canning & Preserving. If you choose to follow the rules & recipes & recommendations, then the book will tell you what you need to know. Walmart and feed stores or hardware stores that have canning supplies, probably have the book as well.


I do have a Ball canning book. I'm just a chicken. I freak out over the possibility of botulism.

Speaking of botulism, do you ever read post-apocalyptic fiction? The people in those books always get botulism from eating canned peaches. Seriously, people, do a little research.


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## 1skrewsloose

Well, that's a drag, I haven't canned yet but love peaches in the can.

Speaking of botulism, do you ever read post-apocalyptic fiction? The people in those books always get botulism from eating canned peaches. Seriously, people, do a little research.

No, don't read any actually, but believe you, fiction is loosely based on fact/or believable stuff anyways.


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## JustAnotherNut

paulag1955 said:


> I do have a Ball canning book. I'm just a chicken. I freak out over the possibility of botulism.
> 
> Speaking of botulism, do you ever read post-apocalyptic fiction? The people in those books always get botulism from eating canned peaches. Seriously, people, do a little research.


No, I've not read it and as long as you understand the principles of canning, and have enough common sense and canning experience, I don't understand how anyone could get botulism, especially from peaches...a high acid fruit, packed in water or sugar syrup and processed for recommended time......should be a no fail. But maybe that happened because it was fiction???

Also recommended as another precaution and USDA & Ball approves of...&#8230;.BOIL or otherwise cook jar contents of low acid foods atleast 10-15 minutes before eating.


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## JustAnotherNut

1skrewsloose said:


> Well, that's a drag, I haven't canned yet but love peaches in the can.
> 
> Speaking of botulism, do you ever read post-apocalyptic fiction? The people in those books always get botulism from eating canned peaches. Seriously, people, do a little research.
> 
> No, don't read any actually, but believe you, fiction is loosely based on fact/or believable stuff anyways.


But that's just it......peaches are a high acid fruit that cans up wonderfully in a WB. The acid in the peaches (or other fruits) is enough to kill off the botulism spores and there is no reason whatsoever to get botulism from canned fruits. Unless of course, the fruit canned was way too overripe and/or rotten to begin with.

Since botulism spores are EVERYWHERE, I'd suspect anyone who got it, got it from somewhere else than the peaches. Just sayin


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## paulag1955

JustAnotherNut said:


> But that's just it......peaches are a high acid fruit that cans up wonderfully in a WB. The acid in the peaches (or other fruits) is enough to kill off the botulism spores and there is no reason whatsoever to get botulism from canned fruits. Unless of course, the fruit canned was way too overripe and/or rotten to begin with.
> 
> Since botulism spores are EVERYWHERE, I'd suspect anyone who got it, got it from somewhere else than the peaches. Just sayin


Trust me...in those books it's always the peaches and, yes, it makes no sense. Why wouldn't they say beans or corn? There are vast amounts of really terrible PAW fiction.


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## Mad Trapper

All my canner/cookers are mirromatic, back when USA made (4-22 quart). The jigglers are all the same as are the vents, 5. 10, and 15 psi, no need to calibrate ever. Some gaskets interchange, they last longer than 5 years if taken care of. I have a stock of spares for all.

Lids are cheap. Buy up a shitload when on sale. 

You can can on a woodstove/fire.

Used spaghetti jars (mason) are fine to reuse. I've some 30 years old and many times reused. Too bad most now are 24-26 oz size. If those brands go on sale for ~$1 a jar, I'll buy them to get the jars. The store sauce is a bonus.


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## JustAnotherNut

paulag1955 said:


> Trust me...in those books it's always the peaches and, yes, it makes no sense. Why wouldn't they say beans or corn? There are vast amounts of really terrible PAW fiction.


Hon, you need to quit reading those things, they'll rot yer brain :vs_laugh:


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## Mad Trapper

Peaches.

Slice them up, I leave skins on, then dip in lemon juice to prevent browning.

Pack slices in a sugar solution and water bath or pressure can.

Cinnamon, allspice, and/or cloves add flavors.


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## paulag1955

Mad Trapper said:


> Peaches.
> 
> Slice them up, I leave skins on, then dip in lemon juice to prevent browning.
> 
> Pack slices in a sugar solution and water bath or pressure can.
> 
> Cinnamon, allspice, and/or cloves add flavors.


I like them with vanilla. Pears, too.


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## paulag1955

JustAnotherNut said:


> Hon, you need to quit reading those things, they'll rot yer brain :vs_laugh:


Right? They're like Harlequin romances.


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## Chiefster23

Mad Trapper said:


> Peaches.
> 
> Slice them up, I leave skins on, then dip in lemon juice to prevent browning.
> 
> Pack slices in a sugar solution and water bath or pressure can.
> 
> Cinnamon, allspice, and/or cloves add flavors.


Lately I've been packing them in store-bought white grape juice instead of sugar water. Pretty tasty!


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