# Recommendations for a side arm



## budgetprepp-n

I'm looking to buy a side arm. Not for concealment but rather a side arm for after TSHTF 
I guess I'm sort of old school I like the 1911s. But I can't decide between a 45 or 9mm 
What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?


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## Meangreen

Buy a Glock 21. Super reliable with a huge ammo count.


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## csi-tech

I agree that a Glock 21 is a good choice provided you never want to conceal it. I did, and I was miserable. That thing with an extra magazine was wayyyy too much gun to tote around. I would never rule out a full size 1911 or an H&K USP .45 either. Great gun.


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## Fuzzee

I suggest if you're only going to carry and use FMJ than go with .45acp. If you're going to carry hollow points than take advantage of the higher capacity you can get with 9mm. Both are very common, but 9mm is heavier used by more people these days. There are excellent pistols in both, just decide what direction in calibers you want to go and than get out and try as many as possible of the choices out there, so you can find what fits you and your needs best.


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## retired guard

Glock 19 shoots like a full size conceals if you need to. Who knows what is around the bend?


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## LunaticFringeInc

If you want a 1911...then there is really only one caliber to get it in...the one it was originally designed for, the 45 ACP.

Advantages

Its going in a half inch in diameter and even if your unlucky enough for it not to expand, its coming out an inch in diameter! There doesn't really seem to be all that much difference in .355 to .451 on paper, but stand a 45 Ball round on its base next to a 9mm ball round on its base and you tell me which one you would rather be shot with! The size difference is considerable to say the least. Now do the same thing with an expanded Hollow Point ammo from each round and ask yourself the same question?

If they outlaw your high capacity magazine like they did in New York, it wont effect your 8 shot flush fit stash of magazines. In your Hi-Cap 9mm...your likely to find yourself at a considerable disadvantage. What do you want to defend yourself with 8 rounds of 45 ACP or 8 rounds of 9mm. Bigger may not always translate into be better but in this case I would be willing to take my chances.

The other aspect where I feel the 1911 is superior to other guns is all the safeties that are on it. Grip Safety, Thumb Safety, means that unlike a Glock, if I get into a scuffle or loose control of my gun unless you know how it operates you cant just pull the trigger and fire it. That might buy you that precious extra second you needed to regain control of your gun or to pull a back up and make it count.

When it comes to accessorizing it...its the Ruger 10/22 of the hang gun world! The accessories out there I promise will let you built or modify a gun that will surely fit even the most disconcerning hand gunners taste or needs, real or percieved. Can you do that to a Glock, a Sig, a Beretta or S&W?

Disadvantages

The ammo cost a bit more...more mass more lead = more cost to produce. Take up reloading!

Limited to 8 rounds unless you want the mag to stick out below the grip or you want to spring for a Paraordnance or STI "wide body" which will give you 14 in the mag and 1 in the chamber. The way I see it if you needed more than 15 rounds of 45 ACP to solve the problem you should have been running not fighting! 

Now before all the Glock Fans gang up on me, I wasn't always a 1911 Commando. I always felt they were over priced and over rated and I was never impressed with the ones we had in our armory (150 of them). But one day at the range after the AWB of 94 was in full effect and finding pre-ban mags was almost impossible and cost you dearly when you did find one for sale, I tried the instructors 1911 after shooting a 582 out of a possible 600. Not only did I commence to shooting a score of 597 out of 600 but I found it felt better under fire than even my wonder 9 did and I shot a lot better with it. Since I make a living carrying a gun, I bought one myself less than 5 days later and its the only thing I carry for self defense unless I am in bear country which is not very often. The more I use it, the more convinced I am I made the right choice!!!


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## HuntingHawk

Buy what is most comfortable in your your hand.


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## Alpha-17

If you like 1911s, go with a 1911. Plenty of good options out there. I have a ParaUSA GI Expert and a Sig Sauer Scorpion, and I love thm both. Stick with .45, as that's what they were designed for and run best on. Plenty of very good .45 JHP loads out there too. I'd recommend Federal HST or Winchester Ranger Bonded/PDX-1.


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## roy

Neither, I would go with 40 S&W since so many PD are using it. Get a Glock 22 and you can get a spare barrel in .357 Sig which is a better round than 40 S&W, 45 ACP or 9mm.


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## Doomsday

Glock 17 or 19 gen 4. IMO best bang for the buck for a budget prepper


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## PalmettoTree

You got the 1911 right. You should fire both the 9mm and 45 before deciding if possible.


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## roy

Or 1911 in .38 Super.


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## Moonshinedave

They are both good rounds IMO, and fully capable of doing what needs to be done, the 45 ACP round is much bigger, and thereby more stopping power. But since you have the name "Budget" in your handle, be advised the 45 ammo cost about 70% more than 9mm. One thing I consider when buying a caliber is if ammo gets really really hard to find how easy would it be to find ammo for my firearm. The 9mm and the 45 ACP are both common rounds and IMO makes them both good choices considering being able to find them during extreme ammo shortage.
*EDIT*
Giving some thought to my post, I figure I had better edit it, when I speak of ammo shortage I am thinking of after SHTF and thinking no ammo is longer being massed produced, this is opposed to what we have been going through where there is a run on ammo. The second being the case the more common rounds go off the shelves first (ie 9mm 45ACP,.308,223....ect) in that case having a "common" round is a disadvantage.


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## Meangreen

How much experience do you have is also a concern because a 1911 isn't a beginners pistol. The Glock is KISS simple. For a beginner the glock is far superior.


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## ekim

Meangreen said:


> How much experience do you have is also a concern because a 1911 isn't a beginners pistol. The Glock is KISS simple. For a beginner the glock is far superior.


You are right to a point, but that is why we prep, so we will have the experience when we need, so either choice made now would be good I would think. The idea of trying them out before hand is great and practice after that is important. Choose what you like that works for you and don't look back. Buy lots of ammo that feeds good in what you choose.


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## dannydefense

Meangreen said:


> Buy a Glock 21. Super reliable with a huge ammo count.


Whoah whoah... slow the friggin boat down. You drive a Prius AND own a Glock?

This is going to make me cry.


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## MikeyPrepper

Glock.21


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## Chipper

Just buy the Glock and a few mags and forget the 1911. I'd say a Glock 20 in 10mm with 15 rounds. Yes I've owned a bunch of 1911's, until I started shooting the Glocks. Sold all of them. Couple years ago I would have never thought about those plastic pieces of junk. But a well informed neighbor enlightened me and changed my train of thought. 

Now before everyone of the ole guys get their feathers all ruffled up let me explain. Your looking for a survival/self defense gun right. WHY do want anything with a grip safety, thumb safety and only 7 rounds capacity. Just more stuff to go wrong when it counts. Is the safety on or off? Do I have the grip right so it will fire? WOW 7 whole rounds before another reload. C,mom really. 

Now the Glock 20 in 10mm. Point at the target and pull the trigger, that's it. It's pretty easy in a life or death situation. Plus you have 16 rounds, one in the chamber and 15 round mags. 25 round mags are available if that isn't enough, modified Glock 21 mags. No need to argue 45acp or 9mm vs the 10 mm. You'll never get a 45 up to the power level of the 10mm, custom reloads or factory ammo. Glocks can be found new for the low $500's. You can buy 2 for the price of a "good" quality 1911.

I know it may be a hard pill to swallow and admit that there are better guns available then the good ole 1911. IMO


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## AquaHull

If I had to do it all over, I'd probably go 1911 45acp. That being said I feel comfortable and comforted with my Glock 19. A 124 gr Gold Dot Jacketed Hollow Point +P is a great round for the G19,the Ranger 127 gr JHP in +P+ has ballistics close to a 357 125 gr JHP.

For SHTF I have 124 gr Precision Delta JHP's in front of 4.3 gr of WIN 231, which happen to work well in the CW9 and CM9 as well.

It's light and fast vs slow and heavy in the 9 vs 45 age old topic. A bigger hole drains more fluid though.

Another thought, I don't need a gunsmith to keep my Glock running. There's a lot to keeping a 1911 going, not bashing them,but you need to know how to do it or have a gunsmith in your clan. Not a regular smith either, a 1911 smith.


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## rice paddy daddy

I simply prefer big bores. The smallest caliber I carry for personal protection is 357 magnum. I have either a 5 shot J frame 357 or a 5 shot 44 Special snubnose in my front pocket everytime I leave my property.
I also like the 44 magnum round. And in 1911's (the only fighting autoloader I own), all four of mine are 45 ACP. And what's the big deal of magazine capacity? Does anyone carry just one?
If I was younger I would most likely have a Freedom Arms Single Action revolver chambered in .454 Casul. Ya don't need 14 rounds of that to get the job done.
In the interest of full disclosure, I do own one 9MM - a Walther P-1 as an example of a P-38 for my WWII collection.


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## roy

.357 Sig is a least equal to .357 magnum in a sort barrel.


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## paraquack

Ok, lots of good *opinions* here. First of all, I'd try out some different caliber/pistol combinations. Fine what feels comfortable in your hand and you can handle one handed. You might not have both hands available. While a smaller caliber like 9mm has less recoil and you can bring the pistol back on target quicker than say a .45ACP for follow up shots, that big mother hole a .45ACP puts in the target has a tendency to eliminate necessary follow up shots, BUT I would still double tap. From talking to men who have been in the middle east, a lot of them say the 9mm has a marked tendency to blow right through the bodies of attackers because of their thin bodies. You know, like undernourished, like what will happen after a SHTF event. But I went with a different pistol in the .45ACP than the venerable 1911.

Unfortunately my wife couldn't handle anything larger than 9mm, so she went it an XD. Too bad, now I have to stock a third pistol caliber.

So my vote goes along with the rest of the guys for .45ACP. But remember, you might have another family member who might have to use it. If my wife would have been interested in firearms before I bought my first pistol, I would have gone with something she could handle too. My next pistol would be for me. Please remember everything here is opinion.


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## Mass Mike

I gotta agree with many of the other folks here. I love Glocks. I have a Glock 17. In MA, we have a 10 round capacity law, but this one was pre-ban and grandfathered in with 17 round mags). We can't even buy new glocks in MA because of the trigger pull pound law here....but pound for pound, you're gonna have a hard time finding something more reliable than a glock IMO. Super simple, about 1/3 of the parts of a more complicated gun like a Beretta. It's built loose (like an AK) so it can handle a decent amount of caked dirt and mud and still go bang every time. It's super easy to work on, even in the field.
Nothing at all against 1911's. However, I had spoken with a guy who had recently attended the tactical response training in Camden, TN. They put people and gear through a pretty rigorous week of intense training. The instructor had said that he has never had someone go through that training with a 1911 that made it through the week without operational issues. In their training, they have seen glocks time and time again handle the abuse of their training with no issues. 
Don't flame me here...I'm just passing along info that I've been told. In the end, you gotta get what YOU feel most comfortable with. Have fun shopping!


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## retired guard

paraquack said:


> Ok, lots of good *opinions* here. First of all, I'd try out some different caliber/pistol combinations. Fine what feels comfortable in your hand and you can handle one handed. You might not have both hands available. While a smaller caliber like 9mm has less recoil and you can bring the pistol back on target quicker than say a .45ACP for follow up shots, that big mother hole a .45ACP puts in the target has a tendency to eliminate necessary follow up shots, BUT I would still double tap. From talking to men who have been in the middle east, a lot of them say the 9mm has a marked tendency to blow right through the bodies of attackers because of their thin bodies. You know, like undernourished, like what will happen after a SHTF event. But I went with a different pistol in the .45ACP than the venerable 1911.
> 
> Unfortunately my wife couldn't handle anything larger than 9mm, so she went it an XD. Too bad, now I have to stock a third pistol caliber.
> 
> So my vote goes along with the rest of the guys for .45ACP. But remember, you might have another family member who might have to use it. If my wife would have been interested in firearms before I bought my first pistol, I would have gone with something she could handle too. My next pistol would be for me. Please remember everything here is opinion.


The folks you were talking to used hardball right?


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## Doomsday

rickfromillinois said:


> Why is it that there isn't a single military in the World that uses them? .


Not sure how up to date your info is but check out the link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-pistols-for-uk-armed-forces. Plus a lot of US law enforcement agencies uses Glocks. I bet you more law enforcement agencies use Glocks then 1911s.


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## rice paddy daddy

With Glocks and those that use the Glock trigger control system you have to be real careful about using the proper holster. Make a wrong choice and you face the very real possibility of putting a round right through your on leg upon holstering the weapon. 
This is not "street rumor", I have seen graphic pictures of the result.


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## Arizona Infidel

Why all the Glock talk? I reread the OP a couple different times and I can't see where the OP asked about a Glock. In fact I think he stated he was talking about a 1911. 
To answer the OPs question. I have no personal experience with the 1911 chambered in 9mm, but everything I have read is they tend to be finicky when it comes to ammo. I would recommend the .45.
<edit>
Just wanted to edit this post. I will leave the above comment but add that I just went to 1911 forum and read a thread from a guy asking about the 9mm 1911 and everyone who responded said they worked great and were very accurate. So I guess I am full of shit:mrgreen: I still recommend the .45, just because it's a .45. :wink:


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## Meangreen

Doomsday said:


> Not sure how up to date your info is but check out the link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-pistols-for-uk-armed-forces. Plus a lot of US law enforcement agencies uses Glocks. I bet you more law enforcement agencies use Glocks then 1911s.


Over 80% of law enforcement agencies use Glock.


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## Meangreen

I know he wants a 1911 and it does have a huge following and I have owned many 1911's in .45 ,40, and 9mm, double stack, and single stack. I don't own them anymore. 1911 especially in any other caliber other than .45 tends to need tweeking in either caliber grain or in the pistol itself. I don't recommend them to beginners and that is why I recommended Glock. Easy disassembly, reassembly, high capacity, no fuss no muss. If you like 1911 great, you're usually the guys I'm waiting for at the IDPA matches trying to un**** your guns.


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## Arizona Infidel

Gee, what did the beginners do before the 1980s?


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## paraquack

retired guard said:


> The folks you were talking to used hardball right?


I must assume so. otherwise it would be a big no-no.


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## roy

No because they work. I have a bunch of both.


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## rice paddy daddy

Arizona Infidel said:


> Gee, what did the beginners do before the 1980s?


I started out with a 70 Series Colt Government Model 45 ACP, my second hand gun was a Ruger Blackhawk in...................wait for it...................................45 Colt.:mrgreen:
My third was a 70 Series Colt Commander 45 ACP.
I've got my Dad's Colt Model 1903 that was made in 1918, almost 100 years ago. It still shoots fine and has never been worked on since it left the factory.
Now, what is Glock's longevity status? Will IT last a hundred, a hundred fourty years?
I'm sorry, I'm an American classic man. If someone gave me a Glock, free, I would sell it and buy another Colt. Or Ruger. Or Smith&Wesson.
Now, if you want one, fine, I will not disparage you. And they are good firearms, I agree. But no one can tell me it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That dog won't hunt.


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## Meangreen

Arizona Infidel said:


> Gee, what did the beginners do before the 1980s?


 it was all about the revolver. I'm not saying a 1911 isn't a great weapon .


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## Smitty901

If it is not for carry Conceal either will do. Go with a full size weapon. There are major difference in full size and compact hand guns


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## Meangreen

To tell you the truth, in my opinion the finest 9 mm ever made is the cz 75. I know it's a copy of the brownie but l think its better.


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## lgustavus81

Sig Sauer P226 Tacops 9mm. Comes with 4 20rd mags and it's a full sized pistol


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## Meangreen

lgustavus81 said:


> Sig Sauer P226 Tacops 9mm. Comes with 4 20rd mags and it's a full sized pistol


. that is my wife's favorite pistol. It is a fine shooter.


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## Meangreen

rice paddy daddy said:


> I started out with a 70 Series Colt Government Model 45 ACP, my second hand gun was a Ruger Blackhawk in...................wait for it...................................45 Colt.:mrgreen:
> My third was a 70 Series Colt Commander 45 ACP.
> I've got my Dad's Colt Model 1903 that was made in 1918, almost 100 years ago. It still shoots fine and has never been worked on since it left the factory.
> Now, what is Glock's longevity status? Will IT last a hundred, a hundred fourty years?
> I'm sorry, I'm an American classic man. If someone gave me a Glock, free, I would sell it and buy another Colt. Or Ruger. Or Smith&Wesson.
> Now, if you want one, fine, I will not disparage you. And they are good firearms, I agree. But no one can tell me it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That dog won't hunt.


I have thousands and thousands of rounds thru my glock without a single misfire or misfeed. It it last 100 years? No way but neither will I.


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## Smitty901

Good deals can be found in full size weapons.
With the big move to CC many great full size weapons have fall away or discounted.
Ruger P Models are an example outstand full size hand gun made for a different time but still 
an outstanding fire arm and they sell at a fair price used but like new.


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## lgustavus81

Meangreen said:


> . that is my wife's favorite pistol. It is a fine shooter.


Yeah had to buy my wife a PX4 Storm to keep her hands off mine!


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## Meangreen

lgustavus81 said:


> Yeah had to buy my wife a PX4 Storm to keep her hands off mine!


. Tried to get her to like other weapons but she loves her p226 and she handles it well.


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## lgustavus81

Meangreen said:


> . Tried to get her to like other weapons but she loves her p226 and she handles it well.


Well mine seems to think that the 9mm just doesn't have the ass behind it that she would like so she decided to go with a .40 cal!


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## jimb1972

See what feels good to you, Glock makes a good reliable pistol but the main reason most LE agancies use them is they get them for next to nothing. Glock gives them a big price discount because they know civilians will want what the police are using. Agencies buy them because they are cheap not because they are the best weapon. If you are looking for the best weapon look at what the FBI's HRT and Navy seals use.


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## tango

Gun manufacturers give police dept's a deal because the order is large and they also provide armorer services and parts.
The SEALS use SIG 9mm and H&K tactical 45's, and others depending on the mission.


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## PaulS

With the 1911 and 180 or 200 grain hollow point ammo you will hard to find a better all-around combination. 
Bear in mind that you mat have to shoot a couple of boxes of ammo to get the gun to function reliably or even have it worked over a little by someone who is good with the 1911 series guns. 
If you compare the 9mm to the 45 the only things the 9mm has going for it is muzzle velocity (not always a good thing) and magazine capacity (which allows you to put more bullets to make up for the lack of stopping power). I would never plan on needing 14 rounds in a self defense event. If you have to use more than two or four then you probably won't survive.


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## PrepperLite

OP, I have no EXP with the 1911, I personally don't care to much for the look. I would always take .45 ACP over 9mm, I carry that caliber daily. Bigger round, more punch.



rickfromillinois said:


> Because they are cheap.


woah woah woah, well that doesn't make any sense given your first question:



rickfromillinois said:


> Why is it that there isn't a single military in the World that uses them?


You do know our stuff is made by the lowest bidder right?


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## Arizona Infidel

> Shooting a Glock is simply shooting a single-action self-loader with no safety and a very poor trigger. If real excellence is not the objective, this is a satisfactory system to employ-Jeff Cooper


:twisted:


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## nurseholly

Meangreen said:


> . Tried to get her to like other weapons but she loves her p226 and she handles it well.


I had the Springfield XD in a 40, and it was just ok. I liked your Glock 17, but I felt like the grips were big. I honestly think the Sig p226 is the best gun for me. I am able to hit the target with expert accuracy at 20 yards and break down clean up is quick and easy. I am open to owning others but I am comfortable with carrying this one. As a concealed carry I prefer a 38 revolver. I shot the Ruger well and I don't have to worry so much about my grip.


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## Deebo

nurseholly said:


> I had the Springfield XD in a 40, and it was just ok. I liked your Glock 17, but I felt like the grips were big. I honestly think the Sig p226 is the best gun for me. I am able to hit the target with expert accuracy at 20 yards and break down clean up is quick and easy. I am open to owning others but I am comfortable with carrying this one. As a concealed carry I prefer a 38 revolver. I shot the Ruger well and I don't have to worry so much about my grip.


Meangreen, I hope you can read between the lines..hint- open to owning others.


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## lgustavus81

rickfromillinois said:


> Because they are cheap.


Not defending Glocks here. I wouldn't even own one. But, if we're going to use the financial aspects of firearms I think Hi - Point is a great deal on the cheaper side!


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## inceptor

Glock Perfection

oh wait.....

Glock Perfection gen 2

oh wait.....

Glock Perfection gen 3

oh wait.....

Glock Perfection gen 4

oh wait....

Who knows, someday they may get it right. 

I'll stick with my 1911's, XD and XDS. I'm also a .45ACP kinda guy. I finally did buy a 9mm. Got a Sig P2022 on deep sale at cheaper than garbage before they showed their greed.


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## lgustavus81

Love my Springfield XDm .45 too!


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## Ripon

I've never owned a Glock. I have nothing against them just never got to one. I do own several P series Ruger 9mm's and like the capacity, tank nature or rugged existence. They never seem to fail me, but then I keep my 1911's clean and they function well too - I have several of them. About 3 years ago I found out I got older, damnit. With the age came my lack of interest in the recoil of the 1911-45 so I purchased a 1911-9mm and absolutely love it. Now I'm keen on 22LR conversions for my 1911 and they don't work with the 9mm so I keep a 45 on hand too with that conversion in place. Now this is no longer affordable. Some folks like to accumulate ounces of gold - I prefer guns I guess. I did manage to get a gun smith to work on my Kimber 1911 9mm and my RIA 1911 9mm's feed ramp and it make the Kimber 22 conversion kit work well with both - still I keep the single 45 around and only transfer it to those 9mm's for practice on their frames.

Getting old I like the less recoil of the 1911 9mm, it works without fail, but magazines are not as readily available and a little more expensive. These are not significant factors if you take the time and use the extra few dollars to overcome them.


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## GTGallop

budgetprepp-n said:


> I'm looking to buy a side arm. Not for concealment but rather a side arm for after TSHTF
> I guess I'm sort of old school I like the 1911s. But I can't decide between a 45 or 9mm
> What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?


Disclaimer - I may not be totally objective in this opinion because... I LOVE THE 1911! It is an awesome side arm with beautiful lines. There is a certain ergonomic feel that the 1911 has that has yet to be duplicated by any other firearm. It is the perfect combination of balance, poise, grace, power and raw sex appeal. Period - end of story.

Now on to my opinion and I'll try to remain as objective as possible. And my opinion is this... I would never venture into the S hitting TF with a 1911 as my primary. There, I said it!

The 1911 was state of the art in the early 1900's when JMB was working out its design. It remained so for almost 75 to 85 years and even today is a pleasurable gun to own and shoot. But I'm often perplexed by people that swear by the 1911 but want an AR-15 as their rifle. I ask, why not a Lever Gun? Why not a 30-40 Krag Jorgensen? Why not a Manlicher Carcano, Mauser, or Lee-Enfield? All of those were state of the art rifles in about the same time that the 1911 was a state of the art handgun.

But no - nobody wants one of these. They'd all prefer an AR, AK, or M-14/M1A. And you know why? They are still state of the art TODAY. Why would you make the case that you need a high capacity rifle with rugged parts and then carry a museum piece as your side arm? In a precarious defensive position, are you going to lay down suppressive fire with today's main battle rifle so you can kill them with nostalgia? No.

The venerable 1911 is a camp fire gun. It is legend and history and I love it, but I would want to walk into the Book of Eli with something more relevant. There are excellent high capacity 9mm (my chosen round for procurement and price reasons) made by Springfield, Smith & Wesson, Glock, Bretta, and if you are hung up on the 1911 platform - Para Ordinance makes double stack 9mm 1911 frames. They are even making polymer 1911 frames now.

If they can master the double stack IN a polymer framed 9mm 1911, then I would move back to putting one on my hip.

Having said that - if you are going to OC carry, here are my top two faves.
Springfield Armory - Introducing the XD(M)® Polymer Handgun
Glock 34 Gen4 | G34 Gen4 | 9x19mm | GLOCK USA

I prefer the longer slide for a longer sight radius, better recoil control, and it maximizes the velocity in your pistol's ammo. Could add another 200 to 300 FPS and keep that round supersonic for more distance. Effectively moves your pistol from a 50 yard weapon to a 75 yard weapon. And I know someone here will say "I can routinely hit the X with my 9mm sub compact what ever at 75 yards." Ok - for that guy it becomes a 100 yard pistol. Point is, it can only add performance.


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## retired guard

A thought concerning G 34 is that a stock can be easily affixed purchasable from Amazon. Get your SBR paperwork approved prior to purchase as BATF considers possession intent. This would extend your pistol effectiveness into rifle territory. Still remember the mission of handgun is to get you to your long gun.


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## Meangreen

inceptor said:


> Glock Perfection
> 
> oh wait.....
> 
> Glock Perfection gen 2
> 
> oh wait.....
> 
> Glock Perfection gen 3
> 
> oh wait.....
> 
> Glock Perfection gen 4
> 
> oh wait....
> 
> Who knows, someday they may get it right.
> 
> I'll stick with my 1911's, XD and XDS. I'm also a .45ACP kinda guy. I finally did buy a 9mm. Got a Sig P2022 on deep sale at cheaper than garbage before they showed their greed.


Oh come on! There are thousands of changes made to the 1911 and it seems every manufacture makes a version now. Many are crap and a few are OK. I asked the question at work to all the gun nuts and I thought it was funny, for example one guy said between himself and his father they owned 67 1911s, all from different manufactures including ones handed down from past generations and the only one that he said had been 100% reliable was his Les Baer he got for graduation. I have never had a single malfunction from a Glock and I own many. I can't say that for the 1911's except for my Kimber Custom(I sold) and for the price it better god damn work. If you shoot IDPA it is almost comical to watch the "Your not a man unless you shooting a 1911" crowd fumble thru a match, blaming their reloads, blaming the new part they had to add. I know Harley and I know VW because I understand their idiosyncrasies because I have taken them apart and put them back together. They are antiquated and but you know that going in. I know 1911 forwards and backwards because I have had them apart adjusting springs, replacing parts, adding new parts etc.

The latest was a group buy our agency got on .40 Para 1911 Customs with our badge and logo for $725. Everyone had issues with theirs, mine just needed to have a little filing and fitting to get it to run. I ended up trading it with a collector for a couple of Glocks.


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## jimb1972

Meangreen said:


> Oh come on! There are thousands of changes made to the 1911 and it seems every manufacture makes a version now. Many are crap and a few are OK. I asked the question at work to all the gun nuts and I thought it was funny, for example one guy said between himself and his father they owned 67 1911s, all from different manufactures including ones handed down from past generations and the only one that he said had been 100% reliable was his Les Baer he got for graduation. I have never had a single malfunction from a Glock and I own many. I can't say that for the 1911's except for my Kimber Custom(I sold) and for the price it better god damn work. If you shoot IDPA it is almost comical to watch the "Your not a man unless you shooting a 1911" crowd fumble thru a match, blaming their reloads, blaming the new part they had to add. I know Harley and I know VW because I understand their idiosyncrasies because I have taken them apart and put them back together. They are antiquated and but you know that going in. I know 1911 forwards and backwards because I have had them apart adjusting springs, replacing parts, adding new parts etc.
> 
> The latest was a group buy our agency got on .40 Para 1911 Customs with our badge and logo for $725. Everyone had issues with theirs, mine just needed to have a little filing and fitting to get it to run. I ended up trading it with a collector for a couple of Glocks.


I have owned at least 6 1911's, I reload, and I have never had any problems with any of them with the exception of a Para P14 that I had to replace the extractor on because it was worn out (bought used, high round count) The 1911 works great at what it was designed to do, throw 200+ grain bullets at moderate velocities, as long as you only ask it to do what it was designed for it will do it well.


----------



## Meangreen

rickfromillinois said:


> Your point is misleading at best. The 1911 manufactured by Colt, the original company, hasn't had "thousands of changes". The military designation of the pistol is the M1911-A1. The claim that there has been thousands of changes is pure bull. Different companies who make COPIES of the 1911 make changes to make their model standout from the rest. Why is there so many companies that make copies of the 1911? Because it is a great pistol. It was great in 1911 and it is great now. How many companies make copies of the Glock? What generation of Glock are they on now? Is it 4 or 5, I lose track.


Every "plastic" pistol on the market is a copy of Glock. You don't know 1911 if you think changes haven't made. and yes Colt has made many changes to their 1911 over the years. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's place but what I have learned over the years is if your staking your life on it, it better work. Just because the military uses it, doesn't make it good. You shoot what they give you and learn to like it.

If you truly know 1911's like you say you will know that a mil spec 1911 isn't an accurate weapon and they were made with very loose tolerances and expert gunsmiths going thru it to make sure it would work. Now a days when labor is expensive and materials are cheap, this hands on gun smithing doesn't exist unless your willing to pay for it.

I think Yam said it best who worked at the colt factory.

A modern production 1911 typically needs a little gunsmith attention at some point in its life. It is not the same as the GI issue gun that was carefully handcrafted at the Colt factory nearly a century ago. When Colt first started producing the gun way back in the day, they were the only ones making it - their parts, their mags, ammo to their spec. The design has been around for so long that any particular 1911 is now made with parts made to various specs that have wandered away from the original for one reason or another, and is fed with ammo and mags that have similarly changed or evolved. This is the reason why the 1911 does well with tuning by a skilled hand, something that it typically does not receive at the modern factory. The gun also needs proper cleaning and maintenance to reach its full potential. Take care of your 1911 and it will do its job for you like nothing else can.


----------



## inceptor

Meangreen said:


> Oh come on! There are thousands of changes made to the 1911 and it seems every manufacture makes a version now. Many are crap and a few are OK. I asked the question at work to all the gun nuts and I thought it was funny, for example one guy said between himself and his father they owned 67 1911s, all from different manufactures including ones handed down from past generations and the only one that he said had been 100% reliable was his Les Baer he got for graduation. I have never had a single malfunction from a Glock and I own many. I can't say that for the 1911's except for my Kimber Custom(I sold) and for the price it better god damn work. If you shoot IDPA it is almost comical to watch the "Your not a man unless you shooting a 1911" crowd fumble thru a match, blaming their reloads, blaming the new part they had to add. I know Harley and I know VW because I understand their idiosyncrasies because I have taken them apart and put them back together. They are antiquated and but you know that going in. I know 1911 forwards and backwards because I have had them apart adjusting springs, replacing parts, adding new parts etc.
> 
> The latest was a group buy our agency got on .40 Para 1911 Customs with our badge and logo for $725. Everyone had issues with theirs, mine just needed to have a little filing and fitting to get it to run. I ended up trading it with a collector for a couple of Glocks.


I don't dislike Glock, I just don't own one. I make fun of Glocks simply because most of the owners are as rabid about them as 1911 owners.

Right now I own 2 1911's. One I've had for over 20yrs that was built from different mfg's. The slide is an old Safari Arms and the body is a Springfield if memory serves me correctly. I've never had an issue with it. The other is an STI Trojan. No issues there either.

The Springfield XD was my 1st plastic gun and I enjoy shooting it. I also like the safeties. I liked it so much I bought an XD-S for my EDC. All are .45ACP just because I like the caliber and am used to it. About a yr ago, I finally broke down and bought a toy gun..........uh, I mean a 9mm. I got a really good deal on it but it mostly stays in the safe. My buddy and I bought the same gun, a Sig SP2022, Out of the box his was fine but mine had FTF issues. I polished the ramp and that problem was cured.

Harley's and VW's I can understand why you like them. I think you should paint your Vanagon with the old Flower Power design. But hey, that's just me


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## Meangreen

jimb1972 said:


> I have owned at least 6 1911's, I reload, and I have never had any problems with any of them with the exception of a Para P14 that I had to replace the extractor on because it was worn out (bought used, high round count) The 1911 works great at what it was designed to do, throw 200+ grain bullets at moderate velocities, as long as you only ask it to do what it was designed for it will do it well.


Yes with moderate accuracy and reliability only with finding the right load and bullet.


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## retired guard

rickfromillinois said:


> Your point is misleading at best. The 1911 manufactured by Colt, the original company, hasn't had "thousands of changes". The military designation of the pistol is the M1911-A1. The claim that there has been thousands of changes is pure bull. Different companies who make COPIES of the 1911 make changes to make their model standout from the rest. Why is there so many companies that make copies of the 1911? Because it is a great pistol. It was great in 1911 and it is great now. How many companies make copies of the Glock? What generation of Glock are they on now? Is it 4 or 5, I lose track.


I have one 1911 a Colt it does occasionally hiccup. My Glock 19 Gen 2 has failed to detonate primers on Israeli ammo made for SMGs on first strike no other issues. When I first left the Marines my first carry weapon was a 1911 (Remington Rand) at the time I considered it the ultimate carry gun. I still think it's pretty good. Now days I carry revolvers or my Glock. Those who carry 1911 I think will be well served by them.


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## Meangreen

inceptor said:


> I don't dislike Glock, I just don't own one. I make fun of Glocks simply because most of the owners are as rabid about them as 1911 owners.
> 
> Right now I own 2 1911's. One I've had for over 20yrs that was built from different mfg's. The slide is an old Safari Arms and the body is a Springfield if memory serves me correctly. I've never had an issue with it. The other is an STI Trojan. No issues there either.
> 
> The Springfield XD was my 1st plastic gun and I enjoy shooting it. I also like the safeties. I liked it so much I bought an XD-S for my EDC. All are .45ACP just because I like the caliber and am used to it. About a yr ago, I finally broke down and bought a toy gun..........uh, I mean a 9mm. I got a really good deal on it but it mostly stays in the safe. My buddy and I bought the same gun, a Sig SP2022, Out of the box his was fine but mine had FTF issues. I polished the ramp and that problem was cured.
> 
> Harley's and VW's I can understand why you like them. I think you should paint your Vanagon with the old Flower Power design. But hey, that's just me


Yup every gun has it's place. I wouldn't recommend an old knucklehead to a new rider that doesn't have at some mechanical ability. I have been giving the bus some thought and think the old flower power design may be good for "Urban camouflage." Oh no officer, no guns in here! Peace out man! No K9 hit and I'm cool.


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## Meangreen

retired guard said:


> I have one 1911 a Colt it does occasionally hiccup. My Glock 19 Gen 2 has failed to detonate primers on Israeli ammo made for SMGs on first strike no other issues. When I first left the Marines my first carry weapon was a 1911 (Remington Rand) at the time I considered it the ultimate carry gun. I still think it's pretty good. Now days I carry revolvers or my Glock. Those who carry 1911 I think will be well served by them.


They do go bang. The last IDPA shoot that I went to, there was a young deputy fresh from the academy who was shooting his duty weapon, a new para P14. He had several failures to feed and this was his duty weapon! He was told by his instructors at Western University that that is to be expected from a 1911. We went through his weapon and got it reliably loading and shooting.

And to start another debate...I would rather carry a revolver at work than the issued HK P2000.


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## lgustavus81

Meangreen said:


> Every "plastic" pistol on the market is a copy of Glock.


Actually Sig makes a couple of "plastic" pistols that are nowhere near Glock "clones" main difference being that they are hammer fired versus the Glock striker fire system. Both setups have their advantages and I own both and I shoot both. I personally enjoy hammer fired better but I do love my striker fired XDm when I feel like throwing some 45's downrange!


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## jimb1972

Buy the .45, or .38 super if you are a reloader. Use 230 gr. Golden Sabers or fmj if its a .45 and you should have a trouble free experience.


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## Meangreen

lgustavus81 said:


> Actually Sig makes a couple of "plastic" pistols that are nowhere near Glock "clones" main difference being that they are hammer fired versus the Glock striker fire system. Both setups have their advantages and I own both and I shoot both. I personally enjoy hammer fired better but I do love my striker fired XDm when I feel like throwing some 45's downrange!


Is it plastic bonded to metal? Then they had to pay royalties to GLock. The inventor of Glock was not a gun guy but a producer that perfected a process that no one had done before, successfully bonding plastic to metal.


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## lgustavus81

Meangreen said:


> Is it plastic bonded to metal? Then they had to pay royalties to GLock. The inventor of Glock was not a gun guy but a producer that perfected a process that no one had done before, successfully bonding plastic to metal.


That is a good question. Might have to research that a bit The P250 I believe is just a polymer frame that you can swap out the fcu to different size frames for a more modular setup


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## Meangreen

When I started seriously prepping, I thought to myself that I can't carry them all and if I could have a "modular" weapon that could do double duty, right on. Can a stock be added to a Glock? Yes. Can a Glock be made full auto? Yes. Does a Glock have a high round count and magazines can be used from firearm to firearm depending on caliber? Yes. I stopped shooting competitively and occasionally go to shoot with my local IDPA club but I don't have a use for a race gun or target pistol. I do still own all steel weapons as back ups but I wanted a weapon that is kiss simple no matter the model that I could prep with lots of magazines and parts for little money. It may not be for everyone but I'm not prepping for everyone.


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## Meangreen

lgustavus81 said:


> That is a good question. Might have to research that a bit The P250 I believe is just a polymer frame that you can swap out the fcu to different size frames for a more modular setup


The Glock pistol, sometimes referred to by the manufacturer as Glock "Safe Action" Pistol, is a series of semi-automatic pistols designed and produced by Glock Ges.m.b.H., located in Deutsch-Wagram, Austria. The company's founder, engineer Gaston Glock, had no experience with firearm design or manufacture at the time their first pistol, the Glock 17, was being prototyped. Glock did, however, have extensive experience in advanced synthetic polymers, knowledge of which was instrumental in the company's design of the first successful line of pistols with a polymer frame. Glock introduced ferritic nitrocarburizing into the firearms industry as an anti-corrosion surface treatment for metal gun parts.[5]

Despite initial resistance from the market to accept a "plastic gun" due to durability and reliability concerns, and fears that the pistol would be "invisible" to metal detectors in airports, Glock pistols have become the company's most profitable line of products, commanding 65% of the market share of handguns for United States law enforcement agencies[6] as well as supplying numerous national armed forces and security agencies worldwide. Glocks are also popular weapons amongst civilians for home/self defense and concealed/open carry.[citation needed]


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## jimb1972

Meangreen said:


> Is it plastic bonded to metal? Then they had to pay royalties to GLock. The inventor of Glock was not a gun guy but a producer that perfected a process that no one had done before, successfully bonding plastic to metal.


Many manufacturers are now using metal inserts that are pinned to the polymer frames. Being first does not necessarily mean being best, otherwise we would all be shooting Bergman Bayard auto pistols.


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## retired guard

rickfromillinois said:


> The manufacturer refers to it as the "safe action"? Well if the manufacturer says to it must be true. Like I said, I personally know of 2 people who have had accidental discharges of the Glocks. One was a Sgt in a Moderate sized police force, and was hardly someone who was unfamiliar with firearms.


I've known people who have had negligent discharges with 1911's it wasn't the designs fault people need to know their weapon and practice what they know.


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## Meangreen

Know your weapon.


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## lgustavus81

I get a kick out of the part after he shoots himself every time I watch it cause he actually keeps enough composure to set his gun down on the ground instead of just dropping or throwing it down before he hollers that he just fu**ing shot himself!


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## Meangreen

lgustavus81 said:


> I get a kick out of the part after he shoots himself every time I watch it cause he actually keeps enough composure to set his gun down on the ground instead of just dropping or throwing it down before he hollers that he just fu**ing shot himself!


Muscle memory is a tough thing to overcome. This video is of a competitive shooter (His name escapes me) but they made many tries of this footage because they didn't want him to drop the magazine. Take after take he couldn't overcome his muscle memory, so they improvised in the scene.


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## Arizona Infidel

I'm going to get my wife a 9mm because she's a girl and 9mm is a girls caliber. :twisted:


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## retired guard

My wife fires .45 out of her PD and my 1911 does that make .45 the little old lady caliber?:mrgreen:


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## paraquack

Oh, now you're going to catch a lot of flak from all the girly guys out there! including the NATO military soldiers.


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## Alpha-17

GTGallop said:


> But I'm often perplexed by people that swear by the 1911 but want an AR-15 as their rifle. I ask, why not a Lever Gun? Why not a 30-40 Krag Jorgensen? Why not a Manlicher Carcano, Mauser, or Lee-Enfield? All of those were state of the art rifles in about the same time that the 1911 was a state of the art handgun.


I've got to disagree with that analogy. The 1911 was issued when revolvers dominated the battlefield, and thus represented a major leap forward in terms of technology. Since then, the only "major leaps" that might apply would be capacity or weight savings though a polymer frame. A more apt analogy between the 1911 and a rifle equivalent would be the M1 Garand. Sure, it's a little odd compared to most rifles today, but I wouldn't feel bad carrying one into battle.


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## Meangreen

If I don't shoot you with my 9mm, I will scratch your eyes out and take all my outfits back!!!! said with a lisp


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## dannydefense

Meangreen said:


> Muscle memory is a tough thing to overcome. This video is of a competitive shooter (His name escapes me) but they made many tries of this footage because they didn't want him to drop the magazine. Take after take he couldn't overcome his muscle memory, so they improvised in the scene.


He checked for remaining threats before moving! BAD AZZ.


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## Meangreen

dannydefense said:


> He checked for remaining threats before moving! BAD AZZ.


It's classic IPSC shooting, starts from the surrender finishes by searching for other threats, drops the magazine clears the chamber. Except they wanted him to re-holster and leave the scene. He couldn't break the muscle memory so he places the weapon on the victim and then walks away.


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## 9UC

budgetprepp-n said:


> I'm looking to buy a side arm. Not for concealment but rather a side arm for after TSHTF ..... What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?


There's no perfect answer, but my short answer is to the specific question specifying "not for concealment". Full size 1911 for absolute blunt force trauma, especially if you do 230 gr JHP. 9mm for volume of fire with double stack mag and lower cost of ammo. I have one of each, as I CC and do not care for OC, yet, I carry my 380 with Speer or Corbon DPX JHPs most often. Should the decay of society dictated heavier, I'd take my 9mm with my +P, 147gr' 13 round, JHPs over my Colt 1911 and Pray that I never have to use one.


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## Arizona Infidel

Meangreen said:


> They do go bang. The last IDPA shoot that I went to, there was a young deputy fresh from the academy who was shooting his duty weapon, a new para P14. He had several failures to feed and this was his duty weapon! He was told by his instructors at Western University that that is to be expected from a 1911. We went through his weapon and got it reliably loading and shooting.
> 
> And to start another debate...I would rather carry a revolver at work than the issued HK P2000.


 the para P14 is a P14, not a 1911


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## Meangreen

Arizona Infidel said:


> the para P14 is a P14, not a 1911


True it is a double stack but you can't deny the heritage. Even Para calls it a 1911.


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## Rigged for Quiet

As for a 1911 being an unfriendly platform for an inexperienced sidearm owner, I disagree. Literally millions of inexperienced shooters have been trained on these weapons and the training maybe lasted half a day.

Even though I'm currently without one I am a huge 1911 fan. If ever there was a pistol that I was born to handle and operate it is a 1911. I don't know why, but we are an ergonomic match like no other weapon I have handled. My current sidearm of choice is a Glock 23. I don't seem to mind the .40 round. That being said, if someone offered a equal trade in quality, number of magazines and equitable number of rounds I'd probably suffer a brief anxiety attack before making the swap, lol.

I personally can't see myself owning a 9mm in a 1911 platform. If I'm going to put my eggs in a 9mm basket I want a basket that holds a shit load of eggs. Now a 9mm Hi Power, that gets my juices flowing as well.


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## Arizona Infidel

I don't really care what Even para calls it.


----------



## 9UC

Rigged for Quiet said:


> .....I personally can't see myself owning a 9mm in a 1911 platform. If I'm going to put my eggs in a 9mm basket I want a basket that holds a shit load of eggs. Now a 9mm Hi Power, that gets my juices flowing as well.


Agreed! If you're going to carry the size, get real and carry the full load. Away from the house I CC and enjoy the concealability of having a compact with a 3.5 in barrel.


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## Fuzzee

I do believe people should do research and try out what they end up buying, but at the same time I also know if someone just bought one of these they'll be just fine. :mrgreen:


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## Smitty901

Meangreen said:


> True it is a double stack but you can't deny the heritage. Even Para calls it a 1911.
> 
> View attachment 3432


I own Para double stack. It is an outstanding weapon. because it is a 14 round double stack .45 it is a bit heavy


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## Meangreen

Smitty901 said:


> I own Para double stack. It is an outstanding weapon. because it is a 14 round double stack .45 it is a bit heavy


I had one in .40 and this convinced me that a 1911 (or clone) should be in .45. I had a little work to do to mine to get it working right, including warrantying all the magazines thru Para. The springs were too weak and they were replaced with a woven double spring.


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## kevincali

Fuzzee said:


> I do believe people should do research and try out what they end up buying, but at the same time I also know if someone just bought one of these they'll be just fine. :mrgreen:
> 
> View attachment 3433


That looks familiar. Hmmmm








While I do love it, I've been looking at a 1911 in .45

Why stop at only one caliber???? And one type of gun?????


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## Smitty901

Meangreen said:


> I had one in .40 and this convinced me that a 1911 (or clone) should be in .45. I had a little work to do to mine to get it working right, including warrantying all the magazines thru Para. The springs were too weak and they were replaced with a woven double spring.


I am in agreement the 1911 is a 45


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## inceptor

kevincali said:


> That looks familiar. Hmmmm
> View attachment 3436
> 
> 
> While I do love it, I've been looking at a 1911 in .45
> 
> *Why stop at only one calibe*r???? And one type of gun?????


Cost, availability. The fewer calibers you have, the more you can accumulate and the more you have for each gun.


----------



## LunaticFringeInc

Meangreen said:


> Over 80% of law enforcement agencies use Glock.


Is that the same gun the police were using in that shoot out up north in the New England area where they shot something like 22 bystanders before getting the bad guy...don't remember the exact details as that was a few months ago. Im thinking there is an 80% chance here if we play the odds game.

My point is, that just because the police use it doesn't mean its the shiznick. The Military uses 9mm FMJ and they kill all kinds of hostile advesarys these days with it but would you choose a 124 gr FMJ as your carry ammo? A lot of cops these days suck at gun handling. Many never used a gun until they got on the force. About half of them that are able to maintain their qualification are actually kind of scary at the range when you watch them qualify! Armed Security Guards are even scarier!!! I wear a Threat Level IIIA bullet proof vest when I have to requalify!!! Most of these folks shoot patterns not groups! I have seen more than a few(even in the military) that would be better off throwing their gun at the target 15 feet away than they would be trying to shoot it! Its not the tool but the fool with the tool that really counts in a armed confrontation.

I still aint forgot the guy who brought his Glock into the gun shop one afternoon a few years back. I tried not to laugh but it was hard. Apparently while he was at work, Rover must have found where he stashed his pistol and used it as a chew toy. Long story short, it fired just fine, but the grip area was so chewed up you almost needed a crowbar to get the mag out of the gun and a press to cram another one up in the magazine well. There was little the gun smith could do to repair it. He had two options...order another frame for about 2/3 what the gun cost him new and wait about 6 to 8 weeks to get it or buy another plastic gun for a few bucks more. Now that just sucks! I aint got that problem with any of my steel guns...just saying


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## Fuzzee

kevincali said:


> That looks familiar. Hmmmm
> View attachment 3436
> 
> 
> While I do love it, I've been looking at a 1911 in .45
> 
> Why stop at only one caliber???? And one type of gun?????


You don't have to if you don't want to. People prep or should prep around what they feel they need or want to have and their budget. I don't personally feel the need or want for a .45, but that's me by my needs and wants. With my budget, and since their just sidearms, which are simply there to fight back to a rifle to me, prefer commonality of pistol and round. Hence I have several Beretta's and will buy more. I have only one pistol not a Beretta, but it's still 9mm.


----------



## Smitty901

rickfromillinois said:


> This year the U.S. Marine Corps ordered 20,000 1911's from Colt to replace the Beretta 9mm. I don't think that anyone with a lick of sense would claim that the Marines don't know what they are doing when it comes to firearms.


 You make a good point. But a weapon that serves the Military or LE may not be the best option for others.
I for personal reasons respect the 1911 but that does not mean I think the ones we own are the best weapon
for every use or person.
LE use Glock because they sell them Cheap to LE and in most case they carry what they are told to. I just saw a contract 350 for any model with extras .


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## Fuzzee

rickfromillinois said:


> This year the U.S. Marine Corps ordered 20,000 1911's from Colt to replace the Beretta 9mm. I don't think that anyone with a lick of sense would claim that the Marines don't know what they are doing when it comes to firearms.


Whatever a military branch or unit chooses to do in no way means it's the best thing for someone else or the best thing going in anyway. It may be the best for them, but that's about it.


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## Fuzzee

inceptor said:


> Cost, availability. The fewer calibers you have, the more you can accumulate and the more you have for each gun.


Yep. Common mags that work in every guns makes less confusion when reloading and passing them between people. Common caliber makes exactly as you said and less confusion for those besides you who may not be as experienced when reloading or working setting up a rig. Imagine how it will be for the guy with 20 different pistols and calibers trying to get his cousin or wife to load particular mags for a particular sidearm. And in a fire fight they'll be no chance of passing a mag to someone who ran dry or getting one himself. One could be chaos and the other could save someone's life.


----------



## jimb1972

Fuzzee said:


> Yep. Common mags that work in every guns makes less confusion when reloading and passing them between people. Common caliber makes exactly as you said and less confusion for those besides you who may not be as experienced when reloading or working setting up a rig. Imagine how it will be for the guy with 20 different pistols and calibers trying to get his cousin or wife to load particular mags for a particular sidearm. And in a fire fight they'll be no chance of passing a mag to someone who ran dry or getting one himself. One could be chaos and the other could save someone's life.


If you are in a fire fight using multiple mags in pistols your problems are bigger than magazine compatability. There is also an advantage in having a diverse enough assortment of firearms that you can make use of any ammunition you may find.


----------



## Meangreen

LunaticFringeInc said:


> Is that the same gun the police were using in that shoot out up north in the New England area where they shot something like 22 bystanders before getting the bad guy...don't remember the exact details as that was a few months ago. Im thinking there is an 80% chance here if we play the odds game.
> 
> My point is, that just because the police use it doesn't mean its the shiznick. The Military uses 9mm FMJ and they kill all kinds of hostile advesarys these days with it but would you choose a 124 gr FMJ as your carry ammo? A lot of cops these days suck at gun handling. Many never used a gun until they got on the force. About half of them that are able to maintain their qualification are actually kind of scary at the range when you watch them qualify! Armed Security Guards are even scarier!!! I wear a Threat Level IIIA bullet proof vest when I have to requalify!!! Most of these folks shoot patterns not groups! I have seen more than a few(even in the military) that would be better off throwing their gun at the target 15 feet away than they would be trying to shoot it! Its not the tool but the fool with the tool that really counts in a armed confrontation.
> 
> I still aint forgot the guy who brought his Glock into the gun shop one afternoon a few years back. I tried not to laugh but it was hard. Apparently while he was at work, Rover must have found where he stashed his pistol and used it as a chew toy. Long story short, it fired just fine, but the grip area was so chewed up you almost needed a crowbar to get the mag out of the gun and a press to cram another one up in the magazine well. There was little the gun smith could do to repair it. He had two options...order another frame for about 2/3 what the gun cost him new and wait about 6 to 8 weeks to get it or buy another plastic gun for a few bucks more. Now that just sucks! I aint got that problem with any of my steel guns...just saying


I have seen a few in my agency as well. There was an agent that hid his gun in the oven and when they returned from their trip, the wife fired up the oven. Grip and frame looked like a pancake. Had another female agent place her firearm in the dishwasher to clean it. Pretty amazing because it was clean but the springs were pure corrosion. Glock is the best deal at first but what they do is give the guns up front for a really good price but in the contract all parts and maintenance must come from the Glock factory and they rake you over the coals for any repair.


----------



## Fuzzee

jimb1972 said:


> If you are in a fire fight using multiple mags in pistols your problems are bigger than magazine compatability. There is also an advantage in having a diverse enough assortment of firearms that you can make use of any ammunition you may find.


If you're in any fight you've got problems, that doesn't mean commonality isn't worth it. Anything can happen and being capable and better prepared have never been a bad thing that I've ever seen. If you've got the money and desire for diverse firearms, go right ahead. But just how likely are you going to come across some ammo when shtf without a firearm to go with it. More than likely picked up off the ground or out of the hands of the person you just killed and survived against, getting what ammo they had left in the firearm and spare mags or carrier if they had any. Walking into a building and coming across a stash is either fantasy or much more rare.


----------



## Fuzzee

Meangreen said:


> I have seen a few in my agency as well. There was an agent that hid his gun in the oven and when they returned from their trip, the wife fired up the oven. Grip and frame looked like a pancake. Had another female agent place her firearm in the dishwasher to clean it. Pretty amazing because it was clean but the springs were pure corrosion. Glock is the best deal at first but what they do is give the guns up front for a really good price but in the contract all parts and maintenance must come from the Glock factory and they rake you over the coals for any repair.


Mmmmm, pancakes.


----------



## unioncreek

I would shoot both and see which caliber you like the best some people just don't like a 45. If you look at FBI stats the 9mm is very comparable to a 45. Plus 9mm is about half the price. If you decide to go with another pistol, go to a range and shoot what they have. Personally I don't like Glocks, their ergonomics does not fit me. I own a Springfield XD9 and I can shoot a lot better with it than any other handgun.

Bob


----------



## Montana Rancher

budgetprepp-n said:


> I'm looking to buy a side arm. Not for concealment but rather a side arm for after TSHTF
> I guess I'm sort of old school I like the 1911s. But I can't decide between a 45 or 9mm
> What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?


Sorry I didn't read all the replies, so this may have been said.

BUY A GLOCK

First reason if you don't have one it is the easiest gun to use, the safety is the trigger, once you put your finger on it, it is OFF.

I used 1911's in the army and they have several safeties which in a high stress situation you may not remember to disengage. Glock-trigger-bang, it is that simple.

Glocks have more magazine capacity than a 1911, weight less, and cost less.

hmmmm trying to remember what else matters....

Oh yes, with a Glock since you have no external safeties, the gun is much more "sleek" and doesn't get hung up on clothing, holsters, etc if you have to draw fast.

My favorite gun ATM is a Taurus .357 wheel gun (7 shot) but you did restrict us to 9mm or .45


----------



## budgetprepp-n

I'm sorry but the "red neck" in me doesn't care for a clock,, I don't know why ,, But I just dont.
I have been carrying a Tokarev and I like it. I can pull it apart in the dark and on a good day I can put it back together.
And I like the looks of it. But it shoots a very fast smaller bullet. I just was looking to move up to something with a little more punch.
I'm going to post a picture of a 1903 1911 style And a picture of a Tokarev and I think you will see why I'm sort of stuck on the 
1911 platform. The tokarev below is my favorite pistol. But I'm looking for a new harder hitting favorite 

above is the Tokarev this is a Russian wwII side arm Below is the 1903 browning
see any similarities? I really like the Tokarev this is why I am going to stay with a 1911 style for now


----------



## Arizona Infidel

budgetprepp-n said:


> I'm sorry but the "red neck" in me doesn't care for a clock,, I don't know why ,, But I just dont.
> I have been carrying a Tokarev and I like it. I can pull it apart in the dark and on a good day I can put it back together.
> And I like the looks of it. But it shoots a very fast smaller bullet. I just was looking to move up to something with a little more punch.
> I'm going to post a picture of a 1903 1911 style And a picture of a Tokarev and I think you will see why I'm sort of stuck on the
> 1911 platform. The tokarev below is my favorite pistol. But I'm looking for a new harder hitting favorite
> 
> above is the Tokarev this is a Russian wwII side arm Below is the 1903 browning
> see any similarities? I really like the Tokarev this is why I am going to stay with a 1911 style for now


 ******* Power.
Check this out.




[/video]
That's why .45.


----------



## Fuzzee

budgetprepp-n said:


> I'm sorry but the "red neck" in me doesn't care for a clock,, I don't know why ,, But I just dont.
> I have been carrying a Tokarev and I like it. I can pull it apart in the dark and on a good day I can put it back together.
> And I like the looks of it. But it shoots a very fast smaller bullet. I just was looking to move up to something with a little more punch.
> I'm going to post a picture of a 1903 1911 style And a picture of a Tokarev and I think you will see why I'm sort of stuck on the
> 1911 platform. The tokarev below is my favorite pistol. But I'm looking for a new harder hitting favorite
> above is the Tokarev this is a Russian wwII side arm Below is the 1903 browning
> see any similarities? I really like the Tokarev this is why I am going to stay with a 1911 style for now


You sound like a CZ owner to be if I ever heard one.

CZ-USA -> Product Categories

Buy CZ USA Pistols


----------



## tango

Prepper's should be familiar with a lot of weapons, handguns, rifles, and shotguns, of different manufacture.
You never know what you may be required to use.
You never know what you may "happen upon'---


----------



## lgustavus81

tango said:


> Prepper's should be familiar with a lot of weapons, handguns, rifles, and shotguns, of different manufacture.
> You never know what you may be required to use.
> You never know what you may "happen upon'---


+1! I own all 3 types of those firearms gotta have something for every occasion!


----------



## inceptor

This says it all.


----------



## jimb1972

I can shoot the bullets I cast myself in my .45, how many Glock owners can say that? I did not even have to buy an aftermarket barrel to do it accurately.


----------



## Meangreen

Balls004 said:


> Wow, after an hour of reading all the posts, my wife pointed out to me that this was all my fault (surprise!), because I inadvertantly assumed from the original question that if you were debating 9mm vs. .45acp, that you might be needing a little more help deciding on a sidearm than just what caliber. Now that I've been shown the error of mine, I apoligize mightily to all and feel bad for igniting such a s**tstorm. Now, that being said...
> 
> I think it's still a valid point of argument as far as experience goes, when someone inquires 9mm vs .45 in a 1911 platform. I qualified expert with the 1911A1, whatever they called the S&W .38 aircrew, as well as the aerial M60, MP5 and M16A1 back in the day (got expert in grenade too, 'cause I danged sure didn't want to hang on to it!). I also performed duties as our unit armorer. As for shooting the 1911 well, I was never what I would call comfortable with the ergonomics, and although the recoil was manageable, was more than I liked. I did like it way more than the issue .38's for the purpose of having to stop someone. Also, the 1911's we had were finicky, spending way more time at next level maintenance than in our unit armory (they were heavily worn). Until I actually had the opportunity to shoot some of the better competitive 1911's, I would have had a problem recommending one in most cases.
> 
> I will still stand by my assertion that a sidearm should be selected by what really works for you, both in style and caliber. I'm not a big guy, I don't have big hands and there are pistols that fit me better and thus increase my first hit probability. My choice of caliber is partially based on balistics available in the popular three...9mm, .40s&w, and .45acp. I have all three, but my wife prefers the .40. So we both carry .40's happily.
> And since she's the one I've really gotta keep happy, that works for me. I'll tell you, you do not want her to shoot at you with any of them. It would ruin your day.
> 
> So, get what you can run well and practice, and things will take care of themselves. IMHO


Don't be sorry and this is one of the oldest arguments on any forum and as you can see people never get tired of it. To be honest I will throw out the proverbial bone just to watch what happens.

An AK is way better than an AR!

A shotgun is the only home defense weapon worth having!

A 1911 is an antiquated antique, a Glock is far better!

Chevy's suck and a Ford is the only way to go!

watch  Te he


----------



## lgustavus81

Love my AR. Just sayin!


----------



## Meangreen

lgustavus81 said:


> Love my AR. Just sayin!


I now own both and each is a respectable weapon but that doesn't stop people from arguing the point for days.


----------



## inceptor

I figure you must be using some of the stuff you confiscate. That's the only reasonable explanation for these comments.



Meangreen said:


> An AK is way better than an AR!


Only if accuracy doesn't count. That's kinda like spray and pray.



Meangreen said:


> A shotgun is the only home defense weapon worth having!


smh.... a .45acp with a laser, you won't destroy your stuff while taking down a bad guy.



Meangreen said:


> A 1911 is an antiquated antique, a Glock is far better!


Glock perfection gen 24.......... they may get it right someday :lol:



Meangreen said:


> Chevy's suck and a Ford is the only way to go!


This only proves your keeping some of that stuff................for personal use.


----------



## dannydefense

Meangreen said:


> Chevy's suck and a Ford is the only way to go!


Oh my friggin gawd, he finally said something sensible. I thought we were losing him.


----------



## Meangreen

inceptor said:


> I figure you must be using some of the stuff you confiscate. That's the only reasonable explanation for these comments.
> 
> Only if accuracy doesn't count. That's kinda like spray and pray.
> 
> smh.... a .45acp with a laser, you won't destroy your stuff while taking down a bad guy.
> 
> Glock perfection gen 24.......... they may get it right someday :lol:
> 
> This only proves your keeping some of that stuff................for personal use.


I don't keep anything and I have seized millions in cash and all kinds of stuff. I can honestly say the only time I was really temped was when I seized a Belgium made Brownie High Power from an illegal alien drug smuggler. I could have pistol whipped him with it and said, why! Why! I reluctantly turned it over to ATF.


----------



## Meangreen

dannydefense said:


> Oh my friggin gawd, he finally said something sensible. I thought we were losing him.


That one was for you bud!


----------



## Meangreen

See it's starting again!!! It's alive alive!!! Te he I'm evil evil evil :twisted:


----------



## inceptor

Meangreen said:


> I don't keep anything and I have seized millions in cash and all kinds of stuff. I can honestly say the only time I was really temped was when I seized a Belgium made Brownie High Power from an illegal alien drug smuggler. I could have pistol whipped him with it and said, why! Why! I reluctantly turned it over to ATF.


I figure you have to be using with those comments.


----------



## Meangreen

inceptor said:


> I figure you have to be using with those comments.


No just an honest gun nut.


----------



## Seneca

Last time I threw the bone down the dog snagged it and buried it in the back yard. 
Smart dog!


----------



## lgustavus81

Still love my AR! got that pretty little Pelican 1600 case from a coworker of mine to store it in last week!


----------



## paraquack

My daddy told me, "Opinions are like armpits, they all stink and everyone has at least 2."


----------



## Meangreen

I carry and train with AR's at work and they are full auto so I always thought that why buy my own because I usually just shoot the ones at work and if TSHTF I would liberate one and put it in my tricky bag. Well a friend of mine milled me a receiver from a 80% complete receiver. I thought great I will just sit on it and build one later. Well found a big sale on uppers and such so that build will happen sooner than expected. I went a different direction than the usual M4. I went with a 24" bull barrel and standard A1 stock.


----------



## Southern Dad

After the SHTF you will not want just one weapon as your sidearm. Personally, while I love my M1911A1, the large caliber weapon sends a powerful message, there are times when a small .25 semi-automatic may be preferred. Noise can certainly be your enemy at times. There will be times you need to have a weapon concealed and times you want it visible.


----------



## inceptor

Meangreen said:


> I carry and train with AR's at work and they are full auto so I always thought that why buy my own because I usually just shoot the ones at work and if TSHTF I would liberate one and put it in my tricky bag. Well a friend of mine milled me a receiver from a 80% complete receiver. I thought great I will just sit on it and build one later. Well found a big sale on uppers and such so that build will happen sooner than expected. I went a different direction than the usual M4. I went with a 24" bull barrel and standard A1 stock.


No pictures, it didn't happen. PICTURES!


----------



## Arizona Infidel

Ya. I'm not even a big AR fan and I'd like to see pics.


----------



## dannydefense

lgustavus81 said:


> Still love my AR! got that pretty little Pelican 1600 case from a coworker of mine to store it in last week!


Whoah there. You forgot the GoPro, passive IR system, and smart phone holder! Geez man.


----------



## lgustavus81

dannydefense said:


> Whoah there. You forgot the GoPro, passive IR system, and smart phone holder! Geez man.


They back ordered the shit on me!


----------



## PrepperLite

Meangreen said:


> Don't be sorry and this is one of the oldest arguments on any forum and as you can see people never get tired of it. To be honest I will throw out the proverbial bone just to watch what happens.
> 
> An AK is way better than an AR!
> 
> A shotgun is the only home defense weapon worth having!
> 
> A 1911 is an antiquated antique, a Glock is far better!
> 
> Chevy's suck and a Ford is the only way to go!
> 
> watch  Te he


Way to derail a thread. ;P


----------



## Smitty901

Ok I stayed quiet as long as I can on the Glock thing.
Yes I have fired them no I was not impressed. They are fat over rated weapons that work.
Over priced except when sold to LE . 
That is how they built their hyped reputation. 
I will stick with Weapons made by a US owned company in The US as long as I can.
There will always be an exception now and then to any plan.


----------



## lgustavus81

Smitty901 said:


> Ok I stayed quiet as long as I can on the Glock thing.
> Yes I have fired them no I was not impressed. They are fat over rated weapons that work.
> Over priced except when sold to LE .
> That is how they built their hyped reputation.
> I will stick with Weapons made by a US owned company in The US as long as I can.
> There will always be an exception now and then to any plan.


I have to agree with this statement. I have shot Glock before and I am accurate with them. Just don't ever plan on spending my money on one. If I need a go to war gun I have my Sigs!


----------



## budgetprepp-n

I have a question and I figured I might as well post it here since this thread has gone rouge. (that means it's a good one)
Ok,, I was looking at a Rock Island 1911 45 and I have some questions,,

The side of the gun looked like a bill board for advertising there name. Can I take that off?

The 9mm looks like the 45 so If I buy a 45 will a magazine, barrel and the barrel retainer from a 9mm will that work for a conversion kit? (have a two in one 45 and 9mm)

And has anyone had any experience with this brand?


----------



## inceptor

budgetprepp-n said:


> I have a question and I figured I might as well post it here since this thread has gone rouge. (that means it's a good one)
> Ok,, I was looking at a Rock Island 1911 45 and I have some questions,,
> 
> The side of the gun looked like a bill board for advertising there name. Can I take that off?
> 
> The 9mm looks like the 45 so If I buy a 45 will a magazine, barrel and the barrel retainer from a 9mm will that work for a conversion kit? (have a two in one 45 and 9mm)
> 
> And has anyone had any experience with this brand?


Can't tell you about the conversation as I only place with grownup calibers but the slide can be replaced. You can find generic ones and gun shows and probably on the internet.


----------



## jimb1972

budgetprepp-n said:


> I have a question and I figured I might as well post it here since this thread has gone rouge. (that means it's a good one)
> Ok,, I was looking at a Rock Island 1911 45 and I have some questions,,
> 
> The side of the gun looked like a bill board for advertising there name. Can I take that off?
> 
> The 9mm looks like the 45 so If I buy a 45 will a magazine, barrel and the barrel retainer from a 9mm will that work for a conversion kit? (have a two in one 45 and 9mm)
> 
> And has anyone had any experience with this brand?


Won't work unless you swap the slide out too, unless you want a single shot. The extractor on the .45 slide wont even touch the 9mm.


----------



## Fuzzee

I'll be one more to chime in about there being nothing spectacular about a Glock other than there fairly reliable, with basic controls and easy enough for people to care for that don't know how to care for a weapon. They feel more like a brick than any other pistol I've ever used, even the Gen 4's and the trigger is squishy. In polymer framed pistols I'd happily take a Beretta PX4 before one anyday. Even for those who can't handle a sidearm with a manual safety they make a Type C model with a constant trigger action (double).


----------



## dannydefense

Bo Duke said:


> John Wayne and Chuck Connors both carried a Winchester repeating rifle and no one ever messed with them....


I really hope I don't have to explain why that's two very bad examples.


----------



## poriggity

My choice would be a Springfield XD9. I own the subcompact version, and while I am not legally permitted to carry it, I LOVE shooting it.

Scott


----------



## sarge1967

My vote would be either a Walther PPQ in 9mm or a S&W M&P9 Pro Series. We own both and they have been completely reliable, are highly accurate, have far better ergonomics than Glock. The trigger on the PPQ is incredible. The M&P is the softest shooting nine I have ever fired.


----------



## Pir8fan

I'd go with the M&P or Glock 19. 9mm is used by most law enforcement, military and civilian shooters. Both pistols are super reliable.


----------



## SDF880

Chipper said:


> Just buy the Glock and a few mags and forget the 1911. I'd say a Glock 20 in 10mm with 15 rounds. Yes I've owned a bunch of 1911's, until I started shooting the Glocks. Sold all of them. Couple years ago I would have never thought about those plastic pieces of junk. But a well informed neighbor enlightened me and changed my train of thought.
> 
> Now before everyone of the ole guys get their feathers all ruffled up let me explain. Your looking for a survival/self defense gun right. WHY do want anything with a grip safety, thumb safety and only 7 rounds capacity. Just more stuff to go wrong when it counts. Is the safety on or off? Do I have the grip right so it will fire? WOW 7 whole rounds before another reload. C,mom really.
> 
> Now the Glock 20 in 10mm. Point at the target and pull the trigger, that's it. It's pretty easy in a life or death situation. Plus you have 16 rounds, one in the chamber and 15 round mags. 25 round mags are available if that isn't enough, modified Glock 21 mags. No need to argue 45acp or 9mm vs the 10 mm. You'll never get a 45 up to the power level of the 10mm, custom reloads or factory ammo. Glocks can be found new for the low $500's. You can buy 2 for the price of a "good" quality 1911.
> 
> I know it may be a hard pill to swallow and admit that there are better guns available then the good ole 1911. IMO


I second this! I recently went from a G21 set-up to carry a G20 and G29 back-up. The G29 will also take the G20 mags and the G20 gices you 2 more shots over the G21.
My G21 is still right there too if I need it.


----------



## Pir8fan

Chipper said:


> Just buy the Glock and a few mags and forget the 1911. I'd say a Glock 20 in 10mm with 15 rounds. Yes I've owned a bunch of 1911's, until I started shooting the Glocks. Sold all of them. Couple years ago I would have never thought about those plastic pieces of junk. But a well informed neighbor enlightened me and changed my train of thought.
> 
> Now before everyone of the ole guys get their feathers all ruffled up let me explain. Your looking for a survival/self defense gun right. WHY do want anything with a grip safety, thumb safety and only 7 rounds capacity. Just more stuff to go wrong when it counts. Is the safety on or off? Do I have the grip right so it will fire? WOW 7 whole rounds before another reload. C,mom really.
> 
> Now the Glock 20 in 10mm. Point at the target and pull the trigger, that's it. It's pretty easy in a life or death situation. Plus you have 16 rounds, one in the chamber and 15 round mags. 25 round mags are available if that isn't enough, modified Glock 21 mags. No need to argue 45acp or 9mm vs the 10 mm. You'll never get a 45 up to the power level of the 10mm, custom reloads or factory ammo. Glocks can be found new for the low $500's. You can buy 2 for the price of a "good" quality 1911.
> 
> I know it may be a hard pill to swallow and admit that there are better guns available then the good ole 1911. IMO


I agree, mostly. I love the 1911 platform but in a true SHTF situation! my 1911s would be left behind and I would take my M&P. the Glocks just don't fit me and I'm not willing to adapt to the gun. The gun must fit me.


----------



## BamaBoy101

budgetprepp-n said:


> I'm looking to buy a side arm. Not for concealment but rather a side arm for after TSHTF
> I guess I'm sort of old school I like the 1911s. But I can't decide between a 45 or 9mm
> What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?


You couldn't chase me fast enough to give me a 9mm but I would recommend a 40 cal glock...


----------



## paraquack

My wife carries a 9mm and I carry a .45 ACP, 12 shot mag


----------



## XMTG

I would stick with one of the two most popular calibers out there, 9mm or 45 ACP. You can not go wrong with either one. If you look at some quality hollow point ammunition you will see that the 9mm expands bigger than a .40 caliber does. Larger expanded bullet through tissue means a larger permanent wound channel and that means no more threat if the bullet was put in the right place. With the advances in bullets the .40 is really left out in the cold. I have seen just about every 1911 manufacturer malfunction due to extractor or magazine issues. 1911's are finicky guns. When they run, they run great but when they don't you can't make em work right without a lot of work. They are not what I would call a good worst case scenario gun. I would stick with a high capacity striker fired weapon with no manual safeties to manipulate. Unless you train and train a lot you can not operate levers under stress. That is a fine motor skill and under stress they are the first to go. I hope this helps you decide on what side arm to purchase. My handguns are .45 and 9mm's .


----------



## Gunner's Mate

ok here is my 2 cents, I have 3 1911's all colts in 45 acp , I have 2 springfields a xdm in 45 acp and a xd in 9mm, I have a glock 23 gen 4 in 40 cal and a berreta 96 in 40 cal , I a couple revolvers S&W 686 357 mag and S&W 629 44 mag and I have tons of trigger time on all,the 1911's well I like em they point well have pretty . good triggers, they are stupid easy to operate and reasonably accurate buttttt the damn slide release is a little bit short for me that can be solved with an extended slide release, also thin for easy conceal. Now for the the springfields 9mm xd its good accurate, the trigger not the best but can be remedied with after market parts its a large and has high cap mags, it fits my hand well but does not seem to point as naturally as the 1911's also I am not a big fan of the 9mm. now the springfield xdm in 45 acp everyone thats picked it up really likes the way it feels in their hand including me shoots well, points well, reasonably accurate and very concealable with the small mags 9 rounds but it also comes with an xtended 13 round mag now thats slingin some serious lead down range for a 45 acp. Now for the glock I freaking hate glocks if your hands get sweaty they really get slick in your hands and mine is worthless when it comes to accuracy I talking couldn't hit the broadside of a barn if you were standing inside of it total P.O.S. and the damn trigger suckssss
Ok now for the berreta 96 40 cal I paid 250.00 bucks for it at a pawn shop and hands down its the most accurate auto I have ever owned or shot I mean I am talking breaking clay pigeons at a 100 yards type accurate I love my berreta. Now for the revolvers the 686 is on the night stand every night its my wake up in the middle of the night go to gun!!!! no jams, no stove pipes, no safety's no magazines, just squeeze the damn trigger and it goes bang great double action trigger great sights, points well and very accurate, and so easy use the wife can shoot it. 
Now for the 629 44 mag this is my favorite handgun awesome trigger awesome sights and awesome accuracy and incredible deadly, I mean you dont walk away from a 44 mag wound everything I have ever killed with my 44 died instantly and violently, oh and did I mention accurate












thats five shots offhand at 25 yards with iron sights and I have taken Hogs with it at a shade over 200 yards with iron sights


----------



## Gunner's Mate

My moto with weapons / caliber, is you can never overkill something you can however underkill something thats why I dont like the 9mm 
I really Like my 1911's 
But if I could only have one auto I think I would choose my berreta 96
One revolver it would be my 629


----------



## jimb1972

Pir8fan said:


> I agree, mostly. I love the 1911 platform but in a true SHTF situation! my 1911s would be left behind and I would take my M&P. the Glocks just don't fit me and I'm not willing to adapt to the gun. The gun must fit me.


I took a belt sander to mine and it made a world of difference.


----------



## Gunner's Mate

Another note about the Polymer guns most have really crappy triggers. The hardest thing to overcome accuracy wise is a really bad trigger. A lot of things have to come together to shoot accurately Trigger, Ammo selection, Grip / Stance, breathing, sight picture, ect... But a bad trigger is the worst, followed by bad habits, Anyone that shoots competitively will either install a (MATCH TRIGGER) or have a smith work the trigger over.


----------



## Gunner's Mate

Another side note revolvers dont sling brass everywhere. That may or may not be important to you but I handload and I kinda like not having to search hells half acre for all my brass.


----------



## Smokin04

Getting into this one late....but here's my take.

The most common calibers in America are (in that order):
9mm (just barely over the...)
.45
.22

Personally, I feel like you should have one for the job. You don't want to go shooting a bear with a .22. You'll just piss him/her off. For a prepper though...caliber is important. You want to keep things on the cheap as much as possible. Keeping to the most common calibers will ensure that when you do kill bad guys, they will be carrying these calibers. (Rifle caliber is another subject) So...in a nut shell. A firearm is a tool and there is a right/correct tool for the job. You need to be more descriptive about what your particular mission is. Are you killing bears, or protecting yourself against humans? Hunting moose...or squirrel? I have a pistol in each of the most common calibers because when SHTF I want the most abundant ammo around. Rifles and shotguns will be around as well...but I like to think that I will have a tool capable of utilizing what ever resource (ammo) I find. If I don't, I can at least have enough brass, powder, and primers to break down what I do find into a useable commodity. Cheers.


----------



## Gunner's Mate

You left out 40 Cal S&W very popular LEO


Smokin04 said:


> Getting into this one late....but here's my take.
> 
> The most common calibers in America are (in that order):
> 9mm (just barely over the...)
> .45
> .22
> 
> Personally, I feel like you should have one for the job. You don't want to go shooting a bear with a .22. You'll just piss him/her off. For a prepper though...caliber is important. You want to keep things on the cheap as much as possible. Keeping to the most common calibers will ensure that when you do kill bad guys, they will be carrying these calibers. (Rifle caliber is another subject) So...in a nut shell. A firearm is a tool and there is a right/correct tool for the job. You need to be more descriptive about what your particular mission is. Are you killing bears, or protecting yourself against humans? Hunting moose...or squirrel? I have a pistol in each of the most common calibers because when SHTF I want the most abundant ammo around. Rifles and shotguns will be around as well...but I like to think that I will have a tool capable of utilizing what ever resource (ammo) I find. If I don't, I can at least have enough brass, powder, and primers to break down what I do find into a useable commodity. Cheers.


----------



## Smokin04

As a prior LEO...yes .40 is very popular. But not more popular than the 3 I listed. Sure, most PD's carry .40's. Military carries 9mm. Hobbyist's carry .45's. We should start a poll on here though. My poll only reached 200ish gun owners. And of those 200ish...the top 3 are what I listed in that order. Voters could vote more than once as well, but not more than 3 times. I was shocked that .40 wasn't top 3. But in fact, it was tied for 5th place (or numerically 29.95% of owners). I have to assume, this trend would mirror national sales...

My results looked like this:
9mm = 61.93%
.45 = 60.41%
.22-.25 = 53.30%
.38-.380 = 47.21%
.357 = 34.01%
.40 tied with "other" = 29.95%
.44 MAG, .460, .50 = 18.27%


----------



## Denton

I'm no hobbyist; I am serious.

Still, six sidearms are .45, one is 9mm, and one is .357 mag. Oh, there is the .38. Almost forgot about that one.

Oh, yeah, the .380.

Ah, I suppose the .22 boot pistol should be included. My bad.

No, I have no intention of handing over my wallet.


----------



## Smokin04

Maybe "hobbyist" was too light of a term. Avid range shooter, or CCP individuals usually prefer the .45. My personal 3 favorite calibers are in THIS order:

.45 (tied with 10mm)
9mm
.40


----------



## PaulS

357 mag and 45 Colt (no autos)

I practice and I like to spend more time shooting than I do policing brass. I HATE hunting for my brass. Did I tell you I don't own autos? Did I say why?


----------



## Denton

PaulS said:


> 357 mag and 45 Colt (no autos)
> 
> I practice and I like to spend more time shooting than I do policing brass. I HATE hunting for my brass. Did I tell you I don't own autos? Did I say why?


I police more brass than I drop. My reloading buddies owe me a LOT of rounds!


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## Leon

I like the smith and wesson xd40


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## PaulS

Denton,
between rounds I pick up range brass too. It is good trading stock or a reason to get a new gun. One day I found 50 rounds of 30 carbine brass - I couldn't believe it. Usually its 9mm around the range. I have found some 223 and 5.56 rounds but not as many as I would like. I just got a 223 and 7mmTCU and I plan to use 223 brass for the 223 and 5.56 brass for the 7mmTCU - that way I won't confuse the two. I keep a quart size zip-lock baggy in my range bag for range brass.


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## Smokin04

Leon said:


> I like the smith and wesson xd40


+1. I had one in subcompact. I used as a CC gun. I traded it though for my Taurus PT740. The XD was a bit too thick and I couldn't wear it comfortably. The Taurus feels very natural and is not cumbersome or awkward in anyway. I did like the Springfields trigger though. Very smooth break and solid feeling pistol.


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## Notsoyoung

Correct me if I am wrong, but the question was basically "should I get a 1911 in 9mm or .45?". Then as usual we get the "Glocks are great and 1911's are outdated" responses, then everybody jumps in with their favorite sidearms. That isn't the question, the question is 1911 in 9mm or .45? IMO the answer is .45.


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## tango

Go to a gun shop, handle as many pistols as they have in 9mm and 45
Which one feels best?
Some gun ranges have rental guns, shoot the ones that you like.
Buy what you are comfortable shooting and what fits your hand.
It ain't that difficult.
With the modern ammo choices, in 9mm and 45, either will serve well.


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## jeff70

Personally I like the 9mm, one reason is the wife can handle the round, and sorry to say but if SHTF and I need ammo 9mm is very popular and I stand a good chance of "finding" some.
The main thing is to try both rounds and see what you like, if you don't like it you won't use it and practice with it.


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## Smokin04

I feel it comes down to what the intended target is. I had to shoot a dog that was trying to attack my dog in Northern Iraq. Feral dogs are all over out there. I didn't have my M4...just my beretta. I put 6 rounds point blank (including 2 through the head) and that dog didn't die. Granted the Geneva Convention prevented us from carrying hollow-point in theater, so I was shooting ball ammo. But still 6 rounds...for a 30 pound dog. Only reason it stopped attacking was round 6 went through its spine and paralyzed it. It took two more directly between the eyes to finish is off. 

I believe 2 rounds of .45 would've been all I needed for that job. I want to say 9mm is good for targets at 50 yds. It's a high velocity round that doesn't lose too much energy at distance. Where as at very close (pistol) range, a .45 will be about all you need to stop most anything. If you want the best of both worlds (velocity and grain weight) buy a 10mm. Usually come in 165-230 grain and move at 9mm speed. Trouble is...rounds are scarce and expensive.


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## shadownmss

My side arm SHTF or otherwise is a Kimber 1911 in .45 ACP. If ammo capacity is a major concern check out the Para Ordinance 14.45 that has double stack 14 round mags for .45 ACP

PARA: Expert 14.45

I am also considering a .460 Rowland conversion kit for my 1911 which will give you almost .44 Magnum performance

http://460rowland.com/authentic-460-rowland-onversions/


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## jimb1972

.38 super just to piss everybody off. The capacity of a 9mm with power similar to the .45acp, best of both worlds.


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## dwight55

budgetprepp-n said:


> I'm looking to buy a side arm. Not for concealment but rather a side arm for after TSHTF
> I guess I'm sort of old school I like the 1911s. But I can't decide between a 45 or 9mm
> What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?


First, . . . disregard any advice about the plastic fantastics, . . . all of them. When TSHTF arrives, . . . there will be zero possibility of ever repairing a broken plastic fantastic. A 1911 can be (albeit crudely) repaired by almost any competent blacksmith, tinkerer, or gunsmith.

Second, . . . major advantage of 45 is the greater effective power, . . . proven time and time again, . . . ask the combat vets who just came back from the sand box, . . . they'll be more than happy to tell you that 9mm ball ammo just is NOT as effective.

Somewhat advantage of 9mm, . . . someone already mentioned it, . . . more likely to find 9mm ammo than just about any other these days (other than .22 rimfire), . . .

Stay away from .40, . . . .380, . . . any of the magnums, . . . 38's also. Even today, . . . those ammo's are hard to come by, . . . and come SHTF, . . . it will be ton's worse.

Stay with the .45 or the 9mm for ammo choice, . . . shoot em both, . . . probably the best idea is to choose whichever of the two you shoot the best. Personally, I'm a .45 type, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight


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## rice paddy daddy

jimb1972 said:


> .38 super just to piss everybody off. The capacity of a 9mm with power similar to the .45acp, best of both worlds.


Ahhh! .38 Super. I've always wanted a Colt made 1911 in that cartridge.
I'll bet the modern plastic fans don't even know what that is.
Didn't Bonnie and Clyde soak up some 38 Super rounds in addition to 30-06 in their final fight?


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## ekim

I guess I'm the odd one here. If you don't already have your side arm, battle weapon and hunting weapon you are way behind the curve and need to get it in gear. Buy what you can shoot/afford and quit beating around the bush trying to impress others with your choice. It seems most here have more money to collect guns than prepare for the times ahead. I have never been one to buy what others think I should have, common sense should be the deciding factor, IMO. I can't justify buying another gun til I have my other preps where they need to be. I wish I had half the choices many seen to have, just even when it comes to which gun you will grab first. If gun X won't do the job I'll get my xyz out then we'll see what happens, yea right. If gun X doesn't work out for you do you really think you will have time to get your other best choice out and in action?


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## specknowsbest

I'm partial to .45, but that's also because the two .45s I own have enough ammo capacity to not leave me at any real disadvantage (my Taurus PT845 has a 12+1 capacity and my SIG P250 Compact .45 has a 10+1 capacity). At the end of the day though, I'd personally recommend carrying two side arms, a primary and a secondary. You can keep the .45 on your hip or chest rig for immediate "Big" rounds to put downrange, and then transition to your alternate instead of loading a second mag. A buddy of mine keeps his Springfield XDM Compact 9mm at my place since he lives in the barracks, and he lets me carry it when I please, and it's definitely turned me onto them, it's a little heavier than my Taurus, but the thing is just so damn durable and balanced. So, I'd say that I'd keep a .45 as my primary sidearm and a 9mm as my secondary, with at least one spare mag for each of them.


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## dannydefense

specknowsbest said:


> So, I'd say that I'd keep a .45 as my primary sidearm and a 9mm as my secondary, with at least one spare mag for each of them.


Why stop there? A .380 in an ankle holster and some single shot dillingers should round it out pretty good. I'm just messing with ya.  My .45 is my secondary, and if after unloading a 30 round magazine followed by a 7 round I still haven't found cover or neutralized the threat, I think it's time to switch to my tertiary begging for mercy and running. At that point a third weapon is just weighing you down, unless we're just talking about around town... then I agree your setup isn't a bad idea at all.


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## specknowsbest

dannydefense said:


> Why stop there? A .380 in an ankle holster and some single shot dillingers should round it out pretty good. I'm just messing with ya.  My .45 is my secondary, and if after unloading a 30 round magazine followed by a 7 round I still haven't found cover or neutralized the threat, I think it's time to switch to my tertiary begging for mercy and running. At that point a third weapon is just weighing you down, unless we're just talking about around town... then I agree your setup isn't a bad idea at all.


Well, if it's walking for a potential fight then I'd be carrying three firearms, my primary being my SKS, followed by my .45 followed by a decent 9mm. Given that I've walked, carried and worn a significantly larger amount of gear before and walking miles with it, having three firearms for a combined weight of maybe 10lbs really isn't that big of a deal to me. lol

If I'm just carrying around town in a normal day then I'll stick with the SIG on an IWB holster and maybe a pocket gun like my .22 derringer in my jacket pocket. Nothing like .22 up close and in somebody's face, I hear .22 does nasty things inside a skull. lol


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## dannydefense

specknowsbest said:


> Given that I've walked, carried and worn a significantly larger amount of gear before and walking miles with it, having three firearms for a combined weight of maybe 10lbs really isn't that big of a deal to me. lol


Then you also understand how big of a difference one pound can make vs one more mile. If my mobility is key to my survival, which it probably will be if I'm displaced from our first line of defense, then I'm dropping everything but what's essential. I'd love to carry a bolt action, magazine fed semi-auto and shotgun, but where does it end? It's actually an amazingly perfect argument for not going it alone, I think; different weapons combined with different skills will exponentially increase your chance of survival.

Sorry for digressing. I vote .45 for the OP


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## ZBoater

budgetprepp-n said:


> I'm looking to buy a side arm. Not for concealment but rather a side arm for after TSHTF
> I guess I'm sort of old school I like the 1911s. But I can't decide between a 45 or 9mm
> What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?


I would imagine that the SHTF scenario might have a bearing. I would not want to depend on finding ammo somewhere. If concealment is not a concern, I'd lean towards a side arm with a high capacity magazine, like 17 rounds 9mm. Without getting into the caliber debate, shot placement trumps caliber, and I'm not a good shot. So I need more rounds to make up for my average marksman skills.

So if I could only have one gun given the original question, I'd choose a Beretta 92FS-A1 (or M9-A1, same gun) and as many 17 round magazines as I could carry. It is unlikely I'll be able to find spare magazines from a military unit, but a lot more likely than any other side arm. It's a proven and stable 9mm platform that is easy to shoot which helps improve my chances of hitting what I'm aiming at. Easy to disassemble and clean. Can be had for around $600. That would be my choice.


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## specknowsbest

dannydefense said:


> Then you also understand how big of a difference one pound can make vs one more mile. If my mobility is key to my survival, which it probably will be if I'm displaced from our first line of defense, then I'm dropping everything but what's essential. I'd love to carry a bolt action, magazine fed semi-auto and shotgun, but where does it end? It's actually an amazingly perfect argument for not going it alone, I think; different weapons combined with different skills will exponentially increase your chance of survival.
> 
> Sorry for digressing. I vote .45 for the OP


Well yeah, but there's a difference between carrying three long guns vs one long gun and two hand guns, like massive weight difference and ease of manueverability. While I agree that every pound also matters, I say that, to me personally, one or two extra pounds after 50lbs doesn't really matter, since I can't personally tell the difference or move any slower than normally (unless you're comparing 50lbs to 100lbs, because there's an obvious difference).


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## Smokin04

One thing I know for sure...if SHTF (for real), all pistols would be back ups. I'd have my AR and shotty in active service.


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