# Pachamama idols thrown Into the Tiber.



## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Yes! It's about time somebody over there sent her down river. Thank you!!! Good riddance.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A little of the back story. This is pagan worship. Now somebody go get that tree. Pull it out!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Garabandal Isn't an approved apparition. I don't know what to make of it, but something was going on there whether supernatural or preternatural, I don't know. I've seen footage of little girls walking fast, backwards while looking straight up in the air. Sorry to say I can't find that particularly freaky one on youtube anymore. Maybe it was taken down but there are others online of the girls in ecstasy.
https://returntotradition.org/garabandal-predicted-synod-before-the-warning/


> "During the apparitions, the Virgin told Conchita that before the future events occur, a Synod will take place, an important Synod. Then Conchita told the story to her aunt. The aunt asked her: "Do you refer to [a] Council?" Because that was the time of the Second Vatican Council. Conchita told her aunt, "No, the Virgin didn't say Council, she said Synod, and I think Synod is a small council."
> 
> "It is impossible for a twelve year old girl without any knowledge and culture to talk about a Synod that didn't exist and we didn't know at that time, and in addition she defined the Synod as a "small council."


A little girl in a backwater place in Spain in the early 60's wouldn't have known about a Synod that's for sure.



> The Amazonian Synod indeed is a warning to the Church when we consider its pagan agenda and how it bows to the idol of "Mother earth." Synodal architects even advocate that we draw from indigenous "ancestral wisdom," which is occult language that we associate with pagan cultures like the Mayans and Aztecs who murdered their children in infanticide, just as infanticide is now practiced in the Amazon with the approval with some bishops there.
> 
> Among the graphics used to publicize the Synod is a poster of a topless indigenous woman breast-feeding a weasel to suggest that everything in creation is "interconnected" and that we are "related" to the animals.


The future events are supposed to be some kind of warning.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> A little of the back story. This is pagan worship.


Well, who really knows what God is thinking? As an SDA, I worship on the correct day, and let all the heathens worship on Sunday. I cast no stones, I just pray for them, and perhaps in this modern age of equality, we can get a nice looking lady Pope.

It could be worse, when I was a little boy the first thing on TV in the morning was Fulton J. Sheen. No cartoons, just letting all the 5 year old children know they were now properly scared of hell.

It is said that Jesus called two of his apostles "the sons of thunder." Frankly, I'm glad that two bikers found their Savior. I found Him, too.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

So you didn't like the Archbishop? He was hardly fire and brimstone, though. I must disagree there. Theatrical, yes. That he was. But a great bishop. Please God send more like him.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> So you didn't like the Archbishop? He was hardly fire and brimstone, though. I must disagree there. Theatrical, yes. That he was. But a great bishop. Please God send more like him.


Annie, I was just five years old, I wasn't even going to kindergarten. In fact, I just had joined The Milwaukee's Children's Bundt. Lots of pork chops and German Reich songs.

That time of the day is for cartoons, not Bela Lugosi's stand in, scaring little kids in Howdy Doody gingham shirts and little cowboy boots. No wonder some kids never take a good look at religion. We have been there, done that, talked to Buffalo Bob...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Jesus does not call us to be Catholics. Or Baptists. Or Pentecostals. Or Presbyterians.

He calls us to be born again.

John 3:1-21


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Jesus does not call us to be Catholics. Or Baptists. Or Pentecostals. Or Presbyterians.
> 
> He calls us to be born again.
> 
> John 3:1-21


Yeah but we wouldn't have known that except for the Church. Because Our Lord didn't make the bible fall out of the sky like manna in the desert. He had and still has helpers for that.

18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."&#8230;


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

@The Tourist First thing in the morning before the cartoons here was the salute to the flag and then the US Farm Report. I wanted to be a farmer's wife. Thought it would've been grand.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, Annie, when I both retired and started my own company I began to stay closer to home and "sleep with the sun." Clocks and phones ringing became less and less of my lexicon. While I do not live in a farm area, for a guy like me suburbia is the next best thing.

Fresh from college I did what boomers did at that time--you went to find a job and found the waiting area at companies usually had 40 other boomers applying for the same job--and wearing the same suits.

I thought that "starting your own business" at my tender age was tantamount to starving. Most of the men I knew that had their own companies did so in their mid-forties after learn the scope of business by working for other people. I did pretty much the same.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Pokemama's been pulled out of the Tiber and is in police custody. Lots of Catholics are getting PO'ed. If Francis brings her to the closing ceremonies it could get ugly. We'll have to wait and see.






OL Fatima, pray for us.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Well, who really knows what God is thinking? As an SDA, I worship on the correct day, and let all the heathens worship on Sunday. I cast no stones, I just pray for them, and perhaps in this modern age of equality, we can get a nice looking lady Pope.
> 
> It could be worse, when I was a little boy the first thing on TV in the morning was Fulton J. Sheen. No cartoons, just letting all the 5 year old children know they were now properly scared of hell.
> 
> It is said that Jesus called two of his apostles "the sons of thunder." Frankly, I'm glad that two bikers found their Savior. I found Him, too.


Glad to bump into a SDA practitoner. Had an old chum whos folks was in it heavy and still have one of yalls Veggie cook books around here. Have you ever heard of Ellen G. White? She is supposed to have been like a Pope to that denomination and or sorta like a Prophetess to the Mormons..cept they only have male Prophets I think. Tell us about it when you get time. Thanks. Fournd this while we were waiting. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_G._White


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## SGG (Nov 25, 2015)

The person that threw them in the River should have destroyed them


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Note to pope. It is not mother earth it is earth and God created it. "The act was celebrated by conservative Catholics who deemed the statues pagan idols." At least some get it. 
Just more evidence that 500 years ago Martian Luther was right.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Smitty901 said:


> Note to pope. It is not mother earth it is earth and God created it. "The act was celebrated by conservative Catholics who deemed the statues pagan idols." At least some get it.
> Just more evidence that 500 years ago Martian Luther was right.


Wouldn't go so far as to claim Luther was right..but would say he was sure right on some issues most especially worshiping idols. The Reform Churches...still have a pretty kinky theology in spite of his best efforts the Catholic roots still run deep in Lutherans..Methodists..Presbyterians..Episcopalians etc. The Boy shoulda kept on reforming till he got it right..lol.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Thinking the catholic Church deserves credit for the bible is like giving Moses credit for manna

We do not praise the hebrews for writing it (one greek)

or the germans for finally mass producing it

who stopped it from being mass produced and distributed????


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Thinking the catholic Church deserves credit for the bible is like giving Moses credit for manna
> 
> We do not praise the hebrews for writing it (one greek)
> 
> ...


Good point. Who burned poor old William Tyndale at the stake?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

SGG said:


> The person that threw them in the River should have destroyed them


I agree. It was gratifying to see them whacked, but at the time I was thinking they should've burned them and buried the ashes. I've heard an exorcist say that sometimes people do dumb things with cursed items. He said once someone burned an item then flushed it down the toilet. They had trouble with the plumbing for months after.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> Note to pope. It is not mother earth it is earth and God created it. "The act was celebrated by conservative Catholics who deemed the statues pagan idols." At least some get it.
> Just more evidence that 500 years ago Martian Luther was right.


There's only one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church outside of which there is no salvation. That's defined doctrine. God gives every soul all the graces they need to be saved. That's also doctrine.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Whatever your thoughts, keep your ear to the ground. It might could get ugly as they wrap this thing (synod) up.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> There's only one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church outside of which there is no salvation. That's defined doctrine. .


might be doctrine but it isn't scripture.

Jesus defined what was required for salvation... and then warned against adding to his word

Although I do like when Catholics tell and truth and admit that all non Catholics are going to burn in hell for eternity...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> might be doctrine but it isn't scripture.
> 
> Jesus defined what was required for salvation... and then warned against adding to his word
> 
> Although I do like when Catholics tell and truth and admit that all non Catholics are going to burn in hell for eternity...


I'm not going to water things down. I can't. 
He who hears you, hears me; and he who rejects you rejects me; and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me. (Luke 10:16)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6)
Baltimore Catechism No. 2: Confraternity of Christian Doctrine 1941
167. What do we mean when we say, "Outside the Church there is no salvation?"
When we say, "Outside the Church there is no salvation," we mean that Christ made the Catholic Church a necessary means of salvation and commanded all to enter it, so that a person must be connected with the Church in some way to be saved.

168. How can persons who are not members of the Catholic Church be saved?
Persons who are not members of the Catholic Church can be saved if, through no fault of their own, they do not know that the Catholic Church is the true Church, but they love God and try to do His will, for in this way they are connected with the Church by desire.

Pray on it. That's all I'll say.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> I'm not going to water things down. I can't.
> He who hears you, hears me; and he who rejects you rejects me; and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me. (Luke 10:16)
> 
> Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6)
> ...


Indeed you are not watering things down.. you are just misquoting, misunderstanding, and misapplying scripture!!!

You may be a wonderful loving person... your church on the other hand is an abomination and a whore that has lost its way and is leading people into idol worship.. and are nothing but a giant cult

There may not be any perfect sect, group, denomination... but there are lots that are more scriptural sound then the papist cult

Love you, strongly disagree with your church's teachings

whenever I think of the Roman Catholics.. I think 
Revelation 18:4 ► Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie, I is/was a Catholic, and as you know I was going to DeSales Preparatory Seminary just before I discovered girls and motorcycles.

I pray to the one and only God. And yes, you can go from being a religious Roman student, to a biker, to a Seven Day Adventist and still pray to this self-same God. And oddly, despite my many differing alliances and strange vocal statements, this God always seems to know it's "me."

I laughed the first time I heard a man of religion refer to this Entity as "an awesome God." I felt that 'awesome' is a crappy word to describe the Being that made everything out of nothing.

BTW, for you religious nuts, be sure you are polite and respectful when you first walk through The Pearly Gates. A few years ago, while a fellow club member and I were stopped by the side of the road for a break, we were passed by the most spooky and dangerous outlaw bikers I had ever seen--and I was one just like them!

Then I saw their colors! They were a former group of outlaws, to be sure, but now they had formed a religious MC. You know them as, "The CMA National."

So here's my take of this. Most hypocrites believe that only the carefully scrubbed and dutifully attired who walk into a respected church will see our God. If you remember your Bible passages, a bunch of Pharisees rebuked our Lord for associating with the bizarre 12 that He had chosen.

God loves bikers, too. And like those 12, most of us eat without washing our hands...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I love you guys. Some day Jesus is going to fix this mess. With a pope this bad, that day can't be too far away.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> I love you guys. Some day Jesus is going to fix this mess. With a pope this bad, that day can't be too far away.


This is the part I struggle with. I'm not really that well-versed in the histories of the Bible--especially the popes.

For example, even at a modest 200 yards, with a perfect scope and a solid rest, I cannot tell Benedict XVI, John Paul II, John Paul I, Paul VI, and/or John XXIII apart.

Now we must flip to "Revelation," yeah guys, the word is correctly written in the singular. I find miscreants riding beasts, the "remnant" searching the sky, all Hell has been loosed and we must calmly search the clouds for our Redeemer. I'm more of a "hands on" sinner.

I have no problem with Christ being the one to defeat Lucifer at the end of Linear Time. I'd just like to hold the beast down for The Son of God, I have my own issues to deal with...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

@Maine-Marine they're gonna have another Sin-nod in May.

AMAZON: Catholic World Rejects Globalist Synod (#IamCatholicMaccabees)





There's two different Catholic Churches going on right now.One is the true Church, one is the NWO. Protestantism has the NWO agenda going on, too. I'm sure you know that. I see the rainbow flags on more churches in my area than not. Now it's in Rome, too. Actually it's been there visibly since the 1960's slowly coming to full bloom.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie, there's a very easy way to resolve this. I suggest (over a nice dinner) you tell your husband that you are "off to a nunnery."

You tell the local suffragan bishop that you want to serve Our Lord at the roughest, toughest, most antiquated church, accompanied by priests who give like seven Rosaries for just contemplating masturbation.

I'll trim your hair so your head with fit any veil of shame on the planet. Trust me, I know how to sharpen scissors.

The time has come girl, the Beast is upon us. It's time to shun fun, and not be miserly with misery...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, there's a very easy way to resolve this. I suggest (over a nice dinner) you tell your husband that you are "off to a nunnery."
> 
> You tell the local suffragan bishop that you want to serve Our Lord at the roughest, toughest, most antiquated church, accompanied by priests who give like seven Rosaries for just contemplating masturbation.
> 
> ...


The _nunnery?????_ Surely you jest. :vs_no_no_no:
https://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/get-thee-nunn-ry


> Specialists in Shakespeare's bawdy language are fond of noting that "nunnery" was common Elizabethan slang for "brothel," and that therefore Hamlet's command is ironic and even more despairing than it seems. The pun would accord with the paradoxical nature of the prince's speech, but there is little evidence elsewhere in the scene that Hamlet intends a double entendre.


If you mean the convent, no thanks. It's not my vocation. I got my hands full right here where I am.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> I got my hands full right here where I am.


Well, so do I. My hands are just filled with knives. You say tomahto, I say tomato.

BTW, I just got an A.G. Russell 'Sunfish' that got so toasty sharp it scared even me...!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Devils hate Latin. Holy Apostles, ora pro nobis. Pray for us.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Annie said:


> Devils hate Latin. Holy Apostles, ora pro nobis. Pray for us.


I don't know who those guys are, but that's not an American helmet.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I don't know who those guys are, but that's not an American helmet.


Nor do I. I love what he has in his hand; the crucifix he's kissing.

I am told that my grandfather read the Gospels in foxhole during WWI. He was shot at and he almost died. His heart and breathing had stopped.This was before CPR. The medics got him in the tent. Do you know how they got his heart going? I am told they took this big 6' something guy by the ankles and swung him 'round like centrifugal force (?) I think. He spent the rest of his life with shrapnel in his leg. He went on to have a family and become a lawyer.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I don't know who those guys are, but that's not an American helmet.


I blew up the image.. they are Russian's ..looks like WWII


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Devils hate Latin. Holy Apostles, ora pro nobis. Pray for us.
> 
> Satan speaks Latin, so do demons
> 
> ...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> So here's my take of this. Most hypocrites believe that only the carefully scrubbed and dutifully attired who walk into a respected church will see our God. If you remember your Bible passages, a bunch of Pharisees rebuked our Lord for associating with the bizarre 12 that He had chosen.
> 
> God loves bikers, too. And like those 12, most of us eat without washing our hands...


Jesus associated with prostitutes, tax collectors and outcasts.
By the time He was done with them they were no longer prostitutes, tax collectors, or outcasts.

As far as non-Catholics not going to heaven, that is merely the opinion of man.
Jesus was very clear on the matter: "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I say unto thee, Ye must be born again."
John 3:3-7 KJV

Jesus said this before there was a Catholic church. And He did not mention any denomination.
He said you must be born again, not you must be Catholic. Or Baptist. Or Pentecostal.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Jesus associated with prostitutes, tax collectors and outcasts.
> *By the time He was done with them they were no longer prostitutes, tax collectors, or outcasts.
> *
> As far as non-Catholics not going to heaven, that is merely the opinion of man.
> ...


Sorry had to bold a few things for you

*By the time He was done with them they were no longer prostitutes, tax collectors, or outcasts.
*

many people forget this.. they think that Jesus hung out with these folks and nothing changed...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> > Devils hate Latin. Holy Apostles, ora pro nobis. Pray for us.
> ...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Maine-Marine said:
> 
> 
> > Hebrew, Greek and Latin are the languages nailed to the Holy Cross which was drenched in His Blood.
> ...


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, there might be good news and bad news.

Yesterday I went out to check the creek behind my home to make sure the city was keeping it open and devoid of trash and debris. I happened to see something both dull but showing some sunlight, and my first thought was that some kid lost a toy.

Imagine my surprise when I found out it was one of the Pachamama Idols! This one has two streaks on each cheek, and it looks like some idiot threw it in a river.

The guys at Ford Metro are making me a pedestal that fits on the hood of my F-150. The one I have has two streaks on each cheek. I hear these idols are good luck, and if you drive in Madison you'll know you need all you can get! I need a 'good luck' hood ornament.

My wife calls him "Dent-On." I asked her why and she told me, duh, there's a dent on it. Nobody tell Denton...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Want to impress me, get rid off all the Mary Statues.. and Stop saying HAIL Mary


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Jesus associated with prostitutes, tax collectors and outcasts.
> By the time He was done with them they were no longer prostitutes, tax collectors, or outcasts.
> 
> As far as non-Catholics not going to heaven, that is merely the opinion of man.
> ...


Great narrative. Being born again means different things to different folks. Protestants tend to believe being Born again means a deeply Spirtiual experience when the Holy Spirt moves in to stay. Catholics think it happens when the priest sprinkles them with water. Its called Baptismal Regeneraton by the Fundy Baptists. Bad old heresy that crept into the early church. Church of Christ believes in Baptismal Regeneration too....and can quote Scripture to back it up all day long..lol..but they at least believe in dunking adult believers..or mature teen agers maybe. They sure dont dunk babies.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Want to impress me, get rid off all the Mary Statues.. and Stop saying HAIL Mary


They cant understand the part of the Bible that says, "Their is only one mediator between God and man...the Christ Jesus." Or maybe they tune it out someway or another.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Maine-Marine said:


> Want to impress me, get rid off all the Mary Statues.. and Stop saying HAIL Mary


Well, if you get rid of the Vietnamese (that slipped into my country) so that random dogs no longer have to fear a rotating spit, I'll tell the Catholics to worship in private and simply evangelize in public.

That, and if you can convince the never-Trump crowd that walking anywhere in the USA is safer that being in a pillbox in the middle-east...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Here's the young man who threw Pachamama into the Tiber. He's a hero.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Want to impress me, get rid off all the Mary Statues.. and Stop saying HAIL Mary


Sorry, I'm not interested. You could sooner rip my heart out.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Want to impress me, get rid off all the Mary Statues.. and Stop saying HAIL Mary


Sorry, I'm not interested. You could sooner rip my heart out.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Gospel According to St Luke 1: [28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

[42] And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Gospel According to St Luke 1: [28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
> 
> [42] And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.


Those were the words of angels... Jesus said those that obeyed his words are MORE blessed then his mother

Luk 11:27* And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.*
Luk 11:28* But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.*

Even back then when they were try to lift mary up as an object of worship... Jesus made it clear... his followers were MORE blessed

but... I guess some people need to have Jesus PLUS something else


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Those were the words of angels... Jesus said those that obeyed his words are MORE blessed then his mother
> 
> Luk 11:27* And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.*
> Luk 11:28* But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.*
> ...


No, rather He was talking about her the whole time. She was more blessed because she listened to Him. Do you really think He was dishonoring His mother here? The one with whom He spent 30 years of His hidden life on earth?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

> but... I guess some people need to have Jesus PLUS something else


Does the fact that we love her lessen our love for God. In no way! 
"And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord."
Seeing Jesus through Mary's eyes helps us to love Him even more. She is so sweet. She is like a magnifying glass for Jesus.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> No, rather He was talking about her the whole time. She was more blessed because she listened to Him. Do you really think He was dishonoring His mother here? The one with whom He spent 30 years of His hidden life on earth?


so you believe that Jesus was calling Mary "THEY"

Luk 11:28* But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.*

and saying that his followers are more blessed is not dishonoring to Mary.. unless you think she is some form of co-redeemer worth of worship

Jesus said his followers would do greater things then he did.. he was not dishonoring himself

It is not dishonoring at all to point out the bible shows Mary and Joseph had children, or that Mary was not sure Jesus was God, or that Jesus says "Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

so we are equal to.. and in fact MORE blessed...

But you will get a chance to meet Mary some day (I hope).. although I hope you are more excited about meeting Jesus..or you have issues


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

And, this ends this episode of As Sectarian Arguments Spin.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Annie said:


> Does the fact that we love her lessen our love for God. In no way!
> "And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord."
> Seeing Jesus through Mary's eyes helps us to love Him even more. She is so sweet. She is like a magnifying glass for Jesus.


Good point. Was listening to an old Fundy Baptist preacher rambling one day. He say "You know Catholics spend a lot of time holding The Virgin Mary up..and we spend a lot of time trying to tear her down." Think the morale of the tale was..she should probably get plugged in somewhere between the two extremes. Know the Bible says she is Blessed more than all other Ladies..so thats pretty special right there. Prob wouldnt nag at her Hubby like most ladies tend to do. lol.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> Good point. Was listening to an old Fundy Baptist preacher rambling one day. He say "You know Catholics spend a lot ot time holding The Virgin Mary up..and we spend a lot of time trying to tear her down.


nice story but I have never heard any preacher put Mary down... the objection is how the catholics show her undo adoration not against Mary herself. 
Ever notice when people tried to show angels or even some saints and prophets adoration they were rebuked



bigwheel said:


> Think the morale of the tale was..she should probably get plugged in somewhere between the two extremes.


we would call that lukewarm. Either Mary should be a part of our church worship and adoration or she should not be.

lets remember Jesus was around before he was born via Mary. Jesus created everything.. Jesus even created Mary..just has he created you and I



bigwheel said:


> Know the Bible says she is Blessed more than all other Ladies..so thats pretty special right there.


Elizabeth said that yes...

What did Jesus say about Mary... ???? good study...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

We don't worship her. She isn't God. We honor her. She's prefigured all throughout the old testament. Queen mother, arc of the covenant, Deborah, Judith. You folks know that better than I, I think. She's the new Eve and the most beautiful creature God ever created. She gave Jesus His flesh 100% He took her DNA; everything.

So don't anybody knock His mama--not saying anyone here is, but I know those tuff Polish priests get highly unpleasant when that occurs.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Hmmm...hope nobody is into the Ghia worship around here. It seems to make God the Father real mad when folks pay homeage to the Queen of Heaven. 
https://www.gotquestions.org/Queen-of-Heaven.html


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Hmmm...hope nobody is into the Ghia worship around here. It seems to make God the Father real mad when folks pay homeage to the Queen of Heaven.
> https://www.gotquestions.org/Queen-of-Heaven.html


Queen mother in the OT was a real thing, Bigwheel....

I never could understand the proverbial bee in the Protestant bonnet over the sweet Mother of Jesus. If there's any bone of contention, the bigger bone to pick is over the Holy Eucharist. Because we don't worship Mary, but we do worship the True Presence in the Most Blessed Sacrament.

We _worship_ the Holy Eucharist.

But it's always Mary they come after... What's with that?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> Queen mother in the OT was a real thing, Bigwheel....
> 
> I never could understand the proverbial bee in the Protestant bonnet over the sweet Mother of Jesus. If there's any bone of contention, the bigger bone to pick is over the Holy Eucharist. Because we don't worship Mary, but we do worship the True Presence in the Most Blessed Sacrament.
> 
> ...


I think I might be able to help with some of the confusion, Dear.

Protestants believe that Catholics pray to Mary as well as other dead people. You know that such a thing is abominable, but this is what we have all been told.

I've never been in a Catholic church but I've heard that there are graven images of our dead brothers and sisters. If this be the case, you and I know that we have been told by God not to do this.

We protestants have also been told that Catholics are supposed to confess their sins to a priest who will then tell them to say so many "Hail Marys" (Hail Mary? That in itself is an abomination) in order to be forgiven. I think we get this from Hollyweird movies and we both know Hollyweird worships Satan. What we do know is that the veil was torn upon Jesus' death, and we have authority to pray straight to God in Jesus' name as He died for us and paid the price for our wretched sins.

Here's what I know, and I know this because of my father. Wake me up in the middle of the night and say to me, "Quick, Denton! What's your clearest memory of your father!" My answer will be, "Studying the Bible!" My father was a deacon in our church for years, until his age and health caused him to step down.
Many years ago, I asked my father about the spiritual safety of Catholics. His response was that *Catholics believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died so that we might be saved.*

Now, I will admonish you on this point. If you judge me as someone who is not saved because I am in no way attached to the Catholic church, you will be judged as you judge me. For your own good, do not do that. If Catholic teaching tells you this as you have suggested, it is wrong and is leading you into a ditch. Remember the ditch? If a blind man leads you into the ditch, you are still in the ditch.

I hope you can clarify our issues. It'd sure help us understand. I, for one, will admit that my understanding of Catholicism is based upon hearsay and we know what that is worth.

Edit to add: Dear Annie. We Protestants don't judge you. We worry about you. You are such a dear lady and a strong lady. @rice paddy daddy has made a point to show how courageous Catholics have sacrificed all for others during times of war. May I remind you of JFK, who I firmly believe was murdered because he had an epiphany and was going to put the nation back on the right fiscal path. Catholics are good people. Nevermind the La Cosa Nostra.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Oooh, there's a lot to respond to. I don't claim to be a theologian, just a simple woman. But I'll just do the best I can with what I've got. And these days with the internet, that's a bit easier.



Denton said:


> I think I might be able to help with some of the confusion, Dear.





> Protestants believe that Catholics pray to Mary as well as other dead people. You know that such a thing is abominable, but this is what we have all been told.
> 
> I've never been in a Catholic church but I've heard that there are graven images of our dead brothers and sisters. If this be the case, you and I know that we have been told by God not to do this.


Saints in heaven aren't dead. They're alive in Christ. More alive than you and I. If someone goes to hell, that's the second death. They are spiritually dead although their souls are eternal. We don't pray to them. That would indeed be a big sin. But we do pray to saints in heaven and we pray for souls in purgatory. Part of the bible which Martin Luther kicked out says,

[45] "With godliness": Judas hoped that these men who died fighting for the cause of God and religion, might find mercy: either because they might be excused from mortal sin by ignorance; or might have repented of their sin, at least at their death.

[46] It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

Finally, the statues and paintings are not graven images. That would be a sin. Rather we see them as representations of loved ones. Don't you keep pictures of loved ones around? It's like that.



> We protestants have also been told that Catholics are supposed to confess their sins to a priest who will then tell them to say so many "Hail Marys" (Hail Mary? That in itself is an abomination) in order to be forgiven. I think we get this from Hollyweird movies and we both know Hollyweird worships Satan. What we do know is that the veil was torn upon Jesus' death, and we have authority to pray straight to God in Jesus' name as He died for us and paid the price for our wretched sins.


Hail Mary is biblical. It's in the bible.

Luke 1: [26] And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, [27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. [28] And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [29] Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. [30] And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Our Lord instituted the sacrament of Confession:

John 20: [21] He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

And yes, we can go straight to Jesus. We can also ask others to pray for us. You guys do that too, don't you? Don't Protestants ask other Christians to pray for them?



> Here's what I know, and I know this because of my father. Wake me up in the middle of the night and say to me, "Quick, Denton! What's your clearest memory of your father!" My answer will be, "Studying the Bible!" My father was a deacon in our church for years, until his age and health caused him to step down.
> Many years ago, I asked my father about the spiritual safety of Catholics. His response was that *Catholics believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died so that we might be saved.*


 God bless your father, he raised a good man.
Yes, we do believe Jesus is Lord, Second person of the Blessed Trinity, just like you.



> Now, I will admonish you on this point. If you judge me as someone who is not saved because I am in no way attached to the Catholic church, you will be judged as you judge me. For your own good, do not do that. If Catholic teaching tells you this as you have suggested, it is wrong and is leading you into a ditch. Remember the ditch? If a blind man leads you into the ditch, you are still in the ditch.


First off, no one this side of heaven is saved. We're being saved, hopefully. But it's not over until we leave this world for the next.



> I hope you can clarify our issues. It'd sure help us understand. I, for one, will admit that my understanding of Catholicism is based upon hearsay and we know what that is worth.
> 
> Edit to add: Dear Annie. We Protestants don't judge you. We worry about you. You are such a dear lady and a strong lady. @rice paddy daddy has made a point to show how courageous Catholics have sacrificed all for others during times of war. May I remind you of JFK, who I firmly believe was murdered because he had an epiphany and was going to put the nation back on the right fiscal path. Catholics are good people. Nevermind the La Cosa Nostra.


You know I love you guys. But I'm not going to lie or B.S. just to be liked or keep the peace. That would be dishonest. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (outside the Church there is no salvation) is a defined doctrine of the Catholic Church. Big time. I've put a link to what the Church fathers had to say about that. It's also doctrine that God gives each soul all the graces they need to be saved. So what about somebody who lives a good life and does the best they can with what they've got?

"Their inculpable (invincible) ignorance will not save them; but if they fear God and live up to their conscience, God, in his infinite mercy, will furnish them with the necessary means of salvation, even so as to send, if needed, an angel to instruct them in the Catholic faith, rather than let them perish through inculpable ignorance." (St. Thomas Aquinas.)

In my humble opinion, that's a lot easier to understand than what I've been told the Protestants believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but do you guys believe God would send some person to hell even though they've never heard the name of Jesus Christ? That seems unjust and we know God is Just and Merciful.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> Oooh, there's a lot to respond to. I don't claim to be a theologian, just a simple woman. But I'll just do the best I can with what I've got. And these days with the internet, that's a bit easier.
> 
> Saints in heaven aren't dead. They're alive in Christ. More alive than you and I. If someone goes to hell, that's the second death. They are spiritually dead although their souls are eternal. We don't pray to them. That would indeed be a big sin. But we do pray to saints in heaven and we pray for souls in purgatory. Part of the bible which Martin Luther kicked out says,
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification, Annie!

Yes, we do pray for one another, but we are alive. We certainly do not pray to those who have passed, or as Paul suggested, asleep.

As far as Aquinas' assertion that the Catholic church is the only way to be saved, I'll remind you of the ditch and to not let a blind man take you there. Jesus is the way and not the Catholic church or any other church. I have never read any of his writing in the KJV, so please forgive me for not knowing him.

Yes, I have pictures of family members as well as pictures of events, vacations, etc. They aren't "graven" images. I don't bow down to them. I have no statues to which I bow or kiss the toes or pray to those people they represent. Exodus 20:4-5 is very clear: 
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me"

You asked a very good question! Do we believe that those who haven't heard the Good News goes to Hell? I've never read anywhere in the Bible that clearly addresses that question, though some have tried to link a couple verses together to come to some conclusion. I do know that God is fair, just and loving and I know He has all the answers. I can rest easy in that knowledge and I don't have to add anything to the Bible to make myself feel better about God. I know that I am just a man and He is the Almighty.

Thanks for the assist, Annie! You've helped me understand Catholicism and I appreciate it.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Denton said:


> Thanks for the clarification, Annie!


You're welcome. 


> Yes, we do pray for one another, but we are alive. We certainly do not pray to those who have passed, or as Paul suggested, asleep.


But do you believe those who have passed on are actually asleep? You do believe it's more of a figure of speech Paul was using, right? They're alive (awake) in heaven, correct?



> As far as Aquinas' assertion that the Catholic church is the only way to be saved, I'll remind you of the ditch and to not let a blind man take you there. Jesus is the way and not the Catholic church or any other church. I have never read any of his writing in the KJV, so please forgive me for not knowing him.


Well, I believe Jesus is the way and He gave us the Church. One Church.


> Yes, I have pictures of family members as well as pictures of events, vacations, etc. They aren't "graven" images. I don't bow down to them. I have no statues to which I bow or kiss the toes or pray to those people they represent. Exodus 20:4-5 is very clear:
> "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
> Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me"


We don't worship statues. That's a misunderstanding. We like art. We use it to life our minds and hearts to God, and to give Him glory. You Protestants use beautiful music to praise God, and to life your minds and hearts to God much the same way. We're physical beings. There's nothing wrong with using the senses in that sort of way



> You asked a very good question! Do we believe that those who haven't heard the Good News goes to Hell? I've never read anywhere in the Bible that clearly addresses that question, though some have tried to link a couple verses together to come to some conclusion.


Well, okay. I didn't know that. I thought you guys believed that all you have to do is confess Jesus as Lord of your life and you go to heaven. Faith alone, sola fide, no?



> I do know that God is fair, just and loving and I know He has all the answers. I can rest easy in that knowledge and I don't have to add anything to the Bible to make myself feel better about God.


Everything in the bible is true 100%, but the bible doesn't have all the answers.



> I know that I am just a man and He is the Almighty.


Amen.



> Thanks for the assist, Annie! You've helped me understand Catholicism and I appreciate it.


You're welcome.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> You're welcome.
> But do you believe those who have passed on are actually asleep? You do believe it's more of a figure of speech Paul was using, right? They're alive (awake) in heaven, correct?
> 
> Well, I believe Jesus is the way and He gave us the Church. One Church.
> ...


What Paul said was a "figure of speech?"

When Jesus comes back in the clouds, shouts and those who are dead in Jesus busts out of their graves and are transformed into their Heavenly bodies and are then go to Heaven to take part in the Marriage Supper, does Jesus first tell everyone to get back into their graves so that they can then go back? 
You can see how what Paul stated can be seen more than a figure of speech.

Jesus made it clear that no one goes to the Father but through Him. He didn't say the way was by a man-made sect that would come along, later. That is a man-made notion.

Speaking of man-made notion, the notion that man is going to add to what the Bible says is folly, at best and a very bad sin at worst. It reminds me of when I was teaching an Israeli woman how to speak English. During one conversation, she was telling me about Judaism and how they did things. At one point, I pointed out that they were adding to the TaNak (Basically, the Old Testament. She responded by saying, "Ah, but we have executive privilege!" I then said, "_Executive privilege_? You think you are gods? God is the executive and not humans!" Yeah, that went over like a lead balloon. :vs_laugh:

There is no comparison between singing songs of praise to God. As a matter of fact, we are to make a "joyful noise" which is good for people like me who will never be called a singer. On the other hand, there is no rationalizing creating graven images and kissing their feet which, apparently _does_ happen:
https://www.heatheronhertravels.com/roman-rituals-kiss-st-peters-toe-at-the-vatican/

Uh-oh! I'm about to get clock-bit. Got to go to work. Take care, Dear!


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Denton said:


> What Paul said was a "figure of speech?"


 I know that the saints are alive in heaven. That's doctrine



> When Jesus comes back in the clouds, shouts and those who are dead in Jesus busts out of their graves and are transformed into their Heavenly bodies and are then go to Heaven to take part in the Marriage Supper, does Jesus first tell everyone to get back into their graves so that they can then go back?
> You can see how what Paul stated can be seen more than a figure of speech.


No, that's the final judgement. There's the particular and then the final judgment. There's two of them. Two judgments that will take place.



> Jesus made it clear that no one goes to the Father but through Him.


Amen.



> He didn't say the way was by a man-made sect that would come along, later. That is a man-made notion.


 He instituted a Church, not a sect.



> Speaking of man-made notion, the notion that man is going to add to what the Bible says is folly, at best and a very bad sin at worst. It reminds me of when I was teaching an Israeli woman how to speak English. During one conversation, she was telling me about Judaism and how they did things. At one point, I pointed out that they were adding to the TaNak (Basically, the Old Testament. She responded by saying, "Ah, but we have executive privilege!" I then said, "_Executive privilege_? You think you are gods? God is the executive and not humans!" Yeah, that went over like a lead balloon. :vs_laugh:


No, Christ has opened the gates of heaven for all. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying.



> There is no comparison between singing songs of praise to God. As a matter of fact, we are to make a "joyful noise" which is good for people like me who will never be called a singer. On the other hand, there is no rationalizing creating graven images and kissing their feet which, apparently _does_ happen:
> https://www.heatheronhertravels.com/roman-rituals-kiss-st-peters-toe-at-the-vatican/


 That is your opinion. Art can give glory to God, too. I would kiss a crucifix any day of the week, in fact I do. It is a sign of love. I'd kiss a bishop's ring or my mother-in-law for the same reason. Does that mean granny is an idol?



> Uh-oh! I'm about to get clock-bit. Got to go to work. Take care, Dear!


 God bless.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Denton said:


> I think I might be able to help with some of the confusion, Dear.
> 
> Protestants believe that Catholics pray to Mary as well as other dead people. You know that such a thing is abominable, but this is what we have all been told.
> 
> ...


Amen Brother. Well said. Praying to dead folks is too close to necromancy for me to try it...but am firmly convinced the Gospel of Chist is highly durable...surely tough enough to offset most of the man made garbage various denominations try to heap on it.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

> I know that the saints are alive in heaven. That's doctrine


See, I'm not good with that word, "doctrine."
There is no figure of speech in what Paul said. That's a nice way of saying you disagree with what he said.



> No, that's the final judgement. There's the particular and then the final judgment. There's two of them. Two judgments that will take place.


Sorry, but you are way off. This is before final judgment. It's before He comes back with the saints at the end of the Tribulation.



> He instituted a Church, not a sect.


From what you said, I am assuming you mean the Catholic Church. Nope. That is Catholic "doctrine" and it isn't Biblical. That is a creation of man.



> No, Christ has opened the gates of heaven for all. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying.


Explain what you mean, please.



> That is your opinion. Art can give glory to God, too. I would kiss a crucifix any day of the week, in fact I do. It is a sign of love. I'd kiss a bishop's ring or my mother-in-law for the same reason. Does that mean granny is an idol?


No, it isn't my opinion.
Singing praises to Him is pleasing to Him. That is Biblical. Creating graven images, bowing or kneeling to them is clearly and unequivocally a sin, according to the Bible. I don't care what any friar, priest or pope has ever said or wrote. This should be obvious. You should know it is wrong when you attempt to compare it to singing praise to God. Neither Peter or MAry, for example, is God. Again, graven images are an affront to our jealous God.

The more I am learning, the more I am certain there is a big, big problem. The problem isn't with the Bible.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Amen Brother. Well said. Praying to dead folks is too close to necromancy for me to try it...but am firmly convinced the Gospel of Chist is highly durable...surely tough enough to offset most of the man made garbage various denominations try to heap on it.


I don't know. Praying to those who have passed rather than to God is not good at all. God made that very, very clear. Why would someone who has a personal relationship with Jesus pray to another human, dead or alive?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

502 years ago this past week. Martian Luther put it on the door. It was not a new idea or a new church but a return to the bible teachings. You have Law and Gospel . The two go hand in hand but serve different purposes. Understanding each is very important.
The pope claims all authority in all madders. When in fact he has none. The bible is the authority.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> 502 years ago this past week. Martian Luther put it on the door. It was not a new idea or a new church but a return to the bible teachings. You have Law and Gospel . The two go hand in hand but serve different purposes. Understanding each is very important.
> The pope claims all authority in all madders. When in fact he has none. The bible is the authority.


I thought Fr. Luther nailed his 95 Theses on Halloween--I'm serious, not joking. "Reformation Day", they call it.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Hey @Denton



> Denton: Speaking of man-made notion, the notion that man is going to add to what the Bible says is folly, at best and a very bad sin at worst. It reminds me of when I was teaching an Israeli woman how to speak English. During one conversation, she was telling me about Judaism and how they did things. At one point, I pointed out that they were adding to the TaNak (Basically, the Old Testament. She responded by saying, "Ah, but we have executive privilege!" I then said, "Executive privilege? You think you are gods? God is the executive and not humans!" Yeah, that went over like a lead balloon.





> Annie: No, Christ has opened the gates of heaven for all. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying.





> Denton: Explain what you mean, please.


The Israeli lady was wrong. They no longer have executive privilege. Because God's people come from all nations now under the New Covenant. That's what Catholic means: it means Universal.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> Hey @Denton
> 
> The Israeli lady was wrong. They no longer have executive privilege. Because God's people come from all nations now under the New Covenant. That's what Catholic means: it means Universal.


I know she was wrong which was why I told her what I did. She was sweet but a fierce warrior of Shin Bet, but she was wrong.

It doesn't matter what Catholic means, I am now learning that it is chock-full of man-made doctrine that flies in the face of Biblical fact.
I've contacted a friend who I knew to be Catholic. Turns out, she is now Protestant. She says my concerns are accurate and she prays to God (and only God) for those who are still blinded by doctrine.

I love you, but I'm bowing out of this thread. Thank you for answering my questions, Dear!


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Us evil old Bible Thumpers tend to think a Lady name Semaramis and Her Son named Taummuz were the prototypes for The Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus of Catholic folk lore. Its a pretty sordid tale. Heres a link but prob not the best for those who might be intereted in exploring the concept.
Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz* - Follow In Truth


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Okay, guys. Even though this is only a forum, I think I really care for you all--all you guys almost like family--almost. I know I'm a bit of an anomaly here, but that's okay--at least by me. Because you all view the world in a way my Catholic friends and family are missing. They're not getting it. By en large, they think God will protect them--the traditional ones. Or else they're so preoccupied with what's wrong with the Catholic Church that they're too busy to prepare. Or others are the sleeping giants (mainstream Catholic), not paying attention to any of it, whether political or church-wise. 

So, anyway I can't or won't compromise or lie to you. I stand by these beliefs. If it costs me respect or contempt from others, so be it. It's the truth. But I don't think it will cost too much, at least not here at this forum. 

I will say this: I think a time is coming--and way sooner than I hope or wish--that anyone who holds to traditional Christian values will be persecuted, whether they be Catholic or Protestant. Somehow perhaps God will use that to His own purposes. I don't know, but for sure we will suffer if we're against the pc agenda.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Annie said:


> Okay, guys. Even though this is only a forum, I think I really care for you all--all you guys almost like family--almost. I know I'm a bit of an anomaly here, but that's okay--at least by me. Because you all view the world in a way my Catholic friends and family are missing. They're not getting it. By en large, they think God will protect them--the traditional ones. Or else they're so preoccupied with what's wrong with the Catholic Church that they're too busy to prepare. Or others are the sleeping giants (mainstream Catholic), not paying attention to any of it, whether political or church-wise.
> 
> So, anyway I can't or won't compromise or lie to you. I stand by these beliefs. If it costs me respect or contempt from others, so be it. It's the truth. But I don't think it will cost too much, at least not here at this forum.
> 
> I will say this: I think a time is coming--and way sooner than I hope or wish--that anyone who holds to traditional Christian values will be persecuted, whether they be Catholic or Protestant. Somehow perhaps God will use that to His own purposes. I don't know, but for sure we will suffer if we're against the pc agenda.


 The Catholic Church is a christian church. I fully respect your faith. I will never except the pope. He is not a god stand in. He has no special power or knowledge. The Catholic church has a long way to go. They have come along way. But so does all of mankind.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Smitty901 said:


> The Catholic Church is a christian church. I fully respect your faith. I will never except the pope. He is not a god stand in. He has no special power or knowledge. The Catholic church has a long way to go. They have come along way. But so does all of mankind.


Thanks, Smitty. I appreciate your kind intentions.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm including this here is because this synod involves an alliance between the Vatican and the United Nations. That's what's really and the heart of it.

POPE SACHS CHURCH: Vatican Embraces United Nations Goals


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)




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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Fred Simon @fredSim45243367
It wasn't that long ago they were worshipping false idols in the Vatican. Today the Vatican is shut down.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Good point. Was listening to an old Fundy Baptist preacher rambling one day.  He say "You know Catholics spend a lot of time holding The Virgin Mary up..and we spend a lot of time trying to tear her down." Think the morale of the tale was..she should probably get plugged in somewhere between the two extremes. Know the Bible says she is Blessed more than all other Ladies..so thats pretty special right there. Prob wouldnt nag at her Hubby like most ladies tend to do. lol.


Bp Fellay says the Councils say, 'Jesus, Son of God was "born" of the Father--beyond time in all eternity--of God the Father without a mother. Jesus is born in time without father (human father).' Think of that.

St Thomas said, 'Mary is reaching to the borders of the infinite.' In other words, you can not go higher. Take all the angels and saints combined and they cannot compare to the holiness in the Blessed Virgin Mary.

If Mary would have said, "no", nothing would've happen.

Oh, yes...God has a very special daughter....Mary is the Daughter of God the Father, Spouse of the Holy Ghost and Mother of God the Son.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

@Annie It's my understanding that Catholics consider the Church as the actual embodiment of Christ on earth. Is that correct? If so, it explains why Catholics believe that there's no salvation outside the Church. I don't agree with that, but it clarifies that point for Protestants.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Annie said:


> Bp Fellay says the Councils say, 'Jesus, Son of God was "born" of the Father--beyond time in all eternity--of God the Father without a mother. Jesus is born in time without father (human father).' Think of that.
> 
> St Thomas said, 'Mary is reaching to the borders of the infinite.' In other words, you can not go higher. Take all the angels and saints combined and they cannot compare to the holiness in the Blessed Virgin Mary.
> 
> ...





> Now Mary being the Spouse of the Holy Ghost thing is pretty darned kinky.


She's ever virgin. Mother Inviolate. Completely. When Jesus was born, he went through her womb just like He walked through the walls into the upper room after the resurrection.



> Sounds like Jewish mysticism. They think The Holy Ghost is God's Wife. Yall both cant be right.
> https://www.britannica.com/topic/Kabbala


Well, we know God's wants to be known as Father. Not mother.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

paulag1955 said:


> @Annie It's my understanding that Catholics consider the Church as the actual embodiment of Christ on earth. Is that correct?


No, I never heard it put that way. The Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ. Also, the Mystical Body of Christ. I think Protestants would understand that as 'being His Hands and Feet' as in doing His work on earth.



> If so, it explains why Catholics believe that there's no salvation outside the Church. I don't agree with that, but it clarifies that point for Protestants.


Everything that the Protestants believe that's in keeping with what the Catholic Church has always taught is true doctrine. There's a lot in common, but it comes from what was handed down from the Apostolic Faith.

These are my thoughts, but I could be wrong. I've met some very saintly Protestant people in my life.Jesus is Lord their and Savior. God only holds us responsible for what we can know. Protestants make a spiritual Communion with Jesus, without receiving the actual Body and Blood in Holy Communion. They have the Sacrament of Baptism. It could be enough....


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Annie said:


> No, I never heard it put that way. The Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ. Also, the Mystical Body of Christ. I think Protestants would understand that as 'being His Hands and Feet' as in doing His work on earth.
> 
> Everything that the Protestants believe that's in keeping with what the Catholic Church has always taught is true doctrine. There's a lot in common, but it comes from what was handed down from the Apostolic Faith.
> 
> These are my thoughts, but I could be wrong. I've met some very saintly Protestant people in my life.Jesus is Lord their and Savior. God only holds us responsible for what we can know. Protestants make a spiritual Communion with Jesus, without receiving the actual Body and Blood in Holy Communion. They have the Sacrament of Baptism. It could be enough....


We have something in common about hoping for one another. We hope that it is enough that y'all believe in n Jesus even though y'all have idol worship, pray to dead humans, create graven images, ask fellow humans for a solution of sin, etc.

I know a Protestant pastor who used to be a very knowledgeable catholic. When asked about the salvation of Catholics, he answered me by saying we need to pray hard for Catholics.

Now, can we stop the sectarian stuff and stick to common ground. It's bad enough that Baptists and Methodists go at each other like Alabama and Auburn fans! :tango_face_smile:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Bride of Christ is those who ho believe in Him, by the way. His followers. His “hands and feet” are a different thing.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

That goes for the Protestants. Knock off the sectarian crap. This is SHTF in Prophesy. Actually created to look at other cultures’ prophesies such as the Hopi and the like. Not for Auburn-Alabama bickering. 
Do I get a War Eagle? :tango_face_smile:


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> That goes for the Protestants. Knock off the sectarian crap. This is SHTF in Prophesy. Actually created to look at other cultures' prophesies such as the Hopi and the like. Not for Auburn-Alabama bickering.
> Do I get a War Eagle? :tango_face_smile:


I'm still trying to find scripture that states only Catholics or Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans or whoever will be the only people entering the Pearly Gates. Maybe I keep missing it. Can someone please point that out?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I'm still trying to find scripture that states only Catholics or Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans or whoever will be the only people entering the Pearly Gates. Maybe I keep missing it. Can someone please point that out?


Okay, what's your team? Aggies? :vs_smirk:


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Denton said:


> Okay, what's your team? Aggies? :vs_smirk:


I gave up sports many, many moons ago. I had been tired of how players were treated by the police and others. One time a long time ago, a Cowboy (my team btw) killed someone in a car accident that shouldn't have happened. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist. So I decided I was done with a bunch of overpaid kids, crybabies when it comes down to it, who have free reign to do as they wish because they are stars.

And for me personally it's the same with TV and the movies. A bunch of morons who are good at pretending to be others then want to tell us how to live. Bite me is all I think of when they open their lips.

A kid that used to work for me starting talking sports. I told him that I'm not interested in sports. He said you must really like Star Trek. I told him that I do. He said he figured, only nerds like sci-fi and not sports. I took that as a compliment.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I gave up sports many, many moons ago. I had been tired of how players were treated by the police and others. One time a long time ago, a Cowboy (my team btw) killed someone in a car accident that shouldn't have happened. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist. So I decided I was done with a bunch of overpaid kids, crybabies when it comes down to it, who have free reign to do as they wish because they are stars.
> 
> And for me personally it's the same with TV and the movies. A bunch of morons who are good at pretending to be others then want to tell us how to live. Bite me is all I think of when they open their lips.
> 
> A kid that used to work for me starting talking sports. I told him that I'm not interested in sports. He said you must really like Star Trek. I told him that I do. He said he figured, only nerds like sci-fi and not sports. I took that as a compliment.


Funny; I am watching Star Trek Voyager at the moment.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Denton said:


> That goes for the Protestants. Knock off the sectarian crap. This is SHTF in Prophesy. Actually created to look at other cultures' prophesies such as the Hopi and the like. Not for Auburn-Alabama bickering.
> Do I get a War Eagle? :tango_face_smile:


I'll give you a Roll Tide.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

inceptor said:


> I gave up sports many, many moons ago. I had been tired of how players were treated by the police and others. One time a long time ago, a Cowboy (my team btw) killed someone in a car accident that shouldn't have happened. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist. So I decided I was done with a bunch of overpaid kids, crybabies when it comes down to it, who have free reign to do as they wish because they are stars.
> 
> And for me personally it's the same with TV and the movies. A bunch of morons who are good at pretending to be others then want to tell us how to live. Bite me is all I think of when they open their lips.
> 
> A kid that used to work for me starting talking sports. I told him that I'm not interested in sports. He said you must really like Star Trek. I told him that I do. He said he figured, only nerds like sci-fi and not sports. I took that as a compliment.


I like Star Trek AND football.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

BTW @Annie I figure you already know this, but just in case I'm putting this out there. You are a person I like, admire and respect. You have a good heart. The only thing I really disagree with you on is the Catholic Church. And, if it matters, I belong to no denomination.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I'm still trying to find scripture that states only Catholics or Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans or whoever will be the only people entering the Pearly Gates. Maybe I keep missing it. Can someone please point that out?


From what I've gathered, that won't be found in the Bible.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Annie said:


> It could be enough....


I could never "do" enough to be saved, whether by joining the right church or partaking the Eucharist or being baptized. However, I have the assurance that I have, indeed, been saved.

Scripture tells me:

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, "Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame." Romans 10:9-11

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Annie, I respect you for your deeply held beliefs. It's heartening to see people who truly believe the teachings of their chosen church.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

inceptor said:


> I gave up sports many, many moons ago. I had been tired of how players were treated by the police and others. One time a long time ago, a Cowboy (my team btw) killed someone in a car accident that shouldn't have happened. He didn't even get a slap on the wrist. So I decided I was done with a bunch of overpaid kids, crybabies when it comes down to it, who have free reign to do as they wish because they are stars.
> 
> And for me personally it's the same with TV and the movies. A bunch of morons who are good at pretending to be others then want to tell us how to live. Bite me is all I think of when they open their lips.
> 
> A kid that used to work for me starting talking sports. I told him that I'm not interested in sports. He said you must really like Star Trek. I told him that I do. He said he figured, only nerds like sci-fi and not sports. I took that as a compliment.


 Still going on today


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Still going on today


Yes it is and I refuse to help pay them with their outrageous salaries.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> She's ever virgin. Mother Inviolate. Completely. When Jesus was born, he went through her womb just like He walked through the walls into the upper room after the resurrection.
> 
> Well, we know God's wants to be known as Father. Not mother.


Sorry Bigwheel, I messed up. I hit edit instead of reply. Oh, I'm such a spaz. Didn't mean to edit your post. I hope @Denton doesn't fire me.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

paulag1955 said:


> I could never "do" enough to be saved, whether by joining the right church or partaking the Eucharist or being baptized. However, I have the assurance that I have, indeed, been saved.


I could never do enough, either.



> Scripture tells me:
> 
> If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, "Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame." Romans 10:9-11
> 
> ...


And faith without works is dead.



> Annie, I respect you for your deeply held beliefs. It's heartening to see people who truly believe the teachings of their chosen church.


Thanks. And I know you love Jesus and I respect that, too.


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Annie said:


> I could never do enough, either.
> 
> And faith without works is dead.
> 
> Thanks. And I know you love Jesus and I respect that, too.


Faith without works_ is_ dead. We both agree on that, but I suspect we don't agree on exactly what the verse means.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

paulag1955 said:


> Faith without works_ is_ dead. We both agree on that, but I suspect we don't agree on exactly what the verse means.


I know. We best wait and God can settle it. :tango_face_wink:


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## paulag1955 (Dec 15, 2019)

Annie said:


> I know. We best wait and God can settle it. :tango_face_wink:


As He surely will.


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