# Health topic: Food poisoning



## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Been suffering for a couple days now. Not sure what brought it on for sure. Last thing I remember eating before I felt sick was nopalitos con salsa (cactus with salsa) that a friends mother made. She is Mexico Mexican, and it was an authentic recipe. It was delicious. I also had some kind of tostada with pasta and meat on it. 

Felt fine that night. Even cleaned my toilets sparkling clean. 

Next day, after the junkyard run, had to give a ride to a friend to their ranch. While waiting for them, I fell asleep in my truck. 

Later that night, I had to pick up a friend from the bus station, felt like sh!t but powered through it. 

Then yesterday all hell broke loose. Puking, diarrhea, fever, chills, horrible stomach cramps. Felt like my insides were paralyzed (even though I am a bit overweight, I have a healthy metabolism. Nothing stays in my gut for too long)

Today, still diarrhea but no puking. I can finally hold down Gatorade. Water is iffy. If I drink a glass of water, my stomach gets turbulent. 

So why did I write this?

Because sickness after SHTF can be debilitating. I was sick a month or so ago that kept me out of commission for a day or so. No big deal now, but SHTF, could be tragic. Today, I called out of a job I had lined up today. Can't be more than a few feet from a toilet. 

Plus, if anyone has cures or remedies for food poisoning, I'm all ears. Currently, I'm just letting it run its course while trying to stay hydrated. A friend recommended lemon tea (basically hot lemon water) and I have a batch off the fire right now cooling to a drinkable temperature. 

Stay healthy out there my friends!


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Hope you feel better soon. This isn't a cure but Pedialite (for infants) will help restore electrolytes you've lost. Now that I think about it probably not a bad idea to prep some for sickness post shtf. No sure how long it keeps though.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Crap! (Sorry, couldn't resist).

Get to feeling better!


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Sasquatch said:


> Hope you feel better soon. This isn't a cure but Pedialite (for infants) will help restore electrolytes you've lost. Now that I think about it probably not a bad idea to prep some for sickness post shtf. No sure how long it keeps though.


Pedialyte doesn't last very long on the shelf. I think the two bottles I have expire in another month or so. Only had them about 3 months.
The information on the label says to finish it or throw it out within 2-3 days after opening it, refrigerated or not.

As for sickness in general post-SHTF, it's gonna be bad times...
Routine will become the name of the game. Do what you *know* is safe to do, eat what you *know* is safe to eat, drink what you *know* is safe to drink. Anything else is inviting an early death without proper medical supplies or training.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

If you have the runs, I don't think you want to drink lemon anything. Lemons are a laxative.


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## Big Country1 (Feb 10, 2014)

That's definitely a sh!tty situation!

Vomiting and diarrhea are the body's way of flushing poison out of your system, so don't take any over the counter medicine to treat these symptoms. It'll have too run its course. You can replenish Electrolytes and drink clear liquids to stay hydrated. Good luck, and get better soon bud.


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## Suntzu (Sep 22, 2014)

Not much you can do. Just keep drinking Gatoraid/Powerade. Its essentially the same stuff as Pedialyte but about 10x cheaper per oz. I give my daughter Gatorade instead of Pedialyte, tastes better too.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Suntzu said:


> Not much you can do. Just keep drinking Gatoraid/Powerade. Its essentially the same stuff as Pedialyte but about 10x cheaper per oz. I give my daughter Gatorade instead of Pedialyte, tastes better too.


Gatorade contains about 2x the sugar, less sodium, and less potassium than Pedialyte.
Yes, it is cheaper, but there are drawbacks.
If you choose to go with a sports drink, look for the low calorie options to limit sugars.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks for the tips. 

I'm drinking Gatorade because I have the powder version stored for this kind of situation. Powder keeps for longer. 

Didn't know lemons were a laxative! Just drank some lemon tea. Turbulent stomach, but so far no needing to rush to the porcelain throne haha. 

Feeling a bit better though. Ate a couple peanut butter cookies (baked some last night because people were coming over to view the house. Nothing smells like home like fresh baked cookies )

Also bought a lasagna to bake but couldn't. Probably gonna do that tonight. I feel an appetite coming on!

And very very true about routine. Eat what you know is safe. I've had nopales before. I've also had pasta before. I assumed they were safe. 

And as far as hygiene is concerned, post SHTF, cleanliness is a must. Sure, our bodies will adjust, but most will not. I do not use antibacterial soap or anything. Just regular soap. Same with household cleaners. Mostly vinegar and citrus based cleaners. Only Lysol or harsh cleaner is when I clean my toilets and I use lime away for that. Gotta haven throne sparkling! Plus, the smell of most commercial heavy duty cleaners makes me ill. I dropped those little blue tabs in the toilet and had to remove them because the smell was making me nauseous. 

Ok, sorry about going off topic a bit lol.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Maybe its the Feds wanting us to consume expired food. Another threads from today.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Probably not food poisoning from the meal you described. More likely either from something you ate since, or you have a viral infection. Anyone you've been around sick or been sick lately? Food poisoning usually hits inside 24 hours.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Last person I had contact with that was sick was Thursday the 16th while cleaning out a garage. Possibly gotten sick from Thursday to Sunday/Monday? He had more of a cold than stomach issues though.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Nora Dawn Virus is going around in our schools right now. Some of the symptoms are diarrhea and vomiting.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

I wouldn't say food poisoning either, you said it took a couple days and well the Mexican stuff was the last thing you ate? for how many days? come on now it was the 100 year old twinky you found in the junk yard wasn't it LOL.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

symptoms sound a lot like beaver fever to me.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

I have had food poisoning twice in my life, once in the regular army and once in the guard 20 years later. 

Both times were accompanied with convulsive, constant vomiting, high temperatures and deliria.

I was hospitalized both times, first three days, second five.

The second time I had passed out and fell into the turret basket bottom under the 105, good thing I had my CVC helmet on.

I remember passing out, but not falling out of my seat (TC).

Was told they had a hard time getting me out of the turret, they used a dust-off to get me to the hospital, but I don't remember.

I woke up In time to hear the doc telling me he was giving me a shot to stop the vomiting.

I woke up again five days later with 2 IV's, one in each arm, and a catheter you know where.

There was no diarrhea, only vomiting eventually with blood coming out.

I only know about the blood after getting dressed to leave the hospital, my uniform was covered with it. 

The crew cleaned out the turret, feel bad about that.

Both times were caused by bad chicken!!!

After eating, there was about a four hour period of time before I started getting sick the second time, first time I have no clue, maybe about six hours.

There were six others stricken the last time.

Did not touch chicken for almost 15 years after that incident.


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

RNPrepper put up some nice info on this a while back. Here's the rehydration solution recipe she linked to: World Health Organization ORS Recipe
Shared by Darlene Kelly, MD and Joe Nadeau, RPh
This recipe is best when chilled in refrigerator.
Ingredients:
- 3/8 tsp salt (sodium chloride)
- ¼ tsp Morton® Salt Substitute® (potassium chloride)
- ½ tsp baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
- 2 tbsp + 2 tsp sugar (sucrose)
- Add tap water to make one (1) liter
- Optional: Nutrasweet® or Splenda® based flavoring of choice, to taste

Directions:
1. Add the dry ingredients to a 1 liter bottle.
2. Add enough water to make a final volume of 1 liter; mix well.
3. If desired, add Nutrasweet® or Splenda® based flavoring, to taste. Mix well.
4. Sip as directed by your physician.
5. Discard after 24 hours. 
Contains 27 grams of sucrose, 70 mEq per liter of sodium, 20 mEq per liter of potassium and 30 mEq per liter of bicarbonate. The final osmolarity is approximately 245 mOsm per liter.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Spice said:


> RNPrepper put up some nice info on this a while back. Here's the rehydration solution recipe she linked to: World Health Organization ORS Recipe
> Shared by Darlene Kelly, MD and Joe Nadeau, RPh
> This recipe is best when chilled in refrigerator.
> Ingredients:
> ...


This is actually pretty awesome. Sodium and chloride are the body's electrolytes. Water carries these electrolytes and helps balance them
In a weakened state sugar provides energy in its easiest to digest, process, and use. Potassium is also an electrolyte, but has an added bonus of easing your aches and preventing/reducing cramps and spasms.

Consume this mixture warm or hot if possible to help your lymphatic system flush toxins quickly.
If you can also find a source of vitamin C and calcium that stays down you will speed recovery even more. Vitamin C obviously to boost your immune system and flush toxins, and calcium is also an electrolyte, but will also help with muscle pain by helping the body process lactic acid.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Also, in an EMERGENCY this solution, without the sweetener and sugar can be used as an IV solution. (IV fluids are .5% saline, and water. (Make sure you use STERILE water. Boil, or even better distilled.)


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## Spice (Dec 21, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> Also, in an EMERGENCY this solution, without the sweetener and sugar can be used as an IV solution. (IV fluids are .5% saline, and water. (Make sure you use STERILE water. Boil, or even better distilled.)


The entire solution should be sterile, not just the water. I keep sterile water around by canning it: Whenever I'm canning food and am short a jar or two for a full load, I can a jar of water. That's for flushing wounds; if I meant to have an IV solution I'd add the salt before canning so it was sterile too (and it'd have to be a Serious emergency for me to try that; I'd worry about contamination getting the sterile solution into the IV bag).


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

I hope you're feeling better. 
God, I haven't been sick like that in a long time. THANK GOD!!!


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Feeling the same, but no puking or diarrhea. Wheezing, coughing, sore throat from coughing, slight headache from coughing. 

Totally weird.


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## kevincali (Nov 15, 2012)

Oh and I talked to my friend I believe got me sick. He said he was sick for a week, and it was a "cold" his aunt brought. 

I usually try to immerse myself among people. I've always had a strong immunity towards a lot of things. Sh!t, I lived in the back streets of Tijuana Mexico for a while. Ate home made tortillas bought from an old lady on the side of the dirt roads. Ate at hole in the wall dumps. And I do mean DUMPS. 

But at the rate I've been getting sick from other people lately, I'm afraid to go outside my front gate (if I can make it past my front door!) I am taking a friend to her job interview, and I'm dreading it. In my weakened state, I don't know what else I can "catch" 

I think once my house sells, and I buy out of state, I'm going to hold up in my house forever. Everyone can keep their sicknesses!!!


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

kevincali said:


> Oh and I talked to my friend I believe got me sick. He said he was sick for a week, and it was a "cold" his aunt brought.
> 
> I usually try to immerse myself among people. I've always had a strong immunity towards a lot of things. Sh!t, I lived in the back streets of Tijuana Mexico for a while. Ate home made tortillas bought from an old lady on the side of the dirt roads. Ate at hole in the wall dumps. And I do mean DUMPS.
> 
> ...


A little more vitamin C in your diet will go a long way. The immune system slows with age.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Spice said:


> The entire solution should be sterile, not just the water. I keep sterile water around by canning it: Whenever I'm canning food and am short a jar or two for a full load, I can a jar of water. That's for flushing wounds; if I meant to have an IV solution I'd add the salt before canning so it was sterile too (and it'd have to be a Serious emergency for me to try that; I'd worry about contamination getting the sterile solution into the IV bag).


In the movie shooter, Mark Walberg's character make a makeshift IV out of some tubing, a basting needle, and a water bottle.

Yes, I'm aware it's a movie however, everything he did in the movie was actually based on real training given to the military.

Point being, if you mix the solution in a 2 ltr bottle, you can administer it from said bottle. Just sterilize it first. Also consider that you will need to be careful in squeezing the bottle since it won't colapse on itself like an IV bag will.

Incidentally I did a quick search and discovered that you can actually purchase normal saline IV kits. You would have to rotate the stock often, since they do expire. (+- 1 year I believe)


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

*you can't use plain tap water*
*check out the differences between iv's - they can be crucial*
*Nifty gadgets:
Whatman Syringe Filters | Syringe Filters | Filtration | Med Lab Supply
NOT saying buy from that site, but ya'll should know about Whatman filters.









This is not a bad iv intro page

Nursing Center - CE Article


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

I totally agree with letting the body flush itself out. Don't try to stop it up with Imodium, Lomotil, or anything like that. The toxins need to get flushed out. There are about a dozen food borne organisms that can cause vomiting and diarrhea. Some will cause symptoms very quickly - within a few hours, while others may take 2-3 days. Oral rehydration is the way to go - small frequent sips. An adult can handle some short term dehydration better than a small child. If you have to go 24 hours without any oral intake, you will probably still be just fine. A child however, is a different story. You've got to keep those tiny teaspoons of ORF going around the clock. If vomiting starts again, then back off. I would be _extremely hesitant _to use IV hydration from homemade solutions. One slip in sterile technique at any point and you could introduce a fatal infection straight into the bloodstream. (Normal saline is 0.9%, by the way, not 0.5%.) Even in the most extreme dehydration disease of cholera, people are saved by oral rehydration. The only time I would even consider IV hydration post SHTF would be for someone with non stop vomiting and diarrhea, showing signs of _severe_ dehydration. I would be doing my best to keep them from reaching that point in the first place. However, if they are getting severely dehydrated and cannot keep anything down, then they are going to die anyway. IV fluids isn't going to hurt them at that point. (I start IV fluids every day at work. I know how to do it right, but even so, I would still be very cautious about doing it with homemade solutions or containers.) When a patient comes in with moderate dehydration, we will pour in IV normal saline until they start to pee. This may take 3-4 liters. Just be aware that it can take more volume than you think.

The main message of the thread is a great one - do your best to stay well. Wash hands frequently, be sure your water is safe, and always prepare your food on a very clean surface with clean utensils and dishes. Keep flies off of clean dishes. When SHTF, this will be very challenging, but absolutely essential to maintaining health.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

The most complete dehydration/diarrhea remedy ever. Very awesome.

By the way, I don't suggest using home mixed IV fluids either, except in extreme circumstances.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Also, if you are in a situation where you need to use IV fluids due to blood loss ie. gunshot wound, chainsaw accident, explosion, etc. Administer the fluids as slowly as possible. 

Yes, I know that's not how you were taught. Just squeeze the bag and get em in there. 

Well I can tell you by my own scientific research and a protocol at the US Army Institute of Surgical Research that I started, that it's wrong. We tested survivability with multiple types of resuscitation fluids at different flow rates.

The slower you rebuild blood pressure (or volume for you medical types) the better the clots stay put, the less strain is put on the system, and the longer and greater the survivability. 

We performed experiments with 250 test subjects, including "control" subjects.

subjects were inflicted with a fatal spleen injury. 
The control group received no fluids. 100% fatality rate within the 4 hour time limit.

The other groups were given combinations of each fluid at each flow rate.
fluids were
normal saline
whole blood
fresh frozen plasma
cryoprecipitate
platelets 

Flow rates
"Squeezed bag"
Bedside stand
"Bag on chest"

Of those receiving normal saline, only the "bag on chest" group had survivors. 
Out of the other groups, "bag on chest" had the highest survival rates, near 100%
bedside stand groups had significantly lower success rates, and squeezed bag groups had near 100% fatalities.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Very interesting info, Jak. Battlefield medicine has often resulted in great medical break-throughs that impact civilian medicine as well. The MASH units in Korea revolutionized emergency treatment and survival rates. Just one example of many. When SHTF for society, however, one of the hardest things to face will be the reality that most severely injured people are simply going to die. Precious resources (like IV fluids) cannot be used for victims of massive trauma when there is no medical facility to treat their injuries. Someone with a compound fracture (broken bone that punctures the skin) is going to die from infection, as will amputees. Those with internal injuries, appendicitis, and childbirth dystocia will also die. We talk almost nostalgically about returning to the 1800s when the lights go out, but medicine will also return to the 1800s as well. The knowledge will be there, but the resources won't be.

PS: I look forward to reading your battlefield IV administration findings in future studies. I'm sure there will be an impact on ER blood loss treatment.


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## GasholeWillie (Jul 4, 2014)

Fecal Ingestion. That is what it sounds like you may have gotten. As gross as that may sound, I once heard a nurse say that " the world is covered in a thin layer of fecal matter". I once upon a time was sick like you describe. With the fever, I was fairly certain it was not food poisoning. Laid me out for days with the runs and high fever and chills. Only vomited once and I forced myself to do that. I was doing everything I could think of relieve symptoms without stopping myself up, I was expelling mucus at one point. Just kept trying to stay hydrated and electrolytes in. Finally after 3 days of this nonsense I went to a Emergicare and was diagnosed with fecal ingestion. I think I had lost about 10 lb of water weight at that point and just felt awful like I had been beaten with a bat. Slowly the fever and chills subsided and I found that Gatorade was the least acidic drink I could tolerate. Pedialyte is nasty stuff, I don't care what flavor it is. Tasted like I was drinking salt water. 

I was finally able to eat something and really had a taste for a Wendy's burger and fries. Now I had not ate solid food for about 5 days. The burger tasted so salty I could not recognize that it tasted like a burger, fries the same way. Anyway it was a full body cleanse that hurt.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Yup. The fecal-oral route is to blame for most of this stuff. Wash your hands without recontaminating, and don't be touching your face and mouth all the time!


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

RNprepper said:


> Very interesting info, Jak. Battlefield medicine has often resulted in great medical break-throughs that impact civilian medicine as well. The MASH units in Korea revolutionized emergency treatment and survival rates. Just one example of many. When SHTF for society, however, one of the hardest things to face will be the reality that most severely injured people are simply going to die. Precious resources (like IV fluids) cannot be used for victims of massive trauma when there is no medical facility to treat their injuries. Someone with a compound fracture (broken bone that punctures the skin) is going to die from infection, as will amputees. Those with internal injuries, appendicitis, and childbirth dystocia will also die. We talk almost nostalgically about returning to the 1800s when the lights go out, but medicine will also return to the 1800s as well. The knowledge will be there, but the resources won't be.
> 
> PS: I look forward to reading your battlefield IV administration findings in future studies. I'm sure there will be an impact on ER blood loss treatment.


Likely. As I understand it will be released by either a Dr. Sondeen, or a Dr. Batchinski. it had been scheduled to be published in January, but I left in November, so I don't know what ended up happening.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Sorry. Know thats miserable. Back when the kids used to get stuff like that the doc said clear liquids only for 24 hrs. Water and sprite. No sports drinks. Gives the germs a chance to starve to death or something. Always worked pretty good unless somebody forget the advice too quick and try to eat something. Hang in there. Dont eat that stuff again.


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