# New battery could take your home off the grid



## Murphy (Oct 9, 2014)

New Tesla battery could take your home off the grid | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

Like many of Tesla's projects, this one is coming up fast. Mastermind electric power guy Elon Musk announced in an investor call that the designs for the home battery are complete. The public could get a glimpse of the design within the next month or two, with production beginning in as little as six months.

Tesla's new stationary battery could be the gateway that finally links renewable energy to everyday consumers in a way that makes sense. The challenge of storing clean energy from solar or wind is one of the reasons people are sticking with grid power. Although Musk hasn't commented on the cost of Tesla's newest energy offering, chances are good that it will still represent a savings versus grid electricity over the course of its lifetime.

An innovation in energy like this isn't just for the chic eco-friendly homeowner. These batteries could be a huge benefit for those living in areas where grid power is unreliable due to power outages. Some people respond to that situation by installing a gas- or propane-powered generator, which isn't always practical or affordable. The battery, which Musk promises will come packaged in an attractive-looking casing to fit in with any home's decor, will also work for commercial properties.

Read more: New Tesla battery could take your home off the grid | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Interest level: Piqued


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

I hope he makes it and it comes out- but TPTB will never let it fly they will try to buy him out or if that doesn't work make his whole family disappear. the electric companies have too much to loose. I am sorry to sound so negative but I remember things like tom olgle and an Indian guy that made a generator( or something like that) that was cheap and would like run for ever to power your house. saw it one time on the news like 10 years ago and never heard any more about it.


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## tango (Apr 12, 2013)

What does a Tesla battery cost?
What does it take to charge it?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> I hope he makes it and it comes out- but TPTB will never let it fly they will try to buy him out or if that doesn't work make his whole family disappear. the electric companies have too much to loose. I am sorry to sound so negative but I remember things like tom olgle and an Indian guy that made a generator( or something like that) that was cheap and would like run for ever to power your house. saw it one time on the news like 10 years ago and never heard any more about it.


There are contests every year for students to design and build working models of improvements in energy efficiency, fuel economy, etc...
There is always big fanfare made over the winners and their ideas.
Their idea is almost always bought up by a large company, the patent secured, and the whole thing locked away, never to be seen again.
Terrible, but true.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

I hope it is a 48 volt lithium battery with 20 years of life cycles at 50 percent discharge will amount to 20 kw per cycles draw down for less than ten thousand. I will hook a solar array to it. Call consumer s energy tell them to hug my nuts and throw the disconnect switch on my new smart meter.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

tango said:


> What does a Tesla battery cost?
> What does it take to charge it?


This is what I'm thinking. We'll no longer be beholden to an electric company but we will become beholden to Elon Musk.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Technology is of course the answer to energy and pollution issues, but sadly we live in a time where innovation is often tough to sell. Look at his cars; nice, sexy, powerful, and selling at $40k over sticker price. The elites in CA love the Tesla cars and pay well over a $100k for them and then get a tax break from uncle sam of $7500. At my home in Modesto you can pull down a local air district benefit for another $1k. I suspect his battery package for homes won't be affordable to "homes" that most of us know as "homes." They will serve the elites - but I don't mean that as all bad. At one time only elites had plasma TVs, then LEDs, and high end computers. Now most anyone can - even those with EBT. I hope Musk is for real on this one, and if its expensive let not let that kill it lets just hope its like a hard drive - my first hard drive was a whopping 20 megabytes for $200. Lets hope his battery's drop like hard drives and our world gets turned upside down in a good way. 

With $1.00 per watt panels and less than $1.00 per watt permits, installation costs, inverters and the related costs to adding a solar system a $2.00 per watt system now costs $.065 a kilowatt hour amortized without interest over 20 years. That is getting to the point of pairity with a lot of power supplies across the nation - especially as added grid maintenance costs are requiring utilities to raise rates (not too mention enviornuttjob regulations). CA for example has some communities paying $.33 a kilowatt hour so $.065 is a no brainer. If Musk has a battery that doesn't add more than a nickle to that cost of power over 20 years he has a winner. If it costs 10 to 20 cents its not going to work for the common man. But hey solar didn't work for common people until 5 or 7 years ago.


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I went to look at a Tesla auto once. It has not one, but hundreds of batteries tucked in the floor. I figured with hundreds of batteries they wouldn't all die at once stranding you, which was good, but figured one would want to change an individual battery when one went bad. So I asked what seemed like an obvious question: How do you change the batteries when needed? Answer: You can't. You have to take it to a Tesla dealer.

My reaction was this was pretty stupid. You can't maintain the most obvious maintenance item on the car? It ought to be as complicated as changing a battery in a flashlight. They're going to have to be a lot smarter before I want a Tesla battery wired into my house.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Would be nice. But I'm afraid of what the cost might be.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Reasonable cost and durability. 20k for a battery bank that dies after 5 years is a tough cost to eat. 5k for a battery bank that lasts 20 years has potential.


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

$80,000 for a Tesla electric car or $35,000 for a hybrid gas/electric?

Musk is a salesman & what he is selling is investment into his company.


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## 4Nines (Apr 9, 2012)

I for one am very interested in the new Tesla Powerwall system. I think having a couple Powerwall packs hooked up to some solar panels could be the ticket!

I started a thread discussing how it could all work together seamlessly here: Using the Tesla Powerwall With Solar Panels | Tesla Energy Forums


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## topgun (Oct 2, 2013)

I think this is all a pipe dream to finagle more US tax breaks and money from the political dupes we (you) elected. If batteries were meant to be God's gift to man, they'd already be in service because of all the environmentalists clamoring for them. The technology just ain't there Toto.

Put me on the side of: I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

I like the idea. My Google skills turned this up however:

The new Tesla Powerwall home batteries come in two sizes-seven and 10 kilowatt hours (kWh)-but the differences extend beyond capacity to the chemistry of the batteries. The 7kWh version is made for daily use, while its larger counterpart is only intended to be used as occasional backup when the electricity goes out. The bigger Tesla battery isn't designed to go through more than about 50 charging cycles a year, according to SolarCity spokesman Jonathan Bass.

Source and more info: http://fortune.com/2015/05/07/tesla-battery-solar/


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## 4Nines (Apr 9, 2012)

Good info Arklatex! The good news is that the Powerwall is made to link together so I'm thinking I could join three 7 kWh packs together or however many I need to run my household.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

10 years later -people will still be talking how cool it is -but no one has ever seen one.


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## Dubyagee (Nov 9, 2012)

Like the elusive Bloombox.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

So, I need 7 of those walls to equal the 200 amp service that feeds the "standard" home. (approx. 48000 watts or 1.152 Kw hours per day that is just over a megawatt hr. per day) 
Calculate your "normal" usage in Kw Hours and you can figure out how long you can be off the grid.
You are going to need a lot of solar panels and wind turbines to keep those things charged!

Realistically using about 1300 Kw hours per day is slightly better than average with real efficient electrical (and gas) you could get it down to 800 Kw per day. That means 66.7Kw per hour (based on 14 hours of power generation) to have a "turn key" off the grid home that is real efficient.


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## Charles Martel (Mar 10, 2014)

This is a much bigger deal than many people realize. Battery and super/ultra capacitor technology development is really starting to heat up. Tesla's battery bank is just the beginning. In another decade there will be inexpensive, biodegradable, commercially available ultra-capacitors made from carbonized natural fibers like hemp. 

Improved battery/capacitor technology is eventually going to do to large energy and automotive companies what Netflix and Amazon prime is doing to cable TV...or what DVD did to VHS. We won't recognize our world in 30 years. The days of big oil, energy, and automotive companies dictating prices and terms are very nearly over. The days of having no economically viable or technically practical alternative to grid power or gasoline powered vehicles is almost at an end. These are exciting times.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

PaulS said:


> So, I need 7 of those walls to equal the 200 amp service that feeds the "standard" home. (approx. 48000 watts or 1.152 Kw hours per day that is just over a megawatt hr. per day)
> Calculate your "normal" usage in Kw Hours and you can figure out how long you can be off the grid.
> You are going to need a lot of solar panels and wind turbines to keep those things charged!
> 
> Realistically using about 1300 Kw hours per day is slightly better than average with real efficient electrical (and gas) you could get it down to 800 Kw per day. That means 66.7Kw per hour (based on 14 hours of power generation) to have a "turn key" off the grid home that is real efficient.


Wow dude your calculator is way high or way off. How many kwh per month do you use at your house?

We were averaging 640 per month before our changes. Our last bill is 281 devised by 30 days equals 9.37 kwh per day.


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## TxBorderCop (Nov 19, 2012)

Sounds a lot like the Iron Edison hype of a few years ago.

I'll believe it when I see it. It is not in the interests of the energy companies - they will buy this out and it will disappear.

I am still awaiting my Mr. Fusion and Flux Capacitor. Installed in my De Lorean. And yelling Great Scott out the windows with a dog named Einstein.


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## BagLady (Feb 3, 2014)

alterego said:


> Wow dude your calculator is way high or way off. How many kwh per month do you use at your house?
> 
> We were averaging 640 per month before our changes. Our last bill is 281 devised by 30 days equals 9.37 kwh per day.


That's great! you've lowered your usage by more than half. What changes did you make?
We use an average of 645 a month.


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## William Warren (May 28, 2015)

When i was a kid, I told my dad that the radio said nuclear power would be "too cheap to measure". He just snorted and said "Oh, they'll find a way". 

Truer words were never spoken. 

William Warren


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

PaulS said:


> So, I need 7 of those walls to equal the 200 amp service that feeds the "standard" home. (approx. 48000 watts or 1.152 Kw hours per day that is just over a megawatt hr. per day)
> Calculate your "normal" usage in Kw Hours and you can figure out how long you can be off the grid.
> You are going to need a lot of solar panels and wind turbines to keep those things charged!
> 
> Realistically using about 1300 Kw hours per day is slightly better than average with real efficient electrical (and gas) you could get it down to 800 Kw per day. That means 66.7Kw per hour (based on 14 hours of power generation) to have a "turn key" off the grid home that is real efficient.


Did you mean per month? 1200 KwH per month is what we have been averaging lately.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Yes, My bad. IMy figures are for a month not per day... Now I have to go back and recalculate all those numbers again.:-?


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> Did you mean per month? 1200 KwH per month is what we have been averaging lately.


My home olny averages 1200 KW in the deep freeze of winter (JAN, FEB) and extremes of Summer (JUL, AUG) other than that we are normally down to around 790.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

I am looking forward to cheaper storage devices. Capacitors will be biodegradable (versus the hazmat of batteries) and charge much faster than conventional batteries. They will make it economical to take your house off the grid, and make electric cars a reality.
Elan Musk is from another planet, not sure if it's the same planet as Burt Rutan, but clearly not of this earth.


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## PaulS (Mar 11, 2013)

Capacitors have been around for a very long time. The problem with capacitors is not the charging of them, it is that they tend to discharge all at once! If you look up a laden jar you will find how easy it is to make a capacitor. The laden jar was typically connected to a lightning rod to charge it but any DC or static electrical charge will work. Caution: if you charge a laden jar with a lightning rod, discharge it from a safe distance - it can kill you!

They are learning to use "super capacitors" to add power to an electric motor for fast acceleration (fast discharge through the motor) to keep the drain on the battery down and then they use electric braking (reversing the polarity of the motor so it acts like a high voltage generator) to recharge the capacitor. The super capacitors decrease the losses between charge and discharge (which are very high in capacitors) to make them more efficient. 

The problem with capacitors are they take a lot of room, they take a long time to charge, the discharge is only controllable by turning a lot of the potential energy into heat. If you want to see some applications for super capacitors do a bit of research on "rail guns".


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