# literally just almost died.



## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Almost just stepped on this. Picture doesn't show it well, but it's a cottonmouth. 
No I'm not going back for a better pic, be lucky I managed to keep it together long enough to get the pic at all.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Wow! Can a cottonmouth kill you? I have a photo similiar to this (on film) of a timber rattler I came across once. I'm not afraid of snakes, but I sure respect the venomous ones.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

I sent that pic to Shoots...
me "I almost just died"
Shoots "is that a rattler"
Me "cottonmouth"
Shoots "bring it home"
Me "expletive you"
Shoots "it's so little and cute"


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Treating a Snake Bite - Cottonmouth Snake

And it was little, maybe 18 inches max. I don't know about cottonmouths, but baby rattlers are more deadly than adults (no venom injection control). Wasn't about to conduct the research.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Read your link Jak. They ARE very dangerous. We don't have them up here in PA, so they're not on my radar. Our most dangerous snake is the copperhead. Yes, there is a snake in this picture:

View attachment 10803


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

sideKahr said:


> Read your link Jak. They ARE very dangerous. We don't have them up here in PA, so they're not on my radar. Our most dangerous snake is the copperhead. Yes, there is a snake in this picture:
> 
> View attachment 10803


Spotted the tail almost immediately. Those suckered are nasty. Way more dangerous than rattler or cottonmouths. They will lie there and let you step on them then bite you like it's your fault. 
If I had to pick, I'd rather come across a rattler. They warn you, they want to be left alone. 
Cottonmouths will chase you, and they can swim and climb.


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## Ripon (Dec 22, 2012)

Snakes...."the reason God invented hand guns." 

I don't know who said it, but he was right. By the way don't feel bad shooting them, I don't know about cotton mouths but out here in NV I don't each Chicken much any more....I got rattlers and plenty of them.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)




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## csi-tech (Apr 13, 2013)

I would say that is, in fact a cottonmouth. Nasty buggers to be sure. There are alot of different water snakes that look a great deal like a cottonmouth but that looks like the real deal to me. Glad you didn't get bitten.


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## Mish (Nov 5, 2013)

Where was it? Looks like it was on concrete.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

I pulled a cotton mouth out of the pool last year. Boy was he pissed. Right up until I killed him. I had a dog at the time and there are kids in the neighborhood so I dispatched him rather then let him go. Funny, wife came in while I was doing reports in the study and said, " go kill the freaken snake in the pool." She hates the things. They command a lot of respect however. Jake, your right. Would much rather come across a rattler. They at least give you warning unless you surprise them.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

That's why I like Northern Michigan. NO poisonous snakes.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Glad to see you're not in the hospital.
Done here in AZ, the local government doesn't want us to kill the rattlers we come across. They want you to call the FD and they come out and relocate them. So three weeks ago the wife is out front just before dusk, spots a little guy (2 foot long) that was blending into the gravel. I couldn't believe it so I come out to check and can't tell for sure since there is another "good to have around" snake. Called next door neighbor and and he says, "Yup, that's a rattler, you don't want to mess the little guys. They'll inject all their venom if they bite as opposed to the big guys who won't inject much if any if you aren't the size to eat." So now we look around before we let the dog out.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Cottonmouths are more poisonous than rattlers, are very curious and agitate easily. They aren't good for eating and their skins aren't good for anything, either.

Good news is, you would have gotten medical attention in plenty of time. None of my inattentive friends have died from cottonmouth bites. One of them has been hit by a cottonmouth, a rattler, and a horse. Seems the animal kingdom isn't his friend. :laughhard:


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Copperheads are the dominant species of poisonous snake around Slippy Lodge. They are more afraid of you than you are of them...and escape is their preferred method. CCI .22 shot shells do not work on a Copperhead. .38 spl shot shells do. 

My preferred method of disposal of Copperhead Snake is Michelin atop F150.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

"Way more dangerous than rattler or cottonmouths. They will lie there and let you step on them then bite you like it's your fault"

Well it kinda is? They will freeze up if something is close. Animals can smell them, humans just have to be less thundering wildebeasts in the multi species environment.
Copperhead is least aggressive of cottonmouth or rattler


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

We have copperheads and water moccasins in CT. The baby copperheads are more venomous than the adults. When I see them, they die.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Say what you want, . . . the only good snake in my book is a dead one.

And if it even resembles a poisonous one, . . . I'll shoot it again just to be sure.

But I have a cousin from Ky, . . . he's about 6-3 and used to hit in the 250 or so market, . . . wearing something like a 13EEE on them there feet of his.

When he'd see a copperhead or rattler out in the woods, . . . he'd take about a 2 step run, . . . up in the air, . . . come down with both feet planted right firmly together, . . . and believe me when I tell you that snake did not have a chance.

I just shot em.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## slewfoot (Nov 6, 2013)

living in rural wooded area of SW Florida with a lake across the road and a canal the other direction we have had our share of Crawley critters. 
I have killed two diamond backs in my yard , one was 6' 1" with the head cut off, the other 6' with the head cut off., one 5' alligator in my back yard trying to push thru the screen into the pool, one cotton mouth. We use to have a lot of pigmy rattlers around but a few years ago we had an influx of black racers which eat them and the baby diamond backs so we have not seen any snakes in a few years. The gators do patrol back and forth in the lake watching and waiting.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Cottonmouths won't kill you, unless you are very young or elderly, but you will wish you were dead.
Jak, you failed Soldiering 101 if you are inattentive enough when walking to almost step on one in broad daylight. Heck, son, that could have been a trip wire connected to a claymore.
:armata_PDT_25:


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

paraquack said:


> Done here in AZ, the local government doesn't want us to kill the rattlers we come across. They want you to call the FD and they come out and relocate them.


That's a kiss my ass moment right there! If I spot a dangerous 'anything' on my property it gets relocated to dead.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Man tries to kiss water moccasin. What an idiot.
Florida man recovering after bite to face by deadly snake | www.palmbeachpost.com


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Man tries to kiss water moccasin. What an idiot.
> Florida man recovering after bite to face by deadly snake | www.palmbeachpost.com


Moron. He learned a little another tidbit about the moccasin. Unlike the rattler, they can get used to a human's presence. That doesn't mean they want to make out with humans, though.

For those of you who hate rattlers, take heart in that you scare time off its life every time you cause him to coil and rattle. You are scaring him to death, little by little.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Mish said:


> Where was it? Looks like it was on concrete.


Yep middle of the road in a storage facility. I think it got washed down the drainage canals from the woods a little ways upstream.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Cottonmouths won't kill you, unless you are very young or elderly, but you will wish you were dead.
> Jak, you failed Soldiering 101 if you are inattentive enough when walking to almost step on one in broad daylight. Heck, son, that could have been a trip wire connected to a claymore.
> :armata_PDT_25:


It was dark lol 0100. No real excuse, I should have seen it, I was busy looking at everything else and forgot to look at my own feet... rookie mistake.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> Moron. He learned a little another tidbit about the moccasin. Unlike the rattler, they can get used to a human's presence. That doesn't mean they want to make out with humans, though.
> 
> For those of you who hate rattlers, take heart in that you scare time off its life every time you cause him to coil and rattle. You are scaring him to death, little by little.


Hey Denton ,

Do they still hold the Rattlesnake Rodeo down in Opp?

In Denton's FEMA Region 4 area, Opp, AL used to be the sponsor of the Annual Rattlesnake Rodeo. A short drive from Opp, to Enterprise, AL will get you to the Monument of the Boll Weevil... for those that don't know...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Jakthesoldier said:


> It was dark lol 0100. No real excuse, I should have seen it, I was busy looking at everything else and forgot to look at my own feet... rookie mistake.


At least you didn't pick it up and try to kiss it.:joyous:

Did you go to the link and look at that dude's face? :excitement:


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Hey Denton ,
> 
> Do they still hold the Rattlesnake Rodeo down in Opp?
> 
> In Denton's FEMA Region 4 area, Opp, AL used to be the sponsor of the Annual Rattlesnake Rodeo. A short drive from Opp, to Enterprise, AL will get you to the Monument of the Boll Weevil... for those that don't know...


They will be doing that as long as there are rattlers to harvest, I expect.


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## SoCal92057 (Apr 12, 2014)

My Marine company was on a training exercise in the American high desert where there were rattlers. All the Marines had been briefed to leave the rattlers alone. The company was spread out to sleep on the ground and I was getting tired of hearing about all the rattler sightings. Just after sunset and I entered the CP area and my XO started to tell me about another rattler sighting. I cut him off telling him that I was tired of all the talk about rattlers and to NOT keep the conversation going. That was when he said, “Alright sir, but I think you ought to know this one is coiled up about 2 feet from your sleeping bag.” I held that rattler down with a shovel and another Marine chopped it up with an ax.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

Love this!


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## topgun (Oct 2, 2013)

Say what you want about our snow, ice, cold weather or what have you up here in Michigan, but other than a momma bear with cubs, or a very, very rare Massasauga rattler, there ain't much to be afraid of in our woods, waters and swamps (Not counting the animals you find in our cities). I spent a year or so in Houston, and always had to be on my toes for snakes, stuff laying on the beach that you didn't want to step on, fire ants, tree roaches, sharks, jelly fish and who knows what else.

And besides, the snow is fun to play in when it starts getting a little deeper, and you have the necessary toys.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Mish said:


>


It's funny, my friends were going around the room choosing what super hero everyone was. When it came to me everyone said Indiana Jones. I also actually am incredibly unfond of snakes.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Sad, that y'all are likening yourselves to super heroes.

Could be worse. Y'all could have been comparing each other to politicians, I suppose. :grin:


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Denton said:


> Sad, that y'all are likening yourselves to super heroes.
> 
> Could be worse. Y'all could have been comparing each other to politicians, I suppose. :grin:


Eh, we were going by personality and physical stature, just wasting time.

My second most voted was the Punisher. I liked that one too, but my vote didn't count.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

I fail to see how you almost died? I get those things in my back yard all summer long- just give them a wide berth and if they decide to hang around for a day or so, kill it.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Snakes are part of life here. We have timber rattlers, cotton mouths, and copperheads. I've never seen a diamondback here. They are down in the coastal areas. Their bite is generally not fatal unless there is some other underlying medical condition or age but like others said you will wish you died.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Please indulge me a moment for being the grammar nazi. There are no 'poisonous' snakes. Snakes are 'venomous'. You can eat a venomous snake and not be poisoned.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programing.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> I fail to see how you almost died? I get those things in my back yard all summer long- just give them a wide berth and if they decide to hang around for a day or so, kill it.


I almost died because I almost stepped on it. I was less than 3 feet from it when I noticed it. Was scanning high at the moment.

Granted, died is an exaggeration. There is a clinic on the property I was working open 24 hours. And I had plenty of ways to tourniquet off my leg if need be.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

wise man walks with bow'd head, the fool is the one who never looks up.

carry on grasshopper,LOL


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Pssh... girls.
Man up and grow a pair...



> Texas is home to the following venomous snakes: the Copperhead, *Cottonmouth*, *Rattlesnake*, Western Diamondback *Rattlesnake*, Timber *Rattlesnake*, Mojave *Rattlesnake*, *Blacktail Rattlesnake*, Western *Rattlesnake*, *Massasauga*, Pygmy *Rattlesnake*, and Harlequin Coral Snake.


South Texas Poison Center(for pics)

:distrust:


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> Please indulge me a moment for being the grammar nazi. There are no 'poisonous' snakes. Snakes are 'venomous'. You can eat a venomous snake and not be poisoned.
> 
> Now back to your regularly scheduled programing.


Venom gland/sacs?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhabdophis
hehehe I always hated that comment.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> And I had plenty of ways to tourniquet off my leg if need be.


FYI, don't do that.
Trapping the venom in a limb will cause a faster onset of symptoms to that limb and start necrosis more quickly.
Allowing the venom to disperse to your body actually gives you a higher survivability rate due to dilution.
I know it sounds wrong, but you will most likely live and make a full recovery if you let the venom run through the body while seeking medical help.
Applying a tourniquet is almost a sure fire way to lose that limb entirely.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> FYI, don't do that.
> Trapping the venom in a limb will cause a faster onset of symptoms to that limb and start necrosis more quickly.
> Allowing the venom to disperse to your body actually gives you a higher survivability rate due to dilution.
> I know it sounds wrong, but you will most likely live and make a full recovery if you let the venom run through the body while seeking medical help.
> Applying a tourniquet is almost a sure fire way to lose that limb entirely.


Unless its nuerotoxic in which case could save your life but that comes down to knowing your snakes and locales.
http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/anaesthesia/resources/venom/snakebite.html
Either way slowing down the spread of neurotoxic venom's is beneficial aussies arnt the only ones practicing this alot of south america and countries like india. AGAIN NOT a major concern in the US OF A sorry got a little bent outta shape in a different thread.
edited to add link they be real doctors I hope.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Kauboy said:


> FYI, don't do that.
> Trapping the venom in a limb will cause a faster onset of symptoms to that limb and start necrosis more quickly.
> Allowing the venom to disperse to your body actually gives you a higher survivability rate due to dilution.
> I know it sounds wrong, but you will most likely live and make a full recovery if you let the venom run through the body while seeking medical help.
> Applying a tourniquet is almost a sure fire way to lose that limb entirely.


I was less than 100 yards from the clinic. A tourniquet would have stopped the venom flow for the 2-3 minutes it might have taken me to get medical care.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

I'll be danged, ApexPredator, you're right. There are poisonous snakes. This board is filled with knowledgeable people, I always learn something here.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> I'll be danged, ApexPredator, you're right. There are poisonous snakes. This board is filled with knowledgeable people, I always learn something here.


I kept getting corrected, cuss I was be raised with poisonous snakes. So I found this to say wanna bet. Nothing personal.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

ApexPredator said:


> Unless its nuerotoxic in which case could save your life but that comes down to knowing your snakes and locales.
> Treatment of Australian Snake Bites
> Either way slowing down the spread of neurotoxic venom's is beneficial aussies arnt the only ones practicing this alot of south america and countries like india. AGAIN NOT a major concern in the US OF A sorry got a little bent outta shape in a different thread.
> edited to add link they be real doctors I hope.


That page didn't mention applying a tourniquet as a viable option.
In fact, they stated just what I did:


> *Do NOT **incise or cut the bite, or apply a high torniquet!
> *Cutting or incising the bite won't help. High torniquets are ineffective and can be fatal if released.
> ...
> The pressure-immobilisation approach is simple, safe and will not cause iatrogenic tissue damage (ie, from incision, injection, freezing or arterial torniquets - all of which are ineffective).
> ...


Did I misread something?


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

LOL intentionally prolly
Did they advocate letting the venom dilute throughout the body like you said "Allowing the venom to disperse to your body actually gives you a higher survivability rate due to dilution". Doesnt sound like what you said but does sound like they advocate slowing it down LIKE I said.
They say that the compression wrap would slow the spread of venom through the lymphatic system. Which is the lowest pressured of the three system which if your closing that system off means your tourniqueting it. I completely understand their avoidance of the use of the word tourniquet because you automatically assumed you had to stop arterial blood flow and prolly assumed you should go high as well both of those being quantifiers in the discussion, however surgeons routinely use a compression wrap to stop and slow bleeding of patient during surgery and they dont call it a tourniquet so theres a whole host of quantifiers to talk about if youd like.
Caspian cobra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dont slow this snake venom down youll be dead in 60 and not from rhabdo.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

ApexPredator said:


> LOL intentionally prolly
> Did they advocate letting the venom dilute throughout the body like you said "Allowing the venom to disperse to your body actually gives you a higher survivability rate due to dilution". Doesnt sound like what you said but does sound like they advocate slowing it down LIKE I said.
> They say that the compression wrap would slow the spread of venom through the lymphatic system. Which is the lowest pressured of the three system which if your closing that system off means your tourniqueting it. I completely understand their avoidance of the use of the word tourniquet because you automatically assumed you had to stop arterial blood flow and prolly assumed you should go high as well both of those being quantifiers in the discussion, however surgeons routinely use a compression wrap to stop and slow bleeding of patient during surgery and they dont call it a tourniquet so theres a whole host of quantifiers to talk about if youd like.
> Caspian cobra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Dont slow this snake venom down youll be dead in 60 and not from rhabdo.


For being wrong, you sure try to pretend otherwise.
Not a single source available recommends using a tourniquet, which is the topic at hand. Changing topics to whether or not pressure should be applied is entirely different. Doing so simply to sound right is an attempt to mislead.
Whatever education you claim to have in a professional context is irrelevant to the layperson. If the topic is whether or not to apply a tourniquet, the answer is no.
If the topic were instead, "what should one do if bitten", then including the instructions to apply proper pressure to the wound would be more than acceptable.

As for what I stated...
From the WHO:


> A tight (arterial) *tourniquet should NEVER be used*! Tourniquet is one of the most popular first-aid methods in Africa and continues to cause *terrible morbidity and even mortality*in snakebite victims: *tourniquet should not be used.* The dangers of tourniquets are ischaemia and gangrene, if they are applied for more than about 2 hours; damage to peripheral nerves (especially the lateral popliteal nerve at the neck of the fibula);increased fibrinolytic activity; congestion and swelling; increased bleeding; *increased local effects of venom*; and, immediately after release, shock, pulmonary embolism or rapidly-evolving life-threatening systemic envenoming.


I went ahead and emphasized the parts that are in full agreement with what I said.

So, to respond to the layperson's mention of using a *TOURNIQUET* in response to a venomous snake bite, the overwhelming consensus is "NO". (Apex's elite super-secret medical training, notwithstanding)
And if the OP (from San Antonio) happens to get bit by a cobra from Central Asia, then he's probably screwed.
A site giving specific instruction on first aid in response to this snake's bite includes a mention to NOT use a tourniquet. WCH Clinical Toxinology Resources (#6)

This wasn't supposed to be a pissing match. You seem to turn them into such sometimes.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Nice to know about the no tourniquet rules. They are going to need to re-write the boyscout handbook First Aid section in the snake bite section. It was an essential ingredient in all scout first aid kits..along with a little knife to cut xs on the fang holes and a venom sucker thing. Ya know the guy at camp taught a class on it it and he said..If a person gets bit by a Coral snake..which they bite mainly on the figers because they have small mouths or something..only remedy available would be to cut off the finger with a trusty boy scout hatchet..quickly. Surely there are better cures for that nowadays.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> If a person gets bit by a Coral snake..which they bite mainly on the fingers because they have small mouths or something..only remedy available would be to cut off the finger with a trusty boy scout hatchet..quickly. Surely there are better cures for that nowadays.


Yeesh, I should hope that wasn't ever actually done. Luckily, there are far better alternatives to amputation available today. :mrgreen:


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## jdbushcraft (Mar 26, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Nice to know about the no tourniquet rules. They are going to need to re-write the boyscout handbook First Aid section in the snake bite section. It was an essential ingredient in all scout first aid kits..along with a little knife to cut xs on the fang holes and a venom sucker thing. Ya know the guy at camp taught a class on it it and he said..If a person gets bit by a Coral snake..which they bite mainly on the figers because they have small mouths or something..only remedy available would be to cut off the finger with a trusty boy scout hatchet..quickly. Surely there are better cures for that nowadays.


BSA follows the American Association of Poison Control Centers guidelines. They say to never use a tourniquet for bites. How old is your handbook?


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Kauboy said:


> For being wrong, you sure try to pretend otherwise.
> Not a single source available recommends using a tourniquet, which is the topic at hand. Changing topics to whether or not pressure should be applied is entirely different. Doing so simply to sound right is an attempt to mislead.
> Whatever education you claim to have in a professional context is irrelevant to the layperson. If the topic is whether or not to apply a tourniquet, the answer is no.
> If the topic were instead, "what should one do if bitten", then including the instructions to apply proper pressure to the wound would be more than acceptable.
> ...


Dissembling again I am familiar with the tactic. I was wrong then you are as well you can argue I used improper terminology but thats about it, the core of the point is still about nuerotoxic snakes and the necessity to slow uptake of venom to save their life which I made clear in my original statement since I am still correct about that whats your argument silent acceptance of my point while shouting out improper terminology. As far as the OP being bitten by a nuerotoxic snake I think that was clearly addressed in my first post on it. If you want to argue pros and cons of applying a tourniquet we can because I get to make that decision for my patients and while many providers will hide behind protocol I dont so understanding how compartment syndrome works how rhabdo works how evac times and access to care all play into the decision.

Unless its nuerotoxic in which case could save your life but that comes down to knowing your snakes and locales.
http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/anaest...snakebite.html
Either way slowing down the spread of neurotoxic venom's is beneficial aussies arnt the only ones practicing this alot of south america and countries like india. AGAIN NOT a major concern in the US OF A sorry got a little bent outta shape in a different thread.

I understand because of "Apex's elite super-secret medical training, notwithstanding" Yes it is in fact elite top field care provider in the world that I know of although its not secret so here it is and still only skill level 3 that irks me sometimes.

18D Medical Training Skill set

18D30 Special Forces Medical Sgt: 46 weeks

Basic Life Support/Automatic External Defibrillation (AED); pharmaceutical calculations; anatomy; physiology; pathophysiology; medical terminology; basic physical exam techniques; medical documentation; pharmacology; basic airway management; medical patient assessment; advanced airway management; prehospital trauma emergencies; patient management tasks/skills; advanced trauma skills; operating room procedures; minor surgical skills; obstetric and pediatric emergencies; crdiac pharmacology; Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS), clinical/ambulance rotation; extended care to the trauma patient in a field environment; mass casualty; military triage system; medical mission planning; medical threat; preventive medicine; physical examination; veterinary; dental laboratory; medical diseases and case studies; nursing; initial and long-term wound care; echelons of care (EOC) including training in combat trauma management, UW hospital, surgical procedures, preanesthesia, anesthesia, postanesthesia care, nursing care, records and reports, radiology, and central materials supply; attends a special operations clinical training site (30 days at a U.S. Army medical training facility within CONUS) including clinical training/experience and evaluation on ability to apply patient assemssment/management/care skills in various clinical settings; rotations through surgery, dermatology, pediatrics, orthopedics, radiology, preventive medicine/community health, and the outpatient/family practice clinic.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

On a related note last night Shoots and I were walking the dogs when another snake crawled out of the grass and nudged Shoots on the ankle.

I am purchasing a couple snake bite kits on payday.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

Envenomation is treated symptomatically and to break down the oily venom neutralizing it as much as possible.
The tourniquet will not do much because of the way venom spreads in the body and unless you're prepared to fully evaluate and use a strategy, it could contribute to deeper tissue damage.
Snake bite kits should be made for a drawing poultice that is antibiotic, like plantain/echinacea/alum and an internal solvent that protects organs and expedites venom break down. Antihistamine first and certainly some nice narcotics, then wash that infectious irritant our with detox teas like echinacea/burdock/sorrel
Don't know what kits cost or is in them these days?
I do know that where staph/strep/plague has become insidious, if you cut a dirty bite it is the same as entering flesh eater or plague directly into your blood stream. We try to watch doing that to people 
Try not to be so panicky, that only makes worse. 
Your dog will typically avoid a venomous snake but eat the plaguey rat that is around because no snake to get the poor thing.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

ApexPredator said:


> Dissembling again I am familiar with the tactic. I was wrong then you are as well you can argue I used improper terminology but thats about it, the core of the point is still about nuerotoxic snakes and the necessity to slow uptake of venom to save their life...


I'll try this one last time.
The "core of the point" was whether or not Jakethesoldier should use a tourniquet on his leg if he were bitten by a Cottonmouth.
The answer is a resounding "No".

Altering the discussion, even a tiny bit with regards to terminology, is a tactic I'm well versed in spotting.
It is a strawman, designed to make one sound superior when they have made an incorrect statement.
Continuing to defend this alteration in order to claim you are still correct is, again, misleading.

The fact remains:
Do NOT use a tourniquet in response to a snake bite.
You can agree with this, or disagree with the entire medical community. Your choice.

As to whether pressure should be applied directly to the wound, that is still viable, and medically supported.

We cool, champ?


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> On a related note last night Shoots and I were walking the dogs when another snake crawled out of the grass and nudged Shoots on the ankle.
> 
> I am purchasing a couple snake bite kits on payday.


Get some *good* leather boots too. Most snakes can't penetrate thick leather.
An ounce of prevention... ya know?


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

So wait... On this tourniquet thing. At the risk of totally threadjacking (Mods split into new if you think it warrants it) - what is the deal with tourniquets?

I have material that says both yes and no and printed at alternative times. And then some stuff I've read just says you "may" want to use one but it "depends." WTF kind of guidance is that?
I'm not saying any one is wrong. If anything I'm wrong because I've been following the pro/anti tourniquet thing for years and I'm still confused as all hell.

Do we use them? For snake bites? Why / Why not?


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## jdbushcraft (Mar 26, 2015)

I don't know how it is viewed now, but I was taught to use a constriction band 6 to 8 inches above the bite, to slow blood flow, not stop it. That would be like a bandana tied snugly but where you could get like three fingers under it.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

GTGallop said:


> So wait... On this tourniquet thing. At the risk of totally threadjacking (Mods split into new if you think it warrants it) - what is the deal with tourniquets?
> 
> I have material that says both yes and no and printed at alternative times. And then some stuff I've read just says you "may" want to use one but it "depends." WTF kind of guidance is that?
> I'm not saying any one is wrong. If anything I'm wrong because I've been following the pro/anti tourniquet thing for years and I'm still confused as all hell.
> ...


Now *THIS* gets to the crux of it.
A tourniquet, by definition, is "_a device for *stopping* the flow of blood through a vein or artery, typically by compressing a limb with a cord or tight bandage_".
Now, by that definition, you should NOT use a tourniquet according to the WHO and many other medical organizations.
You do NOT want to *stop* all blood flow.
Various reason are given, including a deeper infection from the venom into the restricted limb causing a faster onset of necrosis and possible limb loss.

To Apex's point, which he attempted to conceal as the same topic, you DO want to apply pressure to the wound. This *slows* (key word there) blood flow and the venom's movement through the lymphatic system. This is known as the "pressure-immobilization" technique.
Using that technique, pressure is applied directly to the bite wound, but not enough to stop blood flow in the limb, and then bandages are applied to hold the pressure pad(usually folded gauze, or the like) in place. That's the pressure part. Next, you want to immobilize the patient, or at least the limb. This keeps the spread from speeding up due to exertion.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

I can't see pressure unless it's bleeding badly. Maybe it makes people feel reassured. Mash it on in to that tissue.

The reason you see conflicts is first aid sheets are written for the lay person without other aid until they get there. When you see text about making an evaluation it's written to someone who can, you weren't missing anything.


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## GTGallop (Nov 11, 2012)

So do I use a belt/strap type of devise to slow, but not stop the flow of blood? Is the secret in how tight you make it or is it a no all the way around?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

jdbushcraft said:


> BSA follows the American Association of Poison Control Centers guidelines. They say to never use a tourniquet for bites. How old is your handbook?


Dang folks can ask some prying questions around here..lol. My official handbook which I aint seen in many moons was issued in the midish 50's. I knew they had prob changed up a bunch of stuff by now. Know I still owned the snake bite kit way up past high school. That little venom sucker works great on teenage zits. Yall break me up around here.


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## oddapple (Dec 9, 2013)

GTGallop said:


> So do I use a belt/strap type of devise to slow, but not stop the flow of blood? Is the secret in how tight you make it or is it a no all the way around?


Yes if you are ever in the situation it will be obvious. Besides, as circulation is compromised your patient will start cranking around about it and that's always a good time to check limb color, flow and loosen for a bit to restore flow. But by the time it starts going blue they will be complaining anyway.
With bleeders pressure is better than a tie if you can - every time you loosen a tie to allow some flow, the back pressure seems worse than from direct pressure and it's probably me, but it seems like they clot quicker with pressure too. But it's good to know the theory and application because anything can happen.


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## shoot2live (Feb 6, 2015)

Jakthesoldier said:


> On a related note last night Shoots and I were walking the dogs when another snake crawled out of the grass and nudged Shoots on the ankle.
> 
> I am purchasing a couple snake bite kits on payday.


The snake was 6" long and cute as a button. Jak, can we go back and find it? I swear I saw it again last night...


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## just mike (Jun 25, 2014)

22 caliber colibre if they are in the yard, 45acp everywhere else. Seriously, I read an article a couple of years ago about rattlers in Texas and Florida that have learned NOT to rattle. Seems like hogs just love snakemeat and when they rattle it just brings on the hogs which we have in abundance.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

just mike said:


> 22 caliber colibre if they are in the yard, 45acp everywhere else. Seriously, I read an article a couple of years ago about rattlers in Texas and Florida that have learned NOT to rattle. Seems like hogs just love snakemeat and when they rattle it just brings on the hogs which we have in abundance.


That's true. However anywhere with a population of hogs won't have snakes. They know where to avoid.
Hogs and donkeys are great natural protection from snakes.
Donkeys more so, as they'll keep out four-legged critters too.


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