# What will be the tipping point for America?



## rebroome

A popular idea, most recently in a book by Malcolm Gladwell, describes the phenomenon where things reach their boiling point, reach a critical mass and things boil over or go out of control. Others, long before Gladwell, described this kind of an event. This forum devotes so much to what we need to do to prepare for this, but…what do you think is the one thing or event, combined with the rest of what is going on in the world, that will put us over the tipping point and things spin out of control -- maybe permanently?

What will be the tipping point for America?

Our mounting debt?
Our inability to govern and solve problems?
Our weak foreign policy?
The mounting evidence our intelligence community is spying on Americans?
Tainted food (GMOs) and water supply (pollution)?
Social engineering like Obama Care?
Something else?

In other words, all the above contribute to this, but what will be the one triggering event that finally pops the cork?


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## inceptor

That, my friend, is the $64,000 question.

It won't be the bottom 3. They have been programming us for this eventuality.

My guess will be either foreign policy or the economy. The economy is what I believe will happen although he is putting us in a bad situation with the current foreign policy.


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## rebroome

inceptor said:


> That, my friend, is the $64,000 question.
> 
> It won't be the bottom 3. They have been programming us for this eventuality.
> 
> My guess will be either foreign policy or the economy. The economy is what I believe will happen although he is putting us in a bad situation with the current foreign policy.


Couldn't agree more with you my friend. It is both the toughest question and the one we need to think about the most. On another thread there is a discussion about will we see it coming? I think we can, and at the least, have an idea of what could be the tipping point.


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## vandelescrow

I think we are beyond the tipping point. Something has to be changed or this country will not recover. We have more debt then we can pay back, and giving even more of it away to foreign aid. Not to mention welfare alone has brought us to the breaking point.

(Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich no more, I want to save the world, but I don't know what to do) remember that song?


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## Smitty901

When the liberals run out of cash to buy votes and support. When they can no longer hand out enough to keep the masses quiet. 
Plain and simple . It has happen before and we just passed out more cash . This time there will be no more to pass out.


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## Pir8fan

vandelescrow said:


> I think we are beyond the tipping point. Something has to be changed or this country will not recover. We have more debt then we can pay back, and giving even more of it away to foreign aid. Not to mention welfare alone has brought us to the breaking point.
> 
> (Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich no more, I want to save the world, but I don't know what to do) remember that song?


Agreed. Our national debt is insurmountable and can never be repaid. Our government now views us as serfs. Once all of the people currently living on the public (whether it be social security recipients, welfare recipients, government employees or government retirees) are no longer receiving theirs, then you will see the chaos start. Remember the videos of the Wal-Mart when welfare cards weren't working? VIDEO: Welfare EBT users clear out Wal-Mart after EBT card glitch

The only reason we haven't descended into chaos yet is because the government is still making those payments. Sooner or later ( I believe sooner) those payments will stop.


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## Prepp(g)er

i'll go with the zombie apocalypse ;-)


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## Notsoyoung

rebroome said:


> A popular idea, most recently in a book by Malcolm Gladwell, describes the phenomenon where things reach their boiling point, reach a critical mass and things boil over or go out of control. Others, long before Gladwell, described this kind of an event. This forum devotes so much to what we need to do to prepare for this, but&#8230;what do you think is the one thing or event, combined with the rest of what is going on in the world, that will put us over the tipping point and things spin out of control -- maybe permanently?
> 
> What will be the tipping point for America?
> 
> Our mounting debt?
> Our inability to govern and solve problems?
> Our weak foreign policy?
> The mounting evidence our intelligence community is spying on Americans?
> Tainted food (GMOs) and water supply (pollution)?
> Social engineering like Obama Care?
> Something else?
> 
> In other words, all the above contribute to this, but what will be the one triggering event that finally pops the cork?


All of the above.


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## Rigged for Quiet

We may soon see if our foreign policy leads to dire domestic economic straights. If the EU/Germany and the US follow though with sanctions against Russia both China and Russia may accelerate our economic decay.

Certai9n alphabet soup agencies becoming more brazen, such as in Connecticut, could be a flash point as well.


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## SDF880

vandelescrow said:


> I think we are beyond the tipping point. Something has to be changed or this country will not recover. We have more debt then we can pay back, and giving even more of it away to foreign aid. Not to mention welfare alone has brought us to the breaking point.
> 
> (Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich no more, I want to save the world, but I don't know what to do) remember that song?


I agree we are past the point! Geared up here to see where we land and what will be left.

I do remember that song by 10 Years After


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## Ripon

Fall off to the left or to the right? 

Smitty is right if the left runs out of money they'll have riots in the streets demanding more. You see this happening in France now. Well you would if there was journalism reporting on it. 

On the right they could spark a war with gun owners if they do something stupid like try to arrest the people resisting registration. I don't think the right will riot they'll just start killing people and blowing things up. I support the right but pray they don't go that route for a peaceful nation is better than one at war with itself. 

The real tipping point to me is when the world decides to move passed the dollar. When it's decided the dollar is no longer the worlds reserve currency and the paper becomes quite worthless. James Rawles second or third book about the soldier trying so hard to get home after such a collapse had decent illustrations of how that could go. Hyper inflation or massive deflation.


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## jro1

when all the Fat, rich, Greedy leftist libtards all decide to move to the east coast, could result in a tipping point


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## rebroome

Whooooa!!!...Hadn't thought of that possibility. So....what going to be left of California?


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## tango

We are circling the drain.
Where is the stopper?


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## rebroome

tango said:


> We are circling the drain.
> Where is the stopper?


Yeah...But in your opinion what is the trigger? What pushes us over the edge? All of get it that things are really ****ed up in general. What starts the downward death spiral with such speed and velocity that we cannot pull the stick back and get out of it before we crash and burn in a smoking heap?

Is it going to be a confrontation with Russia over the Ukraine next week?

We know the Russians are getting rid of our dollars.

Is it an economic collapse next week because China quits buying our debt to placate the Russians?

Is it Texas deciding to secede from the union?

is it one more damn abuse of power by the government that makes all of us finally stand up and say "ENOUGH!"and refuse to cooperate any more?

What do you think it is?


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## inceptor

Rigged for Quiet said:


> We may soon see if our foreign policy leads to dire domestic economic straights. If the EU/Germany and the US follow though with sanctions against Russia both China and Russia may accelerate our economic decay.
> 
> *Certai9n alphabet soup agencies becoming more brazen, such as in Connecticut, could be a flash point as well*.


You mean like this?

ATF Raids US Marine's Business - Ares Armor Targeted For Legally Selling AR-15's - YouTube


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## SAR-1L

I am certain we are already past the tipping point.

Only 50 - 58% of Americans are working. Half of those working make less than 27,000$ a year.

Here is something to think about:

- 314 million Americans
- roughly 1/2 work which is 157 million
- 1/2 of those working make less than 27k a year.

This means 50% of our country make nothing.
1/4 of americans or 78 million of our people make a combined total of only 212 billion dollars each year.

US Annual Expendatures:
- 37$ billion in year foreign aid.
- 172$ billion in unemployment aid.
- 49$ billion in housing aid
- 108$ billion in foodstamps

*Est. 366$ Billion - roughly 1 1/2 times what 3/4 of our country makes in a year.*
( 2/4 of Americans earning 0$ + 1/4 of Americans making 212b$)

By the way things aren't improving... and this doesn't include cost of Obamacare.


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## rebroome

SAR-1L said:


> I am certain we are already past the tipping point.
> 
> Only 50 - 58% of Americans are working. Half of those working make less than 27,000$ a year.
> 
> Here is something to think about:
> 
> - 314 million Americans
> - roughly 1/2 work which is 157 million
> - 1/2 of those working make less than 27k a year.
> 
> This means 50% of our country make nothing.
> 1/4 of americans or 78 million of our people make a combined total of only 212 billion dollars each year.
> 
> US Annual Expendatures:
> - 37$ billion in year foreign aid.
> - 172$ billion in unemployment aid.
> - 49$ billion in housing aid
> - 108$ billion in foodstamps
> 
> *Est. 366$ Billion - roughly 1 1/2 times what 3/4 of our country makes in a year.*
> ( 2/4 of Americans earning 0$ + 1/4 of Americans making 212b$)
> 
> By the way things aren't improving... and this doesn't include cost of Obamacare.


So, if we accept your premise (which I am not going to find fault with, all good points) do you think the downward death spiral has started? What do you believe is the evidence that it has started. Or...are we on the edge of the precipice and can still save ourselves?


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## Rigged for Quiet

I don't think any states are going to assert their sovereignity until it really starts to crumble. It is intersting though that Oklahoma just passed a bill dclaring themselves a soveriegn state, joining Texas, Utah, Montana, and I believe just recently Alabama as the only states to get a resolution through the legislature and have the governor sign it. There are over 40 states working on similar legislation under the 10th Amendment.

It's mostly just symbolic though.


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## rebroome

Rigged for Quiet said:


> I don't think any states are going to assert their sovereignity until it really starts to crumble. It is intersting though that Oklahoma just passed a bill dclaring themselves a soveriegn state, joining Texas, Utah, Montana, and I believe just recently Alabama as the only states to get a resolution through the legislature and have the governor sign it. There are over 40 states working on similar legislation under the 10th Amendment.
> 
> It's mostly just symbolic though.


Until it is not symbolic.


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## Rigged for Quiet

SAR-1L said:


> I am certain we are already past the tipping point.
> 
> Only 50 - 58% of Americans are working. Half of those working make less than 27,000$ a year.
> 
> Here is something to think about:
> 
> - 314 million Americans
> - roughly 1/2 work which is 157 million
> - 1/2 of those working make less than 27k a year.
> 
> This means 50% of our country make nothing.
> 1/4 of americans or 78 million of our people make a combined total of only 212 billion dollars each year.
> 
> US Annual Expendatures:
> - 37$ billion in year foreign aid.
> - 172$ billion in unemployment aid.
> - 49$ billion in housing aid
> - 108$ billion in foodstamps
> 
> *Est. 366$ Billion - roughly 1 1/2 times what 3/4 of our country makes in a year.*
> ( 2/4 of Americans earning 0$ + 1/4 of Americans making 212b$)
> 
> By the way things aren't improving... and this doesn't include cost of Obamacare.


Let us not forget the exploding number of Federal employees when you count working Americans. For the most part, they are a zero sum addition considering our tax dollars make up their salary.


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## SAR-1L

rebroome said:


> So, if we accept your premise (which I am not going to find fault with, all good points) do you think the downward death spiral has started? What do you believe is the evidence that it has started. Or...are we on the edge of the precipice and can still save ourselves?


Well my figures don't include all the government to corporate subsidies but if the government is giving away more than 3/4th of the country makes per year, it is getting it from the last 1/4th which will either leave or eventually be sucked dry. When all the money is gone everyone else is left to starve and die. If you can't feed your family, if you can't get what you need... game over.


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## rebroome

SAR-1L said:


> Well my figures don't include all the government to corporate subsidies but if the government is giving away more than 3/4th of the country makes per year, it is getting it from the last 1/4th which will either leave or eventually be sucked dry. When all the money is gone everyone else is left to starve and die. If you can't feed your family, if you can't get what you need... game over.


How close are we to game over?


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## SAR-1L

rebroome said:


> So, if we accept your premise (which I am not going to find fault with, all good points) do you think the downward death spiral has started? What do you believe is the evidence that it has started. Or...are we on the edge of the precipice and can still save ourselves?


I believe it is already over cause, by this point check mate. The government will take from us and give to everyone else to ensure dominance and control through stripping our self sufficiency away.

There is so few of us willing to do anything, the rest is sucking government balls in order to stay alive already. We are preset towards SHTF to being the only way to reset the problem now.
No one wants SHTF so there for we have already lost the battle for our freedoms, or we can all enjoy starving to death due to the fact less than 6% of Americans have basic survival skills.


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## rebroome

SAR-1L said:


> I believe it is already over cause, by this point check mate. The government will take from us and give to everyone else to ensure dominance and control through stripping our self sufficiency away.
> 
> There is so few of us willing to do anything, the rest is sucking government balls in order to stay alive already. We are preset towards SHTF to being the only way to reset the problem now.
> No one wants SHTF so there for we have already lost the battle for our freedoms, or we can all enjoy starving to death due to the fact less than 6% of Americans have basic survival skills.


We have elections next fall. Do you think it pointless to support a candidate. To vote? To raise hell until we get things right?


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## SAR-1L

rebroome said:


> We have elections next fall. Do you think they it pointless to support a candidate. To vote? To raise hell until we get things right?


You are joking right? Everyone elected to power is there to ensure those in power stay in power, to maintain status quo. Elect 100 different people, nominate 1,000 guys, the only people that will ever make it to the ballot is those
who will serve the interest of those with everything already. It isn't conspiracy either, it just is how it is, and they are open and public about it, cause they aren't afraid of us.

*Edit:* How fair and democratic or fair and republic for the people do you think this country would stay in the state of emergency, we would be bombed, shot in the streets and everything else 
just like any other country atm. In the end those in power will fight, kill and massacre to stay in power, the interest of you and I don't matter shit to them.

Note: Thanks to all the new laws, bills, etc... The government essentially owns everything we have. They can come take your weapons, guns, food, anything and everything. Unless you can stop them.
Which you won't not by yourself, and even if you were a strong community, they would just bomb your town rather than send in troops. If you were a state organized and succeeded, they would probably
rolling even heavier with the military and drones. It would take a full scale civil war to keep the government from taking everything we own, and we aren't as hardened as we once were.

We don't have the skills to provide for ourselves as we used to... most of us will die if it ever comes to that.


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## rebroome

SAR-1L said:


> You are joking right? Everyone elected to power is there to ensure those in power stay in power, to maintain status quo. Elect 100 different people, nominate 1,000 guys, the only people that will ever make it to the ballot is those
> who will serve the interest of those with everything already. It isn't conspiracy either, it just is how it is, and they are open and public about it, cause they aren't afraid of us.
> 
> Note: Thanks to all the new laws, bills, etc... The government essentially owns everything we have. They can come take your weapons, guns, food, anything and everything. Unless you can stop them.
> Which you won't not by yourself, and even if you were a strong community, they would just bomb your town rather than send in troops. If you were a state organized and succeeded, they would probably
> rolling even heavier with the military and drones. It would take a full scale civil war to keep the government from taking everything we own, and we aren't as hardened as we once were.
> 
> We don't have the skills to provide for ourselves as we used to... most of us will die if it ever comes to that.


So...you have given up? Can't change anything? Are helpless?


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## rebroome

Maybe the "tipping point" will be that good people just quit trying to right the wrongs and fight the good fight. If you just lay down and quit, you dishonor all who came before us. Those men and women who put their lives and fortunes on the line for America, and whose shoulders we all stand on.

If we do this...then it is over.


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## Rigged for Quiet

rebroome said:


> Maybe the "tipping point" will be that good people just quit trying to right the wrongs and fight the good fight. If you just lay down and quit, you dishonor all who came before us. Those men and women who put their lives and fortunes on the line for America, and whose shoulders we all stand on.
> 
> If we do this...then it is over.


I agree. I think the knowledge that there are those who will not go gentle into the final good night of our freedom does make a difference. Yes, as a percentage we may be small, but in shear numbers we still matter.

I will not give in.


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## rebroome

Rigged for Quiet said:


> I agree. I think the knowledge that there are those who will not go gentle into the final good night of our freedom does make a difference. Yes, as a percentage we may be small, but in shear numbers we still matter.
> 
> I will not give in.


Me either. Not while I still draw a breath. I would feel I had betrayed everything I believe in.


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## SAR-1L

It isn't about giving up, it is about timing...

The problem is this, currently people while miserable will not risk their lives for more freedom, 
cause they for most part pacified by food, shelter, and clean water that is government provided.

It isn't yet bad enough that the majority will support you if you go against the government.
The current mindset is that any disruption puts their free "food, water, shelter" at risk.

This makes you an enemy, to the majority, cause you threaten their current lifestyle.
You will be fought against by your own neighbors, friends and family as they will
see you as a terrorist traitor.

Where is if you wait until the government can no longer provide those things,
people are starving, people don't have clean water, or they are without shelter...

They are more willing to fight cause they have nothing to lose, and also rather than
you being the enemy, you are now their Ally cause you are fighting to get back
what they have already lost, rather than potentially taking something away from them.


The strategic difference here is the timing means you will either have half a nation fighting with or against you...


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## rebroome

SAR-1L said:


> It isn't about giving up, it is about timing...
> 
> The problem is this, currently people while miserable will not risk their lives for more freedom,
> cause they for most part pacified by food, shelter, and clean water that is government provided.
> 
> It isn't yet bad enough that the majority will support you if you go against the government.
> The current mindset is that any disruption puts their free "food, water, shelter" at risk.
> 
> This makes you an enemy, to the majority, cause you threaten their current lifestyle.
> You will be fought against by your own neighbors, friends and family as they will
> see you as a terrorist traitor.
> 
> Where is if you wait until the government can no longer provide those things,
> people are starving, people don't have clean water, or they are without shelter...
> 
> They are more willing to fight cause they have nothing to lose, and also rather than
> you being the enemy, you are now their Ally cause you are fighting to get back
> what they have already lost, rather than potentially taking something away from them.
> 
> The strategic difference here is the timing means you will either have half a nation fighting with or against you...


I do not accept your premise that democracy is already dead and we would have to fight. We can still organize and vote. If you don't believe that, wait a few months until your TV channels are overwhelmed with so many commercials for candidates that you reach the point you don't think you can stand to watch that same ad for the 50th time in a row. That you want to put your foot in the TV screen. Our vote still matters some. We still have some leverage...if we choose to use it.


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## SAR-1L

rebroome said:


> I do not accept your premise that democracy is already dead and we would have to fight. We can still organize and vote. If you don't believe that, wait a few months until your TV channels are overwhelmed with so many commercials for candidates that you reach the point you don't think you can stand to watch that same ad for the 50th time in a row. That you want to put your foot in the TV screen. Our vote still matters some. We still have some leverage...if we choose to use it.


You don't have to accept my premise for it to be potentially true, that you are voting for three different faces of the same devil.
Let me ask you how good your vote has done you in the past 10 - 15 years?

Better yet convince me that any member of congress which goes in rich, makes 142,000$ per year, and comes out in a
lucrative position as a lobby'ist for corporate interest,

1. Cares about your struggle.
2. Truly understands the pain you go through to put food on the table for your family.

Lets get one thing straight, your representative doesn't know you by name, wouldn't come to your funeral if you die tomorrow,
oh and... He definitely doesn't care about you. What he does care about is your vote, his position of power, and the money 
he makes, first and foremost his own self interest.

But why does he need to help you when he can buy other peoples votes cheaper. All he has to do is take 100 dollars out of your
pocket and give each dollar to 100 others in order to make your vote not count, and to ensure he stays elected.

Do I believe my votes count, no... they are bought, with government programs.
Do I believe those in power will give up power, no they will see us all burn in hell before they would give an inch...
unless they can gain a mile of ground some where else on their agenda.


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## Pir8fan

rebroome said:


> How close are we to game over?


We're there. There are too many people dependent on the government with no incentive to do anything for themselves. Currently, 60% of people receiving some sort of payment are getting that payment from a governmental source (includes federal, state and local payments). That means that only 40% are essentially paying for everyone. That is simply not sustainable. The lack of incentive built into the system means that the downward spiral isn't reversible. I'm nearly 60. I can't tell you how glad I am that I won't be around in another 30-40 years. The sad reality is that we baby boomers are completely responsible. We inherited the most powerful, wealthiest nation in history and destroyed it through our own self centered greed.


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## Rigged for Quiet

Pir8fan said:


> We're there. There are too many people dependent on the government with no incentive to do anything for themselves. Currently, 60% of people receiving some sort of payment are getting that payment from a governmental source (includes federal, state and local payments). That means that only 40% are essentially paying for everyone. That is simply not sustainable. The lack of incentive built into the system means that the downward spiral isn't reversible. I'm nearly 60. I can't tell you how glad I am that I won't be around in another 30-40 years. The sad reality is that we baby boomers are completely responsible. We inherited the most powerful, wealthiest nation in history and destroyed it through our own self centered greed.


My kids are in their 20's and my granddaughter is 2. This why we don't give up.


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## Pir8fan

rebroome said:


> I do not accept your premise that democracy is already dead and we would have to fight. We can still organize and vote. If you don't believe that, wait a few months until your TV channels are overwhelmed with so many commercials for candidates that you reach the point you don't think you can stand to watch that same ad for the 50th time in a row. That you want to put your foot in the TV screen. Our vote still matters some. We still have some leverage...if we choose to use it.


Do you seriously believe this? Please tell me which elected official represents us? My answer is that none of them do. Once elected, they represent themselves, exclusively. We still go through the charade of elections simply because it serves their purpose. It doesn't mean we shouldn't participate, it just means it doesn't matter.


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## rebroome

Pir8fan said:


> Do you seriously believe this? Please tell me which elected official represents us? My answer is that none of them do. Once elected, they represent themselves, exclusively. We still go through the charade of elections simply because it serves their purpose. It doesn't mean we shouldn't participate, it just means it doesn't matter.


I believe you either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way of people who have the guts to try to make a difference for the rest of us. Who try to honor the sacrifices of those who came before us. Who want things better for their children or grandchildren. What I don't believe in is just sitting on the sidelines and accepting defeat before I even try.


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## oddapple

Hmmm....omuzzy's been desperate for a war or plague or bomb where he can secure his self as dictator and no more voting. I'm not so sure you'll make it to November with your ballet? I guess we'll have to see, but the more the trashacrat party loses, monkey boy's gonna get nervous and try (yet another) move for total control. He has already "signed" his self total domination, all he's waiting for is that beautiful bomb....or the like (it would be just like the pos to say "oh! The lights went out! I'm emperor! Dang china!" - that's him to a tee)


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## Pir8fan

rebroome said:


> I believe you either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way of people who have the guts to try to make a difference for the rest of us. Who try to honor the sacrifices of those who came before us. Who want things better for their children or grandchildren. What I don't believe in is just sitting on the sidelines and accepting defeat before I even try.


I agree with that. I just don't believe our political system allows for that anymore. I firmly believe that we can change things, just not with our vote. I've not accepted defeat. I merely have no faith in the political process as an agent for that change. I'm a firm believer that our two party system is the main source of our problems. Many years ago I started a voting rule that I've followed since. No liberals and no incumbent gets my vote. In my opinion every elected official in DC is guilty of treason.


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## Rigged for Quiet

oddapple said:


> Hmmm....omuzzy's been desperate for a war or plague or bomb where he can secure his self as dictator and no more voting. I'm not so sure you'll make it to November with your ballet? I guess we'll have to see, but the more the trashacrat party loses, monkey boy's gonna get nervous and try (yet another) move for total control. He has already "signed" his self total domination, all he's waiting for is that beautiful bomb....or the like (it would be just like the pos to say "oh! The lights went out! I'm emperor! Dang china!" - that's him to a tee)


Either the ballot box or a roof top, either way vote.


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## pakrat

I don’t believe that my vote can dramatically change things or turn the trend around, but I do believe that it can either slow or accelerate the process of decay. If the process can be slowed down (if only by continuously putting new people in place) it buys time to explore other options or to build strategies and networks for effective preparation and response.

Delay the attack and dig another foxhole.


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## rebroome

Pir8fan said:


> I agree with that. I just don't believe our political system allows for that anymore. I firmly believe that we can change things, just not with our vote. I've not accepted defeat. I merely have no faith in the political process as an agent for that change. I'm a firm believer that our two party system is the main source of our problems. Many years ago I started a voting rule that I've followed since. No liberals and no incumbent gets my vote. In my opinion every elected official in DC is guilty of treason.


So let me offer this. The tipping point is the corruption of our political process, and the cause and effect of it, which I do agree is truer than most people realize. (Also, I really like your voting rules.)


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## rebroome

pakrat said:


> I don't believe that my vote can dramatically change things or turn the trend around, but I do believe that it can either slow or accelerate the process of decay. If the process can be slowed down (if only by continuously putting new people in place) it buys time to explore other options or to build strategies and networks for effective preparation and response.
> 
> Delay the attack and dig another foxhole.


Yeah. It is something at least. Shit happens. Opportunities present themselves. You never know.


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## inceptor

rebroome said:


> I believe you either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way of people who have the guts to try to make a difference for the rest of us. Who try to honor the sacrifices of those who came before us.


One of my favorite sayings. I don't roll over easily and play dead. I'm too damn stubborn for that. But the other side of that coin is there are less than a handful of politicians I believe and trust anymore.

Depending on the situation I have no problem leading. The issue here is I don't know enough to lead anyone anywhere. In this case I have no problem following. That is following slowly as I get older.

On another thread we were discussing hero's. Well, here is the opportunity for someone to step up and lead. We need someone to who will fight the status quo. Someone who is NOT out to make themselves rich and powerful. Someone who believes in the Constitution and personal freedom. Sorry Colonel but without this, I don't see how we can win.

We could grow our economy by leaps and bounds without all the govt regulations imposed on business. The EU is afraid that if they impose sanctions on Russia right now, Putin will turn off the gas. We could supply their oil and gas except for our govt. So, we rely on others such as Mexico, Canada, Venezuela and OPEC. The EU is stuck with Russia and the Middle East. Someone posted on another thread that the EU has stockpiles. Those stockpiles would not last them a week.

If we had politicians that believed in our country we wouldn't be forcing companies to move to other countries. Look how hard it was to get Apple to consider building their product in the US. Will it last long? I doubt it. Our govt believes they have to control everything about business. The govt decrees enough regulations that few could comply. Many people who started businesses earlier said they would not and could not do it now. Here is an example.

Subway Founder Blasts Gov?t Regulations: ?Subway Would Not Exist? If I Started My Business Today | Video | TheBlaze.com

Add to that the unions. The left will do anything to promote unions, it's good for them at election time. Foreign automakers building in the US don't have unions because they treat their employee's like people, not sheep. Unions would drag them down so the employee's keep voting down the union. VW just encouraged the UAW in one of their plants and the UAW was defeated by a landslide.


----------



## SAR-1L

rebroome said:


> I believe you either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way of people who have the guts to try to make a difference for the rest of us. Who try to honor the sacrifices of those who came before us. Who want things better for their children or grandchildren. What I don't believe in is just sitting on the sidelines and accepting defeat before I even try.


From the beginning of your questions I could see you were heading towards this statement 
If you want to accuse me of giving up, you are gravely mistaken...

You think your balls to the wall attitude makes you bullet proof, makes you break cuffs, and bend prison bars?
Don't be foolish, If you want to win you gotta be smart, you gotta know when to move, and how to move.

It isn't about not having guts... I can't name the amount of men that lost their guts, gloating about them.

Lets be specifically clear here. Anything you try right now, is a losing game, on just about every level.
You really want to make a difference, be patient, think with your head, and plan long term.

You don't have to believe a damn word I say, but every bit of it is simple and real... no bullshit.


----------



## rebroome

SAR-1L said:


> From the beginning of your questions I could see you were heading towards this statement
> If you want to accuse me of giving up, you are gravely mistaken...
> 
> You think your balls to the wall attitude makes you bullet proof, makes you break cuffs, and bend prison bars?
> Don't be foolish, If you want to win you gotta be smart, you gotta know when to move, and how to move.
> 
> It isn't about not having guts... I can't name the amount of men that lost their guts, gloating about them.
> 
> Lets be specifically clear here. Anything you try right now, is a losing game, on just about every level.
> You really want to make a difference, be patient, think with your head, and plan long term.
> 
> You don't have to believe a damn word I say, but every bit of it is simple and real... no bullshit.


Well...I am just happy you were not around in 1776.


----------



## oddapple

He was, that's why we won. I understand the risks of waiting for the time, like life going by and time never comes yet we lose more and more. I am very vocal all the time, but I think the first move is obama&cartel's and ALL they have been doing is padding up and biding time. But his hand will be forced before regular citizens is. He has growing dislike and November coming up - he either has to find a way to wipe the grin off most of the country or, he'll be powerless the rest of his way out if not sooner. 
I see what you both are saying. I am getting ready now and moving toward being ready "in a minute", man...


----------



## rebroome

oddapple said:


> He was, that's why we won. I understand the risks of waiting for the time, like life going by and time never comes yet we lose more and more. I am very vocal all the time, but I think the first move is obama&cartel's and ALL they have been doing is padding up and biding time. But his hand will be forced before regular citizens is. He has growing dislike and November coming up - he either has to find a way to wipe the grin off most of the country or, he'll be powerless the rest of his way out if not sooner.
> I see what you both are saying. I am getting ready now and moving toward being ready "in a minute", man...


If he was we would all be speaking with a British accent and having some tea around right now.


----------



## SAR-1L

rebroome said:


> Well...I am just happy you were not around in 1776.


So nice to become the focus of your jabs.

How do you suppose you would win?
You going to go Rambo your way to victory, 
with no plan and people will just magically follow you?

There is a merit to both action and thinking and a balance of both.

However there is no merit to be had for foolish men like yourself who 
believe you and the cock in your hand is going to make the world surrender.

Especially those left holding nothing but their cock cause they chose
to insult those who would help them, over petty differences in approach.


----------



## oddapple

I guess I must have missed something....there do seem to be plenty "petty differences" and I hope people can see that is how division gives the rat crew advantage.


----------



## rebroome

SAR-1L said:


> So nice to become the focus of your jabs.
> 
> How do you suppose you would win?
> You going to go Rambo your way to victory,
> with no plan and people will just magically follow you?
> 
> There is a merit to both action and thinking and a balance of both.
> 
> However there is no merit to be had for foolish men like yourself who
> believe you and the cock in your hand is going to make the world surrender.
> 
> Especially those left holding nothing but their cock cause they chose
> to insult those who would help them, over petty differences in approach.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." --Theodore Roosevelt


----------



## budgetprepp-n

I think it will be the day people see there children hungry for the first time.


----------



## oddapple

I no longer get it. Both of you are saying you are there, but....what does rebroome think a person should do right now?


----------



## Moonshinedave

Major EMP strike, either man-made or from a powerful solar flare. Shut down the power grid for a long period of time, things will get real bad, real fast.


----------



## oddapple

Moonshinedave said:


> Major EMP strike, either man-made or from a powerful solar flare. Shut down the power grid for a long period of time, things will get real bad, real fast.


They have been hyping that and it would be a way to create caos for the masses and obammy gets to be emperor. I wonder about that ploy a lot...


----------



## SAR-1L

oddapple said:


> I no longer get it. Both of you are saying you are there, but....what does rebroome think a person should do right now?


Well it comes down to this, I am just saying there is a time and a place, and that right now would be very difficult change
our current circumstances, which is a statement that several now have echo'ed.

Rebroome however, thinks he is going to win friends by calling me a coward, saying he is glad I didn't exist in 1776 during the
revolution and posting Theodore Roosevelt quotes.

@ Rebroome - It is fine if you disagree with me, however, calling people cowards, acting like a hotshot, and trying to 
state that the world is better off when fellow forum members didn't exist at key times in the world all cause you don't
like what they have to say about the current state of things isn't what this forum is for.

You don't like what I have to say fine, but your last few replies towards me are pretty shitty display of character
towards another on the same side.


----------



## inceptor

SAR-1L said:


> So nice to become the focus of your jabs.
> 
> How do you suppose you would win?
> You going to go Rambo your way to victory,
> with no plan and people will just magically follow you?
> 
> There is a merit to both action and thinking and a balance of both.
> 
> However there is no merit to be had for foolish men like yourself who
> believe you and the cock in your hand is going to make the world surrender.
> 
> Especially those left holding nothing but their cock cause they chose
> to insult those who would help them, over petty differences in approach.


One thing I can tell you is it won't be us old folks. Just paying attention, he is older than me. At least I think so and I am 61. My fighting days are over. 20 years ago I could have done my fair share. Not anymore. It's you youngin's that have to pick up the battle if there is going to be one. I will hold my own here but being a commando is out of the question at this point for me.

As to lead, follow or get out of the way, it appears you have chosen to get out of the way for now. Or have I misread your comments?


----------



## Mish

MR liking one of my comments!!


----------



## inceptor

Mish said:


> MR liking one of my comments!!


If and when that happens, I'll be taking cover.


----------



## SAR-1L

inceptor said:


> As to lead, follow or get out of the way, it appears you have chosen to get out of the way for now. Or have I misread your comments?


Inceptor, Not sure if you saw this post of mine -http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-prepper-survival-talk/7880-what-will-tipping-point-america-4.html#post124416

My statement was never, lay down and die as Rebroome is accusing me of.
Anyone with a head on their shoulders knows there is a time when you have strategic
advantages and disadvantages.

I don't think I deserve Rebroome calling me a coward, and stating he is glad that I 
didn't exist at x time, just cause he disagrees with my what I have to say.


----------



## Moonshinedave

oddapple said:


> They have been hyping that and it would be a way to create caos for the masses and obammy gets to be emperor. I wonder about that ploy a lot...


Not sure I make the same connections, but in a couple years if they (politicians) start speaking of removing term limits on the presidents, then be afraid, be very afraid.


----------



## inceptor

SAR-1L said:


> Inceptor, Not sure if you saw this post of mine -http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-prepper-survival-talk/7880-what-will-tipping-point-america-4.html#post124416
> 
> My statement was never, lay down and die as Rebroome is accusing me of.
> Anyone with a head on their shoulders knows there is a time when you have strategic
> advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> I don't think I deserve Rebroome calling me a coward, and stating he is glad that I
> didn't exist at x time, just cause he disagrees with my what I have to say.


I think laying down and dying is only an option for maybe one or two here, not either you or I. I would not even believe you are a coward. My thought was you have decided to step to the side to see what happens. That is getting out of the way.

Like I posted on the hero thread. I'm waiting for someone to step up to the plate and lead. I know there is someone out there but it sure ain't me. The longer that person waits, the harder it will be.


----------



## oddapple

SAR-1L said:


> Inceptor, Not sure if you saw this post of mine -http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-prepper-survival-talk/7880-what-will-tipping-point-america-4.html#post124416
> 
> My statement was never, lay down and die as Rebroome is accusing me of.
> Anyone with a head on their shoulders knows there is a time when you have strategic
> advantages and disadvantages.
> 
> I don't think I deserve Rebroome calling me a coward, and stating he is glad that I
> didn't exist at x time, just cause he disagrees with my what I have to say.


At this point, I'm just...?....all that just seemed like some brainwashing effort or something? That's why I asked if it was really just third party canvassing or obamaganda? That's a tactic, calling someone stupid over and over in the hopes that by asserting even the kookiest thing over and over the person will break down?
All I know is, I'll take that colorado boy any day. I'm old, powerful and weigh....150 lbs ahahaha! We have enough geeks to power a city and run it's hospital, but most of us about 150Lbs...we're squirrels I say! Plus, anybody who would turn down a sargeant is like "darwin" - too dumb to live ahahaha!


----------



## rebroome

oddapple said:


> At this point, I'm just...?....all that just seemed like some brainwashing effort or something? That's why I asked if it was really just third party canvassing or obamaganda? That's a tactic, calling someone stupid over and over in the hopes that by asserting even the kookiest thing over and over the person will break down?
> All I know is, I'll take that colorado boy any day. I'm old, powerful and weigh....150 lbs ahahaha! We have enough geeks to power a city and run it's hospital, but most of us about 150Lbs...we're squirrels I say! Plus, anybody who would turn down a sargeant is like "darwin" - too dumb to live ahahaha!


I think you and "Colorado Boy" will make a lovely couple.


----------



## Pir8fan

pakrat said:


> I don't believe that my vote can dramatically change things or turn the trend around, but I do believe that it can either slow or accelerate the process of decay. If the process can be slowed down (if only by continuously putting new people in place) it buys time to explore other options or to build strategies and networks for effective preparation and response.
> 
> Delay the attack and dig another foxhole.


The problem is that we don't put new people in place. Well over 90% of incumbents are re-elected. The surest sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and then expecting different results. Our voting results fit that definition precisely. As a nation, we've gone nuts. Want proof? Just watch the evening news.


----------



## oddapple

rebroome said:


> I think you and "Colorado Boy" will make a lovely couple.


Ok, you won't answer simple questions which means you're completely full of it, you try false argument tactics which means you're either feckless and not worth listening to or you are an obamaganda shill and now you are trying to be plain nasty in a way hat is supposed to make you look right or bigger or something?
But from where I sit, all you've done is say "I have no useful skills or intent. I lie for a living and I demand you be stupid and facilitate my unskilled, worthless obamanite life and btw, I got some juicy guy things runnin' around in my juvenile schitzy head so "***!" Neener neener!
Because whoever your group is? You just made sure they don't have two professional people, blue pajamas and green, so you can enjoy the reality obama and other "but i have a brilliant personality!" people will very soon.
You just have not made one bit of sense this whole time and I'm not asking for clarity hence forth, I'm just gonna ignore you. You're just another part of the problem and can only irritate serious people.


----------



## StarPD45

jro1 said:


> when all the Fat, rich, Greedy leftist libtards all decide to move to the east coast, could result in a tipping point


You mean the country capsizing, like that idiot congressman said about the island?


----------



## Maine-Marine

What will cause the collapse...

Economy, starvation, pandemic

Once the dollar collapses - we will have little to no food/gas distribution - once we have a lack of food we will see riots and deaths - once we have riots and deaths we will have sickness and pandemic.

The timing of the first events will determine how things roll out...if it happens in summer or fall...you will see many unprepared people heading south to warmer areas.
If it happens in winter... there will be a large and quick die off in the north and the south will be spared a large influx of unprepared people... Spring and summer will see a large up tick in illness.

My Advise..when you see a peace treaty with Israel and the temple being rebuilt....start kicking your food preps into high gear


----------



## StarPD45

rebroome said:


> Yeah...But in your opinion what is the trigger? What pushes us over the edge? All of get it that things are really ****ed up in general. What starts the downward death spiral with such speed and velocity that we cannot pull the stick back and get out of it before we crash and burn in a smoking heap?
> 
> Is it going to be a confrontation with Russia over the Ukraine next week?
> 
> We know the Russians are getting rid of our dollars.
> 
> Is it an economic collapse next week because China quits buying our debt to placate the Russians?
> 
> Is it Texas deciding to secede from the union?
> 
> is it one more damn abuse of power by the government that makes all of us finally stand up and say "ENOUGH!"and refuse to cooperate any more?
> 
> What do you think it is?


China is already slowly ridding itself of our phony money. They are buying up hard assets here such as buildings and businesses, some quite large.

Many countries are already dealing with each other without first converting to dollars. This includes Australia, among many others.

If we lose our dollar's status as the reserve currency of the world, which is getting much closer, we will see something that would make the great depression look like a walk in the park.

Whether that leads inflation or deflation isn't known for sure. In either case the EBT cards will soon quit working, welfare checks won't come, SS checks won't come, government annuities will stop.

More than likely the banks will close, and the credit cards won't work.

There will then be battle lines drawn between the "haves" and the "have nots".

I think the riots will start in the big cities first, and then spread.

So yes, I think it will be economics that start it.


----------



## inceptor

I still think it will be the economy. But what could possibly trigger it is this admin.

I just watched the Glenn Beck vid that Lance posted. I have known about this issue for a while now. Germany is not the only one who wants their gold back. Google it, what you find will be interesting. Venezuela also wants it's gold back. Russia has done the same thing with the gold they stored for others like Venezuela. Russia knows what happened here and they could trigger the collapse just by publicizing it with proof. Down we go. The dollar becomes worthless.


----------



## Mike45

What will actually do it is hard to tell, but we are definitely balanced on the tip of a needle right now.


----------



## rebroome

inceptor said:


> I still think it will be the economy. But what could possibly trigger it is this admin.
> 
> I just watched the Glenn Beck vid that Lance posted. I have known about this issue for a while now. Germany is not the only one who wants their gold back. Google it, what you find will be interesting. Venezuela also wants it's gold back. Russia has done the same thing with the gold they stored for others like Venezuela. Russia knows what happened here and they could trigger the collapse just by publicizing it with proof. Down we go. The dollar becomes worthless.


1 agree. I think the triggering event will be along the lines of some sort of currency collapse that goes out of control.


----------



## rebroome

rebroome said:


> 1 agree. I think the triggering event will be along the lines of some sort of currency collapse that goes out of control.


Or maybe something else.

State TV says Russia could turn US to 'radioactive ash'


----------



## SDF880

Time to remember all the duck and cover drills we did in school way back when.
I knew enough when I was 6 years old and crouching under my desk an atomic bomb is going to destroy 
me and why are we doing this?


----------



## rebroome

SDF880 said:


> Time to remember all the duck and cover drills we did in school way back when.
> I knew enough when I was 6 years old and crouching under my desk an atomic bomb is going to destroy
> me and why are we doing this?


Yes. Me too. Bend over. Grab your ankles and.....kiss your ass good bye.


----------



## inceptor

rebroome said:


> Or maybe something else.
> 
> State TV says Russia could turn US to 'radioactive ash'


Yeah, it could happen but I doubt it. 1st there would be no real point in doing it. 2nd when they launch, so would we.

I can tell you we are from a different generation in the way we see things. Some youngins here think a nuclear detonation wouldn't be much worse than a hellfire missile.


----------



## Boss Dog

Most will not even realize there is a tipping point until it capsizes.


----------



## kevin108

If all were lost already, we would not be seeing the massive efforts by the establishment to destroy the credibility and to suppress the voices of the Tea Party and Libertarians. These groups are friends of Liberty and the enemies of the oppressors.

That these groups are under such attack tells me that the Democrats and establishment Republicans see that while they may hold the high ground, it is not firm footing.


----------



## Silverback

Well, this is interesting to read. First I like both SAR and Rebroome and the perspectives they bring.

Reading Sar's statements, I believe he wants to take action but is waiting for the right moment, time or event to make it worth the loss he will sustain and so would I. Is that not what happened in 1776? Was the time not right to make that sacrifice? Did the heros and leaders stand and were seen! I would have followed then, I would follow anything I saw that I felt would save or improve this country now.

"2. The best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the absolute worst thing is nothing."

Sometimes waiting for the right thing, is doing something.

My view on the tipping point... recently my gifts to those I love have been tools. They can be used to carry, to hunt, to build and to defend. I have come to the point where I buy little to play with and more to survive with. Food Storage, Water, a Garden, a way out if I need it have all taken the forefront of my life. Why would I do this if I did not know deep down that there is simply too much going on NOW for this to continue. I think the boat is rocking, tipping just happens after you rock it just right.


----------



## BagLady

rebroome said:


> Yeah...But in your opinion what is the trigger? What pushes us over the edge? All of get it that things are really ****ed up in general. What starts the downward death spiral with such speed and velocity that we cannot pull the stick back and get out of it before we crash and burn in a smoking heap?
> 
> Is it going to be a confrontation with Russia over the Ukraine next week?
> 
> We know the Russians are getting rid of our dollars.
> 
> Is it an economic collapse next week because China quits buying our debt to placate the Russians?
> 
> Is it Texas deciding to secede from the union?
> 
> is it one more damn abuse of power by the government that makes all of us finally stand up and say "ENOUGH!"and refuse to cooperate any more?
> 
> What do you think it is?


I think many of the more populated area's will be blindsighted by the "Powers that BE", IE: Police State "management" of the masses, before they realize the SHTF. One cannot under estimate the fore-knowledge of our government. They will try to sustain the people first.


----------



## Montana Rancher

inceptor said:


> Yeah, it could happen but I doubt it. 1st there would be no real point in doing it. 2nd when they launch, so would we.
> 
> I can tell you we are from a different generation in the way we see things. Some youngins here think a nuclear detonation wouldn't be much worse than a hellfire missile.


Ok

Here is my response

I have been posting on the prepper forums for about a year, I think I have gained some trust as I am only putting out valuable information and helping out those that I can

My GUT feeling is that "inceptor" with his lame "mr magoo" sig is a troll.

This is just my many years of posting and the fact that he just showed up with (really 3000 posts?) and I have never heard of him?

Either he is the mummy that just decided to resurrect and is not upon us with more posts than anyone on the site or, (gasp) he is a troll

I know you will understand that I am skeptical of new posts (i.e. people that come on with 1x posts) but in this case I am saying bullshit, Inceptor you are also a troll


----------



## Rigged for Quiet

MR, not sure how you have missed Inceptor on the board, but has posted regularly/daily when I joined a year ago. I've met the man, and he is the real deal.

In fact, I bet you two have a lot more in common than a lot of folks on this board if I went with my gut feelings.


----------



## inceptor

Montana Rancher said:


> Ok
> 
> Here is my response
> 
> I have been posting on the prepper forums for about a year, I think I have gained some trust as I am only putting out valuable information and helping out those that I can
> 
> My GUT feeling is that "inceptor" with his lame "mr magoo" sig is a troll.
> 
> This is just my many years of posting and the fact that he just showed up with (really 3000 posts?) and I have never heard of him?
> 
> Either he is the mummy that just decided to resurrect and is not upon us with more posts than anyone on the site or, (gasp) he is a troll
> 
> I know you will understand that I am skeptical of new posts (i.e. people that come on with 1x posts) but in this case I am saying bullshit, Inceptor you are also a troll


:lol: And what part are you calling bs on??????????? Oh, and I have been here at least a couple of days.


----------



## Casie

Lots of ugly truth in this thread. It's depressing isn't it? When formed, our little upstart country had so much potential. Like the last property left on the Monopoly board ending up being the most valuable, we built something beautiful and unexpected!

Now in many ways our erosion of values and devaluation of currency echoes the fall of the Roman Empire. Perhaps we will not end with a bang, but with a long drawn out collapse. A merciful slow collapse like Rome endured, will finally end when the leftover scraps are annexed into new or foreign governments. 

In my heart of course I can't help but hope for a nation-wide American revival. But the logistics of turning our country around at this point is... somewhat ludicrous. Can you even imagine Americans demanding debt forgiveness (default) to wipe out our insurmountable debt and the return to a gold/silver backed currency? That's some hard medicine to have to swallow! (Like years of painful chemo to kill a cancer!) And imagine the arduous task of disassembling all those horribly corrupt government departments! 

But honestly, we are here and prepping because there are now too many warning signs and too much tension in the air to ignore. And even if much of the herd around us is still blissfully grazing head down, we find ourselves pacing, watching the tree line, and listening for noises in the wind. Our guts say something is coming to a head. And there are far too many of us, for us all to be crazy. Don't ya' think?


----------



## bushrat

Pir8fan said:


> Agreed. Our national debt is insurmountable and can never be repaid. Our government now views us as serfs. Once all of the people currently living on the public (whether it be social security recipients, welfare recipients, government employees or government retirees) are no longer receiving theirs, then you will see the chaos start. Remember the videos of the Wal-Mart when welfare cards weren't working? VIDEO: Welfare EBT users clear out Wal-Mart after EBT card glitchThe only reason we haven't descended into chaos yet is because the government is still making those payments. Sooner or later ( I believe sooner) those payments will stop.


I severely resent the implication that being on Social Security is the same as being on the dole. For over 40 years the government has taken by FORCE from my regular paychecks (yes, regular paychecks); unlike everyone else on the "dole" I worked everyday of every week for over 40 yrs. And they promised me they would give that money back in my later years. The fact that they screwed it up is NOT MY FAULT!! And I am sick and tired of everyone blaming me! And by the way, I did not vote for the people that implemented S.S.!!


----------



## Rigged for Quiet

I agree with Bushrat. There _are_ legitimate social safety nets such SSI and/or SSI Disability. The problem is when legit programs become abuse such as they are now.

Hell, I salute my mailbox for my VA Disability benefits every month and I can damn sure promise ya I earned them the hard way.


----------



## Slippy

Montana Rancher said:


> Ok
> 
> Here is my response
> 
> I have been posting on the prepper forums for about a year, I think I have gained some trust as I am only putting out valuable information and helping out those that I can
> 
> My GUT feeling is that "inceptor" with his lame "mr magoo" sig is a troll.
> 
> This is just my many years of posting and the fact that he just showed up with (really 3000 posts?) and I have never heard of him?
> 
> Either he is the mummy that just decided to resurrect and is not upon us with more posts than anyone on the site or, (gasp) he is a troll
> 
> I know you will understand that I am skeptical of new posts (i.e. people that come on with 1x posts) but in this case I am saying bullshit, Inceptor you are also a troll


Montana Rancher,

How have you missed Inceptor? He did recently change his picture (I liked the old one better) but he has shown nothing less than to be a Patriot and Defender of the Constitution.


----------



## oddapple

Rigged for Quiet said:


> I agree with Bushrat. There _are_ legitimate social safety nets such SSI and/or SSI Disability. The problem is when legit programs become abuse such as they are now.
> 
> Hell, I salute my mailbox for my VA Disability benefits every month and I can damn sure promise ya I earned them the hard way.


Yes, so did my brother and right this minute vets are being intentionally punished by oscumma as leverage to bring his 100 million muslim invasion in the name of hispanics. Good luck. He just made it through another med-neglect death attept but he got lucky - the hospital here helps vets when they can because of what the va is doing here. Like enough neglect and they'll just die so michelle can buy servant number 89.


----------



## Pir8fan

bushrat said:


> I severely resent the implication that being on Social Security is the same as being on the dole. For over 40 years the government has taken by FORCE from my regular paychecks (yes, regular paychecks); unlike everyone else on the "dole" I worked everyday of every week for over 40 yrs. And they promised me they would give that money back in my later years. The fact that they screwed it up is NOT MY FAULT!! And I am sick and tired of everyone blaming me! And by the way, I did not vote for the people that implemented S.S.!!


Resent it all you want. The money you paid in went to other recipients. The money I'm paying is going to current recipients. It's a classic Ponzi scheme. The fact is that your current payment is coming from the public through the US Treasury, not a private enterprise. Therefore, you're receiving money from the public. I never equated Social Security with welfare. You made that assumption. I merely pointed out the recipients receiving funds from public sources. The ugly truth is that you are not currently producing goods or services in order to earn your social security payment.


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## Notsoyoung

I am sure you all aware of the old story about putting a frog in a pan and slowly turning up the heat. That is what I suspect might happen here. There won't be a specific time or event where everyone can point and say "this is when things went South". I think that it is more likely that it will be incremental and happen over an extended period of time.


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## Charles Martel

The tipping point occurred in 1913, when foreign banking interests determined to make us all slaves usurped control of our currency and legalized an unapportioned, direct tax on individual income. We have been on the road to absolute despotism since then. 

In terms of a modern tipping point, that came on November 4, 1999 when Bill Clinton and a Republican controlled congress worked together to repeal Glass Steagall. That set the stage for the housing/derivatives crash of 2008 and marked the beginning of the end of American dominance in the world economy. 

A larger collapse is inevitable as our debt mounts, our welfare and other social spending liabilities become more unsustainable (there are more people dependent on public food assistance than are employed full-time in the private sector...our current economy is designed to collapse under its own weight), and the world moves away from the dollar as the universal exchange currency (the petrodollar).

To answer your original question more directly...America is already well past the tipping point. The trap has already been sprung. What we are experiencing now is the short time it takes for the snare to quietly tighten around our collective necks. America as we know it cannot be saved. She is finished. The only thing that we can do now is try to save ourselves and those we love from what is certainly coming.


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## bigdogbuc

Perhaps it will be the ATF serving a search warrant against Ares Armor in spite of the restraining order prohibiting them from doing so. Imagine, a law enforcmeent agency BLATANTLY AND WILLFULLY ignoring a court order. Let alone the ATF???

This right here shows that our Executive Branch has nullified our Judicial Branch. They WILL do what they want without regard.


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## oddapple

Well Charles pretty much laid that out.
We have only been afloat this long through crunching down wealth and quality of life for citizens and wars. The micro is more people living more by unsustainable frraud than not. I too am afraid it is down to "can we make another day" or close. This month, too close...


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## oddapple

bigdogbuc said:


> Perhaps it will be the ATF serving a search warrant against Ares Armor in spite of the restraining order prohibiting them from doing so. Imagine, a law enforcmeent agency BLATANTLY AND WILLFULLY ignoring a court order. Let alone the ATF???
> 
> This right here shows that our Executive Branch has nullified our Judicial Branch. They WILL do what they want without regard.


Yup and that is a sign of desperation. (and muslim brohood if you ask me)


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## Old Seer

rebroome said:


> A popular idea, most recently in a book by Malcolm Gladwell, describes the phenomenon where things reach their boiling point, reach a critical mass and things boil over or go out of control. Others, long before Gladwell, described this kind of an event. This forum devotes so much to what we need to do to prepare for this, but&#8230;what do you think is the one thing or event, combined with the rest of what is going on in the world, that will put us over the tipping point and things spin out of control -- maybe permanently?
> 
> What will be the tipping point for America?
> 
> Our mounting debt?
> Our inability to govern and solve problems?
> Our weak foreign policy?
> The mounting evidence our intelligence community is spying on Americans?
> Tainted food (GMOs) and water supply (pollution)?
> Social engineering like Obama Care?
> Something else?
> 
> In other words, all the above contribute to this, but what will be the one triggering event that finally pops the cork?


 Not to worry--

We're here.  It's up to the individual to decide.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers.


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## Old Seer

Read and be freed. Spread the word.


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## PaulS

Take a look at this thread - a long hard look.

We are fighting among ourselves and belittling others for the way they prepare and how or when they will fight the repression of the government.

This is exactly how the tyrants will win. They use any means to drive wedges between people and get them to fight among themselves rather than allow the focus to be kept where it should be. 

History has shown that people will only fight when the oppression becomes personal. It should be personal when anyone is unjustly attacked. It should be personal now! We are forced to be searched, without a warrant, when we travel. We can't have communication that is protected by the first amendment. Our homes and businesses can be searched and raided on a whim by the federal police forces. 

We need to keep the focus where it belongs. The rights we are losing affect each of us personally. Our loss of freedoms affects each of us personally. I don't care if you are a millionaire or on welfare, if you are straight or gay, if you are white, black, Mexican, or Asian, if you are Christian, Jew, Islamic, pagan or atheist, we should all and each recognize that we stand together or we fall alone. 

Stay focused on the enemy and don't make enemies of those who share your plight. If you find yourself calling names or pointing out differences then you are doing the tyrants work for them. Stand united! Fight because it is personal!


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## oddapple

PaulS said:


> Take a look at this thread - a long hard look.
> 
> We are fighting among ourselves and belittling others for the way they prepare and how or when they will fight the repression of the government.
> 
> This is exactly how the tyrants will win. They use any means to drive wedges between people and get them to fight among themselves rather than allow the focus to be kept where it should be.
> 
> History has shown that people will only fight when the oppression becomes personal. It should be personal when anyone is unjustly attacked. It should be personal now! We are forced to be searched, without a warrant, when we travel. We can't have communication that is protected by the first amendment. Our homes and businesses can be searched and raided on a whim by the federal police forces.
> 
> We need to keep the focus where it belongs. The rights we are losing affect each of us personally. Our loss of freedoms affects each of us personally. I don't care if you are a millionaire or on welfare, if you are straight or gay, if you are white, black, Mexican, or Asian, if you are Christian, Jew, Islamic, pagan or atheist, we should all and each recognize that we stand together or we fall alone.
> 
> Stay focused on the enemy and don't make enemies of those who share your plight. If you find yourself calling names or pointing out differences then you are doing the tyrants work for them. Stand united! Fight because it is personal!


We're pretty sure we had a bamacommie troll and a third party canvasser, to show us some third parties are same or worse than we got, in this thread as well stirring and trying to "nudge".
In so far as those who think they are being "activists" on the thought that after this people they are afraid of or disdain will be gone - they had do better to be concerned about themselves. We don't see this assault on merely one section of society....


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## The Resister

rebroome said:


> A popular idea, most recently in a book by Malcolm Gladwell, describes the phenomenon where things reach their boiling point, reach a critical mass and things boil over or go out of control. Others, long before Gladwell, described this kind of an event. This forum devotes so much to what we need to do to prepare for this, but&#8230;what do you think is the one thing or event, combined with the rest of what is going on in the world, that will put us over the tipping point and things spin out of control -- maybe permanently?
> 
> What will be the tipping point for America?
> 
> Our mounting debt?
> Our inability to govern and solve problems?
> Our weak foreign policy?
> The mounting evidence our intelligence community is spying on Americans?
> Tainted food (GMOs) and water supply (pollution)?
> Social engineering like Obama Care?
> Something else?
> 
> In other words, all the above contribute to this, but what will be the one triggering event that finally pops the cork?


I just ran across this thread, so I'm a Johnny Come Lately to it, but FWIW:

Will there even be a triggering event? Look at America through the eyes of someone who has been active for over three decades:

We started out in my early years with social engineering. There were racial quotas, busing issues, hiring schemes to lock out white Americans, etc. We remained quiet and today,* EVERY* employer hires x number of non-whites, x number of homosexuals, x number of atheists, x number of people that speak a foreign language, etc. almost to the exclusion of native born American people. Television has the same policy with regards to the programs they give us to watch.

We watched the government outlaw foreign made weapons; under Reagan they outlawed the future manufacture of fully automatic weapons; Clinton did the so - called "_assault weapons ban_," and many states go after semi-auto weapons and / or the magazines. We have witnessed the Brady Bill / Lautenberg Amendment and the creation of prohibited classes of American citizens.

We've accepted Socialized Medicine, National ID / REAL ID Act, National Defense Authorization Act, the so - called "_Patriot Act_," and its subsequent womb to the tomb surveillance and war against Americans. The government controls the food supply and manipulates the money supply. Put into perspective:

Between 1789 and 1913 (the creation of the Federal Reserve Act) the U.S. owed 2.9 Billion Dollars. Today the U.S. owes over 17 TRILLION DOLLARS *AND* today the government spends MORE than 3 BILLION DOLLARS PER DAY. If I were to go on, this post would easily reach twenty five additional paragraphs. Unless we learn how to discuss the issues and make plans for the future, I think we won't see any tipping point, just global slavery.


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## Silverback

What tipping point?


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## Notsoyoung

Let's not forget the hordes of illegal aliens invading the country, swamping social services, the education system, demand more and more, and want signs and even official documents to be in their foreign languages. Look at the countries that they come from and see our future.


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## Deebo

The tipping point? When the American People stop allowing our own governement to sidestep the laws they put in place. When the atf kicks down the next door, and there is not a missing airplane to cover all the news. 
I am pretty sure that our founding fathers are F-ING ASHAMED of what WE have let this country become. 
The tipping point, most wont even know it, until they smell that "peculair almondy smell", right before they go night night.
Wake up, the tipping point is NOW. I have said it before, I feel like the old crazy guy carrying a placard that says "THE END IS HERE" and nobody is taking my warning.


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## The Resister

Deebo said:


> The tipping point? When the American People stop allowing our own governement to sidestep the laws they put in place. When the atf kicks down the next door, and there is not a missing airplane to cover all the news.
> I am pretty sure that our founding fathers are F-ING ASHAMED of what WE have let this country become.
> The tipping point, most wont even know it, until they smell that "peculair almondy smell", right before they go night night.
> Wake up, the tipping point is NOW. I have said it before, I feel like the old crazy guy carrying a placard that says "THE END IS HERE" and nobody is taking my warning.


Okay, let's say I'm with you. Do you have a plan?


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## Notsoyoung

How about when Congress passes laws and EXEMPTS themselves from them?


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## inceptor

Notsoyoung said:


> How about when Congress passes laws and EXEMPTS themselves from them?


OOPS! Didn't read it correctly. Never mind.


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## oddapple

That is why no one feels like anything is being done - our representatives can be coerced and ARE NOT doing anything about it. Barry sotero should never have been president and should have been gotten rid of months ago. Our leaders are the ones going along in it together. I don't know exactly what to do? But I know how to watch for opportunity and I believe even little things help. Looking for that place to establish med and bio supply/teaching hub and teaching 4 of us, others at distance.


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## Deebo

The Resister said:


> Okay, let's say I'm with you. Do you have a plan?


My only plan so far, was to be at whatever city I was In on July 4, and go to the politicians I could find and ask them why they have "sold the people out", but I am now thinking that on July 4, all politicians will be on a tax-payers paid day off, so I am going to try for July 1, 2014. I am set to meet my local sherrif, who believe it or not, seems to be a strong supporter of the Constituion, and a very outspoken individual. I have ZERO experience with this kind of thing, I have never done anything except "shut up and work", and pay taxes out the ass. 
Everyone seems to be waiting for something to happen, I just know that the America we are leaving our kids is WAY different than the America we want..


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## inceptor

The problem is that one person alone or just a few will be swept under the rug. That is unless you are The Resister. One or a few will be vilified and portrayed as nut jobs. Most of this country won't even pay attention.


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## The Resister

Deebo said:


> My only plan so far, was to be at whatever city I was In on July 4, and go to the politicians I could find and ask them why they have "sold the people out", but I am now thinking that on July 4, all politicians will be on a tax-payers paid day off, so I am going to try for July 1, 2014. I am set to meet my local sherrif, who believe it or not, seems to be a strong supporter of the Constituion, and a very outspoken individual. I have ZERO experience with this kind of thing, I have never done anything except "shut up and work", and pay taxes out the ass.
> Everyone seems to be waiting for something to happen, I just know that the America we are leaving our kids is WAY different than the America we want..


I've had the same frustrations, but have a few decades of experience. One method that DOES get results is to go to Town Hall Meetings if your U.S. Congressman holds them. If you get an opportunity there, speak out. Also, your County Commission may have one day per month that you can speak out publicly. If you were to challenge the small things, THAT does get noticed and can become fodder for the local newspaper.

We sometimes complain that nothing gets done, but we've grown too reliant on the Internet. The net has become a Good Old Boy network with clique groups. Subsequently little gets done except to break off into clique groups, fight amongst ourselves, and some even attempt to exclude others from relevant conversations. So, you have to find others of like mind and meet in smaller group settings. You discuss ways to be more effective in the legal and political arena. Then you employ the techniques.


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## Deebo

The Resister said:


> I've had the same frustrations, but have a few decades of experience. One method that DOES get results is to go to Town Hall Meetings if your U.S. Congressman holds them. If you get an opportunity there, speak out. Also, your County Commission may have one day per month that you can speak out publicly. If you were to challenge the small things, THAT does get noticed and can become fodder for the local newspaper.
> 
> We sometimes complain that nothing gets done, but we've grown too reliant on the Internet. The net has become a Good Old Boy network with clique groups. Subsequently little gets done except to break off into clique groups, fight amongst ourselves, and some even attempt to exclude others from relevant conversations. So, you have to find others of like mind and meet in smaller group settings. You discuss ways to be more effective in the legal and political arena. Then you employ the techniques.


We may not agree on everything, but the ONLY thing we need to agree on is to WORK TOWARDS our common goals, instead of picking each other apart about out different beliefs.
I did get to meet my local sherrif today, and I didn't even have to get arrested!!!!
No, actually I saw him standing with some deputies, and had to pull over and interupt him, to meet him in person. He seems standup, and I look forward to voting for him, and possibly becoming a "posse member".


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## The Resister

Deebo said:


> We may not agree on everything, but the ONLY thing we need to agree on is to WORK TOWARDS our common goals, instead of picking each other apart about out different beliefs.
> I did get to meet my local sherrif today, and I didn't even have to get arrested!!!!
> No, actually I saw him standing with some deputies, and had to pull over and interupt him, to meet him in person. He seems standup, and I look forward to voting for him, and possibly becoming a "posse member".


The last good cop I actually met was Richard Mack. We met at a survival expo back in the late 80s where both of us were scheduled to speak. A couple of hours with him and a copy of his book (which he gave me) convinced me he was the only good cop that I knew. If I were you, I'd spend some time asking this local sheriff things like where he thinks we derive our Rights from, whether he would follow orders and fire on civilians if ordered to do so, and other relevant questions like that.

You suggest that you and I have different beliefs. I am committed to *unalienable* Rights, Liberty and Freedom. Okay, I believe in God, but don't expect others to accept that. They just need to know that before I act, I presume that one day I will be held accountable to a much higher power and must give that accounting at an appointed time. So, every act must be just and fair. How can that be different than what you believe?

Some people claim to disagree with me, but if you disagree with the methods, let's be fair. The "_Social Conservatives_" have been selling the same sh!+ sandwich for a decade and a half. The voting electorate isn't buying the Ds, the Rs NOR the Tea Party. As Rush Limbaugh laments, "the Republicans and the Tea Party can tell you what they are against, but none of them can tell you what they're for." Obviously one thing I'm for that draws the ire of many is that I do not want to advance my cause in life at the expense of another person's Rights. Our forefathers built a constitutional Republic without doing that and we should follow suit.

One day, most every person on this board will have to comply with some tyrannical decision whether it's legislative, judicial, or maybe something as petty as some overpaid county bureaucrat trying to run your life from the comfort of their office and backed by a One World Police Force. What you do at that moment will depend upon what you've prepared for up to that point.


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## poriggity

Pir8fan said:


> Agreed. Our national debt is insurmountable and can never be repaid. Our government now views us as serfs. Once all of the people currently living on the public (whether it be social security recipients, welfare recipients, government employees or government retirees) are no longer receiving theirs, then you will see the chaos start. Remember the videos of the Wal-Mart when welfare cards weren't working? VIDEO: Welfare EBT users clear out Wal-Mart after EBT card glitch
> 
> The only reason we haven't descended into chaos yet is because the government is still making those payments. Sooner or later ( I believe sooner) those payments will stop.


I agree with this 100%. We are nothing more than pesants in the eyes of the govt, and we are here to do thier bidding or be dealt with.


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## Smitty901

Another Liberal /socialist president. That is what they are hopping for. Obama did not finish the job so they will need one more.


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## john10001

For both Britain and America turning away from God will be our downfall. I suspect we will face a multitude of problems and have already seen some. E.g. National debt and economic turmoil. Drought. Plagues. And ultimately war, probably nuclear. We have both been caught in the past e.g. Nazi Germany, Pearl Harbour, Falklands War, 9/11, 7/7 and many more. We never seem to learn.


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## ekim

IMO, for most people and that includes many here nothing short of an actual raid on their homes / the shooting of a loved one for no real reason would probably push them to actually do something. But the country will fall to it's lowest point before most will do much more than talk and maybe waste time voting for the lesser of two evils. People have become what they are over a long time and it won't change in a short time frame, unless they are pushed really hard on a personal basis.


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## SARGE7402

Like Resister I came to this thread very late. However, IMHO should we not be thinking very hard about what we - each and every one of us - can do to begin to put things right. Resister's has it right when he says go to town hall meetings. Let your voice be heard.

For those of us that carry a badge, let's start by being like lady Justice - Blind. Everyone get's treated exactly the same. No exceptions. Secondly, treat the citizen exactly the same way you'd like to be treated if the roles were reversed.


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## ekim

SARGE7402 said:


> Like Resister I came to this thread very late. However, IMHO should we not be thinking very hard about what we - each and every one of us - can do to begin to put things right. Resister's has it right when he says go to town hall meetings. Let your voice be heard.
> 
> For those of us that carry a badge, let's start by being like lady Justice - Blind. Everyone get's treated exactly the same. No exceptions. Secondly, treat the citizen exactly the same way you'd like to be treated if the roles were reversed.


Sounds great, how many years will this take as America sinks into a third world country in leaps and bounds. City hall sounds good, but city hall isn't passing legislation that is crippling this country. Save your local community and loose the country while you blink.

As far as those who carry a badge, IMO to little to late. The LEO image is better than a politicians but you are in a loosing battle as far as the average man is concerned. to many believe that the LEO's will follow orders and the average man will end up screwed. To many LEO's took the oath then shit on it when the laws where passed and they gladly carried them out. It's not just one or two LEO's it's departments and the top officers that are pushing the new LEo's off the bridge. To many young former military guys just out of uniform getting into cop uniforms and haven't even been brought back to civilian life yet. Then the government throws military equipment into the mix and it's like they never left the military, just changed locations. Very dangerous if you ask me. Here's a granade, just be careful we already pulled the pin bull shit going on.


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## SARGE7402

Remember in 1775 it wasn't the United Colonies that acted, or even the Commonwealth of Massachusets, but the towns of Lexington and Concord . If all you're going to do is sit back and gripe, then you really deserve what you get. Have you all given up? If that's the case see ya's


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## Beach Kowboy

That is the thing. We can sit here and complain and be part of the problem. If one of were to actually act we would be a terrorist and not make a difference. It will take a larger population of people allover the country to make a difference AND actually be able to do it and not go to jail as a quack job. If there we say 2-500 people around the country willing to do certain things. Maybe, just maybe it would work. But for 1-2 people to do anything they would be considered whack jobs and not taken seriously.
You would have to have many in the law enforcement,military,politicians and regular citizens on the same page and willing to go to great lengths for it to possibly work!!Only then would you have a CHANCE!!


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## BeefBallsBerry

Tipping point.....hmm when we have to many freedoms taken away, I know we've lost a lot but we will lose more soon.


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## ekim

I've reached my tipping point, I'm just not crazy enough to go it alone and die for nothing. When a group big enough to actually do something and make it mean something, I'm in. I owe the federal government squat and they have taken to much from to many already. Most state governments are no better and they are dragging the local governments down with them. It's no longer when we reach the tipping point, it's when enough people grow a backbone and lock n load. Take no prisoners and make them feel the pain. If the shit starts and any politician grabs up his guns and yells to the people "come on, lets take our country back" I'll stand with them, otherwise any politician is enemy and should be treated as such!


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