# Being a Christian and recognizing One



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

How will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?

How do Christians know/recognize other Christians?

What is Required of a Christian to be a Christian?

Are we allowed to Judge other Christians?

Does saying you are a Christian make you one?


The bible has answers to all those questions..............


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> How will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?


Why does that matter?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Inor said:


> Why does that matter?


Hard to GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES if you are not recognized as a person that is a disciple.

or in other words

Matthew 5:14-16

14 "You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, *let your light shine before others*, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Not seeing what this has to do with prophecy.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> Not seeing what this has to do with prophecy.


that is the same thought I had about this thread

https://www.prepperforums.net/forum/shtf-prophesy/113777-can-t-happen-america.html


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

It will be obvious I'm not.


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

A person who is not saved will recognize me as strange or square.
Speaking to a person who is saved, it shouldn't take five minutes for us to recognize each other


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> that is the same thought I had about this thread
> 
> https://www.prepperforums.net/forum/shtf-prophesy/113777-can-t-happen-america.html


The persecution of Christians is stepping up the pace. Obvious.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I've often wondered if there will come a time that certain Christians NOT being "recognized" as a Christian will be a benefit in certain clandestine operations against evil? Undercover Christians?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Ask them this question. "If you died tongiht would you go to Heaven to be with Jesus?" If they cant answer a solid Yes! They might need some assistance to step back from the flames.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Slippy said:


> I've often wondered if there will come a time that certain Christians NOT being "recognized" as a Christian will be a benefit in certain clandestine operations against evil? Undercover Christians?


That's an interesting question but I'm betting not. I think God wants us straight up and bold against the enemy.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> How will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?
> 
> How do Christians know/recognize other Christians?
> 
> ...


How about we filter this through the premise of 
"if and when the SHTF, how will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?" in order to keep it more relevant with regard to the forum. Is that okay?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Chipper said:


> It will be obvious I'm not.


Why? What would be different about you as opposed to a Christian?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> How will the outside world know [post SHTF] you are a follower of Jesus?


You'd rather die than renounce the faith.



> How do Christians know/recognize other Christians?


Not always possible in this world.



> What is Required of a Christian to be a Christian?


Everything.



> Are we allowed to Judge other Christians?


No not the person, but we are allowed--we sometimes need--to judge their actions.



> Does saying you are a Christian make you one?


No.



> The bible has answers to all those questions..............


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Matthew 5:14-16
> 
> 14 "You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, *let your light shine before others*, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.


I can already be an example to others without being a chest thumping, scripture quoting person.
My light can shine before others, and if and when they ask why I am as I am, I can tell them of Jesus Christ and what he has done for me.
After all, I'm just an old sinner, saved by Grace.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I can already be an example to others without being a chest thumping, scripture quoting person.
> My light can shine before others, and if and when they ask why I am as I am, I can tell them of Jesus Christ and what he has done for me.
> After all, I'm just an old sinner, saved by Grace.


Are you suggesting that people that actually have the nerve to speak to people about Jesus are doing so for their own glory (chest thumping)

and if they quote scripture (God forbid) that is also wrong

There are a lot of NICE people in the word that try the lifestyle evangelism thing... 
https://www.modernday.org/a-biblical-take-on-lifestyle-evangelism/

I am flabbergasted that a "Christian" would be negative about people that are willing to talk to others about Christ... We are told to pray for MORE people like that..not make it seem like a negative... but if it embarrasses you - there is also a scripture about that


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I can already be an example to others without being a chest thumping, scripture quoting person.
> My light can shine before others, and if and when they ask why I am as I am, I can tell them of Jesus Christ and what he has done for me.
> After all, I'm just an old sinner, saved by Grace.


You remind me of my oldest friend and Army buddy. He didn't drink, cuss or smoke and he didn't judge those of us who did. He simply walked in Jesus' footprints. Because of this, lost souls would come to him, wanting to know what he knew. He went to the military chapel services every Sunday but he was more respected that was the chaplain.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Are you suggesting that people that actually have the nerve to speak to people about Jesus are doing so for their own glory (chest thumping)
> 
> and if they quote scripture (God forbid) that is also wrong
> 
> ...


And I will submit that forcing your beliefs on others, unasked, will drive people away.
You see, my friend, telling me that I am going to hell if I do not do what you demand is counter productive.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> How about we filter this through the premise of
> "if and when the SHTF, how will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?" in order to keep it more relevant with regard to the forum. Is that okay?


The premise of the question is relevant and not dependent on a perception of the forum's single faceted role.

God created Man (all of us) in his image so that he could have a personal relationship with us. Without him in our lives we are not whole. Since Man was separated by his own sin (actions in contrast to God's perfect and just nature) from this intended relationship, his purpose in this world is now to accept God's gift of salvation and redemption &#8230;. and to lead or show others the way to the same restoration of a personal relationship.

While we all may have an individual methodology of communicating his Word or message, it's not about the messenger specific actions but rather his willingness to be a vessel that God can use to speak to people himself. God prepares the path and the intended hearts, we simply must be willing to share the light of his message.

Revelation 3:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> The premise of the question is relevant and not dependent on a perception of the forum's single faceted role.
> 
> God created Man (all of us) in his image so that he could have a personal relationship with us. Without him in our lives we are not whole. Since Man was separated by his own sin (actions in contrast to God's perfect and just nature) from this intended relationship, his purpose in this world is now to accept God's gift of salvation and redemption &#8230;. and to lead or show others the way to the same restoration of a personal relationship.
> 
> ...


Well, that's what this board's all about. There's all kinds of places on the net we can go to bicker about religion, if that's what we want. :tango_face_wink:

And the stuff sure is hitting the fan for Christians allover the globe. They're victim souls, I guess. Martyrs. Where does the bible talk about that?

I think the persecution's probably gonna hit us too eventually. I read that 80% of all religious freedom violations in the world today are directed against Christians. So says, International Society For Human Rights, a secular organization. Every five minutes, a Christian is put to death in the world.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> Well, that's what this board's all about. There's all kinds of places on the net we can go to bicker about religion, if that's what we want. :tango_face_wink:
> 
> And the stuff sure is hitting the fan for Christians allover the globe. They're victim souls, I guess. Martyrs. Where does the bible talk about that?
> 
> I think the persecution's probably gonna hit us too eventually. I read that 80% of all religious freedom violations in the world today are directed against Christians. So says, International Society For Human Rights, a secular organization. Every five minutes, a Christian is put to death in the world.


I take exception to your comments as follows:

The board is about many different things to many different people, not what a few want to define it as. This includes both the posters and the many lurkers. I for instance, prepare greatly due to where I believe we are in God's timeline the period known as "Grace". I suspect the hardships that are imminent are worthy of both physical and spiritual preparation.

Bickering? Not I as you will not find me debating here. I have been here a long time, and only speak the truth based on the facts, then I let you decide. Once again in case anyone has missed it before &#8230;. decisions have consequences. This includes good decisions, bad decisions, and not making a decision. Always.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> And I will submit that forcing your beliefs on others, unasked, will drive people away.
> You see, my friend, telling me that I am going to hell if I do not do what you demand is counter productive.


nobody can force their beliefs on you... they can bring it up, they can talk to you, they can hold signs... but here in America you can walk away. Only those easily offended think that speech equals force

I do not know ONE Christian that tells people they are going to hell for not doing what they demand... Deeds come after acceptance!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> I for instance, prepare greatly due to where I believe we are in God's timeline the period known as "Grace". I suspect the hardships that are imminent are worthy of both physical and spiritual preparation.


I prep because I see the world starting to Hate believers more and more and I think we are close to the start of the 70th week

The world does not care about those folks that are cultural christian - those that go to church on easter, christmas, weddings and funerals. The world is not bothered by lifestyle christian that think being good is a witness to their faith. The world could care less about the open hearts, open doors, open minds christianity that allows for many paths and things that fly in the face of what Jesus taught

The world hates people that act like and talk like Jesus... the Jesus that toss over tables, whipped people with cords, called the teachers white washed tombs, told Peter to get behind me satan, said the Sadducee where sons of their father the devil, and told people go and SIN NO MORE... the guy who forced his belief on others. the same Jesus that said The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, repent, turn, stop sinning, follow Me (paraphrased) 
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I always worry about what I say, because if what I say is not true I will be accountable for it some day - but if what I say is true the hearer will be accountable for it


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

The Great Commission given by Jesus is to carry the gospel message to all Nations. For your consideration ....

To whom is he instructing? Just the deciples or all Christians?

If there are no willing messengers for God to use as divine appointments, then how is the message to be carried to others?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> The Great Commission given by Jesus is to carry the gospel message to all Nations. For your consideration ....
> 
> To whom is he instructing? Just the disciples or all Christians?
> 
> If there are no willing messengers for God to use as divine appointments, then how is the message to be carried to others?


BUT, if I just live a good life......

notice it says GO and make.. it does not say be kind to people and wait until they ask you why you are kind


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## NewRiverGeorge (Jan 2, 2018)

John 13:35 King James Version (KJV)
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

When I am out and about and come across another Christian, it seems as if you just know on a spiritual level that they are too.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Annie said:


> Why? What would be different about you as opposed to a Christian?


Recall some preacher had a sermon one time called..."If Christianity was against the law..would you get arrested?" When he continued to jabbre on..come to find it he was trying to say we should act more like Christians..I think. Now pretending not to be one might come in handy in some risky situatons...but would tread lightly on that angle. Jesus dont like for folks to deny being some of his kinfolks. lol.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

NewRiverGeorge said:


> John 13:35 King James Version (KJV)
> By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another..


and to clarify.. this is talking about how Christian love other Christians as family -has nothing to do with those outside the church


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

What is a "good Christian"? :

1) when yo see the old lady trying to get on the bus, with a walker and groceries, and you help her on and off. 
2) when you get change back from a $10 and get money from a $50, then give it back.
3) When you find a wallet, unlooted and contact the owner, give everything back, and don't accept a reward.
4) When some poor SOB/woman is getting beaten down, and you save him/her.
5) When you take in a stray animal, to find a home, or to live with you.
6) When you take in a stray person, even for a day. People can be harder than animals, sometimes not.
7)When you hold your anger/spite.
8) When Humans are not judged by race, color, or creed; but by their actions/deeds, or by your, self
9) I wont get into 10 Commandments, I'm a sinner like all, and have asked for Lord's Forgiveness.

How is that for a start?


I won't go into bible/comnadments......


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> What is a "good Christian"? :
> 
> 1) when yo see the old lady trying to get on the bus, with a walker and groceries, and you help her on and off.
> 2) when you get change back from a $10 and get money from a $50, then give it back.
> ...


There's nothing wrong with any of this stuff; it's good. But for me worship is something different from all that.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Understand the future. Which is now.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

How to recognize a Christian?

My God, my God.

This gorgeous song sung by mentally stunted children. I pray that my God blesses them.





The same song is sung by a devout Atheist. I can't tell you how many drunken nights I have sung along with Leonard's version with a broken spirit and groveling heart.

We might pass in the street with you not recognizing me as a brother but I can tell you that I won't see another human as someone for whom Jesus didn't die.

You are looking for a fight, but I won't give in to your want. You want to pick nits. I see people who are in need.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

How to recognize a Christian?

My God, my God.

This gorgeous song sung by mentally stunted children. I pray that my God blesses them.




The same song is sung by a devout Atheist. I can't tell you how many drunken nights I have sung along with Leonard's version with a broken spirit and groveling heart.





We might pass in the street with you not recognizing me as a brother but I can tell you that I won't see another human as someone for whom Jesus didn't die.

You are looking for a fight, but I won't give in to your want. You want to pick nits. I see people who are in need.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Boss Dog said:


> A person who is not saved will recognize me as strange or square.
> Speaking to a person who is saved, it shouldn't take five minutes for us to recognize each other


Absolutely, a simple pass on the street reveals very little when it comes to the heart, but a conversation of any significant length should/will demonstrate the joy of the spirit.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Denton said:


> How to recognize a Christian?
> 
> My God, my God.
> 
> ...


Hallelujah says it all! 
In recent times I have watched this video of the Killard School choir many times. I never caught on that they were mentally stunted, but did notice that several of the boys were fidgety!


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> Ask them this question. "If you died tongiht would you go to Heaven to be with Jesus?" If they cant answer a solid Yes! They might need some assistance to step back from the flames.


in 1990 +- the pew research guys did a poll.... the question was "are you a christian?" result 86% of americans are christian

the problem is that many people think they are but are not... Jesus realize this and said "Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I would ask this question. "Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God and that you must trust in him, accept him as lord, and understand that He is the ONLY way to the the father and that he died for you so that His blood is a covering for your sin and that you must LOVE him and follow him as KING, LORD, Savior and put him above all others, even family?"


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> How to recognize a Christian?
> 
> My God, my God.
> 
> ...


You think I want to nit pick and start a fight because you disagree with me...

as always, if I am saying something wrong.. show me where I am wrong

the greatest need is not food, water, shelter.. the greatest need is Jesus...............


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Things are looking pretty bad in this world,and they're gonna get worse. But it's just what Our Lord said to expect, so we can have faith. He's going to bring great things out of our trials. God's an expert at that. I think it's one of His favorite things to do. That and to show mercy.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie, I have always admired your stance on faith and your adherence to the messsage.

The one thing that I cannot get used to is your avatar. I do not picture you as Annie Oakley.

When I think of you I do imagine you with a firearm--it's just that you're wearing a nun's coif...


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> You think I want to nit pick and start a fight because you disagree with me...
> 
> as always, if I am saying something wrong.. show me where I am wrong
> 
> the greatest need is not food, water, shelter.. the greatest need is Jesus...............


How do you know we disagree?


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Denton said:


> How do you know we disagree?


Denton, I don't disgree with you often.

You and I are strange and wonderful. You're strange and I'm wonderful. On that we just have to agree...


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, I have always admired your stance on faith and your adherence to the messsage.
> 
> The one thing that I cannot get used to is your avatar. I do not picture you as Annie Oakley.
> 
> When I think of you I do imagine you with a firearm--it's just that you're wearing a nun's coif...


Yeah, something like this! @Annie
.
.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Boss Dog said:


> Yeah, something like this! @Annie
> .
> .


Haha! That's awesome

Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, I have always admired your stance on faith and your adherence to the messsage.
> 
> The one thing that I cannot get used to is your avatar. I do not picture you as Annie Oakley.
> 
> When I think of you I do imagine you with a firearm--it's just that you're wearing a nun's coif...


Annie Oakley was an awesome girl! I saw a documentary on her one time. She had a rough childhood. Very much a lady, very self sufficient at the same time. She was a woman who could hold her own.

Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Denton said:


> How do you know we disagree?


I have been here for several years.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> I have been here for several years.


I've found that we agree more often than not.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Hard to GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES if you are not recognized as a person that is a disciple.
> 
> or in other words
> 
> ...


Well some of us follow the more boring route of trying to plant a few seeds..and praying all of them land on fertile ground while realizing most wont. Know its a good strategy cause real sure some other folks seeds landed on me...and one sprouted about thrirty years ago. Now quickly back to soul winning, the Apostle Peter offered a good plan..."Always be ready with an answer if somebody asks you about the hope that is in you..with fear and trembling." Rough paraphrase. Thats a great low key approach that normally dont make liberals mad. Then Paul said dont throw your Pearls before the Swine..so I throw my pearls three times person and if they turn and rend me..I put them back in my pocket. lol.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I can already be an example to others without being a chest thumping, scripture quoting person.
> My light can shine before others, and if and when they ask why I am as I am, I can tell them of Jesus Christ and what he has done for me.
> After all, I'm just an old sinner, saved by Grace.


Uh rah Sir. Heard it said the example of a Godly LIfe is the best sermon that can be preached.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> nobody can force their beliefs on you... they can bring it up, they can talk to you, they can hold signs... but here in America you can walk away. Only those easily offended think that speech equals force
> 
> I do not know ONE Christian that tells people they are going to hell for not doing what they demand... Deeds come after acceptance!


Great point. Its much easier to catch flies with honey than with venegar. Forget who said that. Uncle Ben maybe?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

A Watchman said:


> Absolutely, a simple pass on the street reveals very little when it comes to the heart, but a conversation of any significant length should/will demonstrate the joy of the spirit.


Yep takes being around folks for a while to delvelop an opionion as to their salvational status. Seeems to also work in internet chat groups.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Annie, I have always admired your stance on faith and your adherence to the messsage.
> 
> The one thing that I cannot get used to is your avatar. I do not picture you as Annie Oakley.
> 
> When I think of you I do imagine you with a firearm--it's just that you're wearing a nun's coif...


Okay, for a just little while I'll be this one. I know it's not Halloween but still in all, she's petty cool.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Uh rah Sir. Heard it said the example of a Godly LIfe is the best sermon that can be preached.


It comes from many years of working with fellow alcoholics.
The key to recovery from the disease is to have a spiritual awakening. That is found through working the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and then applying those steps to your daily life.
Belief in a Higher Power is essential. That is clearly shown in Steps 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 11.
My personal Higher Power is Jesus Christ, but every alcoholic who wishes to get sober, and remain sober, needs to find their own. You can not cram anything down the throat of an alcoholic, they'll puke it right back up on you. All I can do is lead by example.

Step 12: Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> Hard to GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES if you are not recognized as a person that is a disciple.
> 
> or in other words
> 
> ...


Okay... The passage you quote tells YOU to be the lighthouse on the hill.

Again, I ask, why do you need to recognize or be recognized by other followers of Christ? They run their own lighthouses and are already saved. If your goal is to attract new followers, I would think a more logical question might be: "How do I live an exemplary life worthy enough to draw others closer to the Lord?"

But that is not what you said. You implied you were looking for your own recognition...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Inor said:


> Okay... The passage you quote tells YOU to be the lighthouse on the hill.
> 
> Again, I ask, why do you need to recognize or be recognized by other followers of Christ? They run their own lighthouses and are already saved. If your goal is to attract new followers, I would think a more logical question might be: "How do I live an exemplary life worthy enough to draw others closer to the Lord?"
> 
> But that is not what you said. You implied you were looking for your own recognition...


I thought the same thing, but being just an ignorant hick I said nothing.
It made me wonder if he is maybe a JW.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I thought the same thing, but being just an ignorant hick I said nothing.
> It made me wonder if he is maybe a JW.


He's not a JW. He's a "Berean." Not the same.
This thread has nothing to do with prophecy but is an open-ended statement, looking for contention and debate. It is a minefield.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

rice paddy daddy said:


> I thought the same thing, but being just an ignorant hick I said nothing.
> It made me wonder if he is maybe a JW.


I resent that! I'm a hick too! :tango_face_grin:


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Inor said:


> I resent that! I'm a hick too! :tango_face_grin:


Ahhh, but you are far from ignorant.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Denton, I don't disgree with you often.
> 
> You and I are strange and wonderful. You're strange and I'm wonderful. On that we just have to agree...


I lost the thread about what yall were argufiying about. Could we get a memory jogger around here? Thanks.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> It comes from many years of working with fellow alcoholics.
> The key to recovery from the disease is to have a spiritual awakening. That is found through working the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and then applying those steps to your daily life.
> Belief in a Higher Power is essential. That is clearly shown in Steps 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 11.
> My personal Higher Power is Jesus Christ, but every alcoholic who wishes to get sober, and remain sober, needs to find their own. You can not cram anything down the throat of an alcoholic, they'll puke it right back up on you. All I can do is lead by example.
> ...


Hear you on that thanks. Had and have kin who went through the steips..cept one is still on step one. My crazy wife keeps saying I should go..but what does she know? lol. Just an occasonal nip for the heart and tummy dont seem no big deal.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

How to be "the one" to impact lives &#8230;..


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> I lost the thread about what yall were argufiying about. Could we get a memory jogger around here? Thanks.


Yah, me too! Was wondering what are we arguing about. @rice paddy daddy : spiritual awaking sounds like actual grace. 
@bigwheel, your avatar's Sargent York, right? Great movie. What's the print in your avatar say?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> How to be "the one" to impact lives &#8230;..
> 
> View attachment 98405


What kind of a self respecting landscaper wears a tie to work? Why is Jesus drinking coffee?! :vs_smirk:


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Annie said:


> @bigwheel, your avatar's Sargent York, right? Great movie. What's the print in your avatar say?


Negative. That is the great General George S. Patton, Jr. Commander of the US 3rd Army in WWII, of which my beloved 5th Infantry Division was a part.
In fact, of all the units that made up the 3rd, there were two that were under his command thee longest - the 5th Infantry and the 4th Armored.

The 5th Inf was given its nickname, the Red Devils, by their German opponents in World War One. Due to their service in Europe in WWII, we are still known as Patton's Red Diamond Devils.

The writing on the avatar is one of Patton's quotes: "Politicians are the lowest form of life. Democrats are the lowest form of politicians."


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, Annie, now I can't get the thought of you (decked out like Carolyn Jones) and offering words of faith while wearing a black gown you have to be sewn into.

Ms. Jones kind of reminds me of an old flame I fell head over heels for. She was a redhead, but I just remember the lust and all that black crepe...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Well, Annie, now I can't get the thought of you (decked out like Carolyn Jones) and offering words of faith while wearing a black gown you have to be sewn into.


Carolyn Jones was the bomb, may she rest in peace.

And shame on you. Morticia was a devoted wife and mother. A traditional family girl. Now I'm bringing Annie back, and not a word more from you.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> How will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?
> 
> How do Christians know/recognize other Christians?
> 
> ...


I've got a feeling I am going to regret reading (and possibly reacting to) this thread....


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> Revelation 3:20 King James Version (KJV)
> 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


This verse is the essence of Christianity. Christianity is not primarily our actions, our deeds. Christianity is opening that door and inviting Christ in and accepting His will for us. When He is in our hearts, that is when we are compelled to do the acts and deeds. Not because we have to, but because we want to.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> and to clarify.. this is talking about how Christian love other Christians as family -has nothing to do with those outside the church


Disagree.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Mad Trapper said:


> What is a "good Christian"? :
> 
> 1) when yo see the old lady trying to get on the bus, with a walker and groceries, and you help her on and off.
> 2) when you get change back from a $10 and get money from a $50, then give it back.
> ...


These are things that good people do. Hopefully Christians are good people. I know people of several faiths that would meet all of the criteria you have set out here.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Inor said:


> Okay... The passage you quote tells YOU to be the lighthouse on the hill.
> 
> Again, I ask, why do you need to recognize or be recognized by other followers of Christ? They run their own lighthouses and are already saved. If your goal is to attract new followers, I would think a more logical question might be: "How do I live an exemplary life worthy enough to draw others closer to the Lord?"
> 
> But that is not what you said. You implied you were looking for your own recognition...


are you suggesting that there is no gathering of the saints???? that we are all just an island unto ourselves??? the disciples were sent out 2 x 2.

AND my life will never ever draw people to Jesus... only Jesus will do that... If I was drawing them the first time I screwed up they would leave

You infer I was "looking for my your own recognition".. while if you were not being argumentative and trying to get my upset by false accusing you would see it was a general question

why is it important.. here is why.... want to take over a church.... get 20 or 30 folks to start attending a church, become members, start voting in each other as elders, as deacons, on the board... get a wishy washy pastor and you can have a luke warm church in less then 3 years

So... unless we as the body can judge who is and who is not a Follower.. we run the risk of ending up like many church that are now allowing all sorts of things inside. The denomination I attend requires classes and agreement on certain doctrines in order to be members... you can also be expelled as a member (anybody can attend service, dinners, get help.... but you have to be a member to vote)

In a recent bible study (which caused this thread) an elder said to me that we are not suppose to judge... he was pretty solid on us not judging anybody for anything... I explained that we are to judge those in the church or claiming to be Followers.. we are NOT to judge outsiders/// (1 Corinthians 5:12 if you have heartburn with that)

see in the end times Mark 13:12 And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death.

this is why it will be important to KNOW.

iron sharpens iron... only if you rub them together.... of course some folks are opposed to any discussion of religion ..because it is uncomfortable


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> I would ask this question. "Do you believe that Jesus is the son of God and that you must trust in him, accept him as lord, and understand that He is the ONLY way to the the father and that he died for you so that His blood is a covering for your sin and that you must LOVE him and follow him as KING, LORD, Savior and put him above all others, even family?"


I will agree with this part.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

stevekozak said:


> Disagree.


then you disagree with most if not all biblical scholars for the past 2000 years


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Ahhh, but you are far from ignorant.


opinions vary....:vs_lol:


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> then you disagree with most if not all biblical scholars for the past 2000 years


I'm comfortable with that. I know me. I don't know them.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Negative. That is the great General George S. Patton, Jr. Commander of the US 3rd Army in WWII, of which my beloved 5th Infantry Division was a part.
> In fact, of all the units that made up the 3rd, there were two that were under his command thee longest - the 5th Infantry and the 4th Armored.
> 
> The 5th Inf was given its nickname, the Red Devils, by their German opponents in World War One. Due to their service in Europe in WWII, we are still known as Patton's Red Diamond Devils.
> ...


You're refreshing my memory. I think I asked this a long time ago and forgot the answer. Thanks.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Annie said:


> Yah, me too! Was wondering what are we arguing about. @rice paddy daddy : spiritual awaking sounds like actual grace.
> @bigwheel, your avatar's Sargent York, right? Great movie. What's the print in your avatar say?


Actually that is supposed to be dear old Uncle George Patton. He fought in the Big War..WWII. Sgt York was in th War to End all Wars called WW I. I bet the lady on the horse is Joan of Arc?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

bigwheel said:


> Actually that is supposed to be dear old Uncle George Patton. He fought in the Big War..WWII. Sgt York was in thw War to End all Wars called WW I. I bet the lady on the horse is Joan of Arc? I love history.


Another great woman. Maybe I should switch my avatar to her sometime....But no, It's good King Saint Louis IX of France in my avatar edit:sig pic. He was a warrior king against the Muslims.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> then you disagree with most if not all biblical scholars for the past 2000 years


Okay, here's one--or you! Let's say the S has hit the fan....Christians from the area come to your door wanting and asking for food. But you have a wife and children you need to feed. Do you still treat these Christians as you would your own flesh and blood family? What do you think? Do you all starve together? or do you tell them to go home?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> are you suggesting that there is no gathering of the saints???? that we are all just an island unto ourselves??? the disciples were sent out 2 x 2.
> 
> AND my life will never ever draw people to Jesus... only Jesus will do that... If I was drawing them the first time I screwed up they would leave
> 
> ...


There's no way you can keep the baddies out. Even Jesus couldn't/wouldn't do that. The Apostles probably all thought Judas was a great guy until one night in Gethsemane.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

@bigwheel : Patton was really your uncle?


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> How will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?
> 
> How do Christians know/recognize other Christians?
> 
> ...


In the order they were asked:

Primarily the way we recognize a fellow German, . . . a kindred spirit Steeler fan, . . . an old high school buddy: by the way we act, what we say and what we do. (same answer for question 2)

"ye must be born again"

Absolutely, . . . 1 Corinthians 6:4-5 (KJV) 
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

Saying you are a Christian makes one a Christian like sleeping in the garage, makes one a Ford 350 dually.

Simple questions only need simple answers.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Well, I think this thread is a good one for this video.
This man is one of the strongest speakers for Jesus that I have heard in years. It is clear that his life is not important to him. God is much more important.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm parking this here so I can save it to send it to my son.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Okay, here's one--or you! Let's say the S has hit the fan....Christians from the area come to your door wanting and asking for food. But you have a wife and children you need to feed. Do you still treat these Christians as you would your own flesh and blood family? What do you think? Do you all starve together? or do you tell them to go home?


I have said many times. I will have enough to give them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and make sure they do not starve.

but yes, if it meant starving then that is what would happen.

the 1st century church SHARED EVERYTHING in common because when they left the temple.. they lost jobs, customers, etc...

so ya, I will share my food


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

stevekozak said:


> I'm comfortable with that. I know me. I don't know them.


wiser men then us have explained it... https://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/13-34.htm


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> I have said many times. I will have enough to give them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and make sure they do not starve.
> 
> but yes, if it meant starving then that is what would happen.


Oh yeah, I remember you saying that now...about the PBJ. Your church is very blessed to have you. Maybe you're slightly too generous, though?

I think God has given us priorities. We have an obligation to family first, then community, then country. It holds true today, not just for SHTF.

For example, If someone in Lybia's house burnt down, it's nice if I can send money to help. But I'm not morally obligated. if my neighbor's house burnt down, I should do what I can to help them out. Maybe donate funds, see what extra supplies or clothing might come in handy in the the interim before they're able to move back in... that sort of thing. If some close relative of mine were to have their house burned down, we'd be getting out the cots and turning our living room into a hotel room.



> the 1st century church SHARED EVERYTHING in common because when they left the temple.. they lost jobs, customers, etc...
> 
> so ya, I will share my food.


They did share, its true. But we're in latter times. We're not all living communally now. Why should things change post SHTF?

I don't think Jesus expects you to allow your children and wife to starve just because others don't see the need to prepare. These parishioners are presumably adults with jobs who should be preparing for themselves. If you all were collecting food at the church as resources allowed, that'd perhaps be different, but (IMO) it's not up to you to take care of grown adults that couldn't be bothered to prepare.

There's the wise and foolish virgins, the wise and foolish builders. I know they're meant to be interpreted on a spiritual level, but maybe not only on that level. Maybe they can be seen on a temporal level, too.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Also, not to be an itch, @Maine-Marine, but how much PB&J can you really store? Even the ingredients to make a simple bread have a relatively short shelf life, although if the flour's packed right, yeast frozen, those can last a bit longer. But peanut butter and jelly shouldn't last for than a couple of years. I only store what we're planning to eat within a year.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Maybe you're slightly too generous, though?


Not sure that is possible


Annie said:


> I think God has given us priorities. We have an obligation to family first, then community, then country. It holds true today, not just for SHTF.


It is clear that a person that does not take care of his own family is worse then a heathen.. however who is family&#8230; Jesus was pretty clear&#8230; (He even put his followers ABOVE his flesh and blood mother and brothers)
31 qAnd his mother and his rbrothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. 32 And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, "Your mother and your brothers1 are outside, seeking you." 33 And he answered them, "Who are my mother and my brothers?" 34 And slooking about at those who sat around him, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 tFor whoever udoes the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother."



Annie said:


> For example, If someone in Lybia's house burnt down, it's nice if I can send money to help. But I'm not morally obligated. if my neighbor's house burnt down, I should do what I can to help them out. Maybe donate funds, see what extra supplies or clothing might come in handy in the the interim before they're able to move back in... that sort of thing. If some close relative of mine were to have their house burned down, we'd be getting out the cots and turning our living room into a hotel room.


Morals change every 10 years&#8230; the question is what would Jesus have us do. Pretty clear if the person is a Follower if we are striving to be holy we have to help&#8230; even if we give until it hurts us&#8230; 


Annie said:


> They did share, its true. But we're in latter times.


Love is love in 1st century and today


Annie said:


> I don't think Jesus expects you to allow your children and wife to starve just because others don't see the need to prepare. These parishioners are presumably adults with jobs who should be preparing for themselves. If you all were collecting food at the church as resources allowed, that'd perhaps be different, but (IMO) it's not up to you to take care of grown adults that couldn't be bothered to prepare.


What if they thought there would be a pre-trib rapture and they were wrong&#8230; do you let them starve


Annie said:


> There's the wise and foolish virgins, the wise and foolish builders. I know they're meant to be interpreted on a spiritual level, but maybe not only on that level. Maybe they can be seen on a temporal level, too


These have nothing to do with feeding your family.. they are spiritual

think of the widow who gave her last mite

the widow that gave her last bit of flour

God is very powerful and I prefer to plan and put my faith in him.... I may be the guy that ends up hiding anne frank's cousin...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Also, not to be an itch, @Maine-Marine, but how much PB&J can you really store? Even the ingredients to make a simple bread have a relatively short shelf life, although if the flour's packed right, yeast frozen, those can last a bit longer. But peanut butter and jelly shouldn't last for than a couple of years. I only store what we're planning to eat within a year.


I have enough wheat to make 2 loafs a bread a week for years
salt, sugar are easy
yeast is in the air
eggs.. no worries


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> What if they thought there would be a pre-trib rapture and they were wrong&#8230;


We're not wrong &#8230;&#8230; :vs_laugh: (oh ya just knew I couldn't resist this one).

However, as a seasoned and successful project manager, I always have at least two well thought out back up plans. Hence, the year long supply stores I keep.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Cant help but think unsaved folks worry about SHTF end time scenarios more than do Christians.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-6-34/


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Not sure that is possible
> 
> It is clear that a person that does not take care of his own family is worse then a heathen.. however who is family&#8230; Jesus was pretty clear&#8230; (He even put his followers ABOVE his flesh and blood mother and brothers)
> 31 qAnd his mother and his rbrothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. 32 And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, "Your mother and your brothers1 are outside, seeking you." 33 And he answered them, "Who are my mother and my brothers?" 34 And slooking about at those who sat around him, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 tFor whoever udoes the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother."
> ...


Well, you sound like a good man. But I'm betting if it came down to your own flesh and blood family or your church family, you're gonna pick your wife and kids. It's just a hunch, you can tell me I'm wrong....It's what's normal: taking care of your family first. They're the ones God gave you especially to look after.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Well, you sound like a good man. But I'm betting if it came down to your own flesh and blood family or your church family, you're gonna pick your wife and kids. It's just a hunch, you can tell me I'm wrong....It's what's normal: taking care of your family first. They're the ones God gave you especially to look after.


not sure how you as a Christian can not understand the concept of eternity. If the focus is on here and today then it is easy to allow folks to die... if however you understand we go to meet our deeds and we face eternity with a loving God.. it is hard to act unloving.. even if it cost you your life our your child's life by being loving..

No where in the bible is is allowed to let people die because you are worried God will not take care of you


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> ...It's what's normal:


Christians are not normal


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> not sure how you as a Christian can not understand the concept of eternity. If the focus is on here and today then it is easy to allow folks to die... if however you understand we go to meet our deeds and we face eternity with a loving God.. it is hard to act unloving.. even if it cost you your life our your child's life by being loving..
> 
> No where in the bible is is allowed to let people die because you are worried God will not take care of you


The poor we will always have, but...Okay, fair enough. There are Christians in the Philippines who really need your money now. Why don't you go empty your bank account and help them now? Doesn't Jesus want you to?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> The poor we will always have, but...Okay, fair enough. There are Christians in the Philippines who really need your money now. Why don't you go empty your bank account and help them now? Doesn't Jesus want you to?


I am surprised that I have to explain the milk of the word to some people. Most Christian when asked what they need... food is low on the list... more bibles is higher on the list

but to provide you a better explanation. in one scenario you asked about people showing up at my house... now you are asking about people in the Philippines who i do not know and do not know about

the Bible says we are to give to those that ask... it does not say we have to give them ALL that they ask for.. we are to provide for their needs.

I can not provide for all the needs of all the Christians you can name that need help. I can help those that are within my area of reach

does Jesus want me to empty my bank account, no! But if he told me too I would. I came into this world naked, kicking and crying with nothing to my name... chances are I will go out that same way.

so again, the first argument is "am I required to provide help to my brother and sister christians".. yes... we should be a family (the local body) .. even if they fail to provide for themselves

the second, am I required to give everything and make myself poor in order to help people i have never met.. no, unless the spirit tells me too. being a good stewart means having something to give when you are asked...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

It is written (1 Timothy 5:8): "If any man have not care of his own and especially of those of his house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The commandments of the decalogue contain a special precept about the honor due to our parents (Exodus 20:12). Therefore we ought to love more specially those who are united to us by ties of blood.--Thomas Aquinas said that.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

A Watchman said:


> We're not wrong &#8230;&#8230; :vs_laugh: (oh ya just knew I couldn't resist this one).
> 
> However, as a seasoned and successful project manager, I always have at least two well thought out back up plans. Hence, the year long supply stores I keep.


Not sure and certainly don't want to start a "trib" war here, . . . but just as a comment: the pre-trib thought pattern has zero, . . . nein, . . . nada, . . . backing in the scriptures.

It is a man made scenario, . . . generally used to fleece the flock, . . . there is not one teaching recorded in theological history before 1830 or so, . . . when a poor young girl in England told her pastor about some of her nightmares, . . . he "interpreted the visions", . . . created a big following, . . . and the "pre-trib" came to life.

Don't get me wrong, . . . I would love to believe it, . . . but the following will have to be erased from the Bible before I could ever change my mind: 
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) 
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, *at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 
*

The apostle Paul fully anticipated the event to take place at the Last Trumpet, . . . meaning the seals have to be broken, bowls of wrath poured out, and all 6 of the other trumpets have to be sounded and the attendant events take place.

I'll take the word of the apostle Paul (having been spiritually inspired to write what he did) over anything the televangelists or any other book seller can tell us about the "Late Great Planet Earth". He said he anticipated seeing Christ return at that 7th trumpet, . . . I'll take his word for it.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Well, Annie, now I can't get the thought of you (decked out like Carolyn Jones) and offering words of faith while wearing a black gown you have to be sewn into.
> .


Should I reply? That's what I've been hesitant about... Okay. I'll reply.

Yeah, but in a good way, not a bad creepy way. I think I could rock a black gown while evangelizing.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> I am surprised that I have to explain the milk of the word to some people. Most Christian when asked what they need... food is low on the list... more bibles is higher on the list
> 
> but to provide you a better explanation. in one scenario you asked about people showing up at my house... now you are asking about people in the Philippines who i do not know and do not know about
> 
> ...


Thessalonians 3:
[10] For also when we were with you, this we declared to you: that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat.

Okay, I'm not trying to raze you. I think your intentions are noble. I hope you know that. I'm just saying you owe more to your little ones than you do to the people at your church. God gave them to you specifically and I doubt that if it came down to the last PB&J, you're gonna grab it out of your child's mouth to give to some dude who sat in the pew next to you pre-SHTF.

If you're really hell bent on providing for all of them, I'd gently suggest you might want to do it at the church; as a group. start a pantry there. Don't keep it at your home, or at least play your cards close to your chest regarding what you do keep in your home. Because if things go south, those Christians might not act so christianly.

I don't know, maybe that's what you're doing now? Do you have a church pantry?


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Annie said:


> Should I reply? That's what I've been hesitant about... Okay. I'll reply.


Well, Annie, as one fellow biker, upon seeing a nun for the first time, happily greeted her in her full regalia with the response, "_Any friend of Zorro's is a friend of mine..._"

So if you're going to wear a black gown when evangelizing, are you then going to wear the mask, too?


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

I think you're mistaking the bon seur ( spelling?)[Edit: religieuse bonne soeur] 4 Catwoman. I've yet to ever meet a nun who wore a mask. However I have met Nuns with a mustache


The Tourist said:


> Well, Annie, as one fellow biker, upon seeing a nun for the first time, happily greeted her in her full regalia with the response, "_Any friend of Zorro's is a friend of mine..._"
> 
> So if you're going to wear a black gown when evangelizing, are you then going to wear the mask, too?


Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> Not sure and certainly don't want to start a "trib" war here, . . . but just as a comment: the pre-trib thought pattern has zero, . . . nein, . . . nada, . . . backing in the scriptures.
> 
> It is a man made scenario, . . . generally used to fleece the flock, . . . there is not one teaching recorded in theological history before 1830 or so, . . . when a poor young girl in England told her pastor about some of her nightmares, . . . he "interpreted the visions", . . . created a big following, . . . and the "pre-trib" came to life.
> 
> ...


And ... I as well, will refrain from the counter argument and subsequent debate.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

Annie said:


> However I have met Nuns with a mustache


While there are many reasons I would not convert to Catholicism ..... this is reason #1. 
:vs_laugh:


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

A Watchman said:


> While there are many reasons I would not convert to Catholicism ..... this is reason #1.
> :vs_laugh:


Actually the younger nuns I've met these days are beautiful, like angels. I think the ones we had back in Catholic school right after Vatican II were given a raw deal. They came into the Church when it was one thing, then they were told to put on pant suits and to be embarrassed about the old stuff, like rosaries.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Thessalonians 3:
> [10] For also when we were with you, this we declared to you: that, if any man will not work, neither let him eat.
> 
> Okay, I'm not trying to raze you. I think your intentions are noble. I hope you know that. I'm just saying you owe more to your little ones than you do to the people at your church. God gave them to you specifically and I doubt that if it came down to the last PB&J, you're gonna grab it out of your child's mouth to give to some dude who sat in the pew next to you pre-SHTF.
> ...


I never said I would grab the last sandwich from my kid and give it away. I think your EXTREME scenarios are good for building a strawman to make the concept of being part of a larger family of christian look bad...

BUT, again we do not look at this world as a final stop.... Our deeds must be based on an eternal view of the kingdom not a world view of survival

the verse you quote is total out of context for the situation... it has nothing to do with end times.

I am not hell bent on providing for anybody.. I said I will provide for those that ask and I will take care of my family blood and spiritual.

there will be many folks that try and save their own life (physical) and end up losing their life (Spiritual)

I tell everybody I am a prepper.. people know I have a bunch of food AND GUNS.. I encourage people to prep and put things away

I also see things rolling out different then you...

ONCE I see a peace treaty / signed covenant and the Jews start rebuilding the temple - My family is going to be moving to AWAY... off grid and I will be cashing out and buying lots of essentials.. at least enough to last until just after the MID point (PRE WRATH)

but no matter where I am at.. I will feed anybody that knocks on my door and politely asks


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

dwight55 said:


> Not sure and certainly don't want to start a "trib" war here, . . . but just as a comment: the pre-trib thought pattern has zero, . . . nein, . . . nada, . . . backing in the scriptures.
> 
> ....at the Last Trumpet,
> 
> ...


You know I disagree with you since we have had the discussion (friendly of course) before

I am Pre-Wrath, so we are closer in thought then the OTHER GUYS

FOR EVERYBODY else -DWIGHT has a book written about the end times. it is well written and well thought out...


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> I never said I would grab the last sandwich from my kid and give it away. I think your EXTREME scenarios are good for building a strawman to make the concept of being part of a larger family of christian look bad...
> 
> BUT, again we do not look at this world as a final stop.... Our deeds must be based on an eternal view of the kingdom not a world view of survival
> 
> ...


Well obviously you're not going to pull the last PB&J out of your child's mouth. That's exactly what I'm talking about. No straw man needed there. But at the end of the day it's hard to have a discussion with somebody who already knows everything. So there you go. My bad.

Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


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## Mad Trapper (Feb 12, 2014)

I was born a Catholic.

I was baptized, and confirmed.

I saw good and bad Catholic Priests as a very young man. I didn't get raped, maybe because I saw them evil men out. The devil is all places. The good priests were a God send and wonderful. Some of my friends were raped. Don't paint the best of Gods helpers with the worst of Lucificers friends

I pray to God/Jesus, not every day but most. Church is good, and are GOOD priests when you need them.

Don't thump your bible to me, I feel God in my heart and mind. That is all I need.

Don't tell me who is a "Christian", because if You are condemming me. YOU are not!

Don't be Hollier that thou.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> Well obviously you're not going to pull the last PB&J out of your child's mouth. That's exactly what I'm talking about. No straw man needed there. But at the end of the day it's hard to have a discussion with somebody who already knows everything. So there you go. My bad.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S337TL using Tapatalk


If all I had left was a jar of peanut butter and some bread.. I would share that with my neighbors...

I would not pull a sandwich from my kids mouth, but I would share my last little bit of food... Why because I trust God

Do you really think I know everything? or are you bothered that I am taking a stance on biblical principal and willing to put myself in a position to suffer based on my beliefs.

"My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience" (v. 2).
- James 1:2-8

John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." 
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" 53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Foxe's Book of Martyrs is an interesting read


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

dwight55 said:


> Not sure and certainly don't want to start a "trib" war here, . . . but just as a comment: the pre-trib thought pattern has zero, . . . nein, . . . nada, . . . backing in the scriptures.
> May God bless,
> Dwight





Maine-Marine said:


> You know I disagree with you since we have had the discussion (friendly of course) before
> 
> I am Pre-Wrath, so we are closer in thought then the OTHER GUYS
> FOR EVERYBODY else -DWIGHT has a book written about the end times. it is well written and well thought out...


I'll sound a word of caution to all of us...
I am not convinced that this once great Republic will not fall on dire times and a SHTF existence before any of us pre/mid/or post tribbers get to see the perfection of God's timing and his return. Prepare both spiritually and physically for his return now &#8230;. whenever he may fulfill his promise.


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> Do you really think I know everything? or are you bothered that I am taking a stance on biblical principal and willing to put myself in a position to suffer based on my beliefs.


I'm bothered and worried for you, because it sounds like you're willing to allow your kids to be on the same level as the rest of the congregation. If it were just you without a wife or kids, I'd say, "Wow, that's pretty courageous if you can do it, go for it. Be like a St. Maximillian Kolby who sacrificed so others could live in the concentration camp in WWII." But you have a special vocation: its to your wife and kids. They come first. Be sure to let them know they're first--or second actually--after God.



> John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
> 52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" 53 Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.


"Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea."

"Lord I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but only say the words and my soul shall be healed."


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> are you suggesting that there is no gathering of the saints???? that we are all just an island unto ourselves??? the disciples were sent out 2 x 2.
> 
> AND my life will never ever draw people to Jesus... only Jesus will do that... If I was drawing them the first time I screwed up they would leave
> 
> ...


I see this debate is getting lost in the weeds. So let me frame it differently...

Was your original post on this thread asking how you form and keep a church after SHTF? Or was it more related to you maintaining and growing your personal Christianity? (I'll re-post your original post here so we can maybe get back on track.)



Maine-Marine said:


> How will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?
> 
> How do Christians know/recognize other Christians?
> 
> ...


Being a member of a church is NOT the same as being a Christian. I know lots of people that go to church regularly, can quote scripture (albeit inaccurately) and are no more Christian than my pet rock.

I know a lot of others that have not stepped through the door of a church in 30 years and are better Christians than I (or the current pope) could ever hope to be.

So again, I go back to the question: Why is it so important to you to recognize and be recognized by other Christians? (Hint: It is a perfectly reasonable answer to say that you just want to be around people that share your beliefs and passion for Lord. That is a position I do not really understand, which why I am so adamant on following it up.)

My own understanding of Christianity is that I am tasked with living my life as much like Christ as I can. When Jesus walked the earth, He was not hanging out with the "good guys". He was hanging out with hookers and lepers and highwaymen. In His words, He was a "fisher of men" to bring them back to God. Is that not what we are ultimately tasked to do?


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

.
.
Everybody just chill out, and come get some encouragement... here
.
.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Inor said:


> I see this debate is getting lost in the weeds.


you are creating the weeds



Inor said:


> Was your original post on this thread asking how you form and keep a church after SHTF? Or was it more related to you maintaining and growing your personal Christianity?


no, I was asking questions



Inor said:


> Being a member of a church is NOT the same as being a Christian.


no, and I never made that claim. HOWEVER, the leader of our faith and God of the universe tells us NOT TO FORESAKE the assemblying toegether... SO those people that are not part of a church Body are in disobedience.. they are not sharing their gifts nor are they being discipled.



Inor said:


> I know a lot of others that have not stepped through the door of a church in 30 years and are better Christians than I (or the current pope) could ever hope to be.


how are they better.. or are you saying they are GOOD people.. kind friendly, helpful, considerate??? or are they bringing people to Christ and teaching them in their homes. Are tehy making disciples, or are they just nice people

if your claim that they are better because they are nicer... nicer and being good does not = being a christian. So tell me how these people you personally know are better then church going people that are following Jesus.

if they are having a home group then that is a church... church is not a building... church is a group of like minded followers who meet to praise God and follow him



Inor said:


> My own understanding of Christianity is that I am tasked with living my life as much like Christ as I can.


BEING BORN AGAIN, repenting, Dying to self, Loving God and Neighbors....



Inor said:


> He was hanging out with hookers and lepers and highwaymen. In His words, He was a "fisher of men" to bring them back to God. Is that not what we are ultimately tasked to do?


He actually came for the lost sheep of Israel and to Glorify his Father.. our Job is to obey his commands....

are the people you know that are better then most church folks hanging out with hookers. are you hanging out with hookers. when is the last time you spoke with somebody ... in person about Jesus


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> I'm bothered and worried for you, because it sounds like you're willing to allow your kids to be on the same level as the rest of the congregation. If it were just you without a wife or kids, I'd say, "Wow, that's pretty courageous if you can do it, go for it. Be like a St. Maximillian Kolby who sacrificed so others could live in the concentration camp in WWII." But you have a special vocation: its to your wife and kids. They come first. Be sure to let them know they're first--or second actually--after God.
> 
> "Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea."
> 
> "Lord I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but only say the words and my soul shall be healed."


I'm bothered and worried for you, because it sounds like you're willing to allow people to starve and do not trust God enough to love your neighbor.

The widow in the bible feed the prophet the last of her flour and oil even though she had a son.

Jame 2
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15*Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, "Go in peace; stay warm and well fed," but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? *17So too, faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith and I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.e Good for you! Even the demons believe that-and shudder.

20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?f 21Was not *our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?* 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"g and he was called a friend of God. 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

My kids know they are 3rd

God
Wife
Kids


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## Annie (Dec 5, 2015)

@Maine-Marine,What's that in your avatar? Off topic, I know but can't help wondering.


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I got this one, Annie. 

Those are the flags of the countries my relatives have been thrown out of. You'll notice the "stars and stripes" are not yet there...


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

*Copper coating is now on our smaller automatic knives.*

Being a knife nut I was amazed at the first use of copper to protect steel blades from rust and corrosion. It seems I am a "crowd of one." No sooner did I update all of my larger Boker Kalashnikov 74 switchblades over to their copper plated cousins that the price started to drop faster than Denton's prom date dreams--and that's pretty fast!

Fortunately, I also placed my order for their miniature sized copper folders. It is my practice to put the "fighting switchblade" into my right hand pocket, and the smaller version in my left side pocket. My wife always says she has a knife, prefers the the smaller size, and because she's left-handed, filches my smaller knife on that side...

I think the "copper phase" failed because the blades don't look like 'steel.' This is an unwise choice if you live in places like my Wisconsin where rain and snow is a seasonal and regular happening. The knives in your pocket get soaked.

I have also rubbed down my copper folders with a very soft rag and a slight few drops of Butcher Block Oil to further resist corrosion. These little knives are just as sharp as their big brothers. And as a further benefit, the libtards won't all panic and faint if you pull out one of these little guys to snip a loose thread.

_Click on pictures to enlarge_.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Annie said:


> @Maine-Marine,What's that in your avatar? Off topic, I know but can't help wondering.


Military ribbons


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> you are creating the weeds
> 
> no, I was asking questions
> 
> ...


You have answered both of my questions. Thank-you.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Maine-Marine said:


> Military ribbons


The one on the top looks like the Army Commendation Medal. Same colors/pattern for Marines?
(the rest of them are past my time)


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, RPD, I should add that even bikers have "internal classes" and specialized patches to trumpet their status.

The Madison CC Riders are such a motorcycle club, and I wear the proud patch of the "Pork Patrol."

For those members here who are afraid of big motorcycles, consider that patch a "Congressional Medal of Dishonor."


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The one on the top looks like the Army Commendation Medal. Same colors/pattern for Marines?
> (the rest of them are past my time)


I did 12 years in the Marine Corps and 9 in the Army National Guard.. That is the Army Comm.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> My kids know they are 3rd
> 
> God
> Wife
> Kids


I've been just reading along here with great interest and not trying to get into any more of the discussion, but this stood out to me. Does your wife know that you put her before your kiddos (I don't know how old your children are, are they still actual children?). Does she feel the same way? This is curious to me.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

The Tourist said:


> Being a knife nut I was amazed at the first use of copper to protect steel blades from rust and corrosion. It seems I am a "crowd of one." No sooner did I update all of my larger Boker Kalashnikov 74 switchblades over to their copper plated cousins that the price started to drop faster than Denton's prom date dreams--and that's pretty fast!
> 
> Fortunately, I also placed my order for their miniature sized copper folders. It is my practice to put the "fighting switchblade" into my right hand pocket, and the smaller version in my left side pocket. My wife always says she has a knife, prefers the the smaller size, and because she's left-handed, filches my smaller knife on that side...
> 
> ...


To make this post fit into this subforum: "And so it was written, The Tourist shall wisely insert photos of knives into all threads, heedless of content, as it is said to be good. And it was good. " Or something....:tango_face_wink:


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well, each of us--if we're dedicated preppers--brings knowledge to the table for the benefit of others. Annie brings up issues on food prep. RPD reminds us of the political entanglements of our government gone wrong, as he points out "everything old is new again."

Even Yavanna has taught me that there are valuable people beyond my doorstep with ideas and concerns I had never considered. All these things make a better people, and hopefully stronger.

Two weeks ago I didn't know what a Pilar folder was, now I see its benefits for safety, security, medical use, and durability. Every scrap of information helps us.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

stevekozak said:


> I've been just reading along here with great interest and not trying to get into any more of the discussion, but this stood out to me. Does your wife know that you put her before your kiddos (I don't know how old your children are, are they still actual children?). Does she feel the same way? This is curious to me.


my kids are 29, 27, 26, 10, 8, and 7

Yes, she knows...

The wife and I started this family, we are the center and the foundation. We will be together after the kids are gone. We set an example for them

the kids will grow up, move out, get married, etc

you might try to make it seem like them being third behind my wife (God, Wife, Kids)is a big deal, it is not.

people will wont to see it like God......................................Wife...........................................................................................................Kids

it is not

it is like God.....................Wife.kids

it is like they are 2B behind my wife as 2A

if you ask my kids who the boss/in charge person is they will tell you that Dad is...followed closely by mom

so, ya.. my kids are loved, cared for, cherished, but their mother is more important to me then they are

I would also like to make this point...we are raising adults not children . someday they will have a spouse and their spouse will be more important to them then we are... If we have done our jobs right!

does that explain things better


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

As it should be M-M. God first, if you keep him there things will begin to fall in place the way they should. 
You marry your spouse for life, you raise your kids to love God and become productive adults. 
Eventually the kids will move on to their own lives. Your spouse will (hopefully) still be there long after.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> my kids are 29, 27, 26, 10, 8, and 7
> 
> Yes, she knows...
> 
> ...


I understand your position. I just found it interesting. My mother and father best people I know. Each of them would put their child (as children) ahead of their spouse, knowing that the other felt the same way. Ie: Each of them would sacrifice themselves for their children. Gun to head, they would choose to save their child over their spouse.

There is an old (Middle Eastern?) conundrum that goes: If your wife, your mother, and your child were all drowning in the ocean and you could only possibly save one of them, which do you save? Most Christian folks I know say they would save their child, knowing that their mother and their wife would want the child to be saved as well. Middle Easterners will save their mothers. Their logic is that they can marry another wife, they can make another child, but they will only ever have one mother. It is interesting.


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## David357 (Aug 12, 2019)

> How will the outside world know you are a follower of Jesus?


They will know we are Christians primarily by how we live, and secondarily by a verbal testimony that is consistent with our conduct. As Christians, we should be living for God's glory in every situation. Our primary aim in life is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. Our lives produce fruit and that fruit is outlined in Galatians 5:22-23. We call that, the fruit of the Spirit. It is God's character manifest in those who have received Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. It is not about being "good." It is about glorifying God, in that people can see his character and his holiness in us.

And then we have the attribute of holiness, which means being set apart. Contrary to popular consensus, God's chief attribute is not love; His chief attribute is holiness. Before God is anything else, He is holy and that means that He hates sin. We are called to be a holy people that hates sin just as much as He does. That's another part of what it means to reflect His character.



> How do Christians know/recognize other Christians?


 Also through our character and our verbal testimony. And if someone asks you how you know you are a Christian, a real Christian will view that as a chance to give their testimony about how they were saved from sin and saved into eternal life. Real Christians love to do that.



> What is Required of a Christian to be a Christian?


 A real Christian is someone who has been born again (John 3:3). Being born again means that we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord. Because of Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden, all of us are born with a sin nature that we inherited from Adam. All of us are of Adam's race and we are born sinners, at enmity with God. Left in that default condition, we will go into the destruction of Hell. We are helpless to change that. None of us, in our default condition, can ever work our way out of it, much less work our way into God's favor. We cannot possibly, because of our sin, perform well enough to suit God. We need a Savior.

Jesus' death on the cross was the payment of our sin debt. He suffered a brutal death, not just from crucifixion, but from God the Father who crushed Jesus on the cross with the full weight of His justice against sin. Jesus bore the wrath of God the Father and He did it for you and for me. He suffered and satisfied the full weight of God's justice on our behalf. Our sins were nailed to His cross and borne way. Jesus bore everything it takes to send a person to hell. When Jesus said, "It is finished," (Greek: Tetelestai) it meant, "paid in full."

He paid the price for our salvation and that salvation is available for anyone who would receive it. It is a free gift (Romans 6:23) That verses tells us that the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. We must repent of our sins, which means making a 180 degree, ask Jesus to forgive us of our sins and call upon Him for salvation.

In Jesus alone, is there salvation. Jesus said in John 14:6 that He is the way, the truth and the life (meaning eternal life) and NO ONE comes to God the Father except through Jesus. Anyone can be saved, but there is salvation in no one else and in nothing else other than Jesus Christ. You cannot be good enough, you cannot merit salvation. God does not judge us on the basis of being good enough. You cannot be good enough. His standard of judgement is righteousness. You must be righteous and God alone supplies the righteousness you need for salvation. You can't manufacture it or get it in another religion.



> Are we allowed to Judge other Christians?


Not sure what are you asking, but a real follower of Jesus has nothing to hide. We cannot condemn other beleivers, but if you claim to be a Christian, but your life says the opposite, it is a legitimate matter when someone challenges your claim to be a Christian in the light of a non-Christian lifestyle. We all sin, even if we are saved, all of us stumble in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord from time to time. But if your lifestyle is a lifestyle of sin, and no one can tell by your actions, that you are saved, you should face honest questions from others about the authenticity of your profession of faith. If you can live in sin and enjoy it while claiming to be a Christian, you have a problem that needs to be addressed



> Does saying you are a Christian make you one?


No. Nothing you can do in your own strength makes you a Christian from the standpoint of what a real Christian is. A real Christian is a genuine follower of Jesus. Lot's people think they are Christians for reasons that have nothing to do with Jesus, but more to do with their own works and sense of personal merit. There is a version of Christianity out there that does not have Christ in it.

You can be cultural "Christian" in that you live in the external Christian community, go to church and do all of the "right" things, but still miss out on Jesus. You can mentally assent to some of the teachings of Jesus, but not be a follower of Jesus.

Many think that since they have gone to church all their lives, have participated in church since they were children, that they are true Christians. But being in a church doesn't make you a biblical Christian any more than a mouse living in a cookie jar makes him a cookie.

We must put our faith in Jesus and follow Him if we wish to have eternal life and a future in Heaven with Him.


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