# Why the left would win: Even in Armed Conflict



## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Saturday Random Musings: Why the Left Would Win the Next Civil War - AllOutdoor.com

This article was read in our church group last night.
We took exception to the element that right minded
people are not able to work together. We work 
together. We know of other right minded groups 
that do.

This is a good article for anyone who is alone though.
Anyone alone that is thinking they can survive alone
is probably mistaken. Especially if the progressives 
force control over us.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Stockton said:


> Saturday Random Musings: Why the Left Would Win the Next Civil War - AllOutdoor.com
> 
> This article was read in our church group last night.
> We took exception to the element that right minded
> ...


The Balkan Conflicts (Wars) proved undeniably that Loners and small groups Died and Larger Armed & coordinated Groups Survived .


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Organisation means a lot. I do not subscribe that the left will automatically win in any senario. Conservatives do tend to be more independent IMHO.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

If a civil war does proceed to armed conflict, the faction that takes control of the most military weapons (APCs, artillery, fighter-bombers) will have a huge advantage. It does not matter what your politics are, you can not use sporting rifles to fight an attack by combined arms.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

The liberal that targeted congressmen at practice for a ball game is any indication of their level of competence with weapons. Us poor conservatives will be just fine.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

the crux is that the airport protestors have the ability/are better organized and will pick off small groups..... the problem with that argument, IMHO, is you assume that all those leftist protestors are willing to go to battle and put their lives on the line for that cause... yes they will wave god is dead signs, but will they man a post when the lead flies? also assumes that they are equally/more trained and equally armed than the people who are at the gun shows and that are protecting their families... 

Go farm-farm trying to take out all the lone-wolf pockets of resistance, that will require constant resupply and fresh recruits (willing to wander through the mountains and woods getting shot at to push an agenda). The Left is Anti-millitary.. you believe they will be able to form a competent army out of thin air from stoner states and Burning Man festivals??????

Yes the Left can organize people to show up to shout and hold signs..... I do NOT believe they can organize people to fight......


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

sideKahr said:


> If a civil war does proceed to armed conflict, the faction that takes control of the most military weapons (APCs, artillery, fighter-bombers) will have a huge advantage. It does not matter what your politics are, you can not use sporting rifles to fight an attack by combined arms.


Well, a few ******** with deer rifles in treestands will keep the lefts heads down while the young guns charge in with their blasters


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

sideKahr said:


> If a civil war does proceed to armed conflict, the faction that takes control of the most military weapons (APCs, artillery, fighter-bombers) will have a huge advantage. It does not matter what your politics are, you can not use sporting rifles to fight an attack by combined arms.


I don't know any libtards who can drive an APC or an Abrams, . . .

OTOH, . . . there are many, many vets in the locale who can.

Vets by and large are not libtards.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Give me a video game nerd, a high school football player, and a 15 year old with a learners permit and in 24 hours I can have a functioning tank crew. Not saying top notch, but good enough I could make 60 tons of steel come to life as a fire belching demon from hell.

Unfortunately....the other side has the capability also. We on the right may have an issue getting our younger generation to fight against people whom they more easily relate to in ideology. Wouldn't it suck swamp water to be all geared up to defend our country and way of life only to find our children don't feel the same way? And you can claim all you want about how well you raised your kids but teens rebel against their parents, especially if the act of rebellion is fun.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Now, how would the 25% of the population that comprises the left, being overwhelmingly unarmed, largely non-veteran and almost 100% snowflake win....exactly? Lol....


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

AquaHull said:


> Well, a few ******** with deer rifles in treestands will keep the lefts heads down while the young guns charge in with their blasters


Thinking the Militry & Law Enforcement will side with Occupy, BLM, SEIU, La Raza/mecha, Code Pink, NOW, ACLU , SPLC ... Over the Rest of America is quite telling


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

is the next civil war being determined by thumb wrestling????


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Gator Monroe said:


> Thinking the Militry & Law Enforcement will side with Occupy, BLM, SEIU, La Raza/mecha, Code Pink, NOW, ACLU , SPLC ... Over the Rest of America is quite telling


not a chance in hell.... the Military and law enforcement would never side with BLM or those other ANTI american groups


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## Urinal Cake (Oct 19, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> If a civil war does proceed to armed conflict, the faction that takes control of the most military weapons (APCs, artillery, fighter-bombers) will have a huge advantage. It does not matter what your politics are, you can not use sporting rifles to fight an attack by combined arms.


n

And you think the left would command the fire power?
I don't and they would know how to operate it. Veterans are usually right wing, I'll put my money on them.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Urinal Cake said:


> n
> 
> And you think the left would command the fire power?
> I don't and they would know how to operate it. Veterans are usually right wing, I'll put my money on them.


Totally correct sir.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

I was in the service for 21 years, the number of left leaning liberal type folks i knew would fit into a small school bus... most of them grew up taking the small bus to school... just saying


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Unless groups are organized now, they wont be if shtf


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

The American Left, and their brethren the anarchists and communists, tried open, violent rebellion in the 1960's.
Complete with terrorist bombings, shootings, burning cities, inciting riots, etc on a scale that made Black Lives Matter look like a bunch of old ladies having tea.
Those of y'all who weren't around to witness it can not be blamed for not really knowing the extent of what happened during an almost ten year period there, because after all many of the participants went on to be teachers, reporters, and historians.

Guess what? they didn't win.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The American Left, and their brethren the anarchists and communists, tried open, violent rebellion in the 1960's.
> Complete with terrorist bombings, shootings, burning cities, inciting riots, etc on a scale that made Black Lives Matter look like a bunch of old ladies having tea.
> Those of y'all who weren't around to witness it can not be blamed for not really knowing the extent of what happened during an almost ten year period there, because after all many of the participants went on to be teachers, reporters, and historians.
> 
> Guess what? they didn't win.


They played the Long Game and have won the Hearts & Minds of 70% of Folks under 40 (Due to Brainwarshing them from Pre School to Post Grad School ) and 40% of Folks under 70 are twisted by (Having Family hailing from a Long Line of Marxists dating back to the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire and Sacco & Vanzetti ) (Living through those 60s and being warped ) so saying they have not won is not factoring in how many folks vote guided by issues like (Unfettered Choice) (Support for Gay Marriage ) (Open Borders & Social Justice) (Legalized Drugs) (Wealth Redistribution /action against 1%ers and Capitalism ) instead of (The Constitution ) ( 2ARTKBA) (DOMA) (RTL) (Secure Borders /Kate's Law/The Wall ....


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Sun Tzu said "If you know your enemy, and you know yourself, the victor is already determined."

What do we know about the liberal mind? We know they are boisterous. We know they are easily lead by group-think. We know they can be whipped into a frenzy over just about anything because they let emotion control their actions.

What do we know about the conservative mind? We know they consider emotion in their decisions, yet use facts and logic to decide them. We know they are often slow to act, hoping a better solution will present itself. We know they can independently agree or disagree with others like them.

We also know two more things about these groups.
Liberal minded people need a leader, and a wall of protectors to keep them safe while they raise hell. When that leader or protective wall is removed, fear and uncertainty set in, and they scatter.
Conservative minded people *choose* a leader who they know will represent them well, but do not rely on them as their sole point of guidance. They can think for themselves, protect themselves, and when their leader is removed, their resolve is hardened, they press on. And once they've been pushed too far, they can unleash an unholy hell of violence that the world rarely sees, feeling solidified in their convictions that they are doing the right thing in their own hearts, and not because a megaphone told them to.

Conviction to the cause. That is the deciding factor in this situation.
They are often willing to kill for their causes.
We are willing to die for ours.
And we're more than happy to take as many of our enemies with us as possible when we do.

*IF* civil war ever visits us again, and the lines are drawn down political boundaries, I'll weep for the children of the liberals who believe they stand a chance... drop my empty mag, load another, charge the bolt, and move on.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Now, how would the 25% of the population that comprises the left, being overwhelmingly unarmed, largely non-veteran and almost 100% snowflake win....exactly? Lol....


As to the unarmed part, I wouldn't count on that. Antifa is arming themselves and BLM has been armed for a long time.

Now the real question is: Do they know how to use what they have? HUGE difference.


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## 6811 (Jan 2, 2013)

Civil war is pretty much equal to WROL right. I wonder how these libtard, snowflakes would do during those times. No safe space, they can cry racism all they want and there is no one to listen. I'm trying to imagine how these confused gender benders would fight. No weapons training, heck most of them don't own weapons. And if one landed on their lap, they probably would faint.
So, for the question of a group of loud mouth, armed snowflake against one prepared conservative..... I'm putting my money on the lone conservative.


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> I was in the service for 21 years, the number of left leaning liberal type folks i knew would fit into a small school bus... most of them grew up taking the small bus to school... just saying


I would be interested on your opinion on where all these uber left politicians who are former military officers come from. There seems to be no shortage of them, but they all seem to have been officers. Many from wealthy or powerful families, but not all of them. Here in IL we have senator (D) Tammy Duckturd who ousted (RINO) Mark Kirk, both of whom were officers. There is also a collection of former officers now in the latest Bloomberg gun control group - some all former military officers who want to disarm America.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

White Shadow said:


> I would be interested on your opinion on where all these uber left politicians who are former military officers come from. There seems to be no shortage of them, but they all seem to have been officers. Many from wealthy or powerful families, but not all of them. Here in IL we have senator (D) Tammy Duckturd who ousted (RINO) Mark Kirk, both of whom were officers. There is also a collection of former officers now in the latest Bloomberg gun control group - some all former military officers who want to disarm America.


And don't forget Gen. Wesley Clark.

And as for average run-of-the-mill veterans, there are a surprisingly large number of liberals among them.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

@White Shadow: speaking as a former officer, there are a vast majority ( Well, in the 70s/80s anyway) who were ROTC officers. They were granted a commission during college for taking college classes pertaining to the military. Not all of them were bad, but quite a few I knew were questionable, even as they advanced in rank and experience. Many of those officers coming out of progressive college ROTC programs in the 80s would now be 0-6 and above. I know of one personally who was a platoon leader when I was XO who now sports two stars.

Also, if you recall, an officer is commissioned by the government to carry out the orders of the president. The president may appoint officers to positions that will support his agenda. Along with that, there are systems in place to allow a civilian of certain standings to be commissioned an officer in specific jobs. Also, a government employed civilian may sometimes transition laterally from a civilian job with the government to a military position of equivalent pay grade.

And there we have the political corruption of the officer corps.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

rice paddy daddy said:


> And don't forget Gen. Wesley Clark.
> 
> And as for average run-of-the-mill veterans, there are a surprisingly large number of liberals among them.


And you forgot to mention McCain's good friend John Kerry.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

inceptor said:


> And you forgot to mention McCain's good friend John Kerry.


And Dare I say 2 Time Obama Voter Colin Powell ...


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Gen Wesley Clark rates much higher on my contempt scale than those others mentioned.
Why?
To break the siege at Waco, if you remember, the Branch Davidian sect members in that building were burned alive. Men, women, and children.
To do this, US Army APC's were used, driven by US Army personnel. That equipment came from Fort Hood, and by SOP (standard operating procedure) could not have left the base without permission from the Base Commander. Who happened to be General Wesley Clark.
Who later ran for the Democratic nomination for President.


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

Took a minute to look it up. This is the current list of dirtbags taking money from Bloomberg that has been laundered through Mark Kelly's blowhole to give a credible face to his gun control agenda. 

VETERANS COALITION FOR COMMON SENSE NATIONAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Captain Mark Kelly USN (Ret.)
Admiral Thad Allen USCG (Ret.)
General George W. Casey Jr. USA (Ret.)
General Peter W. Chiarelli USA (Ret.)
General Wesley Clark USA (Ret.)
General Michael V. Hayden USAF (Ret.)
General James T. Hill USA (Ret.)
Admiral James M. Loy USCG (Ret.)
General Stanley A. McChrystal USA (Ret.)
Admiral Eric T. Olson USN (Ret.)
General David Petraeus USA (Ret.)
Vice Admiral Lee Gunn USN (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Russel Honoré USA (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy USA (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling USA (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Norman R. Seip USAF (Ret.)
Lieutenant General William “Kip” E. Ward USA (Ret.)
Rear Admiral James Arden “Jamie” Barnett Jr. USN (Ret.)
Major General Vance Coleman USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney USMC (Ret.)
Brigadier General Evelyn "Pat" Foote USA (Ret.)
Captain Gail Kulisch USCG (Ret.)
Commander Carlos Del Toro USN (Ret.)
Melissa Rae Pancurak U.S. Marine Corps Veteran
Joe Plaia U.S. Marine Corps Veteran
Dave Korus U.S. Air Force Veteran
Jonathan Sanford U.S. Army Veteran
Terron Sims II U.S. Army Veteran
Shawn J. VanDiver U.S. Navy Veteran


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

Coastie dad said:


> @White Shadow: speaking as a former officer, there are a vast majority ( Well, in the 70s/80s anyway) who were ROTC officers. They were granted a commission during college for taking college classes pertaining to the military. Not all of them were bad, but quite a few I knew were questionable, even as they advanced in rank and experience. Many of those officers coming out of progressive college ROTC programs in the 80s would now be 0-6 and above. I know of one personally who was a platoon leader when I was XO who now sports two stars.
> 
> Also, if you recall, an officer is commissioned by the government to carry out the orders of the president. The president may appoint officers to positions that will support his agenda. Along with that, there are systems in place to allow a civilian of certain standings to be commissioned an officer in specific jobs. Also, a government employed civilian may sometimes transition laterally from a civilian job with the government to a military position of equivalent pay grade.
> 
> And there we have the political corruption of the officer corps.


Interesting. Didn't see many ROTC officers where I was. Mostly academy with a few that started as enlisted. For us, the academy seemed to turn out only the absolute best or the absolute worst, nothing in between. The former enlisted were all very solid, but maybe fell a bit short of the top academy guys.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Gen Wesley Clark rates much higher on my contempt scale than those others mentioned.
> Why?
> To break the siege at Waco, if you remember, the Branch Davidian sect members in that building were burned alive. Men, women, and children.
> To do this, US Army APC's were used, driven by US Army personnel. That equipment came from Fort Hood, and by SOP (standard operating procedure) could not have left the base without permission from the Base Commander. Who happened to be General Wesley Clark.
> Who later ran for the Democratic nomination for President.


Democrat Gungrabbers & Social Justice Warriors & Socially Liberal Military Dirtbags all in cahoots , not gonna say thank you for your service to that list of Bad Actors ...


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

When you say Academy, are you talking the ring knockers from the Point?
I've met both ends of that spectrum. And I would wager that the entitled little pricks that went through there (the lower end of the spectrum) are some of those in political power currently. 
I've known a couple who were real hard chargers though that were well liked by officers and enlisted both.


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

In my case they would have been from Annapolis, but same principle. Makes sense.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Stockton said:


> Saturday Random Musings: Why the Left Would Win the Next Civil War - AllOutdoor.com
> 
> This article was read in our church group last night.
> We took exception to the element that right minded
> ...


Not sure of what kind of goofy church you attend but if anybody ever wants to read the back of the Book..they will find the good guys win. Its just like an an old John Wayne movie. Kindly get a grip.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Not sure of what kind of goofy church you attend but if anybody ever wants to read the back of the Book..they will find the good guys win. Its just like an an old John Wayne movie. Kindly get a grip.


There's an old Country Gospel song all about that, . . . the chorus goes something like:

_We win, . . . we win, . . . Halleluia, we win, . . .

I read the back of the book, . . . and we win._

Thanks for kicking up a good old memory, . . . had not thought of it in years.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

The more I thought about this, the more I realized the left would win. And sadly, it's because of guys like me, the baby boomers.

Here's the analogy. There was a cartoon show called "Futurama," where they depicted a blowhard space ship captain named "Zapp-Brannigan." When he faced overwhelming odds, he boldly said that he would throw so many of his own men at the enemy their body parts would clog the opposition's engine ports.

So this war we're debating here comes, and I haul out the good stuff. Whether it be by blades or bullets I'm not going down. And it's fine for a while, I'm on the winning team.

Then one day I get up and realize it's just going to be another day of slaughtering whiny, half-frozen, starving snowflakes who haven't been in a fist fight since grade school. As I insert yet another 30 rounder into a black rifle, I hear the opposition's General Bernie Sanders yell, _"Onward you philosophy majors, winning means 'full dental' too..."_

Finally, me and three other guys realize we have just wiped out the entire graduating class of 2024, and Hillary is still in her bunker, stuffing crullers in her mouth and ranting about secret weapons. In desperation and abject horror--but primarily because there are so many deceased snowflakes there's no room to sit--the boomers surrender.

But it goes to prove what we all knew in the first place. The left will kill everyone in America to gain control of the government. In this scenario, it used our own ability to resist to do it for them.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> The American Left, and their brethren the anarchists and communists, tried open, violent rebellion in the 1960's.
> Complete with terrorist bombings, shootings, burning cities, inciting riots, etc on a scale that made Black Lives Matter look like a bunch of old ladies having tea.
> Those of y'all who weren't around to witness it can not be blamed for not really knowing the extent of what happened during an almost ten year period there, because after all many of the participants went on to be teachers, reporters, and historians.
> 
> Guess what? they didn't win.


Indeed they are playing the long game. They no longer fight the battles they will loose. By placing themselves in positions of influence over our young they are winning the war over time.



> Vladimir Lenin
> "Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world."
> 
> ― Vladimir Lenin


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

The Far Left & Left could never pull a Castro here , not enough Che Guevaras .


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

replace Isis with Lefties......... and it will still be the same!


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

inceptor said:


> As to the unarmed part, I wouldn't count on that. Antifa is arming themselves and BLM has been armed for a long time.
> 
> Now the real question is: Do they know how to use what they have? HUGE difference.


When I referred to "unarmed" I meant few firearms. I am all for the fools bringing a knife or club to a gun fight.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Here's the analogy. There was a cartoon show called "Futurama," where they depicted a blowhard space ship captain named "Zapp-Brannigan." When he faced overwhelming odds, he boldly said that he would throw so many of his own men at the enemy their body parts would clog the opposition's engine ports





> *Zapp Brannigan*: "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down. Kif, show them the medal I won."


Man, I love that show.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

bigwheel said:


> Not sure of what kind of goofy church you attend but if anybody ever wants to read the back of the Book..they will find the good guys win. Its just like an an old John Wayne movie. Kindly get a grip.


We do win, but how? Do we win thinking we will? Do we win just knowing we will? Might we have to lose first?
I think you are right. What if the win isn't our generation? What if its 3 generations down? Ten? Twenty five 
or hundreds? I hope you see what I mean. We do win. When? We do win but how?  Right now the progressives
win. That is what the author is suggesting. Our church group disagreed with the author. We think we could win
now. I don't know that I have that much faith. After all I live in a town it would be hard to win. The gang
members in my town outnumber the cops 5x1. Some think 10 to 1. What if the cops are on the side of the
progressives. Their leaders are. Then what? The military sides with the progressives to follow orders. Then
what? Cops, military, gangs all on the progressive side. How do we win?


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

Snowflake can't think outside the X box. When they experience incoming they will scattered like roaches when the lights come on.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Stockton said:


> We do win, but how? Do we win thinking we will? Do we win just knowing we will? Might we have to lose first?
> I think you are right. What if the win isn't our generation? What if its 3 generations down? Ten? Twenty five
> or hundreds? I hope you see what I mean. We do win. When? We do win but how? Right now the progressives
> win. That is what the author is suggesting. Our church group disagreed with the author. We think we could win
> ...


The same way a smaller force always beats a larger one.
They are slow. You are fast.
When they sleep, you make your move.
When they feel safe, you attack.
When they feel unsafe, you bide your time.
When they think your forces are few, make them think your forces are huge.
When they think your forces are large, make them think your forces are small.
Always keep them off balance.
When you attack, appear to retreat.
When you retreat, appear to attack.

Read Sun Tzu!!!


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

Stockton said:


> We do win, but how? Do we win thinking we will? Do we win just knowing we will? Might we have to lose first?
> I think you are right. What if the win isn't our generation? What if its 3 generations down? Ten? Twenty five
> or hundreds? I hope you see what I mean. We do win. When? We do win but how? Right now the progressives
> win. That is what the author is suggesting. Our church group disagreed with the author. We think we could win
> ...


your problem is your don't realize that there are more towns with the opposite demographics than the one you live in.... lots of god-fearing, gun-toting bitter clingers in the middle of the country without gang members at all, and very few Libs.... Look at he 2016 election Map by county . a whole lotta red there.. do you believe the Gang members will cross the mountains to fight town-town for nothing more than to push an agenda? or is it more likely WROL they cement their turf and take over the Lib cities entirely?


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)




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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

I think the left has some veterans and some other tactical people... But, the right leaning pissed off very capable Veterans outweighs them by leaps and bounds.
But, they are the people that seem to have more tech savy, law making, law protecting types.. I honestly think they will break us financially. Then, it will be game on and over real f'n quick.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Stockton said:


> We do win, but how? Do we win thinking we will? Do we win just knowing we will? Might we have to lose first?
> I think you are right. What if the win isn't our generation? What if its 3 generations down? Ten? Twenty five
> or hundreds? I hope you see what I mean. We do win. When? We do win but how? Right now the progressives
> win. That is what the author is suggesting. Our church group disagreed with the author. We think we could win
> ...


Ah, I wouldn't worry about it if I were in your shoes. You've already lost and given in.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Kauboy said:


> Read Sun Tzu!!!


it was required reading in the Corps


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

Maine-Marine said:


> it was required reading in the Corps


Biting tongue to resist obvious jokes about marines...


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

White Shadow said:


> Biting tongue to resist obvious jokes about marines...


Says the guy with a Marine's quote in his sig line... ;-)


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## White Shadow (Jun 26, 2017)

Kauboy said:


> Says the guy with a Marine's quote in his sig line... ;-)


Didn't say they don't have good ideas when it comes to eradicating problems with extreme prejudice.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

inceptor said:


> Ah, I wouldn't worry about it if I were in your shoes. You've already lost and given in.


Guess the point of the article was lost on you.
You have an opinion that fits your beliefs and
I wish you well. I sadly think you are not 
thinking it through like the writer noted.

There are lots of wonderful small towns. There
are lots of great churches and small groups. 
Sadly they pale in comparison to the opposition.
I fear you underestimate the opposition.

https://unitedgangs.com/fresno-bulldogs/

How many small town and church groups will
win against 6,000 gang members? That is one
gang. In one city. Your beliefs are great but
they are not supported by fact. Your over 
confidence is something you can correct. I'm
just trying to point that out so you do.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Stockton said:


> Guess the point of the article was lost on you.
> You have an opinion that fits your beliefs and
> I wish you well. I sadly think you are not
> thinking it through like the writer noted.
> ...


If you honestly think a gang will bend to the will of politicians, you've been watching too many movies.
You also sorely overestimate any gang's capacity to execute strategic plans of attack.
The Zetas are only as powerful as they are because they are ex-military at their root.
Pedro and Lil' Bo won't hold a candle to even a half-ass trained opposition, let alone stick around when a few hundred of their brothers are dead.

Small towns and church groups? Who do you honestly think would be fighting this imaginary war?
It won't be ol' Ms. Betty in the third row of Podunk Lutheran Baptist Gospel Ministries.
At 6,000 members, they are exactly 1.1% of the entire population of that city. There are ~800 officers willing and able to stand against them, and a town of 500K standing behind them.
To the victor go the spoils. One win against a weapons trafficking gang, and you can arm half the population. The police already know everything they would need to do it.

Seriously, gangs account for nothing when you look at the numbers. They are just another terrorist group capitalizing on fear and violence.
Plus, they don't accept rivals as friends. They would all still be gunning for each other. No unification of any kind.

I'm just not that worried about gangs in an open and all out civil war. It will be open season on them and their numbers will crumble.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

@Stockton, I can appreciate what you said, but let me point something out to you, without meaning to be disrespectful.
You have grown up differently from some of us. Things you came here to learn, many of us have lived since birth. Warfare in the cities will be different from warfare in the rural areas.
One should never underestimate their enemy, this is true. But one should not underestimate himself, either.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Coastie dad said:


> @Stockton, I can appreciate what you said, but let me point something out to you, without meaning to be disrespectful.
> You have grown up differently from some of us. Things you came here to learn, many of us have lived since birth. Warfare in the cities will be different from warfare in the rural areas.
> One should never underestimate their enemy, this is true. But one should not underestimate himself, either.


That is my point thank you. I just don't want to 
see good people under estimate their foes. @Kauboy the gang I provided a 
link about is just one. There is more than one in Fresno. Fresno is just one 
of the gang infested cities. In fact they almost are all gang infested. Fresno's
gang population is said to exceed 20,000.

The author of the article called it different then you did. He is suggesting 
the politics of the left will enable them to control the police and military. They
will also use the gangs.

Yes gentlemen I grew up in a crime ridden, gang infested, city of 250,000.
A city bankrupt in more ways then one. A city that exercises its control over 
smaller cities around it with ease. That is the kind of thing the author of the
article is trying to show everyone. They understand organization. They 
understand winning not just at the polls but with the media. They will
isolate the right. They will demonize. And when the gangs take out any
effort to stop them they will get the military and police to sand back and 
watch.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

I think some of us have known for a time the nation will be divided into zones. I expect it will be a while before the urban gangs venture too far from their area of comfort and control. This should give both sides time to define how this will be played out once they decide to make a foray into the wilderness.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Stockton said:


> That is my point thank you. I just don't want to
> see good people under estimate their foes. @Kauboy the gang I provided a
> link about is just one. There is more than one in Fresno. Fresno is just one
> of the gang infested cities. In fact they almost are all gang infested. Fresno's
> ...


I'd like to point out that gangs overestimate themselves while looking at the rest of society as their easy prey. This is during rule of law, of course.


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

Anyone who thinks Law Enforcement & the NG & Military will put their boots on the throats of Americans defending their Families ,Communities , Property , Animals , Rights ... against La Raza/mecha, BLM, SEIU, CPUSA, Code Pink , ... & their MS13 (eMe) allies is delusional


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Stockton said:


> The author of the article called it different then you did. He is suggesting
> the politics of the left will enable them to control the police and military. They
> will also use the gangs.


Please tell me you understand the conflict in this assumption.

Even at 20k, that is still less than 4% of the population, and they will all turn on each other, as I said.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

The more I think on it, the article is probably leftist propaganda Hoping to cause us to quake in our boots.


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

Coastie dad said:


> The more I think on it, the article is probably leftist propaganda Hoping to cause us to quake in our boots.


Not my impression of it. My thought was that it wants
the right to not be so over confident. As it seems to be.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

And the left isn't? Choose a side, stockton and support it. Sometimes your left coast side creeps out in the conversations. It's not necessarily over confidence so much as we are tired of being pushed, and ready to throw down a glove. Remember what I said earlier? You're just now entering our world. We've been getting ready for unfortunate events for years. That preparation and begrudgingly accepting possible events bolsters confidence, not arrogance. The left has recently had its ego stroked and allowed to have no consequences for so long that they have become arrogant. 
It won't be pretty for either side. But while they've been screaming to accept diversity, we've been quietly preparing to cope with adversity.

I've gone two years without Starbucks, you know....:vs_cool:


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

I think the left is, in fact, weaker. Check the scoreboard.

JFK had every cheerleader and actress on the planet. Slick Willie had maybe a dozen--in fact, I think Hillary had more women. Barry didn't have any.

Paper tigers, guys. No boost in their juice. The breed, as we know it, is dying out.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The Tourist said:


> I think the left is, in fact, weaker. Check the scoreboard.
> 
> JFK had every cheerleader and actress on the planet. Slick Willie had maybe a dozen--in fact, I think Hillary had more women. Barry didn't have any.
> 
> Paper tigers, guys. No boost in their juice. The breed, as we know it, is dying out.


We would have to take back the government edukayshun system and unplug from the entertainmnt industry in order for them to die out. Otherwise, they infect our children.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

There's a meme floating around social media today that sums it up for me.

"Civil War? Our side has 3 billion bullets, their side can't decide which bathroom to use. Do the math."


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## NotTooProudToHide (Nov 3, 2013)

The article is dead wrong. There is a big difference between people fighting for a ideological cause and people fighting to protect their families and communities. The author of that article conveniently left out how all those big current leftist leaders that drew blood for leftist causes in the 60's and 70's where stopped and some imprisoned by people trying to keep the peace. I'm sorry, big difference between marching, chanting, posting on social media, and picking up/using arms against other human beings. I have no doubt there are those that relish it, just like there are those on the right that do. Both types are the ones that we need to fear.

The author also left out the organization skills of the right which is more mainstream; church groups, social clubs, business owners, you name it. You start threatening communities and you'll see just how organized things can get in a hurry.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Stockton said:


> That is my point thank you. I just don't want to
> see good people under estimate their foes.
> @*Kauboy*
> the gang I provided a
> ...


So you really think gangs will get organized and group together for a long term effort? Really? Then why are there so many turf wars and gangs killing each other?

Right now in New Mexico two MC gangs are at war. Local authorities are worried it's going to spill over into the tourist trade.

Given enough money and weapons, they may organize for a short time but your dealing with massive egos and machismo here. It won't last long. I have seen smaller gangs merge with a large one a time or two but when you have gangs like MS13, The Blood and The Crips, just to name a few, they won't take orders from another gang. In fact it won't take long before there is so much in fighting for control they will be killing each other again. Period.



Stockton said:


> Not my impression of it. My thought was that it wants the right to not be so over confident. As it seems to be.


Don't forget the left was convinced Hillary would take the entire country, Trump was a joke and would only get a few votes at best.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Now for a little more reality.

The silent majority elected Trump. These are your average hard working Americans who are not out there rioting and complaining. Do you really think they will just lay down and give up? Do you think they will really be easy to push around?

So I guess your opinion of the average person is pretty low. 

I also get your estimation of the left, gangsters and criminals is pretty high. I'm sure they'll be glad to hear you think so much of them.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> There's a meme floating around social media today that sums it up for me.
> 
> "Civil War? Our side has 3 billion bullets, their side can't decide which bathroom to use. Do the math."


End of argument. :tango_face_grin:


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## Stockton (Jun 21, 2017)

No I don't imagine gangs will last in a long term effort.
I'm sure they will turn on each other. How long will that take?
How long will they act with impunity? Gangs have one thing
the people I interact don't. That would be the willingness
to kill without remorse. The first blows by a group with 
no repercussions will be hard for the right to overcome.

I'm getting the sense those living in rural areas here
don't understand or want to understand the plight of those
in cities. I've been accused already of being a leftist just 
because I want to make sure the right takes the threat
seriously. Its pretty disheartening to see the problem the
article pointed out illustrated right here. The problem is
the right just thinks they have it won. They may, but 
they may not.

Someone in this thread pointed out those who get the 
armament from the military wins. Well who's going to 
get the armament in the cities? Is it going to be the 
church groups or the gangs? Considering the later doesn't
care who they kill and the church groups do I'd say
there is a problem.

I don't know why anyone would imagine I'm taking the lefts
side. I'm not. I'm just wanting the right to recognize the
threat. Based on the comments here - the right is not 
understanding the threat or wanting to see it.



inceptor said:


> So you really think gangs will get organized and group together for a long term effort? Really? Then why are there so many turf wars and gangs killing each other?
> 
> Right now in New Mexico two MC gangs are at war. Local authorities are worried it's going to spill over into the tourist trade.
> 
> ...


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## Gator Monroe (Jul 29, 2017)

The Larger Cities will eat their own (When it all comes down ) they will devolve into Cannibalism and churning infernos of unhindered death disease and hunger , The ones that make a run for it will be attacked depleted and eventually halted as they egress out , they (Big City Folks) will not pull together and create Socialist Fiefdoms and domains of Caring Understanding forward thinking eMe Warlords . Having faith that Power over the Hinterlands and far reaches of States will come from Gleaming Citadels holding sway is cracking me up (And I thought Preppers & survivalists had a grasp of what the future could hold ...


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## Steve40th (Aug 17, 2016)

Nothing crazy will happen till people get hungry. Thats how most revolutions have happened.


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## Coastie dad (Jan 2, 2016)

Actually, I didn't accuse you of being a leftist, I said some of the left coast comes out in your conversations. The moderate side of the right, just like the moderate side of the left, have a much more grounded perception of what could occur and the cost and consequences associated with the actions.
Because we aren't panicking doesn't mean we aren't taking the threats seriously. If you feel that you are in such a bad area you are facing certain death, leave.
If you can't leave, prepare for problems.
Remember, thread are people here on this forum that have been preparing for uncertain events for decades. And preparedness for uncertain times offers a great sense of calm.


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

@Stockton, please understand this point...
"Church groups" will not be fighting this war.
You're staring with that misconception, and it's easy to see why it all falls apart from there.

I won't be looking for fireteam members from my local sanctuary.
I have a list of those I will be contacting, one way or another.
They have served under the flag or the badge, and would NEVER fight along side any gang affiliated cretins.

Rough men will fight this war... on both sides. Not the sewing club from the church down the road.


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## ND_ponyexpress_ (Mar 20, 2016)

simple problem to your inner city gang vs. small town middle-America.... weapons and training... weapons of inner city gangs: pistols, sawed-off shotguns, semi-auto rifles Training: drive-by's and urban run-and shoot.. Weapons of small -town middle America: same as gangs.. PLUS multiple scoped rifles (you seem to leave the surrounding farmers out of your fight)...... Training of small-town middle America? we hunt... have hunted big game since we were able to get a license.. up here in NoDak that means 300yd running shots...(my first deer was a small doe running @ 200Yds with an open sight 303 British Enfield).... add in spotting scopes, camo, and knowledge of our home area....... 

you also skipped over my comment of gangs moving out of the cities to fight needing supply lines and constant recruits... there is a reason current gang turf in each city only consists of a few blocks around their neighborhood.... I would be more fearful of current motorcycle gangs than inner-city gangs like you suggest..


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Stockton said:


> I'm getting the sense those living in rural areas here
> don't understand or want to understand the plight of those
> in cities.


Sorry to bust your bubble here but I'm a city boy born and raised. I grew up in the inner city. I will also tell you I know a thing or two about gangs.

I still stand by my assessment.

ETA: I still live in the city but I'm now in the burbs.


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