# Ammo snobs and prepping



## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Ok, so here is my dilemma.... in the communist state of Connecticut certain calibers of ammo are hard to find and even if you do find some it may not be exactly what you want. I have been striving to increase the amount of ammo I have on hand for all calibers that I own. .380 ACP is very difficult to find around here and all I could find was TulAmmo which is steel cased. What are your thoughts on it? I have a knock around LCP that I paid 180$ for do you think the steel would damage the gun? Would it really matter in a SHTF?


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Can you mail order it in from on line sellers?


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

paraquack said:


> Can you mail order it in from on line sellers?


nope, most online sellers have thumbed their noses at Connecticut because of their draconian gun laws. You can't buy ammo in CT without showing a valid concealed carry permit. I have one which isn't a problem but the online guys don't even want to deal with it unless they are the big box places like Cabela's.


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## jeff70 (Jan 29, 2014)

Alot of people frown on the steel case ammo, but I have shot a ton of the stuff without any problem. In SHTF if it goes bang it is good IMHO.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

Move to a free state


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

As long as it cycles it would be awesome practice ammo. I have had a fussy handgun that required soft primers . If the primer was too hard I would have a fail to fire. If it is available I would want hollow points that my pistol in that particular caliber that would fire reliably for carry. In a pinch less than ideal is better than nothing.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Can you drive to New Hampshire or upstate NY and buy ammo? I travel on business all the time and when I drive my own vehicle into other states I often check out sporting goods stores and if there is a good deal o ammo, I'll buy some. 

Can you do that or is there some stupid commie law against it?


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Camel923 said:


> As long as it cycles it would be awesome practice ammo. I have had a fussy handgun that required soft primers . If the primer was too hard I would have a fail to fire. Of of works I would want hollow points that my pistol in that particular caliber that would fire reliably for carry. In a pinch less than ideal is better than nothing.


My every day carry ammo is Hornady critical defense JHP's. This is just stock pile/range ammo. There is another caveat to this which is ammo is WAY more expensive here. The TulAmmo in .380 ACP is 15.94 for 50 rounds. I bought 200 rounds because I would rather have it than not but I was curious to see what people thought of the Steel ammo vs. Aluminum vs Brass or if it would even matter post SHTF.


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## jeff70 (Jan 29, 2014)

I would go shoot it and make sure your gun likes it, I got my last 1000 rounds from a buddy because his gun would miss fire and jam like crazy with it, Both my 9mm cycle it perfectly, I carry with the core-bon +P but take the steel case to the range.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

I shoot steel ALL the time, and I shoot a lot. 

People bitch and complain about it, but it runs fine for me. They talk about how "dirty" it is, like that matters… clean your guns each and every time you fire them, who cares if it's dirty?

I've also heard people complain about it wearing out parts faster, but seriously, how much are you going to shoot? If it's a bazillion rounds, enough to wear parts out, then you are going to save more money shooting steel then the cost of replacing the whole danged gun let alone parts.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Can you drive to New Hampshire or upstate NY and buy ammo? I travel on business all the time and when I drive my own vehicle into other states I often check out sporting goods stores and if there is a good deal o ammo, I'll buy some.
> 
> Can you do that or is there some stupid commie law against it?


I am actually not sure about that... I would guess there is probably a law against it but I will research and see what I find.


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

I sometimes have found a good deal on ammo where I didn't expect to find one on gunbroker.com
You might give that a try? 

I have not had any issues with steel ammo. I haven't shot a lot of it but no issues so far and I keep some
in my break glass in case of war collection of guns and ammo.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Are you familiar with Target Sport USA? I've bought a fair amount of ammo from them online. They're a solid company and located in CT.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Hemi45 said:


> Are you familiar with Target Sport USA? I've bought a fair amount of ammo from them online. They're a solid company and located in CT.


never heard of them but that isn't indicative of anything... believe it or not CT used to be the gun capitol of the US. We had Marlin, Colt, Ruger, Remington and even some lesser known brands based here.... sadly they have mostly moved out.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Steel cases are harder to reload (yes, it can be done) but if you don't reload, this isn't an issue.

Shooting steel cased ammo can be a little harder on your gun, especially the extractor. But, as Salt-N-Pepper pointed out, this is more than offset by the lower cost of steel cased ammo. You could always buy a few extra parts to have them on hand if you are prepping for TEOWAWKI.

I would rather shoot steel and keep in practice than not practice at all because I am worried about wear.


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> never heard of them but that isn't indicative of anything... believe it or not CT used to be the gun capitol of the US. We had Marlin, Colt, Ruger, Remington and even some lesser known brands based here.... sadly they have mostly moved out.


I myself moved out of CT eleven years ago! Check out the company I mentioned. Being in CT, you might even be able to pick up in-person.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

Hemi45 said:


> I myself moved out of CT eleven years ago! Check out the company I mentioned. Being in CT, you might even be able to pick up in-person.


That is an awesome site... They are 10 minutes from my house LOL I will call them tomorrow and see if I can just walk in, but shipping is free on most items anyway.


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## redhawk (May 7, 2014)

I have a Ruger LCP also and I have shot steel cased ammo in it and have had no problems whatsoever...JM2C


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## Diver (Nov 22, 2014)

I have a similar issue with NJ laws, but the online sellers simply take an emailed scanned image of the card and put it on file and that's the end of the problem. I suggest you try a few of them. You can also take a few trips to VT or NH.


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## Oddcaliber (Feb 17, 2014)

The last batch of Tula 9 mm I got would not cycle in my pistole for someone reason, but I have no problems with my SKS's no matter what I feed them. You just have to experiment to find the right ammo for your gun.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

As a rule I try to stay away from steel cased ammo but only because I reload most of my ammo, so I want brass cased ammo so that I can re-use it. If the SHTF and I managed to get my hands on a butt load of steel cases ammo, I wouldn't have any qualms about using it.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

rjd25 said:


> You can't buy ammo in CT without showing a valid concealed carry permit.


SAY WHAT?
Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
Of course, the state senators, representatives, and governor were elected by the people, so that must be what the people want.
If you get the chance to relocate to the South, don't hesitate.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Yea i have seen signs in gun shops, they either say no ammo sales to NY or you need some type of ID.

The NY safe gun act was supposed to require background checks to buy ammo! It was supposed to start soon but. Good luck from your neighbor in Pennsylvania.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

I simply go to Brandies Ace Hardware in Callahan, Florida, or Hagan Ace Hardware in Hilliard, Florida and buy my ammo. 
Brandies also sells guns - I have bought "a few" there including (but not limited to) an AK and a Mosin Nagant. No waiting period, nothing. Present ID, fill out BATFE form, pass call-in background check, pay money, walk out with gun.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

A memory of simpler (and better) times when local hardware stores carried guns and ammo everywhere across the country. ^^^


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## whoppo (Nov 9, 2012)

rjd25 said:


> nope, most online sellers have thumbed their noses at Connecticut because of their draconian gun laws. You can't buy ammo in CT without showing a valid concealed carry permit. I have one which isn't a problem but the online guys don't even want to deal with it unless they are the big box places like Cabela's.


It's not the online sellers that have thumbed their noses at Connecticut... it's Connecticut that has thumbed its nose at online sellers when it passed laws to deny you the ability to purchase your ammo online.

Got any relatives/friend in free states that can order ammo for you?

I would suggest urging everyone you know to vote for freedom supporting politicians next time.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Slippy said:


> A memory of simpler (and better) times when local hardware stores carried guns and ammo everywhere across the country. ^^^


Yes, when I was a kid it was commonplace. 
I even bought my first M1 Garand at a Woolworth Department Store.
As late as the early 1970's the local Seven-Eleven convenience store where we used to live sold ammo.


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

whoppo said:


> It's not the online sellers that have thumbed their noses at Connecticut... it's Connecticut that has thumbed its nose at online sellers when it passed laws to deny you the ability to purchase your ammo online.
> 
> Got any relatives/friend in free states that can order ammo for you?
> 
> I would suggest urging everyone you know to vote for freedom supporting politicians next time.


It is really ironic that the Cradle Of Liberty, New England, has states with some of the most restrictive gun laws. I guess people have forgotten, or never been taught, that the Shot Heard 'Round The World was fired over gun control - the Redcoats marched on Lexington and Concord to seize the arms and powder of the villagers.
And we all know how that turned out.
But I guess if Obama could be reelected even after showing his true intent then this country is doomed.


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## ekim (Dec 28, 2012)

I guess we can sum it up by a few words, "What you allow you encourage". Welcome to the new Amerika.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> It is really ironic that the Cradle Of Liberty, New England, has states with some of the most restrictive gun laws. I guess people have forgotten, or never been taught, that the Shot Heard 'Round The World was fired over gun control - the Redcoats marched on Lexington and Concord to seize the arms and powder of the villagers.
> And we all know how that turned out.
> But I guess if Obama could be reelected even after showing his true intent then this country is doomed.


The problem is despite having the highest per capita income, Connecticut's larger cities are largely poor and dependent on government assistance. The small towns overwhelmingly vote Republican but are simply outnumbered by the large city voting blocks. All they have to do is say that Republicans will take away your free stuff if elected and Boom! Democrat gets in. The citizens of Connecticut did not vote for gun grabbers or gun legislation, they traded their rights for goodies. I don't know a single person who voted for our governor and there was also some shady stuff at the polls. Somehow he got more votes in Hartford than people who voted... Sadly Connecticut has no recourse to recall a Governor once elected.


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## Sarkus (Sep 11, 2014)

Steel case ammo is certainly fine up to a point, but I'd not want it as the bulk of my SHTF stash. LuckyGunner did a 10,000 round test comparing steel to brass with four identical cheap Bushmaster AR-15s a few years ago. The extractors wore out slightly faster, but not by a margin that most would notice. The bigger issue with steel cased ammo is that the jacket on the bullet is partially steel as well, and the LuckyGunner test did show that is wore out the barrels on their test guns in about half the time as the brass cased control ammo. So after 10,000 rounds the control barrel still had life in it but the steel cased guns were "shot out" by about 6,000 rounds. Higher quality guns would presumably last longer, but still. As far as I know, that is the only really detailed test anyone has done to see what the real impact of steel cased ammo is.

As noted, its not an issue if you aren't shooting thousands of rounds. And even then barrels are cheap. But in a SHTF situation barrels won't be cheap and I'd rather have a gun last longer if I need it to.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

1000 rounds of MPC Bronze 332.49 (brass, boxer primed) (Sportsman's Guide) 

1000 rounds of Wolf Military Classic 246.99 (Sportsman's Guide)

Shipping is the same either way, so it is ignored here.

Price difference of $85.50 per thousand.

$85.50 x 6 (for 6,000 rounds) is $513.

Extractors run anywhere from $15-30 bux and are user fixable.

Standard, everyday AR-15 barrels run about $80, Wilson Combat match grade barrels start at about $250.

SO... you can save money AND probably get a better barrel than you started with by shooting 6,000 rounds of steel in your cheap AR.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Sarkus said:


> Steel case ammo is certainly fine up to a point, but I'd not want it as the bulk of my SHTF stash.


If there is a huge SHTF moment, you aren't going to be shooting thousands of rounds of ammo, that's many firefights with a semi-auto weapon. LOTS of firefights. If it comes to that, you will probably be dead.


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## Makwa (Dec 19, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> 1000 rounds of MPC Bronze 332.49 (brass, boxer primed) (Sportsman's Guide)
> 
> 1000 rounds of Wolf Military Classic 246.99 (Sportsman's Guide)
> 
> ...


A friend of mine from PA and I shot a pile of that Wolf ammo last summer. It's cheap but it was horribly dirty ammo.......... the AR's were jamming and absolutely FILTHY with crud after only about 50 rounds. Just an FYI.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

There's an Ace hardware here in Va that only sells guns. OK, they have a very small section (about 12 feet of wall) that has some nuts, bolts, and nails, but the rest of the store is all guns, reloading stuff, ammo, bows, targets, and hunting clothing. They have racks and racks of guns on the floor where anyone can just pick them up and handle them. The handguns are all in cases for obvious reasons.

I asked them about this once, and was told, "We do sell hardware, it's just a different kind of hardware."

It's the same deal as RPD posted, "Present ID, fill out BATFE form, pass call-in background check, pay money, walk out with gun." This also goes for handguns.


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## jbrooks19 (May 22, 2014)

I shot Tula through a Glock 19 and also did Wolf and Tula in my AR (Cheap home built) I did 6k round of the 9mm in the G19 and NEVER, I repeat, NEVER had any issues. It was a little dirty at about every 500rds..I simply cleaned it and kept shooting. Didn't wear the barrel on my Glock a bit. In my AR, i shot approximately 7k rounds, only had issues after 1000rds with it getting to dirty to be reliable. After the 7k rounds it was still firing fine. However, i did replace the barrel and extractor and gave it a good cleaning when I was done testing it. This was done over the course of about two summers. My 2 cents is this: You save enough by shooting steel to just buy an extra extractor and barrel or two. IMO steel cased is fine, i was pleased and continue to buy steel cased. Not nearly as much now that i have 2 kids under the age of 2 however.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Makwa said:


> A friend of mine from PA and I shot a pile of that Wolf ammo last summer. It's cheap but it was horribly dirty ammo.......... the AR's were jamming and absolutely FILTHY with crud after only about 50 rounds. Just an FYI.


Dunno sir I shoot it all the time and my guns don't jam. Honestly if an AR can't shoot 50 rounds of commercially produced ammo without jamming I would get rid of it for something a bit more robust. I've shot hundreds of rounds of steel cases through my Windham in a day never have had a problem with jamming. No idea what your gun doesn't like about it. I personally despise ammo-picky guns for SHTF use because you never know where your next box of reloads is coming from in a SHTF situation.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

I don't shoot steel cased ammo. I think it is just because I'm a snob.


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## bernzzii (Jan 21, 2014)

I don't get to shoot as much as I would like. On a plus side it allows me to slowly build up brass cased ammo with my weekly buys. S would really have to HTF to use the ammo I have saved up.

And this was finally my 100 post! (Took me long enough)


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

bernzzii said:


> And this was finally my 100 post! (Took me long enough)


Good job!


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## rice paddy daddy (Jul 17, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> It's the same deal as RPD posted, "Present ID, fill out BATFE form, pass call-in background check, pay money, walk out with gun." This also goes for handguns.


Florida does have a 3 day waiting period for handguns. Unless you have a concealed firearm license.


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## Conundrum99 (Feb 16, 2014)

Time to take a road trip south, come on down to WV will sell all the 380 jacket hole point you want.


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## bernzzii (Jan 21, 2014)

rice paddy daddy said:


> Florida does have a 3 day waiting period for handguns. Unless you have a concealed firearm license.


One positive of Minnesota I guess. Have a permit to purchase or permit to carry and walk out the same day, for both!


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## Seneca (Nov 16, 2012)

380 ammo can be spotty at times, even in states where they don't have their heads buried in the sand. If you don't reload then perhaps you should look into that. Steel cases are really not an issue for range or practice ammo. Any day at the range is a good day at the range, a perfect day at the range is when I find all my spent casings.


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## Sarkus (Sep 11, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> If there is a huge SHTF moment, you aren't going to be shooting thousands of rounds of ammo, that's many firefights with a semi-auto weapon. LOTS of firefights. If it comes to that, you will probably be dead.


Sure, but I'm saying in the long run I'd rather have the gun last longer then shorter if the SHTF isn't temporary and I do manage to survive that long. I didn't mention that the LuckyGunner test showed FTF and FTE was higher on the steel cased with their test weapons as well, so that's another reason I'd rather not rely on steel cased ammo for anything other then an AK.


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## alterego (Jan 27, 2013)

No bs you have to have a permit to buy ammo?

A BIG F U TO THAT.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

I will shoot any ammo with the exception of corrosive ammo. And even then I stockpile the corrosive stuff just in case...

If you shoot a lot then you should reload. Even if you only do a caliber or two. Just go buy a cheapo Lee Anniversary kit to start, try it, and if you like it then upgrade. If not then you're only out a buck twenty. Ammo is much cheaper, like a fifth of the cost, and a hundred times the variety. In a way a reloading rig is like a grown up junior-scientist-kit. But so much cheaper. I buy 100 projectiles for what you pay for 20 bullets (jacketed). The ratio increases to 500/20 if you are use lead.

Lead is dirty, and a lotta snobs disdain it, but I say they are nuts. Just be sure to have a few new bore brushes on hand in the right caliber, and a little Hoppe's lead solvent and they clean up fine. As long as your pistol does not use polygonal rifling like Glock or USP then you should be okay with lead. I just loaded some badass 45-70 with 400gr LRN, very hard lead, and they are thumpers. Kill anything native to the North American continent. But those rounds are death at one end, and injury at the other.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Sarkus said:


> Sure, but I'm saying in the long run I'd rather have the gun last longer then shorter if the SHTF isn't temporary and I do manage to survive that long. I didn't mention that the LuckyGunner test showed FTF and FTE was higher on the steel cased with their test weapons as well, so that's another reason I'd rather not rely on steel cased ammo for anything other then an AK.


I also would not use steel case in a SHTF for an AR. Then again, I have no intention of using an AR in a SHTF scenario, I am using my AK's. I have AR's because I like them, I just prefer the 7.62x39 round in my conditions (150 yards of clearing at the max, lots of brush).


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

rjd25 said:


> Ok, so here is my dilemma.... in the communist state of Connecticut certain calibers of ammo are hard to find and even if you do find some it may not be exactly what you want. I have been striving to increase the amount of ammo I have on hand for all calibers that I own. .380 ACP is very difficult to find around here and all I could find was TulAmmo which is steel cased. What are your thoughts on it? I have a knock around LCP that I paid 180$ for do you think the steel would damage the gun? Would it really matter in a SHTF?


Wolf steel case .380 caused several FTF malfunctions in my daughters LCP.


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## rjd25 (Nov 27, 2014)

keith9365 said:


> Wolf steel case .380 caused several FTF malfunctions in my daughters LCP.


I have heard bad things about Wolf in general. Thanks for the heads up.


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## jimb1972 (Nov 12, 2012)

I have only had trouble with steel cased handgun ammo in a couple striker fired pistols, it has worked very reliably in my hammer fired guns. At handgun velocities I doubt the bullet will wear the barrel any faster. I have had pretty good luck with silver bear rifle ammo, but I avoid the lacquer or polymer coated stuff.


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## Makwa (Dec 19, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Dunno sir I shoot it all the time and my guns don't jam. Honestly if an AR can't shoot 50 rounds of commercially produced ammo without jamming I would get rid of it for something a bit more robust. I've shot hundreds of rounds of steel cases through my Windham in a day never have had a problem with jamming. No idea what your gun doesn't like about it. I personally despise ammo-picky guns for SHTF use because you never know where your next box of reloads is coming from in a SHTF situation.


Not my gun............ belongs to my friend in PA. AR's are restricted in Canada, which means I can't use one here in the bush and can only use at a range for target shooting............. so I don't own one. Just relating my experience with the ammo in his AR's that we were shooting and all three of them were having the same issues. Have no idea what actual 'make' they were.


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