# Your bugout plans will probably get you killed



## tonybluegoat

I used to live in the Dallas. I started prepping in 2008. Normal suburban house with a swimming pool, stockpiled food, fuel, weapons, etc. and great ideas on how I would "Bug Out" when the SHTF. In 2011 I realized that in a real SHTF situation the suburbs are undefendable so I bought a 10 acre homestead and moved out to the country. It took close to 2 years before my neighbors (who also own 10 acres or more) started to really accept me. 2 years. They were nice, but I wasn't "part of the neighborhood." Once they did really start talking to me I realized that most of my supposed bug-out plans were stupid. Let me explain how. (I'm sure many will disagree.)

Here's what I learned after being accepted into the tribe, so to speak.

1. People already live in the country and you're not welcomed... especially in a SHTF scenario.

Country people are plenty nice and most of them go to church. My neighbor does. He even has 3 wooden crosses up on the hill behind his house. Nice, Christian fellow.... except he has shot a man before... the Sheriff's son to be exact. He has also shot up a truck that kept coming down our dirt road thinking it was someplace they could party.... 30 rounds from an AK-47. They didn't come back. He can shoot a Coke can at 100 yards with a Bow and Arrow, and shoot the eyes out of Deer at twice that distance. 

I asked him one day, "What is your defense plan if people from the city want to come out here?" 

He said... "we are 2 hours outside of Dallas... I doubt they would get this far."

I said, "but what if they did? Would we put a road block on the end of the dirt road or what?"

What he said changed my entire idea of bugging out.

He said, "We'll cut the road... The blacktop County Road next to the bridge. We will take Johnny's bulldozer and rip the road out if we have to. I don't think we will need to because I doubt people will get this far without getting shot or robbed or just giving up."

That's when I realized that these people don't mess around. That neighbor is a welder so he has the tools to cut through just about anything. My other neighbor moves buildings for a living. He has big trucks and bulldozers and such. They both have criminal records and they both can shoot like nobody's business. Up the ridge is their cousins and brothers... same story.

The point is this. If they want to kill me and take my preps they can do it, no problem. They probably won't because we have a relationship now (after 7 years) and we share resources. I have solar power that can be useful and some equipment. Plus, they don't need my preps. They have cattle, family, gardens, chickens, church, etc.

Then I imagined trying to drive my city SUV full of food and fuel with the family on board out of the Dallas and across East Texas.

First, the SUV would be a major target. It's not only full of supplies... it would LOOK LIKE it was full of supplies. Yes I have an AR-15 and Glock21 and shotgun and 30-30 and tons of ammo. But I'm only one person. IF I get out of the city without running into a roadblock put up by local gang members, criminals and such, I would be lucky.

Jason Bourne is fictional. Rambo is fictional. Even if they weren't they don't get in gunfights with the kids in the backseat. All of my guns are pointless if I don't have community... a group of people. I was a Combat Engineer in the Army... Guess what... when Army Soldiers drive across hostile terrain it's in a convoy with lots and lots of guns, communication and air cover not too far away. Soldiers don't drive across hostile territory alone with their wife and kids in the back seat. And they are trained and legally empowered to shoot people. Imagine trying to do it as an accountant who plays soldier a few times a year and who has never really shot anyone (or been shot at) before. (In Basic Training you run assaults with live ammo being shot over your head and simulated munitions going off. And that's just Basic.)

Imagine this scenaro.... You have all your stuff loaded up and you make it out of the city. You think you're away from people because you're on a two lane blacktop with tall trees on each side. Traffic is light. Then you get to a line of stopped cars. There's a detour. The road is out... taken out by a bulldozer... but there's a bypass around the block ... also made by the same bulldozer. You and your wife start arguing about whether to turn back or not. By the time you think you might turn around it's your turn to "go around." But there's a blockaid in the woods. 12 guys next to a building, all armed, most in uniforms of some sort. What do you do? You're in a man-trap. You can't back up, there are cars behind you. You can't go forward, there are concrete blocks in the way. This looks pretty "official" and anyway there's a guy with a gun standing outside the passenger window next to your kid and wife. Even if you do someone shoot someone, your kids and wife won't make it.

Before you can clear your head a is guy in tapping the barrel of his AR against he window... "Roll the window down, sir. It's fine. We are just trying to keep the road free of thieves." 

One thing leads to another... you step out of the SUV to go talk to the head honcho in the building. "It'll be OK" you think. You step in the building, the guy behind you closes the door and cuts your throat. One of the guys outside gets in the driver's seat and drive the SUV with your family behind an opening in the fence. Not a shot was fired.

That's one scenario. Alternately they only take half your stuff and let you head down the road until you hit another road block.

"What about the national guard?" Half the guys outside the building are FROM the National Guard base in town. Do you think they want you coming out there either? Nope.

ANOTHER SCENARIO - BUGOUT LOCATION

You buy a few acres in the woods. You bring out a 40' storage container and drop it out there to store all of your PREPS! You have a couple ATV's and chainsaws. You clear out some land and start to build a cabin. Everyone is nice as they can be. You fill your container with food, water, guns, ammo, supplies of all type for any situation. You even have it partitioned off so you have a "Gun Room" with extra security in the back to keep your guns safe. You are READY!

But you don't live there. You live in the city. You work at a corporation.

One day you go out there to check things out and your stuff is all gone. Maybe the container is still there or maybe the entire thing was simply pulled up onto the back end of a portable building moving truck and taken away in one go. The same guy who delivered it for you in the first place, just UNDELIVERED it. Nobody saw a thing.

Or maybe just a couple meth-heads cut through your locks with their dad's torch and stole everything to buy drugs.

THE REALITY

Everybody who drives down a country road is noticed by everybody who lives on that road. When a strange vehicle drives down the dirt road that I live on I get at least 2 texts... one from my sister-in-law who lives 500' one way and one from my truck shooting neighbor who lives 1000' the other way. "Do you know anyone with a blue Dodge? He just drove slow down OUR road." That's because the road is OUR'S, the bridge is OUR'S, the County Road is OUR'S. That how they think.

Everybody in each little corner of the woods knows everyone else's business. When the ambulance came last month down our road, we all knew before it left that the lady down the road had been thrown off a horse and broke her back. There are no secrets, no caches, nothing is "private."

SO WHAT WOULD I DO NOW KNOWING WHAT I KNOW, IF I STILL LIVED IN THE CITY AND WANTED TO BUG OUT?

I would buy some body bags and have some magnetic signs made for my vehicle. I would buy some tyvec coveralls, so big blue rubber gloves, blue duct tape and gas masks. And I would have a bunch of flyers printed out.

Why? Because you can't shoot your way through the country. You'll need to be smarter than that.

What would the magnetic signs say? "BIO-HAZARD --- CONTAMINATED BODY TRANSPORT -- LEVEL 4 HAZMAT SUITS REQUIRED -- WARNING!"

What would the fliers say? "SYMPTOMS - Coughing, Bloodshot eyes, Bloody Discharge, Sores on the Skin. If you see anyone with these symptoms call the CDC immediately. DO NOT BURN BODIES, IT WILL MAKE THE VIRUS AIRBORNE."

I would hide the kids in the back seat if we got around any people and would put on my gas mask. I would already have on the tyvec suit, and gloves and have my wrists obviously taped with the blue tape. If anyone came near my vehicle I would yell loudly, because of the gas mask.... "DO YOU HAVE ANY CONTAMINATED BODIES HERE? WE ARE HERE FOR CONTAMINATED BODIES. DO NOT BURN BODIES YOU WILL AEROSOL THE VIRUS!" and the like.

What are the body bags for? I would put all my preps in the body bags with big stickers that say "BIOHAZARD - LEVEL 4 - DO NOT OPEN OR BURN"

Most people believe what they see. In a crisis they will already be scared. You can't beat many guns with one gun. But you can win the psychological war.

I would have a piece of land that I own that I can bug out to. The further you have to drive the more dangerous it would be. But if you get out early then you can get to where you are going before the locals start getting really clever. 

More than anything, don't look like a PREPPER. There's a guy in my town who looks like a prepper. He has a Hummer with all kinds of stickers and flags and extra places for gas cans (that he keeps on the car). He's a genius. If I need more preps I know exactly who to follow home one night.

Here's the scenario... you know he's armed and ready for a fight. Wait until dark then go and catch his shed on fire. Slip back into the woods... I won't have to go far, maybe 50-100 feet because the fire will make him blind to the dark. When he comes out shoot him. His wife probably wouldn't even notice the gunshot with all the commotion. When she comes to the body to see why he fell down, shoot her too.

See, there are no zombies. Nobody is going to come dragging their feet and yelling, "I'm going to kill you" as you point your gun out the window and do some western movie stand-off. You won't see it coming.

TRUE STORY

When I was in the city I bought some guns. I called a friend and said, "I'm armed now. I can defend my house against anything."

An hour later the my car alarm went off in the driveway. I turned it off with the key fob then walked outside to look around. As I turned the corner he punched me in the back of the head. He was behind the edge of the entrance. He said, "Guns won't help you because you're an idiot." yes, that guy had spent some time in jail as well.

Nice, suburban, business working people don't stand a chance against criminals. They are stronger, tougher, meaner and smarter than you are. They've been ripping people off their whole life. You're new to trying to not get ripped off. 

Something to think about.

What are my preps?

10 acres on a private road
Neighbors who like me
My brother (former outlaw biker) lives 500' down the dirt road - I brought his family out here for backup - and yes he had put many people in the hospital
Goats, chickens, meat rabbits
Garden
Orchard
3500 Watt solar array
1000 gallon Diesel tank (not much in it, but I have it)
250 gallon propane tank
Generators
Wood burning stove
Converted gas stove where the oven will still operate even with no electricity (In case you didn't know all modern gas ovens are electrically controlled. They will not work in a blackout. The stove top will but not the oven.)
250 gallon gasoline tank (with ethanol free gas in it)
Two Hybrid cars (45 mpg)
EMP Proof F-350 truck
Ethanol fuel production with a car that has been converted
Moonshine production (for the neighbors) I have an alcohol production permit
Tractor
Multiple buildings
900 lbs of dry good food storage plus 400 cans of food
Well water plus water storage
Army Training

Every month I add more food so I can give some away.

And with all that... if my neighbor wants to shoot me I'll never see it coming. So I'm nice... and I share... and my preps don't look like preps... When the SHTF I will go begging my neighbors for food just like everyone else.... I talk a lot about being poor. I never talk about having stuff. A year after I got the fuel tanks I told my neighbors I couldn't use them. One "has a leak" the other is for gasoline and gas with ethanol can't be stored. Plus I don't have enough money to fill them up anyway. Psychological Warfare is better than Guns in most situations.

I'm always open to new ideas.

Here's my home defense plan, in the rare instance that a truck full of guys with guns shows up. I WILL LEAVE. I will leave out the back door, out the window, out however I can. I will run away. I have a sniper rifle and ammo stored in the woods along with a ghillie suit, and I know the terrain. If they want to take some of my preps, let them take them and leave. If they find my real preps then shoot them between the truck and the house. If they hunker down and decide to move in... remember the shed burning plan. Same thing only I would light their truck on fire. I would probably head over to my neighbors' houses and get some backup. My brother, my neighbor who shot the sheriff's son. They would be useful in this situation.

What do you do with the bodies? That's what the tractor is for.


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## Mad Trapper

tonybluegoat said:


> I used to live in the Dallas.
> 
> I'm always open to new ideas.


Nice intro.

No wonder new neighbors hate you.

I'll let the others flame you, first. Don't burn your bridges before you cross them.


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## Smitty901

Not leaving I am staying put . Not recommend anyone come here with any hostile intent. What is hostel intent? We will make that call at the time.


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## paraquack

Unless the water is lapping at the back door, my plan is also to stay put. I'll use subterfuge to hopeful keep 
the riff raff out of my subdivision and a way from my house. Fortunately there are plenty of coyotes and 
javelinas to take care of the bodies here in the desert. If conditions or trigger points necessitate my bugging 
out, I have a relatively decent group to join up with. Maybe after a month when most of the morons have 
died off, I'll think about bugging out.


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## Elvis

At least the OP has executed his plan instead of just thinking about it. He just put more information out there about his preps and mindset that most of us do in a single post and he's proud of getting out of the city. I've got to admit that I'm also a bit proud of having some preps and living in a rural area, I just don't put as much detail in a single post as he did.

So I guess I'll say welcome to tonybluegoat and maybe he'll add some useful knowledge to this site.


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## hawgrider

You lost me at

"I used to live in Dallas"


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## tonybluegoat

The good news is the chances are the shit will never hit hit the fan. I just like preparing... the Eagle Scout in me. The fact is that most people aren't really prepared. I'm not as prepared as I think I am. 

Occasionally I will run a test.

Big thunderstorm hits... grab my bug-out bag, go on a 5 mile hike in the storm then end up in the woods on my property. Set up and maintain a campsite in the rain for 48 hours. You find out really quick how good your rain gear is, and how wet water is.

When I lived in Dallas (suburbs) I would do backpack bugouts where I would have to travel 5 miles without using any roads. It's amazing if you look (and ignore fences) how easy it is to move through the suburbs without being seen by anyone on the roads. There are fields, creeks, transmission line corridors, railroad tracks. And even unused land next to the road where you can hike 75 feet off the road behind the bushes and trees without being seen. I would take 3-4 hours. It's slow going when you are breaking trail and climbing fences, or walking down a creek bed.

The stock of most cheap 22 rifles are hollow. Open it up. Stick whatever preps you can fit inside it and inside the hollow stock under the barrel. Then head out into the woods with just the .22. Come back 48 hours later.... you'll learn a lot in a short amount of time. 

What else have I done? Tape cash money onto poles at set intervals along your escape route. About every hour from my house in 3 different directions I have $40 taped around a pole next to a gas station. That way if I ever have to bug out with no money for gas I know where I can get some. It costs nothing to do this prep. The money isn't going anywhere. You can retrieve it anytime you need to. Hint: don't tape it to any poles that are painted, only to galvanized poles. Why because if they ever repaint the pole they will remove your tape. On galvanized poles the tape will never be disturbed. I use pink duct tape. So if you ever see pink duct tape around a galvanized pole in Texas there is probably $40 under it.

Question: What type of railroad car is best to climb onto. the answer is not boxcar because they keep them closed and locked. Where in your area do the trains stop or slow down enough that if you wanted to get out of the AO without using the roads you could?

Thought: Pull up google maps for your area, instead of looking at the roads, look for creeks, they are ready exits from town. Railroad tracks are similar. Transmission lines are OK but they can pass right over rivers or unwalkable areas, so you have to recon. 

Where is there water that you could collect near your neighborhood? Ponds, creeks, swimming pools?

If you want to be a prepper you should be prepared. Most people aren't preppers, they are spenders. You can't buy preparedness. How far can you run without stopping over cleared ground like a road? How long does it take to hike 5 miles with a 40 lb pack with no trail?

Did you know that hiking in shin high grass first thing in the morning will make your boots the same wet as walking ankle deep in a creek for 3 minutes? Guess how I found that out? 

Always carry gloves in your bug-out bag. Hiking cross country without them will tear up your hands. Guess how I found that out. Most people have never walked off the path in the woods for more than a few minutes. Hiking on a path or jogging on a road are not the same as breaking trail. Yes, you need a machete in your bugout bag. 

You are 100x more likely to get bug bites, blisters, rashes in the crotch and diarrhea than it is likely you will be shot.

Know how to start an IV and keep saline solution in your trauma first aid kit. If you know a nurse or you see some in your ER room on the next visit get some Lidocaine. It's valuable if you need to give yourself (or someone else) stitches. Skin staple are easier to give than stitches, btw.

Hunting is hard! Squirrels in the city are stupid. Squirrels in the woods are smart.

Imagine if a drunk, stinking, homeless person was banging around in your kitchen at 2 am. That's why most hunters look and smell like to deer in the woods.


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## WhatTheHeck

How do you EMP proof a F-350?

I would like to meet anyone who can shoot a coke can from 100yards with a bow and arrow.


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## jimb1972

My bug out location is a friends place, it was his fathers place before him. The trick is to realize TSHTF before most people smell it.


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## tonybluegoat

I lost $10 by betting that he couldn't do it. This guy hunts constantly. He shoots through at least $1000 worth of ammo a year. And he has been doing it all his life. Never a city boy.


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## tonybluegoat

jimb1972 said:


> My bug out location is a friends place, it was his fathers place before him. The trick is to realize TSHTF before most people smell it.


Yerp!


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## MisterMills357

tonybluegoat said:


> I used to live in the Dallas. [You have my condolences.MM357]
> 
> Here's what I learned after being accepted into the tribe, so to speak.
> 
> 1. People already live in the country and you're not welcomed... especially in a SHTF scenario.[ I don't care if I am welcomed or scorned, and I would expect antipathy from everyone that I met.MM357]
> He can shoot a Coke can at 100 yards with a Bow and Arrow, and shoot the eyes out of Deer at twice that distance. [I stink with a rifle, so I use a shotgun and pistol, I can be impressive too.MM357]
> 
> I asked him one day, "What is your defense plan if people from the city want to come out here?" He said... "we are 2 hours outside of Dallas... I doubt they would get this far." [They will get that far, expect that to happen.MM357]
> 
> I said, "but what if they did? Would we put a road block on the end of the dirt road or what?" What he said changed my entire idea of bugging out.
> 
> He said, "We'll cut the road... The blacktop County Road next to the bridge. We will take Johnny's bulldozer and rip the road out if we have to. I don't think we will need to because I doubt people will get this far without getting shot or robbed or just giving up." [Desperate people do desperate things, so expect some of them to make it that far.MM357]
> 
> Then I imagined trying to drive my city SUV full of food and fuel with the family on board out of the Dallas and across East Texas.
> 
> First, the SUV would be a major target. It's not only full of supplies... it would LOOK LIKE it was full of supplies. Yes I have an AR-15 and Glock21 and shotgun and 30-30 and tons of ammo. But I'm only one person. IF I get out of the city without running into a roadblock put up by local gang members, criminals and such, I would be lucky. [Hide out, for as long as possible, stay put and live. Be prepared to kill any intruder, but never kill the innocent, bring them in and help them, if you can. That will aid you in the long run.MM357]
> 
> Jason Bourne is fictional. Rambo is fictional. Even if they weren't they don't get in gunfights with the kids in the backseat. All of my guns are pointless if I don't have community... a group of people.
> [Let the sitrep resolve itself a bit, before you pick your social group; they could be cannibals for all that you know. Let them prove their goodness to you, over time; and if they are good, you win allies. If they are evil, banish them, and if they come back, get wide open on them.MM357]
> 
> What do you do? You're in a man-trap. You can't back up, there are cars behind you. You can't go forward, there are concrete blocks in the way. This looks pretty "official" and anyway there's a guy with a gun standing outside the passenger window next to your kid and wife.[If the guy is right next to you with a gun, then you are at his mercy, and there is no good solution, so you may get killed. Go out shooting, and die with honor.MM357]
> 
> Before you can clear your head a is guy in tapping the barrel of his AR against he window... "Roll the window down, sir. It's fine. We are just trying to keep the road free of thieves."
> 
> One thing leads to another... you step out of the SUV to go talk to the head honcho in the building. "It'll be OK" you think. You step in the building, the guy behind you closes the door and cuts your throat. One of the guys outside gets in the driver's seat and drive the SUV with your family behind an opening in the fence. Not a shot was fired. [Like I said, go down shooting, since any group should be considered hostile, until proven friendly.]MM357


Welcome to the forum friend, and I hope that my replies make sense to you: because sometimes the right thing to do is to be ruthless; and sometimes the right thing is to be kind; it is all relative to circumstance.


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## Kauboy

tonybluegoat said:


> So if you ever see pink duct tape around a galvanized pole in Texas there is probably $40 under it.


Noted...
I hide mine behind "WARNING: HIGH VOLTAGE" signs. Feel free to find them!


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## MI.oldguy

What is this "Bugging out"you speak of?.


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## tonybluegoat

MisterMills357 said:


> Welcome to the forum friend, and I hope that my replies make sense to you: because sometimes the right thing to do is to be ruthless; and sometimes the right thing is to be kind; it is all relative to circumstance.


I can dig it!

"Go down shooting." The problem with TV and imagined scenarios is that they are black and white, and generally it all happens in a short amount of time. What if the choice is not to fight, you probably die. Your wife and kids probably live? The real problem is that is almost never that clear and most of the time when it is that clear (in the civilian world at least) you're already behind the curve. Because the person who made it "clear" was already planning what he was going to do.

A pregnant girl and a dirty teenaged guy walk up to your car begging for food. At what point do you shoot them? When you see them? As they walk up? When they start talking? When they get to the window? (Oops, it was a trick question because their friend just shot you from the passenger side.) Criminals aren't zombies.

"Sitrep?" Military? You're right about hunking down. The biggest mistake people make is rushing into things. I think! Or did I rush to that conclusion?


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## Mad Trapper

tonybluegoat said:


> I lost $10 by betting that he couldn't do it. This guy hunts constantly. He shoots through at least $1000 worth of ammo a year. And he has been doing it all his life. Never a city boy.


I've got an old browning take down 22LR, I can do cans/bottles offhand pretty good at 100 yds, bow and arrow, no way.

I used to shoot bow enough so my aluminum arrows got to be silver. I could do well out to 50 yds. I would practice at 20 , 30, 40 , 50 every day. Three shots at each distance until I did my "zero", about a 4" group at each yardage. I was real happy w/4" groups at 50 yds. I was shooting bare finger back then (owch!). I can't shoot that well now, would take months of practice.


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## Kauboy

By definition, you cannot train for the unexpected. Posing impossible scenarios is not a way to get people thinking.


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## tonybluegoat

WhatTheHeck said:


> How do you EMP proof a F-350?.


Yes, 1996 F350 with a 1992 5.2l International Direct Injection engine in it. Why the combination? Because the 1992 truck with the engine in it had an automatic transmission. Automatic transmissions are not EMP Proof. So, no electronic fuel injectors. Manual injection. Mechanical fuel lift. Diesel. I disconnected almost all of the electronics. I put in a push button start directly connected. So you end up with minimal electronics. Battery, Alternator was converted to a "single wire" so it didn't require the dash electronics... I could bypass the solenoid if I needed to. Fuel preheater on the fuel filter. I'm no mechanic, btw. It's the best I could cobble together.

Solar Flare EMP's affect the Earth... they make the earth a conductor and short out long wires and grounded things... like transformers and transmission lines.

Nuclear EMP's affect small electronics... hopefully the starter and alternator would survive. BTW, the farther South one is the less affected one would be from a probably nuclear EMP. Those would be targeted to the north of the country - Rogue State theory - near the East Coast.

So, to summarize.... TO MAKE AN EMP PROOF TRUCK - it must be diesel, but have mechanical fuel injection, not electric fuel injections. It must be manual transmission because there are circuits in automatic transmissions. You must disconnect all small electronics that might keep the truck from running. One wire alternator to bypass the alternator (charge) control lights on the dash. You need as mechanical a starting system as possible. no small electronics making any choices. No computers. You have to be crazy and have money to spend. I live in the country. I already had the 1992 f250 with the proper engine. I bought the 1996 F350 with the proper transmission and the body I wanted for $1,200 with a blown engine. The rest was just work. I paid a mechanic $550 to do it for me.... (country, stuff is cheap)

I also own a couple older motorcycles (simple electronics). Now that I think about it I could make a Faraday Cage Motorcycle Garage. That wouldn't be too hard. Then I could park my bikes in an EMP Proof Garage. HEY! I may just do that!!

In the picture of the truck you can see the back corner of an old Saturn (1996 I think). I swapped out the jets in the carburetor so it will run on Alcohol that I make myself.  Prepper's gotta prep. I would have switch the truck over to biodiesel but making that stuff is really expensive, and you can't drink it. Fuel alcohol is moonshine by another name.

Now that I REALLY think about it, I have an extra set of carbs for the motorcycles (they are both the same year, make, model). I should take that extra set of carbs and start converting them over to run on FUEL ALCOHOL. Then I could just swap out the carbs if there is a gas disruptions, and run on Moonshine. I even have an extra gas tank. So i could have a dedicated tank/carb setup that I could throw on a bike at any time. I love this forum. It's full of new ideas!


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## MisterMills357

tonybluegoat said:


> I can dig it!
> 
> "Go down shooting." The problem with TV and imagined scenarios is that they are black and white, and generally it all happens in a short amount of time. What if the choice is not to fight, you probably die. Your wife and kids probably live? The real problem is that is almost never that clear and most of the time when it is that clear (in the civilian world at least) you're already behind the curve. Because the person who made it "clear" was already planning what he was going to do.
> 
> A pregnant girl and a dirty teenaged guy walk up to your car begging for food. At what point do you shoot them? When you see them? As they walk up? When they start talking? When they get to the window? (Oops, it was a trick question because their friend just shot you from the passenger side.) Criminals aren't zombies.
> 
> "Sitrep?" Military? You're right about hunking down. The biggest mistake people make is rushing into things. I think! Or did I rush to that conclusion?


Anyone an everyone that is in a meltdown sitrep understands some things by inference, such as do not approach anyone's car without first announcing your intentions. And they better be good ones too.
Next, for anyone in the car, their radar would be going nuts, if someone approached them, for any reason. They might simply pull away and leave or they might take defensive positions, and start killing some punks.
No situation is static, and the aggressor is not always the winner, a thought out defense is pretty hard to overcome. But, the defense must be carried out, and not simply an exercise in logic.


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## tonybluegoat

Kauboy said:


> By definition, you cannot train for the unexpected. Posing impossible scenarios is not a way to get people thinking.


I always like "senior members." they know so much.

"Prepping" by definition is preparing for impossible scenarios that will never, ever, ever happen.

"Being Prepared" = jumper cables, AAA, a good spare tire, and some extra cash in case you lose your wallet, first aid kit for boo-boo's, etc.

"Prepping" = Guns, Stockpiles, Tsunami, Nuclear Disaster, Zombie Apocolypse, Pandemic! So, yea. Prepping is where middle aged white guys with too much money and too much time on their hands imagine fantastic scenarios where they get to be the hero and outsmart all the poor zombie people who so silly that they don't think a Tsunami will hit Oregon or Yellowstone won't Erupt, or, or, or...

There are people who live in war zones who walk through life without stockpiles of food and guns, etc. It takes a special amount of excess everything to be a prepper... mostly excess money and imagination.


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## tonybluegoat

Mad Trapper said:


> I've got an old browning take down 22LR, I can do cans/bottles offhand pretty good at 100 yds, bow and arrow, no way.
> 
> I used to shoot bow enough so my aluminum arrows got to be silver. I could do well out to 50 yds. I would practice at 20 , 30, 40 , 50 every day. Three shots at each distance until I did my "zero", about a 4" group at each yardage. I was real happy w/4" groups at 50 yds. I was shooting bare finger back then (owch!). I can't shoot that well now, would take months of practice.


I was drinking.... maybe it was 100 feet.  The guy's a good shot


----------



## Chipper

First I'm one of those people. Yes I have a personal relationship with everybody in 3-5 square miles or more, but I've lived here for over 50 years. You are 100% correct we know when a strange vehicle is in the neighborhood. None of this BS that you will be welcome for what ever reason/fantasy you have made up in your mind. Good to see some of you understand how the situation will be. Needs to be talked about more as this BO "dream" keeps coming up. 

Never heard of a 5.2l Ford diesel?? However I have three 7.3 IDI, for some reason. Guess I'm under the delusion anybody will be safely able to drive some place with out getting shot. Specially with one of those loud rattling 7.3 IDI diesels. May I suggest a motorcycle and try to be stealthy.


----------



## Kauboy

tonybluegoat said:


> I always like "senior members." they know so much.
> 
> "Prepping" by definition is preparing for impossible scenarios that will never, ever, ever happen.
> 
> "Being Prepared" = jumper cables, AAA, a good spare tire, and some extra cash in case you lose your wallet, first aid kit for boo-boo's, etc.
> 
> "Prepping" = Guns, Stockpiles, Tsunami, Nuclear Disaster, Zombie Apocolypse, Pandemic! So, yea. Prepping is where middle aged white guys with too much money and too much time on their hands imagine fantastic scenarios where they get to be the hero and outsmart all the poor zombie people who so silly that they don't think a Tsunami will hit Oregon or Yellowstone won't Erupt, or, or, or...
> 
> There are people who live in war zones who walk through life without stockpiles of food and guns, etc. It takes a special amount of excess everything to be a prepper... mostly excess money and imagination.


The impossible scenario was your "trick question" shot in the back situation.
These are irritatingly pointless mind games that serve no purpose.

"Being prepared" is an attempt to account for things you are likely to encounter. (AKA "expected" things)
If you never see the "shot in the back" (or other such scenario) coming, you'll never be able to account for it.
You CANNOT prepare for the thing you never knew was a threat. That's my point.

Not sure what the "senior member" comment was intended to imply. It's based on post count alone, and denotes NOTHING about knowledge, intellect, or wisdom. It only reveals participation.


----------



## The Tourist

Mel Tappan wrote decades ago that you should move into a neighborhood years from some form of civil calamity. You have to get the newbie smell off of you.

But this relates to something I've always felt. No one man can know it all, we all have a talent that would work in conjunction with the talents of others. I cast perfect bullets and had six pound canisters of Alcan AL-8, which works in any firearm.

A doctor or a surgical nurse would be a good thing to find, as well.


----------



## Illini Warrior

sorry - but this OP posting reminds me tooooo much of another prepper on another site ...

one of the few black preppers on the sites - lives in Detroit - claims to be a conservative GOPers but quotes Jesse, Rev Al and the XMan - won't accept anything but anything said about blacks much less Detroit ...

plans on bugging south to OH land he purchased >>>>> just can't understand why the neighbors down there don't like him and won't accept him .....

and I was always able to shut him down - just asked him why he needed to bug out of Detroit if his fellow blacks were as gracious & law abiding as he always claimed ....


----------



## tonybluegoat

Chipper said:


> First I'm one of those people. Yes I have a personal relationship with everybody in 3-5 square miles or more, but I've lived here for over 50 years. You are 100% correct we know when a strange vehicle is in the neighborhood. None of this BS that you will be welcome for what ever reason/fantasy you have made up in your mind. Good to see some of you understand how the situation will be. Needs to be talked about more as this BO "dream" keeps coming up.
> 
> Never heard of a 5.2l Ford diesel?? However I have three 7.3 IDI, for some reason. Guess I'm under the delusion anybody will be safely able to drive some place with out getting shot. Specially with one of those loud rattling 7.3 IDI diesels. May I suggest a motorcycle and try to be stealthy.


7.3L that's the one. I knew I was getting that wrong but didn't care enough to look up the right answer. 7.3L IDI from a 92 F250. Thank you.


----------



## tonybluegoat

Kauboy said:


> The impossible scenario was your "trick question" shot in the back situation.
> These are irritatingly pointless mind games that serve no purpose.
> 
> "Being prepared" is an attempt to account for things you are likely to encounter. (AKA "expected" things)
> If you never see the "shot in the back" (or other such scenario) coming, you'll never be able to account for it.
> You CANNOT prepare for the thing you never knew was a threat. That's my point.
> 
> Not sure what the "senior member" comment was intended to imply. It's based on post count alone, and denotes NOTHING about knowledge, intellect, or wisdom. It only reveals participation.


I like arguing and my wife won't play anymore.


----------



## tonybluegoat

The Tourist said:


> Mel Tappan wrote decades ago that you should move into a neighborhood years from some form of civil calamity. You have to get the newbie smell off of you.
> 
> But this relates to something I've always felt. No one man can know it all, we all have a talent that would work in conjunction with the talents of others. I cast perfect bullets and had six pound canisters of Alcan AL-8, which works in any firearm.
> 
> A doctor or a surgical nurse would be a good thing to find, as well.


I'm diggin' what your're puttin' out!


----------



## tonybluegoat

Illini Warrior said:


> sorry - but this OP posting reminds me tooooo much of another prepper on another site ...
> 
> one of the few black preppers on the sites - lives in Detroit - claims to be a conservative GOPers but quotes Jesse, Rev Al and the XMan - won't accept anything but anything said about blacks much less Detroit ...
> 
> plans on bugging south to OH land he purchased >>>>> just can't understand why the neighbors down there don't like him and won't accept him .....
> 
> and I was always able to shut him down - just asked him why he needed to bug out of Detroit if his fellow blacks were as gracious & law abiding as he always claimed ....


No, I think you're being 100% perfectly crystal clear. You're a racist. Got it... Hii yaaa yaa yaa Hii YAAA YAA YAA. Go forth and prosper. I'm a 2nd generation Pollack, but you're probably ok with that because at least I'm white. Do me a favor. Clean your gun while it's loaded.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

No need to bug out, we're already here.
As far as EMP proofing things, a simple solar flare wouldn't do it, and a nuclear weapon going off close enough to fry the electronics in my truck would probably fry me as well.

So, we live rurally, grow our own food, raise livestock, and try to be right with our Lord and Savior. Because, sooner or later, we are all going to die.
And yes, Jesus is OK with self defense. (See Luke 22:36-38)


----------



## StratMaster

I have a Bugout PLAN, but it is LAST on my list of choices... merely part of an overall outline that tries to predict/include everything from small inconvenient scenarios all the way up to worst case scenario. I live very close to wilderness lined with old logging roads... I can get away and disappear very quickly and have alternate routes... even if, say, the National Guard was blocking most roads. I could easily live in those deep woods 2-3 years if I had to, with what I have prepared. Who would want to? I am in not-so-great health these days, in my 60's as well. So even in the worst case scenario, at this point I may merely don a bando of buckshot, grab my 12 gauge, and chop wood until I go down. Getting too old to run I guess LOL, but I can take a few with me.


----------



## bigwheel

Having given this topic some thought when the ammo is on the verge of running out..save the last few rounds for yourself ..the dog ect. What the crazy Dallas ******* have in mind for the evil white folks just not sure. They will find our guns hot and empty in Foat Wurth.


----------



## RJAMES

Agree you need a community .


----------



## Lunatic Wrench

Those are some pretty heavy scenarios. 
There are countless ways a bug out could fail, a toasted wheel bearing putting you on foot and a run in with an unsavoury individual(s), a mob, bandits, before you even get out of town.

I initially had the notion of bugging out but I don't have the income to buy BO property so I'd have a tent in my BOB, but as I learned a thing or three and thought about it, who I'll have in tow, where I am and how I would get out of here to the hills, I realized the best thing to do was hunker down, at least initially.


----------



## tonybluegoat

Lunatic Wrench said:


> Those are some pretty heavy scenarios.
> There are countless ways a bug out could fail, a toasted wheel bearing putting you on foot and a run in with an unsavoury individual(s), a mob, bandits, before you even get out of town.
> 
> I initially had the notion of bugging out but I don't have the income to buy BO property so I'd have a tent in my BOB, but as I learned a thing or three and thought about it, who I'll have in tow, where I am and how I would get out of here to the hills, I realized the best thing to do was hunker down, at least initially.


A well practiced plan that you are entirely committed to is better than a lot of general ideas and half-assed preparations. If we think about what we are really committed to doing and focus on that, then we have a much higher success rate. What I learned in Boy Scouts, in the Army, and as a network manager/exec is that any plan without practice is nothing more than blind hope.

The most basic element in any disaster is a loss of electricity. Anyone can go to their main breaker and shut it off for 24, 36, 48, or 72 hours and find out what preps work and what preps need improvement. The main thing is to do it without any "extra" preparation. Just shut it off - preferably when it's dark outside.

What lessons are learned very quickly include:
1. I don't have flashlights in enough locations.
2. The water in the hot water heater gets cold pretty quickly once you start using it.
3. There is absolutely nothing to do.

Another valuable prep test is to have someone randomly call you and when they call you have to grab your bug-out bag, don't change clothes or shoes, hike 2.5 miles away from your house then back and set up camp in the back yard. You can't use anything that's not on your person or in your bag. Go at least 24 hours.

Another
Have your wife or someone take your wallet at a random time. Go the next 5 days without it. No cards, no ID, and no money that you didn't have stored somewhere else. No assistance.

Another
Imagine the was a cyber attack, the gas pumps don't work anymore in the city. How long can you go on what you have stored.

These are are basic exercises, they aren't even that complicated. Most people won't even do them. This doesn't including having someone - or multiple people - do assault runs on your house with plastic guns that shoot plastic pellets or the like.

Without actual practice prepping is nothing more than spending money buying crap. No more useful than joining a bowling league.

****************************

Whatever you are going to do... commit to it. Whatever disaster you truly think will happen, what are you doing to actually test your preps.

If you think an EMP will shut down all electronics, including your car, then figure out how you are going to get from your work to your house without it. Do some test runs. If you're like most people you live 20 miles from your work. Can you cover that distance? Do you have what you need in the trunk of your car to do it? The stores will all be closed. Nowhere to get a bottle of water. A lot of people can't walk 20 miles. They think they can, but they burn out within 10.

If you think your going to hike to 50 miles away over 2 days then try it. Hike a 25 mile route away from your house and then back... camp out in the back yard... then get up the next day and finish the last 25 miles. (I did it... what did I learn? I need to keep plenty of pain reliever in my bugout bag and some sleeping pills. Trying to sleep on the ground after walking 25 miles is tough. You're sore as hell. The next day your feet are really sore. Those new "hiking" boots are great at making blisters)

Without practice it's just mental masturbation. Pick a plan and put it into action. In a real SHTF situation people aren't going to get shot... they are going to quit. Give up. Sit down. Stop trying because of lack of conditioning. Lack of practice. Frustration. The great coach Jimmy Johnson said, "Fatigue makes cowards of us all."

Most preppers don't prepare. They go out to eat at Chili's and go home and watch Monday Night Football... then repeat and repeat. They are preparing for failure ... while spending money on "stuff." Another gun won't help you if you haven't practiced what you'll do the other 99.99% of the time you aren't using it.


----------



## mc3330803

Good thread, it gives a different view to the idea of bugging out. Some stuff that didn't really cross my mind.


----------



## Lunatic Wrench

tonybluegoat said:


> A well practiced plan that you are entirely committed to is better than a lot of general ideas and half-assed preparations. If we think about what we are really committed to doing and focus on that, then we have a much higher success rate. What I learned in Boy Scouts, in the Army, and as a network manager/exec is that any plan without practice is nothing more than blind hope.
> 
> The most basic element in any disaster is a loss of electricity. Anyone can go to their main breaker and shut it off for 24, 36, 48, or 72 hours and find out what preps work and what preps need improvement. The main thing is to do it without any "extra" preparation. Just shut it off - preferably when it's dark outside.
> 
> What lessons are learned very quickly include:
> 1. I don't have flashlights in enough locations.
> 2. The water in the hot water heater gets cold pretty quickly once you start using it.
> 3. There is absolutely nothing to do.
> 
> Another valuable prep test is to have someone randomly call you and when they call you have to grab your bug-out bag, don't change clothes or shoes, hike 2.5 miles away from your house then back and set up camp in the back yard. You can't use anything that's not on your person or in your bag. Go at least 24 hours.
> 
> Another
> Have your wife or someone take your wallet at a random time. Go the next 5 days without it. No cards, no ID, and no money that you didn't have stored somewhere else. No assistance.
> 
> Another
> Imagine the was a cyber attack, the gas pumps don't work anymore in the city. How long can you go on what you have stored.
> 
> These are are basic exercises, they aren't even that complicated. Most people won't even do them. This doesn't including having someone - or multiple people - do assault runs on your house with plastic guns that shoot plastic pellets or the like.
> 
> Without actual practice prepping is nothing more than spending money buying crap. No more useful than joining a bowling league.
> 
> ****************************
> 
> Whatever you are going to do... commit to it. Whatever disaster you truly think will happen, what are you doing to actually test your preps.
> 
> If you think an EMP will shut down all electronics, including your car, then figure out how you are going to get from your work to your house without it. Do some test runs. If you're like most people you live 20 miles from your work. Can you cover that distance? Do you have what you need in the trunk of your car to do it? The stores will all be closed. Nowhere to get a bottle of water. A lot of people can't walk 20 miles. They think they can, but they burn out within 10.
> 
> If you think your going to hike to 50 miles away over 2 days then try it. Hike a 25 mile route away from your house and then back... camp out in the back yard... then get up the next day and finish the last 25 miles. (I did it... what did I learn? I need to keep plenty of pain reliever in my bugout bag and some sleeping pills. Trying to sleep on the ground after walking 25 miles is tough. You're sore as hell. The next day your feet are really sore. Those new "hiking" boots are great at making blisters)
> 
> Without practice it's just mental masturbation. Pick a plan and put it into action. In a real SHTF situation people aren't going to get shot... they are going to quit. Give up. Sit down. Stop trying because of lack of conditioning. Lack of practice. Frustration. The great coach Jimmy Johnson said, "Fatigue makes cowards of us all."
> 
> Most preppers don't prepare. They go out to eat at Chili's and go home and watch Monday Night Football... then repeat and repeat. They are preparing for failure ... while spending money on "stuff." Another gun won't help you if you haven't practiced what you'll do the other 99.99% of the time you aren't using it.


I didn't imply that I didn't have a plan, I not only have a plan, I have 3, all of which are flexible.

I live in a bit of a unique geographic region not found most places in north America. I've lived here for 50 years and worked construction for 30 years all over this county, traveled extensively thru 10-11 surrounding counties, lived all over the place and I know my way around better than most. 
When I sat down and really thought about how to get out of here if the SHTF I quickly realized, in all reality, it would be near, if not impossible to get my wife out and tough on my own until things settled down, so plan A is to hunker down, unless circumstances warrant otherwise. 
Flexibility and being able to adapt to changes quickly is very important, and for me that is almost a daily routine at work. Solving build and logistic problems on the spot is part of the reason I'm the lead superintendent.
They call me Mr. doom and gloom at work, because I'm always pointing out the down side of things, and I plan for things to not go as planned. I am pretty much incapable of having a plan A w/o having a plan B and a fare notion of a plan C, it's just how my brain works.


----------



## Kauboy

tonybluegoat said:


> No, I think you're being 100% perfectly crystal clear. You're a racist. Got it... Hii yaaa yaa yaa Hii YAAA YAA YAA. Go forth and prosper. I'm a 2nd generation Pollack, but you're probably ok with that because at least I'm white. Do me a favor. Clean your gun while it's loaded.


Unsubstantiated claims about the character of a site member will not sit well.
What part of what he said was racist?


----------



## WhatTheHeck

Lunatic Wrench said:


> I didn't imply that I didn't have a plan, I not only have a plan, I have 3, all of which are flexible.
> 
> I live in a bit of a unique geographic region not found most places in north America. I've lived here for 50 years and worked construction for 30 years all over this county, traveled extensively thru 10-11 surrounding counties, lived all over the place and I know my way around better than most.
> When I sat down and really thought about how to get out of here if the SHTF I quickly realized, in all reality, it would be near, if not impossible to get my wife out and tough on my own until things settled down, so plan A is to hunker down, unless circumstances warrant otherwise.
> Flexibility and being able to adapt to changes quickly is very important, and for me that is almost a daily routine at work. Solving build and logistic problems on the spot is part of the reason I'm the lead superintendent.
> They call me Mr. doom and gloom at work, because I'm always pointing out the down side of things, and I plan for things to not go as planned. I am pretty much incapable of having a plan A w/o having a plan B and a fare notion of a plan C, it's just how my brain works.


Best laid plans are only good until first contact. 
Then is it is the ability to identify, adjust, and react to the fluid situation that makes one successful, be it on the battlefield or in ones domestic life.
Semper Gumby.


----------



## bigwheel

If the angry democrats in Dallas will stay put. We should be ok in Foat Wurth. What did you decide about how to drink pool water? I been told twice stabilizers in the Chlorine Tabs was not good for kidneys or livers. Thanks.


----------



## MisterMills357

Illini Warrior said:


> sorry - but this OP posting reminds me tooooo much of another prepper on another site ...
> 
> one of the few black preppers on the sites - lives in Detroit - claims to be a conservative GOPers but quotes Jesse, Rev Al and the XMan - won't accept anything but anything said about blacks much less Detroit ...
> 
> plans on bugging south to OH land he purchased >>>>> just can't understand why the neighbors down there don't like him and won't accept him .....
> 
> and I was always able to shut him down - just asked him why he needed to bug out of Detroit if his fellow blacks were as gracious & law abiding as he always claimed ....





tonybluegoat said:


> No, I think you're being 100% perfectly crystal clear. You're a racist. Got it... Hii yaaa yaa yaa Hii YAAA YAA YAA. Go forth and prosper. I'm a 2nd generation Pollack, but you're probably ok with that because at least I'm white. Do me a favor. Clean your gun while it's loaded.


That wasn't a racist rant by Illini Warrior, and your reply was brainless; I am an English Isle Mutt, and that is about what I know of my heritage; am I OK in your book? 
I am a white boy with a gun and a will to use it when needed. What is your best guess as to my thinking, am I a racist? Feel free to open fire with your big mouth.

If anyone is suspect, it is you, you have given a genuflected retort, to something that seems innocuous to me. Are you a servile follower of PC, by any chance? 
Because they genuflect with their answers, and they bend the knee to the PC god, and not God the Father.


----------



## WhatTheHeck

MisterMills357 said:


> That wasn't a racist rant by Illini Warrior, and your reply was brainless; I am an English Isle Mutt, and that is about what I know of my heritage; am I OK in your book?
> I am a white boy with a gun and a will to use it when needed. What is your best guess as to my thinking, am I a racist? Feel free to open fire with your big mouth.
> 
> If anyone is suspect, it is you, you have given a genuflected retort, to something that seems innocuous to me. Are you a servile follower of PC, by any chance?
> Because they genuflect with their answers, they bend the knee to PC, and not God.


I am one half Polish, and one half Mexican.
Am I racist against myself?
I am so confused. :tango_face_wink:


----------



## MisterMills357

Illini Warrior said:


> sorry - but this OP posting reminds me tooooo much of another prepper on another site ...
> 
> one of the few black preppers on the sites - lives in Detroit - claims to be a conservative GOPers but quotes Jesse, Rev Al and the XMan - won't accept anything but anything said about blacks much less Detroit ...
> 
> plans on bugging south to OH land he purchased >>>>> just can't understand why the neighbors down there don't like him and won't accept him .....
> 
> and I was always able to shut him down - just asked him why he needed to bug out of Detroit if his fellow blacks were as gracious & law abiding as he always claimed ....





WhatTheHeck said:


> I am one half Polish, and one half Mexican.
> Am I racist against myself?
> I am so confused. :tango_face_wink:


Poles and Mexicans, are by and large Caucasian, did I miss something? [Was your reply meant to be jocular, because I can be tone deaf at times. So, I am asking for guidance on it.]


----------



## tonybluegoat

bigwheel said:


> If the angry democrats in Dallas will stay put. We should be ok in Foat Wurth. What did you decide about how to drink pool water? I been told twice stabilizers in the Chlorine Tabs was not good for kidneys or livers. Thanks.


Then don't drink it. There are lots of ways to process water. We all have to make our own decision


----------



## WhatTheHeck

MisterMills357 said:


> Poles and Mexicans, are by and large Caucasian, did I miss something? [Was your reply meant to be jocular, because I can be tone deaf at times. So, I am asking for guidance on it.]


The first line is in fact, a fact.

But it was meant as a jest in good fun, poking at myself.


----------



## MaterielGeneral

tonybluegoat said:


> No, I think you're being 100% perfectly crystal clear. You're a racist. Got it... Hii yaaa yaa yaa Hii YAAA YAA YAA. Go forth and prosper. I'm a 2nd generation Pollack, but you're probably ok with that because at least I'm white. Do me a favor. Clean your gun while it's loaded.





Kauboy said:


> Unsubstantiated claims about the character of a site member will not sit well.
> What part of what he said was racist?


I am not going to say illini worrior is a racist but he is a dick and always has a snide comment. If we have to choose then I back up @tonybluegoat. This thread at least got people thinking on a few things. I have enjoyed reading most of it.


----------



## NewRiverGeorge

OP's neighbors sound like the majority of the people around these parts. SHTF? We may not even know about it until all the suburbanites from DC and Pittsburgh start showing up.


----------



## MisterMills357

WhatTheHeck said:


> The first line is in fact, a fact.
> 
> But it was meant as a jest in good fun, poking at myself.


My apologia: I read a lot, and sometimes it messes with my good sense, aka, common sense; so there be times, when I can be as slow as a tortoise mentally. Thankx for the explanation.


----------



## tonybluegoat

MaterielGeneral said:


> I am not going to say illini worrior is a racist but he is a dick and always has a snide comment. If we have to choose then I back up @tonybluegoat. This thread at least got people thinking on a few things. I have enjoyed reading most of it.


Thanks


----------



## tonybluegoat

"Quote Originally Posted by Illini Warrior View Post
sorry - but this OP posting reminds me tooooo much of another prepper on another site ...

one of the few black preppers on the sites - lives in Detroit - claims to be a conservative GOPers but quotes Jesse, Rev Al and the XMan - won't accept anything but anything said about blacks much less Detroit ...

plans on bugging south to OH land he purchased >>>>> just can't understand why the neighbors down there don't like him and won't accept him .....

and I was always able to shut him down - just asked him why he needed to bug out of Detroit if his fellow blacks were as gracious & law abiding as he always claimed ...."

Let's see...
A. I sound tooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much like the black guy
B. "won't accept anything said about 'blacks'" That's because "blacks" is not a person... it's a race into which you lumping all "blacks." I can only assume that "anything said" meaning anything YOU SAID... probably wasn't about their ability to work hard, build good cars, take care of their families, stay on the right side of the road when driving, serve in high office, add to betterment of humanity or anything of the like.... I would even guess that anything YOU SAID wasn't that they had magical properties and smelled like cotton candy... My guess that the anything YOU SAID had to do with crime and whatever negative connotations YOU have with said black people ... particularly from Detroit.
C. "fellow blacks were as gracious and law abiding as he always claims" LET'S COMPARE. Are YOU a prepper? Do YOU have guns. Do you assume that the people where you live may not be gracious and law abiding in a SHTF moment. I think all preppers feel that things will get dangerous. Many of whom might want to bug out. But you want to make it a point... OUT OF THE BLUE MIND YOU... no one was talking about black people, Detroit or anything of the like to bring all of this up... Why, because that's your mentality.. racist.

By the way the neighbors that I trust on my dirt road are Mexican, White and Black (and Polish). So you asked.

If you replaced all those words with White or Native American or Jew it would still be a racist rant. You just have a particular thing for blacks.


----------



## Hemi45

Heck yeah I'm bugging out!!! Going straight up John Cusack from the movie 2012 ... stretch limo out of the collapsing city then jumping planes all the way to the arks in China! Or not.

We're where we are, this is home and we have our family and friends. Now, if its practical and possible to do so (like an approaching hurricane, chem spill, etc.) we'll scoot somewhere safe and reassess. If its something torn from the pages of a Zompoc or Rawles novel, well nobody lives forever. 

As for where we live, I like our odds. We live on a dead end road with lot's (I mean LOTS) of active and retired LEO's and military. Good salt of the earth folks who look out for each other.


----------



## Maine-Marine

I am sure there are some folks that have never posted on this site that know a lot more then me... I know there are a few folks on here that are the real deal and know their stuff....While I have never met any folks here in person... there are a few I am confident will weather any storm that comes... be it emp, race riots, anti christ, or pandemic 
I know what I know and know what I can and can not do

like many folks...I am always a little put out by a new person coming in and trying to tell me I am doing everything wrong and I will be dead in a couple of days.... In my experience most people who are BAD ASS...they do not go around telling people they are bad ass.... and there are a few people on here that are BAD ASS and have seen some crap

and in closing... in a place where men die young - beware the old men!!!!


----------



## rice paddy daddy

tonybluegoat said:


> A well practiced plan that you are entirely committed to is better than a lot of general ideas and half-assed preparations. If we think about what we are really committed to doing and focus on that, then we have a much higher success rate. What I learned in Boy Scouts, in the Army, and as a network manager/exec is that any plan without practice is nothing more than blind hope.
> 
> The most basic element in any disaster is a loss of electricity. Anyone can go to their main breaker and shut it off for 24, 36, 48, or 72 hours and find out what preps work and what preps need improvement. The main thing is to do it without any "extra" preparation. Just shut it off - preferably when it's dark outside.
> 
> What lessons are learned very quickly include:
> 1. I don't have flashlights in enough locations.
> 2. The water in the hot water heater gets cold pretty quickly once you start using it.
> 3. There is absolutely nothing to do.
> 
> Another valuable prep test is to have someone randomly call you and when they call you have to grab your bug-out bag, don't change clothes or shoes, hike 2.5 miles away from your house then back and set up camp in the back yard. You can't use anything that's not on your person or in your bag. Go at least 24 hours.
> 
> Another
> Have your wife or someone take your wallet at a random time. Go the next 5 days without it. No cards, no ID, and no money that you didn't have stored somewhere else. No assistance.
> 
> Another
> Imagine the was a cyber attack, the gas pumps don't work anymore in the city. How long can you go on what you have stored.
> 
> These are are basic exercises, they aren't even that complicated. Most people won't even do them. This doesn't including having someone - or multiple people - do assault runs on your house with plastic guns that shoot plastic pellets or the like.
> 
> Without actual practice prepping is nothing more than spending money buying crap. No more useful than joining a bowling league.
> 
> ****************************
> 
> Whatever you are going to do... commit to it. Whatever disaster you truly think will happen, what are you doing to actually test your preps.
> 
> If you think an EMP will shut down all electronics, including your car, then figure out how you are going to get from your work to your house without it. Do some test runs. If you're like most people you live 20 miles from your work. Can you cover that distance? Do you have what you need in the trunk of your car to do it? The stores will all be closed. Nowhere to get a bottle of water. A lot of people can't walk 20 miles. They think they can, but they burn out within 10.
> 
> If you think your going to hike to 50 miles away over 2 days then try it. Hike a 25 mile route away from your house and then back... camp out in the back yard... then get up the next day and finish the last 25 miles. (I did it... what did I learn? I need to keep plenty of pain reliever in my bugout bag and some sleeping pills. Trying to sleep on the ground after walking 25 miles is tough. You're sore as hell. The next day your feet are really sore. Those new "hiking" boots are great at making blisters)
> 
> Without practice it's just mental masturbation. Pick a plan and put it into action. In a real SHTF situation people aren't going to get shot... they are going to quit. Give up. Sit down. Stop trying because of lack of conditioning. Lack of practice. Frustration. The great coach Jimmy Johnson said, "Fatigue makes cowards of us all."
> 
> Most preppers don't prepare. They go out to eat at Chili's and go home and watch Monday Night Football... then repeat and repeat. They are preparing for failure ... while spending money on "stuff." Another gun won't help you if you haven't practiced what you'll do the other 99.99% of the time you aren't using it.


Dude, we go through ACTUAL scenarios just like you describe EVERY YEAR.
It's called Hurricane Season. 
Irma last year, Matthew in 2016. Plus all the random tropical storms each year.

No power, no gasoline, no ATM's, no banks, no grocery stores open, LOTS of water, flooding, HIGH winds. 
In my "neighborhood" a 4WD truck is not a fad or a statement, it is a necessity. Even my wife's truck is 4WD. 
Is yours? Or do you not even drive a pickup?

I'm 70, wife is 72, and we are both survivors. Country folk.


----------



## MikeTango

@tonybluegoat

Thanks for starting a thought provoking thread!

You have taken action and appear to be comfortably established in a location you are now intimately familiar with.

Let me ask a few questions.

Do you have a place to go in case your home becomes uninhabitable?

Are there nearby nuclear power plants, chemical plants or train tracks that could carry hazardous materials close to your home?

How would you deal with a scenario where the government falsely creates a mandatory evacuation order and try's to force you to abandon your property? You know, the guys in hazmat suits show up saying it isn't safe, everyone has to leave. Or the military shows up and they try to clear everyone out to set up a staging area to fight an unseen enemy.

How would you deal with martial law? I have a feeling a good and well intentioned President may be forced into declaring martial law to try to maintain the lefties when they finally snap and all hell breaks loose.

Forgive me if I've overlooked an answer you have already typed.

Oh, do you happen to drive a blue GTO?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## tonybluegoat

MikeTango said:


> @tonybluegoat
> 
> Thanks for starting a thought provoking thread!
> 
> You have taken action and appear to be comfortably established in a location you are now intimately familiar with.
> 
> Let me ask a few questions.
> 
> Do you have a place to go in case your home becomes uninhabitable?
> 
> Are there nearby nuclear power plants, chemical plants or train tracks that could carry hazardous materials close to your home?
> 
> How would you deal with a scenario where the government falsely creates a mandatory evacuation order and try's to force you to abandon your property? You know, the guys in hazmat suits show up saying it isn't safe, everyone has to leave. Or the military shows up and they try to clear everyone out to set up a staging area to fight an unseen enemy.
> 
> How would you deal with martial law? I have a feeling a good and well intentioned President may be forced into declaring martial law to try to maintain the lefties when they finally snap and all hell breaks loose.
> 
> Forgive me if I've overlooked an answer you have already typed.
> 
> Oh, do you happen to drive a blue GTO?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Great questions. I have built an apartment on my property separate from my home. This is a Low Energy use alternative to the house. It can run almost exclusively on the solar, has dedicated wood heat with propane as a backup and is much smaller - more efficient. So in case of something like a fire I have an alternate location. If the entire property became unlivable then I would just stay here and die. I have no delusions that I'm superman. I did what I could do to get out of the city. I am as far away from major cities (2 hour+) as I can get and still create an income. Any farther out and I wouldn't have any money.

Let's lay out disasters....

Hurricane... I'm actually about 3.5 hours from the coast so I'm actually far enough away that it's not a real problem. Probably just localized flooding. The city I live next to is actually a staging area for emergency equipment and electrical line equipment for hurricanes that might effect Houston and the Texas coast to Louisiana. So good.

Tornado... I used to live in Dallas, very tornado like. I'm across what I will call the "wet line." Tornadoes occur on the "dry line" I'm far enough East that we don't get tornadoes... Maybe one per decade. That's better than North Texas that gets about 10 - 20 per year (or something similar). Plus I live in a narrow valley, tornado (if it came) would have a hard time dipping back down after clearing the ridge on either side.

Flooding... Localized flooding can always occur. You just need to know your elevation and drainage profile. We've had some serious rain and hurricane fueled rains over the years. I've stayed dry.

Forest Fires... That's a real hazard for me. East Texas has drought most summers and forest fires are a real potential. I have the area cleared around my house enough that I might be able to protect it. A real California type forest fire I would bug out and rebuild. It's not a true disaster because it only affects my STUFF. Not my ability to earn income or buy an RV to live in until I rebuilt a house. I built the one I'm in now.

Nuclear... Houston and Dallas are each 2.5 hours away. So if they get nuked there will be fallout. I've looked at the projections. I'm on the outermost band of either. It all depends on the winds. There's actually more of a danger of Nuclear Winter affecting crop growth in North America due to a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India. I wrote an article about it a couple weeks ago. I tried to repost the text here but it got "admin"ed. Not sure why, maybe because I was new. It's the main danger to the U.S. from a nuclear standpoint - unless you live in DC or NYC (dirty bomb).

EMP... Affects everyone, but Solar Flare based issues are stronger the farther you get north. I'm as south as I can get without living in a desert or speaking Spanish. Not really but as far south as I want to live. At some point you start to lose rainfall, which is really important. Texas is on it's own electric grid - unlike the rest of the country. I don't know if that makes us safer or more vulnerable. But a solar or nuke based EMP that effects the East Coast might not affect Texas... no way to know for sure. Plus I have solar... that is if the inverter and wiring survives whatever the event might be.

Drought....and Global Warming... My area gets an average of 3.5 inches of rain per month. It comes more in the spring and fall. The Heat of the summer can get very dry. Trees (orchards) are a better plan than gardens if you're trying to do it without irrigation. I live in a valley so I have lots of ability to collect runoff if I want to dig a bigger pond. I have a small one. In reference to global warming, I've read every study I can find, state and national. I'm in a micro-climate that has 4 inputs - Weather from the West (california), from the south (Mexico), and from the Gulf of Mexico.... then it is sometimes affected when the Jet Stream drips really low. But the Gulf of Mexico moisture has a big impact that insulates us from drought. If you look on a map you can see where the dessert affects West Texas and can even encroach on Austin and Dallas areas if it spreads. I'm too far East for dessertification, and too far inland for sea rise. The weather will get slightly hotter and the rainfall will become more dry season/wet season oriented... so orchards are a better long-term plan than crops... And picking chill-hour plants that have a wider range doesn't hurt.

Gardening - this soil is great for blackberries, peppers, sweet potatoes, and all squash/cucumber/watermelon type things. It's also great for blueberries. Trees - Pecan, Peach and Pear do well without too much input. Some others can be babied into working here. Anything else would require inputs that wouldn't really be available.

Animals - good grazing for cows or browse for goats. My neighbor keeps cows. I have kept a herd of goats, but I don't have any at the moment. This was a goat farm when I bought it.

Railroad - 3-5 miles away. Unless it's a nuclear bomb it's really hard for the effects of any spill to reach this far. Since there aren't many crossings or other traffic (just one or two on country roads) the chances of an incident are very low. But the railroad also gives a good opportunity. I drive to Austin a lot. If there is a major incident that shuts down the roads or makes cars unusable then I have researched the routes and the trains coming from Mexico through Austin carrying cars and other goods out of Mexico come up these tracks. So could ride a train from Austin to within 3 miles of my house.

River - 5 miles away is the Trinity River, the deepest most navigable river in Texas. I also drive to Dallas, my wife drives to Dallas and my adult son and his family live in Dallas. Same gig as the trains. In a true emergency all one needs to do is boost a boat/canoe and he/she could get from Dallas to within 5 miles of the house without having to get on any roads. The trip would probably take 3 days. The river flows pretty quickly.

No nuclear or chemical plants.

Martial Law... The population density where I live is about about 30 people per square mile. (compared to Dallas County which has a population density of 3,000 people per square mile) So maintaining martial law or actually occupying land out here is nearly impossible. The plan if the military moves through is to go back into the woods on my property, wait for them to do their thing and move through, then reoccupy the house. It's more like the Afghan countryside than Kabul. Dallas is easy to occupy there are 20,000+ Dallas police officers, plus National Guard, plus, plus plus and it's very easy to control the roads. Out here we have no city police and 24 county deputies. 24. Divide that into 3 shifts and that's 8 per shift... One will be a supervisor, so they are useless. One will be off... And you're down to 6 deputies to patrol a 1,078 square mile county. In a SHTF situation they will be busy in the population center (county seat) not out here in the country. Plus I live square in the middle of Trump/Baptist/Confederate Flag country where every house has lots of guns and people who "won't take no truck from government people."

False evacuation... same thing.. Just leave the house and go in the woods. They won't have the time or resources to search 30 acres of woods. They will assume we already left. They can't occupy the house there aren't that many people. The only National Guard station is a transportation unit will about 80 people in it. We know them. They live here too.

Here's a trick on what to say/do when you hit any roadblock vs what not to do.

Here's what NOT to do/say.... "This is AMERICA! I now my Goddamn rights. That's why I carry a gun. You people can't tell me where the hell to go or what the hell to do.... etc. etc." That will result in the phrase "SIR, GET OUT OF THE CAR!"

Here's what TO do/say... "What's happening? Was there an escaped prisoner. I think I can help.... Do you want me to help? I have a dog at home that's really good at tracking people down..." (Start to get out of the car to help them.) I was in the Boy Scouts... I bet I can help you guys out.." That will result in the phrase "SIR, GET BACK IN THE CAR AND KEEP MOVING."

Cops avoid people who want to help and arrest people who want to fight.

GTO? What an impractical prepper car. My wife and I drive the same model 2006 Toyota Prius... That way we can interchange parts. I keep an extra Prius engine on hand at all times. I will be buying a 3rd same model Prius as a backup/parts car before the end of the year. They cost nothing and I can fix anything that breaks on them. My last car (totalled) was a 2006 Toyota Prius. I've swapped 2 engines and 3 hybrid batteries. My current hybrid batter is a brand new own (not a rebuild) so it will last until 2028 and can be swapped into whatever Prius is running best. They get 42 mpg on average driving 75 mph. So I could get to either coast on 35 gallons of gas. I keep 250 gallons on hand and 15 5 gallon cans. The other thing about Prius' is that they are Pussy cars. So it's easy to pass unnoticed. They have a ton of space inside. My Prius even has a tow hitch... the car is rated to tow 1,000 lbs, but I've done 1,500 no problem (not in the mountains).

I also have a truck, another beater car that runs on alcohol and two motorcycles that can go on the highway or cross country (if it's dry).

Never underestimate the power of social camouflage. Never look like a prepper. Never look like you know what's going on. Always act confused or overly helpful. Never be a threat.

This is where I think most prepper get it wrong. Look at the Vietcong... white shirt "yes sir"... look at the Afghans in the country "I don't understand" "No Taliban." These are the same people who shot up a convoy or a patrol the week before. Look like a soldier - all geared up carrying guns - die like a soldier - in blaze of glory.... DO NOT FIGHT THE GOVERNMENT. you will lose. The Indians lost, and every one who looks like a target gets shot. You don't have drones and air power. Look like a rice farmer. Drive a Prius, be a dog trainer, etc.

Notice my car doesn't have any dumbass bumper stickers that say "live free or die" or "Trump" or "Obama" or any confederate flags or anything else. Anonymous. Yes I have a Radio Operator's license, an alcohol permit, tax exempt agricultural status, homestead exemptions and every other cover I can get. I paid $308 last year in property taxes. I pay NOTHING in Federal Income Tax... I make too little money. I live in a state with no state income tax. My ag exemption gets me out of many sales taxes. I bought a $24,000 tractor and trailer package from John Deere and paid no sales tax (saving about $2,000). How? Agricultural exemption. I file my federal tax ever year. I'm poor! I'm stupid! I'm no threat to anyone! I'm certainly not a prepper.

Most preppers aren't really preppers. They are regular people who have regular jobs, have a mortgage and car payments, and live in a city. They buy a lot of crap... but when the shit hits the fan they are dead... They have TOO MANY NEEDS AND NO REAL ASSETS. I own my land, own my cars, have no credit card bills. I work for myself in a cash business. I have tractor, land, wood, gas, propane, food, resources. I'm not saying that everyone could do that. But it's a choice. If you really want to be prepared then REALLY prepare. I used to be a Vice President for a Corporation in Dallas. I had a big house and a pool and a mortgage and 2 car payments and a room food of preps. I decided that wasn't really going to be enough. So I MADE myself PREPARED. At the same time I made a really relaxing life. My required budget is $865 per month. I make a lot more than that. In a true emergency (no electricity, no cable TV emergency) I have NO FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS WHATSOEVER. I could sit in my house and eat my preps while using my solar electricity on sunny days for a year and not a single bill would show up, no eviction notice, no repossession notice, no sheriff. No joke. Am I prepared for everything? No. I haven't planted the orchard yet, and it will take 7 years to mature. I don't have good rain catchment. I need to buy TWO 2,500 gallon water tanks and a 1,000 emergency tank. I did a 3 year analysis of rainfall - week by week - so I know exactly how much water I have to store when it storms in order to get through the weeks/months when it doesn't. My analyis included 2011 which was one of the driest years since the dustbowl. Just saying. No joke. But most people can't do what I do. They want to drive nice cars and shit like that. Their wives want to wear designer clothes. My wife's clothes could fit in a closet the size of a refrigerator box. And she's fine with that.









Bikes - plus enough extra parts to keep them going. Notice they are exactly the same year, make and model that makes all parts interchageable and all my spare parts will fit on both bikes. 








Low energy apartment I built can run off my solar array, a very small generator, or just be lived in dark. From the air it looks like a chicken shack, from the dirt road it looks like an outbuilding. Cooking is gas powered. Heat is wood/gas powered. I have 6 months worth of candles, but it's easier to just sleep when it's dark. Since this pic I put a ceiling fan over the bed. I can flip one switch and cross over from grid power to my solar array. (I painted the art. ) The lamp on the nighstand was made from the cam shaft out of the one of the Prius engines I replaced. You gotta have skills as well as preps - mechanical, welding, agricultural, etc.








It doesn't hurt to read as well. Tao Te Ching, Sun Tzu, Marcus Aurilellius, Machiavelli, History, Philosophy, Sociology, Psychology, Art, Construction, etc. What has thousands and thousands of pages of history taught me that applies to being prepared. ARMIES with guns always win against INDIVIDUALS with guns. If you plan on taking on the government can I have your preps? Against the government Any civilian without a gun will live longer than an iyndividual with a gun. One on one, it might be better to have a gun. But it's generally better to have quick feet. I have guns, but I also run 5 miles regularly, hike 5+ miles often with a pack and work out. Step one to staying alive - don't go where there is danger. Step two - don't go where there is danger. Step three - run. Step four - hide. Step five - Lie! Step six - give them what they want. Step seven - pull out your dick and start whacking off. 
Step NINE - pull a gun out. My point is, most people just think Gun = Safety. Most people don't actually think. What would Machiavelli do?

It's 4 pm, time to eat something. Why this, because if you don't eat it now how do you know you'll be able to end it when the SHTF? Plus it's a lot easier to stay the right weight on preps than on Cheeseburgers. Why aren't most people prepared - including most preppers? Because you have to be CRAZY to be truly prepared. I have climbed mountains, Camped in the woods for 3 days with nothing but a garbage bag and a knife, trekked in Alaska in Winter, and directed A-1 Abrams tanks in the desert. It's fun to be crazy.

My brother moved 500 feet down the dirt road 3 years ago. My son and his family will be building a house on the land next Summer. My daughter lives in a RV near the city. As long as my EMP proof truck is running (with diesel that I have stored) I can go drag her and her house back onto the land.


----------



## Jammer Six

oh.

my.

god.


----------



## MikeTango

@tonybluegoat

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate anyone who takes the time to share their thoughts, plans and accomplishments on prepping.

My question about you driving a blue GTO was in reference to your screen name **** blue goat. GTO = goat. Obviously, I was way off!

A few of your answers bring up more questions. But I don't have time to ask right now.


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## tonybluegoat

Jammer Six said:


> oh.
> 
> my.
> 
> god.


:vs_snail: I generally have time to answer. I only work 2 days a week at my business. The rest of the time I have to do crazy shit!


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## okey

If you have NVD goggles and know to avoid being out about during daylight hours, it will make almost difference at all what the locals "think", cause they'll never get a shot at you and almost none will ever know that you're around. Anyone who can't even see THAT far ahead is hopeless on the face of it.


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## WhatTheHeck

Observation: When traveling to and from your BOL, take note of how many bridges or potential choke points you come across.

Also note how many heavy construction vehicles along the way.


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## Jammer Six

This is how real people really react when shit hits the fan: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...187f427e253_story.html?utm_term=.d1b2b164e17e

_"Working through the night on little sleep and lots of Mountain Dew and adrenaline, Taylor Fontenot, the Texas captain of an-all volunteer group known as America's Cajun Navy, headed right into Hurricane Florence's wrath. As the storm headed toward land Thursday night into Friday morning, Fontenot and his group say, they helped to rescue more than 150 people, including terrified parents, their sleepy toddlers and scores of elderly trapped in attics, as water moved higher and higher inside their homes."_

Fantasies about combat are for fools.

Grow up. Men help others when they need it.

Become a Man.


----------



## inceptor

Jammer Six said:


> This is how real people really react when shit hits the fan: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...187f427e253_story.html?utm_term=.d1b2b164e17e
> 
> _"Working through the night on little sleep and lots of Mountain Dew and adrenaline, Taylor Fontenot, the Texas captain of an-all volunteer group known as America's Cajun Navy, headed right into Hurricane Florence's wrath. As the storm headed toward land Thursday night into Friday morning, Fontenot and his group say, they helped to rescue more than 150 people, including terrified parents, their sleepy toddlers and scores of elderly trapped in attics, as water moved higher and higher inside their homes."_
> 
> Fantasies about combat are for fools.
> 
> Grow up. Men help others when they need it.
> 
> Become a Man.


Another one of those rare moments where I agree. I think the world is about to end.................


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## SerenityTactical

Jammer Six said:


> This is how real people really react when shit hits the fan:
> 
> Fantasies about combat are for fools.
> Grow up. Men help others when they need it.
> Become a Man.


I absolutely agree.

After several months into a complete societal collapse though the "other good men" might be in shortening supply all good deeds aside.

I always hope for the best and plan for the worst.
Flight or fight...run and avoid everytime. 
Combat can never end well...

But when it's all said and done.

"It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Lunatic Wrench

WhatTheHeck said:


> Observation: When traveling to and from your BOL, take note of how many bridges or potential choke points you come across.
> 
> Also note how many heavy construction vehicles along the way.


Exactly why I changed my plan from bug out to hunker down. It's just going to be one big mess trying to get out of my area.


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## jimb1972

Jammer Six said:


> This is how real people really react when shit hits the fan: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...187f427e253_story.html?utm_term=.d1b2b164e17e
> 
> _"Working through the night on little sleep and lots of Mountain Dew and adrenaline, Taylor Fontenot, the Texas captain of an-all volunteer group known as America's Cajun Navy, headed right into Hurricane Florence's wrath. As the storm headed toward land Thursday night into Friday morning, Fontenot and his group say, they helped to rescue more than 150 people, including terrified parents, their sleepy toddlers and scores of elderly trapped in attics, as water moved higher and higher inside their homes."_
> 
> Fantasies about combat are for fools.
> 
> Grow up. Men help others when they need it.
> 
> Become a Man.


I bet they voted for Trump. The Hillary supporters expect the government to help those people.


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## WhatTheHeck

Jammer Six said:


> This is how real people really react when shit hits the fan: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...187f427e253_story.html?utm_term=.d1b2b164e17e
> 
> _"Working through the night on little sleep and lots of Mountain Dew and adrenaline, Taylor Fontenot, the Texas captain of an-all volunteer group known as America's Cajun Navy, headed right into Hurricane Florence's wrath. As the storm headed toward land Thursday night into Friday morning, Fontenot and his group say, they helped to rescue more than 150 people, including terrified parents, their sleepy toddlers and scores of elderly trapped in attics, as water moved higher and higher inside their homes."_
> 
> Fantasies about combat are for fools.
> 
> Grow up. Men help others when they need it.
> 
> Become a Man.


You do have a point.
There are those out there whom put others welfare before themselves. Typically those who willingly join the armed forces, or become volunteers, to better their communities.

But only to a degree.

While recent hurricanes, wildfires and other natural disasters are in fact short term SHTF events, how long with everyone be altruistic when the JIT food supply system fails? 
When the grid has been down for months on end?
When rule of law begins to fail?
When people become truly desperate?

That is when things get interesting.


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## WhatTheHeck

Lunatic Wrench said:


> Exactly why I changed my plan from bug out to hunker down. It's just going to be one big mess trying to get out of my area.


In my opinion, that is why things are too variable to know when truly S has in fact HTF.

How many people will recognize it? Know when to bail out?
How many pulled their monies out of the stock market in anticipation of a crash if Trump won the 2016 election?
How many bought extra groceries the day before election day 2016?
(Disclaimer: I did both)
How many made way for their BOL in anticipation of a possible Trump win, and massive Snowflake revolt? 
(Disclaimer: I thought it a very remote possibility. But 2020 could be different)

Fact is, close proximity to a urban center is not loss on those on the outskirts. 
More than a few have identified and considered the need for blockades.

I know of two back hoes, two earth movers, one crawler, and half a dozen tractors with front loaders within a mile and a half of me. 
Does not take long to drop a bridge, remove a road, set up car or truck trenches.

I can think of two places where nothing wheeled is getting through unless it is a bicycle.


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## Lunatic Wrench

WhatTheHeck said:


> In my opinion, that is why things are too variable to know when truly S has in fact HTF.
> 
> How many people will recognize it? Know when to bail out?
> How many pulled their monies out of the stock market in anticipation of a crash if Trump won the 2016 election?
> How many bought extra groceries the day before election day 2016?
> (Disclaimer: I did both)
> How many made way for their BOL in anticipation of a possible Trump win, and massive Snowflake revolt?
> (Disclaimer: I thought it a very remote possibility. But 2020 could be different)
> 
> Fact is, close proximity to a urban center is not loss on those on the outskirts.
> More than a few have identified and considered the need for blockades.
> 
> I know of two back hoes, two earth movers, one crawler, and half a dozen tractors with front loaders within a mile and a half of me.
> Does not take long to drop a bridge, remove a road, set up car or truck trenches.
> 
> I can think of two places where nothing wheeled is getting through unless it is a bicycle.


When I observe the people around me, which is everytime I step out the door or look out the window, I feel that most of them will think the SHTF when it really hasn't, they'll just be suffering from Chicken little syndrome.


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## ilmostrog

Lunatic Wrench said:


> When I observe the people around me, which is everytime I step out the door or look out the window, I feel that most of them will think the SHTF when it really hasn't, they'll just be suffering from Chicken little syndrome.


I do think the vast majority of Americans are far too busy going about their lives or living in denial to recognize when things go bad until it is too late. This doesn't include events like hurricanes where we get lots of warnings. I think the most common reaction will be to wait for the government to come and help

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lunatic Wrench

ilmostrog said:


> I think the most common reaction will be to wait for the government to come and help
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Because we know from recent history that they will be there lickity split lain:
This is true, most are just to caught up in their daily lives, they tend to be unaware of their surroundings, where they are or where they're going, the just march along their daily routine.
I don't know if it's all the years in my line of work that has honed my peripheral senses or if I'm just naturally more aware then most, but it just baffles me at what people don't see, hear or comprehend, seems they just figure it's always going to be status quo.


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## Elvis

tonybluegoat said:


> Great questions. I have built an apartment on my property separate from my home. This is a Low Energy use alternative to the house. It can run almost exclusively on the solar, has dedicated wood heat with propane as a backup and is much smaller - more efficient. So in case of something like a fire I have an alternate location. If the entire property became unlivable then I would just stay here and die. I have no delusions that I'm superman. I did what I could do to get out of the city. I am as far away from major cities (2 hour+) as I can get and still create an income. Any farther out and I wouldn't have any money.
> 
> Let's lay out disasters....
> 
> Hurricane... I'm actually about 3.5 hours from the coast so I'm actually far enough away that it's not a real problem. Probably just localized flooding. The city I live next to is actually a staging area for emergency equipment and electrical line equipment for hurricanes that might effect Houston and the Texas coast to Louisiana. So good.
> 
> Tornado... I used to live in Dallas, very tornado like. I'm across what I will call the "wet line." Tornadoes occur on the "dry line" I'm far enough East that we don't get tornadoes... Maybe one per decade. That's better than North Texas that gets about 10 - 20 per year (or something similar). Plus I live in a narrow valley, tornado (if it came) would have a hard time dipping back down after clearing the ridge on either side.
> 
> Flooding... Localized flooding can always occur.  You just need to know your elevation and drainage profile. We've had some serious rain and hurricane fueled rains over the years. I've stayed dry.
> 
> Forest Fires... That's a real hazard for me. East Texas has drought most summers and forest fires are a real potential. I have the area cleared around my house enough that I might be able to protect it. A real California type forest fire I would bug out and rebuild. It's not a true disaster because it only affects my STUFF. Not my ability to earn income or buy an RV to live in until I rebuilt a house. I built the one I'm in now.
> 
> Nuclear... Houston and Dallas are each 2.5 hours away. So if they get nuked there will be fallout. I've looked at the projections. I'm on the outermost band of either. It all depends on the winds. There's actually more of a danger of Nuclear Winter affecting crop growth in North America due to a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India. I wrote an article about it a couple weeks ago. I tried to repost the text here but it got "admin"ed. Not sure why, maybe because I was new. It's the main danger to the U.S. from a nuclear standpoint - unless you live in DC or NYC (dirty bomb).
> 
> EMP... Affects everyone, but Solar Flare based issues are stronger the farther you get north. I'm as south as I can get without living in a desert or speaking Spanish. Not really but as far south as I want to live. At some point you start to lose rainfall, which is really important. Texas is on it's own electric grid - unlike the rest of the country. I don't know if that makes us safer or more vulnerable. But a solar or nuke based EMP that effects the East Coast might not affect Texas... no way to know for sure. Plus I have solar... that is if the inverter and wiring survives whatever the event might be.
> 
> Drought....and Global Warming... My area gets an average of 3.5 inches of rain per month. It comes more in the spring and fall. The Heat of the summer can get very dry. Trees (orchards) are a better plan than gardens if you're trying to do it without irrigation. I live in a valley so I have lots of ability to collect runoff if I want to dig a bigger pond. I have a small one. In reference to global warming, I've read every study I can find, state and national. I'm in a micro-climate that has 4 inputs - Weather from the West (california), from the south (Mexico), and from the Gulf of Mexico.... then it is sometimes affected when the Jet Stream drips really low. But the Gulf of Mexico moisture has a big impact that insulates us from drought. If you look on a map you can see where the dessert affects West Texas and can even encroach on Austin and Dallas areas if it spreads. I'm too far East for dessertification, and too far inland for sea rise. The weather will get slightly hotter and the rainfall will become more dry season/wet season oriented... so orchards are a better long-term plan than crops... And picking chill-hour plants that have a wider range doesn't hurt.
> 
> Gardening - this soil is great for blackberries, peppers, sweet potatoes, and all squash/cucumber/watermelon type things. It's also great for blueberries. Trees - Pecan, Peach and Pear do well without too much input. Some others can be babied into working here. Anything else would require inputs that wouldn't really be available.
> 
> Animals - good grazing for cows or browse for goats. My neighbor keeps cows. I have kept a herd of goats, but I don't have any at the moment. This was a goat farm when I bought it.
> 
> Railroad - 3-5 miles away. Unless it's a nuclear bomb it's really hard for the effects of any spill to reach this far. Since there aren't many crossings or other traffic (just one or two on country roads) the chances of an incident are very low. But the railroad also gives a good opportunity. I drive to Austin a lot. If there is a major incident that shuts down the roads or makes cars unusable then I have researched the routes and the trains coming from Mexico through Austin carrying cars and other goods out of Mexico come up these tracks. So could ride a train from Austin to within 3 miles of my house.
> 
> River - 5 miles away is the Trinity River, the deepest most navigable river in Texas. I also drive to Dallas, my wife drives to Dallas and my adult son and his family live in Dallas. Same gig as the trains. In a true emergency all one needs to do is boost a boat/canoe and he/she could get from Dallas to within 5 miles of the house without having to get on any roads. The trip would probably take 3 days. The river flows pretty quickly.
> 
> No nuclear or chemical plants.
> 
> Martial Law... The population density where I live is about about 30 people per square mile. (compared to Dallas County which has a population density of 3,000 people per square mile) So maintaining martial law or actually occupying land out here is nearly impossible. The plan if the military moves through is to go back into the woods on my property, wait for them to do their thing and move through, then reoccupy the house. It's more like the Afghan countryside than Kabul. Dallas is easy to occupy there are 20,000+ Dallas police officers, plus National Guard, plus, plus plus and it's very easy to control the roads. Out here we have no city police and 24 county deputies. 24. Divide that into 3 shifts and that's 8 per shift... One will be a supervisor, so they are useless. One will be off... And you're down to 6 deputies to patrol a 1,078 square mile county. In a SHTF situation they will be busy in the population center (county seat) not out here in the country. Plus I live square in the middle of Trump/Baptist/Confederate Flag country where every house has lots of guns and people who "won't take no truck from government people."
> 
> False evacuation... same thing.. Just leave the house and go in the woods. They won't have the time or resources to search 30 acres of woods. They will assume we already left. They can't occupy the house there aren't that many people. The only National Guard station is a transportation unit will about 80 people in it. We know them. They live here too.
> 
> Here's a trick on what to say/do when you hit any roadblock vs what not to do.
> 
> Here's what NOT to do/say.... "This is AMERICA! I now my Goddamn rights. That's why I carry a gun. You people can't tell me where the hell to go or what the hell to do.... etc. etc." That will result in the phrase "SIR, GET OUT OF THE CAR!"
> 
> Here's what TO do/say... "What's happening? Was there an escaped prisoner. I think I can help.... Do you want me to help? I have a dog at home that's really good at tracking people down..." (Start to get out of the car to help them.) I was in the Boy Scouts... I bet I can help you guys out.." That will result in the phrase "SIR, GET BACK IN THE CAR AND KEEP MOVING."
> 
> Cops avoid people who want to help and arrest people who want to fight.
> 
> GTO? What an impractical prepper car. My wife and I drive the same model 2006 Toyota Prius... That way we can interchange parts. I keep an extra Prius engine on hand at all times. I will be buying a 3rd same model Prius as a backup/parts car before the end of the year. They cost nothing and I can fix anything that breaks on them. My last car (totalled) was a 2006 Toyota Prius. I've swapped 2 engines and 3 hybrid batteries. My current hybrid batter is a brand new own (not a rebuild) so it will last until 2028 and can be swapped into whatever Prius is running best. They get 42 mpg on average driving 75 mph. So I could get to either coast on 35 gallons of gas. I keep 250 gallons on hand and 15 5 gallon cans. The other thing about Prius' is that they are Pussy cars. So it's easy to pass unnoticed. They have a ton of space inside. My Prius even has a tow hitch... the car is rated to tow 1,000 lbs, but I've done 1,500 no problem (not in the mountains).
> 
> I also have a truck, another beater car that runs on alcohol and two motorcycles that can go on the highway or cross country (if it's dry).
> 
> Never underestimate the power of social camouflage. Never look like a prepper. Never look like you know what's going on. Always act confused or overly helpful. Never be a threat.
> 
> This is where I think most prepper get it wrong. Look at the Vietcong... white shirt "yes sir"... look at the Afghans in the country "I don't understand" "No Taliban." These are the same people who shot up a convoy or a patrol the week before. Look like a soldier - all geared up carrying guns - die like a soldier - in blaze of glory.... DO NOT FIGHT THE GOVERNMENT. you will lose. The Indians lost, and every one who looks like a target gets shot. You don't have drones and air power. Look like a rice farmer. Drive a Prius, be a dog trainer, etc.
> 
> Notice my car doesn't have any dumbass bumper stickers that say "live free or die" or "Trump" or "Obama" or any confederate flags or anything else. Anonymous. Yes I have a Radio Operator's license, an alcohol permit, tax exempt agricultural status, homestead exemptions and every other cover I can get. I paid $308 last year in property taxes. I pay NOTHING in Federal Income Tax... I make too little money. I live in a state with no state income tax. My ag exemption gets me out of many sales taxes. I bought a $24,000 tractor and trailer package from John Deere and paid no sales tax (saving about $2,000). How? Agricultural exemption. I file my federal tax ever year. I'm poor! I'm stupid! I'm no threat to anyone! I'm certainly not a prepper.
> 
> Most preppers aren't really preppers. They are regular people who have regular jobs, have a mortgage and car payments, and live in a city. They buy a lot of crap... but when the shit hits the fan they are dead... They have TOO MANY NEEDS AND NO REAL ASSETS. I own my land, own my cars, have no credit card bills. I work for myself in a cash business. I have tractor, land, wood, gas, propane, food, resources. I'm not saying that everyone could do that. But it's a choice. If you really want to be prepared then REALLY prepare. I used to be a Vice President for a Corporation in Dallas. I had a big house and a pool and a mortgage and 2 car payments and a room food of preps. I decided that wasn't really going to be enough. So I MADE myself PREPARED. At the same time I made a really relaxing life. My required budget is $865 per month. I make a lot more than that. In a true emergency (no electricity, no cable TV emergency) I have NO FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS WHATSOEVER. I could sit in my house and eat my preps while using my solar electricity on sunny days for a year and not a single bill would show up, no eviction notice, no repossession notice, no sheriff. No joke. Am I prepared for everything? No. I haven't planted the orchard yet, and it will take 7 years to mature. I don't have good rain catchment. I need to buy TWO 2,500 gallon water tanks and a 1,000 emergency tank. I did a 3 year analysis of rainfall - week by week - so I know exactly how much water I have to store when it storms in order to get through the weeks/months when it doesn't. My analyis included 2011 which was one of the driest years since the dustbowl. Just saying. No joke. But most people can't do what I do. They want to drive nice cars and shit like that. Their wives want to wear designer clothes. My wife's clothes could fit in a closet the size of a refrigerator box. And she's fine with that.
> 
> View attachment 82319
> 
> 
> Bikes - plus enough extra parts to keep them going. Notice they are exactly the same year, make and model that makes all parts interchageable and all my spare parts will fit on both bikes.
> View attachment 82321
> 
> 
> Low energy apartment I built can run off my solar array, a very small generator, or just be lived in dark. From the air it looks like a chicken shack, from the dirt road it looks like an outbuilding. Cooking is gas powered. Heat is wood/gas powered. I have 6 months worth of candles, but it's easier to just sleep when it's dark. Since this pic I put a ceiling fan over the bed. I can flip one switch and cross over from grid power to my solar array. (I painted the art. ) The lamp on the nighstand was made from the cam shaft out of the one of the Prius engines I replaced. You gotta have skills as well as preps - mechanical, welding, agricultural, etc.
> View attachment 82323
> 
> 
> It doesn't hurt to read as well. Tao Te Ching, Sun Tzu, Marcus Aurilellius, Machiavelli, History, Philosophy, Sociology, Psychology, Art, Construction, etc. What has thousands and thousands of pages of history taught me that applies to being prepared. ARMIES with guns always win against INDIVIDUALS with guns. If you plan on taking on the government can I have your preps? Against the government Any civilian without a gun will live longer than an iyndividual with a gun. One on one, it might be better to have a gun. But it's generally better to have quick feet. I have guns, but I also run 5 miles regularly, hike 5+ miles often with a pack and work out. Step one to staying alive - don't go where there is danger. Step two - don't go where there is danger. Step three - run. Step four - hide. Step five - Lie! Step six - give them what they want. Step seven - pull out your dick and start whacking off.
> Step NINE - pull a gun out. My point is, most people just think Gun = Safety. Most people don't actually think. What would Machiavelli do?
> 
> It's 4 pm, time to eat something. Why this, because if you don't eat it now how do you know you'll be able to end it when the SHTF? Plus it's a lot easier to stay the right weight on preps than on Cheeseburgers. Why aren't most people prepared - including most preppers? Because you have to be CRAZY to be truly prepared. I have climbed mountains, Camped in the woods for 3 days with nothing but a garbage bag and a knife, trekked in Alaska in Winter, and directed A-1 Abrams tanks in the desert. It's fun to be crazy.
> 
> My brother moved 500 feet down the dirt road 3 years ago. My son and his family will be building a house on the land next Summer. My daughter lives in a RV near the city. As long as my EMP proof truck is running (with diesel that I have stored) I can go drag her and her house back onto the land.
> 
> View attachment 82331


You do realize that you just gave out enough information about your property and possessions than any half baked idiot willing to put some time in will know exactly where you live and that you've got plenty of food don't you?


----------



## Marchosias

Im brand new to prepping etc and Im smart enough to know how dumb I am. And Im not dumb enough to post what I have, and approximate where I have it.....Agreed Elvis...Wtf is he thinking? Bragging most likely...........Silly


----------



## tonybluegoat

Marchosias said:


> Im brand new to prepping etc and Im smart enough to know how dumb I am. And Im not dumb enough to post what I have, and approximate where I have it.....Agreed Elvis...Wtf is he thinking? Bragging most likely...........Silly


My name is Anthony Okrongly. I live 3 miles north of Elkhart Texas. If you delusional idiots think that anything you post on this pissant site has any bearing on reality it's because you're living a comic book reality.

This is a masturbation fantasy site for doomsday crack babies. And what's even worse. When faced with A real prepper you all cry and blubber.

I was curious about the real levels of preparedness. There is none. You're all Facebook preppers with some guns. You're only a threat to your children and wives.

Bye. You may continue your whining and delusions.


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## Steve40th

Unless I live in an area where there are very few people or on a mountain top, to be able to look down at adversaries, I am not 
leaving the house.
My neighbors are prepared and I know we can hold of gangs, etc. For quit some time. 
If I were to leave, where would I go, really. Many people know this area much better than I and I guarantee many are ready to immigrants coming into their residence.


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## WhatTheHeck

Steve40th said:


> Unless I live in an area where there are very few people or on a mountain top, to be able to look down at adversaries, I am not
> leaving the house.
> My neighbors are prepared and I know we can hold of gangs, etc. For quit some time.
> If I were to leave, where would I go, really. Many people know this area much better than I and I guarantee many are ready to immigrants coming into their residence.


I do not know Steve.

I lived in Crowfield. 
I knew maybe three of my neighbors.

Summerville was worse. Walking the dog, I would get dirty looks. 
No one waved or said hello. 
I felt safer in downtown New Orleans then I did there.


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## Steve40th

WhatTheHeck said:


> I do not know Steve.
> 
> I lived in Crowfield.
> I knew maybe three of my neighbors.
> 
> Summerville was worse. Walking the dog, I would get dirty looks.
> No one waved or said hello.
> I felt safer in downtown New Orleans then I did there.


I know 5 neighbors, and one further down the street. We need more block partys.. We have had one in 8 years. We had one hurricane, Mathew where some of us were out drinking, music and chain saws fixing issues. But, unlike when I grew up, everyone knew everyone.
Times are different.
Block partys may need to be reinvented...If ya cant trust your neighbors, you are screwed, as they are.
Crowfield is a bit of a snobby neighborhood, to an extent...I agree


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## WhatTheHeck

Steve40th said:


> I know 5 neighbors, and one further down the street. We need more block partys.. We have had one in 8 years. We had one hurricane, Mathew where some of us were out drinking, music and chain saws fixing issues. But, unlike when I grew up, everyone knew everyone.
> Times are different.
> Block partys may need to be reinvented...If ya cant trust your neighbors, you are screwed, as they are.
> Crowfield is a bit of a snobby neighborhood, to an extent...I agree


Ah.
The block party.
I lived briefly off Murry Dr, just outside of base.

I do not recall which storm it was, but a number of my co-workers lived there. Yep, grilling, drinks, the whole neighborhood smelled of BBQ.
Good times.


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## WhatTheHeck

I worked at SPWAR as a lousy contractor on the far side of the school house you are at.

They still call them USS Go-No-Where, and USS Stand-Still?

The back nine of the base course is nice.
The font nine sucks.


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## Steve40th

WhatTheHeck said:


> I worked at SPWAR as a lousy contractor on the far side of the school house you are at.
> 
> They still call them USS Go-No-Where, and USS Stand-Still?
> 
> The back nine of the base course is nice.
> The font nine sucks.


I am working as a contractor for US Navys NPTU. Not a SPAWAR project, which our company normally works. This is our last contract job, then its unemployment more than likely...Been with this company for years, and they have dismantled the Charleston office. VT Milcom..


----------



## WhatTheHeck

Steve40th said:


> I am working as a contractor for US Navys NPTU. Not a SPAWAR project, which our company normally works. This is our last contract job, then its unemployment more than likely...Been with this company for years, and they have dismantled the Charleston office. VT Milcom..


Dang Steve.

Sorry to hear that.

Contracting can be such a whore.

If push comes to shove, I still have contacts within SPAWAR and some other entities. I can push your resume to some others. 
No guarantees. 
PM me if it comes to that.


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## Steve40th

WhatTheHeck said:


> Dang Steve.
> 
> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> Contracting can be such a whore.
> 
> If push comes to shove, I still have contacts within SPAWAR and some other entities. I can push your resume to some others.
> No guarantees.
> PM me if it comes to that.


Thanks. That is a great offer. Last time I applied for SPAWAR was in 2012, and they havent been hiring much at all, unless Engineers.
I wanted to be an OSIC as I enjoy managing a project to completion and assisting company's/contractors getting their projects done..Being a retired Submarine Chief, I still can work with superiors and subordinates alike. 
I will definitely ask for help if it happens, which I am sure it will..


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## tonybluegoat

Marchosias said:


> Im brand new to prepping etc and Im smart enough to know how dumb I am. And Im not dumb enough to post what I have, and approximate where I have it.....Agreed Elvis...Wtf is he thinking? Bragging most likely...........Silly


The only reason this site looks like it has good information is because you are new to prepping. After reviewing hundreds of threads on this site I can safely say that the people who pretend to be experts are no more prepared than your average Boy Scout ... except that they all own lots of guns. It's the delusional leading the gullible. You can pick which one you are. I posted the information above to START a discussion what what it ACTUALLY takes to be prepared. You can see what the response is. A bunch of gun happy dreaming, insults and generalizations - "I'm going to stay put." (When in reality they don't own where they live... the bank does... and in a few short months of no income they will be booted out) "I'll shoot everything that comes near my car." (zombie fantasy) I have only seen one example on this forum so far of people actually testing their preps (other than shooting guns). If you can't shut off your electricity and operate for a week in a test - which no one ever does - then how can you expect them to sustain you over months? The one person I saw actually test a prep was using a small solar array to try to run a window AC unit. The result? It didn't work and the local solar (not prepper idiots on this site) solar experts told him what type of inverter he needs to switch to.... the inverter costs $1,800 which he said "wouldn't provide a payback" so I guess he isn't doing it. That's what happens when you actually test preps. You learn that the ideas you THINK will work don't actually work in a real test. I have a 3,500 watt solar array and none of my preps involve running a deep freezer or living on air conditioning. Why? Because I've tested how that actually works. It doesn't.

I wanted to see who - if anyone - on this site had any idea what they were talking about and could explain in detail what they have actually done and tested. There are none. A lot of these idiots think they know how to be prepared because they were in the military. I was in the military. The military uses massive amounts of supplies and support and a hundred years of experience. Being a cog in that machine only teaches you how to shoot and walk in a line. Not much else.

So, I would say good luck. But the reality is that the people on this site can't help you.

How many meals per week do you eat out of your prepper food storage?

The most common prepper condition is a lack of electricity. How long have you left the electricity in your home off to test your preps?

If you plan on living outside based on your preps how many consecutive days have you spent outside surviving on your preps alone?

How many months, weeks, days can you survive on Zero Income and No Access to money in the bank? Try it. Lock your wallet up for a week - no ID, no debit card....

One of the most likely disasters you will actually face is a house fire. 4 am the fire alarm goes off. You wake up in smoke... put on a robe, go get your kids and get out of the house. Maybe you remembered to grab your cell phone to call 911. 5 hours later your house is a smoldering hulk... Where is your wallet? On your nightstand - burned up. Where are your keys? On the kitchen counter - burned up. Where is your car? In the garage - burned up. Where are your preps? In the garage - burned up. Go to the bank and try to get some money! How will you get there? What ID will you give them? Let's go stay at a hotel.... How? You have no access to money in the bank, no ID and no car. There's an easy fix to this - keep separate ID and money somewhere else. But "prepper's" don't do that. They buy guns and talk about which hollow point has the most impact. So what would they really do in this situation? CALL MOM AND DAD or GO LIVE AT MY BROTHER'S PLACE. Why? Because they aren't prepared.

Every prep I have is tested, proven and refined.... I am NOT prepared for everything. But at least I actually test my preps. In 2 days I will be getting 60 lbs of different "just add water" dessert mixes. I will test these over the next 6 months. Different cooking methods from propane oven to dutch oven in a campfire. I will test how much I should store per mylar bag for the best use in an emergency. I will integrate it into my storage plan... and I will eat them regularly to see if they are any good or give me diarrhea, etc. What happens if I add canned fruit? Can I make a cobbler in a dutch oven with it? How many ounces of dry mix is required to make the kinds of dessert I might want? The 60 lbs test will cost me about $85 and probably lead to testing other long-term storage desserts. And that's just cake mix.


----------



## MaterielGeneral

tonybluegoat said:


> The only reason this site looks like it has good information is because you are new to prepping. After reviewing hundreds of threads on this site I can safely say that the people who pretend to be experts are no more prepared than your average Boy Scout ... except that they all own lots of guns. It's the delusional leading the gullible. You can pick which one you are. I posted the information above to START a discussion what what it ACTUALLY takes to be prepared. You can see what the response is. A bunch of gun happy dreaming, insults and generalizations - "I'm going to stay put." (When in reality they don't own where they live... the bank does... and in a few short months of no income they will be booted out) "I'll shoot everything that comes near my car." (zombie fantasy) I have only seen one example on this forum so far of people actually testing their preps (other than shooting guns). If you can't shut off your electricity and operate for a week in a test - which no one ever does - then how can you expect them to sustain you over months? The one person I saw actually test a prep was using a small solar array to try to run a window AC unit. The result? It didn't work and the local solar (not prepper idiots on this site) solar experts told him what type of inverter he needs to switch to.... the inverter costs $1,800 which he said "wouldn't provide a payback" so I guess he isn't doing it. That's what happens when you actually test preps. You learn that the ideas you THINK will work don't actually work in a real test. I have a 3,500 watt solar array and none of my preps involve running a deep freezer or living on air conditioning. Why? Because I've tested how that actually works. It doesn't.
> 
> I wanted to see who - if anyone - on this site had any idea what they were talking about and could explain in detail what they have actually done and tested. There are none. A lot of these idiots think they know how to be prepared because they were in the military. I was in the military. The military uses massive amounts of supplies and support and a hundred years of experience. Being a cog in that machine only teaches you how to shoot and walk in a line. Not much else.
> 
> So, I would say good luck. But the reality is that the people on this site can't help you.
> 
> How many meals per week do you eat out of your prepper food storage?
> 
> The most common prepper condition is a lack of electricity. How long have you left the electricity in your home off to test your preps?
> 
> If you plan on living outside based on your preps how many consecutive days have you spent outside surviving on your preps alone?
> 
> How many months, weeks, days can you survive on Zero Income and No Access to money in the bank? Try it. Lock your wallet up for a week - no ID, no debit card....
> 
> One of the most likely disasters you will actually face is a house fire. 4 am the fire alarm goes off. You wake up in smoke... put on a robe, go get your kids and get out of the house. Maybe you remembered to grab your cell phone to call 911. 5 hours later your house is a smoldering hulk... Where is your wallet? On your nightstand - burned up. Where are your keys? On the kitchen counter - burned up. Where is your car? In the garage - burned up. Where are your preps? In the garage - burned up. Go to the bank and try to get some money! How will you get there? What ID will you give them? Let's go stay at a hotel.... How? You have no access to money in the bank, no ID and no car. There's an easy fix to this - keep separate ID and money somewhere else. But "prepper's" don't do that. They buy guns and talk about which hollow point has the most impact. So what would they really do in this situation? CALL MOM AND DAD or GO LIVE AT MY BROTHER'S PLACE. Why? Because they aren't prepared.
> 
> Every prep I have is tested, proven and refined.... I am NOT prepared for everything. But at least I actually test my preps. In 2 days I will be getting 60 lbs of different "just add water" dessert mixes. I will test these over the next 6 months. Different cooking methods from propane oven to dutch oven in a campfire. I will test how much I should store per mylar bag for the best use in an emergency. I will integrate it into my storage plan... and I will eat them regularly to see if they are any good or give me diarrhea, etc. What happens if I add canned fruit? Can I make a cobbler in a dutch oven with it? How many ounces of dry mix is required to make the kinds of dessert I might want? The 60 lbs test will cost me about $85 and probably lead to testing other long-term storage desserts. And that's just cake mix.


You need to relax a little and expect to be F'd with a little. Take it with a grain of salt.

As for members watch what you say. Not everyone tells about all their preps. Everyone is at different levels. Nobody is fully prepared. I seriously doubt you have went through every thread.

If you stay with the negative drama posts you are going to have a hard time staying here, eventually being banned.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## hawgrider

Blow goat is next on the chopping block! Say hi to Okie for me Goat!


----------



## inceptor

tonybluegoat said:


> So, I would say good luck. But the reality is that the people on this site can't help you.


If this site is so bad, why are you still here?????


----------



## Chiefster23

tonybluegoat said:


> The only reason this site looks like it has good information is because you are new to prepping. After reviewing hundreds of threads on this site I can safely say that the people who pretend to be experts are no more prepared than your average Boy Scout ... except that they all own lots of guns. It's the delusional leading the gullible. You can pick which one you are. I posted the information above to START a discussion what what it ACTUALLY takes to be prepared. You can see what the response is. A bunch of gun happy dreaming, insults and generalizations - "I'm going to stay put." (When in reality they don't own where they live... the bank does... and in a few short months of no income they will be booted out) "I'll shoot everything that comes near my car." (zombie fantasy) I have only seen one example on this forum so far of people actually testing their preps (other than shooting guns). If you can't shut off your electricity and operate for a week in a test - which no one ever does - then how can you expect them to sustain you over months? The one person I saw actually test a prep was using a small solar array to try to run a window AC unit. The result? It didn't work and the local solar (not prepper idiots on this site) solar experts told him what type of inverter he needs to switch to.... the inverter costs $1,800 which he said "wouldn't provide a payback" so I guess he isn't doing it. That's what happens when you actually test preps. You learn that the ideas you THINK will work don't actually work in a real test. I have a 3,500 watt solar array and none of my preps involve running a deep freezer or living on air conditioning. Why? Because I've tested how that actually works. It doesn't.
> 
> I wanted to see who - if anyone - on this site had any idea what they were talking about and could explain in detail what they have actually done and tested. There are none. A lot of these idiots think they know how to be prepared because they were in the military. I was in the military. The military uses massive amounts of supplies and support and a hundred years of experience. Being a cog in that machine only teaches you how to shoot and walk in a line. Not much else.
> 
> So, I would say good luck. But the reality is that the people on this site can't help you.
> 
> How many meals per week do you eat out of your prepper food storage?
> 
> The most common prepper condition is a lack of electricity. How long have you left the electricity in your home off to test your preps?
> 
> If you plan on living outside based on your preps how many consecutive days have you spent outside surviving on your preps alone?
> 
> How many months, weeks, days can you survive on Zero Income and No Access to money in the bank? Try it. Lock your wallet up for a week - no ID, no debit card....
> 
> One of the most likely disasters you will actually face is a house fire. 4 am the fire alarm goes off. You wake up in smoke... put on a robe, go get your kids and get out of the house. Maybe you remembered to grab your cell phone to call 911. 5 hours later your house is a smoldering hulk... Where is your wallet? On your nightstand - burned up. Where are your keys? On the kitchen counter - burned up. Where is your car? In the garage - burned up. Where are your preps? In the garage - burned up. Go to the bank and try to get some money! How will you get there? What ID will you give them? Let's go stay at a hotel.... How? You have no access to money in the bank, no ID and no car. There's an easy fix to this - keep separate ID and money somewhere else. But "prepper's" don't do that. They buy guns and talk about which hollow point has the most impact. So what would they really do in this situation? CALL MOM AND DAD or GO LIVE AT MY BROTHER'S PLACE. Why? Because they aren't prepared.
> 
> Every prep I have is tested, proven and refined.... I am NOT prepared for everything. But at least I actually test my preps. In 2 days I will be getting 60 lbs of different "just add water" dessert mixes. I will test these over the next 6 months. Different cooking methods from propane oven to dutch oven in a campfire. I will test how much I should store per mylar bag for the best use in an emergency. I will integrate it into my storage plan... and I will eat them regularly to see if they are any good or give me diarrhea, etc. What happens if I add canned fruit? Can I make a cobbler in a dutch oven with it? How many ounces of dry mix is required to make the kinds of dessert I might want? The 60 lbs test will cost me about $85 and probably lead to testing other long-term storage desserts. And that's just cake mix.


OK, Mr. Keyboard commando.
I actually did purchase the required inverter to run the window air conditioner. It works. I also bought a larger charge controller and additional solar panels. I have sucessfully run the AC, fridge, and freezer. (Not all at the same time). My solar set up is in daily use. I test run (under load) my generators periodically.

I have gardens, berry bushes, and fruit trees. I can, freeze, and dehydrate. I have adequate stores of food and meds and rotate (use) them. I have and use multiple means of cooking with fuel and spares stockpiled.

I have made and installed security improvements to my home and property.

If the grid went down tomorrow, I could survive quite nicely for months without any undue hardship.

Trust me. Although you think you are the only real prepper on this site........ you aren't!


----------



## hawgrider

inceptor said:


> If this site is so bad, why are you still here?????


He can't leave his prius is broke down.



> GTO? What an impractical prepper car. My wife and I drive the same model 2006 Toyota Prius...


----------



## inceptor

tonybluegoat said:


> The only reason this site looks like it has good information is because you are new to prepping. After reviewing hundreds of threads on this site I can safely say that the people who pretend to be experts are no more prepared than your average Boy Scout ... except that they all own lots of guns. It's the delusional leading the gullible.


Oh yeah, and it ain't none of your damn business what I have or don't have. Bragging about what you have is downright stupid.

Coming across like Billy Badass. Keep assuming you're the smartest one out there. See how long you last.


----------



## MaterielGeneral

tonybluegoat said:


> Great questions. I have built an apartment on my property separate from my home. This is a Low Energy use alternative to the house. It can run almost exclusively on the solar, has dedicated wood heat with propane as a backup and is much smaller - more efficient. So in case of something like a fire I have an alternate location. If the entire property became unlivable then I would just stay here and die. I have no delusions that I'm superman. I did what I could do to get out of the city. I am as far away from major cities (2 hour+) as I can get and still create an income. Any farther out and I wouldn't have any money.
> 
> Let's lay out disasters....
> 
> Hurricane... I'm actually about 3.5 hours from the coast so I'm actually far enough away that it's not a real problem. Probably just localized flooding. The city I live next to is actually a staging area for emergency equipment and electrical line equipment for hurricanes that might effect Houston and the Texas coast to Louisiana. So good.
> 
> Tornado... I used to live in Dallas, very tornado like. I'm across what I will call the "wet line." Tornadoes occur on the "dry line" I'm far enough East that we don't get tornadoes... Maybe one per decade. That's better than North Texas that gets about 10 - 20 per year (or something similar). Plus I live in a narrow valley, tornado (if it came) would have a hard time dipping back down after clearing the ridge on either side.
> 
> Flooding... Localized flooding can always occur. You just need to know your elevation and drainage profile. We've had some serious rain and hurricane fueled rains over the years. I've stayed dry.
> 
> Forest Fires... That's a real hazard for me. East Texas has drought most summers and forest fires are a real potential. I have the area cleared around my house enough that I might be able to protect it. A real California type forest fire I would bug out and rebuild. It's not a true disaster because it only affects my STUFF. Not my ability to earn income or buy an RV to live in until I rebuilt a house. I built the one I'm in now.
> 
> Nuclear... Houston and Dallas are each 2.5 hours away. So if they get nuked there will be fallout. I've looked at the projections. I'm on the outermost band of either. It all depends on the winds. There's actually more of a danger of Nuclear Winter affecting crop growth in North America due to a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India. I wrote an article about it a couple weeks ago. I tried to repost the text here but it got "admin"ed. Not sure why, maybe because I was new. It's the main danger to the U.S. from a nuclear standpoint - unless you live in DC or NYC (dirty bomb).
> 
> EMP... Affects everyone, but Solar Flare based issues are stronger the farther you get north. I'm as south as I can get without living in a desert or speaking Spanish. Not really but as far south as I want to live. At some point you start to lose rainfall, which is really important. Texas is on it's own electric grid - unlike the rest of the country. I don't know if that makes us safer or more vulnerable. But a solar or nuke based EMP that effects the East Coast might not affect Texas... no way to know for sure. Plus I have solar... that is if the inverter and wiring survives whatever the event might be.
> 
> Drought....and Global Warming... My area gets an average of 3.5 inches of rain per month. It comes more in the spring and fall. The Heat of the summer can get very dry. Trees (orchards) are a better plan than gardens if you're trying to do it without irrigation. I live in a valley so I have lots of ability to collect runoff if I want to dig a bigger pond. I have a small one. In reference to global warming, I've read every study I can find, state and national. I'm in a micro-climate that has 4 inputs - Weather from the West (california), from the south (Mexico), and from the Gulf of Mexico.... then it is sometimes affected when the Jet Stream drips really low. But the Gulf of Mexico moisture has a big impact that insulates us from drought. If you look on a map you can see where the dessert affects West Texas and can even encroach on Austin and Dallas areas if it spreads. I'm too far East for dessertification, and too far inland for sea rise. The weather will get slightly hotter and the rainfall will become more dry season/wet season oriented... so orchards are a better long-term plan than crops... And picking chill-hour plants that have a wider range doesn't hurt.
> 
> Gardening - this soil is great for blackberries, peppers, sweet potatoes, and all squash/cucumber/watermelon type things. It's also great for blueberries. Trees - Pecan, Peach and Pear do well without too much input. Some others can be babied into working here. Anything else would require inputs that wouldn't really be available.
> 
> Animals - good grazing for cows or browse for goats. My neighbor keeps cows. I have kept a herd of goats, but I don't have any at the moment. This was a goat farm when I bought it.
> 
> Railroad - 3-5 miles away. Unless it's a nuclear bomb it's really hard for the effects of any spill to reach this far. Since there aren't many crossings or other traffic (just one or two on country roads) the chances of an incident are very low. But the railroad also gives a good opportunity. I drive to Austin a lot. If there is a major incident that shuts down the roads or makes cars unusable then I have researched the routes and the trains coming from Mexico through Austin carrying cars and other goods out of Mexico come up these tracks. So could ride a train from Austin to within 3 miles of my house.
> 
> River - 5 miles away is the Trinity River, the deepest most navigable river in Texas. I also drive to Dallas, my wife drives to Dallas and my adult son and his family live in Dallas. Same gig as the trains. In a true emergency all one needs to do is boost a boat/canoe and he/she could get from Dallas to within 5 miles of the house without having to get on any roads. The trip would probably take 3 days. The river flows pretty quickly.
> 
> No nuclear or chemical plants.
> 
> Martial Law... The population density where I live is about about 30 people per square mile. (compared to Dallas County which has a population density of 3,000 people per square mile) So maintaining martial law or actually occupying land out here is nearly impossible. The plan if the military moves through is to go back into the woods on my property, wait for them to do their thing and move through, then reoccupy the house. It's more like the Afghan countryside than Kabul. Dallas is easy to occupy there are 20,000+ Dallas police officers, plus National Guard, plus, plus plus and it's very easy to control the roads. Out here we have no city police and 24 county deputies. 24. Divide that into 3 shifts and that's 8 per shift... One will be a supervisor, so they are useless. One will be off... And you're down to 6 deputies to patrol a 1,078 square mile county. In a SHTF situation they will be busy in the population center (county seat) not out here in the country. Plus I live square in the middle of Trump/Baptist/Confederate Flag country where every house has lots of guns and people who "won't take no truck from government people."
> 
> False evacuation... same thing.. Just leave the house and go in the woods. They won't have the time or resources to search 30 acres of woods. They will assume we already left. They can't occupy the house there aren't that many people. The only National Guard station is a transportation unit will about 80 people in it. We know them. They live here too.
> 
> Here's a trick on what to say/do when you hit any roadblock vs what not to do.
> 
> Here's what NOT to do/say.... "This is AMERICA! I now my Goddamn rights. That's why I carry a gun. You people can't tell me where the hell to go or what the hell to do.... etc. etc." That will result in the phrase "SIR, GET OUT OF THE CAR!"
> 
> Here's what TO do/say... "What's happening? Was there an escaped prisoner. I think I can help.... Do you want me to help? I have a dog at home that's really good at tracking people down..." (Start to get out of the car to help them.) I was in the Boy Scouts... I bet I can help you guys out.." That will result in the phrase "SIR, GET BACK IN THE CAR AND KEEP MOVING."
> 
> Cops avoid people who want to help and arrest people who want to fight.
> 
> GTO? What an impractical prepper car. My wife and I drive the same model 2006 Toyota Prius... That way we can interchange parts. I keep an extra Prius engine on hand at all times. I will be buying a 3rd same model Prius as a backup/parts car before the end of the year. They cost nothing and I can fix anything that breaks on them. My last car (totalled) was a 2006 Toyota Prius. I've swapped 2 engines and 3 hybrid batteries. My current hybrid batter is a brand new own (not a rebuild) so it will last until 2028 and can be swapped into whatever Prius is running best. They get 42 mpg on average driving 75 mph. So I could get to either coast on 35 gallons of gas. I keep 250 gallons on hand and 15 5 gallon cans. The other thing about Prius' is that they are Pussy cars. So it's easy to pass unnoticed. They have a ton of space inside. My Prius even has a tow hitch... the car is rated to tow 1,000 lbs, but I've done 1,500 no problem (not in the mountains).
> 
> I also have a truck, another beater car that runs on alcohol and two motorcycles that can go on the highway or cross country (if it's dry).
> 
> Never underestimate the power of social camouflage. Never look like a prepper. Never look like you know what's going on. Always act confused or overly helpful. Never be a threat.
> 
> This is where I think most prepper get it wrong. Look at the Vietcong... white shirt "yes sir"... look at the Afghans in the country "I don't understand" "No Taliban." These are the same people who shot up a convoy or a patrol the week before. Look like a soldier - all geared up carrying guns - die like a soldier - in blaze of glory.... DO NOT FIGHT THE GOVERNMENT. you will lose. The Indians lost, and every one who looks like a target gets shot. You don't have drones and air power. Look like a rice farmer. Drive a Prius, be a dog trainer, etc.
> 
> Notice my car doesn't have any dumbass bumper stickers that say "live free or die" or "Trump" or "Obama" or any confederate flags or anything else. Anonymous. Yes I have a Radio Operator's license, an alcohol permit, tax exempt agricultural status, homestead exemptions and every other cover I can get. I paid $308 last year in property taxes. I pay NOTHING in Federal Income Tax... I make too little money. I live in a state with no state income tax. My ag exemption gets me out of many sales taxes. I bought a $24,000 tractor and trailer package from John Deere and paid no sales tax (saving about $2,000). How? Agricultural exemption. I file my federal tax ever year. I'm poor! I'm stupid! I'm no threat to anyone! I'm certainly not a prepper.
> 
> Most preppers aren't really preppers. They are regular people who have regular jobs, have a mortgage and car payments, and live in a city. They buy a lot of crap... but when the shit hits the fan they are dead... They have TOO MANY NEEDS AND NO REAL ASSETS. I own my land, own my cars, have no credit card bills. I work for myself in a cash business. I have tractor, land, wood, gas, propane, food, resources. I'm not saying that everyone could do that. But it's a choice. If you really want to be prepared then REALLY prepare. I used to be a Vice President for a Corporation in Dallas. I had a big house and a pool and a mortgage and 2 car payments and a room food of preps. I decided that wasn't really going to be enough. So I MADE myself PREPARED. At the same time I made a really relaxing life. My required budget is $865 per month. I make a lot more than that. In a true emergency (no electricity, no cable TV emergency) I have NO FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS WHATSOEVER. I could sit in my house and eat my preps while using my solar electricity on sunny days for a year and not a single bill would show up, no eviction notice, no repossession notice, no sheriff. No joke. Am I prepared for everything? No. I haven't planted the orchard yet, and it will take 7 years to mature. I don't have good rain catchment. I need to buy TWO 2,500 gallon water tanks and a 1,000 emergency tank. I did a 3 year analysis of rainfall - week by week - so I know exactly how much water I have to store when it storms in order to get through the weeks/months when it doesn't. My analyis included 2011 which was one of the driest years since the dustbowl. Just saying. No joke. But most people can't do what I do. They want to drive nice cars and shit like that. Their wives want to wear designer clothes. My wife's clothes could fit in a closet the size of a refrigerator box. And she's fine with that.
> 
> View attachment 82319
> 
> 
> Bikes - plus enough extra parts to keep them going. Notice they are exactly the same year, make and model that makes all parts interchageable and all my spare parts will fit on both bikes.
> View attachment 82321
> 
> 
> Low energy apartment I built can run off my solar array, a very small generator, or just be lived in dark. From the air it looks like a chicken shack, from the dirt road it looks like an outbuilding. Cooking is gas powered. Heat is wood/gas powered. I have 6 months worth of candles, but it's easier to just sleep when it's dark. Since this pic I put a ceiling fan over the bed. I can flip one switch and cross over from grid power to my solar array. (I painted the art. ) The lamp on the nighstand was made from the cam shaft out of the one of the Prius engines I replaced. You gotta have skills as well as preps - mechanical, welding, agricultural, etc.
> View attachment 82323
> 
> 
> It doesn't hurt to read as well. Tao Te Ching, Sun Tzu, Marcus Aurilellius, Machiavelli, History, Philosophy, Sociology, Psychology, Art, Construction, etc. What has thousands and thousands of pages of history taught me that applies to being prepared. ARMIES with guns always win against INDIVIDUALS with guns. If you plan on taking on the government can I have your preps? Against the government Any civilian without a gun will live longer than an iyndividual with a gun. One on one, it might be better to have a gun. But it's generally better to have quick feet. I have guns, but I also run 5 miles regularly, hike 5+ miles often with a pack and work out. Step one to staying alive - don't go where there is danger. Step two - don't go where there is danger. Step three - run. Step four - hide. Step five - Lie! Step six - give them what they want. Step seven - pull out your dick and start whacking off.
> Step NINE - pull a gun out. My point is, most people just think Gun = Safety. Most people don't actually think. What would Machiavelli do?
> 
> It's 4 pm, time to eat something. Why this, because if you don't eat it now how do you know you'll be able to end it when the SHTF? Plus it's a lot easier to stay the right weight on preps than on Cheeseburgers. Why aren't most people prepared - including most preppers? Because you have to be CRAZY to be truly prepared. I have climbed mountains, Camped in the woods for 3 days with nothing but a garbage bag and a knife, trekked in Alaska in Winter, and directed A-1 Abrams tanks in the desert. It's fun to be crazy.
> 
> My brother moved 500 feet down the dirt road 3 years ago. My son and his family will be building a house on the land next Summer. My daughter lives in a RV near the city. As long as my EMP proof truck is running (with diesel that I have stored) I can go drag her and her house back onto the land.
> 
> View attachment 82331


2006 Toyota Prius? Real preppers drive trucks, LoL. Just F'ing with you.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## WhatTheHeck

Steve40th said:


> Thanks. That is a great offer. Last time I applied for SPAWAR was in 2012, and they havent been hiring much at all, unless Engineers.
> I wanted to be an OSIC as I enjoy managing a project to completion and assisting company's/contractors getting their projects done..Being a retired Submarine Chief, I still can work with superiors and subordinates alike.
> I will definitely ask for help if it happens, which I am sure it will..


No worries.

Try to help out a fellow vet when I can.

V/R


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## WhatTheHeck

I do not know.

Mr. Tony Blue Goat has made some very good suggestions and or points.

And he knows how to use proper grammer. 

I read his posts with interest. They are well thought out. 

We are all here to learn. 
I know I am.


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## hawgrider

I'm here for the booze and BBQ


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## WhatTheHeck

hawgrider said:


> I'm here for the booze and BBQ


Now, there is something to be said about those.


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## Deebo

I like him, he can write, and he seems legit.
A little serious, but, hey, who am i to judge.
Stick around, Bluegoat.


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## tonybluegoat

MaterielGeneral said:


> 2006 Toyota Prius? Real preppers drive trucks, LoL. Just F'ing with you.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk












View attachment 82551


This is Pu-erh tea. It comes in a puck, about 350 grams which is roughly the same as what's claimed to come in a 48 count Lipton Family size tea bags box. Why is tea important? Because boiled water tastes flat. Adding something to boiled water makes it taste better. If there is no public services for water then water eventually will need to be boiled. You could, perhaps, store Lipton tea bags in mylar with an oxygen absorber. I haven't tried it. I don't know how long Lipton tea can store.

I do know how long Pu-erh tea can store... Over the first 50 years the tea will get better with age. Over second 50 years the tea will slowly lose it's essential elements. Pu-erh is fermented tea pucks. They have existed for thousands of years. It's a green tea that you can use like any other tea. Break some off... Steep it.









The trade-off is cost. A 48 count of Lipton family size tea bags costs $4... that's 12 oz or 360 grams of tea. A 365 gram puck of Pu-erh tea on Amazon will run about $19. So, it's 5x the price. But it will last 50x as long.

Assuming Lipton tea can store for at least a year and you rotate your stock then it's feasible to just use the cheaper Lipton. I use 2 tea bags per pitcher of tea. In a pinch I could probably use just 1. If I split the difference then a box of tea will last a month. So I would need to store 12 boxes of 48 count Lipton Family tea bags x $4 per box = $48 for a year's supply of tea. I would probably go ahead and open the boxes and store 3 boxes of loose bags in a mylar bag with an oxygen absorber. Then use a tupperware container to store when using. 4 Mylar gallon bags would probably do it.

Storing Pu-erh tea is simple. Just store it someplace dry with a stable temp... but not in the bathroom or the kitchen. It prefers stable humidity and can absorb environmental smells. (so don't store it in the cabinet over the stove... a hall closet is better.)

Assuming the same yield as Lipton out of Pu-erh and the cost is 12 x $20 = $240 for truly long term storage tea. If I was going to make buckets for LTS and only go into them in a true LTS emergency then I would spend the extra on Pu-erh tea. Since I like prepping I'll do a combination. 6-9 Pu-erh tea pucks in my long term storage buckets ($120 - $180) and 3-6 months of Lipton tea rotated through my extended use pantry ( $12-$24).

The only way to know is to test. I like the taste of Pu-erh a lot. Let's see what it yeilds when I use an entire puck over a period of time. Will it last a week, a month, or longer?

Iced Pu-erh tea.


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## tonybluegoat

Deebo said:


> I like him, he can write, and he seems legit.
> A little serious, but, hey, who am i to judge.
> Stick around, Bluegoat.


Thanks...

Is there value in institutional "add water only" baking mixes? I will be finding out over the next few weeks.

View attachment 82559


On Wednesday I will be receiving 60 lbs of cake mix. 30 lbs of chocolate and 30 lbs of blueberry muffin mix. These are both "just add water" mixes. Why?

Most muffin and cake mixes at the store require ingredients that aren't easy to store for long periods of time... "Just add Milk" or "Add Oil and Eggs."

It can be argued that milk can be gotten from goats (I have owned milk goats) or a cow (I have not owned a cow). That oil can be substituted for butter (milk cows only). And that eggs can be gotten from chickens (I've owned hundreds of chickens).

However, there are some holes in that logic. First, DO YOU currently own cows, chickens or milk goats. If not, then the chances are you won't. The second hole in the logic is understood by people who DO own cows, chickens and goats.... they require inputs. Chickens in particular. If you can't buy eggs at the store then chances are you also cannot buy chicken feed at the store. So what are you going to feed your chickens in order to get eggs? If the answer is "I will free-range them." Then the next question is HAVE YOU EVER FREE RANGED CHICKENS? It's harder than it looks. It turns out that EVERYTHING eats CHICKEN. Hawks, dogs, o'possoms, racoons, foxes, even snakes eat smaller ones. It's not hard to turn 20 chickens into 4 chickens in short order by free-ranging them. How do I know? I have found piles of chicken feathers many times when I let my chickens free-range. Plus free range chickens very quickly turn into free-range layers... meaning they hide their eggs. (Happy Easter Egg Hunt!) In coops they are safe... and their eggs are where you can find them. But in coops you need to bring them food. The best food for them is chicken feed... in a SHTF situation if you don't have a storehouse of feed then you might was well just eat the chickens... you won't have eggs for cake mix is my point.

I have no experience with cows, but I do know that goats raised without supplemental feed don't do as well (particularly pregnant does) and depending on where you live, they may require stored feed to get through the winter. All of this falls under "don't believe what you see on YouTube."

So, why not just store baked goods that don't need milk, oil, butter or eggs? That's the test. That's why I ordered these mixes.

The reviews on the food are both good "loved it" and bad "dry and bland." The only way to know is to test.

I've used regular cake mix and canned peaches to make peach cobbler in a dutch oven. Can this be used the same way? The only way to know is to test.

The benefit of a 100% premix is that you can measure out exactly how much you want to make. When you are mixing ingredients to make a cake that's hard to do. But if I want to make just ONE CUPCAKE then I could mix just a few tablespoons of premix with a few tablespoons of water and make just one cupcake (or griddle cake perhaps)... the only way to know is to test.

There are also "water only" cookie mixes. Why did I buy 60 lbs? Because the shipping is better that way and I plan on saving it for LTS regardless of the tests. As I test more I can replace what I'm storing this week with better options in the future - if required.


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## tonybluegoat

I'm here to learn too!

What I learned from self-installing and using 3,500 watts of solar panels for 5 years.

View attachment 82561


First, if you're going to install solar you shouldn't plan on moving. They are both expensive and permanent. I'm never going to move off my land, so it made sense to me.

Second, it's no magic bullet. My 3,500 watts of solar cost about $4,000 to install and save me about $30 per month on my electricity bill.

Third, it's a great thing to do generally IF you willing to change how you use electricity. Before installing my solar array I went through how I use electricity and made drastic changes. In doing so I cut my electricity use in half... without using solar. (from about 2,000 kwh to less than 1,000 kwh)... The solar adds an additional 300 kwh per month in savings.

This is GRID-TIED solar with an EMERGENCY BLACKOUT BACKUP CIRCUIT. I don't use batteries. Batteries are very expensive and generally have to be replaced every 7 years. They are a non-starter for most home installations. Most grid tie solar setups DO NOT WORK in a blackout. The system has automatic shutoffs that render the power from the solar panels as useless. I use a Sunnyboy TL-US inverter. It's the only one I know of that has a work-around to the blackout issue. Other inverters might do it as well, but most don't. So check.

View attachment 82563


View attachment 82565


The Sunnyboy inverter has a separate circuit that you can tie into that redirects the solar power to a switched plug that is not connected to your housing wiring. It is a stand alone circuit. In my case I have a 3,000 watt inverter that will send power to a 1,500 watt bypass circuit in case of a blackout. That's very useful power. I have run my electronics and fans off that circuit during a blackout. I doubt it would run a refrigerator or a window AC unit because of their "surge watts."

During the Northeastern storm Sandy that had power out for a long period of time there were "cell phone zombies" wandering the streets looking for somewhere to plug in their cell phone chargers. It is possible that infrastructure like cell phones, cable TV or DirecTV and Internet providers are working and all you need to access it is a little power. That's what this circuit is for. Plus obviously fans and whatnot. It would be no good for Security lights... because it only works when the sun is up and the solar panels are collecting sunlight.

It could, however, be used to charge a car battery or some other power bank during the day that could then be used for night time lighting.

HOW HARD IS IT TO INSTALL?

It depends on how well you can follow directions. Most books and installers will try to scare you off self-installation. Just don't be an idiot and use safety procedures. My solar array puts out over 400 volts DC at about 8 watts. That's a fatal dose of electricity. I use breakers on both ends of my wiring, I installed on a very cloudy day, and I used basic common sense. Some would use rubber gloves.

What does it costs? If I were to build the same thing now it would cost about $3,200. I get the panels (new) off Craigslist... these are discontinued models, but they work just fine. I would get the Sunnyboy from ebay (new) but make sure it's the kind that has a bypass. Why not get it from a distributor and have the warranty? Because if you self-install it will probably void the warranty. The manufacturer has great customer support via phone. I used them when I installed.

My prep for an electrical outage that lasts a long time DOES NOT include any refrigerators or air conditioners. Why? Because they are extremely expensive (from an infrastructure point) to run. The biggest mistake most prepper make is to assume they can live post SHTF the same as pre-SHTF.

I do have a small generator for nightime power outage use. Why is it small? Because it's the most fuel efficient. I have a 4000 watt unit that goes through 5 gallons of gas in 10 hours. That means I would run through 150 gallons of gas in a month using it just at night. Or I have a 800 watt "earthquake" model that uses 2 gallons of gas per 10 hours. The same 150 gallons of gas would last 2.5 months using this generator. Most people do not have a way to store large amounts of gasoline. I store between 150 and 250 gallons because I live on a farm and have a fuel storage tank for gasoline, plus another fuel storage tank for diesel, plus another fuel storage take for propane. The benefits of already living in non-incorporated land. People who live in a home owner's association have much higher restrictions on what they do, over just city ordinances. So, if a generator is in your plans... remember gas... test the generator regularly... do simulated blackout to make sure you have all the required extension cords and can execute a plan. The most likely time you will be trying to fuel up and start your generator is in the middle of the night in the worst rainstorm of your life. IN PITCH BLACK. That's the case every time I've had to use mine.

By the way 5 months out of the year I can get my electricity bill below $35. In the heat of the summer I cannot - TEXAS. But I still dropped my summer use drastically by dumping central AC for individual window units (a poor man's "mini-split zoned" ac system) I do not use electric heat.

Here's an example of an electricity bill with Solar.









You'll notice the following. First, I only used about 750 kwh of electricity. Second I sold back about 150 kwh "GME Renewable Rewards Credits".... This particular month I probably generated about 450 kWh's. I directly used about 300 (meaning I was only billed for 750 kWh's but I used 1,050) and I sold 150 kWh's back to get a credit of $11. My final bill was $78. I use AC from April - October. In November - March I don't and the bill is about half that much.


----------



## ilmostrog

Good stuff. Keep it coming. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tonybluegoat

hawgrider said:


> I'm here for the booze and BBQ


Categorizing Preps... Short term ... Long term... Never need... Probably need....

Here's a probably need prep... and it's an important one.

My wife got the flu last flu season.... The answer to the flu is Tamiflu. It is an anti-viral that drastically reduces the symptoms and duration of the flu virus ... IF you take it within 72 hours of symptoms first appearing. My wife is like most people, she denied that she had the flu for the first 30 hours. Then she finally admitted it around 10 pm on a Thursday night.

She calls the Doctor's Office. "We can see you on Tuesday." She got the flu on a Tuesday... It has been 30 hours... now it's Thursday night... Next Tuesday will make a week. So there's no joy in that.

If she goes to the ER then it will cost $500 on her co-pay for a non-emergency ER visit. Then I see on the internet that the drug stores in our area are pretty much OUT OF TAMIFLU. They are out of stock. They expect to get more "the end of next week." So, even if she pays $500 to go to the ER and get a prescription she still won't be able to fill it in time.

View attachment 82571


I said, "I'll be right back." I went to my preps and brought her Generic Tamiflu that I had bought from an online pharmacy in India 4 months earlier... in the middle of the Summer... when no one was thinking about the Flu.

I don't remember where I ordered it, but they were very nice. I put my request in online. They called me back 10 minutes later and we did everything over the phone. I was suspicious but I figured "I've wasted $108 on food, strippers, cigars and everything else. Why not see?" In the end I ordered 2 packs.. One for her and one for me. She used her's I still have the other.

Along the same lines I get all my antibiotics "in bulk" from "fishmoxfishflex." The have great antibiotics. Yes, it is cheaper to get it on my insurance... technically. But what if I have strep and can't get into my doctor for 3 days because it's Friday afternoon? Spend $500 for an emergency room visit? That's not cheaper than $75 for all the antibiotics I need for the whole year... and they store fine if I don't need them.

Sometimes the most basic "emergency" happens every year. It can be predicted and prepared for. The Flu is a pretty basic prep.

"What if it's fake?" I'm not a 'fraidicat. If you can get your doctor to prescribe some that you can keep in your medicine cabinet that works too. I once talked my doctor into doing that for me. I told him I was a prepper. He was in a good mood.


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## tonybluegoat

Here's a fun one. It's my prepper medical kit. This is different from first aid. First aid is band-aid's and call 911. This is an "oh shit" first aid kit. Medical is not available... or I have used it on my mastiff when he needed something cut opened and drained.... or stuff has to happen RIGHT THE F*** NOW!

Pelican EMS case... not cheap, but I need lots of room and I need it to be very portable in very dynamic situations. Plus it's hard to lose and it comes with the extras that are good for rapidly use of medical supplies.









I'm an Eagle Scout and was a Combat Engineer. This does not make me a medic. But I've had more aid training than most. Plus my mother was a nurse. That doesn't make me a nurse, but I've seen what she carries.

#1 Scissors. It's incredibly hard to take someone's shirt off over their head when they have a complex, compound fracture or they are unconscious. Cut Cut Clothes Off.

#2 VOLUME... You need more than little wipes of alcohol, and iodine.

#3 Real Stuff... TOURNIQUET. The #1 tool in a real bleeding emergency. I use a tractor and a bush hog. What are the chances of me ripping my arm off or chopping my foot in half? Small. What are the chances of me bleeding out if I do... a gauze bandage isn't going to do it. Military training = Tournaquet. A person can bleed out pretty quickly. I keep a tourniquet and an air horn can on my tractor because I will probably need to self-treat and if I can't move I'll need to get my wife's attention in the house.

SUTURES... The most common injury is a deep cut. ... What do they do in the ER? LOTS OF CLEANING. I use a can of pressurized saline and a bottle of non-pressurized saline. Clean, Clean, Clean. Then CLOSE IT UP. It's not rocket science.

When I was a kid I made a major cut on my foot... my mom... the nurse... stuck it under running water in the tub for 3 minutes while she got what she needed to take me to the hospital... CLEAN IT OUT.

Sutures require some practice. To make it easier I just use staples. You might get away without using Lidocaine. LIDOCAINE. . it's good if you have it. Can you screw something up? I dunno. But if there's no medical care and you have a hunk of metal stuck in you that requires a little help with a scalpel to get out you're not going to care... a little lidocaine and a syringe is a good thing to have around. How did I get mine? $40 to a nurse I know. hush hush.

#4 Diagnostic Equipment ... that you can use. Look at what they use in an ER... Blood ox monitor goes on your finger. They sell them at Walmart... not cheap. Automatic blood pressure cuff. Can you take blood pressure with a stethoscope and a manual cuff? Me either! The great thing about these is that they can tell you that you ARE NOT DYING. If your blood oxygen is OK and your blood pressure is OK then that's a comfort. Other stuff... pen light (keep the batteries separate)... Ear scope (it has a name). It makes it easy to look for blood in the ears from head trauma or look for inflamation from an ear infection, etc.

I keep blood stop on hand as well. Good for bleeds that need help to stop.









Overdose? Charcoal for ingesting to cancel out the drugs.. Diabetic - Instant glucose...









Do you need all this stuff? I dunno. I used to keep Saline IV bags and IV starter kits. Then I realized I REALLY Not qualified to do that. So I got rid of them. What are you willing to do? What you able to do? If you are willing and able then you NEED the stuff to do it.

Medicines - keep em, get more, Antibiotics are great. They have saved my ass many times. Anti-nausea meds are also great. Vomiting is a major problem that can be life threatening... or at least can keep someone from not keeping down the anti-biotics. I have lots of different types of that medication. There are others.

Splints, wraps, a "surgery kit", and the basic stuff, eye wash, Visine.

The Special Forces Medical Book is the best book for your med kit. It breaks things down by symptom, gives how to diagnose and gives different treatment options based on what's available. I thought I had one in my kit. It has drifted away. I need to find it or buy another one. The internet may not be available.

I also have a major trauma bag. This is a big bag of all my extra stuff. Lots of big bandages, wraps and whatnot... now that I think about it... that's where MY SPECIAL FORCES MEDICAL BOOK IS... .


----------



## Steve40th

tonybluegoat said:


> View attachment 82549
> 
> 
> View attachment 82551
> 
> 
> This is Pu-erh tea. It comes in a puck, about 350 grams which is roughly the same as what's claimed to come in a 48 count Lipton Family size tea bags box. Why is tea important? Because boiled water tastes flat. Adding something to boiled water makes it taste better. If there is no public services for water then water eventually will need to be boiled. You could, perhaps, store Lipton tea bags in mylar with an oxygen absorber. I haven't tried it. I don't know how long Lipton tea can store.
> 
> I do know how long Pu-erh tea can store... Over the first 50 years the tea will get better with age. Over second 50 years the tea will slowly lose it's essential elements. Pu-erh is fermented tea pucks. They have existed for thousands of years. It's a green tea that you can use like any other tea. Break some off... Steep it.
> 
> View attachment 82553
> 
> 
> The trade-off is cost. A 48 count of Lipton family size tea bags costs $4... that's 12 oz or 360 grams of tea. A 365 gram puck of Pu-erh tea on Amazon will run about $19. So, it's 5x the price. But it will last 50x as long.
> 
> Assuming Lipton tea can store for at least a year and you rotate your stock then it's feasible to just use the cheaper Lipton. I use 2 tea bags per pitcher of tea. In a pinch I could probably use just 1. If I split the difference then a box of tea will last a month. So I would need to store 12 boxes of 48 count Lipton Family tea bags x $4 per box = $48 for a year's supply of tea. I would probably go ahead and open the boxes and store 3 boxes of loose bags in a mylar bag with an oxygen absorber. Then use a tupperware container to store when using. 4 Mylar gallon bags would probably do it.
> 
> Storing Pu-erh tea is simple. Just store it someplace dry with a stable temp... but not in the bathroom or the kitchen. It prefers stable humidity and can absorb environmental smells. (so don't store it in the cabinet over the stove... a hall closet is better.)
> 
> Assuming the same yield as Lipton out of Pu-erh and the cost is 12 x $20 = $240 for truly long term storage tea. If I was going to make buckets for LTS and only go into them in a true LTS emergency then I would spend the extra on Pu-erh tea. Since I like prepping I'll do a combination. 6-9 Pu-erh tea pucks in my long term storage buckets ($120 - $180) and 3-6 months of Lipton tea rotated through my extended use pantry ( $12-$24).
> 
> The only way to know is to test. I like the taste of Pu-erh a lot. Let's see what it yeilds when I use an entire puck over a period of time. Will it last a week, a month, or longer?
> 
> Iced Pu-erh tea.
> 
> View attachment 82557


How long do you steep?


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## tonybluegoat

ilmostrog said:


> Good stuff. Keep it coming.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Here's a fun one... It's a GRAB AND GO FIGHTING BAG. I'm not into the whole "shoot the zombies" aspect of prepping. But, if there is a "Shoot and Move" emergency then you need to be able to actually SHOOT AND MOVE. Next to my guns is my "Gun Fighting bag" I can sling it over a shoulder. It has extra ammo for all my "fighting" guns. AR magazines, 12 guage, .45 ACP. But it as more than that. It has knife, tools, gun cleaning kit, water, some emergency survival rations, gun fighting first aid kit (blood stopper, tourniquet, and like that), basic shelter, rope, etc. in case I need to stay in the woods for a day or two.. fire starter, tactical flashlight and the like.

View attachment 82579


WHY?

Because most people don't think in an emergency. If you have to get 5 things from 5 places then you won't. How hard it is to grab the gun you thought was loaded, only to realize you unloaded it because you took it to the gunsmith or range and put it away in a hurry. In an rapid emergency you have time to grab ONE BAG and go. Everything you need for THAT EXACT emergency should be in that bag.

If there's trouble on my property I want to be able to move to with whatever gun I need and the stuff I need to make it operate for more than 5 minutes. There are scenario's where I want to head OUT THE BACK DOOR as trouble come crashing in the FRONT DOOR. My guns and go bag are by the back door. If overwhelming force in driving up to the front of the house then I'm headed out the back with my family. I can fight better from outside anyway. I know the terrain. I have a Ghillie Suit and other preps in the woods on my property. It's a hell of a lot easier to get into my house by surprise than it will be to get out.

Hence the "Fighting Go Bag!"

Imagination is fun. It's very dusty.


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## tonybluegoat

I use a french press (for coffee) and I steep more than a pint of water for 5-10 minutes... generally until I think "Oh shit! the tea!" Then I strain and pour the tea out and pour the rest of kettle of water into the french press for a 2nd steeping. I let that sit for 20 minutes to "whenever I think about it" sometimes a couple hours. Then I add that to the previous batch.. Add sugar and put it in the refrigerator. Trial and error and your mileage may vary.


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## tonybluegoat

tonybluegoat said:


> I'm here to learn too!
> 
> What I learned from self-installing and using 3,500 watts of solar panels for 5 years.
> 
> View attachment 82561
> 
> 
> First, if you're going to install solar you shouldn't plan on moving. They are both expensive and permanent. I'm never going to move off my land, so it made sense to me.
> 
> Second, it's no magic bullet. My 3,500 watts of solar cost about $4,000 to install and save me about $30 per month on my electricity bill.
> 
> Third, it's a great thing to do generally IF you willing to change how you use electricity. Before installing my solar array I went through how I use electricity and made drastic changes. In doing so I cut my electricity use in half... without using solar. (from about 2,000 kwh to less than 1,000 kwh)... The solar adds an additional 300 kwh per month in savings.
> 
> This is GRID-TIED solar with an EMERGENCY BLACKOUT BACKUP CIRCUIT. I don't use batteries. Batteries are very expensive and generally have to be replaced every 7 years. They are a non-starter for most home installations. Most grid tie solar setups DO NOT WORK in a blackout. The system has automatic shutoffs that render the power from the solar panels as useless. I use a Sunnyboy TL-US inverter. It's the only one I know of that has a work-around to the blackout issue. Other inverters might do it as well, but most don't. So check.
> 
> View attachment 82563
> 
> 
> View attachment 82565
> 
> 
> The Sunnyboy inverter has a separate circuit that you can tie into that redirects the solar power to a switched plug that is not connected to your housing wiring. It is a stand alone circuit. In my case I have a 3,000 watt inverter that will send power to a 1,500 watt bypass circuit in case of a blackout. That's very useful power. I have run my electronics and fans off that circuit during a blackout. I doubt it would run a refrigerator or a window AC unit because of their "surge watts."
> 
> During the Northeastern storm Sandy that had power out for a long period of time there were "cell phone zombies" wandering the streets looking for somewhere to plug in their cell phone chargers. It is possible that infrastructure like cell phones, cable TV or DirecTV and Internet providers are working and all you need to access it is a little power. That's what this circuit is for. Plus obviously fans and whatnot. It would be no good for Security lights... because it only works when the sun is up and the solar panels are collecting sunlight.
> 
> It could, however, be used to charge a car battery or some other power bank during the day that could then be used for night time lighting.
> 
> HOW HARD IS IT TO INSTALL?
> 
> It depends on how well you can follow directions. Most books and installers will try to scare you off self-installation. Just don't be an idiot and use safety procedures. My solar array puts out over 400 volts DC at about 8 watts. That's a fatal dose of electricity. I use breakers on both ends of my wiring, I installed on a very cloudy day, and I used basic common sense. Some would use rubber gloves.
> 
> What does it costs? If I were to build the same thing now it would cost about $3,200. I get the panels (new) off Craigslist... these are discontinued models, but they work just fine. I would get the Sunnyboy from ebay (new) but make sure it's the kind that has a bypass. Why not get it from a distributor and have the warranty? Because if you self-install it will probably void the warranty. The manufacturer has great customer support via phone. I used them when I installed.
> 
> My prep for an electrical outage that lasts a long time DOES NOT include any refrigerators or air conditioners. Why? Because they are extremely expensive (from an infrastructure point) to run. The biggest mistake most prepper make is to assume they can live post SHTF the same as pre-SHTF.
> 
> I do have a small generator for nightime power outage use. Why is it small? Because it's the most fuel efficient. I have a 4000 watt unit that goes through 5 gallons of gas in 10 hours. That means I would run through 150 gallons of gas in a month using it just at night. Or I have a 800 watt "earthquake" model that uses 2 gallons of gas per 10 hours. The same 150 gallons of gas would last 2.5 months using this generator. Most people do not have a way to store large amounts of gasoline. I store between 150 and 250 gallons because I live on a farm and have a fuel storage tank for gasoline, plus another fuel storage tank for diesel, plus another fuel storage take for propane. The benefits of already living in non-incorporated land. People who live in a home owner's association have much higher restrictions on what they do, over just city ordinances. So, if a generator is in your plans... remember gas... test the generator regularly... do simulated blackout to make sure you have all the required extension cords and can execute a plan. The most likely time you will be trying to fuel up and start your generator is in the middle of the night in the worst rainstorm of your life. IN PITCH BLACK. That's the case every time I've had to use mine.
> 
> By the way 5 months out of the year I can get my electricity bill below $35. In the heat of the summer I cannot - TEXAS. But I still dropped my summer use drastically by dumping central AC for individual window units (a poor man's "mini-split zoned" ac system) I do not use electric heat.
> 
> Here's an example of an electricity bill with Solar.
> 
> View attachment 82567
> 
> 
> You'll notice the following. First, I only used about 750 kwh of electricity. Second I sold back about 150 kwh "GME Renewable Rewards Credits".... This particular month I probably generated about 450 kWh's. I directly used about 300 (meaning I was only billed for 750 kWh's but I used 1,050) and I sold 150 kWh's back to get a credit of $11. My final bill was $78. I use AC from April - October. In November - March I don't and the bill is about half that much.


I posted some pics but the administrator seems to have a stick up his ass.... so you can imagine I guess. These idiots think I'm trying to trick people into buying a certain brand inverter... YES!!! I AM A SECRET INVERTER SALESMAN! YOU FOUND ME OUT!!! (idiots)


----------



## ilmostrog

tonybluegoat said:


> Here's a fun one... It's a GRAB AND GO FIGHTING BAG. I'm not into the whole "shoot the zombies" aspect of prepping. But, if there is a "Shoot and Move" emergency then you need to be able to actually SHOOT AND MOVE. Next to my guns is my "Gun Fighting bag" I can sling it over a shoulder. It has extra ammo for all my "fighting" guns. AR magazines, 12 guage, .45 ACP. But it as more than that. It has knife, tools, gun cleaning kit, water, some emergency survival rations, gun fighting first aid kit (blood stopper, tourniquet, and like that), basic shelter, rope, etc. in case I need to stay in the woods for a day or two.. fire starter, tactical flashlight and the like.
> 
> View attachment 82579
> 
> 
> WHY?
> 
> Because most people don't think in an emergency. If you have to get 5 things from 5 places then you won't. How hard it is to grab the gun you thought was loaded, only to realize you unloaded it because you took it to the gunsmith or range and put it away in a hurry. In an rapid emergency you have time to grab ONE BAG and go. Everything you need for THAT EXACT emergency should be in that bag.
> 
> If there's trouble on my property I want to be able to move to with whatever gun I need and the stuff I need to make it operate for more than 5 minutes. There are scenario's where I want to head OUT THE BACK DOOR as trouble come crashing in the FRONT DOOR. My guns and go bag are by the back door. If overwhelming force in driving up to the front of the house then I'm headed out the back with my family. I can fight better from outside anyway. I know the terrain. I have a Ghillie Suit and other preps in the woods on my property. It's a hell of a lot easier to get into my house by surprise than it will be to get out.
> 
> Hence the "Fighting Go Bag!"
> 
> Imagination is fun. It's very dusty.


I like it. I have thought about something like this on a number of occasions but then I think "when am I ever really going to need this?" And then I feel silly like I am playing internet commando and forget about it. But it occurs to me I could ask the same question about concealed carry or prepping in general. The point is having thought through what might happen some day and have a plan. Now I need to start thinking through my gun bag. Fun.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tonybluegoat

ilmostrog said:


> I like it. I have thought about something like this on a number of occasions but then I think "when am I ever really going to need this?" And then I feel silly like I am playing internet commando and forget about it. But it occurs to me I could ask the same question about concealed carry or prepping in general. The point is having thought through what might happen some day and have a plan. Now I need to start thinking through my gun bag. Fun.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And the thing is... it's just a bag... it's not really an expense. Instead of keeping extra ammo "there" you keep it "in the bag." Put a bottle of water "in the bag." What difference does it make where something is kept? If you don't need it.. it makes NO DIFFERENCE. If you DO need it then it makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE.


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## tonybluegoat

"lose" your driver's license.

In modern America the most important document you own is your driver's license. Without it you can't do much. With it you can do everything. Do you have a valid Passport? If so then you can use it at the bank when you lose your wallet... IF YOU DON'T then you are screwed. 

So here's the basic scenario. You lose your wallet. Now here's a exercise... go to the bank and get money. You need money. You need gas, food, to pay your bills. You can't get money without a debit card (it was in your wallet and they only let you have ONE AT A TIME) OR YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE. Guess what... if you report that you lost your driver's license and take what you need to the DMV they will give you another one. now you have TWO. Let's pretend for a moment that the 2nd one makes the first one less valid TO THE POLICE. That's fine.. .don't use the first one "with the police" use it at the bank. 

I always have two VALID whatever form of ID... I have two birth certificates... I just sent off for a 2nd one. I have two social security cards... same thing. I have two driver's licenses. When I was a student I kept two student ID cards. When I was in the Army I had two military ID's. The funny thing is that the Army sucks at verification but an Army ID is VERY VALID. So when I got to my first duty station (Oklahoma) at age 19 I "lost my military ID" and filled out a form for a new one. Ooops, I mis-wrote my birth year! Now I'm 21!! When I turned 21 I "lost my ID" again and changed my birth year back. I went form being 23 to 21 in 5 minutes. It might cost a few bucks. Big deal. I keep my ID's in two separate places... completely separate. Not in my house. Because If my house burns down then my wallet burns down AND MY BACKUP burns down. 

It's the simplest prep, the most useful prep and the cheapest prep. But "preppers" don't do it.

ALONG THE SAME LINE - KEEP CASH IN YOUR CAR

Stash $40 in your car somewhere and leave it. Here's the scenario. You're on a trip. You stop and fill up with gas, you go inside and get something to eat... Then you head back down the road. 300 miles later you stop for gas again... ooops you left your wallet at the restaurant. Now you don't have the gas to need TO GET BACK and you don't have gas you need TO GET HOME. You're screwed.

This prep costs nothing. You still have the $40 it's just in a different place. Use your wife's money... call it "garage sale cash" so if she finds a deal at a garage sale she'll have some cash to pay for it.

So simple it's stupid


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## NotTooProudToHide

I don't plan on leaving unless staying home is less dangerous than leaving or if the house gets burned/blown/knocked down by a natural disaster. In either case its going to be a temporary thing until things cool off enough to return home or I collect the insurance check.


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## WhatTheHeck

To clarify: My BOL is also my home. 

To me, it just made sense from both a economic and social stand point to spend the money and establish myself as a know member in the community. 

Do the most with what you have.


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## Jammer Six

We're leaving the disaster zone, however big it is. We'll probably stay in the U.S., because no disaster has ever covered the entire U.S., but we can do London if we need to.

We'll be back when all the higglety-pigglety stuff is under control.


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## tonybluegoat

WhatTheHeck said:


> To clarify: My BOL is also my home.
> 
> To me, it just made sense from both a economic and social stand point to spend the money and establish myself as a know member in the community.
> 
> Do the most with what you have.


I think that's the smartest thing if it's livable. I was once in a "highrise" apartment building when the electricity went out. I put highrise in quotes because it probably was less than 12 stories high. It got very hot very quickly. Zero cross ventilation in the apartment. Walking up and down 8 flights in dark stairwells was eerie. And this was during the day. I can't imagine trying to bug-in someplace like that.

The best docu-drama on this is PBS's "American Blackout" I'll post a link. It might get blasted by the admins. If you haven't seen it, it's a must watch. You can find it on youtube. Just search for "American Blackout PBS"


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## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> I posted some pics but the administrator seems to have a stick up his ass.... so you can imagine I guess. These idiots think I'm trying to trick people into buying a certain brand inverter... YES!!! I AM A SECRET INVERTER SALESMAN! YOU FOUND ME OUT!!! (idiots)


What post number do you feel was edited? At the bottom of the thread did it say, "edited by So-And-So?"

Try calling us idiots one more time and you can strike a trot.


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## Jammer Six

Man...

Time to start following the rules, tony. I hope you give in, you actually seem to believe in prepping, which is better than okey. Denton will help you, if you let him.


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## tonybluegoat

Denton said:


> What post number do you feel was edited? At the bottom of the thread did it say, "edited by So-And-So?"
> 
> Try calling us idiots one more time and you can strike a trot.


pic in post 96 97 99. If you didn't can them then fine. I'm not trying to sell anything or pull people off your forum. It's your rifle range you can run it however you want.

Thanks, Tony


----------



## azrancher

tonybluegoat said:


> pic in post 96 97 99. If you didn't can them then fine. I'm not trying to sell anything or pull people off your forum.
> Thanks, Tony


Tony, there is possibly a problem, please report it as a problem in the future so we can help out, that stick up my rear-end is very uncomfortable, and I get cranky when it wiggles around.

*Rancher*


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## inceptor

tonybluegoat said:


> pic in post 96 97 99. If you didn't can them then fine. I'm not trying to sell anything or pull people off your forum. It's your rifle range you can run it however you want.
> 
> Thanks, Tony


I hate to tell you but you're not the only person this happened to. Try reporting it first.


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## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> pic in post 96 97 99. If you didn't can them then fine. I'm not trying to sell anything or pull people off your forum. It's your rifle range you can run it however you want.
> 
> Thanks, Tony


That was what we idiots call a glitch. As you've already been told, report a glitch.

We know whose rifle range this is and we don't need you to tell us. Did it cross your mind to apologize for your insults? You can even do it without making a book out of it. After all, we idiots don't have the attention span to read dozens of lines that can be summed up in a simple, "Sorry about the insults. I thought you guys are not as professional as you really are."
Idiots have feelings, too.


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## Jammer Six

Uhm. You guys aren't going to hug, are you?


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## Denton

Jammer Six said:


> Uhm. You guys aren't going to hug, are you?


Nah, I don't expect that. Not unless @Sasquatch is up for it.


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## inceptor

Denton said:


> That was what we idiots call a glitch. As you've already been told, report a glitch.
> 
> We know whose rifle range this is and we don't need you to tell us. Did it cross your mind to apologize for your insults? You can even do it without making a book out of it. After all, we idiots don't have the attention span to read dozens of lines that can be summed up in a simple, "Sorry about the insults. I thought you guys are not as professional as you really are."
> *Idiots have feelings, too.*


Need a tissue?


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## Jammer Six

Well, if we're going to do some group-hug thing, can we take a short break first?


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## Denton

inceptor said:


> Need a tissue?


I might.


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## inceptor

Denton said:


> I might.


Well let me know. We get them at Costco by the case so I have plenty.


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## Sasquatch

Denton said:


> Nah, I don't expect that. Not unless @Sasquatch is up for it.


That's a big negatory. I know where you've been.


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## inceptor

Sasquatch said:


> That's a big negatory. I know where you've been.


TMI Sas, TMI


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## Jammer Six

What if he washed his hands really good?


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## tonybluegoat

Denton said:


> That was what we idiots call a glitch. As you've already been told, report a glitch.
> 
> We know whose rifle range this is and we don't need you to tell us. Did it cross your mind to apologize for your insults? You can even do it without making a book out of it. After all, we idiots don't have the attention span to read dozens of lines that can be summed up in a simple, "Sorry about the insults. I thought you guys are not as professional as you really are."
> Idiots have feelings, too.


My mistake. Sorry. You guys do an excellent job. Next time I won't assume the worst.


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## Denton

tonybluegoat said:


> My mistake. Sorry. You guys do an excellent job. Next time I won't assume the worst.
> View attachment 82597


Thanks.

Don't assume the worst with us. On the other hand, never assume we don't make mistakes. Except Cricket. She makes none.


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## Annie

inceptor said:


> Well let me know. We get them at Costco by the case so I have plenty.


Me too, Costco big box. It's the best price for the money I think.


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## tonybluegoat

Chiefster23 said:


> OK, Mr. Keyboard commando.
> I actually did purchase the required inverter to run the window air conditioner. It works. I also bought a larger charge controller and additional solar panels. I have sucessfully run the AC, fridge, and freezer. (Not all at the same time). My solar set up is in daily use. I test run (under load) my generators periodically.
> 
> I have gardens, berry bushes, and fruit trees. I can, freeze, and dehydrate. I have adequate stores of food and meds and rotate (use) them. I have and use multiple means of cooking with fuel and spares stockpiled.
> 
> I have made and installed security improvements to my home and property.
> 
> If the grid went down tomorrow, I could survive quite nicely for months without any undue hardship.
> 
> Trust me. Although you think you are the only real prepper on this site........ you aren't!


Good! Thank god.


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