# 1/17/16 -Chinese market open in 1 hour



## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Its sunday at 7 pm and the chinese stock market opens in about an hour.... If it drops more then 3% and the US Market opens and drops more then 200 points........

I am cashing out some savings and buying silver and filling the empty spaces in my pantry....


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Who takes silver in place of cash purchases these days.

The US currency is relatively secure, not sure why you would put your savings into silver. The relatively strong performing US dollar ain't going to evaporate over night. While a prudent profolio will diversify into various things, putting everything into metals, especially silver seems a little nonsensical, kindly explain in more detail why you would convert your USD into silver?


USD is a very strongly performing global currency.

If you are worried about bank failures why not switch banks to a more secure credit union that has stable monetary policies on investments and the markets.

Things are way more difficult in Canada with a nosediving dollar that is under 70 cents now. Wealthy Canadians hopefully have limited their exposure by hedging and having savings in foreign currency such as USD, Euro and Swiss Francs. 

Even with the market dip I don't think we will see USD or Euro collapse as a result in the short term. On the contrary the USD has been performing very well, and while there is likely to be some turbulence, the plane should not be coming down over Iran entering the market again.


The only thing we should really be concerned with to bring on an economic collapse of the US banking system or dollar is if missiles start flying, and more particularly US foreign interests are the targets of those missiles, ex. Israel, Europe etc.. or the US itself, US shipping etc.. Frankly the stuff weighing in on the global market right now is going to effect Eurasia the most, and likewise countries like Venezuela and Canada who have oil market exposures. It isn't so much about the loss of sales but the loss of defaulting companies who in case of Canadian Oil Sands, is backed heavily by US banking loans, which are going into default, meaning that the mortgages are collectable in default.

None the less I am sort of shocked you would go all in for a 5-10% drop in the markets. Its really not a full on crash even if China shuts down early again, in reality China shouldn't even be open for a few days at all. None the less there may be a dip but it is just part of a general downward bearish trend that has emerged with the oil price depression. Markets are saturated and foreign capital is tight due to major countries being bearish due to oil depression. You just need to trace the capital, but I havn't seen anything indicating a US collapse at all, if you know something I don't do share.


From what I see the US is rock hard right now.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I know I am


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Will2 said:


> None the less I am sort of shocked you would go all in for a 5-10% drop in the markets.


If you reread my post I said I will cash in SOME savings... you use the term "all in" not me...

and frankly it is not a 5-10% drop.... it might be 5-10% on the day but over the last week...

I feel sort of foolish that I (unlike some others) waited this long to dislike you...


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## Hemi45 (May 5, 2014)

Are US markets open on MLK Day?


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Not open


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

it is now half way through Jan. -I said I would remind you.
Sep. BS didn't happen neither did the October crap.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Medic33 said:


> it is now half way through Jan. -I said I would remind you.
> Sep. BS didn't happen neither did the October crap.


How Dare you point out our beloved M&M's misstatements. Can't you see he's only trying to bring us to our senses? Why won't you people listen to him? Are you all fools or what?

M&M I believe everything you say. You're the only one talking any sense on this forum.

May the almighty have mercy on the rest of your worthless hides.

Ok now one more toke on this great green vegetable matter and we'll see what other havoc we both can cause


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Will2 said:


> Who takes silver in place of cash purchases these days.
> 
> The US currency is relatively secure


Because



Will2 said:


> Canadian Oil Sands, is backed heavily by US banking loans, which are going into default


Therefore



Will2 said:


> From what I see the US is rock hard right now.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> If you reread my post I said I will cash in SOME savings... you use the term "all in" not me...
> 
> and frankly it is not a 5-10% drop.... it might be 5-10% on the day but over the last week...
> 
> I feel sort of foolish that I (unlike some others) waited this long to dislike you...


Oh yeah that is right I misread that, I assumed you were paniking. Good catch. There.

For some reason I was expecting a panik spur instead of just extra measures. IE dipping in a little.

Do you have a system for monetizing the silver to create more value on it than a GIC?

Do you expect a US currency crash? I think that they will eventually need to scale back but they still have a margin before the world currency controllers move to cap the dollars rise off.

I think it will be a good 6 months before Iranian supply doubles.

Stock markets and commodities have been taking hits for sure and are in a bear market now no doubt, but the market does need to correct itself, it doesn't only move one way. While there are definately some bubbles out there right now, the US itself seems to have good outlooks. If you were in the UK or China right now (Canada is getting a little sketchy on currency values too) I would be more concerned but the US is looking very strong. Are you seeing indicators that will effect the US, if so what?

Silver is fairly volatile, I am also currious how you plan to use the silver.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^^^^ Where do you guys get these people?


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Will2 said:


> ...Silver is fairly volatile, I am also currious how you plan to use the silver.


Silver is money. Has been for 2000 years. The Federal Reserve Note is debt, over printed and backed by faith alone. All paper currencies have eventually failed. All of them. Do the math.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> it is now half way through Jan. -I said I would remind you.
> Sep. BS didn't happen neither did the October crap.


If you will go back and review the posts about sept 2015.. you will see that I was clear that I thought something was going to happen but that I also said..as did several others that it could happen any time between sept 2015 and sept 2016...

in this thread I was saying that if certain things happened i was going to buy some Silver.. I was not advocating for a SHTF event, I was just saying what I was going to do...

remember, pointing to the mud on another persons shoes does not make you a faster runner.

and

on a forum where people prep for SHTF events... bringing up and discussing possible SHTF events is what we do... if you are bothered by that or do not like it.....You may be on the wrong page


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> Its sunday at 7 pm and the chinese stock market opens in about an hour.... If it drops more then 3% and the US Market opens and drops more then 200 points........
> 
> I am cashing out some savings and buying silver and filling the empty spaces in my pantry....


Not a bad idea collecting up silver at this price point...


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Maine-Marine said:


> ...pointing to the mud on another persons shoes does not make you a faster runner.


I like that! Can I quote you?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Will2 said:


> Who takes silver in place of cash purchases these days.
> 
> The US currency is relatively secure, not sure why you would put your savings into silver. The relatively strong performing US dollar ain't going to evaporate over night. While a prudent profolio will diversify into various things, putting everything into metals, especially silver seems a little nonsensical, kindly explain in more detail why you would convert your USD into silver?


You are missing the point entirely.

This is a good price point to buy precious metals... they go down, they go up, and silver right now is at a good step-in point price-wise, relative to recent value. It's at a low, and you buy low and sell HIGH. Not everything is about preparing for SHTF moments, some of us use PM as a part of our overall portfolio because it is moves differently in the market than stocks & bonds.

It's called diversification. MM's doing a smart thing, whether SHTF happens or no.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

well you changed the time line cause you started to doubt because at first it was sep XX or something then the week of sep XX then the between sep and oct then sep 2015 and oct 2016 
and pointing to the *mud on the other persons shoe *helps them* to look better *when* they cross the finish *line before you.
I do not dislike you MM just following up on what I said -you will have several more reminders -why cause YOU were so adamant about it. we all have bad feelings from time to time mostly they pertain to oneself and not the universe that revolves around them.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

telling someone something shitty is going to happen on xx,xx,xx date is not a discussion or a debate , it is a feeble attempt at prophecy. 
when people say the freaking sky is falling continuously eventually they may have one right but must be continuously reminded of all the ones they have wrong.
till they learn to be a tad more discrete about it.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

Real Old Man said:


> How Dare you point out our beloved M&M's misstatements. Can't you see he's only trying to bring us to our senses? Why won't you people listen to him? Are you all fools or what?
> 
> M&M I believe everything you say. You're the only one talking any sense on this forum.
> 
> ...


 You have gone " up in smoke " the both of you .


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> well you changed the time line cause you started to doubt because at first it was sep XX or something then the week of sep XX then the between sep and oct then sep 2015 and oct 2016
> and pointing to the *mud on the other persons shoe *helps them* to look better *when* they cross the finish *line before you.
> I do not dislike you MM just following up on what I said -you will have several more reminders -why cause YOU were so adamant about it. we all have bad feelings from time to time mostly they pertain to oneself and not the universe that revolves around them.


I went back and looked up my opening post about when I thought something it would happen and then when it did not happen... here ya go.... NOW what part of these make it seems like i was ADAMANT about the date or PUSHING it or



Maine-Marine said:


> I am not pushing dates... but I do think Sept 13/14th is going to see some sort of event. Some folks have said no dollar collapse on wall street because the Shmita ends on the 13th - a Sunday... but the jewish day goes from sundown to sundown.. So it runs through Monday the 14th . My goal is to have everything as done as possible by 1 Sept.. gas tanks full, propane full, food preps as done as possible, a winters worth of wood done, etc If nothing happens - life goes on and I am ready for the winter Again I am not saying this WILL happen - but I do think there are lots of signs/coincidences that have/are happen(ing)
> anybody else doing any extra stuff with this in mind


and the after nothing happened



Maine-Marine said:


> I have to say I was and am surprised... that there was no financial melt down or other event by 14 Sept sunset. I am not disappointed - I was/am relieved in fact. Now I have more time, because in my mind it is not IF but WHEN Of course I still feel this sense of anticipation... Sort of like when you are playing Janga
> There just seems to be so many BAD things lining up...debt, disaster, decay, fire, flood, and famine...
> View attachment 12888
> 
> So now my goal is to have 2 years of food before the end of this jubilee year, have solar solution for lights, and get some more silver but away


Now if you wish to be a richardyou can be - but i think to the average joe reading those two posts above I am not sure how they could think I was preaching Sept X as the END of the world... My post was basically that I was getting ready before that date and if if it happened or not, I would be more ready

Now if you wish to misquote me in order to make it easier for You to attack a position I was not holding then fine.. but at least be honest or reread the posts to clear your slanted memory of the


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> telling someone something shitty is going to happen on xx,xx,xx date is not a discussion or a debate , it is a feeble attempt at prophecy.
> when people say the freaking sky is falling continuously eventually they may have one right but must be continuously reminded of all the ones they have wrong.
> till they learn to be a tad more discrete about it.


did you notice the



Maine-Marine said:


> I am not pushing dates... but I do *think* Sept 13/14th is going to see* some sort of event.*


So I THINK there may be Some sort of event!!!!! ya that makes me look like a gosh darn end of the world fanatic.. lets ban me from ever discussing any possible future event ever again... heck boy, I bet they geared NATO up and had the planes on the runway waiting on * some sort of event.*

So you go ahead and make a mark on your calendar to remind me that I predicted * some sort of event.* and bring it up every time you have the opportunity... because living rent free in your head is well priceless


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> ...remember, pointing to the mud on another persons shoes does not make you a faster runner.


Unless the shoes belong to your older brother and the mud happens to be dog dookie and you point at him, call him a doofus and laugh!


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

that's one post main how freaking many did you have? and how many times 
you change your toon faster than a teenage girl changes shirts.
and I know I have two. LOL


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Slippy said:


> Unless the shoes belong to your older brother and the mud happens to be dog dookie and you point at him, call him a doofus and laugh!


If you need fast moving shoes, today is your lucky day! I just so happen to have own line of athletic shoes. I call them Uncle Buck's Rocket Shoes. Whether you are running from the fuzz or just running for office, these babies will get you there faster and looking stylish. They are not only lightweight and comfortable, they have also been fitted with the hardware that will allow you to use my Buck Bored's At Home Natural Gas Manufacturing System once it becomes commercially available. That's right people, you will be able to impress your friends and family with your jet shoes powered by Pabst Blue Ribbon and Vienna sausages!

Buck

1-800-SHOE-POO


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> did you notice the
> 
> So I THINK there may be Some sort of event!!!!! ya that makes me look like a gosh darn end of the world fanatic.. lets ban me from ever discussing any possible future event ever again... heck boy, I bet they geared NATO up and had the planes on the runway waiting on * some sort of event.*
> 
> So you go ahead and make a mark on your calendar to remind me that I predicted * some sort of event.* and bring it up every time you have the opportunity... because living rent free in your head is well priceless


My My My aren't we a little bit touchy today. Did we have a bad night or something?

Medic harping on your predictions was a tiny bit out of line - no one likes to be reminded of his or her failures , but You and your predictions and bible rants are all over the place. Preparing is not about any specific event cause last I looked none of us had a crystal ball.

Preparing is ensuring that should something occur that you'l have the tools and resources available to handle what ever comes along.

Most times our preparations here and in the past were all for naught. And for that we are especially grateful.

And we do watch and listen and keep our fingers on the pulse of the world to hopefully ensure that nothing slips by us.

But with all of your prophesying I'm almost expecting you to pass the plate and take up a collection.:spank::spank:


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> did you notice the
> 
> So I THINK there may be Some sort of event!!!!! ya that makes me look like a gosh darn end of the world fanatic.. lets ban me from ever discussing any possible future event ever again... heck boy, I bet they geared NATO up and had the planes on the runway waiting on * some sort of event.*
> 
> So you go ahead and make a mark on your calendar to remind me that I predicted * some sort of event.* and bring it up every time you have the opportunity... because living rent free in your head is well priceless


Didn't you just get thru telling us to sell all our stocks because of the word of the Royal Bankof Scotland?


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Medic33 said:


> that's one post main how freaking many did you have? and how many times
> you change your toon faster than a teenage girl changes shirts.
> and I know I have two. LOL


It was a topic of discussion here... and there were several people that also were looking at the Shmita...

It my posts offended you or you purchased extra food based on something i said or your feelings were hurt..I apologize... I hope however you realize that this is a PREPPER forum and we talk about things to prep for and in doing so future events will be discussed, hashed over, joked about, and talked about....

I am not sure why you are experiencing this amount of anger and bitterness over a post that happened 4 months ago... Again I apologize if you were offended... Not sure what else to say....


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Please play in to all of this . panic sell every stock you have. I am buying so looking for deals. I have been around a few years. Have seen this come and go many times. If you own good stocks and don't want to lose sit on them. If you have some cash look for some value and buy then sit on them. Investment is not a day to day thing , heck not even a year to year really. Investment is often a long slow boat ride not a drag race.
prepping is the same way we don't jump in and out based on head lines. we plot a course and follow it. The head lines really don't madder much then.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> Silver is money. Has been for 2000 years. The Federal Reserve Note is debt, over printed and backed by faith alone. All paper currencies have eventually failed. All of them. Do the math.


except for silver dollars, silver is a commodity not a money. Stores I know of don't trade in silver. From what I understand you would need to enlist some type of barter lawyer or work out private deals for all your purchases, that is why bank notes are used instead of goods for trade. It ain't very practical, frankly I have never seen anyone go into stores and use anything other than accepted currencies.

What stores are taking silver as an exchange unit?

I understand your nostalgia with silver but it frankly I think to most people sounds pretty crazy for you to think you will be able to go into a store and get a good exchange value using silver oz, particularly due to counterfit risk with metals and the fact that most people arn't metalurgists able to determine the autheniticity of metals that they are being offered, i.e. high risk trade = lots of lost value on exchange.

Frankly lots of common people have no use for silver either, those that do have a very limited need for it. 
I still think it is good if it is minted but the value comes from the security of the mint in what it is.

I think you may be out of touch if you think you can use silver like money. Frankly the value of commodities like gold and silver drop to basement prices in crisis look at what happened in Yugoslavia to get an idea of value of commodities within a conflict zone.

You need to research this stuff. It is far better to have goods you need in crisis than materials like gold and silver for exchange, they don't hold value in crisis. If you have a market sure they are going to spike like gold has been in its bull market mode recently, however without the market in event of a market failure your commodities will be worth a fraction of their value. You will get only what the hawker gives you.

I can understand doing this as portfolio management but if it is for a market crash no, I wouldn't be involved in any commodities that are not needed by people in crisis, and definately not for anything that is volatile that is high risk.

Just bear in mind people used wooden boats to sail the ocean for thousands of years too, that isn't as common these days.

Going in big on a volatile commodity is risky you need to recognize that. If you ignore all the facts and think silver is going to detach from the value of the USD then I think you are not being reasonable. While I do think silver is good for holding value you arn't going to do much better or much worse than USD value, and if you are buying on an exchange where you have a dollar or 2 per oz markup you probably will loose on the exchange. Having a little i.e. 1% or less of your portfolio in silver isn't a bad deal but going in big on silver doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd say hold out on the buyin until you think oil has bottomed out, then buy your silver, I think around the bottom of oil is when you are going to see the USD scale back, with the rise in oil you will see a lowering of the USD, that is just how the balance works. Silver is also tied in but I think you will see the value go up most after the USD starts coming down in value for obvious reasons. Buying in for an economic collapse is imo nonsensical in the short term though, beyond having a little, I'd be more concerned with having equipment I need in event of crisis than having large amounts of silver, silver won't do you any good to have in large amounts. I think we are atleast a good 6 months away for oil bottoming out I think it has room to drop to $20 a barrel over the next 6 months or so.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Will2 said:


> except for silver dollars, silver is a commodity not a money. Stores I know of don't trade in silver. From what I understand you would need to enlist some type of barter lawyer or work out private deals for all your purchases, that is why bank notes are used instead of goods for trade. It ain't very practical, frankly I have never seen anyone go into stores and use anything other than accepted currencies.
> 
> What stores are taking silver as an exchange unit?
> 
> ...


I am not planning on using it tomorrow... I will hold it until either A - it goes up in value and I sel itor B the dollar crashes, some time has passed and silver is again used as non fiat currency


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> I am not planning on using it tomorrow... I will hold it until either A - it goes up in value and I sel itor B the dollar crashes, some time has passed and silver is again used as non fiat currency


What makes you think silver is going to be used as fiat? Aside from very large deals I can't see how that would happen as banks don't do deposits in silver nor do they offer interest on silver. It has no benefit as a currency. It weighs a hell of a lot more for transport. It just isn't reasonable to think silver will be used for 10$ notes, the next fiat is electronic credit imo, not silver. We are entering the carbon age, not the silver age. You money, your vision though.

Chance are you will eventually be able to blip up but offset for inflation and interest on something like a GIC within the next few years I would be suprised if you see any gains. However anything is possible, and its your money so whatever.

I think the dollar will cap at about the same time as oil bottoms but I think that the downward trend on the dollar which is probably a few months off atleast, will be slow going, not a crash. There is a lot of commercial inputs into US manufacturing going up and cheap energy on the longterm horizon. There are a lot of rosey pictures on the US economic outlook atleast until the US election kicks in. We should continue to see a slow recovery in 2016. I think the bottom will come out eventually as it always has before but I think we will see that coming out of Europe and Asia this time around, which ripple effects in the US. Canada on the other hand will likely have a rough 2016, especially if the TPP is passed.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Will2 said:


> What makes you think silver is going to be used as fiat?


I said NON-Fiat not fiat


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Maine-Marine said:


> I said NON-Fiat not fiat


you do realize that non-fiat exchange is not the standard anywhere in the world, and is generally maybe used only on the blackmarket.

why do you think that everyone would abandon their national currency systems and suddently start exchanging in goods they have no use for?

I can understand food as a currency in famine, or tools in destruction, but silver really doesn't do anything where you would need large amounts of it. If it ain't fiat really why have it?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I truly believe that someone ^^^^ has a goal of proving to everyone that Slippy is right.


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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

^^^^^^^ I knew I remembered this guy from somewhere!! It has finally dawned on me, he is a childhood favorite.... Will, from Lost in Space!!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Will2 said:


> you do realize that non-fiat exchange is not the standard anywhere in the world, and is generally maybe used only on the blackmarket.
> 
> why do you think that everyone would abandon their national currency systems and suddently start exchanging in goods they have no use for?
> 
> I can understand food as a currency in famine, or tools in destruction, but silver really doesn't do anything where you would need large amounts of it. If it ain't fiat really why have it?


Currency. The medium of exchange that is current.

Currencies come and go; that is why they are fiat. The German Marks I have in a salad dressing bottle in a closet are testaments to that. Food? Food is not a currency, but an item that can be used for barter.

Silver and gold are money and have been understood as being such for thousands of years. Today, we live in a world of currencies but that might not always be the case and even today both solver and gold can buy currencies of preference.

Some might say your ignorance is overwhelming, but I see you as being one who will not be driving up the prices for what you think are a waste, and I thank you for that.


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Will2 said:


> except for silver dollars, silver is a commodity not a money. Stores I know of don't trade in silver. From what I understand you would need to enlist some type of barter lawyer or work out private deals for all your purchases, that is why bank notes are used instead of goods for trade. It ain't very practical, frankly I have never seen anyone go into stores and use anything other than accepted currencies.
> 
> What stores are taking silver as an exchange unit?
> 
> ...


Hi, Will2. I'll use your technique of answering in detail:

_Will2: "Except for silver dollars, silver is a commodity not a money...frankly I have never seen anyone go into stores and use anything other than accepted currencies."_

Money is what people say it is. I'm selling a shotgun; I will happily accept US currency or 1 ounce Silver Eagles in exchange.

_Will2: "...I think to most people sounds pretty crazy for you to think you will be able to go into a store and get a good exchange value using silver oz..."_

I can go to the store tomorrow and get a very fair price for my silver, it's called a coin store. Banks in most of the world will buy gold coins.

_Will2: "...Frankly the value of commodities like gold and silver drop to basement prices in crisis look at what happened in Yugoslavia to get an idea of value of commodities within a conflict zone..."_

Silver, and gold, are for carrying your wealth THROUGH the conflict to the other side, when you can trade it for the new currency. If you have held currency through the devaluation, you are broke.

_Will2: "You need to research this stuff. It is far better to have goods you need in crisis than materials like gold and silver for exchange...
_
I have researched it. I've traded silver for years; it's been my most profitable investment. And why must it be an either/or choice. Hold goods AND silver. 
_
Will2: "I can understand doing this as portfolio management but if it is for a market crash no..."
_
Exactly!


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

If it seems I have a short temper, that isn't quite the truth. I have little patience for those who don't bother to learn the difference between, commodities, perishables, currencies and money.

I also believe this place is the target of forum stalking.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Denton said:


> Currency. The medium of exchange that is current.
> 
> Food? Food is not a currency, but an item that can be used for barter.


It actually has been used as a unit of exchange both historically as well as in current contexts. Usually currency is about ease of transport and peoples willingness to accept it.



> Silver and gold are money


 They are more recognized as a commodity in financial circles. Although you can get both gold and silver coin, it isn't used very often at all on daily commercial exchanges. If you do know places that plan to accept bullion or rolls it would be great to share these, are there places in urban areas that have commercial goods and plan to accept bullion and rolls during emergencies? If these arn't established I still think that value will be much lower than people are buying for. I would like to here how you think it will work though. But where exactly is gold and silver being used as money by everyday people. While reserves are used by nations and occassionally a few corporations, I am going to need to see more info on how gold particularly is being used by everyday people as money outside of holding it as a commodity for the stock markets. I do know there are hauk shops/pawners out there but I wouldn't expect to get a very good value so as to make it more useful than cash or goods. More detail is requested.



> Today, we live in a world of currencies but that might not always be the case and even today both solver and gold can buy currencies of preference.


 Sure the world economic system could collapse in a global calamity but realistically I would not be even thinking about planning a financial portfolio or units of exchange in that type of scenario, things like gold and silver will hold almost no value in any scenario where the world economic system is so damaged that a currency for exchange no longer exists. You can laugh I know that it is a go to for bears, but I have studied various catastrophy situations and wars and for the people with it, it has next to no value, people get it at very low value, only people outside the danger zones keep value while those in it pay superinfalted prices where the value of gold becomes a fraction of what it is on the market. Oddly not applicable to the US often where currencies collapse global currencies, particularly USD is used for exchange. I don't see how gold would be practical at all in any scenario where the USD ceased to be a usable currency. It is really unthinkable. It is like people suddently ceasing to speak English even though they know the words. It does have extrenal inputs but currency is largely regulated by those who hold it and use it as a medium of exchange. This is not unlike people using English as a medium of communication because it facilitates communication much like currency facilitates exchange and productivity.



> Some might say your ignorance is overwhelming, but I see you as being one who will not be driving up the prices for what you think are a waste, and I thank you for that.


I have no plans to buy any commodity I would rather buy raw materials used for goods. I have confidence in the global banking system not to collapse overnight. I think that we are good for a few months atleast. Bear in mind I called the collapse of oil and the canadian dollar months and months previously. Looking at the situation, I see no doom and gloom. I do think perhaps some people might be motivated by politics on an election year, but no, I think the US economic system is quite secure and will be for the next few months if nothing extreme happens. While gold is strong in a bear market and we are seeing gold as bull and all else in bear, the US market is still healthy however it ain't business as usual. We are seeing the biggest corps in the US facing competition from other players. You need to expect if there is a market contraction that that is coming from somewhere and we are seeing it being trimmed off the top. I don't think the top being scaled back is indicative of a collapse, on the contrary I think it makes for a healthier system.

Realistically we can see currencies depreciate or inflate, you know we arn't seeing hyperinflation to the point of the duetchmark so I think we arn't at that level at this point. I don't think we will be over the winter. I don't think my views are radical on the contrary I view people predicting a global market collapse this week as radical views. I think there is no doubt there are depressed markets for good reason, and I think the downward trend is not over, but that doesn't mean collapse of the market and the market always recovers. It is just a question of who grows and who dies.

We can understand thees and thous but they seem peculiar, much like using dated finacial practices. Hopeully you get the analogy. While in consolation what works for you works for you. I don't have much faith in systems that have been replaced to be resumed in event of failure of the current system.

The only system that holds true or will hold true will be marxism. idea of superficial values of stones and beads will only be usable in an established system. If we have that we will have currency and technology facilitates safer currencies than metals.

If it doesn't have a use for people it doesn't have a use.


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Will2 said:


> It actually has been used as a unit of exchange both historically as well as in current contexts. Usually currency is about ease of transport and peoples willingness to accept it.
> 
> They are more recognized as a commodity in financial circles. Although you can get both gold and silver coin, it isn't used very often at all on daily commercial exchanges. If you do know places that plan to accept bullion or rolls it would be great to share these, are there places in urban areas that have commercial goods and plan to accept bullion and rolls during emergencies? If these arn't established I still think that value will be much lower than people are buying for. I would like to here how you think it will work though. But where exactly is gold and silver being used as money by everyday people. While reserves are used by nations and occassionally a few corporations, I am going to need to see more info on how gold particularly is being used by everyday people as money outside of holding it as a commodity for the stock markets. I do know there are hauk shops/pawners out there but I wouldn't expect to get a very good value so as to make it more useful than cash or goods. More detail is requested.
> 
> ...


So which is it? Earlier in this thread you were lamenting the fact that a lot of the Canadian Oil Sands loans were held by U.S. banks and those loans were going into default. If a large basket of loans are going into default that does not promote strength for the currency those loans were written in - I.E. the U.S. Dollar.

From reading the last 4 pages of drivel all I can gather is there is some kind of logic to the illogical in your world.


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## Medic33 (Mar 29, 2015)

Maine-Marine said:


> It was a topic of discussion here... and there were several people that also were looking at the Shmita...
> 
> It my posts offended you or you purchased extra food based on something i said or your feelings were hurt..I apologize... I hope however you realize that this is a PREPPER forum and we talk about things to prep for and in doing so future events will be discussed, hashed over, joked about, and talked about....
> 
> I am not sure why you are experiencing this amount of anger and bitterness over a post that happened 4 months ago... Again I apologize if you were offended... Not sure what else to say....


not anger ,sorry if it seems so-but I did tell you I was going to remind you of it every now and then, did I not?


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

sideKahr said:


> Hi, Will2. I'll use your technique of answering in detail:
> 
> _Will2: "Except for silver dollars, silver is a commodity not a money...frankly I have never seen anyone go into stores and use anything other than accepted currencies."_
> 
> Money is what people say it is. I'm selling a shotgun; I will happily accept US currency or 1 ounce Silver Eagles in exchange.


How many? And does that require a background check?



> _Will2: "...I think to most people sounds pretty crazy for you to think you will be able to go into a store and get a good exchange value using silver oz..."_
> 
> I can go to the store tomorrow and get a very fair price for my silver, it's called a coin store. Banks in most of the world will buy gold coins.


And after a market crash do you think you will still get a fair value for your coin after common household supplies become scarce?



> _Will2: "...Frankly the value of commodities like gold and silver drop to basement prices in crisis look at what happened in Yugoslavia to get an idea of value of commodities within a conflict zone..."_
> 
> Silver, and gold, are for carrying your wealth THROUGH the conflict to the other side, when you can trade it for the new currency. If you have held currency through the devaluation, you are broke.


I wasn't actually suggesting currency over bullion, I was suggesting essential goods over bullion.



> _Will2: "You need to research this stuff. It is far better to have goods you need in crisis than materials like gold and silver for exchange...
> _
> I have researched it. I've traded silver for years; it's been my most profitable investment. And why must it be an either/or choice. Hold goods AND silver.


Yes Mr. Anonymous net person are you a doctor too and former pro sports athlete?
If you are hiding who you are all attributions to your great financial successes are also suspect.



> _
> Will2: "I can understand doing this as portfolio management but if it is for a market crash no..."
> _
> Exactly!


Exactly what, you seemed to have clipped off that I was responding to the OP as reacting to a market crash, not to run of the mill portfolio management. I am not saying I don't think silver will perform over 2016, however I am not convinced now is the time to cash out USD for silver.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

By the Way.. the Chinese market closed UP


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Except for Hong Kong. Later today, Tuesday in China 4th quarter results are released. Tomorrow should be much more indicative of the internal market figures.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

Silver and Gold have been used for thousands of years as a medium of exchange and it isn't ever going to change. There's always someone who will tell folks all about how you can't eat them bit those folks are incapable of seeing the big picture. It isn't ever gonna change. I deal on both in order to protect myself from inflation and famine. At the very least I will be eating bread and beans while ignorant folks are selling their souls to fema to do the same when it costs a hundred dollars a loaf or one silver eagle to fill my bread basket!


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Arklatex said:


> Silver and Gold have been used for thousands of years as a medium of exchange and it isn't ever going to change. There's always someone who will tell folks all about how you can't eat them bit those folks are incapable of seeing the big picture. It isn't ever gonna change. I deal on both in order to protect myself from inflation and famine. At the very least I will be eating bread and beans while ignorant folks are selling their souls to fema to do the same when it costs a hundred dollars a loaf or one silver eagle to fill my bread basket!


I'm putting my money in silver, gold and beaver pelts.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

BuckB said:


> I'm putting my money in silver, gold and beaver pelts.


Hi BuckB, or whomever you are a sockpuppet for. I will ask you once to remove my intellectual property and use of my image from your account.


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Will2 said:


> Hi BuckB, or whomever you are a sockpuppet for. I will ask you once to remove my intellectual property and use of my image from your account.


I am not sure what you are talking about. The photo I am using for my image is a photo of me from about 20+ years ago when I was a beaver trapper. Your image is a 7.62x51 ammo box with a first aid cross on it. That was the one they gave me as a default but I did not want to infringe on your intellectual property.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

BuckB said:


> So which is it? Earlier in this thread you were lamenting the fact that a lot of the Canadian Oil Sands loans were held by U.S. banks and those loans were going into default. If a large basket of loans are going into default that does not promote strength for the currency those loans were written in - I.E. the U.S. Dollar. From reading the last 4 pages of drivel all I can gather is there is some kind of logic to the illogical in your world.


Hi, You don't seem to understand that the oil sands are the #1 export resource of Canada like worth over 100 billion dollars a year in good times. The next highest export is under 100 million. The oil sands being owned by US banks is a very big deal. Transfer of assets from Canada to the US is a very big deal and contributes to the US economy.

Here is some logic for you, I know you are just here to harass me. Here is some illogic for you, how you view things of economic signifigance. If you can't recognize how big a deal the default of oilsands loans are in terms of the North American economy go back to grade school and return when you understand basic economics. Also take your hate elsewhere.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Intellectual property.

You have placed it out here in the public domain.

Please show us the copyright for this image, and place notice on the image that it is copyright material so that we will all be aware of the fact that it is copyrighted.


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## BuckB (Jan 14, 2016)

Will2 said:


> Hi, You don't seem to understand that the oil sands are the #1 export resource of Canada like worth over 100 billion dollars a year in good times. The next highest export is under 100 million. The oil sands being owned by US banks is a very big deal. Transfer of assets from Canada to the US is a very big deal and contributes to the US economy.
> 
> Here is some logic for you, I know you are just here to harass me. Here is some illogic for you, how you view things of economic signifigance. If you can't recognize how big a deal the default of oilsands loans are in terms of the North American economy go back to grade school and return when you understand basic economics. Also take your hate elsewhere.


Settle down chief. I am not here to harass you. I am only here to challenge you to make sense. You said the U.S. Dollar is rock solid. You also said U.S. banks are underwriting the loans for the Canadian oil sands and are going to default. If the oil sands loans default, that is going to be really really bad for the U.S. banks and the U.S. Dollar. So which side are you on?


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## OSOKILL (Jun 4, 2012)

Will2 said:


> Hi BuckB, or whomever you are a sockpuppet for. I will ask you once to remove my intellectual property and use of my image from your account.


will thats NOT yours lol it is one of the default avatars that anyone on the forum is welcome to use and most likely will now that you tried to say its yours


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## OSOKILL (Jun 4, 2012)

ok just for the record it is MY opinion that the US dollar is NOT rock solid. it is fiat money and NOT asset backed. I know there are plans in the future to bring out new TRNs that will be asset backed and they will not say federal reserve on them. so set down the kool-aid and do some investigating.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

ffadmin said:


> will thats NOT yours lol it is one of the default avatars that anyone on the forum is welcome to use and most likely will now that you tried to say its yours


ffadmin, on the contrary both Slippy and BuckB used a picture of me I took a couple days ago. None of the images I take are public domain. IP law which is global assigns the rights of any creation to the creator of that work by default.

Just to clarify the image they were using was






or one very similar to it. As far as proving the identity therein, I would be more than willing to prove that in fact it is my image as well as that at law there is a rights assignment on it belonging to myself.

They are just being jerks as part of their gang stalking campaign which has been ongoing for over the past decade both online and offline, watch the whole thing for more details on what they are doing 




The use of the image was just done to bait me into a response. Them taking it down, or it being removed then denying it was just to make it appear that it wasn't used at all, however BuckB slipped up a bit. None the less anyone who actually viewed BuckB's avatar prior to the default being replaced would confirm that.

Denials at this point would just be an attempt to have people question my honesty or sanity, as that is part of their ongoing campaign to have people think I am crazy, when in fact I am totally sound.

None the less if you want more proof of ownership of the image contact me privately. Both Slippy and BuckB know very well the image was mine. It is not the first time that sort of things has happened, and I know their tactics as I have been dealing with them for over a decade now.

If you have a record of uploaded avatars their accounts should show that the picture was used as both Slippy and BuckB's avatar, if your site hasn't been compromised.

None the less they were using my image, and it is not in the public domain.

Just a primer who feel free to use others works without permission.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac-software/law-using-free-images-found-online-3526354/

Note that copyright law is global not just domestic.
http://www.publicdomainsherpa.com/10-misconceptions-about-the-public-domain.html


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## sideKahr (Oct 15, 2014)

Wow, Will2, I can see why you are such a lightning rod. This was the first time I disagreed with you because I have some experience with the original subject (investing in silver), and for my efforts I received the following comments to my rebuttals :

1.	An evasion
2.	Another question
3.	A clarification of your earlier remark
4.	An ad hominem attack
5.	An 'I don't know quite what'

I think I'll return to lurking on your posts. Have fun.

P.S. I especially liked the one where you stated, _"The only system that holds true or will hold true will be Marxism."_ But I lurk now.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Not sure I understand where this thread went.
Yes markets are down
No it is not the first time
Yes many have seen a reduction in paper value of investments
That does mean they lost any real cash yet, this happens to one level or another often . And then it corrects and moves on again. The big question is how long before it recovers. Now is the time to look for value. Doing so will ensure you not only do well in the recovery but also lose little to no value in the long run.
The ones that will lose their tails are those jumping in and out.


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## Real Old Man (Aug 17, 2015)

Will2 said:


> ffadmin, on the contrary both Slippy and BuckB used a picture of me I took a couple days ago. None of the images I take are public domain. IP law which is global assigns the rights of any creation to the creator of that work by default.
> 
> Just to clarify the image they were using was
> View attachment 14467
> ...


My but didn't we get up on the wrong side of bed. Reeeeerrroooooowwwwwww


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## hawgrider (Oct 24, 2014)

Will2 said:


> ffadmin, on the contrary both Slippy and BuckB used a picture of me I took a couple days ago. None of the images I take are public domain. IP law which is global assigns the rights of any creation to the creator of that work by default.
> 
> Just to clarify the image they were using was
> View attachment 14467
> ...


Hey Willy stop by my cheese smoking thread you need some cheese with that whine!


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

My sanity is in question now.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Deebo said:


> My sanity is in question now.


No, you are fine. Not that I am a psychiatrist or anything, but my sanity has been questioned many times. I don't get all _crazy_ when people do, though. An army psychiatrist said I am as sane as they come, so when people question my sanity I just smugly smile and go back to writing my manifesto. :21:

My manifesto, by the way, is in no way convoluted, I use proper grammar and punctuation, and I stay on track.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

I used to watch wills videos on YouTube, but I stopped becouse I felt so judgemental. 
Now, my YouTube tomfoolery is on again. 
If you wanna see a shirtless will putting dead squid on his sunburn, look for his YouTube channel, I won't post a link out of resp.....ah screw it, pm me for his channel.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Chinese fire drill, Chinese made chicken, Chinese everything.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

So, guys, unrelated to this thread, there's a lot of great videos on YouTube, I watch and subscribe to some, let me go get their propper names, so I can pass it on to you.


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## OSOKILL (Jun 4, 2012)

gawd will you sure do type a lot and say very little sometimes .... a simple they had it on there and removed it would have sufficed


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