# How extreme will be what is coming?



## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

Greetings everyone.

I wanted to talk about the issue of expectation of a certain level of disaster. I see a wide range of differing expectations for what people expect for the future. Maybe it's preparedness for bushfires, floods, earthquakes, hurricane. Or maybe its for economic collapse, martial law, grid down, earth changes. Maybe it is for war or for foreign invasion/troops.

There is a wide range of potentials that people are preparing for. I raise this because I see some people who might be preparing for a grid down or economic collapse or other scenario but they are set on staying at home and don't really have any plan if they were forced to leave due to danger. I see people who say they will resist a gun confiscation or something like that but they say they are set on staying at home and defending their property.

I see the signs on the horizon of economic collapse. Just this alone will cause food, water, electricity distribution to cease, bring death and famine and martial law. This is not including the signs on the horizon for war.

I don't know about you guys, and you can believe what you want but I personally believe we are coming into the biblical tribulation period. One World Government, Mark of the Beast, false messiah. Extreme events. Many people throughout history have been forced to leave their land or homes.

If something like Red Dawn occurred it's not something you can stay in your home with your rifles and be safe. I feel like a lot of what is coming up is going to involve getting away from populated areas, going into the wilderness. If events go so far to be as extreme as War, or events in the Bible (destruction of Babylon, likened to US) I think it's important to be mobile. I don't think vehicles and travelling on the roads can be relied on.

If you are heading to your location and a road block is in front of you with armed troops what are you going to do? You might not be able to turn around. If they force you to come with them you can't do much. If they force you to take an injection (maybe you are told there is an outbreak) what are you going to do? If you are watching what is going on in the world you know the level of surveillance and information gathering going on. Sitting at your home may not be safe depending upon what happens. Are you guys seeing the massive equipment build up and military hardware? I've personally had dreams of troops in APCs rounding people up and others of future disaster.

I'm just opening this discussion to talk about some of the more severe events that could happen and how this may change our bug out plans.

*I invite people to consider their current plans and what type of emergency they are expecting. What would you do if it was something more extreme?*

Something where there was no notice and you had no time to react? I just want to prompt some discussion on the different types of events that could be expected and how that might change your current plans, what equipment you carry, so that people consider this and think about more extreme situations they may have to react to.

I personally believe people should prepare to leave on foot if they have to with whatever they have at their disposal. It's fine if you get to your bug out location but what if danger presents and you have to leave this location? I think carrying survival essentials and knowledge, improvisation, imagination and determination (strong mental state), will be the most important. I have prepared in different ways but personally don't expect I will be able to be near any equipment for long. I expect something could happen and I may have to leave, so I decide to prepare for this potential. I don't want to be attached to any possessions or equipment and feel like I can't leave them. I feel like people who want to stay at their BOL or home at any cost are valuing their possessions and perceived security more than their lives. There are situations where you would have to leave. I think it's important to consider them and what you would do. That's why I personally believe the LOF Leave On Foot bag (aka INCH) is one of the most important things to keep (see my post detailing mine in the BOB section).

Anyway if anyone has any input or thoughts or discussion about the above, would be glad to hear.

*I don't know what exactly will happen, this is just a discussion,* but I think if you are preparing it is prudent to consider how you would respond to more extreme situations


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Nice to say that you believe we should prepare to leave on foot, if you are young & healthy. Many of us are not. But even then, survival on the run will be very, very difficult.

Few of us can prep for every situation but at least many here know that should not stop one from prepping altogether. For me, I live in rural Mississippi, off the beaten track, surrounded by good country folks & farmers. For me, I'll survive with my neighbors and friends... or I wont. I will not disappear into the woods. I call my farm the Alamo.

IMO, our society cannot sustain much of any crisis... be it economic, electronic hacking, grid down or invasion from Mars. We have too many soft folks, and not just the people that live off the government. Too many Americans have gotten away from the values that made our country great. Too much of our food comes from far away and is not grown locally. Too many people are no longer connected to the land & are unable to grow their own food. We are too dependent on transportation to deliver the food & goods needed to keep society running. So I prep for society to fail & for the resulting chaos. I hope I can survive that event & prep for doing so, but there are few guarantees. Only guarantee is I wont be running.


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

******* said:


> Nice to say that you believe we should prepare to leave on foot, if you are young & healthy. Many of us are not. But even then, survival on the run will be very, very difficult.
> 
> Few of us can prep for every situation but at least many here know that should not stop one from prepping altogether. For me, I live in rural Mississippi, off the beaten track, surrounded by good country folks & farmers. For me, I'll survive with my neighbors and friends... or I wont. I will not disappear into the woods. I call my farm the Alamo.
> 
> IMO, our society cannot sustain much of any crisis... be it economic, electronic hacking, grid down or invasion from Mars. We have too many soft folks, and not just the people that live off the government. Too many Americans have gotten away from the values that made our country great. Too much of our food comes from far away and is not grown locally. Too many people are no longer connected to the land & are unable to grow their own food. We are too dependent on transportation to deliver the food & goods needed to keep society running. So I prep for society to fail & for the resulting chaos. I hope I can survive that event & prep for doing so, but there are few guarantees. Only guarantee is I wont be running.


That's fair and I respect that. I know a lot of people are not able to be on the move. One of the biggest aids is being in an area out of the main population areas. It's going to be difficult when there are a lot of hungry, desperate people roaming around. Especially if you add anything extra on top of that (war, natural disaster etc.)

We all do what we can do with what we can. That's really good that your off the beaten track and with neighbors and good people around you. I see all of the same problems that you do. I see the attitudes of people today, even the ones I warn. It's mostly just desiring instant comfort and expecting things to go on forever. When you introduce extreme fear, hunger, thirst it is no surprise to me people will begin to act like savage animals. There are always going to be difficult decisions, and they aren't going to be able to be avoided. The biggest thing I believe is being away from a lot of people.

I know I'm saying it is good to be prepared to leave on foot. I also know many can't travel distances on foot, even holding minimal equipment. This doesn't change the fact that there may be danger approaching your land/area. The tough decisions will be many in these times, I just want people to think about it and steel themselves for whatever they decide. I personally believe in the Lord and will try my best no matter what happens and if death comes so be it, I know what awaits.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Those of us that already live in the country, the red areas, don't want you out here. You'll just compromise our situation. What makes you think you will be welcome with open arms?? You made your choice to be in the big city, blue areas, deal with it.


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

Chipper said:


> Those of us that already live in the country, the red areas, don't want you out here. You'll just compromise our situation. What makes you think you will be welcome with open arms?? You made your choice to be in the big city, blue areas, deal with it.


You are presumptuous to assume I live in city areas. I live in the country in Australia. There are still too many people around here. On a public holiday the roads can be packed. If there is any disaster, the roads will be packed, people will run out of fuel or accidents will block the road and the people will begin to pour into the countryside. As I said I have made my own preparations but even in my location, which many would consider to already be a good bug out location, I still believe there are situations where I may have to leave.

If I need to I plan to go deep wilderness, not go ask for help from people in a rural community, where I already live!


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## Knotacare (Sep 21, 2016)

I'm a senior citizen 70+ & in fairly good shape ...walk & exercise every day as does the spouse. This is a key to survival that many people don't think about if you're fat & out of shape kiss your ass good by & don't waste your time. But stomping thru the wood with a back pack is not in my plans. I do have a bug out location that is fully stocked with water, food , guns, ammo etc. Also have several friends & family that will navigate to this location. I believe in any situation you must have as many people as possible focused on survival. Holding up in your home with your family isn't gonna get it unless you have lots of wives & kids or live in a remote location. I've been preeping for many years & have been growing my own veggies for over 45 yrs. I have many different types of weapons & enough ammo to last longer than I'll live. I believe this is a life style & it's not for everyone, but it's like insurance I sure hope I never have to use it & I sure sleep better knowing I'm as prepared for almost any emergency. I guess I sweat the EMP the most because it's gonna happen just don't know when..


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Chipper said:


> Those of us that already live in the country, the red areas, don't want you out here. You'll just compromise our situation. What makes you think you will be welcome with open arms?? You made your choice to be in the big city, blue areas, deal with it.


Agree & why I think many folks with their bug out bags & vehicles might be surprised to find many roads & communities closed. After hurricane Katrina, when New Orleans flooded, the folks across the river in Gretna closed the bridge to evacuees. I see the same thing happening all over the country during a crisis. I think real soon communities will realize their own safety will be jeopardized if evacuees are allowed to flood in. So I think one will find road closures rather quickly.


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

******* said:


> Agree & why I think many folks with their bug out bags & vehicles might be surprised to find many roads & communities closed. After hurricane Katrina, when New Orleans flooded, the folks across the river in Gretna closed the bridge to evacuees. I see the same thing happening all over the country during a crisis. I think real soon communities will realize their own safety will be jeopardized if evacuees are allowed to flood in. So I think one will find road closures rather quickly.


I agree, but I know that many aren't in their bug out locations yet. I know most of my family aren't in the same location as me, and if roads are blocked they may not be able to reach me. Even in the country and in the rural areas roads may be closed. If there are more serious problems like war, troops or martial law it may be difficult to travel even locally. Banding up with your immediate neighbors and if you are in a location away from big concentrations of people is a great plan. There are always things that can go wrong. I just feel like those who are in good locations or have a nicely stocked bug out location, don't become over confident. If you have some packs ready to leave on foot just encase this is just a good emergency contingency. If you are attacked or there is any danger, flood, bush fire, there are many reasons you could have to leave.



Knotacare said:


> I'm a senior citizen 70+ & in fairly good shape ...walk & exercise every day as does the spouse. This is a key to survival that many people don't think about if you're fat & out of shape kiss your ass good by & don't waste your time. But stomping thru the wood with a back pack is not in my plans. I do have a bug out location that is fully stocked with water, food , guns, ammo etc. Also have several friends & family that will navigate to this location. I believe in any situation you must have as many people as possible focused on survival. Holding up in your home with your family isn't gonna get it unless you have lots of wives & kids or live in a remote location. I've been preeping for many years & have been growing my own veggies for over 45 yrs. I have many different types of weapons & enough ammo to last longer than I'll live. I believe this is a life style & it's not for everyone, but it's like insurance I sure hope I never have to use it & I sure sleep better knowing I'm as prepared for almost any emergency. I guess I sweat the EMP the most because it's gonna happen just don't know when..


That's good to hear. Nice work on keeping fit and ready. Its understandable that going through the woods with your pack is not in your plans. You have a bug out location and some good people to join you. As you say holding up in your location may not cut it, this may even be holding up in your bug out location. If you are very remote it could be fine. But you should have a plan to leave/evacuate. If you have essential equipment in your pack and your family have similar packs (according to their weight carrying capacity) you can restart a community in the wilderness. It may not involve constant travel. Once you get to an area you could establish more permanent shelter and look for hunting, foraging, growing options. I just feel like people are limiting themselves when I see them say "I'll be at my property until I die" I've literally had few people tell me this in person. You've got some great skills and establishing gardens and growing is valuable knowledge. I foresee the problem as being location, location, location. If your bug out location is good, there aren't many people around, you have good community, that is great. But if your location gets overrun, there are other situations such as natural disaster or danger forcing you out of your home, I think some consideration to emergency leave on foot bags is valuable. Thanks for your post.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

you need a bit more prepper seasoning before giving advise and expecting anyone to agree with you - much less take your advise ....

if you melt down your entire posting to the quik - you're basically what's considered to be a Jeremiah Johnson prepper - just go into the woods and live off the land .... and .... what the more practical and experienced preppers see as another soon-to-be desperate refugee - turning to looting & raiding to survive ....

turn off the Red Dawn and get a dose of reality by watching a show like Alone ....


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

There is no way to "predict" what is going to happen, . . . other to know that it WILL HAPPEN, . . . it always has.

Civilization has never just "sat", . . . something, somewhere, somehow is always modifying what is here today, . . . again tomorrow, etc.

Yes we can look out for military build ups, . . . for economic collapses, . . . food shortages, . . . and some others.

An EMP strike will never be predicted to the point it will be a major help to the people it was detonated against.

Nobody anywhere has a seismic device that says in so many months, weeks, and days, . . . the San Andreas fault will finally allow California to roll over into the ocean, making Nevada the new Western ocean front property.

No one can tell exactly when the cauldron under Yosemite will blow.

No one can tell when an asteroid will pop through the sky and devastate England, . . . landing between Birmingham and Nottingham.

OTOH, . . . make what preparations one can, . . . and can be financially affordable, . . . befriend other preppers, . . . and pray for the best.

I'm hoping myself, . . . that when I'm gone, . . . someone will look at my pile of preps and just shake their head at all I did for nothing.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

Illini Warrior said:


> you need a bit more prepper seasoning before giving advise and expecting anyone to agree with you - much less take your advise ....
> 
> if you melt down your entire posting to the quik - you're basically what's considered to be a Jeremiah Johnson prepper - just go into the woods and live off the land .... and .... what the more practical and experienced preppers see as another soon-to-be desperate refugee - turning to looting & raiding to survive ....
> 
> turn off the Red Dawn and get a dose of reality by watching a show like Alone ....


People's arrogance and presumption is really disconcerting. Do you know me? Do you know my bug out location? Do you know my survival preps? Do you know my survival knowledge?

Quick to assume, quick to judge and quick to label. Truly disappointing. You don't think a Red Dawn situation could be reality? You scoff at the potential for WW3? You scoff at the potential for biblical tribulation? You think things are going to last forever or will return to stability after three months?

Thanks for your judgments but I don't need them.


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

dwight55 said:


> There is no way to "predict" what is going to happen, . . . other to know that it WILL HAPPEN, . . . it always has.
> 
> Civilization has never just "sat", . . . something, somewhere, somehow is always modifying what is here today, . . . again tomorrow, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post. I don't know exactly what will happen, no one does, but I know SOMETHING WILL. My feelings are just that it's going to be a lot more extreme than people expect. I feel the same about the preps I've made, that If I have to leave them that I hope someone good can make use of them.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

What is up with the huge rash of "what if" topics we have been getting lately? And then those same members freak out when someone criticizes them.
@lawlord, Calm down dude, no one is giving you a medal for a high post count or a huge amount of paragraphs per post.

Youre the tenth Red Dawn-type we have gotten on the forum in the last month alone, in this situation youd be wise to heed some of the seasoned guys advice, calm down, stop pushing your vanilla prepper youtube videos or you will find your rucksack in the hall

sent from a paper cup and string via quantum wierdness


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> What is up with the huge rash of "what if" topics we have been getting lately? And then those same members freak out when someone criticizes them.
> @lawlord, Calm down dude, no one is giving you a medal for a high post count or a huge amount of paragraphs per post.
> 
> Youre the tenth Red Dawn-type we have gotten on the forum in the last month alone, in this situation youd be wise to heed some of the seasoned guys advice, calm down, stop pushing your vanilla prepper youtube videos or you will find your rucksack in the hall
> ...


Your the one bringing the criticism and no discussion. Cheers for your input mate. I'll give you some advice that it would be wise to not judge by appearances. I like how you call my videos vanilla prepper (you probably haven't watched them). Guess this is how it goes around here.

It's the very premise of my discussion that people aren't entertaining some of the more severe emergencies and this is exactly what you are doing, ridiculing the discussion of them.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

@lawlord you said : " I live in the country in Australia " . Most of us live in the USA , this is no like where you live . We prep in different ways then you all do down there . Everyone preps for how they need to survive , I am disabled " in a power chair " and I have to prep for that . At this point in time I am 90% complete with my preps , I just need a few more things to be done . There are a lot of people here that are over 50 that are preppers . Most of us will not be able to hike when SHTF , So do you get my point ?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

The current events in the Middle East and concerning Israel are giving me a feeling of uneasiness.


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

Targetshooter said:


> @lawlord you said : " I live in the country in Australia " . Most of us live in the USA , this is no like where you live . We prep in different ways then you all do down there . Everyone preps for how they need to survive , I am disabled " in a power chair " and I have to prep for that . At this point in time I am 90% complete with my preps , I just need a few more things to be done . There are a lot of people here that are over 50 that are preppers . Most of us will not be able to hike when SHTF , So do you get my point ?


That's totally fine and perfectly reasonable. I know many aren't going to be able to go on the move and walk with weight. So doing your best is all you can do and I hope your location stays in a good situation. I know many are older preppers. I'm not trying to put anyone down or say their preparations are inadequate or anything like that. All I'm saying is that there can be situations that bring danger to your area and you may have to leave. If you can't leave then you deal with the situation. Though I live in Australia I keep up to date with all US news, I believe events in the future will effect worldwide so I don't see how me living in Australia and you being in the US means my post is not relevant. So I get your point, I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful I'm just trying to discuss these topics.



Denton said:


> The current events in the Middle East and concerning Israel are giving me a feeling of uneasiness.


Same here. The resolution now mandates and provides an edict saying Isreal has no rights to Jerusalem, essentially a denial of Christ and their relationship to Christ. Whether the people in Isreal are all true jews or not, I feel there will be something not good coming out of this. There is a reason this happened in the end of Obama's 2nd term.

We've got troops positioned by NATO/Russia all over the border. We've got 40 million person nuclear war drill in Russia. Global debt bubble of 200 Trillion and interest rates being raised (increasing repayments required, defaults incoming soon). We've got allegations of cyberattacks between US/Russia and threatened reprisals. We've got US/China relations in South China Sea. We've got calls for no fly zone in Syria which US generals say would lead to WW3. We've got Russia deploying nuclear missiles, we've got NATO countries preparing for war. We've got big troop and equipment movements. We've got anti-propaganda legislation being passed. There is so much happening suggesting a WW could happen, especially since wars in the past usually occurred during periods of economic instability (what we are about to go into).

So please excuse me if I don't take people seriously who wholly discount these potentials.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Yup. Interesting times, indeed.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Chipper said:


> Those of us that already live in the country, the red areas, don't want you out here. You'll just compromise our situation. What makes you think you will be welcome with open arms?? You made your choice to be in the big city, blue areas, deal with it.


So, what are you saying @Chipper, in the event of a disaster my wife, 6 kids, 4 cats, 2 dogs, and my pet Parakeet can't come to stay with ya? :vs_sad: Damn. It's getting harder and harder to find good accommodations these days. :vs_lol:


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Ok, you're talking about Red Dawn and heading to the wilderness. What then, are you just going constantly moving place to place? What about shelter, water and food? In Red Dawn they relied on town folk for food and clothing.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Red Dawn... the Russians are comming lol 
I love how everyone is afraid of us :vs_laugh:
I'm not laughing at your topic, just lightening things up a bit.


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

inceptor said:


> Ok, you're talking about Red Dawn and heading to the wilderness. What then, are you just going constantly moving place to place? What about shelter, water and food? In Red Dawn they relied on town folk for food and clothing.


I can make shelter in the wilderness. A more permanent home I can make from a wood frame and cob. Less permenant are my tent and tarp. I can improvise shelter. Water I would try to find a river, dam or stream. I can boil water, I can filter water. I can create a charcoal filter. Food I have a rifle I can hunt, I have others with me. If the hunting is not good I can trap, I can fish. If that is not good I know the edible weeds in my area and can eat these for vitamins/minerals. I have a digging tool and am not afraid to eat insects, catch grubs etc.

I would only leave my bug out location if I was forced to. If you are forced to leave your bug out location it will be just that. You will be forced to leave. It might be military, it might be floods, it might be a bushfire, it might be too many people in your area. Or you may decide to stay, that's up to you. There's situations where it is a wiser choice to leave, even if that means leaving behind your equipment and stored food/water.

I'm not presenting the leave into the wilderness idea as the first preference. But I am suggesting that you should be prepared to do it if you have to (and if you can).


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

TG said:


> Red Dawn... the Russians are comming lol
> I love how everyone is afraid of us :vs_laugh:
> I'm not laughing at your topic, just lightening things up a bit.


I really like Russians. I just don't trust the world's leadership. I see things in a long term perspective and from a biblical perspective and see the setup for a large war coming. The players have clearly already been defined. Russia/China/North Korea/Iran and US/NATO/allies.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Denton said:


> The current events in the Middle East and concerning Israel are giving me a feeling of uneasiness.


I share your concern, this could go sideways quickly given that most of the major players already have their military's on site.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

TG said:


> Red Dawn... the Russians are comming lol
> I love how everyone is afraid of us :vs_laugh:
> I'm not laughing at your topic, just lightening things up a bit.


You're just one scary girl :vs_smirk:


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

TG said:


> Red Dawn... the Russians are comming lol
> I love how everyone is afraid of us :vs_laugh:
> I'm not laughing at your topic, just lightening things up a bit.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

Denton said:


> The current events in the Middle East and concerning Israel are giving me a feeling of uneasiness.


Sure, but we have been thru worse... much worse. Think of the wars they have fought. Think of how it must have felt after Pearl Harbor. Think of how it felt during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Think of how we used to be on a hair trigger with our nukes pointed at Russia & me receiving a message telling us to insert launch keys. I can't imagine living thru a world war... much less two of them as so many folks did. Think of how many Russians died during WWII.

When you look back thru history, I'd say the times today are pretty tame.


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

Prepared One said:


>


I saw this movie in Russian with English subtitles in a movie theatre back home.. we laughed so hard :vs_laugh:


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

******* said:


> Sure, but we have been thru worse... much worse. Think of the wars they have fought. Think of how it must have felt after Pearl Harbor. Think of how it felt during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Think of how we used to be on a hair trigger with our nukes pointed at Russia & me receiving a message telling us to insert launch keys. I can't imagine living thru a world war... much less two of them as so many folks did. Think of how many Russians died during WWII.
> 
> When you look back thru history, I'd say the times today are pretty tame.


At the moment and especially to most people things feel like they could stretch on forever, nothing much seems to be happening. But quietly (or not so quietly) there has been a lot of build up suggesting a WW may occur, we even had the Ambassador assassination (something similar started WW1). When we've got Russian and US planes fighting in the same country (Syria) and US sailing ships near South China Sea all it takes is one accident. I don't think people expected WW1 or WW2 before they begun. To me it feels like something is going to happen that are going to tip things over the edge. I hope not, since WW3 would not be good for anyone.


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## Redneck (Oct 6, 2016)

lawlord said:


> At the moment and especially to most people things feel like they could stretch on forever, nothing much seems to be happening. But quietly (or not so quietly) there has been a lot of build up suggesting a WW may occur, we even had the Ambassador assassination (something similar started WW1). When we've got Russian and US planes fighting in the same country (Syria) and US sailing ships near South China Sea all it takes is one accident. I don't think people expected WW1 or WW2 before they begun. To me it feels like something is going to happen that are going to tip things over the edge. I hope not, since WW3 would not be good for anyone.


I don't worry so much about WWIII. The global economy, which was not in place during the other world wars, has all the major players too dependent on trade with each other. The threat of mutually assured destruction has done a good job of stopping wars between the super powers. I also believe social media & 24 hour a day world news helps to keep a country from using propaganda to sway public opinion. Back in WWII we saw the Japanese as not human & they feared us likewise. Today, we know the Russian & Chinese people are just like us... no matter what some leader may try to portray others as.

My fear are the countries/groups that aren't part of the global economy & who completely restrict social media & global communication. I fear the countries that completely indoctrinate their populations to believe what their leaders state. So I fear folks like North Korea & ISIS.


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

******* said:


> I don't worry so much about WWIII. The global economy, which was not in place during the other world wars, has all the major players too dependent on trade with each other. The threat of mutually assured destruction has done a good job of stopping wars between the super powers. I also believe social media & 24 hour a day world news helps to keep a country from using propaganda to sway public opinion. Back in WWII we saw the Japanese as not human & they feared us likewise. Today, we know the Russian & Chinese people are just like us... no matter what some leader may try to portray others as.
> 
> My fear are the countries/groups that aren't part of the global economy & who completely restrict social media & global communication. I fear the countries that completely indoctrinate their populations to believe what their leaders state. So I fear folks like North Korea & ISIS.


That's true about NK and ISIS. Media in these times has given people a better feel of those in other countries. However, we are seeing many countries move towards total spying, data retention and centralised storing and profiling of phone, internet and surveillance information. We are having allegations of cyber attacks and now having anti-propaganda legislation passed by the US to counter Russia. This is also happening in Europe. We have the US calling alternative media fake news and that it's run by Russian agents etc. There are promises of retaliatory measures for cyber attacks. These types of setups are preparing for controlling the information narrative if a war or further escalation occurred.

The premise of mutually assured destruction is at threat. Russia claims that the THAAD missile systems in South Korea and missile systems in the EU are destroying the strategic world balance, because if there was a nuclear exchange the missles from Russia could be shot down by this defensive system (they claim it can be used offensively, but US claims it is a defensive system to counter the threat from Iran). We have Putin himself saying their technological advancement in nuclear terms exceeds the US, Trump admits so but is not backing down from an arms race (recent comments). Look at people's opinions of Israel to see the level of animosity people can have towards a people.

In terms of the global economy. Russia has been sanctioned for years by the US and is doing all their trade elsewhere, not relying on the US dollar, with China and other BRICS nations. The BRICS nations are selling vast amounts of US treasury bonds on the market which forces the US Federal Reserve to print money to buy them. The baltic dry index (measure for worldwide shipping) has been at historic lows in last few years and is still low, world wide trade is low and shipping is low. US is coming up to 20 trillion in debt. EU banks are on the verge of failure with Deutsche Bank, the largest and most systemically important bank in Europe accepting a 7.2 Billion dollar fine and holding a massive 50+ Trillion derivative liability position. The Banks in Italy the 8th largest economy are on the verge of failure, their Gov just approved a 20 billion dollar bail out. Many other countries in the EU are in recession. As the Fed Reserve raises rates, house prices are going to take a hit and it is going to increase the debt repayments on the 20 Trill. Worldwide debt stands at over 200 Trillion. The only way this system keeps working is by creating more debt and printing money. Time is running out. There is a finite clock on this fiat system.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

******* said:


> Nice to say that you believe we should prepare to leave on foot, if you are young & healthy. Many of us are not. But even then, survival on the run will be very, very difficult.


My knees are shot and I have kids under 5. If I bug out it will be in a vehicle



******* said:


> For me, I'll survive with my neighbors and friends... or I wont


this - I have some folks that will move into gather in the event of a really bad thing .. and we will live or die together



******* said:


> IMO, our society cannot sustain much of any crisis... be it economic, electronic hacking, grid down or invasion from Mars.


I agree - it would not take much to set off a storm of crap


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## TG (Jul 28, 2014)

...and here I am, prepping for good, old fashioned ice storms


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## SDF880 (Mar 28, 2013)

Bugging in here! Wife and I would be dead inside a week if we set out. We're in good shape for extended bug in
we'll just have to see what situation or multi-situations unfold. 

2 rules here - 1, I'm not going out hungry and 2, not going out without a hellofa fight!


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

Yep I can absolutely see there is a lot of people who would not be able to carry weight and go off into the wilderness. One of my knees is actually playing up a bit and if this got worse I would do the same, be at my home and do what I could until I could no more! 

Another thing that can be useful is a good bug out trailer. I've found a few locations in some more remote locations than my current location. If there was time I could decide to move to one of these locations. This depends on the roads/condition/any roadblocks. I'm in the country but I feel like the roads will be clogged up here unless they are blocked and there will still be too many people. I feel like I may need to be more remote. In that way I can drive into a more remote location with my trailer. That way can carry more food and other equipment. Got a few options anyway.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

One should try to prepare for any and all potential events. I do not get why folks try to determine "how bad things will get" when you are better off just assuming that they will be the worst possible.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

RedLion said:


> One should try to prepare for any and all potential events. I do not get why folks try to determine "how bad things will get" when you are better off just assuming that they will be the worst possible.


Yup, pretty much.


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## lawlord (Dec 27, 2016)

RedLion said:


> One should try to prepare for any and all potential events. I do not get why folks try to determine "how bad things will get" when you are better off just assuming that they will be the worst possible.


That's one of the reasons I made this thread. I saw a lot of people who were expecting limited disaster scenarios or thought they would be safe riding everything out at their home or bug out location. The point of this thread and the question I asked was for people to imagine things being more extreme than they anticipated, and to consider how it would change your plans. I'm preparing for extreme situations and I believe people need to be ready to leave their homes if they have to, and if they can.


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## warrior4 (Oct 16, 2013)

Honestly it would depend on the situation. However if things did get extreme I do have a plan in place to walk to a bug out location with my wife. I would much rather drive as if we were forced to bug out I'd rather keep as many of my supplies as I possibly could and I can get a lot more into a car than I can in my backpack. It would be hazardous either way. There are always pros and cons to either Bugging In or Bugging Out.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Chances are, in my opinion, a well prepared and attentive person will have adequate notice to implement a plan and start it (bug-in or bug-out) for most likely SHTF situations, such as a financial collapse. Some situations like a nuclear strike, you would have to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and properly prepared.


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## Gridrebel (Mar 31, 2016)

I am still considering an underground bug out on my own property. On 8 acres, much of it treed with some bare spots, I am contemplating putting an underground shelter which would be an acre or two from the main house but camouflaged by local wild woods fairly thick. Simple but livable. I have no desire to travel and live off the land, besides, where would I go? I also am early elderly and already live in the boondocks. 

A big hole and some gravel, a 5th wheel or school bus, shipping container or similar, would be cheap. I wouldn't even have to cover it with much dirt, just some brush and stuff. Done right, it might be a very viable situation.

My biggest concern is an EMP or nukes destroying power grids causing long term chaos.


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## SOCOM42 (Nov 9, 2012)

If you use a shipping container, reinforce the roof.

Then bury it with about three feet of dirt, it will stay a lot warmer in winter and cooler in summer.

The added dirt helps in a fallout condition also.

The Branch Davidian had a school bus buried.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

I think that in Australia that you have a huge area in which to bug out to. I guess you could get real tired of eating kangaroo but from what I understand in some areas they are very common. Learning the wild edible plants would be a very good thing. If you have solar and can find water sources you should be set for quite awhile. 


Here in rural America I have taken as many precautions/ preparations as I can to stay on my farm. We have a stash of food, livestock, gardens, orchards, grass, water. War would be the only reason I can think of that would require us to move. Ice storm, snow storm, economic collapse, civil unrest in metro areas, earth quake, wild fire, tornado, heavy rains, short duration drought, loose of grid no problem . Large numbers of displaced persons moving thru the area we will have difficulties but still do not see leaving rather work on how to band more people together to work fields and secure what we have from looters
.
If we do have to move we are going by vehicle if we can, next choice bike then on foot. I have a 4x4 truck and travel trailer as well as a jeep and back country trailer, bikes and bug out bags. The issue then would be were to go to, it would depend on what was happening with the war. 

In a Nuclear War we are not likely to survive the first strike as we are close to nuclear bomber air base.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

RJAMES said:


> I think that in Australia that you have a huge area in which to bug out to. I guess you could get real tired of eating kangaroo but from what I understand in some areas they are very common. Learning the wild edible plants would be a very good thing. If you have solar and can find water sources you should be set for quite awhile.
> 
> Here in rural America I have taken as many precautions/ preparations as I can to stay on my farm. We have a stash of food, livestock, gardens, orchards, grass, water. War would be the only reason I can think of that would require us to move. Ice storm, snow storm, economic collapse, civil unrest in metro areas, earth quake, wild fire, tornado, heavy rains, short duration drought, loose of grid no problem . Large numbers of displaced persons moving thru the area we will have difficulties but still do not see leaving rather work on how to band more people together to work fields and secure what we have from looters
> .
> ...


If you have adequate preps for a nuclear strike, then there is no reason that you and yours can not survive.


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## RJAMES (Dec 23, 2016)

RedLion said:


> If you have adequate preps for a nuclear strike, then there is no reason that you and yours can not survive.


If we were in a underground shelter when the attack came perhaps. The place came with a concrete room in the basement that works great as a tornado shelter. The nuclear bunker would have to be much deeper and we would have to be in it or the thermal radiation would get us.

If we had a period of increased tension we could displace in our camper outside the thermal radiation zone and wait it out if no strike comes we could then return but having that warning is a great big if.

This is the draw back to my location on the plus side easy access to medical clinic and on base stores. Not using the stores much anymore but we did when we fist moved here.


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