# To the gun show



## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I long ago for many reason just wrote gun shows off. Pay to park pay to get in same old stuff ect.
Had some time to kill and there was one 25 miles from here, I get there no charge for parking and 7.00 to get in not bad so I get in a long line.
To my surprise I see AK47 and AR15,Lowers and complete uppers. Some was entry level stuff and some high end parts. Quick glance I see a lot of Mags new and used.
My interest up I look closed. Used Bushmasters at 2 to 3 time what they sell for new. 300-600 dollar AK47 900 and up. Mags That fleet farm has right now for 18-19.00 they have them for 25-50.00. Ammo what junk they had 1.00 a round or more. Used Bolt action rifles with price tags higher than I could go into town and buy new.
Pretty much way over price everyday items for the most part. The New AR15 were way out of line in price, I figure that is why I did not see any walking out the door.
There were some side deals going on people that came trading their personal weapons for cash or different weapons.
A few walking around with Old 20 inch barrel .223 with some crazy prices hanging on them. Look to me like they would be carrying them back home.
My point is there is product out there maybe no where near what there should be but the prices are nuts. No way on earth I would pay the kind of money they want for The AK's and AR's. If I needed a weapon that bad I would fine something else.
In every trash pile there maybe some gold, there were a few new m14's at the going price they should be new. There were some M1 Grands That were complete rebuilds That were priced right if you were in the market for one. The odd ball foreign junk here and there , most marked up a few bucks.
One dealer there I knew from his shop told me his barrel cost were up 20 dollars a barrel right now.
Hand guns , a large number from new to junk no real deals on anything. The new ones again could be had in town for same or lower cost.
Way to many accessories scope's slings lasers ,flash lights and bad boy parts. When are they going to learn if you aren't sell the weapons your not going to move the mark up items very well.
I did make a purchase for 5 dollars 3 clips and yes they were old one not new manufacture and I have lost a couple over the years.
All in all a 12 dollar outing.
For me it will be awhile before I hit another one.


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

I haven't been to the shooting range lately but I was wondering if people are goin or are they holding onto their ammo. Maybe a lot of new shooters. Any one seen anything different than usual.


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## CourtSwagger (Jan 3, 2013)

My range is like a ghost town. I was there by myself for the first time in a long time 2 weeks ago.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Just an observation but maybe high prices are a sign of good quality?
I mean, if we bought marked-down guns and ammo dead cheap could we rely on them, especially if maybe they're second-hand, old and unreliable?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Range I have been known to use sometimes has become more and more selective in who they want using the range. Because of that the user tend to be real shooters and they will shoot no madder what. They will not even sell you a weapon now unless you are a "member" basically mean they must know you and that means for awhile .
I stopped in last week and even they were out of 9mm rounds. And short on 5.56


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Just an observation but maybe high prices are a sign of good quality?
> I mean, if we bought marked-down guns and ammo dead cheap could we rely on them, especially if maybe they're second-hand, old and unreliable?


 A cheap junk gun is the same at 90 dollars as it is at 500 just make you feel better when you pay 90 for it.
Some cheap guns were not junk older SKS's sold for 70 dollars they were good. Picked up 303 Enfileds for 70 bucks great shooters and well made.
At one time you could buy Surplus M1 grands for 100 buck that was cheap then but a still of a deal.
If your buying used weapons you should know what your doing a junker can be made to look good .


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

I went to one last weekend. Prices are up over-all for sure. There are still some good deals out there. You just have to hunt harder for them now. If I had had some money I saw a couple I would have bought.


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## bennettvm (Jan 5, 2013)

I went to the Nations Gun Show today in Virginia. I enjoy going, but $13 at the door is a little high. Absolutely no .22 ammo in the building. The ammo vendors actually laughed when I asked for it. I went to another show recently and picked up a decent amount, but I think this shortage/hoarding or whatever you call it is a total crap. 

a brick of 500 is going as high as $80 at some of the shows. When Walmart carries them those are $30-$40. I understand supply and demand, but double the normal price?


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

I have more than I will ever need. But like many want more. I will not buy at these prices I can wait. If Obama and DHS have their way and tie the market up then ban most of it .
I will still get by.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> I long ago for many reason just wrote gun shows off. Pay to park pay to get in same old stuff ect.
> Had some time to kill and there was one 25 miles from here, I get there no charge for parking and 7.00 to get in not bad so I get in a long line.
> To my surprise I see AK47 and AR15,Lowers and complete uppers. Some was entry level stuff and some high end parts. Quick glance I see a lot of Mags new and used.
> My interest up I look closed. Used Bushmasters at 2 to 3 time what they sell for new. 300-600 dollar AK47 900 and up. Mags That fleet farm has right now for 18-19.00 they have them for 25-50.00. Ammo what junk they had 1.00 a round or more. Used Bolt action rifles with price tags higher than I could go into town and buy new.
> ...


Ahh capitalism at it's best! I go to gun shows just to gawk and maybe buy a hairbrush that shoots pepper spray and hides a knife  The prices always seem to be much higher than my local gun shop. Have you noticed that the same high prices are on gunbroker? I'm finding that I can still get a decent price from my local shop but I have to be willing to wait.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

rickkyw1720pf said:


> I haven't been to the shooting range lately but I was wondering if people are goin or are they holding onto their ammo. Maybe a lot of new shooters. Any one seen anything different than usual.


I'm still going to the range to shoot but I'm shooting black powder and saving all my smokeless ammo. I'm really getting into black powder and it's cheaper and available.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Local shop are sell at a fair market up when the can get product. Shops I know are seeing price rise and shortages at any price.
Stripped Upper receivers as repair parts are next to imposable to get at any price.
One of the excuse the Military used switching to Remington as a supplier of some M4's was to easy the burden on Colt.
they had claimed even then Colt could not keep up with US Government demand.


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Smitty901 said:


> Local shop are sell at a fair market up when the can get product. Shops I know are seeing price rise and shortages at any price.
> Stripped Upper receivers as repair parts are next to imposable to get at any price.
> One of the excuse the Military used switching to Remington as a supplier of some M4's was to easy the burden on Colt.
> they had claimed even then Colt could not keep up with US Government demand.


From what I hear is that there are only 4 companies that mass produce m4 lowers. DPMS and Remington are one and the same. If you watch their site and grab it when it becomes available, the plum crazy polymer lower is a great price and is now being used by the military under the name PCR. It's true that Colt couldn't keep up and had a quarter million rifles returned because of manufacturing defects.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Do guns ever wear out if used a lot? Which part usually goes first?
And is it best to replace the part or dump the whole gun and buy a new one?

PS- If you dump a worn-out licensed gun, do you have to notify the cops so that they can remove it from the gun-owners register or whatever?


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

oswegoscott said:


> ...I don't have any "registered" weapons and never will have


I know zilch about US gun laws especially as they seem to differ from state to state. 
If I was a US citizen who wanted a gun, would I just be able to go down the gun shop and buy one and take it straight home, or would there first have to be lots of form-filling and a 10-day wait or something before I can go back to the shop to collect it?


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> I know zilch about US gun laws especially as they seem to differ from state to state.
> If I was a US citizen who wanted a gun, would I just be able to go down the gun shop and buy one and take it straight home, or would there first have to be lots of form-filling and a 10-day wait or something before I can go back to the shop to collect it?


It depends on what state you are in. For example here in the free state of New Mexico, you can pick one out fill out a simple form, wait for the salesman to make a simple phone call and your on your way out the door with your new firearm.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> ..here in the free state of New Mexico, you can pick one out fill out a simple form, wait for the salesman to make a simple phone call and your on your way out the door with your new firearm.


Does he make the "simple phone call" to the cops so they can run a background check on the police computer?
And suppose somebody was a criminal buying the gun, wouldn't he get round it by just giving a phoney name and address?


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## rickkyw1720pf (Nov 17, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Does he make the "simple phone call" to the cops so they can run a background check on the police computer?
> And suppose somebody was a criminal buying the gun, wouldn't he get round it by just giving a phoney name and address?


In many states like here in Kentucky the background check only takes a couple of minutes. I am guessing less then 3 you fill out a one page form mostly by checking yes or no boxes to questions. I don't think the form takes more then a couple of minutes. But if you want to buy a gun from a private person he hands you the gun and you hand him the money that is how it has been for 225 years and we don't wan't that changed.


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Wisconsin instant back round check for long guns your out the door in no time. Hand guns 48 hour wait. By law there is suppose to be no record of the serial numbers . But we all know the Government does keep them and checks them , we seen how that works.
But that will all change before long


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## Meangreen (Dec 6, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Does he make the "simple phone call" to the cops so they can run a background check on the police computer?
> And suppose somebody was a criminal buying the gun, wouldn't he get round it by just giving a phoney name and address?


The call is to ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) and yes it is to be sure that your able to purchase.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

I haven't been to a show since the panic buying started but last one I was at there were still some deals if you looked hard enough. The key to gun shows is to know what you're looking for and what you are willing to pay before you go. First off I don't buy new guns at shows, I have a friend with an FFL for that; I go to shows to find reloading components, deals on used guns, or bulk surplus ammo. Gun shows are not the place to find deals on new guns, they are always over priced. If you're looking for new guns you should go to the local gun shops and see who's got the best deal, even the chain stores have better deals on new guns than the shows. Shows are a great place to buy components, there's very few dealers locally that stock components and those that do have a very small selection. There's one show here every few months that has a dealer there that usually has just about everything you could need, he's my source of choice for powder (god knows if he'll have any next weekend when I go). I always go up & down the aisles 3-4 times before I decide on anything if I'm looking to buy, there's always someone offering a better deal. Case in point, the last show I went to I picked up a 1971 Marlin 336 in .35 Rem for $340+ tax, that's a good deal around here. The rest of the 336s at that particular show were $400 and up. I looked at every Marlin at that show before I decided and I talked the guy down off his sticker price a bit, it was also a dealer I've done business with in the past so I trusted him.

-Infidel


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Couple things to remember about gun shows. 
The dealers are at the show setting up and are standing around with nothing to do hours before "you" are allowed in. Guess what they do?? Walk around and buy anything they think they can make some more money on. This is how they make a living.
They live for the local guy coming in to sell or trade a gun. Usually getting out a 2-3 year old blue book to rip the guy off. But again this is how they make a living. Buy cheap and sell as high as possible. 
Used guns, especially scopes, at a show are one of the biggest gambles you can take with your money. Ask yourself why that is sitting on the table. Does it work? Is it worn out? Has it had 10 or 10000 rounds run through it? Will you be able to find the seller again if you have problems? It's buyer beware, sold as is. 
"Most" dealers don't have a store or business name to uphold. They just pay $30 for a table and wait for the parade of suckers to walk by trying to milk them for all they can. 
I'm to the point of just not attending shows anymore. I have set up tables at a lot of shows the last few years and it's gotten to the point that I can't stomach it any longer. It's amazing some of the crap that I've seen pulled on people. Let alone the lengths the dealers will go to just to make a buck.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

The way I look at it, if I wanted a gun and ammo I'd always buy brandnew from a regular shop even if it cost me the earth. 
I mean, guns are the number one survival tool and if you skimp you're putting the lives of yourself and your family at risk in a SHTF world because the last thing you want to hear when under attack by a zomb gang is the pathetic click of your hammer doing misfire after misfire because you bought a cheap second-hand gun and cheap ammo..


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## Smitty901 (Nov 16, 2012)

Meangreen said:


> The call is to ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) and yes it is to be sure that your able to purchase.


 Witch by the way should be a store on the corner not an agency of the government.
We have had no need for Tax chasers on Alcohol or Tobacco for many many years, as for firearms pretty much all they do it pass them out to criminals they try to find them. Holder 2000 (that we know about) .
Milwaukee just lost some and uses tax money to mess with citizens. They serve no purpose .


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> The way I look at it, if I wanted a gun and ammo I'd always buy brandnew from a regular shop even if it cost me the earth.
> I mean, guns are the number one survival tool and if you skimp you're putting the lives of yourself and your family at risk in a SHTF world because the last thing you want to hear when under attack by a zomb gang is the pathetic click of your hammer doing misfire after misfire because you bought a cheap second-hand gun and cheap ammo..


I'm not buying it, first of all this can happen with new guns also it's not necessarily a phenomenon limited to used firearms, every company can build a lemon or two. Second of all if you know what you're looking for and have some idea how to do a little research you'll know what issues to look for prior to purchase. Third, if you're at all handy and you maintain your firearms then this is a non-issue, if an issue crops up you fix it. Lastly most gun owners are not volume shooters so most used guns on the market haven't had thousands of rounds through them, and if they have you should be able to tell by wear on the moving part and in the bore. If the bore is nice and shiny and the rifling nice and sharp then it's been shot very little, again this comes down to knowing what you're looking for. I've bought lots of used guns over the years and never had any issues with any of them. Guns are fairly simple mechanical objects, there really isn't much that can go wrong with one and anything that does go wrong is generally a pretty simple fix. If you'd be willing to buy a used car which you'd drive every day and thus betting your life and your family's lives on I see no reason why you shouldn't be willing to buy a used firearm since let's face it there's a lot more that can go wrong in a used car than a used gun.

The bottom line is all guns need to be maintained whether they're bought new or used. If you neglect them they may well fail when you need them most. Buying used can often get you a better deal than buying new and if you know what you're looking for can get you the same quality of a new firearm at a fraction of the cost. Also there's an awful lot of firearms that just aren't made anymore so buying used would be your only option in this scenario.

-Infidel


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Infidel said:


> I'm not buying it, first of all this can happen with new guns also it's not necessarily a phenomenon limited to used firearms,
> 
> -Infidel


You should also be taking that newly bought gun to the range so you can get familiar with it. You do not wait until the critical moment to see how well it shoots. A buddy and I both bought a sig 9mm at the same time at a gun shop. There was one digit difference in the serial numbers. His worked perfectly and mine ftf. I polished the ramp and now it works fine. Goes to show you never can tell.

I am not a big fan of buying reloads at a gun show. People have been known to pick up boxes when at a range and then reloading themselves. I have bought both good and bad ammo at a gun show and choose not to do it again.


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## Lucky Jim (Sep 2, 2012)

I bought a brandnew .22 BSA Meteor air rifle from a gunshop in england some years ago but when I got it home I found some dickhead machinist at the factory had drilled the sight-retaining hole on top of the barrel too deep and had gone right through into the bore, leaving a jagged crown of metal in the bore, yet the gun had a "checked by inspector" tag hanging from it!
BSA (British Small Arms) is a long established famous firm but they fouled up bigtime there. I got a refund from the shop.
I know it was only an air rifle but it shows how even brandnew guns can be junk unless we check 'em out good.


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## Infidel (Dec 22, 2012)

inceptor said:


> You should also be taking that newly bought gun to the range so you can get familiar with it. You do not wait until the critical moment to see how well it shoots. A buddy and I both bought a sig 9mm at the same time at a gun shop. There was one digit difference in the serial numbers. His worked perfectly and mine ftf. I polished the ramp and now it works fine. Goes to show you never can tell.
> 
> I am not a big fan of buying reloads at a gun show. People have been known to pick up boxes when at a range and then reloading themselves. I have bought both good and bad ammo at a gun show and choose not to do it again.


You are absolutely right, 500 rounds minimum before I'll bet my life on a firearm. I just saw a posting on another forum regarding this, guy bought a brand new handgun and started carrying it without ever having a chance to take it to a range, couple of months later he finally gets to shoot it and lo and behold it didn't work right. Couldn't fire more than 2 rounds I think without an issue, he learned his lesson with that one.

I wouldn't buy reloads at all, the problem with reloads is you have no idea what the reloader's practices are. He may have a good case of OCD and his reloads would be fine but then again he may be the wing it type of reloader who doesn't double check his loads to make sure there's powder in them or that they are not double charged. Closest I'd get to buying reloads would be re-manufactured ammo which I have bought in the past. If I recall correctly, Black Hills ammo got started selling re-manufactured ammo.

-Infidel


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## Boss Dog (Feb 8, 2013)

I would never buy re-loads from someone I didn't know REAL WELL. 
Buying used firearms is ok if you know how to check them out. Take a bore light, cleaning rag and maybe even a cleaning rod with assortment of swabs and snap caps with you. The best deals out there are used guns in good condition.

Every used gun I have looked at the past few months had been shot and set up without being cleaned. This will hide excessive bore wear and scratches.
I've asked the seller to swab out the bore before buying, sometimes they'll do it, sometimes they claim to have nothing to do it with. If I don't have my kit with me, I walk.

Our local gun shows require the action to be locked for safety (usually zip-ties) and the dealers will use that as an excuse why you cannot check the action. I just smile and pull out my assortment of fresh zip-ties and ask again if I can try it and then tie it back up. If they say no, I walk.


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## jandor123 (Oct 24, 2012)

I would never try to sell a dirty gun. I have sold and bought various guns over the years. Anyone who wants to sell and buy more than once will usually clean their goods, and be fairly honest in their representation.
It's pretty straight forward to examine the goods presented so as to determine the worth of what is being offered.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

just went to one here in Farmington, NM on Saturday, and was impressed with some of the "old,small hard to find stuff", but was shocked at the prices on anything complete and ready to shoot, So I must agree with the posts about buying from a reputable, storefront bussiness.


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## JAGER (Oct 10, 2012)

Lucky Jim said:


> Just an observation but maybe high prices are a sign of good quality?
> I mean, if we bought marked-down guns and ammo dead cheap could we rely on them, especially if maybe they're second-hand, old and unreliable?


Your correct to a point Lucky Jim, but with such a high demand people are jacking up prices trying to make an extra buck for crap rifles. It's a shame I must say. Based off of those prices I will continue to buy my arms in Germany. I love supporting American built firearms, but I can see the point in buying a used S&W MP15 for the same price as buying a new Sig Sauer Desert Patrol. That don't pass Billy Bob test to me.


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