# How to fortify and defend when down hill?



## riverside (Feb 2, 2015)

Hi, my property is bordered by a large river on the Northern, Eastern, and Western sides (its essentially a peninsula), but the Southern edge of my property is against a steep hill (meaning everyone else is above me). What are the best ways to fortify the property with this down hill disadvantage? The property is around 30 acres, so the the border I'm concerned about is probably over 1,000 feet long and includes the road entering the prop.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

If I might ask, how steep of a hill are we talking?


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Is it possible to buy the hill? If not look at the most likely avenues of approach for placement of alarms and booby traps. Also modification of routes to a predetermined kill zone.


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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

Empty land, heavy brush and trees, houses on hill above you? Kinda vague. If you can get onto the property, look for likely cover and concealment and see what vantage it gives looking onto your property, "If I were going to attack my house from here where would I be" kinda thing.


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## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

Move.


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## riverside (Feb 2, 2015)

Moving is not a consideration. The hillside is our property. It's quite steep (ranges between 75% and 150% grade) and is forested (not heavily). At the top is a state Rd and behind that a vertical cliff with houses on it. So no one living where they can just walk out their door and to our place, but they can watch us pretty well. Unfortunately the road above gets lots of traffic. What about a natural fence such as some sort of thorny tall bramble (that won't weed/invade beyond where I plant it)? I'd like wildlife to be able to move in and out, but not humans.


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## riverside (Feb 2, 2015)

I'd also say the neighbors are not threatening. It is more the passerbys I'm worried about.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Can you block the view with strategically placed dense pine?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

riverside said:


> Moving is not a consideration. The hillside is our property. It's quite steep (ranges between 75% and 150% grade) and is forested (not heavily). At the top is a state Rd and behind that a vertical cliff with houses on it. So no one living where they can just walk out their door and to our place, but they can watch us pretty well. Unfortunately the road above gets lots of traffic. What about a natural fence such as some sort of thorny tall bramble (that won't weed/invade beyond where I plant it)? I'd like wildlife to be able to move in and out, but not humans.


Well, if the SHTF and security is a concern, looks like you've found your lookout/overwatch spot, doesn't it?

If you are REALLY worried about it, and you own the hill, then construct a couple of hedgerows with multi-flora rose outside of a row of matting plants on the far one up the hill and something like thorny berries (edible) on the one closer to the house.


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

how far away from house

how many trees... 

can you shoot from top to your house

is there a road up to it


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## LONE WOLF (Dec 12, 2014)

underground tunnel away from the house to some sort of cover. You have to be able to get out of that corner. Or a submarine :


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 25, 2014)

Install range markers on the trees up the hill so if you have to snipe, you have the ranges already laid out.

Determine the best spots that an attacker would use up on the hill and decomission/booby trap them (or ruin them with a wasps nest or a bucket of crap)

The hill is good for shelling you, and sniping from above, but eventually they will wanna come down the hill, d when they do you will be able to predict their general path. Mine it, modify it, or build your defensive plan around ambushing them when they do.

Down here we have something called cat claw, and some Mesquite trees specialize in thorns so big they will easily penetrate boots. Jumping Cactus works great for keeping people out of specific areas. You prolly have poison sumac n such. 

Install and conceal one of those wireless gate sensors up in the trees. You will hear the chime whenever people are messing around up there.

Get a big, ugly pit bull from the pound. There are lotsa those.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Fire?


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

You could also set up a ghillie netting screen..


Dig canals that can double for irrigation, drainage and defence



Drop seeds on the hill.

You can also set up rockwalls.


The more loose rock at steep points will make the terrain dangerous to traverse. You don't want rock slides but smaller rocks gravel you may be able to source from the road siding in shtf

Trip lines too




Grasses burn fast if the are about knee length



A 10 meter canal by 3 m deep along the edge front that is open will keep most casual people out and can act as a fish chokepoint



look up moat defences moats can get very dangerous with pungees etc..

Ghillie Netting at key areas is one but natural vegetation. earth houses green plant roofing will camp you from birds eye



Using a directed beam motion detector or decible sensor may help


Hiding your visibility can go a long way. A no tress passing sign or in shtf minefield toxic waste storage sight sign may help


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

Either a thick patch of bushes. Or loose rocks, although the rocks might be expensive depending on how many. I can't see how steep grades are now.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Defensive positions when downhill must have special consideration for the fact that those above you can see over your normal rock walls. So when you build fortifications at the bottom of a hill they need to be slanted away from the hill, and taller than normal. This provides lots of benefits. 1. If they roll rocks down on you the shape of your bunker will allow them to roll over you more and crush your wall/you less. The slant also compensates for the loss of cover from above. I'll try to draw a picture to demonstrate what I mean.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

It should be relatively easy to block lines of sight with plantings. A hill they can't see you from loses its tactical advantage.


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## MaterielGeneral (Jan 27, 2015)

Camel923 said:


> Is it possible to buy the hill? If not look at the most likely avenues of approach for placement of alarms and booby traps. Also modification of routes to a predetermined kill zone.


AmericanSpecialtyAmmo.com

12 GA perimeter alarm


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

Move I think is the best option. Any wannabe sniper can just lay on the hill and wait to pick you off.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

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## keith9365 (Apr 23, 2014)

I guess like others have said, your best option is an aggressive planting campaign to screen your place coupled with briar thickets on the outskirts (ever walked through a briar thicket hunting rabbits? Hell on earth!) Dont discount that river. I would count on you doing that and use it against you if I were the type to use force to steal from others.


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Get some of these  Chamberlain CWA2000 Wireless Motion Alert System

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ISVJL6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and some rechargeable batteries. A set of rechargeable batteries last me about 3 months so I swap them out every quarter. You don't have to set them all up since the animals can trip them (deer sometimes trip mine) but they are inexpensive enough that tossing a few in the closet won't break the bank. Then if times get bad you can mount them across trails and the driveway after painting them a flat black color. Since each base station can handle up to 8 sensors and each sensor beeps a different number of times I can tell which sensor has been tripped so I know where to look after hearing the beeps.
They can be placed several hundred yards from the house. My furthest one is about 150 yds from the house and down the hill and works fine, your maximum distance may vary depending on your terrain.

While these aren't an active defense they give you warning that you have a visitor. I've used them to discourage people trying to use my dumpster at night. They're surprised when I walk up to them at 11pm and catch the kids dumping beer cans they are trying to hide from their parents.

addition,,, Just looked at these online and see that the pricing has made a huge jump so they may be a little to pricy to keep several spare units buried in the closet.


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## paraquack (Mar 1, 2013)

Plant lots of brush with big barbs.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

You may also consider thistles that spread well like star thistle (also known as goat's head) or nettles


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

riverside said:


> Hi, my property is bordered by a large river on the Northern, Eastern, and Western sides (its essentially a peninsula), but the Southern edge of my property is against a steep hill (meaning everyone else is above me). What are the best ways to fortify the property with this down hill disadvantage? The property is around 30 acres, so the the border I'm concerned about is probably over 1,000 feet long and includes the road entering the prop.


That sounds sorta like the old irresistible force meeting the immoveable obstacle. Think I would spend efforts to make friends with the the suspected possible alleged perps occupying the high ground in case the creek rises Take them a pan of brownies occasionally..jug of home made wine etc. Once the water recedes you should have a some real fertile ground to grow stuff. Yall need to get to be pals.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

Remember that "friends" and "non-threatening neighbors" can quickly become very hostile when they are hungry.


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## riverside (Feb 2, 2015)

So it's about a 300 foot length hillside face with about a 53.33% slope (or more in some areas). You couldn't see someone at the bottom of the hill because of the trees, but you can see farther out from the bottom to where our buildings/house is. From the top of the hill the buildings range from 350 ft to 1,200 ft away.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

Sun tzu.. Take the high ground


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## 8301 (Nov 29, 2014)

Will2 said:


> Sun tzu.. Take the high ground


He can't take the high ground but a 45 degree slope is almost a defensive wall all on it's own. How the heck did you get a driveway built?


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## riverside (Feb 2, 2015)

FoolAmI said:


> He can't take the high ground but a 45 degree slope is almost a defensive wall all on it's own. How the heck did you get a driveway built?


The road was put in a long time ago by the state. It's been banked and shaped to be about a 16% grade, so still steep, but nothing a normal car can't handle. Definitely it is our weak point, but it is a focused opening. We don't have to worry about anyone on our road, since all the land around it is ours our immediate family.

I was thinking when the SHTF of throwing down road spikes, barbed wire rolls, and placing sand barrels to bar road entry, and then keep a close eye on the road. So what i'm trying to focus on now is developing some means of making the hillside nearly impassible. I'll probably go with prickly shrubs/hedge rows as people have suggested.


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## riverside (Feb 2, 2015)

If I plant something like Rosa multiflora, how do you keep it from growing rampant on the property? Will it grow mainly in the area its planted, or will it fan out and take what it can? Any good buffer plants that can be planted on either side of it to control the wild rose if it is invasive? Or perhaps a native North American alternative to this rose?


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'm sorry Jak, I didn't make it that far in Geometry or Calculus. 



Jakthesoldier said:


> [/URL][/IMG]


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

Jakthesoldier said:


> [/URL][/IMG]


a picture is worth 1,000 words... in this case it is worth about 5000 words...

great post


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Slippy said:


> I'm sorry Jak, I didn't make it that far in Geometry or Calculus.


The higher your enemy, the higher or longer your cover must be.

Just think about a wall around your house, if you can't see over it then you are safe, unless someone gets high enough maybe by being on a hill, or the roof of an adjacent building.

When constructing fortifications remember that your body has to be covered. First if you can see me, I can see you. Second just because you can't see me does not mean I can't see you. This goes for all cover. Like hiding behind a car and shooting the bad guy in the foot, or a fat guy hiding behind a tree who's stomach sticks out. All the same line of thinking.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Thanks Man, I was just messin' with! Your drawing looked like a graphical high level math equation! 
I especially liked the napkin!



Jakthesoldier said:


> The higher your enemy, the higher or longer your cover must be.
> 
> Just think about a wall around your house, if you can't see over it then you are safe, unless someone gets high enough maybe by being on a hill, or the roof of an adjacent building.
> 
> When constructing fortifications remember that your body has to be covered. First if you can see me, I can see you. Second just because you can't see me does not mean I can't see you. This goes for all cover. Like hiding behind a car and shooting the bad guy in the foot, or a fat guy hiding behind a tree who's stomach sticks out. All the same line of thinking.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets. Don't become a civil engineer.


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## Jakthesoldier (Feb 1, 2015)

Slippy said:


> Thanks Man, I was just messin' with! Your drawing looked like a graphical high level math equation!
> I especially liked the napkin!


I was on Staff Duty. Lol didn't have access to better materials. I was about to draw on my hand lol


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## tinkerhell (Oct 8, 2014)

any siege weapon like a catapult or a ballista might be relevant.

Also, put a gate on that road.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

Your family owns the land all around, plants briars on the easy walking land. Unless it looks like you've got tons of supplies, why would someone want to navigate such rough terrain in an obvious sitting duck location? Talk of mortars and snipers, get real, if you look like just an ordinary homestead, I wouldn't worry too much. Whatever they do eventually manage to get, they will have to haul up the hill. Passed up more than one buck deer hunting cause didn't feel like dragging one so far uphill. Sabotage your in road, really make it tough for any to get away with much. jmo. Most folks look for the easy /soft target. Where you live may be a blessing in disguise.


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## Will2 (Mar 20, 2013)

riverside said:


> If I plant something like Rosa multiflora, how do you keep it from growing rampant on the property? Will it grow mainly in the area its planted, or will it fan out and take what it can? Any good buffer plants that can be planted on either side of it to control the wild rose if it is invasive? Or perhaps a native North American alternative to this rose?


Note rawgeeed is edible so are rosebuds


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