# The Federalist Papers : No. 46



## Sasquatch (Dec 12, 2014)

From the papers themself.



> Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion, that they would be less able to defend the rights of which they would be in actual possession, than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of their oppressors. Let us rather no longer insult them with the supposition that they can ever reduce themselves to the necessity of making the experiment, by a blind and tame submission to the long train of insidious measures which must precede and produce it. The argument under the present head may be put into a very concise form, which appears altogether conclusive. Either the mode in which the federal government is to be constructed will render it sufficiently dependent on the people, or it will not. On the first supposition, it will be restrained by that dependence from forming schemes obnoxious to their constituents. On the other supposition, it will not possess the confidence of the people, and its schemes of usurpation will be easily defeated by the State governments, who will be supported by the people. On summing up the considerations stated in this and the last paper, they seem to amount to the most convincing evidence, that the powers proposed to be lodged in the federal government are as little formidable to those reserved to the individual States, as they are indispensably necessary to accomplish the purposes of the Union; and that all those alarms which have been sounded, of a meditated and consequential annihilation of the State governments, must, on the most favorable interpretation, be ascribed to the chimerical fears of the authors of them.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

The Founders created the Constitution with the premise that the People had ultimate power over both the Federal and State Governments and James Madison reiterated in #46 that if the Federal Government attempted to encroach upon the States, that the States (through the people) could ban together to thwart the invasive attempts of the Feds.

The original "collective" intent of the Constitution was freaking genius. We The People have (unknowingly in many cases) have strived almost daily to destroy it.

We The People have been stupid.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

This was true when the constitution was in its original form. The 17th amendment placed the fate of the Senate into the hands of the citizens. The state governments no longer had a voice in Congress.
Also in 1913, the 16th amendment allowed Congress to directly tax individuals and businesses of the states, bypassing the state government.

The adoption of these two amendments, along with the oath of allegiance demanded from the Southern states during the reconstruction period after the Civil War and the Federal Reserve destroyed the constitutional republic.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

I say _The Federalist Papers_ should be required reading for everybody.

Especially a very select few self-appointed Constitution experts who seem to enjoy their 16 minutes of fame.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> The Founders created the Constitution with the premise that the People had ultimate power over both the Federal and State Governments and James Madison reiterated in #46 that if the Federal Government attempted to encroach upon the States, that the States (through the people) could ban together to thwart the invasive attempts of the Feds.
> 
> The original "collective" intent of the Constitution was freaking genius. We The People have (unknowingly in many cases) have strived almost daily to destroy it.
> 
> We The People have been stupid.


We didn't strive to destroy it. Ineptness among some state governments left some Senate seats open from time to time, and the answer to that was to throw all the power into the hands of the states' citizens.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

The constitution has been attacked since it was signed, but never more so then the last 50 years or so. It appears "We the People" could not keep this once great republic. The biggest culprit in all of this is our education system. We turn out socialist by the hundreds of thousands each spring and I don't see the trend coming to an end. Indoctrinated from kindergarten on, these young mindless sheep will represent the final nail in this country's coffin.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> We didn't strive to destroy it. Ineptness among some state governments left some Senate seats open from time to time, and the answer to that was to throw all the power into the hands of the states' citizens.


Yes,

And I believe that the Founders and citizens of that time saw Liberty and Security as complimenting each other. I also believe that over time (due to some of which Denton points out above) that the definitions began to blur and the people voted for regulations that created false security and lost their Freedoms. Given our history we are on an ultimate path where the destination is zero freedom and zero security...

Hope that makes sense.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Slippy said:


> Yes,
> 
> And I believe that the Founders and citizens of that time saw Liberty and Security as complimenting each other. I also believe that over time (due to some of which Denton points out above) that the definitions began to blur and the people voted for regulations that created false security and lost their Freedoms. Given our history *we are on an ultimate path where the destination is zero freedom and zero security...*
> 
> Hope that makes sense.


Then what do you propose, Sir? What actions are *you* going to take, what do you recommend* we* do?


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> Yes,
> 
> And I believe that the Founders and citizens of that time saw Liberty and Security as complimenting each other. I also believe that over time (due to some of which Denton points out above) that the definitions began to blur and the people voted for regulations that created false security and lost their Freedoms. Given our history we are on an ultimate path where the destination is zero freedom and zero security...
> 
> Hope that makes sense.


Ah, regulations, you mention!
Regulations are created by agencies, and those agencies are created by Congress. Those agencies create regulations that infringe on our freedom while our Congressmen respond to our letters of consternation by saying, "Hey, what can we do? It's those agencies doing these things and not those of us in Congress!"
Nothing less than an end run around the constitution.


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I’m afraid the brainwashed will have to learn a hard lesson when their points of view and opinions are no longer relevant to the world elite.....hopefully I won’t be around to see it, but I’ve been warning my grandchildren, I pray they are listening.....


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

MountainGirl said:


> Then what do you propose, Sir? What actions are *you* going to take, what do you recommend* we* do?


Keep on making Pikes...


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Denton said:


> ...
> The adoption of these two amendments, along with the oath of allegiance demanded from the Southern states during the reconstruction period after the Civil War and the Federal Reserve *destroyed the constitutional republic*.





Prepared One said:


> It appears "We the People" could not keep this once great republic. ... these young mindless sheep will represent the *final nail in this country's coffin*.





Slippy said:


> *Keep on making Pikes..*.


So...what I'm hearing, then, in this thread and others, is basically it's over, lost cause, and all we can do is fortify our own positions & maybe join up w/3% to react - if and when.

Well, hell. Guess I can stop looking for realistic options and just ride this train to it's end.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

MountainGirl said:


> So...what I'm hearing, then, in this thread and others, is basically it's over, lost cause, and all we can do is fortify our own positions & maybe join up w/3% to react - if and when.
> 
> Well, hell. Guess I can stop looking for realistic options and just ride this train to it's end.


One option is to buy a DeLorean*, outfit it with a Flux Capacitor, set the date for the late 18th century and crank it up to 88 MPH.

*Yes, you can still buy a brand-spankin' new DeLorean today.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

A start would be the repeal of the 17 and 16 amendments. That is one fight that would be bitterly opposed by the swamp by any means necessary. And yes I mean what we are all thinking worst case the swamp would do.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> So...what I'm hearing, then, in this thread and others, is basically it's over, lost cause, and all we can do is fortify our own positions & maybe join up w/3% to react - if and when.
> 
> Well, hell. Guess I can stop looking for realistic options and just ride this train to it's end.
> 
> View attachment 72922


It's not that it's a lost cause. I will continue to vote conservative in hopes we can regain this republic and make the argument loud and clearly to all I know. I am paying particular attention to the local elections. The current alligators in the cesspool are a lost cause. The new local guys are the answer.

I am a practical man and I see the handwriting on the wall, that does not mean I am giving up without a fight. I have fought many battles where I knew the outcome and swung anyways. So, I will continue to pull as many peoples heads as I can out of the sand, or their ass, as the case may be.

Can we turn it around? I would like to think so. However, looking at the multiple threats facing this country, both from within and abroad, and looking at history itself, suggests it's going to be an uphill battle.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Prepared One said:


> It's not that it's a lost cause. I will continue to vote conservative in hopes we can regain this republic and make the argument loud and clearly to all I know. I am paying particular attention to the local elections. The current alligators in the cesspool are a lost cause. The new local guys are the answer.
> 
> I am a practical man and I see the handwriting on the wall, that does not mean I am giving up without a fight. I have fought many battles where I knew the outcome and swung anyways. So, I will continue to pull as many peoples heads as I can out of the sand, or their ass, as the case may be.
> 
> Can we turn it around? I would like to think so. However, looking at the multiple threats facing this country, both from within and abroad, and looking at history itself, suggests it's going to be an uphill battle.


Local level resistance might be the key here. What give me the most hope, these days, strangely comes out of California....

More California Cities Seek to Defy 'Sanctuary State' as Revolt Spreads | Breitbart



> More California cities may consider defying the state's "sanctuary state" laws, after the city council of Los Alamitos passed an ordinance defying the state's controversial new legislation preventing cooperation with federal immigration authorities.
> ...
> Proponents of the Los Alamitos legislation argued that *the state was forcing local officials to defy their oath to the Constitution*, and that the new ordinance was faithful to the rule of law.


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

MountainGirl said:


> Local level resistance might be the key here. What give me the most hope, these days, strangely comes out of California....
> 
> More California Cities Seek to Defy 'Sanctuary State' as Revolt Spreads | Breitbart


Local politicians and in particular, school boards. We need to change what these kids are being taught, or should I say indoctrinated. If we keep turning out socialist lambs then we loose the numbers game and in effect, we loose the country. Lot's of balls in the air and I don't think we are going to prevent all from hitting the ground. Be prepared to deal with the fallout.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Local people making local decisions. Great idea. This country is too populous to work with the government we have.

https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-American-Union-Twenty-First-Century/dp/1589809572


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

MountainGirl said:


> So...what I'm hearing, then, in this thread and others, is basically it's over, lost cause, and all we can do is fortify our own positions & maybe join up w/3% to react - if and when.
> 
> Well, hell. Guess I can stop looking for realistic options and just ride this train to it's end.
> 
> View attachment 72922


Only 4% of the population of the thirteen colonies agreed , fought and probably most died fighting the British, if the same percentage today rose up, that would be about 14 million people, pretty significant, and would definitely be noticed, but, one at a time won't work, we ALL have to be in it together, and nope, I haven't given up yet......


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

rstanek said:


> Only 4% of the population of the thirteen colonies agreed , fought and probably most died fighting the British, if the same percentage today rose up, that would be about 14 million people, pretty significant, and would definitely be noticed, but, one at a time won't work, we ALL have to be in it together, and nope, I haven't given up yet......


I agree. That said, and yes - there were Brit troops and Loyalists who resisted/fought - but do you really think the outcome 250 yrs ago would have been the same if King George had access to every word spoken or typed by patriots, cameras on every corner, identifications of every gun owner, and a socialized citizen contingent to make sure that any armed group - even for a peaceful gathering - is prohibited?

I also agree that 'one at a time' wont work. Please tell me how the 14 million, or even the 5 million NRA members, "come together".


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

MountainGirl said:


> ...
> 
> I also agree that 'one at a time' wont work. Please tell me how the 14 million, or even the 5 million NRA members, "come together".


OOOOOH ME! OOOOOH ME! Can I answer this one! Please Mr Kotter!

The NRA members will never come together. Let that sink in for a minute.

Why? Because way too many of them join the NRA for superficial reasons and have no freakin' clue what the 2nd Amendment stands for. Too many NRA members do it for the free range bag and the sticker on their truck next to the Yeti sticker and Ducks Unlimited sticker. Too many have never bought a firearm with defense of a tyrannical government on their mind. Too many of them are clueless and have reared clueless offspring.

Too many NRA members think its about hunting and conservation and that's cool, I get it but it ain't gonna breed 3 %'ers.

Too many NRA members are sheeple and continue to buy into politicians who give a good speech, get elected and vote democrap...and these sheeple don't say a damn thing about it.

I know these sheeple, I lived near them, worked with them, went to church and sporting events and casual dinners with them, my kids played with their kids, my wife went to Bible Study with their wives and one day, years ago me and Mrs Slippy woke up and said "these sheeple are idiots and deep down they hate FREEDOM"

So we bailed on them and built our version of Utopia. And began to do things contrary to the status quo.

The Republic is lost. Only a RESET will return it to the greatest form of government ever created. The one that was born from GREAT MEN in 1776...


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Slippy said:


> OOOOOH ME! OOOOOH ME! Can I answer this one! Please Mr Kotter!
> 
> The NRA members will never come together. Let that sink in for a minute.
> 
> ...


Sure Horshack, you can answer anytime you want! Too bad it wasn't an answer, lol. It did moreso prove my point though. Say you're right, and NRA folks are feckless. Okay. Let's agree on that. You say the Republic is lost and talk about a RESET.

Gonna do it with Pikes? I dont think so. So my question stands. Tell me how you think this RESET could play out - given the current conditions in the first part of my post:



MountainGirl said:


> I agree. That said, and yes - there were Brit troops and Loyalists who resisted/fought - but do you really think the outcome 250 yrs ago would have been the same if King George had access to every word spoken or typed by patriots, cameras on every corner, identifications of every gun owner, and a socialized citizen contingent to make sure that any armed group - even for a peaceful gathering - is prohibited?


EDIT TO ADD: I see you started a thread! Yay! I'll take your OP over there for the answer to this...unless you have more to say about the RESET.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

MountainGirl said:


> Sure Horshack, you can answer anytime you want! Too bad it wasn't an answer, lol. It did moreso prove my point though. Say you're right, and NRA folks are feckless. Okay. Let's agree on that. You say the Republic is lost and talk about a RESET.
> 
> Gonna do it with Pikes? I dont think so. So my question stands. Tell me how you think this RESET could play out - given the current conditions in the first part of my post:


I joke about Pikes but the Pikes are real. Venture down my road post SHTF and if I am still alive and not too old to do so, Heads will be upon Pikes signalling to all who have ill intent; Venture Down This Road and Bad Things May Happen.

THAT is what I do and will do.

I care not one ioda what most of these feckless sheeple think or do. My United State of Slippy is real and while it may not be as isolated as yours, it will suffice my simple needs.

I stopped voting and will not vote again until everyone of the traitors in congress are removed en masse. THAT is the reset that I long for.

2 generations. That is my prediction. I, and you @MountainGirl will most likely be dust by then. But 2 generations will yield a total reset which may mean the return to the Great Republic or the demise of the Greatest Country EVER.

We may or shall see...

I shit you not.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure,” Jefferson wrote in a letter to William S. Smith, a diplomatic official in London, on November 13, 1787.

Evidently the liberty tree is dying for failure of this to occur. 1861-65 was the last good blood letting and that only strengthened the Federal government.


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

Slippy said:


> I joke about Pikes but the Pikes are real. Venture down my road post SHTF and if I am still alive and not too old to do so, Heads will be upon Pikes signalling to all who have ill intent; Venture Down This Road and Bad Things May Happen.
> 
> THAT is what I do and will do.
> 
> ...


Respect.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Slippy said:


> I joke about Pikes but the Pikes are real. Venture down my road post SHTF and if I am still alive and not too old to do so, Heads will be upon Pikes signalling to all who have ill intent; Venture Down This Road and Bad Things May Happen.
> 
> THAT is what I do and will do.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking the political shift isn't going to be as slow as you might think. We've seen sudden and bloody political shift occur since the 1900's. The shifts were preceded by cultural and political markers, and I think we've been witnessing markers that should indicate to the observant that winds of bad change are blowing.

I believe this will occur during your natural life.

This, I shit _you_ not.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Denton said:


> I'm thinking the political shift isn't going to be as slow as you might think. We've seen sudden and bloody political shift occur since the 1900's. The shifts were preceded by cultural and political markers, and I think we've been witnessing markers that should indicate to the observant that winds of bad change are blowing.
> 
> I believe this will occur during your natural life.
> 
> This, I shit _you_ not.


You may be right...


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## rstanek (Nov 9, 2012)

I think what is being said here is , the idiot liberals are pushing, just not hard enough yet, it’s one thing to step on a bees nest, it’s another to deliberately kick it, it’s just a guess, bottom line, to effectively resist and reset, it takes organization and planning, don’t see that happening, of course we are all waiting for someone else to start it, someone has to be first......this is a huge first step.....


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## MountainGirl (Oct 29, 2017)

rstanek said:


> I think what is being said here is , the idiot liberals are pushing, just not hard enough yet, it's one thing to step on a bees nest, it's another to deliberately kick it, it's just a guess, bottom line, to effectively resist and reset, it takes organization and planning, don't see that happening, of course we are all waiting for someone else to start it, someone has to be first......this is a huge first step.....


That's a pretty good guess. 
And until they 'kick' the bees nest nationally - I doubt that huge first step would be taken. 
And I think they know that. 
Drip, drip, drip.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Kind of dry to listen to, but there's some good points here.


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