# Side arm for bugging out



## budgetprepp-n

Most preppers that live in a urban or rural area have a bug out bag just in case they need it.
Something to consider is what side arm your taking. How about a 22LR for small game and 
or what ever you might need a 22LR for. And we all know a 22LR is better than no gun. But space
and weight are something that is really important in a bug out bag. So what a conversion gun?
Like a 1911 45ACP with a 22LR conversion kit. I know I know not everyone likes the 1911 
but there are plenty of pistols that come with a 22LR conversion kit.

A conversion kit doesn't weight much or take up much space. And even a brick (500 rounds)
is not to bad weight wise. Try carrying 500 rounds of 45ACP or even 9mm. 
A conversion gun would be like having two guns in one. And if you run short of the big
ammo you would have the 22LR to fall back on for personal protection -better than nothing-

So what do you think would it be worth the extra weight and space for a conversion kit
for your side arm and 22LR ammo?


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## StratMaster

I am thinking I would seriously review my bugout plan If I thought I was going to need 500+ rounds to get there.


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## sideKahr

Wouldn't you want to bug out quick and quiet? What are you going to do, hunt for rabbits on someone else's property? I'd carry some lightweight dehydrated food instead. I like the conversion kit for an I'm Never Coming Home bag.


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## Sasquatch

If I have to bug out all of my guns are going with me until I can't carry them anymore.


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## Camel923

For me a BOB or GHB is similar due to the distances involved. We are talking about 72 hours. I plan on being able to carry enough dehydrated food to last that long. My weapons are primarily for self defense. A sidearm's requirements would be reliability and the punch to put down an in close aggressor. A 1911 or a Glock 21 would be sufficient to me. Long arm for reliability and punch would be an AK folder variant such as an AMD-65. I do carry yo-yos for fishing and snares for small game for unforeseen circumstances. They are quiet and can work while I am doing something else if necessary. I would prefer a shotgun for small game but I think given what else I am carrying that would be too much. An AR-7 would be a good choice as a small game getter in 22. Its light, self contained, floats, easy to pack and water proof. I think it would be easier to hit game at a greater distance with a rifle than a pistol plus your pistol is always in a self defense configuration for the unexpected.


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## Smitty901

Real world if you bug out how much can you carry. Not nearly enough and no where near what you think you can. If you Bug out you have to give up a lot. It is always this or that but stuff's gotta go. Dam problem soldiers fight all of the time.


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## StratMaster

Smitty901 said:


> Real world if you bug out how much can you carry. Not nearly enough and no where near what you think you can. If you Bug out you have to give up a lot. It is always this or that but stuff's gotta go. Dam problem soldiers fight all of the time.


That's a fact.
I remember being a newbie once... lo these many decades ago.
Put together a WONDERFUL BOB, everything one might need and all the comforts. I put it on and walked around the block a couple times, which was enough to begin schooling me LOL. I wasn't even carrying a firearm, ammo, or water and it was HEAVY already! Should have called it a WORNOUTBAG.
I was young and strong then too. No longer.


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## jim-henscheli

I like ke the idea of the conversion kits for the range, but I feel that if I have to bug out, I do not want to compromise my self defense tools, but at the same time, I must be ready to take game as it presents itself. So I plane to carry my 9mm for self defense, and a separate.22mag/lr revolver for game, single action colt, picked it up a few months ago, truly a wonderful gun!


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## RedLion

I put more thought into my GHB for if I need to walk home from work. My two handgun choices for it are my Kel-Tec PMR30 .22wmr with four loaded 30 round mags and an extra 50 rounds of ammo or my M57 7.62x25 with five loaded mags and an extra 50 rounds of ammo. Both are good choices for me.


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## SOCOM42

If I had to I would use a Ruger MK1? 4 inch BBL stainless job.

IF a nationwide event aka WROL, I would crank out a suppressor for it.

Would also add a bolt lock to keep it closed, use subsonic or standard vel.

It would have a red dot sighted over the can.

I have a S&W mod. 63, 4 inch that I carried in my GHB when I was on the road around the northeast.

It is an early one from the 70's, hammer and trigger are stainless along with the rear sight.

Great little survival gun, had 200 rounds with it and a bottle of PL-S.

Also carried the AR-7 that I have posted here with it.

Taught my daughter to shoot with it when she was seven.


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## Smitty901

StratMaster said:


> That's a fact.
> I remember being a newbie once... lo these many decades ago.
> Put together a WONDERFUL BOB, everything one might need and all the comforts. I put it on and walked around the block a couple times, which was enough to begin schooling me LOL. I wasn't even carrying a firearm, ammo, or water and it was HEAVY already! Should have called it a WORNOUTBAG.
> I was young and strong then too. No longer.


 That was a big part of Army moving to the M16 and latter the M4. The m14 was about 13 pounds and the ammo a lot heavier. The M4 got it down to 7 pound range. Don't sound like a lot but it all adds up. CO and I had friendly argument about packing list a few times.


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## 6811

Camel923 said:


> For me a BOB or GHB is similar due to the distances involved. We are talking about 72 hours. I plan on being able to carry enough dehydrated food to last that long. My weapons are primarily for self defense. A sidearm's requirements would be reliability and the punch to put down an in close aggressor. A 1911 or a Glock 21 would be sufficient to me. Long arm for reliability and punch would be an AK folder variant such as an AMD-65. I do carry yo-yos for fishing and snares for small game for unforeseen circumstances. They are quiet and can work while I am doing something else if necessary. I would prefer a shotgun for small game but I think given what else I am carrying that would be too much. An AR-7 would be a good choice as a small game getter in 22. Its light, self contained, floats, easy to pack and water proof. I think it would be easier to hit game at a greater distance with a rifle than a pistol plus your pistol is always in a self defense configuration for the unexpected.


This makes a lot of sense.... Good post


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## phrogman

I plan to carry my XD45 Tactical, my teenage son will carry a XD9 Service and my youngest will carry an SR22.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Slippy

Weight is really not an issue for me regarding my BOB or GHB. The illegal ******* family that I have on retainer to carry my stuff rarely if ever complain. :vs_wave:


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## NotTooProudToHide

I guess I would have to see the situation and the resources I had available at the time. If I was just trying to get home it would be a 9mm or .380 depending on what I was carrying. If I was leaving home I'd like to think that I would have some kind of transportation in which I would bring all that I could. If I was walking I don't think I would waste the weight on a handgun, I'd rather have more ammunition for whatever long gun I chose to bring with me.


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## hawgrider

Silly goose...
a handgun is only good to fight your way back to a rifle.


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## Prepared One

Over time I have rethought my BOB and have pared it way down in weight. No frills, just what is needed. I will carry the one AR and a full capacity 9MM. Strictly defensive in nature although if the opportunity presents itself the AR will do in a hunt. Wife will carry the 9mm carbine ( Scorpion ) and her 9mm and all the booze she can get in her BOB. :tango_face_grin:

I should point out bugging out is a last resort for me.


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## TGus

Learn to trap. Here's my reasons:

1) You're bugging out, not going hunting. Those 2 things are largely mutually exclusive.

2) You can set your traps at dusk and catch food while you're sleeping, since most trap animals are nocturnal.

3) Do you really want to be firing a gun while you're bugging-out as unobtrusively as possible?

4) All you probably need for protection while bugging-out is a side arm.

5) A long-arm is unnecessary weight.

So, if you have long-guns and so much ammunition for them, and you want to keep them, leave them with a trusted neighbor, or better yet, cache them somewhere.


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## preppermyA

I'd take the same sidearm I carry every day. It's sitting on my belt as I type.


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## gyro_cfi

preppermyA said:


> I'd take the same sidearm I carry every day. It's sitting on my belt as I type.


Same here, only 5 mile walk. My 9mm appendix under my shirt, spare mag in the pocket, and Maxpedition Fat Boy over the shoulder.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## jimb1972

If I bug out it will hopefully be in my truck since I have 40 miles to go. Either way I will have a rifle.


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## jimb1972

RedLion said:


> I put more thought into my GHB for if I need to walk home from work. My two handgun choices for it are my Kel-Tec PMR30 .22wmr with four loaded 30 round mags and an extra 50 rounds of ammo or my M57 7.62x25 with five loaded mags and an extra 50 rounds of ammo. Both are good choices for me.


7.62x25 is no joke, I have fired it over my chronograph and Romanian surplus runs around 1600 fps out of my CZ52, a hair faster than .327 federal. With a hp bullet you could take a deer at moderate ranges or penetrate anything short of ballistic plates, soft body armor might not stop the fmj ammo.


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## MisterMills357

budgetprepp-n said:


> And if you run short of the big ammo you would have the 22LR to fall back on for personal protection -better than nothing-
> 
> So what do you think would it be worth the extra weight and space for a conversion kit for your side arm and 22LR ammo?
> 
> View attachment 74225


Great idea, to convert to a .22 for squirrels and such, and yes it would be better than nothing for self defense. But, I have shot cats with a .22 LR, at point blank. 
And they ran away yowling, a .22 is a weak gun, unless you are an excellent shot, or you aim for the brain. And that would go for humans as much as animals. IMHO:tango_face_smile:


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## The Resister

How many here actually load up all their gear and ammo and then walk a distance with it every few weeks. That tells you a lot about what you would ditch if you had to actually carry it with you.

Additionally, if you bug out and times are really that bad, where are you bugging out to? What happens to your weapons and preps? You don't really have to answer, but be thinking about it.


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## Real Old Man

The Resister said:


> How many here actually load up all their gear and ammo and then walk a distance with it every few weeks. That tells you a lot about what you would ditch if you had to actually carry it with you.
> 
> Additionally, if you bug out and times are really that bad, where are you bugging out to? What happens to your weapons and preps? You don't really have to answer, but be thinking about it.


First, I'm not bugging out. Worst case, I'll be bugging home. That said 7 days out of two weeks I walk at least half the distance back home every other day with a similar load and clothing. If I'm really lucky I'll draw one of the department's sidearms. If not there's always the .22. How far, door to door it's right at 13 miles. Yes, I have a dream commute.

No, it's not in a big city. with just under 20,ooo folks in a county of 500 square miles it doesn't get any more rural than this.


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## patrioteer

I do keep a lightweight handgun in my bag, but my bag is probably 1/2 the size of most. Plus my wife has a small emergency bag and my children each have a small bag too. I live a good size town and have some resources at my home, in my office, where my wife works, and a couple other places. I would rather have some reliable caches of supplies than try and carry all that stuff with me. When I was in my 20's I had a solid 75# bag stuffed with gear and supplies, each 1/2 decade since I have found lighter weight replacements or decided I could do without this or that. A few wire snares weigh a lot less than a 22 conversion kit. However we each live, prep, and survive according to what we know and what we are capable of. So to each his own.


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## The Resister

patrioteer said:


> I do keep a lightweight handgun in my bag, but my bag is probably 1/2 the size of most. Plus my wife has a small emergency bag and my children each have a small bag too. I live a good size town and have some resources at my home, in my office, where my wife works, and a couple other places. I would rather have some reliable caches of supplies than try and carry all that stuff with me. When I was in my 20's I had a solid 75# bag stuffed with gear and supplies, each 1/2 decade since I have found lighter weight replacements or decided I could do without this or that. A few wire snares weigh a lot less than a 22 conversion kit. However we each live, prep, and survive according to what we know and what we are capable of. So to each his own.


First, an interesting note:

The very first online newsletter of the Militia of Georgia was called The Patrioteer.

We used to train in this program called S.P.I.K.E. that was started by Lt. Col. Bo Gritz (a former Green Beret and CIA operative.) On my first FTX, a former Ranger summoned me over to his truck and asked to try his ruck on. I bent over double. While all of us were humping a heavy 60 pound ruck, this guy carries one that is 90 pounds!

I always stuck with sixty, but as time goes on, like yourself, weight is an issue that you consider and begin dropping everything that not absolutely necessary. My Bug Out Bag is pretty hefty, so I have both that (which goes with me everywhere my car goes once I leave the city I live in) AND a mission specific ruck should we ever be called on to be citizen militia types.


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## The Resister

jimb1972 said:


> 7.62x25 is no joke, I have fired it over my chronograph and Romanian surplus runs around 1600 fps out of my CZ52, a hair faster than .327 federal. With a hp bullet you could take a deer at moderate ranges or penetrate anything short of ballistic plates, soft body armor might not stop the fmj ammo.


Did you know that anything under level 3 body armor can be penetrated by the CZ 52? I used to work for a company that sold military and police supplies. One guy at the company took a level 2 vest, hung it on the wall and shot it with a CZ 52 using ammo that was marked for SMG use - it had no other markings on the boxes.) the bullet went through the front and back, lodging in the sheet-rock wall behind it. The vest had wording on the inside that it was not guaranteed against the 7.62 x 25.

BTW, they use the same roller block technology H&K uses, so these are really great guns for the money. You might need a 'smith to put you some sights on it, but if you can live with the lower mag capacity, you've got a great gun at half what a modern weapon costs.


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## bigwheel

budgetprepp-n said:


> Most preppers that live in a urban or rural area have a bug out bag just in case they need it.
> Something to consider is what side arm your taking. How about a 22LR for small game and
> or what ever you might need a 22LR for. And we all know a 22LR is better than no gun. But space
> and weight are something that is really important in a bug out bag. So what a conversion gun?
> Like a 1911 45ACP with a 22LR conversion kit. I know I know not everyone likes the 1911
> but there are plenty of pistols that come with a 22LR conversion kit.
> 
> A conversion kit doesn't weight much or take up much space. And even a brick (500 rounds)
> is not to bad weight wise. Try carrying 500 rounds of 45ACP or even 9mm.
> A conversion gun would be like having two guns in one. And if you run short of the big
> ammo you would have the 22LR to fall back on for personal protection -better than nothing-
> 
> So what do you think would it be worth the extra weight and space for a conversion kit
> for your side arm and 22LR ammo?
> 
> View attachment 74225


No rational person could eat by trying to hit small game with a pistol. Tried it for several decades just practicing up on an end of the world scenario type deal. Get a grip. The pistol could be better put to use to hijack the beanie weenies from your neighbors. lol. Yall drive me total crazy sometimes.


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## StratMaster

bigwheel said:


> No rational person could eat by trying to hit small game with a pistol. Tried it for several decades just practicing up on an end of the world scenario type deal. Get a grip. The pistol could be better put to use to hijack the beanie weenies from your neighbors. lol. Yall drive me total crazy sometimes.


Beanie weenies? Can't we hit some back yards where they're grilling up some steaks?


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## The Resister

bigwheel said:


> No rational person could eat by trying to hit small game with a pistol. Tried it for several decades just practicing up on an end of the world scenario type deal. Get a grip. The pistol could be better put to use to hijack the beanie weenies from your neighbors. lol. Yall drive me total crazy sometimes.


I'm only sorry this board don't have an icon for funny. That was funny no matter who you are.


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## yooper_sjd

The Resister said:


> I'm only sorry this board don't have an icon for funny. That was funny no matter who you are.


You mean like these: :vs_lol::vs_laugh:


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## The Tourist

With all of the hoopla over black rifles, I still think something in .22LR would be a better choice.

We're trying to avoid trouble, not get immersed in it. And a .22LR is great for small game. That, and you can carry hundreds of rounds.

I have a Ruger 10/22, and I'm hoping to buy a break-down model when funds permit. I think taking to the woods like Rambo is going to bring more danger to you than just applying survival skills to protect yourself and those under your care.


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## AquaHull

The Resister said:


> I'm only sorry this board don't have an icon for funny. That was funny no matter who you are.












Ruger Charger Takedown 500 rounds of ammo


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## mdauben

hawgrider said:


> Silly goose...
> a handgun is only good to fight your way back to a rifle.


In a bug-out situation, though, that rifle might be 72 hours away. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Denton

mdauben said:


> In a bug-out situation, though, that rifle might be 72 hours away.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


In a get-home situation, sure, but not in a bug-out situation. In a bug-out, I wouldn't leave home without the rifle! :vs_shocked:


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## hawgrider

mdauben said:


> In a bug-out situation, though, that rifle might be 72 hours away.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


I stand by my statement-



> Silly goose...
> a handgun is only good to fight your way back to a rifle.


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## PrepTrack

Having a sidearm is an asset and a liability. I recommend getting something compact, concealable, and common.

Compact doesn't just mean a small profile, but also fairly durable. Maintenance is one thing, but if you drop it you don't want to have a useless hunk of metal that needs repair.

Concealable is obvious. If you are bugging out, a rifle sticking off your back makes you a threat and a target. Better to supplement your defense with a melee weapon like a rod, baton, or blade. Only draw your concealed weapon when absolutely obvious.

Common means a firearm with a very common caliber of ammo. You can't lug around boxes of ammo, especially when bugging out. Maybe a couple mags, but not much more. Should you need to expend ammo, you need to replenish. I recommend in US metro municipalities to look at 9mm and .45ACP ammo as those are most common for civilian and law enforcement.

If you want more info, check out a book I picked upon Amazon (forgive its typos) called *Urban Survivalist*. Note: it almost entirely leans on the notion of bugging out if you live in a city, which is more prudent than bugging in.


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## Smitty901

Nice part of having 1 hand gun and 1 rifle nothing to pick from. Down side extremely limited options. I prefer options.


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## okey

You'll need a real fighting rifle on your assault sling, so the pistol belongs out of sight, out of the way of the pack and the rifle, out of the elements and easily reached. That means a fannypack, worn at the navel. or a front pants pocket holster. Given that everyone is going to have a fighting rifle within a week of shtf (or be dead) the handgun isn't going to amount to a hill of beans, other than for a short term, local sort of thing. The main way to get food will be to trap and spear cattle, at night, walk off a mile or so from the gutpile with a hindquarter, and convert it to jerky and get it buried safely, in plastic drus.. Repeat a few times. Ditto with 100 lb sacks of grain. Have NVD goggles, and dont be out and about during daylight hours,and you'll be 10x as likely to last a while. I have to laugh at the idea that it's shtf and people "think" that there's going to be any rules, or laws, or "getting together". The people you "think" are going to band with you are the first ones who'll shoot you in the back.


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## Gunn

In my GHB I have 6 meals and several of those high calorie "Candy Bars" designed to go in a GHB or BOG. For protection I have a Glock 22 and a Kel-Tec Sub 2000. Both pistol and carbine use the same magazine. For water I have a Lifestraw and one of those squeeze bottle filters. If I have to leave home and go to the BOL, that is a horse of a different color.


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## okey

get home situation is likely to mean you can't show armament, and I'm almost never all that far from home. When I am, the wife is with me, so there'd be no reason to go home. Instead, head for the BOB. The gear and food shouldn't be at your home. It should be buried near the BOL, in several caches. Just as the MOVE people, the Branch Davidians, or Randy weave if you want all your stuff in your home! Your home can easily be the LAST place you want to be or go.


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## NotTooProudToHide

My logic remains the same as the first time I posted. It's highly situational, are we talking about hitting the road because there's hundreds of thousands brain eating zombies outside or is this a temporary measure due to some natural disaster? I really don't see too many scenarios forcing me to leave my house which I would plan to bug in at in most situations however gods honest truth I really believe my shield 9mm would cover me in almost every possible situation. I'm not worried about having 100's of rounds immediately available, I'm looking to avoid a fight. Its extremely concealable so I don't appear to be a threat. It is sufficient to handle all realistic threats both 2 legged and 4 legged in my particular geographic area. Perhaps most important of all its small and light enough to be a back up gun should the situation be so dire that I've decided that I need a long gun as a primary weapon.


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