# Self-defense Fail



## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

I truly believe that this is an example of how not to protect yourself. :tango_face_wink:



> SC: Homeowner Fired 16 rounds, unsure of any hits





> He said after hearing someone in the living room, he crept up the stairs to get his pistol, and returned to find a black man standing in his living room.
> 
> The man said the burglar chased him into his back yard and started to reach near his waistline. That's when the homeowner said he felt threatened and fired around 16 rounds at the man, unsure if he hit him.


York County homeowner shoots at intruder - | WBTV Charlotte

GUN WATCH: SC: Homeowner Fired 16 rounds, unsure of any hits


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

Was all that necessary? Not familiar with their laws. In Alabama, he could have dropped him in the house as soon as the intruder took a step forward.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

(a) A person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he or she may use a degree of force which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose.  A person may use deadly physical force, and is legally presumed to be justified in using deadly physical force in self-defense or the defense of another person pursuant to subdivision (4), if the person reasonably believes that another person is:
(1) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force.
(2) Using or about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling while committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling.
(3) Committing or about to commit a kidnapping in any degree, assault in the first or second degree, burglary in any degree, robbery in any degree, forcible rape, or forcible sodomy.
(4) Using or about to use physical force against an owner, employee, or other person authorized to be on business property when the business is closed to the public while committing or attempting to commit a crime involving death, serious physical injury, robbery, kidnapping, rape, sodomy, or a crime of a sexual nature involving a child under the age of 12.
(5) In the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or has unlawfully and forcefully entered, a dwelling, residence, business property, or occupied vehicle, or federally licensed nuclear power facility, or is in the process of sabotaging or attempting to sabotage a federally licensed nuclear power facility, or is attempting to remove, or has forcefully removed, a person against his or her will from any dwelling, residence, business property, or occupied vehicle when the person has a legal right to be there, and provided that the person using the deadly physical force knows or has reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act is occurring.  The legal presumption that a person using deadly physical force is justified to do so pursuant to this subdivision does not apply if:
a. The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner or lessee, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person;
- See more at: http://codes.findlaw.com/al/title-13a-criminal-code/al-code-sect-13a-3-23.html#sthash.KInQLf1A.dpuf

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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> Was all that necessary? Not familiar with their laws. In Alabama, he could have dropped him in the house as soon as the intruder took a step forward.


Same here in MN. Just being in a home without permission is a felony in MN and reason enough to use deadly force if you feel threatened.


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## Denton (Sep 18, 2012)

RedLion said:


> Same here in MN. Just being in a home without permission is a felony in MN and reason enough to use deadly force if you feel threatened.


Here, it is a misdemeanor; simple trespass. Once you take a step toward the occupant, you are a legal target.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Denton said:


> Here, it is a misdemeanor; simple trespass. Once you take a step toward the occupant, you are a legal target.


I should clarify that being in a house after breaking and entering is a felony in MN and cause enough to use deadly force.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

I think maybe the guy changed his story a bit after he fired off a bunch of rounds at someone in his yard and wasn't sure if he hit him.

Many states won't let you just run out and shoot someone in the yard.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Sonya said:


> I think maybe the guy changed his story a bit after he fired off a bunch of rounds at someone in his yard and wasn't sure if he hit him.
> 
> Many states won't let you just run out and shoot someone in the yard.


I believe that story was the the bad guy "chased" the gun owner into the back yard.


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## Targetshooter (Dec 4, 2015)

Why did the gun owner let the bad guy chase him into the back yard ? Sounds like to me the gun owner needs some gun shooting training .


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

A lot of that sounds like made up BS.

But 16 rounds fired and not sure of any hits?????


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

I my part of Ohio, . . . that locked door that the bg just came through, . . . was locked for his protection, . . . not mine.

And everyone who otherwise has access to my house knows the rules, . . . 

I'm just too old to grapple with someone in the dark that I don't know.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

Sounds like two individuals that for different reasons should not be allowed to contaminate the gene pool.


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## Sonya (Oct 20, 2016)

RedLion said:


> I believe that story was the the bad guy "chased" the gun owner into the back yard.


Exactly, that is the "story". The reality may have been the guy saw someone in the yard and started firing, but then crafted a story to justify the situation when he realized he could get in trouble.


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## RedLion (Sep 23, 2015)

Sonya said:


> Exactly, that is the "story". The reality may have been the guy saw someone in the yard and started firing, but then crafted a story to justify the situation when he realized he could get in trouble.


Good point, but if he did in fact shoot 16 times and hit nothing, I am inclined to believe that he did run and was overwhelmed by the moment.


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## Stick (Sep 29, 2014)

This sounds like the guy I've been arguing with on Disqus. He asks what is easiest to hit with in the dark, a shotgun or a pistol? My response has been what idiot shoots in the dark? Idiots like this guy.


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## AnotherSOFSurvivor (Sep 7, 2016)

I know I just added the AL law earlier, was midwork and lost my train of thought let me grab my football helmet and quarterback play book...okay Im ready...

There is nothing quite frightening like finding someone in your house, even clearing rooms and some gizzy is in the corner with his PKM - same feeling, HUGE "oh f--k" reaction, takes a lot of training and muscle memory to overcome that urge to book it out of there

With that said I will give him the benefit of the doubt, I can totally see running, setting somewhere else and reengaging, provided the dude is still giving chase and presenting a threat...now here is where my armchair and QB skills come in...

He gave himself time and space and recollected, as he tells it the dude came for him and he fire an entire magazine and didnt hit him? That is just deplorable, dont get me wrong, Ive probably whisky-throttled my guns overseas and shot a nice patter over a BG a time or 2, but how the hell do you miss within engagement distance in decent ambient light in a straight line?

I am tempted to agree that he changed his story, no one is going to admit to brandishing a weapon and mag dumping after a running target...that might have happened

Of course, there are studies done that people (to include civs, LEO and MIL) will shoot around/by targets subconciously so maybe that happened.

Either way folks, this is why everyone and their cousin and their fathers cat stresses TRAINING - and no, not just shooting one mag through your pistol at paper at 5meters...I mean actual, meaningful, adaptive and repetitive training

Overcoming weaksauce human firmware is hard to do - training realistically for yourself over and over builds that muscle memory and can overcome you fumbling and possibly getting yourself killed

This is a great post; learning lessons everywhere



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## A Watchman (Sep 14, 2015)

In NE Texas you pull that crap and you will make the news ... and hailed a hero.


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## dwight55 (Nov 9, 2012)

AnotherSOFSurvivor said:


> ............There is nothing quite frightening like finding someone in your house, even clearing rooms and some gizzy is in the corner with his PKM - same feeling,........................................
> 
> takes a lot of training and muscle memory to overcome that urge to book it out of there.............
> 
> ...


AnotherSOFSurvivor, . . . you will never know the gufffaw, whoopin', and hollerin' going on inside me right now, . . .

I witnessed what you said in the first sentence as a young teenager, . . . and while I cannot go into details (very embarrassing for some others), . . . I'll just say that I had not thought of that incident for literally decades.

And you brought it all back, . . . and I just got the best laugh of the day, . . . probably of the week, . . . maybe even more.

So help me it was funny.

Your next three sentences I hightlighted, . . . spot on, my friend, . . . total agreement.

May God bless,
Dwight


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

All this could have been avoided if the guy had a German Shepard.


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## Grinch2 (Sep 12, 2016)

First off have to go upstairs to get the gun ? If you are one of those people who keeps all of your guns in one place why not keep something at your nightstand ? I mean me personally I got guns and yes guns with an S in every room, I even have a Glock 21 in my silverwear drawer ! Not to mention a Glock 17 behind the laundry detergent on the rack above the washer and dryer ! Maybe it's crazy to do that, I mean my Rottweilers would handle just about anyone before a gun even came into play anyways but man, this just seems stupid to me. Besides I'm far from Jerry Miculek but from the scene I got from reading this the guy was point blank, 16 rounds even from what ten yards ? I think even I could have winged him.


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