# Help improve my BOB



## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

Okay, this list is currently of what I have, I KNOW it's not much, but it's what i have been able to scrap together so far paying for college out of pocket and working at a deli :-|

Sewing Kit
Splint 
Basic Medical Supplies (Bandages, Large Bandages, Tape, etc.)
250 Box Matches
Military Scissors (Tough sonsabitches)
Insect Repellant
Thermal Gloves
Weather Radio
Weather Proof Matches
Fingerless Wool Gloves 
100 ft. Paracord
Hand Warmer x 4
Snare Wire
Pair Of Socks x 3
Compass
Washcloth
Stainless Steel Coffee Can
Flashlight (Not LED, to me those would give a position away to easily, this one is just bright enough to vaguely light up a map or compass.)
Small Wool Blanket
Small Soap Bar

To Get
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Portable Water Purifier
UTG Sportsman Tactical Scenario Vest (Still browsing, may choose another vest)
More Spare Ammo
Mil-spec Waterproof 50L pack (Already ordered, but won't arrive for a good 2 weeks)
Nicon P-223 AR-15 Scope (It is a ACOG (I think) specifically designed for the AR-15 and 5.56 NATO rounds)
Backpack Tarp

Weapons
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AR-15 w/ Adjustable Butt stock / 3-Point Sling / Quad Rail / Fore grip / Bi-pod / Mounted Laser Sight (For close quarters) / 8 Magazines fully loaded
Glock Handgun w/ 3 extra mags fully loaded.
SOG Survival Knife

Again, this is a very basic list. I know you guys know what your talking about so I would value your input over anyone i currently know. As far as what i'm prepping for ? Anything in general.

NOTICE** - Removed the obviously stupid stuff, so now im down to these.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

This is just a quick reply. I don't understand a few of the things your carrying and why they'd be that important for the weight like the screwdriver set, duct tape, dish soap, manual hair cutter, etc., but I'm not the one using them. Toss the 250 matches and get yourself a good fire steel and carry a spare BIC lighter or two. The weather proof matches are enough, though I have never found matches to light enough fires for there weight and space. I use lighters and fire steels. A good fire steel can light thousands fires if you're efficient. I notice a large lack of food too for starters. And no work gloves mentioned. They can also supplement as warmers too. I like Mechanix originals. The most important things are food, fire, water, shelter, security and the tools to get them. Sometimes knowledge is the best tool too. Things to look at.

Amazon.com: Light My Fire Original Swedish FireSteel Army 12,000 Strike Fire Starter - Black: Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: Mechanix Wear MG-55-009 Original Glove, Covert Medium: Home Improvement


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

Fuzzee said:


> This is just a quick reply. I don't understand a few of the things your carrying and why they'd be that important for the weight like the screwdriver set, duct tape, dish soap, manual hair cutter, etc., but I'm not the one using them. Toss the 250 matches and get yourself a good fire steel and carry a spare BIC lighter or two. The weather proof matches are enough, though I have never found matches to light enough fires for there weight and space. I use lighters and fire steels. A good fire steel can light thousands fires if you're efficient. I notice a large lack of food too for starters. And no work gloves mentioned. They can also supplement as warmers too. I like Mechanix originals.


Most of what you mentioned my mother thought to be a good idea, and not having that much in my BOB to begin with i thought why the hell not. I will grab one of those Fire starters on my next amazon bulk purchase. I do have 2 BIC lighters i can toss in my pack as well. And yes, i have not been able to come across anything short of bulky canned foods. If someone could reccomend something for that aspect i would GREATLY appreciate it. As well ill look into those Mechanix gloves, thank you Fuzzee.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Don't carry anything you can't absolutely live without and know how to use it. A good book to start off with a better understanding of bushcraft and survival is the SAS Handbook. Most of us pack various food items, but either MRE's or freeze dried as main meals. They can be bought online or in local stores. You just need to find out who has them. Most sports outdoor stores do. One of the best other food items to me is a plastic jar of peanut butter. You just can imagine how much you can get from it in calories and using it to mask other food you find along the way (bugs) that don't taste as good. There is a lot of BOB threads here. You'll learn a lot by them.

http://www.amazon.com/SAS-Survival-..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377652679&sr=8-1&keywords=sas

Amazon.com: mre

Amazon.com: mountainhouse


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Chopping tool like a Estwing camper's axe.

Old pill bottle with Vaseline coated cotton balls. These make fire starting in wet conditions a lot easier.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

If it was me, I would delete the following...

Splint x 1 - How many broken bones you gonna have?
250 Box Matches - Take a lighter and firesteel
Military Scissors - Use the knife
Small Dawn Dish Soap - You aren't carrying dishes, wash stuff with dirt or sand
Gas Siphon - You don't have a container for gas or a need for gas
Thermal Gloves - Take one pair of gloves
AA Batteries - Avoid people and don't worry about trading while bugging out
Weather Radio - Hold your hand out. If it gets wet, it's raining. Besides, the weatherman is usually wrong.
Weather Proof Matches - Take a lighter and firesteel
Fingerless Wool Gloves - Take one pair of gloves
Archery Glove - Take one pair of gloves
Hand Warmer x 4 - Use your pockets
Hand Wipes - Use your shirt
Soap - Maybe a small bar of hotel soap
Hand Sanitizer - No idea what this is or why you need it
Manual Hair Cutter - Ummmmm
Pair Of Socks x 2 - You can wash socks if you find a stream

I would add...

A washcloth
a 5x7 or 6x8 backpack tarp for shelter or to wear if it's raining
Some sort of sleep system; wool blanket or light sleeping bag
A small flashlight
A stainless steel water bottle that you can boil water in
A stainless steel cup you can cook in

Personally, I hate quad rails, they are too bulky. I would forget the bipod, foregrip and laser too. Get a good red dot or holo sight and hide from anything beyond 200 yards. 8 mags is a lot of mags, but if you can carry them, OK.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. <shrug>


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

poncho


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## PalmettoTree (Jun 8, 2013)

What they said.


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## Montana Rancher (Mar 4, 2013)

I know ive said it before

Emergency Supplies - 2400 Calorie Emergency Food Bar


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## HuntingHawk (Dec 16, 2012)

Map & compass


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

Montana Rancher said:


> I know ive said it before
> 
> Emergency Supplies - 2400 Calorie Emergency Food Bar


Thanks a million for that ! Ill be sure to save up and snag some of those.


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> If it was me, I would delete the following...
> 
> Splint x 1 - How many broken bones you gonna have?
> 250 Box Matches - Take a lighter and firesteel
> ...


Yeah i removed all the obviously silly stuff, and walla, now i have a ton more room  Im fixin to update my list to show what i've gotten so far.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Just because you have more room doesn't mean you should take more stuff. Just sayin.

Once you get your bag together, strap it on and walk 4 miles, then see if you can jog another mile. If not, you have too much stuff.

When yer carrying it on your back, less is usually more. 

Redundancy in CRITICAL systems is good. Have a few ways to purify or carry water. Have more than one way to make fire. It's easy to get carried away with this though.

I remember an episode of Doomsday Preppers (a really funny show) where this guy had a huge BOB (technically a Get Home Bag) that included like 5 or 6 ways to make fire, filter water, and so on. The funny thing was that all this was to get him home through 6 blocks in NYC. I mean really? All he needed was... nothing. Walk the freaking 6 blocks already.


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> Just because you have more room doesn't mean you should take more stuff. Just sayin.
> 
> Once you get your bag together, strap it on and walk 4 miles, then see if you can jog another mile. If not, you have too much stuff.
> 
> ...


Didn't think of it that way, haha.
The only other "big" item i believe I am going to add is a 1 person olive drab tent (I'll say its small enough I won't sleep comfy, but it can be put up and taken down and ready to go in a minute) And as far as what you said earlier about a tarp, I am going to get a poncho for rain weather. Everything else will be smaller tiered items, but i will note not to completely fill up the pack  I only hope that I can find a place around here that i could actually go for a 4 mile walk or so with my bag to give it the test . . . without getting the cops called on me. A huge portion of my area is not heavy urban, but urban nonetheless.


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## AvengersAssembled (Dec 13, 2012)

Yep, I usually get a good laugh at Doomsday Preppers, too. And just saying, if I had those kinds of supplies, I don't think I'd want to be filmed and viewed around the country... But I'd say get a good compass, and ditto on the couple ways to purify water/start fires. And I have some 1,200 calorie Mayday food emergency bars in mine, they have a long shelf life, can be stored in extreme heat or cold, and don't make you very thirsty (from my experience). I get mine from Camping Survival, prices are cheaper than Amazon! 

1200 Calorie Food Bars, Apple Cinnamon Flavor


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Whats up Notable I live in your area bro but you may want to take your city down. I am prolly the meanest guy posting on here and I wouldnt put down my city. Also forget the Vest find a Molle vest that thing is tactically a joke it tries to do everything but does nothing well a molle will let you customize your rig for comfort/ease of use/your particular equipment it will be alittle more expensive but you can buy it in increments as you increase your supplies also it opens up the market of molle adaptable accessories. medically I would say take a look at a thread i started. http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-talk/5078-medical-kit.html but essentially keep the band aids if you want them but grab some kerlex and ace wrap at a minimum also some triangular cravats make for improvised tourniquets or splinting material one. UG there I go again how much space do you have to spare. I never see this in the bag lists but any foot soldier will tell you TAKE A SLEEPING MAT it will improve the quality of your sleep and make you more productive during the day and less sore as well as reduce your caloric need.


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

ApexPredator said:


> Whats up Notable I live in your area bro but you may want to take your city down. I am prolly the meanest guy posting on here and I wouldnt put down my city. Also forget the Vest find a Molle vest that thing is tactically a joke it tries to do everything but does nothing well a molle will let you customize your rig for comfort/ease of use/your particular equipment it will be alittle more expensive but you can buy it in increments as you increase your supplies also it opens up the market of molle adaptable accessories. medically I would say take a look at a thread i started. http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-talk/5078-medical-kit.html but essentially keep the band aids if you want them but grab some kerlex and ace wrap at a minimum also some triangular cravats make for improvised tourniquets or splinting material one. UG there I go again how much space do you have to spare. I never see this in the bag lists but any foot soldier will tell you TAKE A SLEEPING MAT it will improve the quality of your sleep and make you more productive during the day and less sore as well as reduce your caloric need.


Many thanks for your post. Do you know of where i could find a good MOLLE vest ? I knew of MOLLE Packs, never heard of the vest. Thank you for the link as well to that thread, I guess that is 1 major aspect i have to be working on. And trust me when i say, I will have PLENTY of room for a sleeping mat. This bag i got is actually bigger then I originally expected (Not to the point of a burden) So i will have plenty of room for it, I just didn't know if one would be practical or not, but i will try and find a compact one, thanks again for the info !


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

honestly Amazon or something like that i know for a fact all the "tactical" stores within 150 miles of us suck except one but you wont want to buy there they sell premium tactical gear I mean preemo stuff I got my war belt there for 180 bucks kydex lining kevlar soft armor but it may give you ideas. But if your willing to do some travling you may and this is a big may find stuff in second hand stores in crestview there is a large military community there so some of their stuff will trickle into pawn shops and 2nd stores theres also a couple pawns around milton that have a very limited selection. this is an example Amazon.com: Colt Knives 3000 Tactical Gear MOLLE Vest with Black Heavy Duty Nylon Construction: Sports & Outdoors I wouldnt buy that vest but it gives you an idea what a molle is also I wanted to ask what your experiance with firearms is that scope isnt the acog i know of i could be wrong but an acog doesnt look a thing like it I always recommend a reflex sight for close in guns such as a eo tech, cco, elcan, doctor sight <--dont know how to spell that one


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

ApexPredator said:


> honestly Amazon or something like that i know for a fact all the "tactical" stores within 150 miles of us suck except one but you wont want to buy there they sell premium tactical gear I mean preemo stuff I got my war belt there for 180 bucks kydex lining kevlar soft armor but it may give you ideas. But if your willing to do some travling you may and this is a big may find stuff in second hand stores in crestview there is a large military community there so some of their stuff will trickle into pawn shops and 2nd stores theres also a couple pawns around milton that have a very limited selection. this is an example Amazon.com: Colt Knives 3000 Tactical Gear MOLLE Vest with Black Heavy Duty Nylon Construction: Sports & Outdoors I wouldnt buy that vest but it gives you an idea what a molle is also I wanted to ask what your experience with firearms is that scope isnt the acog i know of i could be wrong but an acog doesnt look a thing like it I always recommend a reflex sight for close in guns such as a eo tech, cco, elcan, doctor sight <--dont know how to spell that one


Aah that's one i looked at, just didn't know if i was looking at the correct type of vest. As far as firearm's experience, my only experience so far is lobbin rounds down range. As far as the sight goes, I know it isn't a acog, i just couldnt think of a way to describe it, I guess a Hunting Scope would be a better description. The reason i was looking at this scope in particular is that it can adjust to anywhere between 3x - 9x. I've seen 3x scopes, and personally love them. The reason i started to lean away from the reflex sights and such is that I don't want a scope that relies on batteries for the sight, and most of the reflexes and all of the holographics i looked at required batteries for the red dot. I know you could carry extra batteries, but that is probably me just nit picking.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

well I know of one that doesn't need batteries and thats the elcan its a 2300 dollar sight at this point because it has both 1.5 power and 6 power on it an amazing sight in my opinion. So reflex sights are usually battery reliant so if that's a major feature of your bug out plan than go for it i just ask because reflex sights take alot of the newb(for want of a better term) out of shooting thats why the army switched to them plus any on the move shooting or shooting from behind awkward cover is gonna throw your aim off the eye relief needs to be exactly the same every time sight picture etc etc so its worth it for any shooting up to 300 meters for sure 500 if the mechanics of your shooting are good and you understand trajectory


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

ApexPredator said:


> well I know of one that doesn't need batteries and thats the elcan its a 2300 dollar sight at this point because it has both 1.5 power and 6 power on it an amazing sight in my opinion. So reflex sights are usually battery reliant so if that's a major feature of your bug out plan than go for it i just ask because reflex sights take alot of the newb(for want of a better term) out of shooting thats why the army switched to them plus any on the move shooting or shooting from behind awkward cover is gonna throw your aim off the eye relief needs to be exactly the same every time sight picture etc etc so its worth it for any shooting up to 300 meters for sure 500 if the mechanics of your shooting are good and you understand trajectory


My family will be taking a trip soon where i will be able to test the longer range shooting with this scope. And i understand its issues with close range, that is why i was considering getting this scope with a Laser on the side of my Quad rail with a button on the foregrip. Once i sight the laser in, it can be good for the ranges the scope could not cover (Or if constant moving an action happening) Then again, as you pointed out, I dont have as much experience with firearms as i should, so i cannot claim how effective this would be.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

lasers are good for 25m or less in my opinion yea they can work further but the time it takes to acquire the sight picture then look for the laser is just going to drop your reaction time good. Well I do have experience but my plan is not your plan my life is not your life whatever it is you should feel comfortable using it but try it out in various positions and try to acquire and fire on your target in under 3s thats about the time you have at 100m to make a slow shot.
Is your family preppers as well or just you.


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## Leon (Jan 30, 2012)

the wool blanket is a real good idea. They double as tarps and absorb rainwater to drink


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

Leon said:


> the wool blanket is a real good idea. They double as tarps and absorb rainwater to drink


I honestly never would have thought about using it to absorb rainwater, Thanks for that comment Leon !


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

Thank you to everyone who provided links with good food supplements ! Will look those over as well and research a few more. And thank you HuntingHawk for those suggestions, will work on those as well !


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

Make sure your vest will work with your pack if you're going to be wearing both.

I just add a few pouches to my pack's waist belt and stuff things into my pockets if I absolutely have to. The amount of weight you carry counts everything from the top of your head to the soles of your shoes. Lighter loads mean faster travel and ultimately, your chances of success.

You can walk around your neighborhood with a pack. If you don't want to carry your weapons, carry their equivalent weight. If your neighbors ask, tell them you are training for an assault on Everest.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

A sleeping mat does add comfort, but it's a bulky item. As a guy who's sleep on the ground more than I can count it's nice to have but the reality is you can only carry and strap so much on. I used mine a lot in the army, but I didn't have the need to base my survival long term on what I carried and had support to fall back on. Long term outdoor living in the army meant camps and supplies being flown or trucked in. Now I simply carry a woobie (poncho liner), poncho (for tarp use and rain cover) and a sleeping bag. Down in the south you've got lots of snakes who like to cuddle up to warm things in the night. You do not want to be in the woods sleeping on the ground with the mat. You want to get the knife/ax/machete out and make a raised platform to sleep on about a foot off the ground. I cover mine with palm leaves after and put my sleeping bag down. That sleeping bag is essential too in colder weather.


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## sbasacco (Sep 10, 2012)

Prepadoodle....as always...you hit it bang on the money...shelter is important and not on his list....and at least a light sleeping bag or wool blanket...your bob should reflect the time of year as well. If it is winter, than adjust it accordingly. You dont need to carry the water filter system, as there are many purification tablets out there that are alot smaller to carry. I do have a firesteel, but I also carry strike anywhere matches in a small pill bottle. Oh one last thing...a garbage bag or too....helps with the shelter or can collect rain water or dew from a tree to drink if you need it.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Youve got a point with the snakes and bugs Fuz but in survival/evasion mode I ask two questions 
First do you want to be heard chopping near nightfall especially if your just moving through 
Second do you want to burn those calories every night/its still more efficient to sleep on a insulated pad especially on a raised platform for calories.

But you do have good points for consideration I always take the bivy sack with me and sleep inside it aint nothing getting in then. My recommendation since he mentioned getting a half shelter anyways those 1 man hoop tents are awesome for keeping out critters and rain.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

A good tent, bag and pad weigh about 4 lbs, total.


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## NotableDeath (Mar 21, 2013)

Prepadoodle said:


> Make sure your vest will work with your pack if you're going to be wearing both.
> 
> I just add a few pouches to my pack's waist belt and stuff things into my pockets if I absolutely have to. The amount of weight you carry counts everything from the top of your head to the soles of your shoes. Lighter loads mean faster travel and ultimately, your chances of success.
> 
> You can walk around your neighborhood with a pack. If you don't want to carry your weapons, carry their equivalent weight. If your neighbors ask, tell them you are training for an assault on Everest.


Ahaha, assault on Everest. Think ima switch to getting a MOLLE vest like Apex suggested. After looking at a few, they seem lighter and more customizable.


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## Rigged for Quiet (Mar 3, 2013)

If you have a regular recurring flea market in your area there is more than a good chance of a surplus vendor being there.

Plus 1 to the Bivy sack idea as well. Absolutely critter free, BUT ya gotta be aware of what might be under you when wake up!


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

ApexPredator said:


> Youve got a point with the snakes and bugs Fuz but in survival/evasion mode I ask two questions
> First do you want to be heard chopping near nightfall especially if your just moving through
> Second do you want to burn those calories every night/its still more efficient to sleep on a insulated pad especially on a raised platform for calories.
> 
> But you do have good points for consideration I always take the bivy sack with me and sleep inside it aint nothing getting in then. My recommendation since he mentioned getting a half shelter anyways those 1 man hoop tents are awesome for keeping out critters and rain.


You've got to access your situation at all times. If you're evading someone and/or need to move fast and/or making a raised platform would be a bad choice in the noise made or trail left than you don't make one. But the snakes and bugs will still be there. Tents do help with that, but I don't like sleeping in a tent unless I'm in a secure, protected area where there's little chance of trouble before I can get out of it. Because a person in a tent makes an easy target. I know if I wanted to take out someone in a tent, I could be on them before they'd know it and ever get out of their tent while I could beat them with a club, knife them, pound them with a rock, shoot them or tie them up for later. It's no different than someone throwing a net on you technically. I normally sleep under my tarp, on my sleeping bag, fully dressed (except for my boots, sometimes), covered with my poncho liner and firearm by my leg, covered. I prefer a raised platform, but have sleep many times without. It's just more dangerous.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I like a tarp over a tent too. IF set up so you can still see around you while you're laying down, you can gain the advantage of being able to see someone (at least their legs) while they can't see you. Besides, they are lighter, easier to carry, and more versatile.

I've had a snake climb into my sleeping bag before, and it's not fun. Actually, it's kind of a funny story, so...

I was in the desert near Ft Bliss Texas in my tank on some training thing. It was raining, which is very rare for the area, and my gunner's position leaked. I was getting this drip, drip, drip right on my head, which was driving me nuts, so I broke one of the cardinal rules of armor and decided to sleep on the ground. I grabbed our driver and told him I was gonna sleep under the tank... another big no no.

Anyway, sometime after that I was under there dry and warm in my Army bag and was awakened by something crawling around near my feet. My tired brain processed this as a snake, so I sat up quickly, smacking my skull on the underside of the tank, BONG! This dazed me a bit and kinda knocked me back down. When I had gathered what little wits I have, I tried to sit up again... BONG. After the second time, it finally dawned on me that I was under a tank and couldn't sit up, so I rolled over and set the world speed record for a low crawl. I distinctly remember passing the road runner and Wiley E Coyote as I crawled across the desert at like 300 miles per hour.

I went back later and shook out my bag. The snake slithered away fast so I didn't see what kid it was, but it was probably a rattler. I never slept on the ground in the desert again!

I just ordered a Catoma Adventure Shelters IBNS mesh bivy! No more sleeping with the snakes for me.


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## roy (May 25, 2013)

The first rule of survival is to survive. I you are sleepin' layin' out on a rock you ain't gonnna survive in many climates. Tents ain't 'xactly tactical, bivy is probably much better but if you have a one man tent that ain't bright orange, set up late and knock down early you aren't likely to be discovered. A tent will keep you dry, keep the bugs off and add some warmth. A good one man tent can weigh under 2lbs. A good sleeping bag can weigh a pound. The Thermarest Neoair weighs about 8 ounces.


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> I like a tarp over a tent too. IF set up so you can still see around you while you're laying down, you can gain the advantage of being able to see someone (at least their legs) while they can't see you. Besides, they are lighter, easier to carry, and more versatile.
> 
> I've had a snake climb into my sleeping bag before, and it's not fun. Actually, it's kind of a funny story, so...
> 
> ...


Lol, that's like a classic cartoon moment. :mrgreen:


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## Fuzzee (Nov 20, 2012)

roy said:


> The first rule of survival is to survive. I you are sleepin' layin' out on a rock you ain't gonnna survive in many climates. Tents ain't 'xactly tactical, bivy is probably much better but if you have a one man tent that ain't bright orange, set up late and knock down early you aren't likely to be discovered. A tent will keep you dry, keep the bugs off and add some warmth. A good one man tent can weigh under 2lbs. A good sleeping bag can weigh a pound. The Thermarest Neoair weighs about 8 ounces.


I can have the exact same thing without a tent. But be able to hear someone coming better and deal with them, hopefully before they deal with me. With my tarp spread between some trees or bushes, tied off with 550, inside my sleeping bag if it's that cold, arms out, rifle in my hands or at my side, covered by my poncho liner. In a second I can throw off the poncho liner and put a bullet into them or shoot right through it (though I wouldn't want to). In the tent, I'd probably never even hear them if they were more careful and right on me, and I'm stuck trying to get out of the tent if I even can before they kill me. I predict a lot of dead tent goers when shtf and people are getting violent to survive. tents are nice when you've got a camp and people taking turns standing guard. Otherwise, your in a cocoon.


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## ApexPredator (Aug 17, 2013)

Good point about the guard I wont be traveling alone so I did have a guard planed but also the tent I have is actually really well adapted for defense if you have a gun I would also assume that it doesn't mess with my ability to hear significantly. I cant really describe it but its basically a tarp strung over a mosquito net "tent" but it does give a 360 and about 10+/- ft up from the lying down position just a guess I havnt slept in it for awhile. Didn't even realize that this might have been the reason for the tent being designed the way it was. Ive searched around the internet and found plenty of mosquito tents throw a tarp over the top and you've got it for the most part although I haven't found the exact one I have and will be taking much better care of it now. this is why I like this forum good discussions that lead to a hybrid solution in my mind.


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## sparkyprep (Jul 5, 2013)

Ditch all the tools and replace with a good multi-tool, like a Leatherman Wave. I like this model, because the knife blade can be opened with one hand, unlike other models.


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## StarPD45 (Nov 13, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> I like a tarp over a tent too. IF set up so you can still see around you while you're laying down, you can gain the advantage of being able to see someone (at least their legs) while they can't see you. Besides, they are lighter, easier to carry, and more versatile.
> 
> I've had a snake climb into my sleeping bag before, and it's not fun. Actually, it's kind of a funny story, so...
> 
> ...


Did they ever fix the leak in the tank?


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