# 22 LR - am I missing something?



## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

I have about 10,000 rounds for my 10-22. To me, that seems like plenty. I will never use that much personally, and it gives a buffer to use as a trade item. If I find some here and there, I will pick it up, but not for an outrageous price. What I AM picking up is pellet gun ammo. The .22 hollow point hunting pellet takes a rabbit out easily. The pistol uses .177 and my son is an absolute crack shot with it - mice, rats, birds. I do not plan to use the 22 LR for taking small game when the pellets can do the same. The 22 LR is too precious for that. Pellets are really cheap, and hunting with a pellet gun is a whole lot quieter. I just don't feel that desperate to stock much more on 22LR. Am I missing something? Thoughts?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

10,000 rounds, more than you will ever shoot? What would you be missing.

More than you will ever shoot is more than you will ever shoot.

I would shoot through that in 6 months just at the range, but that's me.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> 10,000 rounds, more than you will ever shoot? What would you be missing.
> 
> More than you will ever shoot is more than you will ever shoot.
> 
> I would shoot through that in 6 months just at the range, but that's me.


10,000 rounds is my back up supply. When I go shooting, I replace it. I certainly don't shoot as much as you do - can't afford it.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

I could shoot 10 K in a year and have. Now that will last a lifetime . Until more shows up.
I can load 9mm for 9.5 cents each, I just shoot 9's


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## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

I dont know about missing anything do you have a redundent system incase somthing happens to your 10- 22 like adapter for other rifles i use 12 Gauge To 20g To .410 To .22lr barrel adapters for my shotgun. i belive in everything being multipurpose


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

RN

I think you've got the right idea, but like Salty, I go through lots of .22 LR. Regardless, 10,000 rounds is admirable for sure. 

I don't own a pellet gun but for small game, it makes sense. I shot one earlier this year and it was a real sweet gun, they've come a long way. 

If you only have the Ruger 10-22 (which is a fine firearm), I would add either a bolt action rifle in .22 LR or a revolver in .22 LR in case something happens to the 10-22. 2 is 1 and 1 is none.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

10,000 rounds sounds like a good prep for 22 lr to me. I would go further because of the size of my family and number of 22s in circulation among us. I like your ideas on being quiet and using air rifles/pistols for taking small game. No need to tip off others as to what you are doing. I also prep archery for that reason.


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## thepeartree (Aug 25, 2014)

What you're missing is what most of us are missing: a reasonably priced steady supplier for the ammo.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Slippy said:


> RN
> 
> I think you've got the right idea, but like Salty, I go through lots of .22 LR. Regardless, 10,000 rounds is admirable for sure.
> 
> ...


The 10-22 isn't my only gun. I also have a 40 cal Springfield XD, 4 inch barrel (I LOVE that gun!) and a Remington 870. My son also has a 10-22 and a Glock 40 handgun. We are trying to keep our ammo the same. A 22 handgun makes sense, though. I certainly don't have the arsenal that most of you have, but it gives me a little bit of backup.

This may sound dumb to most of you, but to save ammo and still practice, I use dummy bullets in front of the TV. Just practicing the basics over and over to get muscle memory. Stuff like clearing the weapon, safety on/off, shooting with a penny on the barrel to keep my breathing steady, etc.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Slippy said:


> If you only have the Ruger 10-22 (which is a fine firearm), I would add either a bolt action rifle in .22 LR or a revolver in .22 LR in case something happens to the 10-22. 2 is 1 and 1 is none.


The .22LR Ruger American Rifle would be an EXCELLENT choice for a backup/second .22 because the magazines are interchangeable with your 10/22.

Here's my recent review on that gun:

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/rifles-sks-ar-ak-long-guns/10711-salty-s-gun-review-ruger-american-rifle-8301-chambered-22lr.html


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

I used to give the kids a brick each when we would go out shooting. 6 kids ( not all mine) on the line is 3000 rounds in one afternoon.


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## Camel923 (Aug 13, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> The 10-22 isn't my only gun. I also have a 40 cal Springfield XD, 4 inch barrel (I LOVE that gun!) and a Remington 870. My son also has a 10-22 and a Glock 40 handgun. We are trying to keep our ammo the same. A 22 handgun makes sense, though. I certainly don't have the arsenal that most of you have, but it gives me a little bit of backup.
> 
> This may sound dumb to most of you, but to save ammo and still practice, I use dummy bullets in front of the TV. Just practicing the basics over and over to get muscle memory. Stuff like clearing the weapon, safety on/off, shooting with a penny on the barrel to keep my breathing steady, etc.


Your supposed to practice your hand gun basics that way. Good for you. Most don't so they just might be rusty when such skills are called upon. Just be certain you are not practicing bad habits.


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## 1skrewsloose (Jun 3, 2013)

For kids I can expect it, but, 10k rounds for practice? Once you're sighted in, why waste ammo?. I know its a hoot to shoot, but that much every year?!? I need a new job so I can afford to shoot that much! Me and the wife would love it!!


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## Tennessee (Feb 1, 2014)

My thoughts are that 10,000 rounds of 22lr is more than an enough. Especially if you’re using other calibers and pellets. Providing you have a good supply of the other calibers as well. FYI when you shoot a brick of 22's you replace that brick of 22's to maintain your level then you should be good to go. Now work on your other prepping weakness.


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## Notsoyoung (Dec 2, 2013)

The trouble now is trying to find a steady supply of .22 LR PERIOD.... If the SHTF I doubt if many people will be going out and burning 4 or 5 hundred rounds at the range in a single day. Yes, range time is both fun and necessary to sharpen skills, but if the SHTF, most practice will be over. If you are using a .22 LR for hunting purposes 10,000 rds will easily last you a lifetime.


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## Prepp(g)er (Feb 18, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> This may sound dumb to most of you, but to save ammo and still practice, I use dummy bullets in front of the TV. Just practicing the basics over and over to get muscle memory. Stuff like clearing the weapon, safety on/off, shooting with a penny on the barrel to keep my breathing steady, etc.


That doesn't sound dumb at all.Competition shooters practise basics like a steady trigger pull over and over, often with dummy bullets. plus, every little thing that improves your shooting counts imo.


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## Prepadoodle (May 28, 2013)

I have 2 10/22s and keep about 5,000 rounds as my rainy day stash. When I find more ammo, I tend to shoot it, but never go below 5,000.

One thing you might consider is having a few spare parts on hand. I have a spare trigger return spring and extractor stashed, along a few other springs. I'll probably never need them, but eh. You might also consider just getting a whole extra gun... just in case.

And you can never have too many magazines.


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## dsdmmat (Nov 9, 2012)

Prepadoodle said:


> I have 2 10/22s and keep about 5,000 rounds as my rainy day stash. When I find more ammo, I tend to shoot it, but never go below 5,000.
> 
> One thing you might consider is having a few spare parts on hand. I have a spare trigger return spring and extractor stashed, along a few other springs. I'll probably never need them, but eh. You might also consider just getting a whole extra gun... just in case.
> 
> And you can never have too many magazines.


My problem with spare parts is they morph into whole guns eventually.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

So I also have an old Remington 33 bolt action. I've never shot it. It sits in the closet - my husband's old gun from who knows where. I should take it in to the gunsmith and have it checked out. Would it be a good backup?

So I asked hubby about this gun. He says it shoots real good, but it hasn't been used in a long time. He got it from his dad. Looks like it shoots both short and long 22. Sure feels nice, though. Real nice feeling stock.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

RNprepper said:


> So I also have an old Remington 33 bolt action. I've never shot it. It sits in the closet - my husband's old gun from who knows where. I should take it in to the gunsmith and have it checked out. Would it be a good backup?


Sweet! Get the Remington checked out, vintage! You could probably kill a porcupine with it! Just Kidding









O*verview:*


*Description:*Single Shot Bolt Action*Introduction Year:*1932*Year Discontinued:*1935*Total Production:*Approximately: 263,550*Designer/Inventor:*C.C. Loomis*Action Type:*Single Shot Bolt Action*Caliber/Gauge:*.22 rimfire, .22 shot cartridges (for smoothbore barrel)*Serial Number Blocks:*Starting: 00001
Ending: 263600*Grades Offered:*33A Standard
33A Lyman rear peep sight
33P peep sight
33 N.R.A. Junior Target*Variations:*Model 33 Smooth Bore


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Sweet! Get the Remington checked out, vintage! You could probably kill a porcupine with it! Just Kidding


AAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (only if I intend to eat the porcupine.)


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

Slippy, you'd probably love to see the little vest pistol that we also got from my father-in-law. Deutschewerke cal 6.35. Intact walnut handles. Cute little thing and from what I've read, pretty darn accurate. I took this one in to the gunsmith, and he said to never shoot it unless it gets a new barrel. Also that modern ammo may be too much for it.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Prepp(g)er said:


> That doesn't sound dumb at all.Competition shooters practise basics like a steady trigger pull over and over, often with dummy bullets. plus, every little thing that improves your shooting counts imo.


Here's what the wife and I pass between our chairs each night... 250 pulls per person per night.


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## James m (Mar 11, 2014)

I assume the pellet rifle or handgun would be lever or pump and not the co2 cartridge types. Just because it would be simpler to buy a bunch of pellets and not have to deal with the co2. You would just have to pump. And I would assume it would be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying bullets just for small things.


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## Inor (Mar 22, 2013)

I would think 10,000 rounds as basic minimum amount would be adequate. At least I hope so sinceour minimum on .22 is 7,500.  In a situation where it is impossible to get more, practice gets relegated to shooting just enough to stay competent with the weapon.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Pellet rifles are under rated. Especially the ones nowadays. They are definitely "Adult Air Rifles", far removed from our Daisy Red Ryder's, with tremendous accuracy and quite a bit of knock down power. Plus there is a great selection of pellets and optics. Only decision on these is what caliber, pre-charged pneumatic, break barrel or pump, and how much do you want to spend? In the right hands and with plenty of practice, today's air rifles can be efficient killing machines.


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## RNprepper (Apr 5, 2014)

bigdogbuc said:


> Pellet rifles are under rated. Especially the ones nowadays. They are definitely "Adult Air Rifles", far removed from our Daisy Red Ryder's, with tremendous accuracy and quite a bit of knock down power. Plus there is a great selection of pellets and optics. Only decision on these is what caliber, pre-charged pneumatic, break barrel or pump, and how much do you want to spend? In the right hands and with plenty of practice, today's air rifles can be efficient killing machines.


Our pellet rifle is pump action, and let me tell you, when your follow up shot requires 15 pumps, you get to be real accurate on the first shot! Clean head shots - rabbits, that is.


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## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

RNprepper said:


> AAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (only if I intend to eat the porcupine.)


 its really not bad meat kind of a porkish nutty flavor


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Danm said:


> its really not bad meat kind of a porkish nutty flavor


One of my Godsons shot one and was going to 'be like a frontiersman! Skin it, cook it, dry the skin ...

His dad and I just smiled. About an hour later, he came back and said "that thing stinks worse than a skunk", about a week later, he put the gloves he was wearing into the burn barrel.

If I ever eat a porcupine, you will know that I am HUNGRY!

AJ


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Inor said:


> I would think 10,000 rounds as basic minimum amount would be adequate. At least I hope so sinceour minimum on .22 is 7,500.  In a situation where it is impossible to get more, practice gets relegated to shooting just enough to stay competent with the weapon.


I think you would have to take into consideration how many shooters. 10,000 wouldn't go far in my house since there are 9 adults. we all try to have our EDC as well as our back up use the 22 LR. that would only give each of us just over 1000 rounds. We are fortunate that my step father is now retired and has plenty of time for one of his favorite hobbies, Reloading. our family does once "monthly family shoot out" just to keep everyone in practice and we probably go through half of that in just a few hours. 
Not all of us use riffles so we don't go through as much there but still try to keep more than enough in stock and reload what we use.


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## Danm (Nov 15, 2014)

Have you considered also traning with bow,slingshot and crossbow we have bow bashs once a month to stay good withthem they are easy to maintain and arrows can be fashioned very easily.


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## tirednurse (Oct 2, 2013)

Danm said:


> Have you considered also traning with bow,slingshot and crossbow we have bow bashs once a month to stay good withthem they are easy to maintain and arrows can be fashioned very easily.


my oldest son, his wife, my daughter, sig other and I all use bows. This was out first year of bow hunting and it was a blast. much nicer than hunting with all the idiots with riffles tromping through the forest. 
My oldest 2 sons have also started knife throwing. Scares me to death. Don't know why since a gun can do the same damage. Momma just stays away from that.  maybe someday.


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

Hi again all. I have a question and this thread is a good place to ask it. I think I remember knowing the answer to this, but for the life of me I can't recall it. So here goes. Um...why are we as preppers and survivalists so excited about .22 caliber? People stocking up on .22 rounds and such. Is it a money thing? Because they are cheap to shoot? I take it back. I may have never known and was just following the crowd. Are we planning on plinking to pass time after a SHTF scenario? Perhaps it has become "popular" to "budget prep"? 

I'm sorry if this offends anyone. Truly I am. I'm not just saying that. I have about 16k rounds of 9mm, 5.5k rounds of .45, and 2k rounds of .300 mag. Not to mention 3 5 gal. buckets of .223 that may contain a few duds by now. My re-load supplies are in good shape. Now, I know I am way behind the curve and I need much more .45 and .300 mag., but that's a good start for me. I loaded 75% of all those myself.

But my little boy's Savage 10-22 has never, ever entered my mind as even a back-up plan. We have about 800 rounds for it, but it in a defense scenario, it might as well be shooting blanks that say "If this was even loud enough for you to hear, I'm over here, shoot back at me now!"

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry, but there is a reason why the military and law enforcement do not use the .22 and we are not aloud in the woods with one for deer season.

Given everyone's apparent love affair with the .22, I assume it has to be cost per round. I hate to tell you, the bad guys will not be coming after you with a .22 or even carrying one. No one is going to be wanting .22 ammo in trade for anything. They won't be carrying one either. 

People say that if that's all you got when the lights go out, its better than nothing. Well, then maybe they should have been prepared. This is one place where I have to draw the line. This .22 stuff is just going to get people killed. We need to get real and stop playing silly games with a child's first rifle. Gangs of looters roaming the landscape? Um... .45, .30-06, 12 gauge. Or for Pete's sake keep hiding. This has to end. This .22 stuff is Kool-aid you can not afford to keep drinking.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Small game, teaching others to shoot, QUIETLY popping a deer out the back window at the salt lick, carrying 100's of rounds with very little weight, cheap to shoot, fun to shoot.

That's what's on top of my mind,
AJ


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

A J said:


> Small game, teaching others to shoot, QUIETLY popping a deer out the back window at the salt lick, carrying 100's of rounds with very little weight, cheap to shoot, fun to shoot.
> 
> That's what's on top of my mind,
> AJ


Me and MIne have some AR platform .22 LR firearms that are useful and fun to train with. I'm still cycling through some old 3 and 4 cent/round .22lr ammo so compared to even my cheapest 5.56 at about 25 cents.round, I'm well ahead of the game. With 5.56 replacement cost at 35 cents/round and .22LR at 9 or 10 cents/round, I don't have a problem firing 300 rounds of 22 LR a few times a week.

Plus, I'm confident that given certain situations, a semi-auto .22LR will easily handle a small group of thugs with stolen, found or rusty handguns who are trying to ascend my 900 foot uphill driveway.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> People say that if that's all you got when the lights go out, its better than nothing. Well, then maybe they should have been prepared. This is one place where I have to draw the line. This .22 stuff is just going to get people killed. We need to get real and stop playing silly games with a child's first rifle. Gangs of looters roaming the landscape? Um... .45, .30-06, 12 gauge. Or for Pete's sake keep hiding. This has to end. This .22 stuff is Kool-aid you can not afford to keep drinking.


Sounds like somebody lives in the city.

Out here in the country we use ours for pest control... I don't need to shoot rabbit in the garden with a freaking .223, the object is to kill the rabbit not to explode him across 2 acres of land.


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

Nope, I'm here in the back country mountains of WV. Gotta say I never saw someone make a three hundred yard shot with a .22! You must be very, very good. And again, the reality is not 25 years after the SHTF. Rusty guns and all....lol. I can't stop laughing. And even 20 feet outside your window, you are not dropping that deer with a .22! You will track that thing for miles. I had a clean head shot on one in '86 from 30 feet. It bounced off his skull. 

They are fun though, and a good way to teach gun safety.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> Nope, I'm here in the back country mountains of WV. Gotta say I never saw someone make a three hundred yard shot with a .22! You must be very, very good. And again, the reality is not 25 years after the SHTF. Rusty guns and all....lol. I can't stop laughing. And even 20 feet outside your window, you are not dropping that deer with a .22! You will track that thing for miles. I had a clean head shot on one in '86 from 30 feet. It bounced off his skull.
> 
> They are fun though, and a good way to teach gun safety.


We always butchered steers with a 22lr and trust me, steers have a LOT thicker skulls than deer.

AJ


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> .... Gotta say I never saw someone make a three hundred yard shot with a .22! You must be very, very good. And again, the reality is not 25 years after the SHTF. Rusty guns and all....lol. I can't stop laughing...
> 
> They are fun though, and a good way to teach gun safety.


I get what you are saying AMF but picture this; A tree lined driveway with heavy brush and briars along the sides. No easy way to get to my house except the driveway. I don't need to put a round in a bulls eye at 900 feet (300 yards) all I need to do is send some lead down the driveway to create some major confusion and possibly knee cap or wing a few thugs.

I'll gladly give you a handgun at the bottom of my very steep drive and I'll take a semi-auto .22LR at the top of the driveway, and we'll see if you make it up. I expect your laughing will stop pretty quickly.

And if some thugs come with heavier firepower, well I'm prepared for that too.


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

A J said:


> We always butchered steers with a 22lr and trust me, steers have a LOT thicker skulls than deer.
> 
> AJ


We do the same from point blank and at the right angle. Back when we had a bigger spread, we hung them and cut their throats if we already had orders for the brains.


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

Slippy said:


> I get what you are saying AMF but picture this; A tree lined driveway with heavy brush and briars along the sides. No easy way to get to my house except the driveway. I don't need to put a round in a bulls eye at 900 feet (300 yards) all I need to do is send some lead down the driveway to create some major confusion and possibly knee cap or wing a few thugs.
> 
> I'll gladly give you a handgun at the bottom of my very steep drive and I'll take a semi-auto .22LR at the top of the driveway, and we'll see if you make it up. I expect your laughing will stop pretty quickly.
> 
> And if some thugs come with heavier firepower, well I'm prepared for that too.


I understand that, Slippy. I do, I do, I do. But If my family is in danger, I am not reaching for a .22 short, long or long rifle. They will be in the scope on a .300 mag. Why play around in that situation? Good grief, surely you can see my point. Right?


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> We do the same from point blank and at the right angle. Back when we had a bigger spread, we hung them and cut their throats if we already had orders for the brains.


 "out the back window at the salt lick" takes care of the range and angle.

AJ


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> Hi again all. I have a question and this thread is a good place to ask it. I think I remember knowing the answer to this, but for the life of me I can't recall it. So here goes. Um...why are we as preppers and survivalists so excited about .22 caliber? People stocking up on .22 rounds and such. Is it a money thing? Because they are cheap to shoot? I take it back. I may have never known and was just following the crowd. Are we planning on plinking to pass time after a SHTF scenario? Perhaps it has become "popular" to "budget prep"?
> 
> I'm sorry if this offends anyone. Truly I am. I'm not just saying that. I have about 16k rounds of 9mm, 5.5k rounds of .45, and 2k rounds of .300 mag. Not to mention 3 5 gal. buckets of .223 that may contain a few duds by now. My re-load supplies are in good shape. Now, I know I am way behind the curve and I need much more .45 and .300 mag., but that's a good start for me. I loaded 75% of all those myself.
> 
> ...


I have to say, overall, I disagree with you. Does it have it's limitations? Absolutely. So does everything out there, but a .22's limits happen sooner and much closer. A friend of mine from a long time ago, his dad would poach to help keep the family fed. He has taken numerous deer and elk, with a .22 rifle. Always carried a .22 rifle with him wherever he went. And he could shoot a gnat off a flea's ass at 75 yards with it. Is it my preferred choice for that sort of thing? Not at all. Will it work, if you're within close enough range? Absolutely. I've seen it.

Is it my preferred choice for home defense? Nope. But it will work. More people die, are left paralyzed, permanently disabled and disfigured every year from being shot by a .22 than any other caliber. Probably because it carried and used by more people (especially gang bangers) than any other caliber.

You talk about "maybe they should have been prepared". Ever stop to think that some preppers are limited financially? Don't have oodles of disposable income to buy stuff like bunkers, bug out locations, .50 Caliber Barrett's, etc.? I know I don't have a bunch of disposable income. I do what I can, when I can.

Military and Law Enforcement serve a much different purpose, and therefore need different tools to accomplish those tasks. A .22 is not allowed in the woods to hunt big game because it cannot be counted on to make a humane kill. But there are folks using .338 Win Mags that can't make a clean kill either because they try to perform above their's or the rifles ability. Having a bigger gun does not you make you a better shooter by default.

A .22 is not my first choice, it's obviously not your first choice, but for some people, it's the only choice. Which definitely does not lend to the need for your Kool-Aid comment.

And I know this much; Whether you're shooting at me with with a fifty cal or a pellet gun, I'm getting the hell out of the way. I think most people would concur with me.


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

A J said:


> "out the back window at the salt lick" takes care of the range and angle.
> 
> AJ


Fair enough, AJ. In that instance, I can't argue the shot. And, as far as pest control, .22 is great as well. But I'm trying to make a point about hunting and defense in a survival/post SHTF event when that shot means life or death for your family. Be it "bad guys" or food for the table, I will not trust a .22 for either job when I have calibers that are better suited for the task. That small game may be the first we've seen in days or weeks, its getting the 12 gauge treatment. Fair enough?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

I cant really figure out what yall are arguing about. I have a theory there have been more deer killed in Texas with a .22 LR than any other round maybe only playing second fiddle to a .30-30. Should be good enough to protect the home stead. Dont make me even mention the biggest Kodiak bear killed in Canada in 1956 by an ***** lady with a single shot .22. No telling how many have perished in the hood and barrio by the self same caliber. Yall make me crazy sometimes.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> I understand that, Slippy. I do, I do, I do. But If my family is in danger, I am not reaching for a .22 short, long or long rifle. They will be in the scope on a .300 mag. Why play around in that situation? Good grief, surely you can see my point. Right?


If they're far enough away that you can see them in your scope, or at a distance where your set-up is the appropriate tool, odds are you won't know that they're there in the first place. And good luck using that 300 Win Mag with a scope in close quarters.

Flexibility, both in thought and action, is the key to success and quite possibly, your survival. Whatever works for you, works for you. But don't discount or put down what works for others.


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## Arklatex (May 24, 2014)

22 is not going to be my choice for self defense. I use it for critters. Shtf lots of critter eatin is gonna be going on. I use .410 for the same. Not gonna prefer that for self defense either. I'm having a hard time getting your point. Use the right tool for the right job. I wouldn't hammer a nail with a screwdriver or screw in a screw with a hammer. 22 is a useful tool for its intended purpose.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Arklatex said:


> 22 is not going to be my choice for self defense. I use it for critters. Shtf lots of critter eatin is gonna be going on. I use .410 for the same. Not gonna prefer that for self defense either. I'm having a hard time getting your point. Use the right tool for the right job. I wouldn't hammer a nail with a screwdriver or screw in a screw with a hammer. 22 is a useful tool for its intended purpose.


I've actually hammered a nail with a screwdriver. No kidding. Not the right tool, but I made it work! :grin: I'm kinda' screwy like that.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> I understand that, Slippy. I do, I do, I do. But If my family is in danger, I am not reaching for a .22 short, long or long rifle. They will be in the scope on a .300 mag. Why play around in that situation? Good grief, surely you can see my point. Right?


Sure I see your point. And we could go back and forth all night. Good grief, surely you see my point? Right?
How 'bout this, I'll only use my .22LR if my Nuclear Weapons are in the shop?


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

bigdogbuc said:


> I have to say, overall, I disagree with you. Does it have it's limitations? Absolutely. So does everything out there, but a .22's limits happen sooner and much closer. A friend of mine from a long time ago, his dad would poach to help keep the family fed. He has taken numerous deer and elk, with a .22 rifle. Always carried a .22 rifle with him wherever he went. And he could shoot a gnat off a flea's ass at 75 yards with it. Is it my preferred choice for that sort of thing? Not at all. Will it work, if you're within close enough range? Absolutely. I've seen it.
> 
> Is it my preferred choice for home defense? Nope. But it will work. More people die, are left paralyzed, permanently disabled and disfigured every year from being shot by a .22 than any other caliber. Probably because it carried and used by more people (especially gang bangers) than any other caliber.
> 
> ...


This is so similar to the "What makes a good survival knife" discussion. I am not going to argue the Swiss Army Knife vs. the Becker BK9. Was that Elk shot with a .22 in a life or death, post SHTF, survival situation? And I'm sorry that I have the skill to load ammunition. No forget that, I'll not apologize for that. I have made horrendous sacrifices for the preps that I have. I am not financially well to do. But I know that "limitations" is not a word I want to hear when I need that rifle to perform in order to feed or protect my family. And furthermore, the police and military having different needs and expectations is where the logic drops off. We will have the exact same....and I say again....the exact same needs and expectations in that situation but with nobody passing out free food at the end.


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

bigwheel said:


> I cant really figure out what yall are arguing about. I have a theory there have been more deer killed in Texas with a .22 LR than any other round maybe only playing second fiddle to a .30-30. Should be good enough to protect the home stead. Dont make me even mention the biggest Kodiak bear killed in Canada in 1956 by an ***** lady with a single shot .22. No telling how many have perished in the hood and barrio by the self same caliber. Yall make me crazy sometimes.


You are absolutely right. What was I thinking? I can't even imagine why larger caliber firearms would ever even exist. But, seriously my favorite deer rifles are my .243 and .270. Throwing my .222 in for accuracy. But I am not talking about what could be possible, I'm talking about survival. Not sport, survival.

And thank you for helping me to make my point. That Kodiak is charging you. You will be killed. I hold out two rifles....choose one. .300 mag or .22lr....your choice?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> Nope, I'm here in the back country mountains of WV. Gotta say I never saw someone make a three hundred yard shot with a .22! You must be very, very good. And again, the reality is not 25 years after the SHTF. Rusty guns and all....lol. I can't stop laughing. And even 20 feet outside your window, you are not dropping that deer with a .22! You will track that thing for miles. I had a clean head shot on one in '86 from 30 feet. It bounced off his skull.
> 
> They are fun though, and a good way to teach gun safety.


Why would I want to try to shoot a rabbit at 300 yards? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Sir, I have (to put it in one of the biggest understatements I have ever made) more than one gun. My deer hunting rifle is a 7.62x54R VEPR with a rail mounted Leupold VX-6 3-18 x 50 optic. Probably not as fancy of a rig as some folks, but it does pretty well with the whitetails up to 200 yards (that's as long of a field of fire I have on my place, so having a longer range gun, for me, isn't really much of a priority... although I have shot it at 300 at a range off a bipod and pulled a sub 3 inch grouping, which is good enough to kill Mr. Buck.

.22's are fine for what they are for, I don't really get why you are so opposed to them. No, they aren't deer hunting guns. No, they aren't home protection guns. So? I don't want to shoot a crow at 70 yards with a 7.62x54R shell that can still kill somebody a mile on the other side of where it (briefly) entered and exited the exploding crow.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> Fair enough, AJ. In that instance, I can't argue the shot. And, as far as pest control, .22 is great as well. But I'm trying to make a point about hunting and defense in a survival/post SHTF event when that shot means life or death for your family. Be it "bad guys" or food for the table, I will not trust a .22 for either job when I have calibers that are better suited for the task. That small game may be the first we've seen in days or weeks, its getting the 12 gauge treatment. Fair enough?


Fair enough, but I'm still going to use a 22 in a SHTF situation. I'm going to shoot ducks on the pond, geese standing in the field, deer at the salt lick ... It's gonna be quiet and it's not gonna waste any meat, because I don't eat brains.

If I need to fight off a zombie horde, I'm NOT gonna grab the 22. If I need to shoot something 3/4mile away, I'll be grabbing my 408 cheytac based wildcat (and the custom reloads) instead of the 22. If I need to discourage a group of looters in my front yard, I'm likely to have a 12ga in my hands. If I need a medium range hunting rifle I'll grab a 7Rem Mag, 7mm-08, 243, 300wsm, 338RUM, 50cal muzzleloader, 357mag rifle or one of the heavy pistols.

All the above have their use. If I'm going to teach someone to shoot, I'll grab the 22. If it's 10 years after SHTF, I'll melt some lead and cast some 357 bullets, dump the powder out of a 12ga shell and use 20% of it in each bullet (for about 700fps lead loads).

There is no reason to argue about which rifle/caliber is 'the best', because there is no 'best' cartridge for all situations. You asked why everyone is all hot and bothered about 22's and we gave you the reasons. Nobody said they were the best for big game hunting, home defense ...

AJ


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> This is so similar to the "What makes a good survival knife" discussion. I am not going to argue the Swiss Army Knife vs. the Becker BK9. Was that Elk shot with a .22 in a life or death, post SHTF, survival situation? And I'm sorry that I have the skill to load ammunition. No forget that, I'll not apologize for that. I have made horrendous sacrifices for the preps that I have. I am not financially well to do. But I know that "limitations" is not a word I want to hear when I need that rifle to perform in order to feed or protect my family. And furthermore, the police and military having different needs and expectations is where the logic drops off. We will have the exact same....and I say again....the exact same needs and expectations in that situation but with nobody passing out free food at the end.


Ummm, I think the difference between your family eating and not eating when you take that shot would qualify as a survival situation. Hungry children waiting at home is a lot of burden to bear when you're pulling that trigger and it HAS TO COUNT.

And maybe that's just me. Since apparently, my logic dropped off somewhere. But whatever.

If anyone finds my logic laying around, can you pick it up and get it back to me?


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

And yeah, I got NO freaking sense of humor right now about people shooting high powered rifles in situations where they shouldn't be. My buddy's truck was hit while he was driving down the road Thursday by what appears to be a round the size of a .308. He's fine, but the bed of his truck had a nice dime sized hole and a big ass indention where the bullet hit.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> You are absolutely right. What was I thinking? I can't even imagine why larger caliber firearms would ever even exist. But, seriously my favorite deer rifles are my .243 and .270. Throwing my .222 in for accuracy. But I am not talking about what could be possible, I'm talking about survival. Not sport, survival.
> 
> And thank you for helping me to make my point. That Kodiak is charging you. You will be killed. I hold out two rifles....choose one. .300 mag or .22lr....your choice?


AMF,
No one is saying they are going to the .22 LR as their first line of defense, most of us are set up with multiple calibers like you. This was a simply a discussion on .22LR nothing more nothing less. I've easily got 3 0 or 40 times the number of rounds of .22LR than 5.56 or larger, that's it just an observation. It was just a fun discussion. Ease up big guy! Nobody is forcing you to use your .22LR on zombies!

Wait a minute!!!! .22 LR effectiveness on zombies?

Next up a discussion on .17 HMR and its arch enemy the .338 Lapua Mag.


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## Salt-N-Pepper (Aug 18, 2014)

Slippy said:


> Next up a discussion on .17 HMR and its arch enemy the .338 Lapua Mag.


Dude, .50BMG all the way. Go big or go home.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Slippy said:


> ...
> 
> Next up a discussion on .17 HMR and its arch enemy the .338 Lapua Mag.


I owe you a beer for that one!!! hahahahah

AJ

ps: I vote 338LM because I hate cleaning those itsy bitsy .17 bores! Other than that it's a wash!!!


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Why would I want to try to shoot a rabbit at 300 yards? I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Sir, I have (to put it in one of the biggest understatements I have ever made) more than one gun. My deer hunting rifle is a 7.62x54R VEPR with a rail mounted Leupold VX-6 3-18 x 50 optic. Probably not as fancy of a rig as some folks, but it does pretty well with the whitetails up to 200 yards (that's as long of a field of fire I have on my place, so having a longer range gun, for me, isn't really much of a priority... although I have shot it at 300 at a range off a bipod and pulled a sub 3 inch grouping, which is good enough to kill Mr. Buck.
> 
> .22's are fine for what they are for, I don't really get why you are so opposed to them. No, they aren't deer hunting guns. No, they aren't home protection guns. So? I don't want to shoot a crow at 70 yards with a 7.62x54R shell that can still kill somebody a mile on the other side of where it (briefly) entered and exited the exploding crow.


I know, my friend. Its just that everywhere we look people are trying to prepare for a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI type situation and are advising each other that some form of .22 is the best choice for various reasons. I just snapped from one too many .22 mentions. I fear that many people, just getting started will actually think that caliber will do the job because people said it will. When clearly there are better choices. Heck, I love .22's


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Salt-N-Pepper said:


> Dude, .50BMG all the way. Go big or go home.


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## A J (Oct 16, 2014)

Alpha Mike Foxtrot said:


> I know, my friend. Its just that everywhere we look people are trying to prepare for a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI type situation and are advising each other that some form of .22 is the best choice for various reasons. I just snapped from one too many .22 mentions. I fear that many people, just getting started will actually think that caliber will do the job because people said it will. When clearly there are better choices. Heck, I love .22's


If someone is worried about prepping and don't own firearms, I'll be recommending a 22 every single time. Because having a heavier gun will just make it more expensive for them to learn. I'd recommend "Get a 22lr and 5000 rounds of ammo", practice every week, ask knowledgable folks for help learning how to shoot. When the 5000 rounds are gone, lets discuss your 'firearms' needs.

AJ


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

Hey, that .17 HMR is no joke. Those things are little demon shots. I borrowed my friends in Ohio and killed a giant doe no problem. And I will add, that if we had been discussing a .22mag I would not have been so intent on arguing. But I cant advocate the .17 HM2


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

A J said:


> If someone is worried about prepping and don't own firearms, I'll be recommending a 22 every single time. Because having a heavier gun will just make it more expensive for them to learn. I'd recommend "Get a 22lr and 5000 rounds of ammo", practice every week, ask knowledgable folks for help learning how to shoot. When the 5000 rounds are gone, lets discuss your 'firearms' needs.
> 
> AJ


I'm in total agreement. I'm taking the same approach with my son.


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## bigdogbuc (Mar 23, 2012)

I have said, many times, if it hit the fan, and I had only one choice, I would take a Mosin M44, hands down, but only half a hairs width over an AR-15. But no one should ever discount the value of a .22....


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## Alpha Mike Foxtrot (Sep 2, 2014)

You are right. I think a .22 is awesome as a small caliber rifle. My .22/.410 over under stays on my wheeler in the field with me at all times. Damn groundhog holes and cattle don't mix well.


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