# 5 gallon food preps for neighbors?



## Xavier (Jan 30, 2019)

Thinking about putting together several 5 gallon buckets with food for a couple of neighbors with whom I'm friends, but haven't revealed my preps, but have had light conversations about hedging for the future. I figure each 5 gallon bucket can store enough food for a week? (Family of 4 in each case, 2 adult, 2 kids) Staples only. What fits? What's best? Initial thoughts:

15lb rice
10lb beans
10 cans spam/tuna
10 cans veggies
A few protein bars
can opener
life-straw


What should I be thinking about, what am i missing? Might consider a 2nd bucket for each family with "essentials" and I know a week of food is just a buffer if the SHTF.

Edit - this will be stored at my house.


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Dont let it sit around enough to reach the expiry dates on the canned goods. I am still throwing stuff away from when we stocked up a few years ago.


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## Ragnarök (Aug 4, 2014)

Xavier said:


> Thinking about putting together several 5 gallon buckets with food for a couple of neighbors with whom I'm friends, but haven't revealed my preps, but have had light conversations about hedging for the future. I figure each 5 gallon bucket can store enough food for a week? (Family of 4 in each case, 2 adult, 2 kids) Staples only. What fits? What's best? Initial thoughts:
> 
> 15lb rice
> 10lb beans
> ...


It is a great thing to help out your neighbors and friends. Having said that I would definitely not give out large amounts of supplies at one time. That action will have a very dangerous reaction...what happens in two months or six months after the crap hits the windmill?

You have become the provider of three families, and your family will starve.

If they are true friends I would encourage them to prep for two weeks at first. This is not looked at oddly at all. Natural disaster is your talking point and it's an easy sell.

Do not show your cards...ever.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

you plan on wearing a Santa Claus costume or perhaps the Easter Bunny when you're making these deliveries?

because you certainly as hell don't want them knowing you have ANYTHING to spare - just a simple discussion about prepping and them perhaps observing a few things over the years - could be enough damage already ...

don't be one of the naive that doesn't believe what desperate people will do to survive - almost no decision between some guy living and their kids/family >>>> don't ever forget that ....


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

I'd have to think about this for a while...

OK, here's my thoughts on it. If and only if your neighbor's wife was smokin' hot, and their kids had strong backs to dig moats and such...providing them some nutrition might be a good idea.

Might as well bitch slap your neighbor and put him to work on the chain gang hauling buckets of shit down to the place where you burn shit while you provide some sustanence for his wife...

Hope this helps! :vs_peace:



Xavier said:


> Thinking about putting together several 5 gallon buckets with food for a couple of neighbors with whom I'm friends, but haven't revealed my preps, but have had light conversations about hedging for the future. I figure each 5 gallon bucket can store enough food for a week? (Family of 4 in each case, 2 adult, 2 kids) Staples only. What fits? What's best? Initial thoughts:
> 
> 15lb rice
> 10lb beans
> ...


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

The only way I'd ever consider delivering such a 'gift' is in the dead of night. And only if I know for 100% certainty I'll not be detected. Just leave it at the door and sneak back home the long way. So they would have NO CLUE where it came from.

And, of course, I'd be just as surprised as they are when they tell me what they got because,....... well,......... I got one too.


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## Xavier (Jan 30, 2019)

As much as I appreciate the OpSec angle of the replies, can we focus on the contents of the bucket first and foremost? I'm with BPH though, it'd be more anonymous if anything.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

Xavier said:


> Thinking about putting together several 5 gallon buckets with food for a couple of neighbors with whom I'm friends, but haven't revealed my preps, but have had light conversations about hedging for the future. I figure each 5 gallon bucket can store enough food for a week? (Family of 4 in each case, 2 adult, 2 kids) Staples only. What fits? What's best? Initial thoughts:
> 
> 15lb rice
> 10lb beans
> ...


I think you are very nice, for trying to think of helping. Maybe, I would suggest, an empty five gallon bucket, with a lid, and a note, saying that the bucket is for prepping for the uncertain future. On this list, instruct them to buy two items, every payday, to put in the bucket.
Then the list you had. 
maybe even a copy of the book "One Second After".
If they don't heed your "anonymous gift bucket" your out a six bucks and a book.
And, let them store it at their house, maybe even leave an empty on your porch too.


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## Deebo (Oct 27, 2012)

On the serious question, i have never tried to fit that much stuff in a bucket. I kinda doubt that it is even possible to fit 20 canned goods in a bucket? And then add rice and beans..
But. I do like your thinking.


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## Chipper (Dec 22, 2012)

How about a case of MRE's. Cause if they haven't figured out how to feed themselves, cooking will be another issue.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Not worth the risk to me and mine. Sorry, can't put OPSEC aside.


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## Slippy (Nov 14, 2013)

Xavier said:


> As much as I appreciate the OpSec angle of the replies, can we focus on the contents of the bucket first and foremost? I'm with BPH though, it'd be more anonymous if anything.


Why not just put some EBT cards up in the buckets? :vs_blush:


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## Kauboy (May 12, 2014)

Our long-ago good friend on here, @PaulS (hoping he sees the notification and returns) taught a very important lesson on this topic.

In short, NEVER be the guy who *has* things. Be the guy who can *get* things.
They don't have to know where it comes from. They just need to know that you are the one that can get it, and that means keeping you happy and safe for as long as possible.
You "know a guy", or "know a place", but you yourself don't actually have the goods they need. Having goods makes you a target. Having knowledge makes you an asset.
Your life can be threatened for the things you have, but threatening your life for the things you know will bear no fruit. They can kill you and take your things. If they kill you without gaining your knowledge, they still starve. Keeping you alive is in their best interest.

Handouts breed one thing. Return visits. You don't want that.
You can give out enough for maybe one meal. Make it out to be literally all you can spare, and that you'll be completely out tomorrow.
No buckets. No wrapping. No pretty ribbons. Just enough to get them through one more day... but you know a guy... :tango_face_wink:


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## Prepared One (Nov 5, 2014)

Your going to have enough to deal with after SHTF without painting a target on your back. While admirable, I would not chance it.


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## AquaHull (Jun 10, 2012)

bigwheel said:


> Dont let it sit around enough to reach the expiry dates on the canned goods. I am still Eating(throwing) stuff away from when we stocked up a few years ago.


FIFY:vs_cool:


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## gawntrail (Jan 31, 2019)

Deebo said:


> I think you are very nice, for trying to think of helping. Maybe, I would suggest, an empty five gallon bucket, with a lid, and a note, saying that the bucket is for prepping for the uncertain future. On this list, instruct them to buy two items, every payday, to put in the bucket.
> Then the list you had.
> maybe even a copy of the book "One Second After".
> If they don't heed your "anonymous gift bucket" your out a six bucks and a book.
> And, let them store it at their house, maybe even leave an empty on your porch too.


Solid suggestion.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Xavier said:


> As much as I appreciate the OpSec angle of the replies, can we focus on the contents of the bucket first and foremost? I'm with BPH though, it'd be more anonymous if anything.


Sorry dude but when you're talking about survival, OPSEC is critical.

First things first. The least expensive and long lasting are beans, rice and pasta. Can goods do have an expiration date but most here have eaten out of date food with little to no effect. The main thing to watch there is the can bulging. Or, if it smells funny, toss it. What is a minor case of food poisoning now will be much more serious when meds are not available.

Now on to the second. You may already know this but I'm an old guy so I'm going to humor myself. Once things get to that point (where you feel the need to feed others), the rules will have been thrown out the window. Many will seriously wound or kill for a can of soup or a bag of beans. If you've studied history at all then you know that at times people have resorted to cannibalism. Gangs will be roaming for food, women and liquor. Oh, and more weapons. You MIGHT be able to get away with being covert once but after that, someone will be watching.

I too intend to share but as of this moment I don't have a clue how I'll do it.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Deebo said:


> I think you are very nice, for trying to think of helping. Maybe, I would suggest, an empty five gallon bucket, with a lid, and a note, saying that the bucket is for prepping for the uncertain future. On this list, instruct them to buy two items, every payday, to put in the bucket.
> Then the list you had.
> maybe even a copy of the book "One Second After".
> If they don't heed your "anonymous gift bucket" your out a six bucks and a book.
> And, let them store it at their house, maybe even leave an empty on your porch too.


just asking for trouble - at the very least you're going to start rumors - in this uber charged society even likely to attract police reports ....

reminds me too much of the regular sorry tales of the over exuberant newbies that get themselves in trouble with the relatives and neighbors ....

if these people were at all concerned - they'd find the info themselves - no frigging book is going to get them off their dead azzes ...


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## Maine-Marine (Mar 7, 2014)

the world is going to crap, people are starving, grocery stores are being looted... and you have a little extra to provide your neighbor a bucket of food.... the message is you have extra and are not sharing enough

NO, take them over a couple peanut butter and jelly sammiches and talk about how times are tough and how worried you are


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Chipper said:


> How about a case of MRE's. Cause if they haven't figured out how to feed themselves, cooking will be another issue.


Maybe want to throw in a bottle of Milk of Magnesia too. Heard them MREs cause terminal constipation.


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## gawntrail (Jan 31, 2019)

Illini Warrior said:


> just asking for trouble - at the very least you're going to start rumors - in this uber charged society even likely to attract police reports ....
> 
> reminds me too much of the regular sorry tales of the over exuberant newbies that get themselves in trouble with the relatives and neighbors ....
> 
> if these people were at all concerned - they'd find the info themselves - no frigging book is going to get them off their dead azzes ...


Damn. Reality check. Thank you. My problems are/will be daunting enough. Don't need more.


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

gawntrail said:


> Damn. Reality check. Thank you. My problems are/will be daunting enough. Don't need more.


if you aren't watching what's unfolding in the NW US - Seattle specifically - it's textbook shepple response >>>> they will be getting dumped on with over a foot of snow and little prepared assist available by the city/state ....

be willing to bet only 1 in 100 will be even half inspired to prepare for another event again >>> it's the liberal capitol of the country ....


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

I have to agree with the earlier posters - handing someone a whole bucket of food in a situation of community scarcity is a bad idea. As someone else has said, heading over with a small amount of food because you're "concerned" about your neighbors might make sense if it's early in the catastrophe. From a strategic perspective, starving neighbors is a security issue in SHTF. One might be tempted to save up preps for them. However, the problem is that your neighbors probably have neighbors. Those neighbors probably have neighbors too. So even if you prep for four neighbors out on every side, eventually someone's neighbor will realize that the people over there seem to be not starving. 

Saving up enough food for your whole community, or even for a localized community of five or so families, isn't really practical. Ideally you will have enough for you and your family for a year or more. Unless you're saving up an equivalent amount for neighbors, you are going to create a situation where people know you have food and once they are starving they may kill you to get yours. If you're in an area where you only have 2 or three other families and you can afford to stock up enough food for them for the same amount of time you have prepped for yourself, it might be a good idea. When and if you all run out of food at approximately the same time you will have been the one who kept them alive for a year. Ideally you would have worked with your neighbors to build up food production during that time. In theory at the end of the year you could have crafted a well functioning agricultural microcommunity. 

Instead of saving up a bucket of food for them, I would recommend stocking up on a cheap item of value that can be traded for essentials in a time of food scarcity - salt. A fifty pound bag of salt can be had for seven or eight bucks. If stored correctly, it also keeps forever. One could imagine stockpiling enough salt for all your neighbors for several years fairly cheaply. Salt can be buried in buckets in places where thieves wouldn't be able to find it or easily access it. You could give them salt and they could go out and trade it for the food they need. Once they have a bunch of salt it is unlikely that they will try to come take yours because you can't survive on salt. You could say that you bought a bunch of salt to defrost your pavement or something. It wouldn't look suspicious. If your neighbors wonder why you seem well fed, tell them that you have traded some of your salt for food here and there. You could stop by every once in a while to share some food with them and explain that you traded for it. Encourage them to do the same with the salt you gave them. That would be a good way to make sure your neighbors don't starve to death and also not make yourself a target. You wouldn't be showing your hand but you would still establish yourself as a neighbor of value who is doing their best to help out and who they want to keep around. 

You could also introduce them to the idea of opsec with your salt. You could tell them "Ok, here's the deal. I have a lot of salt. I bought it to de-ice my pavement and now this stuff seems to be really valuable. I've been trading it for food and stuff. I want to give you and your family this giant bag of salt so you can trade too, also here are some beans I traded for to help you get by. Whatever you do, please, please don't tell anyone I have a bunch of salt. I've hidden it on my property because I don't want to become a target - this stuff is like gold nowadays. If anyone asks where you got it, just say you had it in your garage. Don't trade all of it for one thing, trade a little of it here and there for stuff you need. If you run out, I can probably give you some more, but if strangers start showing up asking me for salt, they won't get any and I'll know who told them." 

You could store 500 pounds of salt in five gallon buckets for a neighbor family for less than a hundred bucks. If they trade a pound or two a day for food and other items of value, that could keep them from starving for a year or more. It's cheaper than food and it's smarter opsec.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

Jayhawker said:


> Instead of saving up a bucket of food for them, I would recommend stocking up on a cheap item of value that can be traded for essentials in a time of food scarcity - salt. A fifty pound bag of salt can be had for seven or eight bucks. If stored correctly, it also keeps forever. .


Yep! Salt sits out there for millions of years before we scoop it up... it sure does store well LOL! I have many pails of salt stashed... as well as other spices. There was a time centuries ago when spices were as valuable as coin. There is an antiquated term "below the salt". Monarchs and Barons would have these looooongggg tables. At the head was the master, and his immediate family: wife, kids. As one went further down the table, there sat less important ranking members of the household. There was a point below which the salt could NOT be passed... and you were referred to as "below the salt".


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Jayhawker said:


> I have to agree with the earlier posters - handing someone a whole bucket of food in a situation of community scarcity is a bad idea. As someone else has said, heading over with a small amount of food because you're "concerned" about your neighbors might make sense if it's early in the catastrophe. From a strategic perspective, starving neighbors is a security issue in SHTF. One might be tempted to save up preps for them. However, the problem is that your neighbors probably have neighbors. Those neighbors probably have neighbors too. So even if you prep for four neighbors out on every side, eventually someone's neighbor will realize that the people over there seem to be not starving.
> 
> Saving up enough food for your whole community, or even for a localized community of five or so families, isn't really practical. Ideally you will have enough for you and your family for a year or more. Unless you're saving up an equivalent amount for neighbors, you are going to create a situation where people know you have food and once they are starving they may kill you to get yours. If you're in an area where you only have 2 or three other families and you can afford to stock up enough food for them for the same amount of time you have prepped for yourself, it might be a good idea. When and if you all run out of food at approximately the same time you will have been the one who kept them alive for a year. Ideally you would have worked with your neighbors to build up food production during that time. In theory at the end of the year you could have crafted a well functioning agricultural microcommunity.
> 
> ...


guy - I always hope that someone like you realize your mistake in exposing your prepping before it's tooooo late >>>> there's going to be plenty of people passing away - all kinds of violence - life will become super cheap ... people killing each other for very little reasoning compared to today's US society - the very last thing you'll want is to be out there standing out from the new norms - it'll be a death sentence ...

the one service that these prepper sites can serve is a basic training to somewhat mentally & emotionally prepare us what to expect - gives us that advantage over the sheeple ... some of these SHTFs will be very deceptive to the naive - life continueing on - people sharing like the foodliner will be re-stocked tomorrow - the gooberment announcing that the crisis will end "next week" >>>> until that realization starts to hit home - that's why your OPSEC is all the more important and has to be more solid than ever - new instincts will evolve - what never would have been noticed before is suddenly important ...

read up on the experiences of Selco during the Balkan War and what's currently happening in Venezuela and South Africa - just a glimpse of what you can expect - not eazy to imagine a long term neighbor turning on you ...


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

The thing is, the salt cover in my opinion is good opsec. If anyone is going to notice that you seem to not be losing weight while the rest of the world starves, it's going to be your neighbors. They are going to notice whether you like it or not, so being able to claim that it's because of your good fortune in having bought a bunch of salt for your driveway last season is better than just telling them to f*** off and go away. If you don't have a good cover story, they are likely to assume that you have a lot of food stockpiled and then come to try and raid you. In that event, you're in the likely scenario of a shootout with your neighbors, in which case it's easy to say "well I would win because I'm so well armed," but bullets tend to disregard the best laid plans of mice and men. 

If your plan is to bug in on your own property, which is my plan, then you will need a way to explain your material situation to your neighbors who will inevitably notice eventually. In a long term SHTF, you are going to need to be outside, you can't just hunker down in your bunker. You're going to need to be chopping wood, getting water, planting crops. While you're doing those things your ribs won't be showing and your clothes will be fitting, which are both red flags that will make you a target. So unless your plan includes starvation on par with the general population so you can blend in, a cover story for those in your immediate vicinity is an essential precaution. If your plan is to bugout to a place far away from anyone this probably wouldn't make sense, but if you are going to have neighbors, they will eventually want an explanation. 

So let's say that after sharing your salt with them they decide to come and steal all your salt, and they come onto your land to steal it. You can get into a shooting match with them I suppose and you might win if you realize they are there in time, but prepping means mentally preparing yourself for worst case scenarios. Let's say they get the jump on you, and now they have a gun to your head and demand that you give them everything you have. You can give them one of the salt caches you put away to meter out to them over time and say that now they have all of it. That's better than having to show them one of your food caches. As far as they know, the salt is your only resource of value, the currency you used to keep from starving. If you're lucky they may leave satisfied that they won. 

But the point is that if you are sharing the salt with them to begin with it will make it more likely that they see you as a valuable ally instead of a rich greedy target. If you keep your resource caches hidden they won't know what you have beyond what you tell them. Don't keep lots of food in your house because there is always the chance that people may come and try to steal it. If the local government sends out parties to confiscate food from "food hoarders" or if someone with hostile intent is in your house for some reason, you don't want to have a bunch of food lying around to make you a target. Only ever have a few days worth of food in sight at any given time. Then the salt can cover for why you have it. Otherwise they may see a few days worth of food and start to think that you have more lying around. You need a good story to explain why you have what you have. Lots of people stock up on salt for the winter. It's a good story.


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## StratMaster (Dec 26, 2017)

I plan to start wearing a Mu Mu to cover my steak gut during SHTF...


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Jayhawker said:


> ....... If anyone is going to notice that you seem to not be losing weight while the rest of the world starves, it's going to be your neighbors ......You need a good story to explain why you have what you have. ........


How about; "Look, pal, I feel sorry for you. Really. I do. But back when all the stores were chock full of non-perishable food, I was smart enough to stock up. You, on the other hand, were buying cigarettes and beer. While you were spending a hundred bucks a month on satellite TV, I was spending a hundred a month stockpiling ammo. Instead of buying a thumpy-thump stereo and a lift kit for your truck, you should have invested in a generator and solar panels. While you were frittering your spare time away looking at kitty photos on your $1500 iPhone, I was reading tutorials about how to purify water and planting a garden. You had your chance. You made your choice. You decided to be the grasshopper while I chose to be the ant. And remember, it's not just ME that's armed.... everyone here in this house is well-versed on handling firearms. Now get off my lawn."?


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## Illini Warrior (Jan 24, 2015)

Back Pack Hack said:


> How about; "Look, pal, I feel sorry for you. Really. I do. But back when all the stores were chock full of non-perishable food, I was smart enough to stock up. You, on the other hand, were buying cigarettes and beer. While you were spending a hundred bucks a month on satellite TV, I was spending a hundred a month stockpiling ammo. Instead of buying a thumpy-thump stereo and a lift kit for your truck, you should have invested in a generator and solar panels. While you were frittering your spare time away looking at kitty photos on your $1500 iPhone, I was reading tutorials about how to purify water and planting a garden. You had your chance. You made your choice. You decided to be the grasshopper while I chose to be the ant. And remember, it's not just ME that's armed.... everyone here in this house is well-versed on handling firearms. Now get off my lawn."?


by the time any kind of appreciable notice in bodily stature could be questioned - you won't be having that much contact with people anymore - #1 if you're at all human you won't want to experience the downward spiral that closely - #2 it won't be safe - violence will be everywhere and then there's the inevitable disease factor #3 OPSEC covers it - if it's practiced correctly - if you don't - there won't be anything left to worry about ....


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## The Tourist (Jun 9, 2016)

Xavier said:


> What should I be thinking about, what am i missing?


As an after-thought, I would get a big bucket/bottle of Kirkland Coconut Oil. It's actually not an oil, but a thick white paste. It's a fill in for everything else you do not have. You can cook in it like oil, use it as a butter substitute, and sometimes when I'm down on protein and calories, I just eat a big scoop of it. Obviously, it's from Costco.


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> How about; "Look, pal, I feel sorry for you. Really. I do. But back when all the stores were chock full of non-perishable food, I was smart enough to stock up. You, on the other hand, were buying cigarettes and beer. While you were spending a hundred bucks a month on satellite TV, I was spending a hundred a month stockpiling ammo. Instead of buying a thumpy-thump stereo and a lift kit for your truck, you should have invested in a generator and solar panels. While you were frittering your spare time away looking at kitty photos on your $1500 iPhone, I was reading tutorials about how to purify water and planting a garden. You had your chance. You made your choice. You decided to be the grasshopper while I chose to be the ant. And remember, it's not just ME that's armed.... everyone here in this house is well-versed on handling firearms. Now get off my lawn."?


Ok badass, I guess it's better opsec to flaunt your preps and tell them to f*** off. LOL. You need a backup plan for your backup plan dude. That might work if you live in commifornia or something where people aren't armed, but where I am everyone and their kids are well versed in firearms. That neighbor would round up a possie and you would be dead or ran out of your location in a matter of days.


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Illini Warrior said:


> by the time any kind of appreciable notice in bodily stature could be questioned - you won't be having that much contact with people anymore - #1 if you're at all human you won't want to experience the downward spiral that closely - #2 it won't be safe - violence will be everywhere and then there's the inevitable disease factor #3 OPSEC covers it - if it's practiced correctly - if you don't - there won't be anything left to worry about ....


If you live in a place where you can expect to not have to ever be seen by people, then like I said this wouldn't make sense. This scenario we're discussing is one in which you have neighbors, which most people even in rural areas have. I guess you could just stay in your bunker and wait for them to starve to death, but it takes a long time to starve. After the better part of a month without food your neighbors will likely see you while you're going about your daily activities. A significant reduction in bodily stature could happen less than a month after a major SHTF event. Also it's likely that local governments will continue functioning in some capacity at first. That means if a mayor or local bigwig gets a hardon for you because they have a hunch that you have a bunch of stored food because your neighbors told them that you seem to be doing good, you could be met with overwhelming force. Let's say you have a group of twenty people. How many people are in your county? How well would your tribe of 20 do against the better part of a nearby township?

I guess it depends on what you're prepping for. If you're prepping for an instant total breakdown of all societal norms, then in that fantasy world having a cover story wouldn't really matter. But that isn't how societies collapse typically. Even if all the power and water stopped functioning all of a sudden due to an EMP or some such, the breakdown would take time. Most likely scenarios don't involve instant anarchy. Look, it doesn't cost all that much to invest in a cover story. It's just like any other prep - what if someone tries to take it? Well then I guess you do your best in the circumstances you have.

At least if someone comes to steal the salt you put away as a cover story you can give them that and not your important preps. Or you could try running elsewhere I guess. I'm responding to someone who, by the sound of it, is planning on trying to stay in place with neighbors nearby. Go around shooting neighbors when a nearby city council is still functioning in some capacity and you'll find yourself on the end of a rope real quick.

Talking about being the grey man is good and all, but you can't be the grey man to the people next door. They are going to know you and know where you sleep at night and eventually they are going to know that you aren't dying. Even in a rural area, if you are trying to survive on a plot of land with a neighbor half a mile away, go ahead and try to avoid them for a year. It won't happen that way. When you do meet it's wise to meet them as a friend and not as an enemy. Unless you're heading for the hills without a soul anywhere nearby, the externalities of the local community will be a political landscape that you will have to exist in whether you like it or not. It's not good opsec to just skip ahead in your mind to the end of the worst of the mayhem when everyone has already starved or died of disease and now you have to deal with the anarchy that is left at the end. First you have to make it through the collapse.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Jayhawker said:


> Ok badass, I guess it's better opsec to flaunt your preps and tell them to f*** off. LOL. You need a backup plan for your backup plan dude. That might work if you live in commifornia or something where people aren't armed, but where I am everyone and their kids are well versed in firearms. That neighbor would round up a possie and you would be dead or ran out of your location in a matter of days.


You said they already know you have stuff.

You keep saying we need a plan. And a back up plan.

So...... what's your plan?


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## bigwheel (Sep 22, 2014)

Well in a true end of the world scenario the commune plan seems to be the way to go. Ya know the cute hippy chicks are going to be scared and somebody is going to have to repopulate the earth and such things. Let us look on the bright side of this issue. Thanks.


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## BookWorm (Jul 8, 2018)

I commend your thought process of wanting to help. I assume they are good people worth saving, otherwise you wouldn't bother. I like the idea of giving them an empty bucket and the book one second after... but if you were set on helping them here is how I would do it. 

Take the bucket to your local grocery store and pack it as you find items. Include some matches, candles and a flashlight with extra batteries. I'd also include a notebook with a few pages of very helpful hints on how to stay alive and offer suggestions of maybe talking to neighbors about forming a group. Any positive idea you can put in their head is a good one. 

Your list of food was good, did it include rolls or granola bars?


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> You said they already know you have stuff.
> 
> You keep saying we need a plan. And a back up plan.
> 
> So...... what's your plan?


I said that your neighbors will realize that you're not starving, yeah. Eventually they will know that you aren't starving and there really isn't any way of changing that unless you plan on only working during the night for a very extended period of time. Starving neighbors is a security issue. So if you're planning on being prepared with food supplies as a backup plan for a time of scarcity, having a cover story for why you aren't starving is a good plan. If you're crafting a cover story, having the "good fortune" of happening to have a trading item like salt that is cheap to stock up on now is a decent cover story. That's all.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Jayhawker said:


> I said that your neighbors will realize that you're not starving, yeah. Eventually they will know that you aren't starving and there really isn't any way of changing that unless you plan on only working during the night for a very extended period of time. Starving neighbors is a security issue. So if you're planning on being prepared with food supplies as a backup plan for a time of scarcity, having a cover story for why you aren't starving is a good plan. If you're crafting a cover story, having the "good fortune" of happening to have a trading item like salt that is cheap to stock up on now is a decent cover story. That's all.


So another question:

Why don't you answer my question?


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

Jayhawker said:


> I said that your neighbors will realize that you're not starving, yeah. Eventually they will know that you aren't starving and there really isn't any way of changing that unless you plan on only working during the night for a very extended period of time. Starving neighbors is a security issue. So if you're planning on being prepared with food supplies as a backup plan for a time of scarcity, having a cover story for why you aren't starving is a good plan. If you're crafting a cover story, having the "good fortune" of happening to have a trading item like salt that is cheap to stock up on now is a decent cover story. That's all.


First issue that no one has addressed yet with this plan is this. Bartering won't happen right away. In fact, it will probably be a while before it can start. Things will have to settle down some before people even consider it. In a SHTF scenario, depending on what it is, chaos will last quite a bit. No one is going to chance until things settle down.


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> So another question:
> 
> Why don't you answer my question?


Not sure what you're asking for here. A detailed outline of all my prepping plans? That would take way more time and energy than I have to spend. This post was originally about stocking preps for neighbors, it has expanded into a discussion of how best to deal with neighbors, and if it is wise to share with them at all. If you read what I've already posted I've stated my opinion that stocking food for them probably isn't a good idea unless you are somehow rich enough to stock as much for them as you do for yourself. It is also my opinion that telling neighbors who inevitably notice you're not in a desperate situation to stay away or you'll shoot while they are likely to be starving probably isn't a good idea either. That would be a good plan for dealing with random interlopers, but if your neighbors are dug in right next door, it changes the social calculus of opsec. Think of it like a poker game. Your neighbors are also playing poker. They know you have a hand. You don't want to show your hand, but they know that you have cards. You might be able to tell random strangers that you've already folded or aren't playing or better yet just avoid them, but your neighbors are already in the same poker game you're in. So it's a good strategy to bluff. Hopefully you won't have to explain why you're not starving to anyone, but if you do find yourself in a situation where you may need to explain, your immediate neighbors are the most likely people to be asking. So it would be wise to think ahead of time of a strategy for how to deal with them that doesn't cause desperate people to try to raid you in the middle of the night. Because "get off my lawn, go starve" isn't a very great way to endear yourself to neighbors who may be desperate enough to try to raid you. I would rather avoid killing my neighbors in SHTF.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Jayhawker said:


> Not sure what you're asking for here. A detailed outline of all my prepping plans? That would take way more time and energy than I have to spend. This post was originally about stocking preps for neighbors, it has expanded into a discussion of how best to deal with neighbors, and if it is wise to share with them at all. If you read what I've already posted I've stated my opinion that stocking food for them probably isn't a good idea unless you are somehow rich enough to stock as much for them as you do for yourself. It is also my opinion that telling neighbors who inevitably notice you're not in a desperate situation to stay away or you'll shoot while they are likely to be starving probably isn't a good idea either. That would be a good plan for dealing with random interlopers, but if your neighbors are dug in right next door, it changes the social calculus of opsec. Think of it like a poker game. Your neighbors are also playing poker. They know you have a hand. You don't want to show your hand, but they know that you have cards. You might be able to tell random strangers that you've already folded or aren't playing or better yet just avoid them, but your neighbors are already in the same poker game you're in. So it's a good strategy to bluff. Hopefully you won't have to explain why you're not starving to anyone, but if you do find yourself in a situation where you may need to explain, your immediate neighbors are the most likely people to be asking. So it would be wise to think ahead of time of a strategy for how to deal with them that doesn't cause desperate people to try to raid you in the middle of the night. Because "get off my lawn, go starve" isn't a very great way to endear yourself to neighbors who may be desperate enough to try to raid you. I would rather avoid killing my neighbors in SHTF.


So I'll just take it your answer is "I'm not starving because people trade me their food for my salt." Folks are starving, so they come to you and give you food in exchange for all the salt you've stored up. Yep, makes perfect sense.


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## stevekozak (Oct 4, 2015)

After following this painful thread for some days, I have concluded the answer is to just not have any neighbors. Who wants neighbors?


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

inceptor said:


> First issue that no one has addressed yet with this plan is this. Bartering won't happen right away. In fact, it will probably be a while before it can start. Things will have to settle down some before people even consider it. In a SHTF scenario, depending on what it is, chaos will last quite a bit. No one is going to chance until things settle down.


That's a good point. No contact with anyone for at least a few weeks would be the optimal choice. But there may be reasons why this is impossible. It may be the tail end of planting season, for instance. You may need to get your crops in within a week in order to have a good chance of a decent harvest, requiring time outside, potentially near the road, which is basically a public area. Depending on if you have a woodstand and a water source or not, you may need to leave your property for some reason to gather things like firewood or water. Depending on how your homestead is situated and if you have livestock or not, you may need to be near your property line to take care of your animals, etc. Your neighbors may approach you asking for news or information. It is, like you said, very much dependent on which SHTF scenario we're discussing. In a pandemic or bioweapon SHTF, people may be so wary of contact with others that a barter economy doesn't pop up for a year or more. It's very situation dependent. After Hurricane Katrina the barter system started up fairly quickly when the people who didn't leave realized that the stores wouldn't be stocking goods any time soon. If you read about the balkan war experiences of Selco, during that conflict there was definitely a barter economy. Some things were too precious to barter, but many staples were basically currency that could be traded. If Americans who are used to 2000-4000 calories a day are suddenly not having their grocery stores restocked for some reason, it wouldn't take an incredibly long time for people to start trying to trade for food, I wouldn't think, even if it was dangerous to do so. I'm not saying that having a cache of barter goods as a cover story is a perfect plan, but I do think that in a long term SHTF a cover story of some sort would be a wise thing to invest in. Because after all, your neighbors will eventually realize you aren't dead, and you can't always avoid them, even if you want to. A pile of salt that could be explained as existing not because you're one of those "prepper types" but because you wanted to de-ice your driveway could also satiate raiding parties sent by imposers of martial law or the remnants of your local government. In a time of emergency the local government could be your biggest problem. They may for instance declare "hoarding" illegal, and send possies from door to door to search houses to take any resources and then distribute them as they see fit. If you give them a cache of food, they may assume you have more, and keep searching. If you begrudgingly give up a pile of salt in your garage, they may leave satisfied that they have obtained your resources and then move on to the next house.


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Back Pack Hack said:


> So I'll just take it your answer is "I'm not starving because people trade me their food for my salt." Folks are starving, so they come to you and give you food in exchange for all the salt you've stored up. Yep, makes perfect sense.


Salt is used to preserve food. Salt is not food by itself. So it does make perfect sense, actually. Let's say you and your group aren't getting enough calories but you kill a deer. That's food until it spoils, but if you don't preserve it you will have a lot less food. Salt helps with that. It makes way more food available to you if you have it, so much so that it is probably worth trading some of your venison in order to get it. People living on rice and beans will want to add flavor to what they are eating. So much so that trading some of their rice and beans to get some salt would make sense to them. Even hunter gatherer societies traded in salt. And it isn't just salt. There are many barter items that will retain value even during a time of resource scarcity. Things like hygiene items, toilet paper, soap and the like. Having hundreds of pounds of that stuff probably wouldn't be as cheap to purchase or as easy to explain, but it sure would make a better cover story than "get off my lawn." Obviously people wouldn't somehow magically know to "come to you" to trade their stuff. In theory in a barter economy you would need to go to public places where the people are in order to conduct trade. Places like towns, public lakes and wildlife preserves, campsites, RV parks. But I'm sure you're aware of that. Keep trolling me if you want dude. Honestly if you want to tell neighbors in SHTF to "go away or I'll shoot," more power to you. I wouldn't advise it, but you have every right to conduct yourself as you see fit.


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## inceptor (Nov 19, 2012)

@Jayhawker I think it's wonderful you live in an area where if civil unrest breaks out people will still be civil and start bartering right away. People will know to gather in public places where law and order will be the rule and not the exception. Worrying about people stealing your stuff won't happen to you, what a relief it must be to you.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Jayhawker said:


> Salt is used to preserve food. Salt is not food by itself. So it does make perfect sense, actually. Let's say you and your group aren't getting enough calories but you kill a deer. That's food until it spoils, but if you don't preserve it you will have a lot less food. Salt helps with that. It makes way more food available to you if you have it, so much so that it is probably worth trading some of your venison in order to get it. People living on rice and beans will want to add flavor to what they are eating. So much so that trading some of their rice and beans to get some salt would make sense to them. Even hunter gatherer societies traded in salt. And it isn't just salt. There are many barter items that will retain value even during a time of resource scarcity. Things like hygiene items, toilet paper, soap and the like. Having hundreds of pounds of that stuff probably wouldn't be as cheap to purchase or as easy to explain, but it sure would make a better cover story than "get off my lawn." Obviously people wouldn't somehow magically know to "come to you" to trade their stuff. In theory in a barter economy you would need to go to public places where the people are in order to conduct trade. Places like towns, public lakes and wildlife preserves, campsites, RV parks. But I'm sure you're aware of that. Keep trolling me if you want dude. Honestly if you want to tell neighbors in SHTF to "go away or I'll shoot," more power to you. I wouldn't advise it, but you have every right to conduct yourself as you see fit.


OK, now you're moving the goalposts. You started out with "I have salt, that's why I'm well-fed." Now it's "I have food, and I'll trade you some for your salt."

Which is it?


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## Jayhawker (Jan 3, 2019)

Back Pack, I know you're not dense. The salt or other easily explained trading item could be the reason why people would plausibly trade you food and give you the necessary pretense to be able to share some with your neighbors without causing suspicion if you were so inclined to do so. Inceptor, as with any prep, the idea of stocking trading goods is situational dependent. In most scenarios, society wide collapse wouldn't happen in a day. Barter economies pop up surprisingly quickly when people realize that their money doesn't hold value any more. I'm not recommending trying to trade right away or even saying that it's wise to trade at all, but there would be plenty of poorly prepared people who would attempt such a risk. You don't have to actually trade to be able to claim that you traded. Putting your sarcasm aside, I actually am glad that I live in such a place where the outbreak of all out anarchy save something like a nuclear scenario is not particularly likely. In most likely SHTF scenarios a rural well-armed area like mine would attempt and likely succeed in maintaining some semblance or outward appearance of order. I like to prep for the most likely scenarios first, so planning on dealing with social situations in regards to neighbors and local government makes sense to me. How a person should conduct themselves isn't a mathematical calculus, it's entirely situation dependent. Plenty of SHTF scenarios involve needing to explain why you're not starving in the way that is least likely to get you targeted or killed. Sure, plan on nobody finding out that you're not starving, but eventually people might. So if you're bugging in, it's probably not a bad idea to plan on having a way to explain that. If you're bugging out, I guess you could always plan on moving to another location, but eventually you are going to want to settle down. What do you do about the problem of less prepared people asking questions? Kill them on sight? Hey you're a free person, do whatever you want. But shooting on sight sounds to me like a great way to start a war you can't win with superior numbers. So in my opinion it makes sense to contingency plan.


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## Back Pack Hack (Sep 15, 2016)

Jayhawker said:


> Back Pack, I know you're not dense. The salt or other easily explained trading item could be the reason why people would plausibly trade you food and give you the necessary pretense to be able to share some with your neighbors without causing suspicion if you were so inclined to do so............


I must be dense, as I still don't see it.

You have food, and you have salt. Things are so bad that total strangers are knocking on your door, looking for lunch. You answer the door with a cheeseburger in your hand, and say, "No, you can't have any of _my_ food. But I'll give you something you can trade with someone else for _their_ food....." and you hand them an EBT card made of salt.

These people, most likely, have already tapped out the consumables of their friends and family. Now you want them to accept the 'charity' of a bucket of salt?


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