# Post SHTF Gangs



## TGus

Earlier in my life, I worked as a therapist with Juvenal offenders at several correctional institutions. Many of them were gang members, and I feel I've learned a lot about gang activities and psychology.

I think there'll be 3 major types of gangs during SHTF: the Black Market, traditional gangs, and home invasion gangs.

*The Black Market*, (organized crime)
After SHTF, organized crime, traditional gangs, and criminal groups will quickly realize that the coming shortages of everything will net them a big profit. They will hit every warehouse, medical center, and store as soon as they get the chance, and carry away whatever they think will be most valuable and needed by people during the shortage, (food, medicines, drugs, alcohol, etc.). If they can get away with it, they'll even occupy warehouses, and do business from them.

*Traditional Gangs*, (like the Bloods and the Crips)
Traditional gangs are connected to, and used to operating in their local city. They will operate black markets, particularly in drugs, but they will also dominate the people in their turf, extorting food, labor, etc. from the residents in exchange for protecting them. Their turf is important to them, and though they will seek to expand it, they are very reluctant to entirely separate from it. The gangs will initially be so busy setting up structures to get what they can from their local populations that they will rarely fight each other. They may even cooperate until they've bled their turf dry, and have to expand or die. Not every part of every city is a gang's turf, but gangs will expand into them as necessary. Not good news for urban dwellers.

*Home Invasion Gangs* (didn't exist before SHTF)
A home invasion gang is a group of individuals who survive by banding together and taking over homes and all the resources within them, until they are used up, and then the gang repeats the process. During SHTF, there will be a lot of desperate young adults walking the streets, looking for opportunities that will help them survive. They will easily be lured into this type of gang with promises of secure food, shelter, camaraderie, and as much sex as they want. The newbies will be tested out at the most dangerous tasks when taking over the next houses, but if they do well, their status and privileges will be higher than those recruited after them. As there are always plenty of recruits to fill missing spots, eventually a member won't have to do the dangerous work, he'll get the best food, and be able to rape the prettiest girls. It's a good life if you can get it.

These gangs will be well fed, relatively healthy, and well armed, (as they take all guns and ammunition from the houses they overcome). Given how unprepared the average person is for dealing with violence, they will be a formidable threat, as they continue to learn better and better ways to identify and take over even well prepared houses.

It goes without saying, that the best adapted to this type of gang will tend to be sociopaths. It is not to the gang's advantage to let the husbands and fathers go free while the gang rapes their wives and children, so they will be killed, perhaps as target practice for the newbies. It is also not to their advantage for the raped women to be set free afterwards, so the house may be burned with them still tied to their beds.


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## Coastie dad

You're a real ray of sunshine, aren't you?

Glad I don't live in an urban environment. And by the time they move my way, we should be prepared to welcome them.


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## Denton

You forgot another gang; the gang of vets and survival types who will act quickly to do some herd culling.

Some of us already have plans.


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## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> You're a real ray of sunshine, aren't you?
> 
> Glad I don't live in an urban environment. And by the time they move my way, we should be prepared to welcome them.


I wonder if you'll really be prepared for them. By the time they get to you, they may have a lot more experience with firearms and tactics than anyone but a vet.


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## TGus

Denton said:


> You forgot another gang; the gang of vets and survival types who will act quickly to do some herd culling.
> 
> Some of us already have plans.


I'm happy to hear that, but such people are relatively few and far between in my experience. Many gangs may go unchallenged for long periods of time. And even if they lose most of their members in a fight, there're always fresh recruits just around the corner.


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## Coastie dad

TGus said:


> I wonder if you'll really be prepared for them. By the time they get to you, they may have a lot more experience with firearms and tactics than anyone but a vet.


Well, you may be right... because none of us have any experience in the military or with weapons. But we play call of duty and buy a bunch of prepper stuff at the malls.

And we don't have any experience with gangs because we've lived in the country all our lives. Thank goodness your input as a therapist to street punks from years ago will provide valuable insight to those of us benighted by our distance from your east coast reality.


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## Joe

@TGus What you posted sounds plausible. there will be those who will be prepared for these things and those who won't be. It will be survival of the fittest. There will be those of us who live in the rural areas that can form "gangs" as well. as @Denton mentioned.


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## Coastie dad

As fair warning, your stating you were a therapist may have immediately tainted your credibility with me.
Your assuredness that we may well fall prey to the urban animals your lenient ways have created did nothing to bolster that credibility.
But, since you are new, I'll give you a Mulligan. 
Once.


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## Coastie dad

Remember.. there are a bunch of us here who were members of the biggest gangs in the country. We had certain clothes we all wore, had our own jargon, and carried guns. We even had special hand signs we used to communicate with each other.


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## Denton

TGus said:


> I'm happy to hear that, but such people are relatively few and far between in my experience. Many gangs may go unchallenged for long periods of time. And even if they lose most of their members in a fight, there're always fresh recruits just around the corner.


What is your experience? Surely, you don't think we advertise or make known our plans? We are loosely affiliated with no name or logo.


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## A Watchman

Hey Gus .... help me out so I can make sure I am playing fair here ..... after reading a couple of your new threads, are you asking the questions personally, or are you copying and pasting?


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## Ragnarök

It is much more complex than just 3 types of gangs.... Anyways all those punk ass gangsters you see on the news will get quickly cleaned up by military and ex military militias that form communities if the grid goes down. They will secure their areas and look for other ex military groups to strengthen a territory either through peaceful alliance or by war. 

The larger threat could come from cartels since their current cash flow provides them with higher end weaponry, technology, tactics, experience fighting police and military and they have much more intelligent leadership than street gangs.


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## charito

TGus said:


> Earlier in my life, I worked as a therapist with Juvenal offenders at several correctional institutions. Many of them were gang members, and I feel I've learned a lot about gang activities and psychology.
> 
> I think there'll be 3 major types of gangs during SHTF: the Black Market, traditional gangs, and home invasion gangs.
> 
> *The Black Market*, (organized crime)
> After SHTF, organized crime, traditional gangs, and criminal groups will quickly realize that the coming shortages of everything will net them a big profit. They will hit every warehouse, medical center, and store as soon as they get the chance, and carry away whatever they think will be most valuable and needed by people during the shortage, (food, medicines, drugs, alcohol, etc.). If they can get away with it, they'll even occupy warehouses, and do business from them.
> 
> *Traditional Gangs*, (like the Bloods and the Crips)
> Traditional gangs are connected to, and used to operating in their local city. They will operate black markets, particularly in drugs, but they will also dominate the people in their turf, extorting food, labor, etc. from the residents in exchange for protecting them. Their turf is important to them, and though they will seek to expand it, they are very reluctant to entirely separate from it. The gangs will initially be so busy setting up structures to get what they can from their local populations that they will rarely fight each other. They may even cooperate until they've bled their turf dry, and have to expand or die. Not every part of every city is a gang's turf, but gangs will expand into them as necessary. Not good news for urban dwellers.
> 
> *Home Invasion Gangs* (didn't exist before SHTF)
> A home invasion gang is a group of individuals who survive by banding together and taking over homes and all the resources within them, until they are used up, and then the gang repeats the process. During SHTF, there will be a lot of desperate young adults walking the streets, looking for opportunities that will help them survive. They will easily be lured into this type of gang with promises of secure food, shelter, camaraderie, and as much sex as they want. The newbies will be tested out at the most dangerous tasks when taking over the next houses, but if they do well, their status and privileges will be higher than those recruited after them. As there are always plenty of recruits to fill missing spots, eventually a member won't have to do the dangerous work, he'll get the best food, and be able to rape the prettiest girls. It's a good life if you can get it.
> 
> These gangs will be well fed, relatively healthy, and well armed, (as they take all guns and ammunition from the houses they overcome). Given how unprepared the average person is for dealing with violence, they will be a formidable threat, as they continue to learn better and better ways to identify and take over even well prepared houses.
> 
> It goes without saying, that the best adapted to this type of gang will tend to be sociopaths. It is not to the gang's advantage to let the husbands and fathers go free while the gang rapes their wives and children, so they will be killed, perhaps as target practice for the newbies. It is also not to their advantage for the raped women to be set free afterwards, so the house may be burned with them still tied to their beds.


But what you'd learned about them are during normal conditions. SHTF will be different.

What about ex-military men or people who used to be in law enforcement (assuming there's no longer any law)? You think they're not thinking about a SHTF scenario? 
Surely there'll be gangs of these type - or other types - that'll be forming. I imagine, people of same cultures and races will also form their own groups. There'll probably be "treatise" among groups, if their survival is threatened. Again, it all boils down to numbers.
_And, not all will shed their humanity when SHTF comes._

The question is: Are they all willing to be victimized? Are they all going to succumb without any fight?

In a survival scenario, people will react unlike the way they do during normal conditions.
Don't forget.....it's a do or die situation. It'll be survival of the fittest. And, smartest.


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## Redneck

I too believe there will be gangs after a collapse of society. Yes, the bad guys will join together & I likewise believe the good guys will form loose bands (communities/tribes). That is the nature of humans. We aren't loners.

As a generality, those folks fighting to defend their families & property normally fight a lot tougher/meaner than those trying to take away. We folks defending will not treat those gangs with any rule of law, as they see now. I doubt they will have the stomach to fight folks that cut off the heads of invaders & place them around the perimeter on Slippy pikes.


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## Camel923

Gangs are predatory by nature. They will be a problem is varying degrees just about every where. JMHO.


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## hawgrider

Yes gangs are a real concern.... look how vicious this gang looks.


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## Maine-Marine

the blackmarket will most likely not be gangs.... black market has been around for years and runs on an honor system or it would not work. If people did not feel safe using it it would die

other gangs will slowly die out as their numbers are reduced over time by the constant death caused by Americans fighting back. Japan said that invading america would be tough because there was a gun behind every blade of grass... gangs would also have a hard time as each time they raided a place they would face death

back good ole americans in a corner and they get mad dog mean


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## Chipper

The 600K deer hunters, experienced killers, in WI will take care of the little punks. Most armed with high power deer rifles like 30 06 and 270's. Not the 9mm semi auto that is the favorite gang banger toy. It will be a major bang flop. Come get sum boyz.

Plus the 2 foot of snow and 20 below won't be very friendly for the gangs. Running around with their a$$es hanging out and pants down to their knees will make easy targets compared to a running deer.


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## charito

Chipper said:


> Plus the 2 foot of snow and 20 below won't be very friendly for the gangs. Running around with their a$$es hanging out and pants down to their knees will make easy targets compared to a running deer.


Maybe the fad would be different then.....hopefully, pants hang down by the ankles! :vs_laugh:


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## HochwaldJager

OK I'll play along. Here's my take. Those gangs you speak off will form quick and raid everything they think is valuable (meds, paper money, etc. etc.). They will have some losses while doing this and learn real fast that certain people just don't roll over and take it. The leaders of said gangs will learn to push the minions out for these raids as the thought of him catching some lead in his diet doesn't fit with his business plan. These gangs will not meet very much organized resistance at first and they will not be very mobile as they will need to secure and guard there stolen stock. So they will stick to the cities like blind mice and fight and kill of each other until those resources dry up. Could take a long time before they want to start to explore the outskirts. By this time fuel is scarce and there ability to move out will be restricted. So the internal gang code of honor or what ever in the crap that is will begin to break down when there's no clean water, food or meds. Please keep in mind once people start to go through withdraws they will turn on one another real fast! 

During this time us people in our highly shinned jungle boots that have never seen a hard day of work or rucked the highest peeks in the Stan will be pulling our resources, networks and have a plan in place in case this scum slides out of the a$$ end of that dirty diaper they live in. That plan includes but is not limited too a hot Mike call of "Broken Arrow". Then we will strike first, fast and deadly. Preferably during a 0437 wake-up call (screams and shots) that they will all run towards to try to be cool (like when they play Call of Duty)while they are being lured in to a ambush and flanked with a couple of good scopes on high ground. I'm no gods gift to shooting but I can pick a horse fly off an camels a$$ under a grand with my 260 and/or 338. True a plan is only good until first contact but I had a real good teacher at the "Home of The Infantry" that taught me to adapt and overcome. 

To be honest I'm more scarred of the onesies and twozies that sneak around your property, travel light and steal/kill for resources. In some cases I'd rather fight a huge known enemy than a solo punk with a good rifle in decent hands..... 

All I'm trying to say is you're going to have gangs but IMHO they won't be very mobile by the time they realize they need to get the heck out of dodge. Find a group of like minded people you can play with and plan, train and prepare. I hope a SHTF never happens because a lot of good people are going to suffer. That being said if evil comes anywhere close to the property line of my moral compass then I feel for them. 

P.S. Most of the so called bada$$ you assisted are real hardcore until they see there buddies head get turned in to a canoe. The End


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## charito

Remember too, there wouldn't be any semblance of political correctness at all. Even liberals will have guns. 
_"Shoot first, ask questions later,"_ would become the norm.


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## sideKahr

Depending on how long the emergency lasts, the worst gang I can think of would be the cannibals.


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## tango

How long will it take the urban gangs to leave the city?


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## HochwaldJager

tango said:


> How long will it take the urban gangs to leave the city?


Depends on the size of city and the resources that's been looted. The sooner they gather resources the longer they will stay in the dirty diaper. Keep in mind local LEOs will be fighting these guys at the beginning.

Just my pennies.


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## Illini Warrior

tango said:


> How long will it take the urban gangs to leave the city?


won't - they'll fight over the city resources until they die - if you've ever observed the animals outside their normal haunts they aren't that adaptable ... doesn't mean they won't mount a raid into a neighboring area - but go roaming the countryside picking apples? - noooo way ......


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## Redneck

tango said:


> How long will it take the urban gangs to leave the city?


I do fear these urban gangs when I go into the city because it is their home turf and they have little fear of the consequences of their actions. If they get caught, odds are they won't be shot & if they are, we will pay for their treatment. When caught, they join their buddies in an air conditioned vacation home where the get 3 meals a day, sports time & free medical.

All that changes if & when they decide to head out of the city. They then will be on our turf & there will be no rule of law to protect them. They might get shot just for showing up & when shot, if not dead, they will not receive treatment. I think their cohesive gang network will fall apart rather quickly & head back to their home ground... the city.


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## The Tourist

This might also have been before the expansion of home security alarms and CCW licenses for citizens.

Most of my neighborhood uses the ADT system--and several are armed. We also must have a little old lady somewhere who watches the neighborhood 24/7. Yes, we have neighborhood watch. But you cannot park an unknown car in this suburb without the cops coming within minutes.


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## charito

tango said:


> How long will it take the urban gangs to leave the city?


I think they'll target stores and ritzy neighborhoods first. Depending on what kind of scenario it is, they might venture outside the city earlier to get to estate houses before others does. It'll be a race for the good stuffs.


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## Yeti-2015

I’m far enough out in the rural area that by the time they find me they would be in hard spot, lack of food, water and probably other resources. Having to fight their way through all the small country towns along the way will take a toll on them. I do think that in a major cities and even some of the more populated areas there will be these kinds of people to take advantage of the situation and other people to gain power over the area of population to control what goes on. I will gladly avoid these places as much as I have to, kind of like I do today. TGus your insight to what is already is happening in this part of society will aid you in understanding and might help you with dealing with them in a major SHTF events happens.


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## Maine-Marine

tango said:


> How long will it take the urban gangs to leave the city?


it will be driven by food resources... most cities will run out within 2 week and I would guess murder and rading will buy gangs another 2 weeks.. so 1 month on the outside

BUT.. will they leave like locust as a group or be like ants sending out gatherers????????????????


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## rice paddy daddy

TGus said:


> I wonder if you'll really be prepared for them. By the time they get to you, they may have a lot more experience with firearms and tactics than anyone but a vet.


Our place is 6 miles out side a one stop light town.
In fact, it is past where the pavement ends. With lots and lots of mysterious woods around.:vs_shocked:

As I understand it, urban gang bangers are afraid of being in the woods.:vs_shocked:

As well they should be.:tango_face_smile:


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## tango

I agree with others.
They will stay where they are most comfortable, for as long as possible.
There will probably be a lot of inter gang warfare over goods and supplies.


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## charito

Maine-Marine said:


> it will be driven by food resources... most cities will run out within 2 week and I would guess murder and rading will buy gangs another 2 weeks.. so 1 month on the outside
> 
> BUT.. will they leave like locust as a group or be like ants sending out gatherers????????????????


If they'd already sucked the city dry, what would be the motivation to stay in the city, especially when diseases start to spread? Imagine how stinky it would be too in the city.

I think they'll go out in rural places and choose a farmhouse to turn into their headquarters. From there they'll send off their worker bees to pillage other places.


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## charito

tango said:


> I agree with others.
> They will stay where they are most comfortable, for as long as possible.
> There will probably be a lot of inter gang warfare over goods and supplies.


It won't be comfy anymore if diseases are everywhere, and if it stinks like mad. If the city has been raided, and what's left is considered "peanuts," what's the motivation for them to stay in the city?

If you're the leader of a gang, do you think it's worth it to fight over small change with other gangs (which could result in deaths of your members), or is it better to head out to look for greener pastures?

Surely some of them had been reading prepper sites.....and they know that there's treasures in yonder fields.


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## Smitty901

We have an advantage not being in a city. They will still be a problem. We have put security Number 1 in our preps without it you have nothing. Gangs will find a different fight than the cowards they now face.


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## charito

Smitty901 said:


> We have an advantage not being in a city. They will still be a problem. We have put security Number 1 in our preps without it you have nothing. Gangs will find a different fight than the cowards they now face.


Those living in rural places, and especially those who have been prepping long before this happened will be hard for them to take down. Besides, you know your own turf, you know strategic places. They don't.

What citizens in the city would be hoping for though, is for the gangs to leave the city as soon as possible.


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## White Shadow

With the way the Chicago gangs were fragmented many years ago by the government I would guess they would be too busy squabbling among themselves to effectively move out of the city. When you look at the gang map, no gang has free movement for more than a handful of city blocks without having to cross somebody else's territory.

Where I am at in proximity to Chicago I would expect a greater threat from masses of uncivilized on a good day Demonrat voters moving along the expressways out of the city like a swarm of entitled locusts looting and consuming everything in sight than from any organized gang activity.


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## Smitty901

charito said:


> Those living in rural places, and especially those who have been prepping long before this happened will be hard for them to take down. Besides, you know your own turf, you know strategic places. They don't.
> 
> What citizens in the city would be hoping for though, is for the gangs to leave the city as soon as possible.


 Lot of truth in that. Also consider how many of use have experience. Retired infantry, 2 sons 1SG wife Marine. Lot others just like us in the area. Homie game won't play here.


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## Denton

Don't forget that the gangs had many members enlist in the military so they could learn tactics.


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## Coastie dad

******* said:


> I too believe there will be gangs after a collapse of society. Yes, the bad guys will join together & I likewise believe the good guys will form loose bands (communities/tribes). That is the nature of humans. We aren't loners.
> 
> As a generality, those folks fighting to defend their families & property normally fight a lot tougher/meaner than those trying to take away. We folks defending will not treat those gangs with any rule of law, as they see now. I doubt they will have the stomach to fight folks that cut off the heads of invaders & place them around the perimeter on Slippy pikes.





HochwaldJager said:


> OK I'll play along. Here's my take. Those gangs you speak off will form quick and raid everything they think is valuable (meds, paper money, etc. etc.). They will have some losses while doing this and learn real fast that certain people just don't roll over and take it. The leaders of said gangs will learn to push the minions out for these raids as the thought of him catching some lead in his diet doesn't fit with his business plan. These gangs will not meet very much organized resistance at first and they will not be very mobile as they will need to secure and guard there stolen stock. So they will stick to the cities like blind mice and fight and kill of each other until those resources dry up. Could take a long time before they want to start to explore the outskirts. By this time fuel is scarce and there ability to move out will be restricted. So the internal gang code of honor or what ever in the crap that is will begin to break down when there's no clean water, food or meds. Please keep in mind once people start to go through withdraws they will turn on one another real fast!
> 
> During this time us people in our highly shinned jungle boots that have never seen a hard day of work or rucked the highest peeks in the Stan will be pulling our resources, networks and have a plan in place in case this scum slides out of the a$$ end of that dirty diaper they live in. That plan includes but is not limited too a hot Mike call of "Broken Arrow". Then we will strike first, fast and deadly. Preferably during a 0437 wake-up call (screams and shots) that they will all run towards to try to be cool (like when they play Call of Duty)while they are being lured in to a ambush and flanked with a couple of good scopes on high ground. I'm no gods gift to shooting but I can pick a horse fly off an camels a$$ under a grand with my 260 and/or 338. True a plan is only good until first contact but I had a real good teacher at the "Home of The Infantry" that taught me to adapt and overcome.
> 
> To be honest I'm more scarred of the onesies and twozies that sneak around your property, travel light and steal/kill for resources. In some cases I'd rather fight a huge known enemy than a solo punk with a good rifle in decent hands.....
> 
> All I'm trying to say is you're going to have gangs but IMHO they won't be very mobile by the time they realize they need to get the heck out of dodge. Find a group of like minded people you can play with and plan, train and prepare. I hope a SHTF never happens because a lot of good people are going to suffer. That being said if evil comes anywhere close to the property line of my moral compass then I feel for them.
> 
> P.S. Most of the so called bada$$ you assisted are real hardcore until they see there buddies head get turned in to a canoe. The End





charito said:


> It won't be comfy anymore if diseases are everywhere, and if it stinks like mad. If the city has been raided, and what's left is considered "peanuts," what's the motivation for them to stay in the city?
> 
> If you're the leader of a gang, do you think it's worth it to fight over small change with other gangs (which could result in deaths of your members), or is it better to head out to look for greener pastures?
> 
> Surely some of them had been reading prepper sites.....and they know that there's treasures in yonder fields.





Smitty901 said:


> Lot of truth in that. Also consider how many of use have experience. Retired infantry, 2 sons 1SG wife Marine. Lot others just like us in the area. Homie game won't play here.





Denton said:


> Don't forget that the gangs had many members enlist in the military so they could learn tactics.


This is very true, and does add a different twist we should be aware of. But being g aware is not the same as being afraid. Our missing OP seems to give a mythical prowess to the gang brutality without understanding that not all of us are urbanites from the big liberal leaning cities who were indoctrinated to the victim mentality.


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## charito

Denton said:


> Don't forget that the gangs had many members enlist in the military so they could learn tactics.


....and nothing says ex-military men/cops wouldn't be joining these gangs, either.


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## rice paddy daddy

charito said:


> If they'd already sucked the city dry, what would be the motivation to stay in the city, especially when diseases start to spread? Imagine how stinky it would be too in the city.
> 
> I think they'll go out in rural places and choose a farmhouse to turn into their headquarters. From there they'll send off their worker bees to pillage other places.


How are they going to get out here if they have already used up their gasoline roaming the suburbs for easy pickings?
I don't need gas for mobility, we have horses.


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## charito

rice paddy daddy said:


> How are they going to get out here if they have already used up their gasoline roaming the suburbs for easy pickings?
> I don't need gas for mobility, we have horses.


We can't assume that they've got no means to get out to the country. They'd be looking for gas, too.


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## Gator Monroe

charito said:


> ....and nothing says ex-military men/cops wouldn't be joining these gangs, either.


You mean the way they have traditionally Joined or Gravitated towards Militia Activities ?


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## charito

Gator Monroe said:


> You mean the way they have traditionally Joined or Gravitated towards Militia Activities ?


I mean, joining the urban gangs. There are corrupt cops/military men now.....they'd fit right in with gangs and organized crime families.


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## Coastie dad

Some of you, and I'm guessing the ones limited on military experience, seem to not be taking into account that military leadership also teaches to avoid certain situations when possible. 
Probing an area's defenses could make these mil/gangs avoid an area if it is judged to be too hostile for the reward.
There may be some mad Max events, especially in the early stages, but self preservation on both sides will begin to govern tactics. 
The Vikings were notorious raiders, but they didn't win out in the end. Civilization did.


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## Smitty901

Starting back in about the 70's people in cities locked them self in and hid. They became scared and did not stand up to crime. It has each year gotten worst. Gangs count on that fear. The fear is fed by TV and movies. When stood up to the crumble. 
I don't want anyone to take this a blindly gunning people down. But a threat will be taken care of long before it has the chance to do us harm. That is no different now as it will be post SHTF.
We will not be a victim . Those that run and hide don't know or understand people like us. We could not do it even if we wanted to. It goes against everything we know.
We started shooting and hunting at 9 years old. Our sons our daughters or wives . 
The difference is we will do something not demand someone else does. Many of us have faced far more scary and dangerous people than baggy pants homie.


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## tango

A lot of them will die defending against rival gangs.
Things will get ugly in the cities long before anyone tries to get to the country.
The ones who survive to escape the cities will be some tough folks.


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## Ragnarök

Cannibals get blood eagled. That's my first decree as a nobody.


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## TGus

Joe said:


> @TGus What you posted sounds plausible. there will be those who will be prepared for these things and those who won't be. It will be survival of the fittest. There will be those of us who live in the rural areas that can form "gangs" as well. as @Denton mentioned.


I'm happy about your confidence about being prepared for Home intruders, but please don't become overconfident. Any threat in which you are unsure of the capabilities of your opponent should be treated with the utmost seriousness.

With regard to the 3rd type, I believe they will be as ubiquitous wherever you are. They aren't traditional gangs; they are just an association of individuals with a common interest. Many of the replies here seem to assume that they will exist in the cities only. Wrong.


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## TGus

A Watchman said:


> Hey Gus .... help me out so I can make sure I am playing fair here ..... after reading a couple of your new threads, are you asking the questions personally, or are you copying and pasting?


No offense. These are my words and thoughts only. I don't need to look at other sources to ask questions, or share what I think about.


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## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> As fair warning, your stating you were a therapist may have immediately tainted your credibility with me.
> Your assuredness that we may well fall prey to the urban animals your lenient ways have created did nothing to bolster that credibility.
> But, since you are new, I'll give you a Mulligan.
> Once.


Does it help your tainted credibility if I reveal to you that I currently work for the Dept. of Revenue?


----------



## TGus

Ragnarök said:


> It is much more complex than just 3 types of gangs.... Anyways all those punk ass gangsters you see on the news will get quickly cleaned up by military and ex military militias that form communities if the grid goes down. They will secure their areas and look for other ex military groups to strengthen a territory either through peaceful alliance or by war.
> 
> The larger threat could come from cartels since their current cash flow provides them with higher end weaponry, technology, tactics, experience fighting police and military and they have much more intelligent leadership than street gangs.


Gangsters *won't* get cleaned up so easily by military and militias from outside their turf. They know how to hide among the people, and no one will dare snitch on them. You might be right about the rest though.


----------



## Coastie dad

Oh, we are aware of the fungus among us. That's where the cleaning begins. 
And I find it odd you are as confident in your assessment as we are in ours, that you are apparently comfortable accepting you would be helpless against them. There may be a factor that you've omitted from your assessment also. We have gang/thug problems also, but why do you think those problems are more pronounced in the big urban areas than small rural areas? You definitely have more law enforcement available to you at most any moment than we have. I suggest the citizens of these cities have allowed the proliferation of these gangs, and accept them as a part of city life.
We do not accept that.
And where you worked with Juvie offenders at one stage of your life, I've been working with them for over 20 years now, currently in a behavioral health hospital in direct support of a juvenile detention facility outside of Little Rock. So I would submit I have current experience with these thugs, and should you want to compare your apples to my oranges, I will also resubmit my statement that your cultural of leniency nurtured these weeds in the garden.


----------



## Coastie dad

And no, your current employment is irrelevant to this discussion, unless you would like me to add my feelings concerning an overreaching federal government, but we can discuss that elsewhere. 
Glad you showed back up, though. I was thinking you slithered away in the night. You may be good for conversation in the long run.


----------



## TGus

charito said:


> But what you'd learned about them are during normal conditions. SHTF will be different.
> 
> *What I described above is the inhumanity these gangs will display during SHTF, -not what they do now.*
> 
> What about ex-military men or people who used to be in law enforcement (assuming there's no longer any law)? You think they're not thinking about a SHTF scenario?
> Surely there'll be gangs of these type - or other types - that'll be forming. I imagine, people of same cultures and races will also form their own groups. There'll probably be "treatise" among groups, if their survival is threatened. Again, it all boils down to numbers.
> _And, not all will shed their humanity when SHTF comes._
> 
> *I'm sure there'll be some cases of this, but it's not a subject I'm familiar with. I don't know any ex-military or ex-LEO.*
> 
> The question is: Are they all willing to be victimized? Are they all going to succumb without any fight?
> 
> *Of course many people will choose to fight, but the common person lacks the skills to win a fight.*
> 
> In a survival scenario, people will react unlike the way they do during normal conditions.
> Don't forget.....it's a do or die situation. It'll be survival of the fittest. And, smartest.


*Desperation does not improve you tactics or fighting skills.*


----------



## TGus

******* said:


> I too believe there will be gangs after a collapse of society. Yes, the bad guys will join together & I likewise believe the good guys will form loose bands (communities/tribes). That is the nature of humans. We aren't loners.
> 
> As a generality, those folks fighting to defend their families & property normally fight a lot tougher/meaner than those trying to take away. We folks defending will not treat those gangs with any rule of law, as they see now. I doubt they will have the stomach to fight folks that cut off the heads of invaders & place them around the perimeter on Slippy pikes.


I'm thinking that the strategic advantage is with the better fed, better armed, more experienced, more numerous, and mobile invaders. At least you have your motivation of win or be killed to help motivate you.

P.S. I've noticed that you really like those Slippy pikes.


----------



## Coastie dad

So, @TGus, what is your suggestion for those of us who will surely become victims of these roving Marauders? Apparently nothing we have said is valid. Have any Answers? Theories? I mean, other than we are all going to be raped and murdered by these gangs that have been allowed to breed in the cities?


----------



## Smitty901

TGus said:


> Gangsters *won't* get cleaned up so easily by military and militias from outside their turf. They know how to hide among the people, and no one will dare snitch on them. You might be right about the rest though.


 If they come here they will. Count on it. No where to hide you don't belong here you stand out . Heck my Dogs and the others will know you are here 1/2 mile away.
Big question have you ever killed anyone. Have you been in a fight not only for your life but others with you and many you did not even know. You might have a different view point. Hoime aint walking away from this one. No short jail time it will be the end.


----------



## TGus

Maine-Marine said:


> the blackmarket will most likely not be gangs.... black market has been around for years and runs on an honor system or it would not work. If people did not feel safe using it it would die
> 
> other gangs will slowly die out as their numbers are reduced over time by the constant death caused by Americans fighting back. Japan said that invading america would be tough because there was a gun behind every blade of grass... gangs would also have a hard time as each time they raided a place they would face death
> 
> back good ole americans in a corner and they get mad dog mean


Some do; many are wimps.

If the black market is not run by criminals, where do they get all their "stuff"?


----------



## White Shadow

Once you are in a WROL situation and it becomes apparent that there is neither help coming nor any legal consequences for your actions the easy pickings will quickly dry up. There are a lot of people who are skilled in violence to a level that would have the gang bangers running away as fast as their sagging pants would let them who are only held back by the rules of civilization. Once those rules are gone the real monsters will come out to play.


----------



## Redneck

TGus said:


> P.S. I've noticed that you really like those Slippy pikes.


That is because I think @Slippy is a genius and the type of person that stands a great chance of surviving a crisis. I like the Slippy pikes because besides my stint in the Air Force, I've been in advertising all my life. During a crisis, I want anyone who even contemplates messing with me or mine to absolutely, completely, 100% know we are not to be F'd with. And I think the advantage is with the folks that know the terrain and who are fighting for their life. Folks that have family & nowhere to retreat fight to the last drop of blood flows. Punks roaming around don't have that motivation. Also, don't assume they will be better armed or better trained unless these punks have their own range & practice home defense drills constantly.


----------



## White Shadow

TGus said:


> I'm thinking that the strategic advantage is with the better fed, better armed, more experienced, more numerous, and mobile invaders. At least you have your motivation of win or be killed to help motivate you.
> 
> P.S. I've noticed that you really like those Slippy pikes.


I would wager the better fed, better armed and more experienced trophies would go to the rural ex military guys. Most bangers won't know where to look for food once the local Burger King and the corner liquor store are looted. They will also fall to disease very rapidly as they won't have any common sense about water/food quality or sanitation. They are likely to spend the first week after a collapse scenario doing stupid things like stealing fancy sneakers, stealing useless televisions, and burning resources to the ground. If they survive the skirmishes at all and manage to cross all of the other turfs to break out of the city they are going to be tired, weak, sick and desperate on top of uneducated.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

actually the inner city gangs roaming the country side doesn't seem plausible.... but roaming biker gangs that are already highly organized for just such an activity, I could envision that!


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> And no, your current employment is irrelevant to this discussion, unless you would like me to add my feelings concerning an overreaching federal government, but we can discuss that elsewhere.
> Glad you showed back up, though. I was thinking you slithered away in the night. You may be good for conversation in the long run.


I have a job and 3 children. That should explain my absence.


----------



## TGus

hawgrider said:


> Yes gangs are a real concern.... look how vicious this gang looks.


Just wait till they grow up!


----------



## Coastie dad

TGus said:


> I have a job and 3 children. That should explain my absence.


Your credibility is still suspect.

A job and three kids...you have earned a smidgen of my respect. Cherish it. You are slowly moving up in the world. Slowly...a government job offsets it a little, but we've all been known to sell our souls to the devil occasionally to take care of family.


----------



## TGus

Chipper said:


> The 600K deer hunters, experienced killers, in WI will take care of the little punks. Most armed with high power deer rifles like 30 06 and 270's. Not the 9mm semi auto that is the favorite gang banger toy. It will be a major bang flop. Come get sum boyz.
> 
> Plus the 2 foot of snow and 20 below won't be very friendly for the gangs. Running around with their a$$es hanging out and pants down to their knees will make easy targets compared to a running deer.


We're not talking about the 2nd type of gang I described. These are the 3rd group, who may have been your neighbors a short while ago.

If they're attacking your house, don't forget that by then they probably will have gained a lot of experience in how to overcome house defenses. As a last resort, they may decide to just burn you out, and shoot you as you escape.


----------



## TGus

HochwaldJager said:


> OK I'll play along. Here's my take. Those gangs you speak off will form quick and raid everything they think is valuable (meds, paper money, etc. etc.). They will have some losses while doing this and learn real fast that certain people just don't roll over and take it. The leaders of said gangs will learn to push the minions out for these raids as the thought of him catching some lead in his diet doesn't fit with his business plan. These gangs will not meet very much organized resistance at first and they will not be very mobile as they will need to secure and guard there stolen stock. So they will stick to the cities like blind mice and fight and kill of each other until those resources dry up. Could take a long time before they want to start to explore the outskirts. By this time fuel is scarce and there ability to move out will be restricted. So the internal gang code of honor or what ever in the crap that is will begin to break down when there's no clean water, food or meds. Please keep in mind once people start to go through withdraws they will turn on one another real fast!
> 
> During this time us people in our highly shinned jungle boots that have never seen a hard day of work or rucked the highest peeks in the Stan will be pulling our resources, networks and have a plan in place in case this scum slides out of the a$$ end of that dirty diaper they live in. That plan includes but is not limited too a hot Mike call of "Broken Arrow". Then we will strike first, fast and deadly. Preferably during a 0437 wake-up call (screams and shots) that they will all run towards to try to be cool (like when they play Call of Duty)while they are being lured in to a ambush and flanked with a couple of good scopes on high ground. I'm no gods gift to shooting but I can pick a horse fly off an camels a$$ under a grand with my 260 and/or 338. True a plan is only good until first contact but I had a real good teacher at the "Home of The Infantry" that taught me to adapt and overcome.
> 
> To be honest I'm more scarred of the onesies and twozies that sneak around your property, travel light and steal/kill for resources. In some cases I'd rather fight a huge known enemy than a solo punk with a good rifle in decent hands.....
> 
> All I'm trying to say is you're going to have gangs but IMHO they won't be very mobile by the time they realize they need to get the heck out of dodge. Find a group of like minded people you can play with and plan, train and prepare. I hope a SHTF never happens because a lot of good people are going to suffer. That being said if evil comes anywhere close to the property line of my moral compass then I feel for them.
> 
> P.S. Most of the so called bada$$ you assisted are real hardcore until they see there buddies head get turned in to a canoe. The End


What you say is true of the 2nd type of gang I described, -but what about the 3rd type?


----------



## TGus

******* said:


> I do fear these urban gangs when I go into the city because it is their home turf and they have little fear of the consequences of their actions. If they get caught, odds are they won't be shot & if they are, we will pay for their treatment. When caught, they join their buddies in an air conditioned vacation home where the get 3 meals a day, sports time & free medical.
> 
> All that changes if & when they decide to head out of the city. They then will be on our turf & there will be no rule of law to protect them. They might get shot just for showing up & when shot, if not dead, they will not receive treatment. I think their cohesive gang network will fall apart rather quickly & head back to their home ground... the city.


You've described the second type; what about the 3rd local type?


----------



## TGus

Illini Warrior said:


> won't - they'll fight over the city resources until they die - if you've ever observed the animals outside their normal haunts they aren't that adaptable ... doesn't mean they won't mount a raid into a neighboring area - but go roaming the countryside picking apples? - noooo way ......


You've described the 2nd type of gang; what about the 3rd local type?


----------



## TGus

The Tourist said:


> This might also have been before the expansion of home security alarms and CCW licenses for citizens.
> 
> Most of my neighborhood uses the ADT system--and several are armed. We also must have a little old lady somewhere who watches the neighborhood 24/7. Yes, we have neighborhood watch. But you cannot park an unknown car in this suburb without the cops coming within minutes.


What if you have no electricity?


----------



## TGus

Yeti-2015 said:


> I'm far enough out in the rural area that by the time they find me they would be in hard spot, lack of food, water and probably other resources. Having to fight their way through all the small country towns along the way will take a toll on them. I do think that in a major cities and even some of the more populated areas there will be these kinds of people to take advantage of the situation and other people to gain power over the area of population to control what goes on. I will gladly avoid these places as much as I have to, kind of like I do today. TGus your insight to what is already is happening in this part of society will aid you in understanding and might help you with dealing with them in a major SHTF events happens.


How can they lack anything if they're taking over and raiding houses all along the way?


----------



## TGus

tango said:


> I agree with others.
> They will stay where they are most comfortable, for as long as possible.
> There will probably be a lot of inter gang warfare over goods and supplies.


You've described the 2nd type of gang; what about the 3rd local type?


----------



## TGus

Smitty901 said:


> We have an advantage not being in a city. They will still be a problem. We have put security Number 1 in our preps without it you have nothing. Gangs will find a different fight than the cowards they now face.


The 3rd type of gang will be better prepared, with a LOT more experience than the 2nd type of gang.


----------



## White Shadow

That third group you describe is going to start out looking for juicy targets with minimal resistance while avoiding any place that can put up a decent fight. Assuming they continue to be successful raid after raid after raid after raid (a big assumption), by the time they run out of defenseless slobs and loop around to eyeballing the tougher targets those people are likely to have linked up with other like minded people making them an even tougher nut to crack. 

I think it more likely that your Mad Max style raiders will have a lot of initial success, but will burn out along the way as things like tactical mistakes, accidents, and disease take their toll. Internal power struggles will keep any raiding groups from growing too big.


----------



## TGus

White Shadow said:


> With the way the Chicago gangs were fragmented many years ago by the government I would guess they would be too busy squabbling among themselves to effectively move out of the city. When you look at the gang map, no gang has free movement for more than a handful of city blocks without having to cross somebody else's territory.
> 
> Where I am at in proximity to Chicago I would expect a greater threat from masses of uncivilized on a good day Demonrat voters moving along the expressways out of the city like a swarm of entitled locusts looting and consuming everything in sight than from any organized gang activity.


Wow, you people seem to think the only gangs after SHTF will be the ones currently in the city! PLEASE re-read about the 3rd type that hasn't been created yet, and can start anywhere.


----------



## TGus

rice paddy daddy said:


> How are they going to get out here if they have already used up their gasoline roaming the suburbs for easy pickings?
> I don't need gas for mobility, we have horses.


The 3rd type doesn't need transportation, except maybe a cart. They move from house to house within walking distance.


----------



## TGus

Smitty901 said:


> Starting back in about the 70's people in cities locked them self in and hid. They became scared and did not stand up to crime. It has each year gotten worst. Gangs count on that fear. The fear is fed by TV and movies. When stood up to the crumble.
> I don't want anyone to take this a blindly gunning people down. But a threat will be taken care of long before it has the chance to do us harm. That is no different now as it will be post SHTF.
> We will not be a victim . Those that run and hide don't know or understand people like us. We could not do it even if we wanted to. It goes against everything we know.
> We started shooting and hunting at 9 years old. Our sons our daughters or wives .
> The difference is we will do something not demand someone else does. Many of us have faced far more scary and dangerous people than baggy pants homie.


What about the 3rd type that used to be your neighbors? Don't think you have everything under control. They will use ambush when you least expect it, and any element of surprise that works.


----------



## rice paddy daddy

TGus said:


> The 3rd type doesn't need transportation, except maybe a cart. They move from house to house within walking distance.


Since your listed location is "Boston suburb" I'm guessing you have very little comprehension of the rural American South, and the red necks that populate it.
:vs_lol:

Bless your heart! :tango_face_smile:

Y'all have a nice day now, hear?:vs_peace:


----------



## White Shadow

If your plan for SHTF involves displaying all of your goods on your front lawn, stripping naked, and assuming the position to wait for your new barbarian masters then I guess good for you. You have finished all of your planning and can just sit back and wait for the good times to begin.

I haven't been here very long, but I'm pretty confident that you won't find too many members that are in the "let's just surrender now because it's hopeless" crowd other than Jammer Six.


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> Oh, we are aware of the fungus among us. That's where the cleaning begins.
> And I find it odd you are as confident in your assessment as we are in ours, that you are apparently comfortable accepting you would be helpless against them. There may be a factor that you've omitted from your assessment also. We have gang/thug problems also, but why do you think those problems are more pronounced in the big urban areas than small rural areas? You definitely have more law enforcement available to you at most any moment than we have. I suggest the citizens of these cities have allowed the proliferation of these gangs, and accept them as a part of city life.
> We do not accept that.
> And where you worked with Juvie offenders at one stage of your life, I've been working with them for over 20 years now, currently in a behavioral health hospital in direct support of a juvenile detention facility outside of Little Rock. So I would submit I have current experience with these thugs, and should you want to compare your apples to my oranges, I will also resubmit my statement that your cultural of leniency nurtured these weeds in the garden.


I feel no helplessness regarding these gangs. I can gain from or ignore the 1st type. The 2nd type will probably never be able to extend their power into the suburbs. And although individual homes don't stand much of a chance against the 3rd type, I have developed ways my community can deal with them effectively, and perhaps even nonviolently, (which means that few or none of our defenders die opposing them). The method is based on gang psychology.


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> So, @TGus, what is your suggestion for those of us who will surely become victims of these roving Marauders? Apparently nothing we have said is valid. Have any Answers? Theories? I mean, other than we are all going to be raped and murdered by these gangs that have been allowed to breed in the cities?


I have what I believe to be a solution, but it requires me to describe several elements that work together. That requires a bit of writing. I promise to create a separate thread soon about how I think it can be done. I wanted to put it out there anyway to get the forum's reaction to it.


----------



## Ragnarök

tango said:


> How long will it take the urban gangs to leave the city?


Do you think hydroponic grow facilities for marijuana will turn into vegetable gardening very fast? I do.

Gangs are uneducated and they are a product of their environment. Easy to identify and easy to do away with.

The will stay in the city and fight till the drugs run out and wear off. Reality sets in and they become human again. Then they will leave if they are alive.


----------



## TGus

******* said:


> That is because I think @Slippy is a genius and the type of person that stands a great chance of surviving a crisis. I like the Slippy pikes because besides my stint in the Air Force, I've been in advertising all my life. During a crisis, I want anyone who even contemplates messing with me or mine to absolutely, completely, 100% know we are not to be F'd with. And I think the advantage is with the folks that know the terrain and who are fighting for their life. Folks that have family & nowhere to retreat fight to the last drop of blood flows. Punks roaming around don't have that motivation. Also, don't assume they will be better armed or better trained unless these punks have their own range & practice home defense drills constantly.


After taking over 50 houses worth of stuff, how many guns and ammunition do you think they have? HINT: A lot. Maybe they do a lot more more than "practice" killing people and attacking houses too, -and it's wasn't at the range.


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> Your credibility is still suspect.
> 
> A job and three kids...you have earned a smidgen of my respect. Cherish it. You are slowly moving up in the world. Slowly...a government job offsets it a little, but we've all been known to sell our souls to the devil occasionally to take care of family.


I do environmental protection at that agency.


----------



## Coastie dad

It better be good, because you haven't caught on to this group's psychology yet. And if you think there is a non violent answer to violent predators, you don't have near the experience you claim. Animals understand power. If you think you can assimilate them into your group or convince them of a peaceful truce without violating your own morals then you are speaking to the wrong group. Paying a tribute to a Gang? Yeah...they want to do that in some leftist areas. Pay the bad guys to not do bad things. Won't work. Tribute costs increase, because you've given them power. 
Better make this long explanation thread good. And most people around here won't read a long, drawn out manifesto. Might do you well to cut right to it. Because so far all your answers have been nothing more than dodges trying to get us to talk about your mythical third group. So how about stopping with the therapist crap of asking us how we feel about something, and speak your Mind? You're wanting to anyway, and I suspect you are trying to build false credibility by sounding as if you have answers but want us to think first. 
We aren't your students or clients. Defecate or vacate the porcelain.


----------



## Coastie dad

Environmental protection? 
Department of Revenue?
Ex Therapist? 
Yankee urbanite telling us how much we don't know about our rural areas and how unprepared we are?

Well.....bless your little heart.


----------



## SOCOM42

TGus, get your pal Pocahontas to protect you. she is close enough to you to smell her armpits.


----------



## TGus

White Shadow said:


> That third group you describe is going to start out looking for juicy targets with minimal resistance while avoiding any place that can put up a decent fight. Assuming they continue to be successful raid after raid after raid after raid (a big assumption), by the time they run out of defenseless slobs and loop around to eyeballing the tougher targets those people are likely to have linked up with other like minded people making them an even tougher nut to crack.
> 
> I think it more likely that your Mad Max style raiders will have a lot of initial success, but will burn out along the way as things like tactical mistakes, accidents, and disease take their toll. Internal power struggles will keep any raiding groups from growing too big.


They can always find new desperate recruits around the next corner who would jump at the chance to join them. The new recruits would receive some training, but most of what they learn will come from being cannon fodder in the next house attacks. They will either do well or be replaced. Also, have you looked around you? There is no end to easy targets in this society, and by the time the easy targets disappear, the gang will be much more experienced and be able to take on tougher ones. This can go on for years. But I agree with you; these gangs cannot go on forever.


----------



## TGus

rice paddy daddy said:


> Since your listed location is "Boston suburb" I'm guessing you have very little comprehension of the rural American South, and the red necks that populate it.
> :vs_lol:
> 
> Bless your heart! :tango_face_smile:
> 
> Y'all have a nice day now, hear?:vs_peace:


You're right about that, and I know there are regions of this country that seem to naturally grow tough bastards.


----------



## azrancher

TGus said:


> After taking over 50 houses worth of stuff, how many guns and ammunition do you think they have? HINT: A lot. Maybe they do a lot more more than "practice" killing people and attacking houses too, -and it's wasn't at the range.


How many guns can you carry, how many do you need, do you really think they will be hauling all that junk with them, if so they will be easy targets.

*Rancher*


----------



## TGus

White Shadow said:


> If your plan for SHTF involves displaying all of your goods on your front lawn, stripping naked, and assuming the position to wait for your new barbarian masters then I guess good for you. You have finished all of your planning and can just sit back and wait for the good times to begin.
> 
> I haven't been here very long, but I'm pretty confident that you won't find too many members that are in the "let's just surrender now because it's hopeless" crowd other than Jammer Six.


Good for you! Never surrender. I'm not saying that anyone should give up against the types I've outlined; I'm just responding to what I believe are a few weak arguments in the replies. And it seems to me that some people are way too overconfident.


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> It better be good, because you haven't caught on to this group's psychology yet. And if you think there is a non violent answer to violent predators, you don't have near the experience you claim. Animals understand power. If you think you can assimilate them into your group or convince them of a peaceful truce without violating your own morals then you are speaking to the wrong group. Paying a tribute to a Gang? Yeah...they want to do that in some leftist areas. Pay the bad guys to not do bad things. Won't work. Tribute costs increase, because you've given them power.
> Better make this long explanation thread good. And most people around here won't read a long, drawn out manifesto. Might do you well to cut right to it. Because so far all your answers have been nothing more than dodges trying to get us to talk about your mythical third group. So how about stopping with the therapist crap of asking us how we feel about something, and speak your Mind? You're wanting to anyway, and I suspect you are trying to build false credibility by sounding as if you have answers but want us to think first.
> We aren't your students or clients. Defecate or vacate the porcelain.


Sun Tsu: "The best general is not the one that wins every battle; he is the one that intimidates the enemy so much that the enemy chooses to leave without fighting."


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Not overconfident, but competent! No brag, just fact.


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> It better be good, because you haven't caught on to this group's psychology yet. And if you think there is a non violent answer to violent predators, you don't have near the experience you claim. Animals understand power. If you think you can assimilate them into your group or convince them of a peaceful truce without violating your own morals then you are speaking to the wrong group. Paying a tribute to a Gang? Yeah...they want to do that in some leftist areas. Pay the bad guys to not do bad things. Won't work. Tribute costs increase, because you've given them power.
> Better make this long explanation thread good. And most people around here won't read a long, drawn out manifesto. Might do you well to cut right to it. Because so far all your answers have been nothing more than dodges trying to get us to talk about your mythical third group. So how about stopping with the therapist crap of asking us how we feel about something, and speak your Mind? You're wanting to anyway, and I suspect you are trying to build false credibility by sounding as if you have answers but want us to think first.
> We aren't your students or clients. Defecate or vacate the porcelain.


I don't mean to be a tease, but since I started this thread to correct some serious misconceptions about gangs I find on a lot of forums, I thought I'd at least take responsibility to answer the replies before I go on.

"So how about stopping with the therapist crap of asking us how we feel about something, and speak your Mind? You're wanting to anyway, and I suspect you are trying to build false credibility by sounding as if you have answers but want us to think first."

I'm not intentionally doing any of what I think you're describing. I *do *want to know how you feel, and I *will *speak my mind, not parrot the good ideas someone else came up with first. I used to be a college teacher; I want you to think. Are you OK with this, -or am I missing part of your request? Respectfully Yours


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> Environmental protection?
> Department of Revenue?
> Ex Therapist?
> Yankee urbanite telling us how much we don't know about our rural areas and how unprepared we are?
> 
> Well.....bless your little heart.


Somehow, I suspect you're being a _little _insincere, LOL.

If I say something to someone who doesn't know me, I want them to know where it's coming from.


----------



## TGus

azrancher said:


> How many guns can you carry, how many do you need, do you really think they will be hauling all that junk with them, if so they will be easy targets.
> 
> *Rancher*


Of course not. They'll take the best guns with the most ammo for their group, and maybe trade the rest on the black market.


----------



## Coastie dad

My experience with college professors and therapists is that they have over inflated egos and want to be the center of attention. So far...you fit the bill. You ever gonna get around to expounding on these theories, or are you still reveling in our awe at your delaying our gratification? Please, by all means, get on with it. I have to be up in a few hours to go deal with the practical aspect of juvenile gang members and psychopaths, as well as a bevy of self righteous therapist bleeding hearts that were still in elementary school when I began this career.


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> My experience with college professors and therapists is that they have over inflated egos and want to be the center of attention. So far...you fit the bill. You ever gonna get around to expounding on these theories, or are you still reveling in our awe at your delaying our gratification? Please, by all means, get on with it. I have to be up in a few hours to go deal with the practical aspect of juvenile gang members and psychopaths, as well as a bevy of self righteous therapist bleeding hearts that were still in elementary school when I began this career.


"My experience with college professors and therapists is that they have over inflated egos and want to be the center of attention."

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences with college and psychotherapy.

Excuse my confidence, but I know that there is a lot I don't know, -and that's why I'm here. Believe me; my ego is big enough without needing this forum's support. That's not important to me. I've spent my whole life avidly learning many things and working at many things, and whatever I learn from my fellow preppers here I think will be important come SHTF. I think that's what we all feel.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

Now you're calling us psychos!? This is fun! Your whole life, are you 25 yet, you talk like a teenager. The psycho babble, like anything the libs want, "Isn't this how we all feel". No, it is not, happy to rain on your parade!


----------



## TGus

1skrewsloose said:


> Now you're calling us psychos!? This is fun! Your whole life, are you 25 yet, you talk like a teenager. The psycho babble, like anything the libs want, "Isn't this how we all feel". No, it is not, happy to rain on your parade!


It's just a joke. Please try to be more helpful.


----------



## 1skrewsloose

If you're asking for assistance, try not to talk down to folks, the replies are apt to be abrupt. Ever hear that you get more bees with honey than vinegar?


----------



## HochwaldJager

Gus,

You asked me to give you my thought on the third style of gang...

My thoughts are that will never happen besides in the cities. Mobility is key and we are talking about a TEOTWAWKI event. Fuel will be gone before people start starving. Dirty water will take care much of them before most of us get a chance to dial in the turrets. It will be extremely hard for those individual to move much less shoot, move and communicate. I'm not saying it's not possible but all our fuel points will be seized by DoD or local LEOs. They will be dependent on the fuel in there cars and what they have salvaged. Most people in the cities don't stock much fuel and there's few lawn machines running around! 

This scenario will be more likely for small groups not gangs. Then you better work on your perimeter security.


----------



## Denton

1skrewsloose said:


> Now you're calling us psychos!? This is fun! Your whole life, are you 25 yet, you talk like a teenager. The psycho babble, like anything the libs want, "Isn't this how we all feel". No, it is not, happy to rain on your parade!


Is there any evidence we aren't psychos?


----------



## Denton

TGus said:


> I don't mean to be a tease, but since I started this thread to correct some serious misconceptions about gangs I find on a lot of forums, I thought I'd at least take responsibility to answer the replies before I go on.
> 
> "So how about stopping with the therapist crap of asking us how we feel about something, and speak your Mind? You're wanting to anyway, and I suspect you are trying to build false credibility by sounding as if you have answers but want us to think first."
> 
> I'm not intentionally doing any of what I think you're describing. I *do *want to know how you feel, and I *will *speak my mind, not parrot the good ideas someone else came up with first. I used to be a college teacher; I want you to think. Are you OK with this, -or am I missing part of your request? Respectfully Yours


You were a college teacher (professor)? What did you teach? A lot of us, here, sat through a lot of college courses. Which ones might we have in common?

Some of us worked the streets as cops, and some of us worked the prisons. Some of us have military experience that includes not technical but tactical training. Some of us have lived in lousy parts of cities. Some of us have dealt with gang members. I'm one of those who can check off all of those points.

Please, tell me why you think you understand this better than I do. Personally, I find your opening post superficial and has all the earmarks of an expert wannabe.

You've wandered into a cyber community that is chock full of people who have real world experience, and we find your responses wholly inadequate. Please, redeem yourself.


----------



## HochwaldJager

Yeah, What Denton Said......... 

I'm glad no one jumped on the "they will steal bikes and leave the city in mass hordes band wagon".... Not sure my heart could of took it. I just wonder what kind of CIB (Combat Infantry Badge) Would it be Two Stars with a Bike in the Middle :vs_blush:


----------



## Prepared One

Are the cats still playing with the gangsta mouse? :devil:


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## charito

TGus said:


> *Desperation does not improve you tactics or fighting skills.*


Depends. As long as you keep your wits about you.
For some, desperation can give that boost to fight to the death - taking out as many as you can.


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> Gangsters *won't* get cleaned up so easily by military and militias from outside their turf. They know how to hide among the people, and no one will dare snitch on them. You might be right about the rest though.


They could get snuff by those very people. 
And that's erroneously assuming that all people are of the same mind. How do you know no one will snitch?
Not all "vigilantes" necessarily work out in groups, either. You could have a quiet Charles Bronson deathwish persona among the people.

Don't compare normal times with that apocalyptic-type of scenario. 
In a Mad-Max scenario - probably a good number of people are half-mad. Would you be safe among starving, mad people? Especially, if you're among those who victimized them in the first place?

Furthermore, if they're going to hide among the people - they'll have to hide among the same race. A black will stand out in a latino community and vice versa.

To assume - especially, naively - is the #1 mistake one can make. What movie line was that again?
_ "Assumption is the mother of all f***-ups?"_


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> We're not talking about the 2nd type of gang I described. These are the 3rd group, who may have been your neighbors a short while ago.
> 
> If they're attacking your house, don't forget that by then they probably will have gained a lot of experience in how to overcome house defenses. As a last resort, they may decide to just burn you out, and shoot you as you escape.


As long as you don't flaunt your stockpile, and they think you're starving like the rest of them, or have not been an inconsiderate neighbor and therefore they'd got axes to grind against you, what's in it for them to get you? Especially if they're your neighbors? More likely, they'll ask you to join them!


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> Wow, you people seem to think the only gangs after SHTF will be the ones currently in the city! PLEASE re-read about the 3rd type that hasn't been created yet, and can start anywhere.


Why would this 3rd type gang go in the city?
If they haven't been created yet, the city would've been looted already by the time they're created, and therefore they know that the city is not worth the trouble anymore!


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> They can always find new desperate recruits around the next corner who would jump at the chance to join them. This can go on for years. But I agree with you; these gangs cannot go on forever.


Years? They could've been wiped out by a plague by then, if they're dumb enough to be still in the city. :laugh:


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> The 3rd type doesn't need transportation, except maybe a cart. They move from house to house within walking distance.


That's reminiscent of the French Revolution, the mob moving on foot. They'd be like the army ants, devouring everything in its path.


----------



## charito

azrancher said:


> How many guns can you carry, how many do you need, do you really think they will be hauling all that junk with them, if so they will be easy targets.
> 
> *Rancher*


They could have carts though, to carry their stuff.


----------



## Redneck

TGus said:


> After taking over 50 houses worth of stuff, how many guns and ammunition do you think they have? HINT: A lot. Maybe they do a lot more more than "practice" killing people and attacking houses too, -and it's wasn't at the range.


OK, if I agree with you will you shut the F up? You are 100000000% correct. These city punks are gonna become weapons experts & tactical masters, just like Navy Seals, and they will be unstoppable. We all need to stop prepping, shut down this forum & kiss our asses goodbye. You happy now?


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> I don't mean to be a tease, but since I started this thread to correct some serious misconceptions about gangs I find on a lot of forums,


But you have your own misconceptions about these gangs and people in general. You're assuming that people will think and behave the same way they do under normal circumstances.


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> Of course not. They'll take the best guns with the most ammo for their group, and maybe trade the rest on the black market.


Why would they trade any of their ammo? An ammo is an ammo! They'd trade food before they'll trade an ammo.


----------



## A Watchman

TGus said:


> I have a job and 3 children. That should explain my absence.


Not really, I am amongst the many of us here who have kids and work full time plus jobs to support liberalism in this country. I would also suggest your hopeless survival worldview is tainted by your Bostonian Suburbanite existence. Never underestimate the staying power of some well armed Patriots.


----------



## hawgrider

Prepared One said:


> Are the cats still playing with the gangsta mouse? :devil:


----------



## charito

> Originally Posted by TGus View Post
> Of course not. They'll take the best guns with the most ammo for their group, and maybe trade the rest on the black market.


Trade ammo.........and arm people? :laugh:

Any gang leader who thinks that way wouldn't last long.


----------



## Coastie dad

Are you going to get on with answering my question about enlightening us, or are you going to continue parroting our comments, "inspiring us to think?"
At best you are probing our thoughts in an effort to create your own so you can develop what you believe to be a logical answer. Stop stalling and produce, or bugger off.


----------



## HochwaldJager




----------



## Yeti-2015

TGus said:


> How can they lack anything if they're taking over and raiding houses all along the way?


Because most of the people that I know around here have very little, to much time to waste when they get nothing. On top of that I'm over 5 miles off the main highway down a county road that has a few tees along the way. Now this highway is not traveled much, other than locals. I'm not saying to cant happen, just unlikely in this area. I live to far from a major metro. Driving would be over 2 hours, walking would be weeks.


----------



## The Tourist

TGus said:


> What if you have no electricity?


There are back-up batteries.


----------



## SOCOM42

The Tourist said:


> There are back-up batteries.


To go along with this, you can live without electric power, inconvenient? yes but it can be done.

Check history, up until 125 years there was none in use,

then it took until the late 40's and early 50's for the whole country to be wired.

When power goes out here, I think, good I can rest for a while, or if needed turn on a genset.

This place is geared for withdrawal from electric use if SHTF.


----------



## Redneck

TGus said:


> How can they lack anything if they're taking over and raiding houses all along the way?


This might be the stupidest thing you've stated... and that says a whole lot. Maybe city folk like you see the country folks as just awash in stored food. That the fields are just loaded with ripe produce like a supermarket & just waiting on folks to come stroll down the manicured rows to pick all the food they can carry. That even months into a crisis, when these gangs decide to move out into the country, that all these homes are still just loaded with food & all country folks are still fat & lazy.

Let me inform you something city boy. That ain't true. Most folks living out in the country aren't a whole lot different than stupid city folk. Most all Americans, no matter where they live, fail to stock food/supplies for an emergency. Many country folks are on a well but have no means of getting that water out of the ground without electricity. Point is, weeks or months into a crisis, all these houses these gangs will be raiding will be just as empty of food/supplies as the homes they left in the city.

Grow up & get your head out of your ass.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

TGus said:


> The 3rd type doesn't need transportation, except maybe a cart. They move from house to house within walking distance.


it is 5 miles between houses here.....


----------



## Coastie dad

Pretty apparent his wordly view of rural life was gleaned through arduous hours of studying Mayberry reruns.

All bun, no meat with this sandwich.


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## HochwaldJager

TGus when you find yourself in a hole for the love of all things holy please stop digging! Just wait for it to fill with water and hope you can swim to the top...


----------



## Smitty901

TGus said:


> What about the 3rd type that used to be your neighbors? Don't think you have everything under control. They will use ambush when you least expect it, and any element of surprise that works.


 Just how do you plan to get here. Good luck you will need it.


----------



## Deebo

MAde it to page 10, my head hurts.
Simple answer, in my neck of the woods, when "the flag drops" and the idiots run the streets, they will be picked off. 
You think the law only keeps criminals in line, wait until the law stops protecting these idiots. PURGE much?


----------



## Smitty901

He thinks Government troops will be arresting people. Wear the heck would they put them. If anything they will just shot them, when it gets that bad. He needs to get out of the city a while see what the rest of the world is like.
Homie anit so tough, just talks shit.


----------



## SGT E

First of all let me say this entire thread is bull****. TGus is watching too many Hollywood SHTF flicks...

The first problems with GANG's is on Day 3 after SHTF...your going to face is a dad with a couple of kids out looking for something to eat....knocking on neighbors doors....begging...You tell him your sorry you have nothing but he notices you are NOT out begging. If you give one a can of beans and you just told him you have food to share...he will be back!.....Run him off with a gun and do you think he will keep it to himself you have food...after all he is your neighbor...He will probably ask himself what ARE YOU HIDING??...He may threaten to blackmail you and let the cat out of the bag if he thinks you have food....all you have to do is keep supplying him and his family! After he tells several neighbors of either encounter..... next comes a couple of dads with a bunch of hungry kids at home coming at you with guns....some could be vets...Hell bent and feeding their kids. Look around people...they already surround you!

Gangs from Cities...ROFLMAO! You got a hell of a lot more to worry about before they get there!


----------



## tango

Methinks we are dealing with a typical new england liberal who wants to know how we "feel" about things.
I will tell you how I feel about gangbangers-- if they threaten me or mine, they are in for a really bad day!

Tell us what institution of higher learning you attended.


----------



## Chance Favors

OMG, just finished this thread and now I need a nap to quell my headache. Jesus, where to begin??? I deal with small mini-disasters on almost a yearly basis, it's called hurricane season. How fast a SHTF event would go downhill would depend on what type of event happened (forseen or unforseen). The vast majority of people do not stock anything in preparation for any type of event. 

What I've seen through living my entire life in Southern Louisiana is that when people know that something is coming (i.e. a hurricane), they immediately run supermarkets dry. It is almost impossible to find water, bread, lunch meat, or other basic food stuffs. So, if whatever SHTF event is known beforehand, the stores will already be empty, in which case gangs of any type would immediately be forced to search homes. A lot of people evacuate when a known event is approaching and generally take as much with them as possible, so there will be very little left in houses that were evacuated. The ones that stayed and sheltered in place (because we throw hurricane parties :vs_bananasplit: ) do have supplies stocked, but most only have enough to sustain themselves for about as long as they think the event would take place. 

Then you have unforseen events. Which you would see stores empty within a day, be it from people buying the goods or through looting. Yes, looting will begin immediately. Any gang activity would immediately have to search out away from their territories because the houses would either be empty of anything useful, or the ones that stayed would be in the same situation because by the time the gangs find them, their supplies are already running low, if not empty, from their own uses.

I watched the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. Common everyday (usually law abiding) people reverted to looting houses until the National Guard finally got there over a week later. 

I believe that the larger gangs will only flourish in the beginning when there are more supplies readily available. That is because the larger the gang, the more resources it will need to keep it's people fed. Eventually, with the supplies running out (very fast mind you), the larger gangs will collapse and break off into smaller manageable roaming groups. 

Depending on what type of event happens will determine who does what and when. If we are speaking of worst case scenarios (i.e. global event) the only people that will be equipped to survive are the ones that have a constant renewable food and water source as long as it produces enough to support the group that is there. 

The urban environment will be the first to collapse, simply because there is not nearly enough renewable resources for the population. The urban areas will quickly collapse and be abandoned. By the time any gangs get to any outlying community that does have adequate resources, it will be an immediate fight. Anyone with enough forethought to be prepared for the long run knows how many people they can support and those places will be reserved for family and the network they have created with people that can contribute to the group (i.e. doctors, farmers, and security personnel like vets and leos)

I can go on for days about this...


----------



## Maine-Marine

TGus said:


> Some do; many are wimps.
> 
> If the black market is not run by criminals, where do they get all their "stuff"?


Not all criminals are gang members!!!! this is one of the problems with the education system... I say chances are the black market will not be run by gangs and some how you conflate that to me saying gangs are not criminals..

do you understand WHY black markets happen ???

normally when government tries to set pricing or supply...

in a shtf event the person that has 2000000 cans of beans will not have to black market them unless the government is getting involved... 
.


----------



## 8301

HochwaldJager said:


> To be honest I'm more scarred of the onesies and twozies that sneak around your property, travel light and steal/kill for resources. In some cases I'd rather fight a huge known enemy than a solo punk with a good rifle in decent hands.....


Agreed, In the rural environment I live in with larger properties with outbuildings I think 1-3 people going through the buildings looking for supplies will be the primary problem. While I think there will be a lot less "no warning murders" to get supplies than most people here but I do understand the possibility and we have taken measures against middle of the night visitors. Even after an EMP we should have warning before a person is able to get within 100 yds of the house.


----------



## Deebo

I like you already @Chance Favors


----------



## Maine-Marine

Chipper said:


> 2 foot of snow and 20 below won't be very friendly for the gangs. Running around with their a$$es hanging out and pants down to their knees will make easy targets compared to a running deer.


i always say EMP in december, mass die off


----------



## Deebo

@Chance Favors, tried sending you a private message, says your not set up ?


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## Chance Favors

I literally just signed up for this forum less than an hour ago.


----------



## Redneck

Deebo said:


> @Chance Favors, tried sending you a private message, says your not set up ?


I think they recently changed permissions here and if I remember correctly, a member has to have something like 20 posts before they can PM.


----------



## Chance Favors

******* said:


> I think they recently changed permissions here and if I remember correctly, a member has to have something like 20 posts before they can PM.


Ah, makes sense.


----------



## Chance Favors

I tried looking in the private messages. It shows an inbox, but only the welcome message.


----------



## Deebo

Oh, well, young lad, you have made a lasting impression.
My cousins husband was on the Choppers for the National Guard in Katrina, helping pull people.
I asked him about the "lawlessness" that he encountered, and of course, because they were armed, most people were "very polite" and cooperative around them.
He did say he punched a fat guy, who was trying to take a MRE from someone else.


----------



## Chance Favors

Deebo said:


> He did say he punched a fat guy, who was trying to take a MRE from someone else.


That was actually very common. And yes, the people did act polite...once the National Guard was there. Prior to that, everyone was armed to the teeth and there were many, many faceoffs with guns pointed at each other until both walked away.


----------



## charito

SGT E said:


> TGus is watching too many Hollywood SHTF flicks...


....and looks like they're b-movies too! :vs_laugh:


----------



## Smitty901

As active duty when we were there for Katrina. Just happen to be there on other Army duty. We were limited by law on what we could do. We did take a break for our mission to support efforts to help.
Lot of crap was going on. Few understand the legal difference between National guard and active duty. There are some major ones. That is why they need to be real careful when deciding to federalize the Guard.
Lot of rules change when they do.


----------



## Chance Favors

Smitty901 said:


> As active duty when we were there for Katrina. Just happen to be there on other Army duty. We were limited by law on what we could do. We did take a break for our mission to support efforts to help.
> Lot of crap was going on. Few understand the legal difference between National guard and active duty. There are some major ones. That is why they need to be real careful when deciding to federalize the Guard.
> Lot of rules change when they do.


Yes it does. Katrina occurred after my military service had ended and prior to my becoming a LEO. However, I was working as a line technician for AT&T at the time already assigned to Downtown New Orleans, so I was with the first group allowed back into the city. It's a very disconcerting feeling driving by someone whom you could tell had not eaten in days and living the cartoon scene when the starving buzzard looks at Bugs Bunny and watches him turn into a walking steak.


----------



## Smitty901

Chance Favors said:


> Yes it does. Katrina occurred after my military service had ended and prior to my becoming a LEO. However, I was working as a line technician for AT&T at the time already assigned to Downtown New Orleans, so I was with the first group allowed back into the city. It's a very disconcerting feeling driving by someone whom you could tell had not eaten in days and living the cartoon scene when the starving buzzard looks at Bugs Bunny and watches him turn into a walking steak.


 Notice the difference with Trump over FEMA this time and no liberal State officials getting in the way. What a difference and it two major areas at once.


----------



## Gator Monroe

There be Kluxers in them woods ( Cue banjo & guitar music from 1972 feature film "Deliverance")


----------



## Chance Favors

Smitty901 said:


> Notice the difference with Trump over FEMA this time and no liberal State officials getting in the way. What a difference and it two major areas at once.


I very much see the difference. Neither Trump, nor any directors in FEMA want to be reference to the debacle that occurred after Katrina. To this day people still talk about the day the federal government turned it's back on it's own citizens. I'm glad Trump is doing what he can to change things, albeit he is being fought by all the all of the Fat Cats that want nothing to change. That being said, don't think that it couldn't happen again.


----------



## SGT E

Gator Monroe said:


> There be Kluxers in them woods ( Cue banjo & guitar music from 1972 feature film "Deliverance")


----------



## azrancher

TGus said:


> Of course not. They'll take the best guns with the most ammo for their group, and maybe trade the rest on the black market.


This black market you have a fetish about, do you really think there will be a black market when gangs are going from house to house, city to city?

You are a dreamer, most would say you are in fantasy land.

*Rancher *


----------



## Smitty901

Chance Favors said:


> I very much see the difference. Neither Trump, nor any directors in FEMA want to be reference to the debacle that occurred after Katrina. To this day people still talk about the day the federal government turned it's back on it's own citizens. I'm glad Trump is doing what he can to change things, albeit he is being fought by all the all of the Fat Cats that want nothing to change. That being said, don't think that it couldn't happen again.


 It was FEMA that did not have a clue what they were doing or did they care. We saw that they were staying near us it was party time for them.


----------



## Chance Favors

Smitty901 said:


> It was FEMA that did not have a clue what they were doing or did they care. We saw that they were staying near us it was party time for them.


Of course it was. FEMA was almost as useless then as the American Red Cross is right now.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

so.. gangs going door-to-door will gain limitless and unstopable experience.. yet the "gang" defending their farmsteads, having repelled numerous other attacks, knowing the lay of the land, choke points, ambush areas, and having weeks/months to plan, prepare, practice numerous defensive tactics and cover locations/hideouts, having lookouts that see scouts/gangs coming from 2 miles away...... stand no chance to these juggernauts??.. I like my chances...


----------



## Coastie dad

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> so.. gangs going door-to-door will gain limitless and unstopable experience.. yet the "gang" defending their farmsteads, having repelled numerous other attacks, knowing the lay of the land, choke points, ambush areas, and having weeks/months to plan, prepare, practice numerous defensive tactics and cover locations/hideouts, having lookouts that see scouts/gangs coming from 2 miles away...... stand no chance to these juggernauts??.. I like my chances...
> 
> View attachment 54954


Yes, I believe you understand what our illustrious new guru is saying. We are over confident, delusional, and don't have the insight to our rural lives that he possesses from his suburban Boston home.
Abandon hope. For he who is all knowing still has not answered my damned question.


----------



## Smitty901

880 yards in a 1/2 mile, not an impossible shot with a real good rifle and a practiced shooter. 440 yards in a 1/4 mile easy shot for most practiced shooters with a good rifle. Many that live in towns and cities can not understand that some of use will have a clear shot long before they get near us. As I said before the dogs will let us know you are around 1/2 mile away. We shot the long guns about once a month average and hang guns more often.. Homie generally hits a house they were not aiming for .
As for the movie trick of tossing the dog a steak . Nope the dog will deal with you then eat the steak as a treat. Unlike those that live in town we live and have lived for a life time with out police protection. All LEO does is come do the paper work. Or come to help in medical emergence. EMT and Volunteer Fire department show up much sooner. Not LEO fault just a fact of life. 
Defending and protecting our self is nothing new. Post SHTF we will just up it a bit more. Our final line of defense will be moved out some.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

I agree that their will likely be formidable gangs that spring up.... possibly even from "neighbors" any large force marauding across the countryside will require constant resupply, and communication. this would require taking over small towns, staying put until the majority of those resources are consumed, and then moving on to the next target like parasites. cut their supply, and communication.. and meet them on a ground of your choosing... and a much smaller force could knock the fight out of them pretty quick...


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Smitty901 said:


> 880 yards in a 1/2 mile, not an impossible shot with a real good rifle and a practiced shooter. 440 yards in a 1/4 mile easy shot for most practiced shooters with a good rifle. Many that live in towns and cities can not understand that some of use will have a clear shot long before they get near us. As I said before the dogs will let us know you are around 1/2 mile away. We shot the long guns about once a month average and hang guns more often.. Homie generally hits a house they were not aiming for .
> As for the movie trick of tossing the dog a steak . Nope the dog will deal with you then eat the steak as a treat. Unlike those that live in town we live and have lived for a life time with out police protection. All LEO does is come do the paper work. Or come to help in medical emergence. EMT and Volunteer Fire department show up much sooner. Not LEO fault just a fact of life.
> Defending and protecting our self is nothing new. Post SHTF we will just up it a bit more. Our final line of defense will be moved out some.


my first dear was a 200yd running shot with an open-sight 303british enfield..... I was 12... it is the norm in these parts..


----------



## Smitty901

Range cards cover every foot of the area in all direction . Homie will never even hear the shot.


----------



## Smitty901

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> my first dear was a 200yd running shot with an open-sight 303british enfield..... I was 12... it is the norm in these parts..


Range cards cover every foot of the area in all direction . Homie will never even hear the shot.
Funny the 303 Enfield is laying right next to me


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

Smitty901 said:


> Range cards cover every foot of the area in all direction . Homie will never even hear the shot.
> Funny the 303 Enfield is laying right next to me


had to pick rock by hand to pay for it..... and then eventually replaced it with one chambered in 308...


----------



## Steve40th

There is going to be allot of dead gang members.


----------



## TGus

Denton said:


> You were a college teacher (professor)? What did you teach? A lot of us, here, sat through a lot of college courses. Which ones might we have in common?
> 
> Some of us worked the streets as cops, and some of us worked the prisons. Some of us have military experience that includes not technical but tactical training. Some of us have lived in lousy parts of cities. Some of us have dealt with gang members. I'm one of those who can check off all of those points.
> 
> Please, tell me why you think you understand this better than I do. Personally, I find your opening post superficial and has all the earmarks of an expert wannabe.
> 
> You've wandered into a cyber community that is chock full of people who have real world experience, and we find your responses wholly inadequate. Please, redeem yourself.


I taught 6 courses related to programming and Artificial Intelligence.

I understand that a lot of you have more experience in many areas than I do. Part of the reason I posted something so superficial is because in my 19 years of prepping, I've continually come across a lot of preppers that don't understand the fundamentals of certain subjects, much less how to prepare for them. That frustrates me. Another reason I post about these things is that I want to learn from you. Here's another frustration that I have here: the replies to my threads don't contain much helpful extra information. People either agree or disagree, but don't add much helpful information. Well, I'm new here. Maybe that will pass. Maybe you can give me some advice beyond the good advice you've already given me. Thanks!


----------



## TGus

charito said:


> They could get snuff by those very people.
> And that's erroneously assuming that all people are of the same mind. How do you know no one will snitch?
> Not all "vigilantes" necessarily work out in groups, either. You could have a quiet Charles Bronson deathwish persona among the people.
> 
> Don't compare normal times with that apocalyptic-type of scenario.
> In a Mad-Max scenario - probably a good number of people are half-mad. Would you be safe among starving, mad people? Especially, if you're among those who victimized them in the first place?
> 
> Furthermore, if they're going to hide among the people - they'll have to hide among the same race. A black will stand out in a latino community and vice versa.
> 
> To assume - especially, naively - is the #1 mistake one can make. What movie line was that again?
> _ "Assumption is the mother of all f***-ups?"_


If you want to know whether they'll snitch, look at gang controlled communities and how difficult it is for police to get any information about a crime everyone in the community knows about. A lot of those people hate the gangs, -but they won't snitch.

I doubt that gangs of one race will try to control communities of another race. The connection between a minority gang and its host community is mutually supportive in many subtle ways that cannot be reproduced unless the are the same race.


----------



## TGus

charito said:


> As long as you don't flaunt your stockpile, and they think you're starving like the rest of them, or have not been an inconsiderate neighbor and therefore they'd got axes to grind against you, what's in it for them to get you? Especially if they're your neighbors? More likely, they'll ask you to join them!


By "neighbors", I meant people from the same area as you live, not people you are acquainted with. Sorry for the mistake.


----------



## TGus

******* said:


> OK, if I agree with you will you shut the F up? You are 100000000% correct. These city punks are gonna become weapons experts & tactical masters, just like Navy Seals, and they will be unstoppable. We all need to stop prepping, shut down this forum & kiss our asses goodbye. You happy now?


LOL. Nice takedown!


----------



## Chance Favors

TGus said:


> I taught 6 courses related to programming and Artificial Intelligence.
> 
> I understand that a lot of you have more experience in many areas than I do. Part of the reason I posted something so superficial is because in my 19 years of prepping, I've continually come across a lot of preppers that don't understand the fundamentals of certain subjects, much less how to prepare for them. That frustrates me. Another reason I post about these things is that I want to learn from you. Here's another frustration that I have here: the replies to my threads don't contain much helpful extra information. People either agree or disagree, but don't add much helpful information. Well, I'm new here. Maybe that will pass. Maybe you can give me some advice beyond the good advice you've already given me. Thanks!


Well for starts, you claim to have 19 years of prepping under your belt, but then admit that you have no real world experience. Your areas of teaching have about as much to do with a SHTF event as a course in Lesbian Dance Theory. Instead of insisting that the people you talk to don't grasp the basic concepts of prepping, maybe it's you who doesn't understand. I am in the same boat with Denton, I am prior military, I am a certified Firefighter, I was formerly licensed as an EMT-B, then I became a LEO and started out in Corrections, working my way to patrol and SWAT. Not to mention that I have been in SHTF incidents since Sept 11, 2001. So instead of challenging the people with more experience on why you're right, if you have a question, ask it. Just don't defend your position when you don't get the answers you want. I would rather teach someone who admits they don't know rather than deal with someone who thinks they know better.


----------



## TGus

Posted below


----------



## TGus

hawgrider said:


>


That happened a long time ago.


----------



## TGus

charito said:


> But you have your own misconceptions about these gangs and people in general. You're assuming that people will think and behave the same way they do under normal circumstances.


Based on what I know of gangs, this is what I believe 3 major gang types will be after SHTF. If I'm wrong, please correct me.


----------



## Chance Favors

TGus said:


> That happened a long time ago.


Every time you post, it goes a step further. Case in point, is you starting another thread to teach all us neanderthals about the Home Invasion Gangs Part 1. It seems to me that you're not qualified to teach my dog to sit. Like I said, the only thing worse than someone who is incompetent is someone who is incompetent and doesn't know it.


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> Are you going to get on with answering my question about enlightening us, or are you going to continue parroting our comments, "inspiring us to think?"
> At best you are probing our thoughts in an effort to create your own so you can develop what you believe to be a logical answer. Stop stalling and produce, or bugger off.


Part I is posted. The rest comes later this weekend. I have to edit Part II; it's too long.


----------



## TGus

Yeti-2015 said:


> Because most of the people that I know around here have very little, to much time to waste when they get nothing. On top of that I'm over 5 miles off the main highway down a county road that has a few tees along the way. Now this highway is not traveled much, other than locals. I'm not saying to cant happen, just unlikely in this area. I live to far from a major metro. Driving would be over 2 hours, walking would be weeks.


Consider yourself lucky.


----------



## Chance Favors

TGus said:


> Part I is posted. The rest comes later this weekend. I have to edit Part II; it's too long.


You're still missing the point. You don't have the credibility to teach anything to this group. Instead, since you obviously don't have any idea what you are talking about, listen to the people with actual experience and you might learn something.


----------



## TGus

Chance Favors said:


> Well for starts, you claim to have 19 years of prepping under your belt, but then admit that you have no real world experience. Your areas of teaching have about as much to do with a SHTF event as a course in Lesbian Dance Theory. Instead of insisting that the people you talk to don't grasp the basic concepts of prepping, maybe it's you who doesn't understand. I am in the same boat with Denton, I am prior military, I am a certified Firefighter, I was formerly licensed as an EMT-B, then I became a LEO and started out in Corrections, working my way to patrol and SWAT. Not to mention that I have been in SHTF incidents since Sept 11, 2001. So instead of challenging the people with more experience on why you're right, if you have a question, ask it. Just don't defend your position when you don't get the answers you want. I would rather teach someone who admits they don't know rather than deal with someone who thinks they know better.


I worked with the MA Dept. of Fire Services for 5 years. What camaraderie and esprit de corp I witnessed there! Fond memories.

Learning is a back-and-forth argument. One points out what he thinks is a weakness in the other's argument, then the other puts him in his place.


----------



## TGus

Chance Favors said:


> Every time you post, it goes a step further. Case in point, is you starting another thread to teach all us neanderthals about the Home Invasion Gangs Part 1. It seems to me that you're not qualified to teach my dog to sit. Like I said, the only thing worse than someone who is incompetent is someone who is incompetent and doesn't know it.


I did that as a favor to a member who requested it in LARGE type. Who can ignore large type?


----------



## TGus

Chance Favors said:


> You're still missing the point. You don't have the credibility to teach anything to this group. Instead, since you obviously don't have any idea what you are talking about, listen to the people with actual experience and you might learn something.


Not everyone here is as advanced in prepping as you or I. They need to start somewhere.


----------



## Chance Favors

TGus said:


> I worked with the MA Dept. of Fire Services for 5 years. What camaraderie and esprit de corp I witnessed there! Fond memories.
> 
> Learning is a back-and-forth argument. One points out what he thinks is a weakness in the other's argument, then the other puts him in his place.





TGus said:


> I did that as a favor to a member who requested it in LARGE type. Who can ignore large type?





TGus said:


> Not everyone here is as advanced in prepping as you or I. They need to start somewhere.


You really don't understand sarcasm. Yes, learning is back and forth when you have something real to teach. Your ideas sound like they are based in bad movies. In most situations, nobody would care if you rant on about how you think the Marauders will rule the world, rape our daughters and force the few spared men to fight in the Thunderdome for table scraps. Hell we all are having a good laugh at it because you really believe it. If you want to learn, you first should learn from someone who can say they've been there. Working for the MA Dept of Fire Services is the closest you've said to having even a smidgen of theoretical knowledge to share, but you have not said what you did for them, nor have any of your rants had anything to do with the Fire Service. You rant about theoretical marauders that will rule the planet. If you want to learn, ask a question, and then shut up and listen. Don't ask our opinions on things you know nothing about and then think you're going to school us with theory.


----------



## ND_ponyexpress_

First rule of prep club... don't talk about prep club.. 2nd rule of prep club.. don't talk about prep club.. 3rd rule of prep club.. don't live in CA.. 4th rule of prep club.. obviously is to avoid the unbeatable gangs in the Boston suburbs....


----------



## Coastie dad

chance favors said:


> you really don't understand sarcasm. Yes, learning is back and forth when you have something real to teach. Your ideas sound like they are based in bad movies. In most situations, nobody would care if you rant on about how you think the marauders will rule the world, rape our daughters and force the few spared men to fight in the thunderdome for table scraps. Hell we all are having a good laugh at it because you really believe it. If you want to learn, you first should learn from someone who can say they've been there. Working for the ma dept of fire services is the closest you've said to having even a smidgen of theoretical knowledge to share, but you have not said what you did for them, nor have any of your rants had anything to do with the fire service. You rant about theoretical marauders that will rule the planet. If you want to learn, ask a question, and then shut up and listen. Don't ask our opinions on things you know nothing about and then think you're going to school us with theory.





tgus said:


> i did that as a favor to a member who requested it in large type. Who can ignore large type?


ooh ooh ooh! That was me! That was me! Guy did that for me!


----------



## TGus

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> First rule of prep club... don't talk about prep club.. 2nd rule of prep club.. don't talk about prep club.. 3rd rule of prep club.. don't live in CA.. 4th rule of prep club.. obviously is to avoid the unbeatable gangs in the Boston suburbs....


We used to have some big gangs. The Blacks, Hispanics and Whites all had several gangs. They're all gone now, or we never hear about them. Those were interesting times back in the 60's and 70's.


----------



## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> ooh ooh ooh! That was me! That was me! Guy did that for me!


You bet your ass, -and I'd do it again.


----------



## Chance Favors

TGus said:


> We used to have some big gangs. The Blacks, Hispanics and Whites all had several gangs. They're all gone now, or we never hear about them. Those were interesting times back in the 60's and 70's.


Was that the inspiration for West Side Story?


----------



## TGus

azrancher said:


> This black market you have a fetish about, do you really think there will be a black market when gangs are going from house to house, city to city?
> 
> You are a dreamer, most would say you are in fantasy land.
> 
> *Rancher *


I think the Traditional gangs will keep the Home invasion gangs out. If there's a strong Traditional gang presence in the city, Home Invasion gangs will settle for the suburbs. Traditional gangs protect the people on their turf, (for selfish reasons mostly); that's part of where they get their power in their neighborhoods. In fact, if they know what's good for them, (and they will), the Home Invasion gangs will just stay far away from the Traditional gangs' territory.

The black market benefits everybody; they won't be kept out, though the Traditional gangs will want a piece of the pie.


----------



## TGus

TGus said:


> Based on what I know of gangs, this is what I believe 3 major gang types will be after SHTF. If I'm wrong, please correct me.


The first 2 types already exist in the USA. The third type pops up around the world wherever law enforcement is nonexistent. What I described is what I think will happen after SHTF, or if we lose law enforcement.


----------



## TGus

Chance Favors said:


> Every time you post, it goes a step further. Case in point, is you starting another thread to teach all us neanderthals about the Home Invasion Gangs Part 1. It seems to me that you're not qualified to teach my dog to sit. Like I said, the only thing worse than someone who is incompetent is someone who is incompetent and doesn't know it.


I don't consider anyone here a "neanderthal". Many of you have a great deal of experience and service to our country. As for being incompetent and not knowing it, that's probably true, and is the primary reason why I'm here. You will straighten me out eventually. I trust you for that.

P.S. Neanderthals got a bum rap. I admire everything I read about them.


----------



## TGus

Chance Favors said:


> Was that the inspiration for West Side Story?


I think that was purely a New York thing. We didn't have many inter-racial romances back then. I did end up marrying a Chinese girl though!


----------



## azrancher

TGus said:


> I think that was purely a New York thing. We didn't have many inter-racial romances back then. I did end up marrying a Chinese girl though!


Ahhh Haaa, he married a sleeper, he's just gathering information for the ******

*Rancher*


----------



## Chance Favors

azrancher said:


> Ahhh Haaa, he married a sleeper, he's just gathering information for the ******
> 
> *Rancher*


Wow. Not even I was going to go there.


----------



## TGus

azrancher said:


> Ahhh Haaa, he married a sleeper, he's just gathering information for the ******
> 
> *Rancher*


Believe me, she doesn't do much sleeping! Fraternizing with the enemy has its benefits.


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> If you want to know whether they'll snitch, look at gang controlled communities and how difficult it is for police to get any information about a crime everyone in the community knows about. A lot of those people hate the gangs, -but they won't snitch.
> 
> I doubt that gangs of one race will try to control communities of another race. The connection between a minority gang and its host community is mutually supportive in many subtle ways that cannot be reproduced unless the are the same race.


Tgus, you're ignoring something that throws a wrench to your assumption - it's survival time! It's not about hate. 
It's about survival! You don't have to hate someone to kill him. All he had to be is to be a threat to your survival. 
But what more if you hate him? You'll have two birds in one shot. :tango_face_grin:

Whether they snitch or not, is irrelevant. There could be no more law and order by then, no cops! 
If there is law of any kind at all, it will most likely be martial law (or something similar)!

Gangs will be dealt with, whether someone snitched or not - the military will see to that! The military will want no competition in a Mad Max scenario. Urban gangs will be forced out of the city if it ever comes to that - and, the military won't just be in the city, you know. Gangs will be forced to keep moving with nowhere to go except probably into the bush. Guess who'll greet them in the bush? :tango_face_grin:

There won't be any trial, either. Or any reading of Miranda rights! They could get executed on sight!

If the military takes over, chances are gang members or any criminals will be summarily executed....for the simple reason that taking out the rotten ones (and the threat), would also mean lesser mouths to feed!


----------



## charito

Steve40th said:


> There is going to be allot of dead gang members.


You bet. It'll be open season on them. :tango_face_grin:


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> Not everyone here is as advanced in prepping as you or I. They need to start somewhere.


Prepping of any kind won't do you any good if you're planning for a fantasy scenario.
Your assumptions aren't realistic at all.

You're almost awed by them....awed by the power they wield among the people *today*. 
What I'm getting from you is that you'd be thinking of joining up with these urban gang when the SHTF?

Am I right? Is that the plan?


----------



## charito

TGus said:


> Based on what I know of gangs, this is what I believe 3 major gang types will be after SHTF. If I'm wrong, please correct me.


You're forgetting the most possible military "gang." What if we're under martial law? 
Or, if there's anything that's operated by military people? They got the sophisticated equipment!

Surely, in a SHTF scenario, the military people will know that they got the best chances for survival if they remain together as one "family?" I won't be surprised if they - or some of them - already have a manifesto for the SHTF scenario.

They already have control of military bases with their impressive arsenals, and their training in combat! They got food and water! Not only will they protect what they have, but they'll make sure they eliminate the threats!

That certainly means eliminating gangs, organized crimes....and maybe civilians! 
What's stopping them from shooting missiles? Civilians?

If you want to join a gang, that's the gang I'd join with. If they'll take in outsiders......


----------



## Yeti-2015

TGus said:


> Consider yourself lucky.


I do. Thanks.


----------



## yooper_sjd

TGus said:


> How can they lack anything if they're taking over and raiding houses all along the way?


TGus, guess you don't realize history always repeats itself on grand and small scale........ How did the german army do in the winter of 42-43 in russia, or even Napoleans troops 100 yrs before that??? I believe they took every thing and raided along the way as well. 
and now back to page 8 and another pot of coffee!


----------



## yooper_sjd

Coastie dad said:


> It better be good, because you haven't caught on to this group's psychology yet. And if you think there is a non violent answer to violent predators, you don't have near the experience you claim. Animals understand power. If you think you can assimilate them into your group or convince them of a peaceful truce without violating your own morals then you are speaking to the wrong group. Paying a tribute to a Gang? Yeah...they want to do that in some leftist areas. Pay the bad guys to not do bad things. Won't work. Tribute costs increase, because you've given them power.
> Better make this long explanation thread good. And most people around here won't read a long, drawn out manifesto. Might do you well to cut right to it. Because so far all your answers have been nothing more than dodges trying to get us to talk about your mythical third group. So how about stopping with the therapist crap of asking us how we feel about something, and speak your Mind? You're wanting to anyway, and I suspect you are trying to build false credibility by sounding as if you have answers but want us to think first.
> We aren't your students or clients. Defecate or vacate the porcelain.


That response right there Coastie dad hit me as last season of the walking dead........ Guess TGus been watching a past season marathon of it, but you nailed the TGus nail right sqare on the head!!:vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:


----------



## yooper_sjd

Here is one for TGus to learn, and can only be learned from experience. How will you keep your cool, your wits about you in your application of non lethal force in your neighborhood when there are bullets snapping overhead, zipping by you as you wave your white flag to bribe your "Gangs" with tribute????????? and now back to page 11 and another cup of coffee.


----------



## yooper_sjd

TGus said:


> I taught 6 courses related to programming and Artificial Intelligence.
> 
> I understand that a lot of you have more experience in many areas than I do. Part of the reason I posted something so superficial is because in my 19 years of prepping, I've continually come across a lot of preppers that don't understand the fundamentals of certain subjects, much less how to prepare for them. That frustrates me. Another reason I post about these things is that I want to learn from you. Here's another frustration that I have here: the replies to my threads don't contain much helpful extra information. People either agree or disagree, but don't add much helpful information. Well, I'm new here. Maybe that will pass. Maybe you can give me some advice beyond the good advice you've already given me. Thanks!


Been reading this thread since page one this morn, and two pots of coffee later; so far I have seen you were a Professor, shrink counselor, and work at the IRS. Now being a father with 3 kids and working, how you have you dicked up 2 jobs (of which yrs of schooling are involved to qualify for) to end up working for IRS. Oh sorry, started to get off topic here, but in the long wrong we are looking at 6 to 8 yrs of schooling minimum for two of these job positions. So how the hell you jump from programming to prison counselor which are two totally separate fields of study, then to working for the government extortion agency??? I see no qualifications to be preaching from pulpit on surviving a total society meltdown! So hence I throw the bullshit flag into the keyboard gladiatorial arena!

Now with you stating on getting some experience from some of us here, I can teach you about Military Marsmanship (as to I was a SAMI), how to repair weapons (Armorer), how to set explosive charges, how to navigate tight quarters on a ship looking for armed intruders, how to repel boarders (some of these skills work well also in buildings)...... If you need enlightenment just ask (Damn, page 17, more coffee and only 3 more pages to go!!!!!!!!!)


----------



## yooper_sjd

TGus said:


> I worked with the MA Dept. of Fire Services for 5 years. What camaraderie and esprit de corp I witnessed there! Fond memories.
> 
> Learning is a back-and-forth argument. One points out what he thinks is a weakness in the other's argument, then the other puts him in his place.


ok now make that 4 jobs................. Oh I got 20 yrs experience working with fire fighters. When you are in the Navy and onboard ship, all hands are in the fire department. Should have added that to resume in previous post...........


----------



## Chance Favors

yooper_sjd said:


> Been reading this thread since page one this morn, and two pots of coffee later; so far I have seen you were a Professor, shrink counselor, and work at the IRS. Now being a father with 3 kids and working, how you have you dicked up 2 jobs (of which yrs of schooling are involved to qualify for) to end up working for IRS. Oh sorry, started to get off topic here, but in the long wrong we are looking at 6 to 8 yrs of schooling minimum for two of these job positions. So how the hell you jump from programming to prison counselor which are two totally separate fields of study, then to working for the government extortion agency??? I see no qualifications to be preaching from pulpit on surviving a total society meltdown! So hence I throw the bullshit flag into the keyboard gladiatorial arena!
> 
> Now with you stating on getting some experience from some of us here, I can teach you about Military Marsmanship (as to I was a SAMI), how to repair weapons (Armorer), how to set explosive charges, how to navigate tight quarters on a ship looking for armed intruders, how to repel boarders (some of these skills work well also in buildings)...... If you need enlightenment just ask (Damn, page 17, more coffee and only 3 more pages to go!!!!!!!!!)





yooper_sjd said:


> ok now make that 4 jobs................. Oh I got 20 yrs experience working with fire fighters. When you are in the Navy and onboard ship, all hands are in the fire department. Should have added that to resume in previous post...........


I feel your pain, I started reading this yesterday morning. I'm not sure what this guy is hoping to accomplish, but I'm starting to think he actually believes his own rhetoric. He really does not understand that nobody here is buying his crap and all he's doing is aggravating people who are serious about prepping.


----------



## yooper_sjd

TGus said:


> Not everyone here is as advanced in prepping as you or I. They need to start somewhere.


:77::77::77: Really???? Your advanced prepping?????? You got a fallout shelter??? I don't. You got 2 yrs of MREs???? I don't. The only thing I see you doing are these Thesis threads you start as Coastie dad keeps on you about. There are plenty of threads of zombie gangs, how to hold out ect. But normally the threads are along the line of Scenario (a) (b), your thoughts and inputs. Not a damned lecture. So far I have seen no input on prep!!!!! Do you reload? DO you even own a shotgun???? Do you have a bug out plan for leaving your liberal bastion? Do you have alternate routes to get out? Or are you bugging in?

Hell at least when I joined this forum, I introduced myself, my military background, and my skill sets I have to offer information on.


----------



## Gator Monroe

SGT E said:


>


Young Joe Scarborough won a Grammy for his performance on Banjo in that Song & Movie...


----------



## A Watchman

I've got 30 years identifying and managing dumbasses, jackasses, idiots, chicken shits, horseshit, and bullshit .... care know my evaluation on this thread?


----------



## TGus

charito said:


> Tgus, you're ignoring something that throws a wrench to your assumption - it's survival time! It's not about hate.
> It's about survival! You don't have to hate someone to kill him. All he had to be is to be a threat to your survival.
> But what more if you hate him? You'll have two birds in one shot. :tango_face_grin:
> 
> Whether they snitch or not, is irrelevant. There could be no more law and order by then, no cops!
> If there is law of any kind at all, it will most likely be martial law (or something similar)!
> 
> Gangs will be dealt with, whether someone snitched or not - the military will see to that! The military will want no competition in a Mad Max scenario. Urban gangs will be forced out of the city if it ever comes to that - and, the military won't just be in the city, you know. Gangs will be forced to keep moving with nowhere to go except probably into the bush. Guess who'll greet them in the bush? :tango_face_grin:
> 
> There won't be any trial, either. Or any reading of Miranda rights! They could get executed on sight!
> 
> If the military takes over, chances are gang members or any criminals will be summarily executed....for the simple reason that taking out the rotten ones (and the threat), would also mean lesser mouths to feed!


I would always seek to kill dispassionately, because anger and hate degrade judgement. It may not be possible, but I would try.


----------



## TGus

yooper_sjd said:


> That response right there Coastie dad hit me as last season of the walking dead........ Guess TGus been watching a past season marathon of it, but you nailed the TGus nail right sqare on the head!!:vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:


I don't watch TV, though I _do _live horror shows and flicks.


----------



## yooper_sjd

TGus said:


> I would always seek to kill dispassionately, because anger and hate degrade judgement. It may not be possible, but I would try.


there is dispassionately when you have to look at killing a human. It is either him or you in split second decision!!!!! The trick is you need to hate every one equally! Guess you never put on a uniform where you had to carry a weapon for defense of yourself/other/or country............. You learn to not think of them as a person, but a target, you train to shoot center mass, you shoot alot like this for it to become muscle memory. Just your mind making that split second decision to squeeze that trigger. The rest becomes reflex


----------



## TGus

yooper_sjd said:


> Been reading this thread since page one this morn, and two pots of coffee later; so far I have seen you were a Professor, shrink counselor, and work at the IRS. Now being a father with 3 kids and working, how you have you dicked up 2 jobs (of which yrs of schooling are involved to qualify for) to end up working for IRS. Oh sorry, started to get off topic here, but in the long wrong we are looking at 6 to 8 yrs of schooling minimum for two of these job positions. So how the hell you jump from programming to prison counselor which are two totally separate fields of study, then to working for the government extortion agency??? I see no qualifications to be preaching from pulpit on surviving a total society meltdown! So hence I throw the bullshit flag into the keyboard gladiatorial arena!
> 
> Now with you stating on getting some experience from some of us here, I can teach you about Military Marsmanship (as to I was a SAMI), how to repair weapons (Armorer), how to set explosive charges, how to navigate tight quarters on a ship looking for armed intruders, how to repel boarders (some of these skills work well also in buildings)...... If you need enlightenment just ask (Damn, page 17, more coffee and only 3 more pages to go!!!!!!!!!)


I have 2 Masters degrees: Clinical Psychology and Artificial Intelligence.

In jobs, I often use them together. For example, at the Dept, of Fire Services, I developed an interface/program/database that allowed everyone involved in a HAZMAT effort to know what everyone else was doing at the time, what their current orders were, and what they needed, etc. It requires some A.I. to filter what any person most needed to see, and an understanding of how responders have to operate under stress.

I'd like pointers on military marksmanship if you want to create a thread about that. I'm sure a lot of other people on this forum could contribute something important, (even I could contribute something about how to compensate for hand tremors).


----------



## Coastie dad

Here's an issue I see where there is a rub between us and you. You've pretty much spelled it out, but nobody has put words to it yet, I think. Now, please note that in this particular post I'm not going to be snarky, hateful, sarcastic, rude, or any of the other fine tactics of communications I've developed. Don't get used to it.

You are a thinker. We are doers. Therein lies the differences in perspectives.


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## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> Here's an issue I see where there is a rub between us and you. You've pretty much spelled it out, but nobody has put words to it yet, I think. Now, please note that in this particular post I'm not going to be snarky, hateful, sarcastic, rude, or any of the other fine tactics of communications I've developed. Don't get used to it.
> 
> You are a thinker. We are doers. Therein lies the differences in perspectives.


That's why I'm here.

The extent of my hands-on knowledge is hunting with a bow, trapping, shooting at a range, prepping skills, and living in the Appalachians for a week at a time without food or a tent every year.


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## Coastie dad

Well, instead of trying to ingratiate yourself to us by expounding on your theories as if you were talking to undergrads eager to hang on your every word, how about just simply talking to us instead of at us? Some of us may be interested in your Appalachian adventures and how you forage and shelter. Bear in mind, you won't be the only one with skills and experience, so we can sniff bull dung purty quick around here. Maybe it's your high falutin' Bostonian tone that you need to smooth some edges off of.
I'm trying to extend a bit of an olive branch here, even though I'm sure I'm not speaking for several of the members when I do so. I just have this cursed problem of trying to make peace before we go scorched earth policy.


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## Chance Favors

Coastie dad said:


> Well, instead of trying to ingratiate yourself to us by expounding on your theories as if you were talking to undergrads eager to hang on your every word, how about just simply talking to us instead of at us? Some of us may be interested in your Appalachian adventures and how you forage and shelter. Bear in mind, you won't be the only one with skills and experience, so we can sniff bull dung purty quick around here. Maybe it's your high falutin' Bostonian tone that you need to smooth some edges off of.
> I'm trying to extend a bit of an olive branch here, even though I'm sure I'm not speaking for several of the members when I do so. I just have this cursed problem of trying to make peace before we go scorched earth policy.


 @Coastie dad you are so much more eloquent with your words than I am. I'm trying to be good, I really am, but I'm normally the guy that uses F-bombs like a comma and 5.56 62gr green tips as exclamation points.


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## TGus

yooper_sjd said:


> there is dispassionately when you have to look at killing a human. It is either him or you in split second decision!!!!! The trick is you need to hate every one equally! Guess you never put on a uniform where you had to carry a weapon for defense of yourself/other/or country............. You learn to not think of them as a person, but a target, you train to shoot center mass, you shoot alot like this for it to become muscle memory. Just your mind making that split second decision to squeeze that trigger. The rest becomes reflex


I used to be a Liberal a long time ago, and a part of me cringes when I read your reply. The part of me that rejects stereotyping a whole nationality or race disagrees with how the military trains it's soldiers in this way: All Germans, Russians, and Japs are heartless monsters!

I've never killed anyone, but I know that I would have no hesitation to if it was best. I'm not a bleeding heart; I know someone deserving of being killed when I see one. You are right that it must be reflexive. Most people don't realize that. They think they'll have time before the shot. Your enemy has none of the normal civilized inhibitions that are built-into us, making us hesitate, making us evaluate whether it's justified before shooting. I don't know how I'll overcome that, but it's been on my radar for a long time

Thank you for bringing this up.


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## TGus

Chance Favors said:


> @Coastie dad you are so much more eloquent with your words than I am. I'm trying to be good, I really am, but I'm normally the guy that uses F-bombs like a comma and 5.56 62gr green tips as exclamation points.


Please don't restrain yourself on my account. Vegetables are tasteless without a little salt and pepper.


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## TGus

Coastie dad said:


> Well, instead of trying to ingratiate yourself to us by expounding on your theories as if you were talking to undergrads eager to hang on your every word, how about just simply talking to us instead of at us? Some of us may be interested in your Appalachian adventures and how you forage and shelter. Bear in mind, you won't be the only one with skills and experience, so we can sniff bull dung purty quick around here. Maybe it's your high falutin' Bostonian tone that you need to smooth some edges off of.
> I'm trying to extend a bit of an olive branch here, even though I'm sure I'm not speaking for several of the members when I do so. I just have this cursed problem of trying to make peace before we go scorched earth policy.


You are aware that there are many newbies that visit this site, perhaps even more than you old-timers? I'm walking a line between trying to teach to *them*, and trying to *learn *from you. It may take a little while to get it right. You should not be offended when I discuss things advanced preppers already know. Forgive me for saying this, but I've observed that some old-timers here act as if this forum is their own private game reserve, and that every post is talking to them. This is one of the most popular prepper forums in the country. Consider those people's needs.


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## ND_ponyexpress_

TGus said:


> You are aware that there are many newbies that visit this site, perhaps even more than you old-timers? I'm walking a line between trying to teach to *them*, and trying to *learn *from you. It may take a little while to get it right. You should not be offended when I discuss things advanced preppers already know. Forgive me for saying this, but I've observed that some old-timers here act as if this forum is their own private game reserve, and that every post is talking to them. This is one of the most popular prepper forums in the country. Consider those people's needs.


what can you teach them that they can't learn in the search function??? have you lived anywhere other than suburban boston that would give you the experience to be able to "teach" the newbies that live anywhere other than your AO? you are like the DC swamp passing legislation that they think is best for everyone... and have no actual clue what happens outside of DC. I don't pretend to have any clue how to survive post SHTF in the AZ desert... and I sure as hell don't expect anyone in NY to fathom living in a place where I can step out the door and fire off an AR (no license required) mag in all directions not hit anything and have nobody bat an eye.. you plan to survive in a hidden hole in the hills nobody has set foot in in 50 years... you do realize the moment you light a fire to get warm/cook/process water, your smoke will give you away to everyone within a few miles through smell alone... how many people live within 10 miles of your hideout?.. because I know all 20 that live within 10 of here, your problem of survival isn't what you think you know so much of to teach those that you think don't.. 90% of your problem is where you live..


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## rice paddy daddy

TGus said:


> I would always seek to kill dispassionately, because anger and hate degrade judgement. It may not be possible, but I would try.


Have you ever shot anyone?
Have you ever killed anyone?

Let me tell ya, hate and anger figure into the equation big time.

And even if you have been trained to US Army or US Marine standards, the first time you suddenly have someone trying to kill YOU, it is a shock. This is where all the training comes in - you don't think you just react.
No training? "He who hesitates is lost". 
Or, as they say in Da Hood, you be daid, dude. :vs_lol:


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## Denton

TGus said:


> Please don't restrain yourself on my account. Vegetables are tasteless without a little salt and pepper.


Uh, you might want to reconsider giving out that advice. F-bombs are not allowed, here. :vs_cool:
I don't like having to moderate, so let's not do it.


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## Coastie dad

Denton said:


> Uh, you might want to reconsider giving out that advice. F-bombs are not allowed, here. :vs_cool:
> I don't like having to moderate, so let's not do it.


Which is why, out of respect for @Denton's age and standing amongst the forum members, I choose to use my eloquence rather than my charm.


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## Gator Monroe

Bodies don't stink ( At optics distance)


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## Chance Favors

TGus said:


> I used to be a Liberal a long time ago, and a part of me cringes when I read your reply. The part of me that rejects stereotyping a whole nationality or race disagrees with how the military trains it's soldiers in this way: All Germans, Russians, and Japs are heartless monsters!
> 
> I've never killed anyone, but I know that I would have no hesitation to if it was best. I'm not a bleeding heart; I know someone deserving of being killed when I see one. You are right that it must be reflexive. Most people don't realize that. They think they'll have time before the shot. Your enemy has none of the normal civilized inhibitions that are built-into us, making us hesitate, making us evaluate whether it's justified before shooting. I don't know how I'll overcome that, but it's been on my radar for a long time
> 
> Thank you for bringing this up.


You don't know a damn thing and this is really not a topic you want to bring up in the company that you're in. You are worse than someone who is ignorant, you are ignorant and think you know what's best for everyone. Nobody cares about your Master's Degrees because they hold no merit in what we're doing.



TGus said:


> Please don't restrain yourself on my account. Vegetables are tasteless without a little salt and pepper.


You really, really don't want that.



TGus said:


> You are aware that there are many newbies that visit this site, perhaps even more than you old-timers? I'm walking a line between trying to teach to *them*, and trying to *learn *from you. It may take a little while to get it right. You should not be offended when I discuss things advanced preppers already know. Forgive me for saying this, but I've observed that some old-timers here act as if this forum is their own private game reserve, and that every post is talking to them. This is one of the most popular prepper forums in the country. Consider those people's needs.


You are not needed nor qualified to teach anyone here anything. If the newbies have a question, they deserve an answer with some rooted reasoning behind it, not some philosophical lecture on how you feel. @Coastie dad is absolutely right, there are plenty of us who would love to hear about your camping trips, but instead you end up lecturing to the point that nobody wants to even see your name. You are a joke right now to this site. It will take a lot to change that too. The first step though is to realize that nobody cares about your theories on gangs. If the rhetoric is not based in experience, it's a moot point.


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## TGus

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> what can you teach them that they can't learn in the search function??? have you lived anywhere other than suburban boston that would give you the experience to be able to "teach" the newbies that live anywhere other than your AO? you are like the DC swamp passing legislation that they think is best for everyone... and have no actual clue what happens outside of DC. I don't pretend to have any clue how to survive post SHTF in the AZ desert... and I sure as hell don't expect anyone in NY to fathom living in a place where I can step out the door and fire off an AR (no license required) mag in all directions not hit anything and have nobody bat an eye.. you plan to survive in a hidden hole in the hills nobody has set foot in in 50 years... you do realize the moment you light a fire to get warm/cook/process water, your smoke will give you away to everyone within a few miles through smell alone... how many people live within 10 miles of your hideout?.. because I know all 20 that live within 10 of here, your problem of survival isn't what you think you know so much of to teach those that you think don't.. 90% of your problem is where you live..


That's a lot to respond to!

I've used the search function since it was availabe. Many times I don't have a high opinion of what I find. You understand this. I go to the places I respect. -and what if someone's search function takes them here? Does this forum have anything important to contribute? -Or would you prefer that they move on and get their information from all the sites I don't respect?

I prep for myself and my family, but I try to learn what is good for everyone, no matter where they live. To date, I've found 6 good bug-out locations, between Cape Cod to New Hampshire. If I need to bug out, I'll choose at that time where I'll go. I'm lucky enough to have 2 within easy walking distance if we can't take a car or bicycle.

I understand the problems I may encounter in each location; no location is perfect. I'll deal with it in the best way nearly 20 years of prepping have taught me. That's the best I can do.

You think I should move to a more rural area. Probably you'll disagree with me, but I think where I am is a damn good location come SHTF. (I don't believe that about all big city suburbs.) I won't go into the reasons why, because there are too many to post here. Someday, I may create a thread about the advantages of living in the suburbs, given certain conditions, then you may see what I mean.


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## Gator Monroe

Oy Vey , Militia is en vogue again ...


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## ND_ponyexpress_

TGus said:


> That's a lot to respond to!
> 
> I've used the search function since it was availabe. Many times I don't have a high opinion of what I find. You understand this. I go to the places I respect. -and what if someone's search function takes them here? Does this forum have anything important to contribute? -*Or would you prefer that they move on and get their information from all the sites I don't respect*?
> .


what makes you think they care what sites you respect? you have painted the "gang problem" and most of us here with a broad brush based on theory... ignoring and even countering several with actual experience..

I don't think you should move anywhere... I think you should simply look at the number of people living around you and realize that 1/2-1/4 may be bugging out to the same areas you plan to.. 
do the math... you warn of roving gangs making the preps/defenses of the majority of us here as obsolete.. yet you don't practice what you preach and fail to realize that maybe many of those you talk down to here may not even have anything resembling a gang within a 5 day walk...


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## Old SF Guy

I was going to weigh into this with some well thought out retorts, opinions, and experience based comment...but after page 8, I had to just quit thinking about it all....sorry Cat...To tired to play today.


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## TGus

ND_ponyexpress_ said:


> what makes you think they care what sites you respect? you have painted the "gang problem" and most of us here with a broad brush based on theory... ignoring and even countering several with actual experience..
> 
> I don't think you should move anywhere... I think you should simply look at the number of people living around you and realize that 1/2-1/4 may be bugging out to the same areas you plan to..
> do the math... you warn of roving gangs making the preps/defenses of the majority of us here as obsolete.. yet you don't practice what you preach and fail to realize that maybe many of those you talk down to here may not even have anything resembling a gang within a 5 day walk...


Fair enough.

Would you want them going to sites _you _don't respect, -or do you respect all of them? This is one of the best places for them, with people that have deep experience with all aspects of prepping. Am I one of those experts? No, but I bet that after 18+ years of prepping, I know something.

Of course it's based on theory, even though it comes from my experiences with gang members. We're talking about a possible SHTF scenario which hasn't happened here yet, -although it _has _happened in plenty of other places around the world. As to experience, how many of you have ever had a long conversation with a gang member? How many of you have ever experienced a home invasion, in the same way many undeveloped countries have?

I'm surrounded by Liberals. They're more likely to bug out to the Mayor's office than to the woods. Like I said, when the time comes, I'll make my decision, and I'll do my best when I get there. It may be one of the 2 places I like in the Appalachians, it may have to be close by. I'm 63; give me some credit for judgement.

*Many *of you have isolated homes, not MOST.

I may not agree with everything you or others say, but I _do _appreciate you taking the time and effort to work with me.


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## charito

Coastie dad said:


> You are a thinker. We are doers. Therein lies the differences in perspectives.


We are thinkers, too. It's on thinking that plans are developed. 
And some doers act upon the plans that they've thought through.



TGus said:


> I don't watch TV, though I _do _live horror shows and flicks.


 However, Tgus' thinking of scenarios are based on what he sees in movies - a lot of them are not realistic.

The most telling is how he thinks people in a SHTF scenario would be nowhere different with people under normal conditions. He sees the hoods lording it. That people will be afraid to snitch. Snitch to whom? Cops?

Would there be law and order in a SHTF? :vs_blush:

Maybe we're not on the same page on what we mean when we say SHTF?

And, he's watching a lot of gangsta movies, I think. :tango_face_grin:


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## Redneck

TGus said:


> You are aware that there are many newbies that visit this site, perhaps even more than you old-timers? I'm walking a line between trying to teach to *them*, and trying to *learn *from you.


You know, I've tried to stay away from this discussion but it won't go away... plus of course the second one which seems no different. @TGus you seem to care about prepping, I'll give you that. But IMO, your statement above illustrates your problem.

We don't have self labeled teachers here. What gives you the right to think you can teach anyone here, much less on your theories. If you want to discuss theory that is fine... but don't think so highly of yourself or your opinion to classify yourself as a teacher to preppers. You might want to stay in the classroom.

What we have here are real world folks passing on their real life experiences & plans. Take me for example. I'm a hard core prepper who strives for self sufficiency or at a minimum, prepare to become self sufficient during a SHTF crisis. I like to pass on my experiences with projects that I currently work on. These are real life projects... things I'm invested in. Not theory. Even though I have many years experience with say gardening, I'd never consider myself an expert... much less a teacher here. Even when I step out & discuss say that I think small groups are the best way to survive & not to be alone, I'm not having a theoretical discussion... I'm explaining what I've already done & why I'm doing it. By no means am I teaching anyone how to prepare to handle a crisis as I'm not qualified to be a teacher. But just as with say my discussion on growing a three sisters garden, I'm passing on my beliefs and what I think works.

I suggest you cool your jets & check your ego at the door. Stop the teaching and just contribute. Post about your real life experiences where we can get to know you better & maybe pick up a pointer or two. We might likewise give you some pointers. That is how it works here. Then you become a *MEMBER* ... not our *TEACHER*.


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## yooper_sjd

TGus said:


> I have 2 Masters degrees: Clinical Psychology and Artificial Intelligence.
> 
> In jobs, I often use them together. For example, at the Dept, of Fire Services, I developed an interface/program/database that allowed everyone involved in a HAZMAT effort to know what everyone else was doing at the time, what their current orders were, and what they needed, etc. It requires some A.I. to filter what any person most needed to see, and an understanding of how responders have to operate under stress.
> 
> I'd like pointers on military marksmanship if you want to create a thread about that. I'm sure a lot of other people on this forum could contribute something important, (even I could contribute something about how to compensate for hand tremors).


shooting tips and or correcting a shooting discrepancy can not be done by written post or Utube clip. It comes from personal practice with a experienced instructor/line coach. A fine example would be on your practice shooting or qual shooting at the range for CCL! You had someone correcting your stance, grip, method, ect. I myself even for being a SAMI for 18 of my 20 yrs in the service could shoot expert with pistol (rattly old 1911 at that) at 25 yrds. But only when I was shooting quickly. When I take time to aim a shot, take a breath, release alittle breath, hold, sight picture, sight alignment, sqeeze of shot. I always messed up. Reason where I stress the muscle reflex training. I retired in 2000, and before that time Specwar guys in the Navy would spend just a week practicing drawing a pistol, empty of course and getting into a stance. A week of this 8 hrs a day for 7 days...... muscle memory/reflex action to where it becomes part of a natural movement without even thinking about it.......

Yoop


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## yooper_sjd

TGus said:


> That's why I'm here.
> 
> The extent of my hands-on knowledge is hunting with a bow, trapping, shooting at a range, prepping skills, and living in the Appalachians for a week at a time without food or a tent every year.


Why have you not stated so in the introduction section of your skill sets. Now trapping is that using primative traps??? or modern materials/traps? To me that there is a big difference to term and meaning of trapping. I suck at setting primitive trip mechs. I trapped as kid in northern michigan growing up with steel jawed traps, I can track, and put up sets. I can do a primitive fall trap, but that is about the extent. Share some of knowledge.


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## Gator Monroe

I have a 67 VW Trike (And a 66 BSA Victor GP Special) both of which should account for Honorary Masters degrees after keeping them running


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## yooper_sjd

Gator Monroe said:


> I have a 67 VW Trike (And a 66 BSA Victor GP Special) both of which should account for Honorary Masters degrees after keeping them running


:vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol: more like Honorary Doctorate I get the Masters for keeping my 91 ford f150 still street legal and running (with twine and bailing wire, and of course ductape)


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## Steve40th

TGus said:


> I used to be a Liberal a long time ago, and a part of me cringes when I read your reply. The part of me that rejects stereotyping a whole nationality or race disagrees with how the military trains it's soldiers in this way: All Germans, Russians, and Japs are heartless monsters!
> 
> I've never killed anyone, but I know that I would have no hesitation to if it was best. I'm not a bleeding heart; I know someone deserving of being killed when I see one. You are right that it must be reflexive. Most people don't realize that. They think they'll have time before the shot. Your enemy has none of the normal civilized inhibitions that are built-into us, making us hesitate, making us evaluate whether it's justified before shooting. I don't know how I'll overcome that, but it's been on my radar for a long time
> 
> Thank you for bringing this up.


I would recommend reading this book by David Grossman, On Killing. It is about how killing has been a training/psychological issue since the civil war. Killing is not easy, but our Soldiers have been trained since the civil war to present in different ways. Our soldiers, not Asian, Russian, Muslim.. They are different people with different mindsets..


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## Prepared One

24 pages. What's the record?


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## Medic33

so you have 2 masters degrees -whoopee -D- do ----I have a masters and a PHD -no I think your fishing -the person who pointed out that your working on a thesis is likely right. 
here is something for you.


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## TGus

******* said:


> You know, I've tried to stay away from this discussion but it won't go away... plus of course the second one which seems no different. @TGus you seem to care about prepping, I'll give you that. But IMO, your statement above illustrates your problem.
> 
> We don't have self labeled teachers here. What gives you the right to think you can teach anyone here, much less on your theories. If you want to discuss theory that is fine... but don't think so highly of yourself or your opinion to classify yourself as a teacher to preppers. You might want to stay in the classroom.
> 
> What we have here are real world folks passing on their real life experiences & plans. Take me for example. I'm a hard core prepper who strives for self sufficiency or at a minimum, prepare to become self sufficient during a SHTF crisis. I like to pass on my experiences with projects that I currently work on. These are real life projects... things I'm invested in. Not theory. Even though I have many years experience with say gardening, I'd never consider myself an expert... much less a teacher here. Even when I step out & discuss say that I think small groups are the best way to survive & not to be alone, I'm not having a theoretical discussion... I'm explaining what I've already done & why I'm doing it. By no means am I teaching anyone how to prepare to handle a crisis as I'm not qualified to be a teacher. But just as with say my discussion on growing a three sisters garden, I'm passing on my beliefs and what I think works.
> 
> I suggest you cool your jets & check your ego at the door. Stop the teaching and just contribute. Post about your real life experiences where we can get to know you better & maybe pick up a pointer or two. We might likewise give you some pointers. That is how it works here. Then you become a *MEMBER* ... not our *TEACHER*.


Thank you. That was well thought-out and well-stated. I'll take it as good advice.


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## TGus

yooper_sjd said:


> Why have you not stated so in the introduction section of your skill sets. Now trapping is that using primative traps??? or modern materials/traps? To me that there is a big difference to term and meaning of trapping. I suck at setting primitive trip mechs. I trapped as kid in northern michigan growing up with steel jawed traps, I can track, and put up sets. I can do a primitive fall trap, but that is about the extent. Share some of knowledge.


Don't blame yourself for sucking at primitive traps; it's more the fault of the trap than you. In my experience, hand-made traps are very hit-and-miss. I've tried my hand at them, enough to know how to construct them, but the conibear 330s, and 440s I use are much more reliable at not only trapping something but also keeping it until you get back.


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## TGus

Medic33 said:


> so you have 2 masters degrees -whoopee -D- do ----I have a masters and a PHD -no I think your fishing -the person who pointed out that your working on a thesis is likely right.
> here is something for you.


At 63, I don't think I'm working on a thesis, -more likely my Will and Testament.

I would not have revealed my degrees unless I had been directly asked.


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## Slippy

Prepared One said:


> 24 pages. What's the record?


My good friend @Prepared One

I'm so glad you axed! The "What was your Prep of The Day" thread is a shitload long. (shitload being a technical term for you newbies) HA!

Always glad to help!

Slippy! :vs_wave:

http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-prepper-survival-talk/264-what-your-prep-day-778.html


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## TGus

Prepared One said:


> 24 pages. What's the record?


Does that mean I'm very entertaining?


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## TGus

Steve40th said:


> I would recommend reading this book by David Grossman, On Killing. It is about how killing has been a training/psychological issue since the civil war. Killing is not easy, but our Soldiers have been trained since the civil war to present in different ways. Our soldiers, not Asian, Russian, Muslim.. They are different people with different mindsets..


Thanks. I'll get it. Anything that helps...


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## TGus

yooper_sjd said:


> :vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol: more like Honorary Doctorate I get the Masters for keeping my 91 ford f150 still street legal and running (with twine and bailing wire, and of course ductape)


Good practice for SHTF.


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## bigwheel

HochwaldJager said:


> View attachment 54938


Gotta swipe that one. Sorry .


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## bigwheel

rice paddy daddy said:


> Have you ever shot anyone?
> Have you ever killed anyone?
> 
> Let me tell ya, hate and anger figure into the equation big time.
> 
> And even if you have been trained to US Army or US Marine standards, the first time you suddenly have someone trying to kill YOU, it is a shock. This is where all the training comes in - you don't think you just react.
> No training? "He who hesitates is lost".
> Or, as they say in Da Hood, you be daid, dude. :vs_lol:


Agree one hundred percent. Response to danger as in a bad guy with a deadly weapon is an automatic response..or muscle memory..which comes from training. Works that way for cops too. No hate or anger involved. A bunch of fright maybe. As has been said about po po work..its 99% boredom and 1% stark raving terror. lol


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## Prepared One

Slippy said:


> My good friend @Prepared One
> 
> I'm so glad you axed! The "What was your Prep of The Day" thread is a shitload long. (shitload being a technical term for you newbies) HA!
> 
> Always glad to help!
> 
> Slippy! :vs_wave:
> 
> http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/general-prepper-survival-talk/264-what-your-prep-day-778.html


I figured that thread old buddy, I was thinking more along the lines of the longest dumbass threads where the guy pissed everyone off. Will2? Will1 Perhaps?


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## hawgrider




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## Gator Monroe

Post SHTF Armed Militias is a better Thread tree (Just Sayin ...


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## charito

Gator Monroe said:


> Post SHTF Armed Militias is a better Thread tree (Just Sayin ...


Link please....


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## Gator Monroe

charito said:


> Link please....


That would be an act of a post Whore (War)


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## charito

Gator Monroe said:


> That would be an act of a post Whore (War)


Oh, I thought it's an old topic here....thanks.


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## Gator Monroe

charito said:


> Oh, I thought it's an old topic here....thanks.


Militia is not an odd topic here (and thank G-d defeating FLIR is not either )


----------

